Messages in AquaticLife group.

Page 1 of 1.

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Group: AquaticLife	Message: 40628	From: sandi turner	Date: 6/1/2009
Subject: Re: Now about DIY easy tank stands (was: Angels and floating plants)
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 40629	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 6/1/2009
Subject: Re: Now about DIY easy tank stands (was: Angels and floating plants)
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 40630	From: amsterbaum	Date: 6/1/2009
Subject: tank disinfection
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 40631	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 6/1/2009
Subject: Re: tank disinfection
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 40632	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 6/1/2009
Subject: Re: tank disinfection
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 40633	From: sandi turner	Date: 6/1/2009
Subject: Re: Now about DIY easy tank stands (was: Angels and floating plants)
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 40634	From: bill1433	Date: 6/1/2009
Subject: Re: Now about DIY easy tank stands (was: Angels and floating plants)
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 40635	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 6/1/2009
Subject: Re: Now about DIY easy tank stands (was: Angels and floating plants)
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 40636	From: jett07002	Date: 6/1/2009
Subject: Re: Acclimating new fish
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 40637	From: sandi turner	Date: 6/1/2009
Subject: Re: Now about DIY easy tank stands (was: Angels and floating plants)
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 40638	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 6/1/2009
Subject: Re: Now about DIY easy tank stands (was: Angels and floating plants)
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 40639	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 6/1/2009
Subject: Darter Fish
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 40640	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 6/1/2009
Subject: "Looking for Mr. Goodfish"
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 40641	From: pam andress	Date: 6/1/2009
Subject: Re: Darter Fish
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 40642	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 6/1/2009
Subject: Re: Darter Fish
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 40643	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 6/1/2009
Subject: Re: Darter Fish
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 40644	From: Steve Biondi	Date: 6/1/2009
Subject: Modifying Eclipse tanks
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 40645	From: Donna Ransome	Date: 6/1/2009
Subject: Re: Now about DIY easy tank stands (was: Angels and floating plants)
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 40646	From: Donna Ransome	Date: 6/1/2009
Subject: Re: Acclimating new fish
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 40647	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 6/1/2009
Subject: Re: Modifying Eclipse tanks
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 40648	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 6/1/2009
Subject: Re: Darter Fish
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 40649	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 6/1/2009
Subject: Re: Modifying Eclipse tanks
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 40650	From: Steve Biondi	Date: 6/1/2009
Subject: Re: Modifying Eclipse tanks
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 40651	From: dani_in_nd	Date: 6/1/2009
Subject: Hallo all!
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 40652	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 6/1/2009
Subject: Re: Hallo all!
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 40653	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 6/2/2009
Subject: Re: Modifying Eclipse tanks
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 40654	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 6/2/2009
Subject: Re: Hallo all!
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 40655	From: amsterbaum	Date: 6/2/2009
Subject: Re: tank disinfection
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 40656	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 6/2/2009
Subject: Hey Mike Deneerz...
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 40657	From: greychildren	Date: 6/2/2009
Subject: New pics added
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 40658	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 6/2/2009
Subject: Re: tank disinfection
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 40659	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 6/2/2009
Subject: Re: tank disinfection
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 40660	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 6/2/2009
Subject: Re: New pics added
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 40661	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 6/2/2009
Subject: Re: tank disinfection
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 40662	From: biG poppa	Date: 6/3/2009
Subject: Re: New pics added
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 40663	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 6/3/2009
Subject: Baby Platy survived!
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 40664	From: ironsidem	Date: 6/3/2009
Subject: sick orange betta
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 40665	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 6/3/2009
Subject: Re: sick orange betta
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 40666	From: pkr772	Date: 6/3/2009
Subject: Tank cleaning a planted aquarium
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 40667	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 6/3/2009
Subject: Re: Baby Platy survived!
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 40668	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 6/3/2009
Subject: Re: Baby Platy survived!
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 40669	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 6/3/2009
Subject: Re: Tank cleaning a planted aquarium
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 40670	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 6/3/2009
Subject: Re: Tank cleaning a planted aquarium
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 40671	From: Raymond Wetzel	Date: 6/4/2009
Subject: Re: Tank cleaning a planted aquarium
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 40672	From: jett07002	Date: 6/4/2009
Subject: Re: Tank cleaning a planted aquarium
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 40673	From: bruce cohen	Date: 6/4/2009
Subject: flatworms
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 40674	From: bruce cohen	Date: 6/5/2009
Subject: flatworms in a nano cube
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 40675	From: Rodrigues Gilbert	Date: 6/5/2009
Subject: Hornwort
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 40676	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 6/5/2009
Subject: Re: flatworms in a nano cube
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 40677	From: biG poppa	Date: 6/5/2009
Subject: Re: flatworms in a nano cube
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 40678	From: bruce cohen	Date: 6/6/2009
Subject: Re: flatworms in a nano cube
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 40679	From: Courtland Jacob	Date: 6/6/2009
Subject: python
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 40680	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 6/6/2009
Subject: Re: python
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 40681	From: Courtland Jacob	Date: 6/6/2009
Subject: Re: python
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 40682	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 6/6/2009
Subject: Re: python
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 40683	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 6/6/2009
Subject: Re: python
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 40684	From: Courtland Jacob	Date: 6/6/2009
Subject: Re: python
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 40685	From: Courtland Jacob	Date: 6/6/2009
Subject: Re: python
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 40686	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 6/6/2009
Subject: Re: python
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 40687	From: turbocoupe76	Date: 6/7/2009
Subject: Hello everyone, long time no see
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 40688	From: turbocoupe76	Date: 6/7/2009
Subject: Re: python
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 40689	From: turbocoupe76	Date: 6/7/2009
Subject: Re: python
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 40690	From: turbocoupe76	Date: 6/7/2009
Subject: Re: python
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 40691	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 6/7/2009
Subject: Re: Hello everyone, long time no see
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 40692	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 6/7/2009
Subject: Re: python
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 40693	From: turbocoupe76	Date: 6/7/2009
Subject: Re: Hello everyone, long time no see
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 40694	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 6/7/2009
Subject: Re: Hello everyone, long time no see
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 40695	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 6/7/2009
Subject: Re: python
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 40696	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 6/7/2009
Subject: Re: python
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 40697	From: bill1433	Date: 6/7/2009
Subject: Re: python
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 40698	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 6/7/2009
Subject: Re: python
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 40699	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 6/7/2009
Subject: Re: python
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 40700	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 6/7/2009
Subject: Re: python
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 40701	From: bill1433	Date: 6/7/2009
Subject: Re: python
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 40702	From: bill1433	Date: 6/7/2009
Subject: Re: python
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 40703	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 6/7/2009
Subject: Re: python
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 40704	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 6/7/2009
Subject: Re: python
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 40705	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 6/7/2009
Subject: Re: python
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 40706	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 6/7/2009
Subject: Re: python
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 40707	From: bill1433	Date: 6/7/2009
Subject: Re: python
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 40708	From: turbocoupe76	Date: 6/7/2009
Subject: Re: Hello everyone, long time no see
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 40709	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 6/7/2009
Subject: Re: Hello everyone, long time no see
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 40710	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 6/7/2009
Subject: Re: python
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 40711	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 6/7/2009
Subject: Re: python
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 40712	From: bill1433	Date: 6/7/2009
Subject: Re: python
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 40713	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 6/7/2009
Subject: Re: python
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 40714	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 6/7/2009
Subject: Re: python
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 40715	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 6/7/2009
Subject: Re: python
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 40716	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 6/7/2009
Subject: Re: python
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 40717	From: kragsdale411	Date: 6/7/2009
Subject: HELP! I think I have White Spot
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 40718	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 6/7/2009
Subject: Re: HELP! I think I have White Spot
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 40719	From: turbocoupe76	Date: 6/7/2009
Subject: Re: Hello everyone, long time no see
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 40720	From: turbocoupe76	Date: 6/7/2009
Subject: Re: Hello everyone, long time no see
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 40721	From: kathy ragsdale	Date: 6/7/2009
Subject: Re: HELP! I think I have White Spot
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 40722	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 6/7/2009
Subject: Re: HELP! I think I have White Spot
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 40723	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 6/7/2009
Subject: Re: Hello everyone, long time no see
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 40724	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 6/7/2009
Subject: Re: HELP! I think I have White Spot
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 40725	From: Dora Smith	Date: 6/7/2009
Subject: Re: HELP! I think I have White Spot
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 40726	From: kathy ragsdale	Date: 6/7/2009
Subject: Re: HELP! I think I have White Spot
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 40727	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 6/7/2009
Subject: Re: Dora's Betta Questions (was: HELP! I think I have White Spot)
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 40728	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 6/7/2009
Subject: Re: HELP! I think I have White Spot
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 40729	From: kathy ragsdale	Date: 6/8/2009
Subject: Re: HELP! I think I have White Spot
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 40730	From: sandi turner	Date: 6/8/2009
Subject: Re: python
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 40731	From: Raymond Wetzel	Date: 6/8/2009
Subject: Re: HELP! I think I have White Spot
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 40732	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 6/8/2009
Subject: Re: HELP! I think I have White Spot
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 40733	From: toddswoman496861@aim.com	Date: 6/8/2009
Subject: Re: HELP! I think I have White Spot
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 40734	From: kim	Date: 6/8/2009
Subject: wierd
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 40735	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 6/8/2009
Subject: Re: python
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 40736	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 6/8/2009
Subject: Re: wierd
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 40737	From: janis_chrystal	Date: 6/8/2009
Subject: ick
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 40738	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 6/8/2009
Subject: Re: ich
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 40739	From: jan1213@aol.com	Date: 6/8/2009
Subject: Re: ich
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 40740	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 6/8/2009
Subject: Re: HELP! I think I have White Spot
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 40741	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 6/8/2009
Subject: Re: ich
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 40742	From: jan1213@aol.com	Date: 6/8/2009
Subject: Re: ich
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 40743	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 6/8/2009
Subject: Re: ich
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 40744	From: kim carmean	Date: 6/8/2009
Subject: Re: wierd
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 40745	From: kathy ragsdale	Date: 6/8/2009
Subject: Re: ich
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 40746	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 6/8/2009
Subject: Re: ick
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 40747	From: turbocoupe76	Date: 6/8/2009
Subject: Re: Hello everyone, long time no see
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 40748	From: turbocoupe76	Date: 6/8/2009
Subject: Anyone know of this fish?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 40749	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 6/8/2009
Subject: Re: wierd
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 40750	From: jan1213@aol.com	Date: 6/8/2009
Subject: Re: ick
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 40751	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 6/8/2009
Subject: Re: Hello everyone, long time no see
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 40752	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 6/8/2009
Subject: Re: ich
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 40753	From: kim carmean	Date: 6/8/2009
Subject: Re: wierd
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 40754	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 6/8/2009
Subject: Re: ick
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 40755	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 6/8/2009
Subject: Re: ick
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 40756	From: jan1213@aol.com	Date: 6/9/2009
Subject: Re: ick
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 40757	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 6/9/2009
Subject: Re: ick
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 40758	From: turbocoupe76	Date: 6/9/2009
Subject: Re: Hello everyone, long time no see
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 40759	From: pkr772	Date: 6/9/2009
Subject: Breeding Bettas
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 40760	From: Courtland Jacob	Date: 6/9/2009
Subject: Re: python
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 40761	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 6/9/2009
Subject: Re: Hello everyone, long time no see
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 40762	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 6/9/2009
Subject: Re: python
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 40763	From: turbocoupe76	Date: 6/9/2009
Subject: Mystery fish
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 40764	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 6/9/2009
Subject: Re: Mystery fish
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 40765	From: kim	Date: 6/9/2009
Subject: photo in what album theres 240
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 40766	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 6/9/2009
Subject: Re: photo in what album theres 240
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 40767	From: toddswoman496861@aim.com	Date: 6/9/2009
Subject: have learned alot from all of you
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 40768	From: turbocoupe76	Date: 6/9/2009
Subject: Re: Mystery fish
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 40769	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 6/9/2009
Subject: One algae after the next...
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 40770	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 6/9/2009
Subject: Is this normal?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 40771	From: pam andress	Date: 6/9/2009
Subject: Re: Mystery fish
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 40772	From: kim carmean	Date: 6/9/2009
Subject: Re: Mystery fish
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 40773	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 6/9/2009
Subject: Re: photo in what album theres 240
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 40774	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 6/9/2009
Subject: Re: Mystery fish
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 40775	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 6/9/2009
Subject: Re: photo in what album theres 240
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 40776	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 6/9/2009
Subject: Golden nesaea
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 40777	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 6/9/2009
Subject: flourish excel
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 40778	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 6/9/2009
Subject: Re: Golden nesaea
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 40779	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 6/9/2009
Subject: Re: One algae after the next...
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 40780	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 6/9/2009
Subject: Re: Is this normal?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 40781	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 6/9/2009
Subject: Re: flourish excel
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 40782	From: ironsidem	Date: 6/9/2009
Subject: sick orange betta is still sick
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 40783	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 6/9/2009
Subject: Re: One algae after the next...
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 40784	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 6/9/2009
Subject: Re: Is this normal?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 40785	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 6/9/2009
Subject: Re: flourish excel
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 40786	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 6/9/2009
Subject: Re: One algae after the next...
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 40787	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 6/9/2009
Subject: Re: One algae after the next...
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 40788	From: Courtland Jacob	Date: 6/9/2009
Subject: baby cichlids
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 40789	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 6/9/2009
Subject: Re: sick orange betta is still sick
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 40790	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 6/9/2009
Subject: Re: One algae after the next...
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 40791	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 6/9/2009
Subject: Re: One algae after the next...
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 40792	From: Dora Smith	Date: 6/9/2009
Subject: Re: sick orange betta is still sick
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 40793	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 6/9/2009
Subject: Re: sick orange betta is still sick
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 40794	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 6/9/2009
Subject: Re: sick orange betta is still sick
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 40795	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 6/9/2009
Subject: Re: sick orange betta is still sick
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 40796	From: Donna Ransome	Date: 6/10/2009
Subject: Re: One algae after the next...
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 40797	From: Donna Ransome	Date: 6/10/2009
Subject: Re: One algae after the next...
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 40798	From: Dora Smith	Date: 6/10/2009
Subject: Re: sick orange betta is still sick
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 40799	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 6/10/2009
Subject: Re: One algae after the next...
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 40800	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 6/10/2009
Subject: Re: One algae after the next...
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 40801	From: Harl Myers	Date: 6/10/2009
Subject: Re: Baby Platy survived!
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 40802	From: Kevin Henggeler	Date: 6/10/2009
Subject: protien skimmers
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 40803	From: ironsidem	Date: 6/10/2009
Subject: Re: sick orange betta is still sick
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 40804	From: SaraRamirezRocks@aol.com	Date: 6/10/2009
Subject: Re: flourish excel
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 40805	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 6/10/2009
Subject: Re: flourish excel
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 40806	From: Debra	Date: 6/10/2009
Subject: Re: sick orange betta is still sick
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 40807	From: SaraRamirezRocks@aol.com	Date: 6/10/2009
Subject: Re: flourish excel
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 40808	From: gardengoddesses2	Date: 6/10/2009
Subject: Introduction: Hi my name is Tawny, I am new to the group
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 40809	From: greychildren	Date: 6/10/2009
Subject: hi group need some advice on a 48' light fixture
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 40810	From: Donna Ransome	Date: 6/10/2009
Subject: Re: One algae after the next...
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 40811	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 6/10/2009
Subject: Re: hi group need some advice on a 48' light fixture
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 40812	From: biG poppa	Date: 6/10/2009
Subject: Re: hi group need some advice on a 48' light fixture
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 40813	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 6/10/2009
Subject: Re: Introduction: Hi my name is Tawny, I am new to the group
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 40814	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 6/10/2009
Subject: Re: hi group need some advice on a 48' light fixture
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 40815	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 6/10/2009
Subject: Re: Introduction: Hi my name is Tawny, I am new to the group
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 40816	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 6/10/2009
Subject: Re: hi group need some advice on a 48' light fixture
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 40817	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 6/10/2009
Subject: Re: Introduction: Hi my name is Tawny, I am new to the group
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 40818	From: Dora Smith	Date: 6/11/2009
Subject: Re: Dora's Betta Questions (was: HELP! I think I have White Spot)
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 40819	From: Dora Smith	Date: 6/11/2009
Subject: Re: sick orange betta is still sick
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 40820	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 6/11/2009
Subject: Re: Dora's Betta Questions (was: HELP! I think I have White Spot)
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 40821	From: Tawny Morrow	Date: 6/11/2009
Subject: Re: Introduction: Hi my name is Tawny, I am new to the group
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 40822	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 6/11/2009
Subject: Re: One algae after the next...
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 40823	From: Jimmy McHaney	Date: 6/11/2009
Subject: Re: Introduction: Hi my name is Tawny, I am new to the group
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 40824	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 6/11/2009
Subject: Re: Introduction: Hi my name is Tawny, I am new to the group
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 40825	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 6/11/2009
Subject: Re: Introduction: Hi my name is Tawny, I am new to the group
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 40826	From: Jimmy McHaney	Date: 6/11/2009
Subject: Re: Introduction: Hi my name is Tawny, I am new to the group
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 40827	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 6/11/2009
Subject: Phosphate test kit and other API test kits
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 40828	From: Tawny Morrow	Date: 6/11/2009
Subject: Re: Introduction: Hi my name is Tawny, I am new to the group
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 40829	From: gardengoddesses2	Date: 6/11/2009
Subject: Winter in Louisiana
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 40830	From: kathy ragsdale	Date: 6/11/2009
Subject: Re: Phosphate test kit and other API test kits
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 40831	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 6/11/2009
Subject: Re: Phosphate test kit and other API test kits
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 40832	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 6/11/2009
Subject: Re: Winter in Louisiana
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 40833	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 6/11/2009
Subject: Re: Phosphate test kit and other API test kits
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 40834	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 6/11/2009
Subject: Re: Phosphate test kit and other API test kits
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 40835	From: Tawny Morrow	Date: 6/11/2009
Subject: Re: Winter in Louisiana
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 40836	From: Tawny Morrow	Date: 6/11/2009
Subject: Re: Introduction: Hi my name is Tawny, I am new to the group
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 40837	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 6/11/2009
Subject: Re: Phosphate test kit and other API test kits
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 40838	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 6/11/2009
Subject: Re: Phosphate test kit and other API test kits
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 40839	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 6/11/2009
Subject: Re: Winter in Louisiana
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 40840	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 6/11/2009
Subject: Re: Winter in Louisiana
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 40841	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 6/11/2009
Subject: Re: Phosphate test kit and other API test kits
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 40842	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 6/11/2009
Subject: Re: Phosphate test kit and other API test kits
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 40843	From: Tawny Morrow	Date: 6/11/2009
Subject: Re: Winter in Louisiana
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 40844	From: mosquitokr2002	Date: 6/12/2009
Subject: Re: Mystery fish
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 40845	From: hank voss	Date: 6/12/2009
Subject: Re: Winter in Louisiana
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 40846	From: Tawny Morrow	Date: 6/12/2009
Subject: Re: Winter in Louisiana
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 40847	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 6/12/2009
Subject: Re: Phosphate test kit and other API test kits
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 40848	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 6/12/2009
Subject: Re: Phosphate test kit and other API test kits
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 40849	From: Jimmy McHaney	Date: 6/12/2009
Subject: Re: Winter in Louisiana
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 40850	From: Jimmy McHaney	Date: 6/12/2009
Subject: Re: Phosphate test kit and other API test kits
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 40851	From: Jimmy McHaney	Date: 6/12/2009
Subject: Re: Winter in Louisiana
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 40852	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 6/12/2009
Subject: Re: Phosphate test kit and other API test kits
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 40853	From: Tawny Morrow	Date: 6/12/2009
Subject: Re: Winter in Louisiana
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 40854	From: bill 1433	Date: 6/12/2009
Subject: Re: Phosphate test kit and other API test kits
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 40855	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 6/12/2009
Subject: Re: Phosphate test kit and other API test kits
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 40856	From: bruce cohen	Date: 6/12/2009
Subject: Re: Phosphate test kit and other API test kits
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 40857	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 6/12/2009
Subject: Re: Phosphate test kit and other API test kits
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 40858	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 6/12/2009
Subject: Re: Phosphate test kit and other API test kits
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 40859	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 6/12/2009
Subject: Re: Phosphate test kit and other API test kits
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 40860	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 6/12/2009
Subject: Re: Phosphate test kit and other API test kits
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 40861	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 6/12/2009
Subject: The Toy Fish, 3rd Edition
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 40862	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 6/13/2009
Subject: Re: Phosphate test kit and other API test kits
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 40863	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 6/13/2009
Subject: Re: Phosphate test kit and other API test kits
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 40864	From: bill 1433	Date: 6/13/2009
Subject: Re: Phosphate test kit and other API test kits
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 40865	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 6/13/2009
Subject: Re: Phosphate test kit and other API test kits
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 40866	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 6/13/2009
Subject: Abstracts for the Joint Meeting of Ichthyologists and Herpetologists
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 40867	From: toddswoman496861@aim.com	Date: 6/14/2009
Subject: about aquarium stands
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 40868	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 6/14/2009
Subject: Re: about aquarium stands
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 40869	From: toddswoman496861@aim.com	Date: 6/14/2009
Subject: Re: about aquarium stands
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 40870	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 6/14/2009
Subject: Re: about aquarium stands
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 40871	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 6/14/2009
Subject: Re: One algae after the next...
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 40872	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 6/14/2009
Subject: Re: about aquarium stands
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 40873	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 6/14/2009
Subject: Re: about aquarium stands
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 40874	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 6/14/2009
Subject: Re: about aquarium stands
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 40875	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 6/14/2009
Subject: Re: One algae after the next...
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 40876	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 6/14/2009
Subject: Re: One algae after the next...
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 40877	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 6/14/2009
Subject: Re: about aquarium stands
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 40878	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 6/14/2009
Subject: Re: One algae after the next...
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 40879	From: toddswoman496861@aim.com	Date: 6/14/2009
Subject: Re: about aquarium stands
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 40880	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 6/14/2009
Subject: Re: about aquarium stands
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 40881	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 6/14/2009
Subject: Re: about aquarium stands
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 40882	From: toddswoman496861@aim.com	Date: 6/14/2009
Subject: Re: about aquarium stands
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 40883	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 6/14/2009
Subject: Re: One algae after the next...
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 40884	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 6/14/2009
Subject: Re: about aquarium stands
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 40885	From: Raymond Wetzel	Date: 6/14/2009
Subject: Re: about aquarium stands
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 40886	From: toddswoman496861@aim.com	Date: 6/14/2009
Subject: Re: about aquarium stands
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 40887	From: toddswoman496861@aim.com	Date: 6/14/2009
Subject: Re: about aquarium stands
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 40888	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 6/14/2009
Subject: Re: about aquarium stands
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 40889	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 6/14/2009
Subject: Re: about aquarium stands
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 40890	From: bill 1433	Date: 6/14/2009
Subject: Re: about aquarium stands
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 40891	From: bill 1433	Date: 6/14/2009
Subject: Re: about aquarium stands
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 40892	From: toddswoman496861@aim.com	Date: 6/14/2009
Subject: Re: about aquarium stands
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 40893	From: toddswoman496861@aim.com	Date: 6/14/2009
Subject: Re: about aquarium stands
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 40894	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 6/14/2009
Subject: Red tailed catfish
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 40895	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 6/14/2009
Subject: Re: Red tailed catfish
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 40896	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 6/14/2009
Subject: Re: Red tailed catfish
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 40897	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 6/14/2009
Subject: Re: Red tailed catfish
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 40898	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 6/14/2009
Subject: Re: Red tailed catfish
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 40899	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 6/14/2009
Subject: Re: Red tailed catfish
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 40900	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 6/14/2009
Subject: Re: Red tailed catfish
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 40902	From: Rodrigues Gilbert	Date: 6/15/2009
Subject: (no subject)
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 40903	From: toddswoman496861@aim.com	Date: 6/15/2009
Subject: Re: (unknown)
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 40904	From: PJ Barina	Date: 6/15/2009
Subject: Take the stand to a Welding Shop (mom and pop preferably)
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 40905	From: toddswoman496861@aim.com	Date: 6/15/2009
Subject: Re: Take the stand to a Welding Shop (mom and pop preferably)
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 40906	From: gail	Date: 6/15/2009
Subject: Why do Algae blooms only occur in my 55 Gallon?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 40907	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 6/15/2009
Subject: Re: Why do Algae blooms only occur in my 55 Gallon?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 40908	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 6/15/2009
Subject: Mystery Snails
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 40909	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 6/15/2009
Subject: Re: Why do Algae blooms only occur in my 55 Gallon?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 40910	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 6/15/2009
Subject: Re: Mystery Snails
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 40911	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 6/15/2009
Subject: Re: Mystery Snails
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 40912	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 6/15/2009
Subject: Re: Mystery Snails
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 40913	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 6/15/2009
Subject: Re: Mystery Snails
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 40914	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 6/15/2009
Subject: Re: Mystery Snails
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 40915	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 6/15/2009
Subject: Re: Mystery Snails
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 40916	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 6/16/2009
Subject: Re: Mystery Snails
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 40917	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 6/16/2009
Subject: Re: Mystery Snails
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 40918	From: Gail	Date: 6/16/2009
Subject: Re: Why do Algae blooms only occur in my 55 Gallon?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 40919	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 6/16/2009
Subject: Re: Why do Algae blooms only occur in my 55 Gallon?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 40920	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 6/16/2009
Subject: Re: Mystery Snails
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 40921	From: steve pellowe	Date: 6/16/2009
Subject: Re: Why do Algae blooms only occur in my 55 Gallon?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 40922	From: Courtland Jacob	Date: 6/16/2009
Subject: travelling
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 40923	From: greychildren	Date: 6/16/2009
Subject: new 55g set up project..pic's
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 40924	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 6/16/2009
Subject: Re: travelling
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 40925	From: pam andress	Date: 6/16/2009
Subject: Re: new 55g set up project..pic's
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 40926	From: bill 1433	Date: 6/16/2009
Subject: Re: travelling
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 40927	From: biG poppa	Date: 6/16/2009
Subject: Re: new 55g set up project..pic's
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 40928	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 6/16/2009
Subject: Re: Red tailed catfish
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 40929	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 6/16/2009
Subject: Re: new 55g set up project..pic's
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 40930	From: biG poppa	Date: 6/16/2009
Subject: Re: new 55g set up project..pic's
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 40931	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 6/16/2009
Subject: Re: travelling
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 40932	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 6/16/2009
Subject: Re: new 55g set up project..pic's
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 40933	From: biG poppa	Date: 6/16/2009
Subject: Re: new 55g set up project..pic's
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 40934	From: biG poppa	Date: 6/16/2009
Subject: Re: new 55g set up project..pic's
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 40935	From: Debra	Date: 6/16/2009
Subject: ? sick orange betta is still sick
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 40936	From: Steve Biondi	Date: 6/16/2009
Subject: JBJ Reaction 4-Stage Canister Filter + UV EFU-45 Thoughts
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 40937	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 6/16/2009
Subject: Re: new 55g set up project..pic's
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 40938	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 6/16/2009
Subject: Re: Red tailed catfish
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 40939	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 6/16/2009
Subject: Re: Red tailed catfish
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 40940	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 6/16/2009
Subject: Re: new 55g set up project..pic's
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 40941	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 6/16/2009
Subject: Re: JBJ Reaction 4-Stage Canister Filter + UV EFU-45 Thoughts
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 40942	From: Courtland Jacob	Date: 6/16/2009
Subject: Re: travelling
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 40943	From: Courtland Jacob	Date: 6/16/2009
Subject: Re: travelling
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 40944	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 6/16/2009
Subject: Re: travelling
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 40945	From: Courtland Jacob	Date: 6/16/2009
Subject: Re: travelling
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 40946	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 6/16/2009
Subject: Re: travelling
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 40947	From: Courtland Jacob	Date: 6/16/2009
Subject: Re: travelling
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 40948	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 6/16/2009
Subject: Re: JBJ Reaction 4-Stage Canister Filter + UV EFU-45 Thoughts
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 40949	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 6/16/2009
Subject: Re: travelling
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 40950	From: dumasjohnj@netscape.net	Date: 6/17/2009
Subject: travelling
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 40951	From: Raymond Wetzel	Date: 6/17/2009
Subject: travelling
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 40952	From: Raymond Wetzel	Date: 6/17/2009
Subject: Re: JBJ Reaction 4-Stage Canister Filter + UV EFU-45 Thoughts
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 40953	From: Raymond Wetzel	Date: 6/17/2009
Subject: Re: new 55g set up project..pic's
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 40954	From: Raymond Wetzel	Date: 6/17/2009
Subject: Re: travelling
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 40955	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 6/17/2009
Subject: Found on the Web: Live Rock Stolen and More Aquariums
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 40956	From: Gail	Date: 6/17/2009
Subject: Re: Why do Algae blooms only occur in my 55 Gallon?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 40957	From: nicurns@bellsouth.net	Date: 6/17/2009
Subject: Sexing AngelFish?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 40958	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 6/17/2009
Subject: Re: Why do Algae blooms only occur in my 55 Gallon?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 40959	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 6/17/2009
Subject: Re: Sexing AngelFish?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 40960	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 6/17/2009
Subject: Re: Why do Algae blooms only occur in my 55 Gallon?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 40961	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 6/18/2009
Subject: Re: Why do Algae blooms only occur in my 55 Gallon?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 40962	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 6/18/2009
Subject: Re: Why do Algae blooms only occur in my 55 Gallon?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 40963	From: ironsidem	Date: 6/18/2009
Subject: sick orange betta, getting better?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 40964	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 6/18/2009
Subject: Re: sick orange betta, getting better?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 40965	From: ladyjadewindrunner	Date: 6/18/2009
Subject: Hello!!
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 40966	From: Raymond Wetzel	Date: 6/18/2009
Subject: Re: Sexing AngelFish?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 40967	From: pam andress	Date: 6/18/2009
Subject: Re: Hello!!
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 40968	From: jan1213@aol.com	Date: 6/18/2009
Subject: starting up a tank
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 40969	From: bill 1433	Date: 6/18/2009
Subject: Re: starting up a tank
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 40970	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 6/18/2009
Subject: Re: Why do Algae blooms only occur in my 55 Gallon?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 40971	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 6/18/2009
Subject: Re: starting up a tank
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 40972	From: Diana Brooks	Date: 6/18/2009
Subject: Re: Found on the Web: Live Rock Stolen and More Aquariums
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 40973	From: ironsidem	Date: 6/18/2009
Subject: Re: sick orange betta, getting better?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 40974	From: Gail	Date: 6/18/2009
Subject: Re: Why do Algae blooms only occur in my 55 Gallon?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 40975	From: nicurns@bellsouth.net	Date: 6/18/2009
Subject: Re: Sexing AngelFish?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 40976	From: nicurns@bellsouth.net	Date: 6/18/2009
Subject: Re: Hello!!
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 40977	From: nicurns@bellsouth.net	Date: 6/18/2009
Subject: Re: Why do Algae blooms only occur in my 55 Gallon?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 40978	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 6/18/2009
Subject: Re: starting up a tank
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 40979	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 6/18/2009
Subject: Re: starting up a tank
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 40980	From: Gail	Date: 6/18/2009
Subject: Re: Why do Algae blooms only occur in my 55 Gallon?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 40981	From: Raymond Wetzel	Date: 6/18/2009
Subject: Re: Why do Algae blooms only occur in my 55 Gallon?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 40982	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 6/18/2009
Subject: Re: Sexing AngelFish?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 40983	From: Robert Mazur	Date: 6/18/2009
Subject: Gonna sound like a dumb question.
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 40984	From: Gail	Date: 6/18/2009
Subject: Re: Why do Algae blooms only occur in my 55 Gallon?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 40985	From: sgriscom_2	Date: 6/18/2009
Subject: New member!
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 40986	From: bill 1433	Date: 6/18/2009
Subject: Re: Sexing AngelFish?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 40987	From: warrenprint@yahoo.com	Date: 6/18/2009
Subject: Re: Sexing AngelFish?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 40988	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 6/18/2009
Subject: Re: Sexing AngelFish?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 40989	From: sgriscom_2	Date: 6/18/2009
Subject: Re: Hello!!
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 40990	From: nysportsfan45	Date: 6/18/2009
Subject: Hello....New to group and have a question
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 40991	From: Jim Pat.	Date: 6/18/2009
Subject: Re: Sexing AngelFish?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 40992	From: Raymond Wetzel	Date: 6/18/2009
Subject: Re: Sexing AngelFish?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 40993	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 6/18/2009
Subject: Re: Hello....New to group and have a question
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 40994	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 6/18/2009
Subject: Re: Sexing AngelFish?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 40995	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 6/18/2009
Subject: Re: Why do Algae blooms only occur in my 55 Gallon?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 40996	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 6/18/2009
Subject: Re: Gonna sound like a dumb question.
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 40997	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 6/18/2009
Subject: Re: Gonna sound like a dumb question.
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 40998	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 6/18/2009
Subject: Re: New member!
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 40999	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 6/18/2009
Subject: Re: Sexing AngelFish?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 41000	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 6/18/2009
Subject: Re: Gonna sound like a dumb question.
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 41001	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 6/18/2009
Subject: Re: Hello....New to group and have a question
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 41002	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 6/18/2009
Subject: Re: Sexing AngelFish?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 41003	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 6/18/2009
Subject: Sea dragon baby surprise
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 41004	From: Raymond Wetzel	Date: 6/18/2009
Subject: Re: Sexing AngelFish?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 41005	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 6/18/2009
Subject: Ugh, now I no longer have any rams left :(
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 41006	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 6/18/2009
Subject: Re: Sexing AngelFish?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 41007	From: nicurns@bellsouth.net	Date: 6/18/2009
Subject: Re: Sexing AngelFish?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 41008	From: nicurns@bellsouth.net	Date: 6/18/2009
Subject: Re: Sexing AngelFish?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 41009	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 6/18/2009
Subject: Re: Sexing AngelFish?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 41010	From: nicurns@bellsouth.net	Date: 6/18/2009
Subject: Re: Sea dragon baby surprise
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 41011	From: ladyjadewindrunner	Date: 6/18/2009
Subject: Re: Hello!!
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 41012	From: Raymond Wetzel	Date: 6/18/2009
Subject: Re: Sexing AngelFish?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 41013	From: sgriscom_2	Date: 6/19/2009
Subject: New fish pond...need advice
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 41014	From: sweetpisces3180	Date: 6/19/2009
Subject: Selling aquarium, besides craigslist where can I advertise?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 41015	From: Raymond Wetzel	Date: 6/19/2009
Subject: Re: Distinguishing Characteristics in Sexing Angelfish
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 41016	From: Raymond Wetzel	Date: 6/19/2009
Subject: Re: Selling aquarium, besides craigslist where can I advertise?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 41017	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 6/19/2009
Subject: Re: Selling aquarium, besides craigslist where can I advertise?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 41018	From: sandi turner	Date: 6/19/2009
Subject: Re: Selling aquarium, besides craigslist where can I advertise?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 41019	From: bill 1433	Date: 6/19/2009
Subject: Re: Sexing AngelFish?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 41020	From: bill 1433	Date: 6/19/2009
Subject: Re: Sexing AngelFish?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 41021	From: Raymond Wetzel	Date: 6/19/2009
Subject: Re: New fish pond...need advice
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 41022	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 6/19/2009
Subject: Re: Sexing AngelFish?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 41023	From: Raymond Wetzel	Date: 6/19/2009
Subject: Re: Sexing AngelFish?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 41024	From: Raymond Wetzel	Date: 6/19/2009
Subject: Re: Sexing AngelFish?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 41025	From: Raymond Wetzel	Date: 6/19/2009
Subject: Re: Sexing AngelFish?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 41026	From: Robert Mazur	Date: 6/19/2009
Subject: Re: Gonna sound like a dumb question.
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 41027	From: nicurns@bellsouth.net	Date: 6/19/2009
Subject: Re: New fish pond...need advice
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 41028	From: nicurns@bellsouth.net	Date: 6/19/2009
Subject: Re: Selling aquarium, besides craigslist where can I advertise?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 41029	From: Jim Pat.	Date: 6/19/2009
Subject: Re: Ugh, now I no longer have any rams left :(
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 41030	From: nicurns@bellsouth.net	Date: 6/19/2009
Subject: Re: Sexing AngelFish?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 41031	From: Chris Owens-Polski	Date: 6/19/2009
Subject: Re: New fish pond...need advice
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 41032	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 6/19/2009
Subject: Re: Ugh, now I no longer have any rams left :(
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 41033	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 6/19/2009
Subject: Re: Sexing AngelFish? (now a possible Coup D'etat!)
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 41034	From: bill 1433	Date: 6/19/2009
Subject: Re: Sexing AngelFish?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 41035	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 6/19/2009
Subject: Re: Gonna sound like a dumb question.
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 41036	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 6/19/2009
Subject: Re: Ugh, now I no longer have any rams left :(
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 41037	From: Jpateson@aol.com	Date: 6/19/2009
Subject: Re: Ugh, now I no longer have any rams left :(
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 41038	From: Jpateson@aol.com	Date: 6/19/2009
Subject: Re: Ugh, now I no longer have any rams left :(
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 41039	From: Robert Mazur	Date: 6/19/2009
Subject: Re: Gonna sound like a dumb question.
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 41040	From: sweetpisces3180	Date: 6/19/2009
Subject: Re: Selling aquarium, besides craigslist where can I advertise?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 41041	From: pam andress	Date: 6/19/2009
Subject: Re: Hello!!
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 41042	From: Raymond Wetzel	Date: 6/19/2009
Subject: Re: Sexing AngelFish? (now a possible Coup D'etat!)
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 41043	From: bill 1433	Date: 6/19/2009
Subject: Re: Sexing AngelFish? (now a possible Coup D'etat!)
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 41044	From: sgriscom_2	Date: 6/19/2009
Subject: Re: New fish pond...need advice
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 41045	From: sgriscom_2	Date: 6/19/2009
Subject: Re: New fish pond...need advice
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 41046	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 6/19/2009
Subject: Re: Ugh, now I no longer have any rams left :(
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 41047	From: biG poppa	Date: 6/19/2009
Subject: Re: Ugh, now I no longer have any rams left :(
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 41048	From: Donna Ransome	Date: 6/19/2009
Subject: Re: Ray Fan Club
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 41049	From: aaron102272	Date: 6/19/2009
Subject: Off Topic? ~ Great Sale! @ www.CustomAquatic.com
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 41050	From: bill 1433	Date: 6/19/2009
Subject: Re: Ugh, now I no longer have any rams left :(
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 41051	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 6/19/2009
Subject: Re: Ugh, now I no longer have any rams left :(
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 41052	From: Raymond Wetzel	Date: 6/19/2009
Subject: Re: Ray Fan Club
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 41053	From: biG poppa	Date: 6/19/2009
Subject: Re: Ugh, now I no longer have any rams left :(
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 41054	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 6/19/2009
Subject: Re: Ugh, now I no longer have any rams left :(
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 41055	From: biG poppa	Date: 6/19/2009
Subject: Re: Ugh, now I no longer have any rams left :(
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 41056	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 6/19/2009
Subject: Re: Ugh, now I no longer have any rams left :(
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 41057	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 6/19/2009
Subject: Re: Ugh, now I no longer have any rams left :(
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 41058	From: biG poppa	Date: 6/19/2009
Subject: Re: Ugh, now I no longer have any rams left :(
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 41059	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 6/19/2009
Subject: Re: New fish pond...need advice
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 41060	From: Jpateson@aol.com	Date: 6/19/2009
Subject: Re: Ugh, now I no longer have any rams left :(
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 41061	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 6/19/2009
Subject: Re: Sexing AngelFish?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 41062	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 6/19/2009
Subject: Re: Ugh, now I no longer have any rams left :(
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 41063	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 6/19/2009
Subject: Re: Sexing AngelFish? (now a possible Coup D'etat!)
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 41064	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 6/19/2009
Subject: Re: Sexing AngelFish?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 41065	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 6/19/2009
Subject: Re: Selling aquarium, besides craigslist where can I advertise?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 41066	From: Jpateson@aol.com	Date: 6/19/2009
Subject: Re: Sexing AngelFish? (now a possible Coup D'etat!)
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 41067	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 6/19/2009
Subject: Re: New fish pond...need advice
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 41068	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 6/19/2009
Subject: Re: Ray Fan Club
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 41069	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 6/19/2009
Subject: Re: Off Topic? ~ Great Sale! @ www.CustomAquatic.com
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 41070	From: Jpateson@aol.com	Date: 6/19/2009
Subject: Re: Sexing AngelFish? (now a possible Coup D'etat!)
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 41071	From: Jpateson@aol.com	Date: 6/19/2009
Subject: Re: Ugh, now I no longer have any rams left :(
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 41072	From: Rodrigues Gilbert	Date: 6/19/2009
Subject: Re: Sexing AngelFish? (now a possible Coup D'etat!)
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 41073	From: replenissh37	Date: 6/19/2009
Subject: IN response to Algae verses plants
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 41074	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 6/20/2009
Subject: Re: Sexing AngelFish? (now a possible Coup D'etat!)
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 41075	From: ladyjadewindrunner	Date: 6/20/2009
Subject: Re: Hello!!
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 41076	From: ladyjadewindrunner	Date: 6/20/2009
Subject: Re: IN response to Algae verses plants
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 41077	From: Donna Ransome	Date: 6/20/2009
Subject: Re: IN response to Algae verses plants
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 41078	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 6/20/2009
Subject: Re: Gonna sound like a dumb question.
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 41079	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 6/20/2009
Subject: Re: Gonna sound like a dumb question.
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 41080	From: bill 1433	Date: 6/20/2009
Subject: Re: Sexing AngelFish? (now a possible Coup D'etat!)
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 41081	From: bill 1433	Date: 6/20/2009
Subject: Re: Ray Fan Club
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 41082	From: jan1213@aol.com	Date: 6/20/2009
Subject: Dr. Tims
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 41083	From: Raymond Wetzel	Date: 6/20/2009
Subject: Re: IN response to Algae verses plants
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 41084	From: Raymond Wetzel	Date: 6/20/2009
Subject: Re: Dr. Tims
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 41085	From: jan1213@aol.com	Date: 6/20/2009
Subject: Re: Dr. Tims
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 41086	From: Raymond Wetzel	Date: 6/20/2009
Subject: Re: Dr. Tims
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 41087	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 6/20/2009
Subject: Re: New fish pond...need advice
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 41088	From: jan1213@aol.com	Date: 6/20/2009
Subject: Re: Dr. Tims
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 41089	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 6/20/2009
Subject: Re: Ray Fan Club
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 41090	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 6/20/2009
Subject: Re: Ray Fan Club
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 41091	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 6/20/2009
Subject: Re: Gonna sound like a dumb question.
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 41092	From: bill 1433	Date: 6/20/2009
Subject: Re: Ray Fan Club
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 41093	From: biG poppa	Date: 6/20/2009
Subject: Re: Sexing AngelFish? (now a possible Coup D'etat!)
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 41094	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 6/20/2009
Subject: Re: Dr. Tims
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 41095	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 6/20/2009
Subject: Re: Dr. Tims
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 41096	From: jan1213@aol.com	Date: 6/20/2009
Subject: Re: Dr. Tims
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 41097	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 6/20/2009
Subject: Re: Ray Fan Club
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 41098	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 6/20/2009
Subject: OT: Blindness Cure May Lie in Aquarium
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 41099	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 6/20/2009
Subject: Re: Ray Fan Club
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 41100	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 6/20/2009
Subject: Re: Dr. Tims
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 41101	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 6/20/2009
Subject: Pond plants for use in a fish tank, questions.
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 41102	From: jan1213@aol.com	Date: 6/20/2009
Subject: Re: Dr. Tims
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 41103	From: Robert Mazur	Date: 6/20/2009
Subject: Re: Gonna sound like a dumb question.
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 41104	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 6/20/2009
Subject: Re: Dr. Tims
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 41105	From: bill 1433	Date: 6/20/2009
Subject: Re: Ray Fan Club
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 41106	From: biG poppa	Date: 6/20/2009
Subject: Re: Dr. Tims
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 41107	From: Raymond Wetzel	Date: 6/20/2009
Subject: Re: Dr. Tims
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 41108	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 6/20/2009
Subject: Re: Dr. Tims
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 41109	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 6/20/2009
Subject: Nuphar Stellata
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 41110	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 6/20/2009
Subject: Re: Dr. Tims
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 41111	From: biG poppa	Date: 6/20/2009
Subject: Re: Dr. Tims
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 41112	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 6/20/2009
Subject: Re: Dr. Tims
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 41113	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 6/20/2009
Subject: Re: Pond plants for use in a fish tank, questions.
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 41114	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 6/20/2009
Subject: Re: Pond plants for use in a fish tank, questions.
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 41115	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 6/20/2009
Subject: Re: Nuphar Stellata
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 41116	From: bill 1433	Date: 6/20/2009
Subject: Re: Dr. Tims
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 41117	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 6/20/2009
Subject: Re: Pond plants for use in a fish tank, questions.
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 41118	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 6/20/2009
Subject: Re: Nuphar Stellata
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 41119	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 6/20/2009
Subject: Re: Pond plants for use in a fish tank, questions.
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 41120	From: Raymond Wetzel	Date: 6/20/2009
Subject: Re: Pond plants for use in a fish tank, questions.
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 41121	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 6/20/2009
Subject: Re: Nuphar Stellata
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 41122	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 6/20/2009
Subject: Re: Nuphar Stellata
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 41123	From: Raymond Wetzel	Date: 6/20/2009
Subject: Re: Dr. Tims
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 41124	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 6/20/2009
Subject: Re: Dr. Tims
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 41125	From: Raymond Wetzel	Date: 6/20/2009
Subject: Re: Nuphar Stellata
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 41126	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 6/20/2009
Subject: Re: Ray Fan Club
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 41127	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 6/20/2009
Subject: Re: Dr. Tims
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 41128	From: biG poppa	Date: 6/20/2009
Subject: Re: Ray Fan Club
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 41129	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 6/20/2009
Subject: Re: OT: Blindness Cure May Lie in Aquarium
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 41130	From: Raymond Wetzel	Date: 6/20/2009
Subject: Re: Dr. Tims
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 41131	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 6/20/2009
Subject: Re: Pond plants for use in a fish tank, questions.
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 41132	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 6/20/2009
Subject: Re: Nuphar Stellata
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 41133	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 6/20/2009
Subject: Re: Ray Fan Club
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 41134	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 6/20/2009
Subject: Re: OT: Blindness Cure May Lie in Aquarium
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 41135	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 6/20/2009
Subject: Re: Dr. Tims
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 41136	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 6/20/2009
Subject: Re: Ray Fan Club
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 41137	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 6/20/2009
Subject: Re: Dr. Tims (now SeaChem Flourish)
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 41138	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 6/20/2009
Subject: Re: Pond plants for use in a fish tank, questions.
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 41139	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 6/20/2009
Subject: Re: Dr. Tims
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 41140	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 6/20/2009
Subject: Re: Dr. Tims
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 41141	From: bill 1433	Date: 6/20/2009
Subject: Re: Ray Fan Club
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 41142	From: Raymond Wetzel	Date: 6/20/2009
Subject: Re: Nuphar Stellata
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 41143	From: Raymond Wetzel	Date: 6/20/2009
Subject: Re: Dr. Tims
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 41144	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 6/20/2009
Subject: Re: OT: Blindness Cure May Lie in Aquarium
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 41145	From: biG poppa	Date: 6/20/2009
Subject: Re: OT: Blindness Cure May Lie in Aquarium
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 41146	From: pam andress	Date: 6/20/2009
Subject: Re: OT: Blindness Cure May Lie in Aquarium
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 41147	From: Donna Ransome	Date: 6/20/2009
Subject: Re: OT: Blindness Cure May Lie in Aquarium
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 41148	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 6/20/2009
Subject: Re: OT: Blindness Cure May Lie in Aquarium
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 41149	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 6/20/2009
Subject: Re: OT: Blindness Cure May Lie in Aquarium
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 41150	From: Jasmine	Date: 6/20/2009
Subject: Pelco verse Bristlenose
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 41151	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 6/20/2009
Subject: Re: Dr. Tims
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 41152	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 6/20/2009
Subject: Re: Dr. Tims
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 41153	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 6/20/2009
Subject: Re: Ray Fan Club
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 41154	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 6/20/2009
Subject: Re: Pelco verse Bristlenose
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 41155	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 6/20/2009
Subject: Re: OT: Blindness Cure May Lie in Aquarium
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 41156	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 6/20/2009
Subject: Re: Nuphar Stellata
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 41157	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 6/20/2009
Subject: Re: Ray Fan Club
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 41158	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 6/20/2009
Subject: Re: Ray Fan Club
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 41159	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 6/20/2009
Subject: Re: Ray Fan Club
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 41160	From: Jasmine	Date: 6/20/2009
Subject: Re: Pelco verse Bristlenose
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 41161	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 6/20/2009
Subject: Re: Ray Fan Club
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 41162	From: Jasmine	Date: 6/21/2009
Subject: Bristlenose catfish - Photos uploaded
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 41163	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 6/21/2009
Subject: Re: Pelco verse Bristlenose
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 41164	From: Jasmine	Date: 6/21/2009
Subject: Re: Pelco verse Bristlenose
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 41165	From: Raymond Wetzel	Date: 6/21/2009
Subject: Re: O/T Outlook Configuration, \\Steve//, was: Dr. Tims
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 41166	From: Raymond Wetzel	Date: 6/21/2009
Subject: Re: Dr. Tims
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 41167	From: Raymond Wetzel	Date: 6/21/2009
Subject: Re: O/T Flying Cars, was: Ray Fan Club
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 41168	From: Raymond Wetzel	Date: 6/21/2009
Subject: Re: Ray Fan Club
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 41169	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 6/21/2009
Subject: Re: O/T Flying Cars, was: Ray Fan Club
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 41170	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 6/21/2009
Subject: Re: O/T Outlook Configuration, \\Steve//, was: Dr. Tims
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 41171	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 6/21/2009
Subject: Re: Dr. Tims
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 41172	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 6/21/2009
Subject: Re: Ray Fan Club
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 41173	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 6/21/2009
Subject: Re: O/T Outlook Configuration, \\Steve//, was: Dr. Tims
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 41174	From: Raymond Wetzel	Date: 6/21/2009
Subject: Re: O/T Outlook Configuration, \\Steve//, was: Dr. Tims
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 41175	From: Raymond Wetzel	Date: 6/21/2009
Subject: Re: O/T -- Emails: was, Dr. Tims
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 41176	From: bill 1433	Date: 6/21/2009
Subject: Re: Ray Fan Club
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 41177	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 6/21/2009
Subject: Re: Happy Father's Day - Redneck Style (was: Re: Ray Fan Club)
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 41178	From: Raymond Wetzel	Date: 6/21/2009
Subject: Re: O/T Outlook Configuration, \\Steve//, was: Dr. Tims
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 41179	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 6/21/2009
Subject: Re: Bristlenose catfish - Photos uploaded
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 41180	From: biG poppa	Date: 6/21/2009
Subject: Re: Happy Father's Day - Redneck Style (was: Re: Ray Fan Club)
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 41181	From: Dora Smith	Date: 6/21/2009
Subject: Re: O/T Outlook Configuration, \\Steve//, was: Dr. Tims
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 41182	From: pam andress	Date: 6/21/2009
Subject: Re: Bristlenose catfish - Photos uploaded
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 41183	From: Raymond Wetzel	Date: 6/21/2009
Subject: Re: Pelco verse Bristlenose
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 41184	From: Raymond Wetzel	Date: 6/21/2009
Subject: Re: O/T Outlook Configuration, \\Steve//, was: Dr. Tims
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 41185	From: Suzi	Date: 6/21/2009
Subject: Re: O/T Outlook Configuration, \\Steve//, was: Dr. Tims
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 41186	From: Kurt Johnston	Date: 6/21/2009
Subject: 2009 Aquatics Swap Meet
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 41187	From: Lisa	Date: 6/21/2009
Subject: Comming soon to a tank down under...'Blue Yabby'
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 41188	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 6/21/2009
Subject: Re: Comming soon to a tank down under...'Blue Yabby'
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 41189	From: aaron102272	Date: 6/22/2009
Subject: The Correct Flow Rate For Your System
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 41190	From: Jasmine	Date: 6/22/2009
Subject: Re: Bristlenose catfish - Photos uploaded
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 41191	From: Jasmine	Date: 6/22/2009
Subject: Re: Pelco verse Bristlenose
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 41192	From: Raymond Wetzel	Date: 6/22/2009
Subject: Re: Pelco verse Bristlenose
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 41193	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 6/22/2009
Subject: Re: The Correct Flow Rate For Your System
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 41194	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 6/22/2009
Subject: Now: About Angel fish Re: [AquaticLife] Was: Pelco verse Bristlenos
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 41195	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 6/22/2009
Subject: Re: The Correct Flow Rate For Your System
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 41196	From: Harl Myers	Date: 6/22/2009
Subject: Re: The Correct Flow Rate For Your System
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 41197	From: Gail	Date: 6/22/2009
Subject: Re: Why do Algae blooms only occur in my 55 Gallon?/ update NEW plan
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 41198	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 6/22/2009
Subject: Re: Why do Algae blooms only occur in my 55 Gallon?/ update NEW plan
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 41199	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 6/22/2009
Subject: Re: The Correct Flow Rate For Your System
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 41200	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 6/22/2009
Subject: Re: Why do Algae blooms only occur in my 55 Gallon?/ update NEW plan
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 41201	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 6/22/2009
Subject: Water testing with crushed coral
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 41202	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 6/22/2009
Subject: Re: The Correct Flow Rate For Your System
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 41203	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 6/22/2009
Subject: Betta behavior
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 41204	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 6/22/2009
Subject: Re: The Correct Flow Rate For Your System
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 41205	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 6/22/2009
Subject: Re: Water testing with crushed coral
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 41206	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 6/22/2009
Subject: Re: Water testing with crushed coral
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 41207	From: Raymond Wetzel	Date: 6/22/2009
Subject: Now: About Angel fish Re: [AquaticLife] Was: Pelco verse Bristlenos
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 41208	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 6/22/2009
Subject: Re: The Correct Flow Rate For Your System
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 41209	From: Steve Biondi	Date: 6/22/2009
Subject: Advice
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 41210	From: Raymond Wetzel	Date: 6/22/2009
Subject: Re: Why do Algae blooms only occur in my 55 Gallon?/ update NEW plan
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 41211	From: Raymond Wetzel	Date: 6/22/2009
Subject: Re: Advice
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 41212	From: bill 1433	Date: 6/22/2009
Subject: Re: Water testing with crushed coral
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 41213	From: ladyjadewindrunner	Date: 6/22/2009
Subject: A question about Plecos
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 41214	From: Donna Ransome	Date: 6/22/2009
Subject: Re: A question about Plecos
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 41215	From: Gail	Date: 6/22/2009
Subject: Re: Why do Algae blooms only occur in my 55 Gallon?/ update NEW plan
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 41216	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 6/22/2009
Subject: Re: Now: About Angel fish Re: [AquaticLife] Was: Pelco verse Bristl
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 41217	From: Steve Biondi	Date: 6/22/2009
Subject: Re: Advice
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 41218	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 6/22/2009
Subject: Re: The Correct Flow Rate For Your System
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 41219	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 6/22/2009
Subject: Re: Advice
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 41220	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 6/22/2009
Subject: Re: Water testing with crushed coral
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 41221	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 6/22/2009
Subject: Re: A question about Plecos
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 41222	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 6/22/2009
Subject: Re: The Correct Flow Rate For Your System
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 41223	From: jett07002	Date: 6/22/2009
Subject: ANGELFISH, Once again
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 41224	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 6/22/2009
Subject: Re: Water testing with crushed coral
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 41225	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 6/22/2009
Subject: Re: Water testing with crushed coral
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 41226	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 6/22/2009
Subject: Tap water Baseline testing, first test.
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 41227	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 6/22/2009
Subject: Re: Tap water Baseline testing, first test.
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 41228	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 6/22/2009
Subject: Re: Advice
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 41229	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 6/22/2009
Subject: Re: Tap water Baseline testing, first test.
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 41230	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 6/22/2009
Subject: Re: Advice
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 41231	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 6/22/2009
Subject: Re: Advice
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 41232	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 6/22/2009
Subject: Re: Tap water Baseline testing, first test.
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 41233	From: pam andress	Date: 6/22/2009
Subject: Re: A question about Plecos
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 41234	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 6/22/2009
Subject: Re: Advice
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 41235	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 6/22/2009
Subject: Re: Tap water Baseline testing, first test.
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 41236	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 6/22/2009
Subject: Thoughts on walstad tank setups
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 41237	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 6/22/2009
Subject: Re: Advice
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 41238	From: Deenerz@aol.com	Date: 6/22/2009
Subject: Re: ANGELFISH, Once again
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 41239	From: sa.jackson	Date: 6/22/2009
Subject: Self Adhesive Rope Caulk
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 41240	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 6/22/2009
Subject: Re: Tap water Baseline testing, first test.
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 41241	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 6/22/2009
Subject: Re: Self Adhesive Rope Caulk
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 41242	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 6/22/2009
Subject: Re: Tap water Baseline testing, first test.
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 41243	From: Lisa	Date: 6/22/2009
Subject: New blue yabby
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 41244	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 6/22/2009
Subject: Re: New blue yabby
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 41245	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 6/22/2009
Subject: Re: Thoughts on walstad tank setups
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 41246	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 6/22/2009
Subject: Re: New blue yabby
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 41247	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 6/22/2009
Subject: Re: New blue yabby
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 41248	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 6/22/2009
Subject: Re: New blue yabby
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 41249	From: Lisa	Date: 6/22/2009
Subject: Re: New blue yabby
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 41250	From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com	Date: 6/23/2009
Subject: New poll for AquaticLife
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 41251	From: Dora Smith	Date: 6/23/2009
Subject: How many mosquito larvae do I feed one betta?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 41252	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 6/23/2009
Subject: New poll for AquaticLife - Email, Website and Grouplets
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 41253	From: Jasmine	Date: 6/23/2009
Subject: Re: Pelco verse Bristlenose
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 41254	From: Donna Ransome	Date: 6/23/2009
Subject: Re: Self Adhesive Rope Caulk
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 41255	From: Jasmine	Date: 6/23/2009
Subject: Angels
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 41256	From: Jasmine	Date: 6/23/2009
Subject: Re: ANGELFISH, Once again
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 41257	From: Raymond Wetzel	Date: 6/23/2009
Subject: Re: Sexing Angelfish, was: Pleco verse Bristlenose
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 41258	From: Jasmine	Date: 6/23/2009
Subject: Re: Sexing Angelfish, was: Pleco verse Bristlenose
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 41259	From: Raymond Wetzel	Date: 6/23/2009
Subject: Re: Angels
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 41260	From: Raymond Wetzel	Date: 6/23/2009
Subject: Re: ANGELFISH, Once again
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 41261	From: Raymond Wetzel	Date: 6/23/2009
Subject: Re: Sexing Angelfish, was: Pleco verse Bristlenose
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 41262	From: Raymond Wetzel	Date: 6/23/2009
Subject: Re: Advice
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 41263	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 6/23/2009
Subject: Re: How many mosquito larvae do I feed one betta?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 41264	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 6/23/2009
Subject: Re: ANGELFISH, Once again
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 41265	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 6/23/2009
Subject: Re: Sexing Angelfish, was: Pleco verse Bristlenose
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 41266	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 6/23/2009
Subject: Re: Tap water Baseline testing, first test.
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 41267	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 6/23/2009
Subject: Re: Tap water Baseline testing, first test.
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 41268	From: Beth F Brownell	Date: 6/23/2009
Subject: 55 and 30 gallon tanks for sale question.
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 41269	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 6/23/2009
Subject: Re: Tap water Baseline testing, first test.
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 41270	From: bill 1433	Date: 6/23/2009
Subject: Re: 55 and 30 gallon tanks for sale question.
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 41271	From: toddswoman496861@aim.com	Date: 6/23/2009
Subject: Re: 55 and 30 gallon tanks for sale question.
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 41272	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 6/23/2009
Subject: Re: Tap water Baseline testing, first test.
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 41273	From: sa.jackson	Date: 6/23/2009
Subject: Re: Self Adhesive Rope Caulk
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 41274	From: Gail	Date: 6/23/2009
Subject: Re: Why do Algae blooms only occur in my 55 Gallon?/ update NEW plan
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 41275	From: Raymond Wetzel	Date: 6/23/2009
Subject: Re: Tap water Baseline testing, first test.
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 41276	From: Raymond Wetzel	Date: 6/23/2009
Subject: Re: Why do Algae blooms only occur in my 55 Gallon?/ update NEW plan
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 41277	From: Gail	Date: 6/23/2009
Subject: Re: Why do Algae blooms only occur in my 55 Gallon?/ update NEW plan
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 41278	From: Steve Biondi	Date: 6/23/2009
Subject: Severum fungus?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 41279	From: Beth Brownell	Date: 6/23/2009
Subject: Re: 55 and 30 gallon tanks for sale question.
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 41280	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 6/23/2009
Subject: Re: Tap water Baseline testing, first test.
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 41281	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 6/23/2009
Subject: Re: Tap water Baseline testing, first test.
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 41282	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 6/23/2009
Subject: Re: Tap water Baseline testing, first test.
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 41283	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 6/23/2009
Subject: Re: 55 and 30 gallon tanks for sale question.
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 41284	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 6/23/2009
Subject: Re: How many mosquito larvae do I feed one betta?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 41285	From: Beth Brownell	Date: 6/23/2009
Subject: Re: 55 and 30 gallon tanks for sale question.
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 41286	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 6/23/2009
Subject: Re: 55 and 30 gallon tanks for sale question.
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 41287	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 6/23/2009
Subject: Re: Why do Algae blooms only occur in my 55 Gallon?/ update NEW plan
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 41288	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 6/23/2009
Subject: Re: Severum fungus?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 41289	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 6/23/2009
Subject: Re: Tap water Baseline testing, first test.
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 41290	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 6/23/2009
Subject: Re: Tap water Baseline testing, first test.
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 41291	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 6/23/2009
Subject: Re: 55 and 30 gallon tanks for sale question.
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 41292	From: Deenerz@aol.com	Date: 6/23/2009
Subject: Re: Tap water Baseline testing, first test.
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 41293	From: Gail	Date: 6/23/2009
Subject: Re: 55 and 30 gallon tanks for sale question.
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 41294	From: Gail	Date: 6/23/2009
Subject: Re: 55 and 30 gallon tanks for sale question.
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 41295	From: biG poppa	Date: 6/23/2009
Subject: Re: 55 and 30 gallon tanks for sale question.
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 41296	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 6/23/2009
Subject: Re: Tap water Baseline testing, first test.
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 41297	From: greychildren	Date: 6/23/2009
Subject: my nasty gourami
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 41298	From: grdnfan243@aol.com	Date: 6/23/2009
Subject: Brief question
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 41299	From: pam andress	Date: 6/23/2009
Subject: Re: 55 and 30 gallon tanks for sale question.
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 41300	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 6/23/2009
Subject: Re: Tap water Baseline testing, first test.
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 41301	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 6/23/2009
Subject: Re: 55 and 30 gallon tanks for sale question.
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 41302	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 6/23/2009
Subject: Re: Brief question
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 41303	From: grdnfan243@aol.com	Date: 6/23/2009
Subject: Re: Brief question
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 41304	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 6/23/2009
Subject: Re: Tap water Baseline testing
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 41305	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 6/23/2009
Subject: Re: Brief question
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 41306	From: grdnfan243@aol.com	Date: 6/23/2009
Subject: Re: Brief question
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 41307	From: bill 1433	Date: 6/23/2009
Subject: Re: Tap water Baseline testing
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 41308	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 6/23/2009
Subject: Re: Tap water Baseline testing
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 41309	From: Donna Ransome	Date: 6/23/2009
Subject: Re: 55 and 30 gallon tanks for sale question.
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 41310	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 6/23/2009
Subject: Re: Tap water Baseline testing
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 41311	From: nicurns@bellsouth.net	Date: 6/23/2009
Subject: Re: ANGELFISH, Once again
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 41312	From: anallafamily.2001	Date: 6/23/2009
Subject: Angels Please help???
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 41313	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 6/23/2009
Subject: Re: Angels Please help???
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 41314	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 6/23/2009
Subject: Re: Brief question
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 41315	From: Raymond Wetzel	Date: 6/23/2009
Subject: Re: ANGELFISH, Once again
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 41316	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 6/23/2009
Subject: Re: Angels Please help???
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 41317	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 6/23/2009
Subject: Re: Angels Please help???
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 41318	From: William	Date: 6/23/2009
Subject: Re: Angels Please help???
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 41319	From: Jasmine	Date: 6/23/2009
Subject: Re: Angels
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 41320	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 6/23/2009
Subject: Re: my nasty gourami
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 41321	From: Jasmine	Date: 6/23/2009
Subject: Re: ANGELFISH, Once again
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 41322	From: Steve Biondi	Date: 6/23/2009
Subject: Re: Severum fungus?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 41323	From: Jasmine	Date: 6/23/2009
Subject: Re: Sexing Angelfish, was: Pleco verse Bristlenose
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 41324	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 6/23/2009
Subject: Re: Severum fungus?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 41325	From: Raymond Wetzel	Date: 6/23/2009
Subject: Re: Angels Please help???
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 41326	From: Jasmine	Date: 6/23/2009
Subject: Re: Sexing Angelfish, was: Pleco verse Bristlenose
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 41327	From: Jasmine	Date: 6/23/2009
Subject: Re: Tap water Baseline testing, first test.
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 41328	From: Jasmine	Date: 6/23/2009
Subject: Re: Tap water Baseline testing, first test.
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 41329	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 6/23/2009
Subject: Re: Sexing Angelfish, was: Pleco verse Bristlenose
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 41330	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 6/23/2009
Subject: Re: Sexing Angelfish, was: Pleco verse Bristlenose
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 41331	From: Jasmine	Date: 6/23/2009
Subject: Re: Sexing Angelfish, was: Pleco verse Bristlenose
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 41332	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 6/23/2009
Subject: Re: Tap water Baseline testing, first test.
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 41333	From: Jasmine	Date: 6/24/2009
Subject: Re: Sexing Angelfish, was: Pleco verse Bristlenose
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 41334	From: Jasmine	Date: 6/24/2009
Subject: Re: Tap water Baseline testing, first test.
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 41335	From: Lisa	Date: 6/24/2009
Subject: Is my yabby building a nest?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 41336	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 6/24/2009
Subject: Re: Sexing Angelfish, was: Pleco verse Bristlenose
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 41337	From: Raymond Wetzel	Date: 6/24/2009
Subject: Re: Angels
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 41338	From: Jasmine	Date: 6/24/2009
Subject: Re: Sexing Angelfish, was: Pleco verse Bristlenose
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 41339	From: Jasmine	Date: 6/24/2009
Subject: Re: Sexing Angelfish, was: Pleco verse Bristlenose
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 41340	From: Raymond Wetzel	Date: 6/24/2009
Subject: Re: ANGELFISH, Once again
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 41341	From: bill 1433	Date: 6/24/2009
Subject: Re: Tap water Baseline testing
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 41342	From: Raymond Wetzel	Date: 6/24/2009
Subject: Re: Severum fungus?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 41343	From: bill 1433	Date: 6/24/2009
Subject: Re: Angels
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 41344	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 6/24/2009
Subject: Re: Tap water Baseline testing
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 41345	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 6/24/2009
Subject: Re: Angels
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 41346	From: Raymond Wetzel	Date: 6/24/2009
Subject: Re: Sexing Angelfish, was: Pleco verse Bristlenose
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 41347	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 6/24/2009
Subject: Re: Sexing Angelfish, was: Pleco verse Bristlenose
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 41348	From: bill 1433	Date: 6/24/2009
Subject: Re: Tap water Baseline testing
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 41349	From: Raymond Wetzel	Date: 6/24/2009
Subject: Re: Sexing Angelfish, was: Pleco verse Bristlenose
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 41350	From: anallafamily.2001	Date: 6/24/2009
Subject: Responses to Angels please help.
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 41351	From: Raymond Wetzel	Date: 6/24/2009
Subject: Re: Responses to Angels please help.
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 41352	From: Gail	Date: 6/24/2009
Subject: Re: Brief question
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 41353	From: bill 1433	Date: 6/24/2009
Subject: Re: Responses to Angels please help.
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 41354	From: Gail	Date: 6/24/2009
Subject: Re: my nasty gourami
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 41355	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 6/24/2009
Subject: Re: Is my yabby building a nest?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 41356	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 6/24/2009
Subject: Re: Sexing Angelfish, was: Pleco verse Bristlenose
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 41357	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 6/24/2009
Subject: Re: ANGELFISH, Once again
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 41358	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 6/24/2009
Subject: Re: Sexing Angelfish, was: Pleco verse Bristlenose
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 41359	From: toddswoman496861@aim.com	Date: 6/24/2009
Subject: Re: 55 and 30 gallon tanks for sale question.
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 41360	From: biG poppa	Date: 6/24/2009
Subject: Re: my nasty gourami
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 41361	From: biG poppa	Date: 6/24/2009
Subject: Re: my nasty gourami
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 41362	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 6/24/2009
Subject: Re: my nasty gourami
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 41363	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 6/24/2009
Subject: Re: Tap water Baseline testing
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 41364	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 6/24/2009
Subject: Flourish products
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 41365	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 6/24/2009
Subject: Re: Tap water Baseline testing
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 41366	From: Joellen & Kevin Analla	Date: 6/24/2009
Subject: Re: Angels Please help???
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 41367	From: aaron102272	Date: 6/24/2009
Subject: Re: Flourish products
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 41368	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 6/24/2009
Subject: Re: Responses to Angels please help.
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 41369	From: nicurns@bellsouth.net	Date: 6/24/2009
Subject: Re: Severum fungus?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 41370	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 6/24/2009
Subject: Re: Flourish products
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 41371	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 6/24/2009
Subject: Re: Angels Please help???
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 41372	From: Raymond Wetzel	Date: 6/24/2009
Subject: Re: Angels Please help???
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 41373	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 6/24/2009
Subject: Re: Tap water Baseline testing
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 41374	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 6/24/2009
Subject: Re: Angels Please help???
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 41375	From: goldlenny_blogspot	Date: 6/25/2009
Subject: Re: Is my yabby building a nest?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 41376	From: Jasmine	Date: 6/25/2009
Subject: Re: Angels
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 41377	From: Jasmine	Date: 6/25/2009
Subject: Re: Angels
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 41378	From: Jasmine	Date: 6/25/2009
Subject: Re: Angels
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 41379	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 6/25/2009
Subject: Re: Angels
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 41380	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 6/25/2009
Subject: Re: Angels
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 41381	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 6/25/2009
Subject: Re: Angels
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 41382	From: Jasmine	Date: 6/25/2009
Subject: Re: Sexing Angelfish, was: Pleco verse Bristlenose
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 41383	From: Jasmine	Date: 6/25/2009
Subject: Re: Responses to Angels please help.
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 41384	From: Jasmine	Date: 6/25/2009
Subject: Re: Sexing Angelfish, was: Pleco verse Bristlenose
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 41385	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 6/25/2009
Subject: Re: Sexing Angelfish, was: Pleco verse Bristlenose
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 41386	From: Jasmine	Date: 6/25/2009
Subject: Re: Flourish products
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 41387	From: Jasmine	Date: 6/25/2009
Subject: Re: Flourish products
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 41388	From: bill 1433	Date: 6/25/2009
Subject: Re: Angels
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 41389	From: Jasmine	Date: 6/25/2009
Subject: Re: Angels
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 41390	From: bill 1433	Date: 6/25/2009
Subject: Re: Angels
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 41391	From: Jasmine	Date: 6/25/2009
Subject: Re: Angels
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 41392	From: Raymond Wetzel	Date: 6/25/2009
Subject: Re: Angels Please help???
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 41393	From: Joellen & Kevin Analla	Date: 6/25/2009
Subject: Re: Angels Please help???
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 41394	From: bill 1433	Date: 6/25/2009
Subject: Re: Angels Please help???
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 41395	From: Byron	Date: 6/25/2009
Subject: Re: Flourish products
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 41396	From: Joellen & Kevin Analla	Date: 6/25/2009
Subject: Re: Angels Please help???
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 41397	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 6/25/2009
Subject: Re: Angels
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 41398	From: Youth Opportunities	Date: 6/25/2009
Subject: Examples of Clearing house for Ornamental Fish
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 41399	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 6/25/2009
Subject: Re: Tap water Baseline testing
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 41400	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 6/25/2009
Subject: Re: Flourish products
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 41401	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 6/25/2009
Subject: Re: Angels
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 41402	From: Philip Charles	Date: 6/25/2009
Subject: Algae
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 41403	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 6/25/2009
Subject: Re: Angels
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 41404	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 6/25/2009
Subject: Re: Angels Please help???
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 41405	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 6/25/2009
Subject: Re: Examples of Clearing house for Ornamental Fish
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 41406	From: janis_chrystal	Date: 6/25/2009
Subject: Baby Catfish
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 41407	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 6/25/2009
Subject: Re: Algae
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 41408	From: bill 1433	Date: 6/25/2009
Subject: Re: Algae
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 41409	From: bill 1433	Date: 6/25/2009
Subject: Re: Baby Catfish
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 41410	From: jan1213@aol.com	Date: 6/25/2009
Subject: Re: Baby Catfish
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 41411	From: bill 1433	Date: 6/25/2009
Subject: Re: Baby Catfish
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 41413	From: jan1213@aol.com	Date: 6/25/2009
Subject: Re: Baby Catfish
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 41414	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 6/25/2009
Subject: Re: Tap water Baseline testing
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 41415	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 6/25/2009
Subject: Re: Flourish products
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 41416	From: biG poppa	Date: 6/25/2009
Subject: Re: Flourish products
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 41417	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 6/25/2009
Subject: 55 gallon community tank
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 41418	From: bill 1433	Date: 6/25/2009
Subject: Re: 55 gallon community tank
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 41419	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 6/25/2009
Subject: Re: Responses to Angels please help.
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 41420	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 6/25/2009
Subject: Re: Byron ~ Re: Co2 & Planted Tank?'s
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 41421	From: Jasmine	Date: 6/25/2009
Subject: Re: Angels
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 41422	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 6/25/2009
Subject: Re: Tap water Baseline testing
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 41423	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 6/25/2009
Subject: Re: Flourish products
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 41424	From: Jasmine	Date: 6/25/2009
Subject: Re: Responses to Angels please help.
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 41425	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 6/25/2009
Subject: Re: 55 gallon community tank
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 41426	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 6/25/2009
Subject: Re: 55 gallon community tank
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 41427	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 6/25/2009
Subject: Re: Flourish products
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 41428	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 6/25/2009
Subject: Re: 55 gallon community tank
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 41429	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 6/25/2009
Subject: Re: 55 gallon community tank
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 41430	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 6/25/2009
Subject: Re: Flourish products
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 41431	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 6/25/2009
Subject: Re: 55 gallon community tank
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 41432	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 6/25/2009
Subject: Re: Flourish products
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 41433	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 6/25/2009
Subject: Re: 55 gallon community tank
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 41434	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 6/25/2009
Subject: Re: 55 gallon community tank
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 41435	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 6/25/2009
Subject: Re: 55 gallon community tank
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 41436	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 6/25/2009
Subject: Re: 55 gallon community tank
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 41437	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 6/25/2009
Subject: Re: 55 gallon community tank
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 41438	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 6/25/2009
Subject: Re: 55 gallon community tank
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 41439	From: Raymond Wetzel	Date: 6/25/2009
Subject: Re: O/T - Kodachrome, etc. was: ANGELFISH, Once again
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 41440	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 6/25/2009
Subject: Re: 55 gallon community tank
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 41441	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 6/25/2009
Subject: Re: 55 gallon community tank
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 41442	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 6/25/2009
Subject: Re: 55 gallon community tank
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 41443	From: Jasmine	Date: 6/26/2009
Subject: Home page photo
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 41444	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 6/26/2009
Subject: Re: my nasty gourami
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 41445	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 6/26/2009
Subject: Re: 55 gallon community tank
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 41446	From: Raymond Wetzel	Date: 6/26/2009
Subject: Re: Angels
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 41447	From: bill 1433	Date: 6/26/2009
Subject: Re: 55 gallon community tank
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 41448	From: Raymond Wetzel	Date: 6/26/2009
Subject: Re: Responses to Angels please help.
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 41449	From: bill 1433	Date: 6/26/2009
Subject: Re: 55 gallon community tank
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 41450	From: bill 1433	Date: 6/26/2009
Subject: Re: Responses to Angels please help.
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 41451	From: Raymond Wetzel	Date: 6/26/2009
Subject: Re: Angels Please help???
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 41452	From: Raymond Wetzel	Date: 6/26/2009
Subject: Re: Angels Please help???
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 41453	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 6/26/2009
Subject: Re: 55 gallon community tank
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 41454	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 6/26/2009
Subject: Re: 55 gallon community tank
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 41455	From: Joellen & Kevin Analla	Date: 6/26/2009
Subject: Re: Angels Please help???
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 41456	From: bill 1433	Date: 6/26/2009
Subject: Re: 55 gallon community tank
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 41457	From: mihamlett	Date: 6/26/2009
Subject: Complete 55g Reef System for Sale
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 41458	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 6/26/2009
Subject: Re: 55 gallon community tank
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 41459	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 6/26/2009
Subject: Re: Angels Please help???
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 41460	From: Raymond Wetzel	Date: 6/26/2009
Subject: Re: O/T - PC Malfunctions
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 41461	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 6/26/2009
Subject: Re: 55 gallon community tank
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 41462	From: Gail	Date: 6/26/2009
Subject: Re: my nasty gourami
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 41463	From: biG poppa	Date: 6/26/2009
Subject: Re: my nasty gourami
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 41464	From: Joellen & Kevin Analla	Date: 6/26/2009
Subject: Re: Angels Please help???
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 41465	From: anallafamily.2001	Date: 6/26/2009
Subject: undergravel filters?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 41466	From: Eric Roberts	Date: 6/26/2009
Subject: Re: O/T - PC Malfunctions
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 41467	From: Raymond Wetzel	Date: 6/26/2009
Subject: Re: Angels Please help???
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 41468	From: Raymond Wetzel	Date: 6/26/2009
Subject: Re: O/T - PC Malfunctions
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 41469	From: Raymond Wetzel	Date: 6/26/2009
Subject: Re: Angels Please help???
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 41470	From: Eric Roberts	Date: 6/26/2009
Subject: Re: O/T - PC Malfunctions
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 41471	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 6/26/2009
Subject: Re: O/T - PC Malfunctions
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 41472	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 6/26/2009
Subject: Re: 55 gallon community tank
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 41473	From: bill 1433	Date: 6/26/2009
Subject: Re: undergravel filters?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 41474	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 6/26/2009
Subject: Re: 55 gallon community tank
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 41475	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 6/26/2009
Subject: Re: 55 gallon community tank
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 41476	From: Raymond Wetzel	Date: 6/26/2009
Subject: Re: Angels Please help???
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 41477	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 6/26/2009
Subject: Re: Angels Please help???
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 41478	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 6/26/2009
Subject: Re: undergravel filters?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 41479	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 6/26/2009
Subject: Re: 55 gallon community tank
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 41480	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 6/26/2009
Subject: Re: O/T - PC Malfunctions
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 41481	From: sevenspringss@wmconnect.com	Date: 6/26/2009
Subject: Re: O/T - PC Malfunctions
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 41482	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 6/26/2009
Subject: Re: 55 gallon community tank
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 41483	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 6/26/2009
Subject: Re: 55 gallon community tank
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 41484	From: Youth Opportunities	Date: 6/26/2009
Subject: Re: Examples of Clearing house for Ornamental Fish
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 41485	From: Joellen & Kevin Analla	Date: 6/26/2009
Subject: Re: Angels Please help???
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 41486	From: biG poppa	Date: 6/26/2009
Subject: Re: 55 gallon community tank
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 41487	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 6/26/2009
Subject: Re: Angels Please help???
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 41488	From: Sam Palermo	Date: 6/26/2009
Subject: Re: O/T - PC Malfunctions
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 41489	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 6/26/2009
Subject: Re: Big Poppa's Corys (was: 55 gallon community tank)
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 41490	From: biG poppa	Date: 6/26/2009
Subject: Re: Big Poppa's Corys (was: 55 gallon community tank)
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 41491	From: Eric Roberts	Date: 6/26/2009
Subject: Re: O/T - PC Malfunctions
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 41492	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 6/26/2009
Subject: Re: O/T - PC Malfunctions
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 41493	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 6/26/2009
Subject: Re: Big Poppa's Corys (was: 55 gallon community tank)
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 41494	From: Eric Roberts	Date: 6/26/2009
Subject: Re: O/T - PC Malfunctions
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 41495	From: Donna Ransome	Date: 6/26/2009
Subject: Re: 55 gallon community tank
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 41496	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 6/26/2009
Subject: Re: Complete 55g Reef System for Sale
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 41497	From: Sam Palermo	Date: 6/26/2009
Subject: Re: O/T - PC Malfunctions
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 41498	From: babyhellcat69	Date: 6/26/2009
Subject: Question about snail infested moss
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 41499	From: Matthew Hamlett	Date: 6/26/2009
Subject: Re: Complete 55g Reef System for Sale
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 41500	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 6/26/2009
Subject: Re: Question about snail infested moss
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 41501	From: Jasmine	Date: 6/27/2009
Subject: Re: Angels
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 41502	From: Jasmine	Date: 6/27/2009
Subject: Re: Responses to Angels please help.
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 41503	From: Jasmine	Date: 6/27/2009
Subject: Re: O/T - PC Malfunctions
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 41504	From: Jasmine	Date: 6/27/2009
Subject: Re: O/T - PC Malfunctions
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 41505	From: Jasmine	Date: 6/27/2009
Subject: Re: O/T - PC Malfunctions
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 41506	From: sevenspringss@wmconnect.com	Date: 6/27/2009
Subject: Re: O/T - PC Malfunctions
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 41507	From: aaron102272	Date: 6/27/2009
Subject: Re: Flourish products
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 41508	From: sevenspringss@wmconnect.com	Date: 6/27/2009
Subject: Re: O/T - PC Malfunctions
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 41509	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 6/27/2009
Subject: Re: Complete 55g Reef System for Sale
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 41510	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 6/27/2009
Subject: Quick Review of SonicScrubber
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 41511	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 6/27/2009
Subject: Plasma Candy Aquarium DVD
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 41512	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 6/27/2009
Subject: Re: Quick Review of SonicScrubber
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 41513	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 6/27/2009
Subject: Re: Quick Review of SonicScrubber
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 41514	From: William	Date: 6/27/2009
Subject: Re: Responses to Angels please help.
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 41515	From: Thomas Silva	Date: 6/27/2009
Subject: Re: Off Topic? ~ Great Sale! @ www.CustomAquatic.com
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 41516	From: bill 1433	Date: 6/27/2009
Subject: Re: Responses to Angels please help.
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 41517	From: Byron	Date: 6/27/2009
Subject: Re: Flourish products
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 41518	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 6/27/2009
Subject: Rams! and LFS rant.
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 41519	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 6/27/2009
Subject: 55 gallon tank for the Angel's
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 41520	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 6/27/2009
Subject: 55 gallon community tank and crushed coral added results
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 41521	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 6/27/2009
Subject: Re: 55 gallon tank for the Angel's
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 41522	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 6/27/2009
Subject: Re: 55 gallon community tank and crushed coral added results
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 41523	From: ladyjadewindrunner	Date: 6/27/2009
Subject: What plants are best for removal of Nitrites and Nitrates? And other
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 41524	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 6/28/2009
Subject: Re: What plants are best for removal of Nitrites and Nitrates? And o
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 41525	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 6/28/2009
Subject: Re: 55 gallon tank for the Angel's
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 41526	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 6/28/2009
Subject: Re: 55 gallon tank for the Angel's
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 41527	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 6/28/2009
Subject: Re: What plants are best for removal of Nitrites and Nitrates? And o
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 41528	From: janis_chrystal	Date: 6/28/2009
Subject: new tank
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 41529	From: Donna Ransome	Date: 6/28/2009
Subject: Re: new tank
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 41530	From: Donna Ransome	Date: 6/28/2009
Subject: Re: new tank
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 41531	From: Harl Myers	Date: 6/28/2009
Subject: Re: new tank
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 41532	From: jan1213@aol.com	Date: 6/28/2009
Subject: Re: new tank
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 41533	From: Harl Myers	Date: 6/28/2009
Subject: Re: new tank
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 41534	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 6/28/2009
Subject: Re: new tank
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 41535	From: Harl Myers	Date: 6/28/2009
Subject: Re: Rams! and LFS rant.
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 41536	From: bill 1433	Date: 6/28/2009
Subject: Re: new tank
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 41537	From: Donna Ransome	Date: 6/28/2009
Subject: Re: new tank
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 41538	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 6/28/2009
Subject: New Google Feature
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 41539	From: bill 1433	Date: 6/28/2009
Subject: Re: New Google Feature
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 41540	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 6/28/2009
Subject: Re: 55 gallon tank for the Angel's
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 41541	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 6/28/2009
Subject: Re: Rams! and LFS rant.
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 41542	From: sgriscom_2	Date: 6/28/2009
Subject: Molly questions
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 41543	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 6/28/2009
Subject: Re: new tank
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 41544	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 6/28/2009
Subject: Re: new tank
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 41545	From: jan1213@aol.com	Date: 6/28/2009
Subject: Re: new tank
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 41546	From: Harl Myers	Date: 6/28/2009
Subject: Re: Rams! and LFS rant.
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 41547	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 6/28/2009
Subject: Re: new tank
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 41548	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 6/28/2009
Subject: Re: Rams! and LFS rant.
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 41549	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 6/28/2009
Subject: Re: Rams! and LFS rant.
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 41550	From: bill 1433	Date: 6/28/2009
Subject: Re: Rams! and LFS rant.
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 41551	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 6/28/2009
Subject: Dwarf Cichlid lovers... the Cockatoo Cichlid
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 41552	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 6/28/2009
Subject: Re: Rams! and LFS rant.
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 41553	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 6/28/2009
Subject: Re: Rams! and LFS rant.
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 41554	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 6/28/2009
Subject: Re: Rams! and LFS rant.
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 41555	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 6/28/2009
Subject: Re: Rams! and LFS rant.
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 41556	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 6/28/2009
Subject: Re: 55 gallon tank for the Angel's
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 41557	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 6/28/2009
Subject: Re: Dwarf Cichlid lovers... the Cockatoo Cichlid
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 41558	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 6/28/2009
Subject: Re: Dwarf Cichlid lovers... the Cockatoo Cichlid
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 41559	From: bill 1433	Date: 6/28/2009
Subject: Re: Rams! and LFS rant.
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 41560	From: bill 1433	Date: 6/28/2009
Subject: Re: Rams! and LFS rant.
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 41561	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 6/28/2009
Subject: Re: Dwarf Cichlid lovers... the Cockatoo Cichlid
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 41562	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 6/28/2009
Subject: Re: Rams! and LFS rant.
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 41563	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 6/28/2009
Subject: Re: Rams! and LFS rant.
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 41564	From: bill 1433	Date: 6/28/2009
Subject: Re: Rams! and LFS rant.
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 41565	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 6/28/2009
Subject: Re: 55 gallon community tank and crushed coral added results
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 41566	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 6/28/2009
Subject: Re: 55 gallon community tank and crushed coral added results
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 41567	From: Deenerz@aol.com	Date: 6/28/2009
Subject: Re: Dwarf Cichlid lovers... the Cockatoo Cichlid
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 41568	From: Dora Smith	Date: 6/28/2009
Subject: Re: Dwarf Cichlid lovers... the Cockatoo Cichlid
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 41569	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 6/28/2009
Subject: Re: Dwarf Cichlid lovers... the Cockatoo Cichlid
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 41570	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 6/28/2009
Subject: Re: 55 gallon community tank and crushed coral added results
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 41571	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 6/28/2009
Subject: Re: Rams! and LFS rant.
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 41572	From: bill 1433	Date: 6/28/2009
Subject: Re: Rams! and LFS rant.
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 41573	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 6/28/2009
Subject: Re: Rams! and LFS rant.
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 41574	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 6/28/2009
Subject: Re: 55 gallon community tank and crushed coral added results
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 41575	From: William	Date: 6/28/2009
Subject: Re: Rams! and LFS rant.
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 41576	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 6/28/2009
Subject: Re: 55 gallon community tank and crushed coral added results
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 41577	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 6/28/2009
Subject: Re: 55 gallon community tank and crushed coral added results
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 41578	From: ladyjadewindrunner	Date: 6/29/2009
Subject: Re: What plants are best for removal of Nitrites and Nitrates? And o
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 41579	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 6/29/2009
Subject: Re: What plants are best for removal of Nitrites and Nitrates? And o
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 41580	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 6/29/2009
Subject: Re: Rams! and LFS rant.
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 41581	From: bill 1433	Date: 6/29/2009
Subject: Re: Rams! and LFS rant.
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 41582	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 6/29/2009
Subject: Re: What plants are best for removal of Nitrites and Nitrates? And o
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 41583	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 6/29/2009
Subject: Re: 55 gallon community tank and crushed coral added results
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 41584	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 6/29/2009
Subject: Re: 55 gallon community tank and crushed coral added results
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 41585	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 6/29/2009
Subject: Re: Rams! and LFS rant.
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 41586	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 6/29/2009
Subject: Re: 55 gallon community tank and crushed coral added results
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 41587	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 6/30/2009
Subject: Snails and seachem flourish products
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 41588	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 6/30/2009
Subject: Re: Snails and seachem flourish products
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 41589	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 6/30/2009
Subject: Re: Snails and seachem flourish products
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 41590	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 6/30/2009
Subject: Re: Snails and seachem flourish products
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 41591	From: pam andress	Date: 6/30/2009
Subject: Re: Snails and seachem flourish products
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 41592	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 6/30/2009
Subject: Re: Snails and seachem flourish products
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 41593	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 6/30/2009
Subject: Re: Snails and seachem flourish products
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 41594	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 6/30/2009
Subject: Re: Snails and seachem flourish products
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 41595	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 7/1/2009
Subject: Rams and incoming fish
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 41596	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 7/1/2009
Subject: Re: Rams and incoming fish
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 41597	From: Donna Ransome	Date: 7/1/2009
Subject: Re: Snails and seachem flourish products
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 41598	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 7/1/2009
Subject: Re: Rams and incoming fish
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 41599	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 7/1/2009
Subject: Re: Rams and incoming fish
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 41600	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 7/1/2009
Subject: Re: Snails and seachem flourish products
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 41601	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 7/1/2009
Subject: Re: Snails and seachem flourish products
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 41602	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 7/1/2009
Subject: Re: Rams and incoming fish
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 41603	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 7/1/2009
Subject: Re: Rams and incoming fish
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 41604	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 7/1/2009
Subject: Re: Rams and incoming fish
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 41605	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 7/1/2009
Subject: Re: Rams and incoming fish
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 41606	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 7/1/2009
Subject: Re: Rams and incoming fish
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 41607	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 7/1/2009
Subject: Re: Rams and incoming fish
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 41608	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 7/1/2009
Subject: Lenny
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 41609	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 7/1/2009
Subject: Re: Rams and incoming fish
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 41610	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 7/2/2009
Subject: Re: Lenny
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 41611	From: Donna Ransome	Date: 7/2/2009
Subject: Re: Rams and incoming fish
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 41612	From: bill 1433	Date: 7/2/2009
Subject: Amber, need to know? Rams and incoming fish
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 41613	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 7/2/2009
Subject: Re: Rams and incoming fish
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 41614	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 7/2/2009
Subject: Re: Lenny
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 41615	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 7/2/2009
Subject: Re: Amber, need to know? Rams and incoming fish
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 41616	From: bill 1433	Date: 7/2/2009
Subject: Re: Amber, need to know? Rams and incoming fish
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 41617	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 7/2/2009
Subject: Re: Amber, need to know? Rams and incoming fish
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 41618	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 7/2/2009
Subject: Re: Lenny
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 41619	From: bill 1433	Date: 7/2/2009
Subject: Re: Lenny
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 41620	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 7/2/2009
Subject: Re: Lenny
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 41621	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 7/2/2009
Subject: Live food suggestions please
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 41622	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 7/2/2009
Subject: Moved the Angel's into their own 55
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 41623	From: sandi turner	Date: 7/2/2009
Subject: Re: Lenny
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 41624	From: bill 1433	Date: 7/2/2009
Subject: Re: Lenny
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 41625	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 7/2/2009
Subject: Re: Lenny
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 41626	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 7/2/2009
Subject: Re: Moved the Angel's into their own 55
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 41627	From: pam andress	Date: 7/2/2009
Subject: Re: Lenny
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 41628	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 7/2/2009
Subject: Black beard algae
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 41629	From: Menagerie_Manager	Date: 7/2/2009
Subject: Re: Black beard algae
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 41630	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 7/2/2009
Subject: Re: Black beard algae
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 41631	From: Gilbert	Date: 7/2/2009
Subject: Re: Black Beard Algae
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 41632	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 7/2/2009
Subject: Re: Black Beard Algae
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 41633	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 7/2/2009
Subject: Re: Black beard algae
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 41634	From: footprint145	Date: 7/2/2009
Subject: Bolivian Ram
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 41635	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 7/2/2009
Subject: Re: Black Beard Algae
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 41636	From: Gilbert	Date: 7/2/2009
Subject: Re: Black Beard Algae
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 41637	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 7/2/2009
Subject: Any safe tank mates for the Angel's?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 41638	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 7/2/2009
Subject: Re: Amber, need to know? Rams and incoming fish
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 41639	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 7/2/2009
Subject: Re: Black Beard Algae
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 41640	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 7/2/2009
Subject: Re: Live food suggestions please
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 41641	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 7/2/2009
Subject: Re: Bolivian Ram
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 41642	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 7/3/2009
Subject: Re: Any safe tank mates for the Angel's?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 41643	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 7/3/2009
Subject: Re: Bolivian Ram
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 41644	From: bill 1433	Date: 7/3/2009
Subject: Re: Live food suggestions please
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 41645	From: bill 1433	Date: 7/3/2009
Subject: Re: Amber, need to know? Rams and incoming fish
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 41646	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 7/3/2009
Subject: Re: Live food suggestions please
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 41647	From: Donna Ransome	Date: 7/3/2009
Subject: Re: Black Beard Algae
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 41648	From: Donna Ransome	Date: 7/3/2009
Subject: Re: Any safe tank mates for the Angel's?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 41649	From: Raymond Wetzel	Date: 7/3/2009
Subject: Re: Black beard algae
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 41650	From: Raymond Wetzel	Date: 7/3/2009
Subject: Re: Black Beard Algae
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 41651	From: harry perry	Date: 7/3/2009
Subject: Black Hair Algae
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 41652	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 7/3/2009
Subject: Re: Any safe tank mates for the Angel's?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 41653	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 7/3/2009
Subject: Re: Live food suggestions please
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 41654	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 7/3/2009
Subject: Re: Amber, need to know? Rams and incoming fish
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 41655	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 7/3/2009
Subject: Re: Black Beard Algae
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 41656	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 7/3/2009
Subject: Re: Any safe tank mates for the Angel's?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 41657	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 7/3/2009
Subject: Re: Black beard algae
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 41658	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 7/3/2009
Subject: Re: Live food suggestions please
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 41659	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 7/3/2009
Subject: Re: Any safe tank mates for the Angel's?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 41660	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 7/3/2009
Subject: Re: Live food suggestions please
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 41661	From: bill 1433	Date: 7/3/2009
Subject: Re: Amber, need to know? Rams and incoming fish
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 41662	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 7/3/2009
Subject: Re: Amber, need to know? Rams and incoming fish
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 41663	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 7/3/2009
Subject: Re: Amber, need to know? Rams and incoming fish
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 41664	From: sgriscom_2	Date: 7/3/2009
Subject: Re: Molly questions
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 41665	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 7/3/2009
Subject: Re: Amber, need to know? Rams and incoming fish
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 41666	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 7/3/2009
Subject: Re: Molly questions
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 41667	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 7/3/2009
Subject: Re: Any safe tank mates for the Angel's?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 41668	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 7/3/2009
Subject: Re: Live food suggestions please
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 41669	From: bill 1433	Date: 7/3/2009
Subject: Re: Live food suggestions please
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 41670	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 7/3/2009
Subject: Re: Live food suggestions please
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 41671	From: bill 1433	Date: 7/3/2009
Subject: Re: Live food suggestions please
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 41672	From: Donna Ransome	Date: 7/3/2009
Subject: Re: Any safe tank mates for the Angel's?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 41673	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 7/3/2009
Subject: 55 gallon (upstairs) tank
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 41674	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 7/3/2009
Subject: Re: Any safe tank mates for the Angel's?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 41675	From: Rodrigues Gilbert	Date: 7/3/2009
Subject: (no subject)
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 41676	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 7/3/2009
Subject: Oh my, my ram's are spawning already! LOL
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 41677	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 7/3/2009
Subject: Re: Oh my, my ram's are spawning already! LOL
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 41678	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 7/3/2009
Subject: Re: Oh my, my ram's are spawning already! LOL
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 41679	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 7/3/2009
Subject: My next additions, LOL
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 41680	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 7/3/2009
Subject: Re: Oh my, my ram's are spawning already! LOL
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 41681	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 7/3/2009
Subject: Re: Oh my, my ram's are spawning already! LOL
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 41682	From: Marion Hogervorst	Date: 7/4/2009
Subject: Hi from Holland :)
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 41683	From: Donna Ransome	Date: 7/4/2009
Subject: Re: Any safe tank mates for the Angel's?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 41684	From: Raymond Wetzel	Date: 7/4/2009
Subject: Re: Hi from Holland :)
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 41685	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 7/4/2009
Subject: Re: Oh my, my ram's are spawning already! LOL
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 41686	From: Dora Smith	Date: 7/4/2009
Subject: Re: Live food suggestions please
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 41687	From: Menagerie_Manager	Date: 7/4/2009
Subject: Plastic canvas question and OT- kitten
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 41688	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 7/4/2009
Subject: Re: Plastic canvas question and OT- kitten
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 41689	From: Dora Smith	Date: 7/4/2009
Subject: Re: Plastic canvas question and OT- kitten
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 41690	From: Dora Smith	Date: 7/4/2009
Subject: Re: How many mosquito larvae do I feed one betta?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 41691	From: Dr. Norman Ali Khalaf	Date: 7/4/2009
Subject: Garra barreimiae wurayahi Khalaf, 2009 : A New Blind Cave Fish Subsp
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 41692	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 7/4/2009
Subject: Re: Plastic canvas question and OT- kitten
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 41693	From: Rodrigues Gilbert	Date: 7/4/2009
Subject: Re: Hi from Holland :)
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 41694	From: Menagerie_Manager	Date: 7/4/2009
Subject: Re: Plastic canvas question and OT- kitten
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 41695	From: Menagerie_Manager	Date: 7/4/2009
Subject: Re: Plastic canvas question and OT- kitten
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 41696	From: Menagerie_Manager	Date: 7/4/2009
Subject: Re: Plastic canvas question and OT- kitten
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 41697	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 7/4/2009
Subject: Re: Plastic canvas question and OT- kitten
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 41698	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 7/4/2009
Subject: Re: Plastic canvas question and OT- kitten
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 41699	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 7/4/2009
Subject: Re: Plastic canvas question and OT- kitten
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 41700	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 7/4/2009
Subject: Re: Plastic canvas question and OT- kitten
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 41701	From: Menagerie_Manager	Date: 7/4/2009
Subject: Re: Plastic canvas question and OT- kitten
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 41702	From: Dora Smith	Date: 7/4/2009
Subject: Re: [Bulk] RE: [AquaticLife] Plastic canvas question and OT- kitten
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 41703	From: Menagerie_Manager	Date: 7/4/2009
Subject: Re: Plastic canvas question and OT- kitten
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 41704	From: Menagerie_Manager	Date: 7/4/2009
Subject: Re: Plastic canvas question and OT- kitten
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 41705	From: pam andress	Date: 7/4/2009
Subject: Re: Plastic canvas question and OT- kitten
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 41706	From: Menagerie_Manager	Date: 7/4/2009
Subject: Re: OT- kitten
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 41707	From: Donna Ransome	Date: 7/4/2009
Subject: Re: Plastic canvas question and OT- kitten
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 41708	From: pam andress	Date: 7/4/2009
Subject: Re: OT- kitten
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 41709	From: Menagerie_Manager	Date: 7/4/2009
Subject: Re: Plastic canvas question and OT- kitten
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 41710	From: Menagerie_Manager	Date: 7/4/2009
Subject: Re: OT- kitten
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 41711	From: pam andress	Date: 7/4/2009
Subject: Re: OT- kitten
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 41712	From: Menagerie_Manager	Date: 7/4/2009
Subject: Re: OT- kitten
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 41713	From: Deenerz@aol.com	Date: 7/4/2009
Subject: Re: Garra barreimiae wurayahi Khalaf, 2009 : A New Blind Cave Fish S
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 41714	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 7/4/2009
Subject: Everything is spawning I swear! LOL
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 41715	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 7/4/2009
Subject: Trying my hand at making a paste food
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 41716	From: Deenerz@aol.com	Date: 7/4/2009
Subject: Re: Plastic canvas question and OT- kitten
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 41717	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 7/4/2009
Subject: Re: Trying my hand at making a paste food
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 41718	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 7/5/2009
Subject: Re: Everything is spawning I swear! LOL
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 41719	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 7/5/2009
Subject: Re: Trying my hand at making a paste food
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 41720	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 7/5/2009
Subject: Re: Trying my hand at making a paste food
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 41721	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 7/5/2009
Subject: Re: Everything is spawning I swear! LOL
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 41722	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 7/5/2009
Subject: Re: Everything is spawning I swear! LOL
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 41723	From: Raymond Wetzel	Date: 7/5/2009
Subject: Re: Everything is spawning I swear! LOL
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 41724	From: toddswoman496861@aim.com	Date: 7/5/2009
Subject: Re: Plastic canvas question and OT- kitten
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 41725	From: Menagerie_Manager	Date: 7/5/2009
Subject: Re: Plastic canvas question and OT- kitten
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 41726	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 7/5/2009
Subject: Re: Everything is spawning I swear! LOL
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 41727	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 7/5/2009
Subject: Re: Everything is spawning I swear! LOL
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 41728	From: toddswoman496861@aim.com	Date: 7/5/2009
Subject: Re: Plastic canvas question and OT- kitten
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 41729	From: Raymond Wetzel	Date: 7/5/2009
Subject: Re: Everything is spawning I swear! LOL
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 41730	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 7/5/2009
Subject: Re: Everything is spawning I swear! LOL
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 41731	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 7/5/2009
Subject: Re: Everything is spawning I swear! LOL
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 41732	From: jett07002	Date: 7/5/2009
Subject: Re: Bolivian Ram
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 41733	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 7/5/2009
Subject: Re: Everything is spawning I swear! LOL
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 41734	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 7/5/2009
Subject: Re: Trying my hand at making a paste food
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 41735	From: Gwydryn@aol.com	Date: 7/5/2009
Subject: Re: Everything is spawning I swear! LOL
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 41736	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 7/5/2009
Subject: Re: Trying my hand at making a paste food
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 41737	From: bill 1433	Date: 7/5/2009
Subject: Re: Trying my hand at making a paste food
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 41738	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 7/5/2009
Subject: Re: Trying my hand at making a paste food
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 41739	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 7/5/2009
Subject: Re: Trying my hand at making a paste food
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 41740	From: Menagerie_Manager	Date: 7/5/2009
Subject: OT- kitten update
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 41741	From: Raymond Wetzel	Date: 7/5/2009
Subject: Re: Everything is spawning I swear! LOL
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 41742	From: Wendie	Date: 7/5/2009
Subject: Re: OT- kitten update
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 41743	From: Raymond Wetzel	Date: 7/5/2009
Subject: Re: Everything is spawning I swear! LOL
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 41744	From: Raymond Wetzel	Date: 7/5/2009
Subject: Re: Everything is spawning I swear! LOL
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 41745	From: Menagerie_Manager	Date: 7/5/2009
Subject: Re: OT- kitten update
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 41746	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 7/5/2009
Subject: Re: Everything is spawning I swear! LOL
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 41747	From: toddswoman496861@aim.com	Date: 7/5/2009
Subject: Re: OT- kitten update
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 41748	From: Menagerie_Manager	Date: 7/5/2009
Subject: Re: OT- kitten update
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 41749	From: Lisa	Date: 7/5/2009
Subject: Looking for plants again
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 41750	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 7/5/2009
Subject: Re: Looking for plants again
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 41751	From: Lisa	Date: 7/5/2009
Subject: Re: Looking for plants again
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 41752	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 7/5/2009
Subject: Re: Looking for plants again
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 41753	From: Lisa	Date: 7/5/2009
Subject: Re: Looking for plants again
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 41754	From: Raymond Wetzel	Date: 7/6/2009
Subject: Re: Everything is spawning I swear! LOL
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 41755	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 7/6/2009
Subject: Bad computer
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 41756	From: Byron	Date: 7/6/2009
Subject: Re: Bolivian Ram
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 41757	From: tony.cfield369@btinternet.com	Date: 7/6/2009
Subject: Aquatic zoology
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 41758	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 7/6/2009
Subject: Re: Everything is spawning I swear! LOL
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 41759	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 7/6/2009
Subject: Re: Everything is spawning I swear! LOL
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 41760	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 7/6/2009
Subject: Re: Looking for plants again
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 41761	From: Menagerie_Manager	Date: 7/6/2009
Subject: Re: Aquatic zoology
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 41762	From: Gail	Date: 7/6/2009
Subject: UPDATE 6/6 Why do Algae blooms only occur in my 55 Gallon?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 41763	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 7/6/2009
Subject: Re: Everything is spawning I swear! LOL
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 41764	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 7/6/2009
Subject: Re: Everything is spawning I swear! LOL
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 41765	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 7/6/2009
Subject: Okay so far I've only lost 1 of my new fish
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 41766	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 7/6/2009
Subject: Re: Everything is spawning I swear! LOL
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 41767	From: anallafamily.2001	Date: 7/6/2009
Subject: Help.....Coral vs. live rock?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 41768	From: Raymond Wetzel	Date: 7/6/2009
Subject: Re: Everything is spawning I swear! LOL
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 41769	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 7/6/2009
Subject: Re: Everything is spawning I swear! LOL
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 41770	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 7/6/2009
Subject: Re: Everything is spawning I swear! LOL
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 41771	From: Lisa	Date: 7/7/2009
Subject: What happened?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 41772	From: blackbetty0007	Date: 7/7/2009
Subject: Fat Platty?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 41773	From: Lisa	Date: 7/7/2009
Subject: Re: Fat Platty?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 41774	From: Gwydryn@aol.com	Date: 7/7/2009
Subject: Re: Okay so far I've only lost 1 of my new fish
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 41775	From: Raymond Wetzel	Date: 7/7/2009
Subject: Re: Everything is spawning I swear! LOL
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 41776	From: Raymond Wetzel	Date: 7/7/2009
Subject: Re: Everything is spawning I swear! LOL
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 41777	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 7/7/2009
Subject: Re: What happened?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 41778	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 7/7/2009
Subject: Re: Fat Platty?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 41779	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 7/7/2009
Subject: Re: Everything is spawning I swear! LOL
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 41780	From: mosquitokr2002	Date: 7/7/2009
Subject: Re: Aquatic zoology
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 41781	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 7/7/2009
Subject: Re: Everything is spawning I swear! LOL
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 41782	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 7/7/2009
Subject: Re: Everything is spawning I swear! LOL
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 41783	From: greychildren	Date: 7/7/2009
Subject: Items for trade
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 41784	From: Gail	Date: 7/7/2009
Subject: Re: What happened?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 41785	From: Gail	Date: 7/7/2009
Subject: Re: Bolivian Ram
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 41786	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 7/7/2009
Subject: Re: Okay so far I've only lost 1 of my new fish
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 41787	From: Raymond Wetzel	Date: 7/7/2009
Subject: Re: Everything is spawning I swear! LOL
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 41788	From: biG poppa	Date: 7/7/2009
Subject: Re: Everything is spawning I swear! LOL
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 41789	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 7/7/2009
Subject: Re: Everything is spawning I swear! LOL
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 41790	From: biG poppa	Date: 7/7/2009
Subject: Re: Everything is spawning I swear! LOL
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 41791	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 7/7/2009
Subject: Water change
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 41792	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 7/7/2009
Subject: Re: Everything is spawning I swear! LOL
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 41793	From: biG poppa	Date: 7/7/2009
Subject: Re: Water change
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 41794	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 7/7/2009
Subject: Re: Water change
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 41795	From: rcdtrc	Date: 7/7/2009
Subject: Hi i have a question
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 41796	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 7/7/2009
Subject: Re: Water change
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 41797	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 7/7/2009
Subject: Re: Hi i have a question
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 41798	From: biG poppa	Date: 7/7/2009
Subject: Re: Water change
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 41799	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 7/7/2009
Subject: Re: Hi i have a question
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 41800	From: greychildren	Date: 7/7/2009
Subject: extra equipment question
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 41801	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 7/7/2009
Subject: Re: Water change
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 41802	From: biG poppa	Date: 7/7/2009
Subject: Re: Water change
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 41803	From: Lisa Lawless	Date: 7/7/2009
Subject: Re; What happened
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 41804	From: Donna Ransome	Date: 7/7/2009
Subject: Re: Water change
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 41805	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 7/7/2009
Subject: Re: Water change
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 41806	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 7/7/2009
Subject: Re: Re; What happened
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 41807	From: footprint145	Date: 7/7/2009
Subject: Re: Bolivian Ram - larger tank
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 41808	From: Lisa	Date: 7/7/2009
Subject: Re: Re; What happened
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 41809	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 7/7/2009
Subject: Re: Re; What happened
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 41810	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 7/7/2009
Subject: agonogeton ulvaceus
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 41811	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 7/7/2009
Subject: Question about foreground plants
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 41812	From: Menagerie_Manager	Date: 7/7/2009
Subject: Re: OT- kitten update
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 41813	From: Lisa	Date: 7/8/2009
Subject: Re: Re; What happened
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 41814	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 7/8/2009
Subject: Re: Re; What happened
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 41815	From: Gail	Date: 7/8/2009
Subject: Re: Bolivian Ram - larger tank
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 41816	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 7/8/2009
Subject: Re: Bolivian Ram - larger tank
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 41817	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 7/8/2009
Subject: Re: agonogeton ulvaceus
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 41818	From: Bob Cutrupi	Date: 7/8/2009
Subject: Koi pond problem
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 41819	From: Byron	Date: 7/8/2009
Subject: Re: Bolivian Ram - larger tank
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 41820	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 7/8/2009
Subject: Re: Koi pond problem
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 41821	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 7/8/2009
Subject: Re: agonogeton ulvaceus
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 41822	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 7/8/2009
Subject: Snails (Haha!)
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 41823	From: biG poppa	Date: 7/8/2009
Subject: Re: Snails (Haha!)
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 41824	From: Lisa	Date: 7/8/2009
Subject: Re: Re; What happened
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 41825	From: biG poppa	Date: 7/8/2009
Subject: Re: Re; What happened
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 41826	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 7/8/2009
Subject: Snails again
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 41827	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 7/8/2009
Subject: Re: Re; What happened
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 41828	From: rcdtrc	Date: 7/8/2009
Subject: Re: Hi i have a question
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 41829	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 7/8/2009
Subject: Re: Snails again
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 41830	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 7/8/2009
Subject: Re: Hi i have a question
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 41831	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 7/8/2009
Subject: Re: Snails again
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 41832	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 7/8/2009
Subject: Re: Snails again
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 41833	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 7/8/2009
Subject: Re: Snails again
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 41834	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 7/8/2009
Subject: Re: Snails again
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 41835	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 7/8/2009
Subject: Re: Snails again
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 41836	From: footprint145	Date: 7/9/2009
Subject: Re: Bolivian Ram - larger tank
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 41837	From: Raymond Wetzel	Date: 7/9/2009
Subject: Re: Koi pond problem
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 41838	From: biG poppa	Date: 7/9/2009
Subject: Re: Snails again
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 41839	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 7/9/2009
Subject: How often to feed snails?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 41840	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 7/9/2009
Subject: Re: Snails again
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 41841	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 7/9/2009
Subject: Re: How often to feed snails?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 41842	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 7/9/2009
Subject: Re: How often to feed snails?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 41843	From: biG poppa	Date: 7/9/2009
Subject: Re: How often to feed snails?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 41844	From: Gwydryn@aol.com	Date: 7/9/2009
Subject: Re: How often to feed snails?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 41845	From: Gail	Date: 7/9/2009
Subject: Re: Bolivian Ram - larger tank
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 41846	From: babyhellcat69	Date: 7/9/2009
Subject: Snails with bad shells??
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 41847	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 7/9/2009
Subject: Re: Snails with bad shells??
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 41848	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 7/9/2009
Subject: Re: How often to feed snails?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 41849	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 7/9/2009
Subject: Re: How often to feed snails?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 41850	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 7/9/2009
Subject: Re: Snails with bad shells??
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 41851	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 7/9/2009
Subject: Re: Snails with bad shells??
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 41852	From: babyhellcat69	Date: 7/9/2009
Subject: Re: Snails with bad shells??
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 41853	From: sgriscom_2	Date: 7/9/2009
Subject: Canister filter
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 41854	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 7/9/2009
Subject: Re: Snails with bad shells??
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 41855	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 7/9/2009
Subject: Re: Canister filter
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 41856	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 7/10/2009
Subject: Lenny, suggestion for bunch plants?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 41857	From: sgriscom_2	Date: 7/10/2009
Subject: 80 Gallon Tank
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 41858	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 7/10/2009
Subject: Re: 80 Gallon Tank
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 41859	From: bill 1433	Date: 7/10/2009
Subject: Re: 80 Gallon Tank
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 41860	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 7/10/2009
Subject: Re: 80 Gallon Tank
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 41861	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 7/10/2009
Subject: Re: 80 Gallon Tank
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 41862	From: bill 1433	Date: 7/10/2009
Subject: Re: 80 Gallon Tank
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 41863	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 7/10/2009
Subject: Re: Lenny, suggestion for bunch plants?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 41864	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 7/10/2009
Subject: Re: 80 Gallon Tank
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 41865	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 7/10/2009
Subject: Re: 80 Gallon Tank
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 41866	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 7/10/2009
Subject: Re: Lenny, suggestion for bunch plants?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 41867	From: bill 1433	Date: 7/10/2009
Subject: Re: 80 Gallon Tank---CHECK THAT!
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 41868	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 7/10/2009
Subject: Re: 80 Gallon Tank
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 41869	From: anallafamily.2001	Date: 7/10/2009
Subject: Volitan Lionfish
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 41870	From: Byron	Date: 7/10/2009
Subject: Re: Bolivian Ram - larger tank
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 41871	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 7/10/2009
Subject: Re: Lenny, suggestion for bunch plants?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 41872	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 7/10/2009
Subject: Re: 80 Gallon Tank---CHECK THAT!
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 41873	From: greychildren	Date: 7/10/2009
Subject: Question for Lenny
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 41874	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 7/10/2009
Subject: Re: Lenny, suggestion for bunch plants?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 41875	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 7/10/2009
Subject: Re: Question for Lenny
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 41876	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 7/10/2009
Subject: Re: Lenny, suggestion for bunch plants?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 41877	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 7/10/2009
Subject: Poor snail :(
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 41878	From: biG poppa	Date: 7/10/2009
Subject: Re: Question for Lenny
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 41879	From: Gwydryn@aol.com	Date: 7/10/2009
Subject: Re: Poor snail :(
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 41880	From: biG poppa	Date: 7/10/2009
Subject: Re: Poor snail :(
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 41881	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 7/10/2009
Subject: Re: Poor snail :(
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 41882	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 7/10/2009
Subject: Re: Poor snail :(
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 41883	From: Gail	Date: 7/10/2009
Subject: Re: Snails with bad shells??
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 41884	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 7/10/2009
Subject: Re: Snails with bad shells??
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 41885	From: biG poppa	Date: 7/10/2009
Subject: Re: Poor snail :(
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 41886	From: biG poppa	Date: 7/10/2009
Subject: Re: Lenny, suggestion for bunch plants?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 41887	From: pam andress	Date: 7/10/2009
Subject: Re: Question for Lenny
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 41888	From: biG poppa	Date: 7/10/2009
Subject: Re: Question for Lenny
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 41889	From: bill 1433	Date: 7/10/2009
Subject: Re: Snails with bad shells??
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 41890	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 7/10/2009
Subject: Re: Question for Lenny
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 41891	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 7/10/2009
Subject: Re: Poor snail :(
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 41892	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 7/10/2009
Subject: Re: Lenny, suggestion for bunch plants?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 41893	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 7/10/2009
Subject: Re: Poor snail :(
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 41894	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 7/10/2009
Subject: Re: Snails with bad shells??
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 41895	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 7/10/2009
Subject: Re: Poor snail :(
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 41896	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 7/10/2009
Subject: Re: agonogeton ulvaceus
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 41897	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 7/10/2009
Subject: Re: Poor snail :(
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 41898	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 7/10/2009
Subject: Re: Poor snail :(
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 41899	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 7/10/2009
Subject: Re: agonogeton ulvaceus
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 41900	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 7/10/2009
Subject: Re: agonogeton ulvaceus
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 41901	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 7/10/2009
Subject: Re: agonogeton ulvaceus
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 41902	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 7/10/2009
Subject: More snail pictures
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 41903	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 7/10/2009
Subject: Re: Poor snail :(
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 41904	From: toddswoman496861@aim.com	Date: 7/10/2009
Subject: Re: Snails with bad shells??
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 41905	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 7/10/2009
Subject: Re: Poor snail :(
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 41906	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 7/10/2009
Subject: Gosh, I forgot to ask something important, LOL
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 41907	From: pam andress	Date: 7/11/2009
Subject: Re: Gosh, I forgot to ask something important, LOL
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 41908	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 7/11/2009
Subject: Re: Gosh, I forgot to ask something important, LOL
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 41909	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 7/11/2009
Subject: Re: Gosh, I forgot to ask something important, LOL
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 41910	From: biG poppa	Date: 7/11/2009
Subject: Re: java moss
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 41911	From: janis_chrystal	Date: 7/11/2009
Subject: cory doral catfish
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 41912	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 7/11/2009
Subject: Re: cory doral catfish
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 41913	From: biG poppa	Date: 7/11/2009
Subject: Re: cory doral catfish
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 41914	From: jan1213@aol.com	Date: 7/11/2009
Subject: Re: cory doral catfish
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 41915	From: jan1213@aol.com	Date: 7/11/2009
Subject: Re: cory doral catfish
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 41916	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 7/11/2009
Subject: Re: cory doral catfish
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 41917	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 7/11/2009
Subject: Re: Gosh, I forgot to ask something important, LOL
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 41918	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 7/11/2009
Subject: Re: Gosh, I forgot to ask something important, LOL
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 41919	From: Lisa	Date: 7/12/2009
Subject: Question about catfish
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 41920	From: Lisa	Date: 7/12/2009
Subject: Tank Maintenance
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 41921	From: grdnfan243@aol.com	Date: 7/12/2009
Subject: Re: Question about catfish
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 41922	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 7/12/2009
Subject: Re: Question about catfish
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 41923	From: Jim Pat.	Date: 7/12/2009
Subject: Re: Tank Maintenance
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 41924	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 7/12/2009
Subject: Re: Tank Maintenance
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 41925	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 7/12/2009
Subject: Re: Question about catfish
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 41926	From: grdnfan243@aol.com	Date: 7/12/2009
Subject: Re: Question about catfish
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 41927	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 7/12/2009
Subject: Re: Tank Maintenance
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 41928	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 7/12/2009
Subject: Re: Question about catfish
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 41929	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 7/12/2009
Subject: Re: Tank Maintenance
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 41930	From: grdnfan243@aol.com	Date: 7/12/2009
Subject: Re: Question about catfish
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 41931	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 7/12/2009
Subject: Re: Tank Maintenance
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 41932	From: bill 1433	Date: 7/12/2009
Subject: Re: Tank Maintenance
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 41933	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 7/12/2009
Subject: Re: Tank Maintenance
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 41934	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 7/12/2009
Subject: Re: Question about catfish
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 41935	From: grdnfan243@aol.com	Date: 7/12/2009
Subject: Re: Question about catfish
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 41936	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 7/12/2009
Subject: Re: Tank Maintenance
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 41937	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 7/12/2009
Subject: Aquarium Trash Bags
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 41938	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 7/12/2009
Subject: Re: Question about catfish
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 41939	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 7/12/2009
Subject: Re: Question about catfish
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 41940	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 7/12/2009
Subject: Re: Tank Maintenance
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 41941	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 7/12/2009
Subject: Re: Question about catfish
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 41942	From: Gwydryn@aol.com	Date: 7/12/2009
Subject: Re: Question about catfish
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 41943	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 7/12/2009
Subject: Re: Question about catfish
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 41944	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 7/12/2009
Subject: Re: Tank Maintenance
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 41945	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 7/12/2009
Subject: Re: Aquarium Trash Bags
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 41946	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 7/12/2009
Subject: Re: Question about catfish
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 41947	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 7/12/2009
Subject: Close up's of my snails
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 41948	From: grdnfan243@aol.com	Date: 7/12/2009
Subject: Re: Question about catfish
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 41949	From: grdnfan243@aol.com	Date: 7/12/2009
Subject: Re: Question about catfish
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 41950	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 7/12/2009
Subject: Re: Question about catfish
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 41951	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 7/12/2009
Subject: Re: Question about catfish
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 41952	From: grdnfan243@aol.com	Date: 7/12/2009
Subject: Re: Question about catfish
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 41953	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 7/12/2009
Subject: Re: Question about catfish
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 41954	From: grdnfan243@aol.com	Date: 7/12/2009
Subject: Re: Question about catfish
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 41955	From: Menagerie_Manager	Date: 7/12/2009
Subject: Re: Tank Maintenance
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 41956	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 7/12/2009
Subject: Re: Tank Maintenance
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 41957	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 7/12/2009
Subject: Guppy (naja) grass
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 41958	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 7/12/2009
Subject: Re: Tank Maintenance
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 41959	From: Shirley Reichard	Date: 7/12/2009
Subject: Re: catfish
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 41960	From: caroline	Date: 7/12/2009
Subject: Re: Tank Maintenance
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 41961	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 7/12/2009
Subject: Re: Tank Maintenance
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 41962	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 7/12/2009
Subject: Re: Tank Maintenance
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 41963	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 7/12/2009
Subject: Re: Tank Maintenance
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 41964	From: Harl Myers	Date: 7/12/2009
Subject: Re: Snails again
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 41965	From: pam andress	Date: 7/12/2009
Subject: Re: Tank Maintenance(Platties)
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 41966	From: Raymond Wetzel	Date: 7/12/2009
Subject: Re: Tank Maintenance
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 41967	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 7/12/2009
Subject: Re: Snails again
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 41968	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 7/12/2009
Subject: Re: Tank Maintenance(Platties)
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 41969	From: Lisa Lawless	Date: 7/12/2009
Subject: Re; tank maintenance
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 41970	From: pam andress	Date: 7/12/2009
Subject: Re: Tank Maintenance(Platties)
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 41971	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 7/12/2009
Subject: Re: Tank Maintenance(Platties)
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 41972	From: bill 1433	Date: 7/12/2009
Subject: Re: Tank Maintenance
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 41973	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 7/12/2009
Subject: Re: Tank Maintenance
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 41974	From: harry perry	Date: 7/12/2009
Subject: Interest in Aquascaping
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 41975	From: harry perry	Date: 7/12/2009
Subject: Re: Interest in Aquascaping/The chart
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 41976	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 7/12/2009
Subject: train Crash Distracts Aquarium Visitors
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 41977	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 7/12/2009
Subject: Re: Aquarium Trash Bags
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 41978	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 7/12/2009
Subject: Re: Tank Maintenance
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 41979	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 7/12/2009
Subject: Re: Tank Maintenance
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 41980	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 7/12/2009
Subject: Re: catfish
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 41981	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 7/12/2009
Subject: Re: Guppy (naja) grass
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 41982	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 7/12/2009
Subject: Re: Tank Maintenance(Platties)
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 41983	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 7/12/2009
Subject: Re: Tank Maintenance
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 41984	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 7/12/2009
Subject: Re: Re; tank maintenance
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 41985	From: pam andress	Date: 7/12/2009
Subject: Re: Tank Maintenance(Platties)
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 41986	From: Lisa	Date: 7/13/2009
Subject: Question about feeding green veggies
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 41987	From: Raymond Wetzel	Date: 7/13/2009
Subject: Re: Tank Maintenance
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 41988	From: Raymond Wetzel	Date: 7/13/2009
Subject: Re: Tank Maintenance
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 41989	From: Raymond Wetzel	Date: 7/13/2009
Subject: Re: Tank Maintenance
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 41990	From: anallafamily.2001	Date: 7/13/2009
Subject: All angels died...
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 41991	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 7/13/2009
Subject: Re: All angels died...
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 41992	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 7/13/2009
Subject: Re: Question about feeding green veggies
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 41993	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 7/13/2009
Subject: Re: All angels died...
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 41994	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 7/13/2009
Subject: Amber from Alaska
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 41995	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 7/13/2009
Subject: Re: Amber from Alaska
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 41996	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 7/13/2009
Subject: Re: Amber from Alaska
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 41997	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 7/13/2009
Subject: Re: Amber from Alaska
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 41998	From: Shirley Reichard	Date: 7/13/2009
Subject: Re: catfish
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 41999	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 7/13/2009
Subject: Re: catfish
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 42000	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 7/13/2009
Subject: Re: Amber from Alaska
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 42001	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 7/13/2009
Subject: Re: Tank Maintenance(Platties)
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 42002	From: Raymond Wetzel	Date: 7/13/2009
Subject: Re: All angels died...
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 42003	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 7/13/2009
Subject: Re: All angels died...
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 42004	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 7/13/2009
Subject: Re: Tank Maintenance
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 42005	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 7/13/2009
Subject: Re: Tank Maintenance
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 42006	From: Joellen & Kevin Analla	Date: 7/13/2009
Subject: Re: All angels died...
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 42007	From: pam andress	Date: 7/13/2009
Subject: Re: Tank Maintenance(Platties)
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 42008	From: Donna Ransome	Date: 7/13/2009
Subject: Re: All angels died...
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 42009	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 7/13/2009
Subject: Re: All angels died...
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 42010	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 7/13/2009
Subject: Re: Tank Maintenance(Platties)
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 42011	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 7/13/2009
Subject: Re: All angels died...
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 42012	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 7/13/2009
Subject: Help reading the GH and KH instructions for API
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 42013	From: Lisa Lawless	Date: 7/13/2009
Subject: (no subject)
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 42014	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 7/13/2009
Subject: Re: All angels died...
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 42015	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 7/13/2009
Subject: Re: All angels died...
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 42016	From: Dora Smith	Date: 7/13/2009
Subject: Re: Help reading the GH and KH instructions for API
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 42017	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 7/13/2009
Subject: Re: Help reading the GH and KH instructions for API
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 42018	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 7/13/2009
Subject: Re: Tank Maintenance
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 42019	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 7/13/2009
Subject: Re: (unknown)
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 42020	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 7/13/2009
Subject: Re: All angels died...
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 42021	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 7/13/2009
Subject: Re: Help reading the GH and KH instructions for API
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 42022	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 7/13/2009
Subject: Re: Help reading the GH and KH instructions for API
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 42023	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 7/13/2009
Subject: Re: Help reading the GH and KH instructions for API
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 42024	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 7/13/2009
Subject: Re: Help reading the GH and KH instructions for API
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 42025	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 7/13/2009
Subject: Re: All angels died...
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 42026	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 7/13/2009
Subject: Re: Help reading the GH and KH instructions for API
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 42027	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 7/13/2009
Subject: Re: Help reading the GH and KH instructions for API
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 42028	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 7/13/2009
Subject: Re: MORE N'Awlins events coming up soon (was: All angels died...)
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 42029	From: Jasmine	Date: 7/14/2009
Subject: Silver angle laid eggs
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 42030	From: Jim Pat.	Date: 7/14/2009
Subject: What is "Grouply "?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 42031	From: bill 1433	Date: 7/14/2009
Subject: Re: What is "Grouply "?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 42032	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 7/14/2009
Subject: Re: Silver angle laid eggs
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 42033	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 7/14/2009
Subject: Re: What is "Grouply "?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 42034	From: bill 1433	Date: 7/14/2009
Subject: Re: What is "Grouply "?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 42035	From: jan1213@aol.com	Date: 7/14/2009
Subject: Re: What is "Grouply "?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 42036	From: klf62972	Date: 7/14/2009
Subject: Newbie.... Kinda
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 42037	From: Jpateson@aol.com	Date: 7/14/2009
Subject: Re: What is "Grouply "?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 42038	From: Dave H.	Date: 7/14/2009
Subject: What is a Grouply? ATTN: JIM
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 42039	From: Jpateson@aol.com	Date: 7/14/2009
Subject: Re: What is "Grouply "?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 42040	From: Dave H.	Date: 7/14/2009
Subject: Re: What is "Grouply "?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 42041	From: Eric Roberts	Date: 7/14/2009
Subject: Re: What is "Grouply "?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 42042	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 7/14/2009
Subject: Re: Newbie.... Kinda
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 42043	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 7/14/2009
Subject: Re: What is "Grouply "?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 42044	From: pam andress	Date: 7/14/2009
Subject: Re: Tank Maintenance(Platties)
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 42045	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 7/14/2009
Subject: Re: What is "Grouply "?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 42046	From: biG poppa	Date: 7/14/2009
Subject: Re: All angels died...
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 42047	From: pam andress	Date: 7/14/2009
Subject: Re: Newbie.... Kinda
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 42048	From: klf62972	Date: 7/14/2009
Subject: Re: Newbie.... Kinda
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 42049	From: Gail	Date: 7/14/2009
Subject: Re: Question about catfish
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 42050	From: Jpateson@aol.com	Date: 7/14/2009
Subject: Re: What is "Grouply "?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 42051	From: biG poppa	Date: 7/14/2009
Subject: Re: What is "Grouply "?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 42052	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 7/14/2009
Subject: Re: Newbie.... Kinda
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 42053	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 7/14/2009
Subject: Re: Question about catfish
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 42054	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 7/14/2009
Subject: In case Pam doesn't get back to me in time.
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 42055	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 7/14/2009
Subject: Speaking of pleco's
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 42056	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 7/14/2009
Subject: Speaking of Pleco's
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 42057	From: biG poppa	Date: 7/14/2009
Subject: Re: In case Pam doesn't get back to me in time.
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 42058	From: bill 1433	Date: 7/14/2009
Subject: Re: Speaking of pleco's And Bill's Questions----i hope?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 42059	From: biG poppa	Date: 7/14/2009
Subject: Re: Speaking of pleco's And Bill's Questions----i hope?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 42060	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 7/14/2009
Subject: Re: In case Pam doesn't get back to me in time.
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 42061	From: biG poppa	Date: 7/14/2009
Subject: Re: In case Pam doesn't get back to me in time.
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 42062	From: bill 1433	Date: 7/14/2009
Subject: Re: In case Pam doesn't get back to me in time.
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 42063	From: Gwydryn@aol.com	Date: 7/14/2009
Subject: Re: In case Pam doesn't get back to me in time.
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 42064	From: pam andress	Date: 7/14/2009
Subject: Re: Newbie.... Kinda
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 42065	From: pam andress	Date: 7/14/2009
Subject: Re: Speaking of pleco's
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 42066	From: pam andress	Date: 7/14/2009
Subject: Re: In case Pam doesn't get back to me in time.
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 42067	From: Raymond Wetzel	Date: 7/14/2009
Subject: Re: Tank Maintenance
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 42068	From: jasmine swann	Date: 7/14/2009
Subject: Re: Silver angle laid eggs
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 42069	From: Raymond Wetzel	Date: 7/14/2009
Subject: Re: Silver angle laid eggs
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 42070	From: Gilbert	Date: 7/14/2009
Subject: Re: What is "Grouply "?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 42071	From: harry perry	Date: 7/14/2009
Subject: Re: What is "Grouply "?/Gilbert
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 42072	From: Jasmine	Date: 7/14/2009
Subject: Re: Silver angle laid eggs
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 42073	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 7/14/2009
Subject: Re: Tank Maintenance
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 42074	From: Troy	Date: 7/14/2009
Subject: Re: Tank Maintenance
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 42075	From: Dora Smith	Date: 7/14/2009
Subject: Re: Help reading the GH and KH instructions for API
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 42076	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 7/14/2009
Subject: Re: In case Pam doesn't get back to me in time.
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 42077	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 7/14/2009
Subject: Re: In case Pam doesn't get back to me in time.
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 42078	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 7/14/2009
Subject: Re: In case Pam doesn't get back to me in time.
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 42079	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 7/14/2009
Subject: Re: Newbie.... Kinda
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 42080	From: pam andress	Date: 7/14/2009
Subject: Re: In case Pam doesn't get back to me in time.
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 42081	From: Troy	Date: 7/14/2009
Subject: Re: What is "Grouply "?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 42082	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 7/14/2009
Subject: Re: In case Pam doesn't get back to me in time.
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 42083	From: Lisa	Date: 7/15/2009
Subject: Problematic male swordtail
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 42084	From: Lisa	Date: 7/15/2009
Subject: Plant food
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 42085	From: Raymond Wetzel	Date: 7/15/2009
Subject: Re: Problematic male swordtail
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 42086	From: Raymond Wetzel	Date: 7/15/2009
Subject: Re: Plant food
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 42087	From: Deenerz@aol.com	Date: 7/15/2009
Subject: Re: Tank Maintenance
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 42088	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 7/15/2009
Subject: Re: Plant food
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 42089	From: Raymond Wetzel	Date: 7/15/2009
Subject: Re: Plant food
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 42090	From: pam andress	Date: 7/15/2009
Subject: Re: In case Pam doesn't get back to me in time.
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 42091	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 7/15/2009
Subject: Re: Plant food
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 42092	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 7/15/2009
Subject: Re: Plant food
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 42093	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 7/15/2009
Subject: Re: Tank Maintenance
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 42094	From: Beth Brownell	Date: 7/15/2009
Subject: I invited a friend to join the group.
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 42095	From: Lisa Lawless	Date: 7/15/2009
Subject: re; Problematic swordtail
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 42096	From: Lisa Lawless	Date: 7/15/2009
Subject: re; Plant food
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 42097	From: Byron	Date: 7/15/2009
Subject: Re: Plant food
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 42098	From: Natalie Beacom	Date: 7/15/2009
Subject: Newbie here
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 42099	From: biG poppa	Date: 7/15/2009
Subject: Re: Newbie here
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 42100	From: Natalie Beacom	Date: 7/15/2009
Subject: Re: Newbie here
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 42101	From: biG poppa	Date: 7/15/2009
Subject: Re: Newbie here
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 42102	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 7/15/2009
Subject: Re: re; Problematic swordtail
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 42103	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 7/15/2009
Subject: Re: Newbie here
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 42104	From: Lisa	Date: 7/15/2009
Subject: Re: re; Problematic swordtail
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 42105	From: Natalie Beacom	Date: 7/15/2009
Subject: Re: Newbie here
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 42106	From: Natalie Beacom	Date: 7/15/2009
Subject: Re: Newbie here
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 42107	From: harry perry	Date: 7/15/2009
Subject: Re: Newbie here/Natalie
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 42108	From: Natalie Beacom	Date: 7/15/2009
Subject: Re: Newbie here/Natalie
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 42109	From: Lisa	Date: 7/16/2009
Subject: Another question about feeding green veggies
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 42110	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 7/16/2009
Subject: Re: Another question about feeding green veggies
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 42111	From: bill 1433	Date: 7/16/2009
Subject: Re: Another question about feeding green veggies
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 42112	From: Menagerie_Manager	Date: 7/16/2009
Subject: Re: Another question about feeding green veggies
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 42113	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 7/16/2009
Subject: Re: In case Pam doesn't get back to me in time.
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 42114	From: sandi turner	Date: 7/16/2009
Subject: Re: Another question about feeding green veggies
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 42115	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 7/16/2009
Subject: Re: In case Pam doesn't get back to me in time.
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 42116	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 7/16/2009
Subject: Re: Another question about feeding green veggies
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 42117	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 7/16/2009
Subject: Re: In case Pam doesn't get back to me in time.
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 42118	From: Gail	Date: 7/16/2009
Subject: Re: Another question about feeding green veggies
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 42119	From: Shirley Reichard	Date: 7/16/2009
Subject: Aquawood?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 42120	From: aaron102272	Date: 7/16/2009
Subject: "feeding green veggies"
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 42121	From: aaron102272	Date: 7/16/2009
Subject: Re: Aquawood?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 42122	From: Gwydryn@aol.com	Date: 7/16/2009
Subject: Re: Another question about feeding green veggies
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 42123	From: Lisa Lawless	Date: 7/16/2009
Subject: Re: Another question about feeding green veggies
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 42125	From: Donna Ransome	Date: 7/16/2009
Subject: Re: Aquawood?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 42126	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 7/16/2009
Subject: Good thing I don't have 500 laying around in spare cash.
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 42127	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 7/16/2009
Subject: Re: Aquawood?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 42128	From: biG poppa	Date: 7/16/2009
Subject: Re: Good thing I don't have 500 laying around in spare cash.
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 42129	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 7/16/2009
Subject: Re: Good thing I don't have 500 laying around in spare cash.
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 42130	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 7/16/2009
Subject: Re: In case Pam doesn't get back to me in time.
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 42131	From: toddswoman496861@aim.com	Date: 7/16/2009
Subject: Re: Another question about feeding green veggies
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 42132	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 7/16/2009
Subject: Re: Another question about feeding green veggies
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 42133	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 7/16/2009
Subject: Re: Aquawood?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 42134	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 7/16/2009
Subject: Re: Aquawood?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 42135	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 7/16/2009
Subject: Re: Another question about feeding green veggies
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 42136	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 7/16/2009
Subject: Re: Good thing I don't have 500 laying around in spare cash.
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 42137	From: pam andress	Date: 7/16/2009
Subject: Re: In case Pam doesn't get back to me in time.
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 42138	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 7/16/2009
Subject: Re: In case Pam doesn't get back to me in time.
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 42139	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 7/16/2009
Subject: Re: Good thing I don't have 500 laying around in spare cash.
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 42140	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 7/16/2009
Subject: Re: In case Pam doesn't get back to me in time.
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 42141	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 7/16/2009
Subject: Re: In case Pam doesn't get back to me in time.
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 42142	From: Lisa	Date: 7/16/2009
Subject: Re: Another question about feeding green veggies
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 42143	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 7/16/2009
Subject: Re: Another question about feeding green veggies
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 42144	From: aaron_loves_beautiful_blondes	Date: 7/17/2009
Subject: Natalie (was ~ Re: Newbie here)
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 42145	From: Byron	Date: 7/17/2009
Subject: Re: re; Plant food
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 42146	From: Natalie Beacom	Date: 7/17/2009
Subject: Natalie (was ~ Re: Newbie here)
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 42147	From: biG poppa	Date: 7/17/2009
Subject: Re: Natalie (was ~ Re: Newbie here)
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 42148	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 7/17/2009
Subject: Re: Natalie (was ~ Re: Newbie here)
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 42149	From: pam andress	Date: 7/17/2009
Subject: Re: In case Pam doesn't get back to me in time.
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 42150	From: biG poppa	Date: 7/17/2009
Subject: Re: Natalie (was ~ Re: Newbie here)
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 42151	From: biG poppa	Date: 7/17/2009
Subject: Re: Good thing I don't have 500 laying around in spare cash.
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 42152	From: Gwydryn@aol.com	Date: 7/17/2009
Subject: Re: Natalie (was ~ Re: Newbie here)
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 42153	From: aaron_loves_beautiful_blondes	Date: 7/17/2009
Subject: Alligator (was ~ Re: Natalie/Newbie here)
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 42154	From: Natalie Beacom	Date: 7/17/2009
Subject: Alligator
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 42155	From: Natalie Beacom	Date: 7/17/2009
Subject: Alligator
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 42156	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 7/17/2009
Subject: Re: Alligator
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 42157	From: biG poppa	Date: 7/17/2009
Subject: Re: Alligator
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 42158	From: Gail	Date: 7/17/2009
Subject: Re: Good thing I don't have 500 laying around in spare cash.
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 42159	From: Natalie Beacom	Date: 7/17/2009
Subject: Re: Alligator
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 42160	From: biG poppa	Date: 7/17/2009
Subject: Re: Good thing I don't have 500 laying around in spare cash.
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 42161	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 7/17/2009
Subject: Re: Good thing I don't have 500 laying around in spare cash.
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 42162	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 7/17/2009
Subject: Re: Good thing I don't have 500 laying around in spare cash.
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 42163	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 7/18/2009
Subject: Re: Good thing I don't have 500 laying around in spare cash.
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 42164	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 7/18/2009
Subject: Baby Cuttlefish To Be Cuddled By Fishkeepers at Tynemouth's Blue Ree
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 42165	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 7/18/2009
Subject: Telephoto Lens Tips For Aquarium Digital Photography « pentax opt
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 42166	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 7/18/2009
Subject: Re: Good thing I don't have 500 laying around in spare cash.
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 42167	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 7/18/2009
Subject: What do baby cherry shrimp look like?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 42168	From: bill 1433	Date: 7/18/2009
Subject: Re: Good thing I don't have 500 laying around in spare cash.
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 42169	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 7/18/2009
Subject: Re: Good thing I don't have 500 laying around in spare cash.
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 42170	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 7/18/2009
Subject: Re: What do baby cherry shrimp look like?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 42171	From: pam andress	Date: 7/18/2009
Subject: Re: What do baby cherry shrimp look like?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 42172	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 7/18/2009
Subject: Re: What do baby cherry shrimp look like?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 42173	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 7/18/2009
Subject: Re: Good thing I don't have 500 laying around in spare cash.
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 42174	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 7/18/2009
Subject: Re: Good thing I don't have 500 laying around in spare cash.
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 42175	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 7/18/2009
Subject: Re: Good thing I don't have 500 laying around in spare cash.
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 42176	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 7/18/2009
Subject: Re: Good thing I don't have 500 laying around in spare cash.
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 42177	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 7/18/2009
Subject: Re: Good thing I don't have 500 laying around in spare cash.
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 42178	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 7/18/2009
Subject: Aponogeton bulbs doing well
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 42179	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 7/18/2009
Subject: Re: What do baby cherry shrimp look like?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 42180	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 7/18/2009
Subject: Male or Female?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 42181	From: Menagerie_Manager	Date: 7/19/2009
Subject: Re: Good thing I don't have 500 laying around in spare cash.
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 42182	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 7/19/2009
Subject: Re: What do baby cherry shrimp look like?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 42183	From: Donna Ransome	Date: 7/19/2009
Subject: Fishless Cycle: How Much Ammonia?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 42184	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 7/19/2009
Subject: Re: Fishless Cycle: How Much Ammonia?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 42185	From: William	Date: 7/19/2009
Subject: Re: Fishless Cycle: How Much Ammonia?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 42186	From: Donna Ransome	Date: 7/19/2009
Subject: Re: Fishless Cycle: How Much Ammonia?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 42187	From: Donna Ransome	Date: 7/19/2009
Subject: Re: Fishless Cycle: How Much Ammonia?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 42188	From: pam andress	Date: 7/19/2009
Subject: Re: What do baby cherry shrimp look like?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 42189	From: pam andress	Date: 7/19/2009
Subject: Re: What do baby cherry shrimp look like?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 42190	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 7/19/2009
Subject: Re: What do baby cherry shrimp look like?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 42191	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 7/19/2009
Subject: Kuroshio Sea
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 42192	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 7/19/2009
Subject: Re: Kuroshio Sea
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 42193	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 7/19/2009
Subject: Re: Kuroshio Sea
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 42194	From: Lisa	Date: 7/19/2009
Subject: Looking for a betta
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 42195	From: Natalie Beacom	Date: 7/20/2009
Subject: Re: Kuroshio Sea
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 42196	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 7/20/2009
Subject: Fish Pics
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 42197	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 7/20/2009
Subject: Japanese fishermen brace for giant jellyfish - CNN.com
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 42198	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 7/20/2009
Subject: Re: Japanese fishermen brace for giant jellyfish - CNN.com
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 42199	From: bill 1433	Date: 7/21/2009
Subject: Mail Check?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 42200	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 7/21/2009
Subject: Re: Mail Check?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 42201	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 7/21/2009
Subject: Re: Mail Check?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 42202	From: bill 1433	Date: 7/21/2009
Subject: Re: Mail Check?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 42203	From: bill 1433	Date: 7/21/2009
Subject: Re: Mail Check?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 42204	From: nicurns@bellsouth.net	Date: 7/21/2009
Subject: Fighting Angels
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 42205	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 7/21/2009
Subject: Re: Mail Check?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 42206	From: bill 1433	Date: 7/21/2009
Subject: Re: Mail Check?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 42207	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 7/21/2009
Subject: Re: Fighting Angels
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 42208	From: Donna Ransome	Date: 7/21/2009
Subject: Re: Fighting Angels
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 42209	From: nicurns@bellsouth.net	Date: 7/21/2009
Subject: Re: Fighting Angels
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 42210	From: nicurns@bellsouth.net	Date: 7/21/2009
Subject: Re: Fighting Angels
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 42211	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 7/21/2009
Subject: Re: Fighting Angels
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 42212	From: Raymond Wetzel	Date: 7/22/2009
Subject: Re: Fighting Angels
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 42213	From: nicurns@bellsouth.net	Date: 7/22/2009
Subject: Re: Fighting Angels
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 42214	From: jett07002	Date: 7/22/2009
Subject: Re: Mail Check?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 42215	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 7/22/2009
Subject: RFIDNews | Chicago's Shedd Aquarium uses RFID for new exhibit
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 42216	From: Dax Gorham	Date: 7/22/2009
Subject: Re: Mail Check?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 42217	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 7/22/2009
Subject: Re: Mail Check?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 42218	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 7/22/2009
Subject: Re: Mail Check?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 42219	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 7/23/2009
Subject: Re: Mail Check?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 42220	From: terry	Date: 7/23/2009
Subject: Glad to be here.
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 42221	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 7/23/2009
Subject: Re: Mail Check?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 42222	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 7/23/2009
Subject: Re: Glad to be here.
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 42223	From: Marion Hogervorst	Date: 7/23/2009
Subject: Re: RFIDNews | Chicago's Shedd Aquarium uses RFID for new exhibit
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 42224	From: Lisa	Date: 7/23/2009
Subject: Dalation Mollies
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 42225	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 7/23/2009
Subject: Re: Dalation Mollies
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 42226	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 7/23/2009
Subject: yummy Downoi
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 42227	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 7/23/2009
Subject: Re: yummy Downoi
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 42228	From: nicurns@bellsouth.net	Date: 7/23/2009
Subject: Re: Dalation Mollies
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 42229	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 7/23/2009
Subject: Re: yummy Downoi
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 42230	From: Lisa Lawless	Date: 7/23/2009
Subject: Re; Dalmation mollies
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 42231	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 7/23/2009
Subject: Re: Re; Dalmation mollies
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 42232	From: biG poppa	Date: 7/23/2009
Subject: Re: Re; Dalmation mollies
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 42233	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 7/23/2009
Subject: Re: yummy Downoi
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 42234	From: Dora Smith	Date: 7/23/2009
Subject: Nathaniel the Fish prefers Ocean Nutrition betta pellets to Hikari
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 42235	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 7/23/2009
Subject: Re: yummy Downoi
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 42236	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 7/23/2009
Subject: Re: yummy Downoi
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 42237	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 7/23/2009
Subject: Re: yummy Downoi
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 42238	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 7/24/2009
Subject: Re: yummy Downoi
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 42239	From: Lisa	Date: 7/24/2009
Subject: Catfish age
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 42240	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 7/24/2009
Subject: Re: Catfish age
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 42241	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 7/24/2009
Subject: Re: Catfish age
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 42242	From: gail	Date: 7/24/2009
Subject: Snail behaviors
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 42243	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 7/24/2009
Subject: Re: Snail behaviors
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 42244	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 7/24/2009
Subject: Re: Snail behaviors
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 42245	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 7/24/2009
Subject: le sigh, le cloudiness
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 42246	From: Dora Smith	Date: 7/24/2009
Subject: Re: le sigh, le cloudiness
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 42247	From: Gail	Date: 7/24/2009
Subject: Re: Snail behaviors
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 42248	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 7/24/2009
Subject: Re: le sigh, le cloudiness
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 42249	From: biG poppa	Date: 7/24/2009
Subject: Re: le sigh, le cloudiness
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 42250	From: pam andress	Date: 7/24/2009
Subject: Re: Catfish age
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 42251	From: bill 1433	Date: 7/24/2009
Subject: Re: Catfish age
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 42252	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 7/24/2009
Subject: Re: Amber's bacterial bloom (was: Snail behaviors)
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 42253	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 7/24/2009
Subject: Re: Amber's bacterial bloom
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 42254	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 7/24/2009
Subject: Re: Catfish age
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 42255	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 7/24/2009
Subject: Re: le sigh, le cloudiness
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 42256	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 7/24/2009
Subject: Re: le sigh, le cloudiness
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 42257	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 7/24/2009
Subject: Re: le sigh, le cloudiness
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 42258	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 7/24/2009
Subject: Re: le sigh, le cloudiness
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 42259	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 7/24/2009
Subject: Re: le sigh, le cloudiness
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 42260	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 7/24/2009
Subject: Re: le sigh, le cloudiness
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 42261	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 7/24/2009
Subject: Re: le sigh, le cloudiness
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 42262	From: biG poppa	Date: 7/24/2009
Subject: Re: le sigh, le cloudiness
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 42263	From: Steve Biondi	Date: 7/24/2009
Subject: Sources for Rena4 Spraybar??
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 42264	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 7/24/2009
Subject: Re: Amber's bacterial bloom
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 42265	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 7/24/2009
Subject: Re: le sigh, le cloudiness
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 42266	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 7/24/2009
Subject: Re: le sigh, le cloudiness
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 42267	From: biG poppa	Date: 7/24/2009
Subject: Re: Amber's bacterial bloom
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 42268	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 7/24/2009
Subject: Re: Sources for Rena4 Spraybar??
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 42269	From: pam andress	Date: 7/24/2009
Subject: Re: Catfish age
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 42270	From: Dora Smith	Date: 7/24/2009
Subject: Nathaniel the Fish feels neglected
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 42271	From: Dora Smith	Date: 7/24/2009
Subject: Re: [Bulk] Re: [AquaticLife] le sigh, le cloudiness
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 42272	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 7/24/2009
Subject: Re: le sigh, le cloudiness
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 42273	From: pam andress	Date: 7/24/2009
Subject: Re: Nathaniel the Fish feels neglected
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 42274	From: toddswoman496861@aim.com	Date: 7/24/2009
Subject: Re: Pam
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 42275	From: Gwydryn@aol.com	Date: 7/24/2009
Subject: Re: Nathaniel the Fish feels neglected
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 42276	From: Dora Smith	Date: 7/24/2009
Subject: Re: Amber's bacterial bloom
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 42277	From: Dora Smith	Date: 7/24/2009
Subject: Re: Nathaniel the Fish feels neglected
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 42278	From: greychildren	Date: 7/25/2009
Subject: plants question
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 42279	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 7/25/2009
Subject: Re: plants question
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 42280	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 7/25/2009
Subject: Re: plants question
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 42281	From: rosette55@webtv.net	Date: 7/25/2009
Subject: Bio-Orbs
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 42282	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 7/25/2009
Subject: Re: Bio-Orbs
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 42283	From: harry perry	Date: 7/25/2009
Subject: Invasive species of Florida
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 42284	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 7/25/2009
Subject: Re: Nathaniel the Fish feels neglected
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 42285	From: biG poppa	Date: 7/25/2009
Subject: Re: Invasive species of Florida
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 42286	From: Menagerie_Manager	Date: 7/25/2009
Subject: 65G tank setup in SE Michigan spotted on eBay
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 42287	From: Deenerz@aol.com	Date: 7/25/2009
Subject: Re: Invasive species of Florida
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 42288	From: harry perry	Date: 7/25/2009
Subject: Re: Invasive species of Florida/Mike
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 42289	From: Lisa	Date: 7/26/2009
Subject: Filter pumps
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 42290	From: Deenerz@aol.com	Date: 7/26/2009
Subject: Re: Invasive species of Florida/Mike
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 42291	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 7/26/2009
Subject: Re: Filter pumps
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 42292	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 7/26/2009
Subject: Re: Invasive species of Florida
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 42293	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 7/26/2009
Subject: Re: 65G tank setup in SE Michigan spotted on eBay
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 42294	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 7/26/2009
Subject: Re: Filter pumps
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 42295	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 7/26/2009
Subject: Re: Invasive species of Florida/Mike
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 42296	From: chelseablue06	Date: 7/26/2009
Subject: Newbie
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 42297	From: Menagerie_Manager	Date: 7/26/2009
Subject: Re: 65G tank setup in SE Michigan spotted on eBay
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 42298	From: bill 1433	Date: 7/26/2009
Subject: Re: 65G tank setup in SE Michigan spotted on eBay
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 42299	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 7/26/2009
Subject: Re: 65G tank setup in SE Michigan spotted on eBay
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 42300	From: Menagerie_Manager	Date: 7/26/2009
Subject: Re: 65G tank setup in SE Michigan spotted on eBay
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 42301	From: harry perry	Date: 7/26/2009
Subject: biG papa, a source for free fish in Florida
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 42302	From: harry perry	Date: 7/26/2009
Subject: Re: Invasive species of Florida/Mike/Lenny
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 42303	From: harry perry	Date: 7/26/2009
Subject: Fw: [anubiasdesign] Re: Invasive species. Dumb and Dumber
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 42304	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 7/26/2009
Subject: Re: Newbie
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 42305	From: yofiguy	Date: 7/26/2009
Subject: filter pump
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 42306	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 7/26/2009
Subject: Re: 65G tank setup in SE Michigan spotted on eBay
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 42307	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 7/26/2009
Subject: Albino BN Pleco Close up pic
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 42308	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 7/26/2009
Subject: Re: 65G tank setup in SE Michigan spotted on eBay
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 42309	From: harry perry	Date: 7/26/2009
Subject: Re: A Close up pic/Amber, nice shot
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 42310	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 7/26/2009
Subject: Re: A Close up pic/Amber, nice shot
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 42311	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 7/26/2009
Subject: Re: Newbie
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 42312	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 7/26/2009
Subject: Re: Fw: [anubiasdesign] Re: Invasive species. Dumb and Dumber
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 42313	From: Courtland Jacob	Date: 7/26/2009
Subject: biocube
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 42314	From: pam andress	Date: 7/26/2009
Subject: Re: Albino BN Pleco Close up pic
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 42315	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 7/26/2009
Subject: Re: Albino BN Pleco Close up pic
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 42316	From: pam andress	Date: 7/26/2009
Subject: Re: Albino BN Pleco Close up pic
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 42317	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 7/26/2009
Subject: Re: Albino BN Pleco Close up pic
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 42318	From: pam andress	Date: 7/26/2009
Subject: Re: Albino BN Pleco Close up pic
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 42319	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 7/26/2009
Subject: Re: Albino BN Pleco Close up pic
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 42320	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 7/26/2009
Subject: Re: Albino BN Pleco Close up pic
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 42321	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 7/26/2009
Subject: Re: A Close up pic/Amber, nice shot
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 42322	From: harry perry	Date: 7/26/2009
Subject: Re: A Close up pic/Amber, nice shot/Lenny
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 42323	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 7/26/2009
Subject: Re: A Close up pic/Amber, nice shot
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 42324	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 7/26/2009
Subject: Re: A Close up pic/Amber, nice shot/Lenny
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 42325	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 7/26/2009
Subject: Re: Fw: [anubiasdesign] Re: Invasive species. Dumb and Dumber
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 42326	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 7/26/2009
Subject: Re: biocube
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 42327	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 7/26/2009
Subject: Re: Fw: [anubiasdesign] Re: Invasive species. Dumb and Dumber
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 42328	From: pam andress	Date: 7/26/2009
Subject: Re: Albino BN Pleco Close up pic
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 42329	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 7/26/2009
Subject: Re: A Close up pic/Amber, nice shot/Lenny
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 42330	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 7/26/2009
Subject: Re: Fw: [anubiasdesign] Re: Invasive species. Dumb and Dumber
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 42331	From: Menagerie_Manager	Date: 7/26/2009
Subject: Re: 65G tank setup in SE Michigan spotted on eBay
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 42332	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 7/26/2009
Subject: Re: A Close up pic/Amber, nice shot/Lenny
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 42333	From: harry perry	Date: 7/26/2009
Subject: Re: A Close up pic/Amber, nice shot/Lenny/Amber
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 42334	From: Deenerz@aol.com	Date: 7/26/2009
Subject: Re: biG papa, a source for free fish in Florida
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 42335	From: Deenerz@aol.com	Date: 7/26/2009
Subject: Re: Fw: [anubiasdesign] Re: Invasive species. Dumb and Dumber
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 42336	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 7/26/2009
Subject: Re: A Close up pic/Amber, nice shot/Lenny
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 42337	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 7/26/2009
Subject: Re: Albino BN Pleco Close up pic
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 42338	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 7/26/2009
Subject: Re: Newbie
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 42339	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 7/26/2009
Subject: Re: A Close up pic/Amber, nice shot/Lenny
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 42340	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 7/26/2009
Subject: Re: A Close up pic/Amber, nice shot/Lenny
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 42341	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 7/26/2009
Subject: Re: A Close up pic, more Pics of BN Pleco's
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 42342	From: nicurns@bellsouth.net	Date: 7/27/2009
Subject: Re: Albino BN Pleco Close up pic
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 42343	From: Courtland Jacob	Date: 7/27/2009
Subject: Re: biocube
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 42344	From: pam andress	Date: 7/27/2009
Subject: Re: Albino BN Pleco Close up pic
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 42345	From: rosette55@webtv.net	Date: 7/27/2009
Subject: biocube
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 42346	From: pam andress	Date: 7/27/2009
Subject: Re: Albino BN Pleco Close up pic
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 42347	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 7/27/2009
Subject: Re: Albino BN Pleco Close up pic
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 42348	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 7/27/2009
Subject: Re: Albino BN Pleco Close up pic
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 42349	From: nicurns@bellsouth.net	Date: 7/27/2009
Subject: Re: Albino BN Pleco Close up pic
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 42350	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 7/27/2009
Subject: Re: Albino BN Pleco Close up pic
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 42351	From: pam andress	Date: 7/27/2009
Subject: Re: Albino BN Pleco Close up pic
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 42352	From: toddswoman496861@aim.com	Date: 7/27/2009
Subject: Re: Albino BN Pleco Close up pic
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 42353	From: pam andress	Date: 7/27/2009
Subject: Re: Albino BN Pleco Close up pic
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 42354	From: aaron102272	Date: 7/27/2009
Subject: Re: Albino BN Pleco Close up pic
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 42355	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 7/28/2009
Subject: Re: Albino BN Pleco Close up pic
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 42356	From: toddswoman496861@aim.com	Date: 7/28/2009
Subject: Re: Albino BN Pleco Close up pic
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 42357	From: bill 1433	Date: 7/28/2009
Subject: Re: Albino BN Pleco Close up pic
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 42358	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 7/28/2009
Subject: Re: Albino BN Pleco Close up pic
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 42359	From: pam andress	Date: 7/28/2009
Subject: Re: Albino BN Pleco Close up pic
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 42360	From: nicurns@bellsouth.net	Date: 7/28/2009
Subject: Re: Albino BN Pleco Close up pic
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 42361	From: Gail	Date: 7/28/2009
Subject: Re: Snail behaviors
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 42362	From: pam andress	Date: 7/28/2009
Subject: Re: Albino BN Pleco Close up pic
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 42363	From: pam andress	Date: 7/28/2009
Subject: Re: Snail behaviors
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 42364	From: bill 1433	Date: 7/28/2009
Subject: Re: Albino BN Pleco Close up pic
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 42365	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 7/28/2009
Subject: Re: Snail behaviors
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 42366	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 7/28/2009
Subject: Re: Snail behaviors
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 42367	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 7/28/2009
Subject: Re: Snail behaviors
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 42368	From: pam andress	Date: 7/28/2009
Subject: Re: Snail behaviors
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 42369	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 7/28/2009
Subject: Re: Snail behaviors
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 42370	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 7/28/2009
Subject: Re: Snail behaviors
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 42371	From: Menagerie_Manager	Date: 7/28/2009
Subject: Re: 65G tank setup in SE Michigan spotted on eBay
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 42372	From: pam andress	Date: 7/28/2009
Subject: Re: Snail behaviors
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 42373	From: bill 1433	Date: 7/28/2009
Subject: Re: Snail behaviors
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 42374	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 7/28/2009
Subject: Re: Snail behaviors
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 42375	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 7/28/2009
Subject: Re: Snail behaviors
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 42376	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 7/28/2009
Subject: Re: Snail behaviors
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 42377	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 7/28/2009
Subject: Re: Snail behaviors
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 42378	From: Gail	Date: 7/28/2009
Subject: Re: Snail behaviors
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 42379	From: Gwydryn@aol.com	Date: 7/28/2009
Subject: Re: Snail behaviors
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 42380	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 7/28/2009
Subject: Re: Snail behaviors
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 42381	From: pam andress	Date: 7/28/2009
Subject: Re: Snail behaviors
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 42382	From: pam andress	Date: 7/28/2009
Subject: Re: Snail behaviors
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 42383	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 7/28/2009
Subject: Re: Snail behaviors
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 42384	From: pam andress	Date: 7/28/2009
Subject: Re: Snail behaviors
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 42385	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 7/28/2009
Subject: Re: Snail behaviors
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 42386	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 7/28/2009
Subject: Re: Snail behaviors
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 42387	From: pam andress	Date: 7/28/2009
Subject: Re: Snail behaviors
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 42388	From: pam andress	Date: 7/28/2009
Subject: Re: Snail behaviors
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 42389	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 7/28/2009
Subject: Re: Snail behaviors
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 42390	From: Lisa	Date: 7/29/2009
Subject: Proposed plan
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 42391	From: bill 1433	Date: 7/29/2009
Subject: Re: Snail behaviors
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 42392	From: bill 1433	Date: 7/29/2009
Subject: Re: Snail behaviors
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 42393	From: bill 1433	Date: 7/29/2009
Subject: Re: Proposed plan
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 42394	From: pam andress	Date: 7/29/2009
Subject: Re: Snail behaviors
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 42395	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 7/29/2009
Subject: Re: Proposed plan
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 42396	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 7/29/2009
Subject: Re: Proposed plan
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 42397	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 7/29/2009
Subject: Re: Proposed plan
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 42398	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 7/29/2009
Subject: Re: Proposed plan
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 42399	From: Courtland Jacob	Date: 7/29/2009
Subject: biocube
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 42400	From: Lisa	Date: 7/29/2009
Subject: Rams
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 42401	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 7/29/2009
Subject: Re: Rams
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 42402	From: Lisa	Date: 7/29/2009
Subject: Re: Proposed plan
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 42403	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 7/29/2009
Subject: Re: Proposed plan
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 42404	From: Lisa	Date: 7/29/2009
Subject: Re: Proposed plan
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 42405	From: Raymond Wetzel	Date: 7/30/2009
Subject: Re: Rams
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 42406	From: bill 1433	Date: 7/30/2009
Subject: Re: Rams
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 42407	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 7/30/2009
Subject: Re: Rams
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 42408	From: Byron	Date: 7/30/2009
Subject: Re: Rams
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 42409	From: greychildren	Date: 7/30/2009
Subject: Fish Parasites, or Just Scavengers?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 42410	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 7/30/2009
Subject: Re: Fish Parasites, or Just Scavengers?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 42411	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 7/30/2009
Subject: Naturalist aquarium offers glimpse of ocean's treasures | www.jamest
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 42412	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 7/30/2009
Subject: Missing Eye
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 42413	From: biG poppa	Date: 7/30/2009
Subject: Re: Fish Parasites, or Just Scavengers?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 42414	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 7/31/2009
Subject: Re: Fish Parasites, or Just Scavengers?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 42415	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 7/31/2009
Subject: Re: Missing Eye
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 42416	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 7/31/2009
Subject: Re: Missing Eye
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 42417	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 7/31/2009
Subject: Re: Missing Eye
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 42418	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 7/31/2009
Subject: Re: Missing Eye
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 42419	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 7/31/2009
Subject: Re: Missing Eye
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 42420	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 7/31/2009
Subject: Re: Missing Eye
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 42421	From: xdee86x	Date: 7/31/2009
Subject: Burundi Frontosa
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 42422	From: Natalie Beacom	Date: 7/31/2009
Subject: Re: Burundi Frontosa
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 42423	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 7/31/2009
Subject: Re: Missing Eye
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 42424	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 7/31/2009
Subject: Re: Burundi Frontosa
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 42425	From: Courtland Jacob	Date: 7/31/2009
Subject: cleaning tips
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 42426	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 7/31/2009
Subject: Re: cleaning tips
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 42427	From: Donna Ransome	Date: 7/31/2009
Subject: Re: cleaning tips
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 42428	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 7/31/2009
Subject: Re: cleaning tips
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 42429	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 7/31/2009
Subject: Re: Missing Eye
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 42430	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 7/31/2009
Subject: Re: Missing Eye
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 42431	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 7/31/2009
Subject: Snail love
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 42432	From: biG poppa	Date: 7/31/2009
Subject: Re: Snail love
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 42433	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 7/31/2009
Subject: Re: Snail love
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 42434	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 7/31/2009
Subject: Heat issues (in Alaska?)
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 42435	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 7/31/2009
Subject: Re: Heat issues (in Alaska?)
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 42436	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 7/31/2009
Subject: Re: Heat issues (in Alaska?)
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 42437	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 7/31/2009
Subject: Re: Heat issues (in Alaska?)
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 42438	From: pam andress	Date: 7/31/2009
Subject: Re: Heat issues (in Alaska?)
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 42439	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 7/31/2009
Subject: Re: Heat issues (in Alaska?)
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 42440	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 7/31/2009
Subject: Re: Heat issues (in Alaska?)
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 42441	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 7/31/2009
Subject: Re: Heat issues (in Alaska?)
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 42442	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 7/31/2009
Subject: Re: Heat issues (in Alaska?)
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 42443	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 8/1/2009
Subject: Re: Heat issues (in Alaska?)
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 42444	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 8/1/2009
Subject: Re: Heat issues (in Alaska?)
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 42445	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 8/1/2009
Subject: National Wetlands Inventory
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 42446	From: Raymond Wetzel	Date: 8/1/2009
Subject: Re: National Wetlands Inventory
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 42447	From: janis_chrystal	Date: 8/1/2009
Subject: corydoral catfish
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 42449	From: jan1213@aol.com	Date: 8/1/2009
Subject: Re: Check out my photos on Facebook
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 42450	From: Dora Smith	Date: 8/1/2009
Subject: Re: corydoral catfish
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 42451	From: xdee86x	Date: 8/1/2009
Subject: Re: corydoral catfish
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 42452	From: jan1213@aol.com	Date: 8/1/2009
Subject: Re: corydoral catfish
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 42453	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 8/1/2009
Subject: Re: corydoral catfish
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 42454	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 8/1/2009
Subject: Re: Check out my photos on Facebook
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 42455	From: Menagerie_Manager	Date: 8/1/2009
Subject: Re: Check out my photos on Facebook
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 42456	From: chris.2033	Date: 8/1/2009
Subject: oscar scratches on objects,will not eat and has hole in the head
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 42457	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 8/1/2009
Subject: Re: corydoral catfish
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 42458	From: Deenerz@aol.com	Date: 8/1/2009
Subject: Re: Burundi Frontosa
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 42459	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 8/1/2009
Subject: Re: oscar scratches on objects,will not eat and has hole in the head
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 42460	From: jan1213@aol.com	Date: 8/1/2009
Subject: Re: corydoral catfish
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 42461	From: jan1213@aol.com	Date: 8/1/2009
Subject: Re: Check out my photos on Facebook
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 42462	From: Dora Smith	Date: 8/1/2009
Subject: Re: Heat issues (in Alaska?)
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 42463	From: Dora Smith	Date: 8/1/2009
Subject: Re: Heat issues (in Alaska?)
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 42464	From: Dora Smith	Date: 8/1/2009
Subject: Re: Heat issues (in Alaska?)
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 42465	From: xdee86x	Date: 8/1/2009
Subject: Re: Burundi Frontosa
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 42466	From: Dora Smith	Date: 8/1/2009
Subject: Re: Heat issues (in Alaska?)
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 42467	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 8/1/2009
Subject: Re: Check out my photos on Facebook
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 42468	From: jan1213@aol.com	Date: 8/1/2009
Subject: Re: Check out my photos on Facebook
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 42469	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 8/1/2009
Subject: Re: National Wetlands Inventory
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 42470	From: Menagerie_Manager	Date: 8/1/2009
Subject: Re: Check out my photos on Facebook
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 42471	From: Dora Smith	Date: 8/1/2009
Subject: Re: corydoral catfish
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 42472	From: Dora Smith	Date: 8/1/2009
Subject: corydoral catfish
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 42473	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 8/1/2009
Subject: Re: corydoral catfish
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 42474	From: jan1213@aol.com	Date: 8/1/2009
Subject: Re: corydoral catfish
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 42475	From: Courtland Jacob	Date: 8/1/2009
Subject: Re: cleaning tips
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 42476	From: Courtland Jacob	Date: 8/1/2009
Subject: Re: cleaning tips
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 42477	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 8/2/2009
Subject: Re: corydoral catfish
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 42478	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 8/2/2009
Subject: Re: corydoral catfish
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 42479	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 8/2/2009
Subject: Re: corydoral catfish
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 42480	From: Dora Smith	Date: 8/2/2009
Subject: Re: [Bulk] Re: [AquaticLife] Re: corydoral catfish
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 42481	From: Dora Smith	Date: 8/2/2009
Subject: Re: [Bulk] RE: [AquaticLife] Re: corydoral catfish
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 42482	From: jan1213@aol.com	Date: 8/2/2009
Subject: Re: corydoral catfish
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 42483	From: Courtland Jacob	Date: 8/2/2009
Subject: water conditioners
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 42484	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 8/2/2009
Subject: Re: water conditioners
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 42485	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 8/2/2009
Subject: Re: water conditioners
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 42486	From: Dora Smith	Date: 8/2/2009
Subject: Re: water conditioners
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 42487	From: nicurns@bellsouth.net	Date: 8/2/2009
Subject: ???? Facebook post?????
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 42488	From: cat.rose	Date: 8/2/2009
Subject: Bloated Guppy
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 42489	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 8/2/2009
Subject: Re: ???? Facebook post?????
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 42490	From: Jim Pat.	Date: 8/3/2009
Subject: "Well" Water..........
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 42491	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 8/3/2009
Subject: Re: "Well" Water..........
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 42492	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 8/3/2009
Subject: Re: Bloated Guppy
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 42493	From: bill 1433	Date: 8/3/2009
Subject: Re: "Well" Water..........
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 42494	From: cat.rose	Date: 8/3/2009
Subject: Re: Bloated Guppy
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 42495	From: Donna Ransome	Date: 8/3/2009
Subject: Re: "Well" Water..........
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 42496	From: lioctopi1116	Date: 8/3/2009
Subject: Re: "Well" Water..........
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 42497	From: Dave	Date: 8/3/2009
Subject: Going on No mail!!
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 42498	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 8/3/2009
Subject: Re: Going on No mail!!
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 42499	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 8/3/2009
Subject: Re: Going on No mail!!
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 42500	From: cat.rose	Date: 8/4/2009
Subject: Re Re: Bloated Guppy (he died last night)
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 42501	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 8/4/2009
Subject: Re: Re Re: Bloated Guppy (he died last night)
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 42502	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 8/4/2009
Subject: Re: Re Re: Bloated Guppy (he died last night)
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 42503	From: cat.rose	Date: 8/4/2009
Subject: Re: "Well" Water..........
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 42504	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 8/4/2009
Subject: Re: Re Re: Bloated Guppy (he died last night)
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 42505	From: cat.rose	Date: 8/4/2009
Subject: Re Re: Bloated Guppy (he died last night)
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 42506	From: cat.rose	Date: 8/4/2009
Subject: Re Re: Bloated Guppy (he died last night)
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 42507	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 8/4/2009
Subject: Re: Re Re: Bloated Guppy (he died last night)
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 42508	From: caroline	Date: 8/4/2009
Subject: Re: Re Re: Bloated Guppy (he died last night)
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 42509	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 8/4/2009
Subject: Re: "Well" Water..........
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 42510	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 8/5/2009
Subject: Re: "Well" Water..........
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 42511	From: piabinha	Date: 8/5/2009
Subject: transparent knife fish
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 42512	From: gail	Date: 8/5/2009
Subject: Frontosa Cichlids
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 42513	From: Deenerz@aol.com	Date: 8/5/2009
Subject: Re: Frontosa Cichlids
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 42514	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 8/5/2009
Subject: Re: Frontosa Cichlids
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 42515	From: Donna Ransome	Date: 8/5/2009
Subject: Re: Frontosa Cichlids
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 42516	From: incantashia	Date: 8/5/2009
Subject: what is a single tail fin telescope goldfish called?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 42517	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 8/5/2009
Subject: Re: transparent knife fish
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 42518	From: Dora Smith	Date: 8/5/2009
Subject: Re: what is a single tail fin telescope goldfish called?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 42519	From: Lisa	Date: 8/5/2009
Subject: I'm getting my first house :)
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 42520	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 8/5/2009
Subject: Re: what is a single tail fin telescope goldfish called?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 42521	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 8/5/2009
Subject: Re: I'm getting my first house :)
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 42522	From: bill 1433	Date: 8/6/2009
Subject: Re: I'm getting my first house :)
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 42523	From: incantashia	Date: 8/6/2009
Subject: Re: what is a single tail fin telescope goldfish called?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 42524	From: Courtland Jacob	Date: 8/6/2009
Subject: Re: I'm getting my first house :)
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 42525	From: piabinha	Date: 8/6/2009
Subject: Re: transparent knife fish
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 42526	From: nicurns@bellsouth.net	Date: 8/6/2009
Subject: ??? Re: what is a single tail fin telescope goldfish called?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 42527	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 8/6/2009
Subject: Re: I'm getting my first house :)
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 42528	From: gail	Date: 8/6/2009
Subject: Bala shark mishap!!
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 42529	From: Gail	Date: 8/6/2009
Subject: Re: Frontosa Cichlids
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 42530	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 8/6/2009
Subject: Re: Bala shark mishap!!
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 42531	From: harry perry	Date: 8/6/2009
Subject: Re: Bala shark mishap!!/Gail
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 42532	From: Gail	Date: 8/6/2009
Subject: Re: Bala shark mishap!!/Gail
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 42533	From: harry perry	Date: 8/6/2009
Subject: Re: Bala shark mishap!!/Gail/again
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 42534	From: TOM JONES	Date: 8/6/2009
Subject: Re: I'm getting my first house :)
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 42535	From: LI Octopi	Date: 8/6/2009
Subject: Re: I'm getting my first house :)
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 42536	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 8/6/2009
Subject: Re: Bala shark mishap!!
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 42537	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 8/6/2009
Subject: Re: I'm getting my first house :)
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 42538	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 8/6/2009
Subject: Re: Bala shark mishap!!/Gail
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 42539	From: incantashia	Date: 8/6/2009
Subject: ??? Re: what is a single tail fin telescope goldfish called?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 42540	From: Lisa Lawless	Date: 8/7/2009
Subject: re; i'm getting my first house
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 42541	From: Gail	Date: 8/7/2009
Subject: Re: Bala shark mishap!!
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 42542	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 8/7/2009
Subject: Re: re; i'm getting my first house
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 42543	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 8/7/2009
Subject: Re: Bala shark mishap!!
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 42544	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 8/7/2009
Subject: Re: re; i'm getting my first house
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 42545	From: bill 1433	Date: 8/7/2009
Subject: Re: re; i'm getting my first house
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 42546	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 8/7/2009
Subject: Re: re; i'm getting my first house
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 42547	From: biG poppa	Date: 8/7/2009
Subject: Re: re; i'm getting my first house
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 42548	From: Gail	Date: 8/7/2009
Subject: Re: Bala shark mishap!!
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 42549	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 8/7/2009
Subject: Re: re; i'm getting my first house
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 42550	From: harry perry	Date: 8/7/2009
Subject: Re: Bala shark mishap!!/Gail
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 42551	From: biG poppa	Date: 8/7/2009
Subject: Re: Bala shark mishap!!/Gail
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 42552	From: biG poppa	Date: 8/7/2009
Subject: Re: re; i'm getting my first house
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 42553	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 8/7/2009
Subject: Re: re; i'm getting my first house
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 42554	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 8/7/2009
Subject: Re: re; i'm getting my first house
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 42555	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 8/7/2009
Subject: Re: re; i'm getting my first house
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 42556	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 8/7/2009
Subject: Re: Bala shark mishap!!
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 42557	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 8/7/2009
Subject: Re: Bala shark mishap!!/Gail
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 42558	From: Courtland Jacob	Date: 8/7/2009
Subject: penn plax canister filter
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 42559	From: bill 1433	Date: 8/7/2009
Subject: Re: re; i'm getting my first house
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 42560	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 8/7/2009
Subject: Re: penn plax canister filter
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 42561	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 8/7/2009
Subject: Re: re; i'm getting my first house
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 42562	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 8/7/2009
Subject: Snail re-growth?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 42563	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 8/7/2009
Subject: Re: penn plax canister filter
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 42564	From: Donna Ransome	Date: 8/7/2009
Subject: Re: re; i'm getting my first house
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 42565	From: Courtland Jacob	Date: 8/7/2009
Subject: Re: penn plax canister filter
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 42566	From: biG poppa	Date: 8/7/2009
Subject: Re: re; i'm getting my first house
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 42567	From: biG poppa	Date: 8/7/2009
Subject: Re: re; i'm getting my first house
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 42568	From: Courtland Jacob	Date: 8/7/2009
Subject: Re: penn plax canister filter
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 42569	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 8/7/2009
Subject: Re: penn plax canister filter
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 42570	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 8/7/2009
Subject: Re: penn plax canister filter
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 42571	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 8/7/2009
Subject: Re: Snail re-growth?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 42572	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 8/7/2009
Subject: Re: Snail re-growth?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 42573	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 8/7/2009
Subject: Re: penn plax canister filter
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 42574	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 8/7/2009
Subject: Re: penn plax canister filter
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 42575	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 8/7/2009
Subject: Re: penn plax canister filter
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 42576	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 8/7/2009
Subject: Re: penn plax canister filter
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 42577	From: Donna Ransome	Date: 8/8/2009
Subject: Re: penn plax canister filter
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 42578	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 8/8/2009
Subject: A Marine Logic Problem
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 42579	From: Raymond Wetzel	Date: 8/8/2009
Subject: Re: Bala shark mishap!!
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 42580	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 8/8/2009
Subject: Re: A Marine Logic Problem
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 42581	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 8/8/2009
Subject: Re: A Marine Logic Problem
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 42582	From: Raymond Wetzel	Date: 8/8/2009
Subject: Re: re; i'm getting my first house
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 42583	From: bill 1433	Date: 8/8/2009
Subject: Re: A Marine Logic Problem
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 42584	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 8/8/2009
Subject: SeaCamp
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 42585	From: Menagerie_Manager	Date: 8/8/2009
Subject: Honorary catfish gets a forever home ;-) OT
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 42586	From: David Keymel	Date: 8/8/2009
Subject: My Balloon RedEye Tetra has less fins than otherwise normal
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 42587	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 8/8/2009
Subject: Re: SeaCamp
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 42588	From: pam andress	Date: 8/8/2009
Subject: Re: Honorary catfish gets a forever home ;-) OT
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 42589	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 8/8/2009
Subject: GoldLenny's Blog - Fish Jokes and Cartoons page updated
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 42590	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 8/8/2009
Subject: Re: penn plax canister filter
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 42591	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 8/8/2009
Subject: Re: A Marine Logic Problem
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 42592	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 8/8/2009
Subject: Re: My Balloon RedEye Tetra has less fins than otherwise normal
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 42593	From: Dora Smith	Date: 8/8/2009
Subject: Re: Honorary catfish gets a forever home ;-) OT
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 42594	From: Menagerie_Manager	Date: 8/8/2009
Subject: Re: A Marine Logic Problem
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 42595	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 8/8/2009
Subject: Re: Honorary catfish gets a forever home ;-) OT
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 42596	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 8/8/2009
Subject: Re: A Marine Logic Problem
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 42597	From: Donna Ransome	Date: 8/8/2009
Subject: Re: penn plax canister filter
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 42598	From: jett07002	Date: 8/8/2009
Subject: Just a "financial thought"
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 42599	From: nicurns@bellsouth.net	Date: 8/8/2009
Subject: Re: Just a "financial thought"
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 42600	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 8/8/2009
Subject: Re: Just a "financial thought"
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 42601	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 8/8/2009
Subject: Re: A Marine Logic Problem
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 42602	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 8/8/2009
Subject: Re: Just a "financial thought"
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 42603	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 8/8/2009
Subject: Re: Just a "financial thought"
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 42604	From: o1bigtenor	Date: 8/8/2009
Subject: Re: Just a "financial thought"
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 42605	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 8/8/2009
Subject: Re: My Balloon RedEye Tetra has less fins than otherwise normal
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 42606	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 8/8/2009
Subject: Re: Just a "financial thought"
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 42607	From: Courtland Jacob	Date: 8/8/2009
Subject: Re: penn plax canister filter
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 42608	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 8/8/2009
Subject: Re: A Marine Logic Problem... now Cajun Logic
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 42609	From: Lisa Lawless	Date: 8/8/2009
Subject: re; I'm getting my first home
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 42610	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 8/9/2009
Subject: Re: Just a "financial thought"
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 42611	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 8/9/2009
Subject: Re: Just a "financial thought"
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 42612	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 8/9/2009
Subject: Re: re; I'm getting my first home
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 42613	From: Lisa Lawless	Date: 8/9/2009
Subject: re; i'm getting my first home
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 42614	From: Dora Smith	Date: 8/9/2009
Subject: Re: Just a "financial thought"
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 42615	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 8/9/2009
Subject: Re: re; I'm getting my first home
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 42616	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 8/9/2009
Subject: Re: Just a "financial thought"
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 42617	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 8/9/2009
Subject: Re: re; i'm getting my first home
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 42618	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 8/9/2009
Subject: Re: Just a "financial thought"
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 42619	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 8/9/2009
Subject: Re: Just a "financial thought"
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 42620	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 8/9/2009
Subject: U-G-L-Y, you ain't got no alibi... (or A Face Only A Mother Could Lo
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 42621	From: bill 1433	Date: 8/9/2009
Subject: Re: re; I'm getting my first home
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 42622	From: Donna Ransome	Date: 8/9/2009
Subject: Re: U-G-L-Y, you ain't got no alibi... (or A Face Only A Mother Coul
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 42623	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 8/9/2009
Subject: Re: U-G-L-Y, you ain't got no alibi... (or A Face Only A Mother Coul
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 42624	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 8/9/2009
Subject: Re: U-G-L-Y, you ain't got no alibi... (or A Face Only A Mother Coul
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 42625	From: Courtland Jacob	Date: 8/9/2009
Subject: stocking advice
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 42626	From: Menagerie_Manager	Date: 8/9/2009
Subject: Re: U-G-L-Y, you ain't got no alibi... (or A Face Only A Mother Coul
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 42627	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 8/9/2009
Subject: Re Re: Bloated Guppy (he died last night)
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 42628	From: Courtland Jacob	Date: 8/9/2009
Subject: Re: stocking advice
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 42629	From: Deenerz@aol.com	Date: 8/9/2009
Subject: Re: U-G-L-Y, you ain't got no alibi... (or A Face Only A Mother Coul
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 42630	From: Donna Ransome	Date: 8/9/2009
Subject: Re: stocking advice
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 42631	From: Courtland Jacob	Date: 8/9/2009
Subject: Re: stocking advice
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 42632	From: Dora Smith	Date: 8/9/2009
Subject: Re: [Bulk] RE: [AquaticLife] Just a "financial thought"
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 42633	From: Donna Ransome	Date: 8/9/2009
Subject: Re: stocking advice
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 42634	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 8/9/2009
Subject: Re: [Bulk] RE: [AquaticLife] Just a "financial thought"
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 42635	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 8/9/2009
Subject: New Version Released
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 42636	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 8/9/2009
Subject: Re: New Version Released
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 42637	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 8/9/2009
Subject: Re: New Version Released
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 42638	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 8/9/2009
Subject: Re: New Version Released
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 42639	From: Lisa Lawless	Date: 8/9/2009
Subject: re; I'm getting my first home
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 42640	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 8/10/2009
Subject: Re: re; I'm getting my first home
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 42641	From: Lisa	Date: 8/10/2009
Subject: Re: re; I'm getting my first home
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 42642	From: Marion Hogervorst	Date: 8/10/2009
Subject: Re: New Version Released
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 42643	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 8/10/2009
Subject: Re: re; I'm getting my first home
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 42644	From: Dora Smith	Date: 8/10/2009
Subject: Re: [Bulk] RE: [AquaticLife] New Version Released
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 42645	From: Courtland Jacob	Date: 8/10/2009
Subject: Re: stocking advice
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 42646	From: jett07002	Date: 8/10/2009
Subject: Re: New Version Released
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 42647	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 8/10/2009
Subject: Re: New Version Released
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 42648	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 8/10/2009
Subject: Re: re; I'm getting my first home
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 42649	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 8/10/2009
Subject: Re: New Version Released
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 42650	From: Donna Ransome	Date: 8/10/2009
Subject: Re: stocking advice
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 42651	From: Courtland Jacob	Date: 8/10/2009
Subject: Re: stocking advice
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 42652	From: jasmine swann	Date: 8/11/2009
Subject: GoldLenny's Blog - Fish Jokes and Cartoons page updated
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 42653	From: Carolyn Nagle	Date: 8/11/2009
Subject: Need help with leaking aquarium
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 42654	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 8/11/2009
Subject: Re: Need help with leaking aquarium
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 42655	From: ''Grey'' Geyerman	Date: 8/11/2009
Subject: Re: Need help with leaking aquarium
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 42656	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 8/11/2009
Subject: Re: Need help with leaking aquarium
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 42657	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 8/11/2009
Subject: Re: Need help with leaking aquarium
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 42658	From: Carolyn Nagle	Date: 8/11/2009
Subject: Re: Need help with leaking aquarium
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 42659	From: ''Grey'' Geyerman	Date: 8/11/2009
Subject: Re: Need help with leaking aquarium
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 42660	From: Courtland Jacob	Date: 8/11/2009
Subject: shells
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 42661	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 8/11/2009
Subject: Re: Need help with leaking aquarium
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 42662	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 8/11/2009
Subject: Re: Need help with leaking aquarium
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 42663	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 8/11/2009
Subject: Re: shells
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 42664	From: Carolyn Nagle	Date: 8/11/2009
Subject: Re: Need help with leaking aquarium
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 42665	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 8/11/2009
Subject: Re: Need help with leaking aquarium
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 42666	From: Courtland Jacob	Date: 8/11/2009
Subject: Re: shells
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 42667	From: Carolyn Nagle	Date: 8/11/2009
Subject: Re: Need help with leaking aquarium
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 42668	From: caroline	Date: 8/11/2009
Subject: siamese fish
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 42669	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 8/11/2009
Subject: Re: shells
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 42670	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 8/11/2009
Subject: Re: Need help with leaking aquarium
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 42671	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 8/11/2009
Subject: Re: siamese fish
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 42672	From: Dora Smith	Date: 8/11/2009
Subject: Re: siamese fish
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 42673	From: caroline	Date: 8/11/2009
Subject: Re: siamese fish
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 42674	From: Courtland Jacob	Date: 8/11/2009
Subject: Re: shells
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 42675	From: ironsidem	Date: 8/11/2009
Subject: Re: siamese fish
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 42676	From: Gail	Date: 8/11/2009
Subject: Snail behavior - cont
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 42677	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 8/11/2009
Subject: Re: Snail behavior - cont
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 42678	From: sevenspringss@wmconnect.com	Date: 8/11/2009
Subject: Re: shells
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 42679	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 8/11/2009
Subject: Re: Snail behavior - cont
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 42680	From: Deenerz@aol.com	Date: 8/11/2009
Subject: Re: shells
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 42681	From: Deenerz@aol.com	Date: 8/11/2009
Subject: Re: shells
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 42682	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 8/11/2009
Subject: Re: Snail behavior - cont
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 42683	From: Donna Ransome	Date: 8/11/2009
Subject: Re: shells
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 42684	From: Donna Ransome	Date: 8/11/2009
Subject: Re: shells
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 42685	From: Donna Ransome	Date: 8/11/2009
Subject: Re: shells
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 42686	From: Donna Ransome	Date: 8/11/2009
Subject: Re: Snail behavior - cont
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 42687	From: Donna Ransome	Date: 8/11/2009
Subject: Re: shells
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 42688	From: Gail	Date: 8/12/2009
Subject: Re: Snail behavior - cont
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 42689	From: Gail	Date: 8/12/2009
Subject: Re: Snail behavior - cont
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 42690	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 8/12/2009
Subject: Re: Snail behavior - cont
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 42691	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 8/12/2009
Subject: Re: Snail behavior - cont
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 42692	From: Carolyn Nagle	Date: 8/12/2009
Subject: Good news (I think) on leaking tank
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 42693	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 8/12/2009
Subject: Re: Snail behavior - cont
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 42694	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 8/12/2009
Subject: Re: Snail behavior - cont
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 42695	From: Donna Ransome	Date: 8/12/2009
Subject: Re: Snail behavior - cont
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 42696	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 8/12/2009
Subject: Re: Snail behavior - cont
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 42697	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 8/12/2009
Subject: Re: Snail behavior - cont
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 42698	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 8/12/2009
Subject: Warning to those of you with mystery snails.
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 42699	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 8/12/2009
Subject: Re: Need a link you once gave out
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 42700	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 8/12/2009
Subject: Re: Need a link you once gave out
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 42701	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 8/12/2009
Subject: Re: Need a link you once gave out
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 42702	From: Muhamad Izham Gulam Ali	Date: 8/13/2009
Subject: Fw: Fresh Water Lobsters Training(Crayfish)
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 42703	From: caroline	Date: 8/13/2009
Subject: Re: siamese fish
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 42704	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 8/13/2009
Subject: Re: siamese fish
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 42705	From: Gail	Date: 8/13/2009
Subject: Re: Snail behavior - cont
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 42706	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 8/13/2009
Subject: Re: Snail behavior - cont
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 42707	From: Courtland Jacob	Date: 8/13/2009
Subject: Re: shells
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 42708	From: Gail	Date: 8/13/2009
Subject: Re: Snail behavior - cont
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 42709	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 8/13/2009
Subject: Re: Snail behavior - cont
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 42710	From: Chauncey	Date: 8/13/2009
Subject: Anemone behavior
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 42711	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 8/14/2009
Subject: Re: Anemone behavior
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 42712	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 8/14/2009
Subject: Re: Anemone behavior
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 42713	From: toddswoman496861@aim.com	Date: 8/14/2009
Subject: aquarium salt
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 42714	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 8/14/2009
Subject: Re: aquarium salt
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 42715	From: Deenerz@aol.com	Date: 8/14/2009
Subject: Re: aquarium salt
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 42716	From: toddswoman496861@aim.com	Date: 8/14/2009
Subject: Re: aquarium salt
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 42717	From: toddswoman496861@aim.com	Date: 8/14/2009
Subject: Re: aquarium salt
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 42718	From: toddswoman496861@aim.com	Date: 8/14/2009
Subject: Re: aquarium salt
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 42719	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 8/14/2009
Subject: Re: aquarium salt
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 42720	From: toddswoman496861@aim.com	Date: 8/14/2009
Subject: Re: aquarium salt
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 42721	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 8/14/2009
Subject: Re: aquarium salt
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 42722	From: nicurns@bellsouth.net	Date: 8/14/2009
Subject: Re: Anemone behavior
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 42723	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 8/14/2009
Subject: Re: aquarium salt
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 42724	From: toddswoman496861@aim.com	Date: 8/14/2009
Subject: Re: aquarium salt
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 42725	From: toddswoman496861@aim.com	Date: 8/14/2009
Subject: Re: aquarium salt
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 42726	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 8/14/2009
Subject: Re: aquarium salt
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 42727	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 8/14/2009
Subject: Re: aquarium salt
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 42728	From: toddswoman496861@aim.com	Date: 8/14/2009
Subject: Re: aquarium salt
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 42729	From: toddswoman496861@aim.com	Date: 8/14/2009
Subject: Re: aquarium salt
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 42730	From: Courtland Jacob	Date: 8/15/2009
Subject: tap water
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 42731	From: Byron	Date: 8/15/2009
Subject: Re: aquarium salt
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 42732	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 8/15/2009
Subject: Re: tap water
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 42733	From: Courtland Jacob	Date: 8/15/2009
Subject: Re: tap water
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 42734	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 8/15/2009
Subject: Re: tap water
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 42735	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 8/15/2009
Subject: Blue Impact: The New England Aquarium Video Tour
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 42736	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 8/15/2009
Subject: The New England Aquarium Blogs
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 42737	From: Troy	Date: 8/16/2009
Subject: Re: Blue Impact: The New England Aquarium Video Tour
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 42738	From: Leanna	Date: 8/16/2009
Subject: New Tank
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 42739	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 8/16/2009
Subject: Re: New Tank
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 42740	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 8/16/2009
Subject: Re: New Tank
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 42741	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 8/16/2009
Subject: Re: New Tank
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 42742	From: Leanna	Date: 8/16/2009
Subject: Re: New Tank
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 42743	From: Courtland Jacob	Date: 8/16/2009
Subject: Re: tap water
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 42744	From: Lisa	Date: 8/17/2009
Subject: My fish are dieing!
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 42745	From: Donna Ransome	Date: 8/17/2009
Subject: Re: New Tank
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 42746	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 8/17/2009
Subject: Re: My fish are dieing!
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 42747	From: Robb	Date: 8/17/2009
Subject: Water Test Kits.
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 42748	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 8/17/2009
Subject: Re: New Tank
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 42749	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 8/17/2009
Subject: Re: Water Test Kits.
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 42750	From: Courtland Jacob	Date: 8/17/2009
Subject: tetra safe start
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 42751	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 8/17/2009
Subject: Re: tetra safe start
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 42752	From: Deenerz@aol.com	Date: 8/17/2009
Subject: Re: New Tank
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 42753	From: Robb	Date: 8/17/2009
Subject: Re: Water Test Kits.
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 42754	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 8/17/2009
Subject: Re: Water Test Kits.
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 42755	From: Robb	Date: 8/17/2009
Subject: Re: Water Test Kits.
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 42756	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 8/17/2009
Subject: Re: Water Test Kits.
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 42757	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 8/17/2009
Subject: Re: Water Test Kits.
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 42758	From: Troy	Date: 8/17/2009
Subject: Will a dwarf gourami eat itself to death?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 42759	From: Lisa	Date: 8/17/2009
Subject: Re: My fish are dieing!
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 42760	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 8/17/2009
Subject: Re: Will a dwarf gourami eat itself to death?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 42761	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 8/17/2009
Subject: Re: My fish are dieing!
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 42762	From: Robb	Date: 8/17/2009
Subject: Re: Water Test Kits.
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 42763	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 8/17/2009
Subject: Re: Water Test Kits.
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 42764	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 8/17/2009
Subject: Re: My fish are dieing!
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 42765	From: Troy	Date: 8/17/2009
Subject: Re: Will a dwarf gourami eat itself to death?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 42766	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 8/17/2009
Subject: Re: My fish are dieing!
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 42767	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 8/17/2009
Subject: Re: Water Test Kits.
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 42768	From: Robb	Date: 8/17/2009
Subject: Re: Water Test Kits.
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 42769	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 8/17/2009
Subject: Re: Water Test Kits.
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 42770	From: Lisa	Date: 8/17/2009
Subject: Re: My fish are dieing!
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 42771	From: Courtland Jacob	Date: 8/17/2009
Subject: Re: tetra safe start
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 42772	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 8/17/2009
Subject: Re: tetra safe start
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 42773	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 8/17/2009
Subject: Re: My fish are dieing!
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 42774	From: Courtland Jacob	Date: 8/18/2009
Subject: Re: My fish are dieing!
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 42775	From: Courtland Jacob	Date: 8/18/2009
Subject: Re: My fish are dieing!
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 42776	From: Courtland Jacob	Date: 8/18/2009
Subject: Re: tetra safe start
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 42777	From: bill 1433	Date: 8/18/2009
Subject: Re: Will a dwarf gourami eat itself to death?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 42778	From: Dora Smith	Date: 8/18/2009
Subject: Re: My fish are dieing!
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 42779	From: Matthew O' Farrell	Date: 8/18/2009
Subject: Re: New Tank
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 42780	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 8/18/2009
Subject: Re: My fish are dieing!
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 42781	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 8/18/2009
Subject: Re: My fish are dieing!
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 42782	From: Courtland Jacob	Date: 8/18/2009
Subject: Re: My fish are dieing!
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 42783	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 8/18/2009
Subject: Re: My fish are dieing!
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 42784	From: Courtland Jacob	Date: 8/18/2009
Subject: Re: tetra safe start
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 42785	From: Lisa	Date: 8/18/2009
Subject: Re: My fish are dieing!
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 42786	From: Courtland Jacob	Date: 8/18/2009
Subject: Re: My fish are dieing!
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 42787	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 8/18/2009
Subject: Re: My fish are dieing!
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 42788	From: jules27au	Date: 8/18/2009
Subject: Suicide Fish..Not Suicide Blonde!
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 42789	From: Lisa	Date: 8/18/2009
Subject: Re: My fish are dieing!
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 42790	From: mosquitokr2002	Date: 8/18/2009
Subject: Re: Suicide Fish..Not Suicide Blonde!
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 42791	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 8/18/2009
Subject: Re: My fish are dieing!
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 42792	From: Raymond Wetzel	Date: 8/19/2009
Subject: Re: Suicide Fish..Not Suicide Blonde!
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 42793	From: Raymond Wetzel	Date: 8/19/2009
Subject: Re: Suicide Fish..Not Suicide Blonde!
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 42794	From: Gail	Date: 8/19/2009
Subject: Re: Suicide Fish..Not Suicide Blonde!
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 42795	From: bill 1433	Date: 8/19/2009
Subject: About Fish On Line?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 42796	From: Julie Roughley	Date: 8/19/2009
Subject: Re: Suicide Fish..Not Suicide Blonde!
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 42797	From: Robb	Date: 8/19/2009
Subject: Nitrite.
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 42798	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 8/19/2009
Subject: Re: Suicide Fish..Not Suicide Blonde!
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 42799	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 8/19/2009
Subject: Re: Nitrite.
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 42800	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 8/19/2009
Subject: Wow, dead snails make for a very icky looking tank
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 42801	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 8/19/2009
Subject: Re: Suicide Fish..Not Suicide Blonde!
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 42802	From: robbrouse	Date: 8/19/2009
Subject: Re: Nitrite.
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 42803	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 8/19/2009
Subject: Re: Nitrite.
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 42804	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 8/19/2009
Subject: Re: Nitrite.
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 42805	From: robbrouse	Date: 8/19/2009
Subject: Re: Nitrite.
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 42806	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 8/19/2009
Subject: Re: Nitrite.
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 42807	From: Julie Roughley	Date: 8/19/2009
Subject: Re: Suicide Fish..Not Suicide Blonde!
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 42808	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 8/19/2009
Subject: Re: Suicide Fish..Not Suicide Blonde!
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 42809	From: piercedarrow_107	Date: 8/20/2009
Subject: elos
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 42810	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 8/20/2009
Subject: Re: elos
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 42811	From: bruce cohen	Date: 8/20/2009
Subject: Re: elos
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 42812	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 8/20/2009
Subject: Observatory - Deep Sea Worms Release Glow-Bombs When Disturbed - NYT
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 42813	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 8/21/2009
Subject: 7 Most Amazing Aquariums Around The World
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 42814	From: clandestine662002	Date: 8/21/2009
Subject: Jellybean Parrots
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 42815	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 8/21/2009
Subject: Re: Jellybean Parrots
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 42816	From: biG poppa	Date: 8/21/2009
Subject: Re: Jellybean Parrots
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 42817	From: robbrouse	Date: 8/21/2009
Subject: Re: Nitrite.
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 42818	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 8/21/2009
Subject: Re: Nitrite.
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 42820	From: clandestine662002	Date: 8/21/2009
Subject: Re: Jellybean Parrots
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 42821	From: robbrouse	Date: 8/21/2009
Subject: Re: Nitrite.
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 42822	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 8/21/2009
Subject: Re: Jellybean Parrots
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 42823	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 8/21/2009
Subject: Re: Nitrite.
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 42824	From: biG poppa	Date: 8/21/2009
Subject: Re: Jellybean Parrots
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 42825	From: clandestine662002	Date: 8/21/2009
Subject: Re: Jellybean Parrots
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 42826	From: robbrouse	Date: 8/21/2009
Subject: Re: Nitrite.
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 42827	From: biG poppa	Date: 8/21/2009
Subject: Re: Jellybean Parrots
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 42828	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 8/21/2009
Subject: Re: Nitrite.
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 42829	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 8/21/2009
Subject: Re: Nitrite.
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 42830	From: robbrouse	Date: 8/21/2009
Subject: Re: Nitrite.
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 42831	From: robbrouse	Date: 8/21/2009
Subject: Re: Nitrite.
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 42832	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 8/21/2009
Subject: Re: Nitrite.
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 42833	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 8/21/2009
Subject: Re: Nitrite.
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 42834	From: robbrouse	Date: 8/21/2009
Subject: Re: Nitrite.
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 42835	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 8/21/2009
Subject: Re: Nitrite.
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 42836	From: robbrouse	Date: 8/22/2009
Subject: Re: Nitrite.
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 42837	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 8/22/2009
Subject: Re: Nitrite.
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 42838	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 8/23/2009
Subject: Article - Freshwater Aquarium Lighting
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 42839	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 8/23/2009
Subject: Article - Focus on Community Oddballs
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 42840	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 8/23/2009
Subject: Mystery snail eggs
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 42841	From: goldlenny_blogspot	Date: 8/23/2009
Subject: Re: Nitrate (Long post)
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 42842	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 8/23/2009
Subject: Re: Article - Freshwater Aquarium Lighting
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 42843	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 8/23/2009
Subject: Mudskippers
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 42844	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 8/23/2009
Subject: Re: Mystery snail eggs
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 42845	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 8/23/2009
Subject: Re: Mudskippers
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 42846	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 8/23/2009
Subject: Re: Mudskippers
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 42847	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 8/23/2009
Subject: Re: Mudskippers
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 42848	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 8/23/2009
Subject: Discussion On Gravel Vacuuming
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 42849	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 8/23/2009
Subject: API's Nitrate Test Kit IMPORTANT INFORMATION
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 42850	From: pam andress	Date: 8/23/2009
Subject: Re: Mystery snail eggs
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 42851	From: Dora Smith	Date: 8/23/2009
Subject: Re: [Bulk] [AquaticLife] Discussion On Gravel Vacuuming
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 42852	From: Dana Rasmussen	Date: 8/23/2009
Subject: Re: Discussion On Gravel Vacuuming
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 42853	From: pkr772	Date: 8/23/2009
Subject: Best Lighting for My Aquarium
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 42854	From: harry perry	Date: 8/23/2009
Subject: Re: Best Lighting for My Aquarium/pkr772
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 42855	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 8/23/2009
Subject: Re: Best Lighting for My Aquarium/pkr772
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 42856	From: Deenerz@aol.com	Date: 8/23/2009
Subject: Re: Mystery snail eggs
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 42857	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 8/23/2009
Subject: Re: Mystery snail eggs
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 42858	From: bill 1433	Date: 8/23/2009
Subject: Re: Best Lighting for My Aquarium/pkr772
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 42859	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 8/23/2009
Subject: Re: Mudskippers
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 42860	From: pam andress	Date: 8/23/2009
Subject: Re: Mystery snail eggs
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 42861	From: Gwydryn@aol.com	Date: 8/23/2009
Subject: Re: Mudskippers
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 42862	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 8/23/2009
Subject: Re: Mystery snail eggs
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 42863	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 8/23/2009
Subject: Re: Mystery snail eggs
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 42864	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 8/23/2009
Subject: Re: Mystery snail eggs
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 42865	From: pam andress	Date: 8/23/2009
Subject: Re: Mystery snail eggs
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 42866	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 8/24/2009
Subject: Changing water parameters
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 42867	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 8/24/2009
Subject: Re: Changing water parameters
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 42868	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 8/24/2009
Subject: Re: Changing water parameters
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 42869	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 8/24/2009
Subject: Re: Changing water parameters
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 42870	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 8/24/2009
Subject: Re: Changing water parameters
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 42871	From: bill 1433	Date: 8/24/2009
Subject: Re: Changing water parameters
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 42872	From: bill 1433	Date: 8/24/2009
Subject: Re: Changing water parameters
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 42873	From: jett07002	Date: 8/24/2009
Subject: Re: Discussion On Gravel Vacuuming
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 42874	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 8/24/2009
Subject: Re: Changing water parameters
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 42875	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 8/24/2009
Subject: Re: Discussion On Gravel Vacuuming
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 42876	From: courtland_jacob	Date: 8/24/2009
Subject: Re: Changing water parameters
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 42877	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 8/24/2009
Subject: Re: Mystery snail eggs
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 42878	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 8/25/2009
Subject: Re: Mystery snail eggs
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 42879	From: sevenspringss	Date: 8/25/2009
Subject: Re: Discussion On Gravel Vacuuming
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 42880	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 8/25/2009
Subject: Re: Changing water parameters
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 42881	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 8/25/2009
Subject: Re: Changing water parameters
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 42882	From: pam andress	Date: 8/25/2009
Subject: Re: Mystery snail eggs
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 42883	From: jett07002	Date: 8/25/2009
Subject: Re: Discussion On Gravel Vacuuming
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 42884	From: robbrouse	Date: 8/25/2009
Subject: Re: Changing water parameters
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 42885	From: Deenerz@aol.com	Date: 8/25/2009
Subject: Re: Changing water parameters
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 42886	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 8/25/2009
Subject: Re: Mystery snail eggs
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 42887	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 8/25/2009
Subject: Re: Changing water parameters
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 42888	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 8/25/2009
Subject: Re: Changing water parameters
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 42889	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 8/25/2009
Subject: Re: Changing water parameters
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 42890	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 8/25/2009
Subject: Re: Changing water parameters
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 42891	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 8/25/2009
Subject: Re: Mystery snail eggs
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 42892	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 8/25/2009
Subject: Re: Mystery snail eggs
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 42893	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 8/25/2009
Subject: Re: Mystery snail eggs
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 42894	From: pam andress	Date: 8/25/2009
Subject: Re: Mystery snail eggs
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 42895	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 8/25/2009
Subject: Re: Mystery snail eggs
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 42896	From: cat.rose	Date: 8/25/2009
Subject: Re Re: Bloated Guppy (he died last night)
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 42897	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 8/25/2009
Subject: Re: Re Re: Bloated Guppy (he died last night)
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 42898	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 8/25/2009
Subject: Re: Re Re: Bloated Guppy (he died last night)
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 42899	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 8/25/2009
Subject: Re: Re Re: Bloated Guppy (he died last night)
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 42900	From: cat.rose	Date: 8/26/2009
Subject: Re Re: Bloated Guppy (he died last night)
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 42901	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 8/26/2009
Subject: Re: Re Re: Bloated Guppy (he died last night)
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 42902	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 8/27/2009
Subject: Aquarium 1, Cat 0
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 42903	From: David Keymel	Date: 8/27/2009
Subject: Re: Aquarium 1, Cat 0
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 42904	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 8/27/2009
Subject: Re: Aquarium 1, Cat 0
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 42905	From: Margie	Date: 8/27/2009
Subject: Re: Aquarium 1, Cat 0
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 42906	From: silvercat151	Date: 8/27/2009
Subject: PLEASE help - strange thing on goldfish
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 42907	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 8/27/2009
Subject: Re: PLEASE help - strange thing on goldfish
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 42908	From: moiragrubb2000	Date: 8/27/2009
Subject: oscar ill
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 42909	From: bill 1433	Date: 8/27/2009
Subject: Re: oscar ill
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 42910	From: moiragrubb2000	Date: 8/27/2009
Subject: Re: oscar ill
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 42911	From: Dora Smith	Date: 8/27/2009
Subject: Re: Aquarium 1, Cat 0
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 42912	From: moira grubb	Date: 8/27/2009
Subject: Re: oscar ill
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 42913	From: sevenspringss	Date: 8/27/2009
Subject: Re: oscar ill
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 42914	From: moiragrubb2000	Date: 8/27/2009
Subject: Re: oscar ill
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 42915	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 8/27/2009
Subject: Re: oscar ill
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 42916	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 8/27/2009
Subject: Re: Aquarium 1, Cat 0
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 42917	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 8/27/2009
Subject: Re: Aquarium 1, Cat 0
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 42918	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 8/27/2009
Subject: Re: Aquarium 1, Cat 0
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 42919	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 8/27/2009
Subject: Re: oscar ill
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 42920	From: moiragrubb2000	Date: 8/28/2009
Subject: Re: oscar ill
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 42921	From: David Keymel	Date: 8/28/2009
Subject: Re: Aquarium 1, Cat 0
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 42922	From: David Keymel	Date: 8/28/2009
Subject: My Tailless Fishy
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 42923	From: Dora Smith	Date: 8/28/2009
Subject: Re: [Bulk] RE: [AquaticLife] Aquarium 1, Cat 0
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 42924	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 8/28/2009
Subject: Re: My Tailless Fishy
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 42925	From: Margie	Date: 8/28/2009
Subject: Re: [Bulk] RE: [AquaticLife] Aquarium 1, Cat 0
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 42926	From: robbrouse	Date: 8/28/2009
Subject: Cycling and Nitrite
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 42927	From: rebecca may	Date: 8/28/2009
Subject: Re: PLEASE help - strange thing on goldfish
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 42928	From: David Keymel	Date: 8/28/2009
Subject: Re: My Tailless Fishy
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 42929	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 8/28/2009
Subject: Re: My Tailless Fishy
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 42930	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 8/28/2009
Subject: Re: Cycling and Nitrite
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 42931	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 8/28/2009
Subject: Re: PLEASE help - strange thing on goldfish
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 42932	From: robbrouse	Date: 8/28/2009
Subject: Re: Cycling and Nitrite
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 42933	From: David Keymel	Date: 8/28/2009
Subject: Re: My Tailless Fishy
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 42934	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 8/28/2009
Subject: Are my posts going through?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 42935	From: David Keymel	Date: 8/28/2009
Subject: Re: Are my posts going through?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 42936	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 8/28/2009
Subject: Re: Are my posts going through?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 42937	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 8/28/2009
Subject: Re: Are my posts going through?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 42938	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 8/28/2009
Subject: Re: Cycling and Nitrite
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 42939	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 8/28/2009
Subject: Re: Are my posts going through?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 42940	From: Margie	Date: 8/28/2009
Subject: Question - Silver Tip Shark
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 42941	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 8/28/2009
Subject: Re: Are my posts going through?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 42942	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 8/28/2009
Subject: Re: Question - Silver Tip Shark
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 42943	From: robbrouse	Date: 8/28/2009
Subject: Re: Cycling and Nitrite
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 42944	From: Margie	Date: 8/28/2009
Subject: Re: Question - Silver Tip Shark
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 42945	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 8/28/2009
Subject: Re: Cycling and Nitrite
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 42946	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 8/28/2009
Subject: Re: Question - Silver Tip Shark
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 42947	From: silvercat151	Date: 8/28/2009
Subject: Re: PLEASE help - strange thing on goldfish
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 42948	From: Dora Smith	Date: 8/28/2009
Subject: How to treat my betta's disappearing tail fin
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 42949	From: sevenspringss	Date: 8/28/2009
Subject: Re: Question - Silver Tip Shark
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 42950	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 8/28/2009
Subject: Re: Are my posts going through?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 42951	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 8/28/2009
Subject: Re: PLEASE help - strange thing on goldfish
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 42952	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 8/28/2009
Subject: Re: Are my posts going through?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 42953	From: Margie	Date: 8/28/2009
Subject: Re: Question - Silver Tip Shark
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 42954	From: Margie	Date: 8/28/2009
Subject: Re: Question - Silver Tip Shark
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 42955	From: sevenspringss	Date: 8/28/2009
Subject: Re: How to treat my betta's disappearing tail fin
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 42956	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 8/28/2009
Subject: Re: Question - Silver Tip Shark
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 42957	From: sevenspringss	Date: 8/28/2009
Subject: Re: Question - Silver Tip Shark
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 42958	From: Margie	Date: 8/28/2009
Subject: Re: Question - Silver Tip Shark
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 42959	From: moiragrubb2000	Date: 8/28/2009
Subject: Re: oscar ill
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 42960	From: Margie	Date: 8/28/2009
Subject: Lenny
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 42961	From: sevenspringss	Date: 8/28/2009
Subject: Re: Lenny
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 42962	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 8/28/2009
Subject: Re: Are my posts going through?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 42963	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 8/28/2009
Subject: Re: How to treat my betta's disappearing tail fin
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 42964	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 8/28/2009
Subject: Re: oscar ill
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 42965	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 8/28/2009
Subject: Re: Lenny
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 42966	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 8/28/2009
Subject: Re: Are my posts going through?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 42967	From: sevenspringss	Date: 8/28/2009
Subject: Re: Question - Silver Tip Shark
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 42968	From: sevenspringss@wmconnect.com	Date: 8/28/2009
Subject: Re: oscar ill
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 42969	From: robbrouse	Date: 8/28/2009
Subject: Re: Cycling and Nitrite
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 42970	From: Margie	Date: 8/28/2009
Subject: Re: Lenny
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 42971	From: moiragrubb2000	Date: 8/28/2009
Subject: Re: oscar ill
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 42972	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 8/28/2009
Subject: Re: Question - Silver Tip Shark
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 42973	From: moiragrubb2000	Date: 8/28/2009
Subject: Re: oscar ill
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 42974	From: Margie	Date: 8/28/2009
Subject: Re: Question - Silver Tip Shark
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 42975	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 8/28/2009
Subject: Re: oscar ill
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 42976	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 8/28/2009
Subject: Re: Are my posts going through?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 42977	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 8/28/2009
Subject: Re: oscar ill
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 42978	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 8/28/2009
Subject: Re: PLEASE help - strange thing on goldfish
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 42979	From: moiragrubb2000	Date: 8/28/2009
Subject: Re: oscar ill
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 42980	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 8/28/2009
Subject: Re: My Tailless Fishy
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 42981	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 8/28/2009
Subject: Re: Question - Silver Tip Shark
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 42982	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 8/28/2009
Subject: Re: My Tailless Fishy
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 42983	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 8/28/2009
Subject: Re: Cycling and Nitrite
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 42984	From: bill 1433	Date: 8/28/2009
Subject: Re: Cycling and Nitrite
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 42985	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 8/28/2009
Subject: Re: Question - Silver Tip Shark
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 42986	From: silvercat151	Date: 8/28/2009
Subject: Re: PLEASE help - strange thing on goldfish
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 42987	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 8/29/2009
Subject: Re: PLEASE help - strange thing on goldfish
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 42988	From: moiragrubb2000	Date: 8/29/2009
Subject: Re: oscar ill
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 42989	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 8/29/2009
Subject: Re: Cycling and Nitrite
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 42990	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 8/29/2009
Subject: Re: Question - Silver Tip Shark
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 42991	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 8/29/2009
Subject: Re: Cycling and Nitrite
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 42992	From: sevenspringss	Date: 8/29/2009
Subject: Re: oscar ill
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 42993	From: kl_whitney	Date: 8/29/2009
Subject: dimensions?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 42994	From: moiragrubb2000	Date: 8/29/2009
Subject: Re: oscar ill
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 42995	From: sevenspringss	Date: 8/29/2009
Subject: Re: oscar ill
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 42996	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 8/29/2009
Subject: Re: dimensions?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 42997	From: bill 1433	Date: 8/29/2009
Subject: Re: Cycling and Nitrite
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 42998	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 8/29/2009
Subject: Re: Cycling and Nitrite
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 42999	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 8/29/2009
Subject: Re: dimensions?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 43000	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 8/29/2009
Subject: Re: oscar ill
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 43001	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 8/29/2009
Subject: Re: oscar ill
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 43002	From: Dora Smith	Date: 8/29/2009
Subject: Re: How to treat my betta's disappearing tail fin
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 43003	From: robbrouse	Date: 8/29/2009
Subject: Re: Cycling and Nitrite
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 43004	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 8/29/2009
Subject: Re: Cycling and Nitrite
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 43005	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 8/29/2009
Subject: Re: Cycling and Nitrite
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 43006	From: kl_whitney	Date: 8/29/2009
Subject: betas?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 43007	From: kl_whitney	Date: 8/29/2009
Subject: Re: bettas?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 43008	From: pam andress	Date: 8/29/2009
Subject: Re: dimensions?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 43009	From: kl_whitney	Date: 8/29/2009
Subject: Re: dimensions?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 43010	From: moiragrubb2000	Date: 8/29/2009
Subject: Re: oscar ill
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 43011	From: moiragrubb2000	Date: 8/29/2009
Subject: Re: oscar ill
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 43012	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 8/29/2009
Subject: Re: bettas?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 43013	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 8/29/2009
Subject: Re: bettas?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 43014	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 8/29/2009
Subject: Re: betas?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 43015	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 8/29/2009
Subject: Re: dimensions?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 43016	From: kl_whitney	Date: 8/30/2009
Subject: Re: betas?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 43017	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 8/30/2009
Subject: Re: betas?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 43018	From: Dora Smith	Date: 8/30/2009
Subject: Re: [Bulk] [AquaticLife] Re: betas?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 43019	From: Dora Smith	Date: 8/30/2009
Subject: Re: bettas?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 43020	From: Dora Smith	Date: 8/30/2009
Subject: Re: betas?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 43021	From: Dora Smith	Date: 8/30/2009
Subject: Re: [Bulk] RE: [AquaticLife] Re: bettas?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 43022	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 8/30/2009
Subject: FW: AQUAFEST IS COMING!!!!
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 43023	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 8/30/2009
Subject: Re: bettas?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 43024	From: gambusiaaffinis	Date: 8/31/2009
Subject: Tadpole legs
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 43025	From: Dora Smith	Date: 8/31/2009
Subject: Re: bettas?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 43026	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 8/31/2009
Subject: Re: Tadpole legs
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 43027	From: moiragrubb2000	Date: 8/31/2009
Subject: Re: oscar ill
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 43028	From: gambusiaaffinis	Date: 8/31/2009
Subject: Re: Tadpole legs
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 43029	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 8/31/2009
Subject: Re: oscar ill
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 43030	From: fishlover_james_s	Date: 8/31/2009
Subject: Re: API's Nitrate Test Kit IMPORTANT INFORMATION
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 43031	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 8/31/2009
Subject: Re: API's Nitrate Test Kit IMPORTANT INFORMATION
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 43032	From: sevenspringss	Date: 9/1/2009
Subject: Re: oscar ill
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 43033	From: moiragrubb2000	Date: 9/1/2009
Subject: Re: oscar ill
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 43034	From: moiragrubb2000	Date: 9/1/2009
Subject: Re: oscar ill
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 43035	From: sevenspringss	Date: 9/1/2009
Subject: Re: oscar ill
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 43036	From: sevenspringss	Date: 9/1/2009
Subject: Re: oscar ill
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 43037	From: moiragrubb2000	Date: 9/1/2009
Subject: Re: oscar ill
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 43038	From: moira grubb	Date: 9/1/2009
Subject: Re: oscar ill
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 43039	From: sevenspringss	Date: 9/1/2009
Subject: Re: oscar ill
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 43040	From: sevenspringss	Date: 9/1/2009
Subject: Re: oscar ill
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 43041	From: moiragrubb2000	Date: 9/1/2009
Subject: Re: oscar ill
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 43042	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 9/1/2009
Subject: Re: oscar ill
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 43043	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 9/1/2009
Subject: Re: oscar ill
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 43044	From: moiragrubb2000	Date: 9/1/2009
Subject: Re: oscar ill
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 43045	From: moiragrubb2000	Date: 9/1/2009
Subject: Re: oscar ill
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 43046	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 9/1/2009
Subject: Re: oscar ill
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 43047	From: moiragrubb2000	Date: 9/1/2009
Subject: Re: oscar ill
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 43048	From: sevenspringss	Date: 9/1/2009
Subject: Re: oscar ill
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 43049	From: sevenspringss	Date: 9/1/2009
Subject: Re: oscar ill
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 43050	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 9/1/2009
Subject: Re: oscar ill
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 43051	From: moiragrubb2000	Date: 9/1/2009
Subject: Re: oscar ill
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 43052	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 9/1/2009
Subject: Re: oscar ill
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 43053	From: sevenspringss	Date: 9/1/2009
Subject: Re: oscar ill
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 43054	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 9/1/2009
Subject: Re: oscar ill
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 43055	From: moiragrubb2000	Date: 9/1/2009
Subject: Re: oscar ill
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 43056	From: moiragrubb2000	Date: 9/1/2009
Subject: Re: oscar ill
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 43057	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 9/1/2009
Subject: Re: oscar ill
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 43058	From: sevenspringss	Date: 9/1/2009
Subject: Re: oscar ill
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 43059	From: sevenspringss	Date: 9/1/2009
Subject: Re: oscar ill
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 43060	From: sevenspringss	Date: 9/1/2009
Subject: Re: oscar ill
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 43061	From: toddswoman496861@aim.com	Date: 9/1/2009
Subject: Re: oscar ill
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 43062	From: moiragrubb2000	Date: 9/1/2009
Subject: Re: oscar ill
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 43063	From: moiragrubb2000	Date: 9/2/2009
Subject: Re: oscar ill
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 43064	From: moiragrubb2000	Date: 9/2/2009
Subject: Re: oscar ill
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 43065	From: toddswoman496861@aim.com	Date: 9/2/2009
Subject: Re: oscar ill
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 43066	From: fishdudeut	Date: 9/2/2009
Subject: Fishless Cycle.
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 43067	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 9/2/2009
Subject: Slow Russian customs officials kill 18 ton exotic tropical fish carg
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 43068	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 9/2/2009
Subject: Re: Fishless Cycle.
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 43069	From: fishdudeut	Date: 9/2/2009
Subject: Re: Fishless Cycle.
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 43070	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 9/2/2009
Subject: Re: Fishless Cycle.
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 43071	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 9/2/2009
Subject: Re: Fishless Cycle.
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 43072	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 9/2/2009
Subject: Re: Fishless Cycle.
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 43073	From: fishdudeut	Date: 9/3/2009
Subject: Re: Fishless Cycle.
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 43074	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 9/3/2009
Subject: Re: Fishless Cycle.
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 43075	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 9/3/2009
Subject: TFSRI Makes Network News Podcast
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 43076	From: fishdudeut	Date: 9/3/2009
Subject: Re: Fishless Cycle.
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 43077	From: fishdudeut	Date: 9/3/2009
Subject: Stability Water Conditioner.
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 43078	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 9/4/2009
Subject: Re: Stability Water Conditioner.
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 43079	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 9/4/2009
Subject: Re: Fishless Cycle.
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 43080	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 9/4/2009
Subject: Something's Fishy In Wellington
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 43081	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 9/4/2009
Subject: Re: Something's Fishy In Wellington
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 43082	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 9/4/2009
Subject: Re: Something's Fishy In Wellington
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 43083	From: pam andress	Date: 9/4/2009
Subject: Re: Something's Fishy In Wellington
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 43084	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 9/4/2009
Subject: Re: Something's Fishy In Wellington
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 43085	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 9/4/2009
Subject: Re: Something's Fishy In Wellington
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 43086	From: courtland_jacob	Date: 9/4/2009
Subject: 46 gallon bowfront
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 43087	From: Donna Ransome	Date: 9/4/2009
Subject: Re: 46 gallon bowfront
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 43088	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 9/4/2009
Subject: Re: Something's Fishy In Wellington
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 43089	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 9/4/2009
Subject: TFSRI Makes Network News Podcast
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 43090	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 9/4/2009
Subject: Re: Something's Fishy In Wellington
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 43091	From: courtland_jacob	Date: 9/4/2009
Subject: Re: 46 gallon bowfront
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 43092	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 9/4/2009
Subject: Re: Something's Fishy In Wellington
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 43093	From: kuradi8	Date: 9/4/2009
Subject: Air Pumps
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 43094	From: Jeremy Taylor	Date: 9/4/2009
Subject: new member intro
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 43095	From: Donna Ransome	Date: 9/4/2009
Subject: Re: 46 gallon bowfront
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 43096	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 9/4/2009
Subject: Re: Something's Fishy In Wellington
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 43097	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 9/4/2009
Subject: Re: new member intro
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 43098	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 9/4/2009
Subject: Re: Something's Fishy In Wellington
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 43099	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 9/4/2009
Subject: Re: Something's Fishy In Wellington
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 43100	From: pam andress	Date: 9/4/2009
Subject: Re: Something's Fishy In Wellington
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 43101	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 9/5/2009
Subject: NOAA Ocean, Great Lakes and Coastal Research
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 43102	From: erikaandnewton	Date: 9/5/2009
Subject: planted frog tank
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 43103	From: kuradi8	Date: 9/5/2009
Subject: Re: betas?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 43104	From: Dora Smith	Date: 9/5/2009
Subject: Re: new member intro
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 43105	From: Dora Smith	Date: 9/5/2009
Subject: Re: new member intro
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 43106	From: fishdudeut	Date: 9/5/2009
Subject: Re: Fishless Cycle.
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 43107	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 9/5/2009
Subject: Re: Fishless Cycle.
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 43108	From: kuradi8	Date: 9/5/2009
Subject: Re: betas?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 43109	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 9/5/2009
Subject: Re: betas?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 43110	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 9/5/2009
Subject: Re: betas?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 43111	From: harry perry	Date: 9/5/2009
Subject: Re: Fishless Cycle./fishdudeut/Why?.
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 43112	From: Dora Smith	Date: 9/5/2009
Subject: Nataniel the Fish is sick
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 43113	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 9/5/2009
Subject: Re: Fishless Cycle./fishdudeut/Why?.
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 43114	From: kuradi8	Date: 9/5/2009
Subject: Re: betas?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 43115	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 9/5/2009
Subject: Re: Nataniel the Fish is sick
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 43116	From: fishdudeut	Date: 9/5/2009
Subject: Re: Fishless Cycle.
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 43117	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 9/5/2009
Subject: Re: Fishless Cycle.
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 43118	From: fishdudeut	Date: 9/5/2009
Subject: Re: Fishless Cycle.
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 43119	From: Dora Smith	Date: 9/5/2009
Subject: Re: Nataniel the Fish is sick
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 43120	From: greychildren	Date: 9/5/2009
Subject: My beloved clown loach is not normal
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 43121	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 9/5/2009
Subject: Re: My beloved clown loach is not normal
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 43122	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 9/5/2009
Subject: Re: Nataniel the Fish is sick
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 43123	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 9/5/2009
Subject: Re: Fishless Cycle.
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 43124	From: fishdudeut	Date: 9/5/2009
Subject: Re: Fishless Cycle./fishdudeut/Why?.
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 43125	From: biG poppa	Date: 9/5/2009
Subject: Re: My beloved clown loach is not normal
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 43126	From: Dora Smith	Date: 9/5/2009
Subject: Re: Nataniel the Fish is sick
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 43127	From: Dora Smith	Date: 9/5/2009
Subject: Re: [Bulk] RE: [AquaticLife] Re: Nataniel the Fish is sick
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 43128	From: Dora Smith	Date: 9/5/2009
Subject: Re: Nataniel the Fish is sick
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 43129	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 9/5/2009
Subject: Re: [Bulk] RE: [AquaticLife] Re: Nataniel the Fish is sick
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 43130	From: kl_whitney	Date: 9/6/2009
Subject: Will have to delay getting a betta.....
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 43131	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 9/6/2009
Subject: Re: Will have to delay getting a betta.....
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 43132	From: Dora Smith	Date: 9/6/2009
Subject: Re: Will have to delay getting a betta.....
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 43133	From: fishdudeut	Date: 9/6/2009
Subject: Re: Fishless Cycle.
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 43134	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 9/6/2009
Subject: Re: Fishless Cycle.
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 43135	From: Dora Smith	Date: 9/6/2009
Subject: Re: Will have to delay getting a betta.....
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 43136	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 9/6/2009
Subject: Re: Will have to delay getting a betta.....
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 43137	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 9/6/2009
Subject: Re: Will have to delay getting a betta.....
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 43138	From: Heather	Date: 9/6/2009
Subject: Hi there.
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 43139	From: Dora Smith	Date: 9/7/2009
Subject: Re: [Bulk] RE: [AquaticLife] Will have to delay getting a betta.....
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 43140	From: fishdudeut	Date: 9/7/2009
Subject: Aquarium Heater
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 43141	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 9/7/2009
Subject: That Fish Place
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 43142	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 9/7/2009
Subject: Re: Aquarium Heater
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 43143	From: bill 1433	Date: 9/7/2009
Subject: Re: Aquarium Heater
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 43144	From: fishdudeut	Date: 9/7/2009
Subject: Re: Aquarium Heater
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 43145	From: bill 1433	Date: 9/7/2009
Subject: Re: Aquarium Heater
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 43146	From: bill 1433	Date: 9/7/2009
Subject: Re: That Fish Place
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 43147	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 9/7/2009
Subject: Re: That Fish Place
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 43148	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 9/7/2009
Subject: Re: That Fish Place
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 43149	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 9/7/2009
Subject: Re: Aquarium Heater
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 43150	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 9/7/2009
Subject: Re: That Fish Place
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 43151	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 9/7/2009
Subject: Re: That Fish Place
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 43152	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 9/7/2009
Subject: Re: Aquarium Heater
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 43153	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 9/7/2009
Subject: Re: That Fish Place
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 43154	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 9/7/2009
Subject: Re: That Fish Place
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 43155	From: pam andress	Date: 9/7/2009
Subject: Re: That Fish Place/Whoopie Pie Festival
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 43156	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 9/7/2009
Subject: Re: That Fish Place/Whoopie Pie Festival
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 43157	From: bill 1433	Date: 9/7/2009
Subject: Re: That Fish Place
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 43158	From: bill 1433	Date: 9/7/2009
Subject: Re: That Fish Place
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 43159	From: pam andress	Date: 9/7/2009
Subject: Re: That Fish Place/Whoopie Pie Festival
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 43160	From: sevenspringss	Date: 9/7/2009
Subject: Re: Aquarium Heater
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 43161	From: fishdudeut	Date: 9/7/2009
Subject: Re: Aquarium Heater
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 43162	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 9/7/2009
Subject: Re: Aquarium Heater
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 43163	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 9/7/2009
Subject: Clearwater Marine Aquarium holds contest to name its rays
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 43164	From: fishdudeut	Date: 9/7/2009
Subject: Re: Aquarium Heater
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 43165	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 9/7/2009
Subject: Re: Clearwater Marine Aquarium holds contest to name its rays
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 43166	From: sevenspringss@wmconnect.com	Date: 9/7/2009
Subject: Re: Aquarium Heater
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 43167	From: sevenspringss@wmconnect.com	Date: 9/7/2009
Subject: Re: Aquarium Heater
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 43168	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 9/8/2009
Subject: Re: That Fish Place
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 43169	From: Gwydryn@aol.com	Date: 9/8/2009
Subject: Re: Aquarium Heater
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 43170	From: jimpat101	Date: 9/8/2009
Subject: Alge on glass problem...
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 43171	From: bill 1433	Date: 9/8/2009
Subject: Re: Alge on glass problem...
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 43172	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 9/8/2009
Subject: Re: Alge on glass problem...
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 43173	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 9/8/2009
Subject: Re: Alge on glass problem...
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 43174	From: biG poppa	Date: 9/8/2009
Subject: Re: Alge on glass problem...
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 43175	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 9/8/2009
Subject: Re: Alge on glass problem...
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 43176	From: biG poppa	Date: 9/8/2009
Subject: Re: Alge on glass problem...
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 43177	From: fishdudeut	Date: 9/8/2009
Subject: Tap Water Base Line.
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 43178	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 9/8/2009
Subject: UV filter
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 43179	From: cat.rose	Date: 9/8/2009
Subject: Strange creatures in my tank
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 43180	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 9/8/2009
Subject: Re: Tap Water Base Line.
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 43181	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 9/8/2009
Subject: Re: Strange creatures in my tank
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 43182	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 9/8/2009
Subject: Re: UV filter
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 43183	From: Dora Smith	Date: 9/8/2009
Subject: Re: Alge on glass problem...
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 43184	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 9/8/2009
Subject: Re: Strange creatures in my tank
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 43185	From: fishdudeut	Date: 9/8/2009
Subject: Re: Tap Water Base Line.
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 43186	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 9/8/2009
Subject: Re: UV filter
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 43187	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 9/8/2009
Subject: Re: Tap Water Base Line.
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 43188	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 9/8/2009
Subject: Re: UV filter
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 43189	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 9/9/2009
Subject: Re: UV filter
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 43190	From: kuradi8	Date: 9/9/2009
Subject: Re: Alge on glass problem...
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 43191	From: jimpat101	Date: 9/9/2009
Subject: Algae problem......
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 43192	From: kuradi8	Date: 9/9/2009
Subject: Re: Air Pumps
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 43193	From: Jpateson@aol.com	Date: 9/9/2009
Subject: Re: Alge on glass problem...
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 43194	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 9/9/2009
Subject: Re: UV filter
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 43195	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 9/9/2009
Subject: Re: Alge on glass problem...
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 43196	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 9/9/2009
Subject: Henderson Morley announces KHV vaccine results - (over 90% successfu
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 43197	From: kuradi8	Date: 9/9/2009
Subject: Re: Alge on glass problem...
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 43198	From: Kevin Boyle	Date: 9/9/2009
Subject: Re: Air Pumps
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 43199	From: kuradi8	Date: 9/9/2009
Subject: Dear Moderator(s)
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 43200	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 9/9/2009
Subject: Re: Algae problem......
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 43201	From: bill 1433	Date: 9/9/2009
Subject: Re: Dear Moderator(s)
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 43202	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 9/9/2009
Subject: Re: Alge on glass problem...
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 43203	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 9/9/2009
Subject: Re: Air Pumps
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 43204	From: kuradi8	Date: 9/9/2009
Subject: Re: Dear Moderator(s)
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 43205	From: robbrouse	Date: 9/9/2009
Subject: Re: Dear Moderator(s)
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 43206	From: kuradi8	Date: 9/9/2009
Subject: Re: Air Pumps
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 43207	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 9/9/2009
Subject: Re: UV filter
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 43208	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 9/9/2009
Subject: Re: Dear Moderator(s)
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 43209	From: kuradi8	Date: 9/9/2009
Subject: Re: Air Pumps
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 43210	From: robbrouse	Date: 9/9/2009
Subject: Re: Air Pumps
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 43211	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 9/9/2009
Subject: Re: Air Pumps
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 43212	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 9/9/2009
Subject: Re: Air Pumps
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 43213	From: Sam Palermo	Date: 9/9/2009
Subject: Re: [Bulk] [AquaticLife] Re: Air Pumps
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 43214	From: kuradi8	Date: 9/9/2009
Subject: Re: Dear Moderator(s)
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 43215	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 9/9/2009
Subject: Re: Dear Moderator(s)
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 43216	From: Deenerz@aol.com	Date: 9/9/2009
Subject: Deer in the headlights Moderator(s)
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 43217	From: kuradi8	Date: 9/9/2009
Subject: [Bulk] [AquaticLife] Re: Air Pumps
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 43218	From: Deenerz@aol.com	Date: 9/9/2009
Subject: Re: Dear Moderator(s)
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 43219	From: laramoo1@ymail.com	Date: 9/9/2009
Subject: goldfish
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 43220	From: biG poppa	Date: 9/9/2009
Subject: Re: Dear Moderator(s)
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 43221	From: kuradi8	Date: 9/9/2009
Subject: Re: Dear Moderator(s)
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 43222	From: kuradi8	Date: 9/9/2009
Subject: Re: Deer in the headlights Moderator(s)
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 43223	From: kuradi8	Date: 9/9/2009
Subject: Re: goldfish
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 43224	From: kuradi8	Date: 9/9/2009
Subject: Re: Deer in the headlights Moderator(s)
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 43225	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 9/9/2009
Subject: Re: UV filter
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 43226	From: Kevin E Boyle	Date: 9/9/2009
Subject: Re: Air Pumps
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 43227	From: fishdudeut	Date: 9/9/2009
Subject: Re: Tap Water Base Line.
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 43228	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 9/9/2009
Subject: Re: Deer in the headlights Moderator(s)
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 43229	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 9/9/2009
Subject: Re: Tap Water Base Line.
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 43230	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 9/9/2009
Subject: Snail issues
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 43231	From: fishdudeut	Date: 9/9/2009
Subject: Re: Tap Water Base Line.
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 43232	From: Donna Ransome	Date: 9/9/2009
Subject: Re: Algae problem......
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 43233	From: Donna Ransome	Date: 9/9/2009
Subject: Re: Alge on glass problem...
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 43234	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 9/9/2009
Subject: Re: Dear Moderator(s)
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 43235	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 9/9/2009
Subject: Re: Dear Moderator(s)
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 43236	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 9/9/2009
Subject: Re: Tap Water Base Line.
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 43237	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 9/9/2009
Subject: Re: Dear Moderator(s)
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 43238	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 9/9/2009
Subject: Re: Air Pumps
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 43239	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 9/9/2009
Subject: Re: goldfish
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 43240	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 9/9/2009
Subject: Re: Tap Water Base Line.
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 43241	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 9/9/2009
Subject: Re: Snail issues
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 43242	From: kuradi8	Date: 9/9/2009
Subject: Re: Air Pumps
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 43243	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 9/9/2009
Subject: Re: Air Pumps
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 43244	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 9/9/2009
Subject: Re: Air Pumps
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 43245	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 9/9/2009
Subject: Re: Snail issues
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 43246	From: Jpateson@aol.com	Date: 9/10/2009
Subject: Re: Alge on glass problem...
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 43247	From: Jpateson@aol.com	Date: 9/10/2009
Subject: Re: Alge on glass problem...
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 43248	From: Jpateson@aol.com	Date: 9/10/2009
Subject: Re: Algae problem......
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 43249	From: sevenspringss	Date: 9/10/2009
Subject: Re: Dear Moderator(s)
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 43250	From: kuradi8	Date: 9/10/2009
Subject: Re: Air Pumps
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 43251	From: kuradi8	Date: 9/10/2009
Subject: Re: Dear Moderator(s)
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 43252	From: greychildren	Date: 9/10/2009
Subject: Malawi's in the wild beutifull colors enjoy
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 43253	From: Kevin Boyle	Date: 9/10/2009
Subject: Re: Air Pumps
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 43254	From: Heather	Date: 9/10/2009
Subject: Re: Dear Moderator(s)
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 43255	From: Cee Jaye	Date: 9/10/2009
Subject: Oscar Question - (moved)
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 43256	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 9/10/2009
Subject: Re: Malawi's in the wild beutifull colors enjoy
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 43257	From: bill 1433	Date: 9/10/2009
Subject: Re: Dear Moderator(s)
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 43258	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 9/10/2009
Subject: Re: Oscar Question - (moved)
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 43259	From: sevenspringss	Date: 9/10/2009
Subject: Re: Oscar Question - (moved)
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 43260	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 9/10/2009
Subject: Re: Oscar Question - (moved)
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 43261	From: Cee Jaye	Date: 9/10/2009
Subject: Re: Oscar Question - (moved)
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 43262	From: Cee Jaye	Date: 9/10/2009
Subject: Re: Oscar Question - (moved)
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 43263	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 9/10/2009
Subject: Re: Oscar Question - (moved)
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 43264	From: sevenspringss	Date: 9/10/2009
Subject: Re: Oscar Question - (moved)
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 43265	From: moiragrubb2000	Date: 9/10/2009
Subject: oscar ill
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 43266	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 9/10/2009
Subject: Re: oscar ill
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 43267	From: biG poppa	Date: 9/10/2009
Subject: Re: Malawi's in the wild beutifull colors enjoy
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 43268	From: Heather	Date: 9/10/2009
Subject: Re: Dear Moderator(s)
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 43269	From: clandestine662002	Date: 9/10/2009
Subject: Re: Snail issues > Gail's snail
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 43270	From: kuradi8	Date: 9/10/2009
Subject: A TEST Post -- Feel Free to Ignore
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 43271	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 9/10/2009
Subject: Re: Snail issues > Gail's snail
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 43272	From: Cee Jaye	Date: 9/10/2009
Subject: Re: Oscar Question - (moved) (additional questions too)
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 43273	From: Cee Jaye	Date: 9/10/2009
Subject: Re: Oscar Question - (moved)
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 43274	From: bill 1433	Date: 9/10/2009
Subject: How Much Carbon?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 43275	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 9/10/2009
Subject: Re: Oscar Question - (moved) (additional questions too)
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 43276	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 9/10/2009
Subject: Re: How Much Carbon?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 43277	From: Cee Jaye	Date: 9/10/2009
Subject: Re: Oscar Question - (moved) (additional questions too)
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 43278	From: bill 1433	Date: 9/10/2009
Subject: Re: Oscar Question - (moved) (additional questions too)
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 43279	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 9/10/2009
Subject: Baby Hillstream Loaches! yay!
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 43280	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 9/10/2009
Subject: Re: Oscar Question - (moved) (additional questions too)
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 43281	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 9/10/2009
Subject: Re: How Much Carbon?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 43282	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 9/10/2009
Subject: Re: Oscar Question - (moved) (additional questions too)
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 43283	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 9/10/2009
Subject: Re: Oscar Question - (moved)
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 43284	From: bill 1433	Date: 9/10/2009
Subject: Re: How Much Carbon?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 43285	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 9/10/2009
Subject: Re: How Much Carbon?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 43286	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 9/10/2009
Subject: Re: Oscar Question - (moved) (additional questions too)
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 43287	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 9/10/2009
Subject: Gourami update
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 43288	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 9/10/2009
Subject: Re: How Much Carbon?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 43289	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 9/10/2009
Subject: Re: Oscar Question - (moved)
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 43290	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 9/10/2009
Subject: Re: How Much Carbon?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 43291	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 9/10/2009
Subject: Re: Gourami update
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 43292	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 9/10/2009
Subject: Re: Gourami update
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 43293	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 9/10/2009
Subject: Re: Gourami update
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 43294	From: bill 1433	Date: 9/10/2009
Subject: Re: Oscar Question - (moved) (additional questions too)
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 43295	From: bill 1433	Date: 9/10/2009
Subject: Re: How Much Carbon?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 43296	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 9/10/2009
Subject: Re: Baby Hillstream Loaches! yay!
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 43297	From: pam andress	Date: 9/10/2009
Subject: Re: Baby Hillstream Loaches! yay!
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 43298	From: Lisa Lawless	Date: 9/10/2009
Subject: Should all else fail...Was - How much carbon?-
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 43299	From: courtland_jacob	Date: 9/10/2009
Subject: baton rouge
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 43300	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 9/10/2009
Subject: Re: Should all else fail...Was - How much carbon?-
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 43301	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 9/11/2009
Subject: Re: How Much Carbon?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 43302	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 9/11/2009
Subject: Re: How Much Carbon?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 43303	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 9/11/2009
Subject: Re: Baby Hillstream Loaches! yay!
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 43304	From: bill 1433	Date: 9/11/2009
Subject: Re: Should all else fail...Was - How much carbon?-
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 43305	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 9/11/2009
Subject: Re: baton rouge
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 43306	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 9/11/2009
Subject: Re: Should all else fail...Was - How much carbon?-
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 43307	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 9/11/2009
Subject: Re: Baby Hillstream Loaches! yay!
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 43308	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 9/11/2009
Subject: Re: Baby Hillstream Loaches! yay!
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 43309	From: bill 1433	Date: 9/11/2009
Subject: Water Base Lines ----A Warning!
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 43310	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 9/11/2009
Subject: Re: Baby Hillstream Loaches! yay!
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 43311	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 9/11/2009
Subject: Re: Baby Hillstream Loaches! yay!
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 43312	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 9/11/2009
Subject: Re: Baby Hillstream Loaches! yay!
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 43313	From: bill 1433	Date: 9/11/2009
Subject: Re: Baby Hillstream Loaches! yay!
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 43314	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 9/11/2009
Subject: Re: Baby Hillstream Loaches! yay!
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 43315	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 9/11/2009
Subject: Re: Water Base Lines ----A Warning!
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 43316	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 9/11/2009
Subject: Re: Baby Hillstream Loaches! yay!
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 43317	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 9/11/2009
Subject: Re: Baby Hillstream Loaches! yay!
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 43318	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 9/11/2009
Subject: Re: Baby Hillstream Loaches! yay!
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 43319	From: fishdudeut	Date: 9/11/2009
Subject: Re: Fishless Cycle.
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 43320	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 9/11/2009
Subject: Re: Baby Hillstream Loaches! yay!
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 43321	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 9/11/2009
Subject: Re: Baby Hillstream Loaches! yay!
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 43322	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 9/11/2009
Subject: Re: Fishless Cycle.
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 43323	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 9/11/2009
Subject: Re: Baby Hillstream Loaches! yay!
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 43324	From: bill 1433	Date: 9/11/2009
Subject: Re: Baby Hillstream Loaches! yay!
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 43325	From: Cee Jaye	Date: 9/11/2009
Subject: My Oscar again:}
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 43326	From: bill 1433	Date: 9/11/2009
Subject: Re: My Oscar again:}
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 43327	From: Cee Jaye	Date: 9/11/2009
Subject: Regarding new tank (when the time comes) for Oscar
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 43328	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 9/11/2009
Subject: Re: My Oscar again:}
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 43329	From: Cee Jaye	Date: 9/11/2009
Subject: Re: My Oscar again:}
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 43330	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 9/11/2009
Subject: Re: Regarding new tank (when the time comes) for Oscar
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 43331	From: sevenspringss@wmconnect.com	Date: 9/11/2009
Subject: Re: My Oscar again:}
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 43332	From: sevenspringss@wmconnect.com	Date: 9/11/2009
Subject: Re: Regarding new tank (when the time comes) for Oscar
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 43333	From: kuradi8	Date: 9/11/2009
Subject: Re: Air Pumps
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 43334	From: Cee Jaye	Date: 9/11/2009
Subject: Re: My Oscar again:}
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 43335	From: Cee Jaye	Date: 9/11/2009
Subject: Re: Regarding new tank (when the time comes) for Oscar
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 43336	From: Cee Jaye	Date: 9/11/2009
Subject: Re: Regarding new tank // Ray
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 43337	From: biG poppa	Date: 9/11/2009
Subject: Re: Air Pumps
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 43338	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 9/11/2009
Subject: Re: Air Pumps
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 43339	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 9/11/2009
Subject: Re: Air Pumps
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 43340	From: kuradi8	Date: 9/11/2009
Subject: Re: Air Pumps
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 43341	From: biG poppa	Date: 9/11/2009
Subject: Re: Air Pumps
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 43342	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 9/11/2009
Subject: Re: Air Pumps
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 43343	From: Cee Jaye	Date: 9/11/2009
Subject: Re: Regarding new tank - In addition to. . .
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 43344	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 9/11/2009
Subject: Re: Air Pumps
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 43345	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 9/11/2009
Subject: Re: Regarding new tank - In addition to. . .
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 43346	From: Cee Jaye	Date: 9/11/2009
Subject: Re: Regarding new tank - In addition to. . .
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 43347	From: bill 1433	Date: 9/11/2009
Subject: Re: Regarding new tank - In addition to. . .
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 43348	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 9/11/2009
Subject: Re: Air Pumps
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 43349	From: kuradi8	Date: 9/11/2009
Subject: Re: Air Pumps
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 43350	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 9/11/2009
Subject: Re: Regarding new tank - In addition to. . .
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 43351	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 9/11/2009
Subject: Re: Air Pumps
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 43352	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 9/11/2009
Subject: Re: Air Pumps
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 43353	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 9/11/2009
Subject: Re: Air Pumps
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 43354	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 9/11/2009
Subject: Re: Regarding new tank - In addition to. . .
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 43355	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 9/11/2009
Subject: Re: Regarding new tank - In addition to. . .
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 43356	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 9/11/2009
Subject: Re: Air Pumps
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 43357	From: Heather	Date: 9/11/2009
Subject: Picked up my 65 gallon tonight
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 43358	From: Kevin E Boyle	Date: 9/11/2009
Subject: Re: Air Pumps
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 43359	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 9/11/2009
Subject: Re: Picked up my 65 gallon tonight
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 43360	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 9/11/2009
Subject: Re: Air Pumps
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 43361	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 9/11/2009
Subject: Re: Picked up my 65 gallon tonight
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 43362	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 9/11/2009
Subject: Re: Air Pumps
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 43363	From: Heather	Date: 9/11/2009
Subject: Re: Picked up my 65 gallon tonight
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 43364	From: Heather	Date: 9/11/2009
Subject: Lenny--RE: [AquaticLife] Picked up my 65 gallon tonight
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 43365	From: Heather	Date: 9/11/2009
Subject: Re: Picked up my 65 gallon tonight
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 43366	From: Heather	Date: 9/11/2009
Subject: Have a question about tank molding
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 43367	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 9/11/2009
Subject: Re: Lenny--RE: [AquaticLife] Picked up my 65 gallon tonight
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 43368	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 9/11/2009
Subject: Re: Have a question about tank molding
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 43369	From: Heather	Date: 9/11/2009
Subject: Re: Have a question about tank molding
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 43370	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 9/12/2009
Subject: Scouting Louis Agassiz's Personal Assistant
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 43371	From: kuradi8	Date: 9/12/2009
Subject: Re: Air Pumps
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 43372	From: Donna Ransome	Date: 9/12/2009
Subject: Re: Regarding new tank - In addition to. . .
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 43373	From: Donna Ransome	Date: 9/12/2009
Subject: Re: Lenny--RE: [AquaticLife] Picked up my 65 gallon tonight
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 43374	From: Heather	Date: 9/12/2009
Subject: Re: Lenny--RE: [AquaticLife] Picked up my 65 gallon tonight
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 43375	From: Heather	Date: 9/12/2009
Subject: Pics of my tank and stand
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 43376	From: bill 1433	Date: 9/12/2009
Subject: Re: Air Pumps
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 43377	From: Donna Ransome	Date: 9/12/2009
Subject: Re: Lenny--RE: [AquaticLife] Picked up my 65 gallon tonight
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 43378	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 9/12/2009
Subject: Re: Have a question about tank molding
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 43379	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 9/12/2009
Subject: Re: Air Pumps
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 43380	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 9/12/2009
Subject: Re: Lenny--RE: [AquaticLife] Picked up my 65 gallon tonight
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 43381	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 9/12/2009
Subject: Re: Lenny--RE: [AquaticLife] Picked up my 65 gallon tonight
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 43382	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 9/12/2009
Subject: Re: Pics of my tank and stand
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 43383	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 9/12/2009
Subject: Re: Lenny--RE: [AquaticLife] Picked up my 65 gallon tonight
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 43384	From: bill 1433	Date: 9/12/2009
Subject: Re: Air Pumps
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 43385	From: fishdudeut	Date: 9/12/2009
Subject: All Levels checked out.
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 43386	From: Heather	Date: 9/12/2009
Subject: Re: Lenny--RE: [AquaticLife] Picked up my 65 gallon tonight
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 43387	From: Heather	Date: 9/12/2009
Subject: Re: Pics of my tank and stand
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 43388	From: Heather	Date: 9/12/2009
Subject: Re: Lenny--RE: [AquaticLife] Picked up my 65 gallon tonight
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 43389	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 9/12/2009
Subject: Re: All Levels checked out.
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 43390	From: Heather	Date: 9/12/2009
Subject: Re: Have a question about tank molding
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 43391	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 9/12/2009
Subject: Re: Lenny--RE: [AquaticLife] Picked up my 65 gallon tonight
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 43392	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 9/12/2009
Subject: Re: Have a question about tank molding
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 43393	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 9/12/2009
Subject: Re: Pics of my tank and stand
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 43394	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 9/12/2009
Subject: Re: Lenny--RE: [AquaticLife] Picked up my 65 gallon tonight
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 43395	From: Donna Ransome	Date: 9/12/2009
Subject: Re: Lenny--RE: [AquaticLife] Picked up my 65 gallon tonight
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 43396	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 9/12/2009
Subject: Re: Pics of my tank and stand
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 43397	From: Heather	Date: 9/12/2009
Subject: Re: Lenny--RE: [AquaticLife] Picked up my 65 gallon tonight
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 43398	From: Heather	Date: 9/12/2009
Subject: Re: Pics of my tank and stand
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 43399	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 9/12/2009
Subject: Re: Air Pumps
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 43400	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 9/12/2009
Subject: Re: Lenny--RE: [AquaticLife] Picked up my 65 gallon tonight
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 43401	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 9/12/2009
Subject: Re: Air Pumps
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 43402	From: bill 1433	Date: 9/12/2009
Subject: Re: Lenny--RE: [AquaticLife] Picked up my 65 gallon tonight
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 43403	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 9/12/2009
Subject: Re: Air Pumps
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 43404	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 9/12/2009
Subject: Y! Alert: Yahoo! Groups Blog - Login issues for Firefox users
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 43405	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 9/12/2009
Subject: Re: Y! Alert: Yahoo! Groups Blog - Login issues for Firefox users
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 43406	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 9/12/2009
Subject: Re: Y! Alert: Yahoo! Groups Blog - Login issues for Firefox users
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 43407	From: harry perry	Date: 9/13/2009
Subject: Re: Login issues/Opera
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 43408	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 9/13/2009
Subject: Re: Login issues/Opera
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 43409	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 9/13/2009
Subject: Re: Login issues/Opera
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 43410	From: Dora Smith	Date: 9/13/2009
Subject: Re: [Bulk] RE: [AquaticLife] Y! Alert: Yahoo! Groups Blog - Login is
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 43411	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 9/13/2009
Subject: Re: Login issues/Opera
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 43412	From: kuradi8	Date: 9/13/2009
Subject: Re: Login issues/Opera
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 43413	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 9/13/2009
Subject: Re: [Bulk] RE: [AquaticLife] Y! Alert: Yahoo! Groups Blog - Login is
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 43414	From: fishdudeut	Date: 9/13/2009
Subject: Molly and Salt.
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 43415	From: harry perry	Date: 9/13/2009
Subject: Re: Login issues/Opera/Lenny
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 43416	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 9/13/2009
Subject: Re: Molly and Salt.
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 43417	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 9/13/2009
Subject: Re: Molly and Salt.
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 43418	From: harry perry	Date: 9/13/2009
Subject: Re: Login issues/Opera
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 43419	From: harry perry	Date: 9/13/2009
Subject: Re: Login issues/Opera/Lenny
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 43420	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 9/13/2009
Subject: Re: Login issues/Opera/Lenny
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 43421	From: Dora Smith	Date: 9/13/2009
Subject: Re: [Bulk] RE: [Bulk] RE: [AquaticLife] Y! Alert: Yahoo! Groups Blog
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 43422	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 9/13/2009
Subject: Re: [Bulk] RE: [Bulk] RE: [AquaticLife] Y! Alert: Yahoo! Groups Blog
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 43423	From: harry perry	Date: 9/13/2009
Subject: Re: Login issues/Opera/Lenny/again
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 43424	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 9/13/2009
Subject: Re: Login issues/Opera/Lenny/again
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 43425	From: Dora Smith	Date: 9/13/2009
Subject: Re: Y! Alert: Yahoo! Groups Blog - Login issues for Firefox users
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 43426	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 9/13/2009
Subject: Re: Login issues/Opera/Lenny
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 43427	From: fishdudeut	Date: 9/13/2009
Subject: Re: Molly and Salt.
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 43428	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 9/13/2009
Subject: Re: Login issues/Opera/Lenny
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 43429	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 9/13/2009
Subject: Re: Molly and Salt.
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 43430	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 9/13/2009
Subject: Re: Molly and Salt.
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 43431	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 9/13/2009
Subject: Re: Login issues/Opera/Lenny
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 43432	From: kuradi8	Date: 9/14/2009
Subject: Re: Login issues/Opera
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 43433	From: greychildren	Date: 9/14/2009
Subject: fish keeping software
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 43434	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 9/14/2009
Subject: Re: fish keeping software
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 43435	From: bill 1433	Date: 9/14/2009
Subject: Re: fish keeping software
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 43436	From: biG poppa	Date: 9/14/2009
Subject: Re: fish keeping software
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 43437	From: biG poppa	Date: 9/14/2009
Subject: Re: fish keeping software
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 43438	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 9/14/2009
Subject: Re: fish keeping software
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 43439	From: Menagerie_Manager	Date: 9/14/2009
Subject: Re: fish keeping software
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 43440	From: Menagerie_Manager	Date: 9/14/2009
Subject: Re: fish keeping software
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 43441	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 9/14/2009
Subject: Re: fish keeping software
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 43442	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 9/14/2009
Subject: National Aquatic Animal Health Plan for the United States; October 2
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 43443	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 9/14/2009
Subject: Four-eyed fish born in aquarium - Telegraph
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 43444	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 9/15/2009
Subject: GARDEN SNAKES CAN BE DANGEROUS FOR POND AND WATER GARDEN KEEPERS
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 43445	From: sevenspringss@wmconnect.com	Date: 9/15/2009
Subject: Re: GARDEN SNAKES CAN BE DANGEROUS FOR POND AND WATER GARDEN KE...
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 43446	From: lisa_lawless2004	Date: 9/15/2009
Subject: BN catfish not growing
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 43447	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 9/15/2009
Subject: Re: GARDEN SNAKES CAN BE DANGEROUS FOR POND AND WATER GARDEN KE...
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 43448	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 9/15/2009
Subject: Re: BN catfish not growing
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 43449	From: sevenspringss@wmconnect.com	Date: 9/15/2009
Subject: Re: GARDEN SNAKES CAN BE DANGEROUS FOR POND AND WATER GARDEN KE...
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 43450	From: sandi turner	Date: 9/15/2009
Subject: Re: GARDEN SNAKES CAN BE DANGEROUS FOR POND AND WATER GARDEN KEEPERS
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 43451	From: clandestine662002	Date: 9/15/2009
Subject: black belt cichlids
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 43452	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 9/15/2009
Subject: Re: black belt cichlids
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 43453	From: Lisa Lawless	Date: 9/15/2009
Subject: Re; BN not growing
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 43454	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 9/15/2009
Subject: Re: Re; BN not growing
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 43455	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 9/15/2009
Subject: Re: Y! Alert: Yahoo! Groups Blog - Login issues for Firefox users
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 43456	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 9/15/2009
Subject: Coral reefs create variety for aquariums
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 43457	From: sevenspringss@wmconnect.com	Date: 9/16/2009
Subject: Re: black belt cichlids
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 43458	From: Lisa Lawless	Date: 9/16/2009
Subject: re - BN not growing
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 43459	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 9/16/2009
Subject: Re: re - BN not growing
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 43460	From: robbrouse	Date: 9/16/2009
Subject: Re: Re; BN not growing
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 43461	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 9/16/2009
Subject: Law of Concern
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 43462	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 9/16/2009
Subject: Re: Law of Concern
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 43463	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 9/16/2009
Subject: Re: re - BN not growing
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 43464	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 9/16/2009
Subject: Re: re - BN not growing
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 43465	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 9/16/2009
Subject: Re: re - BN not growing
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 43466	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 9/16/2009
Subject: Re: re - BN not growing
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 43467	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 9/16/2009
Subject: Re: re - BN not growing
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 43468	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 9/17/2009
Subject: Re: re - BN not growing
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 43469	From: Lisa	Date: 9/17/2009
Subject: Re: re - BN not growing
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 43470	From: Lisa	Date: 9/17/2009
Subject: Re: re - BN not growing
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 43471	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 9/17/2009
Subject: Re: re - BN not growing
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 43472	From: sevenspringss@wmconnect.com	Date: 9/17/2009
Subject: Re: Law of Concern
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 43473	From: Wendie	Date: 9/17/2009
Subject: Re: re - BN not growing
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 43474	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 9/17/2009
Subject: Re: re - BN not growing
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 43475	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 9/17/2009
Subject: Re: re - BN not growing
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 43476	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 9/17/2009
Subject: Re: Law of Concern
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 43477	From: Lisa Lawless	Date: 9/18/2009
Subject: re; BN not growing
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 43478	From: kuradi8	Date: 9/18/2009
Subject: Re: Law of Concern
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 43479	From: mattyobones	Date: 9/18/2009
Subject: Re: Law of Concern
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 43480	From: robbrouse	Date: 9/18/2009
Subject: Heaters.
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 43481	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 9/18/2009
Subject: Re: re; BN not growing
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 43482	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 9/18/2009
Subject: Re: Heaters.
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 43483	From: Menagerie_Manager	Date: 9/18/2009
Subject: Re: Heaters.
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 43484	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 9/18/2009
Subject: Re: Heaters.
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 43485	From: Menagerie_Manager	Date: 9/18/2009
Subject: Re: Heaters.
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 43486	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 9/18/2009
Subject: Re: Law of Concern
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 43487	From: Cee Jaye	Date: 9/18/2009
Subject: Oscar Update
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 43488	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 9/18/2009
Subject: OT: For Our Hebrew Members
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 43489	From: sevenspringss@wmconnect.com	Date: 9/19/2009
Subject: Re: Oscar Update
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 43490	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 9/19/2009
Subject: Re: Law of Concern
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 43491	From: adonaikam	Date: 9/19/2009
Subject: Koi angel is laying eggs
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 43492	From: Cee Jaye	Date: 9/19/2009
Subject: Re: Oscar Update
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 43493	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 9/19/2009
Subject: Re: Koi angel is laying eggs
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 43494	From: pam andress	Date: 9/19/2009
Subject: Re: Koi angel is laying eggs
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 43495	From: adonaikam	Date: 9/19/2009
Subject: Re: Koi angel is laying eggs
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 43496	From: bill 1433	Date: 9/20/2009
Subject: Black Algae Problem
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 43497	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 9/20/2009
Subject: Re: Black Algae Problem
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 43498	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 9/20/2009
Subject: Re: Black Algae Problem
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 43499	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 9/20/2009
Subject: Re: Black Algae Problem
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 43500	From: Donna Ransome	Date: 9/21/2009
Subject: Re: Black Algae Problem
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 43501	From: bill 1433	Date: 9/21/2009
Subject: Re: Black Algae Problem
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 43502	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 9/21/2009
Subject: Re: Black Algae Problem
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 43503	From: bill 1433	Date: 9/21/2009
Subject: Re: Black Algae Problem
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 43504	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 9/21/2009
Subject: Re: Black Algae Problem
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 43505	From: bill 1433	Date: 9/21/2009
Subject: Re: Black Algae Problem
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 43506	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 9/21/2009
Subject: Re: Black Algae Problem
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 43507	From: bill 1433	Date: 9/21/2009
Subject: Re: Black Algae Problem
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 43508	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 9/21/2009
Subject: Re: Black Algae Problem
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 43509	From: kuradi8	Date: 9/21/2009
Subject: Re: Air Pumps
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 43510	From: yofiguy	Date: 9/21/2009
Subject: Re: OT: For Our Hebrew Members
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 43511	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 9/21/2009
Subject: Re: Air Pumps
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 43512	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 9/21/2009
Subject: Re: Air Pumps
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 43513	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 9/21/2009
Subject: Re: Black Algae Problem
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 43514	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 9/21/2009
Subject: Re: Black Algae Problem
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 43515	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 9/21/2009
Subject: Baby mystery snails and question about duckweed.
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 43516	From: bill 1433	Date: 9/21/2009
Subject: Re: Black Algae Problem
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 43517	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 9/21/2009
Subject: Re: Black Algae Problem
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 43518	From: Cee Jaye	Date: 9/21/2009
Subject: Tank upgrade
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 43519	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 9/21/2009
Subject: Re: Black Algae Problem
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 43520	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 9/21/2009
Subject: Re: Black Algae Problem
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 43521	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 9/21/2009
Subject: Re: Baby mystery snails and question about duckweed.
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 43522	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 9/21/2009
Subject: Re: Tank upgrade
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 43523	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 9/21/2009
Subject: Re: Black Algae Problem
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 43524	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 9/21/2009
Subject: Re: Black Algae Problem
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 43525	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 9/21/2009
Subject: Re: Tank upgrade
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 43526	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 9/21/2009
Subject: Re: Baby mystery snails and question about duckweed.
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 43527	From: Cee Jaye	Date: 9/21/2009
Subject: Re: Tank upgrade
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 43528	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 9/21/2009
Subject: Re: Baby mystery snails and question about duckweed.
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 43529	From: bill 1433	Date: 9/21/2009
Subject: Re: Black Algae Problem
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 43530	From: bill 1433	Date: 9/21/2009
Subject: Re: Black Algae Problem
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 43531	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 9/21/2009
Subject: Re: Black Algae Problem
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 43532	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 9/22/2009
Subject: Re: Tank upgrade
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 43533	From: ''Grey'' Geyerman	Date: 9/22/2009
Subject: Re: Tank upgrade
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 43534	From: pam andress	Date: 9/22/2009
Subject: Re: Baby mystery snails and question about duckweed.
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 43535	From: Donna Ransome	Date: 9/22/2009
Subject: Re: Black Algae Problem
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 43536	From: Donna Ransome	Date: 9/22/2009
Subject: Re: Black Algae Problem
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 43537	From: bill 1433	Date: 9/22/2009
Subject: Re: Black Algae Problem
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 43538	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 9/22/2009
Subject: Re: Black Algae Problem
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 43539	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 9/22/2009
Subject: Re: Black Algae Problem
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 43540	From: bill 1433	Date: 9/22/2009
Subject: Re: Black Algae Problem
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 43541	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 9/22/2009
Subject: Re: Black Algae Problem
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 43542	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 9/22/2009
Subject: Re: Baby mystery snails and question about duckweed.
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 43543	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 9/22/2009
Subject: PIJAC's "Don't Mess With My Pet"
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 43544	From: fishlover_james_s	Date: 9/22/2009
Subject: Re: Koi angel is laying eggs
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 43545	From: Derek	Date: 9/22/2009
Subject: Tank Repair?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 43546	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 9/22/2009
Subject: Re: PIJAC's "Don't Mess With My Pet"
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 43547	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 9/22/2009
Subject: Re: Tank Repair?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 43548	From: jett07002	Date: 9/23/2009
Subject: Re: Black Algae Problem
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 43549	From: bill 1433	Date: 9/23/2009
Subject: Re: Black Algae Problem
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 43550	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 9/23/2009
Subject: Re: Black Algae Problem
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 43551	From: pam andress	Date: 9/23/2009
Subject: Re: Koi angel is laying eggs
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 43552	From: gailsugarpants	Date: 9/23/2009
Subject: Re: black belt cichlids
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 43553	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 9/23/2009
Subject: Re: Black Algae Problem
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 43554	From: bill 1433	Date: 9/23/2009
Subject: Re: Black Algae Problem
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 43555	From: kuradi8	Date: 9/24/2009
Subject: Voracious!
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 43556	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 9/24/2009
Subject: Re: Voracious!
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 43557	From: bill 1433	Date: 9/24/2009
Subject: Re: Voracious!
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 43558	From: kuradi8	Date: 9/24/2009
Subject: Re: Voracious!
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 43559	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 9/24/2009
Subject: Re: Voracious!
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 43560	From: kuradi8	Date: 9/24/2009
Subject: Re: Voracious!
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 43561	From: robbrouse	Date: 9/24/2009
Subject: fish food
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 43562	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 9/24/2009
Subject: Re: fish food
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 43563	From: Dora Smith	Date: 9/24/2009
Subject: Re: fish food
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 43564	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 9/24/2009
Subject: Free Aquarium (4000 Gallons)
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 43565	From: bill 1433	Date: 9/24/2009
Subject: Re: Free Aquarium (4000 Gallons)
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 43566	From: pam andress	Date: 9/24/2009
Subject: Re: Free Aquarium (4000 Gallons)
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 43567	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 9/24/2009
Subject: Re: Free Aquarium (4000 Gallons)
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 43568	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 9/24/2009
Subject: Re: Free Aquarium (4000 Gallons)
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 43569	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 9/24/2009
Subject: Re: Free Aquarium (4000 Gallons)
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 43570	From: Heather	Date: 9/24/2009
Subject: Re: Free Aquarium (4000 Gallons)
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 43571	From: biG poppa	Date: 9/24/2009
Subject: Re: Free Aquarium (4000 Gallons)
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 43572	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 9/24/2009
Subject: Re: Free Aquarium (4000 Gallons)
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 43573	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 9/24/2009
Subject: Re: Free Aquarium (4000 Gallons)
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 43574	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 9/24/2009
Subject: Re: Free Aquarium (4000 Gallons)
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 43575	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 9/24/2009
Subject: Re: Free Aquarium (4000 Gallons)
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 43576	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 9/24/2009
Subject: Re: Free Aquarium (4000 Gallons)
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 43577	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 9/24/2009
Subject: Re: Free Aquarium (4000 Gallons)
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 43578	From: pam andress	Date: 9/24/2009
Subject: Re: Free Aquarium (4000 Gallons)
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 43579	From: Heather	Date: 9/25/2009
Subject: Re: Free Aquarium (4000 Gallons)
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 43580	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 9/25/2009
Subject: Re: Free Aquarium (4000 Gallons)
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 43581	From: bill 1433	Date: 9/25/2009
Subject: Re: Free Aquarium (4000 Gallons)
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 43582	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 9/25/2009
Subject: Re: Free Aquarium (4000 Gallons)
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 43583	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 9/25/2009
Subject: Re: Free Aquarium (4000 Gallons)
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 43584	From: bill 1433	Date: 9/25/2009
Subject: Re: Free Aquarium (4000 Gallons)
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 43585	From: bill 1433	Date: 9/25/2009
Subject: Re: Free Aquarium (4000 Gallons)
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 43586	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 9/25/2009
Subject: Re: Free Aquarium (4000 Gallons)
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 43587	From: Heather	Date: 9/25/2009
Subject: Re: Free Aquarium (4000 Gallons)
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 43588	From: bill 1433	Date: 9/25/2009
Subject: Re: Free Aquarium (4000 Gallons)
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 43589	From: gailsugarpants	Date: 9/25/2009
Subject: Rocks for your aquarium
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 43590	From: jett07002	Date: 9/25/2009
Subject: Re: Free Aquarium (4000 Gallons)
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 43591	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 9/25/2009
Subject: Re: Rocks for your aquarium
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 43592	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 9/25/2009
Subject: Re: Rocks for your aquarium
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 43593	From: harry perry	Date: 9/25/2009
Subject: Re: Rocks for your aquarium/Lenny
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 43594	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 9/25/2009
Subject: Re: Rocks for your aquarium/Lenny-Photography links
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 43595	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 9/25/2009
Subject: Re: Free Aquarium (4000 Gallons)
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 43596	From: kuradi8	Date: 9/25/2009
Subject: Re: Rocks for your aquarium
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 43597	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 9/25/2009
Subject: Re: Free Aquarium (4000 Gallons)
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 43598	From: Troy	Date: 9/25/2009
Subject: Re: Rocks for your aquarium
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 43599	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 9/25/2009
Subject: Re: Free Aquarium (4000 Gallons)
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 43600	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 9/26/2009
Subject: Aquarium comes up with unique way to save coral reefs
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 43601	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 9/26/2009
Subject: Re: Free Aquarium (4000 Gallons)
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 43602	From: Dora Smith	Date: 9/26/2009
Subject: Re: Rocks for your aquarium
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 43603	From: werepossums	Date: 9/26/2009
Subject: Re: Re; BN not growing
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 43604	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 9/27/2009
Subject: Re: Free Aquarium (4000 Gallons)
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 43605	From: bill 1433	Date: 9/27/2009
Subject: Re: Free Aquarium (4000 Gallons)
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 43606	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 9/27/2009
Subject: Re: Free Aquarium (4000 Gallons)
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 43607	From: bill 1433	Date: 9/27/2009
Subject: Re: Free Aquarium (4000 Gallons)
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 43608	From: harry perry	Date: 9/27/2009
Subject: Re: Free Aquarium (4000 Gallons)/so
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 43609	From: bill 1433	Date: 9/27/2009
Subject: Re: Free Aquarium (4000 Gallons)/so
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 43610	From: Cee Jaye	Date: 9/27/2009
Subject: Rocks
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 43611	From: bill 1433	Date: 9/27/2009
Subject: Re: Rocks
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 43612	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 9/27/2009
Subject: Re: Free Aquarium (4000 Gallons)/so
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 43613	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 9/27/2009
Subject: Re: Free Aquarium (4000 Gallons)/so
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 43614	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 9/27/2009
Subject: Re: Rocks
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 43615	From: sevenspringss@wmconnect.com	Date: 9/27/2009
Subject: Re: Free Aquarium (4000 Gallons)/so
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 43616	From: Deenerz@aol.com	Date: 9/27/2009
Subject: Re: Free Aquarium (4000 Gallons)/so
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 43617	From: Deenerz@aol.com	Date: 9/27/2009
Subject: Re: Free Aquarium (4000 Gallons)/so
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 43618	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 9/27/2009
Subject: Re: Free Aquarium (4000 Gallons)/so
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 43619	From: Menagerie_Manager	Date: 9/27/2009
Subject: Re: Free Aquarium (4000 Gallons)/so
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 43620	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 9/27/2009
Subject: Re: Free Aquarium (4000 Gallons)/so
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 43621	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 9/27/2009
Subject: Re: Free Aquarium (4000 Gallons)/so
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 43622	From: gailsugarpants	Date: 9/27/2009
Subject: Re: Rocks for your aquarium
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 43623	From: Deenerz@aol.com	Date: 9/27/2009
Subject: Re: Free Aquarium (4000 Gallons)/so
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 43624	From: Garry Peak	Date: 9/27/2009
Subject: Jack Dempseys
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 43625	From: bill 1433	Date: 9/27/2009
Subject: Re: Jack Dempseys
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 43626	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 9/27/2009
Subject: 5 Creative aquarium designs | 1 Design Per Day
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 43627	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 9/27/2009
Subject: Portable Aquarium
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 43628	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 9/27/2009
Subject: Re: Portable Aquarium
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 43629	From: Dora Smith	Date: 9/27/2009
Subject: Re: Portable Aquarium
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 43630	From: Garry Peak	Date: 9/27/2009
Subject: Re: Jack Dempseys
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 43631	From: bill 1433	Date: 9/27/2009
Subject: Re: Jack Dempseys
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 43632	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 9/27/2009
Subject: Re: Jack Dempseys
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 43633	From: Menagerie_Manager	Date: 9/27/2009
Subject: Re: Free Aquarium (4000 Gallons)/so
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 43634	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 9/28/2009
Subject: Re: Portable Aquarium
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 43635	From: kuradi8	Date: 9/28/2009
Subject: Re: Portable Aquarium
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 43636	From: William M	Date: 9/28/2009
Subject: Re: Free Aquarium (4000 Gallons)/so
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 43637	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 9/28/2009
Subject: Snail with black beard algae growing on it's shell
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 43638	From: Deenerz@aol.com	Date: 9/28/2009
Subject: Re: Snail with black beard algae growing on it's shell
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 43639	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 9/28/2009
Subject: Re: Snail with black beard algae growing on it's shell
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 43640	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 9/29/2009
Subject: Re: Snail with black beard algae growing on it's shell
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 43641	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 9/29/2009
Subject: Re: Snail with black beard algae growing on it's shell
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 43642	From: Lainey Alexander	Date: 9/29/2009
Subject: Dead olive nerite snails
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 43643	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 9/29/2009
Subject: Re: Dead olive nerite snails
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 43644	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 9/29/2009
Subject: Re: Dead olive nerite snails
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 43645	From: Donna Ransome	Date: 9/30/2009
Subject: Re: Dead olive nerite snails
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 43646	From: Trycya	Date: 9/30/2009
Subject: Khuli loaches and Dojo loaches
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 43647	From: Rev. Eric Roberts	Date: 9/30/2009
Subject: Re: Khuli loaches and Dojo loaches
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 43648	From: Lainey Alexander	Date: 9/30/2009
Subject: Re: Dead olive nerite snails
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 43649	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 9/30/2009
Subject: Re: Dead olive nerite snails
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 43650	From: Cee Jaye	Date: 9/30/2009
Subject: CL 4000gal free tank
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 43651	From: Lainey Alexander	Date: 9/30/2009
Subject: Re: Dead olive nerite snails
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 43652	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 9/30/2009
Subject: Re: Khuli loaches and Dojo loaches
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 43653	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 9/30/2009
Subject: Re: CL 4000gal free tank
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 43654	From: Rev. Eric Roberts	Date: 9/30/2009
Subject: Re: Khuli loaches and Dojo loaches
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 43655	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 9/30/2009
Subject: Re: Dead olive nerite snails
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 43656	From: Lainey Alexander	Date: 9/30/2009
Subject: Another corpse question, sorry
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 43657	From: Lainey Alexander	Date: 9/30/2009
Subject: Re: Dead olive nerite snails
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 43658	From: Donna Ransome	Date: 9/30/2009
Subject: Re: Dead olive nerite snails
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 43659	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 9/30/2009
Subject: Re: Another corpse question, sorry
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 43660	From: Donna Ransome	Date: 9/30/2009
Subject: Re: Dead olive nerite snails
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 43661	From: Cee Jaye	Date: 10/1/2009
Subject: Re: CL 4000gal free tank
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 43662	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 10/1/2009
Subject: Baby snails, everywhere.
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 43663	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 10/2/2009
Subject: BN Pleco's
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 43664	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 10/2/2009
Subject: Bloated dwarf gourami
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 43665	From: Lainey Alexander	Date: 10/2/2009
Subject: Feeding carnivores
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 43666	From: bill 1433	Date: 10/2/2009
Subject: Re: Feeding carnivores
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 43667	From: biG poppa	Date: 10/2/2009
Subject: Re: Bloated dwarf gourami
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 43668	From: Lainey Alexander	Date: 10/2/2009
Subject: Re: Feeding carnivores
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 43669	From: sevenspringss@wmconnect.com	Date: 10/3/2009
Subject: Re: Feeding carnivores
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 43670	From: kuradi8	Date: 10/3/2009
Subject: Re: Feeding carnivores
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 43671	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 10/3/2009
Subject: Buttkiss, the 41 Year Old Pacu - Paw Nation
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 43672	From: Lainey Alexander	Date: 10/3/2009
Subject: Re: Feeding carnivores
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 43673	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 10/3/2009
Subject: Re: Feeding carnivores
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 43674	From: Donna Ransome	Date: 10/3/2009
Subject: Re: Feeding carnivores
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 43675	From: Lainey Alexander	Date: 10/6/2009
Subject: Questions about water
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 43676	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 10/6/2009
Subject: Re: Questions about water
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 43677	From: bill 1433	Date: 10/6/2009
Subject: Re: Questions about water
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 43678	From: Lainey Alexander	Date: 10/6/2009
Subject: Re: Questions about water
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 43679	From: bill 1433	Date: 10/6/2009
Subject: Re: Questions about water
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 43680	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 10/6/2009
Subject: Re: Questions about water
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 43681	From: Cr3w66	Date: 10/6/2009
Subject: Saltwater Skimmer - Octopus BH 100F
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 43682	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 10/6/2009
Subject: Re: Saltwater Skimmer - Octopus BH 100F
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 43683	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 10/6/2009
Subject: Re: Questions about water
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 43684	From: biG poppa	Date: 10/6/2009
Subject: Re: Saltwater Skimmer - Octopus BH 100F
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 43685	From: Donna Ransome	Date: 10/6/2009
Subject: Re: Questions about water
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 43686	From: Lainey Alexander	Date: 10/6/2009
Subject: Re: Questions about water
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 43687	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 10/6/2009
Subject: Re: Questions about water
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 43688	From: robbrouse	Date: 10/7/2009
Subject: Re: Questions about water
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 43689	From: bill 1433	Date: 10/7/2009
Subject: Re: Questions about water
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 43690	From: robbrouse	Date: 10/7/2009
Subject: Re: Questions about water
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 43691	From: bill 1433	Date: 10/7/2009
Subject: Re: Questions about water
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 43692	From: robbrouse	Date: 10/7/2009
Subject: Re: Questions about water
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 43693	From: bill 1433	Date: 10/7/2009
Subject: Re: Questions about water
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 43694	From: Lainey Alexander	Date: 10/7/2009
Subject: Re: Questions about water
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 43695	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 10/7/2009
Subject: Re: Questions about water
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 43696	From: robbrouse	Date: 10/7/2009
Subject: Re: Questions about water
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 43697	From: Lainey Alexander	Date: 10/7/2009
Subject: Re: Questions about water
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 43698	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 10/7/2009
Subject: Re: Questions about water
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 43699	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 10/7/2009
Subject: Re: Questions about water
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 43700	From: bill 1433	Date: 10/8/2009
Subject: Re: Questions about water
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 43701	From: jett07002	Date: 10/8/2009
Subject: Re: Questions about water
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 43702	From: Lainey Alexander	Date: 10/8/2009
Subject: Re: Questions about water
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 43703	From: Lainey Alexander	Date: 10/8/2009
Subject: Re: Questions about water
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 43704	From: Lainey Alexander	Date: 10/8/2009
Subject: Re: Questions about water
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 43705	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 10/8/2009
Subject: Re: Questions about water
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 43706	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 10/8/2009
Subject: Re: Questions about water
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 43707	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 10/8/2009
Subject: Re: Questions about water
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 43708	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 10/8/2009
Subject: Re: Questions about water
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 43709	From: Lainey Alexander	Date: 10/8/2009
Subject: Re: Questions about water
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 43710	From: Lainey Alexander	Date: 10/8/2009
Subject: Re: Questions about water
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 43711	From: Lainey Alexander	Date: 10/8/2009
Subject: Re: Questions about water
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 43712	From: Lainey Alexander	Date: 10/8/2009
Subject: Re: Questions about water
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 43713	From: Deenerz@aol.com	Date: 10/8/2009
Subject: Re: Questions about water
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 43714	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 10/8/2009
Subject: Re: Questions about water
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 43715	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 10/8/2009
Subject: Re: Questions about water
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 43716	From: Lainey Alexander	Date: 10/9/2009
Subject: Re: Questions about water
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 43717	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 10/9/2009
Subject: Re: Questions about water
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 43718	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 10/9/2009
Subject: Car Safety And Fish
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 43719	From: kuradi8	Date: 10/10/2009
Subject: Re: Car Safety And Fish
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 43720	From: Lainey Alexander	Date: 10/10/2009
Subject: Re: Questions about water
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 43721	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 10/10/2009
Subject: Re: Questions about water
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 43722	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 10/10/2009
Subject: OT: Holy Crap! Mile of Manatee Poop Comes Ashore
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 43723	From: Menagerie_Manager	Date: 10/10/2009
Subject: Re: Car Safety And Fish
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 43724	From: Menagerie_Manager	Date: 10/10/2009
Subject: Re: Car Safety And Fish
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 43725	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 10/10/2009
Subject: Re: Car Safety And Fish
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 43726	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 10/10/2009
Subject: Re: Car Safety And Fish
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 43727	From: Lainey Alexander	Date: 10/10/2009
Subject: Re: Questions about water
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 43728	From: bill 1433	Date: 10/10/2009
Subject: API's Tap Water Conditioner
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 43729	From: Dora Smith	Date: 10/10/2009
Subject: Re: API's Tap Water Conditioner
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 43730	From: Dora Smith	Date: 10/10/2009
Subject: Re: API's Tap Water Conditioner
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 43731	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 10/10/2009
Subject: Re: API's Tap Water Conditioner
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 43732	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 10/10/2009
Subject: Re: API's Tap Water Conditioner
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 43733	From: robbrouse	Date: 10/10/2009
Subject: Re: API's Tap Water Conditioner
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 43734	From: bill 1433	Date: 10/11/2009
Subject: Re: API's Tap Water Conditioner
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 43735	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 10/11/2009
Subject: Fish Clothing
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 43736	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 10/11/2009
Subject: Re: Fish Clothing
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 43737	From: Lainey Alexander	Date: 10/11/2009
Subject: Driftwood and tannins
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 43738	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 10/11/2009
Subject: Re: Fish Clothing
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 43739	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 10/11/2009
Subject: Re: Driftwood and tannins
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 43740	From: Lainey Alexander	Date: 10/11/2009
Subject: More water questions
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 43741	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 10/11/2009
Subject: Re: More water questions
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 43742	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 10/11/2009
Subject: Re: More water questions
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 43743	From: Lainey Alexander	Date: 10/11/2009
Subject: Re: More water questions
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 43744	From: bill 1433	Date: 10/11/2009
Subject: Re: More water questions
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 43745	From: Donna Ransome	Date: 10/11/2009
Subject: Re: More water questions
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 43746	From: Lainey Alexander	Date: 10/11/2009
Subject: Re: More water questions
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 43747	From: jett07002	Date: 10/12/2009
Subject: Re: Driftwood and tannins
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 43748	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 10/12/2009
Subject: Re: Driftwood and tannins
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 43749	From: Lainey Alexander	Date: 10/12/2009
Subject: Green water continued
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 43750	From: bill 1433	Date: 10/12/2009
Subject: Re: Green water continued
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 43751	From: Lainey Alexander	Date: 10/12/2009
Subject: Re: Green water continued
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 43752	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 10/12/2009
Subject: Re: Green water continued
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 43753	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 10/12/2009
Subject: Re: Green water continued
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 43754	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 10/12/2009
Subject: Re: Green water continued
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 43755	From: Lainey Alexander	Date: 10/12/2009
Subject: Re: Green water continued
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 43756	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 10/12/2009
Subject: Re: Green water continued
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 43757	From: jan1213@aol.com	Date: 10/13/2009
Subject: Tetra bloated?????
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 43758	From: creatureproductions	Date: 10/13/2009
Subject: Re: Green water continued
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 43759	From: gailsugarpants	Date: 10/13/2009
Subject: Re: Green water continued
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 43760	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 10/13/2009
Subject: Re: Green water continued
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 43761	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 10/13/2009
Subject: Re: Tetra bloated?????
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 43762	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 10/13/2009
Subject: Re: Tetra bloated?????
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 43763	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 10/13/2009
Subject: GRR, I hate my electric company!
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 43764	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 10/13/2009
Subject: Re: GRR, I hate my electric company!
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 43765	From: toddswoman496861@aim.com	Date: 10/13/2009
Subject: snails
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 43766	From: Deenerz@aol.com	Date: 10/13/2009
Subject: Re: GRR, I hate my electric company!
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 43767	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 10/13/2009
Subject: Re: snails
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 43768	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 10/13/2009
Subject: Re: GRR, I hate my electric company!
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 43769	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 10/13/2009
Subject: Re: snails
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 43770	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 10/13/2009
Subject: Re: snails
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 43771	From: Dora Smith	Date: 10/13/2009
Subject: Re: GRR, I hate my electric company!
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 43772	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 10/13/2009
Subject: Re: GRR, I hate my electric company!
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 43773	From: kuradi8	Date: 10/13/2009
Subject: Re: GRR, I hate my electric company!
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 43774	From: creatureproductions	Date: 10/13/2009
Subject: Re: GRR, I hate my electric company!
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 43775	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 10/13/2009
Subject: Re: GRR, I hate my electric company!
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 43776	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 10/13/2009
Subject: Re: GRR, I hate my electric company!
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 43777	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 10/13/2009
Subject: Re: GRR, I hate my electric company!
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 43778	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 10/13/2009
Subject: Re: GRR, I hate my electric company!
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 43779	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 10/13/2009
Subject: Re: GRR, I hate my electric company!
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 43780	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 10/13/2009
Subject: Re: GRR, I hate my electric company!
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 43781	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 10/14/2009
Subject: Re: GRR, I hate my electric company!
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 43782	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 10/14/2009
Subject: Re: GRR, I hate my electric company!
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 43783	From: bill 1433	Date: 10/14/2009
Subject: Re: GRR, I hate my electric company!
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 43784	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 10/14/2009
Subject: Re: GRR, I hate my electric company!
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 43785	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 10/14/2009
Subject: Re: GRR, I hate my electric company!
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 43786	From: bill 1433	Date: 10/14/2009
Subject: Re: GRR, I hate my electric company!
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 43787	From: Kevin Boyle	Date: 10/14/2009
Subject: Re: GRR, I hate my electric company!
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 43788	From: Menagerie_Manager	Date: 10/14/2009
Subject: Re: GRR, I hate my electric company!
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 43789	From: toddswoman496861@aim.com	Date: 10/14/2009
Subject: Re: snails
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 43790	From: toddswoman496861@aim.com	Date: 10/14/2009
Subject: Re: snails
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 43791	From: Lainey Alexander	Date: 10/14/2009
Subject: Re: Green water continued
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 43792	From: Lainey Alexander	Date: 10/14/2009
Subject: Re: Green water continued
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 43793	From: Lainey Alexander	Date: 10/14/2009
Subject: Re: Green water continued
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 43794	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 10/14/2009
Subject: Re: snails
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 43795	From: gailsugarpants	Date: 10/14/2009
Subject: Re: Green water continued
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 43796	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 10/14/2009
Subject: Re: GRR, I hate my electric company!
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 43797	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 10/14/2009
Subject: Re: GRR, I hate my electric company!
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 43798	From: bill 1433	Date: 10/14/2009
Subject: Re: GRR, I hate my electric company!
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 43799	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 10/14/2009
Subject: Re: GRR, I hate my electric company!
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 43800	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 10/14/2009
Subject: Re: GRR, I hate my electric company!
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 43801	From: biG poppa	Date: 10/14/2009
Subject: Re: Green water continued
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 43802	From: bill 1433	Date: 10/14/2009
Subject: Re: GRR, I hate my electric company!
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 43803	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 10/14/2009
Subject: Re: snails
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 43804	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 10/14/2009
Subject: Re: Green water continued
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 43805	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 10/14/2009
Subject: Re: Green water continued
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 43806	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 10/14/2009
Subject: Re: Green water continued
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 43807	From: biG poppa	Date: 10/14/2009
Subject: Re: GRR, I hate my electric company!
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 43808	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 10/14/2009
Subject: Re: GRR, I hate my electric company!
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 43809	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 10/14/2009
Subject: Re: GRR, I hate my electric company!
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 43810	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 10/14/2009
Subject: Re: GRR, I hate my electric company!
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 43811	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 10/14/2009
Subject: Re: GRR, I hate my electric company!
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 43812	From: Donna Ransome	Date: 10/14/2009
Subject: Re: GRR, I hate my electric company!
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 43813	From: toddswoman496861@aim.com	Date: 10/14/2009
Subject: Re: snails
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 43814	From: greychildren	Date: 10/14/2009
Subject: soil good old soil
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 43815	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 10/14/2009
Subject: Re: soil good old soil
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 43816	From: biG poppa	Date: 10/14/2009
Subject: Re: GRR, I hate my electric company!
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 43817	From: Donna Ransome	Date: 10/14/2009
Subject: That'll Teach Him!
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 43818	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 10/14/2009
Subject: Re: That'll Teach Him!
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 43819	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 10/14/2009
Subject: Re: soil good old soil
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 43820	From: toddswoman496861@aim.com	Date: 10/15/2009
Subject: Re: snails
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 43821	From: gailsugarpants	Date: 10/15/2009
Subject: Re: Green water continued
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 43822	From: Lainey Alexander	Date: 10/15/2009
Subject: Re: Green water continued
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 43823	From: Lainey Alexander	Date: 10/15/2009
Subject: Re: Green water continued
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 43824	From: Lainey Alexander	Date: 10/15/2009
Subject: Re: Green water continued
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 43825	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 10/15/2009
Subject: Re: Green water continued
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 43826	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 10/15/2009
Subject: Re: Green water continued
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 43827	From: bill 1433	Date: 10/15/2009
Subject: Re: Green water continued
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 43828	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 10/15/2009
Subject: Re: Green water continued
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 43829	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 10/15/2009
Subject: Re: Green water continued
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 43830	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 10/15/2009
Subject: Re: Green water continued
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 43831	From: sevenspringss@wmconnect.com	Date: 10/15/2009
Subject: Re: Green water continued
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 43832	From: Lainey Alexander	Date: 10/15/2009
Subject: Re: Green water continued
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 43833	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 10/15/2009
Subject: Re: Green water continued
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 43834	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 10/15/2009
Subject: Re: Green water continued
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 43835	From: Lainey Alexander	Date: 10/15/2009
Subject: Re: Green water continued
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 43836	From: sevenspringss@wmconnect.com	Date: 10/15/2009
Subject: Re: Green water continued
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 43837	From: Lainey Alexander	Date: 10/15/2009
Subject: Re: Green water continued
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 43838	From: Lainey Alexander	Date: 10/15/2009
Subject: Re: Green water continued
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 43839	From: bill 1433	Date: 10/15/2009
Subject: Re: Green water continued
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 43840	From: sevenspringss@wmconnect.com	Date: 10/15/2009
Subject: Re: Green water continued
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 43841	From: Lainey Alexander	Date: 10/15/2009
Subject: Re: Green water continued
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 43842	From: gailsugarpants	Date: 10/15/2009
Subject: Re: That'll Teach Him!
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 43843	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 10/15/2009
Subject: Re: Green water continued
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 43844	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 10/15/2009
Subject: Re: Green water continued
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 43845	From: Lainey Alexander	Date: 10/15/2009
Subject: Re: Green water continued
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 43846	From: Lainey Alexander	Date: 10/15/2009
Subject: Re: Green water continued
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 43847	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 10/15/2009
Subject: Re: Green water continued
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 43848	From: bill 1433	Date: 10/15/2009
Subject: Re: Green water continued
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 43849	From: bill 1433	Date: 10/15/2009
Subject: Re: Green water continued
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 43850	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 10/15/2009
Subject: Re: Green water continued
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 43851	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 10/15/2009
Subject: Re: That'll Teach Him!
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 43852	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 10/15/2009
Subject: Re: Green water continued
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 43853	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 10/15/2009
Subject: Re: Green water continued
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 43854	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 10/15/2009
Subject: Re: Green water continued
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 43855	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 10/15/2009
Subject: Re: Green water continued
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 43856	From: bill 1433	Date: 10/15/2009
Subject: Re: Green water continued
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 43857	From: toddswoman496861@aim.com	Date: 10/15/2009
Subject: Re: Green water continued
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 43858	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 10/15/2009
Subject: Re: Green water continued
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 43859	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 10/15/2009
Subject: Re: Green water continued
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 43860	From: Lainey Alexander	Date: 10/15/2009
Subject: Re: Green water continued
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 43861	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 10/15/2009
Subject: Re: Green water continued
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 43862	From: Lainey Alexander	Date: 10/15/2009
Subject: OOPS re green water
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 43863	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 10/15/2009
Subject: Re: WAS: Green water continued NOW: Lighting Q's
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 43864	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 10/15/2009
Subject: Re: WAS: Green water continued NOW: Lighting Q's
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 43865	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 10/15/2009
Subject: Re: OOPS re green water
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 43866	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 10/15/2009
Subject: Re: WAS: Green water continued NOW: Lighting Q's
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 43867	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 10/15/2009
Subject: Re: WAS: Green water continued NOW: Lighting Q's
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 43868	From: bill 1433	Date: 10/16/2009
Subject: Re: OOPS re green water
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 43869	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 10/16/2009
Subject: Re: OOPS re green water
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 43870	From: Lainey Alexander	Date: 10/16/2009
Subject: Re: OOPS re green water
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 43871	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 10/16/2009
Subject: Re: OOPS re green water
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 43872	From: bill 1433	Date: 10/16/2009
Subject: The T-5 Business Len/Amber?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 43873	From: bill 1433	Date: 10/16/2009
Subject: Re: OOPS re green water
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 43874	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 10/16/2009
Subject: Re: OOPS re green water
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 43875	From: bill 1433	Date: 10/16/2009
Subject: Re: OOPS re green water
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 43876	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 10/16/2009
Subject: Re: OOPS re green water
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 43877	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 10/16/2009
Subject: Re: OOPS re green water
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 43878	From: sevenspringss@wmconnect.com	Date: 10/16/2009
Subject: Re: OOPS re green water
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 43879	From: bill 1433	Date: 10/16/2009
Subject: Re: OOPS re green water
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 43880	From: bill 1433	Date: 10/16/2009
Subject: Re: OOPS re green water
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 43881	From: bill 1433	Date: 10/16/2009
Subject: Re: OOPS re green water
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 43882	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 10/16/2009
Subject: Re: OOPS re green water
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 43883	From: Deenerz@aol.com	Date: 10/16/2009
Subject: Re: OOPS re green water
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 43884	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 10/16/2009
Subject: Re: OOPS re green water
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 43885	From: Deenerz@aol.com	Date: 10/16/2009
Subject: Re: OOPS re green water
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 43886	From: bill 1433	Date: 10/16/2009
Subject: Re: OOPS re green water
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 43887	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 10/16/2009
Subject: Re: The T-5 Business Len/Amber?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 43888	From: bill 1433	Date: 10/16/2009
Subject: Re: The T-5 Business Len/Amber?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 43889	From: Donna Ransome	Date: 10/16/2009
Subject: Re: The T-5 Business Len/Amber?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 43890	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 10/16/2009
Subject: Re: The T-5 Business Len/Amber?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 43891	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 10/16/2009
Subject: Re: OOPS re green water
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 43892	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 10/16/2009
Subject: Re: OOPS re green water
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 43893	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 10/16/2009
Subject: Re: OOPS re green water
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 43894	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 10/16/2009
Subject: Re: OOPS re green water
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 43895	From: kuradi8	Date: 10/16/2009
Subject: Re: OOPS re green water
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 43896	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 10/16/2009
Subject: Re: OOPS re green water
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 43897	From: Lainey Alexander	Date: 10/16/2009
Subject: Re: OOPS re green water
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 43898	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 10/16/2009
Subject: Re: OOPS re green water
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 43899	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 10/16/2009
Subject: Re: OOPS re green water
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 43900	From: Lainey Alexander	Date: 10/16/2009
Subject: Re: OOPS re green water
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 43901	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 10/16/2009
Subject: Re: OOPS re green water
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 43902	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 10/16/2009
Subject: Re: OOPS re green water
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 43903	From: bill 1433	Date: 10/16/2009
Subject: Re: The T-5 Business Len/Amber?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 43904	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 10/16/2009
Subject: Re: OOPS re green water
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 43905	From: Lainey Alexander	Date: 10/16/2009
Subject: Re: OOPS re green water
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 43906	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 10/16/2009
Subject: Re: OOPS re green water
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 43907	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 10/16/2009
Subject: Re: OOPS re green water
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 43908	From: Lainey Alexander	Date: 10/16/2009
Subject: Re: OOPS re green water
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 43909	From: Deenerz@aol.com	Date: 10/16/2009
Subject: Re: OOPS re green water
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 43910	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 10/16/2009
Subject: Re: OOPS re green water
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 43911	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 10/16/2009
Subject: Re: OOPS re green water
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 43912	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 10/16/2009
Subject: Re: OOPS re green water
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 43913	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 10/16/2009
Subject: Re: OOPS re green water
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 43914	From: Lainey Alexander	Date: 10/16/2009
Subject: Re: OOPS re green water
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 43915	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 10/16/2009
Subject: Re: OOPS re green water
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 43916	From: Lainey Alexander	Date: 10/16/2009
Subject: Re: OOPS re green water
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 43917	From: Lainey Alexander	Date: 10/16/2009
Subject: CO2 versus Excel
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 43918	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 10/16/2009
Subject: Re: OOPS re green water
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 43919	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 10/16/2009
Subject: Re: CO2 versus Excel
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 43920	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 10/16/2009
Subject: Re: OOPS re green water
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 43921	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 10/16/2009
Subject: Re: OOPS re green water
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 43922	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 10/16/2009
Subject: Re: CO2 versus Excel
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 43923	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 10/16/2009
Subject: Re: OOPS re green water
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 43924	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 10/16/2009
Subject: Re: OOPS re green water
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 43925	From: Donna Ransome	Date: 10/17/2009
Subject: Re: The T-5 Business Len/Amber?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 43926	From: Donna Ransome	Date: 10/17/2009
Subject: Re: OOPS re green water
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 43927	From: Donna Ransome	Date: 10/17/2009
Subject: Re: OOPS re green water
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 43928	From: Donna Ransome	Date: 10/17/2009
Subject: Re: OOPS re green water
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 43929	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 10/17/2009
Subject: Re: OOPS re green water
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 43930	From: Donna Ransome	Date: 10/17/2009
Subject: Re: OOPS re green water
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 43931	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 10/17/2009
Subject: Re: OOPS re green water
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 43932	From: bill 1433	Date: 10/17/2009
Subject: Re: OOPS re green water
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 43933	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 10/17/2009
Subject: Re: OOPS re green water
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 43934	From: bill 1433	Date: 10/17/2009
Subject: Re: OOPS re green water
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 43935	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 10/17/2009
Subject: Re: OOPS re green water
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 43936	From: bill 1433	Date: 10/17/2009
Subject: Re: OOPS re green water
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 43937	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 10/17/2009
Subject: Re: OOPS re green water
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 43938	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 10/17/2009
Subject: Re: OOPS re green water
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 43939	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 10/17/2009
Subject: Re: OOPS re green water
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 43940	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 10/17/2009
Subject: Re: OOPS re green water
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 43941	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 10/17/2009
Subject: Re: OOPS re green water
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 43942	From: werepossums	Date: 10/18/2009
Subject: Re: The T-5 Business Len/Amber?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 43943	From: bill 1433	Date: 10/18/2009
Subject: Re: OOPS re green water
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 43944	From: bill 1433	Date: 10/18/2009
Subject: Re: OOPS re green water
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 43945	From: bill 1433	Date: 10/18/2009
Subject: Re: The T-5 Business Len/Amber?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 43946	From: Lainey Alexander	Date: 10/18/2009
Subject: Eheim backdrafting
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 43947	From: Donna Ransome	Date: 10/18/2009
Subject: Re: Eheim backdrafting
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 43948	From: Lainey Alexander	Date: 10/18/2009
Subject: Re: Eheim backdrafting
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 43949	From: Wendie	Date: 10/18/2009
Subject: Re: Eheim backdrafting
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 43950	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 10/18/2009
Subject: Re: Eheim backdrafting
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 43951	From: pam andress	Date: 10/18/2009
Subject: Re: Eheim backdrafting
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 43952	From: bruce cohen	Date: 10/19/2009
Subject: Re: Eheim backdrafting
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 43953	From: mattyobones	Date: 10/19/2009
Subject: Re: Eheim backdrafting
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 43954	From: Lainey Alexander	Date: 10/19/2009
Subject: Re: Eheim backdrafting
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 43955	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 10/19/2009
Subject: Re: Eheim backdrafting
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 43956	From: Lainey Alexander	Date: 10/19/2009
Subject: Re: Eheim backdrafting
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 43957	From: bill 1433	Date: 10/19/2009
Subject: Re: Eheim backdrafting
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 43958	From: Lainey Alexander	Date: 10/19/2009
Subject: Re: Eheim backdrafting
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 43959	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 10/19/2009
Subject: Re: Eheim backdrafting
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 43960	From: Lainey Alexander	Date: 10/19/2009
Subject: Re: Eheim backdrafting
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 43961	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 10/19/2009
Subject: Re: Eheim backdrafting
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 43962	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 10/19/2009
Subject: Re: Eheim backdrafting
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 43963	From: Lainey Alexander	Date: 10/19/2009
Subject: Re: Eheim backdrafting
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 43964	From: Donna Ransome	Date: 10/19/2009
Subject: Re: Eheim backdrafting
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 43965	From: Lainey Alexander	Date: 10/20/2009
Subject: O2 from plants
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 43966	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 10/20/2009
Subject: Re: O2 from plants
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 43967	From: Lainey Alexander	Date: 10/20/2009
Subject: Re: O2 from plants
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 43968	From: Rev. Eric Roberts	Date: 10/20/2009
Subject: Re: O2 from plants
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 43969	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 10/20/2009
Subject: Re: O2 from plants
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 43970	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 10/21/2009
Subject: Re: O2 from plants
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 43971	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 10/22/2009
Subject: Getting rid of pest snails
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 43972	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 10/22/2009
Subject: Re: Getting rid of pest snails
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 43973	From: Miquela D	Date: 10/22/2009
Subject: Re: Getting rid of pest snails
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 43974	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 10/22/2009
Subject: Re: Getting rid of pest snails
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 43975	From: Lainey Alexander	Date: 10/22/2009
Subject: Potted plants
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 43976	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 10/22/2009
Subject: Re: Potted plants
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 43977	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 10/23/2009
Subject: Pet Source USA Blog - Tropical Fish and Aquariums
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 43978	From: bill 1433	Date: 10/23/2009
Subject: Re: Pet Source USA Blog - Tropical Fish and Aquariums
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 43979	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 10/23/2009
Subject: Re: Pet Source USA Blog - Tropical Fish and Aquariums
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 43980	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 10/23/2009
Subject: Re: Getting rid of pest snails
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 43981	From: Lainey Alexander	Date: 10/23/2009
Subject: Danios spawning
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 43982	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 10/23/2009
Subject: Re: Danios spawning
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 43983	From: Lainey Alexander	Date: 10/23/2009
Subject: Re: Danios spawning
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 43984	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 10/23/2009
Subject: Re: Pet Source USA Blog - Tropical Fish and Aquariums
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 43985	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 10/23/2009
Subject: Re: Getting rid of pest snails
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 43986	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 10/23/2009
Subject: Re: Pet Source USA Blog - Tropical Fish and Aquariums
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 43987	From: Lisa	Date: 10/23/2009
Subject: Mollie's sore eye
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 43988	From: jett07002	Date: 10/23/2009
Subject: Re: Potted plants
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 43989	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 10/23/2009
Subject: Re: Pet Source USA Blog - Tropical Fish and Aquariums
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 43990	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 10/23/2009
Subject: Re: Pet Source USA Blog - Tropical Fish and Aquariums
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 43991	From: bill 1433	Date: 10/23/2009
Subject: Re: Pet Source USA Blog - Tropical Fish and Aquariums
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 43992	From: kuradi8	Date: 10/23/2009
Subject: Re: Mollie's sore eye
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 43993	From: kuradi8	Date: 10/23/2009
Subject: Re: Potted plants
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 43994	From: bill 1433	Date: 10/23/2009
Subject: Re: Pet Source USA Blog - Tropical Fish and Aquariums
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 43995	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 10/23/2009
Subject: Re: Pet Source USA Blog - Tropical Fish and Aquariums
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 43996	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 10/23/2009
Subject: Re: Mollie's sore eye
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 43997	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 10/23/2009
Subject: Re: Mollie's sore eye
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 43998	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 10/23/2009
Subject: Re: Pet Source USA Blog - Tropical Fish and Aquariums
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 43999	From: Lainey Alexander	Date: 10/23/2009
Subject: Re: Potted plants
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 44000	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 10/23/2009
Subject: Re: Pet Source USA Blog - Tropical Fish and Aquariums
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 44001	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 10/23/2009
Subject: Re: Pet Source USA Blog - Tropical Fish and Aquariums
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 44002	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 10/23/2009
Subject: Re: Pet Source USA Blog - Tropical Fish and Aquariums
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 44003	From: Gwydryn@aol.com	Date: 10/23/2009
Subject: Re: Pet Source USA Blog - Tropical Fish and Aquariums
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 44004	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 10/23/2009
Subject: Re: Potted plants
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 44005	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 10/23/2009
Subject: Re: Potted plants
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 44006	From: Lainey Alexander	Date: 10/23/2009
Subject: Re: Potted plants
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 44007	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 10/23/2009
Subject: Re: Potted plants
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 44008	From: Lisa	Date: 10/23/2009
Subject: Re: Mollie's sore eye
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 44009	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 10/24/2009
Subject: Re: Mollie's sore eye
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 44010	From: Donna Ransome	Date: 10/24/2009
Subject: Re: Potted plants
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 44011	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 10/24/2009
Subject: Re: Potted plants
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 44012	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 10/24/2009
Subject: Re: Mollie's sore eye
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 44013	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 10/24/2009
Subject: Piranha-like Fish Found in Vermont River
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 44014	From: Lisa	Date: 10/24/2009
Subject: Re: Mollie's sore eye
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 44015	From: Lisa	Date: 10/24/2009
Subject: Re: Mollie's sore eye
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 44016	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 10/24/2009
Subject: Re: Mollie's sore eye
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 44017	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 10/24/2009
Subject: Bleached corals ruin fish camouflage
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 44018	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 10/24/2009
Subject: Re: Potted plants
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 44019	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 10/24/2009
Subject: Re: Piranha-like Fish Found in Vermont River
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 44020	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 10/24/2009
Subject: Re: Mollie's sore eye
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 44021	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 10/24/2009
Subject: Pet Jellyfish
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 44022	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 10/24/2009
Subject: Re: Mollie's sore eye
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 44023	From: Gwydryn@aol.com	Date: 10/24/2009
Subject: Re: Pet Jellyfish
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 44024	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 10/24/2009
Subject: Re: Piranha-like Fish Found in Vermont River
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 44025	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 10/24/2009
Subject: Re: Pet Jellyfish
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 44026	From: Lainey Alexander	Date: 10/24/2009
Subject: Tank pictures
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 44027	From: Lainey Alexander	Date: 10/24/2009
Subject: Re: Tank pictures
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 44028	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 10/24/2009
Subject: Re: Potted plants
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 44029	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 10/24/2009
Subject: Re: Tank pictures
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 44030	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 10/24/2009
Subject: Re: Tank pictures
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 44031	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 10/24/2009
Subject: Re: Tank pictures
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 44032	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 10/24/2009
Subject: Fish Fingers--_Pesci digit_ Shown at London Aquarium
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 44033	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 10/24/2009
Subject: Fish eating worm invades aquarium
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 44034	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 10/24/2009
Subject: Re: Fish Fingers--_Pesci digit_ Shown at London Aquarium
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 44035	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 10/24/2009
Subject: Re: Fish eating worm invades aquarium
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 44036	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 10/24/2009
Subject: Re: Fish eating worm invades aquarium
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 44037	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 10/24/2009
Subject: PFK Online - Possible role of bristlenose tentacles revealed
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 44038	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 10/24/2009
Subject: Re: Fish eating worm invades aquarium
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 44039	From: Lainey Alexander	Date: 10/24/2009
Subject: Re: Tank pictures
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 44040	From: Lisa	Date: 10/25/2009
Subject: Re: Mollie's sore eye
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 44041	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 10/25/2009
Subject: Re: Mollie's sore eye
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 44042	From: Lisa	Date: 10/25/2009
Subject: Re: Mollie's sore eye
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 44043	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 10/25/2009
Subject: Re: Mollie's sore eye
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 44044	From: Kathy	Date: 10/26/2009
Subject: can walk again, ergo I'm starting to set up my betta bowl
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 44045	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 10/26/2009
Subject: Re: can walk again, ergo I'm starting to set up my betta bowl
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 44046	From: Kathy	Date: 10/26/2009
Subject: Re: can walk again, ergo I'm starting to set up my betta bowl
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 44047	From: Dora Smith	Date: 10/26/2009
Subject: Re: can walk again, ergo I'm starting to set up my betta bowl
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 44048	From: gailsugarpants	Date: 10/26/2009
Subject: Severum Behavior
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 44049	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 10/26/2009
Subject: Re: can walk again, ergo I'm starting to set up my betta bowl
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 44050	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 10/26/2009
Subject: Re: Severum Behavior
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 44051	From: clandestine662002	Date: 10/26/2009
Subject: Re: Severum Behavior
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 44052	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 10/26/2009
Subject: Re: Severum Behavior
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 44053	From: jett07002	Date: 10/27/2009
Subject: Re: Potted plants
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 44054	From: gailsugarpants	Date: 10/27/2009
Subject: Re: Severum Behavior
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 44055	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 10/27/2009
Subject: Re: Severum Behavior
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 44056	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 10/27/2009
Subject: Re: Severum Behavior
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 44057	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 10/27/2009
Subject: Re: Severum Behavior
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 44058	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 10/27/2009
Subject: Re: can walk again, ergo I'm starting to set up my betta bowl
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 44059	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 10/27/2009
Subject: Re: Severum Behavior
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 44060	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 10/27/2009
Subject: Re: Severum Behavior
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 44061	From: Kathy	Date: 10/27/2009
Subject: Re: can walk again, ergo I'm starting to set up my betta bowl
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 44062	From: Kathy	Date: 10/27/2009
Subject: Re: can walk again, ergo I'm starting to set up my betta bowl
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 44063	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 10/27/2009
Subject: Re: can walk again, ergo I'm starting to set up my betta bowl
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 44064	From: gailsugarpants	Date: 10/27/2009
Subject: Re: Severum Behavior
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 44065	From: sevenspringss@wmconnect.com	Date: 10/27/2009
Subject: Re: Severum Behavior
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 44066	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 10/27/2009
Subject: Re: can walk again, ergo I'm starting to set up my betta bowl
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 44067	From: Lainey Alexander	Date: 10/27/2009
Subject: GFIs
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 44068	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 10/27/2009
Subject: Re: Severum Behavior
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 44069	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 10/27/2009
Subject: Re: GFIs
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 44070	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 10/27/2009
Subject: Re: can walk again, ergo I'm starting to set up my betta bowl
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 44071	From: bill 1433	Date: 10/27/2009
Subject: Re: GFIs
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 44072	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 10/27/2009
Subject: Re: Severum Behavior
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 44073	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 10/27/2009
Subject: Re: GFIs
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 44074	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 10/27/2009
Subject: Re: GFIs
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 44075	From: bill 1433	Date: 10/27/2009
Subject: Re: GFIs
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 44076	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 10/27/2009
Subject: Re: can walk again, ergo I'm starting to set up my betta bowl
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 44077	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 10/27/2009
Subject: Re: GFIs
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 44078	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 10/27/2009
Subject: Re: GFIs
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 44079	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 10/27/2009
Subject: Re: GFIs
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 44080	From: gailsugarpants	Date: 10/28/2009
Subject: Re: Severum Behavior
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 44081	From: sevenspringss@wmconnect.com	Date: 10/28/2009
Subject: Re: Severum Behavior
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 44082	From: gailsugarpants	Date: 10/28/2009
Subject: Re: Severum Behavior
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 44083	From: Tricia Wilkerson	Date: 10/28/2009
Subject: Chinese algae eaters
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 44084	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 10/28/2009
Subject: Re: Chinese algae eaters
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 44085	From: Miquela D	Date: 10/28/2009
Subject: Re: Chinese algae eaters
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 44086	From: gailsugarpants	Date: 10/28/2009
Subject: Re: Chinese algae eaters
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 44087	From: Heather	Date: 10/28/2009
Subject: Re: Chinese algae eaters
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 44088	From: erikaandnewton	Date: 10/28/2009
Subject: heater noise??
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 44089	From: William M	Date: 10/28/2009
Subject: Re: Chinese algae eaters
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 44090	From: sevenspringss@wmconnect.com	Date: 10/29/2009
Subject: Re: heater noise??
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 44091	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 10/29/2009
Subject: Re: Chinese algae eaters
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 44092	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 10/29/2009
Subject: Re: heater noise??
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 44093	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 10/29/2009
Subject: Re: heater noise??
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 44094	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 10/29/2009
Subject: Re: heater noise??
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 44095	From: Dr. Norman Ali Bassam Khalaf	Date: 10/29/2009
Subject: Oreochromis mossambicus bassamkhalafi Khalaf, 2009 : A New Mozambiqu
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 44096	From: Dr. Norman Ali Bassam Khalaf	Date: 10/29/2009
Subject: Oreochromis mossambicus bassamkhalafi Khalaf, 2009 : A New Mozambiqu
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 44097	From: Lisa	Date: 10/29/2009
Subject: Mollys sore eye - updated
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 44098	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 10/29/2009
Subject: Re: heater noise??
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 44099	From: erikaandnewton	Date: 10/29/2009
Subject: Re: heater noise??
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 44100	From: erikaandnewton	Date: 10/29/2009
Subject: Re: heater noise??
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 44101	From: sevenspringss@wmconnect.com	Date: 10/29/2009
Subject: Re: heater noise??
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 44102	From: sevenspringss@wmconnect.com	Date: 10/29/2009
Subject: Re: heater noise??
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 44103	From: erikaandnewton	Date: 10/29/2009
Subject: Re: heater noise??
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 44104	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 10/29/2009
Subject: Re: heater noise??
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 44105	From: Lisa	Date: 10/29/2009
Subject: Re: heater noise??
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 44106	From: Sam Palermo	Date: 10/29/2009
Subject: Re: heater noise??
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 44107	From: sevenspringss@wmconnect.com	Date: 10/30/2009
Subject: Re: heater noise??
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 44108	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 10/30/2009
Subject: Re: heater noise??
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 44109	From: erikaandnewton	Date: 10/30/2009
Subject: Re: heater noise??
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 44110	From: erikaandnewton	Date: 10/30/2009
Subject: Re: heater noise??
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 44111	From: kuradi8	Date: 10/30/2009
Subject: heater noise?? NOW Air Pump Noise
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 44112	From: Kathy	Date: 10/30/2009
Subject: New betta
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 44113	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 10/30/2009
Subject: Re: New betta
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 44114	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 10/30/2009
Subject: Re: heater noise?? NOW Air Pump Noise
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 44115	From: Kathy	Date: 10/30/2009
Subject: Re: New betta
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 44116	From: Dora Smith	Date: 10/31/2009
Subject: Re: New betta
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 44117	From: kuradi8	Date: 10/31/2009
Subject: Re: New betta
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 44118	From: kuradi8	Date: 10/31/2009
Subject: Re: heater noise?? NOW Air Pump Noise
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 44119	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 10/31/2009
Subject: Re: heater noise?? NOW Air Pump Noise
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 44120	From: Kathy	Date: 10/31/2009
Subject: Re: New betta
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 44121	From: Kathy	Date: 10/31/2009
Subject: Re: New betta
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 44122	From: Donna Ransome	Date: 10/31/2009
Subject: Re: heater noise?? NOW Air Pump Noise
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 44123	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 10/31/2009
Subject: Re: New betta
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 44124	From: Kathy	Date: 10/31/2009
Subject: Re: New betta
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 44125	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 10/31/2009
Subject: Re: New betta
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 44126	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 10/31/2009
Subject: Re: New betta
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 44127	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 10/31/2009
Subject: The Aquaria Water Museum, Stockholm
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 44128	From: Kathy	Date: 10/31/2009
Subject: Re: New betta
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 44129	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 10/31/2009
Subject: Re: New betta
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 44130	From: Dora Smith	Date: 10/31/2009
Subject: Re: New betta
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 44131	From: Dora Smith	Date: 10/31/2009
Subject: Re: New betta
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 44132	From: Kathy	Date: 10/31/2009
Subject: He ate! Re: New betta
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 44133	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 10/31/2009
Subject: Re: He ate! Re: New betta
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 44134	From: Kathy	Date: 10/31/2009
Subject: Re: New betta
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 44135	From: Kathy	Date: 10/31/2009
Subject: He ate! Re: New betta
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 44136	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 10/31/2009
Subject: Re: New betta
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 44137	From: Kathy	Date: 10/31/2009
Subject: Re: New betta
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 44138	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 10/31/2009
Subject: Re: New betta
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 44139	From: Kathy	Date: 10/31/2009
Subject: Re: New betta
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 44140	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 10/31/2009
Subject: Re: New betta
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 44141	From: Kathy	Date: 10/31/2009
Subject: Re: New betta
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 44142	From: Dora Smith	Date: 11/1/2009
Subject: Re: He ate! Re: New betta
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 44143	From: Dora Smith	Date: 11/1/2009
Subject: Re: New betta
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 44144	From: Dora Smith	Date: 11/1/2009
Subject: Re: New betta
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 44145	From: Dora Smith	Date: 11/1/2009
Subject: Re: New betta
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 44146	From: Dora Smith	Date: 11/1/2009
Subject: Re: He ate! Re: New betta
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 44147	From: Dora Smith	Date: 11/1/2009
Subject: Re: New betta
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 44148	From: kuradi8	Date: 11/1/2009
Subject: Re: New betta
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 44149	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 11/1/2009
Subject: Re: New betta
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 44150	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 11/1/2009
Subject: Re: New betta
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 44151	From: Dora Smith	Date: 11/1/2009
Subject: Re: New betta
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 44152	From: Ldyminx	Date: 11/1/2009
Subject: Fluval 305 issues
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 44153	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 11/1/2009
Subject: Re: New betta
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 44154	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 11/1/2009
Subject: Re: Fluval 305 issues
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 44155	From: Lainey Alexander	Date: 11/1/2009
Subject: Re: New betta
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 44156	From: kuradi8	Date: 11/1/2009
Subject: Re: New betta
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 44157	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 11/1/2009
Subject: Re: New betta
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 44158	From: Dora Smith	Date: 11/1/2009
Subject: Re: New betta
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 44159	From: Dora Smith	Date: 11/1/2009
Subject: Re: New betta
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 44160	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 11/1/2009
Subject: Re: New betta
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 44161	From: Lainey Alexander	Date: 11/1/2009
Subject: Re: New betta
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 44162	From: Sam Palermo	Date: 11/1/2009
Subject: Re: Fluval 305 issues
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 44163	From: Kathy	Date: 11/2/2009
Subject: Thank you everyone
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 44164	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 11/2/2009
Subject: Re: Thank you everyone
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 44165	From: Dora Smith	Date: 11/2/2009
Subject: Re: [Bulk] RE: [AquaticLife] Re: New betta
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 44166	From: pam andress	Date: 11/2/2009
Subject: Re: Thank you everyone
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 44167	From: bill 1433	Date: 11/2/2009
Subject: Re: Thank you everyone
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 44168	From: Courtland	Date: 11/2/2009
Subject: marineland c series canisters
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 44169	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 11/2/2009
Subject: Re: Thank you everyone
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 44170	From: yofiguy	Date: 11/2/2009
Subject: ozone or skimmer alone
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 44171	From: Springer,James C.	Date: 11/2/2009
Subject: Re: marineland c series canisters
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 44172	From: Lainey Alexander	Date: 11/2/2009
Subject: WARNING on Arizona Aquatic Gardens
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 44173	From: Lisa	Date: 11/3/2009
Subject: Fry in unfilterd/unheated tank
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 44174	From: Donna Ransome	Date: 11/3/2009
Subject: Re: Fry in unfilterd/unheated tank
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 44175	From: mattyobones	Date: 11/3/2009
Subject: Re: Fry in unfilterd/unheated tank
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 44176	From: Poul Wehner	Date: 11/3/2009
Subject: Re: marineland c series canisters
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 44177	From: Lisa	Date: 11/3/2009
Subject: I’m just curious...
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 44178	From: gailsugarpants	Date: 11/3/2009
Subject: Re: WARNING on Arizona Aquatic Gardens
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 44179	From: gailsugarpants	Date: 11/3/2009
Subject: Re: Severum Behavior - updated
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 44180	From: bruce c	Date: 11/3/2009
Subject: seachem
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 44181	From: sevenspringss@wmconnect.com	Date: 11/3/2009
Subject: Re: Severum Behavior - updated
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 44182	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 11/4/2009
Subject: Re: WARNING on Arizona Aquatic Gardens
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 44183	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 11/4/2009
Subject: Re: Severum Behavior - updated
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 44184	From: Lainey Alexander	Date: 11/4/2009
Subject: Re: WARNING on Arizona Aquatic Gardens
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 44185	From: bill 1433	Date: 11/4/2009
Subject: Re: WARNING on Arizona Aquatic Gardens
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 44186	From: gailsugarpants	Date: 11/4/2009
Subject: Re: Severum Behavior - updated
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 44187	From: bill 1433	Date: 11/4/2009
Subject: Re: Severum Behavior - updated
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 44188	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 11/4/2009
Subject: Re: Severum Behavior - updated
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 44189	From: smokybanditfroggy	Date: 11/4/2009
Subject: Hi I am a new member wanting to learn more about different aquatic l
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 44190	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 11/4/2009
Subject: Re: Hi I am a new member wanting to learn more about different aquat
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 44191	From: werepossums	Date: 11/4/2009
Subject: Re: WARNING on Arizona Aquatic Gardens
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 44192	From: Lainey Alexander	Date: 11/5/2009
Subject: Re: WARNING on Arizona Aquatic Gardens
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 44193	From: gailsugarpants	Date: 11/5/2009
Subject: New concept in fish tanks
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 44194	From: werepossums	Date: 11/5/2009
Subject: Re: WARNING on Arizona Aquatic Gardens
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 44195	From: kuradi8	Date: 11/5/2009
Subject: Re: New concept in fish tanks
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 44196	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 11/5/2009
Subject: Air fresheners, perfumes, etc... and their effect on our fish and Be
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 44197	From: Dora Smith	Date: 11/5/2009
Subject: Re: New concept in fish tanks
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 44198	From: Lainey Alexander	Date: 11/5/2009
Subject: Re: Air fresheners, perfumes, etc... and their effect on our fish an
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 44199	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 11/5/2009
Subject: Re: Air fresheners, perfumes, etc... and their effect on our fish an
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 44200	From: Miquela D	Date: 11/5/2009
Subject: Re: New concept in fish tanks
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 44201	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 11/5/2009
Subject: Re: New concept in fish tanks
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 44202	From: toddswoman496861@aim.com	Date: 11/6/2009
Subject: have a question
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 44203	From: sevenspringss@wmconnect.com	Date: 11/6/2009
Subject: Re: have a question
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 44204	From: kuradi8	Date: 11/6/2009
Subject: Re: New concept in fish tanks
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 44205	From: gailsugarpants	Date: 11/6/2009
Subject: Re: New concept in fish tanks
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 44206	From: vitaebat	Date: 11/6/2009
Subject: Re: WARNING on Arizona Aquatic Gardens
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 44207	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 11/6/2009
Subject: Re: New concept in fish tanks
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 44208	From: David Keymel	Date: 11/6/2009
Subject: Re: New concept in fish tanks
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 44209	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 11/6/2009
Subject: Re: New concept in fish tanks
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 44210	From: David Keymel	Date: 11/6/2009
Subject: Re: New concept in fish tanks
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 44211	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 11/6/2009
Subject: Sound in the Sea
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 44212	From: erikaandnewton	Date: 11/7/2009
Subject: stuck thermometer?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 44213	From: Dr. Norman Ali Bassam Khalaf	Date: 11/7/2009
Subject: A New Book: Fauna Palaestina - Part One
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 44214	From: kuradi8	Date: 11/7/2009
Subject: Algae
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 44215	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 11/7/2009
Subject: Re: stuck thermometer?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 44216	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 11/7/2009
Subject: Re: Algae
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 44217	From: Lainey Alexander	Date: 11/7/2009
Subject: pH testers
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 44218	From: cat.rose	Date: 11/7/2009
Subject: Plants growing black hair - eek.
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 44219	From: Dora Smith	Date: 11/7/2009
Subject: Re: Algae
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 44220	From: harry perry	Date: 11/7/2009
Subject: Re: Algae/Betta Bowl
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 44221	From: kuradi8	Date: 11/7/2009
Subject: Re: Algae
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 44222	From: kuradi8	Date: 11/7/2009
Subject: Re: Algae
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 44223	From: kuradi8	Date: 11/7/2009
Subject: Re: Algae/Betta Bowl
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 44224	From: harry perry	Date: 11/7/2009
Subject: Re: Algae/Betta Bowl/kuradi8
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 44225	From: Dora Smith	Date: 11/7/2009
Subject: Re: Algae/Betta Bowl
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 44226	From: Dora Smith	Date: 11/7/2009
Subject: Re: Algae/Betta Bowl
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 44227	From: harry perry	Date: 11/7/2009
Subject: Re: Algae/Betta Bowl/Dora
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 44228	From: kuradi8	Date: 11/7/2009
Subject: Re: Algae/Betta Bowl
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 44229	From: kuradi8	Date: 11/7/2009
Subject: Re: Algae/Betta Bowl/Dora
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 44230	From: harry perry	Date: 11/7/2009
Subject: Re: Algae/Betta Bowl/Dora/again
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 44231	From: Lainey Alexander	Date: 11/7/2009
Subject: Re: pH testers
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 44232	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 11/7/2009
Subject: Re: pH testers
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 44233	From: erikaandnewton	Date: 11/7/2009
Subject: wisteria/lighting previous question/response revisited
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 44234	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 11/7/2009
Subject: Re: stuck thermometer?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 44235	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 11/7/2009
Subject: Re: Algae
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 44236	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 11/7/2009
Subject: Re: pH testers
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 44237	From: Lainey Alexander	Date: 11/7/2009
Subject: Re: pH testers
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 44238	From: Lainey Alexander	Date: 11/7/2009
Subject: Re: pH testers
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 44239	From: kuradi8	Date: 11/7/2009
Subject: Re: Algae/Betta Bowl/Dora/again
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 44240	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 11/7/2009
Subject: Re: Plants growing black hair - eek.
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 44241	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 11/7/2009
Subject: Re: Algae/Betta Bowl
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 44242	From: Dora Smith	Date: 11/7/2009
Subject: Re: Algae/Betta Bowl/Dora/again
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 44243	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 11/7/2009
Subject: Re: pH testers
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 44244	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 11/7/2009
Subject: Re: wisteria/lighting previous question/response revisited
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 44245	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 11/7/2009
Subject: Re: pH testers
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 44246	From: Dora Smith	Date: 11/7/2009
Subject: Re: Algae/Betta Bowl/Dora
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 44247	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 11/7/2009
Subject: Re: pH testers
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 44248	From: erikaandnewton	Date: 11/7/2009
Subject: Re: stuck thermometer?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 44249	From: toddswoman496861@aim.com	Date: 11/7/2009
Subject: just curious.
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 44250	From: Lainey Alexander	Date: 11/7/2009
Subject: Re: pH testers
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 44251	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 11/7/2009
Subject: Re: stuck thermometer?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 44252	From: Lainey Alexander	Date: 11/7/2009
Subject: Re: pH testers
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 44253	From: kuradi8	Date: 11/7/2009
Subject: Re: Algae/Betta Bowl
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 44254	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 11/7/2009
Subject: Re: pH testers
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 44255	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 11/7/2009
Subject: Re: just curious.
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 44256	From: Lainey Alexander	Date: 11/7/2009
Subject: Re: pH testers
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 44257	From: biG poppa	Date: 11/7/2009
Subject: Re: just curious.
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 44258	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 11/7/2009
Subject: Re: Algae/Betta Bowl
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 44259	From: Miquela	Date: 11/7/2009
Subject: Are micro bubbles bad for a freshwater aquarium?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 44260	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 11/7/2009
Subject: Re: just curious.
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 44261	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 11/7/2009
Subject: Re: pH testers
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 44262	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 11/7/2009
Subject: Re: pH testers
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 44263	From: Lainey Alexander	Date: 11/7/2009
Subject: Re: pH testers
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 44264	From: Lainey Alexander	Date: 11/7/2009
Subject: Re: pH testers
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 44265	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 11/7/2009
Subject: Re: pH testers
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 44266	From: Lainey Alexander	Date: 11/7/2009
Subject: Re: pH testers
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 44267	From: kuradi8	Date: 11/7/2009
Subject: Re: Algae/Betta Bowl
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 44268	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 11/7/2009
Subject: Re: Are micro bubbles bad for a freshwater aquarium?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 44269	From: Deenerz@aol.com	Date: 11/7/2009
Subject: Re: stuck thermometer?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 44270	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 11/7/2009
Subject: Re: Algae/Betta Bowl
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 44271	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 11/7/2009
Subject: Re: stuck thermometer?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 44272	From: Deenerz@aol.com	Date: 11/7/2009
Subject: Re: stuck thermometer?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 44273	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 11/7/2009
Subject: Re: Algae
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 44274	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 11/7/2009
Subject: Re: Plants growing black hair - eek.
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 44275	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 11/7/2009
Subject: Re: Are micro bubbles bad for a freshwater aquarium?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 44276	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 11/7/2009
Subject: Re: Plants growing black hair - eek.
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 44277	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 11/7/2009
Subject: Re: Plants growing black hair - eek.
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 44278	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 11/7/2009
Subject: Re: pH testers
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 44279	From: Laurie Murphy	Date: 11/7/2009
Subject: Re: stuck thermometer?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 44280	From: Miquela D	Date: 11/7/2009
Subject: Re: Are micro bubbles bad for a freshwater aquarium?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 44281	From: Dora Smith	Date: 11/7/2009
Subject: Re: Algae/Betta Bowl/kuradi8
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 44282	From: Donna Ransome	Date: 11/7/2009
Subject: Re: Algae/Betta Bowl
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 44283	From: Donna Ransome	Date: 11/7/2009
Subject: Re: pH testers
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 44284	From: Donna Ransome	Date: 11/7/2009
Subject: Re: pH testers
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 44285	From: Lainey Alexander	Date: 11/7/2009
Subject: Re: Plants growing black hair - eek.
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 44286	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 11/7/2009
Subject: Re: Are micro bubbles bad for a freshwater aquarium?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 44287	From: harry perry	Date: 11/7/2009
Subject: Re: Are micro bubbles bad for a freshwater aquarium?/Steve
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 44288	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 11/7/2009
Subject: Re: Are micro bubbles bad for a freshwater aquarium?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 44289	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 11/7/2009
Subject: Re: Algae/Betta Bowl
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 44290	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 11/7/2009
Subject: Re: Are micro bubbles bad for a freshwater aquarium?/Steve
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 44291	From: erikaandnewton	Date: 11/8/2009
Subject: Re: wisteria/lighting previous question/response revisited
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 44292	From: bill 1433	Date: 11/8/2009
Subject: Re: wisteria/lighting previous question/response revisited
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 44293	From: kuradi8	Date: 11/8/2009
Subject: Re: Algae/Betta Bowl
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 44294	From: kuradi8	Date: 11/8/2009
Subject: Snail Questions
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 44295	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 11/8/2009
Subject: Re: wisteria/lighting previous question/response revisited
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 44296	From: toddswoman496861@aim.com	Date: 11/8/2009
Subject: Re: just curious.
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 44297	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 11/8/2009
Subject: Re: wisteria/lighting previous question/response revisited
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 44298	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 11/8/2009
Subject: Re: wisteria/lighting previous question/response revisited
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 44299	From: Dora Smith	Date: 11/8/2009
Subject: Re: Algae/Betta Bowl/Dora/again
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 44300	From: Christine	Date: 11/8/2009
Subject: Something different....
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 44301	From: Dora Smith	Date: 11/8/2009
Subject: Re: [Bulk] RE: [AquaticLife] Re: Algae/Betta Bowl
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 44302	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 11/8/2009
Subject: Re: just curious.
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 44303	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 11/8/2009
Subject: Re: Snail Questions
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 44304	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 11/8/2009
Subject: Re: [Bulk] RE: [AquaticLife] Re: Algae/Betta Bowl
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 44305	From: Cheryl Ellison	Date: 11/8/2009
Subject: Re: wisteria/lighting previous question/response revisited
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 44306	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 11/8/2009
Subject: Re: Something different....
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 44307	From: kuradi8	Date: 11/8/2009
Subject: Re: Snail Questions
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 44308	From: Cheryl Ellison	Date: 11/8/2009
Subject: Re: [Bulk] RE: [AquaticLife] Re: Algae/Betta Bowl
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 44309	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 11/8/2009
Subject: Re: Something different....
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 44310	From: erikaandnewton	Date: 11/8/2009
Subject: Re: wisteria/lighting previous question/response revisited
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 44311	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 11/8/2009
Subject: Re: Snail Questions
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 44312	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 11/8/2009
Subject: Re: Snail Questions
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 44313	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 11/8/2009
Subject: Re: [Bulk] RE: [AquaticLife] Re: Algae/Betta Bowl
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 44314	From: sevenspringss@wmconnect.com	Date: 11/8/2009
Subject: Re: wisteria/lighting previous question/response revisited
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 44315	From: kuradi8	Date: 11/8/2009
Subject: Re: Snail Questions
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 44316	From: bill 1433	Date: 11/8/2009
Subject: Re: wisteria/lighting previous question/response revisited
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 44317	From: Donna Ransome	Date: 11/8/2009
Subject: Re: [Bulk] RE: [AquaticLife] Re: Algae/Betta Bowl
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 44318	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 11/8/2009
Subject: Re: wisteria/lighting previous question/response revisited
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 44319	From: bill 1433	Date: 11/8/2009
Subject: Re: wisteria/lighting previous question/response revisited
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 44320	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 11/8/2009
Subject: Re: Snail Questions
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 44321	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 11/8/2009
Subject: Re: Snail Questions
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 44322	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 11/8/2009
Subject: Re: Snail Questions
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 44323	From: harry perry	Date: 11/8/2009
Subject: Re: Snail Questions/Kai
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 44324	From: kuradi8	Date: 11/8/2009
Subject: [Bulk] RE: [AquaticLife] Re: Algae/Betta Bowl
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 44325	From: kuradi8	Date: 11/8/2009
Subject: Re: Snail Questions
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 44326	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 11/8/2009
Subject: Re: Snail Questions
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 44327	From: kuradi8	Date: 11/8/2009
Subject: Re: Snail Questions/Kai
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 44328	From: Cheryl Ellison	Date: 11/8/2009
Subject: Re: [Bulk] RE: [AquaticLife] Re: Algae/Betta Bowl
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 44329	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 11/8/2009
Subject: Re: wisteria/lighting previous question/response revisited
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 44330	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 11/8/2009
Subject: Re: [Bulk] RE: [AquaticLife] Re: Algae/Betta Bowl
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 44331	From: Gwydryn@aol.com	Date: 11/8/2009
Subject: Re: [Bulk] RE: [AquaticLife] Re: Algae/Betta Bowl
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 44332	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 11/8/2009
Subject: Re: [Bulk] RE: [AquaticLife] Re: Algae/Betta Bowl
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 44333	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 11/8/2009
Subject: Re: [Bulk] RE: [AquaticLife] Re: Algae/Betta Bowl
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 44334	From: bill 1433	Date: 11/8/2009
Subject: Re: wisteria/lighting previous question/response revisited
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 44335	From: Gwydryn@aol.com	Date: 11/8/2009
Subject: Re: [Bulk] RE: [AquaticLife] Re: Algae/Betta Bowl
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 44336	From: Dayne	Date: 11/8/2009
Subject: Re: shaking mercury thermometers
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 44337	From: harry perry	Date: 11/8/2009
Subject: Re: shaking mercury thermometers/Dayne
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 44338	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 11/8/2009
Subject: H.R. 669: Nonnative Wildlife Invasion Prevention Act
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 44339	From: cat.rose	Date: 11/8/2009
Subject: Re: Plants growing black hair - eek.
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 44340	From: Jade	Date: 11/8/2009
Subject: Aquarium heater sedimentation?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 44341	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 11/8/2009
Subject: Re: Plants growing black hair - eek.
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 44342	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 11/8/2009
Subject: Re: Aquarium heater sedimentation?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 44343	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 11/8/2009
Subject: Re: Aquarium heater sedimentation?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 44344	From: Donna Ransome	Date: 11/9/2009
Subject: Re: Aquarium heater sedimentation?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 44345	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 11/9/2009
Subject: Re: Aquarium heater sedimentation?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 44346	From: Donna Ransome	Date: 11/9/2009
Subject: Re: Aquarium heater sedimentation?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 44347	From: cat.rose	Date: 11/9/2009
Subject: Re: Plants growing black hair - eek.
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 44348	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 11/9/2009
Subject: Re: Plants growing black hair - eek.
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 44349	From: Rev. Eric Roberts	Date: 11/9/2009
Subject: Re: Plants growing black hair - eek.
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 44350	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 11/9/2009
Subject: Re: Plants growing black hair - eek.
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 44351	From: Lisa	Date: 11/9/2009
Subject: Same infection as molli effecting another of my fish
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 44352	From: sevenspringss@wmconnect.com	Date: 11/10/2009
Subject: Re: Same infection as molli effecting another of my fish
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 44353	From: Lainey Alexander	Date: 11/10/2009
Subject: Vacuuming planted tanks
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 44354	From: erikaandnewton	Date: 11/10/2009
Subject: Re: wisteria/lighting previous question/response revisited
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 44355	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 11/10/2009
Subject: Question about eating snails
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 44356	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 11/10/2009
Subject: Re: Vacuuming planted tanks
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 44357	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 11/10/2009
Subject: Re: wisteria/lighting previous question/response revisited
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 44358	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 11/10/2009
Subject: Re: Question about eating snails
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 44359	From: kuradi8	Date: 11/10/2009
Subject: More on Vacuums
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 44360	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 11/10/2009
Subject: Re: More on Vacuums
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 44361	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 11/10/2009
Subject: Re: More on Vacuums
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 44362	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 11/10/2009
Subject: Re: Question about eating snails
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 44363	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 11/10/2009
Subject: Re: wisteria/lighting previous question/response revisited
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 44364	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 11/10/2009
Subject: Re: Question about eating snails
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 44365	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 11/10/2009
Subject: Re: More on Vacuums
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 44366	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 11/10/2009
Subject: Re: Question about eating snails
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 44367	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 11/10/2009
Subject: Re: Question about eating snails
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 44368	From: kuradi8	Date: 11/10/2009
Subject: Re: More on Vacuums
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 44369	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 11/10/2009
Subject: Re: Question about eating snails
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 44370	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 11/10/2009
Subject: Re: wisteria/lighting previous question/response revisited
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 44371	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 11/10/2009
Subject: Re: More on Vacuums
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 44372	From: kuradi8	Date: 11/10/2009
Subject: Re: More on Vacuums
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 44373	From: Donna Ransome	Date: 11/10/2009
Subject: Re: Question about eating snails
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 44374	From: Donna Ransome	Date: 11/10/2009
Subject: Wow! Aquarium Accident
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 44375	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 11/10/2009
Subject: Re: Question about eating snails
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 44376	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 11/10/2009
Subject: Re: Question about eating snails
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 44377	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 11/10/2009
Subject: Re: Wow! Aquarium Accident
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 44378	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 11/10/2009
Subject: Re: Question about eating snails
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 44379	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 11/10/2009
Subject: Re: Question about eating snails
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 44380	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 11/10/2009
Subject: Re: wisteria/lighting previous question/response revisited
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 44381	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 11/10/2009
Subject: Re: wisteria/lighting previous question/response revisited
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 44382	From: Dora Smith	Date: 11/10/2009
Subject: Re: [Bulk] RE: [AquaticLife] Wow! Aquarium Accident
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 44383	From: Deenerz@aol.com	Date: 11/10/2009
Subject: Re: Question about eating snails
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 44384	From: bill 1433	Date: 11/10/2009
Subject: Re: wisteria/lighting previous question/response revisited
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 44385	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 11/10/2009
Subject: Re: [Bulk] RE: [AquaticLife] Wow! Aquarium Accident
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 44386	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 11/10/2009
Subject: Re: wisteria/lighting previous question/response revisited
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 44387	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 11/10/2009
Subject: Re: Question about eating snails
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 44388	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 11/10/2009
Subject: Re: Question about eating snails
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 44389	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 11/10/2009
Subject: Re: wisteria/lighting previous question/response revisited
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 44390	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 11/10/2009
Subject: Re: [Bulk] RE: [AquaticLife] Wow! Aquarium Accident
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 44391	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 11/10/2009
Subject: Re: Question about eating snails
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 44392	From: Deenerz@aol.com	Date: 11/10/2009
Subject: Re: Question about eating snails
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 44393	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 11/10/2009
Subject: Re: wisteria/lighting previous question/response revisited
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 44394	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 11/10/2009
Subject: Re: wisteria/lighting previous question/response revisited
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 44395	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 11/10/2009
Subject: Re: [Bulk] RE: [AquaticLife] Wow! Aquarium Accident
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 44396	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 11/10/2009
Subject: Re: [Bulk] RE: [AquaticLife] Wow! Aquarium Accident
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 44397	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 11/10/2009
Subject: Re: wisteria/lighting previous question/response revisited
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 44398	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 11/10/2009
Subject: Re: [Bulk] RE: [AquaticLife] Wow! Aquarium Accident
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 44399	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 11/10/2009
Subject: Re: wisteria/lighting previous question/response revisited
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 44400	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 11/10/2009
Subject: Re: [Bulk] RE: [AquaticLife] Wow! Aquarium Accident
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 44401	From: sevenspringss@wmconnect.com	Date: 11/10/2009
Subject: Re: More on Vacuums
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 44402	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 11/11/2009
Subject: Re: [Bulk] RE: [AquaticLife] Wow! Aquarium Accident
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 44403	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 11/11/2009
Subject: Re: wisteria/lighting previous question/response revisited
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 44404	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 11/11/2009
Subject: Re: wisteria/lighting previous question/response revisited
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 44405	From: bill 1433	Date: 11/11/2009
Subject: Re: wisteria/lighting previous question/response revisited
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 44406	From: bill 1433	Date: 11/11/2009
Subject: Re: wisteria/lighting previous question/response revisited
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 44407	From: bill 1433	Date: 11/11/2009
Subject: Re: wisteria/lighting previous question/response revisited
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 44408	From: bill 1433	Date: 11/11/2009
Subject: Re: wisteria/lighting previous question/response revisited
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 44409	From: bill 1433	Date: 11/11/2009
Subject: Re: wisteria/lighting previous question/response revisited
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 44410	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 11/11/2009
Subject: Re: wisteria/lighting previous question/response revisited
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 44411	From: bill 1433	Date: 11/11/2009
Subject: Re: wisteria/lighting previous question/response revisited
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 44412	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 11/11/2009
Subject: Re: wisteria/lighting previous question/response revisited
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 44413	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 11/11/2009
Subject: Re: wisteria/lighting previous question/response revisited
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 44414	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 11/11/2009
Subject: Re: wisteria/lighting previous question/response revisited
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 44415	From: Rev. Eric Roberts	Date: 11/11/2009
Subject: Re: wisteria/lighting previous question/response revisited
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 44416	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 11/11/2009
Subject: Re: wisteria/lighting previous question/response revisited
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 44417	From: cat.rose	Date: 11/11/2009
Subject: Re: Plants growing black hair - eek.
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 44418	From: bill 1433	Date: 11/11/2009
Subject: Re: wisteria/lighting previous question/response revisited
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 44419	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 11/11/2009
Subject: Re: wisteria/lighting previous question/response revisited
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 44420	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 11/11/2009
Subject: Re: Plants growing black hair - eek.
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 44421	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 11/11/2009
Subject: Re: Plants growing black hair - eek.
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 44422	From: biG poppa	Date: 11/11/2009
Subject: Re: Plants growing black hair - eek.
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 44423	From: Donna Ransome	Date: 11/11/2009
Subject: Re: Why am I getting these weird messages to this address?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 44424	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 11/11/2009
Subject: Re: Why am I getting these weird messages to this address?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 44425	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 11/11/2009
Subject: Re: wisteria/lighting previous question/response revisited
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 44426	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 11/11/2009
Subject: Re: Plants growing black hair - eek.
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 44427	From: Donna Ransome	Date: 11/11/2009
Subject: Re: Why am I getting these weird messages to this address?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 44428	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 11/11/2009
Subject: Re: Why am I getting these weird messages to this address?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 44429	From: Jade	Date: 11/11/2009
Subject: Re: Aquarium heater sedimentation?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 44430	From: Dr. Norman Ali Bassam Khalaf	Date: 11/11/2009
Subject: A Longcomb Sawfish caught off the coast of Dibba, United Arab Emirat
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 44431	From: sevenspringss@wmconnect.com	Date: 11/11/2009
Subject: Re: Why am I getting these weird messages to this address?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 44432	From: Wendie	Date: 11/11/2009
Subject: Re: Why am I getting these weird messages to this address?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 44433	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 11/12/2009
Subject: Re: Why am I getting these weird messages to this address?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 44434	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 11/12/2009
Subject: Re: Aquarium heater sedimentation?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 44435	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 11/12/2009
Subject: Re: Aquarium heater sedimentation?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 44436	From: Donna Ransome	Date: 11/12/2009
Subject: Re: Why am I getting these weird messages to this address?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 44437	From: Donna Ransome	Date: 11/12/2009
Subject: Re: Why am I getting these weird messages to this address?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 44438	From: Donna Ransome	Date: 11/12/2009
Subject: Re: Why am I getting these weird messages to this address?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 44439	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 11/12/2009
Subject: Re: Why am I getting these weird messages to this address?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 44440	From: Donna Ransome	Date: 11/12/2009
Subject: Re: Why am I getting these weird messages to this address?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 44441	From: Wendie	Date: 11/12/2009
Subject: Re: Why am I getting these weird messages to this address?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 44442	From: bill 1433	Date: 11/12/2009
Subject: Re: wisteria/lighting previous question/response revisited
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 44443	From: bill 1433	Date: 11/12/2009
Subject: Re: Why am I getting these weird messages to this address?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 44444	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 11/12/2009
Subject: Re: Big Poppa's Algae Issue (was Re: Plants growing black hair - ee
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 44445	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 11/12/2009
Subject: Re: Why am I getting these weird messages to this address?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 44446	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 11/12/2009
Subject: Re: Why am I getting these weird messages to this address?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 44447	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 11/12/2009
Subject: Re: Why am I getting these weird messages to this address?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 44448	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 11/12/2009
Subject: Re: wisteria/lighting previous question/response revisited
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 44449	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 11/12/2009
Subject: Re: wisteria/lighting previous question/response revisited
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 44450	From: cat.rose	Date: 11/12/2009
Subject: Re: Plants growing black hair - eek.
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 44451	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 11/12/2009
Subject: Re: Plants growing black hair - eek.
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 44452	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 11/12/2009
Subject: Re: wisteria/lighting previous question/response revisited
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 44453	From: Wendie	Date: 11/12/2009
Subject: Re: Why am I getting these weird messages to this address?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 44454	From: Rev. Eric Roberts	Date: 11/12/2009
Subject: Re: Why am I getting these weird messages to this address?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 44455	From: Rev. Eric Roberts	Date: 11/12/2009
Subject: Re: wisteria/lighting previous question/response revisited
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 44456	From: bill 1433	Date: 11/12/2009
Subject: Re: wisteria/lighting previous question/response revisited
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 44457	From: bill 1433	Date: 11/12/2009
Subject: Re: wisteria/lighting previous question/response revisited
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 44458	From: bill 1433	Date: 11/12/2009
Subject: Re: Why am I getting these weird messages to this address?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 44459	From: bill 1433	Date: 11/12/2009
Subject: Re: wisteria/lighting previous question/response revisited
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 44460	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 11/12/2009
Subject: Re: wisteria/lighting previous question/response revisited
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 44461	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 11/12/2009
Subject: Re: Question about eating snails
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 44462	From: bill 1433	Date: 11/12/2009
Subject: Re: wisteria/lighting previous question/response revisited
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 44463	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 11/12/2009
Subject: Re: Question about eating snails
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 44464	From: gailsugarpants	Date: 11/12/2009
Subject: Peacock with a clouded eye
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 44465	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 11/12/2009
Subject: Re: wisteria/lighting previous question/response revisited
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 44466	From: bill 1433	Date: 11/12/2009
Subject: Re: wisteria/lighting previous question/response revisited
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 44467	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 11/12/2009
Subject: Re: wisteria/lighting previous question/response revisited
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 44468	From: bill 1433	Date: 11/12/2009
Subject: Re: wisteria/lighting previous question/response revisited
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 44469	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 11/12/2009
Subject: Re: wisteria/lighting previous question/response revisited
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 44470	From: Jade	Date: 11/12/2009
Subject: Re: Aquarium heater sedimentation?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 44471	From: erikaandnewton	Date: 11/12/2009
Subject: strong odor
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 44472	From: bill 1433	Date: 11/12/2009
Subject: Re: wisteria/lighting previous question/response revisited
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 44473	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 11/12/2009
Subject: Re: wisteria/lighting previous question/response revisited
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 44474	From: bill 1433	Date: 11/12/2009
Subject: Re: wisteria/lighting previous question/response revisited
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 44475	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 11/12/2009
Subject: Re: Question about eating snails
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 44476	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 11/12/2009
Subject: Re: wisteria/lighting previous question/response revisited
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 44477	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 11/12/2009
Subject: Re: wisteria/lighting previous question/response revisited
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 44478	From: bill 1433	Date: 11/12/2009
Subject: Re: wisteria/lighting previous question/response revisited
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 44479	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 11/12/2009
Subject: Re: Question about eating snails
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 44480	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 11/12/2009
Subject: Re: wisteria/lighting previous question/response revisited
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 44481	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 11/12/2009
Subject: Re: wisteria/lighting previous question/response revisited
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 44482	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 11/12/2009
Subject: Re: wisteria/lighting previous question/response revisited
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 44483	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 11/12/2009
Subject: Re: Question about eating snails
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 44484	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 11/12/2009
Subject: Re: wisteria/lighting previous question/response revisited
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 44485	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 11/12/2009
Subject: Re: wisteria/lighting previous question/response revisited
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 44486	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 11/12/2009
Subject: Re: strong odor
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 44487	From: bill 1433	Date: 11/12/2009
Subject: Re: wisteria/lighting previous question/response revisited
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 44488	From: bill 1433	Date: 11/12/2009
Subject: Re: wisteria/lighting previous question/response revisited
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 44489	From: bill 1433	Date: 11/12/2009
Subject: Re: wisteria/lighting previous question/response revisited
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 44490	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 11/12/2009
Subject: Re: wisteria/lighting previous question/response revisited
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 44491	From: erikaandnewton	Date: 11/12/2009
Subject: Re: strong odor
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 44492	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 11/12/2009
Subject: Re: strong odor
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 44493	From: sevenspringss@wmconnect.com	Date: 11/13/2009
Subject: Re: Peacock with a clouded eye
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 44494	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 11/13/2009
Subject: 7 Over-the-Top Aquariums
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 44495	From: Mike Whitfield	Date: 11/13/2009
Subject: Re: wisteria/lighting previous question/response revisited
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 44496	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 11/13/2009
Subject: Re: Aquarium heater sedimentation?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 44497	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 11/13/2009
Subject: Re: strong odor
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 44498	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 11/13/2009
Subject: Re: 7 Over-the-Top Aquariums
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 44499	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 11/13/2009
Subject: Re: 7 Over-the-Top Aquariums
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 44500	From: harry perry	Date: 11/13/2009
Subject: Re: Question about eating snails/clams and oysters
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 44501	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 11/13/2009
Subject: Re: Question about eating snails/clams and oysters
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 44502	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 11/13/2009
Subject: Re: Question about eating snails/clams and oysters
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 44503	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 11/13/2009
Subject: Re: Question about eating snails/clams and oysters
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 44504	From: harry perry	Date: 11/13/2009
Subject: Re: Question about eating snails/clams and oysters/Amber
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 44505	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 11/13/2009
Subject: Re: Question about eating snails/clams and oysters/Amber
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 44506	From: harry perry	Date: 11/13/2009
Subject: Re: Question about eating snails/clams and oysters/Amber/again
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 44507	From: Gwydryn@aol.com	Date: 11/13/2009
Subject: Re: Question about eating snails/clams and oysters
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 44508	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 11/13/2009
Subject: Re: Question about eating snails/clams and oysters/Amber
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 44509	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 11/13/2009
Subject: Re: Question about eating snails/clams and oysters
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 44510	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 11/13/2009
Subject: Re: Question about eating snails/clams and oysters/Amber
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 44511	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 11/13/2009
Subject: Re: Question about eating snails/clams and oysters/Amber/again
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 44512	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 11/13/2009
Subject: Re: Question about eating snails/clams and oysters
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 44513	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 11/13/2009
Subject: Re: Aquarium heater sedimentation?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 44514	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 11/13/2009
Subject: Re: 7 Over-the-Top Aquariums
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 44515	From: Kathy	Date: 11/14/2009
Subject: has anyone else experienced this?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 44516	From: erikaandnewton	Date: 11/14/2009
Subject: strong odor - reset
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 44517	From: Dora Smith	Date: 11/14/2009
Subject: Re: has anyone else experienced this?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 44518	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 11/14/2009
Subject: Re: has anyone else experienced this?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 44519	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 11/14/2009
Subject: Re: has anyone else experienced this?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 44520	From: Kathy	Date: 11/14/2009
Subject: Re: has anyone else experienced this?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 44521	From: Lainey Alexander	Date: 11/14/2009
Subject: (Not) catching Siamese Algae Eaters
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 44522	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 11/14/2009
Subject: Re: has anyone else experienced this?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 44523	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 11/14/2009
Subject: Re: (Not) catching Siamese Algae Eaters
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 44524	From: Menagerie_Manager	Date: 11/14/2009
Subject: Re: (Not) catching Siamese Algae Eaters
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 44525	From: greychildren	Date: 11/14/2009
Subject: Big Poppa's Algae Issue (was Re: Plants growing black hair - eek.)
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 44526	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 11/14/2009
Subject: Re: Big Poppa's Algae Issue (was Re: Plants growing black hair - ee
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 44527	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 11/14/2009
Subject: Re: strong odor - reset
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 44528	From: Kathy	Date: 11/14/2009
Subject: Re: has anyone else experienced this?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 44529	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 11/14/2009
Subject: Re: Big Poppa's Algae Issue (was Re: Plants growing black hair - ee
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 44530	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 11/14/2009
Subject: Robots to Probe Oceans
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 44531	From: Gwydryn@aol.com	Date: 11/14/2009
Subject: Re: Question about eating snails/clams and oysters
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 44532	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 11/14/2009
Subject: 1500 Gallon Outdoor Aquarium Is Not Drive Thru
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 44533	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 11/14/2009
Subject: Your overgrown with algae tanks useful.
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 44534	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 11/14/2009
Subject: Re: 1500 Gallon Outdoor Aquarium Is Not Drive Thru
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 44535	From: Dora Smith	Date: 11/15/2009
Subject: Re: Your overgrown with algae tanks useful.
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 44536	From: sevenspringss@wmconnect.com	Date: 11/15/2009
Subject: Re: (Not) catching Siamese Algae Eaters
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 44537	From: Jade	Date: 11/15/2009
Subject: Re: Aquarium heater sedimentation?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 44538	From: Donna Ransome	Date: 11/15/2009
Subject: Re: 1500 Gallon Outdoor Aquarium Is Not Drive Thru
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 44539	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 11/15/2009
Subject: Re: 1500 Gallon Outdoor Aquarium Is Not Drive Thru
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 44540	From: kuradi8	Date: 11/15/2009
Subject: Re: More on Vacuums
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 44541	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 11/15/2009
Subject: Re: Aquarium heater sedimentation?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 44542	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 11/15/2009
Subject: Re: 1500 Gallon Outdoor Aquarium Is Not Drive Thru
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 44543	From: kuradi8	Date: 11/15/2009
Subject: Easily Amused
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 44544	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 11/15/2009
Subject: Re: More on Vacuums
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 44545	From: kuradi8	Date: 11/15/2009
Subject: Re: More on Vacuums
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 44546	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 11/15/2009
Subject: Re: Aquarium heater sedimentation?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 44547	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 11/15/2009
Subject: Re: 1500 Gallon Outdoor Aquarium Is Not Drive Thru
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 44548	From: kuradi8	Date: 11/15/2009
Subject: Re: Aquarium heater sedimentation?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 44549	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 11/15/2009
Subject: Re: Aquarium heater sedimentation?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 44550	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 11/15/2009
Subject: Re: Easily Amused
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 44551	From: Menagerie_Manager	Date: 11/15/2009
Subject: Re: Your overgrown with algae tanks useful.
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 44552	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 11/15/2009
Subject: Re: More on Vacuums
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 44553	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 11/15/2009
Subject: Re: Your overgrown with algae tanks useful.
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 44554	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 11/15/2009
Subject: Re: Aquarium heater sedimentation?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 44555	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 11/15/2009
Subject: Re: More on Vacuums
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 44556	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 11/15/2009
Subject: Re: 1500 Gallon Outdoor Aquarium Is Not Drive Thru
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 44557	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 11/15/2009
Subject: Re: Aquarium heater sedimentation?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 44558	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 11/15/2009
Subject: Re: Aquarium heater sedimentation?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 44559	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 11/15/2009
Subject: Re: Your overgrown with algae tanks useful.
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 44560	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 11/15/2009
Subject: Re: Aquarium heater sedimentation?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 44561	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 11/15/2009
Subject: Re: Aquarium heater sedimentation?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 44562	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 11/15/2009
Subject: Re: Aquarium heater sedimentation?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 44563	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 11/15/2009
Subject: Re: Aquarium heater sedimentation?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 44564	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 11/15/2009
Subject: Re: Aquarium heater sedimentation?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 44565	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 11/15/2009
Subject: Re: 1500 Gallon Outdoor Aquarium Is Not Drive Thru
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 44566	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 11/15/2009
Subject: Re: Aquarium heater sedimentation?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 44567	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 11/15/2009
Subject: Re: Aquarium heater sedimentation?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 44568	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 11/15/2009
Subject: Re: Aquarium heater sedimentation?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 44569	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 11/15/2009
Subject: Re: 1500 Gallon Outdoor Aquarium Is Not Drive Thru
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 44570	From: kuradi8	Date: 11/15/2009
Subject: Re: More on Vacuums
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 44571	From: kuradi8	Date: 11/15/2009
Subject: Re: More on Vacuums
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 44572	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 11/15/2009
Subject: Re: 1500 Gallon Outdoor Aquarium Is Not Drive Thru
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 44573	From: sevenspringss@wmconnect.com	Date: 11/15/2009
Subject: Re: Aquarium heater sedimentation?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 44574	From: sevenspringss@wmconnect.com	Date: 11/15/2009
Subject: Re: Aquarium heater sedimentation?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 44575	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 11/15/2009
Subject: Re: Aquarium heater sedimentation?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 44576	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 11/15/2009
Subject: Re: Aquarium heater sedimentation?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 44577	From: bill 1433	Date: 11/15/2009
Subject: Re: Aquarium heater sedimentation?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 44578	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 11/15/2009
Subject: Re: Aquarium heater sedimentation?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 44579	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 11/15/2009
Subject: Re: Aquarium heater sedimentation?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 44580	From: bill 1433	Date: 11/15/2009
Subject: Re: Aquarium heater sedimentation?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 44581	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 11/15/2009
Subject: Re: Aquarium heater sedimentation?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 44582	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 11/15/2009
Subject: Re: Aquarium heater sedimentation?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 44583	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 11/15/2009
Subject: Re: Aquarium heater sedimentation?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 44584	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 11/15/2009
Subject: Re: Aquarium heater sedimentation?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 44585	From: Dawn C.	Date: 11/15/2009
Subject: Re: Aquarium heater sedimentation?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 44586	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 11/15/2009
Subject: Re: Aquarium heater sedimentation?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 44587	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 11/15/2009
Subject: Re: Aquarium heater sedimentation?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 44588	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 11/15/2009
Subject: Re: Aquarium heater sedimentation?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 44589	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 11/15/2009
Subject: Re: Aquarium heater sedimentation?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 44590	From: sevenspringss@wmconnect.com	Date: 11/15/2009
Subject: Re: Aquarium heater sedimentation?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 44591	From: sevenspringss@wmconnect.com	Date: 11/15/2009
Subject: Re: Aquarium heater sedimentation?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 44592	From: bill 1433	Date: 11/16/2009
Subject: Re: Aquarium heater sedimentation?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 44593	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 11/16/2009
Subject: Re: Aquarium heater sedimentation?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 44594	From: sevenspringss@wmconnect.com	Date: 11/16/2009
Subject: Re: Aquarium heater sedimentation?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 44595	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 11/16/2009
Subject: Re: Aquarium heater sedimentation?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 44596	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 11/16/2009
Subject: Re: strong odor - reset
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 44597	From: erikaandnewton	Date: 11/16/2009
Subject: Re: strong odor - reset
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 44598	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 11/16/2009
Subject: Re: strong odor - reset
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 44599	From: erikaandnewton	Date: 11/18/2009
Subject: Re: strong odor - reset
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 44600	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 11/18/2009
Subject: Re: strong odor - reset
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 44601	From: kuradi8	Date: 11/18/2009
Subject: Crazy Filter Question
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 44602	From: sevenspringss@wmconnect.com	Date: 11/18/2009
Subject: Re: Crazy Filter Question
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 44603	From: kuradi8	Date: 11/18/2009
Subject: Re: Crazy Filter Question
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 44604	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 11/18/2009
Subject: Re: Crazy Filter Question
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 44605	From: Dora Smith	Date: 11/18/2009
Subject: Re: Crazy Filter Question
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 44606	From: bill 1433	Date: 11/18/2009
Subject: Re: Crazy Filter Question
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 44607	From: sevenspringss@wmconnect.com	Date: 11/18/2009
Subject: Re: Crazy Filter Question
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 44608	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 11/18/2009
Subject: Re: Crazy Filter Question
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 44609	From: Deenerz@aol.com	Date: 11/18/2009
Subject: Re: Crazy Filter Question
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 44610	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 11/18/2009
Subject: Re: Crazy Filter Question
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 44611	From: erikaandnewton	Date: 11/18/2009
Subject: Re: strong odor - reset
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 44612	From: kuradi8	Date: 11/19/2009
Subject: Re: Crazy Filter Question
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 44613	From: gailsugarpants	Date: 11/19/2009
Subject: Severum Behavior - update
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 44614	From: gailsugarpants	Date: 11/19/2009
Subject: Peacock with a clouded eye -update
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 44615	From: CherylE	Date: 11/20/2009
Subject: Babies
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 44616	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 11/20/2009
Subject: Re: Babies
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 44617	From: CherylE	Date: 11/20/2009
Subject: Re: Babies
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 44618	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 11/20/2009
Subject: Re: Babies
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 44619	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 11/20/2009
Subject: Exotic fish, tropical reefs flourish at Rhinelander's Foster and Smi
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 44620	From: N Taweel	Date: 11/21/2009
Subject: Job needed for a young algae eater
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 44621	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 11/21/2009
Subject: Re: Job needed for a young algae eater
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 44622	From: sevenspringss@wmconnect.com	Date: 11/21/2009
Subject: Re: Job needed for a young algae eater
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 44623	From: Donna Ransome	Date: 11/21/2009
Subject: Re: Job needed for a young algae eater
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 44624	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 11/21/2009
Subject: Re: Job needed for a young algae eater
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 44625	From: Cheryl Ellison	Date: 11/21/2009
Subject: Re: Babies
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 44626	From: bill 1433	Date: 11/21/2009
Subject: Re: Babies
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 44627	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 11/21/2009
Subject: A brand new Myriophyllum for the planted aquarium hobby
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 44628	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 11/21/2009
Subject: Re: Job needed for a young algae eater
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 44629	From: N Taweel	Date: 11/21/2009
Subject: Re: Job needed for a young algae eater
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 44630	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 11/21/2009
Subject: Re: Job needed for a young algae eater
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 44631	From: Menagerie_Manager	Date: 11/21/2009
Subject: Food in the net method (was: Job needed for a young algae eater)
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 44632	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 11/21/2009
Subject: Re: Job needed for a young algae eater
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 44633	From: Donna Ransome	Date: 11/21/2009
Subject: Re: Job needed for a young algae eater
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 44634	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 11/21/2009
Subject: Re: Babies
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 44635	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 11/21/2009
Subject: Re: Job needed for a young algae eater
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 44636	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 11/21/2009
Subject: Re: Job needed for a young algae eater
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 44637	From: Cheryl Ellison	Date: 11/21/2009
Subject: Re: Babies
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 44638	From: Cheryl Ellison	Date: 11/21/2009
Subject: Re: Babies
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 44639	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 11/21/2009
Subject: Re: Job needed for a young algae eater
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 44640	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 11/21/2009
Subject: Re: Job needed for a young algae eater
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 44641	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 11/21/2009
Subject: Re: Job needed for a young algae eater
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 44642	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 11/21/2009
Subject: Re: Job needed for a young algae eater
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 44643	From: kelleyl	Date: 11/21/2009
Subject: Depressed Oscar with hole in the head
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 44644	From: Donna Ransome	Date: 11/21/2009
Subject: Re: Job needed for a young algae eater
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 44645	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 11/21/2009
Subject: Re: Depressed Oscar with hole in the head
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 44646	From: sevenspringss@wmconnect.com	Date: 11/21/2009
Subject: Re: Job needed for a young algae eater
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 44647	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 11/21/2009
Subject: Re: Job needed for a young algae eater
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 44648	From: sevenspringss@wmconnect.com	Date: 11/21/2009
Subject: Re: Depressed Oscar with hole in the head
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 44649	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 11/22/2009
Subject: Paper: STANDARD OF CARE: PET FISH
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 44650	From: Dora Smith	Date: 11/22/2009
Subject: Re: Paper: STANDARD OF CARE: PET FISH
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 44651	From: kelleyl	Date: 11/22/2009
Subject: Re: Depressed Oscar with hole in the head
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 44652	From: noura_taweel	Date: 11/22/2009
Subject: Re: Job needed for a young algae eater
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 44653	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 11/22/2009
Subject: Re: Depressed Oscar with hole in the head
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 44654	From: William M	Date: 11/22/2009
Subject: Re: Depressed Oscar with hole in the head
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 44655	From: William M	Date: 11/22/2009
Subject: Re: Job needed for a young algae eater
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 44656	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 11/23/2009
Subject: Re: Job needed for a young algae eater
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 44657	From: sevenspringss@wmconnect.com	Date: 11/23/2009
Subject: Re: Depressed Oscar with hole in the head
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 44658	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 11/23/2009
Subject: 'Aquascaping' in the new age of aquarium
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 44659	From: Deenerz@aol.com	Date: 11/23/2009
Subject: Re: 'Aquascaping' in the new age of aquarium
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 44660	From: Donna Ransome	Date: 11/23/2009
Subject: Re: 'Aquascaping' in the new age of aquarium
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 44661	From: N Taweel	Date: 11/23/2009
Subject: Re: Job needed for a young algae eater
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 44662	From: gailsugarpants	Date: 11/23/2009
Subject: Flowerhorn Cichlids
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 44663	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 11/23/2009
Subject: Re: Job needed for a young algae eater
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 44664	From: Lainey Alexander	Date: 11/23/2009
Subject: The reality of algae
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 44665	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 11/23/2009
Subject: Re: The reality of algae
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 44666	From: Lainey Alexander	Date: 11/23/2009
Subject: Re: The reality of algae
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 44667	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 11/23/2009
Subject: Re: The reality of algae
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 44668	From: Lainey Alexander	Date: 11/23/2009
Subject: Re: The reality of algae
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 44669	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 11/23/2009
Subject: Re: Job needed for a young algae eater
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 44670	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 11/23/2009
Subject: Re: The reality of algae
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 44671	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 11/23/2009
Subject: Re: The reality of algae
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 44672	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 11/23/2009
Subject: Re: The reality of algae
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 44673	From: johngda@charter.net	Date: 11/23/2009
Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Digest Number 3419
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 44674	From: Lainey Alexander	Date: 11/23/2009
Subject: Re: The reality of algae
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 44675	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 11/23/2009
Subject: Re: The reality of algae
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 44676	From: harry perry	Date: 11/23/2009
Subject: Re: The reality of algae/Amber
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 44677	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 11/23/2009
Subject: Re: The reality of algae
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 44678	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 11/23/2009
Subject: Creatures of the Abyss
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 44679	From: harry perry	Date: 11/23/2009
Subject: Re: The reality of algae/Lainey
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 44680	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 11/24/2009
Subject: Re: The reality of algae
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 44681	From: Lainey Alexander	Date: 11/24/2009
Subject: Re: The reality of algae
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 44682	From: bill 1433	Date: 11/24/2009
Subject: Re: The reality of algae/Lainey
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 44683	From: cat.rose	Date: 11/24/2009
Subject: Re: The reality of algae
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 44684	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 11/24/2009
Subject: Re: The reality of algae
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 44685	From: harry perry	Date: 11/24/2009
Subject: Re: The reality of algae/Lainey/Bill
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 44686	From: harry perry	Date: 11/24/2009
Subject: Re: The reality of algae/Catherine
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 44687	From: harry perry	Date: 11/24/2009
Subject: Re: The reality of algae/Catherine
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 44688	From: TerenceLee1000	Date: 11/24/2009
Subject: seahorses need a new home in los angeles
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 44689	From: N Taweel	Date: 11/24/2009
Subject: Re: Job needed for a young algae eater
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 44690	From: bill 1433	Date: 11/24/2009
Subject: Re: The reality of algae/Catherine and Amber
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 44691	From: N Taweel	Date: 11/24/2009
Subject: Re: Job needed for a young algae eater
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 44692	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 11/24/2009
Subject: Re: The reality of algae
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 44693	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 11/24/2009
Subject: Re: The reality of algae
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 44694	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 11/24/2009
Subject: Re: Job needed for a young algae eater
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 44695	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 11/24/2009
Subject: Re: The reality of algae/Catherine and Amber
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 44696	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 11/24/2009
Subject: Re: Job needed for a young algae eater
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 44697	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 11/24/2009
Subject: Re: The reality of algae
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 44698	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 11/24/2009
Subject: Re: The reality of algae
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 44699	From: Deenerz@aol.com	Date: 11/24/2009
Subject: Re: Job needed for a young algae eater
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 44700	From: Lainey Alexander	Date: 11/24/2009
Subject: Re: The reality of algae/Catherine and Amber
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 44701	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 11/24/2009
Subject: Re: The reality of algae/Catherine and Amber
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 44702	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 11/24/2009
Subject: Re: Job needed for a young algae eater
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 44703	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 11/24/2009
Subject: Re: The reality of algae/Catherine and Amber
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 44704	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 11/24/2009
Subject: Re: The reality of algae
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 44705	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 11/24/2009
Subject: Re: Job needed for a young algae eater
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 44706	From: Gail Armstrong	Date: 11/24/2009
Subject: Thank you for having me and HELP!!
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 44707	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 11/24/2009
Subject: Re: The reality of algae/Catherine
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 44708	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 11/24/2009
Subject: Re: The reality of algae
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 44709	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 11/24/2009
Subject: Re: The reality of algae/Catherine and Amber
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 44710	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 11/24/2009
Subject: Home made CO2 system
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 44711	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 11/24/2009
Subject: Re: The reality of algae/Catherine and Amber
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 44712	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 11/24/2009
Subject: Re: Job needed for a young algae eater
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 44713	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 11/24/2009
Subject: Re: Job needed for a young algae eater
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 44714	From: bruce cohen	Date: 11/24/2009
Subject: Re: seahorses need a new home in los angeles
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 44715	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 11/24/2009
Subject: Re: Job needed for a young algae eater
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 44716	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 11/24/2009
Subject: Re: Thank you for having me and HELP!!
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 44717	From: sevenspringss@wmconnect.com	Date: 11/24/2009
Subject: Re: The reality of algae/Catherine and Amber
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 44718	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 11/24/2009
Subject: Re: Home made CO2 system
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 44719	From: sevenspringss@wmconnect.com	Date: 11/24/2009
Subject: Re: Job needed for a young algae eater
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 44720	From: sevenspringss@wmconnect.com	Date: 11/24/2009
Subject: Re: Thank you for having me and HELP!!
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 44721	From: sevenspringss@wmconnect.com	Date: 11/25/2009
Subject: Re: O/T, was - Re: Job needed for a young algae eater
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 44722	From: N Taweel	Date: 11/25/2009
Subject: Re: Job needed for a young algae eater
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 44723	From: Donna Ransome	Date: 11/25/2009
Subject: Re: Job needed for a young algae eater
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 44724	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 11/25/2009
Subject: Re: Home made CO2 system
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 44725	From: sevenspringss@wmconnect.com	Date: 11/25/2009
Subject: Re: Job needed for a young algae eater
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 44726	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 11/25/2009
Subject: Re: Home made CO2 system
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 44727	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 11/25/2009
Subject: Re: Home made CO2 system
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 44728	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 11/25/2009
Subject: Re: Home made CO2 system
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 44729	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 11/25/2009
Subject: Re: Home made CO2 system
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 44730	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 11/25/2009
Subject: Re: Home made CO2 system
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 44731	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 11/25/2009
Subject: Re: Home made CO2 system
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 44732	From: Gail Armstrong	Date: 11/25/2009
Subject: Re: Thank you for having me and HELP!!
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 44733	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 11/25/2009
Subject: Re: Thank you for having me and HELP!!
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 44734	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 11/25/2009
Subject: Re: Home made CO2 system
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 44735	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 11/25/2009
Subject: Re: Home made CO2 system
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 44736	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 11/25/2009
Subject: Re: Home made CO2 system
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 44737	From: harry perry	Date: 11/25/2009
Subject: Re: Home made CO2 system/Another version
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 44738	From: Gail Armstrong	Date: 11/25/2009
Subject: Tail and Fin Disease
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 44739	From: harry perry	Date: 11/25/2009
Subject: Re: Home made CO2 system/Amber
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 44740	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 11/25/2009
Subject: Re: Home made CO2 system
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 44741	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 11/25/2009
Subject: Re: Home made CO2 system
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 44742	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 11/25/2009
Subject: Re: Home made CO2 system/Another version
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 44743	From: harry perry	Date: 11/25/2009
Subject: Harry's DIY CO2 System
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 44744	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 11/25/2009
Subject: NOAA's Aquarius
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 44745	From: harry perry	Date: 11/25/2009
Subject: Re: NOAA's Aquarius/Steve
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 44746	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 11/25/2009
Subject: Re: Home made CO2 system/Amber
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 44747	From: harry perry	Date: 11/25/2009
Subject: Re: Home made CO2 system/Amber/again
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 44748	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 11/25/2009
Subject: Re: Home made CO2 system
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 44749	From: sevenspringss@wmconnect.com	Date: 11/26/2009
Subject: Re: Holiday Greetings
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 44750	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 11/26/2009
Subject: Re: Holiday Greetings
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 44751	From: pam andress	Date: 11/26/2009
Subject: Re: Holiday Greetings
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 44752	From: biG poppa	Date: 11/26/2009
Subject: Re: Holiday Greetings
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 44753	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 11/26/2009
Subject: Re: Holiday Greetings
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 44754	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 11/26/2009
Subject: Re: Holiday Greetings
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 44755	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 11/26/2009
Subject: Pearling on my plants
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 44756	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 11/26/2009
Subject: Re: Holiday Greetings
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 44757	From: bill 1433	Date: 11/26/2009
Subject: Re: Holiday Greetings
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 44758	From: Lainey Alexander	Date: 11/26/2009
Subject: Catching Siamese Algae Eaters continued
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 44759	From: Laurie Murphy	Date: 11/26/2009
Subject: Re: Holiday Greetings
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 44760	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 11/26/2009
Subject: Re: Holiday Greetings
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 44761	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 11/26/2009
Subject: Re: Catching Siamese Algae Eaters continued
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 44762	From: Lainey Alexander	Date: 11/26/2009
Subject: Re: Catching Siamese Algae Eaters continued
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 44763	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 11/26/2009
Subject: Re: Catching Siamese Algae Eaters continued
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 44764	From: sevenspringss@wmconnect.com	Date: 11/27/2009
Subject: Re: Catching Siamese Algae Eaters continued
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 44765	From: Lainey Alexander	Date: 11/27/2009
Subject: Re: Catching Siamese Algae Eaters continued
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 44766	From: Lainey Alexander	Date: 11/27/2009
Subject: Re: Catching Siamese Algae Eaters continued
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 44767	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 11/27/2009
Subject: Re: Catching Siamese Algae Eaters continued
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 44768	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 11/27/2009
Subject: Re: Catching Siamese Algae Eaters continued
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 44769	From: sevenspringss@wmconnect.com	Date: 11/27/2009
Subject: Re: Catching Siamese Algae Eaters continued
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 44770	From: Kathy	Date: 11/27/2009
Subject: Update on how my betta is doing
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 44771	From: Lainey Alexander	Date: 11/27/2009
Subject: Re: Catching Siamese Algae Eaters continued
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 44772	From: bill 1433	Date: 11/27/2009
Subject: Re: Catching Siamese Algae Eaters continued
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 44773	From: Lainey Alexander	Date: 11/27/2009
Subject: Re: Catching Siamese Algae Eaters continued
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 44774	From: bill 1433	Date: 11/27/2009
Subject: Re: Catching Siamese Algae Eaters continued
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 44775	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 11/27/2009
Subject: Re: Catching Siamese Algae Eaters continued
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 44776	From: bill 1433	Date: 11/27/2009
Subject: Re: Catching Siamese Algae Eaters continued
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 44777	From: Lainey Alexander	Date: 11/27/2009
Subject: Re: Catching Siamese Algae Eaters continued
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 44778	From: bill 1433	Date: 11/27/2009
Subject: Re: Catching Siamese Algae Eaters continued
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 44779	From: sevenspringss@wmconnect.com	Date: 11/27/2009
Subject: Re: Drs Foster & Smith, was: Catching Siamese Algae Eaters cont'd
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 44780	From: sevenspringss@wmconnect.com	Date: 11/27/2009
Subject: Re: Catching Siamese Algae Eaters continued
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 44781	From: sevenspringss@wmconnect.com	Date: 11/27/2009
Subject: Re: Catching Siamese Algae Eaters continued
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 44782	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 11/27/2009
Subject: Re: Catching Siamese Algae Eaters continued
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 44783	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 11/27/2009
Subject: Re: Update on how my betta is doing
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 44784	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 11/27/2009
Subject: Re: Catching Siamese Algae Eaters continued
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 44785	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 11/27/2009
Subject: Re: Catching Siamese Algae Eaters continued
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 44786	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 11/27/2009
Subject: Re: Update on how my betta is doing
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 44787	From: robbrouse	Date: 11/28/2009
Subject: Ammonia Calculator - Paging Lenny
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 44788	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 11/28/2009
Subject: Re: Ammonia Calculator - Paging Lenny
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 44789	From: bill 1433	Date: 11/28/2009
Subject: Re: Ammonia Calculator - Paging Lenny
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 44790	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 11/28/2009
Subject: Re: Ammonia Calculator - Paging Lenny
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 44791	From: Iksnip@aol.com	Date: 11/29/2009
Subject: Proper Substrate for Planted Tanks
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 44792	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 11/29/2009
Subject: Re: Proper Substrate for Planted Tanks
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 44793	From: pam andress	Date: 11/29/2009
Subject: Re: Proper Substrate for Planted Tanks
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 44794	From: Donna Ransome	Date: 11/29/2009
Subject: Re: Proper Substrate for Planted Tanks
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 44795	From: harry perry	Date: 11/29/2009
Subject: Re: Proper Substrate for Planted Tanks/Ken
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 44796	From: Lainey Alexander	Date: 11/29/2009
Subject: Guppy fry
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 44797	From: Cheryl Ellison	Date: 11/29/2009
Subject: Re: Guppy fry
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 44798	From: sevenspringss@wmconnect.com	Date: 11/30/2009
Subject: Re: Proper Substrate for Planted Tanks/Ken
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 44799	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 11/30/2009
Subject: Dosing 55 gallon with flourish excel
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 44800	From: amphibian_ca	Date: 11/30/2009
Subject: Re: Proper Substrate for Planted Tanks
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 44801	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 11/30/2009
Subject: Re: Dosing 55 gallon with flourish excel
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 44802	From: harry perry	Date: 11/30/2009
Subject: Re: Dosing 55 gallon with flourish excel/Amber, another idea.
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 44803	From: N Taweel	Date: 11/30/2009
Subject: Betta?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 44804	From: bill 1433	Date: 11/30/2009
Subject: Re: Dosing 55 gallon with flourish excel
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 44805	From: harry perry	Date: 11/30/2009
Subject: Black Beard Algae
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 44806	From: Donna Ransome	Date: 11/30/2009
Subject: Re: Black Beard Algae
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 44807	From: Lainey Alexander	Date: 11/30/2009
Subject: Re: Betta?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 44808	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 11/30/2009
Subject: Re: Betta?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 44809	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 11/30/2009
Subject: Re: Dosing 55 gallon with flourish excel/Amber, another idea.
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 44810	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 11/30/2009
Subject: Re: Betta?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 44811	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 11/30/2009
Subject: Sad News for Chicagoland Pet Lovers
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 44812	From: sevenspringss@wmconnect.com	Date: 12/1/2009
Subject: Re: Dosing 55 gallon with flourish excel
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 44813	From: Dora Smith	Date: 12/1/2009
Subject: Re: Betta?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 44814	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 12/1/2009
Subject: Re: Dosing 55 gallon with flourish excel
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 44815	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 12/1/2009
Subject: Re: Dosing 55 gallon with flourish excel
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 44816	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 12/1/2009
Subject: Re: Dosing 55 gallon with flourish excel
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 44817	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 12/1/2009
Subject: Re: Dosing 55 gallon with flourish excel
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 44818	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 12/1/2009
Subject: Re: Dosing 55 gallon with flourish excel
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 44819	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 12/1/2009
Subject: Re: Dosing 55 gallon with flourish excel
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 44820	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 12/1/2009
Subject: Re: Dosing 55 gallon with flourish excel
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 44821	From: Dayne	Date: 12/1/2009
Subject: Re: Dosing 55 gallon with flourish excel
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 44822	From: Lainey Alexander	Date: 12/1/2009
Subject: Re: Dosing 55 gallon with flourish excel
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 44823	From: sevenspringss@wmconnect.com	Date: 12/1/2009
Subject: Re: Dosing 55 gallon with flourish excel
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 44824	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 12/1/2009
Subject: Re: Dosing 55 gallon with flourish excel
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 44825	From: Dayne	Date: 12/2/2009
Subject: Re: Dosing 55 gallon with flourish excel
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 44826	From: noura_taweel	Date: 12/2/2009
Subject: Water Testing
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 44827	From: bill 1433	Date: 12/2/2009
Subject: Re: Dosing 55 gallon with flourish excel
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 44828	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 12/2/2009
Subject: Re: Water Testing
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 44829	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 12/2/2009
Subject: Issues with snails
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 44830	From: Lainey Alexander	Date: 12/2/2009
Subject: Re: Issues with snails
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 44831	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 12/2/2009
Subject: U.S. Senate Bill - S 373 - Python Ban threatens ALL pet ownership --
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 44832	From: N Taweel	Date: 12/2/2009
Subject: Re: Water Testing
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 44833	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 12/2/2009
Subject: Re: Issues with snails
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 44834	From: amejia1976	Date: 12/2/2009
Subject: Planted Aquarium
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 44835	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 12/2/2009
Subject: Re: Water Testing
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 44836	From: harry perry	Date: 12/2/2009
Subject: Re: Issues with snails/Amber
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 44837	From: harry perry	Date: 12/2/2009
Subject: Re: Issues with snails/Amber/another thought
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 44838	From: harry perry	Date: 12/2/2009
Subject: Re: Issues with snails/Amber/another thought/Also
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 44839	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 12/2/2009
Subject: Re: Issues with snails/Amber
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 44840	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 12/2/2009
Subject: Re: Issues with snails/Amber/another thought
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 44841	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 12/2/2009
Subject: Re: Issues with snails/Amber/another thought/Also
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 44842	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 12/2/2009
Subject: Re: Issues with snails
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 44843	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 12/2/2009
Subject: Re: Issues with snails
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 44844	From: harry perry	Date: 12/2/2009
Subject: Re: Issues with snails/Amber/again
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 44845	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 12/2/2009
Subject: Re: Issues with snails/Amber/again
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 44846	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 12/2/2009
Subject: Re: Planted Aquarium
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 44847	From: harry perry	Date: 12/2/2009
Subject: Re: Issues with snails/O.K.
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 44848	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 12/2/2009
Subject: Re: Issues with snails
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 44849	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 12/2/2009
Subject: Re: Issues with snails/Amber/again
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 44850	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 12/2/2009
Subject: Re: Issues with snails/Amber/again
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 44851	From: amejia1976	Date: 12/2/2009
Subject: Re: Planted Aquarium
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 44852	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 12/2/2009
Subject: Re: Planted Aquarium
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 44853	From: amejia1976	Date: 12/2/2009
Subject: Re: Planted Aquarium
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 44854	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 12/2/2009
Subject: Re: Planted Aquarium
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 44855	From: caroline cormier	Date: 12/3/2009
Subject: Re: Issues with snails
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 44856	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 12/3/2009
Subject: Re: where is lenny?? (was: Issues with snails)
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 44857	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 12/3/2009
Subject: Re: Planted Aquarium
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 44858	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 12/3/2009
Subject: Re: Planted Aquarium
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 44859	From: amejia1976	Date: 12/3/2009
Subject: Re: Planted Aquarium
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 44860	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 12/3/2009
Subject: Re: Planted Aquarium
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 44861	From: Rev. Eric Roberts	Date: 12/3/2009
Subject: Re: where is lenny?? (was: Issues with snails)
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 44862	From: amphibian_ca	Date: 12/3/2009
Subject: Re: Planted Aquarium
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 44863	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 12/3/2009
Subject: Re: Planted Aquarium
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 44864	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 12/3/2009
Subject: Re: where is lenny?? (was: Issues with snails)
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 44865	From: Lainey Alexander	Date: 12/3/2009
Subject: pea gravel versus fancy stuff
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 44866	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 12/3/2009
Subject: Re: pea gravel versus fancy stuff
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 44867	From: kuradi8	Date: 12/3/2009
Subject: Re: pea gravel versus fancy stuff
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 44868	From: Lainey Alexander	Date: 12/3/2009
Subject: Re: pea gravel versus fancy stuff
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 44869	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 12/3/2009
Subject: Re: pea gravel versus fancy stuff
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 44870	From: Lainey Alexander	Date: 12/3/2009
Subject: Re: pea gravel versus fancy stuff
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 44871	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 12/3/2009
Subject: Re: pea gravel versus fancy stuff
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 44872	From: Lainey Alexander	Date: 12/3/2009
Subject: Re: pea gravel versus fancy stuff
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 44873	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 12/3/2009
Subject: Re: pea gravel versus fancy stuff
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 44875	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 12/3/2009
Subject: Re: pea gravel versus fancy stuff
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 44876	From: greyclouds99	Date: 12/3/2009
Subject: Newbie, and Angelfish question
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 44877	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 12/3/2009
Subject: Re: Newbie, and Angelfish question
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 44878	From: sevenspringss@wmconnect.com	Date: 12/3/2009
Subject: Re: Newbie, and Angelfish question
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 44879	From: amejia1976	Date: 12/4/2009
Subject: Re: Planted Aquarium
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 44880	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 12/4/2009
Subject: Re: Planted Aquarium
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 44881	From: Noura	Date: 12/4/2009
Subject: Re: Betta?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 44882	From: greyclouds99	Date: 12/4/2009
Subject: Another Question ( Newbie, and Angelfish question)
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 44883	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 12/4/2009
Subject: Re: Betta?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 44884	From: greyclouds99	Date: 12/4/2009
Subject: Re: Newbie, and Angelfish question
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 44885	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 12/4/2009
Subject: Re: Another Question ( Newbie, and Angelfish question)
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 44886	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 12/4/2009
Subject: Re: Newbie, and Angelfish question
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 44887	From: Dora Smith	Date: 12/4/2009
Subject: Problem with fish dying in my tank
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 44888	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 12/4/2009
Subject: Re: Problem with fish dying in my tank
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 44889	From: Dora Smith	Date: 12/4/2009
Subject: Re: [Bulk] RE: [AquaticLife] Problem with fish dying in my tank
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 44890	From: Deenerz@aol.com	Date: 12/4/2009
Subject: Re: [Bulk] RE: [AquaticLife] Problem with fish dying in my tank
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 44891	From: Dora Smith	Date: 12/4/2009
Subject: Re: Problem with fish dying in my tank
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 44892	From: Steve Biondi	Date: 12/4/2009
Subject: Advice for Bettas
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 44893	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 12/4/2009
Subject: Re: [Bulk] RE: [AquaticLife] Problem with fish dying in my tank
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 44894	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 12/4/2009
Subject: Re: Advice for Bettas
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 44895	From: Steve Biondi	Date: 12/4/2009
Subject: Re: Advice for Bettas
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 44896	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 12/4/2009
Subject: Re: Planted Aquarium
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 44897	From: Dora Smith	Date: 12/4/2009
Subject: Re: [Bulk] RE: [Bulk] RE: [AquaticLife] Problem with fish dying in m
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 44898	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 12/4/2009
Subject: Re: Advice for Bettas
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 44899	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 12/4/2009
Subject: Re: [Bulk] RE: [Bulk] RE: [AquaticLife] Problem with fish dying in m
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 44900	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 12/4/2009
Subject: Re: [Bulk] RE: [Bulk] RE: [AquaticLife] Problem with fish dying in m
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 44901	From: greyclouds99	Date: 12/5/2009
Subject: RAY- Re: Newbie, and Angelfish question
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 44902	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 12/5/2009
Subject: Re: RAY- Re: Newbie, and Angelfish question
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 44903	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 12/5/2009
Subject: Re: RAY- Re: Newbie, and Angelfish question
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 44904	From: sevenspringss@wmconnect.com	Date: 12/5/2009
Subject: Re: Another Question ( Newbie, and Angelfish question)
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 44905	From: greyclouds99	Date: 12/5/2009
Subject: Another Question ( Newbie, and Angelfish question)
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 44906	From: sevenspringss@wmconnect.com	Date: 12/5/2009
Subject: Re: Another Question ( Newbie, and Angelfish question)
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 44907	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 12/5/2009
Subject: Re: RAY- Re: Newbie, and Angelfish question
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 44908	From: sevenspringss@wmconnect.com	Date: 12/5/2009
Subject: Re: Newbie, and Angelfish question
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 44909	From: greyclouds99	Date: 12/5/2009
Subject: Re: Newbie, and Angelfish question
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 44910	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 12/5/2009
Subject: Re: RAY- Re: Newbie, and Angelfish question
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 44911	From: sevenspringss@wmconnect.com	Date: 12/5/2009
Subject: Re: RAY- Re: Newbie, and Angelfish question
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 44912	From: sevenspringss@wmconnect.com	Date: 12/5/2009
Subject: Re: RAY- Re: Newbie, and Angelfish question
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 44913	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 12/5/2009
Subject: Re: Newbie, and Angelfish question
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 44914	From: sevenspringss@wmconnect.com	Date: 12/5/2009
Subject: Re: Another Question ( Newbie, and Angelfish question)
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 44915	From: sevenspringss@wmconnect.com	Date: 12/5/2009
Subject: Re: Newbie, and Angelfish question
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 44916	From: sevenspringss@wmconnect.com	Date: 12/5/2009
Subject: Re: Another Question ( Newbie, and Angelfish question)
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 44917	From: sevenspringss@wmconnect.com	Date: 12/5/2009
Subject: Re: [Bulk] RE: [AquaticLife] Problem with fish dying in my tank
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 44918	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 12/5/2009
Subject: Re: Newbie, and Angelfish question
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 44919	From: Dora Smith	Date: 12/5/2009
Subject: Re: Problem with fish dying in my tank
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 44920	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 12/5/2009
Subject: questions about Yoyo loaches or other small snail eating loaches.
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 44921	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 12/5/2009
Subject: Re: Problem with fish dying in my tank
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 44922	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 12/5/2009
Subject: Re: questions about Yoyo loaches or other small snail eating loaches
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 44923	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 12/5/2009
Subject: Re: questions about Yoyo loaches or other small snail eating loaches
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 44924	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 12/5/2009
Subject: Re: Problem with fish dying in my tank
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 44925	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 12/5/2009
Subject: Re: Problem with fish dying in my tank
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 44926	From: sevenspringss@wmconnect.com	Date: 12/5/2009
Subject: Re: Problem with fish dying in my tank
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 44927	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 12/5/2009
Subject: Re: questions about Yoyo loaches or other small snail eating loaches
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 44928	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 12/5/2009
Subject: Please read - Important Data Security Notice from Practical Fishkeep
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 44929	From: Dora Smith	Date: 12/5/2009
Subject: Re: [Bulk] Re: [AquaticLife] Problem with fish dying in my tank
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 44930	From: Dora Smith	Date: 12/5/2009
Subject: Re: [Bulk] RE: [AquaticLife] Problem with fish dying in my tank
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 44931	From: Dora Smith	Date: 12/5/2009
Subject: Re: [Bulk] [AquaticLife] Please read - Important Data Security Notic
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 44932	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 12/5/2009
Subject: Re: [Bulk] RE: [AquaticLife] Problem with fish dying in my tank
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 44933	From: sevenspringss@wmconnect.com	Date: 12/5/2009
Subject: Re: Newbie, and Angelfish question
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 44934	From: Dora Smith	Date: 12/5/2009
Subject: Re: [Bulk] RE: [Bulk] RE: [AquaticLife] Problem with fish dying in m
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 44935	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 12/5/2009
Subject: Re: questions about Yoyo loaches or other small snail eating loaches
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 44936	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 12/5/2009
Subject: Re: questions about Yoyo loaches or other small snail eating loaches
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 44937	From: sevenspringss@wmconnect.com	Date: 12/5/2009
Subject: Re: Newbie, and Angelfish question
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 44938	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 12/5/2009
Subject: Re: Newbie, and Angelfish question
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 44939	From: greyclouds99	Date: 12/5/2009
Subject: Re: Newbie, and Angelfish question
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 44940	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 12/5/2009
Subject: Re: questions about Yoyo loaches or other small snail eating loaches
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 44941	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 12/5/2009
Subject: Re: questions about Yoyo loaches or other small snail eating loaches
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 44942	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 12/5/2009
Subject: Re: questions about Yoyo loaches or other small snail eating loaches
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 44943	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 12/5/2009
Subject: Re: Newbie, and Angelfish question
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 44944	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 12/5/2009
Subject: Re: questions about Yoyo loaches or other small snail eating loaches
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 44945	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 12/5/2009
Subject: Re: questions about Yoyo loaches or other small snail eating loaches
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 44946	From: greyclouds99	Date: 12/5/2009
Subject: Re: Newbie, and Angelfish question
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 44947	From: sevenspringss@wmconnect.com	Date: 12/5/2009
Subject: Re: Newbie, and Angelfish question
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 44948	From: Deenerz@aol.com	Date: 12/6/2009
Subject: Re: questions about Yoyo loaches or other small snail eating loaches
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 44949	From: harry perry	Date: 12/6/2009
Subject: Another snail option.
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 44950	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 12/6/2009
Subject: Re: Another snail option.
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 44951	From: Dora Smith	Date: 12/6/2009
Subject: Can I treat the flukes or whatever with miconazole?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 44952	From: Dora Smith	Date: 12/6/2009
Subject: Are you sure this is gill flukes?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 44953	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 12/6/2009
Subject: Re: Can I treat the flukes or whatever with miconazole?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 44954	From: Dora Smith	Date: 12/6/2009
Subject: Re: [Bulk] RE: [AquaticLife] Can I treat the flukes or whatever with
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 44955	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 12/6/2009
Subject: Re: [Bulk] RE: [AquaticLife] Can I treat the flukes or whatever with
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 44956	From: Dora Smith	Date: 12/6/2009
Subject: Re: Can I treat the flukes or whatever with miconazole?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 44957	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 12/6/2009
Subject: Re: Can I treat the flukes or whatever with miconazole?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 44958	From: Dora Smith	Date: 12/6/2009
Subject: Re: Can I treat the flukes or whatever with miconazole?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 44959	From: Dora Smith	Date: 12/6/2009
Subject: Re: [Bulk] RE: [Bulk] RE: [AquaticLife] Can I treat the flukes or wh
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 44960	From: Dora Smith	Date: 12/6/2009
Subject: Re: [Bulk] RE: [Bulk] RE: [AquaticLife] Can I treat the flukes or wh
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 44961	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 12/6/2009
Subject: Re: Can I treat the flukes or whatever with miconazole?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 44962	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 12/6/2009
Subject: Re: [Bulk] RE: [Bulk] RE: [AquaticLife] Can I treat the flukes or wh
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 44963	From: Dora Smith	Date: 12/6/2009
Subject: Re: [Bulk] RE: [AquaticLife] Can I treat the flukes or whatever with
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 44964	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 12/6/2009
Subject: Re: [Bulk] RE: [AquaticLife] Can I treat the flukes or whatever with
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 44965	From: Dora Smith	Date: 12/6/2009
Subject: Re: Can I treat the flukes or whatever with miconazole?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 44966	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 12/6/2009
Subject: Re: questions about Yoyo loaches or other small snail eating loaches
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 44967	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 12/6/2009
Subject: Re: Are you sure this is gill flukes?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 44968	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 12/6/2009
Subject: Re: Another snail option.
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 44969	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 12/6/2009
Subject: Acid Oceans Leave Fish at More Risk from Predators
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 44970	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 12/6/2009
Subject: Re: [Bulk] RE: [AquaticLife] Can I treat the flukes or whatever with
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 44971	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 12/6/2009
Subject: Re: questions about Yoyo loaches or other small snail eating loaches
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 44972	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 12/6/2009
Subject: Re: Acid Oceans Leave Fish at More Risk from Predators
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 44973	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 12/6/2009
Subject: Re: [Bulk] RE: [AquaticLife] Can I treat the flukes or whatever with
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 44974	From: Dora Smith	Date: 12/6/2009
Subject: Re: Are you sure this is gill flukes?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 44975	From: Dora Smith	Date: 12/6/2009
Subject: Contents of Dora's fish medicine cabinet
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 44976	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 12/6/2009
Subject: Re: questions about Yoyo loaches or other small snail eating loaches
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 44977	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 12/6/2009
Subject: Re: Are you sure this is gill flukes?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 44978	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 12/6/2009
Subject: Re: Contents of Dora's fish medicine cabinet
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 44979	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 12/6/2009
Subject: Madagascar lace plant and other Aponogetton's
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 44980	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 12/6/2009
Subject: Re: Madagascar lace plant and other Aponogetton's
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 44981	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 12/6/2009
Subject: Re: questions about Yoyo loaches or other small snail eating loaches
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 44982	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 12/6/2009
Subject: Re: questions about Yoyo loaches or other small snail eating loaches
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 44983	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 12/6/2009
Subject: Re: Madagascar lace plant and other Aponogetton's
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 44984	From: Dora Smith	Date: 12/6/2009
Subject: Re: [Bulk] RE: [AquaticLife] Contents of Dora's fish medicine cabine
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 44985	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 12/6/2009
Subject: 5 fish species beginners make the mistake of buying.
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 44986	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 12/6/2009
Subject: Re: Madagascar lace plant and other Aponogetton's
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 44987	From: bill 1433	Date: 12/6/2009
Subject: Re: questions about Yoyo loaches or other small snail eating loaches
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 44988	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 12/6/2009
Subject: Re: questions about Yoyo loaches or other small snail eating loaches
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 44989	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 12/6/2009
Subject: Re: Madagascar lace plant and other Aponogetton's
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 44990	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 12/6/2009
Subject: Re: questions about Yoyo loaches or other small snail eating loaches
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 44991	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 12/6/2009
Subject: Re: Madagascar lace plant and other Aponogetton's
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 44992	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 12/6/2009
Subject: The Armory of Freshwater Aquarium Maintenance Tools
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 44993	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 12/6/2009
Subject: Re: Acid Oceans Leave Fish at More Risk from Predators
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 44994	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 12/6/2009
Subject: Re: questions about Yoyo loaches or other small snail eating loaches
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 44995	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 12/6/2009
Subject: Re: questions about Yoyo loaches or other small snail eating loaches
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 44996	From: Menagerie_Manager	Date: 12/6/2009
Subject: Re: 5 fish species beginners make the mistake of buying.
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 44997	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 12/6/2009
Subject: Re: 5 fish species beginners make the mistake of buying.
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 44998	From: Donna Ransome	Date: 12/6/2009
Subject: Re: 5 fish species beginners make the mistake of buying.
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 44999	From: harry perry	Date: 12/6/2009
Subject: Re: Madagascar lace plant and other Aponogetton's/Amber
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 45000	From: harry perry	Date: 12/6/2009
Subject: O.K. a new challenge
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 45001	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 12/6/2009
Subject: Re: O.K. a new challenge
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 45002	From: harry perry	Date: 12/6/2009
Subject: Re: O.K. a new challenge
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 45003	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 12/6/2009
Subject: Re: O.K. a new challenge
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 45004	From: harry perry	Date: 12/6/2009
Subject: Re: O.K. a new challenge/Amber
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 45005	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 12/6/2009
Subject: Re: O.K. a new challenge
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 45006	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 12/7/2009
Subject: Re: The Armory of Freshwater Aquarium Maintenance Tools
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 45007	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 12/7/2009
Subject: Cyanobacteria
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 45008	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 12/7/2009
Subject: Re: Cyanobacteria
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 45009	From: Dora Smith	Date: 12/7/2009
Subject: Re: Cyanobacteria
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 45010	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 12/7/2009
Subject: Re: Cyanobacteria
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 45011	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 12/7/2009
Subject: Re: The Armory of Freshwater Aquarium Maintenance Tools
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 45012	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 12/7/2009
Subject: Re: The Armory of Freshwater Aquarium Maintenance Tools
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 45013	From: sevenspringss@wmconnect.com	Date: 12/7/2009
Subject: Re: Newbie, and Angelfish question
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 45014	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 12/8/2009
Subject: Re: Newbie, and Angelfish question
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 45015	From: sevenspringss@wmconnect.com	Date: 12/8/2009
Subject: Re: Newbie, and Angelfish question
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 45016	From: Dora Smith	Date: 12/8/2009
Subject: OK, here's my purple algae
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 45017	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 12/8/2009
Subject: Re: OK, here's my purple algae
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 45018	From: bill 1433	Date: 12/8/2009
Subject: Re: Newbie, and Angelfish question
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 45019	From: bill 1433	Date: 12/8/2009
Subject: Re: OK, here's my purple algae
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 45020	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 12/8/2009
Subject: Re: OK, here's my purple algae
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 45021	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 12/8/2009
Subject: update on black beard algae
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 45022	From: pam andress	Date: 12/8/2009
Subject: Re: update on black beard algae
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 45023	From: Dora Smith	Date: 12/8/2009
Subject: Can slime mold invade aquariums?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 45024	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 12/8/2009
Subject: Re: OK, here's my purple algae
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 45025	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 12/8/2009
Subject: Re: Can slime mold invade aquariums?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 45026	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 12/8/2009
Subject: http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com ranked on XMarks.com - Thanks!!!
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 45027	From: bill 1433	Date: 12/8/2009
Subject: Re: OK, here's my purple algae
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 45028	From: bill 1433	Date: 12/8/2009
Subject: Re: http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com ranked on XMarks.com - Thanks!!!
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 45029	From: Dora Smith	Date: 12/8/2009
Subject: Re: [Bulk] RE: [AquaticLife] OK, here's my purple algae
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 45030	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 12/8/2009
Subject: Re: [Bulk] RE: [AquaticLife] OK, here's my purple algae
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 45031	From: cobra427lady	Date: 12/8/2009
Subject: New to the Group
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 45032	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 12/8/2009
Subject: Re: http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com ranked on XMarks.com - Thanks!!!
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 45033	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 12/8/2009
Subject: Re: http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com ranked on XMarks.com - Thanks!!!
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 45034	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 12/8/2009
Subject: Re: New to the Group
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 45035	From: amejia1976	Date: 12/8/2009
Subject: Re: Planted Aquarium
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 45036	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 12/8/2009
Subject: Re: Planted Aquarium
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 45037	From: amejia1976	Date: 12/9/2009
Subject: Re: Planted Aquarium
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 45038	From: greyclouds99	Date: 12/9/2009
Subject: Update on my sick Angelfish
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 45039	From: greyclouds99	Date: 12/9/2009
Subject: Re: Update on my sick Angelfish
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 45040	From: sevenspringss@wmconnect.com	Date: 12/9/2009
Subject: Re: Update on my sick Angelfish
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 45041	From: sevenspringss@wmconnect.com	Date: 12/9/2009
Subject: Re: Update on my sick Angelfish
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 45042	From: sevenspringss@wmconnect.com	Date: 12/9/2009
Subject: Re: Newbie, and Angelfish question
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 45043	From: Dora Smith	Date: 12/9/2009
Subject: Re: [Bulk] RE: [Bulk] RE: [AquaticLife] OK, here's my purple algae
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 45044	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 12/9/2009
Subject: Re: Update on my sick Angelfish
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 45045	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 12/9/2009
Subject: Re: Update on my sick Angelfish
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 45046	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 12/9/2009
Subject: Re: Planted Aquarium
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 45047	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 12/9/2009
Subject: Re: Planted Aquarium
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 45048	From: bill 1433	Date: 12/9/2009
Subject: Re: Newbie, and Angelfish question
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 45049	From: sevenspringss@wmconnect.com	Date: 12/9/2009
Subject: Re: Update on my sick Angelfish
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 45050	From: sevenspringss@wmconnect.com	Date: 12/9/2009
Subject: Re: The Aquarium Magazine, was - Newbie, and Angelfish question
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 45051	From: amejia1976	Date: 12/9/2009
Subject: Re: Planted Aquarium
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 45052	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 12/9/2009
Subject: Re: The Aquarium Magazine, was - Newbie, and Angelfish question
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 45053	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 12/9/2009
Subject: Re: Planted Aquarium
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 45054	From: greyclouds99	Date: 12/10/2009
Subject: Re: Update on my sick Angelfish
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 45055	From: sevenspringss@wmconnect.com	Date: 12/10/2009
Subject: Re: Update on my sick Angelfish
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 45056	From: sevenspringss@wmconnect.com	Date: 12/10/2009
Subject: Re: Angelfish Breeding Background, was - Newbie, and Angelfish que
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 45057	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 12/10/2009
Subject: Re: Update on my sick Angelfish
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 45058	From: greyclouds99	Date: 12/10/2009
Subject: Re: Update on my sick Angelfish
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 45059	From: greyclouds99	Date: 12/10/2009
Subject: Re: Update on my sick Angelfish
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 45060	From: cobra427lady	Date: 12/10/2009
Subject: Deep Water Air Pumps
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 45061	From: cobra427lady	Date: 12/10/2009
Subject: Re: New to the Group
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 45062	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 12/10/2009
Subject: Re: Update on my sick Angelfish
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 45063	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 12/10/2009
Subject: Re: Update on my sick Angelfish
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 45064	From: cat.rose	Date: 12/10/2009
Subject: Buying Cherry Shrimp
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 45065	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 12/10/2009
Subject: Re: Buying Cherry Shrimp
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 45066	From: pam andress	Date: 12/10/2009
Subject: Re: Buying Cherry Shrimp
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 45067	From: sevenspringss@wmconnect.com	Date: 12/10/2009
Subject: Re: Update on my sick Angelfish
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 45068	From: Kevin Boyle	Date: 12/10/2009
Subject: Re: Deep Water Air Pumps
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 45069	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 12/10/2009
Subject: Re: Buying Cherry Shrimp
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 45070	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 12/10/2009
Subject: Re: Buying Cherry Shrimp
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 45071	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 12/10/2009
Subject: Re: Deep Water Air Pumps
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 45072	From: pam andress	Date: 12/10/2009
Subject: Re: Buying Cherry Shrimp
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 45073	From: Kathy	Date: 12/10/2009
Subject: question
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 45074	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 12/10/2009
Subject: Re: New to the Group
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 45075	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 12/10/2009
Subject: Re: question
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 45076	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 12/10/2009
Subject: Re: New to the Group
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 45077	From: cobra427lady	Date: 12/10/2009
Subject: Re: New to the Group
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 45078	From: cobra427lady	Date: 12/10/2009
Subject: Re: Deep Water Air Pumps
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 45079	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 12/10/2009
Subject: Re: Update on my sick Angelfish
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 45080	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 12/10/2009
Subject: Re: Update on my sick Angelfish
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 45081	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 12/10/2009
Subject: Re: New to the Group
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 45082	From: cobra427lady	Date: 12/10/2009
Subject: Re: Deep Water Air Pumps
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 45083	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 12/10/2009
Subject: Re: Update on my sick Angelfish
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 45084	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 12/10/2009
Subject: Re: Buying Cherry Shrimp
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 45085	From: pam andress	Date: 12/10/2009
Subject: Re: Buying Cherry Shrimp
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 45086	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 12/10/2009
Subject: Re: Buying Cherry Shrimp
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 45087	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 12/10/2009
Subject: Re: question
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 45088	From: Aaron R. Martin, cmt	Date: 12/10/2009
Subject: Re: question ~ 125 gallon tank
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 45089	From: pam andress	Date: 12/10/2009
Subject: Re: Buying Cherry Shrimp
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 45090	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 12/10/2009
Subject: Re: New to the Group
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 45091	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 12/10/2009
Subject: Re: Buying Cherry Shrimp
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 45092	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 12/10/2009
Subject: Re: Buying Cherry Shrimp
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 45093	From: amejia1976	Date: 12/10/2009
Subject: Re: Planted Aquarium
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 45094	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 12/10/2009
Subject: Re: Planted Aquarium
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 45095	From: bill 1433	Date: 12/11/2009
Subject: Re: Planted Aquarium
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 45096	From: cat.rose	Date: 12/11/2009
Subject: Re: Buying Cherry Shrimp
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 45097	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 12/11/2009
Subject: Re: Planted Aquarium
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 45098	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 12/11/2009
Subject: Re: Buying Cherry Shrimp
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 45099	From: pam andress	Date: 12/11/2009
Subject: Re: Buying Cherry Shrimp
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 45100	From: pam andress	Date: 12/11/2009
Subject: Re: Buying Cherry Shrimp
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 45101	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 12/11/2009
Subject: Re: Buying Cherry Shrimp
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 45102	From: pam andress	Date: 12/11/2009
Subject: Re: Buying Cherry Shrimp
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 45103	From: bill 1433	Date: 12/11/2009
Subject: Re: Buying Cherry Shrimp
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 45104	From: cat.rose	Date: 12/11/2009
Subject: Re: Buying Cherry Shrimp
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 45105	From: pam andress	Date: 12/11/2009
Subject: Re: Buying Cherry Shrimp
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 45106	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 12/11/2009
Subject: Re: Buying Cherry Shrimp
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 45107	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 12/11/2009
Subject: Re: Buying Cherry Shrimp
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 45108	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 12/11/2009
Subject: Re: Buying Cherry Shrimp
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 45109	From: cat.rose	Date: 12/11/2009
Subject: GloFish, aka Zebra Danio
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 45110	From: Menagerie_Manager	Date: 12/11/2009
Subject: I bought a Squid for my Goldfish Tank!
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 45111	From: Dora Smith	Date: 12/11/2009
Subject: Re: [Bulk] RE: [AquaticLife] Re: Buying Cherry Shrimp
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 45112	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 12/11/2009
Subject: Re: GloFish, aka Zebra Danio
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 45113	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 12/11/2009
Subject: Re: [Bulk] RE: [AquaticLife] Re: Buying Cherry Shrimp
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 45114	From: pam andress	Date: 12/11/2009
Subject: Re: Buying Cherry Shrimp
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 45115	From: pam andress	Date: 12/11/2009
Subject: Re: Buying Cherry Shrimp
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 45116	From: Dora Smith	Date: 12/11/2009
Subject: Re: I bought a Squid for my Goldfish Tank!
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 45117	From: Menagerie_Manager	Date: 12/11/2009
Subject: Re: I bought a Squid for my Goldfish Tank!
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 45118	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 12/12/2009
Subject: Innes Book on Google Books
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 45119	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 12/12/2009
Subject: Re: I bought a Squid for my Goldfish Tank!
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 45120	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 12/12/2009
Subject: Re: Innes Book on Google Books
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 45121	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 12/12/2009
Subject: Re: Innes Book on Google Books
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 45122	From: sevenspringss@wmconnect.com	Date: 12/12/2009
Subject: Re: Innes Book on Google Books
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 45123	From: amejia1976	Date: 12/12/2009
Subject: Re: Planted Aquarium
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 45124	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 12/13/2009
Subject: Giant Jellyfish
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 45125	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 12/13/2009
Subject: Re: Planted Aquarium
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 45126	From: kuradi8	Date: 12/13/2009
Subject: It's a Christmas Miracle!
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 45127	From: Lainey Alexander	Date: 12/13/2009
Subject: Blue rams hatching!
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 45128	From: sevenspringss@wmconnect.com	Date: 12/13/2009
Subject: Re: Blue rams hatching!
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 45129	From: Lainey Alexander	Date: 12/13/2009
Subject: Re: Blue rams hatching!
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 45130	From: sevenspringss@wmconnect.com	Date: 12/14/2009
Subject: Re: Blue rams hatching!
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 45131	From: bill 1433	Date: 12/14/2009
Subject: Re: Blue rams hatching!
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 45132	From: kuradi8	Date: 12/14/2009
Subject: Re: Blue rams hatching!
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 45133	From: bill 1433	Date: 12/14/2009
Subject: Re: Blue rams hatching!
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 45134	From: young.souls	Date: 12/14/2009
Subject: Re: Blue rams hatching!
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 45135	From: sevenspringss@wmconnect.com	Date: 12/14/2009
Subject: Re: Blue rams hatching!
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 45136	From: Lainey Alexander	Date: 12/14/2009
Subject: Re: Blue rams hatching!
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 45137	From: Lainey Alexander	Date: 12/14/2009
Subject: Re: Blue rams hatching!
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 45138	From: Lainey Alexander	Date: 12/14/2009
Subject: Re: Blue rams hatching!
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 45139	From: young.souls	Date: 12/14/2009
Subject: Re: Blue rams hatching!
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 45140	From: bill 1433	Date: 12/14/2009
Subject: Re: Blue rams hatching!
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 45141	From: Lainey Alexander	Date: 12/14/2009
Subject: Ram fry update
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 45142	From: sevenspringss@wmconnect.com	Date: 12/14/2009
Subject: Re: Blue rams hatching!
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 45143	From: sevenspringss@wmconnect.com	Date: 12/14/2009
Subject: Re: Blue rams hatching!
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 45144	From: Lainey Alexander	Date: 12/14/2009
Subject: Re: Blue rams hatching!
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 45145	From: sevenspringss@wmconnect.com	Date: 12/14/2009
Subject: Re: Ram fry update
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 45146	From: pam andress	Date: 12/14/2009
Subject: Re: Blue rams hatching!
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 45147	From: sevenspringss@wmconnect.com	Date: 12/14/2009
Subject: Re: Blue rams hatching!
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 45148	From: Lainey Alexander	Date: 12/14/2009
Subject: Re: Blue rams hatching!
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 45149	From: kuradi8	Date: 12/14/2009
Subject: Re: Blue rams hatching!
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 45150	From: Lainey Alexander	Date: 12/14/2009
Subject: Re: Blue rams hatching!
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 45151	From: bill 1433	Date: 12/14/2009
Subject: Re: Blue rams hatching!
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 45152	From: Lainey Alexander	Date: 12/14/2009
Subject: Re: Ram fry update
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 45153	From: Lainey Alexander	Date: 12/14/2009
Subject: Re: Blue rams hatching!
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 45154	From: bill 1433	Date: 12/14/2009
Subject: Re: Blue rams hatching!
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 45155	From: bill 1433	Date: 12/14/2009
Subject: Re: Blue rams hatching!
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 45156	From: bill 1433	Date: 12/14/2009
Subject: Re: Blue rams hatching!
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 45157	From: Richard Rattie	Date: 12/14/2009
Subject: deep freeze
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 45158	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 12/14/2009
Subject: Re: Blue rams hatching!
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 45159	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 12/14/2009
Subject: Re: Blue rams hatching!
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 45160	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 12/14/2009
Subject: Re: Blue rams hatching!
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 45161	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 12/14/2009
Subject: Re: deep freeze
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 45162	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 12/14/2009
Subject: Re: Blue rams hatching!
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 45163	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 12/14/2009
Subject: Re: Blue rams hatching!
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 45164	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 12/14/2009
Subject: Re: Blue rams hatching!
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 45165	From: bill 1433	Date: 12/14/2009
Subject: Re: Blue rams hatching!
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 45166	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 12/14/2009
Subject: Re: Blue rams hatching!
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 45167	From: erikaandnewton	Date: 12/14/2009
Subject: rotting anubias
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 45168	From: kuradi8	Date: 12/14/2009
Subject: Re: Blue rams hatching!
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 45169	From: bill 1433	Date: 12/14/2009
Subject: Re: Blue rams hatching!
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 45170	From: pam andress	Date: 12/14/2009
Subject: Re: Blue rams hatching!
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 45171	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 12/14/2009
Subject: Re: Blue rams hatching!
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 45172	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 12/14/2009
Subject: Re: Blue rams hatching!
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 45173	From: Lainey Alexander	Date: 12/14/2009
Subject: Purple grass guppies
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 45174	From: Lainey Alexander	Date: 12/14/2009
Subject: Re: Blue rams hatching!
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 45175	From: Lainey Alexander	Date: 12/14/2009
Subject: Re: Blue rams hatching!
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 45176	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 12/14/2009
Subject: Re: rotting anubias
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 45177	From: erikaandnewton	Date: 12/15/2009
Subject: Re: rotting anubias
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 45178	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 12/15/2009
Subject: Re: rotting anubias
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 45179	From: amejia1976	Date: 12/16/2009
Subject: Re: Planted Aquarium
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 45180	From: amejia1976	Date: 12/16/2009
Subject: Python No Spill Clean 'N Fill
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 45181	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 12/16/2009
Subject: Re: Planted Aquarium
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 45182	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 12/16/2009
Subject: Re: Python No Spill Clean 'N Fill
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 45183	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 12/16/2009
Subject: Re: Planted Aquarium
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 45184	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 12/16/2009
Subject: Re: Python No Spill Clean 'N Fill
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 45185	From: bill 1433	Date: 12/16/2009
Subject: Re: Python No Spill Clean 'N Fill
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 45186	From: David Keymel	Date: 12/16/2009
Subject: Re: Python No Spill Clean 'N Fill
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 45187	From: Kathy	Date: 12/16/2009
Subject: Betta update
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 45188	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 12/16/2009
Subject: Re: Python No Spill Clean 'N Fill
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 45189	From: bill 1433	Date: 12/16/2009
Subject: Re: Python No Spill Clean 'N Fill
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 45190	From: Dora Smith	Date: 12/16/2009
Subject: Re: Betta update
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 45191	From: bill 1433	Date: 12/16/2009
Subject: Re: Betta update
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 45192	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 12/16/2009
Subject: Re: Betta update
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 45193	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 12/16/2009
Subject: Re: Python No Spill Clean 'N Fill
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 45194	From: harry perry	Date: 12/16/2009
Subject: Fw: {ArtAnon} Nice Little Story For Christmas/ O.T.
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 45195	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 12/16/2009
Subject: Re: Fw: {ArtAnon} Nice Little Story For Christmas/ O.T.
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 45196	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 12/16/2009
Subject: Re: Fw: {ArtAnon} Nice Little Story For Christmas/ O.T.
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 45197	From: amejia1976	Date: 12/16/2009
Subject: Re: Planted Aquarium
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 45198	From: amejia1976	Date: 12/16/2009
Subject: Re: Python No Spill Clean 'N Fill
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 45199	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 12/16/2009
Subject: Re: Planted Aquarium
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 45200	From: young.souls	Date: 12/17/2009
Subject: Fish Food Disaster
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 45201	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 12/17/2009
Subject: Re: Fish Food Disaster
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 45202	From: young.souls	Date: 12/17/2009
Subject: Re: Fish Food Disaster
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 45203	From: gcalin2001	Date: 12/17/2009
Subject: Koi parasite?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 45204	From: sevenspringss@wmconnect.com	Date: 12/17/2009
Subject: Re: Planted Aquarium
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 45205	From: sevenspringss@wmconnect.com	Date: 12/17/2009
Subject: Re: Betta update
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 45206	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 12/17/2009
Subject: Re: Koi parasite?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 45207	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 12/17/2009
Subject: Re: Koi parasite?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 45208	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 12/17/2009
Subject: Re: Betta update
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 45209	From: Dora Smith	Date: 12/17/2009
Subject: Re: Betta update
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 45210	From: harry perry	Date: 12/17/2009
Subject: My Red Lotus
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 45211	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 12/17/2009
Subject: Re: Fish Food Disaster
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 45212	From: Dora Smith	Date: 12/17/2009
Subject: Re: Fish Food Disaster
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 45213	From: gcalin2001	Date: 12/18/2009
Subject: Re: Koi parasite?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 45214	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 12/18/2009
Subject: Re: Koi parasite?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 45215	From: pyroteck1	Date: 12/18/2009
Subject: Re: Python No Spill Clean 'N Fill
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 45216	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 12/18/2009
Subject: Re: Python No Spill Clean 'N Fill
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 45217	From: greyclouds99	Date: 12/19/2009
Subject: Angelfish Update
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 45218	From: young.souls	Date: 12/19/2009
Subject: Re: Fish Food Disaster
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 45219	From: sevenspringss@wmconnect.com	Date: 12/19/2009
Subject: Re: Angelfish Update
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 45220	From: Larry	Date: 12/19/2009
Subject: Re: Python No Spill Clean 'N Fill
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 45221	From: young.souls	Date: 12/19/2009
Subject: Re: Angelfish Update
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 45222	From: sevenspringss@wmconnect.com	Date: 12/19/2009
Subject: Re: Angelfish Update
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 45223	From: greyclouds99	Date: 12/20/2009
Subject: Re: Angelfish Update
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 45224	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 12/20/2009
Subject: What's In Your Water
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 45225	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 12/20/2009
Subject: Re: Angelfish Update
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 45226	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 12/20/2009
Subject: Re: Angelfish Update
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 45227	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 12/20/2009
Subject: Nitrifying Bacteria
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 45228	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 12/20/2009
Subject: Re: Angelfish Update
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 45229	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 12/20/2009
Subject: Re: Angelfish Update
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 45230	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 12/20/2009
Subject: A List of DON'Ts from: 100 Years Of Fishkeeping... An article By Dr.
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 45231	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 12/20/2009
Subject: Re: Nitrifying Bacteria
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 45232	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 12/20/2009
Subject: Re: Angelfish Update
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 45233	From: sevenspringss@wmconnect.com	Date: 12/20/2009
Subject: Re: Angelfish Update
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 45234	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 12/20/2009
Subject: Re: Angelfish Update
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 45235	From: sevenspringss@wmconnect.com	Date: 12/20/2009
Subject: Re: Nitrifying Bacteria
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 45236	From: bill 1433	Date: 12/20/2009
Subject: Re: Angelfish Update
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 45237	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 12/20/2009
Subject: Re: A List of DON'Ts from: 100 Years Of Fishkeeping... An article By
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 45238	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 12/20/2009
Subject: Re: Nitrifying Bacteria
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 45239	From: bill 1433	Date: 12/20/2009
Subject: Re: Nitrifying Bacteria
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 45240	From: sevenspringss@wmconnect.com	Date: 12/20/2009
Subject: Re: Angelfish Update
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 45241	From: bill 1433	Date: 12/20/2009
Subject: Re: Angelfish Update
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 45242	From: sevenspringss@wmconnect.com	Date: 12/20/2009
Subject: Re: Nitrifying Bacteria
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 45243	From: bill 1433	Date: 12/20/2009
Subject: Re: Nitrifying Bacteria
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 45244	From: bill 1433	Date: 12/20/2009
Subject: Franklin Barrett
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 45245	From: bill 1433	Date: 12/20/2009
Subject: Canister Filters?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 45246	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 12/20/2009
Subject: Re: Canister Filters?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 45247	From: bill 1433	Date: 12/20/2009
Subject: Re: Canister Filters?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 45248	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 12/20/2009
Subject: Re: Nitrifying Bacteria
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 45249	From: bill 1433	Date: 12/20/2009
Subject: Re: Nitrifying Bacteria
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 45250	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 12/20/2009
Subject: Re: Canister Filters?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 45251	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 12/20/2009
Subject: Phenomenon of Intersex Fish -- Legislation
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 45252	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 12/20/2009
Subject: Re: A List of DON'Ts from: 100 Years Of Fishkeeping... An article By
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 45253	From: bill 1433	Date: 12/20/2009
Subject: Re: Canister Filters?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 45254	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 12/20/2009
Subject: Re: Phenomenon of Intersex Fish -- Legislation
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 45255	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 12/20/2009
Subject: Re: A List of DON'Ts from: 100 Years Of Fishkeeping... An article By
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 45256	From: bill 1433	Date: 12/20/2009
Subject: Re: Canister Filters?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 45257	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 12/20/2009
Subject: Re: Canister Filters?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 45258	From: Donna Ransome	Date: 12/20/2009
Subject: Re: Canister Filters?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 45259	From: pam andress	Date: 12/20/2009
Subject: Re: Canister Filters?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 45260	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 12/20/2009
Subject: Re: Canister Filters?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 45261	From: cobra427lady	Date: 12/20/2009
Subject: Re: Canister Filters?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 45262	From: cobra427lady	Date: 12/20/2009
Subject: Re: Canister Filters?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 45263	From: Lisa Lawless	Date: 12/20/2009
Subject: Wanting to upsize...
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 45264	From: greychildren	Date: 12/20/2009
Subject: My first ciclid tank
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 45265	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 12/21/2009
Subject: Re: Wanting to upsize...
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 45266	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 12/21/2009
Subject: Re: My first ciclid tank
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 45267	From: bill 1433	Date: 12/21/2009
Subject: Re: Canister Filters?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 45268	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 12/21/2009
Subject: Re: Canister Filters?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 45269	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 12/21/2009
Subject: Re: Canister Filters?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 45270	From: William M	Date: 12/21/2009
Subject: Re: My first ciclid tank
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 45271	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 12/21/2009
Subject: Re: Canister Filters?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 45272	From: bill 1433	Date: 12/21/2009
Subject: Re: Canister Filters?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 45273	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 12/21/2009
Subject: Re: Canister Filters?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 45274	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 12/21/2009
Subject: Re: Canister Filters?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 45275	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 12/21/2009
Subject: Re: Wanting to upsize...
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 45276	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 12/21/2009
Subject: Re: Canister Filters?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 45277	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 12/21/2009
Subject: Re: Canister Filters?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 45278	From: false	Date: 12/21/2009
Subject: Re: My first ciclid tank
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 45279	From: Springer,James C.	Date: 12/22/2009
Subject: Re: Canister Filters?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 45280	From: bill 1433	Date: 12/22/2009
Subject: Re: Canister Filters?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 45281	From: Debra Melton	Date: 12/22/2009
Subject: Re: Canister Filters?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 45282	From: Sam Palermo	Date: 12/22/2009
Subject: Re: Canister Filters?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 45283	From: bill 1433	Date: 12/22/2009
Subject: Re: Canister Filters?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 45284	From: Avin Deen	Date: 12/23/2009
Subject: Re: Canister Filters?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 45285	From: Dora Smith	Date: 12/23/2009
Subject: Help. Nathaniel the Fish has a mane!
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 45286	From: tiggernut24	Date: 12/23/2009
Subject: Help - Nathaniel teh fish has a mane
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 45287	From: Springer,James C.	Date: 12/23/2009
Subject: Re: Canister Filters?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 45288	From: Dora Smith	Date: 12/23/2009
Subject: Re: Help. Nathaniel the Fish has a mane!
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 45289	From: Debra Melton	Date: 12/23/2009
Subject: Re: Canister Filters?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 45290	From: Deenerz@aol.com	Date: 12/23/2009
Subject: Re: Canister Filters?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 45291	From: bill 1433	Date: 12/23/2009
Subject: Re: Canister Filters?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 45292	From: bill 1433	Date: 12/23/2009
Subject: Re: Canister Filters?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 45293	From: dmelton2@gmail.com	Date: 12/23/2009
Subject: Re: Canister Filters?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 45294	From: Mike Whitfield	Date: 12/23/2009
Subject: Re: Canister Filters?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 45295	From: bill 1433	Date: 12/23/2009
Subject: Re: Canister Filters?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 45296	From: kuradi8	Date: 12/24/2009
Subject: Re: Canister Filters?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 45297	From: bill 1433	Date: 12/24/2009
Subject: Re: Canister Filters?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 45298	From: sevenspringss@wmconnect.com	Date: 12/25/2009
Subject: Re: Season's Greetings
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 45299	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 12/25/2009
Subject: Re: Season's Greetings
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 45300	From: pam andress	Date: 12/25/2009
Subject: Re: Season's Greetings
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 45301	From: greyclouds99	Date: 12/25/2009
Subject: Death Announcement
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 45302	From: amejia1976	Date: 12/25/2009
Subject: Raising pH
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 45303	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 12/25/2009
Subject: Re: Raising pH
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 45304	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 12/25/2009
Subject: Re: Raising pH
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 45305	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 12/25/2009
Subject: Re: Raising pH
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 45306	From: sevenspringss@wmconnect.com	Date: 12/26/2009
Subject: Re: Raising pH
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 45307	From: sevenspringss@wmconnect.com	Date: 12/26/2009
Subject: Re: Death Announcement
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 45308	From: Dora Smith	Date: 12/26/2009
Subject: How long should I keep Nathaniel on how much medication?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 45309	From: sevenspringss@wmconnect.com	Date: 12/26/2009
Subject: Re: How long should I keep Nathaniel on how much medication?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 45310	From: Noura	Date: 12/27/2009
Subject: Dancing Tetra
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 45311	From: Noura	Date: 12/27/2009
Subject: Plant Maintenance
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 45312	From: sevenspringss@wmconnect.com	Date: 12/27/2009
Subject: Re: Dancing Tetra
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 45313	From: noura_taweel	Date: 12/27/2009
Subject: Re: Dancing Tetra
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 45314	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 12/27/2009
Subject: Re: Plant Maintenance
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 45315	From: Dora Smith	Date: 12/27/2009
Subject: Should I put Nathaniel out of his misery?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 45316	From: Noura	Date: 12/27/2009
Subject: Re: Plant Maintenance
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 45317	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 12/27/2009
Subject: Re: Should I put Nathaniel out of his misery?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 45318	From: Dr. Norman Ali Bassam Khalaf	Date: 12/27/2009
Subject: Bowmouth Guitarfish (Rhina ancylostoma) at Sharjah Aquarium, UAE
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 45319	From: sevenspringss@wmconnect.com	Date: 12/27/2009
Subject: Re: Dancing Tetra
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 45320	From: sevenspringss@wmconnect.com	Date: 12/27/2009
Subject: Re: Should I put Nathaniel out of his misery?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 45321	From: Noura	Date: 12/28/2009
Subject: Re: Dancing Tetra
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 45322	From: sevenspringss@wmconnect.com	Date: 12/28/2009
Subject: Re: Dancing Tetra
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 45323	From: William M	Date: 12/28/2009
Subject: Re: Should I put Nathaniel out of his misery?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 45324	From: William M	Date: 12/28/2009
Subject: Re: Dancing Tetra
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 45325	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 12/28/2009
Subject: Accidentally did a large water change
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 45326	From: Alex Mejia	Date: 12/28/2009
Subject: PWC
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 45327	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 12/28/2009
Subject: Re: PWC
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 45328	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 12/28/2009
Subject: Re: Accidentally did a large water change
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 45329	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 12/28/2009
Subject: Re: Accidentally did a large water change
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 45330	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 12/28/2009
Subject: Re: Accidentally did a large water change
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 45331	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 12/28/2009
Subject: Re: Accidentally did a large water change
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 45332	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 12/28/2009
Subject: Re: Accidentally did a large water change
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 45333	From: sevenspringss@wmconnect.com	Date: 12/29/2009
Subject: Re: PWC
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 45334	From: Noura	Date: 12/29/2009
Subject: Re: Dancing Tetra
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 45335	From: Noura	Date: 12/29/2009
Subject: Re: Plant Maintenance
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 45336	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 12/29/2009
Subject: Re: Accidentally did a large water change
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 45337	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 12/29/2009
Subject: Re: Plant Maintenance
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 45338	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 12/29/2009
Subject: Re: Plant Maintenance
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 45339	From: Donna Ransome	Date: 12/29/2009
Subject: Re: Plant Maintenance
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 45340	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 12/29/2009
Subject: Re: Accidentally did a large water change
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 45341	From: William M	Date: 12/29/2009
Subject: Re: Plant Maintenance
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 45342	From: Springer,James C.	Date: 12/29/2009
Subject: Re: PWC / Large water change
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 45343	From: Donna Ransome	Date: 12/29/2009
Subject: Re: PWC / Large water change
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 45344	From: bill 1433	Date: 12/29/2009
Subject: Re: PWC / Large water change
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 45345	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 12/29/2009
Subject: Re: PWC / Large water change
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 45346	From: Springer,James C.	Date: 12/29/2009
Subject: Re: PWC / Large water change
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 45347	From: bill 1433	Date: 12/29/2009
Subject: Re: PWC / Large water change
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 45348	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 12/29/2009
Subject: Re: PWC / Large water change
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 45349	From: bill 1433	Date: 12/29/2009
Subject: Re: PWC / Large water change
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 45350	From: sevenspringss@wmconnect.com	Date: 12/29/2009
Subject: Re: PWC / Large water change
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 45351	From: sevenspringss@wmconnect.com	Date: 12/29/2009
Subject: Re: PWC / Large water change
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 45352	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 12/29/2009
Subject: Re: PWC / Large water change
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 45353	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 12/29/2009
Subject: Re: PWC / Large water change
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 45354	From: Deenerz@aol.com	Date: 12/29/2009
Subject: Re: PWC / Large water change
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 45355	From: Noura	Date: 12/30/2009
Subject: Re: Plant Maintenance
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 45356	From: Noura	Date: 12/30/2009
Subject: Re: Plant Maintenance
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 45357	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 12/30/2009
Subject: Re: Plant Maintenance
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 45358	From: kuradi8	Date: 12/30/2009
Subject: More Snail Questions
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 45359	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 12/30/2009
Subject: Re: More Snail Questions
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 45360	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 12/30/2009
Subject: Re: More Snail Questions
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 45361	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 12/30/2009
Subject: Re: More Snail Questions
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 45362	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 12/30/2009
Subject: Re: More Snail Questions
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 45363	From: kuradi8	Date: 12/30/2009
Subject: Re: More Snail Questions
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 45364	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 12/30/2009
Subject: Re: More Snail Questions
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 45365	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 12/30/2009
Subject: Re: More Snail Questions
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 45366	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 12/30/2009
Subject: Re: More Snail Questions
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 45367	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 12/31/2009
Subject: Light Bulb of the Future?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 45368	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 12/31/2009
Subject: Re: Light Bulb of the Future?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 45369	From: Donna Ransome	Date: 12/31/2009
Subject: Re: Light Bulb of the Future?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 45370	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 12/31/2009
Subject: Re: Light Bulb of the Future?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 45371	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 12/31/2009
Subject: Re: Light Bulb of the Future?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 45372	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 12/31/2009
Subject: Tiger lotus
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 45373	From: harry perry	Date: 12/31/2009
Subject: Re: Tiger lotus Amber
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 45374	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 12/31/2009
Subject: Re: Tiger lotus Amber
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 45375	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 12/31/2009
Subject: Re: Light Bulb of the Future?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 45376	From: pam andress	Date: 12/31/2009
Subject: Re: Light Bulb of the Future?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 45377	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 12/31/2009
Subject: Re: Light Bulb of the Future?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 45378	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 12/31/2009
Subject: Sharing a couple cute fish pictures
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 45379	From: pam andress	Date: 12/31/2009
Subject: Re: Sharing a couple cute fish pictures
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 45380	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 12/31/2009
Subject: Re: Sharing a couple cute fish pictures
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 45381	From: William M	Date: 12/31/2009
Subject: Re: Sharing a couple cute fish pictures

---

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 40628	From: sandi turner	Date: 6/1/2009
Subject: Re: Now about DIY easy tank stands (was: Angels and floating plants)

I found that a really good old dresser fits my 55 gallon tank perfectly and the drawers are excellent for storing the extra aquarium equiptment. I got mine off of free cycle so the only cost was the gas to pick it up!!! :)   Sandi --- On Sun, 5/31/09, Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@...> wrote: From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@...> Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Now about DIY easy tank stands (was: Angels and floating plants) To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Date: Sunday, May 31, 2009, 10:45 PM Well... that's certainly one of the strongest and it's inexpensive but it's not as quick as some cinder blocks and pre-cut shelving. One would have to have a couple of power tools or at least be able to use hand tools to build the stand that I have on my blog so if one is not a handyperson, for 55G and smaller tanks, the cinder block and shelving works fine... as long as one doesn't mind the cinder block decor... but once again, them holes work perfect for a wine/booze rack. You know.. with cinder blocks and duct tape, one could probably build or repair just about anything. LOL Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com [mailto:AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com] On Behalf Of bill1433 Sent: Sunday, May 31, 2009 8:36 PM To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Angels and floating plants Len, Sorry to disagree with you here, but for my money "the very best", quickest, and certainly the strongest, is the one you suggested from you, built by you, that is on your blog.   Anything that can disturb that stand must be at least 12 feet tall, have 6 arms and weigh a ton!  That is an aquarium stand, Mr.---no question about it! <big grin>   Bill --- On Sun, 5/31/09, Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@gmail. com> wrote: > From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@gmail. com> > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Angels and floating plants > To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com > Date: Sunday, May 31, 2009, 9:11 PM > You know the quickest tank stand that > one could make is the old college dorm "shelves"... cinder blocks and > oak 1" x 12"'s. > Depending on how you stack > the cinder blocks, like if you put the holes facing forward, you even > have a wine rack along with the shelves... OK.. maybe not wine back in > the college days but Rum, JD, Vodka, Tequila, Sambuca, etc. ;-) The > only expense was the oak shelving and the booze.  The cinder blocks > mysteriously appeared from a nearby construction site. ;-)  Pine > shelving would work for smaller tanks and also if you put a third > column in the middle to support the pine shelves.  You can usually buy > 1" x 12" shelves, pre-cut, in either oak or pine at your local big-box > home improvement store. > They also sell cinder > blocks if you do not wish to have a scavenger hunt to "find" some. ;-) > > And if you really want to get fancy, you can go with laminated > shelving and then spray paint the cinder blocks to match/contrast but > then you're getting out of the budget of the college dorm "shelves" > experience. > ;-) > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com (Links to any articles > referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically > under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com > [mailto:AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com] > On > Behalf Of Amber Berglund > Sent: Sunday, May 31, 2009 7:29 PM > To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Angels and floating plants > > I can also add a point of view from having 2 angel's that > keep breeding. > They are VERY secure in their fish tank, in fact they're so > secure they'll > attack anything that appears to be an intruder ;) Including > hands and arms > ;) LOL. > I don't see them as needing floating plants to feel more > secure and happy, > but if you plan to breed them make sure you have only your > 2 angel's in one > tank or the rest of your tank is going to hate you ;) My > angel's rule the > 125 gallon tank they're in with other fish right now, until > I get the tank > stand built I can't move them over to their own tank, they > keep all the fish > on one side of the tank when they lay eggs. > I would almost suggest just keeping a single angel if > you're going to keep > the angel fish with other fish too, otherwise you run the > chances of getting > an aggressive pair like I do ;) > > Amber > > Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > > > > > > Live plants, I'm presuming? > > > > Almost all fish like plants in their tanks except for > certain species > > (many African cichlids, for example) that prefer > rocks. > > > > Yes, live plants can change the water chemistry but > usually in a good > > way if the plants are healthy. Plants will remove CO2 > from the water > > when the lights are on and put out O2. When removing > the CO2, this > > will raise the pH a little.. but this type of change > in pH (from CO2 > > changes) is not dangerous to fish like a pH spike or > crash caused by > > other chemicals. God created fish to handle pH changes > related to CO2 > > levels related to photosynthesis but He didn't foresee > us humans > > dumping chemicals in the water, when He gave us free > will. > > > > Plants will also use up more of the nutrients in the > water since they > > are a life form and need many of the same nutrients as > fish. They will > > also use up phosphates and nitrates as a food source. > This is good > > since fish put out a lot of ammonia which is converted > to nitrates via > > the nitrogen cycle and high levels of nitrates are not > good for the > > fish. > > > > Floating plants like Anacharis, Hornwort, etc., are > good as they'll > > provide shade for fish that do not like the bright > lights, they'll > > suck up nitrates and other nutrients from the water, > they'll suck up > > CO2 and put out O2 (and as floaters, they'll also get > even more light > > and more CO2 from the air so they'll grow even faster > and suck up even > > more of the nutrients/pollutant s from the water. > > > > We also do weekly PWC's (partial water changes - 25%) > to remove excess > > nitrates and pollution and replace the dirty water > with fresh water. > > You can do more frequent PWC's, even daily if you like > but do not go > > much more than a week in between your PWC's, filter > and tank > > maintenance or the water can start to get pretty > polluted. > > > > If you want to learn a lot more about the basics of > fish keeping, I > > have links to two free online tutorials that will walk > you through all > > of these things just like you were reading a well > written book. I also > > have an free online test that you can take to see how > well you are > > retaining all of your new information. Go to my blog, > on the "A to Z > > of Fish Keeping" page and you'll find these things > right near the top > > of that article. > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com > > <http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com> (Links > to any articles referenced in > > above reply are listed on the right side, > alphabetically under Labels > > and also under Archives by Year, Month) > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com > > <mailto:AquaticLife %40yahoogroups. com> > > [mailto:AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com > > <mailto:AquaticLife %40yahoogroups. com>] On > Behalf Of Steve Biondi > > Sent: Saturday, May 30, 2009 5:10 PM > > To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com > <mailto:AquaticLife %40yahoogroups. com> > > Subject: [AquaticLife] Angels and floating plants > > > > Hi, > > > > Does anyone know if Angels do better with floating > plants as a cover? > > I just > > added some floaters and was curios if it makes any > difference to them > > or to the chemistry of the tank. > > > > Thanks, Steve [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 40629	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 6/1/2009
Subject: Re: Now about DIY easy tank stands (was: Angels and floating plants)

Yes, certain STURDY furniture is OK to use for smaller tanks but a 55G tank will end up weighing around 500 pounds and in the U.S., furniture manufacturers have guidelines where the furniture only HAS to be built to support the weight it was designed to hold so a dresser does not have to be constructed to hold 500 pounds (unless it was made in the old days where maybe an assortment of cast iron chastity belts were found in the lingerie draws of many dressers.. LOL). There certainly are some pieces of furniture made to much higher standards and an "old" piece of furniture would be more likely to be built more sturdy than some modern pieces. Just make sure the furniture is VERY STURDY and you'd be willing to get up on it with a partner and do some boogeying (dancing) and if it holds up to that, then it should be OK for most smaller tanks. I've used smaller tables for 10G to 29G tanks but for BIG tanks (55G and up), it's probably better to make sure you have something designed/built to handle that kind of weight. The other big thing is most furniture isn't designed to have something SO top heavy on it such as an aquarium so that could also pose a problem. It sounds like your "good old dresser" was one of those pieces built to last many lifetimes so you should be good to go! Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of sandi turner Sent: Monday, June 01, 2009 4:22 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Now about DIY easy tank stands (was: Angels and floating plants) I found that a really good old dresser fits my 55 gallon tank perfectly and the drawers are excellent for storing the extra aquarium equiptment. I got mine off of free cycle so the only cost was the gas to pick it up!!! :)   Sandi --- On Sun, 5/31/09, Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@...> wrote: From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@...> Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Now about DIY easy tank stands (was: Angels and floating plants) To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Date: Sunday, May 31, 2009, 10:45 PM Well... that's certainly one of the strongest and it's inexpensive but it's not as quick as some cinder blocks and pre-cut shelving. One would have to have a couple of power tools or at least be able to use hand tools to build the stand that I have on my blog so if one is not a handyperson, for 55G and smaller tanks, the cinder block and shelving works fine... as long as one doesn't mind the cinder block decor... but once again, them holes work perfect for a wine/booze rack. You know.. with cinder blocks and duct tape, one could probably build or repair just about anything. LOL Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com [mailto:AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com] On Behalf Of bill1433 Sent: Sunday, May 31, 2009 8:36 PM To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Angels and floating plants Len, Sorry to disagree with you here, but for my money "the very best", quickest, and certainly the strongest, is the one you suggested from you, built by you, that is on your blog.   Anything that can disturb that stand must be at least 12 feet tall, have 6 arms and weigh a ton!  That is an aquarium stand, Mr.---no question about it! <big grin>   Bill --- On Sun, 5/31/09, Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@gmail. com> wrote: > From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@gmail. com> > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Angels and floating plants > To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com > Date: Sunday, May 31, 2009, 9:11 PM > You know the quickest tank stand that > one could make is the old college dorm "shelves"... cinder blocks and > oak 1" x 12"'s. > Depending on how you stack > the cinder blocks, like if you put the holes facing forward, you even > have a wine rack along with the shelves... OK.. maybe not wine back in > the college days but Rum, JD, Vodka, Tequila, Sambuca, etc. ;-) The > only expense was the oak shelving and the booze.  The cinder blocks > mysteriously appeared from a nearby construction site. ;-)  Pine > shelving would work for smaller tanks and also if you put a third > column in the middle to support the pine shelves.  You can usually buy > 1" x 12" shelves, pre-cut, in either oak or pine at your local big-box > home improvement store. > They also sell cinder > blocks if you do not wish to have a scavenger hunt to "find" some. ;-) > > And if you really want to get fancy, you can go with laminated > shelving and then spray paint the cinder blocks to match/contrast but > then you're getting out of the budget of the college dorm "shelves" > experience. > ;-) > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com (Links to any articles > referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically > under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com > [mailto:AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com] On Behalf Of Amber Berglund > Sent: Sunday, May 31, 2009 7:29 PM > To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Angels and floating plants > > I can also add a point of view from having 2 angel's that keep > breeding. > They are VERY secure in their fish tank, in fact they're so secure > they'll attack anything that appears to be an intruder ;) Including > hands and arms > ;) LOL. > I don't see them as needing floating plants to feel more secure and > happy, but if you plan to breed them make sure you have only your > 2 angel's in one > tank or the rest of your tank is going to hate you ;) My angel's rule > the > 125 gallon tank they're in with other fish right now, until I get the > tank stand built I can't move them over to their own tank, they keep > all the fish on one side of the tank when they lay eggs. > I would almost suggest just keeping a single angel if you're going to > keep the angel fish with other fish too, otherwise you run the chances > of getting an aggressive pair like I do ;) > > Amber > > Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > > > > > > Live plants, I'm presuming? > > > > Almost all fish like plants in their tanks except for > certain species > > (many African cichlids, for example) that prefer > rocks. > > > > Yes, live plants can change the water chemistry but > usually in a good > > way if the plants are healthy. Plants will remove CO2 > from the water > > when the lights are on and put out O2. When removing > the CO2, this > > will raise the pH a little.. but this type of change > in pH (from CO2 > > changes) is not dangerous to fish like a pH spike or > crash caused by > > other chemicals. God created fish to handle pH changes > related to CO2 > > levels related to photosynthesis but He didn't foresee > us humans > > dumping chemicals in the water, when He gave us free > will. > > > > Plants will also use up more of the nutrients in the > water since they > > are a life form and need many of the same nutrients as > fish. They will > > also use up phosphates and nitrates as a food source. > This is good > > since fish put out a lot of ammonia which is converted > to nitrates via > > the nitrogen cycle and high levels of nitrates are not > good for the > > fish. > > > > Floating plants like Anacharis, Hornwort, etc., are > good as they'll > > provide shade for fish that do not like the bright > lights, they'll > > suck up nitrates and other nutrients from the water, > they'll suck up > > CO2 and put out O2 (and as floaters, they'll also get > even more light > > and more CO2 from the air so they'll grow even faster > and suck up even > > more of the nutrients/pollutant s from the water. > > > > We also do weekly PWC's (partial water changes - 25%) > to remove excess > > nitrates and pollution and replace the dirty water > with fresh water. > > You can do more frequent PWC's, even daily if you like > but do not go > > much more than a week in between your PWC's, filter > and tank > > maintenance or the water can start to get pretty > polluted. > > > > If you want to learn a lot more about the basics of > fish keeping, I > > have links to two free online tutorials that will walk > you through all > > of these things just like you were reading a well > written book. I also > > have an free online test that you can take to see how > well you are > > retaining all of your new information. Go to my blog, > on the "A to Z > > of Fish Keeping" page and you'll find these things > right near the top > > of that article. > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com <http://GoldLenny. > > blogspot. com> (Links > to any articles referenced in > > above reply are listed on the right side, > alphabetically under Labels > > and also under Archives by Year, Month) > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com > > <mailto:AquaticLife %40yahoogroups. com> [mailto:AquaticLife@ > > yahoogroups. com <mailto:AquaticLife %40yahoogroups. com>] On > Behalf Of Steve Biondi > > Sent: Saturday, May 30, 2009 5:10 PM > > To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com > <mailto:AquaticLife %40yahoogroups. com> > > Subject: [AquaticLife] Angels and floating plants > > > > Hi, > > > > Does anyone know if Angels do better with floating > plants as a cover? > > I just > > added some floaters and was curios if it makes any > difference to them > > or to the chemistry of the tank. > > > > Thanks, Steve

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 40630	From: amsterbaum	Date: 6/1/2009
Subject: tank disinfection

Unfortunately, our last remaining platy died. My daughter would like to try fishkeeping again, but we don't know exactly what killed the fish, so we would like to disinfect the tank and accessories. Advice?

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 40631	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 6/1/2009
Subject: Re: tank disinfection

Tell us much more about the tank, set-up and history... or if you have already provided this info in a recent thread, give us a link to the thread so we can review what happened. Why do you think the platy died? How many other fish over what time frame have died and from what? Where did you buy these fish? There may be no need to disinfect the tank and you could be making more work for yourself. For now, you want to leave the detritus in the gravel and keep the filters running so the detritus will break down and provide ammonia to keep your nitrogen cycle going so you do not have to start over from scratch. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of amsterbaum Sent: Monday, June 01, 2009 12:17 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] tank disinfection Unfortunately, our last remaining platy died. My daughter would like to try fishkeeping again, but we don't know exactly what killed the fish, so we would like to disinfect the tank and accessories. Advice?

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 40632	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 6/1/2009
Subject: Re: tank disinfection

Also, do NOT change out the filter right now either. Just leave things be for now, with the tank's filter running while we figure out the next step. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of amsterbaum Sent: Monday, June 01, 2009 12:17 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] tank disinfection Unfortunately, our last remaining platy died. My daughter would like to try fishkeeping again, but we don't know exactly what killed the fish, so we would like to disinfect the tank and accessories. Advice?

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 40633	From: sandi turner	Date: 6/1/2009
Subject: Re: Now about DIY easy tank stands (was: Angels and floating plants)

It is an extremely sturdy older wood dresser. I will definately make sure it will hold the weight beforeI set it up. That won't happen till august though as we will be moving then and I don't want to get it all set and ready to go just to have to take it down again!!  Thanks for the advise!   Sandi --- On Mon, 6/1/09, Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@...> wrote: From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@...> Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Now about DIY easy tank stands (was: Angels and floating plants) To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Date: Monday, June 1, 2009, 11:10 AM Yes, certain STURDY furniture is OK to use for smaller tanks but a 55G tank will end up weighing around 500 pounds and in the U.S., furniture manufacturers have guidelines where the furniture only HAS to be built to support the weight it was designed to hold so a dresser does not have to be constructed to hold 500 pounds (unless it was made in the old days where maybe an assortment of cast iron chastity belts were found in the lingerie draws of many dressers.. LOL). There certainly are some pieces of furniture made to much higher standards and an "old" piece of furniture would be more likely to be built more sturdy than some modern pieces. Just make sure the furniture is VERY STURDY and you'd be willing to get up on it with a partner and do some boogeying (dancing) and if it holds up to that, then it should be OK for most smaller tanks. I've used smaller tables for 10G to 29G tanks but for BIG tanks (55G and up), it's probably better to make sure you have something designed/built to handle that kind of weight. The other big thing is most furniture isn't designed to have something SO top heavy on it such as an aquarium so that could also pose a problem. It sounds like your "good old dresser" was one of those pieces built to last many lifetimes so you should be good to go! Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com [mailto:AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com] On Behalf Of sandi turner Sent: Monday, June 01, 2009 4:22 AM To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Now about DIY easy tank stands (was: Angels and floating plants) I found that a really good old dresser fits my 55 gallon tank perfectly and the drawers are excellent for storing the extra aquarium equiptment. I got mine off of free cycle so the only cost was the gas to pick it up!!! :)   Sandi --- On Sun, 5/31/09, Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@gmail. com> wrote: From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@gmail. com> Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Now about DIY easy tank stands (was: Angels and floating plants) To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com Date: Sunday, May 31, 2009, 10:45 PM Well... that's certainly one of the strongest and it's inexpensive but it's not as quick as some cinder blocks and pre-cut shelving. One would have to have a couple of power tools or at least be able to use hand tools to build the stand that I have on my blog so if one is not a handyperson, for 55G and smaller tanks, the cinder block and shelving works fine... as long as one doesn't mind the cinder block decor... but once again, them holes work perfect for a wine/booze rack. You know.. with cinder blocks and duct tape, one could probably build or repair just about anything. LOL Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com [mailto:AquaticLife @ yahoogroups. com] On Behalf Of bill1433 Sent: Sunday, May 31, 2009 8:36 PM To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Angels and floating plants Len, Sorry to disagree with you here, but for my money "the very best", quickest, and certainly the strongest, is the one you suggested from you, built by you, that is on your blog.   Anything that can disturb that stand must be at least 12 feet tall, have 6 arms and weigh a ton!  That is an aquarium stand, Mr.---no question about it! <big grin>   Bill --- On Sun, 5/31/09, Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@gmail. com> wrote: > From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@gmail. com> > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Angels and floating plants > To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com > Date: Sunday, May 31, 2009, 9:11 PM > You know the quickest tank stand that > one could make is the old college dorm "shelves"... cinder blocks and > oak 1" x 12"'s. > Depending on how you stack > the cinder blocks, like if you put the holes facing forward, you even > have a wine rack along with the shelves... OK.. maybe not wine back in > the college days but Rum, JD, Vodka, Tequila, Sambuca, etc. ;-) The > only expense was the oak shelving and the booze.  The cinder blocks > mysteriously appeared from a nearby construction site. ;-)  Pine > shelving would work for smaller tanks and also if you put a third > column in the middle to support the pine shelves.  You can usually buy > 1" x 12" shelves, pre-cut, in either oak or pine at your local big-box > home improvement store. > They also sell cinder > blocks if you do not wish to have a scavenger hunt to "find" some. ;-) > > And if you really want to get fancy, you can go with laminated > shelving and then spray paint the cinder blocks to match/contrast but > then you're getting out of the budget of the college dorm "shelves" > experience. > ;-) > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com (Links to any articles > referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically > under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com > [mailto:AquaticLife @ yahoogroups. com] On Behalf Of Amber Berglund > Sent: Sunday, May 31, 2009 7:29 PM > To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Angels and floating plants > > I can also add a point of view from having 2 angel's that keep > breeding. > They are VERY secure in their fish tank, in fact they're so secure > they'll attack anything that appears to be an intruder ;) Including > hands and arms > ;) LOL. > I don't see them as needing floating plants to feel more secure and > happy, but if you plan to breed them make sure you have only your > 2 angel's in one > tank or the rest of your tank is going to hate you ;) My angel's rule > the > 125 gallon tank they're in with other fish right now, until I get the > tank stand built I can't move them over to their own tank, they keep > all the fish on one side of the tank when they lay eggs. > I would almost suggest just keeping a single angel if you're going to > keep the angel fish with other fish too, otherwise you run the chances > of getting an aggressive pair like I do ;) > > Amber > > Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > > > > > > Live plants, I'm presuming? > > > > Almost all fish like plants in their tanks except for > certain species > > (many African cichlids, for example) that prefer > rocks. > > > > Yes, live plants can change the water chemistry but > usually in a good > > way if the plants are healthy. Plants will remove CO2 > from the water > > when the lights are on and put out O2. When removing > the CO2, this > > will raise the pH a little.. but this type of change > in pH (from CO2 > > changes) is not dangerous to fish like a pH spike or > crash caused by > > other chemicals. God created fish to handle pH changes > related to CO2 > > levels related to photosynthesis but He didn't foresee > us humans > > dumping chemicals in the water, when He gave us free > will. > > > > Plants will also use up more of the nutrients in the > water since they > > are a life form and need many of the same nutrients as > fish. They will > > also use up phosphates and nitrates as a food source. > This is good > > since fish put out a lot of ammonia which is converted > to nitrates via > > the nitrogen cycle and high levels of nitrates are not > good for the > > fish. > > > > Floating plants like Anacharis, Hornwort, etc., are > good as they'll > > provide shade for fish that do not like the bright > lights, they'll > > suck up nitrates and other nutrients from the water, > they'll suck up > > CO2 and put out O2 (and as floaters, they'll also get > even more light > > and more CO2 from the air so they'll grow even faster > and suck up even > > more of the nutrients/pollutant s from the water. > > > > We also do weekly PWC's (partial water changes - 25%) > to remove excess > > nitrates and pollution and replace the dirty water > with fresh water. > > You can do more frequent PWC's, even daily if you like > but do not go > > much more than a week in between your PWC's, filter > and tank > > maintenance or the water can start to get pretty > polluted. > > > > If you want to learn a lot more about the basics of > fish keeping, I > > have links to two free online tutorials that will walk > you through all > > of these things just like you were reading a well > written book. I also > > have an free online test that you can take to see how > well you are > > retaining all of your new information. Go to my blog, > on the "A to Z > > of Fish Keeping" page and you'll find these things > right near the top > > of that article. > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com <http://GoldLenny. > > blogspot. com> (Links > to any articles referenced in > > above reply are listed on the right side, > alphabetically under Labels > > and also under Archives by Year, Month) > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com > > <mailto:AquaticLife %40yahoogroups. com> [mailto:AquaticLife @ > > yahoogroups. com <mailto:AquaticLife %40yahoogroups. com>] On > Behalf Of Steve Biondi > > Sent: Saturday, May 30, 2009 5:10 PM > > To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com > <mailto:AquaticLife %40yahoogroups. com> > > Subject: [AquaticLife] Angels and floating plants > > > > Hi, > > > > Does anyone know if Angels do better with floating > plants as a cover? > > I just > > added some floaters and was curios if it makes any > difference to them > > or to the chemistry of the tank. > > > > Thanks, Steve [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 40634	From: bill1433	Date: 6/1/2009
Subject: Re: Now about DIY easy tank stands (was: Angels and floating plants)

Just as a safety net I would get about 3 people to sit on the dresser all at once to be sure its top plus the legs and sides will take the weight. 500 hundred pounds of water on your floors is a real mess unless you know someone who is really into carpet cleaning! Bill --- On Mon, 6/1/09, sandi turner <skwirrley2@...> wrote: > From: sandi turner <skwirrley2@...> > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Now about DIY easy tank stands (was: Angels and floating plants) > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Date: Monday, June 1, 2009, 2:06 PM > It is an extremely sturdy older wood > dresser. I will definately make sure it will hold the weight > beforeI set it up. That won't happen till august though as > we will be moving then and I don't want to get it all set > and ready to go just to have to take it down again!!  > Thanks for the advise! >   > Sandi > > --- On Mon, 6/1/09, Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@...> > wrote: > > > From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@...> > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Now about DIY easy tank stands > (was: Angels and floating plants) > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Date: Monday, June 1, 2009, 11:10 AM > > > > > > > > > Yes, certain STURDY furniture is OK to use for smaller > tanks but a 55G tank > will end up weighing around 500 pounds and in the U.S., > furniture > manufacturers have guidelines where the furniture only HAS > to be built to > support the weight it was designed to hold so a dresser > does not have to be > constructed to hold 500 pounds (unless it was made in the > old days where > maybe an assortment of cast iron chastity belts were found > in the lingerie > draws of many dressers.. LOL). There certainly are some > pieces of furniture > made to much higher standards and an "old" piece of > furniture would be more > likely to be built more sturdy than some modern pieces. > Just make sure the > furniture is VERY STURDY and you'd be willing to get up on > it with a partner > and do some boogeying (dancing) and if it holds up to that, > then it should > be OK for most smaller tanks. I've used smaller tables for > 10G to 29G tanks > but for BIG tanks (55G and up), it's probably better to > make sure you have > something designed/built to handle that kind of weight. The > other big thing > is most furniture isn't designed to have something SO top > heavy on it such > as an aquarium so that could also pose a problem. It sounds > like your "good > old dresser" was one of those pieces built to last many > lifetimes so you > should be good to go! > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com > (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed > on the right > side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives > by Year, Month) > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com [mailto:AquaticLife@ > yahoogroups. com] On > Behalf Of sandi turner > Sent: Monday, June 01, 2009 4:22 AM > To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Now about DIY easy tank stands > (was: Angels and > floating plants) > > I found that a really good old dresser fits my 55 gallon > tank perfectly and > the drawers are excellent for storing the extra aquarium > equiptment. I got > mine off of free cycle so the only cost was the gas to pick > it up!!! :) >   > Sandi > > --- On Sun, 5/31/09, Lenny V. aka GoldLenny > <GoldLenny@gmail. com> wrote: > > From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@gmail. com> > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Now about DIY easy tank stands > (was: Angels and > floating plants) > To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com > Date: Sunday, May 31, 2009, 10:45 PM > > Well... that's certainly one of the strongest and it's > inexpensive but it's > not as quick as some cinder blocks and pre-cut shelving. > One would have to > have a couple of power tools or at least be able to use > hand tools to build > the stand that I have on my blog so if one is not a > handyperson, for 55G and > smaller tanks, the cinder block and shelving works fine... > as long as one > doesn't mind the cinder block decor... but once again, them > holes work > perfect for a wine/booze rack. > > You know.. with cinder blocks and duct tape, one could > probably build or > repair just about anything. LOL > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com (Links to any articles > referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, > alphabetically under > Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com [mailto:AquaticLife @ > yahoogroups. com] > On Behalf Of bill1433 > Sent: Sunday, May 31, 2009 8:36 PM > To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Angels and floating plants > > Len, > > Sorry to disagree with you here, but for my money "the very > best", quickest, > and certainly the strongest, is the one you suggested from > you, built by > you, that is on your blog. >   > Anything that can disturb that stand must be at least 12 > feet tall, have 6 > arms and weigh a ton!  That is an aquarium stand, Mr.---no > question about > it! <big grin> >   > Bill > > --- On Sun, 5/31/09, Lenny V. aka GoldLenny > <GoldLenny@gmail. com> wrote: > > > From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@gmail. > com> > > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Angels and floating plants > > To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com > > Date: Sunday, May 31, 2009, 9:11 PM > > You know the quickest tank stand that > > one could make is the old college dorm "shelves"... > cinder blocks and > > oak 1" x 12"'s. > > Depending on how you stack > > the cinder blocks, like if you put the holes facing > forward, you even > > have a wine rack along with the shelves... OK.. maybe > not wine back in > > the college days but Rum, JD, Vodka, Tequila, Sambuca, > etc. ;-) The > > only expense was the oak shelving and the booze.  The > cinder blocks > > mysteriously appeared from a nearby construction site. > ;-)  Pine > > shelving would work for smaller tanks and also if you > put a third > > column in the middle to support the pine shelves.  > You can usually buy > > 1" x 12" shelves, pre-cut, in either oak or pine at > your local big-box > > home improvement store. > > They also sell cinder > > blocks if you do not wish to have a scavenger hunt to > "find" some. ;-) > > > > And if you really want to get fancy, you can go with > laminated > > shelving and then spray paint the cinder blocks to > match/contrast but > > then you're getting out of the budget of the college > dorm "shelves" > > experience. > > ;-) > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com (Links to any articles > > > referenced in above reply are listed on the right > side, alphabetically > > under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com > > [mailto:AquaticLife @ yahoogroups. com] On Behalf Of > Amber Berglund > > Sent: Sunday, May 31, 2009 7:29 PM > > To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Angels and floating plants > > > > I can also add a point of view from having 2 angel's > that keep > > breeding. > > They are VERY secure in their fish tank, in fact > they're so secure > > they'll attack anything that appears to be an intruder > ;) Including > > hands and arms > > ;) LOL. > > I don't see them as needing floating plants to feel > more secure and > > happy, but if you plan to breed them make sure you > have only your > > 2 angel's in one > > tank or the rest of your tank is going to hate you ;) > My angel's rule > > the > > 125 gallon tank they're in with other fish right now, > until I get the > > tank stand built I can't move them over to their own > tank, they keep > > all the fish on one side of the tank when they lay > eggs. > > I would almost suggest just keeping a single angel if > you're going to > > keep the angel fish with other fish too, otherwise you > run the chances > > of getting an aggressive pair like I do ;) > > > > Amber > > > > Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > > > > > > > > > Live plants, I'm presuming? > > > > > > Almost all fish like plants in their tanks except > for > > certain species > > > (many African cichlids, for example) that prefer > > rocks. > > > > > > Yes, live plants can change the water chemistry > but > > usually in a good > > > way if the plants are healthy. Plants will remove > CO2 > > from the water > > > when the lights are on and put out O2. When > removing > > the CO2, this > > > will raise the pH a little.. but this type of > change > > in pH (from CO2 > > > changes) is not dangerous to fish like a pH spike > or > > crash caused by > > > other chemicals. God created fish to handle pH > changes > > related to CO2 > > > levels related to photosynthesis but He didn't > foresee > > us humans > > > dumping chemicals in the water, when He gave us > free > > will. > > > > > > Plants will also use up more of the nutrients in > the > > water since they > > > are a life form and need many of the same > nutrients as > > fish. They will > > > also use up phosphates and nitrates as a food > source. > > This is good > > > since fish put out a lot of ammonia which is > converted > > to nitrates via > > > the nitrogen cycle and high levels of nitrates > are not > > good for the > > > fish. > > > > > > Floating plants like Anacharis, Hornwort, etc., > are > > good as they'll > > > provide shade for fish that do not like the > bright > > lights, they'll > > > suck up nitrates and other nutrients from the > water, > > they'll suck up > > > CO2 and put out O2 (and as floaters, they'll also > get > > even more light > > > and more CO2 from the air so they'll grow even > faster > > and suck up even > > > more of the nutrients/pollutant s from the > water. > > > > > > We also do weekly PWC's (partial water changes - > 25%) > > to remove excess > > > nitrates and pollution and replace the dirty > water > > with fresh water. > > > You can do more frequent PWC's, even daily if you > like > > but do not go > > > much more than a week in between your PWC's, > filter > > and tank > > > maintenance or the water can start to get pretty > > polluted. > > > > > > If you want to learn a lot more about the basics > of > > fish keeping, I > > > have links to two free online tutorials that will > walk > > you through all > > > of these things just like you were reading a > well > > written book. I also > > > have an free online test that you can take to see > how > > well you are > > > retaining all of your new information. Go to my > blog, > > on the "A to Z > > > of Fish Keeping" page and you'll find these > things > > right near the top > > > of that article. > > > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com <http://GoldLenny. > > > > blogspot. com> (Links > > to any articles referenced in > > > above reply are listed on the right side, > > alphabetically under Labels > > > and also under Archives by Year, Month) > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > From: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com > > > <mailto:AquaticLife %40yahoogroups. com> > [mailto:AquaticLife @ > > > yahoogroups. com <mailto:AquaticLife > %40yahoogroups. com>] On > > Behalf Of Steve Biondi > > > Sent: Saturday, May 30, 2009 5:10 PM > > > To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com > > <mailto:AquaticLife %40yahoogroups. com> > > > Subject: [AquaticLife] Angels and floating > plants > > > > > > Hi, > > > > > > Does anyone know if Angels do better with > floating > > plants as a cover? > > > I just > > > added some floaters and was curios if it makes > any > > difference to them > > > or to the chemistry of the tank. > > > > > > Thanks, Steve > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >       > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > ------------------------------------ > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when > replying, Thank You. > ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> > ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> > PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is > NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of > the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new > subject (was re: old subject)" <- > <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. > , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. > > If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of > unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by > clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the home page.  > > Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com > to receive the digest, which includes up to 25 posts at a > time in a single email > > Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com > for the No E-Mail option where you will still be able to > read messages on the group and post replies. > > Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com > to receive individual e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links > > >     mailto:AquaticLife-fullfeatured@yahoogroups.com > > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 40635	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 6/1/2009
Subject: Re: Now about DIY easy tank stands (was: Angels and floating plants)

BTW... when you and your partner get up on the dresser and do some boogeying, take some pics and post them to the group.... maybe in a file folder called DIY Tank Stand Tester. LOL Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of sandi turner Sent: Monday, June 01, 2009 1:07 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Now about DIY easy tank stands (was: Angels and floating plants) It is an extremely sturdy older wood dresser. I will definately make sure it will hold the weight beforeI set it up. That won't happen till august though as we will be moving then and I don't want to get it all set and ready to go just to have to take it down again!!  Thanks for the advise!   Sandi --- On Mon, 6/1/09, Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@...> wrote: From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@...> Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Now about DIY easy tank stands (was: Angels and floating plants) To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Date: Monday, June 1, 2009, 11:10 AM Yes, certain STURDY furniture is OK to use for smaller tanks but a 55G tank will end up weighing around 500 pounds and in the U.S., furniture manufacturers have guidelines where the furniture only HAS to be built to support the weight it was designed to hold so a dresser does not have to be constructed to hold 500 pounds (unless it was made in the old days where maybe an assortment of cast iron chastity belts were found in the lingerie draws of many dressers.. LOL). There certainly are some pieces of furniture made to much higher standards and an "old" piece of furniture would be more likely to be built more sturdy than some modern pieces. Just make sure the furniture is VERY STURDY and you'd be willing to get up on it with a partner and do some boogeying (dancing) and if it holds up to that, then it should be OK for most smaller tanks. I've used smaller tables for 10G to 29G tanks but for BIG tanks (55G and up), it's probably better to make sure you have something designed/built to handle that kind of weight. The other big thing is most furniture isn't designed to have something SO top heavy on it such as an aquarium so that could also pose a problem. It sounds like your "good old dresser" was one of those pieces built to last many lifetimes so you should be good to go! Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com [mailto:AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com] On Behalf Of sandi turner Sent: Monday, June 01, 2009 4:22 AM To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Now about DIY easy tank stands (was: Angels and floating plants) I found that a really good old dresser fits my 55 gallon tank perfectly and the drawers are excellent for storing the extra aquarium equiptment. I got mine off of free cycle so the only cost was the gas to pick it up!!! :)   Sandi --- On Sun, 5/31/09, Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@gmail. com> wrote: From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@gmail. com> Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Now about DIY easy tank stands (was: Angels and floating plants) To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com Date: Sunday, May 31, 2009, 10:45 PM Well... that's certainly one of the strongest and it's inexpensive but it's not as quick as some cinder blocks and pre-cut shelving. One would have to have a couple of power tools or at least be able to use hand tools to build the stand that I have on my blog so if one is not a handyperson, for 55G and smaller tanks, the cinder block and shelving works fine... as long as one doesn't mind the cinder block decor... but once again, them holes work perfect for a wine/booze rack. You know.. with cinder blocks and duct tape, one could probably build or repair just about anything. LOL Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com [mailto:AquaticLife @ yahoogroups. com] On Behalf Of bill1433 Sent: Sunday, May 31, 2009 8:36 PM To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Angels and floating plants Len, Sorry to disagree with you here, but for my money "the very best", quickest, and certainly the strongest, is the one you suggested from you, built by you, that is on your blog.   Anything that can disturb that stand must be at least 12 feet tall, have 6 arms and weigh a ton!  That is an aquarium stand, Mr.---no question about it! <big grin>   Bill --- On Sun, 5/31/09, Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@gmail. com> wrote: > From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@gmail. com> > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Angels and floating plants > To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com > Date: Sunday, May 31, 2009, 9:11 PM > You know the quickest tank stand that > one could make is the old college dorm "shelves"... cinder blocks and > oak 1" x 12"'s. > Depending on how you stack > the cinder blocks, like if you put the holes facing forward, you even > have a wine rack along with the shelves... OK.. maybe not wine back in > the college days but Rum, JD, Vodka, Tequila, Sambuca, etc. ;-) The > only expense was the oak shelving and the booze.  The cinder blocks > mysteriously appeared from a nearby construction site. ;-)  Pine > shelving would work for smaller tanks and also if you put a third > column in the middle to support the pine shelves.  You can usually buy > 1" x 12" shelves, pre-cut, in either oak or pine at your local big-box > home improvement store. > They also sell cinder > blocks if you do not wish to have a scavenger hunt to "find" some. ;-) > > And if you really want to get fancy, you can go with laminated > shelving and then spray paint the cinder blocks to match/contrast but > then you're getting out of the budget of the college dorm "shelves" > experience. > ;-) > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com (Links to any articles > referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically > under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com > [mailto:AquaticLife @ yahoogroups. com] On Behalf Of Amber Berglund > Sent: Sunday, May 31, 2009 7:29 PM > To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Angels and floating plants > > I can also add a point of view from having 2 angel's that keep > breeding. > They are VERY secure in their fish tank, in fact they're so secure > they'll attack anything that appears to be an intruder ;) Including > hands and arms > ;) LOL. > I don't see them as needing floating plants to feel more secure and > happy, but if you plan to breed them make sure you have only your > 2 angel's in one > tank or the rest of your tank is going to hate you ;) My angel's rule > the > 125 gallon tank they're in with other fish right now, until I get the > tank stand built I can't move them over to their own tank, they keep > all the fish on one side of the tank when they lay eggs. > I would almost suggest just keeping a single angel if you're going to > keep the angel fish with other fish too, otherwise you run the chances > of getting an aggressive pair like I do ;) > > Amber > > Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > > > > > > Live plants, I'm presuming? > > > > Almost all fish like plants in their tanks except for > certain species > > (many African cichlids, for example) that prefer > rocks. > > > > Yes, live plants can change the water chemistry but > usually in a good > > way if the plants are healthy. Plants will remove CO2 > from the water > > when the lights are on and put out O2. When removing > the CO2, this > > will raise the pH a little.. but this type of change > in pH (from CO2 > > changes) is not dangerous to fish like a pH spike or > crash caused by > > other chemicals. God created fish to handle pH changes > related to CO2 > > levels related to photosynthesis but He didn't foresee > us humans > > dumping chemicals in the water, when He gave us free > will. > > > > Plants will also use up more of the nutrients in the > water since they > > are a life form and need many of the same nutrients as > fish. They will > > also use up phosphates and nitrates as a food source. > This is good > > since fish put out a lot of ammonia which is converted > to nitrates via > > the nitrogen cycle and high levels of nitrates are not > good for the > > fish. > > > > Floating plants like Anacharis, Hornwort, etc., are > good as they'll > > provide shade for fish that do not like the bright > lights, they'll > > suck up nitrates and other nutrients from the water, > they'll suck up > > CO2 and put out O2 (and as floaters, they'll also get > even more light > > and more CO2 from the air so they'll grow even faster > and suck up even > > more of the nutrients/pollutant s from the water. > > > > We also do weekly PWC's (partial water changes - 25%) > to remove excess > > nitrates and pollution and replace the dirty water > with fresh water. > > You can do more frequent PWC's, even daily if you like > but do not go > > much more than a week in between your PWC's, filter > and tank > > maintenance or the water can start to get pretty > polluted. > > > > If you want to learn a lot more about the basics of > fish keeping, I > > have links to two free online tutorials that will walk > you through all > > of these things just like you were reading a well > written book. I also > > have an free online test that you can take to see how > well you are > > retaining all of your new information. Go to my blog, > on the "A to Z > > of Fish Keeping" page and you'll find these things > right near the top > > of that article. > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com <http://GoldLenny. > > blogspot. com> (Links > to any articles referenced in > > above reply are listed on the right side, > alphabetically under Labels > > and also under Archives by Year, Month) > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com > > <mailto:AquaticLife %40yahoogroups. com> [mailto:AquaticLife @ > > yahoogroups. com <mailto:AquaticLife %40yahoogroups. com>] On > Behalf Of Steve Biondi > > Sent: Saturday, May 30, 2009 5:10 PM > > To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com > <mailto:AquaticLife %40yahoogroups. com> > > Subject: [AquaticLife] Angels and floating plants > > > > Hi, > > > > Does anyone know if Angels do better with floating > plants as a cover? > > I just > > added some floaters and was curios if it makes any > difference to them > > or to the chemistry of the tank. > > > > Thanks, Steve

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 40636	From: jett07002	Date: 6/1/2009
Subject: Re: Acclimating new fish

If I may, I will add a little to this discussion. Aside from Donna I haven't heard anyone mention the quarantine tank. (Unless I missed it.) You said you are adding NEW fish to the already established tank. If NEW means you have just obtained them, I would certainly quarantine them before adding them to an established tank for at least 2 weeks. And I do this whether I obtained them from a private party or from the LFS. You never know what may have been in the other tanks. That's another reason Ray said to not add the bag/container water to the established aquarium. I have a little bit of a problem with Donna's method, though. If the water parameters are very different it would be very difficult, and I think unnecessary, to change the whole quarantine tank to the parameters of the new fishes water and then let the fish acclimate after many water changes. I would just do the drip method of acclimation before releasing them in the quarantine tank. PWCs, of course. They should always be done. joe t --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, Donna Ransome <djransome@...> wrote: > > When I have new fish at a different pH, I use the quarantine period to > acclimate them. I match the quarantine tank to their "before" pH and I do > 50% water changes weekly during the 3 weeks of quarantine. By the time they > are ready to go in the main tank, they are used to the new pH. > > > > _____ > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On > Behalf Of Steve Biondi > Sent: Saturday, May 30, 2009 6:05 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Subject: [AquaticLife] Acclimating new fish > > > > > > > > > Hi All, > > I am in the process of adding new fish to an already established tank.. I > am using the drip method since the pH of the new fish is higher that that of > my tank water. How long should it take before I actually add the fish. > It's been almost two hours of the dripping. Guessing that longer is better > but where is cutoff point? > > Thanks for the advice. > > Steve > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 40637	From: sandi turner	Date: 6/1/2009
Subject: Re: Now about DIY easy tank stands (was: Angels and floating plants)

My "boys" who are full grown men that weigh at least 300lbs ( my hubby wouldn't even attempt to get up on it!) each would not let me do that!! lol One of them refuses to have his pic taken at all and the other shy's away from the camera so I guess I will have to pass on that one unless I can sneak a shot in. :)   Sandi --- On Mon, 6/1/09, Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@...> wrote: From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@...> Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Now about DIY easy tank stands (was: Angels and floating plants) To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Date: Monday, June 1, 2009, 3:40 PM BTW... when you and your partner get up on the dresser and do some boogeying, take some pics and post them to the group.... maybe in a file folder called DIY Tank Stand Tester. LOL Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com [mailto:AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com] On Behalf Of sandi turner Sent: Monday, June 01, 2009 1:07 PM To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Now about DIY easy tank stands (was: Angels and floating plants) It is an extremely sturdy older wood dresser. I will definately make sure it will hold the weight beforeI set it up. That won't happen till august though as we will be moving then and I don't want to get it all set and ready to go just to have to take it down again!!  Thanks for the advise!   Sandi --- On Mon, 6/1/09, Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@gmail. com> wrote: From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@gmail. com> Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Now about DIY easy tank stands (was: Angels and floating plants) To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com Date: Monday, June 1, 2009, 11:10 AM Yes, certain STURDY furniture is OK to use for smaller tanks but a 55G tank will end up weighing around 500 pounds and in the U.S., furniture manufacturers have guidelines where the furniture only HAS to be built to support the weight it was designed to hold so a dresser does not have to be constructed to hold 500 pounds (unless it was made in the old days where maybe an assortment of cast iron chastity belts were found in the lingerie draws of many dressers.. LOL). There certainly are some pieces of furniture made to much higher standards and an "old" piece of furniture would be more likely to be built more sturdy than some modern pieces. Just make sure the furniture is VERY STURDY and you'd be willing to get up on it with a partner and do some boogeying (dancing) and if it holds up to that, then it should be OK for most smaller tanks. I've used smaller tables for 10G to 29G tanks but for BIG tanks (55G and up), it's probably better to make sure you have something designed/built to handle that kind of weight. The other big thing is most furniture isn't designed to have something SO top heavy on it such as an aquarium so that could also pose a problem. It sounds like your "good old dresser" was one of those pieces built to last many lifetimes so you should be good to go! Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com [mailto:AquaticLife @ yahoogroups. com] On Behalf Of sandi turner Sent: Monday, June 01, 2009 4:22 AM To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Now about DIY easy tank stands (was: Angels and floating plants) I found that a really good old dresser fits my 55 gallon tank perfectly and the drawers are excellent for storing the extra aquarium equiptment. I got mine off of free cycle so the only cost was the gas to pick it up!!! :)   Sandi --- On Sun, 5/31/09, Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@gmail. com> wrote: From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@gmail. com> Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Now about DIY easy tank stands (was: Angels and floating plants) To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com Date: Sunday, May 31, 2009, 10:45 PM Well... that's certainly one of the strongest and it's inexpensive but it's not as quick as some cinder blocks and pre-cut shelving. One would have to have a couple of power tools or at least be able to use hand tools to build the stand that I have on my blog so if one is not a handyperson, for 55G and smaller tanks, the cinder block and shelving works fine... as long as one doesn't mind the cinder block decor... but once again, them holes work perfect for a wine/booze rack. You know.. with cinder blocks and duct tape, one could probably build or repair just about anything. LOL Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com [mailto:AquaticLife @ yahoogroups. com] On Behalf Of bill1433 Sent: Sunday, May 31, 2009 8:36 PM To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Angels and floating plants Len, Sorry to disagree with you here, but for my money "the very best", quickest, and certainly the strongest, is the one you suggested from you, built by you, that is on your blog.   Anything that can disturb that stand must be at least 12 feet tall, have 6 arms and weigh a ton!  That is an aquarium stand, Mr.---no question about it! <big grin>   Bill --- On Sun, 5/31/09, Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@gmail. com> wrote: > From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@gmail. com> > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Angels and floating plants > To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com > Date: Sunday, May 31, 2009, 9:11 PM > You know the quickest tank stand that > one could make is the old college dorm "shelves"... cinder blocks and > oak 1" x 12"'s. > Depending on how you stack > the cinder blocks, like if you put the holes facing forward, you even > have a wine rack along with the shelves... OK.. maybe not wine back in > the college days but Rum, JD, Vodka, Tequila, Sambuca, etc. ;-) The > only expense was the oak shelving and the booze.  The cinder blocks > mysteriously appeared from a nearby construction site. ;-)  Pine > shelving would work for smaller tanks and also if you put a third > column in the middle to support the pine shelves.  You can usually buy > 1" x 12" shelves, pre-cut, in either oak or pine at your local big-box > home improvement store. > They also sell cinder > blocks if you do not wish to have a scavenger hunt to "find" some. ;-) > > And if you really want to get fancy, you can go with laminated > shelving and then spray paint the cinder blocks to match/contrast but > then you're getting out of the budget of the college dorm "shelves" > experience. > ;-) > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com (Links to any articles > referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically > under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com > [mailto:AquaticLife @ yahoogroups. com] On Behalf Of Amber Berglund > Sent: Sunday, May 31, 2009 7:29 PM > To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Angels and floating plants > > I can also add a point of view from having 2 angel's that keep > breeding. > They are VERY secure in their fish tank, in fact they're so secure > they'll attack anything that appears to be an intruder ;) Including > hands and arms > ;) LOL. > I don't see them as needing floating plants to feel more secure and > happy, but if you plan to breed them make sure you have only your > 2 angel's in one > tank or the rest of your tank is going to hate you ;) My angel's rule > the > 125 gallon tank they're in with other fish right now, until I get the > tank stand built I can't move them over to their own tank, they keep > all the fish on one side of the tank when they lay eggs. > I would almost suggest just keeping a single angel if you're going to > keep the angel fish with other fish too, otherwise you run the chances > of getting an aggressive pair like I do ;) > > Amber > > Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > > > > > > Live plants, I'm presuming? > > > > Almost all fish like plants in their tanks except for > certain species > > (many African cichlids, for example) that prefer > rocks. > > > > Yes, live plants can change the water chemistry but > usually in a good > > way if the plants are healthy. Plants will remove CO2 > from the water > > when the lights are on and put out O2. When removing > the CO2, this > > will raise the pH a little.. but this type of change > in pH (from CO2 > > changes) is not dangerous to fish like a pH spike or > crash caused by > > other chemicals. God created fish to handle pH changes > related to CO2 > > levels related to photosynthesis but He didn't foresee > us humans > > dumping chemicals in the water, when He gave us free > will. > > > > Plants will also use up more of the nutrients in the > water since they > > are a life form and need many of the same nutrients as > fish. They will > > also use up phosphates and nitrates as a food source. > This is good > > since fish put out a lot of ammonia which is converted > to nitrates via > > the nitrogen cycle and high levels of nitrates are not > good for the > > fish. > > > > Floating plants like Anacharis, Hornwort, etc., are > good as they'll > > provide shade for fish that do not like the bright > lights, they'll > > suck up nitrates and other nutrients from the water, > they'll suck up > > CO2 and put out O2 (and as floaters, they'll also get > even more light > > and more CO2 from the air so they'll grow even faster > and suck up even > > more of the nutrients/pollutant s from the water. > > > > We also do weekly PWC's (partial water changes - 25%) > to remove excess > > nitrates and pollution and replace the dirty water > with fresh water. > > You can do more frequent PWC's, even daily if you like > but do not go > > much more than a week in between your PWC's, filter > and tank > > maintenance or the water can start to get pretty > polluted. > > > > If you want to learn a lot more about the basics of > fish keeping, I > > have links to two free online tutorials that will walk > you through all > > of these things just like you were reading a well > written book. I also > > have an free online test that you can take to see how > well you are > > retaining all of your new information. Go to my blog, > on the "A to Z > > of Fish Keeping" page and you'll find these things > right near the top > > of that article. > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com <http://GoldLenny. > > blogspot. com> (Links > to any articles referenced in > > above reply are listed on the right side, > alphabetically under Labels > > and also under Archives by Year, Month) > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com > > <mailto:AquaticLife %40yahoogroups. com> [mailto:AquaticLife @ > > yahoogroups. com <mailto:AquaticLife %40yahoogroups. com>] On > Behalf Of Steve Biondi > > Sent: Saturday, May 30, 2009 5:10 PM > > To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com > <mailto:AquaticLife %40yahoogroups. com> > > Subject: [AquaticLife] Angels and floating plants > > > > Hi, > > > > Does anyone know if Angels do better with floating > plants as a cover? > > I just > > added some floaters and was curios if it makes any > difference to them > > or to the chemistry of the tank. > > > > Thanks, Steve [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 40638	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 6/1/2009
Subject: Re: Now about DIY easy tank stands (was: Angels and floating plants)

Well that's too bad, my mom always gets crazy pics of us doing weird things, and we don't mind posing (we being my sister and friends). I've even modeled my grandma's old clothing that she sent up to my mom (although who wears polyester pants now days, especially purple ones? LOL, yes it's my favorite color and no I don't wear them), mom has pics of me modeling grandma's clothing and my clothing from hawaii (over my regular clothes). I'm not the least bit afraid to have fun, although that has branded me as "weird" sometimes ;) Also I have used dresser's to hold tanks, but only 10 gallon ones, and I have a 10 gallon sitting on a kitchen table downstairs (that would be the dining table if we ever ate down there, LOL). At the rate I'm going I'm going to end up with a fish tank in every room on every available surface, LOL (I better not tell the hubby that or he won't let me, LOL). I'm about to go down to the hardware store and get me some cinder blocks and wood ;) Perhaps I need a sharper stick for the hubby? LOL, just kidding. Amber sandi turner wrote: > > > My "boys" who are full grown men that weigh at least 300lbs ( my hubby > wouldn't even attempt to get up on it!) each would not let me do > that!! lol One of them refuses to have his pic taken at all and the > other shy's away from the camera so I guess I will have to pass on > that one unless I can sneak a shot in. :) > > Sandi > > --- On Mon, 6/1/09, Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@... > <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com>> wrote: > > From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@... > <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com>> > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Now about DIY easy tank stands (was: Angels > and floating plants) > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Date: Monday, June 1, 2009, 3:40 PM > > BTW... when you and your partner get up on the dresser and do some > boogeying, take some pics and post them to the group.... maybe in a file > folder called DIY Tank Stand Tester. LOL > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com > (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right > side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com [mailto:AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. > com] On > Behalf Of sandi turner > Sent: Monday, June 01, 2009 1:07 PM > To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Now about DIY easy tank stands (was: Angels and > floating plants) > > It is an extremely sturdy older wood dresser. I will definately make > sure it > will hold the weight beforeI set it up. That won't happen till august > though > as we will be moving then and I don't want to get it all set and ready > to go > just to have to take it down again!! Thanks for the advise! > > Sandi > > --- On Mon, 6/1/09, Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@gmail. com> wrote: > > From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@gmail. com> > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Now about DIY easy tank stands (was: Angels and > floating plants) > To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com > Date: Monday, June 1, 2009, 11:10 AM > > Yes, certain STURDY furniture is OK to use for smaller tanks but a 55G > tank > will end up weighing around 500 pounds and in the U.S., furniture > manufacturers have guidelines where the furniture only HAS to be built to > support the weight it was designed to hold so a dresser does not have > to be > constructed to hold 500 pounds (unless it was made in the old days where > maybe an assortment of cast iron chastity belts were found in the lingerie > draws of many dressers.. LOL). There certainly are some pieces of > furniture > made to much higher standards and an "old" piece of furniture would be > more > likely to be built more sturdy than some modern pieces. Just make sure the > furniture is VERY STURDY and you'd be willing to get up on it with a > partner > and do some boogeying (dancing) and if it holds up to that, then it should > be OK for most smaller tanks. I've used smaller tables for 10G to 29G > tanks > but for BIG tanks (55G and up), it's probably better to make sure you have > something designed/built to handle that kind of weight. The other big > thing > is most furniture isn't designed to have something SO top heavy on it such > as an aquarium so that could also pose a problem. It sounds like your > "good > old dresser" was one of those pieces built to last many lifetimes so you > should be good to go! > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com (Links to any articles > referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically > under > Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com [mailto:AquaticLife @ yahoogroups. > com] > On Behalf Of sandi turner > Sent: Monday, June 01, 2009 4:22 AM > To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Now about DIY easy tank stands (was: Angels and > floating plants) > > I found that a really good old dresser fits my 55 gallon tank > perfectly and > the drawers are excellent for storing the extra aquarium equiptment. I got > mine off of free cycle so the only cost was the gas to pick it up!!! :) > > Sandi > > --- On Sun, 5/31/09, Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@gmail. com> wrote: > > From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@gmail. com> > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Now about DIY easy tank stands (was: Angels and > floating plants) > To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com > Date: Sunday, May 31, 2009, 10:45 PM > > Well... that's certainly one of the strongest and it's inexpensive but > it's > not as quick as some cinder blocks and pre-cut shelving. One would have to > have a couple of power tools or at least be able to use hand tools to > build > the stand that I have on my blog so if one is not a handyperson, for > 55G and > smaller tanks, the cinder block and shelving works fine... as long as one > doesn't mind the cinder block decor... but once again, them holes work > perfect for a wine/booze rack. > > You know.. with cinder blocks and duct tape, one could probably build or > repair just about anything. LOL > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com (Links to any articles > referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically > under > Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com [mailto:AquaticLife @ yahoogroups. > com] > On Behalf Of bill1433 > Sent: Sunday, May 31, 2009 8:36 PM > To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Angels and floating plants > > Len, > > Sorry to disagree with you here, but for my money "the very best", > quickest, > and certainly the strongest, is the one you suggested from you, built by > you, that is on your blog. > > Anything that can disturb that stand must be at least 12 feet tall, have 6 > arms and weigh a ton! That is an aquarium stand, Mr.---no question about > it! <big grin> > > Bill > > --- On Sun, 5/31/09, Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@gmail. com> wrote: > > > From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@gmail. com> > > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Angels and floating plants > > To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com > > Date: Sunday, May 31, 2009, 9:11 PM > > You know the quickest tank stand that > > one could make is the old college dorm "shelves"... cinder blocks and > > oak 1" x 12"'s. > > Depending on how you stack > > the cinder blocks, like if you put the holes facing forward, you even > > have a wine rack along with the shelves... OK.. maybe not wine back in > > the college days but Rum, JD, Vodka, Tequila, Sambuca, etc. ;-) The > > only expense was the oak shelving and the booze. The cinder blocks > > mysteriously appeared from a nearby construction site. ;-) Pine > > shelving would work for smaller tanks and also if you put a third > > column in the middle to support the pine shelves. You can usually buy > > 1" x 12" shelves, pre-cut, in either oak or pine at your local big-box > > home improvement store. > > They also sell cinder > > blocks if you do not wish to have a scavenger hunt to "find" some. ;-) > > > > And if you really want to get fancy, you can go with laminated > > shelving and then spray paint the cinder blocks to match/contrast but > > then you're getting out of the budget of the college dorm "shelves" > > experience. > > ;-) > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com (Links to any articles > > referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically > > under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com > > [mailto:AquaticLife @ yahoogroups. com] On Behalf Of Amber Berglund > > Sent: Sunday, May 31, 2009 7:29 PM > > To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Angels and floating plants > > > > I can also add a point of view from having 2 angel's that keep > > breeding. > > They are VERY secure in their fish tank, in fact they're so secure > > they'll attack anything that appears to be an intruder ;) Including > > hands and arms > > ;) LOL. > > I don't see them as needing floating plants to feel more secure and > > happy, but if you plan to breed them make sure you have only your > > 2 angel's in one > > tank or the rest of your tank is going to hate you ;) My angel's rule > > the > > 125 gallon tank they're in with other fish right now, until I get the > > tank stand built I can't move them over to their own tank, they keep > > all the fish on one side of the tank when they lay eggs. > > I would almost suggest just keeping a single angel if you're going to > > keep the angel fish with other fish too, otherwise you run the chances > > of getting an aggressive pair like I do ;) > > > > Amber > > > > Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > > > > > > > > > Live plants, I'm presuming? > > > > > > Almost all fish like plants in their tanks except for > > certain species > > > (many African cichlids, for example) that prefer > > rocks. > > > > > > Yes, live plants can change the water chemistry but > > usually in a good > > > way if the plants are healthy. Plants will remove CO2 > > from the water > > > when the lights are on and put out O2. When removing > > the CO2, this > > > will raise the pH a little.. but this type of change > > in pH (from CO2 > > > changes) is not dangerous to fish like a pH spike or > > crash caused by > > > other chemicals. God created fish to handle pH changes > > related to CO2 > > > levels related to photosynthesis but He didn't foresee > > us humans > > > dumping chemicals in the water, when He gave us free > > will. > > > > > > Plants will also use up more of the nutrients in the > > water since they > > > are a life form and need many of the same nutrients as > > fish. They will > > > also use up phosphates and nitrates as a food source. > > This is good > > > since fish put out a lot of ammonia which is converted > > to nitrates via > > > the nitrogen cycle and high levels of nitrates are not > > good for the > > > fish. > > > > > > Floating plants like Anacharis, Hornwort, etc., are > > good as they'll > > > provide shade for fish that do not like the bright > > lights, they'll > > > suck up nitrates and other nutrients from the water, > > they'll suck up > > > CO2 and put out O2 (and as floaters, they'll also get > > even more light > > > and more CO2 from the air so they'll grow even faster > > and suck up even > > > more of the nutrients/pollutant s from the water. > > > > > > We also do weekly PWC's (partial water changes - 25%) > > to remove excess > > > nitrates and pollution and replace the dirty water > > with fresh water. > > > You can do more frequent PWC's, even daily if you like > > but do not go > > > much more than a week in between your PWC's, filter > > and tank > > > maintenance or the water can start to get pretty > > polluted. > > > > > > If you want to learn a lot more about the basics of > > fish keeping, I > > > have links to two free online tutorials that will walk > > you through all > > > of these things just like you were reading a well > > written book. I also > > > have an free online test that you can take to see how > > well you are > > > retaining all of your new information. Go to my blog, > > on the "A to Z > > > of Fish Keeping" page and you'll find these things > > right near the top > > > of that article. > > > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com <http://GoldLenny. > > > blogspot. com> (Links > > to any articles referenced in > > > above reply are listed on the right side, > > alphabetically under Labels > > > and also under Archives by Year, Month) > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > From: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com > > > <mailto:AquaticLife %40yahoogroups. com> [mailto:AquaticLife @ > > > yahoogroups. com <mailto:AquaticLife %40yahoogroups. com>] On > > Behalf Of Steve Biondi > > > Sent: Saturday, May 30, 2009 5:10 PM > > > To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com > > <mailto:AquaticLife %40yahoogroups. com> > > > Subject: [AquaticLife] Angels and floating plants > > > > > > Hi, > > > > > > Does anyone know if Angels do better with floating > > plants as a cover? > > > I just > > > added some floaters and was curios if it makes any > > difference to them > > > or to the chemistry of the tank. > > > > > > Thanks, Steve > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 40639	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 6/1/2009
Subject: Darter Fish

Does anyone out there have Darter fish in their freshwater tanks? I was trying to find info on them and didn't find much. I was trying to find info on the north american varieties not the south american ones, Mongabay has info on the south american ones. I suppose the north american darters shouldn't be much different but I'm sure they prefer a cooler temperature ;) Anyone have a good page on info for darter fish in North America? I believe the ones I was looking at were caught in Virginia, and I think they are rainbow darters. I'm guessing that they're going to prefer cooler temps than even my hillstream loaches. Amber

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 40640	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 6/1/2009
Subject: "Looking for Mr. Goodfish"

This is a Dave Barry column on keeping fish, once he gets around to telling about it. It actually starts out with keeping a turtle. http://www.miamiherald.com/living/columnists/dave-barry/story/1054034.ht ml TinyURL: http://tinyurl.com/lmnlot Site may require registration. \\Steve//

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 40641	From: pam andress	Date: 6/1/2009
Subject: Re: Darter Fish

I have 2 pairs of rainbow darters and yes they do prefer cooler water. I'm hoping I can keep them alive once the summer really gets going. Depends on how hot my house gets before I turn on the air conditioner I suppose. I just googled rainbow darters and found info that way. Pam To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com From: amber@... Date: Mon, 1 Jun 2009 15:37:25 -0800 Subject: [AquaticLife] Darter Fish Does anyone out there have Darter fish in their freshwater tanks? I was trying to find info on them and didn't find much. I was trying to find info on the north american varieties not the south american ones, Mongabay has info on the south american ones. I suppose the north american darters shouldn't be much different but I'm sure they prefer a cooler temperature ;) Anyone have a good page on info for darter fish in North America? I believe the ones I was looking at were caught in Virginia, and I think they are rainbow darters. I'm guessing that they're going to prefer cooler temps than even my hillstream loaches. Amber [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 40642	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 6/1/2009
Subject: Re: Darter Fish

Amber, Look at the NANFA site, http://www.nanfa.org/ for info. You probably need to be a member to access a lot of stuff, but you may be able to grab some links and stuff from there. \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Amber Berglund Sent: Monday, June 01, 2009 7:37 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Darter Fish Does anyone out there have Darter fish in their freshwater tanks? I was trying to find info on them and didn't find much. I was trying to find info on the north american varieties not the south american ones, Mongabay has info on the south american ones. I suppose the north american darters shouldn't be much different but I'm sure they prefer a cooler temperature ;) Anyone have a good page on info for darter fish in North America? I believe the ones I was looking at were caught in Virginia, and I think they are rainbow darters. I'm guessing that they're going to prefer cooler temps than even my hillstream loaches. Amber

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 40643	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 6/1/2009
Subject: Re: Darter Fish

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Darter_(fish) Looks like there's a few hundred species just in N. America so you'd need to find out the species name to find out more about the preferences of the species. I know the "Snail Darter" made headlines off and on for the past thirty years or so as the tree-huggers shut down some major development, the Tellico Dam in Tennessee, because the "Snail Darter" was found in a stream in the area. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Snail_darter_controversy Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Amber Berglund Sent: Monday, June 01, 2009 6:37 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Darter Fish Does anyone out there have Darter fish in their freshwater tanks? I was trying to find info on them and didn't find much. I was trying to find info on the north american varieties not the south american ones, Mongabay has info on the south american ones. I suppose the north american darters shouldn't be much different but I'm sure they prefer a cooler temperature ;) Anyone have a good page on info for darter fish in North America? I believe the ones I was looking at were caught in Virginia, and I think they are rainbow darters. I'm guessing that they're going to prefer cooler temps than even my hillstream loaches. Amber

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 40644	From: Steve Biondi	Date: 6/1/2009
Subject: Modifying Eclipse tanks

Hi Lenny, Steve, and group, Wondering if there is a way to modify an Eclipse tank to use another filter? Any thoughts as how to add either a HOB or canister to my existing tank? The tank is using Purigen in place of the carbon filter but never seems to pick up the detritus on the bottom. Thanks, Steve [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 40645	From: Donna Ransome	Date: 6/1/2009
Subject: Re: Now about DIY easy tank stands (was: Angels and floating plants)

For about a year, LOL. I used an extremely sturdy oak Thomasville serving cabinet as a stand for a 20G fry tank on occasion as required. After a while the weight caused the drawers and doors to sag and stick when opening. _____ From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of bill1433 Sent: Monday, June 01, 2009 2:57 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Now about DIY easy tank stands (was: Angels and floating plants) Just as a safety net I would get about 3 people to sit on the dresser all at once to be sure its top plus the legs and sides will take the weight. 500 hundred pounds of water on your floors is a real mess unless you know someone who is really into carpet cleaning! Bill --- On Mon, 6/1/09, sandi turner <skwirrley2@yahoo. <mailto:skwirrley2%40yahoo.com> com> wrote: > From: sandi turner <skwirrley2@yahoo. <mailto:skwirrley2%40yahoo.com> com> > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Now about DIY easy tank stands (was: Angels and floating plants) > To: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com > Date: Monday, June 1, 2009, 2:06 PM > It is an extremely sturdy older wood > dresser. I will definately make sure it will hold the weight > beforeI set it up. That won't happen till august though as > we will be moving then and I don't want to get it all set > and ready to go just to have to take it down again!! > Thanks for the advise! > > Sandi > > --- On Mon, 6/1/09, Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@gmail. <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com> com> > wrote: > > > From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@gmail. <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com> com> > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Now about DIY easy tank stands > (was: Angels and floating plants) > To: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com > Date: Monday, June 1, 2009, 11:10 AM > > > > > > > > > Yes, certain STURDY furniture is OK to use for smaller > tanks but a 55G tank > will end up weighing around 500 pounds and in the U.S., > furniture > manufacturers have guidelines where the furniture only HAS > to be built to > support the weight it was designed to hold so a dresser > does not have to be > constructed to hold 500 pounds (unless it was made in the > old days where > maybe an assortment of cast iron chastity belts were found > in the lingerie > draws of many dressers.. LOL). There certainly are some > pieces of furniture > made to much higher standards and an "old" piece of > furniture would be more > likely to be built more sturdy than some modern pieces. > Just make sure the > furniture is VERY STURDY and you'd be willing to get up on > it with a partner > and do some boogeying (dancing) and if it holds up to that, > then it should > be OK for most smaller tanks. I've used smaller tables for > 10G to 29G tanks > but for BIG tanks (55G and up), it's probably better to > make sure you have > something designed/built to handle that kind of weight. The > other big thing > is most furniture isn't designed to have something SO top > heavy on it such > as an aquarium so that could also pose a problem. It sounds > like your "good > old dresser" was one of those pieces built to last many > lifetimes so you > should be good to go! > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com > (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed > on the right > side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives > by Year, Month) > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com [mailto:AquaticLife@ > yahoogroups. com] On > Behalf Of sandi turner > Sent: Monday, June 01, 2009 4:22 AM > To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Now about DIY easy tank stands > (was: Angels and > floating plants) > > I found that a really good old dresser fits my 55 gallon > tank perfectly and > the drawers are excellent for storing the extra aquarium > equiptment. I got > mine off of free cycle so the only cost was the gas to pick > it up!!! :) > > Sandi > > --- On Sun, 5/31/09, Lenny V. aka GoldLenny > <GoldLenny@gmail. com> wrote: > > From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@gmail. com> > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Now about DIY easy tank stands > (was: Angels and > floating plants) > To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com > Date: Sunday, May 31, 2009, 10:45 PM > > Well... that's certainly one of the strongest and it's > inexpensive but it's > not as quick as some cinder blocks and pre-cut shelving. > One would have to > have a couple of power tools or at least be able to use > hand tools to build > the stand that I have on my blog so if one is not a > handyperson, for 55G and > smaller tanks, the cinder block and shelving works fine... > as long as one > doesn't mind the cinder block decor... but once again, them > holes work > perfect for a wine/booze rack. > > You know.. with cinder blocks and duct tape, one could > probably build or > repair just about anything. LOL > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com (Links to any articles > referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, > alphabetically under > Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com [mailto:AquaticLife @ > yahoogroups. com] > On Behalf Of bill1433 > Sent: Sunday, May 31, 2009 8:36 PM > To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Angels and floating plants > > Len, > > Sorry to disagree with you here, but for my money "the very > best", quickest, > and certainly the strongest, is the one you suggested from > you, built by > you, that is on your blog. > > Anything that can disturb that stand must be at least 12 > feet tall, have 6 > arms and weigh a ton! That is an aquarium stand, Mr.---no > question about > it! <big grin> > > Bill > > --- On Sun, 5/31/09, Lenny V. aka GoldLenny > <GoldLenny@gmail. com> wrote: > > > From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@gmail. > com> > > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Angels and floating plants > > To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com > > Date: Sunday, May 31, 2009, 9:11 PM > > You know the quickest tank stand that > > one could make is the old college dorm "shelves"... > cinder blocks and > > oak 1" x 12"'s. > > Depending on how you stack > > the cinder blocks, like if you put the holes facing > forward, you even > > have a wine rack along with the shelves... OK.. maybe > not wine back in > > the college days but Rum, JD, Vodka, Tequila, Sambuca, > etc. ;-) The > > only expense was the oak shelving and the booze. The > cinder blocks > > mysteriously appeared from a nearby construction site. > ;-) Pine > > shelving would work for smaller tanks and also if you > put a third > > column in the middle to support the pine shelves. > You can usually buy > > 1" x 12" shelves, pre-cut, in either oak or pine at > your local big-box > > home improvement store. > > They also sell cinder > > blocks if you do not wish to have a scavenger hunt to > "find" some. ;-) > > > > And if you really want to get fancy, you can go with > laminated > > shelving and then spray paint the cinder blocks to > match/contrast but > > then you're getting out of the budget of the college > dorm "shelves" > > experience. > > ;-) > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com (Links to any articles > > > referenced in above reply are listed on the right > side, alphabetically > > under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com > > [mailto:AquaticLife @ yahoogroups. com] On Behalf Of > Amber Berglund > > Sent: Sunday, May 31, 2009 7:29 PM > > To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Angels and floating plants > > > > I can also add a point of view from having 2 angel's > that keep > > breeding. > > They are VERY secure in their fish tank, in fact > they're so secure > > they'll attack anything that appears to be an intruder > ;) Including > > hands and arms > > ;) LOL. > > I don't see them as needing floating plants to feel > more secure and > > happy, but if you plan to breed them make sure you > have only your > > 2 angel's in one > > tank or the rest of your tank is going to hate you ;) > My angel's rule > > the > > 125 gallon tank they're in with other fish right now, > until I get the > > tank stand built I can't move them over to their own > tank, they keep > > all the fish on one side of the tank when they lay > eggs. > > I would almost suggest just keeping a single angel if > you're going to > > keep the angel fish with other fish too, otherwise you > run the chances > > of getting an aggressive pair like I do ;) > > > > Amber > > > > Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > > > > > > > > > Live plants, I'm presuming? > > > > > > Almost all fish like plants in their tanks except > for > > certain species > > > (many African cichlids, for example) that prefer > > rocks. > > > > > > Yes, live plants can change the water chemistry > but > > usually in a good > > > way if the plants are healthy. Plants will remove > CO2 > > from the water > > > when the lights are on and put out O2. When > removing > > the CO2, this > > > will raise the pH a little.. but this type of > change > > in pH (from CO2 > > > changes) is not dangerous to fish like a pH spike > or > > crash caused by > > > other chemicals. God created fish to handle pH > changes > > related to CO2 > > > levels related to photosynthesis but He didn't > foresee > > us humans > > > dumping chemicals in the water, when He gave us > free > > will. > > > > > > Plants will also use up more of the nutrients in > the > > water since they > > > are a life form and need many of the same > nutrients as > > fish. They will > > > also use up phosphates and nitrates as a food > source. > > This is good > > > since fish put out a lot of ammonia which is > converted > > to nitrates via > > > the nitrogen cycle and high levels of nitrates > are not > > good for the > > > fish. > > > > > > Floating plants like Anacharis, Hornwort, etc., > are > > good as they'll > > > provide shade for fish that do not like the > bright > > lights, they'll > > > suck up nitrates and other nutrients from the > water, > > they'll suck up > > > CO2 and put out O2 (and as floaters, they'll also > get > > even more light > > > and more CO2 from the air so they'll grow even > faster > > and suck up even > > > more of the nutrients/pollutant s from the > water. > > > > > > We also do weekly PWC's (partial water changes - > 25%) > > to remove excess > > > nitrates and pollution and replace the dirty > water > > with fresh water. > > > You can do more frequent PWC's, even daily if you > like > > but do not go > > > much more than a week in between your PWC's, > filter > > and tank > > > maintenance or the water can start to get pretty > > polluted. > > > > > > If you want to learn a lot more about the basics > of > > fish keeping, I > > > have links to two free online tutorials that will > walk > > you through all > > > of these things just like you were reading a > well > > written book. I also > > > have an free online test that you can take to see > how > > well you are > > > retaining all of your new information. Go to my > blog, > > on the "A to Z > > > of Fish Keeping" page and you'll find these > things > > right near the top > > > of that article. > > > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com <http://GoldLenny. > > > > blogspot. com> (Links > > to any articles referenced in > > > above reply are listed on the right side, > > alphabetically under Labels > > > and also under Archives by Year, Month) > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > From: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com > > > <mailto:AquaticLife %40yahoogroups. com> > [mailto:AquaticLife @ > > > yahoogroups. com <mailto:AquaticLife > %40yahoogroups. com>] On > > Behalf Of Steve Biondi > > > Sent: Saturday, May 30, 2009 5:10 PM > > > To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com > > <mailto:AquaticLife %40yahoogroups. com> > > > Subject: [AquaticLife] Angels and floating > plants > > > > > > Hi, > > > > > > Does anyone know if Angels do better with > floating > > plants as a cover? > > > I just > > > added some floaters and was curios if it makes > any > > difference to them > > > or to the chemistry of the tank. > > > > > > Thanks, Steve > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > ------------------------------------ > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when > replying, Thank You. > ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> > ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> > PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is > NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of > the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new > subject (was re: old subject)" <- > <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. > , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. > > If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of > unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by > clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the home page. > > Or e-mail aquaticlife- <mailto:aquaticlife-digest%40yahoogroups.com> digest@yahoogroups.com > to receive the digest, which includes up to 25 posts at a > time in a single email > > Or email aquaticlife- <mailto:aquaticlife-nomail%40yahoogroups.com> nomail@yahoogroups.com > for the No E-Mail option where you will still be able to > read messages on the group and post replies. > > Or email aquaticlife- <mailto:aquaticlife-normal%40yahoogroups.com> normal@yahoogroups.com > to receive individual e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links > > > mailto:AquaticLife- <mailto:AquaticLife-fullfeatured%40yahoogroups.com> fullfeatured@yahoogroups.com > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 40646	From: Donna Ransome	Date: 6/1/2009
Subject: Re: Acclimating new fish

One mix of baking soda and Epsom salts when filling. All the rest is just standard tap water changes. It would be harder if you needed to go from softer to harder though. _____ From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of jett07002 Sent: Monday, June 01, 2009 3:25 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Acclimating new fish If I may, I will add a little to this discussion. Aside from Donna I haven't heard anyone mention the quarantine tank. (Unless I missed it.) You said you are adding NEW fish to the already established tank. If NEW means you have just obtained them, I would certainly quarantine them before adding them to an established tank for at least 2 weeks. And I do this whether I obtained them from a private party or from the LFS. You never know what may have been in the other tanks. That's another reason Ray said to not add the bag/container water to the established aquarium. I have a little bit of a problem with Donna's method, though. If the water parameters are very different it would be very difficult, and I think unnecessary, to change the whole quarantine tank to the parameters of the new fishes water and then let the fish acclimate after many water changes. I would just do the drip method of acclimation before releasing them in the quarantine tank. PWCs, of course. They should always be done. joe t --- In AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com, Donna Ransome <djransome@...> wrote: > > When I have new fish at a different pH, I use the quarantine period to > acclimate them. I match the quarantine tank to their "before" pH and I do > 50% water changes weekly during the 3 weeks of quarantine. By the time they > are ready to go in the main tank, they are used to the new pH. > > > > _____ > > From: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com] On > Behalf Of Steve Biondi > Sent: Saturday, May 30, 2009 6:05 PM > To: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com > Subject: [AquaticLife] Acclimating new fish > > > > > > > > > Hi All, > > I am in the process of adding new fish to an already established tank.. I > am using the drip method since the pH of the new fish is higher that that of > my tank water. How long should it take before I actually add the fish. > It's been almost two hours of the dripping. Guessing that longer is better > but where is cutoff point? > > Thanks for the advice. > > Steve > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 40647	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 6/1/2009
Subject: Re: Modifying Eclipse tanks

I really don't know much about Eclipse tanks, so I can't even begin to determine if they can be modified. \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Steve Biondi Sent: Monday, June 01, 2009 8:20 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Modifying Eclipse tanks Hi Lenny, Steve, and group, Wondering if there is a way to modify an Eclipse tank to use another filter? Any thoughts as how to add either a HOB or canister to my existing tank? The tank is using Purigen in place of the carbon filter but never seems to pick up the detritus on the bottom. Thanks, Steve [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] ------------------------------------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the home page. Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com to receive the digest, which includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com for the No E-Mail option where you will still be able to read messages on the group and post replies. Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com to receive individual e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 40648	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 6/1/2009
Subject: Re: Darter Fish

I had already read the wiki on them and realized the same thing ;) LOL. But thanks Lenny. I found their scientific name finally and found a site with better info on these fish (and they even sell them, LOL). http://www.btdarters.com/pages/pricelist.html They are the Rainbow Darter (/Etheostoma caeruleum/), at the bottom of the page. Looks like the temps aren't too bad for them, they says 72-76. Amber * * Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > > > http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Darter_ > <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Darter_>(fish) > > Looks like there's a few hundred species just in N. America so you'd > need to > find out the species name to find out more about the preferences of the > species. > > I know the "Snail Darter" made headlines off and on for the past thirty > years or so as the tree-huggers shut down some major development, the > Tellico Dam in Tennessee, because the "Snail Darter" was found in a stream > in the area. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Snail_darter_controversy > <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Snail_darter_controversy> > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right > side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On > Behalf Of Amber Berglund > Sent: Monday, June 01, 2009 6:37 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Subject: [AquaticLife] Darter Fish > > Does anyone out there have Darter fish in their freshwater tanks? I was > trying to find info on them and didn't find much. I was trying to find > info > on the north american varieties not the south american ones, Mongabay has > info on the south american ones. I suppose the north american darters > shouldn't be much different but I'm sure they prefer a cooler > temperature ;) > Anyone have a good page on info for darter fish in North America? I > believe > the ones I was looking at were caught in Virginia, and I think they are > rainbow darters. I'm guessing that they're going to prefer cooler > temps than > even my hillstream loaches. > > Amber > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 40649	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 6/1/2009
Subject: Re: Modifying Eclipse tanks

I've never had a filter actually manage to suck up enough water to suck up the detritus on the bottom of the tank too, normally that has to be done with regular gravel cleaning. Is it just not circulating the tank very well? Amber Steve Biondi wrote: > > > Hi Lenny, Steve, and group, > > Wondering if there is a way to modify an Eclipse tank to use another > filter? > Any thoughts as how to add either a HOB or canister to my existing tank? > The tank is using Purigen in place of the carbon filter but never seems to > pick up the detritus on the bottom. > > Thanks, Steve > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 40650	From: Steve Biondi	Date: 6/1/2009
Subject: Re: Modifying Eclipse tanks

Hi Amber, I am a big fan of the canister filters. Both of my other tanks are running Rena 3's and are pretty clear. I noticed that the Eclipses do not move enough of the residues and accumulated crap to get it out of the water. I would like to find a way to put another filter on to make the water spotless and clear. the way that the hood is designed kinda limits adding another filter but I'm guessing that Lenny or Steve might have some ideas for me. BTW, the purigen is enclosed in an old nylon stocking, resting on the carbon store-bought cartridge. Good but not optimal yet. Steve _____ From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Amber Berglund Sent: Monday, June 01, 2009 7:45 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Modifying Eclipse tanks I've never had a filter actually manage to suck up enough water to suck up the detritus on the bottom of the tank too, normally that has to be done with regular gravel cleaning. Is it just not circulating the tank very well? Amber Steve Biondi wrote: > > > Hi Lenny, Steve, and group, > > Wondering if there is a way to modify an Eclipse tank to use another > filter? > Any thoughts as how to add either a HOB or canister to my existing tank? > The tank is using Purigen in place of the carbon filter but never seems to > pick up the detritus on the bottom. > > Thanks, Steve > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 40651	From: dani_in_nd	Date: 6/1/2009
Subject: Hallo all!

Hey, y'all! I just wanted to thank you for letting me be a part of this great group! Due to medical problems I will have to unsub from many of the wonderful yahoo groups to which I belong. All of the posts have been informative and hilarious. ; ) My snail eggs seem different this time around - a little pink and filling out, so I hope to be a mama to some more snails soon. Anyways, y'all have a great summer and I will get back to this group when I can. In the meantime, I won't be on the computer and don't want to come back to a billion emails in my inbox. ; ) Thanks! Dani in ND

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 40652	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 6/1/2009
Subject: Re: Hallo all!

You can just change your settings to "no email" in your yahoo groups too, you don't have to unsubscribe. Amber dani_in_nd wrote: > > > Hey, y'all! > > I just wanted to thank you for letting me be a part of this great group! > > Due to medical problems I will have to unsub from many of the > wonderful yahoo groups to which I belong. All of the posts have been > informative and hilarious. ; ) > > My snail eggs seem different this time around - a little pink and > filling out, so I hope to be a mama to some more snails soon. > > Anyways, y'all have a great summer and I will get back to this group > when I can. In the meantime, I won't be on the computer and don't want > to come back to a billion emails in my inbox. ; ) > > Thanks! > > Dani in ND > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 40653	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 6/2/2009
Subject: Re: Modifying Eclipse tanks

Steve, Which model Eclipse? I'm not sure that would matter much but it might... with a larger model possibly having more room in the hood to make modifications/cuts in the hood to allow for a second filter system. With the way an Eclipse hood having the lighting and filtration built into the hood, you will have to do your homework, technically what you are doing here, but give us more details about the size/model Eclipse. The Eclipse models that I've seen basically have a Marineland Bio-Wheel filtration system built into the hood but a horizontal version rather than the upright versions like on HOB's (hang on back) Bio-Wheel filter systems. As far as picking up detritus off the bottom, NO FILTER will really do that, although a UGF attempts to suck detritus down through the gravel but they aren't really efficient at doing that either since you would need a LOT OF SUCTION to suck detritus down through the substrate and across the bottom of the tank towards the uplift tube of a UGF. That is why it's important to vacuum the gravel on a weekly basis, to remove the detritus. If the Eclipse is large enough, you could put one or more powerheads in the tank where the powerhead directs water towards the bottom which would then cause the detritus to go into suspension in the water column and then it would eventually be filtered out of the water by your Eclipse filter or the pre-filters on the powerheads. Your other option, if your tank isn't large enough of if you do not want powerheads spraying fast streams of water around your tank (some fish do not like this) is to put in a RUGF (Reverse UGF) which would mean you would have to break down the tank, put a UGF plate down first, then your gravel. Then, instead of using a powerhead on the uplift tube to suck water down through the gravel, pointing the powerhead into the uplift tube so that it pushes large volumes of water down under the UGF plate which then comes up through the gravel and this will help to lift any detritus into the water column to be filtered out by your other filtration. Either of these methods will mean a lot more suspended particulate in your water column so if you do not have enough filtration on the tank to constantly filter out this particulate, your water will not look crystal clear. If the above is done, while you will not have to vacuum your gravel as frequently, you would have to do more frequent filter maintenance to clean all the detritus out of your filter media. After researching many filter systems for my 65G goldfish tank (big fish with a heavy bioload that constantly forage in the gravel so they are constantly stirring up detritus), I've found that a thin layer of gravel (around 1/2" to 3/4") and double the filtration works best at keeping the water reasonably clear of particulate (you'll never have it crystal clear with hungry goldfish always foraging around in the gravel). There is also this intake tube modification that has been around on goldfish forums for several years (which I'm going to try one day) but I'm not sure if this would work on an Eclipse filter system. Check it out though.... http://www.goldfishconnection.com/articles/details.php?articleId=114&parentI d=10 This "UI" (Ultimate Intake Tube... don't ask me why they call it "UI" and not "UIT"???) will do a better job of filtering water from several layers in the water column instead of just one level like most intake tubes do. You can see where they have holes drilled at five different levels, including a set of holes just 1/2" off the bottom so those holes would be more likely to get any detritus off of the bottom. You could also just drill most of the holes near the bottom or just buy an extension for your current intake tube to get the intake down to the gravel which might get the filter to suck up more detritus off the bottom. BUT... I still think your simplest thing will be do vacuum the gravel when you do weekly PWC's. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Steve Biondi Sent: Monday, June 01, 2009 7:20 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Modifying Eclipse tanks Hi Lenny, Steve, and group, Wondering if there is a way to modify an Eclipse tank to use another filter? Any thoughts as how to add either a HOB or canister to my existing tank? The tank is using Purigen in place of the carbon filter but never seems to pick up the detritus on the bottom. Thanks, Steve

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 40654	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 6/2/2009
Subject: Re: Hallo all!

Yep, just "Edit My Membership" on the home page, after you sign in and change your preferences to "No Mail" with all of your Yahoo Groups. The other option is going to the Daily Digest which will put up to 25 emails into one "Daily Digest" for you to read at your convenience instead of 25 separate replies. Of course, it would still take time to read the digest so "No mail" is probably your best option for now. At least if you have a question, you could always go to the group's page and post your message and read replies from the website, instead of in your email. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Amber Berglund Sent: Tuesday, June 02, 2009 12:11 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Hallo all! You can just change your settings to "no email" in your yahoo groups too, you don't have to unsubscribe. Amber dani_in_nd wrote: > > > Hey, y'all! > > I just wanted to thank you for letting me be a part of this great group! > > Due to medical problems I will have to unsub from many of the > wonderful yahoo groups to which I belong. All of the posts have been > informative and hilarious. ; ) > > My snail eggs seem different this time around - a little pink and > filling out, so I hope to be a mama to some more snails soon. > > Anyways, y'all have a great summer and I will get back to this group > when I can. In the meantime, I won't be on the computer and don't want > to come back to a billion emails in my inbox. ; ) > > Thanks! > > Dani in ND > > ------------------------------------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the home page. Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com to receive the digest, which includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com for the No E-Mail option where you will still be able to read messages on the group and post replies. Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com to receive individual e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 40655	From: amsterbaum	Date: 6/2/2009
Subject: Re: tank disinfection

Too late! The tank has been drained already. --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@...> wrote: > > Also, do NOT change out the filter right now either. Just leave things be > for now, with the tank's filter running while we figure out the next step. > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right > side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) > > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On > Behalf Of amsterbaum > Sent: Monday, June 01, 2009 12:17 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Subject: [AquaticLife] tank disinfection > > Unfortunately, our last remaining platy died. My daughter would like to try > fishkeeping again, but we don't know exactly what killed the fish, so we > would like to disinfect the tank and accessories. Advice? >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 40656	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 6/2/2009
Subject: Hey Mike Deneerz...

Recently, you were talking about underwater cameras and while I was looking at one of \\Steve's// recent posts about the underwater photo contest, I clicked on this link about underwater cameras... http://www.cnet.com/2300-13951_1-10000507-1.html?s=0&o=10000507&tag=mncol;pa ge Near the end of the 12 images, they get into the more expensive real underwater cameras and there is one from Sea & Sea (I think I called my old 35mm underwater camera from SubSea but it was actually Sea & Sea.) You'll also see the Ewa brand of the zip-loc bag type housing for putting your own terrestrial point & shoot or SLR's inside them to make them underwater capable. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month)

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 40657	From: greychildren	Date: 6/2/2009
Subject: New pics added

Hey guys as soon as the moderator approves my new pictures go take a look, and give me any comments or suggestions .....

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 40658	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 6/2/2009
Subject: Re: tank disinfection

It's not too late for everything else, fill the tank back up and put dechlor in it (whatever kind you normally use for the fish). That will keep the chlorine from killing your nitrifying bacteria. Amber amsterbaum wrote: > > > Too late! The tank has been drained already. > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>, "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" > <GoldLenny@...> wrote: > > > > Also, do NOT change out the filter right now either. Just leave > things be > > for now, with the tank's filter running while we figure out the next > step. > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right > > side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, > Month) > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On > > Behalf Of amsterbaum > > Sent: Monday, June 01, 2009 12:17 PM > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > Subject: [AquaticLife] tank disinfection > > > > Unfortunately, our last remaining platy died. My daughter would like > to try > > fishkeeping again, but we don't know exactly what killed the fish, so we > > would like to disinfect the tank and accessories. Advice? > > > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 40659	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 6/2/2009
Subject: Re: tank disinfection

As long as you haven't thrown away the filter cartridges you can still keep your cycle going, but you're going to have to use a dechlor product on your tap water before adding it back to the tank. You will have to "feed" the nitrifying bacteria in the filter by either buying a bottle of ammonia from your hardware store or you can do the old fashioned method and just put fish food in the tank as if you were feeding fish each day (not a lot, but about a pinch should do the trick). The fish food will break down and turn into food for the nitryfing bacteria (or so I've been told). If you've thrown everything away you're going to have to start all over again with your tank, which means you'll need to go get some ammonia from your hardware store and make sure you get an ammonia test kit at least, and then get a nitrite and a nitrate test kit as well, as you will need to test all of these every day. API has a good master test kit with all of these tests and more and you can get it sent to your local walmart for free (unless you live in Alaska) on walmart.com. As soon as you have these items let us know and we can guide you through cycling your tank without fish (which is the safest way to cycle your tank, you don't lose any fish this way). If you are impatient and want to start with fish right away you have another option, you can get Dr. Tim's One and Only nitrifying bacteria from places online (such as drsfostersmith.com), they will ship this item cold so make sure it's not really hot the day you ship it in case they leave it at your door all day when it's delivered ;). How old was the tank before the fish died? Amber Amber Berglund wrote: > > > It's not too late for everything else, fill the tank back up and put > dechlor in it (whatever kind you normally use for the fish). That will > keep the chlorine from killing your nitrifying bacteria. > > Amber > > amsterbaum wrote: > > > > > > Too late! The tank has been drained already. > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>, "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" > > <GoldLenny@...> wrote: > > > > > > Also, do NOT change out the filter right now either. Just leave > > things be > > > for now, with the tank's filter running while we figure out the next > > step. > > > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>> > > > (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the > right > > > side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, > > Month) > > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On > > > Behalf Of amsterbaum > > > Sent: Monday, June 01, 2009 12:17 PM > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > Subject: [AquaticLife] tank disinfection > > > > > > Unfortunately, our last remaining platy died. My daughter would like > > to try > > > fishkeeping again, but we don't know exactly what killed the fish, > so we > > > would like to disinfect the tank and accessories. Advice? > > > > > > > > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 40660	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 6/2/2009
Subject: Re: New pics added

Here's the link to your album and your new pics start with pic #6. http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife/photos/album/1158544771/pic/list Is this the tank that you are saying has cloudy water? Is that wood real or fake? It looks like a real root type piece of wood but I wanted to check. What is that round thing on the front glass? Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of greychildren Sent: Tuesday, June 02, 2009 5:48 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] New pics added Hey guys as soon as the moderator approves my new pictures go take a look, and give me any comments or suggestions .....

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 40661	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 6/2/2009
Subject: Re: tank disinfection

And if the gravel hasn't been cleaned completely, there will still be decaying detritus in the gravel that will provide ammonia to keep the tank cycled. We still need more history on the tank before I would advise tearing it down completely and disinfecting it. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Amber Berglund Sent: Tuesday, June 02, 2009 6:35 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: tank disinfection As long as you haven't thrown away the filter cartridges you can still keep your cycle going, but you're going to have to use a dechlor product on your tap water before adding it back to the tank. You will have to "feed" the nitrifying bacteria in the filter by either buying a bottle of ammonia from your hardware store or you can do the old fashioned method and just put fish food in the tank as if you were feeding fish each day (not a lot, but about a pinch should do the trick). The fish food will break down and turn into food for the nitryfing bacteria (or so I've been told). If you've thrown everything away you're going to have to start all over again with your tank, which means you'll need to go get some ammonia from your hardware store and make sure you get an ammonia test kit at least, and then get a nitrite and a nitrate test kit as well, as you will need to test all of these every day. API has a good master test kit with all of these tests and more and you can get it sent to your local walmart for free (unless you live in Alaska) on walmart.com. As soon as you have these items let us know and we can guide you through cycling your tank without fish (which is the safest way to cycle your tank, you don't lose any fish this way). If you are impatient and want to start with fish right away you have another option, you can get Dr. Tim's One and Only nitrifying bacteria from places online (such as drsfostersmith.com), they will ship this item cold so make sure it's not really hot the day you ship it in case they leave it at your door all day when it's delivered ;). How old was the tank before the fish died? Amber Amber Berglund wrote: > > > It's not too late for everything else, fill the tank back up and put > dechlor in it (whatever kind you normally use for the fish). That will > keep the chlorine from killing your nitrifying bacteria. > > Amber > > amsterbaum wrote: > > > > > > Too late! The tank has been drained already. > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>, "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" > > <GoldLenny@...> wrote: > > > > > > Also, do NOT change out the filter right now either. Just leave > > things be > > > for now, with the tank's filter running while we figure out the > > > next > > step. > > > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>> > > > (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the > right > > > side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, > > Month) > > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On > > > Behalf Of amsterbaum > > > Sent: Monday, June 01, 2009 12:17 PM > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > Subject: [AquaticLife] tank disinfection > > > > > > Unfortunately, our last remaining platy died. My daughter would > > > like > > to try > > > fishkeeping again, but we don't know exactly what killed the fish, > so we > > > would like to disinfect the tank and accessories. Advice?

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 40662	From: biG poppa	Date: 6/3/2009
Subject: Re: New pics added

Lenny its a aquafin decoration and the round thing u see ita a port hole its kind of cool it acts as a magnafien glass so i see the smaller fish closer --- On Tue, 6/2/09, Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@...> wrote: From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@...> Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] New pics added To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Date: Tuesday, June 2, 2009, 9:59 PM Here's the link to your album and your new pics start with pic #6. http://groups. yahoo.com/ group/AquaticLif e/photos/ album/1158544771 /pic/list Is this the tank that you are saying has cloudy water? Is that wood real or fake? It looks like a real root type piece of wood but I wanted to check. What is that round thing on the front glass? Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com [mailto:AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com] On Behalf Of greychildren Sent: Tuesday, June 02, 2009 5:48 PM To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com Subject: [AquaticLife] New pics added Hey guys as soon as the moderator approves my new pictures go take a look, and give me any comments or suggestions ..... [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 40663	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 6/3/2009
Subject: Baby Platy survived!

I'm shocked but a baby platy has managed to survive in my 125 gallon tank and not get eaten by anything and it looks like it's several weeks old at this point. It's one of my orange platy's so it also sticks out from the plants pretty well ;). It's about a quarter of an inch long including tail. I'm not sure if I should try netting it and moving it to the fry tank or if I should let it be, so far I haven't managed to keep any platy fry and raise them to adult size, not sure why but they don't make it in the fry tank with the guppy's. I have been making sure to feed the tank really well lately so that the monster catfish doesn't eat anything and it's been working for this week, but I'm pretty sure he ate one of my rams :( Bad catfish, shouldn't eat my favorite fish, it should know better ;) LOL. He's going back to the fish store for sure this week, even if they won't trade him in I'd rather take him back than keep finding fish missing. The owner is not that nice and rarely trade's fish back in :( He's also getting huge and his red tail is starting to get darker ;) Definitely a red tailed catfish I would say. He's easily doubled in size since I got him. Also a healthy eater ;) LOL. Amber

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 40664	From: ironsidem	Date: 6/3/2009
Subject: sick orange betta

Hi, we are new to the group. Thnk-you for having us! My son and I have been working on trying to get Firefish better. He lives in a 3L bowl with a small java moss covered lava rock and a small stem of floating plant. The water we use is dechlorinated and has a ratio of 1/4 teaspoon aquarium salt per gallon. There is also a small amount of gravel more just so his color stands out. We bought him the same time we bought Icefish (a turquoise betta). About a week after we got them, Firefish started to look fatter. He was making poops for us to clean up, but still we fed a bit of a boiled pea, which he took quite happily. He kept getting bigger, to the point where he looked like he swallowed a small marble. The light shines right through his abdomen. The scales are not raised. Fins are slightly clamped. (Icefish, in his own separate bowl, is healthy.) Initially we did the Epsom salt treatment for a week. Then we switched to Bettafix. After 4 days, he still looked the same. But he still did not act very sick. He would swim to the front of the bowl when we come to feed him, he still ate, he still blew bubble nests, and he still flared at Icefish. He does have mobility problems and will be found resting on the floating plant. So, while at the pet store, I mentioned him to another betta owner. She suggested Kanaplex as her betta had dropsy for 2 weeks but was fixed after a course of this medicine. I thought that once a fish looked like this, it was just a waiting period. We're trying the medicine, today is treatment day 2. Since yesterday, Firefish just stays on the bottom, but sometimes swims to the front of the bowl when we look at him, eats but very little (ie: he doesn't finish 1 crushed pellet). I have questions for anyone that can help: Has Firefish's behaviour changed because the medicine is more stressful than the last 2 treatments? Or has he just become worse the same time we're trying something new? Can I pre-mix 1/2 scoop of Kanaplex with 10L bucket of water and use that through the week with daily water changes? Is it a stable enough drug to do that with?(I don't want to guess any further by sprinkling some directly into the bowl). Does it kill plants? Will Firefish appear to be improved by week's end? If it works, how long will it take for Firefish to be himself again? Thank-you in advance for taking the time to read this, and hopefully being able to enlighten us. Firefish actually had a bit personality :), and he's so pretty too. Michelle

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 40665	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 6/3/2009
Subject: Re: sick orange betta

He could have some kind of fluid filled cyst but it could also be an internal bacterial infection causing an organ to become swollen. Can you take some photos and post them to your own online photo album or to the group's photo's section and give us links? I suspect it's a cyst of some sort but give us more history. Since you mention that he is laying on the bottom, which isn't uncommon for a Betta, although I've seen them like to lay on plant leaves or decorations rather than on the bottom but I guess it depends on what is available for them to rest on. The other thing is that it could be a swollen and/or infected swim bladder or fluid filled swim bladder which is why he's resting on the bottom. A normally operating swim bladder allows a fish to add/remove air from the bladder to give the fish neutral buoyancy, so it can just hover, or allow it to go to the surface or bottom without wasting a lot of energy swimming up and down. You also mentioned the mobility problems which lead me to this possibility of a swim bladder issue but if there is a cyst, the cyst could also be putting pressure on the swim bladder or the tubes/valves that control it, causing the swim bladder to not function properly. Yes, too many medications can be just as rough on a fish as the initial illness so you want to slow down on the meds once your current treatment has finished. Give the fish a rest with just daily PWC's (partial water changes) of water that is the same temperature and of course, dechlorinated. Fresh clean water is the best thing for our fish. What kind/brand of dechlor are you using? For fish in small containers like Betta's are often kept in, without a filter system, it's probably better to use a product like SeaChem's Prime for dechlor purposes as it will also detoxify ammonia. Of course, your live plants (GREAT THING, BTW!) will also go a long way in removing ammonia, nitrite and nitrate from the container. The BEST thing for your Bettas would be larger homes... at least 2G to 3G with a small filter system. A 5G or 10G tank is even better. Absent that, then the largest bowl/vase you can find and then adding some live plants also go a long way to making it a nicer and healthier environment. I'm not sure I would pre-mix the meds early unless the instructions say that would be OK but you could check the manufacturers website or email them for clarification. I would suspect that pre-mixing the meds would cause the meds to lose effectiveness. This is why they are in sealed packages and why most meds come in opaque packaging (brown bottles, etc.) as light, air, etc., will cause many meds to lose their effectiveness. The Kanaplex should not harm plants in normal dosing. I'm not sure that even overdosing would hurt but obviously, it's best to follow the directions. Here's a webpage article and two forum threads about a goldfish with a cyst and how the owner brought the fish to a Veterinarian first and later the owner would aspirate the cyst themselves, although I'm not recommending this for you but just wanted to show you that your situation is not unheard of. http://thegab.org/Articles/CystAspiration.html http://thegab.org/forum/viewtopic.php?t=2835 http://thegab.org/forum/viewtopic.php?t=2854 Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of ironsidem Sent: Wednesday, June 03, 2009 12:55 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] sick orange betta Hi, we are new to the group. Thnk-you for having us! My son and I have been working on trying to get Firefish better. He lives in a 3L bowl with a small java moss covered lava rock and a small stem of floating plant. The water we use is dechlorinated and has a ratio of 1/4 teaspoon aquarium salt per gallon. There is also a small amount of gravel more just so his color stands out. We bought him the same time we bought Icefish (a turquoise betta). About a week after we got them, Firefish started to look fatter. He was making poops for us to clean up, but still we fed a bit of a boiled pea, which he took quite happily. He kept getting bigger, to the point where he looked like he swallowed a small marble. The light shines right through his abdomen. The scales are not raised. Fins are slightly clamped. (Icefish, in his own separate bowl, is healthy.) Initially we did the Epsom salt treatment for a week. Then we switched to Bettafix. After 4 days, he still looked the same. But he still did not act very sick. He would swim to the front of the bowl when we come to feed him, he still ate, he still blew bubble nests, and he still flared at Icefish. He does have mobility problems and will be found resting on the floating plant. So, while at the pet store, I mentioned him to another betta owner. She suggested Kanaplex as her betta had dropsy for 2 weeks but was fixed after a course of this medicine. I thought that once a fish looked like this, it was just a waiting period. We're trying the medicine, today is treatment day 2. Since yesterday, Firefish just stays on the bottom, but sometimes swims to the front of the bowl when we look at him, eats but very little (ie: he doesn't finish 1 crushed pellet). I have questions for anyone that can help: Has Firefish's behaviour changed because the medicine is more stressful than the last 2 treatments? Or has he just become worse the same time we're trying something new? Can I pre-mix 1/2 scoop of Kanaplex with 10L bucket of water and use that through the week with daily water changes? Is it a stable enough drug to do that with?(I don't want to guess any further by sprinkling some directly into the bowl). Does it kill plants? Will Firefish appear to be improved by week's end? If it works, how long will it take for Firefish to be himself again? Thank-you in advance for taking the time to read this, and hopefully being able to enlighten us. Firefish actually had a bit personality :), and he's so pretty too. Michelle

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 40666	From: pkr772	Date: 6/3/2009
Subject: Tank cleaning a planted aquarium

Hi, everyone! I have a pretty silly question. I recently purchased hornwort, anacharis, and ludwigia for my aquarium. I was given directions to plant them directly into my gravel. Now I'm wondering what is the safest way to clean my tank. Will the plants survive if I disturb them while vacuuming the gravel. Any advice? My after thought was maybe I should have planted them in small pots. Is terra cotta considered safe? Thanks!!

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 40667	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 6/3/2009
Subject: Re: Baby Platy survived!

You know. You should also go and buy some $25/lb. filet mignon to feed the stray cats around your condos.... since you like feeding expensive foods to strays. ;-) I can't believe you still have that dang catfish. It seems like it has been a couple of months since you came to the conclusion that it's a red-tailed catfish. You should have brought it back immediately and MADE that dang fish store owner take it back. He shouldn't be selling fish like that in the first place. If the owner won't take it back, find out where he lives and then put the head of the catfish in his bed... ala the horse head in the bed in "The Godfather". That will send him a message. ;-) Or you could keep the catfish and keep feeding him all your other fish till you have a BIG catfish in your 125G and then you can work on turning your spare bedroom into a built-in tank to house the red-tailed catfish to full size. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Amber Berglund Sent: Wednesday, June 03, 2009 4:42 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Baby Platy survived! I'm shocked but a baby platy has managed to survive in my 125 gallon tank and not get eaten by anything and it looks like it's several weeks old at this point. It's one of my orange platy's so it also sticks out from the plants pretty well ;). It's about a quarter of an inch long including tail. I'm not sure if I should try netting it and moving it to the fry tank or if I should let it be, so far I haven't managed to keep any platy fry and raise them to adult size, not sure why but they don't make it in the fry tank with the guppy's. I have been making sure to feed the tank really well lately so that the monster catfish doesn't eat anything and it's been working for this week, but I'm pretty sure he ate one of my rams :( Bad catfish, shouldn't eat my favorite fish, it should know better ;) LOL. He's going back to the fish store for sure this week, even if they won't trade him in I'd rather take him back than keep finding fish missing. The owner is not that nice and rarely trade's fish back in :( He's also getting huge and his red tail is starting to get darker ;) Definitely a red tailed catfish I would say. He's easily doubled in size since I got him. Also a healthy eater ;) LOL. Amber

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 40668	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 6/3/2009
Subject: Re: Baby Platy survived!

I tried talking to the LFS worker and she said my chances of getting the catfish traded in are slim unless the owner is feeling really nice that day. He's a huge grump so I really don't feel like trying to argue with him on whether or not he should be selling the fish in town. I've been working so darn much since this summer season started the beginning of may that I just haven't had chance to get the guy netted and brought back out to the LFS. I really don't enjoy feeding him my expensive fish at all ;) If the LFS doesn't take him back is it bad to think about releasing him into one of our freshwater lakes? ;) LOL, that's just a joke I'll make the LFS take him back for free if I have to ;) Amber Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > > > You know. You should also go and buy some $25/lb. filet mignon to feed the > stray cats around your condos.... since you like feeding expensive > foods to > strays. ;-) > > I can't believe you still have that dang catfish. It seems like it has > been > a couple of months since you came to the conclusion that it's a red-tailed > catfish. You should have brought it back immediately and MADE that dang > fish store owner take it back. He shouldn't be selling fish like that in > the first place. > > If the owner won't take it back, find out where he lives and then put the > head of the catfish in his bed... ala the horse head in the bed in "The > Godfather". That will send him a message. ;-) > > Or you could keep the catfish and keep feeding him all your other fish > till > you have a BIG catfish in your 125G and then you can work on turning your > spare bedroom into a built-in tank to house the red-tailed catfish to full > size. > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right > side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On > Behalf Of Amber Berglund > Sent: Wednesday, June 03, 2009 4:42 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Subject: [AquaticLife] Baby Platy survived! > > I'm shocked but a baby platy has managed to survive in my 125 gallon tank > and not get eaten by anything and it looks like it's several weeks old at > this point. It's one of my orange platy's so it also sticks out from the > plants pretty well ;). It's about a quarter of an inch long including > tail. > I'm not sure if I should try netting it and moving it to the fry tank > or if > I should let it be, so far I haven't managed to keep any platy fry and > raise > them to adult size, not sure why but they don't make it in the fry > tank with > the guppy's. I have been making sure to feed the tank really well > lately so > that the monster catfish doesn't eat anything and it's been working > for this > week, but I'm pretty sure he ate one of my rams :( Bad catfish, shouldn't > eat my favorite fish, it should know better ;) LOL. > > He's going back to the fish store for sure this week, even if they won't > trade him in I'd rather take him back than keep finding fish missing. > The owner is not that nice and rarely trade's fish back in :( He's also > getting huge and his red tail is starting to get darker ;) Definitely > a red > tailed catfish I would say. He's easily doubled in size since I got him. > Also a healthy eater ;) LOL. > > Amber > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 40669	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 6/3/2009
Subject: Re: Tank cleaning a planted aquarium

I use terra cotta pots to plant my plants in because they seem to do better in soil than they do in gravel for me. I put soil in the bottom of the pot (soil that has aired out to release any gasses), then put in the plant and gently cover the top part of dirt with gravel to keep the soil from being disturbed by fish. So Far I've had pretty good luck doing this but this is more for rooted plants. If you have just generic gravel some plants may not do as well as easy to grow plants. The plants should survive if you disturb them a little bit, but try not to vacuum them up when you're cleaning the gravel, that's the problem I have if the plants aren't weighted down and your hose has too much suction when you're cleaning the gravel ;) I've sucked up my fair share of plants and when they come out the end of my python gravel cleaner they're no longer as "happy" looking ;) LOL. Amber pkr772 wrote: > > > Hi, everyone! I have a pretty silly question. I recently purchased > hornwort, anacharis, and ludwigia for my aquarium. I was given > directions to plant them directly into my gravel. Now I'm wondering > what is the safest way to clean my tank. Will the plants survive if I > disturb them while vacuuming the gravel. Any advice? My after thought > was maybe I should have planted them in small pots. Is terra cotta > considered safe? Thanks!! > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 40670	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 6/3/2009
Subject: Re: Tank cleaning a planted aquarium

Little terra cotta or clay pots work fine. That's what I have ALL of my plants in for my goldfish tank. Other tanks do OK with them planted in the gravel. As far as vacuuming the gravel, just vacuum the surface of the gravel around the plants, giving them a few inches around the plants before pushing the siphon tube any deeper. The good thing with anacharis http://www.plantedtank.net/forums/myplants/64-Anacharis_Egeria_densa.html and hornwort http://www.plantedtank.net/forums/myplants/47-Tropical_Hornwort_Ceratophyllu m_submersum.html is that they will both suck up nutrients without having to be planted and they actually seem to do better as floating plants... at least for me. As floaters, they get more light and CO2 (from the air above the water) and still get to suck up nutrients from the water column. Hornwort doesn't root at all but Anacharis will form long stringer type roots that will "search" for a place to anchor the stalks. There are a couple of species of Anacharis and Hornwort so if the above two links are not to your species, search around on that site for your species. As far as the ludwigia, a search on PlantedTank.net shows quite a few species so go here http://www.plantedtank.net/forums/myPlants.php?do=search and do a search for ludwigia and let us know which species you have. I came up with 10 hits for plant profiles containing the name ludwigia. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of pkr772 Sent: Wednesday, June 03, 2009 7:33 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Tank cleaning a planted aquarium Hi, everyone! I have a pretty silly question. I recently purchased hornwort, anacharis, and ludwigia for my aquarium. I was given directions to plant them directly into my gravel. Now I'm wondering what is the safest way to clean my tank. Will the plants survive if I disturb them while vacuuming the gravel. Any advice? My after thought was maybe I should have planted them in small pots. Is terra cotta considered safe? Thanks!!

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 40671	From: Raymond Wetzel	Date: 6/4/2009
Subject: Re: Tank cleaning a planted aquarium

Very surprising that no one caught this yet! If your local fish store gave you directions on how to "plant" Hornwort "directly into" your gravel, this would indicate that this personel does not know what he or she is talking about as Hornwort does not have a root system and is to be treated as a floating plant. As for the others, I not really sure by what you mean by "disturbing" them, but if you constantly uproot these plants every time you vacuum the gravel they will never get established . You need to vacuum around them, and as they take root, vacuum their area lightly (don't deep-clean their specific area). Ray --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "pkr772" <tkr772@...> wrote: > > Hi, everyone! I have a pretty silly question. I recently purchased hornwort, anacharis, and ludwigia for my aquarium. I was given directions to plant them directly into my gravel. Now I'm wondering what is the safest way to clean my tank. Will the plants survive if I disturb them while vacuuming the gravel. Any advice? My after thought was maybe I should have planted them in small pots. Is terra cotta considered safe? Thanks!! >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 40672	From: jett07002	Date: 6/4/2009
Subject: Re: Tank cleaning a planted aquarium

Thank you, Ray. I agree and, once again, join with you in having to warn about what almost everyone that's been with this "club" a while and a11 seasoned aquarists know. You can almost always get misinformation from the LFS. It's a shame, but it's true. Most places can not afford to pay much, and so they get people to clean the tanks, etc. and tend to customers. The tending to customers is where we get into trouble. These may be well meaning people, but they are put on the spot when they can not give the correct answer to a question they feel they are supposed to know. If the customer does not know any better, they make the answer up. Not putting them down for it -- or maybe I am --, cause they are causing people to spend money that many of them find it hard to come by. But, hey, when I was young I knew everything too!! Oh well, that's old hat. We went over this many, many times. Back to the subject, as everyone has already said, I give a very light cleaning to the gravel around the rooted plants. When the rooted plants really take hold, you will be surprised at the way they can defy the vacuum. I once had an aquarium full of amazon sword plants that I started with only two small plants. I left the tank with only the two figuring I would give them enough room to grow. Well, they grew alright! Runners all over and a root system you would not believe. After the root system is established, you do not have to worry too much about cleaning the gravel since the plants will use a lot of that fish waste as food. And, please! I am NOT saying you do not have to clean the tank anymore. PWCs and light vacuuming around the plants should still be done. joe t --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Raymond Wetzel" <sevenspringss@...> wrote: > > Very surprising that no one caught this yet! If your local fish store gave you directions on how to "plant" Hornwort "directly into" your gravel, this would indicate that this personel does not know what he or she is talking about as Hornwort does not have a root system and is to be treated as a floating plant. As for the others, I not really sure by what you mean by "disturbing" them, but if you constantly uproot these plants every time you vacuum the gravel they will never get established . You need to vacuum around them, and as they take root, vacuum their area lightly (don't deep-clean their specific area). Ray

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 40673	From: bruce cohen	Date: 6/4/2009
Subject: flatworms

i am not able to use flatworm exit do to that i have several brittle stars and encrusting sponges that would die if this was used and the tank is a nano cube so that makes it alot harder to get rid of them does any one have any ideas?

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 40674	From: bruce cohen	Date: 6/5/2009
Subject: flatworms in a nano cube

help i cant get rid of the flatworms using flatworm exit as their are other sealife that would die from it and i am looking for another way to get rid of them please let me know of any thanks

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 40675	From: Rodrigues Gilbert	Date: 6/5/2009
Subject: Hornwort

Thanks Ray, I agree with you also and like to inject my own observations. Hornwort is a great plant to have with a tank of plant eating fish since the hard leaves doesn't taste good to these fish. Hornwort is known to be a floating plant that is great to use in a nursery tank that fry are raised since it offers shelter and hiding places for them.  Hornwort can be buried in the gravel or subsrate but, when doing this the plant should be bunched and secured with some kind of weight (plant lead) to start. I do recommend a a deep subsrate to help with the anchoring of the plant versus a shallow substrate since the plant will lift out of the shallow planting. They do develop a kind of root like organ called rhizoids. The stems will branch off and nice thickets but, they are sensitive and breaks off easily and many of these pieces will become plants of their own as they float at the surface. Hornwort is a easy plant to care for when provided with the right lighting conditions. They prefer medium to bright light. If this is not met, it will "fall apart" and become lanky and not very appealing. These pants are ideal for the pond and can thrive to the point of becoming a pest. I have them in my pond and every month I have to thin them out just so my fish has room to swim in! Hornwort can be kept in many different aquarium environment such as coldwater to tropical aquariums. However, I've noticed they do better in the pond and becomes thick and lush and beautiful compared to the aquarium. Like I said it, can be anchored in the aquarium but it prefers to be floating since, it is classified as a floating plant. just a note, like all aquarium plants it does not like too much salt in the water.   It is a great aquarium plant for all levels of experience. It is also readily available at pet shops and on-line.   Gilbert Rodrigues  [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 40676	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 6/5/2009
Subject: Re: flatworms in a nano cube

Is this a SW or FW tank? Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of bruce cohen Sent: Friday, June 05, 2009 1:49 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] flatworms in a nano cube help i cant get rid of the flatworms using flatworm exit as their are other sealife that would die from it and i am looking for another way to get rid of them please let me know of any thanks

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 40677	From: biG poppa	Date: 6/5/2009
Subject: Re: flatworms in a nano cube

i believe sw Lenny --- On Fri, 6/5/09, Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@...> wrote: From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@...> Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] flatworms in a nano cube To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Date: Friday, June 5, 2009, 8:04 PM Is this a SW or FW tank? Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com [mailto:AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com] On Behalf Of bruce cohen Sent: Friday, June 05, 2009 1:49 PM To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com Subject: [AquaticLife] flatworms in a nano cube help i cant get rid of the flatworms using flatworm exit as their are other sealife that would die from it and i am looking for another way to get rid of them please let me know of any thanks [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 40678	From: bruce cohen	Date: 6/6/2009
Subject: Re: flatworms in a nano cube

saltwater  tank with corals and sponges as well as tube worms --- On Fri, 6/5/09, Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@...> wrote: From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@...> Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] flatworms in a nano cube To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Date: Friday, June 5, 2009, 5:04 PM Is this a SW or FW tank? Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com [mailto:AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com] On Behalf Of bruce cohen Sent: Friday, June 05, 2009 1:49 PM To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com Subject: [AquaticLife] flatworms in a nano cube help i cant get rid of the flatworms using flatworm exit as their are other sealife that would die from it and i am looking for another way to get rid of them please let me know of any thanks [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 40679	From: Courtland Jacob	Date: 6/6/2009
Subject: python

anyone use one of these vacs? do they work? is it safe to use considering that you can't add conditioner to the water you are adding, and that being said, when do you add water conditioner when using it?

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 40680	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 6/6/2009
Subject: Re: python

There are quite a number of people using them, and they do work. I add my conditioning product to the water in the tank prior to filling it with the replacement water. \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Courtland Jacob Sent: Saturday, June 06, 2009 6:33 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] python anyone use one of these vacs? do they work? is it safe to use considering that you can't add conditioner to the water you are adding, and that being said, when do you add water conditioner when using it?

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 40681	From: Courtland Jacob	Date: 6/6/2009
Subject: Re: python

so the conditioner will still work if you add it to the tank first? I didn't know that, i would save a lot of conditioner if i had been doing that the whole time --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Steve Szabo" <steve@...> wrote: > > There are quite a number of people using them, and they do work. I add > my conditioning product to the water in the tank prior to filling it > with the replacement water. > > \\Steve// > > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] > On Behalf Of Courtland Jacob > Sent: Saturday, June 06, 2009 6:33 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Subject: [AquaticLife] python > > anyone use one of these vacs? do they work? is it safe to use > considering that you can't add conditioner to the water you are adding, > and that being said, when do you add water conditioner when using it? >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 40682	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 6/6/2009
Subject: Re: python

That's how I do it too. Just add the amount of dechlor to treat the amount of water you will be adding and then start refilling. I do refill my tanks slowly in case I don't have the temperature exact. I use my finger to touch the water coming out the filter and the water coming out the Python to make sure they are pretty close and then adjust the cold/hot water on the faucet and check again in a minute. Most people's fingers can tell the difference within 1-2F when going back and forth between the two water supplies and with a 25% PWC, that would only change the tank's temperature by 0.5F which is an acceptable change in temperature. More importantly, and why I slowly refill my tanks is that if your tap water parameters are a LOT different than the tank's water parameters, you want to give the fish a chance to acclimate to the changing parameters. The only thing I have ever complained about with the Python, including writing them and sending them pictures, is a weak spot in the plastic Venturi. Maybe I'm just rough on them but I've had three of them break over the years and Python doesn't sell just that part so you have to buy the whole faucet valve to fix it. Since going through three of them, I reinforce the break point on my new one before putting it into use. Here's a picture of where they have broken for me in the past. http://pets.webshots.com/album/568640862iqetMy (Python Album) The black twist tie that I am using as a pointer shows where the Venturi splits and I tried gluing this one with some 2-part epoxy but it didn't hold. Now I beef up that area with epoxy before putting it into use and this last one hasn't broken on me yet. http://pets.webshots.com/photo/2880346060070613611MenPMc http://pets.webshots.com/photo/2982251640070613611oQMiVO http://pets.webshots.com/photo/2064594030070613611bCFkVI I've asked Python to come out with a brass faucet valve or at least a brass Venturi, but to no avail. Entire faucet valves can also be purchased from Water Bed supply places and I understand that Wal-Mart sells the water bed faucet valves which are the same exact thing as the Python's... and supposedly much less expensive. I'll know for certain if my current Venturi ever breaks again. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Steve Szabo Sent: Saturday, June 06, 2009 5:50 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] python There are quite a number of people using them, and they do work. I add my conditioning product to the water in the tank prior to filling it with the replacement water. \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Courtland Jacob Sent: Saturday, June 06, 2009 6:33 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] python anyone use one of these vacs? do they work? is it safe to use considering that you can't add conditioner to the water you are adding, and that being said, when do you add water conditioner when using it?

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 40683	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 6/6/2009
Subject: Re: python

How would you save a lot of conditioner, whether you add it first or during? Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Courtland Jacob Sent: Saturday, June 06, 2009 5:56 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: python so the conditioner will still work if you add it to the tank first? I didn't know that, i would save a lot of conditioner if i had been doing that the whole time --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Steve Szabo" <steve@...> wrote: > > There are quite a number of people using them, and they do work. I add > my conditioning product to the water in the tank prior to filling it > with the replacement water. > > \\Steve// > > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] > On Behalf Of Courtland Jacob > Sent: Saturday, June 06, 2009 6:33 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Subject: [AquaticLife] python > > anyone use one of these vacs? do they work? is it safe to use > considering that you can't add conditioner to the water you are > adding, and that being said, when do you add water conditioner when using it? >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 40684	From: Courtland Jacob	Date: 6/6/2009
Subject: Re: python

the biggest problem i would have is finding a spout close enough, then again i could always vacuum as i do now and then just use a hose to refill my tank rather than filling jugs, save money lol --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@...> wrote: > > That's how I do it too. Just add the amount of dechlor to treat the amount > of water you will be adding and then start refilling. I do refill my tanks > slowly in case I don't have the temperature exact. I use my finger to touch > the water coming out the filter and the water coming out the Python to make > sure they are pretty close and then adjust the cold/hot water on the faucet > and check again in a minute. Most people's fingers can tell the difference > within 1-2F when going back and forth between the two water supplies and > with a 25% PWC, that would only change the tank's temperature by 0.5F which > is an acceptable change in temperature. More importantly, and why I slowly > refill my tanks is that if your tap water parameters are a LOT different > than the tank's water parameters, you want to give the fish a chance to > acclimate to the changing parameters. > > The only thing I have ever complained about with the Python, including > writing them and sending them pictures, is a weak spot in the plastic > Venturi. Maybe I'm just rough on them but I've had three of them break over > the years and Python doesn't sell just that part so you have to buy the > whole faucet valve to fix it. Since going through three of them, I > reinforce the break point on my new one before putting it into use. Here's > a picture of where they have broken for me in the past. > > http://pets.webshots.com/album/568640862iqetMy (Python Album) > > The black twist tie that I am using as a pointer shows where the Venturi > splits and I tried gluing this one with some 2-part epoxy but it didn't > hold. Now I beef up that area with epoxy before putting it into use and > this last one hasn't broken on me yet. > > http://pets.webshots.com/photo/2880346060070613611MenPMc > > http://pets.webshots.com/photo/2982251640070613611oQMiVO > > http://pets.webshots.com/photo/2064594030070613611bCFkVI > > I've asked Python to come out with a brass faucet valve or at least a brass > Venturi, but to no avail. Entire faucet valves can also be purchased from > Water Bed supply places and I understand that Wal-Mart sells the water bed > faucet valves which are the same exact thing as the Python's... and > supposedly much less expensive. I'll know for certain if my current Venturi > ever breaks again. > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right > side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) > > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On > Behalf Of Steve Szabo > Sent: Saturday, June 06, 2009 5:50 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] python > > There are quite a number of people using them, and they do work. I add my > conditioning product to the water in the tank prior to filling it with the > replacement water. > > \\Steve// > > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] > On Behalf Of Courtland Jacob > Sent: Saturday, June 06, 2009 6:33 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Subject: [AquaticLife] python > > anyone use one of these vacs? do they work? is it safe to use considering > that you can't add conditioner to the water you are adding, and that being > said, when do you add water conditioner when using it? >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 40685	From: Courtland Jacob	Date: 6/6/2009
Subject: Re: python

because with mine a capful treats about 10 gallons, but i use 5 gallon jugs and just to be safe i use a capful in each, so i tend to use twice as much as needed --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@...> wrote: > > How would you save a lot of conditioner, whether you add it first or during? > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right > side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) > > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On > Behalf Of Courtland Jacob > Sent: Saturday, June 06, 2009 5:56 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: python > > so the conditioner will still work if you add it to the tank first? I didn't > know that, i would save a lot of conditioner if i had been doing that the > whole time > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Steve Szabo" <steve@> wrote: > > > > There are quite a number of people using them, and they do work. I add > > my conditioning product to the water in the tank prior to filling it > > with the replacement water. > > > > \\Steve// > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] > > On Behalf Of Courtland Jacob > > Sent: Saturday, June 06, 2009 6:33 PM > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > Subject: [AquaticLife] python > > > > anyone use one of these vacs? do they work? is it safe to use > > considering that you can't add conditioner to the water you are > > adding, and that being said, when do you add water conditioner when using > it? > > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 40686	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 6/6/2009
Subject: Re: python

It's not good to constantly overdose the dechlor. Your tank will eventually build up a very high level of the dechlor chemicals (usually Sodium Thiosulfate and EDTA). For example, lets use 1 capful and a 10G tank for simplicity. If you fill the tank to start with so it has 10G of water and 1 capful of chemical. Then on week 1, you do a 50% PWC (higher than recommended but being used for simplicity), so you would be removing 50% of the water and 50% of the chemical but then you add back 5G of water and 1 capful of chemical, where you should have only used 1/2 capful. The chemical level is now at 150% of recommended level. The next week, week 2, you do a 50% PWC, removing 1/2 the water and 1/2 the chemical (1/2 of 150%) with the water but then you replace the 5G of water and add another full capful dose. You are now up to 175% of the recommended chemical level. Week 3, another 50% PWC so you remove 5G of water and 1/2 of 175% (87.5%) but then replace the 5G of water and a full capful dose of chemical so the you are now up to 187.5% of the recommended dosage. As mentioned in paragraph one, many of the chemicals used in dechlor products are mostly salts and salts do not evaporate when the water in our tanks evaporate. Obviously, if you keep doing this week after week after week, eventually you will have a very high overdose of the chemical. Many dechlors are designed for some overdosing and certain dechlors like Prime (I think) say it is OK to overdose by up to 10X if there is a severe ammonia problem in the tank.... but this should be a short term treatment, not a permanent level. Remember the fish have to live in this water full time so their kidneys and other organs (osmoregulatory system) would be having to work much harder to constantly filter out these pollutants from their water. This is similar to the situation with folks that add salt to their aquariums.. which I do not recommend for freshwater fish, except for when treating an illness or for fish that need some added salt in their water. Since the salt never evaporates, if they do not top off their tanks first, before starting a PWC, then they will eventually build up a much higher level of salt in the tank. For example, in a 10G tank, if there is 1G of evaporation and then the person is planning on doing a 30% PWC (3G), so they siphon out the water down to the mark on the tank for 3G (which means they only removed 2G) and then when preparing the new 3G of water, they add their preferred salt dosage to the 3G of water and add that to the tank... but since 1G of water was initially missing, they really only siphoned out another 2G of salty water but then added back 3G of salty water. This results in a 10% increase in the salinity level. If they keep doing this every week, eventually the salinity level will become much higher, meaning the fish's osmoregulatory system will have to work that much harder to keep things in balance. The solution, if one suspects they have been inadvertently overdosing their tank with any additive (dechlor, salt, etc.), is to START doing accurate PWC's from now on and add accurate doses of chemicals. The overdose level will slowly lower back down to normal, just like it slowly rose during the inadvertent overdosing period. Within a short period of time (4-5 PWC's) the overdosed level will be back to near normal. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Courtland Jacob Sent: Saturday, June 06, 2009 9:37 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: python because with mine a capful treats about 10 gallons, but i use 5 gallon jugs and just to be safe i use a capful in each, so i tend to use twice as much as needed --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@...> wrote: > > How would you save a lot of conditioner, whether you add it first or during? > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles > referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically > under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) > > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] > On Behalf Of Courtland Jacob > Sent: Saturday, June 06, 2009 5:56 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: python > > so the conditioner will still work if you add it to the tank first? I > didn't know that, i would save a lot of conditioner if i had been > doing that the whole time > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Steve Szabo" <steve@> wrote: > > > > There are quite a number of people using them, and they do work. I > > add my conditioning product to the water in the tank prior to > > filling it with the replacement water. > > > > \\Steve// > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] > > On Behalf Of Courtland Jacob > > Sent: Saturday, June 06, 2009 6:33 PM > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > Subject: [AquaticLife] python > > > > anyone use one of these vacs? do they work? is it safe to use > > considering that you can't add conditioner to the water you are > > adding, and that being said, when do you add water conditioner when > > using > it?

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 40687	From: turbocoupe76	Date: 6/7/2009
Subject: Hello everyone, long time no see

I have a question that seems to baffle me. I recently switched my tanks around. I put my 4 goldfish in one of my 55g and the 2 Koi in another 55g. They were all in the 150g. The 2 Koi are being sold so the 55 is their temp home. Both 55g are now cold water tanks. The tropical fish that where in both 55gs are now together in the 150g. All tanks have been runnning since last year with no major problems.. until now I took out the ornaments from the 55s and put them all in the 150. the 55s are bare with gravel. I left the filters the way they are except on the 150 which now has one established Eheim 2227, one established Emperor 400 and one new emperor 400 but i used the media from the old filter in the removable cartridges. I added silk plants instead of the plastic ones that where there originally. The tank is kept at 76*-77*. I have about 15 tropical fish in the tank. Mostly gouramis, tetras and barbs. The tank is understocked. I did this about 3 weeks ago. Ive been doing PWCs every week. The coldwater tanks are fine. The tropical tank had a high ammonia level 8ppm and nitrate level 60ppm. I noticed this because all my snalls started dying off quickly so i knew something was wrong. I did several water changes since Friday and now Im still at 2-3ppm with ammonia.The fish appear fine and arent lethargic in anyway. no swelling or redness around the gills either. I broke down and bought 2 bottles of refridgerated Tetra safestart/biospira (whatever you want to call it now). I added that on saturday and today (sunday) the ammonia is still at 2-3ppm but the nitrates are at 10ppm. I rinsed out the eheim media with tank water and no change . I usually rinse the media every 4 weeks. I thought they were the problem for my high nitrates. The only addition to my fish tank room was 3 cages. two cages have 9 rats in them and 1 cage has a pigeon in it. The girl who owns them seems to change there bedding alot. It has a strong scent of ammonia. Can this be giving me a problem?? What did I do wrong in switching all the tanks around and what should i contibue to do. since friday ive changed about 100g of water. Thanks Tom

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 40688	From: turbocoupe76	Date: 6/7/2009
Subject: Re: python

I use a syringe (without the needle) when dosing my tanks with chemicals. Its alot more accurate than the caps on the chemical bottles Plus you tend to use less. --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Courtland Jacob" <courtland_jacob@...> wrote: > > because with mine a capful treats about 10 gallons, but i use 5 gallon jugs and just to be safe i use a capful in each, so i tend to use twice as much as needed >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 40689	From: turbocoupe76	Date: 6/7/2009
Subject: Re: python

whats the best way to figure out how much water is taken out of a tank. I have 1 150g tank so if i take out 40 gallons or 60 gallons with the python it still looks realitivly the same. to correctly dose the water and get the exact temp, I fill a 10 gallon tank thats located above my 150 and syphon it into the tank. This is a slow and long proccess If i could just fill the tank wiht the python it would make life easier. any ideas?? Thanks Tom --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Steve Szabo" <steve@...> wrote: > > There are quite a number of people using them, and they do work. I add > my conditioning product to the water in the tank prior to filling it > with the replacement water. > > \\Steve// > > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] > On Behalf Of Courtland Jacob > Sent: Saturday, June 06, 2009 6:33 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Subject: [AquaticLife] python > > anyone use one of these vacs? do they work? is it safe to use > considering that you can't add conditioner to the water you are adding, > and that being said, when do you add water conditioner when using it? >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 40690	From: turbocoupe76	Date: 6/7/2009
Subject: Re: python

PS I downloaded a chart that breaksdown measurments (ie OZ to cups) Its very handy and there are a million charts available on most fish sites --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "turbocoupe76" <turbocoupe76@...> wrote: > > I use a syringe (without the needle) when dosing my tanks with chemicals. Its alot more accurate than the caps on the chemical bottles > Plus you tend to use less. > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Courtland Jacob" <courtland_jacob@> wrote: > > > > because with mine a capful treats about 10 gallons, but i use 5 gallon jugs and just to be safe i use a capful in each, so i tend to use twice as much as needed > > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 40691	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 6/7/2009
Subject: Re: Hello everyone, long time no see

I would try some fresh reagents for your ammonia test kit. If the fish are apparently not affected, behaving normally, no physical problems noted, then I'd suspect the test kit. Alternatively, if you LFS offers testing, take some water down to them and have them test the ammonia level. The snails dying may be a source for the ammonia rather than the other way around. \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of turbocoupe76 Sent: Sunday, June 07, 2009 10:04 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Hello everyone, long time no see I have a question that seems to baffle me. I recently switched my tanks around. I put my 4 goldfish in one of my 55g and the 2 Koi in another 55g. They were all in the 150g. The 2 Koi are being sold so the 55 is their temp home. Both 55g are now cold water tanks. The tropical fish that where in both 55gs are now together in the 150g. All tanks have been runnning since last year with no major problems.. until now I took out the ornaments from the 55s and put them all in the 150. the 55s are bare with gravel. I left the filters the way they are except on the 150 which now has one established Eheim 2227, one established Emperor 400 and one new emperor 400 but i used the media from the old filter in the removable cartridges. I added silk plants instead of the plastic ones that where there originally. The tank is kept at 76*-77*. I have about 15 tropical fish in the tank. Mostly gouramis, tetras and barbs. The tank is understocked. I did this about 3 weeks ago. Ive been doing PWCs every week. The coldwater tanks are fine. The tropical tank had a high ammonia level 8ppm and nitrate level 60ppm. I noticed this because all my snalls started dying off quickly so i knew something was wrong. I did several water changes since Friday and now Im still at 2-3ppm with ammonia.The fish appear fine and arent lethargic in anyway. no swelling or redness around the gills either. I broke down and bought 2 bottles of refridgerated Tetra safestart/biospira (whatever you want to call it now). I added that on saturday and today (sunday) the ammonia is still at 2-3ppm but the nitrates are at 10ppm. I rinsed out the eheim media with tank water and no change . I usually rinse the media every 4 weeks. I thought they were the problem for my high nitrates. The only addition to my fish tank room was 3 cages. two cages have 9 rats in them and 1 cage has a pigeon in it. The girl who owns them seems to change there bedding alot. It has a strong scent of ammonia. Can this be giving me a problem?? What did I do wrong in switching all the tanks around and what should i contibue to do. since friday ive changed about 100g of water. Thanks Tom

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 40692	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 6/7/2009
Subject: Re: python

I usually just measure the tank itself, using a height measurement to the normal fill mark of the water, and subtracting for the glass. This gives you a fairly accurate rough measurement of the water contained since it does not account for the space taken up by the substrate and other decor, but it also does not include the water contained within the filtering system. Once you have the measurements, just do the calculations (HLW/231=gallons where HWL are in inches). What I used to do was to then mark my tanks with a marker to designate 10, 25, 33, and 59% water change levels so I had a fairly accurate measurement rather than just eyeballing it and say, well, that's 10% or whatever I was looking for. \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of turbocoupe76 Sent: Sunday, June 07, 2009 10:17 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: python whats the best way to figure out how much water is taken out of a tank. I have 1 150g tank so if i take out 40 gallons or 60 gallons with the python it still looks realitivly the same. to correctly dose the water and get the exact temp, I fill a 10 gallon tank thats located above my 150 and syphon it into the tank. This is a slow and long proccess If i could just fill the tank wiht the python it would make life easier. any ideas?? Thanks Tom --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Steve Szabo" <steve@...> wrote: > > There are quite a number of people using them, and they do work. I add > my conditioning product to the water in the tank prior to filling it > with the replacement water. > > \\Steve// > > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] > On Behalf Of Courtland Jacob > Sent: Saturday, June 06, 2009 6:33 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Subject: [AquaticLife] python > > anyone use one of these vacs? do they work? is it safe to use > considering that you can't add conditioner to the water you are adding, > and that being said, when do you add water conditioner when using it? > ------------------------------------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the home page. Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com to receive the digest, which includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com for the No E-Mail option where you will still be able to read messages on the group and post replies. Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com to receive individual e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 40693	From: turbocoupe76	Date: 6/7/2009
Subject: Re: Hello everyone, long time no see

Nope bought a new API drop test kit.. same level of ammonia --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Steve Szabo" <steve@...> wrote: > > I would try some fresh reagents for your ammonia test kit. If the fish > are apparently not affected, behaving normally, no physical problems > noted, then I'd suspect the test kit. Alternatively, if you LFS offers > testing, take some water down to them and have them test the ammonia > level. > > The snails dying may be a source for the ammonia rather than the other > way around. > > \\Steve// > > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] > On Behalf Of turbocoupe76 > Sent: Sunday, June 07, 2009 10:04 AM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Subject: [AquaticLife] Hello everyone, long time no see > > I have a question that seems to baffle me. I recently switched my tanks > around. I put my 4 goldfish in one of my 55g and the 2 Koi in another > 55g. They were all in the 150g. The 2 Koi are being sold so the 55 is > their temp home. Both 55g are now cold water tanks. The tropical fish > that where in both 55gs are now together in the 150g. All tanks have > been runnning since last year with no major problems.. until now > I took out the ornaments from the 55s and put them all in the 150. the > 55s are bare with gravel. I left the filters the way they are except on > the 150 which now has one established Eheim 2227, one established > Emperor 400 and one new emperor 400 but i used the media from the old > filter in the removable cartridges. I added silk plants instead of the > plastic ones that where there originally. The tank is kept at 76*-77*. > I have about 15 tropical fish in the tank. Mostly gouramis, tetras and > barbs. The tank is understocked. > > I did this about 3 weeks ago. Ive been doing PWCs every week. The > coldwater tanks are fine. The tropical tank had a high ammonia level > 8ppm and nitrate level 60ppm. I noticed this because all my snalls > started dying off quickly so i knew something was wrong. I did several > water changes since Friday and now Im still at 2-3ppm with ammonia.The > fish appear fine and arent lethargic in anyway. no swelling or redness > around the gills either. I broke down and bought 2 bottles of > refridgerated Tetra safestart/biospira (whatever you want to call it > now). I added that on saturday and today (sunday) the ammonia is still > at 2-3ppm but the nitrates are at 10ppm. I rinsed out the eheim media > with tank water and no change . I usually rinse the media every 4 weeks. > I thought they were the problem for my high nitrates. > > The only addition to my fish tank room was 3 cages. two cages have 9 > rats in them and 1 cage has a pigeon in it. The girl who owns them seems > to change there bedding alot. It has a strong scent of ammonia. > Can this be giving me a problem?? > > What did I do wrong in switching all the tanks around and what should i > contibue to do. since friday ive changed about 100g of water. > > Thanks > > Tom >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 40694	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 6/7/2009
Subject: Re: Hello everyone, long time no see

Since all tanks have been running for a year, then it should not have been nitrogen cycle based. Slow down on the PWC's and lets try to figure out what's wrong. It sounds like something died in your 150G and started decaying and that put the BIG burden on your biological filtration so you saw the BIG jump in ammonia... or possibly something caused the snail kill... and then the decaying snails became too much of a bioload problem. What kind of snails... small pond snails or BIG Mystery and/or Apple snails? Did all of this start after you moved the decorations and added the silk plants? It sounds like it but I wanted to be sure. Were the silk plants from a reputable source and did you rinse them well to make sure they didn't bring any pollutants in with them? I don't think the bird/rat cages should have anything to do with your problems. I'm presuming you're not using any kinds of disinfecting sprays or anything on the birds/rats. The ammonia smell from the cages should not be an issue to the fish tanks, although there could possibly be some ingasing of the ammonia, it would be such a small amount that the biological filtration would quickly convert it to nitrate. While the 8ppm of ammonia is certainly something to be alarmed at, the 60ppm of nitrate, while elevated, is nothing to be alarmed at. Here is \\Steve's// long article about nitrates from a while back, as well as some follow-up info that wasn't posted to the group. http://goldlenny.blogspot.com/2007/02/nitrates-long-explanation-thanks-to.ht ml I do think you are going too long on doing filter maintenance/cleaning. Keeping the decaying fish poop and detritus in the filter for four weeks is giving it a LONG time to dissolved and go into suspension in the water column as DOC's (Dissolved Organic Compounds). Doing more frequent filter maintenance is technically better than doing more frequent PWC's. If you can keep the fish poop and detritus out of the water in the first place, the water will not get as "dirty". Here's a little "story" about "FILTRATION" as told by Bill in one of my pond related Yahoo Groups. As you can see, for Koi ponds, he recommends cleaning the filters every couple/few days. I clean mine weekly, when I also do PWC's but if I would clean the filters 2-3 times a week, I could probably go two weeks on the PWC's so if water rationing ever becomes an issue down here, I would probably do the more frequent filter cleaning. FILTRATION: HAVING TO CLEAN A FILTER CAN BE GOOD. First of all, if a filter does not collect junk and clog, it isn't doing its job and working to get the junk out of the water. Since IT'S ALL ABOUT WATER QUALITY, the filter is supposed to take organics out of the water to IMPROVE water quality. (Inorganics = rocks = really aren't a problem.) If a filter catches organics and the filter is not clogged (yet) but also not cleaned - then the organics can dissolve and go back into the water in solution = LOWERING THE WATER QUALITY. SO, the object of a good pond keeper is to IMPROVE water quality = clean the organics from ANY filter BEFORE they dissolve = every other day, every third day....... Sorry for bringing reality into your lives.... I know everyone wants a filter that doesn't EVER need to be cleaned. Imagine that the filter catches poop. So it is the fishes' toilet. How often do you clean (flush) your toilet? Why? Why not the fishes' also. :-) Bill ------------ Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of turbocoupe76 Sent: Sunday, June 07, 2009 9:04 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Hello everyone, long time no see I have a question that seems to baffle me. I recently switched my tanks around. I put my 4 goldfish in one of my 55g and the 2 Koi in another 55g. They were all in the 150g. The 2 Koi are being sold so the 55 is their temp home. Both 55g are now cold water tanks. The tropical fish that where in both 55gs are now together in the 150g. All tanks have been runnning since last year with no major problems.. until now I took out the ornaments from the 55s and put them all in the 150. the 55s are bare with gravel. I left the filters the way they are except on the 150 which now has one established Eheim 2227, one established Emperor 400 and one new emperor 400 but i used the media from the old filter in the removable cartridges. I added silk plants instead of the plastic ones that where there originally. The tank is kept at 76*-77*. I have about 15 tropical fish in the tank. Mostly gouramis, tetras and barbs. The tank is understocked. I did this about 3 weeks ago. Ive been doing PWCs every week. The coldwater tanks are fine. The tropical tank had a high ammonia level 8ppm and nitrate level 60ppm. I noticed this because all my snalls started dying off quickly so i knew something was wrong. I did several water changes since Friday and now Im still at 2-3ppm with ammonia.The fish appear fine and arent lethargic in anyway. no swelling or redness around the gills either. I broke down and bought 2 bottles of refridgerated Tetra safestart/biospira (whatever you want to call it now). I added that on saturday and today (sunday) the ammonia is still at 2-3ppm but the nitrates are at 10ppm. I rinsed out the eheim media with tank water and no change . I usually rinse the media every 4 weeks. I thought they were the problem for my high nitrates. The only addition to my fish tank room was 3 cages. two cages have 9 rats in them and 1 cage has a pigeon in it. The girl who owns them seems to change there bedding alot. It has a strong scent of ammonia. Can this be giving me a problem?? What did I do wrong in switching all the tanks around and what should i contibue to do. since friday ive changed about 100g of water. Thanks Tom

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 40695	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 6/7/2009
Subject: Re: python

You would have to do a controlled siphon removal of water one time to find the "mark" for a 25% PWC (37.5G in your case or you could just do 35G or 40G for simplicity). Top off your 150G, at least to the bottom of the top frame (or your preferred water level). You would have to use either the 10G tank and fill/drain it four times or use 5G buckets and fill/empty them eight times (or since you might only want to fill the buckets to the 4G mark, it would take 10 buckets. Of course, using a gallon milk jug, you would have to make a 4G mark on the inside of the buckets.). The buckets would be faster than siphoning the 10G tank four times. Once you've removed 40G from the 150G tank, put a mark on one of the back corner frame brackets so you will know the precise spot for when you can replace 40G of water. Once you've done this controlled and measured siphon one time, you will know the spot from then on to siphon out with your Python. If you take a little too much or too little water out on a future PWC, it will not be a big deal. Still dose with your dechlor for the 40G water that you should be doing. The dechlor products have a certain level of error built into them so a small over or under dosing will not make a difference as long as it's not excessive and/or constant. For example, using the mark on the tank, some weeks you might go a little more, some weeks a little less but on average, you will be doing 40G per week so things will stay in balance as far as chemical dosing is concerned. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of turbocoupe76 Sent: Sunday, June 07, 2009 9:17 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: python whats the best way to figure out how much water is taken out of a tank. I have 1 150g tank so if i take out 40 gallons or 60 gallons with the python it still looks realitivly the same. to correctly dose the water and get the exact temp, I fill a 10 gallon tank thats located above my 150 and syphon it into the tank. This is a slow and long proccess If i could just fill the tank wiht the python it would make life easier. any ideas?? Thanks Tom --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Steve Szabo" <steve@...> wrote: > > There are quite a number of people using them, and they do work. I add > my conditioning product to the water in the tank prior to filling it > with the replacement water. > > \\Steve// > > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] > On Behalf Of Courtland Jacob > Sent: Saturday, June 06, 2009 6:33 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Subject: [AquaticLife] python > > anyone use one of these vacs? do they work? is it safe to use > considering that you can't add conditioner to the water you are > adding, and that being said, when do you add water conditioner when using it? >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 40696	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 6/7/2009
Subject: Re: python

OK \\Steve// ... why 59%? Or was that supposed to be 50% and just a typo? Inquiring minds want to know! LOL Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Steve Szabo Sent: Sunday, June 07, 2009 9:47 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: python I usually just measure the tank itself, using a height measurement to the normal fill mark of the water, and subtracting for the glass. This gives you a fairly accurate rough measurement of the water contained since it does not account for the space taken up by the substrate and other decor, but it also does not include the water contained within the filtering system. Once you have the measurements, just do the calculations (HLW/231=gallons where HWL are in inches). What I used to do was to then mark my tanks with a marker to designate 10, 25, 33, and 59% water change levels so I had a fairly accurate measurement rather than just eyeballing it and say, well, that's 10% or whatever I was looking for. \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of turbocoupe76 Sent: Sunday, June 07, 2009 10:17 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: python whats the best way to figure out how much water is taken out of a tank. I have 1 150g tank so if i take out 40 gallons or 60 gallons with the python it still looks realitivly the same. to correctly dose the water and get the exact temp, I fill a 10 gallon tank thats located above my 150 and syphon it into the tank. This is a slow and long proccess If i could just fill the tank wiht the python it would make life easier. any ideas?? Thanks Tom --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Steve Szabo" <steve@...> wrote: > > There are quite a number of people using them, and they do work. I add > my conditioning product to the water in the tank prior to filling it > with the replacement water. > > \\Steve// > > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] > On Behalf Of Courtland Jacob > Sent: Saturday, June 06, 2009 6:33 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Subject: [AquaticLife] python > > anyone use one of these vacs? do they work? is it safe to use > considering that you can't add conditioner to the water you are > adding, and that being said, when do you add water conditioner when using it?

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 40697	From: bill1433	Date: 6/7/2009
Subject: Re: python

Because 59% is not 60%----------nobody does a 60% water change! come Len! Even I got that one! ol bill --- On Sun, 6/7/09, Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@...> wrote: > From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@...> > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: python > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Date: Sunday, June 7, 2009, 12:36 PM > OK \\Steve// > > ... why 59%?  > > Or was that supposed to be 50% and just a typo?  > > Inquiring minds want to know! LOL > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed > on the right > side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives > by Year, Month) > > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] > On > Behalf Of Steve Szabo > Sent: Sunday, June 07, 2009 9:47 AM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: python > > I usually just measure the tank itself, using a height > measurement to the > normal fill mark of the water, and subtracting for the > glass. This gives you > a fairly accurate rough measurement of the water contained > since it does not > account for the space taken up by the substrate and other > decor, but it also > does not include the water contained within the filtering > system. Once you > have the measurements, just do the calculations > (HLW/231=gallons where HWL > are in inches). What I used to do was to then mark my tanks > with a marker to > designate 10, 25, 33, and 59% water change levels so I had > a fairly accurate > measurement rather than just eyeballing it and say, well, > that's 10% or > whatever I was looking for. > > \\Steve// > > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] > On > Behalf Of turbocoupe76 > Sent: Sunday, June 07, 2009 10:17 AM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: python > > whats the best way to figure out how much water is taken > out of a tank. I > have 1 150g tank so if i take out 40 gallons or 60 gallons > with the python > it still looks realitivly the same. to correctly dose the > water and get the > exact temp, I fill a 10 gallon tank thats located above my > 150 and syphon it > into the tank. This is a slow and long proccess If i could > just fill the > tank wiht the python it would make life easier. any > ideas?? > > Thanks > > Tom > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, > "Steve Szabo" <steve@...> wrote: > > > > There are quite a number of people using them, and > they do work. I add > > my conditioning product to the water in the tank prior > to filling it > > with the replacement water. > > > > \\Steve// > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] > > On Behalf Of Courtland Jacob > > Sent: Saturday, June 06, 2009 6:33 PM > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > Subject: [AquaticLife] python > > > > anyone use one of these vacs? do they work? is it safe > to use > > considering that you can't add conditioner to the > water you are > > adding, and that being said, when do you add water > conditioner when using > it? > > > > ------------------------------------ > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when > replying, Thank You. > ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> > ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> > PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is > NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of > the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new > subject (was re: old subject)" <- > <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. > , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. > > If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of > unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by > clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the home page.  > > Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com > to receive the digest, which includes up to 25 posts at a > time in a single email > > Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com > for the No E-Mail option where you will still be able to > read messages on the group and post replies. > > Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com > to receive individual e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links > > >     mailto:AquaticLife-fullfeatured@yahoogroups.com > > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 40698	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 6/7/2009
Subject: Re: python

LOL. That was one of my thoughts too. \\Steve// wouldn't want to do a BIG 60% PWC so he stops it at 59%. ;-) Now, the trick is trying to dose the dechlor for the 59% PWC. LOL Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of bill1433 Sent: Sunday, June 07, 2009 11:49 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: python Because 59% is not 60%----------nobody does a 60% water change! come Len! Even I got that one! ol bill --- On Sun, 6/7/09, Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@...> wrote: > From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@...> > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: python > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Date: Sunday, June 7, 2009, 12:36 PM > OK \\Steve// > > ... why 59%? > > Or was that supposed to be 50% and just a typo? > > Inquiring minds want to know! LOL > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles > referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically > under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) > > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] > On > Behalf Of Steve Szabo > Sent: Sunday, June 07, 2009 9:47 AM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: python > > I usually just measure the tank itself, using a height > measurement to the > normal fill mark of the water, and subtracting for the > glass. This gives you > a fairly accurate rough measurement of the water contained > since it does not > account for the space taken up by the substrate and other > decor, but it also > does not include the water contained within the filtering > system. Once you > have the measurements, just do the calculations > (HLW/231=gallons where HWL > are in inches). What I used to do was to then mark my tanks > with a marker to > designate 10, 25, 33, and 59% water change levels so I had > a fairly accurate > measurement rather than just eyeballing it and say, well, > that's 10% or > whatever I was looking for. > > \\Steve// > > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] > On > Behalf Of turbocoupe76 > Sent: Sunday, June 07, 2009 10:17 AM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: python > > whats the best way to figure out how much water is taken > out of a tank. I > have 1 150g tank so if i take out 40 gallons or 60 gallons > with the python > it still looks realitivly the same. to correctly dose the > water and get the > exact temp, I fill a 10 gallon tank thats located above my > 150 and syphon it > into the tank. This is a slow and long proccess If i could > just fill the > tank wiht the python it would make life easier. any > ideas?? > > Thanks > > Tom > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, > "Steve Szabo" <steve@...> wrote: > > > > There are quite a number of people using them, and > they do work. I add > > my conditioning product to the water in the tank prior > to filling it > > with the replacement water. > > > > \\Steve// > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] > > On Behalf Of Courtland Jacob > > Sent: Saturday, June 06, 2009 6:33 PM > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > Subject: [AquaticLife] python > > > > anyone use one of these vacs? do they work? is it safe > to use > > considering that you can't add conditioner to the > water you are > > adding, and that being said, when do you add water > conditioner when using > it?

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 40699	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 6/7/2009
Subject: Re: python

Ignoring minds would have let that go. Did you not know that 59% is a mystical number in fishkeeping? It is a failure of proofing what I send prior to sending it. A spell check will only do so much. \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Lenny V. aka GoldLenny Sent: Sunday, June 07, 2009 12:37 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: python OK \\Steve// ... why 59%? Or was that supposed to be 50% and just a typo? Inquiring minds want to know! LOL Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Steve Szabo Sent: Sunday, June 07, 2009 9:47 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: python I usually just measure the tank itself, using a height measurement to the normal fill mark of the water, and subtracting for the glass. This gives you a fairly accurate rough measurement of the water contained since it does not account for the space taken up by the substrate and other decor, but it also does not include the water contained within the filtering system. Once you have the measurements, just do the calculations (HLW/231=gallons where HWL are in inches). What I used to do was to then mark my tanks with a marker to designate 10, 25, 33, and 59% water change levels so I had a fairly accurate measurement rather than just eyeballing it and say, well, that's 10% or whatever I was looking for. \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of turbocoupe76 Sent: Sunday, June 07, 2009 10:17 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: python whats the best way to figure out how much water is taken out of a tank. I have 1 150g tank so if i take out 40 gallons or 60 gallons with the python it still looks realitivly the same. to correctly dose the water and get the exact temp, I fill a 10 gallon tank thats located above my 150 and syphon it into the tank. This is a slow and long proccess If i could just fill the tank wiht the python it would make life easier. any ideas?? Thanks Tom --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Steve Szabo" <steve@...> wrote: > > There are quite a number of people using them, and they do work. I add > my conditioning product to the water in the tank prior to filling it > with the replacement water. > > \\Steve// > > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] > On Behalf Of Courtland Jacob > Sent: Saturday, June 06, 2009 6:33 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Subject: [AquaticLife] python > > anyone use one of these vacs? do they work? is it safe to use > considering that you can't add conditioner to the water you are > adding, and that being said, when do you add water conditioner when using it?

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 40700	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 6/7/2009
Subject: Re: python

Mathematically, it is very simple to dose at 59%, you just need 59/100 of a full dose. I don't think anyone else sees a problem with that. \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Lenny V. aka GoldLenny Sent: Sunday, June 07, 2009 1:03 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: python LOL. That was one of my thoughts too. \\Steve// wouldn't want to do a BIG 60% PWC so he stops it at 59%. ;-) Now, the trick is trying to dose the dechlor for the 59% PWC. LOL Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of bill1433 Sent: Sunday, June 07, 2009 11:49 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: python Because 59% is not 60%----------nobody does a 60% water change! come Len! Even I got that one! ol bill --- On Sun, 6/7/09, Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@...> wrote: > From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@...> > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: python > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Date: Sunday, June 7, 2009, 12:36 PM > OK \\Steve// > > ... why 59%? > > Or was that supposed to be 50% and just a typo? > > Inquiring minds want to know! LOL > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles > referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically > under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) > > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] > On > Behalf Of Steve Szabo > Sent: Sunday, June 07, 2009 9:47 AM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: python > > I usually just measure the tank itself, using a height > measurement to the > normal fill mark of the water, and subtracting for the > glass. This gives you > a fairly accurate rough measurement of the water contained > since it does not > account for the space taken up by the substrate and other > decor, but it also > does not include the water contained within the filtering > system. Once you > have the measurements, just do the calculations > (HLW/231=gallons where HWL > are in inches). What I used to do was to then mark my tanks > with a marker to > designate 10, 25, 33, and 59% water change levels so I had > a fairly accurate > measurement rather than just eyeballing it and say, well, > that's 10% or > whatever I was looking for. > > \\Steve// > > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] > On > Behalf Of turbocoupe76 > Sent: Sunday, June 07, 2009 10:17 AM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: python > > whats the best way to figure out how much water is taken > out of a tank. I > have 1 150g tank so if i take out 40 gallons or 60 gallons > with the python > it still looks realitivly the same. to correctly dose the > water and get the > exact temp, I fill a 10 gallon tank thats located above my > 150 and syphon it > into the tank. This is a slow and long proccess If i could > just fill the > tank wiht the python it would make life easier. any > ideas?? > > Thanks > > Tom > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, > "Steve Szabo" <steve@...> wrote: > > > > There are quite a number of people using them, and > they do work. I add > > my conditioning product to the water in the tank prior > to filling it > > with the replacement water. > > > > \\Steve// > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] > > On Behalf Of Courtland Jacob > > Sent: Saturday, June 06, 2009 6:33 PM > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > Subject: [AquaticLife] python > > > > anyone use one of these vacs? do they work? is it safe > to use > > considering that you can't add conditioner to the > water you are > > adding, and that being said, when do you add water > conditioner when using > it?

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 40701	From: bill1433	Date: 6/7/2009
Subject: Re: python

Now that was YOUR first mistake buddy! We all know that LEN does not have an "Ignoring Mind"! ol bill --- On Sun, 6/7/09, Steve Szabo <steve@...> wrote: > From: Steve Szabo <steve@...> > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: python > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Date: Sunday, June 7, 2009, 1:12 PM > Ignoring minds would have let that > go. > > Did you not know that 59% is a mystical number in > fishkeeping? > > It is a failure of proofing what I send prior to sending > it. A spell > check will only do so much. > > \\Steve// > > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] > On Behalf Of Lenny V. aka GoldLenny > Sent: Sunday, June 07, 2009 12:37 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: python > > OK \\Steve// > > ... why 59%?  > > Or was that supposed to be 50% and just a typo?  > > Inquiring minds want to know! LOL > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed > on the right > side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives > by Year, > Month) > > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] > On > Behalf Of Steve Szabo > Sent: Sunday, June 07, 2009 9:47 AM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: python > > I usually just measure the tank itself, using a height > measurement to > the > normal fill mark of the water, and subtracting for the > glass. This gives > you > a fairly accurate rough measurement of the water contained > since it does > not > account for the space taken up by the substrate and other > decor, but it > also > does not include the water contained within the filtering > system. Once > you > have the measurements, just do the calculations > (HLW/231=gallons where > HWL > are in inches). What I used to do was to then mark my tanks > with a > marker to > designate 10, 25, 33, and 59% water change levels so I had > a fairly > accurate > measurement rather than just eyeballing it and say, well, > that's 10% or > whatever I was looking for. > > \\Steve// > > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] > On > Behalf Of turbocoupe76 > Sent: Sunday, June 07, 2009 10:17 AM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: python > > whats the best way to figure out how much water is taken > out of a tank. > I > have 1 150g tank so if i take out 40 gallons or 60 gallons > with the > python > it still looks realitivly the same. to correctly dose the > water and get > the > exact temp, I fill a 10 gallon tank thats located above my > 150 and > syphon it > into the tank. This is a slow and long proccess If i could > just fill the > tank wiht the python it would make life easier. any > ideas?? > > Thanks > > Tom > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, > "Steve Szabo" <steve@...> wrote: > > > > There are quite a number of people using them, and > they do work. I add > > > my conditioning product to the water in the tank prior > to filling it > > with the replacement water. > > > > \\Steve// > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] > > On Behalf Of Courtland Jacob > > Sent: Saturday, June 06, 2009 6:33 PM > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > Subject: [AquaticLife] python > > > > anyone use one of these vacs? do they work? is it safe > to use > > considering that you can't add conditioner to the > water you are > > adding, and that being said, when do you add water > conditioner when > using > it? > > > > > ------------------------------------ > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when > replying, Thank You. > ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> > ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> > PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is > NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of > the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new > subject (was re: old subject)" <- > <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. > , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. > > If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of > unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by > clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the home page.  > > Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com > to receive the digest, which includes up to 25 posts at a > time in a single email > > Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com > for the No E-Mail option where you will still be able to > read messages on the group and post replies. > > Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com > to receive individual e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links > > >     mailto:AquaticLife-fullfeatured@yahoogroups.com > > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 40702	From: bill1433	Date: 6/7/2009
Subject: Re: python

Perfectly Clear to me, but then I got it the first time around! Len...............are you picking this up? ol bill --- On Sun, 6/7/09, Steve Szabo <steve@...> wrote: > From: Steve Szabo <steve@...> > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: python > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Date: Sunday, June 7, 2009, 1:15 PM > Mathematically, it is very simple to > dose at 59%, you just need 59/100 > of a full dose. I don't think anyone else sees a problem > with that. > > \\Steve// > > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] > On Behalf Of Lenny V. aka GoldLenny > Sent: Sunday, June 07, 2009 1:03 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: python > > LOL.  That was one of my thoughts too.  \\Steve// > wouldn't want to do a > BIG > 60% PWC so he stops it at 59%. ;-)  Now, the trick is > trying to dose the > dechlor for the 59% PWC. LOL > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed > on the right > side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives > by Year, > Month) > > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] > On > Behalf Of bill1433 > Sent: Sunday, June 07, 2009 11:49 AM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: python > > > Because 59% is not 60%----------nobody does a 60% water > change! > > come Len!  Even I got that one! > > ol bill > > --- On Sun, 6/7/09, Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@...> > wrote: > > > From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@...> > > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: python > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > Date: Sunday, June 7, 2009, 12:36 PM > > OK \\Steve// > > > > ... why 59%? > > > > Or was that supposed to be 50% and just a typo? > > > > Inquiring minds want to know! LOL > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to > any articles > > referenced in above reply are listed on the right > side, alphabetically > > > under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] > > On > > Behalf Of Steve Szabo > > Sent: Sunday, June 07, 2009 9:47 AM > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: python > > > > I usually just measure the tank itself, using a > height > > measurement to the > > normal fill mark of the water, and subtracting for > the > > glass. This gives you > > a fairly accurate rough measurement of the water > contained > > since it does not > > account for the space taken up by the substrate and > other > > decor, but it also > > does not include the water contained within the > filtering > > system. Once you > > have the measurements, just do the calculations > > (HLW/231=gallons where HWL > > are in inches). What I used to do was to then mark my > tanks > > with a marker to > > designate 10, 25, 33, and 59% water change levels so I > had > > a fairly accurate > > measurement rather than just eyeballing it and say, > well, > > that's 10% or > > whatever I was looking for. > > > > \\Steve// > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] > > On > > Behalf Of turbocoupe76 > > Sent: Sunday, June 07, 2009 10:17 AM > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: python > > > > whats the best way to figure out how much water is > taken > > out of a tank. I > > have 1 150g tank so if i take out 40 gallons or 60 > gallons > > with the python > > it still looks realitivly the same. to correctly dose > the > > water and get the > > exact temp, I fill a 10 gallon tank thats located > above my > > 150 and syphon it > > into the tank. This is a slow and long proccess If i > could > > just fill the > > tank wiht the python it would make life easier. any > > ideas?? > > > > Thanks > > > > Tom > > > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, > > "Steve Szabo" <steve@...> wrote: > > > > > > There are quite a number of people using them, > and > > they do work. I add > > > my conditioning product to the water in the tank > prior > > to filling it > > > with the replacement water. > > > > > > \\Steve// > > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] > > > On Behalf Of Courtland Jacob > > > Sent: Saturday, June 06, 2009 6:33 PM > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > > Subject: [AquaticLife] python > > > > > > anyone use one of these vacs? do they work? is it > safe > > to use > > > considering that you can't add conditioner to > the > > water you are > > > adding, and that being said, when do you add > water > > conditioner when using > > it? > > > > > ------------------------------------ > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when > replying, Thank You. > ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> > ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> > PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is > NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of > the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new > subject (was re: old subject)" <- > <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. > , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. > > If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of > unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by > clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the home page.  > > Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com > to receive the digest, which includes up to 25 posts at a > time in a single email > > Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com > for the No E-Mail option where you will still be able to > read messages on the group and post replies. > > Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com > to receive individual e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links > > >     mailto:AquaticLife-fullfeatured@yahoogroups.com > > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 40703	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 6/7/2009
Subject: Re: python

LOL. So what is so mystical about 59? I thought the symbol for Pisces was NOT 59? Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Steve Szabo Sent: Sunday, June 07, 2009 12:13 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: python Ignoring minds would have let that go. Did you not know that 59% is a mystical number in fishkeeping? It is a failure of proofing what I send prior to sending it. A spell check will only do so much. \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Lenny V. aka GoldLenny Sent: Sunday, June 07, 2009 12:37 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: python OK \\Steve// ... why 59%? Or was that supposed to be 50% and just a typo? Inquiring minds want to know! LOL Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Steve Szabo Sent: Sunday, June 07, 2009 9:47 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: python I usually just measure the tank itself, using a height measurement to the normal fill mark of the water, and subtracting for the glass. This gives you a fairly accurate rough measurement of the water contained since it does not account for the space taken up by the substrate and other decor, but it also does not include the water contained within the filtering system. Once you have the measurements, just do the calculations (HLW/231=gallons where HWL are in inches). What I used to do was to then mark my tanks with a marker to designate 10, 25, 33, and 59% water change levels so I had a fairly accurate measurement rather than just eyeballing it and say, well, that's 10% or whatever I was looking for. \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of turbocoupe76 Sent: Sunday, June 07, 2009 10:17 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: python whats the best way to figure out how much water is taken out of a tank. I have 1 150g tank so if i take out 40 gallons or 60 gallons with the python it still looks realitivly the same. to correctly dose the water and get the exact temp, I fill a 10 gallon tank thats located above my 150 and syphon it into the tank. This is a slow and long proccess If i could just fill the tank wiht the python it would make life easier. any ideas?? Thanks Tom --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Steve Szabo" <steve@...> wrote: > > There are quite a number of people using them, and they do work. I add > my conditioning product to the water in the tank prior to filling it > with the replacement water. > > \\Steve// > > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] > On Behalf Of Courtland Jacob > Sent: Saturday, June 06, 2009 6:33 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Subject: [AquaticLife] python > > anyone use one of these vacs? do they work? is it safe to use > considering that you can't add conditioner to the water you are > adding, and that being said, when do you add water conditioner when using it?

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 40704	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 6/7/2009
Subject: Re: python

But trying to get 59/100'ths of a capful is the tough part... especially when the cap is marked off with only 1ml, 5ml and 10ml increments. It's hard enough to get the 1ml or 5ml accurate. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Steve Szabo Sent: Sunday, June 07, 2009 12:16 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: python Mathematically, it is very simple to dose at 59%, you just need 59/100 of a full dose. I don't think anyone else sees a problem with that. \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Lenny V. aka GoldLenny Sent: Sunday, June 07, 2009 1:03 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: python LOL. That was one of my thoughts too. \\Steve// wouldn't want to do a BIG 60% PWC so he stops it at 59%. ;-) Now, the trick is trying to dose the dechlor for the 59% PWC. LOL Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of bill1433 Sent: Sunday, June 07, 2009 11:49 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: python Because 59% is not 60%----------nobody does a 60% water change! come Len! Even I got that one! ol bill --- On Sun, 6/7/09, Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@...> wrote: > From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@...> > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: python > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Date: Sunday, June 7, 2009, 12:36 PM > OK \\Steve// > > ... why 59%? > > Or was that supposed to be 50% and just a typo? > > Inquiring minds want to know! LOL > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles > referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically > under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) > > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] > On > Behalf Of Steve Szabo > Sent: Sunday, June 07, 2009 9:47 AM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: python > > I usually just measure the tank itself, using a height > measurement to the > normal fill mark of the water, and subtracting for the > glass. This gives you > a fairly accurate rough measurement of the water contained > since it does not > account for the space taken up by the substrate and other > decor, but it also > does not include the water contained within the filtering > system. Once you > have the measurements, just do the calculations > (HLW/231=gallons where HWL > are in inches). What I used to do was to then mark my tanks > with a marker to > designate 10, 25, 33, and 59% water change levels so I had > a fairly accurate > measurement rather than just eyeballing it and say, well, > that's 10% or > whatever I was looking for. > > \\Steve// > > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] > On > Behalf Of turbocoupe76 > Sent: Sunday, June 07, 2009 10:17 AM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: python > > whats the best way to figure out how much water is taken > out of a tank. I > have 1 150g tank so if i take out 40 gallons or 60 gallons > with the python > it still looks realitivly the same. to correctly dose the > water and get the > exact temp, I fill a 10 gallon tank thats located above my > 150 and syphon it > into the tank. This is a slow and long proccess If i could > just fill the > tank wiht the python it would make life easier. any > ideas?? > > Thanks > > Tom > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, > "Steve Szabo" <steve@...> wrote: > > > > There are quite a number of people using them, and > they do work. I add > > my conditioning product to the water in the tank prior > to filling it > > with the replacement water. > > > > \\Steve// > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] > > On Behalf Of Courtland Jacob > > Sent: Saturday, June 06, 2009 6:33 PM > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > Subject: [AquaticLife] python > > > > anyone use one of these vacs? do they work? is it safe > to use > > considering that you can't add conditioner to the > water you are > > adding, and that being said, when do you add water > conditioner when using > it?

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 40705	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 6/7/2009
Subject: Re: python

Yep. I've been called many things.. but "Ignoring Mind" isn't one of them. LOL Besides, it was a slow day in the group and this had gotten us back up to our quota of messages. ;-) Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of bill1433 Sent: Sunday, June 07, 2009 12:17 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: python Now that was YOUR first mistake buddy! We all know that LEN does not have an "Ignoring Mind"! ol bill --- On Sun, 6/7/09, Steve Szabo <steve@...> wrote: > From: Steve Szabo <steve@...> > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: python > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Date: Sunday, June 7, 2009, 1:12 PM > Ignoring minds would have let that > go. > > Did you not know that 59% is a mystical number in fishkeeping? > > It is a failure of proofing what I send prior to sending it. A spell > check will only do so much. > > \\Steve// > > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] > On Behalf Of Lenny V. aka GoldLenny > Sent: Sunday, June 07, 2009 12:37 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: python > > OK \\Steve// > > ... why 59%? > > Or was that supposed to be 50% and just a typo? > > Inquiring minds want to know! LOL > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles > referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically > under Labels and also under Archives by Year, > Month) > > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] > On > Behalf Of Steve Szabo > Sent: Sunday, June 07, 2009 9:47 AM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: python > > I usually just measure the tank itself, using a height > measurement to > the > normal fill mark of the water, and subtracting for the > glass. This gives > you > a fairly accurate rough measurement of the water contained > since it does > not > account for the space taken up by the substrate and other > decor, but it > also > does not include the water contained within the filtering > system. Once > you > have the measurements, just do the calculations > (HLW/231=gallons where > HWL > are in inches). What I used to do was to then mark my tanks > with a > marker to > designate 10, 25, 33, and 59% water change levels so I had > a fairly > accurate > measurement rather than just eyeballing it and say, well, > that's 10% or > whatever I was looking for. > > \\Steve// > > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] > On > Behalf Of turbocoupe76 > Sent: Sunday, June 07, 2009 10:17 AM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: python > > whats the best way to figure out how much water is taken > out of a tank. > I > have 1 150g tank so if i take out 40 gallons or 60 gallons > with the > python > it still looks realitivly the same. to correctly dose the > water and get > the > exact temp, I fill a 10 gallon tank thats located above my > 150 and > syphon it > into the tank. This is a slow and long proccess If i could > just fill the > tank wiht the python it would make life easier. any > ideas?? > > Thanks > > Tom > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, > "Steve Szabo" <steve@...> wrote: > > > > There are quite a number of people using them, and > they do work. I add > > > my conditioning product to the water in the tank prior > to filling it > > with the replacement water. > > > > \\Steve// > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] > > On Behalf Of Courtland Jacob > > Sent: Saturday, June 06, 2009 6:33 PM > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > Subject: [AquaticLife] python > > > > anyone use one of these vacs? do they work? is it safe > to use > > considering that you can't add conditioner to the > water you are > > adding, and that being said, when do you add water > conditioner when > using > it?

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 40706	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 6/7/2009
Subject: Re: python

I'm finally back around the 'puter. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of bill1433 Sent: Sunday, June 07, 2009 12:18 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: python Perfectly Clear to me, but then I got it the first time around! Len...............are you picking this up? ol bill --- On Sun, 6/7/09, Steve Szabo <steve@...> wrote: > From: Steve Szabo <steve@...> > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: python > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Date: Sunday, June 7, 2009, 1:15 PM > Mathematically, it is very simple to > dose at 59%, you just need 59/100 > of a full dose. I don't think anyone else sees a problem with that. > > \\Steve// > > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] > On Behalf Of Lenny V. aka GoldLenny > Sent: Sunday, June 07, 2009 1:03 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: python > > LOL.  That was one of my thoughts too.  \\Steve// wouldn't want to do > a BIG 60% PWC so he stops it at 59%. ;-)  Now, the trick is trying to > dose the dechlor for the 59% PWC. LOL > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles > referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically > under Labels and also under Archives by Year, > Month) > > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] > On > Behalf Of bill1433 > Sent: Sunday, June 07, 2009 11:49 AM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: python > > > Because 59% is not 60%----------nobody does a 60% water > change! > > come Len!  Even I got that one! > > ol bill > > --- On Sun, 6/7/09, Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@...> > wrote: > > > From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@...> > > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: python > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > Date: Sunday, June 7, 2009, 12:36 PM > > OK \\Steve// > > > > ... why 59%? > > > > Or was that supposed to be 50% and just a typo? > > > > Inquiring minds want to know! LOL > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to > any articles > > referenced in above reply are listed on the right > side, alphabetically > > > under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] > > On > > Behalf Of Steve Szabo > > Sent: Sunday, June 07, 2009 9:47 AM > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: python > > > > I usually just measure the tank itself, using a > height > > measurement to the > > normal fill mark of the water, and subtracting for > the > > glass. This gives you > > a fairly accurate rough measurement of the water > contained > > since it does not > > account for the space taken up by the substrate and > other > > decor, but it also > > does not include the water contained within the > filtering > > system. Once you > > have the measurements, just do the calculations > > (HLW/231=gallons where HWL > > are in inches). What I used to do was to then mark my > tanks > > with a marker to > > designate 10, 25, 33, and 59% water change levels so I > had > > a fairly accurate > > measurement rather than just eyeballing it and say, > well, > > that's 10% or > > whatever I was looking for. > > > > \\Steve// > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] > > On > > Behalf Of turbocoupe76 > > Sent: Sunday, June 07, 2009 10:17 AM > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: python > > > > whats the best way to figure out how much water is > taken > > out of a tank. I > > have 1 150g tank so if i take out 40 gallons or 60 > gallons > > with the python > > it still looks realitivly the same. to correctly dose > the > > water and get the > > exact temp, I fill a 10 gallon tank thats located > above my > > 150 and syphon it > > into the tank. This is a slow and long proccess If i > could > > just fill the > > tank wiht the python it would make life easier. any > > ideas?? > > > > Thanks > > > > Tom > > > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, > > "Steve Szabo" <steve@...> wrote: > > > > > > There are quite a number of people using them, > and > > they do work. I add > > > my conditioning product to the water in the tank > prior > > to filling it > > > with the replacement water. > > > > > > \\Steve// > > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] > > > On Behalf Of Courtland Jacob > > > Sent: Saturday, June 06, 2009 6:33 PM > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > > Subject: [AquaticLife] python > > > > > > anyone use one of these vacs? do they work? is it > safe > > to use > > > considering that you can't add conditioner to > the > > water you are > > > adding, and that being said, when do you add > water > > conditioner when using > > it?

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 40707	From: bill1433	Date: 6/7/2009
Subject: Re: python

Amen! To our "quota of messages"! Thought it was a bit slow myself. <grin> bill----keep some sun on your face1! --- On Sun, 6/7/09, Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@...> wrote: > From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@...> > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: python > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Date: Sunday, June 7, 2009, 5:11 PM > Yep.  I've been called many > things.. but "Ignoring Mind" isn't one of them. > LOL > > Besides, it was a slow day in the group and this had gotten > us back up to > our quota of messages. ;-) > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed > on the right > side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives > by Year, Month) > > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] > On > Behalf Of bill1433 > Sent: Sunday, June 07, 2009 12:17 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: python > > > Now that was YOUR first mistake buddy! > > We all know that LEN does not have an "Ignoring Mind"! > > ol bill > > --- On Sun, 6/7/09, Steve Szabo <steve@...> > wrote: > > > From: Steve Szabo <steve@...> > > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: python > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > Date: Sunday, June 7, 2009, 1:12 PM > > Ignoring minds would have let that > > go. > > > > Did you not know that 59% is a mystical number in > fishkeeping? > > > > It is a failure of proofing what I send prior to > sending it. A spell > > check will only do so much. > > > > \\Steve// > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] > > On Behalf Of Lenny V. aka GoldLenny > > Sent: Sunday, June 07, 2009 12:37 PM > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: python > > > > OK \\Steve// > > > > ... why 59%? > > > > Or was that supposed to be 50% and just a typo? > > > > Inquiring minds want to know! LOL > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to > any articles > > referenced in above reply are listed on the right > side, alphabetically > > under Labels and also under Archives by Year, > > Month) > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] > > On > > Behalf Of Steve Szabo > > Sent: Sunday, June 07, 2009 9:47 AM > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: python > > > > I usually just measure the tank itself, using a > height > > measurement to > > the > > normal fill mark of the water, and subtracting for > the > > glass. This gives > > you > > a fairly accurate rough measurement of the water > contained > > since it does > > not > > account for the space taken up by the substrate and > other > > decor, but it > > also > > does not include the water contained within the > filtering > > system. Once > > you > > have the measurements, just do the calculations > > (HLW/231=gallons where > > HWL > > are in inches). What I used to do was to then mark my > tanks > > with a > > marker to > > designate 10, 25, 33, and 59% water change levels so I > had > > a fairly > > accurate > > measurement rather than just eyeballing it and say, > well, > > that's 10% or > > whatever I was looking for. > > > > \\Steve// > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] > > On > > Behalf Of turbocoupe76 > > Sent: Sunday, June 07, 2009 10:17 AM > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: python > > > > whats the best way to figure out how much water is > taken > > out of a tank. > > I > > have 1 150g tank so if i take out 40 gallons or 60 > gallons > > with the > > python > > it still looks realitivly the same. to correctly dose > the > > water and get > > the > > exact temp, I fill a 10 gallon tank thats located > above my > > 150 and > > syphon it > > into the tank. This is a slow and long proccess If i > could > > just fill the > > tank wiht the python it would make life easier. any > > ideas?? > > > > Thanks > > > > Tom > > > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, > > "Steve Szabo" <steve@...> wrote: > > > > > > There are quite a number of people using them, > and > > they do work. I add > > > > > my conditioning product to the water in the tank > prior > > to filling it > > > with the replacement water. > > > > > > \\Steve// > > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] > > > On Behalf Of Courtland Jacob > > > Sent: Saturday, June 06, 2009 6:33 PM > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > > Subject: [AquaticLife] python > > > > > > anyone use one of these vacs? do they work? is it > safe > > to use > > > considering that you can't add conditioner to > the > > water you are > > > adding, and that being said, when do you add > water > > conditioner when > > using > > it? > > > > ------------------------------------ > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when > replying, Thank You. > ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> > ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> > PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is > NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of > the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new > subject (was re: old subject)" <- > <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. > , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. > > If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of > unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by > clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the home page.  > > Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com > to receive the digest, which includes up to 25 posts at a > time in a single email > > Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com > for the No E-Mail option where you will still be able to > read messages on the group and post replies. > > Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com > to receive individual e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links > > >     mailto:AquaticLife-fullfeatured@yahoogroups.com > > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 40708	From: turbocoupe76	Date: 6/7/2009
Subject: Re: Hello everyone, long time no see

Ok the snails were the small pond type snails about the size of a thumbtack, but two grew to be the size of a dime. They all seemed to die within a few days of each other. This all started about a week after i swapped the tanks. Changing the 150 from cold water to tropical. My wife bought me the silk plants for my birthday from someone on ebay. They were in a sealed package but no company name. So I let them soak in a 5 gallon pail of hot water with a TBSP of bleach for 24 hours. Then I let them soak in freshwater then finally i rinsed em. No sprays or disinfectants of any kind are used down in my room I usually rinse the HOB filter cartridges under tab water weekly then put them all in a bucket of dechlor water before i put em back in. The Eheim Wet/dry I will step up to more frequent cleanings at a min of once a week. But i have been doing this method for about a year now with no problems --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@...> wrote: > > Since all tanks have been running for a year, then it should not have been > nitrogen cycle based. Slow down on the PWC's and lets try to figure out > what's wrong. > > It sounds like something died in your 150G and started decaying and that put > the BIG burden on your biological filtration so you saw the BIG jump in > ammonia... or possibly something caused the snail kill... and then the > decaying snails became too much of a bioload problem. > > What kind of snails... small pond snails or BIG Mystery and/or Apple snails? > > Did all of this start after you moved the decorations and added the silk > plants? It sounds like it but I wanted to be sure. > > Were the silk plants from a reputable source and did you rinse them well to > make sure they didn't bring any pollutants in with them? > > I don't think the bird/rat cages should have anything to do with your > problems. I'm presuming you're not using any kinds of disinfecting sprays > or anything on the birds/rats. The ammonia smell from the cages should not > be an issue to the fish tanks, although there could possibly be some > ingasing of the ammonia, it would be such a small amount that the biological > filtration would quickly convert it to nitrate. > > While the 8ppm of ammonia is certainly something to be alarmed at, the 60ppm > of nitrate, while elevated, is nothing to be alarmed at. Here is > \\Steve's// long article about nitrates from a while back, as well as some > follow-up info that wasn't posted to the group. > http://goldlenny.blogspot.com/2007/02/nitrates-long-explanation-thanks-to.ht > ml > > I do think you are going too long on doing filter maintenance/cleaning. > Keeping the decaying fish poop and detritus in the filter for four weeks is > giving it a LONG time to dissolved and go into suspension in the water > column as DOC's (Dissolved Organic Compounds). Doing more frequent filter > maintenance is technically better than doing more frequent PWC's. If you > can keep the fish poop and detritus out of the water in the first place, the > water will not get as "dirty". > > Here's a little "story" about "FILTRATION" as told by Bill in one of my pond > related Yahoo Groups. As you can see, for Koi ponds, he recommends cleaning > the filters every couple/few days. I clean mine weekly, when I also do > PWC's but if I would clean the filters 2-3 times a week, I could probably go > two weeks on the PWC's so if water rationing ever becomes an issue down > here, I would probably do the more frequent filter cleaning. > > FILTRATION: > > HAVING TO CLEAN A FILTER CAN BE GOOD. > > First of all, if a filter does not collect junk and clog, it isn't doing its > job and working to get the junk out of the water. > > Since IT'S ALL ABOUT WATER QUALITY, the filter is supposed to take organics > out of the water to IMPROVE water quality. (Inorganics = rocks = really > aren't a problem.) > > If a filter catches organics and the filter is not clogged (yet) but also > not cleaned - then the organics can dissolve and go back into the water in > solution = LOWERING THE WATER QUALITY. > > SO, the object of a good pond keeper is to IMPROVE water quality = clean the > organics from ANY filter BEFORE they dissolve = every other day, every third > day....... > > Sorry for bringing reality into your lives.... > > I know everyone wants a filter that doesn't EVER need to be cleaned. > > Imagine that the filter catches poop. So it is the fishes' toilet. > > How often do you clean (flush) your toilet? Why? Why not the fishes' also. > > :-) > > Bill > ------------ > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right > side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month)

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 40709	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 6/7/2009
Subject: Re: Hello everyone, long time no see

OK. Part of the problem with the nitrogen cycle issues in the 150G is partly due to your filter cleaning method. Rinsing your filter media under tap water will likely kill off most of your good nitrifying bacteria. While you may have been doing it for a year, you have also recently dramatically changed the rest of the ecology of the tank when you changed it from a cold water tank to a tropical tank. The higher temperature water means less DO (dissolved oxygen) in the water and nitrifying bacteria are high oxygen needing bacteria. They also live at tropical temps but have a slower metabolism due to lower oxygen levels. So, in the past, as a cold water tank, they were possibly able to repopulate at a faster rate... or the goldfish/Koi weren't as bothered by the ammonia level. Further, unless you were testing your ammonia after each time you did this over-cleaning of your filter media, you may not have realized the ammonia level was spiking. Unfortunately, goldfish have had to live with poor water quality for so long, in many cases with the breeders, that they actually do not get as stressed at high ammonia levels as some other fish who do not have to learn to tolerate poor water quality. Your snail die-off could be due to less food for them... at least that is one theory I'm leaning towards. When you had the goldfish and Koi in the tank, both fish have very short digestive tracts so a lot of food passes right through them and comes out as poop. The snails would then feed off of some of this. I know this for a fact as my Mystery Snails would often be observed munching on some goldfish poop. MMMMMMMMMmmmmm. I wonder how many people are gagging right now since it's close to dinner time? LOL Anyhow, I'm not positive of this being the cause of your snail die-off but if it is, then their decaying bodies will cause your ammonia and nitrogen cycle issues, especially if you over-cleaned the filter media recently, right before you saw the ammonia spike. Other than the food issue, I'm not sure what would have caused the snail die-off. At this point, take some cycled media from one of the other tank and put it in with the filter media of the Eheim so that you can repopulate the Eheim with nitrifying bacteria. That would have been the better thing to do rather than buying the Tetra SafeStart (formerly Bio-Spira). Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of turbocoupe76 Sent: Sunday, June 07, 2009 5:35 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Hello everyone, long time no see Ok the snails were the small pond type snails about the size of a thumbtack, but two grew to be the size of a dime. They all seemed to die within a few days of each other. This all started about a week after i swapped the tanks. Changing the 150 from cold water to tropical. My wife bought me the silk plants for my birthday from someone on ebay. They were in a sealed package but no company name. So I let them soak in a 5 gallon pail of hot water with a TBSP of bleach for 24 hours. Then I let them soak in freshwater then finally i rinsed em. No sprays or disinfectants of any kind are used down in my room I usually rinse the HOB filter cartridges under tab water weekly then put them all in a bucket of dechlor water before i put em back in. The Eheim Wet/dry I will step up to more frequent cleanings at a min of once a week. But i have been doing this method for about a year now with no problems --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@...> wrote: > > Since all tanks have been running for a year, then it should not have > been nitrogen cycle based. Slow down on the PWC's and lets try to > figure out what's wrong. > > It sounds like something died in your 150G and started decaying and > that put the BIG burden on your biological filtration so you saw the > BIG jump in ammonia... or possibly something caused the snail kill... > and then the decaying snails became too much of a bioload problem. > > What kind of snails... small pond snails or BIG Mystery and/or Apple snails? > > Did all of this start after you moved the decorations and added the > silk plants? It sounds like it but I wanted to be sure. > > Were the silk plants from a reputable source and did you rinse them > well to make sure they didn't bring any pollutants in with them? > > I don't think the bird/rat cages should have anything to do with your > problems. I'm presuming you're not using any kinds of disinfecting > sprays or anything on the birds/rats. The ammonia smell from the > cages should not be an issue to the fish tanks, although there could > possibly be some ingasing of the ammonia, it would be such a small > amount that the biological filtration would quickly convert it to nitrate. > > While the 8ppm of ammonia is certainly something to be alarmed at, the > 60ppm of nitrate, while elevated, is nothing to be alarmed at. Here > is \\Steve's// long article about nitrates from a while back, as well > as some follow-up info that wasn't posted to the group. > http://goldlenny.blogspot.com/2007/02/nitrates-long-explanation-thanks-to.ht ml > > I do think you are going too long on doing filter maintenance/cleaning. > Keeping the decaying fish poop and detritus in the filter for four > weeks is giving it a LONG time to dissolved and go into suspension in > the water column as DOC's (Dissolved Organic Compounds). Doing more > frequent filter maintenance is technically better than doing more > frequent PWC's. If you can keep the fish poop and detritus out of the > water in the first place, the water will not get as "dirty". > > Here's a little "story" about "FILTRATION" as told by Bill in one of > my pond related Yahoo Groups. As you can see, for Koi ponds, he > recommends cleaning the filters every couple/few days. I clean mine > weekly, when I also do PWC's but if I would clean the filters 2-3 > times a week, I could probably go two weeks on the PWC's so if water > rationing ever becomes an issue down here, I would probably do the more frequent filter cleaning. > > FILTRATION: > > HAVING TO CLEAN A FILTER CAN BE GOOD. > > First of all, if a filter does not collect junk and clog, it isn't > doing its job and working to get the junk out of the water. > > Since IT'S ALL ABOUT WATER QUALITY, the filter is supposed to take > organics out of the water to IMPROVE water quality. (Inorganics = > rocks = really aren't a problem.) > > If a filter catches organics and the filter is not clogged (yet) but > also not cleaned - then the organics can dissolve and go back into the > water in solution = LOWERING THE WATER QUALITY. > > SO, the object of a good pond keeper is to IMPROVE water quality = > clean the organics from ANY filter BEFORE they dissolve = every other > day, every third day....... > > Sorry for bringing reality into your lives.... > > I know everyone wants a filter that doesn't EVER need to be cleaned. > > Imagine that the filter catches poop. So it is the fishes' toilet. > > How often do you clean (flush) your toilet? Why? Why not the fishes' also. > > :-) > > Bill > ------------ > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles > referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically > under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month)

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 40710	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 6/7/2009
Subject: Re: python

5 appears in many tank designations, such as 5 gallon 5.5 gallon, 50 gallon, 55, gallon 65 gallon, 75 gallon, etc. The 9 appears often as the last digit in pricing for nearly anything you need or want, small neons $0.99, fancy guppies 3.49, Penguin 200B Power Filter 29.99, etc. \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Lenny V. aka GoldLenny Sent: Sunday, June 07, 2009 5:06 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: python LOL. So what is so mystical about 59? I thought the symbol for Pisces was NOT 59? Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Steve Szabo Sent: Sunday, June 07, 2009 12:13 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: python Ignoring minds would have let that go. Did you not know that 59% is a mystical number in fishkeeping? It is a failure of proofing what I send prior to sending it. A spell check will only do so much. \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Lenny V. aka GoldLenny Sent: Sunday, June 07, 2009 12:37 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: python OK \\Steve// ... why 59%? Or was that supposed to be 50% and just a typo? Inquiring minds want to know! LOL Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Steve Szabo Sent: Sunday, June 07, 2009 9:47 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: python I usually just measure the tank itself, using a height measurement to the normal fill mark of the water, and subtracting for the glass. This gives you a fairly accurate rough measurement of the water contained since it does not account for the space taken up by the substrate and other decor, but it also does not include the water contained within the filtering system. Once you have the measurements, just do the calculations (HLW/231=gallons where HWL are in inches). What I used to do was to then mark my tanks with a marker to designate 10, 25, 33, and 59% water change levels so I had a fairly accurate measurement rather than just eyeballing it and say, well, that's 10% or whatever I was looking for. \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of turbocoupe76 Sent: Sunday, June 07, 2009 10:17 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: python whats the best way to figure out how much water is taken out of a tank. I have 1 150g tank so if i take out 40 gallons or 60 gallons with the python it still looks realitivly the same. to correctly dose the water and get the exact temp, I fill a 10 gallon tank thats located above my 150 and syphon it into the tank. This is a slow and long proccess If i could just fill the tank wiht the python it would make life easier. any ideas?? Thanks Tom --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Steve Szabo" <steve@...> wrote: > > There are quite a number of people using them, and they do work. I add > my conditioning product to the water in the tank prior to filling it > with the replacement water. > > \\Steve// > > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] > On Behalf Of Courtland Jacob > Sent: Saturday, June 06, 2009 6:33 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Subject: [AquaticLife] python > > anyone use one of these vacs? do they work? is it safe to use > considering that you can't add conditioner to the water you are > adding, and that being said, when do you add water conditioner when using it?

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 40711	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 6/7/2009
Subject: Re: python

Piece of cake, for 5.9 ml in a 10 ml measure, you need to just surpass the 5 ml line by slightly less than 1/5 of the way between 5 and 10 ml. Or, for those not dexterous enough, apparently you Lenny, just fill to 5 ml, dump, and then to just under the 1 ml line. \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Lenny V. aka GoldLenny Sent: Sunday, June 07, 2009 5:09 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: python But trying to get 59/100'ths of a capful is the tough part... especially when the cap is marked off with only 1ml, 5ml and 10ml increments. It's hard enough to get the 1ml or 5ml accurate. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Steve Szabo Sent: Sunday, June 07, 2009 12:16 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: python Mathematically, it is very simple to dose at 59%, you just need 59/100 of a full dose. I don't think anyone else sees a problem with that. \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Lenny V. aka GoldLenny Sent: Sunday, June 07, 2009 1:03 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: python LOL. That was one of my thoughts too. \\Steve// wouldn't want to do a BIG 60% PWC so he stops it at 59%. ;-) Now, the trick is trying to dose the dechlor for the 59% PWC. LOL Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of bill1433 Sent: Sunday, June 07, 2009 11:49 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: python Because 59% is not 60%----------nobody does a 60% water change! come Len! Even I got that one! ol bill --- On Sun, 6/7/09, Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@...> wrote: > From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@...> > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: python > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Date: Sunday, June 7, 2009, 12:36 PM > OK \\Steve// > > ... why 59%? > > Or was that supposed to be 50% and just a typo? > > Inquiring minds want to know! LOL > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles > referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically > under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) > > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] > On > Behalf Of Steve Szabo > Sent: Sunday, June 07, 2009 9:47 AM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: python > > I usually just measure the tank itself, using a height > measurement to the > normal fill mark of the water, and subtracting for the > glass. This gives you > a fairly accurate rough measurement of the water contained > since it does not > account for the space taken up by the substrate and other > decor, but it also > does not include the water contained within the filtering > system. Once you > have the measurements, just do the calculations > (HLW/231=gallons where HWL > are in inches). What I used to do was to then mark my tanks > with a marker to > designate 10, 25, 33, and 59% water change levels so I had > a fairly accurate > measurement rather than just eyeballing it and say, well, > that's 10% or > whatever I was looking for. > > \\Steve// > > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] > On > Behalf Of turbocoupe76 > Sent: Sunday, June 07, 2009 10:17 AM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: python > > whats the best way to figure out how much water is taken > out of a tank. I > have 1 150g tank so if i take out 40 gallons or 60 gallons > with the python > it still looks realitivly the same. to correctly dose the > water and get the > exact temp, I fill a 10 gallon tank thats located above my > 150 and syphon it > into the tank. This is a slow and long proccess If i could > just fill the > tank wiht the python it would make life easier. any > ideas?? > > Thanks > > Tom > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, > "Steve Szabo" <steve@...> wrote: > > > > There are quite a number of people using them, and > they do work. I add > > my conditioning product to the water in the tank prior > to filling it > > with the replacement water. > > > > \\Steve// > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] > > On Behalf Of Courtland Jacob > > Sent: Saturday, June 06, 2009 6:33 PM > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > Subject: [AquaticLife] python > > > > anyone use one of these vacs? do they work? is it safe > to use > > considering that you can't add conditioner to the > water you are > > adding, and that being said, when do you add water > conditioner when using > it?

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 40712	From: bill1433	Date: 6/7/2009
Subject: Re: python

I just hope that you realize and fully understand all of the problems as well as the ramifications of this and your last post?   He's going to be up all night!   bill --- On Sun, 6/7/09, Steve Szabo <steve@...> wrote: > From: Steve Szabo <steve@...> > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: python > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Date: Sunday, June 7, 2009, 7:13 PM > Piece of cake, for 5.9 ml in a 10 ml > measure, you need to just surpass > the 5 ml line by slightly less than 1/5 of the way between > 5 and 10 ml. > Or, for those not dexterous enough, apparently you Lenny, > just fill to 5 > ml, dump, and then to just under the 1 ml line. > > \\Steve// > > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] > On Behalf Of Lenny V. aka GoldLenny > Sent: Sunday, June 07, 2009 5:09 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: python > > But trying to get 59/100'ths of a capful is the tough > part... especially > when the cap is marked off with only 1ml, 5ml and 10ml > increments.  It's > hard enough to get the 1ml or 5ml accurate. > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed > on the right > side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives > by Year, > Month) > > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] > On > Behalf Of Steve Szabo > Sent: Sunday, June 07, 2009 12:16 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: python > > Mathematically, it is very simple to dose at 59%, you just > need 59/100 > of a > full dose. I don't think anyone else sees a problem with > that. > > \\Steve// > > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] > On Behalf Of Lenny V. aka GoldLenny > Sent: Sunday, June 07, 2009 1:03 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: python > > LOL.  That was one of my thoughts too.  \\Steve// > wouldn't want to do a > BIG > 60% PWC so he stops it at 59%. ;-)  Now, the trick is > trying to dose the > dechlor for the 59% PWC. LOL > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to > any articles > referenced > in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically > under Labels > and > also under Archives by Year, > Month) > > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] > On > Behalf Of bill1433 > Sent: Sunday, June 07, 2009 11:49 AM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: python > > > Because 59% is not 60%----------nobody does a 60% water > change! > > come Len!  Even I got that one! > > ol bill > > --- On Sun, 6/7/09, Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@...> > wrote: > > > From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@...> > > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: python > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > Date: Sunday, June 7, 2009, 12:36 PM > > OK \\Steve// > > > > ... why 59%? > > > > Or was that supposed to be 50% and just a typo? > > > > Inquiring minds want to know! LOL > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to > any articles > > referenced in above reply are listed on the right > side, alphabetically > > > under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] > > On > > Behalf Of Steve Szabo > > Sent: Sunday, June 07, 2009 9:47 AM > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: python > > > > I usually just measure the tank itself, using a > height > > measurement to the > > normal fill mark of the water, and subtracting for > the > > glass. This gives you > > a fairly accurate rough measurement of the water > contained > > since it does not > > account for the space taken up by the substrate and > other > > decor, but it also > > does not include the water contained within the > filtering > > system. Once you > > have the measurements, just do the calculations > > (HLW/231=gallons where HWL > > are in inches). What I used to do was to then mark my > tanks > > with a marker to > > designate 10, 25, 33, and 59% water change levels so I > had > > a fairly accurate > > measurement rather than just eyeballing it and say, > well, > > that's 10% or > > whatever I was looking for. > > > > \\Steve// > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] > > On > > Behalf Of turbocoupe76 > > Sent: Sunday, June 07, 2009 10:17 AM > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: python > > > > whats the best way to figure out how much water is > taken > > out of a tank. I > > have 1 150g tank so if i take out 40 gallons or 60 > gallons > > with the python > > it still looks realitivly the same. to correctly dose > the > > water and get the > > exact temp, I fill a 10 gallon tank thats located > above my > > 150 and syphon it > > into the tank. This is a slow and long proccess If i > could > > just fill the > > tank wiht the python it would make life easier. any > > ideas?? > > > > Thanks > > > > Tom > > > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, > > "Steve Szabo" <steve@...> wrote: > > > > > > There are quite a number of people using them, > and > > they do work. I add > > > my conditioning product to the water in the tank > prior > > to filling it > > > with the replacement water. > > > > > > \\Steve// > > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] > > > On Behalf Of Courtland Jacob > > > Sent: Saturday, June 06, 2009 6:33 PM > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > > Subject: [AquaticLife] python > > > > > > anyone use one of these vacs? do they work? is it > safe > > to use > > > considering that you can't add conditioner to > the > > water you are > > > adding, and that being said, when do you add > water > > conditioner when using > > it? > > > ------------------------------------ > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when > replying, Thank You. > ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> > ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> > PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is > NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of > the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new > subject (was re: old subject)" <- > <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. > , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. > > If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of > unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by > clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the home page.  > > Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com > to receive the digest, which includes up to 25 posts at a > time in a single email > > Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com > for the No E-Mail option where you will still be able to > read messages on the group and post replies. > > Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com > to receive individual e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links > > >     mailto:AquaticLife-fullfeatured@yahoogroups.com > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 40713	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 6/7/2009
Subject: Re: python

LOL. I wonder how long we can beat this dead horse... ooops... or should that be dead fish? :-P Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Steve Szabo Sent: Sunday, June 07, 2009 6:14 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: python Piece of cake, for 5.9 ml in a 10 ml measure, you need to just surpass the 5 ml line by slightly less than 1/5 of the way between 5 and 10 ml. Or, for those not dexterous enough, apparently you Lenny, just fill to 5 ml, dump, and then to just under the 1 ml line. \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Lenny V. aka GoldLenny Sent: Sunday, June 07, 2009 5:09 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: python But trying to get 59/100'ths of a capful is the tough part... especially when the cap is marked off with only 1ml, 5ml and 10ml increments. It's hard enough to get the 1ml or 5ml accurate. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Steve Szabo Sent: Sunday, June 07, 2009 12:16 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: python Mathematically, it is very simple to dose at 59%, you just need 59/100 of a full dose. I don't think anyone else sees a problem with that. \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Lenny V. aka GoldLenny Sent: Sunday, June 07, 2009 1:03 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: python LOL. That was one of my thoughts too. \\Steve// wouldn't want to do a BIG 60% PWC so he stops it at 59%. ;-) Now, the trick is trying to dose the dechlor for the 59% PWC. LOL Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of bill1433 Sent: Sunday, June 07, 2009 11:49 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: python Because 59% is not 60%----------nobody does a 60% water change! come Len! Even I got that one! ol bill --- On Sun, 6/7/09, Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@...> wrote: > From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@...> > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: python > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Date: Sunday, June 7, 2009, 12:36 PM > OK \\Steve// > > ... why 59%? > > Or was that supposed to be 50% and just a typo? > > Inquiring minds want to know! LOL > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles > referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically > under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) > > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] > On > Behalf Of Steve Szabo > Sent: Sunday, June 07, 2009 9:47 AM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: python > > I usually just measure the tank itself, using a height > measurement to the > normal fill mark of the water, and subtracting for the > glass. This gives you > a fairly accurate rough measurement of the water contained > since it does not > account for the space taken up by the substrate and other > decor, but it also > does not include the water contained within the filtering > system. Once you > have the measurements, just do the calculations > (HLW/231=gallons where HWL > are in inches). What I used to do was to then mark my tanks > with a marker to > designate 10, 25, 33, and 59% water change levels so I had > a fairly accurate > measurement rather than just eyeballing it and say, well, > that's 10% or > whatever I was looking for. > > \\Steve// > > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] > On > Behalf Of turbocoupe76 > Sent: Sunday, June 07, 2009 10:17 AM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: python > > whats the best way to figure out how much water is taken > out of a tank. I > have 1 150g tank so if i take out 40 gallons or 60 gallons > with the python > it still looks realitivly the same. to correctly dose the > water and get the > exact temp, I fill a 10 gallon tank thats located above my > 150 and syphon it > into the tank. This is a slow and long proccess If i could > just fill the > tank wiht the python it would make life easier. any > ideas?? > > Thanks > > Tom > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, > "Steve Szabo" <steve@...> wrote: > > > > There are quite a number of people using them, and > they do work. I add > > my conditioning product to the water in the tank prior > to filling it > > with the replacement water. > > > > \\Steve// > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] > > On Behalf Of Courtland Jacob > > Sent: Saturday, June 06, 2009 6:33 PM > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > Subject: [AquaticLife] python > > > > anyone use one of these vacs? do they work? is it safe > to use > > considering that you can't add conditioner to the > water you are > > adding, and that being said, when do you add water > conditioner when using > it?

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 40714	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 6/7/2009
Subject: Re: python

OH MIGHTY 59... I bow in the presence of your mysticalness. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Steve Szabo Sent: Sunday, June 07, 2009 6:11 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: python 5 appears in many tank designations, such as 5 gallon 5.5 gallon, 50 gallon, 55, gallon 65 gallon, 75 gallon, etc. The 9 appears often as the last digit in pricing for nearly anything you need or want, small neons $0.99, fancy guppies 3.49, Penguin 200B Power Filter 29.99, etc. \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Lenny V. aka GoldLenny Sent: Sunday, June 07, 2009 5:06 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: python LOL. So what is so mystical about 59? I thought the symbol for Pisces was NOT 59? Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Steve Szabo Sent: Sunday, June 07, 2009 12:13 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: python Ignoring minds would have let that go. Did you not know that 59% is a mystical number in fishkeeping? It is a failure of proofing what I send prior to sending it. A spell check will only do so much. \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Lenny V. aka GoldLenny Sent: Sunday, June 07, 2009 12:37 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: python OK \\Steve// ... why 59%? Or was that supposed to be 50% and just a typo? Inquiring minds want to know! LOL Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Steve Szabo Sent: Sunday, June 07, 2009 9:47 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: python I usually just measure the tank itself, using a height measurement to the normal fill mark of the water, and subtracting for the glass. This gives you a fairly accurate rough measurement of the water contained since it does not account for the space taken up by the substrate and other decor, but it also does not include the water contained within the filtering system. Once you have the measurements, just do the calculations (HLW/231=gallons where HWL are in inches). What I used to do was to then mark my tanks with a marker to designate 10, 25, 33, and 59% water change levels so I had a fairly accurate measurement rather than just eyeballing it and say, well, that's 10% or whatever I was looking for. \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of turbocoupe76 Sent: Sunday, June 07, 2009 10:17 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: python whats the best way to figure out how much water is taken out of a tank. I have 1 150g tank so if i take out 40 gallons or 60 gallons with the python it still looks realitivly the same. to correctly dose the water and get the exact temp, I fill a 10 gallon tank thats located above my 150 and syphon it into the tank. This is a slow and long proccess If i could just fill the tank wiht the python it would make life easier. any ideas?? Thanks Tom --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Steve Szabo" <steve@...> wrote: > > There are quite a number of people using them, and they do work. I add > my conditioning product to the water in the tank prior to filling it > with the replacement water. > > \\Steve// > > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] > On Behalf Of Courtland Jacob > Sent: Saturday, June 06, 2009 6:33 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Subject: [AquaticLife] python > > anyone use one of these vacs? do they work? is it safe to use > considering that you can't add conditioner to the water you are > adding, and that being said, when do you add water conditioner when using it?

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 40715	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 6/7/2009
Subject: Re: python

On a side note, I think this thread is close to the point of being included in your joke or web wandering list. LOL Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Steve Szabo Sent: Sunday, June 07, 2009 6:14 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: python Piece of cake, for 5.9 ml in a 10 ml measure, you need to just surpass the 5 ml line by slightly less than 1/5 of the way between 5 and 10 ml. Or, for those not dexterous enough, apparently you Lenny, just fill to 5 ml, dump, and then to just under the 1 ml line. \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Lenny V. aka GoldLenny Sent: Sunday, June 07, 2009 5:09 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: python But trying to get 59/100'ths of a capful is the tough part... especially when the cap is marked off with only 1ml, 5ml and 10ml increments. It's hard enough to get the 1ml or 5ml accurate. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Steve Szabo Sent: Sunday, June 07, 2009 12:16 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: python Mathematically, it is very simple to dose at 59%, you just need 59/100 of a full dose. I don't think anyone else sees a problem with that. \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Lenny V. aka GoldLenny Sent: Sunday, June 07, 2009 1:03 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: python LOL. That was one of my thoughts too. \\Steve// wouldn't want to do a BIG 60% PWC so he stops it at 59%. ;-) Now, the trick is trying to dose the dechlor for the 59% PWC. LOL Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of bill1433 Sent: Sunday, June 07, 2009 11:49 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: python Because 59% is not 60%----------nobody does a 60% water change! come Len! Even I got that one! ol bill --- On Sun, 6/7/09, Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@...> wrote: > From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@...> > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: python > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Date: Sunday, June 7, 2009, 12:36 PM > OK \\Steve// > > ... why 59%? > > Or was that supposed to be 50% and just a typo? > > Inquiring minds want to know! LOL > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles > referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically > under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) > > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] > On > Behalf Of Steve Szabo > Sent: Sunday, June 07, 2009 9:47 AM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: python > > I usually just measure the tank itself, using a height > measurement to the > normal fill mark of the water, and subtracting for the > glass. This gives you > a fairly accurate rough measurement of the water contained > since it does not > account for the space taken up by the substrate and other > decor, but it also > does not include the water contained within the filtering > system. Once you > have the measurements, just do the calculations > (HLW/231=gallons where HWL > are in inches). What I used to do was to then mark my tanks > with a marker to > designate 10, 25, 33, and 59% water change levels so I had > a fairly accurate > measurement rather than just eyeballing it and say, well, > that's 10% or > whatever I was looking for. > > \\Steve// > > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] > On > Behalf Of turbocoupe76 > Sent: Sunday, June 07, 2009 10:17 AM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: python > > whats the best way to figure out how much water is taken > out of a tank. I > have 1 150g tank so if i take out 40 gallons or 60 gallons > with the python > it still looks realitivly the same. to correctly dose the > water and get the > exact temp, I fill a 10 gallon tank thats located above my > 150 and syphon it > into the tank. This is a slow and long proccess If i could > just fill the > tank wiht the python it would make life easier. any > ideas?? > > Thanks > > Tom > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, > "Steve Szabo" <steve@...> wrote: > > > > There are quite a number of people using them, and > they do work. I add > > my conditioning product to the water in the tank prior > to filling it > > with the replacement water. > > > > \\Steve// > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] > > On Behalf Of Courtland Jacob > > Sent: Saturday, June 06, 2009 6:33 PM > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > Subject: [AquaticLife] python > > > > anyone use one of these vacs? do they work? is it safe > to use > > considering that you can't add conditioner to the > water you are > > adding, and that being said, when do you add water > conditioner when using > it? ------------------------------------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. 74/`7.88.><((((:>.74/`7.88.74/`7.8><((((:> 8.74/`7.8. , .74/`7..><((((:> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <:((((><.74/`7.88.74/`7.8<:((((><8.74/`7.8. , .74/`7..<:((((><74/`7.88. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the home page. Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com to receive the digest, which includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com for the No E-Mail option where you will still be able to read messages on the group and post replies. Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com to receive individual e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 40716	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 6/7/2009
Subject: Re: python

LOL... nope.... sleeping like a baby tonight! ;-) Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of bill1433 Sent: Sunday, June 07, 2009 7:04 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: python I just hope that you realize and fully understand all of the problems as well as the ramifications of this and your last post?   He's going to be up all night!   bill --- On Sun, 6/7/09, Steve Szabo <steve@...> wrote: > From: Steve Szabo <steve@...> > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: python > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Date: Sunday, June 7, 2009, 7:13 PM > Piece of cake, for 5.9 ml in a 10 ml > measure, you need to just surpass > the 5 ml line by slightly less than 1/5 of the way between > 5 and 10 ml. > Or, for those not dexterous enough, apparently you Lenny, just fill to > 5 ml, dump, and then to just under the 1 ml line. > > \\Steve// > > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] > On Behalf Of Lenny V. aka GoldLenny > Sent: Sunday, June 07, 2009 5:09 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: python > > But trying to get 59/100'ths of a capful is the tough part... > especially when the cap is marked off with only 1ml, 5ml and 10ml > increments.  It's hard enough to get the 1ml or 5ml accurate. > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles > referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically > under Labels and also under Archives by Year, > Month) > > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] > On > Behalf Of Steve Szabo > Sent: Sunday, June 07, 2009 12:16 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: python > > Mathematically, it is very simple to dose at 59%, you just > need 59/100 > of a > full dose. I don't think anyone else sees a problem with > that. > > \\Steve// > > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] > On Behalf Of Lenny V. aka GoldLenny > Sent: Sunday, June 07, 2009 1:03 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: python > > LOL.  That was one of my thoughts too.  \\Steve// > wouldn't want to do a > BIG > 60% PWC so he stops it at 59%. ;-)  Now, the trick is > trying to dose the > dechlor for the 59% PWC. LOL > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to > any articles > referenced > in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically > under Labels > and > also under Archives by Year, > Month) > > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] > On > Behalf Of bill1433 > Sent: Sunday, June 07, 2009 11:49 AM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: python > > > Because 59% is not 60%----------nobody does a 60% water > change! > > come Len!  Even I got that one! > > ol bill > > --- On Sun, 6/7/09, Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@...> > wrote: > > > From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@...> > > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: python > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > Date: Sunday, June 7, 2009, 12:36 PM > > OK \\Steve// > > > > ... why 59%? > > > > Or was that supposed to be 50% and just a typo? > > > > Inquiring minds want to know! LOL > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to > any articles > > referenced in above reply are listed on the right > side, alphabetically > > > under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] > > On > > Behalf Of Steve Szabo > > Sent: Sunday, June 07, 2009 9:47 AM > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: python > > > > I usually just measure the tank itself, using a > height > > measurement to the > > normal fill mark of the water, and subtracting for > the > > glass. This gives you > > a fairly accurate rough measurement of the water > contained > > since it does not > > account for the space taken up by the substrate and > other > > decor, but it also > > does not include the water contained within the > filtering > > system. Once you > > have the measurements, just do the calculations > > (HLW/231=gallons where HWL > > are in inches). What I used to do was to then mark my > tanks > > with a marker to > > designate 10, 25, 33, and 59% water change levels so I > had > > a fairly accurate > > measurement rather than just eyeballing it and say, > well, > > that's 10% or > > whatever I was looking for. > > > > \\Steve// > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] > > On > > Behalf Of turbocoupe76 > > Sent: Sunday, June 07, 2009 10:17 AM > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: python > > > > whats the best way to figure out how much water is > taken > > out of a tank. I > > have 1 150g tank so if i take out 40 gallons or 60 > gallons > > with the python > > it still looks realitivly the same. to correctly dose > the > > water and get the > > exact temp, I fill a 10 gallon tank thats located > above my > > 150 and syphon it > > into the tank. This is a slow and long proccess If i > could > > just fill the > > tank wiht the python it would make life easier. any > > ideas?? > > > > Thanks > > > > Tom > > > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, > > "Steve Szabo" <steve@...> wrote: > > > > > > There are quite a number of people using them, > and > > they do work. I add > > > my conditioning product to the water in the tank > prior > > to filling it > > > with the replacement water. > > > > > > \\Steve// > > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] > > > On Behalf Of Courtland Jacob > > > Sent: Saturday, June 06, 2009 6:33 PM > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > > Subject: [AquaticLife] python > > > > > > anyone use one of these vacs? do they work? is it > safe > > to use > > > considering that you can't add conditioner to > the > > water you are > > > adding, and that being said, when do you add > water > > conditioner when using > > it?

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 40717	From: kragsdale411	Date: 6/7/2009
Subject: HELP! I think I have White Spot

I have 2 bichir eels, a clown louche, a bush fish, a very large Pacu, and a plecostomus and 1 bala shark in a 55 gallon aquarium. Yesterday I came home to my catfish dead. Now, today they are all covered with what looks like white bubbles. The shark's eyes appear as if he is blind as they are completely covered. The water temperature is @ 78 degrees .All fish appear to be swimming and eating fine except for the Bush fish..he is hiding in the cave but i see he is breathing. Normally he is very active. Although the catfish was the night before and was dead the next morning in the cave. Please advise me. :) Thanks, Kat

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 40718	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 6/7/2009
Subject: Re: HELP! I think I have White Spot

Here's a few GOOD and detailed articles on treating Ich (aka White Spot). http://aquatic-hobbyist.com/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=17 http://www.skepticalaquarist.com/docs/health/ich.shtml http://www.cichlid-forum.com/articles/ich.php Besides the obvious issues of having a severely overstocked tank, are there any other issues that happened recently that would have caused the outbreak? Ich is often brought on by a drastic fall in temperature of a tank and this drastic fall in temperature stresses out the fish and makes them more susceptible to all sorts of parasites and bacteria that they might have otherwise been able to fend off. Or have you added any new fish or plants recently? Of course, overstocking a tank will also stress fish out and cause immune system and other health issues. I'm hoping you realize that even with one of your fish dying, you still have around six fish too many in your tank. Was the catfish that dies the Pleco? Or another catfish species? The Bichirs (which species? Most grow to 16"+), Clown Loach (should be kept in groups of three or more and grow to 16"+), Pacu (grows to 30"+), Plecostomus (presuming this is a common pleco, grows to 18"+) and the Bala Shark (grows to 16") EACH get much too large for a 55G tank, even for a single fish and combined, you would need a multi-hundred gallon tank for all of the fish except the Pacu, which itself would need a multi-hundred gallon tank with a public aquarium sized home (or never being taken from the wild) being the best place for this HUGE fish. The only fish that is suitable for your 55G is your Bush Fish, presuming it is the Leopard Bush Fish or a similar species. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ctenopoma_acutirostre http://www.seriouslyfish.com/profile.php?id=58 Here are some reputable profiles / care sheets on your other fish, which need MUCH larger tanks... Pacu - http://fish.mongabay.com/species/Colossoma_macropomum.html Bala Shark - http://fish.mongabay.com/species/Balantiocheilus_melanopterus.html Bichirs (you need to figure out your species... here's a list of Bichir profiles) - http://www.seriouslyfish.com/kb.php?t=pv&s=6.1 (contains 2 pages of Bichir profiles) http://fish.mongabay.com/species/Polypterus_senegalus.html http://fish.mongabay.com/species/Polypterus_ornatipinnis.html http://fish.mongabay.com/polypterididae.htm Clown Loach - http://fish.mongabay.com/species/Botia_macracanthus.html Common Pleco - http://www.mongabay.com/fish/loricariidae.htm (about 1/2 way down this page) Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of kragsdale411 Sent: Sunday, June 07, 2009 8:55 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] HELP! I think I have White Spot I have 2 bichir eels, a clown louche, a bush fish, a very large Pacu, and a plecostomus and 1 bala shark in a 55 gallon aquarium. Yesterday I came home to my catfish dead. Now, today they are all covered with what looks like white bubbles. The shark's eyes appear as if he is blind as they are completely covered. The water temperature is @ 78 degrees .All fish appear to be swimming and eating fine except for the Bush fish..he is hiding in the cave but i see he is breathing. Normally he is very active. Although the catfish was the night before and was dead the next morning in the cave. Please advise me. :) Thanks, Kat

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 40719	From: turbocoupe76	Date: 6/7/2009
Subject: Re: Hello everyone, long time no see

So more nitrifying bacteria live in the filter pads than in the bio wheels? Also I never clean the Eheim with tap water just fishtank water. So what would be a better way to clean the filter pads? When I pump out my tanks I now use a Flotec 110v pump that requires a tsp of wd-40 upon start up. So I wouldnt want to use that water coming out of the pump to clean the filter pads. Siphoning the tanks doesnt create enough pressure as the tanks are only a foot off the ground. i have only a 6ft ceiling in my basement so a full size stand got annoying What about alternating the filter pads since all my filters cept for the Eheim have two cartridges. Clean one one week then next week do the other one. Would that make things easier on the bacteria or would disturbing the filter in anyway bad? I am usually off on sundays so thats when I do my water testing then my PWC. I have a bunch of extra cycled aquaclear sponges peppering the 150 tank with friendly bacteria. As of right now my ammonia is a little lighter than the 2.0ppm green on an API test kit down from 8.0ppm on friday. At this point one fish died. Should I remove the others and set them up in a 20G hospital? Or did I change the water paramaters too rapidly? Thanks for your help guys! Tom --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@...> wrote: > > OK. Part of the problem with the nitrogen cycle issues in the 150G is partly > due to your filter cleaning method. Rinsing your filter media under tap > water will likely kill off most of your good nitrifying bacteria. While you > may have been doing it for a year, you have also recently dramatically > changed the rest of the ecology of the tank when you changed it from a cold > water tank to a tropical tank. The higher temperature water means less DO > (dissolved oxygen) in the water and nitrifying bacteria are high oxygen > needing bacteria. They also live at tropical temps but have a slower > metabolism due to lower oxygen levels. So, in the past, as a cold water > tank, they were possibly able to repopulate at a faster rate... or the > goldfish/Koi weren't as bothered by the ammonia level. Further, unless you > were testing your ammonia after each time you did this over-cleaning of your > filter media, you may not have realized the ammonia level was spiking. > Unfortunately, goldfish have had to live with poor water quality for so > long, in many cases with the breeders, that they actually do not get as > stressed at high ammonia levels as some other fish who do not have to learn > to tolerate poor water quality. > > Your snail die-off could be due to less food for them... at least that is > one theory I'm leaning towards. When you had the goldfish and Koi in the > tank, both fish have very short digestive tracts so a lot of food passes > right through them and comes out as poop. The snails would then feed off of > some of this. I know this for a fact as my Mystery Snails would often be > observed munching on some goldfish poop. MMMMMMMMMmmmmm. I wonder how many > people are gagging right now since it's close to dinner time? LOL Anyhow, > I'm not positive of this being the cause of your snail die-off but if it is, > then their decaying bodies will cause your ammonia and nitrogen cycle > issues, especially if you over-cleaned the filter media recently, right > before you saw the ammonia spike. Other than the food issue, I'm not sure > what would have caused the snail die-off. > > At this point, take some cycled media from one of the other tank and put it > in with the filter media of the Eheim so that you can repopulate the Eheim > with nitrifying bacteria. That would have been the better thing to do > rather than buying the Tetra SafeStart (formerly Bio-Spira). > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 40720	From: turbocoupe76	Date: 6/7/2009
Subject: Re: Hello everyone, long time no see

That would have been the better thing to do, rather than buying the Tetra SafeStart (formerly Bio-Spira). > > Lenny Vasbinder OK OK I paniced!!! Tom :)

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 40721	From: kathy ragsdale	Date: 6/7/2009
Subject: Re: HELP! I think I have White Spot

Ok first, they're are only 6 fish in the tank hun, they are all small (1 -2 inch's) except for the pacu which is around 7inch's. No new fish have been added as i got this tank already full and had removed 7 cichlids from it. The catfish was around 3 inches and he was a Pictus Cat. The Bush is a leopard and maybe 2 inches. the eels are  around 3". The Pacu is not by my choice but when i got the tank he was already there so i've kept him and have recently bought two additional 55 gallon tanks to separate them. However i want to cure this first. I have checked out the sites already but they vary a bit from Ick meds to Aquarium salt suggestions, i was wanting a "skilled" opinion first hand. Any ideas that you know work? --- On Sun, 6/7/09, Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@...> wrote: From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@...> Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] HELP! I think I have White Spot To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Date: Sunday, June 7, 2009, 7:46 PM Here's a few GOOD and detailed articles on treating Ich (aka White Spot). http://aquatic- hobbyist. com/phpBB2/ viewtopic. php?t=17 http://www.skeptica laquarist. com/docs/ health/ich. shtml http://www.cichlid- forum.com/ articles/ ich.php Besides the obvious issues of having a severely overstocked tank, are there any other issues that happened recently that would have caused the outbreak? Ich is often brought on by a drastic fall in temperature of a tank and this drastic fall in temperature stresses out the fish and makes them more susceptible to all sorts of parasites and bacteria that they might have otherwise been able to fend off. Or have you added any new fish or plants recently? Of course, overstocking a tank will also stress fish out and cause immune system and other health issues. I'm hoping you realize that even with one of your fish dying, you still have around six fish too many in your tank. Was the catfish that dies the Pleco? Or another catfish species? The Bichirs (which species? Most grow to 16"+), Clown Loach (should be kept in groups of three or more and grow to 16"+), Pacu (grows to 30"+), Plecostomus (presuming this is a common pleco, grows to 18"+) and the Bala Shark (grows to 16") EACH get much too large for a 55G tank, even for a single fish and combined, you would need a multi-hundred gallon tank for all of the fish except the Pacu, which itself would need a multi-hundred gallon tank with a public aquarium sized home (or never being taken from the wild) being the best place for this HUGE fish. The only fish that is suitable for your 55G is your Bush Fish, presuming it is the Leopard Bush Fish or a similar species. http://en.wikipedia .org/wiki/ Ctenopoma_ acutirostre http://www.seriousl yfish.com/ profile.php? id=58 Here are some reputable profiles / care sheets on your other fish, which need MUCH larger tanks... Pacu - http://fish. mongabay. com/species/ Colossoma_ macropomum. html Bala Shark - http://fish. mongabay. com/species/ Balantiocheilus_ melanopterus. html Bichirs (you need to figure out your species... here's a list of Bichir profiles) - http://www.seriousl yfish.com/ kb.php?t= pv&s=6.1 (contains 2 pages of Bichir profiles) http://fish. mongabay. com/species/ Polypterus_ senegalus. html http://fish. mongabay. com/species/ Polypterus_ ornatipinnis. html http://fish. mongabay. com/polypteridid ae.htm Clown Loach - http://fish. mongabay. com/species/ Botia_macracanth us.html Common Pleco - http://www.mongabay .com/fish/ loricariidae. htm (about 1/2 way down this page) Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com [mailto:AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com] On Behalf Of kragsdale411 Sent: Sunday, June 07, 2009 8:55 PM To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com Subject: [AquaticLife] HELP! I think I have White Spot I have 2 bichir eels, a clown louche, a bush fish, a very large Pacu, and a plecostomus and 1 bala shark in a 55 gallon aquarium. Yesterday I came home to my catfish dead. Now, today they are all covered with what looks like white bubbles. The shark's eyes appear as if he is blind as they are completely covered. The water temperature is @ 78 degrees .All fish appear to be swimming and eating fine except for the Bush fish..he is hiding in the cave but i see he is breathing. Normally he is very active. Although the catfish was the night before and was dead the next morning in the cave. Please advise me. :) Thanks, Kat [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 40722	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 6/7/2009
Subject: Re: HELP! I think I have White Spot

Lenny's advice is still very valid you need to rehome those fish soon before they take over the tank and/or start eating the other fish. Even if those fish are small now they will grow with each feeding and water change that you give them. I have a red tailed catfish in my 125 gallon tank and it's already eaten several fish in a little over a month and he's only about 5 inches long. Don't underestimate any fish ;) I prefer to use the heat and salt treatment instead of meds, but with loaches they don't care for heat and salt very much, I have a good link for treating ich when you have loaches in your tank. http://forums.loaches.com/viewtopic.php?t=2599&sid=2dc58c9a427cffb4f70868cd88ea3bda Hope that helps, Amber kathy ragsdale wrote: > > > Ok first, they're are only 6 fish in the tank hun, they are all small > (1 -2 inch's) except for the pacu which is around 7inch's. No new fish > have been added as i got this tank already full and had removed 7 > cichlids from it. The catfish was around 3 inches and he was a Pictus > Cat. The Bush is a leopard and maybe 2 inches. the eels are around > 3". The Pacu is not by my choice but when i got the tank he was > already there so i've kept him and have recently bought two additional > 55 gallon tanks to separate them. However i want to cure this first. I > have checked out the sites already but they vary a bit from Ick meds > to Aquarium salt suggestions, i was wanting a "skilled" opinion first > hand. Any ideas that you know work? > > --- On Sun, 6/7/09, Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@... > <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com>> wrote: > > From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@... > <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com>> > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] HELP! I think I have White Spot > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Date: Sunday, June 7, 2009, 7:46 PM > > Here's a few GOOD and detailed articles on treating Ich (aka White Spot). > > http://aquatic- hobbyist. com/phpBB2/ viewtopic. php?t=17 > > http://www.skeptica laquarist. com/docs/ health/ich. shtml > > http://www.cichlid- forum.com/ articles/ ich.php > > Besides the obvious issues of having a severely overstocked tank, are > there > > any other issues that happened recently that would have caused the > outbreak? > > Ich is often brought on by a drastic fall in temperature of a tank and > this > > drastic fall in temperature stresses out the fish and makes them more > > susceptible to all sorts of parasites and bacteria that they might have > > otherwise been able to fend off. Or have you added any new fish or plants > > recently? Of course, overstocking a tank will also stress fish out and > > cause immune system and other health issues. > > I'm hoping you realize that even with one of your fish dying, you > still have > > around six fish too many in your tank. Was the catfish that dies the > Pleco? > > Or another catfish species? > > The Bichirs (which species? Most grow to 16"+), Clown Loach (should be > kept > > in groups of three or more and grow to 16"+), Pacu (grows to 30"+), > > Plecostomus (presuming this is a common pleco, grows to 18"+) and the Bala > > Shark (grows to 16") EACH get much too large for a 55G tank, even for a > > single fish and combined, you would need a multi-hundred gallon tank > for all > > of the fish except the Pacu, which itself would need a multi-hundred > gallon > > tank with a public aquarium sized home (or never being taken from the > wild) > > being the best place for this HUGE fish. > > The only fish that is suitable for your 55G is your Bush Fish, > presuming it > > is the Leopard Bush Fish or a similar species. > > http://en.wikipedia .org/wiki/ Ctenopoma_ acutirostre > > http://www.seriousl yfish.com/ profile.php? id=58 > > Here are some reputable profiles / care sheets on your other fish, which > > need MUCH larger tanks... > > Pacu - http://fish. mongabay. com/species/ Colossoma_ macropomum. html > > Bala Shark - > > http://fish. mongabay. com/species/ Balantiocheilus_ melanopterus. html > > Bichirs (you need to figure out your species... here's a list of Bichir > > profiles) - http://www.seriousl yfish.com/ kb.php?t= pv&s=6.1 > (contains 2 pages > > of Bichir profiles) > > http://fish. mongabay. com/species/ Polypterus_ senegalus. html > > http://fish. mongabay. com/species/ Polypterus_ ornatipinnis. html > > http://fish. mongabay. com/polypteridid ae.htm > > Clown Loach - http://fish. mongabay. com/species/ Botia_macracanth us.html > > Common Pleco - http://www.mongabay .com/fish/ loricariidae. htm (about > 1/2 way > > down this page) > > Lenny Vasbinder > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com > > (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right > > side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) > > -----Original Message----- > > From: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com [mailto:AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. > com] On > > Behalf Of kragsdale411 > > Sent: Sunday, June 07, 2009 8:55 PM > > To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com > > Subject: [AquaticLife] HELP! I think I have White Spot > > I have 2 bichir eels, a clown louche, a bush fish, a very large Pacu, > and a > > plecostomus and 1 bala shark in a 55 gallon aquarium. Yesterday I came > home > > to my catfish dead. Now, today they are all covered with what looks like > > white bubbles. The shark's eyes appear as if he is blind as they are > > completely covered. The water temperature is @ 78 degrees .All fish appear > > to be swimming and eating fine except for the Bush fish..he is hiding > in the > > cave but i see he is breathing. Normally he is very active. Although the > > catfish was the night before and was dead the next morning in the cave. > > Please advise me. :) > > Thanks, Kat > > > > > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 40723	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 6/7/2009
Subject: Re: Hello everyone, long time no see

The beginning of this email thread got cut off but I thought you had the Eheim on the 150G? I also could swear that I read you cleaned the filter media under tap water but I went back and read and you would rinse the filter cartridges of the HOB's under tap water. I also thought you only had the Eheim on the 150G but I now see you have the Eheim and two Emperor 400's, with Bio-Wheels. Sorry, I guess I suffered information overload. :-P OK. Considering all of the better consumed information, it's not likely happening from your filter cleaning but what I would do in the future is rotate cleaning the filters "good" (meaning rinsing clear under tap water), with only one done each week, when you have multiple filters. For the other filter cartridges/media, just remove the filter cartridge/media and rub the heavy stuff off in some removed tank water (just dip a gallon of water out of the tank) and then swish them around to get most of the detritus off while leaving the N-bacteria alive. This, along with the four Bio-Wheels and you should never see any cycling issues. Now, the problem comes in what caused the ammonia spike and whether it was a snail die-off that caused the ammonia or the ammonia that caused the snail die-off and a fish death. If there are no other causes of your filters becoming un-cycled (meaning contaminants, medications, over-cleaning, etc.), then it must be something that caused the snails to die. Snails will starve to death easily and that is the best way to rid oneself of snails... is to cut back on feeding the fish as snails are opportunistic breeders and if there is not enough food, some will die and the others will not breed as much as part of trying to ensure their own survival. As I stated earlier, I think this may be what happened when you moved the goldfish/Koi from the 150G and the much smaller mass of tropical fish into the 150G. Since you likely cut back on feeding dramatically, there would be less chance of food for the snails (and the fact that snails would munch on goldfish/Koi poop, which is still full of nutrition), it doesn't take long for the snails to start dying back. I lost my Mystery Snails after Hurricane Katrina since I was having to limit the feeding of the fish since I did not have power (14 days) or clean water (5 weeks) and the only thing that I have been able to determine as to their deaths is starvation. I thought they would do OK with just the algae and plants but I guess they also relied too much on that nutrition enriched goldfish poop too. :-P Your last question below, "Did I change the water parameters too rapidly?", is a BIG ONE. How fast did you do it? I was thinking about this when you were talking about how you switched fish around. The thing I've done in the past when acclimating a tropical to sub-tropical fish to a high cool water tank, when I had to keep a common pleco in my 65G goldfish tank temporarily after I rescued a grossly overstocked 10G tank, I slowly raised the goldfish up to 75-76F while slowly lowering the tropical tank to the same level. I also did a series of PWC's on both tanks so the water parameters were nearly identical. Then I moved the pleco. All went well. What did you do to acclimate the fish (and snails) to the changing temperatures? It's usually best to not change the tank by more than 1-2F per day. Since your ammonia is coming down rapidly, I would not go around moving the fish. You know, I never did ask, but what is your pH in this 150G tank? If you have a high pH, ammonia is much more toxic than it is with a neutral or low pH. If you have a low pH (below 7.0), even the 8ppm of ammonia might not be very bad compared to if you had a pH of 7.8+ where even 0.25ppm of ammonia starts to become toxic. Temperature also affects ammonia toxicity so a cooler tank is less toxic than a warmer tank. Another thing I didn't really cover is about the Tetra SafeStart. Nitrifying bacteria do not do as well if the ammonia level gets too high. This has been documented by folks doing fishless cycling with plain ammonia. If the ammonia level gets over 5.0 or if the GH gets too low, the fishless cycle will stall so there is a chance that adding the SafeStart to the 8ppm of ammonia might not have worked as well as it would have in newly set up tank with no fish... which is the designed purpose of Bio-Spira now called either Tetra SafeStart or the BETTER CHOICE, Dr. Tim's One And Only. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of turbocoupe76 Sent: Sunday, June 07, 2009 10:03 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Hello everyone, long time no see So more nitrifying bacteria live in the filter pads than in the bio wheels? Also I never clean the Eheim with tap water just fishtank water. So what would be a better way to clean the filter pads? When I pump out my tanks I now use a Flotec 110v pump that requires a tsp of wd-40 upon start up. So I wouldnt want to use that water coming out of the pump to clean the filter pads. Siphoning the tanks doesnt create enough pressure as the tanks are only a foot off the ground. i have only a 6ft ceiling in my basement so a full size stand got annoying What about alternating the filter pads since all my filters cept for the Eheim have two cartridges. Clean one one week then next week do the other one. Would that make things easier on the bacteria or would disturbing the filter in anyway bad? I am usually off on sundays so thats when I do my water testing then my PWC. I have a bunch of extra cycled aquaclear sponges peppering the 150 tank with friendly bacteria. As of right now my ammonia is a little lighter than the 2.0ppm green on an API test kit down from 8.0ppm on friday. At this point one fish died. Should I remove the others and set them up in a 20G hospital? Or did I change the water paramaters too rapidly? Thanks for your help guys! Tom --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@...> wrote: > > OK. Part of the problem with the nitrogen cycle issues in the 150G is > partly due to your filter cleaning method. Rinsing your filter media > under tap water will likely kill off most of your good nitrifying > bacteria. While you may have been doing it for a year, you have also > recently dramatically changed the rest of the ecology of the tank when > you changed it from a cold water tank to a tropical tank. The higher > temperature water means less DO (dissolved oxygen) in the water and > nitrifying bacteria are high oxygen needing bacteria. They also live > at tropical temps but have a slower metabolism due to lower oxygen > levels. So, in the past, as a cold water tank, they were possibly > able to repopulate at a faster rate... or the goldfish/Koi weren't as > bothered by the ammonia level. Further, unless you were testing your > ammonia after each time you did this over-cleaning of your filter media, you may not have realized the ammonia level was spiking. > Unfortunately, goldfish have had to live with poor water quality for > so long, in many cases with the breeders, that they actually do not > get as stressed at high ammonia levels as some other fish who do not > have to learn to tolerate poor water quality. > > Your snail die-off could be due to less food for them... at least that > is one theory I'm leaning towards. When you had the goldfish and Koi > in the tank, both fish have very short digestive tracts so a lot of > food passes right through them and comes out as poop. The snails > would then feed off of some of this. I know this for a fact as my > Mystery Snails would often be observed munching on some goldfish poop. > MMMMMMMMMmmmmm. I wonder how many people are gagging right now since > it's close to dinner time? LOL Anyhow, I'm not positive of this > being the cause of your snail die-off but if it is, then their > decaying bodies will cause your ammonia and nitrogen cycle issues, > especially if you over-cleaned the filter media recently, right before > you saw the ammonia spike. Other than the food issue, I'm not sure what would have caused the snail die-off. > > At this point, take some cycled media from one of the other tank and > put it in with the filter media of the Eheim so that you can > repopulate the Eheim with nitrifying bacteria. That would have been > the better thing to do rather than buying the Tetra SafeStart (formerly Bio-Spira). > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 40724	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 6/7/2009
Subject: Re: HELP! I think I have White Spot

As far as the Ich treatment, there are many ways to attack the parasite. The salt and heat is the first thing I would try for most fish... BUT you would have to read up more about each of your fish to see how well they tolerate the salt and heat. Those three articles each cover this as well. I do not know enough about each of your species, or even which species you have for some of your fish. I do know that fish which are scaleless do not tolerate salt or meds as well as fish with scales. Also, fish that typically prefer soft water do not tolerate higher salt levels as well as fish that prefer hard water. The profiles I gave you on your fish would show if they prefer softer water or harder water. Depending on how well each fish tolerates either salt or a specific med, you might even have to separate them into different tanks with different treatments for each tank based on the fish in the tank. A quick Google search on each of your species (use the scientific name) and the word "Ich" would likely give you more info as to the best way to treat each fish and whether they could all get the same treatment or not. Here is Loaches.com forum thread on treating for Ich. http://forums.loaches.com/viewtopic.php?t=16721 which recommends using products like Rid-Ich or Quick-Cure (with formalin and malachite green) as opposed to salt but I've also read that Loaches that are acclimated to harder water will tolerate salt OK too. This article says to only use a 50% dose of the meds since Loaches are scaleless. Maybe one of the other members, who might have more experience with the same species of fish as you will chime in with more info. It's really a good idea to use scientific names when you are wanting detailed answers as just using Bichir will not give someone the kind of info they need since there are dozens of species (maybe more) in the Bichir group, albeit a couple of them are more common than the rest. Same with the Pleco and "catfish" which you have now ID'ed as a Pictus catfish. You really like them BIG FISH.. which is cool but it just means you need lots of BIG TANKS.. which is also cool if one can swing it! ;-) I would suggest a forum, MonsterFishKeepers.com but they might give you a much harder time than you've perceived me to give you. I'm really not trying to give you a hard time... just trying to give you some well established advice. Unless you start making some serious plans about what to do with your fish, long-term, this bout with Ich will be the least of your health issues that you will see with your fish. This idea that since all of the fish are "still small" is a common misconception of fish keepers... thinking that since the fish are small, it's OK to house them together. While this is OK to do on a short term basis, it's NOT OK to do, IF NOT on a short term basis. I'm just going to touch on this a little, but fish release hormones, pheromones, etc., as well as their usual urine, poop, ammonia, etc., into the water. Fish that KNOW they are supposed to get BIG start releasing a LOT MORE hormones and pheromones than smaller fish and when these levels get to a certain level in the water, all of the fish will start to stunt themselves. While this sounds like a good thing, so the fish will not outgrow a tank, it's NOT a good thing and stunting comes with many other health issues related to stress, etc. The same thing happens when incompatible fish are kept in the same tank. The weaker fish get stressed out and start having health problems. The same thing happens when six or seven what-are-supposed-to-be-BIG-FISH are stuck into an undersized tank for too long and if there are not enough water changes and advanced filtration to try and lower these hormone levels. All of these BIG fish know they can't all survive in this home so some fish start to get more stressed out than others, ultimately leading to sick fish. I like to compare this to a human being locked in a room with Hannibal Lector. While he might not eat our face off right away or even that first night, we would certainly not get very much sleep while trying to ensure our existence long enough for someone to come take Hannibal Lector out of the room. During this time period.. of days turning into weeks turning into months, we will suffer from elevated stress levels, lack of sleep, etc., which would more than likely cause us other health issues, IBS, etc.. The longer we're in the room with Hannibal, the worse our health will get... even if he never does try to eat our face off in the middle of the night. ;-) Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of kathy ragsdale Sent: Sunday, June 07, 2009 10:07 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] HELP! I think I have White Spot Ok first, they're are only 6 fish in the tank hun, they are all small (1 -2 inch's) except for the pacu which is around 7inch's. No new fish have been added as i got this tank already full and had removed 7 cichlids from it. The catfish was around 3 inches and he was a Pictus Cat. The Bush is a leopard and maybe 2 inches. the eels are  around 3". The Pacu is not by my choice but when i got the tank he was already there so i've kept him and have recently bought two additional 55 gallon tanks to separate them. However i want to cure this first. I have checked out the sites already but they vary a bit from Ick meds to Aquarium salt suggestions, i was wanting a "skilled" opinion first hand. Any ideas that you know work? --- On Sun, 6/7/09, Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@...> wrote: From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@...> Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] HELP! I think I have White Spot To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Date: Sunday, June 7, 2009, 7:46 PM Here's a few GOOD and detailed articles on treating Ich (aka White Spot). http://aquatic- hobbyist. com/phpBB2/ viewtopic. php?t=17 http://www.skeptica laquarist. com/docs/ health/ich. shtml http://www.cichlid- forum.com/ articles/ ich.php Besides the obvious issues of having a severely overstocked tank, are there any other issues that happened recently that would have caused the outbreak? Ich is often brought on by a drastic fall in temperature of a tank and this drastic fall in temperature stresses out the fish and makes them more susceptible to all sorts of parasites and bacteria that they might have otherwise been able to fend off. Or have you added any new fish or plants recently? Of course, overstocking a tank will also stress fish out and cause immune system and other health issues. I'm hoping you realize that even with one of your fish dying, you still have around six fish too many in your tank. Was the catfish that dies the Pleco? Or another catfish species? The Bichirs (which species? Most grow to 16"+), Clown Loach (should be kept in groups of three or more and grow to 16"+), Pacu (grows to 30"+), Plecostomus (presuming this is a common pleco, grows to 18"+) and the Bala Shark (grows to 16") EACH get much too large for a 55G tank, even for a single fish and combined, you would need a multi-hundred gallon tank for all of the fish except the Pacu, which itself would need a multi-hundred gallon tank with a public aquarium sized home (or never being taken from the wild) being the best place for this HUGE fish. The only fish that is suitable for your 55G is your Bush Fish, presuming it is the Leopard Bush Fish or a similar species. http://en.wikipedia .org/wiki/ Ctenopoma_ acutirostre http://www.seriousl yfish.com/ profile.php? id=58 Here are some reputable profiles / care sheets on your other fish, which need MUCH larger tanks... Pacu - http://fish. mongabay. com/species/ Colossoma_ macropomum. html Bala Shark - http://fish. mongabay. com/species/ Balantiocheilus_ melanopterus. html Bichirs (you need to figure out your species... here's a list of Bichir profiles) - http://www.seriousl yfish.com/ kb.php?t= pv&s=6.1 (contains 2 pages of Bichir profiles) http://fish. mongabay. com/species/ Polypterus_ senegalus. html http://fish. mongabay. com/species/ Polypterus_ ornatipinnis. html http://fish. mongabay. com/polypteridid ae.htm Clown Loach - http://fish. mongabay. com/species/ Botia_macracanth us.html Common Pleco - http://www.mongabay .com/fish/ loricariidae. htm (about 1/2 way down this page) Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com [mailto:AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com] On Behalf Of kragsdale411 Sent: Sunday, June 07, 2009 8:55 PM To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com Subject: [AquaticLife] HELP! I think I have White Spot I have 2 bichir eels, a clown louche, a bush fish, a very large Pacu, and a plecostomus and 1 bala shark in a 55 gallon aquarium. Yesterday I came home to my catfish dead. Now, today they are all covered with what looks like white bubbles. The shark's eyes appear as if he is blind as they are completely covered. The water temperature is @ 78 degrees .All fish appear to be swimming and eating fine except for the Bush fish..he is hiding in the cave but i see he is breathing. Normally he is very active. Although the catfish was the night before and was dead the next morning in the cave. Please advise me. :) Thanks, Kat

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 40725	From: Dora Smith	Date: 6/7/2009
Subject: Re: HELP! I think I have White Spot

My new betta, who has his own gallon and a half clear plastic salad container with beautiful fresh clear spring water, has a large blue-green-white slightly sunken spot on his face. I've had him for less than a day; he came from Petsmart in one of those little plastic things full of blue stuff. Not overly filthy. He has had six blood worms to eat. (Once he figured out they were food, which took overnight, he scarfed three extra worms I had dropped.) What's the best thing to treat it with? I put in the doses on the bottles of melafix and pima fix, decided it was too strong (at 1/2 ml/ gallon of each), and diluted by half. Yours, Dora Smith Austin, TX tiggernut24@... ----- Original Message ----- From: "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@...> To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Sunday, June 07, 2009 9:46 PM Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] HELP! I think I have White Spot Here's a few GOOD and detailed articles on treating Ich (aka White Spot). http://aquatic-hobbyist.com/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=17 http://www.skepticalaquarist.com/docs/health/ich.shtml http://www.cichlid-forum.com/articles/ich.php Besides the obvious issues of having a severely overstocked tank, are there any other issues that happened recently that would have caused the outbreak? Ich is often brought on by a drastic fall in temperature of a tank and this drastic fall in temperature stresses out the fish and makes them more susceptible to all sorts of parasites and bacteria that they might have otherwise been able to fend off. Or have you added any new fish or plants recently? Of course, overstocking a tank will also stress fish out and cause immune system and other health issues. I'm hoping you realize that even with one of your fish dying, you still have around six fish too many in your tank. Was the catfish that dies the Pleco? Or another catfish species? The Bichirs (which species? Most grow to 16"+), Clown Loach (should be kept in groups of three or more and grow to 16"+), Pacu (grows to 30"+), Plecostomus (presuming this is a common pleco, grows to 18"+) and the Bala Shark (grows to 16") EACH get much too large for a 55G tank, even for a single fish and combined, you would need a multi-hundred gallon tank for all of the fish except the Pacu, which itself would need a multi-hundred gallon tank with a public aquarium sized home (or never being taken from the wild) being the best place for this HUGE fish. The only fish that is suitable for your 55G is your Bush Fish, presuming it is the Leopard Bush Fish or a similar species. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ctenopoma_acutirostre http://www.seriouslyfish.com/profile.php?id=58 Here are some reputable profiles / care sheets on your other fish, which need MUCH larger tanks... Pacu - http://fish.mongabay.com/species/Colossoma_macropomum.html Bala Shark - http://fish.mongabay.com/species/Balantiocheilus_melanopterus.html Bichirs (you need to figure out your species... here's a list of Bichir profiles) - http://www.seriouslyfish.com/kb.php?t=pv&s=6.1 (contains 2 pages of Bichir profiles) http://fish.mongabay.com/species/Polypterus_senegalus.html http://fish.mongabay.com/species/Polypterus_ornatipinnis.html http://fish.mongabay.com/polypterididae.htm Clown Loach - http://fish.mongabay.com/species/Botia_macracanthus.html Common Pleco - http://www.mongabay.com/fish/loricariidae.htm (about 1/2 way down this page) Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of kragsdale411 Sent: Sunday, June 07, 2009 8:55 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] HELP! I think I have White Spot I have 2 bichir eels, a clown louche, a bush fish, a very large Pacu, and a plecostomus and 1 bala shark in a 55 gallon aquarium. Yesterday I came home to my catfish dead. Now, today they are all covered with what looks like white bubbles. The shark's eyes appear as if he is blind as they are completely covered. The water temperature is @ 78 degrees .All fish appear to be swimming and eating fine except for the Bush fish..he is hiding in the cave but i see he is breathing. Normally he is very active. Although the catfish was the night before and was dead the next morning in the cave. Please advise me. :) Thanks, Kat ------------------------------------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the home page. Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com to receive the digest, which includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com for the No E-Mail option where you will still be able to read messages on the group and post replies. Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com to receive individual e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 40726	From: kathy ragsdale	Date: 6/7/2009
Subject: Re: HELP! I think I have White Spot

Thank-you and Lenny both for your Advice. I had already planned on thinning the tank out as i have purchased two more 55 gallon tanks,  totally three but this happened and i didn't want to spread it to yet another tank. The Bala has died as we have chatted and i just finished a 50 % water change and treated it with the Malachite green Ick med. I'll just cross my fingers and pray now :( Thanks also for the links, i think i had read everything i could possibly find but this last one on the louches.                                                                        Hugz, Kat --- On Sun, 6/7/09, Amber Berglund <amber@...> wrote: From: Amber Berglund <amber@...> Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] HELP! I think I have White Spot To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Date: Sunday, June 7, 2009, 8:49 PM Lenny's advice is still very valid you need to rehome those fish soon before they take over the tank and/or start eating the other fish. Even if those fish are small now they will grow with each feeding and water change that you give them. I have a red tailed catfish in my 125 gallon tank and it's already eaten several fish in a little over a month and he's only about 5 inches long. Don't underestimate any fish ;) I prefer to use the heat and salt treatment instead of meds, but with loaches they don't care for heat and salt very much, I have a good link for treating ich when you have loaches in your tank. http://forums. loaches.com/ viewtopic. php?t=2599& sid=2dc58c9a427c ffb4f70868cd88ea 3bda Hope that helps, Amber kathy ragsdale wrote: > > > Ok first, they're are only 6 fish in the tank hun, they are all small > (1 -2 inch's) except for the pacu which is around 7inch's. No new fish > have been added as i got this tank already full and had removed 7 > cichlids from it. The catfish was around 3 inches and he was a Pictus > Cat. The Bush is a leopard and maybe 2 inches. the eels are around > 3". The Pacu is not by my choice but when i got the tank he was > already there so i've kept him and have recently bought two additional > 55 gallon tanks to separate them. However i want to cure this first. I > have checked out the sites already but they vary a bit from Ick meds > to Aquarium salt suggestions, i was wanting a "skilled" opinion first > hand. Any ideas that you know work? > > --- On Sun, 6/7/09, Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@gmail. com > <mailto:GoldLenny% 40gmail.com> > wrote: > > From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@gmail. com > <mailto:GoldLenny% 40gmail.com> > > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] HELP! I think I have White Spot > To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com <mailto:AquaticLife %40yahoogroups. com> > Date: Sunday, June 7, 2009, 7:46 PM > > Here's a few GOOD and detailed articles on treating Ich (aka White Spot). > > http://aquatic- hobbyist. com/phpBB2/ viewtopic. php?t=17 > > http://www.skeptica laquarist. com/docs/ health/ich. shtml > > http://www.cichlid- forum.com/ articles/ ich.php > > Besides the obvious issues of having a severely overstocked tank, are > there > > any other issues that happened recently that would have caused the > outbreak? > > Ich is often brought on by a drastic fall in temperature of a tank and > this > > drastic fall in temperature stresses out the fish and makes them more > > susceptible to all sorts of parasites and bacteria that they might have > > otherwise been able to fend off. Or have you added any new fish or plants > > recently? Of course, overstocking a tank will also stress fish out and > > cause immune system and other health issues. > > I'm hoping you realize that even with one of your fish dying, you > still have > > around six fish too many in your tank. Was the catfish that dies the > Pleco? > > Or another catfish species? > > The Bichirs (which species? Most grow to 16"+), Clown Loach (should be > kept > > in groups of three or more and grow to 16"+), Pacu (grows to 30"+), > > Plecostomus (presuming this is a common pleco, grows to 18"+) and the Bala > > Shark (grows to 16") EACH get much too large for a 55G tank, even for a > > single fish and combined, you would need a multi-hundred gallon tank > for all > > of the fish except the Pacu, which itself would need a multi-hundred > gallon > > tank with a public aquarium sized home (or never being taken from the > wild) > > being the best place for this HUGE fish. > > The only fish that is suitable for your 55G is your Bush Fish, > presuming it > > is the Leopard Bush Fish or a similar species. > > http://en.wikipedia .org/wiki/ Ctenopoma_ acutirostre > > http://www.seriousl yfish.com/ profile.php? id=58 > > Here are some reputable profiles / care sheets on your other fish, which > > need MUCH larger tanks... > > Pacu - http://fish. mongabay. com/species/ Colossoma_ macropomum. html > > Bala Shark - > > http://fish. mongabay. com/species/ Balantiocheilus_ melanopterus. html > > Bichirs (you need to figure out your species... here's a list of Bichir > > profiles) - http://www.seriousl yfish.com/ kb.php?t= pv&s=6.1 > (contains 2 pages > > of Bichir profiles) > > http://fish. mongabay. com/species/ Polypterus_ senegalus. html > > http://fish. mongabay. com/species/ Polypterus_ ornatipinnis. html > > http://fish. mongabay. com/polypteridid ae.htm > > Clown Loach - http://fish. mongabay. com/species/ Botia_macracanth us.html > > Common Pleco - http://www.mongabay .com/fish/ loricariidae. htm (about > 1/2 way > > down this page) > > Lenny Vasbinder > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com > > (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right > > side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) > > -----Original Message----- > > From: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com [mailto:AquaticLife @ yahoogroups. > com] On > > Behalf Of kragsdale411 > > Sent: Sunday, June 07, 2009 8:55 PM > > To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com > > Subject: [AquaticLife] HELP! I think I have White Spot > > I have 2 bichir eels, a clown louche, a bush fish, a very large Pacu, > and a > > plecostomus and 1 bala shark in a 55 gallon aquarium. Yesterday I came > home > > to my catfish dead. Now, today they are all covered with what looks like > > white bubbles. The shark's eyes appear as if he is blind as they are > > completely covered. The water temperature is @ 78 degrees .All fish appear > > to be swimming and eating fine except for the Bush fish..he is hiding > in the > > cave but i see he is breathing. Normally he is very active. Although the > > catfish was the night before and was dead the next morning in the cave. > > Please advise me. :) > > Thanks, Kat > > > > > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 40727	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 6/7/2009
Subject: Re: Dora's Betta Questions (was: HELP! I think I have White Spot)

Dora, You know better than to hijack a thread. LOL Yes, for labyrinth fish, I've written many times that you should not use full dosing of Melafix or Pimafix for them. A 50% dose seems to work OK for them so do PWC's as needed to dilute the initial dosage down to 50% and then only do 50% doses for any follow-ups. API even makes a special product called Bettafix which is only a 10% solution of Melafix but it's more cost effective to buy Melafix and use a lesser dose and up to 50% seems to work fine for most labyrinth fish keepers. I've used this 50% treatment on Gouramis, with success, in the past. HOWEVER.. I'm not sure that either of these are the right thing in your case and I would have only started with the Melafix until you know what the problem is. Pimafix is more of an anti-fungal and Melafix is more of an anti-bacterial treatment. Was this spot on his face when you bought him or did he injure it on something in his new home or do you have an idea of what it is? If it's an injury, then Melafix, at the 50% dose, would be OK to help with healing. As I think you know, but just in case other readers do not know, be careful with feeding freeze dried bloodworms or too much of any food to Bettas. Freeze dried bloodworms should be re-hydrated first by soaking in some of their water for a few minutes and then only feed them a very small piece of a blood worm, no more than a single bloodworm at any one feeding. A Betta's digestive system is crammed into a very small section of it's thoracic region which is why they are prone to constipation and other digestive issues. If they suffer from their-eyes-are-bigger-than-their-stomach syndrome, like most men, they will over indulge and then suffer later.... and there's no Cherry Pepto or plop-plop-fizz-fizz for them. ;-) Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Dora Smith Sent: Sunday, June 07, 2009 10:56 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] HELP! I think I have White Spot My new betta, who has his own gallon and a half clear plastic salad container with beautiful fresh clear spring water, has a large blue-green-white slightly sunken spot on his face. I've had him for less than a day; he came from Petsmart in one of those little plastic things full of blue stuff. Not overly filthy. He has had six blood worms to eat. (Once he figured out they were food, which took overnight, he scarfed three extra worms I had dropped.) What's the best thing to treat it with? I put in the doses on the bottles of melafix and pima fix, decided it was too strong (at 1/2 ml/ gallon of each), and diluted by half. Yours, Dora Smith Austin, TX tiggernut24@...

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 40728	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 6/7/2009
Subject: Re: HELP! I think I have White Spot

Hmmmmm.. I wonder if Loaches.com knows they have a potential plagiarism problem. The link I had was for forum topic ending with 16721 and the one that Amber posted ended with 2599, which is an older forum post (BTW Amber, you can chop off all of the junk after the 2599 as that is all session ID info to track you and is not needed for the link). I removed it in your link below and it still works. But... as you will see, both my link and your link are IDENTICAL articles posted by two different forum members, one back in 2006 http://forums.loaches.com/viewtopic.php?t=2599 and the other more recently in 2009 http://forums.loaches.com/viewtopic.php?t=16721. I haven't compared them completely but they start off identically. I did a Google search on the first two sentences, "Ich, or White Spot, is a protozoan parasite that exists free floating in aquarium water. Because loaches have very tiny scales, they seem particularly susceptible to infection from Ich, although it can affect all aquarium fish." and then just on the first sentence, "Ich, or White Spot, is a protozoan parasite that exists free floating in aquarium water.", and it seems these two articles are only found on the Loaches.com site although there are copy/pasted references or unattributed copy/pastes to them on other sites but no plagiarism that I could find, except between the two posters on Loaches.com. I regularly do Google searches on snips from my articles and have found mine plagiarized on a few other sites over the years but I've never seen it done in the same exact forum before. That's a new one on me and I'm surprised nobody at Loaches.com has caught it in the five months that the second article has been up. LOL I see a potential for WW3 since one poster is from the UK and the other is from British Columbia. I'm not sure who we'll side with in this one. LOL Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Amber Berglund Sent: Sunday, June 07, 2009 10:50 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] HELP! I think I have White Spot Lenny's advice is still very valid you need to rehome those fish soon before they take over the tank and/or start eating the other fish. Even if those fish are small now they will grow with each feeding and water change that you give them. I have a red tailed catfish in my 125 gallon tank and it's already eaten several fish in a little over a month and he's only about 5 inches long. Don't underestimate any fish ;) I prefer to use the heat and salt treatment instead of meds, but with loaches they don't care for heat and salt very much, I have a good link for treating ich when you have loaches in your tank. http://forums.loaches.com/viewtopic.php?t=2599 Hope that helps, Amber kathy ragsdale wrote: > > > Ok first, they're are only 6 fish in the tank hun, they are all small > (1 -2 inch's) except for the pacu which is around 7inch's. No new fish > have been added as i got this tank already full and had removed 7 > cichlids from it. The catfish was around 3 inches and he was a Pictus > Cat. The Bush is a leopard and maybe 2 inches. the eels are around > 3". The Pacu is not by my choice but when i got the tank he was > already there so i've kept him and have recently bought two additional > 55 gallon tanks to separate them. However i want to cure this first. I > have checked out the sites already but they vary a bit from Ick meds > to Aquarium salt suggestions, i was wanting a "skilled" opinion first > hand. Any ideas that you know work? > > --- On Sun, 6/7/09, Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@... > <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com>> wrote: > > From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@... > <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com>> > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] HELP! I think I have White Spot > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Date: Sunday, June 7, 2009, 7:46 PM > > Here's a few GOOD and detailed articles on treating Ich (aka White Spot). > > http://aquatic- hobbyist. com/phpBB2/ viewtopic. php?t=17 > > http://www.skeptica laquarist. com/docs/ health/ich. shtml > > http://www.cichlid- forum.com/ articles/ ich.php > > Besides the obvious issues of having a severely overstocked tank, are > there > > any other issues that happened recently that would have caused the > outbreak? > > Ich is often brought on by a drastic fall in temperature of a tank and > this > > drastic fall in temperature stresses out the fish and makes them more > > susceptible to all sorts of parasites and bacteria that they might > have > > otherwise been able to fend off. Or have you added any new fish or > plants > > recently? Of course, overstocking a tank will also stress fish out and > > cause immune system and other health issues. > > I'm hoping you realize that even with one of your fish dying, you > still have > > around six fish too many in your tank. Was the catfish that dies the > Pleco? > > Or another catfish species? > > The Bichirs (which species? Most grow to 16"+), Clown Loach (should be > kept > > in groups of three or more and grow to 16"+), Pacu (grows to 30"+), > > Plecostomus (presuming this is a common pleco, grows to 18"+) and the > Bala > > Shark (grows to 16") EACH get much too large for a 55G tank, even for > a > > single fish and combined, you would need a multi-hundred gallon tank > for all > > of the fish except the Pacu, which itself would need a multi-hundred > gallon > > tank with a public aquarium sized home (or never being taken from the > wild) > > being the best place for this HUGE fish. > > The only fish that is suitable for your 55G is your Bush Fish, > presuming it > > is the Leopard Bush Fish or a similar species. > > http://en.wikipedia .org/wiki/ Ctenopoma_ acutirostre > > http://www.seriousl yfish.com/ profile.php? id=58 > > Here are some reputable profiles / care sheets on your other fish, > which > > need MUCH larger tanks... > > Pacu - http://fish. mongabay. com/species/ Colossoma_ macropomum. html > > Bala Shark - > > http://fish. mongabay. com/species/ Balantiocheilus_ melanopterus. > html > > Bichirs (you need to figure out your species... here's a list of > Bichir > > profiles) - http://www.seriousl yfish.com/ kb.php?t= pv&s=6.1 > (contains 2 pages > > of Bichir profiles) > > http://fish. mongabay. com/species/ Polypterus_ senegalus. html > > http://fish. mongabay. com/species/ Polypterus_ ornatipinnis. html > > http://fish. mongabay. com/polypteridid ae.htm > > Clown Loach - http://fish. mongabay. com/species/ Botia_macracanth > us.html > > Common Pleco - http://www.mongabay .com/fish/ loricariidae. htm (about > 1/2 way > > down this page) > > Lenny Vasbinder > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com > > (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the > right > > side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, > Month) > > -----Original Message----- > > From: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com [mailto:AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. > com] On > > Behalf Of kragsdale411 > > Sent: Sunday, June 07, 2009 8:55 PM > > To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com > > Subject: [AquaticLife] HELP! I think I have White Spot > > I have 2 bichir eels, a clown louche, a bush fish, a very large Pacu, > and a > > plecostomus and 1 bala shark in a 55 gallon aquarium. Yesterday I came > home > > to my catfish dead. Now, today they are all covered with what looks > like > > white bubbles. The shark's eyes appear as if he is blind as they are > > completely covered. The water temperature is @ 78 degrees .All fish > appear > > to be swimming and eating fine except for the Bush fish..he is hiding > in the > > cave but i see he is breathing. Normally he is very active. Although > the > > catfish was the night before and was dead the next morning in the cave. > > Please advise me. :) > > Thanks, Kat

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 40729	From: kathy ragsdale	Date: 6/8/2009
Subject: Re: HELP! I think I have White Spot

well, thanks for the help Lenny, so far so good after the water change , i think i panicked because my husband is out of town and he'd know what to do and the cichlids laid eggs too. phewwww baby-sitting fish will kill you!                                                Hugz, Kat

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 40730	From: sandi turner	Date: 6/8/2009
Subject: Re: python

Lenny!!! Where does that expression come from anyway? You do realize that babies don't sleep through the night don't you? I may be old enough to be a grandmother but I will never forget that all 4 of my boys got me up in the middle of the night and sometimes I was up all night with them!!! LOL Is this really how well you sleep? LOL   Sorry couldn't resist that one! :)   Sandi --- On Sun, 6/7/09, Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@...> wrote: From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@...> Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: python To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Date: Sunday, June 7, 2009, 9:55 PM LOL... nope.... sleeping like a baby tonight! ;-) Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com [mailto:AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com] On Behalf Of bill1433 Sent: Sunday, June 07, 2009 7:04 PM To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: python I just hope that you realize and fully understand all of the problems as well as the ramifications of this and your last post?   He's going to be up all night!   bill --- On Sun, 6/7/09, Steve Szabo <steve@familyszabo. com> wrote: > From: Steve Szabo <steve@familyszabo. com> > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: python > To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com > Date: Sunday, June 7, 2009, 7:13 PM > Piece of cake, for 5.9 ml in a 10 ml > measure, you need to just surpass > the 5 ml line by slightly less than 1/5 of the way between > 5 and 10 ml. > Or, for those not dexterous enough, apparently you Lenny, just fill to > 5 ml, dump, and then to just under the 1 ml line. > > \\Steve// > > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com > [mailto:AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com] > On Behalf Of Lenny V. aka GoldLenny > Sent: Sunday, June 07, 2009 5:09 PM > To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: python > > But trying to get 59/100'ths of a capful is the tough part... > especially when the cap is marked off with only 1ml, 5ml and 10ml > increments.  It's hard enough to get the 1ml or 5ml accurate. > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com (Links to any articles > referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically > under Labels and also under Archives by Year, > Month) > > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com > [mailto:AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com] > On > Behalf Of Steve Szabo > Sent: Sunday, June 07, 2009 12:16 PM > To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: python > > Mathematically, it is very simple to dose at 59%, you just > need 59/100 > of a > full dose. I don't think anyone else sees a problem with > that. > > \\Steve// > > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com > [mailto:AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com] > On Behalf Of Lenny V. aka GoldLenny > Sent: Sunday, June 07, 2009 1:03 PM > To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: python > > LOL.  That was one of my thoughts too.  \\Steve// > wouldn't want to do a > BIG > 60% PWC so he stops it at 59%. ;-)  Now, the trick is > trying to dose the > dechlor for the 59% PWC. LOL > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com (Links to > any articles > referenced > in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically > under Labels > and > also under Archives by Year, > Month) > > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com > [mailto:AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com] > On > Behalf Of bill1433 > Sent: Sunday, June 07, 2009 11:49 AM > To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: python > > > Because 59% is not 60%--------- -nobody does a 60% water > change! > > come Len!  Even I got that one! > > ol bill > > --- On Sun, 6/7/09, Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@gmail. com> > wrote: > > > From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@gmail. com> > > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: python > > To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com > > Date: Sunday, June 7, 2009, 12:36 PM > > OK \\Steve// > > > > ... why 59%? > > > > Or was that supposed to be 50% and just a typo? > > > > Inquiring minds want to know! LOL > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com (Links to > any articles > > referenced in above reply are listed on the right > side, alphabetically > > > under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com > > [mailto:AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com] > > On > > Behalf Of Steve Szabo > > Sent: Sunday, June 07, 2009 9:47 AM > > To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com > > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: python > > > > I usually just measure the tank itself, using a > height > > measurement to the > > normal fill mark of the water, and subtracting for > the > > glass. This gives you > > a fairly accurate rough measurement of the water > contained > > since it does not > > account for the space taken up by the substrate and > other > > decor, but it also > > does not include the water contained within the > filtering > > system. Once you > > have the measurements, just do the calculations > > (HLW/231=gallons where HWL > > are in inches). What I used to do was to then mark my > tanks > > with a marker to > > designate 10, 25, 33, and 59% water change levels so I > had > > a fairly accurate > > measurement rather than just eyeballing it and say, > well, > > that's 10% or > > whatever I was looking for. > > > > \\Steve// > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com > > [mailto:AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com] > > On > > Behalf Of turbocoupe76 > > Sent: Sunday, June 07, 2009 10:17 AM > > To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com > > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: python > > > > whats the best way to figure out how much water is > taken > > out of a tank. I > > have 1 150g tank so if i take out 40 gallons or 60 > gallons > > with the python > > it still looks realitivly the same. to correctly dose > the > > water and get the > > exact temp, I fill a 10 gallon tank thats located > above my > > 150 and syphon it > > into the tank. This is a slow and long proccess If i > could > > just fill the > > tank wiht the python it would make life easier. any > > ideas?? > > > > Thanks > > > > Tom > > > > > > --- In AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com, > > "Steve Szabo" <steve@...> wrote: > > > > > > There are quite a number of people using them, > and > > they do work. I add > > > my conditioning product to the water in the tank > prior > > to filling it > > > with the replacement water. > > > > > > \\Steve// > > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > From: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com > > [mailto:AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com] > > > On Behalf Of Courtland Jacob > > > Sent: Saturday, June 06, 2009 6:33 PM > > > To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com > > > Subject: [AquaticLife] python > > > > > > anyone use one of these vacs? do they work? is it > safe > > to use > > > considering that you can't add conditioner to > the > > water you are > > > adding, and that being said, when do you add > water > > conditioner when using > > it? [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 40731	From: Raymond Wetzel	Date: 6/8/2009
Subject: Re: HELP! I think I have White Spot

If giving advice in treating diseases, whether pro or con, please do not make blanket statements as referring to any "group" of fishes. While Loaches (any such species designated as such) do not like salt, many Botia are quite tolerant of higher temperatures. Clown Loaches will do nicely up to at least 92 o. At such temperatures, one does not even need to use salt in treating Ich, although salt can really be eliminated (if need be) from the treatment at any temperature above 86 o F; it will aid in the Ich treatment though, when it can be used. Ray --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, Amber Berglund <amber@...> wrote: > > Lenny's advice is still very valid you need to rehome those fish soon > before they take over the tank and/or start eating the other fish. Even > if those fish are small now they will grow with each feeding and water > change that you give them. I have a red tailed catfish in my 125 gallon > tank and it's already eaten several fish in a little over a month and > he's only about 5 inches long. Don't underestimate any fish ;) > > I prefer to use the heat and salt treatment instead of meds, but with > loaches they don't care for heat and salt very much, I have a good link > for treating ich when you have loaches in your tank. > http://forums.loaches.com/viewtopic.php?t=2599&sid=2dc58c9a427cffb4f70868cd88ea3bda > > Hope that helps, > Amber > > > kathy ragsdale wrote: > > > > > > Ok first, they're are only 6 fish in the tank hun, they are all small > > (1 -2 inch's) except for the pacu which is around 7inch's. No new fish > > have been added as i got this tank already full and had removed 7 > > cichlids from it. The catfish was around 3 inches and he was a Pictus > > Cat. The Bush is a leopard and maybe 2 inches. the eels are around > > 3". The Pacu is not by my choice but when i got the tank he was > > already there so i've kept him and have recently bought two additional > > 55 gallon tanks to separate them. However i want to cure this first. I > > have checked out the sites already but they vary a bit from Ick meds > > to Aquarium salt suggestions, i was wanting a "skilled" opinion first > > hand. Any ideas that you know work? > > > > --- On Sun, 6/7/09, Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@... > > <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com>> wrote: > > > > From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@... > > <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com>> > > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] HELP! I think I have White Spot > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > Date: Sunday, June 7, 2009, 7:46 PM > > > > Here's a few GOOD and detailed articles on treating Ich (aka White Spot). > > > > http://aquatic- hobbyist. com/phpBB2/ viewtopic. php?t=17 > > > > http://www.skeptica laquarist. com/docs/ health/ich. shtml > > > > http://www.cichlid- forum.com/ articles/ ich.php > > > > Besides the obvious issues of having a severely overstocked tank, are > > there > > > > any other issues that happened recently that would have caused the > > outbreak? > > > > Ich is often brought on by a drastic fall in temperature of a tank and > > this > > > > drastic fall in temperature stresses out the fish and makes them more > > > > susceptible to all sorts of parasites and bacteria that they might have > > > > otherwise been able to fend off. Or have you added any new fish or plants > > > > recently? Of course, overstocking a tank will also stress fish out and > > > > cause immune system and other health issues. > > > > I'm hoping you realize that even with one of your fish dying, you > > still have > > > > around six fish too many in your tank. Was the catfish that dies the > > Pleco? > > > > Or another catfish species? > > > > The Bichirs (which species? Most grow to 16"+), Clown Loach (should be > > kept > > > > in groups of three or more and grow to 16"+), Pacu (grows to 30"+), > > > > Plecostomus (presuming this is a common pleco, grows to 18"+) and the Bala > > > > Shark (grows to 16") EACH get much too large for a 55G tank, even for a > > > > single fish and combined, you would need a multi-hundred gallon tank > > for all > > > > of the fish except the Pacu, which itself would need a multi-hundred > > gallon > > > > tank with a public aquarium sized home (or never being taken from the > > wild) > > > > being the best place for this HUGE fish. > > > > The only fish that is suitable for your 55G is your Bush Fish, > > presuming it > > > > is the Leopard Bush Fish or a similar species. > > > > http://en.wikipedia .org/wiki/ Ctenopoma_ acutirostre > > > > http://www.seriousl yfish.com/ profile.php? id=58 > > > > Here are some reputable profiles / care sheets on your other fish, which > > > > need MUCH larger tanks... > > > > Pacu - http://fish. mongabay. com/species/ Colossoma_ macropomum. html > > > > Bala Shark - > > > > http://fish. mongabay. com/species/ Balantiocheilus_ melanopterus. html > > > > Bichirs (you need to figure out your species... here's a list of Bichir > > > > profiles) - http://www.seriousl yfish.com/ kb.php?t= pv&s=6.1 > > (contains 2 pages > > > > of Bichir profiles) > > > > http://fish. mongabay. com/species/ Polypterus_ senegalus. html > > > > http://fish. mongabay. com/species/ Polypterus_ ornatipinnis. html > > > > http://fish. mongabay. com/polypteridid ae.htm > > > > Clown Loach - http://fish. mongabay. com/species/ Botia_macracanth us.html > > > > Common Pleco - http://www.mongabay .com/fish/ loricariidae. htm (about > > 1/2 way > > > > down this page) > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com > > > > (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right > > > > side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > > From: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com [mailto:AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. > > com] On > > > > Behalf Of kragsdale411 > > > > Sent: Sunday, June 07, 2009 8:55 PM > > > > To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com > > > > Subject: [AquaticLife] HELP! I think I have White Spot > > > > I have 2 bichir eels, a clown louche, a bush fish, a very large Pacu, > > and a > > > > plecostomus and 1 bala shark in a 55 gallon aquarium. Yesterday I came > > home > > > > to my catfish dead. Now, today they are all covered with what looks like > > > > white bubbles. The shark's eyes appear as if he is blind as they are > > > > completely covered. The water temperature is @ 78 degrees .All fish appear > > > > to be swimming and eating fine except for the Bush fish..he is hiding > > in the > > > > cave but i see he is breathing. Normally he is very active. Although the > > > > catfish was the night before and was dead the next morning in the cave. > > > > Please advise me. :) > > > > Thanks, Kat > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 40732	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 6/8/2009
Subject: Re: HELP! I think I have White Spot

Okay since I don't know every fish then I guess I can't give advice, that seems to be what you're saying. I was quoting from the link I posted, which said that many loaches don't like heat and salt (especially salt). Guess I will leave advice for people who know every kind of fish and how they react, which means no one will ever get perfect advice :P Amber Raymond Wetzel wrote: > > > If giving advice in treating diseases, whether pro or con, please do > not make blanket statements as referring to any "group" of fishes. > While Loaches (any such species designated as such) do not like salt, > many Botia are quite tolerant of higher temperatures. Clown Loaches > will do nicely up to at least 92 o. At such temperatures, one does not > even need to use salt in treating Ich, although salt can really be > eliminated (if need be) from the treatment at any temperature above 86 > o F; it will aid in the Ich treatment though, when it can be used. Ray > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>, Amber Berglund <amber@...> wrote: > > > > Lenny's advice is still very valid you need to rehome those fish soon > > before they take over the tank and/or start eating the other fish. Even > > if those fish are small now they will grow with each feeding and water > > change that you give them. I have a red tailed catfish in my 125 gallon > > tank and it's already eaten several fish in a little over a month and > > he's only about 5 inches long. Don't underestimate any fish ;) > > > > I prefer to use the heat and salt treatment instead of meds, but with > > loaches they don't care for heat and salt very much, I have a good link > > for treating ich when you have loaches in your tank. > > > http://forums.loaches.com/viewtopic.php?t=2599&sid=2dc58c9a427cffb4f70868cd88ea3bda > <http://forums.loaches.com/viewtopic.php?t=2599&sid=2dc58c9a427cffb4f70868cd88ea3bda> > > > > Hope that helps, > > Amber > > > > > > kathy ragsdale wrote: > > > > > > > > > Ok first, they're are only 6 fish in the tank hun, they are all small > > > (1 -2 inch's) except for the pacu which is around 7inch's. No new > fish > > > have been added as i got this tank already full and had removed 7 > > > cichlids from it. The catfish was around 3 inches and he was a Pictus > > > Cat. The Bush is a leopard and maybe 2 inches. the eels are around > > > 3". The Pacu is not by my choice but when i got the tank he was > > > already there so i've kept him and have recently bought two > additional > > > 55 gallon tanks to separate them. However i want to cure this > first. I > > > have checked out the sites already but they vary a bit from Ick meds > > > to Aquarium salt suggestions, i was wanting a "skilled" opinion first > > > hand. Any ideas that you know work? > > > > > > --- On Sun, 6/7/09, Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@... > > > <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com>> wrote: > > > > > > From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@... > > > <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com>> > > > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] HELP! I think I have White Spot > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > Date: Sunday, June 7, 2009, 7:46 PM > > > > > > Here's a few GOOD and detailed articles on treating Ich (aka White > Spot). > > > > > > http://aquatic- hobbyist. com/phpBB2/ viewtopic. php?t=17 > > > > > > http://www.skeptica laquarist. com/docs/ health/ich. shtml > > > > > > http://www.cichlid- forum.com/ articles/ ich.php > > > > > > Besides the obvious issues of having a severely overstocked tank, are > > > there > > > > > > any other issues that happened recently that would have caused the > > > outbreak? > > > > > > Ich is often brought on by a drastic fall in temperature of a tank > and > > > this > > > > > > drastic fall in temperature stresses out the fish and makes them more > > > > > > susceptible to all sorts of parasites and bacteria that they might > have > > > > > > otherwise been able to fend off. Or have you added any new fish or > plants > > > > > > recently? Of course, overstocking a tank will also stress fish out and > > > > > > cause immune system and other health issues. > > > > > > I'm hoping you realize that even with one of your fish dying, you > > > still have > > > > > > around six fish too many in your tank. Was the catfish that dies the > > > Pleco? > > > > > > Or another catfish species? > > > > > > The Bichirs (which species? Most grow to 16"+), Clown Loach > (should be > > > kept > > > > > > in groups of three or more and grow to 16"+), Pacu (grows to 30"+), > > > > > > Plecostomus (presuming this is a common pleco, grows to 18"+) and > the Bala > > > > > > Shark (grows to 16") EACH get much too large for a 55G tank, even > for a > > > > > > single fish and combined, you would need a multi-hundred gallon tank > > > for all > > > > > > of the fish except the Pacu, which itself would need a multi-hundred > > > gallon > > > > > > tank with a public aquarium sized home (or never being taken from the > > > wild) > > > > > > being the best place for this HUGE fish. > > > > > > The only fish that is suitable for your 55G is your Bush Fish, > > > presuming it > > > > > > is the Leopard Bush Fish or a similar species. > > > > > > http://en.wikipedia .org/wiki/ Ctenopoma_ acutirostre > > > > > > http://www.seriousl yfish.com/ profile.php? id=58 > > > > > > Here are some reputable profiles / care sheets on your other fish, > which > > > > > > need MUCH larger tanks... > > > > > > Pacu - http://fish. mongabay. com/species/ Colossoma_ macropomum. html > > > > > > Bala Shark - > > > > > > http://fish. mongabay. com/species/ Balantiocheilus_ melanopterus. > html > > > > > > Bichirs (you need to figure out your species... here's a list of > Bichir > > > > > > profiles) - http://www.seriousl yfish.com/ kb.php?t= pv&s=6.1 > > > (contains 2 pages > > > > > > of Bichir profiles) > > > > > > http://fish. mongabay. com/species/ Polypterus_ senegalus. html > > > > > > http://fish. mongabay. com/species/ Polypterus_ ornatipinnis. html > > > > > > http://fish. mongabay. com/polypteridid ae.htm > > > > > > Clown Loach - http://fish. mongabay. com/species/ Botia_macracanth > us.html > > > > > > Common Pleco - http://www.mongabay .com/fish/ loricariidae. htm > (about > > > 1/2 way > > > > > > down this page) > > > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > > > > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com > > > > > > (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the > right > > > > > > side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, > Month) > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > > > > From: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com [mailto:AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. > > > com] On > > > > > > Behalf Of kragsdale411 > > > > > > Sent: Sunday, June 07, 2009 8:55 PM > > > > > > To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com > > > > > > Subject: [AquaticLife] HELP! I think I have White Spot > > > > > > I have 2 bichir eels, a clown louche, a bush fish, a very large Pacu, > > > and a > > > > > > plecostomus and 1 bala shark in a 55 gallon aquarium. Yesterday I > came > > > home > > > > > > to my catfish dead. Now, today they are all covered with what > looks like > > > > > > white bubbles. The shark's eyes appear as if he is blind as they are > > > > > > completely covered. The water temperature is @ 78 degrees .All > fish appear > > > > > > to be swimming and eating fine except for the Bush fish..he is hiding > > > in the > > > > > > cave but i see he is breathing. Normally he is very active. > Although the > > > > > > catfish was the night before and was dead the next morning in the > cave. > > > > > > Please advise me. :) > > > > > > Thanks, Kat > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > > > > > > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 40733	From: toddswoman496861@aim.com	Date: 6/8/2009
Subject: Re: HELP! I think I have White Spot

amber I love reading the advise you give Kate Dale -----Original Message----- From: Amber Berglund <amber@...> To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Mon, 8 Jun 2009 11:15 am Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: HELP! I think I have White Spot Okay since I don't know every fish then I guess I can't give advice, that seems to be what you're saying. I was quoting from the link I posted, which said that many loaches don't like heat and salt (especially salt). Guess I will leave advice for people who know every kind of fish and how they react, which means no one will ever get perfect advice :P Amber Raymond Wetzel wrote: > > > If giving advice in treating diseases, whether pro or con, please do > not make blanket statements as referring to any "group" of fishes. > While Loaches (any such species designated as such) do not like salt, > many Botia are quite tolerant of higher temperatures. Clown Loaches > will do nicely up to at least 92 o. At such temperatures, one does not > even need to use salt in treating Ich, although salt can really be > eliminated (if need be) from the treatment at any temperature above 86 > o F; it will aid in the Ich treatment though, when it can be used. Ray > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>, Amber Berglund <amber@...> wrote: > > > > Lenny's advice is still very valid you need to rehome those fish soon > > before they take over the t ank and/or start eating the other fish. Even > > if those fish are small now they will grow with each feeding and water > > change that you give them. I have a red tailed catfish in my 125 gallon > > tank and it's already eaten several fish in a little over a month and > > he's only about 5 inches long. Don't underestimate any fish ;) > > > > I prefer to use the heat and salt treatment instead of meds, but with > > loaches they don't care for heat and salt very much, I have a good link > > for treating ich when you have loaches in your tank. > > > http://forums.loaches.com/viewtopic.php?t=2599&sid=2dc58c9a427cffb4f70868cd88ea3bda > <http://forums.loaches.com/viewtopic.php?t=2599&sid=2dc58c9a427cffb4f70868cd88ea3bda> > > > > Hope that helps, > > Amber > > > > > > kathy ragsdale wrote: > > > > > > > > > Ok first, they're are only 6 fish in the tank hun, they are all small > > > (1 -2 inch's) except for the pacu which is around 7inch's. No new > fish > > > have been added as i got this tank already full and had removed 7 > > > cichlids from it. The catfish was around 3 inches and he was a Pictus > > > Cat. The Bush is a leopard and maybe 2 inches. the eels are around > > > 3". The Pacu is not by my choice but when i got the tank he was > > > already there so i've kept him and have recently bought two > additional > > > 55 gallon tanks to separate them. However i want to cure this > first. I > > > have checked out=2 0the sites already but they vary a bit from Ick meds > > > to Aquarium salt suggestions, i was wanting a "skilled" opinion first > > > hand. Any ideas that you know work? > > > > > > --- On Sun, 6/7/09, Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@... > > > <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com>> wrote: > > > > > > From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@... > > > <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com>> > > > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] HELP! I think I have White Spot > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > Date: Sunday, June 7, 2009, 7:46 PM > > > > > > Here's a few GOOD and detailed articles on treating Ich (aka White > Spot). > > > > > > http://aquatic- hobbyist. com/phpBB2/ viewtopic. php?t=17 > > > > > > http://www.skeptica laquarist. com/docs/ health/ich. shtml > > > > > > http://www.cichlid- forum.com/ articles/ ich.php > > > > > > Besides the obvious issues of having a severely overstocked tank, are > > > there > > > > > > any other issues that happened recently that would have caused the > > > outbreak? > > > > > > Ich is often brought on by a drastic fall in temperature of a tank > and > > > this > > > > > > drastic fall in temperature stresses out the fish and makes them more > > > > > > susceptible to all sorts of parasites and bacteria that they might > have > > > > > > otherwise been able to fend off. Or have you added any new fish or > plants > > > > > > r ecently? Of course, overstocking a tank will also stress fish out and > > > > > > cause immune system and other health issues. > > > > > > I'm hoping you realize that even with one of your fish dying, you > > > still have > > > > > > around six fish too many in your tank. Was the catfish that dies the > > > Pleco? > > > > > > Or another catfish species? > > > > > > The Bichirs (which species? Most grow to 16"+), Clown Loach > (should be > > > kept > > > > > > in groups of three or more and grow to 16"+), Pacu (grows to 30"+), > > > > > > Plecostomus (presuming this is a common pleco, grows to 18"+) and > the Bala > > > > > > Shark (grows to 16") EACH get much too large for a 55G tank, even > for a > > > > > > single fish and combined, you would need a multi-hundred gallon tank > > > for all > > > > > > of the fish except the Pacu, which itself would need a multi-hundred > > > gallon > > > > > > tank with a public aquarium sized home (or never being taken from the > > > wild) > > > > > > being the best place for this HUGE fish. > > > > > > The only fish that is suitable for your 55G is your Bush Fish, > > > presuming it > > > > > > is the Leopard Bush Fish or a similar species. > > > > > > http://en.wikipedia .org/wiki/ Ctenopoma_ acutirostre > > > > > > http://www.seriousl yfish.com/ profile.php? id=58 > > > > > > Here are some reputable profiles / care sheets on yo ur other fish, > which > > > > > > need MUCH larger tanks... > > > > > > Pacu - http://fish. mongabay. com/species/ Colossoma_ macropomum. html > > > > > > Bala Shark - > > > > > > http://fish. mongabay. com/species/ Balantiocheilus_ melanopterus. > html > > > > > > Bichirs (you need to figure out your species... here's a list of > Bichir > > > > > > profiles) - http://www.seriousl yfish.com/ kb.php?t= pv&s=6.1 > > > (contains 2 pages > > > > > > of Bichir profiles) > > > > > > http://fish. mongabay. com/species/ Polypterus_ senegalus. html > > > > > > http://fish. mongabay. com/species/ Polypterus_ ornatipinnis. html > > > > > > http://fish. mongabay. com/polypteridid ae.htm > > > > > > Clown Loach - http://fish. mongabay. com/species/ Botia_macracanth > us.html > > > > > > Common Pleco - http://www.mongabay .com/fish/ loricariidae. htm > (about > > > 1/2 way > > > > > > down this page) > > > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > > > > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com > > > > > > (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the > right > > > > > > side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, > Month) > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > > > > From: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com [mailto:AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. > > > com] On > > > > > > Behalf Of kragsdale411 > > > > > > Sent: Sunday, June 07, 2009 8:55 PM > > > > > > To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com > > > > > > Subject: [AquaticLife] HELP! I think I have White Spot > > > > > > I have 2 bichir eels, a clown louche, a bush fish, a very large Pacu, > > > and a > > > > > > plecostomus and 1 bala shark in a 55 gallon aquarium. Yesterday I > came > > > home > > > > > > to my catfish dead. Now, today they are all covered with what > looks like > > > > > > white bubbles. The shark's eyes appear as if he is blind as they are > > > > > > completely covered. The water temperature is @ 78 degrees .All > fish appear > > > > > > to be swimming and eating fine except for the Bush fish..he is hiding > > > in the > > > > > > cave but i see he is breathing. Normally he is very active. > Although the > > > > > > catfish was the night before and was dead the next morning in the > cave. > > > > > > Please advise me. :) > > > > > > Thanks, Kat > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > > > > > > > ------------------------------------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the home page. Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com to receive the digest, which includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com for the No E-Mail option where you will still be able to read messages on the group and post replies. Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com to receive individual e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 40734	From: kim	Date: 6/8/2009
Subject: wierd

i dunno if im just lucky or what but ive had fish 3 years now i started with bettas i had 19 then i got a few goldfish i was tired of the boring looks and colors so i got a few cichlids i loved them they get huge and come in so many colors and sizes so i fed my bettas and gold fish to my cichlids now i have 44 tanks of cichlids from 120 gl to 5 gl mostly 55 gls and 30s i have never ever not once tested a thing ever i just go buy a tank fill it throw in fish the same day . ive never had any die unless got eaten by another vicious cichlid.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 40735	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 6/8/2009
Subject: Re: python

Hey... I didn't invent that saying... and yes, I know this below quote, by Leo J. Burke, is more applicable to babies... and yes, it's also been a while since I've had a baby in the house but I know what you mean. http://www.quotationspage.com/quote/23519.html "People who say they sleep like a baby usually don't have one." Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of sandi turner Sent: Monday, June 08, 2009 5:09 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: python Lenny!!! Where does that expression come from anyway? You do realize that babies don't sleep through the night don't you? I may be old enough to be a grandmother but I will never forget that all 4 of my boys got me up in the middle of the night and sometimes I was up all night with them!!! LOL Is this really how well you sleep? LOL   Sorry couldn't resist that one! :)   Sandi --- On Sun, 6/7/09, Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@...> wrote: From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@...> Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: python To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Date: Sunday, June 7, 2009, 9:55 PM LOL... nope.... sleeping like a baby tonight! ;-) Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com [mailto:AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com] On Behalf Of bill1433 Sent: Sunday, June 07, 2009 7:04 PM To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: python I just hope that you realize and fully understand all of the problems as well as the ramifications of this and your last post?   He's going to be up all night!   bill --- On Sun, 6/7/09, Steve Szabo <steve@familyszabo. com> wrote: > From: Steve Szabo <steve@familyszabo. com> > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: python > To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com > Date: Sunday, June 7, 2009, 7:13 PM > Piece of cake, for 5.9 ml in a 10 ml > measure, you need to just surpass > the 5 ml line by slightly less than 1/5 of the way between > 5 and 10 ml. > Or, for those not dexterous enough, apparently you Lenny, just fill to > 5 ml, dump, and then to just under the 1 ml line. > > \\Steve// > > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com > [mailto:AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com] > On Behalf Of Lenny V. aka GoldLenny > Sent: Sunday, June 07, 2009 5:09 PM > To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: python > > But trying to get 59/100'ths of a capful is the tough part... > especially when the cap is marked off with only 1ml, 5ml and 10ml > increments.  It's hard enough to get the 1ml or 5ml accurate. > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com (Links to any articles > referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically > under Labels and also under Archives by Year, > Month) > > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com > [mailto:AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com] > On > Behalf Of Steve Szabo > Sent: Sunday, June 07, 2009 12:16 PM > To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: python > > Mathematically, it is very simple to dose at 59%, you just > need 59/100 > of a > full dose. I don't think anyone else sees a problem with > that. > > \\Steve// > > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com > [mailto:AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com] > On Behalf Of Lenny V. aka GoldLenny > Sent: Sunday, June 07, 2009 1:03 PM > To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: python > > LOL.  That was one of my thoughts too.  \\Steve// > wouldn't want to do a > BIG > 60% PWC so he stops it at 59%. ;-)  Now, the trick is > trying to dose the > dechlor for the 59% PWC. LOL > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com (Links to > any articles > referenced > in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically > under Labels > and > also under Archives by Year, > Month) > > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com > [mailto:AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com] > On > Behalf Of bill1433 > Sent: Sunday, June 07, 2009 11:49 AM > To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: python > > > Because 59% is not 60%--------- -nobody does a 60% water > change! > > come Len!  Even I got that one! > > ol bill > > --- On Sun, 6/7/09, Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@gmail. com> > wrote: > > > From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@gmail. com> > > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: python > > To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com > > Date: Sunday, June 7, 2009, 12:36 PM > > OK \\Steve// > > > > ... why 59%? > > > > Or was that supposed to be 50% and just a typo? > > > > Inquiring minds want to know! LOL > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com (Links to > any articles > > referenced in above reply are listed on the right > side, alphabetically > > > under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month)

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 40736	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 6/8/2009
Subject: Re: wierd

Well, you know the old saying... "If it ain't broke, don't fix it!"... but if you do have a problem, which many posters to forums do have, then that is where a test kit will at least let you (or rather the folks trying to help) know some of what might be causing the problem. I'm presuming you have well water? I'm also presuming you are putting a cycled filter on the tank? Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of kim Sent: Monday, June 08, 2009 8:40 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] wierd i dunno if im just lucky or what but ive had fish 3 years now i started with bettas i had 19 then i got a few goldfish i was tired of the boring looks and colors so i got a few cichlids i loved them they get huge and come in so many colors and sizes so i fed my bettas and gold fish to my cichlids now i have 44 tanks of cichlids from 120 gl to 5 gl mostly 55 gls and 30s i have never ever not once tested a thing ever i just go buy a tank fill it throw in fish the same day . ive never had any die unless got eaten by another vicious cichlid.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 40737	From: janis_chrystal	Date: 6/8/2009
Subject: ick

my fish have ick, do I feed them during this treatment and should I take the plants out..I have to treat at half dose, because of my catfish...this will probably take 2 weeks I am guessing Thanks Janis MY 46 gal tank 8 albino glowlight tetra 6 neon tetra 6 flame tetra 1 catfish 2 cory catfish

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 40738	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 6/8/2009
Subject: Re: ich

I didn't take my plants out but I used the heat and salt treatment when I treated for ich (I also have a UV sterilizer going on the tank). I lost a couple of plants during the high temps and salt treatment, and quite a few of my crypts and swords "melted" during the high temps, but after the temps were lowered they started to grow back within a week or so. What medication treatment are you planning for your tank? Cory's don't do well with salt added to their tank. What is your "1 catfish"? Do you happen to at least know the common name of it if you don't know the scientific name? Amber janis_chrystal wrote: > > > my fish have ick, do I feed them during this treatment and should I > take the plants out..I have to treat at half dose, because of my > catfish...this will probably take 2 weeks I am guessing Thanks Janis > MY 46 gal tank > 8 albino glowlight tetra > 6 neon tetra > 6 flame tetra > 1 catfish > 2 cory catfish > > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 40739	From: jan1213@aol.com	Date: 6/8/2009
Subject: Re: ich

I was going to use ick out by wardley 2 corydoral catfish and 1 plecosdomus we had 2 but I found one dead this morning I am waiting to see if what I am doing is okay...befor I treat In a message dated 6/8/2009 4:56:45 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time, amber@... writes: I didn't take my plants out but I used the heat and salt treatment when I treated for ich (I also have a UV sterilizer going on the tank). I lost a couple of plants during the high temps and salt treatment, and quite a few of my crypts and swords "melted" during the high temps, but after the temps were lowered they started to grow back within a week or so. What medication treatment are you planning for your tank? Cory's don't do well with salt added to their tank. What is your "1 catfish"? Do you happen to at least know the common name of it if you don't know the scientific name? Amber janis_chrystal wrote: > > > my fish have ick, do I feed them during this treatment and should I > take the plants out..I have to treat at half dose, because of my > catfish...this will probably take 2 weeks I am guessing Thanks Janis > MY 46 gal tank > 8 albino glowlight tetra > 6 neon tetra > 6 flame tetra > 1 catfish > 2 cory catfish > > > **************Download the AOL Classifieds Toolbar for local deals at your fingertips. (http://toolbar.aol.com/aolclassifieds/download.html?ncid=emlcntusdown00000004) [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 40740	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 6/8/2009
Subject: Re: HELP! I think I have White Spot

Thanks Kate, I think I woke up on the wrong side of the bed this morning ;) Sorry I was so snappy this morning Ray, I didn't sleep well. My hubby often says I'm mean in the mornings perhaps I should wait to check my email until lunchtime ;) LOL. Amber toddswoman496861@... wrote: > > > amber I love reading the advise you give > > Kate Dale > > -----Original Message----- > From: Amber Berglund <amber@... > <mailto:amber%40rose-fields.com>> > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Sent: Mon, 8 Jun 2009 11:15 am > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: HELP! I think I have White Spot > > Okay since I don't know every fish then I guess I can't give advice, > that seems to be what you're saying. I was quoting from the link I > posted, which said that many loaches don't like heat and salt > (especially salt). > Guess I will leave advice for people who know every kind of fish and how > they react, which means no one will ever get perfect advice :P > > Amber > > Raymond Wetzel wrote: > > > > > > If giving advice in treating diseases, whether pro or con, please do > > not make blanket statements as referring to any "group" of fishes. > > While Loaches (any such species designated as such) do not like salt, > > many Botia are quite tolerant of higher temperatures. Clown Loaches > > will do nicely up to at least 92 o. At such temperatures, one does not > > even need to use salt in treating Ich, although salt can really be > > eliminated (if need be) from the treatment at any temperature above 86 > > o F; it will aid in the Ich treatment though, when it can be used. Ray > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>, Amber Berglund <amber@...> > wrote: > > > > > > Lenny's advice is still very valid you need to rehome those fish soon > > > before they take over the t > ank and/or start eating the other fish. Even > > > if those fish are small now they will grow with each feeding and water > > > change that you give them. I have a red tailed catfish in my 125 > gallon > > > tank and it's already eaten several fish in a little over a month and > > > he's only about 5 inches long. Don't underestimate any fish ;) > > > > > > I prefer to use the heat and salt treatment instead of meds, but with > > > loaches they don't care for heat and salt very much, I have a good > link > > > for treating ich when you have loaches in your tank. > > > > > > http://forums.loaches.com/viewtopic.php?t=2599&sid=2dc58c9a427cffb4f70868cd88ea3bda > <http://forums.loaches.com/viewtopic.php?t=2599&sid=2dc58c9a427cffb4f70868cd88ea3bda> > > > > > <http://forums.loaches.com/viewtopic.php?t=2599&sid=2dc58c9a427cffb4f70868cd88ea3bda > <http://forums.loaches.com/viewtopic.php?t=2599&sid=2dc58c9a427cffb4f70868cd88ea3bda>> > > > > > > Hope that helps, > > > Amber > > > > > > > > > kathy ragsdale wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > Ok first, they're are only 6 fish in the tank hun, they are all > small > > > > (1 -2 inch's) except for the pacu which is around 7inch's. No new > > fish > > > > have been added as i got this tank already full and had removed 7 > > > > cichlids from it. The catfish was around 3 inches and he was a > Pictus > > > > Cat. The Bush is a leopard and maybe 2 inches. the eels are around > > > > 3". The Pacu is not by my choice but when i got the tank he was > > > > already there so i've kept him and have recently bought two > > additional > > > > 55 gallon tanks to separate them. However i want to cure this > > first. I > > > > have checked out=2 > 0the sites already but they vary a bit from Ick meds > > > > to Aquarium salt suggestions, i was wanting a "skilled" opinion > first > > > > hand. Any ideas that you know work? > > > > > > > > --- On Sun, 6/7/09, Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@... > > > > <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com>> wrote: > > > > > > > > From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@... > > > > <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com>> > > > > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] HELP! I think I have White Spot > > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > Date: Sunday, June 7, 2009, 7:46 PM > > > > > > > > Here's a few GOOD and detailed articles on treating Ich (aka White > > Spot). > > > > > > > > http://aquatic- hobbyist. com/phpBB2/ viewtopic. php?t=17 > > > > > > > > http://www.skeptica laquarist. com/docs/ health/ich. shtml > > > > > > > > http://www.cichlid- forum.com/ articles/ ich.php > > > > > > > > Besides the obvious issues of having a severely overstocked > tank, are > > > > there > > > > > > > > any other issues that happened recently that would have caused the > > > > outbreak? > > > > > > > > Ich is often brought on by a drastic fall in temperature of a tank > > and > > > > this > > > > > > > > drastic fall in temperature stresses out the fish and makes them > more > > > > > > > > susceptible to all sorts of parasites and bacteria that they might > > have > > > > > > > > otherwise been able to fend off. Or have you added any new fish or > > plants > > > > > > > > r > ecently? Of course, overstocking a tank will also stress fish out and > > > > > > > > cause immune system and other health issues. > > > > > > > > I'm hoping you realize that even with one of your fish dying, you > > > > still have > > > > > > > > around six fish too many in your tank. Was the catfish that dies the > > > > Pleco? > > > > > > > > Or another catfish species? > > > > > > > > The Bichirs (which species? Most grow to 16"+), Clown Loach > > (should be > > > > kept > > > > > > > > in groups of three or more and grow to 16"+), Pacu (grows to 30"+), > > > > > > > > Plecostomus (presuming this is a common pleco, grows to 18"+) and > > the Bala > > > > > > > > Shark (grows to 16") EACH get much too large for a 55G tank, even > > for a > > > > > > > > single fish and combined, you would need a multi-hundred gallon tank > > > > for all > > > > > > > > of the fish except the Pacu, which itself would need a multi-hundred > > > > gallon > > > > > > > > tank with a public aquarium sized home (or never being taken > from the > > > > wild) > > > > > > > > being the best place for this HUGE fish. > > > > > > > > The only fish that is suitable for your 55G is your Bush Fish, > > > > presuming it > > > > > > > > is the Leopard Bush Fish or a similar species. > > > > > > > > http://en.wikipedia .org/wiki/ Ctenopoma_ acutirostre > > > > > > > > http://www.seriousl yfish.com/ profile.php? id=58 > > > > > > > > Here are some reputable profiles / care sheets on yo > ur other fish, > > which > > > > > > > > need MUCH larger tanks... > > > > > > > > Pacu - http://fish. mongabay. com/species/ Colossoma_ > macropomum. html > > > > > > > > Bala Shark - > > > > > > > > http://fish. mongabay. com/species/ Balantiocheilus_ melanopterus. > > html > > > > > > > > Bichirs (you need to figure out your species... here's a list of > > Bichir > > > > > > > > profiles) - http://www.seriousl yfish.com/ kb.php?t= pv&s=6.1 > > > > (contains 2 pages > > > > > > > > of Bichir profiles) > > > > > > > > http://fish. mongabay. com/species/ Polypterus_ senegalus. html > > > > > > > > http://fish. mongabay. com/species/ Polypterus_ ornatipinnis. html > > > > > > > > http://fish. mongabay. com/polypteridid ae.htm > > > > > > > > Clown Loach - http://fish. mongabay. com/species/ Botia_macracanth > > us.html > > > > > > > > Common Pleco - http://www.mongabay .com/fish/ loricariidae. htm > > (about > > > > 1/2 way > > > > > > > > down this page) > > > > > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > > > > > > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com > > > > > > > > (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the > > right > > > > > > > > side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, > > Month) > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > > > > > > From: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com [mailto:AquaticLife@ > yahoogroups. > > > > com] On > > > > > > > > Behalf Of kragsdale411 > > > > > > > > Sent: Sunday, June 07, 2009 8:55 PM > > > > > > > > To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com > > > > > > > > > Subject: [AquaticLife] HELP! I think I have White Spot > > > > > > > > I have 2 bichir eels, a clown louche, a bush fish, a very large > Pacu, > > > > and a > > > > > > > > plecostomus and 1 bala shark in a 55 gallon aquarium. Yesterday I > > came > > > > home > > > > > > > > to my catfish dead. Now, today they are all covered with what > > looks like > > > > > > > > white bubbles. The shark's eyes appear as if he is blind as they are > > > > > > > > completely covered. The water temperature is @ 78 degrees .All > > fish appear > > > > > > > > to be swimming and eating fine except for the Bush fish..he is > hiding > > > > in the > > > > > > > > cave but i see he is breathing. Normally he is very active. > > Although the > > > > > > > > catfish was the night before and was dead the next morning in the > > cave. > > > > > > > > Please advise me. :) > > > > > > > > Thanks, Kat > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ------------------------------------ > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. > ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> > PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT > important to the > reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC > of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> > i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- > <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. > > If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of unsubscribing, > you can > change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the > home > page. > > Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:aquaticlife-digest%40yahoogroups.com> to receive the digest, > which > includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email > > Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:aquaticlife-nomail%40yahoogroups.com> for the No E-Mail option > where you > will still be able to read messages on the group and post replies. > > Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:aquaticlife-normal%40yahoogroups.com> to receive individual > e-mails.Yahoo! > Groups Links > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 40741	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 6/8/2009
Subject: Re: ich

I have never used ick out by wardley, do they list the ingredients on the package? Do you have common pleco's? A lot of fish stores sell them as "common pleco" or as mine calls them "sailfin pleco's", they get very big and once yours gets over 4-5 inches you might want to start thinking about seeing if your fish store will trade him/her in for a baby one. Lenny's fish store will do this but mine won't ;) It all depends on your LFS I suppose, mine uses possible contamination as a reason for not trading fish back in, he brings up any excuse he can basically, I wish I had another fish store on my island. Amber jan1213@... wrote: > > > I was going to use ick out by wardley > 2 corydoral catfish and 1 plecosdomus we had 2 but I found one dead this > morning > I am waiting to see if what I am doing is okay...befor I treat > > > In a message dated 6/8/2009 4:56:45 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time, > amber@... <mailto:amber%40rose-fields.com> writes: > > I didn't take my plants out but I used the heat and salt treatment when > I treated for ich (I also have a UV sterilizer going on the tank). I > lost a couple of plants during the high temps and salt treatment, and > quite a few of my crypts and swords "melted" during the high temps, but > after the temps were lowered they started to grow back within a week > or so. > What medication treatment are you planning for your tank? Cory's don't > do well with salt added to their tank. What is your "1 catfish"? Do you > happen to at least know the common name of it if you don't know the > scientific name? > > Amber > > janis_chrystal wrote: > > > > > > my fish have ick, do I feed them during this treatment and should I > > take the plants out..I have to treat at half dose, because of my > > catfish...this will probably take 2 weeks I am guessing Thanks Janis > > MY 46 gal tank > > 8 albino glowlight tetra > > 6 neon tetra > > 6 flame tetra > > 1 catfish > > 2 cory catfish > > > > > > > > **************Download the AOL Classifieds Toolbar for local deals at > your > fingertips. > (http://toolbar.aol.com/aolclassifieds/download.html?ncid=emlcntusdown00000004 > <http://toolbar.aol.com/aolclassifieds/download.html?ncid=emlcntusdown00000004>) > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 40742	From: jan1213@aol.com	Date: 6/8/2009
Subject: Re: ich

the ingredients are formaldehyde 5.55% inert ingredients 94.45% is this okay In a message dated 6/8/2009 5:27:14 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time, amber@... writes: I have never used ick out by wardley, do they list the ingredients on the package? Do you have common pleco's? A lot of fish stores sell them as "common pleco" or as mine calls them "sailfin pleco's", they get very big and once yours gets over 4-5 inches you might want to start thinking about seeing if your fish store will trade him/her in for a baby one. Lenny's fish store will do this but mine won't ;) It all depends on your LFS I suppose, mine uses possible contamination as a reason for not trading fish back in, he brings up any excuse he can basically, I wish I had another fish store on my island. Amber _jan1213@..._ (mailto:jan1213@...) wrote: > > > I was going to use ick out by wardley > 2 corydoral catfish and 1 plecosdomus we had 2 but I found one dead this > morning > I am waiting to see if what I am doing is okay...befor I treat > > > In a message dated 6/8/2009 4:56:45 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time, > _amber@..._ (mailto:amber@...) <mailto:amber%mailto:amber%mai> writes: > > I didn't take my plants out but I used the heat and salt treatment when > I treated for ich (I also have a UV sterilizer going on the tank). I > lost a couple of plants during the high temps and salt treatment, and > quite a few of my crypts and swords "melted" during the high temps, but > after the temps were lowered they started to grow back within a week > or so. > What medication treatment are you planning for your tank? Cory's don't > do well with salt added to their tank. What is your "1 catfish"? Do you > happen to at least know the common name of it if you don't know the > scientific name? > > Amber > > janis_chrystal wrote: > > > > > > my fish have ick, do I feed them during this treatment and should I > > take the plants out..I have to treat at half dose, because of my > > catfish...this will probably take 2 weeks I am guessing Thanks Janis > > MY 46 gal tank > > 8 albino glowlight tetra > > 6 neon tetra > > 6 flame tetra > > 1 catfish > > 2 cory catfish > > > > > > > > ************ ************<WBR>**Download the AOL Classifieds Toolbar f > your > fingertips. > (_http://toolbar.http://toolbar.http://toolbar.http://toohttp://toolbar.http_ (http://toolbar.aol.com/aolclassifieds/download.html?ncid=emlcntusdown00000004) > <_http://toolbar.http://toolbar.http://toolbar.http://toohttp://toolbar.http_ (http://toolbar.aol.com/aolclassifieds/download.html?ncid=emlcntusdown00000004) >) > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > **************Download the AOL Classifieds Toolbar for local deals at your fingertips. (http://toolbar.aol.com/aolclassifieds/download.html?ncid=emlcntusdown00000004) [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 40743	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 6/8/2009
Subject: Re: ich

I'm not sure myself. I can only assume that formaldehyde is a form of formalin, malachite green (sometimes called malachite blue) is usually also used. Perhaps we should wait for someone who is familiar with ich out by wardley? Amber jan1213@... wrote: > > > > the ingredients are formaldehyde 5.55% inert ingredients 94.45% is this > okay > > In a message dated 6/8/2009 5:27:14 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time, > amber@... <mailto:amber%40rose-fields.com> writes: > > I have never used ick out by wardley, do they list the ingredients on > the package? > Do you have common pleco's? A lot of fish stores sell them as "common > pleco" or as mine calls them "sailfin pleco's", they get very big and > once yours gets over 4-5 inches you might want to start thinking about > seeing if your fish store will trade him/her in for a baby one. Lenny's > fish store will do this but mine won't ;) It all depends on your LFS I > suppose, mine uses possible contamination as a reason for not trading > fish back in, he brings up any excuse he can basically, I wish I had > another fish store on my island. > > Amber > > _jan1213@... <mailto:_jan1213%40aol.jan>_ (mailto:jan1213@... > <mailto:jan1213%40aol.com>) wrote: > > > > > > I was going to use ick out by wardley > > 2 corydoral catfish and 1 plecosdomus we had 2 but I found one dead this > > morning > > I am waiting to see if what I am doing is okay...befor I treat > > > > > > In a message dated 6/8/2009 4:56:45 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time, > > _amber@... <mailto:_amber%40rose-fields.amb>_ > (mailto:amber@... <mailto:amber%40rose-fields.com>) > <mailto:amber%mailto:amber%mai> writes: > > > > I didn't take my plants out but I used the heat and salt treatment when > > I treated for ich (I also have a UV sterilizer going on the tank). I > > lost a couple of plants during the high temps and salt treatment, and > > quite a few of my crypts and swords "melted" during the high temps, but > > after the temps were lowered they started to grow back within a week > > or so. > > What medication treatment are you planning for your tank? Cory's don't > > do well with salt added to their tank. What is your "1 catfish"? Do you > > happen to at least know the common name of it if you don't know the > > scientific name? > > > > Amber > > > > janis_chrystal wrote: > > > > > > > > > my fish have ick, do I feed them during this treatment and should I > > > take the plants out..I have to treat at half dose, because of my > > > catfish...this will probably take 2 weeks I am guessing Thanks Janis > > > MY 46 gal tank > > > 8 albino glowlight tetra > > > 6 neon tetra > > > 6 flame tetra > > > 1 catfish > > > 2 cory catfish > > > > > > > > > > > > > ************ ************<WBR>**Download the AOL Classifieds Toolbar f > > your > > fingertips. > > > (_http://toolbar.http://toolbar.http://toolbar.http://toohttp://toolbar.http_ > <http://toolbar.http://toolbar.http://toolbar.http://toohttp://toolbar.http_> > > (http://toolbar.aol.com/aolclassifieds/download.html?ncid=emlcntusdown00000004 > <http://toolbar.aol.com/aolclassifieds/download.html?ncid=emlcntusdown00000004>) > > > > <_http://toolbar.http://toolbar.http://toolbar.http://toohttp://toolbar.http_ > <http://toolbar.http://toolbar.http://toolbar.http://toohttp://toolbar.http_> > > (http://toolbar.aol.com/aolclassifieds/download.html?ncid=emlcntusdown00000004 > <http://toolbar.aol.com/aolclassifieds/download.html?ncid=emlcntusdown00000004>) > >) > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > > > **************Download the AOL Classifieds Toolbar for local deals at > your > fingertips. > (http://toolbar.aol.com/aolclassifieds/download.html?ncid=emlcntusdown00000004 > <http://toolbar.aol.com/aolclassifieds/download.html?ncid=emlcntusdown00000004>) > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 40744	From: kim carmean	Date: 6/8/2009
Subject: Re: wierd

no most always new tank new filter etc new gravel kim carmean CHECK OUT MY FISH PICTURE LINKS ,,,,,,,, http://picasaweb.google.com/bikim4202005 http://mainelycichlids.weebly.com --- On Mon, 6/8/09, Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@...> wrote: From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@...> Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] wierd To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Date: Monday, June 8, 2009, 3:21 PM Well, you know the old saying... "If it ain't broke, don't fix it!"... but if you do have a problem, which many posters to forums do have, then that is where a test kit will at least let you (or rather the folks trying to help) know some of what might be causing the problem. I'm presuming you have well water? I'm also presuming you are putting a cycled filter on the tank? Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com [mailto:AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com] On Behalf Of kim Sent: Monday, June 08, 2009 8:40 AM To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com Subject: [AquaticLife] wierd i dunno if im just lucky or what but ive had fish 3 years now i started with bettas i had 19 then i got a few goldfish i was tired of the boring looks and colors so i got a few cichlids i loved them they get huge and come in so many colors and sizes so i fed my bettas and gold fish to my cichlids now i have 44 tanks of cichlids from 120 gl to 5 gl mostly 55 gls and 30s i have never ever not once tested a thing ever i just go buy a tank fill it throw in fish the same day . ive never had any die unless got eaten by another vicious cichlid. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 40745	From: kathy ragsdale	Date: 6/8/2009
Subject: Re: ich

I Have tried The Ick Away by Wardley (Petsmart Item), not sure if it's the same as what you are talking about but the ingredients are as follows: Malachite Green 0.075% then Inert Ingredients  99.925% It hasn't done anything for me so far but the 50% water change and Aquarium salts and rise in temperature to 84 degrees seems to be helping (since no more fish have died as yet) Hugz, Kat --- On Mon, 6/8/09, Amber Berglund <amber@...> wrote: From: Amber Berglund <amber@...> Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] ich To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Date: Monday, June 8, 2009, 5:20 PM I'm not sure myself. I can only assume that formaldehyde is a form of formalin, malachite green (sometimes called malachite blue) is usually also used. Perhaps we should wait for someone who is familiar with ich out by wardley? Amber jan1213@aol. com wrote: > > > > the ingredients are formaldehyde 5.55% inert ingredients 94.45% is this > okay > > In a message dated 6/8/2009 5:27:14 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time, > amber@rose-fields. com <mailto:amber% 40rose-fields. com> writes: > > I have never used ick out by wardley, do they list the ingredients on > the package? > Do you have common pleco's? A lot of fish stores sell them as "common > pleco" or as mine calls them "sailfin pleco's", they get very big and > once yours gets over 4-5 inches you might want to start thinking about > seeing if your fish store will trade him/her in for a baby one. Lenny's > fish store will do this but mine won't ;) It all depends on your LFS I > suppose, mine uses possible contamination as a reason for not trading > fish back in, he brings up any excuse he can basically, I wish I had > another fish store on my island. > > Amber > > _jan1213@aol. jan <mailto:_jan1213% 40aol.jan> _ (mailto:jan1213@aol. com > <mailto:jan1213% 40aol.com> ) wrote: > > > > > > I was going to use ick out by wardley > > 2 corydoral catfish and 1 plecosdomus we had 2 but I found one dead this > > morning > > I am waiting to see if what I am doing is okay...befor I treat > > > > > > In a message dated 6/8/2009 4:56:45 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time, > > _amber@rose- fields.amb <mailto:_amber% 40rose-fields. amb>_ > (mailto:amber@rose-fields. com <mailto:amber% 40rose-fields. com>) > <mailto:amber% mailto:amber% mai> writes: > > > > I didn't take my plants out but I used the heat and salt treatment when > > I treated for ich (I also have a UV sterilizer going on the tank). I > > lost a couple of plants during the high temps and salt treatment, and > > quite a few of my crypts and swords "melted" during the high temps, but > > after the temps were lowered they started to grow back within a week > > or so. > > What medication treatment are you planning for your tank? Cory's don't > > do well with salt added to their tank. What is your "1 catfish"? Do you > > happen to at least know the common name of it if you don't know the > > scientific name? > > > > Amber > > > > janis_chrystal wrote: > > > > > > > > > my fish have ick, do I feed them during this treatment and should I > > > take the plants out..I have to treat at half dose, because of my > > > catfish...this will probably take 2 weeks I am guessing Thanks Janis > > > MY 46 gal tank > > > 8 albino glowlight tetra > > > 6 neon tetra > > > 6 flame tetra > > > 1 catfish > > > 2 cory catfish > > > > > > > > > > > > > ************ ************ <WBR>**Download the AOL Classifieds Toolbar f > > your > > fingertips. > > > (_http://toolbar. http://toolbar. http://toolbar. http://toohttp: //toolbar. http_ > <http://toolbar. http://toolbar. http://toolbar. http://toohttp: //toolbar. http_> > > (http://toolbar. aol.com/aolclass ifieds/download. html?ncid= emlcntusdown0000 0004 > <http://toolbar. aol.com/aolclass ifieds/download. html?ncid= emlcntusdown0000 0004>) > > > > <_http://toolbar. http://toolbar. http://toolbar. http://toohttp: //toolbar. http_ > <http://toolbar. http://toolbar. http://toolbar. http://toohttp: //toolbar. http_> > > (http://toolbar. aol.com/aolclass ifieds/download. html?ncid= emlcntusdown0000 0004 > <http://toolbar. aol.com/aolclass ifieds/download. html?ncid= emlcntusdown0000 0004>) > >) > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > > > ************ **Download the AOL Classifieds Toolbar for local deals at > your > fingertips. > (http://toolbar. aol.com/aolclass ifieds/download. html?ncid= emlcntusdown0000 0004 > <http://toolbar. aol.com/aolclass ifieds/download. html?ncid= emlcntusdown0000 0004>) > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 40746	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 6/8/2009
Subject: Re: ick

What treatment method were you planning? If using the salt and higher water temperature (86F), then you should remove the plants and as long as you leave the plants in a separate tank, with NO FISH, for four weeks, any Ich that might have been on the plants will have died off without a fish host. What kind of "catfish" do you have? You mention the Corydoras catfish but the other is not ID'ed at all. It's also good to put the exact species of fish, when asking for treatment advice, and for the Corydoras as well as there are dozens of common species in the Corydoras genus. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of janis_chrystal Sent: Monday, June 08, 2009 2:47 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] ick my fish have ick, do I feed them during this treatment and should I take the plants out..I have to treat at half dose, because of my catfish...this will probably take 2 weeks I am guessing Thanks Janis MY 46 gal tank 8 albino glowlight tetra 6 neon tetra 6 flame tetra 1 catfish 2 cory catfish

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 40747	From: turbocoupe76	Date: 6/8/2009
Subject: Re: Hello everyone, long time no see

When I swapped the fish around, All the fish and snails where in my hospital tanks. Gold/koi where in one QT and the tropicals in another QT. I used the water from their tanks. Then i did PWCs on the main tanks to get the temps correctly. My goldfish tanks seem to stay at 6.8 ph and my tropical tank is at 7.2 ph. thats after i did the tropical PWCs. This morning (mon 9:00am) I checked the water parameters and the ammonia was at 2ppm. Also I had 3 fish die off. so now im down to 11 tropicals i believe. At that point I set up a 20g QT and put the rest of the fish in there and they seem to be doing fine. I left 4 cory cats in the 150 gallon as those guys are made of steel. 3 of the 4 cats I have where the ones I cycled my first tanks with!! I also took out any remaining snail shells i could find. Its now 9:30 on monday and without touching anything my ammonia level is at 1ppm. another couple of days I will do another PWC. when all my parameters are back to normal (relative term when keeping fish) at what rate should I start introducing my fish back to their main tank?? The only thing that i can think of is when I cleaned my filter cartridges I didnt put dechlor in my bucket when i let em sit after I rinse them under tap water. Once I put them back into the filter The Biowheels where in the line of fire of the tap water rinsed filter pads. Would that be enough chlorine to kill off my N bacteria? I dont usually test my water after a PWC, I usually test first then PWC. Tom --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@...> wrote: > > The beginning of this email thread got cut off but I thought you had the > Eheim on the 150G? I also could swear that I read you cleaned the filter > media under tap water but I went back and read and you would rinse the > filter cartridges of the HOB's under tap water. I also thought you only had > the Eheim on the 150G but I now see you have the Eheim and two Emperor > 400's, with Bio-Wheels. Sorry, I guess I suffered information overload. :-P > > OK. Considering all of the better consumed information, it's not likely > happening from your filter cleaning but what I would do in the future is > rotate cleaning the filters "good" (meaning rinsing clear under tap water), > with only one done each week, when you have multiple filters. For the other > filter cartridges/media, just remove the filter cartridge/media and rub the > heavy stuff off in some removed tank water (just dip a gallon of water out > of the tank) and then swish them around to get most of the detritus off > while leaving the N-bacteria alive. This, along with the four Bio-Wheels > and you should never see any cycling issues. > > Now, the problem comes in what caused the ammonia spike and whether it was a > snail die-off that caused the ammonia or the ammonia that caused the snail > die-off and a fish death. If there are no other causes of your filters > becoming un-cycled (meaning contaminants, medications, over-cleaning, etc.), > then it must be something that caused the snails to die. Snails will starve > to death easily and that is the best way to rid oneself of snails... is to > cut back on feeding the fish as snails are opportunistic breeders and if > there is not enough food, some will die and the others will not breed as > much as part of trying to ensure their own survival. As I stated earlier, I > think this may be what happened when you moved the goldfish/Koi from the > 150G and the much smaller mass of tropical fish into the 150G. Since you > likely cut back on feeding dramatically, there would be less chance of food > for the snails (and the fact that snails would munch on goldfish/Koi poop, > which is still full of nutrition), it doesn't take long for the snails to > start dying back. I lost my Mystery Snails after Hurricane Katrina since I > was having to limit the feeding of the fish since I did not have power (14 > days) or clean water (5 weeks) and the only thing that I have been able to > determine as to their deaths is starvation. I thought they would do OK with > just the algae and plants but I guess they also relied too much on that > nutrition enriched goldfish poop too. :-P > > Your last question below, "Did I change the water parameters too rapidly?", > is a BIG ONE. How fast did you do it? I was thinking about this when you > were talking about how you switched fish around. The thing I've done in the > past when acclimating a tropical to sub-tropical fish to a high cool water > tank, when I had to keep a common pleco in my 65G goldfish tank temporarily > after I rescued a grossly overstocked 10G tank, I slowly raised the goldfish > up to 75-76F while slowly lowering the tropical tank to the same level. I > also did a series of PWC's on both tanks so the water parameters were nearly > identical. Then I moved the pleco. All went well. What did you do to > acclimate the fish (and snails) to the changing temperatures? It's usually > best to not change the tank by more than 1-2F per day. > > Since your ammonia is coming down rapidly, I would not go around moving the > fish. > > You know, I never did ask, but what is your pH in this 150G tank? If you > have a high pH, ammonia is much more toxic than it is with a neutral or low > pH. If you have a low pH (below 7.0), even the 8ppm of ammonia might not be > very bad compared to if you had a pH of 7.8+ where even 0.25ppm of ammonia > starts to become toxic. Temperature also affects ammonia toxicity so a > cooler tank is less toxic than a warmer tank. > > Another thing I didn't really cover is about the Tetra SafeStart. > Nitrifying bacteria do not do as well if the ammonia level gets too high. > This has been documented by folks doing fishless cycling with plain ammonia. > If the ammonia level gets over 5.0 or if the GH gets too low, the fishless > cycle will stall so there is a chance that adding the SafeStart to the 8ppm > of ammonia might not have worked as well as it would have in newly set up > tank with no fish... which is the designed purpose of Bio-Spira now called > either Tetra SafeStart or the BETTER CHOICE, Dr. Tim's One And Only. > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right > side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) > > > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 40748	From: turbocoupe76	Date: 6/8/2009
Subject: Anyone know of this fish?

I will post a pic if needed but one of them died during my recent ammonia spike. Its a dark colored fish with a thin black stripe from eye to tail. When the light hits them right they appear crystal blue and black. Its about 3" long. The neat thing about them is that they swim at a 45* angle (their head is lower than their tail). When they stand still they appear to be frozen. I didnt buy them so i dont know what they are called if you need i will post a pic soon.. Thanks Tom

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 40749	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 6/8/2009
Subject: Re: wierd

The upside is that from what you've posted, all of your fish have survived this process. The downside is that since you weren't testing, you didn't realize you were putting your fish through the arduous process of "Cycling With Fish" which means the fish were exposed to elevated ammonia and nitrite levels for 4-8 weeks while the new tank cycled. If you have a low pH (7.2 or below), then the ammonia is far less toxic at elevated levels and if you added a pinch of salt per 10G, that would help prevent nitrite poisoning... BUT... it's best to NOT "Cycle With Fish" as there are much safer and more humane ways of starting up a new tank. In your case, with multiple tanks, it would just tank moving a fully cycled filter or filter cartridge from one of your established tanks, to the newly set up tank and that would either instantly cycle the tank or go a long way at getting it cycled to where it would cycle rather quickly without seeing elevated ammonia/nitrite levels. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of kim carmean Sent: Monday, June 08, 2009 2:29 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] wierd no most always new tank new filter etc new gravel kim carmean CHECK OUT MY FISH PICTURE LINKS ,,,,,,,, http://picasaweb.google.com/bikim4202005 http://mainelycichlids.weebly.com --- On Mon, 6/8/09, Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@...> wrote: From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@...> Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] wierd To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Date: Monday, June 8, 2009, 3:21 PM Well, you know the old saying... "If it ain't broke, don't fix it!"... but if you do have a problem, which many posters to forums do have, then that is where a test kit will at least let you (or rather the folks trying to help) know some of what might be causing the problem. I'm presuming you have well water? I'm also presuming you are putting a cycled filter on the tank? Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com [mailto:AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com] On Behalf Of kim Sent: Monday, June 08, 2009 8:40 AM To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com Subject: [AquaticLife] wierd i dunno if im just lucky or what but ive had fish 3 years now i started with bettas i had 19 then i got a few goldfish i was tired of the boring looks and colors so i got a few cichlids i loved them they get huge and come in so many colors and sizes so i fed my bettas and gold fish to my cichlids now i have 44 tanks of cichlids from 120 gl to 5 gl mostly 55 gls and 30s i have never ever not once tested a thing ever i just go buy a tank fill it throw in fish the same day . ive never had any die unless got eaten by another vicious cichlid.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 40750	From: jan1213@aol.com	Date: 6/8/2009
Subject: Re: ick

Lenny, the other cat fish is Plecosdomus....I have treated the tank now...I read not to use salt because of the cat fish..I had halved the dosage because of the catfish...........I am just sick about this..,..I am watching them so closely..........Janis oh and my goal was to set temp at 80 my normal tank temp is 77 Thanks you have helped me with my comet goldfish before....I gave her to a very lfs and she is in a pond now...THAT broke my heart too.... In a message dated 6/8/2009 9:46:35 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time, GoldLenny@... writes: What treatment method were you planning? If using the salt and higher water temperature (86F), then you should remove the plants and as long as you leave the plants in a separate tank, with NO FISH, for four weeks, any Ich that might have been on the plants will have died off without a fish host. What kind of "catfish" do you have? You mention the Corydoras catfish but the other is not ID'ed at all. It's also good to put the exact species of fish, when asking for treatment advice, and for the Corydoras as well as there are dozens of common species in the Corydoras genus. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - _http://GoldLenny.http://Gohtt_ (http://goldlenny.blogspot.com/) (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: _AquaticLife@AquaticLife@Aqu_ (mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com) [mailto:_AquaticLife@AquaticLife@Aqu_ (mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com) ] On Behalf Of janis_chrystal Sent: Monday, June 08, 2009 2:47 PM To: _AquaticLife@AquaticLife@Aqu_ (mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com) Subject: [AquaticLife] ick my fish have ick, do I feed them during this treatment and should I take the plants out..I have to treat at half dose, because of my catfish...this will probably take 2 weeks I am guessing Thanks Janis MY 46 gal tank 8 albino glowlight tetra 6 neon tetra 6 flame tetra 1 catfish 2 cory catfish **************Download the AOL Classifieds Toolbar for local deals at your fingertips. (http://toolbar.aol.com/aolclassifieds/download.html?ncid=emlcntusdown00000004) [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 40751	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 6/8/2009
Subject: Re: Hello everyone, long time no see

Since you've removed a large part of the bioload from the 150G, the 150G should cycle down to 0.0ppm of ammonia/nitrites without the need for additional PWC's... but NOW you have to monitor the Q-tank where you moved 7 fish into that 20G tank, to make sure it's not seeing elevated ammonia/nitrite levels. Did you move a cycled filter to that Q-tank? I don't think that the Bio-Wheels would be affected by the minute amount of any chlorine/chloramine in the filters themselves. Now, if you filled the filter reservoirs with tap water also, that could be a little more detrimental but still should not kill off all the N-bacteria on the Bio-Wheels since that tap water would immediately be diluted with tank water from the pump as soon as you start it up and it takes tap water a few minutes to kill off bacteria. If tap water killed bacteria instantly, then we wouldn't need bleach or antibacterial hand soaps and doctors wouldn't have to scrub down with Betadyne when prepping for surgery. When you are doing filter maintenance, how long are the Bio-Wheels left out of water/water flow? If only a few minutes, there shouldn't be a problem but if they are sitting there in their holders for an hour or so, that could be a problem. Once the 150G is fully cycled for the remaining 4 Corydoras, then it will ONLY be cycled for that bioload so as soon as you add the other 7 fish, you will see a mini-cycle of ammonia/nitrite spikes... unless you have a fully cycled filter on the 20G Q-tank right now and you move it to the 150G when you move the fish. For the next few times that you do tank maintenance, you might want to test the tank after you do your PWC's and filter maintenance and then test it again the next day. If you do not see an ammonia/nitrite spike, then you should be OK. I wish we could have something jump out at us that caused your current cycling issues but so far, I do not see anything, unless you answer the questions above about the Bio-Wheels being left out of water for an hour or so. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of turbocoupe76 Sent: Monday, June 08, 2009 8:55 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Hello everyone, long time no see When I swapped the fish around, All the fish and snails where in my hospital tanks. Gold/koi where in one QT and the tropicals in another QT. I used the water from their tanks. Then i did PWCs on the main tanks to get the temps correctly. My goldfish tanks seem to stay at 6.8 ph and my tropical tank is at 7.2 ph. thats after i did the tropical PWCs. This morning (mon 9:00am) I checked the water parameters and the ammonia was at 2ppm. Also I had 3 fish die off. so now im down to 11 tropicals i believe. At that point I set up a 20g QT and put the rest of the fish in there and they seem to be doing fine. I left 4 cory cats in the 150 gallon as those guys are made of steel. 3 of the 4 cats I have where the ones I cycled my first tanks with!! I also took out any remaining snail shells i could find. Its now 9:30 on monday and without touching anything my ammonia level is at 1ppm. another couple of days I will do another PWC. when all my parameters are back to normal (relative term when keeping fish) at what rate should I start introducing my fish back to their main tank?? The only thing that i can think of is when I cleaned my filter cartridges I didnt put dechlor in my bucket when i let em sit after I rinse them under tap water. Once I put them back into the filter The Biowheels where in the line of fire of the tap water rinsed filter pads. Would that be enough chlorine to kill off my N bacteria? I dont usually test my water after a PWC, I usually test first then PWC. Tom --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@...> wrote: > > The beginning of this email thread got cut off but I thought you had > the Eheim on the 150G? I also could swear that I read you cleaned the > filter media under tap water but I went back and read and you would > rinse the filter cartridges of the HOB's under tap water. I also > thought you only had the Eheim on the 150G but I now see you have the > Eheim and two Emperor 400's, with Bio-Wheels. Sorry, I guess I > suffered information overload. :-P > > OK. Considering all of the better consumed information, it's not > likely happening from your filter cleaning but what I would do in the > future is rotate cleaning the filters "good" (meaning rinsing clear > under tap water), with only one done each week, when you have multiple > filters. For the other filter cartridges/media, just remove the > filter cartridge/media and rub the heavy stuff off in some removed > tank water (just dip a gallon of water out of the tank) and then swish > them around to get most of the detritus off while leaving the > N-bacteria alive. This, along with the four Bio-Wheels and you should never see any cycling issues. > > Now, the problem comes in what caused the ammonia spike and whether it > was a snail die-off that caused the ammonia or the ammonia that caused > the snail die-off and a fish death. If there are no other causes of > your filters becoming un-cycled (meaning contaminants, medications, > over-cleaning, etc.), then it must be something that caused the snails > to die. Snails will starve to death easily and that is the best way > to rid oneself of snails... is to cut back on feeding the fish as > snails are opportunistic breeders and if there is not enough food, > some will die and the others will not breed as much as part of trying > to ensure their own survival. As I stated earlier, I think this may > be what happened when you moved the goldfish/Koi from the 150G and the > much smaller mass of tropical fish into the 150G. Since you likely > cut back on feeding dramatically, there would be less chance of food > for the snails (and the fact that snails would munch on goldfish/Koi > poop, which is still full of nutrition), it doesn't take long for the > snails to start dying back. I lost my Mystery Snails after Hurricane > Katrina since I was having to limit the feeding of the fish since I > did not have power (14 > days) or clean water (5 weeks) and the only thing that I have been > able to determine as to their deaths is starvation. I thought they > would do OK with just the algae and plants but I guess they also > relied too much on that nutrition enriched goldfish poop too. :-P > > Your last question below, "Did I change the water parameters too > rapidly?", is a BIG ONE. How fast did you do it? I was thinking > about this when you were talking about how you switched fish around. > The thing I've done in the past when acclimating a tropical to > sub-tropical fish to a high cool water tank, when I had to keep a > common pleco in my 65G goldfish tank temporarily after I rescued a > grossly overstocked 10G tank, I slowly raised the goldfish up to > 75-76F while slowly lowering the tropical tank to the same level. I > also did a series of PWC's on both tanks so the water parameters were > nearly identical. Then I moved the pleco. All went well. What did > you do to acclimate the fish (and snails) to the changing temperatures? It's usually best to not change the tank by more than 1-2F per day. > > Since your ammonia is coming down rapidly, I would not go around > moving the fish. > > You know, I never did ask, but what is your pH in this 150G tank? If > you have a high pH, ammonia is much more toxic than it is with a > neutral or low pH. If you have a low pH (below 7.0), even the 8ppm of > ammonia might not be very bad compared to if you had a pH of 7.8+ > where even 0.25ppm of ammonia starts to become toxic. Temperature > also affects ammonia toxicity so a cooler tank is less toxic than a warmer tank. > > Another thing I didn't really cover is about the Tetra SafeStart. > Nitrifying bacteria do not do as well if the ammonia level gets too high. > This has been documented by folks doing fishless cycling with plain ammonia. > If the ammonia level gets over 5.0 or if the GH gets too low, the > fishless cycle will stall so there is a chance that adding the > SafeStart to the 8ppm of ammonia might not have worked as well as it > would have in newly set up tank with no fish... which is the designed > purpose of Bio-Spira now called either Tetra SafeStart or the BETTER CHOICE, Dr. Tim's One And Only. > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles > referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically > under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month)

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 40752	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 6/8/2009
Subject: Re: ich

Companies will sometimes change their ingredients without changing the product name so always check the dates on the products. If purchased at Wal-Mart, Walmart.com has an extensive list of MSDS (Material Safety Data Sheets) on most of the products they sell and the MSDS will give the exact ingredients in most cases. For new products, the MSDS only has to say "Proprietary Chemicals" if the product is still covered by a new product patent. Here's there MSDS Database... http://msds.walmartstores.com/applications/ And here is the MSDS for Wardley Watercare Ick Away... http://msds.walmartstores.com/cache/168575.pdf It lists Malachite Green <0.1% as the active ingredient (meaning less than 0.1%) The MSDS for API's Super Ick Cure has similar level of Malachite Green as it's active ingredient although their MSDS is more detailed than Wardley's. http://cms.marsfishcare.com/files/msds/super_ick_liq_112807.pdf Page 2 of 9 shows the active ingredient in Section 3, as being "malachite green oxalate, as C.I.Basic Green 4 (oxalate) with the CAS RN 2437-29-8 with the <0.1% (less than 0.1%) strength. Considering this, Wardley's Ick Away should be an OK product to use as I believe that API's Super Ick Cure Liquid is a good product. Of course, the powdered version of API's Super Ick Cure is a different formula and probably better. It has Nitrofurazone 1-5%; Silica Amorphus, Fumed, Crystalline Free 1-5%; then the Malichite Green <0.5% (less than 0.5%) so the powdered version is a much stronger product than the liquid version. I should mention that the powdered version is in a base of 95% Sodium Chloride (Salt) so the active ingredients mentioned above amount to a total of only 5% active ingredients, although Salt could be said to be an active ingredient as well. On an unrelated note, while typing this, I was watching Greta on Fox News Channel and she showed a YouTube video of a FlashMob that took place at a store on Sunset Blvd. in Cali where A & E set up this prank of a FlashMob to promote the upcoming reality show, Hammer Time. You have to watch it a few times to see some of the customers reactions to when the FlashMob first starts mobbing the store and it's hilarious... especially when the FlashMob breaks out to HammerTime in their Gold Lame' Hammer Pants. Here's the YouTube... http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vfxCnZ4Dp3c I used to love that song. LOL Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of kathy ragsdale Sent: Monday, June 08, 2009 8:16 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] ich I Have tried The Ick Away by Wardley (Petsmart Item), not sure if it's the same as what you are talking about but the ingredients are as follows: Malachite Green 0.075% then Inert Ingredients  99.925% It hasn't done anything for me so far but the 50% water change and Aquarium salts and rise in temperature to 84 degrees seems to be helping (since no more fish have died as yet) Hugz, Kat --- On Mon, 6/8/09, Amber Berglund <amber@...> wrote: From: Amber Berglund <amber@...> Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] ich To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Date: Monday, June 8, 2009, 5:20 PM I'm not sure myself. I can only assume that formaldehyde is a form of formalin, malachite green (sometimes called malachite blue) is usually also used. Perhaps we should wait for someone who is familiar with ich out by wardley? Amber jan1213@aol. com wrote: > > > > the ingredients are formaldehyde 5.55% inert ingredients 94.45% is > this > okay > > In a message dated 6/8/2009 5:27:14 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time, > amber@rose-fields. com <mailto:amber% 40rose-fields. com> writes: > > I have never used ick out by wardley, do they list the ingredients on > the package? > Do you have common pleco's? A lot of fish stores sell them as "common > pleco" or as mine calls them "sailfin pleco's", they get very big and > once yours gets over 4-5 inches you might want to start thinking about > seeing if your fish store will trade him/her in for a baby one. > Lenny's > fish store will do this but mine won't ;) It all depends on your LFS I > suppose, mine uses possible contamination as a reason for not trading > fish back in, he brings up any excuse he can basically, I wish I had > another fish store on my island. > > Amber > > _jan1213@aol. jan <mailto:_jan1213% 40aol.jan> _ (mailto:jan1213@aol. > com > <mailto:jan1213% 40aol.com> ) wrote: > > > > > > I was going to use ick out by wardley > > 2 corydoral catfish and 1 plecosdomus we had 2 but I found one dead > > this > > morning > > I am waiting to see if what I am doing is okay...befor I treat > > > > > > In a message dated 6/8/2009 4:56:45 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time, > > _amber@rose- fields.amb <mailto:_amber% 40rose-fields. amb>_ > (mailto:amber@rose-fields. com <mailto:amber% 40rose-fields. com>) > <mailto:amber% mailto:amber% mai> writes: > > > > I didn't take my plants out but I used the heat and salt treatment > > when > > I treated for ich (I also have a UV sterilizer going on the tank). I > > lost a couple of plants during the high temps and salt treatment, > > and > > quite a few of my crypts and swords "melted" during the high temps, > > but > > after the temps were lowered they started to grow back within a week > > or so. > > What medication treatment are you planning for your tank? Cory's > > don't > > do well with salt added to their tank. What is your "1 catfish"? Do > > you > > happen to at least know the common name of it if you don't know the > > scientific name? > > > > Amber > > > > janis_chrystal wrote: > > > > > > > > > my fish have ick, do I feed them during this treatment and should > > > I > > > take the plants out..I have to treat at half dose, because of my > > > catfish...this will probably take 2 weeks I am guessing Thanks > > > Janis > > > MY 46 gal tank > > > 8 albino glowlight tetra > > > 6 neon tetra > > > 6 flame tetra > > > 1 catfish > > > 2 cory catfish > > > > > > > > > > > > > ************ ************ <WBR>**Download the AOL Classifieds > > Toolbar f > > your > > fingertips. > > > (_http://toolbar. http://toolbar. http://toolbar. http://toohttp: > //toolbar. http_ > <http://toolbar. http://toolbar. http://toolbar. http://toohttp: > //toolbar. http_> > > (http://toolbar. aol.com/aolclass ifieds/download. html?ncid= > emlcntusdown0000 0004 > <http://toolbar. aol.com/aolclass ifieds/download. html?ncid= > emlcntusdown0000 0004>) > > > > <_http://toolbar. http://toolbar. http://toolbar. http://toohttp: > //toolbar. http_ > <http://toolbar. http://toolbar. http://toolbar. http://toohttp: > //toolbar. http_> > > (http://toolbar. aol.com/aolclass ifieds/download. html?ncid= > emlcntusdown0000 0004 > <http://toolbar. aol.com/aolclass ifieds/download. html?ncid= > emlcntusdown0000 0004>) > >) > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > > > ************ **Download the AOL Classifieds Toolbar for local deals at > your > fingertips. > (http://toolbar. aol.com/aolclass ifieds/download. html?ncid= > emlcntusdown0000 0004 > <http://toolbar. aol.com/aolclass ifieds/download. html?ncid= > emlcntusdown0000 0004>) > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] ------------------------------------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the home page. Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com to receive the digest, which includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com for the No E-Mail option where you will still be able to read messages on the group and post replies. Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com to receive individual e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 40753	From: kim carmean	Date: 6/8/2009
Subject: Re: wierd

coool  ty kim carmean CHECK OUT MY FISH PICTURE LINKS ,,,,,,,, http://picasaweb.google.com/bikim4202005 http://mainelycichlids.weebly.com --- On Mon, 6/8/09, Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@...> wrote: From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@...> Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] wierd To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Date: Monday, June 8, 2009, 10:03 PM The upside is that from what you've posted, all of your fish have survived this process. The downside is that since you weren't testing, you didn't realize you were putting your fish through the arduous process of "Cycling With Fish" which means the fish were exposed to elevated ammonia and nitrite levels for 4-8 weeks while the new tank cycled. If you have a low pH (7.2 or below), then the ammonia is far less toxic at elevated levels and if you added a pinch of salt per 10G, that would help prevent nitrite poisoning... BUT... it's best to NOT "Cycle With Fish" as there are much safer and more humane ways of starting up a new tank. In your case, with multiple tanks, it would just tank moving a fully cycled filter or filter cartridge from one of your established tanks, to the newly set up tank and that would either instantly cycle the tank or go a long way at getting it cycled to where it would cycle rather quickly without seeing elevated ammonia/nitrite levels. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com [mailto:AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com] On Behalf Of kim carmean Sent: Monday, June 08, 2009 2:29 PM To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] wierd no most always new tank new filter etc new gravel kim carmean CHECK OUT MY FISH PICTURE LINKS ,,,,,,,, http://picasaweb. google.com/ bikim4202005 http://mainelycichl ids.weebly. com --- On Mon, 6/8/09, Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@gmail. com> wrote: From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@gmail. com> Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] wierd To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com Date: Monday, June 8, 2009, 3:21 PM Well, you know the old saying... "If it ain't broke, don't fix it!"... but if you do have a problem, which many posters to forums do have, then that is where a test kit will at least let you (or rather the folks trying to help) know some of what might be causing the problem. I'm presuming you have well water? I'm also presuming you are putting a cycled filter on the tank? Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com [mailto:AquaticLife @ yahoogroups. com] On Behalf Of kim Sent: Monday, June 08, 2009 8:40 AM To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com Subject: [AquaticLife] wierd i dunno if im just lucky or what but ive had fish 3 years now i started with bettas i had 19 then i got a few goldfish i was tired of the boring looks and colors so i got a few cichlids i loved them they get huge and come in so many colors and sizes so i fed my bettas and gold fish to my cichlids now i have 44 tanks of cichlids from 120 gl to 5 gl mostly 55 gls and 30s i have never ever not once tested a thing ever i just go buy a tank fill it throw in fish the same day . ive never had any die unless got eaten by another vicious cichlid. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 40754	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 6/8/2009
Subject: Re: ick

You should bring the water temperature up to at least 84 degrees, and the 86 Lenny mentions is better. It speeds up the lifecycle of the ich parasite, making the treatment more effective and of shorter duration than otherwise would be possible. All signs of the parasite should be gone in 7-10 days, and the treatment should be continued for at least three days after no evidence of the parasite is found \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of jan1213@... Sent: Monday, June 08, 2009 10:07 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] ick Lenny, the other cat fish is Plecosdomus....I have treated the tank now...I read not to use salt because of the cat fish..I had halved the dosage because of the catfish...........I am just sick about this..,..I am watching them so closely..........Janis oh and my goal was to set temp at 80 my normal tank temp is 77 Thanks you have helped me with my comet goldfish before....I gave her to a very lfs and she is in a pond now...THAT broke my heart too.... In a message dated 6/8/2009 9:46:35 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time, GoldLenny@... writes: What treatment method were you planning? If using the salt and higher water temperature (86F), then you should remove the plants and as long as you leave the plants in a separate tank, with NO FISH, for four weeks, any Ich that might have been on the plants will have died off without a fish host. What kind of "catfish" do you have? You mention the Corydoras catfish but the other is not ID'ed at all. It's also good to put the exact species of fish, when asking for treatment advice, and for the Corydoras as well as there are dozens of common species in the Corydoras genus. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - _http://GoldLenny.http://Gohtt_ (http://goldlenny.blogspot.com/) (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: _AquaticLife@AquaticLife@Aqu_ (mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com) [mailto:_AquaticLife@AquaticLife@Aqu_ (mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com) ] On Behalf Of janis_chrystal Sent: Monday, June 08, 2009 2:47 PM To: _AquaticLife@AquaticLife@Aqu_ (mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com) Subject: [AquaticLife] ick my fish have ick, do I feed them during this treatment and should I take the plants out..I have to treat at half dose, because of my catfish...this will probably take 2 weeks I am guessing Thanks Janis MY 46 gal tank 8 albino glowlight tetra 6 neon tetra 6 flame tetra 1 catfish 2 cory catfish

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 40755	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 6/8/2009
Subject: Re: ick

Don't change the temp more than 2 degrees a day though, slowly raise it up to 86 and watch your fish to see if it's stressing them out. Keep in mind to remove any plants that start to melt if you don't want to hope they'll just survive and regenerate after the meds are out of the tank, I have never used ick away or whatever it's called, so I don't know how it will affect plants. Amber Steve Szabo wrote: > > > You should bring the water temperature up to at least 84 degrees, and > the 86 Lenny mentions is better. It speeds up the lifecycle of the ich > parasite, making the treatment more effective and of shorter duration > than otherwise would be possible. All signs of the parasite should be > gone in 7-10 days, and the treatment should be continued for at least > three days after no evidence of the parasite is found > > \\Steve// > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] > On Behalf Of jan1213@... <mailto:jan1213%40aol.com> > Sent: Monday, June 08, 2009 10:07 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] ick > > Lenny, the other cat fish is Plecosdomus....I have treated the tank > now...I read not to use salt because of the cat fish..I had halved the > dosage > because of the catfish...........I am just sick about this..,..I am > watching > them so closely..........Janis oh and my goal was to set temp at 80 > my > normal tank temp is 77 Thanks you have helped me with my comet > goldfish > before....I gave her to a very lfs and she is in a pond now...THAT > broke my > heart too.... > > > > > In a message dated 6/8/2009 9:46:35 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time, > GoldLenny@... <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com> writes: > > What treatment method were you planning? If using the salt and higher > water > temperature (86F), then you should remove the plants and as long as you > leave the plants in a separate tank, with NO FISH, for four weeks, any > Ich > that might have been on the plants will have died off without a fish > host. > > What kind of "catfish" do you have? You mention the Corydoras catfish > but > the other is not ID'ed at all. It's also good to put the exact species > of > fish, when asking for treatment advice, and for the Corydoras as well > as > there are dozens of common species in the Corydoras genus. > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - _http://GoldLenny.http://Gohtt_ > <http://GoldLenny.http://Gohtt_> > (http://goldlenny.blogspot.com/ <http://goldlenny.blogspot.com/>) > (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the > right > side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, > Month) > > -----Original Message----- > From: _AquaticLife@AquaticLife@Aqu_ > (mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>) > > [mailto:_AquaticLife@AquaticLife@Aqu_ > (mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>) ] > On > Behalf Of janis_chrystal > Sent: Monday, June 08, 2009 2:47 PM > To: _AquaticLife@AquaticLife@Aqu_ (mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>) > Subject: [AquaticLife] ick > > my fish have ick, do I feed them during this treatment and should I > take > the > plants out..I have to treat at half dose, because of my catfish...this > will > probably take 2 weeks I am guessing Thanks Janis MY 46 gal tank > 8 albino glowlight tetra > 6 neon tetra > 6 flame tetra > 1 catfish > 2 cory catfish > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 40756	From: jan1213@aol.com	Date: 6/9/2009
Subject: Re: ick

I read to do 1/2 the dosage because of the catfish....and double the treatment time. The bottle states to do a 50% pwc the day after 1st treatment, is this too stressful for the fish? Should I do a 25% instead, and I ma sure I have to replace the meds with the pwc too Thanks Jan dated 6/9/2009 1:27:37 A.M. Eastern Daylight Time, amber@... writes: Don't change the temp more than 2 degrees a day though, slowly raise it up to 86 and watch your fish to see if it's stressing them out. Keep in mind to remove any plants that start to melt if you don't want to hope they'll just survive and regenerate after the meds are out of the tank, I have never used ick away or whatever it's called, so I don't know how it will affect plants. Amber Steve Szabo wrote: > > > You should bring the water temperature up to at least 84 degrees, and > the 86 Lenny mentions is better. It speeds up the lifecycle of the ich > parasite, making the treatment more effective and of shorter duration > than otherwise would be possible. All signs of the parasite should be > gone in 7-10 days, and the treatment should be continued for at least > three days after no evidence of the parasite is found > > \\Steve// > > -----Original Message----- > From: _AquaticLife@AquaticLife@Aqu_ (mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com) > <mailto:AquaticLifemailto:AquaticLmai> > [mailto:_AquaticLife@AquaticLife@Aqu_ (mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com) > <mailto:AquaticLifemailto:AquaticLmai>] > On Behalf Of _jan1213@..._ (mailto:jan1213@...) <mailto:jan1213%mailto:ja> > Sent: Monday, June 08, 2009 10:07 PM > To: _AquaticLife@AquaticLife@Aqu_ (mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com) <mailto:AquaticLifemailto:AquaticLmai> > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] ick > > Lenny, the other cat fish is Plecosdomus. Lenny, the other cat fish > now...I read not to use salt because of the cat fish..I had halved the > dosage > because of the catfish..... because of the catfish.....<WBR>... > watching > them so closely..... them so closely.....<WBR>.....Janis oh and my goal > my > normal tank temp is 77 Thanks you have helped me with my comet > goldfish > before....I gave her to a very lfs and she is in a pond now...THAT > broke my > heart too.... > > > > > In a message dated 6/8/2009 9:46:35 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time, > _GoldLenny@..._ (mailto:GoldLenny@...) <mailto:GoldLenny%mailto:Gold> writes: > > What treatment method were you planning? If using the salt and higher > water > temperature (86F), then you should remove the plants and as long as you > leave the plants in a separate tank, with NO FISH, for four weeks, any > Ich > that might have been on the plants will have died off without a fish > host. > > What kind of "catfish" do you have? You mention the Corydoras catfish > but > the other is not ID'ed at all. It's also good to put the exact species > of > fish, when asking for treatment advice, and for the Corydoras as well > as > there are dozens of common species in the Corydoras genus. > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - __http://GoldLenny.http://GoldLe_ (http://goldlenny.http//Gohtt_) > <_http://GoldLenny.http://GoldLe_ (http://goldlenny.http//Gohtt_) > > (_http://goldlenny.http://gohttp_ (http://goldlenny.blogspot.com/) <_http://goldlenny.http://gohttp_ (http://goldlenny.blogspot.com/) >) > (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the > right > side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, > Month) > > -----Original Message----- > From: _AquaticLife@ From: _ From > (mailto:_AquaticLife@AquaticLife@Aqu_ (mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com) > <mailto:AquaticLifemailto:AquaticLmai>) > > [mailto:_AquaticLif [mailto:_ > (mailto:_AquaticLife@AquaticLife@Aqu_ (mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com) > <mailto:AquaticLifemailto:AquaticLmai>) ] > On > Behalf Of janis_chrystal > Sent: Monday, June 08, 2009 2:47 PM > To: _AquaticLife@ To: _Aquati To: _Aquatic_AquaticLife@AquaticLife@Aqu_ (mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com) > <mailto:AquaticLifemailto:AquaticLmai>) > Subject: [AquaticLife] ick > > my fish have ick, do I feed them during this treatment and should I > take > the > plants out..I have to treat at half dose, because of my catfish...this > will > probably take 2 weeks I am guessing Thanks Janis MY 46 gal tank > 8 albino glowlight tetra > 6 neon tetra > 6 flame tetra > 1 catfish > 2 cory catfish > > **************Download the AOL Classifieds Toolbar for local deals at your fingertips. (http://toolbar.aol.com/aolclassifieds/download.html?ncid=emlcntusdown00000004) [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 40757	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 6/9/2009
Subject: Re: ick

With any meds, almost always follow the directions unless you've received reliable information to do different than the instructions, for example, in your current situation of using only a 50% dosage due to sensitive fish. Other than the 50% dose, you should follow the rest of the directions. When they say to do a "50% PWC after 1st treatment", do the instructions then say to re-dose the tank with a full dosage or partial dosage? Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of jan1213@... Sent: Tuesday, June 09, 2009 2:39 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] ick I read to do 1/2 the dosage because of the catfish....and double the treatment time. The bottle states to do a 50% pwc the day after 1st treatment, is this too stressful for the fish? Should I do a 25% instead, and I ma sure I have to replace the meds with the pwc too Thanks Jan dated 6/9/2009 1:27:37 A.M. Eastern Daylight Time, amber@... writes: Don't change the temp more than 2 degrees a day though, slowly raise it up to 86 and watch your fish to see if it's stressing them out. Keep in mind to remove any plants that start to melt if you don't want to hope they'll just survive and regenerate after the meds are out of the tank, I have never used ick away or whatever it's called, so I don't know how it will affect plants. Amber Steve Szabo wrote: > > > You should bring the water temperature up to at least 84 degrees, and > the 86 Lenny mentions is better. It speeds up the lifecycle of the > ich parasite, making the treatment more effective and of shorter > duration than otherwise would be possible. All signs of the parasite > should be gone in 7-10 days, and the treatment should be continued > for at least three days after no evidence of the parasite is found > > \\Steve// > > -----Original Message----- > From: _AquaticLife@AquaticLife@Aqu_ > (mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com) > <mailto:AquaticLifemailto:AquaticLmai> > [mailto:_AquaticLife@AquaticLife@Aqu_ (mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com) > <mailto:AquaticLifemailto:AquaticLmai>] > On Behalf Of _jan1213@..._ (mailto:jan1213@...) <mailto:jan1213%mailto:ja> > Sent: Monday, June 08, 2009 10:07 PM > To: _AquaticLife@AquaticLife@Aqu_ (mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com) <mailto:AquaticLifemailto:AquaticLmai> > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] ick > > Lenny, the other cat fish is Plecosdomus. Lenny, the other cat fish > now...I read not to use salt because of the cat fish..I had halved > the dosage because of the catfish..... because of the > catfish.....<WBR>... > watching > them so closely..... them so closely.....<WBR>.....Janis oh and my > goal my normal tank temp is 77 Thanks you have helped me with my > comet goldfish before....I gave her to a very lfs and she is in a > pond now...THAT broke my heart too.... > > > > > In a message dated 6/8/2009 9:46:35 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time, > _GoldLenny@..._ (mailto:GoldLenny@...) <mailto:GoldLenny%mailto:Gold> writes: > > What treatment method were you planning? If using the salt and higher > water temperature (86F), then you should remove the plants and as long > as you leave the plants in a separate tank, with NO FISH, for four > weeks, any Ich that might have been on the plants will have died off > without a fish host. > > What kind of "catfish" do you have? You mention the Corydoras catfish > but the other is not ID'ed at all. It's also good to put the exact > species of fish, when asking for treatment advice, and for the > Corydoras as well as there are dozens of common species in the > Corydoras genus. > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - __http://GoldLenny.http://GoldLe_ (http://goldlenny.http//Gohtt_) > <_http://GoldLenny.http://GoldLe_ (http://goldlenny.http//Gohtt_) > > (_http://goldlenny.http://gohttp_ (http://goldlenny.blogspot.com/) <_http://goldlenny.http://gohttp_ (http://goldlenny.blogspot.com/) >) > (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the > right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by > Year, > Month) > > -----Original Message----- > From: _AquaticLife@ From: _ From > (mailto:_AquaticLife@AquaticLife@Aqu_ (mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com) > <mailto:AquaticLifemailto:AquaticLmai>) > > [mailto:_AquaticLif [mailto:_ > (mailto:_AquaticLife@AquaticLife@Aqu_ (mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com) > <mailto:AquaticLifemailto:AquaticLmai>) ] On Behalf Of janis_chrystal > Sent: Monday, June 08, 2009 2:47 PM > To: _AquaticLife@ To: _Aquati To: > _Aquatic_AquaticLife@AquaticLife@Aqu_ (mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com) > <mailto:AquaticLifemailto:AquaticLmai>) > Subject: [AquaticLife] ick > > my fish have ick, do I feed them during this treatment and should I > take the plants out..I have to treat at half dose, because of my > catfish...this will probably take 2 weeks I am guessing Thanks Janis > MY 46 gal tank > 8 albino glowlight tetra > 6 neon tetra > 6 flame tetra > 1 catfish > 2 cory catfish

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 40758	From: turbocoupe76	Date: 6/9/2009
Subject: Re: Hello everyone, long time no see

I have a small Marineland 100 w/biowheel on all my tanks. I leave em running without any charcoal. I just cut a small hole in the plastic grid and empty out the charcoal. I use these filters for my QT tank. I will closely monitor the water parameters though... When adding the fish back to the 150 should I add them back say one a week? Or should all 7 go back in at one at a time. I would think one a week would be better since it would let the NB catch up. I can remove about 35-40 gallons of water before I have to turn off the Marineland 400s. When I do have to turn the filters off, I just let the bio wheels float in the tank. I am not saying that I do perfect maintanance on my tanks. Sometimes I forget to add dechlor to a bucket of water, Sometimes I forget to check the water parameters. Sometimes I overfeed too! But i am not sure what I did this time to cause this. I dont have expensive or rare fish. I have "pet store" tropicals and thats it, but these are my babies and I dont want this to happen again! Funny thing was at this point I thought I moved from Hobbyist to Pro when it came to fish keeping... nothing like an ammonia spike to humble someone --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@...> wrote: > > Since you've removed a large part of the bioload from the 150G, the 150G > should cycle down to 0.0ppm of ammonia/nitrites without the need for > additional PWC's... but NOW you have to monitor the Q-tank where you moved 7 > fish into that 20G tank, to make sure it's not seeing elevated > ammonia/nitrite levels. Did you move a cycled filter to that Q-tank? > > I don't think that the Bio-Wheels would be affected by the minute amount of > any chlorine/chloramine in the filters themselves. Now, if you filled the > filter reservoirs with tap water also, that could be a little more > detrimental but still should not kill off all the N-bacteria on the > Bio-Wheels since that tap water would immediately be diluted with tank water > from the pump as soon as you start it up and it takes tap water a few > minutes to kill off bacteria. If tap water killed bacteria instantly, then > we wouldn't need bleach or antibacterial hand soaps and doctors wouldn't > have to scrub down with Betadyne when prepping for surgery. > > When you are doing filter maintenance, how long are the Bio-Wheels left out > of water/water flow? If only a few minutes, there shouldn't be a problem > but if they are sitting there in their holders for an hour or so, that could > be a problem. > > Once the 150G is fully cycled for the remaining 4 Corydoras, then it will > ONLY be cycled for that bioload so as soon as you add the other 7 fish, you > will see a mini-cycle of ammonia/nitrite spikes... unless you have a fully > cycled filter on the 20G Q-tank right now and you move it to the 150G when > you move the fish. > > For the next few times that you do tank maintenance, you might want to test > the tank after you do your PWC's and filter maintenance and then test it > again the next day. If you do not see an ammonia/nitrite spike, then you > should be OK. > > I wish we could have something jump out at us that caused your current > cycling issues but so far, I do not see anything, unless you answer the > questions above about the Bio-Wheels being left out of water for an hour or > so. > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right > side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 40759	From: pkr772	Date: 6/9/2009
Subject: Breeding Bettas

My family has 2 male bettas, we were thinking it might be fun to try to try to raise some. I have read I'll need a 20 gallon tank(with about 5 inches of water), a piece of glass to cover it, a heater (water needs to be 85 degrees) and an air pump (for baby fish). Of course I'll need to get some females too! Can bettas be bred fairly easily? Is this project worth trying? Any advice? Thanks!!!

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 40760	From: Courtland Jacob	Date: 6/9/2009
Subject: Re: python

I like the idea of making a mark, that would make it easy to regulate how much i take out or add. i am really good at topping off before i do a pwc, and even if i don't, i don't add salt that often maybe every few water changes, should my pwc's be about 20% of the 55 gallon tank capacity or 20% of the actual water in the tank, i used to only tank about 10-15 but i was having a problem with very high nitrate so i started taking 20 gallons out, but that is almost close to 50% after all the gravel and rock come in to play,but i only do it once a month, should i do maybe 10-15 twice a month instead, any suggestions? i will start me next one by topping off, taking out a measured amount, make my mark, then add the propper amount of declor and fill up, it seems easier as well as safer, nice to know. --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@...> wrote: > > It's not good to constantly overdose the dechlor. Your tank will eventually > build up a very high level of the dechlor chemicals (usually Sodium > Thiosulfate and EDTA). For example, lets use 1 capful and a 10G tank for > simplicity. > > If you fill the tank to start with so it has 10G of water and 1 capful of > chemical. Then on week 1, you do a 50% PWC (higher than recommended but > being used for simplicity), so you would be removing 50% of the water and > 50% of the chemical but then you add back 5G of water and 1 capful of > chemical, where you should have only used 1/2 capful. The chemical level is > now at 150% of recommended level. The next week, week 2, you do a 50% PWC, > removing 1/2 the water and 1/2 the chemical (1/2 of 150%) with the water but > then you replace the 5G of water and add another full capful dose. You are > now up to 175% of the recommended chemical level. Week 3, another 50% PWC > so you remove 5G of water and 1/2 of 175% (87.5%) but then replace the 5G of > water and a full capful dose of chemical so the you are now up to 187.5% of > the recommended dosage. > > As mentioned in paragraph one, many of the chemicals used in dechlor > products are mostly salts and salts do not evaporate when the water in our > tanks evaporate. Obviously, if you keep doing this week after week after > week, eventually you will have a very high overdose of the chemical. Many > dechlors are designed for some overdosing and certain dechlors like Prime (I > think) say it is OK to overdose by up to 10X if there is a severe ammonia > problem in the tank.... but this should be a short term treatment, not a > permanent level. > > Remember the fish have to live in this water full time so their kidneys and > other organs (osmoregulatory system) would be having to work much harder to > constantly filter out these pollutants from their water. > > This is similar to the situation with folks that add salt to their > aquariums.. which I do not recommend for freshwater fish, except for when > treating an illness or for fish that need some added salt in their water. > Since the salt never evaporates, if they do not top off their tanks first, > before starting a PWC, then they will eventually build up a much higher > level of salt in the tank. For example, in a 10G tank, if there is 1G of > evaporation and then the person is planning on doing a 30% PWC (3G), so they > siphon out the water down to the mark on the tank for 3G (which means they > only removed 2G) and then when preparing the new 3G of water, they add their > preferred salt dosage to the 3G of water and add that to the tank... but > since 1G of water was initially missing, they really only siphoned out > another 2G of salty water but then added back 3G of salty water. This > results in a 10% increase in the salinity level. If they keep doing this > every week, eventually the salinity level will become much higher, meaning > the fish's osmoregulatory system will have to work that much harder to keep > things in balance. > > The solution, if one suspects they have been inadvertently overdosing their > tank with any additive (dechlor, salt, etc.), is to START doing accurate > PWC's from now on and add accurate doses of chemicals. The overdose level > will slowly lower back down to normal, just like it slowly rose during the > inadvertent overdosing period. Within a short period of time (4-5 PWC's) > the overdosed level will be back to near normal. > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right > side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) > > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On > Behalf Of Courtland Jacob > Sent: Saturday, June 06, 2009 9:37 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: python > > because with mine a capful treats about 10 gallons, but i use 5 gallon jugs > and just to be safe i use a capful in each, so i tend to use twice as much > as needed > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@> > wrote: > > > > How would you save a lot of conditioner, whether you add it first or > during? > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles > > referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically > > under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] > > On Behalf Of Courtland Jacob > > Sent: Saturday, June 06, 2009 5:56 PM > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: python > > > > so the conditioner will still work if you add it to the tank first? I > > didn't know that, i would save a lot of conditioner if i had been > > doing that the whole time > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Steve Szabo" <steve@> wrote: > > > > > > There are quite a number of people using them, and they do work. I > > > add my conditioning product to the water in the tank prior to > > > filling it with the replacement water. > > > > > > \\Steve// > > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] > > > On Behalf Of Courtland Jacob > > > Sent: Saturday, June 06, 2009 6:33 PM > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > > Subject: [AquaticLife] python > > > > > > anyone use one of these vacs? do they work? is it safe to use > > > considering that you can't add conditioner to the water you are > > > adding, and that being said, when do you add water conditioner when > > > using > > it? >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 40761	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 6/9/2009
Subject: Re: Hello everyone, long time no see

Well, as I said before, if the filter on the Q-tank is fully cycled, then just move it and the fish back to the 150G, this way, you will have ALL of the N-bacteria that you need to handle the increased bioload. If the Q-tank's filter was not fully cycled, test the tank to make sure it's not getting ammonia/nitrite issues as well. Remember that a filter running on a tank will only have enough N-bacteria to handle the bioload of fish in that tank. For example, if one 20G tank has 10 fish in it, then that filter will grow enough N-bacteria to handle the ammonia/nitrites from those 10 fish. If another 20G tank only has one fish in it, that filter will only have enough N-bacteria to handle the ammonia/nitrite from that single fish. If you were to switch the filters around on these two tanks, the tank with 10 fish would start to see cycling issues since there were not enough N-bacteria on that filter (from the tank with only 1 fish). The filter from the 10-fish tank, now on the 1-fish tank would be fully cycled but the N-bacteria would start dying off since there is not enough food to sustain them all and once 90% of the N-bacteria have died off, the remaining 10% would live off of the ammonia/nitrite from that single fish bioload. Yep, I agree with you that a problem will humble any of us. I haven't had any in a long time... knock on wood... since before Katrina when I had adopted/saved a grossly overstocked 10G tank and had to nurse all them fish (Common Pleco, two Blue Gouramis, four Zebra Danios and three Albino Buenos Aires Tetras... all in a 10G.. AARRGGHHHHH!!!) back to health... and they continued to have health problems for the rest of their lives that I was constantly dealing with... well, all except for the Common Pleco (Liposarcus Pardalis) that had been in the 10G for two years. He started growing like a weed in my 65G tank until he was getting too big for it and I had to rehome him through my LFS since I had to downsize the number of tanks after Katrina. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of turbocoupe76 Sent: Tuesday, June 09, 2009 9:19 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Hello everyone, long time no see I have a small Marineland 100 w/biowheel on all my tanks. I leave em running without any charcoal. I just cut a small hole in the plastic grid and empty out the charcoal. I use these filters for my QT tank. I will closely monitor the water parameters though... When adding the fish back to the 150 should I add them back say one a week? Or should all 7 go back in at one at a time. I would think one a week would be better since it would let the NB catch up. I can remove about 35-40 gallons of water before I have to turn off the Marineland 400s. When I do have to turn the filters off, I just let the bio wheels float in the tank. I am not saying that I do perfect maintanance on my tanks. Sometimes I forget to add dechlor to a bucket of water, Sometimes I forget to check the water parameters. Sometimes I overfeed too! But i am not sure what I did this time to cause this. I dont have expensive or rare fish. I have "pet store" tropicals and thats it, but these are my babies and I dont want this to happen again! Funny thing was at this point I thought I moved from Hobbyist to Pro when it came to fish keeping... nothing like an ammonia spike to humble someone --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@...> wrote: > > Since you've removed a large part of the bioload from the 150G, the > 150G should cycle down to 0.0ppm of ammonia/nitrites without the need > for additional PWC's... but NOW you have to monitor the Q-tank where > you moved 7 fish into that 20G tank, to make sure it's not seeing > elevated ammonia/nitrite levels. Did you move a cycled filter to that Q-tank? > > I don't think that the Bio-Wheels would be affected by the minute > amount of any chlorine/chloramine in the filters themselves. Now, if > you filled the filter reservoirs with tap water also, that could be a > little more detrimental but still should not kill off all the > N-bacteria on the Bio-Wheels since that tap water would immediately be > diluted with tank water from the pump as soon as you start it up and > it takes tap water a few minutes to kill off bacteria. If tap water > killed bacteria instantly, then we wouldn't need bleach or > antibacterial hand soaps and doctors wouldn't have to scrub down with Betadyne when prepping for surgery. > > When you are doing filter maintenance, how long are the Bio-Wheels > left out of water/water flow? If only a few minutes, there shouldn't > be a problem but if they are sitting there in their holders for an > hour or so, that could be a problem. > > Once the 150G is fully cycled for the remaining 4 Corydoras, then it > will ONLY be cycled for that bioload so as soon as you add the other 7 > fish, you will see a mini-cycle of ammonia/nitrite spikes... unless > you have a fully cycled filter on the 20G Q-tank right now and you > move it to the 150G when you move the fish. > > For the next few times that you do tank maintenance, you might want to > test the tank after you do your PWC's and filter maintenance and then > test it again the next day. If you do not see an ammonia/nitrite > spike, then you should be OK. > > I wish we could have something jump out at us that caused your current > cycling issues but so far, I do not see anything, unless you answer > the questions above about the Bio-Wheels being left out of water for > an hour or so. > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles > referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically > under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month)

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 40762	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 6/9/2009
Subject: Re: python

It's probably NOT good to only add salt on occasion. If one has fish that prefer a little salt, like livebearers, then the salt levels should be kept fairly consistent. If your fish do not need or prefer salt, then it's best to NOT add salt at all unless needed for medical reasons. Just adding a little salt from time to time will NOT do anything beneficial for most fresh water fish. Otherwise the fish are having to constantly acclimate to changing salinity levels, which they do in nature on a frequent basis but our tank kept fish are not always as hardy as fish in nature. In nature, Darwinism rules, so "only the fittest survive" but in our tanks, we strive to keep all of our fish alive so we have strong fish mixed in with weak fish and these weak fish would be more likely to be stressed by constantly changing water parameters. The salinity level also affects the osmoregulatory system on our fish so changing water parameters will also make the O-System work harder to keep the fish's internal salinity, minerals and electrolytes equalized with the changing water parameters. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Courtland Jacob Sent: Tuesday, June 09, 2009 9:57 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: python I like the idea of making a mark, that would make it easy to regulate how much i take out or add. i am really good at topping off before i do a pwc, and even if i don't, i don't add salt that often maybe every few water changes, should my pwc's be about 20% of the 55 gallon tank capacity or 20% of the actual water in the tank, i used to only tank about 10-15 but i was having a problem with very high nitrate so i started taking 20 gallons out, but that is almost close to 50% after all the gravel and rock come in to play,but i only do it once a month, should i do maybe 10-15 twice a month instead, any suggestions? i will start me next one by topping off, taking out a measured amount, make my mark, then add the propper amount of declor and fill up, it seems easier as well as safer, nice to know. --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@...> wrote: > > It's not good to constantly overdose the dechlor. Your tank will > eventually build up a very high level of the dechlor chemicals > (usually Sodium Thiosulfate and EDTA). For example, lets use 1 capful > and a 10G tank for simplicity. > > If you fill the tank to start with so it has 10G of water and 1 capful > of chemical. Then on week 1, you do a 50% PWC (higher than > recommended but being used for simplicity), so you would be removing > 50% of the water and 50% of the chemical but then you add back 5G of > water and 1 capful of chemical, where you should have only used 1/2 > capful. The chemical level is now at 150% of recommended level. The > next week, week 2, you do a 50% PWC, removing 1/2 the water and 1/2 > the chemical (1/2 of 150%) with the water but then you replace the 5G > of water and add another full capful dose. You are now up to 175% of > the recommended chemical level. Week 3, another 50% PWC so you remove > 5G of water and 1/2 of 175% (87.5%) but then replace the 5G of water > and a full capful dose of chemical so the you are now up to 187.5% of the recommended dosage. > > As mentioned in paragraph one, many of the chemicals used in dechlor > products are mostly salts and salts do not evaporate when the water in > our tanks evaporate. Obviously, if you keep doing this week after > week after week, eventually you will have a very high overdose of the > chemical. Many dechlors are designed for some overdosing and certain > dechlors like Prime (I > think) say it is OK to overdose by up to 10X if there is a severe > ammonia problem in the tank.... but this should be a short term > treatment, not a permanent level. > > Remember the fish have to live in this water full time so their > kidneys and other organs (osmoregulatory system) would be having to > work much harder to constantly filter out these pollutants from their water. > > This is similar to the situation with folks that add salt to their > aquariums.. which I do not recommend for freshwater fish, except for > when treating an illness or for fish that need some added salt in their water. > Since the salt never evaporates, if they do not top off their tanks > first, before starting a PWC, then they will eventually build up a > much higher level of salt in the tank. For example, in a 10G tank, if > there is 1G of evaporation and then the person is planning on doing a > 30% PWC (3G), so they siphon out the water down to the mark on the > tank for 3G (which means they only removed 2G) and then when preparing > the new 3G of water, they add their preferred salt dosage to the 3G of > water and add that to the tank... but since 1G of water was initially > missing, they really only siphoned out another 2G of salty water but > then added back 3G of salty water. This results in a 10% increase in > the salinity level. If they keep doing this every week, eventually > the salinity level will become much higher, meaning the fish's > osmoregulatory system will have to work that much harder to keep things in balance. > > The solution, if one suspects they have been inadvertently overdosing > their tank with any additive (dechlor, salt, etc.), is to START doing > accurate PWC's from now on and add accurate doses of chemicals. The > overdose level will slowly lower back down to normal, just like it > slowly rose during the inadvertent overdosing period. Within a short > period of time (4-5 PWC's) the overdosed level will be back to near normal. > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles > referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically > under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) > > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] > On Behalf Of Courtland Jacob > Sent: Saturday, June 06, 2009 9:37 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: python > > because with mine a capful treats about 10 gallons, but i use 5 gallon > jugs and just to be safe i use a capful in each, so i tend to use > twice as much as needed > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" > <GoldLenny@> > wrote: > > > > How would you save a lot of conditioner, whether you add it first or > during? > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles > > referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, > > alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] > > On Behalf Of Courtland Jacob > > Sent: Saturday, June 06, 2009 5:56 PM > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: python > > > > so the conditioner will still work if you add it to the tank first? > > I didn't know that, i would save a lot of conditioner if i had been > > doing that the whole time > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Steve Szabo" <steve@> wrote: > > > > > > There are quite a number of people using them, and they do work. I > > > add my conditioning product to the water in the tank prior to > > > filling it with the replacement water. > > > > > > \\Steve// > > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] > > > On Behalf Of Courtland Jacob > > > Sent: Saturday, June 06, 2009 6:33 PM > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > > Subject: [AquaticLife] python > > > > > > anyone use one of these vacs? do they work? is it safe to use > > > considering that you can't add conditioner to the water you are > > > adding, and that being said, when do you add water conditioner > > > when using > > it? >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 40763	From: turbocoupe76	Date: 6/9/2009
Subject: Mystery fish

OK I posted 2 pics of my mystery fish in the Photo section. Anyone seen this fish before? I havent lol

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 40764	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 6/9/2009
Subject: Re: Mystery fish

Looks like an SAE (Siamese Algae Eater) or False SAE or maybe even a Flying Fox. One pic is small and the other is blurry so I can't be sure. Check out the pics on this page to see which one you have. http://www.thekrib.com/Fish/Algae-Eaters/ Google for more images to compare and be sure. They shouldn't swim at that 45o angle though. Looks like a swim bladder issue with the rear lobe staying full of air. Some fish live full lives with them as long as they have some control over one of the lobes. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of turbocoupe76 Sent: Tuesday, June 09, 2009 10:56 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Mystery fish OK I posted 2 pics of my mystery fish in the Photo section. Anyone seen this fish before? I havent lol

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 40765	From: kim	Date: 6/9/2009
Subject: photo in what album theres 240

photo in what album theres 240

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 40766	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 6/9/2009
Subject: Re: photo in what album theres 240

Here's the link.... http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife/photos/album/626247460/pic/list For your reference and for others reading this, if you go to the Photo section of any Yahoo Group, on the top right, there's different sorting options including a link to "Last Modified" and if you click that, it will sort the albums so the most recently modified albums come to the top. That's how I almost always do it. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of kim Sent: Tuesday, June 09, 2009 11:04 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] photo in what album theres 240 photo in what album theres 240

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 40767	From: toddswoman496861@aim.com	Date: 6/9/2009
Subject: have learned alot from all of you

I am glad that I found both the guppy group and aquatic life group. I have learned a lot from both. I just got me a blue turquoise male guppy to introduce some color to the tank. right now its in quarantine so far it is doing good. before him all?? I had were either blonds or tequila sunrise variety not sure so am hoping to get some color introduced Got a lot of the guppies I had thinned down some and prob will cull all the males from the current batch of fry I have Kate Dale [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 40768	From: turbocoupe76	Date: 6/9/2009
Subject: Re: Mystery fish

Interesting.... Ill try and take better pics but not use my cellphone. Let me clarify though. They do swim straight but when they sit still they do it at a 45* angle, sorta frozen. --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@...> wrote: > > Looks like an SAE (Siamese Algae Eater) or False SAE or maybe even a Flying > Fox. One pic is small and the other is blurry so I can't be sure. Check > out the pics on this page to see which one you have. > http://www.thekrib.com/Fish/Algae-Eaters/ Google for more images to compare > and be sure. > > They shouldn't swim at that 45o angle though. Looks like a swim bladder > issue with the rear lobe staying full of air. Some fish live full lives > with them as long as they have some control over one of the lobes. > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right > side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) > > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On > Behalf Of turbocoupe76 > Sent: Tuesday, June 09, 2009 10:56 AM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Subject: [AquaticLife] Mystery fish > > OK I posted 2 pics of my mystery fish in the Photo section. Anyone seen this > fish before? I havent lol >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 40769	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 6/9/2009
Subject: One algae after the next...

Okay so all the fish are healthy in the 55 gallon and I haven't added any new plants for a few weeks at least, maybe more. I glued some of the java moss to rocks though instead of waiting for it to fully attach to my drift wood pieces. My duck weed is starting to die off and the hair algae is going crazy. I'm just thankful that I can see the fish though ;) It's not suspended in the water so I can deal with it, LOL. I'm wondering how long it is going to take for the tank to even itself out and the algae to start dieing off. I've had this hair algae for several weeks now, it's kind of pretty to watch wave in the water flow, but it's invading my plants ;) . Should I try adding more plants or wait it out some more? There are 8 potted plants in the tank and java moss on several rocks and the driftwood pieces and duckweed floating on top, I'm wondering if the hair algae is using up the nutrients that the duckweed normally does and that's why it's starting to die off? I got a lily for my 125 gallon tank a few weeks ago and it's doing great, it's a dwarf lily so it wont invade the tank ;). It already has a leaf floating on top and is working on 2 more (they are just shoots with a new leaf on the tip right now). Do all lily's bloom or only some varieties? I'm not sure what kind specifically it is as my LFS is awful about naming the plants and this last time they had pond plants mixed in with their normal aquatic plants and that's how I got the lily. I've read that lily's are very good nutrient eaters, is this correct? Either way it LOVES my walstad tank ;) LOL. I'm thinking that the 125 gallon tank has finally evened out and the black beard algae is no longer taking over everything so the plants must be starting to keep up with the nutrients I would assume ;). I've been slowly adding plants to the tank over the last few months though, I think I've added at least 7 in the last 3 months and all of them are doing good. Unfortunately my awful LFS sold me a non-aquatic plant *sigh*, I looked it up on plantgeek and it turns out it's called a pineapple plant and it slowly melts until it dies off, I would assume it's another plant that goes on the edge of a pond where the water is not going to submerge the plant. Unfortunately I can't research plants before I go their as they get in a shipment and all the plants are gone in the first 2 days, so you have to buy and run so to speak ;) LOL. The worker there will hold plants for me though, if she knows I'm looking for certain ones, so I try to tell her what kinds I'm looking for before they get their next plant shipment in. She held onto my dwarf baby tears for me and wouldn't let anyone buy them, LOL. It's good to have friends at the LFS ;) Amber

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 40770	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 6/9/2009
Subject: Is this normal?

Okay I had a potted plant in my betta/dwarf frog tank (10 gallon) and it was doing fine for about a month, the leaves were pale but there were new ones growing in. This weekend something awful happened to the plant, for some reason the pot spit all the dirt/gravel and plant out and it was floating in the tank on top of the water. I did a quick 50% water change as soon as I saw the tank after work and then did another PWC (a normal one) the next day, I know the first water change was a bit drastic but I wanted to get all the suspended soil out of the water. Thankfully the two occupants go to the surface for their air and it didn't seem to bother them too much ;). I was curious as to what might have caused this to happen? I noticed that the water smelled awful when I did the first PWC after the incident. Could there have been a pocket of bacteria in the pot/dirt that eventually bubbled up enough to throw all the gravel/dirt and plant out? This was my guess, but I wanted to see what other people thought. I haven't replanted the plant yet, I've left it floating on top for now until I figure out what might have caused the issue. Amber

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 40771	From: pam andress	Date: 6/9/2009
Subject: Re: Mystery fish

Looks like a tetra to me. Not sure what kind though. Pam To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com From: turbocoupe76@... Date: Tue, 9 Jun 2009 20:45:48 +0000 Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Mystery fish Interesting.... Ill try and take better pics but not use my cellphone. Let me clarify though. They do swim straight but when they sit still they do it at a 45* angle, sorta frozen. --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@...> wrote: > > Looks like an SAE (Siamese Algae Eater) or False SAE or maybe even a Flying > Fox. One pic is small and the other is blurry so I can't be sure. Check > out the pics on this page to see which one you have. > http://www.thekrib.com/Fish/Algae-Eaters/ Google for more images to compare > and be sure. > > They shouldn't swim at that 45o angle though. Looks like a swim bladder > issue with the rear lobe staying full of air. Some fish live full lives > with them as long as they have some control over one of the lobes. > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right > side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) > > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On > Behalf Of turbocoupe76 > Sent: Tuesday, June 09, 2009 10:56 AM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Subject: [AquaticLife] Mystery fish > > OK I posted 2 pics of my mystery fish in the Photo section. Anyone seen this > fish before? I havent lol > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 40772	From: kim carmean	Date: 6/9/2009
Subject: Re: Mystery fish

i have over 65 diff species of fish if i could see the pic i prob could tell   but ui cant find the pic --- On Tue, 6/9/09, pam andress <pamandress23@...> wrote: From: pam andress <pamandress23@...> Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: Mystery fish To: aquaticlife@yahoogroups.com Date: Tuesday, June 9, 2009, 5:10 PM Looks like a tetra to me. Not sure what kind though. Pam To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com From: turbocoupe76@ yahoo.com Date: Tue, 9 Jun 2009 20:45:48 +0000 Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Mystery fish Interesting. ... Ill try and take better pics but not use my cellphone. Let me clarify though. They do swim straight but when they sit still they do it at a 45* angle, sorta frozen. --- In AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com, "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@. ..> wrote: > > Looks like an SAE (Siamese Algae Eater) or False SAE or maybe even a Flying > Fox. One pic is small and the other is blurry so I can't be sure. Check > out the pics on this page to see which one you have. > http://www.thekrib. com/Fish/ Algae-Eaters/ Google for more images to compare > and be sure. > > They shouldn't swim at that 45o angle though. Looks like a swim bladder > issue with the rear lobe staying full of air. Some fish live full lives > with them as long as they have some control over one of the lobes. > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com > (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right > side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) > > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com [mailto:AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com] On > Behalf Of turbocoupe76 > Sent: Tuesday, June 09, 2009 10:56 AM > To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com > Subject: [AquaticLife] Mystery fish > > OK I posted 2 pics of my mystery fish in the Photo section. Anyone seen this > fish before? I havent lol > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 40773	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 6/9/2009
Subject: Re: photo in what album theres 240

Tough to tell from your photo. Look at http://www.jjphoto.dk/fish_archive/tetr4.htm Row 2 Column 2. Yours seems to have a thicker body. But that could just be the photo. \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Lenny V. aka GoldLenny Sent: Tuesday, June 09, 2009 1:36 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] photo in what album theres 240 Here's the link.... http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife/photos/album/626247460/pic/lis t For your reference and for others reading this, if you go to the Photo section of any Yahoo Group, on the top right, there's different sorting options including a link to "Last Modified" and if you click that, it will sort the albums so the most recently modified albums come to the top. That's how I almost always do it. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of kim Sent: Tuesday, June 09, 2009 11:04 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] photo in what album theres 240 photo in what album theres 240

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 40774	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 6/9/2009
Subject: Re: Mystery fish

Here's a Google Image Search on Siamese Algae Eater - http://images.google.com/images?oe=UTF-8&q=siamese%20algae%20eater&um=1&ie=U TF-8&sa=N&hl=en&tab=wi And the "Mystery Fish" - http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife/photos/album/626247460/pic/6142206 4/view?picmode=&mode=tn&order=ordinal&start=1&count=20&dir=asc If you open each link in a separate window and compare the two fish, they sure look the same. It's going to take Turbocoupe76 to compare his fish to the images on the Google Image Search or the link I gave earlier to be certain. I'm not sure of any Tetra's that look similar but there certainly could be one or more of them. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of pam andress Sent: Tuesday, June 09, 2009 4:11 PM To: aquaticlife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: Mystery fish Looks like a tetra to me. Not sure what kind though. Pam To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com From: turbocoupe76@... Date: Tue, 9 Jun 2009 20:45:48 +0000 Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Mystery fish Interesting.... Ill try and take better pics but not use my cellphone. Let me clarify though. They do swim straight but when they sit still they do it at a 45* angle, sorta frozen. --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@...> wrote: > > Looks like an SAE (Siamese Algae Eater) or False SAE or maybe even a > Flying Fox. One pic is small and the other is blurry so I can't be > sure. Check out the pics on this page to see which one you have. > http://www.thekrib.com/Fish/Algae-Eaters/ Google for more images to > compare and be sure. > > They shouldn't swim at that 45o angle though. Looks like a swim > bladder issue with the rear lobe staying full of air. Some fish live > full lives with them as long as they have some control over one of the lobes. > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles > referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically > under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) > > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] > On Behalf Of turbocoupe76 > Sent: Tuesday, June 09, 2009 10:56 AM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Subject: [AquaticLife] Mystery fish > > OK I posted 2 pics of my mystery fish in the Photo section. Anyone > seen this fish before? I havent lol > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] ------------------------------------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the home page. Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com to receive the digest, which includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com for the No E-Mail option where you will still be able to read messages on the group and post replies. Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com to receive individual e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 40775	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 6/9/2009
Subject: Re: photo in what album theres 240

Interesting fish \\Steve//. Here's an article in PFK with a nice picture also. http://www.practicalfishkeeping.co.uk/pfk/pages/show_article.php?article_id= 321 I'm still betting on my guess of it being an SAE or one of their look-a-likes, since they are far more common but that headstander sure has the same markings and body type and you have the headstanding thing going for you too... which I attributed to a swim bladder disorder. I guess we have to wait for TurboCoupe76 to make the final comparison and let us know. TurboCoupe76, Does your fish have any small barbels? Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Steve Szabo Sent: Tuesday, June 09, 2009 7:32 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] photo in what album theres 240 Tough to tell from your photo. Look at http://www.jjphoto.dk/fish_archive/tetr4.htm Row 2 Column 2. Yours seems to have a thicker body. But that could just be the photo. \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Lenny V. aka GoldLenny Sent: Tuesday, June 09, 2009 1:36 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] photo in what album theres 240 Here's the link.... http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife/photos/album/626247460/pic/list For your reference and for others reading this, if you go to the Photo section of any Yahoo Group, on the top right, there's different sorting options including a link to "Last Modified" and if you click that, it will sort the albums so the most recently modified albums come to the top. That's how I almost always do it. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of kim Sent: Tuesday, June 09, 2009 11:04 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] photo in what album theres 240 photo in what album theres 240

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 40776	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 6/9/2009
Subject: Golden nesaea

I bought some golden nesaea about a month or so ago and have it in my 55 gallon tank. I read that it helps to trim the leaves off of plants that have algae growing on them, my question is this: How do I know how much to trim off? I don't want to trim too much and kill off my plants. I have been regularly trimming the java moss as it grows algae really well ;) But I was going to try trimming up the other plants to help them grow new healthy growth. The whole top of the golden nesaea is covered in hair algae and I wanted to trim it off but wasn't sure how much I should cut. The plant is about 8 inches tall and has 3 stems, all of them are covered in hair algae from the top half approximately 4 inches worth. If I trim half of the plant off do you guys think it will still grow back okay? I just don't want to stress the plants out and kill them ;) I also have a 4 leaf clover that is covered in hair algae and it seems to grow fairly fast and is sending up new shoots with leaves, but it's getting covered just about as fast in hair algae, if I just snipped the whole top of the plant (new growth and all) would it grow back? Going to go down and do some trimming on the plants in the 125 gallon tomorrow (already lights out, but I suppose I could turn the lights on long enough to do some trimming, but I don't look forward to battling off the nasty egg guarding angels, LOL). Perhaps I'll trim those plants AFTER I move the angel's ;) Amber

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 40777	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 6/9/2009
Subject: flourish excel

Is it harmful to dose the tank with flourish excel when the lights are out on the tank? The instructions don't say anything about the lights being on or off. Amber

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 40778	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 6/9/2009
Subject: Re: Golden nesaea

You know, it might be time for you to run a phosphate pillow in your filter system and/or test your tanks for phosphates. Since your nitrates are OK in your test results, it has to be excessive phosphates, either from your water source or from your foods, especially since you are having algae issues in multiple tanks... not just from the soil in your Walstad tank. I don't have a recommendation for a phosphate pillow for you since I've never had to use one but look for one that can be re-used. They also have a phosphate test kit if you want to test the water before buying a phosphate removal product. Here's the API Phosphate Test Kit for $8.99. http://www.drsfostersmith.com/product/prod_display.cfm?c=3578+4345+15471&pca tid=15471 Here's DrsFosterSmith.com page of Phosphate Control products. I see Rena makes their own, probably to fit in the Filstar filter so check that one out... but look at the others as well to determine which is the best price/product. http://www.drsfostersmith.com/product/pet_supplies.cfm?c=3578+4136+8057 I can't help you with how much plant to cut off. While I do get some algae on a couple of my plants in my goldfish tank, I only cut off one or two leaves at a time if they get bad or look like they are not doing well. I put these leaves in the Cherry Shrimp tank for them to eat all the algae before I trash the leaf. Other times, I'll take a whole (small) plant and move it to my cherry shrimp tank for them to clean the algae off and then move it back to the goldfish tank once it's nice and shiny again. ;-) My Clown Pleco does OK but he hasn't gotten around to cleaning plants yet.. and maybe he won't since there's so much glass for him to work on. He does clean the clay pots but I haven't seen him on a plant yet, not even the broad leaf ones. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Amber Berglund Sent: Tuesday, June 09, 2009 8:54 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Golden nesaea I bought some golden nesaea about a month or so ago and have it in my 55 gallon tank. I read that it helps to trim the leaves off of plants that have algae growing on them, my question is this: How do I know how much to trim off? I don't want to trim too much and kill off my plants. I have been regularly trimming the java moss as it grows algae really well ;) But I was going to try trimming up the other plants to help them grow new healthy growth. The whole top of the golden nesaea is covered in hair algae and I wanted to trim it off but wasn't sure how much I should cut. The plant is about 8 inches tall and has 3 stems, all of them are covered in hair algae from the top half approximately 4 inches worth. If I trim half of the plant off do you guys think it will still grow back okay? I just don't want to stress the plants out and kill them ;) I also have a 4 leaf clover that is covered in hair algae and it seems to grow fairly fast and is sending up new shoots with leaves, but it's getting covered just about as fast in hair algae, if I just snipped the whole top of the plant (new growth and all) would it grow back? Going to go down and do some trimming on the plants in the 125 gallon tomorrow (already lights out, but I suppose I could turn the lights on long enough to do some trimming, but I don't look forward to battling off the nasty egg guarding angels, LOL). Perhaps I'll trim those plants AFTER I move the angel's ;) Amber

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 40779	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 6/9/2009
Subject: Re: One algae after the next...

I think I told you before that duckweed doesn't like a lot of surface agitation and will not reproduce well in those tanks. It grows THICK in my Cherry shrimp tank and I regularly put some into my goldfish tank for them to munch on but the duckweed will not proliferate in that tank due to the surface agitation and it being a snack to the goldfish. See my other reply in the Golden Nesaea thread, about your algae issues. I thought the Hillstream Loaches were supposed to be good algae eaters? Or is this not in their tank? Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Amber Berglund Sent: Tuesday, June 09, 2009 4:08 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] One algae after the next... Okay so all the fish are healthy in the 55 gallon and I haven't added any new plants for a few weeks at least, maybe more. I glued some of the java moss to rocks though instead of waiting for it to fully attach to my drift wood pieces. My duck weed is starting to die off and the hair algae is going crazy. I'm just thankful that I can see the fish though ;) It's not suspended in the water so I can deal with it, LOL. I'm wondering how long it is going to take for the tank to even itself out and the algae to start dieing off. I've had this hair algae for several weeks now, it's kind of pretty to watch wave in the water flow, but it's invading my plants ;) . Should I try adding more plants or wait it out some more? There are 8 potted plants in the tank and java moss on several rocks and the driftwood pieces and duckweed floating on top, I'm wondering if the hair algae is using up the nutrients that the duckweed normally does and that's why it's starting to die off? I got a lily for my 125 gallon tank a few weeks ago and it's doing great, it's a dwarf lily so it wont invade the tank ;). It already has a leaf floating on top and is working on 2 more (they are just shoots with a new leaf on the tip right now). Do all lily's bloom or only some varieties? I'm not sure what kind specifically it is as my LFS is awful about naming the plants and this last time they had pond plants mixed in with their normal aquatic plants and that's how I got the lily. I've read that lily's are very good nutrient eaters, is this correct? Either way it LOVES my walstad tank ;) LOL. I'm thinking that the 125 gallon tank has finally evened out and the black beard algae is no longer taking over everything so the plants must be starting to keep up with the nutrients I would assume ;). I've been slowly adding plants to the tank over the last few months though, I think I've added at least 7 in the last 3 months and all of them are doing good. Unfortunately my awful LFS sold me a non-aquatic plant *sigh*, I looked it up on plantgeek and it turns out it's called a pineapple plant and it slowly melts until it dies off, I would assume it's another plant that goes on the edge of a pond where the water is not going to submerge the plant. Unfortunately I can't research plants before I go their as they get in a shipment and all the plants are gone in the first 2 days, so you have to buy and run so to speak ;) LOL. The worker there will hold plants for me though, if she knows I'm looking for certain ones, so I try to tell her what kinds I'm looking for before they get their next plant shipment in. She held onto my dwarf baby tears for me and wouldn't let anyone buy them, LOL. It's good to have friends at the LFS ;) Amber

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 40780	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 6/9/2009
Subject: Re: Is this normal?

Hmmmm.. do you have a fish that could have pulled it out... or anyone in your house that could have? Maybe the frog saw something that it took for food (or it actually was a worm or bug) and grabbed hold of a part of the plant and started back stroking? I don't see how any kind of bubble would build up in the potted plant to where this could happen. Certainly, under the right conditions, a potted plant could become anaerobic, which could result in a hydrogen sulfide gas build up BUT... I doubt it would happen if the plant is alive and the roots would be sucking up nutrients and aerating the soil/gravel... so I'm still leaning towards the frog. Shine a light on him and put him through some EIT's (Enhanced Interrogation Techniques)... maybe frogger-boarding until he fesses up. And don't buy his "The Betta did it!" story or if he tries to blame it on a bird that stopped by. ;-) Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Amber Berglund Sent: Tuesday, June 09, 2009 4:16 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Is this normal? Okay I had a potted plant in my betta/dwarf frog tank (10 gallon) and it was doing fine for about a month, the leaves were pale but there were new ones growing in. This weekend something awful happened to the plant, for some reason the pot spit all the dirt/gravel and plant out and it was floating in the tank on top of the water. I did a quick 50% water change as soon as I saw the tank after work and then did another PWC (a normal one) the next day, I know the first water change was a bit drastic but I wanted to get all the suspended soil out of the water. Thankfully the two occupants go to the surface for their air and it didn't seem to bother them too much ;). I was curious as to what might have caused this to happen? I noticed that the water smelled awful when I did the first PWC after the incident. Could there have been a pocket of bacteria in the pot/dirt that eventually bubbled up enough to throw all the gravel/dirt and plant out? This was my guess, but I wanted to see what other people thought. I haven't replanted the plant yet, I've left it floating on top for now until I figure out what might have caused the issue. Amber

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 40781	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 6/9/2009
Subject: Re: flourish excel

It's supposed to be a time-release compound so that it releases equal levels of carbon for a 24 hour period but to me, it seems that it would be best dosed first thing in the morning or at least while there will still be plenty of light to allow the plants to use the carbon via photosynthesis. Seachem's page has LOTS of info and click "The FAQ's" link and I think they address your question... yep, see below, they answered it exactly as I did above. Dang, I'm smart... or maybe I just have a good memory from having read this stuff before. ;-) http://www.seachem.com/Products/product_pages/FlourishExcel.html Here's the Q&A from the FAQ's... Q: Is it better to add Flourish Excel at night or in the morning based upon plant carbon uptake physiology? A: Carbon intake is a function of photosynthesis. Based on this, it would be ideal to dose Flourish Excel during the day. But given that Flourish Excel can stay complexed as a carbon source for up to 24 hours before it dissipates, you can dose at any time of the day and the product will be available for the next 24 hours. Flourish Excel is not carbon dioxide and there is no impact on pH using Flourish Excel. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Amber Berglund Sent: Tuesday, June 09, 2009 9:30 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] flourish excel Is it harmful to dose the tank with flourish excel when the lights are out on the tank? The instructions don't say anything about the lights being on or off. Amber

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 40782	From: ironsidem	Date: 6/9/2009
Subject: sick orange betta is still sick

Hi, Thank you to those that dropped me a few notes on our sick Firefish last week.He's still alive. On the last day of treatment, he was swimming around like a fat marble, but at least still interested in his surroundings. He had improved since day one of his medicine. Today, he is probably a bit more bloated than in the pictures (just got some together under sick orange betta). Just stays on the bottom. Scales are still not raised. Don't really know what to do with him. And don't want him to be sufferring either. If anyone has suggestions, short of having a vet aspirate his fluid filled body (crazy pictures by the way!), I would appreciate it. My son is aware that Firefish is quite sick, and said himself that he might die soon. I wonder if there is anything else to try? Thanks, michelle

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 40783	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 6/9/2009
Subject: Re: One algae after the next...

The loaches are in the tank with black beard algae, and the 55 gallon doesn't have much surface tension it has a rena filstar xp 4 on it. The duckweed is still alive it's just getting attached to the hair algae and the parts that get attached die off. It's a battle of the plants and algae in my tanks ;) The 55 gallon only grows "regular" green algae and the black beard algae, I have read on a few sites that flourish excel is used to help combat algae issues as it will help the plants grow better and it also has an ingredient in it that harms the algae (I forget what it's called off the top of my head). I was giving it a shot in the 55 gallon to see if it helps against the hair algae, if it helps I may try it on the 125 gallon but that's a lot of flourish to be dosing with before trying it in a smaller quantity ;) I will look at getting a phosphate test kit to see what my phosphates are at. Amber Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > > > I think I told you before that duckweed doesn't like a lot of surface > agitation and will not reproduce well in those tanks. It grows THICK in my > Cherry shrimp tank and I regularly put some into my goldfish tank for them > to munch on but the duckweed will not proliferate in that tank due to the > surface agitation and it being a snack to the goldfish. > > See my other reply in the Golden Nesaea thread, about your algae issues. > > I thought the Hillstream Loaches were supposed to be good algae eaters? Or > is this not in their tank? > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right > side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) > > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On > Behalf Of Amber Berglund > Sent: Tuesday, June 09, 2009 4:08 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Subject: [AquaticLife] One algae after the next... > > Okay so all the fish are healthy in the 55 gallon and I haven't added any > new plants for a few weeks at least, maybe more. I glued some of the java > moss to rocks though instead of waiting for it to fully attach to my drift > wood pieces. My duck weed is starting to die off and the hair algae is > going > crazy. I'm just thankful that I can see the fish though > ;) It's not suspended in the water so I can deal with it, LOL. I'm > wondering > how long it is going to take for the tank to even itself out and the algae > to start dieing off. I've had this hair algae for several weeks now, it's > kind of pretty to watch wave in the water flow, but it's invading my > plants > ;) . Should I try adding more plants or wait it out some more? There are 8 > potted plants in the tank and java moss on several rocks and the driftwood > pieces and duckweed floating on top, I'm wondering if the hair algae is > using up the nutrients that the duckweed normally does and that's why it's > starting to die off? > > I got a lily for my 125 gallon tank a few weeks ago and it's doing great, > it's a dwarf lily so it wont invade the tank ;). It already has a leaf > floating on top and is working on 2 more (they are just shoots with a new > leaf on the tip right now). Do all lily's bloom or only some > varieties? I'm > not sure what kind specifically it is as my LFS is awful about naming the > plants and this last time they had pond plants mixed in with their normal > aquatic plants and that's how I got the lily. I've read that lily's > are very > good nutrient eaters, is this correct? Either way it LOVES my walstad tank > ;) LOL. I'm thinking that the 125 gallon tank has finally evened out > and the > black beard algae is no longer taking over everything so the plants > must be > starting to keep up with the nutrients I would assume ;). I've been slowly > adding plants to the tank over the last few months though, I think I've > added at least 7 in the last 3 months and all of them are doing good. > Unfortunately my awful LFS sold me a non-aquatic plant *sigh*, I looked it > up on plantgeek and it turns out it's called a pineapple plant and it > slowly > melts until it dies off, I would assume it's another plant that goes > on the > edge of a pond where the water is not going to submerge the plant. > Unfortunately I can't research plants before I go their as they get in a > shipment and all the plants are gone in the first 2 days, so you have > to buy > and run so to speak ;) LOL. The worker there will hold plants for me > though, > if she knows I'm looking for certain ones, so I try to tell her what kinds > I'm looking for before they get their next plant shipment in. She held > onto > my dwarf baby tears for me and wouldn't let anyone buy them, LOL. > It's good to have friends at the LFS ;) > > Amber > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 40784	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 6/9/2009
Subject: Re: Is this normal?

Well he's a dwarf frog so I don't know how well he'd do at digging up a plant, and he's never tried so far. I was almost afraid to try the plant in the pot again as I didn't want it to happen all over again ;) Perhaps the betta really did do it? ;) Amber Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > > > Hmmmm.. do you have a fish that could have pulled it out... or anyone in > your house that could have? Maybe the frog saw something that it took for > food (or it actually was a worm or bug) and grabbed hold of a part of the > plant and started back stroking? I don't see how any kind of bubble would > build up in the potted plant to where this could happen. Certainly, under > the right conditions, a potted plant could become anaerobic, which could > result in a hydrogen sulfide gas build up BUT... I doubt it would > happen if > the plant is alive and the roots would be sucking up nutrients and > aerating > the soil/gravel... so I'm still leaning towards the frog. Shine a light on > him and put him through some EIT's (Enhanced Interrogation Techniques)... > maybe frogger-boarding until he fesses up. And don't buy his "The > Betta did > it!" story or if he tries to blame it on a bird that stopped by. ;-) > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right > side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On > Behalf Of Amber Berglund > Sent: Tuesday, June 09, 2009 4:16 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Subject: [AquaticLife] Is this normal? > > Okay I had a potted plant in my betta/dwarf frog tank (10 gallon) and > it was > doing fine for about a month, the leaves were pale but there were new ones > growing in. This weekend something awful happened to the plant, for some > reason the pot spit all the dirt/gravel and plant out and it was > floating in > the tank on top of the water. I did a quick 50% water change as soon as I > saw the tank after work and then did another PWC (a normal one) the next > day, I know the first water change was a bit drastic but I wanted to > get all > the suspended soil out of the water. > Thankfully the two occupants go to the surface for their air and it didn't > seem to bother them too much ;). I was curious as to what might have > caused > this to happen? I noticed that the water smelled awful when I did the > first > PWC after the incident. Could there have been a pocket of bacteria in the > pot/dirt that eventually bubbled up enough to throw all the > gravel/dirt and > plant out? This was my guess, but I wanted to see what other people > thought. > I haven't replanted the plant yet, I've left it floating on top for now > until I figure out what might have caused the issue. > > Amber > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 40785	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 6/9/2009
Subject: Re: flourish excel

Thanks Lenny :) I dosed it this evening when the lights were still on but they weren't on for very long (a couple of hours), at least I know it will still be in the water tomorrow when I go to dose the daily dosage ;) Amber Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > > > It's supposed to be a time-release compound so that it releases equal > levels > of carbon for a 24 hour period but to me, it seems that it would be best > dosed first thing in the morning or at least while there will still be > plenty of light to allow the plants to use the carbon via photosynthesis. > > Seachem's page has LOTS of info and click "The FAQ's" link and I think > they > address your question... yep, see below, they answered it exactly as I did > above. Dang, I'm smart... or maybe I just have a good memory from having > read this stuff before. ;-) > > http://www.seachem.com/Products/product_pages/FlourishExcel.html > <http://www.seachem.com/Products/product_pages/FlourishExcel.html> > > Here's the Q&A from the FAQ's... > > Q: Is it better to add Flourish Excel at night or in the morning based > upon > plant carbon uptake physiology? > > A: Carbon intake is a function of photosynthesis. Based on this, it > would be > ideal to dose Flourish Excel during the day. But given that Flourish Excel > can stay complexed as a carbon source for up to 24 hours before it > dissipates, you can dose at any time of the day and the product will be > available for the next 24 hours. Flourish Excel is not carbon dioxide and > there is no impact on pH using Flourish Excel. > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right > side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On > Behalf Of Amber Berglund > Sent: Tuesday, June 09, 2009 9:30 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Subject: [AquaticLife] flourish excel > > Is it harmful to dose the tank with flourish excel when the lights are out > on the tank? > The instructions don't say anything about the lights being on or off. > > Amber > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 40786	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 6/9/2009
Subject: Re: One algae after the next...

Whoops I'm tired, I really meant to say, "The 125 gallon only grows "regular" green algae and black beard algae..." No duckweed in the 125 gallon... The 55 gallon has the hair algae, and is just now starting to grow "regular" green algae on the glass instead of hair algae (which is what has been growing on the glass the last few weeks). Sleepy, Amber Amber Berglund wrote: > > > The loaches are in the tank with black beard algae, and the 55 gallon > doesn't have much surface tension it has a rena filstar xp 4 on it. The > duckweed is still alive it's just getting attached to the hair algae and > the parts that get attached die off. It's a battle of the plants and > algae in my tanks ;) > The 55 gallon only grows "regular" green algae and the black beard > algae, I have read on a few sites that flourish excel is used to help > combat algae issues as it will help the plants grow better and it also > has an ingredient in it that harms the algae (I forget what it's called > off the top of my head). I was giving it a shot in the 55 gallon to see > if it helps against the hair algae, if it helps I may try it on the 125 > gallon but that's a lot of flourish to be dosing with before trying it > in a smaller quantity ;) > > I will look at getting a phosphate test kit to see what my phosphates > are at. > > Amber > > Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > > > > > > I think I told you before that duckweed doesn't like a lot of surface > > agitation and will not reproduce well in those tanks. It grows THICK > in my > > Cherry shrimp tank and I regularly put some into my goldfish tank > for them > > to munch on but the duckweed will not proliferate in that tank due > to the > > surface agitation and it being a snack to the goldfish. > > > > See my other reply in the Golden Nesaea thread, about your algae issues. > > > > I thought the Hillstream Loaches were supposed to be good algae > eaters? Or > > is this not in their tank? > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>> > > (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right > > side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, > Month) > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On > > Behalf Of Amber Berglund > > Sent: Tuesday, June 09, 2009 4:08 PM > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > Subject: [AquaticLife] One algae after the next... > > > > Okay so all the fish are healthy in the 55 gallon and I haven't > added any > > new plants for a few weeks at least, maybe more. I glued some of the > java > > moss to rocks though instead of waiting for it to fully attach to my > drift > > wood pieces. My duck weed is starting to die off and the hair algae is > > going > > crazy. I'm just thankful that I can see the fish though > > ;) It's not suspended in the water so I can deal with it, LOL. I'm > > wondering > > how long it is going to take for the tank to even itself out and the > algae > > to start dieing off. I've had this hair algae for several weeks now, > it's > > kind of pretty to watch wave in the water flow, but it's invading my > > plants > > ;) . Should I try adding more plants or wait it out some more? There > are 8 > > potted plants in the tank and java moss on several rocks and the > driftwood > > pieces and duckweed floating on top, I'm wondering if the hair algae is > > using up the nutrients that the duckweed normally does and that's > why it's > > starting to die off? > > > > I got a lily for my 125 gallon tank a few weeks ago and it's doing > great, > > it's a dwarf lily so it wont invade the tank ;). It already has a leaf > > floating on top and is working on 2 more (they are just shoots with > a new > > leaf on the tip right now). Do all lily's bloom or only some > > varieties? I'm > > not sure what kind specifically it is as my LFS is awful about > naming the > > plants and this last time they had pond plants mixed in with their > normal > > aquatic plants and that's how I got the lily. I've read that lily's > > are very > > good nutrient eaters, is this correct? Either way it LOVES my > walstad tank > > ;) LOL. I'm thinking that the 125 gallon tank has finally evened out > > and the > > black beard algae is no longer taking over everything so the plants > > must be > > starting to keep up with the nutrients I would assume ;). I've been > slowly > > adding plants to the tank over the last few months though, I think I've > > added at least 7 in the last 3 months and all of them are doing good. > > Unfortunately my awful LFS sold me a non-aquatic plant *sigh*, I > looked it > > up on plantgeek and it turns out it's called a pineapple plant and it > > slowly > > melts until it dies off, I would assume it's another plant that goes > > on the > > edge of a pond where the water is not going to submerge the plant. > > Unfortunately I can't research plants before I go their as they get in a > > shipment and all the plants are gone in the first 2 days, so you have > > to buy > > and run so to speak ;) LOL. The worker there will hold plants for me > > though, > > if she knows I'm looking for certain ones, so I try to tell her what > kinds > > I'm looking for before they get their next plant shipment in. She held > > onto > > my dwarf baby tears for me and wouldn't let anyone buy them, LOL. > > It's good to have friends at the LFS ;) > > > > Amber > > > > > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 40787	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 6/9/2009
Subject: Re: One algae after the next...

I think I'm gonna have to name the tanks, I'm starting to get too many to just say "the 55 gallon" LOL ;) I have the 2nd 55 gallon still empty, hubby has to weld the stand together *tap tap tap*. Can't say upstairs and downstairs either cuz there's more than 1 upstairs and more then 1 downstairs ;) could name them letters ;) We have tank A, tank B, tank C, tank D, and the Q tank ;) LOL Amber Amber Berglund wrote: > > > Whoops I'm tired, I really meant to say, "The 125 gallon only grows > "regular" green algae and black beard algae..." No duckweed in the 125 > gallon... > The 55 gallon has the hair algae, and is just now starting to grow > "regular" green algae on the glass instead of hair algae (which is what > has been growing on the glass the last few weeks). > > Sleepy, > Amber > > Amber Berglund wrote: > > > > > > The loaches are in the tank with black beard algae, and the 55 gallon > > doesn't have much surface tension it has a rena filstar xp 4 on it. The > > duckweed is still alive it's just getting attached to the hair algae and > > the parts that get attached die off. It's a battle of the plants and > > algae in my tanks ;) > > The 55 gallon only grows "regular" green algae and the black beard > > algae, I have read on a few sites that flourish excel is used to help > > combat algae issues as it will help the plants grow better and it also > > has an ingredient in it that harms the algae (I forget what it's called > > off the top of my head). I was giving it a shot in the 55 gallon to see > > if it helps against the hair algae, if it helps I may try it on the 125 > > gallon but that's a lot of flourish to be dosing with before trying it > > in a smaller quantity ;) > > > > I will look at getting a phosphate test kit to see what my phosphates > > are at. > > > > Amber > > > > Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > > > > > > > > > I think I told you before that duckweed doesn't like a lot of surface > > > agitation and will not reproduce well in those tanks. It grows THICK > > in my > > > Cherry shrimp tank and I regularly put some into my goldfish tank > > for them > > > to munch on but the duckweed will not proliferate in that tank due > > to the > > > surface agitation and it being a snack to the goldfish. > > > > > > See my other reply in the Golden Nesaea thread, about your algae > issues. > > > > > > I thought the Hillstream Loaches were supposed to be good algae > > eaters? Or > > > is this not in their tank? > > > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>>> > > > (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the > right > > > side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, > > Month) > > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On > > > Behalf Of Amber Berglund > > > Sent: Tuesday, June 09, 2009 4:08 PM > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > Subject: [AquaticLife] One algae after the next... > > > > > > Okay so all the fish are healthy in the 55 gallon and I haven't > > added any > > > new plants for a few weeks at least, maybe more. I glued some of the > > java > > > moss to rocks though instead of waiting for it to fully attach to my > > drift > > > wood pieces. My duck weed is starting to die off and the hair algae is > > > going > > > crazy. I'm just thankful that I can see the fish though > > > ;) It's not suspended in the water so I can deal with it, LOL. I'm > > > wondering > > > how long it is going to take for the tank to even itself out and the > > algae > > > to start dieing off. I've had this hair algae for several weeks now, > > it's > > > kind of pretty to watch wave in the water flow, but it's invading my > > > plants > > > ;) . Should I try adding more plants or wait it out some more? There > > are 8 > > > potted plants in the tank and java moss on several rocks and the > > driftwood > > > pieces and duckweed floating on top, I'm wondering if the hair > algae is > > > using up the nutrients that the duckweed normally does and that's > > why it's > > > starting to die off? > > > > > > I got a lily for my 125 gallon tank a few weeks ago and it's doing > > great, > > > it's a dwarf lily so it wont invade the tank ;). It already has a leaf > > > floating on top and is working on 2 more (they are just shoots with > > a new > > > leaf on the tip right now). Do all lily's bloom or only some > > > varieties? I'm > > > not sure what kind specifically it is as my LFS is awful about > > naming the > > > plants and this last time they had pond plants mixed in with their > > normal > > > aquatic plants and that's how I got the lily. I've read that lily's > > > are very > > > good nutrient eaters, is this correct? Either way it LOVES my > > walstad tank > > > ;) LOL. I'm thinking that the 125 gallon tank has finally evened out > > > and the > > > black beard algae is no longer taking over everything so the plants > > > must be > > > starting to keep up with the nutrients I would assume ;). I've been > > slowly > > > adding plants to the tank over the last few months though, I think > I've > > > added at least 7 in the last 3 months and all of them are doing good. > > > Unfortunately my awful LFS sold me a non-aquatic plant *sigh*, I > > looked it > > > up on plantgeek and it turns out it's called a pineapple plant and it > > > slowly > > > melts until it dies off, I would assume it's another plant that goes > > > on the > > > edge of a pond where the water is not going to submerge the plant. > > > Unfortunately I can't research plants before I go their as they > get in a > > > shipment and all the plants are gone in the first 2 days, so you have > > > to buy > > > and run so to speak ;) LOL. The worker there will hold plants for me > > > though, > > > if she knows I'm looking for certain ones, so I try to tell her what > > kinds > > > I'm looking for before they get their next plant shipment in. She held > > > onto > > > my dwarf baby tears for me and wouldn't let anyone buy them, LOL. > > > It's good to have friends at the LFS ;) > > > > > > Amber > > > > > > > > > > > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 40788	From: Courtland Jacob	Date: 6/9/2009
Subject: baby cichlids

so my obliquens had babies a while back and a few are getting pretty big, anyone interested in buying some in the near future? the female was rolling new eggs not too long ago, and then one day her mouth was empty, i was pretty pissed off... hopefully she'll have more, just not sure how often they can have eggs, i want to add another female or two to increase chances, if i can't find someone to buy the local store will take them, he gives me a fair percent as store credit, which i use for supplies so it all works out

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 40789	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 6/9/2009
Subject: Re: sick orange betta is still sick

I saw your pics. He certainly looks much like that goldfish did in the article and forum threads that I gave you earlier in this thread. I had a Gourami that got bloated and I cured, but he wasn't as bad as your guy. It was shortly after Katrina and none of the stores were re-opened down here so all I had was Melafix and Pimafix and used them as a cocktail and the Gourami got better. I forget what you are using but if it's a "real" antibiotic, that is probably better than the Melafix/Pimafix cocktail. BUT.. if it's not a bacterial infection causing the bloating and it's just a cyst, then nothing will work. In my case, I knew it was bacterial because of poop diagnosis. Have you observed your fish pooping? What does it look like? Here's a couple of fish poop diagnosis pages that we use for goldfish and other fish have similar poop diagnosis. http://www.kokosgoldfish.com/GoldfishPoop.html http://www.fishyfarmacy.com/fish_diseases/fecal_disorders.html If the meds do not work and you do not want to use a Vet or do the aspiration thing yourself, then your next consideration, if the fish is truly suffering, would be to do a humane euthanasia. Here's a couple of sites I have in my favorites, and on my blog, with detailed instructions. From my blog's Health/Disease page... "And if all else fails... Humane euthanasia: http://www.wisegeek.com/what-is-the-most-humane-way-to-euthanize-a-fish.htm Clove Oil Method of Euthanasia: http://www.aquatic-hobbyist.com/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=14" BUT... I believe most creatures and humans have a God-given strong will to live, so do everything that is reasonably possible to give it a chance to live and get well before using a humane Euthanasia method. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of ironsidem Sent: Tuesday, June 09, 2009 11:27 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] sick orange betta is still sick Hi, Thank you to those that dropped me a few notes on our sick Firefish last week.He's still alive. On the last day of treatment, he was swimming around like a fat marble, but at least still interested in his surroundings. He had improved since day one of his medicine. Today, he is probably a bit more bloated than in the pictures (just got some together under sick orange betta). Just stays on the bottom. Scales are still not raised. Don't really know what to do with him. And don't want him to be sufferring either. If anyone has suggestions, short of having a vet aspirate his fluid filled body (crazy pictures by the way!), I would appreciate it. My son is aware that Firefish is quite sick, and said himself that he might die soon. I wonder if there is anything else to try? Thanks, michelle

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 40790	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 6/9/2009
Subject: Re: One algae after the next...

Yes, THE FAQ's on the Seachem site actually addresses using/overdosing Excel to combat algae and many fish keepers have reported success with it. BUT.. if you have a phosphate problem that can be solved, that would be the better option as constant dosing of Excel on multiple tanks can get expensive. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Amber Berglund Sent: Wednesday, June 10, 2009 12:18 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] One algae after the next... The loaches are in the tank with black beard algae, and the 55 gallon doesn't have much surface tension it has a rena filstar xp 4 on it. The duckweed is still alive it's just getting attached to the hair algae and the parts that get attached die off. It's a battle of the plants and algae in my tanks ;) The 55 gallon only grows "regular" green algae and the black beard algae, I have read on a few sites that flourish excel is used to help combat algae issues as it will help the plants grow better and it also has an ingredient in it that harms the algae (I forget what it's called off the top of my head). I was giving it a shot in the 55 gallon to see if it helps against the hair algae, if it helps I may try it on the 125 gallon but that's a lot of flourish to be dosing with before trying it in a smaller quantity ;) I will look at getting a phosphate test kit to see what my phosphates are at. Amber Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > > > I think I told you before that duckweed doesn't like a lot of surface > agitation and will not reproduce well in those tanks. It grows THICK > in my Cherry shrimp tank and I regularly put some into my goldfish > tank for them to munch on but the duckweed will not proliferate in > that tank due to the surface agitation and it being a snack to the goldfish. > > See my other reply in the Golden Nesaea thread, about your algae issues. > > I thought the Hillstream Loaches were supposed to be good algae > eaters? Or is this not in their tank? > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> (Links to any articles referenced in > above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels > and also under Archives by Year, Month) > > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On Behalf Of Amber Berglund > Sent: Tuesday, June 09, 2009 4:08 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Subject: [AquaticLife] One algae after the next... > > Okay so all the fish are healthy in the 55 gallon and I haven't added > any new plants for a few weeks at least, maybe more. I glued some of > the java moss to rocks though instead of waiting for it to fully > attach to my drift wood pieces. My duck weed is starting to die off > and the hair algae is going crazy. I'm just thankful that I can see > the fish though > ;) It's not suspended in the water so I can deal with it, LOL. I'm > wondering how long it is going to take for the tank to even itself out > and the algae to start dieing off. I've had this hair algae for > several weeks now, it's kind of pretty to watch wave in the water > flow, but it's invading my plants > ;) . Should I try adding more plants or wait it out some more? There > are 8 potted plants in the tank and java moss on several rocks and the > driftwood pieces and duckweed floating on top, I'm wondering if the > hair algae is using up the nutrients that the duckweed normally does > and that's why it's starting to die off? > > I got a lily for my 125 gallon tank a few weeks ago and it's doing > great, it's a dwarf lily so it wont invade the tank ;). It already has > a leaf floating on top and is working on 2 more (they are just shoots > with a new leaf on the tip right now). Do all lily's bloom or only > some varieties? I'm not sure what kind specifically it is as my LFS is > awful about naming the plants and this last time they had pond plants > mixed in with their normal aquatic plants and that's how I got the > lily. I've read that lily's are very good nutrient eaters, is this > correct? Either way it LOVES my walstad tank > ;) LOL. I'm thinking that the 125 gallon tank has finally evened out > and the black beard algae is no longer taking over everything so the > plants must be starting to keep up with the nutrients I would assume > ;). I've been slowly adding plants to the tank over the last few > months though, I think I've added at least 7 in the last 3 months and > all of them are doing good. > Unfortunately my awful LFS sold me a non-aquatic plant *sigh*, I > looked it up on plantgeek and it turns out it's called a pineapple > plant and it slowly melts until it dies off, I would assume it's > another plant that goes on the edge of a pond where the water is not > going to submerge the plant. > Unfortunately I can't research plants before I go their as they get in > a shipment and all the plants are gone in the first 2 days, so you > have to buy and run so to speak ;) LOL. The worker there will hold > plants for me though, if she knows I'm looking for certain ones, so I > try to tell her what kinds I'm looking for before they get their next > plant shipment in. She held onto my dwarf baby tears for me and > wouldn't let anyone buy them, LOL. > It's good to have friends at the LFS ;) > > Amber

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 40791	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 6/9/2009
Subject: Re: One algae after the next...

If you use Outlook for your email, you could create a LONG signature with all of your tank's details. That's how I do it in other non-Yahoo Group forums. That way, all of my tank's info and inhabitants were listed in every post. When I had MTS (like you), my sig got quite long and sometimes someone would complain but it was a lot easier than trying to re-type the info all the time. With Outlook, you could create multiple signatures, one for each tank and only insert the applicable signatures, when needed, even at the top of your posts to give everyone the tank details ahead of time before you start your post. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Amber Berglund Sent: Wednesday, June 10, 2009 12:29 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] One algae after the next... I think I'm gonna have to name the tanks, I'm starting to get too many to just say "the 55 gallon" LOL ;) I have the 2nd 55 gallon still empty, hubby has to weld the stand together *tap tap tap*. Can't say upstairs and downstairs either cuz there's more than 1 upstairs and more then 1 downstairs ;) could name them letters ;) We have tank A, tank B, tank C, tank D, and the Q tank ;) LOL Amber Amber Berglund wrote: > > > Whoops I'm tired, I really meant to say, "The 125 gallon only grows > "regular" green algae and black beard algae..." No duckweed in the 125 > gallon... > The 55 gallon has the hair algae, and is just now starting to grow > "regular" green algae on the glass instead of hair algae (which is > what has been growing on the glass the last few weeks). > > Sleepy, > Amber > > Amber Berglund wrote: > > > > > > The loaches are in the tank with black beard algae, and the 55 > > gallon doesn't have much surface tension it has a rena filstar xp 4 > > on it. The duckweed is still alive it's just getting attached to the > > hair algae and the parts that get attached die off. It's a battle of > > the plants and algae in my tanks ;) The 55 gallon only grows > > "regular" green algae and the black beard algae, I have read on a > > few sites that flourish excel is used to help combat algae issues as > > it will help the plants grow better and it also has an ingredient in > > it that harms the algae (I forget what it's called off the top of my > > head). I was giving it a shot in the 55 gallon to see if it helps > > against the hair algae, if it helps I may try it on the 125 gallon > > but that's a lot of flourish to be dosing with before trying it in a > > smaller quantity ;) > > > > I will look at getting a phosphate test kit to see what my > > phosphates are at. > > > > Amber > > > > Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > > > > > > > > > I think I told you before that duckweed doesn't like a lot of > > > surface agitation and will not reproduce well in those tanks. It > > > grows THICK > > in my > > > Cherry shrimp tank and I regularly put some into my goldfish tank > > for them > > > to munch on but the duckweed will not proliferate in that tank due > > to the > > > surface agitation and it being a snack to the goldfish. > > > > > > See my other reply in the Golden Nesaea thread, about your algae > issues. > > > > > > I thought the Hillstream Loaches were supposed to be good algae > > eaters? Or > > > is this not in their tank? > > > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>>> > > > (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the > right > > > side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, > > Month) > > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On Behalf Of Amber > > > Berglund > > > Sent: Tuesday, June 09, 2009 4:08 PM > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > Subject: [AquaticLife] One algae after the next... > > > > > > Okay so all the fish are healthy in the 55 gallon and I haven't > > added any > > > new plants for a few weeks at least, maybe more. I glued some of > > > the > > java > > > moss to rocks though instead of waiting for it to fully attach to > > > my > > drift > > > wood pieces. My duck weed is starting to die off and the hair > > > algae is going crazy. I'm just thankful that I can see the fish > > > though > > > ;) It's not suspended in the water so I can deal with it, LOL. I'm > > > wondering how long it is going to take for the tank to even itself > > > out and the > > algae > > > to start dieing off. I've had this hair algae for several weeks > > > now, > > it's > > > kind of pretty to watch wave in the water flow, but it's invading > > > my plants > > > ;) . Should I try adding more plants or wait it out some more? > > > There > > are 8 > > > potted plants in the tank and java moss on several rocks and the > > driftwood > > > pieces and duckweed floating on top, I'm wondering if the hair > algae is > > > using up the nutrients that the duckweed normally does and that's > > why it's > > > starting to die off? > > > > > > I got a lily for my 125 gallon tank a few weeks ago and it's doing > > great, > > > it's a dwarf lily so it wont invade the tank ;). It already has a > > > leaf floating on top and is working on 2 more (they are just > > > shoots with > > a new > > > leaf on the tip right now). Do all lily's bloom or only some > > > varieties? I'm not sure what kind specifically it is as my LFS is > > > awful about > > naming the > > > plants and this last time they had pond plants mixed in with their > > normal > > > aquatic plants and that's how I got the lily. I've read that > > > lily's are very good nutrient eaters, is this correct? Either way > > > it LOVES my > > walstad tank > > > ;) LOL. I'm thinking that the 125 gallon tank has finally evened > > > out and the black beard algae is no longer taking over everything > > > so the plants must be starting to keep up with the nutrients I > > > would assume ;). I've been > > slowly > > > adding plants to the tank over the last few months though, I think > I've > > > added at least 7 in the last 3 months and all of them are doing good. > > > Unfortunately my awful LFS sold me a non-aquatic plant *sigh*, I > > looked it > > > up on plantgeek and it turns out it's called a pineapple plant and > > > it slowly melts until it dies off, I would assume it's another > > > plant that goes on the edge of a pond where the water is not going > > > to submerge the plant. > > > Unfortunately I can't research plants before I go their as they > get in a > > > shipment and all the plants are gone in the first 2 days, so you > > > have to buy and run so to speak ;) LOL. The worker there will hold > > > plants for me though, if she knows I'm looking for certain ones, > > > so I try to tell her what > > kinds > > > I'm looking for before they get their next plant shipment in. She > > > held onto my dwarf baby tears for me and wouldn't let anyone buy > > > them, LOL. > > > It's good to have friends at the LFS ;) > > > > > > Amber

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 40792	From: Dora Smith	Date: 6/9/2009
Subject: Re: sick orange betta is still sick

I think that bettas get constipated easily, especially if fed dried food. It's very easy to feed them too much of it. I don't know what to do for thsi problem, however. Noone has yet told me what to do with my betta with the greenish-white spot on its face. I noticed it when I'd had the fish for less than 24 hours, and it is in a gallon and a half plastic container full of fresh spring water. Yours, Dora Smith Austin, TX tiggernut24@... ----- Original Message ----- From: "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@...> To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Wednesday, June 10, 2009 12:57 AM Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] sick orange betta is still sick I saw your pics. He certainly looks much like that goldfish did in the article and forum threads that I gave you earlier in this thread.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 40793	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 6/9/2009
Subject: Re: sick orange betta is still sick

Dora, You should check your thread. I replied and possibly others. Of course, you might have trouble finding your thread since you posted your new issue into an existing thread about something else (aka hijacking a thread). I changed the Subject line when I replied, to try and separate the threads, so you'll have to look for it. I do not recall how long ago that was and I know that the Search function in Yahoo Groups is still buggy so I'm not sure you'll find it with a Search either. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Dora Smith Sent: Wednesday, June 10, 2009 1:12 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] sick orange betta is still sick I think that bettas get constipated easily, especially if fed dried food. It's very easy to feed them too much of it. I don't know what to do for thsi problem, however. Noone has yet told me what to do with my betta with the greenish-white spot on its face. I noticed it when I'd had the fish for less than 24 hours, and it is in a gallon and a half plastic container full of fresh spring water. Yours, Dora Smith Austin, TX tiggernut24@... ----- Original Message ----- From: "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@...> To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Wednesday, June 10, 2009 12:57 AM Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] sick orange betta is still sick I saw your pics. He certainly looks much like that goldfish did in the article and forum threads that I gave you earlier in this thread.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 40794	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 6/9/2009
Subject: Re: sick orange betta is still sick

On 6/7 at 9:32 pm you responded ;) LOL Look for Dora in the subject that may help you out there ;) Amber Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > > > Dora, > > You should check your thread. I replied and possibly others. Of course, > you might have trouble finding your thread since you posted your new issue > into an existing thread about something else (aka hijacking a thread). I > changed the Subject line when I replied, to try and separate the > threads, so > you'll have to look for it. I do not recall how long ago that was and I > know that the Search function in Yahoo Groups is still buggy so I'm > not sure > you'll find it with a Search either. > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right > side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On > Behalf Of Dora Smith > Sent: Wednesday, June 10, 2009 1:12 AM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] sick orange betta is still sick > > I think that bettas get constipated easily, especially if fed dried food. > It's very easy to feed them too much of it. I don't know what to do for > thsi problem, however. > > Noone has yet told me what to do with my betta with the greenish-white > spot > on its face. I noticed it when I'd had the fish for less than 24 hours, > and it is in a gallon and a half plastic container full of fresh spring > water. > Yours, > Dora Smith > Austin, TX > tiggernut24@... <mailto:tiggernut24%40yahoo.com> > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@... > <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com>> > To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>> > Sent: Wednesday, June 10, 2009 12:57 AM > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] sick orange betta is still sick > > I saw your pics. He certainly looks much like that goldfish did in the > article and forum threads that I gave you earlier in this thread. > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 40795	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 6/9/2009
Subject: Re: sick orange betta is still sick

I did a Google Desktop Search of my own computer and found my reply. Here's the original post by Dora in another thread and my reply is right after it but it stayed in the same thread instead of starting up a new thread. I thought, by changing the subject line, Yahoo Groups would create a new thread. Guess not. Dora's post in the "HELP! I think I have White Spot" thread... http://pets.groups.yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife/message/40725 My reply, changing the subject to, "Dora's Betta Question (Was: HELP! I think I have White Spot)"... http://pets.groups.yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife/message/40727 Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Amber Berglund Sent: Wednesday, June 10, 2009 1:31 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] sick orange betta is still sick On 6/7 at 9:32 pm you responded ;) LOL Look for Dora in the subject that may help you out there ;) Amber Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > > > Dora, > > You should check your thread. I replied and possibly others. Of > course, you might have trouble finding your thread since you posted > your new issue into an existing thread about something else (aka > hijacking a thread). I changed the Subject line when I replied, to try > and separate the threads, so you'll have to look for it. I do not > recall how long ago that was and I know that the Search function in > Yahoo Groups is still buggy so I'm not sure you'll find it with a > Search either. > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> (Links to any articles referenced in > above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels > and also under Archives by Year, Month) > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On Behalf Of Dora Smith > Sent: Wednesday, June 10, 2009 1:12 AM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] sick orange betta is still sick > > I think that bettas get constipated easily, especially if fed dried food. > It's very easy to feed them too much of it. I don't know what to do > for thsi problem, however. > > Noone has yet told me what to do with my betta with the greenish-white > spot on its face. I noticed it when I'd had the fish for less than 24 > hours, and it is in a gallon and a half plastic container full of > fresh spring water. > Yours, > Dora Smith > Austin, TX > tiggernut24@... <mailto:tiggernut24%40yahoo.com> > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@... > <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com>> > To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>> > Sent: Wednesday, June 10, 2009 12:57 AM > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] sick orange betta is still sick > > I saw your pics. He certainly looks much like that goldfish did in the > article and forum threads that I gave you earlier in this thread. > > ------------------------------------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the home page. Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com to receive the digest, which includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com for the No E-Mail option where you will still be able to read messages on the group and post replies. Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com to receive individual e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 40796	From: Donna Ransome	Date: 6/10/2009
Subject: Re: One algae after the next...

55G 125G even shorter than tank A. Works as long as you don’t have 2 that are the same size, LOL. _____ From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Amber Berglund Sent: Wednesday, June 10, 2009 1:29 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] One algae after the next... I think I'm gonna have to name the tanks, I'm starting to get too many to just say "the 55 gallon" LOL ;) I have the 2nd 55 gallon still empty, hubby has to weld the stand together *tap tap tap*. Can't say upstairs and downstairs either cuz there's more than 1 upstairs and more then 1 downstairs ;) could name them letters ;) We have tank A, tank B, tank C, tank D, and the Q tank ;) LOL Amber Amber Berglund wrote: > > > Whoops I'm tired, I really meant to say, "The 125 gallon only grows > "regular" green algae and black beard algae..." No duckweed in the 125 > gallon... > The 55 gallon has the hair algae, and is just now starting to grow > "regular" green algae on the glass instead of hair algae (which is what > has been growing on the glass the last few weeks). > > Sleepy, > Amber > > Amber Berglund wrote: > > > > > > The loaches are in the tank with black beard algae, and the 55 gallon > > doesn't have much surface tension it has a rena filstar xp 4 on it. The > > duckweed is still alive it's just getting attached to the hair algae and > > the parts that get attached die off. It's a battle of the plants and > > algae in my tanks ;) > > The 55 gallon only grows "regular" green algae and the black beard > > algae, I have read on a few sites that flourish excel is used to help > > combat algae issues as it will help the plants grow better and it also > > has an ingredient in it that harms the algae (I forget what it's called > > off the top of my head). I was giving it a shot in the 55 gallon to see > > if it helps against the hair algae, if it helps I may try it on the 125 > > gallon but that's a lot of flourish to be dosing with before trying it > > in a smaller quantity ;) > > > > I will look at getting a phosphate test kit to see what my phosphates > > are at. > > > > Amber > > > > Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > > > > > > > > > I think I told you before that duckweed doesn't like a lot of surface > > > agitation and will not reproduce well in those tanks. It grows THICK > > in my > > > Cherry shrimp tank and I regularly put some into my goldfish tank > > for them > > > to munch on but the duckweed will not proliferate in that tank due > > to the > > > surface agitation and it being a snack to the goldfish. > > > > > > See my other reply in the Golden Nesaea thread, about your algae > issues. > > > > > > I thought the Hillstream Loaches were supposed to be good algae > > eaters? Or > > > is this not in their tank? > > > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> blogspot.com> > > <http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> blogspot.com>> > <http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> blogspot.com> > > <http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> blogspot.com>>> > > > (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the > right > > > side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, > > Month) > > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > From: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > [mailto:AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On > > > Behalf Of Amber Berglund > > > Sent: Tuesday, June 09, 2009 4:08 PM > > > To: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > Subject: [AquaticLife] One algae after the next... > > > > > > Okay so all the fish are healthy in the 55 gallon and I haven't > > added any > > > new plants for a few weeks at least, maybe more. I glued some of the > > java > > > moss to rocks though instead of waiting for it to fully attach to my > > drift > > > wood pieces. My duck weed is starting to die off and the hair algae is > > > going > > > crazy. I'm just thankful that I can see the fish though > > > ;) It's not suspended in the water so I can deal with it, LOL. I'm > > > wondering > > > how long it is going to take for the tank to even itself out and the > > algae > > > to start dieing off. I've had this hair algae for several weeks now, > > it's > > > kind of pretty to watch wave in the water flow, but it's invading my > > > plants > > > ;) . Should I try adding more plants or wait it out some more? There > > are 8 > > > potted plants in the tank and java moss on several rocks and the > > driftwood > > > pieces and duckweed floating on top, I'm wondering if the hair > algae is > > > using up the nutrients that the duckweed normally does and that's > > why it's > > > starting to die off? > > > > > > I got a lily for my 125 gallon tank a few weeks ago and it's doing > > great, > > > it's a dwarf lily so it wont invade the tank ;). It already has a leaf > > > floating on top and is working on 2 more (they are just shoots with > > a new > > > leaf on the tip right now). Do all lily's bloom or only some > > > varieties? I'm > > > not sure what kind specifically it is as my LFS is awful about > > naming the > > > plants and this last time they had pond plants mixed in with their > > normal > > > aquatic plants and that's how I got the lily. I've read that lily's > > > are very > > > good nutrient eaters, is this correct? Either way it LOVES my > > walstad tank > > > ;) LOL. I'm thinking that the 125 gallon tank has finally evened out > > > and the > > > black beard algae is no longer taking over everything so the plants > > > must be > > > starting to keep up with the nutrients I would assume ;). I've been > > slowly > > > adding plants to the tank over the last few months though, I think > I've > > > added at least 7 in the last 3 months and all of them are doing good. > > > Unfortunately my awful LFS sold me a non-aquatic plant *sigh*, I > > looked it > > > up on plantgeek and it turns out it's called a pineapple plant and it > > > slowly > > > melts until it dies off, I would assume it's another plant that goes > > > on the > > > edge of a pond where the water is not going to submerge the plant. > > > Unfortunately I can't research plants before I go their as they > get in a > > > shipment and all the plants are gone in the first 2 days, so you have > > > to buy > > > and run so to speak ;) LOL. The worker there will hold plants for me > > > though, > > > if she knows I'm looking for certain ones, so I try to tell her what > > kinds > > > I'm looking for before they get their next plant shipment in. She held > > > onto > > > my dwarf baby tears for me and wouldn't let anyone buy them, LOL. > > > It's good to have friends at the LFS ;) > > > > > > Amber > > > > > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 40797	From: Donna Ransome	Date: 6/10/2009
Subject: Re: One algae after the next...

Try hydrogen peroxide, it worked for me. My hair algae does not grow on the glass though, when I had that bright green stuff on the glass I thought that was beard algae. Anyway I have brush and hair and hydrogen peroxide gets it off surfaces (but not plants). For that I had success with Vallisneria until my snails killed it. I've gotten the algae under control on the various surfaces, and I just replanted the Vallisneria to outcompete it so it will leave my slower growing plants alone. My bristlenose plecos and zebra nerite snails also seem to do a pretty good job on the glass now. I just added the nerites a week or so ago. _____ From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Lenny V. aka GoldLenny Sent: Wednesday, June 10, 2009 2:00 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] One algae after the next... Yes, THE FAQ's on the Seachem site actually addresses using/overdosing Excel to combat algae and many fish keepers have reported success with it. BUT.. if you have a phosphate problem that can be solved, that would be the better option as constant dosing of Excel on multiple tanks can get expensive. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Amber Berglund Sent: Wednesday, June 10, 2009 12:18 AM To: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] One algae after the next... The loaches are in the tank with black beard algae, and the 55 gallon doesn't have much surface tension it has a rena filstar xp 4 on it. The duckweed is still alive it's just getting attached to the hair algae and the parts that get attached die off. It's a battle of the plants and algae in my tanks ;) The 55 gallon only grows "regular" green algae and the black beard algae, I have read on a few sites that flourish excel is used to help combat algae issues as it will help the plants grow better and it also has an ingredient in it that harms the algae (I forget what it's called off the top of my head). I was giving it a shot in the 55 gallon to see if it helps against the hair algae, if it helps I may try it on the 125 gallon but that's a lot of flourish to be dosing with before trying it in a smaller quantity ;) I will look at getting a phosphate test kit to see what my phosphates are at. Amber Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > > > I think I told you before that duckweed doesn't like a lot of surface > agitation and will not reproduce well in those tanks. It grows THICK > in my Cherry shrimp tank and I regularly put some into my goldfish > tank for them to munch on but the duckweed will not proliferate in > that tank due to the surface agitation and it being a snack to the goldfish. > > See my other reply in the Golden Nesaea thread, about your algae issues. > > I thought the Hillstream Loaches were supposed to be good algae > eaters? Or is this not in their tank? > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> blogspot.com> (Links to any articles referenced in > above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels > and also under Archives by Year, Month) > > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > [mailto:AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On Behalf Of Amber Berglund > Sent: Tuesday, June 09, 2009 4:08 PM > To: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Subject: [AquaticLife] One algae after the next... > > Okay so all the fish are healthy in the 55 gallon and I haven't added > any new plants for a few weeks at least, maybe more. I glued some of > the java moss to rocks though instead of waiting for it to fully > attach to my drift wood pieces. My duck weed is starting to die off > and the hair algae is going crazy. I'm just thankful that I can see > the fish though > ;) It's not suspended in the water so I can deal with it, LOL. I'm > wondering how long it is going to take for the tank to even itself out > and the algae to start dieing off. I've had this hair algae for > several weeks now, it's kind of pretty to watch wave in the water > flow, but it's invading my plants > ;) . Should I try adding more plants or wait it out some more? There > are 8 potted plants in the tank and java moss on several rocks and the > driftwood pieces and duckweed floating on top, I'm wondering if the > hair algae is using up the nutrients that the duckweed normally does > and that's why it's starting to die off? > > I got a lily for my 125 gallon tank a few weeks ago and it's doing > great, it's a dwarf lily so it wont invade the tank ;). It already has > a leaf floating on top and is working on 2 more (they are just shoots > with a new leaf on the tip right now). Do all lily's bloom or only > some varieties? I'm not sure what kind specifically it is as my LFS is > awful about naming the plants and this last time they had pond plants > mixed in with their normal aquatic plants and that's how I got the > lily. I've read that lily's are very good nutrient eaters, is this > correct? Either way it LOVES my walstad tank > ;) LOL. I'm thinking that the 125 gallon tank has finally evened out > and the black beard algae is no longer taking over everything so the > plants must be starting to keep up with the nutrients I would assume > ;). I've been slowly adding plants to the tank over the last few > months though, I think I've added at least 7 in the last 3 months and > all of them are doing good. > Unfortunately my awful LFS sold me a non-aquatic plant *sigh*, I > looked it up on plantgeek and it turns out it's called a pineapple > plant and it slowly melts until it dies off, I would assume it's > another plant that goes on the edge of a pond where the water is not > going to submerge the plant. > Unfortunately I can't research plants before I go their as they get in > a shipment and all the plants are gone in the first 2 days, so you > have to buy and run so to speak ;) LOL. The worker there will hold > plants for me though, if she knows I'm looking for certain ones, so I > try to tell her what kinds I'm looking for before they get their next > plant shipment in. She held onto my dwarf baby tears for me and > wouldn't let anyone buy them, LOL. > It's good to have friends at the LFS ;) > > Amber [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 40798	From: Dora Smith	Date: 6/10/2009
Subject: Re: sick orange betta is still sick

You did, huh? I never saw it - will have to look in the list archives when I get back tonight. Yours, Dora Smith Austin, TX tiggernut24@... ----- Original Message ----- From: "Amber Berglund" <amber@...> To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Wednesday, June 10, 2009 1:31 AM Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] sick orange betta is still sick > On 6/7 at 9:32 pm you responded ;) LOL > Look for Dora in the subject that may help you out there ;) > > Amber > > Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: >> >> >> Dora, >> >> You should check your thread. I replied and possibly others. Of course, >> you might have trouble finding your thread since you posted your new >> issue >> into an existing thread about something else (aka hijacking a thread). I >> changed the Subject line when I replied, to try and separate the >> threads, so >> you'll have to look for it. I do not recall how long ago that was and I >> know that the Search function in Yahoo Groups is still buggy so I'm >> not sure >> you'll find it with a Search either. >> >> Lenny Vasbinder >> Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> >> (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right >> side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com >> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> >> [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com >> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On >> Behalf Of Dora Smith >> Sent: Wednesday, June 10, 2009 1:12 AM >> To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> >> Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] sick orange betta is still sick >> >> I think that bettas get constipated easily, especially if fed dried food. >> It's very easy to feed them too much of it. I don't know what to do for >> thsi problem, however. >> >> Noone has yet told me what to do with my betta with the greenish-white >> spot >> on its face. I noticed it when I'd had the fish for less than 24 hours, >> and it is in a gallon and a half plastic container full of fresh spring >> water. >> Yours, >> Dora Smith >> Austin, TX >> tiggernut24@... <mailto:tiggernut24%40yahoo.com> >> ----- Original Message ----- >> From: "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@... >> <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com>> >> To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>> >> Sent: Wednesday, June 10, 2009 12:57 AM >> Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] sick orange betta is still sick >> >> I saw your pics. He certainly looks much like that goldfish did in the >> article and forum threads that I gave you earlier in this thread. >> >> > > > ------------------------------------ > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. > ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> > PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to > the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the > SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- > <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. > > If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of unsubscribing, you > can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the > home page. > > Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com to receive the digest, which > includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email > > Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com for the No E-Mail option where > you will still be able to read messages on the group and post replies. > > Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com to receive individual > e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links > > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 40799	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 6/10/2009
Subject: Re: One algae after the next...

I have a 125 gallon, 2 x 55 gallons, and 3 x 10 gallons (one is a QT tank). That's why I was trying to rename them ;) Amber Donna Ransome wrote: > > > 55G…125G…even shorter than tank A. Works as long as you don’t have 2 that > are the same size, LOL. > > _____ > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On > Behalf Of Amber Berglund > Sent: Wednesday, June 10, 2009 1:29 AM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] One algae after the next... > > I think I'm gonna have to name the tanks, I'm starting to get too many > to just say "the 55 gallon" LOL ;) > I have the 2nd 55 gallon still empty, hubby has to weld the stand > together *tap tap tap*. > Can't say upstairs and downstairs either cuz there's more than 1 > upstairs and more then 1 downstairs ;) > could name them letters ;) We have tank A, tank B, tank C, tank D, and > the Q tank ;) LOL > > Amber > > Amber Berglund wrote: > > > > > > Whoops I'm tired, I really meant to say, "The 125 gallon only grows > > "regular" green algae and black beard algae..." No duckweed in the 125 > > gallon... > > The 55 gallon has the hair algae, and is just now starting to grow > > "regular" green algae on the glass instead of hair algae (which is what > > has been growing on the glass the last few weeks). > > > > Sleepy, > > Amber > > > > Amber Berglund wrote: > > > > > > > > > The loaches are in the tank with black beard algae, and the 55 gallon > > > doesn't have much surface tension it has a rena filstar xp 4 on > it. The > > > duckweed is still alive it's just getting attached to the hair > algae and > > > the parts that get attached die off. It's a battle of the plants and > > > algae in my tanks ;) > > > The 55 gallon only grows "regular" green algae and the black beard > > > algae, I have read on a few sites that flourish excel is used to help > > > combat algae issues as it will help the plants grow better and it also > > > has an ingredient in it that harms the algae (I forget what it's > called > > > off the top of my head). I was giving it a shot in the 55 gallon > to see > > > if it helps against the hair algae, if it helps I may try it on > the 125 > > > gallon but that's a lot of flourish to be dosing with before trying it > > > in a smaller quantity ;) > > > > > > I will look at getting a phosphate test kit to see what my phosphates > > > are at. > > > > > > Amber > > > > > > Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > I think I told you before that duckweed doesn't like a lot of > surface > > > > agitation and will not reproduce well in those tanks. It grows THICK > > > in my > > > > Cherry shrimp tank and I regularly put some into my goldfish tank > > > for them > > > > to munch on but the duckweed will not proliferate in that tank due > > > to the > > > > surface agitation and it being a snack to the goldfish. > > > > > > > > See my other reply in the Golden Nesaea thread, about your algae > > issues. > > > > > > > > I thought the Hillstream Loaches were supposed to be good algae > > > eaters? Or > > > > is this not in their tank? > > > > > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>> > blogspot.com > > <http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>> blogspot.com> > > > <http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>> blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>> blogspot.com>> > > <http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>> blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>> blogspot.com> > > > <http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>> blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>> blogspot.com>>> > > > > (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the > > right > > > > side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, > > > Month) > > > > > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > > From: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > yahoogroups.com > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > [mailto:AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > yahoogroups.com > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On > > > > Behalf Of Amber Berglund > > > > Sent: Tuesday, June 09, 2009 4:08 PM > > > > To: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > yahoogroups.com > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > Subject: [AquaticLife] One algae after the next... > > > > > > > > Okay so all the fish are healthy in the 55 gallon and I haven't > > > added any > > > > new plants for a few weeks at least, maybe more. I glued some of the > > > java > > > > moss to rocks though instead of waiting for it to fully attach to my > > > drift > > > > wood pieces. My duck weed is starting to die off and the hair > algae is > > > > going > > > > crazy. I'm just thankful that I can see the fish though > > > > ;) It's not suspended in the water so I can deal with it, LOL. I'm > > > > wondering > > > > how long it is going to take for the tank to even itself out and the > > > algae > > > > to start dieing off. I've had this hair algae for several weeks now, > > > it's > > > > kind of pretty to watch wave in the water flow, but it's invading my > > > > plants > > > > ;) . Should I try adding more plants or wait it out some more? There > > > are 8 > > > > potted plants in the tank and java moss on several rocks and the > > > driftwood > > > > pieces and duckweed floating on top, I'm wondering if the hair > > algae is > > > > using up the nutrients that the duckweed normally does and that's > > > why it's > > > > starting to die off? > > > > > > > > I got a lily for my 125 gallon tank a few weeks ago and it's doing > > > great, > > > > it's a dwarf lily so it wont invade the tank ;). It already has > a leaf > > > > floating on top and is working on 2 more (they are just shoots with > > > a new > > > > leaf on the tip right now). Do all lily's bloom or only some > > > > varieties? I'm > > > > not sure what kind specifically it is as my LFS is awful about > > > naming the > > > > plants and this last time they had pond plants mixed in with their > > > normal > > > > aquatic plants and that's how I got the lily. I've read that lily's > > > > are very > > > > good nutrient eaters, is this correct? Either way it LOVES my > > > walstad tank > > > > ;) LOL. I'm thinking that the 125 gallon tank has finally evened out > > > > and the > > > > black beard algae is no longer taking over everything so the plants > > > > must be > > > > starting to keep up with the nutrients I would assume ;). I've been > > > slowly > > > > adding plants to the tank over the last few months though, I think > > I've > > > > added at least 7 in the last 3 months and all of them are doing > good. > > > > Unfortunately my awful LFS sold me a non-aquatic plant *sigh*, I > > > looked it > > > > up on plantgeek and it turns out it's called a pineapple plant > and it > > > > slowly > > > > melts until it dies off, I would assume it's another plant that goes > > > > on the > > > > edge of a pond where the water is not going to submerge the plant. > > > > Unfortunately I can't research plants before I go their as they > > get in a > > > > shipment and all the plants are gone in the first 2 days, so you > have > > > > to buy > > > > and run so to speak ;) LOL. The worker there will hold plants for me > > > > though, > > > > if she knows I'm looking for certain ones, so I try to tell her what > > > kinds > > > > I'm looking for before they get their next plant shipment in. > She held > > > > onto > > > > my dwarf baby tears for me and wouldn't let anyone buy them, LOL. > > > > It's good to have friends at the LFS ;) > > > > > > > > Amber > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 40800	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 6/10/2009
Subject: Re: One algae after the next...

I tried that trick on the black beard algae and I gave up after a week or so as it wasn't doing anything for it. I suppose I could take all the ornaments out that have the BB algae growing on it and dunk it in hydrogen peroxide and see if it kills it then. I have a lot of it growing on plants too, but I did haircuts last night so hopefully I will see new growth soon. Amber Donna Ransome wrote: > > > Try hydrogen peroxide, it worked for me. My hair algae does not grow > on the > glass though, when I had that bright green stuff on the glass I > thought that > was beard algae. Anyway I have brush and hair and hydrogen peroxide > gets it > off surfaces (but not plants). For that I had success with Vallisneria > until my snails killed it. > > I've gotten the algae under control on the various surfaces, and I just > replanted the Vallisneria to outcompete it so it will leave my slower > growing plants alone. > > My bristlenose plecos and zebra nerite snails also seem to do a pretty > good > job on the glass now. I just added the nerites a week or so ago. > > _____ > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On > Behalf Of Lenny V. aka GoldLenny > Sent: Wednesday, June 10, 2009 2:00 AM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] One algae after the next... > > Yes, THE FAQ's on the Seachem site actually addresses using/overdosing > Excel > to combat algae and many fish keepers have reported success with it. BUT.. > if you have a phosphate problem that can be solved, that would be the > better > option as constant dosing of Excel on multiple tanks can get expensive. > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>> blogspot.com > (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right > side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com > [mailto:AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > yahoogroups.com] > On > Behalf Of Amber Berglund > Sent: Wednesday, June 10, 2009 12:18 AM > To: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] One algae after the next... > > The loaches are in the tank with black beard algae, and the 55 gallon > doesn't have much surface tension it has a rena filstar xp 4 on it. The > duckweed is still alive it's just getting attached to the hair algae > and the > parts that get attached die off. It's a battle of the plants and algae > in my > tanks ;) The 55 gallon only grows "regular" green algae and the black > beard > algae, I have read on a few sites that flourish excel is used to help > combat > algae issues as it will help the plants grow better and it also has an > ingredient in it that harms the algae (I forget what it's called off > the top > of my head). I was giving it a shot in the 55 gallon to see if it helps > against the hair algae, if it helps I may try it on the 125 gallon but > that's a lot of flourish to be dosing with before trying it in a smaller > quantity ;) > > I will look at getting a phosphate test kit to see what my phosphates are > at. > > Amber > > Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > > > > > > I think I told you before that duckweed doesn't like a lot of surface > > agitation and will not reproduce well in those tanks. It grows THICK > > in my Cherry shrimp tank and I regularly put some into my goldfish > > tank for them to munch on but the duckweed will not proliferate in > > that tank due to the surface agitation and it being a snack to the > goldfish. > > > > See my other reply in the Golden Nesaea thread, about your algae issues. > > > > I thought the Hillstream Loaches were supposed to be good algae > > eaters? Or is this not in their tank? > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>> blogspot.com > > > <http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>> blogspot.com> (Links to > any articles referenced in > > above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels > > and also under Archives by Year, Month) > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > yahoogroups.com > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > [mailto:AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > yahoogroups.com > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On Behalf Of Amber Berglund > > Sent: Tuesday, June 09, 2009 4:08 PM > > To: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > Subject: [AquaticLife] One algae after the next... > > > > Okay so all the fish are healthy in the 55 gallon and I haven't added > > any new plants for a few weeks at least, maybe more. I glued some of > > the java moss to rocks though instead of waiting for it to fully > > attach to my drift wood pieces. My duck weed is starting to die off > > and the hair algae is going crazy. I'm just thankful that I can see > > the fish though > > ;) It's not suspended in the water so I can deal with it, LOL. I'm > > wondering how long it is going to take for the tank to even itself out > > and the algae to start dieing off. I've had this hair algae for > > several weeks now, it's kind of pretty to watch wave in the water > > flow, but it's invading my plants > > ;) . Should I try adding more plants or wait it out some more? There > > are 8 potted plants in the tank and java moss on several rocks and the > > driftwood pieces and duckweed floating on top, I'm wondering if the > > hair algae is using up the nutrients that the duckweed normally does > > and that's why it's starting to die off? > > > > I got a lily for my 125 gallon tank a few weeks ago and it's doing > > great, it's a dwarf lily so it wont invade the tank ;). It already has > > a leaf floating on top and is working on 2 more (they are just shoots > > with a new leaf on the tip right now). Do all lily's bloom or only > > some varieties? I'm not sure what kind specifically it is as my LFS is > > awful about naming the plants and this last time they had pond plants > > mixed in with their normal aquatic plants and that's how I got the > > lily. I've read that lily's are very good nutrient eaters, is this > > correct? Either way it LOVES my walstad tank > > ;) LOL. I'm thinking that the 125 gallon tank has finally evened out > > and the black beard algae is no longer taking over everything so the > > plants must be starting to keep up with the nutrients I would assume > > ;). I've been slowly adding plants to the tank over the last few > > months though, I think I've added at least 7 in the last 3 months and > > all of them are doing good. > > Unfortunately my awful LFS sold me a non-aquatic plant *sigh*, I > > looked it up on plantgeek and it turns out it's called a pineapple > > plant and it slowly melts until it dies off, I would assume it's > > another plant that goes on the edge of a pond where the water is not > > going to submerge the plant. > > Unfortunately I can't research plants before I go their as they get in > > a shipment and all the plants are gone in the first 2 days, so you > > have to buy and run so to speak ;) LOL. The worker there will hold > > plants for me though, if she knows I'm looking for certain ones, so I > > try to tell her what kinds I'm looking for before they get their next > > plant shipment in. She held onto my dwarf baby tears for me and > > wouldn't let anyone buy them, LOL. > > It's good to have friends at the LFS ;) > > > > Amber > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 40801	From: Harl Myers	Date: 6/10/2009
Subject: Re: Baby Platy survived!

Well, you could take a tip from another movie, Grumpy Old Me, and put a dead catfish somewhere in his car... Seems like a sort of Justice... On 6/3/09, Amber Berglund <amber@...> wrote: > > > > I tried talking to the LFS worker and she said my chances of getting the > catfish traded in are slim unless the owner is feeling really nice that > day. He's a huge grump so I really don't feel like trying to argue with > him on whether or not he should be selling the fish in town. I've been > working so darn much since this summer season started the beginning of > may that I just haven't had chance to get the guy netted and brought > back out to the LFS. I really don't enjoy feeding him my expensive fish > at all ;) > If the LFS doesn't take him back is it bad to think about releasing him > into one of our freshwater lakes? ;) LOL, that's just a joke I'll make > the LFS take him back for free if I have to ;) > > Amber > > Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > > > > > > You know. You should also go and buy some $25/lb. filet mignon to feed > the > > stray cats around your condos.... since you like feeding expensive > > foods to > > strays. ;-) > > > > I can't believe you still have that dang catfish. It seems like it has > > been > > a couple of months since you came to the conclusion that it's a > red-tailed > > catfish. You should have brought it back immediately and MADE that dang > > fish store owner take it back. He shouldn't be selling fish like that in > > the first place. > > > > If the owner won't take it back, find out where he lives and then put the > > head of the catfish in his bed... ala the horse head in the bed in "The > > Godfather". That will send him a message. ;-) > > > > Or you could keep the catfish and keep feeding him all your other fish > > till > > you have a BIG catfish in your 125G and then you can work on turning your > > spare bedroom into a built-in tank to house the red-tailed catfish to > full > > size. > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com<http://goldlenny.blogspot.com/>< > http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://goldlenny.blogspot.com/>> > > (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right > > side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com <AquaticLife%2540yahoogroups.com>> > > > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com <AquaticLife%2540yahoogroups.com>>] > On > > Behalf Of Amber Berglund > > Sent: Wednesday, June 03, 2009 4:42 PM > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto: > AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com <AquaticLife%2540yahoogroups.com>> > > Subject: [AquaticLife] Baby Platy survived! > > > > I'm shocked but a baby platy has managed to survive in my 125 gallon tank > > and not get eaten by anything and it looks like it's several weeks old at > > this point. It's one of my orange platy's so it also sticks out from the > > plants pretty well ;). It's about a quarter of an inch long including > > tail. > > I'm not sure if I should try netting it and moving it to the fry tank > > or if > > I should let it be, so far I haven't managed to keep any platy fry and > > raise > > them to adult size, not sure why but they don't make it in the fry > > tank with > > the guppy's. I have been making sure to feed the tank really well > > lately so > > that the monster catfish doesn't eat anything and it's been working > > for this > > week, but I'm pretty sure he ate one of my rams :( Bad catfish, shouldn't > > eat my favorite fish, it should know better ;) LOL. > > > > He's going back to the fish store for sure this week, even if they won't > > trade him in I'd rather take him back than keep finding fish missing. > > The owner is not that nice and rarely trade's fish back in :( He's also > > getting huge and his red tail is starting to get darker ;) Definitely > > a red > > tailed catfish I would say. He's easily doubled in size since I got him. > > Also a healthy eater ;) LOL. > > > > Amber > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 40802	From: Kevin Henggeler	Date: 6/10/2009
Subject: protien skimmers

i have a 30 gallon tank that i would like to start as a reef tank and i was wondering which protien skimmer i should go with. i am looking at seaclone 100 and coralife superskimmer 65. i wanted something that i could use on a bigger tank if i jumped up to a 55. any suggestions on which i should go with. i can get a better deal on the seaclone but i wonder if the coralife is a better product. if you have any other suggestions i am all ears. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 40803	From: ironsidem	Date: 6/10/2009
Subject: Re: sick orange betta is still sick

Hi, Thanks for all the help. I've tried epsom salt, Bettafix, and last week was Kanaplex. I have a hard time looking at him because I'm scared to find he's popped. But I have to look at him because we're truly hoping to see improvement. I was told the Kanaplex was strong and would help if that is his problem. Don't think bacterial is his problem though..... Michelle --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "ironsidem" <ironsidem@...> wrote: > > Hi, > > Thank you to those that dropped me a few notes on our sick Firefish last week.He's still alive. > > On the last day of treatment, he was swimming around like a fat marble, but at least still interested in his surroundings. He had improved since day one of his medicine. > > Today, he is probably a bit more bloated than in the pictures (just got some together under sick orange betta). Just stays on the bottom. Scales are still not raised. Don't really know what to do with him. And don't want him to be sufferring either. > > If anyone has suggestions, short of having a vet aspirate his fluid filled body (crazy pictures by the way!), I would appreciate it. My son is aware that Firefish is quite sick, and said himself that he might die soon. I wonder if there is anything else to try? > > Thanks, > michelle >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 40804	From: SaraRamirezRocks@aol.com	Date: 6/10/2009
Subject: Re: flourish excel

I always use this product however I am not an expert as many on here are.  But I have used the product weekly for about 5 years now regardless of lights on or off.  Shannon -----Original Message----- From: Amber Berglund <amber@...> To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Tue, 9 Jun 2009 6:29 pm Subject: [AquaticLife] flourish excel Is it harmful to dose the tank with flourish excel when the lights are out on the tank? The instructions don't say anything about the lights being on or off. Amber [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 40805	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 6/10/2009
Subject: Re: flourish excel

Since I added the flourish excel yesterday I have noticed that my cory's are not quite as active and they are not swimming at the top of the tank very much at all, they still surface for air now and then though. They aren't sensitive to flourish excel right? I didn't read that anywhere... Amber SaraRamirezRocks@... wrote: > > > > I always use this product however I am not an expert as many on here > are. But I have used the product weekly for about 5 years now > regardless of lights on or off. Shannon > > -----Original Message----- > From: Amber Berglund <amber@... > <mailto:amber%40rose-fields.com>> > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Sent: Tue, 9 Jun 2009 6:29 pm > Subject: [AquaticLife] flourish excel > > Is it harmful to dose the tank with flourish excel when the lights are > > out on the tank? > > The instructions don't say anything about the lights being on or off. > > Amber > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 40806	From: Debra	Date: 6/10/2009
Subject: Re: sick orange betta is still sick

Michelle: I saw your post earlier concerning euthanising your Betta. I would like to share a method I've used successfully in rescuing Betta's from those nasty little cups which I'm very much opposed to. But, when I've seen Bettas covered in fungus living in filthy water I have on occasion purchased them and brought them home. I set up two containers (large bowls with wide mouths) and clean dechlorinated water and whatever medicine I have chosen to use. Starting with bowl one the Betta stays 24 hours then moves to bowl two. Bowl one is then washed and set up with fresh water/medicine, after 24 hours the fished is moved again. This process continues often for several weeks moving the fish every 24 hours until he is well. I keep the bowls in my fish room which is pretty quiet and low light. After the fish heals I stair step them up through larger tanks with more and more activity. Maybe you can try this method and see if it works for you. As long as your fish is eating it's worth a try. Betta's seem to be pretty tough fish with a strong will to survive. Hope this helps. Deb OS, MS Sent via BlackBerry by AT&T -----Original Message----- From: "ironsidem" <ironsidem@...> Date: Wed, 10 Jun 2009 15:55:59 To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com> Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: sick orange betta is still sick Hi, Thanks for all the help. I've tried epsom salt, Bettafix, and last week was Kanaplex. I have a hard time looking at him because I'm scared to find he's popped. But I have to look at him because we're truly hoping to see improvement. I was told the Kanaplex was strong and would help if that is his problem. Don't think bacterial is his problem though..... Michelle --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "ironsidem" <ironsidem@...> wrote: > > Hi, > > Thank you to those that dropped me a few notes on our sick Firefish last week.He's still alive. > > On the last day of treatment, he was swimming around like a fat marble, but at least still interested in his surroundings. He had improved since day one of his medicine. > > Today, he is probably a bit more bloated than in the pictures (just got some together under sick orange betta). Just stays on the bottom. Scales are still not raised. Don't really know what to do with him. And don't want him to be sufferring either. > > If anyone has suggestions, short of having a vet aspirate his fluid filled body (crazy pictures by the way!), I would appreciate it. My son is aware that Firefish is quite sick, and said himself that he might die soon. I wonder if there is anything else to try? > > Thanks, > michelle > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 40807	From: SaraRamirezRocks@aol.com	Date: 6/10/2009
Subject: Re: flourish excel

Gosh that is a great question, I have had cory's for the life of my tank but havent been successful keeping a few of the more sensative kinds so perhaps that is a issue.? I hope someone can tell us. Shannon -----Original Message----- From: Amber Berglund <amber@...> To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Wed, 10 Jun 2009 1:19 pm Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] flourish excel Since I added the flourish excel yesterday I have noticed that my cory's are not quite as active and they are not swimming at the top of the tank very much at all, they still surface for air now and then though. They aren't sensitive to flourish excel right? I didn't read that anywhere... Amber SaraRamirezRocks@... wrote: > > > > I always use this product however I am not an expert as many on here > are. But I have used the product weekly for about 5 years now > regardless of lights on or off. Shannon > > -----Original Message----- > From: Amber Berglund <amber@... > <mailto:amber%40rose-fields.com>> > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Sent: Tue, 9 Jun 2009 6:29 pm > Subject: [AquaticLife] flourish excel > > Is it harmful to dose the tank with flourish excel when the lights are > > out on the tank? > > The instructions don't say anything about the lights being on or off. > > Amber > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 40808	From: gardengoddesses2	Date: 6/10/2009
Subject: Introduction: Hi my name is Tawny, I am new to the group

Hi Everyone, Thanks for letting me join your group. My name is Tawny and I live on 4 acres in Mandeville Louisiana. This is 45 minutes away from New Orleans. My husband is working on putting a pond in and I just wanted to know if anyone had any suggestions on what types of fish and plants do best in ponds. Any advice at all will be greatly appreciated. I have a friend from freecycle that is going to give me some Butterfly Koi. Do Koi get along with other fish? I would like to have a variety of fish in the pond. Thanks, Tawny

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 40809	From: greychildren	Date: 6/10/2009
Subject: hi group need some advice on a 48' light fixture

Hi i just finish my new 55g set up but I'm having some issue with the 48ich all glass aquarium light fixture. it sits on the versa tops i think its not a good idea sense water splashes from my cascade filters on the tank. I been looking for the company that made the light fixture but there not around. I needed to set up the light fixture like they have on the new ones that have legs making it hand above the tank. is there another alternative besides buying another light strip fixture? Also this light were used for a saltwater reef tank are they good for freshwater setup?

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 40810	From: Donna Ransome	Date: 6/10/2009
Subject: Re: One algae after the next...

I keep a bucket of hydrogen peroxide solution near tank when doing PWC. Rocks come out and go in bucket during PWC. Hydrogen peroxide (tiny amount) is drizzled on my in tank background. Replace and refill as usual. This is done weekly until under control and then as required. The stuff starts shedding the next day. _____ From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Amber Berglund Sent: Wednesday, June 10, 2009 11:08 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] One algae after the next... I tried that trick on the black beard algae and I gave up after a week or so as it wasn't doing anything for it. I suppose I could take all the ornaments out that have the BB algae growing on it and dunk it in hydrogen peroxide and see if it kills it then. I have a lot of it growing on plants too, but I did haircuts last night so hopefully I will see new growth soon. Amber Donna Ransome wrote: > > > Try hydrogen peroxide, it worked for me. My hair algae does not grow > on the > glass though, when I had that bright green stuff on the glass I > thought that > was beard algae. Anyway I have brush and hair and hydrogen peroxide > gets it > off surfaces (but not plants). For that I had success with Vallisneria > until my snails killed it. > > I've gotten the algae under control on the various surfaces, and I just > replanted the Vallisneria to outcompete it so it will leave my slower > growing plants alone. > > My bristlenose plecos and zebra nerite snails also seem to do a pretty > good > job on the glass now. I just added the nerites a week or so ago. > > _____ > > From: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > [mailto:AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On > Behalf Of Lenny V. aka GoldLenny > Sent: Wednesday, June 10, 2009 2:00 AM > To: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] One algae after the next... > > Yes, THE FAQ's on the Seachem site actually addresses using/overdosing > Excel > to combat algae and many fish keepers have reported success with it. BUT.. > if you have a phosphate problem that can be solved, that would be the > better > option as constant dosing of Excel on multiple tanks can get expensive. > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> blogspot.com>> blogspot.com > (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right > side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com > [mailto:AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > yahoogroups.com] > On > Behalf Of Amber Berglund > Sent: Wednesday, June 10, 2009 12:18 AM > To: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] One algae after the next... > > The loaches are in the tank with black beard algae, and the 55 gallon > doesn't have much surface tension it has a rena filstar xp 4 on it. The > duckweed is still alive it's just getting attached to the hair algae > and the > parts that get attached die off. It's a battle of the plants and algae > in my > tanks ;) The 55 gallon only grows "regular" green algae and the black > beard > algae, I have read on a few sites that flourish excel is used to help > combat > algae issues as it will help the plants grow better and it also has an > ingredient in it that harms the algae (I forget what it's called off > the top > of my head). I was giving it a shot in the 55 gallon to see if it helps > against the hair algae, if it helps I may try it on the 125 gallon but > that's a lot of flourish to be dosing with before trying it in a smaller > quantity ;) > > I will look at getting a phosphate test kit to see what my phosphates are > at. > > Amber > > Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > > > > > > I think I told you before that duckweed doesn't like a lot of surface > > agitation and will not reproduce well in those tanks. It grows THICK > > in my Cherry shrimp tank and I regularly put some into my goldfish > > tank for them to munch on but the duckweed will not proliferate in > > that tank due to the surface agitation and it being a snack to the > goldfish. > > > > See my other reply in the Golden Nesaea thread, about your algae issues. > > > > I thought the Hillstream Loaches were supposed to be good algae > > eaters? Or is this not in their tank? > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> blogspot.com>> blogspot.com > > > <http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> blogspot.com>> blogspot.com> (Links to > any articles referenced in > > above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels > > and also under Archives by Year, Month) > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > yahoogroups.com > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > [mailto:AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > yahoogroups.com > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On Behalf Of Amber Berglund > > Sent: Tuesday, June 09, 2009 4:08 PM > > To: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > Subject: [AquaticLife] One algae after the next... > > > > Okay so all the fish are healthy in the 55 gallon and I haven't added > > any new plants for a few weeks at least, maybe more. I glued some of > > the java moss to rocks though instead of waiting for it to fully > > attach to my drift wood pieces. My duck weed is starting to die off > > and the hair algae is going crazy. I'm just thankful that I can see > > the fish though > > ;) It's not suspended in the water so I can deal with it, LOL. I'm > > wondering how long it is going to take for the tank to even itself out > > and the algae to start dieing off. I've had this hair algae for > > several weeks now, it's kind of pretty to watch wave in the water > > flow, but it's invading my plants > > ;) . Should I try adding more plants or wait it out some more? There > > are 8 potted plants in the tank and java moss on several rocks and the > > driftwood pieces and duckweed floating on top, I'm wondering if the > > hair algae is using up the nutrients that the duckweed normally does > > and that's why it's starting to die off? > > > > I got a lily for my 125 gallon tank a few weeks ago and it's doing > > great, it's a dwarf lily so it wont invade the tank ;). It already has > > a leaf floating on top and is working on 2 more (they are just shoots > > with a new leaf on the tip right now). Do all lily's bloom or only > > some varieties? I'm not sure what kind specifically it is as my LFS is > > awful about naming the plants and this last time they had pond plants > > mixed in with their normal aquatic plants and that's how I got the > > lily. I've read that lily's are very good nutrient eaters, is this > > correct? Either way it LOVES my walstad tank > > ;) LOL. I'm thinking that the 125 gallon tank has finally evened out > > and the black beard algae is no longer taking over everything so the > > plants must be starting to keep up with the nutrients I would assume > > ;). I've been slowly adding plants to the tank over the last few > > months though, I think I've added at least 7 in the last 3 months and > > all of them are doing good. > > Unfortunately my awful LFS sold me a non-aquatic plant *sigh*, I > > looked it up on plantgeek and it turns out it's called a pineapple > > plant and it slowly melts until it dies off, I would assume it's > > another plant that goes on the edge of a pond where the water is not > > going to submerge the plant. > > Unfortunately I can't research plants before I go their as they get in > > a shipment and all the plants are gone in the first 2 days, so you > > have to buy and run so to speak ;) LOL. The worker there will hold > > plants for me though, if she knows I'm looking for certain ones, so I > > try to tell her what kinds I'm looking for before they get their next > > plant shipment in. She held onto my dwarf baby tears for me and > > wouldn't let anyone buy them, LOL. > > It's good to have friends at the LFS ;) > > > > Amber > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 40811	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 6/10/2009
Subject: Re: hi group need some advice on a 48' light fixture

You should be able to place the fixture on some blocks to get it off the top of the tank. Whether the lights in the fixture, I am taking it there is more than one, depends on what kind of light they are. If one or more than one is an actinic lamp, then you would need to change them out. If they are white lights, then you should be OK, but if you are trying to grow plants, then, I'd probably change them out for fresh lamps, to give your plants the benefit of fresh bulbs, since the output of the lamps will decrease as they age. \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of greychildren Sent: Wednesday, June 10, 2009 7:56 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] hi group need some advice on a 48' light fixture Hi i just finish my new 55g set up but I'm having some issue with the 48ich all glass aquarium light fixture. it sits on the versa tops i think its not a good idea sense water splashes from my cascade filters on the tank. I been looking for the company that made the light fixture but there not around. I needed to set up the light fixture like they have on the new ones that have legs making it hand above the tank. is there another alternative besides buying another light strip fixture? Also this light were used for a saltwater reef tank are they good for freshwater setup?

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 40812	From: biG poppa	Date: 6/10/2009
Subject: Re: hi group need some advice on a 48' light fixture

what kind of blocks steve wooden? --- On Wed, 6/10/09, Steve Szabo <steve@...> wrote: From: Steve Szabo <steve@...> Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] hi group need some advice on a 48' light fixture To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Date: Wednesday, June 10, 2009, 9:30 PM You should be able to place the fixture on some blocks to get it off the top of the tank. Whether the lights in the fixture, I am taking it there is more than one, depends on what kind of light they are. If one or more than one is an actinic lamp, then you would need to change them out. If they are white lights, then you should be OK, but if you are trying to grow plants, then, I'd probably change them out for fresh lamps, to give your plants the benefit of fresh bulbs, since the output of the lamps will decrease as they age. \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com [mailto:AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com] On Behalf Of greychildren Sent: Wednesday, June 10, 2009 7:56 PM To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com Subject: [AquaticLife] hi group need some advice on a 48' light fixture Hi i just finish my new 55g set up but I'm having some issue with the 48ich all glass aquarium light fixture. it sits on the versa tops i think its not a good idea sense water splashes from my cascade filters on the tank. I been looking for the company that made the light fixture but there not around. I needed to set up the light fixture like they have on the new ones that have legs making it hand above the tank. is there another alternative besides buying another light strip fixture? Also this light were used for a saltwater reef tank are they good for freshwater setup? [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 40813	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 6/10/2009
Subject: Re: Introduction: Hi my name is Tawny, I am new to the group

Tawny, Welcome to the group. We have a few people here from Louisiana, and they can give you more specific advice for your area. Almost any fish can be kept in a pond, but, obviously, there are only some that will really show off in the pond. You'll be looking at the fish from the top, so if you decide to go with anything but koi, which have been bred for keeping in ponds, you'll need to look at the fish as if they were in a pond, from above, to determine if they would be good for you. You mentioned that you will be able to get some koi from a fellow freecycler. If you go this route, then there really is not many other fish that can be kept with them. Another consideration is that if you wish to plant the pond, it will be difficult with koi, which really love a fresh vegetable aspect being added to their diet. As far as I am concerned, you do not have a winter down there. At least not like the more northern areas of the country do. If the temperature of the water will be below 55 degrees for longish periods of time during the "winter", then you may need to consider what to do with the fish, especially if the water will become covered with ice. Certain varieties of goldfish are good alternatives to koi. Look at the shubunkin varieties (there are three now, varying mostly in body shape and tail style). Ray may be able to help you more here as he did work for one of the well known pond suppliers in its day. My last pond was about 2500 gallons, and I kept paradise fish (absolutely gorgeous coming out of the pond, and very interesting behaviors were observed, a few goldfish that survived the paradise fish, and green swordtails. \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of gardengoddesses2 Sent: Wednesday, June 10, 2009 7:06 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Introduction: Hi my name is Tawny, I am new to the group Hi Everyone, Thanks for letting me join your group. My name is Tawny and I live on 4 acres in Mandeville Louisiana. This is 45 minutes away from New Orleans. My husband is working on putting a pond in and I just wanted to know if anyone had any suggestions on what types of fish and plants do best in ponds. Any advice at all will be greatly appreciated. I have a friend from freecycle that is going to give me some Butterfly Koi. Do Koi get along with other fish? I would like to have a variety of fish in the pond. Thanks, Tawny

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 40814	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 6/10/2009
Subject: Re: hi group need some advice on a 48' light fixture

I would immediately think wood, but I have not seen the lighting unit, so I cannot really say what material would be the most acceptable to myself, never mind what you may find to be acceptable. \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of biG poppa Sent: Wednesday, June 10, 2009 9:48 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] hi group need some advice on a 48' light fixture what kind of blocks steve wooden? --- On Wed, 6/10/09, Steve Szabo <steve@...> wrote: From: Steve Szabo <steve@...> Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] hi group need some advice on a 48' light fixture To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Date: Wednesday, June 10, 2009, 9:30 PM You should be able to place the fixture on some blocks to get it off the top of the tank. Whether the lights in the fixture, I am taking it there is more than one, depends on what kind of light they are. If one or more than one is an actinic lamp, then you would need to change them out. If they are white lights, then you should be OK, but if you are trying to grow plants, then, I'd probably change them out for fresh lamps, to give your plants the benefit of fresh bulbs, since the output of the lamps will decrease as they age. \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com [mailto:AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com] On Behalf Of greychildren Sent: Wednesday, June 10, 2009 7:56 PM To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com Subject: [AquaticLife] hi group need some advice on a 48' light fixture Hi i just finish my new 55g set up but I'm having some issue with the 48ich all glass aquarium light fixture. it sits on the versa tops i think its not a good idea sense water splashes from my cascade filters on the tank. I been looking for the company that made the light fixture but there not around. I needed to set up the light fixture like they have on the new ones that have legs making it hand above the tank. is there another alternative besides buying another light strip fixture? Also this light were used for a saltwater reef tank are they good for freshwater setup?

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 40815	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 6/10/2009
Subject: Re: Introduction: Hi my name is Tawny, I am new to the group

Howdy neighbor and welcome to the group. I live down in Metairie, or for simplicity out here in the group, most folks know I'm from N'Awlins! ;-) We also have a few other neighbors nearby who are members of the group. Yes, Koi get along with other fish (they are very peaceful and social) but it's not advised to mix goldfish and Koi as they can and will interbreed and the offspring are usually NOT very pretty... usually resorting back to carp-looking greenish-grayish colored fish. Further, Koi get REALLY BIG, over 30" after 10 years, you NEED a BIG pond for them with at least 500G per Koi and also shoot for at least 75G to 100G per goldfish since they grow to over 12" long. Koi also prefer VERY GOOD water quality and aren't usually as forgiving with water quality issues compared to goldfish. What other kind of fish were you thinking about? Since hubby is still working on the pond, go as BIG as you can based on the above water volume needs for the fish and the number of fish you would like to keep... and also, if you are going to keep Koi, the pond should have a BIG part of it at least 3' deep and deeper would be even better for the Koi. I have a couple of Pond articles on my blog, one which has links to several free e-Books on building a pond so check them out. They have some very good information in them, including pictures of the process. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of gardengoddesses2 Sent: Wednesday, June 10, 2009 6:06 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Introduction: Hi my name is Tawny, I am new to the group Hi Everyone, Thanks for letting me join your group. My name is Tawny and I live on 4 acres in Mandeville Louisiana. This is 45 minutes away from New Orleans. My husband is working on putting a pond in and I just wanted to know if anyone had any suggestions on what types of fish and plants do best in ponds. Any advice at all will be greatly appreciated. I have a friend from freecycle that is going to give me some Butterfly Koi. Do Koi get along with other fish? I would like to have a variety of fish in the pond. Thanks, Tawny

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 40816	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 6/10/2009
Subject: Re: hi group need some advice on a 48' light fixture

Where is the water splashing? I get splashing (and evaporation) but it's going onto the water side of the plexiglass and then drips back into tank. If the water is splashing onto the top side of the plexiglass or plastic versa-top, is there something you can do to raise the water level in the tank or something to keep the water from splashing onto the top of the versa-top? Is this water coming off the Bio-Wheels or from the waterfall going into the water and splashing back up? If the latter, then raising the water level in the tank will reduce that dramatically. I personally do not like the raised light strips, as MUCH of the light shines out into the room, rather than being directed into the tank. Saltwater tanks (and reef tanks) often have to use this as they often are using HIGH intensity lighting that is very HOT so they have to have the air space between the water and the lighting to give the heat a way of venting off into the room rather than heating up the water. Many SW fish keepers have to resort to using chillers on their tanks to keep the water from getting too warm. Take some pics of your current set up, including close ups of where/how the water is splashing and maybe we can come up with some better ideas or a fix. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of greychildren Sent: Wednesday, June 10, 2009 6:56 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] hi group need some advice on a 48' light fixture Hi i just finish my new 55g set up but I'm having some issue with the 48ich all glass aquarium light fixture. it sits on the versa tops i think its not a good idea sense water splashes from my cascade filters on the tank. I been looking for the company that made the light fixture but there not around. I needed to set up the light fixture like they have on the new ones that have legs making it hand above the tank. is there another alternative besides buying another light strip fixture? Also this light were used for a saltwater reef tank are they good for freshwater setup?

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 40817	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 6/10/2009
Subject: Re: Introduction: Hi my name is Tawny, I am new to the group

What do you mean, "you do not have a winter down there"? Heck, it got down below 32F three times last winter, yes only for a few hours at a time, in the middle of the night, but we dang near froze our rear ends off. ;-) Of course, Tawny lives on what we call the "North Shore" down here, which is on the north side of Lake Pontchartrain where the main City Of N'Awlins is on the "South Shore". It gets below freezing a lot more often up there but still, if the pond is large enough and in-ground, I doubt it would ever freeze over. The last time we had a winter like that was in 1989... which I remember well since I got married during that severe freeze... three days straight (72 hours) of below freezing temps in N'Awlins. My mom always said it would be a cold day in hell when I got married. LOL Of course, the water temps would likely dip below the 55F range so the fish will have to be properly conditioned for over-wintering and the pond will have to be properly cleaned/maintained in preparation for over-wintering but down here on the "South Shore", other than cleaning the ponds and cutting back on and then stopping the feeding once the water temps cooled down enough, I never lost a fish during the over-wintering process and my ponds were all in the mini-pond size of 1,000G or less. I never had Koi though... just goldfish. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Steve Szabo Sent: Wednesday, June 10, 2009 9:00 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Introduction: Hi my name is Tawny, I am new to the group Tawny, Welcome to the group. We have a few people here from Louisiana, and they can give you more specific advice for your area. Almost any fish can be kept in a pond, but, obviously, there are only some that will really show off in the pond. You'll be looking at the fish from the top, so if you decide to go with anything but koi, which have been bred for keeping in ponds, you'll need to look at the fish as if they were in a pond, from above, to determine if they would be good for you. You mentioned that you will be able to get some koi from a fellow freecycler. If you go this route, then there really is not many other fish that can be kept with them. Another consideration is that if you wish to plant the pond, it will be difficult with koi, which really love a fresh vegetable aspect being added to their diet. As far as I am concerned, you do not have a winter down there. At least not like the more northern areas of the country do. If the temperature of the water will be below 55 degrees for longish periods of time during the "winter", then you may need to consider what to do with the fish, especially if the water will become covered with ice. Certain varieties of goldfish are good alternatives to koi. Look at the shubunkin varieties (there are three now, varying mostly in body shape and tail style). Ray may be able to help you more here as he did work for one of the well known pond suppliers in its day. My last pond was about 2500 gallons, and I kept paradise fish (absolutely gorgeous coming out of the pond, and very interesting behaviors were observed, a few goldfish that survived the paradise fish, and green swordtails. \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of gardengoddesses2 Sent: Wednesday, June 10, 2009 7:06 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Introduction: Hi my name is Tawny, I am new to the group Hi Everyone, Thanks for letting me join your group. My name is Tawny and I live on 4 acres in Mandeville Louisiana. This is 45 minutes away from New Orleans. My husband is working on putting a pond in and I just wanted to know if anyone had any suggestions on what types of fish and plants do best in ponds. Any advice at all will be greatly appreciated. I have a friend from freecycle that is going to give me some Butterfly Koi. Do Koi get along with other fish? I would like to have a variety of fish in the pond. Thanks, Tawny

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 40818	From: Dora Smith	Date: 6/11/2009
Subject: Re: Dora's Betta Questions (was: HELP! I think I have White Spot)

Thanks for posting the link, Lenny! I will follow your advice. I feed only fresh frozen bloodworms ot my betta, unless you can think of something else to feed them. I have heard taht they like Hikari pellets - I suppose rehydrated, and how many of them? Yours, Dora- -- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@...> wrote: > > Dora, > > You know better than to hijack a thread. LOL > > Yes, for labyrinth fish, I've written many times that you should not use

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 40819	From: Dora Smith	Date: 6/11/2009
Subject: Re: sick orange betta is still sick

Actually I read every post on that subject that I got, but I think that sometimes I don't get some of them. Yours, Dora Smith Austin, TX tiggernut24@... ----- Original Message ----- From: "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@...> To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Wednesday, June 10, 2009 1:24 AM Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] sick orange betta is still sick Dora, You should check your thread. I replied and possibly others. Of course, you might have trouble finding your thread since

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 40820	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 6/11/2009
Subject: Re: Dora's Betta Questions (was: HELP! I think I have White Spot)

From: http://www.cbsbettas.org/petbetta.html You can feed your Betta a few pellets or a very small pinch of flake food daily (follow the directions on the food container.) If you want to make your Betta really happy, you can feed him a variety of live foods http://www.cbsbettas.org/livefood.html including frozen brine shrimp, and even mosquito larvae or fruit flies. Foods prepared for Bettas, like the pelleted foods, are made to float. You will notice that your Bettas mouth is positioned for eating food from the surface. They can and will pick food up from the floor of the tank, but prefer to eat from the surface. See below my sig for LONG SNIP from: http://www.bettatalk.com/food.htm Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) Food variety Mosquito larva. This my friend is the real true betta food. Bettas eat tones of them in the rice paddies of Thailand, so it is a great choice of food. One slight tiny problem though: finding the damn things. I don't have mosquito larva where I live (but I guess Florida resident might have better luck) (did I just say "luck" ???). I hate mosquitoes, so I don't mind not finding their larvae floating about in my water. In short, unless you have them pesky little insects around, you won't be able to get larva to your bettas. Be careful also to not harvest from dirty water (where bacteria might be flourishing) so you don't bring a diseases back into your tank. Live brine shrimp. If you have a lot of money, go for it. You can buy them at your local fish store, and your bettas will love you like, forever. To use as a treat only and as I said earlier, in moderation. Live worms. (I strongly advise against using this type of food). Brown worms, blood worms, any worms your fish store will sell you, any cultures that will produce live worms, in short bettas LOVE worms. And in this case, you should be able to easily find live worms at your local fish store. I do NOT recommend picking worms from gardens, etc.. As they may have been subjected to pesticides etc. When you feed live worms to your betta, FIRST CLEAN THE WORMS THOROUGHLY. Worms can carry tons of bacteria and parasites. I used to feed live brown worms to my bettas, and brown worms are especially yucky. Although my bettas loved eating them, I soon developed a heavy love/hate relation with the wormies: Invariably, after feeding live food for a period of time, a bacterial outbreak would sweep through my fishroom and the rate of dropsy would climb. No live food, almost never any dropsy. So I finally decided to give them up completely :((. If you like playing with fire, you can feed live worms. To wash live worms, dump them into a brine shrimp net and let COLD water run on them, rinsing them, for a good one minute. Brown worms need to be stored in a container, with only enough water to cover their bodies (no more) and placed in your refrigerator. You should open the container daily and rinse the worms, whether you intend to use them or not. If you cannot do all the above, then don't bother with live brown worms, because they will be so unsanitary they will IMMEDIATELY give your fish diseases. Instead go for "once live but now dead" food (see below). Do not feed only live worms to your bettas, it is too rich and needs to be balanced with other foods. This is however a great food to condition your bettas for breeding. Too bad it is so contaminated... (sigh...). You might have luck with cultures that you can grow yourself, hence keeping them clean and free of bacteria. I have had the BEST of luck with my microworms cultures, but only the small fry under 40 days of age will eat them :(((. Larger worms are hard to produce in large enough quantities and usually demands a larger set-up (eats lots of space) and some also smell horrible (on a BIG scale!). Frozen live food. This is one of the "once live but now dead" food that bettas will eat. It is more expensive, but cleaner and less yucky to manipulate then live food. Freeze it and it will keep for a long time (unlike live food). Unfreeze small portion and feed them to your bettas. One warning though, I believe there is a correlation between frozen foods and parasites, especially Ich. Therefore, if you are feeding frozen food, remember to add AQUARISOL to your water to prevent Ich. Also if anyone tells you that freezing the worms kills all the germs, you have my permission to slap them around a little bit, maybe it will bring them back to their senses, and to reality. LOL. Although all bacteria is not killed by the freezing process, it does get rid of most, making frozen food my favorite betta food and now a day the only food I allow in my fishroom. Freeze dried live food. This is another one of the "once live but now dead" food that bettas will eat. I highly recommend it, because unlike the above live foods, it is sterile and will not bring any diseases or parasites into your tanks. You will mainly find two types: Freeze dried bloodworms and freeze dried brine shrimp. Bettas are especially fund of the later, while they sometimes eat the first reluctantly. I feed both to my babies. If you have many bettas, you might consider buying freeze dried food in bulk, it is otherwise pretty expensive. If you are prone to allergies, experiment with this food, I have found that myself and other breeders have a reaction to it (sneezing, temporary asthma, etc.). I use it anyways (aaAAAAA tchA!) Be careful to not feed any freeze dried food that is hard (over cooked if I may say) it will cause internal damage to your bettas. Any little hard piece should be tossed pronto. Betta bites (and other betta pellets). There are a few different brands of betta food out there, food that were specifically designed for bettas. Most breeders don't bother with them, because they are expensive and too generic. We prefer to have more control over the protein intake of our fish. But if you are just keeping a few bettas as pets, this is not a bad option, as long as you alternate with something else every now and then. Betta pellets are easy, just throw a few in your jar and you are done :). Bettas might not want to eat pellets if they have had a chance to taste yummy foods such as brine shrimp ;) though!! Foods that make bettas go "POUAH!!!!" Flakes. This is good for your generic tropical fish, but not for our royal highnesses :)). Bettas will despise you if you have the audacity to present them with flakes. Oh, you don't believe me huh? TRY IT!! Check out the 'look' your betta will give you. He will surely never look at you the same again :))). Save face, don't ruin your relationship with your betta, stay away from flake food. Some breeders do raise their bettas on flake and only these bettas might then accept to eat flakes throughout their adulthood. Pellets. Unless starved past sanity, a betta will not eat pellets either. Especially if a live worm has entered, at some point of time, his mouth cavity. Forget it. You are wasting your time, he won't go for it. Bettas have sensitive taste buds :), they know good food, they are gourmets. Again, if a betta has been raised on pellets then it will eat them. make sure to use only small size pellets, Hikari is probably what breeders use most. I personally have always had the hardest time getting my bettas to eat them :((. Cubes. Yeah, you know the cubes made of compressed freeze dried worms. My bettas never wanted to eat them. I tried. Tried. Tried some more. And they were like "pfffffft, is she out of her mind?????". Finally, they won. I gave up. -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Dora Smith Sent: Thursday, June 11, 2009 2:03 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Dora's Betta Questions (was: HELP! I think I have White Spot) Thanks for posting the link, Lenny! I will follow your advice. I feed only fresh frozen bloodworms ot my betta, unless you can think of something else to feed them. I have heard taht they like Hikari pellets - I suppose rehydrated, and how many of them? Yours, Dora- -- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@...> wrote: > > Dora, > > You know better than to hijack a thread. LOL > > Yes, for labyrinth fish, I've written many times that you should not > use

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 40821	From: Tawny Morrow	Date: 6/11/2009
Subject: Re: Introduction: Hi my name is Tawny, I am new to the group

Hi Lenny, Thanks for the great information. Someone on freecycle has butterfly Koi that she is going to give me when my pond is done.  I will probally just have Koi in the pond. Thanks for letting me know about the goldfish and Koi because I was going to get goldfish. Please check out my yahoo group GardenGoddesses. A friend from Lakeview and I just started it. Oh well, gotta go, my niece is in the hospital having her baby and I am on my way to there. Thanks again. Talk to ya later.   TAWNY ________________________________ From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@...> To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Wednesday, June 10, 2009 11:21:07 PM Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Introduction: Hi my name is Tawny, I am new to the group Howdy neighbor and welcome to the group. I live down in Metairie, or for simplicity out here in the group, most folks know I'm from N'Awlins! ;-) We also have a few other neighbors nearby who are members of the group. Yes, Koi get along with other fish (they are very peaceful and social) but it's not advised to mix goldfish and Koi as they can and will interbreed and the offspring are usually NOT very pretty... usually resorting back to carp-looking greenish-grayish colored fish. Further, Koi get REALLY BIG, over 30" after 10 years, you NEED a BIG pond for them with at least 500G per Koi and also shoot for at least 75G to 100G per goldfish since they grow to over 12" long. Koi also prefer VERY GOOD water quality and aren't usually as forgiving with water quality issues compared to goldfish. What other kind of fish were you thinking about? Since hubby is still working on the pond, go as BIG as you can based on the above water volume needs for the fish and the number of fish you would like to keep... and also, if you are going to keep Koi, the pond should have a BIG part of it at least 3' deep and deeper would be even better for the Koi. I have a couple of Pond articles on my blog, one which has links to several free e-Books on building a pond so check them out. They have some very good information in them, including pictures of the process. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com [mailto:AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com] On Behalf Of gardengoddesses2 Sent: Wednesday, June 10, 2009 6:06 PM To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com Subject: [AquaticLife] Introduction: Hi my name is Tawny, I am new to the group Hi Everyone, Thanks for letting me join your group. My name is Tawny and I live on 4 acres in Mandeville Louisiana. This is 45 minutes away from New Orleans. My husband is working on putting a pond in and I just wanted to know if anyone had any suggestions on what types of fish and plants do best in ponds. Any advice at all will be greatly appreciated. I have a friend from freecycle that is going to give me some Butterfly Koi. Do Koi get along with other fish? I would like to have a variety of fish in the pond. Thanks, Tawny [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 40822	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 6/11/2009
Subject: Re: One algae after the next...

Thanks for the tip, I will keep that in mind if the flourish excel doesn't do anything for the 55 gallon, I think I'm going to try it out on the ornaments from the 125 gallon though, I'm tired of all the BB algae in the tank... although it's probably nice and soft to the fish ;) Amber Donna Ransome wrote: > > > I keep a bucket of hydrogen peroxide solution near tank when doing PWC. > Rocks come out and go in bucket during PWC. Hydrogen peroxide (tiny > amount) > is drizzled on my in tank background. Replace and refill as usual. This is > done weekly until under control and then as required. The stuff starts > shedding the next day. > > _____ > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On > Behalf Of Amber Berglund > Sent: Wednesday, June 10, 2009 11:08 AM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] One algae after the next... > > I tried that trick on the black beard algae and I gave up after a week > or so as it wasn't doing anything for it. I suppose I could take all the > ornaments out that have the BB algae growing on it and dunk it in > hydrogen peroxide and see if it kills it then. I have a lot of it > growing on plants too, but I did haircuts last night so hopefully I will > see new growth soon. > > Amber > > Donna Ransome wrote: > > > > > > Try hydrogen peroxide, it worked for me. My hair algae does not grow > > on the > > glass though, when I had that bright green stuff on the glass I > > thought that > > was beard algae. Anyway I have brush and hair and hydrogen peroxide > > gets it > > off surfaces (but not plants). For that I had success with Vallisneria > > until my snails killed it. > > > > I've gotten the algae under control on the various surfaces, and I just > > replanted the Vallisneria to outcompete it so it will leave my slower > > growing plants alone. > > > > My bristlenose plecos and zebra nerite snails also seem to do a pretty > > good > > job on the glass now. I just added the nerites a week or so ago. > > > > _____ > > > > From: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > yahoogroups.com > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > [mailto:AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > yahoogroups.com > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On > > Behalf Of Lenny V. aka GoldLenny > > Sent: Wednesday, June 10, 2009 2:00 AM > > To: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] One algae after the next... > > > > Yes, THE FAQ's on the Seachem site actually addresses using/overdosing > > Excel > > to combat algae and many fish keepers have reported success with it. > BUT.. > > if you have a phosphate problem that can be solved, that would be the > > better > > option as constant dosing of Excel on multiple tanks can get expensive. > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny. > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>> > blogspot.com > > <http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>> blogspot.com>> > blogspot.com > > (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right > > side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, > Month) > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > yahoogroups.com > > [mailto:AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > yahoogroups.com] > > On > > Behalf Of Amber Berglund > > Sent: Wednesday, June 10, 2009 12:18 AM > > To: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] One algae after the next... > > > > The loaches are in the tank with black beard algae, and the 55 gallon > > doesn't have much surface tension it has a rena filstar xp 4 on it. The > > duckweed is still alive it's just getting attached to the hair algae > > and the > > parts that get attached die off. It's a battle of the plants and algae > > in my > > tanks ;) The 55 gallon only grows "regular" green algae and the black > > beard > > algae, I have read on a few sites that flourish excel is used to help > > combat > > algae issues as it will help the plants grow better and it also has an > > ingredient in it that harms the algae (I forget what it's called off > > the top > > of my head). I was giving it a shot in the 55 gallon to see if it helps > > against the hair algae, if it helps I may try it on the 125 gallon but > > that's a lot of flourish to be dosing with before trying it in a smaller > > quantity ;) > > > > I will look at getting a phosphate test kit to see what my > phosphates are > > at. > > > > Amber > > > > Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > > > > > > > > > I think I told you before that duckweed doesn't like a lot of surface > > > agitation and will not reproduce well in those tanks. It grows THICK > > > in my Cherry shrimp tank and I regularly put some into my goldfish > > > tank for them to munch on but the duckweed will not proliferate in > > > that tank due to the surface agitation and it being a snack to the > > goldfish. > > > > > > See my other reply in the Golden Nesaea thread, about your algae > issues. > > > > > > I thought the Hillstream Loaches were supposed to be good algae > > > eaters? Or is this not in their tank? > > > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny. > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>> > blogspot.com > > <http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>> blogspot.com>> > blogspot.com > > > > > <http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny. > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>> > blogspot.com > > <http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>> blogspot.com>> > blogspot.com> (Links to > > any articles referenced in > > > above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels > > > and also under Archives by Year, Month) > > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > From: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > yahoogroups.com > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > [mailto:AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > yahoogroups.com > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On Behalf Of Amber Berglund > > > Sent: Tuesday, June 09, 2009 4:08 PM > > > To: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > yahoogroups.com > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > Subject: [AquaticLife] One algae after the next... > > > > > > Okay so all the fish are healthy in the 55 gallon and I haven't added > > > any new plants for a few weeks at least, maybe more. I glued some of > > > the java moss to rocks though instead of waiting for it to fully > > > attach to my drift wood pieces. My duck weed is starting to die off > > > and the hair algae is going crazy. I'm just thankful that I can see > > > the fish though > > > ;) It's not suspended in the water so I can deal with it, LOL. I'm > > > wondering how long it is going to take for the tank to even itself out > > > and the algae to start dieing off. I've had this hair algae for > > > several weeks now, it's kind of pretty to watch wave in the water > > > flow, but it's invading my plants > > > ;) . Should I try adding more plants or wait it out some more? There > > > are 8 potted plants in the tank and java moss on several rocks and the > > > driftwood pieces and duckweed floating on top, I'm wondering if the > > > hair algae is using up the nutrients that the duckweed normally does > > > and that's why it's starting to die off? > > > > > > I got a lily for my 125 gallon tank a few weeks ago and it's doing > > > great, it's a dwarf lily so it wont invade the tank ;). It already has > > > a leaf floating on top and is working on 2 more (they are just shoots > > > with a new leaf on the tip right now). Do all lily's bloom or only > > > some varieties? I'm not sure what kind specifically it is as my LFS is > > > awful about naming the plants and this last time they had pond plants > > > mixed in with their normal aquatic plants and that's how I got the > > > lily. I've read that lily's are very good nutrient eaters, is this > > > correct? Either way it LOVES my walstad tank > > > ;) LOL. I'm thinking that the 125 gallon tank has finally evened out > > > and the black beard algae is no longer taking over everything so the > > > plants must be starting to keep up with the nutrients I would assume > > > ;). I've been slowly adding plants to the tank over the last few > > > months though, I think I've added at least 7 in the last 3 months and > > > all of them are doing good. > > > Unfortunately my awful LFS sold me a non-aquatic plant *sigh*, I > > > looked it up on plantgeek and it turns out it's called a pineapple > > > plant and it slowly melts until it dies off, I would assume it's > > > another plant that goes on the edge of a pond where the water is not > > > going to submerge the plant. > > > Unfortunately I can't research plants before I go their as they get in > > > a shipment and all the plants are gone in the first 2 days, so you > > > have to buy and run so to speak ;) LOL. The worker there will hold > > > plants for me though, if she knows I'm looking for certain ones, so I > > > try to tell her what kinds I'm looking for before they get their next > > > plant shipment in. She held onto my dwarf baby tears for me and > > > wouldn't let anyone buy them, LOL. > > > It's good to have friends at the LFS ;) > > > > > > Amber > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 40823	From: Jimmy McHaney	Date: 6/11/2009
Subject: Re: Introduction: Hi my name is Tawny, I am new to the group

Hi Tawny, My name is Jimmy and I live in Husser, LA. Welcome to the group. Good luck with your pond. My wife and I go into Mandeville 4 or 5 times a week. We play tennis and workout at Franco's there. My background is mainly in indoor aquariums but a lot of it is simular. I have been a member of this group for almost two years and have found it very helpful. If I can help let me know. Sent from my iPod Jimmy On Jun 11, 2009, at 6:32 AM, Tawny Morrow <gardengoddesses2@...> wrote: Hi Lenny, Thanks for the great information. Someone on freecycle has butterfly Koi that she is going to give me when my pond is done. I will probally just have Koi in the pond. Thanks for letting me know about the goldfish and Koi because I was going to get goldfish. Please check out my yahoo group GardenGoddesses. A friend from Lakeview and I just started it. Oh well, gotta go, my niece is in the hospital having her baby and I am on my way to there. Thanks again. Talk to ya later. TAWNY ________________________________ From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@...> To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Wednesday, June 10, 2009 11:21:07 PM Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Introduction: Hi my name is Tawny, I am new to the group Howdy neighbor and welcome to the group. I live down in Metairie, or for simplicity out here in the group, most folks know I'm from N'Awlins! ;-) We also have a few other neighbors nearby who are members of the group. Yes, Koi get along with other fish (they are very peaceful and social) but it's not advised to mix goldfish and Koi as they can and will interbreed and the offspring are usually NOT very pretty... usually resorting back to carp-looking greenish-grayish colored fish. Further, Koi get REALLY BIG, over 30" after 10 years, you NEED a BIG pond for them with at least 500G per Koi and also shoot for at least 75G to 100G per goldfish since they grow to over 12" long. Koi also prefer VERY GOOD water quality and aren't usually as forgiving with water quality issues compared to goldfish. What other kind of fish were you thinking about? Since hubby is still working on the pond, go as BIG as you can based on the above water volume needs for the fish and the number of fish you would like to keep... and also, if you are going to keep Koi, the pond should have a BIG part of it at least 3' deep and deeper would be even better for the Koi.. I have a couple of Pond articles on my blog, one which has links to several free e-Books on building a pond so check them out. They have some very good information in them, including pictures of the process. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com [mailto:AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com] On Behalf Of gardengoddesses2 Sent: Wednesday, June 10, 2009 6:06 PM To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com Subject: [AquaticLife] Introduction: Hi my name is Tawny, I am new to the group Hi Everyone, Thanks for letting me join your group. My name is Tawny and I live on 4 acres in Mandeville Louisiana. This is 45 minutes away from New Orleans. My husband is working on putting a pond in and I just wanted to know if anyone had any suggestions on what types of fish and plants do best in ponds. Any advice at all will be greatly appreciated. I have a friend from freecycle that is going to give me some Butterfly Koi. Do Koi get along with other fish? I would like to have a variety of fish in the pond. Thanks, Tawny [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] 15px 0 3px 0; overflow: hidden; } #ygrp-msg p#attach-count span { color: #1E66AE; font-weight: bold; } div#ygrp-mlmsg #ygrp-msg p a span.yshortcuts { font-family: Verdana; font-size: 10px; font-weight: normal; } #ygrp-msg p a { font-family: Verdana; font-size: 10px; } #ygrp-mlmsg a { color: #1E66AE; } div.attach-table div div a { text-decoration: none; } div.attach-table { width: 400px; } --> > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 40824	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 6/11/2009
Subject: Re: Introduction: Hi my name is Tawny, I am new to the group

Many people do mix them but if you want to keep the purity/beauty of your Koi, especially Butterfly Koi, and hopefully have spawns from them in the future so you can continue the FreeCycle cycle, then it would be best to keep them separate. That, and the fact that you may need all the water volume that you will have just for the Koi. No use in adding more fish to a bioload that might already be heavily burdened by just the Koi. When you build your second pond, you can make that one a goldfish/water garden type pond. Oops.. did I just mention that you will be building a second pond in the near future? Yes, I did! Don't show this reply to hubby. LOL Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Tawny Morrow Sent: Thursday, June 11, 2009 6:32 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Introduction: Hi my name is Tawny, I am new to the group Hi Lenny, Thanks for the great information. Someone on freecycle has butterfly Koi that she is going to give me when my pond is done.  I will probally just have Koi in the pond. Thanks for letting me know about the goldfish and Koi because I was going to get goldfish. Please check out my yahoo group GardenGoddesses. A friend from Lakeview and I just started it. Oh well, gotta go, my niece is in the hospital having her baby and I am on my way to there. Thanks again. Talk to ya later.   TAWNY ________________________________ From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@...> To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Wednesday, June 10, 2009 11:21:07 PM Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Introduction: Hi my name is Tawny, I am new to the group Howdy neighbor and welcome to the group. I live down in Metairie, or for simplicity out here in the group, most folks know I'm from N'Awlins! ;-) We also have a few other neighbors nearby who are members of the group. Yes, Koi get along with other fish (they are very peaceful and social) but it's not advised to mix goldfish and Koi as they can and will interbreed and the offspring are usually NOT very pretty... usually resorting back to carp-looking greenish-grayish colored fish. Further, Koi get REALLY BIG, over 30" after 10 years, you NEED a BIG pond for them with at least 500G per Koi and also shoot for at least 75G to 100G per goldfish since they grow to over 12" long. Koi also prefer VERY GOOD water quality and aren't usually as forgiving with water quality issues compared to goldfish. What other kind of fish were you thinking about? Since hubby is still working on the pond, go as BIG as you can based on the above water volume needs for the fish and the number of fish you would like to keep... and also, if you are going to keep Koi, the pond should have a BIG part of it at least 3' deep and deeper would be even better for the Koi. I have a couple of Pond articles on my blog, one which has links to several free e-Books on building a pond so check them out. They have some very good information in them, including pictures of the process. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com [mailto:AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com] On Behalf Of gardengoddesses2 Sent: Wednesday, June 10, 2009 6:06 PM To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com Subject: [AquaticLife] Introduction: Hi my name is Tawny, I am new to the group Hi Everyone, Thanks for letting me join your group. My name is Tawny and I live on 4 acres in Mandeville Louisiana. This is 45 minutes away from New Orleans. My husband is working on putting a pond in and I just wanted to know if anyone had any suggestions on what types of fish and plants do best in ponds. Any advice at all will be greatly appreciated. I have a friend from freecycle that is going to give me some Butterfly Koi. Do Koi get along with other fish? I would like to have a variety of fish in the pond. Thanks, Tawny

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 40825	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 6/11/2009
Subject: Re: Introduction: Hi my name is Tawny, I am new to the group

You better watch out Jimmy. She did say they are still building the pond. Your offer of help my now require you to show up with shovel in hand and start digging. You can get a free workout without having to go to Franco's. ;-) Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Jimmy McHaney Sent: Thursday, June 11, 2009 10:25 AM To: aquaticlife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Introduction: Hi my name is Tawny, I am new to the group Hi Tawny, My name is Jimmy and I live in Husser, LA. Welcome to the group. Good luck with your pond. My wife and I go into Mandeville 4 or 5 times a week. We play tennis and workout at Franco's there. My background is mainly in indoor aquariums but a lot of it is simular. I have been a member of this group for almost two years and have found it very helpful. If I can help let me know. Sent from my iPod Jimmy On Jun 11, 2009, at 6:32 AM, Tawny Morrow <gardengoddesses2@...> wrote: Hi Lenny, Thanks for the great information. Someone on freecycle has butterfly Koi that she is going to give me when my pond is done. I will probally just have Koi in the pond. Thanks for letting me know about the goldfish and Koi because I was going to get goldfish. Please check out my yahoo group GardenGoddesses. A friend from Lakeview and I just started it. Oh well, gotta go, my niece is in the hospital having her baby and I am on my way to there. Thanks again. Talk to ya later. TAWNY ________________________________ From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@...> To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Wednesday, June 10, 2009 11:21:07 PM Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Introduction: Hi my name is Tawny, I am new to the group Howdy neighbor and welcome to the group. I live down in Metairie, or for simplicity out here in the group, most folks know I'm from N'Awlins! ;-) We also have a few other neighbors nearby who are members of the group. Yes, Koi get along with other fish (they are very peaceful and social) but it's not advised to mix goldfish and Koi as they can and will interbreed and the offspring are usually NOT very pretty... usually resorting back to carp-looking greenish-grayish colored fish. Further, Koi get REALLY BIG, over 30" after 10 years, you NEED a BIG pond for them with at least 500G per Koi and also shoot for at least 75G to 100G per goldfish since they grow to over 12" long. Koi also prefer VERY GOOD water quality and aren't usually as forgiving with water quality issues compared to goldfish. What other kind of fish were you thinking about? Since hubby is still working on the pond, go as BIG as you can based on the above water volume needs for the fish and the number of fish you would like to keep... and also, if you are going to keep Koi, the pond should have a BIG part of it at least 3' deep and deeper would be even better for the Koi.. I have a couple of Pond articles on my blog, one which has links to several free e-Books on building a pond so check them out. They have some very good information in them, including pictures of the process. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com [mailto:AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com] On Behalf Of gardengoddesses2 Sent: Wednesday, June 10, 2009 6:06 PM To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com Subject: [AquaticLife] Introduction: Hi my name is Tawny, I am new to the group Hi Everyone, Thanks for letting me join your group. My name is Tawny and I live on 4 acres in Mandeville Louisiana. This is 45 minutes away from New Orleans. My husband is working on putting a pond in and I just wanted to know if anyone had any suggestions on what types of fish and plants do best in ponds. Any advice at all will be greatly appreciated. I have a friend from freecycle that is going to give me some Butterfly Koi. Do Koi get along with other fish? I would like to have a variety of fish in the pond. Thanks, Tawny

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 40826	From: Jimmy McHaney	Date: 6/11/2009
Subject: Re: Introduction: Hi my name is Tawny, I am new to the group

Yea I thought about that later LOL. I promise that is not my intention. Is it to late to withdraw the statement about helping with the pond. Sent from my iPod Jimmy On Jun 11, 2009, at 11:14 AM, "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@...> wrote: You better watch out Jimmy. She did say they are still building the pond. Your offer of help my now require you to show up with shovel in hand and start digging. You can get a free workout without having to go to Franco's. ;-) Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Jimmy McHaney Sent: Thursday, June 11, 2009 10:25 AM To: aquaticlife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Introduction: Hi my name is Tawny, I am new to the group Hi Tawny, My name is Jimmy and I live in Husser, LA. Welcome to the group. Good luck with your pond. My wife and I go into Mandeville 4 or 5 times a week. We play tennis and workout at Franco's there. My background is mainly in indoor aquariums but a lot of it is simular. I have been a member of this group for almost two years and have found it very helpful. If I can help let me know. Sent from my iPod Jimmy On Jun 11, 2009, at 6:32 AM, Tawny Morrow <gardengoddesses2@...> wrote: Hi Lenny, Thanks for the great information. Someone on freecycle has butterfly Koi that she is going to give me when my pond is done. I will probally just have Koi in the pond. Thanks for letting me know about the goldfish and Koi because I was going to get goldfish. Please check out my yahoo group GardenGoddesses.. A friend from Lakeview and I just started it. Oh well, gotta go, my niece is in the hospital having her baby and I am on my way to there. Thanks again. Talk to ya later. TAWNY ________________________________ From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@...> To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Wednesday, June 10, 2009 11:21:07 PM Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Introduction: Hi my name is Tawny, I am new to the group Howdy neighbor and welcome to the group. I live down in Metairie, or for simplicity out here in the group, most folks know I'm from N'Awlins! ;-) We also have a few other neighbors nearby who are members of the group. Yes, Koi get along with other fish (they are very peaceful and social) but it's not advised to mix goldfish and Koi as they can and will interbreed and the offspring are usually NOT very pretty... usually resorting back to carp-looking greenish-grayish colored fish. Further, Koi get REALLY BIG, over 30" after 10 years, you NEED a BIG pond for them with at least 500G per Koi and also shoot for at least 75G to 100G per goldfish since they grow to over 12" long. Koi also prefer VERY GOOD water quality and aren't usually as forgiving with water quality issues compared to goldfish. What other kind of fish were you thinking about? Since hubby is still working on the pond, go as BIG as you can based on the above water volume needs for the fish and the number of fish you would like to keep... and also, if you are going to keep Koi, the pond should have a BIG part of it at least 3' deep and deeper would be even better for the Koi.. I have a couple of Pond articles on my blog, one which has links to several free e-Books on building a pond so check them out. They have some very good information in them, including pictures of the process. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com [mailto:AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com] On Behalf Of gardengoddesses2 Sent: Wednesday, June 10, 2009 6:06 PM To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com Subject: [AquaticLife] Introduction: Hi my name is Tawny, I am new to the group Hi Everyone, Thanks for letting me join your group. My name is Tawny and I live on 4 acres in Mandeville Louisiana. This is 45 minutes away from New Orleans. My husband is working on putting a pond in and I just wanted to know if anyone had any suggestions on what types of fish and plants do best in ponds. Any advice at all will be greatly appreciated. I have a friend from freecycle that is going to give me some Butterfly Koi. Do Koi get along with other fish? I would like to have a variety of fish in the pond. Thanks, Tawny oration: none; } #ygrp-msg p#attach-count { clear: both; padding: 15px 0 3px 0; overflow: hidden; } #ygrp-msg p#attach-count span { color: #1E66AE; font-weight: bold; } div#ygrp-mlmsg #ygrp-msg p a span.yshortcuts { font-family: Verdana; font-size: 10px; font-weight: normal; } #ygrp-msg p a { font-family: Verdana; font-size: 10px; } #ygrp-mlmsg a { color: #1E66AE; } div.attach-table div div a { text-decoration: none; } div.attach-table { width: 400px; } --> |-~--> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 40827	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 6/11/2009
Subject: Phosphate test kit and other API test kits

Okay I have a question, I am going to place an order on marinedepot.com in the near future and they don't have a test kit that just tests phosphates, they only have an API test kit that has a phosphate test included (as well as calcium), but the test kit is for a reef tank. Are the test kits interchangeable or can you only use a reef test kit on a saltwater tank? Amber

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 40828	From: Tawny Morrow	Date: 6/11/2009
Subject: Re: Introduction: Hi my name is Tawny, I am new to the group

Hey Lenny, I like the idea of a second pond. Thanks for all of your helpful info. Tawny   TAWNY ________________________________ From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@...> To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Thursday, June 11, 2009 11:12:42 AM Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Introduction: Hi my name is Tawny, I am new to the group Many people do mix them but if you want to keep the purity/beauty of your Koi, especially Butterfly Koi, and hopefully have spawns from them in the future so you can continue the FreeCycle cycle, then it would be best to keep them separate. That, and the fact that you may need all the water volume that you will have just for the Koi. No use in adding more fish to a bioload that might already be heavily burdened by just the Koi. When you build your second pond, you can make that one a goldfish/water garden type pond. Oops.. did I just mention that you will be building a second pond in the near future? Yes, I did! Don't show this reply to hubby. LOL Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com [mailto:AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com] On Behalf Of Tawny Morrow Sent: Thursday, June 11, 2009 6:32 AM To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Introduction: Hi my name is Tawny, I am new to the group Hi Lenny, Thanks for the great information. Someone on freecycle has butterfly Koi that she is going to give me when my pond is done.  I will probally just have Koi in the pond. Thanks for letting me know about the goldfish and Koi because I was going to get goldfish. Please check out my yahoo group GardenGoddesses. A friend from Lakeview and I just started it. Oh well, gotta go, my niece is in the hospital having her baby and I am on my way to there. Thanks again. Talk to ya later.   TAWNY ____________ _________ _________ __ From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@gmail. com> To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com Sent: Wednesday, June 10, 2009 11:21:07 PM Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Introduction: Hi my name is Tawny, I am new to the group Howdy neighbor and welcome to the group. I live down in Metairie, or for simplicity out here in the group, most folks know I'm from N'Awlins! ;-) We also have a few other neighbors nearby who are members of the group. Yes, Koi get along with other fish (they are very peaceful and social) but it's not advised to mix goldfish and Koi as they can and will interbreed and the offspring are usually NOT very pretty... usually resorting back to carp-looking greenish-grayish colored fish. Further, Koi get REALLY BIG, over 30" after 10 years, you NEED a BIG pond for them with at least 500G per Koi and also shoot for at least 75G to 100G per goldfish since they grow to over 12" long. Koi also prefer VERY GOOD water quality and aren't usually as forgiving with water quality issues compared to goldfish. What other kind of fish were you thinking about? Since hubby is still working on the pond, go as BIG as you can based on the above water volume needs for the fish and the number of fish you would like to keep... and also, if you are going to keep Koi, the pond should have a BIG part of it at least 3' deep and deeper would be even better for the Koi. I have a couple of Pond articles on my blog, one which has links to several free e-Books on building a pond so check them out. They have some very good information in them, including pictures of the process. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com [mailto:AquaticLife @ yahoogroups. com] On Behalf Of gardengoddesses2 Sent: Wednesday, June 10, 2009 6:06 PM To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com Subject: [AquaticLife] Introduction: Hi my name is Tawny, I am new to the group Hi Everyone, Thanks for letting me join your group. My name is Tawny and I live on 4 acres in Mandeville Louisiana. This is 45 minutes away from New Orleans. My husband is working on putting a pond in and I just wanted to know if anyone had any suggestions on what types of fish and plants do best in ponds. Any advice at all will be greatly appreciated. I have a friend from freecycle that is going to give me some Butterfly Koi. Do Koi get along with other fish? I would like to have a variety of fish in the pond. Thanks, Tawny [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 40829	From: gardengoddesses2	Date: 6/11/2009
Subject: Winter in Louisiana

Hey Jimmy & Lenny. I know that this is a rare thing, but Dec. 11,2008 we had about 3 to 4 inches of snow in Mandeville. I am putting pictures in an album named Tawny-please view them. I am glad I did not have a pond then, I would have been worried about my fish and plants. Our inground pool did not have ice. Oh, Jimmy was it you or Lenny that offered help with the pond? My husband hopes to break ground this weekend or next. Bring your shovels. JUST KIDDING!!LOL. Ya'll help enough with the great info and advice. Thanks. Tawny

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 40830	From: kathy ragsdale	Date: 6/11/2009
Subject: Re: Phosphate test kit and other API test kits

PetSmart has the freshwater API Master kits and they tell me the Reef kits won't work. They have them on sale too for $23.99 until the 29th Of June. --- On Thu, 6/11/09, Amber Berglund <amber@...> wrote: From: Amber Berglund <amber@...> Subject: [AquaticLife] Phosphate test kit and other API test kits To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Date: Thursday, June 11, 2009, 2:12 PM Okay I have a question, I am going to place an order on marinedepot. com in the near future and they don't have a test kit that just tests phosphates, they only have an API test kit that has a phosphate test included (as well as calcium), but the test kit is for a reef tank. Are the test kits interchangeable or can you only use a reef test kit on a saltwater tank? Amber [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 40831	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 6/11/2009
Subject: Re: Phosphate test kit and other API test kits

Well actually they have other test kits by different companies that only test phosphate, I was only looking at the API products at first ;) Are there any other recommended brands that I should look for? Amber Amber Berglund wrote: > > > Okay I have a question, I am going to place an order on marinedepot.com > in the near future and they don't have a test kit that just tests > phosphates, they only have an API test kit that has a phosphate test > included (as well as calcium), but the test kit is for a reef tank. Are > the test kits interchangeable or can you only use a reef test kit on a > saltwater tank? > > Amber > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 40832	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 6/11/2009
Subject: Re: Winter in Louisiana

IT WAS JIMMY!!!! Whew... I threw him under the bus quick! LOL Yeah.. we did have a little snow down here in the middle of December 2008 also but still nothing like in 1989 when N'Awlins stayed below freezing for three days straight and pipes were busting in homes all over the place. I don't remember how many inches of snow that we had during that three day period but there were snow drifts at least a foot high in some areas. Yeah, I know the dang Yankees out here are laughing at "snow drifts at least a foot high" but that's a LOT of snow for down here. LOL The link to your photo album, "Tawny", is: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife/photos/album/1981798938/pic/list Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of gardengoddesses2 Sent: Thursday, June 11, 2009 9:30 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Winter in Louisiana Hey Jimmy & Lenny. I know that this is a rare thing, but Dec. 11,2008 we had about 3 to 4 inches of snow in Mandeville. I am putting pictures in an album named Tawny-please view them. I am glad I did not have a pond then, I would have been worried about my fish and plants. Our inground pool did not have ice. Oh, Jimmy was it you or Lenny that offered help with the pond? My husband hopes to break ground this weekend or next. Bring your shovels. JUST KIDDING!!LOL. Ya'll help enough with the great info and advice. Thanks. Tawny

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 40833	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 6/11/2009
Subject: Re: Phosphate test kit and other API test kits

That's not a bad price on the API FW Master Test Kit but Walmart.com has them all the time for around $17.00 with free shipping to your local Wal-Mart store so that's still the best buy for the API Master Test Kit. The API Master Test Kit only tests for ammonia, nitrite, nitrate, high pH and low pH, so if one wants a more comprehensive set of test kits, they should also buy the API GH/KH Combo Test Kit. The Phosphate test kit is not needed by most FW fish keepers... only for someone who might be having unexplained algae issues so they can test their tap water and tank water to try and find the source of their algae issues. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of kathy ragsdale Sent: Thursday, June 11, 2009 5:58 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Phosphate test kit and other API test kits PetSmart has the freshwater API Master kits and they tell me the Reef kits won't work. They have them on sale too for $23.99 until the 29th Of June. --- On Thu, 6/11/09, Amber Berglund <amber@...> wrote: From: Amber Berglund <amber@...> Subject: [AquaticLife] Phosphate test kit and other API test kits To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Date: Thursday, June 11, 2009, 2:12 PM Okay I have a question, I am going to place an order on marinedepot. com in the near future and they don't have a test kit that just tests phosphates, they only have an API test kit that has a phosphate test included (as well as calcium), but the test kit is for a reef tank. Are the test kits interchangeable or can you only use a reef test kit on a saltwater tank? Amber

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 40834	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 6/11/2009
Subject: Re: Phosphate test kit and other API test kits

How much was MarineDepot's Combo kit? I posted a link to DrsFosterSmith.com earlier in this thread or one of your algae threads where DFS had the API Phosphate Test Kit for $8.99. The official API website, http://www.aquariumpharm.com on this page http://www.aquariumpharm.com/Products/Product.aspx?ProductID=212 lists all of their Water Testing kits. Their Phosphate Kit http://www.aquariumpharm.com/Products/Product.aspx?ProductID=76 says, "Phosphate can enter your aquarium through tap water, fish waste, and decaying organics such as uneaten food and dead algae. Excess phosphate contributes to unsightly algae blooms. This kit tests phosphate levels from 0 to 10 ppm in fresh and saltwater aquariums." So, it appears their Phosphate test kit is suitable for both FW and SW. The Calcium test kit http://www.aquariumpharm.com/Products/Product.aspx?ProductID=72 says, "Calcium is one of the most important elements in a reef aquarium. Reef invertebrates such as corals, crustaceans, mollusks and even some types of encrusting algae need calcium to grow and remain healthy. Over time, calcium levels drop as invertebrates use calcium in aquarium water. This kit allows you to easily and accurately measure calcium levels and maintain a healthy reef aquarium. Measures calcium levels as low as 20mg/L. Uses titration method, with easy to see color change for precise measurement. For use in reef aquariums" and the BOX pictured on the webpage says "Salt Water" on it but I don't see anything about FW but I can't imagine the test kit not being able to test Calcium in FW also. It's just not as necessary unless one is raising snails, shrimp or other inverts. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Amber Berglund Sent: Thursday, June 11, 2009 4:13 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Phosphate test kit and other API test kits Okay I have a question, I am going to place an order on marinedepot.com in the near future and they don't have a test kit that just tests phosphates, they only have an API test kit that has a phosphate test included (as well as calcium), but the test kit is for a reef tank. Are the test kits interchangeable or can you only use a reef test kit on a saltwater tank? Amber ------------------------------------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the home page. Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com to receive the digest, which includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com for the No E-Mail option where you will still be able to read messages on the group and post replies. Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com to receive individual e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 40835	From: Tawny Morrow	Date: 6/11/2009
Subject: Re: Winter in Louisiana

I do remember 1989's snow. I was in the hospital having my 3rd son. I even made a snowman last year(a small one-my hands got too cold). Us Southerner's are not prepared for playing in the snow. It was beautiful!!   TAWNY ________________________________ From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@...> To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Thursday, June 11, 2009 10:00:47 PM Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Winter in Louisiana IT WAS JIMMY!!!! Whew... I threw him under the bus quick! LOL Yeah.. we did have a little snow down here in the middle of December 2008 also but still nothing like in 1989 when N'Awlins stayed below freezing for three days straight and pipes were busting in homes all over the place. I don't remember how many inches of snow that we had during that three day period but there were snow drifts at least a foot high in some areas. Yeah, I know the dang Yankees out here are laughing at "snow drifts at least a foot high" but that's a LOT of snow for down here. LOL The link to your photo album, "Tawny", is: http://groups. yahoo.com/ group/AquaticLif e/photos/ album/1981798938 /pic/list Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com [mailto:AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com] On Behalf Of gardengoddesses2 Sent: Thursday, June 11, 2009 9:30 PM To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com Subject: [AquaticLife] Winter in Louisiana Hey Jimmy & Lenny. I know that this is a rare thing, but Dec. 11,2008 we had about 3 to 4 inches of snow in Mandeville. I am putting pictures in an album named Tawny-please view them. I am glad I did not have a pond then, I would have been worried about my fish and plants. Our inground pool did not have ice. Oh, Jimmy was it you or Lenny that offered help with the pond? My husband hopes to break ground this weekend or next. Bring your shovels. JUST KIDDING!!LOL. Ya'll help enough with the great info and advice. Thanks. Tawny [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 40836	From: Tawny Morrow	Date: 6/11/2009
Subject: Re: Introduction: Hi my name is Tawny, I am new to the group

Hi Steve, thanks for the warm welcome and great info.   TAWNY ________________________________ From: Steve Szabo <steve@...> To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Wednesday, June 10, 2009 9:00:11 PM Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Introduction: Hi my name is Tawny, I am new to the group Tawny, Welcome to the group. We have a few people here from Louisiana, and they can give you more specific advice for your area. Almost any fish can be kept in a pond, but, obviously, there are only some that will really show off in the pond. You'll be looking at the fish from the top, so if you decide to go with anything but koi, which have been bred for keeping in ponds, you'll need to look at the fish as if they were in a pond, from above, to determine if they would be good for you. You mentioned that you will be able to get some koi from a fellow freecycler. If you go this route, then there really is not many other fish that can be kept with them. Another consideration is that if you wish to plant the pond, it will be difficult with koi, which really love a fresh vegetable aspect being added to their diet. As far as I am concerned, you do not have a winter down there. At least not like the more northern areas of the country do. If the temperature of the water will be below 55 degrees for longish periods of time during the "winter", then you may need to consider what to do with the fish, especially if the water will become covered with ice. Certain varieties of goldfish are good alternatives to koi. Look at the shubunkin varieties (there are three now, varying mostly in body shape and tail style). Ray may be able to help you more here as he did work for one of the well known pond suppliers in its day. My last pond was about 2500 gallons, and I kept paradise fish (absolutely gorgeous coming out of the pond, and very interesting behaviors were observed, a few goldfish that survived the paradise fish, and green swordtails. \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com [mailto:AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com] On Behalf Of gardengoddesses2 Sent: Wednesday, June 10, 2009 7:06 PM To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com Subject: [AquaticLife] Introduction: Hi my name is Tawny, I am new to the group Hi Everyone, Thanks for letting me join your group. My name is Tawny and I live on 4 acres in Mandeville Louisiana. This is 45 minutes away from New Orleans. My husband is working on putting a pond in and I just wanted to know if anyone had any suggestions on what types of fish and plants do best in ponds. Any advice at all will be greatly appreciated. I have a friend from freecycle that is going to give me some Butterfly Koi. Do Koi get along with other fish? I would like to have a variety of fish in the pond. Thanks, Tawny [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 40837	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 6/11/2009
Subject: Re: Phosphate test kit and other API test kits

Well I was considering getting the kit because it was a decent price for multiple tests (also comes with a nitrate test, which I already have). They don't have the API phosphate test for sale separate on marinedepot.com but they do have some other brands that are phosphate test kits, I just wasn't sure what other brands out there are reliable ;) And thanks for looking that up, I had a feeling that the phosphate test was okay for FW tanks, but wasn't sure about the nitrate or calcium test kits. Amber Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > > > How much was MarineDepot's Combo kit? I posted a link to > DrsFosterSmith.com > earlier in this thread or one of your algae threads where DFS had the API > Phosphate Test Kit for $8.99. > > The official API website, http://www.aquariumpharm.com > <http://www.aquariumpharm.com> on this page > http://www.aquariumpharm.com/Products/Product.aspx?ProductID=212 > <http://www.aquariumpharm.com/Products/Product.aspx?ProductID=212> > lists all > of their Water Testing kits. Their Phosphate Kit > http://www.aquariumpharm.com/Products/Product.aspx?ProductID=76 > <http://www.aquariumpharm.com/Products/Product.aspx?ProductID=76> says, > "Phosphate can enter your aquarium through tap water, fish waste, and > decaying organics such as uneaten food and dead algae. Excess phosphate > contributes to unsightly algae blooms. This kit tests phosphate levels > from > 0 to 10 ppm in fresh and saltwater aquariums." > > So, it appears their Phosphate test kit is suitable for both FW and SW. > > The Calcium test kit > http://www.aquariumpharm.com/Products/Product.aspx?ProductID=72 > <http://www.aquariumpharm.com/Products/Product.aspx?ProductID=72> says, > "Calcium is one of the most important elements in a reef aquarium. Reef > invertebrates such as corals, crustaceans, mollusks and even some types of > encrusting algae need calcium to grow and remain healthy. Over time, > calcium > levels drop as invertebrates use calcium in aquarium water. This kit > allows > you to easily and accurately measure calcium levels and maintain a healthy > reef aquarium. Measures calcium levels as low as 20mg/L. Uses titration > method, with easy to see color change for precise measurement. For use in > reef aquariums" and the BOX pictured on the webpage says "Salt Water" > on it > but I don't see anything about FW but I can't imagine the test kit not > being > able to test Calcium in FW also. It's just not as necessary unless one is > raising snails, shrimp or other inverts. > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right > side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On > Behalf Of Amber Berglund > Sent: Thursday, June 11, 2009 4:13 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Subject: [AquaticLife] Phosphate test kit and other API test kits > > Okay I have a question, I am going to place an order on marinedepot.com in > the near future and they don't have a test kit that just tests phosphates, > they only have an API test kit that has a phosphate test included (as well > as calcium), but the test kit is for a reef tank. Are the test kits > interchangeable or can you only use a reef test kit on a saltwater tank? > > Amber > > ------------------------------------ > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. > ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> > PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to > the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the > SUBJECT > LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- > <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. > > If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of unsubscribing, you > can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the > home page. > > Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:aquaticlife-digest%40yahoogroups.com> to receive the digest, which > includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email > > Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:aquaticlife-nomail%40yahoogroups.com> for the No E-Mail option > where > you will still be able to read messages on the group and post replies. > > Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:aquaticlife-normal%40yahoogroups.com> to receive individual > e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 40838	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 6/11/2009
Subject: Re: Phosphate test kit and other API test kits

Well nevermind, I just went to go search for the test kit again and now I can't even find it listed on the site, perhaps it was sold out or something. I still need some suggestions on good brands to get besides API ;) They have a seachem multitest for 12.69. Amber Amber Berglund wrote: > > > Well I was considering getting the kit because it was a decent price for > multiple tests (also comes with a nitrate test, which I already have). > They don't have the API phosphate test for sale separate on > marinedepot.com but they do have some other brands that are phosphate > test kits, I just wasn't sure what other brands out there are reliable ;) > And thanks for looking that up, I had a feeling that the phosphate test > was okay for FW tanks, but wasn't sure about the nitrate or calcium test > kits. > > Amber > > Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > > > > > > How much was MarineDepot's Combo kit? I posted a link to > > DrsFosterSmith.com > > earlier in this thread or one of your algae threads where DFS had > the API > > Phosphate Test Kit for $8.99. > > > > The official API website, http://www.aquariumpharm.com > <http://www.aquariumpharm.com> > > <http://www.aquariumpharm.com <http://www.aquariumpharm.com>> on > this page > > http://www.aquariumpharm.com/Products/Product.aspx?ProductID=212 > <http://www.aquariumpharm.com/Products/Product.aspx?ProductID=212> > > <http://www.aquariumpharm.com/Products/Product.aspx?ProductID=212 > <http://www.aquariumpharm.com/Products/Product.aspx?ProductID=212>> > > lists all > > of their Water Testing kits. Their Phosphate Kit > > http://www.aquariumpharm.com/Products/Product.aspx?ProductID=76 > <http://www.aquariumpharm.com/Products/Product.aspx?ProductID=76> > > <http://www.aquariumpharm.com/Products/Product.aspx?ProductID=76 > <http://www.aquariumpharm.com/Products/Product.aspx?ProductID=76>> says, > > "Phosphate can enter your aquarium through tap water, fish waste, and > > decaying organics such as uneaten food and dead algae. Excess phosphate > > contributes to unsightly algae blooms. This kit tests phosphate levels > > from > > 0 to 10 ppm in fresh and saltwater aquariums." > > > > So, it appears their Phosphate test kit is suitable for both FW and SW. > > > > The Calcium test kit > > http://www.aquariumpharm.com/Products/Product.aspx?ProductID=72 > <http://www.aquariumpharm.com/Products/Product.aspx?ProductID=72> > > <http://www.aquariumpharm.com/Products/Product.aspx?ProductID=72 > <http://www.aquariumpharm.com/Products/Product.aspx?ProductID=72>> says, > > "Calcium is one of the most important elements in a reef aquarium. Reef > > invertebrates such as corals, crustaceans, mollusks and even some > types of > > encrusting algae need calcium to grow and remain healthy. Over time, > > calcium > > levels drop as invertebrates use calcium in aquarium water. This kit > > allows > > you to easily and accurately measure calcium levels and maintain a > healthy > > reef aquarium. Measures calcium levels as low as 20mg/L. Uses titration > > method, with easy to see color change for precise measurement. For > use in > > reef aquariums" and the BOX pictured on the webpage says "Salt Water" > > on it > > but I don't see anything about FW but I can't imagine the test kit not > > being > > able to test Calcium in FW also. It's just not as necessary unless > one is > > raising snails, shrimp or other inverts. > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>> > > (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right > > side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, > Month) > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On > > Behalf Of Amber Berglund > > Sent: Thursday, June 11, 2009 4:13 PM > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > Subject: [AquaticLife] Phosphate test kit and other API test kits > > > > Okay I have a question, I am going to place an order on > marinedepot.com in > > the near future and they don't have a test kit that just tests > phosphates, > > they only have an API test kit that has a phosphate test included > (as well > > as calcium), but the test kit is for a reef tank. Are the test kits > > interchangeable or can you only use a reef test kit on a saltwater tank? > > > > Amber > > > > ------------------------------------ > > > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, > Thank You. > > ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> > > PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT > important to > > the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the > > SUBJECT > > LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- > > <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. > > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. > > > > If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of > unsubscribing, you > > can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My Membership" > on the > > home page. > > > > Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:aquaticlife-digest%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:aquaticlife-digest%40yahoogroups.com> to receive the digest, > which > > includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email > > > > Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:aquaticlife-nomail%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:aquaticlife-nomail%40yahoogroups.com> for the No E-Mail option > > where > > you will still be able to read messages on the group and post replies. > > > > Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:aquaticlife-normal%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:aquaticlife-normal%40yahoogroups.com> to receive individual > > e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 40839	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 6/11/2009
Subject: Re: Winter in Louisiana

What? You would have gotten worried over a few flurries? Ray "kingfish" Lucas would probably laugh himself silly over that. For him, where he lives, 3-4 feet is a light snow. \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of gardengoddesses2 Sent: Thursday, June 11, 2009 10:30 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Winter in Louisiana Hey Jimmy & Lenny. I know that this is a rare thing, but Dec. 11,2008 we had about 3 to 4 inches of snow in Mandeville. I am putting pictures in an album named Tawny-please view them. I am glad I did not have a pond then, I would have been worried about my fish and plants. Our inground pool did not have ice. Oh, Jimmy was it you or Lenny that offered help with the pond? My husband hopes to break ground this weekend or next. Bring your shovels. JUST KIDDING!!LOL. Ya'll help enough with the great info and advice. Thanks. Tawny

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 40840	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 6/11/2009
Subject: Re: Winter in Louisiana

Yeah, Lenny, it was Jimmy. I think he was looking for Tawny to give him a time to show up with his shovel. Heck, when the snow doesn't drift, we get drifts larger than that. Down the road where I grew up and my parents still live, there is a place that regularly gets drifts of 10' plus. \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Lenny V. aka GoldLenny Sent: Thursday, June 11, 2009 11:01 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Winter in Louisiana IT WAS JIMMY!!!! Whew... I threw him under the bus quick! LOL Yeah.. we did have a little snow down here in the middle of December 2008 also but still nothing like in 1989 when N'Awlins stayed below freezing for three days straight and pipes were busting in homes all over the place. I don't remember how many inches of snow that we had during that three day period but there were snow drifts at least a foot high in some areas. Yeah, I know the dang Yankees out here are laughing at "snow drifts at least a foot high" but that's a LOT of snow for down here. LOL The link to your photo album, "Tawny", is: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife/photos/album/1981798938/pic/li st Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of gardengoddesses2 Sent: Thursday, June 11, 2009 9:30 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Winter in Louisiana Hey Jimmy & Lenny. I know that this is a rare thing, but Dec. 11,2008 we had about 3 to 4 inches of snow in Mandeville. I am putting pictures in an album named Tawny-please view them. I am glad I did not have a pond then, I would have been worried about my fish and plants. Our inground pool did not have ice. Oh, Jimmy was it you or Lenny that offered help with the pond? My husband hopes to break ground this weekend or next. Bring your shovels. JUST KIDDING!!LOL. Ya'll help enough with the great info and advice. Thanks. Tawny

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 40841	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 6/11/2009
Subject: Re: Phosphate test kit and other API test kits

Check AquariumPharm.com for the SW Nitrate kit. I think it may be useable in FW also but possibly not since SW tanks need to have MUCH lower levels of nitrates compared to our FW tanks so the kit may only test from 1ppm to 5ppm or something like that, rather than the 5ppm to 100+ppm of nitrates on the FW nitrate test kit. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Amber Berglund Sent: Thursday, June 11, 2009 11:06 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Phosphate test kit and other API test kits Well I was considering getting the kit because it was a decent price for multiple tests (also comes with a nitrate test, which I already have). They don't have the API phosphate test for sale separate on marinedepot.com but they do have some other brands that are phosphate test kits, I just wasn't sure what other brands out there are reliable ;) And thanks for looking that up, I had a feeling that the phosphate test was okay for FW tanks, but wasn't sure about the nitrate or calcium test kits. Amber Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > > > How much was MarineDepot's Combo kit? I posted a link to > DrsFosterSmith.com earlier in this thread or one of your algae threads > where DFS had the API Phosphate Test Kit for $8.99. > > The official API website, http://www.aquariumpharm.com > <http://www.aquariumpharm.com> on this page > http://www.aquariumpharm.com/Products/Product.aspx?ProductID=212 > <http://www.aquariumpharm.com/Products/Product.aspx?ProductID=212> > lists all > of their Water Testing kits. Their Phosphate Kit > http://www.aquariumpharm.com/Products/Product.aspx?ProductID=76 > <http://www.aquariumpharm.com/Products/Product.aspx?ProductID=76> > says, "Phosphate can enter your aquarium through tap water, fish > waste, and decaying organics such as uneaten food and dead algae. > Excess phosphate contributes to unsightly algae blooms. This kit tests > phosphate levels from 0 to 10 ppm in fresh and saltwater aquariums." > > So, it appears their Phosphate test kit is suitable for both FW and SW. > > The Calcium test kit > http://www.aquariumpharm.com/Products/Product.aspx?ProductID=72 > <http://www.aquariumpharm.com/Products/Product.aspx?ProductID=72> > says, "Calcium is one of the most important elements in a reef > aquarium. Reef invertebrates such as corals, crustaceans, mollusks and > even some types of encrusting algae need calcium to grow and remain > healthy. Over time, calcium levels drop as invertebrates use calcium > in aquarium water. This kit allows you to easily and accurately > measure calcium levels and maintain a healthy reef aquarium. Measures > calcium levels as low as 20mg/L. Uses titration method, with easy to > see color change for precise measurement. For use in reef aquariums" > and the BOX pictured on the webpage says "Salt Water" > on it > but I don't see anything about FW but I can't imagine the test kit not > being able to test Calcium in FW also. It's just not as necessary > unless one is raising snails, shrimp or other inverts. > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> (Links to any articles referenced in > above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels > and also under Archives by Year, Month) > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On Behalf Of Amber Berglund > Sent: Thursday, June 11, 2009 4:13 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Subject: [AquaticLife] Phosphate test kit and other API test kits > > Okay I have a question, I am going to place an order on > marinedepot.com in the near future and they don't have a test kit that > just tests phosphates, they only have an API test kit that has a > phosphate test included (as well as calcium), but the test kit is for > a reef tank. Are the test kits interchangeable or can you only use a reef test kit on a saltwater tank? > > Amber

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 40842	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 6/11/2009
Subject: Re: Phosphate test kit and other API test kits

Here's the link to the Reef Master Test Kit on MarineDepot.com. http://www.marinedepot.com/ps_ViewItem~category~Aquarium_Pharmaceuticals_Ree f_Master_Test_Kit_Specialty_Test_Kits_for_Saltwater_Aquariums~vendor~Aquariu m_Pharmaceuticals~idProduct~AP3323~idCategory~FITKSI.html Presuming the link will break, go to http://www.MarineDepot.com, click on the Test Kits link on the left side. Then click on the Aquarium Pharmaceuticals link. Then scroll down to the Reef Test Kit for $24.99 (I'm presuming this is the one you were talking about). I also see that the API Nitrate test kit is for either FW or SW so maybe there are just different instructions and a color card for the SW Nitrate Test Kit that you would not use and you would have to use your FW Nitrate Test Kit instructions and color card. I can't help you with brand recommendations since I've never had to use a Phosphate Test Kit before. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Amber Berglund Sent: Thursday, June 11, 2009 11:27 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Phosphate test kit and other API test kits Well nevermind, I just went to go search for the test kit again and now I can't even find it listed on the site, perhaps it was sold out or something. I still need some suggestions on good brands to get besides API ;) They have a seachem multitest for 12.69. Amber Amber Berglund wrote: > > > Well I was considering getting the kit because it was a decent price > for multiple tests (also comes with a nitrate test, which I already have). > They don't have the API phosphate test for sale separate on > marinedepot.com but they do have some other brands that are phosphate > test kits, I just wasn't sure what other brands out there are reliable > ;) And thanks for looking that up, I had a feeling that the phosphate > test was okay for FW tanks, but wasn't sure about the nitrate or > calcium test kits. > > Amber > > Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > > > > > > How much was MarineDepot's Combo kit? I posted a link to > > DrsFosterSmith.com earlier in this thread or one of your algae > > threads where DFS had > the API > > Phosphate Test Kit for $8.99. > > > > The official API website, http://www.aquariumpharm.com > <http://www.aquariumpharm.com> > > <http://www.aquariumpharm.com <http://www.aquariumpharm.com>> on > this page > > http://www.aquariumpharm.com/Products/Product.aspx?ProductID=212 > <http://www.aquariumpharm.com/Products/Product.aspx?ProductID=212> > > <http://www.aquariumpharm.com/Products/Product.aspx?ProductID=212 > <http://www.aquariumpharm.com/Products/Product.aspx?ProductID=212>> > > lists all > > of their Water Testing kits. Their Phosphate Kit > > http://www.aquariumpharm.com/Products/Product.aspx?ProductID=76 > <http://www.aquariumpharm.com/Products/Product.aspx?ProductID=76> > > <http://www.aquariumpharm.com/Products/Product.aspx?ProductID=76 > <http://www.aquariumpharm.com/Products/Product.aspx?ProductID=76>> > says, > > "Phosphate can enter your aquarium through tap water, fish waste, > > and decaying organics such as uneaten food and dead algae. Excess > > phosphate contributes to unsightly algae blooms. This kit tests > > phosphate levels from 0 to 10 ppm in fresh and saltwater aquariums." > > > > So, it appears their Phosphate test kit is suitable for both FW and SW. > > > > The Calcium test kit > > http://www.aquariumpharm.com/Products/Product.aspx?ProductID=72 > <http://www.aquariumpharm.com/Products/Product.aspx?ProductID=72> > > <http://www.aquariumpharm.com/Products/Product.aspx?ProductID=72 > <http://www.aquariumpharm.com/Products/Product.aspx?ProductID=72>> > says, > > "Calcium is one of the most important elements in a reef aquarium. > > Reef invertebrates such as corals, crustaceans, mollusks and even > > some > types of > > encrusting algae need calcium to grow and remain healthy. Over time, > > calcium levels drop as invertebrates use calcium in aquarium water. > > This kit allows you to easily and accurately measure calcium levels > > and maintain a > healthy > > reef aquarium. Measures calcium levels as low as 20mg/L. Uses > > titration method, with easy to see color change for precise > > measurement. For > use in > > reef aquariums" and the BOX pictured on the webpage says "Salt Water" > > on it > > but I don't see anything about FW but I can't imagine the test kit > > not being able to test Calcium in FW also. It's just not as > > necessary unless > one is > > raising snails, shrimp or other inverts. > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>> > > (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the > > right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by > > Year, > Month) > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On Behalf Of Amber Berglund > > Sent: Thursday, June 11, 2009 4:13 PM > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > Subject: [AquaticLife] Phosphate test kit and other API test kits > > > > Okay I have a question, I am going to place an order on > marinedepot.com in > > the near future and they don't have a test kit that just tests > phosphates, > > they only have an API test kit that has a phosphate test included > (as well > > as calcium), but the test kit is for a reef tank. Are the test kits > > interchangeable or can you only use a reef test kit on a saltwater tank? > > > > Amber

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 40843	From: Tawny Morrow	Date: 6/11/2009
Subject: Re: Winter in Louisiana

OMG!!  How beautiful that must be. TAWNY ________________________________ From: Steve Szabo <steve@...> To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Thursday, June 11, 2009 11:29:24 PM Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Winter in Louisiana What? You would have gotten worried over a few flurries? Ray "kingfish" Lucas would probably laugh himself silly over that. For him, where he lives, 3-4 feet is a light snow. \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com [mailto:AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com] On Behalf Of gardengoddesses2 Sent: Thursday, June 11, 2009 10:30 PM To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com Subject: [AquaticLife] Winter in Louisiana Hey Jimmy & Lenny. I know that this is a rare thing, but Dec. 11,2008 we had about 3 to 4 inches of snow in Mandeville. I am putting pictures in an album named Tawny-please view them. I am glad I did not have a pond then, I would have been worried about my fish and plants. Our inground pool did not have ice. Oh, Jimmy was it you or Lenny that offered help with the pond? My husband hopes to break ground this weekend or next. Bring your shovels. JUST KIDDING!!LOL. Ya'll help enough with the great info and advice. Thanks. Tawny [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 40844	From: mosquitokr2002	Date: 6/12/2009
Subject: Re: Mystery fish

The mystery fish looks a lot like an Emperor Tetra to me. You can see various images here to compare: http://images.google.com/images?hl=en&um=1&ei=bkAySpzICo-PkAWMlJicCg&sa=X&oi=spell&resnum=0&ct=result&cd=1&q=emperor+tetra&spell=1 --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "turbocoupe76" <turbocoupe76@...> wrote: > > OK I posted 2 pics of my mystery fish in the Photo section. Anyone seen this fish before? I havent lol >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 40845	From: hank voss	Date: 6/12/2009
Subject: Re: Winter in Louisiana

--- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, Tawny Morrow <gardengoddesses2@...> wrote: Ahh yes,oh the memories of having to shovel 185 feet of sidewalk of 2-3 ft. of heavy snow in 20 degree temps.and the wind blowing through my hair.only to have it drift back in and to do it all over again,I wonder if thats why I moved to Fl.???? Hank (its 85F now) > OMG!!  How beautiful that must be. > TAWNY > > > > > ________________________________ > From: Steve Szabo <steve@...> > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Sent: Thursday, June 11, 2009 11:29:24 PM > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Winter in Louisiana > > > > > > What? You would have gotten worried over a few flurries? Ray "kingfish" > Lucas would probably laugh himself silly over that. For him, where he > lives, 3-4 feet is a light snow. > > \\Steve// >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 40846	From: Tawny Morrow	Date: 6/12/2009
Subject: Re: Winter in Louisiana

Sounds like a pretty good reason to me!! It must have been beautiful!   TAWNY ________________________________ From: hank voss <aatetras@...> To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Friday, June 12, 2009 9:18:14 AM Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Winter in Louisiana --- In AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com, Tawny Morrow <gardengoddesses2@ ...> wrote: Ahh yes,oh the memories of having to shovel 185 feet of sidewalk of 2-3 ft. of heavy snow in 20 degree temps.and the wind blowing through my hair.only to have it drift back in and to do it all over again,I wonder if thats why I moved to Fl.???? Hank (its 85F now) > OMG!!  How beautiful that must be. > TAWNY > > > > > ____________ _________ _________ __ > From: Steve Szabo <steve@...> > To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com > Sent: Thursday, June 11, 2009 11:29:24 PM > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Winter in Louisiana > > > > > > What? You would have gotten worried over a few flurries? Ray "kingfish" > Lucas would probably laugh himself silly over that. For him, where he > lives, 3-4 feet is a light snow. > > \\Steve// > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 40847	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 6/12/2009
Subject: Re: Phosphate test kit and other API test kits

The reef kit is now on sale for 19.99, I think I'm going to get it instead of a phosphate only test, I know that API test kits work well enough and I'm used to their color charts. I will know which ones are good for both saltwater and freshwater when they show up I guess ;) Amber Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > > > Here's the link to the Reef Master Test Kit on MarineDepot.com. > > http://www.marinedepot.com/ps_ViewItem~category~Aquarium_Pharmaceuticals_Ree > <http://www.marinedepot.com/ps_ViewItem%7Ecategory%7EAquarium_Pharmaceuticals_Ree> > f_Master_Test_Kit_Specialty_Test_Kits_for_Saltwater_Aquariums~vendor~Aquariu > m_Pharmaceuticals~idProduct~AP3323~idCategory~FITKSI.html > > Presuming the link will break, go to http://www.MarineDepot.com, > <http://www.MarineDepot.com,> click on > the Test Kits link on the left side. Then click on the Aquarium > Pharmaceuticals link. Then scroll down to the Reef Test Kit for $24.99 > (I'm > presuming this is the one you were talking about). I also see that the API > Nitrate test kit is for either FW or SW so maybe there are just different > instructions and a color card for the SW Nitrate Test Kit that you > would not > use and you would have to use your FW Nitrate Test Kit instructions and > color card. > > I can't help you with brand recommendations since I've never had to use a > Phosphate Test Kit before. > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right > side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On > Behalf Of Amber Berglund > Sent: Thursday, June 11, 2009 11:27 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Phosphate test kit and other API test kits > > Well nevermind, I just went to go search for the test kit again and now I > can't even find it listed on the site, perhaps it was sold out or > something. > I still need some suggestions on good brands to get besides API ;) > They have > a seachem multitest for 12.69. > > Amber > > Amber Berglund wrote: > > > > > > Well I was considering getting the kit because it was a decent price > > for multiple tests (also comes with a nitrate test, which I already > have). > > They don't have the API phosphate test for sale separate on > > marinedepot.com but they do have some other brands that are phosphate > > test kits, I just wasn't sure what other brands out there are reliable > > ;) And thanks for looking that up, I had a feeling that the phosphate > > test was okay for FW tanks, but wasn't sure about the nitrate or > > calcium test kits. > > > > Amber > > > > Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > > > > > > > > > How much was MarineDepot's Combo kit? I posted a link to > > > DrsFosterSmith.com earlier in this thread or one of your algae > > > threads where DFS had > > the API > > > Phosphate Test Kit for $8.99. > > > > > > The official API website, http://www.aquariumpharm.com > <http://www.aquariumpharm.com> > > <http://www.aquariumpharm.com <http://www.aquariumpharm.com>> > > > <http://www.aquariumpharm.com <http://www.aquariumpharm.com> > <http://www.aquariumpharm.com <http://www.aquariumpharm.com>>> on > > this page > > > http://www.aquariumpharm.com/Products/Product.aspx?ProductID=212 > <http://www.aquariumpharm.com/Products/Product.aspx?ProductID=212> > > <http://www.aquariumpharm.com/Products/Product.aspx?ProductID=212 > <http://www.aquariumpharm.com/Products/Product.aspx?ProductID=212>> > > > <http://www.aquariumpharm.com/Products/Product.aspx?ProductID=212 > <http://www.aquariumpharm.com/Products/Product.aspx?ProductID=212> > > <http://www.aquariumpharm.com/Products/Product.aspx?ProductID=212 > <http://www.aquariumpharm.com/Products/Product.aspx?ProductID=212>>> > > > lists all > > > of their Water Testing kits. Their Phosphate Kit > > > http://www.aquariumpharm.com/Products/Product.aspx?ProductID=76 > <http://www.aquariumpharm.com/Products/Product.aspx?ProductID=76> > > <http://www.aquariumpharm.com/Products/Product.aspx?ProductID=76 > <http://www.aquariumpharm.com/Products/Product.aspx?ProductID=76>> > > > <http://www.aquariumpharm.com/Products/Product.aspx?ProductID=76 > <http://www.aquariumpharm.com/Products/Product.aspx?ProductID=76> > > <http://www.aquariumpharm.com/Products/Product.aspx?ProductID=76 > <http://www.aquariumpharm.com/Products/Product.aspx?ProductID=76>>> > > says, > > > "Phosphate can enter your aquarium through tap water, fish waste, > > > and decaying organics such as uneaten food and dead algae. Excess > > > phosphate contributes to unsightly algae blooms. This kit tests > > > phosphate levels from 0 to 10 ppm in fresh and saltwater aquariums." > > > > > > So, it appears their Phosphate test kit is suitable for both FW > and SW. > > > > > > The Calcium test kit > > > http://www.aquariumpharm.com/Products/Product.aspx?ProductID=72 > <http://www.aquariumpharm.com/Products/Product.aspx?ProductID=72> > > <http://www.aquariumpharm.com/Products/Product.aspx?ProductID=72 > <http://www.aquariumpharm.com/Products/Product.aspx?ProductID=72>> > > > <http://www.aquariumpharm.com/Products/Product.aspx?ProductID=72 > <http://www.aquariumpharm.com/Products/Product.aspx?ProductID=72> > > <http://www.aquariumpharm.com/Products/Product.aspx?ProductID=72 > <http://www.aquariumpharm.com/Products/Product.aspx?ProductID=72>>> > > says, > > > "Calcium is one of the most important elements in a reef aquarium. > > > Reef invertebrates such as corals, crustaceans, mollusks and even > > > some > > types of > > > encrusting algae need calcium to grow and remain healthy. Over time, > > > calcium levels drop as invertebrates use calcium in aquarium water. > > > This kit allows you to easily and accurately measure calcium levels > > > and maintain a > > healthy > > > reef aquarium. Measures calcium levels as low as 20mg/L. Uses > > > titration method, with easy to see color change for precise > > > measurement. For > > use in > > > reef aquariums" and the BOX pictured on the webpage says "Salt Water" > > > on it > > > but I don't see anything about FW but I can't imagine the test kit > > > not being able to test Calcium in FW also. It's just not as > > > necessary unless > > one is > > > raising snails, shrimp or other inverts. > > > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>>> > > > (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the > > > right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by > > > Year, > > Month) > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On Behalf Of Amber Berglund > > > Sent: Thursday, June 11, 2009 4:13 PM > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > Subject: [AquaticLife] Phosphate test kit and other API test kits > > > > > > Okay I have a question, I am going to place an order on > > marinedepot.com in > > > the near future and they don't have a test kit that just tests > > phosphates, > > > they only have an API test kit that has a phosphate test included > > (as well > > > as calcium), but the test kit is for a reef tank. Are the test kits > > > interchangeable or can you only use a reef test kit on a saltwater > tank? > > > > > > Amber > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 40848	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 6/12/2009
Subject: Re: Phosphate test kit and other API test kits

Yep. When the price drops by $5.00, overnight, that is God's way of saying to BUY IT NOW!!! LOL I just looked at what comes in the kit again and it has a KH test kit also which is something you can use on a regular basis as well. So it's actually a pretty good deal since you'll be getting two kits that you don't have and need (Phosphate and KH=Carbonate Hardness) and a Nitrate kit you can use when your current kit runs out. Just don't open the Nitrate kit bottles until your current kit runs out or expires (or a year goes by after first using it). I guess the Calcium kit could be used but it's not as likely unless you get into having lots of inverts. OR... now that you'll have a Master Reef Test Kit, it might be time to set up a Reef Tank. Isn't there room in that back corner of the living room for another tank??? LOL Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Amber Berglund Sent: Friday, June 12, 2009 10:13 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Phosphate test kit and other API test kits The reef kit is now on sale for 19.99, I think I'm going to get it instead of a phosphate only test, I know that API test kits work well enough and I'm used to their color charts. I will know which ones are good for both saltwater and freshwater when they show up I guess ;) Amber Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > > > Here's the link to the Reef Master Test Kit on MarineDepot.com. > > http://www.marinedepot.com/ps_ViewItem~category~Aquarium_Pharmaceutica > ls_Ree > <http://www.marinedepot.com/ps_ViewItem%7Ecategory%7EAquarium_Pharmace > uticals_Ree> > f_Master_Test_Kit_Specialty_Test_Kits_for_Saltwater_Aquariums~vendor~A > quariu m_Pharmaceuticals~idProduct~AP3323~idCategory~FITKSI.html > > Presuming the link will break, go to http://www.MarineDepot.com, > <http://www.MarineDepot.com,> click on the Test Kits link on the left > side. Then click on the Aquarium Pharmaceuticals link. Then scroll > down to the Reef Test Kit for $24.99 (I'm presuming this is the one > you were talking about). I also see that the API Nitrate test kit is > for either FW or SW so maybe there are just different instructions and > a color card for the SW Nitrate Test Kit that you would not use and > you would have to use your FW Nitrate Test Kit instructions and color > card. > > I can't help you with brand recommendations since I've never had to > use a Phosphate Test Kit before. > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> (Links to any articles referenced in > above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels > and also under Archives by Year, Month) > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On Behalf Of Amber Berglund > Sent: Thursday, June 11, 2009 11:27 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Phosphate test kit and other API test kits > > Well nevermind, I just went to go search for the test kit again and > now I can't even find it listed on the site, perhaps it was sold out > or something. > I still need some suggestions on good brands to get besides API ;) > They have a seachem multitest for 12.69. > > Amber > > Amber Berglund wrote: > > > > > > Well I was considering getting the kit because it was a decent price > > for multiple tests (also comes with a nitrate test, which I already > have). > > They don't have the API phosphate test for sale separate on > > marinedepot.com but they do have some other brands that are > > phosphate test kits, I just wasn't sure what other brands out there > > are reliable > > ;) And thanks for looking that up, I had a feeling that the > > phosphate test was okay for FW tanks, but wasn't sure about the > > nitrate or calcium test kits. > > > > Amber > > > > Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > > > > > > > > > How much was MarineDepot's Combo kit? I posted a link to > > > DrsFosterSmith.com earlier in this thread or one of your algae > > > threads where DFS had > > the API > > > Phosphate Test Kit for $8.99. > > > > > > The official API website, http://www.aquariumpharm.com > <http://www.aquariumpharm.com> > > <http://www.aquariumpharm.com <http://www.aquariumpharm.com>> > > > <http://www.aquariumpharm.com <http://www.aquariumpharm.com> > <http://www.aquariumpharm.com <http://www.aquariumpharm.com>>> on > > this page > > > http://www.aquariumpharm.com/Products/Product.aspx?ProductID=212 > <http://www.aquariumpharm.com/Products/Product.aspx?ProductID=212> > > <http://www.aquariumpharm.com/Products/Product.aspx?ProductID=212 > <http://www.aquariumpharm.com/Products/Product.aspx?ProductID=212>> > > > <http://www.aquariumpharm.com/Products/Product.aspx?ProductID=212 > <http://www.aquariumpharm.com/Products/Product.aspx?ProductID=212> > > <http://www.aquariumpharm.com/Products/Product.aspx?ProductID=212 > <http://www.aquariumpharm.com/Products/Product.aspx?ProductID=212>>> > > > lists all > > > of their Water Testing kits. Their Phosphate Kit > > > http://www.aquariumpharm.com/Products/Product.aspx?ProductID=76 > <http://www.aquariumpharm.com/Products/Product.aspx?ProductID=76> > > <http://www.aquariumpharm.com/Products/Product.aspx?ProductID=76 > <http://www.aquariumpharm.com/Products/Product.aspx?ProductID=76>> > > > <http://www.aquariumpharm.com/Products/Product.aspx?ProductID=76 > <http://www.aquariumpharm.com/Products/Product.aspx?ProductID=76> > > <http://www.aquariumpharm.com/Products/Product.aspx?ProductID=76 > <http://www.aquariumpharm.com/Products/Product.aspx?ProductID=76>>> > > says, > > > "Phosphate can enter your aquarium through tap water, fish waste, > > > and decaying organics such as uneaten food and dead algae. Excess > > > phosphate contributes to unsightly algae blooms. This kit tests > > > phosphate levels from 0 to 10 ppm in fresh and saltwater aquariums." > > > > > > So, it appears their Phosphate test kit is suitable for both FW > and SW. > > > > > > The Calcium test kit > > > http://www.aquariumpharm.com/Products/Product.aspx?ProductID=72 > <http://www.aquariumpharm.com/Products/Product.aspx?ProductID=72> > > <http://www.aquariumpharm.com/Products/Product.aspx?ProductID=72 > <http://www.aquariumpharm.com/Products/Product.aspx?ProductID=72>> > > > <http://www.aquariumpharm.com/Products/Product.aspx?ProductID=72 > <http://www.aquariumpharm.com/Products/Product.aspx?ProductID=72> > > <http://www.aquariumpharm.com/Products/Product.aspx?ProductID=72 > <http://www.aquariumpharm.com/Products/Product.aspx?ProductID=72>>> > > says, > > > "Calcium is one of the most important elements in a reef aquarium. > > > Reef invertebrates such as corals, crustaceans, mollusks and even > > > some > > types of > > > encrusting algae need calcium to grow and remain healthy. Over > > > time, calcium levels drop as invertebrates use calcium in aquarium water. > > > This kit allows you to easily and accurately measure calcium > > > levels and maintain a > > healthy > > > reef aquarium. Measures calcium levels as low as 20mg/L. Uses > > > titration method, with easy to see color change for precise > > > measurement. For > > use in > > > reef aquariums" and the BOX pictured on the webpage says "Salt Water" > > > on it > > > but I don't see anything about FW but I can't imagine the test kit > > > not being able to test Calcium in FW also. It's just not as > > > necessary unless > > one is > > > raising snails, shrimp or other inverts. > > > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>>> > > > (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the > > > right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by > > > Year, > > Month) > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On Behalf Of Amber > > > Berglund > > > Sent: Thursday, June 11, 2009 4:13 PM > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > Subject: [AquaticLife] Phosphate test kit and other API test kits > > > > > > Okay I have a question, I am going to place an order on > > marinedepot.com in > > > the near future and they don't have a test kit that just tests > > phosphates, > > > they only have an API test kit that has a phosphate test included > > (as well > > > as calcium), but the test kit is for a reef tank. Are the test > > > kits interchangeable or can you only use a reef test kit on a > > > saltwater > tank? > > > > > > Amber

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 40849	From: Jimmy McHaney	Date: 6/12/2009
Subject: Re: Winter in Louisiana

It must have been Lenny lol. Sent from my iPod Jimmy On Jun 11, 2009, at 9:30 PM, "gardengoddesses2" <gardengoddesses2@...> wrote: Hey Jimmy & Lenny. I know that this is a rare thing, but Dec. 11,2008 we had about 3 to 4 inches of snow in Mandeville. I am putting pictures in an album named Tawny-please view them. I am glad I did not have a pond then, I would have been worried about my fish and plants. Our inground pool did not have ice. Oh, Jimmy was it you or Lenny that offered help with the pond? My husband hopes to break ground this weekend or next. Bring your shovels. JUST KIDDING!!LOL. Ya'll help enough with the great info and advice. Thanks. Tawny [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 40850	From: Jimmy McHaney	Date: 6/12/2009
Subject: Re: Phosphate test kit and other API test kits

I have an API Fresh Water Phosphate Test Kit. Sent from my iPod Jimmy On Jun 11, 2009, at 4:29 PM, Amber Berglund <amber@...> wrote: Well actually they have other test kits by different companies that only test phosphate, I was only looking at the API products at first ;) Are there any other recommended brands that I should look for? Amber Amber Berglund wrote: > > > Okay I have a question, I am going to place an order on marinedepot.com > in the near future and they don't have a test kit that just tests > phosphates, they only have an API test kit that has a phosphate test > included (as well as calcium), but the test kit is for a reef tank. Are > the test kits interchangeable or can you only use a reef test kit on a > saltwater tank? > > Amber > > #ygrp-msg p#attach-count span { color: #1E66AE; font-weight: bold; } div#ygrp-mlmsg #ygrp-msg p a span.yshortcuts { font-family: Verdana; font-size: 10px; font-weight: normal; } #ygrp-msg p a { font-family: Verdana; font-size: 10px; } #ygrp-mlmsg a { color: #1E66AE; } div.attach-table div div a { text-decoration: none; } div.attach-table { width: 400px; } --> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 40851	From: Jimmy McHaney	Date: 6/12/2009
Subject: Re: Winter in Louisiana

You beat me to it. Dat gum tennis. Sent from my iPod Jimmy On Jun 11, 2009, at 10:00 PM, "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@...> wrote: IT WAS JIMMY!!!! Whew... I threw him under the bus quick! LOL Yeah.. we did have a little snow down here in the middle of December 2008 also but still nothing like in 1989 when N'Awlins stayed below freezing for three days straight and pipes were busting in homes all over the place. I don't remember how many inches of snow that we had during that three day period but there were snow drifts at least a foot high in some areas. Yeah, I know the dang Yankees out here are laughing at "snow drifts at least a foot high" but that's a LOT of snow for down here. LOL The link to your photo album, "Tawny", is: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife/photos/album/1981798938/pic/list Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of gardengoddesses2 Sent: Thursday, June 11, 2009 9:30 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Winter in Louisiana Hey Jimmy & Lenny. I know that this is a rare thing, but Dec. 11,2008 we had about 3 to 4 inches of snow in Mandeville. I am putting pictures in an album named Tawny-please view them. I am glad I did not have a pond then, I would have been worried about my fish and plants. Our inground pool did not have ice. Oh, Jimmy was it you or Lenny that offered help with the pond? My husband hopes to break ground this weekend or next. Bring your shovels. JUST KIDDING!!LOL. Ya'll help enough with the great info and advice. Thanks. Tawny x 0; overflow: hidden; } #ygrp-msg p#attach-count span { color: #1E66AE; font-weight: bold; } div#ygrp-mlmsg #ygrp-msg p a span.yshortcuts { font-family: Verdana; font-size: 10px; font-weight: normal; } #ygrp-msg p a { font-family: Verdana; font-size: 10px; } #ygrp-mlmsg a { color: #1E66AE; } div.attach-table div div a { text-decoration: none; } div.attach-table { width: 400px; } --> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 40852	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 6/12/2009
Subject: Re: Phosphate test kit and other API test kits

My hubby would kill me if I asked for another fish tank, especially a big reef tank ;) LOL. I already have a KH test kit actually but it's okay to have a spare. I bought a KH and GH test kit a few months back. I plan on getting snails and was considering getting shrimp in the future too, I saw pictures of those blue fan shrimp (they're kind of large but non aggressive and they filter food out of the water with their "fans"). I believe they're wood shrimp. They're slightly spendy but a single shrimp but I think it would be neat to have one in the 125 gallon since it has plenty of room (after I take the catfish in on saturday, I already told them I'll be bringing him in, just as soon as I find my net... I can only find the little one and he definitely outgrew that over a month ago ;) LOL). Amber Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > > > Yep. When the price drops by $5.00, overnight, that is God's way of saying > to BUY IT NOW!!! LOL I just looked at what comes in the kit again and it > has a KH test kit also which is something you can use on a regular > basis as > well. So it's actually a pretty good deal since you'll be getting two kits > that you don't have and need (Phosphate and KH=Carbonate Hardness) and a > Nitrate kit you can use when your current kit runs out. Just don't > open the > Nitrate kit bottles until your current kit runs out or expires (or a year > goes by after first using it). I guess the Calcium kit could be used but > it's not as likely unless you get into having lots of inverts. > > OR... now that you'll have a Master Reef Test Kit, it might be time to set > up a Reef Tank. Isn't there room in that back corner of the living > room for > another tank??? LOL > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right > side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On > Behalf Of Amber Berglund > Sent: Friday, June 12, 2009 10:13 AM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Phosphate test kit and other API test kits > > The reef kit is now on sale for 19.99, I think I'm going to get it instead > of a phosphate only test, I know that API test kits work well enough > and I'm > used to their color charts. I will know which ones are good for both > saltwater and freshwater when they show up I guess ;) > > Amber > > Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > > > > > > Here's the link to the Reef Master Test Kit on MarineDepot.com. > > > > > http://www.marinedepot.com/ps_ViewItem~category~Aquarium_Pharmaceutica > <http://www.marinedepot.com/ps_ViewItem%7Ecategory%7EAquarium_Pharmaceutica> > > ls_Ree > > > <http://www.marinedepot.com/ps_ViewItem%7Ecategory%7EAquarium_Pharmace > <http://www.marinedepot.com/ps_ViewItem%7Ecategory%7EAquarium_Pharmace> > > uticals_Ree> > > f_Master_Test_Kit_Specialty_Test_Kits_for_Saltwater_Aquariums~vendor~A > > quariu m_Pharmaceuticals~idProduct~AP3323~idCategory~FITKSI.html > > > > Presuming the link will break, go to http://www.MarineDepot.com, > <http://www.MarineDepot.com,> > > <http://www.MarineDepot.com, <http://www.MarineDepot.com,>> click on > the Test Kits link on the left > > side. Then click on the Aquarium Pharmaceuticals link. Then scroll > > down to the Reef Test Kit for $24.99 (I'm presuming this is the one > > you were talking about). I also see that the API Nitrate test kit is > > for either FW or SW so maybe there are just different instructions and > > a color card for the SW Nitrate Test Kit that you would not use and > > you would have to use your FW Nitrate Test Kit instructions and color > > card. > > > > I can't help you with brand recommendations since I've never had to > > use a Phosphate Test Kit before. > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>> > (Links to any articles referenced in > > above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels > > and also under Archives by Year, Month) > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On Behalf Of Amber Berglund > > Sent: Thursday, June 11, 2009 11:27 PM > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Phosphate test kit and other API test kits > > > > Well nevermind, I just went to go search for the test kit again and > > now I can't even find it listed on the site, perhaps it was sold out > > or something. > > I still need some suggestions on good brands to get besides API ;) > > They have a seachem multitest for 12.69. > > > > Amber > > > > Amber Berglund wrote: > > > > > > > > > Well I was considering getting the kit because it was a decent price > > > for multiple tests (also comes with a nitrate test, which I already > > have). > > > They don't have the API phosphate test for sale separate on > > > marinedepot.com but they do have some other brands that are > > > phosphate test kits, I just wasn't sure what other brands out there > > > are reliable > > > ;) And thanks for looking that up, I had a feeling that the > > > phosphate test was okay for FW tanks, but wasn't sure about the > > > nitrate or calcium test kits. > > > > > > Amber > > > > > > Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > How much was MarineDepot's Combo kit? I posted a link to > > > > DrsFosterSmith.com earlier in this thread or one of your algae > > > > threads where DFS had > > > the API > > > > Phosphate Test Kit for $8.99. > > > > > > > > The official API website, http://www.aquariumpharm.com > <http://www.aquariumpharm.com> > > <http://www.aquariumpharm.com <http://www.aquariumpharm.com>> > > > <http://www.aquariumpharm.com <http://www.aquariumpharm.com> > <http://www.aquariumpharm.com <http://www.aquariumpharm.com>>> > > > > <http://www.aquariumpharm.com <http://www.aquariumpharm.com> > <http://www.aquariumpharm.com <http://www.aquariumpharm.com>> > > <http://www.aquariumpharm.com <http://www.aquariumpharm.com> > <http://www.aquariumpharm.com <http://www.aquariumpharm.com>>>> on > > > this page > > > > http://www.aquariumpharm.com/Products/Product.aspx?ProductID=212 > <http://www.aquariumpharm.com/Products/Product.aspx?ProductID=212> > > <http://www.aquariumpharm.com/Products/Product.aspx?ProductID=212 > <http://www.aquariumpharm.com/Products/Product.aspx?ProductID=212>> > > > <http://www.aquariumpharm.com/Products/Product.aspx?ProductID=212 > <http://www.aquariumpharm.com/Products/Product.aspx?ProductID=212> > > <http://www.aquariumpharm.com/Products/Product.aspx?ProductID=212 > <http://www.aquariumpharm.com/Products/Product.aspx?ProductID=212>>> > > > > > <http://www.aquariumpharm.com/Products/Product.aspx?ProductID=212 > <http://www.aquariumpharm.com/Products/Product.aspx?ProductID=212> > > <http://www.aquariumpharm.com/Products/Product.aspx?ProductID=212 > <http://www.aquariumpharm.com/Products/Product.aspx?ProductID=212>> > > > <http://www.aquariumpharm.com/Products/Product.aspx?ProductID=212 > <http://www.aquariumpharm.com/Products/Product.aspx?ProductID=212> > > <http://www.aquariumpharm.com/Products/Product.aspx?ProductID=212 > <http://www.aquariumpharm.com/Products/Product.aspx?ProductID=212>>>> > > > > lists all > > > > of their Water Testing kits. Their Phosphate Kit > > > > http://www.aquariumpharm.com/Products/Product.aspx?ProductID=76 > <http://www.aquariumpharm.com/Products/Product.aspx?ProductID=76> > > <http://www.aquariumpharm.com/Products/Product.aspx?ProductID=76 > <http://www.aquariumpharm.com/Products/Product.aspx?ProductID=76>> > > > <http://www.aquariumpharm.com/Products/Product.aspx?ProductID=76 > <http://www.aquariumpharm.com/Products/Product.aspx?ProductID=76> > > <http://www.aquariumpharm.com/Products/Product.aspx?ProductID=76 > <http://www.aquariumpharm.com/Products/Product.aspx?ProductID=76>>> > > > > <http://www.aquariumpharm.com/Products/Product.aspx?ProductID=76 > <http://www.aquariumpharm.com/Products/Product.aspx?ProductID=76> > > <http://www.aquariumpharm.com/Products/Product.aspx?ProductID=76 > <http://www.aquariumpharm.com/Products/Product.aspx?ProductID=76>> > > > <http://www.aquariumpharm.com/Products/Product.aspx?ProductID=76 > <http://www.aquariumpharm.com/Products/Product.aspx?ProductID=76> > > <http://www.aquariumpharm.com/Products/Product.aspx?ProductID=76 > <http://www.aquariumpharm.com/Products/Product.aspx?ProductID=76>>>> > > > says, > > > > "Phosphate can enter your aquarium through tap water, fish waste, > > > > and decaying organics such as uneaten food and dead algae. Excess > > > > phosphate contributes to unsightly algae blooms. This kit tests > > > > phosphate levels from 0 to 10 ppm in fresh and saltwater aquariums." > > > > > > > > So, it appears their Phosphate test kit is suitable for both FW > > and SW. > > > > > > > > The Calcium test kit > > > > http://www.aquariumpharm.com/Products/Product.aspx?ProductID=72 > <http://www.aquariumpharm.com/Products/Product.aspx?ProductID=72> > > <http://www.aquariumpharm.com/Products/Product.aspx?ProductID=72 > <http://www.aquariumpharm.com/Products/Product.aspx?ProductID=72>> > > > <http://www.aquariumpharm.com/Products/Product.aspx?ProductID=72 > <http://www.aquariumpharm.com/Products/Product.aspx?ProductID=72> > > <http://www.aquariumpharm.com/Products/Product.aspx?ProductID=72 > <http://www.aquariumpharm.com/Products/Product.aspx?ProductID=72>>> > > > > <http://www.aquariumpharm.com/Products/Product.aspx?ProductID=72 > <http://www.aquariumpharm.com/Products/Product.aspx?ProductID=72> > > <http://www.aquariumpharm.com/Products/Product.aspx?ProductID=72 > <http://www.aquariumpharm.com/Products/Product.aspx?ProductID=72>> > > > <http://www.aquariumpharm.com/Products/Product.aspx?ProductID=72 > <http://www.aquariumpharm.com/Products/Product.aspx?ProductID=72> > > <http://www.aquariumpharm.com/Products/Product.aspx?ProductID=72 > <http://www.aquariumpharm.com/Products/Product.aspx?ProductID=72>>>> > > > says, > > > > "Calcium is one of the most important elements in a reef aquarium. > > > > Reef invertebrates such as corals, crustaceans, mollusks and even > > > > some > > > types of > > > > encrusting algae need calcium to grow and remain healthy. Over > > > > time, calcium levels drop as invertebrates use calcium in aquarium > water. > > > > This kit allows you to easily and accurately measure calcium > > > > levels and maintain a > > > healthy > > > > reef aquarium. Measures calcium levels as low as 20mg/L. Uses > > > > titration method, with easy to see color change for precise > > > > measurement. For > > > use in > > > > reef aquariums" and the BOX pictured on the webpage says "Salt > Water" > > > > on it > > > > but I don't see anything about FW but I can't imagine the test kit > > > > not being able to test Calcium in FW also. It's just not as > > > > necessary unless > > > one is > > > > raising snails, shrimp or other inverts. > > > > > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>> > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>>> > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>> > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>>>> > > > > (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the > > > > right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by > > > > Year, > > > Month) > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On Behalf Of Amber > > > > Berglund > > > > Sent: Thursday, June 11, 2009 4:13 PM > > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > Subject: [AquaticLife] Phosphate test kit and other API test kits > > > > > > > > Okay I have a question, I am going to place an order on > > > marinedepot.com in > > > > the near future and they don't have a test kit that just tests > > > phosphates, > > > > they only have an API test kit that has a phosphate test included > > > (as well > > > > as calcium), but the test kit is for a reef tank. Are the test > > > > kits interchangeable or can you only use a reef test kit on a > > > > saltwater > > tank? > > > > > > > > Amber > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 40853	From: Tawny Morrow	Date: 6/12/2009
Subject: Re: Winter in Louisiana

Ya'll are too funny.   TAWNY ________________________________ From: Jimmy McHaney <mchaneyjm@...> To: "aquaticlife@yahoogroups.com" <aquaticlife@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Friday, June 12, 2009 11:31:09 AM Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Winter in Louisiana You beat me to it. Dat gum tennis. Sent from my iPod Jimmy On Jun 11, 2009, at 10:00 PM, "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@gmail. com> wrote: IT WAS JIMMY!!!! Whew... I threw him under the bus quick! LOL Yeah.. we did have a little snow down here in the middle of December 2008 also but still nothing like in 1989 when N'Awlins stayed below freezing for three days straight and pipes were busting in homes all over the place. I don't remember how many inches of snow that we had during that three day period but there were snow drifts at least a foot high in some areas. Yeah, I know the dang Yankees out here are laughing at "snow drifts at least a foot high" but that's a LOT of snow for down here. LOL The link to your photo album, "Tawny", is: http://groups. yahoo.com/ group/AquaticLif e/photos/ album/1981798938 /pic/list Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com [mailto:AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com] On Behalf Of gardengoddesses2 Sent: Thursday, June 11, 2009 9:30 PM To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com Subject: [AquaticLife] Winter in Louisiana Hey Jimmy & Lenny. I know that this is a rare thing, but Dec. 11,2008 we had about 3 to 4 inches of snow in Mandeville. I am putting pictures in an album named Tawny-please view them. I am glad I did not have a pond then, I would have been worried about my fish and plants. Our inground pool did not have ice. Oh, Jimmy was it you or Lenny that offered help with the pond? My husband hopes to break ground this weekend or next. Bring your shovels. JUST KIDDING!!LOL. Ya'll help enough with the great info and advice. Thanks. Tawny x 0; overflow: hidden; } #ygrp-msg p#attach-count span { color: #1E66AE; font-weight: bold; } div#ygrp-mlmsg #ygrp-msg p a span.yshortcuts { font-family: Verdana; font-size: 10px; font-weight: normal; } #ygrp-msg p a { font-family: Verdana; font-size: 10px; } #ygrp-mlmsg a { color: #1E66AE; } div.attach-table div div a { text-decoration: none; } div.attach-table { width: 400px; } --> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 40854	From: bill 1433	Date: 6/12/2009
Subject: Re: Phosphate test kit and other API test kits

Sorry,   I lost count about 2 squares back!  Just how many tanks do you have now?   bill --- On Fri, 6/12/09, Amber Berglund <amber@...> wrote: From: Amber Berglund <amber@...> Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Phosphate test kit and other API test kits To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Date: Friday, June 12, 2009, 1:01 PM My hubby would kill me if I asked for another fish tank, especially a big reef tank ;) LOL. I already have a KH test kit actually but it's okay to have a spare. I bought a KH and GH test kit a few months back. I plan on getting snails and was considering getting shrimp in the future too, I saw pictures of those blue fan shrimp (they're kind of large but non aggressive and they filter food out of the water with their "fans"). I believe they're wood shrimp. They're slightly spendy but a single shrimp but I think it would be neat to have one in the 125 gallon since it has plenty of room (after I take the catfish in on saturday, I already told them I'll be bringing him in, just as soon as I find my net... I can only find the little one and he definitely outgrew that over a month ago ;) LOL). Amber Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > > > Yep. When the price drops by $5.00, overnight, that is God's way of saying > to BUY IT NOW!!! LOL I just looked at what comes in the kit again and it > has a KH test kit also which is something you can use on a regular > basis as > well. So it's actually a pretty good deal since you'll be getting two kits > that you don't have and need (Phosphate and KH=Carbonate Hardness) and a > Nitrate kit you can use when your current kit runs out. Just don't > open the > Nitrate kit bottles until your current kit runs out or expires (or a year > goes by after first using it). I guess the Calcium kit could be used but > it's not as likely unless you get into having lots of inverts. > > OR... now that you'll have a Master Reef Test Kit, it might be time to set > up a Reef Tank. Isn't there room in that back corner of the living > room for > another tank??? LOL > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right > side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On > Behalf Of Amber Berglund > Sent: Friday, June 12, 2009 10:13 AM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Phosphate test kit and other API test kits > > The reef kit is now on sale for 19.99, I think I'm going to get it instead > of a phosphate only test, I know that API test kits work well enough > and I'm > used to their color charts. I will know which ones are good for both > saltwater and freshwater when they show up I guess ;) > > Amber > > Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > > > > > > Here's the link to the Reef Master Test Kit on MarineDepot.com. > > > > > http://www.marinedepot.com/ps_ViewItem~category~Aquarium_Pharmaceutica > <http://www.marinedepot.com/ps_ViewItem%7Ecategory%7EAquarium_Pharmaceutica> > > ls_Ree > > > <http://www.marinedepot.com/ps_ViewItem%7Ecategory%7EAquarium_Pharmace > <http://www.marinedepot.com/ps_ViewItem%7Ecategory%7EAquarium_Pharmace> > > uticals_Ree> > > f_Master_Test_Kit_Specialty_Test_Kits_for_Saltwater_Aquariums~vendor~A > > quariu m_Pharmaceuticals~idProduct~AP3323~idCategory~FITKSI.html > > > > Presuming the link will break, go to http://www.MarineDepot.com, > <http://www.MarineDepot.com,> > > <http://www.MarineDepot.com, <http://www.MarineDepot.com,>> click on > the Test Kits link on the left > > side. Then click on the Aquarium Pharmaceuticals link. Then scroll > > down to the Reef Test Kit for $24.99 (I'm presuming this is the one > > you were talking about). I also see that the API Nitrate test kit is > > for either FW or SW so maybe there are just different instructions and > > a color card for the SW Nitrate Test Kit that you would not use and > > you would have to use your FW Nitrate Test Kit instructions and color > > card. > > > > I can't help you with brand recommendations since I've never had to > > use a Phosphate Test Kit before. > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>> > (Links to any articles referenced in > > above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels > > and also under Archives by Year, Month) > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On Behalf Of Amber Berglund > > Sent: Thursday, June 11, 2009 11:27 PM > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Phosphate test kit and other API test kits > > > > Well nevermind, I just went to go search for the test kit again and > > now I can't even find it listed on the site, perhaps it was sold out > > or something. > > I still need some suggestions on good brands to get besides API ;) > > They have a seachem multitest for 12.69. > > > > Amber > > > > Amber Berglund wrote: > > > > > > > > > Well I was considering getting the kit because it was a decent price > > > for multiple tests (also comes with a nitrate test, which I already > > have). > > > They don't have the API phosphate test for sale separate on > > > marinedepot.com but they do have some other brands that are > > > phosphate test kits, I just wasn't sure what other brands out there > > > are reliable > > > ;) And thanks for looking that up, I had a feeling that the > > > phosphate test was okay for FW tanks, but wasn't sure about the > > > nitrate or calcium test kits. > > > > > > Amber > > > > > > Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > How much was MarineDepot's Combo kit? I posted a link to > > > > DrsFosterSmith.com earlier in this thread or one of your algae > > > > threads where DFS had > > > the API > > > > Phosphate Test Kit for $8.99. > > > > > > > > The official API website, http://www.aquariumpharm.com > <http://www.aquariumpharm.com> > > <http://www.aquariumpharm.com <http://www.aquariumpharm.com>> > > > <http://www.aquariumpharm.com <http://www.aquariumpharm.com> > <http://www.aquariumpharm.com <http://www.aquariumpharm.com>>> > > > > <http://www.aquariumpharm.com <http://www.aquariumpharm.com> > <http://www.aquariumpharm.com <http://www.aquariumpharm.com>> > > <http://www.aquariumpharm.com <http://www.aquariumpharm.com> > <http://www.aquariumpharm.com <http://www.aquariumpharm.com>>>> on > > > this page > > > > http://www.aquariumpharm.com/Products/Product.aspx?ProductID=212 > <http://www.aquariumpharm.com/Products/Product.aspx?ProductID=212> > > <http://www.aquariumpharm.com/Products/Product.aspx?ProductID=212 > <http://www.aquariumpharm.com/Products/Product.aspx?ProductID=212>> > > > <http://www.aquariumpharm.com/Products/Product.aspx?ProductID=212 > <http://www.aquariumpharm.com/Products/Product.aspx?ProductID=212> > > <http://www.aquariumpharm.com/Products/Product.aspx?ProductID=212 > <http://www.aquariumpharm.com/Products/Product.aspx?ProductID=212>>> > > > > > <http://www.aquariumpharm.com/Products/Product.aspx?ProductID=212 > <http://www.aquariumpharm.com/Products/Product.aspx?ProductID=212> > > <http://www.aquariumpharm.com/Products/Product.aspx?ProductID=212 > <http://www.aquariumpharm.com/Products/Product.aspx?ProductID=212>> > > > <http://www.aquariumpharm.com/Products/Product.aspx?ProductID=212 > <http://www.aquariumpharm.com/Products/Product.aspx?ProductID=212> > > <http://www.aquariumpharm.com/Products/Product.aspx?ProductID=212 > <http://www.aquariumpharm.com/Products/Product.aspx?ProductID=212>>>> > > > > lists all > > > > of their Water Testing kits. Their Phosphate Kit > > > > http://www.aquariumpharm.com/Products/Product.aspx?ProductID=76 > <http://www.aquariumpharm.com/Products/Product.aspx?ProductID=76> > > <http://www.aquariumpharm.com/Products/Product.aspx?ProductID=76 > <http://www.aquariumpharm.com/Products/Product.aspx?ProductID=76>> > > > <http://www.aquariumpharm.com/Products/Product.aspx?ProductID=76 > <http://www.aquariumpharm.com/Products/Product.aspx?ProductID=76> > > <http://www.aquariumpharm.com/Products/Product.aspx?ProductID=76 > <http://www.aquariumpharm.com/Products/Product.aspx?ProductID=76>>> > > > > <http://www.aquariumpharm.com/Products/Product.aspx?ProductID=76 > <http://www.aquariumpharm.com/Products/Product.aspx?ProductID=76> > > <http://www.aquariumpharm.com/Products/Product.aspx?ProductID=76 > <http://www.aquariumpharm.com/Products/Product.aspx?ProductID=76>> > > > <http://www.aquariumpharm.com/Products/Product.aspx?ProductID=76 > <http://www.aquariumpharm.com/Products/Product.aspx?ProductID=76> > > <http://www.aquariumpharm.com/Products/Product.aspx?ProductID=76 > <http://www.aquariumpharm.com/Products/Product.aspx?ProductID=76>>>> > > > says, > > > > "Phosphate can enter your aquarium through tap water, fish waste, > > > > and decaying organics such as uneaten food and dead algae. Excess > > > > phosphate contributes to unsightly algae blooms. This kit tests > > > > phosphate levels from 0 to 10 ppm in fresh and saltwater aquariums." > > > > > > > > So, it appears their Phosphate test kit is suitable for both FW > > and SW. > > > > > > > > The Calcium test kit > > > > http://www.aquariumpharm.com/Products/Product.aspx?ProductID=72 > <http://www.aquariumpharm.com/Products/Product.aspx?ProductID=72> > > <http://www.aquariumpharm.com/Products/Product.aspx?ProductID=72 > <http://www.aquariumpharm.com/Products/Product.aspx?ProductID=72>> > > > <http://www.aquariumpharm.com/Products/Product.aspx?ProductID=72 > <http://www.aquariumpharm.com/Products/Product.aspx?ProductID=72> > > <http://www.aquariumpharm.com/Products/Product.aspx?ProductID=72 > <http://www.aquariumpharm.com/Products/Product.aspx?ProductID=72>>> > > > > <http://www.aquariumpharm.com/Products/Product.aspx?ProductID=72 > <http://www.aquariumpharm.com/Products/Product.aspx?ProductID=72> > > <http://www.aquariumpharm.com/Products/Product.aspx?ProductID=72 > <http://www.aquariumpharm.com/Products/Product.aspx?ProductID=72>> > > > <http://www.aquariumpharm.com/Products/Product.aspx?ProductID=72 > <http://www.aquariumpharm.com/Products/Product.aspx?ProductID=72> > > <http://www.aquariumpharm.com/Products/Product.aspx?ProductID=72 > <http://www.aquariumpharm.com/Products/Product.aspx?ProductID=72>>>> > > > says, > > > > "Calcium is one of the most important elements in a reef aquarium. > > > > Reef invertebrates such as corals, crustaceans, mollusks and even > > > > some > > > types of > > > > encrusting algae need calcium to grow and remain healthy. Over > > > > time, calcium levels drop as invertebrates use calcium in aquarium > water. > > > > This kit allows you to easily and accurately measure calcium > > > > levels and maintain a > > > healthy > > > > reef aquarium. Measures calcium levels as low as 20mg/L. Uses > > > > titration method, with easy to see color change for precise > > > > measurement. For > > > use in > > > > reef aquariums" and the BOX pictured on the webpage says "Salt > Water" > > > > on it > > > > but I don't see anything about FW but I can't imagine the test kit > > > > not being able to test Calcium in FW also. It's just not as > > > > necessary unless > > > one is > > > > raising snails, shrimp or other inverts. > > > > > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>> > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>>> > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>> > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>>>> > > > > (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the > > > > right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by > > > > Year, > > > Month) > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On Behalf Of Amber > > > > Berglund > > > > Sent: Thursday, June 11, 2009 4:13 PM > > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > Subject: [AquaticLife] Phosphate test kit and other API test kits > > > > > > > > Okay I have a question, I am going to place an order on > > > marinedepot.com in > > > > the near future and they don't have a test kit that just tests > > > phosphates, > > > > they only have an API test kit that has a phosphate test included > > > (as well > > > > as calcium), but the test kit is for a reef tank. Are the test > > > > kits interchangeable or can you only use a reef test kit on a > > > > saltwater > > tank? > > > > > > > > Amber > > ------------------------------------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. 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Group: AquaticLife	Message: 40855	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 6/12/2009
Subject: Re: Phosphate test kit and other API test kits

Now the question is, how many of them have fish in them ;) I have 4 tanks with current inhabitants, a 55 gallon empty to put my angel's into when the stand is finished being built (still waiting somewhat impatiently on that one). And a spare 10 gallon for a QT tank, so in total I have 6 tanks, but 2 are empty... for now ;) I have a 10 gallon with guppy fry in it, and a 10 gallon with a dwarf frog and a betta. then I have a 55 gallon community tank, and a 125 gallon with mixed community and a couple semi aggressive (not counting the angel's which will hopefully be moved soon, and the catfish is definitely going back to the fish store). Speaking of that catfish I must be feeding him well enough... he hasn't eaten any of the platy fry that are starting to get bigger, and I'd think they'd be easy to spot since they're orange platy's ;) LOL. The fry are maybe 2-3 weeks old from the look of them, cute little guys, maybe 3 of them, one is solid orange and then I have a orange/white baby, and one baby that looks mostly white so far, will have to see how the colors turn out. I have adult platy's in different colors so I'm not sure which ones were the parents. I'm guessing my fat little orange/white platy was the mom though, as she's not so fat anymore ;). My favorite platy's are the orange/black ones, my female hasn't fully matured yet though, she's my only orange/black one. I'm hoping to find hillstream loach fry in the tank some day, but I won't know unless I start lifting all the ornaments and moving them around, as I have read that they hide under rocks and ornaments until they're bigger (maybe half inch sized). Now don't go asking for a list of every fish I have as that'll be a long list ;) Amber bill 1433 wrote: > > > > Sorry, > > I lost count about 2 squares back! Just how many tanks do you have now? > > bill > > --- On Fri, 6/12/09, Amber Berglund <amber@... > <mailto:amber%40rose-fields.com>> wrote: > > From: Amber Berglund <amber@... > <mailto:amber%40rose-fields.com>> > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Phosphate test kit and other API test kits > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Date: Friday, June 12, 2009, 1:01 PM > > My hubby would kill me if I asked for another fish tank, especially a > big reef tank ;) LOL. > I already have a KH test kit actually but it's okay to have a spare. I > bought a KH and GH test kit a few months back. I plan on getting snails > and was considering getting shrimp in the future too, I saw pictures of > those blue fan shrimp (they're kind of large but non aggressive and they > filter food out of the water with their "fans"). I believe they're wood > shrimp. They're slightly spendy but a single shrimp but I think it would > be neat to have one in the 125 gallon since it has plenty of room (after > I take the catfish in on saturday, I already told them I'll be bringing > him in, just as soon as I find my net... I can only find the little one > and he definitely outgrew that over a month ago ;) LOL). > > Amber > > Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > > > > > > Yep. When the price drops by $5.00, overnight, that is God's way of > saying > > to BUY IT NOW!!! LOL I just looked at what comes in the kit again and it > > has a KH test kit also which is something you can use on a regular > > basis as > > well. So it's actually a pretty good deal since you'll be getting > two kits > > that you don't have and need (Phosphate and KH=Carbonate Hardness) and a > > Nitrate kit you can use when your current kit runs out. Just don't > > open the > > Nitrate kit bottles until your current kit runs out or expires (or a > year > > goes by after first using it). I guess the Calcium kit could be used but > > it's not as likely unless you get into having lots of inverts. > > > > OR... now that you'll have a Master Reef Test Kit, it might be time > to set > > up a Reef Tank. Isn't there room in that back corner of the living > > room for > > another tank??? LOL > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>> > > (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right > > side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, > Month) > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On > > Behalf Of Amber Berglund > > Sent: Friday, June 12, 2009 10:13 AM > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Phosphate test kit and other API test kits > > > > The reef kit is now on sale for 19.99, I think I'm going to get it > instead > > of a phosphate only test, I know that API test kits work well enough > > and I'm > > used to their color charts. I will know which ones are good for both > > saltwater and freshwater when they show up I guess ;) > > > > Amber > > > > Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > > > > > > > > > Here's the link to the Reef Master Test Kit on MarineDepot.com. > > > > > > > > > http://www.marinedepot.com/ps_ViewItem~category~Aquarium_Pharmaceutica > <http://www.marinedepot.com/ps_ViewItem%7Ecategory%7EAquarium_Pharmaceutica> > > > > <http://www.marinedepot.com/ps_ViewItem%7Ecategory%7EAquarium_Pharmaceutica > <http://www.marinedepot.com/ps_ViewItem%7Ecategory%7EAquarium_Pharmaceutica>> > > > ls_Ree > > > > > > <http://www.marinedepot.com/ps_ViewItem%7Ecategory%7EAquarium_Pharmace > <http://www.marinedepot.com/ps_ViewItem%7Ecategory%7EAquarium_Pharmace> > > > <http://www.marinedepot.com/ps_ViewItem%7Ecategory%7EAquarium_Pharmace > <http://www.marinedepot.com/ps_ViewItem%7Ecategory%7EAquarium_Pharmace>> > > > uticals_Ree> > > > f_Master_Test_Kit_Specialty_Test_Kits_for_Saltwater_Aquariums~vendor~A > > > quariu m_Pharmaceuticals~idProduct~AP3323~idCategory~FITKSI.html > > > > > > Presuming the link will break, go to http://www.MarineDepot.com, > <http://www.MarineDepot.com,> > > <http://www.MarineDepot.com, <http://www.MarineDepot.com,>> > > > <http://www.MarineDepot.com, <http://www.MarineDepot.com,> > <http://www.MarineDepot.com, <http://www.MarineDepot.com,>>> click on > > the Test Kits link on the left > > > side. Then click on the Aquarium Pharmaceuticals link. Then scroll > > > down to the Reef Test Kit for $24.99 (I'm presuming this is the one > > > you were talking about). I also see that the API Nitrate test kit is > > > for either FW or SW so maybe there are just different instructions and > > > a color card for the SW Nitrate Test Kit that you would not use and > > > you would have to use your FW Nitrate Test Kit instructions and color > > > card. > > > > > > I can't help you with brand recommendations since I've never had to > > > use a Phosphate Test Kit before. > > > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>> > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>>> > > (Links to any articles referenced in > > > above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels > > > and also under Archives by Year, Month) > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On Behalf Of Amber Berglund > > > Sent: Thursday, June 11, 2009 11:27 PM > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Phosphate test kit and other API test kits > > > > > > Well nevermind, I just went to go search for the test kit again and > > > now I can't even find it listed on the site, perhaps it was sold out > > > or something. > > > I still need some suggestions on good brands to get besides API ;) > > > They have a seachem multitest for 12.69. > > > > > > Amber > > > > > > Amber Berglund wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > Well I was considering getting the kit because it was a decent price > > > > for multiple tests (also comes with a nitrate test, which I already > > > have). > > > > They don't have the API phosphate test for sale separate on > > > > marinedepot.com but they do have some other brands that are > > > > phosphate test kits, I just wasn't sure what other brands out there > > > > are reliable > > > > ;) And thanks for looking that up, I had a feeling that the > > > > phosphate test was okay for FW tanks, but wasn't sure about the > > > > nitrate or calcium test kits. > > > > > > > > Amber > > > > > > > > Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > How much was MarineDepot's Combo kit? I posted a link to > > > > > DrsFosterSmith.com earlier in this thread or one of your algae > > > > > threads where DFS had > > > > the API > > > > > Phosphate Test Kit for $8.99. > > > > > > > > > > The official API website, http://www.aquariumpharm.com > <http://www.aquariumpharm.com> > > <http://www.aquariumpharm.com <http://www.aquariumpharm.com>> > > > <http://www.aquariumpharm.com <http://www.aquariumpharm.com> > <http://www.aquariumpharm.com <http://www.aquariumpharm.com>>> > > > > <http://www.aquariumpharm.com <http://www.aquariumpharm.com> > <http://www.aquariumpharm.com <http://www.aquariumpharm.com>> > > <http://www.aquariumpharm.com <http://www.aquariumpharm.com> > <http://www.aquariumpharm.com <http://www.aquariumpharm.com>>>> > > > > > <http://www.aquariumpharm.com <http://www.aquariumpharm.com> > <http://www.aquariumpharm.com <http://www.aquariumpharm.com>> > > <http://www.aquariumpharm.com <http://www.aquariumpharm.com> > <http://www.aquariumpharm.com <http://www.aquariumpharm.com>>> > > > <http://www.aquariumpharm.com <http://www.aquariumpharm.com> > <http://www.aquariumpharm.com <http://www.aquariumpharm.com>> > > <http://www.aquariumpharm.com <http://www.aquariumpharm.com> > <http://www.aquariumpharm.com <http://www.aquariumpharm.com>>>>> on > > > > this page > > > > > > http://www.aquariumpharm.com/Products/Product.aspx?ProductID=212 > <http://www.aquariumpharm.com/Products/Product.aspx?ProductID=212> > > <http://www.aquariumpharm.com/Products/Product.aspx?ProductID=212 > <http://www.aquariumpharm.com/Products/Product.aspx?ProductID=212>> > > > <http://www.aquariumpharm.com/Products/Product.aspx?ProductID=212 > <http://www.aquariumpharm.com/Products/Product.aspx?ProductID=212> > > <http://www.aquariumpharm.com/Products/Product.aspx?ProductID=212 > <http://www.aquariumpharm.com/Products/Product.aspx?ProductID=212>>> > > > > > <http://www.aquariumpharm.com/Products/Product.aspx?ProductID=212 > <http://www.aquariumpharm.com/Products/Product.aspx?ProductID=212> > > <http://www.aquariumpharm.com/Products/Product.aspx?ProductID=212 > <http://www.aquariumpharm.com/Products/Product.aspx?ProductID=212>> > > > <http://www.aquariumpharm.com/Products/Product.aspx?ProductID=212 > <http://www.aquariumpharm.com/Products/Product.aspx?ProductID=212> > > <http://www.aquariumpharm.com/Products/Product.aspx?ProductID=212 > <http://www.aquariumpharm.com/Products/Product.aspx?ProductID=212>>>> > > > > > > > <http://www.aquariumpharm.com/Products/Product.aspx?ProductID=212 > <http://www.aquariumpharm.com/Products/Product.aspx?ProductID=212> > > <http://www.aquariumpharm.com/Products/Product.aspx?ProductID=212 > <http://www.aquariumpharm.com/Products/Product.aspx?ProductID=212>> > > > <http://www.aquariumpharm.com/Products/Product.aspx?ProductID=212 > <http://www.aquariumpharm.com/Products/Product.aspx?ProductID=212> > > <http://www.aquariumpharm.com/Products/Product.aspx?ProductID=212 > <http://www.aquariumpharm.com/Products/Product.aspx?ProductID=212>>> > > > > > <http://www.aquariumpharm.com/Products/Product.aspx?ProductID=212 > <http://www.aquariumpharm.com/Products/Product.aspx?ProductID=212> > > <http://www.aquariumpharm.com/Products/Product.aspx?ProductID=212 > <http://www.aquariumpharm.com/Products/Product.aspx?ProductID=212>> > > > <http://www.aquariumpharm.com/Products/Product.aspx?ProductID=212 > <http://www.aquariumpharm.com/Products/Product.aspx?ProductID=212> > > <http://www.aquariumpharm.com/Products/Product.aspx?ProductID=212 > <http://www.aquariumpharm.com/Products/Product.aspx?ProductID=212>>>>> > > > > > lists all > > > > > of their Water Testing kits. Their Phosphate Kit > > > > > > http://www.aquariumpharm.com/Products/Product.aspx?ProductID=76 > <http://www.aquariumpharm.com/Products/Product.aspx?ProductID=76> > > <http://www.aquariumpharm.com/Products/Product.aspx?ProductID=76 > <http://www.aquariumpharm.com/Products/Product.aspx?ProductID=76>> > > > <http://www.aquariumpharm.com/Products/Product.aspx?ProductID=76 > <http://www.aquariumpharm.com/Products/Product.aspx?ProductID=76> > > <http://www.aquariumpharm.com/Products/Product.aspx?ProductID=76 > <http://www.aquariumpharm.com/Products/Product.aspx?ProductID=76>>> > > > > <http://www.aquariumpharm.com/Products/Product.aspx?ProductID=76 > <http://www.aquariumpharm.com/Products/Product.aspx?ProductID=76> > > <http://www.aquariumpharm.com/Products/Product.aspx?ProductID=76 > <http://www.aquariumpharm.com/Products/Product.aspx?ProductID=76>> > > > <http://www.aquariumpharm.com/Products/Product.aspx?ProductID=76 > <http://www.aquariumpharm.com/Products/Product.aspx?ProductID=76> > > <http://www.aquariumpharm.com/Products/Product.aspx?ProductID=76 > <http://www.aquariumpharm.com/Products/Product.aspx?ProductID=76>>>> > > > > > > <http://www.aquariumpharm.com/Products/Product.aspx?ProductID=76 > <http://www.aquariumpharm.com/Products/Product.aspx?ProductID=76> > > <http://www.aquariumpharm.com/Products/Product.aspx?ProductID=76 > <http://www.aquariumpharm.com/Products/Product.aspx?ProductID=76>> > > > <http://www.aquariumpharm.com/Products/Product.aspx?ProductID=76 > <http://www.aquariumpharm.com/Products/Product.aspx?ProductID=76> > > <http://www.aquariumpharm.com/Products/Product.aspx?ProductID=76 > <http://www.aquariumpharm.com/Products/Product.aspx?ProductID=76>>> > > > > <http://www.aquariumpharm.com/Products/Product.aspx?ProductID=76 > <http://www.aquariumpharm.com/Products/Product.aspx?ProductID=76> > > <http://www.aquariumpharm.com/Products/Product.aspx?ProductID=76 > <http://www.aquariumpharm.com/Products/Product.aspx?ProductID=76>> > > > <http://www.aquariumpharm.com/Products/Product.aspx?ProductID=76 > <http://www.aquariumpharm.com/Products/Product.aspx?ProductID=76> > > <http://www.aquariumpharm.com/Products/Product.aspx?ProductID=76 > <http://www.aquariumpharm.com/Products/Product.aspx?ProductID=76>>>>> > > > > says, > > > > > "Phosphate can enter your aquarium through tap water, fish waste, > > > > > and decaying organics such as uneaten food and dead algae. Excess > > > > > phosphate contributes to unsightly algae blooms. This kit tests > > > > > phosphate levels from 0 to 10 ppm in fresh and saltwater > aquariums." > > > > > > > > > > So, it appears their Phosphate test kit is suitable for both FW > > > and SW. > > > > > > > > > > The Calcium test kit > > > > > > http://www.aquariumpharm.com/Products/Product.aspx?ProductID=72 > <http://www.aquariumpharm.com/Products/Product.aspx?ProductID=72> > > <http://www.aquariumpharm.com/Products/Product.aspx?ProductID=72 > <http://www.aquariumpharm.com/Products/Product.aspx?ProductID=72>> > > > <http://www.aquariumpharm.com/Products/Product.aspx?ProductID=72 > <http://www.aquariumpharm.com/Products/Product.aspx?ProductID=72> > > <http://www.aquariumpharm.com/Products/Product.aspx?ProductID=72 > <http://www.aquariumpharm.com/Products/Product.aspx?ProductID=72>>> > > > > <http://www.aquariumpharm.com/Products/Product.aspx?ProductID=72 > <http://www.aquariumpharm.com/Products/Product.aspx?ProductID=72> > > <http://www.aquariumpharm.com/Products/Product.aspx?ProductID=72 > <http://www.aquariumpharm.com/Products/Product.aspx?ProductID=72>> > > > <http://www.aquariumpharm.com/Products/Product.aspx?ProductID=72 > <http://www.aquariumpharm.com/Products/Product.aspx?ProductID=72> > > <http://www.aquariumpharm.com/Products/Product.aspx?ProductID=72 > <http://www.aquariumpharm.com/Products/Product.aspx?ProductID=72>>>> > > > > > > <http://www.aquariumpharm.com/Products/Product.aspx?ProductID=72 > <http://www.aquariumpharm.com/Products/Product.aspx?ProductID=72> > > <http://www.aquariumpharm.com/Products/Product.aspx?ProductID=72 > <http://www.aquariumpharm.com/Products/Product.aspx?ProductID=72>> > > > <http://www.aquariumpharm.com/Products/Product.aspx?ProductID=72 > <http://www.aquariumpharm.com/Products/Product.aspx?ProductID=72> > > <http://www.aquariumpharm.com/Products/Product.aspx?ProductID=72 > <http://www.aquariumpharm.com/Products/Product.aspx?ProductID=72>>> > > > > <http://www.aquariumpharm.com/Products/Product.aspx?ProductID=72 > <http://www.aquariumpharm.com/Products/Product.aspx?ProductID=72> > > <http://www.aquariumpharm.com/Products/Product.aspx?ProductID=72 > <http://www.aquariumpharm.com/Products/Product.aspx?ProductID=72>> > > > <http://www.aquariumpharm.com/Products/Product.aspx?ProductID=72 > <http://www.aquariumpharm.com/Products/Product.aspx?ProductID=72> > > <http://www.aquariumpharm.com/Products/Product.aspx?ProductID=72 > <http://www.aquariumpharm.com/Products/Product.aspx?ProductID=72>>>>> > > > > says, > > > > > "Calcium is one of the most important elements in a reef aquarium. > > > > > Reef invertebrates such as corals, crustaceans, mollusks and even > > > > > some > > > > types of > > > > > encrusting algae need calcium to grow and remain healthy. Over > > > > > time, calcium levels drop as invertebrates use calcium in aquarium > > water. > > > > > This kit allows you to easily and accurately measure calcium > > > > > levels and maintain a > > > > healthy > > > > > reef aquarium. Measures calcium levels as low as 20mg/L. Uses > > > > > titration method, with easy to see color change for precise > > > > > measurement. For > > > > use in > > > > > reef aquariums" and the BOX pictured on the webpage says "Salt > > Water" > > > > > on it > > > > > but I don't see anything about FW but I can't imagine the test kit > > > > > not being able to test Calcium in FW also. It's just not as > > > > > necessary unless > > > > one is > > > > > raising snails, shrimp or other inverts. > > > > > > > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > > > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>> > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>>> > > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>> > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>>>> > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>> > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>>> > > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>> > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>>>>> > > > > > (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the > > > > > right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by > > > > > Year, > > > > Month) > > > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On Behalf Of Amber > > > > > Berglund > > > > > Sent: Thursday, June 11, 2009 4:13 PM > > > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > Subject: [AquaticLife] Phosphate test kit and other API test kits > > > > > > > > > > Okay I have a question, I am going to place an order on > > > > marinedepot.com in > > > > > the near future and they don't have a test kit that just tests > > > > phosphates, > > > > > they only have an API test kit that has a phosphate test included > > > > (as well > > > > > as calcium), but the test kit is for a reef tank. Are the test > > > > > kits interchangeable or can you only use a reef test kit on a > > > > > saltwater > > > tank? > > > > > > > > > > Amber > > > > > > ------------------------------------ > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. > ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> > PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT > important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message > MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- > <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. > > If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of unsubscribing, > you can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My > Membership" on the home page. > > Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:aquaticlife-digest%40yahoogroups.com> to receive the digest, > which includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email > > Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:aquaticlife-nomail%40yahoogroups.com> for the No E-Mail option > where you will still be able to read messages on the group and post > replies. > > Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:aquaticlife-normal%40yahoogroups.com> to receive individual > e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 40856	From: bruce cohen	Date: 6/12/2009
Subject: Re: Phosphate test kit and other API test kits

i would not use api kits as far as phosphate or nitrate as they are not as accurate as  salvert or elos  somethings are best not  taken for granted and this is one of them even though the api kits are ok  they are not as  good or accurate as the salvert or elos and both of them can be purchaced through marinedepot.com  even though the price is higher then api the accuracy is there and they are easy to use as well . --- On Fri, 6/12/09, bill 1433 <warrenprint@...> wrote: From: bill 1433 <warrenprint@...> Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Phosphate test kit and other API test kits To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Date: Friday, June 12, 2009, 10:54 AM Sorry,   I lost count about 2 squares back!  Just how many tanks do you have now?   bill --- On Fri, 6/12/09, Amber Berglund <amber@rose-fields. com> wrote: From: Amber Berglund <amber@rose-fields. com> Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Phosphate test kit and other API test kits To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com Date: Friday, June 12, 2009, 1:01 PM My hubby would kill me if I asked for another fish tank, especially a big reef tank ;) LOL. I already have a KH test kit actually but it's okay to have a spare. I bought a KH and GH test kit a few months back. I plan on getting snails and was considering getting shrimp in the future too, I saw pictures of those blue fan shrimp (they're kind of large but non aggressive and they filter food out of the water with their "fans"). I believe they're wood shrimp. They're slightly spendy but a single shrimp but I think it would be neat to have one in the 125 gallon since it has plenty of room (after I take the catfish in on saturday, I already told them I'll be bringing him in, just as soon as I find my net... I can only find the little one and he definitely outgrew that over a month ago ;) LOL). Amber Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > > > Yep. When the price drops by $5.00, overnight, that is God's way of saying > to BUY IT NOW!!! LOL I just looked at what comes in the kit again and it > has a KH test kit also which is something you can use on a regular > basis as > well. So it's actually a pretty good deal since you'll be getting two kits > that you don't have and need (Phosphate and KH=Carbonate Hardness) and a > Nitrate kit you can use when your current kit runs out. Just don't > open the > Nitrate kit bottles until your current kit runs out or expires (or a year > goes by after first using it). I guess the Calcium kit could be used but > it's not as likely unless you get into having lots of inverts. > > OR... now that you'll have a Master Reef Test Kit, it might be time to set > up a Reef Tank. Isn't there room in that back corner of the living > room for > another tank??? LOL > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com <http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com> > (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right > side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com > <mailto:AquaticLife %40yahoogroups. com> > [mailto:AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com > <mailto:AquaticLife %40yahoogroups. com>] On > Behalf Of Amber Berglund > Sent: Friday, June 12, 2009 10:13 AM > To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com <mailto:AquaticLife %40yahoogroups. com> > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Phosphate test kit and other API test kits > > The reef kit is now on sale for 19.99, I think I'm going to get it instead > of a phosphate only test, I know that API test kits work well enough > and I'm > used to their color charts. I will know which ones are good for both > saltwater and freshwater when they show up I guess ;) > > Amber > > Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > > > > > > Here's the link to the Reef Master Test Kit on MarineDepot. com. > > > > > http://www.marinede pot.com/ps_ ViewItem~ category~ Aquarium_ Pharmaceutica > <http://www.marinede pot.com/ps_ ViewItem% 7Ecategory% 7EAquarium_ Pharmaceutica> > > ls_Ree > > > <http://www.marinede pot.com/ps_ ViewItem% 7Ecategory% 7EAquarium_ Pharmace > <http://www.marinede pot.com/ps_ ViewItem% 7Ecategory% 7EAquarium_ Pharmace> > > uticals_Ree> > > f_Master_Test_ Kit_Specialty_ Test_Kits_ for_Saltwater_ Aquariums~ vendor~A > > quariu m_Pharmaceuticals~ idProduct~ AP3323~idCategor y~FITKSI. html > > > > Presuming the link will break, go to http://www.MarineDe pot.com, > <http://www.MarineDe pot.com,> > > <http://www.MarineDe pot.com, <http://www.MarineDe pot.com,>> click on > the Test Kits link on the left > > side. Then click on the Aquarium Pharmaceuticals link. Then scroll > > down to the Reef Test Kit for $24.99 (I'm presuming this is the one > > you were talking about). I also see that the API Nitrate test kit is > > for either FW or SW so maybe there are just different instructions and > > a color card for the SW Nitrate Test Kit that you would not use and > > you would have to use your FW Nitrate Test Kit instructions and color > > card. > > > > I can't help you with brand recommendations since I've never had to > > use a Phosphate Test Kit before. > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com > <http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com> > > <http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com <http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com>> > (Links to any articles referenced in > > above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels > > and also under Archives by Year, Month) > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com <mailto:AquaticLife %40yahoogroups. com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife %40yahoogroups. com> > > [mailto:AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com > <mailto:AquaticLife %40yahoogroups. com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife %40yahoogroups. com>] On Behalf Of Amber Berglund > > Sent: Thursday, June 11, 2009 11:27 PM > > To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com > <mailto:AquaticLife %40yahoogroups. com> > <mailto:AquaticLife %40yahoogroups. com> > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Phosphate test kit and other API test kits > > > > Well nevermind, I just went to go search for the test kit again and > > now I can't even find it listed on the site, perhaps it was sold out > > or something. > > I still need some suggestions on good brands to get besides API ;) > > They have a seachem multitest for 12.69. > > > > Amber > > > > Amber Berglund wrote: > > > > > > > > > Well I was considering getting the kit because it was a decent price > > > for multiple tests (also comes with a nitrate test, which I already > > have). > > > They don't have the API phosphate test for sale separate on > > > marinedepot. com but they do have some other brands that are > > > phosphate test kits, I just wasn't sure what other brands out there > > > are reliable > > > ;) And thanks for looking that up, I had a feeling that the > > > phosphate test was okay for FW tanks, but wasn't sure about the > > > nitrate or calcium test kits. > > > > > > Amber > > > > > > Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > How much was MarineDepot' s Combo kit? I posted a link to > > > > DrsFosterSmith. com earlier in this thread or one of your algae > > > > threads where DFS had > > > the API > > > > Phosphate Test Kit for $8.99. > > > > > > > > The official API website, http://www.aquarium pharm.com > <http://www.aquarium pharm.com> > > <http://www.aquarium pharm.com <http://www.aquarium pharm.com>> > > > <http://www.aquarium pharm.com <http://www.aquarium pharm.com> > <http://www.aquarium pharm.com <http://www.aquarium pharm.com>>> > > > > <http://www.aquarium pharm.com <http://www.aquarium pharm.com> > <http://www.aquarium pharm.com <http://www.aquarium pharm.com>> > > <http://www.aquarium pharm.com <http://www.aquarium pharm.com> > <http://www.aquarium pharm.com <http://www.aquarium pharm.com>>>> on > > > this page > > > > http://www.aquarium pharm.com/ Products/ Product.aspx? ProductID= 212 > <http://www.aquarium pharm.com/ Products/ Product.aspx? ProductID= 212> > > <http://www.aquarium pharm.com/ Products/ Product.aspx? ProductID= 212 > <http://www.aquarium pharm.com/ Products/ Product.aspx? ProductID= 212>> > > > <http://www.aquarium pharm.com/ Products/ Product.aspx? ProductID= 212 > <http://www.aquarium pharm.com/ Products/ Product.aspx? ProductID= 212> > > <http://www.aquarium pharm.com/ Products/ Product.aspx? ProductID= 212 > <http://www.aquarium pharm.com/ Products/ Product.aspx? ProductID= 212>>> > > > > > <http://www.aquarium pharm.com/ Products/ Product.aspx? ProductID= 212 > <http://www.aquarium pharm.com/ Products/ Product.aspx? ProductID= 212> > > <http://www.aquarium pharm.com/ Products/ Product.aspx? ProductID= 212 > <http://www.aquarium pharm.com/ Products/ Product.aspx? ProductID= 212>> > > > <http://www.aquarium pharm.com/ Products/ Product.aspx? ProductID= 212 > <http://www.aquarium pharm.com/ Products/ Product.aspx? ProductID= 212> > > <http://www.aquarium pharm.com/ Products/ Product.aspx? ProductID= 212 > <http://www.aquarium pharm.com/ Products/ Product.aspx? ProductID= 212>>>> > > > > lists all > > > > of their Water Testing kits. Their Phosphate Kit > > > > http://www.aquarium pharm.com/ Products/ Product.aspx? ProductID= 76 > <http://www.aquarium pharm.com/ Products/ Product.aspx? ProductID= 76> > > <http://www.aquarium pharm.com/ Products/ Product.aspx? ProductID= 76 > <http://www.aquarium pharm.com/ Products/ Product.aspx? ProductID= 76>> > > > <http://www.aquarium pharm.com/ Products/ Product.aspx? ProductID= 76 > <http://www.aquarium pharm.com/ Products/ Product.aspx? ProductID= 76> > > <http://www.aquarium pharm.com/ Products/ Product.aspx? ProductID= 76 > <http://www.aquarium pharm.com/ Products/ Product.aspx? ProductID= 76>>> > > > > <http://www.aquarium pharm.com/ Products/ Product.aspx? ProductID= 76 > <http://www.aquarium pharm.com/ Products/ Product.aspx? ProductID= 76> > > <http://www.aquarium pharm.com/ Products/ Product.aspx? ProductID= 76 > <http://www.aquarium pharm.com/ Products/ Product.aspx? ProductID= 76>> > > > <http://www.aquarium pharm.com/ Products/ Product.aspx? ProductID= 76 > <http://www.aquarium pharm.com/ Products/ Product.aspx? ProductID= 76> > > <http://www.aquarium pharm.com/ Products/ Product.aspx? ProductID= 76 > <http://www.aquarium pharm.com/ Products/ Product.aspx? ProductID= 76>>>> > > > says, > > > > "Phosphate can enter your aquarium through tap water, fish waste, > > > > and decaying organics such as uneaten food and dead algae. Excess > > > > phosphate contributes to unsightly algae blooms. This kit tests > > > > phosphate levels from 0 to 10 ppm in fresh and saltwater aquariums." > > > > > > > > So, it appears their Phosphate test kit is suitable for both FW > > and SW. > > > > > > > > The Calcium test kit > > > > http://www.aquarium pharm.com/ Products/ Product.aspx? ProductID= 72 > <http://www.aquarium pharm.com/ Products/ Product.aspx? ProductID= 72> > > <http://www.aquarium pharm.com/ Products/ Product.aspx? ProductID= 72 > <http://www.aquarium pharm.com/ Products/ Product.aspx? ProductID= 72>> > > > <http://www.aquarium pharm.com/ Products/ Product.aspx? ProductID= 72 > <http://www.aquarium pharm.com/ Products/ Product.aspx? ProductID= 72> > > <http://www.aquarium pharm.com/ Products/ Product.aspx? ProductID= 72 > <http://www.aquarium pharm.com/ Products/ Product.aspx? ProductID= 72>>> > > > > <http://www.aquarium pharm.com/ Products/ Product.aspx? ProductID= 72 > <http://www.aquarium pharm.com/ Products/ Product.aspx? ProductID= 72> > > <http://www.aquarium pharm.com/ Products/ Product.aspx? ProductID= 72 > <http://www.aquarium pharm.com/ Products/ Product.aspx? ProductID= 72>> > > > <http://www.aquarium pharm.com/ Products/ Product.aspx? ProductID= 72 > <http://www.aquarium pharm.com/ Products/ Product.aspx? ProductID= 72> > > <http://www.aquarium pharm.com/ Products/ Product.aspx? ProductID= 72 > <http://www.aquarium pharm.com/ Products/ Product.aspx? ProductID= 72>>>> > > > says, > > > > "Calcium is one of the most important elements in a reef aquarium. > > > > Reef invertebrates such as corals, crustaceans, mollusks and even > > > > some > > > types of > > > > encrusting algae need calcium to grow and remain healthy. Over > > > > time, calcium levels drop as invertebrates use calcium in aquarium > water. > > > > This kit allows you to easily and accurately measure calcium > > > > levels and maintain a > > > healthy > > > > reef aquarium. Measures calcium levels as low as 20mg/L. Uses > > > > titration method, with easy to see color change for precise > > > > measurement. For > > > use in > > > > reef aquariums" and the BOX pictured on the webpage says "Salt > Water" > > > > on it > > > > but I don't see anything about FW but I can't imagine the test kit > > > > not being able to test Calcium in FW also. It's just not as > > > > necessary unless > > > one is > > > > raising snails, shrimp or other inverts. > > > > > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com > <http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com> > > <http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com <http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com>> > > > <http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com <http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com> > <http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com <http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com>>> > > <http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com <http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com> > <http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com <http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com>> > > > <http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com <http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com> > <http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com <http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com>>>> > > > > (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the > > > > right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by > > > > Year, > > > Month) > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > > From: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com > <mailto:AquaticLife %40yahoogroups. com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife %40yahoogroups. com> > > > <mailto:AquaticLife %40yahoogroups. com> > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife %40yahoogroups. com> > > > > [mailto:AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com > <mailto:AquaticLife %40yahoogroups. com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife %40yahoogroups. com> > > > <mailto:AquaticLife %40yahoogroups. com> > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife %40yahoogroups. com>] On Behalf Of Amber > > > > Berglund > > > > Sent: Thursday, June 11, 2009 4:13 PM > > > > To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com > <mailto:AquaticLife %40yahoogroups. com> > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife %40yahoogroups. com> > > > <mailto:AquaticLife %40yahoogroups. com> > > > <mailto:AquaticLife %40yahoogroups. com> > > > > Subject: [AquaticLife] Phosphate test kit and other API test kits > > > > > > > > Okay I have a question, I am going to place an order on > > > marinedepot. com in > > > > the near future and they don't have a test kit that just tests > > > phosphates, > > > > they only have an API test kit that has a phosphate test included > > > (as well > > > > as calcium), but the test kit is for a reef tank. Are the test > > > > kits interchangeable or can you only use a reef test kit on a > > > > saltwater > > tank? > > > > > > > > Amber > > ------------ --------- --------- ------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the home page.  Or e-mail aquaticlife- digest@yahoogrou ps.com to receive the digest, which includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email Or email aquaticlife- nomail@yahoogrou ps.com for the No E-Mail option where you will still be able to read messages on the group and post replies. Or email aquaticlife- normal@yahoogrou ps.com to receive individual e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 40857	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 6/12/2009
Subject: Re: Phosphate test kit and other API test kits

Bill, You will notice the appearance of the mystical 59 here. All those tanks with 5's in them and the new $19.99 test kit combo Amber is ordering. \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Amber Berglund Sent: Friday, June 12, 2009 4:53 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Phosphate test kit and other API test kits Now the question is, how many of them have fish in them ;) I have 4 tanks with current inhabitants, a 55 gallon empty to put my angel's into when the stand is finished being built (still waiting somewhat impatiently on that one). And a spare 10 gallon for a QT tank, so in total I have 6 tanks, but 2 are empty... for now ;) I have a 10 gallon with guppy fry in it, and a 10 gallon with a dwarf frog and a betta. then I have a 55 gallon community tank, and a 125 gallon with mixed community and a couple semi aggressive (not counting the angel's which will hopefully be moved soon, and the catfish is definitely going back to the fish store). Speaking of that catfish I must be feeding him well enough... he hasn't eaten any of the platy fry that are starting to get bigger, and I'd think they'd be easy to spot since they're orange platy's ;) LOL. The fry are maybe 2-3 weeks old from the look of them, cute little guys, maybe 3 of them, one is solid orange and then I have a orange/white baby, and one baby that looks mostly white so far, will have to see how the colors turn out. I have adult platy's in different colors so I'm not sure which ones were the parents. I'm guessing my fat little orange/white platy was the mom though, as she's not so fat anymore ;). My favorite platy's are the orange/black ones, my female hasn't fully matured yet though, she's my only orange/black one. I'm hoping to find hillstream loach fry in the tank some day, but I won't know unless I start lifting all the ornaments and moving them around, as I have read that they hide under rocks and ornaments until they're bigger (maybe half inch sized). Now don't go asking for a list of every fish I have as that'll be a long list ;) Amber bill 1433 wrote: > > > > Sorry, > > I lost count about 2 squares back! Just how many tanks do you have now? > > bill > > --- On Fri, 6/12/09, Amber Berglund <amber@... > <mailto:amber%40rose-fields.com>> wrote: > > From: Amber Berglund <amber@... > <mailto:amber%40rose-fields.com>> > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Phosphate test kit and other API test kits > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Date: Friday, June 12, 2009, 1:01 PM > > My hubby would kill me if I asked for another fish tank, especially a > big reef tank ;) LOL. > I already have a KH test kit actually but it's okay to have a spare. I > bought a KH and GH test kit a few months back. I plan on getting snails > and was considering getting shrimp in the future too, I saw pictures of > those blue fan shrimp (they're kind of large but non aggressive and they > filter food out of the water with their "fans"). I believe they're wood > shrimp. They're slightly spendy but a single shrimp but I think it would > be neat to have one in the 125 gallon since it has plenty of room (after > I take the catfish in on saturday, I already told them I'll be bringing > him in, just as soon as I find my net... I can only find the little one > and he definitely outgrew that over a month ago ;) LOL). > > Amber > > Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > > > > > > Yep. When the price drops by $5.00, overnight, that is God's way of > saying > > to BUY IT NOW!!! LOL I just looked at what comes in the kit again and it > > has a KH test kit also which is something you can use on a regular > > basis as > > well. So it's actually a pretty good deal since you'll be getting > two kits > > that you don't have and need (Phosphate and KH=Carbonate Hardness) and a > > Nitrate kit you can use when your current kit runs out. Just don't > > open the > > Nitrate kit bottles until your current kit runs out or expires (or a > year > > goes by after first using it). I guess the Calcium kit could be used but > > it's not as likely unless you get into having lots of inverts. > > > > OR... now that you'll have a Master Reef Test Kit, it might be time > to set > > up a Reef Tank. Isn't there room in that back corner of the living > > room for > > another tank??? LOL > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>> > > (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right > > side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, > Month) > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On > > Behalf Of Amber Berglund > > Sent: Friday, June 12, 2009 10:13 AM > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Phosphate test kit and other API test kits > > > > The reef kit is now on sale for 19.99, I think I'm going to get it > instead > > of a phosphate only test, I know that API test kits work well enough > > and I'm > > used to their color charts. I will know which ones are good for both > > saltwater and freshwater when they show up I guess ;) > > > > Amber > > > > Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > > > > > > > > > Here's the link to the Reef Master Test Kit on MarineDepot.com. > > > > > > > > > http://www.marinedepot.com/ps_ViewItem~category~Aquarium_Pharmaceutica > <http://www.marinedepot.com/ps_ViewItem%7Ecategory%7EAquarium_Pharmaceut ica> > > > > <http://www.marinedepot.com/ps_ViewItem%7Ecategory%7EAquarium_Pharmaceut ica > <http://www.marinedepot.com/ps_ViewItem%7Ecategory%7EAquarium_Pharmaceut ica>> > > > ls_Ree > > > > > > <http://www.marinedepot.com/ps_ViewItem%7Ecategory%7EAquarium_Pharmace > <http://www.marinedepot.com/ps_ViewItem%7Ecategory%7EAquarium_Pharmace> > > > <http://www.marinedepot.com/ps_ViewItem%7Ecategory%7EAquarium_Pharmace > <http://www.marinedepot.com/ps_ViewItem%7Ecategory%7EAquarium_Pharmace>> > > > uticals_Ree> > > > f_Master_Test_Kit_Specialty_Test_Kits_for_Saltwater_Aquariums~vendor~A > > > quariu m_Pharmaceuticals~idProduct~AP3323~idCategory~FITKSI.html > > > > > > Presuming the link will break, go to http://www.MarineDepot.com, > <http://www.MarineDepot.com,> > > <http://www.MarineDepot.com, <http://www.MarineDepot.com,>> > > > <http://www.MarineDepot.com, <http://www.MarineDepot.com,> > <http://www.MarineDepot.com, <http://www.MarineDepot.com,>>> click on > > the Test Kits link on the left > > > side. Then click on the Aquarium Pharmaceuticals link. Then scroll > > > down to the Reef Test Kit for $24.99 (I'm presuming this is the one > > > you were talking about). I also see that the API Nitrate test kit is > > > for either FW or SW so maybe there are just different instructions and > > > a color card for the SW Nitrate Test Kit that you would not use and > > > you would have to use your FW Nitrate Test Kit instructions and color > > > card. > > > > > > I can't help you with brand recommendations since I've never had to > > > use a Phosphate Test Kit before. > > > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>> > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>>> > > (Links to any articles referenced in > > > above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels > > > and also under Archives by Year, Month) > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On Behalf Of Amber Berglund > > > Sent: Thursday, June 11, 2009 11:27 PM > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Phosphate test kit and other API test kits > > > > > > Well nevermind, I just went to go search for the test kit again and > > > now I can't even find it listed on the site, perhaps it was sold out > > > or something. > > > I still need some suggestions on good brands to get besides API ;) > > > They have a seachem multitest for 12.69. > > > > > > Amber > > > ------------------------<snip for some brevity>-----------------------

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 40858	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 6/12/2009
Subject: Re: Phosphate test kit and other API test kits

LOL. And did you notice that the total number of tanks that Amber has is between 5 and 9??? And the total gallons adds up to 259G??? EEERRRIIiieeeeeeee. \\Steve//, don't forget to do your 59% PWC's this weekend. ;-) Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) P.S. - Yes, I fudged the total gallon figure... it's really only 255G but 259 went so much better with the reply. LOL -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Steve Szabo Sent: Friday, June 12, 2009 10:09 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Phosphate test kit and other API test kits Bill, You will notice the appearance of the mystical 59 here. All those tanks with 5's in them and the new $19.99 test kit combo Amber is ordering. \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Amber Berglund Sent: Friday, June 12, 2009 4:53 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Phosphate test kit and other API test kits Now the question is, how many of them have fish in them ;) I have 4 tanks with current inhabitants, a 55 gallon empty to put my angel's into when the stand is finished being built (still waiting somewhat impatiently on that one). And a spare 10 gallon for a QT tank, so in total I have 6 tanks, but 2 are empty... for now ;) I have a 10 gallon with guppy fry in it, and a 10 gallon with a dwarf frog and a betta. then I have a 55 gallon community tank, and a 125 gallon with mixed community and a couple semi aggressive (not counting the angel's which will hopefully be moved soon, and the catfish is definitely going back to the fish store). Speaking of that catfish I must be feeding him well enough... he hasn't eaten any of the platy fry that are starting to get bigger, and I'd think they'd be easy to spot since they're orange platy's ;) LOL. The fry are maybe 2-3 weeks old from the look of them, cute little guys, maybe 3 of them, one is solid orange and then I have a orange/white baby, and one baby that looks mostly white so far, will have to see how the colors turn out. I have adult platy's in different colors so I'm not sure which ones were the parents. I'm guessing my fat little orange/white platy was the mom though, as she's not so fat anymore ;). My favorite platy's are the orange/black ones, my female hasn't fully matured yet though, she's my only orange/black one. I'm hoping to find hillstream loach fry in the tank some day, but I won't know unless I start lifting all the ornaments and moving them around, as I have read that they hide under rocks and ornaments until they're bigger (maybe half inch sized). Now don't go asking for a list of every fish I have as that'll be a long list ;) Amber bill 1433 wrote: > > > > Sorry, > > I lost count about 2 squares back! Just how many tanks do you have now? > > bill > > --- On Fri, 6/12/09, Amber Berglund <amber@... > <mailto:amber%40rose-fields.com>> wrote: > > From: Amber Berglund <amber@... > <mailto:amber%40rose-fields.com>> > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Phosphate test kit and other API test kits > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Date: Friday, June 12, 2009, 1:01 PM > > My hubby would kill me if I asked for another fish tank, especially a > big reef tank ;) LOL. > I already have a KH test kit actually but it's okay to have a spare. I > bought a KH and GH test kit a few months back. I plan on getting snails > and was considering getting shrimp in the future too, I saw pictures of > those blue fan shrimp (they're kind of large but non aggressive and they > filter food out of the water with their "fans"). I believe they're wood > shrimp. They're slightly spendy but a single shrimp but I think it would > be neat to have one in the 125 gallon since it has plenty of room (after > I take the catfish in on saturday, I already told them I'll be bringing > him in, just as soon as I find my net... I can only find the little one > and he definitely outgrew that over a month ago ;) LOL). > > Amber > > Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > > > > > > Yep. When the price drops by $5.00, overnight, that is God's way of > saying > > to BUY IT NOW!!! LOL I just looked at what comes in the kit again and it > > has a KH test kit also which is something you can use on a regular > > basis as well. So it's actually a pretty good deal since you'll be > > getting > two kits > > that you don't have and need (Phosphate and KH=Carbonate Hardness) and a > > Nitrate kit you can use when your current kit runs out. Just don't > > open the Nitrate kit bottles until your current kit runs out or > > expires (or a > year > > goes by after first using it). I guess the Calcium kit could be used but > > it's not as likely unless you get into having lots of inverts. > > > > OR... now that you'll have a Master Reef Test Kit, it might be time > to set > > up a Reef Tank. Isn't there room in that back corner of the living > > room for another tank??? LOL > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>> > > (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right > > side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, > Month) > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On Behalf Of Amber Berglund > > Sent: Friday, June 12, 2009 10:13 AM > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Phosphate test kit and other API test kits > > > > The reef kit is now on sale for 19.99, I think I'm going to get it > instead > > of a phosphate only test, I know that API test kits work well enough > > and I'm used to their color charts. I will know which ones are good > > for both saltwater and freshwater when they show up I guess ;) > > > > Amber > > > > Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > > > > > > > > > Here's the link to the Reef Master Test Kit on MarineDepot.com. > > > > > > > > > http://www.marinedepot.com/ps_ViewItem~category~Aquarium_Pharmaceutica > <http://www.marinedepot.com/ps_ViewItem%7Ecategory%7EAquarium_Pharmaceut ica> > > > > <http://www.marinedepot.com/ps_ViewItem%7Ecategory%7EAquarium_Pharmaceut ica > <http://www.marinedepot.com/ps_ViewItem%7Ecategory%7EAquarium_Pharmaceut ica>> > > > ls_Ree > > > > > > <http://www.marinedepot.com/ps_ViewItem%7Ecategory%7EAquarium_Pharmace > <http://www.marinedepot.com/ps_ViewItem%7Ecategory%7EAquarium_Pharmace> > > > <http://www.marinedepot.com/ps_ViewItem%7Ecategory%7EAquarium_Pharmace > <http://www.marinedepot.com/ps_ViewItem%7Ecategory%7EAquarium_Pharmace>> > > > uticals_Ree> > > > f_Master_Test_Kit_Specialty_Test_Kits_for_Saltwater_Aquariums~vendor~A > > > quariu m_Pharmaceuticals~idProduct~AP3323~idCategory~FITKSI.html > > > > > > Presuming the link will break, go to http://www.MarineDepot.com, > <http://www.MarineDepot.com,> > > <http://www.MarineDepot.com, <http://www.MarineDepot.com,>> > > > <http://www.MarineDepot.com, <http://www.MarineDepot.com,> > <http://www.MarineDepot.com, <http://www.MarineDepot.com,>>> click on > > the Test Kits link on the left > > > side. Then click on the Aquarium Pharmaceuticals link. Then scroll > > > down to the Reef Test Kit for $24.99 (I'm presuming this is the one > > > you were talking about). I also see that the API Nitrate test kit is > > > for either FW or SW so maybe there are just different instructions and > > > a color card for the SW Nitrate Test Kit that you would not use and > > > you would have to use your FW Nitrate Test Kit instructions and color > > > card. > > > > > > I can't help you with brand recommendations since I've never had to > > > use a Phosphate Test Kit before. > > > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>> > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>>> > > (Links to any articles referenced in > > > above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels > > > and also under Archives by Year, Month) > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On Behalf Of Amber Berglund > > > Sent: Thursday, June 11, 2009 11:27 PM > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Phosphate test kit and other API test kits > > > > > > Well nevermind, I just went to go search for the test kit again and > > > now I can't even find it listed on the site, perhaps it was sold out > > > or something. > > > I still need some suggestions on good brands to get besides API ;) > > > They have a seachem multitest for 12.69. > > > > > > Amber > > > ------------------------<snip for some brevity>----------------------- ------------------------------------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. 74/`7.88.><((((:>.74/`7.88.74/`7.8><((((:> 8.74/`7.8. , .74/`7..><((((:> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <:((((><.74/`7.88.74/`7.8<:((((><8.74/`7.8. , .74/`7..<:((((><74/`7.88. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the home page. Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com to receive the digest, which includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com for the No E-Mail option where you will still be able to read messages on the group and post replies. Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com to receive individual e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 40859	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 6/12/2009
Subject: Re: Phosphate test kit and other API test kits

You guys are just a little weird ;) I think I'm going to buy 2 test kits so I can compare just how accurate the API phosphate test kit is ;) Amber Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > > > LOL. And did you notice that the total number of tanks that Amber has is > between 5 and 9??? And the total gallons adds up to 259G??? > EEERRRIIiieeeeeeee. > > \\Steve//, don't forget to do your 59% PWC's this weekend. ;-) > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right > side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) > > P.S. - Yes, I fudged the total gallon figure... it's really only 255G but > 259 went so much better with the reply. LOL > > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On > Behalf Of Steve Szabo > Sent: Friday, June 12, 2009 10:09 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Phosphate test kit and other API test kits > > Bill, > > You will notice the appearance of the mystical 59 here. All those > tanks with > 5's in them and the new $19.99 test kit combo Amber is ordering. > > \\Steve// > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] > On Behalf Of Amber Berglund > Sent: Friday, June 12, 2009 4:53 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Phosphate test kit and other API test kits > > Now the question is, how many of them have fish in them ;) I have 4 tanks > with current inhabitants, a 55 gallon empty to put my angel's into > when the > stand is finished being built (still waiting somewhat impatiently on that > one). And a spare 10 gallon for a QT tank, so in total I have 6 tanks, > but 2 > are empty... for now ;) I have a 10 gallon with guppy fry in it, and a 10 > gallon with a dwarf frog and a betta. > then I have a 55 gallon community tank, and a 125 gallon with mixed > community and a couple semi aggressive (not counting the angel's which > will > hopefully be moved soon, and the catfish is definitely going back to the > fish store). > Speaking of that catfish I must be feeding him well enough... he hasn't > eaten any of the platy fry that are starting to get bigger, and I'd think > they'd be easy to spot since they're orange platy's ;) LOL. The fry are > maybe 2-3 weeks old from the look of them, cute little guys, maybe 3 of > them, one is solid orange and then I have a orange/white baby, and one > baby > that looks mostly white so far, will have to see how the colors turn > out. I > have adult platy's in different colors so I'm not > > sure which ones were the parents. I'm guessing my fat little orange/white > platy was the mom though, as she's not so fat anymore ;). > My favorite platy's are the orange/black ones, my female hasn't fully > matured yet though, she's my only orange/black one. > I'm hoping to find hillstream loach fry in the tank some day, but I won't > know unless I start lifting all the ornaments and moving them around, as I > have read that they hide under rocks and ornaments until they're bigger > (maybe half inch sized). > Now don't go asking for a list of every fish I have as that'll be a long > > list ;) > > Amber > > bill 1433 wrote: > > > > > > > > Sorry, > > > > I lost count about 2 squares back! Just how many tanks do you have > now? > > > > bill > > > > --- On Fri, 6/12/09, Amber Berglund <amber@... > <mailto:amber%40rose-fields.com> > > <mailto:amber%40rose-fields.com>> wrote: > > > > From: Amber Berglund <amber@... > <mailto:amber%40rose-fields.com> > > <mailto:amber%40rose-fields.com>> > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Phosphate test kit and other API test kits > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > Date: Friday, June 12, 2009, 1:01 PM > > > > My hubby would kill me if I asked for another fish tank, especially a > > big reef tank ;) LOL. > > I already have a KH test kit actually but it's okay to have a spare. I > > bought a KH and GH test kit a few months back. I plan on getting > snails > > and was considering getting shrimp in the future too, I saw pictures > of > > those blue fan shrimp (they're kind of large but non aggressive and > they > > filter food out of the water with their "fans"). I believe they're > wood > > shrimp. They're slightly spendy but a single shrimp but I think it > would > > be neat to have one in the 125 gallon since it has plenty of room > (after > > I take the catfish in on saturday, I already told them I'll be > bringing > > him in, just as soon as I find my net... I can only find the little > one > > and he definitely outgrew that over a month ago ;) LOL). > > > > Amber > > > > Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > > > > > > > > > Yep. When the price drops by $5.00, overnight, that is God's way of > > saying > > > to BUY IT NOW!!! LOL I just looked at what comes in the kit again > and it > > > has a KH test kit also which is something you can use on a regular > > > basis as well. So it's actually a pretty good deal since you'll be > > > getting > > two kits > > > that you don't have and need (Phosphate and KH=Carbonate Hardness) > and a > > > Nitrate kit you can use when your current kit runs out. Just don't > > > open the Nitrate kit bottles until your current kit runs out or > > > expires (or a > > > year > > > goes by after first using it). I guess the Calcium kit could be used > but > > > it's not as likely unless you get into having lots of inverts. > > > > > > OR... now that you'll have a Master Reef Test Kit, it might be time > > to set > > > up a Reef Tank. Isn't there room in that back corner of the living > > > room for another tank??? LOL > > > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>>> > > > (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the > right > > > side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, > > Month) > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On Behalf Of Amber Berglund > > > Sent: Friday, June 12, 2009 10:13 AM > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Phosphate test kit and other API test > kits > > > > > > The reef kit is now on sale for 19.99, I think I'm going to get it > > instead > > > of a phosphate only test, I know that API test kits work well enough > > > and I'm used to their color charts. I will know which ones are good > > > for both saltwater and freshwater when they show up I guess ;) > > > > > > Amber > > > > > > Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > Here's the link to the Reef Master Test Kit on MarineDepot.com. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > http://www.marinedepot.com/ps_ViewItem~category~Aquarium_Pharmaceutica > <http://www.marinedepot.com/ps_ViewItem%7Ecategory%7EAquarium_Pharmaceutica> > > > > <http://www.marinedepot.com/ps_ViewItem%7Ecategory%7EAquarium_Pharmaceut > <http://www.marinedepot.com/ps_ViewItem%7Ecategory%7EAquarium_Pharmaceut> > ica> > > > > > > > > <http://www.marinedepot.com/ps_ViewItem%7Ecategory%7EAquarium_Pharmaceut > <http://www.marinedepot.com/ps_ViewItem%7Ecategory%7EAquarium_Pharmaceut> > ica > > > <http://www.marinedepot.com/ps_ViewItem%7Ecategory%7EAquarium_Pharmaceut > <http://www.marinedepot.com/ps_ViewItem%7Ecategory%7EAquarium_Pharmaceut> > ica>> > > > > ls_Ree > > > > > > > > > > <http://www.marinedepot.com/ps_ViewItem%7Ecategory%7EAquarium_Pharmace > <http://www.marinedepot.com/ps_ViewItem%7Ecategory%7EAquarium_Pharmace> > > > > <http://www.marinedepot.com/ps_ViewItem%7Ecategory%7EAquarium_Pharmace > <http://www.marinedepot.com/ps_ViewItem%7Ecategory%7EAquarium_Pharmace>> > > > > > > <http://www.marinedepot.com/ps_ViewItem%7Ecategory%7EAquarium_Pharmace > <http://www.marinedepot.com/ps_ViewItem%7Ecategory%7EAquarium_Pharmace> > > > > <http://www.marinedepot.com/ps_ViewItem%7Ecategory%7EAquarium_Pharmace > <http://www.marinedepot.com/ps_ViewItem%7Ecategory%7EAquarium_Pharmace>>> > > > > uticals_Ree> > > > > > f_Master_Test_Kit_Specialty_Test_Kits_for_Saltwater_Aquariums~vendor~A > > > > quariu m_Pharmaceuticals~idProduct~AP3323~idCategory~FITKSI.html > > > > > > > > Presuming the link will break, go to http://www.MarineDepot.com, > <http://www.MarineDepot.com,> > > <http://www.MarineDepot.com, <http://www.MarineDepot.com,>> > > > <http://www.MarineDepot.com, <http://www.MarineDepot.com,> > <http://www.MarineDepot.com, <http://www.MarineDepot.com,>>> > > > > <http://www.MarineDepot.com, <http://www.MarineDepot.com,> > <http://www.MarineDepot.com, <http://www.MarineDepot.com,>> > > <http://www.MarineDepot.com, <http://www.MarineDepot.com,> > <http://www.MarineDepot.com, <http://www.MarineDepot.com,>>>> click on > > > the Test Kits link on the left > > > > side. Then click on the Aquarium Pharmaceuticals link. Then scroll > > > > down to the Reef Test Kit for $24.99 (I'm presuming this is the > one > > > > you were talking about). I also see that the API Nitrate test kit > is > > > > for either FW or SW so maybe there are just different instructions > and > > > > a color card for the SW Nitrate Test Kit that you would not use > and > > > > you would have to use your FW Nitrate Test Kit instructions and > color > > > > card. > > > > > > > > I can't help you with brand recommendations since I've never had > to > > > > use a Phosphate Test Kit before. > > > > > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>> > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>>> > > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>> > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>>>> > > > (Links to any articles referenced in > > > > above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under > Labels > > > > and also under Archives by Year, Month) > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On Behalf Of Amber > Berglund > > > > Sent: Thursday, June 11, 2009 11:27 PM > > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Phosphate test kit and other API test > kits > > > > > > > > Well nevermind, I just went to go search for the test kit again > and > > > > now I can't even find it listed on the site, perhaps it was sold > out > > > > or something. > > > > I still need some suggestions on good brands to get besides API ;) > > > > They have a seachem multitest for 12.69. > > > > > > > > Amber > > > > > ------------------------<snip for some brevity>----------------------- > > ------------------------------------ > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. > 74/`7.88.><((((:>.74/`7.88.74/`7.8><((((:> 8.74/`7.8. , .74/`7..><((((:> > PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to > the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the > SUBJECT > LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- > <:((((><.74/`7.88.74/`7.8<:((((><8.74/`7.8. , .74/`7..<:((((><74/`7.88. > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. > > If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of unsubscribing, you > can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the > home page. > > Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:aquaticlife-digest%40yahoogroups.com> to receive the digest, which > includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email > > Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:aquaticlife-nomail%40yahoogroups.com> for the No E-Mail option > where > you will still be able to read messages on the group and post replies. > > Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:aquaticlife-normal%40yahoogroups.com> to receive individual > e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 40860	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 6/12/2009
Subject: Re: Phosphate test kit and other API test kits

If you think we are weird now, just be glad that we are not living up there with you, in the land of the midnight sun, and the never ending darkness, depending on the time of the wear. \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Amber Berglund Sent: Saturday, June 13, 2009 12:59 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Phosphate test kit and other API test kits You guys are just a little weird ;) I think I'm going to buy 2 test kits so I can compare just how accurate the API phosphate test kit is ;) Amber Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > > > LOL. And did you notice that the total number of tanks that Amber has is > between 5 and 9??? And the total gallons adds up to 259G??? > EEERRRIIiieeeeeeee. > > \\Steve//, don't forget to do your 59% PWC's this weekend. ;-) > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right > side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) > > P.S. - Yes, I fudged the total gallon figure... it's really only 255G but > 259 went so much better with the reply. LOL > > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On > Behalf Of Steve Szabo > Sent: Friday, June 12, 2009 10:09 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Phosphate test kit and other API test kits > > Bill, > > You will notice the appearance of the mystical 59 here. All those > tanks with > 5's in them and the new $19.99 test kit combo Amber is ordering. > > \\Steve// > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] > On Behalf Of Amber Berglund > Sent: Friday, June 12, 2009 4:53 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Phosphate test kit and other API test kits > > Now the question is, how many of them have fish in them ;) I have 4 tanks > with current inhabitants, a 55 gallon empty to put my angel's into > when the > stand is finished being built (still waiting somewhat impatiently on that > one). And a spare 10 gallon for a QT tank, so in total I have 6 tanks, > but 2 > are empty... for now ;) I have a 10 gallon with guppy fry in it, and a 10 > gallon with a dwarf frog and a betta. > then I have a 55 gallon community tank, and a 125 gallon with mixed > community and a couple semi aggressive (not counting the angel's which > will > hopefully be moved soon, and the catfish is definitely going back to the > fish store). > Speaking of that catfish I must be feeding him well enough... he hasn't > eaten any of the platy fry that are starting to get bigger, and I'd think > they'd be easy to spot since they're orange platy's ;) LOL. The fry are > maybe 2-3 weeks old from the look of them, cute little guys, maybe 3 of > them, one is solid orange and then I have a orange/white baby, and one > baby > that looks mostly white so far, will have to see how the colors turn > out. I > have adult platy's in different colors so I'm not > > sure which ones were the parents. I'm guessing my fat little orange/white > platy was the mom though, as she's not so fat anymore ;). > My favorite platy's are the orange/black ones, my female hasn't fully > matured yet though, she's my only orange/black one. > I'm hoping to find hillstream loach fry in the tank some day, but I won't > know unless I start lifting all the ornaments and moving them around, as I > have read that they hide under rocks and ornaments until they're bigger > (maybe half inch sized). > Now don't go asking for a list of every fish I have as that'll be a long > > list ;) > > Amber > > bill 1433 wrote: > > > > > > > > Sorry, > > > > I lost count about 2 squares back! Just how many tanks do you have > now? > > > > bill > > > > --- On Fri, 6/12/09, Amber Berglund <amber@... > <mailto:amber%40rose-fields.com> > > <mailto:amber%40rose-fields.com>> wrote: > > > > From: Amber Berglund <amber@... > <mailto:amber%40rose-fields.com> > > <mailto:amber%40rose-fields.com>> > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Phosphate test kit and other API test kits > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > Date: Friday, June 12, 2009, 1:01 PM > > > > My hubby would kill me if I asked for another fish tank, especially a > > big reef tank ;) LOL. > > I already have a KH test kit actually but it's okay to have a spare. I > > bought a KH and GH test kit a few months back. I plan on getting > snails > > and was considering getting shrimp in the future too, I saw pictures > of > > those blue fan shrimp (they're kind of large but non aggressive and > they > > filter food out of the water with their "fans"). I believe they're > wood > > shrimp. They're slightly spendy but a single shrimp but I think it > would > > be neat to have one in the 125 gallon since it has plenty of room > (after > > I take the catfish in on saturday, I already told them I'll be > bringing > > him in, just as soon as I find my net... I can only find the little > one > > and he definitely outgrew that over a month ago ;) LOL). > > > > Amber > > > > Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > > > > > > > > > Yep. When the price drops by $5.00, overnight, that is God's way of > > saying > > > to BUY IT NOW!!! LOL I just looked at what comes in the kit again > and it > > > has a KH test kit also which is something you can use on a regular > > > basis as well. So it's actually a pretty good deal since you'll be > > > getting > > two kits > > > that you don't have and need (Phosphate and KH=Carbonate Hardness) > and a > > > Nitrate kit you can use when your current kit runs out. Just don't > > > open the Nitrate kit bottles until your current kit runs out or > > > expires (or a > > > year > > > goes by after first using it). I guess the Calcium kit could be used > but > > > it's not as likely unless you get into having lots of inverts. > > > > > > OR... now that you'll have a Master Reef Test Kit, it might be time > > to set > > > up a Reef Tank. Isn't there room in that back corner of the living > > > room for another tank??? LOL > > > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>>> > > > (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the > right > > > side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, > > Month) > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On Behalf Of Amber Berglund > > > Sent: Friday, June 12, 2009 10:13 AM > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Phosphate test kit and other API test > kits > > > > > > The reef kit is now on sale for 19.99, I think I'm going to get it > > instead > > > of a phosphate only test, I know that API test kits work well enough > > > and I'm used to their color charts. I will know which ones are good > > > for both saltwater and freshwater when they show up I guess ;) > > > > > > Amber > > > > > > Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > Here's the link to the Reef Master Test Kit on MarineDepot.com. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > http://www.marinedepot.com/ps_ViewItem~category~Aquarium_Pharmaceutica > <http://www.marinedepot.com/ps_ViewItem%7Ecategory%7EAquarium_Pharmaceutica> > > > > <http://www.marinedepot.com/ps_ViewItem%7Ecategory%7EAquarium_Pharmaceut > <http://www.marinedepot.com/ps_ViewItem%7Ecategory%7EAquarium_Pharmaceut> > ica> > > > > > > > > <http://www.marinedepot.com/ps_ViewItem%7Ecategory%7EAquarium_Pharmaceut > <http://www.marinedepot.com/ps_ViewItem%7Ecategory%7EAquarium_Pharmaceut> > ica > > > <http://www.marinedepot.com/ps_ViewItem%7Ecategory%7EAquarium_Pharmaceut > <http://www.marinedepot.com/ps_ViewItem%7Ecategory%7EAquarium_Pharmaceut> > ica>> > > > > ls_Ree > > > > > > > > > > <http://www.marinedepot.com/ps_ViewItem%7Ecategory%7EAquarium_Pharmace > <http://www.marinedepot.com/ps_ViewItem%7Ecategory%7EAquarium_Pharmace> > > > > <http://www.marinedepot.com/ps_ViewItem%7Ecategory%7EAquarium_Pharmace > <http://www.marinedepot.com/ps_ViewItem%7Ecategory%7EAquarium_Pharmace>> > > > > > > <http://www.marinedepot.com/ps_ViewItem%7Ecategory%7EAquarium_Pharmace > <http://www.marinedepot.com/ps_ViewItem%7Ecategory%7EAquarium_Pharmace> > > > > <http://www.marinedepot.com/ps_ViewItem%7Ecategory%7EAquarium_Pharmace > <http://www.marinedepot.com/ps_ViewItem%7Ecategory%7EAquarium_Pharmace>>> > > > > uticals_Ree> > > > > > f_Master_Test_Kit_Specialty_Test_Kits_for_Saltwater_Aquariums~vendor~A > > > > quariu m_Pharmaceuticals~idProduct~AP3323~idCategory~FITKSI.html > > > > > > > > Presuming the link will break, go to http://www.MarineDepot.com, > <http://www.MarineDepot.com,> > > <http://www.MarineDepot.com, <http://www.MarineDepot.com,>> > > > <http://www.MarineDepot.com, <http://www.MarineDepot.com,> > <http://www.MarineDepot.com, <http://www.MarineDepot.com,>>> > > > > <http://www.MarineDepot.com, <http://www.MarineDepot.com,> > <http://www.MarineDepot.com, <http://www.MarineDepot.com,>> > > <http://www.MarineDepot.com, <http://www.MarineDepot.com,> > <http://www.MarineDepot.com, <http://www.MarineDepot.com,>>>> click on > > > the Test Kits link on the left > > > > side. Then click on the Aquarium Pharmaceuticals link. Then scroll > > > > down to the Reef Test Kit for $24.99 (I'm presuming this is the > one > > > > you were talking about). I also see that the API Nitrate test kit > is > > > > for either FW or SW so maybe there are just different instructions > and > > > > a color card for the SW Nitrate Test Kit that you would not use > and > > > > you would have to use your FW Nitrate Test Kit instructions and > color > > > > card. > > > > > > > > I can't help you with brand recommendations since I've never had > to > > > > use a Phosphate Test Kit before. > > > > > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>> > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>>> > > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>> > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>>>> > > > (Links to any articles referenced in > > > > above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under > Labels > > > > and also under Archives by Year, Month) > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On Behalf Of Amber > Berglund > > > > Sent: Thursday, June 11, 2009 11:27 PM > > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Phosphate test kit and other API test > kits > > > > > > > > Well nevermind, I just went to go search for the test kit again > and > > > > now I can't even find it listed on the site, perhaps it was sold > out > > > > or something. > > > > I still need some suggestions on good brands to get besides API ;) > > > > They have a seachem multitest for 12.69. > > > > > > > > Amber > > > > > ------------------------<snip for some brevity>----------------------- > > ------------------------------------ > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. > 74/`7.88.><((((:>.74/`7.88.74/`7.8><((((:> 8.74/`7.8. , .74/`7..><((((:> > PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to > the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the > SUBJECT > LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- > <:((((><.74/`7.88.74/`7.8<:((((><8.74/`7.8. , .74/`7..<:((((><74/`7.88. > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. > > If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of unsubscribing, you > can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the > home page. > > Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:aquaticlife-digest%40yahoogroups.com> to receive the digest, which > includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email > > Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:aquaticlife-nomail%40yahoogroups.com> for the No E-Mail option > where > you will still be able to read messages on the group and post replies. > > Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:aquaticlife-normal%40yahoogroups.com> to receive individual > e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links > > ------------------------------------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the home page. Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com to receive the digest, which includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com for the No E-Mail option where you will still be able to read messages on the group and post replies. Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com to receive individual e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 40861	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 6/12/2009
Subject: The Toy Fish, 3rd Edition

In certain circles, this series has been rather popular. The full title is _The Toy Fish A History of the Aquarium Hobby in America--The First One Hundred Years_ Albert Klee is the author, and a great writer on the history of aquaria. His research is first rate. A little bit of history about the "History" series. The author considers the first edition to be a series of 21 articles published in "The Aquarium" from December, 1967 to September, 1969 to be the first edition, along with a limited edition published in book form by the ACA in 1987. The ACA edition was limited to 300 copies. Recently one was advertised on a British site for some 217.96 English pounds (more than double the price of the Magic Bus). He considers the second edition to be the volume published in 2003 as _The Toy Fish: A History of the Aquarium Hobby in America - The First One Hundred Years, Revised and Expanded Edition_. This volume expanded upon the original series of articles. It is still available from Finley Aquatic Books. More information on this volume, and ordering information, can be found at http://www.finleyaquaticbooks.com/ToyFish.html. This third edition is greatly expanded from the 2003 volume, with 391 pages as compared to 204 in the earlier edition. This volume is also available in a limited edition, which, I believe, is nearly sold out at this time. However, this volume is not for the average hobbyist. The average hobbyist, who may have a slight interest in the history of the hobby, would find the Second Edition more than adequate for that purpose. If nothing else, the pictures of the tanks, and other aquarium paraphernalia are worth the price of admission. (Note: Reference to the Magic Bus. Magic Bus is a song by The Who and first recorded by them (not Them, but The Who) in 1965 and found on the album "My Generation". However, arguably, the best performance of this song can be found on "Live at Leeds", from 1970, which, as the title indicates, is a live performance.) \\Steve//

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 40862	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 6/13/2009
Subject: Re: Phosphate test kit and other API test kits

Time of the wear huh? ;) LOL. Actually I'm in southern Alaska, we have somewhat normal daylight ;) just doesn't get very warm. Amber Steve Szabo wrote: > > > If you think we are weird now, just be glad that we are not living up > there with you, in the land of the midnight sun, and the never ending > darkness, depending on the time of the wear. > > \\Steve// > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On Behalf Of Amber Berglund > Sent: Saturday, June 13, 2009 12:59 AM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Phosphate test kit and other API test kits > > You guys are just a little weird ;) > I think I'm going to buy 2 test kits so I can compare just how accurate > the API phosphate test kit is ;) > > Amber > > Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > > > > > > LOL. And did you notice that the total number of tanks that Amber has is > > between 5 and 9??? And the total gallons adds up to 259G??? > > EEERRRIIiieeeeeeee. > > > > \\Steve//, don't forget to do your 59% PWC's this weekend. ;-) > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>> > > (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right > > side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, > Month) > > > > P.S. - Yes, I fudged the total gallon figure... it's really only > 255G but > > 259 went so much better with the reply. LOL > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On > > Behalf Of Steve Szabo > > Sent: Friday, June 12, 2009 10:09 PM > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Phosphate test kit and other API test kits > > > > Bill, > > > > You will notice the appearance of the mystical 59 here. All those > > tanks with > > 5's in them and the new $19.99 test kit combo Amber is ordering. > > > > \\Steve// > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] > > On Behalf Of Amber Berglund > > Sent: Friday, June 12, 2009 4:53 PM > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Phosphate test kit and other API test kits > > > > Now the question is, how many of them have fish in them ;) I have 4 > tanks > > with current inhabitants, a 55 gallon empty to put my angel's into > > when the > > stand is finished being built (still waiting somewhat impatiently on > that > > one). And a spare 10 gallon for a QT tank, so in total I have 6 tanks, > > but 2 > > are empty... for now ;) I have a 10 gallon with guppy fry in it, and > a 10 > > gallon with a dwarf frog and a betta. > > then I have a 55 gallon community tank, and a 125 gallon with mixed > > community and a couple semi aggressive (not counting the angel's which > > will > > hopefully be moved soon, and the catfish is definitely going back to the > > fish store). > > Speaking of that catfish I must be feeding him well enough... he hasn't > > eaten any of the platy fry that are starting to get bigger, and I'd > think > > they'd be easy to spot since they're orange platy's ;) LOL. The fry are > > maybe 2-3 weeks old from the look of them, cute little guys, maybe 3 of > > them, one is solid orange and then I have a orange/white baby, and one > > baby > > that looks mostly white so far, will have to see how the colors turn > > out. I > > have adult platy's in different colors so I'm not > > > > sure which ones were the parents. I'm guessing my fat little > orange/white > > platy was the mom though, as she's not so fat anymore ;). > > My favorite platy's are the orange/black ones, my female hasn't fully > > matured yet though, she's my only orange/black one. > > I'm hoping to find hillstream loach fry in the tank some day, but I > won't > > know unless I start lifting all the ornaments and moving them > around, as I > > have read that they hide under rocks and ornaments until they're bigger > > (maybe half inch sized). > > Now don't go asking for a list of every fish I have as that'll be a long > > > > list ;) > > > > Amber > > > > bill 1433 wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > Sorry, > > > > > > I lost count about 2 squares back! Just how many tanks do you have > > now? > > > > > > bill > > > > > > --- On Fri, 6/12/09, Amber Berglund <amber@... > <mailto:amber%40rose-fields.com> > > <mailto:amber%40rose-fields.com> > > > <mailto:amber%40rose-fields.com>> wrote: > > > > > > From: Amber Berglund <amber@... > <mailto:amber%40rose-fields.com> > > <mailto:amber%40rose-fields.com> > > > <mailto:amber%40rose-fields.com>> > > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Phosphate test kit and other API test kits > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > Date: Friday, June 12, 2009, 1:01 PM > > > > > > My hubby would kill me if I asked for another fish tank, especially a > > > big reef tank ;) LOL. > > > I already have a KH test kit actually but it's okay to have a spare. I > > > bought a KH and GH test kit a few months back. I plan on getting > > snails > > > and was considering getting shrimp in the future too, I saw pictures > > of > > > those blue fan shrimp (they're kind of large but non aggressive and > > they > > > filter food out of the water with their "fans"). I believe they're > > wood > > > shrimp. They're slightly spendy but a single shrimp but I think it > > would > > > be neat to have one in the 125 gallon since it has plenty of room > > (after > > > I take the catfish in on saturday, I already told them I'll be > > bringing > > > him in, just as soon as I find my net... I can only find the little > > one > > > and he definitely outgrew that over a month ago ;) LOL). > > > > > > Amber > > > > > > Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > Yep. When the price drops by $5.00, overnight, that is God's way of > > > saying > > > > to BUY IT NOW!!! LOL I just looked at what comes in the kit again > > and it > > > > has a KH test kit also which is something you can use on a regular > > > > basis as well. So it's actually a pretty good deal since you'll be > > > > getting > > > two kits > > > > that you don't have and need (Phosphate and KH=Carbonate Hardness) > > and a > > > > Nitrate kit you can use when your current kit runs out. Just don't > > > > open the Nitrate kit bottles until your current kit runs out or > > > > expires (or a > > > > > year > > > > goes by after first using it). I guess the Calcium kit could be used > > but > > > > it's not as likely unless you get into having lots of inverts. > > > > > > > > OR... now that you'll have a Master Reef Test Kit, it might be time > > > to set > > > > up a Reef Tank. Isn't there room in that back corner of the living > > > > room for another tank??? LOL > > > > > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>> > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>>> > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>> > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>>>> > > > > (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the > > right > > > > side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, > > > Month) > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On Behalf Of Amber Berglund > > > > Sent: Friday, June 12, 2009 10:13 AM > > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Phosphate test kit and other API test > > kits > > > > > > > > The reef kit is now on sale for 19.99, I think I'm going to get it > > > instead > > > > of a phosphate only test, I know that API test kits work well enough > > > > and I'm used to their color charts. I will know which ones are good > > > > for both saltwater and freshwater when they show up I guess ;) > > > > > > > > Amber > > > > > > > > Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Here's the link to the Reef Master Test Kit on MarineDepot.com. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > http://www.marinedepot.com/ps_ViewItem~category~Aquarium_Pharmaceutica > <http://www.marinedepot.com/ps_ViewItem%7Ecategory%7EAquarium_Pharmaceutica> > > > > <http://www.marinedepot.com/ps_ViewItem%7Ecategory%7EAquarium_Pharmaceutica > <http://www.marinedepot.com/ps_ViewItem%7Ecategory%7EAquarium_Pharmaceutica>> > > > > > > > > <http://www.marinedepot.com/ps_ViewItem%7Ecategory%7EAquarium_Pharmaceut > <http://www.marinedepot.com/ps_ViewItem%7Ecategory%7EAquarium_Pharmaceut> > > > <http://www.marinedepot.com/ps_ViewItem%7Ecategory%7EAquarium_Pharmaceut > <http://www.marinedepot.com/ps_ViewItem%7Ecategory%7EAquarium_Pharmaceut>> > > ica> > > > > > > > > > > > > > <http://www.marinedepot.com/ps_ViewItem%7Ecategory%7EAquarium_Pharmaceut > <http://www.marinedepot.com/ps_ViewItem%7Ecategory%7EAquarium_Pharmaceut> > > > <http://www.marinedepot.com/ps_ViewItem%7Ecategory%7EAquarium_Pharmaceut > <http://www.marinedepot.com/ps_ViewItem%7Ecategory%7EAquarium_Pharmaceut>> > > ica > > > > > > <http://www.marinedepot.com/ps_ViewItem%7Ecategory%7EAquarium_Pharmaceut > <http://www.marinedepot.com/ps_ViewItem%7Ecategory%7EAquarium_Pharmaceut> > > > <http://www.marinedepot.com/ps_ViewItem%7Ecategory%7EAquarium_Pharmaceut > <http://www.marinedepot.com/ps_ViewItem%7Ecategory%7EAquarium_Pharmaceut>> > > ica>> > > > > > ls_Ree > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > <http://www.marinedepot.com/ps_ViewItem%7Ecategory%7EAquarium_Pharmace > <http://www.marinedepot.com/ps_ViewItem%7Ecategory%7EAquarium_Pharmace> > > > <http://www.marinedepot.com/ps_ViewItem%7Ecategory%7EAquarium_Pharmace > <http://www.marinedepot.com/ps_ViewItem%7Ecategory%7EAquarium_Pharmace>> > > > > > > > > <http://www.marinedepot.com/ps_ViewItem%7Ecategory%7EAquarium_Pharmace > <http://www.marinedepot.com/ps_ViewItem%7Ecategory%7EAquarium_Pharmace> > > > <http://www.marinedepot.com/ps_ViewItem%7Ecategory%7EAquarium_Pharmace > <http://www.marinedepot.com/ps_ViewItem%7Ecategory%7EAquarium_Pharmace>>> > > > > > > > > > > <http://www.marinedepot.com/ps_ViewItem%7Ecategory%7EAquarium_Pharmace > <http://www.marinedepot.com/ps_ViewItem%7Ecategory%7EAquarium_Pharmace> > > > <http://www.marinedepot.com/ps_ViewItem%7Ecategory%7EAquarium_Pharmace > <http://www.marinedepot.com/ps_ViewItem%7Ecategory%7EAquarium_Pharmace>> > > > > > > > > <http://www.marinedepot.com/ps_ViewItem%7Ecategory%7EAquarium_Pharmace > <http://www.marinedepot.com/ps_ViewItem%7Ecategory%7EAquarium_Pharmace> > > > <http://www.marinedepot.com/ps_ViewItem%7Ecategory%7EAquarium_Pharmace > <http://www.marinedepot.com/ps_ViewItem%7Ecategory%7EAquarium_Pharmace>>>> > > > > > uticals_Ree> > > > > > > > f_Master_Test_Kit_Specialty_Test_Kits_for_Saltwater_Aquariums~vendor~A > > > > > quariu m_Pharmaceuticals~idProduct~AP3323~idCategory~FITKSI.html > > > > > > > > > > Presuming the link will break, go to > http://www.MarineDepot.com, <http://www.MarineDepot.com,> > > <http://www.MarineDepot.com, <http://www.MarineDepot.com,>> > > > <http://www.MarineDepot.com, <http://www.MarineDepot.com,> > <http://www.MarineDepot.com, <http://www.MarineDepot.com,>>> > > > > <http://www.MarineDepot.com, <http://www.MarineDepot.com,> > <http://www.MarineDepot.com, <http://www.MarineDepot.com,>> > > <http://www.MarineDepot.com, <http://www.MarineDepot.com,> > <http://www.MarineDepot.com, <http://www.MarineDepot.com,>>>> > > > > > <http://www.MarineDepot.com, <http://www.MarineDepot.com,> > <http://www.MarineDepot.com, <http://www.MarineDepot.com,>> > > <http://www.MarineDepot.com, <http://www.MarineDepot.com,> > <http://www.MarineDepot.com, <http://www.MarineDepot.com,>>> > > > <http://www.MarineDepot.com, <http://www.MarineDepot.com,> > <http://www.MarineDepot.com, <http://www.MarineDepot.com,>> > > <http://www.MarineDepot.com, <http://www.MarineDepot.com,> > <http://www.MarineDepot.com, <http://www.MarineDepot.com,>>>>> click on > > > > the Test Kits link on the left > > > > > side. Then click on the Aquarium Pharmaceuticals link. Then scroll > > > > > down to the Reef Test Kit for $24.99 (I'm presuming this is the > > one > > > > > you were talking about). I also see that the API Nitrate test kit > > is > > > > > for either FW or SW so maybe there are just different instructions > > and > > > > > a color card for the SW Nitrate Test Kit that you would not use > > and > > > > > you would have to use your FW Nitrate Test Kit instructions and > > color > > > > > card. > > > > > > > > > > I can't help you with brand recommendations since I've never had > > to > > > > > use a Phosphate Test Kit before. > > > > > > > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > > > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>> > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>>> > > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>> > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>>>> > > > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>> > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>>> > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>> > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>>>>> > > > > (Links to any articles referenced in > > > > > above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under > > Labels > > > > > and also under Archives by Year, Month) > > > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On Behalf Of Amber > > Berglund > > > > > Sent: Thursday, June 11, 2009 11:27 PM > > > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Phosphate test kit and other API test > > kits > > > > > > > > > > Well nevermind, I just went to go search for the test kit again > > and > > > > > now I can't even find it listed on the site, perhaps it was sold > > out > > > > > or something. > > > > > I still need some suggestions on good brands to get besides API ;) > > > > > They have a seachem multitest for 12.69. > > > > > > > > > > Amber > > > > > > > ------------------------<snip for some brevity>----------------------- > > > > ------------------------------------ > > > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, > Thank You. > > 74/`7.88.><((((:>.74/`7.88.74/`7.8><((((:> 8.74/`7.8. , .74/`7..><((((:> > > PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT > important to > > the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the > > SUBJECT > > LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- > > <:((((><.74/`7.88.74/`7.8<:((((><8.74/`7.8. , .74/`7..<:((((><74/`7.88. > > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. > > > > If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of > unsubscribing, you > > can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My Membership" > on the > > home page. > > > > Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:aquaticlife-digest%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:aquaticlife-digest%40yahoogroups.com> to receive the digest, > which > > includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email > > > > Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:aquaticlife-nomail%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:aquaticlife-nomail%40yahoogroups.com> for the No E-Mail option > > where > > you will still be able to read messages on the group and post replies. > > > > Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:aquaticlife-normal%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:aquaticlife-normal%40yahoogroups.com> to receive individual > > e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > ------------------------------------ > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. > ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> > PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT > important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message > MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- > <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. > > If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of unsubscribing, > you can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My > Membership" on the home page. > > Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:aquaticlife-digest%40yahoogroups.com> to receive the digest, > which includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email > > Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:aquaticlife-nomail%40yahoogroups.com> for the No E-Mail option > where you will still be able to read messages on the group and post > replies. > > Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:aquaticlife-normal%40yahoogroups.com> to receive individual > e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 40863	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 6/13/2009
Subject: Re: Phosphate test kit and other API test kits

Amber, What letter does "y" start with? A "w", of course (hint: why), so I hope you can understand why \\Steve// spelled it that yay. ;-) Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Amber Berglund Sent: Saturday, June 13, 2009 2:20 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Phosphate test kit and other API test kits Time of the wear huh? ;) LOL. Actually I'm in southern Alaska, we have somewhat normal daylight ;) just doesn't get very warm. Amber Steve Szabo wrote: > > > If you think we are weird now, just be glad that we are not living up > there with you, in the land of the midnight sun, and the never ending > darkness, depending on the time of the wear. > > \\Steve// > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On Behalf Of Amber Berglund > Sent: Saturday, June 13, 2009 12:59 AM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Phosphate test kit and other API test kits > > You guys are just a little weird ;) > I think I'm going to buy 2 test kits so I can compare just how > accurate the API phosphate test kit is ;) > > Amber > > Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > > > > > > LOL. And did you notice that the total number of tanks that Amber > > has is between 5 and 9??? And the total gallons adds up to 259G??? > > EEERRRIIiieeeeeeee. > > > > \\Steve//, don't forget to do your 59% PWC's this weekend. ;-) > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>> > > (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the > > right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by > > Year, > Month) > > > > P.S. - Yes, I fudged the total gallon figure... it's really only > 255G but > > 259 went so much better with the reply. LOL > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On Behalf Of Steve Szabo > > Sent: Friday, June 12, 2009 10:09 PM > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Phosphate test kit and other API test > > kits > > > > Bill, > > > > You will notice the appearance of the mystical 59 here. All those > > tanks with 5's in them and the new $19.99 test kit combo Amber is > > ordering. > > > > \\Steve// > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] > > On Behalf Of Amber Berglund > > Sent: Friday, June 12, 2009 4:53 PM > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Phosphate test kit and other API test > > kits > > > > Now the question is, how many of them have fish in them ;) I have 4 > tanks > > with current inhabitants, a 55 gallon empty to put my angel's into > > when the stand is finished being built (still waiting somewhat > > impatiently on > that > > one). And a spare 10 gallon for a QT tank, so in total I have 6 > > tanks, but 2 are empty... for now ;) I have a 10 gallon with guppy > > fry in it, and > a 10 > > gallon with a dwarf frog and a betta. > > then I have a 55 gallon community tank, and a 125 gallon with mixed > > community and a couple semi aggressive (not counting the angel's > > which will hopefully be moved soon, and the catfish is definitely > > going back to the fish store). > > Speaking of that catfish I must be feeding him well enough... he > > hasn't eaten any of the platy fry that are starting to get bigger, > > and I'd > think > > they'd be easy to spot since they're orange platy's ;) LOL. The fry > > are maybe 2-3 weeks old from the look of them, cute little guys, > > maybe 3 of them, one is solid orange and then I have a orange/white > > baby, and one baby that looks mostly white so far, will have to see > > how the colors turn out. I have adult platy's in different colors so > > I'm not > > > > sure which ones were the parents. I'm guessing my fat little > orange/white > > platy was the mom though, as she's not so fat anymore ;). > > My favorite platy's are the orange/black ones, my female hasn't > > fully matured yet though, she's my only orange/black one. > > I'm hoping to find hillstream loach fry in the tank some day, but I > won't > > know unless I start lifting all the ornaments and moving them > around, as I > > have read that they hide under rocks and ornaments until they're > > bigger (maybe half inch sized). > > Now don't go asking for a list of every fish I have as that'll be a > > long > > > > list ;) > > > > Amber > > > > bill 1433 wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > Sorry, > > > > > > I lost count about 2 squares back! Just how many tanks do you have > > now? > > > > > > bill

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 40864	From: bill 1433	Date: 6/13/2009
Subject: Re: Phosphate test kit and other API test kits

Yes Steve, I noticed immediately, but do you think Len got it? Bill --- On Fri, 6/12/09, Steve Szabo <steve@...> wrote: > From: Steve Szabo <steve@...> > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Phosphate test kit and other API test kits > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Date: Friday, June 12, 2009, 11:08 PM > Bill, > > You will notice the appearance of the mystical 59 here. All > those tanks > with 5's in them and the new $19.99 test kit combo Amber is > ordering. > > \\Steve// > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] > On Behalf Of Amber Berglund > Sent: Friday, June 12, 2009 4:53 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Phosphate test kit and other API > test kits > > Now the question is, how many of them have fish in them ;) > I have 4 tanks with current inhabitants, a 55 gallon empty > to put my > angel's into when the stand is finished being built (still > waiting > somewhat impatiently on that one). And a spare 10 gallon > for a QT tank, > so in total I have 6 tanks, but 2 are empty... for now ;) > I have a 10 gallon with guppy fry in it, and a 10 gallon > with a dwarf > frog and a betta. > then I have a 55 gallon community tank, and a 125 gallon > with mixed > community and a couple semi aggressive (not counting the > angel's which > will hopefully be moved soon, and the catfish is definitely > going back > to the fish store). > Speaking of that catfish I must be feeding him well > enough... he hasn't > eaten any of the platy fry that are starting to get bigger, > and I'd > think they'd be easy to spot since they're orange platy's > ;) LOL. The > fry are maybe 2-3 weeks old from the look of them, cute > little guys, > maybe 3 of them, one is solid orange and then I have a > orange/white > baby, and one baby that looks mostly white so far, will > have to see how > the colors turn out. I have adult platy's in different > colors so I'm not > > sure which ones were the parents. I'm guessing my fat > little > orange/white platy was the mom though, as she's not so fat > anymore ;). > My favorite platy's are the orange/black ones, my female > hasn't fully > matured yet though, she's my only orange/black one. > I'm hoping to find hillstream loach fry in the tank some > day, but I > won't know unless I start lifting all the ornaments and > moving them > around, as I have read that they hide under rocks and > ornaments until > they're bigger (maybe half inch sized). > Now don't go asking for a list of every fish I have as > that'll be a long > > list ;) > > > Amber > > bill 1433 wrote: > > > > > > > > Sorry, > >  > > I lost count about 2 squares back!  Just how many > tanks do you have > now? > >  > > bill > > > > --- On Fri, 6/12/09, Amber Berglund <amber@... > > > <mailto:amber%40rose-fields.com>> wrote: > > > > From: Amber Berglund <amber@... > > > <mailto:amber%40rose-fields.com>> > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Phosphate test kit and > other API test kits > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > Date: Friday, June 12, 2009, 1:01 PM > > > > My hubby would kill me if I asked for another fish > tank, especially a > > big reef tank ;) LOL. > > I already have a KH test kit actually but it's okay to > have a spare. I > > bought a KH and GH test kit a few months back. I plan > on getting > snails > > and was considering getting shrimp in the future too, > I saw pictures > of > > those blue fan shrimp (they're kind of large but non > aggressive and > they > > filter food out of the water with their "fans"). I > believe they're > wood > > shrimp. They're slightly spendy but a single shrimp > but I think it > would > > be neat to have one in the 125 gallon since it has > plenty of room > (after > > I take the catfish in on saturday, I already told them > I'll be > bringing > > him in, just as soon as I find my net... I can only > find the little > one > > and he definitely outgrew that over a month ago ;) > LOL). > > > > Amber > > > > Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > > > > > > > > > Yep. When the price drops by $5.00, overnight, > that is God's way of > > saying > > > to BUY IT NOW!!! LOL I just looked at what comes > in the kit again > and it > > > has a KH test kit also which is something you can > use on a regular > > > basis as > > > well. So it's actually a pretty good deal since > you'll be getting > > two kits > > > that you don't have and need (Phosphate and > KH=Carbonate Hardness) > and a > > > Nitrate kit you can use when your current kit > runs out. Just don't > > > open the > > > Nitrate kit bottles until your current kit runs > out or expires (or a > > > year > > > goes by after first using it). I guess the > Calcium kit could be used > but > > > it's not as likely unless you get into having > lots of inverts. > > > > > > OR... now that you'll have a Master Reef Test > Kit, it might be time > > to set > > > up a Reef Tank. Isn't there room in that back > corner of the living > > > room for > > > another tank??? LOL > > > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>> > > > (Links to any articles referenced in above reply > are listed on the > right > > > side, alphabetically under Labels and also under > Archives by Year, > > Month) > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On > > > Behalf Of Amber Berglund > > > Sent: Friday, June 12, 2009 10:13 AM > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Phosphate test kit and > other API test > kits > > > > > > The reef kit is now on sale for 19.99, I think > I'm going to get it > > instead > > > of a phosphate only test, I know that API test > kits work well enough > > > and I'm > > > used to their color charts. I will know which > ones are good for both > > > saltwater and freshwater when they show up I > guess ;) > > > > > > Amber > > > > > > Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > Here's the link to the Reef Master Test Kit > on MarineDepot.com. > > > > > > > > > > > > > http://www.marinedepot.com/ps_ViewItem~category~Aquarium_Pharmaceutica > > > > <http://www.marinedepot.com/ps_ViewItem%7Ecategory%7EAquarium_Pharmaceut > ica> > > > > > > > > <http://www.marinedepot.com/ps_ViewItem%7Ecategory%7EAquarium_Pharmaceut > ica > > > <http://www.marinedepot.com/ps_ViewItem%7Ecategory%7EAquarium_Pharmaceut > ica>> > > > > ls_Ree > > > > > > > > > <http://www.marinedepot.com/ps_ViewItem%7Ecategory%7EAquarium_Pharmace > > > > <http://www.marinedepot.com/ps_ViewItem%7Ecategory%7EAquarium_Pharmace> > > > > > <http://www.marinedepot.com/ps_ViewItem%7Ecategory%7EAquarium_Pharmace > > > > <http://www.marinedepot.com/ps_ViewItem%7Ecategory%7EAquarium_Pharmace>> > > > > uticals_Ree> > > > > > f_Master_Test_Kit_Specialty_Test_Kits_for_Saltwater_Aquariums~vendor~A > > > > quariu > m_Pharmaceuticals~idProduct~AP3323~idCategory~FITKSI.html > > > > > > > > Presuming the link will break, go to http://www.MarineDepot.com, > > <http://www.MarineDepot.com,> > > > <http://www.MarineDepot.com, <http://www.MarineDepot.com,>> > > > > <http://www.MarineDepot.com, <http://www.MarineDepot.com,> > > <http://www.MarineDepot.com, <http://www.MarineDepot.com,>>> click on > > > the Test Kits link on the left > > > > side. Then click on the Aquarium > Pharmaceuticals link. Then scroll > > > > down to the Reef Test Kit for $24.99 (I'm > presuming this is the > one > > > > you were talking about). I also see that the > API Nitrate test kit > is > > > > for either FW or SW so maybe there are just > different instructions > and > > > > a color card for the SW Nitrate Test Kit > that you would not use > and > > > > you would have to use your FW Nitrate Test > Kit instructions and > color > > > > card. > > > > > > > > I can't help you with brand recommendations > since I've never had > to > > > > use a Phosphate Test Kit before. > > > > > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>> > > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>>> > > > (Links to any articles referenced in > > > > above reply are listed on the right side, > alphabetically under > Labels > > > > and also under Archives by Year, Month) > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On Behalf Of > Amber > Berglund > > > > Sent: Thursday, June 11, 2009 11:27 PM > > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Phosphate test > kit and other API test > kits > > > > > > > > Well nevermind, I just went to go search for > the test kit again > and > > > > now I can't even find it listed on the site, > perhaps it was sold > out > > > > or something. > > > > I still need some suggestions on good brands > to get besides API ;) > > > > They have a seachem multitest for 12.69. > > > > > > > > Amber > > > > > ------------------------<snip for some > brevity>----------------------- > > > ------------------------------------ > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when > replying, Thank You. > ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> > ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> > PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is > NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of > the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new > subject (was re: old subject)" <- > <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. > , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. > > If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of > unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by > clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the home page.  > > Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com > to receive the digest, which includes up to 25 posts at a > time in a single email > > Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com > for the No E-Mail option where you will still be able to > read messages on the group and post replies. > > Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com > to receive individual e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links > > >     mailto:AquaticLife-fullfeatured@yahoogroups.com > > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 40865	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 6/13/2009
Subject: Re: Phosphate test kit and other API test kits

Yeah, I got it but I was too busy replying as to what wear it yas. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of bill 1433 Sent: Saturday, June 13, 2009 9:22 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Phosphate test kit and other API test kits Yes Steve, I noticed immediately, but do you think Len got it? Bill --- On Fri, 6/12/09, Steve Szabo <steve@...> wrote: > From: Steve Szabo <steve@...> > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Phosphate test kit and other API test kits > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Date: Friday, June 12, 2009, 11:08 PM > Bill, > > You will notice the appearance of the mystical 59 here. All those > tanks with 5's in them and the new $19.99 test kit combo Amber is > ordering. > > \\Steve// > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] > On Behalf Of Amber Berglund > Sent: Friday, June 12, 2009 4:53 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Phosphate test kit and other API test kits > > Now the question is, how many of them have fish in them ;) I have 4 > tanks with current inhabitants, a 55 gallon empty to put my angel's > into when the stand is finished being built (still waiting somewhat > impatiently on that one). And a spare 10 gallon for a QT tank, so in > total I have 6 tanks, but 2 are empty... for now ;) I have a 10 gallon > with guppy fry in it, and a 10 gallon with a dwarf frog and a betta. > then I have a 55 gallon community tank, and a 125 gallon with mixed > community and a couple semi aggressive (not counting the angel's which > will hopefully be moved soon, and the catfish is definitely going back > to the fish store). > Speaking of that catfish I must be feeding him well enough... he > hasn't eaten any of the platy fry that are starting to get bigger, and > I'd think they'd be easy to spot since they're orange platy's > ;) LOL. The > fry are maybe 2-3 weeks old from the look of them, cute little guys, > maybe 3 of them, one is solid orange and then I have a orange/white > baby, and one baby that looks mostly white so far, will have to see > how the colors turn out. I have adult platy's in different colors so > I'm not > > sure which ones were the parents. I'm guessing my fat little > orange/white platy was the mom though, as she's not so fat anymore ;). > My favorite platy's are the orange/black ones, my female hasn't fully > matured yet though, she's my only orange/black one. > I'm hoping to find hillstream loach fry in the tank some day, but I > won't know unless I start lifting all the ornaments and moving them > around, as I have read that they hide under rocks and ornaments until > they're bigger (maybe half inch sized). > Now don't go asking for a list of every fish I have as that'll be a > long > > list ;) > > > Amber > > bill 1433 wrote: > > > > > > > > Sorry, > >  > > I lost count about 2 squares back!  Just how many > tanks do you have > now? > >  > > bill > > > > --- On Fri, 6/12/09, Amber Berglund <amber@... > > > <mailto:amber%40rose-fields.com>> wrote: > > > > From: Amber Berglund <amber@... > > > <mailto:amber%40rose-fields.com>> > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Phosphate test kit and > other API test kits > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > Date: Friday, June 12, 2009, 1:01 PM > > > > My hubby would kill me if I asked for another fish > tank, especially a > > big reef tank ;) LOL. > > I already have a KH test kit actually but it's okay to > have a spare. I > > bought a KH and GH test kit a few months back. I plan > on getting > snails > > and was considering getting shrimp in the future too, > I saw pictures > of > > those blue fan shrimp (they're kind of large but non > aggressive and > they > > filter food out of the water with their "fans"). I > believe they're > wood > > shrimp. They're slightly spendy but a single shrimp > but I think it > would > > be neat to have one in the 125 gallon since it has > plenty of room > (after > > I take the catfish in on saturday, I already told them > I'll be > bringing > > him in, just as soon as I find my net... I can only > find the little > one > > and he definitely outgrew that over a month ago ;) > LOL). > > > > Amber > > > > Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > > > > > > > > > Yep. When the price drops by $5.00, overnight, > that is God's way of > > saying > > > to BUY IT NOW!!! LOL I just looked at what comes > in the kit again > and it > > > has a KH test kit also which is something you can > use on a regular > > > basis as > > > well. So it's actually a pretty good deal since > you'll be getting > > two kits > > > that you don't have and need (Phosphate and > KH=Carbonate Hardness) > and a > > > Nitrate kit you can use when your current kit > runs out. Just don't > > > open the > > > Nitrate kit bottles until your current kit runs > out or expires (or a > > > year > > > goes by after first using it). I guess the > Calcium kit could be used > but > > > it's not as likely unless you get into having > lots of inverts. > > > > > > OR... now that you'll have a Master Reef Test > Kit, it might be time > > to set > > > up a Reef Tank. Isn't there room in that back > corner of the living > > > room for > > > another tank??? LOL > > > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>> > > > (Links to any articles referenced in above reply > are listed on the > right > > > side, alphabetically under Labels and also under > Archives by Year, > > Month)

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 40866	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 6/13/2009
Subject: Abstracts for the Joint Meeting of Ichthyologists and Herpetologists

The link below will take you to a page that will then link to 4 PDF files containing abstracts of papers that will be presented at this meeting. There probably is not much here that would interest the casual aquarist, but those who take this fish thing seriously may find some stuff of interest to them. Eventually, these papers will be available somewhere on the Internet, though some may be behind the walls of subscription fees or pay per document fees. Nevertheless, it gives a view of what scientists are doing and researching. http://www.dce.k-state.edu/conf/jointmeeting/abstracts.shtml Some sample titles: Stress-related Functional Morphology of the Opercular Bone in Suction Feeding Fishes (Don't be reading this one and tell me how it sucks.) Paleogeographic Dating Indicates Paleogene Origins for the Species-rich Amazonian Ichthyofauna (some will probably dig this paper.) Loricarioid Catfishes: Species Diversity and Phylogeny (I guess that there is more than one pleco.) Phylogeography of the Knife-Edged Livebearer, Alfaro cultratus (Cyprinodontiformes: Poeciliidae), in Costa Rica (When you forget to bring aknife, would this fish do the job?) And, many, many more--over 800 pages worth. \\Steve//

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 40867	From: toddswoman496861@aim.com	Date: 6/14/2009
Subject: about aquarium stands

I just got a used one today for my 30 gallon tank. However, it is too long for my tank. I was wondering if I put a 1/4 inch piece of plywood under it if that would be strong enough to hold it? I figure the extra length I can use as a shelf to put my fish food etc on Kate Dale [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 40868	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 6/14/2009
Subject: Re: about aquarium stands

why do you need a piece of plywood under it? Is it a metal stand that will tear up carpet or anything? Most wood stands don't need more wood under them but I guess I need to see the stand to fully understand ;) Amber toddswoman496861@... wrote: > > > > I just got a used one today for my 30 gallon tank. However, it is too > long for my tank. I was wondering if I put a 1/4 inch piece of plywood > under it if that would be strong enough to hold it? I figure the extra > length I can use as a shelf to put my fish food etc on > > Kate Dale > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 40869	From: toddswoman496861@aim.com	Date: 6/14/2009
Subject: Re: about aquarium stands

it is a metal stand that is too long for the tank hence the need to put plywood under it as it has just a metal ledge to hold the edges of the tank nothing supporting the glass bottom. so i need to put plywood under the tank but on the ledge the tank sits on so all edges will be covered Kate Dale -----Original Message----- From: Amber Berglund <amber@...> To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Sun, Jun 14, 2009 1:46 pm Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] about aquarium stands why do you need a piece of plywood under it? Is it a metal stand that will tear up carpet or anything? Most wood stands don't need more wood under them but I guess I need to see the stand to fully understand ;) Amber toddswoman496861@... wrote: > > > > I just got a used one today for my 30 gallon tank. However, it is too > long for my tank. I was wondering if I put a 1/4 inch piece of plywood > under it if that would be strong enough to hold it? I figure the extra > length I can use as a shelf to put my fish food etc on > > Kate Dale > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > ------------------------------------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post,20DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the home page. Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com to receive the digest, which includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com for the No E-Mail option where you will still be able to read messages on the group and post replies. Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com to receive individual e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 40870	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 6/14/2009
Subject: Re: about aquarium stands

Ahh, I have a stand like that for 125 gallon tank and it also has 2x4's under the legs so they don't poke holes in my carpet, that's what I thought you were planning, I forgot that the tank sits on a lip on top ;) hehe. Lenny should have a better idea of how thick of wood you'll want to use on top of the stand for support, a 30 gallon tank is roughly 300 lbs full of water, a little more with rocks and stuff. I would go thicker rather than thinner myself ;) My 55 gallon upstairs has a wooden home made frame (that sometimes makes me nervous as it's not as well supported as the stand that Lenny built, I plan on reinforcing it as soon as I get the wood to do so, it's been holding the tank for about 10 years now with no accidents but I'd rather not test my luck, LOL), the top part of the stand is about a half an inch thick and it's supported underneith by 2x4's in a square where the tank actually sits, the top of the stand has a lip on it so you can set stuff around the tank, but no shelf under which would be nice ;). I would probably use at least a half inch piece of plywood around the lip myself, but for a 30 gallon tank a 1/4 inch might be sufficient, perhaps one of our more qualified stand builders out there can help ;) I would say that if it bends when you stand on it then I'd use something thicker ;) LOL Amber toddswoman496861@... wrote: > > > > it is a metal stand that is too long for the tank hence the need to > put plywood under it as it has just a metal ledge to hold the edges of > the tank nothing supporting the glass bottom. > so i need to put plywood under the tank but on the ledge the tank sits > on so all edges will be covered > > Kate Dale > > -----Original Message----- > From: Amber Berglund <amber@... > <mailto:amber%40rose-fields.com>> > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Sent: Sun, Jun 14, 2009 1:46 pm > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] about aquarium stands > > why do you need a piece of plywood under it? Is it a metal stand that > will tear up carpet or anything? Most wood stands don't need more wood > under them but I guess I need to see the stand to fully understand ;) > > Amber > > toddswoman496861@... <mailto:toddswoman496861%40aim.com> wrote: > > > > > > > > I just got a used one today for my 30 gallon tank. However, it is too > > long for my tank. I was wondering if I put a 1/4 inch piece of plywood > > under it if that would be strong enough to hold it? I figure the extra > > length I can use as a shelf to put my fish food etc on > > > > Kate Dale > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > > > ------------------------------------ > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. > ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> > PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post,20DELETE all TEXT that is NOT > important to the > reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the > SUBJECT LINE -> > i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- > <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. > > If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of unsubscribing, > you can > change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the > home > page. > > Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:aquaticlife-digest%40yahoogroups.com> to receive the digest, > which > includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email > > Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:aquaticlife-nomail%40yahoogroups.com> for the No E-Mail option > where you > will still be able to read messages on the group and post replies. > > Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:aquaticlife-normal%40yahoogroups.com> to receive individual > e-mails.Yahoo! > Groups Links > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 40871	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 6/14/2009
Subject: Re: One algae after the next...

Okay after using the flourish excel for several days now I can already see an improvement in the growth of the plants and a lot less hair algae is left in the tank, so the flourish is doing something right ;) I still notice that my cory's no longer swim up at the top levels of the fish tank, when they surface is it possible that they are surfacing for some form of carbon rather than oxygen? The flourish puts carbon in the water and that's the only change I've done in the tank (besides cleanings), they're still active little guys but they don't swim on the top level of the tank at all anymore, they do surface for "air" now and then, but they spend all their time on the gravel and ornaments now, searching for food. If they weren't very active at all I'd worry, but they're still very active little guys, they just are different in their activities. Amber Amber Berglund wrote: > > > Thanks for the tip, I will keep that in mind if the flourish excel > doesn't do anything for the 55 gallon, I think I'm going to try it out > on the ornaments from the 125 gallon though, I'm tired of all the BB > algae in the tank... although it's probably nice and soft to the fish ;) > > Amber > > Donna Ransome wrote: > > > > > > I keep a bucket of hydrogen peroxide solution near tank when doing PWC. > > Rocks come out and go in bucket during PWC. Hydrogen peroxide (tiny > > amount) > > is drizzled on my in tank background. Replace and refill as usual. > This is > > done weekly until under control and then as required. The stuff starts > > shedding the next day. > > > > _____ > > > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On > > Behalf Of Amber Berglund > > Sent: Wednesday, June 10, 2009 11:08 AM > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] One algae after the next... > > > > I tried that trick on the black beard algae and I gave up after a week > > or so as it wasn't doing anything for it. I suppose I could take all the > > ornaments out that have the BB algae growing on it and dunk it in > > hydrogen peroxide and see if it kills it then. I have a lot of it > > growing on plants too, but I did haircuts last night so hopefully I will > > see new growth soon. > > > > Amber > > > > Donna Ransome wrote: > > > > > > > > > Try hydrogen peroxide, it worked for me. My hair algae does not grow > > > on the > > > glass though, when I had that bright green stuff on the glass I > > > thought that > > > was beard algae. Anyway I have brush and hair and hydrogen peroxide > > > gets it > > > off surfaces (but not plants). For that I had success with Vallisneria > > > until my snails killed it. > > > > > > I've gotten the algae under control on the various surfaces, and I > just > > > replanted the Vallisneria to outcompete it so it will leave my slower > > > growing plants alone. > > > > > > My bristlenose plecos and zebra nerite snails also seem to do a pretty > > > good > > > job on the glass now. I just added the nerites a week or so ago. > > > > > > _____ > > > > > > From: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > yahoogroups.com > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > [mailto:AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > yahoogroups.com > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On > > > Behalf Of Lenny V. aka GoldLenny > > > Sent: Wednesday, June 10, 2009 2:00 AM > > > To: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > yahoogroups.com > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] One algae after the next... > > > > > > Yes, THE FAQ's on the Seachem site actually addresses using/overdosing > > > Excel > > > to combat algae and many fish keepers have reported success with it. > > BUT.. > > > if you have a phosphate problem that can be solved, that would be the > > > better > > > option as constant dosing of Excel on multiple tanks can get > expensive. > > > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny. > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>>> > > blogspot.com > > > <http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>>> > blogspot.com>> > > blogspot.com > > > (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the > right > > > side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, > > Month) > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > From: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > yahoogroups.com > > > [mailto:AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > yahoogroups.com] > > > On > > > Behalf Of Amber Berglund > > > Sent: Wednesday, June 10, 2009 12:18 AM > > > To: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > yahoogroups.com > > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] One algae after the next... > > > > > > The loaches are in the tank with black beard algae, and the 55 gallon > > > doesn't have much surface tension it has a rena filstar xp 4 on > it. The > > > duckweed is still alive it's just getting attached to the hair algae > > > and the > > > parts that get attached die off. It's a battle of the plants and algae > > > in my > > > tanks ;) The 55 gallon only grows "regular" green algae and the black > > > beard > > > algae, I have read on a few sites that flourish excel is used to help > > > combat > > > algae issues as it will help the plants grow better and it also has an > > > ingredient in it that harms the algae (I forget what it's called off > > > the top > > > of my head). I was giving it a shot in the 55 gallon to see if it > helps > > > against the hair algae, if it helps I may try it on the 125 gallon but > > > that's a lot of flourish to be dosing with before trying it in a > smaller > > > quantity ;) > > > > > > I will look at getting a phosphate test kit to see what my > > phosphates are > > > at. > > > > > > Amber > > > > > > Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > I think I told you before that duckweed doesn't like a lot of > surface > > > > agitation and will not reproduce well in those tanks. It grows THICK > > > > in my Cherry shrimp tank and I regularly put some into my goldfish > > > > tank for them to munch on but the duckweed will not proliferate in > > > > that tank due to the surface agitation and it being a snack to the > > > goldfish. > > > > > > > > See my other reply in the Golden Nesaea thread, about your algae > > issues. > > > > > > > > I thought the Hillstream Loaches were supposed to be good algae > > > > eaters? Or is this not in their tank? > > > > > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny. > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>>> > > blogspot.com > > > <http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>>> > blogspot.com>> > > blogspot.com > > > > > > > <http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny. > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>>> > > blogspot.com > > > <http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>>> > blogspot.com>> > > blogspot.com> (Links to > > > any articles referenced in > > > > above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under > Labels > > > > and also under Archives by Year, Month) > > > > > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > > From: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > yahoogroups.com > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > [mailto:AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > yahoogroups.com > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On Behalf Of Amber Berglund > > > > Sent: Tuesday, June 09, 2009 4:08 PM > > > > To: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > yahoogroups.com > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > Subject: [AquaticLife] One algae after the next... > > > > > > > > Okay so all the fish are healthy in the 55 gallon and I haven't > added > > > > any new plants for a few weeks at least, maybe more. I glued some of > > > > the java moss to rocks though instead of waiting for it to fully > > > > attach to my drift wood pieces. My duck weed is starting to die off > > > > and the hair algae is going crazy. I'm just thankful that I can see > > > > the fish though > > > > ;) It's not suspended in the water so I can deal with it, LOL. I'm > > > > wondering how long it is going to take for the tank to even > itself out > > > > and the algae to start dieing off. I've had this hair algae for > > > > several weeks now, it's kind of pretty to watch wave in the water > > > > flow, but it's invading my plants > > > > ;) . Should I try adding more plants or wait it out some more? There > > > > are 8 potted plants in the tank and java moss on several rocks > and the > > > > driftwood pieces and duckweed floating on top, I'm wondering if the > > > > hair algae is using up the nutrients that the duckweed normally does > > > > and that's why it's starting to die off? > > > > > > > > I got a lily for my 125 gallon tank a few weeks ago and it's doing > > > > great, it's a dwarf lily so it wont invade the tank ;). It > already has > > > > a leaf floating on top and is working on 2 more (they are just > shoots > > > > with a new leaf on the tip right now). Do all lily's bloom or only > > > > some varieties? I'm not sure what kind specifically it is as my > LFS is > > > > awful about naming the plants and this last time they had pond > plants > > > > mixed in with their normal aquatic plants and that's how I got the > > > > lily. I've read that lily's are very good nutrient eaters, is this > > > > correct? Either way it LOVES my walstad tank > > > > ;) LOL. I'm thinking that the 125 gallon tank has finally evened out > > > > and the black beard algae is no longer taking over everything so the > > > > plants must be starting to keep up with the nutrients I would assume > > > > ;). I've been slowly adding plants to the tank over the last few > > > > months though, I think I've added at least 7 in the last 3 > months and > > > > all of them are doing good. > > > > Unfortunately my awful LFS sold me a non-aquatic plant *sigh*, I > > > > looked it up on plantgeek and it turns out it's called a pineapple > > > > plant and it slowly melts until it dies off, I would assume it's > > > > another plant that goes on the edge of a pond where the water is not > > > > going to submerge the plant. > > > > Unfortunately I can't research plants before I go their as they > get in > > > > a shipment and all the plants are gone in the first 2 days, so you > > > > have to buy and run so to speak ;) LOL. The worker there will hold > > > > plants for me though, if she knows I'm looking for certain ones, > so I > > > > try to tell her what kinds I'm looking for before they get their > next > > > > plant shipment in. She held onto my dwarf baby tears for me and > > > > wouldn't let anyone buy them, LOL. > > > > It's good to have friends at the LFS ;) > > > > > > > > Amber > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 40872	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 6/14/2009
Subject: Re: about aquarium stands

I'd probably use a single piece of wood cut to fit the stand and appropriately stained or painted, and the height of the edging, if there is one, or 1/2" thick, to cover the top of the stand. This will help ensure that the weight of the tank is equally distributed on all edges of the tank. If you were just to place the tank on the stand, which is normal when you have a stand that fits the tank, the sides of the tank would not be supported, and could lead to problems, later one, with leaks, and/or cracking of the glass. If you go the plywood route, I'd probably want to use some edging on the plywood, if the edges were visible, to hide it from those viewing the tank, since you probably have it in a public area of the house, and not hidden away in a fishroom somewhere. Display tanks are all about presentation--good stand, good tank, good décor, good fish. \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of toddswoman496861@... Sent: Sunday, June 14, 2009 1:54 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] about aquarium stands it is a metal stand that is too long for the tank hence the need to put plywood under it as it has just a metal ledge to hold the edges of the tank nothing supporting the glass bottom. so i need to put plywood under the tank but on the ledge the tank sits on so all edges will be covered Kate Dale -----Original Message----- From: Amber Berglund <amber@...> To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Sun, Jun 14, 2009 1:46 pm Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] about aquarium stands why do you need a piece of plywood under it? Is it a metal stand that will tear up carpet or anything? Most wood stands don't need more wood under them but I guess I need to see the stand to fully understand ;) Amber toddswoman496861@... wrote: > > > > I just got a used one today for my 30 gallon tank. However, it is too > long for my tank. I was wondering if I put a 1/4 inch piece of plywood > under it if that would be strong enough to hold it? I figure the extra > length I can use as a shelf to put my fish food etc on > > Kate Dale > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > ------------------------------------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post,20DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the home page. Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com to receive the digest, which includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com for the No E-Mail option where you will still be able to read messages on the group and post replies. Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com to receive individual e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] ------------------------------------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. `..><((((>.`..`.><((((> .`.. , .`..><((((> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <((((><.`..`.<((((><.`.. , .`..<((((><`.. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the home page. Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com to receive the digest, which includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com for the No E-Mail option where you will still be able to read messages on the group and post replies. Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com to receive individual e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 40873	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 6/14/2009
Subject: Re: about aquarium stands

When living on the second floor of an old New England farmhouse, I placed hardwood flooring under my stands, running perpendicular to the hardwood flooring already in place. This was meant to also help in distributing the weight of the tanks, hoping the floor would not give way, giving the tanks a grand entrance for those living under me. \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Amber Berglund Sent: Sunday, June 14, 2009 1:47 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] about aquarium stands why do you need a piece of plywood under it? Is it a metal stand that will tear up carpet or anything? Most wood stands don't need more wood under them but I guess I need to see the stand to fully understand ;) Amber toddswoman496861@... wrote: > > > > I just got a used one today for my 30 gallon tank. However, it is too > long for my tank. I was wondering if I put a 1/4 inch piece of plywood > under it if that would be strong enough to hold it? I figure the extra > length I can use as a shelf to put my fish food etc on > > Kate Dale > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > ------------------------------------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the home page. Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com to receive the digest, which includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com for the No E-Mail option where you will still be able to read messages on the group and post replies. Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com to receive individual e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 40874	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 6/14/2009
Subject: Re: about aquarium stands

I have my 55 gallon upstairs and occasionally I worry that my floor won't hold the weight but I figure at the same time it's only a 55 gallon too, if it holds the weight of a bed and other furniture the floor should be built well enough to hold a 600lb fish tank ;) I think I would like to put something under the tank though, the carpet is uneven and it scares me when I touch the tank and it moves a little ;) Needless to say, I don't touch the tank as much as possible, at least I don't push on it, hehe. I definitely agree that a bunch of water in your neighbors apartment would not be looked at in a nice way ;) Good thing that below me is still my condo ;) Amber Steve Szabo wrote: > > > When living on the second floor of an old New England farmhouse, I > placed hardwood flooring under my stands, running perpendicular to the > hardwood flooring already in place. This was meant to also help in > distributing the weight of the tanks, hoping the floor would not give > way, giving the tanks a grand entrance for those living under me. > > \\Steve// > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On Behalf Of Amber Berglund > Sent: Sunday, June 14, 2009 1:47 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] about aquarium stands > > why do you need a piece of plywood under it? Is it a metal stand that > will tear up carpet or anything? Most wood stands don't need more wood > under them but I guess I need to see the stand to fully understand ;) > > Amber > > toddswoman496861@... <mailto:toddswoman496861%40aim.com> wrote: > > > > > > > > I just got a used one today for my 30 gallon tank. However, it is too > > long for my tank. I was wondering if I put a 1/4 inch piece of plywood > > under it if that would be strong enough to hold it? I figure the extra > > length I can use as a shelf to put my fish food etc on > > > > Kate Dale > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > > > ------------------------------------ > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. > ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> > PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT > important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message > MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- > <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. > > If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of unsubscribing, > you can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My > Membership" on the home page. > > Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:aquaticlife-digest%40yahoogroups.com> to receive the digest, > which includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email > > Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:aquaticlife-nomail%40yahoogroups.com> for the No E-Mail option > where you will still be able to read messages on the group and post > replies. > > Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:aquaticlife-normal%40yahoogroups.com> to receive individual > e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 40875	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 6/14/2009
Subject: Re: One algae after the next...

Amber, Your corys are just surfacing for a breath of fresh air, as they and their ancestors have been doing for thousands of years. The change may be more the nitrate level or a lessening of some other dissolved organic now that your plants are growing and the algae is disappearing. \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Amber Berglund Sent: Sunday, June 14, 2009 2:08 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] One algae after the next... Okay after using the flourish excel for several days now I can already see an improvement in the growth of the plants and a lot less hair algae is left in the tank, so the flourish is doing something right ;) I still notice that my cory's no longer swim up at the top levels of the fish tank, when they surface is it possible that they are surfacing for some form of carbon rather than oxygen? The flourish puts carbon in the water and that's the only change I've done in the tank (besides cleanings), they're still active little guys but they don't swim on the top level of the tank at all anymore, they do surface for "air" now and then, but they spend all their time on the gravel and ornaments now, searching for food. If they weren't very active at all I'd worry, but they're still very active little guys, they just are different in their activities. Amber Amber Berglund wrote: > > > Thanks for the tip, I will keep that in mind if the flourish excel > doesn't do anything for the 55 gallon, I think I'm going to try it out > on the ornaments from the 125 gallon though, I'm tired of all the BB > algae in the tank... although it's probably nice and soft to the fish ;) > > Amber > > Donna Ransome wrote: > > > > > > I keep a bucket of hydrogen peroxide solution near tank when doing PWC. > > Rocks come out and go in bucket during PWC. Hydrogen peroxide (tiny > > amount) > > is drizzled on my in tank background. Replace and refill as usual. > This is > > done weekly until under control and then as required. The stuff starts > > shedding the next day. > > > > _____ > > > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On > > Behalf Of Amber Berglund > > Sent: Wednesday, June 10, 2009 11:08 AM > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] One algae after the next... > > > > I tried that trick on the black beard algae and I gave up after a week > > or so as it wasn't doing anything for it. I suppose I could take all the > > ornaments out that have the BB algae growing on it and dunk it in > > hydrogen peroxide and see if it kills it then. I have a lot of it > > growing on plants too, but I did haircuts last night so hopefully I will > > see new growth soon. > > > > Amber > > > > Donna Ransome wrote: > > > > > > > > > Try hydrogen peroxide, it worked for me. My hair algae does not grow > > > on the > > > glass though, when I had that bright green stuff on the glass I > > > thought that > > > was beard algae. Anyway I have brush and hair and hydrogen peroxide > > > gets it > > > off surfaces (but not plants). For that I had success with Vallisneria > > > until my snails killed it. > > > > > > I've gotten the algae under control on the various surfaces, and I > just > > > replanted the Vallisneria to outcompete it so it will leave my slower > > > growing plants alone. > > > > > > My bristlenose plecos and zebra nerite snails also seem to do a pretty > > > good > > > job on the glass now. I just added the nerites a week or so ago. > > > > > > _____ > > > > > > From: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > yahoogroups.com > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > [mailto:AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > yahoogroups.com > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On > > > Behalf Of Lenny V. aka GoldLenny > > > Sent: Wednesday, June 10, 2009 2:00 AM > > > To: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > yahoogroups.com > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] One algae after the next... > > > > > > Yes, THE FAQ's on the Seachem site actually addresses using/overdosing > > > Excel > > > to combat algae and many fish keepers have reported success with it. > > BUT.. > > > if you have a phosphate problem that can be solved, that would be the > > > better > > > option as constant dosing of Excel on multiple tanks can get > expensive. > > > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny. > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>>> > > blogspot.com > > > <http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>>> > blogspot.com>> > > blogspot.com > > > (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the > right > > > side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, > > Month) > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > From: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > yahoogroups.com > > > [mailto:AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > yahoogroups.com] > > > On > > > Behalf Of Amber Berglund > > > Sent: Wednesday, June 10, 2009 12:18 AM > > > To: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > yahoogroups.com > > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] One algae after the next... > > > > > > The loaches are in the tank with black beard algae, and the 55 gallon > > > doesn't have much surface tension it has a rena filstar xp 4 on > it. The > > > duckweed is still alive it's just getting attached to the hair algae > > > and the > > > parts that get attached die off. It's a battle of the plants and algae > > > in my > > > tanks ;) The 55 gallon only grows "regular" green algae and the black > > > beard > > > algae, I have read on a few sites that flourish excel is used to help > > > combat > > > algae issues as it will help the plants grow better and it also has an > > > ingredient in it that harms the algae (I forget what it's called off > > > the top > > > of my head). I was giving it a shot in the 55 gallon to see if it > helps > > > against the hair algae, if it helps I may try it on the 125 gallon but > > > that's a lot of flourish to be dosing with before trying it in a > smaller > > > quantity ;) > > > > > > I will look at getting a phosphate test kit to see what my > > phosphates are > > > at. > > > > > > Amber > > > > > > Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > I think I told you before that duckweed doesn't like a lot of > surface > > > > agitation and will not reproduce well in those tanks. It grows THICK > > > > in my Cherry shrimp tank and I regularly put some into my goldfish > > > > tank for them to munch on but the duckweed will not proliferate in > > > > that tank due to the surface agitation and it being a snack to the > > > goldfish. > > > > > > > > See my other reply in the Golden Nesaea thread, about your algae > > issues. > > > > > > > > I thought the Hillstream Loaches were supposed to be good algae > > > > eaters? Or is this not in their tank? > > > > > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny. > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>>> > > blogspot.com > > > <http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>>> > blogspot.com>> > > blogspot.com > > > > > > > <http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny. > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>>> > > blogspot.com > > > <http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>>> > blogspot.com>> > > blogspot.com> (Links to > > > any articles referenced in > > > > above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under > Labels > > > > and also under Archives by Year, Month) > > > > > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > > From: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > yahoogroups.com > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > [mailto:AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > yahoogroups.com > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On Behalf Of Amber Berglund > > > > Sent: Tuesday, June 09, 2009 4:08 PM > > > > To: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > yahoogroups.com > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > Subject: [AquaticLife] One algae after the next... > > > > > > > > Okay so all the fish are healthy in the 55 gallon and I haven't > added > > > > any new plants for a few weeks at least, maybe more. I glued some of > > > > the java moss to rocks though instead of waiting for it to fully > > > > attach to my drift wood pieces. My duck weed is starting to die off > > > > and the hair algae is going crazy. I'm just thankful that I can see > > > > the fish though > > > > ;) It's not suspended in the water so I can deal with it, LOL. I'm > > > > wondering how long it is going to take for the tank to even > itself out > > > > and the algae to start dieing off. I've had this hair algae for > > > > several weeks now, it's kind of pretty to watch wave in the water > > > > flow, but it's invading my plants > > > > ;) . Should I try adding more plants or wait it out some more? There > > > > are 8 potted plants in the tank and java moss on several rocks > and the > > > > driftwood pieces and duckweed floating on top, I'm wondering if the > > > > hair algae is using up the nutrients that the duckweed normally does > > > > and that's why it's starting to die off? > > > > > > > > I got a lily for my 125 gallon tank a few weeks ago and it's doing > > > > great, it's a dwarf lily so it wont invade the tank ;). It > already has > > > > a leaf floating on top and is working on 2 more (they are just > shoots > > > > with a new leaf on the tip right now). Do all lily's bloom or only > > > > some varieties? I'm not sure what kind specifically it is as my > LFS is > > > > awful about naming the plants and this last time they had pond > plants > > > > mixed in with their normal aquatic plants and that's how I got the > > > > lily. I've read that lily's are very good nutrient eaters, is this > > > > correct? Either way it LOVES my walstad tank > > > > ;) LOL. I'm thinking that the 125 gallon tank has finally evened out > > > > and the black beard algae is no longer taking over everything so the > > > > plants must be starting to keep up with the nutrients I would assume > > > > ;). I've been slowly adding plants to the tank over the last few > > > > months though, I think I've added at least 7 in the last 3 > months and > > > > all of them are doing good. > > > > Unfortunately my awful LFS sold me a non-aquatic plant *sigh*, I > > > > looked it up on plantgeek and it turns out it's called a pineapple > > > > plant and it slowly melts until it dies off, I would assume it's > > > > another plant that goes on the edge of a pond where the water is not > > > > going to submerge the plant. > > > > Unfortunately I can't research plants before I go their as they > get in > > > > a shipment and all the plants are gone in the first 2 days, so you > > > > have to buy and run so to speak ;) LOL. The worker there will hold > > > > plants for me though, if she knows I'm looking for certain ones, > so I > > > > try to tell her what kinds I'm looking for before they get their > next > > > > plant shipment in. She held onto my dwarf baby tears for me and > > > > wouldn't let anyone buy them, LOL. > > > > It's good to have friends at the LFS ;) > > > > > > > > Amber > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 40876	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 6/14/2009
Subject: Re: One algae after the next...

Okay I just wanted to make sure I shouldn't be worried or something, the only change I've done is the flourish excel being added. The plants are already putting off new leaves, so they're definitely happier with the flourish excel in the tank. Amber Steve Szabo wrote: > > > Amber, > > Your corys are just surfacing for a breath of fresh air, as they and > their ancestors have been doing for thousands of years. The change may > be more the nitrate level or a lessening of some other dissolved organic > now that your plants are growing and the algae is disappearing. > > \\Steve// > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] > On Behalf Of Amber Berglund > Sent: Sunday, June 14, 2009 2:08 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] One algae after the next... > > Okay after using the flourish excel for several days now I can already > see an improvement in the growth of the plants and a lot less hair algae > > is left in the tank, so the flourish is doing something right ;) > I still notice that my cory's no longer swim up at the top levels of the > > fish tank, when they surface is it possible that they are surfacing for > some form of carbon rather than oxygen? The flourish puts carbon in the > water and that's the only change I've done in the tank (besides > cleanings), they're still active little guys but they don't swim on the > top level of the tank at all anymore, they do surface for "air" now and > then, but they spend all their time on the gravel and ornaments now, > searching for food. If they weren't very active at all I'd worry, but > they're still very active little guys, they just are different in their > activities. > > Amber > > Amber Berglund wrote: > > > > > > Thanks for the tip, I will keep that in mind if the flourish excel > > doesn't do anything for the 55 gallon, I think I'm going to try it out > > on the ornaments from the 125 gallon though, I'm tired of all the BB > > algae in the tank... although it's probably nice and soft to the fish > ;) > > > > Amber > > > > Donna Ransome wrote: > > > > > > > > > I keep a bucket of hydrogen peroxide solution near tank when doing > PWC. > > > Rocks come out and go in bucket during PWC. Hydrogen peroxide (tiny > > > amount) > > > is drizzled on my in tank background. Replace and refill as usual. > > This is > > > done weekly until under control and then as required. The stuff > starts > > > shedding the next day. > > > > > > _____ > > > > > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On > > > Behalf Of Amber Berglund > > > Sent: Wednesday, June 10, 2009 11:08 AM > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] One algae after the next... > > > > > > I tried that trick on the black beard algae and I gave up after a > week > > > or so as it wasn't doing anything for it. I suppose I could take all > the > > > ornaments out that have the BB algae growing on it and dunk it in > > > hydrogen peroxide and see if it kills it then. I have a lot of it > > > growing on plants too, but I did haircuts last night so hopefully I > will > > > see new growth soon. > > > > > > Amber > > > > > > Donna Ransome wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > Try hydrogen peroxide, it worked for me. My hair algae does not > grow > > > > on the > > > > glass though, when I had that bright green stuff on the glass I > > > > thought that > > > > was beard algae. Anyway I have brush and hair and hydrogen > peroxide > > > > gets it > > > > off surfaces (but not plants). For that I had success with > Vallisneria > > > > until my snails killed it. > > > > > > > > I've gotten the algae under control on the various surfaces, and I > > > just > > > > replanted the Vallisneria to outcompete it so it will leave my > slower > > > > growing plants alone. > > > > > > > > My bristlenose plecos and zebra nerite snails also seem to do a > pretty > > > > good > > > > job on the glass now. I just added the nerites a week or so ago. > > > > > > > > _____ > > > > > > > > From: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > yahoogroups.com > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > [mailto:AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > yahoogroups.com > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On > > > > Behalf Of Lenny V. aka GoldLenny > > > > Sent: Wednesday, June 10, 2009 2:00 AM > > > > To: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > yahoogroups.com > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] One algae after the next... > > > > > > > > Yes, THE FAQ's on the Seachem site actually addresses > using/overdosing > > > > Excel > > > > to combat algae and many fish keepers have reported success with > it. > > > BUT.. > > > > if you have a phosphate problem that can be solved, that would be > the > > > > better > > > > option as constant dosing of Excel on multiple tanks can get > > expensive. > > > > > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny. > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>> > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>>>> > > > blogspot.com > > > > <http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>> > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>>>> > > blogspot.com>> > > > blogspot.com > > > > (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the > > > right > > > > side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, > > > Month) > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > > From: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > yahoogroups.com > > > > [mailto:AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > yahoogroups.com] > > > > On > > > > Behalf Of Amber Berglund > > > > Sent: Wednesday, June 10, 2009 12:18 AM > > > > To: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > yahoogroups.com > > > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] One algae after the next... > > > > > > > > The loaches are in the tank with black beard algae, and the 55 > gallon > > > > doesn't have much surface tension it has a rena filstar xp 4 on > > it. The > > > > duckweed is still alive it's just getting attached to the hair > algae > > > > and the > > > > parts that get attached die off. It's a battle of the plants and > algae > > > > in my > > > > tanks ;) The 55 gallon only grows "regular" green algae and the > black > > > > beard > > > > algae, I have read on a few sites that flourish excel is used to > help > > > > combat > > > > algae issues as it will help the plants grow better and it also > has an > > > > ingredient in it that harms the algae (I forget what it's called > off > > > > the top > > > > of my head). I was giving it a shot in the 55 gallon to see if it > > helps > > > > against the hair algae, if it helps I may try it on the 125 gallon > but > > > > that's a lot of flourish to be dosing with before trying it in a > > smaller > > > > quantity ;) > > > > > > > > I will look at getting a phosphate test kit to see what my > > > phosphates are > > > > at. > > > > > > > > Amber > > > > > > > > Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I think I told you before that duckweed doesn't like a lot of > > surface > > > > > agitation and will not reproduce well in those tanks. It grows > THICK > > > > > in my Cherry shrimp tank and I regularly put some into my > goldfish > > > > > tank for them to munch on but the duckweed will not proliferate > in > > > > > that tank due to the surface agitation and it being a snack to > the > > > > goldfish. > > > > > > > > > > See my other reply in the Golden Nesaea thread, about your algae > > > issues. > > > > > > > > > > I thought the Hillstream Loaches were supposed to be good algae > > > > > eaters? Or is this not in their tank? > > > > > > > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > > > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny. > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>> > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>>>> > > > blogspot.com > > > > <http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>> > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>>>> > > blogspot.com>> > > > blogspot.com > > > > > > > > > <http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny. > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>> > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>>>> > > > blogspot.com > > > > <http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>> > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>>>> > > blogspot.com>> > > > blogspot.com> (Links to > > > > any articles referenced in > > > > > above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under > > Labels > > > > > and also under Archives by Year, Month) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > > > From: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > yahoogroups.com > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > [mailto:AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > yahoogroups.com > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On Behalf Of Amber > Berglund > > > > > Sent: Tuesday, June 09, 2009 4:08 PM > > > > > To: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > yahoogroups.com > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > Subject: [AquaticLife] One algae after the next... > > > > > > > > > > Okay so all the fish are healthy in the 55 gallon and I haven't > > added > > > > > any new plants for a few weeks at least, maybe more. I glued > some of > > > > > the java moss to rocks though instead of waiting for it to fully > > > > > attach to my drift wood pieces. My duck weed is starting to die > off > > > > > and the hair algae is going crazy. I'm just thankful that I can > see > > > > > the fish though > > > > > ;) It's not suspended in the water so I can deal with it, LOL. > I'm > > > > > wondering how long it is going to take for the tank to even > > itself out > > > > > and the algae to start dieing off. I've had this hair algae for > > > > > several weeks now, it's kind of pretty to watch wave in the > water > > > > > flow, but it's invading my plants > > > > > ;) . Should I try adding more plants or wait it out some more? > There > > > > > are 8 potted plants in the tank and java moss on several rocks > > and the > > > > > driftwood pieces and duckweed floating on top, I'm wondering if > the > > > > > hair algae is using up the nutrients that the duckweed normally > does > > > > > and that's why it's starting to die off? > > > > > > > > > > I got a lily for my 125 gallon tank a few weeks ago and it's > doing > > > > > great, it's a dwarf lily so it wont invade the tank ;). It > > already has > > > > > a leaf floating on top and is working on 2 more (they are just > > shoots > > > > > with a new leaf on the tip right now). Do all lily's bloom or > only > > > > > some varieties? I'm not sure what kind specifically it is as my > > LFS is > > > > > awful about naming the plants and this last time they had pond > > plants > > > > > mixed in with their normal aquatic plants and that's how I got > the > > > > > lily. I've read that lily's are very good nutrient eaters, is > this > > > > > correct? Either way it LOVES my walstad tank > > > > > ;) LOL. I'm thinking that the 125 gallon tank has finally evened > out > > > > > and the black beard algae is no longer taking over everything so > the > > > > > plants must be starting to keep up with the nutrients I would > assume > > > > > ;). I've been slowly adding plants to the tank over the last few > > > > > months though, I think I've added at least 7 in the last 3 > > months and > > > > > all of them are doing good. > > > > > Unfortunately my awful LFS sold me a non-aquatic plant *sigh*, I > > > > > looked it up on plantgeek and it turns out it's called a > pineapple > > > > > plant and it slowly melts until it dies off, I would assume it's > > > > > another plant that goes on the edge of a pond where the water is > not > > > > > going to submerge the plant. > > > > > Unfortunately I can't research plants before I go their as they > > get in > > > > > a shipment and all the plants are gone in the first 2 days, so > you > > > > > have to buy and run so to speak ;) LOL. The worker there will > hold > > > > > plants for me though, if she knows I'm looking for certain ones, > > > so I > > > > > try to tell her what kinds I'm looking for before they get their > > > next > > > > > plant shipment in. She held onto my dwarf baby tears for me and > > > > > wouldn't let anyone buy them, LOL. > > > > > It's good to have friends at the LFS ;) > > > > > > > > > > Amber > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > > > > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > > > > > > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 40877	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 6/14/2009
Subject: Re: about aquarium stands

1/4" isn't very much support, especially since a 1/4" thick piece of plywood is really only 3/16" thick. You should use at least 1/2", maybe more. Is it a metal stand where only the bottom frame of the tank sits on the top frame of the stand? In either case, I would go with at least 1/2" all the way across the top of the metal stand and then put the tank in the middle. Putting the tank at one end might become an issue. If you do try it, try the tank in the middle and then on one end and see if the stand becomes any less sturdy/rigid. You're talking close to 300 pounds of tank/water. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of toddswoman496861@... Sent: Sunday, June 14, 2009 12:43 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] about aquarium stands I just got a used one today for my 30 gallon tank. However, it is too long for my tank. I was wondering if I put a 1/4 inch piece of plywood under it if that would be strong enough to hold it? I figure the extra length I can use as a shelf to put my fish food etc on Kate Dale

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 40878	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 6/14/2009
Subject: Re: One algae after the next...

No, I don't think your Corys were surfacing for any carbon (CO2) from the air. Maybe they were swimming up to the top to be able to see out the tank? (with all that algae on the glass.. lol) I'm glad the Excel might be helping with your algae. Did you use to feed floating foods and maybe they were used to going up to the surface for food and now they've realized it's not up there any longer so they look around in the gravel more? Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Amber Berglund Sent: Sunday, June 14, 2009 1:08 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] One algae after the next... Okay after using the flourish excel for several days now I can already see an improvement in the growth of the plants and a lot less hair algae is left in the tank, so the flourish is doing something right ;) I still notice that my cory's no longer swim up at the top levels of the fish tank, when they surface is it possible that they are surfacing for some form of carbon rather than oxygen? The flourish puts carbon in the water and that's the only change I've done in the tank (besides cleanings), they're still active little guys but they don't swim on the top level of the tank at all anymore, they do surface for "air" now and then, but they spend all their time on the gravel and ornaments now, searching for food. If they weren't very active at all I'd worry, but they're still very active little guys, they just are different in their activities. Amber Amber Berglund wrote: > > > Thanks for the tip, I will keep that in mind if the flourish excel > doesn't do anything for the 55 gallon, I think I'm going to try it out > on the ornaments from the 125 gallon though, I'm tired of all the BB > algae in the tank... although it's probably nice and soft to the fish > ;) > > Amber > > Donna Ransome wrote: > > > > > > I keep a bucket of hydrogen peroxide solution near tank when doing PWC. > > Rocks come out and go in bucket during PWC. Hydrogen peroxide (tiny > > amount) > > is drizzled on my in tank background. Replace and refill as usual. > This is > > done weekly until under control and then as required. The stuff > > starts shedding the next day. > > > > _____ > > > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On Behalf Of Amber Berglund > > Sent: Wednesday, June 10, 2009 11:08 AM > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] One algae after the next... > > > > I tried that trick on the black beard algae and I gave up after a > > week or so as it wasn't doing anything for it. I suppose I could > > take all the ornaments out that have the BB algae growing on it and > > dunk it in hydrogen peroxide and see if it kills it then. I have a > > lot of it growing on plants too, but I did haircuts last night so > > hopefully I will see new growth soon. > > > > Amber > > > > Donna Ransome wrote: > > > > > > > > > Try hydrogen peroxide, it worked for me. My hair algae does not > > > grow on the glass though, when I had that bright green stuff on > > > the glass I thought that was beard algae. Anyway I have brush and > > > hair and hydrogen peroxide gets it off surfaces (but not plants). > > > For that I had success with Vallisneria until my snails killed it. > > > > > > I've gotten the algae under control on the various surfaces, and I > just > > > replanted the Vallisneria to outcompete it so it will leave my > > > slower growing plants alone. > > > > > > My bristlenose plecos and zebra nerite snails also seem to do a > > > pretty good job on the glass now. I just added the nerites a week > > > or so ago. > > > > > > _____ > > > > > > From: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > yahoogroups.com > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > [mailto:AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > yahoogroups.com > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On Behalf Of Lenny V. aka > > > GoldLenny > > > Sent: Wednesday, June 10, 2009 2:00 AM > > > To: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > yahoogroups.com > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] One algae after the next... > > > > > > Yes, THE FAQ's on the Seachem site actually addresses > > > using/overdosing Excel to combat algae and many fish keepers have > > > reported success with it. > > BUT.. > > > if you have a phosphate problem that can be solved, that would be > > > the better option as constant dosing of Excel on multiple tanks > > > can get > expensive. > > > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny. > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>>> > > blogspot.com > > > <http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>>> > blogspot.com>> > > blogspot.com > > > (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the > right > > > side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, > > Month) > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > From: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > yahoogroups.com > > > [mailto:AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > yahoogroups.com] > > > On > > > Behalf Of Amber Berglund > > > Sent: Wednesday, June 10, 2009 12:18 AM > > > To: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > yahoogroups.com > > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] One algae after the next... > > > > > > The loaches are in the tank with black beard algae, and the 55 > > > gallon doesn't have much surface tension it has a rena filstar xp > > > 4 on > it. The > > > duckweed is still alive it's just getting attached to the hair > > > algae and the parts that get attached die off. It's a battle of > > > the plants and algae in my tanks ;) The 55 gallon only grows > > > "regular" green algae and the black beard algae, I have read on a > > > few sites that flourish excel is used to help combat algae issues > > > as it will help the plants grow better and it also has an > > > ingredient in it that harms the algae (I forget what it's called > > > off the top of my head). I was giving it a shot in the 55 gallon > > > to see if it > helps > > > against the hair algae, if it helps I may try it on the 125 gallon > > > but that's a lot of flourish to be dosing with before trying it in > > > a > smaller > > > quantity ;) > > > > > > I will look at getting a phosphate test kit to see what my > > phosphates are > > > at. > > > > > > Amber > > > > > > Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > I think I told you before that duckweed doesn't like a lot of > surface > > > > agitation and will not reproduce well in those tanks. It grows > > > > THICK in my Cherry shrimp tank and I regularly put some into my > > > > goldfish tank for them to munch on but the duckweed will not > > > > proliferate in that tank due to the surface agitation and it > > > > being a snack to the > > > goldfish. > > > > > > > > See my other reply in the Golden Nesaea thread, about your algae > > issues. > > > > > > > > I thought the Hillstream Loaches were supposed to be good algae > > > > eaters? Or is this not in their tank? > > > > > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny. > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>>> > > blogspot.com > > > <http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>>> > blogspot.com>> > > blogspot.com > > > > > > > <http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny. > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>>> > > blogspot.com > > > <http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>>> > blogspot.com>> > > blogspot.com> (Links to > > > any articles referenced in > > > > above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under > Labels > > > > and also under Archives by Year, Month) > > > > > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > > From: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > yahoogroups.com > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > [mailto:AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > yahoogroups.com > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On Behalf Of Amber > > > > Berglund > > > > Sent: Tuesday, June 09, 2009 4:08 PM > > > > To: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > yahoogroups.com > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > Subject: [AquaticLife] One algae after the next... > > > > > > > > Okay so all the fish are healthy in the 55 gallon and I haven't > added > > > > any new plants for a few weeks at least, maybe more. I glued > > > > some of the java moss to rocks though instead of waiting for it > > > > to fully attach to my drift wood pieces. My duck weed is > > > > starting to die off and the hair algae is going crazy. I'm just > > > > thankful that I can see the fish though > > > > ;) It's not suspended in the water so I can deal with it, LOL. > > > > I'm wondering how long it is going to take for the tank to even > itself out > > > > and the algae to start dieing off. I've had this hair algae for > > > > several weeks now, it's kind of pretty to watch wave in the > > > > water flow, but it's invading my plants > > > > ;) . Should I try adding more plants or wait it out some more? > > > > There are 8 potted plants in the tank and java moss on several > > > > rocks > and the > > > > driftwood pieces and duckweed floating on top, I'm wondering if > > > > the hair algae is using up the nutrients that the duckweed > > > > normally does and that's why it's starting to die off? > > > > > > > > I got a lily for my 125 gallon tank a few weeks ago and it's > > > > doing great, it's a dwarf lily so it wont invade the tank ;). It > already has > > > > a leaf floating on top and is working on 2 more (they are just > shoots > > > > with a new leaf on the tip right now). Do all lily's bloom or > > > > only some varieties? I'm not sure what kind specifically it is > > > > as my > LFS is > > > > awful about naming the plants and this last time they had pond > plants > > > > mixed in with their normal aquatic plants and that's how I got > > > > the lily. I've read that lily's are very good nutrient eaters, > > > > is this correct? Either way it LOVES my walstad tank > > > > ;) LOL. I'm thinking that the 125 gallon tank has finally evened > > > > out and the black beard algae is no longer taking over > > > > everything so the plants must be starting to keep up with the > > > > nutrients I would assume ;). I've been slowly adding plants to > > > > the tank over the last few months though, I think I've added at > > > > least 7 in the last 3 > months and > > > > all of them are doing good. > > > > Unfortunately my awful LFS sold me a non-aquatic plant *sigh*, I > > > > looked it up on plantgeek and it turns out it's called a > > > > pineapple plant and it slowly melts until it dies off, I would > > > > assume it's another plant that goes on the edge of a pond where > > > > the water is not going to submerge the plant. > > > > Unfortunately I can't research plants before I go their as they > get in > > > > a shipment and all the plants are gone in the first 2 days, so > > > > you have to buy and run so to speak ;) LOL. The worker there > > > > will hold plants for me though, if she knows I'm looking for > > > > certain ones, > so I > > > > try to tell her what kinds I'm looking for before they get their > next > > > > plant shipment in. She held onto my dwarf baby tears for me and > > > > wouldn't let anyone buy them, LOL. > > > > It's good to have friends at the LFS ;) > > > > > > > > Amber

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 40879	From: toddswoman496861@aim.com	Date: 6/14/2009
Subject: Re: about aquarium stands

have decided on 1/2 inch.   It is a metal frame where the tank would sit on a lip but  feel it would need wood or something solid under it to support the bottom Kate Dale -----Original Message----- From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@...> To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Sun, Jun 14, 2009 6:26 pm Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] about aquarium stands 1/4" isn't very much support, especially since a 1/4" thick piece of plywood is really only 3/16" thick. You should use at least 1/2", maybe more. Is it a metal stand where only the bottom frame of the tank sits on the top frame of the stand? In either case, I would go with at least 1/2" all the way across the top of the metal stand and then put the tank in the middle. Putting the tank at one end might become an issue. If you do try it, try the tank in the middle and then on one end and see if the stand becomes any less sturdy/rigid. You're talking close to 300 pounds of tank/water. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of toddswoman496861@... Sent: Sunday, June 14, 2009 12:43 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] about aquarium stands I just got a used one today for my 30 gallon tank. However, it is too long for my tank. I was wondering if I put a 1/4 inch piece of plywood under it if that would be strong enough to hold it? I figure the extra length I can use as a shelf to put my fish food etc on Kate Dale ------------------------------------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the home page. Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com to receive the digest, which includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com for the No E-Mail option where you will still be able to read messages on the group and post replies. Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com to receive individual e-mails.Yahoo!20 Groups Links [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 40880	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 6/14/2009
Subject: Re: about aquarium stands

Amber, What you might be seeing is if you have the stand too close to the wall, there are nail strips along the edge of a room that the carpeting is held down with (to keep it from pulling away from the wall) and if you put the back edge of any furniture on that and the front edge is on the carpeting, then the furniture will not only lean forward (away from the wall) but it will not be very sturdy either since there is foam under the carpeting. If I was going to put a metal stand (or any stand without a full base) on carpeting, I would either put a full piece of wood under it or at least blocks of wood under each leg and make sure the back legs are NOT on that nail strip. If you do have to have it all the way where it's sitting on the nail strip in the back, then you would definitely need an equally thick piece of wood or other material in the front to shim the stand back so it's level and not leaning forward (away from the wall). The best thing is a full base like I have on my DIY stand so that the weight of the tank is equally distributed across the bottom of the stand and not just on the four legs (does the stand for the 125G have six legs or still only four like on smaller metal (angle iron) stands? It's good that you put the metal legs on 2x4's (although oak or other hard wood 1x4's would have probably worked too, not pine which might be too soft for a 125G tank). When you finally move the tank, there will still be indentions in the carpet where the 2x4's were at but if you steam clean the carpet, it will fluff back up. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Amber Berglund Sent: Sunday, June 14, 2009 1:16 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] about aquarium stands I have my 55 gallon upstairs and occasionally I worry that my floor won't hold the weight but I figure at the same time it's only a 55 gallon too, if it holds the weight of a bed and other furniture the floor should be built well enough to hold a 600lb fish tank ;) I think I would like to put something under the tank though, the carpet is uneven and it scares me when I touch the tank and it moves a little ;) Needless to say, I don't touch the tank as much as possible, at least I don't push on it, hehe. I definitely agree that a bunch of water in your neighbors apartment would not be looked at in a nice way ;) Good thing that below me is still my condo ;) Amber Steve Szabo wrote: > > > When living on the second floor of an old New England farmhouse, I > placed hardwood flooring under my stands, running perpendicular to the > hardwood flooring already in place. This was meant to also help in > distributing the weight of the tanks, hoping the floor would not give > way, giving the tanks a grand entrance for those living under me. > > \\Steve// > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On Behalf Of Amber Berglund > Sent: Sunday, June 14, 2009 1:47 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] about aquarium stands > > why do you need a piece of plywood under it? Is it a metal stand that > will tear up carpet or anything? Most wood stands don't need more wood > under them but I guess I need to see the stand to fully understand ;) > > Amber > > toddswoman496861@... <mailto:toddswoman496861%40aim.com> wrote: > > > > > > > > I just got a used one today for my 30 gallon tank. However, it is > > too long for my tank. I was wondering if I put a 1/4 inch piece of > > plywood under it if that would be strong enough to hold it? I figure > > the extra length I can use as a shelf to put my fish food etc on > > > > Kate Dale > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > > > ------------------------------------ > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. > ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , > .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT > that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the > original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: > old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. > > If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of unsubscribing, > you can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My > Membership" on the home page. > > Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:aquaticlife-digest%40yahoogroups.com> to receive the digest, > which includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email > > Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:aquaticlife-nomail%40yahoogroups.com> for the No E-Mail option > where you will still be able to read messages on the group and post > replies. > > Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:aquaticlife-normal%40yahoogroups.com> to receive individual > e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links > > ------------------------------------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the home page. Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com to receive the digest, which includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com for the No E-Mail option where you will still be able to read messages on the group and post replies. Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com to receive individual e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 40881	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 6/14/2009
Subject: Re: about aquarium stands

It's not so much the bottom as it is that fourth side (or the two ends if you put the tank in the middle). Most tanks, that have a bottom frame, do not really need the bottom of the tank (glass) supported except on the outside edges where the glass itself is supported by the frame and then the frame has to be supported. Sometimes, on bigger tank, there is a cross-bar in the middle of the tank's bottom (and top) to provide further support, mainly to keep the tank from bowing out on the long ends, but if this bottom brace is horizontally level with the outside framing, then it wouldn't be a bad idea to have a cross bar brace on the stand. This is how I built my stand for my 65G tank. The stand supports all parts of the black framing but is open where there is not black framing. Since it's an acrylic tank, I can actually push the bottom from underneath and it's a little bouncy but that's how acrylic is on the sides as well. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of toddswoman496861@... Sent: Sunday, June 14, 2009 5:34 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] about aquarium stands have decided on 1/2 inch.   It is a metal frame where the tank would sit on a lip but  feel it would need wood or something solid under it to support the bottom Kate Dale -----Original Message----- From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@...> To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Sun, Jun 14, 2009 6:26 pm Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] about aquarium stands 1/4" isn't very much support, especially since a 1/4" thick piece of plywood is really only 3/16" thick. You should use at least 1/2", maybe more. Is it a metal stand where only the bottom frame of the tank sits on the top frame of the stand? In either case, I would go with at least 1/2" all the way across the top of the metal stand and then put the tank in the middle. Putting the tank at one end might become an issue. If you do try it, try the tank in the middle and then on one end and see if the stand becomes any less sturdy/rigid. You're talking close to 300 pounds of tank/water. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of toddswoman496861@... Sent: Sunday, June 14, 2009 12:43 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] about aquarium stands I just got a used one today for my 30 gallon tank. However, it is too long for my tank. I was wondering if I put a 1/4 inch piece of plywood under it if that would be strong enough to hold it? I figure the extra length I can use as a shelf to put my fish food etc on Kate Dale

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 40882	From: toddswoman496861@aim.com	Date: 6/14/2009
Subject: Re: about aquarium stands

oh that I did not know. mainly its because the stand is longer than the tank is why and I want to make the stand work as money is tight for me right now and cant afford to buy brand new. or used for that matter Kate Dale -----Original Message----- From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@...> To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Sun, Jun 14, 2009 6:59 pm Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] about aquarium stands It's not so much the bottom as it is that fourth side (or the two ends if you put the tank in the middle). Most tanks, that have a bottom frame, do not really need the bottom of the tank (glass) supported except on the outside edges where the glass itself is supported by the frame and then the frame has to be supported. Sometimes, on bigger tank, there is a cross-bar in the middle of the tank's bottom (and top) to provide further support, mainly to keep the tank from bowing out on the long ends, but if this bottom brace is horizontally level with the outside framing, then it wouldn't be a bad idea to have a cross bar brace on the stand. This is how I built my stand for my 65G tank. The stand supports all parts of the black framing but is open where there is not black framing. Since it's an acrylic tank, I can actually push the bottom from underneath and it's a little bouncy but that's how acrylic is on the sides as well. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any ar ticles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of toddswoman496861@... Sent: Sunday, June 14, 2009 5:34 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] about aquarium stands have decided on 1/2 inch.   It is a metal frame where the tank would sit on a lip but  feel it would need wood or something solid under it to support the bottom Kate Dale -----Original Message----- From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@...> To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Sun, Jun 14, 2009 6:26 pm Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] about aquarium stands 1/4" isn't very much support, especially since a 1/4" thick piece of plywood is really only 3/16" thick. You should use at least 1/2", maybe more. Is it a metal stand where only the bottom frame of the tank sits on the top frame of the stand? In either case, I would go with at least 1/2" all the way across the top of the metal stand and then put the tank in the middle. Putting the tank at one end might become an issue. If you do try it, try the tank in the middle and then on one end and see if the stand becomes any less sturdy/rigid. You're talking close to 300 pounds of tank/water. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are=2 0listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of toddswoman496861@... Sent: Sunday, June 14, 2009 12:43 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] about aquarium stands I just got a used one today for my 30 gallon tank. However, it is too long for my tank. I was wondering if I put a 1/4 inch piece of plywood under it if that would be strong enough to hold it? I figure the extra length I can use as a shelf to put my fish food etc on Kate Dale ------------------------------------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the20home page. Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com to receive the digest, which includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com for the No E-Mail option where you will still be able to read messages on the group and post replies. Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com to receive individual e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 40883	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 6/14/2009
Subject: Re: One algae after the next...

I've always fed them some sinking pellets when I feed the rest of the tank, so I don't think that was the issue. They used to swim laps around the tank in the top 1-2 inches of water, they don't do it at all anymore. Amber Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > > > No, I don't think your Corys were surfacing for any carbon (CO2) from the > air. Maybe they were swimming up to the top to be able to see out the > tank? > (with all that algae on the glass.. lol) > > I'm glad the Excel might be helping with your algae. > > Did you use to feed floating foods and maybe they were used to going up to > the surface for food and now they've realized it's not up there any longer > so they look around in the gravel more? > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right > side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On > Behalf Of Amber Berglund > Sent: Sunday, June 14, 2009 1:08 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] One algae after the next... > > Okay after using the flourish excel for several days now I can already see > an improvement in the growth of the plants and a lot less hair algae > is left > in the tank, so the flourish is doing something right ;) I still > notice that > my cory's no longer swim up at the top levels of the fish tank, when they > surface is it possible that they are surfacing for some form of carbon > rather than oxygen? The flourish puts carbon in the water and that's the > only change I've done in the tank (besides cleanings), they're still > active > little guys but they don't swim on the top level of the tank at all > anymore, > they do surface for "air" now and then, but they spend all their time > on the > gravel and ornaments now, searching for food. If they weren't very > active at > all I'd worry, but they're still very active little guys, they just are > different in their activities. > > Amber > > Amber Berglund wrote: > > > > > > Thanks for the tip, I will keep that in mind if the flourish excel > > doesn't do anything for the 55 gallon, I think I'm going to try it out > > on the ornaments from the 125 gallon though, I'm tired of all the BB > > algae in the tank... although it's probably nice and soft to the fish > > ;) > > > > Amber > > > > Donna Ransome wrote: > > > > > > > > > I keep a bucket of hydrogen peroxide solution near tank when doing > PWC. > > > Rocks come out and go in bucket during PWC. Hydrogen peroxide (tiny > > > amount) > > > is drizzled on my in tank background. Replace and refill as usual. > > This is > > > done weekly until under control and then as required. The stuff > > > starts shedding the next day. > > > > > > _____ > > > > > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On Behalf Of Amber Berglund > > > Sent: Wednesday, June 10, 2009 11:08 AM > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] One algae after the next... > > > > > > I tried that trick on the black beard algae and I gave up after a > > > week or so as it wasn't doing anything for it. I suppose I could > > > take all the ornaments out that have the BB algae growing on it and > > > dunk it in hydrogen peroxide and see if it kills it then. I have a > > > lot of it growing on plants too, but I did haircuts last night so > > > hopefully I will see new growth soon. > > > > > > Amber > > > > > > Donna Ransome wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > Try hydrogen peroxide, it worked for me. My hair algae does not > > > > grow on the glass though, when I had that bright green stuff on > > > > the glass I thought that was beard algae. Anyway I have brush and > > > > hair and hydrogen peroxide gets it off surfaces (but not plants). > > > > For that I had success with Vallisneria until my snails killed it. > > > > > > > > I've gotten the algae under control on the various surfaces, and I > > just > > > > replanted the Vallisneria to outcompete it so it will leave my > > > > slower growing plants alone. > > > > > > > > My bristlenose plecos and zebra nerite snails also seem to do a > > > > pretty good job on the glass now. I just added the nerites a week > > > > or so ago. > > > > > > > > _____ > > > > > > > > From: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > yahoogroups.com > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > [mailto:AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > yahoogroups.com > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On Behalf Of Lenny V. aka > > > > GoldLenny > > > > Sent: Wednesday, June 10, 2009 2:00 AM > > > > To: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > yahoogroups.com > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] One algae after the next... > > > > > > > > Yes, THE FAQ's on the Seachem site actually addresses > > > > using/overdosing Excel to combat algae and many fish keepers have > > > > reported success with it. > > > BUT.. > > > > if you have a phosphate problem that can be solved, that would be > > > > the better option as constant dosing of Excel on multiple tanks > > > > can get > > expensive. > > > > > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny. > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>> > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>>>> > > > blogspot.com > > > > <http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>> > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>>>> > > blogspot.com>> > > > blogspot.com > > > > (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the > > right > > > > side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, > > > Month) > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > > From: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > yahoogroups.com > > > > [mailto:AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > yahoogroups.com] > > > > On > > > > Behalf Of Amber Berglund > > > > Sent: Wednesday, June 10, 2009 12:18 AM > > > > To: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > yahoogroups.com > > > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] One algae after the next... > > > > > > > > The loaches are in the tank with black beard algae, and the 55 > > > > gallon doesn't have much surface tension it has a rena filstar xp > > > > 4 on > > it. The > > > > duckweed is still alive it's just getting attached to the hair > > > > algae and the parts that get attached die off. It's a battle of > > > > the plants and algae in my tanks ;) The 55 gallon only grows > > > > "regular" green algae and the black beard algae, I have read on a > > > > few sites that flourish excel is used to help combat algae issues > > > > as it will help the plants grow better and it also has an > > > > ingredient in it that harms the algae (I forget what it's called > > > > off the top of my head). I was giving it a shot in the 55 gallon > > > > to see if it > > helps > > > > against the hair algae, if it helps I may try it on the 125 gallon > > > > but that's a lot of flourish to be dosing with before trying it in > > > > a > > smaller > > > > quantity ;) > > > > > > > > I will look at getting a phosphate test kit to see what my > > > phosphates are > > > > at. > > > > > > > > Amber > > > > > > > > Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I think I told you before that duckweed doesn't like a lot of > > surface > > > > > agitation and will not reproduce well in those tanks. It grows > > > > > THICK in my Cherry shrimp tank and I regularly put some into my > > > > > goldfish tank for them to munch on but the duckweed will not > > > > > proliferate in that tank due to the surface agitation and it > > > > > being a snack to the > > > > goldfish. > > > > > > > > > > See my other reply in the Golden Nesaea thread, about your algae > > > issues. > > > > > > > > > > I thought the Hillstream Loaches were supposed to be good algae > > > > > eaters? Or is this not in their tank? > > > > > > > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > > > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny. > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>> > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>>>> > > > blogspot.com > > > > <http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>> > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>>>> > > blogspot.com>> > > > blogspot.com > > > > > > > > > <http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny. > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>> > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>>>> > > > blogspot.com > > > > <http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>> > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>>>> > > blogspot.com>> > > > blogspot.com> (Links to > > > > any articles referenced in > > > > > above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under > > Labels > > > > > and also under Archives by Year, Month) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > > > From: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > yahoogroups.com > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > [mailto:AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > yahoogroups.com > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On Behalf Of Amber > > > > > Berglund > > > > > Sent: Tuesday, June 09, 2009 4:08 PM > > > > > To: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > yahoogroups.com > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > Subject: [AquaticLife] One algae after the next... > > > > > > > > > > Okay so all the fish are healthy in the 55 gallon and I haven't > > added > > > > > any new plants for a few weeks at least, maybe more. I glued > > > > > some of the java moss to rocks though instead of waiting for it > > > > > to fully attach to my drift wood pieces. My duck weed is > > > > > starting to die off and the hair algae is going crazy. I'm just > > > > > thankful that I can see the fish though > > > > > ;) It's not suspended in the water so I can deal with it, LOL. > > > > > I'm wondering how long it is going to take for the tank to even > > itself out > > > > > and the algae to start dieing off. I've had this hair algae for > > > > > several weeks now, it's kind of pretty to watch wave in the > > > > > water flow, but it's invading my plants > > > > > ;) . Should I try adding more plants or wait it out some more? > > > > > There are 8 potted plants in the tank and java moss on several > > > > > rocks > > and the > > > > > driftwood pieces and duckweed floating on top, I'm wondering if > > > > > the hair algae is using up the nutrients that the duckweed > > > > > normally does and that's why it's starting to die off? > > > > > > > > > > I got a lily for my 125 gallon tank a few weeks ago and it's > > > > > doing great, it's a dwarf lily so it wont invade the tank ;). It > > already has > > > > > a leaf floating on top and is working on 2 more (they are just > > shoots > > > > > with a new leaf on the tip right now). Do all lily's bloom or > > > > > only some varieties? I'm not sure what kind specifically it is > > > > > as my > > LFS is > > > > > awful about naming the plants and this last time they had pond > > plants > > > > > mixed in with their normal aquatic plants and that's how I got > > > > > the lily. I've read that lily's are very good nutrient eaters, > > > > > is this correct? Either way it LOVES my walstad tank > > > > > ;) LOL. I'm thinking that the 125 gallon tank has finally evened > > > > > out and the black beard algae is no longer taking over > > > > > everything so the plants must be starting to keep up with the > > > > > nutrients I would assume ;). I've been slowly adding plants to > > > > > the tank over the last few months though, I think I've added at > > > > > least 7 in the last 3 > > months and > > > > > all of them are doing good. > > > > > Unfortunately my awful LFS sold me a non-aquatic plant *sigh*, I > > > > > looked it up on plantgeek and it turns out it's called a > > > > > pineapple plant and it slowly melts until it dies off, I would > > > > > assume it's another plant that goes on the edge of a pond where > > > > > the water is not going to submerge the plant. > > > > > Unfortunately I can't research plants before I go their as they > > get in > > > > > a shipment and all the plants are gone in the first 2 days, so > > > > > you have to buy and run so to speak ;) LOL. The worker there > > > > > will hold plants for me though, if she knows I'm looking for > > > > > certain ones, > > so I > > > > > try to tell her what kinds I'm looking for before they get their > > next > > > > > plant shipment in. She held onto my dwarf baby tears for me and > > > > > wouldn't let anyone buy them, LOL. > > > > > It's good to have friends at the LFS ;) > > > > > > > > > > Amber > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 40884	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 6/14/2009
Subject: Re: about aquarium stands

The tank that leans away from the wall is the 55 gallon and it has a solid wood base, which I'm glad for. I probably put it a little too close to the wall. The 125 gallon metal stand has 6 legs as well, and the front of the stand angles forward away from the tank, not sure why they did it that way. Amber Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > > > Amber, > > What you might be seeing is if you have the stand too close to the wall, > there are nail strips along the edge of a room that the carpeting is held > down with (to keep it from pulling away from the wall) and if you put the > back edge of any furniture on that and the front edge is on the carpeting, > then the furniture will not only lean forward (away from the wall) but it > will not be very sturdy either since there is foam under the carpeting. If > I was going to put a metal stand (or any stand without a full base) on > carpeting, I would either put a full piece of wood under it or at least > blocks of wood under each leg and make sure the back legs are NOT on that > nail strip. If you do have to have it all the way where it's sitting > on the > nail strip in the back, then you would definitely need an equally thick > piece of wood or other material in the front to shim the stand back so > it's > level and not leaning forward (away from the wall). > > The best thing is a full base like I have on my DIY stand so that the > weight > of the tank is equally distributed across the bottom of the stand and not > just on the four legs (does the stand for the 125G have six legs or still > only four like on smaller metal (angle iron) stands? It's good that > you put > the metal legs on 2x4's (although oak or other hard wood 1x4's would have > probably worked too, not pine which might be too soft for a 125G tank). > When you finally move the tank, there will still be indentions in the > carpet > where the 2x4's were at but if you steam clean the carpet, it will fluff > back up. > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right > side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On > Behalf Of Amber Berglund > Sent: Sunday, June 14, 2009 1:16 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] about aquarium stands > > I have my 55 gallon upstairs and occasionally I worry that my floor won't > hold the weight but I figure at the same time it's only a 55 gallon > too, if > it holds the weight of a bed and other furniture the floor should be built > well enough to hold a 600lb fish tank ;) I think I would like to put > something under the tank though, the carpet is uneven and it scares me > when > I touch the tank and it moves a little ;) Needless to say, I don't > touch the > tank as much as possible, at least I don't push on it, hehe. > I definitely agree that a bunch of water in your neighbors apartment would > not be looked at in a nice way ;) Good thing that below me is still my > condo > ;) > > Amber > > Steve Szabo wrote: > > > > > > When living on the second floor of an old New England farmhouse, I > > placed hardwood flooring under my stands, running perpendicular to the > > hardwood flooring already in place. This was meant to also help in > > distributing the weight of the tanks, hoping the floor would not give > > way, giving the tanks a grand entrance for those living under me. > > > > \\Steve// > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On Behalf Of Amber Berglund > > Sent: Sunday, June 14, 2009 1:47 PM > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] about aquarium stands > > > > why do you need a piece of plywood under it? Is it a metal stand that > > will tear up carpet or anything? Most wood stands don't need more wood > > under them but I guess I need to see the stand to fully understand ;) > > > > Amber > > > > toddswoman496861@... <mailto:toddswoman496861%40aim.com> > <mailto:toddswoman496861%40aim.com> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > I just got a used one today for my 30 gallon tank. However, it is > > > too long for my tank. I was wondering if I put a 1/4 inch piece of > > > plywood under it if that would be strong enough to hold it? I figure > > > the extra length I can use as a shelf to put my fish food etc on > > > > > > Kate Dale > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > > > > > > > ------------------------------------ > > > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, > Thank You. > > ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , > > .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT > > that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the > > original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: > > old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , > .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. > > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. > > > > If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of unsubscribing, > > you can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My > > Membership" on the home page. > > > > Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:aquaticlife-digest%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:aquaticlife-digest%40yahoogroups.com> to receive the digest, > > which includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email > > > > Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:aquaticlife-nomail%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:aquaticlife-nomail%40yahoogroups.com> for the No E-Mail option > > where you will still be able to read messages on the group and post > > replies. > > > > Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:aquaticlife-normal%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:aquaticlife-normal%40yahoogroups.com> to receive individual > > e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > ------------------------------------ > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. > ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> > PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to > the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the > SUBJECT > LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- > <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. > > If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of unsubscribing, you > can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the > home page. > > Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:aquaticlife-digest%40yahoogroups.com> to receive the digest, which > includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email > > Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:aquaticlife-nomail%40yahoogroups.com> for the No E-Mail option > where > you will still be able to read messages on the group and post replies. > > Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:aquaticlife-normal%40yahoogroups.com> to receive individual > e-mails.Yahoo! 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Group: AquaticLife	Message: 40885	From: Raymond Wetzel	Date: 6/14/2009
Subject: Re: about aquarium stands

Kate, It has already been established that 1/4" plywood is not strong enough to support the 30 gallon tank rigidly enough. While the 1/2" plywood you've decided on may hold this tank evenly right now, you need toi consider several things about plywood -- and especially plywood that is under the stress of a constant weight, while considering the distinct possibility because of it's very use, that it quite well may be subjected to exposure to water at some point during the time you have this tank set up. This, despite the fact you you may do everything to prevent such an accidental spill. It doesn't take much water spilled over an edge of a tank, maybe during a PWC when you least expect it. This water acting on plywood, as it's absorbed into the grain, will enable the plywood to warp under the weight of 250 pounds if it's not thick enough. As long as you're going with plywood, and that's a good choice of support material if of sufficient thickness, I would go another 1/4" thick to 3/4" plywood, and if this sounds like overkill, please know it will be the safest way to go (why even bother with only 5/8"). The optimum choice for support would be to have a piece of angle iron welded in place (from front to back) to support the one end that has none right now, but that might be of more expense than you care to invest right now. I gather that you have a "standard" 30 gallon tank, that is 36" long. Since you mentioned the metal stand only as being too long, I am assuming it's a 12" wide stand (possibly for a 55 gallon) -- maybe 48" long -- rather than an 18" wide stand. For best support with the 3/4" plywood, I would cut the plywood the full length of the stand and center the tank on this. In this way, each end of the tank is only 6" away from the end of the stand as it sits on the plywood, instead of having the tank to one end of the stand with 12" of only plywood supporting the tank between the otherwise unsupported end, and the far end of the stand. Remember, the longer this weight sits on the plywood, even if it doesn't get wet, it will tend to take a set (a warp) under the continued weight after a while unless it's thick enough and unless it's well supported by the stand -- not having the weight very far from any supporting metal stand member. As these metal tank stands are almost always painted black, give the plywood several coats of black also. Not only will it be far less noticeable, but it will help seal the plywood from absorbing moisture. One thing you apparently haven't realized though, is that regardless if an all glass tank is sitting on a metal-lipped stand or on a flat wood top stand, NONE of the tank's glass bottom is supported by anything except it's plastic bottom frame. The tank's glass bottom does not rest on anything, as the plastic frame has a lip extending down at least 1/4" or so; the tank is supported by this -- which must in turn be supported evenly. As you're on a budget, and who isn't now-a-days, try Home Depot for the plywood. Not all of them, but many Home Depots do custom cutting for their customers (I'm not saying for you to get a custom cut piece). These Home Depots always have odd-sized off-cuts of various thicknesses of plywood. There are 3 Home Depots in a 5 mile radius of me. Two of them do custom cutting and usually have odd pieces for sale at bargain prices. I just picked up a piece of 3/4" x 23" x 48" plywood this past Thursday for $2. There were many more off-cuts still available, some very similar (one - 3/4" - that I measured to be 19" x 48") priced all the same if the size were similar. Check that out at your Home Depot as your first source, and look for "Marine" plywood if you can find it, it holds up to moisture even better. Ray --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, toddswoman496861@... wrote: > > > I just got a used one today for my 30 gallon tank. However, it is too long for my tank. I was wondering if I put a 1/4 inch piece of plywood under it if that would be strong enough to hold it? I figure the extra length I can use as a shelf to put my fish food etc on > > > > > > > Kate Dale > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 40886	From: toddswoman496861@aim.com	Date: 6/14/2009
Subject: Re: about aquarium stands

was planning on using thompsons water sealant on the plywood. Kate Dale -----Original Message----- From: Raymond Wetzel <sevenspringss@...> To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Sun, Jun 14, 2009 10:33 pm Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: about aquarium stands Kate, It has already been established that 1/4" plywood is not strong enough to support the 30 gallon tank rigidly enough. While the 1/2" plywood you've decided on may hold this tank evenly right now, you need toi consider several things about plywood -- and especially plywood that is under the stress of a constant weight, while considering the distinct possibility because of it's very use, that it quite well may be subjected to exposure to water at some point during the time you have this tank set up. This, despite the fact you you may do everything to prevent such an accidental spill. It doesn't take much water spilled over an edge of a tank, maybe during a PWC when you least expect it. This water acting on plywood, as it's absorbed into the grain, will enable the plywood to warp under the weight of 250 pounds if it's not thick enough. As long as you're going with plywood, and that's a good choice of support material if of sufficient thickness, I would go another 1/4" thick to 3/4" plywood, and if this sounds like overkill, please know it will be the safest way to go (why even bother with only 5/8"). The optimum choice for support would20be to have a piece of angle iron welded in place (from front to back) to support the one end that has none right now, but that might be of more expense than you care to invest right now. I gather that you have a "standard" 30 gallon tank, that is 36" long. Since you mentioned the metal stand only as being too long, I am assuming it's a 12" wide stand (possibly for a 55 gallon) -- maybe 48" long -- rather than an 18" wide stand. For best support with the 3/4" plywood, I would cut the plywood the full length of the stand and center the tank on this. In this way, each end of the tank is only 6" away from the end of the stand as it sits on the plywood, instead of having the tank to one end of the stand with 12" of only plywood supporting the tank between the otherwise unsupported end, and the far end of the stand. Remember, the longer this weight sits on the plywood, even if it doesn't get wet, it will tend to take a set (a warp) under the continued weight after a while unless it's thick enough and unless it's well supported by the stand -- not having the weight very far from any supporting metal stand member. As these metal tank stands are almost always painted black, give the plywood several coats of black also. Not only will it be far less noticeable, but it will help seal the plywood from absorbing moisture. One thing you apparently haven't realized though, is that regardless if an all glass tan k is sitting on a metal-lipped stand or on a flat wood top stand, NONE of the tank's glass bottom is supported by anything except it's plastic bottom frame. The tank's glass bottom does not rest on anything, as the plastic frame has a lip extending down at least 1/4" or so; the tank is supported by this -- which must in turn be supported evenly. As you're on a budget, and who isn't now-a-days, try Home Depot for the plywood. Not all of them, but many Home Depots do custom cutting for their customers (I'm not saying for you to get a custom cut piece). These Home Depots always have odd-sized off-cuts of various thicknesses of plywood. There are 3 Home Depots in a 5 mile radius of me. Two of them do custom cutting and usually have odd pieces for sale at bargain prices. I just picked up a piece of 3/4" x 23" x 48" plywood this past Thursday for $2. There were many more off-cuts still available, some very similar (one - 3/4" - that I measured to be 19" x 48") priced all the same if the size were similar. Check that out at your Home Depot as your first source, and look for "Marine" plywood if you can find it, it holds up to moisture even better. Ray --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, toddswoman496861@... wrote: > > > I just got a used one today for my 30 gallon tank. However, it is too long for my tank. I was wondering if I put a 1/4 inch piece of plywood under it if that would be strong enough to hold it? I figure the extra length I can use as a shelf to put my fish food etc on > > > > > > > Kate Dale > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > ------------------------------------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the home page. Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com to receive the digest, which includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com for the No E-Mail option where you will still be able to read messages on the group and post replies. Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com to receive individual e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 40887	From: toddswoman496861@aim.com	Date: 6/14/2009
Subject: Re: about aquarium stands

no not standard then. tank is just shy of 13" wide and 24" long.  the stand fits the tank width wise but not lenght wise got to it soon as the table it is on now is bowing down in the middle Kate Dale -----Original Message----- From: Raymond Wetzel <sevenspringss@...> To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Sun, Jun 14, 2009 10:33 pm Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: about aquarium stands Kate, It has already been established that 1/4" plywood is not strong enough to support the 30 gallon tank rigidly enough. While the 1/2" plywood you've decided on may hold this tank evenly right now, you need toi consider several things about plywood -- and especially plywood that is under the stress of a constant weight, while considering the distinct possibility because of it's very use, that it quite well may be subjected to exposure to water at some point during the time you have this tank set up. This, despite the fact you you may do everything to prevent such an accidental spill. It doesn't take much water spilled over an edge of a tank, maybe during a PWC when you least expect it. This water acting on plywood, as it's absorbed into the grain, will enable the plywood to warp under the weight of 250 pounds if it's not thick enough. As long as you're going with plywood, and that's a good choice of support material if of sufficient thickness, I would go another 1/4" thick to 3/4" plywood, and if this sounds like overkill, please know it will be the safest way to go (why even bother with only 5/8"). The optimum choice for support would be to have a piece of angle iron welded in place (from front to back) to support the one end that has none right now, but that might be of more expense than you care to invest right now. I gather that you have a "standard" 30 gallon tank, that is 36" long. Since you mentioned the metal stand only as being too long, I am assuming it's a 12" wide stand (possibly for a 55 gallon) -- maybe 48" long -- rather than an 18" wide stand. For best support with the 3/4" plywood, I would cut the plywood the full length of the stand and center the tank on this. In this way, each end of the tank is only 6" away from the end of the stand as it sits on the plywood, instead of having the tank to one end of the stand with 12" of only plywood supporting the tank between the otherwise unsupported end, and the far end of the stand. Remember, the longer this weight sits on the plywood, even if it doesn't get wet, it will tend to take a set (a warp) under the continued weight after a while unless it's thick enough and unless it's well supported by the stand -- not having the weight very far from any supporting metal stand member. As these metal tank stands are almost always painted black, give the plywood several coats of black also. Not only will it be far less noticeable, but it will help seal the plywood from absorbing moisture. One thing you apparently haven't realized though, is that regardless if an all glass tank is sitting on a metal-lipped stand or on a flat wood top stand, NONE of the tank's glass bottom is supported by anything except it's plastic bottom frame. The tank's glass bottom does not rest on anything, as the plastic frame has a lip extending down at least 1/4" or so; the tank is supported by this -- which must in turn be supported evenly. As you're on a budget, and who isn't now-a-days, try Home Depot for the plywood. Not all of them, but many Home Depots do custom cutting for their customers (I'm not saying for you to get a custom cut piece). These Home Depots always have odd-sized off-cuts of various thicknesses of plywood. There are 3 Home Depots in a 5 mile radius of me. Two of them do custom cutting and usually have odd pieces for sale at bargain prices. I just picked up a piece of 3/4" x 23" x 48" plywood this past Thursday for $2. There were many more off-cuts still available, some very similar (one - 3/4" - that I measured to be 19" x 48") priced all the same if the size were similar. Check that out at your Home Depot as your first source, and look for "Marine" plywood if you can find it, it holds up to moisture even better. Ray --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, toddswoman496861@... wrote: > > > I just got a used one today for my 30 gallon=2 0tank. However, it is too long for my tank. I was wondering if I put a 1/4 inch piece of plywood under it if that would be strong enough to hold it? I figure the extra length I can use as a shelf to put my fish food etc on > > > > > > > Kate Dale > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > ------------------------------------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the home page. Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com to receive the digest, which includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com for the No E-Mail option where you will still be able to read messages on the group and20post replies. Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com to receive individual e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 40888	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 6/14/2009
Subject: Re: about aquarium stands

On the stand for the 125G, they probably made the front legs come out to the front further as a way to ensure the tank would be less likely to ever fall forward. I believe you said it was a pretty deep tank, which also means it's pretty tall, making it more top heavy, so they made the stand to have a wider footprint to compensate for the top heaviness of the tank. If you take a couple of pics of the 55G that isn't as solid as you'd like, I might be able to give you some simple tips to make it more secure. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Amber Berglund Sent: Sunday, June 14, 2009 9:27 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] about aquarium stands The tank that leans away from the wall is the 55 gallon and it has a solid wood base, which I'm glad for. I probably put it a little too close to the wall. The 125 gallon metal stand has 6 legs as well, and the front of the stand angles forward away from the tank, not sure why they did it that way. Amber Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > > > Amber, > > What you might be seeing is if you have the stand too close to the > wall, there are nail strips along the edge of a room that the > carpeting is held down with (to keep it from pulling away from the > wall) and if you put the back edge of any furniture on that and the > front edge is on the carpeting, then the furniture will not only lean > forward (away from the wall) but it will not be very sturdy either > since there is foam under the carpeting. If I was going to put a metal > stand (or any stand without a full base) on carpeting, I would either > put a full piece of wood under it or at least blocks of wood under > each leg and make sure the back legs are NOT on that nail strip. If > you do have to have it all the way where it's sitting on the nail > strip in the back, then you would definitely need an equally thick > piece of wood or other material in the front to shim the stand back so > it's level and not leaning forward (away from the wall). > > The best thing is a full base like I have on my DIY stand so that the > weight of the tank is equally distributed across the bottom of the > stand and not just on the four legs (does the stand for the 125G have > six legs or still only four like on smaller metal (angle iron) stands? > It's good that you put the metal legs on 2x4's (although oak or other > hard wood 1x4's would have probably worked too, not pine which might > be too soft for a 125G tank). > When you finally move the tank, there will still be indentions in the > carpet where the 2x4's were at but if you steam clean the carpet, it > will fluff back up. > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> (Links to any articles referenced in > above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels > and also under Archives by Year, Month) > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On Behalf Of Amber Berglund > Sent: Sunday, June 14, 2009 1:16 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] about aquarium stands > > I have my 55 gallon upstairs and occasionally I worry that my floor > won't hold the weight but I figure at the same time it's only a 55 > gallon too, if it holds the weight of a bed and other furniture the > floor should be built well enough to hold a 600lb fish tank ;) I think > I would like to put something under the tank though, the carpet is > uneven and it scares me when I touch the tank and it moves a little ;) > Needless to say, I don't touch the tank as much as possible, at least > I don't push on it, hehe. > I definitely agree that a bunch of water in your neighbors apartment > would not be looked at in a nice way ;) Good thing that below me is > still my condo > ;) > > Amber > > Steve Szabo wrote: > > > > > > When living on the second floor of an old New England farmhouse, I > > placed hardwood flooring under my stands, running perpendicular to > > the hardwood flooring already in place. This was meant to also help > > in distributing the weight of the tanks, hoping the floor would not > > give way, giving the tanks a grand entrance for those living under me. > > > > \\Steve// > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On Behalf Of Amber Berglund > > Sent: Sunday, June 14, 2009 1:47 PM > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] about aquarium stands > > > > why do you need a piece of plywood under it? Is it a metal stand > > that will tear up carpet or anything? Most wood stands don't need > > more wood under them but I guess I need to see the stand to fully > > understand ;) > > > > Amber > > > > toddswoman496861@... <mailto:toddswoman496861%40aim.com> > <mailto:toddswoman496861%40aim.com> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > I just got a used one today for my 30 gallon tank. However, it is > > > too long for my tank. I was wondering if I put a 1/4 inch piece of > > > plywood under it if that would be strong enough to hold it? I > > > figure the extra length I can use as a shelf to put my fish food > > > etc on > > > > > > Kate Dale

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 40889	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 6/14/2009
Subject: Re: about aquarium stands

YES... do it ASAP as the bowing table could be putting stress on the tank that could cause it to burst without notice. I might even transfer the water, plants, decorations, fish and filter system to a plastic tub or something, immediately, just to make sure you do not get a rude awakening. Just leave a couple of inches of water to cover up the gravel with maybe 1/2" of water over the gravel to keep it "alive" and from stinking until you can move the tank. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of toddswoman496861@... Sent: Sunday, June 14, 2009 9:50 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: about aquarium stands no not standard then. tank is just shy of 13" wide and 24" long.  the stand fits the tank width wise but not lenght wise got to it soon as the table it is on now is bowing down in the middle Kate Dale -----Original Message----- From: Raymond Wetzel <sevenspringss@...> To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Sun, Jun 14, 2009 10:33 pm Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: about aquarium stands Kate, It has already been established that 1/4" plywood is not strong enough to support the 30 gallon tank rigidly enough. While the 1/2" plywood you've decided on may hold this tank evenly right now, you need toi consider several things about plywood -- and especially plywood that is under the stress of a constant weight, while considering the distinct possibility because of it's very use, that it quite well may be subjected to exposure to water at some point during the time you have this tank set up. This, despite the fact you you may do everything to prevent such an accidental spill. It doesn't take much water spilled over an edge of a tank, maybe during a PWC when you least expect it. This water acting on plywood, as it's absorbed into the grain, will enable the plywood to warp under the weight of 250 pounds if it's not thick enough. As long as you're going with plywood, and that's a good choice of support material if of sufficient thickness, I would go another 1/4" thick to 3/4" plywood, and if this sounds like overkill, please know it will be the safest way to go (why even bother with only 5/8"). The optimum choice for support would be to have a piece of angle iron welded in place (from front to back) to support the one end that has none right now, but that might be of more expense than you care to invest right now. I gather that you have a "standard" 30 gallon tank, that is 36" long. Since you mentioned the metal stand only as being too long, I am assuming it's a 12" wide stand (possibly for a 55 gallon) -- maybe 48" long -- rather than an 18" wide stand. For best support with the 3/4" plywood, I would cut the plywood the full length of the stand and center the tank on this. In this way, each end of the tank is only 6" away from the end of the stand as it sits on the plywood, instead of having the tank to one end of the stand with 12" of only plywood supporting the tank between the otherwise unsupported end, and the far end of the stand. Remember, the longer this weight sits on the plywood, even if it doesn't get wet, it will tend to take a set (a warp) under the continued weight after a while unless it's thick enough and unless it's well supported by the stand -- not having the weight very far from any supporting metal stand member. As these metal tank stands are almost always painted black, give the plywood several coats of black also. Not only will it be far less noticeable, but it will help seal the plywood from absorbing moisture. One thing you apparently haven't realized though, is that regardless if an all glass tank is sitting on a metal-lipped stand or on a flat wood top stand, NONE of the tank's glass bottom is supported by anything except it's plastic bottom frame. The tank's glass bottom does not rest on anything, as the plastic frame has a lip extending down at least 1/4" or so; the tank is supported by this -- which must in turn be supported evenly. As you're on a budget, and who isn't now-a-days, try Home Depot for the plywood. Not all of them, but many Home Depots do custom cutting for their customers (I'm not saying for you to get a custom cut piece). These Home Depots always have odd-sized off-cuts of various thicknesses of plywood. There are 3 Home Depots in a 5 mile radius of me. Two of them do custom cutting and usually have odd pieces for sale at bargain prices. I just picked up a piece of 3/4" x 23" x 48" plywood this past Thursday for $2. There were many more off-cuts still available, some very similar (one - 3/4" - that I measured to be 19" x 48") priced all the same if the size were similar. Check that out at your Home Depot as your first source, and look for "Marine" plywood if you can find it, it holds up to moisture even better. Ray --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, toddswoman496861@... wrote: > > > I just got a used one today for my 30 gallon=2 0tank. However, it is too long for my tank. I was wondering if I put a 1/4 inch piece of plywood under it if that would be strong enough to hold it? I figure the extra length I can use as a shelf to put my fish food etc on > > > > > > > Kate Dale

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 40890	From: bill 1433	Date: 6/14/2009
Subject: Re: about aquarium stands

Kate, May I offer this? IF your going to use ANY type plywood, Please chose the Marine Grade as Ray mentioned! This product has a special glue that is NOT as readily affected by water contact. It is by its nature one of the most expensive grades.  For safety though, I would paint the entire section to be used with Premium quality sealer or better yet a Polyurethane for water contact. Paint all surfaces.   Although all of this sounds a bit much, believe me, any wood contact with water could well cause the plywood or any wood, to buckle or wrap and cause damage to the aquarium on top or worse!  I have done this many times in the past and these are the hard lessons I learned.  For any wood, of any type, on or near an aquarium; paint all surfaces with a good quality water-proofing urethane.  Better safe than sorry. Your stand will last a life time and so will your nerves! Bill --- On Sun, 6/14/09, Raymond Wetzel <sevenspringss@...> wrote: > From: Raymond Wetzel <sevenspringss@...> > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: about aquarium stands > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Date: Sunday, June 14, 2009, 10:33 PM > Kate, It has already been established > that 1/4" plywood is not strong enough to support the 30 > gallon tank rigidly enough.  While the 1/2" plywood > you've decided on may hold this tank evenly right now, you > need toi consider several things about plywood -- and > especially plywood that is under the stress of a constant > weight, while considering the distinct possibility because > of it's very use, that it quite well may be subjected to > exposure to water at some point during the time you have > this tank set up.  This, despite the fact you you may > do everything to prevent such an accidental spill.  It > doesn't take much water spilled over an edge of a tank, > maybe during a PWC when you least expect it.  > > This water acting on plywood, as it's absorbed into the > grain, will enable the plywood to warp under the weight of > 250 pounds if it's not thick enough.  As long as you're > going with plywood, and that's a good choice of support > material if of sufficient thickness, I would go another 1/4" > thick to 3/4" plywood, and if this sounds like overkill, > please know it will be the safest way to go (why even bother > with only 5/8").  The optimum choice for support would > be to have a piece of angle iron welded in place (from front > to back) to support the one end that has none right now, but > that might be of more expense than you care to invest right > now.  > > I gather that you have a "standard" 30 gallon tank, that is > 36" long.  Since you mentioned the metal stand only as > being too long, I am assuming it's a 12" wide stand > (possibly for a 55 gallon) -- maybe 48" long -- rather than > an 18" wide stand.  For best support with the 3/4" > plywood, I would cut the plywood the full length of the > stand and center the tank on this.  In this way, each > end of the tank is only 6" away from the end of the stand as > it sits on the plywood, instead of having the tank to one > end of the stand with 12" of only plywood supporting the > tank between the otherwise unsupported end, and the far end > of the stand. Remember, the longer this weight sits on the > plywood, even if it doesn't get wet, it will tend to take a > set (a warp) under the continued weight after a while unless > it's thick enough and unless it's well supported by the > stand -- not having the weight very far from any supporting > metal stand member. > > As these metal tank stands are almost always painted black, > give the plywood several coats of black also.  Not only > will it be far less noticeable, but it will help seal the > plywood from absorbing moisture.  One thing you > apparently haven't realized though, is that regardless if an > all glass tank is sitting on a metal-lipped stand or on a > flat wood top stand, NONE of the tank's glass bottom is > supported by anything except it's plastic bottom > frame.  The tank's glass bottom does not rest on > anything, as the plastic frame has a lip extending down at > least 1/4" or so; the tank is supported by this -- which > must in turn be supported evenly. > > As you're on a budget, and who isn't now-a-days, try Home > Depot for the plywood.  Not all of them, but many Home > Depots do custom cutting for their customers (I'm not saying > for you to get a custom cut piece).  These Home Depots > always have odd-sized off-cuts of various thicknesses of > plywood.  There are 3 Home Depots in a 5 mile radius of > me.  Two of them do custom cutting and usually have odd > pieces for sale at bargain prices. I just picked up a piece > of 3/4" x 23" x 48" plywood this past Thursday for $2.  > There were many more off-cuts still available, some very > similar (one - 3/4" - that I measured to be 19" x 48") > priced all the same if the size were similar.  Check > that out at your Home Depot as your first source, and look > for "Marine" plywood if you can find it, it holds up to > moisture even better.  Ray > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, > toddswoman496861@... wrote: > > > > > >  I just got a used one today for my 30 gallon > tank. However, it is too long for my tank. I was wondering > if I put a 1/4 inch piece of plywood under it if that would > be strong enough to hold it? I figure the extra length I can > use as a shelf to put my fish food etc on > > > > > > > >  > > > > > > Kate Dale > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > > > > ------------------------------------ > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when > replying, Thank You. > ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> > ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> > PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is > NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of > the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new > subject (was re: old subject)" <- > <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. > , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. > > If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of > unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by > clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the home page.  > > Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com > to receive the digest, which includes up to 25 posts at a > time in a single email > > Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com > for the No E-Mail option where you will still be able to > read messages on the group and post replies. > > Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com > to receive individual e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links > > >     mailto:AquaticLife-fullfeatured@yahoogroups.com > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 40891	From: bill 1433	Date: 6/14/2009
Subject: Re: about aquarium stands

Not good enough!  It does not really make or seal to be "water-proof"!   Bill --- On Sun, 6/14/09, toddswoman496861@... <toddswoman496861@...> wrote: From: toddswoman496861@... <toddswoman496861@...> Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: about aquarium stands To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Date: Sunday, June 14, 2009, 10:46 PM was planning on using thompsons water sealant on the plywood. Kate Dale -----Original Message----- From: Raymond Wetzel <sevenspringss@...> To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Sun, Jun 14, 2009 10:33 pm Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: about aquarium stands Kate, It has already been established that 1/4" plywood is not strong enough to support the 30 gallon tank rigidly enough.  While the 1/2" plywood you've decided on may hold this tank evenly right now, you need toi consider several things about plywood -- and especially plywood that is under the stress of a constant weight, while considering the distinct possibility because of it's very use, that it quite well may be subjected to exposure to water at some point during the time you have this tank set up.  This, despite the fact you you may do everything to prevent such an accidental spill.  It doesn't take much water spilled over an edge of a tank, maybe during a PWC when you least expect it..  This water acting on plywood, as it's absorbed into the grain, will enable the plywood to warp under the weight of 250 pounds if it's not thick enough.  As long as you're going with plywood, and that's a good choice of support material if of sufficient thickness, I would go another 1/4" thick to 3/4" plywood, and if this sounds like overkill, please know it will be the safest way to go (why even bother with only 5/8").  The optimum choice for support would20be to have a piece of angle iron welded in place (from front to back) to support the one end that has none right now, but that might be of more expense than you care to invest right now.  I gather that you have a "standard" 30 gallon tank, that is 36" long.  Since you mentioned the metal stand only as being too long, I am assuming it's a 12" wide stand (possibly for a 55 gallon) -- maybe 48" long -- rather than an 18" wide stand.  For best support with the 3/4" plywood, I would cut the plywood the full length of the stand and center the tank on this.  In this way, each end of the tank is only 6" away from the end of the stand as it sits on the plywood, instead of having the tank to one end of the stand with 12" of only plywood supporting the tank between the otherwise unsupported end, and the far end of the stand. Remember, the longer this weight sits on the plywood, even if it doesn't get wet, it will tend to take a set (a warp) under the continued weight after a while unless it's thick enough and unless it's well supported by the stand -- not having the weight very far from any supporting metal stand member. As these metal tank stands are almost always painted black, give the plywood several coats of black also.  Not only will it be far less noticeable, but it will help seal the plywood from absorbing moisture.  One thing you apparently haven't realized though, is that regardless if an all glass tan k is sitting on a metal-lipped stand or on a flat wood top stand, NONE of the tank's glass bottom is supported by anything except it's plastic bottom frame.  The tank's glass bottom does not rest on anything, as the plastic frame has a lip extending down at least 1/4" or so; the tank is supported by this -- which must in turn be supported evenly. As you're on a budget, and who isn't now-a-days, try Home Depot for the plywood.  Not all of them, but many Home Depots do custom cutting for their customers (I'm not saying for you to get a custom cut piece).  These Home Depots always have odd-sized off-cuts of various thicknesses of plywood.  There are 3 Home Depots in a 5 mile radius of me.  Two of them do custom cutting and usually have odd pieces for sale at bargain prices. I just picked up a piece of 3/4" x 23" x 48" plywood this past Thursday for $2.  There were many more off-cuts still available, some very similar (one - 3/4" - that I measured to be 19" x 48") priced all the same if the size were similar.  Check that out at your Home Depot as your first source, and look for "Marine" plywood if you can find it, it holds up to moisture even better.  Ray --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, toddswoman496861@... wrote: > > >  I just got a used one today for my 30 gallon tank. However, it is too long for my tank. I was wondering if I put a 1/4 inch piece of plywood under it if that would be strong enough to hold it? I figure the extra length I can use as a shelf to put my fish food etc on > > > >  > > > Kate Dale > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > ------------------------------------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the home page.  Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com to receive the digest, which includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com for the No E-Mail option where you will still be able to read messages on the group and post replies. Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com to receive individual e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] ------------------------------------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the home page.  Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com to receive the digest, which includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com for the No E-Mail option where you will still be able to read messages on the group and post replies. Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com to receive individual e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 40892	From: toddswoman496861@aim.com	Date: 6/14/2009
Subject: Re: about aquarium stands

that I have done already. just actually have to borrow a  saw.  was able to come up with some free lumber that is a little over half an inch thick Kate Dale -----Original Message----- From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@...> To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Sun, Jun 14, 2009 11:00 pm Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: about aquarium stands YES... do it ASAP as the bowing table could be putting stress on the tank that could cause it to burst without notice. I might even transfer the water, plants, decorations, fish and filter system to a plastic tub or something, immediately, just to make sure you do not get a rude awakening. Just leave a couple of inches of water to cover up the gravel with maybe 1/2" of water over the gravel to keep it "alive" and from stinking until you can move the tank. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of toddswoman496861@... Sent: Sunday, June 14, 2009 9:50 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: about aquarium stands no not standard then. tank is just shy of 13" wide and 24" long.  the stand fits the tank width wise but not lenght wise got to it soon as the table it is on now is bowing down in=2 0the middle Kate Dale -----Original Message----- From: Raymond Wetzel <sevenspringss@...> To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Sun, Jun 14, 2009 10:33 pm Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: about aquarium stands Kate, It has already been established that 1/4" plywood is not strong enough to support the 30 gallon tank rigidly enough. While the 1/2" plywood you've decided on may hold this tank evenly right now, you need toi consider several things about plywood -- and especially plywood that is under the stress of a constant weight, while considering the distinct possibility because of it's very use, that it quite well may be subjected to exposure to water at some point during the time you have this tank set up. This, despite the fact you you may do everything to prevent such an accidental spill. It doesn't take much water spilled over an edge of a tank, maybe during a PWC when you least expect it. This water acting on plywood, as it's absorbed into the grain, will enable the plywood to warp under the weight of 250 pounds if it's not thick enough. As long as you're going with plywood, and that's a good choice of support material if of sufficient thickness, I would go another 1/4" thick to 3/4" plywood, and if this sounds like overkill, please know it will be the safest way to go (why even bother with only 5/8"). The optimum choice for support would be to have a piece of angle iron welded in place (from front to back) to support the one end that has no ne right now, but that might be of more expense than you care to invest right now. I gather that you have a "standard" 30 gallon tank, that is 36" long. Since you mentioned the metal stand only as being too long, I am assuming it's a 12" wide stand (possibly for a 55 gallon) -- maybe 48" long -- rather than an 18" wide stand. For best support with the 3/4" plywood, I would cut the plywood the full length of the stand and center the tank on this. In this way, each end of the tank is only 6" away from the end of the stand as it sits on the plywood, instead of having the tank to one end of the stand with 12" of only plywood supporting the tank between the otherwise unsupported end, and the far end of the stand. Remember, the longer this weight sits on the plywood, even if it doesn't get wet, it will tend to take a set (a warp) under the continued weight after a while unless it's thick enough and unless it's well supported by the stand -- not having the weight very far from any supporting metal stand member. As these metal tank stands are almost always painted black, give the plywood several coats of black also. Not only will it be far less noticeable, but it will help seal the plywood from absorbing moisture. One thing you apparently haven't realized though, is that regardless if an all glass tank is sitting on a metal-lipped stand or on a flat wood top stand, NONE of the tank's glass bottom is supported by anything except it's plastic bott om frame. The tank's glass bottom does not rest on anything, as the plastic frame has a lip extending down at least 1/4" or so; the tank is supported by this -- which must in turn be supported evenly. As you're on a budget, and who isn't now-a-days, try Home Depot for the plywood. Not all of them, but many Home Depots do custom cutting for their customers (I'm not saying for you to get a custom cut piece). These Home Depots always have odd-sized off-cuts of various thicknesses of plywood. There are 3 Home Depots in a 5 mile radius of me. Two of them do custom cutting and usually have odd pieces for sale at bargain prices. I just picked up a piece of 3/4" x 23" x 48" plywood this past Thursday for $2. There were many more off-cuts still available, some very similar (one - 3/4" - that I measured to be 19" x 48") priced all the same if the size were similar. Check that out at your Home Depot as your first source, and look for "Marine" plywood if you can find it, it holds up to moisture even better. Ray --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, toddswoman496861@... wrote: > > > I just got a used one today for my 30 gallon=2 0tank. However, it is too long for my tank. I was wondering if I put a 1/4 inch piece of plywood under it if that would be strong enough to hold it? I figure the extra length I can use as a shelf to put my fish food etc on > > > > > > > Kate Dale ------------------------------------=0 A Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the home page. Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com to receive the digest, which includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com for the No E-Mail option where you will still be able to read messages on the group and post replies. Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com to receive individual e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links mailto:AquaticLife-fullfeatured@yahoogroups.com [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 40893	From: toddswoman496861@aim.com	Date: 6/14/2009
Subject: Re: about aquarium stands

will do so. Kate Dale -----Original Message----- From: bill 1433 <warrenprint@...> To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Sun, Jun 14, 2009 11:07 pm Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: about aquarium stands Kate, May I offer this? IF your going to use ANY type plywood, Please chose the Marine Grade as Ray mentioned! This product has a special glue that is NOT as readily affected by water contact. It is by its nature one of the most expensive grades.  For safety though, I would paint the entire section to be used with Premium quality sealer or better yet a Polyurethane for water contact. Paint all surfaces.   Although all of this sounds a bit much, believe me, any wood contact with water could well cause the plywood or any wood, to buckle or wrap and cause damage to the aquarium on top or worse!  I have done this many times in the past and these are the hard lessons I learned.  For any wood, of any type, on or near an aquarium; paint all surfaces with a good quality water-proofing urethane.  Better safe than sorry. Your stand will last a life time and so will your nerves! Bill --- On Sun, 6/14/09, Raymond Wetzel <sevenspringss@...> wrote: > From: Raymond Wetzel <sevenspringss@...> > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: about aquarium stands > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Date: Sunday, June 14, 2009, 10:33 PM > Kate, It has already been established > that 1/4" plywood is not strong=2 0enough to support the 30 > gallon tank rigidly enough.  While the 1/2" plywood > you've decided on may hold this tank evenly right now, you > need toi consider several things about plywood -- and > especially plywood that is under the stress of a constant > weight, while considering the distinct possibility because > of it's very use, that it quite well may be subjected to > exposure to water at some point during the time you have > this tank set up.  This, despite the fact you you may > do everything to prevent such an accidental spill.  It > doesn't take much water spilled over an edge of a tank, > maybe during a PWC when you least expect it.  > > This water acting on plywood, as it's absorbed into the > grain, will enable the plywood to warp under the weight of > 250 pounds if it's not thick enough.  As long as you're > going with plywood, and that's a good choice of support > material if of sufficient thickness, I would go another 1/4" > thick to 3/4" plywood, and if this sounds like overkill, > please know it will be the safest way to go (why even bother > with only 5/8").  The optimum choice for support would > be to have a piece of angle iron welded in place (from front > to back) to support the one end that has none right now, but > that might be of more expense than you care to invest right > now.  > > I gather that you have a "standard" 30 gallon tank, that is > 36" long.  Since you mentioned the me tal stand only as > being too long, I am assuming it's a 12" wide stand > (possibly for a 55 gallon) -- maybe 48" long -- rather than > an 18" wide stand.  For best support with the 3/4" > plywood, I would cut the plywood the full length of the > stand and center the tank on this.  In this way, each > end of the tank is only 6" away from the end of the stand as > it sits on the plywood, instead of having the tank to one > end of the stand with 12" of only plywood supporting the > tank between the otherwise unsupported end, and the far end > of the stand. Remember, the longer this weight sits on the > plywood, even if it doesn't get wet, it will tend to take a > set (a warp) under the continued weight after a while unless > it's thick enough and unless it's well supported by the > stand -- not having the weight very far from any supporting > metal stand member. > > As these metal tank stands are almost always painted black, > give the plywood several coats of black also.  Not only > will it be far less noticeable, but it will help seal the > plywood from absorbing moisture.  One thing you > apparently haven't realized though, is that regardless if an > all glass tank is sitting on a metal-lipped stand or on a > flat wood top stand, NONE of the tank's glass bottom is > supported by anything except it's plastic bottom > frame.  The tank's glass bottom does not rest on > anything, as the plastic frame has a lip extending=2 0down at > least 1/4" or so; the tank is supported by this -- which > must in turn be supported evenly. > > As you're on a budget, and who isn't now-a-days, try Home > Depot for the plywood.  Not all of them, but many Home > Depots do custom cutting for their customers (I'm not saying > for you to get a custom cut piece).  These Home Depots > always have odd-sized off-cuts of various thicknesses of > plywood.  There are 3 Home Depots in a 5 mile radius of > me.  Two of them do custom cutting and usually have odd > pieces for sale at bargain prices. I just picked up a piece > of 3/4" x 23" x 48" plywood this past Thursday for $2.  > There were many more off-cuts still available, some very > similar (one - 3/4" - that I measured to be 19" x 48") > priced all the same if the size were similar.  Check > that out at your Home Depot as your first source, and look > for "Marine" plywood if you can find it, it holds up to > moisture even better.  Ray > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, > toddswoman496861@... wrote: > > > > > >  I just got a used one today for my 30 gallon > tank. However, it is too long for my tank. I was wondering > if I put a 1/4 inch piece of plywood under it if that would > be strong enough to hold it? I figure the extra length I can > use as a shelf to put my fish food etc on > > > > > > > >  > > > > > > Kate Dale > > > > >=2 0> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > > > > ------------------------------------ > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when > replying, Thank You. > ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> > ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> > PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is > NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of > the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new > subject (was re: old subject)" <- > <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. > , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. > > If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of > unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by > clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the home page.  > > Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com > to receive the digest, which includes up to 25 posts at a > time in a single email > > Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com > for the No E-Mail option where you will still be able to > read messages on the group and post replies. > > Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com > to receive individual e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links > > >     mailto:AquaticLife-fullfeatured@yahoogroups.com > > > [Non-text portion s of this message have been removed] ------------------------------------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the home page. Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com to receive the digest, which includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com for the No E-Mail option where you will still be able to read messages on the group and post replies. Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com to receive individual e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links (Yahoo! ID required) [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 40894	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 6/14/2009
Subject: Red tailed catfish

I took a picture of the red tailed catfish before I rehomed him today. He was a good 6 or 7 inches from the look of it. Tail was starting to turn red (apparently it gets darker with age). If anyone wants to see how big he got in the last month I posted a pic to the groups, as soon as it's approved you guys can see him. Here is a link to my group photos: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife/photos/album/243006836/pic/list Amber

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 40895	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 6/14/2009
Subject: Re: Red tailed catfish

When I first looked at it, it looked like he was in a toilet bowl. DON'T DO IT AMBER. LOL Is that a 5G bucket? Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Amber Berglund Sent: Sunday, June 14, 2009 11:18 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Red tailed catfish I took a picture of the red tailed catfish before I rehomed him today. He was a good 6 or 7 inches from the look of it. Tail was starting to turn red (apparently it gets darker with age). If anyone wants to see how big he got in the last month I posted a pic to the groups, as soon as it's approved you guys can see him. Here is a link to my group photos: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife/photos/album/243006836/pic/list Amber

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 40896	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 6/14/2009
Subject: Re: Red tailed catfish

Oh, I meant to add. He sure is a good looking fish though! And he looks well fed too! LOL Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Amber Berglund Sent: Sunday, June 14, 2009 11:18 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Red tailed catfish I took a picture of the red tailed catfish before I rehomed him today. He was a good 6 or 7 inches from the look of it. Tail was starting to turn red (apparently it gets darker with age). If anyone wants to see how big he got in the last month I posted a pic to the groups, as soon as it's approved you guys can see him. Here is a link to my group photos: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife/photos/album/243006836/pic/list Amber

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 40897	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 6/14/2009
Subject: Re: Red tailed catfish

Yes he is in a 5 gallon bucket in that photo, not a toilet bowl ;) LOL. Amber Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > > > When I first looked at it, it looked like he was in a toilet bowl. > > DON'T DO IT AMBER. LOL > > Is that a 5G bucket? > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right > side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On > Behalf Of Amber Berglund > Sent: Sunday, June 14, 2009 11:18 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Subject: [AquaticLife] Red tailed catfish > > I took a picture of the red tailed catfish before I rehomed him today. > He was a good 6 or 7 inches from the look of it. Tail was starting to turn > red (apparently it gets darker with age). > If anyone wants to see how big he got in the last month I posted a pic to > the groups, as soon as it's approved you guys can see him. > Here is a link to my group photos: > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife/photos/album/243006836/pic/list > <http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife/photos/album/243006836/pic/list> > > Amber > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 40898	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 6/14/2009
Subject: Re: Red tailed catfish

Yep, I'd say he ate 3 male guppy's, 1 ram, and who knows how many baby platy's ;) Oh and I also lost a tetra or 2... yeah I'd say between the fish and the sinking pellets he was very well fed ;) LOL Very pretty fish, I just don't enjoy feeding him $10 meals ;) Amber Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > > > Oh, I meant to add. He sure is a good looking fish though! And he looks > well fed too! LOL > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right > side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On > Behalf Of Amber Berglund > Sent: Sunday, June 14, 2009 11:18 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Subject: [AquaticLife] Red tailed catfish > > I took a picture of the red tailed catfish before I rehomed him today. > He was a good 6 or 7 inches from the look of it. Tail was starting to turn > red (apparently it gets darker with age). > If anyone wants to see how big he got in the last month I posted a pic to > the groups, as soon as it's approved you guys can see him. > Here is a link to my group photos: > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife/photos/album/243006836/pic/list > <http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife/photos/album/243006836/pic/list> > > Amber > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 40899	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 6/14/2009
Subject: Re: Red tailed catfish

He looks bigger than 6-7 inches, at least in TL. It looks like he reaches from side to side in the bucket, including the tail. I haven't measured the diameter of the bottom a 5G bucket lately but it should be close to 12"... right? How much away is the other side from the end of the tail? Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Amber Berglund Sent: Sunday, June 14, 2009 11:29 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Red tailed catfish Yes he is in a 5 gallon bucket in that photo, not a toilet bowl ;) LOL. Amber Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > > > When I first looked at it, it looked like he was in a toilet bowl. > > DON'T DO IT AMBER. LOL > > Is that a 5G bucket? > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> (Links to any articles referenced in > above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels > and also under Archives by Year, Month) > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On Behalf Of Amber Berglund > Sent: Sunday, June 14, 2009 11:18 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Subject: [AquaticLife] Red tailed catfish > > I took a picture of the red tailed catfish before I rehomed him today. > He was a good 6 or 7 inches from the look of it. Tail was starting to > turn red (apparently it gets darker with age). > If anyone wants to see how big he got in the last month I posted a pic > to the groups, as soon as it's approved you guys can see him. > Here is a link to my group photos: > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife/photos/album/243006836/pic/list > <http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife/photos/album/243006836/pic/ > list> > > Amber

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 40900	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 6/14/2009
Subject: Re: Red tailed catfish

I think his tail reached maybe an inch to an inch and a half away? That's a guess since the fish is long gone, he left this afternoon. I have several pics to look at though and compare. All I know is that he was as long as the piece of slate I had sitting in the tank that he hid behind ;) I suppose I could take it out of the tank and measure the piece of slate ;) LOL. Amber Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > > > He looks bigger than 6-7 inches, at least in TL. It looks like he reaches > from side to side in the bucket, including the tail. I haven't > measured the > diameter of the bottom a 5G bucket lately but it should be close to 12"... > right? How much away is the other side from the end of the tail? > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right > side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On > Behalf Of Amber Berglund > Sent: Sunday, June 14, 2009 11:29 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Red tailed catfish > > Yes he is in a 5 gallon bucket in that photo, not a toilet bowl ;) LOL. > > Amber > > Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > > > > > > When I first looked at it, it looked like he was in a toilet bowl. > > > > DON'T DO IT AMBER. LOL > > > > Is that a 5G bucket? > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>> > (Links to any articles referenced in > > above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels > > and also under Archives by Year, Month) > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On Behalf Of Amber Berglund > > Sent: Sunday, June 14, 2009 11:18 PM > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > Subject: [AquaticLife] Red tailed catfish > > > > I took a picture of the red tailed catfish before I rehomed him today. > > He was a good 6 or 7 inches from the look of it. Tail was starting to > > turn red (apparently it gets darker with age). > > If anyone wants to see how big he got in the last month I posted a pic > > to the groups, as soon as it's approved you guys can see him. > > Here is a link to my group photos: > > > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife/photos/album/243006836/pic/list > <http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife/photos/album/243006836/pic/list> > > > > <http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife/photos/album/243006836/pic/ > <http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife/photos/album/243006836/pic/> > > list> > > > > Amber > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 40902	From: Rodrigues Gilbert	Date: 6/15/2009
Subject: (no subject)

Hi,I'm getting in on this subject pretty late since I'm in Hawaii. I would agree in using atleas 3/4" plywood. I was going to mention Home Depot's scrap bin too since I check it out regularly myself and I do find many usable pieces there too. Another thing I'd like to add is when you do set the top on secure it with a few screws from the underside.At least this will keep the middle from spreading out. I also would like to add that if you can get a thin piece of foam (insulation type) or old carpeting cut to fit under the aquarium it would help to protect the bottom edge. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 40903	From: toddswoman496861@aim.com	Date: 6/15/2009
Subject: Re: (unknown)

that I plan on first though I have to get the wood cut. If i do it right the wood will go from one end t the other with no gaps at all Kate Dale -----Original Message----- From: Rodrigues Gilbert <grodhi96792@...> To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Mon, Jun 15, 2009 3:04 am Subject: [AquaticLife] (unknown) Hi,I'm getting in on this subject pretty late since I'm in Hawaii. I would agree in using atleas 3/4" plywood. I was going to mention Home Depot's scrap bin too since I check it out regularly myself and I do find many usable pieces there too. Another thing I'd like to add is when you do set the top on secure it with a few screws from the underside.At least this will keep the middle from spreading out. I also would like to add that if you can get a thin piece of foam (insulation type) or old carpeting cut to fit under the aquarium it would help to protect the bottom edge. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] ------------------------------------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e.=2 0"new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the home page. Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com to receive the digest, which includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com for the No E-Mail option where you will still be able to read messages on the group and post replies. Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com to receive individual e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 40904	From: PJ Barina	Date: 6/15/2009
Subject: Take the stand to a Welding Shop (mom and pop preferably)

and tell the man the aquarium will weigh upwards of 300 lbs. and have him weld a piece of steel to the top. paint with rustoleum paint and you're done and safe. Also, don't forget to secure the aquarium to the stand and the whole kit n kaboodle to the wall in case of earth quake.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 40905	From: toddswoman496861@aim.com	Date: 6/15/2009
Subject: Re: Take the stand to a Welding Shop (mom and pop preferably)

wish i could but I am dealing with a very limited income as I am on a fixed income. Kate Dale -----Original Message----- From: PJ Barina <1rustydog@...> To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Mon, Jun 15, 2009 11:23 am Subject: [AquaticLife] Take the stand to a Welding Shop (mom and pop preferably) and tell the man the aquarium will weigh upwards of 300 lbs. and have him weld a piece of steel to the top. paint with rustoleum paint and you're done and safe. Also, don't forget to secure the aquarium to the stand and the whole kit n kaboodle to the wall in case of earth quake. ------------------------------------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My Mem bership" on the home page. Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com to receive the digest, which includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com for the No E-Mail option where you will still be able to read messages on the group and post replies. Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com to receive individual e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 40906	From: gail	Date: 6/15/2009
Subject: Why do Algae blooms only occur in my 55 Gallon?

Okay, I have been having algae blooms only occuring in my 55 gallon. Is it because it is my most populated tank? Or could it be due to that, and the light fixture on it? I currently have a light on it, that came with it. I bought it at a yard sale last summer, and the guy just told me that the lights were benneficial for Coral. It has two lights inside of it, a blue florescent and a white florescent. And it has a cooling fan on the light fixture, but that is all that I know about it. Can anyone here, outline the Typical causes of an algae bloom?   Thanks! Gail [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 40907	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 6/15/2009
Subject: Re: Why do Algae blooms only occur in my 55 Gallon?

The BIG THREE things for plants (and them unwanted single celled plants = Algae) is Lighting, CO2 & Nutrients. A heavier bioload could certainly be part of the problem as the heavier bioload would mean more fish poop and pee (ammonia, nitrates, phosphates) which are the principle feeding NUTRIENTS for plants and algae are single celled plants. The heavier bioload also means higher carbon and CO2 levels in the water from the fish breathing and from the detritus decaying and putting out carbonic acid. The LIGHTING could also be part of the problem. You have to look at the actual bulbs for any writing on them. The "blue" tube is likely an actinic light and the "white" tube could be fluorescent or compact fluorescent or other. Give us all the information/writing off of the bulbs, usually on one end. This would include wattage, lumens, item number, etc. Here's a two part article about planted tanks, that originally appeared in TFH Magazine, I think in 2006, and the second part of the article talks more about algae and will likely answer all/most of your questions. PART 1 - http://naturalaquariums.com/plantedtank/0509.html PART 2 - http://naturalaquariums.com/plantedtank/0510.html Doing more frequent tank maintenance (gravel vacuuming, proper filter cleaning, PWC's) on the tank with the heavier bioload and algae issues would be the first thing as this would lower the available nutrients and lower the CO2 level in the tank. The lighting, we can answer more once we know more. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of gail Sent: Monday, June 15, 2009 4:37 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Why do Algae blooms only occur in my 55 Gallon? Okay, I have been having algae blooms only occuring in my 55 gallon. Is it because it is my most populated tank? Or could it be due to that, and the light fixture on it? I currently have a light on it, that came with it. I bought it at a yard sale last summer, and the guy just told me that the lights were benneficial for Coral. It has two lights inside of it, a blue florescent and a white florescent. And it has a cooling fan on the light fixture, but that is all that I know about it. Can anyone here, outline the Typical causes of an algae bloom?   Thanks! Gail

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 40908	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 6/15/2009
Subject: Mystery Snails

Does anyone out there successfully keep mystery snails in their tanks at a pH lower than 7? I have been told on a freshwater forum that anything below 7.6 pH is unacceptable for mystery snails as their shells will deteriorate no matter how much calcium you supplement in their diet. Amber

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 40909	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 6/15/2009
Subject: Re: Why do Algae blooms only occur in my 55 Gallon?

Have the algae blooms been there since you started using that light fixture? Or did you increase your bio-load a lot since you got it at any point? Amber gail wrote: > > > Okay, I have been having algae blooms only occuring in my 55 gallon. > Is it because it is my most populated tank? Or could it be due to > that, and the light fixture on it? I currently have a light on it, > that came with it. I bought it at a yard sale last summer, and the guy > just told me that the lights were benneficial for Coral. It has two > lights inside of it, a blue florescent and a white florescent. And it > has a cooling fan on the light fixture, but that is all that I know > about it. > Can anyone here, outline the Typical causes of an algae bloom? > > Thanks! > Gail > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 40910	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 6/15/2009
Subject: Re: Mystery Snails

Also I was told to adjust my pH to 7.6 before getting the snails, which I truthfully do not want to do as we all know bad things happen when you try to mess with mother nature ;) Amber Amber Berglund wrote: > > > Does anyone out there successfully keep mystery snails in their tanks at > a pH lower than 7? I have been told on a freshwater forum that anything > below 7.6 pH is unacceptable for mystery snails as their shells will > deteriorate no matter how much calcium you supplement in their diet. > > Amber > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 40911	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 6/15/2009
Subject: Re: Mystery Snails

I don't think that's an accurate statement. Here's a snip from Applesnail.net... http://www.applesnail.net/content/care.php (scroll down to the Housing - Water section) "Apple snails that are found in the aquarium trade don't make high demands when it comes to water quality: they can live very well in clear, streaming, oxygen-rich water as well in still water, with rotting organic waste, containing almost no oxygen. In general one should apply the same rules for water quality as with fish (ammonia, nitrite, nitrate etc) and the water should not be too soft. Like most snails, apple snails prefer calcium rich water. If the calcium concentration in the water isn't high enough (soft water), they aren't able to build a strong shell and become susceptible to shell damage, but even in good conditions, some snails still get little holes in the shell surface, especially in the older parts of their shell. This is a naturally occurring process and as long it's only at the surface, you shouldn't worry too much about it. In the 'snail disease' section, you can see an example of a snail with a damaged shell. Young and healthy snails are somewhat protected against this as the outer layer of the shell consist of a protein layer that prevents a breakdown of the shell, but damaged shells and shells of older snails are quite vulnerable to shell deterioration." While the Care sheet doesn't specifically mention pH levels, the fact that Apple Snails (the larger nearly identical cousins of Mystery Snails) can live in "still water with rotting organic waste, containing almost no oxygen" would typically mean a very low pH as the rotting organics would put out LOTS of carbonic acid and/or tannins, lowering the pH quite a bit. I still think calcium rich water and/or diet would be needed for the snail to grow a healthy shell. Read the rest of the Care and Ecology pages at http://www.applesnail.net for more details. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Amber Berglund Sent: Monday, June 15, 2009 9:56 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Mystery Snails Does anyone out there successfully keep mystery snails in their tanks at a pH lower than 7? I have been told on a freshwater forum that anything below 7.6 pH is unacceptable for mystery snails as their shells will deteriorate no matter how much calcium you supplement in their diet. Amber

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 40912	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 6/15/2009
Subject: Re: Mystery Snails

Who is telling you this? Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Amber Berglund Sent: Monday, June 15, 2009 10:01 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Mystery Snails Also I was told to adjust my pH to 7.6 before getting the snails, which I truthfully do not want to do as we all know bad things happen when you try to mess with mother nature ;) Amber Amber Berglund wrote: > > > Does anyone out there successfully keep mystery snails in their tanks > at a pH lower than 7? I have been told on a freshwater forum that > anything below 7.6 pH is unacceptable for mystery snails as their > shells will deteriorate no matter how much calcium you supplement in their diet. > > Amber

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 40913	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 6/15/2009
Subject: Re: Mystery Snails

A senior member on a fish forum I joined. I was not taking the advice to heart that is why I was asking questions here to see just how accurate their info was. Thanks, Amber Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > > > Who is telling you this? > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right > side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) > > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On > Behalf Of Amber Berglund > Sent: Monday, June 15, 2009 10:01 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Mystery Snails > > Also I was told to adjust my pH to 7.6 before getting the snails, which I > truthfully do not want to do as we all know bad things happen when you try > to mess with mother nature ;) > > Amber > > Amber Berglund wrote: > > > > > > Does anyone out there successfully keep mystery snails in their tanks > > at a pH lower than 7? I have been told on a freshwater forum that > > anything below 7.6 pH is unacceptable for mystery snails as their > > shells will deteriorate no matter how much calcium you supplement in > their > diet. > > > > Amber > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 40914	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 6/15/2009
Subject: Re: Mystery Snails

Thanks for that, I read over their care sheet again (I read it a month ago but I didn't see anything about pH then either, and still don't ;) ). On the apple snail forums no one even answers anyone who asks questions about lower pH versus KH and GH. I know that I have a substantial KH and GH now as I have added dead chunks of coral and a couple of shells to the tank and I occasionally check that the KH and GH doesn't go up too high on the "chart". I'm wondering if everyone mistakes the pH levels for what the snails really need which is KH and GH for proper shell growth (they need calcium and calcium is in the coral and the shells which keep the pH stable and raise the KH and GH slowly), if I had the calcium test kit I would know for sure, but not yet ;) I suppose I will know soon enough just how well they will do in my water, hopefully it's not too bad. Amber Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > > > I don't think that's an accurate statement. Here's a snip from > Applesnail.net... > > http://www.applesnail.net/content/care.php > <http://www.applesnail.net/content/care.php> (scroll down to the Housing - > Water section) > > "Apple snails that are found in the aquarium trade don't make high demands > when it comes to water quality: they can live very well in clear, > streaming, > oxygen-rich water as well in still water, with rotting organic waste, > containing almost no oxygen. > > In general one should apply the same rules for water quality as with fish > (ammonia, nitrite, nitrate etc) and the water should not be too soft. Like > most snails, apple snails prefer calcium rich water. If the calcium > concentration in the water isn't high enough (soft water), they aren't > able > to build a strong shell and become susceptible to shell damage, but > even in > good conditions, some snails still get little holes in the shell surface, > especially in the older parts of their shell. This is a naturally > occurring > process and as long it's only at the surface, you shouldn't worry too much > about it. In the 'snail disease' section, you can see an example of a > snail > with a damaged shell. Young and healthy snails are somewhat protected > against this as the outer layer of the shell consist of a protein > layer that > prevents a breakdown of the shell, but damaged shells and shells of older > snails are quite vulnerable to shell deterioration." > > While the Care sheet doesn't specifically mention pH levels, the fact that > Apple Snails (the larger nearly identical cousins of Mystery Snails) can > live in "still water with rotting organic waste, containing almost no > oxygen" would typically mean a very low pH as the rotting organics > would put > out LOTS of carbonic acid and/or tannins, lowering the pH quite a bit. I > still think calcium rich water and/or diet would be needed for the > snail to > grow a healthy shell. > > Read the rest of the Care and Ecology pages at > http://www.applesnail.net <http://www.applesnail.net> for > more details. > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right > side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On > Behalf Of Amber Berglund > Sent: Monday, June 15, 2009 9:56 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Subject: [AquaticLife] Mystery Snails > > Does anyone out there successfully keep mystery snails in their tanks at a > pH lower than 7? I have been told on a freshwater forum that anything > below > 7.6 pH is unacceptable for mystery snails as their shells will deteriorate > no matter how much calcium you supplement in their diet. > > Amber > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 40915	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 6/15/2009
Subject: Re: Mystery Snails

Since the snails live in nearly every kind of water parameter, the key is having a sufficient calcium level in the water and their diet. Cuttlebone pieces in your filter will slowly dissolve and provide calcium carbonate into your water column. Here's the Applesnail.net thread on calcium rich foods... http://www.applesnail.net/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=3988 Please do not mistake the food item at the top of that list with what you might call some of us guys out here in this forum. ;-) Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Amber Berglund Sent: Monday, June 15, 2009 10:59 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Mystery Snails A senior member on a fish forum I joined. I was not taking the advice to heart that is why I was asking questions here to see just how accurate their info was. Thanks, Amber Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > > > Who is telling you this? > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> (Links to any articles referenced in > above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels > and also under Archives by Year, Month) > > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On Behalf Of Amber Berglund > Sent: Monday, June 15, 2009 10:01 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Mystery Snails > > Also I was told to adjust my pH to 7.6 before getting the snails, > which I truthfully do not want to do as we all know bad things happen > when you try to mess with mother nature ;) > > Amber > > Amber Berglund wrote: > > > > > > Does anyone out there successfully keep mystery snails in their > > tanks at a pH lower than 7? I have been told on a freshwater forum > > that anything below 7.6 pH is unacceptable for mystery snails as > > their shells will deteriorate no matter how much calcium you > > supplement in > their > diet. > > > > Amber

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 40916	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 6/16/2009
Subject: Re: Mystery Snails

Very handy link, thanks Lenny :) I can get cuttlebone to put in my filters easy enough, should I just use small amounts at first? Amber Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > > > Since the snails live in nearly every kind of water parameter, the key is > having a sufficient calcium level in the water and their diet. Cuttlebone > pieces in your filter will slowly dissolve and provide calcium carbonate > into your water column. > > Here's the Applesnail.net thread on calcium rich foods... > http://www.applesnail.net/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=3988 > <http://www.applesnail.net/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=3988> > > Please do not mistake the food item at the top of that list with what you > might call some of us guys out here in this forum. ;-) > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right > side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On > Behalf Of Amber Berglund > Sent: Monday, June 15, 2009 10:59 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Mystery Snails > > A senior member on a fish forum I joined. I was not taking the advice to > heart that is why I was asking questions here to see just how accurate > their > info was. > > Thanks, > Amber > > Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > > > > > > Who is telling you this? > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>> > (Links to any articles referenced in > > above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels > > and also under Archives by Year, Month) > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On Behalf Of Amber Berglund > > Sent: Monday, June 15, 2009 10:01 PM > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Mystery Snails > > > > Also I was told to adjust my pH to 7.6 before getting the snails, > > which I truthfully do not want to do as we all know bad things happen > > when you try to mess with mother nature ;) > > > > Amber > > > > Amber Berglund wrote: > > > > > > > > > Does anyone out there successfully keep mystery snails in their > > > tanks at a pH lower than 7? I have been told on a freshwater forum > > > that anything below 7.6 pH is unacceptable for mystery snails as > > > their shells will deteriorate no matter how much calcium you > > > supplement in > > their > > diet. > > > > > > Amber > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 40917	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 6/16/2009
Subject: Re: Mystery Snails

I have never tested my calcium levels and my water is kind of hard to start with so the pieces of cuttlebone http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cuttlebone that I put in my filters last a LONG time. I suspect that in your more acidic water (low pH), it might dissolve faster, so you should probably start with a few small pieces and see how fast they dissolve. Due to the porous structure of cuttlebone, I'm sure it doubles as biological filter media as well. I remember you also said you have pieces or crushed coral in your tank(s) and that will do the same thing although I find that cuttlebone is a little softer and I think less expensive. I've never really compared the price of cuttlebone versus crushed coral but I would suspect that the coral is more expensive simply by the fact that coral is expensive to begin with and cuttlebone is simply a trash by-product of the Cuttlefish which is a food item according to this snip from http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cuttlefish ... "Cuttlefish are caught for food in the Mediterranean, East Asia, the English Channel and elsewhere. Although squid is more popular as a restaurant dish all over the world, in East Asia dried shredded cuttlefish is a highly popular snack food. Cuttlefish is especially popular in Italy, where it is used in Risotto al Nero di Seppia (literally black cuttlefish rice). The Croatian Crni Rižot is virtually the same recipe, which probably originated in Venice and then spread across both coasts of the Adriatic. "Nero" and "Crni" mean black, the color the rice turns because of the cuttlefish ink. Spanish cuisine, especially that of the coastal regions, uses cuttlefish and squid ink for the marine flavor and smoothness it provides; it is included in dishes such as rice, pasta and fish stews. In Portugal, it is the regional dish of the city of Setúbal and surrounding areas, where it is served as deep-fried strips or in a variant of feijoada, with red kidney beans." (END SNIP) I know with birds (parrots, parakeets, etc.) actually eat right off of the cuttlebone for calcium dietary supplement and cuttlebone is also used by turtle keepers. I have tried dropping pieces of cuttlebone in my tank, behind plants and when I had my Mystery Snails, I would occasionally see them on the cuttlebone but I wasn't sure if they were just nibbling on algae growing on it or actually nibbling on the cuttlebone itself. You could also try that once you get some. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Amber Berglund Sent: Tuesday, June 16, 2009 10:53 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Mystery Snails Very handy link, thanks Lenny :) I can get cuttlebone to put in my filters easy enough, should I just use small amounts at first? Amber Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > > > Since the snails live in nearly every kind of water parameter, the key > is having a sufficient calcium level in the water and their diet. > Cuttlebone pieces in your filter will slowly dissolve and provide > calcium carbonate into your water column. > > Here's the Applesnail.net thread on calcium rich foods... > http://www.applesnail.net/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=3988 > <http://www.applesnail.net/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=3988> > > Please do not mistake the food item at the top of that list with what > you might call some of us guys out here in this forum. ;-) > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> (Links to any articles referenced in > above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels > and also under Archives by Year, Month) > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On Behalf Of Amber Berglund > Sent: Monday, June 15, 2009 10:59 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Mystery Snails > > A senior member on a fish forum I joined. I was not taking the advice > to heart that is why I was asking questions here to see just how > accurate their info was. > > Thanks, > Amber > > Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > > > > > > Who is telling you this? > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>> > (Links to any articles referenced in > > above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under > > Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On Behalf Of Amber Berglund > > Sent: Monday, June 15, 2009 10:01 PM > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Mystery Snails > > > > Also I was told to adjust my pH to 7.6 before getting the snails, > > which I truthfully do not want to do as we all know bad things > > happen when you try to mess with mother nature ;) > > > > Amber > > > > Amber Berglund wrote: > > > > > > > > > Does anyone out there successfully keep mystery snails in their > > > tanks at a pH lower than 7? I have been told on a freshwater forum > > > that anything below 7.6 pH is unacceptable for mystery snails as > > > their shells will deteriorate no matter how much calcium you > > > supplement in > > their > > diet. > > > > > > Amber > > ------------------------------------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the home page. Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com to receive the digest, which includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com for the No E-Mail option where you will still be able to read messages on the group and post replies. Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com to receive individual e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 40918	From: Gail	Date: 6/16/2009
Subject: Re: Why do Algae blooms only occur in my 55 Gallon?

I have a large bio load in this particular tank. And If I slack (even in the slightest) on my weekly maintenance... I get a bloom. This tank contains 20 fish total. I have cut down the amount of fish I have in this tank, unfortunately.. there are a few that I couldnt' catch to put into another tank. :( I think my bioload and tank light are two of the major contributors to my problem. --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, Amber Berglund <amber@...> wrote: > > Have the algae blooms been there since you started using that light > fixture? Or did you increase your bio-load a lot since you got it at any > point? > > Amber > > gail wrote: > > > > > > Okay, I have been having algae blooms only occuring in my 55 gallon. > > Is it because it is my most populated tank? Or could it be due to > > that, and the light fixture on it? I currently have a light on it, > > that came with it. I bought it at a yard sale last summer, and the guy > > just told me that the lights were benneficial for Coral. It has two > > lights inside of it, a blue florescent and a white florescent. And it > > has a cooling fan on the light fixture, but that is all that I know > > about it. > > Can anyone here, outline the Typical causes of an algae bloom? > > > > Thanks! > > Gail > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 40919	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 6/16/2009
Subject: Re: Why do Algae blooms only occur in my 55 Gallon?

I would like to agree with you, if you get an algae bloom when you slack on tank cleaning. It sounds like the algae is a good thing though even if it looks bad because it is using up the waste from the fish. You could try adding easy to grow plants to the tank, they will use up the waste too and help battle the algae blooms. Amber Gail <clandestine662002@...> wrote: >I have a large bio load in this particular tank. And If I slack (even in the slightest) on my weekly maintenance... I get a bloom. This tank contains 20 fish total. I have cut down the amount of fish I have in this tank, unfortunately.. there are a few that I couldnt' catch to put into another tank. :( I think my bioload and tank light are two of the major contributors to my problem. > > >--- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, Amber Berglund <amber@...> wrote: >> >> Have the algae blooms been there since you started using that light >> fixture? Or did you increase your bio-load a lot since you got it at any >> point? >> >> Amber >> >> gail wrote: >> > >> > >> > Okay, I have been having algae blooms only occuring in my 55 gallon. >> > Is it because it is my most populated tank? Or could it be due to >> > that, and the light fixture on it? I currently have a light on it, >> > that came with it. I bought it at a yard sale last summer, and the guy >> > just told me that the lights were benneficial for Coral. It has two >> > lights inside of it, a blue florescent and a white florescent. And it >> > has a cooling fan on the light fixture, but that is all that I know >> > about it. >> > Can anyone here, outline the Typical causes of an algae bloom? >> > >> > Thanks! >> > Gail >> > >> > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] >> > >> > >> > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 40920	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 6/16/2009
Subject: Re: Mystery Snails

I have parrots so I get cuttlebones periodically so that's not a big deal to me. Thanks for all the background info though. ;) Amber "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@...> wrote: >I have never tested my calcium levels and my water is kind of hard to start with so the pieces of cuttlebone http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cuttlebone that I put in my filters last a LONG time. I suspect that in your more acidic water (low pH), it might dissolve faster, so you should probably start with a few small pieces and see how fast they dissolve. Due to the porous structure of cuttlebone, I'm sure it doubles as biological filter media as well. > >I remember you also said you have pieces or crushed coral in your tank(s) and that will do the same thing although I find that cuttlebone is a little softer and I think less expensive. I've never really compared the price of cuttlebone versus crushed coral but I would suspect that the coral is more expensive simply by the fact that coral is expensive to begin with and cuttlebone is simply a trash by-product of the Cuttlefish which is a food item according to this snip from http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cuttlefish ... > >"Cuttlefish are caught for food in the Mediterranean, East Asia, the English Channel and elsewhere. Although squid is more popular as a restaurant dish all over the world, in East Asia dried shredded cuttlefish is a highly popular snack food. > >Cuttlefish is especially popular in Italy, where it is used in Risotto al Nero di Seppia (literally black cuttlefish rice). The Croatian Crni Rižot is virtually the same recipe, which probably originated in Venice and then spread across both coasts of the Adriatic. "Nero" and "Crni" mean black, the color the rice turns because of the cuttlefish ink. Spanish cuisine, especially that of the coastal regions, uses cuttlefish and squid ink for the marine flavor and smoothness it provides; it is included in dishes such as rice, pasta and fish stews. > >In Portugal, it is the regional dish of the city of Setúbal and surrounding areas, where it is served as deep-fried strips or in a variant of feijoada, with red kidney beans." >(END SNIP) > >I know with birds (parrots, parakeets, etc.) actually eat right off of the cuttlebone for calcium dietary supplement and cuttlebone is also used by turtle keepers. I have tried dropping pieces of cuttlebone in my tank, behind plants and when I had my Mystery Snails, I would occasionally see them on the cuttlebone but I wasn't sure if they were just nibbling on algae growing on it or actually nibbling on the cuttlebone itself. You could also try that once you get some. > >Lenny Vasbinder >Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com >(Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) > > > >-----Original Message----- >From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Amber Berglund >Sent: Tuesday, June 16, 2009 10:53 AM >To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com >Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Mystery Snails > >Very handy link, thanks Lenny :) >I can get cuttlebone to put in my filters easy enough, should I just use small amounts at first? > >Amber > >Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: >> >> >> Since the snails live in nearly every kind of water parameter, the key >> is having a sufficient calcium level in the water and their diet. >> Cuttlebone pieces in your filter will slowly dissolve and provide >> calcium carbonate into your water column. >> >> Here's the Applesnail.net thread on calcium rich foods... >> http://www.applesnail.net/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=3988 >> <http://www.applesnail.net/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=3988> >> >> Please do not mistake the food item at the top of that list with what >> you might call some of us guys out here in this forum. ;-) >> >> Lenny Vasbinder >> Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com >> <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> (Links to any articles referenced in >> above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels >> and also under Archives by Year, Month) >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com >> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> >> [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com >> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On Behalf Of Amber Berglund >> Sent: Monday, June 15, 2009 10:59 PM >> To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> >> Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Mystery Snails >> >> A senior member on a fish forum I joined. I was not taking the advice >> to heart that is why I was asking questions here to see just how >> accurate their info was. >> >> Thanks, >> Amber >> >> Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: >> > >> > >> > Who is telling you this? >> > >> > Lenny Vasbinder >> > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com >> <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> >> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>> >> (Links to any articles referenced in >> > above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under >> > Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) >> > >> > >> > -----Original Message----- >> > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com >> > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> >> > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> >> > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com >> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> >> > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On Behalf Of Amber Berglund >> > Sent: Monday, June 15, 2009 10:01 PM >> > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com >> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> >> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> >> > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Mystery Snails >> > >> > Also I was told to adjust my pH to 7.6 before getting the snails, >> > which I truthfully do not want to do as we all know bad things >> > happen when you try to mess with mother nature ;) >> > >> > Amber >> > >> > Amber Berglund wrote: >> > > >> > > >> > > Does anyone out there successfully keep mystery snails in their >> > > tanks at a pH lower than 7? I have been told on a freshwater forum >> > > that anything below 7.6 pH is unacceptable for mystery snails as >> > > their shells will deteriorate no matter how much calcium you >> > > supplement in >> > their >> > diet. >> > > >> > > Amber >> >> > > >------------------------------------ > >Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. >·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. >We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. > >If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the home page. > >Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com to receive the digest, which includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email > >Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com for the No E-Mail option where you will still be able to read messages on the group and post replies. > >Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com to receive individual e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 40921	From: steve pellowe	Date: 6/16/2009
Subject: Re: Why do Algae blooms only occur in my 55 Gallon?

have you got it near a window ? does it get sunlight more than the others ? ________________________________ From: Amber Berglund <amber@...> To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Tuesday, 16 June, 2009 18:53:49 Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: Why do Algae blooms only occur in my 55 Gallon? I would like to agree with you, if you get an algae bloom when you slack on tank cleaning. It sounds like the algae is a good thing though even if it looks bad because it is using up the waste from the fish. You could try adding easy to grow plants to the tank, they will use up the waste too and help battle the algae blooms. Amber Gail <clandestine662002@ yahoo.com> wrote: >I have a large bio load in this particular tank. And If I slack (even in the slightest) on my weekly maintenance. .. I get a bloom. This tank contains 20 fish total. I have cut down the amount of fish I have in this tank, unfortunately. . there are a few that I couldnt' catch to put into another tank. :( I think my bioload and tank light are two of the major contributors to my problem. > > >--- In AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com, Amber Berglund <amber@...> wrote: >> >> Have the algae blooms been there since you started using that light >> fixture? Or did you increase your bio-load a lot since you got it at any >> point? >> >> Amber >> >> gail wrote: >> > >> > >> > Okay, I have been having algae blooms only occuring in my 55 gallon. >> > Is it because it is my most populated tank? Or could it be due to >> > that, and the light fixture on it? I currently have a light on it, >> > that came with it. I bought it at a yard sale last summer, and the guy >> > just told me that the lights were benneficial for Coral. It has two >> > lights inside of it, a blue florescent and a white florescent. And it >> > has a cooling fan on the light fixture, but that is all that I know >> > about it. >> > Can anyone here, outline the Typical causes of an algae bloom? >> > >> > Thanks! >> > Gail >> > >> > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] >> > >> > >> > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 40922	From: Courtland Jacob	Date: 6/16/2009
Subject: travelling

I hate when i have to travel, I am always nervous about my fish and i hate having to buy and use those time release weekend feeders!

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 40923	From: greychildren	Date: 6/16/2009
Subject: new 55g set up project..pic's

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife/photos/recent/list? Hi guyz Setting up (Finally) my 55g. guys have any ideas on what else should i add? its been running for 3 weeks there are some fish i transfer from my 40g and some new ones( count hold myself)..lol i got..3 gold gouramis 3 painted Platys and 2 sunburst platys...Go take a look at the pics and please tell me what you think..

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 40924	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 6/16/2009
Subject: Re: travelling

Actually those weekend feeders are more harmful to your tank than not feeding your fish for the week. Healthy fish can last a week (or more) without food if they have to. If you're going to be gone a week or less it's probably safer to not have someone feeding your fish if they don't know how to properly clean the tank for you as well as you could come back to overfed fish that died :( If you don't have someone reliable to take care of your fish it's safer to leave them be for a week without food, if you don't have any live plants in the tank you can also leave the lights off for a week and it won't harm anything. If you have plants I would suggest getting a light timer so you can set your light fixture to turn off and on without you. Amber Courtland Jacob wrote: > > > I hate when i have to travel, I am always nervous about my fish and i > hate having to buy and use those time release weekend feeders! > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 40925	From: pam andress	Date: 6/16/2009
Subject: Re: new 55g set up project..pic's

PLANTS and more PLANTS!!!! lol Pam To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com From: greychildren@... Date: Tue, 16 Jun 2009 21:42:53 +0000 Subject: [AquaticLife] new 55g set up project..pic's http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife/photos/recent/list? Hi guyz Setting up (Finally) my 55g. guys have any ideas on what else should i add? its been running for 3 weeks there are some fish i transfer from my 40g and some new ones( count hold myself)..lol i got..3 gold gouramis 3 painted Platys and 2 sunburst platys...Go take a look at the pics and please tell me what you think.. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 40926	From: bill 1433	Date: 6/16/2009
Subject: Re: travelling

I would only add---------------------make sure you have a very good reliable heater! You really don't want to come home to a fresh tank of cooked fish do you?   Bill --- On Tue, 6/16/09, Amber Berglund <amber@...> wrote: From: Amber Berglund <amber@...> Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] travelling To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Date: Tuesday, June 16, 2009, 5:47 PM Actually those weekend feeders are more harmful to your tank than not feeding your fish for the week. Healthy fish can last a week (or more) without food if they have to. If you're going to be gone a week or less it's probably safer to not have someone feeding your fish if they don't know how to properly clean the tank for you as well as you could come back to overfed fish that died :( If you don't have someone reliable to take care of your fish it's safer to leave them be for a week without food, if you don't have any live plants in the tank you can also leave the lights off for a week and it won't harm anything. If you have plants I would suggest getting a light timer so you can set your light fixture to turn off and on without you. Amber Courtland Jacob wrote: > > > I hate when i have to travel, I am always nervous about my fish and i > hate having to buy and use those time release weekend feeders! > > ------------------------------------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the home page.  Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com to receive the digest, which includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com for the No E-Mail option where you will still be able to read messages on the group and post replies. Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com to receive individual e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 40927	From: biG poppa	Date: 6/16/2009
Subject: Re: new 55g set up project..pic's

I was thinking of red lotus...mix in with fake plants..also i forgot how many fish can i have in my 50g 30? --- On Tue, 6/16/09, pam andress <pamandress23@...> wrote: From: pam andress <pamandress23@...> Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] new 55g set up project..pic's To: aquaticlife@yahoogroups.com Date: Tuesday, June 16, 2009, 6:01 PM PLANTS and more PLANTS!!!! lol Pam To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com From: greychildren@ yahoo.com Date: Tue, 16 Jun 2009 21:42:53 +0000 Subject: [AquaticLife] new 55g set up project..pic' s http://groups. yahoo.com/ group/AquaticLif e/photos/ recent/list? Hi guyz Setting up (Finally) my 55g. guys have any ideas on what else should i add? its been running for 3 weeks there are some fish i transfer from my 40g and some new ones( count hold myself)..lol i got..3 gold gouramis 3 painted Platys and 2 sunburst platys...Go take a look at the pics and please tell me what you think.. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 40928	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 6/16/2009
Subject: Re: Red tailed catfish

I must add that after getting rid of the catfish the rest of the fish in my tank seem much happier, and I have a lot more platy babies all of a sudden, I'd have to say someone just "popped" out babies ;) Definitely less stressful having him in there, don't have to count fish all the time ;) LOL. Amber Amber Berglund wrote: > > > I think his tail reached maybe an inch to an inch and a half away? > That's a guess since the fish is long gone, he left this afternoon. I > have several pics to look at though and compare. > > All I know is that he was as long as the piece of slate I had sitting in > the tank that he hid behind ;) > I suppose I could take it out of the tank and measure the piece of slate > ;) LOL. > > Amber > > Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > > > > > > He looks bigger than 6-7 inches, at least in TL. It looks like he > reaches > > from side to side in the bucket, including the tail. I haven't > > measured the > > diameter of the bottom a 5G bucket lately but it should be close to > 12"... > > right? How much away is the other side from the end of the tail? > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>> > > (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right > > side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, > Month) > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On > > Behalf Of Amber Berglund > > Sent: Sunday, June 14, 2009 11:29 PM > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Red tailed catfish > > > > Yes he is in a 5 gallon bucket in that photo, not a toilet bowl ;) LOL. > > > > Amber > > > > Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > > > > > > > > > When I first looked at it, it looked like he was in a toilet bowl. > > > > > > DON'T DO IT AMBER. LOL > > > > > > Is that a 5G bucket? > > > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>> > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>>> > > (Links to any articles referenced in > > > above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels > > > and also under Archives by Year, Month) > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On Behalf Of Amber Berglund > > > Sent: Sunday, June 14, 2009 11:18 PM > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > Subject: [AquaticLife] Red tailed catfish > > > > > > I took a picture of the red tailed catfish before I rehomed him today. > > > He was a good 6 or 7 inches from the look of it. Tail was starting to > > > turn red (apparently it gets darker with age). > > > If anyone wants to see how big he got in the last month I posted a pic > > > to the groups, as soon as it's approved you guys can see him. > > > Here is a link to my group photos: > > > > > > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife/photos/album/243006836/pic/list > <http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife/photos/album/243006836/pic/list> > > > > <http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife/photos/album/243006836/pic/list > <http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife/photos/album/243006836/pic/list>> > > > > > > > > > <http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife/photos/album/243006836/pic/ > <http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife/photos/album/243006836/pic/> > > > <http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife/photos/album/243006836/pic/ > <http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife/photos/album/243006836/pic/>> > > > list> > > > > > > Amber > > > > > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 40929	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 6/16/2009
Subject: Re: new 55g set up project..pic's

Depends on the size of the fish you get (adult size, not current size). If you keep all the fish under a max of 3 inches at adult size then you could have at least 20 fish (all 3 inches or less, maybe more if you had smaller fish mixed in). Just remember it's the adult size that matters, not what size they currently are. Anything that gets 3-5 inches should be kept in bigger tanks, or as a single fish in the 55 gallon depending on the size. Anything over 6 inches really shouldn't be in a 55 gallon at all, unless it's temporary. Hope this helps, you can always ask the group about tank stocking suggestions for you 55 based on what you have so far, which would be community fish mostly. I'm not familiar with "gold gourami's" though, are they the ones that get big and aggressive like the blue gourami's? Amber biG poppa wrote: > > > I was thinking of red lotus...mix in with fake plants..also i forgot > how many fish can i have in my 50g 30? > > --- On Tue, 6/16/09, pam andress <pamandress23@... > <mailto:pamandress23%40hotmail.com>> wrote: > > From: pam andress <pamandress23@... > <mailto:pamandress23%40hotmail.com>> > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] new 55g set up project..pic's > To: aquaticlife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:aquaticlife%40yahoogroups.com> > Date: Tuesday, June 16, 2009, 6:01 PM > > PLANTS and more PLANTS!!!! lol > > Pam > > To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com > > From: greychildren@ yahoo.com > > Date: Tue, 16 Jun 2009 21:42:53 +0000 > > Subject: [AquaticLife] new 55g set up project..pic' s > > http://groups. yahoo.com/ group/AquaticLif e/photos/ recent/list? > > Hi guyz Setting up (Finally) my 55g. guys have any ideas on what else > should i add? its been running for 3 weeks there are some fish i > transfer from my 40g and some new ones( count hold myself)..lol i > got..3 gold gouramis 3 painted Platys and 2 sunburst platys...Go take > a look at the pics and please tell me what you think.. > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 40930	From: biG poppa	Date: 6/16/2009
Subject: Re: new 55g set up project..pic's

it depends on the fish character some are aggressive some are very tame .. i had 2 dwarf red powder gouramis they were find with the other occupants in my 40g --- On Tue, 6/16/09, Amber Berglund <amber@...> wrote: From: Amber Berglund <amber@...> Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] new 55g set up project..pic's To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Date: Tuesday, June 16, 2009, 6:21 PM Depends on the size of the fish you get (adult size, not current size). If you keep all the fish under a max of 3 inches at adult size then you could have at least 20 fish (all 3 inches or less, maybe more if you had smaller fish mixed in). Just remember it's the adult size that matters, not what size they currently are. Anything that gets 3-5 inches should be kept in bigger tanks, or as a single fish in the 55 gallon depending on the size. Anything over 6 inches really shouldn't be in a 55 gallon at all, unless it's temporary. Hope this helps, you can always ask the group about tank stocking suggestions for you 55 based on what you have so far, which would be community fish mostly. I'm not familiar with "gold gourami's" though, are they the ones that get big and aggressive like the blue gourami's? Amber biG poppa wrote: > > > I was thinking of red lotus...mix in with fake plants..also i forgot > how many fish can i have in my 50g 30? > > --- On Tue, 6/16/09, pam andress <pamandress23@ hotmail.com > <mailto:pamandress2 3%40hotmail. com>> wrote: > > From: pam andress <pamandress23@ hotmail.com > <mailto:pamandress2 3%40hotmail. com>> > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] new 55g set up project..pic' s > To: aquaticlife@ yahoogroups. com <mailto:aquaticlife %40yahoogroups. com> > Date: Tuesday, June 16, 2009, 6:01 PM > > PLANTS and more PLANTS!!!! lol > > Pam > > To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com > > From: greychildren@ yahoo.com > > Date: Tue, 16 Jun 2009 21:42:53 +0000 > > Subject: [AquaticLife] new 55g set up project..pic' s > > http://groups. yahoo.com/ group/AquaticLif e/photos/ recent/list? > > Hi guyz Setting up (Finally) my 55g. guys have any ideas on what else > should i add? its been running for 3 weeks there are some fish i > transfer from my 40g and some new ones( count hold myself)..lol i > got..3 gold gouramis 3 painted Platys and 2 sunburst platys...Go take > a look at the pics and please tell me what you think.. > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 40931	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 6/16/2009
Subject: Re: travelling

I would never use one of them weekend feeder blocks. They usually result in severe over feeding of the fish and the resulting water quality issues that come when the blocks dissolve into the water column. How long will you be gone for? If only for a long weekend, then you can just go without feeding them at all. If for a week or more, then you could arrange for someone to come in twice a week and feed your fish some prepared amounts of food that you package and label in zip-loc bags or something like that. Since you mention "weekend feeders", just let them go without eating for the few days you'll be gone. The fish will be fine and will be happier to see you when you get back. Just do tank and filter maintenance a day or two before you leave so the filter is relatively clean, in case of a power failure so the filter reservoir water will not be too bad when the filter turns back on. If you have a computer's UPS (battery backup), you could plug the air pump or filter into that so it will continue to run for at least a while if the power goes out. I have a LONG article I did on my blog about power failures and how my fish and I survived Hurricane Katrina and 14 days with no power and five weeks with no useable water which also has links to other good articles about dealing with power failures. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Courtland Jacob Sent: Tuesday, June 16, 2009 3:15 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] travelling I hate when i have to travel, I am always nervous about my fish and i hate having to buy and use those time release weekend feeders!

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 40932	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 6/16/2009
Subject: Re: new 55g set up project..pic's

Plants, a background (especially if no plants). The Gouramis should grow to 6" each so 18G per Gourami is a fair amount of water volume for each of them. That, along with the expected multiplication of Platy's, unless you got all males, and you don't really have any more room for more fish so your best bet is plants to help fill in the tank a little. If you like the rock work that you've started, you could even plant the plants in small (2" to 3") terra cotta pots and then hide them a little with more rock work. This would raise the plants a few inches off the bottom putting them closer to your lighting also. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of greychildren Sent: Tuesday, June 16, 2009 4:43 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] new 55g set up project..pic's http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife/photos/recent/list? Hi guyz Setting up (Finally) my 55g. guys have any ideas on what else should i add? its been running for 3 weeks there are some fish i transfer from my 40g and some new ones( count hold myself)..lol i got..3 gold gouramis 3 painted Platys and 2 sunburst platys...Go take a look at the pics and please tell me what you think..

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 40933	From: biG poppa	Date: 6/16/2009
Subject: Re: new 55g set up project..pic's

Lets see about the gouramis Lenny i dont have good luck with them i lost a pair of red power dwarf ones.. --- On Tue, 6/16/09, Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@...> wrote: From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@...> Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] new 55g set up project..pic's To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Date: Tuesday, June 16, 2009, 8:26 PM Plants, a background (especially if no plants). The Gouramis should grow to 6" each so 18G per Gourami is a fair amount of water volume for each of them. That, along with the expected multiplication of Platy's, unless you got all males, and you don't really have any more room for more fish so your best bet is plants to help fill in the tank a little. If you like the rock work that you've started, you could even plant the plants in small (2" to 3") terra cotta pots and then hide them a little with more rock work. This would raise the plants a few inches off the bottom putting them closer to your lighting also. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com [mailto:AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com] On Behalf Of greychildren Sent: Tuesday, June 16, 2009 4:43 PM To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com Subject: [AquaticLife] new 55g set up project..pic' s http://groups. yahoo.com/ group/AquaticLif e/photos/ recent/list? Hi guyz Setting up (Finally) my 55g. guys have any ideas on what else should i add? its been running for 3 weeks there are some fish i transfer from my 40g and some new ones( count hold myself)..lol i got..3 gold gouramis 3 painted Platys and 2 sunburst platys...Go take a look at the pics and please tell me what you think.. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 40934	From: biG poppa	Date: 6/16/2009
Subject: Re: new 55g set up project..pic's

Also i have the 2 cascade 300 filter and a power head running..am i over doing it? --- On Tue, 6/16/09, Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@...> wrote: From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@...> Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] new 55g set up project..pic's To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Date: Tuesday, June 16, 2009, 8:26 PM Plants, a background (especially if no plants). The Gouramis should grow to 6" each so 18G per Gourami is a fair amount of water volume for each of them. That, along with the expected multiplication of Platy's, unless you got all males, and you don't really have any more room for more fish so your best bet is plants to help fill in the tank a little. If you like the rock work that you've started, you could even plant the plants in small (2" to 3") terra cotta pots and then hide them a little with more rock work. This would raise the plants a few inches off the bottom putting them closer to your lighting also. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com [mailto:AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com] On Behalf Of greychildren Sent: Tuesday, June 16, 2009 4:43 PM To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com Subject: [AquaticLife] new 55g set up project..pic' s http://groups. yahoo.com/ group/AquaticLif e/photos/ recent/list? Hi guyz Setting up (Finally) my 55g. guys have any ideas on what else should i add? its been running for 3 weeks there are some fish i transfer from my 40g and some new ones( count hold myself)..lol i got..3 gold gouramis 3 painted Platys and 2 sunburst platys...Go take a look at the pics and please tell me what you think.. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 40935	From: Debra	Date: 6/16/2009
Subject: ? sick orange betta is still sick

We have not heard from you in a while. How is your orange betta doing? Deb OS, MS

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 40936	From: Steve Biondi	Date: 6/16/2009
Subject: JBJ Reaction 4-Stage Canister Filter + UV EFU-45 Thoughts

Hey Lenny,Ray and the gang, Saw this filter advertised at MarineDepot. Have you had any experience with a canister with a built in UV? Seems like a pretty good idea for algae control but since they are fairly new, I am wondering if anyone has tried them. If so, thumbs up or down. Price points are good but do they provide enough filtering power to make them a good buy for the money? Thanks ,Steve [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 40937	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 6/16/2009
Subject: Re: new 55g set up project..pic's

NO... you can't have 30 fish in a 55G.. UNLESS they are all 1" to 2" maximum sized fish. A 6" Gourami is equal is body mass to dozens of 1" to 1.5" neon tetras. BIG fish like Gouramis, which not only grow to 6" long but they are NOT torpedo shaped fish so they have a LOT more body mass compared to torpedo shaped fish. See my blog article on a simple set of guidelines for figuring out proper stocking of a tank. That "One inch per gallon" rule DOES NOT work for fish that grow over 3" as adults or for wide bodied fish. http://goldlenny.blogspot.com/2007/02/new-rules-guidelines-to-replace-1-per. html Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of biG poppa Sent: Tuesday, June 16, 2009 5:15 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] new 55g set up project..pic's I was thinking of red lotus...mix in with fake plants..also i forgot how many fish can i have in my 50g 30? --- On Tue, 6/16/09, pam andress <pamandress23@...> wrote: From: pam andress <pamandress23@...> Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] new 55g set up project..pic's To: aquaticlife@yahoogroups.com Date: Tuesday, June 16, 2009, 6:01 PM PLANTS and more PLANTS!!!! lol Pam To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com From: greychildren@ yahoo.com Date: Tue, 16 Jun 2009 21:42:53 +0000 Subject: [AquaticLife] new 55g set up project..pic' s http://groups. yahoo.com/ group/AquaticLif e/photos/ recent/list? Hi guyz Setting up (Finally) my 55g. guys have any ideas on what else should i add? its been running for 3 weeks there are some fish i transfer from my 40g and some new ones( count hold myself)..lol i got..3 gold gouramis 3 painted Platys and 2 sunburst platys...Go take a look at the pics and please tell me what you think..

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 40938	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 6/16/2009
Subject: Re: Red tailed catfish

That goes to my analogy that I use about being stuck in a room with Hannibal Lector. Once they take him out the room, every one gets to sleep a LOT better. ;-) Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Amber Berglund Sent: Tuesday, June 16, 2009 5:17 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Red tailed catfish I must add that after getting rid of the catfish the rest of the fish in my tank seem much happier, and I have a lot more platy babies all of a sudden, I'd have to say someone just "popped" out babies ;) Definitely less stressful having him in there, don't have to count fish all the time ;) LOL. Amber Amber Berglund wrote: > > > I think his tail reached maybe an inch to an inch and a half away? > That's a guess since the fish is long gone, he left this afternoon. I > have several pics to look at though and compare. > > All I know is that he was as long as the piece of slate I had sitting > in the tank that he hid behind ;) I suppose I could take it out of the > tank and measure the piece of slate > ;) LOL. > > Amber > > Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > > > > > > He looks bigger than 6-7 inches, at least in TL. It looks like he > reaches > > from side to side in the bucket, including the tail. I haven't > > measured the diameter of the bottom a 5G bucket lately but it should > > be close to > 12"... > > right? How much away is the other side from the end of the tail? > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>> > > (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the > > right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by > > Year, > Month) > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On Behalf Of Amber Berglund > > Sent: Sunday, June 14, 2009 11:29 PM > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Red tailed catfish > > > > Yes he is in a 5 gallon bucket in that photo, not a toilet bowl ;) LOL. > > > > Amber > > > > Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > > > > > > > > > When I first looked at it, it looked like he was in a toilet bowl. > > > > > > DON'T DO IT AMBER. LOL > > > > > > Is that a 5G bucket? > > > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>> > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>>> > > (Links to any articles referenced in > > > above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under > > > Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On Behalf Of Amber > > > Berglund > > > Sent: Sunday, June 14, 2009 11:18 PM > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > Subject: [AquaticLife] Red tailed catfish > > > > > > I took a picture of the red tailed catfish before I rehomed him today. > > > He was a good 6 or 7 inches from the look of it. Tail was starting > > > to turn red (apparently it gets darker with age). > > > If anyone wants to see how big he got in the last month I posted a > > > pic to the groups, as soon as it's approved you guys can see him. > > > Here is a link to my group photos: > > > > > > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife/photos/album/243006836/pic/list

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 40939	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 6/16/2009
Subject: Re: Red tailed catfish

That and I don't have to count heads after Hannibal has a meal too ;) It's much nicer only replacing fish when they die of old age or an accidental illness, rather than every time one of the fish eats ;) I find it really odd that my Severum doesn't eat baby fish... it's almost like he doesn't know they're food, or could be food ;) The platy babies are doing great and growing fast, lots of little orange babies swimming around now ;) The Angel's don't even notice them, maybe platy's don't taste as good as guppy fry ;) LOL. Is that like one type of chicken tasting better than another type of chicken? ;) Amber Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > > > That goes to my analogy that I use about being stuck in a room with > Hannibal > Lector. Once they take him out the room, every one gets to sleep a LOT > better. ;-) > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right > side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) > > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On > Behalf Of Amber Berglund > Sent: Tuesday, June 16, 2009 5:17 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Red tailed catfish > > I must add that after getting rid of the catfish the rest of the fish > in my > tank seem much happier, and I have a lot more platy babies all of a > sudden, > I'd have to say someone just "popped" out babies ;) Definitely less > stressful having him in there, don't have to count fish all the time > ;) LOL. > > Amber > > Amber Berglund wrote: > > > > > > I think his tail reached maybe an inch to an inch and a half away? > > That's a guess since the fish is long gone, he left this afternoon. I > > have several pics to look at though and compare. > > > > All I know is that he was as long as the piece of slate I had sitting > > in the tank that he hid behind ;) I suppose I could take it out of the > > tank and measure the piece of slate > > ;) LOL. > > > > Amber > > > > Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > > > > > > > > > He looks bigger than 6-7 inches, at least in TL. It looks like he > > reaches > > > from side to side in the bucket, including the tail. I haven't > > > measured the diameter of the bottom a 5G bucket lately but it should > > > be close to > > 12"... > > > right? How much away is the other side from the end of the tail? > > > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>>> > > > (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the > > > right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by > > > Year, > > Month) > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On Behalf Of Amber Berglund > > > Sent: Sunday, June 14, 2009 11:29 PM > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Red tailed catfish > > > > > > Yes he is in a 5 gallon bucket in that photo, not a toilet bowl ;) > LOL. > > > > > > Amber > > > > > > Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > When I first looked at it, it looked like he was in a toilet bowl. > > > > > > > > DON'T DO IT AMBER. LOL > > > > > > > > Is that a 5G bucket? > > > > > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>> > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>>> > > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>> > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>>>> > > > (Links to any articles referenced in > > > > above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under > > > > Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On Behalf Of Amber > > > > Berglund > > > > Sent: Sunday, June 14, 2009 11:18 PM > > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > Subject: [AquaticLife] Red tailed catfish > > > > > > > > I took a picture of the red tailed catfish before I rehomed him > today. > > > > He was a good 6 or 7 inches from the look of it. Tail was starting > > > > to turn red (apparently it gets darker with age). > > > > If anyone wants to see how big he got in the last month I posted a > > > > pic to the groups, as soon as it's approved you guys can see him. > > > > Here is a link to my group photos: > > > > > > > > > > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife/photos/album/243006836/pic/list > <http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife/photos/album/243006836/pic/list> > > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 40940	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 6/16/2009
Subject: Re: new 55g set up project..pic's

Yes, every fish will not always "act" like what has been written about them but full size Gouramis also cannot be compared to Dwarf Gouramis. I believe your Gold Gouramis are just a color variant of the "Three Spot Gourami" such as the Blue Gourami, Opaline Gourami, etc. The top two profiles below are two very reliable sources of info. The other profiles are OK but when there is a conflict in information, the top two should be relied upon more heavily. http://fish.mongabay.com/species/Trichogaster_trichopterus.html http://fishbase.org/Country/CountrySpeciesSummary.cfm?c_code=690&id=4675 http://www.aquahobby.com/gallery/e_tricho.php http://www.aquahobby.com/gallery/e_tricho2.php I saw in one of your follow-up posts about the amount of filtration that you have and that is probably overkill for the Gouramis. They are labyrinth fish, like Bettas, so they can and do breath at the surface with a lung like organ. They developed this organ over thousands of years of living in nearly stagnant water with low O2 levels so they do not really like a lot of water movement. Most fish with big flat upright bodies like Gouramis have that shape because they have evolved in slow moving waters. A big flat upright fish usually does NOT like a lot of water movement. Torpedo shaped fish are more likely to enjoy fast moving waters. Gouramis also build bubble nests like a Betta, which is another reason they prefer more stagnant waters. If you have only one filter, move it to one end of the tank so that the other end will not have as much water movement. You'll likely see the Gouramis hanging out at the less active end. You can do things like raising the water level all the way up to the waterfalls so the water flows differently, with less surface agitation than if the water is actually falling into the water. Floating plants will also provide a buffer to lessen the surface agitation. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of biG poppa Sent: Tuesday, June 16, 2009 5:50 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] new 55g set up project..pic's it depends on the fish character some are aggressive some are very tame .. i had 2 dwarf red powder gouramis they were find with the other occupants in my 40g --- On Tue, 6/16/09, Amber Berglund <amber@...> wrote: From: Amber Berglund <amber@...> Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] new 55g set up project..pic's To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Date: Tuesday, June 16, 2009, 6:21 PM Depends on the size of the fish you get (adult size, not current size). If you keep all the fish under a max of 3 inches at adult size then you could have at least 20 fish (all 3 inches or less, maybe more if you had smaller fish mixed in). Just remember it's the adult size that matters, not what size they currently are. Anything that gets 3-5 inches should be kept in bigger tanks, or as a single fish in the 55 gallon depending on the size. Anything over 6 inches really shouldn't be in a 55 gallon at all, unless it's temporary. Hope this helps, you can always ask the group about tank stocking suggestions for you 55 based on what you have so far, which would be community fish mostly. I'm not familiar with "gold gourami's" though, are they the ones that get big and aggressive like the blue gourami's? Amber biG poppa wrote: > > > I was thinking of red lotus...mix in with fake plants..also i forgot > how many fish can i have in my 50g 30? > > --- On Tue, 6/16/09, pam andress <pamandress23@ hotmail.com > <mailto:pamandress2 3%40hotmail. com>> wrote: > > From: pam andress <pamandress23@ hotmail.com > <mailto:pamandress2 3%40hotmail. com>> > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] new 55g set up project..pic' s > To: aquaticlife@ yahoogroups. com <mailto:aquaticlife %40yahoogroups. > com> > Date: Tuesday, June 16, 2009, 6:01 PM > > PLANTS and more PLANTS!!!! lol > > Pam > > To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com > > From: greychildren@ yahoo.com > > Date: Tue, 16 Jun 2009 21:42:53 +0000 > > Subject: [AquaticLife] new 55g set up project..pic' s > > http://groups. yahoo.com/ group/AquaticLif e/photos/ recent/list? > > Hi guyz Setting up (Finally) my 55g. guys have any ideas on what else > should i add? its been running for 3 weeks there are some fish i > transfer from my 40g and some new ones( count hold myself)..lol i > got..3 gold gouramis 3 painted Platys and 2 sunburst platys...Go take > a look at the pics and please tell me what you think..

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 40941	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 6/16/2009
Subject: Re: JBJ Reaction 4-Stage Canister Filter + UV EFU-45 Thoughts

99% of tanks DO NOT need UV filtration. For the 1% of the time they might be OK to use, it would be only for "treatment" purposes for water column pathogens. I DO NOT think UV filters should be used for green water suspended algae issues. If one has a green water issue, the algae is blooming for a reason... usually a high pollution level with nitrates, phosphates, etc. If you kill the algae, you not only DID NOT solve the high pollution levels but the dead/decaying algae will only compound the pollution problem. There's a reason for green water suspended algae... it's God's (or Mother Nature's) way of trying to use algae to use up the excess pollution and CO2 levels so the water is safer and cleaner for the fish. While the green water may not look pretty for us fish keepers, it is usually very healthy for our fish. Many Goldfish and Koi folks that "show" their fish in shows will actually condition the fish prior to the show by letting them stay in a green water tank or pond. There are lots of microscopic life forms also living in the water column in our tanks that are part of the overall ecology of a tank. A UV filter would likely kill off all of them also which could disrupt the ecology of a tank. Many of the microscopic life forms are also part of the diet of our fish and even more so for fish fry. In closing, if someone's budget enables them to have a UV filter, it's OK to have one on hand, but they are not needed to be run on a tank full time. I don't have one but if I was ever to get one, I would get one that could be rotated between my tanks, if needed, to treat any health issues that might come up. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Steve Biondi Sent: Tuesday, June 16, 2009 7:42 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] JBJ Reaction 4-Stage Canister Filter + UV EFU-45 Thoughts Hey Lenny,Ray and the gang, Saw this filter advertised at MarineDepot. Have you had any experience with a canister with a built in UV? Seems like a pretty good idea for algae control but since they are fairly new, I am wondering if anyone has tried them. If so, thumbs up or down. Price points are good but do they provide enough filtering power to make them a good buy for the money? Thanks ,Steve

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 40942	From: Courtland Jacob	Date: 6/16/2009
Subject: Re: travelling

thanks guys, i actually just got home from buying some feeders, but i'll return them, i'm glad you guys said something, i just did a water change in my 55 gallon, i just need to do one in my others and i guess just shut the lights off for the weekend. --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@...> wrote: > > I would never use one of them weekend feeder blocks. They usually result in > severe over feeding of the fish and the resulting water quality issues that > come when the blocks dissolve into the water column. > > How long will you be gone for? If only for a long weekend, then you can > just go without feeding them at all. If for a week or more, then you could > arrange for someone to come in twice a week and feed your fish some prepared > amounts of food that you package and label in zip-loc bags or something like > that. > > Since you mention "weekend feeders", just let them go without eating for the > few days you'll be gone. The fish will be fine and will be happier to see > you when you get back. Just do tank and filter maintenance a day or two > before you leave so the filter is relatively clean, in case of a power > failure so the filter reservoir water will not be too bad when the filter > turns back on. If you have a computer's UPS (battery backup), you could > plug the air pump or filter into that so it will continue to run for at > least a while if the power goes out. > > I have a LONG article I did on my blog about power failures and how my fish > and I survived Hurricane Katrina and 14 days with no power and five weeks > with no useable water which also has links to other good articles about > dealing with power failures. > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right > side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) > > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On > Behalf Of Courtland Jacob > Sent: Tuesday, June 16, 2009 3:15 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Subject: [AquaticLife] travelling > > I hate when i have to travel, I am always nervous about my fish and i hate > having to buy and use those time release weekend feeders! >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 40943	From: Courtland Jacob	Date: 6/16/2009
Subject: Re: travelling

wait, what about my baby fish... I'm going to be gone 4 days, will they be ok? will some of the larger faster growing ones eat the smaller ones? --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@...> wrote: > > I would never use one of them weekend feeder blocks. They usually result in > severe over feeding of the fish and the resulting water quality issues that > come when the blocks dissolve into the water column. > > How long will you be gone for? If only for a long weekend, then you can > just go without feeding them at all. If for a week or more, then you could > arrange for someone to come in twice a week and feed your fish some prepared > amounts of food that you package and label in zip-loc bags or something like > that. > > Since you mention "weekend feeders", just let them go without eating for the > few days you'll be gone. The fish will be fine and will be happier to see > you when you get back. Just do tank and filter maintenance a day or two > before you leave so the filter is relatively clean, in case of a power > failure so the filter reservoir water will not be too bad when the filter > turns back on. If you have a computer's UPS (battery backup), you could > plug the air pump or filter into that so it will continue to run for at > least a while if the power goes out. > > I have a LONG article I did on my blog about power failures and how my fish > and I survived Hurricane Katrina and 14 days with no power and five weeks > with no useable water which also has links to other good articles about > dealing with power failures. > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right > side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) > > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On > Behalf Of Courtland Jacob > Sent: Tuesday, June 16, 2009 3:15 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Subject: [AquaticLife] travelling > > I hate when i have to travel, I am always nervous about my fish and i hate > having to buy and use those time release weekend feeders! >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 40944	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 6/16/2009
Subject: Re: travelling

It's possible that you may lose a few babies if you have bigger fish that will go after the small ones. With the lights out I would think it would be harder for them to find them too though. What kinds of fish are in the 55 gallon? Amber Courtland Jacob wrote: > > > wait, what about my baby fish... I'm going to be gone 4 days, will > they be ok? will some of the larger faster growing ones eat the > smaller ones? > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>, "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" > <GoldLenny@...> wrote: > > > > I would never use one of them weekend feeder blocks. They usually > result in > > severe over feeding of the fish and the resulting water quality > issues that > > come when the blocks dissolve into the water column. > > > > How long will you be gone for? If only for a long weekend, then you can > > just go without feeding them at all. If for a week or more, then you > could > > arrange for someone to come in twice a week and feed your fish some > prepared > > amounts of food that you package and label in zip-loc bags or > something like > > that. > > > > Since you mention "weekend feeders", just let them go without eating > for the > > few days you'll be gone. The fish will be fine and will be happier > to see > > you when you get back. Just do tank and filter maintenance a day or two > > before you leave so the filter is relatively clean, in case of a power > > failure so the filter reservoir water will not be too bad when the > filter > > turns back on. If you have a computer's UPS (battery backup), you could > > plug the air pump or filter into that so it will continue to run for at > > least a while if the power goes out. > > > > I have a LONG article I did on my blog about power failures and how > my fish > > and I survived Hurricane Katrina and 14 days with no power and five > weeks > > with no useable water which also has links to other good articles about > > dealing with power failures. > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right > > side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, > Month) > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On > > Behalf Of Courtland Jacob > > Sent: Tuesday, June 16, 2009 3:15 PM > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > Subject: [AquaticLife] travelling > > > > I hate when i have to travel, I am always nervous about my fish and > i hate > > having to buy and use those time release weekend feeders! > > > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 40945	From: Courtland Jacob	Date: 6/16/2009
Subject: Re: travelling

african cichlids, some of them had babies, and i moved them to a smaller tank that only has the babies in them, just some are close to being big enough to eat the others even though they are all related! --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, Amber Berglund <amber@...> wrote: > > It's possible that you may lose a few babies if you have bigger fish > that will go after the small ones. > With the lights out I would think it would be harder for them to find > them too though. > What kinds of fish are in the 55 gallon? > > Amber > > Courtland Jacob wrote: > > > > > > wait, what about my baby fish... I'm going to be gone 4 days, will > > they be ok? will some of the larger faster growing ones eat the > > smaller ones? > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>, "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" > > <GoldLenny@> wrote: > > > > > > I would never use one of them weekend feeder blocks. They usually > > result in > > > severe over feeding of the fish and the resulting water quality > > issues that > > > come when the blocks dissolve into the water column. > > > > > > How long will you be gone for? If only for a long weekend, then you can > > > just go without feeding them at all. If for a week or more, then you > > could > > > arrange for someone to come in twice a week and feed your fish some > > prepared > > > amounts of food that you package and label in zip-loc bags or > > something like > > > that. > > > > > > Since you mention "weekend feeders", just let them go without eating > > for the > > > few days you'll be gone. The fish will be fine and will be happier > > to see > > > you when you get back. Just do tank and filter maintenance a day or two > > > before you leave so the filter is relatively clean, in case of a power > > > failure so the filter reservoir water will not be too bad when the > > filter > > > turns back on. If you have a computer's UPS (battery backup), you could > > > plug the air pump or filter into that so it will continue to run for at > > > least a while if the power goes out. > > > > > > I have a LONG article I did on my blog about power failures and how > > my fish > > > and I survived Hurricane Katrina and 14 days with no power and five > > weeks > > > with no useable water which also has links to other good articles about > > > dealing with power failures. > > > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right > > > side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, > > Month) > > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On > > > Behalf Of Courtland Jacob > > > Sent: Tuesday, June 16, 2009 3:15 PM > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > Subject: [AquaticLife] travelling > > > > > > I hate when i have to travel, I am always nervous about my fish and > > i hate > > > having to buy and use those time release weekend feeders! > > > > > > > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 40946	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 6/16/2009
Subject: Re: travelling

Are the bigger ones big enough to add to the main tank? Amber Courtland Jacob wrote: > > > african cichlids, some of them had babies, and i moved them to a > smaller tank that only has the babies in them, just some are close to > being big enough to eat the others even though they are all related! > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>, Amber Berglund <amber@...> wrote: > > > > It's possible that you may lose a few babies if you have bigger fish > > that will go after the small ones. > > With the lights out I would think it would be harder for them to find > > them too though. > > What kinds of fish are in the 55 gallon? > > > > Amber > > > > Courtland Jacob wrote: > > > > > > > > > wait, what about my baby fish... I'm going to be gone 4 days, will > > > they be ok? will some of the larger faster growing ones eat the > > > smaller ones? > > > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>, "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" > > > <GoldLenny@> wrote: > > > > > > > > I would never use one of them weekend feeder blocks. They usually > > > result in > > > > severe over feeding of the fish and the resulting water quality > > > issues that > > > > come when the blocks dissolve into the water column. > > > > > > > > How long will you be gone for? If only for a long weekend, then > you can > > > > just go without feeding them at all. If for a week or more, then > you > > > could > > > > arrange for someone to come in twice a week and feed your fish some > > > prepared > > > > amounts of food that you package and label in zip-loc bags or > > > something like > > > > that. > > > > > > > > Since you mention "weekend feeders", just let them go without > eating > > > for the > > > > few days you'll be gone. The fish will be fine and will be happier > > > to see > > > > you when you get back. Just do tank and filter maintenance a day > or two > > > > before you leave so the filter is relatively clean, in case of a > power > > > > failure so the filter reservoir water will not be too bad when the > > > filter > > > > turns back on. If you have a computer's UPS (battery backup), > you could > > > > plug the air pump or filter into that so it will continue to run > for at > > > > least a while if the power goes out. > > > > > > > > I have a LONG article I did on my blog about power failures and how > > > my fish > > > > and I survived Hurricane Katrina and 14 days with no power and five > > > weeks > > > > with no useable water which also has links to other good > articles about > > > > dealing with power failures. > > > > > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>> > > > > (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on > the right > > > > side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, > > > Month) > > > > > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On > > > > Behalf Of Courtland Jacob > > > > Sent: Tuesday, June 16, 2009 3:15 PM > > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > Subject: [AquaticLife] travelling > > > > > > > > I hate when i have to travel, I am always nervous about my fish and > > > i hate > > > > having to buy and use those time release weekend feeders! > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 40947	From: Courtland Jacob	Date: 6/16/2009
Subject: Re: travelling

oh god no lol --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, Amber Berglund <amber@...> wrote: > > Are the bigger ones big enough to add to the main tank? > > Amber > > Courtland Jacob wrote: > > > > > > african cichlids, some of them had babies, and i moved them to a > > smaller tank that only has the babies in them, just some are close to > > being big enough to eat the others even though they are all related! > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>, Amber Berglund <amber@> wrote: > > > > > > It's possible that you may lose a few babies if you have bigger fish > > > that will go after the small ones. > > > With the lights out I would think it would be harder for them to find > > > them too though. > > > What kinds of fish are in the 55 gallon? > > > > > > Amber > > > > > > Courtland Jacob wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > wait, what about my baby fish... I'm going to be gone 4 days, will > > > > they be ok? will some of the larger faster growing ones eat the > > > > smaller ones? > > > > > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>, "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" > > > > <GoldLenny@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > I would never use one of them weekend feeder blocks. They usually > > > > result in > > > > > severe over feeding of the fish and the resulting water quality > > > > issues that > > > > > come when the blocks dissolve into the water column. > > > > > > > > > > How long will you be gone for? If only for a long weekend, then > > you can > > > > > just go without feeding them at all. If for a week or more, then > > you > > > > could > > > > > arrange for someone to come in twice a week and feed your fish some > > > > prepared > > > > > amounts of food that you package and label in zip-loc bags or > > > > something like > > > > > that. > > > > > > > > > > Since you mention "weekend feeders", just let them go without > > eating > > > > for the > > > > > few days you'll be gone. The fish will be fine and will be happier > > > > to see > > > > > you when you get back. Just do tank and filter maintenance a day > > or two > > > > > before you leave so the filter is relatively clean, in case of a > > power > > > > > failure so the filter reservoir water will not be too bad when the > > > > filter > > > > > turns back on. If you have a computer's UPS (battery backup), > > you could > > > > > plug the air pump or filter into that so it will continue to run > > for at > > > > > least a while if the power goes out. > > > > > > > > > > I have a LONG article I did on my blog about power failures and how > > > > my fish > > > > > and I survived Hurricane Katrina and 14 days with no power and five > > > > weeks > > > > > with no useable water which also has links to other good > > articles about > > > > > dealing with power failures. > > > > > > > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > > > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>> > > > > > (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on > > the right > > > > > side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, > > > > Month) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On > > > > > Behalf Of Courtland Jacob > > > > > Sent: Tuesday, June 16, 2009 3:15 PM > > > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > Subject: [AquaticLife] travelling > > > > > > > > > > I hate when i have to travel, I am always nervous about my fish and > > > > i hate > > > > > having to buy and use those time release weekend feeders! > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 40948	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 6/16/2009
Subject: Re: JBJ Reaction 4-Stage Canister Filter + UV EFU-45 Thoughts

I believe that UV is only effective against suspended algae, i.e. green water. It will not prevent the algae that grows on your glass or plants, or décor in the tank. \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Steve Biondi Sent: Tuesday, June 16, 2009 8:42 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] JBJ Reaction 4-Stage Canister Filter + UV EFU-45 Thoughts Hey Lenny,Ray and the gang, Saw this filter advertised at MarineDepot. Have you had any experience with a canister with a built in UV? Seems like a pretty good idea for algae control but since they are fairly new, I am wondering if anyone has tried them. If so, thumbs up or down. Price points are good but do they provide enough filtering power to make them a good buy for the money? Thanks ,Steve

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 40949	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 6/16/2009
Subject: Re: travelling

OOH... well baby fish are a different story. What kind of baby fish (fry) and how old? What are you feeding them? They should be fed the proper food(s) several times a day since they are growing at such a rapid rate and have a much higher metabolism. You should arrange for someone to come by and feed them several times a day or buy an electronic feeder that you can program to feed multiple times a day with their necessary foods. One of them feeding blocks probably isn't the proper kind of food for fry. Having fry demands a much bigger responsibility if you want them to survive. It's kind of like leaving a teenager at home for a long weekend versus a 6 month old baby. The teenager will survive... well I guess that depends on how wild the party gets and whether you kill them yourself when you get back... but the 6 month old will not fare so well after a long weekend of no food or water. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Courtland Jacob Sent: Tuesday, June 16, 2009 10:18 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: travelling wait, what about my baby fish... I'm going to be gone 4 days, will they be ok? will some of the larger faster growing ones eat the smaller ones? --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@...> wrote: > > I would never use one of them weekend feeder blocks. They usually > result in severe over feeding of the fish and the resulting water > quality issues that come when the blocks dissolve into the water column. > > How long will you be gone for? If only for a long weekend, then you > can just go without feeding them at all. If for a week or more, then > you could arrange for someone to come in twice a week and feed your > fish some prepared amounts of food that you package and label in > zip-loc bags or something like that. > > Since you mention "weekend feeders", just let them go without eating > for the few days you'll be gone. The fish will be fine and will be > happier to see you when you get back. Just do tank and filter > maintenance a day or two before you leave so the filter is relatively > clean, in case of a power failure so the filter reservoir water will > not be too bad when the filter turns back on. If you have a > computer's UPS (battery backup), you could plug the air pump or filter > into that so it will continue to run for at least a while if the power goes out. > > I have a LONG article I did on my blog about power failures and how my > fish and I survived Hurricane Katrina and 14 days with no power and > five weeks with no useable water which also has links to other good > articles about dealing with power failures. > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles > referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically > under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) > > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] > On Behalf Of Courtland Jacob > Sent: Tuesday, June 16, 2009 3:15 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Subject: [AquaticLife] travelling > > I hate when i have to travel, I am always nervous about my fish and i > hate having to buy and use those time release weekend feeders!

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 40950	From: dumasjohnj@netscape.net	Date: 6/17/2009
Subject: travelling

If I am going away for more than 5 days I leave food in envelopes with numbers and dates on them and put numbers on the tanks, so if I was to be gone for a week starting on the 10th, I would make 1 set of envelopes dated the 14th.? Alternatively for less than 5 days, I buy the smallest frozen shrimp at the store and put just enough that I know will be gone in two days, it takes them awhile to pick whole shrimp apart. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 40951	From: Raymond Wetzel	Date: 6/17/2009
Subject: travelling

While the portioned (in envelopes) plan has always been a good standby to allow others to feed your fish, the alternate plan of allowing a dead organism to exist in the tank for any length of time is risky as it will be progressively decaying during that period. Certainly, towards the end of this "two days" period, the fish are eating increasingly rotting food, and if all is not gone by that time and/or the fish cease to feed on this for various reasons (not the least could be putrefaction), ammonia could build up in the water column. Ray --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, dumasjohnj@... wrote: > > If I am going away for more than 5 days I leave food in envelopes with > numbers and dates on them and put numbers on the tanks, so if I was to > be gone for a week starting on the 10th, > > I would make 1 set of envelopes dated the 14th.? > > Alternatively for less than 5 days, I buy the smallest frozen shrimp at > the store and put just enough that I know will be gone in two days, it > takes them awhile to pick whole shrimp apart. > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 40952	From: Raymond Wetzel	Date: 6/17/2009
Subject: Re: JBJ Reaction 4-Stage Canister Filter + UV EFU-45 Thoughts

Hi Steve, Haven't had any experience with this particular filter, but I can see its concept has good applications when combined with UV. As Lenny points put though, it would not be beneficial to use it in a permanent situation -- for various reasons. Among them, would be the elimination of most all of the microscopic life forms in the water column which are part of the tank's ecology; this takes into account suspended algae as well. Those algaes which adhere to the tank's surfaces (including those surfaces of any object within the tank) would not be affected, though. "Ultra-Violet filtration" has long been used in the pond environment as a way to control suspended algae -- the dead material, if killed off by the sudden employment of UV during the height of an algae bloom, being caught by the filter which would be cleaned of this very shortly after the initiation of the UV's use. Otherwise, if UV is employed before the onset of such a bloom, any potentially developing suspended algae (Euglena, Chalamydomonas, Chlorella, etc.) would be "nipped in the bud." As has also been pointed out, this could compound any excess nutrient problems one may have -- unless there's sufficient other live plant matter (aquatic plants and/or substrate-growing algae) to address such issues. Regular water parameter testings will alert the tank or pond keeper to some of these issues, but adequate plantings will help ensure control of these excesses, even those not regularly tested for. Still, the continued "beneficial" use of UV even in these seemingly "allowable" conditions, does not preclude its near-total elimination of other microscopic life forms which are all part of the eco-system. If such a filter using UV is started at the beginning of establishing a nitrogen cycle, it would take exceedingly more time to establish such a system in one's filter -- provided the hobbyist HAD an additional filter for this purpose. If the hobbyist were to rely on just this new filter using the UV, there's no way tht I can see that a nitrogen cycle could ever get started as these microbes too would get killed off. Otherwise, when using an auxiliary filter for the purpose of establishing the needed cycle, along with this unit, most of the nitrifying bacteria first found being suspended in the water column before they have a chance to colonize this other filter. The cycle would eventually get started, but only after much addition time had elapsed. There also comes the issue of the fauna's immune system under such conditions. Just as we continually build up immunities to new pathogens that we continually exposed to, so do fishes under normal conditions -- or we perish for lack of being able to combat them. Fishes too continually combat, and need to combat, pathogens in efforts to built up their immune system against them. The lack of ongoing pathogens allowed (promoted) by UV with the caused elimination of them does not allow the tank inhabitants any further increase of their immune system. Some older fishes will have already had exposure to some pathogens, and any younger fishes put in with them will gain immunity when residing with these older inhabitants. ALL will be totally unprepared for any new pathogens in the water column, when using UV, introduced with any newer fishes -- even after a period of quarantine of these newer fishes -- and may well become infected as such. Also, just as we sustain an immunity against certain diseases over a life-time after once contracting them (unless innoculated against them), such as measles and chicken-pox -- these immunities in us weeaken after time and we are prone to contracting some of these (measles included) diseases again. So too, is the immune system of fishes similar to that of our own. After a prolonged period of living in the sterile conditions promoted by UV, these fishes' immune systems will also weaken to the point that they may become susceptable to even the smallest infestation of a pathogen that they would normally be immune to. To wrap up here, UV as a prolonged system of erradication of microbes in the water column is not a good idea. It has its uses, as Lenny points out, and can even be most beneficial in an outbreak of Ich, orther other disease, but should only be used as a temporary measure in limited applications. Ray --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Steve Biondi" <parkpac@...> wrote: > > Hey Lenny,Ray and the gang, > > Saw this filter advertised at MarineDepot. Have you had any experience with > a canister with a built in UV? Seems like a pretty good idea for algae > control but since they are fairly new, I am wondering if anyone has tried > them. If so, thumbs up or down. Price points are good but do they provide > enough filtering power to make them a good buy for the money? > > Thanks ,Steve > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 40953	From: Raymond Wetzel	Date: 6/17/2009
Subject: Re: new 55g set up project..pic's

You have already been forewarned; these fish will get to 6", as Lenny stated. These Gold Gouramis ARE Trichogaster trichopterus (Blue Gourami, 3-Spot Gourami, Opaline Gourami, etc.), just another variant. I note your reference to the fish's character. While there may sometimes be individual fish that may vary somewhat in behavior and temperament, please know that this species as a whole are notorious for being an aggressive species. Their behavior is far removed from that of their much more mellow Dwarf Gourami "cousins" or any variant of that species -- and here I'm referring to Colisa chunna (as the dwarf Red Powder Gourami is derived from), not Colisa lalia. Ray --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, biG poppa <greychildren@...> wrote: > > it depends on the fish character some are aggressive some are very tame .. i had 2 dwarf red powder gouramis they were find with the other occupants in my 40g > --- On Tue, 6/16/09, Amber Berglund <amber@...> wrote: > > From: Amber Berglund <amber@...> > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] new 55g set up project..pic's > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Date: Tuesday, June 16, 2009, 6:21 PM > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Depends on the size of the fish you get (adult size, not current size). > > If you keep all the fish under a max of 3 inches at adult size then you > > could have at least 20 fish (all 3 inches or less, maybe more if you had > > smaller fish mixed in). > > Just remember it's the adult size that matters, not what size they > > currently are. Anything that gets 3-5 inches should be kept in bigger > > tanks, or as a single fish in the 55 gallon depending on the size. > > Anything over 6 inches really shouldn't be in a 55 gallon at all, unless > > it's temporary. Hope this helps, you can always ask the group about tank > > stocking suggestions for you 55 based on what you have so far, which > > would be community fish mostly. I'm not familiar with "gold gourami's" > > though, are they the ones that get big and aggressive like the blue > > gourami's? > > > > Amber > > > > biG poppa wrote: > > > > > > > > > I was thinking of red lotus...mix in with fake plants..also i forgot > > > how many fish can i have in my 50g 30? > > > > > > --- On Tue, 6/16/09, pam andress <pamandress23@ hotmail.com > > > <mailto:pamandress2 3%40hotmail. com>> wrote: > > > > > > From: pam andress <pamandress23@ hotmail.com > > > <mailto:pamandress2 3%40hotmail. com>> > > > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] new 55g set up project..pic' s > > > To: aquaticlife@ yahoogroups. com <mailto:aquaticlife %40yahoogroups. com> > > > Date: Tuesday, June 16, 2009, 6:01 PM > > > > > > PLANTS and more PLANTS!!!! lol > > > > > > Pam > > > > > > To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com > > > > > > From: greychildren@ yahoo.com > > > > > > Date: Tue, 16 Jun 2009 21:42:53 +0000 > > > > > > Subject: [AquaticLife] new 55g set up project..pic' s > > > > > > http://groups. yahoo.com/ group/AquaticLif e/photos/ recent/list? > > > > > > Hi guyz Setting up (Finally) my 55g. guys have any ideas on what else > > > should i add? its been running for 3 weeks there are some fish i > > > transfer from my 40g and some new ones( count hold myself)..lol i > > > got..3 gold gouramis 3 painted Platys and 2 sunburst platys...Go take > > > a look at the pics and please tell me what you think.. > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 40954	From: Raymond Wetzel	Date: 6/17/2009
Subject: Re: travelling

I don't know the set-up of your rearing tank(s), or what decore (if any) you have in them, but ideally they should be segregated for species and size/age. As your fry tank(s) are mixed, and as these are African Cichlid fry -- if these are species of the rock-dwelling Mbuna try adding a number of aquarium-safe rocks which the smaller fry will find crevices and recesses in to take refuge from the larger ones -- as they do in Lake Malawi, to avoid predation. More jagged rocks such as red shale offer more hiding places rather than rounder rocks (which are found in the Rift Lakes), but then too, these rounder rocks found in the lakes can be as big as cars -- all piled next to each other provided extremely deep crevices -- not something that can be duplicated in the aquarium. Ray --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Courtland Jacob" <courtland_jacob@...> wrote: > > wait, what about my baby fish... I'm going to be gone 4 days, will they be ok? will some of the larger faster growing ones eat the smaller ones? > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@> wrote: > > > > I would never use one of them weekend feeder blocks. They usually result in > > severe over feeding of the fish and the resulting water quality issues that > > come when the blocks dissolve into the water column. > > > > How long will you be gone for? If only for a long weekend, then you can > > just go without feeding them at all. If for a week or more, then you could > > arrange for someone to come in twice a week and feed your fish some prepared > > amounts of food that you package and label in zip-loc bags or something like > > that. > > > > Since you mention "weekend feeders", just let them go without eating for the > > few days you'll be gone. The fish will be fine and will be happier to see > > you when you get back. Just do tank and filter maintenance a day or two > > before you leave so the filter is relatively clean, in case of a power > > failure so the filter reservoir water will not be too bad when the filter > > turns back on. If you have a computer's UPS (battery backup), you could > > plug the air pump or filter into that so it will continue to run for at > > least a while if the power goes out. > > > > I have a LONG article I did on my blog about power failures and how my fish > > and I survived Hurricane Katrina and 14 days with no power and five weeks > > with no useable water which also has links to other good articles about > > dealing with power failures. > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > > (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right > > side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On > > Behalf Of Courtland Jacob > > Sent: Tuesday, June 16, 2009 3:15 PM > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > Subject: [AquaticLife] travelling > > > > I hate when i have to travel, I am always nervous about my fish and i hate > > having to buy and use those time release weekend feeders! > > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 40955	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 6/17/2009
Subject: Found on the Web: Live Rock Stolen and More Aquariums

First here is a story of someone who was "farming" live rock, and had about half of his stash stolen, an estimated $1 million of rock. If you see any hot rocks, the police would like to know. http://www.keysnet.com/news/story/112556.html If you do not have enough aquariums yet, and who does, here are 15 to chose from for your next one. http://www.toxel.com/inspiration/2009/06/11/15-unusual-and-creative-aqua riums/ TinyURL: http://tinyurl.com/n53yjf \\Steve//

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 40956	From: Gail	Date: 6/17/2009
Subject: Re: Why do Algae blooms only occur in my 55 Gallon?

Okay, here is the results when I checked on my lighting fixture; it doesn't have a lot of detail on the bulbs themselves, however it is a Customsealife.com lighting product. Here is what I found: 48" Orbit 4x65W SunPaq w/Lunar Lights/Fan SmartPaq lamps are side-by-side combination blue actinic and daylight all-in-one lamps. Dual lamps contain side-by-side bulbs all-in-one of either blue actinic or daylight. Specifications: (2)dual specturm daylight bulbs, (10,000k and 6,700k) (2)dual spectrum actinic bulbs, (460nm and 420nm) 96w For now, I have been doing PWC and I vaccumed my gravel (again). I am doing this every three days, I have cut back on how much I feed my fish, and I am limiting how long my lights are on throughout the day. Please tell me your thoughts!! Thanks! Gail --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@...> wrote: > > The BIG THREE things for plants (and them unwanted single celled plants = > Algae) is Lighting, CO2 & Nutrients. > > A heavier bioload could certainly be part of the problem as the heavier > bioload would mean more fish poop and pee (ammonia, nitrates, phosphates) > which are the principle feeding NUTRIENTS for plants and algae are single > celled plants. The heavier bioload also means higher carbon and CO2 levels > in the water from the fish breathing and from the detritus decaying and > putting out carbonic acid. The LIGHTING could also be part of the problem. > You have to look at the actual bulbs for any writing on them. The "blue" > tube is likely an actinic light and the "white" tube could be fluorescent or > compact fluorescent or other. Give us all the information/writing off of > the bulbs, usually on one end. This would include wattage, lumens, item > number, etc. > > Here's a two part article about planted tanks, that originally appeared in > TFH Magazine, I think in 2006, and the second part of the article talks more > about algae and will likely answer all/most of your questions. > > PART 1 - http://naturalaquariums.com/plantedtank/0509.html > > PART 2 - http://naturalaquariums.com/plantedtank/0510.html > > Doing more frequent tank maintenance (gravel vacuuming, proper filter > cleaning, PWC's) on the tank with the heavier bioload and algae issues would > be the first thing as this would lower the available nutrients and lower the > CO2 level in the tank. The lighting, we can answer more once we know more. > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right > side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) > > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On > Behalf Of gail > Sent: Monday, June 15, 2009 4:37 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Subject: [AquaticLife] Why do Algae blooms only occur in my 55 Gallon? > > Okay, I have been having algae blooms only occuring in my 55 gallon. > Is it because it is my most populated tank? Or could it be due to that, and > the light fixture on it? I currently have a light on it, that came with it. > I bought it at a yard sale last summer, and the guy just told me that the > lights were benneficial for Coral. It has two lights inside of it, a blue > florescent and a white florescent. And it has a cooling fan on the light > fixture, but that is all that I know about it. > Can anyone here, outline the Typical causes of an algae bloom? >   > Thanks! > Gail >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 40957	From: nicurns@bellsouth.net	Date: 6/17/2009
Subject: Sexing AngelFish?

Hello all. My name is James and I live in UpState South Carolina. I have been keeping fish for more years than I would like to admit, and every 5 years or so I mix everything up and change what I am keeping. Currently we have a 1200-1500 gal pond that I built, and rebuilt, and of course rebuilt again. I am happy with my final result for now, but do keep it in the back of my head that Bigger is Better, so who knows??? We have goldfish up to 13" long with their offspring that have not been taken by the Heron during the winter. I also have 2 medium size butterfly Koi and over abundance of plants. Indoors, we have a 58gal FW tank with a 30gal sum-filter (making between 80 and 90 gal's give or take),and 2 external filters as well housing 2 large Angels, 2 cory's, and a pleco. This tank was a Reef tank for many years, but I am over all that work!!!!!! We also have a smaller tank that have a single LionHead Goldfish that is sooo friendly that he eats from your hand. He may be going to the pond for the summer... I've had all types of fish over the years, but never angel's until around 8 months ago. I visited our LSF, and they had a tank full of nickel sized babies that another customer had breed. I actually met the breeder in the store, and he has Angel's and Discus. I bought 6 of the babies, and they all did great until 3 months back when something went wacky and I lost one after another in a span of two weeks. Well the remaining 2 are now hugh (4-5" diameter). I would like them to breed or get another one to go in with them, but I don't know if I have a mixed pair, two males, or two females. Does anyone have any ideas on how to sex them? James S.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 40958	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 6/17/2009
Subject: Re: Why do Algae blooms only occur in my 55 Gallon?

You have very close to the same light fixture that I have on my 55 gallon tank, I also get a lot of algae issues. I think it's a very high output of light and if you don't have enough plants in the tank to keep up with all of that light then the algae is going to grow instead. I would suggest getting a lot of easy to grow plants that like high to medium light. If you don't want to plant them in the gravel you can put them in terra cotta pots like I do, with soil under the gravel. I have learned from past mistakes to be careful how deep I bury the roots though, so make sure to not bury your plants too deep if you try this method. If the plants start to "melt away" then they might be burried too deeply. Also crypts like to melt away when you add them to your tank but they will regrow soon after, so don't be shocked if you get a crypt of some type and it melts soon after adding it to your tank. If you have fish that uproot plants you can put rocks around the plant on top of the gravel and that will make it harder for the fish to dig up the plants. If you don't keep live plants then I would recommend hardly turning your lights on at all during the day as any light is going to promote algae growth in your overstocked tank. Amber Gail wrote: > > > Okay, here is the results when I checked on my lighting fixture; it > doesn't have a lot of detail on the bulbs themselves, however it is a > Customsealife.com lighting product. Here is what I found: > 48" Orbit 4x65W SunPaq w/Lunar Lights/Fan > SmartPaq lamps are side-by-side combination blue actinic and daylight > all-in-one lamps. Dual lamps contain side-by-side bulbs all-in-one of > either blue actinic or daylight. > > Specifications: > (2)dual specturm daylight bulbs, (10,000k and 6,700k) > (2)dual spectrum actinic bulbs, (460nm and 420nm) > 96w > > For now, I have been doing PWC and I vaccumed my gravel (again). I am > doing this every three days, I have cut back on how much I feed my > fish, and I am limiting how long my lights are on throughout the day. > > Please tell me your thoughts!! > > Thanks! > Gail > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>, "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" > <GoldLenny@...> wrote: > > > > The BIG THREE things for plants (and them unwanted single celled > plants = > > Algae) is Lighting, CO2 & Nutrients. > > > > A heavier bioload could certainly be part of the problem as the heavier > > bioload would mean more fish poop and pee (ammonia, nitrates, > phosphates) > > which are the principle feeding NUTRIENTS for plants and algae are > single > > celled plants. The heavier bioload also means higher carbon and CO2 > levels > > in the water from the fish breathing and from the detritus decaying and > > putting out carbonic acid. The LIGHTING could also be part of the > problem. > > You have to look at the actual bulbs for any writing on them. The "blue" > > tube is likely an actinic light and the "white" tube could be > fluorescent or > > compact fluorescent or other. Give us all the information/writing off of > > the bulbs, usually on one end. This would include wattage, lumens, item > > number, etc. > > > > Here's a two part article about planted tanks, that originally > appeared in > > TFH Magazine, I think in 2006, and the second part of the article > talks more > > about algae and will likely answer all/most of your questions. > > > > PART 1 - http://naturalaquariums.com/plantedtank/0509.html > <http://naturalaquariums.com/plantedtank/0509.html> > > > > PART 2 - http://naturalaquariums.com/plantedtank/0510.html > <http://naturalaquariums.com/plantedtank/0510.html> > > > > Doing more frequent tank maintenance (gravel vacuuming, proper filter > > cleaning, PWC's) on the tank with the heavier bioload and algae > issues would > > be the first thing as this would lower the available nutrients and > lower the > > CO2 level in the tank. The lighting, we can answer more once we know > more. > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right > > side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, > Month) > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On > > Behalf Of gail > > Sent: Monday, June 15, 2009 4:37 PM > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > Subject: [AquaticLife] Why do Algae blooms only occur in my 55 Gallon? > > > > Okay, I have been having algae blooms only occuring in my 55 gallon. > > Is it because it is my most populated tank? Or could it be due to > that, and > > the light fixture on it? I currently have a light on it, that came > with it. > > I bought it at a yard sale last summer, and the guy just told me > that the > > lights were benneficial for Coral. It has two lights inside of it, a > blue > > florescent and a white florescent. And it has a cooling fan on the light > > fixture, but that is all that I know about it. > > Can anyone here, outline the Typical causes of an algae bloom? > > > > Thanks! > > Gail > > > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 40959	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 6/17/2009
Subject: Re: Sexing AngelFish?

Angel's are not able to be sexed unless they are actively laying eggs (spawning). Their sexual organs are inside obviously ;) LOL. I have a mated pair of angel's and I just happened to get lucky that way, I started out with 2 and one died, so I replaced it with another and that 2nd one turned out to be female and my first was a male. Most people get groups of angel's and wait until they pair up to find a pair to mate. Are your angel's showing any sign of mating behavior at all? When mine get ready to lay eggs they will chase all the other fish to the other side of the tank and start cleaning a spot to lay their eggs on (while the other one guards for intruders the female will start to lay the eggs, then they take turns guarding while the male fertilizes the eggs). If you haven't seen too much aggression towards your other fish and the other 2 teaming up together and chasing the other fish away then I'd have to guess you have 2 of the same sex. It may be hard to introduce smaller angel's at this point in time as the bigger ones will pick on the smaller ones. I suppose you could slowly try introducing some new angel's with a tank divider and see how aggressive the big ones are with the divider in. If they are really aggressive and attack at the divider then you may have to wait until the smaller angel's get closer in size to the big ones, you can speed up that process (a little) by frequent water changes and feeding the young Angel's really well, just make sure to keep the water changes going (don't go overboard on them, once a day should me more than plenty if you're doing 25% changes), this helps remove the hormones from the water so the fish will grow a little faster. Unless you can talk to the breeder some how and see if they might be willing to trade you a mated pair ;) Amber nicurns@... wrote: > > > Hello all. My name is James and I live in UpState South Carolina. I > have been keeping fish for more years than I would like to admit, and > every 5 years or so I mix everything up and change what I am keeping. > Currently we have a 1200-1500 gal pond that I built, and rebuilt, and > of course rebuilt again. I am happy with my final result for now, but > do keep it in the back of my head that Bigger is Better, so who knows??? > We have goldfish up to 13" long with their offspring that have not > been taken by the Heron during the winter. I also have 2 medium size > butterfly Koi and over abundance of plants. > Indoors, we have a 58gal FW tank with a 30gal sum-filter (making > between 80 and 90 gal's give or take),and 2 external filters as well > housing 2 large Angels, 2 cory's, and a pleco. This tank was a Reef > tank for many years, but I am over all that work!!!!!! We also have a > smaller tank that have a single LionHead Goldfish that is sooo > friendly that he eats from your hand. He may be going to the pond for > the summer... > I've had all types of fish over the years, but never angel's until > around 8 months ago. I visited our LSF, and they had a tank full of > nickel sized babies that another customer had breed. I actually met > the breeder in the store, and he has Angel's and Discus. I bought 6 of > the babies, and they all did great until 3 months back when something > went wacky and I lost one after another in a span of two weeks. Well > the remaining 2 are now hugh (4-5" diameter). I would like them to > breed or get another one to go in with them, but I don't know if I > have a mixed pair, two males, or two females. Does anyone have any > ideas on how to sex them? > James S. > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 40960	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 6/17/2009
Subject: Re: Why do Algae blooms only occur in my 55 Gallon?

If you can, leave the actinic off, if you cannot do that, remove them, and see how your algae reacts. \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Gail Sent: Wednesday, June 17, 2009 12:03 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Why do Algae blooms only occur in my 55 Gallon? Okay, here is the results when I checked on my lighting fixture; it doesn't have a lot of detail on the bulbs themselves, however it is a Customsealife.com lighting product. Here is what I found: 48" Orbit 4x65W SunPaq w/Lunar Lights/Fan SmartPaq lamps are side-by-side combination blue actinic and daylight all-in-one lamps. Dual lamps contain side-by-side bulbs all-in-one of either blue actinic or daylight. Specifications: (2)dual specturm daylight bulbs, (10,000k and 6,700k) (2)dual spectrum actinic bulbs, (460nm and 420nm) 96w For now, I have been doing PWC and I vaccumed my gravel (again). I am doing this every three days, I have cut back on how much I feed my fish, and I am limiting how long my lights are on throughout the day. Please tell me your thoughts!! Thanks! Gail --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@...> wrote: > > The BIG THREE things for plants (and them unwanted single celled plants = > Algae) is Lighting, CO2 & Nutrients. > > A heavier bioload could certainly be part of the problem as the heavier > bioload would mean more fish poop and pee (ammonia, nitrates, phosphates) > which are the principle feeding NUTRIENTS for plants and algae are single > celled plants. The heavier bioload also means higher carbon and CO2 levels > in the water from the fish breathing and from the detritus decaying and > putting out carbonic acid. The LIGHTING could also be part of the problem. > You have to look at the actual bulbs for any writing on them. The "blue" > tube is likely an actinic light and the "white" tube could be fluorescent or > compact fluorescent or other. Give us all the information/writing off of > the bulbs, usually on one end. This would include wattage, lumens, item > number, etc. > > Here's a two part article about planted tanks, that originally appeared in > TFH Magazine, I think in 2006, and the second part of the article talks more > about algae and will likely answer all/most of your questions. > > PART 1 - http://naturalaquariums.com/plantedtank/0509.html > > PART 2 - http://naturalaquariums.com/plantedtank/0510.html > > Doing more frequent tank maintenance (gravel vacuuming, proper filter > cleaning, PWC's) on the tank with the heavier bioload and algae issues would > be the first thing as this would lower the available nutrients and lower the > CO2 level in the tank. The lighting, we can answer more once we know more. > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right > side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) > > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On > Behalf Of gail > Sent: Monday, June 15, 2009 4:37 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Subject: [AquaticLife] Why do Algae blooms only occur in my 55 Gallon? > > Okay, I have been having algae blooms only occuring in my 55 gallon. > Is it because it is my most populated tank? Or could it be due to that, and > the light fixture on it? I currently have a light on it, that came with it. > I bought it at a yard sale last summer, and the guy just told me that the > lights were benneficial for Coral. It has two lights inside of it, a blue > florescent and a white florescent. And it has a cooling fan on the light > fixture, but that is all that I know about it. > Can anyone here, outline the Typical causes of an algae bloom? >   > Thanks! > Gail > ------------------------------------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the home page. Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com to receive the digest, which includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com for the No E-Mail option where you will still be able to read messages on the group and post replies. Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com to receive individual e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 40961	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 6/18/2009
Subject: Re: Why do Algae blooms only occur in my 55 Gallon?

OK. I Googled this sentence >> 48" Orbit 4x65W SunPaq w/Lunar Lights/Fan SmartPaq lamps are side-by-side combination blue actinic and daylight all-in-one lamps << and found the following hit which had all of the words. http://www.aquariumguys.com/48orbitsunpaq.html It seems the Actinic bulbs are separate from the SunPaq bulbs and there are independent switches for each lighting component so you could turn off the Actinics completely and only use the SunPaq bulbs which are a Daylight type lighting. With just the two 65W Daylight bulbs, you are still looking at 130 total watts on a 55G tank and that is a LOT of lighting for a low-tech tank. What I mean by low-tech is I do not believe you have CO2 injection, it's not heavily planted with hard to grow plants, etc. With a low-tech tank, with easy to grow plants (you don't even say if you have any live plants but if you do, let us know what kind) and no CO2 injection, you should be able to light the tank with 1 watt per gallon or at most 1.5 watts per gallon of normal fluorescent lighting. I only have 80W of normal daylight fluorescent tubes on my 65G and my easy to grow plants grow like weeds.. which is fortunate since the goldfish try to eat as much of them as possible. :-P I believe the SunPaq bulbs are actually Compact Fluorescent Bulbs which actually put out up to 2X to 3X more lumens than a regular fluorescent bulb so even with 130W of compact fluorescent lighting, you have a LOT of lighting on that tank. If you can make it work with only ONE of the 48" 65W Daylight SunPaq bulbs that would probably be PLENTY of lighting for you on a 55G low-tech tank. Then you would have the other bulb to use if/when the first one burns out. You might be able to sell/trade the actinics for daylight bulbs on Craigslist or eBay or start posting in lots of forums. If you can't get it down to only using one of the 65W SunPaq bulbs, maybe you could use lighting diffuser to lessen the lighting impact. How long were you leaving the lights on each day and how low have you reduced it? As I've stated before, a planted tank needs a balance of the "Trilogy" of Lighting, CO2 and Nutrients. If any of them get too far out of balance, algae will usually result. In your case, you have way too much lighting so unless you had a heavily planted tank with CO2 injection and fertilizers in order to keep all the plants growing like crazy, the tank would go out of balance. If you have few or no plants, then you simply DO NOT need that much lighting. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Gail Sent: Wednesday, June 17, 2009 11:03 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Why do Algae blooms only occur in my 55 Gallon? Okay, here is the results when I checked on my lighting fixture; it doesn't have a lot of detail on the bulbs themselves, however it is a Customsealife.com lighting product. Here is what I found: 48" Orbit 4x65W SunPaq w/Lunar Lights/Fan SmartPaq lamps are side-by-side combination blue actinic and daylight all-in-one lamps. Dual lamps contain side-by-side bulbs all-in-one of either blue actinic or daylight. Specifications: (2)dual specturm daylight bulbs, (10,000k and 6,700k) (2)dual spectrum actinic bulbs, (460nm and 420nm) 96w For now, I have been doing PWC and I vaccumed my gravel (again). I am doing this every three days, I have cut back on how much I feed my fish, and I am limiting how long my lights are on throughout the day. Please tell me your thoughts!! Thanks! Gail --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@...> wrote: > > The BIG THREE things for plants (and them unwanted single celled > plants = > Algae) is Lighting, CO2 & Nutrients. > > A heavier bioload could certainly be part of the problem as the > heavier bioload would mean more fish poop and pee (ammonia, nitrates, > phosphates) which are the principle feeding NUTRIENTS for plants and > algae are single celled plants. The heavier bioload also means higher > carbon and CO2 levels in the water from the fish breathing and from > the detritus decaying and putting out carbonic acid. The LIGHTING could also be part of the problem. > You have to look at the actual bulbs for any writing on them. The "blue" > tube is likely an actinic light and the "white" tube could be > fluorescent or compact fluorescent or other. Give us all the > information/writing off of the bulbs, usually on one end. This would > include wattage, lumens, item number, etc. > > Here's a two part article about planted tanks, that originally > appeared in TFH Magazine, I think in 2006, and the second part of the > article talks more about algae and will likely answer all/most of your questions. > > PART 1 - http://naturalaquariums.com/plantedtank/0509.html > > PART 2 - http://naturalaquariums.com/plantedtank/0510.html > > Doing more frequent tank maintenance (gravel vacuuming, proper filter > cleaning, PWC's) on the tank with the heavier bioload and algae issues > would be the first thing as this would lower the available nutrients > and lower the > CO2 level in the tank. The lighting, we can answer more once we know more. > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles > referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically > under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) > > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] > On Behalf Of gail > Sent: Monday, June 15, 2009 4:37 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Subject: [AquaticLife] Why do Algae blooms only occur in my 55 Gallon? > > Okay, I have been having algae blooms only occuring in my 55 gallon. > Is it because it is my most populated tank? Or could it be due to > that, and the light fixture on it? I currently have a light on it, that came with it. > I bought it at a yard sale last summer, and the guy just told me that > the lights were benneficial for Coral. It has two lights inside of it, > a blue florescent and a white florescent. And it has a cooling fan on > the light fixture, but that is all that I know about it. > Can anyone here, outline the Typical causes of an algae bloom? >   > Thanks! > Gail

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 40962	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 6/18/2009
Subject: Re: Why do Algae blooms only occur in my 55 Gallon?

Oh yeah... I forgot to add. Lots of floating plants would also help. Plants like Anacharis, Hornwort, Guppy Grass, etc.. They would block some of the light from the rest of the tank and floating plants are usually fast growing and easy to grow plants so they would get plenty of light from floating up top close to the lights and would also suck up nutrients from the water and also get added CO2 from the air above the water line. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Amber Berglund Sent: Wednesday, June 17, 2009 10:08 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: Why do Algae blooms only occur in my 55 Gallon? You have very close to the same light fixture that I have on my 55 gallon tank, I also get a lot of algae issues. I think it's a very high output of light and if you don't have enough plants in the tank to keep up with all of that light then the algae is going to grow instead. I would suggest getting a lot of easy to grow plants that like high to medium light. If you don't want to plant them in the gravel you can put them in terra cotta pots like I do, with soil under the gravel. I have learned from past mistakes to be careful how deep I bury the roots though, so make sure to not bury your plants too deep if you try this method. If the plants start to "melt away" then they might be burried too deeply. Also crypts like to melt away when you add them to your tank but they will regrow soon after, so don't be shocked if you get a crypt of some type and it melts soon after adding it to your tank. If you have fish that uproot plants you can put rocks around the plant on top of the gravel and that will make it harder for the fish to dig up the plants. If you don't keep live plants then I would recommend hardly turning your lights on at all during the day as any light is going to promote algae growth in your overstocked tank. Amber Gail wrote: > > > Okay, here is the results when I checked on my lighting fixture; it > doesn't have a lot of detail on the bulbs themselves, however it is a > Customsealife.com lighting product. Here is what I found: > 48" Orbit 4x65W SunPaq w/Lunar Lights/Fan SmartPaq lamps are > side-by-side combination blue actinic and daylight all-in-one lamps. > Dual lamps contain side-by-side bulbs all-in-one of either blue > actinic or daylight. > > Specifications: > (2)dual specturm daylight bulbs, (10,000k and 6,700k) (2)dual spectrum > actinic bulbs, (460nm and 420nm) 96w > > For now, I have been doing PWC and I vaccumed my gravel (again). I am > doing this every three days, I have cut back on how much I feed my > fish, and I am limiting how long my lights are on throughout the day. > > Please tell me your thoughts!! > > Thanks! > Gail > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>, "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" > <GoldLenny@...> wrote: > > > > The BIG THREE things for plants (and them unwanted single celled > plants = > > Algae) is Lighting, CO2 & Nutrients. > > > > A heavier bioload could certainly be part of the problem as the > > heavier bioload would mean more fish poop and pee (ammonia, > > nitrates, > phosphates) > > which are the principle feeding NUTRIENTS for plants and algae are > single > > celled plants. The heavier bioload also means higher carbon and CO2 > levels > > in the water from the fish breathing and from the detritus decaying > > and putting out carbonic acid. The LIGHTING could also be part of > > the > problem. > > You have to look at the actual bulbs for any writing on them. The "blue" > > tube is likely an actinic light and the "white" tube could be > fluorescent or > > compact fluorescent or other. Give us all the information/writing > > off of the bulbs, usually on one end. This would include wattage, > > lumens, item number, etc. > > > > Here's a two part article about planted tanks, that originally > appeared in > > TFH Magazine, I think in 2006, and the second part of the article > talks more > > about algae and will likely answer all/most of your questions. > > > > PART 1 - http://naturalaquariums.com/plantedtank/0509.html > <http://naturalaquariums.com/plantedtank/0509.html> > > > > PART 2 - http://naturalaquariums.com/plantedtank/0510.html > <http://naturalaquariums.com/plantedtank/0510.html> > > > > Doing more frequent tank maintenance (gravel vacuuming, proper > > filter cleaning, PWC's) on the tank with the heavier bioload and > > algae > issues would > > be the first thing as this would lower the available nutrients and > lower the > > CO2 level in the tank. The lighting, we can answer more once we know > more. > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the > > right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by > > Year, > Month) > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On > > Behalf Of gail > > Sent: Monday, June 15, 2009 4:37 PM > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > Subject: [AquaticLife] Why do Algae blooms only occur in my 55 Gallon? > > > > Okay, I have been having algae blooms only occuring in my 55 gallon. > > Is it because it is my most populated tank? Or could it be due to > that, and > > the light fixture on it? I currently have a light on it, that came > with it. > > I bought it at a yard sale last summer, and the guy just told me > that the > > lights were benneficial for Coral. It has two lights inside of it, a > blue > > florescent and a white florescent. And it has a cooling fan on the > > light fixture, but that is all that I know about it. > > Can anyone here, outline the Typical causes of an algae bloom? > > > > Thanks! > > Gail

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 40963	From: ironsidem	Date: 6/18/2009
Subject: sick orange betta, getting better?

Please see album "Sick Orange Betta". I put some pictures of how he has been doing. Thank-you to those that were wondering and asked how he is. 5 days ago he had 1/2ml of clear yellow fluid aspirated, then axtra dose of antibiotics to his water. Right after, he looked like maybe he could've had another 1/2ml taken. But, I'm hoping his body might be able to do the rest? He stays on the bottom, typical betta style, until we come close, then he swims around, up, looking for food. He eats his flakes, or up to his mormal 2 crushed pellets. Water changes are every other day. he still looks a bit bloated, but at least we can't shine a light through him anymore! Does anyone think he's saved? Any thoughts? Thanks, Michelle

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 40964	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 6/18/2009
Subject: Re: sick orange betta, getting better?

Wow.. I see you decided to do the aspiration procedure yourself. I hope them articles and links I gave you helped. I think it's just a wait and see and you may have to do the aspiration procedure on a regular basis in the future if the cyst refills with fluids. He is still a little bloated but it could just be that things have to move back into place and his skin has to tighten back up again which would also help move things back into place. He definitely HAS to be more comfortable than he was. If you have to aspirate again, just do NOT get too aggressive with the aspiration to where you push the needle in too far. Just push it in far enough to get fluid flowing into the syringe and then draw out as much as reasonable. Did you put him under with the clove oil anesthesia or do the aspiration without anesthesia? Did you do it all yourself or get help from a nurse neighbor or phlebotomist phriend? (Yes, I spelled phriend like that on purpose to go with phlebotomist. ;-)) I don't know about anyone else but I'M PROUD OF YOU FOR TAKING THIS BOLD STEP AT SAVING YOUR LITTLE DUDE!!! He's a lucky fish. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of ironsidem Sent: Wednesday, June 17, 2009 11:01 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] sick orange betta, getting better? Please see album "Sick Orange Betta". I put some pictures of how he has been doing. Thank-you to those that were wondering and asked how he is. 5 days ago he had 1/2ml of clear yellow fluid aspirated, then axtra dose of antibiotics to his water. Right after, he looked like maybe he could've had another 1/2ml taken. But, I'm hoping his body might be able to do the rest? He stays on the bottom, typical betta style, until we come close, then he swims around, up, looking for food. He eats his flakes, or up to his mormal 2 crushed pellets. Water changes are every other day. he still looks a bit bloated, but at least we can't shine a light through him anymore! Does anyone think he's saved? Any thoughts? Thanks, Michelle

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 40965	From: ladyjadewindrunner	Date: 6/18/2009
Subject: Hello!!

I thought I would introduce myself =) My name is Jade, I am 22, and live in Northwest Indiana. I have been a proud owner of aquariums for over ten years, and specialize in raising guppies. At current, I have a 20 gallon aquarium with about 15 guppies, a dwarf lily(not sure what species as it is much lighter than the nymphaea rubra), several bunches of Java Fern, a nymphaea rubra, and a Tiger Lotus(that is still, currently, a leafless bulb.) In my 10 years I have successfully raised and sold well over two thousand guppies, from a standard fancy guppy to king cobras and half-blacks. I just recently started incorporating live plants into my aquarium upon seeing a friend's well-planted tank that I absolutely fell in love with. As late, the numbers of my fish have, sadly, begun to dwindle due to Whirling Disease (which, for those unfamiliar, is a parasite that attacks their brain and to my knowledge cannot be treated except for culling those infected with it). Should I lose my guppies totally, I plan on, after proper treatment of the tank to ensure no parasites remain, though I doubt they would as they tend to die off when no fish are present, with Angelfish. So far, though, most of the guppies that remain are strong, healthy, and breeding! Should I set my heart on angelfish I intend on taking the guppies to a local store that accepts fish for in-store credit to get my angels that way. I do hate to introduce myself with a question, but as I am new to plants, I do have one. How long should it take for a Tiger Lotus bulb to begin putting out roots and leaves? the nymphaea rubra put out leaves the very day I introduced the bulb to my aquarium, however I am aware that a red tiger lotus has a longer growth rate than the rubra. Well, that being said, I look forward to talking with you all! Jade

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 40966	From: Raymond Wetzel	Date: 6/18/2009
Subject: Re: Sexing AngelFish?

Just a side note: Egg-laying fishes may not be as obvious as to their sex when compared to Livebearers, but many (including Angels) can be sexed. Ray --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, Amber Berglund <amber@...> wrote: > > Angel's are not able to be sexed unless they are actively laying eggs > (spawning). Their sexual organs are inside obviously ;) LOL. > I have a mated pair of angel's and I just happened to get lucky that > way, I started out with 2 and one died, so I replaced it with another > and that 2nd one turned out to be female and my first was a male. > Most people get groups of angel's and wait until they pair up to find a > pair to mate. > Are your angel's showing any sign of mating behavior at all? When mine > get ready to lay eggs they will chase all the other fish to the other > side of the tank and start cleaning a spot to lay their eggs on (while > the other one guards for intruders the female will start to lay the > eggs, then they take turns guarding while the male fertilizes the eggs). > If you haven't seen too much aggression towards your other fish and the > other 2 teaming up together and chasing the other fish away then I'd > have to guess you have 2 of the same sex. > It may be hard to introduce smaller angel's at this point in time as the > bigger ones will pick on the smaller ones. > I suppose you could slowly try introducing some new angel's with a tank > divider and see how aggressive the big ones are with the divider in. If > they are really aggressive and attack at the divider then you may have > to wait until the smaller angel's get closer in size to the big ones, > you can speed up that process (a little) by frequent water changes and > feeding the young Angel's really well, just make sure to keep the water > changes going (don't go overboard on them, once a day should me more > than plenty if you're doing 25% changes), this helps remove the hormones > from the water so the fish will grow a little faster. Unless you can > talk to the breeder some how and see if they might be willing to trade > you a mated pair ;) > > Amber > > > nicurns@... wrote: > > > > > > Hello all. My name is James and I live in UpState South Carolina. I > > have been keeping fish for more years than I would like to admit, and > > every 5 years or so I mix everything up and change what I am keeping. > > Currently we have a 1200-1500 gal pond that I built, and rebuilt, and > > of course rebuilt again. I am happy with my final result for now, but > > do keep it in the back of my head that Bigger is Better, so who knows??? > > We have goldfish up to 13" long with their offspring that have not > > been taken by the Heron during the winter. I also have 2 medium size > > butterfly Koi and over abundance of plants. > > Indoors, we have a 58gal FW tank with a 30gal sum-filter (making > > between 80 and 90 gal's give or take),and 2 external filters as well > > housing 2 large Angels, 2 cory's, and a pleco. This tank was a Reef > > tank for many years, but I am over all that work!!!!!! We also have a > > smaller tank that have a single LionHead Goldfish that is sooo > > friendly that he eats from your hand. He may be going to the pond for > > the summer... > > I've had all types of fish over the years, but never angel's until > > around 8 months ago. I visited our LSF, and they had a tank full of > > nickel sized babies that another customer had breed. I actually met > > the breeder in the store, and he has Angel's and Discus. I bought 6 of > > the babies, and they all did great until 3 months back when something > > went wacky and I lost one after another in a span of two weeks. Well > > the remaining 2 are now hugh (4-5" diameter). I would like them to > > breed or get another one to go in with them, but I don't know if I > > have a mixed pair, two males, or two females. Does anyone have any > > ideas on how to sex them? > > James S. > > > > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 40967	From: pam andress	Date: 6/18/2009
Subject: Re: Hello!!

Hi Jade, Not sure how long the plant will take to put out leaves. What town are you in. I live in North Judson, IN and I know someone that has angels cheap. Pam To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com From: ladyjadewindrunner@... Date: Thu, 18 Jun 2009 10:42:12 +0000 Subject: [AquaticLife] Hello!! I thought I would introduce myself =) My name is Jade, I am 22, and live in Northwest Indiana. I have been a proud owner of aquariums for over ten years, and specialize in raising guppies. At current, I have a 20 gallon aquarium with about 15 guppies, a dwarf lily(not sure what species as it is much lighter than the nymphaea rubra), several bunches of Java Fern, a nymphaea rubra, and a Tiger Lotus(that is still, currently, a leafless bulb.) In my 10 years I have successfully raised and sold well over two thousand guppies, from a standard fancy guppy to king cobras and half-blacks. I just recently started incorporating live plants into my aquarium upon seeing a friend's well-planted tank that I absolutely fell in love with. As late, the numbers of my fish have, sadly, begun to dwindle due to Whirling Disease (which, for those unfamiliar, is a parasite that attacks their brain and to my knowledge cannot be treated except for culling those infected with it). Should I lose my guppies totally, I plan on, after proper treatment of the tank to ensure no parasites remain, though I doubt they would as they tend to die off when no fish are present, with Angelfish. So far, though, most of the guppies that remain are strong, healthy, and breeding! Should I set my heart on angelfish I intend on taking the guppies to a local store that accepts fish for in-store credit to get my angels that way. I do hate to introduce myself with a question, but as I am new to plants, I do have one. How long should it take for a Tiger Lotus bulb to begin putting out roots and leaves? the nymphaea rubra put out leaves the very day I introduced the bulb to my aquarium, however I am aware that a red tiger lotus has a longer growth rate than the rubra. Well, that being said, I look forward to talking with you all! Jade [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 40968	From: jan1213@aol.com	Date: 6/18/2009
Subject: starting up a tank

I plan to start up 2 tanks, a 10 gal and a 20 gal. I have ordered Dr. Tim's freshwater bacteria. I would like to do a fishless cycle....I understand that I need ammonia...Can anyone guide me through this. I plan to put in flame tetras and albino tetras and 2 Cory all in the 20 gal I want the 10 gal to be a sink tank...and how many tetras would be safe. Thanks **************Download the AOL Classifieds Toolbar for local deals at your fingertips. (http://toolbar.aol.com/aolclassifieds/download.html?ncid=emlcntusdown00000004) [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 40969	From: bill 1433	Date: 6/18/2009
Subject: Re: starting up a tank

With Dr. Tim's, you don't need anything else. Just follow the insturctions on the bottle, you can't do wrong. With the fishless cycle you have to wait and test.   bill From: jan1213@... <jan1213@...> Subject: [AquaticLife] starting up a tank To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Date: Thursday, June 18, 2009, 10:42 AM I plan to start up 2 tanks, a 10 gal and a 20 gal. I have ordered  Dr. Tim's freshwater bacteria. I would like to do a fishless cycle....I  understand that I need ammonia...Can anyone guide me through this. I plan to put  in flame tetras and albino tetras and 2 Cory  all in the 20 gal  I  want the 10 gal to be a sink tank...and how many tetras would be safe.   Thanks **************Download the AOL Classifieds Toolbar for local deals at your fingertips. (http://toolbar.aol.com/aolclassifieds/download.html?ncid=emlcntusdown00000004) [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] ------------------------------------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the home page.  Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com to receive the digest, which includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com for the No E-Mail option where you will still be able to read messages on the group and post replies. Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com to receive individual e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 40970	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 6/18/2009
Subject: Re: Why do Algae blooms only occur in my 55 Gallon?

That's why my 55 gallon is covered with duckweed on top, to help diffuse the lighting since the CFL's put out so much light ;) Beware of duckweed though, sometimes it grows so fast you have to take a bunch out just to keep up with the new growth ;) Amber Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > > > Oh yeah... I forgot to add. Lots of floating plants would also help. > Plants like Anacharis, Hornwort, Guppy Grass, etc.. They would block some > of the light from the rest of the tank and floating plants are usually > fast > growing and easy to grow plants so they would get plenty of light from > floating up top close to the lights and would also suck up nutrients from > the water and also get added CO2 from the air above the water line. > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right > side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On > Behalf Of Amber Berglund > Sent: Wednesday, June 17, 2009 10:08 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: Why do Algae blooms only occur in my 55 > Gallon? > > You have very close to the same light fixture that I have on my 55 gallon > tank, I also get a lot of algae issues. I think it's a very high output of > light and if you don't have enough plants in the tank to keep up with > all of > that light then the algae is going to grow instead. I would suggest > getting > a lot of easy to grow plants that like high to medium light. If you don't > want to plant them in the gravel you can put them in terra cotta pots > like I > do, with soil under the gravel. I have learned from past mistakes to be > careful how deep I bury the roots though, so make sure to not bury your > plants too deep if you try this method. If the plants start to "melt away" > then they might be burried too deeply. Also crypts like to melt away when > you add them to your tank but they will regrow soon after, so don't be > shocked if you get a crypt of some type and it melts soon after adding > it to > your tank. > If you have fish that uproot plants you can put rocks around the plant on > top of the gravel and that will make it harder for the fish to dig up the > plants. If you don't keep live plants then I would recommend hardly > turning > your lights on at all during the day as any light is going to promote > algae > growth in your overstocked tank. > > Amber > > Gail wrote: > > > > > > Okay, here is the results when I checked on my lighting fixture; it > > doesn't have a lot of detail on the bulbs themselves, however it is a > > Customsealife.com lighting product. Here is what I found: > > 48" Orbit 4x65W SunPaq w/Lunar Lights/Fan SmartPaq lamps are > > side-by-side combination blue actinic and daylight all-in-one lamps. > > Dual lamps contain side-by-side bulbs all-in-one of either blue > > actinic or daylight. > > > > Specifications: > > (2)dual specturm daylight bulbs, (10,000k and 6,700k) (2)dual spectrum > > actinic bulbs, (460nm and 420nm) 96w > > > > For now, I have been doing PWC and I vaccumed my gravel (again). I am > > doing this every three days, I have cut back on how much I feed my > > fish, and I am limiting how long my lights are on throughout the day. > > > > Please tell me your thoughts!! > > > > Thanks! > > Gail > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>, "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" > > <GoldLenny@...> wrote: > > > > > > The BIG THREE things for plants (and them unwanted single celled > > plants = > > > Algae) is Lighting, CO2 & Nutrients. > > > > > > A heavier bioload could certainly be part of the problem as the > > > heavier bioload would mean more fish poop and pee (ammonia, > > > nitrates, > > phosphates) > > > which are the principle feeding NUTRIENTS for plants and algae are > > single > > > celled plants. The heavier bioload also means higher carbon and CO2 > > levels > > > in the water from the fish breathing and from the detritus decaying > > > and putting out carbonic acid. The LIGHTING could also be part of > > > the > > problem. > > > You have to look at the actual bulbs for any writing on them. The > "blue" > > > tube is likely an actinic light and the "white" tube could be > > fluorescent or > > > compact fluorescent or other. Give us all the information/writing > > > off of the bulbs, usually on one end. This would include wattage, > > > lumens, item number, etc. > > > > > > Here's a two part article about planted tanks, that originally > > appeared in > > > TFH Magazine, I think in 2006, and the second part of the article > > talks more > > > about algae and will likely answer all/most of your questions. > > > > > > PART 1 - http://naturalaquariums.com/plantedtank/0509.html > <http://naturalaquariums.com/plantedtank/0509.html> > > <http://naturalaquariums.com/plantedtank/0509.html > <http://naturalaquariums.com/plantedtank/0509.html>> > > > > > > PART 2 - http://naturalaquariums.com/plantedtank/0510.html > <http://naturalaquariums.com/plantedtank/0510.html> > > <http://naturalaquariums.com/plantedtank/0510.html > <http://naturalaquariums.com/plantedtank/0510.html>> > > > > > > Doing more frequent tank maintenance (gravel vacuuming, proper > > > filter cleaning, PWC's) on the tank with the heavier bioload and > > > algae > > issues would > > > be the first thing as this would lower the available nutrients and > > lower the > > > CO2 level in the tank. The lighting, we can answer more once we know > > more. > > > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>> > > > (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the > > > right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by > > > Year, > > Month) > > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On > > > Behalf Of gail > > > Sent: Monday, June 15, 2009 4:37 PM > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > Subject: [AquaticLife] Why do Algae blooms only occur in my 55 Gallon? > > > > > > Okay, I have been having algae blooms only occuring in my 55 gallon. > > > Is it because it is my most populated tank? Or could it be due to > > that, and > > > the light fixture on it? I currently have a light on it, that came > > with it. > > > I bought it at a yard sale last summer, and the guy just told me > > that the > > > lights were benneficial for Coral. It has two lights inside of it, a > > blue > > > florescent and a white florescent. And it has a cooling fan on the > > > light fixture, but that is all that I know about it. > > > Can anyone here, outline the Typical causes of an algae bloom? > > > > > > Thanks! > > > Gail > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 40971	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 6/18/2009
Subject: Re: starting up a tank

Yes as Bill says you don't need to do both a fishless cycle and use Dr Tim's one and only. You can use Dr Tim's One and only by the instructions on the bottle, which say something like you dose the tank with the product and immediately add fish right away. Amber bill 1433 wrote: > > > > With Dr. Tim's, you don't need anything else. > Just follow the insturctions on the bottle, you can't do wrong. > With the fishless cycle you have to wait and test. > > bill > > From: jan1213@... <mailto:jan1213%40aol.com> <jan1213@... > <mailto:jan1213%40aol.com>> > Subject: [AquaticLife] starting up a tank > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Date: Thursday, June 18, 2009, 10:42 AM > > I plan to start up 2 tanks, a 10 gal and a 20 gal. I have ordered Dr. > Tim's freshwater bacteria. I would like to do a fishless cycle....I > understand > that I need ammonia...Can anyone guide me through this. I plan to put in > flame tetras and albino tetras and 2 Cory all in the 20 gal I want > the 10 > gal to be a sink tank...and how many tetras would be safe. Thanks > **************Download the AOL Classifieds Toolbar for local deals at > your > fingertips. > (http://toolbar.aol.com/aolclassifieds/download.html?ncid=emlcntusdown00000004 > <http://toolbar.aol.com/aolclassifieds/download.html?ncid=emlcntusdown00000004>) > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > ------------------------------------ > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. > ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> > PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT > important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message > MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- > <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. > > If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of unsubscribing, > you can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My > Membership" on the home page. > > Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:aquaticlife-digest%40yahoogroups.com> to receive the digest, > which includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email > > Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:aquaticlife-nomail%40yahoogroups.com> for the No E-Mail option > where you will still be able to read messages on the group and post > replies. > > Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:aquaticlife-normal%40yahoogroups.com> to receive individual > e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 40972	From: Diana Brooks	Date: 6/18/2009
Subject: Re: Found on the Web: Live Rock Stolen and More Aquariums

> > If you do not have enough aquariums yet, and who does, here are 15 to > chose from for your next one. > http://www.toxel.com/inspiration/2009/06/11/15-unusual-and-creative-aqua > riums/ > TinyURL: http://tinyurl.com/n53yjf > > \\Steve// > That "infinity" aquarium reminded me of something I saw once while surfing the web as an insomniac - and I have never seen again. They had some kind of pump in them that I assume was made for a fountain, and they were cleverly arranged into artistic fountain type set ups where the fish lived in the pool at the bottom, which was glass or clear. I think they were also called infinity or endless pool or some such. Had anyone else ever seen such a set up? It was fascinating to the sleep deprived mind, but apparently not enough to save on favorites. If this rings a bell and you have a link, please post it!

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 40973	From: ironsidem	Date: 6/18/2009
Subject: Re: sick orange betta, getting better?

Yes, I did do it. My husband said he would help, but didn't really know what to do, just watched, so did my older daughter. My son (only 5) was busy, and I took the opp to do it with him not there. I got the clove oil. It was first with the intention of euthanasia. But I figured to try it myself. I'm a nurse, and have never done that before, but I've watched pateints with ascites have their bellies aspirated of fluid. There is no need to go deep with a needle. He does have a large vessel on his right side. So with gloves on, I went to the other side. I thought I would know right away if I'd done more harm than good, and had the clove oil mixture near. I stopped aspirating at 1/2ml, I was surprised that much even came out. When all was done, he looked deflated and wrinkled, no bleeding. He pooped too. I put him back into the water and helped him to stay upright. His gills moved so slow i thought i did just euthanize. But they started moving more frequent, and he started to swim (almost drunkenly). From aneasthesia to swimming normal again was 10 minutes. He looks more comfortable, and I think his digestive system is better without the pressure of the fluid. Anyone have any advice on the plants that were in the tank with him? How to disinfect live plants of disease without killing them? or throwing them away? Thanks, Michelle --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@...> wrote: > > Wow.. I see you decided to do the aspiration procedure yourself. I hope > them articles and links I gave you helped. > > I think it's just a wait and see and you may have to do the aspiration > procedure on a regular basis in the future if the cyst refills with fluids. > He is still a little bloated but it could just be that things have to move > back into place and his skin has to tighten back up again which would also > help move things back into place. He definitely HAS to be more comfortable > than he was. > > If you have to aspirate again, just do NOT get too aggressive with the > aspiration to where you push the needle in too far. Just push it in far > enough to get fluid flowing into the syringe and then draw out as much as > reasonable. > > Did you put him under with the clove oil anesthesia or do the aspiration > without anesthesia? Did you do it all yourself or get help from a nurse > neighbor or phlebotomist phriend? (Yes, I spelled phriend like that on > purpose to go with phlebotomist. ;-)) > > I don't know about anyone else but I'M PROUD OF YOU FOR TAKING THIS BOLD > STEP AT SAVING YOUR LITTLE DUDE!!! He's a lucky fish. > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right > side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) > > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On > Behalf Of ironsidem > Sent: Wednesday, June 17, 2009 11:01 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Subject: [AquaticLife] sick orange betta, getting better? > > Please see album "Sick Orange Betta". I put some pictures of how he has been > doing. > > Thank-you to those that were wondering and asked how he is. > > 5 days ago he had 1/2ml of clear yellow fluid aspirated, then axtra dose of > antibiotics to his water. Right after, he looked like maybe he could've had > another 1/2ml taken. But, I'm hoping his body might be able to do the rest? > > He stays on the bottom, typical betta style, until we come close, then he > swims around, up, looking for food. He eats his flakes, or up to his mormal > 2 crushed pellets. Water changes are every other day. > > he still looks a bit bloated, but at least we can't shine a light through > him anymore! > > Does anyone think he's saved? Any thoughts? > > Thanks, > Michelle >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 40974	From: Gail	Date: 6/18/2009
Subject: Re: Why do Algae blooms only occur in my 55 Gallon?

I think you are right, I think I do have my tank a bit over-lit. I have recently refrained from the Actinic (sp) lights. Typically I have both lights on during the day, then just the blue (actinics) on at night (as a huge night light lol). I really like the suggestion of floating plants. I may have to try that. I don't think I can get away with a planted tank - my Blood Parrot would ruin that right away. He uproots all of my plastic plants constantly. I am also a bit afraid to get into the whole planted tank "thing" :-) I often have a hard enough time keeping up with my tanks as is. I really might consider the floating plants. I don't have my tank C02 infused, or whatever. I just have a power head for some added O2 and some circulation. Is there any preferences you all might have when it comes to floating plants? I would love to hear more about it. thanks, gail --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@...> wrote: > > Oh yeah... I forgot to add. Lots of floating plants would also help. > Plants like Anacharis, Hornwort, Guppy Grass, etc.. They would block some > of the light from the rest of the tank and floating plants are usually fast > growing and easy to grow plants so they would get plenty of light from > floating up top close to the lights and would also suck up nutrients from > the water and also get added CO2 from the air above the water line. > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right > side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) > > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On > Behalf Of Amber Berglund > Sent: Wednesday, June 17, 2009 10:08 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: Why do Algae blooms only occur in my 55 > Gallon? > > You have very close to the same light fixture that I have on my 55 gallon > tank, I also get a lot of algae issues. I think it's a very high output of > light and if you don't have enough plants in the tank to keep up with all of > that light then the algae is going to grow instead. I would suggest getting > a lot of easy to grow plants that like high to medium light. If you don't > want to plant them in the gravel you can put them in terra cotta pots like I > do, with soil under the gravel. I have learned from past mistakes to be > careful how deep I bury the roots though, so make sure to not bury your > plants too deep if you try this method. If the plants start to "melt away" > then they might be burried too deeply. Also crypts like to melt away when > you add them to your tank but they will regrow soon after, so don't be > shocked if you get a crypt of some type and it melts soon after adding it to > your tank. > If you have fish that uproot plants you can put rocks around the plant on > top of the gravel and that will make it harder for the fish to dig up the > plants. If you don't keep live plants then I would recommend hardly turning > your lights on at all during the day as any light is going to promote algae > growth in your overstocked tank. > > Amber > > Gail wrote: > > > > > > Okay, here is the results when I checked on my lighting fixture; it > > doesn't have a lot of detail on the bulbs themselves, however it is a > > Customsealife.com lighting product. Here is what I found: > > 48" Orbit 4x65W SunPaq w/Lunar Lights/Fan SmartPaq lamps are > > side-by-side combination blue actinic and daylight all-in-one lamps. > > Dual lamps contain side-by-side bulbs all-in-one of either blue > > actinic or daylight. > > > > Specifications: > > (2)dual specturm daylight bulbs, (10,000k and 6,700k) (2)dual spectrum > > actinic bulbs, (460nm and 420nm) 96w > > > > For now, I have been doing PWC and I vaccumed my gravel (again). I am > > doing this every three days, I have cut back on how much I feed my > > fish, and I am limiting how long my lights are on throughout the day. > > > > Please tell me your thoughts!! > > > > Thanks! > > Gail > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>, "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" > > <GoldLenny@> wrote: > > > > > > The BIG THREE things for plants (and them unwanted single celled > > plants = > > > Algae) is Lighting, CO2 & Nutrients. > > > > > > A heavier bioload could certainly be part of the problem as the > > > heavier bioload would mean more fish poop and pee (ammonia, > > > nitrates, > > phosphates) > > > which are the principle feeding NUTRIENTS for plants and algae are > > single > > > celled plants. The heavier bioload also means higher carbon and CO2 > > levels > > > in the water from the fish breathing and from the detritus decaying > > > and putting out carbonic acid. The LIGHTING could also be part of > > > the > > problem. > > > You have to look at the actual bulbs for any writing on them. The "blue" > > > tube is likely an actinic light and the "white" tube could be > > fluorescent or > > > compact fluorescent or other. Give us all the information/writing > > > off of the bulbs, usually on one end. This would include wattage, > > > lumens, item number, etc. > > > > > > Here's a two part article about planted tanks, that originally > > appeared in > > > TFH Magazine, I think in 2006, and the second part of the article > > talks more > > > about algae and will likely answer all/most of your questions. > > > > > > PART 1 - http://naturalaquariums.com/plantedtank/0509.html > > <http://naturalaquariums.com/plantedtank/0509.html> > > > > > > PART 2 - http://naturalaquariums.com/plantedtank/0510.html > > <http://naturalaquariums.com/plantedtank/0510.html> > > > > > > Doing more frequent tank maintenance (gravel vacuuming, proper > > > filter cleaning, PWC's) on the tank with the heavier bioload and > > > algae > > issues would > > > be the first thing as this would lower the available nutrients and > > lower the > > > CO2 level in the tank. The lighting, we can answer more once we know > > more. > > > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the > > > right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by > > > Year, > > Month) > > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On > > > Behalf Of gail > > > Sent: Monday, June 15, 2009 4:37 PM > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > Subject: [AquaticLife] Why do Algae blooms only occur in my 55 Gallon? > > > > > > Okay, I have been having algae blooms only occuring in my 55 gallon. > > > Is it because it is my most populated tank? Or could it be due to > > that, and > > > the light fixture on it? I currently have a light on it, that came > > with it. > > > I bought it at a yard sale last summer, and the guy just told me > > that the > > > lights were benneficial for Coral. It has two lights inside of it, a > > blue > > > florescent and a white florescent. And it has a cooling fan on the > > > light fixture, but that is all that I know about it. > > > Can anyone here, outline the Typical causes of an algae bloom? > > > > > > Thanks! > > > Gail >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 40975	From: nicurns@bellsouth.net	Date: 6/18/2009
Subject: Re: Sexing AngelFish?

Amber, Thanks for replying. I don't see any aggressive behavior within the tank except between the two angels at times. It almost appears as though they are playing!!!LOL The only other fish in that tank are 2 cory's and a medium sized Pleco. The angels stay to themselves as do the cory's and I rarely see the Pleco except an occasional darting whenever entering the room. Regarding your angels.... Once they began spawning, how often did this re-occur? Do you allow them to care for the babies or do you remove them to a seperate tank? I am planning on getting another larger angel or two, to go into this tank but just having issues finding larger ones in my area. I have purchased marine fish over the web in the past, but have not done so with freshwater species yet. Maybe I'll start looking into this over the next few weeks. Thanks, James S. --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, Amber Berglund <amber@...> wrote: > > Angel's are not able to be sexed unless they are actively laying eggs > (spawning). Their sexual organs are inside obviously ;) LOL. > I have a mated pair of angel's and I just happened to get lucky that > way, I started out with 2 and one died, so I replaced it with another > and that 2nd one turned out to be female and my first was a male. > Most people get groups of angel's and wait until they pair up to find a > pair to mate. > Are your angel's showing any sign of mating behavior at all? When mine > get ready to lay eggs they will chase all the other fish to the other > side of the tank and start cleaning a spot to lay their eggs on (while > the other one guards for intruders the female will start to lay the > eggs, then they take turns guarding while the male fertilizes the eggs). > If you haven't seen too much aggression towards your other fish and the > other 2 teaming up together and chasing the other fish away then I'd > have to guess you have 2 of the same sex. > It may be hard to introduce smaller angel's at this point in time as the > bigger ones will pick on the smaller ones. > I suppose you could slowly try introducing some new angel's with a tank > divider and see how aggressive the big ones are with the divider in. If > they are really aggressive and attack at the divider then you may have > to wait until the smaller angel's get closer in size to the big ones, > you can speed up that process (a little) by frequent water changes and > feeding the young Angel's really well, just make sure to keep the water > changes going (don't go overboard on them, once a day should me more > than plenty if you're doing 25% changes), this helps remove the hormones > from the water so the fish will grow a little faster. Unless you can > talk to the breeder some how and see if they might be willing to trade > you a mated pair ;) > > Amber > > > nicurns@... wrote: > > > > > > Hello all. My name is James and I live in UpState South Carolina. I > > have been keeping fish for more years than I would like to admit, and > > every 5 years or so I mix everything up and change what I am keeping. > > Currently we have a 1200-1500 gal pond that I built, and rebuilt, and > > of course rebuilt again. I am happy with my final result for now, but > > do keep it in the back of my head that Bigger is Better, so who knows??? > > We have goldfish up to 13" long with their offspring that have not > > been taken by the Heron during the winter. I also have 2 medium size > > butterfly Koi and over abundance of plants. > > Indoors, we have a 58gal FW tank with a 30gal sum-filter (making > > between 80 and 90 gal's give or take),and 2 external filters as well > > housing 2 large Angels, 2 cory's, and a pleco. This tank was a Reef > > tank for many years, but I am over all that work!!!!!! We also have a > > smaller tank that have a single LionHead Goldfish that is sooo > > friendly that he eats from your hand. He may be going to the pond for > > the summer... > > I've had all types of fish over the years, but never angel's until > > around 8 months ago. I visited our LSF, and they had a tank full of > > nickel sized babies that another customer had breed. I actually met > > the breeder in the store, and he has Angel's and Discus. I bought 6 of > > the babies, and they all did great until 3 months back when something > > went wacky and I lost one after another in a span of two weeks. Well > > the remaining 2 are now hugh (4-5" diameter). I would like them to > > breed or get another one to go in with them, but I don't know if I > > have a mixed pair, two males, or two females. Does anyone have any > > ideas on how to sex them? > > James S. > > > > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 40976	From: nicurns@bellsouth.net	Date: 6/18/2009
Subject: Re: Hello!!

Nice to meet you Jade and it sounds that you have some really good experience. How many tanks do you keep with all the different varieties of guppies so that they don't inter-breed? Also how do you manage the babies. We keep a small tank in our daughters bathroom used for a "night light", and over the years we have had almost any type of fish in there. We kept livebearers (guppies, mollies, and platties) and seemed to onle have success with the mollies and plats fry. The guppies seemed to never do too well and would live a couple of months the seem to all die off. I have no idea what happens, as this repeated several batches. James S. --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "ladyjadewindrunner" <ladyjadewindrunner@...> wrote: > > I thought I would introduce myself =) My name is Jade, I am 22, and live in Northwest Indiana. I have been a proud owner of aquariums for over ten years, and specialize in raising guppies. At current, I have a 20 gallon aquarium with about 15 guppies, a dwarf lily(not sure what species as it is much lighter than the nymphaea rubra), several bunches of Java Fern, a nymphaea rubra, and a Tiger Lotus(that is still, currently, a leafless bulb.) > > In my 10 years I have successfully raised and sold well over two thousand guppies, from a standard fancy guppy to king cobras and half-blacks. I just recently started incorporating live plants into my aquarium upon seeing a friend's well-planted tank that I absolutely fell in love with. > > As late, the numbers of my fish have, sadly, begun to dwindle due to Whirling Disease (which, for those unfamiliar, is a parasite that attacks their brain and to my knowledge cannot be treated except for culling those infected with it). Should I lose my guppies totally, I plan on, after proper treatment of the tank to ensure no parasites remain, though I doubt they would as they tend to die off when no fish are present, with Angelfish. So far, though, most of the guppies that remain are strong, healthy, and breeding! Should I set my heart on angelfish I intend on taking the guppies to a local store that accepts fish for in-store credit to get my angels that way. > > I do hate to introduce myself with a question, but as I am new to plants, I do have one. How long should it take for a Tiger Lotus bulb to begin putting out roots and leaves? the nymphaea rubra put out leaves the very day I introduced the bulb to my aquarium, however I am aware that a red tiger lotus has a longer growth rate than the rubra. > > Well, that being said, I look forward to talking with you all! > > Jade >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 40977	From: nicurns@bellsouth.net	Date: 6/18/2009
Subject: Re: Why do Algae blooms only occur in my 55 Gallon?

Gail, I agree with Lenny that more information is needed. Also since you got this tank in a yard sell, did you perform a deep cleaning as it appears he may have used the tank for a saltwater tank and these carry many different types of algae that want necessarily survive in fresh water, but....decay and leach out materials into the water colume that support algae. After looking back, you didn't say what you are housing in the tank....Fresh, Salt or Brackish???? This also makes a difference. Having myself kept salt tanks (fish only, as well as coral only), Reef tanks and now converted back to freshwater only I have seen first hand the acclimation periods changing a tank between each without proper cleaning. Lights as well play a big part in the equation as well, so more info is needed. James S. --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@...> wrote: > > The BIG THREE things for plants (and them unwanted single celled plants = > Algae) is Lighting, CO2 & Nutrients. > > A heavier bioload could certainly be part of the problem as the heavier > bioload would mean more fish poop and pee (ammonia, nitrates, phosphates) > which are the principle feeding NUTRIENTS for plants and algae are single > celled plants. The heavier bioload also means higher carbon and CO2 levels > in the water from the fish breathing and from the detritus decaying and > putting out carbonic acid. The LIGHTING could also be part of the problem. > You have to look at the actual bulbs for any writing on them. The "blue" > tube is likely an actinic light and the "white" tube could be fluorescent or > compact fluorescent or other. Give us all the information/writing off of > the bulbs, usually on one end. This would include wattage, lumens, item > number, etc. > > Here's a two part article about planted tanks, that originally appeared in > TFH Magazine, I think in 2006, and the second part of the article talks more > about algae and will likely answer all/most of your questions. > > PART 1 - http://naturalaquariums.com/plantedtank/0509.html > > PART 2 - http://naturalaquariums.com/plantedtank/0510.html > > Doing more frequent tank maintenance (gravel vacuuming, proper filter > cleaning, PWC's) on the tank with the heavier bioload and algae issues would > be the first thing as this would lower the available nutrients and lower the > CO2 level in the tank. The lighting, we can answer more once we know more. > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right > side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) > > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On > Behalf Of gail > Sent: Monday, June 15, 2009 4:37 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Subject: [AquaticLife] Why do Algae blooms only occur in my 55 Gallon? > > Okay, I have been having algae blooms only occuring in my 55 gallon. > Is it because it is my most populated tank? Or could it be due to that, and > the light fixture on it? I currently have a light on it, that came with it. > I bought it at a yard sale last summer, and the guy just told me that the > lights were benneficial for Coral. It has two lights inside of it, a blue > florescent and a white florescent. And it has a cooling fan on the light > fixture, but that is all that I know about it. > Can anyone here, outline the Typical causes of an algae bloom? >   > Thanks! > Gail >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 40978	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 6/18/2009
Subject: Re: starting up a tank

With Dr. Tim's One And Only, you DO NOT need to do a fishless cycle although you could still do it to err on the side of caution to be sure your bottle of One And Only did not get harmed by overheating or freezing. The actual directions for Dr. Tim's One And Only state you should add the proper dosage to a tank and then the next day, add your fish. You can get "plain" ammonia from several sources but one that I know of is Ace Hardware Stores. It's their own private label product and the last time I checked, was around 99 cents for a quart sized bottle. You will not need nearly that much to do fishless cycling, especially when adding Dr. Tim's One And Only first. You can save the rest of the ammonia as long as you seal the bottle tightly and/or use it for household cleaning chores. If you are going to add the Dr. Tim's product first, wait 12-24 hours and then you will want to dose the tank with 3 drops per gallon of the plain ammonia. You should have a Master Test Kit to monitor the fishless cycle so you will be able to test the ammonia, nitrite and nitrate levels to know the cycle is working 100%. If you do not have a master test kit, then you should not try the fishless cycle. I have a couple of detailed articles on "Fishless Cycling" my blog page, "A To Z Of Fish Keeping", http://goldlenny.blogspot.com/2007/02/to-z-of-fish-keeping-how-to-training.h tml. The articles are linked in the first few paragraphs of my article. As far as how many of each fish can go into each tank, we need a little more information. What species of Corydoras and what species of "albino tetras" in the 20G? What species of "tetra" for the 10G "sink tank"? You mention the flame tetras http://fish.mongabay.com/species/Hyphessobrycon_flammeus.html which grow to around 3" so those would do best in the 20G tank but we need to know what species of Corydoras and what species of "albino tetras" you plan on having before we could say how many of each would be a full bioload on the tank. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of jan1213@... Sent: Thursday, June 18, 2009 9:42 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] starting up a tank I plan to start up 2 tanks, a 10 gal and a 20 gal. I have ordered Dr. Tim's freshwater bacteria. I would like to do a fishless cycle....I understand that I need ammonia...Can anyone guide me through this. I plan to put in flame tetras and albino tetras and 2 Cory all in the 20 gal I want the 10 gal to be a sink tank...and how many tetras would be safe. Thanks

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 40979	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 6/18/2009
Subject: Re: starting up a tank

Well, if you do prepare the tank with Dr. Tim's One And Only, you could also make sure that it wasn't a damaged bottle by dosing with ammonia (3 drops per gallon) and then testing the tank to see if the ammonia cycled through to nitrate. If it did, then you "know" that the Dr. Tim's product worked! I'm sure 99.9% of the time, it works as advertised but there have been instances where a bottle was exposed to freezing or overheated temperatures that damaged the live nitrifying bacteria. Testing it with a few drops of a 99 cent bottle of plain ammonia is not necessarily a bad thing if one wants to err on the side of caution. I would probably trust the bottle of Dr. Tim's but then I have my own ammonia and test kit already so it wouldn't be any added work for me to dose the tank to be certain. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of bill 1433 Sent: Thursday, June 18, 2009 9:50 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] starting up a tank With Dr. Tim's, you don't need anything else. Just follow the insturctions on the bottle, you can't do wrong. With the fishless cycle you have to wait and test.   bill From: jan1213@... <jan1213@...> Subject: [AquaticLife] starting up a tank To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Date: Thursday, June 18, 2009, 10:42 AM I plan to start up 2 tanks, a 10 gal and a 20 gal. I have ordered  Dr. Tim's freshwater bacteria. I would like to do a fishless cycle....I  understand that I need ammonia...Can anyone guide me through this. I plan to put  in flame tetras and albino tetras and 2 Cory  all in the 20 gal  I  want the 10 gal to be a sink tank...and how many tetras would be safe.   Thanks

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 40980	From: Gail	Date: 6/18/2009
Subject: Re: Why do Algae blooms only occur in my 55 Gallon?

I did do a thorough cleaning of this tank, and it has been well established for over a year. This is probably my second Algae bloom. And it is a Fresh water tank, with only gravel, plastic plants, some decor and a couple of terra cotta pots (my cichlids love them). So, will doing some floating plants help take away the nutrients from the Algae? Will the plants win the battle? --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "nicurns@..." <james_kristi@...> wrote: > > Gail, > I agree with Lenny that more information is needed. Also since you got this tank in a yard sell, did you perform a deep cleaning as it appears he may have used the tank for a saltwater tank and these carry many different types of algae that want necessarily survive in fresh water, but....decay and leach out materials into the water colume that support algae. After looking back, you didn't say what you are housing in the tank....Fresh, Salt or Brackish???? This also makes a difference. > Having myself kept salt tanks (fish only, as well as coral only), Reef tanks and now converted back to freshwater only I have seen first hand the acclimation periods changing a tank between each without proper cleaning. Lights as well play a big part in the equation as well, so more info is needed. > James S. > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@> wrote: > > > > The BIG THREE things for plants (and them unwanted single celled plants = > > Algae) is Lighting, CO2 & Nutrients. > > > > A heavier bioload could certainly be part of the problem as the heavier > > bioload would mean more fish poop and pee (ammonia, nitrates, phosphates) > > which are the principle feeding NUTRIENTS for plants and algae are single > > celled plants. The heavier bioload also means higher carbon and CO2 levels > > in the water from the fish breathing and from the detritus decaying and > > putting out carbonic acid. The LIGHTING could also be part of the problem. > > You have to look at the actual bulbs for any writing on them. The "blue" > > tube is likely an actinic light and the "white" tube could be fluorescent or > > compact fluorescent or other. Give us all the information/writing off of > > the bulbs, usually on one end. This would include wattage, lumens, item > > number, etc. > > > > Here's a two part article about planted tanks, that originally appeared in > > TFH Magazine, I think in 2006, and the second part of the article talks more > > about algae and will likely answer all/most of your questions. > > > > PART 1 - http://naturalaquariums.com/plantedtank/0509.html > > > > PART 2 - http://naturalaquariums.com/plantedtank/0510.html > > > > Doing more frequent tank maintenance (gravel vacuuming, proper filter > > cleaning, PWC's) on the tank with the heavier bioload and algae issues would > > be the first thing as this would lower the available nutrients and lower the > > CO2 level in the tank. The lighting, we can answer more once we know more. > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > > (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right > > side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On > > Behalf Of gail > > Sent: Monday, June 15, 2009 4:37 PM > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > Subject: [AquaticLife] Why do Algae blooms only occur in my 55 Gallon? > > > > Okay, I have been having algae blooms only occuring in my 55 gallon. > > Is it because it is my most populated tank? Or could it be due to that, and > > the light fixture on it? I currently have a light on it, that came with it. > > I bought it at a yard sale last summer, and the guy just told me that the > > lights were benneficial for Coral. It has two lights inside of it, a blue > > florescent and a white florescent. And it has a cooling fan on the light > > fixture, but that is all that I know about it. > > Can anyone here, outline the Typical causes of an algae bloom? > >   > > Thanks! > > Gail > > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 40981	From: Raymond Wetzel	Date: 6/18/2009
Subject: Re: Why do Algae blooms only occur in my 55 Gallon?

Gail, You can't go wrong with floating Water Sprite. It's easily grown, requires only medium light, has excellent surface coverage, has a decent root system which will absorb its needed nutrients directly from the water (helping to starve out any algae) and is not invasive to the point of being a nuisance, as is Duck Weed. It's attractive as well and will create a good deal of shade for the water below it. It will multiply easily, as well, as new plants will grow from the notches in the large plant's leaves. There are other surface plants too, but these (Salvinia and Azolla) are best grow in the pond as they do best in stronger light -- which you're trying to minimize (need to minimize). Ray --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Gail" <clandestine662002@...> wrote: > > I think you are right, I think I do have my tank a bit over-lit. I have recently refrained from the Actinic (sp) lights. > Typically I have both lights on during the day, then just the blue (actinics) on at night (as a huge night light lol). I really like the suggestion of floating plants. I may have to try that. I don't think I can get away with a planted tank - my Blood Parrot would ruin that right away. He uproots all of my plastic plants constantly. I am also a bit afraid to get into the whole planted tank "thing" :-) I often have a hard enough time keeping up with my tanks as is. I really might consider the floating plants. I don't have my tank C02 infused, or whatever. I just have a power head for some added O2 and some circulation. > Is there any preferences you all might have when it comes to floating plants? I would love to hear more about it. > > thanks, > gail > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@> wrote: > > > > Oh yeah... I forgot to add. Lots of floating plants would also help. > > Plants like Anacharis, Hornwort, Guppy Grass, etc.. They would block some > > of the light from the rest of the tank and floating plants are usually fast > > growing and easy to grow plants so they would get plenty of light from > > floating up top close to the lights and would also suck up nutrients from > > the water and also get added CO2 from the air above the water line. > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > > (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right > > side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On > > Behalf Of Amber Berglund > > Sent: Wednesday, June 17, 2009 10:08 PM > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: Why do Algae blooms only occur in my 55 > > Gallon? > > > > You have very close to the same light fixture that I have on my 55 gallon > > tank, I also get a lot of algae issues. I think it's a very high output of > > light and if you don't have enough plants in the tank to keep up with all of > > that light then the algae is going to grow instead. I would suggest getting > > a lot of easy to grow plants that like high to medium light. If you don't > > want to plant them in the gravel you can put them in terra cotta pots like I > > do, with soil under the gravel. I have learned from past mistakes to be > > careful how deep I bury the roots though, so make sure to not bury your > > plants too deep if you try this method. If the plants start to "melt away" > > then they might be burried too deeply. Also crypts like to melt away when > > you add them to your tank but they will regrow soon after, so don't be > > shocked if you get a crypt of some type and it melts soon after adding it to > > your tank. > > If you have fish that uproot plants you can put rocks around the plant on > > top of the gravel and that will make it harder for the fish to dig up the > > plants. If you don't keep live plants then I would recommend hardly turning > > your lights on at all during the day as any light is going to promote algae > > growth in your overstocked tank. > > > > Amber > > > > Gail wrote: > > > > > > > > > Okay, here is the results when I checked on my lighting fixture; it > > > doesn't have a lot of detail on the bulbs themselves, however it is a > > > Customsealife.com lighting product. Here is what I found: > > > 48" Orbit 4x65W SunPaq w/Lunar Lights/Fan SmartPaq lamps are > > > side-by-side combination blue actinic and daylight all-in-one lamps. > > > Dual lamps contain side-by-side bulbs all-in-one of either blue > > > actinic or daylight. > > > > > > Specifications: > > > (2)dual specturm daylight bulbs, (10,000k and 6,700k) (2)dual spectrum > > > actinic bulbs, (460nm and 420nm) 96w > > > > > > For now, I have been doing PWC and I vaccumed my gravel (again). I am > > > doing this every three days, I have cut back on how much I feed my > > > fish, and I am limiting how long my lights are on throughout the day. > > > > > > Please tell me your thoughts!! > > > > > > Thanks! > > > Gail > > > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>, "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" > > > <GoldLenny@> wrote: > > > > > > > > The BIG THREE things for plants (and them unwanted single celled > > > plants = > > > > Algae) is Lighting, CO2 & Nutrients. > > > > > > > > A heavier bioload could certainly be part of the problem as the > > > > heavier bioload would mean more fish poop and pee (ammonia, > > > > nitrates, > > > phosphates) > > > > which are the principle feeding NUTRIENTS for plants and algae are > > > single > > > > celled plants. The heavier bioload also means higher carbon and CO2 > > > levels > > > > in the water from the fish breathing and from the detritus decaying > > > > and putting out carbonic acid. The LIGHTING could also be part of > > > > the > > > problem. > > > > You have to look at the actual bulbs for any writing on them. The "blue" > > > > tube is likely an actinic light and the "white" tube could be > > > fluorescent or > > > > compact fluorescent or other. Give us all the information/writing > > > > off of the bulbs, usually on one end. This would include wattage, > > > > lumens, item number, etc. > > > > > > > > Here's a two part article about planted tanks, that originally > > > appeared in > > > > TFH Magazine, I think in 2006, and the second part of the article > > > talks more > > > > about algae and will likely answer all/most of your questions. > > > > > > > > PART 1 - http://naturalaquariums.com/plantedtank/0509.html > > > <http://naturalaquariums.com/plantedtank/0509.html> > > > > > > > > PART 2 - http://naturalaquariums.com/plantedtank/0510.html > > > <http://naturalaquariums.com/plantedtank/0510.html> > > > > > > > > Doing more frequent tank maintenance (gravel vacuuming, proper > > > > filter cleaning, PWC's) on the tank with the heavier bioload and > > > > algae > > > issues would > > > > be the first thing as this would lower the available nutrients and > > > lower the > > > > CO2 level in the tank. The lighting, we can answer more once we know > > > more. > > > > > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > > (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the > > > > right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by > > > > Year, > > > Month) > > > > > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On > > > > Behalf Of gail > > > > Sent: Monday, June 15, 2009 4:37 PM > > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > Subject: [AquaticLife] Why do Algae blooms only occur in my 55 Gallon? > > > > > > > > Okay, I have been having algae blooms only occuring in my 55 gallon. > > > > Is it because it is my most populated tank? Or could it be due to > > > that, and > > > > the light fixture on it? I currently have a light on it, that came > > > with it. > > > > I bought it at a yard sale last summer, and the guy just told me > > > that the > > > > lights were benneficial for Coral. It has two lights inside of it, a > > > blue > > > > florescent and a white florescent. And it has a cooling fan on the > > > > light fixture, but that is all that I know about it. > > > > Can anyone here, outline the Typical causes of an algae bloom? > > > > > > > > Thanks! > > > > Gail > > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 40982	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 6/18/2009
Subject: Re: Sexing AngelFish?

Shipping freshwater fish tends to be less stressful on the fish than saltwater from what I have heard (rumors), but I don't have saltwater tanks either, so I'm not sure personally. Mine seem to go into their spawning behavior about once a month or so. I leave the eggs in the tank and when I move my 2 angel's over to their own 55 gallon I will let them raise them by themselves. Some breeders also put in faster swimming tetras to help induce breeding too, you may have a mated pair and not know it as they haven't felt the desire to breed just yet. Have you ever had any middle swimming fast fish such as tetra's in the tank with your Angel's? Silver dollars are a popular fish to put in with Angel's, but they get big (bigger than the Angel's I think), I have never had any myself. But my LFS has some in stock, LOL. Amber nicurns@... wrote: > > > Amber, Thanks for replying. I don't see any aggressive behavior within > the tank except between the two angels at times. It almost appears as > though they are playing!!!LOL > The only other fish in that tank are 2 cory's and a medium sized > Pleco. The angels stay to themselves as do the cory's and I rarely see > the Pleco except an occasional darting whenever entering the room. > Regarding your angels.... Once they began spawning, how often did this > re-occur? Do you allow them to care for the babies or do you remove > them to a seperate tank? > I am planning on getting another larger angel or two, to go into this > tank but just having issues finding larger ones in my area. I have > purchased marine fish over the web in the past, but have not done so > with freshwater species yet. Maybe I'll start looking into this over > the next few weeks. > > Thanks, > James S. > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>, Amber Berglund <amber@...> wrote: > > > > Angel's are not able to be sexed unless they are actively laying eggs > > (spawning). Their sexual organs are inside obviously ;) LOL. > > I have a mated pair of angel's and I just happened to get lucky that > > way, I started out with 2 and one died, so I replaced it with another > > and that 2nd one turned out to be female and my first was a male. > > Most people get groups of angel's and wait until they pair up to find a > > pair to mate. > > Are your angel's showing any sign of mating behavior at all? When mine > > get ready to lay eggs they will chase all the other fish to the other > > side of the tank and start cleaning a spot to lay their eggs on (while > > the other one guards for intruders the female will start to lay the > > eggs, then they take turns guarding while the male fertilizes the > eggs). > > If you haven't seen too much aggression towards your other fish and the > > other 2 teaming up together and chasing the other fish away then I'd > > have to guess you have 2 of the same sex. > > It may be hard to introduce smaller angel's at this point in time as > the > > bigger ones will pick on the smaller ones. > > I suppose you could slowly try introducing some new angel's with a tank > > divider and see how aggressive the big ones are with the divider in. If > > they are really aggressive and attack at the divider then you may have > > to wait until the smaller angel's get closer in size to the big ones, > > you can speed up that process (a little) by frequent water changes and > > feeding the young Angel's really well, just make sure to keep the water > > changes going (don't go overboard on them, once a day should me more > > than plenty if you're doing 25% changes), this helps remove the > hormones > > from the water so the fish will grow a little faster. Unless you can > > talk to the breeder some how and see if they might be willing to trade > > you a mated pair ;) > > > > Amber > > > > > > nicurns@... wrote: > > > > > > > > > Hello all. My name is James and I live in UpState South Carolina. I > > > have been keeping fish for more years than I would like to admit, and > > > every 5 years or so I mix everything up and change what I am keeping. > > > Currently we have a 1200-1500 gal pond that I built, and rebuilt, and > > > of course rebuilt again. I am happy with my final result for now, but > > > do keep it in the back of my head that Bigger is Better, so who > knows??? > > > We have goldfish up to 13" long with their offspring that have not > > > been taken by the Heron during the winter. I also have 2 medium size > > > butterfly Koi and over abundance of plants. > > > Indoors, we have a 58gal FW tank with a 30gal sum-filter (making > > > between 80 and 90 gal's give or take),and 2 external filters as well > > > housing 2 large Angels, 2 cory's, and a pleco. This tank was a Reef > > > tank for many years, but I am over all that work!!!!!! We also have a > > > smaller tank that have a single LionHead Goldfish that is sooo > > > friendly that he eats from your hand. He may be going to the pond for > > > the summer... > > > I've had all types of fish over the years, but never angel's until > > > around 8 months ago. I visited our LSF, and they had a tank full of > > > nickel sized babies that another customer had breed. I actually met > > > the breeder in the store, and he has Angel's and Discus. I bought > 6 of > > > the babies, and they all did great until 3 months back when something > > > went wacky and I lost one after another in a span of two weeks. Well > > > the remaining 2 are now hugh (4-5" diameter). I would like them to > > > breed or get another one to go in with them, but I don't know if I > > > have a mixed pair, two males, or two females. Does anyone have any > > > ideas on how to sex them? > > > James S. > > > > > > > > > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 40983	From: Robert Mazur	Date: 6/18/2009
Subject: Gonna sound like a dumb question.

This is going to sound like a really dumb, n00bie question, but is $70 for a 5 gallon tank with all the accessories (hood, light, filter) an appropriate price? The reason that I ask is I am stationed in Germany now and left my betta in the care of a friend of mine. I left the 1.5 gallon tank behind too. My daughter is wanting fish again and at a local store I saw a 20L (5.2 US Gal) tank for �49.95 (Euro) which is roughly $70 (give or take, depending on the conversion rate). Also, what sorts of fish get along in that size tank? And the other question is, how long do fish usually live? Lastly, how would I go about finding an aquatic shop in Germany? Anyone on this list in Europe and can shed some light on the subject. Thanks! Rob -- http://www.pbase.com/mazurgallery/ http://themazurplace.blogspot.com/ http://www.flickr.com/photos/rpmazur/ http://s19.photobucket.com/albums/b185/rpmazur/ There are people who make things happen, there are people who watch things happen, and there are people who wonder what happened. To be successful, you need to be a person who makes things happen.. James A. Lovell [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 40984	From: Gail	Date: 6/18/2009
Subject: Re: Why do Algae blooms only occur in my 55 Gallon?

--- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Raymond Wetzel" <sevenspringss@...> wrote: > Any recommendations on where to get such fabulous plants?? thks!! > Gail, You can't go wrong with floating Water Sprite. It's easily grown, requires only medium light, has excellent surface coverage, has a decent root system which will absorb its needed nutrients directly from the water (helping to starve out any algae) and is not invasive to the point of being a nuisance, as is Duck Weed. It's attractive as well and will create a good deal of shade for the water below it. It will multiply easily, as well, as new plants will grow from the notches in the large plant's leaves. > > There are other surface plants too, but these (Salvinia and Azolla) are best grow in the pond as they do best in stronger light -- which you're trying to minimize (need to minimize). Ray > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Gail" <clandestine662002@> wrote: > > > > I think you are right, I think I do have my tank a bit over-lit. I have recently refrained from the Actinic (sp) lights. > > Typically I have both lights on during the day, then just the blue (actinics) on at night (as a huge night light lol). I really like the suggestion of floating plants. I may have to try that. I don't think I can get away with a planted tank - my Blood Parrot would ruin that right away. He uproots all of my plastic plants constantly. I am also a bit afraid to get into the whole planted tank "thing" :-) I often have a hard enough time keeping up with my tanks as is. I really might consider the floating plants. I don't have my tank C02 infused, or whatever. I just have a power head for some added O2 and some circulation. > > Is there any preferences you all might have when it comes to floating plants? I would love to hear more about it. > > > > thanks, > > gail > > > > > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@> wrote: > > > > > > Oh yeah... I forgot to add. Lots of floating plants would also help. > > > Plants like Anacharis, Hornwort, Guppy Grass, etc.. They would block some > > > of the light from the rest of the tank and floating plants are usually fast > > > growing and easy to grow plants so they would get plenty of light from > > > floating up top close to the lights and would also suck up nutrients from > > > the water and also get added CO2 from the air above the water line. > > > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > > > (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right > > > side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) > > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On > > > Behalf Of Amber Berglund > > > Sent: Wednesday, June 17, 2009 10:08 PM > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: Why do Algae blooms only occur in my 55 > > > Gallon? > > > > > > You have very close to the same light fixture that I have on my 55 gallon > > > tank, I also get a lot of algae issues. I think it's a very high output of > > > light and if you don't have enough plants in the tank to keep up with all of > > > that light then the algae is going to grow instead. I would suggest getting > > > a lot of easy to grow plants that like high to medium light. If you don't > > > want to plant them in the gravel you can put them in terra cotta pots like I > > > do, with soil under the gravel. I have learned from past mistakes to be > > > careful how deep I bury the roots though, so make sure to not bury your > > > plants too deep if you try this method. If the plants start to "melt away" > > > then they might be burried too deeply. Also crypts like to melt away when > > > you add them to your tank but they will regrow soon after, so don't be > > > shocked if you get a crypt of some type and it melts soon after adding it to > > > your tank. > > > If you have fish that uproot plants you can put rocks around the plant on > > > top of the gravel and that will make it harder for the fish to dig up the > > > plants. If you don't keep live plants then I would recommend hardly turning > > > your lights on at all during the day as any light is going to promote algae > > > growth in your overstocked tank. > > > > > > Amber > > > > > > Gail wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > Okay, here is the results when I checked on my lighting fixture; it > > > > doesn't have a lot of detail on the bulbs themselves, however it is a > > > > Customsealife.com lighting product. Here is what I found: > > > > 48" Orbit 4x65W SunPaq w/Lunar Lights/Fan SmartPaq lamps are > > > > side-by-side combination blue actinic and daylight all-in-one lamps. > > > > Dual lamps contain side-by-side bulbs all-in-one of either blue > > > > actinic or daylight. > > > > > > > > Specifications: > > > > (2)dual specturm daylight bulbs, (10,000k and 6,700k) (2)dual spectrum > > > > actinic bulbs, (460nm and 420nm) 96w > > > > > > > > For now, I have been doing PWC and I vaccumed my gravel (again). I am > > > > doing this every three days, I have cut back on how much I feed my > > > > fish, and I am limiting how long my lights are on throughout the day. > > > > > > > > Please tell me your thoughts!! > > > > > > > > Thanks! > > > > Gail > > > > > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>, "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" > > > > <GoldLenny@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > The BIG THREE things for plants (and them unwanted single celled > > > > plants = > > > > > Algae) is Lighting, CO2 & Nutrients. > > > > > > > > > > A heavier bioload could certainly be part of the problem as the > > > > > heavier bioload would mean more fish poop and pee (ammonia, > > > > > nitrates, > > > > phosphates) > > > > > which are the principle feeding NUTRIENTS for plants and algae are > > > > single > > > > > celled plants. The heavier bioload also means higher carbon and CO2 > > > > levels > > > > > in the water from the fish breathing and from the detritus decaying > > > > > and putting out carbonic acid. The LIGHTING could also be part of > > > > > the > > > > problem. > > > > > You have to look at the actual bulbs for any writing on them. The "blue" > > > > > tube is likely an actinic light and the "white" tube could be > > > > fluorescent or > > > > > compact fluorescent or other. Give us all the information/writing > > > > > off of the bulbs, usually on one end. This would include wattage, > > > > > lumens, item number, etc. > > > > > > > > > > Here's a two part article about planted tanks, that originally > > > > appeared in > > > > > TFH Magazine, I think in 2006, and the second part of the article > > > > talks more > > > > > about algae and will likely answer all/most of your questions. > > > > > > > > > > PART 1 - http://naturalaquariums.com/plantedtank/0509.html > > > > <http://naturalaquariums.com/plantedtank/0509.html> > > > > > > > > > > PART 2 - http://naturalaquariums.com/plantedtank/0510.html > > > > <http://naturalaquariums.com/plantedtank/0510.html> > > > > > > > > > > Doing more frequent tank maintenance (gravel vacuuming, proper > > > > > filter cleaning, PWC's) on the tank with the heavier bioload and > > > > > algae > > > > issues would > > > > > be the first thing as this would lower the available nutrients and > > > > lower the > > > > > CO2 level in the tank. The lighting, we can answer more once we know > > > > more. > > > > > > > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > > > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > > > (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the > > > > > right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by > > > > > Year, > > > > Month) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On > > > > > Behalf Of gail > > > > > Sent: Monday, June 15, 2009 4:37 PM > > > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > Subject: [AquaticLife] Why do Algae blooms only occur in my 55 Gallon? > > > > > > > > > > Okay, I have been having algae blooms only occuring in my 55 gallon. > > > > > Is it because it is my most populated tank? Or could it be due to > > > > that, and > > > > > the light fixture on it? I currently have a light on it, that came > > > > with it. > > > > > I bought it at a yard sale last summer, and the guy just told me > > > > that the > > > > > lights were benneficial for Coral. It has two lights inside of it, a > > > > blue > > > > > florescent and a white florescent. And it has a cooling fan on the > > > > > light fixture, but that is all that I know about it. > > > > > Can anyone here, outline the Typical causes of an algae bloom? > > > > > > > > > > Thanks! > > > > > Gail > > > > > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 40985	From: sgriscom_2	Date: 6/18/2009
Subject: New member!

Hello I'm a new member and I'm itching to get started. I have had many types of aquariums in the past. I currently have a 75 gallon set up with numerous mollies(some too small to count right now), 3 cory cats, a pleco, and snails. I originaly bought one snail, it must've took a page from my mollies cause now there are at least five. The main reson I joined the group is because I am looking for good advice on how to start my first fish pond. Hope someone can help. Thanks.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 40986	From: bill 1433	Date: 6/18/2009
Subject: Re: Sexing AngelFish?

Amber, If you hit those Angels at a wrong time the life-expediency of those Tetra's will be about 5 minutes! Once you give the fish their own tank, best leave it that way and save on your tetra pennies! Bill --- On Thu, 6/18/09, Amber Berglund <amber@...> wrote: > From: Amber Berglund <amber@...> > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: Sexing AngelFish? > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Date: Thursday, June 18, 2009, 5:09 PM > Shipping freshwater fish tends to be > less stressful on the fish than > saltwater from what I have heard (rumors), but I don't have > saltwater > tanks either, so I'm not sure personally. > Mine seem to go into their spawning behavior about once a > month or so. I > leave the eggs in the tank and when I move my 2 angel's > over to their > own 55 gallon I will let them raise them by themselves. > Some breeders also put in faster swimming tetras to help > induce breeding > too, you may have a mated pair and not know it as they > haven't felt the > desire to breed just yet. Have you ever had any middle > swimming fast > fish such as tetra's in the tank with your Angel's? > Silver dollars are a popular fish to put in with Angel's, > but they get > big (bigger than the Angel's I think), I have never had any > myself. But > my LFS has some in stock, LOL. > > Amber > > nicurns@... > wrote: > > > > > > Amber, Thanks for replying. I don't see any aggressive > behavior within > > the tank except between the two angels at times. It > almost appears as > > though they are playing!!!LOL > > The only other fish in that tank are 2 cory's and a > medium sized > > Pleco. The angels stay to themselves as do the cory's > and I rarely see > > the Pleco except an occasional darting whenever > entering the room. > > Regarding your angels.... Once they began spawning, > how often did this > > re-occur? Do you allow them to care for the babies or > do you remove > > them to a seperate tank? > > I am planning on getting another larger angel or two, > to go into this > > tank but just having issues finding larger ones in my > area. I have > > purchased marine fish over the web in the past, but > have not done so > > with freshwater species yet. Maybe I'll start looking > into this over > > the next few weeks. > > > > Thanks, > > James S. > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>, Amber > Berglund <amber@...> wrote: > > > > > > Angel's are not able to be sexed unless they are > actively laying eggs > > > (spawning). Their sexual organs are inside > obviously ;) LOL. > > > I have a mated pair of angel's and I just > happened to get lucky that > > > way, I started out with 2 and one died, so I > replaced it with another > > > and that 2nd one turned out to be female and my > first was a male. > > > Most people get groups of angel's and wait until > they pair up to find a > > > pair to mate. > > > Are your angel's showing any sign of mating > behavior at all? When mine > > > get ready to lay eggs they will chase all the > other fish to the other > > > side of the tank and start cleaning a spot to lay > their eggs on (while > > > the other one guards for intruders the female > will start to lay the > > > eggs, then they take turns guarding while the > male fertilizes the > > eggs). > > > If you haven't seen too much aggression towards > your other fish and the > > > other 2 teaming up together and chasing the other > fish away then I'd > > > have to guess you have 2 of the same sex. > > > It may be hard to introduce smaller angel's at > this point in time as > > the > > > bigger ones will pick on the smaller ones. > > > I suppose you could slowly try introducing some > new angel's with a tank > > > divider and see how aggressive the big ones are > with the divider in. If > > > they are really aggressive and attack at the > divider then you may have > > > to wait until the smaller angel's get closer in > size to the big ones, > > > you can speed up that process (a little) by > frequent water changes and > > > feeding the young Angel's really well, just make > sure to keep the water > > > changes going (don't go overboard on them, once a > day should me more > > > than plenty if you're doing 25% changes), this > helps remove the > > hormones > > > from the water so the fish will grow a little > faster. Unless you can > > > talk to the breeder some how and see if they > might be willing to trade > > > you a mated pair ;) > > > > > > Amber > > > > > > > > > nicurns@... wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > Hello all. My name is James and I live in > UpState South Carolina. I > > > > have been keeping fish for more years than I > would like to admit, and > > > > every 5 years or so I mix everything up and > change what I am keeping. > > > > Currently we have a 1200-1500 gal pond that > I built, and rebuilt, and > > > > of course rebuilt again. I am happy with my > final result for now, but > > > > do keep it in the back of my head that > Bigger is Better, so who > > knows??? > > > > We have goldfish up to 13" long with their > offspring that have not > > > > been taken by the Heron during the winter. I > also have 2 medium size > > > > butterfly Koi and over abundance of plants. > > > > Indoors, we have a 58gal FW tank with a > 30gal sum-filter (making > > > > between 80 and 90 gal's give or take),and 2 > external filters as well > > > > housing 2 large Angels, 2 cory's, and a > pleco. This tank was a Reef > > > > tank for many years, but I am over all that > work!!!!!! We also have a > > > > smaller tank that have a single LionHead > Goldfish that is sooo > > > > friendly that he eats from your hand. He may > be going to the pond for > > > > the summer... > > > > I've had all types of fish over the years, > but never angel's until > > > > around 8 months ago. I visited our LSF, and > they had a tank full of > > > > nickel sized babies that another customer > had breed. I actually met > > > > the breeder in the store, and he has Angel's > and Discus. I bought > > 6 of > > > > the babies, and they all did great until 3 > months back when something > > > > went wacky and I lost one after another in a > span of two weeks. Well > > > > the remaining 2 are now hugh (4-5" > diameter). I would like them to > > > > breed or get another one to go in with them, > but I don't know if I > > > > have a mixed pair, two males, or two > females. Does anyone have any > > > > ideas on how to sex them? > > > > James S. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ------------------------------------ > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when > replying, Thank You. > ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> > ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> > PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is > NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of > the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new > subject (was re: old subject)" <- > <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. > , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. > > If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of > unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by > clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the home page.  > > Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com > to receive the digest, which includes up to 25 posts at a > time in a single email > > Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com > for the No E-Mail option where you will still be able to > read messages on the group and post replies. > > Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com > to receive individual e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links > > >     mailto:AquaticLife-fullfeatured@yahoogroups.com > > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 40987	From: warrenprint@yahoo.com	Date: 6/18/2009
Subject: Re: Sexing AngelFish?

Amber, If you hit those Angels at a wrong time the life-expendenticy of those Tetra's will be about 5 mintues!  Once you give the fish their own tank, best leave it that way and save on your tetra pennies! Bill --- On Thu, 6/18/09, Amber Berglund <amber@...> wrote: > From: Amber Berglund <amber@...> > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: Sexing AngelFish? > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Date: Thursday, June 18, 2009, 5:09 PM > Shipping freshwater fish tends to be > less stressful on the fish than > saltwater from what I have heard (rumors), but I don't have > saltwater > tanks either, so I'm not sure personally. > Mine seem to go into their spawning behavior about once a > month or so. I > leave the eggs in the tank and when I move my 2 angel's > over to their > own 55 gallon I will let them raise them by themselves. > Some breeders also put in faster swimming tetras to help > induce breeding > too, you may have a mated pair and not know it as they > haven't felt the > desire to breed just yet. Have you ever had any middle > swimming fast > fish such as tetra's in the tank with your Angel's? > Silver dollars are a popular fish to put in with Angel's, > but they get > big (bigger than the Angel's I think), I have never had any > myself. But > my LFS has some in stock, LOL. > > Amber > > nicurns@... > wrote: > > > > > > Amber, Thanks for replying. I don't see any aggressive > behavior within > > the tank except between the two angels at times. It > almost appears as > > though they are playing!!!LOL > > The only other fish in that tank are 2 cory's and a > medium sized > > Pleco. The angels stay to themselves as do the cory's > and I rarely see > > the Pleco except an occasional darting whenever > entering the room. > > Regarding your angels.... Once they began spawning, > how often did this > > re-occur? Do you allow them to care for the babies or > do you remove > > them to a seperate tank? > > I am planning on getting another larger angel or two, > to go into this > > tank but just having issues finding larger ones in my > area. I have > > purchased marine fish over the web in the past, but > have not done so > > with freshwater species yet. Maybe I'll start looking > into this over > > the next few weeks. > > > > Thanks, > > James S. > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>, Amber > Berglund <amber@...> wrote: > > > > > > Angel's are not able to be sexed unless they are > actively laying eggs > > > (spawning). Their sexual organs are inside > obviously ;) LOL. > > > I have a mated pair of angel's and I just > happened to get lucky that > > > way, I started out with 2 and one died, so I > replaced it with another > > > and that 2nd one turned out to be female and my > first was a male. > > > Most people get groups of angel's and wait until > they pair up to find a > > > pair to mate. > > > Are your angel's showing any sign of mating > behavior at all? When mine > > > get ready to lay eggs they will chase all the > other fish to the other > > > side of the tank and start cleaning a spot to lay > their eggs on (while > > > the other one guards for intruders the female > will start to lay the > > > eggs, then they take turns guarding while the > male fertilizes the > > eggs). > > > If you haven't seen too much aggression towards > your other fish and the > > > other 2 teaming up together and chasing the other > fish away then I'd > > > have to guess you have 2 of the same sex. > > > It may be hard to introduce smaller angel's at > this point in time as > > the > > > bigger ones will pick on the smaller ones. > > > I suppose you could slowly try introducing some > new angel's with a tank > > > divider and see how aggressive the big ones are > with the divider in. If > > > they are really aggressive and attack at the > divider then you may have > > > to wait until the smaller angel's get closer in > size to the big ones, > > > you can speed up that process (a little) by > frequent water changes and > > > feeding the young Angel's really well, just make > sure to keep the water > > > changes going (don't go overboard on them, once a > day should me more > > > than plenty if you're doing 25% changes), this > helps remove the > > hormones > > > from the water so the fish will grow a little > faster. Unless you can > > > talk to the breeder some how and see if they > might be willing to trade > > > you a mated pair ;) > > > > > > Amber > > > > > > > > > nicurns@... wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > Hello all. My name is James and I live in > UpState South Carolina. I > > > > have been keeping fish for more years than I > would like to admit, and > > > > every 5 years or so I mix everything up and > change what I am keeping. > > > > Currently we have a 1200-1500 gal pond that > I built, and rebuilt, and > > > > of course rebuilt again. I am happy with my > final result for now, but > > > > do keep it in the back of my head that > Bigger is Better, so who > > knows??? > > > > We have goldfish up to 13" long with their > offspring that have not > > > > been taken by the Heron during the winter. I > also have 2 medium size > > > > butterfly Koi and over abundance of plants. > > > > Indoors, we have a 58gal FW tank with a > 30gal sum-filter (making > > > > between 80 and 90 gal's give or take),and 2 > external filters as well > > > > housing 2 large Angels, 2 cory's, and a > pleco. This tank was a Reef > > > > tank for many years, but I am over all that > work!!!!!! We also have a > > > > smaller tank that have a single LionHead > Goldfish that is sooo > > > > friendly that he eats from your hand. He may > be going to the pond for > > > > the summer... > > > > I've had all types of fish over the years, > but never angel's until > > > > around 8 months ago. I visited our LSF, and > they had a tank full of > > > > nickel sized babies that another customer > had breed. I actually met > > > > the breeder in the store, and he has Angel's > and Discus. I bought > > 6 of > > > > the babies, and they all did great until 3 > months back when something > > > > went wacky and I lost one after another in a > span of two weeks. Well > > > > the remaining 2 are now hugh (4-5" > diameter). I would like them to > > > > breed or get another one to go in with them, > but I don't know if I > > > > have a mixed pair, two males, or two > females. Does anyone have any > > > > ideas on how to sex them? > > > > James S. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ------------------------------------ > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when > replying, Thank You. > ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> > ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> > PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is > NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of > the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new > subject (was re: old subject)" <- > <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. > , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. > > If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of > unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by > clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the home page.  > > Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com > to receive the digest, which includes up to 25 posts at a > time in a single email > > Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com > for the No E-Mail option where you will still be able to > read messages on the group and post replies. > > Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com > to receive individual e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links > > >     mailto:AquaticLife-fullfeatured@yahoogroups.com > > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 40988	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 6/18/2009
Subject: Re: Sexing AngelFish?

I've read from some breeders that some Angelfish need activity in the tank from other fish to help induce breeding habits, but mine don't seem to have any problem with that so far, will have to see how they act alone. Amber bill 1433 wrote: > > > > Amber, > > If you hit those Angels at a wrong time the life-expediency of > those Tetra's will be about 5 minutes! Once you give the fish their > own tank, best leave it that way and save on your tetra pennies! > > Bill > > --- On Thu, 6/18/09, Amber Berglund <amber@... > <mailto:amber%40rose-fields.com>> wrote: > > > From: Amber Berglund <amber@... > <mailto:amber%40rose-fields.com>> > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: Sexing AngelFish? > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > Date: Thursday, June 18, 2009, 5:09 PM > > Shipping freshwater fish tends to be > > less stressful on the fish than > > saltwater from what I have heard (rumors), but I don't have > > saltwater > > tanks either, so I'm not sure personally. > > Mine seem to go into their spawning behavior about once a > > month or so. I > > leave the eggs in the tank and when I move my 2 angel's > > over to their > > own 55 gallon I will let them raise them by themselves. > > Some breeders also put in faster swimming tetras to help > > induce breeding > > too, you may have a mated pair and not know it as they > > haven't felt the > > desire to breed just yet. Have you ever had any middle > > swimming fast > > fish such as tetra's in the tank with your Angel's? > > Silver dollars are a popular fish to put in with Angel's, > > but they get > > big (bigger than the Angel's I think), I have never had any > > myself. But > > my LFS has some in stock, LOL. > > > > Amber > > > > nicurns@... <mailto:nicurns%40bellsouth.net> > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > Amber, Thanks for replying. I don't see any aggressive > > behavior within > > > the tank except between the two angels at times. It > > almost appears as > > > though they are playing!!!LOL > > > The only other fish in that tank are 2 cory's and a > > medium sized > > > Pleco. The angels stay to themselves as do the cory's > > and I rarely see > > > the Pleco except an occasional darting whenever > > entering the room. > > > Regarding your angels.... Once they began spawning, > > how often did this > > > re-occur? Do you allow them to care for the babies or > > do you remove > > > them to a seperate tank? > > > I am planning on getting another larger angel or two, > > to go into this > > > tank but just having issues finding larger ones in my > > area. I have > > > purchased marine fish over the web in the past, but > > have not done so > > > with freshwater species yet. Maybe I'll start looking > > into this over > > > the next few weeks. > > > > > > Thanks, > > > James S. > > > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>, Amber > > Berglund <amber@...> wrote: > > > > > > > > Angel's are not able to be sexed unless they are > > actively laying eggs > > > > (spawning). Their sexual organs are inside > > obviously ;) LOL. > > > > I have a mated pair of angel's and I just > > happened to get lucky that > > > > way, I started out with 2 and one died, so I > > replaced it with another > > > > and that 2nd one turned out to be female and my > > first was a male. > > > > Most people get groups of angel's and wait until > > they pair up to find a > > > > pair to mate. > > > > Are your angel's showing any sign of mating > > behavior at all? When mine > > > > get ready to lay eggs they will chase all the > > other fish to the other > > > > side of the tank and start cleaning a spot to lay > > their eggs on (while > > > > the other one guards for intruders the female > > will start to lay the > > > > eggs, then they take turns guarding while the > > male fertilizes the > > > eggs). > > > > If you haven't seen too much aggression towards > > your other fish and the > > > > other 2 teaming up together and chasing the other > > fish away then I'd > > > > have to guess you have 2 of the same sex. > > > > It may be hard to introduce smaller angel's at > > this point in time as > > > the > > > > bigger ones will pick on the smaller ones. > > > > I suppose you could slowly try introducing some > > new angel's with a tank > > > > divider and see how aggressive the big ones are > > with the divider in. If > > > > they are really aggressive and attack at the > > divider then you may have > > > > to wait until the smaller angel's get closer in > > size to the big ones, > > > > you can speed up that process (a little) by > > frequent water changes and > > > > feeding the young Angel's really well, just make > > sure to keep the water > > > > changes going (don't go overboard on them, once a > > day should me more > > > > than plenty if you're doing 25% changes), this > > helps remove the > > > hormones > > > > from the water so the fish will grow a little > > faster. Unless you can > > > > talk to the breeder some how and see if they > > might be willing to trade > > > > you a mated pair ;) > > > > > > > > Amber > > > > > > > > > > > > nicurns@... wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Hello all. My name is James and I live in > > UpState South Carolina. I > > > > > have been keeping fish for more years than I > > would like to admit, and > > > > > every 5 years or so I mix everything up and > > change what I am keeping. > > > > > Currently we have a 1200-1500 gal pond that > > I built, and rebuilt, and > > > > > of course rebuilt again. I am happy with my > > final result for now, but > > > > > do keep it in the back of my head that > > Bigger is Better, so who > > > knows??? > > > > > We have goldfish up to 13" long with their > > offspring that have not > > > > > been taken by the Heron during the winter. I > > also have 2 medium size > > > > > butterfly Koi and over abundance of plants. > > > > > Indoors, we have a 58gal FW tank with a > > 30gal sum-filter (making > > > > > between 80 and 90 gal's give or take),and 2 > > external filters as well > > > > > housing 2 large Angels, 2 cory's, and a > > pleco. This tank was a Reef > > > > > tank for many years, but I am over all that > > work!!!!!! We also have a > > > > > smaller tank that have a single LionHead > > Goldfish that is sooo > > > > > friendly that he eats from your hand. He may > > be going to the pond for > > > > > the summer... > > > > > I've had all types of fish over the years, > > but never angel's until > > > > > around 8 months ago. I visited our LSF, and > > they had a tank full of > > > > > nickel sized babies that another customer > > had breed. I actually met > > > > > the breeder in the store, and he has Angel's > > and Discus. I bought > > > 6 of > > > > > the babies, and they all did great until 3 > > months back when something > > > > > went wacky and I lost one after another in a > > span of two weeks. Well > > > > > the remaining 2 are now hugh (4-5" > > diameter). I would like them to > > > > > breed or get another one to go in with them, > > but I don't know if I > > > > > have a mixed pair, two males, or two > > females. Does anyone have any > > > > > ideas on how to sex them? > > > > > James S. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ------------------------------------ > > > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when > > replying, Thank You. > > ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> > > ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> > > PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is > > NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of > > the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new > > subject (was re: old subject)" <- > > <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. > > , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. > > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. > > > > If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of > > unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by > > clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the home page. > > > > Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:aquaticlife-digest%40yahoogroups.com> > > to receive the digest, which includes up to 25 posts at a > > time in a single email > > > > Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:aquaticlife-nomail%40yahoogroups.com> > > for the No E-Mail option where you will still be able to > > read messages on the group and post replies. > > > > Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:aquaticlife-normal%40yahoogroups.com> > > to receive individual e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > mailto:AquaticLife-fullfeatured@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife-fullfeatured%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 40989	From: sgriscom_2	Date: 6/18/2009
Subject: Re: Hello!!

Hello Jade, I am new to the group as well. I have had guppies before so I know how amusing they can be. I have mollies right now and they too breed on occasion. Good luck with your lotus. Never had those before. Shannon. --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "ladyjadewindrunner" <ladyjadewindrunner@...> wrote: > > I thought I would introduce myself =) My name is Jade, I am 22, and live in Northwest Indiana. I have been a proud owner of aquariums for over ten years, and specialize in raising guppies. At current, I have a 20 gallon aquarium with about 15 guppies, a dwarf lily(not sure what species as it is much lighter than the nymphaea rubra), several bunches of Java Fern, a nymphaea rubra, and a Tiger Lotus(that is still, currently, a leafless bulb.) > > In my 10 years I have successfully raised and sold well over two thousand guppies, from a standard fancy guppy to king cobras and half-blacks. I just recently started incorporating live plants into my aquarium upon seeing a friend's well-planted tank that I absolutely fell in love with. > > As late, the numbers of my fish have, sadly, begun to dwindle due to Whirling Disease (which, for those unfamiliar, is a parasite that attacks their brain and to my knowledge cannot be treated except for culling those infected with it). Should I lose my guppies totally, I plan on, after proper treatment of the tank to ensure no parasites remain, though I doubt they would as they tend to die off when no fish are present, with Angelfish. So far, though, most of the guppies that remain are strong, healthy, and breeding! Should I set my heart on angelfish I intend on taking the guppies to a local store that accepts fish for in-store credit to get my angels that way. > > I do hate to introduce myself with a question, but as I am new to plants, I do have one. How long should it take for a Tiger Lotus bulb to begin putting out roots and leaves? the nymphaea rubra put out leaves the very day I introduced the bulb to my aquarium, however I am aware that a red tiger lotus has a longer growth rate than the rubra. > > Well, that being said, I look forward to talking with you all! > > Jade >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 40990	From: nysportsfan45	Date: 6/18/2009
Subject: Hello....New to group and have a question

My son won a goldfish at a carnival..... I went out and got a small 5 gallon tank. Added the water and gravel and waited 24 hours to put the fish in. Had the fish about a week and now I noticed a black mark around his gills. Over the past 3 days the black mark got larger and darker. Can anyone tell me what that might be and what I can do to help the fish?

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 40991	From: Jim Pat.	Date: 6/18/2009
Subject: Re: Sexing AngelFish?

James, That is some pond! I have found the best way to sex any fish is to put a picture of your favorite football team on the right side of the tank, all the male fish will to there.... ;) Let me know if I can help you with anything else.... Jim

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 40992	From: Raymond Wetzel	Date: 6/18/2009
Subject: Re: Sexing AngelFish?

NO, Not So! I don't know where you read that, but I wonder if perhaps you misread it, If not, whoever wrote that is wrong, other fish in the tank WILL NOT induce any Angelfish to spawn. Could you please tell me where you read this? I would tend to doubt that it woyuld be in any well-penned book, as this kind of erroneous info has a way of getting itself known as such as it spreads throughout the hobby. I did notice that you advised James of this; just another case of you can't believe all you read. If it was on a web site, I can understand that -- no one should put complete faith in everything they read up there, and pass it along, without knowing if it's true. Tetras, or any other small fish, when put with a breeding pair of any species of substrate-sawning Cichlids are intended to draw the attention of either one of the more aggressive partners of the pair away from the other partner so that the least aggressive partner does not take the full aggression of the more overbearing one. They (these "dither fish") act to initiate the territorial behavior of both partners of the breesding pair so that they act in symphony with each other towards one goal -- to keep the intruders out of the breeding area. In this way, attention is drawn to these dither fish, rather than each other. The pair is more apt to act in harmony rather than one beating up on the other. This methods of using dither fish is usually reserved for much more aggressive Cichlids. Most Angelfish pairs do not need dither fish with them, nor will these dither fish induce their spawning. They will spawn when they want to spawn. Most good young pairs will spawn every eight days once they start spawning, when allowed (when you pull the slate, to set their breeding cycle going again). They will taper off after about 2 1/2 years of age (they will start spawning between 7 and 8 months, usually closer to 9 months). Ray ---In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, Amber Berglund <amber@...> wrote: > > I've read from some breeders that some Angelfish need activity in the > tank from other fish to help induce breeding habits, but mine don't seem > to have any problem with that so far, will have to see how they act alone. > > Amber > > bill 1433 wrote: > > > > > > > > Amber, > > > > If you hit those Angels at a wrong time the life-expediency of > > those Tetra's will be about 5 minutes! Once you give the fish their > > own tank, best leave it that way and save on your tetra pennies! > > > > Bill > > > > --- On Thu, 6/18/09, Amber Berglund <amber@... > > <mailto:amber%40rose-fields.com>> wrote: > > > > > From: Amber Berglund <amber@... > > <mailto:amber%40rose-fields.com>> > > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: Sexing AngelFish? > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > Date: Thursday, June 18, 2009, 5:09 PM > > > Shipping freshwater fish tends to be > > > less stressful on the fish than > > > saltwater from what I have heard (rumors), but I don't have > > > saltwater > > > tanks either, so I'm not sure personally. > > > Mine seem to go into their spawning behavior about once a > > > month or so. I > > > leave the eggs in the tank and when I move my 2 angel's > > > over to their > > > own 55 gallon I will let them raise them by themselves. > > > Some breeders also put in faster swimming tetras to help > > > induce breeding > > > too, you may have a mated pair and not know it as they > > > haven't felt the > > > desire to breed just yet. Have you ever had any middle > > > swimming fast > > > fish such as tetra's in the tank with your Angel's? > > > Silver dollars are a popular fish to put in with Angel's, > > > but they get > > > big (bigger than the Angel's I think), I have never had any > > > myself. But > > > my LFS has some in stock, LOL. > > > > > > Amber > > > > > > nicurns@... <mailto:nicurns%40bellsouth.net> > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > Amber, Thanks for replying. I don't see any aggressive > > > behavior within > > > > the tank except between the two angels at times. It > > > almost appears as > > > > though they are playing!!!LOL > > > > The only other fish in that tank are 2 cory's and a > > > medium sized > > > > Pleco. The angels stay to themselves as do the cory's > > > and I rarely see > > > > the Pleco except an occasional darting whenever > > > entering the room. > > > > Regarding your angels.... Once they began spawning, > > > how often did this > > > > re-occur? Do you allow them to care for the babies or > > > do you remove > > > > them to a seperate tank? > > > > I am planning on getting another larger angel or two, > > > to go into this > > > > tank but just having issues finding larger ones in my > > > area. I have > > > > purchased marine fish over the web in the past, but > > > have not done so > > > > with freshwater species yet. Maybe I'll start looking > > > into this over > > > > the next few weeks. > > > > > > > > Thanks, > > > > James S. > > > > > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>, Amber > > > Berglund <amber@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > Angel's are not able to be sexed unless they are > > > actively laying eggs > > > > > (spawning). Their sexual organs are inside > > > obviously ;) LOL. > > > > > I have a mated pair of angel's and I just > > > happened to get lucky that > > > > > way, I started out with 2 and one died, so I > > > replaced it with another > > > > > and that 2nd one turned out to be female and my > > > first was a male. > > > > > Most people get groups of angel's and wait until > > > they pair up to find a > > > > > pair to mate. > > > > > Are your angel's showing any sign of mating > > > behavior at all? When mine > > > > > get ready to lay eggs they will chase all the > > > other fish to the other > > > > > side of the tank and start cleaning a spot to lay > > > their eggs on (while > > > > > the other one guards for intruders the female > > > will start to lay the > > > > > eggs, then they take turns guarding while the > > > male fertilizes the > > > > eggs). > > > > > If you haven't seen too much aggression towards > > > your other fish and the > > > > > other 2 teaming up together and chasing the other > > > fish away then I'd > > > > > have to guess you have 2 of the same sex. > > > > > It may be hard to introduce smaller angel's at > > > this point in time as > > > > the > > > > > bigger ones will pick on the smaller ones. > > > > > I suppose you could slowly try introducing some > > > new angel's with a tank > > > > > divider and see how aggressive the big ones are > > > with the divider in. If > > > > > they are really aggressive and attack at the > > > divider then you may have > > > > > to wait until the smaller angel's get closer in > > > size to the big ones, > > > > > you can speed up that process (a little) by > > > frequent water changes and > > > > > feeding the young Angel's really well, just make > > > sure to keep the water > > > > > changes going (don't go overboard on them, once a > > > day should me more > > > > > than plenty if you're doing 25% changes), this > > > helps remove the > > > > hormones > > > > > from the water so the fish will grow a little > > > faster. Unless you can > > > > > talk to the breeder some how and see if they > > > might be willing to trade > > > > > you a mated pair ;) > > > > > > > > > > Amber > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > nicurns@ wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Hello all. My name is James and I live in > > > UpState South Carolina. I > > > > > > have been keeping fish for more years than I > > > would like to admit, and > > > > > > every 5 years or so I mix everything up and > > > change what I am keeping. > > > > > > Currently we have a 1200-1500 gal pond that > > > I built, and rebuilt, and > > > > > > of course rebuilt again. I am happy with my > > > final result for now, but > > > > > > do keep it in the back of my head that > > > Bigger is Better, so who > > > > knows??? > > > > > > We have goldfish up to 13" long with their > > > offspring that have not > > > > > > been taken by the Heron during the winter. I > > > also have 2 medium size > > > > > > butterfly Koi and over abundance of plants. > > > > > > Indoors, we have a 58gal FW tank with a > > > 30gal sum-filter (making > > > > > > between 80 and 90 gal's give or take),and 2 > > > external filters as well > > > > > > housing 2 large Angels, 2 cory's, and a > > > pleco. This tank was a Reef > > > > > > tank for many years, but I am over all that > > > work!!!!!! We also have a > > > > > > smaller tank that have a single LionHead > > > Goldfish that is sooo > > > > > > friendly that he eats from your hand. He may > > > be going to the pond for > > > > > > the summer... > > > > > > I've had all types of fish over the years, > > > but never angel's until > > > > > > around 8 months ago. I visited our LSF, and > > > they had a tank full of > > > > > > nickel sized babies that another customer > > > had breed. I actually met > > > > > > the breeder in the store, and he has Angel's > > > and Discus. I bought > > > > 6 of > > > > > > the babies, and they all did great until 3 > > > months back when something > > > > > > went wacky and I lost one after another in a > > > span of two weeks. Well > > > > > > the remaining 2 are now hugh (4-5" > > > diameter). I would like them to > > > > > > breed or get another one to go in with them, > > > but I don't know if I > > > > > > have a mixed pair, two males, or two > > > females. Does anyone have any > > > > > > ideas on how to sex them? > > > > > > James S. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ------------------------------------ > > > > > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when > > > replying, Thank You. > > > ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> > > > ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> > > > PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is > > > NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of > > > the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new > > > subject (was re: old subject)" <- > > > <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. > > > , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. > > > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. > > > > > > If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of > > > unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by > > > clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the home page. > > > > > > Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com > > <mailto:aquaticlife-digest%40yahoogroups.com> > > > to receive the digest, which includes up to 25 posts at a > > > time in a single email > > > > > > Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com > > <mailto:aquaticlife-nomail%40yahoogroups.com> > > > for the No E-Mail option where you will still be able to > > > read messages on the group and post replies. > > > > > > Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com > > <mailto:aquaticlife-normal%40yahoogroups.com> > > > to receive individual e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > > > > mailto:AquaticLife-fullfeatured@yahoogroups.com > > <mailto:AquaticLife-fullfeatured%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 40993	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 6/18/2009
Subject: Re: Hello....New to group and have a question

Goldfish can change color, especially young fish. Is the color really black, or is it a dark olive? The five gallon tank is too small for your fish. Gold fish really need about 30 gallons of water per fish. Since this was a fish won at a carnival, it is likely to be a comet or just a plain old goldfish. The difference is that the ordinary goldfish is relatively chunky fish with round lobes on the caudal fin, the comet is a sleek torpedo like shape, and the lobes of the caudal tend to be pointed. Both fish, especially the comet, need swimming room, so the longer the tank is, the better for the fish. Letting the water sit for 24 hours is not sufficient. The tank needs to be cycled. There have been many discussions here about the cycle, the nitrogen cycle, or the biological cycle (all refer to the same thing), so you can do a search of the forum archives using those phrases for search terms. You will find how to handle a cycle with fish, as you have now, and about doing a fishless cycle (for the next, proper sized tank). Goldfish are omnivores, but tend to the vegetarian side of that term. Make sure the food you are feeding has a lot of green vegetable matter listed in its ingredients. \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of nysportsfan45 Sent: Thursday, June 18, 2009 5:47 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Hello....New to group and have a question My son won a goldfish at a carnival..... I went out and got a small 5 gallon tank. Added the water and gravel and waited 24 hours to put the fish in. Had the fish about a week and now I noticed a black mark around his gills. Over the past 3 days the black mark got larger and darker. Can anyone tell me what that might be and what I can do to help the fish?

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 40994	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 6/18/2009
Subject: Re: Sexing AngelFish?

I don't hold onto all the links I read like Lenny does, so I have no idea what breeder site on Angel's I read that on. I don't mind being corrected Ray, but sometimes I wish you weren't quite so mean about it sometimes, I didn't see you offering him any help on getting his Angel's to breed and I was doing my best with what info I have read on them, and since I have no problems getting mine to spawn I was trying to pass on tips that I had read elsewhere. If I was writing a paper on breeding Angel's then I could understand asking for all of my sources and page info but I'm just trying to help someone out with the info that I had found when I was researching. Guess I will just stick to the info that I personally have experienced since I seem to be wrong so often when I try to pass on info that I've read. Amber Raymond Wetzel wrote: > > > NO, Not So! I don't know where you read that, but I wonder if perhaps > you misread it, If not, whoever wrote that is wrong, other fish in the > tank WILL NOT induce any Angelfish to spawn. Could you please tell me > where you read this? I would tend to doubt that it woyuld be in any > well-penned book, as this kind of erroneous info has a way of getting > itself known as such as it spreads throughout the hobby. I did notice > that you advised James of this; just another case of you can't believe > all you read. If it was on a web site, I can understand that -- no one > should put complete faith in everything they read up there, and pass > it along, without knowing if it's true. > > Tetras, or any other small fish, when put with a breeding pair of any > species of substrate-sawning Cichlids are intended to draw the > attention of either one of the more aggressive partners of the pair > away from the other partner so that the least aggressive partner does > not take the full aggression of the more overbearing one. > > They (these "dither fish") act to initiate the territorial behavior of > both partners of the breesding pair so that they act in symphony with > each other towards one goal -- to keep the intruders out of the > breeding area. In this way, attention is drawn to these dither fish, > rather than each other. The pair is more apt to act in harmony rather > than one beating up on the other. This methods of using dither fish is > usually reserved for much more aggressive Cichlids. Most Angelfish > pairs do not need dither fish with them, nor will these dither fish > induce their spawning. They will spawn when they want to spawn. Most > good young pairs will spawn every eight days once they start spawning, > when allowed (when you pull the slate, to set their breeding cycle > going again). They will taper off after about 2 1/2 years of age (they > will start spawning between 7 and 8 months, usually closer to 9 > months). Ray > > ---In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>, Amber Berglund <amber@...> wrote: > > > > I've read from some breeders that some Angelfish need activity in the > > tank from other fish to help induce breeding habits, but mine don't > seem > > to have any problem with that so far, will have to see how they act > alone. > > > > Amber > > > > bill 1433 wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > Amber, > > > > > > If you hit those Angels at a wrong time the life-expediency of > > > those Tetra's will be about 5 minutes! Once you give the fish their > > > own tank, best leave it that way and save on your tetra pennies! > > > > > > Bill > > > > > > --- On Thu, 6/18/09, Amber Berglund <amber@... > > > <mailto:amber%40rose-fields.com>> wrote: > > > > > > > From: Amber Berglund <amber@... > > > <mailto:amber%40rose-fields.com>> > > > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: Sexing AngelFish? > > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > Date: Thursday, June 18, 2009, 5:09 PM > > > > Shipping freshwater fish tends to be > > > > less stressful on the fish than > > > > saltwater from what I have heard (rumors), but I don't have > > > > saltwater > > > > tanks either, so I'm not sure personally. > > > > Mine seem to go into their spawning behavior about once a > > > > month or so. I > > > > leave the eggs in the tank and when I move my 2 angel's > > > > over to their > > > > own 55 gallon I will let them raise them by themselves. > > > > Some breeders also put in faster swimming tetras to help > > > > induce breeding > > > > too, you may have a mated pair and not know it as they > > > > haven't felt the > > > > desire to breed just yet. Have you ever had any middle > > > > swimming fast > > > > fish such as tetra's in the tank with your Angel's? > > > > Silver dollars are a popular fish to put in with Angel's, > > > > but they get > > > > big (bigger than the Angel's I think), I have never had any > > > > myself. But > > > > my LFS has some in stock, LOL. > > > > > > > > Amber > > > > > > > > nicurns@... <mailto:nicurns%40bellsouth.net> > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Amber, Thanks for replying. I don't see any aggressive > > > > behavior within > > > > > the tank except between the two angels at times. It > > > > almost appears as > > > > > though they are playing!!!LOL > > > > > The only other fish in that tank are 2 cory's and a > > > > medium sized > > > > > Pleco. The angels stay to themselves as do the cory's > > > > and I rarely see > > > > > the Pleco except an occasional darting whenever > > > > entering the room. > > > > > Regarding your angels.... Once they began spawning, > > > > how often did this > > > > > re-occur? Do you allow them to care for the babies or > > > > do you remove > > > > > them to a seperate tank? > > > > > I am planning on getting another larger angel or two, > > > > to go into this > > > > > tank but just having issues finding larger ones in my > > > > area. I have > > > > > purchased marine fish over the web in the past, but > > > > have not done so > > > > > with freshwater species yet. Maybe I'll start looking > > > > into this over > > > > > the next few weeks. > > > > > > > > > > Thanks, > > > > > James S. > > > > > > > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>, Amber > > > > Berglund <amber@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > Angel's are not able to be sexed unless they are > > > > actively laying eggs > > > > > > (spawning). Their sexual organs are inside > > > > obviously ;) LOL. > > > > > > I have a mated pair of angel's and I just > > > > happened to get lucky that > > > > > > way, I started out with 2 and one died, so I > > > > replaced it with another > > > > > > and that 2nd one turned out to be female and my > > > > first was a male. > > > > > > Most people get groups of angel's and wait until > > > > they pair up to find a > > > > > > pair to mate. > > > > > > Are your angel's showing any sign of mating > > > > behavior at all? When mine > > > > > > get ready to lay eggs they will chase all the > > > > other fish to the other > > > > > > side of the tank and start cleaning a spot to lay > > > > their eggs on (while > > > > > > the other one guards for intruders the female > > > > will start to lay the > > > > > > eggs, then they take turns guarding while the > > > > male fertilizes the > > > > > eggs). > > > > > > If you haven't seen too much aggression towards > > > > your other fish and the > > > > > > other 2 teaming up together and chasing the other > > > > fish away then I'd > > > > > > have to guess you have 2 of the same sex. > > > > > > It may be hard to introduce smaller angel's at > > > > this point in time as > > > > > the > > > > > > bigger ones will pick on the smaller ones. > > > > > > I suppose you could slowly try introducing some > > > > new angel's with a tank > > > > > > divider and see how aggressive the big ones are > > > > with the divider in. If > > > > > > they are really aggressive and attack at the > > > > divider then you may have > > > > > > to wait until the smaller angel's get closer in > > > > size to the big ones, > > > > > > you can speed up that process (a little) by > > > > frequent water changes and > > > > > > feeding the young Angel's really well, just make > > > > sure to keep the water > > > > > > changes going (don't go overboard on them, once a > > > > day should me more > > > > > > than plenty if you're doing 25% changes), this > > > > helps remove the > > > > > hormones > > > > > > from the water so the fish will grow a little > > > > faster. Unless you can > > > > > > talk to the breeder some how and see if they > > > > might be willing to trade > > > > > > you a mated pair ;) > > > > > > > > > > > > Amber > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > nicurns@ wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Hello all. My name is James and I live in > > > > UpState South Carolina. I > > > > > > > have been keeping fish for more years than I > > > > would like to admit, and > > > > > > > every 5 years or so I mix everything up and > > > > change what I am keeping. > > > > > > > Currently we have a 1200-1500 gal pond that > > > > I built, and rebuilt, and > > > > > > > of course rebuilt again. I am happy with my > > > > final result for now, but > > > > > > > do keep it in the back of my head that > > > > Bigger is Better, so who > > > > > knows??? > > > > > > > We have goldfish up to 13" long with their > > > > offspring that have not > > > > > > > been taken by the Heron during the winter. I > > > > also have 2 medium size > > > > > > > butterfly Koi and over abundance of plants. > > > > > > > Indoors, we have a 58gal FW tank with a > > > > 30gal sum-filter (making > > > > > > > between 80 and 90 gal's give or take),and 2 > > > > external filters as well > > > > > > > housing 2 large Angels, 2 cory's, and a > > > > pleco. This tank was a Reef > > > > > > > tank for many years, but I am over all that > > > > work!!!!!! We also have a > > > > > > > smaller tank that have a single LionHead > > > > Goldfish that is sooo > > > > > > > friendly that he eats from your hand. He may > > > > be going to the pond for > > > > > > > the summer... > > > > > > > I've had all types of fish over the years, > > > > but never angel's until > > > > > > > around 8 months ago. I visited our LSF, and > > > > they had a tank full of > > > > > > > nickel sized babies that another customer > > > > had breed. I actually met > > > > > > > the breeder in the store, and he has Angel's > > > > and Discus. I bought > > > > > 6 of > > > > > > > the babies, and they all did great until 3 > > > > months back when something > > > > > > > went wacky and I lost one after another in a > > > > span of two weeks. Well > > > > > > > the remaining 2 are now hugh (4-5" > > > > diameter). I would like them to > > > > > > > breed or get another one to go in with them, > > > > but I don't know if I > > > > > > > have a mixed pair, two males, or two > > > > females. Does anyone have any > > > > > > > ideas on how to sex them? > > > > > > > James S. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ------------------------------------ > > > > > > > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when > > > > replying, Thank You. > > > > ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> > > > > ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> > > > > PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is > > > > NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of > > > > the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new > > > > subject (was re: old subject)" <- > > > > <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. > > > > , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. > > > > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. > > > > > > > > If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of > > > > unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by > > > > clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the home page. > > > > > > > > Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:aquaticlife-digest%40yahoogroups.com> > > > <mailto:aquaticlife-digest%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > to receive the digest, which includes up to 25 posts at a > > > > time in a single email > > > > > > > > Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:aquaticlife-nomail%40yahoogroups.com> > > > <mailto:aquaticlife-nomail%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > for the No E-Mail option where you will still be able to > > > > read messages on the group and post replies. > > > > > > > > Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:aquaticlife-normal%40yahoogroups.com> > > > <mailto:aquaticlife-normal%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > to receive individual e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > > > > > > > mailto:AquaticLife-fullfeatured@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife-fullfeatured%40yahoogroups.com> > > > <mailto:AquaticLife-fullfeatured%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 40995	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 6/18/2009
Subject: Re: Why do Algae blooms only occur in my 55 Gallon?

If you want to go with some easy to grow live plants, there are several floating plants that will do well. I regularly use LOTS of Anacharis in my Goldfish tank. I let some float and I plant other stalks in clay pots and they grow to the surface and then across the surface. My planted tank blog article has LOTS of good info for a newbie wanting to try plants for the first time, including links to lists of easy to grow, low light plants. I have lots of Guppy Grass in my Cherry Shrimp tank. Of course, you don't have to worry about the low light issue but if you go with easy to grow floating plants, they'll do fine in your tank. On the PlantGeek.net "Guide to Easy Plants" (see link below), there are quite a few floating plants listed... Amazon Frogbit, Anacharis, Brazillian Pennywort, Duckweed, Floating Hearts, Guppy Grass, Hornwort, Indian Fern, Lesser Bladderwort, Stonewort. There are probably others in the four pages of Easy Plants but those were the ones that jumped out at me. They also sell fake plastic or silk plants that float and will block some of the light but the fake plants will not help with sucking up nutrients or CO2 so they will not help with your algae issue as much, except for blocking some of the light. http://goldlenny.blogspot.com/2008/10/planted-tank-so-you-want-planted-tank. html Here's a snip from my article dealing with the easy to grow, low light plants. These next links are to low-light, easy-to-grow plants which I recommend beginners start off with. Especially if you don't want to have the added expense and maintenance issues associated with high-light, special substrates and CO2 injection which might be required for higher light, harder-to-grow plants. http://www.plantgeek.net/plantguide_list.php?category=2&filter_by=2 (PlantGeek.net - Guide to Very Easy plants) http://www.plantgeek.net/plantguide_list.php?category=2&filter_by=3 (PlantGeek.net - Guide to Easy plants) http://naturalaquariums.com/plantedtank/0609.html (Tropical Fish Hobbyist Magazine - Easy Plants article) http://www.aquaticplantcentral.com/forumapc/plantfinder/ (AquaticPlantCentral.com - If you put in low for light and click Go, it will bring up a list of low light plants. If you do a second search in the Hardiness field and use Very Easy or Easy, you'll get a list of these types of plants... with good profiles on each of the plants. They started this database a couple of years ago and it has come a LONG way and appears to be much better than PlantGeek's now, so check it out!!!) (END SNIP) Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Gail Sent: Thursday, June 18, 2009 9:49 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Why do Algae blooms only occur in my 55 Gallon? I think you are right, I think I do have my tank a bit over-lit. I have recently refrained from the Actinic (sp) lights. Typically I have both lights on during the day, then just the blue (actinics) on at night (as a huge night light lol). I really like the suggestion of floating plants. I may have to try that. I don't think I can get away with a planted tank - my Blood Parrot would ruin that right away. He uproots all of my plastic plants constantly. I am also a bit afraid to get into the whole planted tank "thing" :-) I often have a hard enough time keeping up with my tanks as is. I really might consider the floating plants. I don't have my tank C02 infused, or whatever. I just have a power head for some added O2 and some circulation. Is there any preferences you all might have when it comes to floating plants? I would love to hear more about it. thanks, gail --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@...> wrote: > > Oh yeah... I forgot to add. Lots of floating plants would also help. > Plants like Anacharis, Hornwort, Guppy Grass, etc.. They would block some > of the light from the rest of the tank and floating plants are usually fast > growing and easy to grow plants so they would get plenty of light from > floating up top close to the lights and would also suck up nutrients from > the water and also get added CO2 from the air above the water line. > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right > side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) > > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On > Behalf Of Amber Berglund > Sent: Wednesday, June 17, 2009 10:08 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: Why do Algae blooms only occur in my 55 > Gallon? > > You have very close to the same light fixture that I have on my 55 gallon > tank, I also get a lot of algae issues. I think it's a very high output of > light and if you don't have enough plants in the tank to keep up with all of > that light then the algae is going to grow instead. I would suggest getting > a lot of easy to grow plants that like high to medium light. If you don't > want to plant them in the gravel you can put them in terra cotta pots like I > do, with soil under the gravel. I have learned from past mistakes to be > careful how deep I bury the roots though, so make sure to not bury your > plants too deep if you try this method. If the plants start to "melt away" > then they might be burried too deeply. Also crypts like to melt away when > you add them to your tank but they will regrow soon after, so don't be > shocked if you get a crypt of some type and it melts soon after adding it to > your tank. > If you have fish that uproot plants you can put rocks around the plant on > top of the gravel and that will make it harder for the fish to dig up the > plants. If you don't keep live plants then I would recommend hardly turning > your lights on at all during the day as any light is going to promote algae > growth in your overstocked tank. > > Amber > > Gail wrote: > > > > > > Okay, here is the results when I checked on my lighting fixture; it > > doesn't have a lot of detail on the bulbs themselves, however it is a > > Customsealife.com lighting product. Here is what I found: > > 48" Orbit 4x65W SunPaq w/Lunar Lights/Fan SmartPaq lamps are > > side-by-side combination blue actinic and daylight all-in-one lamps. > > Dual lamps contain side-by-side bulbs all-in-one of either blue > > actinic or daylight. > > > > Specifications: > > (2)dual specturm daylight bulbs, (10,000k and 6,700k) (2)dual spectrum > > actinic bulbs, (460nm and 420nm) 96w > > > > For now, I have been doing PWC and I vaccumed my gravel (again). I am > > doing this every three days, I have cut back on how much I feed my > > fish, and I am limiting how long my lights are on throughout the day. > > > > Please tell me your thoughts!! > > > > Thanks! > > Gail > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>, "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" > > <GoldLenny@> wrote: > > > > > > The BIG THREE things for plants (and them unwanted single celled > > plants = > > > Algae) is Lighting, CO2 & Nutrients. > > > > > > A heavier bioload could certainly be part of the problem as the > > > heavier bioload would mean more fish poop and pee (ammonia, > > > nitrates, > > phosphates) > > > which are the principle feeding NUTRIENTS for plants and algae are > > single > > > celled plants. The heavier bioload also means higher carbon and CO2 > > levels > > > in the water from the fish breathing and from the detritus decaying > > > and putting out carbonic acid. The LIGHTING could also be part of > > > the > > problem. > > > You have to look at the actual bulbs for any writing on them. The "blue" > > > tube is likely an actinic light and the "white" tube could be > > fluorescent or > > > compact fluorescent or other. Give us all the information/writing > > > off of the bulbs, usually on one end. This would include wattage, > > > lumens, item number, etc. > > > > > > Here's a two part article about planted tanks, that originally > > appeared in > > > TFH Magazine, I think in 2006, and the second part of the article > > talks more > > > about algae and will likely answer all/most of your questions. > > > > > > PART 1 - http://naturalaquariums.com/plantedtank/0509.html > > <http://naturalaquariums.com/plantedtank/0509.html> > > > > > > PART 2 - http://naturalaquariums.com/plantedtank/0510.html > > <http://naturalaquariums.com/plantedtank/0510.html> > > > > > > Doing more frequent tank maintenance (gravel vacuuming, proper > > > filter cleaning, PWC's) on the tank with the heavier bioload and > > > algae > > issues would > > > be the first thing as this would lower the available nutrients and > > lower the > > > CO2 level in the tank. The lighting, we can answer more once we know > > more. > > > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the > > > right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by > > > Year, > > Month) > > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On > > > Behalf Of gail > > > Sent: Monday, June 15, 2009 4:37 PM > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > Subject: [AquaticLife] Why do Algae blooms only occur in my 55 Gallon? > > > > > > Okay, I have been having algae blooms only occuring in my 55 gallon. > > > Is it because it is my most populated tank? Or could it be due to > > that, and > > > the light fixture on it? I currently have a light on it, that came > > with it. > > > I bought it at a yard sale last summer, and the guy just told me > > that the > > > lights were benneficial for Coral. It has two lights inside of it, a > > blue > > > florescent and a white florescent. And it has a cooling fan on the > > > light fixture, but that is all that I know about it. > > > Can anyone here, outline the Typical causes of an algae bloom? > > > > > > Thanks! > > > Gail

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 40996	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 6/18/2009
Subject: Re: Gonna sound like a dumb question.

What's the old saying... no such thing as a dumb question, only a dumb answer. Oops.. maybe I shouldn't have used that saying. :-P The price is high, IMO, but maybe that's the best they have over there. Are there Wal-Mart's over there yet? Wal-Mart has a 10G kit with everything except a heater for much less than that price. The darn webpage doesn't have the prices for the kits right now, saying instead to see store. http://www.walmart.com/catalog/catalog.gsp?cat=202101 They do have an Eclipse 6G full set up on the webpage for $49.96 but Eclipse's are higher priced acrylic tanks anyhow with a Bio-Wheel filter system built into the hood so they are considered a higher end tank compared to a "normal" 10G tank I'd go with a 10G tank over an Eclipse 6G tank any day. From what I recall, the 10G kit was around $35.00 or maybe less, the last time I looked in the store. I have a blog article called "Hailey's 10 Gallon Tank Stocking Suggestions" which will give you a good guideline of different fish and mixes you can have in a 10G tank. You could halve most of the suggestions for a 5-6G tank but some of the fish would not be suitable for a smaller tank than a 10G so do your research by asking us out here. http://goldlenny.blogspot.com/2007/03/haileys-10-gallon-tank-stocking-list.html I also have a blog article that I've been working on for several years called "How Long Should Aquarium Fish Live" which will answer most of your questions about that topic. http://goldlenny.blogspot.com/2007/02/how-long-should-aquarium-fish-live.html Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Robert Mazur Sent: Thursday, June 18, 2009 3:07 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Gonna sound like a dumb question. This is going to sound like a really dumb, n00bie question, but is $70 for a 5 gallon tank with all the accessories (hood, light, filter) an appropriate price? The reason that I ask is I am stationed in Germany now and left my betta in the care of a friend of mine. I left the 1.5 gallon tank behind too. My daughter is wanting fish again and at a local store I saw a 20L (5.2 US Gal) tank for €49.95 (Euro) which is roughly $70 (give or take, depending on the conversion rate). Also, what sorts of fish get along in that size tank? And the other question is, how long do fish usually live? Lastly, how would I go about finding an aquatic shop in Germany? Anyone on this list in Europe and can shed some light on the subject. Thanks! Rob -- http://www.pbase.com/mazurgallery/ http://themazurplace.blogspot.com/ http://www.flickr.com/photos/rpmazur/ http://s19.photobucket.com/albums/b185/rpmazur/ There are people who make things happen, there are people who watch things happen, and there are people who wonder what happened. To be successful, you need to be a person who makes things happen.. James A. Lovell

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 40997	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 6/18/2009
Subject: Re: Gonna sound like a dumb question.

Oops.. hit the send button too soon. I meant to add, THANKS for your service! Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Robert Mazur Sent: Thursday, June 18, 2009 3:07 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Gonna sound like a dumb question. This is going to sound like a really dumb, n00bie question, but is $70 for a 5 gallon tank with all the accessories (hood, light, filter) an appropriate price? The reason that I ask is I am stationed in Germany now and left my betta in the care of a friend of mine. I left the 1.5 gallon tank behind too. My daughter is wanting fish again and at a local store I saw a 20L (5.2 US Gal) tank for €49.95 (Euro) which is roughly $70 (give or take, depending on the conversion rate). Also, what sorts of fish get along in that size tank? And the other question is, how long do fish usually live? Lastly, how would I go about finding an aquatic shop in Germany? Anyone on this list in Europe and can shed some light on the subject. Thanks! Rob -- http://www.pbase.com/mazurgallery/ http://themazurplace.blogspot.com/ http://www.flickr.com/photos/rpmazur/ http://s19.photobucket.com/albums/b185/rpmazur/ There are people who make things happen, there are people who watch things happen, and there are people who wonder what happened. To be successful, you need to be a person who makes things happen.. James A. Lovell [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] ------------------------------------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the home page. Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com to receive the digest, which includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com for the No E-Mail option where you will still be able to read messages on the group and post replies. Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com to receive individual e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 40998	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 6/18/2009
Subject: Re: New member!

Welcome to the group. Start a new thread with a subject like "First Fish Pond" and, in your message give us an idea of what you are thinking for a pond, a bit about your local geology including the type of soil you have (rocky, sandy, clay, etc.), at least the USDA zone if you do not want to state a more specific location, and what may be growing in and around your yard as far as bushes and trees go. Members will take it from there FWIW, depending on your location, it may be a bit late to put in a pond this year, and expect much from it. \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of sgriscom_2 Sent: Thursday, June 18, 2009 5:19 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] New member! Hello I'm a new member and I'm itching to get started. I have had many types of aquariums in the past. I currently have a 75 gallon set up with numerous mollies(some too small to count right now), 3 cory cats, a pleco, and snails. I originaly bought one snail, it must've took a page from my mollies cause now there are at least five. The main reson I joined the group is because I am looking for good advice on how to start my first fish pond. Hope someone can help. Thanks.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 40999	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 6/18/2009
Subject: Re: Sexing AngelFish?

Amber, As you become more experienced, you will learn to be more discriminating with information you find on the web, in published articles, and even in books, especially when it goes against your personal experience. Ray is really a nice guy, he really is. He simply wanted a reference to the material you were passing along so he could check it out himself. The problem is that written communication does not always come across as you mean it to. Since I do know Ray (us old fogeys in the hobby need to stick together), I can read the message as he probably meant it., instead of reading it verbatim as you have. You need to learn to take what is said in e-mail with a little grain of salt rather than taking offense immediately. If ray meant to cut you down, believe me, you would have known it. \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Amber Berglund Sent: Thursday, June 18, 2009 9:46 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: Sexing AngelFish? I don't hold onto all the links I read like Lenny does, so I have no idea what breeder site on Angel's I read that on. I don't mind being corrected Ray, but sometimes I wish you weren't quite so mean about it sometimes, I didn't see you offering him any help on getting his Angel's to breed and I was doing my best with what info I have read on them, and since I have no problems getting mine to spawn I was trying to pass on tips that I had read elsewhere. If I was writing a paper on breeding Angel's then I could understand asking for all of my sources and page info but I'm just trying to help someone out with the info that I had found when I was researching. Guess I will just stick to the info that I personally have experienced since I seem to be wrong so often when I try to pass on info that I've read. Amber Raymond Wetzel wrote: > > > NO, Not So! I don't know where you read that, but I wonder if perhaps > you misread it, If not, whoever wrote that is wrong, other fish in the > tank WILL NOT induce any Angelfish to spawn. Could you please tell me > where you read this? I would tend to doubt that it woyuld be in any > well-penned book, as this kind of erroneous info has a way of getting > itself known as such as it spreads throughout the hobby. I did notice > that you advised James of this; just another case of you can't believe > all you read. If it was on a web site, I can understand that -- no one > should put complete faith in everything they read up there, and pass > it along, without knowing if it's true. > > Tetras, or any other small fish, when put with a breeding pair of any > species of substrate-sawning Cichlids are intended to draw the > attention of either one of the more aggressive partners of the pair > away from the other partner so that the least aggressive partner does > not take the full aggression of the more overbearing one. > > They (these "dither fish") act to initiate the territorial behavior of > both partners of the breesding pair so that they act in symphony with > each other towards one goal -- to keep the intruders out of the > breeding area. In this way, attention is drawn to these dither fish, > rather than each other. The pair is more apt to act in harmony rather > than one beating up on the other. This methods of using dither fish is > usually reserved for much more aggressive Cichlids. Most Angelfish > pairs do not need dither fish with them, nor will these dither fish > induce their spawning. They will spawn when they want to spawn. Most > good young pairs will spawn every eight days once they start spawning, > when allowed (when you pull the slate, to set their breeding cycle > going again). They will taper off after about 2 1/2 years of age (they > will start spawning between 7 and 8 months, usually closer to 9 > months). Ray > > ---In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>, Amber Berglund <amber@...> wrote: > > > > I've read from some breeders that some Angelfish need activity in the > > tank from other fish to help induce breeding habits, but mine don't > seem > > to have any problem with that so far, will have to see how they act > alone. > > > > Amber > > > > bill 1433 wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > Amber, > > > > > > If you hit those Angels at a wrong time the life-expediency of > > > those Tetra's will be about 5 minutes! Once you give the fish their > > > own tank, best leave it that way and save on your tetra pennies! > > > > > > Bill > > > > > > --- On Thu, 6/18/09, Amber Berglund <amber@... > > > <mailto:amber%40rose-fields.com>> wrote: > > > > > > > From: Amber Berglund <amber@... > > > <mailto:amber%40rose-fields.com>> > > > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: Sexing AngelFish? > > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > Date: Thursday, June 18, 2009, 5:09 PM > > > > Shipping freshwater fish tends to be > > > > less stressful on the fish than > > > > saltwater from what I have heard (rumors), but I don't have > > > > saltwater > > > > tanks either, so I'm not sure personally. > > > > Mine seem to go into their spawning behavior about once a > > > > month or so. I > > > > leave the eggs in the tank and when I move my 2 angel's > > > > over to their > > > > own 55 gallon I will let them raise them by themselves. > > > > Some breeders also put in faster swimming tetras to help > > > > induce breeding > > > > too, you may have a mated pair and not know it as they > > > > haven't felt the > > > > desire to breed just yet. Have you ever had any middle > > > > swimming fast > > > > fish such as tetra's in the tank with your Angel's? > > > > Silver dollars are a popular fish to put in with Angel's, > > > > but they get > > > > big (bigger than the Angel's I think), I have never had any > > > > myself. But > > > > my LFS has some in stock, LOL. > > > > > > > > Amber > > > > > > > > nicurns@... <mailto:nicurns%40bellsouth.net> > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Amber, Thanks for replying. I don't see any aggressive > > > > behavior within > > > > > the tank except between the two angels at times. It > > > > almost appears as > > > > > though they are playing!!!LOL > > > > > The only other fish in that tank are 2 cory's and a > > > > medium sized > > > > > Pleco. The angels stay to themselves as do the cory's > > > > and I rarely see > > > > > the Pleco except an occasional darting whenever > > > > entering the room. > > > > > Regarding your angels.... Once they began spawning, > > > > how often did this > > > > > re-occur? Do you allow them to care for the babies or > > > > do you remove > > > > > them to a seperate tank? > > > > > I am planning on getting another larger angel or two, > > > > to go into this > > > > > tank but just having issues finding larger ones in my > > > > area. I have > > > > > purchased marine fish over the web in the past, but > > > > have not done so > > > > > with freshwater species yet. Maybe I'll start looking > > > > into this over > > > > > the next few weeks. > > > > > > > > > > Thanks, > > > > > James S. > > > > > > > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>, Amber > > > > Berglund <amber@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > Angel's are not able to be sexed unless they are > > > > actively laying eggs > > > > > > (spawning). Their sexual organs are inside > > > > obviously ;) LOL. > > > > > > I have a mated pair of angel's and I just > > > > happened to get lucky that > > > > > > way, I started out with 2 and one died, so I > > > > replaced it with another > > > > > > and that 2nd one turned out to be female and my > > > > first was a male. > > > > > > Most people get groups of angel's and wait until > > > > they pair up to find a > > > > > > pair to mate. > > > > > > Are your angel's showing any sign of mating > > > > behavior at all? When mine > > > > > > get ready to lay eggs they will chase all the > > > > other fish to the other > > > > > > side of the tank and start cleaning a spot to lay > > > > their eggs on (while > > > > > > the other one guards for intruders the female > > > > will start to lay the > > > > > > eggs, then they take turns guarding while the > > > > male fertilizes the > > > > > eggs). > > > > > > If you haven't seen too much aggression towards > > > > your other fish and the > > > > > > other 2 teaming up together and chasing the other > > > > fish away then I'd > > > > > > have to guess you have 2 of the same sex. > > > > > > It may be hard to introduce smaller angel's at > > > > this point in time as > > > > > the > > > > > > bigger ones will pick on the smaller ones. > > > > > > I suppose you could slowly try introducing some > > > > new angel's with a tank > > > > > > divider and see how aggressive the big ones are > > > > with the divider in. If > > > > > > they are really aggressive and attack at the > > > > divider then you may have > > > > > > to wait until the smaller angel's get closer in > > > > size to the big ones, > > > > > > you can speed up that process (a little) by > > > > frequent water changes and > > > > > > feeding the young Angel's really well, just make > > > > sure to keep the water > > > > > > changes going (don't go overboard on them, once a > > > > day should me more > > > > > > than plenty if you're doing 25% changes), this > > > > helps remove the > > > > > hormones > > > > > > from the water so the fish will grow a little > > > > faster. Unless you can > > > > > > talk to the breeder some how and see if they > > > > might be willing to trade > > > > > > you a mated pair ;) > > > > > > > > > > > > Amber > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > nicurns@ wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Hello all. My name is James and I live in > > > > UpState South Carolina. I > > > > > > > have been keeping fish for more years than I > > > > would like to admit, and > > > > > > > every 5 years or so I mix everything up and > > > > change what I am keeping. > > > > > > > Currently we have a 1200-1500 gal pond that > > > > I built, and rebuilt, and > > > > > > > of course rebuilt again. I am happy with my > > > > final result for now, but > > > > > > > do keep it in the back of my head that > > > > Bigger is Better, so who > > > > > knows??? > > > > > > > We have goldfish up to 13" long with their > > > > offspring that have not > > > > > > > been taken by the Heron during the winter. I > > > > also have 2 medium size > > > > > > > butterfly Koi and over abundance of plants. > > > > > > > Indoors, we have a 58gal FW tank with a > > > > 30gal sum-filter (making > > > > > > > between 80 and 90 gal's give or take),and 2 > > > > external filters as well > > > > > > > housing 2 large Angels, 2 cory's, and a > > > > pleco. This tank was a Reef > > > > > > > tank for many years, but I am over all that > > > > work!!!!!! We also have a > > > > > > > smaller tank that have a single LionHead > > > > Goldfish that is sooo > > > > > > > friendly that he eats from your hand. He may > > > > be going to the pond for > > > > > > > the summer... > > > > > > > I've had all types of fish over the years, > > > > but never angel's until > > > > > > > around 8 months ago. I visited our LSF, and > > > > they had a tank full of > > > > > > > nickel sized babies that another customer > > > > had breed. I actually met > > > > > > > the breeder in the store, and he has Angel's > > > > and Discus. I bought > > > > > 6 of > > > > > > > the babies, and they all did great until 3 > > > > months back when something > > > > > > > went wacky and I lost one after another in a > > > > span of two weeks. Well > > > > > > > the remaining 2 are now hugh (4-5" > > > > diameter). I would like them to > > > > > > > breed or get another one to go in with them, > > > > but I don't know if I > > > > > > > have a mixed pair, two males, or two > > > > females. Does anyone have any > > > > > > > ideas on how to sex them? > > > > > > > James S.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 41000	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 6/18/2009
Subject: Re: Gonna sound like a dumb question.

Rob, The price does seem high to me also, but, then again, I am not real familiar with European pricing. Where are you located? I do have an acquaintance who is German, and lives in Germany (imagine that, a German in Germany) and can e-mail him to see if he is close to you and able to give some advice for your area. When I travel, I hit the phone book to find shops in an area that I may be staying, and while the shops may not be that good, it does give me a chance to check them out and see what fish are being carried. In Germany, you may see a lot of fish you are not familiar with from your experience on this side of the ocean, and you are likely to see higher quality fish, and commensurately higher prices. Europeans seem to want to pay for quality, unlike most Americans. A for how long fish live, it depends on the fish. For instance, koi can live to be well over 100 years old, where your betta's life span may only be 3-4 years. There are fish (annual killifish) that at a year old are very old fish, while there are a number where at 25 years, they are still young. \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Robert Mazur Sent: Thursday, June 18, 2009 4:07 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Gonna sound like a dumb question. This is going to sound like a really dumb, n00bie question, but is $70 for a 5 gallon tank with all the accessories (hood, light, filter) an appropriate price? The reason that I ask is I am stationed in Germany now and left my betta in the care of a friend of mine. I left the 1.5 gallon tank behind too. My daughter is wanting fish again and at a local store I saw a 20L (5.2 US Gal) tank for €49.95 (Euro) which is roughly $70 (give or take, depending on the conversion rate). Also, what sorts of fish get along in that size tank? And the other question is, how long do fish usually live? Lastly, how would I go about finding an aquatic shop in Germany? Anyone on this list in Europe and can shed some light on the subject. Thanks! Rob -- http://www.pbase.com/mazurgallery/ http://themazurplace.blogspot.com/ http://www.flickr.com/photos/rpmazur/ http://s19.photobucket.com/albums/b185/rpmazur/ There are people who make things happen, there are people who watch things happen, and there are people who wonder what happened. To be successful, you need to be a person who makes things happen.. James A. Lovell

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 41001	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 6/18/2009
Subject: Re: Hello....New to group and have a question

First the good news. Some Goldfish regularly change colors, with fancy goldfish being more app to doing so. Is it a long-bodied goldfish or a fancy round-bodied goldfish. Here's a page that shows many of the variants of goldfish. http://www.bristol-aquarists.org.uk/goldfish/goldfish.htm It's probably a "Common Goldfish" but I want to be sure. If it's a long-bodied common goldfish, it is not as common for them to change colors although there are calico colored long-bodied goldfish as well so anything is possible if they interbred. There is also a good possibility that you are seeing what is called melanophore migration where black pigmented cells will migrate to an injured area as part of the healing process. This can also happen with ammonia burning or other issues. Now the bad news. Your 5G tank will NOT be big enough and you will have to upgrade to a MUCH larger tank very soon if you wish to keep the goldfish healthy long term. Common goldfish should live 15-20 years and fancy goldfish around 10 years. Starting them off with the right sized tank will go a LONG way in keeping them healthy and giving them the proper room to grow. Here's my Goldfish Care Sheet which will also give you links to much more info about Goldfish Care. http://goldlenny.blogspot.com/2007/03/goldfish-care-sheet-fancy-goldfish.htm l You should also go to my "A To Z Of Fish Keeping" article http://goldlenny.blogspot.com/2007/02/to-z-of-fish-keeping-how-to-training.h tml and take one or both of the FREE online tutorials (link in the 7th paragraph of the A To Z article) that will walk you through ALL of the basics of fish keeping. Of course, you can ask LOTS of questions out here. You are likely having ammonia build up so unless or until you can get a Master Test Kit, you should be doing 25% PWC's (partial water changes) each day while he's stuck in the 5G tank. If the tank has a filter system on it, it's important to do proper filter maintenance as well. The A To Z page has a link to my article on that topic. It's important to read this article as well. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of nysportsfan45 Sent: Thursday, June 18, 2009 4:47 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Hello....New to group and have a question My son won a goldfish at a carnival..... I went out and got a small 5 gallon tank. Added the water and gravel and waited 24 hours to put the fish in. Had the fish about a week and now I noticed a black mark around his gills. Over the past 3 days the black mark got larger and darker. Can anyone tell me what that might be and what I can do to help the fish?

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 41002	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 6/18/2009
Subject: Re: Sexing AngelFish?

\\Steve//, Did you mean "old fogeys" or "grumpy old men"? LOL Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Steve Szabo Sent: Thursday, June 18, 2009 10:08 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: Sexing AngelFish? Amber, As you become more experienced, you will learn to be more discriminating with information you find on the web, in published articles, and even in books, especially when it goes against your personal experience. Ray is really a nice guy, he really is. He simply wanted a reference to the material you were passing along so he could check it out himself. The problem is that written communication does not always come across as you mean it to. Since I do know Ray (us old fogeys in the hobby need to stick together), I can read the message as he probably meant it., instead of reading it verbatim as you have. You need to learn to take what is said in e-mail with a little grain of salt rather than taking offense immediately. If ray meant to cut you down, believe me, you would have known it. \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Amber Berglund Sent: Thursday, June 18, 2009 9:46 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: Sexing AngelFish? I don't hold onto all the links I read like Lenny does, so I have no idea what breeder site on Angel's I read that on. I don't mind being corrected Ray, but sometimes I wish you weren't quite so mean about it sometimes, I didn't see you offering him any help on getting his Angel's to breed and I was doing my best with what info I have read on them, and since I have no problems getting mine to spawn I was trying to pass on tips that I had read elsewhere. If I was writing a paper on breeding Angel's then I could understand asking for all of my sources and page info but I'm just trying to help someone out with the info that I had found when I was researching. Guess I will just stick to the info that I personally have experienced since I seem to be wrong so often when I try to pass on info that I've read. Amber Raymond Wetzel wrote: > > > NO, Not So! I don't know where you read that, but I wonder if perhaps > you misread it, If not, whoever wrote that is wrong, other fish in the > tank WILL NOT induce any Angelfish to spawn. Could you please tell me > where you read this? I would tend to doubt that it woyuld be in any > well-penned book, as this kind of erroneous info has a way of getting > itself known as such as it spreads throughout the hobby. I did notice > that you advised James of this; just another case of you can't believe > all you read. If it was on a web site, I can understand that -- no one > should put complete faith in everything they read up there, and pass > it along, without knowing if it's true. > > Tetras, or any other small fish, when put with a breeding pair of any > species of substrate-sawning Cichlids are intended to draw the > attention of either one of the more aggressive partners of the pair > away from the other partner so that the least aggressive partner does > not take the full aggression of the more overbearing one. > > They (these "dither fish") act to initiate the territorial behavior of > both partners of the breesding pair so that they act in symphony with > each other towards one goal -- to keep the intruders out of the > breeding area. In this way, attention is drawn to these dither fish, > rather than each other. The pair is more apt to act in harmony rather > than one beating up on the other. This methods of using dither fish is > usually reserved for much more aggressive Cichlids. Most Angelfish > pairs do not need dither fish with them, nor will these dither fish > induce their spawning. They will spawn when they want to spawn. Most > good young pairs will spawn every eight days once they start spawning, > when allowed (when you pull the slate, to set their breeding cycle > going again). They will taper off after about 2 1/2 years of age (they > will start spawning between 7 and 8 months, usually closer to 9 > months). Ray > > ---In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>, Amber Berglund <amber@...> wrote: > > > > I've read from some breeders that some Angelfish need activity in the > > tank from other fish to help induce breeding habits, but mine don't > seem > > to have any problem with that so far, will have to see how they act > alone. > > > > Amber > > > > bill 1433 wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > Amber, > > > > > > If you hit those Angels at a wrong time the life-expediency of > > > those Tetra's will be about 5 minutes! Once you give the fish their > > > own tank, best leave it that way and save on your tetra pennies! > > > > > > Bill > > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 41003	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 6/18/2009
Subject: Sea dragon baby surprise

A rare weedy sea dragon at the Georgia Aquarium is pregnant for only the third time ever at a U.S. aquarium, say aquarium officials. But don't look for the expectant mom . . . http://www.ajc.com/services/content/printedition/2008/06/13/seadragon.ht ml TinyURL: http://tinyurl.com/m9r24a \\Steve//

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 41004	From: Raymond Wetzel	Date: 6/18/2009
Subject: Re: Sexing AngelFish?

What that "grumpy" stuff (LOL). --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@...> wrote: > > \\Steve//, > > Did you mean "old fogeys" or "grumpy old men"? > > LOL > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right > side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) > > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On > Behalf Of Steve Szabo > Sent: Thursday, June 18, 2009 10:08 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: Sexing AngelFish? > > Amber, > > As you become more experienced, you will learn to be more discriminating > with information you find on the web, in published articles, and even in > books, especially when it goes against your personal experience. > > Ray is really a nice guy, he really is. He simply wanted a reference to the > material you were passing along so he could check it out himself. > The problem is that written communication does not always come across as you > mean it to. Since I do know Ray (us old fogeys in the hobby need to stick > together), I can read the message as he probably meant it., instead of > reading it verbatim as you have. You need to learn to take what is said in > e-mail with a little grain of salt rather than taking offense immediately. > If ray meant to cut you down, believe me, you would have known it. > > \\Steve// > > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] > On Behalf Of Amber Berglund > Sent: Thursday, June 18, 2009 9:46 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: Sexing AngelFish? > > I don't hold onto all the links I read like Lenny does, so I have no idea > what breeder site on Angel's I read that on. > I don't mind being corrected Ray, but sometimes I wish you weren't quite > > so mean about it sometimes, I didn't see you offering him any help on > getting his Angel's to breed and I was doing my best with what info I have > read on them, and since I have no problems getting mine to spawn I was > trying to pass on tips that I had read elsewhere. > If I was writing a paper on breeding Angel's then I could understand asking > for all of my sources and page info but I'm just trying to help someone out > with the info that I had found when I was researching. Guess > > I will just stick to the info that I personally have experienced since I > > seem to be wrong so often when I try to pass on info that I've read. > > Amber > > Raymond Wetzel wrote: > > > > > > NO, Not So! I don't know where you read that, but I wonder if perhaps > > you misread it, If not, whoever wrote that is wrong, other fish in the > > > tank WILL NOT induce any Angelfish to spawn. Could you please tell me > > where you read this? I would tend to doubt that it woyuld be in any > > well-penned book, as this kind of erroneous info has a way of getting > > itself known as such as it spreads throughout the hobby. I did notice > > that you advised James of this; just another case of you can't believe > > > all you read. If it was on a web site, I can understand that -- no one > > > should put complete faith in everything they read up there, and pass > > it along, without knowing if it's true. > > > > Tetras, or any other small fish, when put with a breeding pair of any > > species of substrate-sawning Cichlids are intended to draw the > > attention of either one of the more aggressive partners of the pair > > away from the other partner so that the least aggressive partner does > > not take the full aggression of the more overbearing one. > > > > They (these "dither fish") act to initiate the territorial behavior of > > > both partners of the breesding pair so that they act in symphony with > > each other towards one goal -- to keep the intruders out of the > > breeding area. In this way, attention is drawn to these dither fish, > > rather than each other. The pair is more apt to act in harmony rather > > than one beating up on the other. This methods of using dither fish is > > > usually reserved for much more aggressive Cichlids. Most Angelfish > > pairs do not need dither fish with them, nor will these dither fish > > induce their spawning. They will spawn when they want to spawn. Most > > good young pairs will spawn every eight days once they start spawning, > > > when allowed (when you pull the slate, to set their breeding cycle > > going again). They will taper off after about 2 1/2 years of age (they > > > will start spawning between 7 and 8 months, usually closer to 9 > > months). Ray > > > > ---In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>, Amber Berglund <amber@> > wrote: > > > > > > I've read from some breeders that some Angelfish need activity in > the > > > tank from other fish to help induce breeding habits, but mine don't > > seem > > > to have any problem with that so far, will have to see how they act > > alone. > > > > > > Amber > > > > > > bill 1433 wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Amber, > > > > > > > > If you hit those Angels at a wrong time the life-expediency of > > > > those Tetra's will be about 5 minutes! Once you give the fish > their > > > > own tank, best leave it that way and save on your tetra pennies! > > > > > > > > Bill > > > > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 41005	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 6/18/2009
Subject: Ugh, now I no longer have any rams left :(

Found my last ram dead this evening, I'm pretty sure it was the Angel's fault. They've gone into spawning again and are nasty little buggers. I was messing with the Rena xp4 and the male nipped me quite good, shocked me because I wasn't looking and didn't expect it, when I jerked my arm out of the tank I scared Spike (my severum) and he ran into hiding, LOL. I urged the hubby to finish welding my stand together so I can set up the 55 gallon for the Angel's, I already have their cycled media in the Rena Xp 4 waiting to be transfered into the other filter that came with the 55 gallon. Getting tired of them picking on all of the other fish, I'm sure everyone will be glad when they go ;) I think I know what I'm going to be ordering next on my fish order (Rams, and I think I want to get some german ones this time so I can see what they really look like in person, all the pictures seem to look so similar between the bolivian's and the german blue rams). Amber

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 41006	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 6/18/2009
Subject: Re: Sexing AngelFish?

So... which one of y'all is Jack Lemmon and which one is Walter Matthau? http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0107050/ We'll let Amber play Ann-Marget. ;-) http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Lyl9Ki8ygt4 At least I didn't call y'all "grumpier old men". ;-) http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0113228/ LOL Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Raymond Wetzel Sent: Thursday, June 18, 2009 11:06 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Sexing AngelFish? What that "grumpy" stuff (LOL). --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@...> wrote: > > \\Steve//, > > Did you mean "old fogeys" or "grumpy old men"? > > LOL > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles > referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically > under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) > > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] > On Behalf Of Steve Szabo > Sent: Thursday, June 18, 2009 10:08 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: Sexing AngelFish? > > Amber, > > As you become more experienced, you will learn to be more > discriminating with information you find on the web, in published > articles, and even in books, especially when it goes against your personal experience. > > Ray is really a nice guy, he really is. He simply wanted a reference > to the material you were passing along so he could check it out himself. > The problem is that written communication does not always come across > as you mean it to. Since I do know Ray (us old fogeys in the hobby > need to stick together), I can read the message as he probably meant > it., instead of reading it verbatim as you have. You need to learn to > take what is said in e-mail with a little grain of salt rather than taking offense immediately. > If ray meant to cut you down, believe me, you would have known it. > > \\Steve// > > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] > On Behalf Of Amber Berglund > Sent: Thursday, June 18, 2009 9:46 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: Sexing AngelFish? > > I don't hold onto all the links I read like Lenny does, so I have no > idea what breeder site on Angel's I read that on. > I don't mind being corrected Ray, but sometimes I wish you weren't > quite > > so mean about it sometimes, I didn't see you offering him any help on > getting his Angel's to breed and I was doing my best with what info I > have read on them, and since I have no problems getting mine to spawn > I was trying to pass on tips that I had read elsewhere. > If I was writing a paper on breeding Angel's then I could understand > asking for all of my sources and page info but I'm just trying to help > someone out with the info that I had found when I was researching. > Guess > > I will just stick to the info that I personally have experienced since > I > > seem to be wrong so often when I try to pass on info that I've read. > > Amber > > Raymond Wetzel wrote: > > > > > > NO, Not So! I don't know where you read that, but I wonder if > > perhaps you misread it, If not, whoever wrote that is wrong, other > > fish in the > > > tank WILL NOT induce any Angelfish to spawn. Could you please tell > > me where you read this? I would tend to doubt that it woyuld be in > > any well-penned book, as this kind of erroneous info has a way of > > getting itself known as such as it spreads throughout the hobby. I > > did notice that you advised James of this; just another case of you > > can't believe > > > all you read. If it was on a web site, I can understand that -- no > > one > > > should put complete faith in everything they read up there, and pass > > it along, without knowing if it's true. > > > > Tetras, or any other small fish, when put with a breeding pair of > > any species of substrate-sawning Cichlids are intended to draw the > > attention of either one of the more aggressive partners of the pair > > away from the other partner so that the least aggressive partner > > does not take the full aggression of the more overbearing one. > > > > They (these "dither fish") act to initiate the territorial behavior > > of > > > both partners of the breesding pair so that they act in symphony > > with each other towards one goal -- to keep the intruders out of the > > breeding area. In this way, attention is drawn to these dither fish, > > rather than each other. The pair is more apt to act in harmony > > rather than one beating up on the other. This methods of using > > dither fish is > > > usually reserved for much more aggressive Cichlids. Most Angelfish > > pairs do not need dither fish with them, nor will these dither fish > > induce their spawning. They will spawn when they want to spawn. Most > > good young pairs will spawn every eight days once they start > > spawning, > > > when allowed (when you pull the slate, to set their breeding cycle > > going again). They will taper off after about 2 1/2 years of age > > (they > > > will start spawning between 7 and 8 months, usually closer to 9 > > months). Ray > > > > ---In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>, Amber Berglund <amber@> > wrote: > > > > > > I've read from some breeders that some Angelfish need activity in > the > > > tank from other fish to help induce breeding habits, but mine > > > don't > > seem > > > to have any problem with that so far, will have to see how they > > > act > > alone. > > > > > > Amber > > > > > > bill 1433 wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Amber, > > > > > > > > If you hit those Angels at a wrong time the life-expediency of > > > > those Tetra's will be about 5 minutes! Once you give the fish > their > > > > own tank, best leave it that way and save on your tetra pennies! > > > > > > > > Bill > > > > > ------------------------------------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the home page. Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com to receive the digest, which includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com for the No E-Mail option where you will still be able to read messages on the group and post replies. Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com to receive individual e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 41007	From: nicurns@bellsouth.net	Date: 6/18/2009
Subject: Re: Sexing AngelFish?

Jim, Maybe I'll try that...LOL/ But you know what, my wife is one of the biggest Braves fans that I know, so that might not always work. James S. --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Jim Pat." <Jpateson@...> wrote: > > James, > > That is some pond! I have found the best way to sex any fish is to put a picture of your favorite football team on the right side of the tank, all the male fish will to there.... ;) > Let me know if I can help you with anything else.... > > Jim >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 41008	From: nicurns@bellsouth.net	Date: 6/18/2009
Subject: Re: Sexing AngelFish?

Thanks for the information Ray. I'm interested in all the expertise I can get. Angels are new to me, and they are very beautiful fish. When keeping freshwater fish in the past, I always thought these fish were too hard to keep and required more experience as an aquariumist. After years of dropping too much money into the reef tank, this however is the total opposite,,,well so far...:) James S. --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Raymond Wetzel" <sevenspringss@...> wrote: > > NO, Not So! I don't know where you read that, but I wonder if perhaps you misread it, If not, whoever wrote that is wrong, other fish in the tank WILL NOT induce any Angelfish to spawn. Could you please tell me where you read this? I would tend to doubt that it woyuld be in any well-penned book, as this kind of erroneous info has a way of getting itself known as such as it spreads throughout the hobby. I did notice that you advised James of this; just another case of you can't believe all you read. If it was on a web site, I can understand that -- no one should put complete faith in everything they read up there, and pass it along, without knowing if it's true. > > Tetras, or any other small fish, when put with a breeding pair of any species of substrate-sawning Cichlids are intended to draw the attention of either one of the more aggressive partners of the pair away from the other partner so that the least aggressive partner does not take the full aggression of the more overbearing one. > > They (these "dither fish") act to initiate the territorial behavior of both partners of the breesding pair so that they act in symphony with each other towards one goal -- to keep the intruders out of the breeding area. In this way, attention is drawn to these dither fish, rather than each other. The pair is more apt to act in harmony rather than one beating up on the other. This methods of using dither fish is usually reserved for much more aggressive Cichlids. Most Angelfish pairs do not need dither fish with them, nor will these dither fish induce their spawning. They will spawn when they want to spawn. Most good young pairs will spawn every eight days once they start spawning, when allowed (when you pull the slate, to set their breeding cycle going again). They will taper off after about 2 1/2 years of age (they will start spawning between 7 and 8 months, usually closer to 9 months). Ray > > > ---In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, Amber Berglund <amber@> wrote: > > > > I've read from some breeders that some Angelfish need activity in the > > tank from other fish to help induce breeding habits, but mine don't seem > > to have any problem with that so far, will have to see how they act alone. > > > > Amber > > > > bill 1433 wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > Amber, > > > > > > If you hit those Angels at a wrong time the life-expediency of > > > those Tetra's will be about 5 minutes! Once you give the fish their > > > own tank, best leave it that way and save on your tetra pennies! > > > > > > Bill > > > > > > --- On Thu, 6/18/09, Amber Berglund <amber@ > > > <mailto:amber%40rose-fields.com>> wrote: > > > > > > > From: Amber Berglund <amber@ > > > <mailto:amber%40rose-fields.com>> > > > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: Sexing AngelFish? > > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > Date: Thursday, June 18, 2009, 5:09 PM > > > > Shipping freshwater fish tends to be > > > > less stressful on the fish than > > > > saltwater from what I have heard (rumors), but I don't have > > > > saltwater > > > > tanks either, so I'm not sure personally. > > > > Mine seem to go into their spawning behavior about once a > > > > month or so. I > > > > leave the eggs in the tank and when I move my 2 angel's > > > > over to their > > > > own 55 gallon I will let them raise them by themselves. > > > > Some breeders also put in faster swimming tetras to help > > > > induce breeding > > > > too, you may have a mated pair and not know it as they > > > > haven't felt the > > > > desire to breed just yet. Have you ever had any middle > > > > swimming fast > > > > fish such as tetra's in the tank with your Angel's? > > > > Silver dollars are a popular fish to put in with Angel's, > > > > but they get > > > > big (bigger than the Angel's I think), I have never had any > > > > myself. But > > > > my LFS has some in stock, LOL. > > > > > > > > Amber > > > > > > > > nicurns@ <mailto:nicurns%40bellsouth.net> > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Amber, Thanks for replying. I don't see any aggressive > > > > behavior within > > > > > the tank except between the two angels at times. It > > > > almost appears as > > > > > though they are playing!!!LOL > > > > > The only other fish in that tank are 2 cory's and a > > > > medium sized > > > > > Pleco. The angels stay to themselves as do the cory's > > > > and I rarely see > > > > > the Pleco except an occasional darting whenever > > > > entering the room. > > > > > Regarding your angels.... Once they began spawning, > > > > how often did this > > > > > re-occur? Do you allow them to care for the babies or > > > > do you remove > > > > > them to a seperate tank? > > > > > I am planning on getting another larger angel or two, > > > > to go into this > > > > > tank but just having issues finding larger ones in my > > > > area. I have > > > > > purchased marine fish over the web in the past, but > > > > have not done so > > > > > with freshwater species yet. Maybe I'll start looking > > > > into this over > > > > > the next few weeks. > > > > > > > > > > Thanks, > > > > > James S. > > > > > > > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>, Amber > > > > Berglund <amber@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > Angel's are not able to be sexed unless they are > > > > actively laying eggs > > > > > > (spawning). Their sexual organs are inside > > > > obviously ;) LOL. > > > > > > I have a mated pair of angel's and I just > > > > happened to get lucky that > > > > > > way, I started out with 2 and one died, so I > > > > replaced it with another > > > > > > and that 2nd one turned out to be female and my > > > > first was a male. > > > > > > Most people get groups of angel's and wait until > > > > they pair up to find a > > > > > > pair to mate. > > > > > > Are your angel's showing any sign of mating > > > > behavior at all? When mine > > > > > > get ready to lay eggs they will chase all the > > > > other fish to the other > > > > > > side of the tank and start cleaning a spot to lay > > > > their eggs on (while > > > > > > the other one guards for intruders the female > > > > will start to lay the > > > > > > eggs, then they take turns guarding while the > > > > male fertilizes the > > > > > eggs). > > > > > > If you haven't seen too much aggression towards > > > > your other fish and the > > > > > > other 2 teaming up together and chasing the other > > > > fish away then I'd > > > > > > have to guess you have 2 of the same sex. > > > > > > It may be hard to introduce smaller angel's at > > > > this point in time as > > > > > the > > > > > > bigger ones will pick on the smaller ones. > > > > > > I suppose you could slowly try introducing some > > > > new angel's with a tank > > > > > > divider and see how aggressive the big ones are > > > > with the divider in. If > > > > > > they are really aggressive and attack at the > > > > divider then you may have > > > > > > to wait until the smaller angel's get closer in > > > > size to the big ones, > > > > > > you can speed up that process (a little) by > > > > frequent water changes and > > > > > > feeding the young Angel's really well, just make > > > > sure to keep the water > > > > > > changes going (don't go overboard on them, once a > > > > day should me more > > > > > > than plenty if you're doing 25% changes), this > > > > helps remove the > > > > > hormones > > > > > > from the water so the fish will grow a little > > > > faster. Unless you can > > > > > > talk to the breeder some how and see if they > > > > might be willing to trade > > > > > > you a mated pair ;) > > > > > > > > > > > > Amber > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > nicurns@ wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Hello all. My name is James and I live in > > > > UpState South Carolina. I > > > > > > > have been keeping fish for more years than I > > > > would like to admit, and > > > > > > > every 5 years or so I mix everything up and > > > > change what I am keeping. > > > > > > > Currently we have a 1200-1500 gal pond that > > > > I built, and rebuilt, and > > > > > > > of course rebuilt again. I am happy with my > > > > final result for now, but > > > > > > > do keep it in the back of my head that > > > > Bigger is Better, so who > > > > > knows??? > > > > > > > We have goldfish up to 13" long with their > > > > offspring that have not > > > > > > > been taken by the Heron during the winter. I > > > > also have 2 medium size > > > > > > > butterfly Koi and over abundance of plants. > > > > > > > Indoors, we have a 58gal FW tank with a > > > > 30gal sum-filter (making > > > > > > > between 80 and 90 gal's give or take),and 2 > > > > external filters as well > > > > > > > housing 2 large Angels, 2 cory's, and a > > > > pleco. This tank was a Reef > > > > > > > tank for many years, but I am over all that > > > > work!!!!!! We also have a > > > > > > > smaller tank that have a single LionHead > > > > Goldfish that is sooo > > > > > > > friendly that he eats from your hand. He may > > > > be going to the pond for > > > > > > > the summer... > > > > > > > I've had all types of fish over the years, > > > > but never angel's until > > > > > > > around 8 months ago. I visited our LSF, and > > > > they had a tank full of > > > > > > > nickel sized babies that another customer > > > > had breed. I actually met > > > > > > > the breeder in the store, and he has Angel's > > > > and Discus. I bought > > > > > 6 of > > > > > > > the babies, and they all did great until 3 > > > > months back when something > > > > > > > went wacky and I lost one after another in a > > > > span of two weeks. Well > > > > > > > the remaining 2 are now hugh (4-5" > > > > diameter). I would like them to > > > > > > > breed or get another one to go in with them, > > > > but I don't know if I > > > > > > > have a mixed pair, two males, or two > > > > females. Does anyone have any > > > > > > > ideas on how to sex them? > > > > > > > James S. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ------------------------------------ > > > > > > > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when > > > > replying, Thank You. > > > > ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> > > > > ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> > > > > PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is > > > > NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of > > > > the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new > > > > subject (was re: old subject)" <- > > > > <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. > > > > , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. > > > > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. > > > > > > > > If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of > > > > unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by > > > > clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the home page. > > > > > > > > Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com > > > <mailto:aquaticlife-digest%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > to receive the digest, which includes up to 25 posts at a > > > > time in a single email > > > > > > > > Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com > > > <mailto:aquaticlife-nomail%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > for the No E-Mail option where you will still be able to > > > > read messages on the group and post replies. > > > > > > > > Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com > > > <mailto:aquaticlife-normal%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > to receive individual e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > > > > > > > mailto:AquaticLife-fullfeatured@yahoogroups.com > > > <mailto:AquaticLife-fullfeatured%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 41009	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 6/18/2009
Subject: Re: Sexing AngelFish?

I don't know about Jim's fish but my male fish are more likely to head to the side of the tank where the cheerleaders picture is at... and it doesn't even have to be our favorite team's cheerleaders... the SaintSations! ;-) I guess that's why I'm not a big baseball watching fan... no cheerleaders. LOL Why don't they have cheerleaders anyhow? Oh yeah... I guess I should mention the Miami Dolphins too! Didn't want to get too far off topic. ;-) Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of nicurns@... Sent: Thursday, June 18, 2009 11:35 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Sexing AngelFish? Jim, Maybe I'll try that...LOL/ But you know what, my wife is one of the biggest Braves fans that I know, so that might not always work. James S. --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Jim Pat." <Jpateson@...> wrote: > > James, > > That is some pond! I have found the best way to sex any fish is to put > a picture of your favorite football team on the right side of the tank, all the male fish will to there.... ;) Let me know if I can help you with anything else.... > > Jim

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 41010	From: nicurns@bellsouth.net	Date: 6/18/2009
Subject: Re: Sea dragon baby surprise

They need to learn more about the poor whale sharks they keep trying to keep. Animals that size just do not need to be kept in captivity in my opinion of course. The Ga Aquarium is nice, but I just don't care for the flow (traffic flow) within the building. And this aquarium is listed as the largest in the U.S., but from a visitors perspective it doesn't appear so. The last time there I questioned one the workers at the Whale shark exhibit and was told the tank inwhich these animals are kept is the largest in the U.S. indoors, but only a end view is seen by us. James S. --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Steve Szabo" <steve@...> wrote: > > A rare weedy sea dragon at the Georgia Aquarium is pregnant for only the > third time ever at a U.S. aquarium, say aquarium officials. But don't > look for the expectant mom . . . > > http://www.ajc.com/services/content/printedition/2008/06/13/seadragon.ht > ml > TinyURL: http://tinyurl.com/m9r24a > > \\Steve// >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 41011	From: ladyjadewindrunner	Date: 6/18/2009
Subject: Re: Hello!!

Pam - I live a good little bit from you out in Lake Station, kinda by Gary/Hobart. But I'm always good to hear about cheap angels! lol. James - I used to have four tanks, my 20 gallon main tank which was where the creme de la creme went(and typically happened to be my favorites hehe), two ten gallons for breeding purposes when I would have a particular strain I was trying to breed for the 'virgin' fish and her male, and a five gallon I kept for the various fry. Right now I have reduced to just my 20 gal. due to the economy causing financial constraints on my electric bill as well as losing most of my guppies to aforementioned Whirling Disease. If you are trying to deal with the fry to constantly repopulate your tank your best bet would be a breeder net (depending on the size of the tank, best suited for a 10+gallon though there are some really small ones out there) or a small, separate tank. A lot of times with Guppy fry, they tend to die off due to being eaten or bitten at by larger adult guppies, and the vast majority will often die anyways. In every batch of fry, out of anywhere from 30 to 60 fry I only have two to five that make it to adulthood without either dying or having to be culled due to deformity(which is typically a spinal deformity, which is quite obvious to spot).If ALL of the guppies die off, though, your water conditions may not be right. Even though most guppies can live through just about anything, the fry tend to be very sensitive to water parameters and if your ammonia or nitrites are too high, that will kill them - and likely the adults, too. If you don't have one I would recommend getting a water testing kit from API, it has its own nifty little vials and everything to hold the water samples and is a lot more convenient than taking it to the pet store as often as I would have to. Was there anything done to the tank before they died such as a large water change or a drastic change in temperature?

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 41012	From: Raymond Wetzel	Date: 6/18/2009
Subject: Re: Sexing AngelFish?

Hi Amber, Sorry I could not respond any sooner. After I left my last message to you this past evening, I immediately had to get to our monthly meeting (North Jersey Aquarium Society), and have just returned, dropping Lenny a laugh a few moments ago. Thank you for letting me know that you found this information through a link (on the internet), as I had expected. Before I go any further, please know I am not trying to be mean when when correcting you. This is NOT my purpose here, as it serves NO purpose whatsoever. I would hope you see me as \\Steve// describes me -- Thank you \\Steve// for an accurate portrayal of my demeanor in trying to get some points across here. Amber, I mean you no ill will, nor am I intending to pick on you, but mearly attempting to point out some errors. I was about to write something along these lines when you first got upset on June 8th, when I corrected you, and again, I meant no ill will. As you apologized later the same day for being snappy, I let it go at that, but now it appears as though we need to understand each other more. I am not putting you down, even if you may feel as though this is what I'm trying to do. I thoroughly enjoy most of your posts -- I see you as trying to be helpful, and most of the time you're accurate. Some of those times when you're not, the mistakes are to small for me to intercede. You are not the only one whom I read carefully, or whom I watch for any errors as I read these posts, but you are one of the few non-moderators who is giving advice and therefore who sometimes posts more than most other non-moderators, so naturally, I would be reading more of you. I don't always have the time to reply, and I APPRECIATE your offering what help you know. You do seem to have a fair knowledge of this hobby, yet I hope you realize that everyone (including yourself) has their limits. Nobody can know all there is to know about this hobby, and I know you realize that. This goes for me as well. But when one extends themself beyond what they know, they themselves do not know if they're giving accurate information or not, and it's not fair to the other members here to be told erroneous information when it hasn't been checked for accuracy. I may be mistaken, but the tone of your last sentence here would lead me to believe you are upset and are saying this in anger (please correct me if I'm wrong -- I hope I am). Actually, unless the facts are otherwise known to be correct, it IS best for ANYONE to stick just to what they have personally experienced -- rather than to give out information which may be detrimental or misleading to some other member's fish maintenance. Like myself, or like ANYONE else here, Lenny (as an example) can't know everything about fish, but what he gathers from other sites, he KNOWS to be correct. There is part of the difference between one who takes info from websites unknowingly, and one who knows what websites to take from because he knows they're correct. Lenny's a distinct asset here (and I'm not trying to say you're not). You've obviously learned a lot, and with it, your knowledge is also an asset -- but I hoping you see your limits. Believe me, I appreciate what you're doing, as I don't always have the time to write even if I do oversee most of the stuff. Others here, and I won't name them all except to say that you know them as Moderators (\\Steve//, Mike, Harry, etc. -- and myself) may not always choose to rely quite as much on known websites; we tend to rely on the experience we've fortunately gained in this hobby, to be able to give first-hand knowledge to our members. If I haven't gained enough knowledge about this hobby in the 62 years I've been in it to be able to advise with confidence, as does any of the other Moderators, then I think we better just hang it up. You are gaining in fish knowledge, this I can see, and am pleased for it. If you would like, I would be more than pleased to give you all the information I have on any fish subject, to the limit of what I know if there's anything that would help you. This is the purpose for all of us Moderators being on here. I would like to just go back earlier this month for a brief while, to try to make you aware of something that I believe you missed. In going back to 6/8 (11:16 AM) -- Subject: Help! I think I have white spot -- you said "I was quoting from a link I posted, which said that many Loaches don't like heat and salt (especially salt." Okay, I went up to that link and found this under its heading "Chemical Treatment" -- "(3) gradually increase the water temperature over a period of 24 hours to 86F (30C)." If Loaches do not like heat, why is this link recommending to raise it to 86F ? The link does go on, however, to state "This is the Maxiumum tolerable range for Loaches . . . (4) Dose the tank with Ich Medication - DO NOT add salt." (Your original post of this was 6/7, 11:51 PM) I'm trying to point out here that despite your saying that Loaches don't like heat, the very link you got this from recommends treating the with heat -- to 86F. The link is wrong in stating that this is their maximum range, as Loaches can tolerate heat up to at least 92F, but you are not expected to know this. The links statement on adding medications to the tank after reaching 86F, is totally unnecessary, but again, I'm not expecting you to know this. But the heat alone will prevent the Ich from reproducing at this temperature. Granted, salt might help, but as they (and you) correctly say, Loaches don't like salt. The salt might might it a bit more difficult for the Ichh to survive, but one major benefit would have been to promote a heavier slime coat on the fish to make it more difficult for the Ich to get to the fish's skin -- if it could have been used with Loaches (which it can't). I would like to point out, only for demonstration purposes, a message that you posted on 6/9 (at 1:27 AM) stating "Don't change the temperature more than two degrees daily." If I had wanted to be mean and jump all over you for this, I could have done so at the time -- as this is wrong. The link that you referred us all to on treating Ich says to raise the temperature to 86F over 24 hours. It's presumed previously that the temperature was most probably "normal" perhaps at 78 o (maybe 80 o, but that's stretching it) -- so that's a jump of 8 degrees in 24 hours. This is one of the errors that I consider minor, but shows that it could delay the treatment unnecessarily for a good number of days (up to 4 days), possibly leading to the deaths of some fish. I'm not sure, but perhaps you may have confused the allowed temperature fluctuation (rise) of no more than 2 degrees with the allowed pH fluctuation of no more than 0.2 in 24 hours. Again, PLEASE know that I am not picking on you, but I would be negligent in my responsibilities as one of the Moderators here if I allowed such mistakes to be posted without correcting them, as some bad information can be harmful to other members' fish. Know -- that I would never spend this time if I didn't CARE -- both what you (or anyone else) writes, and the information that the members receive. I see you as an extremely enthusiastic hobbyist; please don't give up posting, but post what you know. Oh, I did not reply further, on how to sex Angels, as I did not want to upset you having it look as though I was being rough on you again. I will post on what to look for in the differences in Angels' sex in the morning, after I get some shut eye. Ray P.S.: As I've often stated, you can't believe everything you read on these websites (unless you know them to be true), as ANYONE can create a website making it look as though he knows more the God about fish, when in reality he may only know how to cook fish. --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, Amber Berglund <amber@...> wrote: > > I don't hold onto all the links I read like Lenny does, so I have no > idea what breeder site on Angel's I read that on. > I don't mind being corrected Ray, but sometimes I wish you weren't quite > so mean about it sometimes, I didn't see you offering him any help on > getting his Angel's to breed and I was doing my best with what info I > have read on them, and since I have no problems getting mine to spawn I > was trying to pass on tips that I had read elsewhere. > If I was writing a paper on breeding Angel's then I could understand > asking for all of my sources and page info but I'm just trying to help > someone out with the info that I had found when I was researching. Guess > I will just stick to the info that I personally have experienced since I > seem to be wrong so often when I try to pass on info that I've read. > > Amber > > Raymond Wetzel wrote: > > > > > > NO, Not So! I don't know where you read that, but I wonder if perhaps > > you misread it, If not, whoever wrote that is wrong, other fish in the > > tank WILL NOT induce any Angelfish to spawn. Could you please tell me > > where you read this? I would tend to doubt that it woyuld be in any > > well-penned book, as this kind of erroneous info has a way of getting > > itself known as such as it spreads throughout the hobby. I did notice > > that you advised James of this; just another case of you can't believe > > all you read. If it was on a web site, I can understand that -- no one > > should put complete faith in everything they read up there, and pass > > it along, without knowing if it's true. > > > > Tetras, or any other small fish, when put with a breeding pair of any > > species of substrate-sawning Cichlids are intended to draw the > > attention of either one of the more aggressive partners of the pair > > away from the other partner so that the least aggressive partner does > > not take the full aggression of the more overbearing one. > > > > They (these "dither fish") act to initiate the territorial behavior of > > both partners of the breesding pair so that they act in symphony with > > each other towards one goal -- to keep the intruders out of the > > breeding area. In this way, attention is drawn to these dither fish, > > rather than each other. The pair is more apt to act in harmony rather > > than one beating up on the other. This methods of using dither fish is > > usually reserved for much more aggressive Cichlids. Most Angelfish > > pairs do not need dither fish with them, nor will these dither fish > > induce their spawning. They will spawn when they want to spawn. Most > > good young pairs will spawn every eight days once they start spawning, > > when allowed (when you pull the slate, to set their breeding cycle > > going again). They will taper off after about 2 1/2 years of age (they > > will start spawning between 7 and 8 months, usually closer to 9 > > months). Ray > > > > ---In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>, Amber Berglund <amber@> wrote: > > > > > > I've read from some breeders that some Angelfish need activity in the > > > tank from other fish to help induce breeding habits, but mine don't > > seem > > > to have any problem with that so far, will have to see how they act > > alone. > > > > > > Amber > > > > > > bill 1433 wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Amber, > > > > > > > > If you hit those Angels at a wrong time the life-expediency of > > > > those Tetra's will be about 5 minutes! Once you give the fish their > > > > own tank, best leave it that way and save on your tetra pennies! > > > > > > > > Bill > > > > > > > > --- On Thu, 6/18/09, Amber Berglund <amber@ > > > > <mailto:amber%40rose-fields.com>> wrote: > > > > > > > > > From: Amber Berglund <amber@ > > > > <mailto:amber%40rose-fields.com>> > > > > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: Sexing AngelFish? > > > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > Date: Thursday, June 18, 2009, 5:09 PM > > > > > Shipping freshwater fish tends to be > > > > > less stressful on the fish than > > > > > saltwater from what I have heard (rumors), but I don't have > > > > > saltwater > > > > > tanks either, so I'm not sure personally. > > > > > Mine seem to go into their spawning behavior about once a > > > > > month or so. I > > > > > leave the eggs in the tank and when I move my 2 angel's > > > > > over to their > > > > > own 55 gallon I will let them raise them by themselves. > > > > > Some breeders also put in faster swimming tetras to help > > > > > induce breeding > > > > > too, you may have a mated pair and not know it as they > > > > > haven't felt the > > > > > desire to breed just yet. Have you ever had any middle > > > > > swimming fast > > > > > fish such as tetra's in the tank with your Angel's? > > > > > Silver dollars are a popular fish to put in with Angel's, > > > > > but they get > > > > > big (bigger than the Angel's I think), I have never had any > > > > > myself. But > > > > > my LFS has some in stock, LOL. > > > > > > > > > > Amber > > > > > > > > > > nicurns@ <mailto:nicurns%40bellsouth.net> > > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Amber, Thanks for replying. I don't see any aggressive > > > > > behavior within > > > > > > the tank except between the two angels at times. It > > > > > almost appears as > > > > > > though they are playing!!!LOL > > > > > > The only other fish in that tank are 2 cory's and a > > > > > medium sized > > > > > > Pleco. The angels stay to themselves as do the cory's > > > > > and I rarely see > > > > > > the Pleco except an occasional darting whenever > > > > > entering the room. > > > > > > Regarding your angels.... Once they began spawning, > > > > > how often did this > > > > > > re-occur? Do you allow them to care for the babies or > > > > > do you remove > > > > > > them to a seperate tank? > > > > > > I am planning on getting another larger angel or two, > > > > > to go into this > > > > > > tank but just having issues finding larger ones in my > > > > > area. I have > > > > > > purchased marine fish over the web in the past, but > > > > > have not done so > > > > > > with freshwater species yet. Maybe I'll start looking > > > > > into this over > > > > > > the next few weeks. > > > > > > > > > > > > Thanks, > > > > > > James S. > > > > > > > > > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>, Amber > > > > > Berglund <amber@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Angel's are not able to be sexed unless they are > > > > > actively laying eggs > > > > > > > (spawning). Their sexual organs are inside > > > > > obviously ;) LOL. > > > > > > > I have a mated pair of angel's and I just > > > > > happened to get lucky that > > > > > > > way, I started out with 2 and one died, so I > > > > > replaced it with another > > > > > > > and that 2nd one turned out to be female and my > > > > > first was a male. > > > > > > > Most people get groups of angel's and wait until > > > > > they pair up to find a > > > > > > > pair to mate. > > > > > > > Are your angel's showing any sign of mating > > > > > behavior at all? When mine > > > > > > > get ready to lay eggs they will chase all the > > > > > other fish to the other > > > > > > > side of the tank and start cleaning a spot to lay > > > > > their eggs on (while > > > > > > > the other one guards for intruders the female > > > > > will start to lay the > > > > > > > eggs, then they take turns guarding while the > > > > > male fertilizes the > > > > > > eggs). > > > > > > > If you haven't seen too much aggression towards > > > > > your other fish and the > > > > > > > other 2 teaming up together and chasing the other > > > > > fish away then I'd > > > > > > > have to guess you have 2 of the same sex. > > > > > > > It may be hard to introduce smaller angel's at > > > > > this point in time as > > > > > > the > > > > > > > bigger ones will pick on the smaller ones. > > > > > > > I suppose you could slowly try introducing some > > > > > new angel's with a tank > > > > > > > divider and see how aggressive the big ones are > > > > > with the divider in. If > > > > > > > they are really aggressive and attack at the > > > > > divider then you may have > > > > > > > to wait until the smaller angel's get closer in > > > > > size to the big ones, > > > > > > > you can speed up that process (a little) by > > > > > frequent water changes and > > > > > > > feeding the young Angel's really well, just make > > > > > sure to keep the water > > > > > > > changes going (don't go overboard on them, once a > > > > > day should me more > > > > > > > than plenty if you're doing 25% changes), this > > > > > helps remove the > > > > > > hormones > > > > > > > from the water so the fish will grow a little > > > > > faster. Unless you can > > > > > > > talk to the breeder some how and see if they > > > > > might be willing to trade > > > > > > > you a mated pair ;) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Amber > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > nicurns@ wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Hello all. My name is James and I live in > > > > > UpState South Carolina. I > > > > > > > > have been keeping fish for more years than I > > > > > would like to admit, and > > > > > > > > every 5 years or so I mix everything up and > > > > > change what I am keeping. > > > > > > > > Currently we have a 1200-1500 gal pond that > > > > > I built, and rebuilt, and > > > > > > > > of course rebuilt again. I am happy with my > > > > > final result for now, but > > > > > > > > do keep it in the back of my head that > > > > > Bigger is Better, so who > > > > > > knows??? > > > > > > > > We have goldfish up to 13" long with their > > > > > offspring that have not > > > > > > > > been taken by the Heron during the winter. I > > > > > also have 2 medium size > > > > > > > > butterfly Koi and over abundance of plants. > > > > > > > > Indoors, we have a 58gal FW tank with a > > > > > 30gal sum-filter (making > > > > > > > > between 80 and 90 gal's give or take),and 2 > > > > > external filters as well > > > > > > > > housing 2 large Angels, 2 cory's, and a > > > > > pleco. This tank was a Reef > > > > > > > > tank for many years, but I am over all that > > > > > work!!!!!! We also have a > > > > > > > > smaller tank that have a single LionHead > > > > > Goldfish that is sooo > > > > > > > > friendly that he eats from your hand. He may > > > > > be going to the pond for > > > > > > > > the summer... > > > > > > > > I've had all types of fish over the years, > > > > > but never angel's until > > > > > > > > around 8 months ago. I visited our LSF, and > > > > > they had a tank full of > > > > > > > > nickel sized babies that another customer > > > > > had breed. I actually met > > > > > > > > the breeder in the store, and he has Angel's > > > > > and Discus. I bought > > > > > > 6 of > > > > > > > > the babies, and they all did great until 3 > > > > > months back when something > > > > > > > > went wacky and I lost one after another in a > > > > > span of two weeks. Well > > > > > > > > the remaining 2 are now hugh (4-5" > > > > > diameter). I would like them to > > > > > > > > breed or get another one to go in with them, > > > > > but I don't know if I > > > > > > > > have a mixed pair, two males, or two > > > > > females. Does anyone have any > > > > > > > > ideas on how to sex them? > > > > > > > > James S. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ------------------------------------ > > > > > > > > > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when > > > > > replying, Thank You. > > > > > ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> > > > > > ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> > > > > > PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is > > > > > NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of > > > > > the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new > > > > > subject (was re: old subject)" <- > > > > > <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. > > > > > , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. > > > > > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. > > > > > > > > > > If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of > > > > > unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by > > > > > clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the home page. > > > > > > > > > > Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com > > <mailto:aquaticlife-digest%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > <mailto:aquaticlife-digest%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > to receive the digest, which includes up to 25 posts at a > > > > > time in a single email > > > > > > > > > > Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com > > <mailto:aquaticlife-nomail%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > <mailto:aquaticlife-nomail%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > for the No E-Mail option where you will still be able to > > > > > read messages on the group and post replies. > > > > > > > > > > Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com > > <mailto:aquaticlife-normal%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > <mailto:aquaticlife-normal%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > to receive individual e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > mailto:AquaticLife-fullfeatured@yahoogroups.com > > <mailto:AquaticLife-fullfeatured%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife-fullfeatured%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 41013	From: sgriscom_2	Date: 6/19/2009
Subject: New fish pond...need advice

Hello all, I live in Virginia and am planning my first pond. I am not in any hurry as I want to do it right. It was actually my husbands idea but guess who will be doing most of the work. He is stationed on a cutter right now and isn't home much but he wants to have one setup when he transfers to a land unit. I have been searching the net and have exhasted my local library in books of ponds and container gardens. I haven't decided on many things yet. I know I have clay soil that is very packed. I was thinking maybe to start with a large container garden on my screened porch but not sure if that is a good idea with fish or not. I thought that might be a good test before I start digging holes. From what I read fish can do well in container gardens but all the containers I've seen have been rather small. I don't currently know anyone personally that has a pond or any experiences with them so I'm hoping to get some good advice here. Hope you can help. Shannnon

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 41014	From: sweetpisces3180	Date: 6/19/2009
Subject: Selling aquarium, besides craigslist where can I advertise?

I've posted on craigslist but haven't gotten a response. I didn't exactly see a place on here to sell, and I'm wondering where else I can post? I don't want to pay to advert in a newspaper, etc. I have a 65 gallon freshwater aquarium with all the equipment needed, it's a very clean tank! But it's too small for my new apt. any ideas or interest in the DC metro area?

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 41015	From: Raymond Wetzel	Date: 6/19/2009
Subject: Re: Distinguishing Characteristics in Sexing Angelfish

James, Amber et al, As promised, herewith for those needing or wanting to know how to sex Angelfish are the points needed to be looked for in telling male and female Angelfish apart from each other. To start right off with though, before I move on to even getting into this, it should be realized that some of these characteristics are more subtle that others. Some hobbyists may even say that ALL these characteristics must be subtle since they can't tell the difference, but those hobbyists have not looked closely enough, nor do they know what to look for. It should also be pointed out that not all of the characteristics for a male or female may be that obvious in certain specimens as, although despite the hobbyist with the untrained eye probably claiming that all Angelfish have the same appearance of shape, while extremely similar within the confines of the species the bodies of Angelfish can be extremely variable with some individuals displaying their sex traits more obviously than others while still other individuals displaying (as obvious to us) only certain sexual traits. There are occasions when most of these determining factors may be too subtle for most of us to be picked up on, but sexing Angelfish can be determined with a good deal of accuracy. STILL, only Angelfish know with more certainty that we can, of the sex of their conspecifics -- and even that seems to be in question occasionally when it is realized that at times two males or two females may pair up to spawn. While, fortunately for the species in their survival, it's still rare for this to happen, it is far from unheard of that two females will lay eggs together and otherwise act as a pair. When such a spawn doesn't hatch (as it of course won't) and the size of the spawn far exceeds the average number of eggs in a typical spawn, one may start to assume that they may well have a same-sexed pair. It's impossible for us to know whether this is a case of mistaken identity on the part of these Angelfish, or whether their choice of a same-sex partner is a deliberate choice. It might show though, that even Angelfish cannot tell the sex of their own species at times, but we are left to wonder. Now, as for what to look for. For starters, and I must remind the reader that some of these traits may be subtle at times while at other times much more obvious (and to some hobbyists, unless they know what they're looking for, these traits may on occasion appear to be mixed as they may not have picked up on the clues), we'll start with the lower portion of the body outline as viewed from the side. With males, the outline of the belly between the vental fins and the anal fin is of a much steeper angle going from front to back, than is seen in females. With females, this area of the lower abdomen tends to be more horizontal in outline. AGAIN, these are all generalities, but which hold true to a greater or lesser extend -- depending on the individual fish. Continuing with this abdomen area, in general (almost always, but not 100% of the time), the distance of this belly area between the ventral fins and the anal fin is much shorter in males when compared to females -- which have a much greater span between these fins. Addressing the differences in the ventral fins themselves, when viewed from the front -- in males these fins are held in a more downward position, whereas in females these fins are spread apart more as they decend. As viewed from the side -- On males, these fins are held somewhat straighter with less of a curve, whereas on females they tend to curve towards the rear of the body more. Looking at the anal fin, really a characteristic not as reliable but I'm including it as it may be present -- as viewed from the side, some anal fins of males may tend to have several small extended rays curving back slightly, beyond the tip of the main fin structure. In larger specimens, as viweed from the side -- quite often the males will develop noticeable (even if not too prominent) humps on their heads, similar to but not as pronounced as other larger New World Cichlids. Females, on the other hand, have more rounder top-of-head profiles, even sloping back more. As viwed from the side -- the mouths of females are more slightly turned up, with a slightly longer lower jaw. Males' mouths are directly forward, with even sized upper and lower jaws. As viewed from the front -- back to the body profile, when looking at the male head on, his lower body outline is more of a "V" shape, whereas with females it's more of a "U" shape. When spawning, things get more obvious, as the female's breeding tube (ovipositor), which appears up to three days before spawning, is univerally (top to bottom) thick, with a rounded end. The male's breeding tube, which appears most obvious on the day of spawning, is conical in shape and pointed, as you would think of a pencil tip. These are most of the sexual characteristics to look for (there are others, but just not as reliable), although as I said, the extend of them can vary from individual to individual, with some displaying all or most of these points, while others just a few of these characteristics which may not be as obvious when trying to determine their sex. There are fin extensions on the top and bottom of the caudal fin, but these can be found on either sex. I am describing these characteristics as would be found on regular fin Angelfish (not as on Veiltails or Super-Veiltails), but many of these same points can be carried to them as well, even if not as accurately. Hope this helps in determining what you have. These determining characteristics as I've seen them have not been pulled from a questionable web site, but from 62 years of breeding Angelfish, 54 of those years (from 1965, on) seriously. It may take some studying of your fish before you're able to see these differences, but they're what to look for, Have Fun! Ray --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "nicurns@..." <james_kristi@...> wrote: > > Hello all. My name is James and I live in UpState South Carolina. I have been keeping fish for more years than I would like to admit, and every 5 years or so I mix everything up and change what I am keeping. Currently we have a 1200-1500 gal pond that I built, and rebuilt, and of course rebuilt again. I am happy with my final result for now, but do keep it in the back of my head that Bigger is Better, so who knows??? > We have goldfish up to 13" long with their offspring that have not been taken by the Heron during the winter. I also have 2 medium size butterfly Koi and over abundance of plants. > Indoors, we have a 58gal FW tank with a 30gal sum-filter (making between 80 and 90 gal's give or take),and 2 external filters as well housing 2 large Angels, 2 cory's, and a pleco. This tank was a Reef tank for many years, but I am over all that work!!!!!! We also have a smaller tank that have a single LionHead Goldfish that is sooo friendly that he eats from your hand. He may be going to the pond for the summer... > I've had all types of fish over the years, but never angel's until around 8 months ago. I visited our LSF, and they had a tank full of nickel sized babies that another customer had breed. I actually met the breeder in the store, and he has Angel's and Discus. I bought 6 of the babies, and they all did great until 3 months back when something went wacky and I lost one after another in a span of two weeks. Well the remaining 2 are now hugh (4-5" diameter). I would like them to breed or get another one to go in with them, but I don't know if I have a mixed pair, two males, or two females. Does anyone have any ideas on how to sex them? > James S. >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 41016	From: Raymond Wetzel	Date: 6/19/2009
Subject: Re: Selling aquarium, besides craigslist where can I advertise?

Try AquaBid; they sell used equipment there, on auction. Ray --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "sweetpisces3180" <Mayberry2001@...> wrote: > > I've posted on craigslist but haven't gotten a response. I didn't exactly see a place on here to sell, and I'm wondering where else I can post? I don't want to pay to advert in a newspaper, etc. > > I have a 65 gallon freshwater aquarium with all the equipment needed, it's a very clean tank! But it's too small for my new apt. > > any ideas or interest in the DC metro area? >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 41017	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 6/19/2009
Subject: Re: Selling aquarium, besides craigslist where can I advertise?

Is your apt. too small for the tank or the tank too small for the apt.? ;-) There are hundreds of other forums and many of them have Classified Sections. Do a Google search of 'aquarium forums with classifieds section' and you'll find them. I did that search just now and got 359,000 hits. There are also sites like Aquabid.com (like an eBay but for aquarium related stuff). You could also contact any aquarium societies (clubs) in your area which would probably be a better way since you are probably wanting to find someone in your area so there isn't much use in advertising to the entire internet. Here's a good starting point. http://fins.actwin.com/dir/clubs.php?c=1 The District Of Columbia link doesn't have any listed but the Virginia link has several clubs listed \\Steve// out here is in the D.C. area as well.. I think... so he might chime in with some info. Or maybe he has room for one more tank in his place. ;-) Many pet stores have bulletin boards where you can put a post card ad for free. The links on the above pages have a link to "View Pet Stores In The Region" and of course, there's always the yellow pages. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of sweetpisces3180 Sent: Friday, June 19, 2009 8:40 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Selling aquarium, besides craigslist where can I advertise? I've posted on craigslist but haven't gotten a response. I didn't exactly see a place on here to sell, and I'm wondering where else I can post? I don't want to pay to advert in a newspaper, etc. I have a 65 gallon freshwater aquarium with all the equipment needed, it's a very clean tank! But it's too small for my new apt. any ideas or interest in the DC metro area?

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 41018	From: sandi turner	Date: 6/19/2009
Subject: Re: Selling aquarium, besides craigslist where can I advertise?

You could list it on ebay or see if there is a buy-sell-trade forum in your area. Check the yahoo group listings for it. Sandi --- On Fri, 6/19/09, sweetpisces3180 <Mayberry2001@...> wrote: From: sweetpisces3180 <Mayberry2001@...> Subject: [AquaticLife] Selling aquarium, besides craigslist where can I advertise? To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Date: Friday, June 19, 2009, 9:40 AM I've posted on craigslist but haven't gotten a response. I didn't exactly see a place on here to sell, and I'm wondering where else I can post? I don't want to pay to advert in a newspaper, etc. I have a 65 gallon freshwater aquarium with all the equipment needed, it's a very clean tank! But it's too small for my new apt. any ideas or interest in the DC metro area? [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 41019	From: bill 1433	Date: 6/19/2009
Subject: Re: Sexing AngelFish?

Hi Amber, You must remember, nearly all comments made here including Ray's, come from the author's own personal experience. They do and say the best that they can BUT they are YOUR fish. I say that to you because as good as their advise is THEY have not seen the fish personally.  They are basing their information on a "here's what happened to me" scenario. What Ray and others tell you, as I do some time, is exactly what happened to them.   Angel fish are not much different than Discus or any other Cichlid.  BUT, each set of prospective pairs does have their own nuance.  Sometime with Cichlids all that is needed is regular or a bit larger than normal, water change.  Sometimes just the simple matter of turning the heat up a degree or two.  All fish ARE different.  Their are some simple guide lines and do's and don'ts but that is all Ray is trying to point out.  He has, and to the best of my knowledge, still is working with and breeding Angel Fish.  He may not be the "World's Leading Authority" but he is simply trying to help you over-come difficulties that are easily managed and prevent any damage to the fish.   I'm afraid this is the one great draw backs to the Internet.  There is a great deal of information on it but it's accuracy in many cases is changeling at best.   Keep some sun on your face,   Bill --- On Thu, 6/18/09, Amber Berglund <amber@...> wrote: > From: Amber Berglund <amber@...> > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: Sexing AngelFish? > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Date: Thursday, June 18, 2009, 9:45 PM > I don't hold onto all the links I > read like Lenny does, so I have no > idea what breeder site on Angel's I read that on. > I don't mind being corrected Ray, but sometimes I wish you > weren't quite > so mean about it sometimes, I didn't see you offering him > any help on > getting his Angel's to breed and I was doing my best with > what info I > have read on them, and since I have no problems getting > mine to spawn I > was trying to pass on tips that I had read elsewhere. > If I was writing a paper on breeding Angel's then I could > understand > asking for all of my sources and page info but I'm just > trying to help > someone out with the info that I had found when I was > researching. Guess > I will just stick to the info that I personally have > experienced since I > seem to be wrong so often when I try to pass on info that > I've read. > > Amber > > Raymond Wetzel wrote: > > > > > > NO, Not So! I don't know where you read that, but I > wonder if perhaps > > you misread it, If not, whoever wrote that is wrong, > other fish in the > > tank WILL NOT induce any Angelfish to spawn. Could you > please tell me > > where you read this? I would tend to doubt that it > woyuld be in any > > well-penned book, as this kind of erroneous info has a > way of getting > > itself known as such as it spreads throughout the > hobby. I did notice > > that you advised James of this; just another case of > you can't believe > > all you read. If it was on a web site, I can > understand that -- no one > > should put complete faith in everything they read up > there, and pass > > it along, without knowing if it's true. > > > > Tetras, or any other small fish, when put with a > breeding pair of any > > species of substrate-sawning Cichlids are intended to > draw the > > attention of either one of the more aggressive > partners of the pair > > away from the other partner so that the least > aggressive partner does > > not take the full aggression of the more overbearing > one. > > > > They (these "dither fish") act to initiate the > territorial behavior of > > both partners of the breesding pair so that they act > in symphony with > > each other towards one goal -- to keep the intruders > out of the > > breeding area. In this way, attention is drawn to > these dither fish, > > rather than each other. The pair is more apt to act in > harmony rather > > than one beating up on the other. This methods of > using dither fish is > > usually reserved for much more aggressive Cichlids. > Most Angelfish > > pairs do not need dither fish with them, nor will > these dither fish > > induce their spawning. They will spawn when they want > to spawn. Most > > good young pairs will spawn every eight days once they > start spawning, > > when allowed (when you pull the slate, to set their > breeding cycle > > going again). They will taper off after about 2 1/2 > years of age (they > > will start spawning between 7 and 8 months, usually > closer to 9 > > months). Ray > > > > ---In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>, Amber > Berglund <amber@...> wrote: > > > > > > I've read from some breeders that some Angelfish > need activity in the > > > tank from other fish to help induce breeding > habits, but mine don't > > seem > > > to have any problem with that so far, will have > to see how they act > > alone. > > > > > > Amber > > > > > > bill 1433 wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Amber, > > > > > > > > If you hit those Angels at a wrong time the > life-expediency of > > > > those Tetra's will be about 5 minutes! Once > you give the fish their > > > > own tank, best leave it that way and save on > your tetra pennies! > > > > > > > > Bill > > > > > > > > --- On Thu, 6/18/09, Amber Berglund > <amber@... > > > > <mailto:amber%40rose-fields.com>> > wrote: > > > > > > > > > From: Amber Berglund <amber@... > > > > <mailto:amber%40rose-fields.com>> > > > > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: Sexing > AngelFish? > > > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > Date: Thursday, June 18, 2009, 5:09 PM > > > > > Shipping freshwater fish tends to be > > > > > less stressful on the fish than > > > > > saltwater from what I have heard > (rumors), but I don't have > > > > > saltwater > > > > > tanks either, so I'm not sure > personally. > > > > > Mine seem to go into their spawning > behavior about once a > > > > > month or so. I > > > > > leave the eggs in the tank and when I > move my 2 angel's > > > > > over to their > > > > > own 55 gallon I will let them raise > them by themselves. > > > > > Some breeders also put in faster > swimming tetras to help > > > > > induce breeding > > > > > too, you may have a mated pair and not > know it as they > > > > > haven't felt the > > > > > desire to breed just yet. Have you ever > had any middle > > > > > swimming fast > > > > > fish such as tetra's in the tank with > your Angel's? > > > > > Silver dollars are a popular fish to > put in with Angel's, > > > > > but they get > > > > > big (bigger than the Angel's I think), > I have never had any > > > > > myself. But > > > > > my LFS has some in stock, LOL. > > > > > > > > > > Amber > > > > > > > > > > nicurns@... > <mailto:nicurns%40bellsouth.net> > > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Amber, Thanks for replying. I > don't see any aggressive > > > > > behavior within > > > > > > the tank except between the two > angels at times. It > > > > > almost appears as > > > > > > though they are playing!!!LOL > > > > > > The only other fish in that tank > are 2 cory's and a > > > > > medium sized > > > > > > Pleco. The angels stay to > themselves as do the cory's > > > > > and I rarely see > > > > > > the Pleco except an occasional > darting whenever > > > > > entering the room. > > > > > > Regarding your angels.... Once > they began spawning, > > > > > how often did this > > > > > > re-occur? Do you allow them to > care for the babies or > > > > > do you remove > > > > > > them to a seperate tank? > > > > > > I am planning on getting another > larger angel or two, > > > > > to go into this > > > > > > tank but just having issues > finding larger ones in my > > > > > area. I have > > > > > > purchased marine fish over the web > in the past, but > > > > > have not done so > > > > > > with freshwater species yet. Maybe > I'll start looking > > > > > into this over > > > > > > the next few weeks. > > > > > > > > > > > > Thanks, > > > > > > James S. > > > > > > > > > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>, Amber > > > > > Berglund <amber@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Angel's are not able to be > sexed unless they are > > > > > actively laying eggs > > > > > > > (spawning). Their sexual > organs are inside > > > > > obviously ;) LOL. > > > > > > > I have a mated pair of > angel's and I just > > > > > happened to get lucky that > > > > > > > way, I started out with 2 and > one died, so I > > > > > replaced it with another > > > > > > > and that 2nd one turned out > to be female and my > > > > > first was a male. > > > > > > > Most people get groups of > angel's and wait until > > > > > they pair up to find a > > > > > > > pair to mate. > > > > > > > Are your angel's showing any > sign of mating > > > > > behavior at all? When mine > > > > > > > get ready to lay eggs they > will chase all the > > > > > other fish to the other > > > > > > > side of the tank and start > cleaning a spot to lay > > > > > their eggs on (while > > > > > > > the other one guards for > intruders the female > > > > > will start to lay the > > > > > > > eggs, then they take turns > guarding while the > > > > > male fertilizes the > > > > > > eggs). > > > > > > > If you haven't seen too much > aggression towards > > > > > your other fish and the > > > > > > > other 2 teaming up together > and chasing the other > > > > > fish away then I'd > > > > > > > have to guess you have 2 of > the same sex. > > > > > > > It may be hard to introduce > smaller angel's at > > > > > this point in time as > > > > > > the > > > > > > > bigger ones will pick on the > smaller ones. > > > > > > > I suppose you could slowly > try introducing some > > > > > new angel's with a tank > > > > > > > divider and see how > aggressive the big ones are > > > > > with the divider in. If > > > > > > > they are really aggressive > and attack at the > > > > > divider then you may have > > > > > > > to wait until the smaller > angel's get closer in > > > > > size to the big ones, > > > > > > > you can speed up that process > (a little) by > > > > > frequent water changes and > > > > > > > feeding the young Angel's > really well, just make > > > > > sure to keep the water > > > > > > > changes going (don't go > overboard on them, once a > > > > > day should me more > > > > > > > than plenty if you're doing > 25% changes), this > > > > > helps remove the > > > > > > hormones > > > > > > > from the water so the fish > will grow a little > > > > > faster. Unless you can > > > > > > > talk to the breeder some how > and see if they > > > > > might be willing to trade > > > > > > > you a mated pair ;) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Amber > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > nicurns@ wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Hello all. My name is > James and I live in > > > > > UpState South Carolina. I > > > > > > > > have been keeping fish > for more years than I > > > > > would like to admit, and > > > > > > > > every 5 years or so I > mix everything up and > > > > > change what I am keeping. > > > > > > > > Currently we have a > 1200-1500 gal pond that > > > > > I built, and rebuilt, and > > > > > > > > of course rebuilt again. > I am happy with my > > > > > final result for now, but > > > > > > > > do keep it in the back > of my head that > > > > > Bigger is Better, so who > > > > > > knows??? > > > > > > > > We have goldfish up to > 13" long with their > > > > > offspring that have not > > > > > > > > been taken by the Heron > during the winter. I > > > > > also have 2 medium size > > > > > > > > butterfly Koi and over > abundance of plants. > > > > > > > > Indoors, we have a 58gal > FW tank with a > > > > > 30gal sum-filter (making > > > > > > > > between 80 and 90 gal's > give or take),and 2 > > > > > external filters as well > > > > > > > > housing 2 large Angels, > 2 cory's, and a > > > > > pleco. This tank was a Reef > > > > > > > > tank for many years, but > I am over all that > > > > > work!!!!!! We also have a > > > > > > > > smaller tank that have a > single LionHead > > > > > Goldfish that is sooo > > > > > > > > friendly that he eats > from your hand. He may > > > > > be going to the pond for > > > > > > > > the summer... > > > > > > > > I've had all types of > fish over the years, > > > > > but never angel's until > > > > > > > > around 8 months ago. I > visited our LSF, and > > > > > they had a tank full of > > > > > > > > nickel sized babies that > another customer > > > > > had breed. I actually met > > > > > > > > the breeder in the > store, and he has Angel's > > > > > and Discus. I bought > > > > > > 6 of > > > > > > > > the babies, and they all > did great until 3 > > > > > months back when something > > > > > > > > went wacky and I lost > one after another in a > > > > > span of two weeks. Well > > > > > > > > the remaining 2 are now > hugh (4-5" > > > > > diameter). I would like them to > > > > > > > > breed or get another one > to go in with them, > > > > > but I don't know if I > > > > > > > > have a mixed pair, two > males, or two > > > > > females. Does anyone have any > > > > > > > > ideas on how to sex > them? > > > > > > > > James S. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ------------------------------------ > > > > > > > > > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING > below it when > > > > > replying, Thank You. > > > > > > ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> > > > > > ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , > .·´¯`·..><((((º> > > > > > PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, > DELETE all TEXT that is > > > > > NOT important to the reply & if > CHANGING the TOPIC of > > > > > the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT > LINE -> i.e. "new > > > > > subject (was re: old subject)" <- > > > > > > <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. > > > > > , > .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. > > > > > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP > in this matter. > > > > > > > > > > If you do not want all of the groups > emails, instead of > > > > > unsubscribing, you can change your > delivery option by > > > > > clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the > home page. > > > > > > > > > > Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com > > > <mailto:aquaticlife-digest%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > <mailto:aquaticlife-digest%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > to receive the digest, which includes > up to 25 posts at a > > > > > time in a single email > > > > > > > > > > Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com > > > <mailto:aquaticlife-nomail%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > <mailto:aquaticlife-nomail%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > for the No E-Mail option where you will > still be able to > > > > > read messages on the group and post > replies. > > > > > > > > > > Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com > > > <mailto:aquaticlife-normal%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > <mailto:aquaticlife-normal%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > to receive individual e-mails.Yahoo! > Groups Links > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > mailto:AquaticLife-fullfeatured@yahoogroups.com > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife-fullfeatured%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife-fullfeatured%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ------------------------------------ > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when > replying, Thank You. > ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> > ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> > PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is > NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of > the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new > subject (was re: old subject)" <- > <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. > , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. > > If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of > unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by > clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the home page.  > > Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com > to receive the digest, which includes up to 25 posts at a > time in a single email > > Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com > for the No E-Mail option where you will still be able to > read messages on the group and post replies. > > Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com > to receive individual e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links > > >     mailto:AquaticLife-fullfeatured@yahoogroups.com > > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 41020	From: bill 1433	Date: 6/19/2009
Subject: Re: Sexing AngelFish?

Lenny, In a small way, being a member of this "club", I believe both references are entirely accurate! ol'bill --- On Thu, 6/18/09, Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@...> wrote: > From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@...> > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: Sexing AngelFish? > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Date: Thursday, June 18, 2009, 11:41 PM > \\Steve//, > > Did you mean "old fogeys" or "grumpy old men"?  > > LOL > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed > on the right > side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives > by Year, Month) > > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] > On > Behalf Of Steve Szabo > Sent: Thursday, June 18, 2009 10:08 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: Sexing AngelFish? > > Amber, > > As you become more experienced, you will learn to be more > discriminating > with information you find on the web, in published > articles, and even in > books, especially when it goes against your personal > experience. > > Ray is really a nice guy, he really is. He simply wanted a > reference to the > material you were passing along so he could check it out > himself. > The problem is that written communication does not always > come across as you > mean it to. Since I do know Ray (us old fogeys in the hobby > need to stick > together), I can read the message as he probably meant it., > instead of > reading it verbatim as you have. You need to learn to take > what is said in > e-mail with a little grain of salt rather than taking > offense immediately. > If ray meant to cut you down, believe me, you would have > known it. > > \\Steve// > > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] > On Behalf Of Amber Berglund > Sent: Thursday, June 18, 2009 9:46 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: Sexing AngelFish? > > I don't hold onto all the links I read like Lenny does, so > I have no idea > what breeder site on Angel's I read that on. > I don't mind being corrected Ray, but sometimes I wish you > weren't quite > > so mean about it sometimes, I didn't see you offering him > any help on > getting his Angel's to breed and I was doing my best with > what info I have > read on them, and since I have no problems getting mine to > spawn I was > trying to pass on tips that I had read elsewhere. > If I was writing a paper on breeding Angel's then I could > understand asking > for all of my sources and page info but I'm just trying to > help someone out > with the info that I had found when I was researching. > Guess > > I will just stick to the info that I personally have > experienced since I > > seem to be wrong so often when I try to pass on info that > I've read. > > Amber > > Raymond Wetzel wrote: > > > > > > NO, Not So! I don't know where you read that, but I > wonder if perhaps > > you misread it, If not, whoever wrote that is wrong, > other fish in the > > > tank WILL NOT induce any Angelfish to spawn. Could you > please tell me > > where you read this? I would tend to doubt that it > woyuld be in any > > well-penned book, as this kind of erroneous info has a > way of getting > > itself known as such as it spreads throughout the > hobby. I did notice > > that you advised James of this; just another case of > you can't believe > > > all you read. If it was on a web site, I can > understand that -- no one > > > should put complete faith in everything they read up > there, and pass > > it along, without knowing if it's true. > > > > Tetras, or any other small fish, when put with a > breeding pair of any > > species of substrate-sawning Cichlids are intended to > draw the > > attention of either one of the more aggressive > partners of the pair > > away from the other partner so that the least > aggressive partner does > > not take the full aggression of the more overbearing > one. > > > > They (these "dither fish") act to initiate the > territorial behavior of > > > both partners of the breesding pair so that they act > in symphony with > > each other towards one goal -- to keep the intruders > out of the > > breeding area. In this way, attention is drawn to > these dither fish, > > rather than each other. The pair is more apt to act in > harmony rather > > than one beating up on the other. This methods of > using dither fish is > > > usually reserved for much more aggressive Cichlids. > Most Angelfish > > pairs do not need dither fish with them, nor will > these dither fish > > induce their spawning. They will spawn when they want > to spawn. Most > > good young pairs will spawn every eight days once they > start spawning, > > > when allowed (when you pull the slate, to set their > breeding cycle > > going again). They will taper off after about 2 1/2 > years of age (they > > > will start spawning between 7 and 8 months, usually > closer to 9 > > months). Ray > > > > ---In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>, Amber > Berglund <amber@...> > wrote: > > > > > > I've read from some breeders that some Angelfish > need activity in > the > > > tank from other fish to help induce breeding > habits, but mine don't > > seem > > > to have any problem with that so far, will have > to see how they act > > alone. > > > > > > Amber > > > > > > bill 1433 wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Amber, > > > > > > > > If you hit those Angels at a wrong time the > life-expediency of > > > > those Tetra's will be about 5 minutes! Once > you give the fish > their > > > > own tank, best leave it that way and save on > your tetra pennies! > > > > > > > > Bill > > > > > > > > ------------------------------------ > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when > replying, Thank You. > ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> > ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> > PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is > NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of > the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new > subject (was re: old subject)" <- > <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. > , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. > > If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of > unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by > clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the home page.  > > Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com > to receive the digest, which includes up to 25 posts at a > time in a single email > > Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com > for the No E-Mail option where you will still be able to > read messages on the group and post replies. > > Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com > to receive individual e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links > > >     mailto:AquaticLife-fullfeatured@yahoogroups.com > > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 41021	From: Raymond Wetzel	Date: 6/19/2009
Subject: Re: New fish pond...need advice

Hi Shannnnon, Oops, did I use one too many "n's" or two too many? (LOL) -- check back to your signature. Anyway, with a lot of work ahead of just you, and your uncertainty on how this will go, a container garden is a good way to get your feet wet (LOL) -- couldn't resist! It does look like digging a pond will be a bit of a challenge in you clay soil, but if (when?) you get that far you'll just need to take your time to make the digging less stressful on yourself. As for a container, you haven't indicated how large you want to go, although just by their definition they would not be large enough for the usual ornamental pond fish -- not for Goldfish, and certainly not for Koi. Even too small for the likes of Golden Orfe. There are numberous choices of small tropical fish you could put in a container garden, though -- athough with fluctuating temperatures possibly going lower on occasional nights than the tolerances of many, you'd do best with species having somewhat lower temperature requirements. Naturally, the larger the container, the less any temperature fluctuation would be. My only concern is the "screened porch" idea, but only as it hasn't been fully described. Still, while seeming to be a good idea off the cuff, depending upon its location., it may not receive enough sunlight for any pond plants to flower -- if this is one of your goals. Most flowering aquatic plants need a minimum of at least 6 hours of direct sunlight, and this would not be screened sunlight although an hour or so extention of light should make up for this "shading." Back to the fishes, many hobbyists use Swordtails, Mollies, White Clouds and Paradise Fish, etc. Let us know what you decide, and the size of what you have in mind. Being in Virginia, you may be able to get some ideas if you can visit nearby Lily Pons Water Gardens in Maryland. Most other well known water garden specialists will mail order needed supplies to you as well -- you just need to send for their catalog to get some ideas, unless you know what you want. May different tub and containers of various sizes for water gardening can be found at these outlets. Feel free to ask anything else on this that you may need to know, and keep us posted. Ray --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "sgriscom_2" <sgriscom_2@...> wrote: > > Hello all, I live in Virginia and am planning my first pond. I am not in any hurry as I want to do it right. It was actually my husbands idea but guess who will be doing most of the work. He is stationed on a cutter right now and isn't home much but he wants to have one setup when he transfers to a land unit. I have been searching the net and have exhasted my local library in books of ponds and container gardens. I haven't decided on many things yet. I know I have clay soil that is very packed. I was thinking maybe to start with a large container garden on my screened porch but not sure if that is a good idea with fish or not. I thought that might be a good test before I start digging holes. From what I read fish can do well in container gardens but all the containers I've seen have been rather small. I don't currently know anyone personally that has a pond or any experiences with them so I'm hoping to get some good advice here. Hope you can help. Shannnon >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 41022	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 6/19/2009
Subject: Re: Sexing AngelFish?

Ray and Bill, I was not as angry in my post as you guys seem to think I was, I was only pointing out that Ray comes across as mean at times, even if he doesn't mean to be. I thought I also stated somewhere in my post to James that I have never had to put tetras in my tank to get my Angelfish to breed so it was not my experience that it was needed to be done, it was merely a suggestion is all. I really don't mind being corrected, I'd rather have the right information than the wrong information and pass it on. And what sun Bill? I live in Alaska ;) LOL Amber bill 1433 wrote: > > > > Hi Amber, > > You must remember, nearly all comments made here including Ray's, come > from the author's own personal experience. They do and say the best > that they can BUT they are YOUR fish. > > I say that to you because as good as their advise is THEY have not > seen the fish personally. They are basing their information on a > "here's what happened to me" scenario. > What Ray and others tell you, as I do some time, is exactly what > happened to them. > > Angel fish are not much different than Discus or any other Cichlid. > BUT, each set of prospective pairs does have their own nuance. > Sometime with Cichlids all that is needed is regular or a bit larger > than normal, water change. Sometimes just the simple matter of > turning the heat up a degree or two. All fish ARE different. Their > are some simple guide lines and do's and don'ts but that is all Ray is > trying to point out. He has, and to the best of my knowledge, still > is working with and breeding Angel Fish. He may not be the "World's > Leading Authority" but he is simply trying to help you over-come > difficulties that are easily managed and prevent any damage to the fish. > > I'm afraid this is the one great draw backs to the Internet. There is > a great deal of information on it but it's accuracy in many cases is > changeling at best. > > Keep some sun on your face, > > Bill > > --- On Thu, 6/18/09, Amber Berglund <amber@... > <mailto:amber%40rose-fields.com>> wrote: > > > From: Amber Berglund <amber@... > <mailto:amber%40rose-fields.com>> > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: Sexing AngelFish? > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > Date: Thursday, June 18, 2009, 9:45 PM > > I don't hold onto all the links I > > read like Lenny does, so I have no > > idea what breeder site on Angel's I read that on. > > I don't mind being corrected Ray, but sometimes I wish you > > weren't quite > > so mean about it sometimes, I didn't see you offering him > > any help on > > getting his Angel's to breed and I was doing my best with > > what info I > > have read on them, and since I have no problems getting > > mine to spawn I > > was trying to pass on tips that I had read elsewhere. > > If I was writing a paper on breeding Angel's then I could > > understand > > asking for all of my sources and page info but I'm just > > trying to help > > someone out with the info that I had found when I was > > researching. Guess > > I will just stick to the info that I personally have > > experienced since I > > seem to be wrong so often when I try to pass on info that > > I've read. > > > > Amber > > > > Raymond Wetzel wrote: > > > > > > > > > NO, Not So! I don't know where you read that, but I > > wonder if perhaps > > > you misread it, If not, whoever wrote that is wrong, > > other fish in the > > > tank WILL NOT induce any Angelfish to spawn. Could you > > please tell me > > > where you read this? I would tend to doubt that it > > woyuld be in any > > > well-penned book, as this kind of erroneous info has a > > way of getting > > > itself known as such as it spreads throughout the > > hobby. I did notice > > > that you advised James of this; just another case of > > you can't believe > > > all you read. If it was on a web site, I can > > understand that -- no one > > > should put complete faith in everything they read up > > there, and pass > > > it along, without knowing if it's true. > > > > > > Tetras, or any other small fish, when put with a > > breeding pair of any > > > species of substrate-sawning Cichlids are intended to > > draw the > > > attention of either one of the more aggressive > > partners of the pair > > > away from the other partner so that the least > > aggressive partner does > > > not take the full aggression of the more overbearing > > one. > > > > > > They (these "dither fish") act to initiate the > > territorial behavior of > > > both partners of the breesding pair so that they act > > in symphony with > > > each other towards one goal -- to keep the intruders > > out of the > > > breeding area. In this way, attention is drawn to > > these dither fish, > > > rather than each other. The pair is more apt to act in > > harmony rather > > > than one beating up on the other. This methods of > > using dither fish is > > > usually reserved for much more aggressive Cichlids. > > Most Angelfish > > > pairs do not need dither fish with them, nor will > > these dither fish > > > induce their spawning. They will spawn when they want > > to spawn. Most > > > good young pairs will spawn every eight days once they > > start spawning, > > > when allowed (when you pull the slate, to set their > > breeding cycle > > > going again). They will taper off after about 2 1/2 > > years of age (they > > > will start spawning between 7 and 8 months, usually > > closer to 9 > > > months). Ray > > > > > > ---In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>, Amber > > Berglund <amber@...> wrote: > > > > > > > > I've read from some breeders that some Angelfish > > need activity in the > > > > tank from other fish to help induce breeding > > habits, but mine don't > > > seem > > > > to have any problem with that so far, will have > > to see how they act > > > alone. > > > > > > > > Amber > > > > > > > > bill 1433 wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Amber, > > > > > > > > > > If you hit those Angels at a wrong time the > > life-expediency of > > > > > those Tetra's will be about 5 minutes! Once > > you give the fish their > > > > > own tank, best leave it that way and save on > > your tetra pennies! > > > > > > > > > > Bill > > > > > > > > > > --- On Thu, 6/18/09, Amber Berglund > > <amber@... > > > > > <mailto:amber%40rose-fields.com>> > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > From: Amber Berglund <amber@... > > > > > <mailto:amber%40rose-fields.com>> > > > > > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: Sexing > > AngelFish? > > > > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > Date: Thursday, June 18, 2009, 5:09 PM > > > > > > Shipping freshwater fish tends to be > > > > > > less stressful on the fish than > > > > > > saltwater from what I have heard > > (rumors), but I don't have > > > > > > saltwater > > > > > > tanks either, so I'm not sure > > personally. > > > > > > Mine seem to go into their spawning > > behavior about once a > > > > > > month or so. I > > > > > > leave the eggs in the tank and when I > > move my 2 angel's > > > > > > over to their > > > > > > own 55 gallon I will let them raise > > them by themselves. > > > > > > Some breeders also put in faster > > swimming tetras to help > > > > > > induce breeding > > > > > > too, you may have a mated pair and not > > know it as they > > > > > > haven't felt the > > > > > > desire to breed just yet. Have you ever > > had any middle > > > > > > swimming fast > > > > > > fish such as tetra's in the tank with > > your Angel's? > > > > > > Silver dollars are a popular fish to > > put in with Angel's, > > > > > > but they get > > > > > > big (bigger than the Angel's I think), > > I have never had any > > > > > > myself. But > > > > > > my LFS has some in stock, LOL. > > > > > > > > > > > > Amber > > > > > > > > > > > > nicurns@... > > <mailto:nicurns%40bellsouth.net> > > > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Amber, Thanks for replying. I > > don't see any aggressive > > > > > > behavior within > > > > > > > the tank except between the two > > angels at times. It > > > > > > almost appears as > > > > > > > though they are playing!!!LOL > > > > > > > The only other fish in that tank > > are 2 cory's and a > > > > > > medium sized > > > > > > > Pleco. The angels stay to > > themselves as do the cory's > > > > > > and I rarely see > > > > > > > the Pleco except an occasional > > darting whenever > > > > > > entering the room. > > > > > > > Regarding your angels.... Once > > they began spawning, > > > > > > how often did this > > > > > > > re-occur? Do you allow them to > > care for the babies or > > > > > > do you remove > > > > > > > them to a seperate tank? > > > > > > > I am planning on getting another > > larger angel or two, > > > > > > to go into this > > > > > > > tank but just having issues > > finding larger ones in my > > > > > > area. I have > > > > > > > purchased marine fish over the web > > in the past, but > > > > > > have not done so > > > > > > > with freshwater species yet. Maybe > > I'll start looking > > > > > > into this over > > > > > > > the next few weeks. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Thanks, > > > > > > > James S. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>, Amber > > > > > > Berglund <amber@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Angel's are not able to be > > sexed unless they are > > > > > > actively laying eggs > > > > > > > > (spawning). Their sexual > > organs are inside > > > > > > obviously ;) LOL. > > > > > > > > I have a mated pair of > > angel's and I just > > > > > > happened to get lucky that > > > > > > > > way, I started out with 2 and > > one died, so I > > > > > > replaced it with another > > > > > > > > and that 2nd one turned out > > to be female and my > > > > > > first was a male. > > > > > > > > Most people get groups of > > angel's and wait until > > > > > > they pair up to find a > > > > > > > > pair to mate. > > > > > > > > Are your angel's showing any > > sign of mating > > > > > > behavior at all? When mine > > > > > > > > get ready to lay eggs they > > will chase all the > > > > > > other fish to the other > > > > > > > > side of the tank and start > > cleaning a spot to lay > > > > > > their eggs on (while > > > > > > > > the other one guards for > > intruders the female > > > > > > will start to lay the > > > > > > > > eggs, then they take turns > > guarding while the > > > > > > male fertilizes the > > > > > > > eggs). > > > > > > > > If you haven't seen too much > > aggression towards > > > > > > your other fish and the > > > > > > > > other 2 teaming up together > > and chasing the other > > > > > > fish away then I'd > > > > > > > > have to guess you have 2 of > > the same sex. > > > > > > > > It may be hard to introduce > > smaller angel's at > > > > > > this point in time as > > > > > > > the > > > > > > > > bigger ones will pick on the > > smaller ones. > > > > > > > > I suppose you could slowly > > try introducing some > > > > > > new angel's with a tank > > > > > > > > divider and see how > > aggressive the big ones are > > > > > > with the divider in. If > > > > > > > > they are really aggressive > > and attack at the > > > > > > divider then you may have > > > > > > > > to wait until the smaller > > angel's get closer in > > > > > > size to the big ones, > > > > > > > > you can speed up that process > > (a little) by > > > > > > frequent water changes and > > > > > > > > feeding the young Angel's > > really well, just make > > > > > > sure to keep the water > > > > > > > > changes going (don't go > > overboard on them, once a > > > > > > day should me more > > > > > > > > than plenty if you're doing > > 25% changes), this > > > > > > helps remove the > > > > > > > hormones > > > > > > > > from the water so the fish > > will grow a little > > > > > > faster. Unless you can > > > > > > > > talk to the breeder some how > > and see if they > > > > > > might be willing to trade > > > > > > > > you a mated pair ;) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Amber > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > nicurns@ wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Hello all. My name is > > James and I live in > > > > > > UpState South Carolina. I > > > > > > > > > have been keeping fish > > for more years than I > > > > > > would like to admit, and > > > > > > > > > every 5 years or so I > > mix everything up and > > > > > > change what I am keeping. > > > > > > > > > Currently we have a > > 1200-1500 gal pond that > > > > > > I built, and rebuilt, and > > > > > > > > > of course rebuilt again. > > I am happy with my > > > > > > final result for now, but > > > > > > > > > do keep it in the back > > of my head that > > > > > > Bigger is Better, so who > > > > > > > knows??? > > > > > > > > > We have goldfish up to > > 13" long with their > > > > > > offspring that have not > > > > > > > > > been taken by the Heron > > during the winter. I > > > > > > also have 2 medium size > > > > > > > > > butterfly Koi and over > > abundance of plants. > > > > > > > > > Indoors, we have a 58gal > > FW tank with a > > > > > > 30gal sum-filter (making > > > > > > > > > between 80 and 90 gal's > > give or take),and 2 > > > > > > external filters as well > > > > > > > > > housing 2 large Angels, > > 2 cory's, and a > > > > > > pleco. This tank was a Reef > > > > > > > > > tank for many years, but > > I am over all that > > > > > > work!!!!!! We also have a > > > > > > > > > smaller tank that have a > > single LionHead > > > > > > Goldfish that is sooo > > > > > > > > > friendly that he eats > > from your hand. He may > > > > > > be going to the pond for > > > > > > > > > the summer... > > > > > > > > > I've had all types of > > fish over the years, > > > > > > but never angel's until > > > > > > > > > around 8 months ago. I > > visited our LSF, and > > > > > > they had a tank full of > > > > > > > > > nickel sized babies that > > another customer > > > > > > had breed. I actually met > > > > > > > > > the breeder in the > > store, and he has Angel's > > > > > > and Discus. I bought > > > > > > > 6 of > > > > > > > > > the babies, and they all > > did great until 3 > > > > > > months back when something > > > > > > > > > went wacky and I lost > > one after another in a > > > > > > span of two weeks. Well > > > > > > > > > the remaining 2 are now > > hugh (4-5" > > > > > > diameter). I would like them to > > > > > > > > > breed or get another one > > to go in with them, > > > > > > but I don't know if I > > > > > > > > > have a mixed pair, two > > males, or two > > > > > > females. Does anyone have any > > > > > > > > > ideas on how to sex > > them? > > > > > > > > > James S. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ------------------------------------ > > > > > > > > > > > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING > > below it when > > > > > > replying, Thank You. > > > > > > > > ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> > > > > > > ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , > > .·´¯`·..><((((º> > > > > > > PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, > > DELETE all TEXT that is > > > > > > NOT important to the reply & if > > CHANGING the TOPIC of > > > > > > the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT > > LINE -> i.e. "new > > > > > > subject (was re: old subject)" <- > > > > > > > > <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. > > > > > > , > > .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. > > > > > > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP > > in this matter. > > > > > > > > > > > > If you do not want all of the groups > > emails, instead of > > > > > > unsubscribing, you can change your > > delivery option by > > > > > > clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the > > home page. > > > > > > > > > > > > Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:aquaticlife-digest%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > <mailto:aquaticlife-digest%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > <mailto:aquaticlife-digest%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > to receive the digest, which includes > > up to 25 posts at a > > > > > > time in a single email > > > > > > > > > > > > Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:aquaticlife-nomail%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > <mailto:aquaticlife-nomail%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > <mailto:aquaticlife-nomail%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > for the No E-Mail option where you will > > still be able to > > > > > > read messages on the group and post > > replies. > > > > > > > > > > > > Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:aquaticlife-normal%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > <mailto:aquaticlife-normal%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > <mailto:aquaticlife-normal%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > to receive individual e-mails.Yahoo! > > Groups Links > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > mailto:AquaticLife-fullfeatured@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife-fullfeatured%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife-fullfeatured%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife-fullfeatured%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ------------------------------------ > > > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when > > replying, Thank You. > > ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> > > ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> > > PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is > > NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of > > the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new > > subject (was re: old subject)" <- > > <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. > > , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. > > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. > > > > If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of > > unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by > > clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the home page. > > > > Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:aquaticlife-digest%40yahoogroups.com> > > to receive the digest, which includes up to 25 posts at a > > time in a single email > > > > Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:aquaticlife-nomail%40yahoogroups.com> > > for the No E-Mail option where you will still be able to > > read messages on the group and post replies. > > > > Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:aquaticlife-normal%40yahoogroups.com> > > to receive individual e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > mailto:AquaticLife-fullfeatured@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife-fullfeatured%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 41023	From: Raymond Wetzel	Date: 6/19/2009
Subject: Re: Sexing AngelFish?

Hi Bill, Actually, in re-reading James' post, while he'd like to breed them, the only thing he's asking about is how to sex them. I hadn't had the opportunity to reply to him early on, but I hope I was able to fill him in s best as I could mre recently. If anyone needs to know about actually breeding them, I'd be more than happy to try to brief some stuff here -- although reams have been written on this subject. And here, I'm not saying to refer to those many books, as I'd be more than pleased to help, but it could get quite lengthy for me. In fact, I guess I could even write a book on it, that's how much it could entail. Still, will give some briefs but informative ones, if anyone needs. Yes, I am still working with breeding Angelfish, as they're one of my joys. I'm presently using 16 pairs in my hatchery -- had 32 pairs going several years ago, but had to thin out as they were encroaching on the needed tank space for other species I like to work with. Quite true Bill, and it may have even been me who originally advised you of this (I don't remember), but I've written numerous times on the individuality of Angelfish and their distinctive behavior within the confines of the species. You may expect anything of any individual Angelfish, that is possible for an Angelfish to do. Likewise, with Angelfish pairs -- Each pair may be expected to behave somewhat differently from the next -- some very similarly, and some a bit more removed from other pairs in their behavior. Ray --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, bill 1433 <warrenprint@...> wrote: > > > Hi Amber, > > You must remember, nearly all comments made here including Ray's, come from the author's own personal experience. They do and say the best that they can BUT they are YOUR fish. > > I say that to you because as good as their advise is THEY have not seen the fish personally.  They are basing their information on a "here's what happened to me" scenario. > What Ray and others tell you, as I do some time, is exactly what happened to them. >   > Angel fish are not much different than Discus or any other Cichlid.  BUT, each set of prospective pairs does have their own nuance.  Sometime with Cichlids all that is needed is regular or a bit larger than normal, water change.  Sometimes just the simple matter of turning the heat up a degree or two.  All fish ARE different.  Their are some simple guide lines and do's and don'ts but that is all Ray is trying to point out.  He has, and to the best of my knowledge, still is working with and breeding Angel Fish.  He may not be the "World's Leading Authority" but he is simply trying to help you over-come difficulties that are easily managed and prevent any damage to the fish. >   > I'm afraid this is the one great draw backs to the Internet.  There is a great deal of information on it but it's accuracy in many cases is changeling at best. >   > Keep some sun on your face, >   > Bill > > --- On Thu, 6/18/09, Amber Berglund <amber@...> wrote: > > > From: Amber Berglund <amber@...> > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: Sexing AngelFish? > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > Date: Thursday, June 18, 2009, 9:45 PM > > I don't hold onto all the links I > > read like Lenny does, so I have no > > idea what breeder site on Angel's I read that on. > > I don't mind being corrected Ray, but sometimes I wish you > > weren't quite > > so mean about it sometimes, I didn't see you offering him > > any help on > > getting his Angel's to breed and I was doing my best with > > what info I > > have read on them, and since I have no problems getting > > mine to spawn I > > was trying to pass on tips that I had read elsewhere. > > If I was writing a paper on breeding Angel's then I could > > understand > > asking for all of my sources and page info but I'm just > > trying to help > > someone out with the info that I had found when I was > > researching. Guess > > I will just stick to the info that I personally have > > experienced since I > > seem to be wrong so often when I try to pass on info that > > I've read. > > > > Amber > > > > Raymond Wetzel wrote: > > > > > > > > > NO, Not So! I don't know where you read that, but I > > wonder if perhaps > > > you misread it, If not, whoever wrote that is wrong, > > other fish in the > > > tank WILL NOT induce any Angelfish to spawn. Could you > > please tell me > > > where you read this? I would tend to doubt that it > > woyuld be in any > > > well-penned book, as this kind of erroneous info has a > > way of getting > > > itself known as such as it spreads throughout the > > hobby. I did notice > > > that you advised James of this; just another case of > > you can't believe > > > all you read. If it was on a web site, I can > > understand that -- no one > > > should put complete faith in everything they read up > > there, and pass > > > it along, without knowing if it's true. > > > > > > Tetras, or any other small fish, when put with a > > breeding pair of any > > > species of substrate-sawning Cichlids are intended to > > draw the > > > attention of either one of the more aggressive > > partners of the pair > > > away from the other partner so that the least > > aggressive partner does > > > not take the full aggression of the more overbearing > > one. > > > > > > They (these "dither fish") act to initiate the > > territorial behavior of > > > both partners of the breesding pair so that they act > > in symphony with > > > each other towards one goal -- to keep the intruders > > out of the > > > breeding area. In this way, attention is drawn to > > these dither fish, > > > rather than each other. The pair is more apt to act in > > harmony rather > > > than one beating up on the other. This methods of > > using dither fish is > > > usually reserved for much more aggressive Cichlids. > > Most Angelfish > > > pairs do not need dither fish with them, nor will > > these dither fish > > > induce their spawning. They will spawn when they want > > to spawn. Most > > > good young pairs will spawn every eight days once they > > start spawning, > > > when allowed (when you pull the slate, to set their > > breeding cycle > > > going again). They will taper off after about 2 1/2 > > years of age (they > > > will start spawning between 7 and 8 months, usually > > closer to 9 > > > months). Ray > > > > > > ---In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>, Amber > > Berglund <amber@> wrote: > > > > > > > > I've read from some breeders that some Angelfish > > need activity in the > > > > tank from other fish to help induce breeding > > habits, but mine don't > > > seem > > > > to have any problem with that so far, will have > > to see how they act > > > alone. > > > > > > > > Amber > > > > > > > > bill 1433 wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Amber, > > > > > > > > > > If you hit those Angels at a wrong time the > > life-expediency of > > > > > those Tetra's will be about 5 minutes! Once > > you give the fish their > > > > > own tank, best leave it that way and save on > > your tetra pennies! > > > > > > > > > > Bill > > > > > > > > > > --- On Thu, 6/18/09, Amber Berglund > > <amber@ > > > > > <mailto:amber%40rose-fields.com>> > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > From: Amber Berglund <amber@ > > > > > <mailto:amber%40rose-fields.com>> > > > > > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: Sexing > > AngelFish? > > > > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > Date: Thursday, June 18, 2009, 5:09 PM > > > > > > Shipping freshwater fish tends to be > > > > > > less stressful on the fish than > > > > > > saltwater from what I have heard > > (rumors), but I don't have > > > > > > saltwater > > > > > > tanks either, so I'm not sure > > personally. > > > > > > Mine seem to go into their spawning > > behavior about once a > > > > > > month or so. I > > > > > > leave the eggs in the tank and when I > > move my 2 angel's > > > > > > over to their > > > > > > own 55 gallon I will let them raise > > them by themselves. > > > > > > Some breeders also put in faster > > swimming tetras to help > > > > > > induce breeding > > > > > > too, you may have a mated pair and not > > know it as they > > > > > > haven't felt the > > > > > > desire to breed just yet. Have you ever > > had any middle > > > > > > swimming fast > > > > > > fish such as tetra's in the tank with > > your Angel's? > > > > > > Silver dollars are a popular fish to > > put in with Angel's, > > > > > > but they get > > > > > > big (bigger than the Angel's I think), > > I have never had any > > > > > > myself. But > > > > > > my LFS has some in stock, LOL. > > > > > > > > > > > > Amber > > > > > > > > > > > > nicurns@ > > <mailto:nicurns%40bellsouth.net> > > > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Amber, Thanks for replying. I > > don't see any aggressive > > > > > > behavior within > > > > > > > the tank except between the two > > angels at times. It > > > > > > almost appears as > > > > > > > though they are playing!!!LOL > > > > > > > The only other fish in that tank > > are 2 cory's and a > > > > > > medium sized > > > > > > > Pleco. The angels stay to > > themselves as do the cory's > > > > > > and I rarely see > > > > > > > the Pleco except an occasional > > darting whenever > > > > > > entering the room. > > > > > > > Regarding your angels.... Once > > they began spawning, > > > > > > how often did this > > > > > > > re-occur? Do you allow them to > > care for the babies or > > > > > > do you remove > > > > > > > them to a seperate tank? > > > > > > > I am planning on getting another > > larger angel or two, > > > > > > to go into this > > > > > > > tank but just having issues > > finding larger ones in my > > > > > > area. I have > > > > > > > purchased marine fish over the web > > in the past, but > > > > > > have not done so > > > > > > > with freshwater species yet. Maybe > > I'll start looking > > > > > > into this over > > > > > > > the next few weeks. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Thanks, > > > > > > > James S. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>, Amber > > > > > > Berglund <amber@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Angel's are not able to be > > sexed unless they are > > > > > > actively laying eggs > > > > > > > > (spawning). Their sexual > > organs are inside > > > > > > obviously ;) LOL. > > > > > > > > I have a mated pair of > > angel's and I just > > > > > > happened to get lucky that > > > > > > > > way, I started out with 2 and > > one died, so I > > > > > > replaced it with another > > > > > > > > and that 2nd one turned out > > to be female and my > > > > > > first was a male. > > > > > > > > Most people get groups of > > angel's and wait until > > > > > > they pair up to find a > > > > > > > > pair to mate. > > > > > > > > Are your angel's showing any > > sign of mating > > > > > > behavior at all? When mine > > > > > > > > get ready to lay eggs they > > will chase all the > > > > > > other fish to the other > > > > > > > > side of the tank and start > > cleaning a spot to lay > > > > > > their eggs on (while > > > > > > > > the other one guards for > > intruders the female > > > > > > will start to lay the > > > > > > > > eggs, then they take turns > > guarding while the > > > > > > male fertilizes the > > > > > > > eggs). > > > > > > > > If you haven't seen too much > > aggression towards > > > > > > your other fish and the > > > > > > > > other 2 teaming up together > > and chasing the other > > > > > > fish away then I'd > > > > > > > > have to guess you have 2 of > > the same sex. > > > > > > > > It may be hard to introduce > > smaller angel's at > > > > > > this point in time as > > > > > > > the > > > > > > > > bigger ones will pick on the > > smaller ones. > > > > > > > > I suppose you could slowly > > try introducing some > > > > > > new angel's with a tank > > > > > > > > divider and see how > > aggressive the big ones are > > > > > > with the divider in. If > > > > > > > > they are really aggressive > > and attack at the > > > > > > divider then you may have > > > > > > > > to wait until the smaller > > angel's get closer in > > > > > > size to the big ones, > > > > > > > > you can speed up that process > > (a little) by > > > > > > frequent water changes and > > > > > > > > feeding the young Angel's > > really well, just make > > > > > > sure to keep the water > > > > > > > > changes going (don't go > > overboard on them, once a > > > > > > day should me more > > > > > > > > than plenty if you're doing > > 25% changes), this > > > > > > helps remove the > > > > > > > hormones > > > > > > > > from the water so the fish > > will grow a little > > > > > > faster. Unless you can > > > > > > > > talk to the breeder some how > > and see if they > > > > > > might be willing to trade > > > > > > > > you a mated pair ;) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Amber > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > nicurns@ wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Hello all. My name is > > James and I live in > > > > > > UpState South Carolina. I > > > > > > > > > have been keeping fish > > for more years than I > > > > > > would like to admit, and > > > > > > > > > every 5 years or so I > > mix everything up and > > > > > > change what I am keeping. > > > > > > > > > Currently we have a > > 1200-1500 gal pond that > > > > > > I built, and rebuilt, and > > > > > > > > > of course rebuilt again. > > I am happy with my > > > > > > final result for now, but > > > > > > > > > do keep it in the back > > of my head that > > > > > > Bigger is Better, so who > > > > > > > knows??? > > > > > > > > > We have goldfish up to > > 13" long with their > > > > > > offspring that have not > > > > > > > > > been taken by the Heron > > during the winter. I > > > > > > also have 2 medium size > > > > > > > > > butterfly Koi and over > > abundance of plants. > > > > > > > > > Indoors, we have a 58gal > > FW tank with a > > > > > > 30gal sum-filter (making > > > > > > > > > between 80 and 90 gal's > > give or take),and 2 > > > > > > external filters as well > > > > > > > > > housing 2 large Angels, > > 2 cory's, and a > > > > > > pleco. This tank was a Reef > > > > > > > > > tank for many years, but > > I am over all that > > > > > > work!!!!!! We also have a > > > > > > > > > smaller tank that have a > > single LionHead > > > > > > Goldfish that is sooo > > > > > > > > > friendly that he eats > > from your hand. He may > > > > > > be going to the pond for > > > > > > > > > the summer... > > > > > > > > > I've had all types of > > fish over the years, > > > > > > but never angel's until > > > > > > > > > around 8 months ago. I > > visited our LSF, and > > > > > > they had a tank full of > > > > > > > > > nickel sized babies that > > another customer > > > > > > had breed. I actually met > > > > > > > > > the breeder in the > > store, and he has Angel's > > > > > > and Discus. I bought > > > > > > > 6 of > > > > > > > > > the babies, and they all > > did great until 3 > > > > > > months back when something > > > > > > > > > went wacky and I lost > > one after another in a > > > > > > span of two weeks. Well > > > > > > > > > the remaining 2 are now > > hugh (4-5" > > > > > > diameter). I would like them to > > > > > > > > > breed or get another one > > to go in with them, > > > > > > but I don't know if I > > > > > > > > > have a mixed pair, two > > males, or two > > > > > > females. Does anyone have any > > > > > > > > > ideas on how to sex > > them? > > > > > > > > > James S. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ------------------------------------ > > > > > > > > > > > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING > > below it when > > > > > > replying, Thank You. > > > > > > > > ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> > > > > > > ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , > > .·´¯`·..><((((º> > > > > > > PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, > > DELETE all TEXT that is > > > > > > NOT important to the reply & if > > CHANGING the TOPIC of > > > > > > the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT > > LINE -> i.e. "new > > > > > > subject (was re: old subject)" <- > > > > > > > > <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. > > > > > > , > > .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. > > > > > > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP > > in this matter. > > > > > > > > > > > > If you do not want all of the groups > > emails, instead of > > > > > > unsubscribing, you can change your > > delivery option by > > > > > > clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the > > home page. > > > > > > > > > > > > Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com > > > > > <mailto:aquaticlife-digest%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > <mailto:aquaticlife-digest%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > to receive the digest, which includes > > up to 25 posts at a > > > > > > time in a single email > > > > > > > > > > > > Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com > > > > > <mailto:aquaticlife-nomail%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > <mailto:aquaticlife-nomail%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > for the No E-Mail option where you will > > still be able to > > > > > > read messages on the group and post > > replies. > > > > > > > > > > > > Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com > > > > > <mailto:aquaticlife-normal%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > <mailto:aquaticlife-normal%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > to receive individual e-mails.Yahoo! > > Groups Links > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > mailto:AquaticLife-fullfeatured@yahoogroups.com > > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife-fullfeatured%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife-fullfeatured%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ------------------------------------ > > > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when > > replying, Thank You. > > ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> > > ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> > > PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is > > NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of > > the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new > > subject (was re: old subject)" <- > > <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. > > , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. > > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. > > > > If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of > > unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by > > clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the home page.  > > > > Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com > > to receive the digest, which includes up to 25 posts at a > > time in a single email > > > > Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com > > for the No E-Mail option where you will still be able to > > read messages on the group and post replies. > > > > Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com > > to receive individual e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > >     mailto:AquaticLife-fullfeatured@yahoogroups.com > > > > > > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 41024	From: Raymond Wetzel	Date: 6/19/2009
Subject: Re: Sexing AngelFish?

Amber, Glad to see you're not angry. As for you perceiving me as coming across as mean sometimes, could it possibly be just that -- in the way you happen to perceive me at the time? I never thought of myself as trying to be mean, nor did I intend to be. Adding on to the use of Tetras (etc.) as dither fish when breeding Angelfish, they can sometimes be used with Angel pairs that need to have their attention drawn away from their eggs or wriggler fry (non-free-swimming) to lessen the possibility of these pairs eating their eggs (I'm not recommending them, though). The dither fish may strengthen the parenting instinct. BUT, just as possible when using dither fish is the increased possibility of any Angelfish pair eating their eggs or fry, if they feel that these other fish may gain the advantage and get past their (the pair's) defenses to devour the eggs. There is a very fine line here of balance between the influence (in size and numbers) of the dither fish and the way the Angelfish pair may see their defensive efforts as successful or a possible failure if they feel they may be overwhelmed -- even if their assumptions are ill-conceived. Angelfish would rather eat their eggs to retain this energy for a future spawning when the area is safer, than to have intruder fish eat there eggs and all the energies (food consumption, conditioning) that went into this spawn. As you can see, the use of any Tetras or such with breeding Angels is more often than not a poor idea. Ray --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, Amber Berglund <amber@...> wrote: > > Ray and Bill, > I was not as angry in my post as you guys seem to think I was, I was > only pointing out that Ray comes across as mean at times, even if he > doesn't mean to be. > I thought I also stated somewhere in my post to James that I have never > had to put tetras in my tank to get my Angelfish to breed so it was not > my experience that it was needed to be done, it was merely a suggestion > is all. > I really don't mind being corrected, I'd rather have the right > information than the wrong information and pass it on. > And what sun Bill? I live in Alaska ;) LOL > > Amber > > bill 1433 wrote: > > > > > > > > Hi Amber, > > > > You must remember, nearly all comments made here including Ray's, come > > from the author's own personal experience. They do and say the best > > that they can BUT they are YOUR fish. > > > > I say that to you because as good as their advise is THEY have not > > seen the fish personally. They are basing their information on a > > "here's what happened to me" scenario. > > What Ray and others tell you, as I do some time, is exactly what > > happened to them. > > > > Angel fish are not much different than Discus or any other Cichlid. > > BUT, each set of prospective pairs does have their own nuance. > > Sometime with Cichlids all that is needed is regular or a bit larger > > than normal, water change. Sometimes just the simple matter of > > turning the heat up a degree or two. All fish ARE different. Their > > are some simple guide lines and do's and don'ts but that is all Ray is > > trying to point out. He has, and to the best of my knowledge, still > > is working with and breeding Angel Fish. He may not be the "World's > > Leading Authority" but he is simply trying to help you over-come > > difficulties that are easily managed and prevent any damage to the fish. > > > > I'm afraid this is the one great draw backs to the Internet. There is > > a great deal of information on it but it's accuracy in many cases is > > changeling at best. > > > > Keep some sun on your face, > > > > Bill > > > > --- On Thu, 6/18/09, Amber Berglund <amber@... > > <mailto:amber%40rose-fields.com>> wrote: > > > > > From: Amber Berglund <amber@... > > <mailto:amber%40rose-fields.com>> > > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: Sexing AngelFish? > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > Date: Thursday, June 18, 2009, 9:45 PM > > > I don't hold onto all the links I > > > read like Lenny does, so I have no > > > idea what breeder site on Angel's I read that on. > > > I don't mind being corrected Ray, but sometimes I wish you > > > weren't quite > > > so mean about it sometimes, I didn't see you offering him > > > any help on > > > getting his Angel's to breed and I was doing my best with > > > what info I > > > have read on them, and since I have no problems getting > > > mine to spawn I > > > was trying to pass on tips that I had read elsewhere. > > > If I was writing a paper on breeding Angel's then I could > > > understand > > > asking for all of my sources and page info but I'm just > > > trying to help > > > someone out with the info that I had found when I was > > > researching. Guess > > > I will just stick to the info that I personally have > > > experienced since I > > > seem to be wrong so often when I try to pass on info that > > > I've read. > > > > > > Amber > > > > > > Raymond Wetzel wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > NO, Not So! I don't know where you read that, but I > > > wonder if perhaps > > > > you misread it, If not, whoever wrote that is wrong, > > > other fish in the > > > > tank WILL NOT induce any Angelfish to spawn. Could you > > > please tell me > > > > where you read this? I would tend to doubt that it > > > woyuld be in any > > > > well-penned book, as this kind of erroneous info has a > > > way of getting > > > > itself known as such as it spreads throughout the > > > hobby. I did notice > > > > that you advised James of this; just another case of > > > you can't believe > > > > all you read. If it was on a web site, I can > > > understand that -- no one > > > > should put complete faith in everything they read up > > > there, and pass > > > > it along, without knowing if it's true. > > > > > > > > Tetras, or any other small fish, when put with a > > > breeding pair of any > > > > species of substrate-sawning Cichlids are intended to > > > draw the > > > > attention of either one of the more aggressive > > > partners of the pair > > > > away from the other partner so that the least > > > aggressive partner does > > > > not take the full aggression of the more overbearing > > > one. > > > > > > > > They (these "dither fish") act to initiate the > > > territorial behavior of > > > > both partners of the breesding pair so that they act > > > in symphony with > > > > each other towards one goal -- to keep the intruders > > > out of the > > > > breeding area. In this way, attention is drawn to > > > these dither fish, > > > > rather than each other. The pair is more apt to act in > > > harmony rather > > > > than one beating up on the other. This methods of > > > using dither fish is > > > > usually reserved for much more aggressive Cichlids. > > > Most Angelfish > > > > pairs do not need dither fish with them, nor will > > > these dither fish > > > > induce their spawning. They will spawn when they want > > > to spawn. Most > > > > good young pairs will spawn every eight days once they > > > start spawning, > > > > when allowed (when you pull the slate, to set their > > > breeding cycle > > > > going again). They will taper off after about 2 1/2 > > > years of age (they > > > > will start spawning between 7 and 8 months, usually > > > closer to 9 > > > > months). Ray > > > > > > > > ---In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>, Amber > > > Berglund <amber@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > I've read from some breeders that some Angelfish > > > need activity in the > > > > > tank from other fish to help induce breeding > > > habits, but mine don't > > > > seem > > > > > to have any problem with that so far, will have > > > to see how they act > > > > alone. > > > > > > > > > > Amber > > > > > > > > > > bill 1433 wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Amber, > > > > > > > > > > > > If you hit those Angels at a wrong time the > > > life-expediency of > > > > > > those Tetra's will be about 5 minutes! Once > > > you give the fish their > > > > > > own tank, best leave it that way and save on > > > your tetra pennies! > > > > > > > > > > > > Bill > > > > > > > > > > > > --- On Thu, 6/18/09, Amber Berglund > > > <amber@ > > > > > > <mailto:amber%40rose-fields.com>> > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > From: Amber Berglund <amber@ > > > > > > <mailto:amber%40rose-fields.com>> > > > > > > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: Sexing > > > AngelFish? > > > > > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > Date: Thursday, June 18, 2009, 5:09 PM > > > > > > > Shipping freshwater fish tends to be > > > > > > > less stressful on the fish than > > > > > > > saltwater from what I have heard > > > (rumors), but I don't have > > > > > > > saltwater > > > > > > > tanks either, so I'm not sure > > > personally. > > > > > > > Mine seem to go into their spawning > > > behavior about once a > > > > > > > month or so. I > > > > > > > leave the eggs in the tank and when I > > > move my 2 angel's > > > > > > > over to their > > > > > > > own 55 gallon I will let them raise > > > them by themselves. > > > > > > > Some breeders also put in faster > > > swimming tetras to help > > > > > > > induce breeding > > > > > > > too, you may have a mated pair and not > > > know it as they > > > > > > > haven't felt the > > > > > > > desire to breed just yet. Have you ever > > > had any middle > > > > > > > swimming fast > > > > > > > fish such as tetra's in the tank with > > > your Angel's? > > > > > > > Silver dollars are a popular fish to > > > put in with Angel's, > > > > > > > but they get > > > > > > > big (bigger than the Angel's I think), > > > I have never had any > > > > > > > myself. But > > > > > > > my LFS has some in stock, LOL. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Amber > > > > > > > > > > > > > > nicurns@ > > > <mailto:nicurns%40bellsouth.net> > > > > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Amber, Thanks for replying. I > > > don't see any aggressive > > > > > > > behavior within > > > > > > > > the tank except between the two > > > angels at times. It > > > > > > > almost appears as > > > > > > > > though they are playing!!!LOL > > > > > > > > The only other fish in that tank > > > are 2 cory's and a > > > > > > > medium sized > > > > > > > > Pleco. The angels stay to > > > themselves as do the cory's > > > > > > > and I rarely see > > > > > > > > the Pleco except an occasional > > > darting whenever > > > > > > > entering the room. > > > > > > > > Regarding your angels.... Once > > > they began spawning, > > > > > > > how often did this > > > > > > > > re-occur? Do you allow them to > > > care for the babies or > > > > > > > do you remove > > > > > > > > them to a seperate tank? > > > > > > > > I am planning on getting another > > > larger angel or two, > > > > > > > to go into this > > > > > > > > tank but just having issues > > > finding larger ones in my > > > > > > > area. I have > > > > > > > > purchased marine fish over the web > > > in the past, but > > > > > > > have not done so > > > > > > > > with freshwater species yet. Maybe > > > I'll start looking > > > > > > > into this over > > > > > > > > the next few weeks. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Thanks, > > > > > > > > James S. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>, Amber > > > > > > > Berglund <amber@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Angel's are not able to be > > > sexed unless they are > > > > > > > actively laying eggs > > > > > > > > > (spawning). Their sexual > > > organs are inside > > > > > > > obviously ;) LOL. > > > > > > > > > I have a mated pair of > > > angel's and I just > > > > > > > happened to get lucky that > > > > > > > > > way, I started out with 2 and > > > one died, so I > > > > > > > replaced it with another > > > > > > > > > and that 2nd one turned out > > > to be female and my > > > > > > > first was a male. > > > > > > > > > Most people get groups of > > > angel's and wait until > > > > > > > they pair up to find a > > > > > > > > > pair to mate. > > > > > > > > > Are your angel's showing any > > > sign of mating > > > > > > > behavior at all? When mine > > > > > > > > > get ready to lay eggs they > > > will chase all the > > > > > > > other fish to the other > > > > > > > > > side of the tank and start > > > cleaning a spot to lay > > > > > > > their eggs on (while > > > > > > > > > the other one guards for > > > intruders the female > > > > > > > will start to lay the > > > > > > > > > eggs, then they take turns > > > guarding while the > > > > > > > male fertilizes the > > > > > > > > eggs). > > > > > > > > > If you haven't seen too much > > > aggression towards > > > > > > > your other fish and the > > > > > > > > > other 2 teaming up together > > > and chasing the other > > > > > > > fish away then I'd > > > > > > > > > have to guess you have 2 of > > > the same sex. > > > > > > > > > It may be hard to introduce > > > smaller angel's at > > > > > > > this point in time as > > > > > > > > the > > > > > > > > > bigger ones will pick on the > > > smaller ones. > > > > > > > > > I suppose you could slowly > > > try introducing some > > > > > > > new angel's with a tank > > > > > > > > > divider and see how > > > aggressive the big ones are > > > > > > > with the divider in. If > > > > > > > > > they are really aggressive > > > and attack at the > > > > > > > divider then you may have > > > > > > > > > to wait until the smaller > > > angel's get closer in > > > > > > > size to the big ones, > > > > > > > > > you can speed up that process > > > (a little) by > > > > > > > frequent water changes and > > > > > > > > > feeding the young Angel's > > > really well, just make > > > > > > > sure to keep the water > > > > > > > > > changes going (don't go > > > overboard on them, once a > > > > > > > day should me more > > > > > > > > > than plenty if you're doing > > > 25% changes), this > > > > > > > helps remove the > > > > > > > > hormones > > > > > > > > > from the water so the fish > > > will grow a little > > > > > > > faster. Unless you can > > > > > > > > > talk to the breeder some how > > > and see if they > > > > > > > might be willing to trade > > > > > > > > > you a mated pair ;) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Amber > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > nicurns@ wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Hello all. My name is > > > James and I live in > > > > > > > UpState South Carolina. I > > > > > > > > > > have been keeping fish > > > for more years than I > > > > > > > would like to admit, and > > > > > > > > > > every 5 years or so I > > > mix everything up and > > > > > > > change what I am keeping. > > > > > > > > > > Currently we have a > > > 1200-1500 gal pond that > > > > > > > I built, and rebuilt, and > > > > > > > > > > of course rebuilt again. > > > I am happy with my > > > > > > > final result for now, but > > > > > > > > > > do keep it in the back > > > of my head that > > > > > > > Bigger is Better, so who > > > > > > > > knows??? > > > > > > > > > > We have goldfish up to > > > 13" long with their > > > > > > > offspring that have not > > > > > > > > > > been taken by the Heron > > > during the winter. I > > > > > > > also have 2 medium size > > > > > > > > > > butterfly Koi and over > > > abundance of plants. > > > > > > > > > > Indoors, we have a 58gal > > > FW tank with a > > > > > > > 30gal sum-filter (making > > > > > > > > > > between 80 and 90 gal's > > > give or take),and 2 > > > > > > > external filters as well > > > > > > > > > > housing 2 large Angels, > > > 2 cory's, and a > > > > > > > pleco. This tank was a Reef > > > > > > > > > > tank for many years, but > > > I am over all that > > > > > > > work!!!!!! We also have a > > > > > > > > > > smaller tank that have a > > > single LionHead > > > > > > > Goldfish that is sooo > > > > > > > > > > friendly that he eats > > > from your hand. He may > > > > > > > be going to the pond for > > > > > > > > > > the summer... > > > > > > > > > > I've had all types of > > > fish over the years, > > > > > > > but never angel's until > > > > > > > > > > around 8 months ago. I > > > visited our LSF, and > > > > > > > they had a tank full of > > > > > > > > > > nickel sized babies that > > > another customer > > > > > > > had breed. I actually met > > > > > > > > > > the breeder in the > > > store, and he has Angel's > > > > > > > and Discus. I bought > > > > > > > > 6 of > > > > > > > > > > the babies, and they all > > > did great until 3 > > > > > > > months back when something > > > > > > > > > > went wacky and I lost > > > one after another in a > > > > > > > span of two weeks. Well > > > > > > > > > > the remaining 2 are now > > > hugh (4-5" > > > > > > > diameter). I would like them to > > > > > > > > > > breed or get another one > > > to go in with them, > > > > > > > but I don't know if I > > > > > > > > > > have a mixed pair, two > > > males, or two > > > > > > > females. Does anyone have any > > > > > > > > > > ideas on how to sex > > > them? > > > > > > > > > > James S. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ------------------------------------ > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING > > > below it when > > > > > > > replying, Thank You. > > > > > > > > > > ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> > > > > > > > ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , > > > .·´¯`·..><((((º> > > > > > > > PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, > > > DELETE all TEXT that is > > > > > > > NOT important to the reply & if > > > CHANGING the TOPIC of > > > > > > > the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT > > > LINE -> i.e. "new > > > > > > > subject (was re: old subject)" <- > > > > > > > > > > <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. > > > > > > > , > > > .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. > > > > > > > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP > > > in this matter. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > If you do not want all of the groups > > > emails, instead of > > > > > > > unsubscribing, you can change your > > > delivery option by > > > > > > > clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the > > > home page. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com > > <mailto:aquaticlife-digest%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > <mailto:aquaticlife-digest%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > > > <mailto:aquaticlife-digest%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > to receive the digest, which includes > > > up to 25 posts at a > > > > > > > time in a single email > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com > > <mailto:aquaticlife-nomail%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > <mailto:aquaticlife-nomail%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > > > <mailto:aquaticlife-nomail%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > for the No E-Mail option where you will > > > still be able to > > > > > > > read messages on the group and post > > > replies. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com > > <mailto:aquaticlife-normal%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > <mailto:aquaticlife-normal%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > > > <mailto:aquaticlife-normal%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > to receive individual e-mails.Yahoo! > > > Groups Links > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > mailto:AquaticLife-fullfeatured@yahoogroups.com > > <mailto:AquaticLife-fullfeatured%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife-fullfeatured%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife-fullfeatured%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ------------------------------------ > > > > > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when > > > replying, Thank You. > > > ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> > > > ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> > > > PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is > > > NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of > > > the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new > > > subject (was re: old subject)" <- > > > <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. > > > , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. > > > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. > > > > > > If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of > > > unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by > > > clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the home page. > > > > > > Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com > > <mailto:aquaticlife-digest%40yahoogroups.com> > > > to receive the digest, which includes up to 25 posts at a > > > time in a single email > > > > > > Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com > > <mailto:aquaticlife-nomail%40yahoogroups.com> > > > for the No E-Mail option where you will still be able to > > > read messages on the group and post replies. > > > > > > Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com > > <mailto:aquaticlife-normal%40yahoogroups.com> > > > to receive individual e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > > > > mailto:AquaticLife-fullfeatured@yahoogroups.com > > <mailto:AquaticLife-fullfeatured%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 41025	From: Raymond Wetzel	Date: 6/19/2009
Subject: Re: Sexing AngelFish?

Et Tu, Brute'? LOL, LOL, LOL, Ray --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, bill 1433 <warrenprint@...> wrote: > > > Lenny, > > In a small way, being a member of this "club", I believe both references are entirely accurate! > > ol'bill > > --- On Thu, 6/18/09, Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@...> wrote: > > > From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@...> > > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: Sexing AngelFish? > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > Date: Thursday, June 18, 2009, 11:41 PM > > \\Steve//, > > > > Did you mean "old fogeys" or "grumpy old men"?  > > > > LOL > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > > (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed > > on the right > > side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives > > by Year, Month) > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] > > On > > Behalf Of Steve Szabo > > Sent: Thursday, June 18, 2009 10:08 PM > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: Sexing AngelFish? > > > > Amber, > > > > As you become more experienced, you will learn to be more > > discriminating > > with information you find on the web, in published > > articles, and even in > > books, especially when it goes against your personal > > experience. > > > > Ray is really a nice guy, he really is. He simply wanted a > > reference to the > > material you were passing along so he could check it out > > himself. > > The problem is that written communication does not always > > come across as you > > mean it to. Since I do know Ray (us old fogeys in the hobby > > need to stick > > together), I can read the message as he probably meant it., > > instead of > > reading it verbatim as you have. You need to learn to take > > what is said in > > e-mail with a little grain of salt rather than taking > > offense immediately. > > If ray meant to cut you down, believe me, you would have > > known it. > > > > \\Steve// > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] > > On Behalf Of Amber Berglund > > Sent: Thursday, June 18, 2009 9:46 PM > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: Sexing AngelFish? > > > > I don't hold onto all the links I read like Lenny does, so > > I have no idea > > what breeder site on Angel's I read that on. > > I don't mind being corrected Ray, but sometimes I wish you > > weren't quite > > > > so mean about it sometimes, I didn't see you offering him > > any help on > > getting his Angel's to breed and I was doing my best with > > what info I have > > read on them, and since I have no problems getting mine to > > spawn I was > > trying to pass on tips that I had read elsewhere. > > If I was writing a paper on breeding Angel's then I could > > understand asking > > for all of my sources and page info but I'm just trying to > > help someone out > > with the info that I had found when I was researching. > > Guess > > > > I will just stick to the info that I personally have > > experienced since I > > > > seem to be wrong so often when I try to pass on info that > > I've read. > > > > Amber > > > > Raymond Wetzel wrote: > > > > > > > > > NO, Not So! I don't know where you read that, but I > > wonder if perhaps > > > you misread it, If not, whoever wrote that is wrong, > > other fish in the > > > > > tank WILL NOT induce any Angelfish to spawn. Could you > > please tell me > > > where you read this? I would tend to doubt that it > > woyuld be in any > > > well-penned book, as this kind of erroneous info has a > > way of getting > > > itself known as such as it spreads throughout the > > hobby. I did notice > > > that you advised James of this; just another case of > > you can't believe > > > > > all you read. If it was on a web site, I can > > understand that -- no one > > > > > should put complete faith in everything they read up > > there, and pass > > > it along, without knowing if it's true. > > > > > > Tetras, or any other small fish, when put with a > > breeding pair of any > > > species of substrate-sawning Cichlids are intended to > > draw the > > > attention of either one of the more aggressive > > partners of the pair > > > away from the other partner so that the least > > aggressive partner does > > > not take the full aggression of the more overbearing > > one. > > > > > > They (these "dither fish") act to initiate the > > territorial behavior of > > > > > both partners of the breesding pair so that they act > > in symphony with > > > each other towards one goal -- to keep the intruders > > out of the > > > breeding area. In this way, attention is drawn to > > these dither fish, > > > rather than each other. The pair is more apt to act in > > harmony rather > > > than one beating up on the other. This methods of > > using dither fish is > > > > > usually reserved for much more aggressive Cichlids. > > Most Angelfish > > > pairs do not need dither fish with them, nor will > > these dither fish > > > induce their spawning. They will spawn when they want > > to spawn. Most > > > good young pairs will spawn every eight days once they > > start spawning, > > > > > when allowed (when you pull the slate, to set their > > breeding cycle > > > going again). They will taper off after about 2 1/2 > > years of age (they > > > > > will start spawning between 7 and 8 months, usually > > closer to 9 > > > months). Ray > > > > > > ---In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>, Amber > > Berglund <amber@> > > wrote: > > > > > > > > I've read from some breeders that some Angelfish > > need activity in > > the > > > > tank from other fish to help induce breeding > > habits, but mine don't > > > seem > > > > to have any problem with that so far, will have > > to see how they act > > > alone. > > > > > > > > Amber > > > > > > > > bill 1433 wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Amber, > > > > > > > > > > If you hit those Angels at a wrong time the > > life-expediency of > > > > > those Tetra's will be about 5 minutes! Once > > you give the fish > > their > > > > > own tank, best leave it that way and save on > > your tetra pennies! > > > > > > > > > > Bill > > > > > > > > > > > > > ------------------------------------ > > > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when > > replying, Thank You. > > ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> > > ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> > > PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is > > NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of > > the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new > > subject (was re: old subject)" <- > > <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. > > , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. > > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. > > > > If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of > > unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by > > clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the home page.  > > > > Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com > > to receive the digest, which includes up to 25 posts at a > > time in a single email > > > > Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com > > for the No E-Mail option where you will still be able to > > read messages on the group and post replies. > > > > Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com > > to receive individual e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > >     mailto:AquaticLife-fullfeatured@yahoogroups.com > > > > > > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 41026	From: Robert Mazur	Date: 6/19/2009
Subject: Re: Gonna sound like a dumb question.

Steve: I'm in Schweinfurt, which is north (I think) of Mannheim by about an hour. I am currently back Stateside for school and won't return untl September, but I'm starting to scope everything out. Shakey -- Thanks for the advice. I am going to look at those sites over the weekend while I'm recovering from today's 5 mile run. :). Rob On Thu, Jun 18, 2009 at 11:25 PM, Steve Szabo <steve@...> wrote: > > > Rob, > > The price does seem high to me also, but, then again, I am not real > familiar with European pricing. > > Where are you located? I do have an acquaintance who is German, and lives > in Germany (imagine that, a German in Germany) and can e-mail him to see if > he is close to you and able to give some advice for your area. When I > travel, I hit the phone book to find shops in an area that I may be staying, > and while the shops may not be that good, it does give me a chance to check > them out and see what fish are being carried. In Germany, you may see a lot > of fish you are not familiar with from your experience on this side of the > ocean, and you are likely to see higher quality fish, and commensurately > higher prices. Europeans seem to want to pay for quality, unlike most > Americans. > > A for how long fish live, it depends on the fish. For instance, koi can > live to be well over 100 years old, where your betta's life span may only be > 3-4 years. There are fish (annual killifish) that at a year old are very old > fish, while there are a number where at 25 years, they are still young. > > \\Steve// > > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> [mailto: > AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On Behalf Of > Robert Mazur > Sent: Thursday, June 18, 2009 4:07 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Subject: [AquaticLife] Gonna sound like a dumb question. > > This is going to sound like a really dumb, n00bie question, but is $70 for > a > 5 gallon tank with all the accessories (hood, light, filter) an appropriate > > price? The reason that I ask is I am stationed in Germany now and left my > betta in the care of a friend of mine. I left the 1.5 gallon tank behind > too. My daughter is wanting fish again and at a local store I saw a 20L > (5.2 US Gal) tank for ���49.95 (Euro) which is roughly $70 (give or take, > depending on the conversion rate). > > Also, what sorts of fish get along in that size tank? And the other > question is, how long do fish usually live? Lastly, how would I go about > finding an aquatic shop in Germany? Anyone on this list in Europe and can > shed some light on the subject. > > Thanks! > > Rob > > -- > http://www.pbase.com/mazurgallery/ > http://themazurplace.blogspot.com/ > http://www.flickr.com/photos/rpmazur/ > http://s19.photobucket.com/albums/b185/rpmazur/ > > There are people who make things happen, there are people who watch things > happen, and there are people who wonder what happened. To be successful, > you > need to be a person who makes things happen.. > James A. Lovell > > > -- http://www.pbase.com/mazurgallery/ http://themazurplace.blogspot.com/ http://www.flickr.com/photos/rpmazur/ http://s19.photobucket.com/albums/b185/rpmazur/ There are people who make things happen, there are people who watch things happen, and there are people who wonder what happened. To be successful, you need to be a person who makes things happen.. James A. Lovell [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 41027	From: nicurns@bellsouth.net	Date: 6/19/2009
Subject: Re: New fish pond...need advice

Shannon, Having a pond is very enjoyable but is also work. Remember if you are planning to keep fish, YOU MUST be willing to do what's needed to support that life. In my experience with others who have tried container ponds with fish, they found they were too labor intense as the water either evaporates too quickly; gets too hot for the fish; stays too dirty; or they forget to feed the fish and find them dead. In a larger pond, you can forget to feed for days without problems as there is always something else for them to eat, here and there.... The only time container ponds are suitable for fish, are the larger ones say at least 4-5' X 3-5' with some depth. These are not that hard to create using blocks, railroad ties, bricks, etc.. and a liner with underlayment. Good luck!!!!! James S. --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "sgriscom_2" <sgriscom_2@...> wrote: > > Hello all, I live in Virginia and am planning my first pond. I am not in any hurry as I want to do it right. It was actually my husbands idea but guess who will be doing most of the work. He is stationed on a cutter right now and isn't home much but he wants to have one setup when he transfers to a land unit. I have been searching the net and have exhasted my local library in books of ponds and container gardens. I haven't decided on many things yet. I know I have clay soil that is very packed. I was thinking maybe to start with a large container garden on my screened porch but not sure if that is a good idea with fish or not. I thought that might be a good test before I start digging holes. From what I read fish can do well in container gardens but all the containers I've seen have been rather small. I don't currently know anyone personally that has a pond or any experiences with them so I'm hoping to get some good advice here. Hope you can help. Shannnon >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 41028	From: nicurns@bellsouth.net	Date: 6/19/2009
Subject: Re: Selling aquarium, besides craigslist where can I advertise?

Have you looked into Kijiji.com??? We have had good luck with finding pet things there and I believe it is nation wide. James S. --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "sweetpisces3180" <Mayberry2001@...> wrote: > > I've posted on craigslist but haven't gotten a response. I didn't exactly see a place on here to sell, and I'm wondering where else I can post? I don't want to pay to advert in a newspaper, etc. > > I have a 65 gallon freshwater aquarium with all the equipment needed, it's a very clean tank! But it's too small for my new apt. > > any ideas or interest in the DC metro area? >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 41029	From: Jim Pat.	Date: 6/19/2009
Subject: Re: Ugh, now I no longer have any rams left :(

Amber, Want any Krib's? My male/female have been busy, from the first bunch I have ~20 the size of neons and the new bunch is around 35. It's interesting how they "seperate" the other fish from their new batch.....If it wasn't so expensive to get them to Alaska I would send you 10 or 15.... So far I haven't found a local fish store that wants them... JIm --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, Amber Berglund <amber@...> wrote: > > Found my last ram dead this evening, I'm pretty sure it was the Angel's > fault. They've gone into spawning again and are nasty little buggers. I > was messing with the Rena xp4 and the male nipped me quite good, shocked > me because I wasn't looking and didn't expect it, when I jerked my arm > out of the tank I scared Spike (my severum) and he ran into hiding, LOL. > I urged the hubby to finish welding my stand together so I can set up > the 55 gallon for the Angel's, I already have their cycled media in the > Rena Xp 4 waiting to be transfered into the other filter that came with > the 55 gallon. Getting tired of them picking on all of the other fish, > I'm sure everyone will be glad when they go ;) > I think I know what I'm going to be ordering next on my fish order > (Rams, and I think I want to get some german ones this time so I can see > what they really look like in person, all the pictures seem to look so > similar between the bolivian's and the german blue rams). > > Amber >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 41030	From: nicurns@bellsouth.net	Date: 6/19/2009
Subject: Re: Sexing AngelFish?

Thanks for everyones responses and I'm sorry to have caused a heated debate. We are not into breeding at this time as I like to get to know a breed before I go that far. I'm just trying to find out what I have so who know's....in the future. Any time we have babies, we always give them away as well. I have helped start many ponds with goldies. We've also traded plat's and sailfin mollies that we converted over to full saltwater. I've always found that if you are in good with the locals, (pet stores, other aquarists, etc...) good fortune comes full circle. James S. --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Raymond Wetzel" <sevenspringss@...> wrote: > > Hi Bill, Actually, in re-reading James' post, while he'd like to breed them, the only thing he's asking about is how to sex them. I hadn't had the opportunity to reply to him early on, but I hope I was able to fill him in s best as I could mre recently. If anyone needs to know about actually breeding them, I'd be more than happy to try to brief some stuff here -- although reams have been written on this subject. And here, I'm not saying to refer to those many books, as I'd be more than pleased to help, but it could get quite lengthy for me. In fact, I guess I could even write a book on it, that's how much it could entail. Still, will give some briefs but informative ones, if anyone needs. > > Yes, I am still working with breeding Angelfish, as they're one of my joys. I'm presently using 16 pairs in my hatchery -- had 32 pairs going several years ago, but had to thin out as they were encroaching on the needed tank space for other species I like to work with. > > Quite true Bill, and it may have even been me who originally advised you of this (I don't remember), but I've written numerous times on the individuality of Angelfish and their distinctive behavior within the confines of the species. You may expect anything of any individual Angelfish, that is possible for an Angelfish to do. Likewise, with Angelfish pairs -- Each pair may be expected to behave somewhat differently from the next -- some very similarly, and some a bit more removed from other pairs in their behavior. Ray > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, bill 1433 <warrenprint@> wrote: > > > > > > Hi Amber, > > > > You must remember, nearly all comments made here including Ray's, come from the author's own personal experience. They do and say the best that they can BUT they are YOUR fish. > > > > I say that to you because as good as their advise is THEY have not seen the fish personally.  They are basing their information on a "here's what happened to me" scenario. > > What Ray and others tell you, as I do some time, is exactly what happened to them. > >   > > Angel fish are not much different than Discus or any other Cichlid.  BUT, each set of prospective pairs does have their own nuance.  Sometime with Cichlids all that is needed is regular or a bit larger than normal, water change.  Sometimes just the simple matter of turning the heat up a degree or two.  All fish ARE different.  Their are some simple guide lines and do's and don'ts but that is all Ray is trying to point out.  He has, and to the best of my knowledge, still is working with and breeding Angel Fish.  He may not be the "World's Leading Authority" but he is simply trying to help you over-come difficulties that are easily managed and prevent any damage to the fish. > >   > > I'm afraid this is the one great draw backs to the Internet.  There is a great deal of information on it but it's accuracy in many cases is changeling at best. > >   > > Keep some sun on your face, > >   > > Bill > > > > --- On Thu, 6/18/09, Amber Berglund <amber@> wrote: > > > > > From: Amber Berglund <amber@> > > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: Sexing AngelFish? > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > > Date: Thursday, June 18, 2009, 9:45 PM > > > I don't hold onto all the links I > > > read like Lenny does, so I have no > > > idea what breeder site on Angel's I read that on. > > > I don't mind being corrected Ray, but sometimes I wish you > > > weren't quite > > > so mean about it sometimes, I didn't see you offering him > > > any help on > > > getting his Angel's to breed and I was doing my best with > > > what info I > > > have read on them, and since I have no problems getting > > > mine to spawn I > > > was trying to pass on tips that I had read elsewhere. > > > If I was writing a paper on breeding Angel's then I could > > > understand > > > asking for all of my sources and page info but I'm just > > > trying to help > > > someone out with the info that I had found when I was > > > researching. Guess > > > I will just stick to the info that I personally have > > > experienced since I > > > seem to be wrong so often when I try to pass on info that > > > I've read. > > > > > > Amber > > > > > > Raymond Wetzel wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > NO, Not So! I don't know where you read that, but I > > > wonder if perhaps > > > > you misread it, If not, whoever wrote that is wrong, > > > other fish in the > > > > tank WILL NOT induce any Angelfish to spawn. Could you > > > please tell me > > > > where you read this? I would tend to doubt that it > > > woyuld be in any > > > > well-penned book, as this kind of erroneous info has a > > > way of getting > > > > itself known as such as it spreads throughout the > > > hobby. I did notice > > > > that you advised James of this; just another case of > > > you can't believe > > > > all you read. If it was on a web site, I can > > > understand that -- no one > > > > should put complete faith in everything they read up > > > there, and pass > > > > it along, without knowing if it's true. > > > > > > > > Tetras, or any other small fish, when put with a > > > breeding pair of any > > > > species of substrate-sawning Cichlids are intended to > > > draw the > > > > attention of either one of the more aggressive > > > partners of the pair > > > > away from the other partner so that the least > > > aggressive partner does > > > > not take the full aggression of the more overbearing > > > one. > > > > > > > > They (these "dither fish") act to initiate the > > > territorial behavior of > > > > both partners of the breesding pair so that they act > > > in symphony with > > > > each other towards one goal -- to keep the intruders > > > out of the > > > > breeding area. In this way, attention is drawn to > > > these dither fish, > > > > rather than each other. The pair is more apt to act in > > > harmony rather > > > > than one beating up on the other. This methods of > > > using dither fish is > > > > usually reserved for much more aggressive Cichlids. > > > Most Angelfish > > > > pairs do not need dither fish with them, nor will > > > these dither fish > > > > induce their spawning. They will spawn when they want > > > to spawn. Most > > > > good young pairs will spawn every eight days once they > > > start spawning, > > > > when allowed (when you pull the slate, to set their > > > breeding cycle > > > > going again). They will taper off after about 2 1/2 > > > years of age (they > > > > will start spawning between 7 and 8 months, usually > > > closer to 9 > > > > months). Ray > > > > > > > > ---In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>, Amber > > > Berglund <amber@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > I've read from some breeders that some Angelfish > > > need activity in the > > > > > tank from other fish to help induce breeding > > > habits, but mine don't > > > > seem > > > > > to have any problem with that so far, will have > > > to see how they act > > > > alone. > > > > > > > > > > Amber > > > > > > > > > > bill 1433 wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Amber, > > > > > > > > > > > > If you hit those Angels at a wrong time the > > > life-expediency of > > > > > > those Tetra's will be about 5 minutes! Once > > > you give the fish their > > > > > > own tank, best leave it that way and save on > > > your tetra pennies! > > > > > > > > > > > > Bill > > > > > > > > > > > > --- On Thu, 6/18/09, Amber Berglund > > > <amber@ > > > > > > <mailto:amber%40rose-fields.com>> > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > From: Amber Berglund <amber@ > > > > > > <mailto:amber%40rose-fields.com>> > > > > > > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: Sexing > > > AngelFish? > > > > > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > Date: Thursday, June 18, 2009, 5:09 PM > > > > > > > Shipping freshwater fish tends to be > > > > > > > less stressful on the fish than > > > > > > > saltwater from what I have heard > > > (rumors), but I don't have > > > > > > > saltwater > > > > > > > tanks either, so I'm not sure > > > personally. > > > > > > > Mine seem to go into their spawning > > > behavior about once a > > > > > > > month or so. I > > > > > > > leave the eggs in the tank and when I > > > move my 2 angel's > > > > > > > over to their > > > > > > > own 55 gallon I will let them raise > > > them by themselves. > > > > > > > Some breeders also put in faster > > > swimming tetras to help > > > > > > > induce breeding > > > > > > > too, you may have a mated pair and not > > > know it as they > > > > > > > haven't felt the > > > > > > > desire to breed just yet. Have you ever > > > had any middle > > > > > > > swimming fast > > > > > > > fish such as tetra's in the tank with > > > your Angel's? > > > > > > > Silver dollars are a popular fish to > > > put in with Angel's, > > > > > > > but they get > > > > > > > big (bigger than the Angel's I think), > > > I have never had any > > > > > > > myself. But > > > > > > > my LFS has some in stock, LOL. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Amber > > > > > > > > > > > > > > nicurns@ > > > <mailto:nicurns%40bellsouth.net> > > > > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Amber, Thanks for replying. I > > > don't see any aggressive > > > > > > > behavior within > > > > > > > > the tank except between the two > > > angels at times. It > > > > > > > almost appears as > > > > > > > > though they are playing!!!LOL > > > > > > > > The only other fish in that tank > > > are 2 cory's and a > > > > > > > medium sized > > > > > > > > Pleco. The angels stay to > > > themselves as do the cory's > > > > > > > and I rarely see > > > > > > > > the Pleco except an occasional > > > darting whenever > > > > > > > entering the room. > > > > > > > > Regarding your angels.... Once > > > they began spawning, > > > > > > > how often did this > > > > > > > > re-occur? Do you allow them to > > > care for the babies or > > > > > > > do you remove > > > > > > > > them to a seperate tank? > > > > > > > > I am planning on getting another > > > larger angel or two, > > > > > > > to go into this > > > > > > > > tank but just having issues > > > finding larger ones in my > > > > > > > area. I have > > > > > > > > purchased marine fish over the web > > > in the past, but > > > > > > > have not done so > > > > > > > > with freshwater species yet. Maybe > > > I'll start looking > > > > > > > into this over > > > > > > > > the next few weeks. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Thanks, > > > > > > > > James S. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>, Amber > > > > > > > Berglund <amber@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Angel's are not able to be > > > sexed unless they are > > > > > > > actively laying eggs > > > > > > > > > (spawning). Their sexual > > > organs are inside > > > > > > > obviously ;) LOL. > > > > > > > > > I have a mated pair of > > > angel's and I just > > > > > > > happened to get lucky that > > > > > > > > > way, I started out with 2 and > > > one died, so I > > > > > > > replaced it with another > > > > > > > > > and that 2nd one turned out > > > to be female and my > > > > > > > first was a male. > > > > > > > > > Most people get groups of > > > angel's and wait until > > > > > > > they pair up to find a > > > > > > > > > pair to mate. > > > > > > > > > Are your angel's showing any > > > sign of mating > > > > > > > behavior at all? When mine > > > > > > > > > get ready to lay eggs they > > > will chase all the > > > > > > > other fish to the other > > > > > > > > > side of the tank and start > > > cleaning a spot to lay > > > > > > > their eggs on (while > > > > > > > > > the other one guards for > > > intruders the female > > > > > > > will start to lay the > > > > > > > > > eggs, then they take turns > > > guarding while the > > > > > > > male fertilizes the > > > > > > > > eggs). > > > > > > > > > If you haven't seen too much > > > aggression towards > > > > > > > your other fish and the > > > > > > > > > other 2 teaming up together > > > and chasing the other > > > > > > > fish away then I'd > > > > > > > > > have to guess you have 2 of > > > the same sex. > > > > > > > > > It may be hard to introduce > > > smaller angel's at > > > > > > > this point in time as > > > > > > > > the > > > > > > > > > bigger ones will pick on the > > > smaller ones. > > > > > > > > > I suppose you could slowly > > > try introducing some > > > > > > > new angel's with a tank > > > > > > > > > divider and see how > > > aggressive the big ones are > > > > > > > with the divider in. If > > > > > > > > > they are really aggressive > > > and attack at the > > > > > > > divider then you may have > > > > > > > > > to wait until the smaller > > > angel's get closer in > > > > > > > size to the big ones, > > > > > > > > > you can speed up that process > > > (a little) by > > > > > > > frequent water changes and > > > > > > > > > feeding the young Angel's > > > really well, just make > > > > > > > sure to keep the water > > > > > > > > > changes going (don't go > > > overboard on them, once a > > > > > > > day should me more > > > > > > > > > than plenty if you're doing > > > 25% changes), this > > > > > > > helps remove the > > > > > > > > hormones > > > > > > > > > from the water so the fish > > > will grow a little > > > > > > > faster. Unless you can > > > > > > > > > talk to the breeder some how > > > and see if they > > > > > > > might be willing to trade > > > > > > > > > you a mated pair ;) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Amber > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > nicurns@ wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Hello all. My name is > > > James and I live in > > > > > > > UpState South Carolina. I > > > > > > > > > > have been keeping fish > > > for more years than I > > > > > > > would like to admit, and > > > > > > > > > > every 5 years or so I > > > mix everything up and > > > > > > > change what I am keeping. > > > > > > > > > > Currently we have a > > > 1200-1500 gal pond that > > > > > > > I built, and rebuilt, and > > > > > > > > > > of course rebuilt again. > > > I am happy with my > > > > > > > final result for now, but > > > > > > > > > > do keep it in the back > > > of my head that > > > > > > > Bigger is Better, so who > > > > > > > > knows??? > > > > > > > > > > We have goldfish up to > > > 13" long with their > > > > > > > offspring that have not > > > > > > > > > > been taken by the Heron > > > during the winter. I > > > > > > > also have 2 medium size > > > > > > > > > > butterfly Koi and over > > > abundance of plants. > > > > > > > > > > Indoors, we have a 58gal > > > FW tank with a > > > > > > > 30gal sum-filter (making > > > > > > > > > > between 80 and 90 gal's > > > give or take),and 2 > > > > > > > external filters as well > > > > > > > > > > housing 2 large Angels, > > > 2 cory's, and a > > > > > > > pleco. This tank was a Reef > > > > > > > > > > tank for many years, but > > > I am over all that > > > > > > > work!!!!!! We also have a > > > > > > > > > > smaller tank that have a > > > single LionHead > > > > > > > Goldfish that is sooo > > > > > > > > > > friendly that he eats > > > from your hand. He may > > > > > > > be going to the pond for > > > > > > > > > > the summer... > > > > > > > > > > I've had all types of > > > fish over the years, > > > > > > > but never angel's until > > > > > > > > > > around 8 months ago. I > > > visited our LSF, and > > > > > > > they had a tank full of > > > > > > > > > > nickel sized babies that > > > another customer > > > > > > > had breed. I actually met > > > > > > > > > > the breeder in the > > > store, and he has Angel's > > > > > > > and Discus. I bought > > > > > > > > 6 of > > > > > > > > > > the babies, and they all > > > did great until 3 > > > > > > > months back when something > > > > > > > > > > went wacky and I lost > > > one after another in a > > > > > > > span of two weeks. Well > > > > > > > > > > the remaining 2 are now > > > hugh (4-5" > > > > > > > diameter). I would like them to > > > > > > > > > > breed or get another one > > > to go in with them, > > > > > > > but I don't know if I > > > > > > > > > > have a mixed pair, two > > > males, or two > > > > > > > females. Does anyone have any > > > > > > > > > > ideas on how to sex > > > them? > > > > > > > > > > James S. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ------------------------------------ > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING > > > below it when > > > > > > > replying, Thank You. > > > > > > > > > > ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> > > > > > > > ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , > > > .·´¯`·..><((((º> > > > > > > > PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, > > > DELETE all TEXT that is > > > > > > > NOT important to the reply & if > > > CHANGING the TOPIC of > > > > > > > the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT > > > LINE -> i.e. "new > > > > > > > subject (was re: old subject)" <- > > > > > > > > > > <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. > > > > > > > , > > > .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. > > > > > > > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP > > > in this matter. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > If you do not want all of the groups > > > emails, instead of > > > > > > > unsubscribing, you can change your > > > delivery option by > > > > > > > clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the > > > home page. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com > > > > > > > <mailto:aquaticlife-digest%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > > > <mailto:aquaticlife-digest%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > to receive the digest, which includes > > > up to 25 posts at a > > > > > > > time in a single email > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com > > > > > > > <mailto:aquaticlife-nomail%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > > > <mailto:aquaticlife-nomail%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > for the No E-Mail option where you will > > > still be able to > > > > > > > read messages on the group and post > > > replies. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com > > > > > > > <mailto:aquaticlife-normal%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > > > <mailto:aquaticlife-normal%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > to receive individual e-mails.Yahoo! > > > Groups Links > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > mailto:AquaticLife-fullfeatured@yahoogroups.com > > > > > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife-fullfeatured%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife-fullfeatured%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ------------------------------------ > > > > > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when > > > replying, Thank You. > > > ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> > > > ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> > > > PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is > > > NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of > > > the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new > > > subject (was re: old subject)" <- > > > <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. > > > , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. > > > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. > > > > > > If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of > > > unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by > > > clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the home page.  > > > > > > Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com > > > to receive the digest, which includes up to 25 posts at a > > > time in a single email > > > > > > Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com > > > for the No E-Mail option where you will still be able to > > > read messages on the group and post replies. > > > > > > Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com > > > to receive individual e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > > > >     mailto:AquaticLife-fullfeatured@yahoogroups.com > > > > > > > > > > > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 41031	From: Chris Owens-Polski	Date: 6/19/2009
Subject: Re: New fish pond...need advice

Hiya, where in VA are you?   Chris in Northern VA --- On Fri, 6/19/09, sgriscom_2 <sgriscom_2@...> wrote: From: sgriscom_2 <sgriscom_2@...> Subject: [AquaticLife] New fish pond...need advice To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Date: Friday, June 19, 2009, 7:28 AM Hello all, I live in Virginia and am planning my first pond. I am not in any hurry as I want to do it right. It was actually my husbands idea but guess who will be doing most of the work. He is stationed on a cutter right now and isn't home much but he wants to have one setup when he transfers to a land unit. I have been searching the net and have exhasted my local library in books of ponds and container gardens. I haven't decided on many things yet. I know I have clay soil that is very packed. I was thinking maybe to start with a large container garden on my screened porch but not sure if that is a good idea with fish or not. I thought that might be a good test before I start digging holes. From what I read fish can do well in container gardens but all the containers I've seen have been rather small. I don't currently know anyone personally that has a pond or any experiences with them so I'm hoping to get some good advice here. Hope you can help. Shannnon [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 41032	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 6/19/2009
Subject: Re: Ugh, now I no longer have any rams left :(

Are they albino Kribs? hehe. And I have a fed ex account, I can ship it discounted that way, that's how I get my "cool" fish now days ;) I prefer the rams myself (I think they're prettier), how territorial do the Kribensis' get? I plan on picking up more rams when I can afford them though. Amber Jim Pat. wrote: > > > Amber, > > Want any Krib's? My male/female have been busy, from the first bunch I > have ~20 the size of neons and the new bunch is around 35. It's > interesting how they "seperate" the other fish from their new > batch.....If it wasn't so expensive to get them to Alaska I would send > you 10 or 15.... So far I haven't found a local fish store that wants > them... > > JIm > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>, Amber Berglund <amber@...> wrote: > > > > Found my last ram dead this evening, I'm pretty sure it was the Angel's > > fault. They've gone into spawning again and are nasty little buggers. I > > was messing with the Rena xp4 and the male nipped me quite good, > shocked > > me because I wasn't looking and didn't expect it, when I jerked my arm > > out of the tank I scared Spike (my severum) and he ran into hiding, LOL. > > I urged the hubby to finish welding my stand together so I can set up > > the 55 gallon for the Angel's, I already have their cycled media in the > > Rena Xp 4 waiting to be transfered into the other filter that came with > > the 55 gallon. Getting tired of them picking on all of the other fish, > > I'm sure everyone will be glad when they go ;) > > I think I know what I'm going to be ordering next on my fish order > > (Rams, and I think I want to get some german ones this time so I can > see > > what they really look like in person, all the pictures seem to look so > > similar between the bolivian's and the german blue rams). > > > > Amber > > > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 41033	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 6/19/2009
Subject: Re: Sexing AngelFish? (now a possible Coup D'etat!)

Uh Oh... did G-rard show back up? Ooops.. never mind, a quick Google found that "Et Tu, Brute'" is not French, but rather Latin. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Et_tu,_Brute%3F It still sounded French to me though! LOL How does this work into this thread though??? Wiki says, in part, that Et Tu Brute' was "Immortalized by Shakespeare's Julius Caesar, the quotation is widely used in Western culture as an epitome of betrayal." Has one of the "grumpy old men" committed a betrayal... better yet, perhaps they are planning a Coup d'etat? Uh Oh, there's that French sounding stuff again... but at least this time, it really is French. ;-) http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Coup_d'etat Stay tuned for late breaking news! LOL Oh yeah... as a disclaimer, while I might use Wikipedia for stuff like the above references, it's not usually the most reliable source of information as anyone can edit a Wikipedia article and add bad information and it will stay with that bad information until someone else comes along and finds and fixes the bad information in the article. I could spend my whole life going through Wikipedia articles fixing mistakes.. but who has time for that. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Raymond Wetzel Sent: Friday, June 19, 2009 10:52 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Sexing AngelFish? Et Tu, Brute'? LOL, LOL, LOL, Ray --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, bill 1433 <warrenprint@...> wrote: > > > Lenny, > > In a small way, being a member of this "club", I believe both references are entirely accurate! > > ol'bill > > --- On Thu, 6/18/09, Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@...> wrote: > > > From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@...> > > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: Sexing AngelFish? > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > Date: Thursday, June 18, 2009, 11:41 PM > > > > \\Steve//, > > > > Did you mean "old fogeys" or "grumpy old men"? > > > > LOL > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles > > referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, > > alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] > > On > > Behalf Of Steve Szabo > > Sent: Thursday, June 18, 2009 10:08 PM > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: Sexing AngelFish? > > > > Amber, > > > > As you become more experienced, you will learn to be more > > discriminating with information you find on the web, in published > > articles, and even in books, especially when it goes against your > > personal experience. > > > > Ray is really a nice guy, he really is. He simply wanted a reference > > to the material you were passing along so he could check it out > > himself. > > The problem is that written communication does not always come > > across as you mean it to. Since I do know Ray (us old fogeys in the > > hobby need to stick together), I can read the message as he probably > > meant it., instead of reading it verbatim as you have. You need to > > learn to take what is said in e-mail with a little grain of salt > > rather than taking offense immediately. > > If ray meant to cut you down, believe me, you would have known it. > > > > \\Steve// > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] > > On Behalf Of Amber Berglund > > Sent: Thursday, June 18, 2009 9:46 PM > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: Sexing AngelFish? > > > > I don't hold onto all the links I read like Lenny does, so I have no > > idea what breeder site on Angel's I read that on. > > I don't mind being corrected Ray, but sometimes I wish you weren't > > quite > > > > so mean about it sometimes, I didn't see you offering him any help > > on getting his Angel's to breed and I was doing my best with what > > info I have read on them, and since I have no problems getting mine > > to spawn I was trying to pass on tips that I had read elsewhere. > > If I was writing a paper on breeding Angel's then I could understand > > asking for all of my sources and page info but I'm just trying to > > help someone out with the info that I had found when I was > > researching. > > Guess > > > > I will just stick to the info that I personally have experienced > > since I > > > > seem to be wrong so often when I try to pass on info that I've read. > > > > Amber > > > > Raymond Wetzel wrote: > > > > > > > > > NO, Not So! I don't know where you read that, but I > > wonder if perhaps > > > you misread it, If not, whoever wrote that is wrong, > > other fish in the > > > > > tank WILL NOT induce any Angelfish to spawn. Could you > > please tell me > > > where you read this? I would tend to doubt that it > > woyuld be in any > > > well-penned book, as this kind of erroneous info has a > > way of getting > > > itself known as such as it spreads throughout the > > hobby. I did notice > > > that you advised James of this; just another case of > > you can't believe > > > > > all you read. If it was on a web site, I can > > understand that -- no one > > > > > should put complete faith in everything they read up > > there, and pass > > > it along, without knowing if it's true. > > > > > > Tetras, or any other small fish, when put with a > > breeding pair of any > > > species of substrate-sawning Cichlids are intended to > > draw the > > > attention of either one of the more aggressive > > partners of the pair > > > away from the other partner so that the least > > aggressive partner does > > > not take the full aggression of the more overbearing > > one. > > > > > > They (these "dither fish") act to initiate the > > territorial behavior of > > > > > both partners of the breesding pair so that they act > > in symphony with > > > each other towards one goal -- to keep the intruders > > out of the > > > breeding area. In this way, attention is drawn to > > these dither fish, > > > rather than each other. The pair is more apt to act in > > harmony rather > > > than one beating up on the other. This methods of > > using dither fish is > > > > > usually reserved for much more aggressive Cichlids. > > Most Angelfish > > > pairs do not need dither fish with them, nor will > > these dither fish > > > induce their spawning. They will spawn when they want > > to spawn. Most > > > good young pairs will spawn every eight days once they > > start spawning, > > > > > when allowed (when you pull the slate, to set their > > breeding cycle > > > going again). They will taper off after about 2 1/2 > > years of age (they > > > > > will start spawning between 7 and 8 months, usually > > closer to 9 > > > months). Ray > > > > > > ---In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>, Amber > > Berglund <amber@> > > wrote: > > > > > > > > I've read from some breeders that some Angelfish > > need activity in > > the > > > > tank from other fish to help induce breeding > > habits, but mine don't > > > seem > > > > to have any problem with that so far, will have > > to see how they act > > > alone. > > > > > > > > Amber > > > > > > > > bill 1433 wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Amber, > > > > > > > > > > If you hit those Angels at a wrong time the > > life-expediency of > > > > > those Tetra's will be about 5 minutes! Once > > you give the fish > > their > > > > > own tank, best leave it that way and save on > > your tetra pennies! > > > > > > > > > > Bill

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 41034	From: bill 1433	Date: 6/19/2009
Subject: Re: Sexing AngelFish?

That ol' sun?  We ain't got any in PA either--------------not lately! Just want you to be happy.  Sun On Your Face is one way.   Its not that he's (RAY) mean, just extremely factual in his responses'.   If you will notice from all of Ray's post-----------------------he very seldom give a one sentence answer.  There is a simple reason for this, when he's answers a question he gives ALL the information at hand.    I have had the pleasure of a few phone calls with him and he's not mean, just very factual in his answers.  Also, you may have noticed, RAY very rarely gives a web-site or link to anything unless it is very specific to an answer.  Know why that is?  His answers come from what I call "The Book Of Ray", i.e. his own experience.   Keep lookin for Sun here too!   ol' bill --- On Fri, 6/19/09, Amber Berglund <amber@...> wrote: From: Amber Berglund <amber@...> Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: Sexing AngelFish? To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Date: Friday, June 19, 2009, 11:15 AM Ray and Bill, I was not as angry in my post as you guys seem to think I was, I was only pointing out that Ray comes across as mean at times, even if he doesn't mean to be. I thought I also stated somewhere in my post to James that I have never had to put tetras in my tank to get my Angelfish to breed so it was not my experience that it was needed to be done, it was merely a suggestion is all. I really don't mind being corrected, I'd rather have the right information than the wrong information and pass it on. And what sun Bill? I live in Alaska ;) LOL Amber bill 1433 wrote: > > > > Hi Amber, > > You must remember, nearly all comments made here including Ray's, come > from the author's own personal experience. They do and say the best > that they can BUT they are YOUR fish. > > I say that to you because as good as their advise is THEY have not > seen the fish personally.  They are basing their information on a > "here's what happened to me" scenario. > What Ray and others tell you, as I do some time, is exactly what > happened to them. >  > Angel fish are not much different than Discus or any other Cichlid.  > BUT, each set of prospective pairs does have their own nuance.  > Sometime with Cichlids all that is needed is regular or a bit larger > than normal, water change.  Sometimes just the simple matter of > turning the heat up a degree or two.  All fish ARE different.  Their > are some simple guide lines and do's and don'ts but that is all Ray is > trying to point out.  He has, and to the best of my knowledge, still > is working with and breeding Angel Fish.  He may not be the "World's > Leading Authority" but he is simply trying to help you over-come > difficulties that are easily managed and prevent any damage to the fish. >  > I'm afraid this is the one great draw backs to the Internet.  There is > a great deal of information on it but it's accuracy in many cases is > changeling at best. >  > Keep some sun on your face, >  > Bill > > --- On Thu, 6/18/09, Amber Berglund <amber@... > <mailto:amber%40rose-fields.com>> wrote: > > > From: Amber Berglund <amber@... > <mailto:amber%40rose-fields.com>> > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: Sexing AngelFish? > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > Date: Thursday, June 18, 2009, 9:45 PM > > I don't hold onto all the links I > > read like Lenny does, so I have no > > idea what breeder site on Angel's I read that on. > > I don't mind being corrected Ray, but sometimes I wish you > > weren't quite > > so mean about it sometimes, I didn't see you offering him > > any help on > > getting his Angel's to breed and I was doing my best with > > what info I > > have read on them, and since I have no problems getting > > mine to spawn I > > was trying to pass on tips that I had read elsewhere. > > If I was writing a paper on breeding Angel's then I could > > understand > > asking for all of my sources and page info but I'm just > > trying to help > > someone out with the info that I had found when I was > > researching. Guess > > I will just stick to the info that I personally have > > experienced since I > > seem to be wrong so often when I try to pass on info that > > I've read. > > > > Amber > > > > Raymond Wetzel wrote: > > > > > > > > > NO, Not So! I don't know where you read that, but I > > wonder if perhaps > > > you misread it, If not, whoever wrote that is wrong, > > other fish in the > > > tank WILL NOT induce any Angelfish to spawn. Could you > > please tell me > > > where you read this? I would tend to doubt that it > > woyuld be in any > > > well-penned book, as this kind of erroneous info has a > > way of getting > > > itself known as such as it spreads throughout the > > hobby. I did notice > > > that you advised James of this; just another case of > > you can't believe > > > all you read. If it was on a web site, I can > > understand that -- no one > > > should put complete faith in everything they read up > > there, and pass > > > it along, without knowing if it's true. > > > > > > Tetras, or any other small fish, when put with a > > breeding pair of any > > > species of substrate-sawning Cichlids are intended to > > draw the > > > attention of either one of the more aggressive > > partners of the pair > > > away from the other partner so that the least > > aggressive partner does > > > not take the full aggression of the more overbearing > > one. > > > > > > They (these "dither fish") act to initiate the > > territorial behavior of > > > both partners of the breesding pair so that they act > > in symphony with > > > each other towards one goal -- to keep the intruders > > out of the > > > breeding area. In this way, attention is drawn to > > these dither fish, > > > rather than each other. The pair is more apt to act in > > harmony rather > > > than one beating up on the other. This methods of > > using dither fish is > > > usually reserved for much more aggressive Cichlids. > > Most Angelfish > > > pairs do not need dither fish with them, nor will > > these dither fish > > > induce their spawning. They will spawn when they want > > to spawn. Most > > > good young pairs will spawn every eight days once they > > start spawning, > > > when allowed (when you pull the slate, to set their > > breeding cycle > > > going again). They will taper off after about 2 1/2 > > years of age (they > > > will start spawning between 7 and 8 months, usually > > closer to 9 > > > months). Ray > > > > > > ---In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>, Amber > > Berglund <amber@...> wrote: > > > > > > > > I've read from some breeders that some Angelfish > > need activity in the > > > > tank from other fish to help induce breeding > > habits, but mine don't > > > seem > > > > to have any problem with that so far, will have > > to see how they act > > > alone. > > > > > > > > Amber > > > > > > > > bill 1433 wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Amber, > > > > > > > > > > If you hit those Angels at a wrong time the > > life-expediency of > > > > > those Tetra's will be about 5 minutes! Once > > you give the fish their > > > > > own tank, best leave it that way and save on > > your tetra pennies! > > > > > > > > > > Bill > > > > > > > > > > --- On Thu, 6/18/09, Amber Berglund > > <amber@... > > > > > <mailto:amber%40rose-fields.com>> > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > From: Amber Berglund <amber@... > > > > > <mailto:amber%40rose-fields.com>> > > > > > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: Sexing > > AngelFish? > > > > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > Date: Thursday, June 18, 2009, 5:09 PM > > > > > > Shipping freshwater fish tends to be > > > > > > less stressful on the fish than > > > > > > saltwater from what I have heard > > (rumors), but I don't have > > > > > > saltwater > > > > > > tanks either, so I'm not sure > > personally. > > > > > > Mine seem to go into their spawning > > behavior about once a > > > > > > month or so. I > > > > > > leave the eggs in the tank and when I > > move my 2 angel's > > > > > > over to their > > > > > > own 55 gallon I will let them raise > > them by themselves. > > > > > > Some breeders also put in faster > > swimming tetras to help > > > > > > induce breeding > > > > > > too, you may have a mated pair and not > > know it as they > > > > > > haven't felt the > > > > > > desire to breed just yet. Have you ever > > had any middle > > > > > > swimming fast > > > > > > fish such as tetra's in the tank with > > your Angel's? > > > > > > Silver dollars are a popular fish to > > put in with Angel's, > > > > > > but they get > > > > > > big (bigger than the Angel's I think), > > I have never had any > > > > > > myself. But > > > > > > my LFS has some in stock, LOL. > > > > > > > > > > > > Amber > > > > > > > > > > > > nicurns@... > > <mailto:nicurns%40bellsouth.net> > > > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Amber, Thanks for replying. I > > don't see any aggressive > > > > > > behavior within > > > > > > > the tank except between the two > > angels at times. It > > > > > > almost appears as > > > > > > > though they are playing!!!LOL > > > > > > > The only other fish in that tank > > are 2 cory's and a > > > > > > medium sized > > > > > > > Pleco. The angels stay to > > themselves as do the cory's > > > > > > and I rarely see > > > > > > > the Pleco except an occasional > > darting whenever > > > > > > entering the room. > > > > > > > Regarding your angels.... Once > > they began spawning, > > > > > > how often did this > > > > > > > re-occur? Do you allow them to > > care for the babies or > > > > > > do you remove > > > > > > > them to a seperate tank? > > > > > > > I am planning on getting another > > larger angel or two, > > > > > > to go into this > > > > > > > tank but just having issues > > finding larger ones in my > > > > > > area. I have > > > > > > > purchased marine fish over the web > > in the past, but > > > > > > have not done so > > > > > > > with freshwater species yet. Maybe > > I'll start looking > > > > > > into this over > > > > > > > the next few weeks. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Thanks, > > > > > > > James S. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>, Amber > > > > > > Berglund <amber@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Angel's are not able to be > > sexed unless they are > > > > > > actively laying eggs > > > > > > > > (spawning). Their sexual > > organs are inside > > > > > > obviously ;) LOL. > > > > > > > > I have a mated pair of > > angel's and I just > > > > > > happened to get lucky that > > > > > > > > way, I started out with 2 and > > one died, so I > > > > > > replaced it with another > > > > > > > > and that 2nd one turned out > > to be female and my > > > > > > first was a male. > > > > > > > > Most people get groups of > > angel's and wait until > > > > > > they pair up to find a > > > > > > > > pair to mate. > > > > > > > > Are your angel's showing any > > sign of mating > > > > > > behavior at all? When mine > > > > > > > > get ready to lay eggs they > > will chase all the > > > > > > other fish to the other > > > > > > > > side of the tank and start > > cleaning a spot to lay > > > > > > their eggs on (while > > > > > > > > the other one guards for > > intruders the female > > > > > > will start to lay the > > > > > > > > eggs, then they take turns > > guarding while the > > > > > > male fertilizes the > > > > > > > eggs). > > > > > > > > If you haven't seen too much > > aggression towards > > > > > > your other fish and the > > > > > > > > other 2 teaming up together > > and chasing the other > > > > > > fish away then I'd > > > > > > > > have to guess you have 2 of > > the same sex. > > > > > > > > It may be hard to introduce > > smaller angel's at > > > > > > this point in time as > > > > > > > the > > > > > > > > bigger ones will pick on the > > smaller ones. > > > > > > > > I suppose you could slowly > > try introducing some > > > > > > new angel's with a tank > > > > > > > > divider and see how > > aggressive the big ones are > > > > > > with the divider in. If > > > > > > > > they are really aggressive > > and attack at the > > > > > > divider then you may have > > > > > > > > to wait until the smaller > > angel's get closer in > > > > > > size to the big ones, > > > > > > > > you can speed up that process > > (a little) by > > > > > > frequent water changes and > > > > > > > > feeding the young Angel's > > really well, just make > > > > > > sure to keep the water > > > > > > > > changes going (don't go > > overboard on them, once a > > > > > > day should me more > > > > > > > > than plenty if you're doing > > 25% changes), this > > > > > > helps remove the > > > > > > > hormones > > > > > > > > from the water so the fish > > will grow a little > > > > > > faster. Unless you can > > > > > > > > talk to the breeder some how > > and see if they > > > > > > might be willing to trade > > > > > > > > you a mated pair ;) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Amber > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > nicurns@ wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Hello all. My name is > > James and I live in > > > > > > UpState South Carolina. I > > > > > > > > > have been keeping fish > > for more years than I > > > > > > would like to admit, and > > > > > > > > > every 5 years or so I > > mix everything up and > > > > > > change what I am keeping. > > > > > > > > > Currently we have a > > 1200-1500 gal pond that > > > > > > I built, and rebuilt, and > > > > > > > > > of course rebuilt again. > > I am happy with my > > > > > > final result for now, but > > > > > > > > > do keep it in the back > > of my head that > > > > > > Bigger is Better, so who > > > > > > > knows??? > > > > > > > > > We have goldfish up to > > 13" long with their > > > > > > offspring that have not > > > > > > > > > been taken by the Heron > > during the winter. I > > > > > > also have 2 medium size > > > > > > > > > butterfly Koi and over > > abundance of plants. > > > > > > > > > Indoors, we have a 58gal > > FW tank with a > > > > > > 30gal sum-filter (making > > > > > > > > > between 80 and 90 gal's > > give or take),and 2 > > > > > > external filters as well > > > > > > > > > housing 2 large Angels, > > 2 cory's, and a > > > > > > pleco. This tank was a Reef > > > > > > > > > tank for many years, but > > I am over all that > > > > > > work!!!!!! We also have a > > > > > > > > > smaller tank that have a > > single LionHead > > > > > > Goldfish that is sooo > > > > > > > > > friendly that he eats > > from your hand. He may > > > > > > be going to the pond for > > > > > > > > > the summer... > > > > > > > > > I've had all types of > > fish over the years, > > > > > > but never angel's until > > > > > > > > > around 8 months ago. I > > visited our LSF, and > > > > > > they had a tank full of > > > > > > > > > nickel sized babies that > > another customer > > > > > > had breed. I actually met > > > > > > > > > the breeder in the > > store, and he has Angel's > > > > > > and Discus. I bought > > > > > > > 6 of > > > > > > > > > the babies, and they all > > did great until 3 > > > > > > months back when something > > > > > > > > > went wacky and I lost > > one after another in a > > > > > > span of two weeks. Well > > > > > > > > > the remaining 2 are now > > hugh (4-5" > > > > > > diameter). I would like them to > > > > > > > > > breed or get another one > > to go in with them, > > > > > > but I don't know if I > > > > > > > > > have a mixed pair, two > > males, or two > > > > > > females. Does anyone have any > > > > > > > > > ideas on how to sex > > them? > > > > > > > > > James S. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ------------------------------------ > > > > > > > > > > > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING > > below it when > > > > > > replying, Thank You. > > > > > > > > ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> > > > > > > ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , > > .·´¯`·..><((((º> > > > > > > PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, > > DELETE all TEXT that is > > > > > > NOT important to the reply & if > > CHANGING the TOPIC of > > > > > > the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT > > LINE -> i.e. "new > > > > > > subject (was re: old subject)" <- > > > > > > > > <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. > > > > > > , > > .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. > > > > > > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP > > in this matter. > > > > > > > > > > > > If you do not want all of the groups > > emails, instead of > > > > > > unsubscribing, you can change your > > delivery option by > > > > > > clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the > > home page. > > > > > > > > > > > > Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:aquaticlife-digest%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > <mailto:aquaticlife-digest%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > <mailto:aquaticlife-digest%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > to receive the digest, which includes > > up to 25 posts at a > > > > > > time in a single email > > > > > > > > > > > > Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:aquaticlife-nomail%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > <mailto:aquaticlife-nomail%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > <mailto:aquaticlife-nomail%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > for the No E-Mail option where you will > > still be able to > > > > > > read messages on the group and post > > replies. > > > > > > > > > > > > Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:aquaticlife-normal%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > <mailto:aquaticlife-normal%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > <mailto:aquaticlife-normal%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > to receive individual e-mails.Yahoo! > > Groups Links > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > mailto:AquaticLife-fullfeatured@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife-fullfeatured%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife-fullfeatured%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife-fullfeatured%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ------------------------------------ > > > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when > > replying, Thank You. > > ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> > > ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> > > PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is > > NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of > > the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new > > subject (was re: old subject)" <- > > <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. > > , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. > > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. > > > > If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of > > unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by > > clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the home page. > > > > Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:aquaticlife-digest%40yahoogroups.com> > > to receive the digest, which includes up to 25 posts at a > > time in a single email > > > > Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:aquaticlife-nomail%40yahoogroups.com> > > for the No E-Mail option where you will still be able to > > read messages on the group and post replies. > > > > Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:aquaticlife-normal%40yahoogroups.com> > > to receive individual e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > >     mailto:AquaticLife-fullfeatured@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife-fullfeatured%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > > ------------------------------------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the home page.  Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com to receive the digest, which includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com for the No E-Mail option where you will still be able to read messages on the group and post replies. Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com to receive individual e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 41035	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 6/19/2009
Subject: Re: Gonna sound like a dumb question.

I know I replied to this thread and included a couple of links. Am I now "Shakey"? Hmmm.. it does sound like a cool nickname even if done by accident. I might have to change it to GoldShakey first so folks will recognize me and then eventually drop the Gold until I'm just known as Shakey. If someone else out here is Shakey, I apologize. ;-) Lenny Vasbinder aka Goldlenny and soon to be known as Shakey! LOL Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Robert Mazur Sent: Friday, June 19, 2009 10:30 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Gonna sound like a dumb question. Steve: I'm in Schweinfurt, which is north (I think) of Mannheim by about an hour. I am currently back Stateside for school and won't return untl September, but I'm starting to scope everything out. Shakey -- Thanks for the advice. I am going to look at those sites over the weekend while I'm recovering from today's 5 mile run. :). Rob On Thu, Jun 18, 2009 at 11:25 PM, Steve Szabo <steve@...> wrote: > > > Rob, > > The price does seem high to me also, but, then again, I am not real > familiar with European pricing. > > Where are you located? I do have an acquaintance who is German, and > lives in Germany (imagine that, a German in Germany) and can e-mail > him to see if he is close to you and able to give some advice for your > area. When I travel, I hit the phone book to find shops in an area > that I may be staying, and while the shops may not be that good, it > does give me a chance to check them out and see what fish are being > carried. In Germany, you may see a lot of fish you are not familiar > with from your experience on this side of the ocean, and you are > likely to see higher quality fish, and commensurately higher prices. > Europeans seem to want to pay for quality, unlike most Americans. > > A for how long fish live, it depends on the fish. For instance, koi > can live to be well over 100 years old, where your betta's life span > may only be > 3-4 years. There are fish (annual killifish) that at a year old are > very old fish, while there are a number where at 25 years, they are still young. > > \\Steve// > > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> [mailto: > AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On Behalf > Of Robert Mazur > Sent: Thursday, June 18, 2009 4:07 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Subject: [AquaticLife] Gonna sound like a dumb question. > > This is going to sound like a really dumb, n00bie question, but is $70 > for a > 5 gallon tank with all the accessories (hood, light, filter) an > appropriate > > price? The reason that I ask is I am stationed in Germany now and left > my betta in the care of a friend of mine. I left the 1.5 gallon tank > behind too. My daughter is wanting fish again and at a local store I > saw a 20L > (5.2 US Gal) tank for €49.95 (Euro) which is roughly $70 (give or > take, depending on the conversion rate). > > Also, what sorts of fish get along in that size tank? And the other > question is, how long do fish usually live? Lastly, how would I go > about finding an aquatic shop in Germany? Anyone on this list in > Europe and can shed some light on the subject. > > Thanks! > > Rob > > -- > http://www.pbase.com/mazurgallery/ > http://themazurplace.blogspot.com/ > http://www.flickr.com/photos/rpmazur/ > http://s19.photobucket.com/albums/b185/rpmazur/ > > There are people who make things happen, there are people who watch > things happen, and there are people who wonder what happened. To be > successful, you need to be a person who makes things happen.. > James A. Lovell

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 41036	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 6/19/2009
Subject: Re: Ugh, now I no longer have any rams left :(

Jim, You may want to list in your local Craigslist FREE pets section. Also check with your local FreeCycle to see if they allow giving away live things. Some don't. I'm not sure you'll have much luck selling Kribs, but it doesn't hurt to try. They are almost as bad as livebearers and I've read reports from some fish keepers that their Kribs started mating while still in the bag coming home from the fish store. ;-) It seems that at least one of your LFS (local fish stores) would be willing to take them from you and give you a small amount of store credit for them... unless they all already have tank loads of Kribs already. 10 or 15 would sure have fun in Amber's 125G tank though! ;-) Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Jim Pat. Sent: Friday, June 19, 2009 11:10 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Ugh, now I no longer have any rams left :( Amber, Want any Krib's? My male/female have been busy, from the first bunch I have ~20 the size of neons and the new bunch is around 35. It's interesting how they "seperate" the other fish from their new batch.....If it wasn't so expensive to get them to Alaska I would send you 10 or 15.... So far I haven't found a local fish store that wants them... JIm --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, Amber Berglund <amber@...> wrote: > > Found my last ram dead this evening, I'm pretty sure it was the > Angel's fault. They've gone into spawning again and are nasty little > buggers. I was messing with the Rena xp4 and the male nipped me quite > good, shocked me because I wasn't looking and didn't expect it, when I > jerked my arm out of the tank I scared Spike (my severum) and he ran into hiding, LOL. > I urged the hubby to finish welding my stand together so I can set up > the 55 gallon for the Angel's, I already have their cycled media in > the Rena Xp 4 waiting to be transfered into the other filter that came > with the 55 gallon. Getting tired of them picking on all of the other > fish, I'm sure everyone will be glad when they go ;) I think I know > what I'm going to be ordering next on my fish order (Rams, and I think > I want to get some german ones this time so I can see what they really > look like in person, all the pictures seem to look so similar between > the bolivian's and the german blue rams). > > Amber

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 41037	From: Jpateson@aol.com	Date: 6/19/2009
Subject: Re: Ugh, now I no longer have any rams left :(

Amber, I'm thinking about getting some Rams, but I don't know how they get along with other fish. The Kribs will "control" whatever part of the tank the babies are in, other than that they are good fish for a community tank.... Jim In a message dated 6/19/2009 11:56:53 A.M. Central Daylight Time, amber@... writes: Are they albino Kribs? hehe. And I have a fed ex account, I can ship it discounted that way, that's how I get my "cool" fish now days ;) I prefer the rams myself (I think they're prettier), how territorial do the Kribensis' get? I plan on picking up more rams when I can afford them though. Amber Jim Pat. wrote: > > > Amber, > > Want any Krib's? My male/female have been busy, from the first bunch I > have ~20 the size of neons and the new bunch is around 35. It's > interesting how they "seperate" the other fish from their new > batch.....If it wasn't so expensive to get them to Alaska I would send > you 10 or 15.... So far I haven't found a local fish store that wants > them... > > JIm > > --- In _AquaticLife@AquaticLife@Aqu_ (mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com) > <mailto:AquaticLifemailto:AquaticLmai>, Amber Berglund <amber@...> wrote: > > > > Found my last ram dead this evening, I'm pretty sure it was the Angel's > > fault. They've gone into spawning again and are nasty little buggers. I > > was messing with the Rena xp4 and the male nipped me quite good, > shocked > > me because I wasn't looking and didn't expect it, when I jerked my arm > > out of the tank I scared Spike (my severum) and he ran into hiding, LOL. > > I urged the hubby to finish welding my stand together so I can set up > > the 55 gallon for the Angel's, I already have their cycled media in the > > Rena Xp 4 waiting to be transfered into the other filter that came with > > the 55 gallon. Getting tired of them picking on all of the other fish, > > I'm sure everyone will be glad when they go ;) > > I think I know what I'm going to be ordering next on my fish order > > (Rams, and I think I want to get some german ones this time so I can > see > > what they really look like in person, all the pictures seem to look so > > similar between the bolivian's and the german blue rams). > > > > Amber > > > > **************Download the AOL Classifieds Toolbar for local deals at your fingertips. (http://toolbar.aol.com/aolclassifieds/download.html?ncid=emlcntusdown00000004) [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 41038	From: Jpateson@aol.com	Date: 6/19/2009
Subject: Re: Ugh, now I no longer have any rams left :(

Lenny, I'll check into Craigslist and try giving them away there. I was surprised that the LFS's didn't want the fish, I wasn't even looking for a store credit, and they didn't have tanks of Kribs to sell either.. Jim In a message dated 6/19/2009 12:23:18 P.M. Central Daylight Time, GoldLenny@... writes: Jim, You may want to list in your local Craigslist FREE pets section. Also check with your local FreeCycle to see if they allow giving away live things. Some don't. I'm not sure you'll have much luck selling Kribs, but it doesn't hurt to try. They are almost as bad as livebearers and I've read reports from some fish keepers that their Kribs started mating while still in the bag coming home from the fish store. ;-) It seems that at least one of your LFS (local fish stores) would be willing to take them from you and give you a small amount of store credit for them... unless they all already have tank loads of Kribs already. 10 or 15 would sure have fun in Amber's 125G tank though! ;-) Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - _http://GoldLenny.http://Gohtt_ (http://goldlenny.blogspot.com/) (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: _AquaticLife@AquaticLife@Aqu_ (mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com) [mailto:_AquaticLife@AquaticLife@Aqu_ (mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com) ] On Behalf Of Jim Pat. Sent: Friday, June 19, 2009 11:10 AM To: _AquaticLife@AquaticLife@Aqu_ (mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com) Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Ugh, now I no longer have any rams left :( Amber, Want any Krib's? My male/female have been busy, from the first bunch I have ~20 the size of neons and the new bunch is around 35. It's interesting how they "seperate" the other fish from their new batch.....If it wasn't so expensive to get them to Alaska I would send you 10 or 15.... So far I haven't found a local fish store that wants them... JIm --- In _AquaticLife@AquaticLife@Aqu_ (mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com) , Amber Berglund <amber@...> wrote: > > Found my last ram dead this evening, I'm pretty sure it was the > Angel's fault. They've gone into spawning again and are nasty little > buggers. I was messing with the Rena xp4 and the male nipped me quite > good, shocked me because I wasn't looking and didn't expect it, when I > jerked my arm out of the tank I scared Spike (my severum) and he ran into hiding, LOL. > I urged the hubby to finish welding my stand together so I can set up > the 55 gallon for the Angel's, I already have their cycled media in > the Rena Xp 4 waiting to be transfered into the other filter that came > with the 55 gallon. Getting tired of them picking on all of the other > fish, I'm sure everyone will be glad when they go ;) I think I know > what I'm going to be ordering next on my fish order (Rams, and I think > I want to get some german ones this time so I can see what they really > look like in person, all the pictures seem to look so similar between > the bolivian's and the german blue rams). > > Amber **************Download the AOL Classifieds Toolbar for local deals at your fingertips. (http://toolbar.aol.com/aolclassifieds/download.html?ncid=emlcntusdown00000004) [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 41039	From: Robert Mazur	Date: 6/19/2009
Subject: Re: Gonna sound like a dumb question.

Lenny -- my apologies about calling you Shakey -- he's a guy on another list that I am on (and not fish related). I was looking at a post of his before I read yours, but hey, I think emulation is the best form of flattery :) On Fri, Jun 19, 2009 at 1:06 PM, Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@... > wrote: > > > I know I replied to this thread and included a couple of links. > > Am I now "Shakey"? > > Hmmm.. it does sound like a cool nickname even if done by accident. I might > have to change it to GoldShakey first so folks will recognize me and then > eventually drop the Gold until I'm just known as Shakey. > > If someone else out here is Shakey, I apologize. ;-) > > Lenny Vasbinder aka Goldlenny and soon to be known as Shakey! LOL > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://goldlenny.blogspot.com/> > (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right > side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> [mailto: > AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On > Behalf Of Robert Mazur > Sent: Friday, June 19, 2009 10:30 AM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Gonna sound like a dumb question. > > Steve: > > I'm in Schweinfurt, which is north (I think) of Mannheim by about an hour. > I am currently back Stateside for school and won't return untl September, > but I'm starting to scope everything out. > > Shakey -- Thanks for the advice. I am going to look at those sites over the > weekend while I'm recovering from today's 5 mile run. :). > > Rob > > On Thu, Jun 18, 2009 at 11:25 PM, Steve Szabo <steve@...<steve%40familyszabo.com>> > wrote: > > > > > > > Rob, > > > > The price does seem high to me also, but, then again, I am not real > > familiar with European pricing. > > > > Where are you located? I do have an acquaintance who is German, and > > lives in Germany (imagine that, a German in Germany) and can e-mail > > him to see if he is close to you and able to give some advice for your > > area. When I travel, I hit the phone book to find shops in an area > > that I may be staying, and while the shops may not be that good, it > > does give me a chance to check them out and see what fish are being > > carried. In Germany, you may see a lot of fish you are not familiar > > with from your experience on this side of the ocean, and you are > > likely to see higher quality fish, and commensurately higher prices. > > Europeans seem to want to pay for quality, unlike most Americans. > > > > A for how long fish live, it depends on the fish. For instance, koi > > can live to be well over 100 years old, where your betta's life span > > may only be > > 3-4 years. There are fish (annual killifish) that at a year old are > > very old fish, while there are a number where at 25 years, they are still > young. > > > > \\Steve// > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com><AquaticLife% > 40yahoogroups.com> [mailto: > > AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com><AquaticLife% > 40yahoogroups.com>] On Behalf > > Of Robert Mazur > > Sent: Thursday, June 18, 2009 4:07 PM > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com><AquaticLife% > 40yahoogroups.com> > > Subject: [AquaticLife] Gonna sound like a dumb question. > > > > This is going to sound like a really dumb, n00bie question, but is $70 > > for a > > 5 gallon tank with all the accessories (hood, light, filter) an > > appropriate > > > > price? The reason that I ask is I am stationed in Germany now and left > > my betta in the care of a friend of mine. I left the 1.5 gallon tank > > behind too. My daughter is wanting fish again and at a local store I > > saw a 20L > > (5.2 US Gal) tank for ���49.95 (Euro) which is roughly $70 (give or > > take, depending on the conversion rate). > > > > Also, what sorts of fish get along in that size tank? And the other > > question is, how long do fish usually live? Lastly, how would I go > > about finding an aquatic shop in Germany? Anyone on this list in > > Europe and can shed some light on the subject. > > > > Thanks! > > > > Rob > > > > -- > > http://www.pbase.com/mazurgallery/ > > http://themazurplace.blogspot.com/ > > http://www.flickr.com/photos/rpmazur/ > > http://s19.photobucket.com/albums/b185/rpmazur/ > > > > There are people who make things happen, there are people who watch > > things happen, and there are people who wonder what happened. To be > > successful, you need to be a person who makes things happen.. > > James A. Lovell > > > -- http://www.pbase.com/mazurgallery/ http://themazurplace.blogspot.com/ http://www.flickr.com/photos/rpmazur/ http://s19.photobucket.com/albums/b185/rpmazur/ There are people who make things happen, there are people who watch things happen, and there are people who wonder what happened. To be successful, you need to be a person who makes things happen.. James A. Lovell [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 41040	From: sweetpisces3180	Date: 6/19/2009
Subject: Re: Selling aquarium, besides craigslist where can I advertise?

I meant to say it's too big for my small apt. Thanks for all the info so far! --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, sandi turner <skwirrley2@...> wrote: > > You could list it on ebay or see if there is a buy-sell-trade forum in your area. Check the yahoo group listings for it. > Sandi > > --- On Fri, 6/19/09, sweetpisces3180 <Mayberry2001@...> wrote: > > > From: sweetpisces3180 <Mayberry2001@...> > Subject: [AquaticLife] Selling aquarium, besides craigslist where can I advertise? > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Date: Friday, June 19, 2009, 9:40 AM > > > > > > > > > I've posted on craigslist but haven't gotten a response. I didn't exactly see a place on here to sell, and I'm wondering where else I can post? I don't want to pay to advert in a newspaper, etc. > > I have a 65 gallon freshwater aquarium with all the equipment needed, it's a very clean tank! But it's too small for my new apt. > > any ideas or interest in the DC metro area? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 41041	From: pam andress	Date: 6/19/2009
Subject: Re: Hello!!

Oh thats not that far. lol Only about 1-1 1/2 hrs away. The guy I know with the angels is in Knox. He sells them very cheap. I think when I took some friends there, it was about 3 bucks for quarter size. Pam Pam - I live a good little bit from you out in Lake Station, kinda by Gary/Hobart. But I'm always good to hear about cheap angels! lol. Recent Activity 12 New Members 23 New PhotosVisit Your Group Sitebuilder Build a web site quickly & easily with Sitebuilder. Yahoo! Groups Mom Power Just for moms Join the discussion They fight For our freedom Support their kids Fund learning . [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 41042	From: Raymond Wetzel	Date: 6/19/2009
Subject: Re: Sexing AngelFish? (now a possible Coup D'etat!)

Nope, No G-ard. Yes, Latin from Shakespeare's Julius Caesar; a common expression literally meaning -- "and you, Brutus?" As if to say, is Bill joining you in the dastardly deed of calling us "grumpy old men." LOL Not yet sure if we should take offense to that, since it's bad enough that we're being referred to as "old fogeys". Come to think of it, I guess there's some truth to that -- LOL. Ray --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@...> wrote: > > Uh Oh... did G-rard show back up? > > Ooops.. never mind, a quick Google found that "Et Tu, Brute'" is not French, > but rather Latin. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Et_tu,_Brute%3F > > It still sounded French to me though! LOL > > How does this work into this thread though??? Wiki says, in part, that Et > Tu Brute' was "Immortalized by Shakespeare's Julius Caesar, the quotation is > widely used in Western culture as an epitome of betrayal." > > Has one of the "grumpy old men" committed a betrayal... better yet, perhaps > they are planning a Coup d'etat? Uh Oh, there's that French sounding stuff > again... but at least this time, it really is French. ;-) > http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Coup_d'etat > > Stay tuned for late breaking news! LOL > > Oh yeah... as a disclaimer, while I might use Wikipedia for stuff like the > above references, it's not usually the most reliable source of information > as anyone can edit a Wikipedia article and add bad information and it will > stay with that bad information until someone else comes along and finds and > fixes the bad information in the article. I could spend my whole life going > through Wikipedia articles fixing mistakes.. but who has time for that. > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right > side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) > > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On > Behalf Of Raymond Wetzel > Sent: Friday, June 19, 2009 10:52 AM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Sexing AngelFish? > > Et Tu, Brute'? LOL, LOL, LOL, Ray > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, bill 1433 <warrenprint@> wrote: > > > > > > Lenny, > > > > In a small way, being a member of this "club", I believe both references > are entirely accurate! > > > > ol'bill > > > > --- On Thu, 6/18/09, Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@> wrote: > > > > > From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@> > > > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: Sexing AngelFish? > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > > Date: Thursday, June 18, 2009, 11:41 PM > > > > > > \\Steve//, > > > > > > Did you mean "old fogeys" or "grumpy old men"? > > > > > > LOL > > > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles > > > referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, > > > alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) > > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] > > > On > > > Behalf Of Steve Szabo > > > Sent: Thursday, June 18, 2009 10:08 PM > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: Sexing AngelFish? > > > > > > Amber, > > > > > > As you become more experienced, you will learn to be more > > > discriminating with information you find on the web, in published > > > articles, and even in books, especially when it goes against your > > > personal experience. > > > > > > Ray is really a nice guy, he really is. He simply wanted a reference > > > to the material you were passing along so he could check it out > > > himself. > > > The problem is that written communication does not always come > > > across as you mean it to. Since I do know Ray (us old fogeys in the > > > hobby need to stick together), I can read the message as he probably > > > meant it., instead of reading it verbatim as you have. You need to > > > learn to take what is said in e-mail with a little grain of salt > > > rather than taking offense immediately. > > > If ray meant to cut you down, believe me, you would have known it. > > > > > > \\Steve// > > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] > > > On Behalf Of Amber Berglund > > > Sent: Thursday, June 18, 2009 9:46 PM > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: Sexing AngelFish? > > > > > > I don't hold onto all the links I read like Lenny does, so I have no > > > idea what breeder site on Angel's I read that on. > > > I don't mind being corrected Ray, but sometimes I wish you weren't > > > quite > > > > > > so mean about it sometimes, I didn't see you offering him any help > > > on getting his Angel's to breed and I was doing my best with what > > > info I have read on them, and since I have no problems getting mine > > > to spawn I was trying to pass on tips that I had read elsewhere. > > > If I was writing a paper on breeding Angel's then I could understand > > > asking for all of my sources and page info but I'm just trying to > > > help someone out with the info that I had found when I was > > > researching. > > > Guess > > > > > > I will just stick to the info that I personally have experienced > > > since I > > > > > > seem to be wrong so often when I try to pass on info that I've read. > > > > > > Amber > > > > > > Raymond Wetzel wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > NO, Not So! I don't know where you read that, but I > > > wonder if perhaps > > > > you misread it, If not, whoever wrote that is wrong, > > > other fish in the > > > > > > > tank WILL NOT induce any Angelfish to spawn. Could you > > > please tell me > > > > where you read this? I would tend to doubt that it > > > woyuld be in any > > > > well-penned book, as this kind of erroneous info has a > > > way of getting > > > > itself known as such as it spreads throughout the > > > hobby. I did notice > > > > that you advised James of this; just another case of > > > you can't believe > > > > > > > all you read. If it was on a web site, I can > > > understand that -- no one > > > > > > > should put complete faith in everything they read up > > > there, and pass > > > > it along, without knowing if it's true. > > > > > > > > Tetras, or any other small fish, when put with a > > > breeding pair of any > > > > species of substrate-sawning Cichlids are intended to > > > draw the > > > > attention of either one of the more aggressive > > > partners of the pair > > > > away from the other partner so that the least > > > aggressive partner does > > > > not take the full aggression of the more overbearing > > > one. > > > > > > > > They (these "dither fish") act to initiate the > > > territorial behavior of > > > > > > > both partners of the breesding pair so that they act > > > in symphony with > > > > each other towards one goal -- to keep the intruders > > > out of the > > > > breeding area. In this way, attention is drawn to > > > these dither fish, > > > > rather than each other. The pair is more apt to act in > > > harmony rather > > > > than one beating up on the other. This methods of > > > using dither fish is > > > > > > > usually reserved for much more aggressive Cichlids. > > > Most Angelfish > > > > pairs do not need dither fish with them, nor will > > > these dither fish > > > > induce their spawning. They will spawn when they want > > > to spawn. Most > > > > good young pairs will spawn every eight days once they > > > start spawning, > > > > > > > when allowed (when you pull the slate, to set their > > > breeding cycle > > > > going again). They will taper off after about 2 1/2 > > > years of age (they > > > > > > > will start spawning between 7 and 8 months, usually > > > closer to 9 > > > > months). Ray > > > > > > > > ---In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>, Amber > > > Berglund <amber@> > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > I've read from some breeders that some Angelfish > > > need activity in > > > the > > > > > tank from other fish to help induce breeding > > > habits, but mine don't > > > > seem > > > > > to have any problem with that so far, will have > > > to see how they act > > > > alone. > > > > > > > > > > Amber > > > > > > > > > > bill 1433 wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Amber, > > > > > > > > > > > > If you hit those Angels at a wrong time the > > > life-expediency of > > > > > > those Tetra's will be about 5 minutes! Once > > > you give the fish > > > their > > > > > > own tank, best leave it that way and save on > > > your tetra pennies! > > > > > > > > > > > > Bill >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 41043	From: bill 1433	Date: 6/19/2009
Subject: Re: Sexing AngelFish? (now a possible Coup D'etat!)

Sorry for the mis-quote! It is not bill "joining" in anything! It is that ol' bill IS part of the "old fogey" group and as for grumpy old man? All is in the preception, which I hope is not to negative? ol' bill <grin> --- On Fri, 6/19/09, Raymond Wetzel <sevenspringss@...> wrote: > From: Raymond Wetzel <sevenspringss@...> > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Sexing AngelFish? (now a possible Coup D'etat!) > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Date: Friday, June 19, 2009, 4:02 PM > Nope, No G-ard.  Yes, Latin from > Shakespeare's Julius Caesar; a common expression literally > meaning -- "and you, Brutus?"  As if to say, is Bill > joining you in the dastardly deed of calling us "grumpy old > men."  LOL > > Not yet sure if we should take offense to that, since it's > bad enough that we're being referred to as "old > fogeys".  Come to think of it, I guess there's some > truth to that -- LOL.  Ray > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, > "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@...> wrote: > > > > Uh Oh... did G-rard show back up?  > > > > Ooops.. never mind, a quick Google found that "Et Tu, > Brute'" is not French, > > but rather Latin.  http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Et_tu,_Brute%3F%c2%a0 > > > > It still sounded French to me though!  LOL > > > > How does this work into this thread though???  > Wiki says, in part, that Et > > Tu Brute' was "Immortalized by Shakespeare's Julius > Caesar, the quotation is > > widely used in Western culture as an epitome of > betrayal." > > > > Has one of the "grumpy old men" committed a > betrayal... better yet, perhaps > > they are planning a Coup d'etat?  Uh Oh, there's > that French sounding stuff > > again... but at least this time, it really is French. > ;-) > > http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Coup_d'etat > > > > Stay tuned for late breaking news!  LOL > > > > Oh yeah... as a disclaimer, while I might use > Wikipedia for stuff like the > > above references, it's not usually the most reliable > source of information > > as anyone can edit a Wikipedia article and add bad > information and it will > > stay with that bad information until someone else > comes along and finds and > > fixes the bad information in the article.  I > could spend my whole life going > > through Wikipedia articles fixing mistakes.. but who > has time for that. > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > > (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are > listed on the right > > side, alphabetically under Labels and also under > Archives by Year, Month) > > > > > >  > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] > On > > Behalf Of Raymond Wetzel > > Sent: Friday, June 19, 2009 10:52 AM > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Sexing AngelFish? > > > > Et Tu, Brute'? LOL, LOL, LOL, Ray > > > > > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, > bill 1433 <warrenprint@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > Lenny, > > > > > > In a small way, being a member of this "club", I > believe both references > > are entirely accurate! > > > > > > ol'bill > > > > > > --- On Thu, 6/18/09, Lenny V. aka GoldLenny > <GoldLenny@> wrote: > > > > > > > From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny > <GoldLenny@> > > > > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: Sexing > AngelFish? > > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > > > Date: Thursday, June 18, 2009, 11:41 PM > > > > > > > > \\Steve//, > > > > > > > > Did you mean "old fogeys" or "grumpy old > men"? > > > > > > > > LOL > > > > > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles > > > > referenced in above reply are listed on the > right side, > > > > alphabetically under Labels and also under > Archives by Year, Month) > > > > > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > > > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] > > > > On > > > > Behalf Of Steve Szabo > > > > Sent: Thursday, June 18, 2009 10:08 PM > > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > > > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: Sexing > AngelFish? > > > > > > > > Amber, > > > > > > > > As you become more experienced, you will > learn to be more > > > > discriminating with information you find on > the web, in published > > > > articles, and even in books, especially when > it goes against your > > > > personal experience. > > > > > > > > Ray is really a nice guy, he really is. He > simply wanted a reference > > > > to the material you were passing along so he > could check it out > > > > himself. > > > > The problem is that written communication > does not always come > > > > across as you mean it to. Since I do know > Ray (us old fogeys in the > > > > hobby need to stick together), I can read > the message as he probably > > > > meant it., instead of reading it verbatim as > you have. You need to > > > > learn to take what is said in e-mail with a > little grain of salt > > > > rather than taking offense immediately. > > > > If ray meant to cut you down, believe me, > you would have known it. > > > > > > > > \\Steve// > > > > > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > > > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] > > > > On Behalf Of Amber Berglund > > > > Sent: Thursday, June 18, 2009 9:46 PM > > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: Sexing > AngelFish? > > > > > > > > I don't hold onto all the links I read like > Lenny does, so I have no > > > > idea what breeder site on Angel's I read > that on. > > > > I don't mind being corrected Ray, but > sometimes I wish you weren't > > > > quite > > > > > > > > so mean about it sometimes, I didn't see you > offering him any help > > > > on getting his Angel's to breed and I was > doing my best with what > > > > info I have read on them, and since I have > no problems getting mine > > > > to spawn I was trying to pass on tips that I > had read elsewhere. > > > > If I was writing a paper on breeding Angel's > then I could understand > > > > asking for all of my sources and page info > but I'm just trying to > > > > help someone out with the info that I had > found when I was > > > > researching. > > > > Guess > > > > > > > > I will just stick to the info that I > personally have experienced > > > > since I > > > > > > > > seem to be wrong so often when I try to pass > on info that I've read. > > > > > > > > Amber > > > > > > > > Raymond Wetzel wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > NO, Not So! I don't know where you read > that, but I > > > > wonder if perhaps > > > > > you misread it, If not, whoever wrote > that is wrong, > > > > other fish in the > > > > > > > > > tank WILL NOT induce any Angelfish to > spawn. Could you > > > > please tell me > > > > > where you read this? I would tend to > doubt that it > > > > woyuld be in any > > > > > well-penned book, as this kind of > erroneous info has a > > > > way of getting > > > > > itself known as such as it spreads > throughout the > > > > hobby. I did notice > > > > > that you advised James of this; just > another case of > > > > you can't believe > > > > > > > > > all you read. If it was on a web site, > I can > > > > understand that -- no one > > > > > > > > > should put complete faith in everything > they read up > > > > there, and pass > > > > > it along, without knowing if it's > true. > > > > > > > > > > Tetras, or any other small fish, when > put with a > > > > breeding pair of any > > > > > species of substrate-sawning Cichlids > are intended to > > > > draw the > > > > > attention of either one of the more > aggressive > > > > partners of the pair > > > > > away from the other partner so that the > least > > > > aggressive partner does > > > > > not take the full aggression of the > more overbearing > > > > one. > > > > > > > > > > They (these "dither fish") act to > initiate the > > > > territorial behavior of > > > > > > > > > both partners of the breesding pair so > that they act > > > > in symphony with > > > > > each other towards one goal -- to keep > the intruders > > > > out of the > > > > > breeding area. In this way, attention > is drawn to > > > > these dither fish, > > > > > rather than each other. The pair is > more apt to act in > > > > harmony rather > > > > > than one beating up on the other. This > methods of > > > > using dither fish is > > > > > > > > > usually reserved for much more > aggressive Cichlids. > > > > Most Angelfish > > > > > pairs do not need dither fish with > them, nor will > > > > these dither fish > > > > > induce their spawning. They will spawn > when they want > > > > to spawn. Most > > > > > good young pairs will spawn every eight > days once they > > > > start spawning, > > > > > > > > > when allowed (when you pull the slate, > to set their > > > > breeding cycle > > > > > going again). They will taper off after > about 2 1/2 > > > > years of age (they > > > > > > > > > will start spawning between 7 and 8 > months, usually > > > > closer to 9 > > > > > months). Ray > > > > > > > > > > ---In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>, Amber > > > > Berglund <amber@> > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > I've read from some breeders that > some Angelfish > > > > need activity in > > > > the > > > > > > tank from other fish to help > induce breeding > > > > habits, but mine don't > > > > > seem > > > > > > to have any problem with that so > far, will have > > > > to see how they act > > > > > alone. > > > > > > > > > > > > Amber > > > > > > > > > > > > bill 1433 wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Amber, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > If you hit those Angels at a > wrong time the > > > > life-expediency of > > > > > > > those Tetra's will be about 5 > minutes! Once > > > > you give the fish > > > > their > > > > > > > own tank, best leave it that > way and save on > > > > your tetra pennies! > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Bill > > > > > > > ------------------------------------ > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when > replying, Thank You. > ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> > ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> > PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is > NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of > the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new > subject (was re: old subject)" <- > <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. > , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. > > If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of > unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by > clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the home page.  > > Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com > to receive the digest, which includes up to 25 posts at a > time in a single email > > Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com > for the No E-Mail option where you will still be able to > read messages on the group and post replies. > > Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com > to receive individual e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links > > >     mailto:AquaticLife-fullfeatured@yahoogroups.com > > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 41044	From: sgriscom_2	Date: 6/19/2009
Subject: Re: New fish pond...need advice

Portsmouth, VA --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, Chris Owens-Polski <chris_o_p@...> wrote: > > Hiya, where in VA are you? >   > Chris in Northern VA >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 41045	From: sgriscom_2	Date: 6/19/2009
Subject: Re: New fish pond...need advice

I had originally thought about the container garden but so far I haven't found anything I like. My husband is insistant on koi but I would be okay with the commom, comet, and/or shubunkin type goldfish. Of course I wouldn't use koi in the container garden. As for size I would like to get at least three fish in it so whatever size would accomidate them. As for flexible or preformed, I haven't decided. Preformed seems easier but has set shapes. Question, is sand really necessary since I have clay. I also have conserns about what plants would do well around the outside of the pond since I have clay. I have gotten a lot of info but still need to make most of the decisions. Thanks, Shannon(That's three Ns total).

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 41046	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 6/19/2009
Subject: Re: Ugh, now I no longer have any rams left :(

If they aren't as bad as Angel's then I may consider them ;) Ram's are fairly docile most of the time, but they do some chasing if they have a territory they want to claim, but they don't tend to chase other fish much, mostly just other rams. I started with 3, one died right away to ich and I'm pretty sure the red tailed catfish ate one, and this last one was found unharmed looking but very dead on the bottom of the tank :( I enjoy watching them because they like to flutter in place when they see something interesting in the tank. Amber Jpateson@... wrote: > > > Amber, > > I'm thinking about getting some Rams, but I don't know how they get along > with other fish. The Kribs will "control" whatever part of the tank the > babies are in, other than that they are good fish for a community tank.... > > Jim > > > In a message dated 6/19/2009 11:56:53 A.M. Central Daylight Time, > amber@... <mailto:amber%40rose-fields.com> writes: > > Are they albino Kribs? hehe. > And I have a fed ex account, I can ship it discounted that way, that's > how I get my "cool" fish now days ;) > I prefer the rams myself (I think they're prettier), how territorial do > the Kribensis' get? > I plan on picking up more rams when I can afford them though. > > Amber > > Jim Pat. wrote: > > > > > > Amber, > > > > Want any Krib's? My male/female have been busy, from the first bunch I > > have ~20 the size of neons and the new bunch is around 35. It's > > interesting how they "seperate" the other fish from their new > > batch.....If it wasn't so expensive to get them to Alaska I would send > > you 10 or 15.... So far I haven't found a local fish store that wants > > them... > > > > JIm > > > > --- In _AquaticLife@AquaticLife@Aqu_ > (mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>) > > > <mailto:AquaticLifemailto:AquaticLmai>, Amber Berglund <amber@...> > wrote: > > > > > > Found my last ram dead this evening, I'm pretty sure it was the > Angel's > > > fault. They've gone into spawning again and are nasty little > buggers. I > > > was messing with the Rena xp4 and the male nipped me quite good, > > shocked > > > me because I wasn't looking and didn't expect it, when I jerked my arm > > > out of the tank I scared Spike (my severum) and he ran into hiding, > LOL. > > > I urged the hubby to finish welding my stand together so I can set up > > > the 55 gallon for the Angel's, I already have their cycled media > in the > > > Rena Xp 4 waiting to be transfered into the other filter that came > with > > > the 55 gallon. Getting tired of them picking on all of the other fish, > > > I'm sure everyone will be glad when they go ;) > > > I think I know what I'm going to be ordering next on my fish order > > > (Rams, and I think I want to get some german ones this time so I can > > see > > > what they really look like in person, all the pictures seem to look so > > > similar between the bolivian's and the german blue rams). > > > > > > Amber > > > > > > > > > **************Download the AOL Classifieds Toolbar for local deals at > your > fingertips. > (http://toolbar.aol.com/aolclassifieds/download.html?ncid=emlcntusdown00000004 > <http://toolbar.aol.com/aolclassifieds/download.html?ncid=emlcntusdown00000004>) > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 41047	From: biG poppa	Date: 6/19/2009
Subject: Re: Ugh, now I no longer have any rams left :(

amber ill take some for my 55g new set up..lol --- On Fri, 6/19/09, Amber Berglund <amber@...> wrote: From: Amber Berglund <amber@...> Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: Ugh, now I no longer have any rams left :( To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Date: Friday, June 19, 2009, 5:21 PM If they aren't as bad as Angel's then I may consider them ;) Ram's are fairly docile most of the time, but they do some chasing if they have a territory they want to claim, but they don't tend to chase other fish much, mostly just other rams. I started with 3, one died right away to ich and I'm pretty sure the red tailed catfish ate one, and this last one was found unharmed looking but very dead on the bottom of the tank :( I enjoy watching them because they like to flutter in place when they see something interesting in the tank. Amber Jpateson@aol. com wrote: > > > Amber, > > I'm thinking about getting some Rams, but I don't know how they get along > with other fish. The Kribs will "control" whatever part of the tank the > babies are in, other than that they are good fish for a community tank.... > > Jim > > > In a message dated 6/19/2009 11:56:53 A.M. Central Daylight Time, > amber@rose-fields. com <mailto:amber% 40rose-fields. com> writes: > > Are they albino Kribs? hehe. > And I have a fed ex account, I can ship it discounted that way, that's > how I get my "cool" fish now days ;) > I prefer the rams myself (I think they're prettier), how territorial do > the Kribensis' get? > I plan on picking up more rams when I can afford them though. > > Amber > > Jim Pat. wrote: > > > > > > Amber, > > > > Want any Krib's? My male/female have been busy, from the first bunch I > > have ~20 the size of neons and the new bunch is around 35. It's > > interesting how they "seperate" the other fish from their new > > batch.....If it wasn't so expensive to get them to Alaska I would send > > you 10 or 15.... So far I haven't found a local fish store that wants > > them... > > > > JIm > > > > --- In _AquaticLife@ AquaticLife@ Aqu_ > (mailto:AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com > <mailto:AquaticLife %40yahoogroups. com>) > > > <mailto:AquaticLife mailto:AquaticLm ai>, Amber Berglund <amber@...> > wrote: > > > > > > Found my last ram dead this evening, I'm pretty sure it was the > Angel's > > > fault. They've gone into spawning again and are nasty little > buggers. I > > > was messing with the Rena xp4 and the male nipped me quite good, > > shocked > > > me because I wasn't looking and didn't expect it, when I jerked my arm > > > out of the tank I scared Spike (my severum) and he ran into hiding, > LOL. > > > I urged the hubby to finish welding my stand together so I can set up > > > the 55 gallon for the Angel's, I already have their cycled media > in the > > > Rena Xp 4 waiting to be transfered into the other filter that came > with > > > the 55 gallon. Getting tired of them picking on all of the other fish, > > > I'm sure everyone will be glad when they go ;) > > > I think I know what I'm going to be ordering next on my fish order > > > (Rams, and I think I want to get some german ones this time so I can > > see > > > what they really look like in person, all the pictures seem to look so > > > similar between the bolivian's and the german blue rams). > > > > > > Amber > > > > > > > > > ************ **Download the AOL Classifieds Toolbar for local deals at > your > fingertips. > (http://toolbar. aol.com/aolclass ifieds/download. html?ncid= emlcntusdown0000 0004 > <http://toolbar. aol.com/aolclass ifieds/download. html?ncid= emlcntusdown0000 0004>) > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 41048	From: Donna Ransome	Date: 6/19/2009
Subject: Re: Ray Fan Club

I know Ray too, but leave me out of that fogey group please, LOL. You couldn't know a nicer person Amber. But you definitely have to be sure of your info before you pass it along. If you can say IME that's best. If you have the citation, that's second best. If you just read it somewhere, always a good idea to add a caveat like FWIW and could be truth or myth. _____ From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Steve Szabo Sent: Thursday, June 18, 2009 11:08 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: Sexing AngelFish? Amber, As you become more experienced, you will learn to be more discriminating with information you find on the web, in published articles, and even in books, especially when it goes against your personal experience. Ray is really a nice guy, he really is. He simply wanted a reference to the material you were passing along so he could check it out himself. The problem is that written communication does not always come across as you mean it to. Since I do know Ray (us old fogeys in the hobby need to stick together), I can read the message as he probably meant it., instead of reading it verbatim as you have. You need to learn to take what is said in e-mail with a little grain of salt rather than taking offense immediately. If ray meant to cut you down, believe me, you would have known it. \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Amber Berglund Sent: Thursday, June 18, 2009 9:46 PM To: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: Sexing AngelFish? I don't hold onto all the links I read like Lenny does, so I have no idea what breeder site on Angel's I read that on. I don't mind being corrected Ray, but sometimes I wish you weren't quite so mean about it sometimes, I didn't see you offering him any help on getting his Angel's to breed and I was doing my best with what info I have read on them, and since I have no problems getting mine to spawn I was trying to pass on tips that I had read elsewhere. If I was writing a paper on breeding Angel's then I could understand asking for all of my sources and page info but I'm just trying to help someone out with the info that I had found when I was researching. Guess I will just stick to the info that I personally have experienced since I seem to be wrong so often when I try to pass on info that I've read. Amber Raymond Wetzel wrote: > > > NO, Not So! I don't know where you read that, but I wonder if perhaps > you misread it, If not, whoever wrote that is wrong, other fish in the > tank WILL NOT induce any Angelfish to spawn. Could you please tell me > where you read this? I would tend to doubt that it woyuld be in any > well-penned book, as this kind of erroneous info has a way of getting > itself known as such as it spreads throughout the hobby. I did notice > that you advised James of this; just another case of you can't believe > all you read. If it was on a web site, I can understand that -- no one > should put complete faith in everything they read up there, and pass > it along, without knowing if it's true. > > Tetras, or any other small fish, when put with a breeding pair of any > species of substrate-sawning Cichlids are intended to draw the > attention of either one of the more aggressive partners of the pair > away from the other partner so that the least aggressive partner does > not take the full aggression of the more overbearing one. > > They (these "dither fish") act to initiate the territorial behavior of > both partners of the breesding pair so that they act in symphony with > each other towards one goal -- to keep the intruders out of the > breeding area. In this way, attention is drawn to these dither fish, > rather than each other. The pair is more apt to act in harmony rather > than one beating up on the other. This methods of using dither fish is > usually reserved for much more aggressive Cichlids. Most Angelfish > pairs do not need dither fish with them, nor will these dither fish > induce their spawning. They will spawn when they want to spawn. Most > good young pairs will spawn every eight days once they start spawning, > when allowed (when you pull the slate, to set their breeding cycle > going again). They will taper off after about 2 1/2 years of age (they > will start spawning between 7 and 8 months, usually closer to 9 > months). Ray > > ---In AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>, Amber Berglund <amber@...> wrote: > > > > I've read from some breeders that some Angelfish need activity in the > > tank from other fish to help induce breeding habits, but mine don't > seem > > to have any problem with that so far, will have to see how they act > alone. > > > > Amber > > > > bill 1433 wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > Amber, > > > > > > If you hit those Angels at a wrong time the life-expediency of > > > those Tetra's will be about 5 minutes! Once you give the fish their > > > own tank, best leave it that way and save on your tetra pennies! > > > > > > Bill > > > > > > --- On Thu, 6/18/09, Amber Berglund <amber@... > > > <mailto:amber%40rose-fields.com>> wrote: > > > > > > > From: Amber Berglund <amber@... > > > <mailto:amber%40rose-fields.com>> > > > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: Sexing AngelFish? > > > > To: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > Date: Thursday, June 18, 2009, 5:09 PM > > > > Shipping freshwater fish tends to be > > > > less stressful on the fish than > > > > saltwater from what I have heard (rumors), but I don't have > > > > saltwater > > > > tanks either, so I'm not sure personally. > > > > Mine seem to go into their spawning behavior about once a > > > > month or so. I > > > > leave the eggs in the tank and when I move my 2 angel's > > > > over to their > > > > own 55 gallon I will let them raise them by themselves. > > > > Some breeders also put in faster swimming tetras to help > > > > induce breeding > > > > too, you may have a mated pair and not know it as they > > > > haven't felt the > > > > desire to breed just yet. Have you ever had any middle > > > > swimming fast > > > > fish such as tetra's in the tank with your Angel's? > > > > Silver dollars are a popular fish to put in with Angel's, > > > > but they get > > > > big (bigger than the Angel's I think), I have never had any > > > > myself. But > > > > my LFS has some in stock, LOL. > > > > > > > > Amber > > > > > > > > nicurns@... <mailto:nicurns%40bellsouth.net> > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Amber, Thanks for replying. I don't see any aggressive > > > > behavior within > > > > > the tank except between the two angels at times. It > > > > almost appears as > > > > > though they are playing!!!LOL > > > > > The only other fish in that tank are 2 cory's and a > > > > medium sized > > > > > Pleco. The angels stay to themselves as do the cory's > > > > and I rarely see > > > > > the Pleco except an occasional darting whenever > > > > entering the room. > > > > > Regarding your angels.... Once they began spawning, > > > > how often did this > > > > > re-occur? Do you allow them to care for the babies or > > > > do you remove > > > > > them to a seperate tank? > > > > > I am planning on getting another larger angel or two, > > > > to go into this > > > > > tank but just having issues finding larger ones in my > > > > area. I have > > > > > purchased marine fish over the web in the past, but > > > > have not done so > > > > > with freshwater species yet. Maybe I'll start looking > > > > into this over > > > > > the next few weeks. > > > > > > > > > > Thanks, > > > > > James S. > > > > > > > > > > --- In AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>, Amber > > > > Berglund <amber@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > Angel's are not able to be sexed unless they are > > > > actively laying eggs > > > > > > (spawning). Their sexual organs are inside > > > > obviously ;) LOL. > > > > > > I have a mated pair of angel's and I just > > > > happened to get lucky that > > > > > > way, I started out with 2 and one died, so I > > > > replaced it with another > > > > > > and that 2nd one turned out to be female and my > > > > first was a male. > > > > > > Most people get groups of angel's and wait until > > > > they pair up to find a > > > > > > pair to mate. > > > > > > Are your angel's showing any sign of mating > > > > behavior at all? When mine > > > > > > get ready to lay eggs they will chase all the > > > > other fish to the other > > > > > > side of the tank and start cleaning a spot to lay > > > > their eggs on (while > > > > > > the other one guards for intruders the female > > > > will start to lay the > > > > > > eggs, then they take turns guarding while the > > > > male fertilizes the > > > > > eggs). > > > > > > If you haven't seen too much aggression towards > > > > your other fish and the > > > > > > other 2 teaming up together and chasing the other > > > > fish away then I'd > > > > > > have to guess you have 2 of the same sex. > > > > > > It may be hard to introduce smaller angel's at > > > > this point in time as > > > > > the > > > > > > bigger ones will pick on the smaller ones. > > > > > > I suppose you could slowly try introducing some > > > > new angel's with a tank > > > > > > divider and see how aggressive the big ones are > > > > with the divider in. If > > > > > > they are really aggressive and attack at the > > > > divider then you may have > > > > > > to wait until the smaller angel's get closer in > > > > size to the big ones, > > > > > > you can speed up that process (a little) by > > > > frequent water changes and > > > > > > feeding the young Angel's really well, just make > > > > sure to keep the water > > > > > > changes going (don't go overboard on them, once a > > > > day should me more > > > > > > than plenty if you're doing 25% changes), this > > > > helps remove the > > > > > hormones > > > > > > from the water so the fish will grow a little > > > > faster. Unless you can > > > > > > talk to the breeder some how and see if they > > > > might be willing to trade > > > > > > you a mated pair ;) > > > > > > > > > > > > Amber > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > nicurns@ wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Hello all. My name is James and I live in > > > > UpState South Carolina. I > > > > > > > have been keeping fish for more years than I > > > > would like to admit, and > > > > > > > every 5 years or so I mix everything up and > > > > change what I am keeping. > > > > > > > Currently we have a 1200-1500 gal pond that > > > > I built, and rebuilt, and > > > > > > > of course rebuilt again. I am happy with my > > > > final result for now, but > > > > > > > do keep it in the back of my head that > > > > Bigger is Better, so who > > > > > knows??? > > > > > > > We have goldfish up to 13" long with their > > > > offspring that have not > > > > > > > been taken by the Heron during the winter. I > > > > also have 2 medium size > > > > > > > butterfly Koi and over abundance of plants. > > > > > > > Indoors, we have a 58gal FW tank with a > > > > 30gal sum-filter (making > > > > > > > between 80 and 90 gal's give or take),and 2 > > > > external filters as well > > > > > > > housing 2 large Angels, 2 cory's, and a > > > > pleco. This tank was a Reef > > > > > > > tank for many years, but I am over all that > > > > work!!!!!! We also have a > > > > > > > smaller tank that have a single LionHead > > > > Goldfish that is sooo > > > > > > > friendly that he eats from your hand. He may > > > > be going to the pond for > > > > > > > the summer... > > > > > > > I've had all types of fish over the years, > > > > but never angel's until > > > > > > > around 8 months ago. I visited our LSF, and > > > > they had a tank full of > > > > > > > nickel sized babies that another customer > > > > had breed. I actually met > > > > > > > the breeder in the store, and he has Angel's > > > > and Discus. I bought > > > > > 6 of > > > > > > > the babies, and they all did great until 3 > > > > months back when something > > > > > > > went wacky and I lost one after another in a > > > > span of two weeks. Well > > > > > > > the remaining 2 are now hugh (4-5" > > > > diameter). I would like them to > > > > > > > breed or get another one to go in with them, > > > > but I don't know if I > > > > > > > have a mixed pair, two males, or two > > > > females. Does anyone have any > > > > > > > ideas on how to sex them? > > > > > > > James S. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 41049	From: aaron102272	Date: 6/19/2009
Subject: Off Topic? ~ Great Sale! @ www.CustomAquatic.com

https://www.customaquatic.com/ 10% off all Saltwater & Freshwater Additives and Water Conditioners ~ Hurry - Sale ends June 24th and for a limited time, take an extra 25% off Oceanpure & Oceanpure PRO Salt This was my first time buying from this website, they had the lowest prices I could find for products for my Planted Tank and the 4 Liter of Flourish Excel (I could not find any other place that even offers the 4liter size) I apologize if you think this is spam, however if you happen to know of a great website with the lowest prices available and awesome sales, I hope you too would be willing to share that info with me and the other members in the group that might be interested in saving some money. Thanks for reading, Aaron

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 41050	From: bill 1433	Date: 6/19/2009
Subject: Re: Ugh, now I no longer have any rams left :(

Hi Amber, As you may remember I have Rams, now only 2 in a 20 gallon long. Sometime ago I bought 3 green Cory's for the tank and they died. All one at a time and with no marks or weird things going on, just died. Thinking they were Wal-Mart fish, whose quality I thought questionable, I just bought 4 more Cory's two weeks ago and they are all dead!   Now comes the "why" or how.  Easy, the other night watching the fish closely, I noticed the larger of the rams beating the devil out of the last of the latest Cory purchase.  Since the fish had no other damage I am convinced that the Rams bullied them to the point of not eating and beat up on them every time they tried.   New advise on Rams?  Buy all you want, but buy them all at the same time and put all in the tank together with all their tank mates all at once.  Make no attempt to add any fish in their tank afterward.  When the Rams were in a community tank with lots of other fish, no problems. When I gave them their own tank first and then tried adding fish problems.  Just food for thought.  If the bio-load on the tank is too great, use Dr. Tim's.   ol' bill------not grumpy BUT I have been called cranky! --- On Fri, 6/19/09, Amber Berglund <amber@...> wrote: > From: Amber Berglund <amber@...> > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: Ugh, now I no longer have any rams left :( > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Date: Friday, June 19, 2009, 5:21 PM > If they aren't as bad as Angel's then > I may consider them ;) > Ram's are fairly docile most of the time, but they do some > chasing if > they have a territory they want to claim, but they don't > tend to chase > other fish much, mostly just other rams. I started with 3, > one died > right away to ich and I'm pretty sure the red tailed > catfish ate one, > and this last one was found unharmed looking but very dead > on the bottom > of the tank :( > I enjoy watching them because they like to flutter in place > when they > see something interesting in the tank. > > Amber > > Jpateson@... > wrote: > > > > > > Amber, > > > > I'm thinking about getting some Rams, but I don't know > how they get along > > with other fish. The Kribs will "control" whatever > part of the tank the > > babies are in, other than that they are good fish for > a community tank.... > > > > Jim > > > > > > In a message dated 6/19/2009 11:56:53 A.M. Central > Daylight Time, > > amber@... > <mailto:amber%40rose-fields.com> writes: > > > > Are they albino Kribs? hehe. > > And I have a fed ex account, I can ship it discounted > that way, that's > > how I get my "cool" fish now days ;) > > I prefer the rams myself (I think they're prettier), > how territorial do > > the Kribensis' get? > > I plan on picking up more rams when I can afford them > though. > > > > Amber > > > > Jim Pat. wrote: > > > > > > > > > Amber, > > > > > > Want any Krib's? My male/female have been busy, > from the first bunch I > > > have ~20 the size of neons and the new bunch is > around 35. It's > > > interesting how they "seperate" the other fish > from their new > > > batch.....If it wasn't so expensive to get them > to Alaska I would send > > > you 10 or 15.... So far I haven't found a local > fish store that wants > > > them... > > > > > > JIm > > > > > > --- In _AquaticLife@AquaticLife@Aqu_ > > (mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>) > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLifemailto:AquaticLmai>, > Amber Berglund <amber@...> > > wrote: > > > > > > > > Found my last ram dead this evening, I'm > pretty sure it was the > > Angel's > > > > fault. They've gone into spawning again and > are nasty little > > buggers. I > > > > was messing with the Rena xp4 and the male > nipped me quite good, > > > shocked > > > > me because I wasn't looking and didn't > expect it, when I jerked my arm > > > > out of the tank I scared Spike (my severum) > and he ran into hiding, > > LOL. > > > > I urged the hubby to finish welding my stand > together so I can set up > > > > the 55 gallon for the Angel's, I already > have their cycled media > > in the > > > > Rena Xp 4 waiting to be transfered into the > other filter that came > > with > > > > the 55 gallon. Getting tired of them picking > on all of the other fish, > > > > I'm sure everyone will be glad when they go > ;) > > > > I think I know what I'm going to be ordering > next on my fish order > > > > (Rams, and I think I want to get some german > ones this time so I can > > > see > > > > what they really look like in person, all > the pictures seem to look so > > > > similar between the bolivian's and the > german blue rams). > > > > > > > > Amber > > > > > > > > > > > > > > **************Download the AOL Classifieds Toolbar for > local deals at > > your > > fingertips. > > (http://toolbar.aol.com/aolclassifieds/download.html?ncid=emlcntusdown00000004 > > > <http://toolbar.aol.com/aolclassifieds/download.html?ncid=emlcntusdown00000004>) > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > > > > ------------------------------------ > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when > replying, Thank You. > ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> > ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> > PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is > NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of > the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new > subject (was re: old subject)" <- > <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. > , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. > > If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of > unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by > clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the home page.  > > Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com > to receive the digest, which includes up to 25 posts at a > time in a single email > > Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com > for the No E-Mail option where you will still be able to > read messages on the group and post replies. > > Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com > to receive individual e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links > > >     mailto:AquaticLife-fullfeatured@yahoogroups.com > > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 41051	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 6/19/2009
Subject: Re: Ugh, now I no longer have any rams left :(

I'm going to wait to purchase any Rams until after I move my 2 Angel's as I want to make sure they won't get bullied by my "angry little spawners" ;) I'm excited to see if my Angel's can manage not to eat all their babies when they are in their own tank. Which kind of rams did you purchase and do you have any pics of them anywhere yet? ;) hehe. I have heard a rumor somewhere that the german rams are a little more territorial than the bolivian rams, but I'm not exactly sure what kind I had before as my LFS only had them labled Rams, LOL, and when I asked she looked really unsure and sounded like she was guessing when she said she thought they were the bolivian rams. My last one was doing really good, the only thing that I've done is my usual tank maintenance and remove the red tailed catfish from the tank, oh and I unplugged the UV light figured it didn't need to be going anymore since my ich outbreak is long over in that tank (I forgot I had it running, LOL). I don't see how unplugging the light would affect the ram, nor a routine tank cleaning/filter cleaning. I haven't added any fish in months either. Nothing else is acting oddly unless you consider cowering on one side of the tank from the nasty Angel's as odd ;) (I don't consider it odd, I would be hiding from them too if I was in the tank, LOL). The Severum is the only one that doesn't cower from the Angel's and it's because he's bigger than they are, but that doesn't stop them from trying to chase him off ;). Amber bill 1433 wrote: > > > > Hi Amber, > > As you may remember I have Rams, now only 2 in a 20 gallon long. > Sometime ago I bought 3 green Cory's for the tank and they died. All > one at a time and with no marks or weird things going on, just died. > Thinking they were Wal-Mart fish, whose quality I thought > questionable, I just bought 4 more Cory's two weeks ago and they are > all dead! > > Now comes the "why" or how. Easy, the other night watching the fish > closely, I noticed the larger of the rams beating the devil out of the > last of the latest Cory purchase. Since the fish had no other damage > I am convinced that the Rams bullied them to the point of not eating > and beat up on them every time they tried. > > New advise on Rams? Buy all you want, but buy them all at the same > time and put all in the tank together with all their tank mates all at > once. Make no attempt to add any fish in their tank afterward. When > the Rams were in a community tank with lots of other fish, no problems. > When I gave them their own tank first and then tried adding fish > problems. Just food for thought. If the bio-load on the tank is too > great, use Dr. Tim's. > > ol' bill------not grumpy BUT I have been called cranky! > > --- On Fri, 6/19/09, Amber Berglund <amber@... > <mailto:amber%40rose-fields.com>> wrote: > > > From: Amber Berglund <amber@... > <mailto:amber%40rose-fields.com>> > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: Ugh, now I no longer have any rams > left :( > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > Date: Friday, June 19, 2009, 5:21 PM > > If they aren't as bad as Angel's then > > I may consider them ;) > > Ram's are fairly docile most of the time, but they do some > > chasing if > > they have a territory they want to claim, but they don't > > tend to chase > > other fish much, mostly just other rams. I started with 3, > > one died > > right away to ich and I'm pretty sure the red tailed > > catfish ate one, > > and this last one was found unharmed looking but very dead > > on the bottom > > of the tank :( > > I enjoy watching them because they like to flutter in place > > when they > > see something interesting in the tank. > > > > Amber > > > > Jpateson@... <mailto:Jpateson%40aol.com> > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > Amber, > > > > > > I'm thinking about getting some Rams, but I don't know > > how they get along > > > with other fish. The Kribs will "control" whatever > > part of the tank the > > > babies are in, other than that they are good fish for > > a community tank.... > > > > > > Jim > > > > > > > > > In a message dated 6/19/2009 11:56:53 A.M. Central > > Daylight Time, > > > amber@... <mailto:amber%40rose-fields.com> > > <mailto:amber%40rose-fields.com> writes: > > > > > > Are they albino Kribs? hehe. > > > And I have a fed ex account, I can ship it discounted > > that way, that's > > > how I get my "cool" fish now days ;) > > > I prefer the rams myself (I think they're prettier), > > how territorial do > > > the Kribensis' get? > > > I plan on picking up more rams when I can afford them > > though. > > > > > > Amber > > > > > > Jim Pat. wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > Amber, > > > > > > > > Want any Krib's? My male/female have been busy, > > from the first bunch I > > > > have ~20 the size of neons and the new bunch is > > around 35. It's > > > > interesting how they "seperate" the other fish > > from their new > > > > batch.....If it wasn't so expensive to get them > > to Alaska I would send > > > > you 10 or 15.... So far I haven't found a local > > fish store that wants > > > > them... > > > > > > > > JIm > > > > > > > > --- In _AquaticLife@AquaticLife@Aqu_ > > > (mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>) > > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLifemailto:AquaticLmai>, > > Amber Berglund <amber@...> > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > Found my last ram dead this evening, I'm > > pretty sure it was the > > > Angel's > > > > > fault. They've gone into spawning again and > > are nasty little > > > buggers. I > > > > > was messing with the Rena xp4 and the male > > nipped me quite good, > > > > shocked > > > > > me because I wasn't looking and didn't > > expect it, when I jerked my arm > > > > > out of the tank I scared Spike (my severum) > > and he ran into hiding, > > > LOL. > > > > > I urged the hubby to finish welding my stand > > together so I can set up > > > > > the 55 gallon for the Angel's, I already > > have their cycled media > > > in the > > > > > Rena Xp 4 waiting to be transfered into the > > other filter that came > > > with > > > > > the 55 gallon. Getting tired of them picking > > on all of the other fish, > > > > > I'm sure everyone will be glad when they go > > ;) > > > > > I think I know what I'm going to be ordering > > next on my fish order > > > > > (Rams, and I think I want to get some german > > ones this time so I can > > > > see > > > > > what they really look like in person, all > > the pictures seem to look so > > > > > similar between the bolivian's and the > > german blue rams). > > > > > > > > > > Amber > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > **************Download the AOL Classifieds Toolbar for > > local deals at > > > your > > > fingertips. > > > > (http://toolbar.aol.com/aolclassifieds/download.html?ncid=emlcntusdown00000004 > <http://toolbar.aol.com/aolclassifieds/download.html?ncid=emlcntusdown00000004> > > > > > > <http://toolbar.aol.com/aolclassifieds/download.html?ncid=emlcntusdown00000004 > <http://toolbar.aol.com/aolclassifieds/download.html?ncid=emlcntusdown00000004>>) > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > > > > > > > > > ------------------------------------ > > > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when > > replying, Thank You. > > ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> > > ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> > > PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is > > NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of > > the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new > > subject (was re: old subject)" <- > > <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. > > , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. > > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. > > > > If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of > > unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by > > clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the home page. > > > > Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:aquaticlife-digest%40yahoogroups.com> > > to receive the digest, which includes up to 25 posts at a > > time in a single email > > > > Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:aquaticlife-nomail%40yahoogroups.com> > > for the No E-Mail option where you will still be able to > > read messages on the group and post replies. > > > > Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:aquaticlife-normal%40yahoogroups.com> > > to receive individual e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > mailto:AquaticLife-fullfeatured@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife-fullfeatured%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 41052	From: Raymond Wetzel	Date: 6/19/2009
Subject: Re: Ray Fan Club

Donna, \\Steve//, Thanks very very much for the kind words. It's nice to know when one is well thought of. I truly appreciate both of you guys' compliments. Ray --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, Donna Ransome <djransome@...> wrote: > > I know Ray too, but leave me out of that fogey group please, LOL. You > couldn't know a nicer person Amber. But you definitely have to be sure of > your info before you pass it along. If you can say IME that's best. If you > have the citation, that's second best. If you just read it somewhere, > always a good idea to add a caveat like FWIW and could be truth or myth. > > > > _____ > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On > Behalf Of Steve Szabo > Sent: Thursday, June 18, 2009 11:08 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: Sexing AngelFish? > > > > > > > > > Amber, > > As you become more experienced, you will learn to be more discriminating > with information you find on the web, in published articles, and even in > books, especially when it goes against your personal experience. > > Ray is really a nice guy, he really is. He simply wanted a reference to > the material you were passing along so he could check it out himself. > The problem is that written communication does not always come across as > you mean it to. Since I do know Ray (us old fogeys in the hobby need to > stick together), I can read the message as he probably meant it., > instead of reading it verbatim as you have. You need to learn to take > what is said in e-mail with a little grain of salt rather than taking > offense immediately. If ray meant to cut you down, believe me, you would > have known it. > > \\Steve// > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com > [mailto:AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com] > On Behalf Of Amber Berglund > Sent: Thursday, June 18, 2009 9:46 PM > To: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: Sexing AngelFish? > > I don't hold onto all the links I read like Lenny does, so I have no > idea what breeder site on Angel's I read that on. > I don't mind being corrected Ray, but sometimes I wish you weren't quite > > so mean about it sometimes, I didn't see you offering him any help on > getting his Angel's to breed and I was doing my best with what info I > have read on them, and since I have no problems getting mine to spawn I > was trying to pass on tips that I had read elsewhere. > If I was writing a paper on breeding Angel's then I could understand > asking for all of my sources and page info but I'm just trying to help > someone out with the info that I had found when I was researching. Guess > > I will just stick to the info that I personally have experienced since I > > seem to be wrong so often when I try to pass on info that I've read. > > Amber > > Raymond Wetzel wrote: > > > > > > NO, Not So! I don't know where you read that, but I wonder if perhaps > > you misread it, If not, whoever wrote that is wrong, other fish in the > > > tank WILL NOT induce any Angelfish to spawn. Could you please tell me > > where you read this? I would tend to doubt that it woyuld be in any > > well-penned book, as this kind of erroneous info has a way of getting > > itself known as such as it spreads throughout the hobby. I did notice > > that you advised James of this; just another case of you can't believe > > > all you read. If it was on a web site, I can understand that -- no one > > > should put complete faith in everything they read up there, and pass > > it along, without knowing if it's true. > > > > Tetras, or any other small fish, when put with a breeding pair of any > > species of substrate-sawning Cichlids are intended to draw the > > attention of either one of the more aggressive partners of the pair > > away from the other partner so that the least aggressive partner does > > not take the full aggression of the more overbearing one. > > > > They (these "dither fish") act to initiate the territorial behavior of > > > both partners of the breesding pair so that they act in symphony with > > each other towards one goal -- to keep the intruders out of the > > breeding area. In this way, attention is drawn to these dither fish, > > rather than each other. The pair is more apt to act in harmony rather > > than one beating up on the other. This methods of using dither fish is > > > usually reserved for much more aggressive Cichlids. Most Angelfish > > pairs do not need dither fish with them, nor will these dither fish > > induce their spawning. They will spawn when they want to spawn. Most > > good young pairs will spawn every eight days once they start spawning, > > > when allowed (when you pull the slate, to set their breeding cycle > > going again). They will taper off after about 2 1/2 years of age (they > > > will start spawning between 7 and 8 months, usually closer to 9 > > months). Ray > > > > ---In AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>, Amber Berglund <amber@> > wrote: > > > > > > I've read from some breeders that some Angelfish need activity in > the > > > tank from other fish to help induce breeding habits, but mine don't > > seem > > > to have any problem with that so far, will have to see how they act > > alone. > > > > > > Amber > > > > > > bill 1433 wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Amber, > > > > > > > > If you hit those Angels at a wrong time the life-expediency of > > > > those Tetra's will be about 5 minutes! Once you give the fish > their > > > > own tank, best leave it that way and save on your tetra pennies! > > > > > > > > Bill > > > > > > > > --- On Thu, 6/18/09, Amber Berglund <amber@ > > > > <mailto:amber%40rose-fields.com>> wrote: > > > > > > > > > From: Amber Berglund <amber@ > > > > <mailto:amber%40rose-fields.com>> > > > > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: Sexing AngelFish? > > > > > To: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > yahoogroups.com > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > Date: Thursday, June 18, 2009, 5:09 PM > > > > > Shipping freshwater fish tends to be > > > > > less stressful on the fish than > > > > > saltwater from what I have heard (rumors), but I don't have > > > > > saltwater > > > > > tanks either, so I'm not sure personally. > > > > > Mine seem to go into their spawning behavior about once a > > > > > month or so. I > > > > > leave the eggs in the tank and when I move my 2 angel's > > > > > over to their > > > > > own 55 gallon I will let them raise them by themselves. > > > > > Some breeders also put in faster swimming tetras to help > > > > > induce breeding > > > > > too, you may have a mated pair and not know it as they > > > > > haven't felt the > > > > > desire to breed just yet. Have you ever had any middle > > > > > swimming fast > > > > > fish such as tetra's in the tank with your Angel's? > > > > > Silver dollars are a popular fish to put in with Angel's, > > > > > but they get > > > > > big (bigger than the Angel's I think), I have never had any > > > > > myself. But > > > > > my LFS has some in stock, LOL. > > > > > > > > > > Amber > > > > > > > > > > nicurns@ <mailto:nicurns%40bellsouth.net> > > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Amber, Thanks for replying. I don't see any aggressive > > > > > behavior within > > > > > > the tank except between the two angels at times. It > > > > > almost appears as > > > > > > though they are playing!!!LOL > > > > > > The only other fish in that tank are 2 cory's and a > > > > > medium sized > > > > > > Pleco. The angels stay to themselves as do the cory's > > > > > and I rarely see > > > > > > the Pleco except an occasional darting whenever > > > > > entering the room. > > > > > > Regarding your angels.... Once they began spawning, > > > > > how often did this > > > > > > re-occur? Do you allow them to care for the babies or > > > > > do you remove > > > > > > them to a seperate tank? > > > > > > I am planning on getting another larger angel or two, > > > > > to go into this > > > > > > tank but just having issues finding larger ones in my > > > > > area. I have > > > > > > purchased marine fish over the web in the past, but > > > > > have not done so > > > > > > with freshwater species yet. Maybe I'll start looking > > > > > into this over > > > > > > the next few weeks. > > > > > > > > > > > > Thanks, > > > > > > James S. > > > > > > > > > > > > --- In AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > yahoogroups.com > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>, Amber > > > > > Berglund <amber@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Angel's are not able to be sexed unless they are > > > > > actively laying eggs > > > > > > > (spawning). Their sexual organs are inside > > > > > obviously ;) LOL. > > > > > > > I have a mated pair of angel's and I just > > > > > happened to get lucky that > > > > > > > way, I started out with 2 and one died, so I > > > > > replaced it with another > > > > > > > and that 2nd one turned out to be female and my > > > > > first was a male. > > > > > > > Most people get groups of angel's and wait until > > > > > they pair up to find a > > > > > > > pair to mate. > > > > > > > Are your angel's showing any sign of mating > > > > > behavior at all? When mine > > > > > > > get ready to lay eggs they will chase all the > > > > > other fish to the other > > > > > > > side of the tank and start cleaning a spot to lay > > > > > their eggs on (while > > > > > > > the other one guards for intruders the female > > > > > will start to lay the > > > > > > > eggs, then they take turns guarding while the > > > > > male fertilizes the > > > > > > eggs). > > > > > > > If you haven't seen too much aggression towards > > > > > your other fish and the > > > > > > > other 2 teaming up together and chasing the other > > > > > fish away then I'd > > > > > > > have to guess you have 2 of the same sex. > > > > > > > It may be hard to introduce smaller angel's at > > > > > this point in time as > > > > > > the > > > > > > > bigger ones will pick on the smaller ones. > > > > > > > I suppose you could slowly try introducing some > > > > > new angel's with a tank > > > > > > > divider and see how aggressive the big ones are > > > > > with the divider in. If > > > > > > > they are really aggressive and attack at the > > > > > divider then you may have > > > > > > > to wait until the smaller angel's get closer in > > > > > size to the big ones, > > > > > > > you can speed up that process (a little) by > > > > > frequent water changes and > > > > > > > feeding the young Angel's really well, just make > > > > > sure to keep the water > > > > > > > changes going (don't go overboard on them, once a > > > > > day should me more > > > > > > > than plenty if you're doing 25% changes), this > > > > > helps remove the > > > > > > hormones > > > > > > > from the water so the fish will grow a little > > > > > faster. Unless you can > > > > > > > talk to the breeder some how and see if they > > > > > might be willing to trade > > > > > > > you a mated pair ;) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Amber > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > nicurns@ wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Hello all. My name is James and I live in > > > > > UpState South Carolina. I > > > > > > > > have been keeping fish for more years than I > > > > > would like to admit, and > > > > > > > > every 5 years or so I mix everything up and > > > > > change what I am keeping. > > > > > > > > Currently we have a 1200-1500 gal pond that > > > > > I built, and rebuilt, and > > > > > > > > of course rebuilt again. I am happy with my > > > > > final result for now, but > > > > > > > > do keep it in the back of my head that > > > > > Bigger is Better, so who > > > > > > knows??? > > > > > > > > We have goldfish up to 13" long with their > > > > > offspring that have not > > > > > > > > been taken by the Heron during the winter. I > > > > > also have 2 medium size > > > > > > > > butterfly Koi and over abundance of plants. > > > > > > > > Indoors, we have a 58gal FW tank with a > > > > > 30gal sum-filter (making > > > > > > > > between 80 and 90 gal's give or take),and 2 > > > > > external filters as well > > > > > > > > housing 2 large Angels, 2 cory's, and a > > > > > pleco. This tank was a Reef > > > > > > > > tank for many years, but I am over all that > > > > > work!!!!!! We also have a > > > > > > > > smaller tank that have a single LionHead > > > > > Goldfish that is sooo > > > > > > > > friendly that he eats from your hand. He may > > > > > be going to the pond for > > > > > > > > the summer... > > > > > > > > I've had all types of fish over the years, > > > > > but never angel's until > > > > > > > > around 8 months ago. I visited our LSF, and > > > > > they had a tank full of > > > > > > > > nickel sized babies that another customer > > > > > had breed. I actually met > > > > > > > > the breeder in the store, and he has Angel's > > > > > and Discus. I bought > > > > > > 6 of > > > > > > > > the babies, and they all did great until 3 > > > > > months back when something > > > > > > > > went wacky and I lost one after another in a > > > > > span of two weeks. Well > > > > > > > > the remaining 2 are now hugh (4-5" > > > > > diameter). I would like them to > > > > > > > > breed or get another one to go in with them, > > > > > but I don't know if I > > > > > > > > have a mixed pair, two males, or two > > > > > females. Does anyone have any > > > > > > > > ideas on how to sex them? > > > > > > > > James S. > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 41053	From: biG poppa	Date: 6/19/2009
Subject: Re: Ugh, now I no longer have any rams left :(

are my replies goign throw? --- On Fri, 6/19/09, Amber Berglund <amber@...> wrote: From: Amber Berglund <amber@...> Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: Ugh, now I no longer have any rams left :( To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Date: Friday, June 19, 2009, 8:31 PM I'm going to wait to purchase any Rams until after I move my 2 Angel's as I want to make sure they won't get bullied by my "angry little spawners" ;) I'm excited to see if my Angel's can manage not to eat all their babies when they are in their own tank. Which kind of rams did you purchase and do you have any pics of them anywhere yet? ;) hehe. I have heard a rumor somewhere that the german rams are a little more territorial than the bolivian rams, but I'm not exactly sure what kind I had before as my LFS only had them labled Rams, LOL, and when I asked she looked really unsure and sounded like she was guessing when she said she thought they were the bolivian rams. My last one was doing really good, the only thing that I've done is my usual tank maintenance and remove the red tailed catfish from the tank, oh and I unplugged the UV light figured it didn't need to be going anymore since my ich outbreak is long over in that tank (I forgot I had it running, LOL). I don't see how unplugging the light would affect the ram, nor a routine tank cleaning/filter cleaning. I haven't added any fish in months either. Nothing else is acting oddly unless you consider cowering on one side of the tank from the nasty Angel's as odd ;) (I don't consider it odd, I would be hiding from them too if I was in the tank, LOL). The Severum is the only one that doesn't cower from the Angel's and it's because he's bigger than they are, but that doesn't stop them from trying to chase him off ;). Amber bill 1433 wrote: > > > > Hi Amber, > > As you may remember I have Rams, now only 2 in a 20 gallon long. > Sometime ago I bought 3 green Cory's for the tank and they died. All > one at a time and with no marks or weird things going on, just died. > Thinking they were Wal-Mart fish, whose quality I thought > questionable, I just bought 4 more Cory's two weeks ago and they are > all dead! > > Now comes the "why" or how. Easy, the other night watching the fish > closely, I noticed the larger of the rams beating the devil out of the > last of the latest Cory purchase. Since the fish had no other damage > I am convinced that the Rams bullied them to the point of not eating > and beat up on them every time they tried. > > New advise on Rams? Buy all you want, but buy them all at the same > time and put all in the tank together with all their tank mates all at > once. Make no attempt to add any fish in their tank afterward. When > the Rams were in a community tank with lots of other fish, no problems. > When I gave them their own tank first and then tried adding fish > problems. Just food for thought. If the bio-load on the tank is too > great, use Dr. Tim's. > > ol' bill------not grumpy BUT I have been called cranky! > > --- On Fri, 6/19/09, Amber Berglund <amber@rose-fields. com > <mailto:amber% 40rose-fields. com>> wrote: > > > From: Amber Berglund <amber@rose-fields. com > <mailto:amber% 40rose-fields. com>> > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: Ugh, now I no longer have any rams > left :( > > To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com <mailto:AquaticLife %40yahoogroups. com> > > Date: Friday, June 19, 2009, 5:21 PM > > If they aren't as bad as Angel's then > > I may consider them ;) > > Ram's are fairly docile most of the time, but they do some > > chasing if > > they have a territory they want to claim, but they don't > > tend to chase > > other fish much, mostly just other rams. I started with 3, > > one died > > right away to ich and I'm pretty sure the red tailed > > catfish ate one, > > and this last one was found unharmed looking but very dead > > on the bottom > > of the tank :( > > I enjoy watching them because they like to flutter in place > > when they > > see something interesting in the tank. > > > > Amber > > > > Jpateson@aol. com <mailto:Jpateson% 40aol.com> > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > Amber, > > > > > > I'm thinking about getting some Rams, but I don't know > > how they get along > > > with other fish. The Kribs will "control" whatever > > part of the tank the > > > babies are in, other than that they are good fish for > > a community tank.... > > > > > > Jim > > > > > > > > > In a message dated 6/19/2009 11:56:53 A.M. Central > > Daylight Time, > > > amber@rose-fields. com <mailto:amber% 40rose-fields. com> > > <mailto:amber% 40rose-fields. com> writes: > > > > > > Are they albino Kribs? hehe. > > > And I have a fed ex account, I can ship it discounted > > that way, that's > > > how I get my "cool" fish now days ;) > > > I prefer the rams myself (I think they're prettier), > > how territorial do > > > the Kribensis' get? > > > I plan on picking up more rams when I can afford them > > though. > > > > > > Amber > > > > > > Jim Pat. wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > Amber, > > > > > > > > Want any Krib's? My male/female have been busy, > > from the first bunch I > > > > have ~20 the size of neons and the new bunch is > > around 35. It's > > > > interesting how they "seperate" the other fish > > from their new > > > > batch.....If it wasn't so expensive to get them > > to Alaska I would send > > > > you 10 or 15.... So far I haven't found a local > > fish store that wants > > > > them... > > > > > > > > JIm > > > > > > > > --- In _AquaticLife@ AquaticLife@ Aqu_ > > > (mailto:AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com > <mailto:AquaticLife %40yahoogroups. com> > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife %40yahoogroups. com>) > > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife mailto:AquaticLm ai>, > > Amber Berglund <amber@...> > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > Found my last ram dead this evening, I'm > > pretty sure it was the > > > Angel's > > > > > fault. They've gone into spawning again and > > are nasty little > > > buggers. I > > > > > was messing with the Rena xp4 and the male > > nipped me quite good, > > > > shocked > > > > > me because I wasn't looking and didn't > > expect it, when I jerked my arm > > > > > out of the tank I scared Spike (my severum) > > and he ran into hiding, > > > LOL. > > > > > I urged the hubby to finish welding my stand > > together so I can set up > > > > > the 55 gallon for the Angel's, I already > > have their cycled media > > > in the > > > > > Rena Xp 4 waiting to be transfered into the > > other filter that came > > > with > > > > > the 55 gallon. Getting tired of them picking > > on all of the other fish, > > > > > I'm sure everyone will be glad when they go > > ;) > > > > > I think I know what I'm going to be ordering > > next on my fish order > > > > > (Rams, and I think I want to get some german > > ones this time so I can > > > > see > > > > > what they really look like in person, all > > the pictures seem to look so > > > > > similar between the bolivian's and the > > german blue rams). > > > > > > > > > > Amber > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ************ **Download the AOL Classifieds Toolbar for > > local deals at > > > your > > > fingertips. > > > > (http://toolbar. aol.com/aolclass ifieds/download. html?ncid= emlcntusdown0000 0004 > <http://toolbar. aol.com/aolclass ifieds/download. html?ncid= emlcntusdown0000 0004> > > > > > > <http://toolbar. aol.com/aolclass ifieds/download. html?ncid= emlcntusdown0000 0004 > <http://toolbar. aol.com/aolclass ifieds/download. html?ncid= emlcntusdown0000 0004>>) > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > > > > > > > > > ------------ --------- --------- ------ > > > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when > > replying, Thank You. > > ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> > > ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> > > PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is > > NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of > > the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new > > subject (was re: old subject)" <- > > <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. > > , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. > > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. > > > > If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of > > unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by > > clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the home page. > > > > Or e-mail aquaticlife- digest@yahoogrou ps.com > <mailto:aquaticlife -digest%40yahoog roups.com> > > to receive the digest, which includes up to 25 posts at a > > time in a single email > > > > Or email aquaticlife- nomail@yahoogrou ps.com > <mailto:aquaticlife -nomail%40yahoog roups.com> > > for the No E-Mail option where you will still be able to > > read messages on the group and post replies. > > > > Or email aquaticlife- normal@yahoogrou ps.com > <mailto:aquaticlife -normal%40yahoog roups.com> > > to receive individual e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > mailto:AquaticLife- fullfeatured@ yahoogroups. com > <mailto:AquaticLife -fullfeatured% 40yahoogroups. com> > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 41054	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 6/19/2009
Subject: Re: Ugh, now I no longer have any rams left :(

I see this one, yes. Ram's are not too easy to find, there are a few sellers on aquabid.com though if you are looking for them. Amber biG poppa wrote: > > > are my replies goign throw? > > --- On Fri, 6/19/09, Amber Berglund <amber@... > <mailto:amber%40rose-fields.com>> wrote: > > From: Amber Berglund <amber@... > <mailto:amber%40rose-fields.com>> > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: Ugh, now I no longer have any rams left :( > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Date: Friday, June 19, 2009, 8:31 PM > > I'm going to wait to purchase any Rams until after I move my 2 Angel's > as I want to make sure they won't get bullied by my "angry little > spawners" ;) > I'm excited to see if my Angel's can manage not to eat all their babies > when they are in their own tank. > Which kind of rams did you purchase and do you have any pics of them > anywhere yet? ;) hehe. > I have heard a rumor somewhere that the german rams are a little more > territorial than the bolivian rams, but I'm not exactly sure what kind I > had before as my LFS only had them labled Rams, LOL, and when I asked > she looked really unsure and sounded like she was guessing when she said > she thought they were the bolivian rams. > My last one was doing really good, the only thing that I've done is my > usual tank maintenance and remove the red tailed catfish from the tank, > oh and I unplugged the UV light figured it didn't need to be going > anymore since my ich outbreak is long over in that tank (I forgot I had > it running, LOL). I don't see how unplugging the light would affect the > ram, nor a routine tank cleaning/filter cleaning. I haven't added any > fish in months either. Nothing else is acting oddly unless you consider > cowering on one side of the tank from the nasty Angel's as odd ;) (I > don't consider it odd, I would be hiding from them too if I was in the > tank, LOL). The Severum is the only one that doesn't cower from the > Angel's and it's because he's bigger than they are, but that doesn't > stop them from trying to chase him off ;). > > Amber > > bill 1433 wrote: > > > > > > > > Hi Amber, > > > > As you may remember I have Rams, now only 2 in a 20 gallon long. > > Sometime ago I bought 3 green Cory's for the tank and they died. All > > one at a time and with no marks or weird things going on, just died. > > Thinking they were Wal-Mart fish, whose quality I thought > > questionable, I just bought 4 more Cory's two weeks ago and they are > > all dead! > > > > Now comes the "why" or how. Easy, the other night watching the fish > > closely, I noticed the larger of the rams beating the devil out of the > > last of the latest Cory purchase. Since the fish had no other damage > > I am convinced that the Rams bullied them to the point of not eating > > and beat up on them every time they tried. > > > > New advise on Rams? Buy all you want, but buy them all at the same > > time and put all in the tank together with all their tank mates all at > > once. Make no attempt to add any fish in their tank afterward. When > > the Rams were in a community tank with lots of other fish, no problems. > > When I gave them their own tank first and then tried adding fish > > problems. Just food for thought. If the bio-load on the tank is too > > great, use Dr. Tim's. > > > > ol' bill------not grumpy BUT I have been called cranky! > > > > --- On Fri, 6/19/09, Amber Berglund <amber@rose-fields. com > > <mailto:amber% 40rose-fields. com>> wrote: > > > > > From: Amber Berglund <amber@rose-fields. com > > <mailto:amber% 40rose-fields. com>> > > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: Ugh, now I no longer have any rams > > left :( > > > To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com <mailto:AquaticLife > %40yahoogroups. com> > > > Date: Friday, June 19, 2009, 5:21 PM > > > If they aren't as bad as Angel's then > > > I may consider them ;) > > > Ram's are fairly docile most of the time, but they do some > > > chasing if > > > they have a territory they want to claim, but they don't > > > tend to chase > > > other fish much, mostly just other rams. I started with 3, > > > one died > > > right away to ich and I'm pretty sure the red tailed > > > catfish ate one, > > > and this last one was found unharmed looking but very dead > > > on the bottom > > > of the tank :( > > > I enjoy watching them because they like to flutter in place > > > when they > > > see something interesting in the tank. > > > > > > Amber > > > > > > Jpateson@aol. com <mailto:Jpateson% 40aol.com> > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > Amber, > > > > > > > > I'm thinking about getting some Rams, but I don't know > > > how they get along > > > > with other fish. The Kribs will "control" whatever > > > part of the tank the > > > > babies are in, other than that they are good fish for > > > a community tank.... > > > > > > > > Jim > > > > > > > > > > > > In a message dated 6/19/2009 11:56:53 A.M. Central > > > Daylight Time, > > > > amber@rose-fields. com <mailto:amber% 40rose-fields. com> > > > <mailto:amber% 40rose-fields. com> writes: > > > > > > > > Are they albino Kribs? hehe. > > > > And I have a fed ex account, I can ship it discounted > > > that way, that's > > > > how I get my "cool" fish now days ;) > > > > I prefer the rams myself (I think they're prettier), > > > how territorial do > > > > the Kribensis' get? > > > > I plan on picking up more rams when I can afford them > > > though. > > > > > > > > Amber > > > > > > > > Jim Pat. wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Amber, > > > > > > > > > > Want any Krib's? My male/female have been busy, > > > from the first bunch I > > > > > have ~20 the size of neons and the new bunch is > > > around 35. It's > > > > > interesting how they "seperate" the other fish > > > from their new > > > > > batch.....If it wasn't so expensive to get them > > > to Alaska I would send > > > > > you 10 or 15.... So far I haven't found a local > > > fish store that wants > > > > > them... > > > > > > > > > > JIm > > > > > > > > > > --- In _AquaticLife@ AquaticLife@ Aqu_ > > > > (mailto:AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com > > <mailto:AquaticLife %40yahoogroups. com> > > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife %40yahoogroups. com>) > > > > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife mailto:AquaticLm ai>, > > > Amber Berglund <amber@...> > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > Found my last ram dead this evening, I'm > > > pretty sure it was the > > > > Angel's > > > > > > fault. They've gone into spawning again and > > > are nasty little > > > > buggers. I > > > > > > was messing with the Rena xp4 and the male > > > nipped me quite good, > > > > > shocked > > > > > > me because I wasn't looking and didn't > > > expect it, when I jerked my arm > > > > > > out of the tank I scared Spike (my severum) > > > and he ran into hiding, > > > > LOL. > > > > > > I urged the hubby to finish welding my stand > > > together so I can set up > > > > > > the 55 gallon for the Angel's, I already > > > have their cycled media > > > > in the > > > > > > Rena Xp 4 waiting to be transfered into the > > > other filter that came > > > > with > > > > > > the 55 gallon. Getting tired of them picking > > > on all of the other fish, > > > > > > I'm sure everyone will be glad when they go > > > ;) > > > > > > I think I know what I'm going to be ordering > > > next on my fish order > > > > > > (Rams, and I think I want to get some german > > > ones this time so I can > > > > > see > > > > > > what they really look like in person, all > > > the pictures seem to look so > > > > > > similar between the bolivian's and the > > > german blue rams). > > > > > > > > > > > > Amber > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ************ **Download the AOL Classifieds Toolbar for > > > local deals at > > > > your > > > > fingertips. > > > > > > (http://toolbar. aol.com/aolclass ifieds/download. html?ncid= > emlcntusdown0000 0004 > > <http://toolbar. aol.com/aolclass ifieds/download. html?ncid= > emlcntusdown0000 0004> > > > > > > > > > <http://toolbar. aol.com/aolclass ifieds/download. html?ncid= > emlcntusdown0000 0004 > > <http://toolbar. aol.com/aolclass ifieds/download. html?ncid= > emlcntusdown0000 0004>>) > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ------------ --------- --------- ------ > > > > > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when > > > replying, Thank You. > > > ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> > > > ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> > > > PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is > > > NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of > > > the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new > > > subject (was re: old subject)" <- > > > <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. > > > , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. > > > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. > > > > > > If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of > > > unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by > > > clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the home page. > > > > > > Or e-mail aquaticlife- digest@yahoogrou ps.com > > <mailto:aquaticlife -digest%40yahoog roups.com> > > > to receive the digest, which includes up to 25 posts at a > > > time in a single email > > > > > > Or email aquaticlife- nomail@yahoogrou ps.com > > <mailto:aquaticlife -nomail%40yahoog roups.com> > > > for the No E-Mail option where you will still be able to > > > read messages on the group and post replies. > > > > > > Or email aquaticlife- normal@yahoogrou ps.com > > <mailto:aquaticlife -normal%40yahoog roups.com> > > > to receive individual e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > > > > mailto:AquaticLife- fullfeatured@ yahoogroups. com > > <mailto:AquaticLife -fullfeatured% 40yahoogroups. com> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 41055	From: biG poppa	Date: 6/19/2009
Subject: Re: Ugh, now I no longer have any rams left :(

Amber   Thank you I'm also interested in getting some kribs sense i set up my new 55g tank will they mix with gouramis? --- On Fri, 6/19/09, Amber Berglund <amber@...> wrote: From: Amber Berglund <amber@...> Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: Ugh, now I no longer have any rams left :( To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Date: Friday, June 19, 2009, 8:44 PM I see this one, yes. Ram's are not too easy to find, there are a few sellers on aquabid.com though if you are looking for them. Amber biG poppa wrote: > > > are my replies goign throw? > > --- On Fri, 6/19/09, Amber Berglund <amber@rose-fields. com > <mailto:amber% 40rose-fields. com>> wrote: > > From: Amber Berglund <amber@rose-fields. com > <mailto:amber% 40rose-fields. com>> > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: Ugh, now I no longer have any rams left :( > To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com <mailto:AquaticLife %40yahoogroups. com> > Date: Friday, June 19, 2009, 8:31 PM > > I'm going to wait to purchase any Rams until after I move my 2 Angel's > as I want to make sure they won't get bullied by my "angry little > spawners" ;) > I'm excited to see if my Angel's can manage not to eat all their babies > when they are in their own tank. > Which kind of rams did you purchase and do you have any pics of them > anywhere yet? ;) hehe. > I have heard a rumor somewhere that the german rams are a little more > territorial than the bolivian rams, but I'm not exactly sure what kind I > had before as my LFS only had them labled Rams, LOL, and when I asked > she looked really unsure and sounded like she was guessing when she said > she thought they were the bolivian rams. > My last one was doing really good, the only thing that I've done is my > usual tank maintenance and remove the red tailed catfish from the tank, > oh and I unplugged the UV light figured it didn't need to be going > anymore since my ich outbreak is long over in that tank (I forgot I had > it running, LOL). I don't see how unplugging the light would affect the > ram, nor a routine tank cleaning/filter cleaning. I haven't added any > fish in months either. Nothing else is acting oddly unless you consider > cowering on one side of the tank from the nasty Angel's as odd ;) (I > don't consider it odd, I would be hiding from them too if I was in the > tank, LOL). The Severum is the only one that doesn't cower from the > Angel's and it's because he's bigger than they are, but that doesn't > stop them from trying to chase him off ;). > > Amber > > bill 1433 wrote: > > > > > > > > Hi Amber, > > > > As you may remember I have Rams, now only 2 in a 20 gallon long. > > Sometime ago I bought 3 green Cory's for the tank and they died. All > > one at a time and with no marks or weird things going on, just died. > > Thinking they were Wal-Mart fish, whose quality I thought > > questionable, I just bought 4 more Cory's two weeks ago and they are > > all dead! > > > > Now comes the "why" or how. Easy, the other night watching the fish > > closely, I noticed the larger of the rams beating the devil out of the > > last of the latest Cory purchase. Since the fish had no other damage > > I am convinced that the Rams bullied them to the point of not eating > > and beat up on them every time they tried. > > > > New advise on Rams? Buy all you want, but buy them all at the same > > time and put all in the tank together with all their tank mates all at > > once. Make no attempt to add any fish in their tank afterward. When > > the Rams were in a community tank with lots of other fish, no problems. > > When I gave them their own tank first and then tried adding fish > > problems. Just food for thought. If the bio-load on the tank is too > > great, use Dr. Tim's. > > > > ol' bill------not grumpy BUT I have been called cranky! > > > > --- On Fri, 6/19/09, Amber Berglund <amber@rose- fields. com > > <mailto:amber% 40rose-fields. com>> wrote: > > > > > From: Amber Berglund <amber@rose- fields. com > > <mailto:amber% 40rose-fields. com>> > > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: Ugh, now I no longer have any rams > > left :( > > > To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com <mailto:AquaticLife > %40yahoogroups. com> > > > Date: Friday, June 19, 2009, 5:21 PM > > > If they aren't as bad as Angel's then > > > I may consider them ;) > > > Ram's are fairly docile most of the time, but they do some > > > chasing if > > > they have a territory they want to claim, but they don't > > > tend to chase > > > other fish much, mostly just other rams. I started with 3, > > > one died > > > right away to ich and I'm pretty sure the red tailed > > > catfish ate one, > > > and this last one was found unharmed looking but very dead > > > on the bottom > > > of the tank :( > > > I enjoy watching them because they like to flutter in place > > > when they > > > see something interesting in the tank. > > > > > > Amber > > > > > > Jpateson@aol. com <mailto:Jpateson% 40aol.com> > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > Amber, > > > > > > > > I'm thinking about getting some Rams, but I don't know > > > how they get along > > > > with other fish. The Kribs will "control" whatever > > > part of the tank the > > > > babies are in, other than that they are good fish for > > > a community tank.... > > > > > > > > Jim > > > > > > > > > > > > In a message dated 6/19/2009 11:56:53 A.M. Central > > > Daylight Time, > > > > amber@rose-fields. com <mailto:amber% 40rose-fields. com> > > > <mailto:amber% 40rose-fields. com> writes: > > > > > > > > Are they albino Kribs? hehe. > > > > And I have a fed ex account, I can ship it discounted > > > that way, that's > > > > how I get my "cool" fish now days ;) > > > > I prefer the rams myself (I think they're prettier), > > > how territorial do > > > > the Kribensis' get? > > > > I plan on picking up more rams when I can afford them > > > though. > > > > > > > > Amber > > > > > > > > Jim Pat. wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Amber, > > > > > > > > > > Want any Krib's? My male/female have been busy, > > > from the first bunch I > > > > > have ~20 the size of neons and the new bunch is > > > around 35. It's > > > > > interesting how they "seperate" the other fish > > > from their new > > > > > batch.....If it wasn't so expensive to get them > > > to Alaska I would send > > > > > you 10 or 15.... So far I haven't found a local > > > fish store that wants > > > > > them... > > > > > > > > > > JIm > > > > > > > > > > --- In _AquaticLife@ AquaticLife@ Aqu_ > > > > (mailto:AquaticLife @ yahoogroups. com > > <mailto:AquaticLife %40yahoogroups. com> > > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife %40yahoogroups. com>) > > > > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife mailto:AquaticLm ai>, > > > Amber Berglund <amber@...> > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > Found my last ram dead this evening, I'm > > > pretty sure it was the > > > > Angel's > > > > > > fault. They've gone into spawning again and > > > are nasty little > > > > buggers. I > > > > > > was messing with the Rena xp4 and the male > > > nipped me quite good, > > > > > shocked > > > > > > me because I wasn't looking and didn't > > > expect it, when I jerked my arm > > > > > > out of the tank I scared Spike (my severum) > > > and he ran into hiding, > > > > LOL. > > > > > > I urged the hubby to finish welding my stand > > > together so I can set up > > > > > > the 55 gallon for the Angel's, I already > > > have their cycled media > > > > in the > > > > > > Rena Xp 4 waiting to be transfered into the > > > other filter that came > > > > with > > > > > > the 55 gallon. Getting tired of them picking > > > on all of the other fish, > > > > > > I'm sure everyone will be glad when they go > > > ;) > > > > > > I think I know what I'm going to be ordering > > > next on my fish order > > > > > > (Rams, and I think I want to get some german > > > ones this time so I can > > > > > see > > > > > > what they really look like in person, all > > > the pictures seem to look so > > > > > > similar between the bolivian's and the > > > german blue rams). > > > > > > > > > > > > Amber > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ************ **Download the AOL Classifieds Toolbar for > > > local deals at > > > > your > > > > fingertips. > > > > > > (http://toolbar. aol.com/aolclass ifieds/download. html?ncid= > emlcntusdown0000 0004 > > <http://toolbar. aol.com/aolclass ifieds/download. html?ncid= > emlcntusdown0000 0004> > > > > > > > > > <http://toolbar. aol.com/aolclass ifieds/download. html?ncid= > emlcntusdown0000 0004 > > <http://toolbar. aol.com/aolclass ifieds/download. html?ncid= > emlcntusdown0000 0004>>) > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ------------ --------- --------- ------ > > > > > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when > > > replying, Thank You. > > > ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> > > > ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> > > > PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is > > > NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of > > > the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new > > > subject (was re: old subject)" <- > > > <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. > > > , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. > > > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. > > > > > > If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of > > > unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by > > > clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the home page. > > > > > > Or e-mail aquaticlife- digest@yahoogrou ps.com > > <mailto:aquaticlife -digest%40yahoog roups.com> > > > to receive the digest, which includes up to 25 posts at a > > > time in a single email > > > > > > Or email aquaticlife- nomail@yahoogrou ps.com > > <mailto:aquaticlife -nomail%40yahoog roups.com> > > > for the No E-Mail option where you will still be able to > > > read messages on the group and post replies. > > > > > > Or email aquaticlife- normal@yahoogrou ps.com > > <mailto:aquaticlife -normal%40yahoog roups.com> > > > to receive individual e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > > > > mailto:AquaticLife- fullfeatured@ yahoogroups. com > > <mailto:AquaticLife -fullfeatured% 40yahoogroups. com> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 41056	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 6/19/2009
Subject: Re: Ugh, now I no longer have any rams left :(

According to Mongabay yes they are compatible. http://fish.mongabay.com/species/Pelvicachromis_pulcher.html Hope that helps, Amber biG poppa wrote: > > > Amber > > Thank you I'm also interested in getting some kribs sense i set up my > new 55g tank will they mix with gouramis? > > --- On Fri, 6/19/09, Amber Berglund <amber@... > <mailto:amber%40rose-fields.com>> wrote: > > From: Amber Berglund <amber@... > <mailto:amber%40rose-fields.com>> > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: Ugh, now I no longer have any rams left :( > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Date: Friday, June 19, 2009, 8:44 PM > > I see this one, yes. Ram's are not too easy to find, there are a few > sellers on aquabid.com though if you are looking for them. > > Amber > > biG poppa wrote: > > > > > > are my replies goign throw? > > > > --- On Fri, 6/19/09, Amber Berglund <amber@rose-fields. com > > <mailto:amber% 40rose-fields. com>> wrote: > > > > From: Amber Berglund <amber@rose-fields. com > > <mailto:amber% 40rose-fields. com>> > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: Ugh, now I no longer have any rams > left :( > > To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com <mailto:AquaticLife > %40yahoogroups. com> > > Date: Friday, June 19, 2009, 8:31 PM > > > > I'm going to wait to purchase any Rams until after I move my 2 Angel's > > as I want to make sure they won't get bullied by my "angry little > > spawners" ;) > > I'm excited to see if my Angel's can manage not to eat all their babies > > when they are in their own tank. > > Which kind of rams did you purchase and do you have any pics of them > > anywhere yet? ;) hehe. > > I have heard a rumor somewhere that the german rams are a little more > > territorial than the bolivian rams, but I'm not exactly sure what kind I > > had before as my LFS only had them labled Rams, LOL, and when I asked > > she looked really unsure and sounded like she was guessing when she said > > she thought they were the bolivian rams. > > My last one was doing really good, the only thing that I've done is my > > usual tank maintenance and remove the red tailed catfish from the tank, > > oh and I unplugged the UV light figured it didn't need to be going > > anymore since my ich outbreak is long over in that tank (I forgot I had > > it running, LOL). I don't see how unplugging the light would affect the > > ram, nor a routine tank cleaning/filter cleaning. I haven't added any > > fish in months either. Nothing else is acting oddly unless you consider > > cowering on one side of the tank from the nasty Angel's as odd ;) (I > > don't consider it odd, I would be hiding from them too if I was in the > > tank, LOL). The Severum is the only one that doesn't cower from the > > Angel's and it's because he's bigger than they are, but that doesn't > > stop them from trying to chase him off ;). > > > > Amber > > > > bill 1433 wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > Hi Amber, > > > > > > As you may remember I have Rams, now only 2 in a 20 gallon long. > > > Sometime ago I bought 3 green Cory's for the tank and they died. All > > > one at a time and with no marks or weird things going on, just died. > > > Thinking they were Wal-Mart fish, whose quality I thought > > > questionable, I just bought 4 more Cory's two weeks ago and they are > > > all dead! > > > > > > Now comes the "why" or how. Easy, the other night watching the fish > > > closely, I noticed the larger of the rams beating the devil out of the > > > last of the latest Cory purchase. Since the fish had no other damage > > > I am convinced that the Rams bullied them to the point of not eating > > > and beat up on them every time they tried. > > > > > > New advise on Rams? Buy all you want, but buy them all at the same > > > time and put all in the tank together with all their tank mates all at > > > once. Make no attempt to add any fish in their tank afterward. When > > > the Rams were in a community tank with lots of other fish, no > problems. > > > When I gave them their own tank first and then tried adding fish > > > problems. Just food for thought. If the bio-load on the tank is too > > > great, use Dr. Tim's. > > > > > > ol' bill------not grumpy BUT I have been called cranky! > > > > > > --- On Fri, 6/19/09, Amber Berglund <amber@rose- fields. com > > > <mailto:amber% 40rose-fields. com>> wrote: > > > > > > > From: Amber Berglund <amber@rose- fields. com > > > <mailto:amber% 40rose-fields. com>> > > > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: Ugh, now I no longer have any rams > > > left :( > > > > To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com <mailto:AquaticLife > > %40yahoogroups. com> > > > > Date: Friday, June 19, 2009, 5:21 PM > > > > If they aren't as bad as Angel's then > > > > I may consider them ;) > > > > Ram's are fairly docile most of the time, but they do some > > > > chasing if > > > > they have a territory they want to claim, but they don't > > > > tend to chase > > > > other fish much, mostly just other rams. I started with 3, > > > > one died > > > > right away to ich and I'm pretty sure the red tailed > > > > catfish ate one, > > > > and this last one was found unharmed looking but very dead > > > > on the bottom > > > > of the tank :( > > > > I enjoy watching them because they like to flutter in place > > > > when they > > > > see something interesting in the tank. > > > > > > > > Amber > > > > > > > > Jpateson@aol. com <mailto:Jpateson% 40aol.com> > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Amber, > > > > > > > > > > I'm thinking about getting some Rams, but I don't know > > > > how they get along > > > > > with other fish. The Kribs will "control" whatever > > > > part of the tank the > > > > > babies are in, other than that they are good fish for > > > > a community tank.... > > > > > > > > > > Jim > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > In a message dated 6/19/2009 11:56:53 A.M. Central > > > > Daylight Time, > > > > > amber@rose-fields. com <mailto:amber% 40rose-fields. com> > > > > <mailto:amber% 40rose-fields. com> writes: > > > > > > > > > > Are they albino Kribs? hehe. > > > > > And I have a fed ex account, I can ship it discounted > > > > that way, that's > > > > > how I get my "cool" fish now days ;) > > > > > I prefer the rams myself (I think they're prettier), > > > > how territorial do > > > > > the Kribensis' get? > > > > > I plan on picking up more rams when I can afford them > > > > though. > > > > > > > > > > Amber > > > > > > > > > > Jim Pat. wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Amber, > > > > > > > > > > > > Want any Krib's? My male/female have been busy, > > > > from the first bunch I > > > > > > have ~20 the size of neons and the new bunch is > > > > around 35. It's > > > > > > interesting how they "seperate" the other fish > > > > from their new > > > > > > batch.....If it wasn't so expensive to get them > > > > to Alaska I would send > > > > > > you 10 or 15.... So far I haven't found a local > > > > fish store that wants > > > > > > them... > > > > > > > > > > > > JIm > > > > > > > > > > > > --- In _AquaticLife@ AquaticLife@ Aqu_ > > > > > (mailto:AquaticLife @ yahoogroups. com > > > <mailto:AquaticLife %40yahoogroups. com> > > > > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife %40yahoogroups. com>) > > > > > > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife mailto:AquaticLm ai>, > > > > Amber Berglund <amber@...> > > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Found my last ram dead this evening, I'm > > > > pretty sure it was the > > > > > Angel's > > > > > > > fault. They've gone into spawning again and > > > > are nasty little > > > > > buggers. I > > > > > > > was messing with the Rena xp4 and the male > > > > nipped me quite good, > > > > > > shocked > > > > > > > me because I wasn't looking and didn't > > > > expect it, when I jerked my arm > > > > > > > out of the tank I scared Spike (my severum) > > > > and he ran into hiding, > > > > > LOL. > > > > > > > I urged the hubby to finish welding my stand > > > > together so I can set up > > > > > > > the 55 gallon for the Angel's, I already > > > > have their cycled media > > > > > in the > > > > > > > Rena Xp 4 waiting to be transfered into the > > > > other filter that came > > > > > with > > > > > > > the 55 gallon. Getting tired of them picking > > > > on all of the other fish, > > > > > > > I'm sure everyone will be glad when they go > > > > ;) > > > > > > > I think I know what I'm going to be ordering > > > > next on my fish order > > > > > > > (Rams, and I think I want to get some german > > > > ones this time so I can > > > > > > see > > > > > > > what they really look like in person, all > > > > the pictures seem to look so > > > > > > > similar between the bolivian's and the > > > > german blue rams). > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Amber > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ************ **Download the AOL Classifieds Toolbar for > > > > local deals at > > > > > your > > > > > fingertips. > > > > > > > > (http://toolbar. aol.com/aolclass ifieds/download. html?ncid= > > emlcntusdown0000 0004 > > > <http://toolbar. aol.com/aolclass ifieds/download. html?ncid= > > emlcntusdown0000 0004> > > > > > > > > > > > > <http://toolbar. aol.com/aolclass ifieds/download. html?ncid= > > emlcntusdown0000 0004 > > > <http://toolbar. aol.com/aolclass ifieds/download. html?ncid= > > emlcntusdown0000 0004>>) > > > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ------------ --------- --------- ------ > > > > > > > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when > > > > replying, Thank You. > > > > ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> > > > > ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> > > > > PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is > > > > NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of > > > > the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new > > > > subject (was re: old subject)" <- > > > > <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. > > > > , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. > > > > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. > > > > > > > > If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of > > > > unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by > > > > clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the home page. > > > > > > > > Or e-mail aquaticlife- digest@yahoogrou ps.com > > > <mailto:aquaticlife -digest%40yahoog roups.com> > > > > to receive the digest, which includes up to 25 posts at a > > > > time in a single email > > > > > > > > Or email aquaticlife- nomail@yahoogrou ps.com > > > <mailto:aquaticlife -nomail%40yahoog roups.com> > > > > for the No E-Mail option where you will still be able to > > > > read messages on the group and post replies. > > > > > > > > Or email aquaticlife- normal@yahoogrou ps.com > > > <mailto:aquaticlife -normal%40yahoog roups.com> > > > > to receive individual e-mails.Yahoo! 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Group: AquaticLife	Message: 41057	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 6/19/2009
Subject: Re: Ugh, now I no longer have any rams left :(

Fun isn't the word for it, they'd love my pH levels and all the plants, but I worry that they would dig too much into the gravel and send up soil from the walstad tank. I would probably have to keep them in a different tank than the 125 gallon ;) Amber Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > > > Jim, > > You may want to list in your local Craigslist FREE pets section. Also > check > with your local FreeCycle to see if they allow giving away live things. > Some don't. I'm not sure you'll have much luck selling Kribs, but it > doesn't hurt to try. > > They are almost as bad as livebearers and I've read reports from some fish > keepers that their Kribs started mating while still in the bag coming home > from the fish store. ;-) > > It seems that at least one of your LFS (local fish stores) would be > willing > to take them from you and give you a small amount of store credit for > them... unless they all already have tank loads of Kribs already. > > 10 or 15 would sure have fun in Amber's 125G tank though! ;-) > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right > side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) > > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On > Behalf Of Jim Pat. > Sent: Friday, June 19, 2009 11:10 AM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Ugh, now I no longer have any rams left :( > > Amber, > > Want any Krib's? My male/female have been busy, from the first bunch I > have > ~20 the size of neons and the new bunch is around 35. It's interesting how > they "seperate" the other fish from their new batch.....If it wasn't so > expensive to get them to Alaska I would send you 10 or 15.... So far I > haven't found a local fish store that wants them... > > JIm > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>, Amber Berglund <amber@...> wrote: > > > > Found my last ram dead this evening, I'm pretty sure it was the > > Angel's fault. They've gone into spawning again and are nasty little > > buggers. I was messing with the Rena xp4 and the male nipped me quite > > good, shocked me because I wasn't looking and didn't expect it, when I > > jerked my arm out of the tank I scared Spike (my severum) and he ran > into > hiding, LOL. > > I urged the hubby to finish welding my stand together so I can set up > > the 55 gallon for the Angel's, I already have their cycled media in > > the Rena Xp 4 waiting to be transfered into the other filter that came > > with the 55 gallon. Getting tired of them picking on all of the other > > fish, I'm sure everyone will be glad when they go ;) I think I know > > what I'm going to be ordering next on my fish order (Rams, and I think > > I want to get some german ones this time so I can see what they really > > look like in person, all the pictures seem to look so similar between > > the bolivian's and the german blue rams). > > > > Amber > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 41058	From: biG poppa	Date: 6/19/2009
Subject: Re: Ugh, now I no longer have any rams left :(

thanQ amber if the number of krips baby get to high ..please i will love to get some --- On Fri, 6/19/09, Amber Berglund <amber@...> wrote: From: Amber Berglund <amber@...> Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: Ugh, now I no longer have any rams left :( To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Date: Friday, June 19, 2009, 9:01 PM According to Mongabay yes they are compatible. http://fish. mongabay. com/species/ Pelvicachromis_ pulcher.html Hope that helps, Amber biG poppa wrote: > > > Amber > > Thank you I'm also interested in getting some kribs sense i set up my > new 55g tank will they mix with gouramis? > > --- On Fri, 6/19/09, Amber Berglund <amber@rose-fields. com > <mailto:amber% 40rose-fields. com>> wrote: > > From: Amber Berglund <amber@rose-fields. com > <mailto:amber% 40rose-fields. com>> > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: Ugh, now I no longer have any rams left :( > To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com <mailto:AquaticLife %40yahoogroups. com> > Date: Friday, June 19, 2009, 8:44 PM > > I see this one, yes. Ram's are not too easy to find, there are a few > sellers on aquabid.com though if you are looking for them. > > Amber > > biG poppa wrote: > > > > > > are my replies goign throw? > > > > --- On Fri, 6/19/09, Amber Berglund <amber@rose- fields. com > > <mailto:amber% 40rose-fields. com>> wrote: > > > > From: Amber Berglund <amber@rose- fields. com > > <mailto:amber% 40rose-fields. com>> > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: Ugh, now I no longer have any rams > left :( > > To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com <mailto:AquaticLife > %40yahoogroups. com> > > Date: Friday, June 19, 2009, 8:31 PM > > > > I'm going to wait to purchase any Rams until after I move my 2 Angel's > > as I want to make sure they won't get bullied by my "angry little > > spawners" ;) > > I'm excited to see if my Angel's can manage not to eat all their babies > > when they are in their own tank. > > Which kind of rams did you purchase and do you have any pics of them > > anywhere yet? ;) hehe. > > I have heard a rumor somewhere that the german rams are a little more > > territorial than the bolivian rams, but I'm not exactly sure what kind I > > had before as my LFS only had them labled Rams, LOL, and when I asked > > she looked really unsure and sounded like she was guessing when she said > > she thought they were the bolivian rams. > > My last one was doing really good, the only thing that I've done is my > > usual tank maintenance and remove the red tailed catfish from the tank, > > oh and I unplugged the UV light figured it didn't need to be going > > anymore since my ich outbreak is long over in that tank (I forgot I had > > it running, LOL). I don't see how unplugging the light would affect the > > ram, nor a routine tank cleaning/filter cleaning. I haven't added any > > fish in months either. Nothing else is acting oddly unless you consider > > cowering on one side of the tank from the nasty Angel's as odd ;) (I > > don't consider it odd, I would be hiding from them too if I was in the > > tank, LOL). The Severum is the only one that doesn't cower from the > > Angel's and it's because he's bigger than they are, but that doesn't > > stop them from trying to chase him off ;). > > > > Amber > > > > bill 1433 wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > Hi Amber, > > > > > > As you may remember I have Rams, now only 2 in a 20 gallon long. > > > Sometime ago I bought 3 green Cory's for the tank and they died. All > > > one at a time and with no marks or weird things going on, just died. > > > Thinking they were Wal-Mart fish, whose quality I thought > > > questionable, I just bought 4 more Cory's two weeks ago and they are > > > all dead! > > > > > > Now comes the "why" or how. Easy, the other night watching the fish > > > closely, I noticed the larger of the rams beating the devil out of the > > > last of the latest Cory purchase. Since the fish had no other damage > > > I am convinced that the Rams bullied them to the point of not eating > > > and beat up on them every time they tried. > > > > > > New advise on Rams? Buy all you want, but buy them all at the same > > > time and put all in the tank together with all their tank mates all at > > > once. Make no attempt to add any fish in their tank afterward. When > > > the Rams were in a community tank with lots of other fish, no > problems. > > > When I gave them their own tank first and then tried adding fish > > > problems. Just food for thought. If the bio-load on the tank is too > > > great, use Dr. Tim's. > > > > > > ol' bill------not grumpy BUT I have been called cranky! > > > > > > --- On Fri, 6/19/09, Amber Berglund <amber@rose- fields. com > > > <mailto:amber% 40rose-fields. com>> wrote: > > > > > > > From: Amber Berglund <amber@rose- fields. com > > > <mailto:amber% 40rose-fields. com>> > > > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: Ugh, now I no longer have any rams > > > left :( > > > > To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com <mailto:AquaticLife > > %40yahoogroups. com> > > > > Date: Friday, June 19, 2009, 5:21 PM > > > > If they aren't as bad as Angel's then > > > > I may consider them ;) > > > > Ram's are fairly docile most of the time, but they do some > > > > chasing if > > > > they have a territory they want to claim, but they don't > > > > tend to chase > > > > other fish much, mostly just other rams. I started with 3, > > > > one died > > > > right away to ich and I'm pretty sure the red tailed > > > > catfish ate one, > > > > and this last one was found unharmed looking but very dead > > > > on the bottom > > > > of the tank :( > > > > I enjoy watching them because they like to flutter in place > > > > when they > > > > see something interesting in the tank. > > > > > > > > Amber > > > > > > > > Jpateson@aol. com <mailto:Jpateson% 40aol.com> > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Amber, > > > > > > > > > > I'm thinking about getting some Rams, but I don't know > > > > how they get along > > > > > with other fish. The Kribs will "control" whatever > > > > part of the tank the > > > > > babies are in, other than that they are good fish for > > > > a community tank.... > > > > > > > > > > Jim > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > In a message dated 6/19/2009 11:56:53 A.M. Central > > > > Daylight Time, > > > > > amber@rose-fields. com <mailto:amber% 40rose-fields. com> > > > > <mailto:amber% 40rose-fields. com> writes: > > > > > > > > > > Are they albino Kribs? hehe. > > > > > And I have a fed ex account, I can ship it discounted > > > > that way, that's > > > > > how I get my "cool" fish now days ;) > > > > > I prefer the rams myself (I think they're prettier), > > > > how territorial do > > > > > the Kribensis' get? > > > > > I plan on picking up more rams when I can afford them > > > > though. > > > > > > > > > > Amber > > > > > > > > > > Jim Pat. wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Amber, > > > > > > > > > > > > Want any Krib's? My male/female have been busy, > > > > from the first bunch I > > > > > > have ~20 the size of neons and the new bunch is > > > > around 35. It's > > > > > > interesting how they "seperate" the other fish > > > > from their new > > > > > > batch.....If it wasn't so expensive to get them > > > > to Alaska I would send > > > > > > you 10 or 15.... So far I haven't found a local > > > > fish store that wants > > > > > > them... > > > > > > > > > > > > JIm > > > > > > > > > > > > --- In _AquaticLife@ AquaticLife@ Aqu_ > > > > > (mailto:AquaticLife @ yahoogroups. com > > > <mailto:AquaticLife %40yahoogroups. com> > > > > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife %40yahoogroups. com>) > > > > > > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife mailto:AquaticLm ai>, > > > > Amber Berglund <amber@...> > > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Found my last ram dead this evening, I'm > > > > pretty sure it was the > > > > > Angel's > > > > > > > fault. They've gone into spawning again and > > > > are nasty little > > > > > buggers. I > > > > > > > was messing with the Rena xp4 and the male > > > > nipped me quite good, > > > > > > shocked > > > > > > > me because I wasn't looking and didn't > > > > expect it, when I jerked my arm > > > > > > > out of the tank I scared Spike (my severum) > > > > and he ran into hiding, > > > > > LOL. > > > > > > > I urged the hubby to finish welding my stand > > > > together so I can set up > > > > > > > the 55 gallon for the Angel's, I already > > > > have their cycled media > > > > > in the > > > > > > > Rena Xp 4 waiting to be transfered into the > > > > other filter that came > > > > > with > > > > > > > the 55 gallon. Getting tired of them picking > > > > on all of the other fish, > > > > > > > I'm sure everyone will be glad when they go > > > > ;) > > > > > > > I think I know what I'm going to be ordering > > > > next on my fish order > > > > > > > (Rams, and I think I want to get some german > > > > ones this time so I can > > > > > > see > > > > > > > what they really look like in person, all > > > > the pictures seem to look so > > > > > > > similar between the bolivian's and the > > > > german blue rams). > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Amber > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ************ **Download the AOL Classifieds Toolbar for > > > > local deals at > > > > > your > > > > > fingertips. > > > > > > > > (http://toolbar. aol.com/aolclass ifieds/download. html?ncid= > > emlcntusdown0000 0004 > > > <http://toolbar. aol.com/aolclass ifieds/download. html?ncid= > > emlcntusdown0000 0004> > > > > > > > > > > > > <http://toolbar. aol.com/aolclass ifieds/download. html?ncid= > > emlcntusdown0000 0004 > > > <http://toolbar. aol.com/aolclass ifieds/download. html?ncid= > > emlcntusdown0000 0004>>) > > > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ------------ --------- --------- ------ > > > > > > > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when > > > > replying, Thank You. > > > > ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> > > > > ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> > > > > PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is > > > > NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of > > > > the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new > > > > subject (was re: old subject)" <- > > > > <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. > > > > , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. > > > > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. > > > > > > > > If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of > > > > unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by > > > > clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the home page. > > > > > > > > Or e-mail aquaticlife- digest@yahoogrou ps.com > > > <mailto:aquaticlife -digest%40yahoog roups.com> > > > > to receive the digest, which includes up to 25 posts at a > > > > time in a single email > > > > > > > > Or email aquaticlife- nomail@yahoogrou ps.com > > > <mailto:aquaticlife -nomail%40yahoog roups.com> > > > > for the No E-Mail option where you will still be able to > > > > read messages on the group and post replies. > > > > > > > > Or email aquaticlife- normal@yahoogrou ps.com > > > <mailto:aquaticlife -normal%40yahoog roups.com> > > > > to receive individual e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > > > > > > > mailto:AquaticLife- fullfeatured@ yahoogroups. com > > > <mailto:AquaticLife -fullfeatured% 40yahoogroups. com> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 41059	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 6/19/2009
Subject: Re: New fish pond...need advice

For even a single Koi and probably up to a few of them, you should at least have a 2,000G pond... as long as you have plans to make it MUCH larger in the coming years, if you have more than 3-4 Koi. Koi grow to 30"+ and are fast swimmers so they really need a pond at least 15' to 20' long and at least 6' to 9' wide to give them some swimming room as they grow into young adults. The pond should also be at least 3' to 4' deep for the majority of the pond. Using these dimensions, you are looking at a pond volume of 2,019 Gallons (15' x 6' x 3' deep) to 5,385 Gallons (20' x 9' x 4' deep), with the larger pond being preferred as a minimum size for Koi and then you could around 10+ Koi. With the 2,000G pond, you would be limited to 3-4 Koi as full grown adults. When starting off with smaller Koi, allow 300G per Koi to give them growing space (and the water volume needed to dilute their hormones so they will not get stunted) and since Koi will grow 90% of their growth in the first 10 years and 50% in the first 3-4 years, this is why they need 300G to start with and 500G+ as adults (as long as there is still good filtration and proper pond/filter maintenance). I do not know of any pre-formed ponds with these kinds of dimensions (although they may exist). Most of the ones I've seen are in the 100G to 300G range. Maybe a swimming pool company would have an oval or kidney shaped pre-formed pool that could be put in and used as a preformed pond but I think the cost goes way up over using a flexible liner in a hole. Many folks, after digging their hole will use carpet remnants as padding between the liner and the ground to protect the liner from rocks, etc. Any carpet can be used but I really liked using some of that green/gold or orange/gold shag carpeting from the 70's! ;-) If you go to my blog, on the right side, you'll see links/labels to all of the blogs I've written. Click on the Ponds label and I have links to several FREE downloadable e-Books (or some that are read as web pages online) on building your own pond. They will give you a LOT more information and ideas. Of course, concerning the number of "N's" in your name, being from N'Awlins, your name could easily be changed to SHANNNNONNNNNNNN and have 12 "N's" (as in Stellllaaaaaa from "A Streetcar Named Desire" http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S1A0p0F_iH8) The "Stella" Contest held yearly in the French Quarter is something every local and tourist should see. http://blog.nola.com/twobitbeat/2008/03/where_else_can_you_scream_and.html or http://blog.nola.com/hittinthetown/2009/03/ani_defranco_the_houston_balle.ht ml OK.. I've earned my monthly tourism promotion points for N'Awlins. :-P Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of sgriscom_2 Sent: Friday, June 19, 2009 3:16 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: New fish pond...need advice I had originally thought about the container garden but so far I haven't found anything I like. My husband is insistant on koi but I would be okay with the commom, comet, and/or shubunkin type goldfish. Of course I wouldn't use koi in the container garden. As for size I would like to get at least three fish in it so whatever size would accomidate them. As for flexible or preformed, I haven't decided. Preformed seems easier but has set shapes. Question, is sand really necessary since I have clay. I also have conserns about what plants would do well around the outside of the pond since I have clay. I have gotten a lot of info but still need to make most of the decisions. Thanks, Shannon(That's three Ns total).

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 41060	From: Jpateson@aol.com	Date: 6/19/2009
Subject: Re: Ugh, now I no longer have any rams left :(

Amber, That is why I enjoy the Kribs', they flutter around and are just interesting to watch.. Jim In a message dated 6/19/2009 4:23:41 P.M. Central Daylight Time, amber@... writes: If they aren't as bad as Angel's then I may consider them ;) Ram's are fairly docile most of the time, but they do some chasing if they have a territory they want to claim, but they don't tend to chase other fish much, mostly just other rams. I started with 3, one died right away to ich and I'm pretty sure the red tailed catfish ate one, and this last one was found unharmed looking but very dead on the bottom of the tank :( I enjoy watching them because they like to flutter in place when they see something interesting in the tank. Amber _Jpateson@..._ (mailto:Jpateson@...) wrote: > > > Amber, > > I'm thinking about getting some Rams, but I don't know how they get along > with other fish. The Kribs will "control" whatever part of the tank the > babies are in, other than that they are good fish for a community tank.... > > Jim > > > In a message dated 6/19/2009 11:56:53 A.M. Central Daylight Time, > _amber@..._ (mailto:amber@...) <mailto:amber%mailto:amber%mai> writes: > > Are they albino Kribs? hehe. > And I have a fed ex account, I can ship it discounted that way, that's > how I get my "cool" fish now days ;) > I prefer the rams myself (I think they're prettier), how territorial do > the Kribensis' get? > I plan on picking up more rams when I can afford them though. > > Amber > > Jim Pat. wrote: > > > > > > Amber, > > > > Want any Krib's? My male/female have been busy, from the first bunch I > > have ~20 the size of neons and the new bunch is around 35. It's > > interesting how they "seperate" the other fish from their new > > batch.....If it wasn't so expensive to get them to Alaska I would send > > you 10 or 15.... So far I haven't found a local fish store that wants > > them... > > > > JIm > > > > --- In _AquaticLife@ --- In _Aqu --- > (mailto:_AquaticLife@AquaticLife@Aqu_ (mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com) > <mailto:AquaticLifemailto:AquaticLmai>) > > > <mailto:AquaticLifemailto:AquaticLima>, Amber Berglund <amber@...> > wrote: > > > > > > Found my last ram dead this evening, I'm pretty sure it was the > Angel's > > > fault. They've gone into spawning again and are nasty little > buggers. I > > > was messing with the Rena xp4 and the male nipped me quite good, > > shocked > > > me because I wasn't looking and didn't expect it, when I jerked my arm > > > out of the tank I scared Spike (my severum) and he ran into hiding, > LOL. > > > I urged the hubby to finish welding my stand together so I can set up > > > the 55 gallon for the Angel's, I already have their cycled media > in the > > > Rena Xp 4 waiting to be transfered into the other filter that came > with > > > the 55 gallon. Getting tired of them picking on all of the other fish, > > > I'm sure everyone will be glad when they go ;) > > > I think I know what I'm going to be ordering next on my fish order > > > (Rams, and I think I want to get some german ones this time so I can > > see > > > what they really look like in person, all the pictures seem to look so > > > similar between the bolivian's and the german blue rams). > > > > > > Amber > > > > > > > > > ************ ************<WBR>**Download the AOL Classifieds Toolbar f > your > fingertips. > (_http://toolbar.http://toolbar.http://toolbar.http://toohttp://toolbar.http_ (http://toolbar.aol.com/aolclassifieds/download.html?ncid=emlcntusdown00000004) > <_http://toolbar.http://toolbar.http://toolbar.http://toohttp://toolbar.http_ (http://toolbar.aol.com/aolclassifieds/download.html?ncid=emlcntusdown00000004) >) > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > **************Download the AOL Classifieds Toolbar for local deals at your fingertips. (http://toolbar.aol.com/aolclassifieds/download.html?ncid=emlcntusdown00000004) [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 41061	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 6/19/2009
Subject: Re: Sexing AngelFish?

Amber, You can't fool us. Alaska = Land of the Midnight Sun. \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Amber Berglund Sent: Friday, June 19, 2009 11:15 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: Sexing AngelFish? Ray and Bill, I was not as angry in my post as you guys seem to think I was, I was only pointing out that Ray comes across as mean at times, even if he doesn't mean to be. I thought I also stated somewhere in my post to James that I have never had to put tetras in my tank to get my Angelfish to breed so it was not my experience that it was needed to be done, it was merely a suggestion is all. I really don't mind being corrected, I'd rather have the right information than the wrong information and pass it on. And what sun Bill? I live in Alaska ;) LOL Amber bill 1433 wrote: > > > > Hi Amber, > > You must remember, nearly all comments made here including Ray's, come > from the author's own personal experience. They do and say the best > that they can BUT they are YOUR fish. > > I say that to you because as good as their advise is THEY have not > seen the fish personally. They are basing their information on a > "here's what happened to me" scenario. > What Ray and others tell you, as I do some time, is exactly what > happened to them. > > Angel fish are not much different than Discus or any other Cichlid. > BUT, each set of prospective pairs does have their own nuance. > Sometime with Cichlids all that is needed is regular or a bit larger > than normal, water change. Sometimes just the simple matter of > turning the heat up a degree or two. All fish ARE different. Their > are some simple guide lines and do's and don'ts but that is all Ray is > trying to point out. He has, and to the best of my knowledge, still > is working with and breeding Angel Fish. He may not be the "World's > Leading Authority" but he is simply trying to help you over-come > difficulties that are easily managed and prevent any damage to the fish. > > I'm afraid this is the one great draw backs to the Internet. There is > a great deal of information on it but it's accuracy in many cases is > changeling at best. > > Keep some sun on your face, > > Bill > > --- On Thu, 6/18/09, Amber Berglund <amber@... > <mailto:amber%40rose-fields.com>> wrote: > > > From: Amber Berglund <amber@... > <mailto:amber%40rose-fields.com>> > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: Sexing AngelFish? > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > Date: Thursday, June 18, 2009, 9:45 PM > > I don't hold onto all the links I > > read like Lenny does, so I have no > > idea what breeder site on Angel's I read that on. > > I don't mind being corrected Ray, but sometimes I wish you > > weren't quite > > so mean about it sometimes, I didn't see you offering him > > any help on > > getting his Angel's to breed and I was doing my best with > > what info I > > have read on them, and since I have no problems getting > > mine to spawn I > > was trying to pass on tips that I had read elsewhere. > > If I was writing a paper on breeding Angel's then I could > > understand > > asking for all of my sources and page info but I'm just > > trying to help > > someone out with the info that I had found when I was > > researching. Guess > > I will just stick to the info that I personally have > > experienced since I > > seem to be wrong so often when I try to pass on info that > > I've read. > > > > Amber > > > > Raymond Wetzel wrote: > > > > > > > > > NO, Not So! I don't know where you read that, but I > > wonder if perhaps > > > you misread it, If not, whoever wrote that is wrong, > > other fish in the > > > tank WILL NOT induce any Angelfish to spawn. Could you > > please tell me > > > where you read this? I would tend to doubt that it > > woyuld be in any > > > well-penned book, as this kind of erroneous info has a > > way of getting > > > itself known as such as it spreads throughout the > > hobby. I did notice > > > that you advised James of this; just another case of > > you can't believe > > > all you read. If it was on a web site, I can > > understand that -- no one > > > should put complete faith in everything they read up > > there, and pass > > > it along, without knowing if it's true. > > > > > > Tetras, or any other small fish, when put with a > > breeding pair of any > > > species of substrate-sawning Cichlids are intended to > > draw the > > > attention of either one of the more aggressive > > partners of the pair > > > away from the other partner so that the least > > aggressive partner does > > > not take the full aggression of the more overbearing > > one. > > > > > > They (these "dither fish") act to initiate the > > territorial behavior of > > > both partners of the breesding pair so that they act > > in symphony with > > > each other towards one goal -- to keep the intruders > > out of the > > > breeding area. In this way, attention is drawn to > > these dither fish, > > > rather than each other. The pair is more apt to act in > > harmony rather > > > than one beating up on the other. This methods of > > using dither fish is > > > usually reserved for much more aggressive Cichlids. > > Most Angelfish > > > pairs do not need dither fish with them, nor will > > these dither fish > > > induce their spawning. They will spawn when they want > > to spawn. Most > > > good young pairs will spawn every eight days once they > > start spawning, > > > when allowed (when you pull the slate, to set their > > breeding cycle > > > going again). They will taper off after about 2 1/2 > > years of age (they > > > will start spawning between 7 and 8 months, usually > > closer to 9 > > > months). Ray > > > > > > ---In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>, Amber > > Berglund <amber@...> wrote: > > > > > > > > I've read from some breeders that some Angelfish > > need activity in the > > > > tank from other fish to help induce breeding > > habits, but mine don't > > > seem > > > > to have any problem with that so far, will have > > to see how they act > > > alone. > > > > > > > > Amber > > > > > > > > bill 1433 wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Amber, > > > > > > > > > > If you hit those Angels at a wrong time the > > life-expediency of > > > > > those Tetra's will be about 5 minutes! Once > > you give the fish their > > > > > own tank, best leave it that way and save on > > your tetra pennies! > > > > > > > > > > Bill > > > > > > > > > > --- On Thu, 6/18/09, Amber Berglund > > <amber@... > > > > > <mailto:amber%40rose-fields.com>> > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > From: Amber Berglund <amber@... > > > > > <mailto:amber%40rose-fields.com>> > > > > > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: Sexing > > AngelFish? > > > > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > Date: Thursday, June 18, 2009, 5:09 PM > > > > > > Shipping freshwater fish tends to be > > > > > > less stressful on the fish than > > > > > > saltwater from what I have heard > > (rumors), but I don't have > > > > > > saltwater > > > > > > tanks either, so I'm not sure > > personally. > > > > > > Mine seem to go into their spawning > > behavior about once a > > > > > > month or so. I > > > > > > leave the eggs in the tank and when I > > move my 2 angel's > > > > > > over to their > > > > > > own 55 gallon I will let them raise > > them by themselves. > > > > > > Some breeders also put in faster > > swimming tetras to help > > > > > > induce breeding > > > > > > too, you may have a mated pair and not > > know it as they > > > > > > haven't felt the > > > > > > desire to breed just yet. Have you ever > > had any middle > > > > > > swimming fast > > > > > > fish such as tetra's in the tank with > > your Angel's? > > > > > > Silver dollars are a popular fish to > > put in with Angel's, > > > > > > but they get > > > > > > big (bigger than the Angel's I think), > > I have never had any > > > > > > myself. But > > > > > > my LFS has some in stock, LOL. > > > > > > > > > > > > Amber > > > > > > > > > > > > nicurns@... > > <mailto:nicurns%40bellsouth.net> > > > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Amber, Thanks for replying. I > > don't see any aggressive > > > > > > behavior within > > > > > > > the tank except between the two > > angels at times. It > > > > > > almost appears as > > > > > > > though they are playing!!!LOL > > > > > > > The only other fish in that tank > > are 2 cory's and a > > > > > > medium sized > > > > > > > Pleco. The angels stay to > > themselves as do the cory's > > > > > > and I rarely see > > > > > > > the Pleco except an occasional > > darting whenever > > > > > > entering the room. > > > > > > > Regarding your angels.... Once > > they began spawning, > > > > > > how often did this > > > > > > > re-occur? Do you allow them to > > care for the babies or > > > > > > do you remove > > > > > > > them to a seperate tank? > > > > > > > I am planning on getting another > > larger angel or two, > > > > > > to go into this > > > > > > > tank but just having issues > > finding larger ones in my > > > > > > area. I have > > > > > > > purchased marine fish over the web > > in the past, but > > > > > > have not done so > > > > > > > with freshwater species yet. Maybe > > I'll start looking > > > > > > into this over > > > > > > > the next few weeks. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Thanks, > > > > > > > James S. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>, Amber > > > > > > Berglund <amber@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Angel's are not able to be > > sexed unless they are > > > > > > actively laying eggs > > > > > > > > (spawning). Their sexual > > organs are inside > > > > > > obviously ;) LOL. > > > > > > > > I have a mated pair of > > angel's and I just > > > > > > happened to get lucky that > > > > > > > > way, I started out with 2 and > > one died, so I > > > > > > replaced it with another > > > > > > > > and that 2nd one turned out > > to be female and my > > > > > > first was a male. > > > > > > > > Most people get groups of > > angel's and wait until > > > > > > they pair up to find a > > > > > > > > pair to mate. > > > > > > > > Are your angel's showing any > > sign of mating > > > > > > behavior at all? When mine > > > > > > > > get ready to lay eggs they > > will chase all the > > > > > > other fish to the other > > > > > > > > side of the tank and start > > cleaning a spot to lay > > > > > > their eggs on (while > > > > > > > > the other one guards for > > intruders the female > > > > > > will start to lay the > > > > > > > > eggs, then they take turns > > guarding while the > > > > > > male fertilizes the > > > > > > > eggs). > > > > > > > > If you haven't seen too much > > aggression towards > > > > > > your other fish and the > > > > > > > > other 2 teaming up together > > and chasing the other > > > > > > fish away then I'd > > > > > > > > have to guess you have 2 of > > the same sex. > > > > > > > > It may be hard to introduce > > smaller angel's at > > > > > > this point in time as > > > > > > > the > > > > > > > > bigger ones will pick on the > > smaller ones. > > > > > > > > I suppose you could slowly > > try introducing some > > > > > > new angel's with a tank > > > > > > > > divider and see how > > aggressive the big ones are > > > > > > with the divider in. If > > > > > > > > they are really aggressive > > and attack at the > > > > > > divider then you may have > > > > > > > > to wait until the smaller > > angel's get closer in > > > > > > size to the big ones, > > > > > > > > you can speed up that process > > (a little) by > > > > > > frequent water changes and > > > > > > > > feeding the young Angel's > > really well, just make > > > > > > sure to keep the water > > > > > > > > changes going (don't go > > overboard on them, once a > > > > > > day should me more > > > > > > > > than plenty if you're doing > > 25% changes), this > > > > > > helps remove the > > > > > > > hormones > > > > > > > > from the water so the fish > > will grow a little > > > > > > faster. Unless you can > > > > > > > > talk to the breeder some how > > and see if they > > > > > > might be willing to trade > > > > > > > > you a mated pair ;) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Amber > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > nicurns@ wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Hello all. My name is > > James and I live in > > > > > > UpState South Carolina. I > > > > > > > > > have been keeping fish > > for more years than I > > > > > > would like to admit, and > > > > > > > > > every 5 years or so I > > mix everything up and > > > > > > change what I am keeping. > > > > > > > > > Currently we have a > > 1200-1500 gal pond that > > > > > > I built, and rebuilt, and > > > > > > > > > of course rebuilt again. > > I am happy with my > > > > > > final result for now, but > > > > > > > > > do keep it in the back > > of my head that > > > > > > Bigger is Better, so who > > > > > > > knows??? > > > > > > > > > We have goldfish up to > > 13" long with their > > > > > > offspring that have not > > > > > > > > > been taken by the Heron > > during the winter. I > > > > > > also have 2 medium size > > > > > > > > > butterfly Koi and over > > abundance of plants. > > > > > > > > > Indoors, we have a 58gal > > FW tank with a > > > > > > 30gal sum-filter (making > > > > > > > > > between 80 and 90 gal's > > give or take),and 2 > > > > > > external filters as well > > > > > > > > > housing 2 large Angels, > > 2 cory's, and a > > > > > > pleco. This tank was a Reef > > > > > > > > > tank for many years, but > > I am over all that > > > > > > work!!!!!! We also have a > > > > > > > > > smaller tank that have a > > single LionHead > > > > > > Goldfish that is sooo > > > > > > > > > friendly that he eats > > from your hand. He may > > > > > > be going to the pond for > > > > > > > > > the summer... > > > > > > > > > I've had all types of > > fish over the years, > > > > > > but never angel's until > > > > > > > > > around 8 months ago. I > > visited our LSF, and > > > > > > they had a tank full of > > > > > > > > > nickel sized babies that > > another customer > > > > > > had breed. I actually met > > > > > > > > > the breeder in the > > store, and he has Angel's > > > > > > and Discus. I bought > > > > > > > 6 of > > > > > > > > > the babies, and they all > > did great until 3 > > > > > > months back when something > > > > > > > > > went wacky and I lost > > one after another in a > > > > > > span of two weeks. Well > > > > > > > > > the remaining 2 are now > > hugh (4-5" > > > > > > diameter). I would like them to > > > > > > > > > breed or get another one > > to go in with them, > > > > > > but I don't know if I > > > > > > > > > have a mixed pair, two > > males, or two > > > > > > females. Does anyone have any > > > > > > > > > ideas on how to sex > > them? > > > > > > > > > James S. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ------------------------------------ > > > > > > > > > > > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING > > below it when > > > > > > replying, Thank You. > > > > > > > > ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> > > > > > > ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , > > .·´¯`·..><((((º> > > > > > > PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, > > DELETE all TEXT that is > > > > > > NOT important to the reply & if > > CHANGING the TOPIC of > > > > > > the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT > > LINE -> i.e. "new > > > > > > subject (was re: old subject)" <- > > > > > > > > <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. > > > > > > , > > .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. > > > > > > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP > > in this matter. > > > > > > > > > > > > If you do not want all of the groups > > emails, instead of > > > > > > unsubscribing, you can change your > > delivery option by > > > > > > clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the > > home page. > > > > > > > > > > > > Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:aquaticlife-digest%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > <mailto:aquaticlife-digest%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > <mailto:aquaticlife-digest%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > to receive the digest, which includes > > up to 25 posts at a > > > > > > time in a single email > > > > > > > > > > > > Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:aquaticlife-nomail%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > <mailto:aquaticlife-nomail%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > <mailto:aquaticlife-nomail%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > for the No E-Mail option where you will > > still be able to > > > > > > read messages on the group and post > > replies. > > > > > > > > > > > > Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:aquaticlife-normal%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > <mailto:aquaticlife-normal%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > <mailto:aquaticlife-normal%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > to receive individual e-mails.Yahoo! > > Groups Links > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > mailto:AquaticLife-fullfeatured@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife-fullfeatured%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife-fullfeatured%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife-fullfeatured%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ------------------------------------ > > > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when > > replying, Thank You. > > ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> > > ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> > > PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is > > NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of > > the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new > > subject (was re: old subject)" <- > > <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. > > , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. > > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. > > > > If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of > > unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by > > clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the home page. > > > > Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:aquaticlife-digest%40yahoogroups.com> > > to receive the digest, which includes up to 25 posts at a > > time in a single email > > > > Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:aquaticlife-nomail%40yahoogroups.com> > > for the No E-Mail option where you will still be able to > > read messages on the group and post replies. > > > > Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:aquaticlife-normal%40yahoogroups.com> > > to receive individual e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > mailto:AquaticLife-fullfeatured@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife-fullfeatured%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > > ------------------------------------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the home page. Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com to receive the digest, which includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com for the No E-Mail option where you will still be able to read messages on the group and post replies. Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com to receive individual e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 41062	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 6/19/2009
Subject: Re: Ugh, now I no longer have any rams left :(

I have been watching videos of them on youtube and they are definitely interesting to watch guard their fry. My only worry is just how much does the male dig? Mongabay says that the males dig in the substrate when they start spawning. Amber Jpateson@... wrote: > > > Amber, > > That is why I enjoy the Kribs', they flutter around and are just > interesting to watch.. > > Jim > > > In a message dated 6/19/2009 4:23:41 P.M. Central Daylight Time, > amber@... <mailto:amber%40rose-fields.com> writes: > > If they aren't as bad as Angel's then I may consider them ;) > Ram's are fairly docile most of the time, but they do some chasing if > they have a territory they want to claim, but they don't tend to chase > other fish much, mostly just other rams. I started with 3, one died > right away to ich and I'm pretty sure the red tailed catfish ate one, > and this last one was found unharmed looking but very dead on the bottom > of the tank :( > I enjoy watching them because they like to flutter in place when they > see something interesting in the tank. > > Amber > > _Jpateson@... <mailto:_Jpateson%40aol.Jpa>_ > (mailto:Jpateson@... <mailto:Jpateson%40aol.com>) wrote: > > > > > > Amber, > > > > I'm thinking about getting some Rams, but I don't know how they get > along > > with other fish. The Kribs will "control" whatever part of the tank the > > babies are in, other than that they are good fish for a community > tank.... > > > > Jim > > > > > > In a message dated 6/19/2009 11:56:53 A.M. Central Daylight Time, > > _amber@... <mailto:_amber%40rose-fields.amb>_ > (mailto:amber@... <mailto:amber%40rose-fields.com>) > <mailto:amber%mailto:amber%mai> writes: > > > > Are they albino Kribs? hehe. > > And I have a fed ex account, I can ship it discounted that way, that's > > how I get my "cool" fish now days ;) > > I prefer the rams myself (I think they're prettier), how territorial do > > the Kribensis' get? > > I plan on picking up more rams when I can afford them though. > > > > Amber > > > > Jim Pat. wrote: > > > > > > > > > Amber, > > > > > > Want any Krib's? My male/female have been busy, from the first bunch I > > > have ~20 the size of neons and the new bunch is around 35. It's > > > interesting how they "seperate" the other fish from their new > > > batch.....If it wasn't so expensive to get them to Alaska I would send > > > you 10 or 15.... So far I haven't found a local fish store that wants > > > them... > > > > > > JIm > > > > > > --- In _AquaticLife@ --- In _Aqu --- > > (mailto:_AquaticLife@AquaticLife@Aqu_ > (mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>) > > <mailto:AquaticLifemailto:AquaticLmai>) > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLifemailto:AquaticLima>, Amber Berglund <amber@...> > > wrote: > > > > > > > > Found my last ram dead this evening, I'm pretty sure it was the > > Angel's > > > > fault. They've gone into spawning again and are nasty little > > buggers. I > > > > was messing with the Rena xp4 and the male nipped me quite good, > > > shocked > > > > me because I wasn't looking and didn't expect it, when I jerked my > arm > > > > out of the tank I scared Spike (my severum) and he ran into hiding, > > LOL. > > > > I urged the hubby to finish welding my stand together so I can > set up > > > > the 55 gallon for the Angel's, I already have their cycled media > > in the > > > > Rena Xp 4 waiting to be transfered into the other filter that came > > with > > > > the 55 gallon. Getting tired of them picking on all of the other > fish, > > > > I'm sure everyone will be glad when they go ;) > > > > I think I know what I'm going to be ordering next on my fish order > > > > (Rams, and I think I want to get some german ones this time so I can > > > see > > > > what they really look like in person, all the pictures seem to look > so > > > > similar between the bolivian's and the german blue rams). > > > > > > > > Amber > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ************ ************<WBR>**Download the AOL Classifieds Toolbar f > > your > > fingertips. > > > (_http://toolbar.http://toolbar.http://toolbar.http://toohttp://toolbar.http_ > <http://toolbar.http://toolbar.http://toolbar.http://toohttp://toolbar.http_> > > (http://toolbar.aol.com/aolclassifieds/download.html?ncid=emlcntusdown00000004 > <http://toolbar.aol.com/aolclassifieds/download.html?ncid=emlcntusdown00000004>) > > > > <_http://toolbar.http://toolbar.http://toolbar.http://toohttp://toolbar.http_ > <http://toolbar.http://toolbar.http://toolbar.http://toohttp://toolbar.http_> > > (http://toolbar.aol.com/aolclassifieds/download.html?ncid=emlcntusdown00000004 > <http://toolbar.aol.com/aolclassifieds/download.html?ncid=emlcntusdown00000004>) > >) > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > > > **************Download the AOL Classifieds Toolbar for local deals at > your > fingertips. > (http://toolbar.aol.com/aolclassifieds/download.html?ncid=emlcntusdown00000004 > <http://toolbar.aol.com/aolclassifieds/download.html?ncid=emlcntusdown00000004>) > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 41063	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 6/19/2009
Subject: Re: Sexing AngelFish? (now a possible Coup D'etat!)

Ray, Just remember, Growing old is mandatory, growing up is not. \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Raymond Wetzel Sent: Friday, June 19, 2009 4:02 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Sexing AngelFish? (now a possible Coup D'etat!) Nope, No G-ard. Yes, Latin from Shakespeare's Julius Caesar; a common expression literally meaning -- "and you, Brutus?" As if to say, is Bill joining you in the dastardly deed of calling us "grumpy old men." LOL Not yet sure if we should take offense to that, since it's bad enough that we're being referred to as "old fogeys". Come to think of it, I guess there's some truth to that -- LOL. Ray --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@...> wrote: > > Uh Oh... did G-rard show back up? > > Ooops.. never mind, a quick Google found that "Et Tu, Brute'" is not French, > but rather Latin. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Et_tu,_Brute%3F > > It still sounded French to me though! LOL > > How does this work into this thread though??? Wiki says, in part, that Et > Tu Brute' was "Immortalized by Shakespeare's Julius Caesar, the quotation is > widely used in Western culture as an epitome of betrayal." > > Has one of the "grumpy old men" committed a betrayal... better yet, perhaps > they are planning a Coup d'etat? Uh Oh, there's that French sounding stuff > again... but at least this time, it really is French. ;-) > http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Coup_d'etat > > Stay tuned for late breaking news! LOL > > Oh yeah... as a disclaimer, while I might use Wikipedia for stuff like the > above references, it's not usually the most reliable source of information > as anyone can edit a Wikipedia article and add bad information and it will > stay with that bad information until someone else comes along and finds and > fixes the bad information in the article. I could spend my whole life going > through Wikipedia articles fixing mistakes.. but who has time for that. > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right > side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) > > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On > Behalf Of Raymond Wetzel > Sent: Friday, June 19, 2009 10:52 AM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Sexing AngelFish? > > Et Tu, Brute'? LOL, LOL, LOL, Ray > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, bill 1433 <warrenprint@> wrote: > > > > > > Lenny, > > > > In a small way, being a member of this "club", I believe both references > are entirely accurate! > > > > ol'bill > > > > --- On Thu, 6/18/09, Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@> wrote: > > > > > From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@> > > > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: Sexing AngelFish? > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > > Date: Thursday, June 18, 2009, 11:41 PM > > > > > > \\Steve//, > > > > > > Did you mean "old fogeys" or "grumpy old men"? > > > > > > LOL > > > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles > > > referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, > > > alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) > > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] > > > On > > > Behalf Of Steve Szabo > > > Sent: Thursday, June 18, 2009 10:08 PM > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: Sexing AngelFish? > > > > > > Amber, > > > > > > As you become more experienced, you will learn to be more > > > discriminating with information you find on the web, in published > > > articles, and even in books, especially when it goes against your > > > personal experience. > > > > > > Ray is really a nice guy, he really is. He simply wanted a reference > > > to the material you were passing along so he could check it out > > > himself. > > > The problem is that written communication does not always come > > > across as you mean it to. Since I do know Ray (us old fogeys in the > > > hobby need to stick together), I can read the message as he probably > > > meant it., instead of reading it verbatim as you have. You need to > > > learn to take what is said in e-mail with a little grain of salt > > > rather than taking offense immediately. > > > If ray meant to cut you down, believe me, you would have known it. > > > > > > \\Steve// > > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] > > > On Behalf Of Amber Berglund > > > Sent: Thursday, June 18, 2009 9:46 PM > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: Sexing AngelFish? > > > > > > I don't hold onto all the links I read like Lenny does, so I have no > > > idea what breeder site on Angel's I read that on. > > > I don't mind being corrected Ray, but sometimes I wish you weren't > > > quite > > > > > > so mean about it sometimes, I didn't see you offering him any help > > > on getting his Angel's to breed and I was doing my best with what > > > info I have read on them, and since I have no problems getting mine > > > to spawn I was trying to pass on tips that I had read elsewhere. > > > If I was writing a paper on breeding Angel's then I could understand > > > asking for all of my sources and page info but I'm just trying to > > > help someone out with the info that I had found when I was > > > researching. > > > Guess > > > > > > I will just stick to the info that I personally have experienced > > > since I > > > > > > seem to be wrong so often when I try to pass on info that I've read. > > > > > > Amber > > > > > > Raymond Wetzel wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > NO, Not So! I don't know where you read that, but I > > > wonder if perhaps > > > > you misread it, If not, whoever wrote that is wrong, > > > other fish in the > > > > > > > tank WILL NOT induce any Angelfish to spawn. Could you > > > please tell me > > > > where you read this? I would tend to doubt that it > > > woyuld be in any > > > > well-penned book, as this kind of erroneous info has a > > > way of getting > > > > itself known as such as it spreads throughout the > > > hobby. I did notice > > > > that you advised James of this; just another case of > > > you can't believe > > > > > > > all you read. If it was on a web site, I can > > > understand that -- no one > > > > > > > should put complete faith in everything they read up > > > there, and pass > > > > it along, without knowing if it's true. > > > > > > > > Tetras, or any other small fish, when put with a > > > breeding pair of any > > > > species of substrate-sawning Cichlids are intended to > > > draw the > > > > attention of either one of the more aggressive > > > partners of the pair > > > > away from the other partner so that the least > > > aggressive partner does > > > > not take the full aggression of the more overbearing > > > one. > > > > > > > > They (these "dither fish") act to initiate the > > > territorial behavior of > > > > > > > both partners of the breesding pair so that they act > > > in symphony with > > > > each other towards one goal -- to keep the intruders > > > out of the > > > > breeding area. In this way, attention is drawn to > > > these dither fish, > > > > rather than each other. The pair is more apt to act in > > > harmony rather > > > > than one beating up on the other. This methods of > > > using dither fish is > > > > > > > usually reserved for much more aggressive Cichlids. > > > Most Angelfish > > > > pairs do not need dither fish with them, nor will > > > these dither fish > > > > induce their spawning. They will spawn when they want > > > to spawn. Most > > > > good young pairs will spawn every eight days once they > > > start spawning, > > > > > > > when allowed (when you pull the slate, to set their > > > breeding cycle > > > > going again). They will taper off after about 2 1/2 > > > years of age (they > > > > > > > will start spawning between 7 and 8 months, usually > > > closer to 9 > > > > months). Ray > > > > > > > > ---In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>, Amber > > > Berglund <amber@> > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > I've read from some breeders that some Angelfish > > > need activity in > > > the > > > > > tank from other fish to help induce breeding > > > habits, but mine don't > > > > seem > > > > > to have any problem with that so far, will have > > > to see how they act > > > > alone. > > > > > > > > > > Amber > > > > > > > > > > bill 1433 wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Amber, > > > > > > > > > > > > If you hit those Angels at a wrong time the > > > life-expediency of > > > > > > those Tetra's will be about 5 minutes! Once > > > you give the fish > > > their > > > > > > own tank, best leave it that way and save on > > > your tetra pennies! > > > > > > > > > > > > Bill > ------------------------------------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the home page. Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com to receive the digest, which includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com for the No E-Mail option where you will still be able to read messages on the group and post replies. Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com to receive individual e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 41064	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 6/19/2009
Subject: Re: Sexing AngelFish?

Not in SE Alaska, the land of typically over cast skies of gray ;) When the sun comes out here though it's gorgeous, wish it happened more often. The last time the sun came out I went fishing for trout (didn't catch anything though). There are lots of baby fish of some sort in the lake I was fishing in, either trout or steel head I believe... Pretty blue eyes whatever they were, they had kind of a shine to them. I'm not much of a fisher-woman I just enjoy the time out in the sun on the lake ;) Amber Steve Szabo wrote: > > > Amber, > > You can't fool us. Alaska = Land of the Midnight Sun. > > \\Steve// > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On Behalf Of Amber Berglund > Sent: Friday, June 19, 2009 11:15 AM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: Sexing AngelFish? > > Ray and Bill, > I was not as angry in my post as you guys seem to think I was, I was > only pointing out that Ray comes across as mean at times, even if he > doesn't mean to be. > I thought I also stated somewhere in my post to James that I have never > had to put tetras in my tank to get my Angelfish to breed so it was not > my experience that it was needed to be done, it was merely a suggestion > is all. > I really don't mind being corrected, I'd rather have the right > information than the wrong information and pass it on. > And what sun Bill? I live in Alaska ;) LOL > > Amber > > bill 1433 wrote: > > > > > > > > Hi Amber, > > > > You must remember, nearly all comments made here including Ray's, come > > from the author's own personal experience. They do and say the best > > that they can BUT they are YOUR fish. > > > > I say that to you because as good as their advise is THEY have not > > seen the fish personally. They are basing their information on a > > "here's what happened to me" scenario. > > What Ray and others tell you, as I do some time, is exactly what > > happened to them. > > > > Angel fish are not much different than Discus or any other Cichlid. > > BUT, each set of prospective pairs does have their own nuance. > > Sometime with Cichlids all that is needed is regular or a bit larger > > than normal, water change. Sometimes just the simple matter of > > turning the heat up a degree or two. All fish ARE different. Their > > are some simple guide lines and do's and don'ts but that is all Ray is > > trying to point out. He has, and to the best of my knowledge, still > > is working with and breeding Angel Fish. He may not be the "World's > > Leading Authority" but he is simply trying to help you over-come > > difficulties that are easily managed and prevent any damage to the fish. > > > > I'm afraid this is the one great draw backs to the Internet. There is > > a great deal of information on it but it's accuracy in many cases is > > changeling at best. > > > > Keep some sun on your face, > > > > Bill > > > > --- On Thu, 6/18/09, Amber Berglund <amber@... > <mailto:amber%40rose-fields.com> > > <mailto:amber%40rose-fields.com>> wrote: > > > > > From: Amber Berglund <amber@... > <mailto:amber%40rose-fields.com> > > <mailto:amber%40rose-fields.com>> > > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: Sexing AngelFish? > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > Date: Thursday, June 18, 2009, 9:45 PM > > > I don't hold onto all the links I > > > read like Lenny does, so I have no > > > idea what breeder site on Angel's I read that on. > > > I don't mind being corrected Ray, but sometimes I wish you > > > weren't quite > > > so mean about it sometimes, I didn't see you offering him > > > any help on > > > getting his Angel's to breed and I was doing my best with > > > what info I > > > have read on them, and since I have no problems getting > > > mine to spawn I > > > was trying to pass on tips that I had read elsewhere. > > > If I was writing a paper on breeding Angel's then I could > > > understand > > > asking for all of my sources and page info but I'm just > > > trying to help > > > someone out with the info that I had found when I was > > > researching. Guess > > > I will just stick to the info that I personally have > > > experienced since I > > > seem to be wrong so often when I try to pass on info that > > > I've read. > > > > > > Amber > > > > > > Raymond Wetzel wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > NO, Not So! I don't know where you read that, but I > > > wonder if perhaps > > > > you misread it, If not, whoever wrote that is wrong, > > > other fish in the > > > > tank WILL NOT induce any Angelfish to spawn. Could you > > > please tell me > > > > where you read this? I would tend to doubt that it > > > woyuld be in any > > > > well-penned book, as this kind of erroneous info has a > > > way of getting > > > > itself known as such as it spreads throughout the > > > hobby. I did notice > > > > that you advised James of this; just another case of > > > you can't believe > > > > all you read. If it was on a web site, I can > > > understand that -- no one > > > > should put complete faith in everything they read up > > > there, and pass > > > > it along, without knowing if it's true. > > > > > > > > Tetras, or any other small fish, when put with a > > > breeding pair of any > > > > species of substrate-sawning Cichlids are intended to > > > draw the > > > > attention of either one of the more aggressive > > > partners of the pair > > > > away from the other partner so that the least > > > aggressive partner does > > > > not take the full aggression of the more overbearing > > > one. > > > > > > > > They (these "dither fish") act to initiate the > > > territorial behavior of > > > > both partners of the breesding pair so that they act > > > in symphony with > > > > each other towards one goal -- to keep the intruders > > > out of the > > > > breeding area. In this way, attention is drawn to > > > these dither fish, > > > > rather than each other. The pair is more apt to act in > > > harmony rather > > > > than one beating up on the other. This methods of > > > using dither fish is > > > > usually reserved for much more aggressive Cichlids. > > > Most Angelfish > > > > pairs do not need dither fish with them, nor will > > > these dither fish > > > > induce their spawning. They will spawn when they want > > > to spawn. Most > > > > good young pairs will spawn every eight days once they > > > start spawning, > > > > when allowed (when you pull the slate, to set their > > > breeding cycle > > > > going again). They will taper off after about 2 1/2 > > > years of age (they > > > > will start spawning between 7 and 8 months, usually > > > closer to 9 > > > > months). Ray > > > > > > > > ---In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>, Amber > > > Berglund <amber@...> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > I've read from some breeders that some Angelfish > > > need activity in the > > > > > tank from other fish to help induce breeding > > > habits, but mine don't > > > > seem > > > > > to have any problem with that so far, will have > > > to see how they act > > > > alone. > > > > > > > > > > Amber > > > > > > > > > > bill 1433 wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Amber, > > > > > > > > > > > > If you hit those Angels at a wrong time the > > > life-expediency of > > > > > > those Tetra's will be about 5 minutes! Once > > > you give the fish their > > > > > > own tank, best leave it that way and save on > > > your tetra pennies! > > > > > > > > > > > > Bill > > > > > > > > > > > > --- On Thu, 6/18/09, Amber Berglund > > > <amber@... > > > > > > <mailto:amber%40rose-fields.com>> > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > From: Amber Berglund <amber@... > > > > > > <mailto:amber%40rose-fields.com>> > > > > > > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: Sexing > > > AngelFish? > > > > > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > Date: Thursday, June 18, 2009, 5:09 PM > > > > > > > Shipping freshwater fish tends to be > > > > > > > less stressful on the fish than > > > > > > > saltwater from what I have heard > > > (rumors), but I don't have > > > > > > > saltwater > > > > > > > tanks either, so I'm not sure > > > personally. > > > > > > > Mine seem to go into their spawning > > > behavior about once a > > > > > > > month or so. I > > > > > > > leave the eggs in the tank and when I > > > move my 2 angel's > > > > > > > over to their > > > > > > > own 55 gallon I will let them raise > > > them by themselves. > > > > > > > Some breeders also put in faster > > > swimming tetras to help > > > > > > > induce breeding > > > > > > > too, you may have a mated pair and not > > > know it as they > > > > > > > haven't felt the > > > > > > > desire to breed just yet. Have you ever > > > had any middle > > > > > > > swimming fast > > > > > > > fish such as tetra's in the tank with > > > your Angel's? > > > > > > > Silver dollars are a popular fish to > > > put in with Angel's, > > > > > > > but they get > > > > > > > big (bigger than the Angel's I think), > > > I have never had any > > > > > > > myself. But > > > > > > > my LFS has some in stock, LOL. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Amber > > > > > > > > > > > > > > nicurns@... > > > <mailto:nicurns%40bellsouth.net> > > > > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Amber, Thanks for replying. I > > > don't see any aggressive > > > > > > > behavior within > > > > > > > > the tank except between the two > > > angels at times. It > > > > > > > almost appears as > > > > > > > > though they are playing!!!LOL > > > > > > > > The only other fish in that tank > > > are 2 cory's and a > > > > > > > medium sized > > > > > > > > Pleco. The angels stay to > > > themselves as do the cory's > > > > > > > and I rarely see > > > > > > > > the Pleco except an occasional > > > darting whenever > > > > > > > entering the room. > > > > > > > > Regarding your angels.... Once > > > they began spawning, > > > > > > > how often did this > > > > > > > > re-occur? Do you allow them to > > > care for the babies or > > > > > > > do you remove > > > > > > > > them to a seperate tank? > > > > > > > > I am planning on getting another > > > larger angel or two, > > > > > > > to go into this > > > > > > > > tank but just having issues > > > finding larger ones in my > > > > > > > area. I have > > > > > > > > purchased marine fish over the web > > > in the past, but > > > > > > > have not done so > > > > > > > > with freshwater species yet. Maybe > > > I'll start looking > > > > > > > into this over > > > > > > > > the next few weeks. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Thanks, > > > > > > > > James S. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>, Amber > > > > > > > Berglund <amber@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Angel's are not able to be > > > sexed unless they are > > > > > > > actively laying eggs > > > > > > > > > (spawning). Their sexual > > > organs are inside > > > > > > > obviously ;) LOL. > > > > > > > > > I have a mated pair of > > > angel's and I just > > > > > > > happened to get lucky that > > > > > > > > > way, I started out with 2 and > > > one died, so I > > > > > > > replaced it with another > > > > > > > > > and that 2nd one turned out > > > to be female and my > > > > > > > first was a male. > > > > > > > > > Most people get groups of > > > angel's and wait until > > > > > > > they pair up to find a > > > > > > > > > pair to mate. > > > > > > > > > Are your angel's showing any > > > sign of mating > > > > > > > behavior at all? When mine > > > > > > > > > get ready to lay eggs they > > > will chase all the > > > > > > > other fish to the other > > > > > > > > > side of the tank and start > > > cleaning a spot to lay > > > > > > > their eggs on (while > > > > > > > > > the other one guards for > > > intruders the female > > > > > > > will start to lay the > > > > > > > > > eggs, then they take turns > > > guarding while the > > > > > > > male fertilizes the > > > > > > > > eggs). > > > > > > > > > If you haven't seen too much > > > aggression towards > > > > > > > your other fish and the > > > > > > > > > other 2 teaming up together > > > and chasing the other > > > > > > > fish away then I'd > > > > > > > > > have to guess you have 2 of > > > the same sex. > > > > > > > > > It may be hard to introduce > > > smaller angel's at > > > > > > > this point in time as > > > > > > > > the > > > > > > > > > bigger ones will pick on the > > > smaller ones. > > > > > > > > > I suppose you could slowly > > > try introducing some > > > > > > > new angel's with a tank > > > > > > > > > divider and see how > > > aggressive the big ones are > > > > > > > with the divider in. If > > > > > > > > > they are really aggressive > > > and attack at the > > > > > > > divider then you may have > > > > > > > > > to wait until the smaller > > > angel's get closer in > > > > > > > size to the big ones, > > > > > > > > > you can speed up that process > > > (a little) by > > > > > > > frequent water changes and > > > > > > > > > feeding the young Angel's > > > really well, just make > > > > > > > sure to keep the water > > > > > > > > > changes going (don't go > > > overboard on them, once a > > > > > > > day should me more > > > > > > > > > than plenty if you're doing > > > 25% changes), this > > > > > > > helps remove the > > > > > > > > hormones > > > > > > > > > from the water so the fish > > > will grow a little > > > > > > > faster. Unless you can > > > > > > > > > talk to the breeder some how > > > and see if they > > > > > > > might be willing to trade > > > > > > > > > you a mated pair ;) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Amber > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > nicurns@ wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Hello all. My name is > > > James and I live in > > > > > > > UpState South Carolina. I > > > > > > > > > > have been keeping fish > > > for more years than I > > > > > > > would like to admit, and > > > > > > > > > > every 5 years or so I > > > mix everything up and > > > > > > > change what I am keeping. > > > > > > > > > > Currently we have a > > > 1200-1500 gal pond that > > > > > > > I built, and rebuilt, and > > > > > > > > > > of course rebuilt again. > > > I am happy with my > > > > > > > final result for now, but > > > > > > > > > > do keep it in the back > > > of my head that > > > > > > > Bigger is Better, so who > > > > > > > > knows??? > > > > > > > > > > We have goldfish up to > > > 13" long with their > > > > > > > offspring that have not > > > > > > > > > > been taken by the Heron > > > during the winter. I > > > > > > > also have 2 medium size > > > > > > > > > > butterfly Koi and over > > > abundance of plants. > > > > > > > > > > Indoors, we have a 58gal > > > FW tank with a > > > > > > > 30gal sum-filter (making > > > > > > > > > > between 80 and 90 gal's > > > give or take),and 2 > > > > > > > external filters as well > > > > > > > > > > housing 2 large Angels, > > > 2 cory's, and a > > > > > > > pleco. This tank was a Reef > > > > > > > > > > tank for many years, but > > > I am over all that > > > > > > > work!!!!!! We also have a > > > > > > > > > > smaller tank that have a > > > single LionHead > > > > > > > Goldfish that is sooo > > > > > > > > > > friendly that he eats > > > from your hand. He may > > > > > > > be going to the pond for > > > > > > > > > > the summer... > > > > > > > > > > I've had all types of > > > fish over the years, > > > > > > > but never angel's until > > > > > > > > > > around 8 months ago. I > > > visited our LSF, and > > > > > > > they had a tank full of > > > > > > > > > > nickel sized babies that > > > another customer > > > > > > > had breed. I actually met > > > > > > > > > > the breeder in the > > > store, and he has Angel's > > > > > > > and Discus. I bought > > > > > > > > 6 of > > > > > > > > > > the babies, and they all > > > did great until 3 > > > > > > > months back when something > > > > > > > > > > went wacky and I lost > > > one after another in a > > > > > > > span of two weeks. Well > > > > > > > > > > the remaining 2 are now > > > hugh (4-5" > > > > > > > diameter). I would like them to > > > > > > > > > > breed or get another one > > > to go in with them, > > > > > > > but I don't know if I > > > > > > > > > > have a mixed pair, two > > > males, or two > > > > > > > females. Does anyone have any > > > > > > > > > > ideas on how to sex > > > them? > > > > > > > > > > James S. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ------------------------------------ > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING > > > below it when > > > > > > > replying, Thank You. > > > > > > > > > > ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> > > > > > > > ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , > > > .·´¯`·..><((((º> > > > > > > > PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, > > > DELETE all TEXT that is > > > > > > > NOT important to the reply & if > > > CHANGING the TOPIC of > > > > > > > the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT > > > LINE -> i.e. "new > > > > > > > subject (was re: old subject)" <- > > > > > > > > > > <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. > > > > > > > , > > > .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. > > > > > > > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP > > > in this matter. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > If you do not want all of the groups > > > emails, instead of > > > > > > > unsubscribing, you can change your > > > delivery option by > > > > > > > clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the > > > home page. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:aquaticlife-digest%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:aquaticlife-digest%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > <mailto:aquaticlife-digest%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > > > <mailto:aquaticlife-digest%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > to receive the digest, which includes > > > up to 25 posts at a > > > > > > > time in a single email > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:aquaticlife-nomail%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:aquaticlife-nomail%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > <mailto:aquaticlife-nomail%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > > > <mailto:aquaticlife-nomail%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > for the No E-Mail option where you will > > > still be able to > > > > > > > read messages on the group and post > > > replies. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:aquaticlife-normal%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:aquaticlife-normal%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > <mailto:aquaticlife-normal%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > > > <mailto:aquaticlife-normal%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > to receive individual e-mails.Yahoo! > > > Groups Links > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > mailto:AquaticLife-fullfeatured@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife-fullfeatured%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife-fullfeatured%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife-fullfeatured%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife-fullfeatured%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ------------------------------------ > > > > > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when > > > replying, Thank You. > > > ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> > > > ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> > > > PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is > > > NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of > > > the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new > > > subject (was re: old subject)" <- > > > <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. > > > , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. > > > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. > > > > > > If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of > > > unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by > > > clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the home page. > > > > > > Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:aquaticlife-digest%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:aquaticlife-digest%40yahoogroups.com> > > > to receive the digest, which includes up to 25 posts at a > > > time in a single email > > > > > > Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:aquaticlife-nomail%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:aquaticlife-nomail%40yahoogroups.com> > > > for the No E-Mail option where you will still be able to > > > read messages on the group and post replies. > > > > > > Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:aquaticlife-normal%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:aquaticlife-normal%40yahoogroups.com> > > > to receive individual e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > > > > mailto:AquaticLife-fullfeatured@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife-fullfeatured%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife-fullfeatured%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ------------------------------------ > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. > ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> > PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT > important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message > MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- > <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. > > If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of unsubscribing, > you can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My > Membership" on the home page. > > Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:aquaticlife-digest%40yahoogroups.com> to receive the digest, > which includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email > > Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:aquaticlife-nomail%40yahoogroups.com> for the No E-Mail option > where you will still be able to read messages on the group and post > replies. > > Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:aquaticlife-normal%40yahoogroups.com> to receive individual > e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 41065	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 6/19/2009
Subject: Re: Selling aquarium, besides craigslist where can I advertise?

Checkout the local clubs in the DC area. Start with Potomac Valley, www.pvas.com, and then look at the links section for most of the other clubs. \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of sweetpisces3180 Sent: Friday, June 19, 2009 9:40 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Selling aquarium, besides craigslist where can I advertise? I've posted on craigslist but haven't gotten a response. I didn't exactly see a place on here to sell, and I'm wondering where else I can post? I don't want to pay to advert in a newspaper, etc. I have a 65 gallon freshwater aquarium with all the equipment needed, it's a very clean tank! But it's too small for my new apt. any ideas or interest in the DC metro area?

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 41066	From: Jpateson@aol.com	Date: 6/19/2009
Subject: Re: Sexing AngelFish? (now a possible Coup D'etat!)

Steve, I consider myself a young man trapped in an old man's body..... :) Jim In a message dated 6/19/2009 9:15:04 P.M. Central Daylight Time, steve@... writes: Ray, Just remember, Growing old is mandatory, growing up is not. \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: _AquaticLife@AquaticLife@Aqu_ (mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com) [mailto:_AquaticLife@AquaticLife@Aqu_ (mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com) ] On Behalf Of Raymond Wetzel Sent: Friday, June 19, 2009 4:02 PM To: _AquaticLife@AquaticLife@Aqu_ (mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com) Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Sexing AngelFish? (now a possible Coup D'etat!) Nope, No G-ard. Yes, Latin from Shakespeare'Nope, No G-ard. Yes, Latin from Shakespeare'<WBR>s Julius Caesar; a common expression literally meaning -- "and you, Brutus?" As if to say, is Bill joining you in the d Not yet sure if we should take offense to that, since it's bad enough that we're being referred to as "old fogeys". Come to think of it, I guess there's some truth to that -- LOL. Ray --- In _AquaticLife@AquaticLife@Aqu_ (mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com) , "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@.Go> wrote: > > Uh Oh... did G-rard show back up? > > Ooops.. never mind, a quick Google found that "Et Tu, Brute'" is not French, > but rather Latin. _http://en.wikipediahttp://en.http://en.wikht_ (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Et_tu,_Brute?) > > It still sounded French to me though! LOL > > How does this work into this thread though??? Wiki says, in part, that Et > Tu Brute' was "Immortalized by Shakespeare' Tu Brute' was "Immortalized by Shake > widely used in Western culture as an epitome of betrayal." > > Has one of the "grumpy old men" committed a betrayal... better yet, perhaps > they are planning a Coup d'etat? Uh Oh, there's that French sounding stuff > again... but at least this time, it really is French. ;-) > _http://en.wikipediahttp://en.http:/_ (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Coup_d) 'etat > > Stay tuned for late breaking news! LOL > > Oh yeah... as a disclaimer, while I might use Wikipedia for stuff like the > above references, it's not usually the most reliable source of information > as anyone can edit a Wikipedia article and add bad information and it will > stay with that bad information until someone else comes along and finds and > fixes the bad information in the article. I could spend my whole life going > through Wikipedia articles fixing mistakes.. but who has time for that. > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - _http://GoldLenny.http://Gohtt_ (http://goldlenny.blogspot.com/) > (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right > side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) > > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: _AquaticLife@AquaticLife@Aqu_ (mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com) [mailto:_AquaticLife@AquaticLife@Aqu_ (mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com) ] On > Behalf Of Raymond Wetzel > Sent: Friday, June 19, 2009 10:52 AM > To: _AquaticLife@AquaticLife@Aqu_ (mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com) > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Sexing AngelFish? > > Et Tu, Brute'? LOL, LOL, LOL, Ray > > > > --- In _AquaticLife@AquaticLife@Aqu_ (mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com) , bill 1433 <warrenprint@> wrote: > > > > > > Lenny, > > > > In a small way, being a member of this "club", I believe both references > are entirely accurate! > > > > ol'bill > > > > --- On Thu, 6/18/09, Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@> wrote: > > > > > From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@> > > > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: Sexing AngelFish? > > > To: _AquaticLife@AquaticLife@Aqu_ (mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com) > > > Date: Thursday, June 18, 2009, 11:41 PM > > > > > > \\Steve//, > > > > > > Did you mean "old fogeys" or "grumpy old men"? > > > > > > LOL > > > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > > Fish Blog - _http://GoldLenny.http://Gohtt_ (http://goldlenny.blogspot.com/) (Links to any articles > > > referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, > > > alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) > > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > From: _AquaticLife@AquaticLife@Aqu_ (mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com) > > > [mailto:_AquaticLife@AquaticLife@Aqu_ (mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com) ] > > > On > > > Behalf Of Steve Szabo > > > Sent: Thursday, June 18, 2009 10:08 PM > > > To: _AquaticLife@AquaticLife@Aqu_ (mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com) > > > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: Sexing AngelFish? > > > > > > Amber, > > > > > > As you become more experienced, you will learn to be more > > > discriminating with information you find on the web, in published > > > articles, and even in books, especially when it goes against your > > > personal experience. > > > > > > Ray is really a nice guy, he really is. He simply wanted a reference > > > to the material you were passing along so he could check it out > > > himself. > > > The problem is that written communication does not always come > > > across as you mean it to. Since I do know Ray (us old fogeys in the > > > hobby need to stick together), I can read the message as he probably > > > meant it., instead of reading it verbatim as you have. You need to > > > learn to take what is said in e-mail with a little grain of salt > > > rather than taking offense immediately. > > > If ray meant to cut you down, believe me, you would have known it. > > > > > > \\Steve// > > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > From: _AquaticLife@AquaticLife@Aqu_ (mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com) > > > [mailto:_AquaticLife@AquaticLife@Aqu_ (mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com) ] > > > On Behalf Of Amber Berglund > > > Sent: Thursday, June 18, 2009 9:46 PM > > > To: _AquaticLife@AquaticLife@Aqu_ (mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com) > > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: Sexing AngelFish? > > > > > > I don't hold onto all the links I read like Lenny does, so I have no > > > idea what breeder site on Angel's I read that on. > > > I don't mind being corrected Ray, but sometimes I wish you weren't > > > quite > > > > > > so mean about it sometimes, I didn't see you offering him any help > > > on getting his Angel's to breed and I was doing my best with what > > > info I have read on them, and since I have no problems getting mine > > > to spawn I was trying to pass on tips that I had read elsewhere. > > > If I was writing a paper on breeding Angel's then I could understand > > > asking for all of my sources and page info but I'm just trying to > > > help someone out with the info that I had found when I was > > > researching. > > > Guess > > > > > > I will just stick to the info that I personally have experienced > > > since I > > > > > > seem to be wrong so often when I try to pass on info that I've read. > > > > > > Amber > > > > > > Raymond Wetzel wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > NO, Not So! I don't know where you read that, but I > > > wonder if perhaps > > > > you misread it, If not, whoever wrote that is wrong, > > > other fish in the > > > > > > > tank WILL NOT induce any Angelfish to spawn. Could you > > > please tell me > > > > where you read this? I would tend to doubt that it > > > woyuld be in any > > > > well-penned book, as this kind of erroneous info has a > > > way of getting > > > > itself known as such as it spreads throughout the > > > hobby. I did notice > > > > that you advised James of this; just another case of > > > you can't believe > > > > > > > all you read. If it was on a web site, I can > > > understand that -- no one > > > > > > > should put complete faith in everything they read up > > > there, and pass > > > > it along, without knowing if it's true. > > > > > > > > Tetras, or any other small fish, when put with a > > > breeding pair of any > > > > species of substrate-sawning Cichlids are intended to > > > draw the > > > > attention of either one of the more aggressive > > > partners of the pair > > > > away from the other partner so that the least > > > aggressive partner does > > > > not take the full aggression of the more overbearing > > > one. > > > > > > > > They (these "dither fish") act to initiate the > > > territorial behavior of > > > > > > > both partners of the breesding pair so that they act > > > in symphony with > > > > each other towards one goal -- to keep the intruders > > > out of the > > > > breeding area. In this way, attention is drawn to > > > these dither fish, > > > > rather than each other. The pair is more apt to act in > > > harmony rather > > > > than one beating up on the other. This methods of > > > using dither fish is > > > > > > > usually reserved for much more aggressive Cichlids. > > > Most Angelfish > > > > pairs do not need dither fish with them, nor will > > > these dither fish > > > > induce their spawning. They will spawn when they want > > > to spawn. Most > > > > good young pairs will spawn every eight days once they > > > start spawning, > > > > > > > when allowed (when you pull the slate, to set their > > > breeding cycle > > > > going again). They will taper off after about 2 1/2 > > > years of age (they > > > > > > > will start spawning between 7 and 8 months, usually > > > closer to 9 > > > > months). Ray > > > > > > > > ---In _AquaticLife@AquaticLife@Aqu_ (mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com) > > > > <mailto:AquaticLifemailto:AquaticLmai>, Amber > > > Berglund <amber@> > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > I've read from some breeders that some Angelfish > > > need activity in > > > the > > > > > tank from other fish to help induce breeding > > > habits, but mine don't > > > > seem > > > > > to have any problem with that so far, will have > > > to see how they act > > > > alone. > > > > > > > > > > Amber > > > > > > > > > > bill 1433 wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Amber, > > > > > > > > > > > > If you hit those Angels at a wrong time the > > > life-expediency of > > > > > > those Tetra's will be about 5 minutes! Once > > > you give the fish > > > their > > > > > > own tank, best leave it that way and save on > > > your tetra pennies! > > > > > > > > > > > > Bill > ------------------------------------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the home page. 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Group: AquaticLife	Message: 41067	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 6/19/2009
Subject: Re: New fish pond...need advice

Shannon, Husband is a military man, is he? That usually means periodic transfers, doesn't it? In that case, your idea of container water gardens would be a good one. They would be easy to pick up and move with you, rather than leaving the pond behind. The clay is no fun to dig. Probably the cheapest, and largest, container are the really inexpensive kiddie pools you'd find in the discount stores. This is a case where it pays to go cheap. The more inexpensive, the less likely the pool will have the various -cides that can be harmful to both plants and fish. These include things like mildewcides, algaecides, as well as plasticizers to give the plastic some flexibility. You can just place the pool on a flat, level surface in your yard or to dig it in a few inches or even full depth, which will add rigidity to the side of the pool. You can then use potted water or bog plants in it, and most any aquarium fish will be able to be kept in one of these. The real downside is the color., often a bright blue with colorful characters as a design. Less jarring on your sight would be the preformed ponds at the garden centers. They are more expensive, but they are, almost universally, black in color, but way more expensive. They also have a tendency to be deeper than the kiddie ponds, and are meant to be placed in the ground. Going down in size, and more likely to do well on your porch, would be the half barrel with a liner. The half barrels are actually wooden barrels that have been cut in half. It used to be that all you found had been used in the creation of certain adult beverages, but now, I suspect that a good number have never seen the inside of a winery or distiller. Still plantable, but more limited in the fish you can keep within their confines. They also make plastic "half barrels", a container of roughly the same size, but without the history. Moving on down in size, you can get even smaller containers of about 20 gallons in size that are suitable for one or two plants and a few fish. Finally, since you have a porch, you could simply set up a regular aquarium I'll follow up with some more comments tomorrow, since I am about to fall asleep. Don't know why, I only worked 10.5 hours today, and left early because it was Friday <g>. Ray should eventually come upon this and may be able to add to it since, I believe, he used to work at a water garden place in NJ. I'm sure his observations will be right on the money. \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of sgriscom_2 Sent: Friday, June 19, 2009 7:28 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] New fish pond...need advice Hello all, I live in Virginia and am planning my first pond. I am not in any hurry as I want to do it right. It was actually my husbands idea but guess who will be doing most of the work. He is stationed on a cutter right now and isn't home much but he wants to have one setup when he transfers to a land unit. I have been searching the net and have exhasted my local library in books of ponds and container gardens. I haven't decided on many things yet. I know I have clay soil that is very packed. I was thinking maybe to start with a large container garden on my screened porch but not sure if that is a good idea with fish or not. I thought that might be a good test before I start digging holes. From what I read fish can do well in container gardens but all the containers I've seen have been rather small. I don't currently know anyone personally that has a pond or any experiences with them so I'm hoping to get some good advice here. Hope you can help. Shannnon

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 41068	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 6/19/2009
Subject: Re: Ray Fan Club

Donna, You're going to cause Google to crash, with Ol' Bill having to look up all them acronyms. LOL And that is a fact, IMO... or would that be IMHO? Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Donna Ransome Sent: Friday, June 19, 2009 5:47 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Ray Fan Club I know Ray too, but leave me out of that fogey group please, LOL. You couldn't know a nicer person Amber. But you definitely have to be sure of your info before you pass it along. If you can say IME that's best. If you have the citation, that's second best. If you just read it somewhere, always a good idea to add a caveat like FWIW and could be truth or myth.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 41069	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 6/19/2009
Subject: Re: Off Topic? ~ Great Sale! @ www.CustomAquatic.com

Aaron, Is that your site? If it isn't, then it's certainly NOT spam IMO. Heck, even if it is your site and you have the best prices in the world, it's worth sharing... maybe adding a disclaimer that it's your site. As long as you don't start using O-cea_n-P-ure in the Subject line. LOL Exactly how many ways can the V and C words be spelled? LOL Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of aaron102272 Sent: Friday, June 19, 2009 6:01 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Off Topic? ~ Great Sale! @ www.CustomAquatic.com https://www.customaquatic.com/ 10% off all Saltwater & Freshwater Additives and Water Conditioners ~ Hurry - Sale ends June 24th and for a limited time, take an extra 25% off Oceanpure & Oceanpure PRO Salt This was my first time buying from this website, they had the lowest prices I could find for products for my Planted Tank and the 4 Liter of Flourish Excel (I could not find any other place that even offers the 4liter size) I apologize if you think this is spam, however if you happen to know of a great website with the lowest prices available and awesome sales, I hope you too would be willing to share that info with me and the other members in the group that might be interested in saving some money. Thanks for reading, Aaron

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 41070	From: Jpateson@aol.com	Date: 6/19/2009
Subject: Re: Sexing AngelFish? (now a possible Coup D'etat!)

I just had a Coup D'etat at StarBucks today.... Jim In a message dated 6/19/2009 3:04:24 P.M. Central Daylight Time, sevenspringss@... writes: Nope, No G-ard. Yes, Latin from Shakespeare'Nope, No G-ard. Yes, Latin from Shakespeare'<WBR>s Julius Caesar; a common expression literally meaning -- "and you, Brutus?" As if to say, is Bill joining you in the dasta Not yet sure if we should take offense to that, since it's bad enough that we're being referred to as "old fogeys". Come to think of it, I guess there's some truth to that -- LOL. Ray --- In _AquaticLife@AquaticLife@Aqu_ (mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com) , "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@.Go> wrote: > > Uh Oh... did G-rard show back up? > > Ooops.. never mind, a quick Google found that "Et Tu, Brute'" is not French, > but rather Latin. _http://en.wikipediahttp://en.http://en.wikht_ (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Et_tu,_Brute?) > > It still sounded French to me though! LOL > > How does this work into this thread though??? Wiki says, in part, that Et > Tu Brute' was "Immortalized by Shakespeare' Tu Brute' was "Immortalized by Shake > widely used in Western culture as an epitome of betrayal." > > Has one of the "grumpy old men" committed a betrayal... better yet, perhaps > they are planning a Coup d'etat? Uh Oh, there's that French sounding stuff > again... but at least this time, it really is French. ;-) > _http://en.wikipediahttp://en.http:/_ (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Coup_d) 'etat > > Stay tuned for late breaking news! LOL > > Oh yeah... as a disclaimer, while I might use Wikipedia for stuff like the > above references, it's not usually the most reliable source of information > as anyone can edit a Wikipedia article and add bad information and it will > stay with that bad information until someone else comes along and finds and > fixes the bad information in the article. I could spend my whole life going > through Wikipedia articles fixing mistakes.. but who has time for that. > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - _http://GoldLenny.http://Gohtt_ (http://goldlenny.blogspot.com/) > (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right > side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) > > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: _AquaticLife@AquaticLife@Aqu_ (mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com) [mailto:_AquaticLife@AquaticLife@Aqu_ (mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com) ] On > Behalf Of Raymond Wetzel > Sent: Friday, June 19, 2009 10:52 AM > To: _AquaticLife@AquaticLife@Aqu_ (mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com) > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Sexing AngelFish? > > Et Tu, Brute'? LOL, LOL, LOL, Ray > > > > --- In _AquaticLife@AquaticLife@Aqu_ (mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com) , bill 1433 <warrenprint@> wrote: > > > > > > Lenny, > > > > In a small way, being a member of this "club", I believe both references > are entirely accurate! > > > > ol'bill > > > > --- On Thu, 6/18/09, Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@> wrote: > > > > > From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@> > > > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: Sexing AngelFish? > > > To: _AquaticLife@AquaticLife@Aqu_ (mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com) > > > Date: Thursday, June 18, 2009, 11:41 PM > > > > > > \\Steve//, > > > > > > Did you mean "old fogeys" or "grumpy old men"? > > > > > > LOL > > > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > > Fish Blog - _http://GoldLenny.http://Gohtt_ (http://goldlenny.blogspot.com/) (Links to any articles > > > referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, > > > alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) > > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > From: _AquaticLife@AquaticLife@Aqu_ (mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com) > > > [mailto:_AquaticLife@AquaticLife@Aqu_ (mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com) ] > > > On > > > Behalf Of Steve Szabo > > > Sent: Thursday, June 18, 2009 10:08 PM > > > To: _AquaticLife@AquaticLife@Aqu_ (mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com) > > > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: Sexing AngelFish? > > > > > > Amber, > > > > > > As you become more experienced, you will learn to be more > > > discriminating with information you find on the web, in published > > > articles, and even in books, especially when it goes against your > > > personal experience. > > > > > > Ray is really a nice guy, he really is. He simply wanted a reference > > > to the material you were passing along so he could check it out > > > himself. > > > The problem is that written communication does not always come > > > across as you mean it to. Since I do know Ray (us old fogeys in the > > > hobby need to stick together), I can read the message as he probably > > > meant it., instead of reading it verbatim as you have. You need to > > > learn to take what is said in e-mail with a little grain of salt > > > rather than taking offense immediately. > > > If ray meant to cut you down, believe me, you would have known it. > > > > > > \\Steve// > > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > From: _AquaticLife@AquaticLife@Aqu_ (mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com) > > > [mailto:_AquaticLife@AquaticLife@Aqu_ (mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com) ] > > > On Behalf Of Amber Berglund > > > Sent: Thursday, June 18, 2009 9:46 PM > > > To: _AquaticLife@AquaticLife@Aqu_ (mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com) > > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: Sexing AngelFish? > > > > > > I don't hold onto all the links I read like Lenny does, so I have no > > > idea what breeder site on Angel's I read that on. > > > I don't mind being corrected Ray, but sometimes I wish you weren't > > > quite > > > > > > so mean about it sometimes, I didn't see you offering him any help > > > on getting his Angel's to breed and I was doing my best with what > > > info I have read on them, and since I have no problems getting mine > > > to spawn I was trying to pass on tips that I had read elsewhere. > > > If I was writing a paper on breeding Angel's then I could understand > > > asking for all of my sources and page info but I'm just trying to > > > help someone out with the info that I had found when I was > > > researching. > > > Guess > > > > > > I will just stick to the info that I personally have experienced > > > since I > > > > > > seem to be wrong so often when I try to pass on info that I've read. > > > > > > Amber > > > > > > Raymond Wetzel wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > NO, Not So! I don't know where you read that, but I > > > wonder if perhaps > > > > you misread it, If not, whoever wrote that is wrong, > > > other fish in the > > > > > > > tank WILL NOT induce any Angelfish to spawn. Could you > > > please tell me > > > > where you read this? I would tend to doubt that it > > > woyuld be in any > > > > well-penned book, as this kind of erroneous info has a > > > way of getting > > > > itself known as such as it spreads throughout the > > > hobby. I did notice > > > > that you advised James of this; just another case of > > > you can't believe > > > > > > > all you read. If it was on a web site, I can > > > understand that -- no one > > > > > > > should put complete faith in everything they read up > > > there, and pass > > > > it along, without knowing if it's true. > > > > > > > > Tetras, or any other small fish, when put with a > > > breeding pair of any > > > > species of substrate-sawning Cichlids are intended to > > > draw the > > > > attention of either one of the more aggressive > > > partners of the pair > > > > away from the other partner so that the least > > > aggressive partner does > > > > not take the full aggression of the more overbearing > > > one. > > > > > > > > They (these "dither fish") act to initiate the > > > territorial behavior of > > > > > > > both partners of the breesding pair so that they act > > > in symphony with > > > > each other towards one goal -- to keep the intruders > > > out of the > > > > breeding area. In this way, attention is drawn to > > > these dither fish, > > > > rather than each other. The pair is more apt to act in > > > harmony rather > > > > than one beating up on the other. This methods of > > > using dither fish is > > > > > > > usually reserved for much more aggressive Cichlids. > > > Most Angelfish > > > > pairs do not need dither fish with them, nor will > > > these dither fish > > > > induce their spawning. They will spawn when they want > > > to spawn. Most > > > > good young pairs will spawn every eight days once they > > > start spawning, > > > > > > > when allowed (when you pull the slate, to set their > > > breeding cycle > > > > going again). They will taper off after about 2 1/2 > > > years of age (they > > > > > > > will start spawning between 7 and 8 months, usually > > > closer to 9 > > > > months). Ray > > > > > > > > ---In _AquaticLife@AquaticLife@Aqu_ (mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com) > > > > <mailto:AquaticLifemailto:AquaticLmai>, Amber > > > Berglund <amber@> > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > I've read from some breeders that some Angelfish > > > need activity in > > > the > > > > > tank from other fish to help induce breeding > > > habits, but mine don't > > > > seem > > > > > to have any problem with that so far, will have > > > to see how they act > > > > alone. > > > > > > > > > > Amber > > > > > > > > > > bill 1433 wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Amber, > > > > > > > > > > > > If you hit those Angels at a wrong time the > > > life-expediency of > > > > > > those Tetra's will be about 5 minutes! Once > > > you give the fish > > > their > > > > > > own tank, best leave it that way and save on > > > your tetra pennies! > > > > > > > > > > > > Bill > **************Download the AOL Classifieds Toolbar for local deals at your fingertips. (http://toolbar.aol.com/aolclassifieds/download.html?ncid=emlcntusdown00000004) [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 41071	From: Jpateson@aol.com	Date: 6/19/2009
Subject: Re: Ugh, now I no longer have any rams left :(

Amber, The Krib's found a hole in some of the driftwood, she deposited her eggs and, well, he did the rest... Jim In a message dated 6/19/2009 9:14:19 P.M. Central Daylight Time, amber@... writes: I have been watching videos of them on youtube and they are definitely interesting to watch guard their fry. My only worry is just how much does the male dig? Mongabay says that the males dig in the substrate when they start spawning. Amber _Jpateson@..._ (mailto:Jpateson@...) wrote: > > > Amber, > > That is why I enjoy the Kribs', they flutter around and are just > interesting to watch.. > > Jim > > > In a message dated 6/19/2009 4:23:41 P.M. Central Daylight Time, > _amber@..._ (mailto:amber@...) <mailto:amber%mailto:amber%mai> writes: > > If they aren't as bad as Angel's then I may consider them ;) > Ram's are fairly docile most of the time, but they do some chasing if > they have a territory they want to claim, but they don't tend to chase > other fish much, mostly just other rams. I started with 3, one died > right away to ich and I'm pretty sure the red tailed catfish ate one, > and this last one was found unharmed looking but very dead on the bottom > of the tank :( > I enjoy watching them because they like to flutter in place when they > see something interesting in the tank. > > Amber > > __Jpateson@aol._Jp_ (mailto:_Jpateson@...) <mailto:_Jpateson%mailto:_J><W > (mailto:_Jpateson@..._ (mailto:Jpateson@...) <mailto:Jpateson%mailto:Jp><WBR>) w > > > > > > Amber, > > > > I'm thinking about getting some Rams, but I don't know how they get > along > > with other fish. The Kribs will "control" whatever part of the tank the > > babies are in, other than that they are good fish for a community > tank.... > > > > Jim > > > > > > In a message dated 6/19/2009 11:56:53 A.M. Central Daylight Time, > > __amber@rose-_amber@ros_ (mailto:_amber@...) <mailto:_amber%mailto:_amber%mai>_ > (mailto:_amber@..._ (mailto:amber@...) <mailto:amber%mailto:amber%mai>) > <mailto:amber%mailto:amber%mai> writes: > > > > Are they albino Kribs? hehe. > > And I have a fed ex account, I can ship it discounted that way, that's > > how I get my "cool" fish now days ;) > > I prefer the rams myself (I think they're prettier), how territorial do > > the Kribensis' get? > > I plan on picking up more rams when I can afford them though. > > > > Amber > > > > Jim Pat. wrote: > > > > > > > > > Amber, > > > > > > Want any Krib's? My male/female have been busy, from the first bunch I > > > have ~20 the size of neons and the new bunch is around 35. It's > > > interesting how they "seperate" the other fish from their new > > > batch.....If it wasn't so expensive to get them to Alaska I would send > > > you 10 or 15.... So far I haven't found a local fish store that wants > > > them... > > > > > > JIm > > > > > > --- In _AquaticLife@ --- In _Aqu --- > > (mailto:_AquaticLif (mailto:_ > (mailto:_AquaticLife@AquaticLife@Aqu_ (mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com) > <mailto:AquaticLifemailto:AquaticLmai>) > > <mailto:AquaticLifemailto:AquaticLima>) > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLifemailto:AquaticLima>, Amber Berglund <amber@...> > > wrote: > > > > > > > > Found my last ram dead this evening, I'm pretty sure it was the > > Angel's > > > > fault. They've gone into spawning again and are nasty little > > buggers. I > > > > was messing with the Rena xp4 and the male nipped me quite good, > > > shocked > > > > me because I wasn't looking and didn't expect it, when I jerked my > arm > > > > out of the tank I scared Spike (my severum) and he ran into hiding, > > LOL. > > > > I urged the hubby to finish welding my stand together so I can > set up > > > > the 55 gallon for the Angel's, I already have their cycled media > > in the > > > > Rena Xp 4 waiting to be transfered into the other filter that came > > with > > > > the 55 gallon. Getting tired of them picking on all of the other > fish, > > > > I'm sure everyone will be glad when they go ;) > > > > I think I know what I'm going to be ordering next on my fish order > > > > (Rams, and I think I want to get some german ones this time so I can > > > see > > > > what they really look like in person, all the pictures seem to look > so > > > > similar between the bolivian's and the german blue rams). > > > > > > > > Amber > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ************ ************<WBR>**Download the AOL Classifieds Toolbar f > > your > > fingertips. > > > (__http://toolbar.http://toolbar.http://toolbar.http://toolbar.http://toohttp:_ (http://toolbar.http//toolbar.http://toolb ar.http://toohttp://toolbar.http_) > <_http://toolbar.http://toolbar.http://toolbar.http://toolbar.http://toohttp:_ (http://toolbar.http//toolbar.http://toolbar.http://toohttp://toolbar.http_) > > > (_http://toolbar.http://toolbar.http://toolbar.http://toohttp://toolbar.http_ (http://toolbar.aol.com/aolclassifieds/download.html?ncid=emlcntusdown00000004) > <_http://toolbar.http://toolbar.http://toolbar.http://toohttp://toolbar.http_ (http://toolbar.aol.com/aolclassifieds/download.html?ncid=emlcntusdown00000004) >) > > > > <__http://toolbar.http://toolbar.http://toolbar.http://toolbar.http://toohttp:_ (http://toolbar.http//toolbar.http://toolbar.http://toohttp://toolbar.http_) > <_http://toolbar.http://toolbar.http://toolbar.http://toolbar.http://toohttp:_ (http://toolbar.http//toolbar.http://toolbar.http://toohttp://toolbar.http_) > > > (_http://toolbar.http://toolbar.http://toolbar.http://toohttp://toolbar.http_ (http://toolbar.aol.com/aolclassifieds/download.html?ncid=emlcntusdown00000004) > <_http://toolbar.http://toolbar.http://toolbar.http://toohttp://toolbar.http_ (http://toolbar.aol.com/aolclassifieds/download.html?ncid=emlcntusdown00000004) >) > >) > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > > > ************ ************<WBR>**Download the AOL Classifieds Toolbar f > your > fingertips. > (_http://toolbar.http://toolbar.http://toolbar.http://toohttp://toolbar.http_ (http://toolbar.aol.com/aolclassifieds/download.html?ncid=emlcntusdown00000004) > <_http://toolbar.http://toolbar.http://toolbar.http://toohttp://toolbar.http_ (http://toolbar.aol.com/aolclassifieds/download.html?ncid=emlcntusdown00000004) >) > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > **************Download the AOL Classifieds Toolbar for local deals at your fingertips. (http://toolbar.aol.com/aolclassifieds/download.html?ncid=emlcntusdown00000004) [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 41072	From: Rodrigues Gilbert	Date: 6/19/2009
Subject: Re: Sexing AngelFish? (now a possible Coup D'etat!)

Hey guys I consider myself well seasoned and somewhat well rounded?  LOL :) [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 41073	From: replenissh37	Date: 6/19/2009
Subject: IN response to Algae verses plants

In real ecosystems with plants of different species all the nutrients that are found in live plants get recycled when they die and are available to the other living things again: the sugars and cellulose are all broken down into monomers. As far as Algae outcompeting plants for nutriets and Plants growing in an aquirium, the aquirium is not a perfect ecosystem. Plants are Algae are both photosynthetic and use CO2, minerals, fixed nitrogen and sunlight to grow and thrive in the production of new leaves, or more single cells in there body" and this is a way for new growth. As far as the issue of whether plants will outdo algae to the point of no algea growth...the algea need fixd nitrogen to grow. The algea need the sunlight, co2 and some minerals to grow. The plants and algae secure these energy and matterials from the water and environment of the fish tank. And so they probably will get these inorganic materials and use them to grow as long as they are available. In the fecal matter of the fish there is nitrogen available for the plants and algae. And these are going to be available and resupplied over time. I believe that the CO2 is going to be supplied constantly too. I believe that the oxygen or the mineral potassium is needed also. and this is found in traces in water , the fresh water of the tank. So there is going to be a supply of potassium, nitrogen, sunlight water of course, CO2 and also the Nitrogen that is suppplied and then utilized by the algae and plants and then resupplied. And so they will not kill one another off. The Plants will not kill off the Algea, but will grow and they wiell will grow and use the requrements to grow along with or at the same time the algae are using these requirements. THey will grow and use these and in time reduce the levels of these re quirements to grow. And as they are depleted they will weaken and not grow as much as they are used and will not grow as fast. But they all are going to be resuupplied and made available to the plants and the algae. And as they are used up and then resupplied to the plants and algae through water changes, and fish feces, there will be a level sufficient to support both the algae and the plants. The plants will use up some of the minerals and nitrogent for thier growth whiel the algae eill use up some of the minerals and nitrogen for thier growth. So one is not going to outcompete the other and eliminate the other. Plants will not kill off the algae. But they may reduce the level of growth of the algae to some degree, but it won't kill off the algae. As far as killing one algae colony off, I think they will both coexist. And this is the case in ecosystems found in nature in the natural ecosystems both plants , living in water and algae coexists. Because you want to have plants not algae, I would suggest getting some algae eaters. Again, your fish tank does not recycle all the minerals, and nitrogen and CO2 and sunligh completely, but since they or even though they are partially lost, they are resupplied and refurnished" by water changes and the fish eating and "producing feces." These are supplied in adequate amounts for both the algae and water plants to grow and survive. So get some algae eaters and moving your aquarium out of direct sunlight could reduce the algae, and also will lessen the light for water plants, but that may not help the plants. Being in lower light might not improve the plants growth unless you find some plants that can grow in low light. So if you would get some algae eaters, reduce the sunlight that hits the tank, and find some low light requirement water plants, this is probably the only solution because there will always be enough nitrogen and other metabolic requirements available to both the water plants and algae, because of water changes, and live fish growth.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 41074	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 6/20/2009
Subject: Re: Sexing AngelFish? (now a possible Coup D'etat!)

If I had a nickel for every time someone told me to grow up . . . \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Jpateson@... Sent: Friday, June 19, 2009 10:53 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: Sexing AngelFish? (now a possible Coup D'etat!) Steve, I consider myself a young man trapped in an old man's body..... :) Jim In a message dated 6/19/2009 9:15:04 P.M. Central Daylight Time, steve@... writes: Ray, Just remember, Growing old is mandatory, growing up is not. \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: _AquaticLife@AquaticLife@Aqu_ (mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com) [mailto:_AquaticLife@AquaticLife@Aqu_ (mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com) ] On Behalf Of Raymond Wetzel Sent: Friday, June 19, 2009 4:02 PM To: _AquaticLife@AquaticLife@Aqu_ (mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com) Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Sexing AngelFish? (now a possible Coup D'etat!) Nope, No G-ard. Yes, Latin from Shakespeare'Nope, No G-ard. Yes, Latin from Shakespeare'<WBR>s Julius Caesar; a common expression literally meaning -- "and you, Brutus?" As if to say, is Bill joining you in the d Not yet sure if we should take offense to that, since it's bad enough that we're being referred to as "old fogeys". Come to think of it, I guess there's some truth to that -- LOL. Ray --- In _AquaticLife@AquaticLife@Aqu_ (mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com) , "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@.Go> wrote: > > Uh Oh... did G-rard show back up? > > Ooops.. never mind, a quick Google found that "Et Tu, Brute'" is not French, > but rather Latin. _http://en.wikipediahttp://en.http://en.wikht_ (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Et_tu,_Brute?) > > It still sounded French to me though! LOL > > How does this work into this thread though??? Wiki says, in part, that Et > Tu Brute' was "Immortalized by Shakespeare' Tu Brute' was "Immortalized by Shake > widely used in Western culture as an epitome of betrayal." > > Has one of the "grumpy old men" committed a betrayal... better yet, perhaps > they are planning a Coup d'etat? Uh Oh, there's that French sounding stuff > again... but at least this time, it really is French. ;-) > _http://en.wikipediahttp://en.http:/_ (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Coup_d) 'etat > > Stay tuned for late breaking news! LOL > > Oh yeah... as a disclaimer, while I might use Wikipedia for stuff like the > above references, it's not usually the most reliable source of information > as anyone can edit a Wikipedia article and add bad information and it will > stay with that bad information until someone else comes along and finds and > fixes the bad information in the article. I could spend my whole life going > through Wikipedia articles fixing mistakes.. but who has time for that. > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - _http://GoldLenny.http://Gohtt_ (http://goldlenny.blogspot.com/) > (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right > side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) > > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: _AquaticLife@AquaticLife@Aqu_ (mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com) [mailto:_AquaticLife@AquaticLife@Aqu_ (mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com) ] On > Behalf Of Raymond Wetzel > Sent: Friday, June 19, 2009 10:52 AM > To: _AquaticLife@AquaticLife@Aqu_ (mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com) > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Sexing AngelFish? > > Et Tu, Brute'? LOL, LOL, LOL, Ray > > > > --- In _AquaticLife@AquaticLife@Aqu_ (mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com) , bill 1433 <warrenprint@> wrote: > > > > > > Lenny, > > > > In a small way, being a member of this "club", I believe both references > are entirely accurate! > > > > ol'bill > > > > --- On Thu, 6/18/09, Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@> wrote: > > > > > From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@> > > > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: Sexing AngelFish? > > > To: _AquaticLife@AquaticLife@Aqu_ (mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com) > > > Date: Thursday, June 18, 2009, 11:41 PM > > > > > > \\Steve//, > > > > > > Did you mean "old fogeys" or "grumpy old men"? > > > > > > LOL > > > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > > Fish Blog - _http://GoldLenny.http://Gohtt_ (http://goldlenny.blogspot.com/) (Links to any articles > > > referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, > > > alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) > > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > From: _AquaticLife@AquaticLife@Aqu_ (mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com) > > > [mailto:_AquaticLife@AquaticLife@Aqu_ (mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com) ] > > > On > > > Behalf Of Steve Szabo > > > Sent: Thursday, June 18, 2009 10:08 PM > > > To: _AquaticLife@AquaticLife@Aqu_ (mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com) > > > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: Sexing AngelFish? > > > > > > Amber, > > > > > > As you become more experienced, you will learn to be more > > > discriminating with information you find on the web, in published > > > articles, and even in books, especially when it goes against your > > > personal experience. > > > > > > Ray is really a nice guy, he really is. He simply wanted a reference > > > to the material you were passing along so he could check it out > > > himself. > > > The problem is that written communication does not always come > > > across as you mean it to. Since I do know Ray (us old fogeys in the > > > hobby need to stick together), I can read the message as he probably > > > meant it., instead of reading it verbatim as you have. You need to > > > learn to take what is said in e-mail with a little grain of salt > > > rather than taking offense immediately. > > > If ray meant to cut you down, believe me, you would have known it. > > > > > > \\Steve// > > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > From: _AquaticLife@AquaticLife@Aqu_ (mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com) > > > [mailto:_AquaticLife@AquaticLife@Aqu_ (mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com) ] > > > On Behalf Of Amber Berglund > > > Sent: Thursday, June 18, 2009 9:46 PM > > > To: _AquaticLife@AquaticLife@Aqu_ (mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com) > > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: Sexing AngelFish? > > > > > > I don't hold onto all the links I read like Lenny does, so I have no > > > idea what breeder site on Angel's I read that on. > > > I don't mind being corrected Ray, but sometimes I wish you weren't > > > quite > > > > > > so mean about it sometimes, I didn't see you offering him any help > > > on getting his Angel's to breed and I was doing my best with what > > > info I have read on them, and since I have no problems getting mine > > > to spawn I was trying to pass on tips that I had read elsewhere. > > > If I was writing a paper on breeding Angel's then I could understand > > > asking for all of my sources and page info but I'm just trying to > > > help someone out with the info that I had found when I was > > > researching. > > > Guess > > > > > > I will just stick to the info that I personally have experienced > > > since I > > > > > > seem to be wrong so often when I try to pass on info that I've read. > > > > > > Amber > > > > > > Raymond Wetzel wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > NO, Not So! I don't know where you read that, but I > > > wonder if perhaps > > > > you misread it, If not, whoever wrote that is wrong, > > > other fish in the > > > > > > > tank WILL NOT induce any Angelfish to spawn. Could you > > > please tell me > > > > where you read this? I would tend to doubt that it > > > woyuld be in any > > > > well-penned book, as this kind of erroneous info has a > > > way of getting > > > > itself known as such as it spreads throughout the > > > hobby. I did notice > > > > that you advised James of this; just another case of > > > you can't believe > > > > > > > all you read. If it was on a web site, I can > > > understand that -- no one > > > > > > > should put complete faith in everything they read up > > > there, and pass > > > > it along, without knowing if it's true. > > > > > > > > Tetras, or any other small fish, when put with a > > > breeding pair of any > > > > species of substrate-sawning Cichlids are intended to > > > draw the > > > > attention of either one of the more aggressive > > > partners of the pair > > > > away from the other partner so that the least > > > aggressive partner does > > > > not take the full aggression of the more overbearing > > > one. > > > > > > > > They (these "dither fish") act to initiate the > > > territorial behavior of > > > > > > > both partners of the breesding pair so that they act > > > in symphony with > > > > each other towards one goal -- to keep the intruders > > > out of the > > > > breeding area. In this way, attention is drawn to > > > these dither fish, > > > > rather than each other. The pair is more apt to act in > > > harmony rather > > > > than one beating up on the other. This methods of > > > using dither fish is > > > > > > > usually reserved for much more aggressive Cichlids. > > > Most Angelfish > > > > pairs do not need dither fish with them, nor will > > > these dither fish > > > > induce their spawning. They will spawn when they want > > > to spawn. Most > > > > good young pairs will spawn every eight days once they > > > start spawning, > > > > > > > when allowed (when you pull the slate, to set their > > > breeding cycle > > > > going again). They will taper off after about 2 1/2 > > > years of age (they > > > > > > > will start spawning between 7 and 8 months, usually > > > closer to 9 > > > > months). Ray > > > > > > > > ---In _AquaticLife@AquaticLife@Aqu_ (mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com) > > > > <mailto:AquaticLifemailto:AquaticLmai>, Amber > > > Berglund <amber@> > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > I've read from some breeders that some Angelfish > > > need activity in > > > the > > > > > tank from other fish to help induce breeding > > > habits, but mine don't > > > > seem > > > > > to have any problem with that so far, will have > > > to see how they act > > > > alone. > > > > > > > > > > Amber > > > > > > > > > > bill 1433 wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Amber, > > > > > > > > > > > > If you hit those Angels at a wrong time the > > > life-expediency of > > > > > > those Tetra's will be about 5 minutes! Once > > > you give the fish > > > their > > > > > > own tank, best leave it that way and save on > > > your tetra pennies! > > > > > > > > > > > > Bill > ------------------------------------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the home page. Or e-mail _aquaticlife-aquaticlife-<WBRaquati_ (mailto:aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com) to receive the digest, which includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email Or email _aquaticlife-aquaticlife-<WBRaquati_ (mailto:aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com) for the No E-Mail option where you will still be able to read messages on the group and post replies. Or email _aquaticlife-aquaticlife-<WBRaquati_ (mailto:aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com) to receive individual e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links **************Download the AOL Classifieds Toolbar for local deals at your fingertips. (http://toolbar.aol.com/aolclassifieds/download.html?ncid=emlcntusdown00000004) [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] ------------------------------------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the home page. Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com to receive the digest, which includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com for the No E-Mail option where you will still be able to read messages on the group and post replies. Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com to receive individual e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 41075	From: ladyjadewindrunner	Date: 6/20/2009
Subject: Re: Hello!!

Oh that's not too bad. Are they any particular breed? I'm kind of in love with the halfblack angels lol. But the cheapest I've found them is $40 for 4 =( --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, pam andress <pamandress23@...> wrote: > > > Oh thats not that far. lol Only about 1-1 1/2 hrs away. The guy I know with the angels is in Knox. He sells them very cheap. I think when I took some friends there, it was about 3 bucks for quarter size. > > > > Pam > > > > > > > > > Pam - I live a good little bit from you out in Lake Station, kinda by Gary/Hobart. But I'm always good to hear about cheap angels! lol. > > > > > > > Recent Activity > > > 12 > New Members > > 23 > New PhotosVisit Your Group > > > > Sitebuilder > Build a web site > > quickly & easily > > with Sitebuilder. > > > Yahoo! Groups > Mom Power > > Just for moms > > Join the discussion > > > > They fight > For our freedom > > Support their kids > > Fund learning > > . > > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 41076	From: ladyjadewindrunner	Date: 6/20/2009
Subject: Re: IN response to Algae verses plants

Wow, great information! Thank you :D! I have a good bit of algae in my aquarium even though it's far from the window, due to my bulb that's meant for growing plants (high K rating). I had an algae eater but as it turned out, the algae stopped growing just long enough that even with supplements he wound up dying. I think that may have been due to a disease of some sort, as he really liked the food I put in for him (zucchini and some algae tablets). I intend on getting another one soon though. --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "replenissh37" <replenissh37@...> wrote: > > In real ecosystems with plants of different species all the > nutrients that are found in live plants get recycled when they die > and are available to the other living things again: the sugars and > cellulose are all broken down into monomers. > As far as Algae outcompeting plants for nutriets and Plants growing > in an aquirium, the aquirium is not a perfect ecosystem. Plants are Algae are both photosynthetic and use CO2, minerals, fixed nitrogen and sunlight to grow and thrive in the production of new leaves, or more > single cells in there body" and this is a way for new growth. > As far as the issue of whether plants will outdo algae to the point of no algea growth...the algea need fixd nitrogen to grow. The algea need the sunlight, co2 and some minerals to grow. The plants and algae secure these energy and matterials from the water and environment of the fish tank. And so they probably will get these inorganic materials and use them to grow as long as they are available. In the fecal matter > of the fish there is nitrogen available for the plants and algae. And these are going to be available and resupplied over time. I believe that the CO2 is going to be supplied constantly too. I believe that the oxygen or the mineral potassium is needed also. and this is found in traces in water , the fresh water of the tank. > So there is going to be a supply of potassium, nitrogen, sunlight > water of course, CO2 and also the Nitrogen that is suppplied and then utilized by the algae and plants and then resupplied. And so they will not kill one another off. The Plants will not kill off the Algea, but will grow and they wiell will grow and use the requrements to grow along with or at the same time the algae are using these requirements. > THey will grow and use these and in time reduce the levels of these re > quirements to grow. And as they are depleted they will weaken and not grow as much as they are used and will not grow as fast. > But they all are going to be resuupplied and made available to the > plants and the algae. And as they are used up and then resupplied to the > plants and algae through water changes, and fish feces, there will be > a level sufficient to support both the algae and the plants. The > plants will use up some of the minerals and nitrogent for thier growth > whiel the algae eill use up some of the minerals and nitrogen for > thier growth. > So one is not going to outcompete the other and eliminate the other. > Plants will not kill off the algae. But they may reduce the level of > growth of the algae to some degree, but it won't kill off the algae. > As far as killing one algae colony off, I think they will both > coexist. And this is the case in ecosystems found in nature in the natural ecosystems both plants , living in water and algae coexists. > Because you want to have plants not algae, I would suggest getting > some algae eaters. > Again, your fish tank does not recycle all the minerals, and nitrogen and CO2 and sunligh completely, but since they or even though they are > partially lost, they are resupplied and refurnished" by water changes > and the fish eating and "producing feces." These are supplied in > adequate amounts for both the algae and water plants to grow and > survive. > So get some algae eaters and moving your aquarium out of direct > sunlight could reduce the algae, and also will lessen the light for > water plants, but that may not help the plants. Being in lower light > might not improve the plants growth unless you find some plants that > can grow in low light. > So if you would get some algae eaters, reduce the sunlight that hits the tank, and find some low light requirement water plants, this is probably the only solution because there will always be enough nitrogen and other metabolic requirements available to both the water plants and algae, because of water changes, and live fish growth. >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 41077	From: Donna Ransome	Date: 6/20/2009
Subject: Re: IN response to Algae verses plants

I think I read the post correctly to say that plants will not outcompete algae in a tank? I have found this to be true and untrue. True in that fast growing plants will outcompete at least certain types of algae in a tank (like the soft green flowing algae that grows on the glass). But only fast-growing plants. In my tank, that was vallisneria. It eliminated the nitrates (I have no measurable phosphates) and kept that soft, green algae from the glass and from growing on the leaves of my slower growing crypts. Not true in that I did have algae but it was a different type. Tiny hard green dots on the glass and hair algae on background and substrate. This was less conspicuous and easier to control however. I definitely recommend adding lots of fast growing plants to outcompete algae. I’m told if I add nitrate to maintain 10ppm I can also control the hair algae. My Vallisneria was wiped out by voracious snails. I have just replanted and hoping to achieve the balance I had before, and try keeping the nitrate at 10ppm. Actually I thought it was kind of cool I planted the Vallisneria one week, and the very next week I had a new runner with a 5” plant next to the mother plant. Now THAT’s fast growing! I had pulled off all the runners when I planted them. _____ From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of ladyjadewindrunner Sent: Saturday, June 20, 2009 4:31 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: IN response to Algae verses plants Wow, great information! Thank you :D! I have a good bit of algae in my aquarium even though it's far from the window, due to my bulb that's meant for growing plants (high K rating). I had an algae eater but as it turned out, the algae stopped growing just long enough that even with supplements he wound up dying. I think that may have been due to a disease of some sort, as he really liked the food I put in for him (zucchini and some algae tablets). I intend on getting another one soon though. --- In AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com, "replenissh37" <replenissh37@...> wrote: > > In real ecosystems with plants of different species all the > nutrients that are found in live plants get recycled when they die > and are available to the other living things again: the sugars and > cellulose are all broken down into monomers. > As far as Algae outcompeting plants for nutriets and Plants growing > in an aquirium, the aquirium is not a perfect ecosystem. Plants are Algae are both photosynthetic and use CO2, minerals, fixed nitrogen and sunlight to grow and thrive in the production of new leaves, or more > single cells in there body" and this is a way for new growth. > As far as the issue of whether plants will outdo algae to the point of no algea growth...the algea need fixd nitrogen to grow. The algea need the sunlight, co2 and some minerals to grow. The plants and algae secure these energy and matterials from the water and environment of the fish tank. And so they probably will get these inorganic materials and use them to grow as long as they are available. In the fecal matter > of the fish there is nitrogen available for the plants and algae. And these are going to be available and resupplied over time. I believe that the CO2 is going to be supplied constantly too. I believe that the oxygen or the mineral potassium is needed also. and this is found in traces in water , the fresh water of the tank. > So there is going to be a supply of potassium, nitrogen, sunlight > water of course, CO2 and also the Nitrogen that is suppplied and then utilized by the algae and plants and then resupplied. And so they will not kill one another off. The Plants will not kill off the Algea, but will grow and they wiell will grow and use the requrements to grow along with or at the same time the algae are using these requirements. > THey will grow and use these and in time reduce the levels of these re > quirements to grow. And as they are depleted they will weaken and not grow as much as they are used and will not grow as fast. > But they all are going to be resuupplied and made available to the > plants and the algae. And as they are used up and then resupplied to the > plants and algae through water changes, and fish feces, there will be > a level sufficient to support both the algae and the plants. The > plants will use up some of the minerals and nitrogent for thier growth > whiel the algae eill use up some of the minerals and nitrogen for > thier growth. > So one is not going to outcompete the other and eliminate the other. > Plants will not kill off the algae. But they may reduce the level of > growth of the algae to some degree, but it won't kill off the algae. > As far as killing one algae colony off, I think they will both > coexist. And this is the case in ecosystems found in nature in the natural ecosystems both plants , living in water and algae coexists. > Because you want to have plants not algae, I would suggest getting > some algae eaters. > Again, your fish tank does not recycle all the minerals, and nitrogen and CO2 and sunligh completely, but since they or even though they are > partially lost, they are resupplied and refurnished" by water changes > and the fish eating and "producing feces." These are supplied in > adequate amounts for both the algae and water plants to grow and > survive. > So get some algae eaters and moving your aquarium out of direct > sunlight could reduce the algae, and also will lessen the light for > water plants, but that may not help the plants. Being in lower light > might not improve the plants growth unless you find some plants that > can grow in low light. > So if you would get some algae eaters, reduce the sunlight that hits the tank, and find some low light requirement water plants, this is probably the only solution because there will always be enough nitrogen and other metabolic requirements available to both the water plants and algae, because of water changes, and live fish growth. > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 41078	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 6/20/2009
Subject: Re: Gonna sound like a dumb question.

I've heard that about you after a Saturday night. \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Lenny V. aka GoldLenny Sent: Friday, June 19, 2009 1:06 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Gonna sound like a dumb question. I know I replied to this thread and included a couple of links. Am I now "Shakey"? Hmmm.. it does sound like a cool nickname even if done by accident. I might have to change it to GoldShakey first so folks will recognize me and then eventually drop the Gold until I'm just known as Shakey. If someone else out here is Shakey, I apologize. ;-) Lenny Vasbinder aka Goldlenny and soon to be known as Shakey! LOL Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Robert Mazur Sent: Friday, June 19, 2009 10:30 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Gonna sound like a dumb question. Steve: I'm in Schweinfurt, which is north (I think) of Mannheim by about an hour. I am currently back Stateside for school and won't return untl September, but I'm starting to scope everything out. Shakey -- Thanks for the advice. I am going to look at those sites over the weekend while I'm recovering from today's 5 mile run. :). Rob On Thu, Jun 18, 2009 at 11:25 PM, Steve Szabo <steve@...> wrote: > > > Rob, > > The price does seem high to me also, but, then again, I am not real > familiar with European pricing. > > Where are you located? I do have an acquaintance who is German, and > lives in Germany (imagine that, a German in Germany) and can e-mail > him to see if he is close to you and able to give some advice for your > area. When I travel, I hit the phone book to find shops in an area > that I may be staying, and while the shops may not be that good, it > does give me a chance to check them out and see what fish are being > carried. In Germany, you may see a lot of fish you are not familiar > with from your experience on this side of the ocean, and you are > likely to see higher quality fish, and commensurately higher prices. > Europeans seem to want to pay for quality, unlike most Americans. > > A for how long fish live, it depends on the fish. For instance, koi > can live to be well over 100 years old, where your betta's life span > may only be > 3-4 years. There are fish (annual killifish) that at a year old are > very old fish, while there are a number where at 25 years, they are still young. > > \\Steve// > > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> [mailto: > AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On Behalf > Of Robert Mazur > Sent: Thursday, June 18, 2009 4:07 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Subject: [AquaticLife] Gonna sound like a dumb question. > > This is going to sound like a really dumb, n00bie question, but is $70 > for a > 5 gallon tank with all the accessories (hood, light, filter) an > appropriate > > price? The reason that I ask is I am stationed in Germany now and left > my betta in the care of a friend of mine. I left the 1.5 gallon tank > behind too. My daughter is wanting fish again and at a local store I > saw a 20L > (5.2 US Gal) tank for â'¬49.95 (Euro) which is roughly $70 (give or > take, depending on the conversion rate). > > Also, what sorts of fish get along in that size tank? And the other > question is, how long do fish usually live? Lastly, how would I go > about finding an aquatic shop in Germany? Anyone on this list in > Europe and can shed some light on the subject. > > Thanks! > > Rob > > -- > http://www.pbase.com/mazurgallery/ > http://themazurplace.blogspot.com/ > http://www.flickr.com/photos/rpmazur/ > http://s19.photobucket.com/albums/b185/rpmazur/ > > There are people who make things happen, there are people who watch > things happen, and there are people who wonder what happened. To be > successful, you need to be a person who makes things happen.. > James A. Lovell ------------------------------------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the home page. Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com to receive the digest, which includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com for the No E-Mail option where you will still be able to read messages on the group and post replies. Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com to receive individual e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 41079	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 6/20/2009
Subject: Re: Gonna sound like a dumb question.

Mind if I pass along your e-mail address so that the two of you can talk directly? \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Robert Mazur Sent: Friday, June 19, 2009 11:30 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Gonna sound like a dumb question. Steve: I'm in Schweinfurt, which is north (I think) of Mannheim by about an hour. I am currently back Stateside for school and won't return untl September, but I'm starting to scope everything out. Shakey -- Thanks for the advice. I am going to look at those sites over the weekend while I'm recovering from today's 5 mile run. :). Rob On Thu, Jun 18, 2009 at 11:25 PM, Steve Szabo <steve@...> wrote: > > > Rob, > > The price does seem high to me also, but, then again, I am not real > familiar with European pricing. > > Where are you located? I do have an acquaintance who is German, and lives > in Germany (imagine that, a German in Germany) and can e-mail him to see if > he is close to you and able to give some advice for your area. When I > travel, I hit the phone book to find shops in an area that I may be staying, > and while the shops may not be that good, it does give me a chance to check > them out and see what fish are being carried. In Germany, you may see a lot > of fish you are not familiar with from your experience on this side of the > ocean, and you are likely to see higher quality fish, and commensurately > higher prices. Europeans seem to want to pay for quality, unlike most > Americans. > > A for how long fish live, it depends on the fish. For instance, koi can > live to be well over 100 years old, where your betta's life span may only be > 3-4 years. There are fish (annual killifish) that at a year old are very old > fish, while there are a number where at 25 years, they are still young. > > \\Steve// > > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> [mailto: > AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On Behalf Of > Robert Mazur > Sent: Thursday, June 18, 2009 4:07 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Subject: [AquaticLife] Gonna sound like a dumb question. > > This is going to sound like a really dumb, n00bie question, but is $70 for > a > 5 gallon tank with all the accessories (hood, light, filter) an appropriate > > price? The reason that I ask is I am stationed in Germany now and left my > betta in the care of a friend of mine. I left the 1.5 gallon tank behind > too. My daughter is wanting fish again and at a local store I saw a 20L > (5.2 US Gal) tank for â'¬49.95 (Euro) which is roughly $70 (give or take, > depending on the conversion rate). > > Also, what sorts of fish get along in that size tank? And the other > question is, how long do fish usually live? Lastly, how would I go about > finding an aquatic shop in Germany? Anyone on this list in Europe and can > shed some light on the subject. > > Thanks! > > Rob > > -- > http://www.pbase.com/mazurgallery/ > http://themazurplace.blogspot.com/ > http://www.flickr.com/photos/rpmazur/ > http://s19.photobucket.com/albums/b185/rpmazur/ > > There are people who make things happen, there are people who watch things > happen, and there are people who wonder what happened. To be successful, > you > need to be a person who makes things happen.. > James A. Lovell > > > -- http://www.pbase.com/mazurgallery/ http://themazurplace.blogspot.com/ http://www.flickr.com/photos/rpmazur/ http://s19.photobucket.com/albums/b185/rpmazur/ There are people who make things happen, there are people who watch things happen, and there are people who wonder what happened. To be successful, you need to be a person who makes things happen.. James A. Lovell [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] ------------------------------------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the home page. Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com to receive the digest, which includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com for the No E-Mail option where you will still be able to read messages on the group and post replies. Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com to receive individual e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 41080	From: bill 1433	Date: 6/20/2009
Subject: Re: Sexing AngelFish? (now a possible Coup D'etat!)

I'm in with this one but I just consider it a "work in progress" type of thing! ol' bill --- On Sat, 6/20/09, Steve Szabo <steve@...> wrote: > From: Steve Szabo <steve@...> > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: Sexing AngelFish? (now a possible Coup D'etat!) > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Date: Saturday, June 20, 2009, 6:05 AM > If I had a nickel for every time > someone told me to grow up . . . > > \\Steve// > > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] > On Behalf Of Jpateson@... > Sent: Friday, June 19, 2009 10:53 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: Sexing AngelFish? (now a > possible Coup D'etat!) > > Steve, > > I consider myself a young man trapped in an old man's > body..... :) > > Jim > > > In a message dated 6/19/2009 9:15:04 P.M. Central Daylight > Time,  > steve@... > writes: > > > > > > Ray, > > Just remember, Growing old is mandatory, growing up > is  not. > > \\Steve// > > -----Original Message----- > From: _AquaticLife@AquaticLife@Aqu_ (mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com)    > [mailto:_AquaticLife@AquaticLife@Aqu_ (mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com) > ] > On Behalf Of Raymond Wetzel > Sent: Friday, June 19, 2009 4:02 PM > To: _AquaticLife@AquaticLife@Aqu_ (mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com) > > Subject:  [AquaticLife] Re: Sexing AngelFish? (now a > possible Coup D'etat!) > > Nope,  No G-ard. Yes, Latin from > Shakespeare'Nope,  No G-ard. Yes, Latin > from Shakespeare'<WBR>s Julius Caesar; a common  > expression literally meaning > -- "and you, Brutus?" As if to say, is Bill  joining > you in the d > > Not yet sure if we should take offense to that, since it's > bad  enough that > we're being referred to as "old fogeys". Come to think of > it, I  guess > there's some truth to that -- LOL. Ray > > --- In _AquaticLife@AquaticLife@Aqu_ (mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com) > , > "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@.Go> wrote: > > > > Uh  Oh... did G-rard show back up? > > > > Ooops.. never mind, a quick  Google found that > "Et Tu, Brute'" is not > French, > > but rather Latin. _http://en.wikipediahttp://en.http://en.wikht_ > (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Et_tu,_Brute?)    > > > > It still sounded French to me though! LOL > > > >  How does this work into this thread though??? > Wiki says, in part, that  > Et > > Tu Brute' was "Immortalized by Shakespeare' Tu Brute' > was "Immortalized > by Shake > > widely used in Western culture as an epitome of  > betrayal." > > > > Has one of the "grumpy old men" committed a  > betrayal... better yet, > perhaps > > they are planning a Coup d'etat? Uh  Oh, there's > that French sounding > stuff > > again... but at least this  time, it really is > French. ;-) > > _http://en.wikipediahttp://en.http:/_ > (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Coup_d) > 'etat > >  > > Stay tuned for late breaking news! LOL > > > > Oh yeah... as  a disclaimer, while I might use > Wikipedia for stuff like > the > > above  references, it's not usually the most > reliable source of > information > >  as anyone can edit a Wikipedia article and add > bad information and it  > will > > stay with that bad information until someone else > comes along and  finds > and > > fixes the bad information in the article. I could > spend my  whole life > going > > through Wikipedia articles fixing mistakes.. but > who  has time for that. > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > Fish Blog - _http://GoldLenny.http://Gohtt_ > (http://goldlenny.blogspot.com/) > >  (Links to any articles referenced in above reply > are listed on the  right > > side, alphabetically under Labels and also under > Archives by  Year, Month) > > > > > > > > > > -----Original  Message----- > > From: _AquaticLife@AquaticLife@Aqu_ (mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com)  > > [mailto:_AquaticLife@AquaticLife@Aqu_ (mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com) > > ]  On > > Behalf Of Raymond Wetzel > > Sent: Friday, June 19, 2009 10:52  AM > > To: _AquaticLife@AquaticLife@Aqu_ (mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com) > > >  Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Sexing AngelFish? > > > > Et Tu, Brute'?  LOL, LOL, LOL, Ray > > > > > > > > --- In _AquaticLife@AquaticLife@Aqu_ (mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com) > > ,  bill 1433 <warrenprint@> wrote: > > > > > > > >  > Lenny, > > > > > > In a small way, being a member of this  > "club", I believe both > references > > are entirely accurate! > > >  > > > ol'bill > > > > > > --- On Thu, 6/18/09, Lenny V.  aka GoldLenny > <GoldLenny@> wrote: > > > > > > > From:  Lenny V. aka GoldLenny > <GoldLenny@> > > > > Subject: RE:  [AquaticLife] Re: Sexing > AngelFish? > > > > To: _AquaticLife@AquaticLife@Aqu_ > (mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com) > > >  > > Date: Thursday, June 18, 2009, 11:41 > PM > > > > > >  > > \\Steve//, > > > > > > > > Did you mean "old  fogeys" or "grumpy > old men"? > > > > > > > > LOL > >  > > > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > > > Fish Blog - _http://GoldLenny.http://Gohtt_ > (http://goldlenny.blogspot.com/)   (Links > to any articles > > > > referenced in above reply are listed  > on the right side, > > > > alphabetically under Labels and also  > under Archives by Year, Month) > > > > > > > > > >  > > -----Original Message----- > > > > From: _AquaticLife@AquaticLife@Aqu_ > (mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com) > > >  > > [mailto:_AquaticLife@AquaticLife@Aqu_ > > (mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com) > ] > >  > > On > > > > Behalf Of Steve Szabo > > > > Sent:  Thursday, June 18, 2009 10:08 > PM > > > > To: _AquaticLife@AquaticLife@Aqu_ > (mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com) > > >  > > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: Sexing > AngelFish? > > > >  > > > > Amber, > > > > > > > > As you become  more experienced, you > will learn to be more > > > > discriminating  with information you > find on the web, in published > > > >  articles, and even in books, > especially when it goes against your > >  > > personal experience. > > > > > > > > Ray is  really a nice guy, he really > is. He simply wanted a reference > > >  > to the material you were passing along > so he could check it out > >  > > himself. > > > > The problem is that written > communication  does not always come > > > > across as you mean it to. Since I do  > know Ray (us old fogeys in the > > > > hobby need to stick  together), I can > read the message as he probably > > > > meant it.,  instead of reading it > verbatim as you have. You need to > > > >  learn to take what is said in e-mail > with a little grain of salt > > >  > rather than taking offense > immediately. > > > > If ray meant to  cut you down, believe > me, you would have known it. > > > > > >  > > \\Steve// > > > > > > > > > > > >  -----Original Message----- > > > > From: _AquaticLife@AquaticLife@Aqu_ > (mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com) > > >  > > [mailto:_AquaticLife@AquaticLife@Aqu_ > > (mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com) > ] > >  > > On Behalf Of Amber Berglund > > > > Sent: Thursday, June  18, 2009 9:46 PM > > > > To: _AquaticLife@AquaticLife@Aqu_ > (mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com) > > >  > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: Sexing > AngelFish? > > > >  > > > > I don't hold onto all the links I read like > Lenny does, so  I have no > > > > idea what breeder site on Angel's I read > that  on. > > > > I don't mind being corrected Ray, but > sometimes I wish  you weren't > > > > quite > > > > > > > > so  mean about it sometimes, I didn't > see you offering him any help > > >  > on getting his Angel's to breed and I > was doing my best with what  > > > > info I have read on them, and since I have > no problems  getting mine > > > > to spawn I was trying to pass on tips that > I  had read elsewhere. > > > > If I was writing a paper on breeding  > Angel's then I could understand > > > > asking for all of my  sources and page > info but I'm just trying to > > > > help someone  out with the info that I > had found when I was > > > >  researching. > > > > Guess > > > > > > > > I  will just stick to the info that I > personally have experienced > > >  > since I > > > > > > > > seem to be wrong so often  when I try > to pass on info that I've read. > > > > > > >  > Amber > > > > > > > > Raymond Wetzel wrote: > >  > > > > > > > > > > > > > NO, Not So! I  don't know where > you read that, but I > > > > wonder if  perhaps > > > > > you misread it, If not, whoever wrote > that is  wrong, > > > > other fish in the > > > > > > >  > > tank WILL NOT induce any > Angelfish to spawn. Could you > > >  > please tell me > > > > > where you read this? I would tend  > to doubt that it > > > > woyuld be in any > > > > >  well-penned book, as this kind of > erroneous info has a > > > > way  of getting > > > > > itself known as such as it > spreads  throughout the > > > > hobby. I did notice > > > > >  that you advised James of this; > just another case of > > > > you  can't believe > > > > > > > > > all you read. If it  was on a web > site, I can > > > > understand that -- no one > >  > > > > > > > should put complete faith in everything > they  read up > > > > there, and pass > > > > > it along,  without knowing if it's > true. > > > > > > > > > >  Tetras, or any other small fish, > when put with a > > > > breeding  pair of any > > > > > species of substrate-sawning Cichlids > are  intended to > > > > draw the > > > > > attention of  either one of the > more aggressive > > > > partners of the  pair > > > > > away from the other partner so that > the  least > > > > aggressive partner does > > > > > not  take the full aggression of > the more overbearing > > > >  one. > > > > > > > > > > They (these "dither fish")  act to > initiate the > > > > territorial behavior of > > >  > > > > > > both partners of the breesding pair so > that they  act > > > > in symphony with > > > > > each other  towards one goal -- to > keep the intruders > > > > out of the > >  > > > breeding area. In this way, > attention is drawn to > > >  > these dither fish, > > > > > rather than each other. The  pair > is more apt to act in > > > > harmony rather > > > >  > than one beating up on the other. > This methods of > > > > using  dither fish is > > > > > > > > > usually reserved for  much more > aggressive Cichlids. > > > > Most Angelfish > > >  > > pairs do not need dither fish > with them, nor will > > > >  these dither fish > > > > > induce their spawning. They will  > spawn when they want > > > > to spawn. Most > > > > >  good young pairs will spawn every > eight days once they > > > > start  spawning, > > > > > > > > > when allowed (when you  pull the > slate, to set their > > > > breeding cycle > > >  > > going again). They will taper off > after about 2 1/2 > > >  > years of age (they > > > > > > > > > will start  spawning between 7 and > 8 months, usually > > > > closer to 9 > >  > > > months). Ray > > > > > > > > > >  ---In > _AquaticLife@AquaticLife@Aqu_ > (mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com) > > >  > > > > <mailto:AquaticLifemailto:AquaticLmai>,  Amber > > > > Berglund <amber@> > > > >  wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > I've read from  some breeders > that some Angelfish > > > > need activity in > >  > > the > > > > > > tank from other fish to help > induce  breeding > > > > habits, but mine don't > > > > >  seem > > > > > > to have any problem with that so > far, will  have > > > > to see how they act > > > > >  alone. > > > > > > > > > > > > Amber > >  > > > > > > > > > > bill 1433 wrote: > > >  > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >  > > > > > > > > > Amber, > > > > > >  > > > > > > > > If you hit those Angels at a > wrong time  the > > > > life-expediency of > > > > > > >  those Tetra's will be > about 5 minutes! Once > > > > you give the  fish > > > > their > > > > > > > own tank, best  leave it > that way and save on > > > > your tetra pennies! > >  > > > > > > > > > > > >  Bill > > > > ------------------------------------ > > Please,  DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when > replying, Thank  You. > ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º>  > ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> > PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post,  DELETE all TEXT > that is NOT important to > the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC  of the original > message MODIFY the > SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was  re: old > subject)"  <- > <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. > ,  .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in  this > matter. > > If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead > of  unsubscribing, you > can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit > My  Membership" on the > home page. > > Or e-mail _aquaticlife-aquaticlife-<WBRaquati_ > (mailto:aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com)   to > receive the digest, which includes up to 25 posts at a > time in a single  email > > Or email _aquaticlife-aquaticlife-<WBRaquati_ > (mailto:aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com)   for > the No E-Mail option where you will still be able to > read messages on the  group and post replies. > > Or email _aquaticlife-aquaticlife-<WBRaquati_ > (mailto:aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com)   to > receive individual e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > **************Download the AOL Classifieds Toolbar for > local deals at your > fingertips. > (http://toolbar.aol.com/aolclassifieds/download.html?ncid=emlcntusdown00000004) > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > ------------------------------------ > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when > replying, Thank You. > ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> > ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> > PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is > NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of > the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new > subject (was re: old subject)" <- > <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. > , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. > > If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of > unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by > clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the home page.  > > Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com > to receive the digest, which includes up to 25 posts at a > time in a single email > > Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com > for the No E-Mail option where you will still be able to > read messages on the group and post replies. > > Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com > to receive individual e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > ------------------------------------ > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when > replying, Thank You. > ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> > ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> > PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is > NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of > the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new > subject (was re: old subject)" <- > <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. > , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. > > If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of > unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by > clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the home page.  > > Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com > to receive the digest, which includes up to 25 posts at a > time in a single email > > Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com > for the No E-Mail option where you will still be able to > read messages on the group and post replies. > > Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com > to receive individual e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links > > >     mailto:AquaticLife-fullfeatured@yahoogroups.com > > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 41081	From: bill 1433	Date: 6/20/2009
Subject: Re: Ray Fan Club

Lenny, Donna does just fine but I realize others may have a problem keeping up with her. To that end I offer:http://www.acronymfinder.com/ That should keep everyone on the same page! But a general Internet Question here for anyone? Where or when did the use of these Acronym's first start? From the start up of the "Texting" with the cell phone's? ol' bill---------always playing catch-up but willing to learn --- On Fri, 6/19/09, Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@...> wrote: > From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@...> > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Ray Fan Club > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Date: Friday, June 19, 2009, 9:46 PM > Donna, > > You're going to cause Google to crash, with Ol' Bill having > to look up all > them acronyms.  LOL > > And that is a fact, IMO... or would that be IMHO? > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed > on the right > side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives > by Year, Month) > > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] > On > Behalf Of Donna Ransome > Sent: Friday, June 19, 2009 5:47 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Ray Fan Club > > I know Ray too, but leave me out of that fogey group > please, LOL.  You > couldn't know a nicer person Amber.  But you > definitely have to be sure of > your info before you pass it along.  If you can say > IME that's best.  If you > have the citation, that's second best.  If you just > read it somewhere, > always a good idea to add a caveat like FWIW and could be > truth or myth. > > > > > > ------------------------------------ > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when > replying, Thank You. > ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> > ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> > PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is > NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of > the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new > subject (was re: old subject)" <- > <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. > , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. > > If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of > unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by > clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the home page.  > > Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com > to receive the digest, which includes up to 25 posts at a > time in a single email > > Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com > for the No E-Mail option where you will still be able to > read messages on the group and post replies. > > Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com > to receive individual e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links > > >     mailto:AquaticLife-fullfeatured@yahoogroups.com > > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 41082	From: jan1213@aol.com	Date: 6/20/2009
Subject: Dr. Tims

Dr. Tim's arrived yesterday...on my front porch in the heat...the dry ice was liquid...How do I know this is still good......Jan How would I test this? **************Download the AOL Classifieds Toolbar for local deals at your fingertips. (http://toolbar.aol.com/aolclassifieds/download.html?ncid=emlcntusdown00000004) [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 41083	From: Raymond Wetzel	Date: 6/20/2009
Subject: Re: IN response to Algae verses plants

It seems evident in what you are trying to say, but plant ARE NOT algae -- although, of course, algae ARE plants. As for the subject of whether the higher aquatic plants will outcompete the algae, and the nutrients both need as you've outlined, the latter is a given in that in the aquarium (while not the perfect ecosystem) this environment will always have a supply of oxygen (needed by all living matter) and carbon dioxide as absorbed/dissolved through the surface -- continually, as it is being used or given off. As long as there are animals in this system that feed and give off waste, there will always be a supply of nitrogen in various forms, useable by either animals or plants (depending upon its form). For the most part, the amount of inorganic matter found in the water column is finite and not renewable until fresh water is added/exchanged, although there will always be traces of these minerals being added as a minute portion of the organic waste. Now, as for the former part of this subject, the higher aquatic plants will almost always outcompete most lower algae plant matter as they are more efficient in doing so. The deciding factor in this is how much of the higher aquatic plant matter is utilized in relation to the size of this environment (aquarium) and the amount of excess lighting that is allowed to perpetuate, beyond the normal needs of the established amount of aquatic plants being employed. The stronger the lighting and the longer the duration of the lighting, the longer it will take for the determined/needed amount of aquatic plants to outcompete the algae, also -- in addition to how many plants are being used. Ray --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "replenissh37" <replenissh37@...> wrote: > > In real ecosystems with plants of different species all the > nutrients that are found in live plants get recycled when they die > and are available to the other living things again: the sugars and > cellulose are all broken down into monomers. > As far as Algae outcompeting plants for nutrients and Plants growing > in an aquarium, the aquarium is not a perfect ecosystem. Plants are Algae are both photosynthetic and use CO2, minerals, fixed nitrogen and sunlight to grow and thrive in the production of new leaves, or more > single cells in there body" and this is a way for new growth. > As far as the issue of whether plants will outdo algae to the point of no algea growth...the algea need fixd nitrogen to grow. The algea need the sunlight, co2 and some minerals to grow. The plants and algae secure these energy and materials from the water and environment of the fish tank. And so they probably will get these inorganic materials and use them to grow as long as they are available. In the fecal matter > of the fish there is nitrogen available for the plants and algae. And these are going to be available and resupplied over time. I believe that the CO2 is going to be supplied constantly too. I believe that the oxygen or the mineral potassium is needed also. and this is found in traces in water , the fresh water of the tank. > So there is going to be a supply of potassium, nitrogen, sunlight > water of course, CO2 and also the Nitrogen that is suppplied and then utilized by the algae and plants and then resupplied. And so they will not kill one another off. The Plants will not kill off the Algea, but will grow and they will will grow and use the requirements to grow along with or at the same time the algae are using these requirements. > THey will grow and use these and in time reduce the levels of these requirements to grow. And as they are depleted they will weaken and not grow as much as they are used and will not grow as fast. > But they all are going to be resupplied and made available to the > plants and the algae. And as they are used up and then resupplied to the > plants and algae through water changes, and fish feces, there will be > a level sufficient to support both the algae and the plants. The > plants will use up some of the minerals and nitrogen for thier growth > while the algae will use up some of the minerals and nitrogen for > thier growth. > So one is not going to outcompete the other and eliminate the other. > Plants will not kill off the algae. But they may reduce the level of > growth of the algae to some degree, but it won't kill off the algae. > As far as killing one algae colony off, I think they will both > coexist. And this is the case in ecosystems found in nature in the natural ecosystems both plants , living in water and algae coexists. > Because you want to have plants not algae, I would suggest getting > some algae eaters. > Again, your fish tank does not recycle all the minerals, and nitrogen and CO2 and sunligh completely, but since they or even though they are > partially lost, they are resupplied and refurnished" by water changes > and the fish eating and "producing feces." These are supplied in > adequate amounts for both the algae and water plants to grow and > survive. > So get some algae eaters and moving your aquarium out of direct > sunlight could reduce the algae, and also will lessen the light for > water plants, but that may not help the plants. Being in lower light > might not improve the plants growth unless you find some plants that > can grow in low light. > So if you would get some algae eaters, reduce the sunlight that hits the tank, and find some low light requirement water plants, this is probably the only solution because there will always be enough nitrogen and other metabolic requirements available to both the water plants and algae, because of water changes, and live fish growth. >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 41084	From: Raymond Wetzel	Date: 6/20/2009
Subject: Re: Dr. Tims

Jan, Dry ice does not turn to liquid, it evaporates as a gas. Sounds like you must have had the product shipped with ice-packs, which are contained in plastic flat-packs and will liquify in these sealed enclosures. If these packs were still relatively cool or not much more than room temperature, the product should still be good, as Dr. Tim's One and Only does have at least a minimal shelf life at normal temperatures. If however, these ice-packs and the product's contents were at nuch higher temperatures, possibly from sitting in the sun upon delivery before being retrieved, this may have caused damage. If you feel this roduct may have been damaged, you might try contacting Dr Tim Hovanec at his email address -- < info@... > or calling him at (805) - 907-2690 (Fax: (805) - 523-9887). He has gladly replaced his product in the past for anyone finding it to be somehow damage beyond the point of being functional, more often with the possibility of it freezing during delivery in the Winter. But I'm sure he would replace it for any other reason, if it is no longer vivifical. He may ask you to at least try your present supply of it, which would only be fair, in the event that it may still be viable. That can be established after adding the product to the tank, by using 3 drops of clear household ammonia per gallon, checking and recording the ammonia level with your test kit, and re-testing for this level again the next day which would show you whether these bacteria were alive or not by the amount of reduction (if any) of this ammonia level. In discussing this with him, he may just automatically replace it, but I really can't say -- you need to talk with him one way or the other. Ray --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, jan1213@... wrote: > > Dr. Tim's arrived yesterday...on my front porch in the heat...the dry ice > was liquid...How do I know this is still good......Jan > How would I test this? > **************Download the AOL Classifieds Toolbar for local deals at your > fingertips. > (http://toolbar.aol.com/aolclassifieds/download.html?ncid=emlcntusdown00000004) > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 41085	From: jan1213@aol.com	Date: 6/20/2009
Subject: Re: Dr. Tims

we bought this from a website Reds Pets In a message dated 6/20/2009 9:28:18 A.M. Eastern Daylight Time, sevenspringss@... writes: Jan, Dry ice does not turn to liquid, it evaporates as a gas. Sounds like you must have had the product shipped with ice-packs, which are contained in plastic flat-packs and will liquify in these sealed enclosures. If these packs were still relatively cool or not much more than room temperature, the product should still be good, as Dr. Tim's One and Only does have at least a minimal shelf life at normal temperatures. If however, these ice-packs and the product's contents were at nuch higher temperatures, possibly from sitting in the sun upon delivery before being retrieved, this may have caused damage. If you feel this roduct may have been damaged, you might try contacting Dr Tim Hovanec at his email address -- < _info@drtimsaquaticsinfo_ (mailto:info@...) > or calling him at (805) - 907-2690 (Fax: (805) - 523-9887). He has gladly replaced his product in the past for anyone finding it to be somehow damage beyond the point of being functional, more often with the possibility of it freezing during delivery in the Winter. But I'm sure he would replace it for any other reason, if it is no longer vivifical. He may ask you to at least try your present supply of it, which would only be fair, in the event that it may still be viable. That can be established after adding the product to the tank, by using 3 drops of clear household ammonia per gallon, checking and recording the ammonia level with your test kit, and re-testing for this level again the next day which would show you whether these bacteria were alive or not by the amount of reduction (if any) of this ammonia level. In discussing this with him, he may just automatically replace it, but I really can't say -- you need to talk with him one way or the other. Ray --- In _AquaticLife@AquaticLife@Aqu_ (mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com) , jan1213@... wrote: > > Dr. Tim's arrived yesterday... Dr. Tim's arrived yesterday...<WBR>on my fr > was liquid...How do I know this is still good......Jan > How would I test this? > ************ ************<WBR>**Download the AOL Classifieds Toolbar for lo > fingertips. > (_http://toolbar.http://toolbar.http://toolbar.http://toohttp://toolbar.http_ (http://toolbar.aol.com/aolclassifieds/download.html?ncid=emlcntusdown00000004) ) > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > **************Download the AOL Classifieds Toolbar for local deals at your fingertips. (http://toolbar.aol.com/aolclassifieds/download.html?ncid=emlcntusdown00000004) [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 41086	From: Raymond Wetzel	Date: 6/20/2009
Subject: Re: Dr. Tims

Couldn't find anything doing a search for "Reds Pets" so I have no idea if this is an authorized distributor for Dr. Tim's products. If it is, there shouldn't be an issue. I wouldn't have expected you to buy this directly from Dr. Tim Hovanec as I don't believe he sells directly to the public, but he backs his products up 100%, provided they are not traffiked in the black market or bootlegged (LOL). If Reds Pets is an authorized dealer, I see no problem with Dr. Tim standing behind it. Drop him an email to find out about your situation. He may even be able to tell you if it's still good despite the fact that it was no longer especially cool on delivery. Ray --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, jan1213@... wrote: > > we bought this from a website Reds Pets > > > In a message dated 6/20/2009 9:28:18 A.M. Eastern Daylight Time, > sevenspringss@... writes: > > > > > > Jan, Dry ice does not turn to liquid, it evaporates as a gas. Sounds like > you must have had the product shipped with ice-packs, which are contained in > plastic flat-packs and will liquify in these sealed enclosures. If these > packs were still relatively cool or not much more than room temperature, the > product should still be good, as Dr. Tim's One and Only does have at least > a minimal shelf life at normal temperatures. If however, these ice-packs > and the product's contents were at nuch higher temperatures, possibly from > sitting in the sun upon delivery before being retrieved, this may have > caused damage. > > If you feel this roduct may have been damaged, you might try contacting Dr > Tim Hovanec at his email address -- < _info@drtimsaquaticsinfo_ > (mailto:info@...) > or calling him at (805) - 907-2690 (Fax: (805) - > 523-9887). He has gladly replaced his product in the past for anyone finding > it to be somehow damage beyond the point of being functional, more often > with the possibility of it freezing during delivery in the Winter. But I'm > sure he would replace it for any other reason, if it is no longer vivifical. > He may ask you to at least try your present supply of it, which would only > be fair, in the event that it may still be viable. That can be established > after adding the product to the tank, by using 3 drops of clear household > ammonia per gallon, checking and recording the ammonia level with your test > kit, and re-testing for this level again the next day which would show you > whether these bacteria were alive or not by the amount of reduction (if > any) of this ammonia level. In discussing this with him, he may just > automatically replace it, but I really can't say -- you need to talk with him one > way or the other. Ray > > --- In _AquaticLife@AquaticLife@Aqu_ (mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com) , > jan1213@ wrote: > > > > Dr. Tim's arrived yesterday... Dr. Tim's arrived yesterday...<WBR>on my > fr > > was liquid...How do I know this is still good......Jan > > How would I test this? > > ************ ************<WBR>**Download the AOL Classifieds Toolbar > for lo > > fingertips. > > > (_http://toolbar.http://toolbar.http://toolbar.http://toohttp://toolbar.http_ > (http://toolbar.aol.com/aolclassifieds/download.html?ncid=emlcntusdown00000004) ) > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > > > > > **************Download the AOL Classifieds Toolbar for local deals at your > fingertips. > (http://toolbar.aol.com/aolclassifieds/download.html?ncid=emlcntusdown00000004) > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 41087	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 6/20/2009
Subject: Re: New fish pond...need advice

Shannon, I see Ray made mention of your screened in porch, something I wanted to mention also. Most outdoor plants require 6 hours of sunlight to bloom. They will grow, but not bloom, and, if you give them less than 3-4 hours, they may not grow all that well. However, if you wish, you can also use aquarium plants in an outdoor situation also, though I cannot say they will do better in a lower light situation, since all my ponds have always had plenty of sunlight. If you wish to put fish into the pond, you would need to provide some kind of filtration, unless you vastly under stock the pond. With or without fish, you would still need to do a water change on a regular basis, just as you would with your aquarium. If you want to filter the pond to be able to keep more fish, and you want to have a water lily (or two, depending on the size of your pond) you would need a low flow rate for the filter, since water lilies, and some other pond plants, do not like water motion, and will not do well in its presence. Speaking of water lilies, on reason many people would like to have a pond, you would need to be careful in your choice. You cannot use a normal sized variety in the size pond we are talking about, and certainly not a Victoria (leaves up to 6' across). If you would like to see the Victoria, as well as others, the closest place I know where they are on display is Longwood Gardens in Kennett Square, PA (110 miles from DC), http://www.longwoodgardens.org/. If you are adding fish, any of the sizes we have looked at, so far, are not of sufficient size for koi, or even goldfish. You would want to look at the more hardy of the so called tropical fish, fish such as white clouds, zebra fish, guppies, gambusia, swordtails, platys, paradise fish, etc. These fish will be more able to handle the temperature swings you will get in your pond. Temperature swings are somewhat moderated, if you dig the pond into the ground, but still present. The fish should do extraordinarily well, especially if you under stock, and the pond is in the open, not on your screened in porch, since there will be plenty of live foods available to them. The last year I had a "real" pond, one of 2500+ gallons, I kept paradise fish and goldfish in it. This proved to not be a good mix, and it was the larger goldfish that had the worst end of the stick. The paradise fish became real fry factories, as did the green swords I kept another year, and the australes that were with them. When I got around to harvesting that pond, the water temperature was in the upper 50's and I ended up leaving fish in there for lack of tank space between myself and those who helped with the harvest. (We pulled all the pots the plants were in and used a seine to net the fish.) Also, the fish will become more colorful than you normally see in a tank, and, on the paradise fish, the fin extensions were something to behold (as well a the color). Now, if we haven't managed to thoroughly turn you off the idea <g>, feel free to ask any questions that may come to mind. \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Steve Szabo Sent: Friday, June 19, 2009 11:18 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] New fish pond...need advice Shannon, Husband is a military man, is he? That usually means periodic transfers, doesn't it? In that case, your idea of container water gardens would be a good one. They would be easy to pick up and move with you, rather than leaving the pond behind. The clay is no fun to dig. Probably the cheapest, and largest, container are the really inexpensive kiddie pools you'd find in the discount stores. This is a case where it pays to go cheap. The more inexpensive, the less likely the pool will have the various -cides that can be harmful to both plants and fish. These include things like mildewcides, algaecides, as well as plasticizers to give the plastic some flexibility. You can just place the pool on a flat, level surface in your yard or to dig it in a few inches or even full depth, which will add rigidity to the side of the pool. You can then use potted water or bog plants in it, and most any aquarium fish will be able to be kept in one of these. The real downside is the color., often a bright blue with colorful characters as a design. Less jarring on your sight would be the preformed ponds at the garden centers. They are more expensive, but they are, almost universally, black in color, but way more expensive. They also have a tendency to be deeper than the kiddie ponds, and are meant to be placed in the ground. Going down in size, and more likely to do well on your porch, would be the half barrel with a liner. The half barrels are actually wooden barrels that have been cut in half. It used to be that all you found had been used in the creation of certain adult beverages, but now, I suspect that a good number have never seen the inside of a winery or distiller. Still plantable, but more limited in the fish you can keep within their confines. They also make plastic "half barrels", a container of roughly the same size, but without the history. Moving on down in size, you can get even smaller containers of about 20 gallons in size that are suitable for one or two plants and a few fish. Finally, since you have a porch, you could simply set up a regular aquarium I'll follow up with some more comments tomorrow, since I am about to fall asleep. Don't know why, I only worked 10.5 hours today, and left early because it was Friday <g>. Ray should eventually come upon this and may be able to add to it since, I believe, he used to work at a water garden place in NJ. I'm sure his observations will be right on the money. \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of sgriscom_2 Sent: Friday, June 19, 2009 7:28 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] New fish pond...need advice Hello all, I live in Virginia and am planning my first pond. I am not in any hurry as I want to do it right. It was actually my husbands idea but guess who will be doing most of the work. He is stationed on a cutter right now and isn't home much but he wants to have one setup when he transfers to a land unit. I have been searching the net and have exhasted my local library in books of ponds and container gardens. I haven't decided on many things yet. I know I have clay soil that is very packed. I was thinking maybe to start with a large container garden on my screened porch but not sure if that is a good idea with fish or not. I thought that might be a good test before I start digging holes. From what I read fish can do well in container gardens but all the containers I've seen have been rather small. I don't currently know anyone personally that has a pond or any experiences with them so I'm hoping to get some good advice here. Hope you can help. Shannnon

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 41088	From: jan1213@aol.com	Date: 6/20/2009
Subject: Re: Dr. Tims

_DrTims Aquatics Homepage_ (http://www.drtimsaquatics.com/) It is on his homepage I have contacted Dr. Tim by email....Reds email came back as undeliverable...I even google earthed.... In a message dated 6/20/2009 11:53:05 A.M. Eastern Daylight Time, sevenspringss@... writes: Couldn't find anything doing a search for "Reds Pets" so I have no idea if this is an authorized distributor for Dr. Tim's products. If it is, there shouldn't be an issue. I wouldn't have expected you to buy this directly from Dr. Tim Hovanec as I don't believe he sells directly to the public, but he backs his products up 100%, provided they are not traffiked in the black market or bootlegged (LOL). If Reds Pets is an authorized dealer, I see no problem with Dr. Tim standing behind it. Drop him an email to find out about your situation. He may even be able to tell you if it's still good despite the fact that it was no longer especially cool on delivery. Ray --- In _AquaticLife@AquaticLife@Aqu_ (mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com) , jan1213@... wrote: > > we bought this from a website Reds Pets > > > In a message dated 6/20/2009 9:28:18 A.M. Eastern Daylight Time, > sevenspringss@ sevensprin > > > > > > Jan, Dry ice does not turn to liquid, it evaporates as a gas. Sounds like > you must have had the product shipped with ice-packs, which are contained in > plastic flat-packs and will liquify in these sealed enclosures. If these > packs were still relatively cool or not much more than room temperature, the > product should still be good, as Dr. Tim's One and Only does have at least > a minimal shelf life at normal temperatures. If however, these ice-packs > and the product's contents were at nuch higher temperatures, possibly from > sitting in the sun upon delivery before being retrieved, this may have > caused damage. > > If you feel this roduct may have been damaged, you might try contacting Dr > Tim Hovanec at his email address -- < _info@drtimsaquatic _i > (mailto:info@ (mai> or calling him at (805) - 907-2690 (Fax: (805) - > 523-9887). He has gladly replaced his product in the past for anyone finding > it to be somehow damage beyond the point of being functional, more often > with the possibility of it freezing during delivery in the Winter. But I'm > sure he would replace it for any other reason, if it is no longer vivifical. > He may ask you to at least try your present supply of it, which would only > be fair, in the event that it may still be viable. That can be established > after adding the product to the tank, by using 3 drops of clear household > ammonia per gallon, checking and recording the ammonia level with your test > kit, and re-testing for this level again the next day which would show you > whether these bacteria were alive or not by the amount of reduction (if > any) of this ammonia level. In discussing this with him, he may just > automatically replace it, but I really can't say -- you need to talk with him one > way or the other. Ray > > --- In _AquaticLife@ --- In _Aqu --- In _Aqua_AquaticLife@AquaticLife@Aqu_ (mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com) ) , > jan1213@ wrote: > > > > Dr. Tim's arrived yesterday... Dr. Tim's arrived yesterday...<WBR>on my > fr > > was liquid...How do I know this is still good......Jan > > How would I test this? > > ************ ************<WBR>**Download the AOL Classifieds Toolbar > for lo > > fingertips. > > > (__http://toolbar.http://toolbar.http://toolbar.http://toolbar.http://toohttp:_ (http://toolbar.http//toolbar.http://toolbar.http://toohttp://toolbar.http_) > (_http://toolbar.http://toolbar.http://tool bar.http://toohttp://toolbar.http_ (http://toolbar.aol.com/aolclassifieds/download.html?ncid=emlcntusdown00000004) ) ) > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > > > > > ************ ************<WBR>**Download the AOL Classifieds Toolbar for local > fingertips. > (_http://toolbar.http://toolbar.http://toolbar.http://toohttp://toolbar.http_ (http://toolbar.aol.com/aolclassifieds/download.html?ncid=emlcntusdown00000004) ) > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > **************Download the AOL Classifieds Toolbar for local deals at your fingertips. (http://toolbar.aol.com/aolclassifieds/download.html?ncid=emlcntusdown00000004) [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 41089	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 6/20/2009
Subject: Re: Ray Fan Club

The use of acronyms in online communications began back in the 70's even before the Internet was public and there was such a thing as the Web. They arose with the spread of personal computers. There were several systems used to connect BB's (Bulletin Boards) together. The one I am familiar with is FIDOnet. For those who do not know, BB's were one of the first means people had to communicate with one another via the computer. The acronyms came into use in self defense. One reason was lousy typing skills but a big reason was for speed. Way back then most used 300 baud modems, and a lucky few may have had 1200 baud. Baud is a rough equivalent of bits per second, but the two are not equal. When time-sharing outfits, such as CompuServe, started courting the new consumer market, time became an even bigger factor, since one was charged by the minute for use, more during business hours, less on off hours. \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of bill 1433 Sent: Saturday, June 20, 2009 8:06 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Ray Fan Club Lenny, Donna does just fine but I realize others may have a problem keeping up with her. To that end I offer:http://www.acronymfinder.com/ That should keep everyone on the same page! But a general Internet Question here for anyone? Where or when did the use of these Acronym's first start? From the start up of the "Texting" with the cell phone's? ol' bill---------always playing catch-up but willing to learn --- On Fri, 6/19/09, Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@...> wrote: > From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@...> > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Ray Fan Club > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Date: Friday, June 19, 2009, 9:46 PM > Donna, > > You're going to cause Google to crash, with Ol' Bill having > to look up all > them acronyms.  LOL > > And that is a fact, IMO... or would that be IMHO? > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed > on the right > side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives > by Year, Month) > > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] > On > Behalf Of Donna Ransome > Sent: Friday, June 19, 2009 5:47 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Ray Fan Club > > I know Ray too, but leave me out of that fogey group > please, LOL.  You > couldn't know a nicer person Amber.  But you > definitely have to be sure of > your info before you pass it along.  If you can say > IME that's best.  If you > have the citation, that's second best.  If you just > read it somewhere, > always a good idea to add a caveat like FWIW and could be > truth or myth. > > > > > > ------------------------------------ > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when > replying, Thank You. > ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> > ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> > PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is > NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of > the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new > subject (was re: old subject)" <- > <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. > , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. > > If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of > unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by > clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the home page.  > > Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com > to receive the digest, which includes up to 25 posts at a > time in a single email > > Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com > for the No E-Mail option where you will still be able to > read messages on the group and post replies. > > Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com > to receive individual e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links > > >     mailto:AquaticLife-fullfeatured@yahoogroups.com > > > ------------------------------------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the home page. Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com to receive the digest, which includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com for the No E-Mail option where you will still be able to read messages on the group and post replies. Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com to receive individual e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 41090	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 6/20/2009
Subject: Re: Ray Fan Club

I think, going back to the beginning of the internet (arpanet), BBS' (Bulletin Board Services... the predecessor to these Yahoo Groups and other forums today), etc. had fairly common use of many acronyms... but nothing like the bastardization of words that happens with some users of text messaging and twitter. An acronym is one thing... just removing all vowels for the purpose of shortening a word is a whole 'nother thing. Ooops.. did I just remove a vowel? LOL Remember that "high speed internet" back then was 14.4k or 28.8k dial-up modems, eventually moving up to the blazing speeds of a 56k modem where you could sit and watch a web page load while you drank your morning coffee. If you ever read any of the articles I post from "The Krib's" website, many of his articles are threads of postings on some of the early BBS' that they used to "talk fish" back then. Since there wasn't much band-width and not much storage space on people's computers and/or on the BBS', shortened slang words and acronyms became the norm. Further, since AlGore invented the internet <G> (that means BIG GRIN), government was one of the first big users and you know the Guv'ment loves to use acronyms... such as the current SNAFU that we are in. As you may know, "SNAFU" started off with the military as an acronym for "Situation Normal, All F(oul)ed Up". Snafu later became a word and was added to the standard dictionary. Texting, Twitter, etc., has made things even worse (or better, depending on ones perspective) as they (mostly teens/tweens, but many adults also) have gone to just bastardizing words, to shorten them, where at least, with the early BBS', the folks that used them were generally on the upper education scale so they didn't want their writings to look so crude. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of bill 1433 Sent: Saturday, June 20, 2009 7:06 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Ray Fan Club Lenny, Donna does just fine but I realize others may have a problem keeping up with her. To that end I offer: http://www.acronymfinder.com/ That should keep everyone on the same page! But a general Internet Question here for anyone? Where or when did the use of these Acronym's first start? From the start up of the "Texting" with the cell phone's? ol' bill---------always playing catch-up but willing to learn --- On Fri, 6/19/09, Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@...> wrote: > From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@...> > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Ray Fan Club > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Date: Friday, June 19, 2009, 9:46 PM > Donna, > > You're going to cause Google to crash, with Ol' Bill having to look up > all them acronyms.  LOL > > And that is a fact, IMO... or would that be IMHO? > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles > referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically > under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) > > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] > On > Behalf Of Donna Ransome > Sent: Friday, June 19, 2009 5:47 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Ray Fan Club > > I know Ray too, but leave me out of that fogey group > please, LOL.  You > couldn't know a nicer person Amber.  But you > definitely have to be sure of > your info before you pass it along.  If you can say > IME that's best.  If you > have the citation, that's second best.  If you just > read it somewhere, > always a good idea to add a caveat like FWIW and could be > truth or myth.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 41091	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 6/20/2009
Subject: Re: Gonna sound like a dumb question.

Nahhh... the trick is that you just gotta start off first thing Sunday morning by "licking the hair of the dog that bit ya". Did you know that Wm. Shakespeare made that saying famous? I wonder if that's why it's called the "shakes"? I have to admit though.. Jaegermeister doesn't mix well with that first cup of coffee.... Sambuca isn't too bad though. LOL Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Steve Szabo Sent: Saturday, June 20, 2009 5:49 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Gonna sound like a dumb question. I've heard that about you after a Saturday night. \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Lenny V. aka GoldLenny Sent: Friday, June 19, 2009 1:06 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Gonna sound like a dumb question. I know I replied to this thread and included a couple of links. Am I now "Shakey"? Hmmm.. it does sound like a cool nickname even if done by accident. I might have to change it to GoldShakey first so folks will recognize me and then eventually drop the Gold until I'm just known as Shakey. If someone else out here is Shakey, I apologize. ;-) Lenny Vasbinder aka Goldlenny and soon to be known as Shakey! LOL Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Robert Mazur Sent: Friday, June 19, 2009 10:30 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Gonna sound like a dumb question. Steve: I'm in Schweinfurt, which is north (I think) of Mannheim by about an hour. I am currently back Stateside for school and won't return untl September, but I'm starting to scope everything out. Shakey -- Thanks for the advice. I am going to look at those sites over the weekend while I'm recovering from today's 5 mile run. :). Rob On Thu, Jun 18, 2009 at 11:25 PM, Steve Szabo <steve@...> wrote: > > > Rob, > > The price does seem high to me also, but, then again, I am not real > familiar with European pricing. > > Where are you located? I do have an acquaintance who is German, and > lives in Germany (imagine that, a German in Germany) and can e-mail > him to see if he is close to you and able to give some advice for your > area. When I travel, I hit the phone book to find shops in an area > that I may be staying, and while the shops may not be that good, it > does give me a chance to check them out and see what fish are being > carried. In Germany, you may see a lot of fish you are not familiar > with from your experience on this side of the ocean, and you are > likely to see higher quality fish, and commensurately higher prices. > Europeans seem to want to pay for quality, unlike most Americans. > > A for how long fish live, it depends on the fish. For instance, koi > can live to be well over 100 years old, where your betta's life span > may only be > 3-4 years. There are fish (annual killifish) that at a year old are > very old fish, while there are a number where at 25 years, they are > still young. > > \\Steve// > > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> [mailto: > AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On Behalf > Of Robert Mazur > Sent: Thursday, June 18, 2009 4:07 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Subject: [AquaticLife] Gonna sound like a dumb question. > > This is going to sound like a really dumb, n00bie question, but is $70 > for a > 5 gallon tank with all the accessories (hood, light, filter) an > appropriate > > price? The reason that I ask is I am stationed in Germany now and left > my betta in the care of a friend of mine. I left the 1.5 gallon tank > behind too. My daughter is wanting fish again and at a local store I > saw a 20L > (5.2 US Gal) tank for â'¬49.95 (Euro) which is roughly $70 (give or > take, depending on the conversion rate). > > Also, what sorts of fish get along in that size tank? And the other > question is, how long do fish usually live? Lastly, how would I go > about finding an aquatic shop in Germany? Anyone on this list in > Europe and can shed some light on the subject. > > Thanks! > > Rob > > -- > http://www.pbase.com/mazurgallery/ > http://themazurplace.blogspot.com/ > http://www.flickr.com/photos/rpmazur/ > http://s19.photobucket.com/albums/b185/rpmazur/ > > There are people who make things happen, there are people who watch > things happen, and there are people who wonder what happened. To be > successful, you need to be a person who makes things happen.. > James A. Lovell

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 41092	From: bill 1433	Date: 6/20/2009
Subject: Re: Ray Fan Club

Thanks Steve!   I appreciate the information.  A bit of history and learning never hurts anyone!   Bill --- On Sat, 6/20/09, Steve Szabo <steve@...> wrote: From: Steve Szabo <steve@...> Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Ray Fan Club To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Date: Saturday, June 20, 2009, 12:47 PM The use of acronyms in online communications began back in the 70's even before the Internet was public and there was such a thing as the Web. They arose with the spread of personal computers. There were several systems used to connect BB's (Bulletin Boards) together. The one I am familiar with is FIDOnet. For those who do not know, BB's were one of the first means people had to communicate with one another via the computer. The acronyms came into use in self defense. One reason was lousy typing skills but a big reason was for speed. Way back then most used 300 baud modems, and a lucky few may have had 1200 baud. Baud is a rough equivalent of bits per second, but the two are not equal. When time-sharing outfits, such as CompuServe, started courting the new consumer market, time became an even bigger factor, since one was charged by the minute for use, more during business hours, less on off hours. \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of bill 1433 Sent: Saturday, June 20, 2009 8:06 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Ray Fan Club Lenny, Donna does just fine but I realize others may have a problem keeping up with her.  To that end I offer:http://www.acronymfinder.com/ That should keep everyone on the same page!  But a general Internet Question here for anyone?  Where or when did the use of these Acronym's first start?  From the start up of the "Texting" with the cell phone's? ol' bill---------always playing catch-up but willing to learn --- On Fri, 6/19/09, Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@...> wrote: > From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@...> > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Ray Fan Club > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Date: Friday, June 19, 2009, 9:46 PM > Donna, > > You're going to cause Google to crash, with Ol' Bill having > to look up all > them acronyms.  LOL > > And that is a fact, IMO... or would that be IMHO? > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed > on the right > side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives > by Year, Month) >  > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] > On > Behalf Of Donna Ransome > Sent: Friday, June 19, 2009 5:47 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Ray Fan Club > > I know Ray too, but leave me out of that fogey group > please, LOL.  You > couldn't know a nicer person Amber.  But you > definitely have to be sure of > your info before you pass it along.  If you can say > IME that's best.  If you > have the citation, that's second best.  If you just > read it somewhere, > always a good idea to add a caveat like FWIW and could be > truth or myth. > >  > > > > ------------------------------------ > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when > replying, Thank You. > ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> > ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> > PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is > NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of > the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new > subject (was re: old subject)" <- > <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. > , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. > > If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of > unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by > clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the home page.  > > Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com > to receive the digest, which includes up to 25 posts at a > time in a single email > > Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com > for the No E-Mail option where you will still be able to > read messages on the group and post replies. > > Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com > to receive individual e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links > > >     mailto:AquaticLife-fullfeatured@yahoogroups.com > > >       ------------------------------------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the home page.  Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com to receive the digest, which includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com for the No E-Mail option where you will still be able to read messages on the group and post replies. Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com to receive individual e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links ------------------------------------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the home page.  Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com to receive the digest, which includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com for the No E-Mail option where you will still be able to read messages on the group and post replies. Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com to receive individual e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 41093	From: biG poppa	Date: 6/20/2009
Subject: Re: Sexing AngelFish? (now a possible Coup D'etat!)

I'm just well rounded..lmao --- On Sat, 6/20/09, Rodrigues Gilbert <grodhi96792@...> wrote: From: Rodrigues Gilbert <grodhi96792@...> Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Sexing AngelFish? (now a possible Coup D'etat!) To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Date: Saturday, June 20, 2009, 12:28 AM Hey guys I consider myself well seasoned and somewhat well rounded?  LOL :) [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 41094	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 6/20/2009
Subject: Re: Dr. Tims

Add it to your running tank (with no fish), then wait a few hours or until the next day and then dose the tank with plain ammonia (3 drops per gallon) and test the tank for ammonia, nitrite, nitrate. Test again in a few hours. Post results. Within 12-24 hours, all of the ammonia should have been converted to nitrate. If it did, then the Dr. Tim's was not damaged and is working. At that point, it's safe to add your fish. If you do not have your fish yet, then keep dosing the tank daily with the plain ammonia to keep it "cycled" until you are ready to add the fish. When you took it out of the box, was it HOT or still reasonably cool (room temperature)? If it didn't get too much over room temperature, then it should not have been damaged. As far as the "dry ice was liquid", that's not possible since dry ice is frozen CO2 and as it "melts" it actually turns into CO2 which is a gas, so it doesn't actually melt, it evaporates as it warms up from its frozen state. If it was one of those freezer packs like blue ice or something like that, then that is not dry ice. If it was the blue ice type cooling product, was it warm to the touch or was it still at least at room temperature? Who did you order this from? Let other members know so they can be sure and INFORM that company to do a better job of packing in the future. You should also contact them with your complaint that they did NOT use enough cooling product and/or insulation. On a side note, Dr. Tim is actually a member of this group so he may chime in himself. You can also contact him directly by going to http://DrTimsAquatics.com or just emailing him at mailto:info@... and let him know the details of what happened, so he can maybe provide the retailer with better packing/shipping information.. maybe putting a sticker on the box to keep cool so the delivery person would know to put the package in a shady place instead of out in direct sunlight. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of jan1213@... Sent: Saturday, June 20, 2009 7:17 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Dr. Tims Dr. Tim's arrived yesterday...on my front porch in the heat...the dry ice was liquid...How do I know this is still good......Jan How would I test this?

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 41095	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 6/20/2009
Subject: Re: Dr. Tims

Reds Pets has a BIG ad on Dr. Tim's site http://www.DrTimsAquatics.com on the left side under the Quick Links - Welcome to our Online Vendor - RedsPets.com Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Raymond Wetzel Sent: Saturday, June 20, 2009 10:51 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Dr. Tims Couldn't find anything doing a search for "Reds Pets" so I have no idea if this is an authorized distributor for Dr. Tim's products. If it is, there shouldn't be an issue. I wouldn't have expected you to buy this directly from Dr. Tim Hovanec as I don't believe he sells directly to the public, but he backs his products up 100%, provided they are not traffiked in the black market or bootlegged (LOL). If Reds Pets is an authorized dealer, I see no problem with Dr. Tim standing behind it. Drop him an email to find out about your situation. He may even be able to tell you if it's still good despite the fact that it was no longer especially cool on delivery. Ray --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, jan1213@... wrote: > > we bought this from a website Reds Pets > > > In a message dated 6/20/2009 9:28:18 A.M. Eastern Daylight Time, > sevenspringss@... writes: > > > > > > Jan, Dry ice does not turn to liquid, it evaporates as a gas. Sounds > like you must have had the product shipped with ice-packs, which are > contained in plastic flat-packs and will liquify in these sealed > enclosures. If these packs were still relatively cool or not much > more than room temperature, the product should still be good, as Dr. > Tim's One and Only does have at least a minimal shelf life at normal > temperatures. If however, these ice-packs and the product's contents > were at nuch higher temperatures, possibly from sitting in the sun > upon delivery before being retrieved, this may have caused damage. > > If you feel this roduct may have been damaged, you might try > contacting Dr Tim Hovanec at his email address -- < > _info@drtimsaquaticsinfo_ > (mailto:info@...) > or calling him at (805) - 907-2690 (Fax: (805) - > 523-9887). He has gladly replaced his product in the past for anyone > finding it to be somehow damage beyond the point of being functional, > more often with the possibility of it freezing during delivery in the > Winter. But I'm sure he would replace it for any other reason, if it is no longer vivifical. > He may ask you to at least try your present supply of it, which would > only be fair, in the event that it may still be viable. That can be > established after adding the product to the tank, by using 3 drops of > clear household ammonia per gallon, checking and recording the > ammonia level with your test kit, and re-testing for this level again > the next day which would show you whether these bacteria were alive > or not by the amount of reduction (if > any) of this ammonia level. In discussing this with him, he may just > automatically replace it, but I really can't say -- you need to talk > with him one way or the other. Ray > > --- In _AquaticLife@AquaticLife@Aqu_ > (mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com) , jan1213@ wrote: > > > > Dr. Tim's arrived yesterday... Dr. Tim's arrived yesterday...<WBR>on > > my > fr > > was liquid...How do I know this is still good......Jan How would I > > test this?

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 41096	From: jan1213@aol.com	Date: 6/20/2009
Subject: Re: Dr. Tims

Dr, Tim's site has responded,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,I will do a test, if its bad they will replace it...Janis In a message dated 6/20/2009 2:51:48 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time, GoldLenny@... writes: Reds Pets has a BIG ad on Dr. Tim's site _http://www.DrTimsAqhttp://www_ (http://www.drtimsaquatics.com/) on the left side under the Quick Links - Welcome to our Online Vendor - RedsPets.com Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - _http://GoldLenny.http://Gohtt_ (http://goldlenny.blogspot.com/) (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: _AquaticLife@AquaticLife@Aqu_ (mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com) [mailto:_AquaticLife@AquaticLife@Aqu_ (mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com) ] On Behalf Of Raymond Wetzel Sent: Saturday, June 20, 2009 10:51 AM To: _AquaticLife@AquaticLife@Aqu_ (mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com) Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Dr. Tims Couldn't find anything doing a search for "Reds Pets" so I have no idea if this is an authorized distributor for Dr. Tim's products. If it is, there shouldn't be an issue. I wouldn't have expected you to buy this directly from Dr. Tim Hovanec as I don't believe he sells directly to the public, but he backs his products up 100%, provided they are not traffiked in the black market or bootlegged (LOL). If Reds Pets is an authorized dealer, I see no problem with Dr. Tim standing behind it. Drop him an email to find out about your situation. He may even be able to tell you if it's still good despite the fact that it was no longer especially cool on delivery. Ray --- In _AquaticLife@AquaticLife@Aqu_ (mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com) , jan1213@... wrote: > > we bought this from a website Reds Pets > > > In a message dated 6/20/2009 9:28:18 A.M. Eastern Daylight Time, > sevenspringss@ sevensprin > > > > > > Jan, Dry ice does not turn to liquid, it evaporates as a gas. Sounds > like you must have had the product shipped with ice-packs, which are > contained in plastic flat-packs and will liquify in these sealed > enclosures. If these packs were still relatively cool or not much > more than room temperature, the product should still be good, as Dr. > Tim's One and Only does have at least a minimal shelf life at normal > temperatures. If however, these ice-packs and the product's contents > were at nuch higher temperatures, possibly from sitting in the sun > upon delivery before being retrieved, this may have caused damage. > > If you feel this roduct may have been damaged, you might try > contacting Dr Tim Hovanec at his email address -- < > _info@drtimsaquatic _ > (mailto:info@ (mai> or calling him at (805) - 907-2690 (Fax: (805) - > 523-9887). He has gladly replaced his product in the past for anyone > finding it to be somehow damage beyond the point of being functional, > more often with the possibility of it freezing during delivery in the > Winter. But I'm sure he would replace it for any other reason, if it is no longer vivifical. > He may ask you to at least try your present supply of it, which would > only be fair, in the event that it may still be viable. That can be > established after adding the product to the tank, by using 3 drops of > clear household ammonia per gallon, checking and recording the > ammonia level with your test kit, and re-testing for this level again > the next day which would show you whether these bacteria were alive > or not by the amount of reduction (if > any) of this ammonia level. In discussing this with him, he may just > automatically replace it, but I really can't say -- you need to talk > with him one way or the other. Ray > > --- In _AquaticLife@ --- In --- > (mailto:_AquaticLife@AquaticLife@Aqu_ (mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com) ) , jan1213@ wrote: > > > > Dr. Tim's arrived yesterday... Dr. Tim's arrived yesterday...<WBR>on > > my > fr > > was liquid...How do I know this is still good......Jan How would I > > test this? **************Download the AOL Classifieds Toolbar for local deals at your fingertips. (http://toolbar.aol.com/aolclassifieds/download.html?ncid=emlcntusdown00000004) [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 41097	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 6/20/2009
Subject: Re: Ray Fan Club

Wow.. I do not remember ever dealing with 300 or 600 baud modems. I seem to remember my first was a 14.4kbs but I could be wrong. I will admit that while I've used computers for a LONG time, I never really got onto the internet, probably until some time in the 80's, so \\Steve// has a few years ahead of me on the "net". Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of bill 1433 Sent: Saturday, June 20, 2009 12:31 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Ray Fan Club Thanks Steve!   I appreciate the information.  A bit of history and learning never hurts anyone!   Bill --- On Sat, 6/20/09, Steve Szabo <steve@...> wrote: From: Steve Szabo <steve@...> Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Ray Fan Club To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Date: Saturday, June 20, 2009, 12:47 PM The use of acronyms in online communications began back in the 70's even before the Internet was public and there was such a thing as the Web. They arose with the spread of personal computers. There were several systems used to connect BB's (Bulletin Boards) together. The one I am familiar with is FIDOnet. For those who do not know, BB's were one of the first means people had to communicate with one another via the computer. The acronyms came into use in self defense. One reason was lousy typing skills but a big reason was for speed. Way back then most used 300 baud modems, and a lucky few may have had 1200 baud. Baud is a rough equivalent of bits per second, but the two are not equal. When time-sharing outfits, such as CompuServe, started courting the new consumer market, time became an even bigger factor, since one was charged by the minute for use, more during business hours, less on off hours. \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of bill 1433 Sent: Saturday, June 20, 2009 8:06 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Ray Fan Club Lenny, Donna does just fine but I realize others may have a problem keeping up with her.  To that end I offer:http://www.acronymfinder.com/ That should keep everyone on the same page!  But a general Internet Question here for anyone?  Where or when did the use of these Acronym's first start?  From the start up of the "Texting" with the cell phone's? ol' bill---------always playing catch-up but willing to learn --- On Fri, 6/19/09, Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@...> wrote: > From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@...> > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Ray Fan Club > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Date: Friday, June 19, 2009, 9:46 PM > Donna, > > You're going to cause Google to crash, with Ol' Bill having to look up > all them acronyms.  LOL > > And that is a fact, IMO... or would that be IMHO? > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles > referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically > under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) >  > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] > On > Behalf Of Donna Ransome > Sent: Friday, June 19, 2009 5:47 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Ray Fan Club > > I know Ray too, but leave me out of that fogey group > please, LOL.  You > couldn't know a nicer person Amber.  But you > definitely have to be sure of > your info before you pass it along.  If you can say > IME that's best.  If you > have the citation, that's second best.  If you just > read it somewhere, > always a good idea to add a caveat like FWIW and could be > truth or myth.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 41098	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 6/20/2009
Subject: OT: Blindness Cure May Lie in Aquarium

This is kind of off topic for this list, but I thought a number of you may have some interest. The following link gives a brief description of some ongoing research with zebrafish and their ability to grow new eye cells. http://www.canada.com/technology/science/Blindness+cure+aquarium/1510343 /story.html TinyURL: http://tinyurl.com/n3enp2 \\Steve//

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 41099	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 6/20/2009
Subject: Re: Ray Fan Club

There were no 600 baud modems. I never worked with 120 baud, the speed used for teletypes, if anyone knows what they are. \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Lenny V. aka GoldLenny Sent: Saturday, June 20, 2009 2:57 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Ray Fan Club Wow.. I do not remember ever dealing with 300 or 600 baud modems. I seem to remember my first was a 14.4kbs but I could be wrong. I will admit that while I've used computers for a LONG time, I never really got onto the internet, probably until some time in the 80's, so \\Steve// has a few years ahead of me on the "net". Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of bill 1433 Sent: Saturday, June 20, 2009 12:31 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Ray Fan Club Thanks Steve!   I appreciate the information.  A bit of history and learning never hurts anyone!   Bill --- On Sat, 6/20/09, Steve Szabo <steve@...> wrote: From: Steve Szabo <steve@...> Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Ray Fan Club To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Date: Saturday, June 20, 2009, 12:47 PM The use of acronyms in online communications began back in the 70's even before the Internet was public and there was such a thing as the Web. They arose with the spread of personal computers. There were several systems used to connect BB's (Bulletin Boards) together. The one I am familiar with is FIDOnet. For those who do not know, BB's were one of the first means people had to communicate with one another via the computer. The acronyms came into use in self defense. One reason was lousy typing skills but a big reason was for speed. Way back then most used 300 baud modems, and a lucky few may have had 1200 baud. Baud is a rough equivalent of bits per second, but the two are not equal. When time-sharing outfits, such as CompuServe, started courting the new consumer market, time became an even bigger factor, since one was charged by the minute for use, more during business hours, less on off hours. \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of bill 1433 Sent: Saturday, June 20, 2009 8:06 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Ray Fan Club Lenny, Donna does just fine but I realize others may have a problem keeping up with her.  To that end I offer:http://www.acronymfinder.com/ That should keep everyone on the same page!  But a general Internet Question here for anyone?  Where or when did the use of these Acronym's first start?  From the start up of the "Texting" with the cell phone's? ol' bill---------always playing catch-up but willing to learn --- On Fri, 6/19/09, Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@...> wrote: > From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@...> > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Ray Fan Club > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Date: Friday, June 19, 2009, 9:46 PM > Donna, > > You're going to cause Google to crash, with Ol' Bill having to look up > all them acronyms.  LOL > > And that is a fact, IMO... or would that be IMHO? > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles > referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically > under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) >  > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] > On > Behalf Of Donna Ransome > Sent: Friday, June 19, 2009 5:47 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Ray Fan Club > > I know Ray too, but leave me out of that fogey group > please, LOL.  You > couldn't know a nicer person Amber.  But you > definitely have to be sure of > your info before you pass it along.  If you can say > IME that's best.  If you > have the citation, that's second best.  If you just > read it somewhere, > always a good idea to add a caveat like FWIW and could be > truth or myth.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 41100	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 6/20/2009
Subject: Re: Dr. Tims

From personal experience if a box says "Perishable" I do NOT leave them in the sun when I leave them at houses, and if there is no shade I don't like leaving the box at all, I often will stick it under a bush or a plant near the door and leave a note on the door so that the package does not sit directly in any sun. Although being in Alaska there isn't nearly as much sun as you poor people down south ;) LOL. How hot was it that day and was the package sitting in the sun? Was the package even labeled as perishable? We (fed Ex) are also not allowed to accept dry ice in my town (had a customer ruin it for everyone else, go figure), so all of our perishables are supposed to have gel ice packs instead of dry ice, but we occasionally have some sneak through the system (dry ice packages). Gel Ice packs will remain cool to the touch for awhile after they have melted to a liquid form as a couple of people have pointed out I think. If packed properly Gel ice packs can keep a cool temperature in a box for up to 48 hours, just depends on how well the shipper insulated the package and taped it up. If you can't tell I spent a couple years packaging and shipping frozen seafood and shipping it out to the lower united states, so I have a little bit of experience on how well the gel ice packs work ;) A lot of people would call us and say, "our fish is thawed is it still safe to eat?" So we would then have to explain that as long as the seafood is still cold to the touch it is still safe to eat and can be used right away (or put in the fridge to use the next day, or refrozen if needed, but the thawed pieces should be used right away). Needless to say if Dr. Tim's is safe at room temperatures for a little while then your product may still be safe if it was still somewhat cool inside of the package. Did you put it in the fridge right away? Amber Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > > > Add it to your running tank (with no fish), then wait a few hours or until > the next day and then dose the tank with plain ammonia (3 drops per > gallon) > and test the tank for ammonia, nitrite, nitrate. Test again in a few > hours. > Post results. Within 12-24 hours, all of the ammonia should have been > converted to nitrate. If it did, then the Dr. Tim's was not damaged and is > working. At that point, it's safe to add your fish. If you do not have > your fish yet, then keep dosing the tank daily with the plain ammonia to > keep it "cycled" until you are ready to add the fish. > > When you took it out of the box, was it HOT or still reasonably cool (room > temperature)? If it didn't get too much over room temperature, then it > should not have been damaged. > > As far as the "dry ice was liquid", that's not possible since dry ice is > frozen CO2 and as it "melts" it actually turns into CO2 which is a gas, so > it doesn't actually melt, it evaporates as it warms up from its frozen > state. If it was one of those freezer packs like blue ice or something > like > that, then that is not dry ice. If it was the blue ice type cooling > product, was it warm to the touch or was it still at least at room > temperature? > > Who did you order this from? Let other members know so they can be > sure and > INFORM that company to do a better job of packing in the future. You > should > also contact them with your complaint that they did NOT use enough cooling > product and/or insulation. > > On a side note, Dr. Tim is actually a member of this group so he may chime > in himself. You can also contact him directly by going to > http://DrTimsAquatics.com <http://DrTimsAquatics.com> or just emailing > him at > mailto:info@... <mailto:info%40drtimsaquatics.com> and > let him know the details of what > happened, so he can maybe provide the retailer with better > packing/shipping > information.. maybe putting a sticker on the box to keep cool so the > delivery person would know to put the package in a shady place instead of > out in direct sunlight. > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right > side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On > Behalf Of jan1213@... <mailto:jan1213%40aol.com> > Sent: Saturday, June 20, 2009 7:17 AM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Subject: [AquaticLife] Dr. Tims > > Dr. Tim's arrived yesterday...on my front porch in the heat...the dry ice > was liquid...How do I know this is still good......Jan How would I test > this? > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 41101	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 6/20/2009
Subject: Pond plants for use in a fish tank, questions.

Okay I got a dwarf lily for my 125 gallon and I love it, I know that they use nutrients really well which is also good I suppose, hopefully it will help outcompete the black beard algae ;) My question is this, has anyone kept WATER HYACINTH in their indoor fish tanks? I want to know how invasive it is, is it like duckweed or not as bad? Does it mind a current in the tank or should it be in a tank with not much surface water current? How tall do the flowers grow? Guess I had a couple questions ;) LOL. I was looking at this site for plants and they have a decent selection for pond plants at least ;) http://www.waterplants.com/cgi-bin/db.cgi?FLOATING+and+OXYGENATORS&&sf1=Category Amber

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 41102	From: jan1213@aol.com	Date: 6/20/2009
Subject: Re: Dr. Tims

the package said nothing but address and return address...it was in the 90's very hot....nothing was cool in the package that was in the small Styrofoam container In a message dated 6/20/2009 5:01:28 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time, amber@... writes: From personal experience if a box says "Perishable" I do NOT leave them in the sun when I leave them at houses, and if there is no shade I don't like leaving the box at all, I often will stick it under a bush or a plant near the door and leave a note on the door so that the package does not sit directly in any sun. Although being in Alaska there isn't nearly as much sun as you poor people down south ;) LOL. How hot was it that day and was the package sitting in the sun? Was the package even labeled as perishable? We (fed Ex) are also not allowed to accept dry ice in my town (had a customer ruin it for everyone else, go figure), so all of our perishables are supposed to have gel ice packs instead of dry ice, but we occasionally have some sneak through the system (dry ice packages). Gel Ice packs will remain cool to the touch for awhile after they have melted to a liquid form as a couple of people have pointed out I think. If packed properly Gel ice packs can keep a cool temperature in a box for up to 48 hours, just depends on how well the shipper insulated the package and taped it up. If you can't tell I spent a couple years packaging and shipping frozen seafood and shipping it out to the lower united states, so I have a little bit of experience on how well the gel ice packs work ;) A lot of people would call us and say, "our fish is thawed is it still safe to eat?" So we would then have to explain that as long as the seafood is still cold to the touch it is still safe to eat and can be used right away (or put in the fridge to use the next day, or refrozen if needed, but the thawed pieces should be used right away). Needless to say if Dr. Tim's is safe at room temperatures for a little while then your product may still be safe if it was still somewhat cool inside of the package. Did you put it in the fridge right away? Amber Recent Activity * 10 _New Members_ (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife/members;_ylc=X3oDMTJmOGRvZzRoBF9TAzk3MzU5NzE0BGdycElkAzg0OTUxNTcEZ3Jwc3BJZAMxNzA1MDQyNzUyBHNlY wN2dGwEc2xrA3ZtYnJzBHN0aW1lAzEyNDU1MzE2NjE-) * 21 _New Photos_ (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife/spnew;_ylc=X3oDMTJmYjk2dXJjBF9TAzk3MzU5NzE0BGdycElkAzg0OTUxNTcEZ3Jwc3BJZAMxNzA1MDQyNzUyBHNlYwN2 dGwEc2xrA3ZwaG90BHN0aW1lAzEyNDU1MzE2NjE-) * 1 _New Links_ (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife/links;_ylc=X3oDMTJnaXNrZDZpBF9TAzk3MzU5NzE0BGdycElkAzg0OTUxNTcEZ3Jwc3BJZAMxNzA1MDQyNzUyBHNlYwN2d GwEc2xrA3ZsaW5rcwRzdGltZQMxMjQ1NTMxNjYx) _Visit Your Group _ (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife;_ylc=X3oDMTJlMHR2NDRmBF9TAzk3MzU5NzE0BGdycElkAzg0OTUxNTcEZ3Jwc3BJZAMxNzA1MDQyNzUyBHNlYwN 2dGwEc2xrA3ZnaHAEc3RpbWUDMTI0NTUzMTY2MQ--) Yahoo! Groups _Auto Enthusiast Zone_ (http://us.ard.yahoo.com/SIG=14h89o20o/M=493064.12717544.13455789.8674578/D=groups/S=1705042752:NC/Y=YAHOO/EXP=1245538861/L=/B=2 ovDBUPDhCg-/J=1245531661750414/K=ODdRKQG1GpuJWpDZafoy9w/A=5658254/R=0/SIG=11 ptgj47g/*http://advision.webevents.yahoo.com/autoenthusiastzone/) Auto Enthusiast Zone Discover auto groups Yahoo! Groups _Mental Health Zone_ (http://us.ard.yahoo.com/SIG=14h5no2qv/M=493064.12016283.13564723.8674578/D=groups/S=1705042752:NC/Y=YAHOO/EXP=1245538861/L=/B=24v DBUPDhCg-/J=1245531661750414/K=ODdRKQG1GpuJWpDZafoy9w/A=5741391/R=0/SIG=11m8 njht2/*http://advision.webevents.yahoo.com/mentalhealthzone) Mental Health Learn More Group Charity _California Pet_ (http://us.ard.yahoo.com/SIG=14h2itfg8/M=737447.13475021.13554044.8674578/D=groups/S=1705042752:NC/Y=YAHOO/EXP=1245538861/L=/B=3IvDBUP DhCg-/J=1245531661750414/K=ODdRKQG1GpuJWpDZafoy9w/A=5733757/R=0/SIG=11l1090r b/*http://www.furryfriendsrescue.org/?from=yahoogroups) Rescue: Furry Friends Rescue . **************Download the AOL Classifieds Toolbar for local deals at your fingertips. (http://toolbar.aol.com/aolclassifieds/download.html?ncid=emlcntusdown00000004) [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 41103	From: Robert Mazur	Date: 6/20/2009
Subject: Re: Gonna sound like a dumb question.

Steve That's fine. On Sat, Jun 20, 2009 at 1:10 PM, Steve Szabo <steve@...> wrote: > > > Mind if I pass along your e-mail address so that the two of you can talk > directly? > > > \\Steve// > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> [mailto: > AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On Behalf Of > Robert Mazur > Sent: Friday, June 19, 2009 11:30 AM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Gonna sound like a dumb question. > > Steve: > > I'm in Schweinfurt, which is north (I think) of Mannheim by about an hour. > I am currently back Stateside for school and won't return untl September, > but I'm starting to scope everything out. > > Shakey -- Thanks for the advice. I am going to look at those sites over the > weekend while I'm recovering from today's 5 mile run. :). > > Rob > > On Thu, Jun 18, 2009 at 11:25 PM, Steve Szabo <steve@...<steve%40familyszabo.com>> > wrote: > > > > > > > Rob, > > > > The price does seem high to me also, but, then again, I am not real > > familiar with European pricing. > > > > Where are you located? I do have an acquaintance who is German, and lives > > in Germany (imagine that, a German in Germany) and can e-mail him to see > if > > he is close to you and able to give some advice for your area. When I > > travel, I hit the phone book to find shops in an area that I may be > staying, > > and while the shops may not be that good, it does give me a chance to > check > > them out and see what fish are being carried. In Germany, you may see a > lot > > of fish you are not familiar with from your experience on this side of > the > > ocean, and you are likely to see higher quality fish, and commensurately > > higher prices. Europeans seem to want to pay for quality, unlike most > > Americans. > > > > A for how long fish live, it depends on the fish. For instance, koi can > > live to be well over 100 years old, where your betta's life span may only > be > > 3-4 years. There are fish (annual killifish) that at a year old are very > old > > fish, while there are a number where at 25 years, they are still young. > > > > \\Steve// > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com><AquaticLife% > 40yahoogroups.com> [mailto: > > AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com><AquaticLife% > 40yahoogroups.com>] On Behalf Of > > Robert Mazur > > Sent: Thursday, June 18, 2009 4:07 PM > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com><AquaticLife% > 40yahoogroups.com> > > Subject: [AquaticLife] Gonna sound like a dumb question. > > > > This is going to sound like a really dumb, n00bie question, but is $70 > for > > a > > 5 gallon tank with all the accessories (hood, light, filter) an > appropriate > > > > price? The reason that I ask is I am stationed in Germany now and left my > > betta in the care of a friend of mine. I left the 1.5 gallon tank behind > > too. My daughter is wanting fish again and at a local store I saw a 20L > > (5.2 US Gal) tank for â'¬49.95 (Euro) which is roughly $70 (give or take, > > depending on the conversion rate). > > > > Also, what sorts of fish get along in that size tank? And the other > > question is, how long do fish usually live? Lastly, how would I go about > > finding an aquatic shop in Germany? Anyone on this list in Europe and can > > shed some light on the subject. > > > > Thanks! > > > > Rob > > > > -- > > http://www.pbase.com/mazurgallery/ > > http://themazurplace.blogspot.com/ > > http://www.flickr.com/photos/rpmazur/ > > http://s19.photobucket.com/albums/b185/rpmazur/ > > > > There are people who make things happen, there are people who watch > things > > happen, and there are people who wonder what happened. To be successful, > > you > > need to be a person who makes things happen.. > > James A. Lovell > > > > > > > > -- > http://www.pbase.com/mazurgallery/ > http://themazurplace.blogspot.com/ > http://www.flickr.com/photos/rpmazur/ > http://s19.photobucket.com/albums/b185/rpmazur/ > > There are people who make things happen, there are people who watch things > happen, and there are people who wonder what happened. To be successful, > you > need to be a person who makes things happen.. > James A. Lovell > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > ------------------------------------ > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. > ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> > PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to > the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT > LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- > <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. > > If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of unsubscribing, you > can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the > home page. > > Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com<aquaticlife-digest%40yahoogroups.com>to receive the digest, which includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single > email > > Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com<aquaticlife-nomail%40yahoogroups.com>for the No E-Mail option where you will still be able to read messages on > the group and post replies. > > Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com<aquaticlife-normal%40yahoogroups.com>to receive individual e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links > > > -- http://www.pbase.com/mazurgallery/ http://themazurplace.blogspot.com/ http://www.flickr.com/photos/rpmazur/ http://s19.photobucket.com/albums/b185/rpmazur/ There are people who make things happen, there are people who watch things happen, and there are people who wonder what happened. To be successful, you need to be a person who makes things happen.. James A. Lovell [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 41104	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 6/20/2009
Subject: Re: Dr. Tims

Well I don't think I would order anything perishable from them again ;) They need a little bit of teaching I would say ;) LOL. Hopefully it's still good but if not I'm sure Dr Tim will fix you up. Amber jan1213@... wrote: > > > > the package said nothing but address and return address...it was in the > 90's very hot....nothing was cool in the package that was in the small > Styrofoam container > > In a message dated 6/20/2009 5:01:28 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time, > amber@... <mailto:amber%40rose-fields.com> writes: > > >From personal experience if a box says "Perishable" I do NOT leave them > in the sun when I leave them at houses, and if there is no shade I don't > like leaving the box at all, I often will stick it under a bush or a > plant near the door and leave a note on the door so that the package > does not sit directly in any sun. Although being in Alaska there isn't > nearly as much sun as you poor people down south ;) LOL. > How hot was it that day and was the package sitting in the sun? Was the > package even labeled as perishable? We (fed Ex) are also not allowed to > accept dry ice in my town (had a customer ruin it for everyone else, go > figure), so all of our perishables are supposed to have gel ice packs > instead of dry ice, but we occasionally have some sneak through the > system (dry ice packages). Gel Ice packs will remain cool to the touch > for awhile after they have melted to a liquid form as a couple of people > have pointed out I think. If packed properly Gel ice packs can keep a > cool temperature in a box for up to 48 hours, just depends on how well > the shipper insulated the package and taped it up. > If you can't tell I spent a couple years packaging and shipping frozen > seafood and shipping it out to the lower united states, so I have a > little bit of experience on how well the gel ice packs work ;) A lot of > people would call us and say, "our fish is thawed is it still safe to > eat?" So we would then have to explain that as long as the seafood is > still cold to the touch it is still safe to eat and can be used right > away (or put in the fridge to use the next day, or refrozen if needed, > but the thawed pieces should be used right away). Needless to say if Dr. > Tim's is safe at room temperatures for a little while then your product > may still be safe if it was still somewhat cool inside of the package. > Did you put it in the fridge right away? > > Amber > > Recent Activity > * 10 > _New Members_ > (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife/members;_ylc=X3oDMTJmOGRvZzRoBF9TAzk3MzU5NzE0BGdycElkAzg0OTUxNTcEZ3Jwc3BJZAMxNzA1MDQyNzUyBHNlY > <http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife/members;_ylc=X3oDMTJmOGRvZzRoBF9TAzk3MzU5NzE0BGdycElkAzg0OTUxNTcEZ3Jwc3BJZAMxNzA1MDQyNzUyBHNlY> > wN2dGwEc2xrA3ZtYnJzBHN0aW1lAzEyNDU1MzE2NjE-) > * 21 > _New Photos_ > (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife/spnew;_ylc=X3oDMTJmYjk2dXJjBF9TAzk3MzU5NzE0BGdycElkAzg0OTUxNTcEZ3Jwc3BJZAMxNzA1MDQyNzUyBHNlYwN2 > <http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife/spnew;_ylc=X3oDMTJmYjk2dXJjBF9TAzk3MzU5NzE0BGdycElkAzg0OTUxNTcEZ3Jwc3BJZAMxNzA1MDQyNzUyBHNlYwN2> > dGwEc2xrA3ZwaG90BHN0aW1lAzEyNDU1MzE2NjE-) > * 1 > _New Links_ > (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife/links;_ylc=X3oDMTJnaXNrZDZpBF9TAzk3MzU5NzE0BGdycElkAzg0OTUxNTcEZ3Jwc3BJZAMxNzA1MDQyNzUyBHNlYwN2d > <http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife/links;_ylc=X3oDMTJnaXNrZDZpBF9TAzk3MzU5NzE0BGdycElkAzg0OTUxNTcEZ3Jwc3BJZAMxNzA1MDQyNzUyBHNlYwN2d> > GwEc2xrA3ZsaW5rcwRzdGltZQMxMjQ1NTMxNjYx) > > _Visit Your Group _ > (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife;_ylc=X3oDMTJlMHR2NDRmBF9TAzk3MzU5NzE0BGdycElkAzg0OTUxNTcEZ3Jwc3BJZAMxNzA1MDQyNzUyBHNlYwN > <http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife;_ylc=X3oDMTJlMHR2NDRmBF9TAzk3MzU5NzE0BGdycElkAzg0OTUxNTcEZ3Jwc3BJZAMxNzA1MDQyNzUyBHNlYwN> > 2dGwEc2xrA3ZnaHAEc3RpbWUDMTI0NTUzMTY2MQ--) > > > > Yahoo! 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Group: AquaticLife	Message: 41105	From: bill 1433	Date: 6/20/2009
Subject: Re: Ray Fan Club

Len, If he is back far enough to remember "baud" modems, he's far enough back to remember the infamous Black Screen. For you younger folks, that's before Windows! ol' bill --- On Sat, 6/20/09, Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@...> wrote: > From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@...> > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Ray Fan Club > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Date: Saturday, June 20, 2009, 2:57 PM > Wow.. I do not remember ever dealing > with 300 or 600 baud modems.  I seem to > remember my first was a 14.4kbs but I could be wrong.  > I will admit that > while I've used computers for a LONG time, I never really > got onto the > internet, probably until some time in the 80's, so > \\Steve// has a few years > ahead of me on the "net". > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed > on the right > side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives > by Year, Month) > > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] > On > Behalf Of bill 1433 > Sent: Saturday, June 20, 2009 12:31 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Ray Fan Club > > > Thanks Steve! >   > I appreciate the information.  A bit of history and > learning never hurts > anyone! >   > Bill > > --- On Sat, 6/20/09, Steve Szabo <steve@...> > wrote: > > > From: Steve Szabo <steve@...> > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Ray Fan Club > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Date: Saturday, June 20, 2009, 12:47 PM > > > The use of acronyms in online communications began back in > the 70's even > before the Internet was public and there was such a thing > as the Web. They > arose with the spread of personal computers. There were > several systems used > to connect BB's (Bulletin Boards) together. The one I am > familiar with is > FIDOnet. For those who do not know, BB's were one of the > first means people > had to communicate with one another via the computer. The > acronyms came into > use in self defense. One reason was lousy typing skills but > a big reason was > for speed. Way back then most used 300 baud modems, and a > lucky few may have > had 1200 baud. Baud is a rough equivalent of bits per > second, but the two > are not equal. > > When time-sharing outfits, such as CompuServe, started > courting the new > consumer market, time became an even bigger factor, since > one was charged by > the minute for use, more during business hours, less on off > hours. > > \\Steve// > > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] > On > Behalf Of bill 1433 > Sent: Saturday, June 20, 2009 8:06 AM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Ray Fan Club > > > Lenny, Donna does just fine but I realize others may have a > problem keeping > up with her.  To that end I offer:http://www.acronymfinder.com/ > > That should keep everyone on the same page!  But a general > Internet Question > here for anyone?  Where or when did the use of these > Acronym's first start?  > From the start up of the "Texting" with the cell phone's? > > ol' bill---------always playing catch-up but willing to > learn > > > --- On Fri, 6/19/09, Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@...> > wrote: > > > From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@...> > > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Ray Fan Club > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > Date: Friday, June 19, 2009, 9:46 PM > > Donna, > > > > You're going to cause Google to crash, with Ol' Bill > having to look up > > all them acronyms.  LOL > > > > And that is a fact, IMO... or would that be IMHO? > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to > any articles > > referenced in above reply are listed on the right > side, alphabetically > > under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) > >  > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] > > On > > Behalf Of Donna Ransome > > Sent: Friday, June 19, 2009 5:47 PM > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Ray Fan Club > > > > I know Ray too, but leave me out of that fogey group > > please, LOL.  You > > couldn't know a nicer person Amber.  But you > > definitely have to be sure of > > your info before you pass it along.  If you can say > > IME that's best.  If you > > have the citation, that's second best.  If you just > > read it somewhere, > > always a good idea to add a caveat like FWIW and could > be > > truth or myth. > > > > ------------------------------------ > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when > replying, Thank You. > ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> > ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> > PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is > NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of > the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new > subject (was re: old subject)" <- > <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. > , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. > > If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of > unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by > clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the home page.  > > Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com > to receive the digest, which includes up to 25 posts at a > time in a single email > > Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com > for the No E-Mail option where you will still be able to > read messages on the group and post replies. > > Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com > to receive individual e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links > > >     mailto:AquaticLife-fullfeatured@yahoogroups.com > > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 41106	From: biG poppa	Date: 6/20/2009
Subject: Re: Dr. Tims

Now there in the subject Seachem Flourish states in the bottle that it must be refrigerated. Does it really have to be? is my question --- On Sat, 6/20/09, Amber Berglund <amber@...> wrote: From: Amber Berglund <amber@...> Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Dr. Tims To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Date: Saturday, June 20, 2009, 5:13 PM Well I don't think I would order anything perishable from them again ;) They need a little bit of teaching I would say ;) LOL. Hopefully it's still good but if not I'm sure Dr Tim will fix you up. Amber jan1213@aol. com wrote: > > > > the package said nothing but address and return address...it was in the > 90's very hot....nothing was cool in the package that was in the small > Styrofoam container > > In a message dated 6/20/2009 5:01:28 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time, > amber@rose-fields. com <mailto:amber% 40rose-fields. com> writes: > > >From personal experience if a box says "Perishable" I do NOT leave them > in the sun when I leave them at houses, and if there is no shade I don't > like leaving the box at all, I often will stick it under a bush or a > plant near the door and leave a note on the door so that the package > does not sit directly in any sun. Although being in Alaska there isn't > nearly as much sun as you poor people down south ;) LOL. > How hot was it that day and was the package sitting in the sun? Was the > package even labeled as perishable? We (fed Ex) are also not allowed to > accept dry ice in my town (had a customer ruin it for everyone else, go > figure), so all of our perishables are supposed to have gel ice packs > instead of dry ice, but we occasionally have some sneak through the > system (dry ice packages). Gel Ice packs will remain cool to the touch > for awhile after they have melted to a liquid form as a couple of people > have pointed out I think. If packed properly Gel ice packs can keep a > cool temperature in a box for up to 48 hours, just depends on how well > the shipper insulated the package and taped it up. > If you can't tell I spent a couple years packaging and shipping frozen > seafood and shipping it out to the lower united states, so I have a > little bit of experience on how well the gel ice packs work ;) A lot of > people would call us and say, "our fish is thawed is it still safe to > eat?" So we would then have to explain that as long as the seafood is > still cold to the touch it is still safe to eat and can be used right > away (or put in the fridge to use the next day, or refrozen if needed, > but the thawed pieces should be used right away). Needless to say if Dr. > Tim's is safe at room temperatures for a little while then your product > may still be safe if it was still somewhat cool inside of the package. > Did you put it in the fridge right away? > > Amber > > Recent Activity > * 10 > _New Members_ > (http://groups. yahoo.com/ group/AquaticLif e/members; _ylc=X3oDMTJmOGR vZzRoBF9TAzk3MzU 5NzE0BGdycElkAzg 0OTUxNTcEZ3Jwc3B JZAMxNzA1MDQyNzU yBHNlY > <http://groups. yahoo.com/ group/AquaticLif e/members; _ylc=X3oDMTJmOGR vZzRoBF9TAzk3MzU 5NzE0BGdycElkAzg 0OTUxNTcEZ3Jwc3B JZAMxNzA1MDQyNzU yBHNlY> > wN2dGwEc2xrA3ZtYnJz BHN0aW1lAzEyNDU1 MzE2NjE-) > * 21 > _New Photos_ > (http://groups. yahoo.com/ group/AquaticLif e/spnew;_ ylc=X3oDMTJmYjk2 dXJjBF9TAzk3MzU5 NzE0BGdycElkAzg0 OTUxNTcEZ3Jwc3BJ ZAMxNzA1MDQyNzUy BHNlYwN2 > <http://groups. yahoo.com/ group/AquaticLif e/spnew;_ ylc=X3oDMTJmYjk2 dXJjBF9TAzk3MzU5 NzE0BGdycElkAzg0 OTUxNTcEZ3Jwc3BJ ZAMxNzA1MDQyNzUy BHNlYwN2> > dGwEc2xrA3ZwaG90BHN 0aW1lAzEyNDU1MzE 2NjE-) > * 1 > _New Links_ > (http://groups. yahoo.com/ group/AquaticLif e/links;_ ylc=X3oDMTJnaXNr ZDZpBF9TAzk3MzU5 NzE0BGdycElkAzg0 OTUxNTcEZ3Jwc3BJ ZAMxNzA1MDQyNzUy BHNlYwN2d > <http://groups. yahoo.com/ group/AquaticLif e/links;_ ylc=X3oDMTJnaXNr ZDZpBF9TAzk3MzU5 NzE0BGdycElkAzg0 OTUxNTcEZ3Jwc3BJ ZAMxNzA1MDQyNzUy BHNlYwN2d> > GwEc2xrA3ZsaW5rcwRz dGltZQMxMjQ1NTMx NjYx) > > _Visit Your Group _ > (http://groups. yahoo.com/ group/AquaticLif e;_ylc=X3oDMTJlM HR2NDRmBF9TAzk3M zU5NzE0BGdycElkA zg0OTUxNTcEZ3Jwc 3BJZAMxNzA1MDQyN zUyBHNlYwN > <http://groups. yahoo.com/ group/AquaticLif e;_ylc=X3oDMTJlM HR2NDRmBF9TAzk3M zU5NzE0BGdycElkA zg0OTUxNTcEZ3Jwc 3BJZAMxNzA1MDQyN zUyBHNlYwN> > 2dGwEc2xrA3ZnaHAEc3 RpbWUDMTI0NTUzMT Y2MQ--) > > > > Yahoo! Groups > _Auto Enthusiast Zone_ > (http://us.ard. yahoo.com/ SIG=14h89o20o/ M=493064. 12717544. 13455789. 8674578/D= groups/S= 1705042752: NC/Y=YAHOO/ EXP=1245538861/ L=/B=2 > <http://us.ard. yahoo.com/ SIG=14h89o20o/ M=493064. 12717544. 13455789. 8674578/D= groups/S= 1705042752: NC/Y=YAHOO/ EXP=1245538861/ L=/B=2> > ovDBUPDhCg-/ J=12455316617504 14/K=ODdRKQG1Gpu JWpDZafoy9w/ A=5658254/ R=0/SIG=11 > ptgj47g/*http://advision. webevents. yahoo.com/ autoenthusiastzo ne/ > <http://advision. webevents. yahoo.com/ autoenthusiastzo ne/>) > Auto Enthusiast Zone > Discover auto groups > > Yahoo! Groups > _Mental Health Zone_ > (http://us.ard. yahoo.com/ SIG=14h5no2qv/ M=493064. 12016283. 13564723. 8674578/D= groups/S= 1705042752: NC/Y=YAHOO/ EXP=1245538861/ L=/B=24v > <http://us.ard. yahoo.com/ SIG=14h5no2qv/ M=493064. 12016283. 13564723. 8674578/D= groups/S= 1705042752: NC/Y=YAHOO/ EXP=1245538861/ L=/B=24v> > DBUPDhCg-/J= 1245531661750414 /K=ODdRKQG1GpuJW pDZafoy9w/ A=5741391/ R=0/SIG=11m8 > njht2/*http://advision. webevents. yahoo.com/ mentalhealthzone > <http://advision. webevents. yahoo.com/ mentalhealthzone>) > Mental Health > Learn More > > Group Charity > _California Pet_ > (http://us.ard. yahoo.com/ SIG=14h2itfg8/ M=737447. 13475021. 13554044. 8674578/D= groups/S= 1705042752: NC/Y=YAHOO/ EXP=1245538861/ L=/B=3IvDBUP > <http://us.ard. yahoo.com/ SIG=14h2itfg8/ M=737447. 13475021. 13554044. 8674578/D= groups/S= 1705042752: NC/Y=YAHOO/ EXP=1245538861/ L=/B=3IvDBUP> > DhCg-/J=12455316617 50414/K=ODdRKQG1 GpuJWpDZafoy9w/ A=5733757/ R=0/SIG=11l1090r > b/*http://www.furryfri endsrescue. org/?from= yahoogroups > <http://www.furryfri endsrescue. org/?from= yahoogroups>) > Rescue: Furry > Friends Rescue > > . > > ************ **Download the AOL Classifieds Toolbar for local deals at > your > fingertips. > (http://toolbar. aol.com/aolclass ifieds/download. html?ncid= emlcntusdown0000 0004 > <http://toolbar. aol.com/aolclass ifieds/download. html?ncid= emlcntusdown0000 0004>) > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 41107	From: Raymond Wetzel	Date: 6/20/2009
Subject: Re: Dr. Tims

Funny . . . I thought I remembered reading some of the nearly exact same replies on this topic earlier this morning, somewhere around 9:30. If I didn't know any better, I'd have to think that you might not read all your emails for this Group -- or maybe just selectively read them (<G> LOL ROTFL). Ray --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@...> wrote: > > Add it to your running tank (with no fish), then wait a few hours or until > the next day and then dose the tank with plain ammonia (3 drops per gallon) > and test the tank for ammonia, nitrite, nitrate. Test again in a few hours. > Post results. Within 12-24 hours, all of the ammonia should have been > converted to nitrate. If it did, then the Dr. Tim's was not damaged and is > working. At that point, it's safe to add your fish. If you do not have > your fish yet, then keep dosing the tank daily with the plain ammonia to > keep it "cycled" until you are ready to add the fish. > > When you took it out of the box, was it HOT or still reasonably cool (room > temperature)? If it didn't get too much over room temperature, then it > should not have been damaged. > > As far as the "dry ice was liquid", that's not possible since dry ice is > frozen CO2 and as it "melts" it actually turns into CO2 which is a gas, so > it doesn't actually melt, it evaporates as it warms up from its frozen > state. If it was one of those freezer packs like blue ice or something like > that, then that is not dry ice. If it was the blue ice type cooling > product, was it warm to the touch or was it still at least at room > temperature? > > Who did you order this from? Let other members know so they can be sure and > INFORM that company to do a better job of packing in the future. You should > also contact them with your complaint that they did NOT use enough cooling > product and/or insulation. > > On a side note, Dr. Tim is actually a member of this group so he may chime > in himself. You can also contact him directly by going to > http://DrTimsAquatics.com or just emailing him at > mailto:info@... and let him know the details of what > happened, so he can maybe provide the retailer with better packing/shipping > information.. maybe putting a sticker on the box to keep cool so the > delivery person would know to put the package in a shady place instead of > out in direct sunlight. > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right > side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) > > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On > Behalf Of jan1213@... > Sent: Saturday, June 20, 2009 7:17 AM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Subject: [AquaticLife] Dr. Tims > > Dr. Tim's arrived yesterday...on my front porch in the heat...the dry ice > was liquid...How do I know this is still good......Jan How would I test > this? >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 41108	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 6/20/2009
Subject: Re: Dr. Tims

Hmm, interesting question, I have flourish excel and it doesn't say refrigeration is needed... I've never kept it in the fridge either, I wonder if the regular flourish is not shelf stable somehow. Amber biG poppa wrote: > > > Now there in the subject Seachem Flourish states in the bottle that it > must be refrigerated. Does it really have to be? is my question > > --- On Sat, 6/20/09, Amber Berglund <amber@... > <mailto:amber%40rose-fields.com>> wrote: > > From: Amber Berglund <amber@... > <mailto:amber%40rose-fields.com>> > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Dr. Tims > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Date: Saturday, June 20, 2009, 5:13 PM > > Well I don't think I would order anything perishable from them again ;) > > They need a little bit of teaching I would say ;) LOL. > > Hopefully it's still good but if not I'm sure Dr Tim will fix you up. > > Amber > > jan1213@aol. com wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > the package said nothing but address and return address...it was in the > > > 90's very hot....nothing was cool in the package that was in the small > > > Styrofoam container > > > > > > In a message dated 6/20/2009 5:01:28 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time, > > > amber@rose-fields. com <mailto:amber% 40rose-fields. com> writes: > > > > > > >From personal experience if a box says "Perishable" I do NOT leave them > > > in the sun when I leave them at houses, and if there is no shade I don't > > > like leaving the box at all, I often will stick it under a bush or a > > > plant near the door and leave a note on the door so that the package > > > does not sit directly in any sun. Although being in Alaska there isn't > > > nearly as much sun as you poor people down south ;) LOL. > > > How hot was it that day and was the package sitting in the sun? Was the > > > package even labeled as perishable? We (fed Ex) are also not allowed to > > > accept dry ice in my town (had a customer ruin it for everyone else, go > > > figure), so all of our perishables are supposed to have gel ice packs > > > instead of dry ice, but we occasionally have some sneak through the > > > system (dry ice packages). Gel Ice packs will remain cool to the touch > > > for awhile after they have melted to a liquid form as a couple of people > > > have pointed out I think. If packed properly Gel ice packs can keep a > > > cool temperature in a box for up to 48 hours, just depends on how well > > > the shipper insulated the package and taped it up. > > > If you can't tell I spent a couple years packaging and shipping frozen > > > seafood and shipping it out to the lower united states, so I have a > > > little bit of experience on how well the gel ice packs work ;) A lot of > > > people would call us and say, "our fish is thawed is it still safe to > > > eat?" So we would then have to explain that as long as the seafood is > > > still cold to the touch it is still safe to eat and can be used right > > > away (or put in the fridge to use the next day, or refrozen if needed, > > > but the thawed pieces should be used right away). Needless to say if Dr. > > > Tim's is safe at room temperatures for a little while then your product > > > may still be safe if it was still somewhat cool inside of the package. > > > Did you put it in the fridge right away? > > > > > > Amber > > > > > > Recent Activity > > > * 10 > > > _New Members_ > > > (http://groups. yahoo.com/ group/AquaticLif e/members; > _ylc=X3oDMTJmOGR vZzRoBF9TAzk3MzU 5NzE0BGdycElkAzg 0OTUxNTcEZ3Jwc3B > JZAMxNzA1MDQyNzU yBHNlY > > > <http://groups. yahoo.com/ group/AquaticLif e/members; > _ylc=X3oDMTJmOGR vZzRoBF9TAzk3MzU 5NzE0BGdycElkAzg 0OTUxNTcEZ3Jwc3B > JZAMxNzA1MDQyNzU yBHNlY> > > > wN2dGwEc2xrA3ZtYnJz BHN0aW1lAzEyNDU1 MzE2NjE-) > > > * 21 > > > _New Photos_ > > > (http://groups. yahoo.com/ group/AquaticLif e/spnew;_ > ylc=X3oDMTJmYjk2 dXJjBF9TAzk3MzU5 NzE0BGdycElkAzg0 OTUxNTcEZ3Jwc3BJ > ZAMxNzA1MDQyNzUy BHNlYwN2 > > > <http://groups. yahoo.com/ group/AquaticLif e/spnew;_ > ylc=X3oDMTJmYjk2 dXJjBF9TAzk3MzU5 NzE0BGdycElkAzg0 OTUxNTcEZ3Jwc3BJ > ZAMxNzA1MDQyNzUy BHNlYwN2> > > > dGwEc2xrA3ZwaG90BHN 0aW1lAzEyNDU1MzE 2NjE-) > > > * 1 > > > _New Links_ > > > (http://groups. yahoo.com/ group/AquaticLif e/links;_ > ylc=X3oDMTJnaXNr ZDZpBF9TAzk3MzU5 NzE0BGdycElkAzg0 OTUxNTcEZ3Jwc3BJ > ZAMxNzA1MDQyNzUy BHNlYwN2d > > > <http://groups. yahoo.com/ group/AquaticLif e/links;_ > ylc=X3oDMTJnaXNr ZDZpBF9TAzk3MzU5 NzE0BGdycElkAzg0 OTUxNTcEZ3Jwc3BJ > ZAMxNzA1MDQyNzUy BHNlYwN2d> > > > GwEc2xrA3ZsaW5rcwRz dGltZQMxMjQ1NTMx NjYx) > > > > > > _Visit Your Group _ > > > (http://groups. yahoo.com/ group/AquaticLif e;_ylc=X3oDMTJlM > HR2NDRmBF9TAzk3M zU5NzE0BGdycElkA zg0OTUxNTcEZ3Jwc 3BJZAMxNzA1MDQyN > zUyBHNlYwN > > > <http://groups. yahoo.com/ group/AquaticLif e;_ylc=X3oDMTJlM > HR2NDRmBF9TAzk3M zU5NzE0BGdycElkA zg0OTUxNTcEZ3Jwc 3BJZAMxNzA1MDQyN > zUyBHNlYwN> > > > 2dGwEc2xrA3ZnaHAEc3 RpbWUDMTI0NTUzMT Y2MQ--) > > > > > > > > > > > > Yahoo! Groups > > > _Auto Enthusiast Zone_ > > > (http://us.ard. yahoo.com/ SIG=14h89o20o/ M=493064. 12717544. > 13455789. 8674578/D= groups/S= 1705042752: NC/Y=YAHOO/ EXP=1245538861/ > L=/B=2 > > > <http://us.ard. yahoo.com/ SIG=14h89o20o/ M=493064. 12717544. > 13455789. 8674578/D= groups/S= 1705042752: NC/Y=YAHOO/ EXP=1245538861/ > L=/B=2> > > > ovDBUPDhCg-/ J=12455316617504 14/K=ODdRKQG1Gpu JWpDZafoy9w/ > A=5658254/ R=0/SIG=11 > > > ptgj47g/*http://advision. webevents. yahoo.com/ autoenthusiastzo ne/ > > > <http://advision. webevents. yahoo.com/ autoenthusiastzo ne/>) > > > Auto Enthusiast Zone > > > Discover auto groups > > > > > > Yahoo! Groups > > > _Mental Health Zone_ > > > (http://us.ard. yahoo.com/ SIG=14h5no2qv/ M=493064. 12016283. > 13564723. 8674578/D= groups/S= 1705042752: NC/Y=YAHOO/ EXP=1245538861/ > L=/B=24v > > > <http://us.ard. yahoo.com/ SIG=14h5no2qv/ M=493064. 12016283. > 13564723. 8674578/D= groups/S= 1705042752: NC/Y=YAHOO/ EXP=1245538861/ > L=/B=24v> > > > DBUPDhCg-/J= 1245531661750414 /K=ODdRKQG1GpuJW pDZafoy9w/ A=5741391/ > R=0/SIG=11m8 > > > njht2/*http://advision. webevents. yahoo.com/ mentalhealthzone > > > <http://advision. webevents. yahoo.com/ mentalhealthzone>) > > > Mental Health > > > Learn More > > > > > > Group Charity > > > _California Pet_ > > > (http://us.ard. yahoo.com/ SIG=14h2itfg8/ M=737447. 13475021. > 13554044. 8674578/D= groups/S= 1705042752: NC/Y=YAHOO/ EXP=1245538861/ > L=/B=3IvDBUP > > > <http://us.ard. yahoo.com/ SIG=14h2itfg8/ M=737447. 13475021. > 13554044. 8674578/D= groups/S= 1705042752: NC/Y=YAHOO/ EXP=1245538861/ > L=/B=3IvDBUP> > > > DhCg-/J=12455316617 50414/K=ODdRKQG1 GpuJWpDZafoy9w/ A=5733757/ > R=0/SIG=11l1090r > > > b/*http://www.furryfri endsrescue. org/?from= yahoogroups > > > <http://www.furryfri endsrescue. org/?from= yahoogroups>) > > > Rescue: Furry > > > Friends Rescue > > > > > > . > > > > > > ************ **Download the AOL Classifieds Toolbar for local deals at > > > your > > > fingertips. > > > (http://toolbar. aol.com/aolclass ifieds/download. html?ncid= > emlcntusdown0000 0004 > > > <http://toolbar. aol.com/aolclass ifieds/download. html?ncid= > emlcntusdown0000 0004>) > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 41109	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 6/20/2009
Subject: Nuphar Stellata

Is the dwarf lily you buy from the LFS not the same as other Lilies? I can't seem to find much info on them at all online except from sellers. Do these types of Dwarf Lily's still bloom or no? Amber

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 41110	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 6/20/2009
Subject: Re: Dr. Tims

Ray, The sort of messages in Outlook depends on whether the reply was written online in the website, or if it was written elsewhere. The RE: is placed differently--written outside the web site of the list it appears prior to the [Aquatic Life] tag, while written inside the list web site it appears after the tag.. I've read what I thought to be a thread, and replied, only to find out that the question has already been adequately answered elsewhere in my sort, but separate from the thread I replied to. For those of you who do this strictly online, the tag is added when the message is sent to a person's e-mail address (and what the heck are you doing reading and replying to this stuff online without having the flexibility that answering a post offline gives you?) \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Raymond Wetzel Sent: Saturday, June 20, 2009 5:21 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Dr. Tims Funny . . . I thought I remembered reading some of the nearly exact same replies on this topic earlier this morning, somewhere around 9:30. If I didn't know any better, I'd have to think that you might not read all your emails for this Group -- or maybe just selectively read them (<G> LOL ROTFL). Ray --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@...> wrote: > > Add it to your running tank (with no fish), then wait a few hours or until > the next day and then dose the tank with plain ammonia (3 drops per gallon) > and test the tank for ammonia, nitrite, nitrate. Test again in a few hours. > Post results. Within 12-24 hours, all of the ammonia should have been > converted to nitrate. If it did, then the Dr. Tim's was not damaged and is > working. At that point, it's safe to add your fish. If you do not have > your fish yet, then keep dosing the tank daily with the plain ammonia to > keep it "cycled" until you are ready to add the fish. > > When you took it out of the box, was it HOT or still reasonably cool (room > temperature)? If it didn't get too much over room temperature, then it > should not have been damaged. > > As far as the "dry ice was liquid", that's not possible since dry ice is > frozen CO2 and as it "melts" it actually turns into CO2 which is a gas, so > it doesn't actually melt, it evaporates as it warms up from its frozen > state. If it was one of those freezer packs like blue ice or something like > that, then that is not dry ice. If it was the blue ice type cooling > product, was it warm to the touch or was it still at least at room > temperature? > > Who did you order this from? Let other members know so they can be sure and > INFORM that company to do a better job of packing in the future. You should > also contact them with your complaint that they did NOT use enough cooling > product and/or insulation. > > On a side note, Dr. Tim is actually a member of this group so he may chime > in himself. You can also contact him directly by going to > http://DrTimsAquatics.com or just emailing him at > mailto:info@... and let him know the details of what > happened, so he can maybe provide the retailer with better packing/shipping > information.. maybe putting a sticker on the box to keep cool so the > delivery person would know to put the package in a shady place instead of > out in direct sunlight. > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right > side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) > > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On > Behalf Of jan1213@... > Sent: Saturday, June 20, 2009 7:17 AM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Subject: [AquaticLife] Dr. Tims > > Dr. Tim's arrived yesterday...on my front porch in the heat...the dry ice > was liquid...How do I know this is still good......Jan How would I test > this? >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 41111	From: biG poppa	Date: 6/20/2009
Subject: Re: Dr. Tims

specially i got 500ml for a $1.50 at pet smart and this price is very hard to come by so i pick up 4 bottles --- On Sat, 6/20/09, Amber Berglund <amber@...> wrote: From: Amber Berglund <amber@...> Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Dr. Tims To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Date: Saturday, June 20, 2009, 5:56 PM Hmm, interesting question, I have flourish excel and it doesn't say refrigeration is needed... I've never kept it in the fridge either, I wonder if the regular flourish is not shelf stable somehow. Amber biG poppa wrote: > > > Now there in the subject Seachem Flourish states in the bottle that it > must be refrigerated. Does it really have to be? is my question > > --- On Sat, 6/20/09, Amber Berglund <amber@rose-fields. com > <mailto:amber% 40rose-fields. com>> wrote: > > From: Amber Berglund <amber@rose-fields. com > <mailto:amber% 40rose-fields. com>> > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Dr. Tims > To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com <mailto:AquaticLife %40yahoogroups. com> > Date: Saturday, June 20, 2009, 5:13 PM > > Well I don't think I would order anything perishable from them again ;) > > They need a little bit of teaching I would say ;) LOL. > > Hopefully it's still good but if not I'm sure Dr Tim will fix you up. > > Amber > > jan1213@aol. com wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > the package said nothing but address and return address...it was in the > > > 90's very hot....nothing was cool in the package that was in the small > > > Styrofoam container > > > > > > In a message dated 6/20/2009 5:01:28 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time, > > > amber@rose-fields. com <mailto:amber% 40rose-fields. com> writes: > > > > > > >From personal experience if a box says "Perishable" I do NOT leave them > > > in the sun when I leave them at houses, and if there is no shade I don't > > > like leaving the box at all, I often will stick it under a bush or a > > > plant near the door and leave a note on the door so that the package > > > does not sit directly in any sun. Although being in Alaska there isn't > > > nearly as much sun as you poor people down south ;) LOL. > > > How hot was it that day and was the package sitting in the sun? Was the > > > package even labeled as perishable? We (fed Ex) are also not allowed to > > > accept dry ice in my town (had a customer ruin it for everyone else, go > > > figure), so all of our perishables are supposed to have gel ice packs > > > instead of dry ice, but we occasionally have some sneak through the > > > system (dry ice packages). Gel Ice packs will remain cool to the touch > > > for awhile after they have melted to a liquid form as a couple of people > > > have pointed out I think. If packed properly Gel ice packs can keep a > > > cool temperature in a box for up to 48 hours, just depends on how well > > > the shipper insulated the package and taped it up. > > > If you can't tell I spent a couple years packaging and shipping frozen > > > seafood and shipping it out to the lower united states, so I have a > > > little bit of experience on how well the gel ice packs work ;) A lot of > > > people would call us and say, "our fish is thawed is it still safe to > > > eat?" So we would then have to explain that as long as the seafood is > > > still cold to the touch it is still safe to eat and can be used right > > > away (or put in the fridge to use the next day, or refrozen if needed, > > > but the thawed pieces should be used right away). Needless to say if Dr. > > > Tim's is safe at room temperatures for a little while then your product > > > may still be safe if it was still somewhat cool inside of the package. > > > Did you put it in the fridge right away? > > > > > > Amber > > > > > > Recent Activity > > > * 10 > > > _New Members_ > > > (http://groups. yahoo.com/ group/AquaticLif e/members; > _ylc=X3oDMTJmOGR vZzRoBF9TAzk3MzU 5NzE0BGdycElkAzg 0OTUxNTcEZ3Jwc3B > JZAMxNzA1MDQyNzU yBHNlY > > > <http://groups. yahoo.com/ group/AquaticLif e/members; > _ylc=X3oDMTJmOGR vZzRoBF9TAzk3MzU 5NzE0BGdycElkAzg 0OTUxNTcEZ3Jwc3B > JZAMxNzA1MDQyNzU yBHNlY> > > > wN2dGwEc2xrA3ZtYnJz BHN0aW1lAzEyNDU1 MzE2NjE-) > > > * 21 > > > _New Photos_ > > > (http://groups. yahoo.com/ group/AquaticLif e/spnew;_ > ylc=X3oDMTJmYjk2 dXJjBF9TAzk3MzU5 NzE0BGdycElkAzg0 OTUxNTcEZ3Jwc3BJ > ZAMxNzA1MDQyNzUy BHNlYwN2 > > > <http://groups. yahoo.com/ group/AquaticLif e/spnew;_ > ylc=X3oDMTJmYjk2 dXJjBF9TAzk3MzU5 NzE0BGdycElkAzg0 OTUxNTcEZ3Jwc3BJ > ZAMxNzA1MDQyNzUy BHNlYwN2> > > > dGwEc2xrA3ZwaG90BHN 0aW1lAzEyNDU1MzE 2NjE-) > > > * 1 > > > _New Links_ > > > (http://groups. yahoo.com/ group/AquaticLif e/links;_ > ylc=X3oDMTJnaXNr ZDZpBF9TAzk3MzU5 NzE0BGdycElkAzg0 OTUxNTcEZ3Jwc3BJ > ZAMxNzA1MDQyNzUy BHNlYwN2d > > > <http://groups. yahoo.com/ group/AquaticLif e/links;_ > ylc=X3oDMTJnaXNr ZDZpBF9TAzk3MzU5 NzE0BGdycElkAzg0 OTUxNTcEZ3Jwc3BJ > ZAMxNzA1MDQyNzUy BHNlYwN2d> > > > GwEc2xrA3ZsaW5rcwRz dGltZQMxMjQ1NTMx NjYx) > > > > > > _Visit Your Group _ > > > (http://groups. yahoo.com/ group/AquaticLif e;_ylc=X3oDMTJlM > HR2NDRmBF9TAzk3M zU5NzE0BGdycElkA zg0OTUxNTcEZ3Jwc 3BJZAMxNzA1MDQyN > zUyBHNlYwN > > > <http://groups. yahoo.com/ group/AquaticLif e;_ylc=X3oDMTJlM > HR2NDRmBF9TAzk3M zU5NzE0BGdycElkA zg0OTUxNTcEZ3Jwc 3BJZAMxNzA1MDQyN > zUyBHNlYwN> > > > 2dGwEc2xrA3ZnaHAEc3 RpbWUDMTI0NTUzMT Y2MQ--) > > > > > > > > > > > > Yahoo! Groups > > > _Auto Enthusiast Zone_ > > > (http://us.ard. yahoo.com/ SIG=14h89o20o/ M=493064. 12717544. > 13455789. 8674578/D= groups/S= 1705042752: NC/Y=YAHOO/ EXP=1245538861/ > L=/B=2 > > > <http://us.ard. yahoo.com/ SIG=14h89o20o/ M=493064. 12717544. > 13455789. 8674578/D= groups/S= 1705042752: NC/Y=YAHOO/ EXP=1245538861/ > L=/B=2> > > > ovDBUPDhCg-/ J=12455316617504 14/K=ODdRKQG1Gpu JWpDZafoy9w/ > A=5658254/ R=0/SIG=11 > > > ptgj47g/*http://advision. webevents. yahoo.com/ autoenthusiastzo ne/ > > > <http://advision. webevents. yahoo.com/ autoenthusiastzo ne/>) > > > Auto Enthusiast Zone > > > Discover auto groups > > > > > > Yahoo! Groups > > > _Mental Health Zone_ > > > (http://us.ard. yahoo.com/ SIG=14h5no2qv/ M=493064. 12016283. > 13564723. 8674578/D= groups/S= 1705042752: NC/Y=YAHOO/ EXP=1245538861/ > L=/B=24v > > > <http://us.ard. yahoo.com/ SIG=14h5no2qv/ M=493064. 12016283. > 13564723. 8674578/D= groups/S= 1705042752: NC/Y=YAHOO/ EXP=1245538861/ > L=/B=24v> > > > DBUPDhCg-/J= 1245531661750414 /K=ODdRKQG1GpuJW pDZafoy9w/ A=5741391/ > R=0/SIG=11m8 > > > njht2/*http://advision. webevents. yahoo.com/ mentalhealthzone > > > <http://advision. webevents. yahoo.com/ mentalhealthzone> ) > > > Mental Health > > > Learn More > > > > > > Group Charity > > > _California Pet_ > > > (http://us.ard. yahoo.com/ SIG=14h2itfg8/ M=737447. 13475021. > 13554044. 8674578/D= groups/S= 1705042752: NC/Y=YAHOO/ EXP=1245538861/ > L=/B=3IvDBUP > > > <http://us.ard. yahoo.com/ SIG=14h2itfg8/ M=737447. 13475021. > 13554044. 8674578/D= groups/S= 1705042752: NC/Y=YAHOO/ EXP=1245538861/ > L=/B=3IvDBUP> > > > DhCg-/J=12455316617 50414/K=ODdRKQG1 GpuJWpDZafoy9w/ A=5733757/ > R=0/SIG=11l1090r > > > b/*http://www.furryfri endsrescue. org/?from= yahoogroups > > > <http://www.furryfri endsrescue. org/?from= yahoogroups> ) > > > Rescue: Furry > > > Friends Rescue > > > > > > . > > > > > > ************ **Download the AOL Classifieds Toolbar for local deals at > > > your > > > fingertips. > > > (http://toolbar. aol.com/aolclass ifieds/download. html?ncid= > emlcntusdown0000 0004 > > > <http://toolbar. aol.com/aolclass ifieds/download. html?ncid= > emlcntusdown0000 0004>) > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 41112	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 6/20/2009
Subject: Re: Dr. Tims

Yes, I agree that's a really good price, I got it for about 6 dollars a bottle on Marinedepot.com and it was 500ml. Amber biG poppa wrote: > > > specially i got 500ml for a $1.50 at pet smart and this price is very > hard to come by so i pick up 4 bottles > > --- On Sat, 6/20/09, Amber Berglund <amber@... > <mailto:amber%40rose-fields.com>> wrote: > > From: Amber Berglund <amber@... > <mailto:amber%40rose-fields.com>> > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Dr. Tims > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Date: Saturday, June 20, 2009, 5:56 PM > > Hmm, interesting question, I have flourish excel and it doesn't say > > refrigeration is needed... I've never kept it in the fridge either, I > > wonder if the regular flourish is not shelf stable somehow. > > Amber > > biG poppa wrote: > > > > > > > > > Now there in the subject Seachem Flourish states in the bottle that it > > > must be refrigerated. Does it really have to be? is my question > > > > > > --- On Sat, 6/20/09, Amber Berglund <amber@rose-fields. com > > > <mailto:amber% 40rose-fields. com>> wrote: > > > > > > From: Amber Berglund <amber@rose-fields. com > > > <mailto:amber% 40rose-fields. com>> > > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Dr. Tims > > > To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com <mailto:AquaticLife > %40yahoogroups. com> > > > Date: Saturday, June 20, 2009, 5:13 PM > > > > > > Well I don't think I would order anything perishable from them again ;) > > > > > > They need a little bit of teaching I would say ;) LOL. > > > > > > Hopefully it's still good but if not I'm sure Dr Tim will fix you up. > > > > > > Amber > > > > > > jan1213@aol. com wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > the package said nothing but address and return address...it was > in the > > > > > > > 90's very hot....nothing was cool in the package that was in the small > > > > > > > Styrofoam container > > > > > > > > > > > > > > In a message dated 6/20/2009 5:01:28 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time, > > > > > > > amber@rose-fields. com <mailto:amber% 40rose-fields. com> writes: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >From personal experience if a box says "Perishable" I do NOT > leave them > > > > > > > in the sun when I leave them at houses, and if there is no shade I > don't > > > > > > > like leaving the box at all, I often will stick it under a bush or a > > > > > > > plant near the door and leave a note on the door so that the package > > > > > > > does not sit directly in any sun. Although being in Alaska there isn't > > > > > > > nearly as much sun as you poor people down south ;) LOL. > > > > > > > How hot was it that day and was the package sitting in the sun? > Was the > > > > > > > package even labeled as perishable? We (fed Ex) are also not > allowed to > > > > > > > accept dry ice in my town (had a customer ruin it for everyone > else, go > > > > > > > figure), so all of our perishables are supposed to have gel ice packs > > > > > > > instead of dry ice, but we occasionally have some sneak through the > > > > > > > system (dry ice packages). Gel Ice packs will remain cool to the touch > > > > > > > for awhile after they have melted to a liquid form as a couple of > people > > > > > > > have pointed out I think. If packed properly Gel ice packs can keep a > > > > > > > cool temperature in a box for up to 48 hours, just depends on how well > > > > > > > the shipper insulated the package and taped it up. > > > > > > > If you can't tell I spent a couple years packaging and shipping frozen > > > > > > > seafood and shipping it out to the lower united states, so I have a > > > > > > > little bit of experience on how well the gel ice packs work ;) A > lot of > > > > > > > people would call us and say, "our fish is thawed is it still safe to > > > > > > > eat?" So we would then have to explain that as long as the seafood is > > > > > > > still cold to the touch it is still safe to eat and can be used right > > > > > > > away (or put in the fridge to use the next day, or refrozen if needed, > > > > > > > but the thawed pieces should be used right away). Needless to say > if Dr. > > > > > > > Tim's is safe at room temperatures for a little while then your > product > > > > > > > may still be safe if it was still somewhat cool inside of the package. > > > > > > > Did you put it in the fridge right away? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Amber > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Recent Activity > > > > > > > * 10 > > > > > > > _New Members_ > > > > > > > (http://groups. yahoo.com/ group/AquaticLif e/members; > > > _ylc=X3oDMTJmOGR vZzRoBF9TAzk3MzU 5NzE0BGdycElkAzg 0OTUxNTcEZ3Jwc3B > > > JZAMxNzA1MDQyNzU yBHNlY > > > > > > > <http://groups. yahoo.com/ group/AquaticLif e/members; > > > _ylc=X3oDMTJmOGR vZzRoBF9TAzk3MzU 5NzE0BGdycElkAzg 0OTUxNTcEZ3Jwc3B > > > JZAMxNzA1MDQyNzU yBHNlY> > > > > > > > wN2dGwEc2xrA3ZtYnJz BHN0aW1lAzEyNDU1 MzE2NjE-) > > > > > > > * 21 > > > > > > > _New Photos_ > > > > > > > (http://groups. yahoo.com/ group/AquaticLif e/spnew;_ > > > ylc=X3oDMTJmYjk2 dXJjBF9TAzk3MzU5 NzE0BGdycElkAzg0 OTUxNTcEZ3Jwc3BJ > > > ZAMxNzA1MDQyNzUy BHNlYwN2 > > > > > > > <http://groups. yahoo.com/ group/AquaticLif e/spnew;_ > > > ylc=X3oDMTJmYjk2 dXJjBF9TAzk3MzU5 NzE0BGdycElkAzg0 OTUxNTcEZ3Jwc3BJ > > > ZAMxNzA1MDQyNzUy BHNlYwN2> > > > > > > > dGwEc2xrA3ZwaG90BHN 0aW1lAzEyNDU1MzE 2NjE-) > > > > > > > * 1 > > > > > > > _New Links_ > > > > > > > (http://groups. yahoo.com/ group/AquaticLif e/links;_ > > > ylc=X3oDMTJnaXNr ZDZpBF9TAzk3MzU5 NzE0BGdycElkAzg0 OTUxNTcEZ3Jwc3BJ > > > ZAMxNzA1MDQyNzUy BHNlYwN2d > > > > > > > <http://groups. yahoo.com/ group/AquaticLif e/links;_ > > > ylc=X3oDMTJnaXNr ZDZpBF9TAzk3MzU5 NzE0BGdycElkAzg0 OTUxNTcEZ3Jwc3BJ > > > ZAMxNzA1MDQyNzUy BHNlYwN2d> > > > > > > > GwEc2xrA3ZsaW5rcwRz dGltZQMxMjQ1NTMx NjYx) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > _Visit Your Group _ > > > > > > > (http://groups. yahoo.com/ group/AquaticLif e;_ylc=X3oDMTJlM > > > HR2NDRmBF9TAzk3M zU5NzE0BGdycElkA zg0OTUxNTcEZ3Jwc 3BJZAMxNzA1MDQyN > > > zUyBHNlYwN > > > > > > > <http://groups. yahoo.com/ group/AquaticLif e;_ylc=X3oDMTJlM > > > HR2NDRmBF9TAzk3M zU5NzE0BGdycElkA zg0OTUxNTcEZ3Jwc 3BJZAMxNzA1MDQyN > > > zUyBHNlYwN> > > > > > > > 2dGwEc2xrA3ZnaHAEc3 RpbWUDMTI0NTUzMT Y2MQ--) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Yahoo! Groups > > > > > > > _Auto Enthusiast Zone_ > > > > > > > (http://us.ard. yahoo.com/ SIG=14h89o20o/ M=493064. 12717544. > > > 13455789. 8674578/D= groups/S= 1705042752: NC/Y=YAHOO/ EXP=1245538861/ > > > L=/B=2 > > > > > > > <http://us.ard. yahoo.com/ SIG=14h89o20o/ M=493064. 12717544. > > > 13455789. 8674578/D= groups/S= 1705042752: NC/Y=YAHOO/ EXP=1245538861/ > > > L=/B=2> > > > > > > > ovDBUPDhCg-/ J=12455316617504 14/K=ODdRKQG1Gpu JWpDZafoy9w/ > > > A=5658254/ R=0/SIG=11 > > > > > > > ptgj47g/*http://advision. webevents. yahoo.com/ autoenthusiastzo ne/ > > > > > > > <http://advision. webevents. yahoo.com/ autoenthusiastzo ne/>) > > > > > > > Auto Enthusiast Zone > > > > > > > Discover auto groups > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Yahoo! Groups > > > > > > > _Mental Health Zone_ > > > > > > > (http://us.ard. yahoo.com/ SIG=14h5no2qv/ M=493064. 12016283. > > > 13564723. 8674578/D= groups/S= 1705042752: NC/Y=YAHOO/ EXP=1245538861/ > > > L=/B=24v > > > > > > > <http://us.ard. yahoo.com/ SIG=14h5no2qv/ M=493064. 12016283. > > > 13564723. 8674578/D= groups/S= 1705042752: NC/Y=YAHOO/ EXP=1245538861/ > > > L=/B=24v> > > > > > > > DBUPDhCg-/J= 1245531661750414 /K=ODdRKQG1GpuJW pDZafoy9w/ A=5741391/ > > > R=0/SIG=11m8 > > > > > > > njht2/*http://advision. webevents. yahoo.com/ mentalhealthzone > > > > > > > <http://advision. webevents. yahoo.com/ mentalhealthzone> ) > > > > > > > Mental Health > > > > > > > Learn More > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Group Charity > > > > > > > _California Pet_ > > > > > > > (http://us.ard. yahoo.com/ SIG=14h2itfg8/ M=737447. 13475021. > > > 13554044. 8674578/D= groups/S= 1705042752: NC/Y=YAHOO/ EXP=1245538861/ > > > L=/B=3IvDBUP > > > > > > > <http://us.ard. yahoo.com/ SIG=14h2itfg8/ M=737447. 13475021. > > > 13554044. 8674578/D= groups/S= 1705042752: NC/Y=YAHOO/ EXP=1245538861/ > > > L=/B=3IvDBUP> > > > > > > > DhCg-/J=12455316617 50414/K=ODdRKQG1 GpuJWpDZafoy9w/ A=5733757/ > > > R=0/SIG=11l1090r > > > > > > > b/*http://www.furryfri endsrescue. org/?from= yahoogroups > > > > > > > <http://www.furryfri endsrescue. org/?from= yahoogroups> ) > > > > > > > Rescue: Furry > > > > > > > Friends Rescue > > > > > > > > > > > > > > . > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ************ **Download the AOL Classifieds Toolbar for local deals at > > > > > > > your > > > > > > > fingertips. > > > > > > > (http://toolbar. aol.com/aolclass ifieds/download. html?ncid= > > > emlcntusdown0000 0004 > > > > > > > <http://toolbar. aol.com/aolclass ifieds/download. html?ncid= > > > emlcntusdown0000 0004>) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 41113	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 6/20/2009
Subject: Re: Pond plants for use in a fish tank, questions.

Amber, You need very strong lighting to keep water hyacinth (which can no longer be transported across state lines) indoors in an aquarium or pond like situation. Even with halide lighting, it does not appear to do very well, but will survive. I have not heard that it does much beyond survival, and I do not know of anyone who has attempted to keep it indoors for more than the period of freezing temperatures in their area. \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Amber Berglund Sent: Saturday, June 20, 2009 5:09 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Pond plants for use in a fish tank, questions. Okay I got a dwarf lily for my 125 gallon and I love it, I know that they use nutrients really well which is also good I suppose, hopefully it will help outcompete the black beard algae ;) My question is this, has anyone kept WATER HYACINTH in their indoor fish tanks? I want to know how invasive it is, is it like duckweed or not as bad? Does it mind a current in the tank or should it be in a tank with not much surface water current? How tall do the flowers grow? Guess I had a couple questions ;) LOL. I was looking at this site for plants and they have a decent selection for pond plants at least ;) http://www.waterplants.com/cgi-bin/db.cgi?FLOATING+and+OXYGENATORS&&sf1= Category Amber

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 41114	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 6/20/2009
Subject: Re: Pond plants for use in a fish tank, questions.

Well that's too bad, but thanks for the info \\Steve// :) Perhaps I will get a lotus instead then ;) heh. Amber Steve Szabo wrote: > > > Amber, > > You need very strong lighting to keep water hyacinth (which can no > longer be transported across state lines) indoors in an aquarium or pond > like situation. Even with halide lighting, it does not appear to do very > well, but will survive. I have not heard that it does much beyond > survival, and I do not know of anyone who has attempted to keep it > indoors for more than the period of freezing temperatures in their area. > > \\Steve// > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] > On Behalf Of Amber Berglund > Sent: Saturday, June 20, 2009 5:09 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Subject: [AquaticLife] Pond plants for use in a fish tank, questions. > > Okay I got a dwarf lily for my 125 gallon and I love it, I know that > they use nutrients really well which is also good I suppose, hopefully > it will help outcompete the black beard algae ;) > My question is this, has anyone kept WATER HYACINTH in their indoor fish > > tanks? I want to know how invasive it is, is it like duckweed or not as > bad? Does it mind a current in the tank or should it be in a tank with > not much surface water current? How tall do the flowers grow? > Guess I had a couple questions ;) LOL. > I was looking at this site for plants and they have a decent selection > for pond plants at least ;) > http://www.waterplants.com/cgi-bin/db.cgi?FLOATING+and+OXYGENATORS&&sf1= > <http://www.waterplants.com/cgi-bin/db.cgi?FLOATING+and+OXYGENATORS&&sf1=> > Category > > Amber > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 41115	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 6/20/2009
Subject: Re: Nuphar Stellata

Amber, If the dwarf lily is from a bulb, it is from a different genus than the water lily we normally think of. If it grows from a tuber, it is a "real" water lily. Nuphar is a genus related to that of the commonly purchased water lilies. Beyond the difference in the leaf shape and structure, and flowers, I do not know what else is different about them. \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Amber Berglund Sent: Saturday, June 20, 2009 6:01 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Nuphar Stellata Is the dwarf lily you buy from the LFS not the same as other Lilies? I can't seem to find much info on them at all online except from sellers. Do these types of Dwarf Lily's still bloom or no? Amber ------------------------------------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the home page. Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com to receive the digest, which includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com for the No E-Mail option where you will still be able to read messages on the group and post replies. Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com to receive individual e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 41116	From: bill 1433	Date: 6/20/2009
Subject: Re: Dr. Tims

ROTFL? Go Ray! Bill --- On Sat, 6/20/09, Raymond Wetzel <sevenspringss@...> wrote: > From: Raymond Wetzel <sevenspringss@...> > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Dr. Tims > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Date: Saturday, June 20, 2009, 5:20 PM > Funny . . . I thought I remembered > reading some of the nearly exact same replies on this topic > earlier this morning, somewhere around 9:30.  If I > didn't know any better, I'd have to think that you might not > read all your emails for this Group -- or maybe just > selectively read them (<G> LOL ROTFL).  Ray > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, > "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@...> wrote: > > > > Add it to your running tank (with no fish), then wait > a few hours or until > > the next day and then dose the tank with plain ammonia > (3 drops per gallon) > > and test the tank for ammonia, nitrite, nitrate.  > Test again in a few hours. > > Post results.  Within 12-24 hours, all of the > ammonia should have been > > converted to nitrate.  If it did, then the Dr. > Tim's was not damaged and is > > working.  At that point, it's safe to add your > fish.  If you do not have > > your fish yet, then keep dosing the tank daily with > the plain ammonia to > > keep it "cycled" until you are ready to add the fish. > > > > When you took it out of the box, was it HOT or still > reasonably cool (room > > temperature)?  If it didn't get too much over > room temperature, then it > > should not have been damaged. > > > > As far as the "dry ice was liquid", that's not > possible since dry ice is > > frozen CO2 and as it "melts" it actually turns into > CO2 which is a gas, so > > it doesn't actually melt, it evaporates as it warms up > from its frozen > > state.  If it was one of those freezer packs like > blue ice or something like > > that, then that is not dry ice.  If it was the > blue ice type cooling > > product, was it warm to the touch or was it still at > least at room > > temperature? > > > > Who did you order this from?  Let other members > know so they can be sure and > > INFORM that company to do a better job of packing in > the future.  You should > > also contact them with your complaint that they did > NOT use enough cooling > > product and/or insulation.  > > > > On a side note, Dr. Tim is actually a member of this > group so he may chime > > in himself.  You can also contact him directly by > going to > > http://DrTimsAquatics.com or just emailing him at > > mailto:info@... and let him know the details of what > > happened, so he can maybe provide the retailer with > better packing/shipping > > information.. maybe putting a sticker on the box to > keep cool so the > > delivery person would know to put the package in a > shady place instead of > > out in direct sunlight. > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > > (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are > listed on the right > > side, alphabetically under Labels and also under > Archives by Year, Month) > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] > On > > Behalf Of jan1213@... > > Sent: Saturday, June 20, 2009 7:17 AM > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > Subject: [AquaticLife] Dr. Tims > > > > Dr. Tim's arrived yesterday...on my front porch in the > heat...the dry ice > > was liquid...How do I know this is still good......Jan > How would I test > > this? > > > > > > > ------------------------------------ > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when > replying, Thank You. > ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> > ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> > PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is > NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of > the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new > subject (was re: old subject)" <- > <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. > , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. > > If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of > unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by > clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the home page.  > > Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com > to receive the digest, which includes up to 25 posts at a > time in a single email > > Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com > for the No E-Mail option where you will still be able to > read messages on the group and post replies. > > Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com > to receive individual e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links > > >     mailto:AquaticLife-fullfeatured@yahoogroups.com > > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 41117	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 6/20/2009
Subject: Re: Pond plants for use in a fish tank, questions.

Amber, I do not know for sure, but I would suspect that you may have the same problem with lotus as well. They may survive, but that would be about it. I'd research it carefully, to find out, and to determine if there is a variety that would fit into my tank well. The leaves of the lotus can get to be quite large, though they are not in the water, but above the water, and the lotus I have seen can grow more than a few feet out of the water. \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Amber Berglund Sent: Saturday, June 20, 2009 6:09 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Pond plants for use in a fish tank, questions. Well that's too bad, but thanks for the info \\Steve// :) Perhaps I will get a lotus instead then ;) heh. Amber Steve Szabo wrote: > > > Amber, > > You need very strong lighting to keep water hyacinth (which can no > longer be transported across state lines) indoors in an aquarium or pond > like situation. Even with halide lighting, it does not appear to do very > well, but will survive. I have not heard that it does much beyond > survival, and I do not know of anyone who has attempted to keep it > indoors for more than the period of freezing temperatures in their area. > > \\Steve// > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] > On Behalf Of Amber Berglund > Sent: Saturday, June 20, 2009 5:09 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Subject: [AquaticLife] Pond plants for use in a fish tank, questions. > > Okay I got a dwarf lily for my 125 gallon and I love it, I know that > they use nutrients really well which is also good I suppose, hopefully > it will help outcompete the black beard algae ;) > My question is this, has anyone kept WATER HYACINTH in their indoor fish > > tanks? I want to know how invasive it is, is it like duckweed or not as > bad? Does it mind a current in the tank or should it be in a tank with > not much surface water current? How tall do the flowers grow? > Guess I had a couple questions ;) LOL. > I was looking at this site for plants and they have a decent selection > for pond plants at least ;) > http://www.waterplants.com/cgi-bin/db.cgi?FLOATING+and+OXYGENATORS&&sf1= > <http://www.waterplants.com/cgi-bin/db.cgi?FLOATING+and+OXYGENATORS&&sf1=> > Category > > Amber > > ------------------------------------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the home page. Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com to receive the digest, which includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com for the No E-Mail option where you will still be able to read messages on the group and post replies. Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com to receive individual e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 41118	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 6/20/2009
Subject: Re: Nuphar Stellata

From what I've encountered on Lily's there's some debate on if they're really related and if they should have different scientific names to show that. It grows from a very hard bulb (hard as a rock). Does it flower still though? I'm curious to find out if it flowers mostly, I haven't found any pictures of one flowering so far in my search ;) It looks more like a tiger lotus in the pictures than it does a lily though (the submersed leaves, not the floating leaves). Amber Steve Szabo wrote: > > > Amber, > > If the dwarf lily is from a bulb, it is from a different genus than > the water lily we normally think of. If it grows from a tuber, it is a > "real" water lily. > > Nuphar is a genus related to that of the commonly purchased water > lilies. Beyond the difference in the leaf shape and structure, and > flowers, I do not know what else is different about them. > > \\Steve// > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On Behalf Of Amber Berglund > Sent: Saturday, June 20, 2009 6:01 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Subject: [AquaticLife] Nuphar Stellata > > Is the dwarf lily you buy from the LFS not the same as other Lilies? I > can't seem to find much info on them at all online except from sellers. > Do these types of Dwarf Lily's still bloom or no? > > Amber > > ------------------------------------ > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. > ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> > PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT > important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message > MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- > <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. > > If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of unsubscribing, > you can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My > Membership" on the home page. > > Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:aquaticlife-digest%40yahoogroups.com> to receive the digest, > which includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email > > Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:aquaticlife-nomail%40yahoogroups.com> for the No E-Mail option > where you will still be able to read messages on the group and post > replies. > > Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:aquaticlife-normal%40yahoogroups.com> to receive individual > e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 41119	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 6/20/2009
Subject: Re: Pond plants for use in a fish tank, questions.

I was looking at a tiger lotus, I didn't know they could get that big, but it does state that they need a lot of root room (6 inches or more), so I would have to put it in a pot, even in the 125 gallon tank as the soil/gravel is only about 4 inches deep. Well I suppose I'll just keep it on my mind for now and continue doing research on it, they are certainly very pretty in the pictures though (the red ones). Amber Steve Szabo wrote: > > > Amber, > > I do not know for sure, but I would suspect that you may have the same > problem with lotus as well. They may survive, but that would be about > it. I'd research it carefully, to find out, and to determine if there > is a variety that would fit into my tank well. The leaves of the lotus > can get to be quite large, though they are not in the water, but above > the water, and the lotus I have seen can grow more than a few feet out > of the water. > > \\Steve// > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On Behalf Of Amber Berglund > Sent: Saturday, June 20, 2009 6:09 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Pond plants for use in a fish tank, questions. > > Well that's too bad, but thanks for the info \\Steve// :) > Perhaps I will get a lotus instead then ;) heh. > > Amber > > Steve Szabo wrote: > > > > > > Amber, > > > > You need very strong lighting to keep water hyacinth (which can no > > longer be transported across state lines) indoors in an aquarium or pond > > like situation. Even with halide lighting, it does not appear to do very > > well, but will survive. I have not heard that it does much beyond > > survival, and I do not know of anyone who has attempted to keep it > > indoors for more than the period of freezing temperatures in their area. > > > > \\Steve// > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] > > On Behalf Of Amber Berglund > > Sent: Saturday, June 20, 2009 5:09 PM > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > Subject: [AquaticLife] Pond plants for use in a fish tank, questions. > > > > Okay I got a dwarf lily for my 125 gallon and I love it, I know that > > they use nutrients really well which is also good I suppose, hopefully > > it will help outcompete the black beard algae ;) > > My question is this, has anyone kept WATER HYACINTH in their indoor fish > > > > tanks? I want to know how invasive it is, is it like duckweed or not as > > bad? Does it mind a current in the tank or should it be in a tank with > > not much surface water current? How tall do the flowers grow? > > Guess I had a couple questions ;) LOL. > > I was looking at this site for plants and they have a decent selection > > for pond plants at least ;) > > > http://www.waterplants.com/cgi-bin/db.cgi?FLOATING+and+OXYGENATORS&&sf1= > <http://www.waterplants.com/cgi-bin/db.cgi?FLOATING+and+OXYGENATORS&&sf1=> > > > > <http://www.waterplants.com/cgi-bin/db.cgi?FLOATING+and+OXYGENATORS&&sf1= > <http://www.waterplants.com/cgi-bin/db.cgi?FLOATING+and+OXYGENATORS&&sf1=>> > > Category > > > > Amber > > > > > > ------------------------------------ > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. > ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> > PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT > important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message > MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- > <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. > > If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of unsubscribing, > you can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My > Membership" on the home page. > > Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:aquaticlife-digest%40yahoogroups.com> to receive the digest, > which includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email > > Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:aquaticlife-nomail%40yahoogroups.com> for the No E-Mail option > where you will still be able to read messages on the group and post > replies. > > Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:aquaticlife-normal%40yahoogroups.com> to receive individual > e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 41120	From: Raymond Wetzel	Date: 6/20/2009
Subject: Re: Pond plants for use in a fish tank, questions.

Hi Amber, I love water lilies, which one did you get? The small ones are fairly well suited for aquariums provided you give it enough light (and have enough surface cover to prevent the remainder of the light from helping create algae) -- remember, even in outdoor conditions, water lilies need at least 6 hours per day of direct sunlight to be able to bloom. That's a lot of light for an aquarium. I'm hoping I can help you here, but I need to remind you that black beard algae is one of the tougher ones to deal with. Usually, it's not attempted to out-compete this algae for nutritions with aquatic plants, but most often Flourish Excel is used to eradicate it with success. A caveat though, it will melt Vallisneria and Anacharis. If you still need to use aquatic plants to get rid of an algae -- either in attempts to rid the tank of this black beard stuff or another type at a later date -- use a plant such as Hornwort (even if you don't plan on using it permanently) which will absorb the excess nutrients directly from the water column. Hornwort is not planted, by floats in suspension (free-floating Anacharis will do this job well too). Potted/rooted plants such as this water lily will be taking its needed nutrients directly from the substrate it's in, and not from the water column so it will not serve to outcompete algae. Lots of luck with it though, I hope it does well for you; they're beautiful when they bloom and it's an accomplishment if you can get it to do so in the aquarium. Water Hyacynth is not as invasive as duckweed (I don't think any plant comes close to that one in multiplying) but it can get invasive in the pond, given enough sunlight. It's not a problem in the aquarium though, but since you'll need a good deal of light to enable the water lily to bloom, you should see this plant multiply -- but not to any great extent. It doesn't mind current too much, but will do better without it. It will just be pushed to the opposite end of the aquarium by any current from a filter out-flow. While on this subject, the water lily should not be positioned anywhere near the turbulence of a filter -- they DO NOT LIKE water being splashed on top of their leaves. You'd be lucky to get your Water Hyacynth to bloom as it takes lots of light, but if your successful enough to have this happen, it will send up a spike if purple flowers about 8" high or so -- depending on the size of the plant. This flower spike lasts only one day in the pond environment, you probably couldn't expect much more in the aquarium. Ray --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, Amber Berglund <amber@...> wrote: > > Okay I got a dwarf lily for my 125 gallon and I love it, I know that > they use nutrients really well which is also good I suppose, hopefully > it will help outcompete the black beard algae ;) > My question is this, has anyone kept WATER HYACINTH in their indoor fish > tanks? I want to know how invasive it is, is it like duckweed or not as > bad? Does it mind a current in the tank or should it be in a tank with > not much surface water current? How tall do the flowers grow? > Guess I had a couple questions ;) LOL. > I was looking at this site for plants and they have a decent selection > for pond plants at least ;) > http://www.waterplants.com/cgi-bin/db.cgi?FLOATING+and+OXYGENATORS&&sf1=Category > > Amber >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 41121	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 6/20/2009
Subject: Re: Nuphar Stellata

The lilies I have seen that have been identified as Nuphur, though not any that I recall as stellata (remember that the correct way of displaying a scientific name is Genus species--upper case first letter for genus and lower case for species), have a white or yellow flower, that when closed resemble a ball. \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Amber Berglund Sent: Saturday, June 20, 2009 6:15 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Nuphar Stellata From what I've encountered on Lily's there's some debate on if they're really related and if they should have different scientific names to show that. It grows from a very hard bulb (hard as a rock). Does it flower still though? I'm curious to find out if it flowers mostly, I haven't found any pictures of one flowering so far in my search ;) It looks more like a tiger lotus in the pictures than it does a lily though (the submersed leaves, not the floating leaves). Amber Steve Szabo wrote: > > > Amber, > > If the dwarf lily is from a bulb, it is from a different genus than > the water lily we normally think of. If it grows from a tuber, it is a > "real" water lily. > > Nuphar is a genus related to that of the commonly purchased water > lilies. Beyond the difference in the leaf shape and structure, and > flowers, I do not know what else is different about them. > > \\Steve// > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On Behalf Of Amber Berglund > Sent: Saturday, June 20, 2009 6:01 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Subject: [AquaticLife] Nuphar Stellata > > Is the dwarf lily you buy from the LFS not the same as other Lilies? I > can't seem to find much info on them at all online except from sellers. > Do these types of Dwarf Lily's still bloom or no? > > Amber >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 41122	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 6/20/2009
Subject: Re: Nuphar Stellata

This is the only site I've found that actually identifies any scientific names for my Lily, I couldn't find anything at my LFS at all, and info online they just call them "dwarf lilies" :( http://aqualandpetsplus.com/Plant,%20Dwarf%20Lily.htm I'm not sure if they are using the scientific names properly or not. I was just hoping that it would bloom at some point, I would enjoy seeing some floating flowers in my fish tank. Thanks, Amber Steve Szabo wrote: > > > The lilies I have seen that have been identified as Nuphur, though not > any that I recall as stellata (remember that the correct way of > displaying a scientific name is Genus species--upper case first letter > for genus and lower case for species), have a white or yellow flower, > that when closed resemble a ball. > > \\Steve// > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] > On Behalf Of Amber Berglund > Sent: Saturday, June 20, 2009 6:15 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Nuphar Stellata > > >From what I've encountered on Lily's there's some debate on if they're > really related and if they should have different scientific names to > show that. > It grows from a very hard bulb (hard as a rock). Does it flower still > though? I'm curious to find out if it flowers mostly, I haven't found > any pictures of one flowering so far in my search ;) > It looks more like a tiger lotus in the pictures than it does a lily > though (the submersed leaves, not the floating leaves). > > Amber > > Steve Szabo wrote: > > > > > > Amber, > > > > If the dwarf lily is from a bulb, it is from a different genus than > > the water lily we normally think of. If it grows from a tuber, it is a > > > "real" water lily. > > > > Nuphar is a genus related to that of the commonly purchased water > > lilies. Beyond the difference in the leaf shape and structure, and > > flowers, I do not know what else is different about them. > > > > \\Steve// > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On Behalf Of Amber Berglund > > Sent: Saturday, June 20, 2009 6:01 PM > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > Subject: [AquaticLife] Nuphar Stellata > > > > Is the dwarf lily you buy from the LFS not the same as other Lilies? I > > can't seem to find much info on them at all online except from > sellers. > > Do these types of Dwarf Lily's still bloom or no? > > > > Amber > > > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 41123	From: Raymond Wetzel	Date: 6/20/2009
Subject: Re: Dr. Tims

\\Steve//, I'm trying to follow you on this, but right off the bat I don't understand why you are bringing up "Outlook". Are you saying that Lenny uses Outlook whereas most others don't? -- and that, that's where the problem lies? I always reply by going to our group web site and enter my messages from there after opening the poster's message (which I'm doing right now with yours). Are you saying that some people never see my messages on this Group? Since this is not the first occurance by far of redundant information being posted numerous times over the years, after I've already posted identical information, I've often wondered why anyone who would read my info and continue to post the same information, seemingly as if ignoring my posts -- or so it has appeared. I never understood the purpose for doing so, but if they've never seen the initial post then they would have no way of even knowing it existed, which would explain this behavior. I'm still at a loss though, to figure out how Yahoogroups can allow for messaging by some members, that cannot be seen by other members, if that's what you're saying. I presume by "Tag" you mean Subject Line (???), I'm not quite sure, but assume so. Here's where I don't understand why a message isn't being read. Doesn't our Group site name appear in the subject line regardless of where it's placed? -- I think I understand you to say it may be in the beginning or at the end, but even so, with a short subject name, it should still be viewable, or at least I would think so. Thanks for your efforts in trying to explain this to me. Ray --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Steve Szabo" <steve@...> wrote: > > Ray, > > The sort of messages in Outlook depends on whether the reply was written > online in the website, or if it was written elsewhere. The RE: is placed > differently--written outside the web site of the list it appears prior > to the [Aquatic Life] tag, while written inside the list web site it > appears after the tag.. I've read what I thought to be a thread, and > replied, only to find out that the question has already been adequately > answered elsewhere in my sort, but separate from the thread I replied > to. > > For those of you who do this strictly online, the tag is added when the > message is sent to a person's e-mail address (and what the heck are you > doing reading and replying to this stuff online without having the > flexibility that answering a post offline gives you?) > > \\Steve// > > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] > On Behalf Of Raymond Wetzel > Sent: Saturday, June 20, 2009 5:21 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Dr. Tims > > Funny . . . I thought I remembered reading some of the nearly exact same > replies on this topic earlier this morning, somewhere around 9:30. If I > didn't know any better, I'd have to think that you might not read all > your emails for this Group -- or maybe just selectively read them (<G> > LOL ROTFL). Ray > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" > <GoldLenny@> wrote: > > > > Add it to your running tank (with no fish), then wait a few hours or > until > > the next day and then dose the tank with plain ammonia (3 drops per > gallon) > > and test the tank for ammonia, nitrite, nitrate. Test again in a few > hours. > > Post results. Within 12-24 hours, all of the ammonia should have been > > converted to nitrate. If it did, then the Dr. Tim's was not damaged > and is > > working. At that point, it's safe to add your fish. If you do not > have > > your fish yet, then keep dosing the tank daily with the plain ammonia > to > > keep it "cycled" until you are ready to add the fish. > > > > When you took it out of the box, was it HOT or still reasonably cool > (room > > temperature)? If it didn't get too much over room temperature, then > it > > should not have been damaged. > > > > As far as the "dry ice was liquid", that's not possible since dry ice > is > > frozen CO2 and as it "melts" it actually turns into CO2 which is a > gas, so > > it doesn't actually melt, it evaporates as it warms up from its frozen > > state. If it was one of those freezer packs like blue ice or > something like > > that, then that is not dry ice. If it was the blue ice type cooling > > product, was it warm to the touch or was it still at least at room > > temperature? > > > > Who did you order this from? Let other members know so they can be > sure and > > INFORM that company to do a better job of packing in the future. You > should > > also contact them with your complaint that they did NOT use enough > cooling > > product and/or insulation. > > > > On a side note, Dr. Tim is actually a member of this group so he may > chime > > in himself. You can also contact him directly by going to > > http://DrTimsAquatics.com or just emailing him at > > mailto:info@ and let him know the details of what > > happened, so he can maybe provide the retailer with better > packing/shipping > > information.. maybe putting a sticker on the box to keep cool so the > > delivery person would know to put the package in a shady place instead > of > > out in direct sunlight. > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > > (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the > right > > side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, > Month) > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] > On > > Behalf Of jan1213@ > > Sent: Saturday, June 20, 2009 7:17 AM > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > Subject: [AquaticLife] Dr. Tims > > > > Dr. Tim's arrived yesterday...on my front porch in the heat...the dry > ice > > was liquid...How do I know this is still good......Jan How would I > test > > this? > > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 41124	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 6/20/2009
Subject: Re: Dr. Tims

I see what \\Steve// is saying now that I saw your recent post here. When you reply from the website it puts your Re: after the group name [AquaticLife] and before the subject of the post. When I hit reply in my email program it puts the Re: before the entire subject line including the group name. Perhaps yahoo sorts alphabetically and when the Re: moves that changes how they sort the messages? Or it's how your own email program sorts them. I sort by date, so the newest post is at the top of my email list. Perhaps Lenny sorts his differently by subject and that is why he replied to the original poster before reading your post Ray? This is just my best guess, but I can see how that could change how email programs sort the emails if it's done by subject and not date. Amber Raymond Wetzel wrote: > > > \\Steve//, I'm trying to follow you on this, but right off the bat I > don't understand why you are bringing up "Outlook". Are you saying > that Lenny uses Outlook whereas most others don't? -- and that, that's > where the problem lies? I always reply by going to our group web site > and enter my messages from there after opening the poster's message > (which I'm doing right now with yours). Are you saying that some > people never see my messages on this Group? > > Since this is not the first occurance by far of redundant information > being posted numerous times over the years, after I've already posted > identical information, I've often wondered why anyone who would read > my info and continue to post the same information, seemingly as if > ignoring my posts -- or so it has appeared. I never understood the > purpose for doing so, but if they've never seen the initial post then > they would have no way of even knowing it existed, which would explain > this behavior. I'm still at a loss though, to figure out how > Yahoogroups can allow for messaging by some members, that cannot be > seen by other members, if that's what you're saying. > > I presume by "Tag" you mean Subject Line (???), I'm not quite sure, > but assume so. Here's where I don't understand why a message isn't > being read. Doesn't our Group site name appear in the subject line > regardless of where it's placed? -- I think I understand you to say it > may be in the beginning or at the end, but even so, with a short > subject name, it should still be viewable, or at least I would think > so. Thanks for your efforts in trying to explain this to me. Ray > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>, "Steve Szabo" <steve@...> wrote: > > > > Ray, > > > > The sort of messages in Outlook depends on whether the reply was written > > online in the website, or if it was written elsewhere. The RE: is placed > > differently--written outside the web site of the list it appears prior > > to the [Aquatic Life] tag, while written inside the list web site it > > appears after the tag.. I've read what I thought to be a thread, and > > replied, only to find out that the question has already been adequately > > answered elsewhere in my sort, but separate from the thread I replied > > to. > > > > For those of you who do this strictly online, the tag is added when the > > message is sent to a person's e-mail address (and what the heck are you > > doing reading and replying to this stuff online without having the > > flexibility that answering a post offline gives you?) > > > > \\Steve// > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] > > On Behalf Of Raymond Wetzel > > Sent: Saturday, June 20, 2009 5:21 PM > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Dr. Tims > > > > Funny . . . I thought I remembered reading some of the nearly exact same > > replies on this topic earlier this morning, somewhere around 9:30. If I > > didn't know any better, I'd have to think that you might not read all > > your emails for this Group -- or maybe just selectively read them (<G> > > LOL ROTFL). Ray > > > > > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>, "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" > > <GoldLenny@> wrote: > > > > > > Add it to your running tank (with no fish), then wait a few hours or > > until > > > the next day and then dose the tank with plain ammonia (3 drops per > > gallon) > > > and test the tank for ammonia, nitrite, nitrate. Test again in a few > > hours. > > > Post results. Within 12-24 hours, all of the ammonia should have been > > > converted to nitrate. If it did, then the Dr. Tim's was not damaged > > and is > > > working. At that point, it's safe to add your fish. If you do not > > have > > > your fish yet, then keep dosing the tank daily with the plain ammonia > > to > > > keep it "cycled" until you are ready to add the fish. > > > > > > When you took it out of the box, was it HOT or still reasonably cool > > (room > > > temperature)? If it didn't get too much over room temperature, then > > it > > > should not have been damaged. > > > > > > As far as the "dry ice was liquid", that's not possible since dry ice > > is > > > frozen CO2 and as it "melts" it actually turns into CO2 which is a > > gas, so > > > it doesn't actually melt, it evaporates as it warms up from its frozen > > > state. If it was one of those freezer packs like blue ice or > > something like > > > that, then that is not dry ice. If it was the blue ice type cooling > > > product, was it warm to the touch or was it still at least at room > > > temperature? > > > > > > Who did you order this from? Let other members know so they can be > > sure and > > > INFORM that company to do a better job of packing in the future. You > > should > > > also contact them with your complaint that they did NOT use enough > > cooling > > > product and/or insulation. > > > > > > On a side note, Dr. Tim is actually a member of this group so he may > > chime > > > in himself. You can also contact him directly by going to > > > http://DrTimsAquatics.com <http://DrTimsAquatics.com> or just > emailing him at > > > mailto:info@ and let him know the details of what > > > happened, so he can maybe provide the retailer with better > > packing/shipping > > > information.. maybe putting a sticker on the box to keep cool so the > > > delivery person would know to put the package in a shady place instead > > of > > > out in direct sunlight. > > > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the > > right > > > side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, > > Month) > > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] > > On > > > Behalf Of jan1213@ > > > Sent: Saturday, June 20, 2009 7:17 AM > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > Subject: [AquaticLife] Dr. Tims > > > > > > Dr. Tim's arrived yesterday...on my front porch in the heat...the dry > > ice > > > was liquid...How do I know this is still good......Jan How would I > > test > > > this? > > > > > > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 41125	From: Raymond Wetzel	Date: 6/20/2009
Subject: Re: Nuphar Stellata

Is this the water lily you bought -- Nuphar Stellata? It's also known as Nymphaea stellate (Dwarf Red Water Lily). Yes, these are true water lilies and bloom with light pink flowers. In the aquarium, this lily is often used free-floating, similar to how Water Hyacynth are used, but then they will not flower -- they won't get enough nutrients just from the water to be able to do this. They're just allowed to grow their floating leaves as surface cover. Some hobbyists use this strictly as a potted ornamental plant, allowing it to produce its submerged spear-shaped leaves but trimming any floating leaves off. It can't be expected to bloom under these conditions either. For it (or any water lily) to bloom, it must be potted and well fertilized and allowing its full growth of floating leaves from the substrate. Best if not grown too deep at first, perhaps supporting it in its pot on top of an inverted flower pot. As it grows, it can be lowered further. Ray --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, Amber Berglund <amber@...> wrote: > > Is the dwarf lily you buy from the LFS not the same as other Lilies? I > can't seem to find much info on them at all online except from sellers. > Do these types of Dwarf Lily's still bloom or no? > > Amber >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 41126	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 6/20/2009
Subject: Re: Ray Fan Club

Oopp.. I said 600 when I meant to type 1200. Was a 1200 baud modem similar to a 14.4 or would it have been like a 1.2? I'm thinking 1.2 but wanted to be sure. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Steve Szabo Sent: Saturday, June 20, 2009 2:15 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Ray Fan Club There were no 600 baud modems. I never worked with 120 baud, the speed used for teletypes, if anyone knows what they are. \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Lenny V. aka GoldLenny Sent: Saturday, June 20, 2009 2:57 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Ray Fan Club Wow.. I do not remember ever dealing with 300 or 600 baud modems. I seem to remember my first was a 14.4kbs but I could be wrong. I will admit that while I've used computers for a LONG time, I never really got onto the internet, probably until some time in the 80's, so \\Steve// has a few years ahead of me on the "net". Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of bill 1433 Sent: Saturday, June 20, 2009 12:31 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Ray Fan Club Thanks Steve!   I appreciate the information.  A bit of history and learning never hurts anyone!   Bill --- On Sat, 6/20/09, Steve Szabo <steve@...> wrote: From: Steve Szabo <steve@...> Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Ray Fan Club To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Date: Saturday, June 20, 2009, 12:47 PM The use of acronyms in online communications began back in the 70's even before the Internet was public and there was such a thing as the Web. They arose with the spread of personal computers. There were several systems used to connect BB's (Bulletin Boards) together. The one I am familiar with is FIDOnet. For those who do not know, BB's were one of the first means people had to communicate with one another via the computer. The acronyms came into use in self defense. One reason was lousy typing skills but a big reason was for speed. Way back then most used 300 baud modems, and a lucky few may have had 1200 baud. Baud is a rough equivalent of bits per second, but the two are not equal. When time-sharing outfits, such as CompuServe, started courting the new consumer market, time became an even bigger factor, since one was charged by the minute for use, more during business hours, less on off hours. \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of bill 1433 Sent: Saturday, June 20, 2009 8:06 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Ray Fan Club Lenny, Donna does just fine but I realize others may have a problem keeping up with her.  To that end I offer:http://www.acronymfinder.com/ That should keep everyone on the same page!  But a general Internet Question here for anyone?  Where or when did the use of these Acronym's first start?  From the start up of the "Texting" with the cell phone's? ol' bill---------always playing catch-up but willing to learn --- On Fri, 6/19/09, Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@...> wrote: > From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@...> > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Ray Fan Club > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Date: Friday, June 19, 2009, 9:46 PM > Donna, > > You're going to cause Google to crash, with Ol' Bill having to look up > all them acronyms.  LOL > > And that is a fact, IMO... or would that be IMHO? > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles > referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically > under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) >  > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] > On > Behalf Of Donna Ransome > Sent: Friday, June 19, 2009 5:47 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Ray Fan Club > > I know Ray too, but leave me out of that fogey group > please, LOL.  You > couldn't know a nicer person Amber.  But you > definitely have to be sure of > your info before you pass it along.  If you can say > IME that's best.  If you > have the citation, that's second best.  If you just > read it somewhere, > always a good idea to add a caveat like FWIW and could be > truth or myth. ------------------------------------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the home page. Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com to receive the digest, which includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com for the No E-Mail option where you will still be able to read messages on the group and post replies. Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com to receive individual e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 41127	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 6/20/2009
Subject: Re: Dr. Tims

Dr. Tim's doesn't have to be kept refrigerated any longer, although it has a longer shelf life if refrigerated. I think the shelf life at room temp is only six months nowadays. It does have to stay out of frozen or HOT conditions though. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Amber Berglund Sent: Saturday, June 20, 2009 4:00 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Dr. Tims From personal experience if a box says "Perishable" I do NOT leave them in the sun when I leave them at houses, and if there is no shade I don't like leaving the box at all, I often will stick it under a bush or a plant near the door and leave a note on the door so that the package does not sit directly in any sun. Although being in Alaska there isn't nearly as much sun as you poor people down south ;) LOL. How hot was it that day and was the package sitting in the sun? Was the package even labeled as perishable? We (fed Ex) are also not allowed to accept dry ice in my town (had a customer ruin it for everyone else, go figure), so all of our perishables are supposed to have gel ice packs instead of dry ice, but we occasionally have some sneak through the system (dry ice packages). Gel Ice packs will remain cool to the touch for awhile after they have melted to a liquid form as a couple of people have pointed out I think. If packed properly Gel ice packs can keep a cool temperature in a box for up to 48 hours, just depends on how well the shipper insulated the package and taped it up. If you can't tell I spent a couple years packaging and shipping frozen seafood and shipping it out to the lower united states, so I have a little bit of experience on how well the gel ice packs work ;) A lot of people would call us and say, "our fish is thawed is it still safe to eat?" So we would then have to explain that as long as the seafood is still cold to the touch it is still safe to eat and can be used right away (or put in the fridge to use the next day, or refrozen if needed, but the thawed pieces should be used right away). Needless to say if Dr. Tim's is safe at room temperatures for a little while then your product may still be safe if it was still somewhat cool inside of the package. Did you put it in the fridge right away? Amber Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > > > Add it to your running tank (with no fish), then wait a few hours or > until the next day and then dose the tank with plain ammonia (3 drops > per > gallon) > and test the tank for ammonia, nitrite, nitrate. Test again in a few > hours. > Post results. Within 12-24 hours, all of the ammonia should have been > converted to nitrate. If it did, then the Dr. Tim's was not damaged > and is working. At that point, it's safe to add your fish. If you do > not have your fish yet, then keep dosing the tank daily with the plain > ammonia to keep it "cycled" until you are ready to add the fish. > > When you took it out of the box, was it HOT or still reasonably cool > (room temperature)? If it didn't get too much over room temperature, > then it should not have been damaged. > > As far as the "dry ice was liquid", that's not possible since dry ice > is frozen CO2 and as it "melts" it actually turns into CO2 which is a > gas, so it doesn't actually melt, it evaporates as it warms up from > its frozen state. If it was one of those freezer packs like blue ice > or something like that, then that is not dry ice. If it was the blue > ice type cooling product, was it warm to the touch or was it still at > least at room temperature? > > Who did you order this from? Let other members know so they can be > sure and INFORM that company to do a better job of packing in the > future. You should also contact them with your complaint that they did > NOT use enough cooling product and/or insulation. > > On a side note, Dr. Tim is actually a member of this group so he may > chime in himself. You can also contact him directly by going to > http://DrTimsAquatics.com <http://DrTimsAquatics.com> or just emailing > him at mailto:info@... > <mailto:info%40drtimsaquatics.com> and let him know the details of > what happened, so he can maybe provide the retailer with better > packing/shipping information.. maybe putting a sticker on the box to > keep cool so the delivery person would know to put the package in a > shady place instead of out in direct sunlight. > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> (Links to any articles referenced in > above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels > and also under Archives by Year, Month) > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On Behalf Of jan1213@... > <mailto:jan1213%40aol.com> > Sent: Saturday, June 20, 2009 7:17 AM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Subject: [AquaticLife] Dr. Tims > > Dr. Tim's arrived yesterday...on my front porch in the heat...the dry > ice was liquid...How do I know this is still good......Jan How would I > test this?

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 41128	From: biG poppa	Date: 6/20/2009
Subject: Re: Ray Fan Club

1200 and 2400 baun rate when i started using the net. Jake --- On Sat, 6/20/09, Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@...> wrote: From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@...> Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Ray Fan Club To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Date: Saturday, June 20, 2009, 7:31 PM Oopp.. I said 600 when I meant to type 1200. Was a 1200 baud modem similar to a 14.4 or would it have been like a 1.2? I'm thinking 1.2 but wanted to be sure. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com [mailto:AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com] On Behalf Of Steve Szabo Sent: Saturday, June 20, 2009 2:15 PM To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Ray Fan Club There were no 600 baud modems. I never worked with 120 baud, the speed used for teletypes, if anyone knows what they are. \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com [mailto:AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com] On Behalf Of Lenny V. aka GoldLenny Sent: Saturday, June 20, 2009 2:57 PM To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Ray Fan Club Wow.. I do not remember ever dealing with 300 or 600 baud modems. I seem to remember my first was a 14.4kbs but I could be wrong. I will admit that while I've used computers for a LONG time, I never really got onto the internet, probably until some time in the 80's, so \\Steve// has a few years ahead of me on the "net". Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com [mailto:AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com] On Behalf Of bill 1433 Sent: Saturday, June 20, 2009 12:31 PM To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Ray Fan Club Thanks Steve!   I appreciate the information.  A bit of history and learning never hurts anyone!   Bill --- On Sat, 6/20/09, Steve Szabo <steve@familyszabo. com> wrote: From: Steve Szabo <steve@familyszabo. com> Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Ray Fan Club To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com Date: Saturday, June 20, 2009, 12:47 PM The use of acronyms in online communications began back in the 70's even before the Internet was public and there was such a thing as the Web. They arose with the spread of personal computers. There were several systems used to connect BB's (Bulletin Boards) together. The one I am familiar with is FIDOnet. For those who do not know, BB's were one of the first means people had to communicate with one another via the computer. The acronyms came into use in self defense. One reason was lousy typing skills but a big reason was for speed. Way back then most used 300 baud modems, and a lucky few may have had 1200 baud. Baud is a rough equivalent of bits per second, but the two are not equal. When time-sharing outfits, such as CompuServe, started courting the new consumer market, time became an even bigger factor, since one was charged by the minute for use, more during business hours, less on off hours. \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com [mailto:AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com] On Behalf Of bill 1433 Sent: Saturday, June 20, 2009 8:06 AM To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Ray Fan Club Lenny, Donna does just fine but I realize others may have a problem keeping up with her.  To that end I offer:http://www.acronymf inder.com/ That should keep everyone on the same page!  But a general Internet Question here for anyone?  Where or when did the use of these Acronym's first start?  From the start up of the "Texting" with the cell phone's? ol' bill-------- -always playing catch-up but willing to learn --- On Fri, 6/19/09, Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@gmail. com> wrote: > From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@gmail. com> > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Ray Fan Club > To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com > Date: Friday, June 19, 2009, 9:46 PM > Donna, > > You're going to cause Google to crash, with Ol' Bill having to look up > all them acronyms.  LOL > > And that is a fact, IMO... or would that be IMHO? > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com (Links to any articles > referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically > under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) >  > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com > [mailto:AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com] > On > Behalf Of Donna Ransome > Sent: Friday, June 19, 2009 5:47 PM > To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Ray Fan Club > > I know Ray too, but leave me out of that fogey group > please, LOL.  You > couldn't know a nicer person Amber.  But you > definitely have to be sure of > your info before you pass it along.  If you can say > IME that's best.  If you > have the citation, that's second best.  If you just > read it somewhere, > always a good idea to add a caveat like FWIW and could be > truth or myth. ------------ --------- --------- ------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the home page. Or e-mail aquaticlife- digest@yahoogrou ps.com to receive the digest, which includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email Or email aquaticlife- nomail@yahoogrou ps.com for the No E-Mail option where you will still be able to read messages on the group and post replies. Or email aquaticlife- normal@yahoogrou ps.com to receive individual e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 41129	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 6/20/2009
Subject: Re: OT: Blindness Cure May Lie in Aquarium

Poor Zebra Danios. They get so much of the experimentation done on them. I know it's needed but you still gotta feel sorry for the little guys and gals. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Steve Szabo Sent: Saturday, June 20, 2009 2:00 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] OT: Blindness Cure May Lie in Aquarium This is kind of off topic for this list, but I thought a number of you may have some interest. The following link gives a brief description of some ongoing research with zebrafish and their ability to grow new eye cells. http://www.canada.com/technology/science/Blindness+cure+aquarium/1510343 /story.html TinyURL: http://tinyurl.com/n3enp2 \\Steve//

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 41130	From: Raymond Wetzel	Date: 6/20/2009
Subject: Re: Dr. Tims

I've noticed others' emails having the "Re:" in different locations at times, as you're saying, although I really didn't know how or why that occured. Still, the entire subject should be visable to anyone scanning down their email list. Your only explanation as to how my early posts can be missed would have to occur if the emails were sorted differently, as you're saying, but then I'm still confused in that if they are sorted by subject -- I would think that my replies, even though sent after the original post would still have to appear (with the same subject line) in view of a later prospective poster regardless of where it might be placed in order of date (time). Still a puzzle to me, but thanks for trying to come up with an answer. Ray --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, Amber Berglund <amber@...> wrote: > > I see what \\Steve// is saying now that I saw your recent post here. > When you reply from the website it puts your Re: after the group name > [AquaticLife] and before the subject of the post. When I hit reply in my > email program it puts the Re: before the entire subject line including > the group name. Perhaps yahoo sorts alphabetically and when the Re: > moves that changes how they sort the messages? Or it's how your own > email program sorts them. I sort by date, so the newest post is at the > top of my email list. Perhaps Lenny sorts his differently by subject and > that is why he replied to the original poster before reading your post > Ray? This is just my best guess, but I can see how that could change how > email programs sort the emails if it's done by subject and not date. > > Amber > > Raymond Wetzel wrote: > > > > > > \\Steve//, I'm trying to follow you on this, but right off the bat I > > don't understand why you are bringing up "Outlook". Are you saying > > that Lenny uses Outlook whereas most others don't? -- and that, that's > > where the problem lies? I always reply by going to our group web site > > and enter my messages from there after opening the poster's message > > (which I'm doing right now with yours). Are you saying that some > > people never see my messages on this Group? > > > > Since this is not the first occurance by far of redundant information > > being posted numerous times over the years, after I've already posted > > identical information, I've often wondered why anyone who would read > > my info and continue to post the same information, seemingly as if > > ignoring my posts -- or so it has appeared. I never understood the > > purpose for doing so, but if they've never seen the initial post then > > they would have no way of even knowing it existed, which would explain > > this behavior. I'm still at a loss though, to figure out how > > Yahoogroups can allow for messaging by some members, that cannot be > > seen by other members, if that's what you're saying. > > > > I presume by "Tag" you mean Subject Line (???), I'm not quite sure, > > but assume so. Here's where I don't understand why a message isn't > > being read. Doesn't our Group site name appear in the subject line > > regardless of where it's placed? -- I think I understand you to say it > > may be in the beginning or at the end, but even so, with a short > > subject name, it should still be viewable, or at least I would think > > so. Thanks for your efforts in trying to explain this to me. Ray > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>, "Steve Szabo" <steve@> wrote: > > > > > > Ray, > > > > > > The sort of messages in Outlook depends on whether the reply was written > > > online in the website, or if it was written elsewhere. The RE: is placed > > > differently--written outside the web site of the list it appears prior > > > to the [Aquatic Life] tag, while written inside the list web site it > > > appears after the tag.. I've read what I thought to be a thread, and > > > replied, only to find out that the question has already been adequately > > > answered elsewhere in my sort, but separate from the thread I replied > > > to. > > > > > > For those of you who do this strictly online, the tag is added when the > > > message is sent to a person's e-mail address (and what the heck are you > > > doing reading and replying to this stuff online without having the > > > flexibility that answering a post offline gives you?) > > > > > > \\Steve// > > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] > > > On Behalf Of Raymond Wetzel > > > Sent: Saturday, June 20, 2009 5:21 PM > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Dr. Tims > > > > > > Funny . . . I thought I remembered reading some of the nearly exact same > > > replies on this topic earlier this morning, somewhere around 9:30. If I > > > didn't know any better, I'd have to think that you might not read all > > > your emails for this Group -- or maybe just selectively read them (<G> > > > LOL ROTFL). Ray > > > > > > > > > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>, "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" > > > <GoldLenny@> wrote: > > > > > > > > Add it to your running tank (with no fish), then wait a few hours or > > > until > > > > the next day and then dose the tank with plain ammonia (3 drops per > > > gallon) > > > > and test the tank for ammonia, nitrite, nitrate. Test again in a few > > > hours. > > > > Post results. Within 12-24 hours, all of the ammonia should have been > > > > converted to nitrate. If it did, then the Dr. Tim's was not damaged > > > and is > > > > working. At that point, it's safe to add your fish. If you do not > > > have > > > > your fish yet, then keep dosing the tank daily with the plain ammonia > > > to > > > > keep it "cycled" until you are ready to add the fish. > > > > > > > > When you took it out of the box, was it HOT or still reasonably cool > > > (room > > > > temperature)? If it didn't get too much over room temperature, then > > > it > > > > should not have been damaged. > > > > > > > > As far as the "dry ice was liquid", that's not possible since dry ice > > > is > > > > frozen CO2 and as it "melts" it actually turns into CO2 which is a > > > gas, so > > > > it doesn't actually melt, it evaporates as it warms up from its frozen > > > > state. If it was one of those freezer packs like blue ice or > > > something like > > > > that, then that is not dry ice. If it was the blue ice type cooling > > > > product, was it warm to the touch or was it still at least at room > > > > temperature? > > > > > > > > Who did you order this from? Let other members know so they can be > > > sure and > > > > INFORM that company to do a better job of packing in the future. You > > > should > > > > also contact them with your complaint that they did NOT use enough > > > cooling > > > > product and/or insulation. > > > > > > > > On a side note, Dr. Tim is actually a member of this group so he may > > > chime > > > > in himself. You can also contact him directly by going to > > > > http://DrTimsAquatics.com <http://DrTimsAquatics.com> or just > > emailing him at > > > > mailto:info@ and let him know the details of what > > > > happened, so he can maybe provide the retailer with better > > > packing/shipping > > > > information.. maybe putting a sticker on the box to keep cool so the > > > > delivery person would know to put the package in a shady place instead > > > of > > > > out in direct sunlight. > > > > > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > > (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the > > > right > > > > side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, > > > Month) > > > > > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] > > > On > > > > Behalf Of jan1213@ > > > > Sent: Saturday, June 20, 2009 7:17 AM > > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > Subject: [AquaticLife] Dr. Tims > > > > > > > > Dr. Tim's arrived yesterday...on my front porch in the heat...the dry > > > ice > > > > was liquid...How do I know this is still good......Jan How would I > > > test > > > > this? > > > > > > > > > > > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 41131	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 6/20/2009
Subject: Re: Pond plants for use in a fish tank, questions.

Wow.. I'm surprised there's only nine States that they won't ship to. Most places consider it a VERY non-native invasive species. Of course, they may not ship up there to you or to HI regardless. Aren't there any places up there where Water Hyacinth grows wild? Maybe it won't survive your winters but it was getting to the point down here in LA, maybe 20-30 years ago, that they brought in a fish that eats the roots, to kill it back. Of course, now that fish is invasive. LOL They eventually came up with a couple of Beetles that started keeping it under control. (NO.. not Paul and Ringo) Leave it to Guv'ment to go from one SNAFU to another SNAFU while only costing us a few trillion dollars. Look at the bright side though... you're closer to Canada so after the Guv'ment wrecks our healthcare system, we'll all be going up there. I might have to go to Cuba or Mexico for my healthcare.. I think they're closer than Canada. LOL OK.. back to Water Hyacinths. The stalks and flowers do grow pretty tall... at least taller than the hood and light on your tank, unless it's suspended from the ceiling. You can kind of see that in the picture on that link you gave. This profile says they only grow to a height of 6" but I think that is on the low end. I've seen them as high as the side of a flat boat when out fishing in da Bayous down here. http://www.ces.ncsu.edu/depts/hort/consumer/factsheets/water-garden/floating plants/eichornia_crassipes.html This site from Washington State Dept. Of Ecology, http://www.ecy.wa.gov/programs/wq/plants/weeds/aqua010.html says "If a cold-resistant ecotype should develop, the species may become capable of surviving western Washington winters. Because water hyacinth reproduces sexually by seeds, the chances are higher of developing a cold-tolerant ecotype than if it reproduced only vegetatively." If a morph might survive Western Washington State winters, then they might survive yours as well. I kind of remember that someone was talking about using them as a base for a Bio-Fuel since they are so prolific down here but I haven't read much on it. Does this mean we would have to have ponds on the roofs of our cars... or maybe in the bed of my pick-up? LOL Of course, looking at the price they're charging on that site, $3.95 each, I might have to get me a flat boat and start selling Water Hyacinth over the net. LOL Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Amber Berglund Sent: Saturday, June 20, 2009 4:09 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Pond plants for use in a fish tank, questions. Okay I got a dwarf lily for my 125 gallon and I love it, I know that they use nutrients really well which is also good I suppose, hopefully it will help outcompete the black beard algae ;) My question is this, has anyone kept WATER HYACINTH in their indoor fish tanks? I want to know how invasive it is, is it like duckweed or not as bad? Does it mind a current in the tank or should it be in a tank with not much surface water current? How tall do the flowers grow? Guess I had a couple questions ;) LOL. I was looking at this site for plants and they have a decent selection for pond plants at least ;) http://www.waterplants.com/cgi-bin/db.cgi?FLOATING+and+OXYGENATORS&&sf1=Cate gory Amber

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 41132	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 6/20/2009
Subject: Re: Nuphar Stellata

Yes this is the water lily I bought, thank you for pointing out the other known name. I have mine planted in my walstad tank, so it seems to be getting enough nutrients from the soil and detritus. It's gotten huge and I've only had it for a couple of weeks. It was just a sprouted bulb as the rest of the plant fell off on the way home from the LFS, guess it was a rough ride in the car ;). There are 5 floating leaves so far and one more on it's way up to the surface. The bottom of the plant is about 5 inches wide with about 15 leaves or so, nice big and bushy plant in the middle of my tank at the back. I love it and so do the platy fry ;) LOL. So basically I should just wait and see if it blooms? I don't trim it at all, I like the floating leaves, and it hasn't taken over the top of the tank so I'm not too worried about that, it's a big tank. Amber Raymond Wetzel wrote: > > > Is this the water lily you bought -- Nuphar Stellata? It's also known > as Nymphaea stellate (Dwarf Red Water Lily). Yes, these are true water > lilies and bloom with light pink flowers. In the aquarium, this lily > is often used free-floating, similar to how Water Hyacynth are used, > but then they will not flower -- they won't get enough nutrients just > from the water to be able to do this. They're just allowed to grow > their floating leaves as surface cover. Some hobbyists use this > strictly as a potted ornamental plant, allowing it to produce its > submerged spear-shaped leaves but trimming any floating leaves off. It > can't be expected to bloom under these conditions either. For it (or > any water lily) to bloom, it must be potted and well fertilized and > allowing its full growth of floating leaves from the substrate. Best > if not grown too deep at first, perhaps supporting it in its pot on > top of an inverted flower pot. As it grows, it can be lowered further. > Ray > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>, Amber Berglund <amber@...> wrote: > > > > Is the dwarf lily you buy from the LFS not the same as other Lilies? I > > can't seem to find much info on them at all online except from sellers. > > Do these types of Dwarf Lily's still bloom or no? > > > > Amber > > > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 41133	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 6/20/2009
Subject: Re: Ray Fan Club

I remember having a 1200 baud modem... those were the days ;) And I'm only 30, LOL. I was a computer geek from a young age though ;) Amber Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > > > Oopp.. I said 600 when I meant to type 1200. Was a 1200 baud modem similar > to a 14.4 or would it have been like a 1.2? I'm thinking 1.2 but wanted to > be sure. > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right > side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) > > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On > Behalf Of Steve Szabo > Sent: Saturday, June 20, 2009 2:15 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Ray Fan Club > > There were no 600 baud modems. I never worked with 120 baud, the speed > used > for teletypes, if anyone knows what they are. > > \\Steve// > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On > Behalf Of Lenny V. aka GoldLenny > Sent: Saturday, June 20, 2009 2:57 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Ray Fan Club > > Wow.. I do not remember ever dealing with 300 or 600 baud modems. I > seem to > remember my first was a 14.4kbs but I could be wrong. I will admit that > while I've used computers for a LONG time, I never really got onto the > internet, probably until some time in the 80's, so \\Steve// has a few > years > ahead of me on the "net". > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> (Links to any articles referenced > in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under > Labels and > also under Archives by Year, Month) > > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On > Behalf Of bill 1433 > Sent: Saturday, June 20, 2009 12:31 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Ray Fan Club > > Thanks Steve! > > I appreciate the information. A bit of history and learning never hurts > anyone! > > Bill > > --- On Sat, 6/20/09, Steve Szabo <steve@... > <mailto:steve%40familyszabo.com>> wrote: > > From: Steve Szabo <steve@... <mailto:steve%40familyszabo.com>> > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Ray Fan Club > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Date: Saturday, June 20, 2009, 12:47 PM > > The use of acronyms in online communications began back in the 70's even > before the Internet was public and there was such a thing as the Web. They > arose with the spread of personal computers. There were several > systems used > to connect BB's (Bulletin Boards) together. The one I am familiar with is > FIDOnet. For those who do not know, BB's were one of the first means > people > had to communicate with one another via the computer. The acronyms > came into > use in self defense. One reason was lousy typing skills but a big > reason was > for speed. Way back then most used 300 baud modems, and a lucky few > may have > had 1200 baud. Baud is a rough equivalent of bits per second, but the two > are not equal. > > When time-sharing outfits, such as CompuServe, started courting the new > consumer market, time became an even bigger factor, since one was > charged by > the minute for use, more during business hours, less on off hours. > > \\Steve// > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On > Behalf Of bill 1433 > Sent: Saturday, June 20, 2009 8:06 AM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Ray Fan Club > > Lenny, Donna does just fine but I realize others may have a problem > keeping > up with her. To that end I offer:http://www.acronymfinder.com/ > <http://www.acronymfinder.com/> > > That should keep everyone on the same page! But a general Internet > Question > here for anyone? Where or when did the use of these Acronym's first > start? > >From the start up of the "Texting" with the cell phone's? > > ol' bill---------always playing catch-up but willing to learn > > --- On Fri, 6/19/09, Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@... > <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com>> wrote: > > > From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@... > <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com>> > > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Ray Fan Club > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > Date: Friday, June 19, 2009, 9:46 PM > > Donna, > > > > You're going to cause Google to crash, with Ol' Bill having to look up > > all them acronyms. LOL > > > > And that is a fact, IMO... or would that be IMHO? > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> (Links to any articles > > referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically > > under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] > > On > > Behalf Of Donna Ransome > > Sent: Friday, June 19, 2009 5:47 PM > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Ray Fan Club > > > > I know Ray too, but leave me out of that fogey group > > please, LOL. You > > couldn't know a nicer person Amber. But you > > definitely have to be sure of > > your info before you pass it along. If you can say > > IME that's best. If you > > have the citation, that's second best. If you just > > read it somewhere, > > always a good idea to add a caveat like FWIW and could be > > truth or myth. > > ------------------------------------ > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. > ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> > PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to > the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the > SUBJECT > LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- > <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. > > If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of unsubscribing, you > can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the > home page. > > Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:aquaticlife-digest%40yahoogroups.com> to receive the digest, which > includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email > > Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:aquaticlife-nomail%40yahoogroups.com> for the No E-Mail option > where > you will still be able to read messages on the group and post replies. > > Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:aquaticlife-normal%40yahoogroups.com> to receive individual > e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 41134	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 6/20/2009
Subject: Re: OT: Blindness Cure May Lie in Aquarium

I agree, I enjoy their business in my fish tanks, I don't have the zebra ones, but I like glofish and the "purple passion danio's" Amber Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > > > Poor Zebra Danios. They get so much of the experimentation done on them. I > know it's needed but you still gotta feel sorry for the little guys and > gals. > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right > side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) > > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On > Behalf Of Steve Szabo > Sent: Saturday, June 20, 2009 2:00 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Subject: [AquaticLife] OT: Blindness Cure May Lie in Aquarium > > This is kind of off topic for this list, but I thought a number of you may > have some interest. The following link gives a brief description of some > ongoing research with zebrafish and their ability to grow new eye cells. > > http://www.canada.com/technology/science/Blindness+cure+aquarium/1510343 > <http://www.canada.com/technology/science/Blindness+cure+aquarium/1510343> > /story.html > TinyURL: http://tinyurl.com/n3enp2 <http://tinyurl.com/n3enp2> > > \\Steve// > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 41135	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 6/20/2009
Subject: Re: Dr. Tims

Subjects are usually alphabetical on email sorting, so it would sort all the emails that started with Re: in one spot, and then everything that starts with [aquaticlife] Re: and the subject name would be in another spot... They could be separated by other posts in between and if the poster is just going down the line they may not notice yours at the bottom or top in a different spot. Just a theory. Amber Raymond Wetzel wrote: > > > I've noticed others' emails having the "Re:" in different locations at > times, as you're saying, although I really didn't know how or why that > occured. Still, the entire subject should be visable to anyone > scanning down their email list. Your only explanation as to how my > early posts can be missed would have to occur if the emails were > sorted differently, as you're saying, but then I'm still confused in > that if they are sorted by subject -- I would think that my replies, > even though sent after the original post would still have to appear > (with the same subject line) in view of a later prospective poster > regardless of where it might be placed in order of date (time). Still > a puzzle to me, but thanks for trying to come up with an answer. Ray > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>, Amber Berglund <amber@...> wrote: > > > > I see what \\Steve// is saying now that I saw your recent post here. > > When you reply from the website it puts your Re: after the group name > > [AquaticLife] and before the subject of the post. When I hit reply > in my > > email program it puts the Re: before the entire subject line including > > the group name. Perhaps yahoo sorts alphabetically and when the Re: > > moves that changes how they sort the messages? Or it's how your own > > email program sorts them. I sort by date, so the newest post is at the > > top of my email list. Perhaps Lenny sorts his differently by subject > and > > that is why he replied to the original poster before reading your post > > Ray? This is just my best guess, but I can see how that could change > how > > email programs sort the emails if it's done by subject and not date. > > > > Amber > > > > Raymond Wetzel wrote: > > > > > > > > > \\Steve//, I'm trying to follow you on this, but right off the bat I > > > don't understand why you are bringing up "Outlook". Are you saying > > > that Lenny uses Outlook whereas most others don't? -- and that, > that's > > > where the problem lies? I always reply by going to our group web site > > > and enter my messages from there after opening the poster's message > > > (which I'm doing right now with yours). Are you saying that some > > > people never see my messages on this Group? > > > > > > Since this is not the first occurance by far of redundant information > > > being posted numerous times over the years, after I've already posted > > > identical information, I've often wondered why anyone who would read > > > my info and continue to post the same information, seemingly as if > > > ignoring my posts -- or so it has appeared. I never understood the > > > purpose for doing so, but if they've never seen the initial post then > > > they would have no way of even knowing it existed, which would > explain > > > this behavior. I'm still at a loss though, to figure out how > > > Yahoogroups can allow for messaging by some members, that cannot be > > > seen by other members, if that's what you're saying. > > > > > > I presume by "Tag" you mean Subject Line (???), I'm not quite sure, > > > but assume so. Here's where I don't understand why a message isn't > > > being read. Doesn't our Group site name appear in the subject line > > > regardless of where it's placed? -- I think I understand you to > say it > > > may be in the beginning or at the end, but even so, with a short > > > subject name, it should still be viewable, or at least I would think > > > so. Thanks for your efforts in trying to explain this to me. Ray > > > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>, "Steve Szabo" <steve@> wrote: > > > > > > > > Ray, > > > > > > > > The sort of messages in Outlook depends on whether the reply was > written > > > > online in the website, or if it was written elsewhere. The RE: > is placed > > > > differently--written outside the web site of the list it appears > prior > > > > to the [Aquatic Life] tag, while written inside the list web site it > > > > appears after the tag.. I've read what I thought to be a thread, and > > > > replied, only to find out that the question has already been > adequately > > > > answered elsewhere in my sort, but separate from the thread I > replied > > > > to. > > > > > > > > For those of you who do this strictly online, the tag is added > when the > > > > message is sent to a person's e-mail address (and what the heck > are you > > > > doing reading and replying to this stuff online without having the > > > > flexibility that answering a post offline gives you?) > > > > > > > > \\Steve// > > > > > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] > > > > On Behalf Of Raymond Wetzel > > > > Sent: Saturday, June 20, 2009 5:21 PM > > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Dr. Tims > > > > > > > > Funny . . . I thought I remembered reading some of the nearly > exact same > > > > replies on this topic earlier this morning, somewhere around > 9:30. If I > > > > didn't know any better, I'd have to think that you might not > read all > > > > your emails for this Group -- or maybe just selectively read > them (<G> > > > > LOL ROTFL). Ray > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>, "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" > > > > <GoldLenny@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > Add it to your running tank (with no fish), then wait a few > hours or > > > > until > > > > > the next day and then dose the tank with plain ammonia (3 > drops per > > > > gallon) > > > > > and test the tank for ammonia, nitrite, nitrate. Test again in > a few > > > > hours. > > > > > Post results. Within 12-24 hours, all of the ammonia should > have been > > > > > converted to nitrate. If it did, then the Dr. Tim's was not > damaged > > > > and is > > > > > working. At that point, it's safe to add your fish. If you do not > > > > have > > > > > your fish yet, then keep dosing the tank daily with the plain > ammonia > > > > to > > > > > keep it "cycled" until you are ready to add the fish. > > > > > > > > > > When you took it out of the box, was it HOT or still > reasonably cool > > > > (room > > > > > temperature)? If it didn't get too much over room temperature, > then > > > > it > > > > > should not have been damaged. > > > > > > > > > > As far as the "dry ice was liquid", that's not possible since > dry ice > > > > is > > > > > frozen CO2 and as it "melts" it actually turns into CO2 which is a > > > > gas, so > > > > > it doesn't actually melt, it evaporates as it warms up from > its frozen > > > > > state. If it was one of those freezer packs like blue ice or > > > > something like > > > > > that, then that is not dry ice. If it was the blue ice type > cooling > > > > > product, was it warm to the touch or was it still at least at room > > > > > temperature? > > > > > > > > > > Who did you order this from? Let other members know so they can be > > > > sure and > > > > > INFORM that company to do a better job of packing in the > future. You > > > > should > > > > > also contact them with your complaint that they did NOT use enough > > > > cooling > > > > > product and/or insulation. > > > > > > > > > > On a side note, Dr. Tim is actually a member of this group so > he may > > > > chime > > > > > in himself. You can also contact him directly by going to > > > > > http://DrTimsAquatics.com <http://DrTimsAquatics.com> > <http://DrTimsAquatics.com <http://DrTimsAquatics.com>> or just > > > emailing him at > > > > > mailto:info@ and let him know the details of what > > > > > happened, so he can maybe provide the retailer with better > > > > packing/shipping > > > > > information.. maybe putting a sticker on the box to keep cool > so the > > > > > delivery person would know to put the package in a shady place > instead > > > > of > > > > > out in direct sunlight. > > > > > > > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > > > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>> > > > > > (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the > > > > right > > > > > side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, > > > > Month) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] > > > > On > > > > > Behalf Of jan1213@ > > > > > Sent: Saturday, June 20, 2009 7:17 AM > > > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > Subject: [AquaticLife] Dr. Tims > > > > > > > > > > Dr. Tim's arrived yesterday...on my front porch in the > heat...the dry > > > > ice > > > > > was liquid...How do I know this is still good......Jan How would I > > > > test > > > > > this? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 41136	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 6/20/2009
Subject: Re: Ray Fan Club

Dang Bill, Are you saying that \\Steve// is older than dirt? Or just older than an "old fogey"? LOL Now, if you mean the old monochromatic monitors that usually had either green or amber typing text ONLY and very little graphics, then I remember them... although mostly from the various Guv'ment offices I would have to deal with. Of course, my first couple of computers had monochrome monitors as well but I don't recall ever trying to get on the internet with them. When I first started surfing the net, I had a color monitor. After all, what good was it surfing the p_rn sites in green or amber? LOL Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of bill 1433 Sent: Saturday, June 20, 2009 4:18 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Ray Fan Club Len, If he is back far enough to remember "baud" modems, he's far enough back to remember the infamous Black Screen. For you younger folks, that's before Windows! ol' bill --- On Sat, 6/20/09, Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@...> wrote: > From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@...> > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Ray Fan Club > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Date: Saturday, June 20, 2009, 2:57 PM Wow.. I do not remember ever > dealing with 300 or 600 baud modems.  I seem to remember my first was > a 14.4kbs but I could be wrong. > I will admit that > while I've used computers for a LONG time, I never really got onto the > internet, probably until some time in the 80's, so \\Steve// has a few > years ahead of me on the "net". > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles > referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically > under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) > > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] > On > Behalf Of bill 1433 > Sent: Saturday, June 20, 2009 12:31 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Ray Fan Club > > > Thanks Steve! >   > I appreciate the information.  A bit of history and > learning never hurts > anyone! >   > Bill > > --- On Sat, 6/20/09, Steve Szabo <steve@...> > wrote: > > > From: Steve Szabo <steve@...> > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Ray Fan Club > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Date: Saturday, June 20, 2009, 12:47 PM > > > The use of acronyms in online communications began back in > the 70's even > before the Internet was public and there was such a thing > as the Web. They > arose with the spread of personal computers. There were > several systems used > to connect BB's (Bulletin Boards) together. The one I am > familiar with is > FIDOnet. For those who do not know, BB's were one of the > first means people > had to communicate with one another via the computer. The > acronyms came into > use in self defense. One reason was lousy typing skills but > a big reason was > for speed. Way back then most used 300 baud modems, and a > lucky few may have > had 1200 baud. Baud is a rough equivalent of bits per > second, but the two > are not equal. > > When time-sharing outfits, such as CompuServe, started > courting the new > consumer market, time became an even bigger factor, since > one was charged by > the minute for use, more during business hours, less on off > hours. > > \\Steve// > > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] > On > Behalf Of bill 1433 > Sent: Saturday, June 20, 2009 8:06 AM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Ray Fan Club > > > Lenny, Donna does just fine but I realize others may have a > problem keeping > up with her.  To that end I offer:http://www.acronymfinder.com/ > > That should keep everyone on the same page!  But a general > Internet Question > here for anyone?  Where or when did the use of these > Acronym's first start?  > From the start up of the "Texting" with the cell phone's? > > ol' bill---------always playing catch-up but willing to > learn > > > --- On Fri, 6/19/09, Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@...> > wrote: > > > From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@...> > > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Ray Fan Club > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > Date: Friday, June 19, 2009, 9:46 PM > > Donna, > > > > You're going to cause Google to crash, with Ol' Bill > having to look up > > all them acronyms.  LOL > > > > And that is a fact, IMO... or would that be IMHO? > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to > any articles > > referenced in above reply are listed on the right > side, alphabetically > > under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) > >  > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] > > On > > Behalf Of Donna Ransome > > Sent: Friday, June 19, 2009 5:47 PM > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Ray Fan Club > > > > I know Ray too, but leave me out of that fogey group > > please, LOL.  You > > couldn't know a nicer person Amber.  But you > > definitely have to be sure of > > your info before you pass it along.  If you can say > > IME that's best.  If you > > have the citation, that's second best.  If you just > > read it somewhere, > > always a good idea to add a caveat like FWIW and could > be > > truth or myth.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 41137	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 6/20/2009
Subject: Re: Dr. Tims (now SeaChem Flourish)

There's a bunch of SeaChem Flourish products http://www.seachem.com/Products/product_pages/Flourish.html Here's a snip from the Directions on the main page.... "Refrigeration after opening is recommended but not required." but I didn't look at all six of the products. You can look at each one and their directions from the above link. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of biG poppa Sent: Saturday, June 20, 2009 4:21 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Dr. Tims Now there in the subject Seachem Flourish states in the bottle that it must be refrigerated. Does it really have to be? is my question

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 41138	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 6/20/2009
Subject: Re: Pond plants for use in a fish tank, questions.

I have never seen water hyacinth here, so perhaps no one has tried growing it. I have seen it down south when I was traveling though. I liked the purple flowers ;) LOL. My 125 gallon tank has the highest hood, it is wooden and suspended above the tank. The original design had hot lighting that required ventilation and enough air room to not heat up their tank (since it was a salt water tank), but before I purchased the tank they had removed the old lighting system and replaced it with the 4 x 65 watt CFL lighting system. It also had night lights but they were burnt out. I'm not sure if that would be enough lighting for water hyacinth or not. I use 6500 Kelvin range bulbs as well. The light bulbs are over a foot above the water, perhaps closer to a foot and a half away, and there is also more room above the light bulbs if I wanted to raise them up higher for some reason, though I have no plans on doing so. Amber Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > > > Wow.. I'm surprised there's only nine States that they won't ship to. Most > places consider it a VERY non-native invasive species. Of course, they may > not ship up there to you or to HI regardless. Aren't there any places up > there where Water Hyacinth grows wild? Maybe it won't survive your winters > but it was getting to the point down here in LA, maybe 20-30 years > ago, that > they brought in a fish that eats the roots, to kill it back. Of > course, now > that fish is invasive. LOL They eventually came up with a couple of > Beetles > that started keeping it under control. (NO.. not Paul and Ringo) > > Leave it to Guv'ment to go from one SNAFU to another SNAFU while only > costing us a few trillion dollars. Look at the bright side though... > you're > closer to Canada so after the Guv'ment wrecks our healthcare system, we'll > all be going up there. I might have to go to Cuba or Mexico for my > healthcare.. I think they're closer than Canada. LOL > > OK.. back to Water Hyacinths. The stalks and flowers do grow pretty > tall... > at least taller than the hood and light on your tank, unless it's > suspended > from the ceiling. You can kind of see that in the picture on that link you > gave. > > This profile says they only grow to a height of 6" but I think that is on > the low end. I've seen them as high as the side of a flat boat when out > fishing in da Bayous down here. > http://www.ces.ncsu.edu/depts/hort/consumer/factsheets/water-garden/floating > <http://www.ces.ncsu.edu/depts/hort/consumer/factsheets/water-garden/floating> > plants/eichornia_crassipes.html > > This site from Washington State Dept. Of Ecology, > http://www.ecy.wa.gov/programs/wq/plants/weeds/aqua010.html > <http://www.ecy.wa.gov/programs/wq/plants/weeds/aqua010.html> says "If a > cold-resistant ecotype should develop, the species may become capable of > surviving western Washington winters. Because water hyacinth reproduces > sexually by seeds, the chances are higher of developing a cold-tolerant > ecotype than if it reproduced only vegetatively." If a morph might survive > Western Washington State winters, then they might survive yours as well. > > I kind of remember that someone was talking about using them as a base > for a > Bio-Fuel since they are so prolific down here but I haven't read much > on it. > Does this mean we would have to have ponds on the roofs of our cars... or > maybe in the bed of my pick-up? LOL > > Of course, looking at the price they're charging on that site, $3.95 > each, I > might have to get me a flat boat and start selling Water Hyacinth over the > net. LOL > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right > side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On > Behalf Of Amber Berglund > Sent: Saturday, June 20, 2009 4:09 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Subject: [AquaticLife] Pond plants for use in a fish tank, questions. > > Okay I got a dwarf lily for my 125 gallon and I love it, I know that they > use nutrients really well which is also good I suppose, hopefully it will > help outcompete the black beard algae ;) My question is this, has anyone > kept WATER HYACINTH in their indoor fish tanks? I want to know how > invasive > it is, is it like duckweed or not as bad? Does it mind a current in > the tank > or should it be in a tank with not much surface water current? How tall do > the flowers grow? > Guess I had a couple questions ;) LOL. > I was looking at this site for plants and they have a decent selection for > pond plants at least ;) > http://www.waterplants.com/cgi-bin/db.cgi?FLOATING+and+OXYGENATORS&&sf1=Cate > <http://www.waterplants.com/cgi-bin/db.cgi?FLOATING+and+OXYGENATORS&&sf1=Cate> > gory > > Amber > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 41139	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 6/20/2009
Subject: Re: Dr. Tims

YEP.. I saw your nearly exact reply when I finally got down to it. I start reading my oldest mail first and answer as I go. Best case is I repeat some good advice to reinforce things. Does this mean I can start calling you Daddy or Paw-Paw? LMAO Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Raymond Wetzel Sent: Saturday, June 20, 2009 4:21 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Dr. Tims Funny . . . I thought I remembered reading some of the nearly exact same replies on this topic earlier this morning, somewhere around 9:30. If I didn't know any better, I'd have to think that you might not read all your emails for this Group -- or maybe just selectively read them (<G> LOL ROTFL). Ray --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@...> wrote: > > Add it to your running tank (with no fish), then wait a few hours or > until the next day and then dose the tank with plain ammonia (3 drops > per gallon) and test the tank for ammonia, nitrite, nitrate. Test again in a few hours. > Post results. Within 12-24 hours, all of the ammonia should have been > converted to nitrate. If it did, then the Dr. Tim's was not damaged > and is working. At that point, it's safe to add your fish. If you do > not have your fish yet, then keep dosing the tank daily with the plain > ammonia to keep it "cycled" until you are ready to add the fish. > > When you took it out of the box, was it HOT or still reasonably cool > (room temperature)? If it didn't get too much over room temperature, > then it should not have been damaged. > > As far as the "dry ice was liquid", that's not possible since dry ice > is frozen CO2 and as it "melts" it actually turns into CO2 which is a > gas, so it doesn't actually melt, it evaporates as it warms up from > its frozen state. If it was one of those freezer packs like blue ice > or something like that, then that is not dry ice. If it was the blue > ice type cooling product, was it warm to the touch or was it still at > least at room temperature? > > Who did you order this from? Let other members know so they can be > sure and INFORM that company to do a better job of packing in the > future. You should also contact them with your complaint that they > did NOT use enough cooling product and/or insulation. > > On a side note, Dr. Tim is actually a member of this group so he may > chime in himself. You can also contact him directly by going to > http://DrTimsAquatics.com or just emailing him at mailto:info@... and > let him know the details of what happened, so he can maybe provide the > retailer with better packing/shipping information.. maybe putting a > sticker on the box to keep cool so the delivery person would know to > put the package in a shady place instead of out in direct sunlight. > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles > referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically > under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) > > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] > On Behalf Of jan1213@... > Sent: Saturday, June 20, 2009 7:17 AM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Subject: [AquaticLife] Dr. Tims > > Dr. Tim's arrived yesterday...on my front porch in the heat...the dry > ice was liquid...How do I know this is still good......Jan How would I > test this?

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 41140	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 6/20/2009
Subject: Re: Dr. Tims

You better stay down there on the floor when you read my reply. ;-) You might even end up ROTFLYAO at my reply. ;-) Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of bill 1433 Sent: Saturday, June 20, 2009 5:12 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: Dr. Tims ROTFL? Go Ray! Bill --- On Sat, 6/20/09, Raymond Wetzel <sevenspringss@...> wrote: > From: Raymond Wetzel <sevenspringss@...> > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Dr. Tims > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Date: Saturday, June 20, 2009, 5:20 PM Funny . . . I thought I > remembered reading some of the nearly exact same replies on this topic > earlier this morning, somewhere around 9:30.  If I didn't know any > better, I'd have to think that you might not read all your emails for > this Group -- or maybe just selectively read them (<G> LOL ROTFL).  > Ray > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, > "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@...> wrote: > > > > Add it to your running tank (with no fish), then wait > a few hours or until > > the next day and then dose the tank with plain ammonia > (3 drops per gallon) > > and test the tank for ammonia, nitrite, nitrate. > Test again in a few hours. > > Post results.  Within 12-24 hours, all of the > ammonia should have been > > converted to nitrate.  If it did, then the Dr. > Tim's was not damaged and is > > working.  At that point, it's safe to add your > fish.  If you do not have > > your fish yet, then keep dosing the tank daily with > the plain ammonia to > > keep it "cycled" until you are ready to add the fish. > > > > When you took it out of the box, was it HOT or still > reasonably cool (room > > temperature)?  If it didn't get too much over > room temperature, then it > > should not have been damaged. > > > > As far as the "dry ice was liquid", that's not > possible since dry ice is > > frozen CO2 and as it "melts" it actually turns into > CO2 which is a gas, so > > it doesn't actually melt, it evaporates as it warms up > from its frozen > > state.  If it was one of those freezer packs like > blue ice or something like > > that, then that is not dry ice.  If it was the > blue ice type cooling > > product, was it warm to the touch or was it still at > least at room > > temperature? > > > > Who did you order this from?  Let other members > know so they can be sure and > > INFORM that company to do a better job of packing in > the future.  You should > > also contact them with your complaint that they did > NOT use enough cooling > > product and/or insulation. > > > > On a side note, Dr. Tim is actually a member of this > group so he may chime > > in himself.  You can also contact him directly by > going to > > http://DrTimsAquatics.com or just emailing him at mailto:info@... > > and let him know the details of what happened, so he can maybe > > provide the retailer with > better packing/shipping > > information.. maybe putting a sticker on the box to > keep cool so the > > delivery person would know to put the package in a > shady place instead of > > out in direct sunlight. > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles > > referenced in above reply are > listed on the right > > side, alphabetically under Labels and also under > Archives by Year, Month) > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] > On > > Behalf Of jan1213@... > > Sent: Saturday, June 20, 2009 7:17 AM > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > Subject: [AquaticLife] Dr. Tims > > > > Dr. Tim's arrived yesterday...on my front porch in the > heat...the dry ice > > was liquid...How do I know this is still good......Jan > How would I test > > this? > > > > > > > ------------------------------------ > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank > You. > ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> > ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> > PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT > important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message > MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- > <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. > , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. > > If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of unsubscribing, > you can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My > Membership" on the home page. > > Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com > to receive the digest, which includes up to 25 posts at a time in a > single email > > Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com > for the No E-Mail option where you will still be able to read messages > on the group and post replies. > > Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com > to receive individual e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links > > >     mailto:AquaticLife-fullfeatured@yahoogroups.com > > > ------------------------------------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the home page. Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com to receive the digest, which includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com for the No E-Mail option where you will still be able to read messages on the group and post replies. Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com to receive individual e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 41141	From: bill 1433	Date: 6/20/2009
Subject: Re: Ray Fan Club

I'm going to let \\Steve// handle this one although right now I know that he's tied up with giving special help to one of our own. What he tried to explain in another post was the use of Teletype equipment and the purpose he was using it for. I'm not sure if you would understand the complete detail of what he was trying to explain. It happens I do because of my extensive background in Amateur Radio (Ham)I used very similar equipment. At the time the speed and accuracy of the equipment were considered very advanced. Bill --- On Sat, 6/20/09, Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@...> wrote: > From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@...> > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Ray Fan Club > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Date: Saturday, June 20, 2009, 8:07 PM > Dang Bill, > > Are you saying that \\Steve// is older than dirt?  Or > just older than an > "old fogey"?  LOL > > Now, if you mean the old monochromatic monitors that > usually had either > green or amber typing text ONLY and very little graphics, > then I remember > them... although mostly from the various Guv'ment offices I > would have to > deal with.  Of course, my first couple of computers > had monochrome monitors > as well but I don't recall ever trying to get on the > internet with them. > When I first started surfing the net, I had a color > monitor.  After all, > what good was it surfing the p_rn sites in green or > amber?  LOL > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed > on the right > side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives > by Year, Month) > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] > On > Behalf Of bill 1433 > Sent: Saturday, June 20, 2009 4:18 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Ray Fan Club > > > Len, > > If he is back far enough to remember "baud" modems, he's > far enough back to > remember the infamous Black Screen.  > For you younger folks, that's before Windows! > > ol' bill > > --- On Sat, 6/20/09, Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@...> > wrote: > > > From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@...> > > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Ray Fan Club > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > Date: Saturday, June 20, 2009, 2:57 PM Wow.. I do not > remember ever > > dealing with 300 or 600 baud modems.  I seem to > remember my first was > > a 14.4kbs but I could be wrong. > > I will admit that > > while I've used computers for a LONG time, I never > really got onto the > > internet, probably until some time in the 80's, so > \\Steve// has a few > > years ahead of me on the "net". > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to > any articles > > referenced in above reply are listed on the right > side, alphabetically > > under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) > >  > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] > > On > > Behalf Of bill 1433 > > Sent: Saturday, June 20, 2009 12:31 PM > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Ray Fan Club > > > > > > Thanks Steve! > >   > > I appreciate the information.  A bit of history and > > learning never hurts > > anyone! > >   > > Bill > > > > --- On Sat, 6/20/09, Steve Szabo <steve@...> > > wrote: > > > > > > From: Steve Szabo <steve@...> > > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Ray Fan Club > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > Date: Saturday, June 20, 2009, 12:47 PM > > > > > > The use of acronyms in online communications began > back in > > the 70's even > > before the Internet was public and there was such a > thing > > as the Web. They > > arose with the spread of personal computers. There > were > > several systems used > > to connect BB's (Bulletin Boards) together. The one I > am > > familiar with is > > FIDOnet. For those who do not know, BB's were one of > the > > first means people > > had to communicate with one another via the computer. > The > > acronyms came into > > use in self defense. One reason was lousy typing > skills but > > a big reason was > > for speed. Way back then most used 300 baud modems, > and a > > lucky few may have > > had 1200 baud. Baud is a rough equivalent of bits per > > second, but the two > > are not equal. > > > > When time-sharing outfits, such as CompuServe, > started > > courting the new > > consumer market, time became an even bigger factor, > since > > one was charged by > > the minute for use, more during business hours, less > on off > > hours. > > > > \\Steve// > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] > > On > > Behalf Of bill 1433 > > Sent: Saturday, June 20, 2009 8:06 AM > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Ray Fan Club > > > > > > Lenny, Donna does just fine but I realize others may > have a > > problem keeping > > up with her.  To that end I offer:http://www.acronymfinder.com/ > > > > That should keep everyone on the same page!  But a > general > > Internet Question > > here for anyone?  Where or when did the use of these > > Acronym's first start?  > > From the start up of the "Texting" with the cell > phone's? > > > > ol' bill---------always playing catch-up but willing > to > > learn > > > > > > --- On Fri, 6/19/09, Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@...> > > wrote: > > > > > From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@...> > > > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Ray Fan Club > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > > Date: Friday, June 19, 2009, 9:46 PM > > > Donna, > > > > > > You're going to cause Google to crash, with Ol' > Bill > > having to look up > > > all them acronyms.  LOL > > > > > > And that is a fact, IMO... or would that be > IMHO? > > > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to > > any articles > > > referenced in above reply are listed on the > right > > side, alphabetically > > > under Labels and also under Archives by Year, > Month) > > >  > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] > > > On > > > Behalf Of Donna Ransome > > > Sent: Friday, June 19, 2009 5:47 PM > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Ray Fan Club > > > > > > I know Ray too, but leave me out of that fogey > group > > > please, LOL.  You > > > couldn't know a nicer person Amber.  But you > > > definitely have to be sure of > > > your info before you pass it along.  If you can > say > > > IME that's best.  If you > > > have the citation, that's second best.  If you > just > > > read it somewhere, > > > always a good idea to add a caveat like FWIW and > could > > be > > > truth or myth. > > > > ------------------------------------ > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when > replying, Thank You. > ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> > ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> > PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is > NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of > the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new > subject (was re: old subject)" <- > <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. > , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. > > If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of > unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by > clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the home page.  > > Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com > to receive the digest, which includes up to 25 posts at a > time in a single email > > Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com > for the No E-Mail option where you will still be able to > read messages on the group and post replies. > > Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com > to receive individual e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links > > >     mailto:AquaticLife-fullfeatured@yahoogroups.com > > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 41142	From: Raymond Wetzel	Date: 6/20/2009
Subject: Re: Nuphar Stellata

\\Steve//, Water Lilies (Nuphar, more often referred to as Nymphaea), have either bulbs or tubers -- depending on their General type. Tropical water lilies have bulbs, while hardy water lilies have tubers. Both are in the Genus Nymphaea. Nymphaea (Nuphar) stellata is a tropical water lily. Ray --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Steve Szabo" <steve@...> wrote: > > Amber, > > If the dwarf lily is from a bulb, it is from a different genus than the water lily we normally think of. If it grows from a tuber, it is a "real" water lily. > > Nuphar is a genus related to that of the commonly purchased water lilies. Beyond the difference in the leaf shape and structure, and flowers, I do not know what else is different about them. > > \\Steve// > > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Amber Berglund > Sent: Saturday, June 20, 2009 6:01 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Subject: [AquaticLife] Nuphar Stellata > > Is the dwarf lily you buy from the LFS not the same as other Lilies? I > can't seem to find much info on them at all online except from sellers. > Do these types of Dwarf Lily's still bloom or no? > > Amber > > > ------------------------------------ > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. > ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> > PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- > <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. > > If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the home page. > > Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com to receive the digest, which includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email > > Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com for the No E-Mail option where you will still be able to read messages on the group and post replies. > > Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com to receive individual e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 41143	From: Raymond Wetzel	Date: 6/20/2009
Subject: Re: Dr. Tims

Okay, That's explains it -- plain, pure and simple. Obviously never expected such an easy explanation, probably as when I see a new subject, I just automatically scan my eyes down the mail box to see if there are other replies, then open them -- as I then like to get the whole picture of what's going on to be able to give the best response available in light of what has already been said. This eliminates redundant information at the same time, but is not my purpose in doing so. I prefer to get the whole picture (so never thought of your post by post reading). Many thanks, my curiousity has been satisfied. Ray --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@...> wrote: > > YEP.. I saw your nearly exact reply when I finally got down to it. I start > reading my oldest mail first and answer as I go. Best case is I repeat some > good advice to reinforce things. > > Does this mean I can start calling you Daddy or Paw-Paw? LMAO > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right > side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) > > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On > Behalf Of Raymond Wetzel > Sent: Saturday, June 20, 2009 4:21 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Dr. Tims > > Funny . . . I thought I remembered reading some of the nearly exact same > replies on this topic earlier this morning, somewhere around 9:30. If I > didn't know any better, I'd have to think that you might not read all your > emails for this Group -- or maybe just selectively read them (<G> LOL > ROTFL). Ray > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@> > wrote: > > > > Add it to your running tank (with no fish), then wait a few hours or > > until the next day and then dose the tank with plain ammonia (3 drops > > per gallon) and test the tank for ammonia, nitrite, nitrate. Test again > in a few hours. > > Post results. Within 12-24 hours, all of the ammonia should have been > > converted to nitrate. If it did, then the Dr. Tim's was not damaged > > and is working. At that point, it's safe to add your fish. If you do > > not have your fish yet, then keep dosing the tank daily with the plain > > ammonia to keep it "cycled" until you are ready to add the fish. > > > > When you took it out of the box, was it HOT or still reasonably cool > > (room temperature)? If it didn't get too much over room temperature, > > then it should not have been damaged. > > > > As far as the "dry ice was liquid", that's not possible since dry ice > > is frozen CO2 and as it "melts" it actually turns into CO2 which is a > > gas, so it doesn't actually melt, it evaporates as it warms up from > > its frozen state. If it was one of those freezer packs like blue ice > > or something like that, then that is not dry ice. If it was the blue > > ice type cooling product, was it warm to the touch or was it still at > > least at room temperature? > > > > Who did you order this from? Let other members know so they can be > > sure and INFORM that company to do a better job of packing in the > > future. You should also contact them with your complaint that they > > did NOT use enough cooling product and/or insulation. > > > > On a side note, Dr. Tim is actually a member of this group so he may > > chime in himself. You can also contact him directly by going to > > http://DrTimsAquatics.com or just emailing him at mailto:info@ and > > let him know the details of what happened, so he can maybe provide the > > retailer with better packing/shipping information.. maybe putting a > > sticker on the box to keep cool so the delivery person would know to > > put the package in a shady place instead of out in direct sunlight. > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles > > referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically > > under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] > > On Behalf Of jan1213@ > > Sent: Saturday, June 20, 2009 7:17 AM > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > Subject: [AquaticLife] Dr. Tims > > > > Dr. Tim's arrived yesterday...on my front porch in the heat...the dry > > ice was liquid...How do I know this is still good......Jan How would I > > test this? >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 41144	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 6/20/2009
Subject: Re: OT: Blindness Cure May Lie in Aquarium

You gotta remember though.. that the Glo-fish Zebra Danios also came as a result of experiments on Zebra Danios (aka Zebra fish) for detection of water pollution purposes. I guess we'll have "Three Blind Fish" or "Ray Charles" fish some time in the future after these experiments are done. Their commercials will sound something like this... Three blind fish, Three blind fish, See how they swim, See how they swim! They all swam after The fisherman's wife She cut off their tails With a carving knife Did you ever see Such a sight in your life As three blind fish? Or maybe this... Blind fishie, Blind fishie, the whole tank's for you Just an old UGF filter Keeps Blind fishie on my mind Talkin' 'bout Blind fishie I said Blind fishie A song for you Comes as clean and clear as lunar lighting at night Other fish swim right by you Other fish with eyes eat your food Still in peaceful dreams you don't see The water flow leads back to you I gotta admit... I think I have too much time on my hands today... and that the re-write of Three Blind Fish was a lot easier than Blind Fishie. LOL Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Amber Berglund Sent: Saturday, June 20, 2009 7:05 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] OT: Blindness Cure May Lie in Aquarium I agree, I enjoy their business in my fish tanks, I don't have the zebra ones, but I like glofish and the "purple passion danio's" Amber Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > > > Poor Zebra Danios. They get so much of the experimentation done on > them. I know it's needed but you still gotta feel sorry for the little > guys and gals. > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> (Links to any articles referenced in > above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels > and also under Archives by Year, Month) > > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On Behalf Of Steve Szabo > Sent: Saturday, June 20, 2009 2:00 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Subject: [AquaticLife] OT: Blindness Cure May Lie in Aquarium > > This is kind of off topic for this list, but I thought a number of you > may have some interest. The following link gives a brief description > of some ongoing research with zebrafish and their ability to grow new eye cells. > > http://www.canada.com/technology/science/Blindness+cure+aquarium/15103 > 43 > <http://www.canada.com/technology/science/Blindness+cure+aquarium/1510 > 343> > /story.html > TinyURL: http://tinyurl.com/n3enp2 <http://tinyurl.com/n3enp2> > > \\Steve//

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 41145	From: biG poppa	Date: 6/20/2009
Subject: Re: OT: Blindness Cure May Lie in Aquarium

oh boy having fun There GoldSingerLenny? --- On Sat, 6/20/09, Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@...> wrote: From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@...> Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] OT: Blindness Cure May Lie in Aquarium To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Date: Saturday, June 20, 2009, 8:41 PM You gotta remember though.. that the Glo-fish Zebra Danios also came as a result of experiments on Zebra Danios (aka Zebra fish) for detection of water pollution purposes. I guess we'll have "Three Blind Fish" or "Ray Charles" fish some time in the future after these experiments are done. Their commercials will sound something like this... Three blind fish, Three blind fish, See how they swim, See how they swim! They all swam after The fisherman's wife She cut off their tails With a carving knife Did you ever see Such a sight in your life As three blind fish? Or maybe this... Blind fishie, Blind fishie, the whole tank's for you Just an old UGF filter Keeps Blind fishie on my mind Talkin' 'bout Blind fishie I said Blind fishie A song for you Comes as clean and clear as lunar lighting at night Other fish swim right by you Other fish with eyes eat your food Still in peaceful dreams you don't see The water flow leads back to you I gotta admit... I think I have too much time on my hands today... and that the re-write of Three Blind Fish was a lot easier than Blind Fishie. LOL Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com [mailto:AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com] On Behalf Of Amber Berglund Sent: Saturday, June 20, 2009 7:05 PM To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] OT: Blindness Cure May Lie in Aquarium I agree, I enjoy their business in my fish tanks, I don't have the zebra ones, but I like glofish and the "purple passion danio's" Amber Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > > > Poor Zebra Danios. They get so much of the experimentation done on > them. I know it's needed but you still gotta feel sorry for the little > guys and gals. > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com > <http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com> (Links to any articles referenced in > above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels > and also under Archives by Year, Month) > > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com > <mailto:AquaticLife %40yahoogroups. com> > [mailto:AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com > <mailto:AquaticLife %40yahoogroups. com>] On Behalf Of Steve Szabo > Sent: Saturday, June 20, 2009 2:00 PM > To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com <mailto:AquaticLife %40yahoogroups. com> > Subject: [AquaticLife] OT: Blindness Cure May Lie in Aquarium > > This is kind of off topic for this list, but I thought a number of you > may have some interest. The following link gives a brief description > of some ongoing research with zebrafish and their ability to grow new eye cells. > > http://www.canada. com/technology/ science/Blindnes s+cure+aquarium/ 15103 > 43 > <http://www.canada. com/technology/ science/Blindnes s+cure+aquarium/ 1510 > 343> > /story.html > TinyURL: http://tinyurl. com/n3enp2 <http://tinyurl. com/n3enp2> > > \\Steve// [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 41146	From: pam andress	Date: 6/20/2009
Subject: Re: OT: Blindness Cure May Lie in Aquarium

I think you are sick Lenny, loll Pam To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com From: GoldLenny@... Date: Sat, 20 Jun 2009 19:41:04 -0500 Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] OT: Blindness Cure May Lie in Aquarium You gotta remember though.. that the Glo-fish Zebra Danios also came as a result of experiments on Zebra Danios (aka Zebra fish) for detection of water pollution purposes. I guess we'll have "Three Blind Fish" or "Ray Charles" fish some time in the future after these experiments are done. Their commercials will sound something like this... Three blind fish, Three blind fish, See how they swim, See how they swim! They all swam after The fisherman's wife She cut off their tails With a carving knife Did you ever see Such a sight in your life As three blind fish? Or maybe this... Blind fishie, Blind fishie, the whole tank's for you Just an old UGF filter Keeps Blind fishie on my mind Talkin' 'bout Blind fishie I said Blind fishie A song for you Comes as clean and clear as lunar lighting at night Other fish swim right by you Other fish with eyes eat your food Still in peaceful dreams you don't see The water flow leads back to you I gotta admit... I think I have too much time on my hands today... and that the re-write of Three Blind Fish was a lot easier than Blind Fishie. LOL Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Amber Berglund Sent: Saturday, June 20, 2009 7:05 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] OT: Blindness Cure May Lie in Aquarium I agree, I enjoy their business in my fish tanks, I don't have the zebra ones, but I like glofish and the "purple passion danio's" Amber Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > > > Poor Zebra Danios. They get so much of the experimentation done on > them. I know it's needed but you still gotta feel sorry for the little > guys and gals. > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> (Links to any articles referenced in > above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels > and also under Archives by Year, Month) > > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On Behalf Of Steve Szabo > Sent: Saturday, June 20, 2009 2:00 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Subject: [AquaticLife] OT: Blindness Cure May Lie in Aquarium > > This is kind of off topic for this list, but I thought a number of you > may have some interest. The following link gives a brief description > of some ongoing research with zebrafish and their ability to grow new eye cells. > > http://www.canada.com/technology/science/Blindness+cure+aquarium/15103 > 43 > <http://www.canada.com/technology/science/Blindness+cure+aquarium/1510 > 343> > /story.html > TinyURL: http://tinyurl.com/n3enp2 <http://tinyurl.com/n3enp2> > > \\Steve// [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 41147	From: Donna Ransome	Date: 6/20/2009
Subject: Re: OT: Blindness Cure May Lie in Aquarium

From 7:41pm today until this post I got every post twice. Now it seems to be back to single posts. What happened? _____ From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of biG poppa Sent: Saturday, June 20, 2009 8:48 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] OT: Blindness Cure May Lie in Aquarium oh boy having fun There GoldSingerLenny? --- On Sat, 6/20/09, Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@gmail. <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com> com> wrote: From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@gmail. <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com> com> Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] OT: Blindness Cure May Lie in Aquarium To: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com Date: Saturday, June 20, 2009, 8:41 PM You gotta remember though.. that the Glo-fish Zebra Danios also came as a result of experiments on Zebra Danios (aka Zebra fish) for detection of water pollution purposes. I guess we'll have "Three Blind Fish" or "Ray Charles" fish some time in the future after these experiments are done. Their commercials will sound something like this... Three blind fish, Three blind fish, See how they swim, See how they swim! They all swam after The fisherman's wife She cut off their tails With a carving knife Did you ever see Such a sight in your life As three blind fish? Or maybe this... Blind fishie, Blind fishie, the whole tank's for you Just an old UGF filter Keeps Blind fishie on my mind Talkin' 'bout Blind fishie I said Blind fishie A song for you Comes as clean and clear as lunar lighting at night Other fish swim right by you Other fish with eyes eat your food Still in peaceful dreams you don't see The water flow leads back to you I gotta admit... I think I have too much time on my hands today... and that the re-write of Three Blind Fish was a lot easier than Blind Fishie. LOL Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com [mailto:AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com] On Behalf Of Amber Berglund Sent: Saturday, June 20, 2009 7:05 PM To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] OT: Blindness Cure May Lie in Aquarium I agree, I enjoy their business in my fish tanks, I don't have the zebra ones, but I like glofish and the "purple passion danio's" Amber Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > > > Poor Zebra Danios. They get so much of the experimentation done on > them. I know it's needed but you still gotta feel sorry for the little > guys and gals. > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com > <http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com> (Links to any articles referenced in > above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels > and also under Archives by Year, Month) > > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com > <mailto:AquaticLife %40yahoogroups. com> > [mailto:AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com > <mailto:AquaticLife %40yahoogroups. com>] On Behalf Of Steve Szabo > Sent: Saturday, June 20, 2009 2:00 PM > To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com <mailto:AquaticLife %40yahoogroups. com> > Subject: [AquaticLife] OT: Blindness Cure May Lie in Aquarium > > This is kind of off topic for this list, but I thought a number of you > may have some interest. The following link gives a brief description > of some ongoing research with zebrafish and their ability to grow new eye cells. > > http://www.canada. com/technology/ science/Blindnes s+cure+aquarium/ 15103 > 43 > <http://www.canada. com/technology/ science/Blindnes s+cure+aquarium/ 1510 > 343> > /story.html > TinyURL: http://tinyurl. com/n3enp2 <http://tinyurl. com/n3enp2> > > \\Steve// [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 41148	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 6/20/2009
Subject: Re: OT: Blindness Cure May Lie in Aquarium

You're just jealous that you didn't author the re-write of "Three Blind Mice". ;-) I kept looking for an easy Ray Charles or Stevie Wonder song to re-write but couldn't fine one, so I figured I'd go with something like "Georgia On My Mind" so at least folks would know the music while they sang along with the new lyrics. You know that fish-keeping parents around the world will be singing the new classic nursery rhyme, "Three Blind Fish", to their kids tonight. Only the brave singers, who can hit the notes and make the runs, will attempt "Blind Fishie On My Mind". Y'all are also lucky that I'm not a big YouTuber or I might have made the music videos for these songs instead of just printing the lyrics. LOL Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of pam andress Sent: Saturday, June 20, 2009 8:48 PM To: aquaticlife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] OT: Blindness Cure May Lie in Aquarium I think you are sick Lenny, loll Pam To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com From: GoldLenny@... Date: Sat, 20 Jun 2009 19:41:04 -0500 Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] OT: Blindness Cure May Lie in Aquarium You gotta remember though.. that the Glo-fish Zebra Danios also came as a result of experiments on Zebra Danios (aka Zebra fish) for detection of water pollution purposes. I guess we'll have "Three Blind Fish" or "Ray Charles" fish some time in the future after these experiments are done. Their commercials will sound something like this... Three blind fish, Three blind fish, See how they swim, See how they swim! They all swam after The fisherman's wife She cut off their tails With a carving knife Did you ever see Such a sight in your life As three blind fish? Or maybe this... Blind fishie, Blind fishie, the whole tank's for you Just an old UGF filter Keeps Blind fishie on my mind Talkin' 'bout Blind fishie I said Blind fishie A song for you Comes as clean and clear as lunar lighting in your tank at night Other fish swim right by you Other fish with eyes eat your food Still in peaceful dreams you don't see The water flow leads back to you I gotta admit... I think I have too much time on my hands today... and that the re-write of Three Blind Fish was a lot easier than Blind Fishie. LOL Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Amber Berglund Sent: Saturday, June 20, 2009 7:05 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] OT: Blindness Cure May Lie in Aquarium I agree, I enjoy their business in my fish tanks, I don't have the zebra ones, but I like glofish and the "purple passion danio's" Amber Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > > > Poor Zebra Danios. They get so much of the experimentation done on > them. I know it's needed but you still gotta feel sorry for the little > guys and gals. > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> (Links to any articles referenced in > above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels > and also under Archives by Year, Month) > > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On Behalf Of Steve Szabo > Sent: Saturday, June 20, 2009 2:00 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Subject: [AquaticLife] OT: Blindness Cure May Lie in Aquarium > > This is kind of off topic for this list, but I thought a number of you > may have some interest. The following link gives a brief description > of some ongoing research with zebrafish and their ability to grow new > eye cells. > > http://www.canada.com/technology/science/Blindness+cure+aquarium/15103 > 43 > <http://www.canada.com/technology/science/Blindness+cure+aquarium/1510 > 343> > /story.html > TinyURL: http://tinyurl.com/n3enp2 <http://tinyurl.com/n3enp2> > > \\Steve//

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 41149	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 6/20/2009
Subject: Re: OT: Blindness Cure May Lie in Aquarium

It hasn't happened to me but then I have Gmail and Outlook so Gmail doesn't send duplicates to Outlook. I'll have to check the Gmail online interface to see if there are duplicates in there. I'll be back in a second. OK, I'm back. NOPE.. no duplicates in the Gmail website interface either. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Donna Ransome Sent: Saturday, June 20, 2009 8:57 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] OT: Blindness Cure May Lie in Aquarium From 7:41pm today until this post I got every post twice. Now it seems to be back to single posts. What happened? _____ From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of biG poppa Sent: Saturday, June 20, 2009 8:48 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] OT: Blindness Cure May Lie in Aquarium oh boy having fun There GoldSingerLenny? --- On Sat, 6/20/09, Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@gmail. <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com> com> wrote: From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@gmail. <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com> com> Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] OT: Blindness Cure May Lie in Aquarium To: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com Date: Saturday, June 20, 2009, 8:41 PM You gotta remember though.. that the Glo-fish Zebra Danios also came as a result of experiments on Zebra Danios (aka Zebra fish) for detection of water pollution purposes. I guess we'll have "Three Blind Fish" or "Ray Charles" fish some time in the future after these experiments are done. Their commercials will sound something like this... Three blind fish, Three blind fish, See how they swim, See how they swim! They all swam after The fisherman's wife She cut off their tails With a carving knife Did you ever see Such a sight in your life As three blind fish? Or maybe this... Blind fishie, Blind fishie, the whole tank's for you Just an old UGF filter Keeps Blind fishie on my mind Talkin' 'bout Blind fishie I said Blind fishie A song for you Comes as clean and clear as lunar lighting at night Other fish swim right by you Other fish with eyes eat your food Still in peaceful dreams you don't see The water flow leads back to you I gotta admit... I think I have too much time on my hands today... and that the re-write of Three Blind Fish was a lot easier than Blind Fishie. LOL Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com [mailto:AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com] On Behalf Of Amber Berglund Sent: Saturday, June 20, 2009 7:05 PM To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] OT: Blindness Cure May Lie in Aquarium I agree, I enjoy their business in my fish tanks, I don't have the zebra ones, but I like glofish and the "purple passion danio's" Amber Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > > > Poor Zebra Danios. They get so much of the experimentation done on > them. I know it's needed but you still gotta feel sorry for the little > guys and gals. > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com > <http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com> (Links to any articles referenced in > above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels > and also under Archives by Year, Month) > > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com > <mailto:AquaticLife %40yahoogroups. com> > [mailto:AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com > <mailto:AquaticLife %40yahoogroups. com>] On Behalf Of Steve Szabo > Sent: Saturday, June 20, 2009 2:00 PM > To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com <mailto:AquaticLife %40yahoogroups. > com> > Subject: [AquaticLife] OT: Blindness Cure May Lie in Aquarium > > This is kind of off topic for this list, but I thought a number of you > may have some interest. The following link gives a brief description > of some ongoing research with zebrafish and their ability to grow new > eye cells. > > http://www.canada. com/technology/ science/Blindnes s+cure+aquarium/ > 15103 > 43 > <http://www.canada. com/technology/ science/Blindnes s+cure+aquarium/ > 1510 > 343> > /story.html > TinyURL: http://tinyurl. com/n3enp2 <http://tinyurl. com/n3enp2> > > \\Steve//

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 41150	From: Jasmine	Date: 6/20/2009
Subject: Pelco verse Bristlenose

Can anyone tell me what the difference is between these two? Is it just terminology or is there a difference? I have what I've always called a male bristlenose – its about 5" and has bristles on its head. I have seen a few photos of Pelco's and they look so much like my bristlenose. Thanks Jasmine

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 41151	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 6/20/2009
Subject: Re: Dr. Tims

Ray, I was not referring to Lenny in my post, but myself. However, I know that Lenny also uses Outlook, and I am sure that many others do as well. When I look at messages on line, there is no tag in the subject line. This tag "[AquaticLife]" is seen by those who have the mail delivered to their mail server and then read it with a mail reader such as Outlook. I note now that this tag does not show online, even if the message is sent as a reply from outside the web site. It appears that Yahoo! strips it out. Now, for those of us not working within the online environment within the web site of the list, the original message will appear with a subject line looking like this: [AquaticLife] Dr. Tims The original message's subject shown in the web site appears like this: Dr. Tims Thus far, no problem, a thread has not developed. Now, if I was to reply to this message from my Outlook, the subject that comes back is: RE: [AquaticLife] Dr. Tims While you would see it on the web site as: Re: Dr. Tims Outlook will sort just fine with the first format shown here, the " RE: [AquaticLife] Dr. Tims" just fine because it will ignore the RE: at the beginning. The problem occurs when someone relies on the web site. The subject online will still look normal to you, but what shows up in the Inbox of a reader is very different. Online, you see: Re: Dr. Tims And you can sort the thread by that with no problem. They call it "group by topic" at Yahoo!. However, what I would see is: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: Dr. Tims And therein is the problem. For the sort, the first RE: is ignored, but the second is not, therefore the message gets sorted on the "Re:" and not the "Dr.". This puts that portion of the thread into another grouping of messages, all that have that subject. And, it can even get worse. Sometimes there are multiple "Re:"s in the subject line after the tag. This then throws the message into another sort group. So, for us who work offline, there is a problem. We will not see all the messages in a thread. We will read what is there, and reply to that. I am aware of this, but do not always have the time to look through the sort to see if there are any other pieces to the thread, thanks to Yahoo!'s crazy way of handling the messages going out since they can be widely separated from each other. What can be done about this? Forcing everyone to use a mail reader is not feasible. Yahoo! will not allow it, they want people to read the ads presented that help pay for the service. However, these tags are not mandatory. It may be time for those who run this list to take a look at the use of the tags and whether the use of the tag here should be continued. Outlook gives me the option of using color to show messages from a particular source, but not all readers do this. Perhaps a poll on the tag would give some useful information to those who would make the determination. There are lists here that do not have the tag in their subject line. \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Raymond Wetzel Sent: Saturday, June 20, 2009 6:46 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Dr. Tims \\Steve//, I'm trying to follow you on this, but right off the bat I don't understand why you are bringing up "Outlook". Are you saying that Lenny uses Outlook whereas most others don't? -- and that, that's where the problem lies? I always reply by going to our group web site and enter my messages from there after opening the poster's message (which I'm doing right now with yours). Are you saying that some people never see my messages on this Group? Since this is not the first occurance by far of redundant information being posted numerous times over the years, after I've already posted identical information, I've often wondered why anyone who would read my info and continue to post the same information, seemingly as if ignoring my posts -- or so it has appeared. I never understood the purpose for doing so, but if they've never seen the initial post then they would have no way of even knowing it existed, which would explain this behavior. I'm still at a loss though, to figure out how Yahoogroups can allow for messaging by some members, that cannot be seen by other members, if that's what you're saying. I presume by "Tag" you mean Subject Line (???), I'm not quite sure, but assume so. Here's where I don't understand why a message isn't being read. Doesn't our Group site name appear in the subject line regardless of where it's placed? -- I think I understand you to say it may be in the beginning or at the end, but even so, with a short subject name, it should still be viewable, or at least I would think so. Thanks for your efforts in trying to explain this to me. Ray --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Steve Szabo" <steve@...> wrote: > > Ray, > > The sort of messages in Outlook depends on whether the reply was written > online in the website, or if it was written elsewhere. The RE: is placed > differently--written outside the web site of the list it appears prior > to the [Aquatic Life] tag, while written inside the list web site it > appears after the tag.. I've read what I thought to be a thread, and > replied, only to find out that the question has already been adequately > answered elsewhere in my sort, but separate from the thread I replied > to. > > For those of you who do this strictly online, the tag is added when the > message is sent to a person's e-mail address (and what the heck are you > doing reading and replying to this stuff online without having the > flexibility that answering a post offline gives you?) > > \\Steve// > > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] > On Behalf Of Raymond Wetzel > Sent: Saturday, June 20, 2009 5:21 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Dr. Tims > > Funny . . . I thought I remembered reading some of the nearly exact same > replies on this topic earlier this morning, somewhere around 9:30. If I > didn't know any better, I'd have to think that you might not read all > your emails for this Group -- or maybe just selectively read them (<G> > LOL ROTFL). Ray > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" > <GoldLenny@> wrote: > > > > Add it to your running tank (with no fish), then wait a few hours or > until > > the next day and then dose the tank with plain ammonia (3 drops per > gallon) > > and test the tank for ammonia, nitrite, nitrate. Test again in a few > hours. > > Post results. Within 12-24 hours, all of the ammonia should have been > > converted to nitrate. If it did, then the Dr. Tim's was not damaged > and is > > working. At that point, it's safe to add your fish. If you do not > have > > your fish yet, then keep dosing the tank daily with the plain ammonia > to > > keep it "cycled" until you are ready to add the fish. > > > > When you took it out of the box, was it HOT or still reasonably cool > (room > > temperature)? If it didn't get too much over room temperature, then > it > > should not have been damaged. > > > > As far as the "dry ice was liquid", that's not possible since dry ice > is > > frozen CO2 and as it "melts" it actually turns into CO2 which is a > gas, so > > it doesn't actually melt, it evaporates as it warms up from its frozen > > state. If it was one of those freezer packs like blue ice or > something like > > that, then that is not dry ice. If it was the blue ice type cooling > > product, was it warm to the touch or was it still at least at room > > temperature? > > > > Who did you order this from? Let other members know so they can be > sure and > > INFORM that company to do a better job of packing in the future. You > should > > also contact them with your complaint that they did NOT use enough > cooling > > product and/or insulation. > > > > On a side note, Dr. Tim is actually a member of this group so he may > chime > > in himself. You can also contact him directly by going to > > http://DrTimsAquatics.com or just emailing him at > > mailto:info@ and let him know the details of what > > happened, so he can maybe provide the retailer with better > packing/shipping > > information.. maybe putting a sticker on the box to keep cool so the > > delivery person would know to put the package in a shady place instead > of > > out in direct sunlight. > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > > (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the > right > > side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, > Month) > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] > On > > Behalf Of jan1213@ > > Sent: Saturday, June 20, 2009 7:17 AM > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > Subject: [AquaticLife] Dr. Tims > > > > Dr. Tim's arrived yesterday...on my front porch in the heat...the dry > ice > > was liquid...How do I know this is still good......Jan How would I > test > > this? > > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 41152	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 6/20/2009
Subject: Re: Dr. Tims

Ray, When one receives approximately 200 e-mails a day, a quick scan is not all that feasible. And that is what I get just at home, and by the time I sit in front of the computer, I am lucky to get through all of them before I need to go to sleep. 5:30 comes awful early in the morning sometimes. \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Raymond Wetzel Sent: Saturday, June 20, 2009 7:56 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Dr. Tims I've noticed others' emails having the "Re:" in different locations at times, as you're saying, although I really didn't know how or why that occured. Still, the entire subject should be visable to anyone scanning down their email list. Your only explanation as to how my early posts can be missed would have to occur if the emails were sorted differently, as you're saying, but then I'm still confused in that if they are sorted by subject -- I would think that my replies, even though sent after the original post would still have to appear (with the same subject line) in view of a later prospective poster regardless of where it might be placed in order of date (time). Still a puzzle to me, but thanks for trying to come up with an answer. Ray --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, Amber Berglund <amber@...> wrote: > > I see what \\Steve// is saying now that I saw your recent post here. > When you reply from the website it puts your Re: after the group name > [AquaticLife] and before the subject of the post. When I hit reply in my > email program it puts the Re: before the entire subject line including > the group name. Perhaps yahoo sorts alphabetically and when the Re: > moves that changes how they sort the messages? Or it's how your own > email program sorts them. I sort by date, so the newest post is at the > top of my email list. Perhaps Lenny sorts his differently by subject and > that is why he replied to the original poster before reading your post > Ray? This is just my best guess, but I can see how that could change how > email programs sort the emails if it's done by subject and not date. > > Amber > > Raymond Wetzel wrote: > > > > > > \\Steve//, I'm trying to follow you on this, but right off the bat I > > don't understand why you are bringing up "Outlook". Are you saying > > that Lenny uses Outlook whereas most others don't? -- and that, that's > > where the problem lies? I always reply by going to our group web site > > and enter my messages from there after opening the poster's message > > (which I'm doing right now with yours). Are you saying that some > > people never see my messages on this Group? > > > > Since this is not the first occurance by far of redundant information > > being posted numerous times over the years, after I've already posted > > identical information, I've often wondered why anyone who would read > > my info and continue to post the same information, seemingly as if > > ignoring my posts -- or so it has appeared. I never understood the > > purpose for doing so, but if they've never seen the initial post then > > they would have no way of even knowing it existed, which would explain > > this behavior. I'm still at a loss though, to figure out how > > Yahoogroups can allow for messaging by some members, that cannot be > > seen by other members, if that's what you're saying. > > > > I presume by "Tag" you mean Subject Line (???), I'm not quite sure, > > but assume so. Here's where I don't understand why a message isn't > > being read. Doesn't our Group site name appear in the subject line > > regardless of where it's placed? -- I think I understand you to say it > > may be in the beginning or at the end, but even so, with a short > > subject name, it should still be viewable, or at least I would think > > so. Thanks for your efforts in trying to explain this to me. Ray > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>, "Steve Szabo" <steve@> wrote: > > > > > > Ray, > > > > > > The sort of messages in Outlook depends on whether the reply was written > > > online in the website, or if it was written elsewhere. The RE: is placed > > > differently--written outside the web site of the list it appears prior > > > to the [Aquatic Life] tag, while written inside the list web site it > > > appears after the tag.. I've read what I thought to be a thread, and > > > replied, only to find out that the question has already been adequately > > > answered elsewhere in my sort, but separate from the thread I replied > > > to. > > > > > > For those of you who do this strictly online, the tag is added when the > > > message is sent to a person's e-mail address (and what the heck are you > > > doing reading and replying to this stuff online without having the > > > flexibility that answering a post offline gives you?) > > > > > > \\Steve// > > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] > > > On Behalf Of Raymond Wetzel > > > Sent: Saturday, June 20, 2009 5:21 PM > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Dr. Tims > > > > > > Funny . . . I thought I remembered reading some of the nearly exact same > > > replies on this topic earlier this morning, somewhere around 9:30. If I > > > didn't know any better, I'd have to think that you might not read all > > > your emails for this Group -- or maybe just selectively read them (<G> > > > LOL ROTFL). Ray > > > > > > > > > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>, "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" > > > <GoldLenny@> wrote: > > > > > > > > Add it to your running tank (with no fish), then wait a few hours or > > > until > > > > the next day and then dose the tank with plain ammonia (3 drops per > > > gallon) > > > > and test the tank for ammonia, nitrite, nitrate. Test again in a few > > > hours. > > > > Post results. Within 12-24 hours, all of the ammonia should have been > > > > converted to nitrate. If it did, then the Dr. Tim's was not damaged > > > and is > > > > working. At that point, it's safe to add your fish. If you do not > > > have > > > > your fish yet, then keep dosing the tank daily with the plain ammonia > > > to > > > > keep it "cycled" until you are ready to add the fish. > > > > > > > > When you took it out of the box, was it HOT or still reasonably cool > > > (room > > > > temperature)? If it didn't get too much over room temperature, then > > > it > > > > should not have been damaged. > > > > > > > > As far as the "dry ice was liquid", that's not possible since dry ice > > > is > > > > frozen CO2 and as it "melts" it actually turns into CO2 which is a > > > gas, so > > > > it doesn't actually melt, it evaporates as it warms up from its frozen > > > > state. If it was one of those freezer packs like blue ice or > > > something like > > > > that, then that is not dry ice. If it was the blue ice type cooling > > > > product, was it warm to the touch or was it still at least at room > > > > temperature? > > > > > > > > Who did you order this from? Let other members know so they can be > > > sure and > > > > INFORM that company to do a better job of packing in the future. You > > > should > > > > also contact them with your complaint that they did NOT use enough > > > cooling > > > > product and/or insulation. > > > > > > > > On a side note, Dr. Tim is actually a member of this group so he may > > > chime > > > > in himself. You can also contact him directly by going to > > > > http://DrTimsAquatics.com <http://DrTimsAquatics.com> or just > > emailing him at > > > > mailto:info@ and let him know the details of what > > > > happened, so he can maybe provide the retailer with better > > > packing/shipping > > > > information.. maybe putting a sticker on the box to keep cool so the > > > > delivery person would know to put the package in a shady place instead > > > of > > > > out in direct sunlight. > > > > > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > > (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the > > > right > > > > side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, > > > Month) > > > > > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] > > > On > > > > Behalf Of jan1213@ > > > > Sent: Saturday, June 20, 2009 7:17 AM > > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > Subject: [AquaticLife] Dr. Tims > > > > > > > > Dr. Tim's arrived yesterday...on my front porch in the heat...the dry > > > ice > > > > was liquid...How do I know this is still good......Jan How would I > > > test > > > > this? > > > > > > > > > > > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 41153	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 6/20/2009
Subject: Re: Ray Fan Club

Lenny, That would be a 1.2 modem. From that they went to 2400, then 9600 (boy, that was blazing fast!), to 14.4, then to 28.8 (and you thought 9600 was fast!), then 33.6 (I think, may have been 33.2, I didn't do the math) and finally 56.6, which actually exceeds the capacity of the frequency used over a phone line, which is why you never saw the speed go over about 54K. There were some compression schemes built in to make the transfers go faster, but one needed the same type or brand and type of modem on both ends to achieve that. Then there was compression of files also, which led to the great compression war, which was won by PKZIP at the time, and a better compression algorithm fell to the backwaters of the Internet. Am I older than dirt (referring to a later reply)? No, there are lots of people around here older than I, Bill for example, as well as Ray. However, I can tell you that I was born at a very young age and have stayed true to my resolution, first made public by J. M. Barrie, to never grow up. He did screw it up a bit, by adding "never go to school", which I actually did, it was just that I did not attend a lot of classes while I was there. Probably a misperception on his part. \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Lenny V. aka GoldLenny Sent: Saturday, June 20, 2009 7:31 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Ray Fan Club Oopp.. I said 600 when I meant to type 1200. Was a 1200 baud modem similar to a 14.4 or would it have been like a 1.2? I'm thinking 1.2 but wanted to be sure. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Steve Szabo Sent: Saturday, June 20, 2009 2:15 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Ray Fan Club There were no 600 baud modems. I never worked with 120 baud, the speed used for teletypes, if anyone knows what they are. \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Lenny V. aka GoldLenny Sent: Saturday, June 20, 2009 2:57 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Ray Fan Club Wow.. I do not remember ever dealing with 300 or 600 baud modems. I seem to remember my first was a 14.4kbs but I could be wrong. I will admit that while I've used computers for a LONG time, I never really got onto the internet, probably until some time in the 80's, so \\Steve// has a few years ahead of me on the "net". Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of bill 1433 Sent: Saturday, June 20, 2009 12:31 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Ray Fan Club Thanks Steve!   I appreciate the information.  A bit of history and learning never hurts anyone!   Bill --- On Sat, 6/20/09, Steve Szabo <steve@...> wrote: From: Steve Szabo <steve@...> Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Ray Fan Club To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Date: Saturday, June 20, 2009, 12:47 PM The use of acronyms in online communications began back in the 70's even before the Internet was public and there was such a thing as the Web. They arose with the spread of personal computers. There were several systems used to connect BB's (Bulletin Boards) together. The one I am familiar with is FIDOnet. For those who do not know, BB's were one of the first means people had to communicate with one another via the computer. The acronyms came into use in self defense. One reason was lousy typing skills but a big reason was for speed. Way back then most used 300 baud modems, and a lucky few may have had 1200 baud. Baud is a rough equivalent of bits per second, but the two are not equal. When time-sharing outfits, such as CompuServe, started courting the new consumer market, time became an even bigger factor, since one was charged by the minute for use, more during business hours, less on off hours. \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of bill 1433 Sent: Saturday, June 20, 2009 8:06 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Ray Fan Club Lenny, Donna does just fine but I realize others may have a problem keeping up with her.  To that end I offer:http://www.acronymfinder.com/ That should keep everyone on the same page!  But a general Internet Question here for anyone?  Where or when did the use of these Acronym's first start?  From the start up of the "Texting" with the cell phone's? ol' bill---------always playing catch-up but willing to learn --- On Fri, 6/19/09, Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@...> wrote: > From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@...> > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Ray Fan Club > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Date: Friday, June 19, 2009, 9:46 PM > Donna, > > You're going to cause Google to crash, with Ol' Bill having to look up > all them acronyms.  LOL > > And that is a fact, IMO... or would that be IMHO? > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles > referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically > under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) >  > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] > On > Behalf Of Donna Ransome > Sent: Friday, June 19, 2009 5:47 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Ray Fan Club > > I know Ray too, but leave me out of that fogey group > please, LOL.  You > couldn't know a nicer person Amber.  But you > definitely have to be sure of > your info before you pass it along.  If you can say > IME that's best.  If you > have the citation, that's second best.  If you just > read it somewhere, > always a good idea to add a caveat like FWIW and could be > truth or myth.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 41154	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 6/20/2009
Subject: Re: Pelco verse Bristlenose

I'm not sure if you accidentally misspelled Pleco when you referred to it as Pelco but that is a common internet myth about this group of fish. According to the myth, if you spell Pleco as Pleco and not misspell it as Pelco or Pl*co or Plec, your Pleco will die. PLECO, PLECO, PLECO, PLECO, PLECO, PLECO, PLECO. I just checked and my Clown Pleco is still fine. ;-) The term or common name, Pleco, should have probably been called "Suckermouth Catfish" instead of Pleco, but I guess Pleco is nice and short. The general term Pleco probably became the most commonly used term as it is short for Hypostomus Plecostomus which is the one of the several species that are commonly referred to as "Common Pleco" in pet stores. Other species included and commonly sold as "Common Plecos" are Pterygoplichthys pardalis, Acipenser plecostomus, Hypostomus punctatus, Liposarcus multiradiatus, Liposarcus pardalis, Plecostomus plecostomus (from: http://www.aquariumlife.net/profiles/common-plecostomus/100173.asp). Some of these scientific names may have changed which is a common happening in the catfish world in recent history. Unfortunately for the "Common Pleco" fish and the fish keeper, "Common Plecos" grow to 18" to 24" long and are not really suitable for the majority of aquariums. A single fish needs at least a 6' to 8' long tank and at least 75G of water volume for itself. Most are kept in undersized tanks and never reach their full potential or live a full life due to the stunting that ensues from being kept in undersized tanks. The Bristlenose Pleco, often referred to as BN Pleco, is actually from a different Genera than the Hypostomus Plecostomus. The species name for BN Plecos is Ancistrus dolichopterus (the last time I checked) BUT both of these Genera and several others all fall under the family of Loricariidae or "Suckermouth Catfish" http://fish.mongabay.com/loricariidae.htm which also includes a profile for your Bristlenose Pleco on the page. You are probably correct that you have a male Bristlnose Pleco as the females do not have the "bristles on their snouts or the bristles are much less pronounced. How long have you had yours. They normally grow to around 6" and according to my article on "How Long Should Your Fish Live", they should live around 20 years. http://goldlenny.blogspot.com/2007/02/how-long-should-aquarium-fish-live.htm l You will have to give me a link to what you saw pictures of, described as Pelco, but I'm sure it was someone falling for the myth and misspelling the name of their Bristlenose Pleco as Pelco. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Jasmine Sent: Saturday, June 20, 2009 9:28 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Pelco verse Bristlenose Can anyone tell me what the difference is between these two? Is it just terminology or is there a difference? I have what I've always called a male bristlenose - its about 5" and has bristles on its head. I have seen a few photos of Pelco's and they look so much like my bristlenose. Thanks Jasmine

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 41155	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 6/20/2009
Subject: Re: OT: Blindness Cure May Lie in Aquarium

This appears to be a regular Yahoo! problem. It appears to hit certain users on certain lists at various times. I have been having a problem like you describe with another list on Yahoo!, but it has been going on for days, and does not affect every post. Best advice is to grin and bear it. Yahoo! has been made aware of this problem time and time again, and seem to ignore it unless it is widespread. \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Donna Ransome Sent: Saturday, June 20, 2009 9:57 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] OT: Blindness Cure May Lie in Aquarium From 7:41pm today until this post I got every post twice. Now it seems to be back to single posts. What happened? _____ From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of biG poppa Sent: Saturday, June 20, 2009 8:48 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] OT: Blindness Cure May Lie in Aquarium oh boy having fun There GoldSingerLenny? --- On Sat, 6/20/09, Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@gmail. <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com> com> wrote: From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@gmail. <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com> com> Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] OT: Blindness Cure May Lie in Aquarium To: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com Date: Saturday, June 20, 2009, 8:41 PM You gotta remember though.. that the Glo-fish Zebra Danios also came as a result of experiments on Zebra Danios (aka Zebra fish) for detection of water pollution purposes. I guess we'll have "Three Blind Fish" or "Ray Charles" fish some time in the future after these experiments are done. Their commercials will sound something like this... Three blind fish, Three blind fish, See how they swim, See how they swim! They all swam after The fisherman's wife She cut off their tails With a carving knife Did you ever see Such a sight in your life As three blind fish? Or maybe this... Blind fishie, Blind fishie, the whole tank's for you Just an old UGF filter Keeps Blind fishie on my mind Talkin' 'bout Blind fishie I said Blind fishie A song for you Comes as clean and clear as lunar lighting at night Other fish swim right by you Other fish with eyes eat your food Still in peaceful dreams you don't see The water flow leads back to you I gotta admit... I think I have too much time on my hands today... and that the re-write of Three Blind Fish was a lot easier than Blind Fishie. LOL Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com [mailto:AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com] On Behalf Of Amber Berglund Sent: Saturday, June 20, 2009 7:05 PM To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] OT: Blindness Cure May Lie in Aquarium I agree, I enjoy their business in my fish tanks, I don't have the zebra ones, but I like glofish and the "purple passion danio's" Amber Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > > > Poor Zebra Danios. They get so much of the experimentation done on > them. I know it's needed but you still gotta feel sorry for the little > guys and gals. > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com > <http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com> (Links to any articles referenced in > above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels > and also under Archives by Year, Month) > > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com > <mailto:AquaticLife %40yahoogroups. com> > [mailto:AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com > <mailto:AquaticLife %40yahoogroups. com>] On Behalf Of Steve Szabo > Sent: Saturday, June 20, 2009 2:00 PM > To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com <mailto:AquaticLife %40yahoogroups. com> > Subject: [AquaticLife] OT: Blindness Cure May Lie in Aquarium > > This is kind of off topic for this list, but I thought a number of you > may have some interest. The following link gives a brief description > of some ongoing research with zebrafish and their ability to grow new eye cells. > > http://www.canada. com/technology/ science/Blindnes s+cure+aquarium/ 15103 > 43 > <http://www.canada. com/technology/ science/Blindnes s+cure+aquarium/ 1510 > 343> > /story.html > TinyURL: http://tinyurl. com/n3enp2 <http://tinyurl. com/n3enp2> > > \\Steve//

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 41156	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 6/20/2009
Subject: Re: Nuphar Stellata

Ray, Thanks. I've never worked with tropical water lilies, so I was not aware they had bulbs. The Nuphar I am familiar with grow wild in New England (and probably other parts of the country). \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Raymond Wetzel Sent: Saturday, June 20, 2009 8:24 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Nuphar Stellata \\Steve//, Water Lilies (Nuphar, more often referred to as Nymphaea), have either bulbs or tubers -- depending on their General type. Tropical water lilies have bulbs, while hardy water lilies have tubers. Both are in the Genus Nymphaea. Nymphaea (Nuphar) stellata is a tropical water lily. Ray --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Steve Szabo" <steve@...> wrote: > > Amber, > > If the dwarf lily is from a bulb, it is from a different genus than the water lily we normally think of. If it grows from a tuber, it is a "real" water lily. > > Nuphar is a genus related to that of the commonly purchased water lilies. Beyond the difference in the leaf shape and structure, and flowers, I do not know what else is different about them. > > \\Steve// > > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Amber Berglund > Sent: Saturday, June 20, 2009 6:01 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Subject: [AquaticLife] Nuphar Stellata > > Is the dwarf lily you buy from the LFS not the same as other Lilies? I > can't seem to find much info on them at all online except from sellers. > Do these types of Dwarf Lily's still bloom or no? > > Amber > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 41157	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 6/20/2009
Subject: Re: Ray Fan Club

And now we're not happy with hi-speed/broadband speeds. LOL I just did a little homework. A modern dial-up modem is rated at top download speed of 56kbit/s (56,000 bits/second) which is nearly 50 times faster than a 1200 baud modem of years gone by. Hi-speed is considered anything over 256kbit/s (256,000 bits/second) download speed or about five times faster than dial up. The FCC's definition for "Broadband" is download speed over 768kbit/s (768,000 bits/second) which is about 15 times faster than dial-up and 750 times faster than one of those "historic" 1200 baud modems. DSL lines have speeds up to around 1.5Mbps (1,500,000+ bits/second) with Cable modems reaching 2-3Mbps speeds (2,000,000+ to 3,000,000+ bits/second) and even double those speeds if folks pay for it. These DSL and Cable Modem speeds are 250 to nearly 600 times faster than dial up modems and over 15,000 times faster than one of them old 1200 baud modems. Of course, you can get broadband at much higher speeds. And now the BIG question.... why don't we have flying cars yet? The Jetsons, an authority on the future, clearly showed computer automated homes, robots and flying cars. We have computers and automated homes, we have robots... but we're not even close to a flying car yet. If anything, we're regressing in automotive speed, not progressing as with most other technologies. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Steve Szabo Sent: Saturday, June 20, 2009 10:15 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Ray Fan Club Lenny, That would be a 1.2 modem. From that they went to 2400, then 9600 (boy, that was blazing fast!), to 14.4, then to 28.8 (and you thought 9600 was fast!), then 33.6 (I think, may have been 33.2, I didn't do the math) and finally 56.6, which actually exceeds the capacity of the frequency used over a phone line, which is why you never saw the speed go over about 54K. There were some compression schemes built in to make the transfers go faster, but one needed the same type or brand and type of modem on both ends to achieve that. Then there was compression of files also, which led to the great compression war, which was won by PKZIP at the time, and a better compression algorithm fell to the backwaters of the Internet. Am I older than dirt (referring to a later reply)? No, there are lots of people around here older than I, Bill for example, as well as Ray. However, I can tell you that I was born at a very young age and have stayed true to my resolution, first made public by J. M. Barrie, to never grow up. He did screw it up a bit, by adding "never go to school", which I actually did, it was just that I did not attend a lot of classes while I was there. Probably a misperception on his part. \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Lenny V. aka GoldLenny Sent: Saturday, June 20, 2009 7:31 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Ray Fan Club Oopp.. I said 600 when I meant to type 1200. Was a 1200 baud modem similar to a 14.4 or would it have been like a 1.2? I'm thinking 1.2 but wanted to be sure. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Steve Szabo Sent: Saturday, June 20, 2009 2:15 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Ray Fan Club There were no 600 baud modems. I never worked with 120 baud, the speed used for teletypes, if anyone knows what they are. \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Lenny V. aka GoldLenny Sent: Saturday, June 20, 2009 2:57 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Ray Fan Club Wow.. I do not remember ever dealing with 300 or 600 baud modems. I seem to remember my first was a 14.4kbs but I could be wrong. I will admit that while I've used computers for a LONG time, I never really got onto the internet, probably until some time in the 80's, so \\Steve// has a few years ahead of me on the "net". Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of bill 1433 Sent: Saturday, June 20, 2009 12:31 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Ray Fan Club Thanks Steve!   I appreciate the information.  A bit of history and learning never hurts anyone!   Bill --- On Sat, 6/20/09, Steve Szabo <steve@...> wrote: From: Steve Szabo <steve@...> Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Ray Fan Club To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Date: Saturday, June 20, 2009, 12:47 PM The use of acronyms in online communications began back in the 70's even before the Internet was public and there was such a thing as the Web. They arose with the spread of personal computers. There were several systems used to connect BB's (Bulletin Boards) together. The one I am familiar with is FIDOnet. For those who do not know, BB's were one of the first means people had to communicate with one another via the computer. The acronyms came into use in self defense. One reason was lousy typing skills but a big reason was for speed. Way back then most used 300 baud modems, and a lucky few may have had 1200 baud. Baud is a rough equivalent of bits per second, but the two are not equal. When time-sharing outfits, such as CompuServe, started courting the new consumer market, time became an even bigger factor, since one was charged by the minute for use, more during business hours, less on off hours. \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of bill 1433 Sent: Saturday, June 20, 2009 8:06 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Ray Fan Club Lenny, Donna does just fine but I realize others may have a problem keeping up with her.  To that end I offer:http://www.acronymfinder.com/ That should keep everyone on the same page!  But a general Internet Question here for anyone?  Where or when did the use of these Acronym's first start?  From the start up of the "Texting" with the cell phone's? ol' bill---------always playing catch-up but willing to learn --- On Fri, 6/19/09, Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@...> wrote: > From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@...> > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Ray Fan Club > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Date: Friday, June 19, 2009, 9:46 PM > Donna, > > You're going to cause Google to crash, with Ol' Bill having to look up > all them acronyms.  LOL > > And that is a fact, IMO... or would that be IMHO? > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles > referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically > under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) >  > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] > On > Behalf Of Donna Ransome > Sent: Friday, June 19, 2009 5:47 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Ray Fan Club > > I know Ray too, but leave me out of that fogey group > please, LOL.  You > couldn't know a nicer person Amber.  But you > definitely have to be sure of > your info before you pass it along.  If you can say > IME that's best.  If you > have the citation, that's second best.  If you just > read it somewhere, > always a good idea to add a caveat like FWIW and could be > truth or myth.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 41158	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 6/20/2009
Subject: Re: Ray Fan Club

Oh I'm sure there are people designing them, it's just a matter of getting someone to finance the building and mass production of them ;). I'm sure there's a reason behind there not being any, probably has something to do with fuel in some way. Someday we'll have them, and I better get one, I better tell the hubby now so we can start saving ;) LOL. Amber Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > > > And now we're not happy with hi-speed/broadband speeds. LOL > > I just did a little homework. > > A modern dial-up modem is rated at top download speed of 56kbit/s (56,000 > bits/second) which is nearly 50 times faster than a 1200 baud modem of > years > gone by. > > Hi-speed is considered anything over 256kbit/s (256,000 bits/second) > download speed or about five times faster than dial up. > > The FCC's definition for "Broadband" is download speed over 768kbit/s > (768,000 bits/second) which is about 15 times faster than dial-up and 750 > times faster than one of those "historic" 1200 baud modems. > > DSL lines have speeds up to around 1.5Mbps (1,500,000+ bits/second) with > Cable modems reaching 2-3Mbps speeds (2,000,000+ to 3,000,000+ > bits/second) > and even double those speeds if folks pay for it. These DSL and Cable > Modem > speeds are 250 to nearly 600 times faster than dial up modems and over > 15,000 times faster than one of them old 1200 baud modems. Of course, you > can get broadband at much higher speeds. > > And now the BIG question.... why don't we have flying cars yet? The > Jetsons, an authority on the future, clearly showed computer automated > homes, robots and flying cars. We have computers and automated homes, we > have robots... but we're not even close to a flying car yet. If anything, > we're regressing in automotive speed, not progressing as with most other > technologies. > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right > side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On > Behalf Of Steve Szabo > Sent: Saturday, June 20, 2009 10:15 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Ray Fan Club > > Lenny, > > That would be a 1.2 modem. From that they went to 2400, then 9600 > (boy, that > was blazing fast!), to 14.4, then to 28.8 (and you thought 9600 was > fast!), > then 33.6 (I think, may have been 33.2, I didn't do the math) and finally > 56.6, which actually exceeds the capacity of the frequency used over a > phone > line, which is why you never saw the speed go over about 54K. There were > some compression schemes built in to make the transfers go faster, but one > needed the same type or brand and type of modem on both ends to achieve > that. Then there was compression of files also, which led to the great > compression war, which was won by PKZIP at the time, and a better > compression algorithm fell to the backwaters of the Internet. > > Am I older than dirt (referring to a later reply)? No, there are lots of > people around here older than I, Bill for example, as well as Ray. > However, > I can tell you that I was born at a very young age and have stayed true to > my resolution, first made public by J. M. Barrie, to never grow up. He did > screw it up a bit, by adding "never go to school", which I actually > did, it > was just that I did not attend a lot of classes while I was there. > Probably > a misperception on his part. > > \\Steve// > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On > Behalf Of Lenny V. aka GoldLenny > Sent: Saturday, June 20, 2009 7:31 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Ray Fan Club > > Oopp.. I said 600 when I meant to type 1200. Was a 1200 baud modem similar > to a 14.4 or would it have been like a 1.2? I'm thinking 1.2 but wanted to > be sure. > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> (Links to any articles referenced > in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under > Labels and > also under Archives by Year, Month) > > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On > Behalf Of Steve Szabo > Sent: Saturday, June 20, 2009 2:15 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Ray Fan Club > > There were no 600 baud modems. I never worked with 120 baud, the speed > used > for teletypes, if anyone knows what they are. > > \\Steve// > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On > Behalf Of Lenny V. aka GoldLenny > Sent: Saturday, June 20, 2009 2:57 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Ray Fan Club > > Wow.. I do not remember ever dealing with 300 or 600 baud modems. I > seem to > remember my first was a 14.4kbs but I could be wrong. I will admit that > while I've used computers for a LONG time, I never really got onto the > internet, probably until some time in the 80's, so \\Steve// has a few > years > ahead of me on the "net". > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> (Links to any articles referenced > in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under > Labels and > also under Archives by Year, Month) > > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On > Behalf Of bill 1433 > Sent: Saturday, June 20, 2009 12:31 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Ray Fan Club > > Thanks Steve! > > I appreciate the information. A bit of history and learning never hurts > anyone! > > Bill > > --- On Sat, 6/20/09, Steve Szabo <steve@... > <mailto:steve%40familyszabo.com>> wrote: > > From: Steve Szabo <steve@... <mailto:steve%40familyszabo.com>> > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Ray Fan Club > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Date: Saturday, June 20, 2009, 12:47 PM > > The use of acronyms in online communications began back in the 70's even > before the Internet was public and there was such a thing as the Web. They > arose with the spread of personal computers. There were several > systems used > to connect BB's (Bulletin Boards) together. The one I am familiar with is > FIDOnet. For those who do not know, BB's were one of the first means > people > had to communicate with one another via the computer. The acronyms > came into > use in self defense. One reason was lousy typing skills but a big > reason was > for speed. Way back then most used 300 baud modems, and a lucky few > may have > had 1200 baud. Baud is a rough equivalent of bits per second, but the two > are not equal. > > When time-sharing outfits, such as CompuServe, started courting the new > consumer market, time became an even bigger factor, since one was > charged by > the minute for use, more during business hours, less on off hours. > > \\Steve// > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On > Behalf Of bill 1433 > Sent: Saturday, June 20, 2009 8:06 AM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Ray Fan Club > > Lenny, Donna does just fine but I realize others may have a problem > keeping > up with her. To that end I offer:http://www.acronymfinder.com/ > <http://www.acronymfinder.com/> > > That should keep everyone on the same page! But a general Internet > Question > here for anyone? Where or when did the use of these Acronym's first > start? > >From the start up of the "Texting" with the cell phone's? > > ol' bill---------always playing catch-up but willing to learn > > --- On Fri, 6/19/09, Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@... > <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com>> wrote: > > > From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@... > <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com>> > > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Ray Fan Club > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > Date: Friday, June 19, 2009, 9:46 PM > > Donna, > > > > You're going to cause Google to crash, with Ol' Bill having to look up > > all them acronyms. LOL > > > > And that is a fact, IMO... or would that be IMHO? > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> (Links to any articles > > referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically > > under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] > > On > > Behalf Of Donna Ransome > > Sent: Friday, June 19, 2009 5:47 PM > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Ray Fan Club > > > > I know Ray too, but leave me out of that fogey group > > please, LOL. You > > couldn't know a nicer person Amber. But you > > definitely have to be sure of > > your info before you pass it along. If you can say > > IME that's best. If you > > have the citation, that's second best. If you just > > read it somewhere, > > always a good idea to add a caveat like FWIW and could be > > truth or myth. > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 41159	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 6/20/2009
Subject: Re: Ray Fan Club

Lenny, Of course we have flying cars. Here is one, there are many others out there. http://auto.howstuffworks.com/flying-car2.htm BTW, you can get up to 3 meg out of DSL. You just need to be close enough to the central office offering such speeds. \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Lenny V. aka GoldLenny Sent: Saturday, June 20, 2009 11:51 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Ray Fan Club And now we're not happy with hi-speed/broadband speeds. LOL I just did a little homework. A modern dial-up modem is rated at top download speed of 56kbit/s (56,000 bits/second) which is nearly 50 times faster than a 1200 baud modem of years gone by. Hi-speed is considered anything over 256kbit/s (256,000 bits/second) download speed or about five times faster than dial up. The FCC's definition for "Broadband" is download speed over 768kbit/s (768,000 bits/second) which is about 15 times faster than dial-up and 750 times faster than one of those "historic" 1200 baud modems. DSL lines have speeds up to around 1.5Mbps (1,500,000+ bits/second) with Cable modems reaching 2-3Mbps speeds (2,000,000+ to 3,000,000+ bits/second) and even double those speeds if folks pay for it. These DSL and Cable Modem speeds are 250 to nearly 600 times faster than dial up modems and over 15,000 times faster than one of them old 1200 baud modems. Of course, you can get broadband at much higher speeds. And now the BIG question.... why don't we have flying cars yet? The Jetsons, an authority on the future, clearly showed computer automated homes, robots and flying cars. We have computers and automated homes, we have robots... but we're not even close to a flying car yet. If anything, we're regressing in automotive speed, not progressing as with most other technologies. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Steve Szabo Sent: Saturday, June 20, 2009 10:15 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Ray Fan Club Lenny, That would be a 1.2 modem. From that they went to 2400, then 9600 (boy, that was blazing fast!), to 14.4, then to 28.8 (and you thought 9600 was fast!), then 33.6 (I think, may have been 33.2, I didn't do the math) and finally 56.6, which actually exceeds the capacity of the frequency used over a phone line, which is why you never saw the speed go over about 54K. There were some compression schemes built in to make the transfers go faster, but one needed the same type or brand and type of modem on both ends to achieve that. Then there was compression of files also, which led to the great compression war, which was won by PKZIP at the time, and a better compression algorithm fell to the backwaters of the Internet. Am I older than dirt (referring to a later reply)? No, there are lots of people around here older than I, Bill for example, as well as Ray. However, I can tell you that I was born at a very young age and have stayed true to my resolution, first made public by J. M. Barrie, to never grow up. He did screw it up a bit, by adding "never go to school", which I actually did, it was just that I did not attend a lot of classes while I was there. Probably a misperception on his part. \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Lenny V. aka GoldLenny Sent: Saturday, June 20, 2009 7:31 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Ray Fan Club Oopp.. I said 600 when I meant to type 1200. Was a 1200 baud modem similar to a 14.4 or would it have been like a 1.2? I'm thinking 1.2 but wanted to be sure. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Steve Szabo Sent: Saturday, June 20, 2009 2:15 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Ray Fan Club There were no 600 baud modems. I never worked with 120 baud, the speed used for teletypes, if anyone knows what they are. \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Lenny V. aka GoldLenny Sent: Saturday, June 20, 2009 2:57 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Ray Fan Club Wow.. I do not remember ever dealing with 300 or 600 baud modems. I seem to remember my first was a 14.4kbs but I could be wrong. I will admit that while I've used computers for a LONG time, I never really got onto the internet, probably until some time in the 80's, so \\Steve// has a few years ahead of me on the "net". Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of bill 1433 Sent: Saturday, June 20, 2009 12:31 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Ray Fan Club Thanks Steve!   I appreciate the information.  A bit of history and learning never hurts anyone!   Bill --- On Sat, 6/20/09, Steve Szabo <steve@...> wrote: From: Steve Szabo <steve@...> Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Ray Fan Club To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Date: Saturday, June 20, 2009, 12:47 PM The use of acronyms in online communications began back in the 70's even before the Internet was public and there was such a thing as the Web. They arose with the spread of personal computers. There were several systems used to connect BB's (Bulletin Boards) together. The one I am familiar with is FIDOnet. For those who do not know, BB's were one of the first means people had to communicate with one another via the computer. The acronyms came into use in self defense. One reason was lousy typing skills but a big reason was for speed. Way back then most used 300 baud modems, and a lucky few may have had 1200 baud. Baud is a rough equivalent of bits per second, but the two are not equal. When time-sharing outfits, such as CompuServe, started courting the new consumer market, time became an even bigger factor, since one was charged by the minute for use, more during business hours, less on off hours. \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of bill 1433 Sent: Saturday, June 20, 2009 8:06 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Ray Fan Club Lenny, Donna does just fine but I realize others may have a problem keeping up with her.  To that end I offer:http://www.acronymfinder.com/ That should keep everyone on the same page!  But a general Internet Question here for anyone?  Where or when did the use of these Acronym's first start?  From the start up of the "Texting" with the cell phone's? ol' bill---------always playing catch-up but willing to learn --- On Fri, 6/19/09, Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@...> wrote: > From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@...> > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Ray Fan Club > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Date: Friday, June 19, 2009, 9:46 PM > Donna, > > You're going to cause Google to crash, with Ol' Bill having to look up > all them acronyms.  LOL > > And that is a fact, IMO... or would that be IMHO? > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles > referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically > under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) >  > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] > On > Behalf Of Donna Ransome > Sent: Friday, June 19, 2009 5:47 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Ray Fan Club > > I know Ray too, but leave me out of that fogey group > please, LOL.  You > couldn't know a nicer person Amber.  But you > definitely have to be sure of > your info before you pass it along.  If you can say > IME that's best.  If you > have the citation, that's second best.  If you just > read it somewhere, > always a good idea to add a caveat like FWIW and could be > truth or myth.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 41160	From: Jasmine	Date: 6/20/2009
Subject: Re: Pelco verse Bristlenose

Hi Lenny It was all me, I spelt it wrong. I simply spelt it phonetically the way I pronounce it. From viewing the hyperlinks you provided and reading what you wrote – it appears I may have a Bushy Nose Pleco. I got my camera and went to take a photo but, it was in hiding. It's been hiding a lot over the last couple of weeks and has only just started venturing out. I can't be sure how long we have had him for, I did find a photo of him which was taken back in January this year (its a poor shot but I can make out it was him). When I got him he already had bristles. I don't think we have had him more than a year. I'll try and get a shot and post it for you. In the mean time, I did manage to get a good shot of one of our newest BN – I just need to recharge the battery on the camera before I can do anything  Jasmine --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@...> wrote: > > I'm not sure if you accidentally misspelled Pleco when you referred to it as > Pelco but that is a common internet myth about this group of fish. > According to the myth, if you spell Pleco as Pleco and not misspell it as > Pelco or Pl*co or Plec, your Pleco will die. PLECO, PLECO, PLECO, PLECO, > PLECO, PLECO, PLECO. I just checked and my Clown Pleco is still fine. ;-) > > The term or common name, Pleco, should have probably been called > "Suckermouth Catfish" instead of Pleco, but I guess Pleco is nice and short. > The general term Pleco probably became the most commonly used term as it is > short for Hypostomus Plecostomus which is the one of the several species > that are commonly referred to as "Common Pleco" in pet stores. Other > species included and commonly sold as "Common Plecos" are Pterygoplichthys > pardalis, Acipenser plecostomus, Hypostomus punctatus, Liposarcus > multiradiatus, Liposarcus pardalis, Plecostomus plecostomus (from: > http://www.aquariumlife.net/profiles/common-plecostomus/100173.asp). Some > of these scientific names may have changed which is a common happening in > the catfish world in recent history. > > Unfortunately for the "Common Pleco" fish and the fish keeper, "Common > Plecos" grow to 18" to 24" long and are not really suitable for the majority > of aquariums. A single fish needs at least a 6' to 8' long tank and at > least 75G of water volume for itself. Most are kept in undersized tanks and > never reach their full potential or live a full life due to the stunting > that ensues from being kept in undersized tanks. > > The Bristlenose Pleco, often referred to as BN Pleco, is actually from a > different Genera than the Hypostomus Plecostomus. The species name for BN > Plecos is Ancistrus dolichopterus (the last time I checked) BUT both of > these Genera and several others all fall under the family of Loricariidae or > "Suckermouth Catfish" http://fish.mongabay.com/loricariidae.htm which also > includes a profile for your Bristlenose Pleco on the page. > > You are probably correct that you have a male Bristlnose Pleco as the > females do not have the "bristles on their snouts or the bristles are much > less pronounced. How long have you had yours. They normally grow to around > 6" and according to my article on "How Long Should Your Fish Live", they > should live around 20 years. > http://goldlenny.blogspot.com/2007/02/how-long-should-aquarium-fish-live.htm > l > > You will have to give me a link to what you saw pictures of, described as > Pelco, but I'm sure it was someone falling for the myth and misspelling the > name of their Bristlenose Pleco as Pelco. > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right > side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) > > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On > Behalf Of Jasmine > Sent: Saturday, June 20, 2009 9:28 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Subject: [AquaticLife] Pelco verse Bristlenose > > Can anyone tell me what the difference is between these two? > > Is it just terminology or is there a difference? > > I have what I've always called a male bristlenose - its about 5" and has > bristles on its head. I have seen a few photos of Pelco's and they look so > much like my bristlenose. > Thanks > Jasmine >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 41161	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 6/20/2009
Subject: Re: Ray Fan Club

But no mention of it folding up into a briefcase. ;-) Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Steve Szabo Sent: Saturday, June 20, 2009 11:42 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Ray Fan Club Lenny, Of course we have flying cars. Here is one, there are many others out there. http://auto.howstuffworks.com/flying-car2.htm BTW, you can get up to 3 meg out of DSL. You just need to be close enough to the central office offering such speeds. \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Lenny V. aka GoldLenny Sent: Saturday, June 20, 2009 11:51 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Ray Fan Club And now we're not happy with hi-speed/broadband speeds. LOL I just did a little homework. A modern dial-up modem is rated at top download speed of 56kbit/s (56,000 bits/second) which is nearly 50 times faster than a 1200 baud modem of years gone by. Hi-speed is considered anything over 256kbit/s (256,000 bits/second) download speed or about five times faster than dial up. The FCC's definition for "Broadband" is download speed over 768kbit/s (768,000 bits/second) which is about 15 times faster than dial-up and 750 times faster than one of those "historic" 1200 baud modems. DSL lines have speeds up to around 1.5Mbps (1,500,000+ bits/second) with Cable modems reaching 2-3Mbps speeds (2,000,000+ to 3,000,000+ bits/second) and even double those speeds if folks pay for it. These DSL and Cable Modem speeds are 250 to nearly 600 times faster than dial up modems and over 15,000 times faster than one of them old 1200 baud modems. Of course, you can get broadband at much higher speeds. And now the BIG question.... why don't we have flying cars yet? The Jetsons, an authority on the future, clearly showed computer automated homes, robots and flying cars. We have computers and automated homes, we have robots... but we're not even close to a flying car yet. If anything, we're regressing in automotive speed, not progressing as with most other technologies. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Steve Szabo Sent: Saturday, June 20, 2009 10:15 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Ray Fan Club Lenny, That would be a 1.2 modem. From that they went to 2400, then 9600 (boy, that was blazing fast!), to 14.4, then to 28.8 (and you thought 9600 was fast!), then 33.6 (I think, may have been 33.2, I didn't do the math) and finally 56.6, which actually exceeds the capacity of the frequency used over a phone line, which is why you never saw the speed go over about 54K. There were some compression schemes built in to make the transfers go faster, but one needed the same type or brand and type of modem on both ends to achieve that. Then there was compression of files also, which led to the great compression war, which was won by PKZIP at the time, and a better compression algorithm fell to the backwaters of the Internet. Am I older than dirt (referring to a later reply)? No, there are lots of people around here older than I, Bill for example, as well as Ray. However, I can tell you that I was born at a very young age and have stayed true to my resolution, first made public by J. M. Barrie, to never grow up. He did screw it up a bit, by adding "never go to school", which I actually did, it was just that I did not attend a lot of classes while I was there. Probably a misperception on his part. \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Lenny V. aka GoldLenny Sent: Saturday, June 20, 2009 7:31 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Ray Fan Club Oopp.. I said 600 when I meant to type 1200. Was a 1200 baud modem similar to a 14.4 or would it have been like a 1.2? I'm thinking 1.2 but wanted to be sure. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Steve Szabo Sent: Saturday, June 20, 2009 2:15 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Ray Fan Club There were no 600 baud modems. I never worked with 120 baud, the speed used for teletypes, if anyone knows what they are. \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Lenny V. aka GoldLenny Sent: Saturday, June 20, 2009 2:57 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Ray Fan Club Wow.. I do not remember ever dealing with 300 or 600 baud modems. I seem to remember my first was a 14.4kbs but I could be wrong. I will admit that while I've used computers for a LONG time, I never really got onto the internet, probably until some time in the 80's, so \\Steve// has a few years ahead of me on the "net". Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of bill 1433 Sent: Saturday, June 20, 2009 12:31 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Ray Fan Club Thanks Steve!   I appreciate the information.  A bit of history and learning never hurts anyone!   Bill --- On Sat, 6/20/09, Steve Szabo <steve@...> wrote: From: Steve Szabo <steve@...> Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Ray Fan Club To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Date: Saturday, June 20, 2009, 12:47 PM The use of acronyms in online communications began back in the 70's even before the Internet was public and there was such a thing as the Web. They arose with the spread of personal computers. There were several systems used to connect BB's (Bulletin Boards) together. The one I am familiar with is FIDOnet. For those who do not know, BB's were one of the first means people had to communicate with one another via the computer. The acronyms came into use in self defense. One reason was lousy typing skills but a big reason was for speed. Way back then most used 300 baud modems, and a lucky few may have had 1200 baud. Baud is a rough equivalent of bits per second, but the two are not equal. When time-sharing outfits, such as CompuServe, started courting the new consumer market, time became an even bigger factor, since one was charged by the minute for use, more during business hours, less on off hours. \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of bill 1433 Sent: Saturday, June 20, 2009 8:06 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Ray Fan Club Lenny, Donna does just fine but I realize others may have a problem keeping up with her.  To that end I offer:http://www.acronymfinder.com/ That should keep everyone on the same page!  But a general Internet Question here for anyone?  Where or when did the use of these Acronym's first start?  From the start up of the "Texting" with the cell phone's? ol' bill---------always playing catch-up but willing to learn --- On Fri, 6/19/09, Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@...> wrote: > From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@...> > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Ray Fan Club > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Date: Friday, June 19, 2009, 9:46 PM > Donna, > > You're going to cause Google to crash, with Ol' Bill having to look up > all them acronyms.  LOL > > And that is a fact, IMO... or would that be IMHO? > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles > referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically > under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) >  > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] > On > Behalf Of Donna Ransome > Sent: Friday, June 19, 2009 5:47 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Ray Fan Club > > I know Ray too, but leave me out of that fogey group > please, LOL.  You > couldn't know a nicer person Amber.  But you > definitely have to be sure of > your info before you pass it along.  If you can say > IME that's best.  If you > have the citation, that's second best.  If you just > read it somewhere, > always a good idea to add a caveat like FWIW and could be > truth or myth.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 41162	From: Jasmine	Date: 6/21/2009
Subject: Bristlenose catfish - Photos uploaded

Hi Just uploaded 3 photos. Two of the photos are of our recent addition to the tank. We purchased two of these Bristlenoses, this one is the largest of the two but neither have bristles that we can see. The last photo was taken back in January this year - this is the one I think is the Bushy Nose Pleco What do you think? Jasmine

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 41163	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 6/21/2009
Subject: Re: Pelco verse Bristlenose

I just looked at your picture and you definitely have a Bristlenose pleco (catfish) a/k/a bushynose pleco (catfish). Many sites will call it a Bristlenose catfish instead of pleco since pleco would suggest it's a H. plecostomus, which it's not. A search on PlanetCatfish.com, one of the most extensive websites on the net about all things catfish, has several species of Bristlenose catfish, as well as albino variants but yours is not an albino so look at the below profiles and click on the pictures and compare yours to find out which Ancistrus species you have. http://www.planetcatfish.com/catelog/species.php?species_id=49 Ancistrus cf. cirrhosus http://www.planetcatfish.com/catelog/species.php?species_id=152 Ancistrus claro http://www.planetcatfish.com/catelog/species.php?species_id=221 Ancistrus dolichopterus http://www.planetcatfish.com/catelog/species.php?species_id=48 Ancistrus tamboensis These other reputable websites have even more species or variants listed. http://www.aquariumlife.net/profiles/plecostamus/bristle-nose-pleco/100049.a sp Ancistrus temminckii This site is more about the generic Ancistrus sp. and has lots of comments from other BN Pleco keepers. You'll see there are 3 pages of comments if you want to read them all. Of course, check out comments before taking them as fact. http://www.aquahobby.com/gallery/e_bristle.php Let us know which one you have. If you can't figure it out, then you will need to get better pictures and post them here and see if one of us can. Take front and side pics with the fins extended, if possible. I hear that playing Madonna's Vogue song will cause people and fish to "strike a pose". ;-) Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Jasmine Sent: Saturday, June 20, 2009 11:51 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Pelco verse Bristlenose Hi Lenny It was all me, I spelt it wrong. I simply spelt it phonetically the way I pronounce it. From viewing the hyperlinks you provided and reading what you wrote – it appears I may have a Bushy Nose Pleco. I got my camera and went to take a photo but, it was in hiding. It's been hiding a lot over the last couple of weeks and has only just started venturing out. I can't be sure how long we have had him for, I did find a photo of him which was taken back in January this year (its a poor shot but I can make out it was him). When I got him he already had bristles. I don't think we have had him more than a year. I'll try and get a shot and post it for you. In the mean time, I did manage to get a good shot of one of our newest BN – I just need to recharge the battery on the camera before I can do anything  Jasmine --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@...> wrote: > > I'm not sure if you accidentally misspelled Pleco when you referred to > it as Pelco but that is a common internet myth about this group of fish. > According to the myth, if you spell Pleco as Pleco and not misspell it > as Pelco or Pl*co or Plec, your Pleco will die. PLECO, PLECO, PLECO, > PLECO, PLECO, PLECO, PLECO. I just checked and my Clown Pleco is > still fine. ;-) > > The term or common name, Pleco, should have probably been called > "Suckermouth Catfish" instead of Pleco, but I guess Pleco is nice and short. > The general term Pleco probably became the most commonly used term as > it is short for Hypostomus Plecostomus which is the one of the several > species that are commonly referred to as "Common Pleco" in pet stores. > Other species included and commonly sold as "Common Plecos" are > Pterygoplichthys pardalis, Acipenser plecostomus, Hypostomus > punctatus, Liposarcus multiradiatus, Liposarcus pardalis, Plecostomus plecostomus (from: > http://www.aquariumlife.net/profiles/common-plecostomus/100173.asp). > Some of these scientific names may have changed which is a common > happening in the catfish world in recent history. > > Unfortunately for the "Common Pleco" fish and the fish keeper, "Common > Plecos" grow to 18" to 24" long and are not really suitable for the > majority of aquariums. A single fish needs at least a 6' to 8' long > tank and at least 75G of water volume for itself. Most are kept in > undersized tanks and never reach their full potential or live a full > life due to the stunting that ensues from being kept in undersized tanks. > > The Bristlenose Pleco, often referred to as BN Pleco, is actually from > a different Genera than the Hypostomus Plecostomus. The species name > for BN Plecos is Ancistrus dolichopterus (the last time I checked) BUT > both of these Genera and several others all fall under the family of > Loricariidae or "Suckermouth Catfish" > http://fish.mongabay.com/loricariidae.htm which also includes a profile for your Bristlenose Pleco on the page. > > You are probably correct that you have a male Bristlnose Pleco as the > females do not have the "bristles on their snouts or the bristles are > much less pronounced. How long have you had yours. They normally > grow to around 6" and according to my article on "How Long Should Your > Fish Live", they should live around 20 years. > http://goldlenny.blogspot.com/2007/02/how-long-should-aquarium-fish-li > ve.htm > l > > You will have to give me a link to what you saw pictures of, described > as Pelco, but I'm sure it was someone falling for the myth and > misspelling the name of their Bristlenose Pleco as Pelco. > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles > referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically > under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) > > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] > On Behalf Of Jasmine > Sent: Saturday, June 20, 2009 9:28 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Subject: [AquaticLife] Pelco verse Bristlenose > > Can anyone tell me what the difference is between these two? > > Is it just terminology or is there a difference? > > I have what I've always called a male bristlenose - its about 5" and has > bristles on its head. I have seen a few photos of Pelco's and they look so > much like my bristlenose. > Thanks > Jasmine > ------------------------------------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the home page. Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com to receive the digest, which includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com for the No E-Mail option where you will still be able to read messages on the group and post replies. Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com to receive individual e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 41164	From: Jasmine	Date: 6/21/2009
Subject: Re: Pelco verse Bristlenose

Thank you Lenny I've had a look at all the sites and yes I'm pretty sure its a Bristlenose pleco. I had fun tonight taking photos of my fish after I fed them. I have updated a few more photos. Marjority of which were of the bristlenose pleco - some nice close up shots. Jasmine --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@...> wrote: > > I just looked at your picture and you definitely have a Bristlenose pleco > (catfish) a/k/a bushynose pleco (catfish). Many sites will call it a > Bristlenose catfish instead of pleco since pleco would suggest it's a H. > plecostomus, which it's not. > > A search on PlanetCatfish.com, one of the most extensive websites on the net > about all things catfish, has several species of Bristlenose catfish, as > well as albino variants but yours is not an albino so look at the below > profiles and click on the pictures and compare yours to find out which > Ancistrus species you have. > > http://www.planetcatfish.com/catelog/species.php?species_id=49 Ancistrus cf. > cirrhosus > > http://www.planetcatfish.com/catelog/species.php?species_id=152 Ancistrus > claro > > http://www.planetcatfish.com/catelog/species.php?species_id=221 Ancistrus > dolichopterus > > http://www.planetcatfish.com/catelog/species.php?species_id=48 Ancistrus > tamboensis > > These other reputable websites have even more species or variants listed. > > http://www.aquariumlife.net/profiles/plecostamus/bristle-nose-pleco/100049.a > sp Ancistrus temminckii > > This site is more about the generic Ancistrus sp. and has lots of comments > from other BN Pleco keepers. You'll see there are 3 pages of comments if > you want to read them all. Of course, check out comments before taking them > as fact. > > http://www.aquahobby.com/gallery/e_bristle.php > > Let us know which one you have. If you can't figure it out, then you will > need to get better pictures and post them here and see if one of us can. > Take front and side pics with the fins extended, if possible. I hear that > playing Madonna's Vogue song will cause people and fish to "strike a pose". > ;-) > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right > side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) > > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On > Behalf Of Jasmine > Sent: Saturday, June 20, 2009 11:51 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Pelco verse Bristlenose > > Hi Lenny > > It was all me, I spelt it wrong. I simply spelt it phonetically the way I > pronounce it. > > From viewing the hyperlinks you provided and reading what you wrote – it > appears I may have a Bushy Nose Pleco. I got my camera and went to take a > photo but, it was in hiding. It's been hiding a lot over the last couple of > weeks and has only just started venturing out. > > I can't be sure how long we have had him for, I did find a photo of him > which was taken back in January this year (its a poor shot but I can make > out it was him). When I got him he already had bristles. I don't think we > have had him more than a year. > > I'll try and get a shot and post it for you. In the mean time, I did manage > to get a good shot of one of our newest BN – I just need to recharge the > battery on the camera before I can do anything  > > Jasmine > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@> > wrote: > > > > I'm not sure if you accidentally misspelled Pleco when you referred to > > it as Pelco but that is a common internet myth about this group of fish. > > According to the myth, if you spell Pleco as Pleco and not misspell it > > as Pelco or Pl*co or Plec, your Pleco will die. PLECO, PLECO, PLECO, > > PLECO, PLECO, PLECO, PLECO. I just checked and my Clown Pleco is > > still fine. ;-) > > > > The term or common name, Pleco, should have probably been called > > "Suckermouth Catfish" instead of Pleco, but I guess Pleco is nice and > short. > > The general term Pleco probably became the most commonly used term as > > it is short for Hypostomus Plecostomus which is the one of the several > > species that are commonly referred to as "Common Pleco" in pet stores. > > Other species included and commonly sold as "Common Plecos" are > > Pterygoplichthys pardalis, Acipenser plecostomus, Hypostomus > > punctatus, Liposarcus multiradiatus, Liposarcus pardalis, Plecostomus > plecostomus (from: > > http://www.aquariumlife.net/profiles/common-plecostomus/100173.asp). > > Some of these scientific names may have changed which is a common > > happening in the catfish world in recent history. > > > > Unfortunately for the "Common Pleco" fish and the fish keeper, "Common > > Plecos" grow to 18" to 24" long and are not really suitable for the > > majority of aquariums. A single fish needs at least a 6' to 8' long > > tank and at least 75G of water volume for itself. Most are kept in > > undersized tanks and never reach their full potential or live a full > > life due to the stunting that ensues from being kept in undersized tanks. > > > > The Bristlenose Pleco, often referred to as BN Pleco, is actually from > > a different Genera than the Hypostomus Plecostomus. The species name > > for BN Plecos is Ancistrus dolichopterus (the last time I checked) BUT > > both of these Genera and several others all fall under the family of > > Loricariidae or "Suckermouth Catfish" > > http://fish.mongabay.com/loricariidae.htm which also includes a profile > for your Bristlenose Pleco on the page. > > > > You are probably correct that you have a male Bristlnose Pleco as the > > females do not have the "bristles on their snouts or the bristles are > > much less pronounced. How long have you had yours. They normally > > grow to around 6" and according to my article on "How Long Should Your > > Fish Live", they should live around 20 years. > > http://goldlenny.blogspot.com/2007/02/how-long-should-aquarium-fish-li > > ve.htm > > l > > > > You will have to give me a link to what you saw pictures of, described > > as Pelco, but I'm sure it was someone falling for the myth and > > misspelling the name of their Bristlenose Pleco as Pelco. > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles > > referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically > > under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) > > > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] > > On Behalf Of Jasmine > > Sent: Saturday, June 20, 2009 9:28 PM > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > Subject: [AquaticLife] Pelco verse Bristlenose > > > > Can anyone tell me what the difference is between these two? > > > > Is it just terminology or is there a difference? > > > > I have what I've always called a male bristlenose - its about 5" and has > > bristles on its head. I have seen a few photos of Pelco's and they look > so > > much like my bristlenose. > > Thanks > > Jasmine > > > > > > > ------------------------------------ > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. > ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> > PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to > the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT > LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- > <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. > > If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of unsubscribing, you > can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the > home page. > > Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com to receive the digest, which > includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email > > Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com for the No E-Mail option where > you will still be able to read messages on the group and post replies. > > Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com to receive individual > e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 41165	From: Raymond Wetzel	Date: 6/21/2009
Subject: Re: O/T Outlook Configuration, \\Steve//, was: Dr. Tims

Hi \\Steve//, I appreciate the time it took you to explain all this -- especially in a way that makes it absolutely clear to me (I think <g>). I never realized there could be that much difference in the way subject lines are received. Still, as the computer operator of the machine that uses Outlook, you would be aware of this difference in the Subject line and should know what to expect. And, knowing what to expect, once you see a member posting a new question -- with it's particular, new Subject heading/name -- and after realizing that it's coming through the "Aquatic Life" Group -- wouldn't any other same-worded Subject headings alert you to the fact that these additional messages are threads to the original poster's message -- regardless of the position or presence of "Re:" or the presence or absence of the tag "AquaticLife"? After all, you chose to use Outlook, so you should know what to look for and what to expect. Any change in the Subject line being sent by various members should not be a surprise to you -- and please know I'm not trying to be contrary here, but just trying to understand this further. Now getting back to Outlook's benefit of being able to use color, which is a good advantage -- are there any other benefits of this? I too would like the option of using color (can I presume you could use any option in your toolbar? -- size, font, bold, etc.?), but to me I don't think it would outweigh the advantage I have when I can compose a message right on the website page. If I write a reply to a post that I need to refer back to several times, I need to Minimize the page that I'm writing to see the original message underneath. Then, I need to minimize that message to be able to retrieve my own Minimized message to continue writing, and so on, back and forth if the content of the first message is lengthy (or varied) enough to make it difficult to remember it all (unless I print it out). When I compose my message on the website, I just need to scroll down to the original poster's message that's underneath mine to continually refer back to it, if I need to -- it's always there in plain view -- no minimizing-- maximizing (normalizing) games. Maybe there's something I'm missing here, I don't know. Ray --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Steve Szabo" <steve@...> wrote: > > Ray, > > I was not referring to Lenny in my post, but myself. However, I know > that Lenny also uses Outlook, and I am sure that many others do as well. > When I look at messages on line, there is no tag in the subject line. > This tag "[AquaticLife]" is seen by those who have the mail delivered to > their mail server and then read it with a mail reader such as Outlook. I > note now that this tag does not show online, even if the message is sent > as a reply from outside the web site. It appears that Yahoo! strips it > out. Now, for those of us not working within the online environment > within the web site of the list, the original message will appear with a > subject line looking like this: > [AquaticLife] Dr. Tims > The original message's subject shown in the web site appears like this: > Dr. Tims > Thus far, no problem, a thread has not developed. > > Now, if I was to reply to this message from my Outlook, the subject that > comes back is: > RE: [AquaticLife] Dr. Tims > While you would see it on the web site as: > Re: Dr. Tims > Outlook will sort just fine with the first format shown here, the " RE: > [AquaticLife] Dr. Tims" just fine because it will ignore the RE: at the > beginning. > > The problem occurs when someone relies on the web site. The subject > online will still look normal to you, but what shows up in the Inbox of > a reader is very different. Online, you see: > Re: Dr. Tims > And you can sort the thread by that with no problem. They call it > "group by topic" at Yahoo!. However, what I would see is: > RE: [AquaticLife] Re: Dr. Tims > And therein is the problem. For the sort, the first RE: is ignored, but > the second is not, therefore the message gets sorted on the "Re:" and > not the "Dr.". This puts that portion of the thread into another > grouping of messages, all that have that subject. And, it can even get > worse. Sometimes there are multiple "Re:"s in the subject line after > the tag. This then throws the message into another sort group. > > So, for us who work offline, there is a problem. We will not see all the > messages in a thread. We will read what is there, and reply to that. I > am aware of this, but do not always have the time to look through the > sort to see if there are any other pieces to the thread, thanks to > Yahoo!'s crazy way of handling the messages going out since they can be > widely separated from each other. > > What can be done about this? Forcing everyone to use a mail reader is > not feasible. Yahoo! will not allow it, they want people to read the ads > presented that help pay for the service. However, these tags are not > mandatory. It may be time for those who run this list to take a look at > the use of the tags and whether the use of the tag here should be > continued. Outlook gives me the option of using color to show messages > from a particular source, but not all readers do this. Perhaps a poll on > the tag would give some useful information to those who would make the > determination. There are lists here that do not have the tag in their > subject line. > > \\Steve// > > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] > On Behalf Of Raymond Wetzel > Sent: Saturday, June 20, 2009 6:46 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Dr. Tims > > \\Steve//, I'm trying to follow you on this, but right off the bat I > don't understand why you are bringing up "Outlook". Are you saying that > Lenny uses Outlook whereas most others don't? -- and that, that's where > the problem lies? I always reply by going to our group web site and > enter my messages from there after opening the poster's message (which > I'm doing right now with yours). Are you saying that some people never > see my messages on this Group? > > Since this is not the first occurance by far of redundant information > being posted numerous times over the years, after I've already posted > identical information, I've often wondered why anyone who would read my > info and continue to post the same information, seemingly as if ignoring > my posts -- or so it has appeared. I never understood the purpose for > doing so, but if they've never seen the initial post then they would > have no way of even knowing it existed, which would explain this > behavior. I'm still at a loss though, to figure out how Yahoogroups can > allow for messaging by some members, that cannot be seen by other > members, if that's what you're saying. > > I presume by "Tag" you mean Subject Line (???), I'm not quite sure, but > assume so. Here's where I don't understand why a message isn't being > read. Doesn't our Group site name appear in the subject line regardless > of where it's placed? -- I think I understand you to say it may be in > the beginning or at the end, but even so, with a short subject name, it > should still be viewable, or at least I would think so. Thanks for your > efforts in trying to explain this to me. Ray > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Steve Szabo" <steve@> wrote: > > > > Ray, > > > > The sort of messages in Outlook depends on whether the reply was > written > > online in the website, or if it was written elsewhere. The RE: is > placed > > differently--written outside the web site of the list it appears prior > > to the [Aquatic Life] tag, while written inside the list web site it > > appears after the tag.. I've read what I thought to be a thread, and > > replied, only to find out that the question has already been > adequately > > answered elsewhere in my sort, but separate from the thread I replied > > to. > > > > For those of you who do this strictly online, the tag is added when > the > > message is sent to a person's e-mail address (and what the heck are > you > > doing reading and replying to this stuff online without having the > > flexibility that answering a post offline gives you?) > > > > \\Steve// > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] > > On Behalf Of Raymond Wetzel > > Sent: Saturday, June 20, 2009 5:21 PM > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Dr. Tims > > > > Funny . . . I thought I remembered reading some of the nearly exact > same > > replies on this topic earlier this morning, somewhere around 9:30. If > I > > didn't know any better, I'd have to think that you might not read all > > your emails for this Group -- or maybe just selectively read them (<G> > > LOL ROTFL). Ray > > > > > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" > > <GoldLenny@> wrote: > > > > > > Add it to your running tank (with no fish), then wait a few hours or > > until > > > the next day and then dose the tank with plain ammonia (3 drops per > > gallon) > > > and test the tank for ammonia, nitrite, nitrate. Test again in a > few > > hours. > > > Post results. Within 12-24 hours, all of the ammonia should have > been > > > converted to nitrate. If it did, then the Dr. Tim's was not damaged > > and is > > > working. At that point, it's safe to add your fish. If you do not > > have > > > your fish yet, then keep dosing the tank daily with the plain > ammonia > > to > > > keep it "cycled" until you are ready to add the fish. > > > > > > When you took it out of the box, was it HOT or still reasonably cool > > (room > > > temperature)? If it didn't get too much over room temperature, then > > it > > > should not have been damaged. > > > > > > As far as the "dry ice was liquid", that's not possible since dry > ice > > is > > > frozen CO2 and as it "melts" it actually turns into CO2 which is a > > gas, so > > > it doesn't actually melt, it evaporates as it warms up from its > frozen > > > state. If it was one of those freezer packs like blue ice or > > something like > > > that, then that is not dry ice. If it was the blue ice type cooling > > > product, was it warm to the touch or was it still at least at room > > > temperature? > > > > > > Who did you order this from? Let other members know so they can be > > sure and > > > INFORM that company to do a better job of packing in the future. > You > > should > > > also contact them with your complaint that they did NOT use enough > > cooling > > > product and/or insulation. > > > > > > On a side note, Dr. Tim is actually a member of this group so he may > > chime > > > in himself. You can also contact him directly by going to > > > http://DrTimsAquatics.com or just emailing him at > > > mailto:info@ and let him know the details of what > > > happened, so he can maybe provide the retailer with better > > packing/shipping > > > information.. maybe putting a sticker on the box to keep cool so the > > > delivery person would know to put the package in a shady place > instead > > of > > > out in direct sunlight. > > > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > > > (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the > > right > > > side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, > > Month) > > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] > > On > > > Behalf Of jan1213@ > > > Sent: Saturday, June 20, 2009 7:17 AM > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > > Subject: [AquaticLife] Dr. Tims > > > > > > Dr. Tim's arrived yesterday...on my front porch in the heat...the > dry > > ice > > > was liquid...How do I know this is still good......Jan How would I > > test > > > this? > > > > > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 41166	From: Raymond Wetzel	Date: 6/21/2009
Subject: Re: Dr. Tims

\\Steve//, I hear you with receiving about 200 e-mails a day, and am right there with you. I belong to only 5 aquarium-related groups that generate emails -- the other aquarium groups are Forums, which you need to go up to each time you want to participate in any manner. These Forums send out an email only occassionally, if there is something that needs to be announced to all the members. Then, I also belong to a number of various other groups of interest which also send out emails (in all, I may get up to twice the number of emails you receive). Fortunately, as a Moderator on only four of these aquarium groups, I can open (or delete) any of these other group emails at my discression. You may need to open each and every one, I don't know. Still, I find it exceptionally easy for me to just read down the list of email headings (tags, plus subject topic) to be able to see at a glance what has come in since the time I was last on line. It's all right there before me in black & white and very easy to see, even to spot which messages are in the same thread. Thank you very much again for all your help on this topic; while I don't need to get up at 5:30, I usually do (even earlier) -- which is why you don't usually see much of me here in the evening -- I'm konked out by that time. I know the limitations of the working man, though, which fortunately is a category I'm no longer in. Later, Ray --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Steve Szabo" <steve@...> wrote: > > Ray, > > When one receives approximately 200 e-mails a day, a quick scan is not > all that feasible. And that is what I get just at home, and by the time > I sit in front of the computer, I am lucky to get through all of them > before I need to go to sleep. 5:30 comes awful early in the morning > sometimes. > > \\Steve// > > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] > On Behalf Of Raymond Wetzel > Sent: Saturday, June 20, 2009 7:56 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Dr. Tims > > I've noticed others' emails having the "Re:" in different locations at > times, as you're saying, although I really didn't know how or why that > occured. Still, the entire subject should be visable to anyone scanning > down their email list. Your only explanation as to how my early posts > can be missed would have to occur if the emails were sorted differently, > as you're saying, but then I'm still confused in that if they are sorted > by subject -- I would think that my replies, even though sent after the > original post would still have to appear (with the same subject line) in > view of a later prospective poster regardless of where it might be > placed in order of date (time). Still a puzzle to me, but thanks for > trying to come up with an answer. Ray > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, Amber Berglund <amber@> wrote: > > > > I see what \\Steve// is saying now that I saw your recent post here. > > When you reply from the website it puts your Re: after the group name > > [AquaticLife] and before the subject of the post. When I hit reply in > my > > email program it puts the Re: before the entire subject line including > > > the group name. Perhaps yahoo sorts alphabetically and when the Re: > > moves that changes how they sort the messages? Or it's how your own > > email program sorts them. I sort by date, so the newest post is at the > > > top of my email list. Perhaps Lenny sorts his differently by subject > and > > that is why he replied to the original poster before reading your post > > > Ray? This is just my best guess, but I can see how that could change > how > > email programs sort the emails if it's done by subject and not date. > > > > Amber > > > > Raymond Wetzel wrote: > > > > > > > > > \\Steve//, I'm trying to follow you on this, but right off the bat I > > > > don't understand why you are bringing up "Outlook". Are you saying > > > that Lenny uses Outlook whereas most others don't? -- and that, > that's > > > where the problem lies? I always reply by going to our group web > site > > > and enter my messages from there after opening the poster's message > > > (which I'm doing right now with yours). Are you saying that some > > > people never see my messages on this Group? > > > > > > Since this is not the first occurance by far of redundant > information > > > being posted numerous times over the years, after I've already > posted > > > identical information, I've often wondered why anyone who would read > > > > my info and continue to post the same information, seemingly as if > > > ignoring my posts -- or so it has appeared. I never understood the > > > purpose for doing so, but if they've never seen the initial post > then > > > they would have no way of even knowing it existed, which would > explain > > > this behavior. I'm still at a loss though, to figure out how > > > Yahoogroups can allow for messaging by some members, that cannot be > > > seen by other members, if that's what you're saying. > > > > > > I presume by "Tag" you mean Subject Line (???), I'm not quite sure, > > > but assume so. Here's where I don't understand why a message isn't > > > being read. Doesn't our Group site name appear in the subject line > > > regardless of where it's placed? -- I think I understand you to say > it > > > may be in the beginning or at the end, but even so, with a short > > > subject name, it should still be viewable, or at least I would think > > > > so. Thanks for your efforts in trying to explain this to me. Ray > > > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>, "Steve Szabo" <steve@> > wrote: > > > > > > > > Ray, > > > > > > > > The sort of messages in Outlook depends on whether the reply was > written > > > > online in the website, or if it was written elsewhere. The RE: is > placed > > > > differently--written outside the web site of the list it appears > prior > > > > to the [Aquatic Life] tag, while written inside the list web site > it > > > > appears after the tag.. I've read what I thought to be a thread, > and > > > > replied, only to find out that the question has already been > adequately > > > > answered elsewhere in my sort, but separate from the thread I > replied > > > > to. > > > > > > > > For those of you who do this strictly online, the tag is added > when the > > > > message is sent to a person's e-mail address (and what the heck > are you > > > > doing reading and replying to this stuff online without having the > > > > flexibility that answering a post offline gives you?) > > > > > > > > \\Steve// > > > > > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] > > > > On Behalf Of Raymond Wetzel > > > > Sent: Saturday, June 20, 2009 5:21 PM > > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Dr. Tims > > > > > > > > Funny . . . I thought I remembered reading some of the nearly > exact same > > > > replies on this topic earlier this morning, somewhere around 9:30. > If I > > > > didn't know any better, I'd have to think that you might not read > all > > > > your emails for this Group -- or maybe just selectively read them > (<G> > > > > LOL ROTFL). Ray > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>, "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" > > > > <GoldLenny@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > Add it to your running tank (with no fish), then wait a few > hours or > > > > until > > > > > the next day and then dose the tank with plain ammonia (3 drops > per > > > > gallon) > > > > > and test the tank for ammonia, nitrite, nitrate. Test again in a > few > > > > hours. > > > > > Post results. Within 12-24 hours, all of the ammonia should have > been > > > > > converted to nitrate. If it did, then the Dr. Tim's was not > damaged > > > > and is > > > > > working. At that point, it's safe to add your fish. If you do > not > > > > have > > > > > your fish yet, then keep dosing the tank daily with the plain > ammonia > > > > to > > > > > keep it "cycled" until you are ready to add the fish. > > > > > > > > > > When you took it out of the box, was it HOT or still reasonably > cool > > > > (room > > > > > temperature)? If it didn't get too much over room temperature, > then > > > > it > > > > > should not have been damaged. > > > > > > > > > > As far as the "dry ice was liquid", that's not possible since > dry ice > > > > is > > > > > frozen CO2 and as it "melts" it actually turns into CO2 which is > a > > > > gas, so > > > > > it doesn't actually melt, it evaporates as it warms up from its > frozen > > > > > state. If it was one of those freezer packs like blue ice or > > > > something like > > > > > that, then that is not dry ice. If it was the blue ice type > cooling > > > > > product, was it warm to the touch or was it still at least at > room > > > > > temperature? > > > > > > > > > > Who did you order this from? Let other members know so they can > be > > > > sure and > > > > > INFORM that company to do a better job of packing in the future. > You > > > > should > > > > > also contact them with your complaint that they did NOT use > enough > > > > cooling > > > > > product and/or insulation. > > > > > > > > > > On a side note, Dr. Tim is actually a member of this group so he > may > > > > chime > > > > > in himself. You can also contact him directly by going to > > > > > http://DrTimsAquatics.com <http://DrTimsAquatics.com> or just > > > emailing him at > > > > > mailto:info@ and let him know the details of what > > > > > happened, so he can maybe provide the retailer with better > > > > packing/shipping > > > > > information.. maybe putting a sticker on the box to keep cool so > the > > > > > delivery person would know to put the package in a shady place > instead > > > > of > > > > > out in direct sunlight. > > > > > > > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > > > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > > > (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on > the > > > > right > > > > > side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by > Year, > > > > Month) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] > > > > On > > > > > Behalf Of jan1213@ > > > > > Sent: Saturday, June 20, 2009 7:17 AM > > > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > Subject: [AquaticLife] Dr. Tims > > > > > > > > > > Dr. Tim's arrived yesterday...on my front porch in the > heat...the dry > > > > ice > > > > > was liquid...How do I know this is still good......Jan How would > I > > > > test > > > > > this? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 41167	From: Raymond Wetzel	Date: 6/21/2009
Subject: Re: O/T Flying Cars, was: Ray Fan Club

Wow, looks like I'm more popular than I thought <g> -- emails keep pouring into my fan club. Had to change that subject, finally. The BIG question -- I see \\Steve// showed some examples of flying cars, but there were amphibious cars that could be driven into a lake and back out onto the roadway if you wanted to do some fishing, or just cross a deep river where there was no bridge. I think it was called the Amphicar or something like that, and I believe it came out in the late 1950's or early '60s. Didn't last long though -- it soon went the way of the Edsel (Ford) and Corvair (Chevy). You just didn't want to forget where you were and open the doors <G>. Ray --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@...> wrote: > > And now we're not happy with hi-speed/broadband speeds. LOL > > I just did a little homework. > > A modern dial-up modem is rated at top download speed of 56kbit/s (56,000 > bits/second) which is nearly 50 times faster than a 1200 baud modem of years > gone by. > > Hi-speed is considered anything over 256kbit/s (256,000 bits/second) > download speed or about five times faster than dial up. > > The FCC's definition for "Broadband" is download speed over 768kbit/s > (768,000 bits/second) which is about 15 times faster than dial-up and 750 > times faster than one of those "historic" 1200 baud modems. > > DSL lines have speeds up to around 1.5Mbps (1,500,000+ bits/second) with > Cable modems reaching 2-3Mbps speeds (2,000,000+ to 3,000,000+ bits/second) > and even double those speeds if folks pay for it. These DSL and Cable Modem > speeds are 250 to nearly 600 times faster than dial up modems and over > 15,000 times faster than one of them old 1200 baud modems. Of course, you > can get broadband at much higher speeds. > > And now the BIG question.... why don't we have flying cars yet? The > Jetsons, an authority on the future, clearly showed computer automated > homes, robots and flying cars. We have computers and automated homes, we > have robots... but we're not even close to a flying car yet. If anything, > we're regressing in automotive speed, not progressing as with most other > technologies. > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right > side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) > > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On > Behalf Of Steve Szabo > Sent: Saturday, June 20, 2009 10:15 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Ray Fan Club > > Lenny, > > That would be a 1.2 modem. From that they went to 2400, then 9600 (boy, that > was blazing fast!), to 14.4, then to 28.8 (and you thought 9600 was fast!), > then 33.6 (I think, may have been 33.2, I didn't do the math) and finally > 56.6, which actually exceeds the capacity of the frequency used over a phone > line, which is why you never saw the speed go over about 54K. There were > some compression schemes built in to make the transfers go faster, but one > needed the same type or brand and type of modem on both ends to achieve > that. Then there was compression of files also, which led to the great > compression war, which was won by PKZIP at the time, and a better > compression algorithm fell to the backwaters of the Internet. > > Am I older than dirt (referring to a later reply)? No, there are lots of > people around here older than I, Bill for example, as well as Ray. However, > I can tell you that I was born at a very young age and have stayed true to > my resolution, first made public by J. M. Barrie, to never grow up. He did > screw it up a bit, by adding "never go to school", which I actually did, it > was just that I did not attend a lot of classes while I was there. Probably > a misperception on his part. > > \\Steve// > > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On > Behalf Of Lenny V. aka GoldLenny > Sent: Saturday, June 20, 2009 7:31 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Ray Fan Club > > Oopp.. I said 600 when I meant to type 1200. Was a 1200 baud modem similar > to a 14.4 or would it have been like a 1.2? I'm thinking 1.2 but wanted to > be sure. > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced > in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and > also under Archives by Year, Month) > > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On > Behalf Of Steve Szabo > Sent: Saturday, June 20, 2009 2:15 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Ray Fan Club > > There were no 600 baud modems. I never worked with 120 baud, the speed used > for teletypes, if anyone knows what they are. > > \\Steve// > > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On > Behalf Of Lenny V. aka GoldLenny > Sent: Saturday, June 20, 2009 2:57 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Ray Fan Club > > Wow.. I do not remember ever dealing with 300 or 600 baud modems. I seem to > remember my first was a 14.4kbs but I could be wrong. I will admit that > while I've used computers for a LONG time, I never really got onto the > internet, probably until some time in the 80's, so \\Steve// has a few years > ahead of me on the "net". > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced > in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and > also under Archives by Year, Month) > > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On > Behalf Of bill 1433 > Sent: Saturday, June 20, 2009 12:31 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Ray Fan Club > > > Thanks Steve! >   > I appreciate the information.  A bit of history and learning never hurts > anyone! >   > Bill > > --- On Sat, 6/20/09, Steve Szabo <steve@...> wrote: > > > From: Steve Szabo <steve@...> > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Ray Fan Club > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Date: Saturday, June 20, 2009, 12:47 PM > > > The use of acronyms in online communications began back in the 70's even > before the Internet was public and there was such a thing as the Web. They > arose with the spread of personal computers. There were several systems used > to connect BB's (Bulletin Boards) together. The one I am familiar with is > FIDOnet. For those who do not know, BB's were one of the first means people > had to communicate with one another via the computer. The acronyms came into > use in self defense. One reason was lousy typing skills but a big reason was > for speed. Way back then most used 300 baud modems, and a lucky few may have > had 1200 baud. Baud is a rough equivalent of bits per second, but the two > are not equal. > > When time-sharing outfits, such as CompuServe, started courting the new > consumer market, time became an even bigger factor, since one was charged by > the minute for use, more during business hours, less on off hours. > > \\Steve// > > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On > Behalf Of bill 1433 > Sent: Saturday, June 20, 2009 8:06 AM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Ray Fan Club > > > Lenny, Donna does just fine but I realize others may have a problem keeping > up with her.  To that end I offer:http://www.acronymfinder.com/ > > That should keep everyone on the same page!  But a general Internet Question > here for anyone?  Where or when did the use of these Acronym's first start?  > From the start up of the "Texting" with the cell phone's? > > ol' bill---------always playing catch-up but willing to learn > > > --- On Fri, 6/19/09, Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@...> wrote: > > > From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@...> > > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Ray Fan Club > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > Date: Friday, June 19, 2009, 9:46 PM > > Donna, > > > > You're going to cause Google to crash, with Ol' Bill having to look up > > all them acronyms.  LOL > > > > And that is a fact, IMO... or would that be IMHO? > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles > > referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically > > under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) > >  > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] > > On > > Behalf Of Donna Ransome > > Sent: Friday, June 19, 2009 5:47 PM > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Ray Fan Club > > > > I know Ray too, but leave me out of that fogey group > > please, LOL.  You > > couldn't know a nicer person Amber.  But you > > definitely have to be sure of > > your info before you pass it along.  If you can say > > IME that's best.  If you > > have the citation, that's second best.  If you just > > read it somewhere, > > always a good idea to add a caveat like FWIW and could be > > truth or myth. >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 41168	From: Raymond Wetzel	Date: 6/21/2009
Subject: Re: Ray Fan Club

I'll bet Lenny would like to have one of these for when the cops are chasing him. This would have come in real handy for the Dukes (of Hazard) when Roscoe P. Coaltrain was chasing them. Just great to haul moonshine in. I can see Lenny with one if these cars, with the Union Jack painted on top, of course! ROTFLYAOTIME, Ray --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Steve Szabo" <steve@...> wrote: > > Lenny, > > Of course we have flying cars. Here is one, there are many others out there. > http://auto.howstuffworks.com/flying-car2.htm > > BTW, you can get up to 3 meg out of DSL. You just need to be close enough to the central office offering such speeds. > > > \\Steve// > > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Lenny V. aka GoldLenny > Sent: Saturday, June 20, 2009 11:51 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Ray Fan Club > > And now we're not happy with hi-speed/broadband speeds. LOL > > I just did a little homework. > > A modern dial-up modem is rated at top download speed of 56kbit/s (56,000 > bits/second) which is nearly 50 times faster than a 1200 baud modem of years > gone by. > > Hi-speed is considered anything over 256kbit/s (256,000 bits/second) > download speed or about five times faster than dial up. > > The FCC's definition for "Broadband" is download speed over 768kbit/s > (768,000 bits/second) which is about 15 times faster than dial-up and 750 > times faster than one of those "historic" 1200 baud modems. > > DSL lines have speeds up to around 1.5Mbps (1,500,000+ bits/second) with > Cable modems reaching 2-3Mbps speeds (2,000,000+ to 3,000,000+ bits/second) > and even double those speeds if folks pay for it. These DSL and Cable Modem > speeds are 250 to nearly 600 times faster than dial up modems and over > 15,000 times faster than one of them old 1200 baud modems. Of course, you > can get broadband at much higher speeds. > > And now the BIG question.... why don't we have flying cars yet? The > Jetsons, an authority on the future, clearly showed computer automated > homes, robots and flying cars. We have computers and automated homes, we > have robots... but we're not even close to a flying car yet. If anything, > we're regressing in automotive speed, not progressing as with most other > technologies. > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right > side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) > > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On > Behalf Of Steve Szabo > Sent: Saturday, June 20, 2009 10:15 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Ray Fan Club > > Lenny, > > That would be a 1.2 modem. From that they went to 2400, then 9600 (boy, that > was blazing fast!), to 14.4, then to 28.8 (and you thought 9600 was fast!), > then 33.6 (I think, may have been 33.2, I didn't do the math) and finally > 56.6, which actually exceeds the capacity of the frequency used over a phone > line, which is why you never saw the speed go over about 54K. There were > some compression schemes built in to make the transfers go faster, but one > needed the same type or brand and type of modem on both ends to achieve > that. Then there was compression of files also, which led to the great > compression war, which was won by PKZIP at the time, and a better > compression algorithm fell to the backwaters of the Internet. > > Am I older than dirt (referring to a later reply)? No, there are lots of > people around here older than I, Bill for example, as well as Ray. However, > I can tell you that I was born at a very young age and have stayed true to > my resolution, first made public by J. M. Barrie, to never grow up. He did > screw it up a bit, by adding "never go to school", which I actually did, it > was just that I did not attend a lot of classes while I was there. Probably > a misperception on his part. > > \\Steve// > > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On > Behalf Of Lenny V. aka GoldLenny > Sent: Saturday, June 20, 2009 7:31 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Ray Fan Club > > Oopp.. I said 600 when I meant to type 1200. Was a 1200 baud modem similar > to a 14.4 or would it have been like a 1.2? I'm thinking 1.2 but wanted to > be sure. > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced > in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and > also under Archives by Year, Month) > > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On > Behalf Of Steve Szabo > Sent: Saturday, June 20, 2009 2:15 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Ray Fan Club > > There were no 600 baud modems. I never worked with 120 baud, the speed used > for teletypes, if anyone knows what they are. > > \\Steve// > > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On > Behalf Of Lenny V. aka GoldLenny > Sent: Saturday, June 20, 2009 2:57 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Ray Fan Club > > Wow.. I do not remember ever dealing with 300 or 600 baud modems. I seem to > remember my first was a 14.4kbs but I could be wrong. I will admit that > while I've used computers for a LONG time, I never really got onto the > internet, probably until some time in the 80's, so \\Steve// has a few years > ahead of me on the "net". > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced > in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and > also under Archives by Year, Month) > > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On > Behalf Of bill 1433 > Sent: Saturday, June 20, 2009 12:31 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Ray Fan Club > > > Thanks Steve! >   > I appreciate the information.  A bit of history and learning never hurts > anyone! >   > Bill > > --- On Sat, 6/20/09, Steve Szabo <steve@...> wrote: > > > From: Steve Szabo <steve@...> > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Ray Fan Club > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Date: Saturday, June 20, 2009, 12:47 PM > > > The use of acronyms in online communications began back in the 70's even > before the Internet was public and there was such a thing as the Web. They > arose with the spread of personal computers. There were several systems used > to connect BB's (Bulletin Boards) together. The one I am familiar with is > FIDOnet. For those who do not know, BB's were one of the first means people > had to communicate with one another via the computer. The acronyms came into > use in self defense. One reason was lousy typing skills but a big reason was > for speed. Way back then most used 300 baud modems, and a lucky few may have > had 1200 baud. Baud is a rough equivalent of bits per second, but the two > are not equal. > > When time-sharing outfits, such as CompuServe, started courting the new > consumer market, time became an even bigger factor, since one was charged by > the minute for use, more during business hours, less on off hours. > > \\Steve// > > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On > Behalf Of bill 1433 > Sent: Saturday, June 20, 2009 8:06 AM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Ray Fan Club > > > Lenny, Donna does just fine but I realize others may have a problem keeping > up with her.  To that end I offer:http://www.acronymfinder.com/ > > That should keep everyone on the same page!  But a general Internet Question > here for anyone?  Where or when did the use of these Acronym's first start?  > From the start up of the "Texting" with the cell phone's? > > ol' bill---------always playing catch-up but willing to learn > > > --- On Fri, 6/19/09, Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@...> wrote: > > > From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@...> > > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Ray Fan Club > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > Date: Friday, June 19, 2009, 9:46 PM > > Donna, > > > > You're going to cause Google to crash, with Ol' Bill having to look up > > all them acronyms.  LOL > > > > And that is a fact, IMO... or would that be IMHO? > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles > > referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically > > under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) > >  > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] > > On > > Behalf Of Donna Ransome > > Sent: Friday, June 19, 2009 5:47 PM > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Ray Fan Club > > > > I know Ray too, but leave me out of that fogey group > > please, LOL.  You > > couldn't know a nicer person Amber.  But you > > definitely have to be sure of > > your info before you pass it along.  If you can say > > IME that's best.  If you > > have the citation, that's second best.  If you just > > read it somewhere, > > always a good idea to add a caveat like FWIW and could be > > truth or myth. >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 41169	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 6/21/2009
Subject: Re: O/T Flying Cars, was: Ray Fan Club

For amphibious vehicles, check out http://www.watercar.com/ and the related video, http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tgv9nqo0kGs, as well as http://www.terrawind.com/, and http://editorial.autos.msn.com/article.aspx?cp-documentid=434464. The only pricing I found was on the Terra Wind site. The RV starts in the $850,000's and goes up from there, the Hydra Spyder at $175,000, but there is no pricing on the Hydra Terra on the same site. \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Raymond Wetzel Sent: Sunday, June 21, 2009 8:30 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: O/T Flying Cars, was: Ray Fan Club Wow, looks like I'm more popular than I thought <g> -- emails keep pouring into my fan club. Had to change that subject, finally. The BIG question -- I see \\Steve// showed some examples of flying cars, but there were amphibious cars that could be driven into a lake and back out onto the roadway if you wanted to do some fishing, or just cross a deep river where there was no bridge. I think it was called the Amphicar or something like that, and I believe it came out in the late 1950's or early '60s. Didn't last long though -- it soon went the way of the Edsel (Ford) and Corvair (Chevy). You just didn't want to forget where you were and open the doors <G>. Ray --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@...> wrote: > > And now we're not happy with hi-speed/broadband speeds. LOL > > I just did a little homework. > > A modern dial-up modem is rated at top download speed of 56kbit/s (56,000 > bits/second) which is nearly 50 times faster than a 1200 baud modem of years > gone by. > > Hi-speed is considered anything over 256kbit/s (256,000 bits/second) > download speed or about five times faster than dial up. > > The FCC's definition for "Broadband" is download speed over 768kbit/s > (768,000 bits/second) which is about 15 times faster than dial-up and 750 > times faster than one of those "historic" 1200 baud modems. > > DSL lines have speeds up to around 1.5Mbps (1,500,000+ bits/second) with > Cable modems reaching 2-3Mbps speeds (2,000,000+ to 3,000,000+ bits/second) > and even double those speeds if folks pay for it. These DSL and Cable Modem > speeds are 250 to nearly 600 times faster than dial up modems and over > 15,000 times faster than one of them old 1200 baud modems. Of course, you > can get broadband at much higher speeds. > > And now the BIG question.... why don't we have flying cars yet? The > Jetsons, an authority on the future, clearly showed computer automated > homes, robots and flying cars. We have computers and automated homes, we > have robots... but we're not even close to a flying car yet. If anything, > we're regressing in automotive speed, not progressing as with most other > technologies. > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right > side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) > > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On > Behalf Of Steve Szabo > Sent: Saturday, June 20, 2009 10:15 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Ray Fan Club > > Lenny, > > That would be a 1.2 modem. From that they went to 2400, then 9600 (boy, that > was blazing fast!), to 14.4, then to 28.8 (and you thought 9600 was fast!), > then 33.6 (I think, may have been 33.2, I didn't do the math) and finally > 56.6, which actually exceeds the capacity of the frequency used over a phone > line, which is why you never saw the speed go over about 54K. There were > some compression schemes built in to make the transfers go faster, but one > needed the same type or brand and type of modem on both ends to achieve > that. Then there was compression of files also, which led to the great > compression war, which was won by PKZIP at the time, and a better > compression algorithm fell to the backwaters of the Internet. > > Am I older than dirt (referring to a later reply)? No, there are lots of > people around here older than I, Bill for example, as well as Ray. However, > I can tell you that I was born at a very young age and have stayed true to > my resolution, first made public by J. M. Barrie, to never grow up. He did > screw it up a bit, by adding "never go to school", which I actually did, it > was just that I did not attend a lot of classes while I was there. Probably > a misperception on his part. > > \\Steve// > > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On > Behalf Of Lenny V. aka GoldLenny > Sent: Saturday, June 20, 2009 7:31 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Ray Fan Club > > Oopp.. I said 600 when I meant to type 1200. Was a 1200 baud modem similar > to a 14.4 or would it have been like a 1.2? I'm thinking 1.2 but wanted to > be sure. > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced > in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and > also under Archives by Year, Month) > > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On > Behalf Of Steve Szabo > Sent: Saturday, June 20, 2009 2:15 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Ray Fan Club > > There were no 600 baud modems. I never worked with 120 baud, the speed used > for teletypes, if anyone knows what they are. > > \\Steve// > > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On > Behalf Of Lenny V. aka GoldLenny > Sent: Saturday, June 20, 2009 2:57 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Ray Fan Club > > Wow.. I do not remember ever dealing with 300 or 600 baud modems. I seem to > remember my first was a 14.4kbs but I could be wrong. I will admit that > while I've used computers for a LONG time, I never really got onto the > internet, probably until some time in the 80's, so \\Steve// has a few years > ahead of me on the "net". > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced > in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and > also under Archives by Year, Month) > > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On > Behalf Of bill 1433 > Sent: Saturday, June 20, 2009 12:31 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Ray Fan Club > > > Thanks Steve! >   > I appreciate the information.  A bit of history and learning never hurts > anyone! >   > Bill > > --- On Sat, 6/20/09, Steve Szabo <steve@...> wrote: > > > From: Steve Szabo <steve@...> > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Ray Fan Club > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Date: Saturday, June 20, 2009, 12:47 PM > > > The use of acronyms in online communications began back in the 70's even > before the Internet was public and there was such a thing as the Web. They > arose with the spread of personal computers. There were several systems used > to connect BB's (Bulletin Boards) together. The one I am familiar with is > FIDOnet. For those who do not know, BB's were one of the first means people > had to communicate with one another via the computer. The acronyms came into > use in self defense. One reason was lousy typing skills but a big reason was > for speed. Way back then most used 300 baud modems, and a lucky few may have > had 1200 baud. Baud is a rough equivalent of bits per second, but the two > are not equal. > > When time-sharing outfits, such as CompuServe, started courting the new > consumer market, time became an even bigger factor, since one was charged by > the minute for use, more during business hours, less on off hours. > > \\Steve// > > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On > Behalf Of bill 1433 > Sent: Saturday, June 20, 2009 8:06 AM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Ray Fan Club > > > Lenny, Donna does just fine but I realize others may have a problem keeping > up with her.  To that end I offer:http://www.acronymfinder.com/ > > That should keep everyone on the same page!  But a general Internet Question > here for anyone?  Where or when did the use of these Acronym's first start?  > From the start up of the "Texting" with the cell phone's? > > ol' bill---------always playing catch-up but willing to learn > > > --- On Fri, 6/19/09, Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@...> wrote: > > > From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@...> > > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Ray Fan Club > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > Date: Friday, June 19, 2009, 9:46 PM > > Donna, > > > > You're going to cause Google to crash, with Ol' Bill having to look up > > all them acronyms.  LOL > > > > And that is a fact, IMO... or would that be IMHO? > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles > > referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically > > under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) > >  > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] > > On > > Behalf Of Donna Ransome > > Sent: Friday, June 19, 2009 5:47 PM > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Ray Fan Club > > > > I know Ray too, but leave me out of that fogey group > > please, LOL.  You > > couldn't know a nicer person Amber.  But you > > definitely have to be sure of > > your info before you pass it along.  If you can say > > IME that's best.  If you > > have the citation, that's second best.  If you just > > read it somewhere, > > always a good idea to add a caveat like FWIW and could be > > truth or myth. >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 41170	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 6/21/2009
Subject: Re: O/T Outlook Configuration, \\Steve//, was: Dr. Tims

Ray, There are time constraints I mentioned earlier. When I get home in the evening, having already worked a 10-14 hour day, I have about 2 hours to go through the +/-200 messages waiting. A lot of the message I get are not easy reads, jokes and stuff like that, but do take some time to read since they cover topics like networking (computer), other things computer in a technical sense, certain legal topics, though I am not a lawyer, news (usually an easy read) and fish/aquarium topics. There are a good number of one off messages, i.e. those that are not threaded because they are newsletters and other non-list correspondence. There will be between 500-800 messages in my Inbox at any given time. There is some prioritizing, I'll go through my Inbox to start, sorted by receipt, and I'll quickly remove the Freecycle stuff, unless there is something I'm interested in, marking whole groups of them as read and deleting in one fell swoop. While I am doing that, I am also looking for messages that have direct bearing on one of my businesses so I can handle them ASAP. Then I'll go through messages I have previously marked to be handled by that day, and dispose of them. Then, I'll go through the remaining new messages starting with the oldest one (as received) and work my way through the list. If any of these messages are list messages, I'll sort on subject to find if there is a thread, so I can read the whole thread to determine if it is worth writing a reply. I am aware, as you have seen, of how Yahoo! manages their list messages with subject tags, and I will give a quick scroll to see if I see any others, but if they are not close in the sort, more than two or three scroll wheel turns, I go no further, and write a reply if I feel that one is needed. I'll then go down the threads until I hit a single message and them put the sort back to receipt, now working may way down the list with each message read being received earlier than the one previously read, unless or until I hit the earliest one, at which time I go back to reading the way I started, until I hit the next threaded message. This allows me to spend only 2-3 hours reading messages, writing replies and writing new messages. One may notice that I tend to be more verbose on the weekends and holidays, simply because I have more time. If I have to refer back to an earlier message, it is easy enough to do so. If I need to research, my browser is always open, and a quick bookmark or search usually enables me to find the answer I need. Over the last several years there has been a big drive to improve the "stickiness" of a site, in other words to keep people at the site, rather than having them do a hit and run. This is especially true of sites that depend on advertising revenue for a big chunk of their income, and it is a big selling point to advertisers that they court for a site to say that the average visitor stays for 22 minutes for each visit to the site. It increase the chance there will be a click on an ad, on purpose or inadvertently. There are some sites out there with very good "forums" as they call them, where the only way you can get and send messages is to visit the site and read online and/or post online. There is no mail functionality to them. I very seldom visit those sites, unless I am looking for something specifically, and then it is only to take rather than to participate. I just don't have the time, and I know I am not the only one. I just don't have the time to hop from forum to forum each night looking to see what is available. And, before someone like Lenny says I should get a faster connection, I already have a connection that can receive information than a lot of these sites will send it to me, with 20mbps down. Back to Yahoo!. It simply is not efficient for me to work online with Yahoo! and the way it handles replies with tags in the subject to those who receive mails sent to outside destinations is deplorable. However, it is less disruptive to my workflow than using the web interface. \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Raymond Wetzel Sent: Sunday, June 21, 2009 7:49 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: O/T Outlook Configuration, \\Steve//, was: Dr. Tims Hi \\Steve//, I appreciate the time it took you to explain all this -- especially in a way that makes it absolutely clear to me (I think <g>). I never realized there could be that much difference in the way subject lines are received. Still, as the computer operator of the machine that uses Outlook, you would be aware of this difference in the Subject line and should know what to expect. And, knowing what to expect, once you see a member posting a new question -- with it's particular, new Subject heading/name -- and after realizing that it's coming through the "Aquatic Life" Group -- wouldn't any other same-worded Subject headings alert you to the fact that these additional messages are threads to the original poster's message -- regardless of the position or presence of "Re:" or the presence or absence of the tag "AquaticLife"? After all, you chose to use Outlook, so you should know what to look for and what to expect. Any change in the Subject line being sent by various members should not be a surprise to you -- and please know I'm not trying to be contrary here, but just trying to understand this further. Now getting back to Outlook's benefit of being able to use color, which is a good advantage -- are there any other benefits of this? I too would like the option of using color (can I presume you could use any option in your toolbar? -- size, font, bold, etc.?), but to me I don't think it would outweigh the advantage I have when I can compose a message right on the website page. If I write a reply to a post that I need to refer back to several times, I need to Minimize the page that I'm writing to see the original message underneath. Then, I need to minimize that message to be able to retrieve my own Minimized message to continue writing, and so on, back and forth if the content of the first message is lengthy (or varied) enough to make it difficult to remember it all (unless I print it out). When I compose my message on the website, I just need to scroll down to the original poster's message that's underneath mine to continually refer back to it, if I need to -- it's always there in plain view -- no minimizing-- maximizing (normalizing) games. Maybe there's something I'm missing here, I don't know. Ray --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Steve Szabo" <steve@...> wrote: > > Ray, > > I was not referring to Lenny in my post, but myself. However, I know > that Lenny also uses Outlook, and I am sure that many others do as well. > When I look at messages on line, there is no tag in the subject line. > This tag "[AquaticLife]" is seen by those who have the mail delivered to > their mail server and then read it with a mail reader such as Outlook. I > note now that this tag does not show online, even if the message is sent > as a reply from outside the web site. It appears that Yahoo! strips it > out. Now, for those of us not working within the online environment > within the web site of the list, the original message will appear with a > subject line looking like this: > [AquaticLife] Dr. Tims > The original message's subject shown in the web site appears like this: > Dr. Tims > Thus far, no problem, a thread has not developed. > > Now, if I was to reply to this message from my Outlook, the subject that > comes back is: > RE: [AquaticLife] Dr. Tims > While you would see it on the web site as: > Re: Dr. Tims > Outlook will sort just fine with the first format shown here, the " RE: > [AquaticLife] Dr. Tims" just fine because it will ignore the RE: at the > beginning. > > The problem occurs when someone relies on the web site. The subject > online will still look normal to you, but what shows up in the Inbox of > a reader is very different. Online, you see: > Re: Dr. Tims > And you can sort the thread by that with no problem. They call it > "group by topic" at Yahoo!. However, what I would see is: > RE: [AquaticLife] Re: Dr. Tims > And therein is the problem. For the sort, the first RE: is ignored, but > the second is not, therefore the message gets sorted on the "Re:" and > not the "Dr.". This puts that portion of the thread into another > grouping of messages, all that have that subject. And, it can even get > worse. Sometimes there are multiple "Re:"s in the subject line after > the tag. This then throws the message into another sort group. > > So, for us who work offline, there is a problem. We will not see all the > messages in a thread. We will read what is there, and reply to that. I > am aware of this, but do not always have the time to look through the > sort to see if there are any other pieces to the thread, thanks to > Yahoo!'s crazy way of handling the messages going out since they can be > widely separated from each other. > > What can be done about this? Forcing everyone to use a mail reader is > not feasible. Yahoo! will not allow it, they want people to read the ads > presented that help pay for the service. However, these tags are not > mandatory. It may be time for those who run this list to take a look at > the use of the tags and whether the use of the tag here should be > continued. Outlook gives me the option of using color to show messages > from a particular source, but not all readers do this. Perhaps a poll on > the tag would give some useful information to those who would make the > determination. There are lists here that do not have the tag in their > subject line. > > \\Steve// > > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] > On Behalf Of Raymond Wetzel > Sent: Saturday, June 20, 2009 6:46 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Dr. Tims > > \\Steve//, I'm trying to follow you on this, but right off the bat I > don't understand why you are bringing up "Outlook". Are you saying that > Lenny uses Outlook whereas most others don't? -- and that, that's where > the problem lies? I always reply by going to our group web site and > enter my messages from there after opening the poster's message (which > I'm doing right now with yours). Are you saying that some people never > see my messages on this Group? > > Since this is not the first occurance by far of redundant information > being posted numerous times over the years, after I've already posted > identical information, I've often wondered why anyone who would read my > info and continue to post the same information, seemingly as if ignoring > my posts -- or so it has appeared. I never understood the purpose for > doing so, but if they've never seen the initial post then they would > have no way of even knowing it existed, which would explain this > behavior. I'm still at a loss though, to figure out how Yahoogroups can > allow for messaging by some members, that cannot be seen by other > members, if that's what you're saying. > > I presume by "Tag" you mean Subject Line (???), I'm not quite sure, but > assume so. Here's where I don't understand why a message isn't being > read. Doesn't our Group site name appear in the subject line regardless > of where it's placed? -- I think I understand you to say it may be in > the beginning or at the end, but even so, with a short subject name, it > should still be viewable, or at least I would think so. Thanks for your > efforts in trying to explain this to me. Ray > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Steve Szabo" <steve@> wrote: > > > > Ray, > > > > The sort of messages in Outlook depends on whether the reply was > written > > online in the website, or if it was written elsewhere. The RE: is > placed > > differently--written outside the web site of the list it appears prior > > to the [Aquatic Life] tag, while written inside the list web site it > > appears after the tag.. I've read what I thought to be a thread, and > > replied, only to find out that the question has already been > adequately > > answered elsewhere in my sort, but separate from the thread I replied > > to. > > > > For those of you who do this strictly online, the tag is added when > the > > message is sent to a person's e-mail address (and what the heck are > you > > doing reading and replying to this stuff online without having the > > flexibility that answering a post offline gives you?) > > > > \\Steve// > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] > > On Behalf Of Raymond Wetzel > > Sent: Saturday, June 20, 2009 5:21 PM > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Dr. Tims > > > > Funny . . . I thought I remembered reading some of the nearly exact > same > > replies on this topic earlier this morning, somewhere around 9:30. If > I > > didn't know any better, I'd have to think that you might not read all > > your emails for this Group -- or maybe just selectively read them (<G> > > LOL ROTFL). Ray > > > > > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" > > <GoldLenny@> wrote: > > > > > > Add it to your running tank (with no fish), then wait a few hours or > > until > > > the next day and then dose the tank with plain ammonia (3 drops per > > gallon) > > > and test the tank for ammonia, nitrite, nitrate. Test again in a > few > > hours. > > > Post results. Within 12-24 hours, all of the ammonia should have > been > > > converted to nitrate. If it did, then the Dr. Tim's was not damaged > > and is > > > working. At that point, it's safe to add your fish. If you do not > > have > > > your fish yet, then keep dosing the tank daily with the plain > ammonia > > to > > > keep it "cycled" until you are ready to add the fish. > > > > > > When you took it out of the box, was it HOT or still reasonably cool > > (room > > > temperature)? If it didn't get too much over room temperature, then > > it > > > should not have been damaged. > > > > > > As far as the "dry ice was liquid", that's not possible since dry > ice > > is > > > frozen CO2 and as it "melts" it actually turns into CO2 which is a > > gas, so > > > it doesn't actually melt, it evaporates as it warms up from its > frozen > > > state. If it was one of those freezer packs like blue ice or > > something like > > > that, then that is not dry ice. If it was the blue ice type cooling > > > product, was it warm to the touch or was it still at least at room > > > temperature? > > > > > > Who did you order this from? Let other members know so they can be > > sure and > > > INFORM that company to do a better job of packing in the future. > You > > should > > > also contact them with your complaint that they did NOT use enough > > cooling > > > product and/or insulation. > > > > > > On a side note, Dr. Tim is actually a member of this group so he may > > chime > > > in himself. You can also contact him directly by going to > > > http://DrTimsAquatics.com or just emailing him at > > > mailto:info@ and let him know the details of what > > > happened, so he can maybe provide the retailer with better > > packing/shipping > > > information.. maybe putting a sticker on the box to keep cool so the > > > delivery person would know to put the package in a shady place > instead > > of > > > out in direct sunlight. > > > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > > > (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the > > right > > > side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, > > Month) > > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] > > On > > > Behalf Of jan1213@ > > > Sent: Saturday, June 20, 2009 7:17 AM > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > > Subject: [AquaticLife] Dr. Tims > > > > > > Dr. Tim's arrived yesterday...on my front porch in the heat...the > dry > > ice > > > was liquid...How do I know this is still good......Jan How would I > > test > > > this? > > > > > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 41171	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 6/21/2009
Subject: Re: Dr. Tims

Ray, You don't even want to know the volume I get a t work, then <g>. \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Raymond Wetzel Sent: Sunday, June 21, 2009 8:15 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Dr. Tims \\Steve//, I hear you with receiving about 200 e-mails a day, and am right there with you. I belong to only 5 aquarium-related groups that generate emails -- the other aquarium groups are Forums, which you need to go up to each time you want to participate in any manner. These Forums send out an email only occassionally, if there is something that needs to be announced to all the members. Then, I also belong to a number of various other groups of interest which also send out emails (in all, I may get up to twice the number of emails you receive). Fortunately, as a Moderator on only four of these aquarium groups, I can open (or delete) any of these other group emails at my discression. You may need to open each and every one, I don't know. Still, I find it exceptionally easy for me to just read down the list of email headings (tags, plus subject topic) to be able to see at a glance what has come in since the time I was last on line. It's all right there before me in black & white and very easy to see, even to spot which messages are in the same thread. Thank you very much again for all your help on this topic; while I don't need to get up at 5:30, I usually do (even earlier) -- which is why you don't usually see much of me here in the evening -- I'm konked out by that time. I know the limitations of the working man, though, which fortunately is a category I'm no longer in. Later, Ray --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Steve Szabo" <steve@...> wrote: > > Ray, > > When one receives approximately 200 e-mails a day, a quick scan is not > all that feasible. And that is what I get just at home, and by the time > I sit in front of the computer, I am lucky to get through all of them > before I need to go to sleep. 5:30 comes awful early in the morning > sometimes. > > \\Steve// > > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] > On Behalf Of Raymond Wetzel > Sent: Saturday, June 20, 2009 7:56 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Dr. Tims > > I've noticed others' emails having the "Re:" in different locations at > times, as you're saying, although I really didn't know how or why that > occured. Still, the entire subject should be visable to anyone scanning > down their email list. Your only explanation as to how my early posts > can be missed would have to occur if the emails were sorted differently, > as you're saying, but then I'm still confused in that if they are sorted > by subject -- I would think that my replies, even though sent after the > original post would still have to appear (with the same subject line) in > view of a later prospective poster regardless of where it might be > placed in order of date (time). Still a puzzle to me, but thanks for > trying to come up with an answer. Ray > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, Amber Berglund <amber@> wrote: > > > > I see what \\Steve// is saying now that I saw your recent post here. > > When you reply from the website it puts your Re: after the group name > > [AquaticLife] and before the subject of the post. When I hit reply in > my > > email program it puts the Re: before the entire subject line including > > > the group name. Perhaps yahoo sorts alphabetically and when the Re: > > moves that changes how they sort the messages? Or it's how your own > > email program sorts them. I sort by date, so the newest post is at the > > > top of my email list. Perhaps Lenny sorts his differently by subject > and > > that is why he replied to the original poster before reading your post > > > Ray? This is just my best guess, but I can see how that could change > how > > email programs sort the emails if it's done by subject and not date. > > > > Amber > > > > Raymond Wetzel wrote: > > > > > > > > > \\Steve//, I'm trying to follow you on this, but right off the bat I > > > > don't understand why you are bringing up "Outlook". Are you saying > > > that Lenny uses Outlook whereas most others don't? -- and that, > that's > > > where the problem lies? I always reply by going to our group web > site > > > and enter my messages from there after opening the poster's message > > > (which I'm doing right now with yours). Are you saying that some > > > people never see my messages on this Group? > > > > > > Since this is not the first occurance by far of redundant > information > > > being posted numerous times over the years, after I've already > posted > > > identical information, I've often wondered why anyone who would read > > > > my info and continue to post the same information, seemingly as if > > > ignoring my posts -- or so it has appeared. I never understood the > > > purpose for doing so, but if they've never seen the initial post > then > > > they would have no way of even knowing it existed, which would > explain > > > this behavior. I'm still at a loss though, to figure out how > > > Yahoogroups can allow for messaging by some members, that cannot be > > > seen by other members, if that's what you're saying. > > > > > > I presume by "Tag" you mean Subject Line (???), I'm not quite sure, > > > but assume so. Here's where I don't understand why a message isn't > > > being read. Doesn't our Group site name appear in the subject line > > > regardless of where it's placed? -- I think I understand you to say > it > > > may be in the beginning or at the end, but even so, with a short > > > subject name, it should still be viewable, or at least I would think > > > > so. Thanks for your efforts in trying to explain this to me. Ray > > > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>, "Steve Szabo" <steve@> > wrote: > > > > > > > > Ray, > > > > > > > > The sort of messages in Outlook depends on whether the reply was > written > > > > online in the website, or if it was written elsewhere. The RE: is > placed > > > > differently--written outside the web site of the list it appears > prior > > > > to the [Aquatic Life] tag, while written inside the list web site > it > > > > appears after the tag.. I've read what I thought to be a thread, > and > > > > replied, only to find out that the question has already been > adequately > > > > answered elsewhere in my sort, but separate from the thread I > replied > > > > to. > > > > > > > > For those of you who do this strictly online, the tag is added > when the > > > > message is sent to a person's e-mail address (and what the heck > are you > > > > doing reading and replying to this stuff online without having the > > > > flexibility that answering a post offline gives you?) > > > > > > > > \\Steve// > > > > > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] > > > > On Behalf Of Raymond Wetzel > > > > Sent: Saturday, June 20, 2009 5:21 PM > > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Dr. Tims > > > > > > > > Funny . . . I thought I remembered reading some of the nearly > exact same > > > > replies on this topic earlier this morning, somewhere around 9:30. > If I > > > > didn't know any better, I'd have to think that you might not read > all > > > > your emails for this Group -- or maybe just selectively read them > (<G> > > > > LOL ROTFL). Ray > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>, "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" > > > > <GoldLenny@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > Add it to your running tank (with no fish), then wait a few > hours or > > > > until > > > > > the next day and then dose the tank with plain ammonia (3 drops > per > > > > gallon) > > > > > and test the tank for ammonia, nitrite, nitrate. Test again in a > few > > > > hours. > > > > > Post results. Within 12-24 hours, all of the ammonia should have > been > > > > > converted to nitrate. If it did, then the Dr. Tim's was not > damaged > > > > and is > > > > > working. At that point, it's safe to add your fish. If you do > not > > > > have > > > > > your fish yet, then keep dosing the tank daily with the plain > ammonia > > > > to > > > > > keep it "cycled" until you are ready to add the fish. > > > > > > > > > > When you took it out of the box, was it HOT or still reasonably > cool > > > > (room > > > > > temperature)? If it didn't get too much over room temperature, > then > > > > it > > > > > should not have been damaged. > > > > > > > > > > As far as the "dry ice was liquid", that's not possible since > dry ice > > > > is > > > > > frozen CO2 and as it "melts" it actually turns into CO2 which is > a > > > > gas, so > > > > > it doesn't actually melt, it evaporates as it warms up from its > frozen > > > > > state. If it was one of those freezer packs like blue ice or > > > > something like > > > > > that, then that is not dry ice. If it was the blue ice type > cooling > > > > > product, was it warm to the touch or was it still at least at > room > > > > > temperature? > > > > > > > > > > Who did you order this from? Let other members know so they can > be > > > > sure and > > > > > INFORM that company to do a better job of packing in the future. > You > > > > should > > > > > also contact them with your complaint that they did NOT use > enough > > > > cooling > > > > > product and/or insulation. > > > > > > > > > > On a side note, Dr. Tim is actually a member of this group so he > may > > > > chime > > > > > in himself. You can also contact him directly by going to > > > > > http://DrTimsAquatics.com <http://DrTimsAquatics.com> or just > > > emailing him at > > > > > mailto:info@ and let him know the details of what > > > > > happened, so he can maybe provide the retailer with better > > > > packing/shipping > > > > > information.. maybe putting a sticker on the box to keep cool so > the > > > > > delivery person would know to put the package in a shady place > instead > > > > of > > > > > out in direct sunlight. > > > > > > > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > > > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > > > (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on > the > > > > right > > > > > side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by > Year, > > > > Month) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] > > > > On > > > > > Behalf Of jan1213@ > > > > > Sent: Saturday, June 20, 2009 7:17 AM > > > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > Subject: [AquaticLife] Dr. Tims > > > > > > > > > > Dr. Tim's arrived yesterday...on my front porch in the > heat...the dry > > > > ice > > > > > was liquid...How do I know this is still good......Jan How would > I > > > > test > > > > > this? > > > > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 41172	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 6/21/2009
Subject: Re: Ray Fan Club

YEEEEE HAWWWWWWWWWWWW!!!! As Jeff Foxworthy would say, "You know you're a redneck when you have the Rebel flag painted on the top of your car!" Of course, I like many of his other Redneck jokes much better. LOL Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Raymond Wetzel Sent: Sunday, June 21, 2009 7:46 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Ray Fan Club I'll bet Lenny would like to have one of these for when the cops are chasing him. This would have come in real handy for the Dukes (of Hazard) when Roscoe P. Coaltrain was chasing them. Just great to haul moonshine in. I can see Lenny with one if these cars, with the Union Jack painted on top, of course! ROTFLYAOTIME, Ray --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Steve Szabo" <steve@...> wrote: > > Lenny, > > Of course we have flying cars. Here is one, there are many others out there. > http://auto.howstuffworks.com/flying-car2.htm > > BTW, you can get up to 3 meg out of DSL. You just need to be close enough to the central office offering such speeds. > > > \\Steve// > > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] > On Behalf Of Lenny V. aka GoldLenny > Sent: Saturday, June 20, 2009 11:51 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Ray Fan Club > > And now we're not happy with hi-speed/broadband speeds. LOL > > I just did a little homework. > > A modern dial-up modem is rated at top download speed of 56kbit/s > (56,000 > bits/second) which is nearly 50 times faster than a 1200 baud modem of > years gone by. > > Hi-speed is considered anything over 256kbit/s (256,000 bits/second) > download speed or about five times faster than dial up. > > The FCC's definition for "Broadband" is download speed over 768kbit/s > (768,000 bits/second) which is about 15 times faster than dial-up and > 750 times faster than one of those "historic" 1200 baud modems. > > DSL lines have speeds up to around 1.5Mbps (1,500,000+ bits/second) > with Cable modems reaching 2-3Mbps speeds (2,000,000+ to 3,000,000+ > bits/second) and even double those speeds if folks pay for it. These > DSL and Cable Modem speeds are 250 to nearly 600 times faster than > dial up modems and over 15,000 times faster than one of them old 1200 > baud modems. Of course, you can get broadband at much higher speeds. > > And now the BIG question.... why don't we have flying cars yet? The > Jetsons, an authority on the future, clearly showed computer automated > homes, robots and flying cars. We have computers and automated homes, > we have robots... but we're not even close to a flying car yet. If > anything, we're regressing in automotive speed, not progressing as > with most other technologies. > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles > referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically > under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month)

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 41173	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 6/21/2009
Subject: Re: O/T Outlook Configuration, \\Steve//, was: Dr. Tims

And then there is always the PROBLEM or threat, when typing a long reply in an online forum and you hit the send button and the dang website freezes, or due to Adobe Flash Ads, IE freezes up, or worse case scenario, your computer freezes up and you lose your LONG REPLY. At least with Outlook, as I'm typing a long reply, I have Outlook set to constantly save the reply as a Draft so even if something should happen to cause my computer to freeze up, I do not lose my work. I also this auto-draft-saving feature set up on MS-Word, my blogs and most other programs where I might type long letters/posts/replies. Auto-draft-saving is a God send, after having lost stuff in the past. Gmail's web interface has the auto-draft-saving feature as do most of the web interfaces of blogging sites, including my own. It's a shame that Yahoo Groups does not have this feature. I know this has happened to you in the past, as it has with me also, which is why I choose to use Outlook to do my replying... especially since I tend to be long-winded. Of course, others may say I'm just full of wind. LOL I guess I could start doing the Subject line sorting but I think that many folks appreciate someone "seconding" a post, whether it just be "I agree with _______" or by intentionally or inadvertently typing a similar reply after the first reply was already posted. This is even more true if the OP (Original Poster) is new and does not know the person replying and whether their reply is completely accurate. At least if they see two or more replies with similar information, they'll feel more comfortable relying on said replies. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Steve Szabo Sent: Sunday, June 21, 2009 9:03 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: O/T Outlook Configuration, \\Steve//, was: Dr. Tims Ray, There are time constraints I mentioned earlier. When I get home in the evening, having already worked a 10-14 hour day, I have about 2 hours to go through the +/-200 messages waiting. A lot of the message I get are not easy reads, jokes and stuff like that, but do take some time to read since they cover topics like networking (computer), other things computer in a technical sense, certain legal topics, though I am not a lawyer, news (usually an easy read) and fish/aquarium topics. There are a good number of one off messages, i.e. those that are not threaded because they are newsletters and other non-list correspondence. There will be between 500-800 messages in my Inbox at any given time. There is some prioritizing, I'll go through my Inbox to start, sorted by receipt, and I'll quickly remove the Freecycle stuff, unless there is something I'm interested in, marking whole groups of them as read and deleting in one fell swoop. While I am doing that, I am also looking for messages that have direct bearing on one of my businesses so I can handle them ASAP. Then I'll go through messages I have previously marked to be handled by that day, and dispose of them. Then, I'll go through the remaining new messages starting with the oldest one (as received) and work my way through the list. If any of these messages are list messages, I'll sort on subject to find if there is a thread, so I can read the whole thread to determine if it is worth writing a reply. I am aware, as you have seen, of how Yahoo! manages their list messages with subject tags, and I will give a quick scroll to see if I see any others, but if they are not close in the sort, more than two or three scroll wheel turns, I go no further, and write a reply if I feel that one is needed. I'll then go down the threads until I hit a single message and them put the sort back to receipt, now working may way down the list with each message read being received earlier than the one previously read, unless or until I hit the earliest one, at which time I go back to reading the way I started, until I hit the next threaded message. This allows me to spend only 2-3 hours reading messages, writing replies and writing new messages. One may notice that I tend to be more verbose on the weekends and holidays, simply because I have more time. If I have to refer back to an earlier message, it is easy enough to do so. If I need to research, my browser is always open, and a quick bookmark or search usually enables me to find the answer I need. Over the last several years there has been a big drive to improve the "stickiness" of a site, in other words to keep people at the site, rather than having them do a hit and run. This is especially true of sites that depend on advertising revenue for a big chunk of their income, and it is a big selling point to advertisers that they court for a site to say that the average visitor stays for 22 minutes for each visit to the site. It increase the chance there will be a click on an ad, on purpose or inadvertently. There are some sites out there with very good "forums" as they call them, where the only way you can get and send messages is to visit the site and read online and/or post online. There is no mail functionality to them. I very seldom visit those sites, unless I am looking for something specifically, and then it is only to take rather than to participate. I just don't have the time, and I know I am not the only one. I just don't have the time to hop from forum to forum each night looking to see what is available. And, before someone like Lenny says I should get a faster connection, I already have a connection that can receive information than a lot of these sites will send it to me, with 20mbps down. Back to Yahoo!. It simply is not efficient for me to work online with Yahoo! and the way it handles replies with tags in the subject to those who receive mails sent to outside destinations is deplorable. However, it is less disruptive to my workflow than using the web interface. \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Raymond Wetzel Sent: Sunday, June 21, 2009 7:49 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: O/T Outlook Configuration, \\Steve//, was: Dr. Tims Hi \\Steve//, I appreciate the time it took you to explain all this -- especially in a way that makes it absolutely clear to me (I think <g>). I never realized there could be that much difference in the way subject lines are received. Still, as the computer operator of the machine that uses Outlook, you would be aware of this difference in the Subject line and should know what to expect. And, knowing what to expect, once you see a member posting a new question -- with it's particular, new Subject heading/name -- and after realizing that it's coming through the "Aquatic Life" Group -- wouldn't any other same-worded Subject headings alert you to the fact that these additional messages are threads to the original poster's message -- regardless of the position or presence of "Re:" or the presence or absence of the tag "AquaticLife"? After all, you chose to use Outlook, so you should know what to look for and what to expect. Any change in the Subject line being sent by various members should not be a surprise to you -- and please know I'm not trying to be contrary here, but just trying to understand this further. Now getting back to Outlook's benefit of being able to use color, which is a good advantage -- are there any other benefits of this? I too would like the option of using color (can I presume you could use any option in your toolbar? -- size, font, bold, etc.?), but to me I don't think it would outweigh the advantage I have when I can compose a message right on the website page. If I write a reply to a post that I need to refer back to several times, I need to Minimize the page that I'm writing to see the original message underneath. Then, I need to minimize that message to be able to retrieve my own Minimized message to continue writing, and so on, back and forth if the content of the first message is lengthy (or varied) enough to make it difficult to remember it all (unless I print it out). When I compose my message on the website, I just need to scroll down to the original poster's message that's underneath mine to continually refer back to it, if I need to -- it's always there in plain view -- no minimizing-- maximizing (normalizing) games. Maybe there's something I'm missing here, I don't know. Ray --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Steve Szabo" <steve@...> wrote: > > Ray, > > I was not referring to Lenny in my post, but myself. However, I know > that Lenny also uses Outlook, and I am sure that many others do as well. > When I look at messages on line, there is no tag in the subject line. > This tag "[AquaticLife]" is seen by those who have the mail delivered to > their mail server and then read it with a mail reader such as Outlook. I > note now that this tag does not show online, even if the message is sent > as a reply from outside the web site. It appears that Yahoo! strips it > out. Now, for those of us not working within the online environment > within the web site of the list, the original message will appear with a > subject line looking like this: > [AquaticLife] Dr. Tims > The original message's subject shown in the web site appears like this: > Dr. Tims > Thus far, no problem, a thread has not developed. > > Now, if I was to reply to this message from my Outlook, the subject that > comes back is: > RE: [AquaticLife] Dr. Tims > While you would see it on the web site as: > Re: Dr. Tims > Outlook will sort just fine with the first format shown here, the " RE: > [AquaticLife] Dr. Tims" just fine because it will ignore the RE: at the > beginning. > > The problem occurs when someone relies on the web site. The subject > online will still look normal to you, but what shows up in the Inbox of > a reader is very different. Online, you see: > Re: Dr. Tims > And you can sort the thread by that with no problem. They call it > "group by topic" at Yahoo!. However, what I would see is: > RE: [AquaticLife] Re: Dr. Tims > And therein is the problem. For the sort, the first RE: is ignored, but > the second is not, therefore the message gets sorted on the "Re:" and > not the "Dr.". This puts that portion of the thread into another > grouping of messages, all that have that subject. And, it can even get > worse. Sometimes there are multiple "Re:"s in the subject line after > the tag. This then throws the message into another sort group. > > So, for us who work offline, there is a problem. We will not see all the > messages in a thread. We will read what is there, and reply to that. I > am aware of this, but do not always have the time to look through the > sort to see if there are any other pieces to the thread, thanks to > Yahoo!'s crazy way of handling the messages going out since they can be > widely separated from each other. > > What can be done about this? Forcing everyone to use a mail reader is > not feasible. Yahoo! will not allow it, they want people to read the ads > presented that help pay for the service. However, these tags are not > mandatory. It may be time for those who run this list to take a look at > the use of the tags and whether the use of the tag here should be > continued. Outlook gives me the option of using color to show messages > from a particular source, but not all readers do this. Perhaps a poll on > the tag would give some useful information to those who would make the > determination. There are lists here that do not have the tag in their > subject line. > > \\Steve// > > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] > On Behalf Of Raymond Wetzel > Sent: Saturday, June 20, 2009 6:46 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Dr. Tims > > \\Steve//, I'm trying to follow you on this, but right off the bat I > don't understand why you are bringing up "Outlook". Are you saying that > Lenny uses Outlook whereas most others don't? -- and that, that's where > the problem lies? I always reply by going to our group web site and > enter my messages from there after opening the poster's message (which > I'm doing right now with yours). Are you saying that some people never > see my messages on this Group? > > Since this is not the first occurance by far of redundant information > being posted numerous times over the years, after I've already posted > identical information, I've often wondered why anyone who would read my > info and continue to post the same information, seemingly as if ignoring > my posts -- or so it has appeared. I never understood the purpose for > doing so, but if they've never seen the initial post then they would > have no way of even knowing it existed, which would explain this > behavior. I'm still at a loss though, to figure out how Yahoogroups can > allow for messaging by some members, that cannot be seen by other > members, if that's what you're saying. > > I presume by "Tag" you mean Subject Line (???), I'm not quite sure, but > assume so. Here's where I don't understand why a message isn't being > read. Doesn't our Group site name appear in the subject line regardless > of where it's placed? -- I think I understand you to say it may be in > the beginning or at the end, but even so, with a short subject name, it > should still be viewable, or at least I would think so. Thanks for your > efforts in trying to explain this to me. Ray > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Steve Szabo" <steve@> wrote: > > > > Ray, > > > > The sort of messages in Outlook depends on whether the reply was > written > > online in the website, or if it was written elsewhere. The RE: is > placed > > differently--written outside the web site of the list it appears prior > > to the [Aquatic Life] tag, while written inside the list web site it > > appears after the tag.. I've read what I thought to be a thread, and > > replied, only to find out that the question has already been > adequately > > answered elsewhere in my sort, but separate from the thread I replied > > to. > > > > For those of you who do this strictly online, the tag is added when > the > > message is sent to a person's e-mail address (and what the heck are > you > > doing reading and replying to this stuff online without having the > > flexibility that answering a post offline gives you?) > > > > \\Steve// > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] > > On Behalf Of Raymond Wetzel > > Sent: Saturday, June 20, 2009 5:21 PM > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Dr. Tims > > > > Funny . . . I thought I remembered reading some of the nearly exact > same > > replies on this topic earlier this morning, somewhere around 9:30. If > I > > didn't know any better, I'd have to think that you might not read all > > your emails for this Group -- or maybe just selectively read them (<G> > > LOL ROTFL). Ray > > > > > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" > > <GoldLenny@> wrote: > > > > > > Add it to your running tank (with no fish), then wait a few hours or > > until > > > the next day and then dose the tank with plain ammonia (3 drops per > > gallon) > > > and test the tank for ammonia, nitrite, nitrate. Test again in a > few > > hours. > > > Post results. Within 12-24 hours, all of the ammonia should have > been > > > converted to nitrate. If it did, then the Dr. Tim's was not damaged > > and is > > > working. At that point, it's safe to add your fish. If you do not > > have > > > your fish yet, then keep dosing the tank daily with the plain > ammonia > > to > > > keep it "cycled" until you are ready to add the fish. > > > > > > When you took it out of the box, was it HOT or still reasonably cool > > (room > > > temperature)? If it didn't get too much over room temperature, then > > it > > > should not have been damaged. > > > > > > As far as the "dry ice was liquid", that's not possible since dry > ice > > is > > > frozen CO2 and as it "melts" it actually turns into CO2 which is a > > gas, so > > > it doesn't actually melt, it evaporates as it warms up from its > frozen > > > state. If it was one of those freezer packs like blue ice or > > something like > > > that, then that is not dry ice. If it was the blue ice type cooling > > > product, was it warm to the touch or was it still at least at room > > > temperature? > > > > > > Who did you order this from? Let other members know so they can be > > sure and > > > INFORM that company to do a better job of packing in the future. > You > > should > > > also contact them with your complaint that they did NOT use enough > > cooling > > > product and/or insulation. > > > > > > On a side note, Dr. Tim is actually a member of this group so he may > > chime > > > in himself. You can also contact him directly by going to > > > http://DrTimsAquatics.com or just emailing him at mailto:info@ and > > > let him know the details of what happened, so he can maybe provide > > > the retailer with better > > packing/shipping > > > information.. maybe putting a sticker on the box to keep cool so the > > > delivery person would know to put the package in a shady place > instead > > of > > > out in direct sunlight. > > > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles > > > referenced in above reply are listed on the > > right > > > side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, > > Month) > > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] > > On > > > Behalf Of jan1213@ > > > Sent: Saturday, June 20, 2009 7:17 AM > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > > Subject: [AquaticLife] Dr. Tims > > > > > > Dr. Tim's arrived yesterday...on my front porch in the heat...the > dry > > ice > > > was liquid...How do I know this is still good......Jan How would I > > test > > > this?

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 41174	From: Raymond Wetzel	Date: 6/21/2009
Subject: Re: O/T Outlook Configuration, \\Steve//, was: Dr. Tims

\\Steve//, Thanks for all your input, looks like you have your work cut out for you on the 'Net after you get done with your regular job. I know what you mean about those Forums -- they can be extremely interesting (I belong to some), as they specialize in a certain area of fish (or other) keeping. I just can't seem to find the time to participate on them the way I might like to do. Used to post advice on there too, but you really have to wonder sometimes if these "specialists" appreciate it; I've discontinue posting on those Forums for the most part also because it's just too time-consuming. That time could be better spent in my hatchery. As it is, I'm finding that I'm writing about fish on the Groups as much or more now than I use to do when I was editor of a North Jersey fish society magazine back in the 1960's, but I'm not complaining as I enjoy it. That time could be put to better use writing articles for today's national magazines though, which I keep telling myself I should get to -- but never have the time for -- although the volume of writing I do sometimes on the web amounts to the work that might go in to these articles. Yeah, there's just so many hours in a day; maybe one of these days I'll surprise Ted Coletti with an article for TFH that I keep promising him. I'm glad this is a weekend, to allow you the time to get into these things with more detail. Glad to see also, that your methods in attacking the volumes on these websites works out for you. What you're describing would be too much of a workload for me (just couldn't keep up with it), but the way I receive mail and visually "sort" it seems to work best for me. My main problem is in typing & composing replies, which I find very time consuming. I may have increased my speed from 10 words per minute to 12 (LOL), and that's my downfall. Ray --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Steve Szabo" <steve@...> wrote: > > Ray, > > There are time constraints I mentioned earlier. When I get home in the > evening, having already worked a 10-14 hour day, I have about 2 hours to > go through the +/-200 messages waiting. A lot of the message I get are > not easy reads, jokes and stuff like that, but do take some time to read > since they cover topics like networking (computer), other things > computer in a technical sense, certain legal topics, though I am not a > lawyer, news (usually an easy read) and fish/aquarium topics. There are > a good number of one off messages, i.e. those that are not threaded > because they are newsletters and other non-list correspondence. There > will be between 500-800 messages in my Inbox at any given time. There is > some prioritizing, I'll go through my Inbox to start, sorted by receipt, > and I'll quickly remove the Freecycle stuff, unless there is something > I'm interested in, marking whole groups of them as read and deleting in > one fell swoop. While I am doing that, I am also looking for messages > that have direct bearing on one of my businesses so I can handle them > ASAP. Then I'll go through messages I have previously marked to be > handled by that day, and dispose of them. Then, I'll go through the > remaining new messages starting with the oldest one (as received) and > work my way through the list. If any of these messages are list > messages, I'll sort on subject to find if there is a thread, so I can > read the whole thread to determine if it is worth writing a reply. I am > aware, as you have seen, of how Yahoo! manages their list messages with > subject tags, and I will give a quick scroll to see if I see any others, > but if they are not close in the sort, more than two or three scroll > wheel turns, I go no further, and write a reply if I feel that one is > needed. I'll then go down the threads until I hit a single message and > them put the sort back to receipt, now working may way down the list > with each message read being received earlier than the one previously > read, unless or until I hit the earliest one, at which time I go back to > reading the way I started, until I hit the next threaded message. This > allows me to spend only 2-3 hours reading messages, writing replies and > writing new messages. One may notice that I tend to be more verbose on > the weekends and holidays, simply because I have more time. > > If I have to refer back to an earlier message, it is easy enough to do > so. If I need to research, my browser is always open, and a quick > bookmark or search usually enables me to find the answer I need. > > Over the last several years there has been a big drive to improve the > "stickiness" of a site, in other words to keep people at the site, > rather than having them do a hit and run. This is especially true of > sites that depend on advertising revenue for a big chunk of their > income, and it is a big selling point to advertisers that they court for > a site to say that the average visitor stays for 22 minutes for each > visit to the site. It increase the chance there will be a click on an > ad, on purpose or inadvertently. There are some sites out there with > very good "forums" as they call them, where the only way you can get and > send messages is to visit the site and read online and/or post online. > There is no mail functionality to them. I very seldom visit those sites, > unless I am looking for something specifically, and then it is only to > take rather than to participate. I just don't have the time, and I know > I am not the only one. I just don't have the time to hop from forum to > forum each night looking to see what is available. And, before someone > like Lenny says I should get a faster connection, I already have a > connection that can receive information than a lot of these sites will > send it to me, with 20mbps down. > > Back to Yahoo!. It simply is not efficient for me to work online with > Yahoo! and the way it handles replies with tags in the subject to those > who receive mails sent to outside destinations is deplorable. However, > it is less disruptive to my workflow than using the web interface. > > > > \\Steve// > > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] > On Behalf Of Raymond Wetzel > Sent: Sunday, June 21, 2009 7:49 AM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: O/T Outlook Configuration, \\Steve//, was: > Dr. Tims > > Hi \\Steve//, I appreciate the time it took you to explain all this -- > especially in a way that makes it absolutely clear to me (I think <g>). > I never realized there could be that much difference in the way subject > lines are received. Still, as the computer operator of the machine that > uses Outlook, you would be aware of this difference in the Subject line > and should know what to expect. And, knowing what to expect, once you > see a member posting a new question -- with it's particular, new Subject > heading/name -- and after realizing that it's coming through the > "Aquatic Life" Group -- wouldn't any other same-worded Subject headings > alert you to the fact that these additional messages are threads to the > original poster's message -- regardless of the position or presence of > "Re:" or the presence or absence of the tag "AquaticLife"? After all, > you chose to use Outlook, so you should know what to look for and what > to expect. Any change in the Subject line being sent by various members > should not be a surprise to you -- and please know I'm not trying to be > contrary here, but just trying to understand this further. > > Now getting back to Outlook's benefit of being able to use color, which > is a good advantage -- are there any other benefits of this? I too > would like the option of using color (can I presume you could use any > option in your toolbar? -- size, font, bold, etc.?), but to me I don't > think it would outweigh the advantage I have when I can compose a > message right on the website page. If I write a reply to a post that I > need to refer back to several times, I need to Minimize the page that > I'm writing to see the original message underneath. Then, I need to > minimize that message to be able to retrieve my own Minimized message to > continue writing, and so on, back and forth if the content of the first > message is lengthy (or varied) enough to make it difficult to remember > it all (unless I print it out). When I compose my message on the > website, I just need to scroll down to the original poster's message > that's underneath mine to continually refer back to it, if I need to -- > it's always there in plain view -- no minimizing-- maximizing > (normalizing) games. Maybe there's something I'm missing here, I don't > know. Ray > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Steve Szabo" <steve@> wrote: > > > > Ray, > > > > I was not referring to Lenny in my post, but myself. However, I know > > that Lenny also uses Outlook, and I am sure that many others do as > well. > > When I look at messages on line, there is no tag in the subject line. > > This tag "[AquaticLife]" is seen by those who have the mail delivered > to > > their mail server and then read it with a mail reader such as Outlook. > I > > note now that this tag does not show online, even if the message is > sent > > as a reply from outside the web site. It appears that Yahoo! strips it > > out. Now, for those of us not working within the online environment > > within the web site of the list, the original message will appear with > a > > subject line looking like this: > > [AquaticLife] Dr. Tims > > The original message's subject shown in the web site appears like > this: > > Dr. Tims > > Thus far, no problem, a thread has not developed. > > > > Now, if I was to reply to this message from my Outlook, the subject > that > > comes back is: > > RE: [AquaticLife] Dr. Tims > > While you would see it on the web site as: > > Re: Dr. Tims > > Outlook will sort just fine with the first format shown here, the " > RE: > > [AquaticLife] Dr. Tims" just fine because it will ignore the RE: at > the > > beginning. > > > > The problem occurs when someone relies on the web site. The subject > > online will still look normal to you, but what shows up in the Inbox > of > > a reader is very different. Online, you see: > > Re: Dr. Tims > > And you can sort the thread by that with no problem. They call it > > "group by topic" at Yahoo!. However, what I would see is: > > RE: [AquaticLife] Re: Dr. Tims > > And therein is the problem. For the sort, the first RE: is ignored, > but > > the second is not, therefore the message gets sorted on the "Re:" and > > not the "Dr.". This puts that portion of the thread into another > > grouping of messages, all that have that subject. And, it can even get > > worse. Sometimes there are multiple "Re:"s in the subject line after > > the tag. This then throws the message into another sort group. > > > > So, for us who work offline, there is a problem. We will not see all > the > > messages in a thread. We will read what is there, and reply to that. I > > am aware of this, but do not always have the time to look through the > > sort to see if there are any other pieces to the thread, thanks to > > Yahoo!'s crazy way of handling the messages going out since they can > be > > widely separated from each other. > > > > What can be done about this? Forcing everyone to use a mail reader is > > not feasible. Yahoo! will not allow it, they want people to read the > ads > > presented that help pay for the service. However, these tags are not > > mandatory. It may be time for those who run this list to take a look > at > > the use of the tags and whether the use of the tag here should be > > continued. Outlook gives me the option of using color to show messages > > from a particular source, but not all readers do this. Perhaps a poll > on > > the tag would give some useful information to those who would make the > > determination. There are lists here that do not have the tag in their > > subject line. > > > > \\Steve// > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] > > On Behalf Of Raymond Wetzel > > Sent: Saturday, June 20, 2009 6:46 PM > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Dr. Tims > > > > \\Steve//, I'm trying to follow you on this, but right off the bat I > > don't understand why you are bringing up "Outlook". Are you saying > that > > Lenny uses Outlook whereas most others don't? -- and that, that's > where > > the problem lies? I always reply by going to our group web site and > > enter my messages from there after opening the poster's message (which > > I'm doing right now with yours). Are you saying that some people > never > > see my messages on this Group? > > > > Since this is not the first occurance by far of redundant information > > being posted numerous times over the years, after I've already posted > > identical information, I've often wondered why anyone who would read > my > > info and continue to post the same information, seemingly as if > ignoring > > my posts -- or so it has appeared. I never understood the purpose for > > doing so, but if they've never seen the initial post then they would > > have no way of even knowing it existed, which would explain this > > behavior. I'm still at a loss though, to figure out how Yahoogroups > can > > allow for messaging by some members, that cannot be seen by other > > members, if that's what you're saying. > > > > I presume by "Tag" you mean Subject Line (???), I'm not quite sure, > but > > assume so. Here's where I don't understand why a message isn't being > > read. Doesn't our Group site name appear in the subject line > regardless > > of where it's placed? -- I think I understand you to say it may be in > > the beginning or at the end, but even so, with a short subject name, > it > > should still be viewable, or at least I would think so. Thanks for > your > > efforts in trying to explain this to me. Ray > > > > > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Steve Szabo" <steve@> wrote: > > > > > > Ray, > > > > > > The sort of messages in Outlook depends on whether the reply was > > written > > > online in the website, or if it was written elsewhere. The RE: is > > placed > > > differently--written outside the web site of the list it appears > prior > > > to the [Aquatic Life] tag, while written inside the list web site it > > > appears after the tag.. I've read what I thought to be a thread, and > > > replied, only to find out that the question has already been > > adequately > > > answered elsewhere in my sort, but separate from the thread I > replied > > > to. > > > > > > For those of you who do this strictly online, the tag is added when > > the > > > message is sent to a person's e-mail address (and what the heck are > > you > > > doing reading and replying to this stuff online without having the > > > flexibility that answering a post offline gives you?) > > > > > > \\Steve// > > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] > > > On Behalf Of Raymond Wetzel > > > Sent: Saturday, June 20, 2009 5:21 PM > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Dr. Tims > > > > > > Funny . . . I thought I remembered reading some of the nearly exact > > same > > > replies on this topic earlier this morning, somewhere around 9:30. > If > > I > > > didn't know any better, I'd have to think that you might not read > all > > > your emails for this Group -- or maybe just selectively read them > (<G> > > > LOL ROTFL). Ray > > > > > > > > > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" > > > <GoldLenny@> wrote: > > > > > > > > Add it to your running tank (with no fish), then wait a few hours > or > > > until > > > > the next day and then dose the tank with plain ammonia (3 drops > per > > > gallon) > > > > and test the tank for ammonia, nitrite, nitrate. Test again in a > > few > > > hours. > > > > Post results. Within 12-24 hours, all of the ammonia should have > > been > > > > converted to nitrate. If it did, then the Dr. Tim's was not > damaged > > > and is > > > > working. At that point, it's safe to add your fish. If you do > not > > > have > > > > your fish yet, then keep dosing the tank daily with the plain > > ammonia > > > to > > > > keep it "cycled" until you are ready to add the fish. > > > > > > > > When you took it out of the box, was it HOT or still reasonably > cool > > > (room > > > > temperature)? If it didn't get too much over room temperature, > then > > > it > > > > should not have been damaged. > > > > > > > > As far as the "dry ice was liquid", that's not possible since dry > > ice > > > is > > > > frozen CO2 and as it "melts" it actually turns into CO2 which is a > > > gas, so > > > > it doesn't actually melt, it evaporates as it warms up from its > > frozen > > > > state. If it was one of those freezer packs like blue ice or > > > something like > > > > that, then that is not dry ice. If it was the blue ice type > cooling > > > > product, was it warm to the touch or was it still at least at room > > > > temperature? > > > > > > > > Who did you order this from? Let other members know so they can > be > > > sure and > > > > INFORM that company to do a better job of packing in the future. > > You > > > should > > > > also contact them with your complaint that they did NOT use enough > > > cooling > > > > product and/or insulation. > > > > > > > > On a side note, Dr. Tim is actually a member of this group so he > may > > > chime > > > > in himself. You can also contact him directly by going to > > > > http://DrTimsAquatics.com or just emailing him at > > > > mailto:info@ and let him know the details of what > > > > happened, so he can maybe provide the retailer with better > > > packing/shipping > > > > information.. maybe putting a sticker on the box to keep cool so > the > > > > delivery person would know to put the package in a shady place > > instead > > > of > > > > out in direct sunlight. > > > > > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > > > > (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the > > > right > > > > side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, > > > Month) > > > > > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] > > > On > > > > Behalf Of jan1213@ > > > > Sent: Saturday, June 20, 2009 7:17 AM > > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > > > Subject: [AquaticLife] Dr. Tims > > > > > > > > Dr. Tim's arrived yesterday...on my front porch in the heat...the > > dry > > > ice > > > > was liquid...How do I know this is still good......Jan How would I > > > test > > > > this? > > > > > > > > > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 41175	From: Raymond Wetzel	Date: 6/21/2009
Subject: Re: O/T -- Emails: was, Dr. Tims

\\Steve//, Nope, I wouldn't have a clue -- and probably couldn't begin to guess. More power to you. That's a rough schedule that you keep. Ciao, Ray --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Steve Szabo" <steve@...> wrote: > > Ray, > > You don't even want to know the volume I get at work, then <g>. > > \\Steve// > > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] > On Behalf Of Raymond Wetzel > Sent: Sunday, June 21, 2009 8:15 AM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Dr. Tims > > \\Steve//, I hear you with receiving about 200 e-mails a day, and am > right there with you. I belong to only 5 aquarium-related groups that > generate emails -- the other aquarium groups are Forums, which you need > to go up to each time you want to participate in any manner. These > Forums send out an email only occassionally, if there is something that > needs to be announced to all the members. Then, I also belong to a > number of various other groups of interest which also send out emails > (in all, I may get up to twice the number of emails you receive). > Fortunately, as a Moderator on only four of these aquarium groups, I can > open (or delete) any of these other group emails at my discression. You > may need to open each and every one, I don't know. Still, I find it > exceptionally easy for me to just read down the list of email headings > (tags, plus subject topic) to be able to see at a glance what has come > in since the time I was last on line. It's all right there before me in > black & white and very easy to see, even to spot which messages are in > the same thread. > Thank you very much again for all your help on this topic; while I don't > need to get up at 5:30, I usually do (even earlier) -- which is why you > don't usually see much of me here in the evening -- I'm konked out by > that time. I know the limitations of the working man, though, which > fortunately is a category I'm no longer in. Later, Ray > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Steve Szabo" <steve@> wrote: > > > > Ray, > > > > When one receives approximately 200 e-mails a day, a quick scan is not > > all that feasible. And that is what I get just at home, and by the > time > > I sit in front of the computer, I am lucky to get through all of them > > before I need to go to sleep. 5:30 comes awful early in the morning > > sometimes. > > > > \\Steve// > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] > > On Behalf Of Raymond Wetzel > > Sent: Saturday, June 20, 2009 7:56 PM > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Dr. Tims > > > > I've noticed others' emails having the "Re:" in different locations at > > times, as you're saying, although I really didn't know how or why that > > occured. Still, the entire subject should be visable to anyone > scanning > > down their email list. Your only explanation as to how my early posts > > can be missed would have to occur if the emails were sorted > differently, > > as you're saying, but then I'm still confused in that if they are > sorted > > by subject -- I would think that my replies, even though sent after > the > > original post would still have to appear (with the same subject line) > in > > view of a later prospective poster regardless of where it might be > > placed in order of date (time). Still a puzzle to me, but thanks for > > trying to come up with an answer. Ray > > > > > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, Amber Berglund <amber@> wrote: > > > > > > I see what \\Steve// is saying now that I saw your recent post here. > > > > When you reply from the website it puts your Re: after the group > name > > > [AquaticLife] and before the subject of the post. When I hit reply > in > > my > > > email program it puts the Re: before the entire subject line > including > > > > > the group name. Perhaps yahoo sorts alphabetically and when the Re: > > > moves that changes how they sort the messages? Or it's how your own > > > email program sorts them. I sort by date, so the newest post is at > the > > > > > top of my email list. Perhaps Lenny sorts his differently by subject > > and > > > that is why he replied to the original poster before reading your > post > > > > > Ray? This is just my best guess, but I can see how that could change > > how > > > email programs sort the emails if it's done by subject and not date. > > > > > > Amber > > > > > > Raymond Wetzel wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > \\Steve//, I'm trying to follow you on this, but right off the bat > I > > > > > > don't understand why you are bringing up "Outlook". Are you saying > > > > > that Lenny uses Outlook whereas most others don't? -- and that, > > that's > > > > where the problem lies? I always reply by going to our group web > > site > > > > and enter my messages from there after opening the poster's > message > > > > (which I'm doing right now with yours). Are you saying that some > > > > people never see my messages on this Group? > > > > > > > > Since this is not the first occurance by far of redundant > > information > > > > being posted numerous times over the years, after I've already > > posted > > > > identical information, I've often wondered why anyone who would > read > > > > > > my info and continue to post the same information, seemingly as if > > > > > ignoring my posts -- or so it has appeared. I never understood the > > > > > purpose for doing so, but if they've never seen the initial post > > then > > > > they would have no way of even knowing it existed, which would > > explain > > > > this behavior. I'm still at a loss though, to figure out how > > > > Yahoogroups can allow for messaging by some members, that cannot > be > > > > seen by other members, if that's what you're saying. > > > > > > > > I presume by "Tag" you mean Subject Line (???), I'm not quite > sure, > > > > but assume so. Here's where I don't understand why a message isn't > > > > > being read. Doesn't our Group site name appear in the subject line > > > > > regardless of where it's placed? -- I think I understand you to > say > > it > > > > may be in the beginning or at the end, but even so, with a short > > > > subject name, it should still be viewable, or at least I would > think > > > > > > so. Thanks for your efforts in trying to explain this to me. Ray > > > > > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>, "Steve Szabo" <steve@> > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > Ray, > > > > > > > > > > The sort of messages in Outlook depends on whether the reply was > > written > > > > > online in the website, or if it was written elsewhere. The RE: > is > > placed > > > > > differently--written outside the web site of the list it appears > > prior > > > > > to the [Aquatic Life] tag, while written inside the list web > site > > it > > > > > appears after the tag.. I've read what I thought to be a thread, > > and > > > > > replied, only to find out that the question has already been > > adequately > > > > > answered elsewhere in my sort, but separate from the thread I > > replied > > > > > to. > > > > > > > > > > For those of you who do this strictly online, the tag is added > > when the > > > > > message is sent to a person's e-mail address (and what the heck > > are you > > > > > doing reading and replying to this stuff online without having > the > > > > > flexibility that answering a post offline gives you?) > > > > > > > > > > \\Steve// > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] > > > > > On Behalf Of Raymond Wetzel > > > > > Sent: Saturday, June 20, 2009 5:21 PM > > > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Dr. Tims > > > > > > > > > > Funny . . . I thought I remembered reading some of the nearly > > exact same > > > > > replies on this topic earlier this morning, somewhere around > 9:30. > > If I > > > > > didn't know any better, I'd have to think that you might not > read > > all > > > > > your emails for this Group -- or maybe just selectively read > them > > (<G> > > > > > LOL ROTFL). Ray > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>, "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" > > > > > <GoldLenny@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > Add it to your running tank (with no fish), then wait a few > > hours or > > > > > until > > > > > > the next day and then dose the tank with plain ammonia (3 > drops > > per > > > > > gallon) > > > > > > and test the tank for ammonia, nitrite, nitrate. Test again in > a > > few > > > > > hours. > > > > > > Post results. Within 12-24 hours, all of the ammonia should > have > > been > > > > > > converted to nitrate. If it did, then the Dr. Tim's was not > > damaged > > > > > and is > > > > > > working. At that point, it's safe to add your fish. If you do > > not > > > > > have > > > > > > your fish yet, then keep dosing the tank daily with the plain > > ammonia > > > > > to > > > > > > keep it "cycled" until you are ready to add the fish. > > > > > > > > > > > > When you took it out of the box, was it HOT or still > reasonably > > cool > > > > > (room > > > > > > temperature)? If it didn't get too much over room temperature, > > then > > > > > it > > > > > > should not have been damaged. > > > > > > > > > > > > As far as the "dry ice was liquid", that's not possible since > > dry ice > > > > > is > > > > > > frozen CO2 and as it "melts" it actually turns into CO2 which > is > > a > > > > > gas, so > > > > > > it doesn't actually melt, it evaporates as it warms up from > its > > frozen > > > > > > state. If it was one of those freezer packs like blue ice or > > > > > something like > > > > > > that, then that is not dry ice. If it was the blue ice type > > cooling > > > > > > product, was it warm to the touch or was it still at least at > > room > > > > > > temperature? > > > > > > > > > > > > Who did you order this from? Let other members know so they > can > > be > > > > > sure and > > > > > > INFORM that company to do a better job of packing in the > future. > > You > > > > > should > > > > > > also contact them with your complaint that they did NOT use > > enough > > > > > cooling > > > > > > product and/or insulation. > > > > > > > > > > > > On a side note, Dr. Tim is actually a member of this group so > he > > may > > > > > chime > > > > > > in himself. You can also contact him directly by going to > > > > > > http://DrTimsAquatics.com <http://DrTimsAquatics.com> or just > > > > emailing him at > > > > > > mailto:info@ and let him know the details of what > > > > > > happened, so he can maybe provide the retailer with better > > > > > packing/shipping > > > > > > information.. maybe putting a sticker on the box to keep cool > so > > the > > > > > > delivery person would know to put the package in a shady place > > instead > > > > > of > > > > > > out in direct sunlight. > > > > > > > > > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > > > > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > > > > (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on > > the > > > > > right > > > > > > side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by > > Year, > > > > > Month) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > > > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] > > > > > On > > > > > > Behalf Of jan1213@ > > > > > > Sent: Saturday, June 20, 2009 7:17 AM > > > > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > Subject: [AquaticLife] Dr. Tims > > > > > > > > > > > > Dr. Tim's arrived yesterday...on my front porch in the > > heat...the dry > > > > > ice > > > > > > was liquid...How do I know this is still good......Jan How > would > > I > > > > > test > > > > > > this? > > > > > > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 41176	From: bill 1433	Date: 6/21/2009
Subject: Re: Ray Fan Club

Like?// You know your a "Redneck" if you go to your family reunion to met girls? OR If you send all day staring at an Orange Juice Carton because it says "Concentrate" on it! ol' bill <g> --- On Sun, 6/21/09, Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@...> wrote: > From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@...> > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: Ray Fan Club > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Date: Sunday, June 21, 2009, 11:21 AM > YEEEEE HAWWWWWWWWWWWW!!!! > > As Jeff Foxworthy would say, "You know you're a redneck > when you have the > Rebel flag painted on the top of your car!" > > Of course, I like many of his other Redneck jokes much > better. > > LOL > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed > on the right > side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives > by Year, Month) > > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] > On > Behalf Of Raymond Wetzel > Sent: Sunday, June 21, 2009 7:46 AM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Ray Fan Club > > I'll bet Lenny would like to have one of these for when the > cops are chasing > him.  This would have come in real handy for the Dukes > (of Hazard) when > Roscoe P. Coaltrain was chasing them.  Just great to > haul moonshine in.  I > can see Lenny with one if these cars, with the Union Jack > painted on top, of > course!  ROTFLYAOTIME,  Ray > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, > "Steve Szabo" <steve@...> wrote: > > > > Lenny, > > > > Of course we have flying cars. Here is one, there are > many others out > there. > > http://auto.howstuffworks.com/flying-car2.htm > > > > BTW, you can get up to 3 meg out of DSL. You just need > to be close enough > to the central office offering such speeds. > > > > > > \\Steve// > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] > > > On Behalf Of Lenny V. aka GoldLenny > > Sent: Saturday, June 20, 2009 11:51 PM > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Ray Fan Club > > > > And now we're not happy with hi-speed/broadband > speeds. LOL > > > > I just did a little homework. > > > > A modern dial-up modem is rated at top download speed > of 56kbit/s > > (56,000 > > bits/second) which is nearly 50 times faster than a > 1200 baud modem of > > years gone by. > > > > Hi-speed is considered anything over 256kbit/s > (256,000 bits/second) > > download speed or about five times faster than dial > up. > > > > The FCC's definition for "Broadband" is download speed > over 768kbit/s > > (768,000 bits/second) which is about 15 times faster > than dial-up and > > 750 times faster than one of those "historic" 1200 > baud modems. > > > > DSL lines have speeds up to around 1.5Mbps (1,500,000+ > bits/second) > > with Cable modems reaching 2-3Mbps speeds (2,000,000+ > to 3,000,000+ > > bits/second) and even double those speeds if folks pay > for it.  These > > DSL and Cable Modem speeds are 250 to nearly 600 times > faster than > > dial up modems and over 15,000 times faster than one > of them old 1200 > > baud modems.  Of course, you can get broadband at > much higher speeds. > > > > And now the BIG question.... why don't we have flying > cars yet?  The > > Jetsons, an authority on the future, clearly showed > computer automated > > homes, robots and flying cars.  We have computers > and automated homes, > > we have robots... but we're not even close to a flying > car yet.  If > > anything, we're regressing in automotive speed, not > progressing as > > with most other technologies. > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to > any articles > > referenced in above reply are listed on the right > side, alphabetically > > under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) > > > > ------------------------------------ > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when > replying, Thank You. > ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> > ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> > PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is > NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of > the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new > subject (was re: old subject)" <- > <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. > , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. > > If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of > unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by > clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the home page.  > > Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com > to receive the digest, which includes up to 25 posts at a > time in a single email > > Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com > for the No E-Mail option where you will still be able to > read messages on the group and post replies. > > Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com > to receive individual e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links > > >     mailto:AquaticLife-fullfeatured@yahoogroups.com > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 41177	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 6/21/2009
Subject: Re: Happy Father's Day - Redneck Style (was: Re: Ray Fan Club)

"Meet girls"? We always go to family reunions to pick up chicks... not just meet them! And weddings and funerals too! LOL Which reminds me.... Happy Fathers Day to all the Dads out there... and to their Redneck Brothers, Cousins and Uncles too... you know, you never can be sure. Now let me hear you say, YEEEEE HAWWWWWWWWW! LOL Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of bill 1433 Sent: Sunday, June 21, 2009 11:30 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: Ray Fan Club Like?// You know your a "Redneck" if you go to your family reunion to meet girls? OR If you spend all day staring at an Orange Juice Carton because it says "Concentrate" on it! ol' bill <g> --- On Sun, 6/21/09, Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@...> wrote: > From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@...> > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: Ray Fan Club > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Date: Sunday, June 21, 2009, 11:21 AM > YEEEEE HAWWWWWWWWWWWW!!!! > > As Jeff Foxworthy would say, "You know you're a redneck when you have > the Rebel flag painted on the top of your car!" > > Of course, I like many of his other Redneck jokes much better. > > LOL > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles > referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically > under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) > > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] > On > Behalf Of Raymond Wetzel > Sent: Sunday, June 21, 2009 7:46 AM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Ray Fan Club > > I'll bet Lenny would like to have one of these for when the > cops are chasing > him.  This would have come in real handy for the Dukes > (of Hazard) when > Roscoe P. Coaltrain was chasing them.  Just great to > haul moonshine in.  I > can see Lenny with one if these cars, with the Union Jack > painted on top, of > course!  ROTFLYAOTIME,  Ray > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, > "Steve Szabo" <steve@...> wrote: > > > > Lenny, > > > > Of course we have flying cars. Here is one, there are > many others out > there. > > http://auto.howstuffworks.com/flying-car2.htm > > > > BTW, you can get up to 3 meg out of DSL. You just need > to be close enough > to the central office offering such speeds. > > > > > > \\Steve// > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] > > > On Behalf Of Lenny V. aka GoldLenny > > Sent: Saturday, June 20, 2009 11:51 PM > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Ray Fan Club > > > > And now we're not happy with hi-speed/broadband > speeds. LOL > > > > I just did a little homework. > > > > A modern dial-up modem is rated at top download speed > of 56kbit/s > > (56,000 > > bits/second) which is nearly 50 times faster than a > 1200 baud modem of > > years gone by. > > > > Hi-speed is considered anything over 256kbit/s > (256,000 bits/second) > > download speed or about five times faster than dial > up. > > > > The FCC's definition for "Broadband" is download speed > over 768kbit/s > > (768,000 bits/second) which is about 15 times faster > than dial-up and > > 750 times faster than one of those "historic" 1200 > baud modems. > > > > DSL lines have speeds up to around 1.5Mbps (1,500,000+ > bits/second) > > with Cable modems reaching 2-3Mbps speeds (2,000,000+ > to 3,000,000+ > > bits/second) and even double those speeds if folks pay > for it.  These > > DSL and Cable Modem speeds are 250 to nearly 600 times > faster than > > dial up modems and over 15,000 times faster than one > of them old 1200 > > baud modems.  Of course, you can get broadband at > much higher speeds. > > > > And now the BIG question.... why don't we have flying > cars yet?  The > > Jetsons, an authority on the future, clearly showed > computer automated > > homes, robots and flying cars.  We have computers > and automated homes, > > we have robots... but we're not even close to a flying > car yet.  If > > anything, we're regressing in automotive speed, not > progressing as > > with most other technologies. > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to > any articles > > referenced in above reply are listed on the right > side, alphabetically > > under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month)

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 41178	From: Raymond Wetzel	Date: 6/21/2009
Subject: Re: O/T Outlook Configuration, \\Steve//, was: Dr. Tims

Yep, You KNOW I've had my 'puter freeze up right when I'm about to hit (or had hit) Send -- more times than you care to know. I occassionally (but too rarely) get to save it if I can get to, and manage to activate Send Later. Then at least I can go into Mail Waiting To Be Sent later, but it's not too often. It's been suggested to me that I type out my messages on Outlook, but my skills are that limited that I wouldn't know how to go about it. This is one of the drawbacks of being an old fogey <g>, and I'm not about to take classes for it. About the ONLY computer I knew about when I was going to school was the somewhat less-than-portable block long computer that NORAD had in the Pentagon (was that in the early '50's? -- or maybe somewhat later). Maybe it was in the mid '40's if it was use to make the atom bombs(?). Does look like it would strengthen our position when two very similar posts are received by a newcommer. Otherwise, it might just look repetitive, seeming to have no real purpose as it's already been posted. But I can understand how you wouldn't see it if you're not looking for it, just replying to the original. Ray --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@...> wrote: > > And then there is always the PROBLEM or threat, when typing a long reply in > an online forum and you hit the send button and the dang website freezes, or > due to Adobe Flash Ads, IE freezes up, or worse case scenario, your computer > freezes up and you lose your LONG REPLY. At least with Outlook, as I'm > typing a long reply, I have Outlook set to constantly save the reply as a > Draft so even if something should happen to cause my computer to freeze up, > I do not lose my work. I also this auto-draft-saving feature set up on > MS-Word, my blogs and most other programs where I might type long > letters/posts/replies. Auto-draft-saving is a God send, after having lost > stuff in the past. Gmail's web interface has the auto-draft-saving feature > as do most of the web interfaces of blogging sites, including my own. It's > a shame that Yahoo Groups does not have this feature. I know this has > happened to you in the past, as it has with me also, which is why I choose > to use Outlook to do my replying... especially since I tend to be > long-winded. Of course, others may say I'm just full of wind. LOL > > I guess I could start doing the Subject line sorting but I think that many > folks appreciate someone "seconding" a post, whether it just be "I agree > with _______" or by intentionally or inadvertently typing a similar reply > after the first reply was already posted. This is even more true if the OP > (Original Poster) is new and does not know the person replying and whether > their reply is completely accurate. At least if they see two or more > replies with similar information, they'll feel more comfortable relying on > said replies. > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right > side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) > > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On > Behalf Of Steve Szabo > Sent: Sunday, June 21, 2009 9:03 AM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: O/T Outlook Configuration, \\Steve//, was: > Dr. Tims > > Ray, > > There are time constraints I mentioned earlier. When I get home in the > evening, having already worked a 10-14 hour day, I have about 2 hours to go > through the +/-200 messages waiting. A lot of the message I get are not easy > reads, jokes and stuff like that, but do take some time to read since they > cover topics like networking (computer), other things computer in a > technical sense, certain legal topics, though I am not a lawyer, news > (usually an easy read) and fish/aquarium topics. There are a good number of > one off messages, i.e. those that are not threaded because they are > newsletters and other non-list correspondence. There will be between 500-800 > messages in my Inbox at any given time. There is some prioritizing, I'll go > through my Inbox to start, sorted by receipt, and I'll quickly remove the > Freecycle stuff, unless there is something I'm interested in, marking whole > groups of them as read and deleting in one fell swoop. While I am doing > that, I am also looking for messages that have direct bearing on one of my > businesses so I can handle them ASAP. Then I'll go through messages I have > previously marked to be handled by that day, and dispose of them. Then, I'll > go through the remaining new messages starting with the oldest one (as > received) and work my way through the list. If any of these messages are > list messages, I'll sort on subject to find if there is a thread, so I can > read the whole thread to determine if it is worth writing a reply. I am > aware, as you have seen, of how Yahoo! manages their list messages with > subject tags, and I will give a quick scroll to see if I see any others, but > if they are not close in the sort, more than two or three scroll wheel > turns, I go no further, and write a reply if I feel that one is needed. I'll > then go down the threads until I hit a single message and them put the sort > back to receipt, now working may way down the list with each message read > being received earlier than the one previously read, unless or until I hit > the earliest one, at which time I go back to reading the way I started, > until I hit the next threaded message. This allows me to spend only 2-3 > hours reading messages, writing replies and writing new messages. One may > notice that I tend to be more verbose on the weekends and holidays, simply > because I have more time. > > If I have to refer back to an earlier message, it is easy enough to do so. > If I need to research, my browser is always open, and a quick bookmark or > search usually enables me to find the answer I need. > > Over the last several years there has been a big drive to improve the > "stickiness" of a site, in other words to keep people at the site, rather > than having them do a hit and run. This is especially true of sites that > depend on advertising revenue for a big chunk of their income, and it is a > big selling point to advertisers that they court for a site to say that the > average visitor stays for 22 minutes for each visit to the site. It increase > the chance there will be a click on an ad, on purpose or inadvertently. > There are some sites out there with very good "forums" as they call them, > where the only way you can get and send messages is to visit the site and > read online and/or post online. > There is no mail functionality to them. I very seldom visit those sites, > unless I am looking for something specifically, and then it is only to take > rather than to participate. I just don't have the time, and I know I am not > the only one. I just don't have the time to hop from forum to forum each > night looking to see what is available. And, before someone like Lenny says > I should get a faster connection, I already have a connection that can > receive information than a lot of these sites will send it to me, with > 20mbps down. > > Back to Yahoo!. It simply is not efficient for me to work online with Yahoo! > and the way it handles replies with tags in the subject to those who receive > mails sent to outside destinations is deplorable. However, it is less > disruptive to my workflow than using the web interface. > > > > \\Steve// > > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] > On Behalf Of Raymond Wetzel > Sent: Sunday, June 21, 2009 7:49 AM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: O/T Outlook Configuration, \\Steve//, was: > Dr. Tims > > Hi \\Steve//, I appreciate the time it took you to explain all this -- > especially in a way that makes it absolutely clear to me (I think <g>). > I never realized there could be that much difference in the way subject > lines are received. Still, as the computer operator of the machine that > uses Outlook, you would be aware of this difference in the Subject line and > should know what to expect. And, knowing what to expect, once you see a > member posting a new question -- with it's particular, new Subject > heading/name -- and after realizing that it's coming through the "Aquatic > Life" Group -- wouldn't any other same-worded Subject headings alert you to > the fact that these additional messages are threads to the original poster's > message -- regardless of the position or presence of "Re:" or the presence > or absence of the tag "AquaticLife"? After all, you chose to use Outlook, > so you should know what to look for and what to expect. Any change in the > Subject line being sent by various members should not be a surprise to you > -- and please know I'm not trying to be contrary here, but just trying to > understand this further. > > Now getting back to Outlook's benefit of being able to use color, which is a > good advantage -- are there any other benefits of this? I too would like > the option of using color (can I presume you could use any option in your > toolbar? -- size, font, bold, etc.?), but to me I don't think it would > outweigh the advantage I have when I can compose a message right on the > website page. If I write a reply to a post that I need to refer back to > several times, I need to Minimize the page that I'm writing to see the > original message underneath. Then, I need to minimize that message to be > able to retrieve my own Minimized message to continue writing, and so on, > back and forth if the content of the first message is lengthy (or varied) > enough to make it difficult to remember it all (unless I print it out). > When I compose my message on the website, I just need to scroll down to the > original poster's message that's underneath mine to continually refer back > to it, if I need to -- it's always there in plain view -- no minimizing-- > maximizing > (normalizing) games. Maybe there's something I'm missing here, I don't > know. Ray > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Steve Szabo" <steve@> wrote: > > > > Ray, > > > > I was not referring to Lenny in my post, but myself. However, I know > > that Lenny also uses Outlook, and I am sure that many others do as > well. > > When I look at messages on line, there is no tag in the subject line. > > This tag "[AquaticLife]" is seen by those who have the mail delivered > to > > their mail server and then read it with a mail reader such as Outlook. > I > > note now that this tag does not show online, even if the message is > sent > > as a reply from outside the web site. It appears that Yahoo! strips it > > out. Now, for those of us not working within the online environment > > within the web site of the list, the original message will appear with > a > > subject line looking like this: > > [AquaticLife] Dr. Tims > > The original message's subject shown in the web site appears like > this: > > Dr. Tims > > Thus far, no problem, a thread has not developed. > > > > Now, if I was to reply to this message from my Outlook, the subject > that > > comes back is: > > RE: [AquaticLife] Dr. Tims > > While you would see it on the web site as: > > Re: Dr. Tims > > Outlook will sort just fine with the first format shown here, the " > RE: > > [AquaticLife] Dr. Tims" just fine because it will ignore the RE: at > the > > beginning. > > > > The problem occurs when someone relies on the web site. The subject > > online will still look normal to you, but what shows up in the Inbox > of > > a reader is very different. Online, you see: > > Re: Dr. Tims > > And you can sort the thread by that with no problem. They call it > > "group by topic" at Yahoo!. However, what I would see is: > > RE: [AquaticLife] Re: Dr. Tims > > And therein is the problem. For the sort, the first RE: is ignored, > but > > the second is not, therefore the message gets sorted on the "Re:" and > > not the "Dr.". This puts that portion of the thread into another > > grouping of messages, all that have that subject. And, it can even get > > worse. Sometimes there are multiple "Re:"s in the subject line after > > the tag. This then throws the message into another sort group. > > > > So, for us who work offline, there is a problem. We will not see all > the > > messages in a thread. We will read what is there, and reply to that. I > > am aware of this, but do not always have the time to look through the > > sort to see if there are any other pieces to the thread, thanks to > > Yahoo!'s crazy way of handling the messages going out since they can > be > > widely separated from each other. > > > > What can be done about this? Forcing everyone to use a mail reader is > > not feasible. Yahoo! will not allow it, they want people to read the > ads > > presented that help pay for the service. However, these tags are not > > mandatory. It may be time for those who run this list to take a look > at > > the use of the tags and whether the use of the tag here should be > > continued. Outlook gives me the option of using color to show messages > > from a particular source, but not all readers do this. Perhaps a poll > on > > the tag would give some useful information to those who would make the > > determination. There are lists here that do not have the tag in their > > subject line. > > > > \\Steve// > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] > > On Behalf Of Raymond Wetzel > > Sent: Saturday, June 20, 2009 6:46 PM > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Dr. Tims > > > > \\Steve//, I'm trying to follow you on this, but right off the bat I > > don't understand why you are bringing up "Outlook". Are you saying > that > > Lenny uses Outlook whereas most others don't? -- and that, that's > where > > the problem lies? I always reply by going to our group web site and > > enter my messages from there after opening the poster's message (which > > I'm doing right now with yours). Are you saying that some people > never > > see my messages on this Group? > > > > Since this is not the first occurance by far of redundant information > > being posted numerous times over the years, after I've already posted > > identical information, I've often wondered why anyone who would read > my > > info and continue to post the same information, seemingly as if > ignoring > > my posts -- or so it has appeared. I never understood the purpose for > > doing so, but if they've never seen the initial post then they would > > have no way of even knowing it existed, which would explain this > > behavior. I'm still at a loss though, to figure out how Yahoogroups > can > > allow for messaging by some members, that cannot be seen by other > > members, if that's what you're saying. > > > > I presume by "Tag" you mean Subject Line (???), I'm not quite sure, > but > > assume so. Here's where I don't understand why a message isn't being > > read. Doesn't our Group site name appear in the subject line > regardless > > of where it's placed? -- I think I understand you to say it may be in > > the beginning or at the end, but even so, with a short subject name, > it > > should still be viewable, or at least I would think so. Thanks for > your > > efforts in trying to explain this to me. Ray > > > > > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Steve Szabo" <steve@> wrote: > > > > > > Ray, > > > > > > The sort of messages in Outlook depends on whether the reply was > > written > > > online in the website, or if it was written elsewhere. The RE: is > > placed > > > differently--written outside the web site of the list it appears > prior > > > to the [Aquatic Life] tag, while written inside the list web site it > > > appears after the tag.. I've read what I thought to be a thread, and > > > replied, only to find out that the question has already been > > adequately > > > answered elsewhere in my sort, but separate from the thread I > replied > > > to. > > > > > > For those of you who do this strictly online, the tag is added when > > the > > > message is sent to a person's e-mail address (and what the heck are > > you > > > doing reading and replying to this stuff online without having the > > > flexibility that answering a post offline gives you?) > > > > > > \\Steve// > > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] > > > On Behalf Of Raymond Wetzel > > > Sent: Saturday, June 20, 2009 5:21 PM > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Dr. Tims > > > > > > Funny . . . I thought I remembered reading some of the nearly exact > > same > > > replies on this topic earlier this morning, somewhere around 9:30. > If > > I > > > didn't know any better, I'd have to think that you might not read > all > > > your emails for this Group -- or maybe just selectively read them > (<G> > > > LOL ROTFL). Ray > > > > > > > > > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" > > > <GoldLenny@> wrote: > > > > > > > > Add it to your running tank (with no fish), then wait a few hours > or > > > until > > > > the next day and then dose the tank with plain ammonia (3 drops > per > > > gallon) > > > > and test the tank for ammonia, nitrite, nitrate. Test again in a > > few > > > hours. > > > > Post results. Within 12-24 hours, all of the ammonia should have > > been > > > > converted to nitrate. If it did, then the Dr. Tim's was not > damaged > > > and is > > > > working. At that point, it's safe to add your fish. If you do > not > > > have > > > > your fish yet, then keep dosing the tank daily with the plain > > ammonia > > > to > > > > keep it "cycled" until you are ready to add the fish. > > > > > > > > When you took it out of the box, was it HOT or still reasonably > cool > > > (room > > > > temperature)? If it didn't get too much over room temperature, > then > > > it > > > > should not have been damaged. > > > > > > > > As far as the "dry ice was liquid", that's not possible since dry > > ice > > > is > > > > frozen CO2 and as it "melts" it actually turns into CO2 which is a > > > gas, so > > > > it doesn't actually melt, it evaporates as it warms up from its > > frozen > > > > state. If it was one of those freezer packs like blue ice or > > > something like > > > > that, then that is not dry ice. If it was the blue ice type > cooling > > > > product, was it warm to the touch or was it still at least at room > > > > temperature? > > > > > > > > Who did you order this from? Let other members know so they can > be > > > sure and > > > > INFORM that company to do a better job of packing in the future. > > You > > > should > > > > also contact them with your complaint that they did NOT use enough > > > cooling > > > > product and/or insulation. > > > > > > > > On a side note, Dr. Tim is actually a member of this group so he > may > > > chime > > > > in himself. You can also contact him directly by going to > > > > http://DrTimsAquatics.com or just emailing him at mailto:info@ and > > > > let him know the details of what happened, so he can maybe provide > > > > the retailer with better > > > packing/shipping > > > > information.. maybe putting a sticker on the box to keep cool so > the > > > > delivery person would know to put the package in a shady place > > instead > > > of > > > > out in direct sunlight. > > > > > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles > > > > referenced in above reply are listed on the > > > right > > > > side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, > > > Month) > > > > > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] > > > On > > > > Behalf Of jan1213@ > > > > Sent: Saturday, June 20, 2009 7:17 AM > > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > > > Subject: [AquaticLife] Dr. Tims > > > > > > > > Dr. Tim's arrived yesterday...on my front porch in the heat...the > > dry > > > ice > > > > was liquid...How do I know this is still good......Jan How would I > > > test > > > > this? >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 41179	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 6/21/2009
Subject: Re: Bristlenose catfish - Photos uploaded

The one male is obvious since he has the bristles on his nose. The other two do not. How old are they, or if you do not know, how long are they? I suspect they may both be females but most catfish are more difficult to sex and sometimes even difficult to identify until they grow out of their juvi stage. Before I bought my current Clown Pleco back in 2007, I was considering the BN plecos as well and I seem to remember that the juvi male BN's, at my LFS, were showing some bristle growth even at a fairly small size. Remember, whether you call it or see it referenced as Bushynose or Bristlenose, it's still likely the same fish species or genera... one of the Ancistrus sp. that have the Bristlenose/Bushynose features. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Jasmine Sent: Sunday, June 21, 2009 2:32 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Bristlenose catfish - Photos uploaded Hi Just uploaded 3 photos. Two of the photos are of our recent addition to the tank. We purchased two of these Bristlenoses, this one is the largest of the two but neither have bristles that we can see. The last photo was taken back in January this year - this is the one I think is the Bushy Nose Pleco What do you think? Jasmine

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 41180	From: biG poppa	Date: 6/21/2009
Subject: Re: Happy Father's Day - Redneck Style (was: Re: Ray Fan Club)

Happy Fathers day to ya two Lenny --- On Sun, 6/21/09, Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@...> wrote: From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@...> Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Happy Father's Day - Redneck Style (was: Re: Ray Fan Club) To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Date: Sunday, June 21, 2009, 12:50 PM "Meet girls"? We always go to family reunions to pick up chicks... not just meet them! And weddings and funerals too! LOL Which reminds me.... Happy Fathers Day to all the Dads out there... and to their Redneck Brothers, Cousins and Uncles too... you know, you never can be sure. Now let me hear you say, YEEEEE HAWWWWWWWWW! LOL Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com [mailto:AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com] On Behalf Of bill 1433 Sent: Sunday, June 21, 2009 11:30 AM To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: Ray Fan Club Like?// You know your a "Redneck" if you go to your family reunion to meet girls? OR If you spend all day staring at an Orange Juice Carton because it says "Concentrate" on it! ol' bill <g> --- On Sun, 6/21/09, Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@gmail. com> wrote: > From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@gmail. com> > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: Ray Fan Club > To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com > Date: Sunday, June 21, 2009, 11:21 AM > YEEEEE HAWWWWWWWWWWWW! !!! > > As Jeff Foxworthy would say, "You know you're a redneck when you have > the Rebel flag painted on the top of your car!" > > Of course, I like many of his other Redneck jokes much better. > > LOL > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com (Links to any articles > referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically > under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) > > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com > [mailto:AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com] > On > Behalf Of Raymond Wetzel > Sent: Sunday, June 21, 2009 7:46 AM > To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Ray Fan Club > > I'll bet Lenny would like to have one of these for when the > cops are chasing > him.  This would have come in real handy for the Dukes > (of Hazard) when > Roscoe P. Coaltrain was chasing them.  Just great to > haul moonshine in.  I > can see Lenny with one if these cars, with the Union Jack > painted on top, of > course!  ROTFLYAOTIME,  Ray > > > > --- In AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com, > "Steve Szabo" <steve@...> wrote: > > > > Lenny, > > > > Of course we have flying cars. Here is one, there are > many others out > there. > > http://auto. howstuffworks. com/flying- car2.htm > > > > BTW, you can get up to 3 meg out of DSL. You just need > to be close enough > to the central office offering such speeds. > > > > > > \\Steve// > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com > [mailto:AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com] > > > On Behalf Of Lenny V. aka GoldLenny > > Sent: Saturday, June 20, 2009 11:51 PM > > To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com > > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Ray Fan Club > > > > And now we're not happy with hi-speed/broadband > speeds. LOL > > > > I just did a little homework. > > > > A modern dial-up modem is rated at top download speed > of 56kbit/s > > (56,000 > > bits/second) which is nearly 50 times faster than a > 1200 baud modem of > > years gone by. > > > > Hi-speed is considered anything over 256kbit/s > (256,000 bits/second) > > download speed or about five times faster than dial > up. > > > > The FCC's definition for "Broadband" is download speed > over 768kbit/s > > (768,000 bits/second) which is about 15 times faster > than dial-up and > > 750 times faster than one of those "historic" 1200 > baud modems. > > > > DSL lines have speeds up to around 1.5Mbps (1,500,000+ > bits/second) > > with Cable modems reaching 2-3Mbps speeds (2,000,000+ > to 3,000,000+ > > bits/second) and even double those speeds if folks pay > for it.  These > > DSL and Cable Modem speeds are 250 to nearly 600 times > faster than > > dial up modems and over 15,000 times faster than one > of them old 1200 > > baud modems.  Of course, you can get broadband at > much higher speeds. > > > > And now the BIG question.... why don't we have flying > cars yet?  The > > Jetsons, an authority on the future, clearly showed > computer automated > > homes, robots and flying cars.  We have computers > and automated homes, > > we have robots... but we're not even close to a flying > car yet.  If > > anything, we're regressing in automotive speed, not > progressing as > > with most other technologies. > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com (Links to > any articles > > referenced in above reply are listed on the right > side, alphabetically > > under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 41181	From: Dora Smith	Date: 6/21/2009
Subject: Re: O/T Outlook Configuration, \\Steve//, was: Dr. Tims

Not exactly following. Ray, are you saying you read ALL your mail? Uh-uh! I find Outlook Express easier to work with than Outlook. I just click on which column I want my mail sorted by at any given moment - usually, for me, subject or when received. Subject puts MOST mail from the same mailing list together. You can create "message rules" or filters to highlight certain mail with colors or put it in certain folders. Yours, Dora Smith Austin, TX tiggernut24@... ----- Original Message ----- From: "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@...> To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Sunday, June 21, 2009 11:03 AM Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: O/T Outlook Configuration, \\Steve//, was: Dr. Tims And then there is always the PROBLEM or threat, when typing a long reply in an online forum and you hit the send button and the dang website freezes, or due to Adobe Flash Ads, IE freezes up, or worse case scenario, your computer freezes up and you lose your LONG REPLY. At least with Outlook, as I'm typing a long reply, I have Outlook set to constantly save the reply as a Draft so even if something should happen to cause my computer to freeze up, I do not lose my work. I also this auto-draft-saving feature set up on MS-Word, my blogs and most other programs where I might type long letters/posts/replies. Auto-draft-saving is a God send, after having lost stuff in the past. Gmail's web interface has the auto-draft-saving feature as do most of the web interfaces of blogging sites, including my own. It's a shame that Yahoo Groups does not have this feature. I know this has happened to you in the past, as it has with me also, which is why I choose to use Outlook to do my replying... especially since I tend to be long-winded. Of course, others may say I'm just full of wind. LOL I guess I could start doing the Subject line sorting but I think that many folks appreciate someone "seconding" a post, whether it just be "I agree with _______" or by intentionally or inadvertently typing a similar reply after the first reply was already posted. This is even more true if the OP (Original Poster) is new and does not know the person replying and whether their reply is completely accurate. At least if they see two or more replies with similar information, they'll feel more comfortable relying on said replies. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Steve Szabo Sent: Sunday, June 21, 2009 9:03 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: O/T Outlook Configuration, \\Steve//, was: Dr. Tims Ray, There are time constraints I mentioned earlier. When I get home in the evening, having already worked a 10-14 hour day, I have about 2 hours to go through the +/-200 messages waiting. A lot of the message I get are not easy reads, jokes and stuff like that, but do take some time to read since they cover topics like networking (computer), other things computer in a technical sense, certain legal topics, though I am not a lawyer, news (usually an easy read) and fish/aquarium topics. There are a good number of one off messages, i.e. those that are not threaded because they are newsletters and other non-list correspondence. There will be between 500-800 messages in my Inbox at any given time. There is some prioritizing, I'll go through my Inbox to start, sorted by receipt, and I'll quickly remove the Freecycle stuff, unless there is something I'm interested in, marking whole groups of them as read and deleting in one fell swoop. While I am doing that, I am also looking for messages that have direct bearing on one of my businesses so I can handle them ASAP. Then I'll go through messages I have previously marked to be handled by that day, and dispose of them. Then, I'll go through the remaining new messages starting with the oldest one (as received) and work my way through the list. If any of these messages are list messages, I'll sort on subject to find if there is a thread, so I can read the whole thread to determine if it is worth writing a reply. I am aware, as you have seen, of how Yahoo! manages their list messages with subject tags, and I will give a quick scroll to see if I see any others, but if they are not close in the sort, more than two or three scroll wheel turns, I go no further, and write a reply if I feel that one is needed. I'll then go down the threads until I hit a single message and them put the sort back to receipt, now working may way down the list with each message read being received earlier than the one previously read, unless or until I hit the earliest one, at which time I go back to reading the way I started, until I hit the next threaded message. This allows me to spend only 2-3 hours reading messages, writing replies and writing new messages. One may notice that I tend to be more verbose on the weekends and holidays, simply because I have more time. If I have to refer back to an earlier message, it is easy enough to do so. If I need to research, my browser is always open, and a quick bookmark or search usually enables me to find the answer I need. Over the last several years there has been a big drive to improve the "stickiness" of a site, in other words to keep people at the site, rather than having them do a hit and run. This is especially true of sites that depend on advertising revenue for a big chunk of their income, and it is a big selling point to advertisers that they court for a site to say that the average visitor stays for 22 minutes for each visit to the site. It increase the chance there will be a click on an ad, on purpose or inadvertently. There are some sites out there with very good "forums" as they call them, where the only way you can get and send messages is to visit the site and read online and/or post online. There is no mail functionality to them. I very seldom visit those sites, unless I am looking for something specifically, and then it is only to take rather than to participate. I just don't have the time, and I know I am not the only one. I just don't have the time to hop from forum to forum each night looking to see what is available. And, before someone like Lenny says I should get a faster connection, I already have a connection that can receive information than a lot of these sites will send it to me, with 20mbps down. Back to Yahoo!. It simply is not efficient for me to work online with Yahoo! and the way it handles replies with tags in the subject to those who receive mails sent to outside destinations is deplorable. However, it is less disruptive to my workflow than using the web interface. \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Raymond Wetzel Sent: Sunday, June 21, 2009 7:49 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: O/T Outlook Configuration, \\Steve//, was: Dr. Tims Hi \\Steve//, I appreciate the time it took you to explain all this -- especially in a way that makes it absolutely clear to me (I think <g>). I never realized there could be that much difference in the way subject lines are received. Still, as the computer operator of the machine that uses Outlook, you would be aware of this difference in the Subject line and should know what to expect. And, knowing what to expect, once you see a member posting a new question -- with it's particular, new Subject heading/name -- and after realizing that it's coming through the "Aquatic Life" Group -- wouldn't any other same-worded Subject headings alert you to the fact that these additional messages are threads to the original poster's message -- regardless of the position or presence of "Re:" or the presence or absence of the tag "AquaticLife"? After all, you chose to use Outlook, so you should know what to look for and what to expect. Any change in the Subject line being sent by various members should not be a surprise to you -- and please know I'm not trying to be contrary here, but just trying to understand this further. Now getting back to Outlook's benefit of being able to use color, which is a good advantage -- are there any other benefits of this? I too would like the option of using color (can I presume you could use any option in your toolbar? -- size, font, bold, etc.?), but to me I don't think it would outweigh the advantage I have when I can compose a message right on the website page. If I write a reply to a post that I need to refer back to several times, I need to Minimize the page that I'm writing to see the original message underneath. Then, I need to minimize that message to be able to retrieve my own Minimized message to continue writing, and so on, back and forth if the content of the first message is lengthy (or varied) enough to make it difficult to remember it all (unless I print it out). When I compose my message on the website, I just need to scroll down to the original poster's message that's underneath mine to continually refer back to it, if I need to -- it's always there in plain view -- no minimizing-- maximizing (normalizing) games. Maybe there's something I'm missing here, I don't know. Ray --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Steve Szabo" <steve@...> wrote: > > Ray, > > I was not referring to Lenny in my post, but myself. However, I know > that Lenny also uses Outlook, and I am sure that many others do as well. > When I look at messages on line, there is no tag in the subject line. > This tag "[AquaticLife]" is seen by those who have the mail delivered to > their mail server and then read it with a mail reader such as Outlook. I > note now that this tag does not show online, even if the message is sent > as a reply from outside the web site. It appears that Yahoo! strips it > out. Now, for those of us not working within the online environment > within the web site of the list, the original message will appear with a > subject line looking like this: > [AquaticLife] Dr. Tims > The original message's subject shown in the web site appears like this: > Dr. Tims > Thus far, no problem, a thread has not developed. > > Now, if I was to reply to this message from my Outlook, the subject that > comes back is: > RE: [AquaticLife] Dr. Tims > While you would see it on the web site as: > Re: Dr. Tims > Outlook will sort just fine with the first format shown here, the " RE: > [AquaticLife] Dr. Tims" just fine because it will ignore the RE: at the > beginning. > > The problem occurs when someone relies on the web site. The subject > online will still look normal to you, but what shows up in the Inbox of > a reader is very different. Online, you see: > Re: Dr. Tims > And you can sort the thread by that with no problem. They call it > "group by topic" at Yahoo!. However, what I would see is: > RE: [AquaticLife] Re: Dr. Tims > And therein is the problem. For the sort, the first RE: is ignored, but > the second is not, therefore the message gets sorted on the "Re:" and > not the "Dr.". This puts that portion of the thread into another > grouping of messages, all that have that subject. And, it can even get > worse. Sometimes there are multiple "Re:"s in the subject line after > the tag. This then throws the message into another sort group. > > So, for us who work offline, there is a problem. We will not see all the > messages in a thread. We will read what is there, and reply to that. I > am aware of this, but do not always have the time to look through the > sort to see if there are any other pieces to the thread, thanks to > Yahoo!'s crazy way of handling the messages going out since they can be > widely separated from each other. > > What can be done about this? Forcing everyone to use a mail reader is > not feasible. Yahoo! will not allow it, they want people to read the ads > presented that help pay for the service. However, these tags are not > mandatory. It may be time for those who run this list to take a look at > the use of the tags and whether the use of the tag here should be > continued. Outlook gives me the option of using color to show messages > from a particular source, but not all readers do this. Perhaps a poll on > the tag would give some useful information to those who would make the > determination. There are lists here that do not have the tag in their > subject line. > > \\Steve// > > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] > On Behalf Of Raymond Wetzel > Sent: Saturday, June 20, 2009 6:46 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Dr. Tims > > \\Steve//, I'm trying to follow you on this, but right off the bat I > don't understand why you are bringing up "Outlook". Are you saying that > Lenny uses Outlook whereas most others don't? -- and that, that's where > the problem lies? I always reply by going to our group web site and > enter my messages from there after opening the poster's message (which > I'm doing right now with yours). Are you saying that some people never > see my messages on this Group? > > Since this is not the first occurance by far of redundant information > being posted numerous times over the years, after I've already posted > identical information, I've often wondered why anyone who would read my > info and continue to post the same information, seemingly as if ignoring > my posts -- or so it has appeared. I never understood the purpose for > doing so, but if they've never seen the initial post then they would > have no way of even knowing it existed, which would explain this > behavior. I'm still at a loss though, to figure out how Yahoogroups can > allow for messaging by some members, that cannot be seen by other > members, if that's what you're saying. > > I presume by "Tag" you mean Subject Line (???), I'm not quite sure, but > assume so. Here's where I don't understand why a message isn't being > read. Doesn't our Group site name appear in the subject line regardless > of where it's placed? -- I think I understand you to say it may be in > the beginning or at the end, but even so, with a short subject name, it > should still be viewable, or at least I would think so. Thanks for your > efforts in trying to explain this to me. Ray > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Steve Szabo" <steve@> wrote: > > > > Ray, > > > > The sort of messages in Outlook depends on whether the reply was > written > > online in the website, or if it was written elsewhere. The RE: is > placed > > differently--written outside the web site of the list it appears prior > > to the [Aquatic Life] tag, while written inside the list web site it > > appears after the tag.. I've read what I thought to be a thread, and > > replied, only to find out that the question has already been > adequately > > answered elsewhere in my sort, but separate from the thread I replied > > to. > > > > For those of you who do this strictly online, the tag is added when > the > > message is sent to a person's e-mail address (and what the heck are > you > > doing reading and replying to this stuff online without having the > > flexibility that answering a post offline gives you?) > > > > \\Steve// > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] > > On Behalf Of Raymond Wetzel > > Sent: Saturday, June 20, 2009 5:21 PM > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Dr. Tims > > > > Funny . . . I thought I remembered reading some of the nearly exact > same > > replies on this topic earlier this morning, somewhere around 9:30. If > I > > didn't know any better, I'd have to think that you might not read all > > your emails for this Group -- or maybe just selectively read them (<G> > > LOL ROTFL). Ray > > > > > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" > > <GoldLenny@> wrote: > > > > > > Add it to your running tank (with no fish), then wait a few hours or > > until > > > the next day and then dose the tank with plain ammonia (3 drops per > > gallon) > > > and test the tank for ammonia, nitrite, nitrate. Test again in a > few > > hours. > > > Post results. Within 12-24 hours, all of the ammonia should have > been > > > converted to nitrate. If it did, then the Dr. Tim's was not damaged > > and is > > > working. At that point, it's safe to add your fish. If you do not > > have > > > your fish yet, then keep dosing the tank daily with the plain > ammonia > > to > > > keep it "cycled" until you are ready to add the fish. > > > > > > When you took it out of the box, was it HOT or still reasonably cool > > (room > > > temperature)? If it didn't get too much over room temperature, then > > it > > > should not have been damaged. > > > > > > As far as the "dry ice was liquid", that's not possible since dry > ice > > is > > > frozen CO2 and as it "melts" it actually turns into CO2 which is a > > gas, so > > > it doesn't actually melt, it evaporates as it warms up from its > frozen > > > state. If it was one of those freezer packs like blue ice or > > something like > > > that, then that is not dry ice. If it was the blue ice type cooling > > > product, was it warm to the touch or was it still at least at room > > > temperature? > > > > > > Who did you order this from? Let other members know so they can be > > sure and > > > INFORM that company to do a better job of packing in the future. > You > > should > > > also contact them with your complaint that they did NOT use enough > > cooling > > > product and/or insulation. > > > > > > On a side note, Dr. Tim is actually a member of this group so he may > > chime > > > in himself. You can also contact him directly by going to > > > http://DrTimsAquatics.com or just emailing him at mailto:info@ and > > > let him know the details of what happened, so he can maybe provide > > > the retailer with better > > packing/shipping > > > information.. maybe putting a sticker on the box to keep cool so the > > > delivery person would know to put the package in a shady place > instead > > of > > > out in direct sunlight. > > > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles > > > referenced in above reply are listed on the > > right > > > side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, > > Month) > > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] > > On > > > Behalf Of jan1213@ > > > Sent: Saturday, June 20, 2009 7:17 AM > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > > Subject: [AquaticLife] Dr. Tims > > > > > > Dr. Tim's arrived yesterday...on my front porch in the heat...the > dry > > ice > > > was liquid...How do I know this is still good......Jan How would I > > test > > > this? ------------------------------------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the home page. Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com to receive the digest, which includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com for the No E-Mail option where you will still be able to read messages on the group and post replies. Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com to receive individual e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 41182	From: pam andress	Date: 6/21/2009
Subject: Re: Bristlenose catfish - Photos uploaded

Very nice pictures! Yes he is a BN pleco. Probably just over a year old. Pam To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com From: adonaikam@... Date: Sun, 21 Jun 2009 07:32:27 +0000 Subject: [AquaticLife] Bristlenose catfish - Photos uploaded Hi Just uploaded 3 photos. Two of the photos are of our recent addition to the tank. We purchased two of these Bristlenoses, this one is the largest of the two but neither have bristles that we can see. The last photo was taken back in January this year - this is the one I think is the Bushy Nose Pleco What do you think? Jasmine [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 41183	From: Raymond Wetzel	Date: 6/21/2009
Subject: Re: Pelco verse Bristlenose

Jasmine, Real nice fish photography, you must have a good camera to get good (sharp) close ups like this. Question: What makes you believe that your large Marble Angelfish is a female? Ray --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Jasmine" <adonaikam@...> wrote: > > Thank you Lenny > > I've had a look at all the sites and yes I'm pretty sure its a Bristlenose pleco. > > I had fun tonight taking photos of my fish after I fed them. I have updated a few more photos. Marjority of which were of the bristlenose pleco - some nice close up shots. > > Jasmine > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@> wrote: > > > > I just looked at your picture and you definitely have a Bristlenose pleco > > (catfish) a/k/a bushynose pleco (catfish). Many sites will call it a > > Bristlenose catfish instead of pleco since pleco would suggest it's a H. > > plecostomus, which it's not. > > > > A search on PlanetCatfish.com, one of the most extensive websites on the net > > about all things catfish, has several species of Bristlenose catfish, as > > well as albino variants but yours is not an albino so look at the below > > profiles and click on the pictures and compare yours to find out which > > Ancistrus species you have. > > > > http://www.planetcatfish.com/catelog/species.php?species_id=49 Ancistrus cf. > > cirrhosus > > > > http://www.planetcatfish.com/catelog/species.php?species_id=152 Ancistrus > > claro > > > > http://www.planetcatfish.com/catelog/species.php?species_id=221 Ancistrus > > dolichopterus > > > > http://www.planetcatfish.com/catelog/species.php?species_id=48 Ancistrus > > tamboensis > > > > These other reputable websites have even more species or variants listed. > > > > http://www.aquariumlife.net/profiles/plecostamus/bristle-nose-pleco/100049.a > > sp Ancistrus temminckii > > > > This site is more about the generic Ancistrus sp. and has lots of comments > > from other BN Pleco keepers. You'll see there are 3 pages of comments if > > you want to read them all. Of course, check out comments before taking them > > as fact. > > > > http://www.aquahobby.com/gallery/e_bristle.php > > > > Let us know which one you have. If you can't figure it out, then you will > > need to get better pictures and post them here and see if one of us can. > > Take front and side pics with the fins extended, if possible. I hear that > > playing Madonna's Vogue song will cause people and fish to "strike a pose". > > ;-) > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > > (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right > > side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On > > Behalf Of Jasmine > > Sent: Saturday, June 20, 2009 11:51 PM > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Pelco verse Bristlenose > > > > Hi Lenny > > > > It was all me, I spelt it wrong. I simply spelt it phonetically the way I > > pronounce it. > > > > From viewing the hyperlinks you provided and reading what you wrote – it > > appears I may have a Bushy Nose Pleco. I got my camera and went to take a > > photo but, it was in hiding. It's been hiding a lot over the last couple of > > weeks and has only just started venturing out. > > > > I can't be sure how long we have had him for, I did find a photo of him > > which was taken back in January this year (its a poor shot but I can make > > out it was him). When I got him he already had bristles. I don't think we > > have had him more than a year. > > > > I'll try and get a shot and post it for you. In the mean time, I did manage > > to get a good shot of one of our newest BN – I just need to recharge the > > battery on the camera before I can do anything  > > > > Jasmine > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@> > > wrote: > > > > > > I'm not sure if you accidentally misspelled Pleco when you referred to > > > it as Pelco but that is a common internet myth about this group of fish. > > > According to the myth, if you spell Pleco as Pleco and not misspell it > > > as Pelco or Pl*co or Plec, your Pleco will die. PLECO, PLECO, PLECO, > > > PLECO, PLECO, PLECO, PLECO. I just checked and my Clown Pleco is > > > still fine. ;-) > > > > > > The term or common name, Pleco, should have probably been called > > > "Suckermouth Catfish" instead of Pleco, but I guess Pleco is nice and > > short. > > > The general term Pleco probably became the most commonly used term as > > > it is short for Hypostomus Plecostomus which is the one of the several > > > species that are commonly referred to as "Common Pleco" in pet stores. > > > Other species included and commonly sold as "Common Plecos" are > > > Pterygoplichthys pardalis, Acipenser plecostomus, Hypostomus > > > punctatus, Liposarcus multiradiatus, Liposarcus pardalis, Plecostomus > > plecostomus (from: > > > http://www.aquariumlife.net/profiles/common-plecostomus/100173.asp). > > > Some of these scientific names may have changed which is a common > > > happening in the catfish world in recent history. > > > > > > Unfortunately for the "Common Pleco" fish and the fish keeper, "Common > > > Plecos" grow to 18" to 24" long and are not really suitable for the > > > majority of aquariums. A single fish needs at least a 6' to 8' long > > > tank and at least 75G of water volume for itself. Most are kept in > > > undersized tanks and never reach their full potential or live a full > > > life due to the stunting that ensues from being kept in undersized tanks. > > > > > > The Bristlenose Pleco, often referred to as BN Pleco, is actually from > > > a different Genera than the Hypostomus Plecostomus. The species name > > > for BN Plecos is Ancistrus dolichopterus (the last time I checked) BUT > > > both of these Genera and several others all fall under the family of > > > Loricariidae or "Suckermouth Catfish" > > > http://fish.mongabay.com/loricariidae.htm which also includes a profile > > for your Bristlenose Pleco on the page. > > > > > > You are probably correct that you have a male Bristlnose Pleco as the > > > females do not have the "bristles on their snouts or the bristles are > > > much less pronounced. How long have you had yours. They normally > > > grow to around 6" and according to my article on "How Long Should Your > > > Fish Live", they should live around 20 years. > > > http://goldlenny.blogspot.com/2007/02/how-long-should-aquarium-fish-li > > > ve.htm > > > l > > > > > > You will have to give me a link to what you saw pictures of, described > > > as Pelco, but I'm sure it was someone falling for the myth and > > > misspelling the name of their Bristlenose Pleco as Pelco. > > > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles > > > referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically > > > under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] > > > On Behalf Of Jasmine > > > Sent: Saturday, June 20, 2009 9:28 PM > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > > Subject: [AquaticLife] Pelco verse Bristlenose > > > > > > Can anyone tell me what the difference is between these two? > > > > > > Is it just terminology or is there a difference? > > > > > > I have what I've always called a male bristlenose - its about 5" and has > > > bristles on its head. I have seen a few photos of Pelco's and they look > > so > > > much like my bristlenose. > > > Thanks > > > Jasmine > > > > > > > > > > > > > ------------------------------------ > > > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. > > ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> > > PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to > > the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT > > LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- > > <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. > > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. > > > > If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of unsubscribing, you > > can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the > > home page. > > > > Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com to receive the digest, which > > includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email > > > > Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com for the No E-Mail option where > > you will still be able to read messages on the group and post replies. > > > > Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com to receive individual > > e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links > > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 41184	From: Raymond Wetzel	Date: 6/21/2009
Subject: Re: O/T Outlook Configuration, \\Steve//, was: Dr. Tims

Dora, Yes, that's exactly what I'm saying, Uh-Huh! There's no reason for me to miss a single message that I prefer to open, as every one from the group has the Group Tag along with the Subject Tag, regardless of where an "Re:" might be placed -- besides having the the poster's email address (less the domain). Any other emails, personal or not, are listed also, with Subject Tag along with their complete address, to make it recognizeable. Any other email that I don't recognize by the address or Subject, or that is apparently spam gets deleted without even opening it. It's all laid out for me in my mailbox window, one under the other, etc. Why does it appear so incredulous to you, as it would seem by your message? It's extremely easy, so much so in its simplicity. I would think this is just normal practice with everyone's email delivery. Don't you have a mailbox window that lists your incoming (New) mail one below the other on chronological order? I do notice that if you want, you can sort your New Mail by Subject. I really haven't seen the need for that as all one needs to do (with the way I receive it), is to use your eyes to scan down the mail window and a same Subject Tag becomes immediately obvious (even if it may be several messages below). To check for posts in the same thread that may have been sent later, the "very difficult" chore of using the pointer the scroll down further is needed, but then, I would want to do that anyway to see any additional messages posted in that thread or a new one. I do see where color highlighting could come in handy as an assist, which I can see \\Steve// taking advantage of. As for setting it up to put in certain folders, I prefer to do that myself as needed. I may not be completely following your line of questioning, nor the reason why. I do appreciate your filling me in on some of the benefits of Outlook Express, and while I haven't used it, I don't see where it would be much more advantageous to me over the way I'm used to receiving my email. Many thanks for the briefing, Ray --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Dora Smith" <tiggernut24@...> wrote: > > Not exactly following. Ray, are you saying you read ALL your mail? Uh-uh! > > I find Outlook Express easier to work with than Outlook. I just click on > which column I want my mail sorted by at any given moment - usually, for me, > subject or when received. Subject puts MOST mail from the same mailing > list together. You can create "message rules" or filters to highlight > certain mail with colors or put it in certain folders. > > Yours, > Dora Smith > Austin, TX > tiggernut24@... > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@...> > To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com> > Sent: Sunday, June 21, 2009 11:03 AM > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: O/T Outlook Configuration, \\Steve//, was: > Dr. Tims > > > And then there is always the PROBLEM or threat, when typing a long reply in > an online forum and you hit the send button and the dang website freezes, or > due to Adobe Flash Ads, IE freezes up, or worse case scenario, your computer > freezes up and you lose your LONG REPLY. At least with Outlook, as I'm > typing a long reply, I have Outlook set to constantly save the reply as a > Draft so even if something should happen to cause my computer to freeze up, > I do not lose my work. I also this auto-draft-saving feature set up on > MS-Word, my blogs and most other programs where I might type long > letters/posts/replies. Auto-draft-saving is a God send, after having lost > stuff in the past. Gmail's web interface has the auto-draft-saving feature > as do most of the web interfaces of blogging sites, including my own. It's > a shame that Yahoo Groups does not have this feature. I know this has > happened to you in the past, as it has with me also, which is why I choose > to use Outlook to do my replying... especially since I tend to be > long-winded. Of course, others may say I'm just full of wind. LOL > > I guess I could start doing the Subject line sorting but I think that many > folks appreciate someone "seconding" a post, whether it just be "I agree > with _______" or by intentionally or inadvertently typing a similar reply > after the first reply was already posted. This is even more true if the OP > (Original Poster) is new and does not know the person replying and whether > their reply is completely accurate. At least if they see two or more > replies with similar information, they'll feel more comfortable relying on > said replies. > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right > side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) > > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On > Behalf Of Steve Szabo > Sent: Sunday, June 21, 2009 9:03 AM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: O/T Outlook Configuration, \\Steve//, was: > Dr. Tims > > Ray, > > There are time constraints I mentioned earlier. When I get home in the > evening, having already worked a 10-14 hour day, I have about 2 hours to go > through the +/-200 messages waiting. A lot of the message I get are not easy > reads, jokes and stuff like that, but do take some time to read since they > cover topics like networking (computer), other things computer in a > technical sense, certain legal topics, though I am not a lawyer, news > (usually an easy read) and fish/aquarium topics. There are a good number of > one off messages, i.e. those that are not threaded because they are > newsletters and other non-list correspondence. There will be between 500-800 > messages in my Inbox at any given time. There is some prioritizing, I'll go > through my Inbox to start, sorted by receipt, and I'll quickly remove the > Freecycle stuff, unless there is something I'm interested in, marking whole > groups of them as read and deleting in one fell swoop. While I am doing > that, I am also looking for messages that have direct bearing on one of my > businesses so I can handle them ASAP. Then I'll go through messages I have > previously marked to be handled by that day, and dispose of them. Then, I'll > go through the remaining new messages starting with the oldest one (as > received) and work my way through the list. If any of these messages are > list messages, I'll sort on subject to find if there is a thread, so I can > read the whole thread to determine if it is worth writing a reply. I am > aware, as you have seen, of how Yahoo! manages their list messages with > subject tags, and I will give a quick scroll to see if I see any others, but > if they are not close in the sort, more than two or three scroll wheel > turns, I go no further, and write a reply if I feel that one is needed. I'll > then go down the threads until I hit a single message and them put the sort > back to receipt, now working may way down the list with each message read > being received earlier than the one previously read, unless or until I hit > the earliest one, at which time I go back to reading the way I started, > until I hit the next threaded message. This allows me to spend only 2-3 > hours reading messages, writing replies and writing new messages. One may > notice that I tend to be more verbose on the weekends and holidays, simply > because I have more time. > > If I have to refer back to an earlier message, it is easy enough to do so. > If I need to research, my browser is always open, and a quick bookmark or > search usually enables me to find the answer I need. > > Over the last several years there has been a big drive to improve the > "stickiness" of a site, in other words to keep people at the site, rather > than having them do a hit and run. This is especially true of sites that > depend on advertising revenue for a big chunk of their income, and it is a > big selling point to advertisers that they court for a site to say that the > average visitor stays for 22 minutes for each visit to the site. It increase > the chance there will be a click on an ad, on purpose or inadvertently. > There are some sites out there with very good "forums" as they call them, > where the only way you can get and send messages is to visit the site and > read online and/or post online. > There is no mail functionality to them. I very seldom visit those sites, > unless I am looking for something specifically, and then it is only to take > rather than to participate. I just don't have the time, and I know I am not > the only one. I just don't have the time to hop from forum to forum each > night looking to see what is available. And, before someone like Lenny says > I should get a faster connection, I already have a connection that can > receive information than a lot of these sites will send it to me, with > 20mbps down. > > Back to Yahoo!. It simply is not efficient for me to work online with Yahoo! > and the way it handles replies with tags in the subject to those who receive > mails sent to outside destinations is deplorable. However, it is less > disruptive to my workflow than using the web interface. > > > > \\Steve// > > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] > On Behalf Of Raymond Wetzel > Sent: Sunday, June 21, 2009 7:49 AM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: O/T Outlook Configuration, \\Steve//, was: > Dr. Tims > > Hi \\Steve//, I appreciate the time it took you to explain all this -- > especially in a way that makes it absolutely clear to me (I think <g>). > I never realized there could be that much difference in the way subject > lines are received. Still, as the computer operator of the machine that > uses Outlook, you would be aware of this difference in the Subject line and > should know what to expect. And, knowing what to expect, once you see a > member posting a new question -- with it's particular, new Subject > heading/name -- and after realizing that it's coming through the "Aquatic > Life" Group -- wouldn't any other same-worded Subject headings alert you to > the fact that these additional messages are threads to the original poster's > message -- regardless of the position or presence of "Re:" or the presence > or absence of the tag "AquaticLife"? After all, you chose to use Outlook, > so you should know what to look for and what to expect. Any change in the > Subject line being sent by various members should not be a surprise to you > -- and please know I'm not trying to be contrary here, but just trying to > understand this further. > > Now getting back to Outlook's benefit of being able to use color, which is a > good advantage -- are there any other benefits of this? I too would like > the option of using color (can I presume you could use any option in your > toolbar? -- size, font, bold, etc.?), but to me I don't think it would > outweigh the advantage I have when I can compose a message right on the > website page. If I write a reply to a post that I need to refer back to > several times, I need to Minimize the page that I'm writing to see the > original message underneath. Then, I need to minimize that message to be > able to retrieve my own Minimized message to continue writing, and so on, > back and forth if the content of the first message is lengthy (or varied) > enough to make it difficult to remember it all (unless I print it out). > When I compose my message on the website, I just need to scroll down to the > original poster's message that's underneath mine to continually refer back > to it, if I need to -- it's always there in plain view -- no minimizing-- > maximizing > (normalizing) games. Maybe there's something I'm missing here, I don't > know. Ray > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Steve Szabo" <steve@> wrote: > > > > Ray, > > > > I was not referring to Lenny in my post, but myself. However, I know > > that Lenny also uses Outlook, and I am sure that many others do as > well. > > When I look at messages on line, there is no tag in the subject line. > > This tag "[AquaticLife]" is seen by those who have the mail delivered > to > > their mail server and then read it with a mail reader such as Outlook. > I > > note now that this tag does not show online, even if the message is > sent > > as a reply from outside the web site. It appears that Yahoo! strips it > > out. Now, for those of us not working within the online environment > > within the web site of the list, the original message will appear with > a > > subject line looking like this: > > [AquaticLife] Dr. Tims > > The original message's subject shown in the web site appears like > this: > > Dr. Tims > > Thus far, no problem, a thread has not developed. > > > > Now, if I was to reply to this message from my Outlook, the subject > that > > comes back is: > > RE: [AquaticLife] Dr. Tims > > While you would see it on the web site as: > > Re: Dr. Tims > > Outlook will sort just fine with the first format shown here, the " > RE: > > [AquaticLife] Dr. Tims" just fine because it will ignore the RE: at > the > > beginning. > > > > The problem occurs when someone relies on the web site. The subject > > online will still look normal to you, but what shows up in the Inbox > of > > a reader is very different. Online, you see: > > Re: Dr. Tims > > And you can sort the thread by that with no problem. They call it > > "group by topic" at Yahoo!. However, what I would see is: > > RE: [AquaticLife] Re: Dr. Tims > > And therein is the problem. For the sort, the first RE: is ignored, > but > > the second is not, therefore the message gets sorted on the "Re:" and > > not the "Dr.". This puts that portion of the thread into another > > grouping of messages, all that have that subject. And, it can even get > > worse. Sometimes there are multiple "Re:"s in the subject line after > > the tag. This then throws the message into another sort group. > > > > So, for us who work offline, there is a problem. We will not see all > the > > messages in a thread. We will read what is there, and reply to that. I > > am aware of this, but do not always have the time to look through the > > sort to see if there are any other pieces to the thread, thanks to > > Yahoo!'s crazy way of handling the messages going out since they can > be > > widely separated from each other. > > > > What can be done about this? Forcing everyone to use a mail reader is > > not feasible. Yahoo! will not allow it, they want people to read the > ads > > presented that help pay for the service. However, these tags are not > > mandatory. It may be time for those who run this list to take a look > at > > the use of the tags and whether the use of the tag here should be > > continued. Outlook gives me the option of using color to show messages > > from a particular source, but not all readers do this. Perhaps a poll > on > > the tag would give some useful information to those who would make the > > determination. There are lists here that do not have the tag in their > > subject line. > > > > \\Steve// > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] > > On Behalf Of Raymond Wetzel > > Sent: Saturday, June 20, 2009 6:46 PM > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Dr. Tims > > > > \\Steve//, I'm trying to follow you on this, but right off the bat I > > don't understand why you are bringing up "Outlook". Are you saying > that > > Lenny uses Outlook whereas most others don't? -- and that, that's > where > > the problem lies? I always reply by going to our group web site and > > enter my messages from there after opening the poster's message (which > > I'm doing right now with yours). Are you saying that some people > never > > see my messages on this Group? > > > > Since this is not the first occurance by far of redundant information > > being posted numerous times over the years, after I've already posted > > identical information, I've often wondered why anyone who would read > my > > info and continue to post the same information, seemingly as if > ignoring > > my posts -- or so it has appeared. I never understood the purpose for > > doing so, but if they've never seen the initial post then they would > > have no way of even knowing it existed, which would explain this > > behavior. I'm still at a loss though, to figure out how Yahoogroups > can > > allow for messaging by some members, that cannot be seen by other > > members, if that's what you're saying. > > > > I presume by "Tag" you mean Subject Line (???), I'm not quite sure, > but > > assume so. Here's where I don't understand why a message isn't being > > read. Doesn't our Group site name appear in the subject line > regardless > > of where it's placed? -- I think I understand you to say it may be in > > the beginning or at the end, but even so, with a short subject name, > it > > should still be viewable, or at least I would think so. Thanks for > your > > efforts in trying to explain this to me. Ray > > > > > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Steve Szabo" <steve@> wrote: > > > > > > Ray, > > > > > > The sort of messages in Outlook depends on whether the reply was > > written > > > online in the website, or if it was written elsewhere. The RE: is > > placed > > > differently--written outside the web site of the list it appears > prior > > > to the [Aquatic Life] tag, while written inside the list web site it > > > appears after the tag.. I've read what I thought to be a thread, and > > > replied, only to find out that the question has already been > > adequately > > > answered elsewhere in my sort, but separate from the thread I > replied > > > to. > > > > > > For those of you who do this strictly online, the tag is added when > > the > > > message is sent to a person's e-mail address (and what the heck are > > you > > > doing reading and replying to this stuff online without having the > > > flexibility that answering a post offline gives you?) > > > > > > \\Steve// > > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] > > > On Behalf Of Raymond Wetzel > > > Sent: Saturday, June 20, 2009 5:21 PM > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Dr. Tims > > > > > > Funny . . . I thought I remembered reading some of the nearly exact > > same > > > replies on this topic earlier this morning, somewhere around 9:30. > If > > I > > > didn't know any better, I'd have to think that you might not read > all > > > your emails for this Group -- or maybe just selectively read them > (<G> > > > LOL ROTFL). Ray > > > > > > > > > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" > > > <GoldLenny@> wrote: > > > > > > > > Add it to your running tank (with no fish), then wait a few hours > or > > > until > > > > the next day and then dose the tank with plain ammonia (3 drops > per > > > gallon) > > > > and test the tank for ammonia, nitrite, nitrate. Test again in a > > few > > > hours. > > > > Post results. Within 12-24 hours, all of the ammonia should have > > been > > > > converted to nitrate. If it did, then the Dr. Tim's was not > damaged > > > and is > > > > working. At that point, it's safe to add your fish. If you do > not > > > have > > > > your fish yet, then keep dosing the tank daily with the plain > > ammonia > > > to > > > > keep it "cycled" until you are ready to add the fish. > > > > > > > > When you took it out of the box, was it HOT or still reasonably > cool > > > (room > > > > temperature)? If it didn't get too much over room temperature, > then > > > it > > > > should not have been damaged. > > > > > > > > As far as the "dry ice was liquid", that's not possible since dry > > ice > > > is > > > > frozen CO2 and as it "melts" it actually turns into CO2 which is a > > > gas, so > > > > it doesn't actually melt, it evaporates as it warms up from its > > frozen > > > > state. If it was one of those freezer packs like blue ice or > > > something like > > > > that, then that is not dry ice. If it was the blue ice type > cooling > > > > product, was it warm to the touch or was it still at least at room > > > > temperature? > > > > > > > > Who did you order this from? Let other members know so they can > be > > > sure and > > > > INFORM that company to do a better job of packing in the future. > > You > > > should > > > > also contact them with your complaint that they did NOT use enough > > > cooling > > > > product and/or insulation. > > > > > > > > On a side note, Dr. Tim is actually a member of this group so he > may > > > chime > > > > in himself. You can also contact him directly by going to > > > > http://DrTimsAquatics.com or just emailing him at mailto:info@ and > > > > let him know the details of what happened, so he can maybe provide > > > > the retailer with better > > > packing/shipping > > > > information.. maybe putting a sticker on the box to keep cool so > the > > > > delivery person would know to put the package in a shady place > > instead > > > of > > > > out in direct sunlight. > > > > > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles > > > > referenced in above reply are listed on the > > > right > > > > side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, > > > Month) > > > > > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] > > > On > > > > Behalf Of jan1213@ > > > > Sent: Saturday, June 20, 2009 7:17 AM > > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > > > Subject: [AquaticLife] Dr. Tims > > > > > > > > Dr. Tim's arrived yesterday...on my front porch in the heat...the > > dry > > > ice > > > > was liquid...How do I know this is still good......Jan How would I > > > test > > > > this? > > > > ------------------------------------ > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. > ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> > PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to > the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT > LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- > <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. > > If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of unsubscribing, you > can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the > home page. > > Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com to receive the digest, which > includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email > > Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com for the No E-Mail option where > you will still be able to read messages on the group and post replies. > > Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com to receive individual > e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 41185	From: Suzi	Date: 6/21/2009
Subject: Re: O/T Outlook Configuration, \\Steve//, was: Dr. Tims

Personally, I use message rules in both Windows Mail and Outlook. Everything not covered in the message rules or filters goes to my inbox or spam folder. ----- Have a great day! Suzi http://www.photoworks.com/members/Suzi ----- Original Message ----- From: Raymond Wetzel To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Sunday, June 21, 2009 4:18 PM Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: O/T Outlook Configuration, \\Steve//, was: Dr. Tims Dora, Yes, that's exactly what I'm saying, Uh-Huh! There's no reason for me to miss a single message that I prefer to open, as every one from the group has the Group Tag along with the Subject Tag, regardless of where an "Re:" might be placed -- besides having the the poster's email address (less the domain). Any other emails, personal or not, are listed also, with Subject Tag along with their complete address, to make it recognizeable. Any other email that I don't recognize by the address or Subject, or that is apparently spam gets deleted without even opening it. It's all laid out for me in my mailbox window, one under the other, etc. Why does it appear so incredulous to you, as it would seem by your message? It's extremely easy, so much so in its simplicity. I would think this is just normal practice with everyone's email delivery. Don't you have a mailbox window that lists your incoming (New) mail one below the other on chronological order? I do notice that if you want, you can sort your New Mail by Subject. I really haven't seen the need for that as all one needs to do (with the way I receive it), is to use your eyes to scan down the mail window and a same Subject Tag becomes immediately obvious (even if it may be several messages below). To check for posts in the same thread that may have been sent later, the "very difficult" chore of using the pointer the scroll down further is needed, but then, I would want to do that anyway to see any additional messages posted in that thread or a new one. I do see where color highlighting could come in handy as an assist, which I can see \\Steve// taking advantage of. As for setting it up to put in certain folders, I prefer to do that myself as needed. I may not be completely following your line of questioning, nor the reason why. I do appreciate your filling me in on some of the benefits of Outlook Express, and while I haven't used it, I don't see where it would be much more advantageous to me over the way I'm used to receiving my email. Many thanks for the briefing, Ray --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Dora Smith" <tiggernut24@...> wrote: > > Not exactly following. Ray, are you saying you read ALL your mail? Uh-uh! > > I find Outlook Express easier to work with than Outlook. I just click on > which column I want my mail sorted by at any given moment - usually, for me, > subject or when received. Subject puts MOST mail from the same mailing > list together. You can create "message rules" or filters to highlight > certain mail with colors or put it in certain folders. > > Yours, > Dora Smith > Austin, TX > tiggernut24@... > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@...> > To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com> > Sent: Sunday, June 21, 2009 11:03 AM > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: O/T Outlook Configuration, \\Steve//, was: > Dr. Tims > > > And then there is always the PROBLEM or threat, when typing a long reply in > an online forum and you hit the send button and the dang website freezes, or > due to Adobe Flash Ads, IE freezes up, or worse case scenario, your computer > freezes up and you lose your LONG REPLY. At least with Outlook, as I'm > typing a long reply, I have Outlook set to constantly save the reply as a > Draft so even if something should happen to cause my computer to freeze up, > I do not lose my work. I also this auto-draft-saving feature set up on > MS-Word, my blogs and most other programs where I might type long > letters/posts/replies. Auto-draft-saving is a God send, after having lost > stuff in the past. Gmail's web interface has the auto-draft-saving feature > as do most of the web interfaces of blogging sites, including my own. It's > a shame that Yahoo Groups does not have this feature. I know this has > happened to you in the past, as it has with me also, which is why I choose > to use Outlook to do my replying... especially since I tend to be > long-winded. Of course, others may say I'm just full of wind. LOL > > I guess I could start doing the Subject line sorting but I think that many > folks appreciate someone "seconding" a post, whether it just be "I agree > with _______" or by intentionally or inadvertently typing a similar reply > after the first reply was already posted. This is even more true if the OP > (Original Poster) is new and does not know the person replying and whether > their reply is completely accurate. At least if they see two or more > replies with similar information, they'll feel more comfortable relying on > said replies. > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right > side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) > > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On > Behalf Of Steve Szabo > Sent: Sunday, June 21, 2009 9:03 AM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: O/T Outlook Configuration, \\Steve//, was: > Dr. Tims > > Ray, > > There are time constraints I mentioned earlier. When I get home in the > evening, having already worked a 10-14 hour day, I have about 2 hours to go > through the +/-200 messages waiting. A lot of the message I get are not easy > reads, jokes and stuff like that, but do take some time to read since they > cover topics like networking (computer), other things computer in a > technical sense, certain legal topics, though I am not a lawyer, news > (usually an easy read) and fish/aquarium topics. There are a good number of > one off messages, i.e. those that are not threaded because they are > newsletters and other non-list correspondence. There will be between 500-800 > messages in my Inbox at any given time. There is some prioritizing, I'll go > through my Inbox to start, sorted by receipt, and I'll quickly remove the > Freecycle stuff, unless there is something I'm interested in, marking whole > groups of them as read and deleting in one fell swoop. While I am doing > that, I am also looking for messages that have direct bearing on one of my > businesses so I can handle them ASAP. Then I'll go through messages I have > previously marked to be handled by that day, and dispose of them. Then, I'll > go through the remaining new messages starting with the oldest one (as > received) and work my way through the list. If any of these messages are > list messages, I'll sort on subject to find if there is a thread, so I can > read the whole thread to determine if it is worth writing a reply. I am > aware, as you have seen, of how Yahoo! manages their list messages with > subject tags, and I will give a quick scroll to see if I see any others, but > if they are not close in the sort, more than two or three scroll wheel > turns, I go no further, and write a reply if I feel that one is needed. I'll > then go down the threads until I hit a single message and them put the sort > back to receipt, now working may way down the list with each message read > being received earlier than the one previously read, unless or until I hit > the earliest one, at which time I go back to reading the way I started, > until I hit the next threaded message. This allows me to spend only 2-3 > hours reading messages, writing replies and writing new messages. One may > notice that I tend to be more verbose on the weekends and holidays, simply > because I have more time. > > If I have to refer back to an earlier message, it is easy enough to do so. > If I need to research, my browser is always open, and a quick bookmark or > search usually enables me to find the answer I need. > > Over the last several years there has been a big drive to improve the > "stickiness" of a site, in other words to keep people at the site, rather > than having them do a hit and run. This is especially true of sites that > depend on advertising revenue for a big chunk of their income, and it is a > big selling point to advertisers that they court for a site to say that the > average visitor stays for 22 minutes for each visit to the site. It increase > the chance there will be a click on an ad, on purpose or inadvertently. > There are some sites out there with very good "forums" as they call them, > where the only way you can get and send messages is to visit the site and > read online and/or post online. > There is no mail functionality to them. I very seldom visit those sites, > unless I am looking for something specifically, and then it is only to take > rather than to participate. I just don't have the time, and I know I am not > the only one. I just don't have the time to hop from forum to forum each > night looking to see what is available. And, before someone like Lenny says > I should get a faster connection, I already have a connection that can > receive information than a lot of these sites will send it to me, with > 20mbps down. > > Back to Yahoo!. It simply is not efficient for me to work online with Yahoo! > and the way it handles replies with tags in the subject to those who receive > mails sent to outside destinations is deplorable. However, it is less > disruptive to my workflow than using the web interface. > > > > \\Steve// > > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] > On Behalf Of Raymond Wetzel > Sent: Sunday, June 21, 2009 7:49 AM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: O/T Outlook Configuration, \\Steve//, was: > Dr. Tims > > Hi \\Steve//, I appreciate the time it took you to explain all this -- > especially in a way that makes it absolutely clear to me (I think <g>). > I never realized there could be that much difference in the way subject > lines are received. Still, as the computer operator of the machine that > uses Outlook, you would be aware of this difference in the Subject line and > should know what to expect. And, knowing what to expect, once you see a > member posting a new question -- with it's particular, new Subject > heading/name -- and after realizing that it's coming through the "Aquatic > Life" Group -- wouldn't any other same-worded Subject headings alert you to > the fact that these additional messages are threads to the original poster's > message -- regardless of the position or presence of "Re:" or the presence > or absence of the tag "AquaticLife"? After all, you chose to use Outlook, > so you should know what to look for and what to expect. Any change in the > Subject line being sent by various members should not be a surprise to you > -- and please know I'm not trying to be contrary here, but just trying to > understand this further. > > Now getting back to Outlook's benefit of being able to use color, which is a > good advantage -- are there any other benefits of this? I too would like > the option of using color (can I presume you could use any option in your > toolbar? -- size, font, bold, etc.?), but to me I don't think it would > outweigh the advantage I have when I can compose a message right on the > website page. If I write a reply to a post that I need to refer back to > several times, I need to Minimize the page that I'm writing to see the > original message underneath. Then, I need to minimize that message to be > able to retrieve my own Minimized message to continue writing, and so on, > back and forth if the content of the first message is lengthy (or varied) > enough to make it difficult to remember it all (unless I print it out). > When I compose my message on the website, I just need to scroll down to the > original poster's message that's underneath mine to continually refer back > to it, if I need to -- it's always there in plain view -- no minimizing-- > maximizing > (normalizing) games. Maybe there's something I'm missing here, I don't > know. Ray > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Steve Szabo" <steve@> wrote: > > > > Ray, > > > > I was not referring to Lenny in my post, but myself. However, I know > > that Lenny also uses Outlook, and I am sure that many others do as > well. > > When I look at messages on line, there is no tag in the subject line. > > This tag "[AquaticLife]" is seen by those who have the mail delivered > to > > their mail server and then read it with a mail reader such as Outlook. > I > > note now that this tag does not show online, even if the message is > sent > > as a reply from outside the web site. It appears that Yahoo! strips it > > out. Now, for those of us not working within the online environment > > within the web site of the list, the original message will appear with > a > > subject line looking like this: > > [AquaticLife] Dr. Tims > > The original message's subject shown in the web site appears like > this: > > Dr. Tims > > Thus far, no problem, a thread has not developed. > > > > Now, if I was to reply to this message from my Outlook, the subject > that > > comes back is: > > RE: [AquaticLife] Dr. Tims > > While you would see it on the web site as: > > Re: Dr. Tims > > Outlook will sort just fine with the first format shown here, the " > RE: > > [AquaticLife] Dr. Tims" just fine because it will ignore the RE: at > the > > beginning. > > > > The problem occurs when someone relies on the web site. The subject > > online will still look normal to you, but what shows up in the Inbox > of > > a reader is very different. Online, you see: > > Re: Dr. Tims > > And you can sort the thread by that with no problem. They call it > > "group by topic" at Yahoo!. However, what I would see is: > > RE: [AquaticLife] Re: Dr. Tims > > And therein is the problem. For the sort, the first RE: is ignored, > but > > the second is not, therefore the message gets sorted on the "Re:" and > > not the "Dr.". This puts that portion of the thread into another > > grouping of messages, all that have that subject. And, it can even get > > worse. Sometimes there are multiple "Re:"s in the subject line after > > the tag. This then throws the message into another sort group. > > > > So, for us who work offline, there is a problem. We will not see all > the > > messages in a thread. We will read what is there, and reply to that. I > > am aware of this, but do not always have the time to look through the > > sort to see if there are any other pieces to the thread, thanks to > > Yahoo!'s crazy way of handling the messages going out since they can > be > > widely separated from each other. > > > > What can be done about this? Forcing everyone to use a mail reader is > > not feasible. Yahoo! will not allow it, they want people to read the > ads > > presented that help pay for the service. However, these tags are not > > mandatory. It may be time for those who run this list to take a look > at > > the use of the tags and whether the use of the tag here should be > > continued. Outlook gives me the option of using color to show messages > > from a particular source, but not all readers do this. Perhaps a poll > on > > the tag would give some useful information to those who would make the > > determination. There are lists here that do not have the tag in their > > subject line. > > > > \\Steve// > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] > > On Behalf Of Raymond Wetzel > > Sent: Saturday, June 20, 2009 6:46 PM > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Dr. Tims > > > > \\Steve//, I'm trying to follow you on this, but right off the bat I > > don't understand why you are bringing up "Outlook". Are you saying > that > > Lenny uses Outlook whereas most others don't? -- and that, that's > where > > the problem lies? I always reply by going to our group web site and > > enter my messages from there after opening the poster's message (which > > I'm doing right now with yours). Are you saying that some people > never > > see my messages on this Group? > > > > Since this is not the first occurance by far of redundant information > > being posted numerous times over the years, after I've already posted > > identical information, I've often wondered why anyone who would read > my > > info and continue to post the same information, seemingly as if > ignoring > > my posts -- or so it has appeared. I never understood the purpose for > > doing so, but if they've never seen the initial post then they would > > have no way of even knowing it existed, which would explain this > > behavior. I'm still at a loss though, to figure out how Yahoogroups > can > > allow for messaging by some members, that cannot be seen by other > > members, if that's what you're saying. > > > > I presume by "Tag" you mean Subject Line (???), I'm not quite sure, > but > > assume so. Here's where I don't understand why a message isn't being > > read. Doesn't our Group site name appear in the subject line > regardless > > of where it's placed? -- I think I understand you to say it may be in > > the beginning or at the end, but even so, with a short subject name, > it > > should still be viewable, or at least I would think so. Thanks for > your > > efforts in trying to explain this to me. Ray > > > > > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Steve Szabo" <steve@> wrote: > > > > > > Ray, > > > > > > The sort of messages in Outlook depends on whether the reply was > > written > > > online in the website, or if it was written elsewhere. The RE: is > > placed > > > differently--written outside the web site of the list it appears > prior > > > to the [Aquatic Life] tag, while written inside the list web site it > > > appears after the tag.. I've read what I thought to be a thread, and > > > replied, only to find out that the question has already been > > adequately > > > answered elsewhere in my sort, but separate from the thread I > replied > > > to. > > > > > > For those of you who do this strictly online, the tag is added when > > the > > > message is sent to a person's e-mail address (and what the heck are > > you > > > doing reading and replying to this stuff online without having the > > > flexibility that answering a post offline gives you?) > > > > > > \\Steve// > > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] > > > On Behalf Of Raymond Wetzel > > > Sent: Saturday, June 20, 2009 5:21 PM > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Dr. Tims > > > > > > Funny . . . I thought I remembered reading some of the nearly exact > > same > > > replies on this topic earlier this morning, somewhere around 9:30. > If > > I > > > didn't know any better, I'd have to think that you might not read > all > > > your emails for this Group -- or maybe just selectively read them > (<G> > > > LOL ROTFL). Ray > > > > > > > > > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" > > > <GoldLenny@> wrote: > > > > > > > > Add it to your running tank (with no fish), then wait a few hours > or > > > until > > > > the next day and then dose the tank with plain ammonia (3 drops > per > > > gallon) > > > > and test the tank for ammonia, nitrite, nitrate. Test again in a > > few > > > hours. > > > > Post results. Within 12-24 hours, all of the ammonia should have > > been > > > > converted to nitrate. If it did, then the Dr. Tim's was not > damaged > > > and is > > > > working. At that point, it's safe to add your fish. If you do > not > > > have > > > > your fish yet, then keep dosing the tank daily with the plain > > ammonia > > > to > > > > keep it "cycled" until you are ready to add the fish. > > > > > > > > When you took it out of the box, was it HOT or still reasonably > cool > > > (room > > > > temperature)? If it didn't get too much over room temperature, > then > > > it > > > > should not have been damaged. > > > > > > > > As far as the "dry ice was liquid", that's not possible since dry > > ice > > > is > > > > frozen CO2 and as it "melts" it actually turns into CO2 which is a > > > gas, so > > > > it doesn't actually melt, it evaporates as it warms up from its > > frozen > > > > state. If it was one of those freezer packs like blue ice or > > > something like > > > > that, then that is not dry ice. If it was the blue ice type > cooling > > > > product, was it warm to the touch or was it still at least at room > > > > temperature? > > > > > > > > Who did you order this from? Let other members know so they can > be > > > sure and > > > > INFORM that company to do a better job of packing in the future. > > You > > > should > > > > also contact them with your complaint that they did NOT use enough > > > cooling > > > > product and/or insulation. > > > > > > > > On a side note, Dr. Tim is actually a member of this group so he > may > > > chime > > > > in himself. You can also contact him directly by going to > > > > http://DrTimsAquatics.com or just emailing him at mailto:info@ and > > > > let him know the details of what happened, so he can maybe provide > > > > the retailer with better > > > packing/shipping > > > > information.. maybe putting a sticker on the box to keep cool so > the > > > > delivery person would know to put the package in a shady place > > instead > > > of > > > > out in direct sunlight. > > > > > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles > > > > referenced in above reply are listed on the > > > right > > > > side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, > > > Month) > > > > > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] > > > On > > > > Behalf Of jan1213@ > > > > Sent: Saturday, June 20, 2009 7:17 AM > > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > > > Subject: [AquaticLife] Dr. Tims > > > > > > > > Dr. Tim's arrived yesterday...on my front porch in the heat...the > > dry > > > ice > > > > was liquid...How do I know this is still good......Jan How would I > > > test > > > > this? > > > > ------------------------------------ > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. > ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> > PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to > the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT > LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- > <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. > > If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of unsubscribing, you > can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the > home page. > > Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com to receive the digest, which > includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email > > Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com for the No E-Mail option where > you will still be able to read messages on the group and post replies. > > Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com to receive individual > e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links > ------------------------------------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the home page. Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com to receive the digest, which includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com for the No E-Mail option where you will still be able to read messages on the group and post replies. Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com to receive individual e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 41186	From: Kurt Johnston	Date: 6/21/2009
Subject: 2009 Aquatics Swap Meet

The Aquarium Club of Lancaster County is happy to announce it is again holding an All Aquatic Swap Meet on Sunday October 4th, 2009 at the Eden Resort Inn in Lancaster PA. The cost of a table is once again only $20 per table. You can download a registration form at http://aclcpa.org/images/stories/2009swapmeetflyerwith_Rules.pdf or get more information from me via email at kaj41354@... or call me at 717-965-7763. Please remember that tables are assigned on a first in basis. If you know of someone else who may be interested, please forward this email to them. We really look forward seeing you at a bigger and better Swap Meet this year! Kurt Johnston Swap Meet Chairperson 717-965-7763

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 41187	From: Lisa	Date: 6/21/2009
Subject: Comming soon to a tank down under...'Blue Yabby'

I'm gonna be bringing a blue yabby home soon for my 22gal. What facts should i know beforehand to ensure it's health and longevity? Thanks Lisa

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 41188	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 6/21/2009
Subject: Re: Comming soon to a tank down under...'Blue Yabby'

Were you planning on keeping it by itself? Here's a few articles/threads, that I have in my favorites folder, about crawfish and most advise keeping them singly in their own tank but the top link is to an article/thread says they can be kept in a community tank with precautions. My personal experience is that the N'Awlins crawfish ate/killed the bullfrog tadpole and any fish that were tried. Blue Crawfish are just a color variant of the regular species, much like Albino fish are the same as their pigmented brethren. http://www.fishforums.net/index.php?showtopic=190162&hl= http://badmanstropicalfish.com/articles/article40.html GOOD ARTICLE http://www.anapsid.org/crayfish.html http://www.shrimpcrabsandcrayfish.co.uk/Shrimp.htm?crayfish.htm~mainFrame http://www.shrimpcrabsandcrayfish.co.uk/Shrimp.htm?crayfish.htm~mainFrame http://crayfish.byu.edu/ HUGE WEBSITE ALL ABOUT CRAWFISH. http://iz.carnegiemnh.org/crayfish/country_pages/species_by_country2.htm CARNEGIE MUSEUM OF NATURAL HISTORY WITH INFO FOR EVERY COUNTRY Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Lisa Sent: Sunday, June 21, 2009 10:55 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Comming soon to a tank down under...'Blue Yabby' I'm gonna be bringing a blue yabby home soon for my 22gal. What facts should i know beforehand to ensure it's health and longevity? Thanks Lisa ------------------------------------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the home page. Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com to receive the digest, which includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com for the No E-Mail option where you will still be able to read messages on the group and post replies. Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com to receive individual e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 41189	From: aaron102272	Date: 6/22/2009
Subject: The Correct Flow Rate For Your System

No not my site, thanks for asking, if it was I'm sure I would've been a lot more active here this past year the have some interesting online tools also ~ http://www.customaquatic.com/images/webstore/content/tank-tech.html I used the ~ Calculate The Correct Flow Rate For Your System ~ and my actual flow rate is double the suggested for a planted tank, apparently they need a lot less flow than say a reef system - do you think it makes a real difference to be over on the flow rate? I have Fluval 305 and it can be adjusted to decrease the flow --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@...> wrote: > > Aaron, > > Is that your site? If it isn't, then it's certainly NOT spam IMO. Heck, > even if it is your site and you have the best prices in the world, it's > worth sharing... maybe adding a disclaimer that it's your site. > > As long as you don't start using O-cea_n-P-ure in the Subject line. LOL > Exactly how many ways can the V and C words be spelled? LOL > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right > side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On > Behalf Of aaron102272 > Sent: Friday, June 19, 2009 6:01 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Subject: [AquaticLife] Off Topic? ~ Great Sale! @ www.CustomAquatic.com > > https://www.customaquatic.com/ > > 10% off all Saltwater & Freshwater Additives and Water Conditioners ~ Hurry > - Sale ends June 24th > > and for a limited time, > take an extra 25% off Oceanpure & Oceanpure PRO Salt > > This was my first time buying from this website, they had the lowest prices > I could find for products for my Planted Tank and the 4 Liter of Flourish > Excel (I could not find any other place that even offers the 4liter size) > > I apologize if you think this is spam, > however if you happen to know of a great website with the lowest prices > available and awesome sales, I hope you too would be willing to share that > info with me and the other members in the group that might be interested in > saving some money. > > Thanks for reading, > Aaron >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 41190	From: Jasmine	Date: 6/22/2009
Subject: Re: Bristlenose catfish - Photos uploaded

Hi Lenny I'm unsure as too their ages as we purchased them off some-one who needed to sell their fish in a hurry. I do suspect they are both females, the smallest one I would say is around 5cm long the other about 7cm long. I hope they are female, as I was wanting a breeding pair (hoping they might mate with my male) however, now i'm not so sure they will mate. Jasmine --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@...> wrote: > > The one male is obvious since he has the bristles on his nose. The other two do not. How old are they, or if you do not know, how long are they? I suspect they may both be females but most catfish are more difficult to sex and sometimes even difficult to identify until they grow out of their juvi stage. > > Before I bought my current Clown Pleco back in 2007, I was considering the BN plecos as well and I seem to remember that the juvi male BN's, at my LFS, were showing some bristle growth even at a fairly small size. > > Remember, whether you call it or see it referenced as Bushynose or > Bristlenose, it's still likely the same fish species or genera... one of the Ancistrus sp. that have the Bristlenose/Bushynose features. > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right > side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) > > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On > Behalf Of Jasmine > Sent: Sunday, June 21, 2009 2:32 AM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Subject: [AquaticLife] Bristlenose catfish - Photos uploaded > > Hi > > Just uploaded 3 photos. > > Two of the photos are of our recent addition to the tank. We purchased two > of these Bristlenoses, this one is the largest of the two but neither have > bristles that we can see. > > The last photo was taken back in January this year - this is the one I think > is the Bushy Nose Pleco > > What do you think? > > Jasmine >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 41191	From: Jasmine	Date: 6/22/2009
Subject: Re: Pelco verse Bristlenose

Hi Ray We believe it to be a female mainly because the angel fish that it seems to have paired off with – we believe to be a male angel. There are two reasons why we believe it to be a male: 1. Its dorsal fin can either be extended or contracted to look like a needle (probably the best way to describe it, and 2. On occasions when I have noticed it doing a poo, it tends to excrete toward the front of the angel and the angel we believe to be a female – well, they tend to excrete toward the back of the angel. I have been told that to sex an angel is best done by looking at their sex organs. Males face forward and females face backward. With regards to the dorsal fins, I have added 3 new photo's – these are not as clear though. Photo 1 - titled `Angels that have paired off #1' shows (what we believe to be) female on the left and male on the right. The angel on the right, you will notice its dorsal fin is expanded. Photo 2 - titled `Angels that have paired off #2' the same two angels. This time the dorsal fin on the yellow one is contracted in a needle like fashion. Photo 3 – titled `exiled angel' - this angel has been continually chased away once the other two paired off. We believe this one to be a male also as it does the same thing with its dorsal fin. The strange thing is, the yellow/silver stripped angel (from photo 3) can come out at night and not get harassed at all. It can swim quite freely BUT when the lights come on, it is chased. Jasmine --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Raymond Wetzel" <sevenspringss@...> wrote: > > Jasmine, Real nice fish photography, you must have a good camera to get good (sharp) close ups like this. Question: What makes you believe that your large Marble Angelfish is a female? Ray > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Jasmine" <adonaikam@> wrote: > > > > Thank you Lenny > > > > I've had a look at all the sites and yes I'm pretty sure its a Bristlenose pleco. > > > > I had fun tonight taking photos of my fish after I fed them. I have updated a few more photos. Marjority of which were of the bristlenose pleco - some nice close up shots. > > > > Jasmine > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@> wrote: > > > > > > I just looked at your picture and you definitely have a Bristlenose pleco > > > (catfish) a/k/a bushynose pleco (catfish). Many sites will call it a > > > Bristlenose catfish instead of pleco since pleco would suggest it's a H. > > > plecostomus, which it's not. > > > > > > A search on PlanetCatfish.com, one of the most extensive websites on the net > > > about all things catfish, has several species of Bristlenose catfish, as > > > well as albino variants but yours is not an albino so look at the below > > > profiles and click on the pictures and compare yours to find out which > > > Ancistrus species you have. > > > > > > http://www.planetcatfish.com/catelog/species.php?species_id=49 Ancistrus cf. > > > cirrhosus > > > > > > http://www.planetcatfish.com/catelog/species.php?species_id=152 Ancistrus > > > claro > > > > > > http://www.planetcatfish.com/catelog/species.php?species_id=221 Ancistrus > > > dolichopterus > > > > > > http://www.planetcatfish.com/catelog/species.php?species_id=48 Ancistrus > > > tamboensis > > > > > > These other reputable websites have even more species or variants listed. > > > > > > http://www.aquariumlife.net/profiles/plecostamus/bristle-nose-pleco/100049.a > > > sp Ancistrus temminckii > > > > > > This site is more about the generic Ancistrus sp. and has lots of comments > > > from other BN Pleco keepers. You'll see there are 3 pages of comments if > > > you want to read them all. Of course, check out comments before taking them > > > as fact. > > > > > > http://www.aquahobby.com/gallery/e_bristle.php > > > > > > Let us know which one you have. If you can't figure it out, then you will > > > need to get better pictures and post them here and see if one of us can. > > > Take front and side pics with the fins extended, if possible. I hear that > > > playing Madonna's Vogue song will cause people and fish to "strike a pose". > > > ;-) > > > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > > > (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right > > > side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) > > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On > > > Behalf Of Jasmine > > > Sent: Saturday, June 20, 2009 11:51 PM > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Pelco verse Bristlenose > > > > > > Hi Lenny > > > > > > It was all me, I spelt it wrong. I simply spelt it phonetically the way I > > > pronounce it. > > > > > > From viewing the hyperlinks you provided and reading what you wrote – it > > > appears I may have a Bushy Nose Pleco. I got my camera and went to take a > > > photo but, it was in hiding. It's been hiding a lot over the last couple of > > > weeks and has only just started venturing out. > > > > > > I can't be sure how long we have had him for, I did find a photo of him > > > which was taken back in January this year (its a poor shot but I can make > > > out it was him). When I got him he already had bristles. I don't think we > > > have had him more than a year. > > > > > > I'll try and get a shot and post it for you. In the mean time, I did manage > > > to get a good shot of one of our newest BN – I just need to recharge the > > > battery on the camera before I can do anything  > > > > > > Jasmine > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@> > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > I'm not sure if you accidentally misspelled Pleco when you referred to > > > > it as Pelco but that is a common internet myth about this group of fish. > > > > According to the myth, if you spell Pleco as Pleco and not misspell it > > > > as Pelco or Pl*co or Plec, your Pleco will die. PLECO, PLECO, PLECO, > > > > PLECO, PLECO, PLECO, PLECO. I just checked and my Clown Pleco is > > > > still fine. ;-) > > > > > > > > The term or common name, Pleco, should have probably been called > > > > "Suckermouth Catfish" instead of Pleco, but I guess Pleco is nice and > > > short. > > > > The general term Pleco probably became the most commonly used term as > > > > it is short for Hypostomus Plecostomus which is the one of the several > > > > species that are commonly referred to as "Common Pleco" in pet stores. > > > > Other species included and commonly sold as "Common Plecos" are > > > > Pterygoplichthys pardalis, Acipenser plecostomus, Hypostomus > > > > punctatus, Liposarcus multiradiatus, Liposarcus pardalis, Plecostomus > > > plecostomus (from: > > > > http://www.aquariumlife.net/profiles/common-plecostomus/100173.asp). > > > > Some of these scientific names may have changed which is a common > > > > happening in the catfish world in recent history. > > > > > > > > Unfortunately for the "Common Pleco" fish and the fish keeper, "Common > > > > Plecos" grow to 18" to 24" long and are not really suitable for the > > > > majority of aquariums. A single fish needs at least a 6' to 8' long > > > > tank and at least 75G of water volume for itself. Most are kept in > > > > undersized tanks and never reach their full potential or live a full > > > > life due to the stunting that ensues from being kept in undersized tanks. > > > > > > > > The Bristlenose Pleco, often referred to as BN Pleco, is actually from > > > > a different Genera than the Hypostomus Plecostomus. The species name > > > > for BN Plecos is Ancistrus dolichopterus (the last time I checked) BUT > > > > both of these Genera and several others all fall under the family of > > > > Loricariidae or "Suckermouth Catfish" > > > > http://fish.mongabay.com/loricariidae.htm which also includes a profile > > > for your Bristlenose Pleco on the page. > > > > > > > > You are probably correct that you have a male Bristlnose Pleco as the > > > > females do not have the "bristles on their snouts or the bristles are > > > > much less pronounced. How long have you had yours. They normally > > > > grow to around 6" and according to my article on "How Long Should Your > > > > Fish Live", they should live around 20 years. > > > > http://goldlenny.blogspot.com/2007/02/how-long-should-aquarium-fish-li > > > > ve.htm > > > > l > > > > > > > > You will have to give me a link to what you saw pictures of, described > > > > as Pelco, but I'm sure it was someone falling for the myth and > > > > misspelling the name of their Bristlenose Pleco as Pelco. > > > > > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles > > > > referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically > > > > under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] > > > > On Behalf Of Jasmine > > > > Sent: Saturday, June 20, 2009 9:28 PM > > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > > > Subject: [AquaticLife] Pelco verse Bristlenose > > > > > > > > Can anyone tell me what the difference is between these two? > > > > > > > > Is it just terminology or is there a difference? > > > > > > > > I have what I've always called a male bristlenose - its about 5" and has > > > > bristles on its head. I have seen a few photos of Pelco's and they look > > > so > > > > much like my bristlenose. > > > > Thanks > > > > Jasmine > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ------------------------------------ > > > > > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. > > > ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> > > > PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to > > > the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT > > > LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- > > > <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. > > > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. > > > > > > If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of unsubscribing, you > > > can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the > > > home page. > > > > > > Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com to receive the digest, which > > > includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email > > > > > > Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com for the No E-Mail option where > > > you will still be able to read messages on the group and post replies. > > > > > > Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com to receive individual > > > e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 41192	From: Raymond Wetzel	Date: 6/22/2009
Subject: Re: Pelco verse Bristlenose

Hi Jasmine, The other Angelfish that you posted yesterday, that you feel is a female is actually the male. This Angelfish that you just posted today, in the right forefront (with the male in the left background) in both recent photos, is the female. You have them reversed in you diagnosis of their sex. If anyone told you about the dorsal fin's ability as being contractable in Angelfish as a trait in determining male Angels, they are completely wrong. This ability to contract or widen the Dorsal fin is present in many Angels, to varying degrees. The main reason why your other Angelfish (the one you believe to be a female) is not seen to show this trait is because it's Dorsal fin is bent. As for the position of the anus in Angels, while the pores for the breeding tubes of fish are located to the rear of the anus, the male's anus is located farther back than the female's -- somewhat closer to his breeding tube. If you saw one of these two Angelfish excreting towards the back of the Angelfish's body, this is just one more reason why it would be a male. In Cichlids, Angelfish included, if you were to net and remove each fish from the tank and invert it to observe the position and appearance of their sexual organs in relation to their anus (this procedure is called "venting"), you would find a figure-8 configuration of these two openings in the male, showing you the close proximity of his gential pore to his anal pore, as the borders of both of these pores join. In the female, you would see two distinctly separate pore openings, with the anal pore located a short distance away (slightly forward) from her gential opening, creating a gap of plain body tissue (skin) between them -- this area would appear as two separate "O's" as "O O" (rather than as "OO" in the male). So by this, you should be able to see that it's the male that has been excreting more towards the rear of his body. "Venting" can best be seen in larger Cichlids, such as Oscars, but is observable in all Cichlids, displaying their sexual differences. If you can see the male's breeding tube facing forward, and the female's breeding tube facing backward, you're GOOD! Granted, there is a slight slant to these tubes when extended, but so slight in Angelfish that it's barely perceptable. For all intents and purposes, when these fish are breeding, both of their tubes appear to extend straight down. The female's ovipositor is thicker and blunt on the end, whereas the male's breeding tube is conical in shape, coming to a point. As for the "exiled" Angelfish, as it's position in the photo does not lend to a good view in determining its sex, I really can't tell if it's a male or female, but the fact that it will contract or expand its Dorsal fin does not preclude its being a female. The much mellower behavior of the pair towards the "exiled" (yellow, silver-striped) Angel at night when the lighting is more subdued is not strange at all -- and can be expected -- just as much as when the lights are on during the day, that the pair harasses this lone Angelfish. For this same reason, while Angels (and Angelfish pairs) will all behave somewhat differently within the confines of the extablished behavior of this species, it's always best to breed these fish in more subdued light -- unless they are being housed in a much larger than ordinary tank. The sense of sight in fishes is one of the prime (if not, THE prime) source of these animals' environmental stimuli input. The greater the light intensity, the greater is the "glaring" of their view of their surroundings including that of their conspecifics as a stimulus to their brain and what (and how) they perceive their conspecifics; this includes the stimuli they receive as how they perceive their mates as well. If the image they are receiving of an intruder conspecific, such as this lone Angelfish, is especially glaring from brighter lighting, the stimuli of the presence of this fish in their (the pair's) vicinity is increasingly strong -- to the point the it can be interpreted as challenging. Likewise, for a pair which may be ordinarily high-strung towards each other in behavior, compared to the norm of Angelfish behavior. With such pairs, it's especially important not to keep bright lights on them. Such intense visual stimuli as a "glaring" image of their mate can be interpreted as challenging. More subdued lighting always defuses such a situation, regardless of any Angelfish pair's individual behavior. Ray P.S.: Please reread my recent post on sexing Angelfish. You should be able to see the obvious traits I've pointed out in both sexes as relates to your pair. --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Jasmine" <adonaikam@...> wrote: > > Hi Ray > > We believe it to be a female mainly because the angel fish that it seems to have paired off with – we believe to be a male angel. There are two reasons why we believe it to be a male: > 1. Its dorsal fin can either be extended or contracted to look like a needle (probably the best way to describe it, and > 2. On occasions when I have noticed it doing a poo, it tends to excrete toward the front of the angel and the angel we believe to be a female – well, they tend to excrete toward the back of the angel. > > I have been told that to sex an angel is best done by looking at their sex organs. Males face forward and females face backward. > With regards to the dorsal fins, I have added 3 new photo's – these are not as clear though. > > Photo 1 - titled `Angels that have paired off #1' shows (what we believe to be) female on the left and male on the right. The angel on the right, you will notice its dorsal fin is expanded. > > Photo 2 - titled `Angels that have paired off #2' the same two angels. This time the dorsal fin on the yellow one is contracted in a needle like fashion. > > Photo 3 – titled `exiled angel' - this angel has been continually chased away once the other two paired off. We believe this one to be a male also as it does the same thing with its dorsal fin. > > The strange thing is, the yellow/silver stripped angel (from photo 3) can come out at night and not get harassed at all. It can swim quite freely BUT when the lights come on, it is chased. > > Jasmine > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Raymond Wetzel" <sevenspringss@> wrote: > > > > Jasmine, Real nice fish photography, you must have a good camera to get good (sharp) close ups like this. Question: What makes you believe that your large Marble Angelfish is a female? Ray > > > > > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Jasmine" <adonaikam@> wrote: > > > > > > Thank you Lenny > > > > > > I've had a look at all the sites and yes I'm pretty sure its a Bristlenose pleco. > > > > > > I had fun tonight taking photos of my fish after I fed them. I have updated a few more photos. Marjority of which were of the bristlenose pleco - some nice close up shots. > > > > > > Jasmine > > > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@> wrote: > > > > > > > > I just looked at your picture and you definitely have a Bristlenose pleco > > > > (catfish) a/k/a bushynose pleco (catfish). Many sites will call it a > > > > Bristlenose catfish instead of pleco since pleco would suggest it's a H. > > > > plecostomus, which it's not. > > > > > > > > A search on PlanetCatfish.com, one of the most extensive websites on the net > > > > about all things catfish, has several species of Bristlenose catfish, as > > > > well as albino variants but yours is not an albino so look at the below > > > > profiles and click on the pictures and compare yours to find out which > > > > Ancistrus species you have. > > > > > > > > http://www.planetcatfish.com/catelog/species.php?species_id=49 Ancistrus cf. > > > > cirrhosus > > > > > > > > http://www.planetcatfish.com/catelog/species.php?species_id=152 Ancistrus > > > > claro > > > > > > > > http://www.planetcatfish.com/catelog/species.php?species_id=221 Ancistrus > > > > dolichopterus > > > > > > > > http://www.planetcatfish.com/catelog/species.php?species_id=48 Ancistrus > > > > tamboensis > > > > > > > > These other reputable websites have even more species or variants listed. > > > > > > > > http://www.aquariumlife.net/profiles/plecostamus/bristle-nose-pleco/100049.a > > > > sp Ancistrus temminckii > > > > > > > > This site is more about the generic Ancistrus sp. and has lots of comments > > > > from other BN Pleco keepers. You'll see there are 3 pages of comments if > > > > you want to read them all. Of course, check out comments before taking them > > > > as fact. > > > > > > > > http://www.aquahobby.com/gallery/e_bristle.php > > > > > > > > Let us know which one you have. If you can't figure it out, then you will > > > > need to get better pictures and post them here and see if one of us can. > > > > Take front and side pics with the fins extended, if possible. I hear that > > > > playing Madonna's Vogue song will cause people and fish to "strike a pose". > > > > ;-) > > > > > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > > > > (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right > > > > side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) > > > > > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On > > > > Behalf Of Jasmine > > > > Sent: Saturday, June 20, 2009 11:51 PM > > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > > > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Pelco verse Bristlenose > > > > > > > > Hi Lenny > > > > > > > > It was all me, I spelt it wrong. I simply spelt it phonetically the way I > > > > pronounce it. > > > > > > > > From viewing the hyperlinks you provided and reading what you wrote – it > > > > appears I may have a Bushy Nose Pleco. I got my camera and went to take a > > > > photo but, it was in hiding. It's been hiding a lot over the last couple of > > > > weeks and has only just started venturing out. > > > > > > > > I can't be sure how long we have had him for, I did find a photo of him > > > > which was taken back in January this year (its a poor shot but I can make > > > > out it was him). When I got him he already had bristles. I don't think we > > > > have had him more than a year. > > > > > > > > I'll try and get a shot and post it for you. In the mean time, I did manage > > > > to get a good shot of one of our newest BN – I just need to recharge the > > > > battery on the camera before I can do anything  > > > > > > > > Jasmine > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@> > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > I'm not sure if you accidentally misspelled Pleco when you referred to > > > > > it as Pelco but that is a common internet myth about this group of fish. > > > > > According to the myth, if you spell Pleco as Pleco and not misspell it > > > > > as Pelco or Pl*co or Plec, your Pleco will die. PLECO, PLECO, PLECO, > > > > > PLECO, PLECO, PLECO, PLECO. I just checked and my Clown Pleco is > > > > > still fine. ;-) > > > > > > > > > > The term or common name, Pleco, should have probably been called > > > > > "Suckermouth Catfish" instead of Pleco, but I guess Pleco is nice and > > > > short. > > > > > The general term Pleco probably became the most commonly used term as > > > > > it is short for Hypostomus Plecostomus which is the one of the several > > > > > species that are commonly referred to as "Common Pleco" in pet stores. > > > > > Other species included and commonly sold as "Common Plecos" are > > > > > Pterygoplichthys pardalis, Acipenser plecostomus, Hypostomus > > > > > punctatus, Liposarcus multiradiatus, Liposarcus pardalis, Plecostomus > > > > plecostomus (from: > > > > > http://www.aquariumlife.net/profiles/common-plecostomus/100173.asp). > > > > > Some of these scientific names may have changed which is a common > > > > > happening in the catfish world in recent history. > > > > > > > > > > Unfortunately for the "Common Pleco" fish and the fish keeper, "Common > > > > > Plecos" grow to 18" to 24" long and are not really suitable for the > > > > > majority of aquariums. A single fish needs at least a 6' to 8' long > > > > > tank and at least 75G of water volume for itself. Most are kept in > > > > > undersized tanks and never reach their full potential or live a full > > > > > life due to the stunting that ensues from being kept in undersized tanks. > > > > > > > > > > The Bristlenose Pleco, often referred to as BN Pleco, is actually from > > > > > a different Genera than the Hypostomus Plecostomus. The species name > > > > > for BN Plecos is Ancistrus dolichopterus (the last time I checked) BUT > > > > > both of these Genera and several others all fall under the family of > > > > > Loricariidae or "Suckermouth Catfish" > > > > > http://fish.mongabay.com/loricariidae.htm which also includes a profile > > > > for your Bristlenose Pleco on the page. > > > > > > > > > > You are probably correct that you have a male Bristlnose Pleco as the > > > > > females do not have the "bristles on their snouts or the bristles are > > > > > much less pronounced. How long have you had yours. They normally > > > > > grow to around 6" and according to my article on "How Long Should Your > > > > > Fish Live", they should live around 20 years. > > > > > http://goldlenny.blogspot.com/2007/02/how-long-should-aquarium-fish-li > > > > > ve.htm > > > > > l > > > > > > > > > > You will have to give me a link to what you saw pictures of, described > > > > > as Pelco, but I'm sure it was someone falling for the myth and > > > > > misspelling the name of their Bristlenose Pleco as Pelco. > > > > > > > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > > > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles > > > > > referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically > > > > > under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] > > > > > On Behalf Of Jasmine > > > > > Sent: Saturday, June 20, 2009 9:28 PM > > > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > > > > Subject: [AquaticLife] Pelco verse Bristlenose > > > > > > > > > > Can anyone tell me what the difference is between these two? > > > > > > > > > > Is it just terminology or is there a difference? > > > > > > > > > > I have what I've always called a male bristlenose - its about 5" and has > > > > > bristles on its head. I have seen a few photos of Pelco's and they look > > > > so > > > > > much like my bristlenose. > > > > > Thanks > > > > > Jasmine > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ------------------------------------ > > > > > > > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. > > > > ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> > > > > PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to > > > > the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT > > > > LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- > > > > <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. > > > > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. > > > > > > > > If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of unsubscribing, you > > > > can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the > > > > home page. > > > > > > > > Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com to receive the digest, which > > > > includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email > > > > > > > > Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com for the No E-Mail option where > > > > you will still be able to read messages on the group and post replies. > > > > > > > > Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com to receive individual > > > > e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > > > > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 41193	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 6/22/2009
Subject: Re: The Correct Flow Rate For Your System

I think it depends on the fish and plants. If the fish and plants are from fast moving waters, then over-filtration/circulation is OK. If the fish and plants are from slow moving or stagnant waters, then over-filtration/circulation might be detrimental to the overall health of the fish and plants. If one has a community tank with a mixture of fish and plants from many biotopes, then something in the middle would be best. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of aaron102272 Sent: Monday, June 22, 2009 2:04 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] The Correct Flow Rate For Your System No not my site, thanks for asking, if it was I'm sure I would've been a lot more active here this past year the have some interesting online tools also ~ http://www.customaquatic.com/images/webstore/content/tank-tech.html I used the ~ Calculate The Correct Flow Rate For Your System ~ and my actual flow rate is double the suggested for a planted tank, apparently they need a lot less flow than say a reef system - do you think it makes a real difference to be over on the flow rate? I have Fluval 305 and it can be adjusted to decrease the flow --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@...> wrote: > > Aaron, > > Is that your site? If it isn't, then it's certainly NOT spam IMO. > Heck, even if it is your site and you have the best prices in the > world, it's worth sharing... maybe adding a disclaimer that it's your site. > > As long as you don't start using O-cea_n-P-ure in the Subject line. > LOL Exactly how many ways can the V and C words be spelled? LOL > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles > referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically > under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] > On Behalf Of aaron102272 > Sent: Friday, June 19, 2009 6:01 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Subject: [AquaticLife] Off Topic? ~ Great Sale! @ > www.CustomAquatic.com > > https://www.customaquatic.com/ > > 10% off all Saltwater & Freshwater Additives and Water Conditioners ~ > Hurry > - Sale ends June 24th > > and for a limited time, > take an extra 25% off Oceanpure & Oceanpure PRO Salt > > This was my first time buying from this website, they had the lowest > prices I could find for products for my Planted Tank and the 4 Liter > of Flourish Excel (I could not find any other place that even offers > the 4liter size) > > I apologize if you think this is spam, however if you happen to know > of a great website with the lowest prices available and awesome sales, > I hope you too would be willing to share that info with me and the > other members in the group that might be interested in saving some > money. > > Thanks for reading, > Aaron > ------------------------------------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the home page. Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com to receive the digest, which includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com for the No E-Mail option where you will still be able to read messages on the group and post replies. Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com to receive individual e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 41194	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 6/22/2009
Subject: Now: About Angel fish Re: [AquaticLife] Was: Pelco verse Bristlenos

I thank you for all the info you've recently posted on Angel's Ray, I myself went to my tank to see if I could see the differences pointed out and most of them were present in my pair. The only one that I could not see was the "hump" on my male, both of mine have a slight hump but nothing pronounced at all. I also notice this ability to contract or widen their dorsal fin, but only my male does it as my female appears to have a bent dorsal fin as well. Is there a size difference between males/females? My male is bigger but he is also older than my female so I always figured she would catch up some day in size. I do notice that the male is thicker through the middle than the female (wider if you want to say), the male's head is wider than the female's. Amber Raymond Wetzel wrote: > > > Hi Jasmine, The other Angelfish that you posted yesterday, that you > feel is a female is actually the male. This Angelfish that you just > posted today, in the right forefront (with the male in the left > background) in both recent photos, is the female. You have them > reversed in you diagnosis of their sex. If anyone told you about the > dorsal fin's ability as being contractable in Angelfish as a trait in > determining male Angels, they are completely wrong. This ability to > contract or widen the Dorsal fin is present in many Angels, to varying > degrees. The main reason why your other Angelfish (the one you believe > to be a female) is not seen to show this trait is because it's Dorsal > fin is bent. > > As for the position of the anus in Angels, while the pores for the > breeding tubes of fish are located to the rear of the anus, the male's > anus is located farther back than the female's -- somewhat closer to > his breeding tube. If you saw one of these two Angelfish excreting > towards the back of the Angelfish's body, this is just one more reason > why it would be a male. > > In Cichlids, Angelfish included, if you were to net and remove each > fish from the tank and invert it to observe the position and > appearance of their sexual organs in relation to their anus (this > procedure is called "venting"), you would find a figure-8 > configuration of these two openings in the male, showing you the close > proximity of his gential pore to his anal pore, as the borders of both > of these pores join. In the female, you would see two distinctly > separate pore openings, with the anal pore located a short distance > away (slightly forward) from her gential opening, creating a gap of > plain body tissue (skin) between them -- this area would appear as two > separate "O's" as "O O" (rather than as "OO" in the male). So by this, > you should be able to see that it's the male that has been excreting > more towards the rear of his body. "Venting" can best be seen in > larger Cichlids, such as Oscars, but is observable in all Cichlids, > displaying their sexual differences. > > If you can see the male's breeding tube facing forward, and the > female's breeding tube facing backward, you're GOOD! Granted, there is > a slight slant to these tubes when extended, but so slight in > Angelfish that it's barely perceptable. For all intents and purposes, > when these fish are breeding, both of their tubes appear to extend > straight down. The female's ovipositor is thicker and blunt on the > end, whereas the male's breeding tube is conical in shape, coming to a > point. > > As for the "exiled" Angelfish, as it's position in the photo does not > lend to a good view in determining its sex, I really can't tell if > it's a male or female, but the fact that it will contract or expand > its Dorsal fin does not preclude its being a female. > > The much mellower behavior of the pair towards the "exiled" (yellow, > silver-striped) Angel at night when the lighting is more subdued is > not strange at all -- and can be expected -- just as much as when the > lights are on during the day, that the pair harasses this lone > Angelfish. For this same reason, while Angels (and Angelfish pairs) > will all behave somewhat differently within the confines of the > extablished behavior of this species, it's always best to breed these > fish in more subdued light -- unless they are being housed in a much > larger than ordinary tank. The sense of sight in fishes is one of the > prime (if not, THE prime) source of these animals' environmental > stimuli input. The greater the light intensity, the greater is the > "glaring" of their view of their surroundings including that of their > conspecifics as a stimulus to their brain and what (and how) they > perceive their conspecifics; this includes the stimuli they receive as > how they perceive their mates as well. > > If the image they are receiving of an intruder conspecific, such as > this lone Angelfish, is especially glaring from brighter lighting, the > stimuli of the presence of this fish in their (the pair's) vicinity is > increasingly strong -- to the point the it can be interpreted as > challenging. Likewise, for a pair which may be ordinarily high-strung > towards each other in behavior, compared to the norm of Angelfish > behavior. With such pairs, it's especially important not to keep > bright lights on them. Such intense visual stimuli as a "glaring" > image of their mate can be interpreted as challenging. More subdued > lighting always defuses such a situation, regardless of any Angelfish > pair's individual behavior. Ray > > P.S.: Please reread my recent post on sexing Angelfish. You should be > able to see the obvious traits I've pointed out in both sexes as > relates to your pair. > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>, "Jasmine" <adonaikam@...> wrote: > > > > Hi Ray > > > > We believe it to be a female mainly because the angel fish that it > seems to have paired off with – we believe to be a male angel. There > are two reasons why we believe it to be a male: > > 1. Its dorsal fin can either be extended or contracted to look like > a needle (probably the best way to describe it, and > > 2. On occasions when I have noticed it doing a poo, it tends to > excrete toward the front of the angel and the angel we believe to be a > female – well, they tend to excrete toward the back of the angel. > > > > I have been told that to sex an angel is best done by looking at > their sex organs. Males face forward and females face backward. > > With regards to the dorsal fins, I have added 3 new photo's – these > are not as clear though. > > > > Photo 1 - titled `Angels that have paired off #1' shows (what we > believe to be) female on the left and male on the right. The angel on > the right, you will notice its dorsal fin is expanded. > > > > Photo 2 - titled `Angels that have paired off #2' the same two > angels. This time the dorsal fin on the yellow one is contracted in a > needle like fashion. > > > > Photo 3 – titled `exiled angel' - this angel has been continually > chased away once the other two paired off. We believe this one to be a > male also as it does the same thing with its dorsal fin. > > > > The strange thing is, the yellow/silver stripped angel (from photo > 3) can come out at night and not get harassed at all. It can swim > quite freely BUT when the lights come on, it is chased. > > > > Jasmine > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>, "Raymond Wetzel" > <sevenspringss@> wrote: > > > > > > Jasmine, Real nice fish photography, you must have a good camera > to get good (sharp) close ups like this. Question: What makes you > believe that your large Marble Angelfish is a female? Ray > > > > > > > > > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>, "Jasmine" <adonaikam@> wrote: > > > > > > > > Thank you Lenny > > > > > > > > I've had a look at all the sites and yes I'm pretty sure its a > Bristlenose pleco. > > > > > > > > I had fun tonight taking photos of my fish after I fed them. I > have updated a few more photos. Marjority of which were of the > bristlenose pleco - some nice close up shots. > > > > > > > > Jasmine > > > > > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>, "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" > <GoldLenny@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > I just looked at your picture and you definitely have a > Bristlenose pleco > > > > > (catfish) a/k/a bushynose pleco (catfish). Many sites will > call it a > > > > > Bristlenose catfish instead of pleco since pleco would suggest > it's a H. > > > > > plecostomus, which it's not. > > > > > > > > > > A search on PlanetCatfish.com, one of the most extensive > websites on the net > > > > > about all things catfish, has several species of Bristlenose > catfish, as > > > > > well as albino variants but yours is not an albino so look at > the below > > > > > profiles and click on the pictures and compare yours to find > out which > > > > > Ancistrus species you have. > > > > > > > > > > http://www.planetcatfish.com/catelog/species.php?species_id=49 > <http://www.planetcatfish.com/catelog/species.php?species_id=49> > Ancistrus cf. > > > > > cirrhosus > > > > > > > > > > > http://www.planetcatfish.com/catelog/species.php?species_id=152 > <http://www.planetcatfish.com/catelog/species.php?species_id=152> > Ancistrus > > > > > claro > > > > > > > > > > > http://www.planetcatfish.com/catelog/species.php?species_id=221 > <http://www.planetcatfish.com/catelog/species.php?species_id=221> > Ancistrus > > > > > dolichopterus > > > > > > > > > > http://www.planetcatfish.com/catelog/species.php?species_id=48 > <http://www.planetcatfish.com/catelog/species.php?species_id=48> Ancistrus > > > > > tamboensis > > > > > > > > > > These other reputable websites have even more species or > variants listed. > > > > > > > > > > > http://www.aquariumlife.net/profiles/plecostamus/bristle-nose-pleco/100049.a > <http://www.aquariumlife.net/profiles/plecostamus/bristle-nose-pleco/100049.a> > > > > > sp Ancistrus temminckii > > > > > > > > > > This site is more about the generic Ancistrus sp. and has lots > of comments > > > > > from other BN Pleco keepers. You'll see there are 3 pages of > comments if > > > > > you want to read them all. Of course, check out comments > before taking them > > > > > as fact. > > > > > > > > > > http://www.aquahobby.com/gallery/e_bristle.php > <http://www.aquahobby.com/gallery/e_bristle.php> > > > > > > > > > > Let us know which one you have. If you can't figure it out, > then you will > > > > > need to get better pictures and post them here and see if one > of us can. > > > > > Take front and side pics with the fins extended, if possible. > I hear that > > > > > playing Madonna's Vogue song will cause people and fish to > "strike a pose". > > > > > ;-) > > > > > > > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > > > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > > > (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on > the right > > > > > side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by > Year, Month) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On > > > > > Behalf Of Jasmine > > > > > Sent: Saturday, June 20, 2009 11:51 PM > > > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Pelco verse Bristlenose > > > > > > > > > > Hi Lenny > > > > > > > > > > It was all me, I spelt it wrong. I simply spelt it > phonetically the way I > > > > > pronounce it. > > > > > > > > > > From viewing the hyperlinks you provided and reading what you > wrote – it > > > > > appears I may have a Bushy Nose Pleco. I got my camera and > went to take a > > > > > photo but, it was in hiding. It's been hiding a lot over the > last couple of > > > > > weeks and has only just started venturing out. > > > > > > > > > > I can't be sure how long we have had him for, I did find a > photo of him > > > > > which was taken back in January this year (its a poor shot but > I can make > > > > > out it was him). When I got him he already had bristles. I > don't think we > > > > > have had him more than a year. > > > > > > > > > > I'll try and get a shot and post it for you. In the mean time, > I did manage > > > > > to get a good shot of one of our newest BN – I just need to > recharge the > > > > > battery on the camera before I can do anything  > > > > > > > > > > Jasmine > > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>, "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" > <GoldLenny@> > > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > I'm not sure if you accidentally misspelled Pleco when you > referred to > > > > > > it as Pelco but that is a common internet myth about this > group of fish. > > > > > > According to the myth, if you spell Pleco as Pleco and not > misspell it > > > > > > as Pelco or Pl*co or Plec, your Pleco will die. PLECO, > PLECO, PLECO, > > > > > > PLECO, PLECO, PLECO, PLECO. I just checked and my Clown > Pleco is > > > > > > still fine. ;-) > > > > > > > > > > > > The term or common name, Pleco, should have probably been > called > > > > > > "Suckermouth Catfish" instead of Pleco, but I guess Pleco is > nice and > > > > > short. > > > > > > The general term Pleco probably became the most commonly > used term as > > > > > > it is short for Hypostomus Plecostomus which is the one of > the several > > > > > > species that are commonly referred to as "Common Pleco" in > pet stores. > > > > > > Other species included and commonly sold as "Common Plecos" are > > > > > > Pterygoplichthys pardalis, Acipenser plecostomus, Hypostomus > > > > > > punctatus, Liposarcus multiradiatus, Liposarcus pardalis, > Plecostomus > > > > > plecostomus (from: > > > > > > > http://www.aquariumlife.net/profiles/common-plecostomus/100173.asp > <http://www.aquariumlife.net/profiles/common-plecostomus/100173.asp>). > > > > > > Some of these scientific names may have changed which is a > common > > > > > > happening in the catfish world in recent history. > > > > > > > > > > > > Unfortunately for the "Common Pleco" fish and the fish > keeper, "Common > > > > > > Plecos" grow to 18" to 24" long and are not really suitable > for the > > > > > > majority of aquariums. A single fish needs at least a 6' to > 8' long > > > > > > tank and at least 75G of water volume for itself. Most are > kept in > > > > > > undersized tanks and never reach their full potential or > live a full > > > > > > life due to the stunting that ensues from being kept in > undersized tanks. > > > > > > > > > > > > The Bristlenose Pleco, often referred to as BN Pleco, is > actually from > > > > > > a different Genera than the Hypostomus Plecostomus. The > species name > > > > > > for BN Plecos is Ancistrus dolichopterus (the last time I > checked) BUT > > > > > > both of these Genera and several others all fall under the > family of > > > > > > Loricariidae or "Suckermouth Catfish" > > > > > > http://fish.mongabay.com/loricariidae.htm > <http://fish.mongabay.com/loricariidae.htm> which also includes a profile > > > > > for your Bristlenose Pleco on the page. > > > > > > > > > > > > You are probably correct that you have a male Bristlnose > Pleco as the > > > > > > females do not have the "bristles on their snouts or the > bristles are > > > > > > much less pronounced. How long have you had yours. They > normally > > > > > > grow to around 6" and according to my article on "How Long > Should Your > > > > > > Fish Live", they should live around 20 years. > > > > > > > http://goldlenny.blogspot.com/2007/02/how-long-should-aquarium-fish-li > <http://goldlenny.blogspot.com/2007/02/how-long-should-aquarium-fish-li> > > > > > > ve.htm > > > > > > l > > > > > > > > > > > > You will have to give me a link to what you saw pictures of, > described > > > > > > as Pelco, but I'm sure it was someone falling for the myth and > > > > > > misspelling the name of their Bristlenose Pleco as Pelco. > > > > > > > > > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > > > > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> (Links to any articles > > > > > > referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, > alphabetically > > > > > > under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > > > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] > > > > > > On Behalf Of Jasmine > > > > > > Sent: Saturday, June 20, 2009 9:28 PM > > > > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > Subject: [AquaticLife] Pelco verse Bristlenose > > > > > > > > > > > > Can anyone tell me what the difference is between these two? > > > > > > > > > > > > Is it just terminology or is there a difference? > > > > > > > > > > > > I have what I've always called a male bristlenose - its > about 5" and has > > > > > > bristles on its head. I have seen a few photos of Pelco's > and they look > > > > > so > > > > > > much like my bristlenose. > > > > > > Thanks > > > > > > Jasmine > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ------------------------------------ > > > > > > > > > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when > replying, Thank You. > > > > > ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , > .·´¯`·..><((((º> > > > > > PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT > important to > > > > > the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message > MODIFY the SUBJECT > > > > > LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- > > > > > <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , > .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. > > > > > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. > > > > > > > > > > If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of > unsubscribing, you > > > > > can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My > Membership" on the > > > > > home page. > > > > > > > > > > Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:aquaticlife-digest%40yahoogroups.com> to receive the digest, which > > > > > includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email > > > > > > > > > > Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:aquaticlife-nomail%40yahoogroups.com> for the No E-Mail option > where > > > > > you will still be able to read messages on the group and post > replies. > > > > > > > > > > Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:aquaticlife-normal%40yahoogroups.com> to receive individual > > > > > e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 41195	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 6/22/2009
Subject: Re: The Correct Flow Rate For Your System

I also think it has to do with how big the tank is. My 125 gallon tends to have slower moving spots even though it's greatly over filtered compared to how much filtration the previous owner had. I have slower moving fish in the tank and they don't seem to have any issues with all of the water movement, they just stick to the slower moving water and when they get into the fast water they use it as a push to get to where they're headed, smart little fishies ;) LOL. The water on the surface doesn't flow as fast as it does through the middle, and on the bottom the current flows opposite as on top, the middle flows oddly both sides pushing towards each other since there's filters on each side of the tank pointed towards each other. Amber Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > > > I think it depends on the fish and plants. If the fish and plants are from > fast moving waters, then over-filtration/circulation is OK. If the > fish and > plants are from slow moving or stagnant waters, then > over-filtration/circulation might be detrimental to the overall health of > the fish and plants. If one has a community tank with a mixture of > fish and > plants from many biotopes, then something in the middle would be best. > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right > side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On > Behalf Of aaron102272 > Sent: Monday, June 22, 2009 2:04 AM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Subject: [AquaticLife] The Correct Flow Rate For Your System > > No not my site, thanks for asking, if it was I'm sure I would've been > a lot > more active here this past year > > the have some interesting online tools also ~ > > http://www.customaquatic.com/images/webstore/content/tank-tech.html > <http://www.customaquatic.com/images/webstore/content/tank-tech.html> > > I used the ~ > > Calculate The Correct Flow Rate For Your System > > ~ and my actual flow rate is double the suggested for a planted tank, > apparently they need a lot less flow than say a reef system - do you think > it makes a real difference to be over on the flow rate? I have Fluval 305 > and it can be adjusted to decrease the flow > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>, "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" > <GoldLenny@...> > wrote: > > > > Aaron, > > > > Is that your site? If it isn't, then it's certainly NOT spam IMO. > > Heck, even if it is your site and you have the best prices in the > > world, it's worth sharing... maybe adding a disclaimer that it's your > site. > > > > As long as you don't start using O-cea_n-P-ure in the Subject line. > > LOL Exactly how many ways can the V and C words be spelled? LOL > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> (Links to any articles > > referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically > > under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] > > On Behalf Of aaron102272 > > Sent: Friday, June 19, 2009 6:01 PM > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > Subject: [AquaticLife] Off Topic? ~ Great Sale! @ > > www.CustomAquatic.com > > > > https://www.customaquatic.com/ <https://www.customaquatic.com/> > > > > 10% off all Saltwater & Freshwater Additives and Water Conditioners ~ > > Hurry > > - Sale ends June 24th > > > > and for a limited time, > > take an extra 25% off Oceanpure & Oceanpure PRO Salt > > > > This was my first time buying from this website, they had the lowest > > prices I could find for products for my Planted Tank and the 4 Liter > > of Flourish Excel (I could not find any other place that even offers > > the 4liter size) > > > > I apologize if you think this is spam, however if you happen to know > > of a great website with the lowest prices available and awesome sales, > > I hope you too would be willing to share that info with me and the > > other members in the group that might be interested in saving some > > money. > > > > Thanks for reading, > > Aaron > > > > ------------------------------------ > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. > ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> > PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to > the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the > SUBJECT > LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- > <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. > > If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of unsubscribing, you > can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the > home page. > > Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:aquaticlife-digest%40yahoogroups.com> to receive the digest, which > includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email > > Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:aquaticlife-nomail%40yahoogroups.com> for the No E-Mail option > where > you will still be able to read messages on the group and post replies. > > Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:aquaticlife-normal%40yahoogroups.com> to receive individual > e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 41196	From: Harl Myers	Date: 6/22/2009
Subject: Re: The Correct Flow Rate For Your System

I would have thought for the Hillstreams, you would have put both intakes on one end and both returns on the other. Thus making it like a river flow. Place one at mid tank and one toward the bottom on each end... Obviously what you have works, just not what I imagined... :o) On Mon, Jun 22, 2009 at 3:03 PM, Amber Berglund<amber@...> wrote: > > > I also think it has to do with how big the tank is. My 125 gallon tends > to have slower moving spots even though it's greatly over filtered > compared to how much filtration the previous owner had. I have slower > moving fish in the tank and they don't seem to have any issues with all > of the water movement, they just stick to the slower moving water and > when they get into the fast water they use it as a push to get to where > they're headed, smart little fishies ;) LOL. > > The water on the surface doesn't flow as fast as it does through the > middle, and on the bottom the current flows opposite as on top, the > middle flows oddly both sides pushing towards each other since there's > filters on each side of the tank pointed towards each other. > > Amber > > Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: >> >> >> I think it depends on the fish and plants. If the fish and plants are from >> fast moving waters, then over-filtration/circulation is OK. If the >> fish and >> plants are from slow moving or stagnant waters, then >> over-filtration/circulation might be detrimental to the overall health of >> the fish and plants. If one has a community tank with a mixture of >> fish and >> plants from many biotopes, then something in the middle would be best. >> >> Lenny Vasbinder >> Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> >> (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right >> side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com >> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> >> [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com >> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On >> Behalf Of aaron102272 >> Sent: Monday, June 22, 2009 2:04 AM >> To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> >> Subject: [AquaticLife] The Correct Flow Rate For Your System >> >> No not my site, thanks for asking, if it was I'm sure I would've been >> a lot >> more active here this past year >> >> the have some interesting online tools also ~ >> >> http://www.customaquatic.com/images/webstore/content/tank-tech.html >> <http://www.customaquatic.com/images/webstore/content/tank-tech.html> >> >> I used the ~ >> >> Calculate The Correct Flow Rate For Your System >> >> ~ and my actual flow rate is double the suggested for a planted tank, >> apparently they need a lot less flow than say a reef system - do you think >> it makes a real difference to be over on the flow rate? I have Fluval 305 >> and it can be adjusted to decrease the flow >> >> --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com >> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>, "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" >> <GoldLenny@...> >> wrote: >> > >> > Aaron, >> > >> > Is that your site? If it isn't, then it's certainly NOT spam IMO. >> > Heck, even if it is your site and you have the best prices in the >> > world, it's worth sharing... maybe adding a disclaimer that it's your >> site. >> > >> > As long as you don't start using O-cea_n-P-ure in the Subject line. >> > LOL Exactly how many ways can the V and C words be spelled? LOL >> > >> > Lenny Vasbinder >> > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com >> <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> (Links to any articles >> > referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically >> > under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) >> > >> > >> > >> > -----Original Message----- >> > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com >> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> >> [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com >> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] >> > On Behalf Of aaron102272 >> > Sent: Friday, June 19, 2009 6:01 PM >> > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> >> > Subject: [AquaticLife] Off Topic? ~ Great Sale! @ >> > www.CustomAquatic.com >> > >> > https://www.customaquatic.com/ <https://www.customaquatic.com/> >> > >> > 10% off all Saltwater & Freshwater Additives and Water Conditioners ~ >> > Hurry >> > - Sale ends June 24th >> > >> > and for a limited time, >> > take an extra 25% off Oceanpure & Oceanpure PRO Salt >> > >> > This was my first time buying from this website, they had the lowest >> > prices I could find for products for my Planted Tank and the 4 Liter >> > of Flourish Excel (I could not find any other place that even offers >> > the 4liter size) >> > >> > I apologize if you think this is spam, however if you happen to know >> > of a great website with the lowest prices available and awesome sales, >> > I hope you too would be willing to share that info with me and the >> > other members in the group that might be interested in saving some >> > money. >> > >> > Thanks for reading, >> > Aaron >> > >> >> ------------------------------------ >> >> Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. >> ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> >> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to >> the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the >> SUBJECT >> LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- >> <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. >> We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. >> >> If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of unsubscribing, you >> can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the >> home page. >> >> Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com >> <mailto:aquaticlife-digest%40yahoogroups.com> to receive the digest, which >> includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email >> >> Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com >> <mailto:aquaticlife-nomail%40yahoogroups.com> for the No E-Mail option >> where >> you will still be able to read messages on the group and post replies. >> >> Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com >> <mailto:aquaticlife-normal%40yahoogroups.com> to receive individual >> e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links >> >> > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 41197	From: Gail	Date: 6/22/2009
Subject: Re: Why do Algae blooms only occur in my 55 Gallon?/ update NEW plan

Okay, after some much needed advice from you all. I purchased some plants. I was able to find a Water Sprite and two Anacharis. So my question is "NOW WHAT?" lol Any recommendations on special care? I asked the girl at the big box store as to how to care for them; she stated, "if a leaf dies, pluck it off and that is it" - Not real specific, huh? I know the Water sprite is potted, however the Anacharis is not; can't both just float and they grow fine? I am a total "newbie" with the whole plant thing - not exactly the green thumb type. :D thanks all!! gail --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@...> wrote: > > The BIG THREE things for plants (and them unwanted single celled plants = > Algae) is Lighting, CO2 & Nutrients. > > A heavier bioload could certainly be part of the problem as the heavier > bioload would mean more fish poop and pee (ammonia, nitrates, phosphates) > which are the principle feeding NUTRIENTS for plants and algae are single > celled plants. The heavier bioload also means higher carbon and CO2 levels > in the water from the fish breathing and from the detritus decaying and > putting out carbonic acid. The LIGHTING could also be part of the problem. > You have to look at the actual bulbs for any writing on them. The "blue" > tube is likely an actinic light and the "white" tube could be fluorescent or > compact fluorescent or other. Give us all the information/writing off of > the bulbs, usually on one end. This would include wattage, lumens, item > number, etc. > > Here's a two part article about planted tanks, that originally appeared in > TFH Magazine, I think in 2006, and the second part of the article talks more > about algae and will likely answer all/most of your questions. > > PART 1 - http://naturalaquariums.com/plantedtank/0509.html > > PART 2 - http://naturalaquariums.com/plantedtank/0510.html > > Doing more frequent tank maintenance (gravel vacuuming, proper filter > cleaning, PWC's) on the tank with the heavier bioload and algae issues would > be the first thing as this would lower the available nutrients and lower the > CO2 level in the tank. The lighting, we can answer more once we know more. > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right > side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) > > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On > Behalf Of gail > Sent: Monday, June 15, 2009 4:37 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Subject: [AquaticLife] Why do Algae blooms only occur in my 55 Gallon? > > Okay, I have been having algae blooms only occuring in my 55 gallon. > Is it because it is my most populated tank? Or could it be due to that, and > the light fixture on it? I currently have a light on it, that came with it. > I bought it at a yard sale last summer, and the guy just told me that the > lights were benneficial for Coral. It has two lights inside of it, a blue > florescent and a white florescent. And it has a cooling fan on the light > fixture, but that is all that I know about it. > Can anyone here, outline the Typical causes of an algae bloom? >   > Thanks! > Gail >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 41198	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 6/22/2009
Subject: Re: Why do Algae blooms only occur in my 55 Gallon?/ update NEW plan

I think, in your case, you should let them both just float. They will get the most light and CO2 that way so they'll be able to suck up the nutrients from your water column better and grow faster. Once you get them growing like crazy on the surface, then you can start pruning them and planting some of the stalks but still leave a lot of it floating. What changes have you done with your lighting? Did you quit turning the actinic lighting on? Did you remove one of the other 65W SunPaq white bulbs? From what I remember, your lighting system also has moonlighting as part of it, which you can leave on all night long, but not the actinics as you were doing. They should probably just be left off all the time since they are more for coral than for plants. How long do you leave your main white lights on each day? Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Gail Sent: Monday, June 22, 2009 3:25 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Why do Algae blooms only occur in my 55 Gallon?/ update NEW plants Okay, after some much needed advice from you all. I purchased some plants. I was able to find a Water Sprite and two Anacharis. So my question is "NOW WHAT?" lol Any recommendations on special care? I asked the girl at the big box store as to how to care for them; she stated, "if a leaf dies, pluck it off and that is it" - Not real specific, huh? I know the Water sprite is potted, however the Anacharis is not; can't both just float and they grow fine? I am a total "newbie" with the whole plant thing - not exactly the green thumb type. :D thanks all!! gail --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@...> wrote: > > The BIG THREE things for plants (and them unwanted single celled > plants = > Algae) is Lighting, CO2 & Nutrients. > > A heavier bioload could certainly be part of the problem as the > heavier bioload would mean more fish poop and pee (ammonia, nitrates, > phosphates) which are the principle feeding NUTRIENTS for plants and > algae are single celled plants. The heavier bioload also means higher > carbon and CO2 levels in the water from the fish breathing and from > the detritus decaying and putting out carbonic acid. The LIGHTING could also be part of the problem. > You have to look at the actual bulbs for any writing on them. The "blue" > tube is likely an actinic light and the "white" tube could be > fluorescent or compact fluorescent or other. Give us all the > information/writing off of the bulbs, usually on one end. This would > include wattage, lumens, item number, etc. > > Here's a two part article about planted tanks, that originally > appeared in TFH Magazine, I think in 2006, and the second part of the > article talks more about algae and will likely answer all/most of your questions. > > PART 1 - http://naturalaquariums.com/plantedtank/0509.html > > PART 2 - http://naturalaquariums.com/plantedtank/0510.html > > Doing more frequent tank maintenance (gravel vacuuming, proper filter > cleaning, PWC's) on the tank with the heavier bioload and algae issues > would be the first thing as this would lower the available nutrients > and lower the > CO2 level in the tank. The lighting, we can answer more once we know more. > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles > referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically > under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) > > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] > On Behalf Of gail > Sent: Monday, June 15, 2009 4:37 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Subject: [AquaticLife] Why do Algae blooms only occur in my 55 Gallon? > > Okay, I have been having algae blooms only occuring in my 55 gallon. > Is it because it is my most populated tank? Or could it be due to > that, and the light fixture on it? I currently have a light on it, that came with it. > I bought it at a yard sale last summer, and the guy just told me that > the lights were benneficial for Coral. It has two lights inside of it, > a blue florescent and a white florescent. And it has a cooling fan on > the light fixture, but that is all that I know about it. > Can anyone here, outline the Typical causes of an algae bloom? >   > Thanks! > Gail

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 41199	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 6/22/2009
Subject: Re: The Correct Flow Rate For Your System

I'm going to do that on the 55 gallon when I transfer them over, for now I had to put the filters like they are since the hood is wooden and I didn't want to mess with cutting more holes in it when the filters were going to be on the tank for just a few months, then I would have had to fill the holes back up later ;) LOL. It's not exactly what I had wanted for the Hillstream loaches either, but they seem pretty happy in there. I think the red tailed catfish ate on though, I only count 5 lately :( *sigh* At least the "little" monster is gone ;) LOL. Amber Harl Myers wrote: > > > I would have thought for the Hillstreams, you would have put both > intakes on one end and both returns on the other. Thus making it like > a river flow. Place one at mid tank and one toward the bottom on each > end... Obviously what you have works, just not what I imagined... > :o) > On Mon, Jun 22, 2009 at 3:03 PM, Amber Berglund<amber@... > <mailto:amber%40rose-fields.com>> wrote: > > > > > > I also think it has to do with how big the tank is. My 125 gallon tends > > to have slower moving spots even though it's greatly over filtered > > compared to how much filtration the previous owner had. I have slower > > moving fish in the tank and they don't seem to have any issues with all > > of the water movement, they just stick to the slower moving water and > > when they get into the fast water they use it as a push to get to where > > they're headed, smart little fishies ;) LOL. > > > > The water on the surface doesn't flow as fast as it does through the > > middle, and on the bottom the current flows opposite as on top, the > > middle flows oddly both sides pushing towards each other since there's > > filters on each side of the tank pointed towards each other. > > > > Amber > > > > Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > >> > >> > >> I think it depends on the fish and plants. If the fish and plants > are from > >> fast moving waters, then over-filtration/circulation is OK. If the > >> fish and > >> plants are from slow moving or stagnant waters, then > >> over-filtration/circulation might be detrimental to the overall > health of > >> the fish and plants. If one has a community tank with a mixture of > >> fish and > >> plants from many biotopes, then something in the middle would be best. > >> > >> Lenny Vasbinder > >> Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>> > >> (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the > right > >> side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, > Month) > >> > >> -----Original Message----- > >> From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > >> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > >> [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > >> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On > >> Behalf Of aaron102272 > >> Sent: Monday, June 22, 2009 2:04 AM > >> To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > >> Subject: [AquaticLife] The Correct Flow Rate For Your System > >> > >> No not my site, thanks for asking, if it was I'm sure I would've been > >> a lot > >> more active here this past year > >> > >> the have some interesting online tools also ~ > >> > >> http://www.customaquatic.com/images/webstore/content/tank-tech.html > <http://www.customaquatic.com/images/webstore/content/tank-tech.html> > >> > <http://www.customaquatic.com/images/webstore/content/tank-tech.html > <http://www.customaquatic.com/images/webstore/content/tank-tech.html>> > >> > >> I used the ~ > >> > >> Calculate The Correct Flow Rate For Your System > >> > >> ~ and my actual flow rate is double the suggested for a planted tank, > >> apparently they need a lot less flow than say a reef system - do > you think > >> it makes a real difference to be over on the flow rate? I have > Fluval 305 > >> and it can be adjusted to decrease the flow > >> > >> --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > >> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>, "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" > >> <GoldLenny@...> > >> wrote: > >> > > >> > Aaron, > >> > > >> > Is that your site? If it isn't, then it's certainly NOT spam IMO. > >> > Heck, even if it is your site and you have the best prices in the > >> > world, it's worth sharing... maybe adding a disclaimer that it's your > >> site. > >> > > >> > As long as you don't start using O-cea_n-P-ure in the Subject line. > >> > LOL Exactly how many ways can the V and C words be spelled? LOL > >> > > >> > Lenny Vasbinder > >> > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > >> <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>> > (Links to any articles > >> > referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, > alphabetically > >> > under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > -----Original Message----- > >> > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > >> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > >> [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > >> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] > >> > On Behalf Of aaron102272 > >> > Sent: Friday, June 19, 2009 6:01 PM > >> > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > >> > Subject: [AquaticLife] Off Topic? ~ Great Sale! @ > >> > www.CustomAquatic.com > >> > > >> > https://www.customaquatic.com/ <https://www.customaquatic.com/> > <https://www.customaquatic.com/ <https://www.customaquatic.com/>> > >> > > >> > 10% off all Saltwater & Freshwater Additives and Water Conditioners ~ > >> > Hurry > >> > - Sale ends June 24th > >> > > >> > and for a limited time, > >> > take an extra 25% off Oceanpure & Oceanpure PRO Salt > >> > > >> > This was my first time buying from this website, they had the lowest > >> > prices I could find for products for my Planted Tank and the 4 Liter > >> > of Flourish Excel (I could not find any other place that even offers > >> > the 4liter size) > >> > > >> > I apologize if you think this is spam, however if you happen to know > >> > of a great website with the lowest prices available and awesome > sales, > >> > I hope you too would be willing to share that info with me and the > >> > other members in the group that might be interested in saving some > >> > money. > >> > > >> > Thanks for reading, > >> > Aaron > >> > > >> > >> ------------------------------------ > >> > >> Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, > Thank You. > >> ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , > .·´¯`·..><((((º> > >> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT > important to > >> the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the > >> SUBJECT > >> LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- > >> <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. > >> We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. > >> > >> If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of > unsubscribing, you > >> can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My Membership" > on the > >> home page. > >> > >> Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:aquaticlife-digest%40yahoogroups.com> > >> <mailto:aquaticlife-digest%40yahoogroups.com> to receive the > digest, which > >> includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email > >> > >> Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:aquaticlife-nomail%40yahoogroups.com> > >> <mailto:aquaticlife-nomail%40yahoogroups.com> for the No E-Mail option > >> where > >> you will still be able to read messages on the group and post replies. > >> > >> Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:aquaticlife-normal%40yahoogroups.com> > >> <mailto:aquaticlife-normal%40yahoogroups.com> to receive individual > >> e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links > >> > >> > > > > > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 41200	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 6/22/2009
Subject: Re: Why do Algae blooms only occur in my 55 Gallon?/ update NEW plan

If you leave it floating watch for it to get sucked into the filter intake, if you have a lot of surface agitation from something like a HOB filter instead of a power filter that comes out an intake under the top of the water. The HOB filters have a tendency to push anything under water and if the current is strong enough it will stick to the intake filter after it gets pushed underwater. HOB filters are not very friendly to floating plants sometimes ;) LOL. Amber Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > > > I think, in your case, you should let them both just float. They will get > the most light and CO2 that way so they'll be able to suck up the > nutrients > from your water column better and grow faster. Once you get them growing > like crazy on the surface, then you can start pruning them and > planting some > of the stalks but still leave a lot of it floating. > > What changes have you done with your lighting? Did you quit turning the > actinic lighting on? Did you remove one of the other 65W SunPaq white > bulbs? From what I remember, your lighting system also has moonlighting as > part of it, which you can leave on all night long, but not the actinics as > you were doing. They should probably just be left off all the time since > they are more for coral than for plants. How long do you leave your main > white lights on each day? > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right > side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On > Behalf Of Gail > Sent: Monday, June 22, 2009 3:25 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Why do Algae blooms only occur in my 55 > Gallon?/ > update NEW plants > > Okay, after some much needed advice from you all. I purchased some > plants. I > was able to find a Water Sprite and two Anacharis. So my question is "NOW > WHAT?" lol > > Any recommendations on special care? I asked the girl at the big box store > as to how to care for them; she stated, "if a leaf dies, pluck it off and > that is it" - Not real specific, huh? > I know the Water sprite is potted, however the Anacharis is not; can't > both > just float and they grow fine? > > I am a total "newbie" with the whole plant thing - not exactly the green > thumb type. :D > > thanks all!! > gail > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>, "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" > <GoldLenny@...> > wrote: > > > > The BIG THREE things for plants (and them unwanted single celled > > plants = > > Algae) is Lighting, CO2 & Nutrients. > > > > A heavier bioload could certainly be part of the problem as the > > heavier bioload would mean more fish poop and pee (ammonia, nitrates, > > phosphates) which are the principle feeding NUTRIENTS for plants and > > algae are single celled plants. The heavier bioload also means higher > > carbon and CO2 levels in the water from the fish breathing and from > > the detritus decaying and putting out carbonic acid. The LIGHTING could > also be part of the problem. > > You have to look at the actual bulbs for any writing on them. The "blue" > > tube is likely an actinic light and the "white" tube could be > > fluorescent or compact fluorescent or other. Give us all the > > information/writing off of the bulbs, usually on one end. This would > > include wattage, lumens, item number, etc. > > > > Here's a two part article about planted tanks, that originally > > appeared in TFH Magazine, I think in 2006, and the second part of the > > article talks more about algae and will likely answer all/most of your > questions. > > > > PART 1 - http://naturalaquariums.com/plantedtank/0509.html > <http://naturalaquariums.com/plantedtank/0509.html> > > > > PART 2 - http://naturalaquariums.com/plantedtank/0510.html > <http://naturalaquariums.com/plantedtank/0510.html> > > > > Doing more frequent tank maintenance (gravel vacuuming, proper filter > > cleaning, PWC's) on the tank with the heavier bioload and algae issues > > would be the first thing as this would lower the available nutrients > > and lower the > > CO2 level in the tank. The lighting, we can answer more once we know > more. > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> (Links to any articles > > referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically > > under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] > > On Behalf Of gail > > Sent: Monday, June 15, 2009 4:37 PM > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > Subject: [AquaticLife] Why do Algae blooms only occur in my 55 Gallon? > > > > Okay, I have been having algae blooms only occuring in my 55 gallon. > > Is it because it is my most populated tank? Or could it be due to > > that, and the light fixture on it? I currently have a light on it, that > came with it. > > I bought it at a yard sale last summer, and the guy just told me that > > the lights were benneficial for Coral. It has two lights inside of it, > > a blue florescent and a white florescent. And it has a cooling fan on > > the light fixture, but that is all that I know about it. > > Can anyone here, outline the Typical causes of an algae bloom? > > > > Thanks! > > Gail > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 41201	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 6/22/2009
Subject: Water testing with crushed coral

I have a bucket filled about a 1/4 of the way with crushed coral and the rest of it with water. I have been doing daily pH testing to see what the pH averages out to, so far each day has tested somewhere close to 7.6. If I were to add crushed coral to my fish tanks inside the filters in a bag would it change my pH so drastically or would it be something gradual that happens with water changes? The bucket has been sitting since friday night. I tested right after I filled it with water and it tested at 7.6 as well, so it could be that it just hasn't lowered from my tap water pH because there's nothing else in the tank to lower the pH (such as plants)? Amber

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 41202	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 6/22/2009
Subject: Re: The Correct Flow Rate For Your System

Amber, I'm up for adoption... and I only expect Filet Mignon three times a week. The other four nights can be Porterhouse, T-bones and Prime Rib. Oh wait... you only fed your Redtail Catfish that well. ;-) Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Amber Berglund Sent: Monday, June 22, 2009 4:07 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] The Correct Flow Rate For Your System I'm going to do that on the 55 gallon when I transfer them over, for now I had to put the filters like they are since the hood is wooden and I didn't want to mess with cutting more holes in it when the filters were going to be on the tank for just a few months, then I would have had to fill the holes back up later ;) LOL. It's not exactly what I had wanted for the Hillstream loaches either, but they seem pretty happy in there. I think the red tailed catfish ate on though, I only count 5 lately :( *sigh* At least the "little" monster is gone ;) LOL. Amber Harl Myers wrote: > > > I would have thought for the Hillstreams, you would have put both > intakes on one end and both returns on the other. Thus making it like > a river flow. Place one at mid tank and one toward the bottom on each > end... Obviously what you have works, just not what I imagined... > :o) > On Mon, Jun 22, 2009 at 3:03 PM, Amber Berglund<amber@... > <mailto:amber%40rose-fields.com>> wrote: > > > > > > I also think it has to do with how big the tank is. My 125 gallon > > tends to have slower moving spots even though it's greatly over > > filtered compared to how much filtration the previous owner had. I > > have slower moving fish in the tank and they don't seem to have any > > issues with all of the water movement, they just stick to the slower > > moving water and when they get into the fast water they use it as a > > push to get to where they're headed, smart little fishies ;) LOL. > > > > The water on the surface doesn't flow as fast as it does through the > > middle, and on the bottom the current flows opposite as on top, the > > middle flows oddly both sides pushing towards each other since > > there's filters on each side of the tank pointed towards each other. > > > > Amber > > > > Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > >> > >> > >> I think it depends on the fish and plants. If the fish and plants > are from > >> fast moving waters, then over-filtration/circulation is OK. If the > >> fish and plants are from slow moving or stagnant waters, then > >> over-filtration/circulation might be detrimental to the overall > health of > >> the fish and plants. If one has a community tank with a mixture of > >> fish and plants from many biotopes, then something in the middle > >> would be best. > >> > >> Lenny Vasbinder > >> Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>> > >> (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the > right > >> side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, > Month) > >> > >> -----Original Message----- > >> From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > >> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > >> [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > >> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On Behalf Of aaron102272 > >> Sent: Monday, June 22, 2009 2:04 AM > >> To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > >> Subject: [AquaticLife] The Correct Flow Rate For Your System > >> > >> No not my site, thanks for asking, if it was I'm sure I would've > >> been a lot more active here this past year > >> > >> the have some interesting online tools also ~ > >> > >> http://www.customaquatic.com/images/webstore/content/tank-tech.html > <http://www.customaquatic.com/images/webstore/content/tank-tech.html> > >> > <http://www.customaquatic.com/images/webstore/content/tank-tech.html > <http://www.customaquatic.com/images/webstore/content/tank-tech.html>> > >> > >> I used the ~ > >> > >> Calculate The Correct Flow Rate For Your System > >> > >> ~ and my actual flow rate is double the suggested for a planted > >> tank, apparently they need a lot less flow than say a reef system - > >> do > you think > >> it makes a real difference to be over on the flow rate? I have > Fluval 305 > >> and it can be adjusted to decrease the flow > >> > >> --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > >> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>, "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" > >> <GoldLenny@...> > >> wrote: > >> > > >> > Aaron, > >> > > >> > Is that your site? If it isn't, then it's certainly NOT spam IMO. > >> > Heck, even if it is your site and you have the best prices in the > >> > world, it's worth sharing... maybe adding a disclaimer that it's > >> > your > >> site. > >> > > >> > As long as you don't start using O-cea_n-P-ure in the Subject line. > >> > LOL Exactly how many ways can the V and C words be spelled? LOL > >> > > >> > Lenny Vasbinder > >> > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > >> <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>> > (Links to any articles > >> > referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, > alphabetically > >> > under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > -----Original Message----- > >> > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > >> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > >> [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > >> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] > >> > On Behalf Of aaron102272 > >> > Sent: Friday, June 19, 2009 6:01 PM > >> > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > >> > Subject: [AquaticLife] Off Topic? ~ Great Sale! @ > >> > www.CustomAquatic.com > >> > > >> > https://www.customaquatic.com/ <https://www.customaquatic.com/> > <https://www.customaquatic.com/ <https://www.customaquatic.com/>> > >> > > >> > 10% off all Saltwater & Freshwater Additives and Water > >> > Conditioners ~ Hurry > >> > - Sale ends June 24th > >> > > >> > and for a limited time, > >> > take an extra 25% off Oceanpure & Oceanpure PRO Salt > >> > > >> > This was my first time buying from this website, they had the > >> > lowest prices I could find for products for my Planted Tank and > >> > the 4 Liter of Flourish Excel (I could not find any other place > >> > that even offers the 4liter size) > >> > > >> > I apologize if you think this is spam, however if you happen to > >> > know of a great website with the lowest prices available and > >> > awesome > sales, > >> > I hope you too would be willing to share that info with me and > >> > the other members in the group that might be interested in saving > >> > some money. > >> > > >> > Thanks for reading, > >> > Aaron

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 41203	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 6/22/2009
Subject: Betta behavior

Well since the plant "exploded" from it's pot inside of my 10 gallon betta tank I have left the plant floating, since I wasn't sure what caused the problem in the first place. The plant is doing better than it was when it was planted, which is probably due to the fact that it's on the surface for more CO2 and light. Well the betta has decided it's his friend, he spends his time resting under the plant when he's not building his bubble nest on the other side of the tank ;). It's a sword I think, though I'm unsure which kind precisely, I'm guessing that eventually it will get more leaves and weigh itself down more? I suppose I could put it in a really tall pot this time and see what happens ;) Perhaps the plant wanted more light so it climbed out of it's pot and floated up to the light? LOL I know far fetched, but I still have no clue what caused the incident. Amber

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 41204	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 6/22/2009
Subject: Re: The Correct Flow Rate For Your System

LOL, it wasn't like I was dangling the fish in front of him y'know ;). I figure if they were too slow to get out of the way then it's a loss on my part ;) I'm not going to cry about it, but I learned a valuable lesson, research all fish before buying ;) LOL. Amber Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > > > Amber, > > I'm up for adoption... and I only expect Filet Mignon three times a week. > The other four nights can be Porterhouse, T-bones and Prime Rib. > > Oh wait... you only fed your Redtail Catfish that well. ;-) > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right > side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On > Behalf Of Amber Berglund > Sent: Monday, June 22, 2009 4:07 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] The Correct Flow Rate For Your System > > I'm going to do that on the 55 gallon when I transfer them over, for now I > had to put the filters like they are since the hood is wooden and I didn't > want to mess with cutting more holes in it when the filters were going > to be > on the tank for just a few months, then I would have had to fill the holes > back up later ;) LOL. > It's not exactly what I had wanted for the Hillstream loaches either, but > they seem pretty happy in there. I think the red tailed catfish ate on > though, I only count 5 lately :( *sigh* At least the "little" monster is > gone ;) LOL. > > Amber > > Harl Myers wrote: > > > > > > I would have thought for the Hillstreams, you would have put both > > intakes on one end and both returns on the other. Thus making it like > > a river flow. Place one at mid tank and one toward the bottom on each > > end... Obviously what you have works, just not what I imagined... > > :o) > > On Mon, Jun 22, 2009 at 3:03 PM, Amber > Berglund<amber@... <mailto:amber%40rose-fields.com> > > <mailto:amber%40rose-fields.com>> wrote: > > > > > > > > > I also think it has to do with how big the tank is. My 125 gallon > > > tends to have slower moving spots even though it's greatly over > > > filtered compared to how much filtration the previous owner had. I > > > have slower moving fish in the tank and they don't seem to have any > > > issues with all of the water movement, they just stick to the slower > > > moving water and when they get into the fast water they use it as a > > > push to get to where they're headed, smart little fishies ;) LOL. > > > > > > The water on the surface doesn't flow as fast as it does through the > > > middle, and on the bottom the current flows opposite as on top, the > > > middle flows oddly both sides pushing towards each other since > > > there's filters on each side of the tank pointed towards each other. > > > > > > Amber > > > > > > Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > > >> > > >> > > >> I think it depends on the fish and plants. If the fish and plants > > are from > > >> fast moving waters, then over-filtration/circulation is OK. If the > > >> fish and plants are from slow moving or stagnant waters, then > > >> over-filtration/circulation might be detrimental to the overall > > health of > > >> the fish and plants. If one has a community tank with a mixture of > > >> fish and plants from many biotopes, then something in the middle > > >> would be best. > > >> > > >> Lenny Vasbinder > > >> Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>>> > > >> (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the > > right > > >> side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, > > Month) > > >> > > >> -----Original Message----- > > >> From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > >> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > >> [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > >> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On Behalf Of aaron102272 > > >> Sent: Monday, June 22, 2009 2:04 AM > > >> To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > >> Subject: [AquaticLife] The Correct Flow Rate For Your System > > >> > > >> No not my site, thanks for asking, if it was I'm sure I would've > > >> been a lot more active here this past year > > >> > > >> the have some interesting online tools also ~ > > >> > > >> > http://www.customaquatic.com/images/webstore/content/tank-tech.html > <http://www.customaquatic.com/images/webstore/content/tank-tech.html> > > <http://www.customaquatic.com/images/webstore/content/tank-tech.html > <http://www.customaquatic.com/images/webstore/content/tank-tech.html>> > > >> > > <http://www.customaquatic.com/images/webstore/content/tank-tech.html > <http://www.customaquatic.com/images/webstore/content/tank-tech.html> > > <http://www.customaquatic.com/images/webstore/content/tank-tech.html > <http://www.customaquatic.com/images/webstore/content/tank-tech.html>>> > > >> > > >> I used the ~ > > >> > > >> Calculate The Correct Flow Rate For Your System > > >> > > >> ~ and my actual flow rate is double the suggested for a planted > > >> tank, apparently they need a lot less flow than say a reef system - > > >> do > > you think > > >> it makes a real difference to be over on the flow rate? I have > > Fluval 305 > > >> and it can be adjusted to decrease the flow > > >> > > >> --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > >> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>, "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" > > >> <GoldLenny@...> > > >> wrote: > > >> > > > >> > Aaron, > > >> > > > >> > Is that your site? If it isn't, then it's certainly NOT spam IMO. > > >> > Heck, even if it is your site and you have the best prices in the > > >> > world, it's worth sharing... maybe adding a disclaimer that it's > > >> > your > > >> site. > > >> > > > >> > As long as you don't start using O-cea_n-P-ure in the Subject line. > > >> > LOL Exactly how many ways can the V and C words be spelled? LOL > > >> > > > >> > Lenny Vasbinder > > >> > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>> > > >> <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>>> > > (Links to any articles > > >> > referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, > > alphabetically > > >> > under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) > > >> > > > >> > > > >> > > > >> > -----Original Message----- > > >> > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > >> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > >> [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > >> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] > > >> > On Behalf Of aaron102272 > > >> > Sent: Friday, June 19, 2009 6:01 PM > > >> > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > >> > Subject: [AquaticLife] Off Topic? ~ Great Sale! @ > > >> > www.CustomAquatic.com > > >> > > > >> > https://www.customaquatic.com/ <https://www.customaquatic.com/> > <https://www.customaquatic.com/ <https://www.customaquatic.com/>> > > <https://www.customaquatic.com/ <https://www.customaquatic.com/> > <https://www.customaquatic.com/ <https://www.customaquatic.com/>>> > > >> > > > >> > 10% off all Saltwater & Freshwater Additives and Water > > >> > Conditioners ~ Hurry > > >> > - Sale ends June 24th > > >> > > > >> > and for a limited time, > > >> > take an extra 25% off Oceanpure & Oceanpure PRO Salt > > >> > > > >> > This was my first time buying from this website, they had the > > >> > lowest prices I could find for products for my Planted Tank and > > >> > the 4 Liter of Flourish Excel (I could not find any other place > > >> > that even offers the 4liter size) > > >> > > > >> > I apologize if you think this is spam, however if you happen to > > >> > know of a great website with the lowest prices available and > > >> > awesome > > sales, > > >> > I hope you too would be willing to share that info with me and > > >> > the other members in the group that might be interested in saving > > >> > some money. > > >> > > > >> > Thanks for reading, > > >> > Aaron > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 41205	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 6/22/2009
Subject: Re: Water testing with crushed coral

Did you ever do your tap water baseline testing? What were the numbers right out the tap, at 24 hours and 48 hours? Mainly the pH, GH and KH but also the others, if noteworthy. What percentage of the 1/4 full bucket is crushed coral, as opposed to the amount of crushed coral that you would have in your tank? For example, if you have a quart of crushed coral in a 1/4 full bucket (around 1.25G, so the crushed coral would be 1/5th (20%) of the water volume) you wouldn't be able to put that same percentage in any of your tanks... well not practically speaking. If you have an appropriate percentage of crushed coral in the 1.25G, as you would put in your 125G (so about 1/100th of the amount you would put in the 125G, then that would give you a more accurate baseline to compare to what would happen in the 125G. I can tell you this much, I don't think that crushed coral will change the water parameters very fast, with a suitable dosage of crushed coral. Maybe if you tested the bucket once a month, you would see some changes but not on a daily testing basis. You would need it finely ground (like flour) for it to go into solution and have a faster effect. This is why Baking Soda (Sodium Bicarbonate) and Oyster Flour (ground oyster shells - calcium carbonate) have a faster effect on the water, as it's ground so finely that it will go into solution. Crushed coral would take a while for the acidic water to slowly dissolve the larger pieces to where they start to effect the parameters. Crushed Coral is more for slowly raising and then "maintaining" certain water parameters, not for making an immediately measureable change. Yes, in an ecosystem with fish, plants, microbes, etc., all of these would utilize some of the trace elements that make up the KH and GH levels, which would then affect the pH level. This is why, in a tank with no additives that would raise the pH, the pH WILL ALWAYS COME DOWN in between PWC's... which is why we should do more frequent, smaller PWC's, rather than less frequent LARGE PWC's. The more frequent, smaller PWC's (25% or less) will keep the water parameters more stable where doing a LARGE PWC (50% or more) can dramatically alter the water parameters, possibly causing osmotic shock, pH shock, etc. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Amber Berglund Sent: Monday, June 22, 2009 4:14 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Water testing with crushed coral I have a bucket filled about a 1/4 of the way with crushed coral and the rest of it with water. I have been doing daily pH testing to see what the pH averages out to, so far each day has tested somewhere close to 7.6. If I were to add crushed coral to my fish tanks inside the filters in a bag would it change my pH so drastically or would it be something gradual that happens with water changes? The bucket has been sitting since friday night. I tested right after I filled it with water and it tested at 7.6 as well, so it could be that it just hasn't lowered from my tap water pH because there's nothing else in the tank to lower the pH (such as plants)? Amber

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 41206	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 6/22/2009
Subject: Re: Water testing with crushed coral

I didn't do the baseline testing, I forgot about it, ugh. I can empty the bucket and start a baseline testing though. I just put crushed coral in the bucket I didn't measure how much I would need for the 125 gallon or any other tanks, I'm not really sure how much I will need to be honest. If I were to use a decent amount and do daily PWC's would my tank pH slowly go up to match my tap water (if it's higher than 6, which I'm pretty sure it is)? Amber Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > > > Did you ever do your tap water baseline testing? What were the numbers > right out the tap, at 24 hours and 48 hours? Mainly the pH, GH and KH but > also the others, if noteworthy. > > What percentage of the 1/4 full bucket is crushed coral, as opposed to the > amount of crushed coral that you would have in your tank? For example, if > you have a quart of crushed coral in a 1/4 full bucket (around 1.25G, > so the > crushed coral would be 1/5th (20%) of the water volume) you wouldn't > be able > to put that same percentage in any of your tanks... well not practically > speaking. If you have an appropriate percentage of crushed coral in the > 1.25G, as you would put in your 125G (so about 1/100th of the amount you > would put in the 125G, then that would give you a more accurate > baseline to > compare to what would happen in the 125G. I can tell you this much, I > don't > think that crushed coral will change the water parameters very fast, > with a > suitable dosage of crushed coral. Maybe if you tested the bucket once a > month, you would see some changes but not on a daily testing basis. > > You would need it finely ground (like flour) for it to go into > solution and > have a faster effect. This is why Baking Soda (Sodium Bicarbonate) and > Oyster Flour (ground oyster shells - calcium carbonate) have a faster > effect > on the water, as it's ground so finely that it will go into solution. > Crushed coral would take a while for the acidic water to slowly > dissolve the > larger pieces to where they start to effect the parameters. Crushed Coral > is more for slowly raising and then "maintaining" certain water > parameters, > not for making an immediately measureable change. > > Yes, in an ecosystem with fish, plants, microbes, etc., all of these would > utilize some of the trace elements that make up the KH and GH levels, > which > would then affect the pH level. This is why, in a tank with no additives > that would raise the pH, the pH WILL ALWAYS COME DOWN in between PWC's... > which is why we should do more frequent, smaller PWC's, rather than less > frequent LARGE PWC's. The more frequent, smaller PWC's (25% or less) will > keep the water parameters more stable where doing a LARGE PWC (50% or > more) > can dramatically alter the water parameters, possibly causing osmotic > shock, > pH shock, etc. > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right > side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On > Behalf Of Amber Berglund > Sent: Monday, June 22, 2009 4:14 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Subject: [AquaticLife] Water testing with crushed coral > > I have a bucket filled about a 1/4 of the way with crushed coral and the > rest of it with water. I have been doing daily pH testing to see what > the pH > averages out to, so far each day has tested somewhere close to 7.6. If I > were to add crushed coral to my fish tanks inside the filters in a bag > would > it change my pH so drastically or would it be something gradual that > happens > with water changes? > The bucket has been sitting since friday night. I tested right after I > filled it with water and it tested at 7.6 as well, so it could be that it > just hasn't lowered from my tap water pH because there's nothing else > in the > tank to lower the pH (such as plants)? > > Amber > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 41207	From: Raymond Wetzel	Date: 6/22/2009
Subject: Now: About Angel fish Re: [AquaticLife] Was: Pelco verse Bristlenos

Hi Amber, You're entirely welcome, I hope you've been able to put the info to good use. I do see that you've been able to find many of these differences in your pairs, I'm pleased to see. At least now you'll know what to look for in Angelfish in the future if you get any additions. The "nuchal hump" on some males' heads usually only occur as they get older, as with many other Cichlids which develop this. It's not often that obvious until these males get quite large. This trait is readily seen in Jasmine's male Angel in her 12th photo (posted 6/21). This is the darker colored fish having the most black, and it's facing towards the left. In general, as with many other New World Cichlids, if there is any size difference it's the males that are more inclined to be larger. I say, "if there is any size difference," as this trait cannot be depended upon as a method of sexual dimorphism. Often enough, in Angels both sexes may be of similar size. Still, usually when there is an obvious size difference, it is the male which will tend to be larger. I need to point out though, that this is not the case 100% of the time (my reasson for saying "usually"); A while back, I had a female which was at least as large or larger than any male I've ever seen -- so even though rare, at least a few females may occassionally be larger even than a larger than average male. With your female, it's more probable that she will never catch up in size, only because they tend to be smaller on average. As males get larger, they will get wider, especially more noticeable through the head, but should still have a "V" shaped belly region -- unless just recently well fed. Ray --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, Amber Berglund <amber@...> wrote: > > I thank you for all the info you've recently posted on Angel's Ray, I > myself went to my tank to see if I could see the differences pointed out > and most of them were present in my pair. The only one that I could not > see was the "hump" on my male, both of mine have a slight hump but > nothing pronounced at all. > I also notice this ability to contract or widen their dorsal fin, but > only my male does it as my female appears to have a bent dorsal fin as > well. > Is there a size difference between males/females? My male is bigger but > he is also older than my female so I always figured she would catch up > some day in size. I do notice that the male is thicker through the > middle than the female (wider if you want to say), the male's head is > wider than the female's. > > Amber > > Raymond Wetzel wrote: > > > > > > Hi Jasmine, The other Angelfish that you posted yesterday, that you > > feel is a female is actually the male. This Angelfish that you just > > posted today, in the right forefront (with the male in the left > > background) in both recent photos, is the female. You have them > > reversed in you diagnosis of their sex. If anyone told you about the > > dorsal fin's ability as being contractable in Angelfish as a trait in > > determining male Angels, they are completely wrong. This ability to > > contract or widen the Dorsal fin is present in many Angels, to varying > > degrees. The main reason why your other Angelfish (the one you believe > > to be a female) is not seen to show this trait is because it's Dorsal > > fin is bent. > > > > As for the position of the anus in Angels, while the pores for the > > breeding tubes of fish are located to the rear of the anus, the male's > > anus is located farther back than the female's -- somewhat closer to > > his breeding tube. If you saw one of these two Angelfish excreting > > towards the back of the Angelfish's body, this is just one more reason > > why it would be a male. > > > > In Cichlids, Angelfish included, if you were to net and remove each > > fish from the tank and invert it to observe the position and > > appearance of their sexual organs in relation to their anus (this > > procedure is called "venting"), you would find a figure-8 > > configuration of these two openings in the male, showing you the close > > proximity of his gential pore to his anal pore, as the borders of both > > of these pores join. In the female, you would see two distinctly > > separate pore openings, with the anal pore located a short distance > > away (slightly forward) from her gential opening, creating a gap of > > plain body tissue (skin) between them -- this area would appear as two > > separate "O's" as "O O" (rather than as "OO" in the male). So by this, > > you should be able to see that it's the male that has been excreting > > more towards the rear of his body. "Venting" can best be seen in > > larger Cichlids, such as Oscars, but is observable in all Cichlids, > > displaying their sexual differences. > > > > If you can see the male's breeding tube facing forward, and the > > female's breeding tube facing backward, you're GOOD! Granted, there is > > a slight slant to these tubes when extended, but so slight in > > Angelfish that it's barely perceptable. For all intents and purposes, > > when these fish are breeding, both of their tubes appear to extend > > straight down. The female's ovipositor is thicker and blunt on the > > end, whereas the male's breeding tube is conical in shape, coming to a > > point. > > > > As for the "exiled" Angelfish, as it's position in the photo does not > > lend to a good view in determining its sex, I really can't tell if > > it's a male or female, but the fact that it will contract or expand > > its Dorsal fin does not preclude its being a female. > > > > The much mellower behavior of the pair towards the "exiled" (yellow, > > silver-striped) Angel at night when the lighting is more subdued is > > not strange at all -- and can be expected -- just as much as when the > > lights are on during the day, that the pair harasses this lone > > Angelfish. For this same reason, while Angels (and Angelfish pairs) > > will all behave somewhat differently within the confines of the > > extablished behavior of this species, it's always best to breed these > > fish in more subdued light -- unless they are being housed in a much > > larger than ordinary tank. The sense of sight in fishes is one of the > > prime (if not, THE prime) source of these animals' environmental > > stimuli input. The greater the light intensity, the greater is the > > "glaring" of their view of their surroundings including that of their > > conspecifics as a stimulus to their brain and what (and how) they > > perceive their conspecifics; this includes the stimuli they receive as > > how they perceive their mates as well. > > > > If the image they are receiving of an intruder conspecific, such as > > this lone Angelfish, is especially glaring from brighter lighting, the > > stimuli of the presence of this fish in their (the pair's) vicinity is > > increasingly strong -- to the point the it can be interpreted as > > challenging. Likewise, for a pair which may be ordinarily high-strung > > towards each other in behavior, compared to the norm of Angelfish > > behavior. With such pairs, it's especially important not to keep > > bright lights on them. Such intense visual stimuli as a "glaring" > > image of their mate can be interpreted as challenging. More subdued > > lighting always defuses such a situation, regardless of any Angelfish > > pair's individual behavior. Ray > > > > P.S.: Please reread my recent post on sexing Angelfish. You should be > > able to see the obvious traits I've pointed out in both sexes as > > relates to your pair. > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>, "Jasmine" <adonaikam@> wrote: > > > > > > Hi Ray > > > > > > We believe it to be a female mainly because the angel fish that it > > seems to have paired off with – we believe to be a male angel. There > > are two reasons why we believe it to be a male: > > > 1. Its dorsal fin can either be extended or contracted to look like > > a needle (probably the best way to describe it, and > > > 2. On occasions when I have noticed it doing a poo, it tends to > > excrete toward the front of the angel and the angel we believe to be a > > female – well, they tend to excrete toward the back of the angel. > > > > > > I have been told that to sex an angel is best done by looking at > > their sex organs. Males face forward and females face backward. > > > With regards to the dorsal fins, I have added 3 new photo's – these > > are not as clear though. > > > > > > Photo 1 - titled `Angels that have paired off #1' shows (what we > > believe to be) female on the left and male on the right. The angel on > > the right, you will notice its dorsal fin is expanded. > > > > > > Photo 2 - titled `Angels that have paired off #2' the same two > > angels. This time the dorsal fin on the yellow one is contracted in a > > needle like fashion. > > > > > > Photo 3 – titled `exiled angel' - this angel has been continually > > chased away once the other two paired off. We believe this one to be a > > male also as it does the same thing with its dorsal fin. > > > > > > The strange thing is, the yellow/silver stripped angel (from photo > > 3) can come out at night and not get harassed at all. It can swim > > quite freely BUT when the lights come on, it is chased. > > > > > > Jasmine > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>, "Raymond Wetzel" > > <sevenspringss@> wrote: > > > > > > > > Jasmine, Real nice fish photography, you must have a good camera > > to get good (sharp) close ups like this. Question: What makes you > > believe that your large Marble Angelfish is a female? Ray > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>, "Jasmine" <adonaikam@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > Thank you Lenny > > > > > > > > > > I've had a look at all the sites and yes I'm pretty sure its a > > Bristlenose pleco. > > > > > > > > > > I had fun tonight taking photos of my fish after I fed them. I > > have updated a few more photos. Marjority of which were of the > > bristlenose pleco - some nice close up shots. > > > > > > > > > > Jasmine > > > > > > > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>, "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" > > <GoldLenny@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > I just looked at your picture and you definitely have a > > Bristlenose pleco > > > > > > (catfish) a/k/a bushynose pleco (catfish). Many sites will > > call it a > > > > > > Bristlenose catfish instead of pleco since pleco would suggest > > it's a H. > > > > > > plecostomus, which it's not. > > > > > > > > > > > > A search on PlanetCatfish.com, one of the most extensive > > websites on the net > > > > > > about all things catfish, has several species of Bristlenose > > catfish, as > > > > > > well as albino variants but yours is not an albino so look at > > the below > > > > > > profiles and click on the pictures and compare yours to find > > out which > > > > > > Ancistrus species you have. > > > > > > > > > > > > http://www.planetcatfish.com/catelog/species.php?species_id=49 > > <http://www.planetcatfish.com/catelog/species.php?species_id=49> > > Ancistrus cf. > > > > > > cirrhosus > > > > > > > > > > > > > > http://www.planetcatfish.com/catelog/species.php?species_id=152 > > <http://www.planetcatfish.com/catelog/species.php?species_id=152> > > Ancistrus > > > > > > claro > > > > > > > > > > > > > > http://www.planetcatfish.com/catelog/species.php?species_id=221 > > <http://www.planetcatfish.com/catelog/species.php?species_id=221> > > Ancistrus > > > > > > dolichopterus > > > > > > > > > > > > http://www.planetcatfish.com/catelog/species.php?species_id=48 > > <http://www.planetcatfish.com/catelog/species.php?species_id=48> Ancistrus > > > > > > tamboensis > > > > > > > > > > > > These other reputable websites have even more species or > > variants listed. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > http://www.aquariumlife.net/profiles/plecostamus/bristle-nose-pleco/100049.a > > <http://www.aquariumlife.net/profiles/plecostamus/bristle-nose-pleco/100049.a> > > > > > > sp Ancistrus temminckii > > > > > > > > > > > > This site is more about the generic Ancistrus sp. and has lots > > of comments > > > > > > from other BN Pleco keepers. You'll see there are 3 pages of > > comments if > > > > > > you want to read them all. Of course, check out comments > > before taking them > > > > > > as fact. > > > > > > > > > > > > http://www.aquahobby.com/gallery/e_bristle.php > > <http://www.aquahobby.com/gallery/e_bristle.php> > > > > > > > > > > > > Let us know which one you have. If you can't figure it out, > > then you will > > > > > > need to get better pictures and post them here and see if one > > of us can. > > > > > > Take front and side pics with the fins extended, if possible. > > I hear that > > > > > > playing Madonna's Vogue song will cause people and fish to > > "strike a pose". > > > > > > ;-) > > > > > > > > > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > > > > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > > > > (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on > > the right > > > > > > side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by > > Year, Month) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > > > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On > > > > > > Behalf Of Jasmine > > > > > > Sent: Saturday, June 20, 2009 11:51 PM > > > > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Pelco verse Bristlenose > > > > > > > > > > > > Hi Lenny > > > > > > > > > > > > It was all me, I spelt it wrong. I simply spelt it > > phonetically the way I > > > > > > pronounce it. > > > > > > > > > > > > From viewing the hyperlinks you provided and reading what you > > wrote – it > > > > > > appears I may have a Bushy Nose Pleco. I got my camera and > > went to take a > > > > > > photo but, it was in hiding. It's been hiding a lot over the > > last couple of > > > > > > weeks and has only just started venturing out. > > > > > > > > > > > > I can't be sure how long we have had him for, I did find a > > photo of him > > > > > > which was taken back in January this year (its a poor shot but > > I can make > > > > > > out it was him). When I got him he already had bristles. I > > don't think we > > > > > > have had him more than a year. > > > > > > > > > > > > I'll try and get a shot and post it for you. In the mean time, > > I did manage > > > > > > to get a good shot of one of our newest BN – I just need to > > recharge the > > > > > > battery on the camera before I can do anything  > > > > > > > > > > > > Jasmine > > > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>, "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" > > <GoldLenny@> > > > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I'm not sure if you accidentally misspelled Pleco when you > > referred to > > > > > > > it as Pelco but that is a common internet myth about this > > group of fish. > > > > > > > According to the myth, if you spell Pleco as Pleco and not > > misspell it > > > > > > > as Pelco or Pl*co or Plec, your Pleco will die. PLECO, > > PLECO, PLECO, > > > > > > > PLECO, PLECO, PLECO, PLECO. I just checked and my Clown > > Pleco is > > > > > > > still fine. ;-) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > The term or common name, Pleco, should have probably been > > called > > > > > > > "Suckermouth Catfish" instead of Pleco, but I guess Pleco is > > nice and > > > > > > short. > > > > > > > The general term Pleco probably became the most commonly > > used term as > > > > > > > it is short for Hypostomus Plecostomus which is the one of > > the several > > > > > > > species that are commonly referred to as "Common Pleco" in > > pet stores. > > > > > > > Other species included and commonly sold as "Common Plecos" are > > > > > > > Pterygoplichthys pardalis, Acipenser plecostomus, Hypostomus > > > > > > > punctatus, Liposarcus multiradiatus, Liposarcus pardalis, > > Plecostomus > > > > > > plecostomus (from: > > > > > > > > > http://www.aquariumlife.net/profiles/common-plecostomus/100173.asp > > <http://www.aquariumlife.net/profiles/common-plecostomus/100173.asp>). > > > > > > > Some of these scientific names may have changed which is a > > common > > > > > > > happening in the catfish world in recent history. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Unfortunately for the "Common Pleco" fish and the fish > > keeper, "Common > > > > > > > Plecos" grow to 18" to 24" long and are not really suitable > > for the > > > > > > > majority of aquariums. A single fish needs at least a 6' to > > 8' long > > > > > > > tank and at least 75G of water volume for itself. Most are > > kept in > > > > > > > undersized tanks and never reach their full potential or > > live a full > > > > > > > life due to the stunting that ensues from being kept in > > undersized tanks. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > The Bristlenose Pleco, often referred to as BN Pleco, is > > actually from > > > > > > > a different Genera than the Hypostomus Plecostomus. The > > species name > > > > > > > for BN Plecos is Ancistrus dolichopterus (the last time I > > checked) BUT > > > > > > > both of these Genera and several others all fall under the > > family of > > > > > > > Loricariidae or "Suckermouth Catfish" > > > > > > > http://fish.mongabay.com/loricariidae.htm > > <http://fish.mongabay.com/loricariidae.htm> which also includes a profile > > > > > > for your Bristlenose Pleco on the page. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > You are probably correct that you have a male Bristlnose > > Pleco as the > > > > > > > females do not have the "bristles on their snouts or the > > bristles are > > > > > > > much less pronounced. How long have you had yours. They > > normally > > > > > > > grow to around 6" and according to my article on "How Long > > Should Your > > > > > > > Fish Live", they should live around 20 years. > > > > > > > > > http://goldlenny.blogspot.com/2007/02/how-long-should-aquarium-fish-li > > <http://goldlenny.blogspot.com/2007/02/how-long-should-aquarium-fish-li> > > > > > > > ve.htm > > > > > > > l > > > > > > > > > > > > > > You will have to give me a link to what you saw pictures of, > > described > > > > > > > as Pelco, but I'm sure it was someone falling for the myth and > > > > > > > misspelling the name of their Bristlenose Pleco as Pelco. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > > > > > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> (Links to any articles > > > > > > > referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, > > alphabetically > > > > > > > under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > > > > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] > > > > > > > On Behalf Of Jasmine > > > > > > > Sent: Saturday, June 20, 2009 9:28 PM > > > > > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > Subject: [AquaticLife] Pelco verse Bristlenose > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Can anyone tell me what the difference is between these two? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Is it just terminology or is there a difference? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I have what I've always called a male bristlenose - its > > about 5" and has > > > > > > > bristles on its head. I have seen a few photos of Pelco's > > and they look > > > > > > so > > > > > > > much like my bristlenose. > > > > > > > Thanks > > > > > > > Jasmine > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ------------------------------------ > > > > > > > > > > > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when > > replying, Thank You. > > > > > > ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , > > .·´¯`·..><((((º> > > > > > > PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT > > important to > > > > > > the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message > > MODIFY the SUBJECT > > > > > > LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- > > > > > > <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , > > .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. > > > > > > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. > > > > > > > > > > > > If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of > > unsubscribing, you > > > > > > can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My > > Membership" on the > > > > > > home page. > > > > > > > > > > > > Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com > > <mailto:aquaticlife-digest%40yahoogroups.com> to receive the digest, which > > > > > > includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email > > > > > > > > > > > > Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com > > <mailto:aquaticlife-nomail%40yahoogroups.com> for the No E-Mail option > > where > > > > > > you will still be able to read messages on the group and post > > replies. > > > > > > > > > > > > Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com > > <mailto:aquaticlife-normal%40yahoogroups.com> to receive individual > > > > > > e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 41208	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 6/22/2009
Subject: Re: The Correct Flow Rate For Your System

They weren't too slow. They were sleeping... only to be rudely awakened feeling like Jonah... except they weren't being saved by the "Whale". ;-) http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jonah I don't remember the "Jonah And The Whale" bible-school nursery rhyme (to the tune of London Bridges Falling Down) but here's that version. It's an easier read than the Wikipedia article above... if you do not know the story already. http://www.dltk-bible.com/jonah_and_the_whale2.htm And now, thousands (OK.. maybe dozens) of people will be humming the tune to London Bridges Falling Down, the rest of the day. LOL Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Amber Berglund Sent: Monday, June 22, 2009 4:26 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] The Correct Flow Rate For Your System LOL, it wasn't like I was dangling the fish in front of him y'know ;). I figure if they were too slow to get out of the way then it's a loss on my part ;) I'm not going to cry about it, but I learned a valuable lesson, research all fish before buying ;) LOL. Amber Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > > > Amber, > > I'm up for adoption... and I only expect Filet Mignon three times a week. > The other four nights can be Porterhouse, T-bones and Prime Rib. > > Oh wait... you only fed your Redtail Catfish that well. ;-) > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> (Links to any articles referenced in > above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels > and also under Archives by Year, Month) > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On Behalf Of Amber Berglund > Sent: Monday, June 22, 2009 4:07 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] The Correct Flow Rate For Your System > > I'm going to do that on the 55 gallon when I transfer them over, for > now I had to put the filters like they are since the hood is wooden > and I didn't want to mess with cutting more holes in it when the > filters were going to be on the tank for just a few months, then I > would have had to fill the holes back up later ;) LOL. > It's not exactly what I had wanted for the Hillstream loaches either, > but they seem pretty happy in there. I think the red tailed catfish > ate on though, I only count 5 lately :( *sigh* At least the "little" > monster is gone ;) LOL. > > Amber > > Harl Myers wrote: > > > > > > I would have thought for the Hillstreams, you would have put both > > intakes on one end and both returns on the other. Thus making it > > like a river flow. Place one at mid tank and one toward the bottom > > on each end... Obviously what you have works, just not what I imagined... > > :o) > > On Mon, Jun 22, 2009 at 3:03 PM, Amber > Berglund<amber@... <mailto:amber%40rose-fields.com> > > <mailto:amber%40rose-fields.com>> wrote: > > > > > > > > > I also think it has to do with how big the tank is. My 125 gallon > > > tends to have slower moving spots even though it's greatly over > > > filtered compared to how much filtration the previous owner had. I > > > have slower moving fish in the tank and they don't seem to have > > > any issues with all of the water movement, they just stick to the > > > slower moving water and when they get into the fast water they use > > > it as a push to get to where they're headed, smart little fishies ;) LOL. > > > > > > The water on the surface doesn't flow as fast as it does through > > > the middle, and on the bottom the current flows opposite as on > > > top, the middle flows oddly both sides pushing towards each other > > > since there's filters on each side of the tank pointed towards each other. > > > > > > Amber > > > > > > Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > > >> > > >> > > >> I think it depends on the fish and plants. If the fish and plants > > are from > > >> fast moving waters, then over-filtration/circulation is OK. If > > >> the fish and plants are from slow moving or stagnant waters, then > > >> over-filtration/circulation might be detrimental to the overall > > health of > > >> the fish and plants. If one has a community tank with a mixture > > >> of fish and plants from many biotopes, then something in the > > >> middle would be best. > > >> > > >> Lenny Vasbinder > > >> Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>>> > > >> (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on > > >> the > > right > > >> side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by > > >> Year, > > Month) > > >> > > >> -----Original Message----- > > >> From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > >> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > >> [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > >> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On Behalf Of aaron102272 > > >> Sent: Monday, June 22, 2009 2:04 AM > > >> To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > >> Subject: [AquaticLife] The Correct Flow Rate For Your System > > >> > > >> No not my site, thanks for asking, if it was I'm sure I would've > > >> been a lot more active here this past year > > >> > > >> the have some interesting online tools also ~ > > >> > > >> > http://www.customaquatic.com/images/webstore/content/tank-tech.html > <http://www.customaquatic.com/images/webstore/content/tank-tech.html> > > <http://www.customaquatic.com/images/webstore/content/tank-tech.html > <http://www.customaquatic.com/images/webstore/content/tank-tech.html>> > > >> > > <http://www.customaquatic.com/images/webstore/content/tank-tech.html > <http://www.customaquatic.com/images/webstore/content/tank-tech.html> > > <http://www.customaquatic.com/images/webstore/content/tank-tech.html > <http://www.customaquatic.com/images/webstore/content/tank-tech.html>> > > > > >> > > >> I used the ~ > > >> > > >> Calculate The Correct Flow Rate For Your System > > >> > > >> ~ and my actual flow rate is double the suggested for a planted > > >> tank, apparently they need a lot less flow than say a reef system > > >> - do > > you think > > >> it makes a real difference to be over on the flow rate? I have > > Fluval 305 > > >> and it can be adjusted to decrease the flow > > >> > > >> --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > >> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>, "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" > > >> <GoldLenny@...> > > >> wrote: > > >> > > > >> > Aaron, > > >> > > > >> > Is that your site? If it isn't, then it's certainly NOT spam IMO. > > >> > Heck, even if it is your site and you have the best prices in > > >> > the world, it's worth sharing... maybe adding a disclaimer that > > >> > it's your > > >> site. > > >> > > > >> > As long as you don't start using O-cea_n-P-ure in the Subject line. > > >> > LOL Exactly how many ways can the V and C words be spelled? LOL > > >> > > > >> > Lenny Vasbinder > > >> > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>> > > >> <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>>> > > (Links to any articles > > >> > referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, > > alphabetically > > >> > under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) > > >> > > > >> > > > >> > > > >> > -----Original Message----- > > >> > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > >> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > >> [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > >> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] > > >> > On Behalf Of aaron102272 > > >> > Sent: Friday, June 19, 2009 6:01 PM > > >> > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > >> > Subject: [AquaticLife] Off Topic? ~ Great Sale! @ > > >> > www.CustomAquatic.com > > >> > > > >> > https://www.customaquatic.com/ <https://www.customaquatic.com/> > <https://www.customaquatic.com/ <https://www.customaquatic.com/>> > > <https://www.customaquatic.com/ <https://www.customaquatic.com/> > <https://www.customaquatic.com/ <https://www.customaquatic.com/>>> > > >> > > > >> > 10% off all Saltwater & Freshwater Additives and Water > > >> > Conditioners ~ Hurry > > >> > - Sale ends June 24th > > >> > > > >> > and for a limited time, > > >> > take an extra 25% off Oceanpure & Oceanpure PRO Salt > > >> > > > >> > This was my first time buying from this website, they had the > > >> > lowest prices I could find for products for my Planted Tank and > > >> > the 4 Liter of Flourish Excel (I could not find any other place > > >> > that even offers the 4liter size) > > >> > > > >> > I apologize if you think this is spam, however if you happen to > > >> > know of a great website with the lowest prices available and > > >> > awesome > > sales, > > >> > I hope you too would be willing to share that info with me and > > >> > the other members in the group that might be interested in > > >> > saving some money. > > >> > > > >> > Thanks for reading, > > >> > Aaron

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 41209	From: Steve Biondi	Date: 6/22/2009
Subject: Advice

Hi All, My green Severum has a white fuzzy patch on the left side near the gills. I am not sure if this is ich. If it is, what is the best way to treat it? Tank is a 55 with a Rena3 using Purigen as the filter element. Do I need to remove the purigen when I add the ich cure? Thanks, Steve [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 41210	From: Raymond Wetzel	Date: 6/22/2009
Subject: Re: Why do Algae blooms only occur in my 55 Gallon?/ update NEW plan

Not much help, even though dead leaves should be removed from any plant as general maintenance. Yes, both can just float (even though the Water Sprite happens to be potted now). Right now, your Water Sprite will have longer stems and longer & more pointier leaves. As this plant multiplies as plant-letts grown on the edges of the large plant's leaves, these new plants will tend to be fuller -- having shorter stems and shorter but wider and generally more "rounder" (fuller) leaves, still with the attractive varied notches though. The Anacharis will start growing roots all along its stem. Not much more care is needed -- they should both do well on their own. As Anacharis is usually sold in bunches, I would guess that you have more than just two strands. The bunch should usually not be kept tied tightly together, especially when planting in the substrate, but I don't believe it would be detrimental if you preferred to keep them tied as a bunch while floating; they should still get adequate light. Ray --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Gail" <clandestine662002@...> wrote: > > Okay, after some much needed advice from you all. I purchased some plants. I was able to find a Water Sprite and two Anacharis. So my question is "NOW WHAT?" lol > > Any recommendations on special care? I asked the girl at the big box store as to how to care for them; she stated, "if a leaf dies, pluck it off and that is it" - Not real specific, huh? > I know the Water sprite is potted, however the Anacharis is not; can't both just float and they grow fine? > > I am a total "newbie" with the whole plant thing - not exactly the green thumb type. :D > > thanks all!! > gail > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@> wrote: > > > > The BIG THREE things for plants (and them unwanted single celled plants = > > Algae) is Lighting, CO2 & Nutrients. > > > > A heavier bioload could certainly be part of the problem as the heavier > > bioload would mean more fish poop and pee (ammonia, nitrates, phosphates) > > which are the principle feeding NUTRIENTS for plants and algae are single > > celled plants. The heavier bioload also means higher carbon and CO2 levels > > in the water from the fish breathing and from the detritus decaying and > > putting out carbonic acid. The LIGHTING could also be part of the problem. > > You have to look at the actual bulbs for any writing on them. The "blue" > > tube is likely an actinic light and the "white" tube could be fluorescent or > > compact fluorescent or other. Give us all the information/writing off of > > the bulbs, usually on one end. This would include wattage, lumens, item > > number, etc. > > > > Here's a two part article about planted tanks, that originally appeared in > > TFH Magazine, I think in 2006, and the second part of the article talks more > > about algae and will likely answer all/most of your questions. > > > > PART 1 - http://naturalaquariums.com/plantedtank/0509.html > > > > PART 2 - http://naturalaquariums.com/plantedtank/0510.html > > > > Doing more frequent tank maintenance (gravel vacuuming, proper filter > > cleaning, PWC's) on the tank with the heavier bioload and algae issues would > > be the first thing as this would lower the available nutrients and lower the > > CO2 level in the tank. The lighting, we can answer more once we know more. > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > > (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right > > side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On > > Behalf Of gail > > Sent: Monday, June 15, 2009 4:37 PM > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > Subject: [AquaticLife] Why do Algae blooms only occur in my 55 Gallon? > > > > Okay, I have been having algae blooms only occuring in my 55 gallon. > > Is it because it is my most populated tank? Or could it be due to that, and > > the light fixture on it? I currently have a light on it, that came with it. > > I bought it at a yard sale last summer, and the guy just told me that the > > lights were benneficial for Coral. It has two lights inside of it, a blue > > florescent and a white florescent. And it has a cooling fan on the light > > fixture, but that is all that I know about it. > > Can anyone here, outline the Typical causes of an algae bloom? > >   > > Thanks! > > Gail > > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 41211	From: Raymond Wetzel	Date: 6/22/2009
Subject: Re: Advice

Sounds like a Fungus, wouldn't be Ich as that appears as tiny white spots as though sprinkled with salt. You should first try to find out the root cause of this disease, which may often occur as a result of poor water conditions. An injury will also bring this on, but again, poor water will exacerbate the condition. Check your water parameters for excess nitrogenous wastes (ammonia, nitrite, nitrate). Always best to change out at least 25% of the water before treatment -- more, as needed, if your parameters are elevated (you'll need to correct any source of waste excesses). Furan II is one of the best medications for treatment against Fungus. Ray --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Steve Biondi" <parkpac@...> wrote: > > Hi All, > > My green Severum has a white fuzzy patch on the left side near the gills. I > am not sure if this is ich. If it is, what is the best way to treat it? > Tank is a 55 with a Rena3 using Purigen as the filter element. Do I need to > remove the purigen when I add the ich cure? > > Thanks, Steve > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 41212	From: bill 1433	Date: 6/22/2009
Subject: Re: Water testing with crushed coral

Amber,   I did not notice, but if you put an air stone in the bucket, it will speed this process up.   Bill --- On Mon, 6/22/09, Amber Berglund <amber@...> wrote: From: Amber Berglund <amber@...> Subject: [AquaticLife] Water testing with crushed coral To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Date: Monday, June 22, 2009, 5:14 PM I have a bucket filled about a 1/4 of the way with crushed coral and the rest of it with water. I have been doing daily pH testing to see what the pH averages out to, so far each day has tested somewhere close to 7.6. If I were to add crushed coral to my fish tanks inside the filters in a bag would it change my pH so drastically or would it be something gradual that happens with water changes? The bucket has been sitting since friday night. I tested right after I filled it with water and it tested at 7.6 as well, so it could be that it just hasn't lowered from my tap water pH because there's nothing else in the tank to lower the pH (such as plants)? Amber ------------------------------------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the home page.  Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com to receive the digest, which includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com for the No E-Mail option where you will still be able to read messages on the group and post replies. Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com to receive individual e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 41213	From: ladyjadewindrunner	Date: 6/22/2009
Subject: A question about Plecos

Helloooooo I was wondering, being as Plecos aren't exactly something I specialize in, what can I get to clean the algae off of my tank without also eating my lovely plants? I've heard that Rubbernose plecos are good because they stay small, and I have only a 20gal tank. Some recommended a few other types, but after some research most of them were omnivores that had a tendency to prey upon other fish, or required some sort of live food to be given to them - and frankly I've had trouble with buying live food for my fish where I am as they tend to get parasites from them! So, I'm wide open to suggestions for a nice, small, herbivorous and docile pleco :) Thank you! ~Jade

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 41214	From: Donna Ransome	Date: 6/22/2009
Subject: Re: A question about Plecos

Otolincus. Providing your water parameters and tankmates are compatible. _____ From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of ladyjadewindrunner Sent: Monday, June 22, 2009 6:21 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] A question about Plecos Helloooooo I was wondering, being as Plecos aren't exactly something I specialize in, what can I get to clean the algae off of my tank without also eating my lovely plants? I've heard that Rubbernose plecos are good because they stay small, and I have only a 20gal tank. Some recommended a few other types, but after some research most of them were omnivores that had a tendency to prey upon other fish, or required some sort of live food to be given to them - and frankly I've had trouble with buying live food for my fish where I am as they tend to get parasites from them! So, I'm wide open to suggestions for a nice, small, herbivorous and docile pleco :) Thank you! ~Jade [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 41215	From: Gail	Date: 6/22/2009
Subject: Re: Why do Algae blooms only occur in my 55 Gallon?/ update NEW plan

ha ha thanks for the imput. I have left the Anacharis bound for now, it has already been moved (by my fish). I will undo them and try to put them in the substrate, however, my Blood parrot may have other plans for how the tank is decorated. lol so far, I have had pieces of the Water sprite, that broke off.... I just left them floating, in hopes they may grow. :D so far so good. I will keep at it and hopefully I will have the algae bloom gone soon and a nicely planted tank or floating plant tank ;) thanks! Gail --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Raymond Wetzel" <sevenspringss@...> wrote: > > Not much help, even though dead leaves should be removed from any plant as general maintenance. Yes, both can just float (even though the Water Sprite happens to be potted now). Right now, your Water Sprite will have longer stems and longer & more pointier leaves. As this plant multiplies as plant-letts grown on the edges of the large plant's leaves, these new plants will tend to be fuller -- having shorter stems and shorter but wider and generally more "rounder" (fuller) leaves, still with the attractive varied notches though. > > The Anacharis will start growing roots all along its stem. Not much more care is needed -- they should both do well on their own. As Anacharis is usually sold in bunches, I would guess that you have more than just two strands. The bunch should usually not be kept tied tightly together, especially when planting in the substrate, but I don't believe it would be detrimental if you preferred to keep them tied as a bunch while floating; they should still get adequate light. Ray > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Gail" <clandestine662002@> wrote: > > > > Okay, after some much needed advice from you all. I purchased some plants. I was able to find a Water Sprite and two Anacharis. So my question is "NOW WHAT?" lol > > > > Any recommendations on special care? I asked the girl at the big box store as to how to care for them; she stated, "if a leaf dies, pluck it off and that is it" - Not real specific, huh? > > I know the Water sprite is potted, however the Anacharis is not; can't both just float and they grow fine? > > > > I am a total "newbie" with the whole plant thing - not exactly the green thumb type. :D > > > > thanks all!! > > gail > > > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 41216	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 6/22/2009
Subject: Re: Now: About Angel fish Re: [AquaticLife] Was: Pelco verse Bristl

Ah yes, after looking over Jasmine's Angel's I see what you mean about the hump, mine are not like that at all, they are more like her "koi" Angel. By the way Jasmine, your Koi Angel is gorgeous, mine does not look nearly as pretty, he has very little black spotting, and only an orange head. Your male with the noticeable hump is also very nice looking. My male also has a V shaped belly region and the female is more of a U, like you had pointed out in the other post on the differences between the sexes of Angel's. Amber Raymond Wetzel wrote: > > > Hi Amber, You're entirely welcome, I hope you've been able to put the > info to good use. I do see that you've been able to find many of these > differences in your pairs, I'm pleased to see. At least now you'll > know what to look for in Angelfish in the future if you get any > additions. The "nuchal hump" on some males' heads usually only occur > as they get older, as with many other Cichlids which develop this. > It's not often that obvious until these males get quite large. This > trait is readily seen in Jasmine's male Angel in her 12th photo > (posted 6/21). This is the darker colored fish having the most black, > and it's facing towards the left. > > In general, as with many other New World Cichlids, if there is any > size difference it's the males that are more inclined to be larger. I > say, "if there is any size difference," as this trait cannot be > depended upon as a method of sexual dimorphism. Often enough, in > Angels both sexes may be of similar size. Still, usually when there is > an obvious size difference, it is the male which will tend to be > larger. I need to point out though, that this is not the case 100% of > the time (my reasson for saying "usually"); A while back, I had a > female which was at least as large or larger than any male I've ever > seen -- so even though rare, at least a few females may occassionally > be larger even than a larger than average male. With your female, it's > more probable that she will never catch up in size, only because they > tend to be smaller on average. As males get larger, they will get > wider, especially more noticeable through the head, but should still > have a "V" shaped belly region -- unless just recently well fed. > > Ray > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>, Amber Berglund <amber@...> wrote: > > > > I thank you for all the info you've recently posted on Angel's Ray, I > > myself went to my tank to see if I could see the differences pointed > out > > and most of them were present in my pair. The only one that I could not > > see was the "hump" on my male, both of mine have a slight hump but > > nothing pronounced at all. > > I also notice this ability to contract or widen their dorsal fin, but > > only my male does it as my female appears to have a bent dorsal fin as > > well. > > Is there a size difference between males/females? My male is bigger but > > he is also older than my female so I always figured she would catch up > > some day in size. I do notice that the male is thicker through the > > middle than the female (wider if you want to say), the male's head is > > wider than the female's. > > > > Amber > > > > > Raymond Wetzel wrote: > > > > > > > > > Hi Jasmine, The other Angelfish that you posted yesterday, that you > > > feel is a female is actually the male. This Angelfish that you just > > > posted today, in the right forefront (with the male in the left > > > background) in both recent photos, is the female. You have them > > > reversed in you diagnosis of their sex. If anyone told you about the > > > dorsal fin's ability as being contractable in Angelfish as a trait in > > > determining male Angels, they are completely wrong. This ability to > > > contract or widen the Dorsal fin is present in many Angels, to > varying > > > degrees. The main reason why your other Angelfish (the one you > believe > > > to be a female) is not seen to show this trait is because it's Dorsal > > > fin is bent. > > > > > > As for the position of the anus in Angels, while the pores for the > > > breeding tubes of fish are located to the rear of the anus, the > male's > > > anus is located farther back than the female's -- somewhat closer to > > > his breeding tube. If you saw one of these two Angelfish excreting > > > towards the back of the Angelfish's body, this is just one more > reason > > > why it would be a male. > > > > > > In Cichlids, Angelfish included, if you were to net and remove each > > > fish from the tank and invert it to observe the position and > > > appearance of their sexual organs in relation to their anus (this > > > procedure is called "venting"), you would find a figure-8 > > > configuration of these two openings in the male, showing you the > close > > > proximity of his gential pore to his anal pore, as the borders of > both > > > of these pores join. In the female, you would see two distinctly > > > separate pore openings, with the anal pore located a short distance > > > away (slightly forward) from her gential opening, creating a gap of > > > plain body tissue (skin) between them -- this area would appear as > two > > > separate "O's" as "O O" (rather than as "OO" in the male). So by > this, > > > you should be able to see that it's the male that has been excreting > > > more towards the rear of his body. "Venting" can best be seen in > > > larger Cichlids, such as Oscars, but is observable in all Cichlids, > > > displaying their sexual differences. > > > > > > If you can see the male's breeding tube facing forward, and the > > > female's breeding tube facing backward, you're GOOD! Granted, > there is > > > a slight slant to these tubes when extended, but so slight in > > > Angelfish that it's barely perceptable. For all intents and purposes, > > > when these fish are breeding, both of their tubes appear to extend > > > straight down. The female's ovipositor is thicker and blunt on the > > > end, whereas the male's breeding tube is conical in shape, coming > to a > > > point. > > > > > > As for the "exiled" Angelfish, as it's position in the photo does not > > > lend to a good view in determining its sex, I really can't tell if > > > it's a male or female, but the fact that it will contract or expand > > > its Dorsal fin does not preclude its being a female. > > > > > > The much mellower behavior of the pair towards the "exiled" (yellow, > > > silver-striped) Angel at night when the lighting is more subdued is > > > not strange at all -- and can be expected -- just as much as when the > > > lights are on during the day, that the pair harasses this lone > > > Angelfish. For this same reason, while Angels (and Angelfish pairs) > > > will all behave somewhat differently within the confines of the > > > extablished behavior of this species, it's always best to breed these > > > fish in more subdued light -- unless they are being housed in a much > > > larger than ordinary tank. The sense of sight in fishes is one of the > > > prime (if not, THE prime) source of these animals' environmental > > > stimuli input. The greater the light intensity, the greater is the > > > "glaring" of their view of their surroundings including that of their > > > conspecifics as a stimulus to their brain and what (and how) they > > > perceive their conspecifics; this includes the stimuli they > receive as > > > how they perceive their mates as well. > > > > > > If the image they are receiving of an intruder conspecific, such as > > > this lone Angelfish, is especially glaring from brighter lighting, > the > > > stimuli of the presence of this fish in their (the pair's) > vicinity is > > > increasingly strong -- to the point the it can be interpreted as > > > challenging. Likewise, for a pair which may be ordinarily high-strung > > > towards each other in behavior, compared to the norm of Angelfish > > > behavior. With such pairs, it's especially important not to keep > > > bright lights on them. Such intense visual stimuli as a "glaring" > > > image of their mate can be interpreted as challenging. More subdued > > > lighting always defuses such a situation, regardless of any Angelfish > > > pair's individual behavior. Ray > > > > > > P.S.: Please reread my recent post on sexing Angelfish. You should be > > > able to see the obvious traits I've pointed out in both sexes as > > > relates to your pair. > > > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>, "Jasmine" <adonaikam@> wrote: > > > > > > > > Hi Ray > > > > > > > > We believe it to be a female mainly because the angel fish that it > > > seems to have paired off with – we believe to be a male angel. There > > > are two reasons why we believe it to be a male: > > > > 1. Its dorsal fin can either be extended or contracted to look like > > > a needle (probably the best way to describe it, and > > > > 2. On occasions when I have noticed it doing a poo, it tends to > > > excrete toward the front of the angel and the angel we believe to > be a > > > female – well, they tend to excrete toward the back of the angel. > > > > > > > > I have been told that to sex an angel is best done by looking at > > > their sex organs. Males face forward and females face backward. > > > > With regards to the dorsal fins, I have added 3 new photo's – these > > > are not as clear though. > > > > > > > > Photo 1 - titled `Angels that have paired off #1' shows (what we > > > believe to be) female on the left and male on the right. The angel on > > > the right, you will notice its dorsal fin is expanded. > > > > > > > > Photo 2 - titled `Angels that have paired off #2' the same two > > > angels. This time the dorsal fin on the yellow one is contracted in a > > > needle like fashion. > > > > > > > > Photo 3 – titled `exiled angel' - this angel has been continually > > > chased away once the other two paired off. We believe this one to > be a > > > male also as it does the same thing with its dorsal fin. > > > > > > > > The strange thing is, the yellow/silver stripped angel (from photo > > > 3) can come out at night and not get harassed at all. It can swim > > > quite freely BUT when the lights come on, it is chased. > > > > > > > > Jasmine > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>, "Raymond Wetzel" > > > <sevenspringss@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > Jasmine, Real nice fish photography, you must have a good camera > > > to get good (sharp) close ups like this. Question: What makes you > > > believe that your large Marble Angelfish is a female? Ray > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>, "Jasmine" <adonaikam@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > Thank you Lenny > > > > > > > > > > > > I've had a look at all the sites and yes I'm pretty sure its a > > > Bristlenose pleco. > > > > > > > > > > > > I had fun tonight taking photos of my fish after I fed them. I > > > have updated a few more photos. Marjority of which were of the > > > bristlenose pleco - some nice close up shots. > > > > > > > > > > > > Jasmine > > > > > > > > > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>, "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" > > > <GoldLenny@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I just looked at your picture and you definitely have a > > > Bristlenose pleco > > > > > > > (catfish) a/k/a bushynose pleco (catfish). Many sites will > > > call it a > > > > > > > Bristlenose catfish instead of pleco since pleco would > suggest > > > it's a H. > > > > > > > plecostomus, which it's not. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > A search on PlanetCatfish.com, one of the most extensive > > > websites on the net > > > > > > > about all things catfish, has several species of Bristlenose > > > catfish, as > > > > > > > well as albino variants but yours is not an albino so look at > > > the below > > > > > > > profiles and click on the pictures and compare yours to find > > > out which > > > > > > > Ancistrus species you have. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > http://www.planetcatfish.com/catelog/species.php?species_id=49 > <http://www.planetcatfish.com/catelog/species.php?species_id=49> > > > <http://www.planetcatfish.com/catelog/species.php?species_id=49 > <http://www.planetcatfish.com/catelog/species.php?species_id=49>> > > > Ancistrus cf. > > > > > > > cirrhosus > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > http://www.planetcatfish.com/catelog/species.php?species_id=152 > <http://www.planetcatfish.com/catelog/species.php?species_id=152> > > > <http://www.planetcatfish.com/catelog/species.php?species_id=152 > <http://www.planetcatfish.com/catelog/species.php?species_id=152>> > > > Ancistrus > > > > > > > claro > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > http://www.planetcatfish.com/catelog/species.php?species_id=221 > <http://www.planetcatfish.com/catelog/species.php?species_id=221> > > > <http://www.planetcatfish.com/catelog/species.php?species_id=221 > <http://www.planetcatfish.com/catelog/species.php?species_id=221>> > > > Ancistrus > > > > > > > dolichopterus > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > http://www.planetcatfish.com/catelog/species.php?species_id=48 > <http://www.planetcatfish.com/catelog/species.php?species_id=48> > > > <http://www.planetcatfish.com/catelog/species.php?species_id=48 > <http://www.planetcatfish.com/catelog/species.php?species_id=48>> > Ancistrus > > > > > > > tamboensis > > > > > > > > > > > > > > These other reputable websites have even more species or > > > variants listed. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > http://www.aquariumlife.net/profiles/plecostamus/bristle-nose-pleco/100049.a > <http://www.aquariumlife.net/profiles/plecostamus/bristle-nose-pleco/100049.a> > > > > > <http://www.aquariumlife.net/profiles/plecostamus/bristle-nose-pleco/100049.a > <http://www.aquariumlife.net/profiles/plecostamus/bristle-nose-pleco/100049.a>> > > > > > > > sp Ancistrus temminckii > > > > > > > > > > > > > > This site is more about the generic Ancistrus sp. and has > lots > > > of comments > > > > > > > from other BN Pleco keepers. You'll see there are 3 pages of > > > comments if > > > > > > > you want to read them all. Of course, check out comments > > > before taking them > > > > > > > as fact. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > http://www.aquahobby.com/gallery/e_bristle.php > <http://www.aquahobby.com/gallery/e_bristle.php> > > > <http://www.aquahobby.com/gallery/e_bristle.php > <http://www.aquahobby.com/gallery/e_bristle.php>> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Let us know which one you have. If you can't figure it out, > > > then you will > > > > > > > need to get better pictures and post them here and see if one > > > of us can. > > > > > > > Take front and side pics with the fins extended, if possible. > > > I hear that > > > > > > > playing Madonna's Vogue song will cause people and fish to > > > "strike a pose". > > > > > > > ;-) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > > > > > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>> > > > > > > > (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are > listed on > > > the right > > > > > > > side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by > > > Year, Month) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > > > > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On > > > > > > > Behalf Of Jasmine > > > > > > > Sent: Saturday, June 20, 2009 11:51 PM > > > > > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Pelco verse Bristlenose > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Hi Lenny > > > > > > > > > > > > > > It was all me, I spelt it wrong. I simply spelt it > > > phonetically the way I > > > > > > > pronounce it. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > From viewing the hyperlinks you provided and reading what you > > > wrote – it > > > > > > > appears I may have a Bushy Nose Pleco. I got my camera and > > > went to take a > > > > > > > photo but, it was in hiding. It's been hiding a lot over the > > > last couple of > > > > > > > weeks and has only just started venturing out. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I can't be sure how long we have had him for, I did find a > > > photo of him > > > > > > > which was taken back in January this year (its a poor shot > but > > > I can make > > > > > > > out it was him). When I got him he already had bristles. I > > > don't think we > > > > > > > have had him more than a year. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I'll try and get a shot and post it for you. In the mean > time, > > > I did manage > > > > > > > to get a good shot of one of our newest BN – I just need to > > > recharge the > > > > > > > battery on the camera before I can do anything  > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Jasmine > > > > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>, "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" > > > <GoldLenny@> > > > > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I'm not sure if you accidentally misspelled Pleco when you > > > referred to > > > > > > > > it as Pelco but that is a common internet myth about this > > > group of fish. > > > > > > > > According to the myth, if you spell Pleco as Pleco and not > > > misspell it > > > > > > > > as Pelco or Pl*co or Plec, your Pleco will die. PLECO, > > > PLECO, PLECO, > > > > > > > > PLECO, PLECO, PLECO, PLECO. I just checked and my Clown > > > Pleco is > > > > > > > > still fine. ;-) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > The term or common name, Pleco, should have probably been > > > called > > > > > > > > "Suckermouth Catfish" instead of Pleco, but I guess > Pleco is > > > nice and > > > > > > > short. > > > > > > > > The general term Pleco probably became the most commonly > > > used term as > > > > > > > > it is short for Hypostomus Plecostomus which is the one of > > > the several > > > > > > > > species that are commonly referred to as "Common Pleco" in > > > pet stores. > > > > > > > > Other species included and commonly sold as "Common > Plecos" are > > > > > > > > Pterygoplichthys pardalis, Acipenser plecostomus, Hypostomus > > > > > > > > punctatus, Liposarcus multiradiatus, Liposarcus pardalis, > > > Plecostomus > > > > > > > plecostomus (from: > > > > > > > > > > > http://www.aquariumlife.net/profiles/common-plecostomus/100173.asp > <http://www.aquariumlife.net/profiles/common-plecostomus/100173.asp> > > > > <http://www.aquariumlife.net/profiles/common-plecostomus/100173.asp > <http://www.aquariumlife.net/profiles/common-plecostomus/100173.asp>>). > > > > > > > > Some of these scientific names may have changed which is a > > > common > > > > > > > > happening in the catfish world in recent history. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Unfortunately for the "Common Pleco" fish and the fish > > > keeper, "Common > > > > > > > > Plecos" grow to 18" to 24" long and are not really suitable > > > for the > > > > > > > > majority of aquariums. A single fish needs at least a 6' to > > > 8' long > > > > > > > > tank and at least 75G of water volume for itself. Most are > > > kept in > > > > > > > > undersized tanks and never reach their full potential or > > > live a full > > > > > > > > life due to the stunting that ensues from being kept in > > > undersized tanks. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > The Bristlenose Pleco, often referred to as BN Pleco, is > > > actually from > > > > > > > > a different Genera than the Hypostomus Plecostomus. The > > > species name > > > > > > > > for BN Plecos is Ancistrus dolichopterus (the last time I > > > checked) BUT > > > > > > > > both of these Genera and several others all fall under the > > > family of > > > > > > > > Loricariidae or "Suckermouth Catfish" > > > > > > > > http://fish.mongabay.com/loricariidae.htm > <http://fish.mongabay.com/loricariidae.htm> > > > <http://fish.mongabay.com/loricariidae.htm > <http://fish.mongabay.com/loricariidae.htm>> which also includes a profile > > > > > > > for your Bristlenose Pleco on the page. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > You are probably correct that you have a male Bristlnose > > > Pleco as the > > > > > > > > females do not have the "bristles on their snouts or the > > > bristles are > > > > > > > > much less pronounced. How long have you had yours. They > > > normally > > > > > > > > grow to around 6" and according to my article on "How Long > > > Should Your > > > > > > > > Fish Live", they should live around 20 years. > > > > > > > > > > > > http://goldlenny.blogspot.com/2007/02/how-long-should-aquarium-fish-li > <http://goldlenny.blogspot.com/2007/02/how-long-should-aquarium-fish-li> > > > > <http://goldlenny.blogspot.com/2007/02/how-long-should-aquarium-fish-li > <http://goldlenny.blogspot.com/2007/02/how-long-should-aquarium-fish-li>> > > > > > > > > ve.htm > > > > > > > > l > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > You will have to give me a link to what you saw pictures > of, > > > described > > > > > > > > as Pelco, but I'm sure it was someone falling for the > myth and > > > > > > > > misspelling the name of their Bristlenose Pleco as Pelco. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > > > > > > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>> > (Links to any articles > > > > > > > > referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, > > > alphabetically > > > > > > > > under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > > > > > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] > > > > > > > > On Behalf Of Jasmine > > > > > > > > Sent: Saturday, June 20, 2009 9:28 PM > > > > > > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > > Subject: [AquaticLife] Pelco verse Bristlenose > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Can anyone tell me what the difference is between these two? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Is it just terminology or is there a difference? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I have what I've always called a male bristlenose - its > > > about 5" and has > > > > > > > > bristles on its head. I have seen a few photos of Pelco's > > > and they look > > > > > > > so > > > > > > > > much like my bristlenose. > > > > > > > > Thanks > > > > > > > > Jasmine > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ------------------------------------ > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when > > > replying, Thank You. > > > > > > > ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , > > > .·´¯`·..><((((º> > > > > > > > PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT > > > important to > > > > > > > the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message > > > MODIFY the SUBJECT > > > > > > > LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- > > > > > > > <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , > > > .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. > > > > > > > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of > > > unsubscribing, you > > > > > > > can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My > > > Membership" on the > > > > > > > home page. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:aquaticlife-digest%40yahoogroups.com> > > > <mailto:aquaticlife-digest%40yahoogroups.com> to receive the > digest, which > > > > > > > includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:aquaticlife-nomail%40yahoogroups.com> > > > <mailto:aquaticlife-nomail%40yahoogroups.com> for the No E-Mail > option > > > where > > > > > > > you will still be able to read messages on the group and post > > > replies. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:aquaticlife-normal%40yahoogroups.com> > > > <mailto:aquaticlife-normal%40yahoogroups.com> to receive individual > > > > > > > e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 41217	From: Steve Biondi	Date: 6/22/2009
Subject: Re: Advice

Hi Ray, Thanks for the advice. Will get my water parameters and try to post tonight. Guessing that it might have been caused by injury . There are only two fish in the tank right now. Ph is low but I don't think that the nitrates or ammonia would be the culprit. I will try to take a picture and post if you think that would help to indentify the cause. Steve _____ From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Raymond Wetzel Sent: Monday, June 22, 2009 3:32 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Advice Sounds like a Fungus, wouldn't be Ich as that appears as tiny white spots as though sprinkled with salt. You should first try to find out the root cause of this disease, which may often occur as a result of poor water conditions. An injury will also bring this on, but again, poor water will exacerbate the condition. Check your water parameters for excess nitrogenous wastes (ammonia, nitrite, nitrate). Always best to change out at least 25% of the water before treatment -- more, as needed, if your parameters are elevated (you'll need to correct any source of waste excesses). Furan II is one of the best medications for treatment against Fungus. Ray --- In AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com, "Steve Biondi" <parkpac@...> wrote: > > Hi All, > > My green Severum has a white fuzzy patch on the left side near the gills. I > am not sure if this is ich. If it is, what is the best way to treat it? > Tank is a 55 with a Rena3 using Purigen as the filter element. Do I need to > remove the purigen when I add the ich cure? > > Thanks, Steve > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 41218	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 6/22/2009
Subject: Re: The Correct Flow Rate For Your System

LOL, well at least with the Hillstreams I know it was because they're slower, they move is short "spurts". They are also active all night. I watch them creep over to the Angel's area where they have their eggs laid and try to catch a midnight snack while the Angel's are sleeping ;) LOL You're full of all sorts of info sometimes Lenny ;) LOL. (I didn't say useless in there btw, so I think it's a compliment) Amber Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > > > They weren't too slow. They were sleeping... only to be rudely awakened > feeling like Jonah... except they weren't being saved by the "Whale". ;-) > http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jonah <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jonah> > > I don't remember the "Jonah And The Whale" bible-school nursery rhyme (to > the tune of London Bridges Falling Down) but here's that version. It's an > easier read than the Wikipedia article above... if you do not know the > story > already. > http://www.dltk-bible.com/jonah_and_the_whale2.htm > <http://www.dltk-bible.com/jonah_and_the_whale2.htm> > > And now, thousands (OK.. maybe dozens) of people will be humming the > tune to > London Bridges Falling Down, the rest of the day. LOL > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right > side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On > Behalf Of Amber Berglund > Sent: Monday, June 22, 2009 4:26 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] The Correct Flow Rate For Your System > > LOL, it wasn't like I was dangling the fish in front of him y'know ;). > I figure if they were too slow to get out of the way then it's a loss > on my > part ;) I'm not going to cry about it, but I learned a valuable lesson, > research all fish before buying ;) LOL. > > Amber > > Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > > > > > > Amber, > > > > I'm up for adoption... and I only expect Filet Mignon three times a > week. > > The other four nights can be Porterhouse, T-bones and Prime Rib. > > > > Oh wait... you only fed your Redtail Catfish that well. ;-) > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>> > (Links to any articles referenced in > > above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels > > and also under Archives by Year, Month) > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On Behalf Of Amber Berglund > > Sent: Monday, June 22, 2009 4:07 PM > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] The Correct Flow Rate For Your System > > > > I'm going to do that on the 55 gallon when I transfer them over, for > > now I had to put the filters like they are since the hood is wooden > > and I didn't want to mess with cutting more holes in it when the > > filters were going to be on the tank for just a few months, then I > > would have had to fill the holes back up later ;) LOL. > > It's not exactly what I had wanted for the Hillstream loaches either, > > but they seem pretty happy in there. I think the red tailed catfish > > ate on though, I only count 5 lately :( *sigh* At least the "little" > > monster is gone ;) LOL. > > > > Amber > > > > Harl Myers wrote: > > > > > > > > > I would have thought for the Hillstreams, you would have put both > > > intakes on one end and both returns on the other. Thus making it > > > like a river flow. Place one at mid tank and one toward the bottom > > > on each end... Obviously what you have works, just not what I > imagined... > > > :o) > > > On Mon, Jun 22, 2009 at 3:03 PM, Amber > > Berglund<amber@... <mailto:amber%40rose-fields.com> > <mailto:amber%40rose-fields.com> > > > <mailto:amber%40rose-fields.com>> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > I also think it has to do with how big the tank is. My 125 gallon > > > > tends to have slower moving spots even though it's greatly over > > > > filtered compared to how much filtration the previous owner had. I > > > > have slower moving fish in the tank and they don't seem to have > > > > any issues with all of the water movement, they just stick to the > > > > slower moving water and when they get into the fast water they use > > > > it as a push to get to where they're headed, smart little fishies ;) > LOL. > > > > > > > > The water on the surface doesn't flow as fast as it does through > > > > the middle, and on the bottom the current flows opposite as on > > > > top, the middle flows oddly both sides pushing towards each other > > > > since there's filters on each side of the tank pointed towards each > other. > > > > > > > > Amber > > > > > > > > Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > > > >> > > > >> > > > >> I think it depends on the fish and plants. If the fish and plants > > > are from > > > >> fast moving waters, then over-filtration/circulation is OK. If > > > >> the fish and plants are from slow moving or stagnant waters, then > > > >> over-filtration/circulation might be detrimental to the overall > > > health of > > > >> the fish and plants. If one has a community tank with a mixture > > > >> of fish and plants from many biotopes, then something in the > > > >> middle would be best. > > > >> > > > >> Lenny Vasbinder > > > >> Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>> > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>>> > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>> > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>>>> > > > >> (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on > > > >> the > > > right > > > >> side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by > > > >> Year, > > > Month) > > > >> > > > >> -----Original Message----- > > > >> From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > >> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > >> [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > >> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On Behalf Of aaron102272 > > > >> Sent: Monday, June 22, 2009 2:04 AM > > > >> To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > >> Subject: [AquaticLife] The Correct Flow Rate For Your System > > > >> > > > >> No not my site, thanks for asking, if it was I'm sure I would've > > > >> been a lot more active here this past year > > > >> > > > >> the have some interesting online tools also ~ > > > >> > > > >> > > http://www.customaquatic.com/images/webstore/content/tank-tech.html > <http://www.customaquatic.com/images/webstore/content/tank-tech.html> > > <http://www.customaquatic.com/images/webstore/content/tank-tech.html > <http://www.customaquatic.com/images/webstore/content/tank-tech.html>> > > > > <http://www.customaquatic.com/images/webstore/content/tank-tech.html > <http://www.customaquatic.com/images/webstore/content/tank-tech.html> > > <http://www.customaquatic.com/images/webstore/content/tank-tech.html > <http://www.customaquatic.com/images/webstore/content/tank-tech.html>>> > > > >> > > > > <http://www.customaquatic.com/images/webstore/content/tank-tech.html > <http://www.customaquatic.com/images/webstore/content/tank-tech.html> > > <http://www.customaquatic.com/images/webstore/content/tank-tech.html > <http://www.customaquatic.com/images/webstore/content/tank-tech.html>> > > > > <http://www.customaquatic.com/images/webstore/content/tank-tech.html > <http://www.customaquatic.com/images/webstore/content/tank-tech.html> > > <http://www.customaquatic.com/images/webstore/content/tank-tech.html > <http://www.customaquatic.com/images/webstore/content/tank-tech.html>>> > > > > > > >> > > > >> I used the ~ > > > >> > > > >> Calculate The Correct Flow Rate For Your System > > > >> > > > >> ~ and my actual flow rate is double the suggested for a planted > > > >> tank, apparently they need a lot less flow than say a reef system > > > >> - do > > > you think > > > >> it makes a real difference to be over on the flow rate? I have > > > Fluval 305 > > > >> and it can be adjusted to decrease the flow > > > >> > > > >> --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > >> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>, "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" > > > >> <GoldLenny@...> > > > >> wrote: > > > >> > > > > >> > Aaron, > > > >> > > > > >> > Is that your site? If it isn't, then it's certainly NOT spam IMO. > > > >> > Heck, even if it is your site and you have the best prices in > > > >> > the world, it's worth sharing... maybe adding a disclaimer that > > > >> > it's your > > > >> site. > > > >> > > > > >> > As long as you don't start using O-cea_n-P-ure in the Subject > line. > > > >> > LOL Exactly how many ways can the V and C words be spelled? LOL > > > >> > > > > >> > Lenny Vasbinder > > > >> > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>> > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>>> > > > >> <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>> > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>>>> > > > (Links to any articles > > > >> > referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, > > > alphabetically > > > >> > under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > -----Original Message----- > > > >> > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > >> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > >> [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > >> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] > > > >> > On Behalf Of aaron102272 > > > >> > Sent: Friday, June 19, 2009 6:01 PM > > > >> > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > >> > Subject: [AquaticLife] Off Topic? ~ Great Sale! @ > > > >> > www.CustomAquatic.com > > > >> > > > > >> > https://www.customaquatic.com/ > <https://www.customaquatic.com/> <https://www.customaquatic.com/ > <https://www.customaquatic.com/>> > > <https://www.customaquatic.com/ <https://www.customaquatic.com/> > <https://www.customaquatic.com/ <https://www.customaquatic.com/>>> > > > <https://www.customaquatic.com/ <https://www.customaquatic.com/> > <https://www.customaquatic.com/ <https://www.customaquatic.com/>> > > <https://www.customaquatic.com/ <https://www.customaquatic.com/> > <https://www.customaquatic.com/ <https://www.customaquatic.com/>>>> > > > >> > > > > >> > 10% off all Saltwater & Freshwater Additives and Water > > > >> > Conditioners ~ Hurry > > > >> > - Sale ends June 24th > > > >> > > > > >> > and for a limited time, > > > >> > take an extra 25% off Oceanpure & Oceanpure PRO Salt > > > >> > > > > >> > This was my first time buying from this website, they had the > > > >> > lowest prices I could find for products for my Planted Tank and > > > >> > the 4 Liter of Flourish Excel (I could not find any other place > > > >> > that even offers the 4liter size) > > > >> > > > > >> > I apologize if you think this is spam, however if you happen to > > > >> > know of a great website with the lowest prices available and > > > >> > awesome > > > sales, > > > >> > I hope you too would be willing to share that info with me and > > > >> > the other members in the group that might be interested in > > > >> > saving some money. > > > >> > > > > >> > Thanks for reading, > > > >> > Aaron > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 41219	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 6/22/2009
Subject: Re: Advice

Ray, You'll be proud to know I looked to see if anyone else answered. LOL Steve, I want to add to Ray's comments, YES, you should remove the Purigen and also remove any other "chemical filtration" (carbon, etc.) from your filter systems when treating with any medications (except for when using salt as a medication). Salt is not absorbed by chemical filtration... at least not to any degree where it would affect the treatment level. Also see this long article http://www.americanaquariumproducts.com/Columnaris.html about Section 1) Flexibacter Columnaris (Bacteria) compared to Section 2) Saprolegnia (Fungus) with LOTS of pictures of both, as both present themselves looking like a cottony fungus. Let us know which one looks most like what your fish has. The good news, according to the article, is that Furan Two is also ONE part of a treatment for Columnaris, along with an antibiotic such as Kanamycin so you can at least start off with the Furan Two right away and then let us know how things are going before reconsidering additional treatment. Ray, On a side note, the website, AmericanAquariumProducts.com and it's owner, Carl Strohmeyer is a VERY REPUTABLE online resource. I believe it was \\Steve// who also knows this guy or knows of him and vouched for him in the past but an overview of his experience is listed about 1/4th the way down this page, http://www.americanaquariumproducts.com/AboutMe.html. One day when you have some time, I'd like you to read through some of his general and disease articles and let me know if you see any major issues. I think you'll be pleased with their depth. I've learned a TON from reading through his website since his articles fill in a lot of the blanks that might exist after reading stuff in books, magazines and other websites. He may even be more verbose than either you or I... if that's possible. LOL Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Raymond Wetzel Sent: Monday, June 22, 2009 5:32 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Advice Sounds like a Fungus, wouldn't be Ich as that appears as tiny white spots as though sprinkled with salt. You should first try to find out the root cause of this disease, which may often occur as a result of poor water conditions. An injury will also bring this on, but again, poor water will exacerbate the condition. Check your water parameters for excess nitrogenous wastes (ammonia, nitrite, nitrate). Always best to change out at least 25% of the water before treatment -- more, as needed, if your parameters are elevated (you'll need to correct any source of waste excesses). Furan II is one of the best medications for treatment against Fungus. Ray --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Steve Biondi" <parkpac@...> wrote: > > Hi All, > > My green Severum has a white fuzzy patch on the left side near the > gills. I am not sure if this is ich. If it is, what is the best way to treat it? > Tank is a 55 with a Rena3 using Purigen as the filter element. Do I > need to remove the purigen when I add the ich cure? > > Thanks, Steve

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 41220	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 6/22/2009
Subject: Re: Water testing with crushed coral

Yes, if you did daily PWC's, your tank would slowly get closer to your tap water parameters but without knowing what they are, you would never know what to compare your tank to, to even know if they reached similar parameters. As far as "a decent amount", I guess any amount would help if you have a low GH and KH but once again, without knowing the tap water baseline, we do not know if the crushed coral or other hardeners are even needed or wanted. Your tap water may have sufficient GH and KH levels so that you do not even need to worry about adding hardening agents to your tanks. That's the purpose of the tap water baseline. For others reading this the first time, here's my article, "Find your tap/source water baseline" http://goldlenny.blogspot.com/2007/05/find-your-tap-source-water-baseline.ht ml Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Amber Berglund Sent: Monday, June 22, 2009 4:47 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Water testing with crushed coral I didn't do the baseline testing, I forgot about it, ugh. I can empty the bucket and start a baseline testing though. I just put crushed coral in the bucket I didn't measure how much I would need for the 125 gallon or any other tanks, I'm not really sure how much I will need to be honest. If I were to use a decent amount and do daily PWC's would my tank pH slowly go up to match my tap water (if it's higher than 6, which I'm pretty sure it is)? Amber Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > > > Did you ever do your tap water baseline testing? What were the numbers > right out the tap, at 24 hours and 48 hours? Mainly the pH, GH and KH > but also the others, if noteworthy. > > What percentage of the 1/4 full bucket is crushed coral, as opposed to > the amount of crushed coral that you would have in your tank? For > example, if you have a quart of crushed coral in a 1/4 full bucket > (around 1.25G, so the crushed coral would be 1/5th (20%) of the water > volume) you wouldn't be able to put that same percentage in any of > your tanks... well not practically speaking. If you have an > appropriate percentage of crushed coral in the 1.25G, as you would put > in your 125G (so about 1/100th of the amount you would put in the > 125G, then that would give you a more accurate baseline to compare to > what would happen in the 125G. I can tell you this much, I don't think > that crushed coral will change the water parameters very fast, with a > suitable dosage of crushed coral. Maybe if you tested the bucket once > a month, you would see some changes but not on a daily testing basis. > > You would need it finely ground (like flour) for it to go into > solution and have a faster effect. This is why Baking Soda (Sodium > Bicarbonate) and Oyster Flour (ground oyster shells - calcium > carbonate) have a faster effect on the water, as it's ground so finely > that it will go into solution. > Crushed coral would take a while for the acidic water to slowly > dissolve the larger pieces to where they start to effect the > parameters. Crushed Coral is more for slowly raising and then > "maintaining" certain water parameters, not for making an immediately > measureable change. > > Yes, in an ecosystem with fish, plants, microbes, etc., all of these > would utilize some of the trace elements that make up the KH and GH > levels, which would then affect the pH level. This is why, in a tank > with no additives that would raise the pH, the pH WILL ALWAYS COME > DOWN in between PWC's... > which is why we should do more frequent, smaller PWC's, rather than > less frequent LARGE PWC's. The more frequent, smaller PWC's (25% or > less) will keep the water parameters more stable where doing a LARGE > PWC (50% or > more) > can dramatically alter the water parameters, possibly causing osmotic > shock, pH shock, etc. > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> (Links to any articles referenced in > above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels > and also under Archives by Year, Month) > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On Behalf Of Amber Berglund > Sent: Monday, June 22, 2009 4:14 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Subject: [AquaticLife] Water testing with crushed coral > > I have a bucket filled about a 1/4 of the way with crushed coral and > the rest of it with water. I have been doing daily pH testing to see > what the pH averages out to, so far each day has tested somewhere > close to 7.6. If I were to add crushed coral to my fish tanks inside > the filters in a bag would it change my pH so drastically or would it > be something gradual that happens with water changes? > The bucket has been sitting since friday night. I tested right after I > filled it with water and it tested at 7.6 as well, so it could be that > it just hasn't lowered from my tap water pH because there's nothing > else in the tank to lower the pH (such as plants)? > > Amber

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 41221	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 6/22/2009
Subject: Re: A question about Plecos

Rubber nose plecos, also commonly called bulldog plecos, http://www.planetcatfish.com/catelog/species.php?species_id=407, grow to around 5". Do you have a standard 20G tank or a 20G Long or Breeder? Another pleco that stays even smaller and is a pretty good little algae eater is a Clown Pleco (Panaque sp.) and there are a couple of species that go by this common name. They grow to between 2.5" and 4" so they are more suitable for smaller tanks. http://www.planetcatfish.com/catelog/species.php?species_id=734 http://www.planetcatfish.com/catelog/species.php?species_id=736 http://www.planetcatfish.com/catelog/species.php?species_id=1510 Almost all plecos are omnivores. including the Rubber Nose Pleco. I do not know of any that can live on algae alone. This is why most "algae thins", "algae wafers", etc., usually have a 40-50% protein levels in them. As long as you feed them a varied and complete diet, most of them will leave your plants alone. Here's an article on "Feeding Suckermouth Catfish" http://www.plecofanatics.com/forum/showthread.php?t=11018 which also answers the "problem" about the "attacking pleco", which usually only happens when a pleco is starved of a proper diet. Properly fed plecos in a properly sized aquarium will rarely attack other fish, although they do tend to be more aggressive with conspecifics (their own kind). Here is part 1 of the article but the above Part 2 is the best part. http://www.planetcatfish.com/shanesworld/shanesworld.php?article_id=294 This article covers some of the different species and which category, herbivore, omnivore, carnivore, etc., that they fall into. http://www.plecofanatics.com/articles/showentry.php?e=87&catid=1 Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of ladyjadewindrunner Sent: Monday, June 22, 2009 5:21 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] A question about Plecos Helloooooo I was wondering, being as Plecos aren't exactly something I specialize in, what can I get to clean the algae off of my tank without also eating my lovely plants? I've heard that Rubbernose plecos are good because they stay small, and I have only a 20gal tank. Some recommended a few other types, but after some research most of them were omnivores that had a tendency to prey upon other fish, or required some sort of live food to be given to them - and frankly I've had trouble with buying live food for my fish where I am as they tend to get parasites from them! So, I'm wide open to suggestions for a nice, small, herbivorous and docile pleco :) Thank you! ~Jade

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 41222	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 6/22/2009
Subject: Re: The Correct Flow Rate For Your System

Some people just say I'm full of.. ummm.. not "all sorts of info". LOL Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Amber Berglund Sent: Monday, June 22, 2009 6:42 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] The Correct Flow Rate For Your System LOL, well at least with the Hillstreams I know it was because they're slower, they move is short "spurts". They are also active all night. I watch them creep over to the Angel's area where they have their eggs laid and try to catch a midnight snack while the Angel's are sleeping ;) LOL You're full of all sorts of info sometimes Lenny ;) LOL. (I didn't say useless in there btw, so I think it's a compliment) Amber Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > > > They weren't too slow. They were sleeping... only to be rudely > awakened feeling like Jonah... except they weren't being saved by the > "Whale". ;-) http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jonah > <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jonah> > > I don't remember the "Jonah And The Whale" bible-school nursery rhyme > (to the tune of London Bridges Falling Down) but here's that version. > It's an easier read than the Wikipedia article above... if you do not > know the story already. > http://www.dltk-bible.com/jonah_and_the_whale2.htm > <http://www.dltk-bible.com/jonah_and_the_whale2.htm> > > And now, thousands (OK.. maybe dozens) of people will be humming the > tune to London Bridges Falling Down, the rest of the day. LOL > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> (Links to any articles referenced in > above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels > and also under Archives by Year, Month) > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On Behalf Of Amber Berglund > Sent: Monday, June 22, 2009 4:26 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] The Correct Flow Rate For Your System > > LOL, it wasn't like I was dangling the fish in front of him y'know ;). > I figure if they were too slow to get out of the way then it's a loss > on my part ;) I'm not going to cry about it, but I learned a valuable > lesson, research all fish before buying ;) LOL. > > Amber > > Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > > > > > > Amber, > > > > I'm up for adoption... and I only expect Filet Mignon three times a > week. > > The other four nights can be Porterhouse, T-bones and Prime Rib. > > > > Oh wait... you only fed your Redtail Catfish that well. ;-) > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>> > (Links to any articles referenced in > > above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under > > Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On Behalf Of Amber Berglund > > Sent: Monday, June 22, 2009 4:07 PM > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] The Correct Flow Rate For Your System > > > > I'm going to do that on the 55 gallon when I transfer them over, for > > now I had to put the filters like they are since the hood is wooden > > and I didn't want to mess with cutting more holes in it when the > > filters were going to be on the tank for just a few months, then I > > would have had to fill the holes back up later ;) LOL. > > It's not exactly what I had wanted for the Hillstream loaches > > either, but they seem pretty happy in there. I think the red tailed > > catfish ate on though, I only count 5 lately :( *sigh* At least the "little" > > monster is gone ;) LOL. > > > > Amber > > > > Harl Myers wrote: > > > > > > > > > I would have thought for the Hillstreams, you would have put both > > > intakes on one end and both returns on the other. Thus making it > > > like a river flow. Place one at mid tank and one toward the bottom > > > on each end... Obviously what you have works, just not what I > imagined... > > > :o) > > > On Mon, Jun 22, 2009 at 3:03 PM, Amber > > Berglund<amber@... <mailto:amber%40rose-fields.com> > <mailto:amber%40rose-fields.com> > > > <mailto:amber%40rose-fields.com>> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > I also think it has to do with how big the tank is. My 125 > > > > gallon tends to have slower moving spots even though it's > > > > greatly over filtered compared to how much filtration the > > > > previous owner had. I have slower moving fish in the tank and > > > > they don't seem to have any issues with all of the water > > > > movement, they just stick to the slower moving water and when > > > > they get into the fast water they use it as a push to get to > > > > where they're headed, smart little fishies ;) > LOL. > > > > > > > > The water on the surface doesn't flow as fast as it does through > > > > the middle, and on the bottom the current flows opposite as on > > > > top, the middle flows oddly both sides pushing towards each > > > > other since there's filters on each side of the tank pointed > > > > towards each > other. > > > > > > > > Amber > > > > > > > > Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > > > >> > > > >> > > > >> I think it depends on the fish and plants. If the fish and > > > >> plants > > > are from > > > >> fast moving waters, then over-filtration/circulation is OK. If > > > >> the fish and plants are from slow moving or stagnant waters, > > > >> then over-filtration/circulation might be detrimental to the > > > >> overall > > > health of > > > >> the fish and plants. If one has a community tank with a mixture > > > >> of fish and plants from many biotopes, then something in the > > > >> middle would be best. > > > >> > > > >> Lenny Vasbinder > > > >> Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 41223	From: jett07002	Date: 6/22/2009
Subject: ANGELFISH, Once again

Ray, \\Steve//, Lenny and anyone else interested in Angelfish. I asked once a long time ago, and now I am asking again. Have any of you guys run across any real BLACK angels like we used to have back in the 80s early 90s? Since I have asked back then, and all (Ray, \\Steve//, and Lenny) have graciously answered in the negative, I am still searching for a comeback on the black angel as they were back then. I have run across some angels where the black color has "really been improved" according to the folks trying to sell them. Maybe my eyes are starting to fail me, but they do not look the same to me. joe t

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 41224	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 6/22/2009
Subject: Re: Water testing with crushed coral

I have my GH and KH testing from my tap, but I didn't do them with a baseline test, I assume that as the water sits the GH and KH will be used up slowly and the pH drops? Am I correct? Amber Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > > > Yes, if you did daily PWC's, your tank would slowly get closer to your tap > water parameters but without knowing what they are, you would never know > what to compare your tank to, to even know if they reached similar > parameters. > > As far as "a decent amount", I guess any amount would help if you have > a low > GH and KH but once again, without knowing the tap water baseline, we > do not > know if the crushed coral or other hardeners are even needed or wanted. > Your tap water may have sufficient GH and KH levels so that you do not > even > need to worry about adding hardening agents to your tanks. > > That's the purpose of the tap water baseline. For others reading this the > first time, here's my article, "Find your tap/source water baseline" > http://goldlenny.blogspot.com/2007/05/find-your-tap-source-water-baseline.ht > <http://goldlenny.blogspot.com/2007/05/find-your-tap-source-water-baseline.ht> > ml > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right > side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On > Behalf Of Amber Berglund > Sent: Monday, June 22, 2009 4:47 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Water testing with crushed coral > > I didn't do the baseline testing, I forgot about it, ugh. I can empty the > bucket and start a baseline testing though. I just put crushed coral > in the > bucket I didn't measure how much I would need for the 125 gallon or any > other tanks, I'm not really sure how much I will need to be honest. > If I were to use a decent amount and do daily PWC's would my tank pH > slowly > go up to match my tap water (if it's higher than 6, which I'm pretty > sure it > is)? > > Amber > > Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > > > > > > Did you ever do your tap water baseline testing? What were the numbers > > right out the tap, at 24 hours and 48 hours? Mainly the pH, GH and KH > > but also the others, if noteworthy. > > > > What percentage of the 1/4 full bucket is crushed coral, as opposed to > > the amount of crushed coral that you would have in your tank? For > > example, if you have a quart of crushed coral in a 1/4 full bucket > > (around 1.25G, so the crushed coral would be 1/5th (20%) of the water > > volume) you wouldn't be able to put that same percentage in any of > > your tanks... well not practically speaking. If you have an > > appropriate percentage of crushed coral in the 1.25G, as you would put > > in your 125G (so about 1/100th of the amount you would put in the > > 125G, then that would give you a more accurate baseline to compare to > > what would happen in the 125G. I can tell you this much, I don't think > > that crushed coral will change the water parameters very fast, with a > > suitable dosage of crushed coral. Maybe if you tested the bucket once > > a month, you would see some changes but not on a daily testing basis. > > > > You would need it finely ground (like flour) for it to go into > > solution and have a faster effect. This is why Baking Soda (Sodium > > Bicarbonate) and Oyster Flour (ground oyster shells - calcium > > carbonate) have a faster effect on the water, as it's ground so finely > > that it will go into solution. > > Crushed coral would take a while for the acidic water to slowly > > dissolve the larger pieces to where they start to effect the > > parameters. Crushed Coral is more for slowly raising and then > > "maintaining" certain water parameters, not for making an immediately > > measureable change. > > > > Yes, in an ecosystem with fish, plants, microbes, etc., all of these > > would utilize some of the trace elements that make up the KH and GH > > levels, which would then affect the pH level. This is why, in a tank > > with no additives that would raise the pH, the pH WILL ALWAYS COME > > DOWN in between PWC's... > > which is why we should do more frequent, smaller PWC's, rather than > > less frequent LARGE PWC's. The more frequent, smaller PWC's (25% or > > less) will keep the water parameters more stable where doing a LARGE > > PWC (50% or > > more) > > can dramatically alter the water parameters, possibly causing osmotic > > shock, pH shock, etc. > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>> > (Links to any articles referenced in > > above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels > > and also under Archives by Year, Month) > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On Behalf Of Amber Berglund > > Sent: Monday, June 22, 2009 4:14 PM > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > Subject: [AquaticLife] Water testing with crushed coral > > > > I have a bucket filled about a 1/4 of the way with crushed coral and > > the rest of it with water. I have been doing daily pH testing to see > > what the pH averages out to, so far each day has tested somewhere > > close to 7.6. If I were to add crushed coral to my fish tanks inside > > the filters in a bag would it change my pH so drastically or would it > > be something gradual that happens with water changes? > > The bucket has been sitting since friday night. I tested right after I > > filled it with water and it tested at 7.6 as well, so it could be that > > it just hasn't lowered from my tap water pH because there's nothing > > else in the tank to lower the pH (such as plants)? > > > > Amber > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 41225	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 6/22/2009
Subject: Re: Water testing with crushed coral

Well, the pH changes as a result of the buffers wearing out, not being used up... and as CO2 ingases or outgases from the water. Most public utilities add buffers (things like sodium carbonate, sodium bicarbonate, calcium carbonate, lime - not the fruit, soda ash, etc.) to the water before it leaves the water plant to raise the pH above 7.0 so it will be less likely to cause corrosion problems (from being acidic, that is pH below 7.0) while it's still in the public pipes. They usually only add enough to sustain the higher pH just long enough to get the water to the majority of their customers homes. Once this artificially and limitedly buffered water is in your tank, it will slowly lose it's buffering capacity. It also happens at a faster rate once the water is exposed to air and light (why most chemicals/medicines are stored in dark brown and/or opaque bottles), thus the 48 hour baseline test. As ol' Bill says, adding an airstone or other aeration/agitation to the bucket will speed up the process. The pH will not always drop during the baseline testing and quite often will rise. In cases where there is a high CO2 level in the water, the pH out the faucet could be artificially low and as the CO2 outgases from the water, the pH will rise. Now.. once water is in our tanks where there are a million life forms, plants, fish, microbes, etc., utilizing the minerals in the water, then the GH and KH will fall and since all of these life forms are also putting out CO2 and decaying detritus is putting out carbonic acid, these will cause the pH to fall and if there is not carbonates to maintain the KH level, then the pH could dramatically crash, which will cause health problems, even death, for many fish. This is just a Cliff's Notes version of water chemistry. For more reading... http://faq.thekrib.com/begin-chem.html (Beginner Water Chemistry) http://www.americanaquariumproducts.com/AquariumKH.html (LOOONNNNGGGG Article) DISCLAIMER AND RULE NUMBER ONE - While both of the above articles talk about water chemistry and how it all works together, they also mention ALL of the various natural and store bought things that have been used to alter the water chemistry of our fish tanks. REMEMBER, IT'S ALWAYS BEST TO JUST KNOW YOUR BASELINE AND THEN KEEP FISH THAT DO BEST WITH THE WATER THAT YOU HAVE. For most folks, their normal tap water will give them a wide array of fish that they can successfully keep. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Amber Berglund Sent: Monday, June 22, 2009 8:05 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Water testing with crushed coral I have my GH and KH testing from my tap, but I didn't do them with a baseline test, I assume that as the water sits the GH and KH will be used up slowly and the pH drops? Am I correct? Amber Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > > > Yes, if you did daily PWC's, your tank would slowly get closer to your > tap water parameters but without knowing what they are, you would > never know what to compare your tank to, to even know if they reached > similar parameters. > > As far as "a decent amount", I guess any amount would help if you have > a low GH and KH but once again, without knowing the tap water > baseline, we do not know if the crushed coral or other hardeners are > even needed or wanted. > Your tap water may have sufficient GH and KH levels so that you do not > even need to worry about adding hardening agents to your tanks. > > That's the purpose of the tap water baseline. For others reading this > the first time, here's my article, "Find your tap/source water baseline" > http://goldlenny.blogspot.com/2007/05/find-your-tap-source-water-basel > ine.ht > <http://goldlenny.blogspot.com/2007/05/find-your-tap-source-water-base > line.ht> > ml > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> (Links to any articles referenced in > above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels > and also under Archives by Year, Month) > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On Behalf Of Amber Berglund > Sent: Monday, June 22, 2009 4:47 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Water testing with crushed coral > > I didn't do the baseline testing, I forgot about it, ugh. I can empty > the bucket and start a baseline testing though. I just put crushed > coral in the bucket I didn't measure how much I would need for the 125 > gallon or any other tanks, I'm not really sure how much I will need to > be honest. > If I were to use a decent amount and do daily PWC's would my tank pH > slowly go up to match my tap water (if it's higher than 6, which I'm > pretty sure it is)? > > Amber > > Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > > > > > > Did you ever do your tap water baseline testing? What were the > > numbers right out the tap, at 24 hours and 48 hours? Mainly the pH, > > GH and KH but also the others, if noteworthy. > > > > What percentage of the 1/4 full bucket is crushed coral, as opposed > > to the amount of crushed coral that you would have in your tank? For > > example, if you have a quart of crushed coral in a 1/4 full bucket > > (around 1.25G, so the crushed coral would be 1/5th (20%) of the > > water > > volume) you wouldn't be able to put that same percentage in any of > > your tanks... well not practically speaking. If you have an > > appropriate percentage of crushed coral in the 1.25G, as you would > > put in your 125G (so about 1/100th of the amount you would put in > > the 125G, then that would give you a more accurate baseline to > > compare to what would happen in the 125G. I can tell you this much, > > I don't think that crushed coral will change the water parameters > > very fast, with a suitable dosage of crushed coral. Maybe if you > > tested the bucket once a month, you would see some changes but not on a daily testing basis. > > > > You would need it finely ground (like flour) for it to go into > > solution and have a faster effect. This is why Baking Soda (Sodium > > Bicarbonate) and Oyster Flour (ground oyster shells - calcium > > carbonate) have a faster effect on the water, as it's ground so > > finely that it will go into solution. > > Crushed coral would take a while for the acidic water to slowly > > dissolve the larger pieces to where they start to effect the > > parameters. Crushed Coral is more for slowly raising and then > > "maintaining" certain water parameters, not for making an > > immediately measureable change. > > > > Yes, in an ecosystem with fish, plants, microbes, etc., all of these > > would utilize some of the trace elements that make up the KH and GH > > levels, which would then affect the pH level. This is why, in a tank > > with no additives that would raise the pH, the pH WILL ALWAYS COME > > DOWN in between PWC's... > > which is why we should do more frequent, smaller PWC's, rather than > > less frequent LARGE PWC's. The more frequent, smaller PWC's (25% or > > less) will keep the water parameters more stable where doing a LARGE > > PWC (50% or > > more) > > can dramatically alter the water parameters, possibly causing > > osmotic shock, pH shock, etc. > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>> > (Links to any articles referenced in > > above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under > > Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On Behalf Of Amber Berglund > > Sent: Monday, June 22, 2009 4:14 PM > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > Subject: [AquaticLife] Water testing with crushed coral > > > > I have a bucket filled about a 1/4 of the way with crushed coral and > > the rest of it with water. I have been doing daily pH testing to see > > what the pH averages out to, so far each day has tested somewhere > > close to 7.6. If I were to add crushed coral to my fish tanks inside > > the filters in a bag would it change my pH so drastically or would > > it be something gradual that happens with water changes? > > The bucket has been sitting since friday night. I tested right after > > I filled it with water and it tested at 7.6 as well, so it could be > > that it just hasn't lowered from my tap water pH because there's > > nothing else in the tank to lower the pH (such as plants)? > > > > Amber

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 41226	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 6/22/2009
Subject: Tap water Baseline testing, first test.

First baseline testing for my tap water: pH: 6.5 or 6.6 hard to tell KH: I'm not sure how to read this one, it only takes 1 drop for the water to turn yellow, does that mean I'm somewhere near 0 ppm? The chart says 0-3 drops is 0-50 ppm... GH: Approximately 100 ppm Ammonia: 0 Nitrate: 0 Nitrite: 0

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 41227	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 6/22/2009
Subject: Re: Tap water Baseline testing, first test.

OK... Keep this thread intact by posting your 24 hour and 48 hour test results in this same thread. Yes, if your KH test changed colors after only one drop, it means, at this stage in the testing process, you have no more than 1 dH (or less than 18ppm of Carbonate Hardness). Don't forget to add your dechlor and test the ammonia again to let us know how much free ammonia you get when the chloramine bond is broken... usually around 0.5ppm. Keep the same container of water for the testing at 24 hours and 48 hours. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Amber Berglund Sent: Monday, June 22, 2009 9:17 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Tap water Baseline testing, first test. First baseline testing for my tap water: pH: 6.5 or 6.6 hard to tell KH: I'm not sure how to read this one, it only takes 1 drop for the water to turn yellow, does that mean I'm somewhere near 0 ppm? The chart says 0-3 drops is 0-50 ppm... GH: Approximately 100 ppm Ammonia: 0 Nitrate: 0 Nitrite: 0

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 41228	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 6/22/2009
Subject: Re: Advice

Lenny, I do not know the gentleman to whom you refer. \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Lenny V. aka GoldLenny Sent: Monday, June 22, 2009 7:48 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: Advice Ray, You'll be proud to know I looked to see if anyone else answered. LOL Steve, I want to add to Ray's comments, YES, you should remove the Purigen and also remove any other "chemical filtration" (carbon, etc.) from your filter systems when treating with any medications (except for when using salt as a medication). Salt is not absorbed by chemical filtration... at least not to any degree where it would affect the treatment level. Also see this long article http://www.americanaquariumproducts.com/Columnaris.html about Section 1) Flexibacter Columnaris (Bacteria) compared to Section 2) Saprolegnia (Fungus) with LOTS of pictures of both, as both present themselves looking like a cottony fungus. Let us know which one looks most like what your fish has. The good news, according to the article, is that Furan Two is also ONE part of a treatment for Columnaris, along with an antibiotic such as Kanamycin so you can at least start off with the Furan Two right away and then let us know how things are going before reconsidering additional treatment. Ray, On a side note, the website, AmericanAquariumProducts.com and it's owner, Carl Strohmeyer is a VERY REPUTABLE online resource. I believe it was \\Steve// who also knows this guy or knows of him and vouched for him in the past but an overview of his experience is listed about 1/4th the way down this page, http://www.americanaquariumproducts.com/AboutMe.html. One day when you have some time, I'd like you to read through some of his general and disease articles and let me know if you see any major issues. I think you'll be pleased with their depth. I've learned a TON from reading through his website since his articles fill in a lot of the blanks that might exist after reading stuff in books, magazines and other websites. He may even be more verbose than either you or I... if that's possible. LOL Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Raymond Wetzel Sent: Monday, June 22, 2009 5:32 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Advice Sounds like a Fungus, wouldn't be Ich as that appears as tiny white spots as though sprinkled with salt. You should first try to find out the root cause of this disease, which may often occur as a result of poor water conditions. An injury will also bring this on, but again, poor water will exacerbate the condition. Check your water parameters for excess nitrogenous wastes (ammonia, nitrite, nitrate). Always best to change out at least 25% of the water before treatment -- more, as needed, if your parameters are elevated (you'll need to correct any source of waste excesses). Furan II is one of the best medications for treatment against Fungus. Ray --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Steve Biondi" <parkpac@...> wrote: > > Hi All, > > My green Severum has a white fuzzy patch on the left side near the > gills. I am not sure if this is ich. If it is, what is the best way to treat it? > Tank is a 55 with a Rena3 using Purigen as the filter element. Do I > need to remove the purigen when I add the ich cure? > > Thanks, Steve

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 41229	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 6/22/2009
Subject: Re: Tap water Baseline testing, first test.

All of the tests were after the dechlor product, so I don't see any ammonia after using the product... is that good or bad? LOL. Amber Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > > > OK... Keep this thread intact by posting your 24 hour and 48 hour test > results in this same thread. > > Yes, if your KH test changed colors after only one drop, it means, at this > stage in the testing process, you have no more than 1 dH (or less than > 18ppm > of Carbonate Hardness). > > Don't forget to add your dechlor and test the ammonia again to let us know > how much free ammonia you get when the chloramine bond is broken... > usually > around 0.5ppm. > > Keep the same container of water for the testing at 24 hours and 48 hours. > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right > side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On > Behalf Of Amber Berglund > Sent: Monday, June 22, 2009 9:17 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Subject: [AquaticLife] Tap water Baseline testing, first test. > > First baseline testing for my tap water: > > pH: 6.5 or 6.6 hard to tell > > KH: I'm not sure how to read this one, it only takes 1 drop for the > water to > turn yellow, does that mean I'm somewhere near 0 ppm? The chart says 0-3 > drops is 0-50 ppm... > > GH: Approximately 100 ppm > > Ammonia: 0 > > Nitrate: 0 > > Nitrite: 0 > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 41230	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 6/22/2009
Subject: Re: Advice

It's the other Steve, not you \\Steve// ;) hehe. Amber Steve Szabo wrote: > > > Lenny, > > I do not know the gentleman to whom you refer. > > \\Steve// > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] > On Behalf Of Lenny V. aka GoldLenny > Sent: Monday, June 22, 2009 7:48 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: Advice > > Ray, > > You'll be proud to know I looked to see if anyone else answered. LOL > > Steve, > > I want to add to Ray's comments, YES, you should remove the Purigen and > also > remove any other "chemical filtration" (carbon, etc.) from your filter > systems when treating with any medications (except for when using salt > as a > medication). Salt is not absorbed by chemical filtration... at least > not to > any degree where it would affect the treatment level. > > Also see this long article > http://www.americanaquariumproducts.com/Columnaris.html > <http://www.americanaquariumproducts.com/Columnaris.html> about Section 1) > Flexibacter Columnaris (Bacteria) compared to Section 2) Saprolegnia > (Fungus) with LOTS of pictures of both, as both present themselves > looking > like a cottony fungus. > > Let us know which one looks most like what your fish has. > > The good news, according to the article, is that Furan Two is also ONE > part > of a treatment for Columnaris, along with an antibiotic such as > Kanamycin so > you can at least start off with the Furan Two right away and then let us > know how things are going before reconsidering additional treatment. > > Ray, > > On a side note, the website, AmericanAquariumProducts.com and it's > owner, > Carl Strohmeyer is a VERY REPUTABLE online resource. I believe it was > \\Steve// who also knows this guy or knows of him and vouched for him in > the > past but an overview of his experience is listed about 1/4th the way > down > this page, http://www.americanaquariumproducts.com/AboutMe.html. > <http://www.americanaquariumproducts.com/AboutMe.html.> One > day > when you have some time, I'd like you to read through some of his > general > and disease articles and let me know if you see any major issues. I > think > you'll be pleased with their depth. I've learned a TON from reading > through > his website since his articles fill in a lot of the blanks that might > exist > after reading stuff in books, magazines and other websites. He may even > be > more verbose than either you or I... if that's possible. LOL > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right > side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, > Month) > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] > On > Behalf Of Raymond Wetzel > Sent: Monday, June 22, 2009 5:32 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Advice > > Sounds like a Fungus, wouldn't be Ich as that appears as tiny white > spots as > though sprinkled with salt. You should first try to find out the root > cause > of this disease, which may often occur as a result of poor water > conditions. > An injury will also bring this on, but again, poor water will exacerbate > the > condition. Check your water parameters for excess nitrogenous wastes > (ammonia, nitrite, nitrate). Always best to change out at least 25% of > the > water before treatment -- more, as needed, if your parameters are > elevated > (you'll need to correct any source of waste excesses). Furan II is one > of > the best medications for treatment against Fungus. Ray > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>, "Steve Biondi" <parkpac@...> > wrote: > > > > Hi All, > > > > My green Severum has a white fuzzy patch on the left side near the > > gills. I am not sure if this is ich. If it is, what is the best way > to > treat it? > > Tank is a 55 with a Rena3 using Purigen as the filter element. Do I > > need to remove the purigen when I add the ich cure? > > > > Thanks, Steve > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 41231	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 6/22/2009
Subject: Re: Advice

He he Amber, Read the entirety of Lenny's post and you will not to that which I refer. \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Amber Berglund Sent: Monday, June 22, 2009 10:44 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: Advice It's the other Steve, not you \\Steve// ;) hehe. Amber Steve Szabo wrote: > > > Lenny, > > I do not know the gentleman to whom you refer. > > \\Steve// > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] > On Behalf Of Lenny V. aka GoldLenny > Sent: Monday, June 22, 2009 7:48 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: Advice > > Ray, > > You'll be proud to know I looked to see if anyone else answered. LOL > > Steve, > > I want to add to Ray's comments, YES, you should remove the Purigen and > also > remove any other "chemical filtration" (carbon, etc.) from your filter > systems when treating with any medications (except for when using salt > as a > medication). Salt is not absorbed by chemical filtration... at least > not to > any degree where it would affect the treatment level. > > Also see this long article > http://www.americanaquariumproducts.com/Columnaris.html > <http://www.americanaquariumproducts.com/Columnaris.html> about Section 1) > Flexibacter Columnaris (Bacteria) compared to Section 2) Saprolegnia > (Fungus) with LOTS of pictures of both, as both present themselves > looking > like a cottony fungus. > > Let us know which one looks most like what your fish has. > > The good news, according to the article, is that Furan Two is also ONE > part > of a treatment for Columnaris, along with an antibiotic such as > Kanamycin so > you can at least start off with the Furan Two right away and then let us > know how things are going before reconsidering additional treatment. > > Ray, > > On a side note, the website, AmericanAquariumProducts.com and it's > owner, > Carl Strohmeyer is a VERY REPUTABLE online resource. I believe it was > \\Steve// who also knows this guy or knows of him and vouched for him in > the > past but an overview of his experience is listed about 1/4th the way > down > this page, http://www.americanaquariumproducts.com/AboutMe.html. > <http://www.americanaquariumproducts.com/AboutMe.html.> One > day > when you have some time, I'd like you to read through some of his > general > and disease articles and let me know if you see any major issues. I > think > you'll be pleased with their depth. I've learned a TON from reading > through > his website since his articles fill in a lot of the blanks that might > exist > after reading stuff in books, magazines and other websites. He may even > be > more verbose than either you or I... if that's possible. LOL > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right > side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, > Month) > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] > On > Behalf Of Raymond Wetzel > Sent: Monday, June 22, 2009 5:32 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Advice > > Sounds like a Fungus, wouldn't be Ich as that appears as tiny white > spots as > though sprinkled with salt. You should first try to find out the root > cause > of this disease, which may often occur as a result of poor water > conditions. > An injury will also bring this on, but again, poor water will exacerbate > the > condition. Check your water parameters for excess nitrogenous wastes > (ammonia, nitrite, nitrate). Always best to change out at least 25% of > the > water before treatment -- more, as needed, if your parameters are > elevated > (you'll need to correct any source of waste excesses). Furan II is one > of > the best medications for treatment against Fungus. Ray > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>, "Steve Biondi" <parkpac@...> > wrote: > > > > Hi All, > > > > My green Severum has a white fuzzy patch on the left side near the > > gills. I am not sure if this is ich. If it is, what is the best way > to > treat it? > > Tank is a 55 with a Rena3 using Purigen as the filter element. Do I > > need to remove the purigen when I add the ich cure? > > > > Thanks, Steve > > ------------------------------------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the home page. Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com to receive the digest, which includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com for the No E-Mail option where you will still be able to read messages on the group and post replies. Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com to receive individual e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 41232	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 6/22/2009
Subject: Re: Tap water Baseline testing, first test.

That's fine. If I recall, when you posted info from your water utility a while back, they still use Chlorine only up there... right? That would be why you do not see the residual ammonia that results from using a dechlor product, with the plurality of utilities that now use Chloramine. Which brand dechlor did you use? I'm not sure if Prime, or one of the other dechlors that also purportedly treat ammonia, would actually change the test results, or not. Maybe someone who uses Prime can test their Chloramine treated tap water, then add Prime and then test again to see if ammonia shows up. With your low pH, ammonia isn't really an issue for you anyhow. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Amber Berglund Sent: Monday, June 22, 2009 9:42 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Tap water Baseline testing, first test. All of the tests were after the dechlor product, so I don't see any ammonia after using the product... is that good or bad? LOL. Amber Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > > > OK... Keep this thread intact by posting your 24 hour and 48 hour test > results in this same thread. > > Yes, if your KH test changed colors after only one drop, it means, at this > stage in the testing process, you have no more than 1 dH (or less than > 18ppm > of Carbonate Hardness). > > Don't forget to add your dechlor and test the ammonia again to let us know > how much free ammonia you get when the chloramine bond is broken... > usually > around 0.5ppm. > > Keep the same container of water for the testing at 24 hours and 48 hours. > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right > side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On > Behalf Of Amber Berglund > Sent: Monday, June 22, 2009 9:17 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Subject: [AquaticLife] Tap water Baseline testing, first test. > > First baseline testing for my tap water: > > pH: 6.5 or 6.6 hard to tell > > KH: I'm not sure how to read this one, it only takes 1 drop for the > water to > turn yellow, does that mean I'm somewhere near 0 ppm? The chart says 0-3 > drops is 0-50 ppm... > > GH: Approximately 100 ppm > > Ammonia: 0 > > Nitrate: 0 > > Nitrite: 0

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 41233	From: pam andress	Date: 6/22/2009
Subject: Re: A question about Plecos

Jade, I raise BN plecos and mystery snails. Both are good tank cleaners. If you are interested in some, let me know. I know I should be going to Merr. next month some time for a Dr. appt. We could possibly meet. Pam To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com From: ladyjadewindrunner@... Date: Mon, 22 Jun 2009 22:20:45 +0000 Subject: [AquaticLife] A question about Plecos Helloooooo I was wondering, being as Plecos aren't exactly something I specialize in, what can I get to clean the algae off of my tank without also eating my lovely plants? I've heard that Rubbernose plecos are good because they stay small, and I have only a 20gal tank. Some recommended a few other types, but after some research most of them were omnivores that had a tendency to prey upon other fish, or required some sort of live food to be given to them - and frankly I've had trouble with buying live food for my fish where I am as they tend to get parasites from them! So, I'm wide open to suggestions for a nice, small, herbivorous and docile pleco :) Thank you! ~Jade [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 41234	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 6/22/2009
Subject: Re: Advice

Ahah, I see what you mean now, at the bottom ;) LOL. oops, Amber Steve Szabo wrote: > > > He he Amber, > > Read the entirety of Lenny's post and you will not to that which I refer. > > \\Steve// > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On Behalf Of Amber Berglund > Sent: Monday, June 22, 2009 10:44 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: Advice > > It's the other Steve, not you \\Steve// ;) hehe. > > Amber > > Steve Szabo wrote: > > > > > > Lenny, > > > > I do not know the gentleman to whom you refer. > > > > \\Steve// > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] > > On Behalf Of Lenny V. aka GoldLenny > > Sent: Monday, June 22, 2009 7:48 PM > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: Advice > > > > Ray, > > > > You'll be proud to know I looked to see if anyone else answered. LOL > > > > Steve, > > > > I want to add to Ray's comments, YES, you should remove the Purigen and > > also > > remove any other "chemical filtration" (carbon, etc.) from your filter > > systems when treating with any medications (except for when using salt > > as a > > medication). Salt is not absorbed by chemical filtration... at least > > not to > > any degree where it would affect the treatment level. > > > > Also see this long article > > http://www.americanaquariumproducts.com/Columnaris.html > <http://www.americanaquariumproducts.com/Columnaris.html> > > <http://www.americanaquariumproducts.com/Columnaris.html > <http://www.americanaquariumproducts.com/Columnaris.html>> about > Section 1) > > Flexibacter Columnaris (Bacteria) compared to Section 2) Saprolegnia > > (Fungus) with LOTS of pictures of both, as both present themselves > > looking > > like a cottony fungus. > > > > Let us know which one looks most like what your fish has. > > > > The good news, according to the article, is that Furan Two is also ONE > > part > > of a treatment for Columnaris, along with an antibiotic such as > > Kanamycin so > > you can at least start off with the Furan Two right away and then let us > > know how things are going before reconsidering additional treatment. > > > > Ray, > > > > On a side note, the website, AmericanAquariumProducts.com and it's > > owner, > > Carl Strohmeyer is a VERY REPUTABLE online resource. I believe it was > > \\Steve// who also knows this guy or knows of him and vouched for him in > > the > > past but an overview of his experience is listed about 1/4th the way > > down > > this page, http://www.americanaquariumproducts.com/AboutMe.html. > <http://www.americanaquariumproducts.com/AboutMe.html.> > > <http://www.americanaquariumproducts.com/AboutMe.html. > <http://www.americanaquariumproducts.com/AboutMe.html.>> One > > day > > when you have some time, I'd like you to read through some of his > > general > > and disease articles and let me know if you see any major issues. I > > think > > you'll be pleased with their depth. I've learned a TON from reading > > through > > his website since his articles fill in a lot of the blanks that might > > exist > > after reading stuff in books, magazines and other websites. He may even > > be > > more verbose than either you or I... if that's possible. LOL > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>> > > (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right > > side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, > > Month) > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] > > On > > Behalf Of Raymond Wetzel > > Sent: Monday, June 22, 2009 5:32 PM > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Advice > > > > Sounds like a Fungus, wouldn't be Ich as that appears as tiny white > > spots as > > though sprinkled with salt. You should first try to find out the root > > cause > > of this disease, which may often occur as a result of poor water > > conditions. > > An injury will also bring this on, but again, poor water will exacerbate > > the > > condition. Check your water parameters for excess nitrogenous wastes > > (ammonia, nitrite, nitrate). Always best to change out at least 25% of > > the > > water before treatment -- more, as needed, if your parameters are > > elevated > > (you'll need to correct any source of waste excesses). Furan II is one > > of > > the best medications for treatment against Fungus. Ray > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>, "Steve Biondi" <parkpac@...> > > wrote: > > > > > > Hi All, > > > > > > My green Severum has a white fuzzy patch on the left side near the > > > gills. I am not sure if this is ich. If it is, what is the best way > > to > > treat it? > > > Tank is a 55 with a Rena3 using Purigen as the filter element. Do I > > > need to remove the purigen when I add the ich cure? > > > > > > Thanks, Steve > > > > > > ------------------------------------ > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. > ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> > PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT > important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message > MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- > <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. > > If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of unsubscribing, > you can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My > Membership" on the home page. > > Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:aquaticlife-digest%40yahoogroups.com> to receive the digest, > which includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email > > Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:aquaticlife-nomail%40yahoogroups.com> for the No E-Mail option > where you will still be able to read messages on the group and post > replies. > > Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:aquaticlife-normal%40yahoogroups.com> to receive individual > e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 41235	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 6/22/2009
Subject: Re: Tap water Baseline testing, first test.

I use stress coat, and honestly I wish my LFS didn't only order it. I go through so much of it I can't afford to buy it off the internet, the shipping would be outrageous for a big bottle of anything. I've asked repeatedly if they will get a different kind of water conditioner but the owner is a jerk and refuses to order anything else *sigh*. The downfall to living on an island I suppose. I have heavy metals in my tap water so regardless I need something that takes care of heavy metals, so I can't get the one that walmart carries here, it only takes care of chlorine. Amber Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > > > That's fine. If I recall, when you posted info from your water utility a > while back, they still use Chlorine only up there... right? That would be > why you do not see the residual ammonia that results from using a dechlor > product, with the plurality of utilities that now use Chloramine. > > Which brand dechlor did you use? > > I'm not sure if Prime, or one of the other dechlors that also purportedly > treat ammonia, would actually change the test results, or not. Maybe > someone who uses Prime can test their Chloramine treated tap water, > then add > Prime and then test again to see if ammonia shows up. > > With your low pH, ammonia isn't really an issue for you anyhow. > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right > side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On > Behalf Of Amber Berglund > Sent: Monday, June 22, 2009 9:42 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Tap water Baseline testing, first test. > > All of the tests were after the dechlor product, so I don't see any > ammonia > after using the product... is that good or bad? LOL. > > Amber > > Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > > > > > > OK... Keep this thread intact by posting your 24 hour and 48 hour test > > results in this same thread. > > > > Yes, if your KH test changed colors after only one drop, it means, > at this > > stage in the testing process, you have no more than 1 dH (or less than > > 18ppm > > of Carbonate Hardness). > > > > Don't forget to add your dechlor and test the ammonia again to let > us know > > how much free ammonia you get when the chloramine bond is broken... > > usually > > around 0.5ppm. > > > > Keep the same container of water for the testing at 24 hours and 48 > hours. > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>> > > (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right > > side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, > Month) > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On > > Behalf Of Amber Berglund > > Sent: Monday, June 22, 2009 9:17 PM > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > Subject: [AquaticLife] Tap water Baseline testing, first test. > > > > First baseline testing for my tap water: > > > > pH: 6.5 or 6.6 hard to tell > > > > KH: I'm not sure how to read this one, it only takes 1 drop for the > > water to > > turn yellow, does that mean I'm somewhere near 0 ppm? The chart says 0-3 > > drops is 0-50 ppm... > > > > GH: Approximately 100 ppm > > > > Ammonia: 0 > > > > Nitrate: 0 > > > > Nitrite: 0 > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 41236	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 6/22/2009
Subject: Thoughts on walstad tank setups

Okay after having my walstad tank running for several months (since the end of last november to be precise), I can honestly say that if done properly the tank is gorgeous. Now if I could get rid of all the black beard algae that'd be great ;) LOL. I was going to use flourish excel in the tank but I realized that it'll cause all of my val's to melt. Will the val's grow back after melting from flourish products? I honestly prefer the plant growth to all the rest of my tanks and I'm considering converting the tanks over to walstad tanks some day in the future. If I don't switch them to walstad then I'd definitely like to get some plant gravel instead, either way I prefer the looks of the tank over the other tanks in the house (potted plants in terra cotta pots, or just easy to grow plants stuck in the gravel). Amber

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 41237	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 6/22/2009
Subject: Re: Advice

Actually, I referred to both \\St eve's in my reply. \\Steve// was referencing my thoughts that he knew Carl Strohmeyer with AmericanAquariumProducts.com but if it wasn't \\Steve//, I'll have to do a little Google Desktop searching to try and find that old email where someone out here knew and/or vouched for the guy. I don't know him but in reading his many articles, I can tell he's a reliable source. Of course, he also sells products so he does have to promote and/or link to them in his articles. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Amber Berglund Sent: Monday, June 22, 2009 9:44 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: Advice It's the other Steve, not you \\Steve// ;) hehe. Amber Steve Szabo wrote: > > > Lenny, > > I do not know the gentleman to whom you refer. > > \\Steve// > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] > On Behalf Of Lenny V. aka GoldLenny > Sent: Monday, June 22, 2009 7:48 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: Advice > > Ray, > > You'll be proud to know I looked to see if anyone else answered. LOL > > Steve, > > I want to add to Ray's comments, YES, you should remove the Purigen > and also remove any other "chemical filtration" (carbon, etc.) from > your filter systems when treating with any medications (except for > when using salt as a medication). Salt is not absorbed by chemical > filtration... at least not to any degree where it would affect the > treatment level. > > Also see this long article > http://www.americanaquariumproducts.com/Columnaris.html > <http://www.americanaquariumproducts.com/Columnaris.html> about > Section 1) Flexibacter Columnaris (Bacteria) compared to Section 2) > Saprolegnia > (Fungus) with LOTS of pictures of both, as both present themselves > looking like a cottony fungus. > > Let us know which one looks most like what your fish has. > > The good news, according to the article, is that Furan Two is also ONE > part of a treatment for Columnaris, along with an antibiotic such as > Kanamycin so you can at least start off with the Furan Two right away > and then let us know how things are going before reconsidering > additional treatment. > > Ray, > > On a side note, the website, AmericanAquariumProducts.com and it's > owner, Carl Strohmeyer is a VERY REPUTABLE online resource. I believe > it was \\Steve// who also knows this guy or knows of him and vouched > for him in the past but an overview of his experience is listed about > 1/4th the way down this page, > http://www.americanaquariumproducts.com/AboutMe.html. > <http://www.americanaquariumproducts.com/AboutMe.html.> One day when > you have some time, I'd like you to read through some of his general > and disease articles and let me know if you see any major issues. I > think you'll be pleased with their depth. I've learned a TON from > reading through his website since his articles fill in a lot of the > blanks that might exist after reading stuff in books, magazines and > other websites. He may even be more verbose than either you or I... if > that's possible. LOL > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> (Links to any articles referenced in > above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels > and also under Archives by Year, > Month) > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] > On > Behalf Of Raymond Wetzel > Sent: Monday, June 22, 2009 5:32 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Advice > > Sounds like a Fungus, wouldn't be Ich as that appears as tiny white > spots as though sprinkled with salt. You should first try to find out > the root cause of this disease, which may often occur as a result of > poor water conditions. > An injury will also bring this on, but again, poor water will > exacerbate the condition. Check your water parameters for excess > nitrogenous wastes (ammonia, nitrite, nitrate). Always best to change > out at least 25% of the water before treatment -- more, as needed, if > your parameters are elevated (you'll need to correct any source of > waste excesses). Furan II is one of the best medications for treatment > against Fungus. Ray > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>, "Steve Biondi" <parkpac@...> > wrote: > > > > Hi All, > > > > My green Severum has a white fuzzy patch on the left side near the > > gills. I am not sure if this is ich. If it is, what is the best way > to > treat it? > > Tank is a 55 with a Rena3 using Purigen as the filter element. Do I > > need to remove the purigen when I add the ich cure? > > > > Thanks, Steve

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 41238	From: Deenerz@aol.com	Date: 6/22/2009
Subject: Re: ANGELFISH, Once again

Have you tried aquabid . com ? -Mike -----Original Message----- From: jett07002 <jett07002@...> To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Mon, Jun 22, 2009 5:33 pm Subject: [AquaticLife] ANGELFISH, Once again Ray, \\Steve//, Lenny and anyone else interested in Angelfish. I asked once a long time ago, and now I am asking again. Have any of you guys run across any real BLACK angels like we used to have back in the 80s early 90s? Since I have asked back then, and all (Ray, \\Steve//, and Lenny) have graciously answered in the negative, I am still searching for a comeback on the black angel as they were back then. I have run across some angels where the black color has "really been improved" according to the folks trying to sell them. Maybe my eyes are starting to fail me, but they do not look the same to me. joe t [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 41239	From: sa.jackson	Date: 6/22/2009
Subject: Self Adhesive Rope Caulk

Do you think this is aquarium safe? It says it is a rubber based sealant that is non-toxic. They do not release specific ingredient info. Anyone every used this? Tks!

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 41240	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 6/22/2009
Subject: Re: Tap water Baseline testing, first test.

Almost ALL dechlor products treat for heavy metals. What is the brand/product that is carried by your local Wal-Mart? Never mind, I see they also sell the Jungle Start Right Water Conditioner and after looking at DFS.com, the ingredients do not include the EDTA tetrasodium salts used for the treatment of heavy metals by most dechlor products. The Walmart.com site shows that they sell the Tetra AquaSafe dechlor, which doesn't have the added Aloe Vera. The 16 oz. bottle of Tetra AquaSafe is only $7.88. http://www.walmart.com/catalog/product.do?product_id=3635396 Walmart.com also sells several API products, but NOT their Tap Water Conditioner, which would be an even better price per gallon than the Tetra AquaSafe. They also have the 16 oz. of Stress Coat for 7.88. Here's a list of the other meds and water treatment products on Walmart.com. http://www.walmart.com/catalog/catalog.gsp?cat=202105&fromPageCatId=202100&c atNavId=202074 Considering the number of tanks that you have, you should order the gallon size of API's Tap Water Conditioner from DrsFosterSmith.com, use your account and then you won't have to use junk in your tanks for a year or more. 16 oz. treats 9,600 gallons of water so a gallon would treat close to 80,000 gallons of water. I think that would get you through a year or so. ;-) But to be sure, if you do weekly 25% PWC's on all of your tanks, and my last count had you up to around 250 gallons worth of tanks, that would be 62.5 gallons a week, times 52 weeks = ONLY 3,250 gallons a year so actually, a 16 oz. bottle of API's Tap Water Dechlor would last you about 4 years. It's only $5.69 for 16 oz. but if you want the gallon size, then that would cost you $31.99 (only $4.00 per 16 oz.) but you would be good for about 30 years. ;-) http://www.drsfostersmith.com/product/prod_display.cfm?c=3578+3974+4038&pcat id=4038 While API is generally a good company, unfortunately, they still have to compete with all of the other crap that is sold by other BIG fish product manufacturers, which is why they have their version known as Stress Coat, which besides being a dechlor, also has Aloe Vera and who knows what else in it. The MSDS http://cms.marsfishcare.com/files/msds/stress_coat_ng_030907.pdf, in Section 3., shows "Aloes, extract" and then "non hazardous ingredients" and "proprietary" ingredients making up 20% of the product and the rest (80%) is water. I'm not sure why they did not list the Sodium Thiosulphate and EDTA which are the products they use in the API Tap Water Conditioner (the regular dechlor from API). I wonder if Stress Coat uses something different and "proprietary" for Stress Coat, much like SeaChem's Prime does not list their "proprietary" ingredients on the MSDS for Prime. API also has their version of a bottled bacteria, Stress Zyme, which also does not work as advertised... at least not like Dr. Tim's One And Only, which does work. API also sells their patented (just kidding) version of Aquarium Salt, to compete with the likes of Doc. Johnson and others. Of course, the MSDS for API's Aquarium Salt lists the ingredients as 100% Sodium Chloride... imagine that, their "Aquarium Salt" and all the other aquarium salts sold for several dollars a pint are just plain and simple, good ol' salt. The stuff you can get a LOT cheaper at your local grocery store. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Amber Berglund Sent: Monday, June 22, 2009 10:03 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Tap water Baseline testing, first test. I use stress coat, and honestly I wish my LFS didn't only order it. I go through so much of it I can't afford to buy it off the internet, the shipping would be outrageous for a big bottle of anything. I've asked repeatedly if they will get a different kind of water conditioner but the owner is a jerk and refuses to order anything else *sigh*. The downfall to living on an island I suppose. I have heavy metals in my tap water so regardless I need something that takes care of heavy metals, so I can't get the one that walmart carries here, it only takes care of chlorine. Amber Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > > > That's fine. If I recall, when you posted info from your water utility a > while back, they still use Chlorine only up there... right? That would be > why you do not see the residual ammonia that results from using a dechlor > product, with the plurality of utilities that now use Chloramine. > > Which brand dechlor did you use? > > I'm not sure if Prime, or one of the other dechlors that also purportedly > treat ammonia, would actually change the test results, or not. Maybe > someone who uses Prime can test their Chloramine treated tap water, > then add > Prime and then test again to see if ammonia shows up. > > With your low pH, ammonia isn't really an issue for you anyhow. > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right > side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On > Behalf Of Amber Berglund > Sent: Monday, June 22, 2009 9:42 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Tap water Baseline testing, first test. > > All of the tests were after the dechlor product, so I don't see any > ammonia > after using the product... is that good or bad? LOL. > > Amber > > Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > > > > > > OK... Keep this thread intact by posting your 24 hour and 48 hour test > > results in this same thread. > > > > Yes, if your KH test changed colors after only one drop, it means, > at this > > stage in the testing process, you have no more than 1 dH (or less than > > 18ppm > > of Carbonate Hardness). > > > > Don't forget to add your dechlor and test the ammonia again to let > us know > > how much free ammonia you get when the chloramine bond is broken... > > usually > > around 0.5ppm. > > > > Keep the same container of water for the testing at 24 hours and 48 > hours. > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>> > > (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right > > side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, > Month) > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On > > Behalf Of Amber Berglund > > Sent: Monday, June 22, 2009 9:17 PM > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > Subject: [AquaticLife] Tap water Baseline testing, first test. > > > > First baseline testing for my tap water: > > > > pH: 6.5 or 6.6 hard to tell > > > > KH: I'm not sure how to read this one, it only takes 1 drop for the > > water to > > turn yellow, does that mean I'm somewhere near 0 ppm? The chart says 0-3 > > drops is 0-50 ppm... > > > > GH: Approximately 100 ppm > > > > Ammonia: 0 > > > > Nitrate: 0 > > > > Nitrite: 0

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 41241	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 6/22/2009
Subject: Re: Self Adhesive Rope Caulk

You didn't list a product name brand so I did a Google of "self adhesive rope caulk" and the top hit was to Duck Brand, about 1/4th the way down the page, http://duckproducts.com/homesmart/product.asp and if this is what you are talking about, then NO, it's not suitable for aquaria... at least not on any part that would come into contact with the water. It more than likely contains mildewcides (since it is recommended for windows and doors and can be painted... they wouldn't want mildew growing on the caulk) and other polymers that would leach out into the water. Even an aquarium safe silicone cannot be in contact with the water while it is curing. You should give it 24-72 hours to cure before adding water to a tank that was repaired with an aquarium safe silicone (depending on how thick of a bead that was used). There are a couple of products that can be applied under water with fish but it depends on what you need. Tell us what you're looking to fix. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of sa.jackson Sent: Monday, June 22, 2009 10:41 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Self Adhesive Rope Caulk Do you think this is aquarium safe? It says it is a rubber based sealant that is non-toxic. They do not release specific ingredient info. Anyone every used this? Tks!

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 41242	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 6/22/2009
Subject: Re: Tap water Baseline testing, first test.

Unfortunately I cannot have stuff shipped site to store from walmart.com, and I asked the hubby if they can order larger sized bottles than the tiny itty bitty ones they have now (tetra aquasafe). I was told no, because they don't sell enough of the normal aquasafe to warrant ordering a bigger bottle of it. Does that treat heavy metals? I also cannot order from drsfostersmith.com with my fed ex account number, they tell me "it's not possible" blah blah blah, little do they know I could email them a label for the stupid box but yet they argue with me in circles. They just don't want to do it basically. I could probably make a phone call and ask for a manager and eventually get my way if I was that pushy of a person, but I'm not ;) Maybe I can get the local "mom and pop" hardware and feed store to order me some bigger bottles of something cheep ;) I will have to ask her what she normally orders, I'm pretty sure I saw the tetra aquasafe there as well as walmart. Amber Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > > > Almost ALL dechlor products treat for heavy metals. What is the > brand/product that is carried by your local Wal-Mart? Never mind, I see > they also sell the Jungle Start Right Water Conditioner and after > looking at > DFS.com, the ingredients do not include the EDTA tetrasodium salts > used for > the treatment of heavy metals by most dechlor products. > > The Walmart.com site shows that they sell the Tetra AquaSafe dechlor, > which > doesn't have the added Aloe Vera. The 16 oz. bottle of Tetra AquaSafe is > only $7.88. > http://www.walmart.com/catalog/product.do?product_id=3635396 > <http://www.walmart.com/catalog/product.do?product_id=3635396> > Walmart.com also sells several API products, but NOT their Tap Water > Conditioner, which would be an even better price per gallon than the Tetra > AquaSafe. They also have the 16 oz. of Stress Coat for 7.88. > Here's a list of the other meds and water treatment products on > Walmart.com. > http://www.walmart.com/catalog/catalog.gsp?cat=202105&fromPageCatId=202100&c > <http://www.walmart.com/catalog/catalog.gsp?cat=202105&fromPageCatId=202100&c> > atNavId=202074 > > Considering the number of tanks that you have, you should order the gallon > size of API's Tap Water Conditioner from DrsFosterSmith.com, use your > account and then you won't have to use junk in your tanks for a year or > more. 16 oz. treats 9,600 gallons of water so a gallon would treat > close to > 80,000 gallons of water. I think that would get you through a year or so. > ;-) But to be sure, if you do weekly 25% PWC's on all of your tanks, > and my > last count had you up to around 250 gallons worth of tanks, that would be > 62.5 gallons a week, times 52 weeks = ONLY 3,250 gallons a year so > actually, > a 16 oz. bottle of API's Tap Water Dechlor would last you about 4 years. > It's only $5.69 for 16 oz. but if you want the gallon size, then that > would > cost you $31.99 (only $4.00 per 16 oz.) but you would be good for about 30 > years. ;-) > http://www.drsfostersmith.com/product/prod_display.cfm?c=3578+3974+4038&pcat > <http://www.drsfostersmith.com/product/prod_display.cfm?c=3578+3974+4038&pcat> > id=4038 > > While API is generally a good company, unfortunately, they still have to > compete with all of the other crap that is sold by other BIG fish product > manufacturers, which is why they have their version known as Stress Coat, > which besides being a dechlor, also has Aloe Vera and who knows what > else in > it. The MSDS > http://cms.marsfishcare.com/files/msds/stress_coat_ng_030907.pdf, > <http://cms.marsfishcare.com/files/msds/stress_coat_ng_030907.pdf,> in > Section > 3., shows "Aloes, extract" and then "non hazardous ingredients" and > "proprietary" ingredients making up 20% of the product and the rest > (80%) is > water. I'm not sure why they did not list the Sodium Thiosulphate and EDTA > which are the products they use in the API Tap Water Conditioner (the > regular dechlor from API). I wonder if Stress Coat uses something > different > and "proprietary" for Stress Coat, much like SeaChem's Prime does not list > their "proprietary" ingredients on the MSDS for Prime. > > API also has their version of a bottled bacteria, Stress Zyme, which also > does not work as advertised... at least not like Dr. Tim's One And Only, > which does work. > > API also sells their patented (just kidding) version of Aquarium Salt, to > compete with the likes of Doc. Johnson and others. Of course, the MSDS for > API's Aquarium Salt lists the ingredients as 100% Sodium Chloride... > imagine > that, their "Aquarium Salt" and all the other aquarium salts sold for > several dollars a pint are just plain and simple, good ol' salt. The stuff > you can get a LOT cheaper at your local grocery store. > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right > side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On > Behalf Of Amber Berglund > Sent: Monday, June 22, 2009 10:03 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Tap water Baseline testing, first test. > > I use stress coat, and honestly I wish my LFS didn't only order it. I go > through so much of it I can't afford to buy it off the internet, the > shipping would be outrageous for a big bottle of anything. > I've asked repeatedly if they will get a different kind of water > conditioner > but the owner is a jerk and refuses to order anything else *sigh*. The > downfall to living on an island I suppose. > I have heavy metals in my tap water so regardless I need something that > takes care of heavy metals, so I can't get the one that walmart carries > here, it only takes care of chlorine. > > Amber > > Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > > > > > > That's fine. If I recall, when you posted info from your water utility a > > while back, they still use Chlorine only up there... right? That > would be > > why you do not see the residual ammonia that results from using a > dechlor > > product, with the plurality of utilities that now use Chloramine. > > > > Which brand dechlor did you use? > > > > I'm not sure if Prime, or one of the other dechlors that also > purportedly > > treat ammonia, would actually change the test results, or not. Maybe > > someone who uses Prime can test their Chloramine treated tap water, > > then add > > Prime and then test again to see if ammonia shows up. > > > > With your low pH, ammonia isn't really an issue for you anyhow. > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>> > > (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right > > side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, > Month) > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On > > Behalf Of Amber Berglund > > Sent: Monday, June 22, 2009 9:42 PM > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Tap water Baseline testing, first test. > > > > All of the tests were after the dechlor product, so I don't see any > > ammonia > > after using the product... is that good or bad? LOL. > > > > Amber > > > > Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > > > > > > > > > OK... Keep this thread intact by posting your 24 hour and 48 hour test > > > results in this same thread. > > > > > > Yes, if your KH test changed colors after only one drop, it means, > > at this > > > stage in the testing process, you have no more than 1 dH (or less than > > > 18ppm > > > of Carbonate Hardness). > > > > > > Don't forget to add your dechlor and test the ammonia again to let > > us know > > > how much free ammonia you get when the chloramine bond is broken... > > > usually > > > around 0.5ppm. > > > > > > Keep the same container of water for the testing at 24 hours and 48 > > hours. > > > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>>> > > > (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the > right > > > side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, > > Month) > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On > > > Behalf Of Amber Berglund > > > Sent: Monday, June 22, 2009 9:17 PM > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > Subject: [AquaticLife] Tap water Baseline testing, first test. > > > > > > First baseline testing for my tap water: > > > > > > pH: 6.5 or 6.6 hard to tell > > > > > > KH: I'm not sure how to read this one, it only takes 1 drop for the > > > water to > > > turn yellow, does that mean I'm somewhere near 0 ppm? The chart > says 0-3 > > > drops is 0-50 ppm... > > > > > > GH: Approximately 100 ppm > > > > > > Ammonia: 0 > > > > > > Nitrate: 0 > > > > > > Nitrite: 0 > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 41243	From: Lisa	Date: 6/22/2009
Subject: New blue yabby

Hi all, I bought home today my new blue yabby. My LFS owner says he thinks it's a female, although it's still a young one, so may turn out to be a male. It's roughly just over 5 inches long at the moment, excluding it's antennae. There is a spattering of red between it's joints of it's pinchers and arms. And the majority of the body is a pale sky blue. I ended up putting my tank divider back in cause I decided I didn't want it to eat my male albino bristle nose catfish, which it seemed like it was attempting to do, not long after I put it in the tank. It's already claimed a cave to itself I called it 'Miss blu Bones' or `Blu' for short. Lisa

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 41244	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 6/22/2009
Subject: Re: New blue yabby

I believe someone already said they are aggressive, wasn't that you Lenny? Amber Lisa wrote: > > > Hi all, I bought home today my new blue yabby. > My LFS owner says he thinks it's a female, although it's still a young > one, so may turn out to be a male. > It's roughly just over 5 inches long at the moment, excluding it's > antennae. > There is a spattering of red between it's joints of it's pinchers and > arms. > And the majority of the body is a pale sky blue. > > I ended up putting my tank divider back in cause I decided I didn't > want it to eat my male albino bristle nose catfish, which it seemed > like it was attempting to do, not long after I put it in the tank. > > It's already claimed a cave to itself > > I called it…'Miss blu Bones' or `Blu' for short. > > Lisa > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 41245	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 6/22/2009
Subject: Re: Thoughts on walstad tank setups

Certainly not wanting to steer you away from here, but I think I've told you before that Diane Walstad has her own "El-Natural" forum, or rather one that she moderates, all about Walstad tanks, where you might be able to get better info if we can't come up with something that works. http://www.aquaticplantcentral.com/forumapc/el-natural/ Of course, the first time I saw that name, I thought it was for something else to do with going "El-Natural". Needless to say, they weren't real happy with my "Naked GoldLenny" avatar. LOL Your other option is to start using Hydrogen Peroxide and a syringe (maybe a big one for your big tank) and start spot treating the algae on your plants and of course, scraping it from the glass on the front and sides. Leave it on the back until you start to see it NOT coming back on the plants and glass and then you can start scraping it in stages off the back glass. From all I've read, and tried, you can safely use 1 oz. per 10G of water, I think on a daily basis or maybe it was repeating the dosing after doing a 25% PWC. Just don't squirt it right onto any fish... shoo them away. The below articles give more details. http://www.thekrib.com/Plants/Algae/hydrogen-peroxide.html http://www.malawicichlidhomepage.com/aquainfo/algae_peroxide.html Another option would be using Barley Straw or Barley Pellets as a filter additive. As the Barley breaks down, it releases Hydrogen Peroxide and there may also be some allelochemicals in the Barley that helps to fight Algae. It's used by Ponders all the time but it may need natural sunlight to work properly which is why it may not have taken off in the aquaria trade. This thread on The Krib further enforces the need for sunlight so this will not be a viable option for aquariums but since I started typing this, I figured I'd leave it. http://www.thekrib.com/Plants/Algae/barley.html Speaking of Allelochemicals, Hornwort is at least one plant that is also said to fight Algae by not only using up nutrients and CO2 and blocking the light from lower plants, but also by releasing Allelochemicals into the water that inhibit algae growth. You can Google to try and find other plants that might be available in your area that also has this property. If you can float a LOT of Hornwort in your tank, it will block out some of the light, suck up some of the nutrients and release the allelochemicals. Hornwort can't be the only plant that does this... can it? Let us know your findings. Oops.. never mind, while looking in my VAST Favorites Folder, I see that I have a sub-folder under Algae for Allelopathic Controls so here are some of the links I have in that folder. GOOD ARTICLE ABOUT ALLELOPATHY IN GENERAL, NOT JUST IN AQUARIA - http://edis.ifas.ufl.edu/HS186 http://aquamaniacs.net/forum/cms_view_article.php?aid=63 http://aquariummalta.com/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=1162&FORUM_ID=79&CAT_ID=31&Forum _Title=Food+and+feeding&Topic_Title=Hornwort+and+Infusoria&whichpage=1&tmp=1 #pid23779 http://www.aquahobby.com/e2004/viewtopic.php?t=10785 Diana Walstad's Book also has a chapter on Allelopathy and plants - http://www.bookmasters.com/marktplc/rr00388.htm This LONG Scientific Article also has at least this one section about Hornwort's Allelopathic properties which seems to be supported by published scientific articles. http://www.discoverlife.org/mp/20q?search=Ceratophyllum+demersum "General impacts Ceratophyllum demersum has been spread throughout the world via the aquarium and pond trade, and is considered to be a weed of waterways in many regions of the world, due to its ability to spread rapidly, invade a wide range of aquatic habitats, and grow to deeper depths than some other weed species (NIWA, 2005a). C. demersum is able to dominant waterbodies. Its presence can affect phytoplankton development in three ways: by competition for inorganic nitrogen, competition for light, and allelopathy (Mjelde and Faafeng, 1997). A dense bed of C. demersum can remove up to 0.1 g N per square metre per day during the early growth stage. Allelopathy, the inhibition of growth of a plant species by chemicals produced by another species, has been shown to occur by C. Demersum (Mjelde and Faafeng, 1997; Korner and Nicklisch, 2002; Gross et al. 2003). Chemical compounds isolated from C. Demersum have been shown to inhibit the growth of phytoplankton (Mjelde and Faafeng, 1997; Korner and Nicklisch, 2002) and nitrogen-fixing cyanobacteria (Gross et al. 2003). Allelopathy by C. Demersum can change waterbodies by stabilising the dominance of aquatic plants over phytoplankton (Scheffer et al ., 1993; in Gross et al. 2003)." Also, read and re-read this article about fighting algae... including the section "Natural Chemistry" where The Skeptical Aquarist talks about various Allelopathic ways to fight algae. http://www.skepticalaquarist.com/docs/algae/algcont.shtml Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Amber Berglund Sent: Monday, June 22, 2009 10:07 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Thoughts on walstad tank setups Okay after having my walstad tank running for several months (since the end of last november to be precise), I can honestly say that if done properly the tank is gorgeous. Now if I could get rid of all the black beard algae that'd be great ;) LOL. I was going to use flourish excel in the tank but I realized that it'll cause all of my val's to melt. Will the val's grow back after melting from flourish products? I honestly prefer the plant growth to all the rest of my tanks and I'm considering converting the tanks over to walstad tanks some day in the future. If I don't switch them to walstad then I'd definitely like to get some plant gravel instead, either way I prefer the looks of the tank over the other tanks in the house (potted plants in terra cotta pots, or just easy to grow plants stuck in the gravel). Amber

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 41246	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 6/22/2009
Subject: Re: New blue yabby

5"? I think that's bigger than a baby. That's almost boiling size down here in N'Awlins... or rather up here from you. LOL One wouldn't do though.. we'd need a sack full! ;-) Did you get my previous reply? I warned you about keeping it in a community tank. Crawfish are mostly carnivores although some are omnivores. They are also GREAT CLIMBERS so if that tank divider doesn't go all the way to the hood, it will easily climb over it to get to that sushi meal on the other side. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Lisa Sent: Tuesday, June 23, 2009 12:07 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] New blue yabby Hi all, I bought home today my new blue yabby. My LFS owner says he thinks it's a female, although it's still a young one, so may turn out to be a male. It's roughly just over 5 inches long at the moment, excluding it's antennae. There is a spattering of red between it's joints of it's pinchers and arms. And the majority of the body is a pale sky blue. I ended up putting my tank divider back in cause I decided I didn't want it to eat my male albino bristle nose catfish, which it seemed like it was attempting to do, not long after I put it in the tank. It's already claimed a cave to itself I called it.'Miss blu Bones' or `Blu' for short. Lisa

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 41247	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 6/22/2009
Subject: Re: New blue yabby

Yep. I posted a reasonably long reply when she made the initial announcement... was that yesterday? Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Amber Berglund Sent: Tuesday, June 23, 2009 12:25 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] New blue yabby I believe someone already said they are aggressive, wasn't that you Lenny? Amber Lisa wrote: > > > Hi all, I bought home today my new blue yabby. > My LFS owner says he thinks it's a female, although it's still a young > one, so may turn out to be a male. > It's roughly just over 5 inches long at the moment, excluding it's > antennae. > There is a spattering of red between it's joints of it's pinchers and > arms. > And the majority of the body is a pale sky blue. > > I ended up putting my tank divider back in cause I decided I didn't > want it to eat my male albino bristle nose catfish, which it seemed > like it was attempting to do, not long after I put it in the tank. > > It's already claimed a cave to itself > > I called it 'Miss blu Bones' or `Blu' for short. > > Lisa > > ------------------------------------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the home page. Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com to receive the digest, which includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com for the No E-Mail option where you will still be able to read messages on the group and post replies. Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com to receive individual e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 41248	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 6/22/2009
Subject: Re: New blue yabby

All the days blend together, I thought it was saturday ;) LOL. Either way I remember reading it ;) Amber Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > > > Yep. I posted a reasonably long reply when she made the initial > announcement... was that yesterday? > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right > side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) > > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On > Behalf Of Amber Berglund > Sent: Tuesday, June 23, 2009 12:25 AM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] New blue yabby > > I believe someone already said they are aggressive, wasn't that you Lenny? > > Amber > > Lisa wrote: > > > > > > Hi all, I bought home today my new blue yabby. > > My LFS owner says he thinks it's a female, although it's still a young > > one, so may turn out to be a male. > > It's roughly just over 5 inches long at the moment, excluding it's > > antennae. > > There is a spattering of red between it's joints of it's pinchers and > > arms. > > And the majority of the body is a pale sky blue. > > > > I ended up putting my tank divider back in cause I decided I didn't > > want it to eat my male albino bristle nose catfish, which it seemed > > like it was attempting to do, not long after I put it in the tank. > > > > It's already claimed a cave to itself > > > > I called it…'Miss blu Bones' or `Blu' for short. > > > > Lisa > > > > > > ------------------------------------ > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. > ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> > PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to > the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the > SUBJECT > LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- > <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. > > If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of unsubscribing, you > can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the > home page. > > Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:aquaticlife-digest%40yahoogroups.com> to receive the digest, which > includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email > > Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:aquaticlife-nomail%40yahoogroups.com> for the No E-Mail option > where > you will still be able to read messages on the group and post replies. > > Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:aquaticlife-normal%40yahoogroups.com> to receive individual > e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 41249	From: Lisa	Date: 6/22/2009
Subject: Re: New blue yabby

Hey Amber and Lenny. Yes Lenny, I did get your previous email, and had a good read through all of it. :) Thankyou. :) If my new cray is gonna get through this gap between the divider and the hood, it would have to be anorexic lol. It might get a leg through, but that's it i think. The gap is tiny. I'm very excited about my new addition, and look forward to the many smiles i'm sure she will give me. Lisa

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 41250	From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com	Date: 6/23/2009
Subject: New poll for AquaticLife

Enter your vote today! A new poll has been created for the AquaticLife group: Do you primarily use email to receive messages and reply to messages or do you use the Group's Messages section to read and reply? Recently, Yahoo!, Inc., added several "grouplets" (applets but for Yahoo Groups) as services available to group members. Have you used any of them with this or any other Yahoo Group? They are listed under the Groups Labs (Beta) Applications link here: http://pets.groups.yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife/grouplets/subscriptions Some of the grouplets that might be of interest: Favorites - Enable your group to build a list of their favorite things. You can choose one of our default list types (favorite posts, movies, music, books, or TV) or create your own custom favorites type {Favorite LFS} Give Away - Whether you're a Freecycling or Freesharing group that is dedicated to giving stuff away or you're a group that is about something else entirely but just wants to make exchanges possible among group members, this application makes it easier for folks to give stuff away. Group Profile - Allow your members to create an online profile that is just for this group with questions that you decide. How To (Instructions) - Enable group memebers to share "how to" guides People Map - The People Map provides an easy way for group members to share where they're from and can also be used to create a dynamic address book for the group or to create group specific profiles. Places Map - A great way for group members to share information about places that are relevant to the group. Questions & Answers - Enable members to ask and answer questions Rate My Pics - Create a "hot or not" for your group about anything (for fish & aquarium pictures, not group members personal photos of themselves) Reviews - Enable your group to share reviews of restaurants, local businesses and services, electronics, movies, music, and more. Or create your own custom review application (for LFS and online suppliers, sounds similar to favorites) o I primarily read and reply to messages by email o I primarily read and reply to messages by the Group's Messages section o I have used Yahoo Group "grouplets" before o I have NOT used Yahoo Group "grouplets" before. o Since I mostly use email, I probably would NOT use "grouplets" very much o Since I mostly use the Group's website, I probably would use "grouplets" when needed To vote, please visit the following web page: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife/surveys?id=2526371 Note: Please do not reply to this message. Poll votes are not collected via email. To vote, you must go to the Yahoo! Groups web site listed above. Thanks!

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 41251	From: Dora Smith	Date: 6/23/2009
Subject: How many mosquito larvae do I feed one betta?

My betta loves mosquito larvae, and I understand they are highly nutritious; but how many do I feed him? Yours, Dora Smith Austin, TX tiggernut24@...

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 41252	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 6/23/2009
Subject: New poll for AquaticLife - Email, Website and Grouplets

The owner of the group asked me to start this poll to find out what folks think. Please go vote at: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife/surveys?id=2526371 While at the Member's Polls section, check out the other Polls that are still open and cast your votes for those as well. If you have any questions or comments, please post them in this new thread. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] Sent: Tuesday, June 23, 2009 2:09 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] New poll for AquaticLife Enter your vote today! A new poll has been created for the AquaticLife group: Do you primarily use email to receive messages and reply to messages or do you use the Group's Messages section to read and reply? Recently, Yahoo!, Inc., added several "grouplets" (applets but for Yahoo Groups) as services available to group members. Have you used any of them with this or any other Yahoo Group? They are listed under the Groups Labs (Beta) Applications link here: http://pets.groups.yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife/grouplets/subscriptions Some of the grouplets that might be of interest: Favorites - Enable your group to build a list of their favorite things. You can choose one of our default list types (favorite posts, movies, music, books, or TV) or create your own custom favorites type {Favorite LFS} Give Away - Whether you're a Freecycling or Freesharing group that is dedicated to giving stuff away or you're a group that is about something else entirely but just wants to make exchanges possible among group members, this application makes it easier for folks to give stuff away. Group Profile - Allow your members to create an online profile that is just for this group with questions that you decide. How To (Instructions) - Enable group memebers to share "how to" guides People Map - The People Map provides an easy way for group members to share where they're from and can also be used to create a dynamic address book for the group or to create group specific profiles. Places Map - A great way for group members to share information about places that are relevant to the group. Questions & Answers - Enable members to ask and answer questions Rate My Pics - Create a "hot or not" for your group about anything (for fish & aquarium pictures, not group members personal photos of themselves) Reviews - Enable your group to share reviews of restaurants, local businesses and services, electronics, movies, music, and more. Or create your own custom review application (for LFS and online suppliers, sounds similar to favorites) o I primarily read and reply to messages by email o I primarily read and reply to messages by the Group's Messages section o I have used Yahoo Group "grouplets" before o I have NOT used Yahoo Group "grouplets" before. o Since I mostly use email, I probably would NOT use "grouplets" very much o Since I mostly use the Group's website, I probably would use "grouplets" when needed To vote, please visit the following web page: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife/surveys?id=2526371 Note: Please do not reply to this message. Poll votes are not collected via email. To vote, you must go to the Yahoo! Groups web site listed above. Thanks!

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 41253	From: Jasmine	Date: 6/23/2009
Subject: Re: Pelco verse Bristlenose

Hi Ray, thank you for this information – we went and had another look at our tank and though a bit hard to identify every angel (4 are still too young) it would appear that we 'may' have 5 females and two males. I went looking for your recent post on sexing angels that you mentioned, I couldn't find it. Could you re-post or send to me direct please. Thanking you in advance, I really appreciate it. Jasmine --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Raymond Wetzel" <sevenspringss@...> wrote: > > Hi Jasmine, The other Angelfish that you posted yesterday, that you feel is a female is actually the male. This Angelfish that you just posted today, in the right forefront (with the male in the left background) in both recent photos, is the female. You have them reversed in you diagnosis of their sex. If anyone told you about the dorsal fin's ability as being contractable in Angelfish as a trait in determining male Angels, they are completely wrong. This ability to contract or widen the Dorsal fin is present in many Angels, to varying degrees. The main reason why your other Angelfish (the one you believe to be a female) is not seen to show this trait is because it's Dorsal fin is bent. > > As for the position of the anus in Angels, while the pores for the breeding tubes of fish are located to the rear of the anus, the male's anus is located farther back than the female's -- somewhat closer to his breeding tube. If you saw one of these two Angelfish excreting towards the back of the Angelfish's body, this is just one more reason why it would be a male. > > In Cichlids, Angelfish included, if you were to net and remove each fish from the tank and invert it to observe the position and appearance of their sexual organs in relation to their anus (this procedure is called "venting"), you would find a figure-8 configuration of these two openings in the male, showing you the close proximity of his gential pore to his anal pore, as the borders of both of these pores join. In the female, you would see two distinctly separate pore openings, with the anal pore located a short distance away (slightly forward) from her gential opening, creating a gap of plain body tissue (skin) between them -- this area would appear as two separate "O's" as "O O" (rather than as "OO" in the male). So by this, you should be able to see that it's the male that has been excreting more towards the rear of his body. "Venting" can best be seen in larger Cichlids, such as Oscars, but is observable in all Cichlids, displaying their sexual differences. > > If you can see the male's breeding tube facing forward, and the female's breeding tube facing backward, you're GOOD! Granted, there is a slight slant to these tubes when extended, but so slight in Angelfish that it's barely perceptable. For all intents and purposes, when these fish are breeding, both of their tubes appear to extend straight down. The female's ovipositor is thicker and blunt on the end, whereas the male's breeding tube is conical in shape, coming to a point. > > As for the "exiled" Angelfish, as it's position in the photo does not lend to a good view in determining its sex, I really can't tell if it's a male or female, but the fact that it will contract or expand its Dorsal fin does not preclude its being a female. > > The much mellower behavior of the pair towards the "exiled" (yellow, silver-striped) Angel at night when the lighting is more subdued is not strange at all -- and can be expected -- just as much as when the lights are on during the day, that the pair harasses this lone Angelfish. For this same reason, while Angels (and Angelfish pairs) will all behave somewhat differently within the confines of the extablished behavior of this species, it's always best to breed these fish in more subdued light -- unless they are being housed in a much larger than ordinary tank. The sense of sight in fishes is one of the prime (if not, THE prime) source of these animals' environmental stimuli input. The greater the light intensity, the greater is the "glaring" of their view of their surroundings including that of their conspecifics as a stimulus to their brain and what (and how) they perceive their conspecifics; this includes the stimuli they receive as how they perceive their mates as well. > > If the image they are receiving of an intruder conspecific, such as this lone Angelfish, is especially glaring from brighter lighting, the stimuli of the presence of this fish in their (the pair's) vicinity is increasingly strong -- to the point the it can be interpreted as challenging. Likewise, for a pair which may be ordinarily high-strung towards each other in behavior, compared to the norm of Angelfish behavior. With such pairs, it's especially important not to keep bright lights on them. Such intense visual stimuli as a "glaring" image of their mate can be interpreted as challenging. More subdued lighting always defuses such a situation, regardless of any Angelfish pair's individual behavior. Ray > > P.S.: Please reread my recent post on sexing Angelfish. You should be able to see the obvious traits I've pointed out in both sexes as relates to your pair.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 41254	From: Donna Ransome	Date: 6/23/2009
Subject: Re: Self Adhesive Rope Caulk

No it should be pure silicone with no mildew or mold resistant chemicals. I used a silicone I had used before with success in a tank but the mfg added “bio safe” and it killed all my fish. I had to strip the tank to get all the stuff out and start over. Better to just use aquarium silicone and be safe. _____ From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of sa.jackson Sent: Monday, June 22, 2009 11:41 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Self Adhesive Rope Caulk Do you think this is aquarium safe? It says it is a rubber based sealant that is non-toxic. They do not release specific ingredient info. Anyone every used this? Tks! [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 41255	From: Jasmine	Date: 6/23/2009
Subject: Angels

Hi Ray I've managed to get two shots of the 'exiled' angel (right profile and left profile). It certainly doesn't have the same 'hump' on its head as the male you pointed out. I always thought the hump may have been part of the type of angel it was - silly me. Several weeks ago we happen to notice that this same angel has a black pimple like mark - see photo titled 'Exiled angel_03 23.06.09'. This black mark looks like it is protruding out of the other side of the fish - see 'Exiled angel_02 23.06.09'. The mark doesn't seem to be causing any problems but I'm sure it has grown slightly since we first noticed it about 2 months ago. It really reminds me of a black head pimple. I can't get a good shot of that area on the angel (as it hides most of the time). When we get our other tank set up, the eco system all ready and the paired off angels transferred into that tank - I might be able to get a better shot then. Thanks again for you help and advice. Jasmine

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 41256	From: Jasmine	Date: 6/23/2009
Subject: Re: ANGELFISH, Once again

I thought I had a really nice black angel - slightly different dorsal fin to all the rest of my angels but, when I tried taking photos of it tonight, the camera showed me 'tourer shell' colours reflecting off the angel. I haven't seen any pitch black ones except in books. Good luck in finding one. Jasmine --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "jett07002" <jett07002@...> wrote: > > Ray, \\Steve//, Lenny and anyone else interested in Angelfish. > > I asked once a long time ago, and now I am asking again. Have any of you guys run across any real BLACK angels like we used to have back in the 80s early 90s? > > Since I have asked back then, and all (Ray, \\Steve//, and Lenny) have graciously answered in the negative, I am still searching for a comeback on the black angel as they were back then. > > I have run across some angels where the black color has "really been improved" according to the folks trying to sell them. Maybe my eyes are starting to fail me, but they do not look the same to me. > > joe t >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 41257	From: Raymond Wetzel	Date: 6/23/2009
Subject: Re: Sexing Angelfish, was: Pleco verse Bristlenose

Hi Jasmine, Glad the info has been of some help. I had another look at your silver w/black stripes Angelfish (the "exiled" one) and even though it's on an oblique angle and not perpendicular to the lens, I have to say it's a female with as much as I can determine from this shot. When I first approved this batch of your pics (I approved both batches) to be posted, I really didn't look too closely at this one -- I was looking more at the male Marble Angel which you thought was a female. If you'd like, unless you're still unsure of my diagnosis, I could edit that caption for you to any other wording you'd like. You had a number of duplicate pics, with the same captions as those that were posted although the words were just changed around a bit. As they were just duplicates, I deleted them. Perhaps you thought some of them never even made it up to the site to get approved, so you sent the same ones again(?); if so that would explain them being dupicated when they all reached me, I've seen this a number of times in the past. BTW, that young Angel has tendencies of being a male. My earlier post on sexing Angelfish can be easily found in the archives (messages found right on the Group Home Page after hitting "Messages" in the menu). It's message #41015, entitled -- Distinguishing Characteristics in Sexing Angelfish -- posted on 6/19/09 @ 10:25 AM. This should be able to help you out further and fill in information additional to what I've given you. While I think of it, and with the Subject of "Lighting" in mind from a recent reply to you, please keep in mind that lighting should always be reduced/subdued whenever removing Angels' eggs from the pair. Sections of slate are generally used for the purpose of offering the pairs a spawning site, and this should be replaced immediately with another section of slate at the time the slate with eggs is removed. In subdued lighting, the pair don't seem to notice that the eggs are missing and only get used to the idea gradually which causes no upset in the pair; they will even continue to fan this new bare slate until that part of their breeding cycle wears off, as the lack of visual stimuli of eggs gets reinforced slowly. If strong lighting were to remain, the visually glaring stimulus of a bare slate suddenly confronting the pair may well cause aggression between them, each one seeing the complete lack of eggs as the other one having eaten them. Dither fish may come in handy here in redirecting any aggression towards them (as they would then be blamed for the missing eggs), but they're really completely unnecessary if common sense in lighting is followed. I know of very few breeders who use dither fish with Angels, even if they have them as a diversion with other more aggressive Cichlids. Ray --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Jasmine" <adonaikam@...> wrote: > > Hi Ray, thank you for this information – we went and had another look at our tank and though a bit hard to identify every angel (4 are still too young) it would appear that we 'may' have 5 females and two males. > > I went looking for your recent post on sexing angels that you mentioned, I couldn't find it. Could you re-post or send to me direct please. Thanking you in advance, I really appreciate it. > Jasmine > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Raymond Wetzel" <sevenspringss@> wrote: > > > > Hi Jasmine, The other Angelfish that you posted yesterday, that you feel is a female is actually the male. This Angelfish that you just posted today, in the right forefront (with the male in the left background) in both recent photos, is the female. You have them reversed in you diagnosis of their sex. If anyone told you about the dorsal fin's ability as being contractable in Angelfish as a trait in determining male Angels, they are completely wrong. This ability to contract or widen the Dorsal fin is present in many Angels, to varying degrees. The main reason why your other Angelfish (the one you believe to be a female) is not seen to show this trait is because it's Dorsal fin is bent. > > > > As for the position of the anus in Angels, while the pores for the breeding tubes of fish are located to the rear of the anus, the male's anus is located farther back than the female's -- somewhat closer to his breeding tube. If you saw one of these two Angelfish excreting towards the back of the Angelfish's body, this is just one more reason why it would be a male. > > > > In Cichlids, Angelfish included, if you were to net and remove each fish from the tank and invert it to observe the position and appearance of their sexual organs in relation to their anus (this procedure is called "venting"), you would find a figure-8 configuration of these two openings in the male, showing you the close proximity of his gential pore to his anal pore, as the borders of both of these pores join. In the female, you would see two distinctly separate pore openings, with the anal pore located a short distance away (slightly forward) from her gential opening, creating a gap of plain body tissue (skin) between them -- this area would appear as two separate "O's" as "O O" (rather than as "OO" in the male). So by this, you should be able to see that it's the male that has been excreting more towards the rear of his body. "Venting" can best be seen in larger Cichlids, such as Oscars, but is observable in all Cichlids, displaying their sexual differences. > > > > If you can see the male's breeding tube facing forward, and the female's breeding tube facing backward, you're GOOD! Granted, there is a slight slant to these tubes when extended, but so slight in Angelfish that it's barely perceptable. For all intents and purposes, when these fish are breeding, both of their tubes appear to extend straight down. The female's ovipositor is thicker and blunt on the end, whereas the male's breeding tube is conical in shape, coming to a point. > > > > As for the "exiled" Angelfish, as it's position in the photo does not lend to a good view in determining its sex, I really can't tell if it's a male or female, but the fact that it will contract or expand its Dorsal fin does not preclude its being a female. > > > > The much mellower behavior of the pair towards the "exiled" (yellow, silver-striped) Angel at night when the lighting is more subdued is not strange at all -- and can be expected -- just as much as when the lights are on during the day, that the pair harasses this lone Angelfish. For this same reason, while Angels (and Angelfish pairs) will all behave somewhat differently within the confines of the extablished behavior of this species, it's always best to breed these fish in more subdued light -- unless they are being housed in a much larger than ordinary tank. The sense of sight in fishes is one of the prime (if not, THE prime) source of these animals' environmental stimuli input. The greater the light intensity, the greater is the "glaring" of their view of their surroundings including that of their conspecifics as a stimulus to their brain and what (and how) they perceive their conspecifics; this includes the stimuli they receive as how they perceive their mates as well. > > > > If the image they are receiving of an intruder conspecific, such as this lone Angelfish, is especially glaring from brighter lighting, the stimuli of the presence of this fish in their (the pair's) vicinity is increasingly strong -- to the point the it can be interpreted as challenging. Likewise, for a pair which may be ordinarily high-strung towards each other in behavior, compared to the norm of Angelfish behavior. With such pairs, it's especially important not to keep bright lights on them. Such intense visual stimuli as a "glaring" image of their mate can be interpreted as challenging. More subdued lighting always defuses such a situation, regardless of any Angelfish pair's individual behavior. Ray > > > > P.S.: Please reread my recent post on sexing Angelfish. You should be able to see the obvious traits I've pointed out in both sexes as relates to your pair. >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 41258	From: Jasmine	Date: 6/23/2009
Subject: Re: Sexing Angelfish, was: Pleco verse Bristlenose

Hi Ray, With regards to the duplicate photos being posted - that was me, I thought they may not have gotten through until I realised that they have to be approved first. Sorry about that and thank you for vetting them. Feel free to edit the caption on the photos to make them more understandable. I certainly would welcome the help here. I am hoping that they don't spawn soon. I would prefer that they do that after we transfer them into their own tank. I just can't do that at the moment. thank you for the reference to your post. I was using the searching function at the top of the message page, never though of the archives. Thank you again. You have been really helpful. Jasmine --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Raymond Wetzel" <sevenspringss@...> wrote: > > Hi Jasmine, Glad the info has been of some help. I had another look at your silver w/black stripes Angelfish (the "exiled" one) and even though it's on an oblique angle and not perpendicular to the lens, I have to say it's a female with as much as I can determine from this shot. When I first approved this batch of your pics (I approved both batches) to be posted, I really didn't look too closely at this one -- I was looking more at the male Marble Angel which you thought was a female. > > If you'd like, unless you're still unsure of my diagnosis, I could edit that caption for you to any other wording you'd like. You had a number of duplicate pics, with the same captions as those that were posted although the words were just changed around a bit. As they were just duplicates, I deleted them. Perhaps you thought some of them never even made it up to the site to get approved, so you sent the same ones again(?); if so that would explain them being dupicated when they all reached me, I've seen this a number of times in the past. BTW, that young Angel has tendencies of being a male. > > My earlier post on sexing Angelfish can be easily found in the archives (messages found right on the Group Home Page after hitting "Messages" in the menu). It's message #41015, entitled -- Distinguishing Characteristics in Sexing Angelfish -- posted on 6/19/09 @ 10:25 AM. This should be able to help you out further and fill in information additional to what I've given you. > > While I think of it, and with the Subject of "Lighting" in mind from a recent reply to you, please keep in mind that lighting should always be reduced/subdued whenever removing Angels' eggs from the pair. Sections of slate are generally used for the purpose of offering the pairs a spawning site, and this should be replaced immediately with another section of slate at the time the slate with eggs is removed. In subdued lighting, the pair don't seem to notice that the eggs are missing and only get used to the idea gradually which causes no upset in the pair; they will even continue to fan this new bare slate until that part of their breeding cycle wears off, as the lack of visual stimuli of eggs gets reinforced slowly. If strong lighting were to remain, the visually glaring stimulus of a bare slate suddenly confronting the pair may well cause aggression between them, each one seeing the complete lack of eggs as the other one having eaten them. Dither fish may come in handy here in redirecting any aggression towards them (as they would then be blamed for the missing eggs), but they're really completely unnecessary if common sense in lighting is followed. I know of very few breeders who use dither fish with Angels, even if they have them as a diversion with other more aggressive Cichlids. Ray > > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Jasmine" <adonaikam@> wrote: > > > > Hi Ray, thank you for this information – we went and had another look at our tank and though a bit hard to identify every angel (4 are still too young) it would appear that we 'may' have 5 females and two males. > > > > I went looking for your recent post on sexing angels that you mentioned, I couldn't find it. Could you re-post or send to me direct please. Thanking you in advance, I really appreciate it. > > Jasmine > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Raymond Wetzel" <sevenspringss@> wrote: > > > > > > Hi Jasmine, The other Angelfish that you posted yesterday, that you feel is a female is actually the male. This Angelfish that you just posted today, in the right forefront (with the male in the left background) in both recent photos, is the female. You have them reversed in you diagnosis of their sex. If anyone told you about the dorsal fin's ability as being contractable in Angelfish as a trait in determining male Angels, they are completely wrong. This ability to contract or widen the Dorsal fin is present in many Angels, to varying degrees. The main reason why your other Angelfish (the one you believe to be a female) is not seen to show this trait is because it's Dorsal fin is bent. > > > > > > As for the position of the anus in Angels, while the pores for the breeding tubes of fish are located to the rear of the anus, the male's anus is located farther back than the female's -- somewhat closer to his breeding tube. If you saw one of these two Angelfish excreting towards the back of the Angelfish's body, this is just one more reason why it would be a male. > > > > > > In Cichlids, Angelfish included, if you were to net and remove each fish from the tank and invert it to observe the position and appearance of their sexual organs in relation to their anus (this procedure is called "venting"), you would find a figure-8 configuration of these two openings in the male, showing you the close proximity of his gential pore to his anal pore, as the borders of both of these pores join. In the female, you would see two distinctly separate pore openings, with the anal pore located a short distance away (slightly forward) from her gential opening, creating a gap of plain body tissue (skin) between them -- this area would appear as two separate "O's" as "O O" (rather than as "OO" in the male). So by this, you should be able to see that it's the male that has been excreting more towards the rear of his body. "Venting" can best be seen in larger Cichlids, such as Oscars, but is observable in all Cichlids, displaying their sexual differences. > > > > > > If you can see the male's breeding tube facing forward, and the female's breeding tube facing backward, you're GOOD! Granted, there is a slight slant to these tubes when extended, but so slight in Angelfish that it's barely perceptable. For all intents and purposes, when these fish are breeding, both of their tubes appear to extend straight down. The female's ovipositor is thicker and blunt on the end, whereas the male's breeding tube is conical in shape, coming to a point. > > > > > > As for the "exiled" Angelfish, as it's position in the photo does not lend to a good view in determining its sex, I really can't tell if it's a male or female, but the fact that it will contract or expand its Dorsal fin does not preclude its being a female. > > > > > > The much mellower behavior of the pair towards the "exiled" (yellow, silver-striped) Angel at night when the lighting is more subdued is not strange at all -- and can be expected -- just as much as when the lights are on during the day, that the pair harasses this lone Angelfish. For this same reason, while Angels (and Angelfish pairs) will all behave somewhat differently within the confines of the extablished behavior of this species, it's always best to breed these fish in more subdued light -- unless they are being housed in a much larger than ordinary tank. The sense of sight in fishes is one of the prime (if not, THE prime) source of these animals' environmental stimuli input. The greater the light intensity, the greater is the "glaring" of their view of their surroundings including that of their conspecifics as a stimulus to their brain and what (and how) they perceive their conspecifics; this includes the stimuli they receive as how they perceive their mates as well. > > > > > > If the image they are receiving of an intruder conspecific, such as this lone Angelfish, is especially glaring from brighter lighting, the stimuli of the presence of this fish in their (the pair's) vicinity is increasingly strong -- to the point the it can be interpreted as challenging. Likewise, for a pair which may be ordinarily high-strung towards each other in behavior, compared to the norm of Angelfish behavior. With such pairs, it's especially important not to keep bright lights on them. Such intense visual stimuli as a "glaring" image of their mate can be interpreted as challenging. More subdued lighting always defuses such a situation, regardless of any Angelfish pair's individual behavior. Ray > > > > > > P.S.: Please reread my recent post on sexing Angelfish. You should be able to see the obvious traits I've pointed out in both sexes as relates to your pair. > > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 41259	From: Raymond Wetzel	Date: 6/23/2009
Subject: Re: Angels

Back again Jasmine, Looks like I was writing my last reply to you as you were send these last 4 pics and this message. I just now approved your latest pics, then looked them over. Yep, the "exiled" Silver Angel IS a female, as I first thought. BTW, did you happen to add this fish after you already had the pair (Marble & Koi)? I had a look at the area you circled on this fish, and if it were just a marking as that triangle-shaped spots appears to be on the one side, I'd say that, that's ALL it is, since today's mixed traits can be expected to show an odd spot here and there at times. But if it's protruding out the other side, it would seem to be some sort of a growth. My older monitor does not show the protrusion well enough for me to see it well. Couldn't tell you what it is, and it would be premature at this stage for me to say it's some kind of internal parasite, but it is odd. Unless someone else can diagnose it, I wouldn't tell you to try to treat it -- it's just good that it's not bothering the fish. You might keep an eye on it, but still, without knowing the cause there's little you could do for it if it protrudes more -- unless it manifests itself as a pimple which you could then use a needle for, along with a topical antibiotic. Ray --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Jasmine" <adonaikam@...> wrote: > > Hi Ray > > I've managed to get two shots of the 'exiled' angel (right profile and left profile). > > It certainly doesn't have the same 'hump' on its head as the male you pointed out. I always thought the hump may have been part of the type of angel it was - silly me. > > Several weeks ago we happen to notice that this same angel has a black pimple like mark - see photo titled 'Exiled angel_03 23.06.09'. This black mark looks like it is protruding out of the other side of the fish - see 'Exiled angel_02 23.06.09'. The mark doesn't seem to be causing any problems but I'm sure it has grown slightly since we first noticed it about 2 months ago. It really reminds me of a black head pimple. > > I can't get a good shot of that area on the angel (as it hides most of the time). When we get our other tank set up, the eco system all ready and the paired off angels transferred into that tank - I might be able to get a better shot then. > > Thanks again for you help and advice. > Jasmine >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 41260	From: Raymond Wetzel	Date: 6/23/2009
Subject: Re: ANGELFISH, Once again

Nice looking Angelfish you have, in that dark one, even though I couldn't call it a Black Angelfish. I'd have to call it a Black Lace with obvious Dark Marble mixed in. Still attractive though. Yes, unfortunately most of the solid black Angelfish have disappeared from the hobby. Even the "better" ones today are not pitch black and certainly not the velvety-black of years ago. Today's "Black" Angelfish show the dark black barring of the original wild type. When Joe's question on this was asked a while back, I thought I had replied I was breeding them, but then maybe I had posted something on that on another Forum. No longer seeing this solid velvet black Angel on the market, I was concerned enough to want to do something about it. Over the past years, I've been selectively line breeding Chocolate Angelfish to create full coverage of the pattern on the fish. At the same time, I've also been selectively line breeding double-dose (dark) Marbles, effectively getting to the point of having near-complete solid black in them. Then, more recently, I've been crossing these two lines and selectively breeding the result, which has given me the black coverage I've been looking for. A completely different way of obtaining the results, but there can be no solid black barring of the wild genes showing through. Ray --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Jasmine" <adonaikam@...> wrote: > > I thought I had a really nice black angel - slightly different dorsal fin to all the rest of my angels but, when I tried taking photos of it tonight, the camera showed me 'tourer shell' colours reflecting off the angel. > > I haven't seen any pitch black ones except in books. > > Good luck in finding one. > Jasmine > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "jett07002" <jett07002@> wrote: > > > > Ray, \\Steve//, Lenny and anyone else interested in Angelfish. > > > > I asked once a long time ago, and now I am asking again. Have any of you guys run across any real BLACK angels like we used to have back in the 80s early 90s? > > > > Since I have asked back then, and all (Ray, \\Steve//, and Lenny) have graciously answered in the negative, I am still searching for a comeback on the black angel as they were back then. > > > > I have run across some angels where the black color has "really been improved" according to the folks trying to sell them. Maybe my eyes are starting to fail me, but they do not look the same to me. > > > > joe t > > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 41261	From: Raymond Wetzel	Date: 6/23/2009
Subject: Re: Sexing Angelfish, was: Pleco verse Bristlenose

I figured as much on the dupes. No problem, that's all part of why we first approve them before they're filed in Photos. I thought I might change the caption on your male Angel to state just that (instead of your believing it's a female. In this way, anyone looking at that pic in the future won't be mislead. Yes, always best to have the pair in a tank of their own. Before doing so, you need to decide if you're going to pull the eggs out and raise them by themselves (which would require another tank) or whether you want to try to have the pair raise them (which would require a larger tank to accomodate all the fish). Please know that, if you decide on having the parents raise them (if they will), you will still need to move the juveniles to a large tank of their own, at about 4 weeks of age, and well before selling size. Otherwise, a minimum tank size for just the pair would be a 20 gallon high, although they'd be more comfortable in a 29. To leave the juveniles with the parents after 4 weeks is to invite the inevitable mutilation of the pair's fins and skin by the juvies as they attempt to eat the slime secretion that the parents produce, in addition to what you'd already be feeding them -- similar to how Discus feed (this is called "contacting" in Cichlids) -- only, Angelfish parents cannot produce nearly as much body mucous. Instead, their fins get descimated, and if allowed to continue, their skin doesn't fair much better. Ray --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Jasmine" <adonaikam@...> wrote: > > Hi Ray, > > With regards to the duplicate photos being posted - that was me, I thought they may not have gotten through until I realised that they have to be approved first. Sorry about that and thank you for vetting them. > > Feel free to edit the caption on the photos to make them more understandable. I certainly would welcome the help here. > > I am hoping that they don't spawn soon. I would prefer that they do that after we transfer them into their own tank. I just can't do that at the moment. > > thank you for the reference to your post. I was using the searching function at the top of the message page, never though of the archives. > > Thank you again. You have been really helpful. > Jasmine > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Raymond Wetzel" <sevenspringss@> wrote: > > > > Hi Jasmine, Glad the info has been of some help. I had another look at your silver w/black stripes Angelfish (the "exiled" one) and even though it's on an oblique angle and not perpendicular to the lens, I have to say it's a female with as much as I can determine from this shot. When I first approved this batch of your pics (I approved both batches) to be posted, I really didn't look too closely at this one -- I was looking more at the male Marble Angel which you thought was a female. > > > > If you'd like, unless you're still unsure of my diagnosis, I could edit that caption for you to any other wording you'd like. You had a number of duplicate pics, with the same captions as those that were posted although the words were just changed around a bit. As they were just duplicates, I deleted them. Perhaps you thought some of them never even made it up to the site to get approved, so you sent the same ones again(?); if so that would explain them being dupicated when they all reached me, I've seen this a number of times in the past. BTW, that young Angel has tendencies of being a male. > > > > My earlier post on sexing Angelfish can be easily found in the archives (messages found right on the Group Home Page after hitting "Messages" in the menu). It's message #41015, entitled -- Distinguishing Characteristics in Sexing Angelfish -- posted on 6/19/09 @ 10:25 AM. This should be able to help you out further and fill in information additional to what I've given you. > > > > While I think of it, and with the Subject of "Lighting" in mind from a recent reply to you, please keep in mind that lighting should always be reduced/subdued whenever removing Angels' eggs from the pair. Sections of slate are generally used for the purpose of offering the pairs a spawning site, and this should be replaced immediately with another section of slate at the time the slate with eggs is removed. In subdued lighting, the pair don't seem to notice that the eggs are missing and only get used to the idea gradually which causes no upset in the pair; they will even continue to fan this new bare slate until that part of their breeding cycle wears off, as the lack of visual stimuli of eggs gets reinforced slowly. If strong lighting were to remain, the visually glaring stimulus of a bare slate suddenly confronting the pair may well cause aggression between them, each one seeing the complete lack of eggs as the other one having eaten them. Dither fish may come in handy here in redirecting any aggression towards them (as they would then be blamed for the missing eggs), but they're really completely unnecessary if common sense in lighting is followed. I know of very few breeders who use dither fish with Angels, even if they have them as a diversion with other more aggressive Cichlids. Ray > > > > > > > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Jasmine" <adonaikam@> wrote: > > > > > > Hi Ray, thank you for this information – we went and had another look at our tank and though a bit hard to identify every angel (4 are still too young) it would appear that we 'may' have 5 females and two males. > > > > > > I went looking for your recent post on sexing angels that you mentioned, I couldn't find it. Could you re-post or send to me direct please. Thanking you in advance, I really appreciate it. > > > Jasmine > > > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Raymond Wetzel" <sevenspringss@> wrote: > > > > > > > > Hi Jasmine, The other Angelfish that you posted yesterday, that you feel is a female is actually the male. This Angelfish that you just posted today, in the right forefront (with the male in the left background) in both recent photos, is the female. You have them reversed in you diagnosis of their sex. If anyone told you about the dorsal fin's ability as being contractable in Angelfish as a trait in determining male Angels, they are completely wrong. This ability to contract or widen the Dorsal fin is present in many Angels, to varying degrees. The main reason why your other Angelfish (the one you believe to be a female) is not seen to show this trait is because it's Dorsal fin is bent. > > > > > > > > As for the position of the anus in Angels, while the pores for the breeding tubes of fish are located to the rear of the anus, the male's anus is located farther back than the female's -- somewhat closer to his breeding tube. If you saw one of these two Angelfish excreting towards the back of the Angelfish's body, this is just one more reason why it would be a male. > > > > > > > > In Cichlids, Angelfish included, if you were to net and remove each fish from the tank and invert it to observe the position and appearance of their sexual organs in relation to their anus (this procedure is called "venting"), you would find a figure-8 configuration of these two openings in the male, showing you the close proximity of his gential pore to his anal pore, as the borders of both of these pores join. In the female, you would see two distinctly separate pore openings, with the anal pore located a short distance away (slightly forward) from her gential opening, creating a gap of plain body tissue (skin) between them -- this area would appear as two separate "O's" as "O O" (rather than as "OO" in the male). So by this, you should be able to see that it's the male that has been excreting more towards the rear of his body. "Venting" can best be seen in larger Cichlids, such as Oscars, but is observable in all Cichlids, displaying their sexual differences. > > > > > > > > If you can see the male's breeding tube facing forward, and the female's breeding tube facing backward, you're GOOD! Granted, there is a slight slant to these tubes when extended, but so slight in Angelfish that it's barely perceptable. For all intents and purposes, when these fish are breeding, both of their tubes appear to extend straight down. The female's ovipositor is thicker and blunt on the end, whereas the male's breeding tube is conical in shape, coming to a point. > > > > > > > > As for the "exiled" Angelfish, as it's position in the photo does not lend to a good view in determining its sex, I really can't tell if it's a male or female, but the fact that it will contract or expand its Dorsal fin does not preclude its being a female. > > > > > > > > The much mellower behavior of the pair towards the "exiled" (yellow, silver-striped) Angel at night when the lighting is more subdued is not strange at all -- and can be expected -- just as much as when the lights are on during the day, that the pair harasses this lone Angelfish. For this same reason, while Angels (and Angelfish pairs) will all behave somewhat differently within the confines of the extablished behavior of this species, it's always best to breed these fish in more subdued light -- unless they are being housed in a much larger than ordinary tank. The sense of sight in fishes is one of the prime (if not, THE prime) source of these animals' environmental stimuli input. The greater the light intensity, the greater is the "glaring" of their view of their surroundings including that of their conspecifics as a stimulus to their brain and what (and how) they perceive their conspecifics; this includes the stimuli they receive as how they perceive their mates as well. > > > > > > > > If the image they are receiving of an intruder conspecific, such as this lone Angelfish, is especially glaring from brighter lighting, the stimuli of the presence of this fish in their (the pair's) vicinity is increasingly strong -- to the point the it can be interpreted as challenging. Likewise, for a pair which may be ordinarily high-strung towards each other in behavior, compared to the norm of Angelfish behavior. With such pairs, it's especially important not to keep bright lights on them. Such intense visual stimuli as a "glaring" image of their mate can be interpreted as challenging. More subdued lighting always defuses such a situation, regardless of any Angelfish pair's individual behavior. Ray > > > > > > > > P.S.: Please reread my recent post on sexing Angelfish. You should be able to see the obvious traits I've pointed out in both sexes as relates to your pair. > > > > > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 41262	From: Raymond Wetzel	Date: 6/23/2009
Subject: Re: Advice

Lenny, Okay -- yes, I AM quite proud of you to see you've checked if someone else already answered. WAY TO GO! And thanks for adding to what I may have left out. We'll make a Yankee out of you yet! -- I have no idea what one thing has to do with the other, but I know something like that would get a Rebel Yell out of you (ROTFL) HAHAHA. Just thought I'd stir you up a bit to keep you going for the rest of the day. All in a day's fun, Ray --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@...> wrote: > > Ray, > > You'll be proud to know I looked to see if anyone else answered. LOL > > Steve, > > I want to add to Ray's comments, YES, you should remove the Purigen and also > remove any other "chemical filtration" (carbon, etc.) from your filter > systems when treating with any medications (except for when using salt as a > medication). Salt is not absorbed by chemical filtration... at least not to > any degree where it would affect the treatment level. > > Also see this long article > http://www.americanaquariumproducts.com/Columnaris.html about Section 1) > Flexibacter Columnaris (Bacteria) compared to Section 2) Saprolegnia > (Fungus) with LOTS of pictures of both, as both present themselves looking > like a cottony fungus. > > Let us know which one looks most like what your fish has. > > The good news, according to the article, is that Furan Two is also ONE part > of a treatment for Columnaris, along with an antibiotic such as Kanamycin so > you can at least start off with the Furan Two right away and then let us > know how things are going before reconsidering additional treatment. > > Ray, > > On a side note, the website, AmericanAquariumProducts.com and it's owner, > Carl Strohmeyer is a VERY REPUTABLE online resource. I believe it was > \\Steve// who also knows this guy or knows of him and vouched for him in the > past but an overview of his experience is listed about 1/4th the way down > this page, http://www.americanaquariumproducts.com/AboutMe.html. One day > when you have some time, I'd like you to read through some of his general > and disease articles and let me know if you see any major issues. I think > you'll be pleased with their depth. I've learned a TON from reading through > his website since his articles fill in a lot of the blanks that might exist > after reading stuff in books, magazines and other websites. He may even be > more verbose than either you or I... if that's possible. LOL > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right > side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) > > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On > Behalf Of Raymond Wetzel > Sent: Monday, June 22, 2009 5:32 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Advice > > Sounds like a Fungus, wouldn't be Ich as that appears as tiny white spots as > though sprinkled with salt. You should first try to find out the root cause > of this disease, which may often occur as a result of poor water conditions. > An injury will also bring this on, but again, poor water will exacerbate the > condition. Check your water parameters for excess nitrogenous wastes > (ammonia, nitrite, nitrate). Always best to change out at least 25% of the > water before treatment -- more, as needed, if your parameters are elevated > (you'll need to correct any source of waste excesses). Furan II is one of > the best medications for treatment against Fungus. Ray > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Steve Biondi" <parkpac@> wrote: > > > > Hi All, > > > > My green Severum has a white fuzzy patch on the left side near the > > gills. I am not sure if this is ich. If it is, what is the best way to > treat it? > > Tank is a 55 with a Rena3 using Purigen as the filter element. Do I > > need to remove the purigen when I add the ich cure? > > > > Thanks, Steve >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 41263	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 6/23/2009
Subject: Re: How many mosquito larvae do I feed one betta?

As much as will fit in his eye ;) Since his stomach is as big as his eye it doesn't take much to feed a betta. I have to distract my betta from eating the food that I leave for the dwarf frog in my 10 gallon, LOL. Amber Dora Smith wrote: > > > My betta loves mosquito larvae, and I understand they are highly > nutritious; > but how many do I feed him? > > Yours, > Dora Smith > Austin, TX > tiggernut24@... <mailto:tiggernut24%40yahoo.com> > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 41264	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 6/23/2009
Subject: Re: ANGELFISH, Once again

My LFS got a nice black one last year sometime, but it didn't survive the shipment, I remember seeing it just after they put it in the tank. During shipment the bag had somehow burst open and when the Angel's arrived they were just laying in the bottom of the soggy box, I'm not surprised that they didn't survive, sad though :( Amber Jasmine wrote: > > > I thought I had a really nice black angel - slightly different dorsal > fin to all the rest of my angels but, when I tried taking photos of it > tonight, the camera showed me 'tourer shell' colours reflecting off > the angel. > > I haven't seen any pitch black ones except in books. > > Good luck in finding one. > Jasmine > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>, "jett07002" <jett07002@...> wrote: > > > > Ray, \\Steve//, Lenny and anyone else interested in Angelfish. > > > > I asked once a long time ago, and now I am asking again. Have any of > you guys run across any real BLACK angels like we used to have back in > the 80s early 90s? > > > > Since I have asked back then, and all (Ray, \\Steve//, and Lenny) > have graciously answered in the negative, I am still searching for a > comeback on the black angel as they were back then. > > > > I have run across some angels where the black color has "really been > improved" according to the folks trying to sell them. Maybe my eyes > are starting to fail me, but they do not look the same to me. > > > > joe t > > > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 41265	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 6/23/2009
Subject: Re: Sexing Angelfish, was: Pleco verse Bristlenose

I can speak from experience that the Angel's do not live on any schedule humans keep, LOL. Mine usually spawn at least once a month, sometimes every couple of weeks if they're really in the mood. The babies never survive as once they hatch they are quickly devoured by the parents, but I think most of that reason is because they are in a mixed community tank and the babies all look like food to the other fish, so the parent's eat them first. I wouldn't worry too much if they spawn before you go to move them, but if they do be prepared for them to get even more aggressive to the other fish, they will probably keep all the fish at a distance while they are taking care of the eggs. Mine keep a whole half of the 125 gallon tank to themselves, greedy buggers ;) LOL. If they still have eggs when you have their tank ready for them you can either wait until they hatch or the Angel's eat them all (they don't always get it right from the first time, hehe). Mine ate their first few batches of eggs before they hatched, I only saw the last batch hatch and I think that was something like their 4th or 5th try. It's quite fun to watch them take care of the eggs though, I can't wait to see how well they do at raising their young when they're alone. Oh speaking of Angel's... the stand is built for their new tank, but unfortunately the hubby messed up a measurement and it needs slight adjustment before I can use it (go figure, hehe). It also needs to be painted, it's just bare steel for now, and it will rust if it doesn't get painted. Amber Jasmine wrote: > > > Hi Ray, > > With regards to the duplicate photos being posted - that was me, I > thought they may not have gotten through until I realised that they > have to be approved first. Sorry about that and thank you for vetting > them. > > Feel free to edit the caption on the photos to make them more > understandable. I certainly would welcome the help here. > > I am hoping that they don't spawn soon. I would prefer that they do > that after we transfer them into their own tank. I just can't do that > at the moment. > > thank you for the reference to your post. I was using the searching > function at the top of the message page, never though of the archives. > > Thank you again. You have been really helpful. > Jasmine > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>, "Raymond Wetzel" > <sevenspringss@...> wrote: > > > > Hi Jasmine, Glad the info has been of some help. I had another look > at your silver w/black stripes Angelfish (the "exiled" one) and even > though it's on an oblique angle and not perpendicular to the lens, I > have to say it's a female with as much as I can determine from this > shot. When I first approved this batch of your pics (I approved both > batches) to be posted, I really didn't look too closely at this one -- > I was looking more at the male Marble Angel which you thought was a > female. > > > > If you'd like, unless you're still unsure of my diagnosis, I could > edit that caption for you to any other wording you'd like. You had a > number of duplicate pics, with the same captions as those that were > posted although the words were just changed around a bit. As they were > just duplicates, I deleted them. Perhaps you thought some of them > never even made it up to the site to get approved, so you sent the > same ones again(?); if so that would explain them being dupicated when > they all reached me, I've seen this a number of times in the past. > BTW, that young Angel has tendencies of being a male. > > > > My earlier post on sexing Angelfish can be easily found in the > archives (messages found right on the Group Home Page after hitting > "Messages" in the menu). It's message #41015, entitled -- > Distinguishing Characteristics in Sexing Angelfish -- posted on > 6/19/09 @ 10:25 AM. This should be able to help you out further and > fill in information additional to what I've given you. > > > > While I think of it, and with the Subject of "Lighting" in mind from > a recent reply to you, please keep in mind that lighting should always > be reduced/subdued whenever removing Angels' eggs from the pair. > Sections of slate are generally used for the purpose of offering the > pairs a spawning site, and this should be replaced immediately with > another section of slate at the time the slate with eggs is removed. > In subdued lighting, the pair don't seem to notice that the eggs are > missing and only get used to the idea gradually which causes no upset > in the pair; they will even continue to fan this new bare slate until > that part of their breeding cycle wears off, as the lack of visual > stimuli of eggs gets reinforced slowly. If strong lighting were to > remain, the visually glaring stimulus of a bare slate suddenly > confronting the pair may well cause aggression between them, each one > seeing the complete lack of eggs as the other one having eaten them. > Dither fish may come in handy here in redirecting any aggression > towards them (as they would then be blamed for the missing eggs), but > they're really completely unnecessary if common sense in lighting is > followed. I know of very few breeders who use dither fish with Angels, > even if they have them as a diversion with other more aggressive > Cichlids. Ray > > > > > > > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>, "Jasmine" <adonaikam@> wrote: > > > > > > Hi Ray, thank you for this information – we went and had another > look at our tank and though a bit hard to identify every angel (4 are > still too young) it would appear that we 'may' have 5 females and two > males. > > > > > > I went looking for your recent post on sexing angels that you > mentioned, I couldn't find it. Could you re-post or send to me direct > please. Thanking you in advance, I really appreciate it. > > > Jasmine > > > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>, "Raymond Wetzel" > <sevenspringss@> wrote: > > > > > > > > Hi Jasmine, The other Angelfish that you posted yesterday, that > you feel is a female is actually the male. This Angelfish that you > just posted today, in the right forefront (with the male in the left > background) in both recent photos, is the female. You have them > reversed in you diagnosis of their sex. If anyone told you about the > dorsal fin's ability as being contractable in Angelfish as a trait in > determining male Angels, they are completely wrong. This ability to > contract or widen the Dorsal fin is present in many Angels, to varying > degrees. The main reason why your other Angelfish (the one you believe > to be a female) is not seen to show this trait is because it's Dorsal > fin is bent. > > > > > > > > As for the position of the anus in Angels, while the pores for > the breeding tubes of fish are located to the rear of the anus, the > male's anus is located farther back than the female's -- somewhat > closer to his breeding tube. If you saw one of these two Angelfish > excreting towards the back of the Angelfish's body, this is just one > more reason why it would be a male. > > > > > > > > In Cichlids, Angelfish included, if you were to net and remove > each fish from the tank and invert it to observe the position and > appearance of their sexual organs in relation to their anus (this > procedure is called "venting"), you would find a figure-8 > configuration of these two openings in the male, showing you the close > proximity of his gential pore to his anal pore, as the borders of both > of these pores join. In the female, you would see two distinctly > separate pore openings, with the anal pore located a short distance > away (slightly forward) from her gential opening, creating a gap of > plain body tissue (skin) between them -- this area would appear as two > separate "O's" as "O O" (rather than as "OO" in the male). So by this, > you should be able to see that it's the male that has been excreting > more towards the rear of his body. "Venting" can best be seen in > larger Cichlids, such as Oscars, but is observable in all Cichlids, > displaying their sexual differences. > > > > > > > > If you can see the male's breeding tube facing forward, and the > female's breeding tube facing backward, you're GOOD! Granted, there is > a slight slant to these tubes when extended, but so slight in > Angelfish that it's barely perceptable. For all intents and purposes, > when these fish are breeding, both of their tubes appear to extend > straight down. The female's ovipositor is thicker and blunt on the > end, whereas the male's breeding tube is conical in shape, coming to a > point. > > > > > > > > As for the "exiled" Angelfish, as it's position in the photo > does not lend to a good view in determining its sex, I really can't > tell if it's a male or female, but the fact that it will contract or > expand its Dorsal fin does not preclude its being a female. > > > > > > > > The much mellower behavior of the pair towards the "exiled" > (yellow, silver-striped) Angel at night when the lighting is more > subdued is not strange at all -- and can be expected -- just as much > as when the lights are on during the day, that the pair harasses this > lone Angelfish. For this same reason, while Angels (and Angelfish > pairs) will all behave somewhat differently within the confines of the > extablished behavior of this species, it's always best to breed these > fish in more subdued light -- unless they are being housed in a much > larger than ordinary tank. The sense of sight in fishes is one of the > prime (if not, THE prime) source of these animals' environmental > stimuli input. The greater the light intensity, the greater is the > "glaring" of their view of their surroundings including that of their > conspecifics as a stimulus to their brain and what (and how) they > perceive their conspecifics; this includes the stimuli they receive as > how they perceive their mates as well. > > > > > > > > If the image they are receiving of an intruder conspecific, such > as this lone Angelfish, is especially glaring from brighter lighting, > the stimuli of the presence of this fish in their (the pair's) > vicinity is increasingly strong -- to the point the it can be > interpreted as challenging. Likewise, for a pair which may be > ordinarily high-strung towards each other in behavior, compared to the > norm of Angelfish behavior. With such pairs, it's especially important > not to keep bright lights on them. Such intense visual stimuli as a > "glaring" image of their mate can be interpreted as challenging. More > subdued lighting always defuses such a situation, regardless of any > Angelfish pair's individual behavior. Ray > > > > > > > > P.S.: Please reread my recent post on sexing Angelfish. You > should be able to see the obvious traits I've pointed out in both > sexes as relates to your pair. > > > > > > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 41266	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 6/23/2009
Subject: Re: Tap water Baseline testing, first test.

Will a few dead fruit flies hurt my baseline testing? LOL Good fly traps though ;) I bet the fish agree when the fruit flies land in the fish tanks, LOL. Amber Amber Berglund wrote: > > > Unfortunately I cannot have stuff shipped site to store from > walmart.com, and I asked the hubby if they can order larger sized > bottles than the tiny itty bitty ones they have now (tetra aquasafe). I > was told no, because they don't sell enough of the normal aquasafe to > warrant ordering a bigger bottle of it. Does that treat heavy metals? > I also cannot order from drsfostersmith.com with my fed ex account > number, they tell me "it's not possible" blah blah blah, little do they > know I could email them a label for the stupid box but yet they argue > with me in circles. They just don't want to do it basically. I could > probably make a phone call and ask for a manager and eventually get my > way if I was that pushy of a person, but I'm not ;) Maybe I can get the > local "mom and pop" hardware and feed store to order me some bigger > bottles of something cheep ;) I will have to ask her what she normally > orders, I'm pretty sure I saw the tetra aquasafe there as well as walmart. > > Amber > > Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > > > > > > Almost ALL dechlor products treat for heavy metals. What is the > > brand/product that is carried by your local Wal-Mart? Never mind, I see > > they also sell the Jungle Start Right Water Conditioner and after > > looking at > > DFS.com, the ingredients do not include the EDTA tetrasodium salts > > used for > > the treatment of heavy metals by most dechlor products. > > > > The Walmart.com site shows that they sell the Tetra AquaSafe dechlor, > > which > > doesn't have the added Aloe Vera. The 16 oz. bottle of Tetra AquaSafe is > > only $7.88. > > http://www.walmart.com/catalog/product.do?product_id=3635396 > <http://www.walmart.com/catalog/product.do?product_id=3635396> > > <http://www.walmart.com/catalog/product.do?product_id=3635396 > <http://www.walmart.com/catalog/product.do?product_id=3635396>> > > Walmart.com also sells several API products, but NOT their Tap Water > > Conditioner, which would be an even better price per gallon than the > Tetra > > AquaSafe. They also have the 16 oz. of Stress Coat for 7.88. > > Here's a list of the other meds and water treatment products on > > Walmart.com. > > > http://www.walmart.com/catalog/catalog.gsp?cat=202105&fromPageCatId=202100&c > <http://www.walmart.com/catalog/catalog.gsp?cat=202105&fromPageCatId=202100&c> > > > > <http://www.walmart.com/catalog/catalog.gsp?cat=202105&fromPageCatId=202100&c > <http://www.walmart.com/catalog/catalog.gsp?cat=202105&fromPageCatId=202100&c>> > > atNavId=202074 > > > > Considering the number of tanks that you have, you should order the > gallon > > size of API's Tap Water Conditioner from DrsFosterSmith.com, use your > > account and then you won't have to use junk in your tanks for a year or > > more. 16 oz. treats 9,600 gallons of water so a gallon would treat > > close to > > 80,000 gallons of water. I think that would get you through a year > or so. > > ;-) But to be sure, if you do weekly 25% PWC's on all of your tanks, > > and my > > last count had you up to around 250 gallons worth of tanks, that > would be > > 62.5 gallons a week, times 52 weeks = ONLY 3,250 gallons a year so > > actually, > > a 16 oz. bottle of API's Tap Water Dechlor would last you about 4 years. > > It's only $5.69 for 16 oz. but if you want the gallon size, then that > > would > > cost you $31.99 (only $4.00 per 16 oz.) but you would be good for > about 30 > > years. ;-) > > > http://www.drsfostersmith.com/product/prod_display.cfm?c=3578+3974+4038&pcat > <http://www.drsfostersmith.com/product/prod_display.cfm?c=3578+3974+4038&pcat> > > > > <http://www.drsfostersmith.com/product/prod_display.cfm?c=3578+3974+4038&pcat > <http://www.drsfostersmith.com/product/prod_display.cfm?c=3578+3974+4038&pcat>> > > id=4038 > > > > While API is generally a good company, unfortunately, they still have to > > compete with all of the other crap that is sold by other BIG fish > product > > manufacturers, which is why they have their version known as Stress > Coat, > > which besides being a dechlor, also has Aloe Vera and who knows what > > else in > > it. The MSDS > > http://cms.marsfishcare.com/files/msds/stress_coat_ng_030907.pdf, > <http://cms.marsfishcare.com/files/msds/stress_coat_ng_030907.pdf,> > > <http://cms.marsfishcare.com/files/msds/stress_coat_ng_030907.pdf, > <http://cms.marsfishcare.com/files/msds/stress_coat_ng_030907.pdf,>> in > > Section > > 3., shows "Aloes, extract" and then "non hazardous ingredients" and > > "proprietary" ingredients making up 20% of the product and the rest > > (80%) is > > water. I'm not sure why they did not list the Sodium Thiosulphate > and EDTA > > which are the products they use in the API Tap Water Conditioner (the > > regular dechlor from API). I wonder if Stress Coat uses something > > different > > and "proprietary" for Stress Coat, much like SeaChem's Prime does > not list > > their "proprietary" ingredients on the MSDS for Prime. > > > > API also has their version of a bottled bacteria, Stress Zyme, which > also > > does not work as advertised... at least not like Dr. Tim's One And Only, > > which does work. > > > > API also sells their patented (just kidding) version of Aquarium > Salt, to > > compete with the likes of Doc. Johnson and others. Of course, the > MSDS for > > API's Aquarium Salt lists the ingredients as 100% Sodium Chloride... > > imagine > > that, their "Aquarium Salt" and all the other aquarium salts sold for > > several dollars a pint are just plain and simple, good ol' salt. The > stuff > > you can get a LOT cheaper at your local grocery store. > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>> > > (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right > > side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, > Month) > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On > > Behalf Of Amber Berglund > > Sent: Monday, June 22, 2009 10:03 PM > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Tap water Baseline testing, first test. > > > > I use stress coat, and honestly I wish my LFS didn't only order it. I go > > through so much of it I can't afford to buy it off the internet, the > > shipping would be outrageous for a big bottle of anything. > > I've asked repeatedly if they will get a different kind of water > > conditioner > > but the owner is a jerk and refuses to order anything else *sigh*. The > > downfall to living on an island I suppose. > > I have heavy metals in my tap water so regardless I need something that > > takes care of heavy metals, so I can't get the one that walmart carries > > here, it only takes care of chlorine. > > > > Amber > > > > Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > > > > > > > > > That's fine. If I recall, when you posted info from your water > utility a > > > while back, they still use Chlorine only up there... right? That > > would be > > > why you do not see the residual ammonia that results from using a > > dechlor > > > product, with the plurality of utilities that now use Chloramine. > > > > > > Which brand dechlor did you use? > > > > > > I'm not sure if Prime, or one of the other dechlors that also > > purportedly > > > treat ammonia, would actually change the test results, or not. Maybe > > > someone who uses Prime can test their Chloramine treated tap water, > > > then add > > > Prime and then test again to see if ammonia shows up. > > > > > > With your low pH, ammonia isn't really an issue for you anyhow. > > > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>>> > > > (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the > right > > > side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, > > Month) > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On > > > Behalf Of Amber Berglund > > > Sent: Monday, June 22, 2009 9:42 PM > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Tap water Baseline testing, first test. > > > > > > All of the tests were after the dechlor product, so I don't see any > > > ammonia > > > after using the product... is that good or bad? LOL. > > > > > > Amber > > > > > > Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > OK... Keep this thread intact by posting your 24 hour and 48 > hour test > > > > results in this same thread. > > > > > > > > Yes, if your KH test changed colors after only one drop, it means, > > > at this > > > > stage in the testing process, you have no more than 1 dH (or > less than > > > > 18ppm > > > > of Carbonate Hardness). > > > > > > > > Don't forget to add your dechlor and test the ammonia again to let > > > us know > > > > how much free ammonia you get when the chloramine bond is broken... > > > > usually > > > > around 0.5ppm. > > > > > > > > Keep the same container of water for the testing at 24 hours and 48 > > > hours. > > > > > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>> > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>>> > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>> > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>>>> > > > > (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the > > right > > > > side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, > > > Month) > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On > > > > Behalf Of Amber Berglund > > > > Sent: Monday, June 22, 2009 9:17 PM > > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > Subject: [AquaticLife] Tap water Baseline testing, first test. > > > > > > > > First baseline testing for my tap water: > > > > > > > > pH: 6.5 or 6.6 hard to tell > > > > > > > > KH: I'm not sure how to read this one, it only takes 1 drop for the > > > > water to > > > > turn yellow, does that mean I'm somewhere near 0 ppm? The chart > > says 0-3 > > > > drops is 0-50 ppm... > > > > > > > > GH: Approximately 100 ppm > > > > > > > > Ammonia: 0 > > > > > > > > Nitrate: 0 > > > > > > > > Nitrite: 0 > > > > > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 41267	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 6/23/2009
Subject: Re: Tap water Baseline testing, first test.

Oh... and another question will cats or dogs drinking out of the bucket affect anything? I try to keep them out of it but a bucket of water seems to fascinate all the pets in the house ;) Will the dechlor hurt them in any way? Amber Amber Berglund wrote: > > > Unfortunately I cannot have stuff shipped site to store from > walmart.com, and I asked the hubby if they can order larger sized > bottles than the tiny itty bitty ones they have now (tetra aquasafe). I > was told no, because they don't sell enough of the normal aquasafe to > warrant ordering a bigger bottle of it. Does that treat heavy metals? > I also cannot order from drsfostersmith.com with my fed ex account > number, they tell me "it's not possible" blah blah blah, little do they > know I could email them a label for the stupid box but yet they argue > with me in circles. They just don't want to do it basically. I could > probably make a phone call and ask for a manager and eventually get my > way if I was that pushy of a person, but I'm not ;) Maybe I can get the > local "mom and pop" hardware and feed store to order me some bigger > bottles of something cheep ;) I will have to ask her what she normally > orders, I'm pretty sure I saw the tetra aquasafe there as well as walmart. > > Amber > > Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > > > > > > Almost ALL dechlor products treat for heavy metals. What is the > > brand/product that is carried by your local Wal-Mart? Never mind, I see > > they also sell the Jungle Start Right Water Conditioner and after > > looking at > > DFS.com, the ingredients do not include the EDTA tetrasodium salts > > used for > > the treatment of heavy metals by most dechlor products. > > > > The Walmart.com site shows that they sell the Tetra AquaSafe dechlor, > > which > > doesn't have the added Aloe Vera. The 16 oz. bottle of Tetra AquaSafe is > > only $7.88. > > http://www.walmart.com/catalog/product.do?product_id=3635396 > <http://www.walmart.com/catalog/product.do?product_id=3635396> > > <http://www.walmart.com/catalog/product.do?product_id=3635396 > <http://www.walmart.com/catalog/product.do?product_id=3635396>> > > Walmart.com also sells several API products, but NOT their Tap Water > > Conditioner, which would be an even better price per gallon than the > Tetra > > AquaSafe. They also have the 16 oz. of Stress Coat for 7.88. > > Here's a list of the other meds and water treatment products on > > Walmart.com. > > > http://www.walmart.com/catalog/catalog.gsp?cat=202105&fromPageCatId=202100&c > <http://www.walmart.com/catalog/catalog.gsp?cat=202105&fromPageCatId=202100&c> > > > > <http://www.walmart.com/catalog/catalog.gsp?cat=202105&fromPageCatId=202100&c > <http://www.walmart.com/catalog/catalog.gsp?cat=202105&fromPageCatId=202100&c>> > > atNavId=202074 > > > > Considering the number of tanks that you have, you should order the > gallon > > size of API's Tap Water Conditioner from DrsFosterSmith.com, use your > > account and then you won't have to use junk in your tanks for a year or > > more. 16 oz. treats 9,600 gallons of water so a gallon would treat > > close to > > 80,000 gallons of water. I think that would get you through a year > or so. > > ;-) But to be sure, if you do weekly 25% PWC's on all of your tanks, > > and my > > last count had you up to around 250 gallons worth of tanks, that > would be > > 62.5 gallons a week, times 52 weeks = ONLY 3,250 gallons a year so > > actually, > > a 16 oz. bottle of API's Tap Water Dechlor would last you about 4 years. > > It's only $5.69 for 16 oz. but if you want the gallon size, then that > > would > > cost you $31.99 (only $4.00 per 16 oz.) but you would be good for > about 30 > > years. ;-) > > > http://www.drsfostersmith.com/product/prod_display.cfm?c=3578+3974+4038&pcat > <http://www.drsfostersmith.com/product/prod_display.cfm?c=3578+3974+4038&pcat> > > > > <http://www.drsfostersmith.com/product/prod_display.cfm?c=3578+3974+4038&pcat > <http://www.drsfostersmith.com/product/prod_display.cfm?c=3578+3974+4038&pcat>> > > id=4038 > > > > While API is generally a good company, unfortunately, they still have to > > compete with all of the other crap that is sold by other BIG fish > product > > manufacturers, which is why they have their version known as Stress > Coat, > > which besides being a dechlor, also has Aloe Vera and who knows what > > else in > > it. The MSDS > > http://cms.marsfishcare.com/files/msds/stress_coat_ng_030907.pdf, > <http://cms.marsfishcare.com/files/msds/stress_coat_ng_030907.pdf,> > > <http://cms.marsfishcare.com/files/msds/stress_coat_ng_030907.pdf, > <http://cms.marsfishcare.com/files/msds/stress_coat_ng_030907.pdf,>> in > > Section > > 3., shows "Aloes, extract" and then "non hazardous ingredients" and > > "proprietary" ingredients making up 20% of the product and the rest > > (80%) is > > water. I'm not sure why they did not list the Sodium Thiosulphate > and EDTA > > which are the products they use in the API Tap Water Conditioner (the > > regular dechlor from API). I wonder if Stress Coat uses something > > different > > and "proprietary" for Stress Coat, much like SeaChem's Prime does > not list > > their "proprietary" ingredients on the MSDS for Prime. > > > > API also has their version of a bottled bacteria, Stress Zyme, which > also > > does not work as advertised... at least not like Dr. Tim's One And Only, > > which does work. > > > > API also sells their patented (just kidding) version of Aquarium > Salt, to > > compete with the likes of Doc. Johnson and others. Of course, the > MSDS for > > API's Aquarium Salt lists the ingredients as 100% Sodium Chloride... > > imagine > > that, their "Aquarium Salt" and all the other aquarium salts sold for > > several dollars a pint are just plain and simple, good ol' salt. The > stuff > > you can get a LOT cheaper at your local grocery store. > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>> > > (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right > > side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, > Month) > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On > > Behalf Of Amber Berglund > > Sent: Monday, June 22, 2009 10:03 PM > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Tap water Baseline testing, first test. > > > > I use stress coat, and honestly I wish my LFS didn't only order it. I go > > through so much of it I can't afford to buy it off the internet, the > > shipping would be outrageous for a big bottle of anything. > > I've asked repeatedly if they will get a different kind of water > > conditioner > > but the owner is a jerk and refuses to order anything else *sigh*. The > > downfall to living on an island I suppose. > > I have heavy metals in my tap water so regardless I need something that > > takes care of heavy metals, so I can't get the one that walmart carries > > here, it only takes care of chlorine. > > > > Amber > > > > Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > > > > > > > > > That's fine. If I recall, when you posted info from your water > utility a > > > while back, they still use Chlorine only up there... right? That > > would be > > > why you do not see the residual ammonia that results from using a > > dechlor > > > product, with the plurality of utilities that now use Chloramine. > > > > > > Which brand dechlor did you use? > > > > > > I'm not sure if Prime, or one of the other dechlors that also > > purportedly > > > treat ammonia, would actually change the test results, or not. Maybe > > > someone who uses Prime can test their Chloramine treated tap water, > > > then add > > > Prime and then test again to see if ammonia shows up. > > > > > > With your low pH, ammonia isn't really an issue for you anyhow. > > > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>>> > > > (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the > right > > > side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, > > Month) > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On > > > Behalf Of Amber Berglund > > > Sent: Monday, June 22, 2009 9:42 PM > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Tap water Baseline testing, first test. > > > > > > All of the tests were after the dechlor product, so I don't see any > > > ammonia > > > after using the product... is that good or bad? LOL. > > > > > > Amber > > > > > > Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > OK... Keep this thread intact by posting your 24 hour and 48 > hour test > > > > results in this same thread. > > > > > > > > Yes, if your KH test changed colors after only one drop, it means, > > > at this > > > > stage in the testing process, you have no more than 1 dH (or > less than > > > > 18ppm > > > > of Carbonate Hardness). > > > > > > > > Don't forget to add your dechlor and test the ammonia again to let > > > us know > > > > how much free ammonia you get when the chloramine bond is broken... > > > > usually > > > > around 0.5ppm. > > > > > > > > Keep the same container of water for the testing at 24 hours and 48 > > > hours. > > > > > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>> > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>>> > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>> > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>>>> > > > > (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the > > right > > > > side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, > > > Month) > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On > > > > Behalf Of Amber Berglund > > > > Sent: Monday, June 22, 2009 9:17 PM > > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > Subject: [AquaticLife] Tap water Baseline testing, first test. > > > > > > > > First baseline testing for my tap water: > > > > > > > > pH: 6.5 or 6.6 hard to tell > > > > > > > > KH: I'm not sure how to read this one, it only takes 1 drop for the > > > > water to > > > > turn yellow, does that mean I'm somewhere near 0 ppm? The chart > > says 0-3 > > > > drops is 0-50 ppm... > > > > > > > > GH: Approximately 100 ppm > > > > > > > > Ammonia: 0 > > > > > > > > Nitrate: 0 > > > > > > > > Nitrite: 0 > > > > > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 41268	From: Beth F Brownell	Date: 6/23/2009
Subject: 55 and 30 gallon tanks for sale question.

What price should I list them for?I'm selling my tanks as our family was hit with the sudden news of my dad's impeding divorce from my mom.Both tanks will have everything that I had with it, including the filters, gravel and all decorations.I'm thinking about $400.00 for them both and it would have to be picked up at my home.Is that a good price for them both? Thank you,Beth [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 41269	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 6/23/2009
Subject: Re: Tap water Baseline testing, first test.

The dechlor is NOT good for them and can cause digestive issues if consumed BUT the bigger problem for your baseline testing is that their spit may affect your pH. Saliva is very acidic. I'm not sure how much would be needed to alter the pH and KH test results. Put the bucket up where the doggie can't get to it and if it's only 1.25G of a 5G bucket, the cat should not be able to get to it either, unless you have one of the rare, elusive and thought to be extinct Giraffe Cat or Elephant Cat. ;-) Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Amber Berglund Sent: Tuesday, June 23, 2009 10:20 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Tap water Baseline testing, first test. Oh... and another question will cats or dogs drinking out of the bucket affect anything? I try to keep them out of it but a bucket of water seems to fascinate all the pets in the house ;) Will the dechlor hurt them in any way? Amber Amber Berglund wrote: > > > Unfortunately I cannot have stuff shipped site to store from > walmart.com, and I asked the hubby if they can order larger sized > bottles than the tiny itty bitty ones they have now (tetra aquasafe). > I was told no, because they don't sell enough of the normal aquasafe > to warrant ordering a bigger bottle of it. Does that treat heavy metals? > I also cannot order from drsfostersmith.com with my fed ex account > number, they tell me "it's not possible" blah blah blah, little do > they know I could email them a label for the stupid box but yet they > argue with me in circles. They just don't want to do it basically. I > could probably make a phone call and ask for a manager and eventually > get my way if I was that pushy of a person, but I'm not ;) Maybe I can > get the local "mom and pop" hardware and feed store to order me some > bigger bottles of something cheep ;) I will have to ask her what she > normally orders, I'm pretty sure I saw the tetra aquasafe there as well as walmart. > > Amber > > Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > > > > > > Almost ALL dechlor products treat for heavy metals. What is the > > brand/product that is carried by your local Wal-Mart? Never mind, I > > see they also sell the Jungle Start Right Water Conditioner and > > after looking at DFS.com, the ingredients do not include the EDTA > > tetrasodium salts used for the treatment of heavy metals by most > > dechlor products. > > > > The Walmart.com site shows that they sell the Tetra AquaSafe > > dechlor, which doesn't have the added Aloe Vera. The 16 oz. bottle > > of Tetra AquaSafe is only $7.88. > > http://www.walmart.com/catalog/product.do?product_id=3635396 > <http://www.walmart.com/catalog/product.do?product_id=3635396> > > <http://www.walmart.com/catalog/product.do?product_id=3635396 > <http://www.walmart.com/catalog/product.do?product_id=3635396>> > > Walmart.com also sells several API products, but NOT their Tap Water > > Conditioner, which would be an even better price per gallon than the > Tetra > > AquaSafe. They also have the 16 oz. of Stress Coat for 7.88. > > Here's a list of the other meds and water treatment products on > > Walmart.com. > > > http://www.walmart.com/catalog/catalog.gsp?cat=202105&fromPageCatId=20 > 2100&c > <http://www.walmart.com/catalog/catalog.gsp?cat=202105&fromPageCatId=2 > 02100&c> > > > > <http://www.walmart.com/catalog/catalog.gsp?cat=202105&fromPageCatId=2 > 02100&c > <http://www.walmart.com/catalog/catalog.gsp?cat=202105&fromPageCatId=2 > 02100&c>> > > atNavId=202074 > > > > Considering the number of tanks that you have, you should order the > gallon > > size of API's Tap Water Conditioner from DrsFosterSmith.com, use > > your account and then you won't have to use junk in your tanks for a > > year or more. 16 oz. treats 9,600 gallons of water so a gallon would > > treat close to 80,000 gallons of water. I think that would get you > > through a year > or so. > > ;-) But to be sure, if you do weekly 25% PWC's on all of your tanks, > > and my last count had you up to around 250 gallons worth of tanks, > > that > would be > > 62.5 gallons a week, times 52 weeks = ONLY 3,250 gallons a year so > > actually, a 16 oz. bottle of API's Tap Water Dechlor would last you > > about 4 years. > > It's only $5.69 for 16 oz. but if you want the gallon size, then > > that would cost you $31.99 (only $4.00 per 16 oz.) but you would be > > good for > about 30 > > years. ;-) > > > http://www.drsfostersmith.com/product/prod_display.cfm?c=3578+3974+403 > 8&pcat > <http://www.drsfostersmith.com/product/prod_display.cfm?c=3578+3974+40 > 38&pcat> > > > > <http://www.drsfostersmith.com/product/prod_display.cfm?c=3578+3974+40 > 38&pcat > <http://www.drsfostersmith.com/product/prod_display.cfm?c=3578+3974+40 > 38&pcat>> > > id=4038 > > > > While API is generally a good company, unfortunately, they still > > have to compete with all of the other crap that is sold by other BIG > > fish > product > > manufacturers, which is why they have their version known as Stress > Coat, > > which besides being a dechlor, also has Aloe Vera and who knows what > > else in it. The MSDS > > http://cms.marsfishcare.com/files/msds/stress_coat_ng_030907.pdf, > <http://cms.marsfishcare.com/files/msds/stress_coat_ng_030907.pdf,> > > <http://cms.marsfishcare.com/files/msds/stress_coat_ng_030907.pdf, > <http://cms.marsfishcare.com/files/msds/stress_coat_ng_030907.pdf,>> > in > > Section > > 3., shows "Aloes, extract" and then "non hazardous ingredients" and > > "proprietary" ingredients making up 20% of the product and the rest > > (80%) is > > water. I'm not sure why they did not list the Sodium Thiosulphate > and EDTA > > which are the products they use in the API Tap Water Conditioner > > (the regular dechlor from API). I wonder if Stress Coat uses > > something different and "proprietary" for Stress Coat, much like > > SeaChem's Prime does > not list > > their "proprietary" ingredients on the MSDS for Prime. > > > > API also has their version of a bottled bacteria, Stress Zyme, which > also > > does not work as advertised... at least not like Dr. Tim's One And > > Only, which does work. > > > > API also sells their patented (just kidding) version of Aquarium > Salt, to > > compete with the likes of Doc. Johnson and others. Of course, the > MSDS for > > API's Aquarium Salt lists the ingredients as 100% Sodium Chloride... > > imagine > > that, their "Aquarium Salt" and all the other aquarium salts sold > > for several dollars a pint are just plain and simple, good ol' salt. > > The > stuff > > you can get a LOT cheaper at your local grocery store. > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>> > > (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the > > right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by > > Year, > Month) > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On Behalf Of Amber Berglund > > Sent: Monday, June 22, 2009 10:03 PM > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Tap water Baseline testing, first test. > > > > I use stress coat, and honestly I wish my LFS didn't only order it. > > I go through so much of it I can't afford to buy it off the > > internet, the shipping would be outrageous for a big bottle of anything. > > I've asked repeatedly if they will get a different kind of water > > conditioner but the owner is a jerk and refuses to order anything > > else *sigh*. The downfall to living on an island I suppose. > > I have heavy metals in my tap water so regardless I need something > > that takes care of heavy metals, so I can't get the one that walmart > > carries here, it only takes care of chlorine. > > > > Amber > > > > Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > > > > > > > > > That's fine. If I recall, when you posted info from your water > utility a > > > while back, they still use Chlorine only up there... right? That > > would be > > > why you do not see the residual ammonia that results from using a > > dechlor > > > product, with the plurality of utilities that now use Chloramine. > > > > > > Which brand dechlor did you use? > > > > > > I'm not sure if Prime, or one of the other dechlors that also > > purportedly > > > treat ammonia, would actually change the test results, or not. > > > Maybe someone who uses Prime can test their Chloramine treated tap > > > water, then add Prime and then test again to see if ammonia shows > > > up. > > > > > > With your low pH, ammonia isn't really an issue for you anyhow. > > > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>>> > > > (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the > right > > > side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, > > Month) > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On Behalf Of Amber > > > Berglund > > > Sent: Monday, June 22, 2009 9:42 PM > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Tap water Baseline testing, first test. > > > > > > All of the tests were after the dechlor product, so I don't see > > > any ammonia after using the product... is that good or bad? LOL. > > > > > > Amber > > > > > > Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > OK... Keep this thread intact by posting your 24 hour and 48 > hour test > > > > results in this same thread. > > > > > > > > Yes, if your KH test changed colors after only one drop, it > > > > means, > > > at this > > > > stage in the testing process, you have no more than 1 dH (or > less than > > > > 18ppm > > > > of Carbonate Hardness). > > > > > > > > Don't forget to add your dechlor and test the ammonia again to > > > > let > > > us know > > > > how much free ammonia you get when the chloramine bond is broken... > > > > usually > > > > around 0.5ppm. > > > > > > > > Keep the same container of water for the testing at 24 hours and > > > > 48 > > > hours. > > > > > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>> > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>>> > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>> > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>>>> > > > > (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on > > > > the > > right > > > > side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by > > > > Year, > > > Month) > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On Behalf Of Amber > > > > Berglund > > > > Sent: Monday, June 22, 2009 9:17 PM > > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > Subject: [AquaticLife] Tap water Baseline testing, first test. > > > > > > > > First baseline testing for my tap water: > > > > > > > > pH: 6.5 or 6.6 hard to tell > > > > > > > > KH: I'm not sure how to read this one, it only takes 1 drop for > > > > the water to turn yellow, does that mean I'm somewhere near 0 > > > > ppm? The chart > > says 0-3 > > > > drops is 0-50 ppm... > > > > > > > > GH: Approximately 100 ppm > > > > > > > > Ammonia: 0 > > > > > > > > Nitrate: 0 > > > > > > > > Nitrite: 0

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 41270	From: bill 1433	Date: 6/23/2009
Subject: Re: 55 and 30 gallon tanks for sale question.

Yes it is Beth.  If you check :  http://geo.craigslist.org/iso/us/ you will see many at that price.  For the 30 about 100 BUT it depends on many extras you may include like heaters, cabinets, full canopies for the top.  This list will give you a good and fair idea for what setups and aquariums are going for in your area.   ol' bill --- On Tue, 6/23/09, Beth F Brownell <spencer_creek_studios@...> wrote: From: Beth F Brownell <spencer_creek_studios@...> Subject: [AquaticLife] 55 and 30 gallon tanks for sale question. To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Date: Tuesday, June 23, 2009, 10:52 AM What price should I list them for?I'm selling my tanks as our family was hit with the sudden news of my dad's impeding divorce from my mom.Both tanks will have everything that I had with it, including the filters, gravel and all decorations.I'm thinking about $400.00 for them both and it would have to be picked up at my home.Is that a good price for them both? Thank you,Beth       [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] ------------------------------------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the home page.  Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com to receive the digest, which includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com for the No E-Mail option where you will still be able to read messages on the group and post replies. Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com to receive individual e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 41271	From: toddswoman496861@aim.com	Date: 6/23/2009
Subject: Re: 55 and 30 gallon tanks for sale question.

why do you have to sell them? I do understand about the divorce? Kate Dale -----Original Message----- From: Beth F Brownell <spencer_creek_studios@...> To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Tue, Jun 23, 2009 10:52 am Subject: [AquaticLife] 55 and 30 gallon tanks for sale question. What price should I list them for?I'm selling my tanks as our family was hit with the sudden news of my dad's impeding divorce from my mom.Both tanks will have everything that I had with it, including the filters, gravel and all decorations.I'm thinking about $400.00 for them both and it would have to be picked up at my home.Is that a good price for them both? Thank you,Beth [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] ------------------------------------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matte r. If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the home page. Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com to receive the digest, which includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com for the No E-Mail option where you will still be able to read messages on the group and post replies. Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com to receive individual e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 41272	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 6/23/2009
Subject: Re: Tap water Baseline testing, first test.

If they stay in the water too long to where they start to decay, that could be an issue but not if they are picked out. Drop the carcasses into your fish tanks. My fish love when we get a drain fly outbreak and the drain flies take a dip in one of my tanks. However, what you are seeing is NOT likely fruit flies (unless you know for certain that they are, if you have some very ripe fruit around your condo) as drain flies are a common issue with apartment complexes and condos down here and I'm sure in most areas. Especially if you have a vacant unit nearby that has been vacant for a while. What happens is when the unit is vacant for too long, the water in the various traps (the U pipe section under the sink and the "U-tube" built into a toilet) will dry up from evaporation and once that happens, the drain flies can get into the sewer system. They lay their eggs in the sludge build-up inside the pipes and the flies then go through their life cycle, which ultimately brings them into swimming around as little wormies/larvae in other peoples drain traps and then the little wormies/larvae morph into the flies and they mysteriously come flying out of your drain. Fortunately, most species of drain flies have a very short lifespan. If you can get your maintenance people to run water (or pour it if the water is turned off on that unit) into ALL of the drains of the vacant units, this will begin to stop the cycle. What you can personally do is cover all of your drains to keep the flies from entering your place. I would use an inverted plastic cup over the drains and also close the drain lever (if there is one). Not much you can do with the toilet but because the toilet has a glazed U built into it and the water volume used to flush toilets usually flushes away any "build-up" from the surface of the toilet, there usually isn't much sludge built up in the U trap of a toilet as compared to the U traps of sinks and tubs. Please note that besides dive-bombing your bucket of baseline test water, they will also dive-bomb a cup of coffee or any other open container with liquid in it. As for my coffee, I just consider them like a coffee ground and drink 'em down. They can't be any worse for me than my ex-wife's cooking.. and I lived through that. LOL Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Amber Berglund Sent: Tuesday, June 23, 2009 10:19 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Tap water Baseline testing, first test. Will a few dead fruit flies hurt my baseline testing? LOL Good fly traps though ;) I bet the fish agree when the fruit flies land in the fish tanks, LOL. Amber Amber Berglund wrote: > > > Unfortunately I cannot have stuff shipped site to store from > walmart.com, and I asked the hubby if they can order larger sized > bottles than the tiny itty bitty ones they have now (tetra aquasafe). > I was told no, because they don't sell enough of the normal aquasafe > to warrant ordering a bigger bottle of it. Does that treat heavy metals? > I also cannot order from drsfostersmith.com with my fed ex account > number, they tell me "it's not possible" blah blah blah, little do > they know I could email them a label for the stupid box but yet they > argue with me in circles. They just don't want to do it basically. I > could probably make a phone call and ask for a manager and eventually > get my way if I was that pushy of a person, but I'm not ;) Maybe I can > get the local "mom and pop" hardware and feed store to order me some > bigger bottles of something cheep ;) I will have to ask her what she > normally orders, I'm pretty sure I saw the tetra aquasafe there as well as walmart. > > Amber > > Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > > > > > > Almost ALL dechlor products treat for heavy metals. What is the > > brand/product that is carried by your local Wal-Mart? Never mind, I > > see they also sell the Jungle Start Right Water Conditioner and > > after looking at DFS.com, the ingredients do not include the EDTA > > tetrasodium salts used for the treatment of heavy metals by most > > dechlor products. > > > > The Walmart.com site shows that they sell the Tetra AquaSafe > > dechlor, which doesn't have the added Aloe Vera. The 16 oz. bottle > > of Tetra AquaSafe is only $7.88. > > http://www.walmart.com/catalog/product.do?product_id=3635396 > <http://www.walmart.com/catalog/product.do?product_id=3635396> > > <http://www.walmart.com/catalog/product.do?product_id=3635396 > <http://www.walmart.com/catalog/product.do?product_id=3635396>> > > Walmart.com also sells several API products, but NOT their Tap Water > > Conditioner, which would be an even better price per gallon than the > Tetra > > AquaSafe. They also have the 16 oz. of Stress Coat for 7.88. > > Here's a list of the other meds and water treatment products on > > Walmart.com. > > > http://www.walmart.com/catalog/catalog.gsp?cat=202105&fromPageCatId=20 > 2100&c > <http://www.walmart.com/catalog/catalog.gsp?cat=202105&fromPageCatId=2 > 02100&c> > > > > <http://www.walmart.com/catalog/catalog.gsp?cat=202105&fromPageCatId=2 > 02100&c > <http://www.walmart.com/catalog/catalog.gsp?cat=202105&fromPageCatId=2 > 02100&c>> > > atNavId=202074 > > > > Considering the number of tanks that you have, you should order the > gallon > > size of API's Tap Water Conditioner from DrsFosterSmith.com, use > > your account and then you won't have to use junk in your tanks for a > > year or more. 16 oz. treats 9,600 gallons of water so a gallon would > > treat close to 80,000 gallons of water. I think that would get you > > through a year > or so. > > ;-) But to be sure, if you do weekly 25% PWC's on all of your tanks, > > and my last count had you up to around 250 gallons worth of tanks, > > that > would be > > 62.5 gallons a week, times 52 weeks = ONLY 3,250 gallons a year so > > actually, a 16 oz. bottle of API's Tap Water Dechlor would last you > > about 4 years. > > It's only $5.69 for 16 oz. but if you want the gallon size, then > > that would cost you $31.99 (only $4.00 per 16 oz.) but you would be > > good for > about 30 > > years. ;-) > > > http://www.drsfostersmith.com/product/prod_display.cfm?c=3578+3974+403 > 8&pcat > <http://www.drsfostersmith.com/product/prod_display.cfm?c=3578+3974+40 > 38&pcat> > > > > <http://www.drsfostersmith.com/product/prod_display.cfm?c=3578+3974+40 > 38&pcat > <http://www.drsfostersmith.com/product/prod_display.cfm?c=3578+3974+40 > 38&pcat>> > > id=4038 > > > > While API is generally a good company, unfortunately, they still > > have to compete with all of the other crap that is sold by other BIG > > fish > product > > manufacturers, which is why they have their version known as Stress > Coat, > > which besides being a dechlor, also has Aloe Vera and who knows what > > else in it. The MSDS > > http://cms.marsfishcare.com/files/msds/stress_coat_ng_030907.pdf, > <http://cms.marsfishcare.com/files/msds/stress_coat_ng_030907.pdf,> > > <http://cms.marsfishcare.com/files/msds/stress_coat_ng_030907.pdf, > <http://cms.marsfishcare.com/files/msds/stress_coat_ng_030907.pdf,>> > in > > Section > > 3., shows "Aloes, extract" and then "non hazardous ingredients" and > > "proprietary" ingredients making up 20% of the product and the rest > > (80%) is > > water. I'm not sure why they did not list the Sodium Thiosulphate > and EDTA > > which are the products they use in the API Tap Water Conditioner > > (the regular dechlor from API). I wonder if Stress Coat uses > > something different and "proprietary" for Stress Coat, much like > > SeaChem's Prime does > not list > > their "proprietary" ingredients on the MSDS for Prime. > > > > API also has their version of a bottled bacteria, Stress Zyme, which > also > > does not work as advertised... at least not like Dr. Tim's One And > > Only, which does work. > > > > API also sells their patented (just kidding) version of Aquarium > Salt, to > > compete with the likes of Doc. Johnson and others. Of course, the > MSDS for > > API's Aquarium Salt lists the ingredients as 100% Sodium Chloride... > > imagine > > that, their "Aquarium Salt" and all the other aquarium salts sold > > for several dollars a pint are just plain and simple, good ol' salt. > > The > stuff > > you can get a LOT cheaper at your local grocery store. > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>> > > (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the > > right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by > > Year, > Month) > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On Behalf Of Amber Berglund > > Sent: Monday, June 22, 2009 10:03 PM > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Tap water Baseline testing, first test. > > > > I use stress coat, and honestly I wish my LFS didn't only order it. > > I go through so much of it I can't afford to buy it off the > > internet, the shipping would be outrageous for a big bottle of anything. > > I've asked repeatedly if they will get a different kind of water > > conditioner but the owner is a jerk and refuses to order anything > > else *sigh*. The downfall to living on an island I suppose. > > I have heavy metals in my tap water so regardless I need something > > that takes care of heavy metals, so I can't get the one that walmart > > carries here, it only takes care of chlorine. > > > > Amber > > > > Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > > > > > > > > > That's fine. If I recall, when you posted info from your water > utility a > > > while back, they still use Chlorine only up there... right? That > > would be > > > why you do not see the residual ammonia that results from using a > > dechlor > > > product, with the plurality of utilities that now use Chloramine. > > > > > > Which brand dechlor did you use? > > > > > > I'm not sure if Prime, or one of the other dechlors that also > > purportedly > > > treat ammonia, would actually change the test results, or not. > > > Maybe someone who uses Prime can test their Chloramine treated tap > > > water, then add Prime and then test again to see if ammonia shows > > > up. > > > > > > With your low pH, ammonia isn't really an issue for you anyhow. > > > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>>> > > > (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the > right > > > side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, > > Month) > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On Behalf Of Amber > > > Berglund > > > Sent: Monday, June 22, 2009 9:42 PM > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Tap water Baseline testing, first test. > > > > > > All of the tests were after the dechlor product, so I don't see > > > any ammonia after using the product... is that good or bad? LOL. > > > > > > Amber > > > > > > Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > OK... Keep this thread intact by posting your 24 hour and 48 > hour test > > > > results in this same thread. > > > > > > > > Yes, if your KH test changed colors after only one drop, it > > > > means, > > > at this > > > > stage in the testing process, you have no more than 1 dH (or > less than > > > > 18ppm > > > > of Carbonate Hardness). > > > > > > > > Don't forget to add your dechlor and test the ammonia again to > > > > let > > > us know > > > > how much free ammonia you get when the chloramine bond is broken... > > > > usually > > > > around 0.5ppm. > > > > > > > > Keep the same container of water for the testing at 24 hours and > > > > 48 > > > hours. > > > > > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>> > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>>> > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>> > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>>>> > > > > (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on > > > > the > > right > > > > side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by > > > > Year, > > > Month) > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On Behalf Of Amber > > > > Berglund > > > > Sent: Monday, June 22, 2009 9:17 PM > > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > Subject: [AquaticLife] Tap water Baseline testing, first test. > > > > > > > > First baseline testing for my tap water: > > > > > > > > pH: 6.5 or 6.6 hard to tell > > > > > > > > KH: I'm not sure how to read this one, it only takes 1 drop for > > > > the water to turn yellow, does that mean I'm somewhere near 0 > > > > ppm? The chart > > says 0-3 > > > > drops is 0-50 ppm... > > > > > > > > GH: Approximately 100 ppm > > > > > > > > Ammonia: 0 > > > > > > > > Nitrate: 0 > > > > > > > > Nitrite: 0

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 41273	From: sa.jackson	Date: 6/23/2009
Subject: Re: Self Adhesive Rope Caulk

Yes, it is the Duck brand. I needed it to repair a leak in my filter box and didn't want to shut everything down but after your replies I think I will stay away from this and dry it out so I can use the silicone. Thanks for the replies!

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 41274	From: Gail	Date: 6/23/2009
Subject: Re: Why do Algae blooms only occur in my 55 Gallon?/ update NEW plan

To answer Amber; so far I haven't noticed any plants getting sucked up in my filtration or my power head. so far so good. In response to Lenny: I leave my daylight lights on during work (approx 9 - 12 hrs) then, I switch to the blue or actinics for throughout the night (9 - 12 hrs). So, I am currently doing half and half for now. And I am still doing PWC to help get rid of current algae bloom. thanks again. :) gail --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Gail" <clandestine662002@...> wrote: > > Okay, after some much needed advice from you all. I purchased some plants. I was able to find a Water Sprite and two Anacharis. So my question is "NOW WHAT?" lol > > Any recommendations on special care? I asked the girl at the big box store as to how to care for them; she stated, "if a leaf dies, pluck it off and that is it" - Not real specific, huh? > I know the Water sprite is potted, however the Anacharis is not; can't both just float and they grow fine? > > I am a total "newbie" with the whole plant thing - not exactly the green thumb type. :D > > thanks all!! > gail > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@> wrote: > > > > The BIG THREE things for plants (and them unwanted single celled plants = > > Algae) is Lighting, CO2 & Nutrients. > > > > A heavier bioload could certainly be part of the problem as the heavier > > bioload would mean more fish poop and pee (ammonia, nitrates, phosphates) > > which are the principle feeding NUTRIENTS for plants and algae are single > > celled plants. The heavier bioload also means higher carbon and CO2 levels > > in the water from the fish breathing and from the detritus decaying and > > putting out carbonic acid. The LIGHTING could also be part of the problem. > > You have to look at the actual bulbs for any writing on them. The "blue" > > tube is likely an actinic light and the "white" tube could be fluorescent or > > compact fluorescent or other. Give us all the information/writing off of > > the bulbs, usually on one end. This would include wattage, lumens, item > > number, etc. > > > > Here's a two part article about planted tanks, that originally appeared in > > TFH Magazine, I think in 2006, and the second part of the article talks more > > about algae and will likely answer all/most of your questions. > > > > PART 1 - http://naturalaquariums.com/plantedtank/0509.html > > > > PART 2 - http://naturalaquariums.com/plantedtank/0510.html > > > > Doing more frequent tank maintenance (gravel vacuuming, proper filter > > cleaning, PWC's) on the tank with the heavier bioload and algae issues would > > be the first thing as this would lower the available nutrients and lower the > > CO2 level in the tank. The lighting, we can answer more once we know more. > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > > (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right > > side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On > > Behalf Of gail > > Sent: Monday, June 15, 2009 4:37 PM > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > Subject: [AquaticLife] Why do Algae blooms only occur in my 55 Gallon? > > > > Okay, I have been having algae blooms only occuring in my 55 gallon. > > Is it because it is my most populated tank? Or could it be due to that, and > > the light fixture on it? I currently have a light on it, that came with it. > > I bought it at a yard sale last summer, and the guy just told me that the > > lights were benneficial for Coral. It has two lights inside of it, a blue > > florescent and a white florescent. And it has a cooling fan on the light > > fixture, but that is all that I know about it. > > Can anyone here, outline the Typical causes of an algae bloom? > >   > > Thanks! > > Gail > > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 41275	From: Raymond Wetzel	Date: 6/23/2009
Subject: Re: Tap water Baseline testing, first test.

Lenny, I like your attitude! Sounds like you ex taught you what the more important things of life are (and the triviality of the unimportant). I guess you might just consider a stray drain fly or two in your coffee as the "nutty" part of your Chock Full O' Nuts -- YUMMY (LOL). Ray --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@...> wrote: > > > Please note that besides dive-bombing your bucket of baseline test water, > they will also dive-bomb a cup of coffee or any other open container with > liquid in it. As for my coffee, I just consider them like a coffee ground > and drink 'em down. They can't be any worse for me than my ex-wife's > cooking.. and I lived through that. LOL > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right > side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) > > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On > Behalf Of Amber Berglund > Sent: Tuesday, June 23, 2009 10:19 AM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Tap water Baseline testing, first test. > > Will a few dead fruit flies hurt my baseline testing? LOL Good fly traps > though ;) I bet the fish agree when the fruit flies land in the fish tanks, > LOL. > > Amber > > Amber Berglund wrote: > > > > > > Unfortunately I cannot have stuff shipped site to store from > > walmart.com, and I asked the hubby if they can order larger sized > > bottles than the tiny itty bitty ones they have now (tetra aquasafe). > > I was told no, because they don't sell enough of the normal aquasafe > > to warrant ordering a bigger bottle of it. Does that treat heavy metals? > > I also cannot order from drsfostersmith.com with my fed ex account > > number, they tell me "it's not possible" blah blah blah, little do > > they know I could email them a label for the stupid box but yet they > > argue with me in circles. They just don't want to do it basically. I > > could probably make a phone call and ask for a manager and eventually > > get my way if I was that pushy of a person, but I'm not ;) Maybe I can > > get the local "mom and pop" hardware and feed store to order me some > > bigger bottles of something cheep ;) I will have to ask her what she > > normally orders, I'm pretty sure I saw the tetra aquasafe there as well as > walmart. > > > > Amber > > > > Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > > > > > > > > > Almost ALL dechlor products treat for heavy metals. What is the > > > brand/product that is carried by your local Wal-Mart? Never mind, I > > > see they also sell the Jungle Start Right Water Conditioner and > > > after looking at DFS.com, the ingredients do not include the EDTA > > > tetrasodium salts used for the treatment of heavy metals by most > > > dechlor products. > > > > > > The Walmart.com site shows that they sell the Tetra AquaSafe > > > dechlor, which doesn't have the added Aloe Vera. The 16 oz. bottle > > > of Tetra AquaSafe is only $7.88. > > > http://www.walmart.com/catalog/product.do?product_id=3635396 > > <http://www.walmart.com/catalog/product.do?product_id=3635396> > > > <http://www.walmart.com/catalog/product.do?product_id=3635396 > > <http://www.walmart.com/catalog/product.do?product_id=3635396>> > > > Walmart.com also sells several API products, but NOT their Tap Water > > > Conditioner, which would be an even better price per gallon than the > > Tetra > > > AquaSafe. They also have the 16 oz. of Stress Coat for 7.88. > > > Here's a list of the other meds and water treatment products on > > > Walmart.com. > > > > > http://www.walmart.com/catalog/catalog.gsp?cat=202105&fromPageCatId=20 > > 2100&c > > <http://www.walmart.com/catalog/catalog.gsp?cat=202105&fromPageCatId=2 > > 02100&c> > > > > > > > <http://www.walmart.com/catalog/catalog.gsp?cat=202105&fromPageCatId=2 > > 02100&c > > <http://www.walmart.com/catalog/catalog.gsp?cat=202105&fromPageCatId=2 > > 02100&c>> > > > atNavId=202074 > > > > > > Considering the number of tanks that you have, you should order the > > gallon > > > size of API's Tap Water Conditioner from DrsFosterSmith.com, use > > > your account and then you won't have to use junk in your tanks for a > > > year or more. 16 oz. treats 9,600 gallons of water so a gallon would > > > treat close to 80,000 gallons of water. I think that would get you > > > through a year > > or so. > > > ;-) But to be sure, if you do weekly 25% PWC's on all of your tanks, > > > and my last count had you up to around 250 gallons worth of tanks, > > > that > > would be > > > 62.5 gallons a week, times 52 weeks = ONLY 3,250 gallons a year so > > > actually, a 16 oz. bottle of API's Tap Water Dechlor would last you > > > about 4 years. > > > It's only $5.69 for 16 oz. but if you want the gallon size, then > > > that would cost you $31.99 (only $4.00 per 16 oz.) but you would be > > > good for > > about 30 > > > years. ;-) > > > > > http://www.drsfostersmith.com/product/prod_display.cfm?c=3578+3974+403 > > 8&pcat > > <http://www.drsfostersmith.com/product/prod_display.cfm?c=3578+3974+40 > > 38&pcat> > > > > > > > <http://www.drsfostersmith.com/product/prod_display.cfm?c=3578+3974+40 > > 38&pcat > > <http://www.drsfostersmith.com/product/prod_display.cfm?c=3578+3974+40 > > 38&pcat>> > > > id=4038 > > > > > > While API is generally a good company, unfortunately, they still > > > have to compete with all of the other crap that is sold by other BIG > > > fish > > product > > > manufacturers, which is why they have their version known as Stress > > Coat, > > > which besides being a dechlor, also has Aloe Vera and who knows what > > > else in it. The MSDS > > > http://cms.marsfishcare.com/files/msds/stress_coat_ng_030907.pdf, > > <http://cms.marsfishcare.com/files/msds/stress_coat_ng_030907.pdf,> > > > <http://cms.marsfishcare.com/files/msds/stress_coat_ng_030907.pdf, > > <http://cms.marsfishcare.com/files/msds/stress_coat_ng_030907.pdf,>> > > in > > > Section > > > 3., shows "Aloes, extract" and then "non hazardous ingredients" and > > > "proprietary" ingredients making up 20% of the product and the rest > > > (80%) is > > > water. I'm not sure why they did not list the Sodium Thiosulphate > > and EDTA > > > which are the products they use in the API Tap Water Conditioner > > > (the regular dechlor from API). I wonder if Stress Coat uses > > > something different and "proprietary" for Stress Coat, much like > > > SeaChem's Prime does > > not list > > > their "proprietary" ingredients on the MSDS for Prime. > > > > > > API also has their version of a bottled bacteria, Stress Zyme, which > > also > > > does not work as advertised... at least not like Dr. Tim's One And > > > Only, which does work. > > > > > > API also sells their patented (just kidding) version of Aquarium > > Salt, to > > > compete with the likes of Doc. Johnson and others. Of course, the > > MSDS for > > > API's Aquarium Salt lists the ingredients as 100% Sodium Chloride... > > > imagine > > > that, their "Aquarium Salt" and all the other aquarium salts sold > > > for several dollars a pint are just plain and simple, good ol' salt. > > > The > > stuff > > > you can get a LOT cheaper at your local grocery store. > > > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>> > > > (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the > > > right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by > > > Year, > > Month) > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On Behalf Of Amber Berglund > > > Sent: Monday, June 22, 2009 10:03 PM > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Tap water Baseline testing, first test. > > > > > > I use stress coat, and honestly I wish my LFS didn't only order it. > > > I go through so much of it I can't afford to buy it off the > > > internet, the shipping would be outrageous for a big bottle of anything. > > > I've asked repeatedly if they will get a different kind of water > > > conditioner but the owner is a jerk and refuses to order anything > > > else *sigh*. The downfall to living on an island I suppose. > > > I have heavy metals in my tap water so regardless I need something > > > that takes care of heavy metals, so I can't get the one that walmart > > > carries here, it only takes care of chlorine. > > > > > > Amber > > > > > > Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > That's fine. If I recall, when you posted info from your water > > utility a > > > > while back, they still use Chlorine only up there... right? That > > > would be > > > > why you do not see the residual ammonia that results from using a > > > dechlor > > > > product, with the plurality of utilities that now use Chloramine. > > > > > > > > Which brand dechlor did you use? > > > > > > > > I'm not sure if Prime, or one of the other dechlors that also > > > purportedly > > > > treat ammonia, would actually change the test results, or not. > > > > Maybe someone who uses Prime can test their Chloramine treated tap > > > > water, then add Prime and then test again to see if ammonia shows > > > > up. > > > > > > > > With your low pH, ammonia isn't really an issue for you anyhow. > > > > > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>> > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>>> > > > > (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the > > right > > > > side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, > > > Month) > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On Behalf Of Amber > > > > Berglund > > > > Sent: Monday, June 22, 2009 9:42 PM > > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Tap water Baseline testing, first test. > > > > > > > > All of the tests were after the dechlor product, so I don't see > > > > any ammonia after using the product... is that good or bad? LOL. > > > > > > > > Amber > > > > > > > > Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > OK... Keep this thread intact by posting your 24 hour and 48 > > hour test > > > > > results in this same thread. > > > > > > > > > > Yes, if your KH test changed colors after only one drop, it > > > > > means, > > > > at this > > > > > stage in the testing process, you have no more than 1 dH (or > > less than > > > > > 18ppm > > > > > of Carbonate Hardness). > > > > > > > > > > Don't forget to add your dechlor and test the ammonia again to > > > > > let > > > > us know > > > > > how much free ammonia you get when the chloramine bond is broken... > > > > > usually > > > > > around 0.5ppm. > > > > > > > > > > Keep the same container of water for the testing at 24 hours and > > > > > 48 > > > > hours. > > > > > > > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > > > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>> > > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>>> > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>> > > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>>>> > > > > > (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on > > > > > the > > > right > > > > > side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by > > > > > Year, > > > > Month) > > > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On Behalf Of Amber > > > > > Berglund > > > > > Sent: Monday, June 22, 2009 9:17 PM > > > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > Subject: [AquaticLife] Tap water Baseline testing, first test. > > > > > > > > > > First baseline testing for my tap water: > > > > > > > > > > pH: 6.5 or 6.6 hard to tell > > > > > > > > > > KH: I'm not sure how to read this one, it only takes 1 drop for > > > > > the water to turn yellow, does that mean I'm somewhere near 0 > > > > > ppm? The chart > > > says 0-3 > > > > > drops is 0-50 ppm... > > > > > > > > > > GH: Approximately 100 ppm > > > > > > > > > > Ammonia: 0 > > > > > > > > > > Nitrate: 0 > > > > > > > > > > Nitrite: 0 >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 41276	From: Raymond Wetzel	Date: 6/23/2009
Subject: Re: Why do Algae blooms only occur in my 55 Gallon?/ update NEW plan

Gail, I think you would do best in combatting algae if you were to leave the Anacharis floating. While it will still grow some roots out along the stems to take up some water-borne nutrients if you were to plant it, the idea of using the plant for this purpose is to have it draw all its nutritional needs from the water column rather than from the substrate. After you get rid of the algae, you can consider planting some of the Anacharis. Likewise, as you grow enough Water Sprite. I don't believe the broken Water Sprite pieces will continue to grow, so be prepared to remove them before they turn brown. Yeah, Blood Parrots have a way of decorating their tank to their own tastes (LOL). Ray --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Gail" <clandestine662002@...> wrote: > > ha ha thanks for the imput. I have left the Anacharis bound for now, it has already been moved (by my fish). I will undo them and try to put them in the substrate, however, my Blood parrot may have other plans for how the tank is decorated. lol > so far, I have had pieces of the Water sprite, that broke off.... I just left them floating, in hopes they may grow. :D > > so far so good. I will keep at it and hopefully I will have the algae bloom gone soon and a nicely planted tank or floating plant tank ;) > > thanks! > Gail > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Raymond Wetzel" <sevenspringss@> wrote: > > > > Not much help, even though dead leaves should be removed from any plant as general maintenance. Yes, both can just float (even though the Water Sprite happens to be potted now). Right now, your Water Sprite will have longer stems and longer & more pointier leaves. As this plant multiplies as plant-letts grown on the edges of the large plant's leaves, these new plants will tend to be fuller -- having shorter stems and shorter but wider and generally more "rounder" (fuller) leaves, still with the attractive varied notches though. > > > > The Anacharis will start growing roots all along its stem. Not much more care is needed -- they should both do well on their own. As Anacharis is usually sold in bunches, I would guess that you have more than just two strands. The bunch should usually not be kept tied tightly together, especially when planting in the substrate, but I don't believe it would be detrimental if you preferred to keep them tied as a bunch while floating; they should still get adequate light. Ray > > > > > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Gail" <clandestine662002@> wrote: > > > > > > Okay, after some much needed advice from you all. I purchased some plants. I was able to find a Water Sprite and two Anacharis. So my question is "NOW WHAT?" lol > > > > > > Any recommendations on special care? I asked the girl at the big box store as to how to care for them; she stated, "if a leaf dies, pluck it off and that is it" - Not real specific, huh? > > > I know the Water sprite is potted, however the Anacharis is not; can't both just float and they grow fine? > > > > > > I am a total "newbie" with the whole plant thing - not exactly the green thumb type. :D > > > > > > thanks all!! > > > gail > > > > > > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 41277	From: Gail	Date: 6/23/2009
Subject: Re: Why do Algae blooms only occur in my 55 Gallon?/ update NEW plan

Okay, I guess I am on the right track. I have some Water Sprite & Anacharis floating in my tank, and some planted... for now. My naughty little Blood Parrot will probably remedy that here shortly. So maybe it will all be floating by the time I get home today. I just vaccumed the gravel and arranged the tank last night, so I think he'll be re-decorating all day while i am at work ;) --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Raymond Wetzel" <sevenspringss@...> wrote: > > Gail, I think you would do best in combatting algae if you were to leave the Anacharis floating. While it will still grow some roots out along the stems to take up some water-borne nutrients if you were to plant it, the idea of using the plant for this purpose is to have it draw all its nutritional needs from the water column rather than from the substrate. After you get rid of the algae, you can consider planting some of the Anacharis. Likewise, as you grow enough Water Sprite. I don't believe the broken Water Sprite pieces will continue to grow, so be prepared to remove them before they turn brown. Yeah, Blood Parrots have a way of decorating their tank to their own tastes (LOL). Ray > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Gail" <clandestine662002@> wrote: > > > > ha ha thanks for the imput. I have left the Anacharis bound for now, it has already been moved (by my fish). I will undo them and try to put them in the substrate, however, my Blood parrot may have other plans for how the tank is decorated. lol > > so far, I have had pieces of the Water sprite, that broke off.... I just left them floating, in hopes they may grow. :D > > > > so far so good. I will keep at it and hopefully I will have the algae bloom gone soon and a nicely planted tank or floating plant tank ;) > > > > thanks! > > Gail > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Raymond Wetzel" <sevenspringss@> wrote: > > > > > > Not much help, even though dead leaves should be removed from any plant as general maintenance. Yes, both can just float (even though the Water Sprite happens to be potted now). Right now, your Water Sprite will have longer stems and longer & more pointier leaves. As this plant multiplies as plant-letts grown on the edges of the large plant's leaves, these new plants will tend to be fuller -- having shorter stems and shorter but wider and generally more "rounder" (fuller) leaves, still with the attractive varied notches though. > > > > > > The Anacharis will start growing roots all along its stem. Not much more care is needed -- they should both do well on their own. As Anacharis is usually sold in bunches, I would guess that you have more than just two strands. The bunch should usually not be kept tied tightly together, especially when planting in the substrate, but I don't believe it would be detrimental if you preferred to keep them tied as a bunch while floating; they should still get adequate light. Ray > > > > > > > > > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Gail" <clandestine662002@> wrote: > > > > > > > > Okay, after some much needed advice from you all. I purchased some plants. I was able to find a Water Sprite and two Anacharis. So my question is "NOW WHAT?" lol > > > > > > > > Any recommendations on special care? I asked the girl at the big box store as to how to care for them; she stated, "if a leaf dies, pluck it off and that is it" - Not real specific, huh? > > > > I know the Water sprite is potted, however the Anacharis is not; can't both just float and they grow fine? > > > > > > > > I am a total "newbie" with the whole plant thing - not exactly the green thumb type. :D > > > > > > > > thanks all!! > > > > gail > > > > > > > > > > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 41278	From: Steve Biondi	Date: 6/23/2009
Subject: Severum fungus?

Hi All, Here are the pictures of my green Severum that appears to have some fungus near the gills. I am hoping that you gurus can recognize it and tell me what I should use to treat it. Thanks for all your help. Steve [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 41279	From: Beth Brownell	Date: 6/23/2009
Subject: Re: 55 and 30 gallon tanks for sale question.

We're downsizing the house very soon like by the end of summer and the two tanks will not be able to fit the new residence very easily and it has been over two years since I had fish within either tanks and it's just something that we need to sell. I enjoyed the Angelfishes that I had in both tanks but when the 2007 ice storm hit and killed all of them, I couldn't risk having more and emptied both tanks and cleaned them. Beth --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, toddswoman496861@... wrote: > why do you have to sell them? I do understand about the divorce? > > Kate Dale > -----Original Message----- > From: Beth F Brownell <spencer_creek_studios@...> > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Sent: Tue, Jun 23, 2009 10:52 am > Subject: [AquaticLife] 55 and 30 gallon tanks for sale question. > > What price should I list them for?I'm selling my tanks as our family was hit > with the sudden news of my dad's impeding divorce from my mom.Both tanks will > have everything that I had with it, including the filters, gravel and all > decorations.I'm thinking about $400.00 for them both and it would have to be > picked up at my home.Is that a good price for them both? > Thank you,Beth > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > ------------------------------------ > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. > ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> > PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the > reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> > i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- > <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matte > r. > > If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of unsubscribing, you can > change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the home > page. > > Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com to receive the digest, which > includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email > > Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com for the No E-Mail option where you > will still be able to read messages on the group and post replies. > > Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com to receive individual e-mails.Yahoo! > Groups Links > > > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 41280	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 6/23/2009
Subject: Re: Tap water Baseline testing, first test.

Well I haven't seen them drinking out of it, they want to stick their paws in it though ;) I wanted to make sure that it wasn't poisonous or anything, dirty paws won't affect pH much will it? LOL. Currently all the surfaces have stuff on them, will have to look for a clean spot to put the bucket, perhaps the kitchen counter, I'm sure that'll go over well with the hubby ;) But that would go over better than putting it in the middle of his glassworking table ;) LOL. Amber No giraffe or elephant cat's in my house ;) Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > > > The dechlor is NOT good for them and can cause digestive issues if > consumed > BUT the bigger problem for your baseline testing is that their spit may > affect your pH. Saliva is very acidic. I'm not sure how much would be > needed to alter the pH and KH test results. Put the bucket up where the > doggie can't get to it and if it's only 1.25G of a 5G bucket, the cat > should > not be able to get to it either, unless you have one of the rare, elusive > and thought to be extinct Giraffe Cat or Elephant Cat. ;-) > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right > side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On > Behalf Of Amber Berglund > Sent: Tuesday, June 23, 2009 10:20 AM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Tap water Baseline testing, first test. > > Oh... and another question will cats or dogs drinking out of the bucket > affect anything? I try to keep them out of it but a bucket of water > seems to > fascinate all the pets in the house ;) Will the dechlor hurt them in any > way? > > Amber > > Amber Berglund wrote: > > > > > > Unfortunately I cannot have stuff shipped site to store from > > walmart.com, and I asked the hubby if they can order larger sized > > bottles than the tiny itty bitty ones they have now (tetra aquasafe). > > I was told no, because they don't sell enough of the normal aquasafe > > to warrant ordering a bigger bottle of it. Does that treat heavy metals? > > I also cannot order from drsfostersmith.com with my fed ex account > > number, they tell me "it's not possible" blah blah blah, little do > > they know I could email them a label for the stupid box but yet they > > argue with me in circles. They just don't want to do it basically. I > > could probably make a phone call and ask for a manager and eventually > > get my way if I was that pushy of a person, but I'm not ;) Maybe I can > > get the local "mom and pop" hardware and feed store to order me some > > bigger bottles of something cheep ;) I will have to ask her what she > > normally orders, I'm pretty sure I saw the tetra aquasafe there as > well as > walmart. > > > > Amber > > > > Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > > > > > > > > > Almost ALL dechlor products treat for heavy metals. What is the > > > brand/product that is carried by your local Wal-Mart? Never mind, I > > > see they also sell the Jungle Start Right Water Conditioner and > > > after looking at DFS.com, the ingredients do not include the EDTA > > > tetrasodium salts used for the treatment of heavy metals by most > > > dechlor products. > > > > > > The Walmart.com site shows that they sell the Tetra AquaSafe > > > dechlor, which doesn't have the added Aloe Vera. The 16 oz. bottle > > > of Tetra AquaSafe is only $7.88. > > > http://www.walmart.com/catalog/product.do?product_id=3635396 > <http://www.walmart.com/catalog/product.do?product_id=3635396> > > <http://www.walmart.com/catalog/product.do?product_id=3635396 > <http://www.walmart.com/catalog/product.do?product_id=3635396>> > > > <http://www.walmart.com/catalog/product.do?product_id=3635396 > <http://www.walmart.com/catalog/product.do?product_id=3635396> > > <http://www.walmart.com/catalog/product.do?product_id=3635396 > <http://www.walmart.com/catalog/product.do?product_id=3635396>>> > > > Walmart.com also sells several API products, but NOT their Tap Water > > > Conditioner, which would be an even better price per gallon than the > > Tetra > > > AquaSafe. They also have the 16 oz. of Stress Coat for 7.88. > > > Here's a list of the other meds and water treatment products on > > > Walmart.com. > > > > > > http://www.walmart.com/catalog/catalog.gsp?cat=202105&fromPageCatId=20 > <http://www.walmart.com/catalog/catalog.gsp?cat=202105&fromPageCatId=20> > > 2100&c > > > <http://www.walmart.com/catalog/catalog.gsp?cat=202105&fromPageCatId=2 > <http://www.walmart.com/catalog/catalog.gsp?cat=202105&fromPageCatId=2> > > 02100&c> > > > > > > > > <http://www.walmart.com/catalog/catalog.gsp?cat=202105&fromPageCatId=2 > <http://www.walmart.com/catalog/catalog.gsp?cat=202105&fromPageCatId=2> > > 02100&c > > > <http://www.walmart.com/catalog/catalog.gsp?cat=202105&fromPageCatId=2 > <http://www.walmart.com/catalog/catalog.gsp?cat=202105&fromPageCatId=2> > > 02100&c>> > > > atNavId=202074 > > > > > > Considering the number of tanks that you have, you should order the > > gallon > > > size of API's Tap Water Conditioner from DrsFosterSmith.com, use > > > your account and then you won't have to use junk in your tanks for a > > > year or more. 16 oz. treats 9,600 gallons of water so a gallon would > > > treat close to 80,000 gallons of water. I think that would get you > > > through a year > > or so. > > > ;-) But to be sure, if you do weekly 25% PWC's on all of your tanks, > > > and my last count had you up to around 250 gallons worth of tanks, > > > that > > would be > > > 62.5 gallons a week, times 52 weeks = ONLY 3,250 gallons a year so > > > actually, a 16 oz. bottle of API's Tap Water Dechlor would last you > > > about 4 years. > > > It's only $5.69 for 16 oz. but if you want the gallon size, then > > > that would cost you $31.99 (only $4.00 per 16 oz.) but you would be > > > good for > > about 30 > > > years. ;-) > > > > > > http://www.drsfostersmith.com/product/prod_display.cfm?c=3578+3974+403 > <http://www.drsfostersmith.com/product/prod_display.cfm?c=3578+3974+403> > > 8&pcat > > > <http://www.drsfostersmith.com/product/prod_display.cfm?c=3578+3974+40 > <http://www.drsfostersmith.com/product/prod_display.cfm?c=3578+3974+40> > > 38&pcat> > > > > > > > > <http://www.drsfostersmith.com/product/prod_display.cfm?c=3578+3974+40 > <http://www.drsfostersmith.com/product/prod_display.cfm?c=3578+3974+40> > > 38&pcat > > > <http://www.drsfostersmith.com/product/prod_display.cfm?c=3578+3974+40 > <http://www.drsfostersmith.com/product/prod_display.cfm?c=3578+3974+40> > > 38&pcat>> > > > id=4038 > > > > > > While API is generally a good company, unfortunately, they still > > > have to compete with all of the other crap that is sold by other BIG > > > fish > > product > > > manufacturers, which is why they have their version known as Stress > > Coat, > > > which besides being a dechlor, also has Aloe Vera and who knows what > > > else in it. The MSDS > > > http://cms.marsfishcare.com/files/msds/stress_coat_ng_030907.pdf, > <http://cms.marsfishcare.com/files/msds/stress_coat_ng_030907.pdf,> > > <http://cms.marsfishcare.com/files/msds/stress_coat_ng_030907.pdf, > <http://cms.marsfishcare.com/files/msds/stress_coat_ng_030907.pdf,>> > > > <http://cms.marsfishcare.com/files/msds/stress_coat_ng_030907.pdf, > <http://cms.marsfishcare.com/files/msds/stress_coat_ng_030907.pdf,> > > <http://cms.marsfishcare.com/files/msds/stress_coat_ng_030907.pdf, > <http://cms.marsfishcare.com/files/msds/stress_coat_ng_030907.pdf,>>> > > in > > > Section > > > 3., shows "Aloes, extract" and then "non hazardous ingredients" and > > > "proprietary" ingredients making up 20% of the product and the rest > > > (80%) is > > > water. I'm not sure why they did not list the Sodium Thiosulphate > > and EDTA > > > which are the products they use in the API Tap Water Conditioner > > > (the regular dechlor from API). I wonder if Stress Coat uses > > > something different and "proprietary" for Stress Coat, much like > > > SeaChem's Prime does > > not list > > > their "proprietary" ingredients on the MSDS for Prime. > > > > > > API also has their version of a bottled bacteria, Stress Zyme, which > > also > > > does not work as advertised... at least not like Dr. Tim's One And > > > Only, which does work. > > > > > > API also sells their patented (just kidding) version of Aquarium > > Salt, to > > > compete with the likes of Doc. Johnson and others. Of course, the > > MSDS for > > > API's Aquarium Salt lists the ingredients as 100% Sodium Chloride... > > > imagine > > > that, their "Aquarium Salt" and all the other aquarium salts sold > > > for several dollars a pint are just plain and simple, good ol' salt. > > > The > > stuff > > > you can get a LOT cheaper at your local grocery store. > > > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>>> > > > (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the > > > right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by > > > Year, > > Month) > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On Behalf Of Amber Berglund > > > Sent: Monday, June 22, 2009 10:03 PM > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Tap water Baseline testing, first test. > > > > > > I use stress coat, and honestly I wish my LFS didn't only order it. > > > I go through so much of it I can't afford to buy it off the > > > internet, the shipping would be outrageous for a big bottle of > anything. > > > I've asked repeatedly if they will get a different kind of water > > > conditioner but the owner is a jerk and refuses to order anything > > > else *sigh*. The downfall to living on an island I suppose. > > > I have heavy metals in my tap water so regardless I need something > > > that takes care of heavy metals, so I can't get the one that walmart > > > carries here, it only takes care of chlorine. > > > > > > Amber > > > > > > Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > That's fine. If I recall, when you posted info from your water > > utility a > > > > while back, they still use Chlorine only up there... right? That > > > would be > > > > why you do not see the residual ammonia that results from using a > > > dechlor > > > > product, with the plurality of utilities that now use Chloramine. > > > > > > > > Which brand dechlor did you use? > > > > > > > > I'm not sure if Prime, or one of the other dechlors that also > > > purportedly > > > > treat ammonia, would actually change the test results, or not. > > > > Maybe someone who uses Prime can test their Chloramine treated tap > > > > water, then add Prime and then test again to see if ammonia shows > > > > up. > > > > > > > > With your low pH, ammonia isn't really an issue for you anyhow. > > > > > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>> > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>>> > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>> > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>>>> > > > > (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the > > right > > > > side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, > > > Month) > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On Behalf Of Amber > > > > Berglund > > > > Sent: Monday, June 22, 2009 9:42 PM > > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Tap water Baseline testing, first test. > > > > > > > > All of the tests were after the dechlor product, so I don't see > > > > any ammonia after using the product... is that good or bad? LOL. > > > > > > > > Amber > > > > > > > > Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > OK... Keep this thread intact by posting your 24 hour and 48 > > hour test > > > > > results in this same thread. > > > > > > > > > > Yes, if your KH test changed colors after only one drop, it > > > > > means, > > > > at this > > > > > stage in the testing process, you have no more than 1 dH (or > > less than > > > > > 18ppm > > > > > of Carbonate Hardness). > > > > > > > > > > Don't forget to add your dechlor and test the ammonia again to > > > > > let > > > > us know > > > > > how much free ammonia you get when the chloramine bond is > broken... > > > > > usually > > > > > around 0.5ppm. > > > > > > > > > > Keep the same container of water for the testing at 24 hours and > > > > > 48 > > > > hours. > > > > > > > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > > > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>> > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>>> > > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>> > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>>>> > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>> > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>>> > > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>> > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>>>>> > > > > > (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on > > > > > the > > > right > > > > > side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by > > > > > Year, > > > > Month) > > > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On Behalf Of Amber > > > > > Berglund > > > > > Sent: Monday, June 22, 2009 9:17 PM > > > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > Subject: [AquaticLife] Tap water Baseline testing, first test. > > > > > > > > > > First baseline testing for my tap water: > > > > > > > > > > pH: 6.5 or 6.6 hard to tell > > > > > > > > > > KH: I'm not sure how to read this one, it only takes 1 drop for > > > > > the water to turn yellow, does that mean I'm somewhere near 0 > > > > > ppm? The chart > > > says 0-3 > > > > > drops is 0-50 ppm... > > > > > > > > > > GH: Approximately 100 ppm > > > > > > > > > > Ammonia: 0 > > > > > > > > > > Nitrate: 0 > > > > > > > > > > Nitrite: 0 > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 41281	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 6/23/2009
Subject: Re: Tap water Baseline testing, first test.

They are fruit flies from the berry bushes behind my condo's, no one bothers to chop them down and I don't have time to go out there and chop down bushes that aren't mine ;) I just trim enough to where I can get past them, LOL. And I don't think there are any vacant units, we get these flies every summer as soon as the berries ripen, so I'm pretty sure they are something other than drain flies... Do drain flies bite? LOL. Your ex wife must've cooked like my grandma, everything left over in the fridge that wasn't expired was thrown into a stew and called goulash ;) LOL My mom/aunts/uncles used to throw their lunches into mailboxes on the way to school, guess they didn't like their sandwiches that grandma made 'em either ;) Amber Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > > > If they stay in the water too long to where they start to decay, that > could > be an issue but not if they are picked out. Drop the carcasses into your > fish tanks. My fish love when we get a drain fly outbreak and the drain > flies take a dip in one of my tanks. > > However, what you are seeing is NOT likely fruit flies (unless you > know for > certain that they are, if you have some very ripe fruit around your condo) > as drain flies are a common issue with apartment complexes and condos down > here and I'm sure in most areas. Especially if you have a vacant unit > nearby that has been vacant for a while. > > What happens is when the unit is vacant for too long, the water in the > various traps (the U pipe section under the sink and the "U-tube" > built into > a toilet) will dry up from evaporation and once that happens, the drain > flies can get into the sewer system. They lay their eggs in the sludge > build-up inside the pipes and the flies then go through their life cycle, > which ultimately brings them into swimming around as little wormies/larvae > in other peoples drain traps and then the little wormies/larvae morph into > the flies and they mysteriously come flying out of your drain. > Fortunately, > most species of drain flies have a very short lifespan. If you can get > your > maintenance people to run water (or pour it if the water is turned off on > that unit) into ALL of the drains of the vacant units, this will begin to > stop the cycle. What you can personally do is cover all of your drains to > keep the flies from entering your place. I would use an inverted plastic > cup over the drains and also close the drain lever (if there is one). Not > much you can do with the toilet but because the toilet has a glazed U > built > into it and the water volume used to flush toilets usually flushes > away any > "build-up" from the surface of the toilet, there usually isn't much sludge > built up in the U trap of a toilet as compared to the U traps of sinks and > tubs. > > Please note that besides dive-bombing your bucket of baseline test water, > they will also dive-bomb a cup of coffee or any other open container with > liquid in it. As for my coffee, I just consider them like a coffee ground > and drink 'em down. They can't be any worse for me than my ex-wife's > cooking.. and I lived through that. LOL > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right > side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On > Behalf Of Amber Berglund > Sent: Tuesday, June 23, 2009 10:19 AM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Tap water Baseline testing, first test. > > Will a few dead fruit flies hurt my baseline testing? LOL Good fly traps > though ;) I bet the fish agree when the fruit flies land in the fish > tanks, > LOL. > > Amber > > Amber Berglund wrote: > > > > > > Unfortunately I cannot have stuff shipped site to store from > > walmart.com, and I asked the hubby if they can order larger sized > > bottles than the tiny itty bitty ones they have now (tetra aquasafe). > > I was told no, because they don't sell enough of the normal aquasafe > > to warrant ordering a bigger bottle of it. Does that treat heavy metals? > > I also cannot order from drsfostersmith.com with my fed ex account > > number, they tell me "it's not possible" blah blah blah, little do > > they know I could email them a label for the stupid box but yet they > > argue with me in circles. They just don't want to do it basically. I > > could probably make a phone call and ask for a manager and eventually > > get my way if I was that pushy of a person, but I'm not ;) Maybe I can > > get the local "mom and pop" hardware and feed store to order me some > > bigger bottles of something cheep ;) I will have to ask her what she > > normally orders, I'm pretty sure I saw the tetra aquasafe there as > well as > walmart. > > > > Amber > > > > Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > > > > > > > > > Almost ALL dechlor products treat for heavy metals. What is the > > > brand/product that is carried by your local Wal-Mart? Never mind, I > > > see they also sell the Jungle Start Right Water Conditioner and > > > after looking at DFS.com, the ingredients do not include the EDTA > > > tetrasodium salts used for the treatment of heavy metals by most > > > dechlor products. > > > > > > The Walmart.com site shows that they sell the Tetra AquaSafe > > > dechlor, which doesn't have the added Aloe Vera. The 16 oz. bottle > > > of Tetra AquaSafe is only $7.88. > > > http://www.walmart.com/catalog/product.do?product_id=3635396 > <http://www.walmart.com/catalog/product.do?product_id=3635396> > > <http://www.walmart.com/catalog/product.do?product_id=3635396 > <http://www.walmart.com/catalog/product.do?product_id=3635396>> > > > <http://www.walmart.com/catalog/product.do?product_id=3635396 > <http://www.walmart.com/catalog/product.do?product_id=3635396> > > <http://www.walmart.com/catalog/product.do?product_id=3635396 > <http://www.walmart.com/catalog/product.do?product_id=3635396>>> > > > Walmart.com also sells several API products, but NOT their Tap Water > > > Conditioner, which would be an even better price per gallon than the > > Tetra > > > AquaSafe. They also have the 16 oz. of Stress Coat for 7.88. > > > Here's a list of the other meds and water treatment products on > > > Walmart.com. > > > > > > http://www.walmart.com/catalog/catalog.gsp?cat=202105&fromPageCatId=20 > <http://www.walmart.com/catalog/catalog.gsp?cat=202105&fromPageCatId=20> > > 2100&c > > > <http://www.walmart.com/catalog/catalog.gsp?cat=202105&fromPageCatId=2 > <http://www.walmart.com/catalog/catalog.gsp?cat=202105&fromPageCatId=2> > > 02100&c> > > > > > > > > <http://www.walmart.com/catalog/catalog.gsp?cat=202105&fromPageCatId=2 > <http://www.walmart.com/catalog/catalog.gsp?cat=202105&fromPageCatId=2> > > 02100&c > > > <http://www.walmart.com/catalog/catalog.gsp?cat=202105&fromPageCatId=2 > <http://www.walmart.com/catalog/catalog.gsp?cat=202105&fromPageCatId=2> > > 02100&c>> > > > atNavId=202074 > > > > > > Considering the number of tanks that you have, you should order the > > gallon > > > size of API's Tap Water Conditioner from DrsFosterSmith.com, use > > > your account and then you won't have to use junk in your tanks for a > > > year or more. 16 oz. treats 9,600 gallons of water so a gallon would > > > treat close to 80,000 gallons of water. I think that would get you > > > through a year > > or so. > > > ;-) But to be sure, if you do weekly 25% PWC's on all of your tanks, > > > and my last count had you up to around 250 gallons worth of tanks, > > > that > > would be > > > 62.5 gallons a week, times 52 weeks = ONLY 3,250 gallons a year so > > > actually, a 16 oz. bottle of API's Tap Water Dechlor would last you > > > about 4 years. > > > It's only $5.69 for 16 oz. but if you want the gallon size, then > > > that would cost you $31.99 (only $4.00 per 16 oz.) but you would be > > > good for > > about 30 > > > years. ;-) > > > > > > http://www.drsfostersmith.com/product/prod_display.cfm?c=3578+3974+403 > <http://www.drsfostersmith.com/product/prod_display.cfm?c=3578+3974+403> > > 8&pcat > > > <http://www.drsfostersmith.com/product/prod_display.cfm?c=3578+3974+40 > <http://www.drsfostersmith.com/product/prod_display.cfm?c=3578+3974+40> > > 38&pcat> > > > > > > > > <http://www.drsfostersmith.com/product/prod_display.cfm?c=3578+3974+40 > <http://www.drsfostersmith.com/product/prod_display.cfm?c=3578+3974+40> > > 38&pcat > > > <http://www.drsfostersmith.com/product/prod_display.cfm?c=3578+3974+40 > <http://www.drsfostersmith.com/product/prod_display.cfm?c=3578+3974+40> > > 38&pcat>> > > > id=4038 > > > > > > While API is generally a good company, unfortunately, they still > > > have to compete with all of the other crap that is sold by other BIG > > > fish > > product > > > manufacturers, which is why they have their version known as Stress > > Coat, > > > which besides being a dechlor, also has Aloe Vera and who knows what > > > else in it. The MSDS > > > http://cms.marsfishcare.com/files/msds/stress_coat_ng_030907.pdf, > <http://cms.marsfishcare.com/files/msds/stress_coat_ng_030907.pdf,> > > <http://cms.marsfishcare.com/files/msds/stress_coat_ng_030907.pdf, > <http://cms.marsfishcare.com/files/msds/stress_coat_ng_030907.pdf,>> > > > <http://cms.marsfishcare.com/files/msds/stress_coat_ng_030907.pdf, > <http://cms.marsfishcare.com/files/msds/stress_coat_ng_030907.pdf,> > > <http://cms.marsfishcare.com/files/msds/stress_coat_ng_030907.pdf, > <http://cms.marsfishcare.com/files/msds/stress_coat_ng_030907.pdf,>>> > > in > > > Section > > > 3., shows "Aloes, extract" and then "non hazardous ingredients" and > > > "proprietary" ingredients making up 20% of the product and the rest > > > (80%) is > > > water. I'm not sure why they did not list the Sodium Thiosulphate > > and EDTA > > > which are the products they use in the API Tap Water Conditioner > > > (the regular dechlor from API). I wonder if Stress Coat uses > > > something different and "proprietary" for Stress Coat, much like > > > SeaChem's Prime does > > not list > > > their "proprietary" ingredients on the MSDS for Prime. > > > > > > API also has their version of a bottled bacteria, Stress Zyme, which > > also > > > does not work as advertised... at least not like Dr. Tim's One And > > > Only, which does work. > > > > > > API also sells their patented (just kidding) version of Aquarium > > Salt, to > > > compete with the likes of Doc. Johnson and others. Of course, the > > MSDS for > > > API's Aquarium Salt lists the ingredients as 100% Sodium Chloride... > > > imagine > > > that, their "Aquarium Salt" and all the other aquarium salts sold > > > for several dollars a pint are just plain and simple, good ol' salt. > > > The > > stuff > > > you can get a LOT cheaper at your local grocery store. > > > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>>> > > > (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the > > > right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by > > > Year, > > Month) > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On Behalf Of Amber Berglund > > > Sent: Monday, June 22, 2009 10:03 PM > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Tap water Baseline testing, first test. > > > > > > I use stress coat, and honestly I wish my LFS didn't only order it. > > > I go through so much of it I can't afford to buy it off the > > > internet, the shipping would be outrageous for a big bottle of > anything. > > > I've asked repeatedly if they will get a different kind of water > > > conditioner but the owner is a jerk and refuses to order anything > > > else *sigh*. The downfall to living on an island I suppose. > > > I have heavy metals in my tap water so regardless I need something > > > that takes care of heavy metals, so I can't get the one that walmart > > > carries here, it only takes care of chlorine. > > > > > > Amber > > > > > > Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > That's fine. If I recall, when you posted info from your water > > utility a > > > > while back, they still use Chlorine only up there... right? That > > > would be > > > > why you do not see the residual ammonia that results from using a > > > dechlor > > > > product, with the plurality of utilities that now use Chloramine. > > > > > > > > Which brand dechlor did you use? > > > > > > > > I'm not sure if Prime, or one of the other dechlors that also > > > purportedly > > > > treat ammonia, would actually change the test results, or not. > > > > Maybe someone who uses Prime can test their Chloramine treated tap > > > > water, then add Prime and then test again to see if ammonia shows > > > > up. > > > > > > > > With your low pH, ammonia isn't really an issue for you anyhow. > > > > > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>> > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>>> > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>> > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>>>> > > > > (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the > > right > > > > side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, > > > Month) > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On Behalf Of Amber > > > > Berglund > > > > Sent: Monday, June 22, 2009 9:42 PM > > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Tap water Baseline testing, first test. > > > > > > > > All of the tests were after the dechlor product, so I don't see > > > > any ammonia after using the product... is that good or bad? LOL. > > > > > > > > Amber > > > > > > > > Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > OK... Keep this thread intact by posting your 24 hour and 48 > > hour test > > > > > results in this same thread. > > > > > > > > > > Yes, if your KH test changed colors after only one drop, it > > > > > means, > > > > at this > > > > > stage in the testing process, you have no more than 1 dH (or > > less than > > > > > 18ppm > > > > > of Carbonate Hardness). > > > > > > > > > > Don't forget to add your dechlor and test the ammonia again to > > > > > let > > > > us know > > > > > how much free ammonia you get when the chloramine bond is > broken... > > > > > usually > > > > > around 0.5ppm. > > > > > > > > > > Keep the same container of water for the testing at 24 hours and > > > > > 48 > > > > hours. > > > > > > > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > > > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>> > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>>> > > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>> > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>>>> > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>> > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>>> > > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>> > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>>>>> > > > > > (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on > > > > > the > > > right > > > > > side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by > > > > > Year, > > > > Month) > > > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On Behalf Of Amber > > > > > Berglund > > > > > Sent: Monday, June 22, 2009 9:17 PM > > > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > Subject: [AquaticLife] Tap water Baseline testing, first test. > > > > > > > > > > First baseline testing for my tap water: > > > > > > > > > > pH: 6.5 or 6.6 hard to tell > > > > > > > > > > KH: I'm not sure how to read this one, it only takes 1 drop for > > > > > the water to turn yellow, does that mean I'm somewhere near 0 > > > > > ppm? The chart > > > says 0-3 > > > > > drops is 0-50 ppm... > > > > > > > > > > GH: Approximately 100 ppm > > > > > > > > > > Ammonia: 0 > > > > > > > > > > Nitrate: 0 > > > > > > > > > > Nitrite: 0 > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 41282	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 6/23/2009
Subject: Re: Tap water Baseline testing, first test.

Oh and after hearing stories from my mom about the food grandma made when they were growing up I now no longer think that it was gross when grandpa covered all of his food in something, such as ketchup or peanut butter ;) LOL. Amber Amber Berglund wrote: > > > They are fruit flies from the berry bushes behind my condo's, no one > bothers to chop them down and I don't have time to go out there and chop > down bushes that aren't mine ;) I just trim enough to where I can get > past them, LOL. > And I don't think there are any vacant units, we get these flies every > summer as soon as the berries ripen, so I'm pretty sure they are > something other than drain flies... Do drain flies bite? LOL. > > Your ex wife must've cooked like my grandma, everything left over in the > fridge that wasn't expired was thrown into a stew and called goulash ;) > LOL My mom/aunts/uncles used to throw their lunches into mailboxes on > the way to school, guess they didn't like their sandwiches that grandma > made 'em either ;) > > Amber > > Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > > > > > > If they stay in the water too long to where they start to decay, that > > could > > be an issue but not if they are picked out. Drop the carcasses into your > > fish tanks. My fish love when we get a drain fly outbreak and the drain > > flies take a dip in one of my tanks. > > > > However, what you are seeing is NOT likely fruit flies (unless you > > know for > > certain that they are, if you have some very ripe fruit around your > condo) > > as drain flies are a common issue with apartment complexes and > condos down > > here and I'm sure in most areas. Especially if you have a vacant unit > > nearby that has been vacant for a while. > > > > What happens is when the unit is vacant for too long, the water in the > > various traps (the U pipe section under the sink and the "U-tube" > > built into > > a toilet) will dry up from evaporation and once that happens, the drain > > flies can get into the sewer system. They lay their eggs in the sludge > > build-up inside the pipes and the flies then go through their life > cycle, > > which ultimately brings them into swimming around as little > wormies/larvae > > in other peoples drain traps and then the little wormies/larvae > morph into > > the flies and they mysteriously come flying out of your drain. > > Fortunately, > > most species of drain flies have a very short lifespan. If you can get > > your > > maintenance people to run water (or pour it if the water is turned > off on > > that unit) into ALL of the drains of the vacant units, this will > begin to > > stop the cycle. What you can personally do is cover all of your > drains to > > keep the flies from entering your place. I would use an inverted plastic > > cup over the drains and also close the drain lever (if there is > one). Not > > much you can do with the toilet but because the toilet has a glazed U > > built > > into it and the water volume used to flush toilets usually flushes > > away any > > "build-up" from the surface of the toilet, there usually isn't much > sludge > > built up in the U trap of a toilet as compared to the U traps of > sinks and > > tubs. > > > > Please note that besides dive-bombing your bucket of baseline test > water, > > they will also dive-bomb a cup of coffee or any other open container > with > > liquid in it. As for my coffee, I just consider them like a coffee > ground > > and drink 'em down. They can't be any worse for me than my ex-wife's > > cooking.. and I lived through that. LOL > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>> > > (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right > > side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, > Month) > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On > > Behalf Of Amber Berglund > > Sent: Tuesday, June 23, 2009 10:19 AM > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Tap water Baseline testing, first test. > > > > Will a few dead fruit flies hurt my baseline testing? LOL Good fly traps > > though ;) I bet the fish agree when the fruit flies land in the fish > > tanks, > > LOL. > > > > Amber > > > > Amber Berglund wrote: > > > > > > > > > Unfortunately I cannot have stuff shipped site to store from > > > walmart.com, and I asked the hubby if they can order larger sized > > > bottles than the tiny itty bitty ones they have now (tetra aquasafe). > > > I was told no, because they don't sell enough of the normal aquasafe > > > to warrant ordering a bigger bottle of it. Does that treat heavy > metals? > > > I also cannot order from drsfostersmith.com with my fed ex account > > > number, they tell me "it's not possible" blah blah blah, little do > > > they know I could email them a label for the stupid box but yet they > > > argue with me in circles. They just don't want to do it basically. I > > > could probably make a phone call and ask for a manager and eventually > > > get my way if I was that pushy of a person, but I'm not ;) Maybe I can > > > get the local "mom and pop" hardware and feed store to order me some > > > bigger bottles of something cheep ;) I will have to ask her what she > > > normally orders, I'm pretty sure I saw the tetra aquasafe there as > > well as > > walmart. > > > > > > Amber > > > > > > Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > Almost ALL dechlor products treat for heavy metals. What is the > > > > brand/product that is carried by your local Wal-Mart? Never mind, I > > > > see they also sell the Jungle Start Right Water Conditioner and > > > > after looking at DFS.com, the ingredients do not include the EDTA > > > > tetrasodium salts used for the treatment of heavy metals by most > > > > dechlor products. > > > > > > > > The Walmart.com site shows that they sell the Tetra AquaSafe > > > > dechlor, which doesn't have the added Aloe Vera. The 16 oz. bottle > > > > of Tetra AquaSafe is only $7.88. > > > > http://www.walmart.com/catalog/product.do?product_id=3635396 > <http://www.walmart.com/catalog/product.do?product_id=3635396> > > <http://www.walmart.com/catalog/product.do?product_id=3635396 > <http://www.walmart.com/catalog/product.do?product_id=3635396>> > > > <http://www.walmart.com/catalog/product.do?product_id=3635396 > <http://www.walmart.com/catalog/product.do?product_id=3635396> > > <http://www.walmart.com/catalog/product.do?product_id=3635396 > <http://www.walmart.com/catalog/product.do?product_id=3635396>>> > > > > <http://www.walmart.com/catalog/product.do?product_id=3635396 > <http://www.walmart.com/catalog/product.do?product_id=3635396> > > <http://www.walmart.com/catalog/product.do?product_id=3635396 > <http://www.walmart.com/catalog/product.do?product_id=3635396>> > > > <http://www.walmart.com/catalog/product.do?product_id=3635396 > <http://www.walmart.com/catalog/product.do?product_id=3635396> > > <http://www.walmart.com/catalog/product.do?product_id=3635396 > <http://www.walmart.com/catalog/product.do?product_id=3635396>>>> > > > > Walmart.com also sells several API products, but NOT their Tap Water > > > > Conditioner, which would be an even better price per gallon than the > > > Tetra > > > > AquaSafe. They also have the 16 oz. of Stress Coat for 7.88. > > > > Here's a list of the other meds and water treatment products on > > > > Walmart.com. > > > > > > > > > > http://www.walmart.com/catalog/catalog.gsp?cat=202105&fromPageCatId=20 > <http://www.walmart.com/catalog/catalog.gsp?cat=202105&fromPageCatId=20> > > > <http://www.walmart.com/catalog/catalog.gsp?cat=202105&fromPageCatId=20 > <http://www.walmart.com/catalog/catalog.gsp?cat=202105&fromPageCatId=20>> > > > 2100&c > > > > > > <http://www.walmart.com/catalog/catalog.gsp?cat=202105&fromPageCatId=2 > <http://www.walmart.com/catalog/catalog.gsp?cat=202105&fromPageCatId=2> > > > <http://www.walmart.com/catalog/catalog.gsp?cat=202105&fromPageCatId=2 > <http://www.walmart.com/catalog/catalog.gsp?cat=202105&fromPageCatId=2>> > > > 02100&c> > > > > > > > > > > > > > <http://www.walmart.com/catalog/catalog.gsp?cat=202105&fromPageCatId=2 > <http://www.walmart.com/catalog/catalog.gsp?cat=202105&fromPageCatId=2> > > > <http://www.walmart.com/catalog/catalog.gsp?cat=202105&fromPageCatId=2 > <http://www.walmart.com/catalog/catalog.gsp?cat=202105&fromPageCatId=2>> > > > 02100&c > > > > > > <http://www.walmart.com/catalog/catalog.gsp?cat=202105&fromPageCatId=2 > <http://www.walmart.com/catalog/catalog.gsp?cat=202105&fromPageCatId=2> > > > <http://www.walmart.com/catalog/catalog.gsp?cat=202105&fromPageCatId=2 > <http://www.walmart.com/catalog/catalog.gsp?cat=202105&fromPageCatId=2>> > > > 02100&c>> > > > > atNavId=202074 > > > > > > > > Considering the number of tanks that you have, you should order the > > > gallon > > > > size of API's Tap Water Conditioner from DrsFosterSmith.com, use > > > > your account and then you won't have to use junk in your tanks for a > > > > year or more. 16 oz. treats 9,600 gallons of water so a gallon would > > > > treat close to 80,000 gallons of water. I think that would get you > > > > through a year > > > or so. > > > > ;-) But to be sure, if you do weekly 25% PWC's on all of your tanks, > > > > and my last count had you up to around 250 gallons worth of tanks, > > > > that > > > would be > > > > 62.5 gallons a week, times 52 weeks = ONLY 3,250 gallons a year so > > > > actually, a 16 oz. bottle of API's Tap Water Dechlor would last you > > > > about 4 years. > > > > It's only $5.69 for 16 oz. but if you want the gallon size, then > > > > that would cost you $31.99 (only $4.00 per 16 oz.) but you would be > > > > good for > > > about 30 > > > > years. ;-) > > > > > > > > > > http://www.drsfostersmith.com/product/prod_display.cfm?c=3578+3974+403 > <http://www.drsfostersmith.com/product/prod_display.cfm?c=3578+3974+403> > > > <http://www.drsfostersmith.com/product/prod_display.cfm?c=3578+3974+403 > <http://www.drsfostersmith.com/product/prod_display.cfm?c=3578+3974+403>> > > > 8&pcat > > > > > > <http://www.drsfostersmith.com/product/prod_display.cfm?c=3578+3974+40 > <http://www.drsfostersmith.com/product/prod_display.cfm?c=3578+3974+40> > > > <http://www.drsfostersmith.com/product/prod_display.cfm?c=3578+3974+40 > <http://www.drsfostersmith.com/product/prod_display.cfm?c=3578+3974+40>> > > > 38&pcat> > > > > > > > > > > > > > <http://www.drsfostersmith.com/product/prod_display.cfm?c=3578+3974+40 > <http://www.drsfostersmith.com/product/prod_display.cfm?c=3578+3974+40> > > > <http://www.drsfostersmith.com/product/prod_display.cfm?c=3578+3974+40 > <http://www.drsfostersmith.com/product/prod_display.cfm?c=3578+3974+40>> > > > 38&pcat > > > > > > <http://www.drsfostersmith.com/product/prod_display.cfm?c=3578+3974+40 > <http://www.drsfostersmith.com/product/prod_display.cfm?c=3578+3974+40> > > > <http://www.drsfostersmith.com/product/prod_display.cfm?c=3578+3974+40 > <http://www.drsfostersmith.com/product/prod_display.cfm?c=3578+3974+40>> > > > 38&pcat>> > > > > id=4038 > > > > > > > > While API is generally a good company, unfortunately, they still > > > > have to compete with all of the other crap that is sold by other BIG > > > > fish > > > product > > > > manufacturers, which is why they have their version known as Stress > > > Coat, > > > > which besides being a dechlor, also has Aloe Vera and who knows what > > > > else in it. The MSDS > > > > > http://cms.marsfishcare.com/files/msds/stress_coat_ng_030907.pdf, > <http://cms.marsfishcare.com/files/msds/stress_coat_ng_030907.pdf,> > > <http://cms.marsfishcare.com/files/msds/stress_coat_ng_030907.pdf, > <http://cms.marsfishcare.com/files/msds/stress_coat_ng_030907.pdf,>> > > > <http://cms.marsfishcare.com/files/msds/stress_coat_ng_030907.pdf, > <http://cms.marsfishcare.com/files/msds/stress_coat_ng_030907.pdf,> > > <http://cms.marsfishcare.com/files/msds/stress_coat_ng_030907.pdf, > <http://cms.marsfishcare.com/files/msds/stress_coat_ng_030907.pdf,>>> > > > > > <http://cms.marsfishcare.com/files/msds/stress_coat_ng_030907.pdf, > <http://cms.marsfishcare.com/files/msds/stress_coat_ng_030907.pdf,> > > <http://cms.marsfishcare.com/files/msds/stress_coat_ng_030907.pdf, > <http://cms.marsfishcare.com/files/msds/stress_coat_ng_030907.pdf,>> > > > <http://cms.marsfishcare.com/files/msds/stress_coat_ng_030907.pdf, > <http://cms.marsfishcare.com/files/msds/stress_coat_ng_030907.pdf,> > > <http://cms.marsfishcare.com/files/msds/stress_coat_ng_030907.pdf, > <http://cms.marsfishcare.com/files/msds/stress_coat_ng_030907.pdf,>>>> > > > in > > > > Section > > > > 3., shows "Aloes, extract" and then "non hazardous ingredients" and > > > > "proprietary" ingredients making up 20% of the product and the rest > > > > (80%) is > > > > water. I'm not sure why they did not list the Sodium Thiosulphate > > > and EDTA > > > > which are the products they use in the API Tap Water Conditioner > > > > (the regular dechlor from API). I wonder if Stress Coat uses > > > > something different and "proprietary" for Stress Coat, much like > > > > SeaChem's Prime does > > > not list > > > > their "proprietary" ingredients on the MSDS for Prime. > > > > > > > > API also has their version of a bottled bacteria, Stress Zyme, which > > > also > > > > does not work as advertised... at least not like Dr. Tim's One And > > > > Only, which does work. > > > > > > > > API also sells their patented (just kidding) version of Aquarium > > > Salt, to > > > > compete with the likes of Doc. Johnson and others. Of course, the > > > MSDS for > > > > API's Aquarium Salt lists the ingredients as 100% Sodium Chloride... > > > > imagine > > > > that, their "Aquarium Salt" and all the other aquarium salts sold > > > > for several dollars a pint are just plain and simple, good ol' salt. > > > > The > > > stuff > > > > you can get a LOT cheaper at your local grocery store. > > > > > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>> > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>>> > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>> > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>>>> > > > > (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the > > > > right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by > > > > Year, > > > Month) > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On Behalf Of Amber Berglund > > > > Sent: Monday, June 22, 2009 10:03 PM > > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Tap water Baseline testing, first test. > > > > > > > > I use stress coat, and honestly I wish my LFS didn't only order it. > > > > I go through so much of it I can't afford to buy it off the > > > > internet, the shipping would be outrageous for a big bottle of > > anything. > > > > I've asked repeatedly if they will get a different kind of water > > > > conditioner but the owner is a jerk and refuses to order anything > > > > else *sigh*. The downfall to living on an island I suppose. > > > > I have heavy metals in my tap water so regardless I need something > > > > that takes care of heavy metals, so I can't get the one that walmart > > > > carries here, it only takes care of chlorine. > > > > > > > > Amber > > > > > > > > Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > That's fine. If I recall, when you posted info from your water > > > utility a > > > > > while back, they still use Chlorine only up there... right? That > > > > would be > > > > > why you do not see the residual ammonia that results from using a > > > > dechlor > > > > > product, with the plurality of utilities that now use Chloramine. > > > > > > > > > > Which brand dechlor did you use? > > > > > > > > > > I'm not sure if Prime, or one of the other dechlors that also > > > > purportedly > > > > > treat ammonia, would actually change the test results, or not. > > > > > Maybe someone who uses Prime can test their Chloramine treated tap > > > > > water, then add Prime and then test again to see if ammonia shows > > > > > up. > > > > > > > > > > With your low pH, ammonia isn't really an issue for you anyhow. > > > > > > > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > > > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>> > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>>> > > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>> > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>>>> > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>> > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>>> > > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>> > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>>>>> > > > > > (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the > > > right > > > > > side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, > > > > Month) > > > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On Behalf Of Amber > > > > > Berglund > > > > > Sent: Monday, June 22, 2009 9:42 PM > > > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Tap water Baseline testing, first test. > > > > > > > > > > All of the tests were after the dechlor product, so I don't see > > > > > any ammonia after using the product... is that good or bad? LOL. > > > > > > > > > > Amber > > > > > > > > > > Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > OK... Keep this thread intact by posting your 24 hour and 48 > > > hour test > > > > > > results in this same thread. > > > > > > > > > > > > Yes, if your KH test changed colors after only one drop, it > > > > > > means, > > > > > at this > > > > > > stage in the testing process, you have no more than 1 dH (or > > > less than > > > > > > 18ppm > > > > > > of Carbonate Hardness). > > > > > > > > > > > > Don't forget to add your dechlor and test the ammonia again to > > > > > > let > > > > > us know > > > > > > how much free ammonia you get when the chloramine bond is > > broken... > > > > > > usually > > > > > > around 0.5ppm. > > > > > > > > > > > > Keep the same container of water for the testing at 24 hours and > > > > > > 48 > > > > > hours. > > > > > > > > > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > > > > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>> > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>>> > > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>> > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>>>> > > > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>> > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>>> > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>> > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>>>>> > > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>> > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>>> > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>> > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>>>> > > > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>> > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>>> > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>> > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>>>>>> > > > > > > (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on > > > > > > the > > > > right > > > > > > side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by > > > > > > Year, > > > > > Month) > > > > > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > > > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On Behalf Of Amber > > > > > > Berglund > > > > > > Sent: Monday, June 22, 2009 9:17 PM > > > > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > Subject: [AquaticLife] Tap water Baseline testing, first test. > > > > > > > > > > > > First baseline testing for my tap water: > > > > > > > > > > > > pH: 6.5 or 6.6 hard to tell > > > > > > > > > > > > KH: I'm not sure how to read this one, it only takes 1 drop for > > > > > > the water to turn yellow, does that mean I'm somewhere near 0 > > > > > > ppm? The chart > > > > says 0-3 > > > > > > drops is 0-50 ppm... > > > > > > > > > > > > GH: Approximately 100 ppm > > > > > > > > > > > > Ammonia: 0 > > > > > > > > > > > > Nitrate: 0 > > > > > > > > > > > > Nitrite: 0 > > > > > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 41283	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 6/23/2009
Subject: Re: 55 and 30 gallon tanks for sale question.

Give an itemized list of at least the big things, tank, stand, filter, lighting.. and we could give you a better idea on price. You should not expect anything more than about 1/2 of what you paid... or less. It's just the nature of used stuff and how long you have to sell it. With used stuff, one man's trash is another man's treasure so one person might be willing to pay a lot more than someone else. I've purchased entire used 10G setups, iron stand, tank, filter, heater, gravel and even fish for only $50.00 and other's I've gotten for less or even free. I've shopped used bigger tanks but found that most were overpriced. The last new tank that I bought was my 65G acrylic tank and I paid $125.00 for it. I built my own stand for around $20.00 and added a $100.00 Rena Filstar canister to it so that entire system, less the gravel, fish and decorations (all of which I already had) cost me under $250.00 and it was all NEW. A NEW 55G tank, lighting, filter and heater package, from Wal-Mart, sells for under $150.00 and a stand would go for $50 - $100, depending on model and features. I realize you might have paid more or have better stuff but to a new buyer, they would have to compare their options. Make sure you list it in as many free places as possible, including this group, Craigslist, Aquabid, the other 100's of fish forums that have classified sections, etc. Also email your local fish clubs, associations and societies. The more folks that see your free ad, the better your chances of finding the "right" buyer who would be willing to pay you a fair price. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Beth Brownell Sent: Tuesday, June 23, 2009 4:45 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: 55 and 30 gallon tanks for sale question. We're downsizing the house very soon like by the end of summer and the two tanks will not be able to fit the new residence very easily and it has been over two years since I had fish within either tanks and it's just something that we need to sell. I enjoyed the Angelfishes that I had in both tanks but when the 2007 ice storm hit and killed all of them, I couldn't risk having more and emptied both tanks and cleaned them. Beth --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, toddswoman496861@... wrote: > why do you have to sell them? I do understand about the divorce? > > Kate Dale > -----Original Message----- > From: Beth F Brownell <spencer_creek_studios@...> > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Sent: Tue, Jun 23, 2009 10:52 am > Subject: [AquaticLife] 55 and 30 gallon tanks for sale question. > > What price should I list them for?I'm selling my tanks as our family > was hit with the sudden news of my dad's impeding divorce from my > mom.Both tanks will have everything that I had with it, including the > filters, gravel and all decorations.I'm thinking about $400.00 for > them both and it would have to be picked up at my home.Is that a good price for them both? > Thank you,Beth

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 41284	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 6/23/2009
Subject: Re: How many mosquito larvae do I feed one betta?

As a snack, just one or two, depending on their size. As a meal, no more than the fish can eat in a couple of minutes... kind of like the general rule of fish feeding. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Dora Smith Sent: Tuesday, June 23, 2009 1:49 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] How many mosquito larvae do I feed one betta? My betta loves mosquito larvae, and I understand they are highly nutritious; but how many do I feed him? Yours, Dora Smith Austin, TX tiggernut24@...

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 41285	From: Beth Brownell	Date: 6/23/2009
Subject: Re: 55 and 30 gallon tanks for sale question.

I am basically giving the new owners every single item that I have with the two tanks. From the heaters to the filters to the gravel to the decorations. Basically, all they need to do is put everything together and and wait 30 days to put in fish in the tanks. Beth --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, bill 1433 <warrenprint@...> wrote: > Yes it is Beth.  If you check :  http://geo.craigslist.org/iso/us/ > you will see many at that price.  For the 30 about 100 BUT > it depends on many extras you may include like heaters, cabinets, full canopies for the top.  This list will give you a good and fair idea for what setups and aquariums are going for in your area. >   > ol' bill > > --- On Tue, 6/23/09, Beth F Brownell <spencer_creek_studios@...> wrote: > > > From: Beth F Brownell <spencer_creek_studios@...> > Subject: [AquaticLife] 55 and 30 gallon tanks for sale question. > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Date: Tuesday, June 23, 2009, 10:52 AM > > > What price should I list them for?I'm selling my tanks as our family was hit with the sudden news of my dad's impeding divorce from my mom.Both tanks will have everything that I had with it, including the filters, gravel and all decorations.I'm thinking about $400.00 for them both and it would have to be picked up at my home.Is that a good price for them both? > Thank you,Beth > > >       > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > ------------------------------------ > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. > ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> > PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- > <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. > > If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the home page.  > > Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com to receive the digest, which includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email > > Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com for the No E-Mail option where you will still be able to read messages on the group and post replies. > > Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com to receive individual e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 41286	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 6/23/2009
Subject: Re: 55 and 30 gallon tanks for sale question.

Gosh I feel jipped, our walmart sells the 55 gallon kits for just under 200 dollars, granted I do get a 10% discount but I'd so prefer the 150.00 to the 200 ;) LOL. I also bought a used tank somewhat recently in town, it was a better deal than walmart that's for sure ;) I got a 125 gallon tank with powerfilter (eheim thermofilter), python gravel vac with extra length so I can clean any tank in my house with it and not switch sinks ;). I also got a bunch of miscellanious salt water stuff and some food, a bunch of crushed coral gravel which is still sitting outside on the porch. I also got the sump that they used but it's sitting in the car still, LOL. I have a lot of items that I haven't put to use and they're just taking up space I guess ;) Either way it was a very good deal, I paid $250 and the deal was that I had to move it... Oh and it also came with the steel metal stand and 4x4's to put it on so it doesn't ruin the floor, and it came with a custom built hood with custom CFL lighting. The better you price your tanks the quicker you will get rid of them, just depends on who's looking at the time ;) I was looking at the right time when the 125 gallon went up for sale, the next week someone was trying to sell their 90 gallon for over 300 ;) LOL. Amber Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > > > Give an itemized list of at least the big things, tank, stand, filter, > lighting.. and we could give you a better idea on price. > > You should not expect anything more than about 1/2 of what you paid... or > less. It's just the nature of used stuff and how long you have to sell it. > With used stuff, one man's trash is another man's treasure so one person > might be willing to pay a lot more than someone else. > > I've purchased entire used 10G setups, iron stand, tank, filter, heater, > gravel and even fish for only $50.00 and other's I've gotten for less or > even free. I've shopped used bigger tanks but found that most were > overpriced. The last new tank that I bought was my 65G acrylic tank and I > paid $125.00 for it. I built my own stand for around $20.00 and added a > $100.00 Rena Filstar canister to it so that entire system, less the > gravel, > fish and decorations (all of which I already had) cost me under > $250.00 and > it was all NEW. > > A NEW 55G tank, lighting, filter and heater package, from Wal-Mart, sells > for under $150.00 and a stand would go for $50 - $100, depending on model > and features. I realize you might have paid more or have better stuff but > to a new buyer, they would have to compare their options. > > Make sure you list it in as many free places as possible, including this > group, Craigslist, Aquabid, the other 100's of fish forums that have > classified sections, etc. Also email your local fish clubs, associations > and societies. The more folks that see your free ad, the better your > chances of finding the "right" buyer who would be willing to pay you a > fair > price. > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right > side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On > Behalf Of Beth Brownell > Sent: Tuesday, June 23, 2009 4:45 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: 55 and 30 gallon tanks for sale question. > > We're downsizing the house very soon like by the end of summer and the two > tanks will not be able to fit the new residence very easily and it has > been > over two years since I had fish within either tanks and it's just > something > that we need to sell. > I enjoyed the Angelfishes that I had in both tanks but when the 2007 ice > storm hit and killed all of them, I couldn't risk having more and emptied > both tanks and cleaned them. > > Beth > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>, toddswoman496861@... wrote: > > why do you have to sell them? I do understand about the divorce? > > > > Kate Dale > > -----Original Message----- > > From: Beth F Brownell <spencer_creek_studios@...> > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > Sent: Tue, Jun 23, 2009 10:52 am > > Subject: [AquaticLife] 55 and 30 gallon tanks for sale question. > > > > What price should I list them for?I'm selling my tanks as our family > > was hit with the sudden news of my dad's impeding divorce from my > > mom.Both tanks will have everything that I had with it, including the > > filters, gravel and all decorations.I'm thinking about $400.00 for > > them both and it would have to be picked up at my home.Is that a good > price for them both? > > Thank you,Beth > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 41287	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 6/23/2009
Subject: Re: Why do Algae blooms only occur in my 55 Gallon?/ update NEW plan

You should cut the full lighting back to 8 hours for now... and if you continue to have algae problems, maybe even a shorter time period. 8 hours of full lighting is plenty for most plants and especially for your easy to grow floating plants. The actinics should be turned off completely. Using them as a night light is actually providing a light spectrum that might be helping the algae. Your lighting system should have MOON LIGHTING (a small blue or white LED) that would provide night lighting of your tank. The link I provided earlier in this thread showed your lighting system to include the MOON LIGHTING also. Even in nature, plants do not get more than about 8 hours a day of bright lighting. I kind of use this schedule for my tanks. Turn on the room lights around 7AM... simulates sunrise/dawn. Around 9-10AM, the tank lights come on... simulates the sun getting higher into the sky and shining down on the plants. Around 5-6PM, the room lights come on and the tank lights go off... simulates the sunset/dusk. Around 7-8PM, room lights go off, except for maybe my computer monitor and TV if I'm still working. Yes, my home office is also where I keep my tanks. The above schedule also keeps the fish from getting shocked or "blinded" from going from total darkness to a fully lit tank. Using the room lights first gives them a chance to wake up before the tank lights come on. Even with only 8 hours a day of lighting, I still have algae issues sometimes but it's usually when I put off doing my weekly filter and tank maintenance for an extra few days or so. The algae is a BIG REMINDER that I failed to be a good fish owner and the fish waste is building up too much. To heck with Glo-Fish Zebra Danios and "Three Blind Fish". Why can't someone breed a maid/janitor/domestic-engineer... or would that just be a wife-fish???... that knows how to clean their own dang home? LOL Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Gail Sent: Tuesday, June 23, 2009 11:23 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Why do Algae blooms only occur in my 55 Gallon?/ update NEW plants To answer Amber; so far I haven't noticed any plants getting sucked up in my filtration or my power head. so far so good. In response to Lenny: I leave my daylight lights on during work (approx 9 - 12 hrs) then, I switch to the blue or actinics for throughout the night (9 - 12 hrs). So, I am currently doing half and half for now. And I am still doing PWC to help get rid of current algae bloom. thanks again. :) gail --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Gail" <clandestine662002@...> wrote: > > Okay, after some much needed advice from you all. I purchased some > plants. I was able to find a Water Sprite and two Anacharis. So my > question is "NOW WHAT?" lol > > Any recommendations on special care? I asked the girl at the big box store as to how to care for them; she stated, "if a leaf dies, pluck it off and that is it" - Not real specific, huh? > I know the Water sprite is potted, however the Anacharis is not; can't both just float and they grow fine? > > I am a total "newbie" with the whole plant thing - not exactly the > green thumb type. :D > > thanks all!! > gail > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@> wrote: > > > > The BIG THREE things for plants (and them unwanted single celled > > plants = > > Algae) is Lighting, CO2 & Nutrients. > > > > A heavier bioload could certainly be part of the problem as the > > heavier bioload would mean more fish poop and pee (ammonia, > > nitrates, phosphates) which are the principle feeding NUTRIENTS for > > plants and algae are single celled plants. The heavier bioload also > > means higher carbon and CO2 levels in the water from the fish > > breathing and from the detritus decaying and putting out carbonic acid. The LIGHTING could also be part of the problem. > > You have to look at the actual bulbs for any writing on them. The "blue" > > tube is likely an actinic light and the "white" tube could be > > fluorescent or compact fluorescent or other. Give us all the > > information/writing off of the bulbs, usually on one end. This > > would include wattage, lumens, item number, etc. > > > > Here's a two part article about planted tanks, that originally > > appeared in TFH Magazine, I think in 2006, and the second part of > > the article talks more about algae and will likely answer all/most of your questions. > > > > PART 1 - http://naturalaquariums.com/plantedtank/0509.html > > > > PART 2 - http://naturalaquariums.com/plantedtank/0510.html > > > > Doing more frequent tank maintenance (gravel vacuuming, proper > > filter cleaning, PWC's) on the tank with the heavier bioload and > > algae issues would be the first thing as this would lower the > > available nutrients and lower the > > CO2 level in the tank. The lighting, we can answer more once we know more. > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles > > referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, > > alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of gail > > Sent: Monday, June 15, 2009 4:37 PM > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > Subject: [AquaticLife] Why do Algae blooms only occur in my 55 Gallon? > > > > Okay, I have been having algae blooms only occuring in my 55 gallon. > > Is it because it is my most populated tank? Or could it be due to > > that, and the light fixture on it? I currently have a light on it, that came with it. > > I bought it at a yard sale last summer, and the guy just told me > > that the lights were benneficial for Coral. It has two lights inside > > of it, a blue florescent and a white florescent. And it has a > > cooling fan on the light fixture, but that is all that I know about it. > > Can anyone here, outline the Typical causes of an algae bloom? > >   > > Thanks! > > Gail > > > ------------------------------------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the home page. Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com to receive the digest, which includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com for the No E-Mail option where you will still be able to read messages on the group and post replies. Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com to receive individual e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 41288	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 6/23/2009
Subject: Re: Severum fungus?

Steve, Did you try to email the pics? If so, they will not come through. This group does not allow attachments (as most groups shouldn't as it's too easy for viruses/malware to be spread that way). In order to show us your pics, you will need to upload them to your own online photo album (Flickr, Webshots, etc.) and give us the links or you can upload them to the Group's Photos section, into your own folder and then let us know so we can go look at them. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Steve Biondi Sent: Tuesday, June 23, 2009 1:59 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Severum fungus? Hi All, Here are the pictures of my green Severum that appears to have some fungus near the gills. I am hoping that you gurus can recognize it and tell me what I should use to treat it. Thanks for all your help. Steve

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 41289	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 6/23/2009
Subject: Re: Tap water Baseline testing, first test.

Depends on what might be on their paws.... but more than likely, their paws will not affect things. I guess cat's aren't really an issue with spit but I know when I was a kid, up through college, we had Boxers (Sarge, Staff and Gunny... my dad is a Marine) and those guys could drool up a puddle so if one of them decided to drink out the bucket, they might leave more spit than water left over in the bucket when they were done. LOL One day, I'm going to start the Boxer family tradition again with Master. I wonder what the neighbors will think when they hear me calling the dog "Master"? LOL Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Amber Berglund Sent: Tuesday, June 23, 2009 5:09 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Tap water Baseline testing, first test. Well I haven't seen them drinking out of it, they want to stick their paws in it though ;) I wanted to make sure that it wasn't poisonous or anything, dirty paws won't affect pH much will it? LOL. Currently all the surfaces have stuff on them, will have to look for a clean spot to put the bucket, perhaps the kitchen counter, I'm sure that'll go over well with the hubby ;) But that would go over better than putting it in the middle of his glassworking table ;) LOL. Amber No giraffe or elephant cat's in my house ;) Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > > > The dechlor is NOT good for them and can cause digestive issues if > consumed BUT the bigger problem for your baseline testing is that > their spit may affect your pH. Saliva is very acidic. I'm not sure how > much would be needed to alter the pH and KH test results. Put the > bucket up where the doggie can't get to it and if it's only 1.25G of a > 5G bucket, the cat should not be able to get to it either, unless you > have one of the rare, elusive and thought to be extinct Giraffe Cat or > Elephant Cat. ;-) > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> (Links to any articles referenced in > above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels > and also under Archives by Year, Month) > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On Behalf Of Amber Berglund > Sent: Tuesday, June 23, 2009 10:20 AM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Tap water Baseline testing, first test. > > Oh... and another question will cats or dogs drinking out of the > bucket affect anything? I try to keep them out of it but a bucket of > water seems to fascinate all the pets in the house ;) Will the dechlor > hurt them in any way? > > Amber

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 41290	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 6/23/2009
Subject: Re: Tap water Baseline testing, first test.

Mmmmm... my mom use to make goulash... or at least, that's what she called it. It was GOOD! It was more like shell macaroni and meat sauce. It didn't look or sound like what your grandma use to make or what Wikipedia shows as the original goulash... http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Goulash Further reading down that Wiki-article has this SNIP which is more of what we had. "North American goulash In the United States and Canada, various adaptations have made the dish more suitable for local preferences, with the result that American "goulash" often bears little or no resemblance to the Hungarian original. The amount of peppers and/or paprika is often drastically reduced or even left out altogether. Ground beef frequently replaces stew beef in American goulashes, which reduces the cost as well as the cooking time. The meat and onions are then placed in the kettle, the other ingredients are added and the dish might be ready to serve in as little time as 20 to 30 minutes. American goulash is commonly finished by the addition of noodles or pasta, with elbow macaroni cited in most recipes.[21] This form of the dish was made popular by its inclusion in popular cookbooks in the twentieth century, such as Betty Crocker's Cookbook and is often noted as a comfort food."(END SNIP) Drain flies do not bite. They just buzz around and bother you.. and drink some of your coffee when you aren't looking. They're not much bigger than a pencil point and go down with a sip of coffee without much bother. ;-) Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Amber Berglund Sent: Tuesday, June 23, 2009 5:13 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Tap water Baseline testing, first test. They are fruit flies from the berry bushes behind my condo's, no one bothers to chop them down and I don't have time to go out there and chop down bushes that aren't mine ;) I just trim enough to where I can get past them, LOL. And I don't think there are any vacant units, we get these flies every summer as soon as the berries ripen, so I'm pretty sure they are something other than drain flies... Do drain flies bite? LOL. Your ex wife must've cooked like my grandma, everything left over in the fridge that wasn't expired was thrown into a stew and called goulash ;) LOL My mom/aunts/uncles used to throw their lunches into mailboxes on the way to school, guess they didn't like their sandwiches that grandma made 'em either ;) Amber Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > > > If they stay in the water too long to where they start to decay, that > could be an issue but not if they are picked out. Drop the carcasses > into your fish tanks. My fish love when we get a drain fly outbreak > and the drain flies take a dip in one of my tanks. > > However, what you are seeing is NOT likely fruit flies (unless you > know for certain that they are, if you have some very ripe fruit > around your condo) as drain flies are a common issue with apartment > complexes and condos down here and I'm sure in most areas. Especially > if you have a vacant unit nearby that has been vacant for a while. > > What happens is when the unit is vacant for too long, the water in the > various traps (the U pipe section under the sink and the "U-tube" > built into > a toilet) will dry up from evaporation and once that happens, the > drain flies can get into the sewer system. They lay their eggs in the > sludge build-up inside the pipes and the flies then go through their > life cycle, which ultimately brings them into swimming around as > little wormies/larvae in other peoples drain traps and then the little > wormies/larvae morph into the flies and they mysteriously come flying out of your drain. > Fortunately, > most species of drain flies have a very short lifespan. If you can get > your maintenance people to run water (or pour it if the water is > turned off on that unit) into ALL of the drains of the vacant units, > this will begin to stop the cycle. What you can personally do is cover > all of your drains to keep the flies from entering your place. I would > use an inverted plastic cup over the drains and also close the drain > lever (if there is one). Not much you can do with the toilet but > because the toilet has a glazed U built into it and the water volume > used to flush toilets usually flushes away any "build-up" from the > surface of the toilet, there usually isn't much sludge built up in the > U trap of a toilet as compared to the U traps of sinks and tubs. > > Please note that besides dive-bombing your bucket of baseline test > water, they will also dive-bomb a cup of coffee or any other open > container with liquid in it. As for my coffee, I just consider them > like a coffee ground and drink 'em down. They can't be any worse for > me than my ex-wife's cooking.. and I lived through that. LOL > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> (Links to any articles referenced in > above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels > and also under Archives by Year, Month) > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On Behalf Of Amber Berglund > Sent: Tuesday, June 23, 2009 10:19 AM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Tap water Baseline testing, first test. > > Will a few dead fruit flies hurt my baseline testing? LOL Good fly > traps though ;) I bet the fish agree when the fruit flies land in the > fish tanks, LOL. > > Amber

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 41291	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 6/23/2009
Subject: Re: 55 and 30 gallon tanks for sale question.

FYI.... there's NO reason whatsoever to wait 30 days to put fish in a tank. Running a tank with just water for 30 days does absolutely nothing to make the tank safe for fish. After setting up a tank and running it for a day or so, to allow the water to outgas/ingas and stabilize, then either adding Dr. Tim's One And Only OR "Fishless Cycling" the tank (using plain ammonia or one of the other fishless cycling methods), either of which will then make the tank safe to add fish. I'm not sure who gave you the 30 day time period but I've heard anything from 1 day to 3 days to 7 days and now 30 days but NONE of those time periods are accurate unless the new tank is being properly "Cycled" in order to establish the nitrogen cycle in the tank. Of course, if someone has multiple tanks (with multiple filters on each tank), this can be speeded up or avoided by transferring a fully "Cycled" filter system from another tank, onto the newly set up tank. In your ads, put that the new owners also get a FULL MEMBERSHIP in this group to give them UNLIMITED FREE ADVICE in helping them set things up and keep their tanks and fish healthy. ;-) Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Beth Brownell Sent: Tuesday, June 23, 2009 4:54 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: 55 and 30 gallon tanks for sale question. I am basically giving the new owners every single item that I have with the two tanks. From the heaters to the filters to the gravel to the decorations. Basically, all they need to do is put everything together and and wait 30 days to put in fish in the tanks. Beth --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, bill 1433 <warrenprint@...> wrote: > Yes it is Beth.  If you check :  http://geo.craigslist.org/iso/us/ you > will see many at that price.  For the 30 about 100 BUT it depends on > many extras you may include like heaters, cabinets, full canopies for the top.  This list will give you a good and fair idea for what setups and aquariums are going for in your area. >   > ol' bill > > --- On Tue, 6/23/09, Beth F Brownell <spencer_creek_studios@...> wrote: > > > From: Beth F Brownell <spencer_creek_studios@...> > Subject: [AquaticLife] 55 and 30 gallon tanks for sale question. > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Date: Tuesday, June 23, 2009, 10:52 AM > > > What price should I list them for?I'm selling my tanks as our family was hit with the sudden news of my dad's impeding divorce from my mom.Both tanks will have everything that I had with it, including the filters, gravel and all decorations.I'm thinking about $400.00 for them both and it would have to be picked up at my home.Is that a good price for them both? > Thank you,Beth

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 41292	From: Deenerz@aol.com	Date: 6/23/2009
Subject: Re: Tap water Baseline testing, first test.

My Nephrologist (Kidney specialist) told me that saliva also has a high level of Phosphorous in it. Not sure if this will have a negative effect on your water. -Mike -----Original Message----- From: Amber Berglund <amber@...> To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Tue, Jun 23, 2009 8:19 am Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Tap water Baseline testing, first test. Oh... and another question will cats or dogs drinking out of the bucket affect anything? I try to keep them out of it but a bucket of water seems to fascinate all the pets in the house ;) Will the dechlor hurt them in any way? Amber Amber Berglund wrote: > > > Unfortunately I cannot have stuff shipped site to store from > walmart.com, and I asked the hubby if they can order larger sized > bottles than the tiny itty bitty ones they have now (tetra aquasafe). I > was told no, because they don't sell enough of the normal aquasafe to > warrant ordering a bigger bottle of it. Does that treat heavy metals? > I also cannot order from drsfostersmith.com with my fed ex account > number, they tell me "it's not possible" blah blah blah, little do they > know I could email them a label for the stupid box but yet they argue > with me in circles. They just don't want to do it basically. I could > probably make a phone call and ask for a manager and eventually get my > way if I was that pushy of a person, but I'm not ;) Maybe I can get the > local "mom and pop" hardware and feed store to=2 0order me some bigger > bottles of something cheep ;) I will have to ask her what she normally > orders, I'm pretty sure I saw the tetra aquasafe there as well as walmart. > > Amber > > Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > > > > > > Almost ALL dechlor products treat for heavy metals. What is the > > brand/product that is carried by your local Wal-Mart? Never mind, I see > > they also sell the Jungle Start Right Water Conditioner and after > > looking at > > DFS.com, the ingredients do not include the EDTA tetrasodium salts > > used for > > the treatment of heavy metals by most dechlor products. > > > > The Walmart.com site shows that they sell the Tetra AquaSafe dechlor, > > which > > doesn't have the added Aloe Vera. The 16 oz. bottle of Tetra AquaSafe is > > only $7.88. > > http://www.walmart.com/catalog/product.do?product_id=3635396 > <http://www.walmart.com/catalog/product.do?product_id=3635396> > > <http://www.walmart.com/catalog/product.do?product_id=3635396 > <http://www.walmart.com/catalog/product.do?product_id=3635396>> > > Walmart.com also sells several API products, but NOT their Tap Water > > Conditioner, which would be an even better price per gallon than the > Tetra > > AquaSafe. They also have the 16 oz. of Stress Coat for 7.88. > > Here's a list of the other meds and water treatment products on > > Walmart.com. > > > http://www.walmart.com/catalog/catalog.gsp?cat=202105&fromPageCatId=202100&c > <http://www.walmart.com/catalog/catalog.gsp?cat=202105&fromPageCatId=202100&c> > > > > <http://www.walmart com/catalog/catalog.gsp?cat=202105&fromPageCatId=202100&c > <http://www.walmart.com/catalog/catalog.gsp?cat=202105&fromPageCatId=202100&c>> > > atNavId=202074 > > > > Considering the number of tanks that you have, you should order the > gallon > > size of API's Tap Water Conditioner from DrsFosterSmith.com, use your > > account and then you won't have to use junk in your tanks for a year or > > more. 16 oz. treats 9,600 gallons of water so a gallon would treat > > close to > > 80,000 gallons of water. I think that would get you through a year > or so. > > ;-) But to be sure, if you do weekly 25% PWC's on all of your tanks, > > and my > > last count had you up to around 250 gallons worth of tanks, that > would be > > 62.5 gallons a week, times 52 weeks = ONLY 3,250 gallons a year so > > actually, > > a 16 oz. bottle of API's Tap Water Dechlor would last you about 4 years. > > It's only $5.69 for 16 oz. but if you want the gallon size, then that > > would > > cost you $31.99 (only $4.00 per 16 oz.) but you would be good for > about 30 > > years. ;-) > > > http://www.drsfostersmith.com/product/prod_display.cfm?c=3578+3974+4038&pcat > <http://www.drsfostersmith.com/product/prod_display.cfm?c=3578+3974+4038&pcat> > > > > <http://www.drsfostersmith.com/product/prod_display.cfm?c=3578+3974+4038&pcat > <http://www.drsfostersmith.com/product/prod_display.cfm?c=3578+3974+4038&pcat>> > > id=4038 > > > > While API is generally a good company, unfortunately, they still have to > > compete with all of the other crap that is sold by other BIG fish > product > > manufacturers, which is why they have their version known as Stress > Coat, > > which besides being a dechlor, also has Aloe Vera and who knows what > > else in > > it. The MSDS > > http://cms.marsfishcare.com/files/msds/stress_coat_ng_030907.pdf, > <http://cms.marsfishcare.com/files/msds/stress_coat_ng_030907.pdf,> > > <http://cms.marsfishcare.com/files/msds/stress_coat_ng_030907.pdf, > <http://cms.marsfishcare.com/files/msds/stress_coat_ng_030907.pdf,>> in > > Section > > 3., shows "Aloes, extract" and then "non hazardous ingredients" and > > "proprietary" ingredients making up 20% of the product and the rest > > (80%) is > > water. I'm not sure why they did not list the Sodium Thiosulphate > and EDTA > > which are the products they use in the API Tap Water Conditioner (the > > regular dechlor from API). I wonder if Stress Coat uses something > > different > > and "proprietary" for Stress Coat, much like SeaChem's Prime does > not list > > their "proprietary" ingredients on the MSDS for Prime. > > > > API also has their version of a bottled bacteria, Stress Zyme, which > also > > does not work as advertised... at least not like Dr. Tim's One And Only, > > which does work. > > > > API also sells their patented (just kidding) version of Aquarium > Salt, to > > compete with the likes of Doc. Johnson and others. Of course, the > MSDS for > > API's Aquarium Salt lists the ingredients as 100% Sodium Chloride... > > ima gine > > that, their "Aquarium Salt" and all the other aquarium salts sold for > > several dollars a pint are just plain and simple, good ol' salt. The > stuff > > you can get a LOT cheaper at your local grocery store. > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>> > > (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right > > side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, > Month) > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On > > Behalf Of Amber Berglund > > Sent: Monday, June 22, 2009 10:03 PM > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Tap water Baseline testing, first test. > > > > I use stress coat, and honestly I wish my LFS didn't only order it. I go > > through so much of it I can't afford to buy it off the internet, the > > shipping would be outrageous for a big bottle of anything. > > I've asked repeatedly if they will get a different kind of water > > conditioner > > but the owner is a jerk and refuses to order anything else *sigh*. The > > downfall to living on an island I suppose. > > I have heavy metals in my tap water so regardless I need something that > > takes care of heavy metals, so I can't get the one that walmart carries > > here, it only takes care of chlorine. > > > > Amber > > > > Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > > > > > > > > > That's fine. If I recall, when you posted info from your water > utility a > > > while back, they still use Chlorine only up there... right? That > > would be > > > why you do not see the residual ammonia that results from using a > > dechlor > > > product, with the plurality of utilities that now use Chloramine. > > > > > > Which brand dechlor did you use? > > > > > > I'm not sure if Prime, or one of the other dechlors that also > > purportedly > > > treat ammonia, would actually change the test results, or not. Maybe > > > someone who uses Prime can test their Chloramine treated tap water, > > > then add > > > Prime and then test again to see if ammonia shows up. > > > > > > With your low pH, ammonia isn't really an issue for you anyhow. > > > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>>> > > > (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the > right > > > side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, > > Mo nth) > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On > > > Behalf Of Amber Berglund > > > Sent: Monday, June 22, 2009 9:42 PM > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Tap water Baseline testing, first test. > > > > > > All of the tests were after the dechlor product, so I don't see any > > > ammonia > > > after using the product... is that good or bad? LOL. > > > > > > Amber > > > > > > Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > OK... Keep this thread intact by posting your 24 hour and 48 > hour test > > > > results in this same thread. > > > > > > > > Yes, if your KH test changed colors after only one drop, it means, > > > at this > > > > stage in the testing process, you have no more than 1 dH (or > less than > > > > 18ppm > > > > of Carbonate Hardness). > > > > > > > > Don't forget to add your dechlor and test the ammonia again to let > > > us know > > > > how much free ammonia you get when the chloramine bond is broken... > > > > usually > > > > around200.5ppm. > > > > > > > > Keep the same container of water for the testing at 24 hours and 48 > > > hours. > > > > > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>> > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>>> > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>> > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>>>> > > > > (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the > > right > > > > side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, > > > Month) > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On > > > > Behalf Of Amber Berglund > > > > Sent: Monday, June 22, 2009 9:17 PM > > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40y ahoogroups.com> > > > > Subject: [AquaticLife] Tap water Baseline testing, first test. > > > > > > > > First baseline testing for my tap water: > > > > > > > > pH: 6.5 or 6.6 hard to tell > > > > > > > > KH: I'm not sure how to read this one, it only takes 1 drop for the > > > > water to > > > > turn yellow, does that mean I'm somewhere near 0 ppm? The chart > > says 0-3 > > > > drops is 0-50 ppm... > > > > > > > > GH: Approximately 100 ppm > > > > > > > > Ammonia: 0 > > > > > > > > Nitrate: 0 > > > > > > > > Nitrite: 0 > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 41293	From: Gail	Date: 6/23/2009
Subject: Re: 55 and 30 gallon tanks for sale question.

I got my 55 gallon with stand and lighting fixture for $75 at a yard sale last summer, and i bought my 20 gallon, that came with filtration, hood, cleaning brushes, food, decor, and heater for only $50. So, like I said everyone is out for a good deal. So far I have done pretty good at finding super deals :0 go me!! --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, Amber Berglund <amber@...> wrote: > > Gosh I feel jipped, our walmart sells the 55 gallon kits for just under > 200 dollars, granted I do get a 10% discount but I'd so prefer the > 150.00 to the 200 ;) LOL. > I also bought a used tank somewhat recently in town, it was a better > deal than walmart that's for sure ;) > I got a 125 gallon tank with powerfilter (eheim thermofilter), python > gravel vac with extra length so I can clean any tank in my house with it > and not switch sinks ;). I also got a bunch of miscellanious salt water > stuff and some food, a bunch of crushed coral gravel which is still > sitting outside on the porch. I also got the sump that they used but > it's sitting in the car still, LOL. I have a lot of items that I haven't > put to use and they're just taking up space I guess ;) Either way it was > a very good deal, I paid $250 and the deal was that I had to move it... > Oh and it also came with the steel metal stand and 4x4's to put it on so > it doesn't ruin the floor, and it came with a custom built hood with > custom CFL lighting. > > The better you price your tanks the quicker you will get rid of them, > just depends on who's looking at the time ;) I was looking at the right > time when the 125 gallon went up for sale, the next week someone was > trying to sell their 90 gallon for over 300 ;) LOL. > > Amber > > Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > > > > > > Give an itemized list of at least the big things, tank, stand, filter, > > lighting.. and we could give you a better idea on price. > > > > You should not expect anything more than about 1/2 of what you paid... or > > less. It's just the nature of used stuff and how long you have to sell it. > > With used stuff, one man's trash is another man's treasure so one person > > might be willing to pay a lot more than someone else. > > > > I've purchased entire used 10G setups, iron stand, tank, filter, heater, > > gravel and even fish for only $50.00 and other's I've gotten for less or > > even free. I've shopped used bigger tanks but found that most were > > overpriced. The last new tank that I bought was my 65G acrylic tank and I > > paid $125.00 for it. I built my own stand for around $20.00 and added a > > $100.00 Rena Filstar canister to it so that entire system, less the > > gravel, > > fish and decorations (all of which I already had) cost me under > > $250.00 and > > it was all NEW. > > > > A NEW 55G tank, lighting, filter and heater package, from Wal-Mart, sells > > for under $150.00 and a stand would go for $50 - $100, depending on model > > and features. I realize you might have paid more or have better stuff but > > to a new buyer, they would have to compare their options. > > > > Make sure you list it in as many free places as possible, including this > > group, Craigslist, Aquabid, the other 100's of fish forums that have > > classified sections, etc. Also email your local fish clubs, associations > > and societies. The more folks that see your free ad, the better your > > chances of finding the "right" buyer who would be willing to pay you a > > fair > > price. > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right > > side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On > > Behalf Of Beth Brownell > > Sent: Tuesday, June 23, 2009 4:45 PM > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: 55 and 30 gallon tanks for sale question. > > > > We're downsizing the house very soon like by the end of summer and the two > > tanks will not be able to fit the new residence very easily and it has > > been > > over two years since I had fish within either tanks and it's just > > something > > that we need to sell. > > I enjoyed the Angelfishes that I had in both tanks but when the 2007 ice > > storm hit and killed all of them, I couldn't risk having more and emptied > > both tanks and cleaned them. > > > > Beth > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>, toddswoman496861@ wrote: > > > why do you have to sell them? I do understand about the divorce? > > > > > > Kate Dale > > > -----Original Message----- > > > From: Beth F Brownell <spencer_creek_studios@> > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > Sent: Tue, Jun 23, 2009 10:52 am > > > Subject: [AquaticLife] 55 and 30 gallon tanks for sale question. > > > > > > What price should I list them for?I'm selling my tanks as our family > > > was hit with the sudden news of my dad's impeding divorce from my > > > mom.Both tanks will have everything that I had with it, including the > > > filters, gravel and all decorations.I'm thinking about $400.00 for > > > them both and it would have to be picked up at my home.Is that a good > > price for them both? > > > Thank you,Beth > > > > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 41294	From: Gail	Date: 6/23/2009
Subject: Re: 55 and 30 gallon tanks for sale question.

Do either one of these come with a stand? If you include the stand it will increase the value. But also keep in mind that with how the economy is; people are searching for the best bang for the buck. Or at least I am ;) good luck! gail --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, Beth F Brownell <spencer_creek_studios@...> wrote: > > What price should I list them for?I'm selling my tanks as our family was hit with the sudden news of my dad's impeding divorce from my mom.Both tanks will have everything that I had with it, including the filters, gravel and all decorations.I'm thinking about $400.00 for them both and it would have to be picked up at my home.Is that a good price for them both? > Thank you,Beth > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 41295	From: biG poppa	Date: 6/23/2009
Subject: Re: 55 and 30 gallon tanks for sale question.

I got my 55g with metal stand 2 hob 2 power jets a 250w heater  and 48 strip lights  lots of extra good for the best price in the world FREE. I also have another 55g tank sitting in my backyard.. --- On Tue, 6/23/09, Gail <clandestine662002@...> wrote: From: Gail <clandestine662002@...> Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: 55 and 30 gallon tanks for sale question. To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Date: Tuesday, June 23, 2009, 6:34 PM I got my 55 gallon with stand and lighting fixture for $75 at a yard sale last summer, and i bought my 20 gallon, that came with filtration, hood, cleaning brushes, food, decor, and heater for only $50. So, like I said everyone is out for a good deal. So far I have done pretty good at finding super deals :0 go me!! --- In AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com, Amber Berglund <amber@...> wrote: > > Gosh I feel jipped, our walmart sells the 55 gallon kits for just under > 200 dollars, granted I do get a 10% discount but I'd so prefer the > 150.00 to the 200 ;) LOL. > I also bought a used tank somewhat recently in town, it was a better > deal than walmart that's for sure ;) > I got a 125 gallon tank with powerfilter (eheim thermofilter) , python > gravel vac with extra length so I can clean any tank in my house with it > and not switch sinks ;). I also got a bunch of miscellanious salt water > stuff and some food, a bunch of crushed coral gravel which is still > sitting outside on the porch. I also got the sump that they used but > it's sitting in the car still, LOL. I have a lot of items that I haven't > put to use and they're just taking up space I guess ;) Either way it was > a very good deal, I paid $250 and the deal was that I had to move it... > Oh and it also came with the steel metal stand and 4x4's to put it on so > it doesn't ruin the floor, and it came with a custom built hood with > custom CFL lighting. > > The better you price your tanks the quicker you will get rid of them, > just depends on who's looking at the time ;) I was looking at the right > time when the 125 gallon went up for sale, the next week someone was > trying to sell their 90 gallon for over 300 ;) LOL. > > Amber > > Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > > > > > > Give an itemized list of at least the big things, tank, stand, filter, > > lighting.. and we could give you a better idea on price. > > > > You should not expect anything more than about 1/2 of what you paid... or > > less. It's just the nature of used stuff and how long you have to sell it. > > With used stuff, one man's trash is another man's treasure so one person > > might be willing to pay a lot more than someone else. > > > > I've purchased entire used 10G setups, iron stand, tank, filter, heater, > > gravel and even fish for only $50.00 and other's I've gotten for less or > > even free. I've shopped used bigger tanks but found that most were > > overpriced. The last new tank that I bought was my 65G acrylic tank and I > > paid $125.00 for it. I built my own stand for around $20.00 and added a > > $100.00 Rena Filstar canister to it so that entire system, less the > > gravel, > > fish and decorations (all of which I already had) cost me under > > $250.00 and > > it was all NEW. > > > > A NEW 55G tank, lighting, filter and heater package, from Wal-Mart, sells > > for under $150.00 and a stand would go for $50 - $100, depending on model > > and features. I realize you might have paid more or have better stuff but > > to a new buyer, they would have to compare their options. > > > > Make sure you list it in as many free places as possible, including this > > group, Craigslist, Aquabid, the other 100's of fish forums that have > > classified sections, etc. Also email your local fish clubs, associations > > and societies. The more folks that see your free ad, the better your > > chances of finding the "right" buyer who would be willing to pay you a > > fair > > price. > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com <http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com> > > (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right > > side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com > > <mailto:AquaticLife %40yahoogroups. com> > > [mailto:AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com > > <mailto:AquaticLife %40yahoogroups. com>] On > > Behalf Of Beth Brownell > > Sent: Tuesday, June 23, 2009 4:45 PM > > To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com <mailto:AquaticLife %40yahoogroups. com> > > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: 55 and 30 gallon tanks for sale question. > > > > We're downsizing the house very soon like by the end of summer and the two > > tanks will not be able to fit the new residence very easily and it has > > been > > over two years since I had fish within either tanks and it's just > > something > > that we need to sell. > > I enjoyed the Angelfishes that I had in both tanks but when the 2007 ice > > storm hit and killed all of them, I couldn't risk having more and emptied > > both tanks and cleaned them. > > > > Beth > > --- In AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com > > <mailto:AquaticLife %40yahoogroups. com>, toddswoman496861@ wrote: > > > why do you have to sell them? I do understand about the divorce? > > > > > > Kate Dale > > > -----Original Message----- > > > From: Beth F Brownell <spencer_creek_ studios@> > > > To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com <mailto:AquaticLife %40yahoogroups. com> > > > Sent: Tue, Jun 23, 2009 10:52 am > > > Subject: [AquaticLife] 55 and 30 gallon tanks for sale question. > > > > > > What price should I list them for?I'm selling my tanks as our family > > > was hit with the sudden news of my dad's impeding divorce from my > > > mom.Both tanks will have everything that I had with it, including the > > > filters, gravel and all decorations. I'm thinking about $400.00 for > > > them both and it would have to be picked up at my home.Is that a good > > price for them both? > > > Thank you,Beth > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 41296	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 6/23/2009
Subject: Re: Tap water Baseline testing, first test.

My grandma made the Hungarian goulash--REAL Hungarian goulash (gulyás). I'd pass along a recipe, but, apparently, I have not yet typed it up into my collection. She cooked everything from scratch. There was a filling she made, for pastry, that we have never found the recipe for, though we have been after my father to go through the recipe box, but my sister thinks she may have gotten very close to it. It was a walnut filling. Naturally, the recipes in the box are all in Hungarian. She kept guppies in a 20H. I still have a decoration from her tank. \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Lenny V. aka GoldLenny Sent: Tuesday, June 23, 2009 7:12 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Tap water Baseline testing, first test. Mmmmm... my mom use to make goulash... or at least, that's what she called it. It was GOOD! It was more like shell macaroni and meat sauce. It didn't look or sound like what your grandma use to make or what Wikipedia shows as the original goulash... http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Goulash Further reading down that Wiki-article has this SNIP which is more of what we had. "North American goulash In the United States and Canada, various adaptations have made the dish more suitable for local preferences, with the result that American "goulash" often bears little or no resemblance to the Hungarian original. The amount of peppers and/or paprika is often drastically reduced or even left out altogether. Ground beef frequently replaces stew beef in American goulashes, which reduces the cost as well as the cooking time. The meat and onions are then placed in the kettle, the other ingredients are added and the dish might be ready to serve in as little time as 20 to 30 minutes. American goulash is commonly finished by the addition of noodles or pasta, with elbow macaroni cited in most recipes.[21] This form of the dish was made popular by its inclusion in popular cookbooks in the twentieth century, such as Betty Crocker's Cookbook and is often noted as a comfort food."(END SNIP) Drain flies do not bite. They just buzz around and bother you.. and drink some of your coffee when you aren't looking. They're not much bigger than a pencil point and go down with a sip of coffee without much bother. ;-) Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Amber Berglund Sent: Tuesday, June 23, 2009 5:13 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Tap water Baseline testing, first test. They are fruit flies from the berry bushes behind my condo's, no one bothers to chop them down and I don't have time to go out there and chop down bushes that aren't mine ;) I just trim enough to where I can get past them, LOL. And I don't think there are any vacant units, we get these flies every summer as soon as the berries ripen, so I'm pretty sure they are something other than drain flies... Do drain flies bite? LOL. Your ex wife must've cooked like my grandma, everything left over in the fridge that wasn't expired was thrown into a stew and called goulash ;) LOL My mom/aunts/uncles used to throw their lunches into mailboxes on the way to school, guess they didn't like their sandwiches that grandma made 'em either ;) Amber Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > > > If they stay in the water too long to where they start to decay, that > could be an issue but not if they are picked out. Drop the carcasses > into your fish tanks. My fish love when we get a drain fly outbreak > and the drain flies take a dip in one of my tanks. > > However, what you are seeing is NOT likely fruit flies (unless you > know for certain that they are, if you have some very ripe fruit > around your condo) as drain flies are a common issue with apartment > complexes and condos down here and I'm sure in most areas. Especially > if you have a vacant unit nearby that has been vacant for a while. > > What happens is when the unit is vacant for too long, the water in the > various traps (the U pipe section under the sink and the "U-tube" > built into > a toilet) will dry up from evaporation and once that happens, the > drain flies can get into the sewer system. They lay their eggs in the > sludge build-up inside the pipes and the flies then go through their > life cycle, which ultimately brings them into swimming around as > little wormies/larvae in other peoples drain traps and then the little > wormies/larvae morph into the flies and they mysteriously come flying out of your drain. > Fortunately, > most species of drain flies have a very short lifespan. If you can get > your maintenance people to run water (or pour it if the water is > turned off on that unit) into ALL of the drains of the vacant units, > this will begin to stop the cycle. What you can personally do is cover > all of your drains to keep the flies from entering your place. I would > use an inverted plastic cup over the drains and also close the drain > lever (if there is one). Not much you can do with the toilet but > because the toilet has a glazed U built into it and the water volume > used to flush toilets usually flushes away any "build-up" from the > surface of the toilet, there usually isn't much sludge built up in the > U trap of a toilet as compared to the U traps of sinks and tubs. > > Please note that besides dive-bombing your bucket of baseline test > water, they will also dive-bomb a cup of coffee or any other open > container with liquid in it. As for my coffee, I just consider them > like a coffee ground and drink 'em down. They can't be any worse for > me than my ex-wife's cooking.. and I lived through that. LOL > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> (Links to any articles referenced in > above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels > and also under Archives by Year, Month) > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On Behalf Of Amber Berglund > Sent: Tuesday, June 23, 2009 10:19 AM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Tap water Baseline testing, first test. > > Will a few dead fruit flies hurt my baseline testing? LOL Good fly > traps though ;) I bet the fish agree when the fruit flies land in the > fish tanks, LOL. > > Amber

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 41297	From: greychildren	Date: 6/23/2009
Subject: my nasty gourami

Well like i told you guys several weeks ago i purchase 3 gold gourami's well the little nasty one nip all the fins from the other two gouramis a male and a female.. living one The nasty one left. i know there semi aggressive not aggressive... so should i take the gold gourami back to the FLS? He does not pic on the platys or head and tail tetras or should i get the kribs to calm him down? Jake

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 41298	From: grdnfan243@aol.com	Date: 6/23/2009
Subject: Brief question

What would be good tank mates for a pictus catfish? Is a puffer ok oh heck I dunno Steff **************Make your summer sizzle with fast and easy recipes for the grill. (http://food.aol.com/grilling?ncid=emlcntusfood00000004) [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 41299	From: pam andress	Date: 6/23/2009
Subject: Re: 55 and 30 gallon tanks for sale question.

Some of my finds: 55 gal tank, wood stand, gravel, hood with light and 2 goldfish $100.00 55 gal tank, wood stand, gravel, hood with light, heater, HOB filter $125.00 29 gal tank, wood stand, undergravel filter, hood with light $25.00 20 gal high tank, hood with light FREE I also look for deals. :) Pam To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com From: clandestine662002@... Date: Tue, 23 Jun 2009 22:34:55 +0000 Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: 55 and 30 gallon tanks for sale question. I got my 55 gallon with stand and lighting fixture for $75 at a yard sale last summer, and i bought my 20 gallon, that came with filtration, hood, cleaning brushes, food, decor, and heater for only $50. So, like I said everyone is out for a good deal. So far I have done pretty good at finding super deals :0 go me!! --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, Amber Berglund <amber@...> wrote: > > Gosh I feel jipped, our walmart sells the 55 gallon kits for just under > 200 dollars, granted I do get a 10% discount but I'd so prefer the > 150.00 to the 200 ;) LOL. > I also bought a used tank somewhat recently in town, it was a better > deal than walmart that's for sure ;) > I got a 125 gallon tank with powerfilter (eheim thermofilter), python > gravel vac with extra length so I can clean any tank in my house with it > and not switch sinks ;). I also got a bunch of miscellanious salt water > stuff and some food, a bunch of crushed coral gravel which is still > sitting outside on the porch. I also got the sump that they used but > it's sitting in the car still, LOL. I have a lot of items that I haven't > put to use and they're just taking up space I guess ;) Either way it was > a very good deal, I paid $250 and the deal was that I had to move it... > Oh and it also came with the steel metal stand and 4x4's to put it on so > it doesn't ruin the floor, and it came with a custom built hood with > custom CFL lighting. > > The better you price your tanks the quicker you will get rid of them, > just depends on who's looking at the time ;) I was looking at the right > time when the 125 gallon went up for sale, the next week someone was > trying to sell their 90 gallon for over 300 ;) LOL. > > Amber > > Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > > > > > > Give an itemized list of at least the big things, tank, stand, filter, > > lighting.. and we could give you a better idea on price. > > > > You should not expect anything more than about 1/2 of what you paid... or > > less. It's just the nature of used stuff and how long you have to sell it. > > With used stuff, one man's trash is another man's treasure so one person > > might be willing to pay a lot more than someone else. > > > > I've purchased entire used 10G setups, iron stand, tank, filter, heater, > > gravel and even fish for only $50.00 and other's I've gotten for less or > > even free. I've shopped used bigger tanks but found that most were > > overpriced. The last new tank that I bought was my 65G acrylic tank and I > > paid $125.00 for it. I built my own stand for around $20.00 and added a > > $100.00 Rena Filstar canister to it so that entire system, less the > > gravel, > > fish and decorations (all of which I already had) cost me under > > $250.00 and > > it was all NEW. > > > > A NEW 55G tank, lighting, filter and heater package, from Wal-Mart, sells > > for under $150.00 and a stand would go for $50 - $100, depending on model > > and features. I realize you might have paid more or have better stuff but > > to a new buyer, they would have to compare their options. > > > > Make sure you list it in as many free places as possible, including this > > group, Craigslist, Aquabid, the other 100's of fish forums that have > > classified sections, etc. Also email your local fish clubs, associations > > and societies. The more folks that see your free ad, the better your > > chances of finding the "right" buyer who would be willing to pay you a > > fair > > price. > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right > > side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On > > Behalf Of Beth Brownell > > Sent: Tuesday, June 23, 2009 4:45 PM > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: 55 and 30 gallon tanks for sale question. > > > > We're downsizing the house very soon like by the end of summer and the two > > tanks will not be able to fit the new residence very easily and it has > > been > > over two years since I had fish within either tanks and it's just > > something > > that we need to sell. > > I enjoyed the Angelfishes that I had in both tanks but when the 2007 ice > > storm hit and killed all of them, I couldn't risk having more and emptied > > both tanks and cleaned them. > > > > Beth > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>, toddswoman496861@ wrote: > > > why do you have to sell them? I do understand about the divorce? > > > > > > Kate Dale > > > -----Original Message----- > > > From: Beth F Brownell <spencer_creek_studios@> > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > Sent: Tue, Jun 23, 2009 10:52 am > > > Subject: [AquaticLife] 55 and 30 gallon tanks for sale question. > > > > > > What price should I list them for?I'm selling my tanks as our family > > > was hit with the sudden news of my dad's impeding divorce from my > > > mom.Both tanks will have everything that I had with it, including the > > > filters, gravel and all decorations.I'm thinking about $400.00 for > > > them both and it would have to be picked up at my home.Is that a good > > price for them both? > > > Thank you,Beth > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 41300	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 6/23/2009
Subject: Re: Tap water Baseline testing, first test.

Grandma's goulash had all sorts of odd things in it. Weird veggie combos like lima beans, corn, green beans, and carrots ;) Not to mention meat and elbow macaroni. Usually everyone covered it in ketchup ;) And these fruit flies bite, nasty little buggers, I hate them. I'd rather have drain flies ;). The fruit flies sound like they're about the same size as drain flies though, perhaps they're a distant relative in the bug family ;) Either way I'm sure the fish like to eat 'em and they're probably good for them too. There got it back on topic ;) Time to test the water parameters as well, will post shortly with those. Amber Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > > > Mmmmm... my mom use to make goulash... or at least, that's what she called > it. It was GOOD! It was more like shell macaroni and meat sauce. It > didn't look or sound like what your grandma use to make or what Wikipedia > shows as the original goulash... http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Goulash > <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Goulash> > > Further reading down that Wiki-article has this SNIP which is more of what > we had. > > "North American goulash > In the United States and Canada, various adaptations have made the > dish more > suitable for local preferences, with the result that American "goulash" > often bears little or no resemblance to the Hungarian original. The amount > of peppers and/or paprika is often drastically reduced or even left out > altogether. Ground beef frequently replaces stew beef in American > goulashes, > which reduces the cost as well as the cooking time. The meat and > onions are > then placed in the kettle, the other ingredients are added and the dish > might be ready to serve in as little time as 20 to 30 minutes. American > goulash is commonly finished by the addition of noodles or pasta, with > elbow > macaroni cited in most recipes.[21] This form of the dish was made popular > by its inclusion in popular cookbooks in the twentieth century, such as > Betty Crocker's Cookbook and is often noted as a comfort food."(END SNIP) > > Drain flies do not bite. They just buzz around and bother you.. and drink > some of your coffee when you aren't looking. They're not much bigger > than a > pencil point and go down with a sip of coffee without much bother. ;-) > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right > side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On > Behalf Of Amber Berglund > Sent: Tuesday, June 23, 2009 5:13 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Tap water Baseline testing, first test. > > They are fruit flies from the berry bushes behind my condo's, no one > bothers > to chop them down and I don't have time to go out there and chop down > bushes > that aren't mine ;) I just trim enough to where I can get past them, LOL. > And I don't think there are any vacant units, we get these flies every > summer as soon as the berries ripen, so I'm pretty sure they are something > other than drain flies... Do drain flies bite? LOL. > > Your ex wife must've cooked like my grandma, everything left over in the > fridge that wasn't expired was thrown into a stew and called goulash > ;) LOL > My mom/aunts/uncles used to throw their lunches into mailboxes on the > way to > school, guess they didn't like their sandwiches that grandma made 'em > either > ;) > > Amber > > Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > > > > > > If they stay in the water too long to where they start to decay, that > > could be an issue but not if they are picked out. Drop the carcasses > > into your fish tanks. My fish love when we get a drain fly outbreak > > and the drain flies take a dip in one of my tanks. > > > > However, what you are seeing is NOT likely fruit flies (unless you > > know for certain that they are, if you have some very ripe fruit > > around your condo) as drain flies are a common issue with apartment > > complexes and condos down here and I'm sure in most areas. Especially > > if you have a vacant unit nearby that has been vacant for a while. > > > > What happens is when the unit is vacant for too long, the water in the > > various traps (the U pipe section under the sink and the "U-tube" > > built into > > a toilet) will dry up from evaporation and once that happens, the > > drain flies can get into the sewer system. They lay their eggs in the > > sludge build-up inside the pipes and the flies then go through their > > life cycle, which ultimately brings them into swimming around as > > little wormies/larvae in other peoples drain traps and then the little > > wormies/larvae morph into the flies and they mysteriously come > flying out > of your drain. > > Fortunately, > > most species of drain flies have a very short lifespan. If you can get > > your maintenance people to run water (or pour it if the water is > > turned off on that unit) into ALL of the drains of the vacant units, > > this will begin to stop the cycle. What you can personally do is cover > > all of your drains to keep the flies from entering your place. I would > > use an inverted plastic cup over the drains and also close the drain > > lever (if there is one). Not much you can do with the toilet but > > because the toilet has a glazed U built into it and the water volume > > used to flush toilets usually flushes away any "build-up" from the > > surface of the toilet, there usually isn't much sludge built up in the > > U trap of a toilet as compared to the U traps of sinks and tubs. > > > > Please note that besides dive-bombing your bucket of baseline test > > water, they will also dive-bomb a cup of coffee or any other open > > container with liquid in it. As for my coffee, I just consider them > > like a coffee ground and drink 'em down. They can't be any worse for > > me than my ex-wife's cooking.. and I lived through that. LOL > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>> > (Links to any articles referenced in > > above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels > > and also under Archives by Year, Month) > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On Behalf Of Amber Berglund > > Sent: Tuesday, June 23, 2009 10:19 AM > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Tap water Baseline testing, first test. > > > > Will a few dead fruit flies hurt my baseline testing? LOL Good fly > > traps though ;) I bet the fish agree when the fruit flies land in the > > fish tanks, LOL. > > > > Amber > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 41301	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 6/23/2009
Subject: Re: 55 and 30 gallon tanks for sale question.

A used tank with all the accessories, I'd figure I'd pay about $1 per gallon, less if I can. If there were a stand with it, I'd pay more, depending on the type & quality of the stand, but not much more. As Lenny mentioned, do a little shopping around on complete 55 and 30 gallon setups to see what they are going for, and price yours at about half that price, with the realization, that someone like me may come around and try to get it for less than that. Look in the classified ads, both your local paper and the classified ad publications, and see what people are offering their stuff for. The last time I looked around, it was generally too much, these people thought they were competing with the stores, and would price the stuff way too high, but that may have changed. At least you will know what your competition is <g>. \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Beth Brownell Sent: Tuesday, June 23, 2009 5:45 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: 55 and 30 gallon tanks for sale question. We're downsizing the house very soon like by the end of summer and the two tanks will not be able to fit the new residence very easily and it has been over two years since I had fish within either tanks and it's just something that we need to sell. I enjoyed the Angelfishes that I had in both tanks but when the 2007 ice storm hit and killed all of them, I couldn't risk having more and emptied both tanks and cleaned them. Beth --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, toddswoman496861@... wrote: > why do you have to sell them? I do understand about the divorce? > > Kate Dale > -----Original Message----- > From: Beth F Brownell <spencer_creek_studios@...> > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Sent: Tue, Jun 23, 2009 10:52 am > Subject: [AquaticLife] 55 and 30 gallon tanks for sale question. > > What price should I list them for?I'm selling my tanks as our family was hit > with the sudden news of my dad's impeding divorce from my mom.Both tanks will > have everything that I had with it, including the filters, gravel and all > decorations.I'm thinking about $400.00 for them both and it would have to be > picked up at my home.Is that a good price for them both? > Thank you,Beth > > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 41302	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 6/23/2009
Subject: Re: Brief question

Do you have a big tank for the pictus? They will eat anything small enough to fit in their mouth, cuz it's food sized ;) The pictus grow to around 6 inches (going from memory could be wrong) I believe, you're going to need a decent sized tank for one, I'd recommend a 75 gallon or bigger. Amber grdnfan243@... wrote: > > > What would be good tank mates for a pictus catfish? Is a puffer ok oh > heck > I dunno > Steff > **************Make your summer sizzle with fast and easy recipes for the > grill. (http://food.aol.com/grilling?ncid=emlcntusfood00000004 > <http://food.aol.com/grilling?ncid=emlcntusfood00000004>) > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 41303	From: grdnfan243@aol.com	Date: 6/23/2009
Subject: Re: Brief question

was just going to get one with maybe a puffer if it would work in a 10 gal tank **************Make your summer sizzle with fast and easy recipes for the grill. (http://food.aol.com/grilling?ncid=emlcntusfood00000004) [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 41304	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 6/23/2009
Subject: Re: Tap water Baseline testing

Tapwater baseline testing 24 hours pH: 6.8 Ammonia: 0 Nitrite: 0 Nitrate: 0 GH: 50 ppm KH:1 drop, or close to 0 ppm again

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 41305	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 6/23/2009
Subject: Re: Brief question

No, a 10 gallon is way too small for these guys, he would be very unhappy there. Lenny's signature in all of his posts has a link to his blog with a guide on 10 gallon tank stocking suggestions if that will help you. Amber grdnfan243@... wrote: > > > was just going to get one with maybe a puffer if it would work in a 10 > gal > tank > **************Make your summer sizzle with fast and easy recipes for the > grill. (http://food.aol.com/grilling?ncid=emlcntusfood00000004 > <http://food.aol.com/grilling?ncid=emlcntusfood00000004>) > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 41306	From: grdnfan243@aol.com	Date: 6/23/2009
Subject: Re: Brief question

thank you **************Make your summer sizzle with fast and easy recipes for the grill. (http://food.aol.com/grilling?ncid=emlcntusfood00000004) [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 41307	From: bill 1433	Date: 6/23/2009
Subject: Re: Tap water Baseline testing

Amber,   If you don't mind?  The name or manufacture of the test kit your using please?   Bill --- On Tue, 6/23/09, Amber Berglund <amber@...> wrote: From: Amber Berglund <amber@...> Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Tap water Baseline testing To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Date: Tuesday, June 23, 2009, 9:58 PM Tapwater baseline testing 24 hours pH: 6.8 Ammonia: 0 Nitrite: 0 Nitrate: 0 GH: 50 ppm KH:1 drop, or close to 0 ppm again ------------------------------------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the home page.  Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com to receive the digest, which includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com for the No E-Mail option where you will still be able to read messages on the group and post replies. Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com to receive individual e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 41308	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 6/23/2009
Subject: Re: Tap water Baseline testing

API master test kit and extra API test kits for GH and KH, everything is API. Amber bill 1433 wrote: > > > > Amber, > > If you don't mind? The name or manufacture of the test kit your using > please? > > Bill > > --- On Tue, 6/23/09, Amber Berglund <amber@... > <mailto:amber%40rose-fields.com>> wrote: > > From: Amber Berglund <amber@... > <mailto:amber%40rose-fields.com>> > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Tap water Baseline testing > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Date: Tuesday, June 23, 2009, 9:58 PM > > Tapwater baseline testing 24 hours > > pH: 6.8 > > Ammonia: 0 > Nitrite: 0 > Nitrate: 0 > GH: 50 ppm > KH:1 drop, or close to 0 ppm again > > ------------------------------------ > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. > ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> > PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT > important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message > MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- > <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. > > If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of unsubscribing, > you can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My > Membership" on the home page. > > Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:aquaticlife-digest%40yahoogroups.com> to receive the digest, > which includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email > > Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:aquaticlife-nomail%40yahoogroups.com> for the No E-Mail option > where you will still be able to read messages on the group and post > replies. > > Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:aquaticlife-normal%40yahoogroups.com> to receive individual > e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 41309	From: Donna Ransome	Date: 6/23/2009
Subject: Re: 55 and 30 gallon tanks for sale question.

I pay $1 per gallon for just the tank and I agree with Lenny, start at half the price of new for the other items if they are in perfect condition. Then decrease the price until it sells. _____ From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Steve Szabo Sent: Tuesday, June 23, 2009 9:46 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: 55 and 30 gallon tanks for sale question. A used tank with all the accessories, I'd figure I'd pay about $1 per gallon, less if I can. If there were a stand with it, I'd pay more, depending on the type & quality of the stand, but not much more. As Lenny mentioned, do a little shopping around on complete 55 and 30 gallon setups to see what they are going for, and price yours at about half that price, with the realization, that someone like me may come around and try to get it for less than that. Look in the classified ads, both your local paper and the classified ad publications, and see what people are offering their stuff for. The last time I looked around, it was generally too much, these people thought they were competing with the stores, and would price the stuff way too high, but that may have changed. At least you will know what your competition is <g>. \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Beth Brownell Sent: Tuesday, June 23, 2009 5:45 PM To: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: 55 and 30 gallon tanks for sale question. We're downsizing the house very soon like by the end of summer and the two tanks will not be able to fit the new residence very easily and it has been over two years since I had fish within either tanks and it's just something that we need to sell. I enjoyed the Angelfishes that I had in both tanks but when the 2007 ice storm hit and killed all of them, I couldn't risk having more and emptied both tanks and cleaned them. Beth --- In AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com, toddswoman496861@... wrote: > why do you have to sell them? I do understand about the divorce? > > Kate Dale > -----Original Message----- > From: Beth F Brownell <spencer_creek_studios@...> > To: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com > Sent: Tue, Jun 23, 2009 10:52 am > Subject: [AquaticLife] 55 and 30 gallon tanks for sale question. > > What price should I list them for?I'm selling my tanks as our family was hit > with the sudden news of my dad's impeding divorce from my mom.Both tanks will > have everything that I had with it, including the filters, gravel and all > decorations.I'm thinking about $400.00 for them both and it would have to be > picked up at my home.Is that a good price for them both? > Thank you,Beth > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 41310	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 6/23/2009
Subject: Re: Tap water Baseline testing

So your pH has gone up from 6.5 or 6.6 to 6.8 so far, probably due to outgasing of CO2. Ammonia, nitrite, nitrate and KH stayed the same so far. The GH dropped from "around 100ppm" to 50ppm, so far. Lets see where the next 24 hours takes you. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Amber Berglund Sent: Tuesday, June 23, 2009 8:58 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Tap water Baseline testing Tapwater baseline testing 24 hours pH: 6.8 Ammonia: 0 Nitrite: 0 Nitrate: 0 GH: 50 ppm KH:1 drop, or close to 0 ppm again Initial test results copy/pasted from first post... First baseline testing for my tap water: pH: 6.5 or 6.6 hard to tell KH: I'm not sure how to read this one, it only takes 1 drop for the water to turn yellow, does that mean I'm somewhere near 0 ppm? The chart says 0-3 drops is 0-50 ppm... GH: Approximately 100 ppm Ammonia: 0 Nitrate: 0 Nitrite: 0

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 41311	From: nicurns@bellsouth.net	Date: 6/23/2009
Subject: Re: ANGELFISH, Once again

There are black Angels on AquaBid currently. 10 for around $55.00 James S. --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "jett07002" <jett07002@...> wrote: > > Ray, \\Steve//, Lenny and anyone else interested in Angelfish. > > I asked once a long time ago, and now I am asking again. Have any of you guys run across any real BLACK angels like we used to have back in the 80s early 90s? > > Since I have asked back then, and all (Ray, \\Steve//, and Lenny) have graciously answered in the negative, I am still searching for a comeback on the black angel as they were back then. > > I have run across some angels where the black color has "really been improved" according to the folks trying to sell them. Maybe my eyes are starting to fail me, but they do not look the same to me. > > joe t >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 41312	From: anallafamily.2001	Date: 6/23/2009
Subject: Angels Please help???

Im new to the group so just let me know if I say or do something not right...... My Question.... I wanted to start up an angel tank so i have a 55gal set up.. I keep buying 5 angels at a time and they keep dyeing slowly but surely.. I think altogether i have bought 16 Angels and I have managed to get 2 to live for at least 6 days now. I have plenty of filtration and water flow, I have ph at 6.5 and water is all testing ok... So what am I doing wrong? and should I go get more since I got 2 to live uhhhhhh What do I do I feel like I want to give up but I really thought they were such a beautiful fish. Please Help Jo..

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 41313	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 6/23/2009
Subject: Re: Angels Please help???

What are your other tests that you are running on the tank? Also we will need those results to properly "guess" at what the problem might be. How long has the tank been set up and running for? Amber anallafamily.2001 wrote: > > > Im new to the group so just let me know if I say or do something not > right...... > My Question.... I wanted to start up an angel tank so i have a 55gal > set up.. I keep buying 5 angels at a time and they keep dyeing slowly > but surely.. I think altogether i have bought 16 Angels and I have > managed to get 2 to live for at least 6 days now. I have plenty of > filtration and water flow, I have ph at 6.5 and water is all testing > ok... So what am I doing wrong? and should I go get more since I got 2 > to live uhhhhhh What do I do I feel like I want to give up but I > really thought they were such a beautiful fish. > Please Help Jo.. > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 41314	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 6/23/2009
Subject: Re: Brief question

For a 10G tank, here's a LONG guideline http://goldlenny.blogspot.com/2007/03/haileys-10-gallon-tank-stocking-list.h tml with lots of options for stocking a 10G tank but the Pictus Catfish is definitely NOT suitable for a 10G. Double and triple check the scientific name at the store to make sure you are getting something that is suitable. Here's a good care sheet on one species of Dwarf Puffers. http://www.badmanstropicalfish.com/profiles/profile93.html They should be kept in a species only tank with around 3G for each 1" fish as they can be very aggressive little buggers. Lots of plants to separate territories will help keep them from fighting. You'll see that Hailey's research recommends that you have 1 male and 3-4 females in a 10G tank. That would be a preferred mix. If you end up with too many males and not enough females, fighting could be much worse. Pictus Catfish grow to 8" long and here's a good profile/care sheet on them. http://fish.mongabay.com/species/Pimelodus_pictus.html You would need at least a 4' long tank, maybe a 55G tank for the Pictus Catfish and they are nocturnal predators and would eat the smaller fish... ask Amber about nocturnal predatory catfish. They don't like hamburger.. they go for the Filet Mignon and Prime Rib type fish. ;-) Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Amber Berglund Sent: Tuesday, June 23, 2009 9:00 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Brief question No, a 10 gallon is way too small for these guys, he would be very unhappy there. Lenny's signature in all of his posts has a link to his blog with a guide on 10 gallon tank stocking suggestions if that will help you. Amber grdnfan243@... wrote: > > > was just going to get one with maybe a puffer if it would work in a 10 > gal tank

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 41315	From: Raymond Wetzel	Date: 6/23/2009
Subject: Re: ANGELFISH, Once again

At first glance, these look fairly good, but then it's really hard to say as they can't be seen properly. The lighting is coming from the top (or top -- rear) and there's no lighting on the side. I seem to see what appears to be some silver in the bellies of at least a few fish, but again, without proper side lighting on them, I can't tell for sure. I do see that all have lace, see-through caudal (tail) fins -- they are not solid black. Other than that, I would reserve judgement on them until I could see them with light on their sides. Ray --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "nicurns@..." <james_kristi@...> wrote: > > There are black Angels on AquaBid currently. 10 for around $55.00 > > James S. > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "jett07002" <jett07002@> wrote: > > > > Ray, \\Steve//, Lenny and anyone else interested in Angelfish. > > > > I asked once a long time ago, and now I am asking again. Have any of you guys run across any real BLACK angels like we used to have back in the 80s early 90s? > > > > Since I have asked back then, and all (Ray, \\Steve//, and Lenny) have graciously answered in the negative, I am still searching for a comeback on the black angel as they were back then. > > > > I have run across some angels where the black color has "really been improved" according to the folks trying to sell them. Maybe my eyes are starting to fail me, but they do not look the same to me. > > > > joe t > > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 41316	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 6/23/2009
Subject: Re: Angels Please help???

Tell us more about your fish keeping experience and more details like a timeline/history of how long you have been trying to get this tank to work. What are the water parameters at the store where you are buying the fish or where they were born/raised? Is your tank water naturally at 6.5 pH or are you using any chemicals to alter you pH? What are your other water parameters for ammonia, nitrite, nitrate? How are you acclimating the fish from the bag to your tank? Since they are dying so fast, it's likely due to some kind of shock issue, pH shock, osmotic shock, temperature shock, etc.... or it could be something in your water.... or it could be that your surviving two angelfish simply do NOT want any other tank mates and are harassing the new fish and since the new fish are already stressed from the shipping and moving, they succumb more easily. Below my sig is a questionnaire that I have on my blog that would give us even more info or to help guide you in what kind of information is helpful in diagnosing sick/dying fish. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) ---------- We understand that if you are having a problem, especially one resulting is sick fish, you want help as soon as possible. In order to give you answers as quickly as we can, we need you to provide answers to as many of the questions below as possible, especially test readings. It would be best if you cut and paste this entire set of questions into your first post to be sure you answer each inquiry. Test readings (in numbers) for: Ammonia: Nitrite: Nitrate: pH: GH: KH: Also post your tap water baseline numbers if known. If not known, now would be a good time to start finding out what they are. See my article on this page http://goldlenny.blogspot.com/2007/05/find-your-tap-source-water-baseline.ht ml Temperature: Tank size: Tank inhabitants (number and type of fish or other aquatic life): Water change amount and when the last one was done: Filter maintenance and what exactly did you do: How long the tank has been set up: Water or filter additives or pH adjusters used: Recent (within 2 weeks) changes or additions to the tank: Full description of the problem you have been having, including any odd behavior of the inhabitants or appearance of the tank or inhabitants.some common examples are: Fish behavior- separating from school hiding breathing rapidly hanging at surface sitting on bottom having difficulty swimming scraping body on ornaments/plants/gravel Fish appearance- pale or different in color (describe) raised spots/tufts of cottony material/cloudy patches on skin fins fraying chunks missing from fins open sores bent spine Tank appearance- whitish cloudy water greenish cloudy water excessive algae (specify color) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of anallafamily.2001 Sent: Tuesday, June 23, 2009 10:07 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Angels Please help??? Im new to the group so just let me know if I say or do something not right...... My Question.... I wanted to start up an angel tank so i have a 55gal set up.. I keep buying 5 angels at a time and they keep dyeing slowly but surely.. I think altogether i have bought 16 Angels and I have managed to get 2 to live for at least 6 days now. I have plenty of filtration and water flow, I have ph at 6.5 and water is all testing ok... So what am I doing wrong? and should I go get more since I got 2 to live uhhhhhh What do I do I feel like I want to give up but I really thought they were such a beautiful fish. Please Help Jo..

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 41317	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 6/23/2009
Subject: Re: Angels Please help???

Angels will not do well with a high water flow. If you do some research, you will note that they are found among plants and roots in slow moving, or pretty much, non-moving waters. Slow your water flow, and you should do better with them. You do not give us any water parameters. What is your water temperature? pH? Ammonia, nitrates, nitrites? When you purchase the fish, do they look healthy? Are they eating? Do they have sunken bellies? These are just a few of the questions that are of importance when trying to diagnose your problem, but more than enough to get started with. \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of anallafamily.2001 Sent: Tuesday, June 23, 2009 11:07 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Angels Please help??? Im new to the group so just let me know if I say or do something not right...... My Question.... I wanted to start up an angel tank so i have a 55gal set up.. I keep buying 5 angels at a time and they keep dyeing slowly but surely.. I think altogether i have bought 16 Angels and I have managed to get 2 to live for at least 6 days now. I have plenty of filtration and water flow, I have ph at 6.5 and water is all testing ok... So what am I doing wrong? and should I go get more since I got 2 to live uhhhhhh What do I do I feel like I want to give up but I really thought they were such a beautiful fish. Please Help Jo..

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 41318	From: William	Date: 6/23/2009
Subject: Re: Angels Please help???

What is the time from getting the fish until you get home and how do you transport them (is it hot or cold out and do you insulate them on the way home?) When you get home how do you acclimate them to the tank, do you put them in in a quarantine tank for a few weeks before you put them in your display tank?Do you just pore them in the tank when you get home or do you let them float and add water from the tank into the bag? Does the lfs keep their angelfish for more than a few days or do they loose them too? These are important questions that will help to help you to keep angelfish successfully. --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Steve Szabo" <steve@...> wrote: > > Angels will not do well with a high water flow. If you do some research, > you will note that they are found among plants and roots in slow moving, > or pretty much, non-moving waters. Slow your water flow, and you should > do better with them. > > You do not give us any water parameters. What is your water temperature? > pH? Ammonia, nitrates, nitrites? > > When you purchase the fish, do they look healthy? Are they eating? Do > they have sunken bellies? > > These are just a few of the questions that are of importance when trying > to diagnose your problem, but more than enough to get started with. > > \\Steve// > > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] > On Behalf Of anallafamily.2001 > Sent: Tuesday, June 23, 2009 11:07 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Subject: [AquaticLife] Angels Please help??? > > Im new to the group so just let me know if I say or do something not > right...... > My Question.... I wanted to start up an angel tank so i have a 55gal set > up.. I keep buying 5 angels at a time and they keep dyeing slowly but > surely.. I think altogether i have bought 16 Angels and I have managed > to get 2 to live for at least 6 days now. I have plenty of filtration > and water flow, I have ph at 6.5 and water is all testing ok... So what > am I doing wrong? and should I go get more since I got 2 to live uhhhhhh > What do I do I feel like I want to give up but I really thought they > were such a beautiful fish. > Please Help Jo.. >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 41319	From: Jasmine	Date: 6/23/2009
Subject: Re: Angels

Hi Ray. I might add – I found it extremely hard falling asleep last night – was thinking about the angelfishes, then again – it could have been the irritant of my coughing keeping me awake (I have a cold at present). The funny thing is, the Kio has been with us the longest. We felt bad that it was on its own and have been keeping an eye out for a nice match for it but decided to get two mature angels which looked like they had paired off (which was the marble and sliver female) and 4 baby angels to keep them all company. Once we introduced them into the main tank, the Kio took to the marble and chased the silver female away – it was so strange to see. We have seen the female Kio and female Silver in lip tugger-ward twice. I don't believe it is just a black dot on the female silver. The is a slight curvature in the location of the dot but because it keeps getting chased, it doesn't stay still long enough to obtain a good shot. I'm not going to worry too much about it at present as it doesn't seem to be doing the fish any harm. Jasmine --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Raymond Wetzel" <sevenspringss@...> wrote: > > Back again Jasmine, Looks like I was writing my last reply to you as you were send these last 4 pics and this message. I just now approved your latest pics, then looked them over. Yep, the "exiled" Silver Angel IS a female, as I first thought. BTW, did you happen to add this fish after you already had the pair (Marble & Koi)? > > I had a look at the area you circled on this fish, and if it were just a marking as that triangle-shaped spots appears to be on the one side, I'd say that, that's ALL it is, since today's mixed traits can be expected to show an odd spot here and there at times. But if it's protruding out the other side, it would seem to be some sort of a growth. My older monitor does not show the protrusion well enough for me to see it well. Couldn't tell you what it is, and it would be premature at this stage for me to say it's some kind of internal parasite, but it is odd. Unless someone else can diagnose it, I wouldn't tell you to try to treat it -- it's just good that it's not bothering the fish. You might keep an eye on it, but still, without knowing the cause there's little you could do for it if it protrudes more -- unless it manifests itself as a pimple which you could then use a needle for, along with a topical antibiotic. Ray > > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Jasmine" <adonaikam@> wrote: > > > > Hi Ray > > > > I've managed to get two shots of the 'exiled' angel (right profile and left profile). > > > > It certainly doesn't have the same 'hump' on its head as the male you pointed out. I always thought the hump may have been part of the type of angel it was - silly me. > > > > Several weeks ago we happen to notice that this same angel has a black pimple like mark - see photo titled 'Exiled angel_03 23.06.09'. This black mark looks like it is protruding out of the other side of the fish - see 'Exiled angel_02 23.06.09'. The mark doesn't seem to be causing any problems but I'm sure it has grown slightly since we first noticed it about 2 months ago. It really reminds me of a black head pimple. > > > > I can't get a good shot of that area on the angel (as it hides most of the time). When we get our other tank set up, the eco system all ready and the paired off angels transferred into that tank - I might be able to get a better shot then. > > > > Thanks again for you help and advice. > > Jasmine > > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 41320	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 6/23/2009
Subject: Re: my nasty gourami

Remind us what size tank again? I kind of remember your post and I remember a few of us mentioning that Gouramis can be every where from peaceful to aggressive with the majority of them being on the aggressive end of the scale. They are BIG fish (6" long but 2.5" to 3" tall). My Tank Stocking Guideline Article suggests at least 18G per fish (for that size fish) with at least a 4' long tank for them, so you could only have three of them in a 55G tank. I'm guessing the other two injured Gouramis did not make it? It's up to you on whether you take him/her back or not. The downside of keeping him is that he may decide the tank belongs to him and any new fish you add may also be bullied. Sometimes, if you were to take him out, rearrange the tank, add the new fish and then reintroduce him, that would break his Master Of The Tank syndrome but this is not a guarantee. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of greychildren Sent: Tuesday, June 23, 2009 7:41 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] my nasty gourami Well like i told you guys several weeks ago i purchase 3 gold gourami's well the little nasty one nip all the fins from the other two gouramis a male and a female.. living one The nasty one left. i know there semi aggressive not aggressive... so should i take the gold gourami back to the FLS? He does not pic on the platys or head and tail tetras or should i get the kribs to calm him down? Jake

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 41321	From: Jasmine	Date: 6/23/2009
Subject: Re: ANGELFISH, Once again

WOW, your angelfish sound really nice. Do you have any photos of them? Jasmine --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Raymond Wetzel" <sevenspringss@...> wrote: > > Nice looking Angelfish you have, in that dark one, even though I couldn't call it a Black Angelfish. I'd have to call it a Black Lace with obvious Dark Marble mixed in. Still attractive though. > > Yes, unfortunately most of the solid black Angelfish have disappeared from the hobby. Even the "better" ones today are not pitch black and certainly not the velvety-black of years ago. Today's "Black" Angelfish show the dark black barring of the original wild type. > > When Joe's question on this was asked a while back, I thought I had replied I was breeding them, but then maybe I had posted something on that on another Forum. No longer seeing this solid velvet black Angel on the market, I was concerned enough to want to do something about it. Over the past years, I've been selectively line breeding Chocolate Angelfish to create full coverage of the pattern on the fish. At the same time, I've also been selectively line breeding double-dose (dark) Marbles, effectively getting to the point of having near-complete solid black in them. Then, more recently, I've been crossing these two lines and selectively breeding the result, which has given me the black coverage I've been looking for. A completely different way of obtaining the results, but there can be no solid black barring of the wild genes showing through. Ray > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Jasmine" <adonaikam@> wrote: > > > > I thought I had a really nice black angel - slightly different dorsal fin to all the rest of my angels but, when I tried taking photos of it tonight, the camera showed me 'tourer shell' colours reflecting off the angel. > > > > I haven't seen any pitch black ones except in books. > > > > Good luck in finding one. > > Jasmine > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "jett07002" <jett07002@> wrote: > > > > > > Ray, \\Steve//, Lenny and anyone else interested in Angelfish. > > > > > > I asked once a long time ago, and now I am asking again. Have any of you guys run across any real BLACK angels like we used to have back in the 80s early 90s? > > > > > > Since I have asked back then, and all (Ray, \\Steve//, and Lenny) have graciously answered in the negative, I am still searching for a comeback on the black angel as they were back then. > > > > > > I have run across some angels where the black color has "really been improved" according to the folks trying to sell them. Maybe my eyes are starting to fail me, but they do not look the same to me. > > > > > > joe t > > > > > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 41322	From: Steve Biondi	Date: 6/23/2009
Subject: Re: Severum fungus?

Yo,Lenny , Steve and group Would you take a peek at my photos in the album called Steve's Severums? Any ideas as to the best cure are greatly appreciated. Steve gave me a suggestion before I posted the pictures. Thanks, Steve _____ From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Lenny V. aka GoldLenny Sent: Tuesday, June 23, 2009 3:55 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Severum fungus? Steve, Did you try to email the pics? If so, they will not come through. This group does not allow attachments (as most groups shouldn't as it's too easy for viruses/malware to be spread that way). In order to show us your pics, you will need to upload them to your own online photo album (Flickr, Webshots, etc.) and give us the links or you can upload them to the Group's Photos section, into your own folder and then let us know so we can go look at them. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Steve Biondi Sent: Tuesday, June 23, 2009 1:59 PM To: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Severum fungus? Hi All, Here are the pictures of my green Severum that appears to have some fungus near the gills. I am hoping that you gurus can recognize it and tell me what I should use to treat it. Thanks for all your help. Steve [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 41323	From: Jasmine	Date: 6/23/2009
Subject: Re: Sexing Angelfish, was: Pleco verse Bristlenose

Hi Ray I guess I wasn't use to not seeing the photos get filed straight away. I normally would go back and check to see if I had posted it first before attempting to add another one (I get distracted by a cat at times)  I updated the name on the one I had posted as female to `Male Marble Angle' – I wasn't sure if i could updated the photo captions but played around and fun that I could – thanks. Due to the current accommodation sizing in the house, I think I would like to see the parents raise the frys (do you call baby angles Frys?) on their own if possible. We currently have a 3foot tank (that is our main tank) and a 18" length tank which is our hospital/quarantine tank. We currently have it set up for the last lot of fish / plants we purchased. We quarantine them for a week, they all looked good however, while transferring the last of the fishes (Clown loaches) to the main tank – thats when I spoted `white spot'. I had a closer look at the tetras we purchased and silver sharks – they had white spots on them also. I ended up losing all my clown loaches (including the ones in the main tank because I had infected the tank too) The main tank is fine now though. The two tertras that are left look healthy now, its been over a week since the spots have gone. The plants are thriving, roots and stems and leaves coming out everywhere. So was thinking of moving them over to the main tank over the weekend (about 4 days time). Then we will bring in the spare aquarium from the garage and set it up for the Koi and Marble angel fish. So should we tank the juvies out of the tank (after 4 weeks) leaving the parents by themselves? Would we be able to put the juvies in the main tank with the other fish or would we be looking at getting another fish tank? Jasmine --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Raymond Wetzel" <sevenspringss@...> wrote: > > I figured as much on the dupes. No problem, that's all part of why we first approve them before they're filed in Photos. I thought I might change the caption on your male Angel to state just that (instead of your believing it's a female. In this way, anyone looking at that pic in the future won't be mislead. > > Yes, always best to have the pair in a tank of their own. Before doing so, you need to decide if you're going to pull the eggs out and raise them by themselves (which would require another tank) or whether you want to try to have the pair raise them (which would require a larger tank to accomodate all the fish). Please know that, if you decide on having the parents raise them (if they will), you will still need to move the juveniles to a large tank of their own, at about 4 weeks of age, and well before selling size. Otherwise, a minimum tank size for just the pair would be a 20 gallon high, although they'd be more comfortable in a 29. > > To leave the juveniles with the parents after 4 weeks is to invite the inevitable mutilation of the pair's fins and skin by the juvies as they attempt to eat the slime secretion that the parents produce, in addition to what you'd already be feeding them -- similar to how Discus feed (this is called "contacting" in Cichlids) -- only, Angelfish parents cannot produce nearly as much body mucous. Instead, their fins get descimated, and if allowed to continue, their skin doesn't fair much better. Ray

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 41324	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 6/23/2009
Subject: Re: Severum fungus?

Both Ray and I stated you should start with the Furan Two immediately. If that doesn't do the trick and if it starts looking to be bacterial (Flexibacter Columnaris), then the added antibiotic, Kanamycin, might be needed but from looking at your pics, I do not see any of the tell-tale redness associated with Columnaris but it doesn't always present itself right away. I also am not sure it's definitely a fungus but will have to rely on you for that since pictures are never as good as looking at something first hand. The picture that is more from the side view kind of looks like it is fungal but the front view almost looks like it could be a growth coming out from under the operculum (gill cover) and protrudes out a LOT, almost like it's a cyst or something like that. It does not appear very fuzzy to me like a fungus would appear but once again, it could just be the pictures. I even blew up the pictures 400% (using the IE8 magnifier - bottom right of an IE window frame) and it looked even more like a cyst protruding out from under the gill cover but I could then see some fuzziness right above the "cyst" on the edge of the gill cover. Of course, blowing up the picture that large made the entire pic more grainy so I'm still not sure if the fuzziness was from the disease or the photo quality. One of the reasons it looks like a cyst is that you can see a bulbous shape, actually looks like two bulbous shapes, and the upper one is reflecting the lighting off of it from the flash. Also, the two bulbous shapes create a distinct circular shadow on the skin of the fish behind the bulbous shapes. If it was a fungus, there would not be a distinct and defined shadow like that. I then blew it up to 600% (using the Custom menu) and at 600%, I could start to see some pinkish/reddish coloration on the front lower lobe of what I am calling a cyst. This "cyst" that I am seeing does not preclude what you might be seeing as a fungus since the cyst could be causing or a result of another injury and that other injury could be infested with the fungus. Unfortunately, the bigger I blow up the image, the grainier it gets which makes seeing fuzz a lot harder. After seeing all of this, I would go with the Furan Two and the antibiotic treatment since you may have to aspirate this cyst if it continues to grow and since I do see some pinkish/reddish area, that lends itself to a bacterial infection which might warrant an antibiotic treatment. Hopefully Ray, \\Steve// or one of the many other folks familiar with disease issues will show up and give a better diagnosis. DISCLAIMER - I'm not a doctor but I did play doctor when I was a kid. Gee, I sure miss the neighbor girl who played nurse with me. ;-) Hey, that's the best I can do to try and lighten things up and on short notice. LOL No time for a song tonight. OK.. maybe a short start to the chorus... Doctor, Doctor, please don't be mum I got a bad case of a sick Severum! Someone else has to finish that one. ;-) Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Steve Biondi Sent: Tuesday, June 23, 2009 11:52 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Severum fungus? Yo,Lenny , Steve and group Would you take a peek at my photos in the album called Steve's Severums? Any ideas as to the best cure are greatly appreciated. Steve gave me a suggestion before I posted the pictures. Thanks, Steve _____ From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Lenny V. aka GoldLenny Sent: Tuesday, June 23, 2009 3:55 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Severum fungus? Steve, Did you try to email the pics? If so, they will not come through. This group does not allow attachments (as most groups shouldn't as it's too easy for viruses/malware to be spread that way). In order to show us your pics, you will need to upload them to your own online photo album (Flickr, Webshots, etc.) and give us the links or you can upload them to the Group's Photos section, into your own folder and then let us know so we can go look at them. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Steve Biondi Sent: Tuesday, June 23, 2009 1:59 PM To: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Severum fungus? Hi All, Here are the pictures of my green Severum that appears to have some fungus near the gills. I am hoping that you gurus can recognize it and tell me what I should use to treat it. Thanks for all your help. Steve

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 41325	From: Raymond Wetzel	Date: 6/23/2009
Subject: Re: Angels Please help???

Hello Jo, So sorry you are running into this frustrating experience in trying to keep Angelfish, when the species is not difficult to maintain. Ordinarily, we would ask just what you meant (and will still do this) when you say that your water is all testing okay. When giving us any of your data concerning your water parameters, we prefer to have number to be evaluate your circumstances, and the actual test results in ppm (parts per million) best reflect your actual conditions. If you could give us your test results for pH, ammonia, nitrite and even nitrate, it could be a great help. If you can provide results for temporary hardness (KH) and total/general hardness (GH), this may be of further assistance to us -- the more information, the better. BUT, in this particular case, I do not believe it's your water quality that's at fault, even though we need to rule that out. Most unfortunately, new prospective Angelfish hobbyists will run into this situation when buying from retailers who prefer obtaining their Angelfish stocks indiscriminantly, possibly in an effort to save money or perhaps just for the convenience. However, in buying in essence what can be established as inferior stock, I fail to see what they think they gain. Unfortunately too, the customer (you) is too often unsuspecting of this possibility and blame the deaths of these fish on themselves, when in truth it's the poor stock itself that these outlets continue to retail -- despite the many losses they themselves have with each re-stocking. These retailers know that they will not be alienating their customers, as these customers are completely unaware that this stock is inferior, and in their quest to maintain this beautiful species, they repeatedly buy new stock in hopes they can keep them alive. Some of the larger chain stores (and some smaller shops) operate in this manner, Walmart having been one of them until they gave up selling tropical fish; these stores continuing to buy their Angels only from preferred sources which may include a headquarter--designated distributor, a Florida fish farm, a local wholesaler that buys from either Florida or the Far East, or a Far East breeding establishment--exporter -- rather than a reputable domestic breeder. Now, getting to the root of this practice and its problem. Going back some 15 years or slightly more, there was a major outbreak of a horrific Angelfish Virus disease originating in the Far East, decimating Angelfish stocks there as well as in this country when it was introduced here through imports of that stock into this country. Many domestic Angelfish breeders in this country were wiped out or at least partially effected, not suspecting this problem, and mixed that stock with theirs. The problem didn't stop there in this country as a good number of the Florida fish farmers also introduced this diseased Asian stock of Angelfish to their hatcheries in efforts to strengthen their own stocks with "new blood," not yet knowing the consequences they would have to pay. Gradually, this disease was finally contained although never completely cured. Those Asian stocks that survived were strengthened by natural selection to be able to remain viable while still carrying th Virus as a latent disease always present but under control of these latest Angelfish's adapted immune systems. This same adaptation of the Angelfish's immune system to contain this Virus as of late, also emerged from those Florida fish farm's stocks which were similarly effected. As a result, most any Angelfish derived today from either those effected Florida fish farms or those Far Eastern hatchery/exporters carry this Virus as a weaker (as controlled now by these Angels' new but limited immunity), yet still viable disease still capable of overtaking the Angelfish as soon as receieves enough stress. This shared (but not mutually beneficial where the fish is concerned) existance is called "symbiosis," and is seen also in many Cichlids -- including Angelfish -- as Hexamita, where this protozoan resides in a latent condition in the fish's intestine, only to overtake the fish when the fish experiences sufficient stress for it to do so. So, now when these Angelfish (carrying this disease) reach your local fish store, they look fine at first and appear most healthy. However, the stress of shipping soon takes its toll over the next week as the disease now devastates these stressed and weakened fish. These fish are not expected to last much more than an average of 6 or 7 days as a result of what happens with them. Likewise, many (most?) of the same fish in these stores that stock them soon die also (they are KNOWN to fold up), but the storekeeper has still made his profit and has "satisfied" his customers, which causes them to keep coming back to those stores. If any of this rings a bell for you, you may finally be understanding what's happening with your Angelfish. A few, such as the two you have that survived so far will live for an undetermined period of time, but their days are still numbered (could live for another few weeks or so). If you still want to keep Angelfish, you cannot continue to buy them from this present source as they'll meet the same fate, nor can you add any other Angelfish to this tank from a different source as they'll become infected. I really hate to have to suggest this, and I don't know if you have any other species of fish presently in this tank, but before you add any more Angels -- and they MUST be from a reputable domestic breeder -- this tank and all its equipment must be disinfected after these two remaining Angels secumb. I hope this whole scenario of events as pertains to Angelfish has been at least enlightening for you, and will serve to assist you in the future (we'll still be here to help). I regret that since you most probably have introduced disease-carrying Angelfish unknowingly, that you'll have a long road ahead of you in maintaining your goal, but at least now you know what to expect. Please keep us posted, Ray --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "anallafamily.2001" <anallafamily.2001@...> wrote: > > I'm new to the group so just let me know if I say or do something not right...... > My Question.... I wanted to start up an angel tank so I have a 55gal set up.. I keep buying 5 angels at a time and they keep dying slowly but surely.. I think altogether I have bought 16 Angels and I have managed to get 2 to live for at least 6 days now. I have plenty of filtration and water flow, I have ph at 6.5 and water is all testing ok... So what am I doing wrong? and should I go get more since I got 2 to live uhhhhhh What do I do I feel like I want to give up but I really thought they were such a beautiful fish. > Please Help Jo.. >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 41326	From: Jasmine	Date: 6/23/2009
Subject: Re: Sexing Angelfish, was: Pleco verse Bristlenose

Is there a way we can neuter the angels to stop them from breeding LOL Our tank is 215L and our pair of angels are pecking at the UV filtration rod we placed in our tank recently. I'm suspecting, this will be where they will spawn. If your angels took over half of your tank (125gallons) what hope have the remaining fish we have going to survive LOL. We have an old TV unit to which we have been thinking of having a tank made to fit into that gap. But at this stage, its just talk. It would look nice though – I can post a photo of the unit if you like. Jasmine --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, Amber Berglund <amber@...> wrote: > > I can speak from experience that the Angel's do not live on any schedule > humans keep, LOL. Mine usually spawn at least once a month, sometimes > every couple of weeks if they're really in the mood. The babies never > survive as once they hatch they are quickly devoured by the parents, but > I think most of that reason is because they are in a mixed community > tank and the babies all look like food to the other fish, so the > parent's eat them first. > I wouldn't worry too much if they spawn before you go to move them, but > if they do be prepared for them to get even more aggressive to the other > fish, they will probably keep all the fish at a distance while they are > taking care of the eggs. Mine keep a whole half of the 125 gallon tank > to themselves, greedy buggers ;) LOL. If they still have eggs when you > have their tank ready for them you can either wait until they hatch or > the Angel's eat them all (they don't always get it right from the first > time, hehe). Mine ate their first few batches of eggs before they > hatched, I only saw the last batch hatch and I think that was something > like their 4th or 5th try. > It's quite fun to watch them take care of the eggs though, I can't wait > to see how well they do at raising their young when they're alone. > Oh speaking of Angel's... the stand is built for their new tank, but > unfortunately the hubby messed up a measurement and it needs slight > adjustment before I can use it (go figure, hehe). It also needs to be > painted, it's just bare steel for now, and it will rust if it doesn't > get painted. > > Amber >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 41327	From: Jasmine	Date: 6/23/2009
Subject: Re: Tap water Baseline testing, first test.

I have buckets with lids so to stop the cats and dog doing exactly that. Sometimes I place the buckets out on the picnic table to heat up the water so there is no need to use heaters. Placing the lid on the buckets tend to heat the water quicker too I've found. You could always place a towel over the bucket if you don't have lids. --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@...> wrote: > > The dechlor is NOT good for them and can cause digestive issues if consumed > BUT the bigger problem for your baseline testing is that their spit may > affect your pH. Saliva is very acidic. I'm not sure how much would be > needed to alter the pH and KH test results. Put the bucket up where the > doggie can't get to it and if it's only 1.25G of a 5G bucket, the cat should > not be able to get to it either, unless you have one of the rare, elusive > and thought to be extinct Giraffe Cat or Elephant Cat. ;-) > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right > side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) > > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On > Behalf Of Amber Berglund > Sent: Tuesday, June 23, 2009 10:20 AM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Tap water Baseline testing, first test. > > Oh... and another question will cats or dogs drinking out of the bucket > affect anything? I try to keep them out of it but a bucket of water seems to > fascinate all the pets in the house ;) Will the dechlor hurt them in any > way? > > Amber > > Amber Berglund wrote: > > > > > > Unfortunately I cannot have stuff shipped site to store from > > walmart.com, and I asked the hubby if they can order larger sized > > bottles than the tiny itty bitty ones they have now (tetra aquasafe). > > I was told no, because they don't sell enough of the normal aquasafe > > to warrant ordering a bigger bottle of it. Does that treat heavy metals? > > I also cannot order from drsfostersmith.com with my fed ex account > > number, they tell me "it's not possible" blah blah blah, little do > > they know I could email them a label for the stupid box but yet they > > argue with me in circles. They just don't want to do it basically. I > > could probably make a phone call and ask for a manager and eventually > > get my way if I was that pushy of a person, but I'm not ;) Maybe I can > > get the local "mom and pop" hardware and feed store to order me some > > bigger bottles of something cheep ;) I will have to ask her what she > > normally orders, I'm pretty sure I saw the tetra aquasafe there as well as > walmart. > > > > Amber > > > > Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > > > > > > > > > Almost ALL dechlor products treat for heavy metals. What is the > > > brand/product that is carried by your local Wal-Mart? Never mind, I > > > see they also sell the Jungle Start Right Water Conditioner and > > > after looking at DFS.com, the ingredients do not include the EDTA > > > tetrasodium salts used for the treatment of heavy metals by most > > > dechlor products. > > > > > > The Walmart.com site shows that they sell the Tetra AquaSafe > > > dechlor, which doesn't have the added Aloe Vera. The 16 oz. bottle > > > of Tetra AquaSafe is only $7.88. > > > http://www.walmart.com/catalog/product.do?product_id=3635396 > > <http://www.walmart.com/catalog/product.do?product_id=3635396> > > > <http://www.walmart.com/catalog/product.do?product_id=3635396 > > <http://www.walmart.com/catalog/product.do?product_id=3635396>> > > > Walmart.com also sells several API products, but NOT their Tap Water > > > Conditioner, which would be an even better price per gallon than the > > Tetra > > > AquaSafe. They also have the 16 oz. of Stress Coat for 7.88. > > > Here's a list of the other meds and water treatment products on > > > Walmart.com. > > > > > http://www.walmart.com/catalog/catalog.gsp?cat=202105&fromPageCatId=20 > > 2100&c > > <http://www.walmart.com/catalog/catalog.gsp?cat=202105&fromPageCatId=2 > > 02100&c> > > > > > > > <http://www.walmart.com/catalog/catalog.gsp?cat=202105&fromPageCatId=2 > > 02100&c > > <http://www.walmart.com/catalog/catalog.gsp?cat=202105&fromPageCatId=2 > > 02100&c>> > > > atNavId=202074 > > > > > > Considering the number of tanks that you have, you should order the > > gallon > > > size of API's Tap Water Conditioner from DrsFosterSmith.com, use > > > your account and then you won't have to use junk in your tanks for a > > > year or more. 16 oz. treats 9,600 gallons of water so a gallon would > > > treat close to 80,000 gallons of water. I think that would get you > > > through a year > > or so. > > > ;-) But to be sure, if you do weekly 25% PWC's on all of your tanks, > > > and my last count had you up to around 250 gallons worth of tanks, > > > that > > would be > > > 62.5 gallons a week, times 52 weeks = ONLY 3,250 gallons a year so > > > actually, a 16 oz. bottle of API's Tap Water Dechlor would last you > > > about 4 years. > > > It's only $5.69 for 16 oz. but if you want the gallon size, then > > > that would cost you $31.99 (only $4.00 per 16 oz.) but you would be > > > good for > > about 30 > > > years. ;-) > > > > > http://www.drsfostersmith.com/product/prod_display.cfm?c=3578+3974+403 > > 8&pcat > > <http://www.drsfostersmith.com/product/prod_display.cfm?c=3578+3974+40 > > 38&pcat> > > > > > > > <http://www.drsfostersmith.com/product/prod_display.cfm?c=3578+3974+40 > > 38&pcat > > <http://www.drsfostersmith.com/product/prod_display.cfm?c=3578+3974+40 > > 38&pcat>> > > > id=4038 > > > > > > While API is generally a good company, unfortunately, they still > > > have to compete with all of the other crap that is sold by other BIG > > > fish > > product > > > manufacturers, which is why they have their version known as Stress > > Coat, > > > which besides being a dechlor, also has Aloe Vera and who knows what > > > else in it. The MSDS > > > http://cms.marsfishcare.com/files/msds/stress_coat_ng_030907.pdf, > > <http://cms.marsfishcare.com/files/msds/stress_coat_ng_030907.pdf,> > > > <http://cms.marsfishcare.com/files/msds/stress_coat_ng_030907.pdf, > > <http://cms.marsfishcare.com/files/msds/stress_coat_ng_030907.pdf,>> > > in > > > Section > > > 3., shows "Aloes, extract" and then "non hazardous ingredients" and > > > "proprietary" ingredients making up 20% of the product and the rest > > > (80%) is > > > water. I'm not sure why they did not list the Sodium Thiosulphate > > and EDTA > > > which are the products they use in the API Tap Water Conditioner > > > (the regular dechlor from API). I wonder if Stress Coat uses > > > something different and "proprietary" for Stress Coat, much like > > > SeaChem's Prime does > > not list > > > their "proprietary" ingredients on the MSDS for Prime. > > > > > > API also has their version of a bottled bacteria, Stress Zyme, which > > also > > > does not work as advertised... at least not like Dr. Tim's One And > > > Only, which does work. > > > > > > API also sells their patented (just kidding) version of Aquarium > > Salt, to > > > compete with the likes of Doc. Johnson and others. Of course, the > > MSDS for > > > API's Aquarium Salt lists the ingredients as 100% Sodium Chloride... > > > imagine > > > that, their "Aquarium Salt" and all the other aquarium salts sold > > > for several dollars a pint are just plain and simple, good ol' salt. > > > The > > stuff > > > you can get a LOT cheaper at your local grocery store. > > > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>> > > > (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the > > > right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by > > > Year, > > Month) > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On Behalf Of Amber Berglund > > > Sent: Monday, June 22, 2009 10:03 PM > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Tap water Baseline testing, first test. > > > > > > I use stress coat, and honestly I wish my LFS didn't only order it. > > > I go through so much of it I can't afford to buy it off the > > > internet, the shipping would be outrageous for a big bottle of anything. > > > I've asked repeatedly if they will get a different kind of water > > > conditioner but the owner is a jerk and refuses to order anything > > > else *sigh*. The downfall to living on an island I suppose. > > > I have heavy metals in my tap water so regardless I need something > > > that takes care of heavy metals, so I can't get the one that walmart > > > carries here, it only takes care of chlorine. > > > > > > Amber > > > > > > Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > That's fine. If I recall, when you posted info from your water > > utility a > > > > while back, they still use Chlorine only up there... right? That > > > would be > > > > why you do not see the residual ammonia that results from using a > > > dechlor > > > > product, with the plurality of utilities that now use Chloramine. > > > > > > > > Which brand dechlor did you use? > > > > > > > > I'm not sure if Prime, or one of the other dechlors that also > > > purportedly > > > > treat ammonia, would actually change the test results, or not. > > > > Maybe someone who uses Prime can test their Chloramine treated tap > > > > water, then add Prime and then test again to see if ammonia shows > > > > up. > > > > > > > > With your low pH, ammonia isn't really an issue for you anyhow. > > > > > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>> > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>>> > > > > (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the > > right > > > > side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, > > > Month) > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On Behalf Of Amber > > > > Berglund > > > > Sent: Monday, June 22, 2009 9:42 PM > > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Tap water Baseline testing, first test. > > > > > > > > All of the tests were after the dechlor product, so I don't see > > > > any ammonia after using the product... is that good or bad? LOL. > > > > > > > > Amber > > > > > > > > Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > OK... Keep this thread intact by posting your 24 hour and 48 > > hour test > > > > > results in this same thread. > > > > > > > > > > Yes, if your KH test changed colors after only one drop, it > > > > > means, > > > > at this > > > > > stage in the testing process, you have no more than 1 dH (or > > less than > > > > > 18ppm > > > > > of Carbonate Hardness). > > > > > > > > > > Don't forget to add your dechlor and test the ammonia again to > > > > > let > > > > us know > > > > > how much free ammonia you get when the chloramine bond is broken... > > > > > usually > > > > > around 0.5ppm. > > > > > > > > > > Keep the same container of water for the testing at 24 hours and > > > > > 48 > > > > hours. > > > > > > > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > > > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>> > > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>>> > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>> > > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>>>> > > > > > (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on > > > > > the > > > right > > > > > side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by > > > > > Year, > > > > Month) > > > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On Behalf Of Amber > > > > > Berglund > > > > > Sent: Monday, June 22, 2009 9:17 PM > > > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > Subject: [AquaticLife] Tap water Baseline testing, first test. > > > > > > > > > > First baseline testing for my tap water: > > > > > > > > > > pH: 6.5 or 6.6 hard to tell > > > > > > > > > > KH: I'm not sure how to read this one, it only takes 1 drop for > > > > > the water to turn yellow, does that mean I'm somewhere near 0 > > > > > ppm? The chart > > > says 0-3 > > > > > drops is 0-50 ppm... > > > > > > > > > > GH: Approximately 100 ppm > > > > > > > > > > Ammonia: 0 > > > > > > > > > > Nitrate: 0 > > > > > > > > > > Nitrite: 0 >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 41328	From: Jasmine	Date: 6/23/2009
Subject: Re: Tap water Baseline testing, first test.

I remember visiting my uncle and aunty (out in the bush) while growing up. My aunty got nick named 'aunty magot' instead of maggie. I know its bad :-( . As children you never learn the hardship they had to go through just to live in the bush. No electriciy only a bush fridge. I'm sure you would all know what was crawling through the chicken we use to get served - hence aunty magot. --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, Amber Berglund <amber@...> wrote: > > Oh and after hearing stories from my mom about the food grandma made > when they were growing up I now no longer think that it was gross when > grandpa covered all of his food in something, such as ketchup or peanut > butter ;) LOL. > > Amber > > Amber Berglund wrote: > > > > > > They are fruit flies from the berry bushes behind my condo's, no one > > bothers to chop them down and I don't have time to go out there and chop > > down bushes that aren't mine ;) I just trim enough to where I can get > > past them, LOL. > > And I don't think there are any vacant units, we get these flies every > > summer as soon as the berries ripen, so I'm pretty sure they are > > something other than drain flies... Do drain flies bite? LOL. > > > > Your ex wife must've cooked like my grandma, everything left over in the > > fridge that wasn't expired was thrown into a stew and called goulash ;) > > LOL My mom/aunts/uncles used to throw their lunches into mailboxes on > > the way to school, guess they didn't like their sandwiches that grandma > > made 'em either ;) > > > > Amber > > > > Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > > > > > > > > > If they stay in the water too long to where they start to decay, that > > > could > > > be an issue but not if they are picked out. Drop the carcasses into your > > > fish tanks. My fish love when we get a drain fly outbreak and the drain > > > flies take a dip in one of my tanks. > > > > > > However, what you are seeing is NOT likely fruit flies (unless you > > > know for > > > certain that they are, if you have some very ripe fruit around your > > condo) > > > as drain flies are a common issue with apartment complexes and > > condos down > > > here and I'm sure in most areas. Especially if you have a vacant unit > > > nearby that has been vacant for a while. > > > > > > What happens is when the unit is vacant for too long, the water in the > > > various traps (the U pipe section under the sink and the "U-tube" > > > built into > > > a toilet) will dry up from evaporation and once that happens, the drain > > > flies can get into the sewer system. They lay their eggs in the sludge > > > build-up inside the pipes and the flies then go through their life > > cycle, > > > which ultimately brings them into swimming around as little > > wormies/larvae > > > in other peoples drain traps and then the little wormies/larvae > > morph into > > > the flies and they mysteriously come flying out of your drain. > > > Fortunately, > > > most species of drain flies have a very short lifespan. If you can get > > > your > > > maintenance people to run water (or pour it if the water is turned > > off on > > > that unit) into ALL of the drains of the vacant units, this will > > begin to > > > stop the cycle. What you can personally do is cover all of your > > drains to > > > keep the flies from entering your place. I would use an inverted plastic > > > cup over the drains and also close the drain lever (if there is > > one). Not > > > much you can do with the toilet but because the toilet has a glazed U > > > built > > > into it and the water volume used to flush toilets usually flushes > > > away any > > > "build-up" from the surface of the toilet, there usually isn't much > > sludge > > > built up in the U trap of a toilet as compared to the U traps of > > sinks and > > > tubs. > > > > > > Please note that besides dive-bombing your bucket of baseline test > > water, > > > they will also dive-bomb a cup of coffee or any other open container > > with > > > liquid in it. As for my coffee, I just consider them like a coffee > > ground > > > and drink 'em down. They can't be any worse for me than my ex-wife's > > > cooking.. and I lived through that. LOL > > > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>> > > > (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right > > > side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, > > Month) > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On > > > Behalf Of Amber Berglund > > > Sent: Tuesday, June 23, 2009 10:19 AM > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Tap water Baseline testing, first test. > > > > > > Will a few dead fruit flies hurt my baseline testing? LOL Good fly traps > > > though ;) I bet the fish agree when the fruit flies land in the fish > > > tanks, > > > LOL. > > > > > > Amber > > > > > > Amber Berglund wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > Unfortunately I cannot have stuff shipped site to store from > > > > walmart.com, and I asked the hubby if they can order larger sized > > > > bottles than the tiny itty bitty ones they have now (tetra aquasafe). > > > > I was told no, because they don't sell enough of the normal aquasafe > > > > to warrant ordering a bigger bottle of it. Does that treat heavy > > metals? > > > > I also cannot order from drsfostersmith.com with my fed ex account > > > > number, they tell me "it's not possible" blah blah blah, little do > > > > they know I could email them a label for the stupid box but yet they > > > > argue with me in circles. They just don't want to do it basically. I > > > > could probably make a phone call and ask for a manager and eventually > > > > get my way if I was that pushy of a person, but I'm not ;) Maybe I can > > > > get the local "mom and pop" hardware and feed store to order me some > > > > bigger bottles of something cheep ;) I will have to ask her what she > > > > normally orders, I'm pretty sure I saw the tetra aquasafe there as > > > well as > > > walmart. > > > > > > > > Amber > > > > > > > > Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Almost ALL dechlor products treat for heavy metals. What is the > > > > > brand/product that is carried by your local Wal-Mart? Never mind, I > > > > > see they also sell the Jungle Start Right Water Conditioner and > > > > > after looking at DFS.com, the ingredients do not include the EDTA > > > > > tetrasodium salts used for the treatment of heavy metals by most > > > > > dechlor products. > > > > > > > > > > The Walmart.com site shows that they sell the Tetra AquaSafe > > > > > dechlor, which doesn't have the added Aloe Vera. The 16 oz. bottle > > > > > of Tetra AquaSafe is only $7.88. > > > > > http://www.walmart.com/catalog/product.do?product_id=3635396 > > <http://www.walmart.com/catalog/product.do?product_id=3635396> > > > <http://www.walmart.com/catalog/product.do?product_id=3635396 > > <http://www.walmart.com/catalog/product.do?product_id=3635396>> > > > > <http://www.walmart.com/catalog/product.do?product_id=3635396 > > <http://www.walmart.com/catalog/product.do?product_id=3635396> > > > <http://www.walmart.com/catalog/product.do?product_id=3635396 > > <http://www.walmart.com/catalog/product.do?product_id=3635396>>> > > > > > <http://www.walmart.com/catalog/product.do?product_id=3635396 > > <http://www.walmart.com/catalog/product.do?product_id=3635396> > > > <http://www.walmart.com/catalog/product.do?product_id=3635396 > > <http://www.walmart.com/catalog/product.do?product_id=3635396>> > > > > <http://www.walmart.com/catalog/product.do?product_id=3635396 > > <http://www.walmart.com/catalog/product.do?product_id=3635396> > > > <http://www.walmart.com/catalog/product.do?product_id=3635396 > > <http://www.walmart.com/catalog/product.do?product_id=3635396>>>> > > > > > Walmart.com also sells several API products, but NOT their Tap Water > > > > > Conditioner, which would be an even better price per gallon than the > > > > Tetra > > > > > AquaSafe. They also have the 16 oz. of Stress Coat for 7.88. > > > > > Here's a list of the other meds and water treatment products on > > > > > Walmart.com. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > http://www.walmart.com/catalog/catalog.gsp?cat=202105&fromPageCatId=20 > > <http://www.walmart.com/catalog/catalog.gsp?cat=202105&fromPageCatId=20> > > > > > <http://www.walmart.com/catalog/catalog.gsp?cat=202105&fromPageCatId=20 > > <http://www.walmart.com/catalog/catalog.gsp?cat=202105&fromPageCatId=20>> > > > > 2100&c > > > > > > > > > <http://www.walmart.com/catalog/catalog.gsp?cat=202105&fromPageCatId=2 > > <http://www.walmart.com/catalog/catalog.gsp?cat=202105&fromPageCatId=2> > > > > > <http://www.walmart.com/catalog/catalog.gsp?cat=202105&fromPageCatId=2 > > <http://www.walmart.com/catalog/catalog.gsp?cat=202105&fromPageCatId=2>> > > > > 02100&c> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > <http://www.walmart.com/catalog/catalog.gsp?cat=202105&fromPageCatId=2 > > <http://www.walmart.com/catalog/catalog.gsp?cat=202105&fromPageCatId=2> > > > > > <http://www.walmart.com/catalog/catalog.gsp?cat=202105&fromPageCatId=2 > > <http://www.walmart.com/catalog/catalog.gsp?cat=202105&fromPageCatId=2>> > > > > 02100&c > > > > > > > > > <http://www.walmart.com/catalog/catalog.gsp?cat=202105&fromPageCatId=2 > > <http://www.walmart.com/catalog/catalog.gsp?cat=202105&fromPageCatId=2> > > > > > <http://www.walmart.com/catalog/catalog.gsp?cat=202105&fromPageCatId=2 > > <http://www.walmart.com/catalog/catalog.gsp?cat=202105&fromPageCatId=2>> > > > > 02100&c>> > > > > > atNavId=202074 > > > > > > > > > > Considering the number of tanks that you have, you should order the > > > > gallon > > > > > size of API's Tap Water Conditioner from DrsFosterSmith.com, use > > > > > your account and then you won't have to use junk in your tanks for a > > > > > year or more. 16 oz. treats 9,600 gallons of water so a gallon would > > > > > treat close to 80,000 gallons of water. I think that would get you > > > > > through a year > > > > or so. > > > > > ;-) But to be sure, if you do weekly 25% PWC's on all of your tanks, > > > > > and my last count had you up to around 250 gallons worth of tanks, > > > > > that > > > > would be > > > > > 62.5 gallons a week, times 52 weeks = ONLY 3,250 gallons a year so > > > > > actually, a 16 oz. bottle of API's Tap Water Dechlor would last you > > > > > about 4 years. > > > > > It's only $5.69 for 16 oz. but if you want the gallon size, then > > > > > that would cost you $31.99 (only $4.00 per 16 oz.) but you would be > > > > > good for > > > > about 30 > > > > > years. ;-) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > http://www.drsfostersmith.com/product/prod_display.cfm?c=3578+3974+403 > > <http://www.drsfostersmith.com/product/prod_display.cfm?c=3578+3974+403> > > > > > <http://www.drsfostersmith.com/product/prod_display.cfm?c=3578+3974+403 > > <http://www.drsfostersmith.com/product/prod_display.cfm?c=3578+3974+403>> > > > > 8&pcat > > > > > > > > > <http://www.drsfostersmith.com/product/prod_display.cfm?c=3578+3974+40 > > <http://www.drsfostersmith.com/product/prod_display.cfm?c=3578+3974+40> > > > > > <http://www.drsfostersmith.com/product/prod_display.cfm?c=3578+3974+40 > > <http://www.drsfostersmith.com/product/prod_display.cfm?c=3578+3974+40>> > > > > 38&pcat> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > <http://www.drsfostersmith.com/product/prod_display.cfm?c=3578+3974+40 > > <http://www.drsfostersmith.com/product/prod_display.cfm?c=3578+3974+40> > > > > > <http://www.drsfostersmith.com/product/prod_display.cfm?c=3578+3974+40 > > <http://www.drsfostersmith.com/product/prod_display.cfm?c=3578+3974+40>> > > > > 38&pcat > > > > > > > > > <http://www.drsfostersmith.com/product/prod_display.cfm?c=3578+3974+40 > > <http://www.drsfostersmith.com/product/prod_display.cfm?c=3578+3974+40> > > > > > <http://www.drsfostersmith.com/product/prod_display.cfm?c=3578+3974+40 > > <http://www.drsfostersmith.com/product/prod_display.cfm?c=3578+3974+40>> > > > > 38&pcat>> > > > > > id=4038 > > > > > > > > > > While API is generally a good company, unfortunately, they still > > > > > have to compete with all of the other crap that is sold by other BIG > > > > > fish > > > > product > > > > > manufacturers, which is why they have their version known as Stress > > > > Coat, > > > > > which besides being a dechlor, also has Aloe Vera and who knows what > > > > > else in it. The MSDS > > > > > > > http://cms.marsfishcare.com/files/msds/stress_coat_ng_030907.pdf, > > <http://cms.marsfishcare.com/files/msds/stress_coat_ng_030907.pdf,> > > > <http://cms.marsfishcare.com/files/msds/stress_coat_ng_030907.pdf, > > <http://cms.marsfishcare.com/files/msds/stress_coat_ng_030907.pdf,>> > > > > <http://cms.marsfishcare.com/files/msds/stress_coat_ng_030907.pdf, > > <http://cms.marsfishcare.com/files/msds/stress_coat_ng_030907.pdf,> > > > <http://cms.marsfishcare.com/files/msds/stress_coat_ng_030907.pdf, > > <http://cms.marsfishcare.com/files/msds/stress_coat_ng_030907.pdf,>>> > > > > > > > <http://cms.marsfishcare.com/files/msds/stress_coat_ng_030907.pdf, > > <http://cms.marsfishcare.com/files/msds/stress_coat_ng_030907.pdf,> > > > <http://cms.marsfishcare.com/files/msds/stress_coat_ng_030907.pdf, > > <http://cms.marsfishcare.com/files/msds/stress_coat_ng_030907.pdf,>> > > > > <http://cms.marsfishcare.com/files/msds/stress_coat_ng_030907.pdf, > > <http://cms.marsfishcare.com/files/msds/stress_coat_ng_030907.pdf,> > > > <http://cms.marsfishcare.com/files/msds/stress_coat_ng_030907.pdf, > > <http://cms.marsfishcare.com/files/msds/stress_coat_ng_030907.pdf,>>>> > > > > in > > > > > Section > > > > > 3., shows "Aloes, extract" and then "non hazardous ingredients" and > > > > > "proprietary" ingredients making up 20% of the product and the rest > > > > > (80%) is > > > > > water. I'm not sure why they did not list the Sodium Thiosulphate > > > > and EDTA > > > > > which are the products they use in the API Tap Water Conditioner > > > > > (the regular dechlor from API). I wonder if Stress Coat uses > > > > > something different and "proprietary" for Stress Coat, much like > > > > > SeaChem's Prime does > > > > not list > > > > > their "proprietary" ingredients on the MSDS for Prime. > > > > > > > > > > API also has their version of a bottled bacteria, Stress Zyme, which > > > > also > > > > > does not work as advertised... at least not like Dr. Tim's One And > > > > > Only, which does work. > > > > > > > > > > API also sells their patented (just kidding) version of Aquarium > > > > Salt, to > > > > > compete with the likes of Doc. Johnson and others. Of course, the > > > > MSDS for > > > > > API's Aquarium Salt lists the ingredients as 100% Sodium Chloride... > > > > > imagine > > > > > that, their "Aquarium Salt" and all the other aquarium salts sold > > > > > for several dollars a pint are just plain and simple, good ol' salt. > > > > > The > > > > stuff > > > > > you can get a LOT cheaper at your local grocery store. > > > > > > > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > > > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>> > > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>>> > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>> > > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>>>> > > > > > (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the > > > > > right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by > > > > > Year, > > > > Month) > > > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On Behalf Of Amber Berglund > > > > > Sent: Monday, June 22, 2009 10:03 PM > > > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Tap water Baseline testing, first test. > > > > > > > > > > I use stress coat, and honestly I wish my LFS didn't only order it. > > > > > I go through so much of it I can't afford to buy it off the > > > > > internet, the shipping would be outrageous for a big bottle of > > > anything. > > > > > I've asked repeatedly if they will get a different kind of water > > > > > conditioner but the owner is a jerk and refuses to order anything > > > > > else *sigh*. The downfall to living on an island I suppose. > > > > > I have heavy metals in my tap water so regardless I need something > > > > > that takes care of heavy metals, so I can't get the one that walmart > > > > > carries here, it only takes care of chlorine. > > > > > > > > > > Amber > > > > > > > > > > Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > That's fine. If I recall, when you posted info from your water > > > > utility a > > > > > > while back, they still use Chlorine only up there... right? That > > > > > would be > > > > > > why you do not see the residual ammonia that results from using a > > > > > dechlor > > > > > > product, with the plurality of utilities that now use Chloramine. > > > > > > > > > > > > Which brand dechlor did you use? > > > > > > > > > > > > I'm not sure if Prime, or one of the other dechlors that also > > > > > purportedly > > > > > > treat ammonia, would actually change the test results, or not. > > > > > > Maybe someone who uses Prime can test their Chloramine treated tap > > > > > > water, then add Prime and then test again to see if ammonia shows > > > > > > up. > > > > > > > > > > > > With your low pH, ammonia isn't really an issue for you anyhow. > > > > > > > > > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > > > > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>> > > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>>> > > > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>> > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>>>> > > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>> > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>>> > > > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>> > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>>>>> > > > > > > (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the > > > > right > > > > > > side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, > > > > > Month) > > > > > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > > > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On Behalf Of Amber > > > > > > Berglund > > > > > > Sent: Monday, June 22, 2009 9:42 PM > > > > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Tap water Baseline testing, first test. > > > > > > > > > > > > All of the tests were after the dechlor product, so I don't see > > > > > > any ammonia after using the product... is that good or bad? LOL. > > > > > > > > > > > > Amber > > > > > > > > > > > > Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > OK... Keep this thread intact by posting your 24 hour and 48 > > > > hour test > > > > > > > results in this same thread. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Yes, if your KH test changed colors after only one drop, it > > > > > > > means, > > > > > > at this > > > > > > > stage in the testing process, you have no more than 1 dH (or > > > > less than > > > > > > > 18ppm > > > > > > > of Carbonate Hardness). > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Don't forget to add your dechlor and test the ammonia again to > > > > > > > let > > > > > > us know > > > > > > > how much free ammonia you get when the chloramine bond is > > > broken... > > > > > > > usually > > > > > > > around 0.5ppm. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Keep the same container of water for the testing at 24 hours and > > > > > > > 48 > > > > > > hours. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > > > > > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>> > > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>>> > > > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>> > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>>>> > > > > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>> > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>>> > > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>> > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>>>>> > > > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>> > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>>> > > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>> > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>>>> > > > > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>> > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>>> > > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>> > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>>>>>> > > > > > > > (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on > > > > > > > the > > > > > right > > > > > > > side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by > > > > > > > Year, > > > > > > Month) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > > > > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On Behalf Of Amber > > > > > > > Berglund > > > > > > > Sent: Monday, June 22, 2009 9:17 PM > > > > > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > Subject: [AquaticLife] Tap water Baseline testing, first test. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > First baseline testing for my tap water: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > pH: 6.5 or 6.6 hard to tell > > > > > > > > > > > > > > KH: I'm not sure how to read this one, it only takes 1 drop for > > > > > > > the water to turn yellow, does that mean I'm somewhere near 0 > > > > > > > ppm? The chart > > > > > says 0-3 > > > > > > > drops is 0-50 ppm... > > > > > > > > > > > > > > GH: Approximately 100 ppm > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Ammonia: 0 > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Nitrate: 0 > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Nitrite: 0 > > > > > > > > > > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 41329	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 6/23/2009
Subject: Re: Sexing Angelfish, was: Pleco verse Bristlenose

Not that it is ever good to lose a fish to disease but the Clown Loaches were not a suitable fish for your tanks anyhow. They grow to well over a foot long and should be kept in groups of five or more with three being a minimal amount. Because of this, they would need a 6' long tank, at least, to give them proper swimming/growing room. For your 36" long tank, you want to keep fish that stay under 6" as full grown adults and if they are FAST swimming fish, then under 4.5" as full grown adults. See my blog article for a simple set of guidelines on stocking a tank so it does not get overstocked. http://goldlenny.blogspot.com/2007/02/new-rules-guidelines-to-replace-1-per. html Start using http://fish.mongabay.com and use the Search Box to look up the common names or scientific names of proposed fish, that you might be thinking about, to see the profiles/care sheets on Mongabay which are very good. They also show tank size recommendations, water parameter preferences, breeding info, feeding info, etc., including an SC section which is for Suggested Companions to help you keep from making a compatibility match problem. You should also quarantine for much longer than a week. Most folks like to go 3-4 weeks at least. I'll let Ray answer the angelfish breeding questions. He's one of the experts out here on that topic! Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Jasmine Sent: Wednesday, June 24, 2009 12:14 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Sexing Angelfish, was: Pleco verse Bristlenose Hi Ray I guess I wasn't use to not seeing the photos get filed straight away. I normally would go back and check to see if I had posted it first before attempting to add another one (I get distracted by a cat at times)  I updated the name on the one I had posted as female to `Male Marble Angle' - I wasn't sure if i could updated the photo captions but played around and fun that I could - thanks. Due to the current accommodation sizing in the house, I think I would like to see the parents raise the frys (do you call baby angles Frys?) on their own if possible. We currently have a 3foot tank (that is our main tank) and a 18" length tank which is our hospital/quarantine tank. We currently have it set up for the last lot of fish / plants we purchased. We quarantine them for a week, they all looked good however, while transferring the last of the fishes (Clown loaches) to the main tank - thats when I spoted `white spot'. I had a closer look at the tetras we purchased and silver sharks - they had white spots on them also. I ended up losing all my clown loaches (including the ones in the main tank because I had infected the tank too) The main tank is fine now though. The two tertras that are left look healthy now, its been over a week since the spots have gone. The plants are thriving, roots and stems and leaves coming out everywhere. So was thinking of moving them over to the main tank over the weekend (about 4 days time). Then we will bring in the spare aquarium from the garage and set it up for the Koi and Marble angel fish. So should we tank the juvies out of the tank (after 4 weeks) leaving the parents by themselves? Would we be able to put the juvies in the main tank with the other fish or would we be looking at getting another fish tank? Jasmine --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Raymond Wetzel" <sevenspringss@...> wrote: > > I figured as much on the dupes. No problem, that's all part of why we first approve them before they're filed in Photos. I thought I might change the caption on your male Angel to state just that (instead of your believing it's a female. In this way, anyone looking at that pic in the future won't be mislead. > > Yes, always best to have the pair in a tank of their own. Before doing so, you need to decide if you're going to pull the eggs out and raise them by themselves (which would require another tank) or whether you want to try to have the pair raise them (which would require a larger tank to accomodate all the fish). Please know that, if you decide on having the parents raise them (if they will), you will still need to move the juveniles to a large tank of their own, at about 4 weeks of age, and well before selling size. Otherwise, a minimum tank size for just the pair would be a 20 gallon high, although they'd be more comfortable in a 29. > > To leave the juveniles with the parents after 4 weeks is to invite the > inevitable mutilation of the pair's fins and skin by the juvies as > they attempt to eat the slime secretion that the parents produce, in > addition to what you'd already be feeding them -- similar to how > Discus feed (this is called "contacting" in Cichlids) -- only, > Angelfish parents cannot produce nearly as much body mucous. Instead, > their fins get descimated, and if allowed to continue, their skin > doesn't fair much better. Ray

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 41330	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 6/23/2009
Subject: Re: Sexing Angelfish, was: Pleco verse Bristlenose

What is a UV Filtration Rod? I did a Google but nothing jumped out at me and I've never heard the term. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Jasmine Sent: Wednesday, June 24, 2009 12:55 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Sexing Angelfish, was: Pleco verse Bristlenose Is there a way we can neuter the angels to stop them from breeding LOL Our tank is 215L and our pair of angels are pecking at the UV filtration rod we placed in our tank recently. I'm suspecting, this will be where they will spawn. If your angels took over half of your tank (125gallons) what hope have the remaining fish we have going to survive LOL. We have an old TV unit to which we have been thinking of having a tank made to fit into that gap. But at this stage, its just talk. It would look nice though - I can post a photo of the unit if you like. Jasmine --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, Amber Berglund <amber@...> wrote: > > I can speak from experience that the Angel's do not live on any > schedule humans keep, LOL. Mine usually spawn at least once a month, > sometimes every couple of weeks if they're really in the mood. The > babies never survive as once they hatch they are quickly devoured by > the parents, but I think most of that reason is because they are in a > mixed community tank and the babies all look like food to the other > fish, so the parent's eat them first. > I wouldn't worry too much if they spawn before you go to move them, > but if they do be prepared for them to get even more aggressive to the > other fish, they will probably keep all the fish at a distance while > they are taking care of the eggs. Mine keep a whole half of the 125 > gallon tank to themselves, greedy buggers ;) LOL. If they still have > eggs when you have their tank ready for them you can either wait until > they hatch or the Angel's eat them all (they don't always get it right > from the first time, hehe). Mine ate their first few batches of eggs > before they hatched, I only saw the last batch hatch and I think that > was something like their 4th or 5th try. > It's quite fun to watch them take care of the eggs though, I can't > wait to see how well they do at raising their young when they're alone. > Oh speaking of Angel's... the stand is built for their new tank, but > unfortunately the hubby messed up a measurement and it needs slight > adjustment before I can use it (go figure, hehe). It also needs to be > painted, it's just bare steel for now, and it will rust if it doesn't > get painted. > > Amber

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 41331	From: Jasmine	Date: 6/23/2009
Subject: Re: Sexing Angelfish, was: Pleco verse Bristlenose

We purchased the clown loaches to keep the snail population down. Who know that Mystery snails breed so profusely LOL. The clown loaches did a fantastic job too. Since getting the angels, i think i've found a new fish that may keep the population of snails down. I have booked marked the links you have provided, thank you. Jasmine --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@...> wrote: > > Not that it is ever good to lose a fish to disease but the Clown Loaches > were not a suitable fish for your tanks anyhow. They grow to well over a > foot long and should be kept in groups of five or more with three being a > minimal amount. Because of this, they would need a 6' long tank, at least, > to give them proper swimming/growing room. > > For your 36" long tank, you want to keep fish that stay under 6" as full > grown adults and if they are FAST swimming fish, then under 4.5" as full > grown adults. See my blog article for a simple set of guidelines on > stocking a tank so it does not get overstocked. > http://goldlenny.blogspot.com/2007/02/new-rules-guidelines-to-replace-1-per. > html > > Start using http://fish.mongabay.com and use the Search Box to look up the > common names or scientific names of proposed fish, that you might be > thinking about, to see the profiles/care sheets on Mongabay which are very > good. They also show tank size recommendations, water parameter > preferences, breeding info, feeding info, etc., including an SC section > which is for Suggested Companions to help you keep from making a > compatibility match problem. > > You should also quarantine for much longer than a week. Most folks like to > go 3-4 weeks at least. > > I'll let Ray answer the angelfish breeding questions. He's one of the > experts out here on that topic! > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right > side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 41332	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 6/23/2009
Subject: Re: Tap water Baseline testing, first test.

"The bush"... as in Australia? Or somewhere else? If in Australia, do a shout out to your fellow Aussies out here. I know we have a few, Lisa being one that jumps to mind. You know us Americans, most of our knowledge of Australia probably came from Crocodile Dundee (I and II) and more recently from Survivor and Steve Irwin (RIP). Thank God for cable TV and the NatGeo and Animal Planet channels to bring us kicking and screaming into a little more Australian culture. LOL Aunty Maggot sounds like a character from a children's scary story. Aunty Maggot and Uncle Wormy and the BIG pot of Goulash they would make with the children that would come by to visit. ;-) Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Jasmine Sent: Wednesday, June 24, 2009 1:18 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Tap water Baseline testing, first test. I remember visiting my uncle and aunty (out in the bush) while growing up. My aunty got nick named 'aunty magot' instead of maggie. I know its bad :-( . As children you never learn the hardship they had to go through just to live in the bush. No electriciy only a bush fridge. I'm sure you would all know what was crawling through the chicken we use to get served - hence aunty magot. --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, Amber Berglund <amber@...> wrote: > > Oh and after hearing stories from my mom about the food grandma made > when they were growing up I now no longer think that it was gross when > grandpa covered all of his food in something, such as ketchup or > peanut butter ;) LOL. > > Amber > > Amber Berglund wrote: > > > > > > They are fruit flies from the berry bushes behind my condo's, no one > > bothers to chop them down and I don't have time to go out there and > > chop down bushes that aren't mine ;) I just trim enough to where I > > can get past them, LOL. > > And I don't think there are any vacant units, we get these flies > > every summer as soon as the berries ripen, so I'm pretty sure they > > are something other than drain flies... Do drain flies bite? LOL. > > > > Your ex wife must've cooked like my grandma, everything left over in > > the fridge that wasn't expired was thrown into a stew and called > > goulash ;) LOL My mom/aunts/uncles used to throw their lunches into > > mailboxes on the way to school, guess they didn't like their > > sandwiches that grandma made 'em either ;) > > > > Amber > > > > Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > > > > > > > > > If they stay in the water too long to where they start to decay, > > > that could be an issue but not if they are picked out. Drop the > > > carcasses into your fish tanks. My fish love when we get a drain > > > fly outbreak and the drain flies take a dip in one of my tanks. > > > > > > However, what you are seeing is NOT likely fruit flies (unless you > > > know for certain that they are, if you have some very ripe fruit > > > around your > > condo) > > > as drain flies are a common issue with apartment complexes and > > condos down > > > here and I'm sure in most areas. Especially if you have a vacant > > > unit nearby that has been vacant for a while. > > > > > > What happens is when the unit is vacant for too long, the water in > > > the various traps (the U pipe section under the sink and the "U-tube" > > > built into > > > a toilet) will dry up from evaporation and once that happens, the > > > drain flies can get into the sewer system. They lay their eggs in > > > the sludge build-up inside the pipes and the flies then go through > > > their life > > cycle, > > > which ultimately brings them into swimming around as little > > wormies/larvae > > > in other peoples drain traps and then the little wormies/larvae > > morph into > > > the flies and they mysteriously come flying out of your drain. > > > Fortunately, > > > most species of drain flies have a very short lifespan. If you can > > > get your maintenance people to run water (or pour it if the water > > > is turned > > off on > > > that unit) into ALL of the drains of the vacant units, this will > > begin to > > > stop the cycle. What you can personally do is cover all of your > > drains to > > > keep the flies from entering your place. I would use an inverted > > > plastic cup over the drains and also close the drain lever (if > > > there is > > one). Not > > > much you can do with the toilet but because the toilet has a > > > glazed U built into it and the water volume used to flush toilets > > > usually flushes away any "build-up" from the surface of the > > > toilet, there usually isn't much > > sludge > > > built up in the U trap of a toilet as compared to the U traps of > > sinks and > > > tubs. > > > > > > Please note that besides dive-bombing your bucket of baseline test > > water, > > > they will also dive-bomb a cup of coffee or any other open > > > container > > with > > > liquid in it. As for my coffee, I just consider them like a coffee > > ground > > > and drink 'em down. They can't be any worse for me than my > > > ex-wife's cooking.. and I lived through that. LOL > > > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>> > > > (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the > > > right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by > > > Year, > > Month) > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On Behalf Of Amber > > > Berglund > > > Sent: Tuesday, June 23, 2009 10:19 AM > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Tap water Baseline testing, first test. > > > > > > Will a few dead fruit flies hurt my baseline testing? LOL Good fly > > > traps though ;) I bet the fish agree when the fruit flies land in > > > the fish tanks, LOL. > > > > > > Amber > > > > > > Amber Berglund wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > Unfortunately I cannot have stuff shipped site to store from > > > > walmart.com, and I asked the hubby if they can order larger > > > > sized bottles than the tiny itty bitty ones they have now (tetra aquasafe). > > > > I was told no, because they don't sell enough of the normal > > > > aquasafe to warrant ordering a bigger bottle of it. Does that > > > > treat heavy > > metals? > > > > I also cannot order from drsfostersmith.com with my fed ex > > > > account number, they tell me "it's not possible" blah blah blah, > > > > little do they know I could email them a label for the stupid > > > > box but yet they argue with me in circles. They just don't want > > > > to do it basically. I could probably make a phone call and ask > > > > for a manager and eventually get my way if I was that pushy of a > > > > person, but I'm not ;) Maybe I can get the local "mom and pop" > > > > hardware and feed store to order me some bigger bottles of > > > > something cheep ;) I will have to ask her what she normally > > > > orders, I'm pretty sure I saw the tetra aquasafe there as > > > well as > > > walmart. > > > > > > > > Amber > > > > > > > > Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Almost ALL dechlor products treat for heavy metals. What is > > > > > the brand/product that is carried by your local Wal-Mart? > > > > > Never mind, I see they also sell the Jungle Start Right Water > > > > > Conditioner and after looking at DFS.com, the ingredients do > > > > > not include the EDTA tetrasodium salts used for the treatment > > > > > of heavy metals by most dechlor products. > > > > > > > > > > The Walmart.com site shows that they sell the Tetra AquaSafe > > > > > dechlor, which doesn't have the added Aloe Vera. The 16 oz. > > > > > bottle of Tetra AquaSafe is only $7.88. > > > > > http://www.walmart.com/catalog/product.do?product_id=3635396 > > <http://www.walmart.com/catalog/product.do?product_id=3635396> > > > <http://www.walmart.com/catalog/product.do?product_id=3635396 > > <http://www.walmart.com/catalog/product.do?product_id=3635396>> > > > > <http://www.walmart.com/catalog/product.do?product_id=3635396 > > <http://www.walmart.com/catalog/product.do?product_id=3635396> > > > <http://www.walmart.com/catalog/product.do?product_id=3635396 > > <http://www.walmart.com/catalog/product.do?product_id=3635396>>> > > > > > <http://www.walmart.com/catalog/product.do?product_id=3635396 > > <http://www.walmart.com/catalog/product.do?product_id=3635396> > > > <http://www.walmart.com/catalog/product.do?product_id=3635396 > > <http://www.walmart.com/catalog/product.do?product_id=3635396>> > > > > <http://www.walmart.com/catalog/product.do?product_id=3635396 > > <http://www.walmart.com/catalog/product.do?product_id=3635396> > > > <http://www.walmart.com/catalog/product.do?product_id=3635396 > > <http://www.walmart.com/catalog/product.do?product_id=3635396>>>> > > > > > Walmart.com also sells several API products, but NOT their Tap > > > > > Water Conditioner, which would be an even better price per > > > > > gallon than the > > > > Tetra > > > > > AquaSafe. They also have the 16 oz. of Stress Coat for 7.88. > > > > > Here's a list of the other meds and water treatment products > > > > > on Walmart.com. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > http://www.walmart.com/catalog/catalog.gsp?cat=202105&fromPageCatId= > > 20 > > <http://www.walmart.com/catalog/catalog.gsp?cat=202105&fromPageCatId > > =20> > > > > > <http://www.walmart.com/catalog/catalog.gsp?cat=202105&fromPageCatId > > =20 > > <http://www.walmart.com/catalog/catalog.gsp?cat=202105&fromPageCatId > > =20>> > > > > 2100&c > > > > > > > > > <http://www.walmart.com/catalog/catalog.gsp?cat=202105&fromPageCatId > > =2 > > <http://www.walmart.com/catalog/catalog.gsp?cat=202105&fromPageCatId > > =2> > > > > > <http://www.walmart.com/catalog/catalog.gsp?cat=202105&fromPageCatId > > =2 > > <http://www.walmart.com/catalog/catalog.gsp?cat=202105&fromPageCatId > > =2>> > > > > 02100&c> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > <http://www.walmart.com/catalog/catalog.gsp?cat=202105&fromPageCatId > > =2 > > <http://www.walmart.com/catalog/catalog.gsp?cat=202105&fromPageCatId > > =2> > > > > > <http://www.walmart.com/catalog/catalog.gsp?cat=202105&fromPageCatId > > =2 > > <http://www.walmart.com/catalog/catalog.gsp?cat=202105&fromPageCatId > > =2>> > > > > 02100&c > > > > > > > > > <http://www.walmart.com/catalog/catalog.gsp?cat=202105&fromPageCatId > > =2 > > <http://www.walmart.com/catalog/catalog.gsp?cat=202105&fromPageCatId > > =2> > > > > > <http://www.walmart.com/catalog/catalog.gsp?cat=202105&fromPageCatId > > =2 > > <http://www.walmart.com/catalog/catalog.gsp?cat=202105&fromPageCatId > > =2>> > > > > 02100&c>> > > > > > atNavId=202074 > > > > > > > > > > Considering the number of tanks that you have, you should > > > > > order the > > > > gallon > > > > > size of API's Tap Water Conditioner from DrsFosterSmith.com, > > > > > use your account and then you won't have to use junk in your > > > > > tanks for a year or more. 16 oz. treats 9,600 gallons of water > > > > > so a gallon would treat close to 80,000 gallons of water. I > > > > > think that would get you through a year > > > > or so. > > > > > ;-) But to be sure, if you do weekly 25% PWC's on all of your > > > > > tanks, and my last count had you up to around 250 gallons > > > > > worth of tanks, that > > > > would be > > > > > 62.5 gallons a week, times 52 weeks = ONLY 3,250 gallons a > > > > > year so actually, a 16 oz. bottle of API's Tap Water Dechlor > > > > > would last you about 4 years. > > > > > It's only $5.69 for 16 oz. but if you want the gallon size, > > > > > then that would cost you $31.99 (only $4.00 per 16 oz.) but > > > > > you would be good for > > > > about 30 > > > > > years. ;-)

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 41333	From: Jasmine	Date: 6/24/2009
Subject: Re: Sexing Angelfish, was: Pleco verse Bristlenose

UV Filtration rod – I never knew they existed till recently when my partner was asking if one existed. Our LFS had two sizes. The proper name is "UView Aquarium purifier" it polishes water with the power of the sun. • Crystal clear water • No more algae or bacteria in water • Natural cleansing, chemical free • Healthier water, healthier fish • Freshwater or marine environments • For aquariums up to 200 litres. I still have the box and it reads – Our unique purifier uses low wattage UV radiation to kill all water borne algae, bacteria and pathogens passing through the filter. Used alongside your regular filter it will give you continuous clean, crystal clear water. This also improves fish health and well being and aids the introduction of new fish. *some persistent algae may still grow on the tank, plants and ornaments and may need to be wiped off occasionally. I've found one site that has a mention (not much of a mention though) http://www.aquaticlifeaquariums.com.au/index1.html What is does is, it take in the tank water through a sponge (that requires cleaning about every 3 weeks). The water passes through UV light which destroys bacteria and passes filtration water back into the tank ever so gently. Oh, I've added two photos of the one in our tank. One is the rear view and the other a side view. You will also notice the two angles in one of the shots Jasmine --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@...> wrote: > > What is a UV Filtration Rod? I did a Google but nothing jumped out at me > and I've never heard the term. > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right > side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) > > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On > Behalf Of Jasmine > Sent: Wednesday, June 24, 2009 12:55 AM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Sexing Angelfish, was: Pleco verse Bristlenose > > Is there a way we can neuter the angels to stop them from breeding LOL > > Our tank is 215L and our pair of angels are pecking at the UV filtration rod > we placed in our tank recently. I'm suspecting, this will be where they > will spawn. > > If your angels took over half of your tank (125gallons) what hope have the > remaining fish we have going to survive LOL. > > We have an old TV unit to which we have been thinking of having a tank made > to fit into that gap. But at this stage, its just talk. It would look nice > though - I can post a photo of the unit if you like. > Jasmine > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, Amber Berglund <amber@> wrote: > > > > I can speak from experience that the Angel's do not live on any > > schedule humans keep, LOL. Mine usually spawn at least once a month, > > sometimes every couple of weeks if they're really in the mood. The > > babies never survive as once they hatch they are quickly devoured by > > the parents, but I think most of that reason is because they are in a > > mixed community tank and the babies all look like food to the other > > fish, so the parent's eat them first. > > I wouldn't worry too much if they spawn before you go to move them, > > but if they do be prepared for them to get even more aggressive to the > > other fish, they will probably keep all the fish at a distance while > > they are taking care of the eggs. Mine keep a whole half of the 125 > > gallon tank to themselves, greedy buggers ;) LOL. If they still have > > eggs when you have their tank ready for them you can either wait until > > they hatch or the Angel's eat them all (they don't always get it right > > from the first time, hehe). Mine ate their first few batches of eggs > > before they hatched, I only saw the last batch hatch and I think that > > was something like their 4th or 5th try. > > It's quite fun to watch them take care of the eggs though, I can't > > wait to see how well they do at raising their young when they're alone. > > Oh speaking of Angel's... the stand is built for their new tank, but > > unfortunately the hubby messed up a measurement and it needs slight > > adjustment before I can use it (go figure, hehe). It also needs to be > > painted, it's just bare steel for now, and it will rust if it doesn't > > get painted. > > > > Amber >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 41334	From: Jasmine	Date: 6/24/2009
Subject: Re: Tap water Baseline testing, first test.

ROFLMAO but in my case - coughing to death LOL (dam flu!) Yes - I'm an Aussie girl. Canberra - the heart of the Nation. Where its cold at present. Will post two photo's of dad's farm. 1. Dad's ute on one of his boundary lines (88 acres), and 2. Dad closing one of the gates. Now, Aunty Maggie and family lived approx 250 meters from shot No. 2. photo 1: will give you an indication of what I mean by "bush" only dirt tracks out there. Jasmine --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@...> wrote: > > "The bush"... as in Australia? Or somewhere else? If in Australia, do a > shout out to your fellow Aussies out here. I know we have a few, Lisa being > one that jumps to mind. > > You know us Americans, most of our knowledge of Australia probably came from > Crocodile Dundee (I and II) and more recently from Survivor and Steve Irwin > (RIP). Thank God for cable TV and the NatGeo and Animal Planet channels to > bring us kicking and screaming into a little more Australian culture. LOL > > Aunty Maggot sounds like a character from a children's scary story. Aunty > Maggot and Uncle Wormy and the BIG pot of Goulash they would make with the > children that would come by to visit. ;-) > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right > side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) > > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On > Behalf Of Jasmine > Sent: Wednesday, June 24, 2009 1:18 AM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Tap water Baseline testing, first test. > > I remember visiting my uncle and aunty (out in the bush) while growing up. > My aunty got nick named 'aunty magot' instead of maggie. I know its bad :-( > . As children you never learn the hardship they had to go through just to > live in the bush. No electriciy only a bush fridge. I'm sure you would all > know what was crawling through the chicken we use to get served - hence > aunty magot. > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, Amber Berglund <amber@> wrote: > > > > Oh and after hearing stories from my mom about the food grandma made > > when they were growing up I now no longer think that it was gross when > > grandpa covered all of his food in something, such as ketchup or > > peanut butter ;) LOL. > > > > Amber > > > > Amber Berglund wrote: > > > > > > > > > They are fruit flies from the berry bushes behind my condo's, no one > > > bothers to chop them down and I don't have time to go out there and > > > chop down bushes that aren't mine ;) I just trim enough to where I > > > can get past them, LOL. > > > And I don't think there are any vacant units, we get these flies > > > every summer as soon as the berries ripen, so I'm pretty sure they > > > are something other than drain flies... Do drain flies bite? LOL. > > > > > > Your ex wife must've cooked like my grandma, everything left over in > > > the fridge that wasn't expired was thrown into a stew and called > > > goulash ;) LOL My mom/aunts/uncles used to throw their lunches into > > > mailboxes on the way to school, guess they didn't like their > > > sandwiches that grandma made 'em either ;) > > > > > > Amber > > > > > > Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > If they stay in the water too long to where they start to decay, > > > > that could be an issue but not if they are picked out. Drop the > > > > carcasses into your fish tanks. My fish love when we get a drain > > > > fly outbreak and the drain flies take a dip in one of my tanks. > > > > > > > > However, what you are seeing is NOT likely fruit flies (unless you > > > > know for certain that they are, if you have some very ripe fruit > > > > around your > > > condo) > > > > as drain flies are a common issue with apartment complexes and > > > condos down > > > > here and I'm sure in most areas. Especially if you have a vacant > > > > unit nearby that has been vacant for a while. > > > > > > > > What happens is when the unit is vacant for too long, the water in > > > > the various traps (the U pipe section under the sink and the "U-tube" > > > > built into > > > > a toilet) will dry up from evaporation and once that happens, the > > > > drain flies can get into the sewer system. They lay their eggs in > > > > the sludge build-up inside the pipes and the flies then go through > > > > their life > > > cycle, > > > > which ultimately brings them into swimming around as little > > > wormies/larvae > > > > in other peoples drain traps and then the little wormies/larvae > > > morph into > > > > the flies and they mysteriously come flying out of your drain. > > > > Fortunately, > > > > most species of drain flies have a very short lifespan. If you can > > > > get your maintenance people to run water (or pour it if the water > > > > is turned > > > off on > > > > that unit) into ALL of the drains of the vacant units, this will > > > begin to > > > > stop the cycle. What you can personally do is cover all of your > > > drains to > > > > keep the flies from entering your place. I would use an inverted > > > > plastic cup over the drains and also close the drain lever (if > > > > there is > > > one). Not > > > > much you can do with the toilet but because the toilet has a > > > > glazed U built into it and the water volume used to flush toilets > > > > usually flushes away any "build-up" from the surface of the > > > > toilet, there usually isn't much > > > sludge > > > > built up in the U trap of a toilet as compared to the U traps of > > > sinks and > > > > tubs. > > > > > > > > Please note that besides dive-bombing your bucket of baseline test > > > water, > > > > they will also dive-bomb a cup of coffee or any other open > > > > container > > > with > > > > liquid in it. As for my coffee, I just consider them like a coffee > > > ground > > > > and drink 'em down. They can't be any worse for me than my > > > > ex-wife's cooking.. and I lived through that. LOL > > > > > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>> > > > > (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the > > > > right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by > > > > Year, > > > Month) > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On Behalf Of Amber > > > > Berglund > > > > Sent: Tuesday, June 23, 2009 10:19 AM > > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Tap water Baseline testing, first test. > > > > > > > > Will a few dead fruit flies hurt my baseline testing? LOL Good fly > > > > traps though ;) I bet the fish agree when the fruit flies land in > > > > the fish tanks, LOL. > > > > > > > > Amber > > > > > > > > Amber Berglund wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Unfortunately I cannot have stuff shipped site to store from > > > > > walmart.com, and I asked the hubby if they can order larger > > > > > sized bottles than the tiny itty bitty ones they have now (tetra > aquasafe). > > > > > I was told no, because they don't sell enough of the normal > > > > > aquasafe to warrant ordering a bigger bottle of it. Does that > > > > > treat heavy > > > metals? > > > > > I also cannot order from drsfostersmith.com with my fed ex > > > > > account number, they tell me "it's not possible" blah blah blah, > > > > > little do they know I could email them a label for the stupid > > > > > box but yet they argue with me in circles. They just don't want > > > > > to do it basically. I could probably make a phone call and ask > > > > > for a manager and eventually get my way if I was that pushy of a > > > > > person, but I'm not ;) Maybe I can get the local "mom and pop" > > > > > hardware and feed store to order me some bigger bottles of > > > > > something cheep ;) I will have to ask her what she normally > > > > > orders, I'm pretty sure I saw the tetra aquasafe there as > > > > well as > > > > walmart. > > > > > > > > > > Amber > > > > > > > > > > Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Almost ALL dechlor products treat for heavy metals. What is > > > > > > the brand/product that is carried by your local Wal-Mart? > > > > > > Never mind, I see they also sell the Jungle Start Right Water > > > > > > Conditioner and after looking at DFS.com, the ingredients do > > > > > > not include the EDTA tetrasodium salts used for the treatment > > > > > > of heavy metals by most dechlor products. > > > > > > > > > > > > The Walmart.com site shows that they sell the Tetra AquaSafe > > > > > > dechlor, which doesn't have the added Aloe Vera. The 16 oz. > > > > > > bottle of Tetra AquaSafe is only $7.88. > > > > > > http://www.walmart.com/catalog/product.do?product_id=3635396 > > > <http://www.walmart.com/catalog/product.do?product_id=3635396> > > > > <http://www.walmart.com/catalog/product.do?product_id=3635396 > > > <http://www.walmart.com/catalog/product.do?product_id=3635396>> > > > > > <http://www.walmart.com/catalog/product.do?product_id=3635396 > > > <http://www.walmart.com/catalog/product.do?product_id=3635396> > > > > <http://www.walmart.com/catalog/product.do?product_id=3635396 > > > <http://www.walmart.com/catalog/product.do?product_id=3635396>>> > > > > > > <http://www.walmart.com/catalog/product.do?product_id=3635396 > > > <http://www.walmart.com/catalog/product.do?product_id=3635396> > > > > <http://www.walmart.com/catalog/product.do?product_id=3635396 > > > <http://www.walmart.com/catalog/product.do?product_id=3635396>> > > > > > <http://www.walmart.com/catalog/product.do?product_id=3635396 > > > <http://www.walmart.com/catalog/product.do?product_id=3635396> > > > > <http://www.walmart.com/catalog/product.do?product_id=3635396 > > > <http://www.walmart.com/catalog/product.do?product_id=3635396>>>> > > > > > > Walmart.com also sells several API products, but NOT their Tap > > > > > > Water Conditioner, which would be an even better price per > > > > > > gallon than the > > > > > Tetra > > > > > > AquaSafe. They also have the 16 oz. of Stress Coat for 7.88. > > > > > > Here's a list of the other meds and water treatment products > > > > > > on Walmart.com. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > http://www.walmart.com/catalog/catalog.gsp?cat=202105&fromPageCatId= > > > 20 > > > <http://www.walmart.com/catalog/catalog.gsp?cat=202105&fromPageCatId > > > =20> > > > > > > > <http://www.walmart.com/catalog/catalog.gsp?cat=202105&fromPageCatId > > > =20 > > > <http://www.walmart.com/catalog/catalog.gsp?cat=202105&fromPageCatId > > > =20>> > > > > > 2100&c > > > > > > > > > > > > <http://www.walmart.com/catalog/catalog.gsp?cat=202105&fromPageCatId > > > =2 > > > <http://www.walmart.com/catalog/catalog.gsp?cat=202105&fromPageCatId > > > =2> > > > > > > > <http://www.walmart.com/catalog/catalog.gsp?cat=202105&fromPageCatId > > > =2 > > > <http://www.walmart.com/catalog/catalog.gsp?cat=202105&fromPageCatId > > > =2>> > > > > > 02100&c> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > <http://www.walmart.com/catalog/catalog.gsp?cat=202105&fromPageCatId > > > =2 > > > <http://www.walmart.com/catalog/catalog.gsp?cat=202105&fromPageCatId > > > =2> > > > > > > > <http://www.walmart.com/catalog/catalog.gsp?cat=202105&fromPageCatId > > > =2 > > > <http://www.walmart.com/catalog/catalog.gsp?cat=202105&fromPageCatId > > > =2>> > > > > > 02100&c > > > > > > > > > > > > <http://www.walmart.com/catalog/catalog.gsp?cat=202105&fromPageCatId > > > =2 > > > <http://www.walmart.com/catalog/catalog.gsp?cat=202105&fromPageCatId > > > =2> > > > > > > > <http://www.walmart.com/catalog/catalog.gsp?cat=202105&fromPageCatId > > > =2 > > > <http://www.walmart.com/catalog/catalog.gsp?cat=202105&fromPageCatId > > > =2>> > > > > > 02100&c>> > > > > > > atNavId=202074 > > > > > > > > > > > > Considering the number of tanks that you have, you should > > > > > > order the > > > > > gallon > > > > > > size of API's Tap Water Conditioner from DrsFosterSmith.com, > > > > > > use your account and then you won't have to use junk in your > > > > > > tanks for a year or more. 16 oz. treats 9,600 gallons of water > > > > > > so a gallon would treat close to 80,000 gallons of water. I > > > > > > think that would get you through a year > > > > > or so. > > > > > > ;-) But to be sure, if you do weekly 25% PWC's on all of your > > > > > > tanks, and my last count had you up to around 250 gallons > > > > > > worth of tanks, that > > > > > would be > > > > > > 62.5 gallons a week, times 52 weeks = ONLY 3,250 gallons a > > > > > > year so actually, a 16 oz. bottle of API's Tap Water Dechlor > > > > > > would last you about 4 years. > > > > > > It's only $5.69 for 16 oz. but if you want the gallon size, > > > > > > then that would cost you $31.99 (only $4.00 per 16 oz.) but > > > > > > you would be good for > > > > > about 30 > > > > > > years. ;-) >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 41335	From: Lisa	Date: 6/24/2009
Subject: Is my yabby building a nest?

I want to learn abloy the behaviours of yabbies, so i can understand mine better. Here is a video Of my new yabby. Is she building a nest? http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GWkZE0nkU7o&feature=channel_page

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 41336	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 6/24/2009
Subject: Re: Sexing Angelfish, was: Pleco verse Bristlenose

OK. But now I want to clarify what you are calling "Mystery snails". Mystery snails are actually the common name given to a snail that grows to around 2" and the smaller cousin to the Apple Snail http://www.applesnail.net/ and is not a prolific breeder (in most cases) and is actually purchased by folks as pets to go into their community tanks as part of a clean-up crew and/or tank mate in smaller tanks like 5G tanks, to go with a Betta or other single display fish. They sell for a couple of dollars each in many pet/fish stores. They are not generally known as nuisance snails. Their populations are easy to control since they are egg layers and lay a large (teaspoon size) clutch of eggs above the waterline so if one does not want more Mystery Snails, you can simply scoop the egg clutch out. I just want to be sure you are not calling one of the several species of nuisance snails by the wrong name. Also, there are other ways to control nuisance snails instead of getting clown loaches, including one of the smaller dwarf species of loaches that eat snails and various ways of trapping nuisance snails. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Jasmine Sent: Wednesday, June 24, 2009 1:51 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Sexing Angelfish, was: Pleco verse Bristlenose We purchased the clown loaches to keep the snail population down. Who know that Mystery snails breed so profusely LOL. The clown loaches did a fantastic job too. Since getting the angels, i think i've found a new fish that may keep the population of snails down. I have booked marked the links you have provided, thank you. Jasmine --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@...> wrote: > > Not that it is ever good to lose a fish to disease but the Clown > Loaches were not a suitable fish for your tanks anyhow. They grow to > well over a foot long and should be kept in groups of five or more > with three being a minimal amount. Because of this, they would need a > 6' long tank, at least, to give them proper swimming/growing room. > > For your 36" long tank, you want to keep fish that stay under 6" as > full grown adults and if they are FAST swimming fish, then under 4.5" > as full grown adults. See my blog article for a simple set of > guidelines on stocking a tank so it does not get overstocked. > http://goldlenny.blogspot.com/2007/02/new-rules-guidelines-to-replace-1-per. > html > > Start using http://fish.mongabay.com and use the Search Box to look up > the common names or scientific names of proposed fish, that you might > be thinking about, to see the profiles/care sheets on Mongabay which > are very good. They also show tank size recommendations, water > parameter preferences, breeding info, feeding info, etc., including an > SC section which is for Suggested Companions to help you keep from > making a compatibility match problem. > > You should also quarantine for much longer than a week. Most folks > like to go 3-4 weeks at least. > > I'll let Ray answer the angelfish breeding questions. He's one of the > experts out here on that topic! > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles > referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically > under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month)

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 41337	From: Raymond Wetzel	Date: 6/24/2009
Subject: Re: Angels

Hi Jasmine, Looks like you guys were really talking it up last night at the same time, and after, I was writing my last post. As this was one of the messages being generated while I was composing, I'll start here. Hope your cold is better -- I'm just getting rid of mine, but its been a real rough stretch of days from just before the past weekend, as I was hit with a double-wammy (chest & nasal) cold that left me BEAT. Much better today, but it's still lingering. You might note, by my question on this, that it's no surprise that your Angels WERE bought at different times, as I well knew from your picture of these procedings. What I couldn't know though, was that the Marble (male) was originally paired up with the Silver (female) Angel before adding these two fish with the pre-obtained Koi (female). Your description of these procedings makes perfect sense now, and I'd have to guess that the Silver Angel is somewhat smaller and younger than the Koi. The Koi was a real home-wrecker, huh? LOL. It's no surprise though, in the least, that the Marble was originally paired up with the Silver, with the Koi (large female) overpowering the Silver to succeed at finally pairing up with the Marble. I figured the strength of the Koi (and ONLY this fish's strength) had everything to do with the present bonding situation. A natural selection behavior I've come to learn, of years of observing this species is that -- In an environment of mixed domestic Angelfish color strains in the presence of the wild type (your Silver Angel is considered as close to wild type as possible), the first choice for pair bonding of ANY of the domestic color strains will ALWAYS and INEVITABLY be with the wild form before ANY OTHER color form present - and that includes a possible choice of a same color form. The ONLY reason why your Marble is now paired up with the Koi is that the Silver was overpowered by this stronger (and quite determined) female Koi. Contrary to what some hobbyists prefer to think, Angelfish will select a different mate when the situation is advantageous to them; they do not necessarily pair up for life (unless the hobbyist maintains them as such). This too comes as little surprise, as the second choice of ANY pair bonding in domestic color forms of Angelfish is almost ALWAYS (and just as INEVITABLY) a mate of THE SAME color strain, followed close behind but only after the same color -- a mate having at least some of the genes as does the pairing mate. I would say "ALAWYS" here too, rather than "almost ALWAYS" as I've never observed any other behavior, but there's usually at least one different situation somewhere. Actually, these two last pairings are mutual choices of both partners. In your case, your calico (tri-color, w/black included) Koi has Marble in its genes as Gold Marble is used as one of the fish to develop calico Koi. In the pairing of the wild form in the presence of only domestically developed color strains, ALL of the domestic Angels of opposite sex from the wild form will first be attracted to the wild form before any other choices are considered by them. It will be the choice of the wild form to accept whichever domestic Angel best suits it out of all potential mates. Wish I could fill you in more on the marking (and pimple-like growth) on the Silver Angel. As there is a growth opposite the pigmentation, I'm more inclined to believe it's more than just a marking too, even though I can't see the raised area well. The first impression is that it could be a melanoma, but it's too immature at this point for me to diagnose it as such (and hopefully, I'm completely wrong on that). As long as it doesn't get much worse, I can't see cause to be concerned about it at this point -- as long as it's not bothering the fish. It would serve little purpose anyway to be concerned since we don't know what we're dealing with. As it has made an appearance though, you can only expect it to grow over time -- hopefully slowly and not too soon detrimental to the fish's health. If, by chance, it doesn't grow so much the better. Keep us posted if you see a noticeable change. Ray --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Jasmine" <adonaikam@...> wrote: > > Hi Ray. > > I might add – I found it extremely hard falling asleep last night – was thinking about the angelfishes, then again – it could have been the irritant of my coughing keeping me awake (I have a cold at present). > > The funny thing is, the Kio has been with us the longest. We felt bad that it was on its own and have been keeping an eye out for a nice match for it but decided to get two mature angels which looked like they had paired off (which was the marble and silver female) and 4 baby angels to keep them all company. > > Once we introduced them into the main tank, the Kio took to the marble and chased the silver female away – it was so strange to see. We have seen the female Kio and female Silver in lip tugger-ward twice. > > I don't believe it is just a black dot on the female silver. The is a slight curvature in the location of the dot but because it keeps getting chased, it doesn't stay still long enough to obtain a good shot. I'm not going to worry too much about it at present as it doesn't seem to be doing the fish any harm. > > Jasmine > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Raymond Wetzel" <sevenspringss@> wrote: > > > > Back again Jasmine, Looks like I was writing my last reply to you as you were send these last 4 pics and this message. I just now approved your latest pics, then looked them over. Yep, the "exiled" Silver Angel IS a female, as I first thought. BTW, did you happen to add this fish after you already had the pair (Marble & Koi)? > > > > I had a look at the area you circled on this fish, and if it were just a marking as that triangle-shaped spots appears to be on the one side, I'd say that, that's ALL it is, since today's mixed traits can be expected to show an odd spot here and there at times. But if it's protruding out the other side, it would seem to be some sort of a growth. My older monitor does not show the protrusion well enough for me to see it well. Couldn't tell you what it is, and it would be premature at this stage for me to say it's some kind of internal parasite, but it is odd. Unless someone else can diagnose it, I wouldn't tell you to try to treat it -- it's just good that it's not bothering the fish. You might keep an eye on it, but still, without knowing the cause there's little you could do for it if it protrudes more -- unless it manifests itself as a pimple which you could then use a needle for, along with a topical antibiotic. Ray > > > > > > > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Jasmine" <adonaikam@> wrote: > > > > > > Hi Ray > > > > > > I've managed to get two shots of the 'exiled' angel (right profile and left profile). > > > > > > It certainly doesn't have the same 'hump' on its head as the male you pointed out. I always thought the hump may have been part of the type of angel it was - silly me. > > > > > > Several weeks ago we happen to notice that this same angel has a black pimple like mark - see photo titled 'Exiled angel_03 23.06.09'. This black mark looks like it is protruding out of the other side of the fish - see 'Exiled angel_02 23.06.09'. The mark doesn't seem to be causing any problems but I'm sure it has grown slightly since we first noticed it about 2 months ago. It really reminds me of a black head pimple. > > > > > > I can't get a good shot of that area on the angel (as it hides most of the time). When we get our other tank set up, the eco system all ready and the paired off angels transferred into that tank - I might be able to get a better shot then. > > > > > > Thanks again for you help and advice. > > > Jasmine > > > > > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 41338	From: Jasmine	Date: 6/24/2009
Subject: Re: Sexing Angelfish, was: Pleco verse Bristlenose

Hi Lenny Not its the same snails. They are yellowish and grow to about 2". When we first purchased them, we were told they were hard to breed and not to worry. Then we found our first lot of eggs you described. Not really sure what they were, we left them - mmmm - we ended up with heaps and heaps and heaps of snails. I put some out in the outside pond with the gold fish. I place some in the quarentine tank - we still have one of the original parents. From that time on, we kept removing the eggs until the little blighters decided to go up the outlet pipe and lay eggs up there (a HUGE) sack of them. We kept an eye on that area and kept removing the eggs, then they found another spot that was hard for us to find. So now we keep an eye there too. They are sneaky buggers (ops, am I allowed to say that here!) We just managed to off load about 30 of them leaving us with about 8 fully grown ones. Today we saw a tini tiny baby one - about a couple of days old. There are more eggs somewhere. They must really love the tank. Jasmine --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@...> wrote: > > OK. But now I want to clarify what you are calling "Mystery snails". > Mystery snails are actually the common name given to a snail that grows to > around 2" and the smaller cousin to the Apple Snail > http://www.applesnail.net/ and is not a prolific breeder (in most cases) and > is actually purchased by folks as pets to go into their community tanks as > part of a clean-up crew and/or tank mate in smaller tanks like 5G tanks, to > go with a Betta or other single display fish. They sell for a couple of > dollars each in many pet/fish stores. They are not generally known as > nuisance snails. Their populations are easy to control since they are egg > layers and lay a large (teaspoon size) clutch of eggs above the waterline so > if one does not want more Mystery Snails, you can simply scoop the egg > clutch out. I just want to be sure you are not calling one of the several > species of nuisance snails by the wrong name. Also, there are other ways to > control nuisance snails instead of getting clown loaches, including one of > the smaller dwarf species of loaches that eat snails and various ways of > trapping nuisance snails. > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right > side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On > Behalf Of Jasmine > Sent: Wednesday, June 24, 2009 1:51 AM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Sexing Angelfish, was: Pleco verse Bristlenose > > We purchased the clown loaches to keep the snail population down. Who know > that Mystery snails breed so profusely LOL. The clown loaches did a > fantastic job too. Since getting the angels, i think i've found a new fish > that may keep the population of snails down. > > I have booked marked the links you have provided, thank you. > Jasmine > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@> > wrote: > > > > Not that it is ever good to lose a fish to disease but the Clown > > Loaches were not a suitable fish for your tanks anyhow. They grow to > > well over a foot long and should be kept in groups of five or more > > with three being a minimal amount. Because of this, they would need a > > 6' long tank, at least, to give them proper swimming/growing room. > > > > For your 36" long tank, you want to keep fish that stay under 6" as > > full grown adults and if they are FAST swimming fish, then under 4.5" > > as full grown adults. See my blog article for a simple set of > > guidelines on stocking a tank so it does not get overstocked. > > > http://goldlenny.blogspot.com/2007/02/new-rules-guidelines-to-replace-1-per. > > html > > > > Start using http://fish.mongabay.com and use the Search Box to look up > > the common names or scientific names of proposed fish, that you might > > be thinking about, to see the profiles/care sheets on Mongabay which > > are very good. They also show tank size recommendations, water > > parameter preferences, breeding info, feeding info, etc., including an > > SC section which is for Suggested Companions to help you keep from > > making a compatibility match problem. > > > > You should also quarantine for much longer than a week. Most folks > > like to go 3-4 weeks at least. > > > > I'll let Ray answer the angelfish breeding questions. He's one of the > > experts out here on that topic! > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles > > referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically > > under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 41339	From: Jasmine	Date: 6/24/2009
Subject: Re: Sexing Angelfish, was: Pleco verse Bristlenose

Mystery vs Apple snail I couldn't open your link Lenny but I did Google 'Apple snail' mmm - maybe I've been miss-naming them. I went out and took a photo (which I just added). There are two snails doing the tango - and they look like the Apple Snails. Jasmine --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Jasmine" <adonaikam@...> wrote: > > Hi Lenny > > Not its the same snails. They are yellowish and grow to about 2". > When we first purchased them, we were told they were hard to breed and not to worry. Then we found our first lot of eggs you described. Not really sure what they were, we left them - mmmm - we ended up with heaps and heaps and heaps of snails. > > I put some out in the outside pond with the gold fish. I place some in the quarentine tank - we still have one of the original parents. > > From that time on, we kept removing the eggs until the little blighters decided to go up the outlet pipe and lay eggs up there (a HUGE) sack of them. > > We kept an eye on that area and kept removing the eggs, then they found another spot that was hard for us to find. So now we keep an eye there too. They are sneaky buggers (ops, am I allowed to say that here!) > > We just managed to off load about 30 of them leaving us with about 8 fully grown ones. Today we saw a tini tiny baby one - about a couple of days old. There are more eggs somewhere. > > They must really love the tank. > > Jasmine > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@> wrote: > > > > OK. But now I want to clarify what you are calling "Mystery snails". > > Mystery snails are actually the common name given to a snail that grows to > > around 2" and the smaller cousin to the Apple Snail > > http://www.applesnail.net/ and is not a prolific breeder (in most cases) and > > is actually purchased by folks as pets to go into their community tanks as > > part of a clean-up crew and/or tank mate in smaller tanks like 5G tanks, to > > go with a Betta or other single display fish. They sell for a couple of > > dollars each in many pet/fish stores. They are not generally known as > > nuisance snails. Their populations are easy to control since they are egg > > layers and lay a large (teaspoon size) clutch of eggs above the waterline so > > if one does not want more Mystery Snails, you can simply scoop the egg > > clutch out. I just want to be sure you are not calling one of the several > > species of nuisance snails by the wrong name. Also, there are other ways to > > control nuisance snails instead of getting clown loaches, including one of > > the smaller dwarf species of loaches that eat snails and various ways of > > trapping nuisance snails. > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > > (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right > > side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On > > Behalf Of Jasmine > > Sent: Wednesday, June 24, 2009 1:51 AM > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Sexing Angelfish, was: Pleco verse Bristlenose > > > > We purchased the clown loaches to keep the snail population down. Who know > > that Mystery snails breed so profusely LOL. The clown loaches did a > > fantastic job too. Since getting the angels, i think i've found a new fish > > that may keep the population of snails down. > > > > I have booked marked the links you have provided, thank you. > > Jasmine > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@> > > wrote: > > > > > > Not that it is ever good to lose a fish to disease but the Clown > > > Loaches were not a suitable fish for your tanks anyhow. They grow to > > > well over a foot long and should be kept in groups of five or more > > > with three being a minimal amount. Because of this, they would need a > > > 6' long tank, at least, to give them proper swimming/growing room. > > > > > > For your 36" long tank, you want to keep fish that stay under 6" as > > > full grown adults and if they are FAST swimming fish, then under 4.5" > > > as full grown adults. See my blog article for a simple set of > > > guidelines on stocking a tank so it does not get overstocked. > > > > > http://goldlenny.blogspot.com/2007/02/new-rules-guidelines-to-replace-1-per. > > > html > > > > > > Start using http://fish.mongabay.com and use the Search Box to look up > > > the common names or scientific names of proposed fish, that you might > > > be thinking about, to see the profiles/care sheets on Mongabay which > > > are very good. They also show tank size recommendations, water > > > parameter preferences, breeding info, feeding info, etc., including an > > > SC section which is for Suggested Companions to help you keep from > > > making a compatibility match problem. > > > > > > You should also quarantine for much longer than a week. Most folks > > > like to go 3-4 weeks at least. > > > > > > I'll let Ray answer the angelfish breeding questions. He's one of the > > > experts out here on that topic! > > > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles > > > referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically > > > under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) > > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 41340	From: Raymond Wetzel	Date: 6/24/2009
Subject: Re: ANGELFISH, Once again

Yes, I think they turned out well; took a bit of work in developing them, but then I enjoy working in Angelfish genetics. The gene pool out there is so vast, that many strains can be developed by working with these fish either via the established and more obvious way (such using Black Lace to get Black), or the more unorthodox method of obtain the Black via selection of the pigment in Dark Marble on a solid Chocolate-patterned fish. As they say, there's more than one way to skin a cat (or is it, catfish? LOL). Sorry, I don't have photos of them. If I had, and it would be on slide film if I did (which I should see to photographing them), I would either have to buy a slide scanner, or transfer them to a digital disk. Either way, I wouldn't have the first notion of what to do next, as I'm not at all computer literate enough to know how to go about posting pics -- even if I had a digital camera. And, having 5 SLR film cameras and preferring slide film over digital, I'm not intended to change my preferences of format. Ray --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Jasmine" <adonaikam@...> wrote: > > WOW, your angelfish sound really nice. Do you have any photos of them? > > Jasmine > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Raymond Wetzel" <sevenspringss@> wrote: > > > > Nice looking Angelfish you have, in that dark one, even though I couldn't call it a Black Angelfish. I'd have to call it a Black Lace with obvious Dark Marble mixed in. Still attractive though. > > > > Yes, unfortunately most of the solid black Angelfish have disappeared from the hobby. Even the "better" ones today are not pitch black and certainly not the velvety-black of years ago. Today's "Black" Angelfish show the dark black barring of the original wild type. > > > > When Joe's question on this was asked a while back, I thought I had replied I was breeding them, but then maybe I had posted something on that on another Forum. No longer seeing this solid velvet black Angel on the market, I was concerned enough to want to do something about it. Over the past years, I've been selectively line breeding Chocolate Angelfish to create full coverage of the pattern on the fish. At the same time, I've also been selectively line breeding double-dose (dark) Marbles, effectively getting to the point of having near-complete solid black in them. Then, more recently, I've been crossing these two lines and selectively breeding the result, which has given me the black coverage I've been looking for. A completely different way of obtaining the results, but there can be no solid black barring of the wild genes showing through. Ray > > > > > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Jasmine" <adonaikam@> wrote: > > > > > > I thought I had a really nice black angel - slightly different dorsal fin to all the rest of my angels but, when I tried taking photos of it tonight, the camera showed me 'tourer shell' colours reflecting off the angel. > > > > > > I haven't seen any pitch black ones except in books. > > > > > > Good luck in finding one. > > > Jasmine > > > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "jett07002" <jett07002@> wrote: > > > > > > > > Ray, \\Steve//, Lenny and anyone else interested in Angelfish. > > > > > > > > I asked once a long time ago, and now I am asking again. Have any of you guys run across any real BLACK angels like we used to have back in the 80s early 90s? > > > > > > > > Since I have asked back then, and all (Ray, \\Steve//, and Lenny) have graciously answered in the negative, I am still searching for a comeback on the black angel as they were back then. > > > > > > > > I have run across some angels where the black color has "really been improved" according to the folks trying to sell them. Maybe my eyes are starting to fail me, but they do not look the same to me. > > > > > > > > joe t > > > > > > > > > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 41341	From: bill 1433	Date: 6/24/2009
Subject: Re: Tap water Baseline testing

Hi Amber, You already knew what I was getting at! Wanted to see if the GH and KH were in your Master Test Kit or an extra purchase. Bill --- On Tue, 6/23/09, Amber Berglund <amber@...> wrote: > From: Amber Berglund <amber@...> > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Tap water Baseline testing > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Date: Tuesday, June 23, 2009, 11:06 PM > API master test kit and extra API > test kits for GH and KH, everything is > API. > > Amber > > bill 1433 wrote: > > > > > > > > Amber, > >  > > If you don't mind?  The name or manufacture of > the test kit your using > > please? > >  > > Bill > > > > --- On Tue, 6/23/09, Amber Berglund <amber@... > > > <mailto:amber%40rose-fields.com>> wrote: > > > > From: Amber Berglund <amber@... > > > <mailto:amber%40rose-fields.com>> > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Tap water Baseline testing > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > Date: Tuesday, June 23, 2009, 9:58 PM > > > > Tapwater baseline testing 24 hours > > > > pH: 6.8 > > > > Ammonia: 0 > > Nitrite: 0 > > Nitrate: 0 > > GH: 50 ppm > > KH:1 drop, or close to 0 ppm again > > > > ------------------------------------ > > > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when > replying, Thank You. > > > ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> > ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> > > PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that > is NOT > > important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of > the original message > > MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was > re: old subject)" <- > > > <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. > , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. > > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. > > > > If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead > of unsubscribing, > > you can change your delivery option by clicking on > "Edit My > > Membership" on the home page. > > > > Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com > > > <mailto:aquaticlife-digest%40yahoogroups.com> to > receive the digest, > > which includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single > email > > > > Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com > > > <mailto:aquaticlife-nomail%40yahoogroups.com> > for the No E-Mail option > > where you will still be able to read messages on the > group and post > > replies. > > > > Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com > > > <mailto:aquaticlife-normal%40yahoogroups.com> to > receive individual > > e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > > ------------------------------------ > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when > replying, Thank You. > ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> > ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> > PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is > NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of > the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new > subject (was re: old subject)" <- > <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. > , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. > > If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of > unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by > clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the home page.  > > Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com > to receive the digest, which includes up to 25 posts at a > time in a single email > > Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com > for the No E-Mail option where you will still be able to > read messages on the group and post replies. > > Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com > to receive individual e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links > > >     mailto:AquaticLife-fullfeatured@yahoogroups.com > > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 41342	From: Raymond Wetzel	Date: 6/24/2009
Subject: Re: Severum fungus?

Lenny, Steve, In checking out the two pics, I too seem to see the same thing on this fish as you do -- a very possible protrusion from this viewpoint, rather than any Fungus as it first sounded, as decribed having a cottony growth. Might just BE a cyst, as you stated, although I didn't magnify it -- but that's my take on it. Can't say if it's operable; might be, depending on where it's originating from. The fish would need to be removed from the tank and inverted to observed whether the growth is starting from under the gill plate or just originating at the point immediately below the gill plate where you see it. If it is a growth (and many are removeable), you might want to ask your LFS owner if he could assist you. Always easier with two people. You may only need to puncture it if it's liquid-filled, and use a topical antibiotic to coat it, then use Melafix as an antibiotic for the water column you're putting him back in. Ray --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@...> wrote: > > Both Ray and I stated you should start with the Furan Two immediately. If > that doesn't do the trick and if it starts looking to be bacterial > (Flexibacter Columnaris), then the added antibiotic, Kanamycin, might be > needed but from looking at your pics, I do not see any of the tell-tale > redness associated with Columnaris but it doesn't always present itself > right away. > > I also am not sure it's definitely a fungus but will have to rely on you for > that since pictures are never as good as looking at something first hand. > The picture that is more from the side view kind of looks like it is fungal > but the front view almost looks like it could be a growth coming out from > under the operculum (gill cover) and protrudes out a LOT, almost like it's a > cyst or something like that. It does not appear very fuzzy to me like a > fungus would appear but once again, it could just be the pictures. I even > blew up the pictures 400% (using the IE8 magnifier - bottom right of an IE > window frame) and it looked even more like a cyst protruding out from under > the gill cover but I could then see some fuzziness right above the "cyst" on > the edge of the gill cover. Of course, blowing up the picture that large > made the entire pic more grainy so I'm still not sure if the fuzziness was > from the disease or the photo quality. One of the reasons it looks like a > cyst is that you can see a bulbous shape, actually looks like two bulbous > shapes, and the upper one is reflecting the lighting off of it from the > flash. Also, the two bulbous shapes create a distinct circular shadow on > the skin of the fish behind the bulbous shapes. If it was a fungus, there > would not be a distinct and defined shadow like that. I then blew it up to > 600% (using the Custom menu) and at 600%, I could start to see some > pinkish/reddish coloration on the front lower lobe of what I am calling a > cyst. > > This "cyst" that I am seeing does not preclude what you might be seeing as a > fungus since the cyst could be causing or a result of another injury and > that other injury could be infested with the fungus. Unfortunately, the > bigger I blow up the image, the grainier it gets which makes seeing fuzz a > lot harder. > > After seeing all of this, I would go with the Furan Two and the antibiotic > treatment since you may have to aspirate this cyst if it continues to grow > and since I do see some pinkish/reddish area, that lends itself to a > bacterial infection which might warrant an antibiotic treatment. > > Hopefully Ray, \\Steve// or one of the many other folks familiar with > disease issues will show up and give a better diagnosis. > > DISCLAIMER - I'm not a doctor but I did play doctor when I was a kid. Gee, > I sure miss the neighbor girl who played nurse with me. ;-) Hey, that's the > best I can do to try and lighten things up and on short notice. LOL > > No time for a song tonight. > > OK.. maybe a short start to the chorus... > > Doctor, Doctor, please don't be mum > I got a bad case of a sick Severum! > > Someone else has to finish that one. ;-) > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right > side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) > > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On > Behalf Of Steve Biondi > Sent: Tuesday, June 23, 2009 11:52 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Severum fungus? > > Yo,Lenny , Steve and group > > Would you take a peek at my photos in the album called Steve's Severums? Any > ideas as to the best cure are greatly appreciated. Steve gave me a > suggestion before I posted the pictures. > > Thanks, Steve > > _____ > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On > Behalf Of Lenny V. aka GoldLenny > Sent: Tuesday, June 23, 2009 3:55 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Severum fungus? > > > > > > Steve, > > Did you try to email the pics? If so, they will not come through. This group > does not allow attachments (as most groups shouldn't as it's too easy for > viruses/malware to be spread that way). In order to show us your pics, you > will need to upload them to your own online photo album (Flickr, Webshots, > etc.) and give us the links or you can upload them to the Group's Photos > section, into your own folder and then let us know so we can go look at > them. > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> blogspot.com > (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right > side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com > [mailto:AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com] > On Behalf Of Steve Biondi > Sent: Tuesday, June 23, 2009 1:59 PM > To: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com > Subject: [AquaticLife] Severum fungus? > > Hi All, > > Here are the pictures of my green Severum that appears to have some fungus > near the gills. I am hoping that you gurus can recognize it and tell me what > I should use to treat it. Thanks for all your help. > > Steve >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 41343	From: bill 1433	Date: 6/24/2009
Subject: Re: Angels

Hi Jasmine,   I have been following along here but missed a link?  Can you help?  Where are these pictures you posted or under what folder? Can you give a link?   Bill --- On Wed, 6/24/09, Raymond Wetzel <sevenspringss@...> wrote: From: Raymond Wetzel <sevenspringss@...> Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Angels To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Date: Wednesday, June 24, 2009, 8:40 AM Hi Jasmine,  Looks like you guys were really talking it up last night at the same time, and after, I was writing my last post.  As this was one of the messages being generated while I was composing, I'll start here.  Hope your cold is better -- I'm just getting rid of mine, but its been a real rough stretch of days from just before the past weekend, as I was hit with a double-wammy (chest & nasal) cold that left me BEAT.  Much better today, but it's still lingering. You might note, by my question on this, that it's no surprise that your Angels WERE bought at different times, as I well knew from your picture of these procedings.  What I couldn't know though, was that the Marble (male) was originally paired up with the Silver (female) Angel before adding these two fish with the pre-obtained Koi (female).  Your description of these procedings makes perfect sense now, and I'd have to guess that the Silver Angel is somewhat smaller and younger than the Koi.  The Koi was a real home-wrecker, huh? LOL.  It's no surprise though, in the least, that the Marble was originally paired up with the Silver, with the Koi (large female) overpowering the Silver to succeed at finally pairing up with the Marble.  I figured the strength of the Koi (and ONLY this fish's strength) had everything to do with the present bonding situation. A natural selection behavior I've come to learn, of years of observing this species is that -- In an environment of mixed domestic Angelfish color strains in the presence of the wild type (your Silver Angel is considered as close to wild type as possible), the first choice for pair bonding of ANY of the domestic color strains will ALWAYS and INEVITABLY be with the wild form before ANY OTHER color form present - and that includes a possible choice of a same color form.  The ONLY reason why your Marble is now paired up with the Koi is that the Silver was overpowered by this stronger (and quite determined) female Koi.  Contrary to what some hobbyists prefer to think, Angelfish will select a different mate when the situation is advantageous to them; they do not necessarily pair up for life (unless the hobbyist maintains them as such).    This too comes as little surprise, as the second choice of ANY pair bonding in domestic color forms of Angelfish is almost ALWAYS (and just as INEVITABLY) a mate of THE SAME color strain, followed close behind but only after the same color -- a mate having at least some of the genes as does the pairing mate.  I would say "ALAWYS" here too, rather than "almost ALWAYS" as I've never observed any other behavior, but there's usually at least one different situation somewhere.  Actually, these two last pairings are mutual choices of both partners.  In your case, your calico (tri-color, w/black included) Koi has Marble in its genes as Gold Marble is used as one of the fish to develop calico Koi.  In the pairing of the wild form in the presence of only domestically developed color strains, ALL of the domestic Angels of opposite sex from the wild form will first be attracted to the wild form before any other choices are considered by them.  It will be the choice of the wild form to accept whichever domestic Angel best suits it out of all potential mates. Wish I could fill you in more on the marking (and pimple-like growth) on the Silver Angel.  As there is a growth opposite the pigmentation, I'm more inclined to believe it's more than just a marking too, even though I can't see the raised area well.  The first impression is that it could be a melanoma, but it's too immature at this point for me to diagnose it as such (and hopefully, I'm completely wrong on that).  As long as it doesn't get much worse, I can't see cause to be concerned about it at this point -- as long as it's not bothering the fish.  It would serve little purpose anyway to be concerned since we don't know what we're dealing with.  As it has made an appearance though, you can only expect it to grow over time -- hopefully slowly and not too soon detrimental to the fish's health.  If, by chance, it doesn't grow so much the better.  Keep us posted if you see a noticeable change.  Ray   --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Jasmine" <adonaikam@...> wrote: > > Hi Ray. > > I might add – I found it extremely hard falling asleep last night – was thinking about the angelfishes, then again – it could have been the irritant of my coughing keeping me awake (I have a cold at present). > > The funny thing is, the Kio has been with us the longest.  We felt bad that it was on its own and have been keeping an eye out for a nice match for it but decided to get two mature angels which looked like they had paired off (which was the marble and silver female) and 4 baby angels to keep them all company. > > Once we introduced them into the main tank, the Kio took to the marble and chased the silver female away – it was so strange to see.  We have seen the female Kio and female Silver in lip tugger-ward twice. > > I don't believe it is just a black dot on the female silver.  The is a slight curvature in the location of the dot but because it keeps getting chased, it doesn't stay still long enough to obtain a good shot.  I'm not going to worry too much about it at present as it doesn't seem to be doing the fish any harm. > > Jasmine > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Raymond Wetzel" <sevenspringss@> wrote: > > > > Back again Jasmine,  Looks like I was writing my last reply to you as you were send these last 4 pics and this message.  I just now approved your latest pics, then looked them over.  Yep, the "exiled" Silver Angel IS a female, as I first thought.  BTW, did you happen to add this fish after you already had the pair (Marble & Koi)? > > > > I had a look at the area you circled on this fish, and if it were just a marking as that triangle-shaped spots appears to be on the one side, I'd say that, that's ALL it is, since today's mixed traits can be expected to show an odd spot here and there at times.  But if it's protruding out the other side, it would seem to be some sort of a growth.  My older monitor does not show the protrusion well enough for me to see it well.  Couldn't tell you what it is, and it would be premature at this stage for me to say it's some kind of internal parasite, but it is odd.  Unless someone else can diagnose it, I wouldn't tell you to try to treat it -- it's just good that it's not bothering the fish.  You might keep an eye on it, but still, without knowing the cause there's little you could do for it if it protrudes more -- unless it manifests itself as a pimple which you could then use a needle for, along with a topical antibiotic.  Ray > > > >  > > > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Jasmine" <adonaikam@> wrote: > > > > > > Hi Ray > > > > > > I've managed to get two shots of the 'exiled' angel (right profile and left profile). > > > > > > It certainly doesn't have the same 'hump' on its head as the male you pointed out.  I always thought the hump may have been part of the type of angel it was - silly me. > > > > > > Several weeks ago we happen to notice that this same angel has a black pimple like mark - see photo titled 'Exiled angel_03 23.06.09'.  This black mark looks like it is protruding out of the other side of the fish - see 'Exiled angel_02 23.06.09'.  The mark doesn't seem to be causing any problems but I'm sure it has grown slightly since we first noticed it about 2 months ago.  It really reminds me of a black head pimple. > > > > > > I can't get a good shot of that area on the angel (as it hides most of the time).  When we get our other tank set up, the eco system all ready and the paired off angels transferred into that tank - I might be able to get a better shot then. > > > > > > Thanks again for you help and advice. > > > Jasmine > > > > > > ------------------------------------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the home page.  Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com to receive the digest, which includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com for the No E-Mail option where you will still be able to read messages on the group and post replies. Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com to receive individual e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 41344	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 6/24/2009
Subject: Re: Tap water Baseline testing

I had a feeling I knew what you were asking without saying it, LOL. I purchased the API master test kit first, then when I set up the walstad tank I got the GH and KH test kit so I could add coral to the tank and watch the GH and KH at the same time. I got API test kits just because I'm already familiar with them and figured it would be the easiest way to go ;) I'm curious to see what my pH is going to be tonight... Should I go over 48 hours on testing or is that plenty? Amber bill 1433 wrote: > > > > Hi Amber, > > You already knew what I was getting at! Wanted to see if the GH and KH > were in your Master Test Kit or an extra purchase. > > Bill > > --- On Tue, 6/23/09, Amber Berglund <amber@... > <mailto:amber%40rose-fields.com>> wrote: > > > From: Amber Berglund <amber@... > <mailto:amber%40rose-fields.com>> > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Tap water Baseline testing > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > Date: Tuesday, June 23, 2009, 11:06 PM > > API master test kit and extra API > > test kits for GH and KH, everything is > > API. > > > > Amber > > > > bill 1433 wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > Amber, > > > > > > If you don't mind? The name or manufacture of > > the test kit your using > > > please? > > > > > > Bill > > > > > > --- On Tue, 6/23/09, Amber Berglund <amber@... > <mailto:amber%40rose-fields.com> > > > > > <mailto:amber%40rose-fields.com>> wrote: > > > > > > From: Amber Berglund <amber@... > <mailto:amber%40rose-fields.com> > > > > > <mailto:amber%40rose-fields.com>> > > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Tap water Baseline testing > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > Date: Tuesday, June 23, 2009, 9:58 PM > > > > > > Tapwater baseline testing 24 hours > > > > > > pH: 6.8 > > > > > > Ammonia: 0 > > > Nitrite: 0 > > > Nitrate: 0 > > > GH: 50 ppm > > > KH:1 drop, or close to 0 ppm again > > > > > > ------------------------------------ > > > > > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when > > replying, Thank You. > > > > > ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> > > ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> > > > PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that > > is NOT > > > important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of > > the original message > > > MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was > > re: old subject)" <- > > > > > <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. > > , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. > > > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. > > > > > > If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead > > of unsubscribing, > > > you can change your delivery option by clicking on > > "Edit My > > > Membership" on the home page. > > > > > > Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:aquaticlife-digest%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > <mailto:aquaticlife-digest%40yahoogroups.com> to > > receive the digest, > > > which includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single > > email > > > > > > Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:aquaticlife-nomail%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > <mailto:aquaticlife-nomail%40yahoogroups.com> > > for the No E-Mail option > > > where you will still be able to read messages on the > > group and post > > > replies. > > > > > > Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:aquaticlife-normal%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > <mailto:aquaticlife-normal%40yahoogroups.com> to > > receive individual > > > e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > > > > > > > ------------------------------------ > > > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when > > replying, Thank You. > > ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> > > ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> > > PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is > > NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of > > the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new > > subject (was re: old subject)" <- > > <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. > > , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. > > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. > > > > If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of > > unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by > > clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the home page. > > > > Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:aquaticlife-digest%40yahoogroups.com> > > to receive the digest, which includes up to 25 posts at a > > time in a single email > > > > Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:aquaticlife-nomail%40yahoogroups.com> > > for the No E-Mail option where you will still be able to > > read messages on the group and post replies. > > > > Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:aquaticlife-normal%40yahoogroups.com> > > to receive individual e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > mailto:AquaticLife-fullfeatured@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife-fullfeatured%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 41345	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 6/24/2009
Subject: Re: Angels

They're in the group folders under "Jasmine" I believe... She has some very pretty Angel's. Amber bill 1433 wrote: > > > > Hi Jasmine, > > I have been following along here but missed a link? Can you help? > Where are these pictures you posted or under what folder? Can you give > a link? > > Bill > > --- On Wed, 6/24/09, Raymond Wetzel <sevenspringss@... > <mailto:sevenspringss%40wmconnect.com>> wrote: > > From: Raymond Wetzel <sevenspringss@... > <mailto:sevenspringss%40wmconnect.com>> > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Angels > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Date: Wednesday, June 24, 2009, 8:40 AM > > Hi Jasmine, Looks like you guys were really talking it up last night > at the same time, and after, I was writing my last post. As this was > one of the messages being generated while I was composing, I'll start > here. Hope your cold is better -- I'm just getting rid of mine, but > its been a real rough stretch of days from just before the past > weekend, as I was hit with a double-wammy (chest & nasal) cold that > left me BEAT. Much better today, but it's still lingering. > > You might note, by my question on this, that it's no surprise that > your Angels WERE bought at different times, as I well knew from your > picture of these procedings. What I couldn't know though, was that > the Marble (male) was originally paired up with the Silver (female) > Angel before adding these two fish with the pre-obtained Koi > (female). Your description of these procedings makes perfect sense > now, and I'd have to guess that the Silver Angel is somewhat smaller > and younger than the Koi. The Koi was a real home-wrecker, huh? LOL. > It's no surprise though, in the least, that the Marble was originally > paired up with the Silver, with the Koi (large female) overpowering > the Silver to succeed at finally pairing up with the Marble. I > figured the strength of the Koi (and ONLY this fish's strength) had > everything to do with the present bonding situation. > > A natural selection behavior I've come to learn, of years of observing > this species is that -- In an environment of mixed domestic Angelfish > color strains in the presence of the wild type (your Silver Angel is > considered as close to wild type as possible), the first choice for > pair bonding of ANY of the domestic color strains will ALWAYS and > INEVITABLY be with the wild form before ANY OTHER color form present - > and that includes a possible choice of a same color form. The ONLY > reason why your Marble is now paired up with the Koi is that the > Silver was overpowered by this stronger (and quite determined) female > Koi. Contrary to what some hobbyists prefer to think, Angelfish will > select a different mate when the situation is advantageous to them; > they do not necessarily pair up for life (unless the hobbyist > maintains them as such). > > This too comes as little surprise, as the second choice of ANY pair > bonding in domestic color forms of Angelfish is almost ALWAYS (and > just as INEVITABLY) a mate of THE SAME color strain, followed close > behind but only after the same color -- a mate having at least some of > the genes as does the pairing mate. I would say "ALAWYS" here too, > rather than "almost ALWAYS" as I've never observed any other behavior, > but there's usually at least one different situation somewhere. > Actually, these two last pairings are mutual choices of both > partners. In your case, your calico (tri-color, w/black included) Koi > has Marble in its genes as Gold Marble is used as one of the fish to > develop calico Koi. > > In the pairing of the wild form in the presence of only domestically > developed color strains, ALL of the domestic Angels of opposite sex > from the wild form will first be attracted to the wild form before any > other choices are considered by them. It will be the choice of the > wild form to accept whichever domestic Angel best suits it out of all > potential mates. > > Wish I could fill you in more on the marking (and pimple-like growth) > on the Silver Angel. As there is a growth opposite the pigmentation, > I'm more inclined to believe it's more than just a marking too, even > though I can't see the raised area well. The first impression is that > it could be a melanoma, but it's too immature at this point for me to > diagnose it as such (and hopefully, I'm completely wrong on that). As > long as it doesn't get much worse, I can't see cause to be concerned > about it at this point -- as long as it's not bothering the fish. It > would serve little purpose anyway to be concerned since we don't know > what we're dealing with. As it has made an appearance though, you can > only expect it to grow over time -- hopefully slowly and not too soon > detrimental to the fish's health. If, by chance, it doesn't grow so > much the better. Keep us posted if you see a noticeable change. Ray > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>, "Jasmine" <adonaikam@...> wrote: > > > > Hi Ray. > > > > I might add – I found it extremely hard falling asleep last night – > was thinking about the angelfishes, then again – it could have been > the irritant of my coughing keeping me awake (I have a cold at present). > > > > The funny thing is, the Kio has been with us the longest. We felt > bad that it was on its own and have been keeping an eye out for a nice > match for it but decided to get two mature angels which looked like > they had paired off (which was the marble and silver female) and 4 > baby angels to keep them all company. > > > > Once we introduced them into the main tank, the Kio took to the > marble and chased the silver female away – it was so strange to see. > We have seen the female Kio and female Silver in lip tugger-ward twice. > > > > I don't believe it is just a black dot on the female silver. The is > a slight curvature in the location of the dot but because it keeps > getting chased, it doesn't stay still long enough to obtain a good > shot. I'm not going to worry too much about it at present as it > doesn't seem to be doing the fish any harm. > > > > Jasmine > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>, "Raymond Wetzel" > <sevenspringss@> wrote: > > > > > > Back again Jasmine, Looks like I was writing my last reply to you > as you were send these last 4 pics and this message. I just now > approved your latest pics, then looked them over. Yep, the "exiled" > Silver Angel IS a female, as I first thought. BTW, did you happen to > add this fish after you already had the pair (Marble & Koi)? > > > > > > I had a look at the area you circled on this fish, and if it were > just a marking as that triangle-shaped spots appears to be on the one > side, I'd say that, that's ALL it is, since today's mixed traits can > be expected to show an odd spot here and there at times. But if it's > protruding out the other side, it would seem to be some sort of a > growth. My older monitor does not show the protrusion well enough for > me to see it well. Couldn't tell you what it is, and it would be > premature at this stage for me to say it's some kind of internal > parasite, but it is odd. Unless someone else can diagnose it, I > wouldn't tell you to try to treat it -- it's just good that it's not > bothering the fish. You might keep an eye on it, but still, without > knowing the cause there's little you could do for it if it protrudes > more -- unless it manifests itself as a pimple which you could then > use a needle for, along with a topical antibiotic. Ray > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>, "Jasmine" <adonaikam@> wrote: > > > > > > > > Hi Ray > > > > > > > > I've managed to get two shots of the 'exiled' angel (right > profile and left profile). > > > > > > > > It certainly doesn't have the same 'hump' on its head as the > male you pointed out. I always thought the hump may have been part of > the type of angel it was - silly me. > > > > > > > > Several weeks ago we happen to notice that this same angel has a > black pimple like mark - see photo titled 'Exiled angel_03 23.06.09'. > This black mark looks like it is protruding out of the other side of > the fish - see 'Exiled angel_02 23.06.09'. The mark doesn't seem to > be causing any problems but I'm sure it has grown slightly since we > first noticed it about 2 months ago. It really reminds me of a black > head pimple. > > > > > > > > I can't get a good shot of that area on the angel (as it hides > most of the time). When we get our other tank set up, the eco system > all ready and the paired off angels transferred into that tank - I > might be able to get a better shot then. > > > > > > > > Thanks again for you help and advice. > > > > Jasmine > > > > > > > > > > > ------------------------------------ > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. > ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> > PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT > important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message > MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- > <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. > > If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of unsubscribing, > you can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My > Membership" on the home page. > > Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:aquaticlife-digest%40yahoogroups.com> to receive the digest, > which includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email > > Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:aquaticlife-nomail%40yahoogroups.com> for the No E-Mail option > where you will still be able to read messages on the group and post > replies. > > Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:aquaticlife-normal%40yahoogroups.com> to receive individual > e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 41346	From: Raymond Wetzel	Date: 6/24/2009
Subject: Re: Sexing Angelfish, was: Pleco verse Bristlenose

Hi Jasmine, Alright, I noticed you had no trouble re-captioning the Male Marble Angel. I approved your last pic -- Mystery Snails -- a couple hours ago, so that should have all you pics in your album. Always neat to see the parents raising their fry. BTW, since you're asking, it's FRY whether singular or pleural -- same as the singular of fish is FISH and the pleural of two or more of the same species of fish is also FISH (the pleural of two or more difference species is actually FISHES, even though it may sound somewhat strange in certain contexts to the untrained ear). If you're thinking of raising the fry with the parents you'll need a tank at least as large as your currently main tank -- and a 4' tank would not be too large to transfer them to after 4 weeks. Angelfish spawns can number on the average of 200 to 250 fry, sometimes less (like 150 - 175), but then sometimes more (up to 400 or so); partly as as result of how well you condition them -- on what foods and how often. A spawn of 400 Angels will require two 4' tanks to comfortable raise them to selling size -- unless you plan on every other day PWC's. Sorry to hear about the Ich (white-spot) outbreak causing the deaths of your Clown Loaches. If you ever decide on getting these fish again, be sure to make prior arrangement with the store owner to be able to trade them in for smaller ones as the first group (and you should preferably have 4 or 5) of them get too large. They grow somewhat slower than many other fish, but they'll get to 12". Along these same lines, your Silver (Bala) Sharks will get to between 15" and 18", so be forewarned that they'll be outgrowing your tank -- AND they grow fast. Your Tetras will not be safe with them. Getting back to the juvenile Angelfish (at 4 weeks of age), since you'd probably have at least 200 of them, it would not be a good idea to put them into the main tank at this stage. They will still be only about 3/4 the size of a dime, and would be fair game for the Silver Sharks (which you should look into re-homing), not to mention promoting crowded conditions for the rest of the main tank's fish as they grow to selling size. You would need to get another fish tank. Ray --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Jasmine" <adonaikam@...> wrote: > > Hi Ray > I guess I wasn't use to not seeing the photos get filed straight away. I normally would go back and check to see if I had posted it first before attempting to add another one (I get distracted by a cat at times)  > > I updated the name on the one I had posted as female to `Male Marble Angle' – I wasn't sure if i could updated the photo captions but played around and fun that I could – thanks. > > Due to the current accommodation sizing in the house, I think I would like to see the parents raise the frys (do you call baby angles Frys?) on their own if possible. We currently have a 3foot tank (that is our main tank) and a 18" length tank which is our hospital/quarantine tank. We currently have it set up for the last lot of fish / plants we purchased. We quarantine them for a week, they all looked good however, while transferring the last of the fishes (Clown loaches) to the main tank – thats when I spoted `white spot'. I had a closer look at the tetras we purchased and silver sharks – they had white spots on them also. I ended up losing all my clown loaches (including the ones in the main tank because I had infected the tank too) The main tank is fine now though. > > The two tertras that are left look healthy now, its been over a week since the spots have gone. The plants are thriving, roots and stems and leaves coming out everywhere. So was thinking of moving them over to the main tank over the weekend (about 4 days time). Then we will bring in the spare aquarium from the garage and set it up for the Koi and Marble angel fish. > > So should we tank the juvies out of the tank (after 4 weeks) leaving the parents by themselves? Would we be able to put the juvies in the main tank with the other fish or would we be looking at getting another fish tank? > > Jasmine > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Raymond Wetzel" <sevenspringss@> wrote: > > > > I figured as much on the dupes. No problem, that's all part of why we first approve them before they're filed in Photos. I thought I might change the caption on your male Angel to state just that (instead of your believing it's a female. In this way, anyone looking at that pic in the future won't be mislead. > > > > Yes, always best to have the pair in a tank of their own. Before doing so, you need to decide if you're going to pull the eggs out and raise them by themselves (which would require another tank) or whether you want to try to have the pair raise them (which would require a larger tank to accomodate all the fish). Please know that, if you decide on having the parents raise them (if they will), you will still need to move the juveniles to a large tank of their own, at about 4 weeks of age, and well before selling size. Otherwise, a minimum tank size for just the pair would be a 20 gallon high, although they'd be more comfortable in a 29. > > > > To leave the juveniles with the parents after 4 weeks is to invite the inevitable mutilation of the pair's fins and skin by the juvies as they attempt to eat the slime secretion that the parents produce, in addition to what you'd already be feeding them -- similar to how Discus feed (this is called "contacting" in Cichlids) -- only, Angelfish parents cannot produce nearly as much body mucous. Instead, their fins get descimated, and if allowed to continue, their skin doesn't fair much better. Ray >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 41347	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 6/24/2009
Subject: Re: Sexing Angelfish, was: Pleco verse Bristlenose

Good thing I read this... Sounds like I may be transferring the fry into my 55 gallon upstairs and the 125 gallon downstairs. I suppose it depends on if they don't eat them, I'll cross that bridge later. The LFS still has juvi angel's in stock, about the size of a quarter, they're cute though. I might end up being a seller on aquabid if my Angel's keep spawning so often ;) LOL Amber Raymond Wetzel wrote: > > > Hi Jasmine, Alright, I noticed you had no trouble re-captioning the > Male Marble Angel. I approved your last pic -- Mystery Snails -- a > couple hours ago, so that should have all you pics in your album. > > Always neat to see the parents raising their fry. BTW, since you're > asking, it's FRY whether singular or pleural -- same as the singular > of fish is FISH and the pleural of two or more of the same species of > fish is also FISH (the pleural of two or more difference species is > actually FISHES, even though it may sound somewhat strange in certain > contexts to the untrained ear). > > If you're thinking of raising the fry with the parents you'll need a > tank at least as large as your currently main tank -- and a 4' tank > would not be too large to transfer them to after 4 weeks. Angelfish > spawns can number on the average of 200 to 250 fry, sometimes less > (like 150 - 175), but then sometimes more (up to 400 or so); partly as > as result of how well you condition them -- on what foods and how > often. A spawn of 400 Angels will require two 4' tanks to comfortable > raise them to selling size -- unless you plan on every other day PWC's. > > Sorry to hear about the Ich (white-spot) outbreak causing the deaths > of your Clown Loaches. If you ever decide on getting these fish again, > be sure to make prior arrangement with the store owner to be able to > trade them in for smaller ones as the first group (and you should > preferably have 4 or 5) of them get too large. They grow somewhat > slower than many other fish, but they'll get to 12". Along these same > lines, your Silver (Bala) Sharks will get to between 15" and 18", so > be forewarned that they'll be outgrowing your tank -- AND they grow > fast. Your Tetras will not be safe with them. > > Getting back to the juvenile Angelfish (at 4 weeks of age), since > you'd probably have at least 200 of them, it would not be a good idea > to put them into the main tank at this stage. They will still be only > about 3/4 the size of a dime, and would be fair game for the Silver > Sharks (which you should look into re-homing), not to mention > promoting crowded conditions for the rest of the main tank's fish as > they grow to selling size. You would need to get another fish tank. Ray > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>, "Jasmine" <adonaikam@...> wrote: > > > > Hi Ray > > I guess I wasn't use to not seeing the photos get filed straight > away. I normally would go back and check to see if I had posted it > first before attempting to add another one (I get distracted by a cat > at times)  > > > > I updated the name on the one I had posted as female to `Male Marble > Angle' – I wasn't sure if i could updated the photo captions but > played around and fun that I could – thanks. > > > > Due to the current accommodation sizing in the house, I think I > would like to see the parents raise the frys (do you call baby angles > Frys?) on their own if possible. We currently have a 3foot tank (that > is our main tank) and a 18" length tank which is our > hospital/quarantine tank. We currently have it set up for the last lot > of fish / plants we purchased. We quarantine them for a week, they all > looked good however, while transferring the last of the fishes (Clown > loaches) to the main tank – thats when I spoted `white spot'. I had a > closer look at the tetras we purchased and silver sharks – they had > white spots on them also. I ended up losing all my clown loaches > (including the ones in the main tank because I had infected the tank > too) The main tank is fine now though. > > > > The two tertras that are left look healthy now, its been over a week > since the spots have gone. The plants are thriving, roots and stems > and leaves coming out everywhere. So was thinking of moving them over > to the main tank over the weekend (about 4 days time). Then we will > bring in the spare aquarium from the garage and set it up for the Koi > and Marble angel fish. > > > > So should we tank the juvies out of the tank (after 4 weeks) leaving > the parents by themselves? Would we be able to put the juvies in the > main tank with the other fish or would we be looking at getting > another fish tank? > > > > Jasmine > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>, "Raymond Wetzel" > <sevenspringss@> wrote: > > > > > > I figured as much on the dupes. No problem, that's all part of why > we first approve them before they're filed in Photos. I thought I > might change the caption on your male Angel to state just that > (instead of your believing it's a female. In this way, anyone looking > at that pic in the future won't be mislead. > > > > > > Yes, always best to have the pair in a tank of their own. Before > doing so, you need to decide if you're going to pull the eggs out and > raise them by themselves (which would require another tank) or whether > you want to try to have the pair raise them (which would require a > larger tank to accomodate all the fish). Please know that, if you > decide on having the parents raise them (if they will), you will still > need to move the juveniles to a large tank of their own, at about 4 > weeks of age, and well before selling size. Otherwise, a minimum tank > size for just the pair would be a 20 gallon high, although they'd be > more comfortable in a 29. > > > > > > To leave the juveniles with the parents after 4 weeks is to invite > the inevitable mutilation of the pair's fins and skin by the juvies as > they attempt to eat the slime secretion that the parents produce, in > addition to what you'd already be feeding them -- similar to how > Discus feed (this is called "contacting" in Cichlids) -- only, > Angelfish parents cannot produce nearly as much body mucous. Instead, > their fins get descimated, and if allowed to continue, their skin > doesn't fair much better. Ray > > > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 41348	From: bill 1433	Date: 6/24/2009
Subject: Re: Tap water Baseline testing

If your dabbling in adjusting or changing your water parameters at all, 48 hours among tests would be about right.  But considerations must be given to all filtration and water movement throughout the tank.  Obviously, the more or higher the movement, the easier it is to adjust and monitor.   Bill --- On Wed, 6/24/09, Amber Berglund <amber@...> wrote: From: Amber Berglund <amber@...> Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Tap water Baseline testing To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Date: Wednesday, June 24, 2009, 11:03 AM I had a feeling I knew what you were asking without saying it, LOL. I purchased the API master test kit first, then when I set up the walstad tank I got the GH and KH test kit so I could add coral to the tank and watch the GH and KH at the same time. I got API test kits just because I'm already familiar with them and figured it would be the easiest way to go ;) I'm curious to see what my pH is going to be tonight... Should I go over 48 hours on testing or is that plenty? Amber bill 1433 wrote: > > > > Hi Amber, > > You already knew what I was getting at! Wanted to see if the GH and KH > were in your Master Test Kit or an extra purchase. > > Bill > > --- On Tue, 6/23/09, Amber Berglund <amber@... > <mailto:amber%40rose-fields.com>> wrote: > > > From: Amber Berglund <amber@... > <mailto:amber%40rose-fields.com>> > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Tap water Baseline testing > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > Date: Tuesday, June 23, 2009, 11:06 PM > > API master test kit and extra API > > test kits for GH and KH, everything is > > API. > > > > Amber > > > > bill 1433 wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > Amber, > > > > > > If you don't mind?  The name or manufacture of > > the test kit your using > > > please? > > > > > > Bill > > > > > > --- On Tue, 6/23/09, Amber Berglund <amber@... > <mailto:amber%40rose-fields.com> > > > > > <mailto:amber%40rose-fields.com>> wrote: > > > > > > From: Amber Berglund <amber@... > <mailto:amber%40rose-fields.com> > > > > > <mailto:amber%40rose-fields.com>> > > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Tap water Baseline testing > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > Date: Tuesday, June 23, 2009, 9:58 PM > > > > > > Tapwater baseline testing 24 hours > > > > > > pH: 6.8 > > > > > > Ammonia: 0 > > > Nitrite: 0 > > > Nitrate: 0 > > > GH: 50 ppm > > > KH:1 drop, or close to 0 ppm again > > > > > > ------------------------------------ > > > > > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when > > replying, Thank You. > > > > > ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> > > ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> > > > PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that > > is NOT > > > important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of > > the original message > > > MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was > > re: old subject)" <- > > > > > <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. > > , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. > > > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. > > > > > > If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead > > of unsubscribing, > > > you can change your delivery option by clicking on > > "Edit My > > > Membership" on the home page. > > > > > > Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:aquaticlife-digest%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > <mailto:aquaticlife-digest%40yahoogroups.com> to > > receive the digest, > > > which includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single > > email > > > > > > Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:aquaticlife-nomail%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > <mailto:aquaticlife-nomail%40yahoogroups.com> > > for the No E-Mail option > > > where you will still be able to read messages on the > > group and post > > > replies. > > > > > > Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:aquaticlife-normal%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > <mailto:aquaticlife-normal%40yahoogroups.com> to > > receive individual > > > e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > > > > > > > ------------------------------------ > > > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when > > replying, Thank You. > > ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> > > ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> > > PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is > > NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of > > the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new > > subject (was re: old subject)" <- > > <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. > > , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. > > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. > > > > If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of > > unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by > > clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the home page. > > > > Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:aquaticlife-digest%40yahoogroups.com> > > to receive the digest, which includes up to 25 posts at a > > time in a single email > > > > Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:aquaticlife-nomail%40yahoogroups.com> > > for the No E-Mail option where you will still be able to > > read messages on the group and post replies. > > > > Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:aquaticlife-normal%40yahoogroups.com> > > to receive individual e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > >     mailto:AquaticLife-fullfeatured@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife-fullfeatured%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > > ------------------------------------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the home page.  Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com to receive the digest, which includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com for the No E-Mail option where you will still be able to read messages on the group and post replies. Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com to receive individual e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 41349	From: Raymond Wetzel	Date: 6/24/2009
Subject: Re: Sexing Angelfish, was: Pleco verse Bristlenose

No, I'm afraid not! Haven't yet heard of any way to neuter Angels, and their's no way to prevent them from spawning if they have intentions on doing so -- short of physically separating them into two different tanks. And before someone suggests to just lower the temperature below that of their breeding range (normally 78 o -- 80 o), it should be pointed out that this will not work. Once a pair is so determined to spawn, you would need to lower the temperature to below that of the sustainable living range of the species -- 68 o, and then you would be putting their health at great risk. A temperature drop to 72 o will not deter an intent pair from spawning once they decide on doing so -- and a well-conditioned pair still can so decide on spawning at that temperature, albeit not nearly as frequently. Ray --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Jasmine" <adonaikam@...> wrote: > > Is there a way we can neuter the angels to stop them from breeding LOL > > Our tank is 215L and our pair of angels are pecking at the UV filtration rod we placed in our tank recently. I'm suspecting, this will be where they will spawn. > > If your angels took over half of your tank (125gallons) what hope have the remaining fish we have going to survive LOL. > > We have an old TV unit to which we have been thinking of having a tank made to fit into that gap. But at this stage, its just talk. It would look nice though – I can post a photo of the unit if you like. > Jasmine > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, Amber Berglund <amber@> wrote: > > > > I can speak from experience that the Angel's do not live on any schedule > > humans keep, LOL. Mine usually spawn at least once a month, sometimes > > every couple of weeks if they're really in the mood. The babies never > > survive as once they hatch they are quickly devoured by the parents, but > > I think most of that reason is because they are in a mixed community > > tank and the babies all look like food to the other fish, so the > > parent's eat them first. > > I wouldn't worry too much if they spawn before you go to move them, but > > if they do be prepared for them to get even more aggressive to the other > > fish, they will probably keep all the fish at a distance while they are > > taking care of the eggs. Mine keep a whole half of the 125 gallon tank > > to themselves, greedy buggers ;) LOL. If they still have eggs when you > > have their tank ready for them you can either wait until they hatch or > > the Angel's eat them all (they don't always get it right from the first > > time, hehe). Mine ate their first few batches of eggs before they > > hatched, I only saw the last batch hatch and I think that was something > > like their 4th or 5th try. > > It's quite fun to watch them take care of the eggs though, I can't wait > > to see how well they do at raising their young when they're alone. > > Oh speaking of Angel's... the stand is built for their new tank, but > > unfortunately the hubby messed up a measurement and it needs slight > > adjustment before I can use it (go figure, hehe). It also needs to be > > painted, it's just bare steel for now, and it will rust if it doesn't > > get painted. > > > > Amber > > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 41350	From: anallafamily.2001	Date: 6/24/2009
Subject: Responses to Angels please help.

I got plenty of responsies with almost all the same questions. water testing... The water test that i have been doing is Nitrite, water is testing at 0ppm, ammonia might be high to day at 1.0, and ph is at 6.6. chemicals... when setting up the tank i used discuss buffer to lower ph and i used another chemical to get chlorine out. I have also put aquarium salt in tank 1 time (someone suggested it to boost amunity in new fish. Buying and acclamating..... Ok so i have been buying them at the local walmart because they are cheeper. But I put them in a 5 gal. bucket with there water and a large cup of my water and let them sit 10 min. then add another large cup of my water and let sit another 5min. then i dip net them in my tank not adding any of the water. Tank.... It is a 55 gal tank with 2 filters on each end and a whisper air pump. I had the tank set up for about 10 weeks but only tryed to add the fish in the last 2weeks. I don't know, but i think i have answered all questions. thanks Jo

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 41351	From: Raymond Wetzel	Date: 6/24/2009
Subject: Re: Responses to Angels please help.

Jo, The answers you've giving to all those who have posed these questions -- Nitrite 0.0ppm, Ammonia 1.0 PPM and pH 6.6 -- are adequate. NORMALLY, we all (myself included) need to know these water paramets in numbers, as you have just given, However, this is not the problem with the Angelfish you are buying at Walmart. The problem is entirely different from what most of the members here are suggesting or feel they may have a handle on. Your acclimating them is perfectly fine too -- and YOU cannot "boost the immunity" of new fish. Your acclimation process is excellent though, and there nothing further you can do for them. The problem lies in their latent infection (Virus) that they carry within them which I outlined to you early this morning in my lengthy and detailed reply. This infection overtakes them during the stress of shipping and ALL or most of Walmart's Angelfish will continue to be prone to dying within a week of your store displaying them. By this response from you however, it appears that you have not understood one word of what I have told you -- except for the word "immunity" when you used it in an entirely erroneous context. I would urge you to please re-read my post # 41325 that I sent you last night @ 1:34 AM in hopes you may be able to understand this problem better. It's entitled -- "Angels Please help???". To further try maintaining Walmart's Angelfish will continue to result in failure no matter how carefully you maintain them, or no matter how good your water parameters are. BTW, your 1.0 ppm Ammonia is rather harmless, considering it's all in the form of non-toxic Ammonium at pH 6.6. Lots of luck, and feel free to ask more if needed; I do hope you fully understand what I wrote you if your purpose is to keep Angelfish. Ray --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "anallafamily.2001" <anallafamily.2001@...> wrote: > > I got plenty of responsies with almost all the same questions. > water testing... > The water test that i have been doing is Nitrite, water is testing at 0ppm, ammonia might be high to day at 1.0, and ph is at 6.6. > chemicals... > when setting up the tank i used discuss buffer to lower ph and i used another chemical to get chlorine out. I have also put aquarium salt in tank 1 time (someone suggested it to boost amunity in new fish. > Buying and acclamating..... > Ok so i have been buying them at the local walmart because they are cheeper. But I put them in a 5 gal. bucket with there water and a large cup of my water and let them sit 10 min. then add another large cup of my water and let sit another 5min. then i dip net them in my tank not adding any of the water. > Tank.... > It is a 55 gal tank with 2 filters on each end and a whisper air pump. I had the tank set up for about 10 weeks but only tryed to add the fish in the last 2weeks. > I don't know, but i think i have answered all questions. > thanks Jo >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 41352	From: Gail	Date: 6/24/2009
Subject: Re: Brief question

I have a pictus in my community tank, the only fish I can notice that she doesn't get along with is my Chinese Algae Eater. Other than that, she's fine. I don't have any problems with my pictus. I also have some Emerald corys and they don't conflict with the pictus either. -gail --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, grdnfan243@... wrote: > > What would be good tank mates for a pictus catfish? Is a puffer ok oh heck > I dunno > Steff > **************Make your summer sizzle with fast and easy recipes for the > grill. (http://food.aol.com/grilling?ncid=emlcntusfood00000004) > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 41353	From: bill 1433	Date: 6/24/2009
Subject: Re: Responses to Angels please help.

Hi Jo, From Ray: "This infection overtakes them during the stress of shipping and ALL or most of Walmart's Angelfish will continue to be prone to dying within a week of your store displaying them". Unfortunately for me, I also buy Wal-Mart fish, I have not choice, they are the only game in town or in 25 miles. BUT Our store here does have a return policy for dead fish, its 72 hours, they give you your money back with the sales slip and return of the said dead fish. Here's how I handle them so as to keep some of my hair and cost down: Find out exactly when your store gets its shipment of fish, once you know that, you will know which day to shop there.  Ask about their dead fish return policy.  This may help defer your cost.    I have found, exactly as Ray has just told you, usually if something happens with their fish its usually right away and most certainly caused by the handling, shipping and stress they are under.  I now quarantine the fish (also makes them easier to get out of the tank) for a week before putting them into a regular community tank.   Bill --- On Wed, 6/24/09, Raymond Wetzel <sevenspringss@...> wrote: > From: Raymond Wetzel <sevenspringss@...> > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Responses to Angels please help. > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Date: Wednesday, June 24, 2009, 12:20 PM > Jo,  The answers you've giving > to all those who have posed these questions -- Nitrite > 0.0ppm, Ammonia 1.0 PPM and pH 6.6 -- are adequate.  > NORMALLY, we all (myself included) need to know these water > paramets in numbers, as you have just given,  However, > this is not the problem with the Angelfish you are buying at > Walmart. The problem is entirely different from what most of > the members here are suggesting or feel they may have a > handle on.  > > Your acclimating them is perfectly fine too -- and YOU > cannot "boost the immunity" of new fish.  Your > acclimation process is excellent though, and there nothing > further you can do for them.  > > The problem lies in their latent infection (Virus) that > they carry within them which I outlined to you early this > morning in my lengthy and detailed reply.  This > infection overtakes them during the stress of shipping and > ALL or most of Walmart's Angelfish will continue to be prone > to dying within a week of your store displaying them.  > By this response from you however, it appears that you have > not understood one word of what I have told you -- except > for the word "immunity" when you used it in an entirely > erroneous context.  > > I would urge you to please re-read my post # 41325 that I > sent you last night @ 1:34 AM in hopes you may be able to > understand this problem better.  It's entitled -- > "Angels Please help???".  To further try maintaining > Walmart's Angelfish will continue to result in failure no > matter how carefully you maintain them, or no matter how > good your water parameters are.  BTW, your 1.0 ppm > Ammonia is rather harmless, considering it's all in the form > of non-toxic Ammonium at pH 6.6.  Lots of luck, and > feel free to ask more if needed; I do hope you fully > understand what I wrote you if your purpose is to keep > Angelfish.  Ray > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, > "anallafamily.2001" <anallafamily.2001@...> wrote: > > > > I got plenty of responsies with almost all the same > questions. > > water testing... > > The water test that i have been doing is Nitrite, > water is testing at 0ppm, ammonia might be high to day at > 1.0, and ph is at 6.6. > > chemicals... > > when setting up the tank i used discuss buffer to > lower ph  and i used another chemical to get chlorine > out. I have also put aquarium salt in tank 1 time (someone > suggested it to boost amunity in new fish. > > Buying and acclamating..... > > Ok so i have been buying them at the local walmart > because they are cheeper. But I put them in a 5 gal. bucket > with there water and a large cup of my water and let them > sit 10 min. then add another large cup of my water and let > sit another 5min. then i dip net them in my tank not adding > any of the water. > > Tank.... > > It is a 55 gal tank with 2 filters on each end and a > whisper air pump. I had the tank set up for about 10 weeks > but only tryed to add the fish in the last 2weeks. > > I don't know, but i think i have answered all > questions. > > thanks Jo > > > > > > > ------------------------------------ > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when > replying, Thank You. > ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> > ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> > PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is > NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of > the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new > subject (was re: old subject)" <- > <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. > , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. > > If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of > unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by > clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the home page.  > > Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com > to receive the digest, which includes up to 25 posts at a > time in a single email > > Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com > for the No E-Mail option where you will still be able to > read messages on the group and post replies. > > Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com > to receive individual e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links > > >     mailto:AquaticLife-fullfeatured@yahoogroups.com > > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 41354	From: Gail	Date: 6/24/2009
Subject: Re: my nasty gourami

My experience with Gouramis, is that you are only suppose to have ONE per tank. How Big is your tank? I have two blue Gouramis and they get along when I had them in my 55 gallon, now that I have moved them to a 10 gallon - they aren't so friendly to eachother. No fin nipping in my case; just a lot of chasing. And are all of your Gouramis males? If so, that may be why you have this problem. thanks, gail --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "greychildren" <greychildren@...> wrote: > > Well like i told you guys several weeks ago i purchase 3 gold gourami's well the little nasty one nip all the fins from the other two gouramis a male and a female.. living one The nasty one left. i know there semi aggressive not aggressive... so should i take the gold gourami back to the FLS? He does not pic on the platys or head and tail tetras or should i get the kribs to calm him down? > > Jake >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 41355	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 6/24/2009
Subject: Re: Is my yabby building a nest?

Looks like she's decided to put in white marble flooring in her new cave. She could also be closing up the opening a little to make her cave more secure... maybe in preparation for molting? Did you see we have a new Aussie member in the group? Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Lisa Sent: Wednesday, June 24, 2009 3:53 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Is my yabby building a nest? I want to learn abloy the behaviours of yabbies, so i can understand mine better. Here is a video Of my new yabby. Is she building a nest? http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GWkZE0nkU7o&feature=channel_page

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 41356	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 6/24/2009
Subject: Re: Sexing Angelfish, was: Pleco verse Bristlenose

You should find a local fish store that wants to sell them and then you can start breeding them. The main color for Mystery Snails is "golden" but there are also black, purple is getting popular and I've heard that blue and green variants have been started. You might want to check with your local laws about putting them in your pond. Some areas have laws against that as they could be introduced into the ecosystem as a non-native species, although if you have really cold winters, they may not survive overwintering. They need to lay their egg clutches above the water line for the eggs to have any chance of hatching so if you fill your tank up as high as possible, that will dissuade them from laying eggs or the eggs will not become viable. Or, as you see them mating, you could separate the males and females into separate tanks/pond so that you only have ALL males or ALL females in your tank. That would put an end to the breeding also. There is a way to sex them but it's not easy. The easiest way is to catch them in the act. The Applesnail.net website has LOTS of info on sexing, breeding, etc. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Jasmine Sent: Wednesday, June 24, 2009 7:53 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Sexing Angelfish, was: Pleco verse Bristlenose Hi Lenny Not its the same snails. They are yellowish and grow to about 2". When we first purchased them, we were told they were hard to breed and not to worry. Then we found our first lot of eggs you described. Not really sure what they were, we left them - mmmm - we ended up with heaps and heaps and heaps of snails. I put some out in the outside pond with the gold fish. I place some in the quarentine tank - we still have one of the original parents. From that time on, we kept removing the eggs until the little blighters decided to go up the outlet pipe and lay eggs up there (a HUGE) sack of them. We kept an eye on that area and kept removing the eggs, then they found another spot that was hard for us to find. So now we keep an eye there too. They are sneaky buggers (ops, am I allowed to say that here!) We just managed to off load about 30 of them leaving us with about 8 fully grown ones. Today we saw a tini tiny baby one - about a couple of days old. There are more eggs somewhere. They must really love the tank. Jasmine --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@...> wrote: > > OK. But now I want to clarify what you are calling "Mystery snails". > Mystery snails are actually the common name given to a snail that > grows to around 2" and the smaller cousin to the Apple Snail > http://www.applesnail.net/ and is not a prolific breeder (in most > cases) and is actually purchased by folks as pets to go into their > community tanks as part of a clean-up crew and/or tank mate in smaller > tanks like 5G tanks, to go with a Betta or other single display fish. > They sell for a couple of dollars each in many pet/fish stores. They > are not generally known as nuisance snails. Their populations are > easy to control since they are egg layers and lay a large (teaspoon > size) clutch of eggs above the waterline so if one does not want more > Mystery Snails, you can simply scoop the egg clutch out. I just want > to be sure you are not calling one of the several species of nuisance > snails by the wrong name. Also, there are other ways to control > nuisance snails instead of getting clown loaches, including one of the > smaller dwarf species of loaches that eat snails and various ways of trapping nuisance snails. > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles > referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically > under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] > On Behalf Of Jasmine > Sent: Wednesday, June 24, 2009 1:51 AM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Sexing Angelfish, was: Pleco verse > Bristlenose > > We purchased the clown loaches to keep the snail population down. Who > know that Mystery snails breed so profusely LOL. The clown loaches did a > fantastic job too. Since getting the angels, i think i've found a new fish > that may keep the population of snails down. > > I have booked marked the links you have provided, thank you. > Jasmine > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" > <GoldLenny@> > wrote: > > > > Not that it is ever good to lose a fish to disease but the Clown > > Loaches were not a suitable fish for your tanks anyhow. They grow > > to well over a foot long and should be kept in groups of five or > > more with three being a minimal amount. Because of this, they would > > need a 6' long tank, at least, to give them proper swimming/growing room. > > > > For your 36" long tank, you want to keep fish that stay under 6" as > > full grown adults and if they are FAST swimming fish, then under 4.5" > > as full grown adults. See my blog article for a simple set of > > guidelines on stocking a tank so it does not get overstocked. > > > http://goldlenny.blogspot.com/2007/02/new-rules-guidelines-to-replace-1-per. > > html > > > > Start using http://fish.mongabay.com and use the Search Box to look > > up the common names or scientific names of proposed fish, that you > > might be thinking about, to see the profiles/care sheets on Mongabay > > which are very good. They also show tank size recommendations, > > water parameter preferences, breeding info, feeding info, etc., > > including an SC section which is for Suggested Companions to help > > you keep from making a compatibility match problem. > > > > You should also quarantine for much longer than a week. Most folks > > like to go 3-4 weeks at least. > > > > I'll let Ray answer the angelfish breeding questions. He's one of > > the experts out here on that topic! > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles > > referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, > > alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month)

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 41357	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 6/24/2009
Subject: Re: ANGELFISH, Once again

Ray, I saw a news blip on Fox News Channel a couple of days ago that reported that Kodak is retiring Kodachrome. In the news blip, they mentioned Paul Simon having written a song about Kodachrome and while I remember hearing this song on the radio many times as a kid, I don't think I ever realized it was a song about a roll of Kodak film. I guess I thought the song was about a home or something like that. Before the internet, I was infamous for making up words that fit when I couldn't tell what the artist was singing. Heck, with James Brown, you almost had to do that. LOL Momma don't take my Kodachrome awayyyyyyy! I've been humming that tune the past couple of days now. LOL http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ujhdf9_IO4w (song) http://www.lyricsfreak.com/p/paul+simon/kodachrome_20105962.html (lyrics) Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Raymond Wetzel Sent: Wednesday, June 24, 2009 8:03 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: ANGELFISH, Once again Yes, I think they turned out well; took a bit of work in developing them, but then I enjoy working in Angelfish genetics. The gene pool out there is so vast, that many strains can be developed by working with these fish either via the established and more obvious way (such using Black Lace to get Black), or the more unorthodox method of obtain the Black via selection of the pigment in Dark Marble on a solid Chocolate-patterned fish. As they say, there's more than one way to skin a cat (or is it, catfish? LOL). Sorry, I don't have photos of them. If I had, and it would be on slide film if I did (which I should see to photographing them), I would either have to buy a slide scanner, or transfer them to a digital disk. Either way, I wouldn't have the first notion of what to do next, as I'm not at all computer literate enough to know how to go about posting pics -- even if I had a digital camera. And, having 5 SLR film cameras and preferring slide film over digital, I'm not intended to change my preferences of format. Ray --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Jasmine" <adonaikam@...> wrote: > > WOW, your angelfish sound really nice. Do you have any photos of them? > > Jasmine > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Raymond Wetzel" <sevenspringss@> wrote: > > > > Nice looking Angelfish you have, in that dark one, even though I couldn't call it a Black Angelfish. I'd have to call it a Black Lace with obvious Dark Marble mixed in. Still attractive though. > > > > Yes, unfortunately most of the solid black Angelfish have disappeared from the hobby. Even the "better" ones today are not pitch black and certainly not the velvety-black of years ago. Today's "Black" Angelfish show the dark black barring of the original wild type. > > > > When Joe's question on this was asked a while back, I thought I had > > replied I was breeding them, but then maybe I had posted something > > on that on another Forum. No longer seeing this solid velvet black > > Angel on the market, I was concerned enough to want to do something > > about it. Over the past years, I've been selectively line breeding > > Chocolate Angelfish to create full coverage of the pattern on the > > fish. At the same time, I've also been selectively line breeding > > double-dose (dark) Marbles, effectively getting to the point of > > having near-complete solid black in them. Then, more recently, I've > > been crossing these two lines and selectively breeding the result, > > which has given me the black coverage I've been looking for. A > > completely different way of obtaining the results, but there can be > > no solid black barring of the wild genes showing through. Ray > > > > > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Jasmine" <adonaikam@> wrote: > > > > > > I thought I had a really nice black angel - slightly different dorsal fin to all the rest of my angels but, when I tried taking photos of it tonight, the camera showed me 'tourer shell' colours reflecting off the angel. > > > > > > I haven't seen any pitch black ones except in books. > > > > > > Good luck in finding one. > > > Jasmine > > > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "jett07002" <jett07002@> wrote: > > > > > > > > Ray, \\Steve//, Lenny and anyone else interested in Angelfish. > > > > > > > > I asked once a long time ago, and now I am asking again. Have any of you guys run across any real BLACK angels like we used to have back in the 80s early 90s? > > > > > > > > Since I have asked back then, and all (Ray, \\Steve//, and Lenny) have graciously answered in the negative, I am still searching for a comeback on the black angel as they were back then. > > > > > > > > I have run across some angels where the black color has "really been improved" according to the folks trying to sell them. Maybe my eyes are starting to fail me, but they do not look the same to me. > > > > > > > > joe t

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 41358	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 6/24/2009
Subject: Re: Sexing Angelfish, was: Pleco verse Bristlenose

Yes, Mystery snails look EXACTLY like an Apple Snail except smaller. There care, ecosystem, anatomy, etc., is virtually identical which is why I sent you to http://www.Applesnail.net I haven't found any really good web resources strictly about Mystery Snails so I use the resources at Applesnail.net for helping folks with their Mystery Snails as well. I'm not sure why it didn't work for you. Some of the Apple Snail species grow as large as a baseball and some can be voracious aquatic plant eaters which is why many areas ban releasing them into the wild. If yours are staying in the 1.5" to 2" size, then yours are not Apple Snails. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Jasmine Sent: Wednesday, June 24, 2009 8:03 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Sexing Angelfish, was: Pleco verse Bristlenose Mystery vs Apple snail I couldn't open your link Lenny but I did Google 'Apple snail' mmm - maybe I've been miss-naming them. I went out and took a photo (which I just added). There are two snails doing the tango - and they look like the Apple Snails. Jasmine --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Jasmine" <adonaikam@...> wrote: > > Hi Lenny > > Not its the same snails. They are yellowish and grow to about 2". > When we first purchased them, we were told they were hard to breed and not to worry. Then we found our first lot of eggs you described. Not really sure what they were, we left them - mmmm - we ended up with heaps and heaps and heaps of snails. > > I put some out in the outside pond with the gold fish. I place some in the quarentine tank - we still have one of the original parents. > > From that time on, we kept removing the eggs until the little blighters decided to go up the outlet pipe and lay eggs up there (a HUGE) sack of them. > > We kept an eye on that area and kept removing the eggs, then they > found another spot that was hard for us to find. So now we keep an > eye there too. They are sneaky buggers (ops, am I allowed to say that > here!) > > We just managed to off load about 30 of them leaving us with about 8 fully grown ones. Today we saw a tini tiny baby one - about a couple of days old. There are more eggs somewhere. > > They must really love the tank. > > Jasmine > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@> wrote: > > > > OK. But now I want to clarify what you are calling "Mystery snails". > > Mystery snails are actually the common name given to a snail that > > grows to around 2" and the smaller cousin to the Apple Snail > > http://www.applesnail.net/ and is not a prolific breeder (in most > > cases) and is actually purchased by folks as pets to go into their > > community tanks as part of a clean-up crew and/or tank mate in > > smaller tanks like 5G tanks, to go with a Betta or other single > > display fish. They sell for a couple of dollars each in many > > pet/fish stores. They are not generally known as nuisance snails. > > Their populations are easy to control since they are egg layers and > > lay a large (teaspoon size) clutch of eggs above the waterline so if > > one does not want more Mystery Snails, you can simply scoop the egg > > clutch out. I just want to be sure you are not calling one of the > > several species of nuisance snails by the wrong name. Also, there > > are other ways to control nuisance snails instead of getting clown > > loaches, including one of the smaller dwarf species of loaches that eat snails and various ways of trapping nuisance snails. > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles > > referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, > > alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Jasmine > > Sent: Wednesday, June 24, 2009 1:51 AM > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Sexing Angelfish, was: Pleco verse > > Bristlenose > > > > We purchased the clown loaches to keep the snail population down. > > Who know that Mystery snails breed so profusely LOL. The clown loaches did a > > fantastic job too. Since getting the angels, i think i've found a new fish > > that may keep the population of snails down. > > > > I have booked marked the links you have provided, thank you. > > Jasmine > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" > > <GoldLenny@> > > wrote: > > > > > > Not that it is ever good to lose a fish to disease but the Clown > > > Loaches were not a suitable fish for your tanks anyhow. They grow > > > to well over a foot long and should be kept in groups of five or > > > more with three being a minimal amount. Because of this, they > > > would need a 6' long tank, at least, to give them proper swimming/growing room. > > > > > > For your 36" long tank, you want to keep fish that stay under 6" > > > as full grown adults and if they are FAST swimming fish, then under 4.5" > > > as full grown adults. See my blog article for a simple set of > > > guidelines on stocking a tank so it does not get overstocked. > > > > > http://goldlenny.blogspot.com/2007/02/new-rules-guidelines-to-replace-1-per. > > > html > > > > > > Start using http://fish.mongabay.com and use the Search Box to > > > look up the common names or scientific names of proposed fish, > > > that you might be thinking about, to see the profiles/care sheets > > > on Mongabay which are very good. They also show tank size > > > recommendations, water parameter preferences, breeding info, > > > feeding info, etc., including an SC section which is for Suggested > > > Companions to help you keep from making a compatibility match problem. > > > > > > You should also quarantine for much longer than a week. Most > > > folks like to go 3-4 weeks at least. > > > > > > I'll let Ray answer the angelfish breeding questions. He's one of > > > the experts out here on that topic! > > > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles > > > referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, > > > alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, > > > Month)

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 41359	From: toddswoman496861@aim.com	Date: 6/24/2009
Subject: Re: 55 and 30 gallon tanks for sale question.

that is understandable. Kate Dale -----Original Message----- From: Beth Brownell <spencer_creek_studios@...> To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Tue, Jun 23, 2009 5:44 pm Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: 55 and 30 gallon tanks for sale question. We're downsizing the house very soon like by the end of summer and the two tanks will not be able to fit the new residence very easily and it has been over two years since I had fish within either tanks and it's just something that we need to sell. I enjoyed the Angelfishes that I had in both tanks but when the 2007 ice storm hit and killed all of them, I couldn't risk having more and emptied both tanks and cleaned them. Beth --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, toddswoman496861@... wrote: > why do you have to sell them? I do understand about the divorce? > > Kate Dale > -----Original Message----- > From: Beth F Brownell <spencer_creek_studios@...> > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Sent: Tue, Jun 23, 2009 10:52 am > Subject: [AquaticLife] 55 and 30 gallon tanks for sale question. > > What price should I list them for?I'm selling my tanks as our family was hit > with the sudden news of my dad's impeding divorce from my mom.Both tanks will > have everything that I had with it, including the filters, gravel and all > decorations.I'm thinking about $400.00 for them both and it would have to be > picked up at my home.Is that a good price for them both? > Thank you,Beth > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > ------------------------------------ > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. > ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> > PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the > reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> > i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- > <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matte > r. > > If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of unsubscribing, you can > change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the home > page. > > Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com to receive the digest, which > includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email > > Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com for the No E-Mail option where you > will still be able to read messages on the group and post replies. > > Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com to receive individual e-mails.Yahoo! > Groups Links > > > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > ------------------------------------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the home page. Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com to receive the digest, which includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com for the No E-Mail option where you will still be able to read messages on the group and post replies. Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com to receiv e individual e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 41360	From: biG poppa	Date: 6/24/2009
Subject: Re: my nasty gourami

i have a 55g gail i used to have 2 dwarf poder blue and they were fine in my 40g --- On Wed, 6/24/09, Gail <clandestine662002@...> wrote: From: Gail <clandestine662002@...> Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: my nasty gourami To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Date: Wednesday, June 24, 2009, 12:01 PM My experience with Gouramis, is that you are only suppose to have ONE per tank. How Big is your tank? I have two blue Gouramis and they get along when I had them in my 55 gallon, now that I have moved them to a 10 gallon - they aren't so friendly to eachother. No fin nipping in my case; just a lot of chasing. And are all of your Gouramis males? If so, that may be why you have this problem. thanks, gail --- In AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com, "greychildren" <greychildren@ ...> wrote: > > Well like i told you guys several weeks ago i purchase 3 gold gourami's well the little nasty one nip all the fins from the other two gouramis a male and a female.. living one The nasty one left. i know there semi aggressive not aggressive.. . so should i take the gold gourami back to the FLS? He does not pic on the platys or head and tail tetras or should i get the kribs to calm him down? > > Jake > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 41361	From: biG poppa	Date: 6/24/2009
Subject: Re: my nasty gourami

Thank you Lenny i started with 3 now i have 1 1/2 the 1/2 is very beet up i dont know if him her is going to make it..its 55g. I will try to rearange the tank sense im going on a long vacation soon going to have plenty of spare time.   Like always Lenny your a great help...and an outstanding source of information --- On Wed, 6/24/09, Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@...> wrote: From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@...> Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] my nasty gourami To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Date: Wednesday, June 24, 2009, 12:54 AM Remind us what size tank again? I kind of remember your post and I remember a few of us mentioning that Gouramis can be every where from peaceful to aggressive with the majority of them being on the aggressive end of the scale. They are BIG fish (6" long but 2.5" to 3" tall). My Tank Stocking Guideline Article suggests at least 18G per fish (for that size fish) with at least a 4' long tank for them, so you could only have three of them in a 55G tank. I'm guessing the other two injured Gouramis did not make it? It's up to you on whether you take him/her back or not. The downside of keeping him is that he may decide the tank belongs to him and any new fish you add may also be bullied. Sometimes, if you were to take him out, rearrange the tank, add the new fish and then reintroduce him, that would break his Master Of The Tank syndrome but this is not a guarantee. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com [mailto:AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com] On Behalf Of greychildren Sent: Tuesday, June 23, 2009 7:41 PM To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com Subject: [AquaticLife] my nasty gourami Well like i told you guys several weeks ago i purchase 3 gold gourami's well the little nasty one nip all the fins from the other two gouramis a male and a female.. living one The nasty one left. i know there semi aggressive not aggressive.. . so should i take the gold gourami back to the FLS? He does not pic on the platys or head and tail tetras or should i get the kribs to calm him down? Jake [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 41362	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 6/24/2009
Subject: Re: my nasty gourami

Big difference between Dwarf Gouramis and regular Gouramis. A 3" Dwarf Gourami is about 1/8th the body mass of a regular 6" Gourami. For comparative purposes, if you had two dwarfs in a 40G, for a comparative bioload, two full size gouramis would be in 320G of water. Not that they would need that much but the more space and water volume, the better, for BIG fish. Not withstanding the above, when I adopted/saved a severely overstocked 10G tank back in 2005 (before Katrina), there were two normal Blue Gouramis (severely stunted so they weren't much larger than dwarfs) in the 10G and they had lived in that 10G for two years. It was a male/female so that makes a difference and the male was VERY controlling of the female, even after I moved them to a larger tank. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of biG poppa Sent: Wednesday, June 24, 2009 1:21 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: my nasty gourami i have a 55g gail i used to have 2 dwarf poder blue and they were fine in my 40g --- On Wed, 6/24/09, Gail <clandestine662002@...> wrote: From: Gail <clandestine662002@...> Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: my nasty gourami To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Date: Wednesday, June 24, 2009, 12:01 PM My experience with Gouramis, is that you are only suppose to have ONE per tank. How Big is your tank? I have two blue Gouramis and they get along when I had them in my 55 gallon, now that I have moved them to a 10 gallon - they aren't so friendly to eachother. No fin nipping in my case; just a lot of chasing. And are all of your Gouramis males? If so, that may be why you have this problem. thanks, gail --- In AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com, "greychildren" <greychildren@ ...> wrote: > > Well like i told you guys several weeks ago i purchase 3 gold gourami's well the little nasty one nip all the fins from the other two gouramis a male and a female.. living one The nasty one left. i know there semi aggressive not aggressive.. . so should i take the gold gourami back to the FLS? He does not pic on the platys or head and tail tetras or should i get the kribs to calm him down? > > Jake

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 41363	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 6/24/2009
Subject: Re: Tap water Baseline testing

I didn't have a spare pump or anything to put into the bucket to move water, so should I wait another day on the tests to be safe or will that matter? I'm not dabbling in changing, it's just a bucket of water ;) LOL. I would like to figure out how much crushed coral I will need to add to the tank though, once the baseline tests are done. Amber bill 1433 wrote: > > > > If your dabbling in adjusting or changing your water parameters at > all, 48 hours among tests would be about right. But considerations > must be given to all filtration and water movement throughout the > tank. Obviously, the more or higher the movement, the easier it is to > adjust and monitor. > > Bill > > --- On Wed, 6/24/09, Amber Berglund <amber@... > <mailto:amber%40rose-fields.com>> wrote: > > From: Amber Berglund <amber@... > <mailto:amber%40rose-fields.com>> > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Tap water Baseline testing > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Date: Wednesday, June 24, 2009, 11:03 AM > > I had a feeling I knew what you were asking without saying it, LOL. > I purchased the API master test kit first, then when I set up the > walstad tank I got the GH and KH test kit so I could add coral to the > tank and watch the GH and KH at the same time. > I got API test kits just because I'm already familiar with them and > figured it would be the easiest way to go ;) > I'm curious to see what my pH is going to be tonight... Should I go over > 48 hours on testing or is that plenty? > > Amber > > bill 1433 wrote: > > > > > > > > Hi Amber, > > > > You already knew what I was getting at! Wanted to see if the GH and KH > > were in your Master Test Kit or an extra purchase. > > > > Bill > > > > --- On Tue, 6/23/09, Amber Berglund <amber@... > <mailto:amber%40rose-fields.com> > > <mailto:amber%40rose-fields.com>> wrote: > > > > > From: Amber Berglund <amber@... > <mailto:amber%40rose-fields.com> > > <mailto:amber%40rose-fields.com>> > > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Tap water Baseline testing > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > Date: Tuesday, June 23, 2009, 11:06 PM > > > API master test kit and extra API > > > test kits for GH and KH, everything is > > > API. > > > > > > Amber > > > > > > bill 1433 wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Amber, > > > > > > > > If you don't mind? The name or manufacture of > > > the test kit your using > > > > please? > > > > > > > > Bill > > > > > > > > --- On Tue, 6/23/09, Amber Berglund <amber@... > <mailto:amber%40rose-fields.com> > > <mailto:amber%40rose-fields.com> > > > > > > > <mailto:amber%40rose-fields.com>> wrote: > > > > > > > > From: Amber Berglund <amber@... > <mailto:amber%40rose-fields.com> > > <mailto:amber%40rose-fields.com> > > > > > > > <mailto:amber%40rose-fields.com>> > > > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Tap water Baseline testing > > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > Date: Tuesday, June 23, 2009, 9:58 PM > > > > > > > > Tapwater baseline testing 24 hours > > > > > > > > pH: 6.8 > > > > > > > > Ammonia: 0 > > > > Nitrite: 0 > > > > Nitrate: 0 > > > > GH: 50 ppm > > > > KH:1 drop, or close to 0 ppm again > > > > > > > > ------------------------------------ > > > > > > > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when > > > replying, Thank You. > > > > > > > ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> > > > ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> > > > > PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that > > > is NOT > > > > important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of > > > the original message > > > > MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was > > > re: old subject)" <- > > > > > > > <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. > > > , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. > > > > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. > > > > > > > > If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead > > > of unsubscribing, > > > > you can change your delivery option by clicking on > > > "Edit My > > > > Membership" on the home page. > > > > > > > > Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:aquaticlife-digest%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:aquaticlife-digest%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > <mailto:aquaticlife-digest%40yahoogroups.com> to > > > receive the digest, > > > > which includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single > > > email > > > > > > > > Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:aquaticlife-nomail%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:aquaticlife-nomail%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > <mailto:aquaticlife-nomail%40yahoogroups.com> > > > for the No E-Mail option > > > > where you will still be able to read messages on the > > > group and post > > > > replies. > > > > > > > > Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:aquaticlife-normal%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:aquaticlife-normal%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > <mailto:aquaticlife-normal%40yahoogroups.com> to > > > receive individual > > > > e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ------------------------------------ > > > > > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when > > > replying, Thank You. > > > ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> > > > ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> > > > PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is > > > NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of > > > the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new > > > subject (was re: old subject)" <- > > > <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. > > > , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. > > > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. > > > > > > If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of > > > unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by > > > clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the home page. > > > > > > Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:aquaticlife-digest%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:aquaticlife-digest%40yahoogroups.com> > > > to receive the digest, which includes up to 25 posts at a > > > time in a single email > > > > > > Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:aquaticlife-nomail%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:aquaticlife-nomail%40yahoogroups.com> > > > for the No E-Mail option where you will still be able to > > > read messages on the group and post replies. > > > > > > Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:aquaticlife-normal%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:aquaticlife-normal%40yahoogroups.com> > > > to receive individual e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > > > > mailto:AquaticLife-fullfeatured@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife-fullfeatured%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife-fullfeatured%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ------------------------------------ > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. > ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> > PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT > important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message > MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- > <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. > > If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of unsubscribing, > you can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My > Membership" on the home page. > > Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:aquaticlife-digest%40yahoogroups.com> to receive the digest, > which includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email > > Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:aquaticlife-nomail%40yahoogroups.com> for the No E-Mail option > where you will still be able to read messages on the group and post > replies. > > Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:aquaticlife-normal%40yahoogroups.com> to receive individual > e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 41364	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 6/24/2009
Subject: Flourish products

Does anyone out there use more than just flourish excel for their fish tanks? I got several of the products to see if they will make a difference in my 55 gallon for the potted plants that aren't doing so spiffy. I haven't tried any of them except the excel yet. I got: Flourish Flourish trace Flourish potassium Flourish excel Flourish iron Anything special that anyone wants to point out before I use any of these products? (besides the flourish excel which I'm already using in my 55 gallon community tank). Amber

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 41365	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 6/24/2009
Subject: Re: Tap water Baseline testing

When I wrote that article a while back, using my water as the "test" water, after 48 hours, things didn't really change any more that I could see on the test results. There may have been minute changes but nothing noticeable with API test kits. Of course, I don't remember if I had a GH or KH test kit back then since I was mainly interested in how much ammonia was freed up when the chloramine broke down and also how much the pH might have changed. I know I have hard water so I never really worried KH and GH test results. In your case, since you saw a change in the GH test results after 24 hours, it wouldn't hurt to go three days. Just keep them dang dirty pawed pets out the bucket. ;-) Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Amber Berglund Sent: Wednesday, June 24, 2009 5:21 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Tap water Baseline testing I didn't have a spare pump or anything to put into the bucket to move water, so should I wait another day on the tests to be safe or will that matter? I'm not dabbling in changing, it's just a bucket of water ;) LOL. I would like to figure out how much crushed coral I will need to add to the tank though, once the baseline tests are done. Amber bill 1433 wrote: > > > > If your dabbling in adjusting or changing your water parameters at > all, 48 hours among tests would be about right. But considerations > must be given to all filtration and water movement throughout the > tank. Obviously, the more or higher the movement, the easier it is to > adjust and monitor. > > Bill > > --- On Wed, 6/24/09, Amber Berglund <amber@... > <mailto:amber%40rose-fields.com>> wrote: > > From: Amber Berglund <amber@... > <mailto:amber%40rose-fields.com>> > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Tap water Baseline testing > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Date: Wednesday, June 24, 2009, 11:03 AM > > I had a feeling I knew what you were asking without saying it, LOL. > I purchased the API master test kit first, then when I set up the > walstad tank I got the GH and KH test kit so I could add coral to the > tank and watch the GH and KH at the same time. > I got API test kits just because I'm already familiar with them and > figured it would be the easiest way to go ;) I'm curious to see what > my pH is going to be tonight... Should I go over > 48 hours on testing or is that plenty? > > Amber > > bill 1433 wrote: > > > > > > > > Hi Amber, > > > > You already knew what I was getting at! Wanted to see if the GH and > > KH were in your Master Test Kit or an extra purchase. > > > > Bill > > > > --- On Tue, 6/23/09, Amber Berglund <amber@... > <mailto:amber%40rose-fields.com> > > <mailto:amber%40rose-fields.com>> wrote: > > > > > From: Amber Berglund <amber@... > <mailto:amber%40rose-fields.com> > > <mailto:amber%40rose-fields.com>> > > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Tap water Baseline testing > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > Date: Tuesday, June 23, 2009, 11:06 PM API master test kit and > > > extra API test kits for GH and KH, everything is API. > > > > > > Amber > > > > > > bill 1433 wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Amber, > > > > > > > > If you don't mind? The name or manufacture of > > > the test kit your using > > > > please? > > > > > > > > Bill > > > > > > > > --- On Tue, 6/23/09, Amber Berglund <amber@... > <mailto:amber%40rose-fields.com> > > <mailto:amber%40rose-fields.com> > > > > > > > <mailto:amber%40rose-fields.com>> wrote: > > > > > > > > From: Amber Berglund <amber@... > <mailto:amber%40rose-fields.com> > > <mailto:amber%40rose-fields.com> > > > > > > > <mailto:amber%40rose-fields.com>> > > > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Tap water Baseline testing > > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > Date: Tuesday, June 23, 2009, 9:58 PM > > > > > > > > Tapwater baseline testing 24 hours > > > > > > > > pH: 6.8 > > > > > > > > Ammonia: 0 > > > > Nitrite: 0 > > > > Nitrate: 0 > > > > GH: 50 ppm > > > > KH:1 drop, or close to 0 ppm again

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 41366	From: Joellen & Kevin Analla	Date: 6/24/2009
Subject: Re: Angels Please help???

So basically what your saying is that all fish in tank (2Angels) must die then i need to disinfect all equipment then start all over buying from a different source but theres no garanteen that even a differant source could still get infected in that case i would have to repeat process agian......Really isnt there a better way, or even a way of knowing that fish will be ok . --- On Wed, 6/24/09, Raymond Wetzel <sevenspringss@...> wrote: From: Raymond Wetzel <sevenspringss@...> Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Angels Please help??? To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Date: Wednesday, June 24, 2009, 1:33 AM Hello Jo, So sorry you are running into this frustrating experience in trying to keep Angelfish, when the species is not difficult to maintain. Ordinarily, we would ask just what you meant (and will still do this) when you say that your water is all testing okay. When giving us any of your data concerning your water parameters, we prefer to have number to be evaluate your circumstances, and the actual test results in ppm (parts per million) best reflect your actual conditions. If you could give us your test results for pH, ammonia, nitrite and even nitrate, it could be a great help. If you can provide results for temporary hardness (KH) and total/general hardness (GH), this may be of further assistance to us -- the more information, the better. BUT, in this particular case, I do not believe it's your water quality that's at fault, even though we need to rule that out. Most unfortunately, new prospective Angelfish hobbyists will run into this situation when buying from retailers who prefer obtaining their Angelfish stocks indiscriminantly, possibly in an effort to save money or perhaps just for the convenience. However, in buying in essence what can be established as inferior stock, I fail to see what they think they gain. Unfortunately too, the customer (you) is too often unsuspecting of this possibility and blame the deaths of these fish on themselves, when in truth it's the poor stock itself that these outlets continue to retail -- despite the many losses they themselves have with each re-stocking. These retailers know that they will not be alienating their customers, as these customers are completely unaware that this stock is inferior, and in their quest to maintain this beautiful species, they repeatedly buy new stock in hopes they can keep them alive. Some of the larger chain stores (and some smaller shops) operate in this manner, Walmart having been one of them until they gave up selling tropical fish; these stores continuing to buy their Angels only from preferred sources which may include a headquarter- -designated distributor, a Florida fish farm, a local wholesaler that buys from either Florida or the Far East, or a Far East breeding establishment- -exporter -- rather than a reputable domestic breeder. Now, getting to the root of this practice and its problem. Going back some 15 years or slightly more, there was a major outbreak of a horrific Angelfish Virus disease originating in the Far East, decimating Angelfish stocks there as well as in this country when it was introduced here through imports of that stock into this country. Many domestic Angelfish breeders in this country were wiped out or at least partially effected, not suspecting this problem, and mixed that stock with theirs. The problem didn't stop there in this country as a good number of the Florida fish farmers also introduced this diseased Asian stock of Angelfish to their hatcheries in efforts to strengthen their own stocks with "new blood," not yet knowing the consequences they would have to pay. Gradually, this disease was finally contained although never completely cured. Those Asian stocks that survived were strengthened by natural selection to be able to remain viable while still carrying th Virus as a latent disease always present but under control of these latest Angelfish's adapted immune systems. This same adaptation of the Angelfish's immune system to contain this Virus as of late, also emerged from those Florida fish farm's stocks which were similarly effected. As a result, most any Angelfish derived today from either those effected Florida fish farms or those Far Eastern hatchery/exporters carry this Virus as a weaker (as controlled now by these Angels' new but limited immunity), yet still viable disease still capable of overtaking the Angelfish as soon as receieves enough stress. This shared (but not mutually beneficial where the fish is concerned) existance is called "symbiosis," and is seen also in many Cichlids -- including Angelfish -- as Hexamita, where this protozoan resides in a latent condition in the fish's intestine, only to overtake the fish when the fish experiences sufficient stress for it to do so. So, now when these Angelfish (carrying this disease) reach your local fish store, they look fine at first and appear most healthy. However, the stress of shipping soon takes its toll over the next week as the disease now devastates these stressed and weakened fish. These fish are not expected to last much more than an average of 6 or 7 days as a result of what happens with them. Likewise, many (most?) of the same fish in these stores that stock them soon die also (they are KNOWN to fold up), but the storekeeper has still made his profit and has "satisfied" his customers, which causes them to keep coming back to those stores. If any of this rings a bell for you, you may finally be understanding what's happening with your Angelfish. A few, such as the two you have that survived so far will live for an undetermined period of time, but their days are still numbered (could live for another few weeks or so). If you still want to keep Angelfish, you cannot continue to buy them from this present source as they'll meet the same fate, nor can you add any other Angelfish to this tank from a different source as they'll become infected. I really hate to have to suggest this, and I don't know if you have any other species of fish presently in this tank, but before you add any more Angels -- and they MUST be from a reputable domestic breeder -- this tank and all its equipment must be disinfected after these two remaining Angels secumb. I hope this whole scenario of events as pertains to Angelfish has been at least enlightening for you, and will serve to assist you in the future (we'll still be here to help). I regret that since you most probably have introduced disease-carrying Angelfish unknowingly, that you'll have a long road ahead of you in maintaining your goal, but at least now you know what to expect. Please keep us posted, Ray --- In AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com, "anallafamily. 2001" <anallafamily. 2001@...> wrote: > > I'm new to the group so just let me know if I say or do something not right...... > My Question.... I wanted to start up an angel tank so I have a 55gal set up.. I keep buying 5 angels at a time and they keep dying slowly but surely.. I think altogether I have bought 16 Angels and I have managed to get 2 to live for at least 6 days now. I have plenty of filtration and water flow, I have ph at 6.5 and water is all testing ok... So what am I doing wrong? and should I go get more since I got 2 to live uhhhhhh What do I do I feel like I want to give up but I really thought they were such a beautiful fish. > Please Help Jo.. > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 41367	From: aaron102272	Date: 6/24/2009
Subject: Re: Flourish products

Hi Amber, What kind of lights do you have? I believe the right light is the most important factor and the other parameters will make a big difference too, pH GH KH TDS temp. etc., Do you have test kits especially for the Iron (Fe) you are supplementing? The kind of plants you can keep will be limited or determined by all the above factors. I bought a lot of plants several years ago before I knew better and many of them were not true aquatic plants. Now I have mostly Vals (they grow taller than the tank is long - over 4 feet), Swords and Java Ferns and moss as well as a few others I can't remember what they are called. The all seem to do better after I remove them from the pots they came in. I read this yesterday about turning up the Heater to raise the Plants metabolism, never heard of that before ~ http://www.aquaticplantcentral.com/forumapc/lighting/63272-more-light-more-co2.html I just order a bunch of SeaChem products as well. I had used them several years ago and had great results, but too long ago to remember any specifics like tips or tricks, so I am going to stick to the directions on the bottle. I too have a 55 gallon community tank with Live Plants, eventually I hope to upgrade it into a true Planted Tank. I also ordered the Marc Weiss product Natural Aquarium Vital, it seems like it might be similar to the Flourish Excel which I am using since I do not add Co2 to the Aquarium yet. I have mostly Tetras and use primarily R.O water and some filtered tap with my weekly 50% water changes. There is about 2 inches of Eco Complete substrate that has been in there at least 5 years. The lights are 2 - 65watt compact florescent around 6700degrees Kelvin on a timer 12 hours on and 12 off. I have a Fluval 305 canister filter. The tank has been going for about 7 years total so far. Besides the other products yo mentioned I also use the Seachem Equilibrium since I use R.O water, and ordered the Flourish Tabs and Prime for the first time since I've been mixing in tap water. I got the Seachem Plant Pack Enhancer NPK with Nitrogen, Phosphorus and Potassium all together in small 100 ml bottles. There are some articles on the SeaChem website that can help you understand the plants more http://www.seachem.com/Library/Articles/How_to_Make_Plants_Flourish.pdf http://www.seachem.com/Library/Articles/General_Chemistry_of_the_Planted_Aquarium.pdf http://www.seachem.com/Library/Articles /Carbon_in_the_Planted_Aquarium.pdf Hope that helps, keep us posted of the progress and maybe take some before and after (and during) pictures so we can see the difference. Aaron --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, Amber Berglund <amber@...> wrote: > > Does anyone out there use more than just flourish excel for their fish > tanks? > I got several of the products to see if they will make a difference in > my 55 gallon for the potted plants that aren't doing so spiffy. I > haven't tried any of them except the excel yet. > I got: > Flourish > Flourish trace > Flourish potassium > Flourish excel > Flourish iron > > Anything special that anyone wants to point out before I use any of > these products? (besides the flourish excel which I'm already using in > my 55 gallon community tank). > > Amber >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 41368	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 6/24/2009
Subject: Re: Responses to Angels please help.

Jo, A few rules. Rule 1. Any ammonia above 0.0 is too high. Rule 1. Any nitrite over 0.0 is too high. Rule 1. Never, ever, mess with your pH. Your tank has not been cycled. What you need to do is to either do a "fishless" cycle or use Dr. Tim's product to obtain a bacterial culture that is ready immediately to start work when you add the fish. Ammonia is toxic to fish. Nitrite will read 0.0 until the ammonia is being converted. Then the ammonia level will decrease and nitrite will rise, when both compounds read 0, then your tank is ready for fish. You used a chemical (discus buffer) to decrease the pH level in your tank. From what, you do not say. All water contains compounds which are referred to as buffers. They help the water to maintain a certain level of pH. Using something to decrease the pH negates, to a certain extent, these buffers, so you are artificially lowering the pH. There are two ways that this scenario can play out. First, when the chemical used is exhausted, the pH will rise. When this happens, you will then place more of the chemical into the water to lower the pH. The other effect is that the chemical is so effective, that it eventually negates all the buffering capacity of the water, which then leads to a pH crash, which is a rapid decrease in the pH of the water to a very low level. This second effect is the much more dangerous effect. The first path will lead to a relatively slow, easy rise in the pH, which most fish can handle, while the second is a rapid drop, which the fish cannot handle, and they will likely suffer from what is known a pH shock, and, at the worst, die. Then, you added salt to the tank. This can have the effect of raising the pH. So, there you are, adding a chemical to lower the pH and adding a chemical that has the tendency to raise the pH. How much effect the salt will play would depend on the amount you add. Generally, when used in therapeutic amounts, salt will barely affect your pH level. There, in the word therapeutic, lies the key. Salt should only be added when it is called for in treatment of a disease or parasites. It should not be used as a prophylactic. Contrary to popular belief, angel fish do not need acidic water to do well. They are found in water with a pH of about 7.0. The pH range in their range in the wild is 6.0-8.0. If your water is naturally in that range, the angels should do fine, provided you provide themselves with their other needs, some of which I mentioned the other night, and Ray has been mentioning in other angel threads here. Stop your use of the discus buffer. Use your salt on buttered corn on the cob or popcorn. Slow down your water flow. Give the fish some vertical décor to make them feel at home with roots, plants and/or rockwork. Give them a temperature of between 75°F and 86°F. \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of anallafamily.2001 Sent: Wednesday, June 24, 2009 11:27 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Responses to Angels please help. I got plenty of responsies with almost all the same questions. water testing... The water test that i have been doing is Nitrite, water is testing at 0ppm, ammonia might be high to day at 1.0, and ph is at 6.6. chemicals... when setting up the tank i used discuss buffer to lower ph and i used another chemical to get chlorine out. I have also put aquarium salt in tank 1 time (someone suggested it to boost amunity in new fish. Buying and acclamating..... Ok so i have been buying them at the local walmart because they are cheeper. But I put them in a 5 gal. bucket with there water and a large cup of my water and let them sit 10 min. then add another large cup of my water and let sit another 5min. then i dip net them in my tank not adding any of the water. Tank.... It is a 55 gal tank with 2 filters on each end and a whisper air pump. I had the tank set up for about 10 weeks but only tryed to add the fish in the last 2weeks. I don't know, but i think i have answered all questions. thanks Jo

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 41369	From: nicurns@bellsouth.net	Date: 6/24/2009
Subject: Re: Severum fungus?

From my experience with fish over many years, I too don't feel this is a fungal infection (from the pictures view that is). I feel this is originating from the lower gill area. I too would use Melafix in a hospital tank and monitor this fish for a while. Is the fish breathing faster than normal? How is he acting otherwise? James S. --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Raymond Wetzel" <sevenspringss@...> wrote: > > Lenny, Steve, In checking out the two pics, I too seem to see the same thing on this fish as you do -- a very possible protrusion from this viewpoint, rather than any Fungus as it first sounded, as decribed having a cottony growth. Might just BE a cyst, as you stated, although I didn't magnify it -- but that's my take on it. Can't say if it's operable; might be, depending on where it's originating from. The fish would need to be removed from the tank and inverted to observed whether the growth is starting from under the gill plate or just originating at the point immediately below the gill plate where you see it. If it is a growth (and many are removeable), you might want to ask your LFS owner if he could assist you. Always easier with two people. You may only need to puncture it if it's liquid-filled, and use a topical antibiotic to coat it, then use Melafix as an antibiotic for the water column you're putting him back in. Ray > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@> wrote: > > > > Both Ray and I stated you should start with the Furan Two immediately. If > > that doesn't do the trick and if it starts looking to be bacterial > > (Flexibacter Columnaris), then the added antibiotic, Kanamycin, might be > > needed but from looking at your pics, I do not see any of the tell-tale > > redness associated with Columnaris but it doesn't always present itself > > right away. > > > > I also am not sure it's definitely a fungus but will have to rely on you for > > that since pictures are never as good as looking at something first hand. > > The picture that is more from the side view kind of looks like it is fungal > > but the front view almost looks like it could be a growth coming out from > > under the operculum (gill cover) and protrudes out a LOT, almost like it's a > > cyst or something like that. It does not appear very fuzzy to me like a > > fungus would appear but once again, it could just be the pictures. I even > > blew up the pictures 400% (using the IE8 magnifier - bottom right of an IE > > window frame) and it looked even more like a cyst protruding out from under > > the gill cover but I could then see some fuzziness right above the "cyst" on > > the edge of the gill cover. Of course, blowing up the picture that large > > made the entire pic more grainy so I'm still not sure if the fuzziness was > > from the disease or the photo quality. One of the reasons it looks like a > > cyst is that you can see a bulbous shape, actually looks like two bulbous > > shapes, and the upper one is reflecting the lighting off of it from the > > flash. Also, the two bulbous shapes create a distinct circular shadow on > > the skin of the fish behind the bulbous shapes. If it was a fungus, there > > would not be a distinct and defined shadow like that. I then blew it up to > > 600% (using the Custom menu) and at 600%, I could start to see some > > pinkish/reddish coloration on the front lower lobe of what I am calling a > > cyst. > > > > This "cyst" that I am seeing does not preclude what you might be seeing as a > > fungus since the cyst could be causing or a result of another injury and > > that other injury could be infested with the fungus. Unfortunately, the > > bigger I blow up the image, the grainier it gets which makes seeing fuzz a > > lot harder. > > > > After seeing all of this, I would go with the Furan Two and the antibiotic > > treatment since you may have to aspirate this cyst if it continues to grow > > and since I do see some pinkish/reddish area, that lends itself to a > > bacterial infection which might warrant an antibiotic treatment. > > > > Hopefully Ray, \\Steve// or one of the many other folks familiar with > > disease issues will show up and give a better diagnosis. > > > > DISCLAIMER - I'm not a doctor but I did play doctor when I was a kid. Gee, > > I sure miss the neighbor girl who played nurse with me. ;-) Hey, that's the > > best I can do to try and lighten things up and on short notice. LOL > > > > No time for a song tonight. > > > > OK.. maybe a short start to the chorus... > > > > Doctor, Doctor, please don't be mum > > I got a bad case of a sick Severum! > > > > Someone else has to finish that one. ;-) > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > > (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right > > side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) > > > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On > > Behalf Of Steve Biondi > > Sent: Tuesday, June 23, 2009 11:52 PM > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Severum fungus? > > > > Yo,Lenny , Steve and group > > > > Would you take a peek at my photos in the album called Steve's Severums? Any > > ideas as to the best cure are greatly appreciated. Steve gave me a > > suggestion before I posted the pictures. > > > > Thanks, Steve > > > > _____ > > > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On > > Behalf Of Lenny V. aka GoldLenny > > Sent: Tuesday, June 23, 2009 3:55 PM > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Severum fungus? > > > > > > > > > > > > Steve, > > > > Did you try to email the pics? If so, they will not come through. This group > > does not allow attachments (as most groups shouldn't as it's too easy for > > viruses/malware to be spread that way). In order to show us your pics, you > > will need to upload them to your own online photo album (Flickr, Webshots, > > etc.) and give us the links or you can upload them to the Group's Photos > > section, into your own folder and then let us know so we can go look at > > them. > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> blogspot.com > > (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right > > side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com > > [mailto:AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com] > > On Behalf Of Steve Biondi > > Sent: Tuesday, June 23, 2009 1:59 PM > > To: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com > > Subject: [AquaticLife] Severum fungus? > > > > Hi All, > > > > Here are the pictures of my green Severum that appears to have some fungus > > near the gills. I am hoping that you gurus can recognize it and tell me what > > I should use to treat it. Thanks for all your help. > > > > Steve > > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 41370	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 6/24/2009
Subject: Re: Flourish products

For now I have 1000kelvin daylight bulbs (2x65 watts), and I have actinics that I run for simulating dawn/dusk. I was planning on swapping out the bulbs for 6500k daylight bulbs which I just got today. I don't have a test kit for iron or any of the other stuff I'm supplimenting with the flourish products. I do have a pH, GH, KH, (API master test kit) test kits though. I have Val's in my 125 gallon walstad tank and they LOVE it, they're slowly creeping across the tank, pretty to look at though, they already reach the surface of the water, LOL. Thanks for all the links I will look them over, and I will try to get some before/during/after photos. Amber aaron102272 wrote: > > > Hi Amber, > > What kind of lights do you have? I believe the right light is the most > important factor and the other parameters will make a big difference > too, pH GH KH TDS temp. etc., Do you have test kits especially for the > Iron (Fe) you are supplementing? The kind of plants you can keep will > be limited or determined by all the above factors. I bought a lot of > plants several years ago before I knew better and many of them were > not true aquatic plants. Now I have mostly Vals (they grow taller than > the tank is long - over 4 feet), Swords and Java Ferns and moss as > well as a few others I can't remember what they are called. The all > seem to do better after I remove them from the pots they came in. > > I read this yesterday about turning up the Heater to raise the Plants > metabolism, never heard of that before ~ > > http://www.aquaticplantcentral.com/forumapc/lighting/63272-more-light-more-co2.html > <http://www.aquaticplantcentral.com/forumapc/lighting/63272-more-light-more-co2.html> > > > I just order a bunch of SeaChem products as well. I had used them > several years ago and had great results, but too long ago to remember > any specifics like tips or tricks, so I am going to stick to the > directions on the bottle. I too have a 55 gallon community tank with > Live Plants, eventually I hope to upgrade it into a true Planted Tank. > I also ordered the Marc Weiss product Natural Aquarium Vital, it seems > like it might be similar to the Flourish Excel which I am using since > I do not add Co2 to the Aquarium yet. > I have mostly Tetras and use primarily R.O water and some filtered tap > with my weekly 50% water changes. There is about 2 inches of Eco > Complete substrate that has been in there at least 5 years. The lights > are 2 - 65watt compact florescent around 6700degrees Kelvin on a timer > 12 hours on and 12 off. I have a Fluval 305 canister filter. > The tank has been going for about 7 years total so far. > > Besides the other products yo mentioned I also use the Seachem > Equilibrium since I use R.O water, and ordered the Flourish Tabs and > Prime for the first time since I've been mixing in tap water. I got > the Seachem Plant Pack Enhancer NPK with Nitrogen, Phosphorus and > Potassium all together in small 100 ml bottles. > > There are some articles on the SeaChem website that can help you > understand the plants more > > http://www.seachem.com/Library/Articles/How_to_Make_Plants_Flourish.pdf > <http://www.seachem.com/Library/Articles/How_to_Make_Plants_Flourish.pdf> > > http://www.seachem.com/Library/Articles/General_Chemistry_of_the_Planted_Aquarium.pdf > <http://www.seachem.com/Library/Articles/General_Chemistry_of_the_Planted_Aquarium.pdf> > > http://www.seachem.com/Library/Articles > <http://www.seachem.com/Library/Articles> > /Carbon_in_the_Planted_Aquarium.pdf > > Hope that helps, keep us posted of the progress and maybe take some > before and after (and during) pictures so we can see the difference. > > Aaron > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>, Amber Berglund <amber@...> wrote: > > > > Does anyone out there use more than just flourish excel for their fish > > tanks? > > I got several of the products to see if they will make a difference in > > my 55 gallon for the potted plants that aren't doing so spiffy. I > > haven't tried any of them except the excel yet. > > I got: > > Flourish > > Flourish trace > > Flourish potassium > > Flourish excel > > Flourish iron > > > > Anything special that anyone wants to point out before I use any of > > these products? (besides the flourish excel which I'm already using in > > my 55 gallon community tank). > > > > Amber > > > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 41371	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 6/24/2009
Subject: Re: Angels Please help???

I noticed you said there's an ammonia reading on your test kit, is this tank fully cycled or is the ammonia from the dead fish? How long straight has this tank been running again? I don't think anyone asked if your tank was fully cycled, so I was just covering all the bases ;) LOL. Amber Joellen & Kevin Analla wrote: > > > So basically what your saying is that all fish in tank (2Angels) must > die then i need to disinfect all equipment then start all over buying > from a different source but theres no garanteen that even a differant > source could still get infected in that case i would have to repeat > process agian......Really isnt there a better way, or even a way of > knowing that fish will be ok . > > --- On Wed, 6/24/09, Raymond Wetzel <sevenspringss@... > <mailto:sevenspringss%40wmconnect.com>> wrote: > > From: Raymond Wetzel <sevenspringss@... > <mailto:sevenspringss%40wmconnect.com>> > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Angels Please help??? > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Date: Wednesday, June 24, 2009, 1:33 AM > > Hello Jo, So sorry you are running into this frustrating experience in > trying to keep Angelfish, when the species is not difficult to > maintain. Ordinarily, we would ask just what you meant (and will still > do this) when you say that your water is all testing okay. When giving > us any of your data concerning your water parameters, we prefer to > have number to be evaluate your circumstances, and the actual test > results in ppm (parts per million) best reflect your actual > conditions. If you could give us your test results for pH, ammonia, > nitrite and even nitrate, it could be a great help. If you can provide > results for temporary hardness (KH) and total/general hardness (GH), > this may be of further assistance to us -- the more information, the > better. BUT, in this particular case, I do not believe it's your water > quality that's at fault, even though we need to rule that out. > > Most unfortunately, new prospective Angelfish hobbyists will run into > this situation when buying from retailers who prefer obtaining their > Angelfish stocks indiscriminantly, possibly in an effort to save money > or perhaps just for the convenience. However, in buying in essence > what can be established as inferior stock, I fail to see what they > think they gain. Unfortunately too, the customer (you) is too often > unsuspecting of this possibility and blame the deaths of these fish on > themselves, when in truth it's the poor stock itself that these > outlets continue to retail -- despite the many losses they themselves > have with each re-stocking. > > These retailers know that they will not be alienating their customers, > as these customers are completely unaware that this stock is inferior, > and in their quest to maintain this beautiful species, they repeatedly > buy new stock in hopes they can keep them alive. Some of the larger > chain stores (and some smaller shops) operate in this manner, Walmart > having been one of them until they gave up selling tropical fish; > these stores continuing to buy their Angels only from preferred > sources which may include a headquarter- -designated distributor, a > Florida fish farm, a local wholesaler that buys from either Florida or > the Far East, or a Far East breeding establishment- -exporter -- > rather than a reputable domestic breeder. > > Now, getting to the root of this practice and its problem. Going back > some 15 years or slightly more, there was a major outbreak of a > horrific Angelfish Virus disease originating in the Far East, > decimating Angelfish stocks there as well as in this country when it > was introduced here through imports of that stock into this country. > Many domestic Angelfish breeders in this country were wiped out or at > least partially effected, not suspecting this problem, and mixed that > stock with theirs. The problem didn't stop there in this country as a > good number of the Florida fish farmers also introduced this diseased > Asian stock of Angelfish to their hatcheries in efforts to strengthen > their own stocks with "new blood," not yet knowing the consequences > they would have to pay. > > Gradually, this disease was finally contained although never > completely cured. Those Asian stocks that survived were strengthened > by natural selection to be able to remain viable while still carrying > th Virus as a latent disease always present but under control of these > latest Angelfish's adapted immune systems. This same adaptation of the > Angelfish's immune system to contain this Virus as of late, also > emerged from those Florida fish farm's stocks which were similarly > effected. > > As a result, most any Angelfish derived today from either those > effected Florida fish farms or those Far Eastern hatchery/exporters > carry this Virus as a weaker (as controlled now by these Angels' new > but limited immunity), yet still viable disease still capable of > overtaking the Angelfish as soon as receieves enough stress. This > shared (but not mutually beneficial where the fish is concerned) > existance is called "symbiosis," and is seen also in many Cichlids -- > including Angelfish -- as Hexamita, where this protozoan resides in a > latent condition in the fish's intestine, only to overtake the fish > when the fish experiences sufficient stress for it to do so. > > So, now when these Angelfish (carrying this disease) reach your local > fish store, they look fine at first and appear most healthy. However, > the stress of shipping soon takes its toll over the next week as the > disease now devastates these stressed and weakened fish. These fish > are not expected to last much more than an average of 6 or 7 days as a > result of what happens with them. Likewise, many (most?) of the same > fish in these stores that stock them soon die also (they are KNOWN to > fold up), but the storekeeper has still made his profit and has > "satisfied" his customers, which causes them to keep coming back to > those stores. > > If any of this rings a bell for you, you may finally be understanding > what's happening with your Angelfish. A few, such as the two you have > that survived so far will live for an undetermined period of time, but > their days are still numbered (could live for another few weeks or > so). If you still want to keep Angelfish, you cannot continue to buy > them from this present source as they'll meet the same fate, nor can > you add any other Angelfish to this tank from a different source as > they'll become infected. I really hate to have to suggest this, and I > don't know if you have any other species of fish presently in this > tank, but before you add any more Angels -- and they MUST be from a > reputable domestic breeder -- this tank and all its equipment must be > disinfected after these two remaining Angels secumb. I hope this whole > scenario of events as pertains to Angelfish has been at least > enlightening for you, and will serve to assist you in the future (we'll > still be here to help). I regret that since you most probably have > introduced disease-carrying Angelfish unknowingly, that you'll have a > long road ahead of you in maintaining your goal, but at least now you > know what to expect. Please keep us posted, Ray > > --- In AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com, "anallafamily. 2001" > <anallafamily. 2001@...> wrote: > > > > I'm new to the group so just let me know if I say or do something > not right...... > > My Question.... I wanted to start up an angel tank so I have a 55gal > set up.. I keep buying 5 angels at a time and they keep dying slowly > but surely.. I think altogether I have bought 16 Angels and I have > managed to get 2 to live for at least 6 days now. I have plenty of > filtration and water flow, I have ph at 6.5 and water is all testing > ok... So what am I doing wrong? and should I go get more since I got 2 > to live uhhhhhh What do I do I feel like I want to give up but I > really thought they were such a beautiful fish. > > Please Help Jo.. > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 41372	From: Raymond Wetzel	Date: 6/24/2009
Subject: Re: Angels Please help???

By your post, it appears that you've taken the time to read over my message on the topic, so you could finally understand it -- which I appreciate your doing, as it will only benefit yourself. Your two remaining Angelfish stand a better chance of dying a premature death, and that death may come even sooner than later. I have seen other hobbyists maintaining a few remnant Angels from such origins after the rest of the original stocks of them had perished, only to pass on within the following month (or two, at the latest). You may try to return these two Angels for store credit, if they'll allow it, but otherwise, you'd need to keep only these two until something happens to them. To add any Angelfish from other sources to these two Angelfish, would be to subject them to an infection that they have no immunity for, with the inevitable results of their dying from this, and quite fast. If you want more Angels, and if you want healthy Angels, there is no other choice than to put them in a clean, disinfected tank that you're sure does not contain any disease -- which requires that these two Angelfish no longer inhabit this tank, one way or another. IF there is a better way (and I know of no other way), I would be more than pleased to tell you. As for knowing that a fish will be okay, I can only tell you this -- that I, nor anyone else, cannot say with 100% certainty that your two remaining Angelfish are not okay -- it's impossible for me to be able to do that from where I am (not within reach of your fish) or without the benefit of a slide smear of this fish's waste to evaluate under the microscope. But ALL things you've related about these fish and their deceased siblings, including their source, the suddenness of their demise and the repetition of these same circumstances spells out for me with enough certainty with all I've experienced and learned of this very disease, that this is indeed the dreaded fatal pathogen that has plagued Angelfish ongoing from a quarter century ago. I could choose to see your Angelfish loses as just the chance results of poorer than required water conditions combined with your possible inexperience with them and the luck of the draw along with the inevitableness of young Angels dying en-mass for unexplained reasons not unrelated to your general lack of aquarium knowledge at this stage of the game -- as some here may be suggesting -- but to do so would be to go against everything I've learned about Angelfish in 62 years of working with them, and living through the horrid period of decimation of these fish through the spread of this Virus. I've seen many, many cases of this virus striking Angelfish and have known many Angelfish breeders who were effected by the devastation of it and the experiences they've gone through during the peak period when this Virus was at its worst. AND . . . I have seen in TODAY's WORLD, the EXACT same thing as you are describing happening to you, of Angelfish being sold by Walmart (and others) which are infected by this virus and which have been dropping otherwise unexplainedly like flies -- INCLUDING having one or two fish temporarily survive this onslault only to died within the following month. I DO NOT think this is all coincidental. My brother (who had yet to learn of this disease) experienced the VERY things with young Angelfish he recently bought from Walmart a couple of months ago, amost word for word. In his case, his lone surviving Angel lasted another 3 weeks after the first ones died -- and he knows about keeping fish properly. Many of my customers (fish store owners who purchase my Angelfish) have told me of the quality of Angelfish (and the Virus they still carry) they've bought in the recent past from both Florida and directly from the Far East that just fold up on them within a week's time, often resulting in complete losses -- the unaccounted for ones having already been sold prior to the end of the week. These sources and the Angelfish Virus they promote through selling infected fish are still notorious for spreading this disease with the help of unknowing dealers and hobbyists even today. Of course, you do not need to believe me, but then it would be folly to continue in the manner you're attempting to add Angelfish to your tank in hopes they'll survive. For all we know though, without having your two Angelfish analyzed, they may be the healthiest Angels on earth -- But I wouldn't want to bet the farm on it! I suggested to you what needs to be done to succeed. You may follow this advice, or you may ignore it -- that's your decision. When buying from a different source, a reputable breeder who has reliably supplied quality disease-free Angelfish for many years simply cannot afford to risk selling diseased Angelfish, and still have his business and reputation survive. IF contemplating buying from such a known and reputable dealer, you need to make sure whom you are dealing with. There are many reputable Angelfish breeders in existance, but with your not having the experience to know which are the better ones, you may not know yet who to buy from with confidence. I WILL tell you that you can't expect to pay Walmart prices and still get good fish. A lot of work goes into raising these Angelfish and as a result these breeders will (need) to charge more, but a good breeder will be fair -- he does not need to price-gouge. If you're still following up on this, and need further advise, there are a number of people here who can best assist you with recommending breeders of quality Angels. I can start by wholeheartedly recommending Steve Rybicki of Angels Plus as one whom I can vouch for selling disease-free Angelfish; Steve's been in the business for at least 25 years. Ray --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, Joellen & Kevin Analla <anallafamily.2001@...> wrote: > > So basically what your saying is that all fish in tank (2Angels) must die then i need to disinfect all equipment then start all over buying from a different source but theres no garanteen that even a differant source could still get infected in that case i would have to repeat process agian......Really isnt there a better way, or even a way of knowing that fish will be ok . > > --- On Wed, 6/24/09, Raymond Wetzel <sevenspringss@...> wrote: > > > From: Raymond Wetzel <sevenspringss@...> > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Angels Please help??? > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Date: Wednesday, June 24, 2009, 1:33 AM > > > > > > > > > Hello Jo, So sorry you are running into this frustrating experience in trying to keep Angelfish, when the species is not difficult to maintain. Ordinarily, we would ask just what you meant (and will still do this) when you say that your water is all testing okay. When giving us any of your data concerning your water parameters, we prefer to have number to be evaluate your circumstances, and the actual test results in ppm (parts per million) best reflect your actual conditions. If you could give us your test results for pH, ammonia, nitrite and even nitrate, it could be a great help. If you can provide results for temporary hardness (KH) and total/general hardness (GH), this may be of further assistance to us -- the more information, the better. BUT, in this particular case, I do not believe it's your water quality that's at fault, even though we need to rule that out. > > Most unfortunately, new prospective Angelfish hobbyists will run into this situation when buying from retailers who prefer obtaining their Angelfish stocks indiscriminantly, possibly in an effort to save money or perhaps just for the convenience. However, in buying in essence what can be established as inferior stock, I fail to see what they think they gain. Unfortunately too, the customer (you) is too often unsuspecting of this possibility and blame the deaths of these fish on themselves, when in truth it's the poor stock itself that these outlets continue to retail -- despite the many losses they themselves have with each re-stocking. > > These retailers know that they will not be alienating their customers, as these customers are completely unaware that this stock is inferior, and in their quest to maintain this beautiful species, they repeatedly buy new stock in hopes they can keep them alive. Some of the larger chain stores (and some smaller shops) operate in this manner, Walmart having been one of them until they gave up selling tropical fish; these stores continuing to buy their Angels only from preferred sources which may include a headquarter- -designated distributor, a Florida fish farm, a local wholesaler that buys from either Florida or the Far East, or a Far East breeding establishment- -exporter -- rather than a reputable domestic breeder. > > Now, getting to the root of this practice and its problem. Going back some 15 years or slightly more, there was a major outbreak of a horrific Angelfish Virus disease originating in the Far East, decimating Angelfish stocks there as well as in this country when it was introduced here through imports of that stock into this country. Many domestic Angelfish breeders in this country were wiped out or at least partially effected, not suspecting this problem, and mixed that stock with theirs. The problem didn't stop there in this country as a good number of the Florida fish farmers also introduced this diseased Asian stock of Angelfish to their hatcheries in efforts to strengthen their own stocks with "new blood," not yet knowing the consequences they would have to pay. > > Gradually, this disease was finally contained although never completely cured. Those Asian stocks that survived were strengthened by natural selection to be able to remain viable while still carrying th Virus as a latent disease always present but under control of these latest Angelfish's adapted immune systems. This same adaptation of the Angelfish's immune system to contain this Virus as of late, also emerged from those Florida fish farm's stocks which were similarly effected. > > As a result, most any Angelfish derived today from either those effected Florida fish farms or those Far Eastern hatchery/exporters carry this Virus as a weaker (as controlled now by these Angels' new but limited immunity), yet still viable disease still capable of overtaking the Angelfish as soon as receieves enough stress. This shared (but not mutually beneficial where the fish is concerned) existance is called "symbiosis," and is seen also in many Cichlids -- including Angelfish -- as Hexamita, where this protozoan resides in a latent condition in the fish's intestine, only to overtake the fish when the fish experiences sufficient stress for it to do so. > > So, now when these Angelfish (carrying this disease) reach your local fish store, they look fine at first and appear most healthy. However, the stress of shipping soon takes its toll over the next week as the disease now devastates these stressed and weakened fish. These fish are not expected to last much more than an average of 6 or 7 days as a result of what happens with them. Likewise, many (most?) of the same fish in these stores that stock them soon die also (they are KNOWN to fold up), but the storekeeper has still made his profit and has "satisfied" his customers, which causes them to keep coming back to those stores. > > If any of this rings a bell for you, you may finally be understanding what's happening with your Angelfish. A few, such as the two you have that survived so far will live for an undetermined period of time, but their days are still numbered (could live for another few weeks or so). If you still want to keep Angelfish, you cannot continue to buy them from this present source as they'll meet the same fate, nor can you add any other Angelfish to this tank from a different source as they'll become infected. I really hate to have to suggest this, and I don't know if you have any other species of fish presently in this tank, but before you add any more Angels -- and they MUST be from a reputable domestic breeder -- this tank and all its equipment must be disinfected after these two remaining Angels secumb. I hope this whole scenario of events as pertains to Angelfish has been at least enlightening for you, and will serve to assist you in the future (we'll > still be here to help). I regret that since you most probably have introduced disease-carrying Angelfish unknowingly, that you'll have a long road ahead of you in maintaining your goal, but at least now you know what to expect. Please keep us posted, Ray > > --- In AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com, "anallafamily. 2001" <anallafamily. 2001@> wrote: > > > > I'm new to the group so just let me know if I say or do something not right...... > > My Question.... I wanted to start up an angel tank so I have a 55gal set up.. I keep buying 5 angels at a time and they keep dying slowly but surely.. I think altogether I have bought 16 Angels and I have managed to get 2 to live for at least 6 days now. I have plenty of filtration and water flow, I have ph at 6.5 and water is all testing ok... So what am I doing wrong? and should I go get more since I got 2 to live uhhhhhh What do I do I feel like I want to give up but I really thought they were such a beautiful fish. > > Please Help Jo.. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 41373	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 6/24/2009
Subject: Re: Tap water Baseline testing

Okay tonights tests 48 hours pH: 6.8 still Ammonia: 0 Nitrite: 0 Nitrate: 0 GH: 2 drops, the chart says 0-3 is 0-50 ppm, so my guess 33 ppm? KH: again 1 drop, so under 18 ppm as Lenny pointed out ;) I got the phosphate test kit tonight, going to run that test too, and I have the calcium test kit as well, might as well run one of those ;) LOL Calcium: 20 ppm, that seems very low... which I figured. Weird test kit for the phosphate, it's by Red Sea... I prefer API but it had high reviews. Results came back somewhere between 0 and .1... so I have very little phosphate in my tap water, at least after 48 hours ;) LOL Going to test the 55 gallon next to see what it's sitting at. Phosphate for the 55 gallon community tank that's been having algae issues is: inbetween .5 and 1ppm. Is that bad? Amber Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > > > When I wrote that article a while back, using my water as the "test" > water, > after 48 hours, things didn't really change any more that I could see > on the > test results. There may have been minute changes but nothing noticeable > with API test kits. Of course, I don't remember if I had a GH or KH test > kit back then since I was mainly interested in how much ammonia was > freed up > when the chloramine broke down and also how much the pH might have > changed. > I know I have hard water so I never really worried KH and GH test results. > > In your case, since you saw a change in the GH test results after 24 > hours, > it wouldn't hurt to go three days. Just keep them dang dirty pawed > pets out > the bucket. ;-) > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right > side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) > > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On > Behalf Of Amber Berglund > Sent: Wednesday, June 24, 2009 5:21 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Tap water Baseline testing > > I didn't have a spare pump or anything to put into the bucket to move > water, > so should I wait another day on the tests to be safe or will that matter? > I'm not dabbling in changing, it's just a bucket of water ;) LOL. I would > like to figure out how much crushed coral I will need to add to the tank > though, once the baseline tests are done. > > Amber > > bill 1433 wrote: > > > > > > > > If your dabbling in adjusting or changing your water parameters at > > all, 48 hours among tests would be about right. But considerations > > must be given to all filtration and water movement throughout the > > tank. Obviously, the more or higher the movement, the easier it is to > > adjust and monitor. > > > > Bill > > > > --- On Wed, 6/24/09, Amber Berglund <amber@... > <mailto:amber%40rose-fields.com> > > <mailto:amber%40rose-fields.com>> wrote: > > > > From: Amber Berglund <amber@... > <mailto:amber%40rose-fields.com> > > <mailto:amber%40rose-fields.com>> > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Tap water Baseline testing > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > Date: Wednesday, June 24, 2009, 11:03 AM > > > > I had a feeling I knew what you were asking without saying it, LOL. > > I purchased the API master test kit first, then when I set up the > > walstad tank I got the GH and KH test kit so I could add coral to the > > tank and watch the GH and KH at the same time. > > I got API test kits just because I'm already familiar with them and > > figured it would be the easiest way to go ;) I'm curious to see what > > my pH is going to be tonight... Should I go over > > 48 hours on testing or is that plenty? > > > > Amber > > > > bill 1433 wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > Hi Amber, > > > > > > You already knew what I was getting at! Wanted to see if the GH and > > > KH were in your Master Test Kit or an extra purchase. > > > > > > Bill > > > > > > --- On Tue, 6/23/09, Amber Berglund <amber@... > <mailto:amber%40rose-fields.com> > > <mailto:amber%40rose-fields.com> > > > <mailto:amber%40rose-fields.com>> wrote: > > > > > > > From: Amber Berglund <amber@... > <mailto:amber%40rose-fields.com> > > <mailto:amber%40rose-fields.com> > > > <mailto:amber%40rose-fields.com>> > > > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Tap water Baseline testing > > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > Date: Tuesday, June 23, 2009, 11:06 PM API master test kit and > > > > extra API test kits for GH and KH, everything is API. > > > > > > > > Amber > > > > > > > > bill 1433 wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Amber, > > > > > > > > > > If you don't mind? The name or manufacture of > > > > the test kit your using > > > > > please? > > > > > > > > > > Bill > > > > > > > > > > --- On Tue, 6/23/09, Amber Berglund <amber@... > <mailto:amber%40rose-fields.com> > > <mailto:amber%40rose-fields.com> > > > <mailto:amber%40rose-fields.com> > > > > > > > > > <mailto:amber%40rose-fields.com>> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > From: Amber Berglund <amber@... > <mailto:amber%40rose-fields.com> > > <mailto:amber%40rose-fields.com> > > > <mailto:amber%40rose-fields.com> > > > > > > > > > <mailto:amber%40rose-fields.com>> > > > > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Tap water Baseline testing > > > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > Date: Tuesday, June 23, 2009, 9:58 PM > > > > > > > > > > Tapwater baseline testing 24 hours > > > > > > > > > > pH: 6.8 > > > > > > > > > > Ammonia: 0 > > > > > Nitrite: 0 > > > > > Nitrate: 0 > > > > > GH: 50 ppm > > > > > KH:1 drop, or close to 0 ppm again > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 41374	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 6/24/2009
Subject: Re: Angels Please help???

Ray are you sure that his fish are deing to this infection rather than dieing from ammonia poisoning from an uncycled tank? Not to mention he used a pH adjusting buffer to lower his pH... This might just be a lack of experience too I would think it's possible at least. We should at least rule those out before rushing into thinking it's a serious problem right from the bat (the Angelfish infection). Amber Raymond Wetzel wrote: > > > By your post, it appears that you've taken the time to read over my > message on the topic, so you could finally understand it -- which I > appreciate your doing, as it will only benefit yourself. Your two > remaining Angelfish stand a better chance of dying a premature death, > and that death may come even sooner than later. I have seen other > hobbyists maintaining a few remnant Angels from such origins after the > rest of the original stocks of them had perished, only to pass on > within the following month (or two, at the latest). You may try to > return these two Angels for store credit, if they'll allow it, but > otherwise, you'd need to keep only these two until something happens > to them. > > To add any Angelfish from other sources to these two Angelfish, would > be to subject them to an infection that they have no immunity for, > with the inevitable results of their dying from this, and quite fast. > If you want more Angels, and if you want healthy Angels, there is no > other choice than to put them in a clean, disinfected tank that you're > sure does not contain any disease -- which requires that these two > Angelfish no longer inhabit this tank, one way or another. > > IF there is a better way (and I know of no other way), I would be more > than pleased to tell you. As for knowing that a fish will be okay, I > can only tell you this -- that I, nor anyone else, cannot say with > 100% certainty that your two remaining Angelfish are not okay -- it's > impossible for me to be able to do that from where I am (not within > reach of your fish) or without the benefit of a slide smear of this > fish's waste to evaluate under the microscope. But ALL things you've > related about these fish and their deceased siblings, including their > source, the suddenness of their demise and the repetition of these > same circumstances spells out for me with enough certainty with all > I've experienced and learned of this very disease, that this is indeed > the dreaded fatal pathogen that has plagued Angelfish ongoing from a > quarter century ago. > > I could choose to see your Angelfish loses as just the chance results > of poorer than required water conditions combined with your possible > inexperience with them and the luck of the draw along with the > inevitableness of young Angels dying en-mass for unexplained reasons > not unrelated to your general lack of aquarium knowledge at this stage > of the game -- as some here may be suggesting -- but to do so would be > to go against everything I've learned about Angelfish in 62 years of > working with them, and living through the horrid period of decimation > of these fish through the spread of this Virus. > > I've seen many, many cases of this virus striking Angelfish and have > known many Angelfish breeders who were effected by the devastation of > it and the experiences they've gone through during the peak period > when this Virus was at its worst. > > AND . . . > > I have seen in TODAY's WORLD, the EXACT same thing as you are > describing happening to you, of Angelfish being sold by Walmart (and > others) which are infected by this virus and which have been dropping > otherwise unexplainedly like flies -- INCLUDING having one or two fish > temporarily survive this onslault only to died within the following > month. I DO NOT think this is all coincidental. My brother (who had > yet to learn of this disease) experienced the VERY things with young > Angelfish he recently bought from Walmart a couple of months ago, > amost word for word. In his case, his lone surviving Angel lasted > another 3 weeks after the first ones died -- and he knows about > keeping fish properly. Many of my customers (fish store owners who > purchase my Angelfish) have told me of the quality of Angelfish (and > the Virus they still carry) they've bought in the recent past from > both Florida and directly from the Far East that just fold up on them > within a week's time, often resulting in complete losses -- the > unaccounted for ones having already been sold prior to the end of the > week. These sources and the Angelfish Virus they promote through > selling infected fish are still notorious for spreading this disease > with the help of unknowing dealers and hobbyists even today. > > Of course, you do not need to believe me, but then it would be folly > to continue in the manner you're attempting to add Angelfish to your > tank in hopes they'll survive. For all we know though, without having > your two Angelfish analyzed, they may be the healthiest Angels on > earth -- But I wouldn't want to bet the farm on it! > > I suggested to you what needs to be done to succeed. You may follow > this advice, or you may ignore it -- that's your decision. When buying > from a different source, a reputable breeder who has reliably supplied > quality disease-free Angelfish for many years simply cannot afford to > risk selling diseased Angelfish, and still have his business and > reputation survive. IF contemplating buying from such a known and > reputable dealer, you need to make sure whom you are dealing with. > There are many reputable Angelfish breeders in existance, but with > your not having the experience to know which are the better ones, you > may not know yet who to buy from with confidence. I WILL tell you that > you can't expect to pay Walmart prices and still get good fish. A lot > of work goes into raising these Angelfish and as a result these > breeders will (need) to charge more, but a good breeder will be fair > -- he does not need to price-gouge. If you're still following up on > this, and need further advise, there are a number of people here who > can best assist you with recommending breeders of quality Angels. I > can start by wholeheartedly recommending Steve Rybicki of Angels Plus > as one whom I can vouch for selling disease-free Angelfish; Steve's > been in the business for at least 25 years. Ray > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>, Joellen & Kevin Analla > <anallafamily.2001@...> wrote: > > > > So basically what your saying is that all fish in tank (2Angels) > must die then i need to disinfect all equipment then start all over > buying from a different source but theres no garanteen that even a > differant source could still get infected in that case i would have to > repeat process agian......Really isnt there a better way, or even a > way of knowing that fish will be ok . > > > > --- On Wed, 6/24/09, Raymond Wetzel <sevenspringss@...> wrote: > > > > > > From: Raymond Wetzel <sevenspringss@...> > > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Angels Please help??? > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > Date: Wednesday, June 24, 2009, 1:33 AM > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Hello Jo, So sorry you are running into this frustrating experience > in trying to keep Angelfish, when the species is not difficult to > maintain. Ordinarily, we would ask just what you meant (and will still > do this) when you say that your water is all testing okay. When giving > us any of your data concerning your water parameters, we prefer to > have number to be evaluate your circumstances, and the actual test > results in ppm (parts per million) best reflect your actual > conditions. If you could give us your test results for pH, ammonia, > nitrite and even nitrate, it could be a great help. If you can provide > results for temporary hardness (KH) and total/general hardness (GH), > this may be of further assistance to us -- the more information, the > better. BUT, in this particular case, I do not believe it's your water > quality that's at fault, even though we need to rule that out. > > > > Most unfortunately, new prospective Angelfish hobbyists will run > into this situation when buying from retailers who prefer obtaining > their Angelfish stocks indiscriminantly, possibly in an effort to save > money or perhaps just for the convenience. However, in buying in > essence what can be established as inferior stock, I fail to see what > they think they gain. Unfortunately too, the customer (you) is too > often unsuspecting of this possibility and blame the deaths of these > fish on themselves, when in truth it's the poor stock itself that > these outlets continue to retail -- despite the many losses they > themselves have with each re-stocking. > > > > These retailers know that they will not be alienating their > customers, as these customers are completely unaware that this stock > is inferior, and in their quest to maintain this beautiful species, > they repeatedly buy new stock in hopes they can keep them alive. Some > of the larger chain stores (and some smaller shops) operate in this > manner, Walmart having been one of them until they gave up selling > tropical fish; these stores continuing to buy their Angels only from > preferred sources which may include a headquarter- -designated > distributor, a Florida fish farm, a local wholesaler that buys from > either Florida or the Far East, or a Far East breeding establishment- > -exporter -- rather than a reputable domestic breeder. > > > > Now, getting to the root of this practice and its problem. Going > back some 15 years or slightly more, there was a major outbreak of a > horrific Angelfish Virus disease originating in the Far East, > decimating Angelfish stocks there as well as in this country when it > was introduced here through imports of that stock into this country. > Many domestic Angelfish breeders in this country were wiped out or at > least partially effected, not suspecting this problem, and mixed that > stock with theirs. The problem didn't stop there in this country as a > good number of the Florida fish farmers also introduced this diseased > Asian stock of Angelfish to their hatcheries in efforts to strengthen > their own stocks with "new blood," not yet knowing the consequences > they would have to pay. > > > > Gradually, this disease was finally contained although never > completely cured. Those Asian stocks that survived were strengthened > by natural selection to be able to remain viable while still carrying > th Virus as a latent disease always present but under control of these > latest Angelfish's adapted immune systems. This same adaptation of the > Angelfish's immune system to contain this Virus as of late, also > emerged from those Florida fish farm's stocks which were similarly > effected. > > > > As a result, most any Angelfish derived today from either those > effected Florida fish farms or those Far Eastern hatchery/exporters > carry this Virus as a weaker (as controlled now by these Angels' new > but limited immunity), yet still viable disease still capable of > overtaking the Angelfish as soon as receieves enough stress. This > shared (but not mutually beneficial where the fish is concerned) > existance is called "symbiosis," and is seen also in many Cichlids -- > including Angelfish -- as Hexamita, where this protozoan resides in a > latent condition in the fish's intestine, only to overtake the fish > when the fish experiences sufficient stress for it to do so. > > > > So, now when these Angelfish (carrying this disease) reach your > local fish store, they look fine at first and appear most healthy. > However, the stress of shipping soon takes its toll over the next week > as the disease now devastates these stressed and weakened fish. These > fish are not expected to last much more than an average of 6 or 7 days > as a result of what happens with them. Likewise, many (most?) of the > same fish in these stores that stock them soon die also (they are > KNOWN to fold up), but the storekeeper has still made his profit and > has "satisfied" his customers, which causes them to keep coming back > to those stores. > > > > If any of this rings a bell for you, you may finally be > understanding what's happening with your Angelfish. A few, such as the > two you have that survived so far will live for an undetermined period > of time, but their days are still numbered (could live for another few > weeks or so). If you still want to keep Angelfish, you cannot continue > to buy them from this present source as they'll meet the same fate, > nor can you add any other Angelfish to this tank from a different > source as they'll become infected. I really hate to have to suggest > this, and I don't know if you have any other species of fish presently > in this tank, but before you add any more Angels -- and they MUST be > from a reputable domestic breeder -- this tank and all its equipment > must be disinfected after these two remaining Angels secumb. I hope > this whole scenario of events as pertains to Angelfish has been at > least enlightening for you, and will serve to assist you in the future > (we'll > > still be here to help). I regret that since you most probably have > introduced disease-carrying Angelfish unknowingly, that you'll have a > long road ahead of you in maintaining your goal, but at least now you > know what to expect. Please keep us posted, Ray > > > > --- In AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com, "anallafamily. 2001" > <anallafamily. 2001@> wrote: > > > > > > I'm new to the group so just let me know if I say or do something > not right...... > > > My Question.... I wanted to start up an angel tank so I have a > 55gal set up.. I keep buying 5 angels at a time and they keep dying > slowly but surely.. I think altogether I have bought 16 Angels and I > have managed to get 2 to live for at least 6 days now. I have plenty > of filtration and water flow, I have ph at 6.5 and water is all > testing ok... So what am I doing wrong? and should I go get more since > I got 2 to live uhhhhhh What do I do I feel like I want to give up but > I really thought they were such a beautiful fish. > > > Please Help Jo.. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 41375	From: goldlenny_blogspot	Date: 6/25/2009
Subject: Re: Is my yabby building a nest?

I'm not sure it's stressing her out but I'm sure she's calling you a few selected four letter words. LOL How would you like it if you just got done decorating your home to get it just like you like it and someone came along and messed it all up? LOL Quite often with shrimp and crawfish, after being moved into a new tank, they will molt. Her behavior of trying to build a safe haven to hide is possibly because she knows she will be molting soon. They are vulnerable to predators for a few days or longer after molting, while their new shells are still soft, so they hide during this phase. She may not know that there are no predators in your tank that will try to eat her. Even if she did, it's still their instinct to hide during this vulnerable stage. Lenny Vasbinder http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com -----Original Message----- From: Lisa Lawless Sent: Wednesday, June 24, 2009 6:12 PM To: GoldLenny@... Subject: Re, Re Is my yabby building a nest? No i didn't Lenny, but thanks. I do a weekly pwc change, where all the 'plastic' plants are taken out of the water so i can do a gravel vac. Including the plastic hollow log featured here. Could my doing this be stressing her un necessarily? Cause before i did my pwc last night, i noticed the substrate that she'd pulled into the log. About half an hour after id done the pwc, i observed her pulling the stones back in again, which is the video you saw. And this morning i noticed she's actually dug a trench UNDER the log as well, which she was hiding in. Lisa --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@...> wrote: > > Looks like she's decided to put in white marble flooring in her new cave. > She could also be closing up the opening a little to make her cave more > secure... maybe in preparation for molting? > > Did you see we have a new Aussie member in the group? > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right > side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On > Behalf Of Lisa > Sent: Wednesday, June 24, 2009 3:53 AM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Subject: [AquaticLife] Is my yabby building a nest? > > I want to learn abloy the behaviours of yabbies, so i can understand mine > better. > Here is a video Of my new yabby. > > Is she building a nest? > > http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GWkZE0nkU7o&feature=channel_page >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 41376	From: Jasmine	Date: 6/25/2009
Subject: Re: Angels

Hi Ray I'm glad you are on the mend. I think mine has had a slight twist today – I started sneezing. All week with I've only had a slight temp, coughing and headaches. Thankfully, it hasn't travelled to my chest. However, starting today – I've been sneezing with nasal congestion and my head is starting to feel heavy. Not a good sign. Thank goodness I still have some paid sick leave up my sleeve. I do hope you kick your completely very soon. I haven't really looked closely to compare the sizes between the Koi and the Silver – I thought they were about the same size. The Koi is about a year old, I'm not sure how old the Silver is but I would say it would be younger. What you mentioned about the colour strain of bonding, my fiancé mentioned that as well – he breeds birds and he had noticed that with his birds as well. You know, if makes you wonder how they know what they look like to mate with their own colour strain. We don't put a mirror in the tank so they know what they look like – it must be inbreeded in them. It has been exciting to get to know the type of Angels we have. We have just been choosing the ones we like the colours of. Is there a book that provides all the different types of tropical angelfish? Jasmine --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Raymond Wetzel" <sevenspringss@...> wrote: > > Hi Jasmine, Looks like you guys were really talking it up last night at the same time, and after, I was writing my last post. As this was one of the messages being generated while I was composing, I'll start here. Hope your cold is better -- I'm just getting rid of mine, but its been a real rough stretch of days from just before the past weekend, as I was hit with a double-wammy (chest & nasal) cold that left me BEAT. Much better today, but it's still lingering. > > You might note, by my question on this, that it's no surprise that your Angels WERE bought at different times, as I well knew from your picture of these procedings. What I couldn't know though, was that the Marble (male) was originally paired up with the Silver (female) Angel before adding these two fish with the pre-obtained Koi (female). Your description of these procedings makes perfect sense now, and I'd have to guess that the Silver Angel is somewhat smaller and younger than the Koi. The Koi was a real home-wrecker, huh? LOL. It's no surprise though, in the least, that the Marble was originally paired up with the Silver, with the Koi (large female) overpowering the Silver to succeed at finally pairing up with the Marble. I figured the strength of the Koi (and ONLY this fish's strength) had everything to do with the present bonding situation. > > A natural selection behavior I've come to learn, of years of observing this species is that -- In an environment of mixed domestic Angelfish color strains in the presence of the wild type (your Silver Angel is considered as close to wild type as possible), the first choice for pair bonding of ANY of the domestic color strains will ALWAYS and INEVITABLY be with the wild form before ANY OTHER color form present - and that includes a possible choice of a same color form. The ONLY reason why your Marble is now paired up with the Koi is that the Silver was overpowered by this stronger (and quite determined) female Koi. Contrary to what some hobbyists prefer to think, Angelfish will select a different mate when the situation is advantageous to them; they do not necessarily pair up for life (unless the hobbyist maintains them as such). > > This too comes as little surprise, as the second choice of ANY pair bonding in domestic color forms of Angelfish is almost ALWAYS (and just as INEVITABLY) a mate of THE SAME color strain, followed close behind but only after the same color -- a mate having at least some of the genes as does the pairing mate. I would say "ALAWYS" here too, rather than "almost ALWAYS" as I've never observed any other behavior, but there's usually at least one different situation somewhere. Actually, these two last pairings are mutual choices of both partners. In your case, your calico (tri-color, w/black included) Koi has Marble in its genes as Gold Marble is used as one of the fish to develop calico Koi. > > In the pairing of the wild form in the presence of only domestically developed color strains, ALL of the domestic Angels of opposite sex from the wild form will first be attracted to the wild form before any other choices are considered by them. It will be the choice of the wild form to accept whichever domestic Angel best suits it out of all potential mates. > > Wish I could fill you in more on the marking (and pimple-like growth) on the Silver Angel. As there is a growth opposite the pigmentation, I'm more inclined to believe it's more than just a marking too, even though I can't see the raised area well. The first impression is that it could be a melanoma, but it's too immature at this point for me to diagnose it as such (and hopefully, I'm completely wrong on that). As long as it doesn't get much worse, I can't see cause to be concerned about it at this point -- as long as it's not bothering the fish. It would serve little purpose anyway to be concerned since we don't know what we're dealing with. As it has made an appearance though, you can only expect it to grow over time -- hopefully slowly and not too soon detrimental to the fish's health. If, by chance, it doesn't grow so much the better. Keep us posted if you see a noticeable change. Ray > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 41377	From: Jasmine	Date: 6/25/2009
Subject: Re: Angels

Hi Bill The photos are under the 'Jasmine' folder but I'm unsure how to send you a link to them. Can anyone please explain to me how to do this and I can send Bill the link to the photos. Thanks Jasmine --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, bill 1433 <warrenprint@...> wrote: > > > Hi Jasmine, >   > I have been following along here but missed a link?  Can you help?  Where are these pictures you posted or under what folder? Can you give a link? >   > Bill > > --- On Wed, 6/24/09, Raymond Wetzel <sevenspringss@...> wrote: > > > From: Raymond Wetzel <sevenspringss@...> > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Angels > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Date: Wednesday, June 24, 2009, 8:40 AM > > > Hi Jasmine,  Looks like you guys were really talking it up last night at the same time, and after, I was writing my last post.  As this was one of the messages being generated while I was composing, I'll start here.  Hope your cold is better -- I'm just getting rid of mine, but its been a real rough stretch of days from just before the past weekend, as I was hit with a double-wammy (chest & nasal) cold that left me BEAT.  Much better today, but it's still lingering. > > You might note, by my question on this, that it's no surprise that your Angels WERE bought at different times, as I well knew from your picture of these procedings.  What I couldn't know though, was that the Marble (male) was originally paired up with the Silver (female) Angel before adding these two fish with the pre-obtained Koi (female).  Your description of these procedings makes perfect sense now, and I'd have to guess that the Silver Angel is somewhat smaller and younger than the Koi.  The Koi was a real home-wrecker, huh? LOL.  It's no surprise though, in the least, that the Marble was originally paired up with the Silver, with the Koi (large female) overpowering the Silver to succeed at finally pairing up with the Marble.  I figured the strength of the Koi (and ONLY this fish's strength) had everything to do with the present bonding situation. > > A natural selection behavior I've come to learn, of years of observing this species is that -- In an environment of mixed domestic Angelfish color strains in the presence of the wild type (your Silver Angel is considered as close to wild type as possible), the first choice for pair bonding of ANY of the domestic color strains will ALWAYS and INEVITABLY be with the wild form before ANY OTHER color form present - and that includes a possible choice of a same color form.  The ONLY reason why your Marble is now paired up with the Koi is that the Silver was overpowered by this stronger (and quite determined) female Koi.  Contrary to what some hobbyists prefer to think, Angelfish will select a different mate when the situation is advantageous to them; they do not necessarily pair up for life (unless the hobbyist maintains them as such).    > > This too comes as little surprise, as the second choice of ANY pair bonding in domestic color forms of Angelfish is almost ALWAYS (and just as INEVITABLY) a mate of THE SAME color strain, followed close behind but only after the same color -- a mate having at least some of the genes as does the pairing mate.  I would say "ALAWYS" here too, rather than "almost ALWAYS" as I've never observed any other behavior, but there's usually at least one different situation somewhere.  Actually, these two last pairings are mutual choices of both partners.  In your case, your calico (tri-color, w/black included) Koi has Marble in its genes as Gold Marble is used as one of the fish to develop calico Koi.  > > In the pairing of the wild form in the presence of only domestically developed color strains, ALL of the domestic Angels of opposite sex from the wild form will first be attracted to the wild form before any other choices are considered by them.  It will be the choice of the wild form to accept whichever domestic Angel best suits it out of all potential mates. > > Wish I could fill you in more on the marking (and pimple-like growth) on the Silver Angel.  As there is a growth opposite the pigmentation, I'm more inclined to believe it's more than just a marking too, even though I can't see the raised area well.  The first impression is that it could be a melanoma, but it's too immature at this point for me to diagnose it as such (and hopefully, I'm completely wrong on that).  As long as it doesn't get much worse, I can't see cause to be concerned about it at this point -- as long as it's not bothering the fish.  It would serve little purpose anyway to be concerned since we don't know what we're dealing with.  As it has made an appearance though, you can only expect it to grow over time -- hopefully slowly and not too soon detrimental to the fish's health.  If, by chance, it doesn't grow so much the better.  Keep us posted if you see a noticeable change.  Ray > >   > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Jasmine" <adonaikam@> wrote: > > > > Hi Ray. > > > > I might add â€" I found it extremely hard falling asleep last night â€" was thinking about the angelfishes, then again â€" it could have been the irritant of my coughing keeping me awake (I have a cold at present). > > > > The funny thing is, the Kio has been with us the longest.  We felt bad that it was on its own and have been keeping an eye out for a nice match for it but decided to get two mature angels which looked like they had paired off (which was the marble and silver female) and 4 baby angels to keep them all company. > > > > Once we introduced them into the main tank, the Kio took to the marble and chased the silver female away â€" it was so strange to see.  We have seen the female Kio and female Silver in lip tugger-ward twice. > > > > I don't believe it is just a black dot on the female silver.  The is a slight curvature in the location of the dot but because it keeps getting chased, it doesn't stay still long enough to obtain a good shot.  I'm not going to worry too much about it at present as it doesn't seem to be doing the fish any harm. > > > > Jasmine > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Raymond Wetzel" <sevenspringss@> wrote: > > > > > > Back again Jasmine,  Looks like I was writing my last reply to you as you were send these last 4 pics and this message.  I just now approved your latest pics, then looked them over.  Yep, the "exiled" Silver Angel IS a female, as I first thought.  BTW, did you happen to add this fish after you already had the pair (Marble & Koi)? > > > > > > I had a look at the area you circled on this fish, and if it were just a marking as that triangle-shaped spots appears to be on the one side, I'd say that, that's ALL it is, since today's mixed traits can be expected to show an odd spot here and there at times.  But if it's protruding out the other side, it would seem to be some sort of a growth.  My older monitor does not show the protrusion well enough for me to see it well.  Couldn't tell you what it is, and it would be premature at this stage for me to say it's some kind of internal parasite, but it is odd.  Unless someone else can diagnose it, I wouldn't tell you to try to treat it -- it's just good that it's not bothering the fish.  You might keep an eye on it, but still, without knowing the cause there's little you could do for it if it protrudes more -- unless it manifests itself as a pimple which you could then use a needle for, along with a topical antibiotic.  Ray > > > > > >  > > > > > > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Jasmine" <adonaikam@> wrote: > > > > > > > > Hi Ray > > > > > > > > I've managed to get two shots of the 'exiled' angel (right profile and left profile). > > > > > > > > It certainly doesn't have the same 'hump' on its head as the male you pointed out.  I always thought the hump may have been part of the type of angel it was - silly me. > > > > > > > > Several weeks ago we happen to notice that this same angel has a black pimple like mark - see photo titled 'Exiled angel_03 23.06.09'.  This black mark looks like it is protruding out of the other side of the fish - see 'Exiled angel_02 23.06.09'.  The mark doesn't seem to be causing any problems but I'm sure it has grown slightly since we first noticed it about 2 months ago.  It really reminds me of a black head pimple. > > > > > > > > I can't get a good shot of that area on the angel (as it hides most of the time).  When we get our other tank set up, the eco system all ready and the paired off angels transferred into that tank - I might be able to get a better shot then. > > > > > > > > Thanks again for you help and advice. > > > > Jasmine > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ------------------------------------ > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. > ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> > PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- > <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. > > If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the home page.  > > Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com to receive the digest, which includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email > > Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com for the No E-Mail option where you will still be able to read messages on the group and post replies. > > Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com to receive individual e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 41378	From: Jasmine	Date: 6/25/2009
Subject: Re: Angels

Thank you Amber --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, Amber Berglund <amber@...> wrote: > > They're in the group folders under "Jasmine" I believe... She has some > very pretty Angel's. > > Amber > > bill 1433 wrote: > > > > > > > > Hi Jasmine, > > > > I have been following along here but missed a link? Can you help? > > Where are these pictures you posted or under what folder? Can you give > > a link? > > > > Bill > > > > --- On Wed, 6/24/09, Raymond Wetzel <sevenspringss@... > > <mailto:sevenspringss%40wmconnect.com>> wrote: > > > > From: Raymond Wetzel <sevenspringss@... > > <mailto:sevenspringss%40wmconnect.com>> > > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Angels > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > Date: Wednesday, June 24, 2009, 8:40 AM > > > > Hi Jasmine, Looks like you guys were really talking it up last night > > at the same time, and after, I was writing my last post. As this was > > one of the messages being generated while I was composing, I'll start > > here. Hope your cold is better -- I'm just getting rid of mine, but > > its been a real rough stretch of days from just before the past > > weekend, as I was hit with a double-wammy (chest & nasal) cold that > > left me BEAT. Much better today, but it's still lingering. > > > > You might note, by my question on this, that it's no surprise that > > your Angels WERE bought at different times, as I well knew from your > > picture of these procedings. What I couldn't know though, was that > > the Marble (male) was originally paired up with the Silver (female) > > Angel before adding these two fish with the pre-obtained Koi > > (female). Your description of these procedings makes perfect sense > > now, and I'd have to guess that the Silver Angel is somewhat smaller > > and younger than the Koi. The Koi was a real home-wrecker, huh? LOL. > > It's no surprise though, in the least, that the Marble was originally > > paired up with the Silver, with the Koi (large female) overpowering > > the Silver to succeed at finally pairing up with the Marble. I > > figured the strength of the Koi (and ONLY this fish's strength) had > > everything to do with the present bonding situation. > > > > A natural selection behavior I've come to learn, of years of observing > > this species is that -- In an environment of mixed domestic Angelfish > > color strains in the presence of the wild type (your Silver Angel is > > considered as close to wild type as possible), the first choice for > > pair bonding of ANY of the domestic color strains will ALWAYS and > > INEVITABLY be with the wild form before ANY OTHER color form present - > > and that includes a possible choice of a same color form. The ONLY > > reason why your Marble is now paired up with the Koi is that the > > Silver was overpowered by this stronger (and quite determined) female > > Koi. Contrary to what some hobbyists prefer to think, Angelfish will > > select a different mate when the situation is advantageous to them; > > they do not necessarily pair up for life (unless the hobbyist > > maintains them as such). > > > > This too comes as little surprise, as the second choice of ANY pair > > bonding in domestic color forms of Angelfish is almost ALWAYS (and > > just as INEVITABLY) a mate of THE SAME color strain, followed close > > behind but only after the same color -- a mate having at least some of > > the genes as does the pairing mate. I would say "ALAWYS" here too, > > rather than "almost ALWAYS" as I've never observed any other behavior, > > but there's usually at least one different situation somewhere. > > Actually, these two last pairings are mutual choices of both > > partners. In your case, your calico (tri-color, w/black included) Koi > > has Marble in its genes as Gold Marble is used as one of the fish to > > develop calico Koi. > > > > In the pairing of the wild form in the presence of only domestically > > developed color strains, ALL of the domestic Angels of opposite sex > > from the wild form will first be attracted to the wild form before any > > other choices are considered by them. It will be the choice of the > > wild form to accept whichever domestic Angel best suits it out of all > > potential mates. > > > > Wish I could fill you in more on the marking (and pimple-like growth) > > on the Silver Angel. As there is a growth opposite the pigmentation, > > I'm more inclined to believe it's more than just a marking too, even > > though I can't see the raised area well. The first impression is that > > it could be a melanoma, but it's too immature at this point for me to > > diagnose it as such (and hopefully, I'm completely wrong on that). As > > long as it doesn't get much worse, I can't see cause to be concerned > > about it at this point -- as long as it's not bothering the fish. It > > would serve little purpose anyway to be concerned since we don't know > > what we're dealing with. As it has made an appearance though, you can > > only expect it to grow over time -- hopefully slowly and not too soon > > detrimental to the fish's health. If, by chance, it doesn't grow so > > much the better. Keep us posted if you see a noticeable change. Ray > > > > > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>, "Jasmine" <adonaikam@> wrote: > > > > > > Hi Ray. > > > > > > I might add â€" I found it extremely hard falling asleep last night â€" > > was thinking about the angelfishes, then again â€" it could have been > > the irritant of my coughing keeping me awake (I have a cold at present). > > > > > > The funny thing is, the Kio has been with us the longest. We felt > > bad that it was on its own and have been keeping an eye out for a nice > > match for it but decided to get two mature angels which looked like > > they had paired off (which was the marble and silver female) and 4 > > baby angels to keep them all company. > > > > > > Once we introduced them into the main tank, the Kio took to the > > marble and chased the silver female away â€" it was so strange to see. > > We have seen the female Kio and female Silver in lip tugger-ward twice. > > > > > > I don't believe it is just a black dot on the female silver. The is > > a slight curvature in the location of the dot but because it keeps > > getting chased, it doesn't stay still long enough to obtain a good > > shot. I'm not going to worry too much about it at present as it > > doesn't seem to be doing the fish any harm. > > > > > > Jasmine > > > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>, "Raymond Wetzel" > > <sevenspringss@> wrote: > > > > > > > > Back again Jasmine, Looks like I was writing my last reply to you > > as you were send these last 4 pics and this message. I just now > > approved your latest pics, then looked them over. Yep, the "exiled" > > Silver Angel IS a female, as I first thought. BTW, did you happen to > > add this fish after you already had the pair (Marble & Koi)? > > > > > > > > I had a look at the area you circled on this fish, and if it were > > just a marking as that triangle-shaped spots appears to be on the one > > side, I'd say that, that's ALL it is, since today's mixed traits can > > be expected to show an odd spot here and there at times. But if it's > > protruding out the other side, it would seem to be some sort of a > > growth. My older monitor does not show the protrusion well enough for > > me to see it well. Couldn't tell you what it is, and it would be > > premature at this stage for me to say it's some kind of internal > > parasite, but it is odd. Unless someone else can diagnose it, I > > wouldn't tell you to try to treat it -- it's just good that it's not > > bothering the fish. You might keep an eye on it, but still, without > > knowing the cause there's little you could do for it if it protrudes > > more -- unless it manifests itself as a pimple which you could then > > use a needle for, along with a topical antibiotic. Ray > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>, "Jasmine" <adonaikam@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > Hi Ray > > > > > > > > > > I've managed to get two shots of the 'exiled' angel (right > > profile and left profile). > > > > > > > > > > It certainly doesn't have the same 'hump' on its head as the > > male you pointed out. I always thought the hump may have been part of > > the type of angel it was - silly me. > > > > > > > > > > Several weeks ago we happen to notice that this same angel has a > > black pimple like mark - see photo titled 'Exiled angel_03 23.06.09'. > > This black mark looks like it is protruding out of the other side of > > the fish - see 'Exiled angel_02 23.06.09'. The mark doesn't seem to > > be causing any problems but I'm sure it has grown slightly since we > > first noticed it about 2 months ago. It really reminds me of a black > > head pimple. > > > > > > > > > > I can't get a good shot of that area on the angel (as it hides > > most of the time). When we get our other tank set up, the eco system > > all ready and the paired off angels transferred into that tank - I > > might be able to get a better shot then. > > > > > > > > > > Thanks again for you help and advice. > > > > > Jasmine > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ------------------------------------ > > > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. > > ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> > > PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT > > important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message > > MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- > > <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. > > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. > > > > If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of unsubscribing, > > you can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My > > Membership" on the home page. > > > > Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com > > <mailto:aquaticlife-digest%40yahoogroups.com> to receive the digest, > > which includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email > > > > Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com > > <mailto:aquaticlife-nomail%40yahoogroups.com> for the No E-Mail option > > where you will still be able to read messages on the group and post > > replies. > > > > Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com > > <mailto:aquaticlife-normal%40yahoogroups.com> to receive individual > > e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 41379	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 6/25/2009
Subject: Re: Angels

I'm sure Ray knows of some books but the man he referred someone else to recently, for buying quality Angelfish, Steve Rybicki at AngelsPlus.com, has his website with all kinds of GOOD info on it. This page http://www.angelsplus.com/AvailableAngelfish.htm, on the left, lists the various Angelfish strains that he sells or has bred and each link has multiple pictures of the fish. Here's a couple of articles, actually Part I and II, each article is four pages long, about genetics, breeding, etc. http://www.angelsplus.com/ArticleGenetics.htm http://www.angelsplus.com/ArticleGenetics2.htm He also has a lot of other articles, not only about Angelfish care, breeding, etc., but about other fish topics as well, including one on Osmoregulation that I will be adding to my blog article about non-disease health issues in fish. The stress-related health issues caused by osmoregulation is a very common problem for fish that many fish keepers do not realize. http://www.angelsplus.com/fisharticles.htm Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Jasmine Sent: Thursday, June 25, 2009 4:10 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Angels Hi Ray I'm glad you are on the mend. I think mine has had a slight twist today – I started sneezing. All week with I've only had a slight temp, coughing and headaches. Thankfully, it hasn't travelled to my chest. However, starting today – I've been sneezing with nasal congestion and my head is starting to feel heavy. Not a good sign. Thank goodness I still have some paid sick leave up my sleeve. I do hope you kick your completely very soon. I haven't really looked closely to compare the sizes between the Koi and the Silver – I thought they were about the same size. The Koi is about a year old, I'm not sure how old the Silver is but I would say it would be younger. What you mentioned about the colour strain of bonding, my fiancé mentioned that as well – he breeds birds and he had noticed that with his birds as well. You know, if makes you wonder how they know what they look like to mate with their own colour strain. We don't put a mirror in the tank so they know what they look like – it must be inbreeded in them. It has been exciting to get to know the type of Angels we have. We have just been choosing the ones we like the colours of. Is there a book that provides all the different types of tropical angelfish? Jasmine --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Raymond Wetzel" <sevenspringss@...> wrote: > > Hi Jasmine, Looks like you guys were really talking it up last night at the same time, and after, I was writing my last post. As this was one of the messages being generated while I was composing, I'll start here. Hope your cold is better -- I'm just getting rid of mine, but its been a real rough stretch of days from just before the past weekend, as I was hit with a double-wammy (chest & nasal) cold that left me BEAT. Much better today, but it's still lingering. > > You might note, by my question on this, that it's no surprise that your Angels WERE bought at different times, as I well knew from your picture of these procedings. What I couldn't know though, was that the Marble (male) was originally paired up with the Silver (female) Angel before adding these two fish with the pre-obtained Koi (female). Your description of these procedings makes perfect sense now, and I'd have to guess that the Silver Angel is somewhat smaller and younger than the Koi. The Koi was a real home-wrecker, huh? LOL. It's no surprise though, in the least, that the Marble was originally paired up with the Silver, with the Koi (large female) overpowering the Silver to succeed at finally pairing up with the Marble. I figured the strength of the Koi (and ONLY this fish's strength) had everything to do with the present bonding situation. > > A natural selection behavior I've come to learn, of years of observing this species is that -- In an environment of mixed domestic Angelfish color strains in the presence of the wild type (your Silver Angel is considered as close to wild type as possible), the first choice for pair bonding of ANY of the domestic color strains will ALWAYS and INEVITABLY be with the wild form before ANY OTHER color form present - and that includes a possible choice of a same color form. The ONLY reason why your Marble is now paired up with the Koi is that the Silver was overpowered by this stronger (and quite determined) female Koi. Contrary to what some hobbyists prefer to think, Angelfish will select a different mate when the situation is advantageous to them; they do not necessarily pair up for life (unless the hobbyist maintains them as such). > > This too comes as little surprise, as the second choice of ANY pair bonding in domestic color forms of Angelfish is almost ALWAYS (and just as INEVITABLY) a mate of THE SAME color strain, followed close behind but only after the same color -- a mate having at least some of the genes as does the pairing mate. I would say "ALAWYS" here too, rather than "almost ALWAYS" as I've never observed any other behavior, but there's usually at least one different situation somewhere. Actually, these two last pairings are mutual choices of both partners. In your case, your calico (tri-color, w/black included) Koi has Marble in its genes as Gold Marble is used as one of the fish to develop calico Koi. > > In the pairing of the wild form in the presence of only domestically developed color strains, ALL of the domestic Angels of opposite sex from the wild form will first be attracted to the wild form before any other choices are considered by them. It will be the choice of the wild form to accept whichever domestic Angel best suits it out of all potential mates. > > Wish I could fill you in more on the marking (and pimple-like growth) > on the Silver Angel. As there is a growth opposite the pigmentation, > I'm more inclined to believe it's more than just a marking too, even > though I can't see the raised area well. The first impression is that > it could be a melanoma, but it's too immature at this point for me to > diagnose it as such (and hopefully, I'm completely wrong on that). As > long as it doesn't get much worse, I can't see cause to be concerned > about it at this point -- as long as it's not bothering the fish. It > would serve little purpose anyway to be concerned since we don't know > what we're dealing with. As it has made an appearance though, you can > only expect it to grow over time -- hopefully slowly and not too soon > detrimental to the fish's health. If, by chance, it doesn't grow so > much the better. Keep us posted if you see a noticeable change. Ray

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 41380	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 6/25/2009
Subject: Re: Angels

Go to the main group's website photo album section, http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife/photos. Once there, you can sort the album folders in many ways. If referring to recently uploaded photos, the simplest way, which I use, is on the top right, click the link for "Last Modified" which will sort the albums by the most recently modified. Then click on the album by name if there are more than one that was recently modified. The link to the Jasmine album is http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife/photos/album/114176089/pic/list On a side note, I checked out your other photos and I see your UV Filtration Rod (and Uncle Wormie's pics...LOL), as you referred to it in this or another thread. I'm not sure that "UV Filtration Rod" would be the proper term for that piece of equipment. That appears to be an in-tank UV filter system with it's own pump (square section with suction cups) and the gray oval section, with a wire going into the top is likely the UV light housing. I see what looks to be an intake on one side of that, with some filter padding to keep big stuff out of it, and then the top inverted-L tube is the discharge tube... right? Since it looks like it takes in water that would be coming across the back of the tank, I would point the inverted-L discharge tube in the opposite direction to create a circular water flow. I'm sure you have other filtration/circulation as well so maybe those other sources gives you adequate flow to make sure ALL water eventually gets sucked into the UV filter. I actually kind of like that system as it's compact and portable so it can be moved from tank to tank with ease and just suction cups onto the glass. Do you have a manufacturers name and/or model number? Oh yeah.. make sure you clean that filter padding on the intake on a regular basis to ensure a proper water flow rate. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Jasmine Sent: Thursday, June 25, 2009 4:18 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Angels Hi Bill The photos are under the 'Jasmine' folder but I'm unsure how to send you a link to them. Can anyone please explain to me how to do this and I can send Bill the link to the photos. Thanks Jasmine --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, bill 1433 <warrenprint@...> wrote: > > > Hi Jasmine, >  > I have been following along here but missed a link? Can you help? Where are these pictures you posted or under what folder? Can you give a link? >  > Bill > > --- On Wed, 6/24/09, Raymond Wetzel <sevenspringss@...> wrote: > > > From: Raymond Wetzel <sevenspringss@...> > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Angels > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Date: Wednesday, June 24, 2009, 8:40 AM > > > Hi Jasmine, Looks like you guys were really talking it up last night at the same time, and after, I was writing my last post. As this was one of the messages being generated while I was composing, I'll start here. Hope your cold is better -- I'm just getting rid of mine, but its been a real rough stretch of days from just before the past weekend, as I was hit with a double-wammy (chest & nasal) cold that left me BEAT. Much better today, but it's still lingering. > > You might note, by my question on this, that it's no surprise that your Angels WERE bought at different times, as I well knew from your picture of these procedings. What I couldn't know though, was that the Marble (male) was originally paired up with the Silver (female) Angel before adding these two fish with the pre-obtained Koi (female). Your description of these procedings makes perfect sense now, and I'd have to guess that the Silver Angel is somewhat smaller and younger than the Koi. The Koi was a real home-wrecker, huh? LOL. It's no surprise though, in the least, that the Marble was originally paired up with the Silver, with the Koi (large female) overpowering the Silver to succeed at finally pairing up with the Marble. I figured the strength of the Koi (and ONLY this fish's strength) had everything to do with the present bonding situation. > > A natural selection behavior I've come to learn, of years of observing > this species is that -- In an environment of mixed domestic Angelfish > color strains in the presence of the wild type (your Silver Angel is > considered as close to wild type as possible), the first choice for > pair bonding of ANY of the domestic color strains will ALWAYS and > INEVITABLY be with the wild form before ANY OTHER color form present - > and that includes a possible choice of a same color form. The ONLY > reason why your Marble is now paired up with the Koi is that the > Silver was overpowered by this stronger (and quite determined) female > Koi. Contrary to what some hobbyists prefer to think, Angelfish will > select a different mate when the situation is advantageous to them; > they do not necessarily pair up for life (unless the hobbyist > maintains them as such).  > > This too comes as little surprise, as the second choice of ANY pair > bonding in domestic color forms of Angelfish is almost ALWAYS (and > just as INEVITABLY) a mate of THE SAME color strain, followed close > behind but only after the same color -- a mate having at least some of > the genes as does the pairing mate. I would say "ALAWYS" here too, > rather than "almost ALWAYS" as I've never observed any other behavior, > but there's usually at least one different situation somewhere. > Actually, these two last pairings are mutual choices of both > partners. In your case, your calico (tri-color, w/black included) > Koi has Marble in its genes as Gold Marble is used as one of the fish > to develop calico Koi. > > In the pairing of the wild form in the presence of only domestically developed color strains, ALL of the domestic Angels of opposite sex from the wild form will first be attracted to the wild form before any other choices are considered by them. It will be the choice of the wild form to accept whichever domestic Angel best suits it out of all potential mates. > > Wish I could fill you in more on the marking (and pimple-like growth) > on the Silver Angel. As there is a growth opposite the pigmentation, > I'm more inclined to believe it's more than just a marking too, even > though I can't see the raised area well. The first impression is > that it could be a melanoma, but it's too immature at this point for > me to diagnose it as such (and hopefully, I'm completely wrong on > that). As long as it doesn't get much worse, I can't see cause to be > concerned about it at this point -- as long as it's not bothering the > fish. It would serve little purpose anyway to be concerned since we > don't know what we're dealing with. As it has made an appearance > though, you can only expect it to grow over time -- hopefully slowly > and not too soon detrimental to the fish's health. If, by chance, it > doesn't grow so much the better. Keep us posted if you see a > noticeable change. Ray > >  > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Jasmine" <adonaikam@> wrote: > > > > Hi Ray. > > > > I might add â€" I found it extremely hard falling asleep last night â€" was thinking about the angelfishes, then again â€" it could have been the irritant of my coughing keeping me awake (I have a cold at present). > > > > The funny thing is, the Kio has been with us the longest. We felt bad that it was on its own and have been keeping an eye out for a nice match for it but decided to get two mature angels which looked like they had paired off (which was the marble and silver female) and 4 baby angels to keep them all company. > > > > Once we introduced them into the main tank, the Kio took to the marble and chased the silver female away â€" it was so strange to see. We have seen the female Kio and female Silver in lip tugger-ward twice. > > > > I don't believe it is just a black dot on the female silver. The is a slight curvature in the location of the dot but because it keeps getting chased, it doesn't stay still long enough to obtain a good shot. I'm not going to worry too much about it at present as it doesn't seem to be doing the fish any harm. > > > > Jasmine > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Raymond Wetzel" <sevenspringss@> wrote: > > > > > > Back again Jasmine, Looks like I was writing my last reply to you as you were send these last 4 pics and this message. I just now approved your latest pics, then looked them over. Yep, the "exiled" Silver Angel IS a female, as I first thought. BTW, did you happen to add this fish after you already had the pair (Marble & Koi)? > > > > > > I had a look at the area you circled on this fish, and if it were > > > just a marking as that triangle-shaped spots appears to be on the > > > one side, I'd say that, that's ALL it is, since today's mixed > > > traits can be expected to show an odd spot here and there at > > > times. But if it's protruding out the other side, it would seem > > > to be some sort of a growth. My older monitor does not show the > > > protrusion well enough for me to see it well. Couldn't tell you > > > what it is, and it would be premature at this stage for me to say > > > it's some kind of internal parasite, but it is odd. Unless > > > someone else can diagnose it, I wouldn't tell you to try to treat > > > it -- it's just good that it's not bothering the fish. You might > > > keep an eye on it, but still, without knowing the cause there's > > > little you could do for it if it protrudes more -- unless it > > > manifests itself as a pimple which you could then use a needle > > > for, along with a topical antibiotic. Ray > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Jasmine" <adonaikam@> wrote: > > > > > > > > Hi Ray > > > > > > > > I've managed to get two shots of the 'exiled' angel (right profile and left profile). > > > > > > > > It certainly doesn't have the same 'hump' on its head as the male you pointed out. I always thought the hump may have been part of the type of angel it was - silly me. > > > > > > > > Several weeks ago we happen to notice that this same angel has a black pimple like mark - see photo titled 'Exiled angel_03 23.06.09'. This black mark looks like it is protruding out of the other side of the fish - see 'Exiled angel_02 23.06.09'. The mark doesn't seem to be causing any problems but I'm sure it has grown slightly since we first noticed it about 2 months ago. It really reminds me of a black head pimple. > > > > > > > > I can't get a good shot of that area on the angel (as it hides most of the time). When we get our other tank set up, the eco system all ready and the paired off angels transferred into that tank - I might be able to get a better shot then. > > > > > > > > Thanks again for you help and advice. > > > > Jasmine

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 41381	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 6/25/2009
Subject: Re: Angels

That's the difference between guys and chicks... Amber looked at your pics and mentioned the "pretty Angel's" and I looked at your pics and talked about the UV Filter System and Uncle Wormie's bush-farm pics. ;-) UGH, UGH!... me man, you woman! Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Jasmine Sent: Thursday, June 25, 2009 4:20 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Angels Thank you Amber --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, Amber Berglund <amber@...> wrote: > > They're in the group folders under "Jasmine" I believe... She has some > very pretty Angel's. > > Amber > > bill 1433 wrote: > > > > > > > > Hi Jasmine, > > > > I have been following along here but missed a link? Can you help? > > Where are these pictures you posted or under what folder? Can you > > give a link? > > > > Bill > > > > --- On Wed, 6/24/09, Raymond Wetzel <sevenspringss@... > > <mailto:sevenspringss%40wmconnect.com>> wrote: > > > > From: Raymond Wetzel <sevenspringss@... > > <mailto:sevenspringss%40wmconnect.com>> > > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Angels > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > Date: Wednesday, June 24, 2009, 8:40 AM > > > > Hi Jasmine, Looks like you guys were really talking it up last > > night at the same time, and after, I was writing my last post. As > > this was one of the messages being generated while I was composing, > > I'll start here. Hope your cold is better -- I'm just getting rid > > of mine, but its been a real rough stretch of days from just before > > the past weekend, as I was hit with a double-wammy (chest & nasal) > > cold that left me BEAT. Much better today, but it's still lingering. > > > > You might note, by my question on this, that it's no surprise that > > your Angels WERE bought at different times, as I well knew from your > > picture of these procedings. What I couldn't know though, was that > > the Marble (male) was originally paired up with the Silver (female) > > Angel before adding these two fish with the pre-obtained Koi > > (female). Your description of these procedings makes perfect sense > > now, and I'd have to guess that the Silver Angel is somewhat smaller > > and younger than the Koi. The Koi was a real home-wrecker, huh? LOL. > > It's no surprise though, in the least, that the Marble was > > originally paired up with the Silver, with the Koi (large female) > > overpowering the Silver to succeed at finally pairing up with the > > Marble. I figured the strength of the Koi (and ONLY this fish's > > strength) had everything to do with the present bonding situation. > > > > A natural selection behavior I've come to learn, of years of > > observing this species is that -- In an environment of mixed > > domestic Angelfish color strains in the presence of the wild type > > (your Silver Angel is considered as close to wild type as possible), > > the first choice for pair bonding of ANY of the domestic color > > strains will ALWAYS and INEVITABLY be with the wild form before ANY > > OTHER color form present - and that includes a possible choice of a > > same color form. The ONLY reason why your Marble is now paired up > > with the Koi is that the Silver was overpowered by this stronger > > (and quite determined) female Koi. Contrary to what some hobbyists > > prefer to think, Angelfish will select a different mate when the > > situation is advantageous to them; they do not necessarily pair up for life (unless the hobbyist > > maintains them as such). > > > > This too comes as little surprise, as the second choice of ANY pair > > bonding in domestic color forms of Angelfish is almost ALWAYS (and > > just as INEVITABLY) a mate of THE SAME color strain, followed close > > behind but only after the same color -- a mate having at least some > > of the genes as does the pairing mate. I would say "ALAWYS" here > > too, rather than "almost ALWAYS" as I've never observed any other > > behavior, but there's usually at least one different situation somewhere. > > Actually, these two last pairings are mutual choices of both > > partners. In your case, your calico (tri-color, w/black included) > > Koi has Marble in its genes as Gold Marble is used as one of the > > fish to develop calico Koi. > > > > In the pairing of the wild form in the presence of only domestically > > developed color strains, ALL of the domestic Angels of opposite sex > > from the wild form will first be attracted to the wild form before > > any other choices are considered by them. It will be the choice of > > the wild form to accept whichever domestic Angel best suits it out > > of all potential mates. > > > > Wish I could fill you in more on the marking (and pimple-like > > growth) on the Silver Angel. As there is a growth opposite the > > pigmentation, I'm more inclined to believe it's more than just a > > marking too, even though I can't see the raised area well. The > > first impression is that it could be a melanoma, but it's too > > immature at this point for me to diagnose it as such (and hopefully, > > I'm completely wrong on that). As long as it doesn't get much > > worse, I can't see cause to be concerned about it at this point -- > > as long as it's not bothering the fish. It would serve little > > purpose anyway to be concerned since we don't know what we're > > dealing with. As it has made an appearance though, you can only > > expect it to grow over time -- hopefully slowly and not too soon > > detrimental to the fish's health. If, by chance, it doesn't grow so > > much the better. Keep us posted if you see a noticeable change. > > Ray > > > > > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>, "Jasmine" <adonaikam@> wrote: > > > > > > Hi Ray. > > > > > > I might add â€" I found it extremely hard falling asleep last night â€" > > was thinking about the angelfishes, then again â€" it could have > > been the irritant of my coughing keeping me awake (I have a cold at present). > > > > > > The funny thing is, the Kio has been with us the longest. We felt > > bad that it was on its own and have been keeping an eye out for a > > nice match for it but decided to get two mature angels which looked > > like they had paired off (which was the marble and silver female) > > and 4 baby angels to keep them all company. > > > > > > Once we introduced them into the main tank, the Kio took to the > > marble and chased the silver female away â€" it was so strange to see. > > We have seen the female Kio and female Silver in lip tugger-ward twice. > > > > > > I don't believe it is just a black dot on the female silver. The > > > is > > a slight curvature in the location of the dot but because it keeps > > getting chased, it doesn't stay still long enough to obtain a good > > shot. I'm not going to worry too much about it at present as it > > doesn't seem to be doing the fish any harm. > > > > > > Jasmine > > > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>, "Raymond Wetzel" > > <sevenspringss@> wrote: > > > > > > > > Back again Jasmine, Looks like I was writing my last reply to > > > > you > > as you were send these last 4 pics and this message. I just now > > approved your latest pics, then looked them over. Yep, the "exiled" > > Silver Angel IS a female, as I first thought. BTW, did you happen > > to add this fish after you already had the pair (Marble & Koi)? > > > > > > > > I had a look at the area you circled on this fish, and if it > > > > were > > just a marking as that triangle-shaped spots appears to be on the > > one side, I'd say that, that's ALL it is, since today's mixed traits > > can be expected to show an odd spot here and there at times. But if > > it's protruding out the other side, it would seem to be some sort of > > a growth. My older monitor does not show the protrusion well enough > > for me to see it well. Couldn't tell you what it is, and it would > > be premature at this stage for me to say it's some kind of internal > > parasite, but it is odd. Unless someone else can diagnose it, I > > wouldn't tell you to try to treat it -- it's just good that it's not > > bothering the fish. You might keep an eye on it, but still, without > > knowing the cause there's little you could do for it if it protrudes > > more -- unless it manifests itself as a pimple which you could then > > use a needle for, along with a topical antibiotic. Ray > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>, "Jasmine" <adonaikam@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > Hi Ray > > > > > > > > > > I've managed to get two shots of the 'exiled' angel (right > > profile and left profile). > > > > > > > > > > It certainly doesn't have the same 'hump' on its head as the > > male you pointed out. I always thought the hump may have been part > > of the type of angel it was - silly me. > > > > > > > > > > Several weeks ago we happen to notice that this same angel has > > > > > a > > black pimple like mark - see photo titled 'Exiled angel_03 23.06.09'. > > This black mark looks like it is protruding out of the other side of > > the fish - see 'Exiled angel_02 23.06.09'. The mark doesn't seem to > > be causing any problems but I'm sure it has grown slightly since we > > first noticed it about 2 months ago. It really reminds me of a > > black head pimple. > > > > > > > > > > I can't get a good shot of that area on the angel (as it hides > > most of the time). When we get our other tank set up, the eco > > system all ready and the paired off angels transferred into that > > tank - I might be able to get a better shot then. > > > > > > > > > > Thanks again for you help and advice. > > > > > Jasmine

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 41382	From: Jasmine	Date: 6/25/2009
Subject: Re: Sexing Angelfish, was: Pleco verse Bristlenose

I thought these mystery snails were both male and female in one. MMM better do some more reading on this. Thank you for mentioning about placing them in the pond though. We have two locations outside where we keep goldfish. One is a small 3 tier pond, the other is an old spa bath we were given. We ended up placing the goldfish fry in the spa by accident as we didn't realise the plant we took from the tier pond had eggs that were just begining to hatch. Both these areas have/had mystery snails placed in them BUT with our -8 degrees Celsius the other week and a nice layer of ice over the spa -- I don't think the snails would have survived. We were surprised however to see that the baby goldfish did survive. --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@...> wrote: > > You should find a local fish store that wants to sell them and then you can > start breeding them. The main color for Mystery Snails is "golden" but > there are also black, purple is getting popular and I've heard that blue and > green variants have been started. > > You might want to check with your local laws about putting them in your > pond. Some areas have laws against that as they could be introduced into > the ecosystem as a non-native species, although if you have really cold > winters, they may not survive overwintering. > > They need to lay their egg clutches above the water line for the eggs to > have any chance of hatching so if you fill your tank up as high as possible, > that will dissuade them from laying eggs or the eggs will not become viable. > Or, as you see them mating, you could separate the males and females into > separate tanks/pond so that you only have ALL males or ALL females in your > tank. That would put an end to the breeding also. There is a way to sex > them but it's not easy. The easiest way is to catch them in the act. The > Applesnail.net website has LOTS of info on sexing, breeding, etc. > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right > side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) > > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On > Behalf Of Jasmine > Sent: Wednesday, June 24, 2009 7:53 AM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Sexing Angelfish, was: Pleco verse Bristlenose > > Hi Lenny > > Not its the same snails. They are yellowish and grow to about 2". > When we first purchased them, we were told they were hard to breed and not > to worry. Then we found our first lot of eggs you described. Not really > sure what they were, we left them - mmmm - we ended up with heaps and heaps > and heaps of snails. > > I put some out in the outside pond with the gold fish. I place some in the > quarentine tank - we still have one of the original parents. > > From that time on, we kept removing the eggs until the little blighters > decided to go up the outlet pipe and lay eggs up there (a HUGE) sack of > them. > > We kept an eye on that area and kept removing the eggs, then they found > another spot that was hard for us to find. So now we keep an eye there too. > They are sneaky buggers (ops, am I allowed to say that here!) > > We just managed to off load about 30 of them leaving us with about 8 fully > grown ones. Today we saw a tini tiny baby one - about a couple of days old. > There are more eggs somewhere. > > They must really love the tank. > > Jasmine > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@> > wrote: > > > > OK. But now I want to clarify what you are calling "Mystery snails". > > Mystery snails are actually the common name given to a snail that > > grows to around 2" and the smaller cousin to the Apple Snail > > http://www.applesnail.net/ and is not a prolific breeder (in most > > cases) and is actually purchased by folks as pets to go into their > > community tanks as part of a clean-up crew and/or tank mate in smaller > > tanks like 5G tanks, to go with a Betta or other single display fish. > > They sell for a couple of dollars each in many pet/fish stores. They > > are not generally known as nuisance snails. Their populations are > > easy to control since they are egg layers and lay a large (teaspoon > > size) clutch of eggs above the waterline so if one does not want more > > Mystery Snails, you can simply scoop the egg clutch out. I just want > > to be sure you are not calling one of the several species of nuisance > > snails by the wrong name. Also, there are other ways to control > > nuisance snails instead of getting clown loaches, including one of the > > smaller dwarf species of loaches that eat snails and various ways of > trapping nuisance snails. > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles > > referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically > > under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] > > On Behalf Of Jasmine > > Sent: Wednesday, June 24, 2009 1:51 AM > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Sexing Angelfish, was: Pleco verse > > Bristlenose > > > > We purchased the clown loaches to keep the snail population down. Who > > know that Mystery snails breed so profusely LOL. The clown loaches did a > > fantastic job too. Since getting the angels, i think i've found a new > fish > > that may keep the population of snails down. > > > > I have booked marked the links you have provided, thank you. > > Jasmine > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" > > <GoldLenny@> > > wrote: > > > > > > Not that it is ever good to lose a fish to disease but the Clown > > > Loaches were not a suitable fish for your tanks anyhow. They grow > > > to well over a foot long and should be kept in groups of five or > > > more with three being a minimal amount. Because of this, they would > > > need a 6' long tank, at least, to give them proper swimming/growing > room. > > > > > > For your 36" long tank, you want to keep fish that stay under 6" as > > > full grown adults and if they are FAST swimming fish, then under 4.5" > > > as full grown adults. See my blog article for a simple set of > > > guidelines on stocking a tank so it does not get overstocked. > > > > > > http://goldlenny.blogspot.com/2007/02/new-rules-guidelines-to-replace-1-per. > > > html > > > > > > Start using http://fish.mongabay.com and use the Search Box to look > > > up the common names or scientific names of proposed fish, that you > > > might be thinking about, to see the profiles/care sheets on Mongabay > > > which are very good. They also show tank size recommendations, > > > water parameter preferences, breeding info, feeding info, etc., > > > including an SC section which is for Suggested Companions to help > > > you keep from making a compatibility match problem. > > > > > > You should also quarantine for much longer than a week. Most folks > > > like to go 3-4 weeks at least. > > > > > > I'll let Ray answer the angelfish breeding questions. He's one of > > > the experts out here on that topic! > > > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles > > > referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, > > > alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 41383	From: Jasmine	Date: 6/25/2009
Subject: Re: Responses to Angels please help.

Sorry, did I understand that you empty your bag into a bucket and add the water from your tank into the bucket (1 large cup every ten minutes)? I normally place the seal bag in my tank, allowing it to float for 20 to 30 minutes before I slowly mix the water and allowing the fish to swim out. Note: I first ask the LFS what their water reading is and ensure my water is similar. I even brought my bristlenose first to ensure it would survive. Left the tank for a week or two with just the bristlenose then went out and got my other fish. Also, if the fish store is about 20 - 30 minutes drive from home - I advise the LFS so they can prepare the fish for the journey AND I also ensure I have a 'hot & cold pack' bag with a few towels (this ensure I keep the temp fairly constant). Jasmine --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "anallafamily.2001" <anallafamily.2001@...> wrote: > > I got plenty of responsies with almost all the same questions. > water testing... > The water test that i have been doing is Nitrite, water is testing at 0ppm, ammonia might be high to day at 1.0, and ph is at 6.6. > chemicals... > when setting up the tank i used discuss buffer to lower ph and i used another chemical to get chlorine out. I have also put aquarium salt in tank 1 time (someone suggested it to boost amunity in new fish. > Buying and acclamating..... > Ok so i have been buying them at the local walmart because they are cheeper. But I put them in a 5 gal. bucket with there water and a large cup of my water and let them sit 10 min. then add another large cup of my water and let sit another 5min. then i dip net them in my tank not adding any of the water. > Tank.... > It is a 55 gal tank with 2 filters on each end and a whisper air pump. I had the tank set up for about 10 weeks but only tryed to add the fish in the last 2weeks. > I don't know, but i think i have answered all questions. > thanks Jo >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 41384	From: Jasmine	Date: 6/25/2009
Subject: Re: Sexing Angelfish, was: Pleco verse Bristlenose

Isn't it amazing how exited you get when learning about things you enjoy! – how I wished school had been like that. OMG you for real! 200 to 250 fry – what would you do with that many fry LOL. We have enough trouble keeping to the PWC's now – don't want to keep that many angelfish anyway. How effective would a 4' tank be with a divider in it? Its good to know about the volume of fry that we could inherit (mmm). We were thinking of maybe another 3' tank but I think it might be more feasible with something slightly bigger. Yes we made a mistake with the silver sharks, wasn't until after we got them that I did my research (I didn't do the golden rule – do research FIRST!). Thank you for letting me know that they grow fast - didn't realize that. I'll let my fiancé know and see if he will find new homes for them (there his fish) So if we were to set up our hexagonal tank operational (see below for sizing) and place the breeding pair in it until they spawn. After 4 weeks move the fry into a 4' tank of their own. Would that be ok? Sizing of the Octagonal tank (by the way, we inherited this for free from our neighbors and a photo has been added) Height – 55cm Width – 50 cm between opposite vertices Depth – 45 cm between opposite sides Volume – approx 88 Liters On another note – we have been talking about having a tank built to fill a cavity in one of our wall units were a TV currently located (TV hasn't been used in months). I don't have measurements at this stage as it has been all talk. We are not even sure how we would do the filtration or PWC if we did get one built. To help you understand what I mean by the TV unit – I've posted a photo of it. Jasmine --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Raymond Wetzel" <sevenspringss@...> wrote: > > Hi Jasmine, Alright, I noticed you had no trouble re-captioning the Male Marble Angel. I approved your last pic -- Mystery Snails -- a couple hours ago, so that should have all you pics in your album. > > Always neat to see the parents raising their fry. BTW, since you're asking, it's FRY whether singular or pleural -- same as the singular of fish is FISH and the pleural of two or more of the same species of fish is also FISH (the pleural of two or more difference species is actually FISHES, even though it may sound somewhat strange in certain contexts to the untrained ear). > > If you're thinking of raising the fry with the parents you'll need a tank at least as large as your currently main tank -- and a 4' tank would not be too large to transfer them to after 4 weeks. Angelfish spawns can number on the average of 200 to 250 fry, sometimes less (like 150 - 175), but then sometimes more (up to 400 or so); partly as as result of how well you condition them -- on what foods and how often. A spawn of 400 Angels will require two 4' tanks to comfortable raise them to selling size -- unless you plan on every other day PWC's. > > Sorry to hear about the Ich (white-spot) outbreak causing the deaths of your Clown Loaches. If you ever decide on getting these fish again, be sure to make prior arrangement with the store owner to be able to trade them in for smaller ones as the first group (and you should preferably have 4 or 5) of them get too large. They grow somewhat slower than many other fish, but they'll get to 12". Along these same lines, your Silver (Bala) Sharks will get to between 15" and 18", so be forewarned that they'll be outgrowing your tank -- AND they grow fast. Your Tetras will not be safe with them. > > Getting back to the juvenile Angelfish (at 4 weeks of age), since you'd probably have at least 200 of them, it would not be a good idea to put them into the main tank at this stage. They will still be only about 3/4 the size of a dime, and would be fair game for the Silver Sharks (which you should look into re-homing), not to mention promoting crowded conditions for the rest of the main tank's fish as they grow to selling size. You would need to get another fish tank. Ray > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Jasmine" <adonaikam@> wrote: > > > > Hi Ray > > I guess I wasn't use to not seeing the photos get filed straight away. I normally would go back and check to see if I had posted it first before attempting to add another one (I get distracted by a cat at times)  > > > > I updated the name on the one I had posted as female to `Male Marble Angle' – I wasn't sure if i could updated the photo captions but played around and fun that I could – thanks. > > > > Due to the current accommodation sizing in the house, I think I would like to see the parents raise the frys (do you call baby angles Frys?) on their own if possible. We currently have a 3foot tank (that is our main tank) and a 18" length tank which is our hospital/quarantine tank. We currently have it set up for the last lot of fish / plants we purchased. We quarantine them for a week, they all looked good however, while transferring the last of the fishes (Clown loaches) to the main tank – thats when I spoted `white spot'. I had a closer look at the tetras we purchased and silver sharks – they had white spots on them also. I ended up losing all my clown loaches (including the ones in the main tank because I had infected the tank too) The main tank is fine now though. > > > > The two tertras that are left look healthy now, its been over a week since the spots have gone. The plants are thriving, roots and stems and leaves coming out everywhere. So was thinking of moving them over to the main tank over the weekend (about 4 days time). Then we will bring in the spare aquarium from the garage and set it up for the Koi and Marble angel fish. > > > > So should we tank the juvies out of the tank (after 4 weeks) leaving the parents by themselves? Would we be able to put the juvies in the main tank with the other fish or would we be looking at getting another fish tank? > > > > Jasmine > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Raymond Wetzel" <sevenspringss@> wrote: > > > > > > I figured as much on the dupes. No problem, that's all part of why we first approve them before they're filed in Photos. I thought I might change the caption on your male Angel to state just that (instead of your believing it's a female. In this way, anyone looking at that pic in the future won't be mislead. > > > > > > Yes, always best to have the pair in a tank of their own. Before doing so, you need to decide if you're going to pull the eggs out and raise them by themselves (which would require another tank) or whether you want to try to have the pair raise them (which would require a larger tank to accomodate all the fish). Please know that, if you decide on having the parents raise them (if they will), you will still need to move the juveniles to a large tank of their own, at about 4 weeks of age, and well before selling size. Otherwise, a minimum tank size for just the pair would be a 20 gallon high, although they'd be more comfortable in a 29. > > > > > > To leave the juveniles with the parents after 4 weeks is to invite the inevitable mutilation of the pair's fins and skin by the juvies as they attempt to eat the slime secretion that the parents produce, in addition to what you'd already be feeding them -- similar to how Discus feed (this is called "contacting" in Cichlids) -- only, Angelfish parents cannot produce nearly as much body mucous. Instead, their fins get descimated, and if allowed to continue, their skin doesn't fair much better. Ray > > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 41385	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 6/25/2009
Subject: Re: Sexing Angelfish, was: Pleco verse Bristlenose

Nope. While many snails are asexual, where they can assume either sex and some can even breed with themselves, Mystery Snails, Apple Snails and some others are sexed so that you need a male and female. This is why they usually are not a nuisance like the other snails which breed like crazy. Of course, one of the so-called nuisance snails, the MTS (Malaysian Trumpet Snail) can breed a lot but generally not as bad as common ponds snails. MTS are also live bearers so they do not lay eggs all over the place like common nuisance snails. MTS do not go after plants like other nuisance snails and will actually burrow into the substrate looking for food so they are good little cleanup snails, especially in sand substrate tanks. They keep the sand turned over so it doesn't develop anaerobic pockets. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Jasmine Sent: Thursday, June 25, 2009 5:51 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Sexing Angelfish, was: Pleco verse Bristlenose I thought these mystery snails were both male and female in one. MMM better do some more reading on this. Thank you for mentioning about placing them in the pond though. We have two locations outside where we keep goldfish. One is a small 3 tier pond, the other is an old spa bath we were given. We ended up placing the goldfish fry in the spa by accident as we didn't realise the plant we took from the tier pond had eggs that were just begining to hatch. Both these areas have/had mystery snails placed in them BUT with our -8 degrees Celsius the other week and a nice layer of ice over the spa -- I don't think the snails would have survived. We were surprised however to see that the baby goldfish did survive. --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@...> wrote: > > You should find a local fish store that wants to sell them and then > you can start breeding them. The main color for Mystery Snails is > "golden" but there are also black, purple is getting popular and I've > heard that blue and green variants have been started. > > You might want to check with your local laws about putting them in > your pond. Some areas have laws against that as they could be > introduced into the ecosystem as a non-native species, although if you > have really cold winters, they may not survive overwintering. > > They need to lay their egg clutches above the water line for the eggs > to have any chance of hatching so if you fill your tank up as high as > possible, that will dissuade them from laying eggs or the eggs will not become viable. > Or, as you see them mating, you could separate the males and females > into separate tanks/pond so that you only have ALL males or ALL > females in your tank. That would put an end to the breeding also. > There is a way to sex them but it's not easy. The easiest way is to > catch them in the act. The Applesnail.net website has LOTS of info on sexing, breeding, etc. > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles > referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically > under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) > > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] > On Behalf Of Jasmine > Sent: Wednesday, June 24, 2009 7:53 AM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Sexing Angelfish, was: Pleco verse > Bristlenose > > Hi Lenny > > Not its the same snails. They are yellowish and grow to about 2". > When we first purchased them, we were told they were hard to breed and > not to worry. Then we found our first lot of eggs you described. Not > really sure what they were, we left them - mmmm - we ended up with > heaps and heaps and heaps of snails. > > I put some out in the outside pond with the gold fish. I place some > in the quarentine tank - we still have one of the original parents. > > From that time on, we kept removing the eggs until the little > blighters decided to go up the outlet pipe and lay eggs up there (a > HUGE) sack of them. > > We kept an eye on that area and kept removing the eggs, then they > found another spot that was hard for us to find. So now we keep an eye there too. > They are sneaky buggers (ops, am I allowed to say that here!) > > We just managed to off load about 30 of them leaving us with about 8 > fully grown ones. Today we saw a tini tiny baby one - about a couple of days old. > There are more eggs somewhere. > > They must really love the tank. > > Jasmine > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" > <GoldLenny@> > wrote: > > > > OK. But now I want to clarify what you are calling "Mystery snails". > > Mystery snails are actually the common name given to a snail that > > grows to around 2" and the smaller cousin to the Apple Snail > > http://www.applesnail.net/ and is not a prolific breeder (in most > > cases) and is actually purchased by folks as pets to go into their > > community tanks as part of a clean-up crew and/or tank mate in > > smaller tanks like 5G tanks, to go with a Betta or other single display fish. > > They sell for a couple of dollars each in many pet/fish stores. > > They are not generally known as nuisance snails. Their populations > > are easy to control since they are egg layers and lay a large > > (teaspoon > > size) clutch of eggs above the waterline so if one does not want > > more Mystery Snails, you can simply scoop the egg clutch out. I > > just want to be sure you are not calling one of the several species > > of nuisance snails by the wrong name. Also, there are other ways to > > control nuisance snails instead of getting clown loaches, including > > one of the smaller dwarf species of loaches that eat snails and > > various ways of > trapping nuisance snails. > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles > > referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, > > alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] > > On Behalf Of Jasmine > > Sent: Wednesday, June 24, 2009 1:51 AM > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Sexing Angelfish, was: Pleco verse > > Bristlenose > > > > We purchased the clown loaches to keep the snail population down. > > Who know that Mystery snails breed so profusely LOL. The clown loaches did a > > fantastic job too. Since getting the angels, i think i've found a new > fish > > that may keep the population of snails down. > > > > I have booked marked the links you have provided, thank you. > > Jasmine > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" > > <GoldLenny@> > > wrote: > > > > > > Not that it is ever good to lose a fish to disease but the Clown > > > Loaches were not a suitable fish for your tanks anyhow. They grow > > > to well over a foot long and should be kept in groups of five or > > > more with three being a minimal amount. Because of this, they > > > would need a 6' long tank, at least, to give them proper > > > swimming/growing > room. > > > > > > For your 36" long tank, you want to keep fish that stay under 6" > > > as full grown adults and if they are FAST swimming fish, then under 4.5" > > > as full grown adults. See my blog article for a simple set of > > > guidelines on stocking a tank so it does not get overstocked. > > > > > > http://goldlenny.blogspot.com/2007/02/new-rules-guidelines-to-replace-1-per. > > > html > > > > > > Start using http://fish.mongabay.com and use the Search Box to > > > look up the common names or scientific names of proposed fish, > > > that you might be thinking about, to see the profiles/care sheets > > > on Mongabay which are very good. They also show tank size > > > recommendations, water parameter preferences, breeding info, > > > feeding info, etc., including an SC section which is for Suggested > > > Companions to help you keep from making a compatibility match problem. > > > > > > You should also quarantine for much longer than a week. Most > > > folks like to go 3-4 weeks at least. > > > > > > I'll let Ray answer the angelfish breeding questions. He's one of > > > the experts out here on that topic! > > > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles > > > referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, > > > alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, > > > Month)

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 41386	From: Jasmine	Date: 6/25/2009
Subject: Re: Flourish products

I've never heard of any of these. What is it? --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, Amber Berglund <amber@...> wrote: > > Does anyone out there use more than just flourish excel for their fish > tanks? > I got several of the products to see if they will make a difference in > my 55 gallon for the potted plants that aren't doing so spiffy. I > haven't tried any of them except the excel yet. > I got: > Flourish > Flourish trace > Flourish potassium > Flourish excel > Flourish iron > > Anything special that anyone wants to point out before I use any of > these products? (besides the flourish excel which I'm already using in > my 55 gallon community tank). > > Amber >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 41387	From: Jasmine	Date: 6/25/2009
Subject: Re: Flourish products

Arh, its plant food stuff. I use Aqua Master Plant Food - but not as often as it suggest, maybe every couple of months give them a dose. But I do leave the light on that assist with plant growth (not sure what that light tube is called though - sorry). --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, Amber Berglund <amber@...> wrote: > > Does anyone out there use more than just flourish excel for their fish > tanks? > I got several of the products to see if they will make a difference in > my 55 gallon for the potted plants that aren't doing so spiffy. I > haven't tried any of them except the excel yet. > I got: > Flourish > Flourish trace > Flourish potassium > Flourish excel > Flourish iron > > Anything special that anyone wants to point out before I use any of > these products? (besides the flourish excel which I'm already using in > my 55 gallon community tank). > > Amber >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 41388	From: bill 1433	Date: 6/25/2009
Subject: Re: Angels

Its ok, I went to the group site and found them.   Thanks Bill --- On Thu, 6/25/09, Jasmine <adonaikam@...> wrote: From: Jasmine <adonaikam@...> Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Angels To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Date: Thursday, June 25, 2009, 5:17 AM Hi Bill The photos are under the 'Jasmine' folder but I'm unsure how to send you a link to them. Can anyone please explain to me how to do this and I can send Bill the link to the photos. Thanks Jasmine --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, bill 1433 <warrenprint@...> wrote: > > > Hi Jasmine, >   > I have been following along here but missed a link?  Can you help?  Where are these pictures you posted or under what folder?  Can you give a link? >   > Bill > > --- On Wed, 6/24/09, Raymond Wetzel <sevenspringss@...> wrote: > > > From: Raymond Wetzel <sevenspringss@...> > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Angels > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Date: Wednesday, June 24, 2009, 8:40 AM > > > Hi Jasmine,  Looks like you guys were really talking it up last night at the same time, and after, I was writing my last post.  As this was one of the messages being generated while I was composing, I'll start here.  Hope your cold is better -- I'm just getting rid of mine, but its been a real rough stretch of days from just before the past weekend, as I was hit with a double-wammy (chest & nasal) cold that left me BEAT.  Much better today, but it's still lingering. > > You might note, by my question on this, that it's no surprise that your Angels WERE bought at different times, as I well knew from your picture of these procedings.  What I couldn't know though, was that the Marble (male) was originally paired up with the Silver (female) Angel before adding these two fish with the pre-obtained Koi (female).  Your description of these procedings makes perfect sense now, and I'd have to guess that the Silver Angel is somewhat smaller and younger than the Koi.  The Koi was a real home-wrecker, huh? LOL.  It's no surprise though, in the least, that the Marble was originally paired up with the Silver, with the Koi (large female) overpowering the Silver to succeed at finally pairing up with the Marble.  I figured the strength of the Koi (and ONLY this fish's strength) had everything to do with the present bonding situation. > > A natural selection behavior I've come to learn, of years of observing this species is that -- In an environment of mixed domestic Angelfish color strains in the presence of the wild type (your Silver Angel is considered as close to wild type as possible), the first choice for pair bonding of ANY of the domestic color strains will ALWAYS and INEVITABLY be with the wild form before ANY OTHER color form present - and that includes a possible choice of a same color form.  The ONLY reason why your Marble is now paired up with the Koi is that the Silver was overpowered by this stronger (and quite determined) female Koi.  Contrary to what some hobbyists prefer to think, Angelfish will select a different mate when the situation is advantageous to them; they do not necessarily pair up for life (unless the hobbyist maintains them as such).    > > This too comes as little surprise, as the second choice of ANY pair bonding in domestic color forms of Angelfish is almost ALWAYS (and just as INEVITABLY) a mate of THE SAME color strain, followed close behind but only after the same color -- a mate having at least some of the genes as does the pairing mate.  I would say "ALAWYS" here too, rather than "almost ALWAYS" as I've never observed any other behavior, but there's usually at least one different situation somewhere.  Actually, these two last pairings are mutual choices of both partners.  In your case, your calico (tri-color, w/black included) Koi has Marble in its genes as Gold Marble is used as one of the fish to develop calico Koi.  > > In the pairing of the wild form in the presence of only domestically developed color strains, ALL of the domestic Angels of opposite sex from the wild form will first be attracted to the wild form before any other choices are considered by them.  It will be the choice of the wild form to accept whichever domestic Angel best suits it out of all potential mates. > > Wish I could fill you in more on the marking (and pimple-like growth) on the Silver Angel.  As there is a growth opposite the pigmentation, I'm more inclined to believe it's more than just a marking too, even though I can't see the raised area well.  The first impression is that it could be a melanoma, but it's too immature at this point for me to diagnose it as such (and hopefully, I'm completely wrong on that).  As long as it doesn't get much worse, I can't see cause to be concerned about it at this point -- as long as it's not bothering the fish.  It would serve little purpose anyway to be concerned since we don't know what we're dealing with.  As it has made an appearance though, you can only expect it to grow over time -- hopefully slowly and not too soon detrimental to the fish's health.  If, by chance, it doesn't grow so much the better.  Keep us posted if you see a noticeable change.  Ray > >   > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Jasmine" <adonaikam@> wrote: > > > > Hi Ray. > > > > I might add â€" I found it extremely hard falling asleep last night â€" was thinking about the angelfishes, then again â€" it could have been the irritant of my coughing keeping me awake (I have a cold at present). > > > > The funny thing is, the Kio has been with us the longest.  We felt bad that it was on its own and have been keeping an eye out for a nice match for it but decided to get two mature angels which looked like they had paired off (which was the marble and silver female) and 4 baby angels to keep them all company. > > > > Once we introduced them into the main tank, the Kio took to the marble and chased the silver female away â€" it was so strange to see..  We have seen the female Kio and female Silver in lip tugger-ward twice. > > > > I don't believe it is just a black dot on the female silver.  The is a slight curvature in the location of the dot but because it keeps getting chased, it doesn't stay still long enough to obtain a good shot.  I'm not going to worry too much about it at present as it doesn't seem to be doing the fish any harm. > > > > Jasmine > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Raymond Wetzel" <sevenspringss@> wrote: > > > > > > Back again Jasmine,  Looks like I was writing my last reply to you as you were send these last 4 pics and this message.  I just now approved your latest pics, then looked them over.  Yep, the "exiled" Silver Angel IS a female, as I first thought.  BTW, did you happen to add this fish after you already had the pair (Marble & Koi)? > > > > > > I had a look at the area you circled on this fish, and if it were just a marking as that triangle-shaped spots appears to be on the one side, I'd say that, that's ALL it is, since today's mixed traits can be expected to show an odd spot here and there at times.  But if it's protruding out the other side, it would seem to be some sort of a growth.  My older monitor does not show the protrusion well enough for me to see it well.  Couldn't tell you what it is, and it would be premature at this stage for me to say it's some kind of internal parasite, but it is odd.  Unless someone else can diagnose it, I wouldn't tell you to try to treat it -- it's just good that it's not bothering the fish.  You might keep an eye on it, but still, without knowing the cause there's little you could do for it if it protrudes more -- unless it manifests itself as a pimple which you could then use a needle for, along with a topical antibiotic.  Ray > > > > > >  > > > > > > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Jasmine" <adonaikam@> wrote: > > > > > > > > Hi Ray > > > > > > > > I've managed to get two shots of the 'exiled' angel (right profile and left profile). > > > > > > > > It certainly doesn't have the same 'hump' on its head as the male you pointed out.  I always thought the hump may have been part of the type of angel it was - silly me. > > > > > > > > Several weeks ago we happen to notice that this same angel has a black pimple like mark - see photo titled 'Exiled angel_03 23.06.09'.  This black mark looks like it is protruding out of the other side of the fish - see 'Exiled angel_02 23.06.09'.  The mark doesn't seem to be causing any problems but I'm sure it has grown slightly since we first noticed it about 2 months ago.  It really reminds me of a black head pimple. > > > > > > > > I can't get a good shot of that area on the angel (as it hides most of the time).  When we get our other tank set up, the eco system all ready and the paired off angels transferred into that tank - I might be able to get a better shot then. > > > > > > > > Thanks again for you help and advice. > > > > Jasmine > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ------------------------------------ > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You.. > ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> > PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- > <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. > > If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the home page.  > > Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com to receive the digest, which includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email > > Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com for the No E-Mail option where you will still be able to read messages on the group and post replies. > > Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com to receive individual e-mails..Yahoo! Groups Links > ------------------------------------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the home page.  Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com to receive the digest, which includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com for the No E-Mail option where you will still be able to read messages on the group and post replies. 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Group: AquaticLife	Message: 41389	From: Jasmine	Date: 6/25/2009
Subject: Re: Angels

Thank you. I'll come back to these sites and have a better read of them. Did you realise that the first hyperlink you provided has "black angels" for sale. Who was it that wanted Black angels? Jasmine --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@...> wrote: > > I'm sure Ray knows of some books but the man he referred someone else to > recently, for buying quality Angelfish, Steve Rybicki at AngelsPlus.com, has > his website with all kinds of GOOD info on it. This page > http://www.angelsplus.com/AvailableAngelfish.htm, on the left, lists the > various Angelfish strains that he sells or has bred and each link has > multiple pictures of the fish. > > Here's a couple of articles, actually Part I and II, each article is four > pages long, about genetics, breeding, etc. > http://www.angelsplus.com/ArticleGenetics.htm > http://www.angelsplus.com/ArticleGenetics2.htm > > He also has a lot of other articles, not only about Angelfish care, > breeding, etc., but about other fish topics as well, including one on > Osmoregulation that I will be adding to my blog article about non-disease > health issues in fish. The stress-related health issues caused by > osmoregulation is a very common problem for fish that many fish keepers do > not realize. > http://www.angelsplus.com/fisharticles.htm > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right > side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On > Behalf Of Jasmine > Sent: Thursday, June 25, 2009 4:10 AM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Angels > > Hi Ray > > I'm glad you are on the mend. I think mine has had a slight twist today – I > started sneezing. All week with I've only had a slight temp, coughing and > headaches. Thankfully, it hasn't travelled to my chest. However, starting > today – I've been sneezing with nasal congestion and my head is starting to > feel heavy. Not a good sign. Thank goodness I still have some paid sick > leave up my sleeve. I do hope you kick your completely very soon. > > I haven't really looked closely to compare the sizes between the Koi and the > Silver – I thought they were about the same size. The Koi is about a year > old, I'm not sure how old the Silver is but I would say it would be younger. > > > What you mentioned about the colour strain of bonding, my fiancé mentioned > that as well – he breeds birds and he had noticed that with his birds as > well. You know, if makes you wonder how they know what they look like to > mate with their own colour strain. We don't put a mirror in the tank so > they know what they look like – it must be inbreeded in them. > > It has been exciting to get to know the type of Angels we have. We have > just been choosing the ones we like the colours of. Is there a book that > provides all the different types of tropical angelfish? > > Jasmine > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Raymond Wetzel" <sevenspringss@> > wrote: > > > > Hi Jasmine, Looks like you guys were really talking it up last night at > the same time, and after, I was writing my last post. As this was one of > the messages being generated while I was composing, I'll start here. Hope > your cold is better -- I'm just getting rid of mine, but its been a real > rough stretch of days from just before the past weekend, as I was hit with a > double-wammy (chest & nasal) cold that left me BEAT. Much better today, but > it's still lingering. > > > > You might note, by my question on this, that it's no surprise that your > Angels WERE bought at different times, as I well knew from your picture of > these procedings. What I couldn't know though, was that the Marble (male) > was originally paired up with the Silver (female) Angel before adding these > two fish with the pre-obtained Koi (female). Your description of these > procedings makes perfect sense now, and I'd have to guess that the Silver > Angel is somewhat smaller and younger than the Koi. The Koi was a real > home-wrecker, huh? LOL. It's no surprise though, in the least, that the > Marble was originally paired up with the Silver, with the Koi (large female) > overpowering the Silver to succeed at finally pairing up with the Marble. I > figured the strength of the Koi (and ONLY this fish's strength) had > everything to do with the present bonding situation. > > > > A natural selection behavior I've come to learn, of years of observing > this species is that -- In an environment of mixed domestic Angelfish color > strains in the presence of the wild type (your Silver Angel is considered as > close to wild type as possible), the first choice for pair bonding of ANY of > the domestic color strains will ALWAYS and INEVITABLY be with the wild form > before ANY OTHER color form present - and that includes a possible choice of > a same color form. The ONLY reason why your Marble is now paired up with > the Koi is that the Silver was overpowered by this stronger (and quite > determined) female Koi. Contrary to what some hobbyists prefer to think, > Angelfish will select a different mate when the situation is advantageous to > them; they do not necessarily pair up for life (unless the hobbyist > maintains them as such). > > > > This too comes as little surprise, as the second choice of ANY pair > bonding in domestic color forms of Angelfish is almost ALWAYS (and just as > INEVITABLY) a mate of THE SAME color strain, followed close behind but only > after the same color -- a mate having at least some of the genes as does the > pairing mate. I would say "ALAWYS" here too, rather than "almost ALWAYS" as > I've never observed any other behavior, but there's usually at least one > different situation somewhere. Actually, these two last pairings are mutual > choices of both partners. In your case, your calico (tri-color, w/black > included) Koi has Marble in its genes as Gold Marble is used as one of the > fish to develop calico Koi. > > > > In the pairing of the wild form in the presence of only domestically > developed color strains, ALL of the domestic Angels of opposite sex from the > wild form will first be attracted to the wild form before any other choices > are considered by them. It will be the choice of the wild form to accept > whichever domestic Angel best suits it out of all potential mates. > > > > Wish I could fill you in more on the marking (and pimple-like growth) > > on the Silver Angel. As there is a growth opposite the pigmentation, > > I'm more inclined to believe it's more than just a marking too, even > > though I can't see the raised area well. The first impression is that > > it could be a melanoma, but it's too immature at this point for me to > > diagnose it as such (and hopefully, I'm completely wrong on that). As > > long as it doesn't get much worse, I can't see cause to be concerned > > about it at this point -- as long as it's not bothering the fish. It > > would serve little purpose anyway to be concerned since we don't know > > what we're dealing with. As it has made an appearance though, you can > > only expect it to grow over time -- hopefully slowly and not too soon > > detrimental to the fish's health. If, by chance, it doesn't grow so > > much the better. Keep us posted if you see a noticeable change. Ray >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 41390	From: bill 1433	Date: 6/25/2009
Subject: Re: Angels

Are you also doing the "Geico" commericals? <large g> ol'bill --- On Thu, 6/25/09, Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@...> wrote: From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@...> Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: Angels To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Date: Thursday, June 25, 2009, 5:51 AM That's the difference between guys and chicks... Amber looked at your pics and mentioned the "pretty Angel's" and I looked at your pics and talked about the UV Filter System and Uncle Wormie's bush-farm pics. ;-)  UGH, UGH!... me man, you woman! Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Jasmine Sent: Thursday, June 25, 2009 4:20 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Angels Thank you Amber --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, Amber Berglund <amber@...> wrote: > > They're in the group folders under "Jasmine" I believe... She has some > very pretty Angel's. > > Amber > > bill 1433 wrote: > > > > > > > > Hi Jasmine, > >  > > I have been following along here but missed a link?  Can you help?  > > Where are these pictures you posted or under what folder? Can you > > give a link? > >  > > Bill > > > > --- On Wed, 6/24/09, Raymond Wetzel <sevenspringss@... > > <mailto:sevenspringss%40wmconnect.com>> wrote: > > > > From: Raymond Wetzel <sevenspringss@... > > <mailto:sevenspringss%40wmconnect.com>> > > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Angels > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > Date: Wednesday, June 24, 2009, 8:40 AM > > > > Hi Jasmine,  Looks like you guys were really talking it up last > > night at the same time, and after, I was writing my last post.  As > > this was one of the messages being generated while I was composing, > > I'll start here.  Hope your cold is better -- I'm just getting rid > > of mine, but its been a real rough stretch of days from just before > > the past weekend, as I was hit with a double-wammy (chest & nasal) > > cold that left me BEAT.  Much better today, but it's still lingering. > > > > You might note, by my question on this, that it's no surprise that > > your Angels WERE bought at different times, as I well knew from your > > picture of these procedings.  What I couldn't know though, was that > > the Marble (male) was originally paired up with the Silver (female) > > Angel before adding these two fish with the pre-obtained Koi > > (female).  Your description of these procedings makes perfect sense > > now, and I'd have to guess that the Silver Angel is somewhat smaller > > and younger than the Koi.  The Koi was a real home-wrecker, huh? LOL. > > It's no surprise though, in the least, that the Marble was > > originally paired up with the Silver, with the Koi (large female) > > overpowering the Silver to succeed at finally pairing up with the > > Marble.  I figured the strength of the Koi (and ONLY this fish's > > strength) had everything to do with the present bonding situation. > > > > A natural selection behavior I've come to learn, of years of > > observing this species is that -- In an environment of mixed > > domestic Angelfish color strains in the presence of the wild type > > (your Silver Angel is considered as close to wild type as possible), > > the first choice for pair bonding of ANY of the domestic color > > strains will ALWAYS and INEVITABLY be with the wild form before ANY > > OTHER color form present - and that includes a possible choice of a > > same color form.  The ONLY reason why your Marble is now paired up > > with the Koi is that the Silver was overpowered by this stronger > > (and quite determined) female Koi.  Contrary to what some hobbyists > > prefer to think, Angelfish will select a different mate when the > > situation is advantageous to them; they do not necessarily pair up for life (unless the hobbyist > > maintains them as such).    > > > > This too comes as little surprise, as the second choice of ANY pair > > bonding in domestic color forms of Angelfish is almost ALWAYS (and > > just as INEVITABLY) a mate of THE SAME color strain, followed close > > behind but only after the same color -- a mate having at least some > > of the genes as does the pairing mate.  I would say "ALAWYS" here > > too, rather than "almost ALWAYS" as I've never observed any other > > behavior, but there's usually at least one different situation somewhere. > > Actually, these two last pairings are mutual choices of both > > partners.  In your case, your calico (tri-color, w/black included) > > Koi has Marble in its genes as Gold Marble is used as one of the > > fish to develop calico Koi. > > > > In the pairing of the wild form in the presence of only domestically > > developed color strains, ALL of the domestic Angels of opposite sex > > from the wild form will first be attracted to the wild form before > > any other choices are considered by them.  It will be the choice of > > the wild form to accept whichever domestic Angel best suits it out > > of all potential mates. > > > > Wish I could fill you in more on the marking (and pimple-like > > growth) on the Silver Angel.  As there is a growth opposite the > > pigmentation, I'm more inclined to believe it's more than just a > > marking too, even though I can't see the raised area well.  The > > first impression is that it could be a melanoma, but it's too > > immature at this point for me to diagnose it as such (and hopefully, > > I'm completely wrong on that).  As long as it doesn't get much > > worse, I can't see cause to be concerned about it at this point -- > > as long as it's not bothering the fish.  It would serve little > > purpose anyway to be concerned since we don't know what we're > > dealing with.  As it has made an appearance though, you can only > > expect it to grow over time -- hopefully slowly and not too soon > > detrimental to the fish's health.  If, by chance, it doesn't grow so > > much the better.  Keep us posted if you see a noticeable change.  > > Ray > > > >  > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>, "Jasmine" <adonaikam@> wrote: > > > > > > Hi Ray. > > > > > > I might add â€" I found it extremely hard falling asleep last night â€" > > was thinking about the angelfishes, then again â€" it could have > > been the irritant of my coughing keeping me awake (I have a cold at present). > > > > > > The funny thing is, the Kio has been with us the longest.  We felt > > bad that it was on its own and have been keeping an eye out for a > > nice match for it but decided to get two mature angels which looked > > like they had paired off (which was the marble and silver female) > > and 4 baby angels to keep them all company. > > > > > > Once we introduced them into the main tank, the Kio took to the > > marble and chased the silver female away â€" it was so strange to see.  > > We have seen the female Kio and female Silver in lip tugger-ward twice. > > > > > > I don't believe it is just a black dot on the female silver.  The > > > is > > a slight curvature in the location of the dot but because it keeps > > getting chased, it doesn't stay still long enough to obtain a good > > shot.  I'm not going to worry too much about it at present as it > > doesn't seem to be doing the fish any harm. > > > > > > Jasmine > > > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>, "Raymond Wetzel" > > <sevenspringss@> wrote: > > > > > > > > Back again Jasmine,  Looks like I was writing my last reply to > > > > you > > as you were send these last 4 pics and this message.  I just now > > approved your latest pics, then looked them over.  Yep, the "exiled" > > Silver Angel IS a female, as I first thought.  BTW, did you happen > > to add this fish after you already had the pair (Marble & Koi)? > > > > > > > > I had a look at the area you circled on this fish, and if it > > > > were > > just a marking as that triangle-shaped spots appears to be on the > > one side, I'd say that, that's ALL it is, since today's mixed traits > > can be expected to show an odd spot here and there at times.  But if > > it's protruding out the other side, it would seem to be some sort of > > a growth.  My older monitor does not show the protrusion well enough > > for me to see it well.  Couldn't tell you what it is, and it would > > be premature at this stage for me to say it's some kind of internal > > parasite, but it is odd.  Unless someone else can diagnose it, I > > wouldn't tell you to try to treat it -- it's just good that it's not > > bothering the fish.  You might keep an eye on it, but still, without > > knowing the cause there's little you could do for it if it protrudes > > more -- unless it manifests itself as a pimple which you could then > > use a needle for, along with a topical antibiotic.  Ray > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>, "Jasmine" <adonaikam@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > Hi Ray > > > > > > > > > > I've managed to get two shots of the 'exiled' angel (right > > profile and left profile). > > > > > > > > > > It certainly doesn't have the same 'hump' on its head as the > > male you pointed out.  I always thought the hump may have been part > > of the type of angel it was - silly me. > > > > > > > > > > Several weeks ago we happen to notice that this same angel has > > > > > a > > black pimple like mark - see photo titled 'Exiled angel_03 23.06.09'.  > > This black mark looks like it is protruding out of the other side of > > the fish - see 'Exiled angel_02 23.06.09'.  The mark doesn't seem to > > be causing any problems but I'm sure it has grown slightly since we > > first noticed it about 2 months ago.  It really reminds me of a > > black head pimple. > > > > > > > > > > I can't get a good shot of that area on the angel (as it hides > > most of the time).  When we get our other tank set up, the eco > > system all ready and the paired off angels transferred into that > > tank - I might be able to get a better shot then. > > > > > > > > > > Thanks again for you help and advice. > > > > > Jasmine ------------------------------------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the home page.  Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com to receive the digest, which includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com for the No E-Mail option where you will still be able to read messages on the group and post replies. Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com to receive individual e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 41391	From: Jasmine	Date: 6/25/2009
Subject: Re: Angels

I do have a proper filter system in place. This is just to kill the bacteria - here is a bit of a blur about the UV purifier. The proper name is "UView Aquarium purifier" it polishes water with the power of the sun. • Crystal clear water • No more algae or bacteria in water • Natural cleansing, chemical free • Healthier water, healthier fish • Freshwater or marine environments • For aquariums up to 200 litres. I still have the box and it reads – Our unique purifier uses low wattage UV radiation to kill all water borne algae, bacteria and pathogens passing through the filter. Used alongside your regular filter it will give you continuous clean, crystal clear water. This also improves fish health and well being and aids the introduction of new fish. *some persistent algae may still grow on the tank, plants and ornaments and may need to be wiped off occasionally. I've found one site that has a mention (not much of a mention though) http://www.aquaticlifeaquariums.com.au/index1.html What is does is, it take in the tank water through a sponge (that requires cleaning about every 3 weeks). The water passes through UV light which destroys bacteria and passes filtration water back into the tank ever so gently. --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@...> wrote: > > Go to the main group's website photo album section, http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife/photos. Once there, you can sort the album folders in many ways. If referring to recently uploaded photos, the simplest way, which I use, is on the top right, click the link for "Last Modified" which will sort the albums by the most recently modified. Then click on the album by name if there are more than one that was recently modified. The link to the Jasmine album is http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife/photos/album/114176089/pic/list > > On a side note, I checked out your other photos and I see your UV Filtration Rod (and Uncle Wormie's pics...LOL), as you referred to it in this or another thread. I'm not sure that "UV Filtration Rod" would be the proper term for that piece of equipment. That appears to be an in-tank UV filter system with it's own pump (square section with suction cups) and the gray oval section, with a wire going into the top is likely the UV light housing. I see what looks to be an intake on one side of that, with some filter padding to keep big stuff out of it, and then the top inverted-L tube is the discharge tube... right? Since it looks like it takes in water that would be coming across the back of the tank, I would point the inverted-L discharge tube in the opposite direction to create a circular water flow. I'm sure you have other filtration/circulation as well so maybe those other sources gives you adequate flow to make sure ALL water eventually gets sucked into the UV filter. I actually kind of like that system as it's compact and portable so it can be moved from tank to tank with ease and just suction cups onto the glass. Do you have a manufacturers name and/or model number? Oh yeah.. make sure you clean that filter padding on the intake on a regular basis to ensure a proper water flow rate. > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) > > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Jasmine > Sent: Thursday, June 25, 2009 4:18 AM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Angels > > Hi Bill > > The photos are under the 'Jasmine' folder but I'm unsure how to send you a link to them. > > Can anyone please explain to me how to do this and I can send Bill the link to the photos. > > Thanks > > Jasmine > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, bill 1433 <warrenprint@> wrote: > > > > > > Hi Jasmine, > >  > > I have been following along here but missed a link? Can you help? Where are these pictures you posted or under what folder? Can you give a link? > >  > > Bill > > > > --- On Wed, 6/24/09, Raymond Wetzel <sevenspringss@> wrote: > > > > > > From: Raymond Wetzel <sevenspringss@> > > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Angels > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > Date: Wednesday, June 24, 2009, 8:40 AM > > > > > > Hi Jasmine, Looks like you guys were really talking it up last night at the same time, and after, I was writing my last post. As this was one of the messages being generated while I was composing, I'll start here. Hope your cold is better -- I'm just getting rid of mine, but its been a real rough stretch of days from just before the past weekend, as I was hit with a double-wammy (chest & nasal) cold that left me BEAT. Much better today, but it's still lingering. > > > > You might note, by my question on this, that it's no surprise that your Angels WERE bought at different times, as I well knew from your picture of these procedings. What I couldn't know though, was that the Marble (male) was originally paired up with the Silver (female) Angel before adding these two fish with the pre-obtained Koi (female). Your description of these procedings makes perfect sense now, and I'd have to guess that the Silver Angel is somewhat smaller and younger than the Koi. The Koi was a real home-wrecker, huh? LOL. It's no surprise though, in the least, that the Marble was originally paired up with the Silver, with the Koi (large female) overpowering the Silver to succeed at finally pairing up with the Marble. I figured the strength of the Koi (and ONLY this fish's strength) had everything to do with the present bonding situation. > > > > A natural selection behavior I've come to learn, of years of observing > > this species is that -- In an environment of mixed domestic Angelfish > > color strains in the presence of the wild type (your Silver Angel is > > considered as close to wild type as possible), the first choice for > > pair bonding of ANY of the domestic color strains will ALWAYS and > > INEVITABLY be with the wild form before ANY OTHER color form present - > > and that includes a possible choice of a same color form. The ONLY > > reason why your Marble is now paired up with the Koi is that the > > Silver was overpowered by this stronger (and quite determined) female > > Koi. Contrary to what some hobbyists prefer to think, Angelfish will > > select a different mate when the situation is advantageous to them; > > they do not necessarily pair up for life (unless the hobbyist > > maintains them as such).  > > > > This too comes as little surprise, as the second choice of ANY pair > > bonding in domestic color forms of Angelfish is almost ALWAYS (and > > just as INEVITABLY) a mate of THE SAME color strain, followed close > > behind but only after the same color -- a mate having at least some of > > the genes as does the pairing mate. I would say "ALAWYS" here too, > > rather than "almost ALWAYS" as I've never observed any other behavior, > > but there's usually at least one different situation somewhere. > > Actually, these two last pairings are mutual choices of both > > partners. In your case, your calico (tri-color, w/black included) > > Koi has Marble in its genes as Gold Marble is used as one of the fish > > to develop calico Koi. > > > > In the pairing of the wild form in the presence of only domestically developed color strains, ALL of the domestic Angels of opposite sex from the wild form will first be attracted to the wild form before any other choices are considered by them. It will be the choice of the wild form to accept whichever domestic Angel best suits it out of all potential mates. > > > > Wish I could fill you in more on the marking (and pimple-like growth) > > on the Silver Angel. As there is a growth opposite the pigmentation, > > I'm more inclined to believe it's more than just a marking too, even > > though I can't see the raised area well. The first impression is > > that it could be a melanoma, but it's too immature at this point for > > me to diagnose it as such (and hopefully, I'm completely wrong on > > that). As long as it doesn't get much worse, I can't see cause to be > > concerned about it at this point -- as long as it's not bothering the > > fish. It would serve little purpose anyway to be concerned since we > > don't know what we're dealing with. As it has made an appearance > > though, you can only expect it to grow over time -- hopefully slowly > > and not too soon detrimental to the fish's health. If, by chance, it > > doesn't grow so much the better. Keep us posted if you see a > > noticeable change. Ray > > > >  > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Jasmine" <adonaikam@> wrote: > > > > > > Hi Ray. > > > > > > I might add â€" I found it extremely hard falling asleep last night â€" was thinking about the angelfishes, then again â€" it could have been the irritant of my coughing keeping me awake (I have a cold at present). > > > > > > The funny thing is, the Kio has been with us the longest. We felt bad that it was on its own and have been keeping an eye out for a nice match for it but decided to get two mature angels which looked like they had paired off (which was the marble and silver female) and 4 baby angels to keep them all company. > > > > > > Once we introduced them into the main tank, the Kio took to the marble and chased the silver female away â€" it was so strange to see. We have seen the female Kio and female Silver in lip tugger-ward twice. > > > > > > I don't believe it is just a black dot on the female silver. The is a slight curvature in the location of the dot but because it keeps getting chased, it doesn't stay still long enough to obtain a good shot. I'm not going to worry too much about it at present as it doesn't seem to be doing the fish any harm. > > > > > > Jasmine > > > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Raymond Wetzel" <sevenspringss@> wrote: > > > > > > > > Back again Jasmine, Looks like I was writing my last reply to you as you were send these last 4 pics and this message. I just now approved your latest pics, then looked them over. Yep, the "exiled" Silver Angel IS a female, as I first thought. BTW, did you happen to add this fish after you already had the pair (Marble & Koi)? > > > > > > > > I had a look at the area you circled on this fish, and if it were > > > > just a marking as that triangle-shaped spots appears to be on the > > > > one side, I'd say that, that's ALL it is, since today's mixed > > > > traits can be expected to show an odd spot here and there at > > > > times. But if it's protruding out the other side, it would seem > > > > to be some sort of a growth. My older monitor does not show the > > > > protrusion well enough for me to see it well. Couldn't tell you > > > > what it is, and it would be premature at this stage for me to say > > > > it's some kind of internal parasite, but it is odd. Unless > > > > someone else can diagnose it, I wouldn't tell you to try to treat > > > > it -- it's just good that it's not bothering the fish. You might > > > > keep an eye on it, but still, without knowing the cause there's > > > > little you could do for it if it protrudes more -- unless it > > > > manifests itself as a pimple which you could then use a needle > > > > for, along with a topical antibiotic. Ray > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Jasmine" <adonaikam@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > Hi Ray > > > > > > > > > > I've managed to get two shots of the 'exiled' angel (right profile and left profile). > > > > > > > > > > It certainly doesn't have the same 'hump' on its head as the male you pointed out. I always thought the hump may have been part of the type of angel it was - silly me. > > > > > > > > > > Several weeks ago we happen to notice that this same angel has a black pimple like mark - see photo titled 'Exiled angel_03 23.06.09'. This black mark looks like it is protruding out of the other side of the fish - see 'Exiled angel_02 23.06.09'. The mark doesn't seem to be causing any problems but I'm sure it has grown slightly since we first noticed it about 2 months ago. It really reminds me of a black head pimple. > > > > > > > > > > I can't get a good shot of that area on the angel (as it hides most of the time). When we get our other tank set up, the eco system all ready and the paired off angels transferred into that tank - I might be able to get a better shot then. > > > > > > > > > > Thanks again for you help and advice. > > > > > Jasmine >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 41392	From: Raymond Wetzel	Date: 6/25/2009
Subject: Re: Angels Please help???

Hi Amber, Going with everything I read of Jo's postings on the scenario of this whole situation, yes, I can only conclude with a good deal of certainty that here fish are dying as a result of this infection. This terrible disease was prevalent some 15 to 20 years ago, first eminating, then spreading friom the Far East. While I've lived through this period and have experienced this whole sequence of events day to day of the hobby being so adversely affected by this disease, this is not my reason for my coming to this conclusion. Devastating as it was, I am not an alarmist. Others here, who may never have heard of this disease (or who may have, but think this is now past history), cannot know that this disease still survives today in Angelfish from Angelfish stocks still being produced in those areas (Asia & Florida) where the disease originated and then was most prevalent. This disease was never conquered. The Far Eastern Angelfish breeders were never completely wiped out (even though extremely affected by hugh losses) to the point that they started back completely fresh with completely all new stock. The Angelfish stock that they were left with, that finally survived the onslaught due to their immunity system finally coping with this disease is the same stock they continued with -- now a necessarily stronger breeder stock for them and the Florida fish farmers, in that they have a higher immune system to be able to deal with this virus that co-exists with them in their systems. However, even though the juveniles from this stock (possibly the 4th or 5th generation by now, from when this first started) are expose to this virus early on in their lives -- their immune systems having to have built up against this disease as they grew to selling size -- the stress of shipping when combined with the constant battle of their immune systems having to deal with this ever-present virus in their systems (due to its ongoing presence in their environment) is just too much for them to endure. The influences of both stresses soon take their toll, manifested as losses within 6 or 7 days for most of the stock that were subjected to the stress of shipping. Any other Angels that seemingly were not quite as affected/stressed by shipping immediately may live a short while later, but by this time the virus is now overpowering their immune system to the point of eventually (often within the month) killing them. Obviously, introducing any Angels in with these infected fish during this time of them living in limbo is to be subjecting these new Angels to a disease they've never seen and have no defence at all for, with the inevitable loss of them as well. The infected environment is just as deadly to any new Angels, even without the presence of infected fish, until this environment is disinfected. This disease still persists today -- it has never been irradiacated and is an unfortunate situation for an unsuspecting hobbyist who has no previous knowledge of it, when they buy such fish from those sources (like Walmart) which persist in selling them only because these fish are the lowest price their management can find to contract with. It's a very dangerous situation. Now, getting back to these other points you've brought up, which need addressing. While, as \\Steve// says, ideally no ammonia should be permitted to exist, and while Jo's ammonia level of 1.0 ppm does certainly appear to be the direct result of an uncycled tank (since ammonia has shown to build up in her tank from 0.0 ppm to 1.0 ppm, yet is not being converted to nitrite) still, with Jo's ph at between 6.5 (original post) and 6.6 (follow-up post) any and all Ammonia would be in the form or relatively harmless Ammonium -- not affecting the Angelfish detrimentally in the least -- so we can rule this out, if that's what you need done. I cannot condone the use of buffers to lower the pH either, and again go right along with \\Steve// on this. Not only as it's not at all needed (especially in this situation of maintaining Angelfish) but can lead to serious consequences such as unstable pH levels and/or even possible pH crashes as \\Steve// points out. Still, I see no evidence of Jo having to add any additional amounts of pH buffer between PWC's because of the buffer being exhausted, nor have I seen any high pH level readings, although there still may have been some between PWC's, which may not have been tested for. Likewise, I have fortunately not seen evidence of a pH crash, nor any possible cause for pH shock as a result of such a crash. Jo's methods of acclimating may leave more to be desired even though the concept is correct as, unless she has not given a full description, this tank water introduction to the bucket containing the fish does seem to be too abbreviated. Full acclimation requires more than one or two cups of new water over a period of 15 minutes (as I seem to perceive from her post), but it's possible she may just not have gone into the repetition of this procedure. In all, with taking into consideration all possible negative points you've brought up and needed to have addressed, or that \\Steve// or I could think of to be ruled out, I cannot see where any of these other possibilities could enter into consideration -- especially when realizing that these deaths were not a one-time occurance, but have repeatedly happened with each numerous addition of new Angelfish in the many attempts to introduce them to her tank. One might be able to say that in isolated incidences, that a certain batch of Angelfish may have been pH-shocked, or that another batch of Angelfish may have been inadvertantly subjected to lethal levels of ammonia at some point -- which appears quite remote, even if I'm reaching for straws -- but when repeated batches of Angelfish die for no other apparent reason there is a pattern that develops which to me has no other answer than this Virus by what is occurring -- when looking at all other details involved in this picture. I've seen it too many times to not ignore it, nor mistake it for anything else. Ray --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, Amber Berglund <amber@...> wrote: > > Ray are you sure that his fish are dying to this infection rather than > dying from ammonia poisoning from an uncycled tank? Not to mention he > used a pH adjusting buffer to lower his pH... > This might just be a lack of experience too I would think it's possible > at least. We should at least rule those out before rushing into thinking > it's a serious problem right from the bat (the Angelfish infection). > > Amber > > Raymond Wetzel wrote: > > > > > > By your post, it appears that you've taken the time to read over my > > message on the topic, so you could finally understand it -- which I > > appreciate your doing, as it will only benefit yourself. Your two > > remaining Angelfish stand a better chance of dying a premature death, > > and that death may come even sooner than later. I have seen other > > hobbyists maintaining a few remnant Angels from such origins after the > > rest of the original stocks of them had perished, only to pass on > > within the following month (or two, at the latest). You may try to > > return these two Angels for store credit, if they'll allow it, but > > otherwise, you'd need to keep only these two until something happens > > to them. > > > > To add any Angelfish from other sources to these two Angelfish, would > > be to subject them to an infection that they have no immunity for, > > with the inevitable results of their dying from this, and quite fast. > > If you want more Angels, and if you want healthy Angels, there is no > > other choice than to put them in a clean, disinfected tank that you're > > sure does not contain any disease -- which requires that these two > > Angelfish no longer inhabit this tank, one way or another. > > > > IF there is a better way (and I know of no other way), I would be more > > than pleased to tell you. As for knowing that a fish will be okay, I > > can only tell you this -- that I, nor anyone else, cannot say with > > 100% certainty that your two remaining Angelfish are not okay -- it's > > impossible for me to be able to do that from where I am (not within > > reach of your fish) or without the benefit of a slide smear of this > > fish's waste to evaluate under the microscope. But ALL things you've > > related about these fish and their deceased siblings, including their > > source, the suddenness of their demise and the repetition of these > > same circumstances spells out for me with enough certainty with all > > I've experienced and learned of this very disease, that this is indeed > > the dreaded fatal pathogen that has plagued Angelfish ongoing from a > > quarter century ago. > > > > I could choose to see your Angelfish loses as just the chance results > > of poorer than required water conditions combined with your possible > > inexperience with them and the luck of the draw along with the > > inevitableness of young Angels dying en-mass for unexplained reasons > > not unrelated to your general lack of aquarium knowledge at this stage > > of the game -- as some here may be suggesting -- but to do so would be > > to go against everything I've learned about Angelfish in 62 years of > > working with them, and living through the horrid period of decimation > > of these fish through the spread of this Virus. > > > > I've seen many, many cases of this virus striking Angelfish and have > > known many Angelfish breeders who were effected by the devastation of > > it and the experiences they've gone through during the peak period > > when this Virus was at its worst. > > > > AND . . . > > > > I have seen in TODAY's WORLD, the EXACT same thing as you are > > describing happening to you, of Angelfish being sold by Walmart (and > > others) which are infected by this virus and which have been dropping > > otherwise unexplainedly like flies -- INCLUDING having one or two fish > > temporarily survive this onslault only to died within the following > > month. I DO NOT think this is all coincidental. My brother (who had > > yet to learn of this disease) experienced the VERY things with young > > Angelfish he recently bought from Walmart a couple of months ago, > > amost word for word. In his case, his lone surviving Angel lasted > > another 3 weeks after the first ones died -- and he knows about > > keeping fish properly. Many of my customers (fish store owners who > > purchase my Angelfish) have told me of the quality of Angelfish (and > > the Virus they still carry) they've bought in the recent past from > > both Florida and directly from the Far East that just fold up on them > > within a week's time, often resulting in complete losses -- the > > unaccounted for ones having already been sold prior to the end of the > > week. These sources and the Angelfish Virus they promote through > > selling infected fish are still notorious for spreading this disease > > with the help of unknowing dealers and hobbyists even today. > > > > Of course, you do not need to believe me, but then it would be folly > > to continue in the manner you're attempting to add Angelfish to your > > tank in hopes they'll survive. For all we know though, without having > > your two Angelfish analyzed, they may be the healthiest Angels on > > earth -- But I wouldn't want to bet the farm on it! > > > > I suggested to you what needs to be done to succeed. You may follow > > this advice, or you may ignore it -- that's your decision. When buying > > from a different source, a reputable breeder who has reliably supplied > > quality disease-free Angelfish for many years simply cannot afford to > > risk selling diseased Angelfish, and still have his business and > > reputation survive. IF contemplating buying from such a known and > > reputable dealer, you need to make sure whom you are dealing with. > > There are many reputable Angelfish breeders in existance, but with > > your not having the experience to know which are the better ones, you > > may not know yet who to buy from with confidence. I WILL tell you that > > you can't expect to pay Walmart prices and still get good fish. A lot > > of work goes into raising these Angelfish and as a result these > > breeders will (need) to charge more, but a good breeder will be fair > > -- he does not need to price-gouge. If you're still following up on > > this, and need further advise, there are a number of people here who > > can best assist you with recommending breeders of quality Angels. I > > can start by wholeheartedly recommending Steve Rybicki of Angels Plus > > as one whom I can vouch for selling disease-free Angelfish; Steve's > > been in the business for at least 25 years. Ray > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>, Joellen & Kevin Analla > > <anallafamily.2001@> wrote: > > > > > > So basically what your saying is that all fish in tank (2Angels) > > must die then i need to disinfect all equipment then start all over > > buying from a different source but theres no garanteen that even a > > differant source could still get infected in that case i would have to > > repeat process agian......Really isnt there a better way, or even a > > way of knowing that fish will be ok . > > > > > > --- On Wed, 6/24/09, Raymond Wetzel <sevenspringss@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > From: Raymond Wetzel <sevenspringss@> > > > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Angels Please help??? > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > Date: Wednesday, June 24, 2009, 1:33 AM > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Hello Jo, So sorry you are running into this frustrating experience > > in trying to keep Angelfish, when the species is not difficult to > > maintain. Ordinarily, we would ask just what you meant (and will still > > do this) when you say that your water is all testing okay. When giving > > us any of your data concerning your water parameters, we prefer to > > have number to be evaluate your circumstances, and the actual test > > results in ppm (parts per million) best reflect your actual > > conditions. If you could give us your test results for pH, ammonia, > > nitrite and even nitrate, it could be a great help. If you can provide > > results for temporary hardness (KH) and total/general hardness (GH), > > this may be of further assistance to us -- the more information, the > > better. BUT, in this particular case, I do not believe it's your water > > quality that's at fault, even though we need to rule that out. > > > > > > Most unfortunately, new prospective Angelfish hobbyists will run > > into this situation when buying from retailers who prefer obtaining > > their Angelfish stocks indiscriminantly, possibly in an effort to save > > money or perhaps just for the convenience. However, in buying in > > essence what can be established as inferior stock, I fail to see what > > they think they gain. Unfortunately too, the customer (you) is too > > often unsuspecting of this possibility and blame the deaths of these > > fish on themselves, when in truth it's the poor stock itself that > > these outlets continue to retail -- despite the many losses they > > themselves have with each re-stocking. > > > > > > These retailers know that they will not be alienating their > > customers, as these customers are completely unaware that this stock > > is inferior, and in their quest to maintain this beautiful species, > > they repeatedly buy new stock in hopes they can keep them alive. Some > > of the larger chain stores (and some smaller shops) operate in this > > manner, Walmart having been one of them until they gave up selling > > tropical fish; these stores continuing to buy their Angels only from > > preferred sources which may include a headquarter- -designated > > distributor, a Florida fish farm, a local wholesaler that buys from > > either Florida or the Far East, or a Far East breeding establishment- > > -exporter -- rather than a reputable domestic breeder. > > > > > > Now, getting to the root of this practice and its problem. Going > > back some 15 years or slightly more, there was a major outbreak of a > > horrific Angelfish Virus disease originating in the Far East, > > decimating Angelfish stocks there as well as in this country when it > > was introduced here through imports of that stock into this country. > > Many domestic Angelfish breeders in this country were wiped out or at > > least partially effected, not suspecting this problem, and mixed that > > stock with theirs. The problem didn't stop there in this country as a > > good number of the Florida fish farmers also introduced this diseased > > Asian stock of Angelfish to their hatcheries in efforts to strengthen > > their own stocks with "new blood," not yet knowing the consequences > > they would have to pay. > > > > > > Gradually, this disease was finally contained although never > > completely cured. Those Asian stocks that survived were strengthened > > by natural selection to be able to remain viable while still carrying > > th Virus as a latent disease always present but under control of these > > latest Angelfish's adapted immune systems. This same adaptation of the > > Angelfish's immune system to contain this Virus as of late, also > > emerged from those Florida fish farm's stocks which were similarly > > effected. > > > > > > As a result, most any Angelfish derived today from either those > > effected Florida fish farms or those Far Eastern hatchery/exporters > > carry this Virus as a weaker (as controlled now by these Angels' new > > but limited immunity), yet still viable disease still capable of > > overtaking the Angelfish as soon as receieves enough stress. This > > shared (but not mutually beneficial where the fish is concerned) > > existance is called "symbiosis," and is seen also in many Cichlids -- > > including Angelfish -- as Hexamita, where this protozoan resides in a > > latent condition in the fish's intestine, only to overtake the fish > > when the fish experiences sufficient stress for it to do so. > > > > > > So, now when these Angelfish (carrying this disease) reach your > > local fish store, they look fine at first and appear most healthy. > > However, the stress of shipping soon takes its toll over the next week > > as the disease now devastates these stressed and weakened fish. These > > fish are not expected to last much more than an average of 6 or 7 days > > as a result of what happens with them. Likewise, many (most?) of the > > same fish in these stores that stock them soon die also (they are > > KNOWN to fold up), but the storekeeper has still made his profit and > > has "satisfied" his customers, which causes them to keep coming back > > to those stores. > > > > > > If any of this rings a bell for you, you may finally be > > understanding what's happening with your Angelfish. A few, such as the > > two you have that survived so far will live for an undetermined period > > of time, but their days are still numbered (could live for another few > > weeks or so). If you still want to keep Angelfish, you cannot continue > > to buy them from this present source as they'll meet the same fate, > > nor can you add any other Angelfish to this tank from a different > > source as they'll become infected. I really hate to have to suggest > > this, and I don't know if you have any other species of fish presently > > in this tank, but before you add any more Angels -- and they MUST be > > from a reputable domestic breeder -- this tank and all its equipment > > must be disinfected after these two remaining Angels secumb. I hope > > this whole scenario of events as pertains to Angelfish has been at > > least enlightening for you, and will serve to assist you in the future > > (we'll > > > still be here to help). I regret that since you most probably have > > introduced disease-carrying Angelfish unknowingly, that you'll have a > > long road ahead of you in maintaining your goal, but at least now you > > know what to expect. Please keep us posted, Ray > > > > > > --- In AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com, "anallafamily. 2001" > > <anallafamily. 2001@> wrote: > > > > > > > > I'm new to the group so just let me know if I say or do something > > not right...... > > > > My Question.... I wanted to start up an angel tank so I have a > > 55gal set up.. I keep buying 5 angels at a time and they keep dying > > slowly but surely.. I think altogether I have bought 16 Angels and I > > have managed to get 2 to live for at least 6 days now. I have plenty > > of filtration and water flow, I have ph at 6.5 and water is all > > testing ok... So what am I doing wrong? and should I go get more since > > I got 2 to live uhhhhhh What do I do I feel like I want to give up but > > I really thought they were such a beautiful fish. > > > > Please Help Jo.. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > > > > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 41393	From: Joellen & Kevin Analla	Date: 6/25/2009
Subject: Re: Angels Please help???

Well as I know there isno exact amount of time for a tank to cycle it has been set up for at least 2 mo. and before i put angels in it i tested amonia and it was ok. The amonia levels have raised only since the fish have been dieing. Well yesterday i did a partial water change to try and lower amonia levels. I have yet to test it this morning to see if it helped. Jo --- On Thu, 6/25/09, Raymond Wetzel <sevenspringss@...> wrote: From: Raymond Wetzel <sevenspringss@...> Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Angels Please help??? To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Date: Thursday, June 25, 2009, 9:59 AM Hi Amber, Going with everything I read of Jo's postings on the scenario of this whole situation, yes, I can only conclude with a good deal of certainty that here fish are dying as a result of this infection. This terrible disease was prevalent some 15 to 20 years ago, first eminating, then spreading friom the Far East. While I've lived through this period and have experienced this whole sequence of events day to day of the hobby being so adversely affected by this disease, this is not my reason for my coming to this conclusion. Devastating as it was, I am not an alarmist. Others here, who may never have heard of this disease (or who may have, but think this is now past history), cannot know that this disease still survives today in Angelfish from Angelfish stocks still being produced in those areas (Asia & Florida) where the disease originated and then was most prevalent. This disease was never conquered. The Far Eastern Angelfish breeders were never completely wiped out (even though extremely affected by hugh losses) to the point that they started back completely fresh with completely all new stock. The Angelfish stock that they were left with, that finally survived the onslaught due to their immunity system finally coping with this disease is the same stock they continued with -- now a necessarily stronger breeder stock for them and the Florida fish farmers, in that they have a higher immune system to be able to deal with this virus that co-exists with them in their systems. However, even though the juveniles from this stock (possibly the 4th or 5th generation by now, from when this first started) are expose to this virus early on in their lives -- their immune systems having to have built up against this disease as they grew to selling size -- the stress of shipping when combined with the constant battle of their immune systems having to deal with this ever-present virus in their systems (due to its ongoing presence in their environment) is just too much for them to endure. The influences of both stresses soon take their toll, manifested as losses within 6 or 7 days for most of the stock that were subjected to the stress of shipping. Any other Angels that seemingly were not quite as affected/stressed by shipping immediately may live a short while later, but by this time the virus is now overpowering their immune system to the point of eventually (often within the month) killing them. Obviously, introducing any Angels in with these infected fish during this time of them living in limbo is to be subjecting these new Angels to a disease they've never seen and have no defence at all for, with the inevitable loss of them as well. The infected environment is just as deadly to any new Angels, even without the presence of infected fish, until this environment is disinfected. This disease still persists today -- it has never been irradiacated and is an unfortunate situation for an unsuspecting hobbyist who has no previous knowledge of it, when they buy such fish from those sources (like Walmart) which persist in selling them only because these fish are the lowest price their management can find to contract with. It's a very dangerous situation. Now, getting back to these other points you've brought up, which need addressing. While, as \\Steve// says, ideally no ammonia should be permitted to exist, and while Jo's ammonia level of 1.0 ppm does certainly appear to be the direct result of an uncycled tank (since ammonia has shown to build up in her tank from 0.0 ppm to 1.0 ppm, yet is not being converted to nitrite) still, with Jo's ph at between 6.5 (original post) and 6.6 (follow-up post) any and all Ammonia would be in the form or relatively harmless Ammonium -- not affecting the Angelfish detrimentally in the least -- so we can rule this out, if that's what you need done. I cannot condone the use of buffers to lower the pH either, and again go right along with \\Steve// on this. Not only as it's not at all needed (especially in this situation of maintaining Angelfish) but can lead to serious consequences such as unstable pH levels and/or even possible pH crashes as \\Steve// points out. Still, I see no evidence of Jo having to add any additional amounts of pH buffer between PWC's because of the buffer being exhausted, nor have I seen any high pH level readings, although there still may have been some between PWC's, which may not have been tested for. Likewise, I have fortunately not seen evidence of a pH crash, nor any possible cause for pH shock as a result of such a crash. Jo's methods of acclimating may leave more to be desired even though the concept is correct as, unless she has not given a full description, this tank water introduction to the bucket containing the fish does seem to be too abbreviated. Full acclimation requires more than one or two cups of new water over a period of 15 minutes (as I seem to perceive from her post), but it's possible she may just not have gone into the repetition of this procedure. In all, with taking into consideration all possible negative points you've brought up and needed to have addressed, or that \\Steve// or I could think of to be ruled out, I cannot see where any of these other possibilities could enter into consideration -- especially when realizing that these deaths were not a one-time occurance, but have repeatedly happened with each numerous addition of new Angelfish in the many attempts to introduce them to her tank. One might be able to say that in isolated incidences, that a certain batch of Angelfish may have been pH-shocked, or that another batch of Angelfish may have been inadvertantly subjected to lethal levels of ammonia at some point -- which appears quite remote, even if I'm reaching for straws -- but when repeated batches of Angelfish die for no other apparent reason there is a pattern that develops which to me has no other answer than this Virus by what is occurring -- when looking at all other details involved in this picture. I've seen it too many times to not ignore it, nor mistake it for anything else. Ray --- In AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com, Amber Berglund <amber@...> wrote: > > Ray are you sure that his fish are dying to this infection rather than > dying from ammonia poisoning from an uncycled tank? Not to mention he > used a pH adjusting buffer to lower his pH... > This might just be a lack of experience too I would think it's possible > at least. We should at least rule those out before rushing into thinking > it's a serious problem right from the bat (the Angelfish infection). > > Amber > > Raymond Wetzel wrote: > > > > > > By your post, it appears that you've taken the time to read over my > > message on the topic, so you could finally understand it -- which I > > appreciate your doing, as it will only benefit yourself. Your two > > remaining Angelfish stand a better chance of dying a premature death, > > and that death may come even sooner than later. I have seen other > > hobbyists maintaining a few remnant Angels from such origins after the > > rest of the original stocks of them had perished, only to pass on > > within the following month (or two, at the latest). You may try to > > return these two Angels for store credit, if they'll allow it, but > > otherwise, you'd need to keep only these two until something happens > > to them. > > > > To add any Angelfish from other sources to these two Angelfish, would > > be to subject them to an infection that they have no immunity for, > > with the inevitable results of their dying from this, and quite fast. > > If you want more Angels, and if you want healthy Angels, there is no > > other choice than to put them in a clean, disinfected tank that you're > > sure does not contain any disease -- which requires that these two > > Angelfish no longer inhabit this tank, one way or another. > > > > IF there is a better way (and I know of no other way), I would be more > > than pleased to tell you. As for knowing that a fish will be okay, I > > can only tell you this -- that I, nor anyone else, cannot say with > > 100% certainty that your two remaining Angelfish are not okay -- it's > > impossible for me to be able to do that from where I am (not within > > reach of your fish) or without the benefit of a slide smear of this > > fish's waste to evaluate under the microscope. But ALL things you've > > related about these fish and their deceased siblings, including their > > source, the suddenness of their demise and the repetition of these > > same circumstances spells out for me with enough certainty with all > > I've experienced and learned of this very disease, that this is indeed > > the dreaded fatal pathogen that has plagued Angelfish ongoing from a > > quarter century ago. > > > > I could choose to see your Angelfish loses as just the chance results > > of poorer than required water conditions combined with your possible > > inexperience with them and the luck of the draw along with the > > inevitableness of young Angels dying en-mass for unexplained reasons > > not unrelated to your general lack of aquarium knowledge at this stage > > of the game -- as some here may be suggesting -- but to do so would be > > to go against everything I've learned about Angelfish in 62 years of > > working with them, and living through the horrid period of decimation > > of these fish through the spread of this Virus. > > > > I've seen many, many cases of this virus striking Angelfish and have > > known many Angelfish breeders who were effected by the devastation of > > it and the experiences they've gone through during the peak period > > when this Virus was at its worst. > > > > AND . . . > > > > I have seen in TODAY's WORLD, the EXACT same thing as you are > > describing happening to you, of Angelfish being sold by Walmart (and > > others) which are infected by this virus and which have been dropping > > otherwise unexplainedly like flies -- INCLUDING having one or two fish > > temporarily survive this onslault only to died within the following > > month. I DO NOT think this is all coincidental. My brother (who had > > yet to learn of this disease) experienced the VERY things with young > > Angelfish he recently bought from Walmart a couple of months ago, > > amost word for word. In his case, his lone surviving Angel lasted > > another 3 weeks after the first ones died -- and he knows about > > keeping fish properly. Many of my customers (fish store owners who > > purchase my Angelfish) have told me of the quality of Angelfish (and > > the Virus they still carry) they've bought in the recent past from > > both Florida and directly from the Far East that just fold up on them > > within a week's time, often resulting in complete losses -- the > > unaccounted for ones having already been sold prior to the end of the > > week. These sources and the Angelfish Virus they promote through > > selling infected fish are still notorious for spreading this disease > > with the help of unknowing dealers and hobbyists even today. > > > > Of course, you do not need to believe me, but then it would be folly > > to continue in the manner you're attempting to add Angelfish to your > > tank in hopes they'll survive. For all we know though, without having > > your two Angelfish analyzed, they may be the healthiest Angels on > > earth -- But I wouldn't want to bet the farm on it! > > > > I suggested to you what needs to be done to succeed. You may follow > > this advice, or you may ignore it -- that's your decision. When buying > > from a different source, a reputable breeder who has reliably supplied > > quality disease-free Angelfish for many years simply cannot afford to > > risk selling diseased Angelfish, and still have his business and > > reputation survive. IF contemplating buying from such a known and > > reputable dealer, you need to make sure whom you are dealing with. > > There are many reputable Angelfish breeders in existance, but with > > your not having the experience to know which are the better ones, you > > may not know yet who to buy from with confidence. I WILL tell you that > > you can't expect to pay Walmart prices and still get good fish. A lot > > of work goes into raising these Angelfish and as a result these > > breeders will (need) to charge more, but a good breeder will be fair > > -- he does not need to price-gouge. If you're still following up on > > this, and need further advise, there are a number of people here who > > can best assist you with recommending breeders of quality Angels. I > > can start by wholeheartedly recommending Steve Rybicki of Angels Plus > > as one whom I can vouch for selling disease-free Angelfish; Steve's > > been in the business for at least 25 years. Ray > > > > --- In AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com > > <mailto:AquaticLife %40yahoogroups. com>, Joellen & Kevin Analla > > <anallafamily. 2001@> wrote: > > > > > > So basically what your saying is that all fish in tank (2Angels) > > must die then i need to disinfect all equipment then start all over > > buying from a different source but theres no garanteen that even a > > differant source could still get infected in that case i would have to > > repeat process agian......Really isnt there a better way, or even a > > way of knowing that fish will be ok . > > > > > > --- On Wed, 6/24/09, Raymond Wetzel <sevenspringss@ > wrote: > > > > > > > > > From: Raymond Wetzel <sevenspringss@ > > > > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Angels Please help??? > > > To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com <mailto:AquaticLife %40yahoogroups. com> > > > Date: Wednesday, June 24, 2009, 1:33 AM > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Hello Jo, So sorry you are running into this frustrating experience > > in trying to keep Angelfish, when the species is not difficult to > > maintain. Ordinarily, we would ask just what you meant (and will still > > do this) when you say that your water is all testing okay. When giving > > us any of your data concerning your water parameters, we prefer to > > have number to be evaluate your circumstances, and the actual test > > results in ppm (parts per million) best reflect your actual > > conditions. If you could give us your test results for pH, ammonia, > > nitrite and even nitrate, it could be a great help. If you can provide > > results for temporary hardness (KH) and total/general hardness (GH), > > this may be of further assistance to us -- the more information, the > > better. BUT, in this particular case, I do not believe it's your water > > quality that's at fault, even though we need to rule that out. > > > > > > Most unfortunately, new prospective Angelfish hobbyists will run > > into this situation when buying from retailers who prefer obtaining > > their Angelfish stocks indiscriminantly, possibly in an effort to save > > money or perhaps just for the convenience. However, in buying in > > essence what can be established as inferior stock, I fail to see what > > they think they gain. Unfortunately too, the customer (you) is too > > often unsuspecting of this possibility and blame the deaths of these > > fish on themselves, when in truth it's the poor stock itself that > > these outlets continue to retail -- despite the many losses they > > themselves have with each re-stocking. > > > > > > These retailers know that they will not be alienating their > > customers, as these customers are completely unaware that this stock > > is inferior, and in their quest to maintain this beautiful species, > > they repeatedly buy new stock in hopes they can keep them alive. Some > > of the larger chain stores (and some smaller shops) operate in this > > manner, Walmart having been one of them until they gave up selling > > tropical fish; these stores continuing to buy their Angels only from > > preferred sources which may include a headquarter- -designated > > distributor, a Florida fish farm, a local wholesaler that buys from > > either Florida or the Far East, or a Far East breeding establishment- > > -exporter -- rather than a reputable domestic breeder. > > > > > > Now, getting to the root of this practice and its problem. Going > > back some 15 years or slightly more, there was a major outbreak of a > > horrific Angelfish Virus disease originating in the Far East, > > decimating Angelfish stocks there as well as in this country when it > > was introduced here through imports of that stock into this country. > > Many domestic Angelfish breeders in this country were wiped out or at > > least partially effected, not suspecting this problem, and mixed that > > stock with theirs. The problem didn't stop there in this country as a > > good number of the Florida fish farmers also introduced this diseased > > Asian stock of Angelfish to their hatcheries in efforts to strengthen > > their own stocks with "new blood," not yet knowing the consequences > > they would have to pay. > > > > > > Gradually, this disease was finally contained although never > > completely cured. Those Asian stocks that survived were strengthened > > by natural selection to be able to remain viable while still carrying > > th Virus as a latent disease always present but under control of these > > latest Angelfish's adapted immune systems. This same adaptation of the > > Angelfish's immune system to contain this Virus as of late, also > > emerged from those Florida fish farm's stocks which were similarly > > effected. > > > > > > As a result, most any Angelfish derived today from either those > > effected Florida fish farms or those Far Eastern hatchery/exporters > > carry this Virus as a weaker (as controlled now by these Angels' new > > but limited immunity), yet still viable disease still capable of > > overtaking the Angelfish as soon as receieves enough stress. This > > shared (but not mutually beneficial where the fish is concerned) > > existance is called "symbiosis," and is seen also in many Cichlids -- > > including Angelfish -- as Hexamita, where this protozoan resides in a > > latent condition in the fish's intestine, only to overtake the fish > > when the fish experiences sufficient stress for it to do so. > > > > > > So, now when these Angelfish (carrying this disease) reach your > > local fish store, they look fine at first and appear most healthy. > > However, the stress of shipping soon takes its toll over the next week > > as the disease now devastates these stressed and weakened fish. These > > fish are not expected to last much more than an average of 6 or 7 days > > as a result of what happens with them. Likewise, many (most?) of the > > same fish in these stores that stock them soon die also (they are > > KNOWN to fold up), but the storekeeper has still made his profit and > > has "satisfied" his customers, which causes them to keep coming back > > to those stores. > > > > > > If any of this rings a bell for you, you may finally be > > understanding what's happening with your Angelfish. A few, such as the > > two you have that survived so far will live for an undetermined period > > of time, but their days are still numbered (could live for another few > > weeks or so). If you still want to keep Angelfish, you cannot continue > > to buy them from this present source as they'll meet the same fate, > > nor can you add any other Angelfish to this tank from a different > > source as they'll become infected. I really hate to have to suggest > > this, and I don't know if you have any other species of fish presently > > in this tank, but before you add any more Angels -- and they MUST be > > from a reputable domestic breeder -- this tank and all its equipment > > must be disinfected after these two remaining Angels secumb. I hope > > this whole scenario of events as pertains to Angelfish has been at > > least enlightening for you, and will serve to assist you in the future > > (we'll > > > still be here to help). I regret that since you most probably have > > introduced disease-carrying Angelfish unknowingly, that you'll have a > > long road ahead of you in maintaining your goal, but at least now you > > know what to expect. Please keep us posted, Ray > > > > > > --- In AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com, "anallafamily. 2001" > > <anallafamily. 2001@> wrote: > > > > > > > > I'm new to the group so just let me know if I say or do something > > not right...... > > > > My Question.... I wanted to start up an angel tank so I have a > > 55gal set up.. I keep buying 5 angels at a time and they keep dying > > slowly but surely.. I think altogether I have bought 16 Angels and I > > have managed to get 2 to live for at least 6 days now. I have plenty > > of filtration and water flow, I have ph at 6.5 and water is all > > testing ok... So what am I doing wrong? and should I go get more since > > I got 2 to live uhhhhhh What do I do I feel like I want to give up but > > I really thought they were such a beautiful fish. > > > > Please Help Jo.. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 41394	From: bill 1433	Date: 6/25/2009
Subject: Re: Angels Please help???

Jo,   I haven't noticed in your postings before, or may have missed it altogether, but it might also help if you tell us what the name or manufacture of your testing equipment is.   Bill --- On Thu, 6/25/09, Joellen & Kevin Analla <anallafamily.2001@...> wrote: From: Joellen & Kevin Analla <anallafamily.2001@...> Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: Angels Please help??? To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Date: Thursday, June 25, 2009, 10:26 AM Well as I know there isno exact amount of time for a tank to cycle it has been set up for at least 2 mo. and before i put angels in it i tested amonia and it was ok. The amonia levels have raised only since the fish have been dieing. Well yesterday i did a partial water change to try and lower amonia levels. I have yet to test it this morning to see if it helped. Jo --- On Thu, 6/25/09, Raymond Wetzel <sevenspringss@...> wrote: From: Raymond Wetzel <sevenspringss@...> Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Angels Please help??? To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Date: Thursday, June 25, 2009, 9:59 AM Hi Amber, Going with everything I read of Jo's postings on the scenario of this whole situation, yes, I can only conclude with a good deal of certainty that here fish are dying as a result of this infection. This terrible disease was prevalent some 15 to 20 years ago, first eminating, then spreading friom the Far East. While I've lived through this period and have experienced this whole sequence of events day to day of the hobby being so adversely affected by this disease, this is not my reason for my coming to this conclusion. Devastating as it was, I am not an alarmist. Others here, who may never have heard of this disease (or who may have, but think this is now past history), cannot know that this disease still survives today in Angelfish from Angelfish stocks still being produced in those areas (Asia & Florida) where the disease originated and then was most prevalent. This disease was never conquered. The Far Eastern Angelfish breeders were never completely wiped out (even though extremely affected by hugh losses) to the point that they started back completely fresh with completely all new stock. The Angelfish stock that they were left with, that finally survived the onslaught due to their immunity system finally coping with this disease is the same stock they continued with -- now a necessarily stronger breeder stock for them and the Florida fish farmers, in that they have a higher immune system to be able to deal with this virus that co-exists with them in their systems. However, even though the juveniles from this stock (possibly the 4th or 5th generation by now, from when this first started) are expose to this virus early on in their lives -- their immune systems having to have built up against this disease as they grew to selling size -- the stress of shipping when combined with the constant battle of their immune systems having to deal with this ever-present virus in their systems (due to its ongoing presence in their environment) is just too much for them to endure. The influences of both stresses soon take their toll, manifested as losses within 6 or 7 days for most of the stock that were subjected to the stress of shipping. Any other Angels that seemingly were not quite as affected/stressed by shipping immediately may live a short while later, but by this time the virus is now overpowering their immune system to the point of eventually (often within the month) killing them. Obviously, introducing any Angels in with these infected fish during this time of them living in limbo is to be subjecting these new Angels to a disease they've never seen and have no defence at all for, with the inevitable loss of them as well. The infected environment is just as deadly to any new Angels, even without the presence of infected fish, until this environment is disinfected. This disease still persists today -- it has never been irradiacated and is an unfortunate situation for an unsuspecting hobbyist who has no previous knowledge of it, when they buy such fish from those sources (like Walmart) which persist in selling them only because these fish are the lowest price their management can find to contract with. It's a very dangerous situation. Now, getting back to these other points you've brought up, which need addressing. While, as \\Steve// says, ideally no ammonia should be permitted to exist, and while Jo's ammonia level of 1.0 ppm does certainly appear to be the direct result of an uncycled tank (since ammonia has shown to build up in her tank from 0.0 ppm to 1.0 ppm, yet is not being converted to nitrite) still, with Jo's ph at between 6.5 (original post) and 6.6 (follow-up post) any and all Ammonia would be in the form or relatively harmless Ammonium -- not affecting the Angelfish detrimentally in the least -- so we can rule this out, if that's what you need done. I cannot condone the use of buffers to lower the pH either, and again go right along with \\Steve// on this. Not only as it's not at all needed (especially in this situation of maintaining Angelfish) but can lead to serious consequences such as unstable pH levels and/or even possible pH crashes as \\Steve// points out. Still, I see no evidence of Jo having to add any additional amounts of pH buffer between PWC's because of the buffer being exhausted, nor have I seen any high pH level readings, although there still may have been some between PWC's, which may not have been tested for. Likewise, I have fortunately not seen evidence of a pH crash, nor any possible cause for pH shock as a result of such a crash. Jo's methods of acclimating may leave more to be desired even though the concept is correct as, unless she has not given a full description, this tank water introduction to the bucket containing the fish does seem to be too abbreviated. Full acclimation requires more than one or two cups of new water over a period of 15 minutes (as I seem to perceive from her post), but it's possible she may just not have gone into the repetition of this procedure. In all, with taking into consideration all possible negative points you've brought up and needed to have addressed, or that \\Steve// or I could think of to be ruled out, I cannot see where any of these other possibilities could enter into consideration -- especially when realizing that these deaths were not a one-time occurance, but have repeatedly happened with each numerous addition of new Angelfish in the many attempts to introduce them to her tank. One might be able to say that in isolated incidences, that a certain batch of Angelfish may have been pH-shocked, or that another batch of Angelfish may have been inadvertantly subjected to lethal levels of ammonia at some point -- which appears quite remote, even if I'm reaching for straws -- but when repeated batches of Angelfish die for no other apparent reason there is a pattern that develops which to me has no other answer than this Virus by what is occurring -- when looking at all other details involved in this picture. I've seen it too many times to not ignore it, nor mistake it for anything else. Ray --- In AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com, Amber Berglund <amber@...> wrote: > > Ray are you sure that his fish are dying to this infection rather than > dying from ammonia poisoning from an uncycled tank? Not to mention he > used a pH adjusting buffer to lower his pH... > This might just be a lack of experience too I would think it's possible > at least. We should at least rule those out before rushing into thinking > it's a serious problem right from the bat (the Angelfish infection). > > Amber > > Raymond Wetzel wrote: > > > > > > By your post, it appears that you've taken the time to read over my > > message on the topic, so you could finally understand it -- which I > > appreciate your doing, as it will only benefit yourself. Your two > > remaining Angelfish stand a better chance of dying a premature death, > > and that death may come even sooner than later. I have seen other > > hobbyists maintaining a few remnant Angels from such origins after the > > rest of the original stocks of them had perished, only to pass on > > within the following month (or two, at the latest). You may try to > > return these two Angels for store credit, if they'll allow it, but > > otherwise, you'd need to keep only these two until something happens > > to them. > > > > To add any Angelfish from other sources to these two Angelfish, would > > be to subject them to an infection that they have no immunity for, > > with the inevitable results of their dying from this, and quite fast. > > If you want more Angels, and if you want healthy Angels, there is no > > other choice than to put them in a clean, disinfected tank that you're > > sure does not contain any disease -- which requires that these two > > Angelfish no longer inhabit this tank, one way or another. > > > > IF there is a better way (and I know of no other way), I would be more > > than pleased to tell you. As for knowing that a fish will be okay, I > > can only tell you this -- that I, nor anyone else, cannot say with > > 100% certainty that your two remaining Angelfish are not okay -- it's > > impossible for me to be able to do that from where I am (not within > > reach of your fish) or without the benefit of a slide smear of this > > fish's waste to evaluate under the microscope. But ALL things you've > > related about these fish and their deceased siblings, including their > > source, the suddenness of their demise and the repetition of these > > same circumstances spells out for me with enough certainty with all > > I've experienced and learned of this very disease, that this is indeed > > the dreaded fatal pathogen that has plagued Angelfish ongoing from a > > quarter century ago. > > > > I could choose to see your Angelfish loses as just the chance results > > of poorer than required water conditions combined with your possible > > inexperience with them and the luck of the draw along with the > > inevitableness of young Angels dying en-mass for unexplained reasons > > not unrelated to your general lack of aquarium knowledge at this stage > > of the game -- as some here may be suggesting -- but to do so would be > > to go against everything I've learned about Angelfish in 62 years of > > working with them, and living through the horrid period of decimation > > of these fish through the spread of this Virus. > > > > I've seen many, many cases of this virus striking Angelfish and have > > known many Angelfish breeders who were effected by the devastation of > > it and the experiences they've gone through during the peak period > > when this Virus was at its worst. > > > > AND . . . > > > > I have seen in TODAY's WORLD, the EXACT same thing as you are > > describing happening to you, of Angelfish being sold by Walmart (and > > others) which are infected by this virus and which have been dropping > > otherwise unexplainedly like flies -- INCLUDING having one or two fish > > temporarily survive this onslault only to died within the following > > month. I DO NOT think this is all coincidental. My brother (who had > > yet to learn of this disease) experienced the VERY things with young > > Angelfish he recently bought from Walmart a couple of months ago, > > amost word for word. In his case, his lone surviving Angel lasted > > another 3 weeks after the first ones died -- and he knows about > > keeping fish properly. Many of my customers (fish store owners who > > purchase my Angelfish) have told me of the quality of Angelfish (and > > the Virus they still carry) they've bought in the recent past from > > both Florida and directly from the Far East that just fold up on them > > within a week's time, often resulting in complete losses -- the > > unaccounted for ones having already been sold prior to the end of the > > week. These sources and the Angelfish Virus they promote through > > selling infected fish are still notorious for spreading this disease > > with the help of unknowing dealers and hobbyists even today. > > > > Of course, you do not need to believe me, but then it would be folly > > to continue in the manner you're attempting to add Angelfish to your > > tank in hopes they'll survive. For all we know though, without having > > your two Angelfish analyzed, they may be the healthiest Angels on > > earth -- But I wouldn't want to bet the farm on it! > > > > I suggested to you what needs to be done to succeed. You may follow > > this advice, or you may ignore it -- that's your decision. When buying > > from a different source, a reputable breeder who has reliably supplied > > quality disease-free Angelfish for many years simply cannot afford to > > risk selling diseased Angelfish, and still have his business and > > reputation survive. IF contemplating buying from such a known and > > reputable dealer, you need to make sure whom you are dealing with. > > There are many reputable Angelfish breeders in existance, but with > > your not having the experience to know which are the better ones, you > > may not know yet who to buy from with confidence. I WILL tell you that > > you can't expect to pay Walmart prices and still get good fish. A lot > > of work goes into raising these Angelfish and as a result these > > breeders will (need) to charge more, but a good breeder will be fair > > -- he does not need to price-gouge. If you're still following up on > > this, and need further advise, there are a number of people here who > > can best assist you with recommending breeders of quality Angels. I > > can start by wholeheartedly recommending Steve Rybicki of Angels Plus > > as one whom I can vouch for selling disease-free Angelfish; Steve's > > been in the business for at least 25 years. Ray > > > > --- In AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com > > <mailto:AquaticLife %40yahoogroups. com>, Joellen & Kevin Analla > > <anallafamily. 2001@> wrote: > > > > > > So basically what your saying is that all fish in tank (2Angels) > > must die then i need to disinfect all equipment then start all over > > buying from a different source but theres no garanteen that even a > > differant source could still get infected in that case i would have to > > repeat process agian......Really isnt there a better way, or even a > > way of knowing that fish will be ok . > > > > > > --- On Wed, 6/24/09, Raymond Wetzel <sevenspringss@ > wrote: > > > > > > > > > From: Raymond Wetzel <sevenspringss@ > > > > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Angels Please help??? > > > To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com <mailto:AquaticLife %40yahoogroups. com> > > > Date: Wednesday, June 24, 2009, 1:33 AM > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Hello Jo, So sorry you are running into this frustrating experience > > in trying to keep Angelfish, when the species is not difficult to > > maintain. Ordinarily, we would ask just what you meant (and will still > > do this) when you say that your water is all testing okay. When giving > > us any of your data concerning your water parameters, we prefer to > > have number to be evaluate your circumstances, and the actual test > > results in ppm (parts per million) best reflect your actual > > conditions. If you could give us your test results for pH, ammonia, > > nitrite and even nitrate, it could be a great help. If you can provide > > results for temporary hardness (KH) and total/general hardness (GH), > > this may be of further assistance to us -- the more information, the > > better. BUT, in this particular case, I do not believe it's your water > > quality that's at fault, even though we need to rule that out. > > > > > > Most unfortunately, new prospective Angelfish hobbyists will run > > into this situation when buying from retailers who prefer obtaining > > their Angelfish stocks indiscriminantly, possibly in an effort to save > > money or perhaps just for the convenience. However, in buying in > > essence what can be established as inferior stock, I fail to see what > > they think they gain. Unfortunately too, the customer (you) is too > > often unsuspecting of this possibility and blame the deaths of these > > fish on themselves, when in truth it's the poor stock itself that > > these outlets continue to retail -- despite the many losses they > > themselves have with each re-stocking. > > > > > > These retailers know that they will not be alienating their > > customers, as these customers are completely unaware that this stock > > is inferior, and in their quest to maintain this beautiful species, > > they repeatedly buy new stock in hopes they can keep them alive. Some > > of the larger chain stores (and some smaller shops) operate in this > > manner, Walmart having been one of them until they gave up selling > > tropical fish; these stores continuing to buy their Angels only from > > preferred sources which may include a headquarter- -designated > > distributor, a Florida fish farm, a local wholesaler that buys from > > either Florida or the Far East, or a Far East breeding establishment- > > -exporter -- rather than a reputable domestic breeder. > > > > > > Now, getting to the root of this practice and its problem. Going > > back some 15 years or slightly more, there was a major outbreak of a > > horrific Angelfish Virus disease originating in the Far East, > > decimating Angelfish stocks there as well as in this country when it > > was introduced here through imports of that stock into this country. > > Many domestic Angelfish breeders in this country were wiped out or at > > least partially effected, not suspecting this problem, and mixed that > > stock with theirs. The problem didn't stop there in this country as a > > good number of the Florida fish farmers also introduced this diseased > > Asian stock of Angelfish to their hatcheries in efforts to strengthen > > their own stocks with "new blood," not yet knowing the consequences > > they would have to pay. > > > > > > Gradually, this disease was finally contained although never > > completely cured. Those Asian stocks that survived were strengthened > > by natural selection to be able to remain viable while still carrying > > th Virus as a latent disease always present but under control of these > > latest Angelfish's adapted immune systems. This same adaptation of the > > Angelfish's immune system to contain this Virus as of late, also > > emerged from those Florida fish farm's stocks which were similarly > > effected. > > > > > > As a result, most any Angelfish derived today from either those > > effected Florida fish farms or those Far Eastern hatchery/exporters > > carry this Virus as a weaker (as controlled now by these Angels' new > > but limited immunity), yet still viable disease still capable of > > overtaking the Angelfish as soon as receieves enough stress. This > > shared (but not mutually beneficial where the fish is concerned) > > existance is called "symbiosis," and is seen also in many Cichlids -- > > including Angelfish -- as Hexamita, where this protozoan resides in a > > latent condition in the fish's intestine, only to overtake the fish > > when the fish experiences sufficient stress for it to do so. > > > > > > So, now when these Angelfish (carrying this disease) reach your > > local fish store, they look fine at first and appear most healthy. > > However, the stress of shipping soon takes its toll over the next week > > as the disease now devastates these stressed and weakened fish. These > > fish are not expected to last much more than an average of 6 or 7 days > > as a result of what happens with them. Likewise, many (most?) of the > > same fish in these stores that stock them soon die also (they are > > KNOWN to fold up), but the storekeeper has still made his profit and > > has "satisfied" his customers, which causes them to keep coming back > > to those stores. > > > > > > If any of this rings a bell for you, you may finally be > > understanding what's happening with your Angelfish. A few, such as the > > two you have that survived so far will live for an undetermined period > > of time, but their days are still numbered (could live for another few > > weeks or so). If you still want to keep Angelfish, you cannot continue > > to buy them from this present source as they'll meet the same fate, > > nor can you add any other Angelfish to this tank from a different > > source as they'll become infected. I really hate to have to suggest > > this, and I don't know if you have any other species of fish presently > > in this tank, but before you add any more Angels -- and they MUST be > > from a reputable domestic breeder -- this tank and all its equipment > > must be disinfected after these two remaining Angels secumb. I hope > > this whole scenario of events as pertains to Angelfish has been at > > least enlightening for you, and will serve to assist you in the future > > (we'll > > > still be here to help). I regret that since you most probably have > > introduced disease-carrying Angelfish unknowingly, that you'll have a > > long road ahead of you in maintaining your goal, but at least now you > > know what to expect. Please keep us posted, Ray > > > > > > --- In AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com, "anallafamily. 2001" > > <anallafamily. 2001@> wrote: > > > > > > > > I'm new to the group so just let me know if I say or do something > > not right...... > > > > My Question.... I wanted to start up an angel tank so I have a > > 55gal set up.. I keep buying 5 angels at a time and they keep dying > > slowly but surely.. I think altogether I have bought 16 Angels and I > > have managed to get 2 to live for at least 6 days now. I have plenty > > of filtration and water flow, I have ph at 6.5 and water is all > > testing ok... So what am I doing wrong? and should I go get more since > > I got 2 to live uhhhhhh What do I do I feel like I want to give up but > > I really thought they were such a beautiful fish. > > > > Please Help Jo.. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > > > > >       [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] ------------------------------------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the home page.  Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com to receive the digest, which includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com for the No E-Mail option where you will still be able to read messages on the group and post replies. Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com to receive individual e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 41395	From: Byron	Date: 6/25/2009
Subject: Re: Flourish products

Plants require adequate light (high in the blue and red spectrum, intensity and duration) and nutrients (in which I include CO2, macro-nutrients and micro-nutrients) in order to photosynthesis (grow). These must be in balance for the plant. If there is an excess of any one beyond what the plant is capable of using (limited by the least available in the equation) algae usually takes over. Light should ideally be the limiting factor, so the aim is to provide the proper amount of nutrients to balance the light provided over the aquarium. Light is easy enough to provide through fluorescent full spectrum tubes, but it must be of the intensity (indicated in Kelvin) and duration. I won't go further into this as you specifically asked about Flourish, the nutrient part of the equation. CO2 is provided by the respiration of the fish, and sometimes by added CO2 (gas or Excel). That leaves the macro- and micro-nutrients (latter called trace elements) that are required, and they also must be in balance according to the plants' needs. Some but almost cetainly not all of these may be available in tap water through the partial water changes. The easiest way to provide all that are required and in balance is through a comprehensive plant supplement. I currently use Seachem's Flourish Comprehensive Plant Supplement, and previously I have had equal success with the Kent Freshwater Plant Supplement. I do not recommend using individual nutrient products, since the trick is to balance them and there is a risk of providing too much or too little of this or that, and sometimes this is detrimental to plant growth and can cause algae bursts. I have read of some nutrients that will, when in excess, work to prohibit a plant from absorbing other nutrients. And excess iron can cause blotching and leaf deterioration. There has to be a balance, and the best way is to use a balanced (comprehensive) supplement. I have one watt of full spectrum light per gallon, no CO2, and use Flourish Comprehensive twice a week; I have plant tabs in the substrate next to the larger swords which are heavy feeders. I grow lush Echinodorus that regularly send up flower spikes (no flowers, but daughter plants), crypts, Anubias, Sagittarius, Ceratopteris, and Brazilian Pennywort that has to be cut back every week or it would cover the surface. Twice in the past five months I have reduced the fertilization to once a week, and both times within a week the swords developed yellowing leaves, a sign of nutrient (likely iron) deficiency. Increasing the fertilization to twice a week had the new leaves lush green within 1-2 weeks. Obviously I seem to have found the balance between the light, CO2 and micro- and macro-nutrients for the plants in my 70g and 90g aquaria. This has been my method for 15+ years. Byron. --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, Amber Berglund <amber@...> wrote: > > Does anyone out there use more than just flourish excel for their fish > tanks? > I got several of the products to see if they will make a difference in > my 55 gallon for the potted plants that aren't doing so spiffy. I > haven't tried any of them except the excel yet. > I got: > Flourish > Flourish trace > Flourish potassium > Flourish excel > Flourish iron > > Anything special that anyone wants to point out before I use any of > these products? (besides the flourish excel which I'm already using in > my 55 gallon community tank). > > Amber >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 41396	From: Joellen & Kevin Analla	Date: 6/25/2009
Subject: Re: Angels Please help???

All of my test kits are API. ??? --- On Thu, 6/25/09, bill 1433 <warrenprint@...> wrote: From: bill 1433 <warrenprint@...> Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: Angels Please help??? To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Date: Thursday, June 25, 2009, 10:43 AM Jo,   I haven't noticed in your postings before, or may have missed it altogether, but it might also help if you tell us what the name or manufacture of your testing equipment is.   Bill --- On Thu, 6/25/09, Joellen & Kevin Analla <anallafamily. 2001@yahoo. com> wrote: From: Joellen & Kevin Analla <anallafamily. 2001@yahoo. com> Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: Angels Please help??? To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com Date: Thursday, June 25, 2009, 10:26 AM Well as I know there isno exact amount of time for a tank to cycle it has been set up for at least 2 mo. and before i put angels in it i tested amonia and it was ok. The amonia levels have raised only since the fish have been dieing. Well yesterday i did a partial water change to try and lower amonia levels. I have yet to test it this morning to see if it helped. Jo --- On Thu, 6/25/09, Raymond Wetzel <sevenspringss@ wmconnect. com> wrote: From: Raymond Wetzel <sevenspringss@ wmconnect. com> Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Angels Please help??? To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com Date: Thursday, June 25, 2009, 9:59 AM Hi Amber, Going with everything I read of Jo's postings on the scenario of this whole situation, yes, I can only conclude with a good deal of certainty that here fish are dying as a result of this infection. This terrible disease was prevalent some 15 to 20 years ago, first eminating, then spreading friom the Far East. While I've lived through this period and have experienced this whole sequence of events day to day of the hobby being so adversely affected by this disease, this is not my reason for my coming to this conclusion. Devastating as it was, I am not an alarmist. Others here, who may never have heard of this disease (or who may have, but think this is now past history), cannot know that this disease still survives today in Angelfish from Angelfish stocks still being produced in those areas (Asia & Florida) where the disease originated and then was most prevalent. This disease was never conquered. The Far Eastern Angelfish breeders were never completely wiped out (even though extremely affected by hugh losses) to the point that they started back completely fresh with completely all new stock. The Angelfish stock that they were left with, that finally survived the onslaught due to their immunity system finally coping with this disease is the same stock they continued with -- now a necessarily stronger breeder stock for them and the Florida fish farmers, in that they have a higher immune system to be able to deal with this virus that co-exists with them in their systems. However, even though the juveniles from this stock (possibly the 4th or 5th generation by now, from when this first started) are expose to this virus early on in their lives -- their immune systems having to have built up against this disease as they grew to selling size -- the stress of shipping when combined with the constant battle of their immune systems having to deal with this ever-present virus in their systems (due to its ongoing presence in their environment) is just too much for them to endure. The influences of both stresses soon take their toll, manifested as losses within 6 or 7 days for most of the stock that were subjected to the stress of shipping. Any other Angels that seemingly were not quite as affected/stressed by shipping immediately may live a short while later, but by this time the virus is now overpowering their immune system to the point of eventually (often within the month) killing them. Obviously, introducing any Angels in with these infected fish during this time of them living in limbo is to be subjecting these new Angels to a disease they've never seen and have no defence at all for, with the inevitable loss of them as well. The infected environment is just as deadly to any new Angels, even without the presence of infected fish, until this environment is disinfected. This disease still persists today -- it has never been irradiacated and is an unfortunate situation for an unsuspecting hobbyist who has no previous knowledge of it, when they buy such fish from those sources (like Walmart) which persist in selling them only because these fish are the lowest price their management can find to contract with. It's a very dangerous situation. Now, getting back to these other points you've brought up, which need addressing. While, as \\Steve// says, ideally no ammonia should be permitted to exist, and while Jo's ammonia level of 1.0 ppm does certainly appear to be the direct result of an uncycled tank (since ammonia has shown to build up in her tank from 0.0 ppm to 1.0 ppm, yet is not being converted to nitrite) still, with Jo's ph at between 6.5 (original post) and 6.6 (follow-up post) any and all Ammonia would be in the form or relatively harmless Ammonium -- not affecting the Angelfish detrimentally in the least -- so we can rule this out, if that's what you need done. I cannot condone the use of buffers to lower the pH either, and again go right along with \\Steve// on this. Not only as it's not at all needed (especially in this situation of maintaining Angelfish) but can lead to serious consequences such as unstable pH levels and/or even possible pH crashes as \\Steve// points out. Still, I see no evidence of Jo having to add any additional amounts of pH buffer between PWC's because of the buffer being exhausted, nor have I seen any high pH level readings, although there still may have been some between PWC's, which may not have been tested for. Likewise, I have fortunately not seen evidence of a pH crash, nor any possible cause for pH shock as a result of such a crash. Jo's methods of acclimating may leave more to be desired even though the concept is correct as, unless she has not given a full description, this tank water introduction to the bucket containing the fish does seem to be too abbreviated. Full acclimation requires more than one or two cups of new water over a period of 15 minutes (as I seem to perceive from her post), but it's possible she may just not have gone into the repetition of this procedure. In all, with taking into consideration all possible negative points you've brought up and needed to have addressed, or that \\Steve// or I could think of to be ruled out, I cannot see where any of these other possibilities could enter into consideration -- especially when realizing that these deaths were not a one-time occurance, but have repeatedly happened with each numerous addition of new Angelfish in the many attempts to introduce them to her tank. One might be able to say that in isolated incidences, that a certain batch of Angelfish may have been pH-shocked, or that another batch of Angelfish may have been inadvertantly subjected to lethal levels of ammonia at some point -- which appears quite remote, even if I'm reaching for straws -- but when repeated batches of Angelfish die for no other apparent reason there is a pattern that develops which to me has no other answer than this Virus by what is occurring -- when looking at all other details involved in this picture. I've seen it too many times to not ignore it, nor mistake it for anything else. Ray --- In AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com, Amber Berglund <amber@...> wrote: > > Ray are you sure that his fish are dying to this infection rather than > dying from ammonia poisoning from an uncycled tank? Not to mention he > used a pH adjusting buffer to lower his pH... > This might just be a lack of experience too I would think it's possible > at least. We should at least rule those out before rushing into thinking > it's a serious problem right from the bat (the Angelfish infection). > > Amber > > Raymond Wetzel wrote: > > > > > > By your post, it appears that you've taken the time to read over my > > message on the topic, so you could finally understand it -- which I > > appreciate your doing, as it will only benefit yourself. Your two > > remaining Angelfish stand a better chance of dying a premature death, > > and that death may come even sooner than later. I have seen other > > hobbyists maintaining a few remnant Angels from such origins after the > > rest of the original stocks of them had perished, only to pass on > > within the following month (or two, at the latest). You may try to > > return these two Angels for store credit, if they'll allow it, but > > otherwise, you'd need to keep only these two until something happens > > to them. > > > > To add any Angelfish from other sources to these two Angelfish, would > > be to subject them to an infection that they have no immunity for, > > with the inevitable results of their dying from this, and quite fast. > > If you want more Angels, and if you want healthy Angels, there is no > > other choice than to put them in a clean, disinfected tank that you're > > sure does not contain any disease -- which requires that these two > > Angelfish no longer inhabit this tank, one way or another. > > > > IF there is a better way (and I know of no other way), I would be more > > than pleased to tell you. As for knowing that a fish will be okay, I > > can only tell you this -- that I, nor anyone else, cannot say with > > 100% certainty that your two remaining Angelfish are not okay -- it's > > impossible for me to be able to do that from where I am (not within > > reach of your fish) or without the benefit of a slide smear of this > > fish's waste to evaluate under the microscope. But ALL things you've > > related about these fish and their deceased siblings, including their > > source, the suddenness of their demise and the repetition of these > > same circumstances spells out for me with enough certainty with all > > I've experienced and learned of this very disease, that this is indeed > > the dreaded fatal pathogen that has plagued Angelfish ongoing from a > > quarter century ago. > > > > I could choose to see your Angelfish loses as just the chance results > > of poorer than required water conditions combined with your possible > > inexperience with them and the luck of the draw along with the > > inevitableness of young Angels dying en-mass for unexplained reasons > > not unrelated to your general lack of aquarium knowledge at this stage > > of the game -- as some here may be suggesting -- but to do so would be > > to go against everything I've learned about Angelfish in 62 years of > > working with them, and living through the horrid period of decimation > > of these fish through the spread of this Virus. > > > > I've seen many, many cases of this virus striking Angelfish and have > > known many Angelfish breeders who were effected by the devastation of > > it and the experiences they've gone through during the peak period > > when this Virus was at its worst. > > > > AND . . . > > > > I have seen in TODAY's WORLD, the EXACT same thing as you are > > describing happening to you, of Angelfish being sold by Walmart (and > > others) which are infected by this virus and which have been dropping > > otherwise unexplainedly like flies -- INCLUDING having one or two fish > > temporarily survive this onslault only to died within the following > > month. I DO NOT think this is all coincidental. My brother (who had > > yet to learn of this disease) experienced the VERY things with young > > Angelfish he recently bought from Walmart a couple of months ago, > > amost word for word. In his case, his lone surviving Angel lasted > > another 3 weeks after the first ones died -- and he knows about > > keeping fish properly. Many of my customers (fish store owners who > > purchase my Angelfish) have told me of the quality of Angelfish (and > > the Virus they still carry) they've bought in the recent past from > > both Florida and directly from the Far East that just fold up on them > > within a week's time, often resulting in complete losses -- the > > unaccounted for ones having already been sold prior to the end of the > > week. These sources and the Angelfish Virus they promote through > > selling infected fish are still notorious for spreading this disease > > with the help of unknowing dealers and hobbyists even today. > > > > Of course, you do not need to believe me, but then it would be folly > > to continue in the manner you're attempting to add Angelfish to your > > tank in hopes they'll survive. For all we know though, without having > > your two Angelfish analyzed, they may be the healthiest Angels on > > earth -- But I wouldn't want to bet the farm on it! > > > > I suggested to you what needs to be done to succeed. You may follow > > this advice, or you may ignore it -- that's your decision. When buying > > from a different source, a reputable breeder who has reliably supplied > > quality disease-free Angelfish for many years simply cannot afford to > > risk selling diseased Angelfish, and still have his business and > > reputation survive. IF contemplating buying from such a known and > > reputable dealer, you need to make sure whom you are dealing with. > > There are many reputable Angelfish breeders in existance, but with > > your not having the experience to know which are the better ones, you > > may not know yet who to buy from with confidence. I WILL tell you that > > you can't expect to pay Walmart prices and still get good fish. A lot > > of work goes into raising these Angelfish and as a result these > > breeders will (need) to charge more, but a good breeder will be fair > > -- he does not need to price-gouge. If you're still following up on > > this, and need further advise, there are a number of people here who > > can best assist you with recommending breeders of quality Angels. I > > can start by wholeheartedly recommending Steve Rybicki of Angels Plus > > as one whom I can vouch for selling disease-free Angelfish; Steve's > > been in the business for at least 25 years. Ray > > > > --- In AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com > > <mailto:AquaticLife %40yahoogroups. com>, Joellen & Kevin Analla > > <anallafamily. 2001@> wrote: > > > > > > So basically what your saying is that all fish in tank (2Angels) > > must die then i need to disinfect all equipment then start all over > > buying from a different source but theres no garanteen that even a > > differant source could still get infected in that case i would have to > > repeat process agian......Really isnt there a better way, or even a > > way of knowing that fish will be ok . > > > > > > --- On Wed, 6/24/09, Raymond Wetzel <sevenspringss@ > wrote: > > > > > > > > > From: Raymond Wetzel <sevenspringss@ > > > > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Angels Please help??? > > > To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com <mailto:AquaticLife %40yahoogroups. com> > > > Date: Wednesday, June 24, 2009, 1:33 AM > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Hello Jo, So sorry you are running into this frustrating experience > > in trying to keep Angelfish, when the species is not difficult to > > maintain. Ordinarily, we would ask just what you meant (and will still > > do this) when you say that your water is all testing okay. When giving > > us any of your data concerning your water parameters, we prefer to > > have number to be evaluate your circumstances, and the actual test > > results in ppm (parts per million) best reflect your actual > > conditions. If you could give us your test results for pH, ammonia, > > nitrite and even nitrate, it could be a great help. If you can provide > > results for temporary hardness (KH) and total/general hardness (GH), > > this may be of further assistance to us -- the more information, the > > better. BUT, in this particular case, I do not believe it's your water > > quality that's at fault, even though we need to rule that out. > > > > > > Most unfortunately, new prospective Angelfish hobbyists will run > > into this situation when buying from retailers who prefer obtaining > > their Angelfish stocks indiscriminantly, possibly in an effort to save > > money or perhaps just for the convenience. However, in buying in > > essence what can be established as inferior stock, I fail to see what > > they think they gain. Unfortunately too, the customer (you) is too > > often unsuspecting of this possibility and blame the deaths of these > > fish on themselves, when in truth it's the poor stock itself that > > these outlets continue to retail -- despite the many losses they > > themselves have with each re-stocking. > > > > > > These retailers know that they will not be alienating their > > customers, as these customers are completely unaware that this stock > > is inferior, and in their quest to maintain this beautiful species, > > they repeatedly buy new stock in hopes they can keep them alive. Some > > of the larger chain stores (and some smaller shops) operate in this > > manner, Walmart having been one of them until they gave up selling > > tropical fish; these stores continuing to buy their Angels only from > > preferred sources which may include a headquarter- -designated > > distributor, a Florida fish farm, a local wholesaler that buys from > > either Florida or the Far East, or a Far East breeding establishment- > > -exporter -- rather than a reputable domestic breeder. > > > > > > Now, getting to the root of this practice and its problem. Going > > back some 15 years or slightly more, there was a major outbreak of a > > horrific Angelfish Virus disease originating in the Far East, > > decimating Angelfish stocks there as well as in this country when it > > was introduced here through imports of that stock into this country. > > Many domestic Angelfish breeders in this country were wiped out or at > > least partially effected, not suspecting this problem, and mixed that > > stock with theirs. The problem didn't stop there in this country as a > > good number of the Florida fish farmers also introduced this diseased > > Asian stock of Angelfish to their hatcheries in efforts to strengthen > > their own stocks with "new blood," not yet knowing the consequences > > they would have to pay. > > > > > > Gradually, this disease was finally contained although never > > completely cured. Those Asian stocks that survived were strengthened > > by natural selection to be able to remain viable while still carrying > > th Virus as a latent disease always present but under control of these > > latest Angelfish's adapted immune systems. This same adaptation of the > > Angelfish's immune system to contain this Virus as of late, also > > emerged from those Florida fish farm's stocks which were similarly > > effected. > > > > > > As a result, most any Angelfish derived today from either those > > effected Florida fish farms or those Far Eastern hatchery/exporters > > carry this Virus as a weaker (as controlled now by these Angels' new > > but limited immunity), yet still viable disease still capable of > > overtaking the Angelfish as soon as receieves enough stress. This > > shared (but not mutually beneficial where the fish is concerned) > > existance is called "symbiosis," and is seen also in many Cichlids -- > > including Angelfish -- as Hexamita, where this protozoan resides in a > > latent condition in the fish's intestine, only to overtake the fish > > when the fish experiences sufficient stress for it to do so. > > > > > > So, now when these Angelfish (carrying this disease) reach your > > local fish store, they look fine at first and appear most healthy. > > However, the stress of shipping soon takes its toll over the next week > > as the disease now devastates these stressed and weakened fish. These > > fish are not expected to last much more than an average of 6 or 7 days > > as a result of what happens with them. Likewise, many (most?) of the > > same fish in these stores that stock them soon die also (they are > > KNOWN to fold up), but the storekeeper has still made his profit and > > has "satisfied" his customers, which causes them to keep coming back > > to those stores. > > > > > > If any of this rings a bell for you, you may finally be > > understanding what's happening with your Angelfish. A few, such as the > > two you have that survived so far will live for an undetermined period > > of time, but their days are still numbered (could live for another few > > weeks or so). If you still want to keep Angelfish, you cannot continue > > to buy them from this present source as they'll meet the same fate, > > nor can you add any other Angelfish to this tank from a different > > source as they'll become infected. I really hate to have to suggest > > this, and I don't know if you have any other species of fish presently > > in this tank, but before you add any more Angels -- and they MUST be > > from a reputable domestic breeder -- this tank and all its equipment > > must be disinfected after these two remaining Angels secumb. I hope > > this whole scenario of events as pertains to Angelfish has been at > > least enlightening for you, and will serve to assist you in the future > > (we'll > > > still be here to help). I regret that since you most probably have > > introduced disease-carrying Angelfish unknowingly, that you'll have a > > long road ahead of you in maintaining your goal, but at least now you > > know what to expect. Please keep us posted, Ray > > > > > > --- In AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com, "anallafamily. 2001" > > <anallafamily. 2001@> wrote: > > > > > > > > I'm new to the group so just let me know if I say or do something > > not right...... > > > > My Question.... I wanted to start up an angel tank so I have a > > 55gal set up.. I keep buying 5 angels at a time and they keep dying > > slowly but surely.. I think altogether I have bought 16 Angels and I > > have managed to get 2 to live for at least 6 days now. I have plenty > > of filtration and water flow, I have ph at 6.5 and water is all > > testing ok... So what am I doing wrong? and should I go get more since > > I got 2 to live uhhhhhh What do I do I feel like I want to give up but > > I really thought they were such a beautiful fish. > > > > Please Help Jo.. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > > > > >       [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] ------------ --------- --------- ------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the home page.  Or e-mail aquaticlife- digest@yahoogrou ps.com to receive the digest, which includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email Or email aquaticlife- nomail@yahoogrou ps.com for the No E-Mail option where you will still be able to read messages on the group and post replies. Or email aquaticlife- normal@yahoogrou ps.com to receive individual e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 41397	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 6/25/2009
Subject: Re: Angels

Can't help it if I appreciate nice coloring on fish, my hubby looks at my fish and usually just says, "they're fish, what am I supposed to say?" LOL. I was shocked when he say a male guppy that he really liked, which I have uploaded to the group photos if you're curious ;) LOL. It's under "Ambers 55 gallon tank", on aquabid they are sold as pink flamingo guppy's, he's very pretty though. Amber Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > > > That's the difference between guys and chicks... Amber looked at your > pics and mentioned the "pretty Angel's" and I looked at your pics and > talked about the UV Filter System and Uncle Wormie's bush-farm pics. > ;-) UGH, UGH!... me man, you woman! > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the > right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by > Year, Month) > > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On Behalf Of Jasmine > Sent: Thursday, June 25, 2009 4:20 AM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Angels > > Thank you Amber > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>, Amber Berglund <amber@...> wrote: > > > > They're in the group folders under "Jasmine" I believe... She has some > > very pretty Angel's. > > > > Amber > > > > bill 1433 wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > Hi Jasmine, > > > > > > I have been following along here but missed a link? Can you help? > > > Where are these pictures you posted or under what folder? Can you > > > give a link? > > > > > > Bill > > > > > > --- On Wed, 6/24/09, Raymond Wetzel <sevenspringss@... > > > <mailto:sevenspringss%40wmconnect.com>> wrote: > > > > > > From: Raymond Wetzel <sevenspringss@... > > > <mailto:sevenspringss%40wmconnect.com>> > > > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Angels > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > Date: Wednesday, June 24, 2009, 8:40 AM > > > > > > Hi Jasmine, Looks like you guys were really talking it up last > > > night at the same time, and after, I was writing my last post. As > > > this was one of the messages being generated while I was composing, > > > I'll start here. Hope your cold is better -- I'm just getting rid > > > of mine, but its been a real rough stretch of days from just before > > > the past weekend, as I was hit with a double-wammy (chest & nasal) > > > cold that left me BEAT. Much better today, but it's still lingering. > > > > > > You might note, by my question on this, that it's no surprise that > > > your Angels WERE bought at different times, as I well knew from your > > > picture of these procedings. What I couldn't know though, was that > > > the Marble (male) was originally paired up with the Silver (female) > > > Angel before adding these two fish with the pre-obtained Koi > > > (female). Your description of these procedings makes perfect sense > > > now, and I'd have to guess that the Silver Angel is somewhat smaller > > > and younger than the Koi. The Koi was a real home-wrecker, huh? LOL. > > > It's no surprise though, in the least, that the Marble was > > > originally paired up with the Silver, with the Koi (large female) > > > overpowering the Silver to succeed at finally pairing up with the > > > Marble. I figured the strength of the Koi (and ONLY this fish's > > > strength) had everything to do with the present bonding situation. > > > > > > A natural selection behavior I've come to learn, of years of > > > observing this species is that -- In an environment of mixed > > > domestic Angelfish color strains in the presence of the wild type > > > (your Silver Angel is considered as close to wild type as possible), > > > the first choice for pair bonding of ANY of the domestic color > > > strains will ALWAYS and INEVITABLY be with the wild form before ANY > > > OTHER color form present - and that includes a possible choice of a > > > same color form. The ONLY reason why your Marble is now paired up > > > with the Koi is that the Silver was overpowered by this stronger > > > (and quite determined) female Koi. Contrary to what some hobbyists > > > prefer to think, Angelfish will select a different mate when the > > > situation is advantageous to them; they do not necessarily pair up > for life (unless the hobbyist > > > maintains them as such). > > > > > > This too comes as little surprise, as the second choice of ANY pair > > > bonding in domestic color forms of Angelfish is almost ALWAYS (and > > > just as INEVITABLY) a mate of THE SAME color strain, followed close > > > behind but only after the same color -- a mate having at least some > > > of the genes as does the pairing mate. I would say "ALAWYS" here > > > too, rather than "almost ALWAYS" as I've never observed any other > > > behavior, but there's usually at least one different situation > somewhere. > > > Actually, these two last pairings are mutual choices of both > > > partners. In your case, your calico (tri-color, w/black included) > > > Koi has Marble in its genes as Gold Marble is used as one of the > > > fish to develop calico Koi. > > > > > > In the pairing of the wild form in the presence of only domestically > > > developed color strains, ALL of the domestic Angels of opposite sex > > > from the wild form will first be attracted to the wild form before > > > any other choices are considered by them. It will be the choice of > > > the wild form to accept whichever domestic Angel best suits it out > > > of all potential mates. > > > > > > Wish I could fill you in more on the marking (and pimple-like > > > growth) on the Silver Angel. As there is a growth opposite the > > > pigmentation, I'm more inclined to believe it's more than just a > > > marking too, even though I can't see the raised area well. The > > > first impression is that it could be a melanoma, but it's too > > > immature at this point for me to diagnose it as such (and hopefully, > > > I'm completely wrong on that). As long as it doesn't get much > > > worse, I can't see cause to be concerned about it at this point -- > > > as long as it's not bothering the fish. It would serve little > > > purpose anyway to be concerned since we don't know what we're > > > dealing with. As it has made an appearance though, you can only > > > expect it to grow over time -- hopefully slowly and not too soon > > > detrimental to the fish's health. If, by chance, it doesn't grow so > > > much the better. Keep us posted if you see a noticeable change. > > > Ray > > > > > > > > > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>, "Jasmine" <adonaikam@> wrote: > > > > > > > > Hi Ray. > > > > > > > > I might add â€" I found it extremely hard falling asleep last > night â€" > > > was thinking about the angelfishes, then again â€" it could have > > > been the irritant of my coughing keeping me awake (I have a cold > at present). > > > > > > > > The funny thing is, the Kio has been with us the longest. We felt > > > bad that it was on its own and have been keeping an eye out for a > > > nice match for it but decided to get two mature angels which looked > > > like they had paired off (which was the marble and silver female) > > > and 4 baby angels to keep them all company. > > > > > > > > Once we introduced them into the main tank, the Kio took to the > > > marble and chased the silver female away â€" it was so strange to > see. > > > We have seen the female Kio and female Silver in lip tugger-ward > twice. > > > > > > > > I don't believe it is just a black dot on the female silver. The > > > > is > > > a slight curvature in the location of the dot but because it keeps > > > getting chased, it doesn't stay still long enough to obtain a good > > > shot. I'm not going to worry too much about it at present as it > > > doesn't seem to be doing the fish any harm. > > > > > > > > Jasmine > > > > > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>, "Raymond Wetzel" > > > <sevenspringss@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > Back again Jasmine, Looks like I was writing my last reply to > > > > > you > > > as you were send these last 4 pics and this message. I just now > > > approved your latest pics, then looked them over. Yep, the "exiled" > > > Silver Angel IS a female, as I first thought. BTW, did you happen > > > to add this fish after you already had the pair (Marble & Koi)? > > > > > > > > > > I had a look at the area you circled on this fish, and if it > > > > > were > > > just a marking as that triangle-shaped spots appears to be on the > > > one side, I'd say that, that's ALL it is, since today's mixed traits > > > can be expected to show an odd spot here and there at times. But if > > > it's protruding out the other side, it would seem to be some sort of > > > a growth. My older monitor does not show the protrusion well enough > > > for me to see it well. Couldn't tell you what it is, and it would > > > be premature at this stage for me to say it's some kind of internal > > > parasite, but it is odd. Unless someone else can diagnose it, I > > > wouldn't tell you to try to treat it -- it's just good that it's not > > > bothering the fish. You might keep an eye on it, but still, without > > > knowing the cause there's little you could do for it if it protrudes > > > more -- unless it manifests itself as a pimple which you could then > > > use a needle for, along with a topical antibiotic. Ray > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>, "Jasmine" <adonaikam@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > Hi Ray > > > > > > > > > > > > I've managed to get two shots of the 'exiled' angel (right > > > profile and left profile). > > > > > > > > > > > > It certainly doesn't have the same 'hump' on its head as the > > > male you pointed out. I always thought the hump may have been part > > > of the type of angel it was - silly me. > > > > > > > > > > > > Several weeks ago we happen to notice that this same angel has > > > > > > a > > > black pimple like mark - see photo titled 'Exiled angel_03 23.06.09'. > > > This black mark looks like it is protruding out of the other side of > > > the fish - see 'Exiled angel_02 23.06.09'. The mark doesn't seem to > > > be causing any problems but I'm sure it has grown slightly since we > > > first noticed it about 2 months ago. It really reminds me of a > > > black head pimple. > > > > > > > > > > > > I can't get a good shot of that area on the angel (as it hides > > > most of the time). When we get our other tank set up, the eco > > > system all ready and the paired off angels transferred into that > > > tank - I might be able to get a better shot then. > > > > > > > > > > > > Thanks again for you help and advice. > > > > > > Jasmine > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 41398	From: Youth Opportunities	Date: 6/25/2009
Subject: Examples of Clearing house for Ornamental Fish

I am seeking online examples of a clearing house for the export of ornamental fish. Can anyone point me in the right direction.   Thanks [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 41399	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 6/25/2009
Subject: Re: Tap water Baseline testing

I'm not sure why the GH test says "0-3 is 0-50ppm". Other GH test kits, where they use the number of drops until it changes color testing format usually works on the principle of each drop represents 1 dH so two drops would be 2 dH (with each dH being equal to 17.9ppm or round it up to 18ppm for simplicity). I'm not sure how they could even have "0" since if you didn't add any drops, how would you know? LOL Someone needs to write API with my question about 0 drops. Of course, if the test kit changes color after only one drop, that would mean that the level is between 0-1 dH (or 0-18ppm). I'm not sure how they could say 3 drops could still be 0ppm (which is what their "0-3 is 0-50ppm" would interpret to). Double check your instructions and maybe even use the "Contact Us" form on API's website, http://www.aquariumpharm.com to verify that you are reading things right. They've always replied to me pretty quickly when I've contacted them in the past. Reviewing your initial results, your pH has gone up from 6.5 to 6.8 and your GH has gone down from 100ppm (How many drops was that first test? I'm guessing 5-6? You only posted 100ppm.) down to 36ppm (2 dH x 17.9ppm = 35.8pppm rounded up to 36ppm). I can't help you much with the iron, phosphate and calcium test results and how they equate to good or bad amounts. These articles on "Chuck's Planted Tank Pages" should help though... "Introduction To Fertilizers In A Planted Tank" http://www.csd.net/~cgadd/aqua/art_plant_fertilizer_intro.htm and "Nutrient Deficiencies In A Planted Tank" http://www.csd.net/~cgadd/aqua/art_plant_nutrient.htm Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Amber Berglund Sent: Thursday, June 25, 2009 1:30 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Tap water Baseline testing Okay tonights tests 48 hours pH: 6.8 still Ammonia: 0 Nitrite: 0 Nitrate: 0 GH: 2 drops, the chart says 0-3 is 0-50 ppm, so my guess 33 ppm? KH: again 1 drop, so under 18 ppm as Lenny pointed out ;) I got the phosphate test kit tonight, going to run that test too, and I have the calcium test kit as well, might as well run one of those ;) LOL Calcium: 20 ppm, that seems very low... which I figured. Weird test kit for the phosphate, it's by Red Sea... I prefer API but it had high reviews. Results came back somewhere between 0 and .1... so I have very little phosphate in my tap water, at least after 48 hours ;) LOL Going to test the 55 gallon next to see what it's sitting at. Phosphate for the 55 gallon community tank that's been having algae issues is: inbetween .5 and 1ppm. Is that bad? Amber Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > > > When I wrote that article a while back, using my water as the "test" > water, > after 48 hours, things didn't really change any more that I could see > on the test results. There may have been minute changes but nothing > noticeable with API test kits. Of course, I don't remember if I had a > GH or KH test kit back then since I was mainly interested in how much > ammonia was freed up when the chloramine broke down and also how much > the pH might have changed. > I know I have hard water so I never really worried KH and GH test results. > > In your case, since you saw a change in the GH test results after 24 > hours, it wouldn't hurt to go three days. Just keep them dang dirty > pawed pets out the bucket. ;-) > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> (Links to any articles referenced in > above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels > and also under Archives by Year, Month) > > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On Behalf Of Amber Berglund > Sent: Wednesday, June 24, 2009 5:21 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Tap water Baseline testing > > I didn't have a spare pump or anything to put into the bucket to move > water, so should I wait another day on the tests to be safe or will > that matter? > I'm not dabbling in changing, it's just a bucket of water ;) LOL. I > would like to figure out how much crushed coral I will need to add to > the tank though, once the baseline tests are done. > > Amber > > bill 1433 wrote: > > > > > > > > If your dabbling in adjusting or changing your water parameters at > > all, 48 hours among tests would be about right. But considerations > > must be given to all filtration and water movement throughout the > > tank. Obviously, the more or higher the movement, the easier it is > > to adjust and monitor. > > > > Bill > > > > --- On Wed, 6/24/09, Amber Berglund <amber@... > <mailto:amber%40rose-fields.com> > > <mailto:amber%40rose-fields.com>> wrote: > > > > From: Amber Berglund <amber@... > <mailto:amber%40rose-fields.com> > > <mailto:amber%40rose-fields.com>> > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Tap water Baseline testing > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > Date: Wednesday, June 24, 2009, 11:03 AM > > > > I had a feeling I knew what you were asking without saying it, LOL. > > I purchased the API master test kit first, then when I set up the > > walstad tank I got the GH and KH test kit so I could add coral to > > the tank and watch the GH and KH at the same time. > > I got API test kits just because I'm already familiar with them and > > figured it would be the easiest way to go ;) I'm curious to see what > > my pH is going to be tonight... Should I go over > > 48 hours on testing or is that plenty? > > > > Amber > > > > bill 1433 wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > Hi Amber, > > > > > > You already knew what I was getting at! Wanted to see if the GH > > > and KH were in your Master Test Kit or an extra purchase. > > > > > > Bill > > > > > > --- On Tue, 6/23/09, Amber Berglund <amber@... > <mailto:amber%40rose-fields.com> > > <mailto:amber%40rose-fields.com> > > > <mailto:amber%40rose-fields.com>> wrote: > > > > > > > From: Amber Berglund <amber@... > <mailto:amber%40rose-fields.com> > > <mailto:amber%40rose-fields.com> > > > <mailto:amber%40rose-fields.com>> > > > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Tap water Baseline testing > > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > Date: Tuesday, June 23, 2009, 11:06 PM API master test kit and > > > > extra API test kits for GH and KH, everything is API. > > > > > > > > Amber > > > > > > > > bill 1433 wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Amber, > > > > > > > > > > If you don't mind? The name or manufacture of > > > > the test kit your using > > > > > please? > > > > > > > > > > Bill > > > > > > > > > > --- On Tue, 6/23/09, Amber Berglund <amber@... > <mailto:amber%40rose-fields.com> > > <mailto:amber%40rose-fields.com> > > > <mailto:amber%40rose-fields.com> > > > > > > > > > <mailto:amber%40rose-fields.com>> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > From: Amber Berglund <amber@... > <mailto:amber%40rose-fields.com> > > <mailto:amber%40rose-fields.com> > > > <mailto:amber%40rose-fields.com> > > > > > > > > > <mailto:amber%40rose-fields.com>> > > > > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Tap water Baseline testing > > > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > Date: Tuesday, June 23, 2009, 9:58 PM > > > > > > > > > > Tapwater baseline testing 24 hours > > > > > > > > > > pH: 6.8 > > > > > > > > > > Ammonia: 0 > > > > > Nitrite: 0 > > > > > Nitrate: 0 > > > > > GH: 50 ppm > > > > > KH:1 drop, or close to 0 ppm again

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 41400	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 6/25/2009
Subject: Re: Flourish products

http://www.SeaChem.com makes LOTS of common products for aquarium. Most are good... some are not, IMO. Here's the list of Flourish products http://www.seachem.com/Products/product_pages/Flourish.html and an explanation of each. As with most bottle chemicals available at a store, DO NOT use them until you've done a LOT of research and you know how they will affect the ecosystem and chemistry in your tank. Many bottled products advertise themselves to do a LOT more than they can actually do... kind of like most stuff out there. While occasionally, a bottled product will sometimes be needed (such as a dechlor product), IT'S NOT GOOD TO START ADDING ALL KINDS OF OTHER CRAP TO OUR FISH TANKS. They are closed ecosystems and each added chemical goes a little further towards turning a fish tank into a chemical dump site. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Jasmine Sent: Thursday, June 25, 2009 6:20 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Flourish products I've never heard of any of these. What is it? --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, Amber Berglund <amber@...> wrote: > > Does anyone out there use more than just flourish excel for their fish > tanks? > I got several of the products to see if they will make a difference in > my 55 gallon for the potted plants that aren't doing so spiffy. I > haven't tried any of them except the excel yet. > I got: > Flourish > Flourish trace > Flourish potassium > Flourish excel > Flourish iron > > Anything special that anyone wants to point out before I use any of > these products? (besides the flourish excel which I'm already using in > my 55 gallon community tank). > > Amber

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 41401	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 6/25/2009
Subject: Re: Angels

I use to love the Cave Men commercial series. That even led to them getting their own TV series but it was short lived.... I think just a couple of episodes. The shows are probably available online somewhere. Of course, the Gecko commercial series has been pretty good too. My first car insurance was with GEICO, of course, back then, it was only available to folks that fit within the Acronym that makes up their name (Government Employees Insurance COmpany) and my dad still worked for the Federal Guv'ment back then. I'm not sure when GEICO became available to the general public... but Wiki has some info on it. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/GEICO "... In the 1970s, under Kreeger's leadership, GEICO began to insure the general public, after real-time access to computerized driving records became available throughout the United States...." so actually, GEICO was probably available to everyone even when I got my first insurance auto insurance... if the Wiki article is accurate. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of bill 1433 Sent: Thursday, June 25, 2009 6:46 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: Angels Are you also doing the "Geico" commericals? <large g> ol'bill --- On Thu, 6/25/09, Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@...> wrote: From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@...> Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: Angels To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Date: Thursday, June 25, 2009, 5:51 AM That's the difference between guys and chicks... Amber looked at your pics and mentioned the "pretty Angel's" and I looked at your pics and talked about the UV Filter System and Uncle Wormie's bush-farm pics. ;-)  UGH, UGH!... me man, you woman! Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Jasmine Sent: Thursday, June 25, 2009 4:20 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Angels Thank you Amber --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, Amber Berglund <amber@...> wrote: > > They're in the group folders under "Jasmine" I believe... She has some > very pretty Angel's. > > Amber > > bill 1433 wrote: > > > > > > > > Hi Jasmine, > >  > > I have been following along here but missed a link?  Can you help?  > > Where are these pictures you posted or under what folder? Can you > > give a link? > >  > > Bill > > > > --- On Wed, 6/24/09, Raymond Wetzel <sevenspringss@... > > <mailto:sevenspringss%40wmconnect.com>> wrote: > > > > From: Raymond Wetzel <sevenspringss@... > > <mailto:sevenspringss%40wmconnect.com>> > > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Angels > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > Date: Wednesday, June 24, 2009, 8:40 AM > > > > Hi Jasmine,  Looks like you guys were really talking it up last > > night at the same time, and after, I was writing my last post.  As > > this was one of the messages being generated while I was composing, > > I'll start here.  Hope your cold is better -- I'm just getting rid > > of mine, but its been a real rough stretch of days from just before > > the past weekend, as I was hit with a double-wammy (chest & nasal) > > cold that left me BEAT.  Much better today, but it's still lingering. > > > > You might note, by my question on this, that it's no surprise that > > your Angels WERE bought at different times, as I well knew from your > > picture of these procedings.  What I couldn't know though, was that > > the Marble (male) was originally paired up with the Silver (female) > > Angel before adding these two fish with the pre-obtained Koi > > (female).  Your description of these procedings makes perfect sense > > now, and I'd have to guess that the Silver Angel is somewhat smaller > > and younger than the Koi.  The Koi was a real home-wrecker, huh? LOL. > > It's no surprise though, in the least, that the Marble was > > originally paired up with the Silver, with the Koi (large female) > > overpowering the Silver to succeed at finally pairing up with the > > Marble.  I figured the strength of the Koi (and ONLY this fish's > > strength) had everything to do with the present bonding situation. > > > > A natural selection behavior I've come to learn, of years of > > observing this species is that -- In an environment of mixed > > domestic Angelfish color strains in the presence of the wild type > > (your Silver Angel is considered as close to wild type as possible), > > the first choice for pair bonding of ANY of the domestic color > > strains will ALWAYS and INEVITABLY be with the wild form before ANY > > OTHER color form present - and that includes a possible choice of a > > same color form.  The ONLY reason why your Marble is now paired up > > with the Koi is that the Silver was overpowered by this stronger > > (and quite determined) female Koi.  Contrary to what some hobbyists > > prefer to think, Angelfish will select a different mate when the > > situation is advantageous to them; they do not necessarily pair up for life (unless the hobbyist > > maintains them as such).    > > > > This too comes as little surprise, as the second choice of ANY pair > > bonding in domestic color forms of Angelfish is almost ALWAYS (and > > just as INEVITABLY) a mate of THE SAME color strain, followed close > > behind but only after the same color -- a mate having at least some > > of the genes as does the pairing mate.  I would say "ALAWYS" here > > too, rather than "almost ALWAYS" as I've never observed any other > > behavior, but there's usually at least one different situation somewhere. > > Actually, these two last pairings are mutual choices of both > > partners.  In your case, your calico (tri-color, w/black included) > > Koi has Marble in its genes as Gold Marble is used as one of the > > fish to develop calico Koi. > > > > In the pairing of the wild form in the presence of only domestically > > developed color strains, ALL of the domestic Angels of opposite sex > > from the wild form will first be attracted to the wild form before > > any other choices are considered by them.  It will be the choice of > > the wild form to accept whichever domestic Angel best suits it out > > of all potential mates. > > > > Wish I could fill you in more on the marking (and pimple-like > > growth) on the Silver Angel.  As there is a growth opposite the > > pigmentation, I'm more inclined to believe it's more than just a > > marking too, even though I can't see the raised area well.  The > > first impression is that it could be a melanoma, but it's too > > immature at this point for me to diagnose it as such (and hopefully, > > I'm completely wrong on that).  As long as it doesn't get much > > worse, I can't see cause to be concerned about it at this point -- > > as long as it's not bothering the fish.  It would serve little > > purpose anyway to be concerned since we don't know what we're > > dealing with.  As it has made an appearance though, you can only > > expect it to grow over time -- hopefully slowly and not too soon > > detrimental to the fish's health.  If, by chance, it doesn't grow so > > much the better.  Keep us posted if you see a noticeable change.  > > Ray > > > >  > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>, "Jasmine" <adonaikam@> wrote: > > > > > > Hi Ray. > > > > > > I might add â€" I found it extremely hard falling asleep last night â€" > > was thinking about the angelfishes, then again â€" it could have > > been the irritant of my coughing keeping me awake (I have a cold at present). > > > > > > The funny thing is, the Kio has been with us the longest.  We felt > > bad that it was on its own and have been keeping an eye out for a > > nice match for it but decided to get two mature angels which looked > > like they had paired off (which was the marble and silver female) > > and 4 baby angels to keep them all company. > > > > > > Once we introduced them into the main tank, the Kio took to the > > marble and chased the silver female away â€" it was so strange to see.  > > We have seen the female Kio and female Silver in lip tugger-ward twice. > > > > > > I don't believe it is just a black dot on the female silver.  The > > > is > > a slight curvature in the location of the dot but because it keeps > > getting chased, it doesn't stay still long enough to obtain a good > > shot.  I'm not going to worry too much about it at present as it > > doesn't seem to be doing the fish any harm. > > > > > > Jasmine > > > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>, "Raymond Wetzel" > > <sevenspringss@> wrote: > > > > > > > > Back again Jasmine,  Looks like I was writing my last reply to > > > > you > > as you were send these last 4 pics and this message.  I just now > > approved your latest pics, then looked them over.  Yep, the "exiled" > > Silver Angel IS a female, as I first thought.  BTW, did you happen > > to add this fish after you already had the pair (Marble & Koi)? > > > > > > > > I had a look at the area you circled on this fish, and if it > > > > were > > just a marking as that triangle-shaped spots appears to be on the > > one side, I'd say that, that's ALL it is, since today's mixed traits > > can be expected to show an odd spot here and there at times.  But if > > it's protruding out the other side, it would seem to be some sort of > > a growth.  My older monitor does not show the protrusion well enough > > for me to see it well.  Couldn't tell you what it is, and it would > > be premature at this stage for me to say it's some kind of internal > > parasite, but it is odd.  Unless someone else can diagnose it, I > > wouldn't tell you to try to treat it -- it's just good that it's not > > bothering the fish.  You might keep an eye on it, but still, without > > knowing the cause there's little you could do for it if it protrudes > > more -- unless it manifests itself as a pimple which you could then > > use a needle for, along with a topical antibiotic.  Ray > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>, "Jasmine" <adonaikam@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > Hi Ray > > > > > > > > > > I've managed to get two shots of the 'exiled' angel (right > > profile and left profile). > > > > > > > > > > It certainly doesn't have the same 'hump' on its head as the > > male you pointed out.  I always thought the hump may have been part > > of the type of angel it was - silly me. > > > > > > > > > > Several weeks ago we happen to notice that this same angel has > > > > > a > > black pimple like mark - see photo titled 'Exiled angel_03 23.06.09'.  > > This black mark looks like it is protruding out of the other side of > > the fish - see 'Exiled angel_02 23.06.09'.  The mark doesn't seem to > > be causing any problems but I'm sure it has grown slightly since we > > first noticed it about 2 months ago.  It really reminds me of a > > black head pimple. > > > > > > > > > > I can't get a good shot of that area on the angel (as it hides > > most of the time).  When we get our other tank set up, the eco > > system all ready and the paired off angels transferred into that > > tank - I might be able to get a better shot then. > > > > > > > > > > Thanks again for you help and advice. > > > > > Jasmine ------------------------------------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the home page.  Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com to receive the digest, which includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com for the No E-Mail option where you will still be able to read messages on the group and post replies. Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com to receive individual e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links ------------------------------------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. `..><((((>.`..`.><((((> .`.. , .`..><((((> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <((((><.`..`.<((((><.`.. , .`..<((((><`.. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the home page. Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com to receive the digest, which includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com for the No E-Mail option where you will still be able to read messages on the group and post replies. Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com to receive individual e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 41402	From: Philip Charles	Date: 6/25/2009
Subject: Algae

What is the best way to remove minor green algae from a acrylic tank with out scratching it? Philip [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 41403	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 6/25/2009
Subject: Re: Angels

While UV filtration is OK to use on a tank from time to time, under certain situations, like treating a water column (bad) bacterial or parasitic issue, I do not think they should be run full time. There are many thousands of microscopic critters in your tank that make up the complete ecosystem and the start of the food chain. UV filters kill off many, if not most of these microbes, thereby taking away a BIG part of the ecosystem of an aquarium (or pond). Here's an article of "Critters" in our tanks. http://microscopy-uk.org.uk/index.html?http://microscopy-uk.org.uk/pond/inde x.html The best two pages I had (a two page article) on critters seems to be lost forever... well not quite... read on. The last couple of times I've tried to access their site, it seems to be down. Here are the links. They were VERY GOOD articles. http://www.menunkatuck.org/pages/micro.htm http://www.menunkatuck.org/pages/micro2.htm I need to go to the Internet Archive Wayback Machine and find the links to the archived copies of those two pages or anyone can use this internet resource http://www.archive.org/web/web.php Here are the new links to those pages that no longer exist on the original website. http://web.archive.org/web/20070523055718/http://www.menunkatuck.org/pages/m icro.htm http://web.archive.org/web/20060716164019/http://www.menunkatuck.org/pages/m icro2.htm This article also has some info but not as good as the above articles. http://www.caudata.org/cc/articles/Tank_critters.shtml Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Jasmine Sent: Thursday, June 25, 2009 6:51 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Angels I do have a proper filter system in place. This is just to kill the bacteria - here is a bit of a blur about the UV purifier. The proper name is "UView Aquarium purifier" it polishes water with the power of the sun. • Crystal clear water • No more algae or bacteria in water • Natural cleansing, chemical free • Healthier water, healthier fish • Freshwater or marine environments • For aquariums up to 200 litres. I still have the box and it reads – Our unique purifier uses low wattage UV radiation to kill all water borne algae, bacteria and pathogens passing through the filter. Used alongside your regular filter it will give you continuous clean, crystal clear water. This also improves fish health and well being and aids the introduction of new fish. *some persistent algae may still grow on the tank, plants and ornaments and may need to be wiped off occasionally. I've found one site that has a mention (not much of a mention though) http://www.aquaticlifeaquariums.com.au/index1.html What is does is, it take in the tank water through a sponge (that requires cleaning about every 3 weeks). The water passes through UV light which destroys bacteria and passes filtration water back into the tank ever so gently. --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@...> wrote: > > Go to the main group's website photo album section, > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife/photos. Once there, you can > sort the album folders in many ways. If referring to recently > uploaded photos, the simplest way, which I use, is on the top right, > click the link for "Last Modified" which will sort the albums by the > most recently modified. Then click on the album by name if there are > more than one that was recently modified. The link to the Jasmine > album is > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife/photos/album/114176089/pic/l > ist > > On a side note, I checked out your other photos and I see your UV Filtration Rod (and Uncle Wormie's pics...LOL), as you referred to it in this or another thread. I'm not sure that "UV Filtration Rod" would be the proper term for that piece of equipment. That appears to be an in-tank UV filter system with it's own pump (square section with suction cups) and the gray oval section, with a wire going into the top is likely the UV light housing. I see what looks to be an intake on one side of that, with some filter padding to keep big stuff out of it, and then the top inverted-L tube is the discharge tube... right? Since it looks like it takes in water that would be coming across the back of the tank, I would point the inverted-L discharge tube in the opposite direction to create a circular water flow. I'm sure you have other filtration/circulation as well so maybe those other sources gives you adequate flow to make sure ALL water eventually gets sucked into the UV filter. I actually kind of like that system as it's compact and portable so it can be moved from tank to tank with ease and just suction cups onto the glass. Do you have a manufacturers name and/or model number? Oh yeah.. make sure you clean that filter padding on the intake on a regular basis to ensure a proper water flow rate. > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles > referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically > under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) > > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] > On Behalf Of Jasmine > Sent: Thursday, June 25, 2009 4:18 AM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Angels > > Hi Bill > > The photos are under the 'Jasmine' folder but I'm unsure how to send you a link to them. > > Can anyone please explain to me how to do this and I can send Bill the link to the photos. > > Thanks > > Jasmine > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, bill 1433 <warrenprint@> wrote: > > > > > > Hi Jasmine, > >  > > I have been following along here but missed a link? Can you help? Where are these pictures you posted or under what folder? Can you give a link? > >  > > Bill > > > > --- On Wed, 6/24/09, Raymond Wetzel <sevenspringss@> wrote: > > > > > > From: Raymond Wetzel <sevenspringss@> > > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Angels > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > Date: Wednesday, June 24, 2009, 8:40 AM > > > > > > Hi Jasmine, Looks like you guys were really talking it up last night at the same time, and after, I was writing my last post. As this was one of the messages being generated while I was composing, I'll start here. Hope your cold is better -- I'm just getting rid of mine, but its been a real rough stretch of days from just before the past weekend, as I was hit with a double-wammy (chest & nasal) cold that left me BEAT. Much better today, but it's still lingering. > > > > You might note, by my question on this, that it's no surprise that your Angels WERE bought at different times, as I well knew from your picture of these procedings. What I couldn't know though, was that the Marble (male) was originally paired up with the Silver (female) Angel before adding these two fish with the pre-obtained Koi (female). Your description of these procedings makes perfect sense now, and I'd have to guess that the Silver Angel is somewhat smaller and younger than the Koi. The Koi was a real home-wrecker, huh? LOL. It's no surprise though, in the least, that the Marble was originally paired up with the Silver, with the Koi (large female) overpowering the Silver to succeed at finally pairing up with the Marble. I figured the strength of the Koi (and ONLY this fish's strength) had everything to do with the present bonding situation. > > > > A natural selection behavior I've come to learn, of years of > > observing this species is that -- In an environment of mixed > > domestic Angelfish color strains in the presence of the wild type > > (your Silver Angel is considered as close to wild type as possible), > > the first choice for pair bonding of ANY of the domestic color > > strains will ALWAYS and INEVITABLY be with the wild form before ANY > > OTHER color form present - and that includes a possible choice of a > > same color form. The ONLY reason why your Marble is now paired up > > with the Koi is that the Silver was overpowered by this stronger > > (and quite determined) female Koi. Contrary to what some > > hobbyists prefer to think, Angelfish will select a different mate > > when the situation is advantageous to them; they do not necessarily > > pair up for life (unless the hobbyist maintains them as such).  > > > > This too comes as little surprise, as the second choice of ANY pair > > bonding in domestic color forms of Angelfish is almost ALWAYS (and > > just as INEVITABLY) a mate of THE SAME color strain, followed close > > behind but only after the same color -- a mate having at least some > > of the genes as does the pairing mate. I would say "ALAWYS" here > > too, rather than "almost ALWAYS" as I've never observed any other > > behavior, but there's usually at least one different situation > > somewhere. Actually, these two last pairings are mutual choices of > > both partners. In your case, your calico (tri-color, w/black > > included) Koi has Marble in its genes as Gold Marble is used as one > > of the fish to develop calico Koi. > > > > In the pairing of the wild form in the presence of only domestically developed color strains, ALL of the domestic Angels of opposite sex from the wild form will first be attracted to the wild form before any other choices are considered by them. It will be the choice of the wild form to accept whichever domestic Angel best suits it out of all potential mates. > > > > Wish I could fill you in more on the marking (and pimple-like > > growth) on the Silver Angel. As there is a growth opposite the > > pigmentation, I'm more inclined to believe it's more than just a > > marking too, even though I can't see the raised area well. The > > first impression is that it could be a melanoma, but it's too > > immature at this point for me to diagnose it as such (and hopefully, > > I'm completely wrong on that). As long as it doesn't get much > > worse, I can't see cause to be concerned about it at this point -- > > as long as it's not bothering the fish. It would serve little > > purpose anyway to be concerned since we don't know what we're > > dealing with. As it has made an appearance though, you can only > > expect it to grow over time -- hopefully slowly and not too soon > > detrimental to the fish's health. If, by chance, it doesn't grow > > so much the better. Keep us posted if you see a noticeable > > change. Ray > > > >  > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Jasmine" <adonaikam@> wrote: > > > > > > Hi Ray. > > > > > > I might add â€" I found it extremely hard falling asleep last night â€" was thinking about the angelfishes, then again â€" it could have been the irritant of my coughing keeping me awake (I have a cold at present). > > > > > > The funny thing is, the Kio has been with us the longest. We felt bad that it was on its own and have been keeping an eye out for a nice match for it but decided to get two mature angels which looked like they had paired off (which was the marble and silver female) and 4 baby angels to keep them all company. > > > > > > Once we introduced them into the main tank, the Kio took to the marble and chased the silver female away â€" it was so strange to see. We have seen the female Kio and female Silver in lip tugger-ward twice. > > > > > > I don't believe it is just a black dot on the female silver. The is a slight curvature in the location of the dot but because it keeps getting chased, it doesn't stay still long enough to obtain a good shot. I'm not going to worry too much about it at present as it doesn't seem to be doing the fish any harm. > > > > > > Jasmine > > > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Raymond Wetzel" <sevenspringss@> wrote: > > > > > > > > Back again Jasmine, Looks like I was writing my last reply to you as you were send these last 4 pics and this message. I just now approved your latest pics, then looked them over. Yep, the "exiled" Silver Angel IS a female, as I first thought. BTW, did you happen to add this fish after you already had the pair (Marble & Koi)? > > > > > > > > I had a look at the area you circled on this fish, and if it > > > > were just a marking as that triangle-shaped spots appears to be > > > > on the one side, I'd say that, that's ALL it is, since today's > > > > mixed traits can be expected to show an odd spot here and there > > > > at times. But if it's protruding out the other side, it would > > > > seem to be some sort of a growth. My older monitor does not > > > > show the protrusion well enough for me to see it well. > > > > Couldn't tell you what it is, and it would be premature at this > > > > stage for me to say it's some kind of internal parasite, but it > > > > is odd. Unless someone else can diagnose it, I wouldn't tell > > > > you to try to treat it -- it's just good that it's not bothering > > > > the fish. You might keep an eye on it, but still, without > > > > knowing the cause there's little you could do for it if it > > > > protrudes more -- unless it manifests itself as a pimple which > > > > you could then use a needle for, along with a topical > > > > antibiotic. Ray > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Jasmine" <adonaikam@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > Hi Ray > > > > > > > > > > I've managed to get two shots of the 'exiled' angel (right profile and left profile). > > > > > > > > > > It certainly doesn't have the same 'hump' on its head as the male you pointed out. I always thought the hump may have been part of the type of angel it was - silly me. > > > > > > > > > > Several weeks ago we happen to notice that this same angel has a black pimple like mark - see photo titled 'Exiled angel_03 23.06.09'. This black mark looks like it is protruding out of the other side of the fish - see 'Exiled angel_02 23.06.09'. The mark doesn't seem to be causing any problems but I'm sure it has grown slightly since we first noticed it about 2 months ago. It really reminds me of a black head pimple. > > > > > > > > > > I can't get a good shot of that area on the angel (as it hides most of the time). When we get our other tank set up, the eco system all ready and the paired off angels transferred into that tank - I might be able to get a better shot then. > > > > > > > > > > Thanks again for you help and advice. > > > > > Jasmine > ------------------------------------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the home page. Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com to receive the digest, which includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com for the No E-Mail option where you will still be able to read messages on the group and post replies. Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com to receive individual e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 41404	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 6/25/2009
Subject: Re: Angels Please help???

Actually, Cycling a tank is an exact and very precise science. Yes, it can take different time frames for the Nitrogen Cycle to complete itself but it can still be tested along the way so you know exactly what is happening. Setting up a tank and just running it without fish for a day, a month or a year, will do absolutely NOTHING to Cycle it. You have to add ammonia to the tank to start the cycling process. When you added 5-6 angelfish to the empty tank (that was set up for 2 months), the angelfish started putting out ammonia (via urine and gill function). This is called "Cycling With Fish" and is NOT the best way to do things. You would have to test your water daily and whenever the ammonia reached a level where it starts to become dangerous to the fish, you would have to do a PWC (partial water change) or series of PWC's to lower the ammonia level. Then the next day, repeat the process for around 6-8 weeks until you are no longer seeing ammonia or nitrites. "Cycling with Fish" and "Fishless Cycling" are explained in more detail on my "A To Z Of Fishkeeping" page (see my blog link in my sig). While Ray very well could be correct about the cause of your dying angelfish, they could also be succumbing to ammonia poisoning in their weakened state after being shipped, then sold, then bagged, then moved to a new aquarium, all of which stress fish out and lower their immune systems, making them more likely to contract the disease that Ray talked about but also making them more susceptible to other disease issues and/or the ammonia poisoning. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Joellen & Kevin Analla Sent: Thursday, June 25, 2009 9:27 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: Angels Please help??? Well as I know there isno exact amount of time for a tank to cycle it has been set up for at least 2 mo. and before i put angels in it i tested amonia and it was ok. The amonia levels have raised only since the fish have been dieing. Well yesterday i did a partial water change to try and lower amonia levels. I have yet to test it this morning to see if it helped. Jo --- On Thu, 6/25/09, Raymond Wetzel <sevenspringss@...> wrote: From: Raymond Wetzel <sevenspringss@...> Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Angels Please help??? To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Date: Thursday, June 25, 2009, 9:59 AM Hi Amber, Going with everything I read of Jo's postings on the scenario of this whole situation, yes, I can only conclude with a good deal of certainty that here fish are dying as a result of this infection. This terrible disease was prevalent some 15 to 20 years ago, first eminating, then spreading friom the Far East. While I've lived through this period and have experienced this whole sequence of events day to day of the hobby being so adversely affected by this disease, this is not my reason for my coming to this conclusion. Devastating as it was, I am not an alarmist. Others here, who may never have heard of this disease (or who may have, but think this is now past history), cannot know that this disease still survives today in Angelfish from Angelfish stocks still being produced in those areas (Asia & Florida) where the disease originated and then was most prevalent. This disease was never conquered. The Far Eastern Angelfish breeders were never completely wiped out (even though extremely affected by hugh losses) to the point that they started back completely fresh with completely all new stock. The Angelfish stock that they were left with, that finally survived the onslaught due to their immunity system finally coping with this disease is the same stock they continued with -- now a necessarily stronger breeder stock for them and the Florida fish farmers, in that they have a higher immune system to be able to deal with this virus that co-exists with them in their systems. However, even though the juveniles from this stock (possibly the 4th or 5th generation by now, from when this first started) are expose to this virus early on in their lives -- their immune systems having to have built up against this disease as they grew to selling size -- the stress of shipping when combined with the constant battle of their immune systems having to deal with this ever-present virus in their systems (due to its ongoing presence in their environment) is just too much for them to endure. The influences of both stresses soon take their toll, manifested as losses within 6 or 7 days for most of the stock that were subjected to the stress of shipping. Any other Angels that seemingly were not quite as affected/stressed by shipping immediately may live a short while later, but by this time the virus is now overpowering their immune system to the point of eventually (often within the month) killing them. Obviously, introducing any Angels in with these infected fish during this time of them living in limbo is to be subjecting these new Angels to a disease they've never seen and have no defence at all for, with the inevitable loss of them as well. The infected environment is just as deadly to any new Angels, even without the presence of infected fish, until this environment is disinfected. This disease still persists today -- it has never been irradiacated and is an unfortunate situation for an unsuspecting hobbyist who has no previous knowledge of it, when they buy such fish from those sources (like Walmart) which persist in selling them only because these fish are the lowest price their management can find to contract with. It's a very dangerous situation. Now, getting back to these other points you've brought up, which need addressing. While, as \\Steve// says, ideally no ammonia should be permitted to exist, and while Jo's ammonia level of 1.0 ppm does certainly appear to be the direct result of an uncycled tank (since ammonia has shown to build up in her tank from 0.0 ppm to 1.0 ppm, yet is not being converted to nitrite) still, with Jo's ph at between 6.5 (original post) and 6.6 (follow-up post) any and all Ammonia would be in the form or relatively harmless Ammonium -- not affecting the Angelfish detrimentally in the least -- so we can rule this out, if that's what you need done. I cannot condone the use of buffers to lower the pH either, and again go right along with \\Steve// on this. Not only as it's not at all needed (especially in this situation of maintaining Angelfish) but can lead to serious consequences such as unstable pH levels and/or even possible pH crashes as \\Steve// points out. Still, I see no evidence of Jo having to add any additional amounts of pH buffer between PWC's because of the buffer being exhausted, nor have I seen any high pH level readings, although there still may have been some between PWC's, which may not have been tested for. Likewise, I have fortunately not seen evidence of a pH crash, nor any possible cause for pH shock as a result of such a crash. Jo's methods of acclimating may leave more to be desired even though the concept is correct as, unless she has not given a full description, this tank water introduction to the bucket containing the fish does seem to be too abbreviated. Full acclimation requires more than one or two cups of new water over a period of 15 minutes (as I seem to perceive from her post), but it's possible she may just not have gone into the repetition of this procedure. In all, with taking into consideration all possible negative points you've brought up and needed to have addressed, or that \\Steve// or I could think of to be ruled out, I cannot see where any of these other possibilities could enter into consideration -- especially when realizing that these deaths were not a one-time occurance, but have repeatedly happened with each numerous addition of new Angelfish in the many attempts to introduce them to her tank. One might be able to say that in isolated incidences, that a certain batch of Angelfish may have been pH-shocked, or that another batch of Angelfish may have been inadvertantly subjected to lethal levels of ammonia at some point -- which appears quite remote, even if I'm reaching for straws -- but when repeated batches of Angelfish die for no other apparent reason there is a pattern that develops which to me has no other answer than this Virus by what is occurring -- when looking at all other details involved in this picture. I've seen it too many times to not ignore it, nor mistake it for anything else. Ray --- In AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com, Amber Berglund <amber@...> wrote: > > Ray are you sure that his fish are dying to this infection rather than > dying from ammonia poisoning from an uncycled tank? Not to mention he > used a pH adjusting buffer to lower his pH... > This might just be a lack of experience too I would think it's > possible at least. We should at least rule those out before rushing > into thinking it's a serious problem right from the bat (the Angelfish infection). > > Amber > > Raymond Wetzel wrote: > > > > > > By your post, it appears that you've taken the time to read over my > > message on the topic, so you could finally understand it -- which I > > appreciate your doing, as it will only benefit yourself. Your two > > remaining Angelfish stand a better chance of dying a premature > > death, and that death may come even sooner than later. I have seen > > other hobbyists maintaining a few remnant Angels from such origins > > after the rest of the original stocks of them had perished, only to > > pass on within the following month (or two, at the latest). You may > > try to return these two Angels for store credit, if they'll allow > > it, but otherwise, you'd need to keep only these two until something > > happens to them. > > > > To add any Angelfish from other sources to these two Angelfish, > > would be to subject them to an infection that they have no immunity > > for, with the inevitable results of their dying from this, and quite fast. > > If you want more Angels, and if you want healthy Angels, there is no > > other choice than to put them in a clean, disinfected tank that > > you're sure does not contain any disease -- which requires that > > these two Angelfish no longer inhabit this tank, one way or another. > > > > IF there is a better way (and I know of no other way), I would be > > more than pleased to tell you. As for knowing that a fish will be > > okay, I can only tell you this -- that I, nor anyone else, cannot > > say with 100% certainty that your two remaining Angelfish are not > > okay -- it's impossible for me to be able to do that from where I am > > (not within reach of your fish) or without the benefit of a slide > > smear of this fish's waste to evaluate under the microscope. But ALL > > things you've related about these fish and their deceased siblings, > > including their source, the suddenness of their demise and the > > repetition of these same circumstances spells out for me with enough > > certainty with all I've experienced and learned of this very > > disease, that this is indeed the dreaded fatal pathogen that has > > plagued Angelfish ongoing from a quarter century ago. > > > > I could choose to see your Angelfish loses as just the chance > > results of poorer than required water conditions combined with your > > possible inexperience with them and the luck of the draw along with > > the inevitableness of young Angels dying en-mass for unexplained > > reasons not unrelated to your general lack of aquarium knowledge at > > this stage of the game -- as some here may be suggesting -- but to > > do so would be to go against everything I've learned about Angelfish > > in 62 years of working with them, and living through the horrid > > period of decimation of these fish through the spread of this Virus. > > > > I've seen many, many cases of this virus striking Angelfish and have > > known many Angelfish breeders who were effected by the devastation > > of it and the experiences they've gone through during the peak > > period when this Virus was at its worst. > > > > AND . . . > > > > I have seen in TODAY's WORLD, the EXACT same thing as you are > > describing happening to you, of Angelfish being sold by Walmart (and > > others) which are infected by this virus and which have been > > dropping otherwise unexplainedly like flies -- INCLUDING having one > > or two fish temporarily survive this onslault only to died within > > the following month. I DO NOT think this is all coincidental. My > > brother (who had yet to learn of this disease) experienced the VERY > > things with young Angelfish he recently bought from Walmart a couple > > of months ago, amost word for word. In his case, his lone surviving > > Angel lasted another 3 weeks after the first ones died -- and he > > knows about keeping fish properly. Many of my customers (fish store > > owners who purchase my Angelfish) have told me of the quality of > > Angelfish (and the Virus they still carry) they've bought in the > > recent past from both Florida and directly from the Far East that > > just fold up on them within a week's time, often resulting in > > complete losses -- the unaccounted for ones having already been sold > > prior to the end of the week. These sources and the Angelfish Virus > > they promote through selling infected fish are still notorious for > > spreading this disease with the help of unknowing dealers and hobbyists even today. > > > > Of course, you do not need to believe me, but then it would be folly > > to continue in the manner you're attempting to add Angelfish to your > > tank in hopes they'll survive. For all we know though, without > > having your two Angelfish analyzed, they may be the healthiest > > Angels on earth -- But I wouldn't want to bet the farm on it! > > > > I suggested to you what needs to be done to succeed. You may follow > > this advice, or you may ignore it -- that's your decision. When > > buying from a different source, a reputable breeder who has reliably > > supplied quality disease-free Angelfish for many years simply cannot > > afford to risk selling diseased Angelfish, and still have his > > business and reputation survive. IF contemplating buying from such a > > known and reputable dealer, you need to make sure whom you are dealing with. > > There are many reputable Angelfish breeders in existance, but with > > your not having the experience to know which are the better ones, > > you may not know yet who to buy from with confidence. I WILL tell > > you that you can't expect to pay Walmart prices and still get good > > fish. A lot of work goes into raising these Angelfish and as a > > result these breeders will (need) to charge more, but a good breeder > > will be fair > > -- he does not need to price-gouge. If you're still following up on > > this, and need further advise, there are a number of people here who > > can best assist you with recommending breeders of quality Angels. I > > can start by wholeheartedly recommending Steve Rybicki of Angels > > Plus as one whom I can vouch for selling disease-free Angelfish; > > Steve's been in the business for at least 25 years. Ray > > > > --- In AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com <mailto:AquaticLife > > %40yahoogroups. com>, Joellen & Kevin Analla <anallafamily. 2001@> > > wrote: > > > > > > So basically what your saying is that all fish in tank (2Angels) > > must die then i need to disinfect all equipment then start all over > > buying from a different source but theres no garanteen that even a > > differant source could still get infected in that case i would have > > to repeat process agian......Really isnt there a better way, or even > > a way of knowing that fish will be ok . > > > > > > --- On Wed, 6/24/09, Raymond Wetzel <sevenspringss@ > wrote: > > > > > > > > > From: Raymond Wetzel <sevenspringss@ > > > > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Angels Please help??? > > > To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com <mailto:AquaticLife > > > %40yahoogroups. com> > > > Date: Wednesday, June 24, 2009, 1:33 AM > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Hello Jo, So sorry you are running into this frustrating > > > experience > > in trying to keep Angelfish, when the species is not difficult to > > maintain. Ordinarily, we would ask just what you meant (and will > > still do this) when you say that your water is all testing okay. > > When giving us any of your data concerning your water parameters, we > > prefer to have number to be evaluate your circumstances, and the > > actual test results in ppm (parts per million) best reflect your > > actual conditions. If you could give us your test results for pH, > > ammonia, nitrite and even nitrate, it could be a great help. If you > > can provide results for temporary hardness (KH) and total/general > > hardness (GH), this may be of further assistance to us -- the more > > information, the better. BUT, in this particular case, I do not > > believe it's your water quality that's at fault, even though we need to rule that out. > > > > > > Most unfortunately, new prospective Angelfish hobbyists will run > > into this situation when buying from retailers who prefer obtaining > > their Angelfish stocks indiscriminantly, possibly in an effort to > > save money or perhaps just for the convenience. However, in buying > > in essence what can be established as inferior stock, I fail to see > > what they think they gain. Unfortunately too, the customer (you) is > > too often unsuspecting of this possibility and blame the deaths of > > these fish on themselves, when in truth it's the poor stock itself > > that these outlets continue to retail -- despite the many losses > > they themselves have with each re-stocking. > > > > > > These retailers know that they will not be alienating their > > customers, as these customers are completely unaware that this stock > > is inferior, and in their quest to maintain this beautiful species, > > they repeatedly buy new stock in hopes they can keep them alive. > > Some of the larger chain stores (and some smaller shops) operate in > > this manner, Walmart having been one of them until they gave up > > selling tropical fish; these stores continuing to buy their Angels > > only from preferred sources which may include a headquarter- > > -designated distributor, a Florida fish farm, a local wholesaler > > that buys from either Florida or the Far East, or a Far East > > breeding establishment- -exporter -- rather than a reputable domestic breeder. > > > > > > Now, getting to the root of this practice and its problem. Going > > back some 15 years or slightly more, there was a major outbreak of a > > horrific Angelfish Virus disease originating in the Far East, > > decimating Angelfish stocks there as well as in this country when it > > was introduced here through imports of that stock into this country. > > Many domestic Angelfish breeders in this country were wiped out or > > at least partially effected, not suspecting this problem, and mixed > > that stock with theirs. The problem didn't stop there in this > > country as a good number of the Florida fish farmers also introduced > > this diseased Asian stock of Angelfish to their hatcheries in > > efforts to strengthen their own stocks with "new blood," not yet > > knowing the consequences they would have to pay. > > > > > > Gradually, this disease was finally contained although never > > completely cured. Those Asian stocks that survived were strengthened > > by natural selection to be able to remain viable while still > > carrying th Virus as a latent disease always present but under > > control of these latest Angelfish's adapted immune systems. This > > same adaptation of the Angelfish's immune system to contain this > > Virus as of late, also emerged from those Florida fish farm's stocks > > which were similarly effected. > > > > > > As a result, most any Angelfish derived today from either those > > effected Florida fish farms or those Far Eastern hatchery/exporters > > carry this Virus as a weaker (as controlled now by these Angels' new > > but limited immunity), yet still viable disease still capable of > > overtaking the Angelfish as soon as receieves enough stress. This > > shared (but not mutually beneficial where the fish is concerned) > > existance is called "symbiosis," and is seen also in many Cichlids > > -- including Angelfish -- as Hexamita, where this protozoan resides > > in a latent condition in the fish's intestine, only to overtake the > > fish when the fish experiences sufficient stress for it to do so. > > > > > > So, now when these Angelfish (carrying this disease) reach your > > local fish store, they look fine at first and appear most healthy. > > However, the stress of shipping soon takes its toll over the next > > week as the disease now devastates these stressed and weakened fish. > > These fish are not expected to last much more than an average of 6 > > or 7 days as a result of what happens with them. Likewise, many > > (most?) of the same fish in these stores that stock them soon die > > also (they are KNOWN to fold up), but the storekeeper has still made > > his profit and has "satisfied" his customers, which causes them to > > keep coming back to those stores. > > > > > > If any of this rings a bell for you, you may finally be > > understanding what's happening with your Angelfish. A few, such as > > the two you have that survived so far will live for an undetermined > > period of time, but their days are still numbered (could live for > > another few weeks or so). If you still want to keep Angelfish, you > > cannot continue to buy them from this present source as they'll meet > > the same fate, nor can you add any other Angelfish to this tank from > > a different source as they'll become infected. I really hate to have > > to suggest this, and I don't know if you have any other species of > > fish presently in this tank, but before you add any more Angels -- > > and they MUST be from a reputable domestic breeder -- this tank and > > all its equipment must be disinfected after these two remaining > > Angels secumb. I hope this whole scenario of events as pertains to > > Angelfish has been at least enlightening for you, and will serve to > > assist you in the future (we'll > > > still be here to help). I regret that since you most probably have > > introduced disease-carrying Angelfish unknowingly, that you'll have > > a long road ahead of you in maintaining your goal, but at least now > > you know what to expect. Please keep us posted, Ray > > > > > > --- In AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com, "anallafamily. 2001" > > <anallafamily. 2001@> wrote: > > > > > > > > I'm new to the group so just let me know if I say or do > > > > something > > not right...... > > > > My Question.... I wanted to start up an angel tank so I have a > > 55gal set up.. I keep buying 5 angels at a time and they keep dying > > slowly but surely.. I think altogether I have bought 16 Angels and I > > have managed to get 2 to live for at least 6 days now. I have plenty > > of filtration and water flow, I have ph at 6.5 and water is all > > testing ok... So what am I doing wrong? and should I go get more > > since I got 2 to live uhhhhhh What do I do I feel like I want to > > give up but I really thought they were such a beautiful fish. > > > > Please Help Jo..

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 41405	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 6/25/2009
Subject: Re: Examples of Clearing house for Ornamental Fish

What do you mean by a "clearing house"? What country are you in that you want to export them and where did you want to import them into? Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Youth Opportunities Sent: Thursday, June 25, 2009 10:32 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Examples of Clearing house for Ornamental Fish I am seeking online examples of a clearing house for the export of ornamental fish. Can anyone point me in the right direction.   Thanks

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 41406	From: janis_chrystal	Date: 6/25/2009
Subject: Baby Catfish

our catfish had babies, we do not know how many.....do we put them in baby net? We have 2 cory catfish obvious male and female and 1 tetra. Is it safe for the babies to be in the tank as is????? Thanks Jan

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 41407	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 6/25/2009
Subject: Re: Algae

They make plastic algae scrapers that are safe for acrylic tanks (or an old credit card will work). I have this one... http://www.petsmart.com/product/index.jsp?productId=2752314. Instead of the citrus based cleaning clothes, I use a cut square off of a microfiber rag and poke the ends into the plastic holders (like the swiffer heads have) and use that after using the plastic scraper first to get rid of the bigger stuff. Then polish/clean the glass with the microfiber afterwards. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Philip Charles Sent: Thursday, June 25, 2009 12:49 PM To: aquatic Life Subject: [AquaticLife] Algae What is the best way to remove minor green algae from a acrylic tank with out scratching it? Philip

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 41408	From: bill 1433	Date: 6/25/2009
Subject: Re: Algae

Hi Phil, I have always found just a plain, clean wash cloth with a bit of nap to be best. As you wipe, near the bottom close to gravel or coral, be careful not to pick up any small pieces. They will scratch even a glass aquarium.   Bill --- On Thu, 6/25/09, Philip Charles <alone29784@...> wrote: > From: Philip Charles <alone29784@...> > Subject: [AquaticLife] Algae > To: "aquatic Life" <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com> > Date: Thursday, June 25, 2009, 1:48 PM > What is the best way to remove minor > green algae from a acrylic tank with out scratching it? > Philip > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > ------------------------------------ > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when > replying, Thank You. > ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> > ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> > PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is > NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of > the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new > subject (was re: old subject)" <- > <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. > , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. > > If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of > unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by > clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the home page.  > > Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com > to receive the digest, which includes up to 25 posts at a > time in a single email > > Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com > for the No E-Mail option where you will still be able to > read messages on the group and post replies. > > Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com > to receive individual e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links > > >     mailto:AquaticLife-fullfeatured@yahoogroups.com > > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 41409	From: bill 1433	Date: 6/25/2009
Subject: Re: Baby Catfish

You did not say? How big is the tank? Bill --- On Thu, 6/25/09, janis_chrystal <jan1213@...> wrote: > From: janis_chrystal <jan1213@...> > Subject: [AquaticLife] Baby Catfish > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Date: Thursday, June 25, 2009, 2:18 PM > our catfish had babies, we do not > know how many.....do we put them in baby net? We have 2 cory > catfish obvious male and female and 1 tetra. Is it safe for > the babies to be in the tank as > is?????   Thanks  Jan > > > > ------------------------------------ > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when > replying, Thank You. > ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> > ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> > PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is > NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of > the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new > subject (was re: old subject)" <- > <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. > , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. > > If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of > unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by > clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the home page.  > > Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com > to receive the digest, which includes up to 25 posts at a > time in a single email > > Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com > for the No E-Mail option where you will still be able to > read messages on the group and post replies. > > Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com > to receive individual e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links > > >     mailto:AquaticLife-fullfeatured@yahoogroups.com > > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 41410	From: jan1213@aol.com	Date: 6/25/2009
Subject: Re: Baby Catfish

46gal, but we are going to set up a 20 and transfer them in that soon, we want to rid that tank of snails In a message dated 6/25/2009 2:39:33 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time, warrenprint@... writes: You did not say? How big is the tank? Bill --- On Thu, 6/25/09, janis_chrystal <_jan1213@..._ (mailto:jan1213@...) > wrote: > From: janis_chrystal <_jan1213@..._ (mailto:jan1213@...) > > Subject: [AquaticLife] Baby Catfish > To: _AquaticLife@AquaticLife@Aqu_ (mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com) > Date: Thursday, June 25, 2009, 2:18 PM > our catfish had babies, we do not > know how many.....do we put them in baby net? We have 2 cory > catfish obvious male and female and 1 tetra. Is it safe for > the babies to be in the tank as > is????? Thanks Jan > > > > ------------ ---- ---- - > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when > replying, Thank You. > ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> > ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> > PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is > NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of > the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new > subject (was re: old subject)" <- > <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. > , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. > > If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of > unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by > clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the home page. > > Or e-mail _aquaticlife-aquaticlife-<WBRaquati_ (mailto:aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com) > to receive the digest, which includes up to 25 posts at a > time in a single email > > Or email _aquaticlife-aquaticlife-<WBRaquati_ (mailto:aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com) > for the No E-Mail option where you will still be able to > read messages on the group and post replies. > > Or email _aquaticlife-aquaticlife-<WBRaquati_ (mailto:aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com) > to receive individual e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links > > > mailto:_AquaticLife-AquaticLife-AquaticLife-Aqu_ (mailto:AquaticLife-fullfeatured@yahoogroups.com) > > > **************Shop Popular Dell Laptops now starting at $349! (http://pr.atwola.com/promoclk/100126575x1222031056x1201446063/aol?redir=http:%2F%2Fad.dou bleclick.net%2Fclk%3B215910283%3B38350812%3Ba) [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 41411	From: bill 1433	Date: 6/25/2009
Subject: Re: Baby Catfish

you should not have any problems. Bill --- On Thu, 6/25/09, jan1213@... <jan1213@...> wrote: > From: jan1213@... <jan1213@...> > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Baby Catfish > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Date: Thursday, June 25, 2009, 3:00 PM > 46gal, but we are going to set up a > 20 and transfer them in that soon, we  > want to rid that tank of snails > > > In a message dated 6/25/2009 2:39:33 P.M. Eastern Daylight > Time,  > warrenprint@... > writes: > > > > > > > You did not say? How big is the tank? > > Bill > > --- On Thu,  6/25/09, janis_chrystal <_jan1213@..._ > > (mailto:jan1213@...) > >  wrote: > > > From: janis_chrystal <_jan1213@..._ > (mailto:jan1213@...) > > > > Subject:  [AquaticLife] Baby Catfish > > To: _AquaticLife@AquaticLife@Aqu_ (mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com) > > >  Date: Thursday, June 25, 2009, 2:18 PM > > our catfish had babies, we do  not > > know how many.....do we put them in baby net? We have > 2  cory > > catfish obvious male and female and 1 tetra. Is it > safe  for > > the babies to be in the tank as > >  is?????   Thanks  Jan > > > > > > > >  ------------  ----  ----  - > > > > Please,  DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it > when > > replying, Thank  You. > >  > ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> > >  ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , > .·´¯`·..><((((º> > > PLEASE, when you REPLY to a  post, DELETE all > TEXT that is > > NOT important to the reply & if  CHANGING the > TOPIC of > > the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE  > -> i.e. "new > > subject (was re: old subject)" <- > >  > <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. > > ,  .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. > > We Thank You in Advance for Your  HELP in this > matter. > > > > If you do not want all of the groups  emails, > instead of > > unsubscribing, you can change your delivery > option  by > > clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the home > page.  > >  > > Or e-mail _aquaticlife-aquaticlife-<WBRaquati_ > (mailto:aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com) > > >  to receive the digest, which includes up to 25 > posts at a > > time in a  single email > > > > Or email _aquaticlife-aquaticlife-<WBRaquati_ > (mailto:aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com) > > >  for the No E-Mail option where you will still be > able to > > read messages  on the group and post replies. > > > > Or email _aquaticlife-aquaticlife-<WBRaquati_ > (mailto:aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com) > > >  to receive individual e-mails.Yahoo! Groups > Links > > > > > >  mailto:_AquaticLife-AquaticLife-AquaticLife-Aqu_ > > (mailto:AquaticLife-fullfeatured@yahoogroups.com) > > >  > > > > > > > > > > **************Shop Popular Dell Laptops now starting at > $349! > (http://pr.atwola.com/promoclk/100126575x1222031056x1201446063/aol?redir=http:%2F%2Fad.dou > bleclick.net%2Fclk%3B215910283%3B38350812%3Ba) > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > ------------------------------------ > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when > replying, Thank You. > ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> > ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> > PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is > NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of > the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new > subject (was re: old subject)" <- > <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. > , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. > > If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of > unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by > clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the home page.  > > Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com > to receive the digest, which includes up to 25 posts at a > time in a single email > > Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com > for the No E-Mail option where you will still be able to > read messages on the group and post replies. > > Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com > to receive individual e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links > > >     mailto:AquaticLife-fullfeatured@yahoogroups.com > > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 41413	From: jan1213@aol.com	Date: 6/25/2009
Subject: Re: Baby Catfish

thanks In a message dated 6/25/2009 3:47:09 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time, warrenprint@... writes: you should not have any problems. Bill --- On Thu, 6/25/09, _jan1213@..._ (mailto:jan1213@...) <_jan1213@..._ (mailto:jan1213@...) > wrote: > From: _jan1213@..._ (mailto:jan1213@...) <_jan1213@..._ (mailto:jan1213@...) > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Baby Catfish > To: _AquaticLife@AquaticLife@Aqu_ (mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com) > Date: Thursday, June 25, 2009, 3:00 PM > 46gal, but we are going to set up a > 20 and transfer them in that soon, we > want to rid that tank of snails > > > In a message dated 6/25/2009 2:39:33 P.M. Eastern Daylight > Time, > _warrenprint@warrenpri_ (mailto:warrenprint@...) > writes: > > > > > > > You did not say? How big is the tank? > > Bill > > --- On Thu, 6/25/09, janis_chrystal <__jan1213@aol._ja_ (mailto:_jan1213@...) _ > > (mailto:_jan1213@..._ (mailto:jan1213@...) ) > > wrote: > > > From: janis_chrystal <__jan1213@aol._ja_ (mailto:_jan1213@...) _ > (mailto:_jan1213@..._ (mailto:jan1213@...) ) > > > > Subject: [AquaticLife] Baby Catfish > > To: _AquaticLife@ To: _Aq To: _Aqu_AquaticLife@AquaticLife@Aqu_ (mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com) ) > > > Date: Thursday, June 25, 2009, 2:18 PM > > our catfish had babies, we do not > > know how many.....do we put them in baby net? We have > 2 cory > > catfish obvious male and female and 1 tetra. Is it > safe for > > the babies to be in the tank as > > is????? Thanks Jan > > > > > > > > ------------ ---- ---- - > > > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it > when > > replying, Thank You. > > > ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> > > ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , > .·´¯`·..><((((º> > > PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all > TEXT that is > > NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the > TOPIC of > > the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE > -> i.e. "new > > subject (was re: old subject)" <- > > > <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. > > , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. > > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this > matter. > > > > If you do not want all of the groups emails, > instead of > > unsubscribing, you can change your delivery > option by > > clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the home > page. > > > > Or e-mail _aquaticlife- Or e-mail <WBRaquati_ > (mailto:_aquaticlife-aquaticlife-<WBRaquati_ (mailto:aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com) ) > > > to receive the digest, which includes up to 25 > posts at a > > time in a single email > > > > Or email _aquaticlife- Or email _a<WBRaquati_ > (mailto:_aquaticlife-aquaticlife-<WBRaquati_ (mailto:aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com) ) > > > for the No E-Mail option where you will still be > able to > > read messages on the group and post replies. > > > > Or email _aquaticlife- Or email <WBRaquati_ > (mailto:_aquaticlife-aquaticlife-<WBRaquati_ (mailto:aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com) ) > > > to receive individual e-mails.Yahoo! Groups > Links > > > > > > mailto:_AquaticLife mailto:_ mailto: > > (mailto:_AquaticLife-AquaticLife-AquaticLife-Aqu_ (mailto:AquaticLife-fullfeatured@yahoogroups.com) ) > > > > > > > > > > > > > ************ ************<WBR>**Shop Popular Dell Laptops n > $349! > (_http://pr.atwola.http://pr.atwhttp://pr.atwolahttp://pr.atwolahttp://pr.http://prhttp://p_ (http://pr.atwola.com/promoclk/100126575x1222031056x1201446063/aol?redir=http://ad.dou) > bleclick.net% bleclick.ne bleclick > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > ------------ ---- ---- - > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when > replying, Thank You. > ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> > ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> > PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is > NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of > the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new > subject (was re: old subject)" <- > <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. > , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. > > If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of > unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by > clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the home page. > > Or e-mail _aquaticlife-aquaticlife-<WBRaquati_ (mailto:aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com) > to receive the digest, which includes up to 25 posts at a > time in a single email > > Or email _aquaticlife-aquaticlife-<WBRaquati_ (mailto:aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com) > for the No E-Mail option where you will still be able to > read messages on the group and post replies. > > Or email _aquaticlife-aquaticlife-<WBRaquati_ (mailto:aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com) > to receive individual e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links > > > mailto:_AquaticLife-AquaticLife-AquaticLife-Aqu_ (mailto:AquaticLife-fullfeatured@yahoogroups.com) > > > **************Shop Popular Dell Laptops now starting at $349! (http://pr.atwola.com/promoclk/100126575x1222031056x1201446063/aol?redir=http:%2F%2Fad.dou bleclick.net%2Fclk%3B215910283%3B38350812%3Ba) [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 41414	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 6/25/2009
Subject: Re: Tap water Baseline testing

The first GH test was 6 drops, correct, which was 3-6 = 50-100, so I figured it was 100ppm ;) They really do have odd instructions, I agree, it should start at 1 drop not 0 drops, lol. I don't have an iron test kit, just calcium and phosphate. I think I have too much phosphate though, that's my guess though ;) LOL. Will check out the links, thanks, Amber Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > > > I'm not sure why the GH test says "0-3 is 0-50ppm". Other GH test kits, > where they use the number of drops until it changes color testing format > usually works on the principle of each drop represents 1 dH so two drops > would be 2 dH (with each dH being equal to 17.9ppm or round it up to 18ppm > for simplicity). I'm not sure how they could even have "0" since if you > didn't add any drops, how would you know? LOL Someone needs to write API > with my question about 0 drops. Of course, if the test kit changes color > after only one drop, that would mean that the level is between 0-1 dH (or > 0-18ppm). I'm not sure how they could say 3 drops could still be 0ppm > (which is what their "0-3 is 0-50ppm" would interpret to). Double check > your instructions and maybe even use the "Contact Us" form on API's > website, > http://www.aquariumpharm.com <http://www.aquariumpharm.com> to verify > that you are reading things right. > They've always replied to me pretty quickly when I've contacted them > in the > past. > > Reviewing your initial results, your pH has gone up from 6.5 to 6.8 > and your > GH has gone down from 100ppm (How many drops was that first test? I'm > guessing 5-6? You only posted 100ppm.) down to 36ppm (2 dH x 17.9ppm = > 35.8pppm rounded up to 36ppm). I can't help you much with the iron, > phosphate and calcium test results and how they equate to good or bad > amounts. > > These articles on "Chuck's Planted Tank Pages" should help though... > "Introduction To Fertilizers In A Planted Tank" > http://www.csd.net/~cgadd/aqua/art_plant_fertilizer_intro.htm > <http://www.csd.net/%7Ecgadd/aqua/art_plant_fertilizer_intro.htm> > and "Nutrient Deficiencies In A Planted Tank" > http://www.csd.net/~cgadd/aqua/art_plant_nutrient.htm > <http://www.csd.net/%7Ecgadd/aqua/art_plant_nutrient.htm> > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right > side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On > Behalf Of Amber Berglund > Sent: Thursday, June 25, 2009 1:30 AM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Tap water Baseline testing > > Okay tonights tests 48 hours > > pH: 6.8 still > Ammonia: 0 > Nitrite: 0 > Nitrate: 0 > GH: 2 drops, the chart says 0-3 is 0-50 ppm, so my guess 33 ppm? > KH: again 1 drop, so under 18 ppm as Lenny pointed out ;) I got the > phosphate test kit tonight, going to run that test too, and I have the > calcium test kit as well, might as well run one of those ;) LOL > Calcium: 20 ppm, that seems very low... which I figured. > Weird test kit for the phosphate, it's by Red Sea... I prefer API but > it had > high reviews. > Results came back somewhere between 0 and .1... so I have very little > phosphate in my tap water, at least after 48 hours ;) LOL Going to > test the > 55 gallon next to see what it's sitting at. > Phosphate for the 55 gallon community tank that's been having algae issues > is: inbetween .5 and 1ppm. Is that bad? > > Amber > > Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > > > > > > When I wrote that article a while back, using my water as the "test" > > water, > > after 48 hours, things didn't really change any more that I could see > > on the test results. There may have been minute changes but nothing > > noticeable with API test kits. Of course, I don't remember if I had a > > GH or KH test kit back then since I was mainly interested in how much > > ammonia was freed up when the chloramine broke down and also how much > > the pH might have changed. > > I know I have hard water so I never really worried KH and GH test > results. > > > > In your case, since you saw a change in the GH test results after 24 > > hours, it wouldn't hurt to go three days. Just keep them dang dirty > > pawed pets out the bucket. ;-) > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>> > (Links to any articles referenced in > > above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels > > and also under Archives by Year, Month) > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On Behalf Of Amber Berglund > > Sent: Wednesday, June 24, 2009 5:21 PM > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Tap water Baseline testing > > > > I didn't have a spare pump or anything to put into the bucket to move > > water, so should I wait another day on the tests to be safe or will > > that matter? > > I'm not dabbling in changing, it's just a bucket of water ;) LOL. I > > would like to figure out how much crushed coral I will need to add to > > the tank though, once the baseline tests are done. > > > > Amber > > > > bill 1433 wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > If your dabbling in adjusting or changing your water parameters at > > > all, 48 hours among tests would be about right. But considerations > > > must be given to all filtration and water movement throughout the > > > tank. Obviously, the more or higher the movement, the easier it is > > > to adjust and monitor. > > > > > > Bill > > > > > > --- On Wed, 6/24/09, Amber Berglund <amber@... > <mailto:amber%40rose-fields.com> > > <mailto:amber%40rose-fields.com> > > > <mailto:amber%40rose-fields.com>> wrote: > > > > > > From: Amber Berglund <amber@... > <mailto:amber%40rose-fields.com> > > <mailto:amber%40rose-fields.com> > > > <mailto:amber%40rose-fields.com>> > > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Tap water Baseline testing > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > Date: Wednesday, June 24, 2009, 11:03 AM > > > > > > I had a feeling I knew what you were asking without saying it, LOL. > > > I purchased the API master test kit first, then when I set up the > > > walstad tank I got the GH and KH test kit so I could add coral to > > > the tank and watch the GH and KH at the same time. > > > I got API test kits just because I'm already familiar with them and > > > figured it would be the easiest way to go ;) I'm curious to see what > > > my pH is going to be tonight... Should I go over > > > 48 hours on testing or is that plenty? > > > > > > Amber > > > > > > bill 1433 wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Hi Amber, > > > > > > > > You already knew what I was getting at! Wanted to see if the GH > > > > and KH were in your Master Test Kit or an extra purchase. > > > > > > > > Bill > > > > > > > > --- On Tue, 6/23/09, Amber Berglund <amber@... > <mailto:amber%40rose-fields.com> > > <mailto:amber%40rose-fields.com> > > > <mailto:amber%40rose-fields.com> > > > > <mailto:amber%40rose-fields.com>> wrote: > > > > > > > > > From: Amber Berglund <amber@... > <mailto:amber%40rose-fields.com> > > <mailto:amber%40rose-fields.com> > > > <mailto:amber%40rose-fields.com> > > > > <mailto:amber%40rose-fields.com>> > > > > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Tap water Baseline testing > > > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > Date: Tuesday, June 23, 2009, 11:06 PM API master test kit and > > > > > extra API test kits for GH and KH, everything is API. > > > > > > > > > > Amber > > > > > > > > > > bill 1433 wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Amber, > > > > > > > > > > > > If you don't mind? The name or manufacture of > > > > > the test kit your using > > > > > > please? > > > > > > > > > > > > Bill > > > > > > > > > > > > --- On Tue, 6/23/09, Amber Berglund <amber@... > <mailto:amber%40rose-fields.com> > > <mailto:amber%40rose-fields.com> > > > <mailto:amber%40rose-fields.com> > > > > <mailto:amber%40rose-fields.com> > > > > > > > > > > > <mailto:amber%40rose-fields.com>> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > From: Amber Berglund <amber@... > <mailto:amber%40rose-fields.com> > > <mailto:amber%40rose-fields.com> > > > <mailto:amber%40rose-fields.com> > > > > <mailto:amber%40rose-fields.com> > > > > > > > > > > > <mailto:amber%40rose-fields.com>> > > > > > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Tap water Baseline testing > > > > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > Date: Tuesday, June 23, 2009, 9:58 PM > > > > > > > > > > > > Tapwater baseline testing 24 hours > > > > > > > > > > > > pH: 6.8 > > > > > > > > > > > > Ammonia: 0 > > > > > > Nitrite: 0 > > > > > > Nitrate: 0 > > > > > > GH: 50 ppm > > > > > > KH:1 drop, or close to 0 ppm again > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 41415	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 6/25/2009
Subject: Re: Flourish products

I've looked at the seachem site previously to see if I could find more info than I already had, but didn't find anything new. I dosed the tank yesterday with the new flourish products, they are not an every day dose, the bottle says twice a week. Honestly I prefer the ease of the walstad tanks, I'm tempted to tear this tank down and make it a walstad tank in the future. Amber Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > > > http://www.SeaChem.com <http://www.SeaChem.com> makes LOTS of common > products for aquarium. Most are > good... some are not, IMO. Here's the list of Flourish products > http://www.seachem.com/Products/product_pages/Flourish.html > <http://www.seachem.com/Products/product_pages/Flourish.html> and an > explanation of each. > > As with most bottle chemicals available at a store, DO NOT use them until > you've done a LOT of research and you know how they will affect the > ecosystem and chemistry in your tank. Many bottled products advertise > themselves to do a LOT more than they can actually do... kind of like most > stuff out there. > > While occasionally, a bottled product will sometimes be needed (such as a > dechlor product), IT'S NOT GOOD TO START ADDING ALL KINDS OF OTHER CRAP TO > OUR FISH TANKS. They are closed ecosystems and each added chemical goes a > little further towards turning a fish tank into a chemical dump site. > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right > side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On > Behalf Of Jasmine > Sent: Thursday, June 25, 2009 6:20 AM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Flourish products > > I've never heard of any of these. > What is it? > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>, Amber Berglund <amber@...> wrote: > > > > Does anyone out there use more than just flourish excel for their fish > > tanks? > > I got several of the products to see if they will make a difference in > > my 55 gallon for the potted plants that aren't doing so spiffy. I > > haven't tried any of them except the excel yet. > > I got: > > Flourish > > Flourish trace > > Flourish potassium > > Flourish excel > > Flourish iron > > > > Anything special that anyone wants to point out before I use any of > > these products? (besides the flourish excel which I'm already using in > > my 55 gallon community tank). > > > > Amber > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 41416	From: biG poppa	Date: 6/25/2009
Subject: Re: Flourish products

I was teached long time ago by and old Discuss breeder that all you need to feed your plants is seachem Flourish in your tank and this person has a 300g planted discuss tank --- On Thu, 6/25/09, Amber Berglund <amber@...> wrote: From: Amber Berglund <amber@...> Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: Flourish products To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Date: Thursday, June 25, 2009, 6:09 PM I've looked at the seachem site previously to see if I could find more info than I already had, but didn't find anything new. I dosed the tank yesterday with the new flourish products, they are not an every day dose, the bottle says twice a week. Honestly I prefer the ease of the walstad tanks, I'm tempted to tear this tank down and make it a walstad tank in the future. Amber Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > > > http://www.SeaChem. com <http://www.SeaChem. com> makes LOTS of common > products for aquarium. Most are > good... some are not, IMO. Here's the list of Flourish products > http://www.seachem. com/Products/ product_pages/ Flourish. html > <http://www.seachem. com/Products/ product_pages/ Flourish. html> and an > explanation of each. > > As with most bottle chemicals available at a store, DO NOT use them until > you've done a LOT of research and you know how they will affect the > ecosystem and chemistry in your tank. Many bottled products advertise > themselves to do a LOT more than they can actually do... kind of like most > stuff out there. > > While occasionally, a bottled product will sometimes be needed (such as a > dechlor product), IT'S NOT GOOD TO START ADDING ALL KINDS OF OTHER CRAP TO > OUR FISH TANKS. They are closed ecosystems and each added chemical goes a > little further towards turning a fish tank into a chemical dump site. > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com <http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com> > (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right > side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com > <mailto:AquaticLife %40yahoogroups. com> > [mailto:AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com > <mailto:AquaticLife %40yahoogroups. com>] On > Behalf Of Jasmine > Sent: Thursday, June 25, 2009 6:20 AM > To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com <mailto:AquaticLife %40yahoogroups. com> > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Flourish products > > I've never heard of any of these. > What is it? > > --- In AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com > <mailto:AquaticLife %40yahoogroups. com>, Amber Berglund <amber@...> wrote: > > > > Does anyone out there use more than just flourish excel for their fish > > tanks? > > I got several of the products to see if they will make a difference in > > my 55 gallon for the potted plants that aren't doing so spiffy. I > > haven't tried any of them except the excel yet. > > I got: > > Flourish > > Flourish trace > > Flourish potassium > > Flourish excel > > Flourish iron > > > > Anything special that anyone wants to point out before I use any of > > these products? (besides the flourish excel which I'm already using in > > my 55 gallon community tank). > > > > Amber > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 41417	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 6/25/2009
Subject: 55 gallon community tank

I tested my 55 gallon community tank today to see how the KH and GH are since I keep chunks of coral in the tank, well apparently the coral isn't breaking down fast enough so there's only 4 drop for GH (3-6=50-100ppm), and only 1 drop of KH still, same as my tap water. I added a couple handfulls of crushed coral to the tank to see if that will help the KH or GH at all. I have calcium that I can add to the tank which has calcium chloride listed as the ingredient, what will that do to the water parameters? oh and my pH is 6 still, always has been. So if I add enough crushed coral to the tank to keep my buffering capacity up then I should theoretically slowly end up with a pH closer to 6.8 like my baseline tapwater? Will a couple handfulls be enough or should I add more? I added it into the gravel for now as I have nothing to bag it up with and put it into the filter itself. Amber

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 41418	From: bill 1433	Date: 6/25/2009
Subject: Re: 55 gallon community tank

Amber, I'm getting here that you want to increase GH and KH? See if you can locate a product called Oyster Flour. You can most likely find it at Feed and Grain Stores or Landscaping shops. Take your time and add very slowly to your water and check it each day before adding more.  I used one level teaspoon at a time each day until I started to see change then only 1/2 teaspoon until I got exactly where I wanted to be. Bill --- On Thu, 6/25/09, Amber Berglund <amber@...> wrote: > From: Amber Berglund <amber@...> > Subject: [AquaticLife] 55 gallon community tank > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Date: Thursday, June 25, 2009, 6:55 PM > I tested my 55 gallon community tank > today to see how the KH and GH are > since I keep chunks of coral in the tank, well apparently > the coral > isn't breaking down fast enough so there's only 4 drop for > GH > (3-6=50-100ppm), and only 1 drop of KH still, same as my > tap water. > I added a couple handfulls of crushed coral to the tank to > see if that > will help the KH or GH at all. I have calcium that I can > add to the tank > which has calcium chloride listed as the ingredient, what > will that do > to the water parameters? > oh and my pH is 6 still, always has been. > So if I add enough crushed coral to the tank to keep my > buffering > capacity up then I should theoretically slowly end up with > a pH closer > to 6.8 like my baseline tapwater? Will a couple handfulls > be enough or > should I add more? I added it into the gravel for now as I > have nothing > to bag it up with and put it into the filter itself. > > Amber > > > ------------------------------------ > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when > replying, Thank You. > ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> > ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> > PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is > NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of > the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new > subject (was re: old subject)" <- > <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. > , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. > > If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of > unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by > clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the home page.  > > Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com > to receive the digest, which includes up to 25 posts at a > time in a single email > > Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com > for the No E-Mail option where you will still be able to > read messages on the group and post replies. > > Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com > to receive individual e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links > > >     mailto:AquaticLife-fullfeatured@yahoogroups.com > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 41419	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 6/25/2009
Subject: Re: Responses to Angels please help.

Jasmine, Read these articles on proper acclimation methods. It's NEVER a good idea to put fish store water into your tank. http://www.csupomona.edu/~jskoga/Aquariums/Acclimation.html http://www.fishlore.com/acclimating-tropicalfish.htm http://faq.thekrib.com/begin-addfish.html#acclimation (Shortest Version) http://www.aquaria.info/index.php?name=News&file=article&sid=373&theme=Print er (includes a link to a YouTube Video) Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Jasmine Sent: Thursday, June 25, 2009 6:08 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Responses to Angels please help. Sorry, did I understand that you empty your bag into a bucket and add the water from your tank into the bucket (1 large cup every ten minutes)? I normally place the seal bag in my tank, allowing it to float for 20 to 30 minutes before I slowly mix the water and allowing the fish to swim out. Note: I first ask the LFS what their water reading is and ensure my water is similar. I even brought my bristlenose first to ensure it would survive. Left the tank for a week or two with just the bristlenose then went out and got my other fish. Also, if the fish store is about 20 - 30 minutes drive from home - I advise the LFS so they can prepare the fish for the journey AND I also ensure I have a 'hot & cold pack' bag with a few towels (this ensure I keep the temp fairly constant). Jasmine --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "anallafamily.2001" <anallafamily.2001@...> wrote: > > I got plenty of responsies with almost all the same questions. > water testing... > The water test that i have been doing is Nitrite, water is testing at 0ppm, ammonia might be high to day at 1.0, and ph is at 6.6. > chemicals... > when setting up the tank i used discuss buffer to lower ph and i used another chemical to get chlorine out. I have also put aquarium salt in tank 1 time (someone suggested it to boost amunity in new fish. > Buying and acclamating..... > Ok so i have been buying them at the local walmart because they are cheeper. But I put them in a 5 gal. bucket with there water and a large cup of my water and let them sit 10 min. then add another large cup of my water and let sit another 5min. then i dip net them in my tank not adding any of the water. > Tank.... > It is a 55 gal tank with 2 filters on each end and a whisper air pump. I had the tank set up for about 10 weeks but only tryed to add the fish in the last 2weeks. > I don't know, but i think i have answered all questions. > thanks Jo > ------------------------------------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the home page. Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com to receive the digest, which includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com for the No E-Mail option where you will still be able to read messages on the group and post replies. Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com to receive individual e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 41420	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 6/25/2009
Subject: Re: Byron ~ Re: Co2 & Planted Tank?'s

Everything from the fish and critters down to even the microscopic life forms and aerobic nitrifying bacteria ALL put out CO2. Further, decaying detritus will also emit CO2 and carbonic acid. Of course, you would rather NOT have decaying detritus as your source of CO2 since it would also be putting out pollutants but in some planted tanks, where the fish bioload is light, one would not even have to vacuum up the fish poo, etc. as the planted tank would be relying on this decaying detritus as a food source. A Walstad Tank, properly set up, is said to NOT need any water changes except for maybe one every six months but these are reasonably heavy planted tank with light fish bioload and a special substrate mix. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Grace Sent: Thursday, June 25, 2009 3:04 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Byron ~ Re: Co2 & Planted Tank?'s Hi Byron, That is a lot of good information, thank you. So, you are not currently using any added Co2? did you ever add Co2? And the regular Flourish (not Excel) is the only added fertilizer besides the tabs? You mentioned - "CO2 is provided by the respiration of the fish,..." How stocked are your tanks for the fish to create adequate Co2 levels? I currently only have 11 Neons and 3 Indian algae Eaters (as well as a bunch of Malaysian Trumpet and Nerite snails - do they create Co2 also?) in the 55 Gallon, there used to be several dozen livebeares back when the plants were growing really well, maybe they were making enough Co2? Do you recommend or use a particular type of light? What kind of Substrate? That sounds really simple and I like like simple, it is way to easy to over complicate things and really difficult to undue the complications i.e. algae. Do you have any pictures of the planted Tanks? Thanks Again, Aaron --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Byron" <bhosking@...> wrote: > > Plants require adequate light (high in the blue and red spectrum, intensity and duration) and nutrients (in which I include CO2, macro-nutrients and micro-nutrients) in order to photosynthesis (grow). These must be in balance for the plant. If there is an excess of any one beyond what the plant is capable of using (limited by the least available in the equation) algae usually takes over. Light should ideally be the limiting factor, so the aim is to provide the proper amount of nutrients to balance the light provided over the aquarium. > > Light is easy enough to provide through fluorescent full spectrum tubes, but it must be of the intensity (indicated in Kelvin) and duration. I won't go further into this as you specifically asked about Flourish, the nutrient part of the equation. CO2 is provided by the respiration of the fish, and sometimes by added CO2 (gas or Excel). That leaves the macro- and micro-nutrients (latter called trace elements) that are required, and they also must be in balance according to the plants' needs. Some but almost certainly not all of these may be available in tap water through the partial water changes. The easiest way to provide all that are required and in balance is through a comprehensive plant supplement. > > I currently use Seachem's Flourish Comprehensive Plant Supplement, and previously I have had equal success with the Kent Freshwater Plant Supplement. I do not recommend using individual nutrient products, since the trick is to balance them and there is a risk of providing too much or too little of this or that, and sometimes this is detrimental to plant growth and can cause algae bursts. I have read of some nutrients that will, when in excess, work to prohibit a plant from absorbing other nutrients. And excess iron can cause blotching and leaf deterioration. There has to be a balance, and the best way is to use a balanced (comprehensive) supplement. > > I have one watt of full spectrum light per gallon, no CO2, and use Flourish Comprehensive twice a week; I have plant tabs in the substrate next to the larger swords which are heavy feeders. I grow lush Echinodorus that regularly send up flower spikes (no flowers, but daughter plants), crypts, Anubias, Sagittarius, Ceratopteris, and Brazilian Pennywort that has to be cut back every week or it would cover the surface. Twice in the past five months I have reduced the fertilization to once a week, and both times within a week the swords developed yellowing leaves, a sign of nutrient (likely iron) deficiency. Increasing the fertilization to twice a week had the new leaves lush green within 1-2 weeks. Obviously I seem to have found the balance between the light, CO2 and micro- and macro-nutrients for the plants in my 70g and 90g aquaria. This has been my method for 15+ years. > > Byron. ------------------------------------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the home page. Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com to receive the digest, which includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com for the No E-Mail option where you will still be able to read messages on the group and post replies. Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com to receive individual e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 41421	From: Jasmine	Date: 6/25/2009
Subject: Re: Angels

We thought the UV Filtration was only for a short time - it was purchased to help with the treatment of Ich (any water born particals) while we medicated the tank. We are not intending to running it for a long period. Thank you for the links, I have a look at them. Jasmine --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@...> wrote: > > While UV filtration is OK to use on a tank from time to time, under certain > situations, like treating a water column (bad) bacterial or parasitic issue, > I do not think they should be run full time. There are many thousands of > microscopic critters in your tank that make up the complete ecosystem and > the start of the food chain. UV filters kill off many, if not most of these > microbes, thereby taking away a BIG part of the ecosystem of an aquarium (or > pond). > > Here's an article of "Critters" in our tanks. > http://microscopy-uk.org.uk/index.html?http://microscopy-uk.org.uk/pond/inde > x.html > > The best two pages I had (a two page article) on critters seems to be lost > forever... well not quite... read on. The last couple of times I've tried > to access their site, it seems to be down. Here are the links. They were > VERY GOOD articles. > http://www.menunkatuck.org/pages/micro.htm > http://www.menunkatuck.org/pages/micro2.htm > > I need to go to the Internet Archive Wayback Machine and find the links to > the archived copies of those two pages or anyone can use this internet > resource http://www.archive.org/web/web.php > > Here are the new links to those pages that no longer exist on the original > website. > http://web.archive.org/web/20070523055718/http://www.menunkatuck.org/pages/m > icro.htm > http://web.archive.org/web/20060716164019/http://www.menunkatuck.org/pages/m > icro2.htm > > This article also has some info but not as good as the above articles. > http://www.caudata.org/cc/articles/Tank_critters.shtml > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right > side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) > > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On > Behalf Of Jasmine > Sent: Thursday, June 25, 2009 6:51 AM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Angels > > I do have a proper filter system in place. This is just to kill the > bacteria - here is a bit of a blur about the UV purifier. > > The proper name is "UView Aquarium purifier" it polishes water with the > power of the sun. > • Crystal clear water > • No more algae or bacteria in water > • Natural cleansing, chemical free > • Healthier water, healthier fish > • Freshwater or marine environments > • For aquariums up to 200 litres. > > I still have the box and it reads – > Our unique purifier uses low wattage UV radiation to kill all water borne > algae, bacteria and pathogens passing through the filter. Used alongside > your regular filter it will give you continuous clean, crystal clear water. > This also improves fish health and well being and aids the introduction of > new fish. > *some persistent algae may still grow on the tank, plants and ornaments and > may need to be wiped off occasionally. > > I've found one site that has a mention (not much of a mention though) > http://www.aquaticlifeaquariums.com.au/index1.html > > What is does is, it take in the tank water through a sponge (that requires > cleaning about every 3 weeks). The water passes through UV light which > destroys bacteria and passes filtration water back into the tank ever so > gently. > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@> > wrote: > > > > Go to the main group's website photo album section, > > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife/photos. Once there, you can > > sort the album folders in many ways. If referring to recently > > uploaded photos, the simplest way, which I use, is on the top right, > > click the link for "Last Modified" which will sort the albums by the > > most recently modified. Then click on the album by name if there are > > more than one that was recently modified. The link to the Jasmine > > album is > > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife/photos/album/114176089/pic/l > > ist > > > > On a side note, I checked out your other photos and I see your UV > Filtration Rod (and Uncle Wormie's pics...LOL), as you referred to it in > this or another thread. I'm not sure that "UV Filtration Rod" would be the > proper term for that piece of equipment. That appears to be an in-tank UV > filter system with it's own pump (square section with suction cups) and the > gray oval section, with a wire going into the top is likely the UV light > housing. I see what looks to be an intake on one side of that, with some > filter padding to keep big stuff out of it, and then the top inverted-L tube > is the discharge tube... right? Since it looks like it takes in water that > would be coming across the back of the tank, I would point the inverted-L > discharge tube in the opposite direction to create a circular water flow. > I'm sure you have other filtration/circulation as well so maybe those other > sources gives you adequate flow to make sure ALL water eventually gets > sucked into the UV filter. I actually kind of like that system as it's > compact and portable so it can be moved from tank to tank with ease and just > suction cups onto the glass. Do you have a manufacturers name and/or model > number? Oh yeah.. make sure you clean that filter padding on the intake on > a regular basis to ensure a proper water flow rate. > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles > > referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically > > under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) > > > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] > > On Behalf Of Jasmine > > Sent: Thursday, June 25, 2009 4:18 AM > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Angels > > > > Hi Bill > > > > The photos are under the 'Jasmine' folder but I'm unsure how to send you a > link to them. > > > > Can anyone please explain to me how to do this and I can send Bill the > link to the photos. > > > > Thanks > > > > Jasmine > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, bill 1433 <warrenprint@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > Hi Jasmine, > > >  > > > I have been following along here but missed a link? Can you help? > Where are these pictures you posted or under what folder? Can you give a > link? > > >  > > > Bill > > > > > > --- On Wed, 6/24/09, Raymond Wetzel <sevenspringss@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > From: Raymond Wetzel <sevenspringss@> > > > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Angels > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > > Date: Wednesday, June 24, 2009, 8:40 AM > > > > > > > > > Hi Jasmine, Looks like you guys were really talking it up last night > at the same time, and after, I was writing my last post. As this was one > of the messages being generated while I was composing, I'll start here. > Hope your cold is better -- I'm just getting rid of mine, but its been a > real rough stretch of days from just before the past weekend, as I was hit > with a double-wammy (chest & nasal) cold that left me BEAT. Much better > today, but it's still lingering. > > > > > > You might note, by my question on this, that it's no surprise that your > Angels WERE bought at different times, as I well knew from your picture of > these procedings. What I couldn't know though, was that the Marble (male) > was originally paired up with the Silver (female) Angel before adding these > two fish with the pre-obtained Koi (female). Your description of these > procedings makes perfect sense now, and I'd have to guess that the Silver > Angel is somewhat smaller and younger than the Koi. The Koi was a real > home-wrecker, huh? LOL. It's no surprise though, in the least, that the > Marble was originally paired up with the Silver, with the Koi (large female) > overpowering the Silver to succeed at finally pairing up with the Marble. > I figured the strength of the Koi (and ONLY this fish's strength) had > everything to do with the present bonding situation. > > > > > > A natural selection behavior I've come to learn, of years of > > > observing this species is that -- In an environment of mixed > > > domestic Angelfish color strains in the presence of the wild type > > > (your Silver Angel is considered as close to wild type as possible), > > > the first choice for pair bonding of ANY of the domestic color > > > strains will ALWAYS and INEVITABLY be with the wild form before ANY > > > OTHER color form present - and that includes a possible choice of a > > > same color form. The ONLY reason why your Marble is now paired up > > > with the Koi is that the Silver was overpowered by this stronger > > > (and quite determined) female Koi. Contrary to what some > > > hobbyists prefer to think, Angelfish will select a different mate > > > when the situation is advantageous to them; they do not necessarily > > > pair up for life (unless the hobbyist maintains them as such).  > > > > > > This too comes as little surprise, as the second choice of ANY pair > > > bonding in domestic color forms of Angelfish is almost ALWAYS (and > > > just as INEVITABLY) a mate of THE SAME color strain, followed close > > > behind but only after the same color -- a mate having at least some > > > of the genes as does the pairing mate. I would say "ALAWYS" here > > > too, rather than "almost ALWAYS" as I've never observed any other > > > behavior, but there's usually at least one different situation > > > somewhere. Actually, these two last pairings are mutual choices of > > > both partners. In your case, your calico (tri-color, w/black > > > included) Koi has Marble in its genes as Gold Marble is used as one > > > of the fish to develop calico Koi. > > > > > > In the pairing of the wild form in the presence of only domestically > developed color strains, ALL of the domestic Angels of opposite sex from the > wild form will first be attracted to the wild form before any other choices > are considered by them. It will be the choice of the wild form to accept > whichever domestic Angel best suits it out of all potential mates. > > > > > > Wish I could fill you in more on the marking (and pimple-like > > > growth) on the Silver Angel. As there is a growth opposite the > > > pigmentation, I'm more inclined to believe it's more than just a > > > marking too, even though I can't see the raised area well. The > > > first impression is that it could be a melanoma, but it's too > > > immature at this point for me to diagnose it as such (and hopefully, > > > I'm completely wrong on that). As long as it doesn't get much > > > worse, I can't see cause to be concerned about it at this point -- > > > as long as it's not bothering the fish. It would serve little > > > purpose anyway to be concerned since we don't know what we're > > > dealing with. As it has made an appearance though, you can only > > > expect it to grow over time -- hopefully slowly and not too soon > > > detrimental to the fish's health. If, by chance, it doesn't grow > > > so much the better. Keep us posted if you see a noticeable > > > change. Ray > > > > > >  > > > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Jasmine" <adonaikam@> wrote: > > > > > > > > Hi Ray. > > > > > > > > I might add â€" I found it extremely hard falling asleep last night > â€" was thinking about the angelfishes, then again â€" it could have > been the irritant of my coughing keeping me awake (I have a cold at > present). > > > > > > > > The funny thing is, the Kio has been with us the longest. We felt > bad that it was on its own and have been keeping an eye out for a nice match > for it but decided to get two mature angels which looked like they had > paired off (which was the marble and silver female) and 4 baby angels to > keep them all company. > > > > > > > > Once we introduced them into the main tank, the Kio took to the marble > and chased the silver female away â€" it was so strange to see. We > have seen the female Kio and female Silver in lip tugger-ward twice. > > > > > > > > I don't believe it is just a black dot on the female silver. The is > a slight curvature in the location of the dot but because it keeps getting > chased, it doesn't stay still long enough to obtain a good shot. I'm not > going to worry too much about it at present as it doesn't seem to be doing > the fish any harm. > > > > > > > > Jasmine > > > > > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Raymond Wetzel" <sevenspringss@> > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > Back again Jasmine, Looks like I was writing my last reply to you > as you were send these last 4 pics and this message. I just now approved > your latest pics, then looked them over. Yep, the "exiled" Silver Angel > IS a female, as I first thought. BTW, did you happen to add this fish > after you already had the pair (Marble & Koi)? > > > > > > > > > > I had a look at the area you circled on this fish, and if it > > > > > were just a marking as that triangle-shaped spots appears to be > > > > > on the one side, I'd say that, that's ALL it is, since today's > > > > > mixed traits can be expected to show an odd spot here and there > > > > > at times. But if it's protruding out the other side, it would > > > > > seem to be some sort of a growth. My older monitor does not > > > > > show the protrusion well enough for me to see it well. > > > > > Couldn't tell you what it is, and it would be premature at this > > > > > stage for me to say it's some kind of internal parasite, but it > > > > > is odd. Unless someone else can diagnose it, I wouldn't tell > > > > > you to try to treat it -- it's just good that it's not bothering > > > > > the fish. You might keep an eye on it, but still, without > > > > > knowing the cause there's little you could do for it if it > > > > > protrudes more -- unless it manifests itself as a pimple which > > > > > you could then use a needle for, along with a topical > > > > > antibiotic. Ray > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Jasmine" <adonaikam@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > Hi Ray > > > > > > > > > > > > I've managed to get two shots of the 'exiled' angel (right profile > and left profile). > > > > > > > > > > > > It certainly doesn't have the same 'hump' on its head as the male > you pointed out. I always thought the hump may have been part of the type > of angel it was - silly me. > > > > > > > > > > > > Several weeks ago we happen to notice that this same angel has a > black pimple like mark - see photo titled 'Exiled angel_03 23.06.09'. > This black mark looks like it is protruding out of the other side of the > fish - see 'Exiled angel_02 23.06.09'. The mark doesn't seem to be > causing any problems but I'm sure it has grown slightly since we first > noticed it about 2 months ago. It really reminds me of a black head > pimple. > > > > > > > > > > > > I can't get a good shot of that area on the angel (as it hides > most of the time). When we get our other tank set up, the eco system all > ready and the paired off angels transferred into that tank - I might be able > to get a better shot then. > > > > > > > > > > > > Thanks again for you help and advice. > > > > > > Jasmine > > > > > > > ------------------------------------ > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. > ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> > PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to > the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT > LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- > <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. > > If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of unsubscribing, you > can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the > home page. > > Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com to receive the digest, which > includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email > > Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com for the No E-Mail option where > you will still be able to read messages on the group and post replies. > > Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com to receive individual > e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 41422	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 6/25/2009
Subject: Re: Tap water Baseline testing

Well, at least you know your tap water baseline now so you can now compare your tanks to the baseline (48 hour test results) instead of out-the-tap numbers and you'll have a better idea of what is As you see, they can change quite a bit, in your case, the pH went up from 6.5 to 6.8 and your GH went down from 100-120ppm (to me 6 drops = 6 dH would equal around 108ppm = 6 x 18), down to around 36ppm and your KH level is almost nil. If you keep fish that like that kind of water, the recommended way, then you will not have to dose your water with any thing to buffer up the GH and KH levels... BUT remember that with such a LOW KH level, you could see a pH crash at any time. If it was me, I'd buffer up the KH and probably the GH also, at least a little. Something like Oyster Flour, CuttleBone or crushed coral would all help with the Oyster Flour acting the fastest and being the most precise way to measure/dose and then the pieces of broken up CuttleBone being next fastest and the crushed coral being the slowest method. All three of these would add Calcium Carbonate to your water which the Calcium would increase the GH and the Carbonate would increase the KH. You would want to do this slowly and keep ACCURATE logs of how much you are adding and when. After a short period of time and testing, you will have a more precise dosing that you would need to do with each PWC and on each tank, to maintain the KH and GH levels. Your pH of 6.8 is high enough to give you a wide array of fish you can keep. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Amber Berglund Sent: Thursday, June 25, 2009 4:54 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Tap water Baseline testing The first GH test was 6 drops, correct, which was 3-6 = 50-100, so I figured it was 100ppm ;) They really do have odd instructions, I agree, it should start at 1 drop not 0 drops, lol. I don't have an iron test kit, just calcium and phosphate. I think I have too much phosphate though, that's my guess though ;) LOL. Will check out the links, thanks, Amber Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > > > I'm not sure why the GH test says "0-3 is 0-50ppm". Other GH test > kits, where they use the number of drops until it changes color > testing format usually works on the principle of each drop represents > 1 dH so two drops would be 2 dH (with each dH being equal to 17.9ppm > or round it up to 18ppm for simplicity). I'm not sure how they could > even have "0" since if you didn't add any drops, how would you know? > LOL Someone needs to write API with my question about 0 drops. Of > course, if the test kit changes color after only one drop, that would > mean that the level is between 0-1 dH (or 0-18ppm). I'm not sure how > they could say 3 drops could still be 0ppm (which is what their "0-3 > is 0-50ppm" would interpret to). Double check your instructions and > maybe even use the "Contact Us" form on API's website, > http://www.aquariumpharm.com <http://www.aquariumpharm.com> to verify > that you are reading things right. > They've always replied to me pretty quickly when I've contacted them > in the past. > > Reviewing your initial results, your pH has gone up from 6.5 to 6.8 > and your GH has gone down from 100ppm (How many drops was that first > test? I'm guessing 5-6? You only posted 100ppm.) down to 36ppm (2 dH x > 17.9ppm = 35.8pppm rounded up to 36ppm). I can't help you much with > the iron, phosphate and calcium test results and how they equate to > good or bad amounts. > > These articles on "Chuck's Planted Tank Pages" should help though... > "Introduction To Fertilizers In A Planted Tank" > http://www.csd.net/~cgadd/aqua/art_plant_fertilizer_intro.htm > <http://www.csd.net/%7Ecgadd/aqua/art_plant_fertilizer_intro.htm> > and "Nutrient Deficiencies In A Planted Tank" > http://www.csd.net/~cgadd/aqua/art_plant_nutrient.htm > <http://www.csd.net/%7Ecgadd/aqua/art_plant_nutrient.htm> > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> (Links to any articles referenced in > above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels > and also under Archives by Year, Month) > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On Behalf Of Amber Berglund > Sent: Thursday, June 25, 2009 1:30 AM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Tap water Baseline testing > > Okay tonights tests 48 hours > > pH: 6.8 still > Ammonia: 0 > Nitrite: 0 > Nitrate: 0 > GH: 2 drops, the chart says 0-3 is 0-50 ppm, so my guess 33 ppm? > KH: again 1 drop, so under 18 ppm as Lenny pointed out ;) I got the > phosphate test kit tonight, going to run that test too, and I have the > calcium test kit as well, might as well run one of those ;) LOL > Calcium: 20 ppm, that seems very low... which I figured. > Weird test kit for the phosphate, it's by Red Sea... I prefer API but > it had high reviews. > Results came back somewhere between 0 and .1... so I have very little > phosphate in my tap water, at least after 48 hours ;) LOL Going to > test the > 55 gallon next to see what it's sitting at. > Phosphate for the 55 gallon community tank that's been having algae > issues > is: inbetween .5 and 1ppm. Is that bad? > > Amber > > Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > > > > > > When I wrote that article a while back, using my water as the "test" > > water, > > after 48 hours, things didn't really change any more that I could > > see on the test results. There may have been minute changes but > > nothing noticeable with API test kits. Of course, I don't remember > > if I had a GH or KH test kit back then since I was mainly interested > > in how much ammonia was freed up when the chloramine broke down and > > also how much the pH might have changed. > > I know I have hard water so I never really worried KH and GH test > results. > > > > In your case, since you saw a change in the GH test results after 24 > > hours, it wouldn't hurt to go three days. Just keep them dang dirty > > pawed pets out the bucket. ;-) > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>> > (Links to any articles referenced in > > above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under > > Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On Behalf Of Amber Berglund > > Sent: Wednesday, June 24, 2009 5:21 PM > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Tap water Baseline testing > > > > I didn't have a spare pump or anything to put into the bucket to > > move water, so should I wait another day on the tests to be safe or > > will that matter? > > I'm not dabbling in changing, it's just a bucket of water ;) LOL. I > > would like to figure out how much crushed coral I will need to add > > to the tank though, once the baseline tests are done. > > > > Amber > > > > bill 1433 wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > If your dabbling in adjusting or changing your water parameters at > > > all, 48 hours among tests would be about right. But considerations > > > must be given to all filtration and water movement throughout the > > > tank. Obviously, the more or higher the movement, the easier it is > > > to adjust and monitor. > > > > > > Bill > > > > > > --- On Wed, 6/24/09, Amber Berglund <amber@... > <mailto:amber%40rose-fields.com> > > <mailto:amber%40rose-fields.com> > > > <mailto:amber%40rose-fields.com>> wrote: > > > > > > From: Amber Berglund <amber@... > <mailto:amber%40rose-fields.com> > > <mailto:amber%40rose-fields.com> > > > <mailto:amber%40rose-fields.com>> > > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Tap water Baseline testing > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > Date: Wednesday, June 24, 2009, 11:03 AM > > > > > > I had a feeling I knew what you were asking without saying it, LOL. > > > I purchased the API master test kit first, then when I set up the > > > walstad tank I got the GH and KH test kit so I could add coral to > > > the tank and watch the GH and KH at the same time. > > > I got API test kits just because I'm already familiar with them > > > and figured it would be the easiest way to go ;) I'm curious to > > > see what my pH is going to be tonight... Should I go over > > > 48 hours on testing or is that plenty? > > > > > > Amber > > > > > > bill 1433 wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Hi Amber, > > > > > > > > You already knew what I was getting at! Wanted to see if the GH > > > > and KH were in your Master Test Kit or an extra purchase. > > > > > > > > Bill > > > > > > > > --- On Tue, 6/23/09, Amber Berglund <amber@... > <mailto:amber%40rose-fields.com> > > <mailto:amber%40rose-fields.com> > > > <mailto:amber%40rose-fields.com> > > > > <mailto:amber%40rose-fields.com>> wrote: > > > > > > > > > From: Amber Berglund <amber@... > <mailto:amber%40rose-fields.com> > > <mailto:amber%40rose-fields.com> > > > <mailto:amber%40rose-fields.com> > > > > <mailto:amber%40rose-fields.com>> > > > > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Tap water Baseline testing > > > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > Date: Tuesday, June 23, 2009, 11:06 PM API master test kit and > > > > > extra API test kits for GH and KH, everything is API. > > > > > > > > > > Amber > > > > > > > > > > bill 1433 wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Amber, > > > > > > > > > > > > If you don't mind? The name or manufacture of > > > > > the test kit your using > > > > > > please? > > > > > > > > > > > > Bill > > > > > > > > > > > > --- On Tue, 6/23/09, Amber Berglund <amber@... > <mailto:amber%40rose-fields.com> > > <mailto:amber%40rose-fields.com> > > > <mailto:amber%40rose-fields.com> > > > > <mailto:amber%40rose-fields.com> > > > > > > > > > > > <mailto:amber%40rose-fields.com>> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > From: Amber Berglund <amber@... > <mailto:amber%40rose-fields.com> > > <mailto:amber%40rose-fields.com> > > > <mailto:amber%40rose-fields.com> > > > > <mailto:amber%40rose-fields.com> > > > > > > > > > > > <mailto:amber%40rose-fields.com>> > > > > > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Tap water Baseline testing > > > > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > Date: Tuesday, June 23, 2009, 9:58 PM > > > > > > > > > > > > Tapwater baseline testing 24 hours > > > > > > > > > > > > pH: 6.8 > > > > > > > > > > > > Ammonia: 0 > > > > > > Nitrite: 0 > > > > > > Nitrate: 0 > > > > > > GH: 50 ppm > > > > > > KH:1 drop, or close to 0 ppm again > > ------------------------------------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the home page. Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com to receive the digest, which includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com for the No E-Mail option where you will still be able to read messages on the group and post replies. Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com to receive individual e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 41423	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 6/25/2009
Subject: Re: Flourish products

Well, this page, just on Flourish http://www.seachem.com/Products/product_pages/Flourish.html, gives it's ingredients and guaranteed analysis. On the lower right, you can also download the MSDS in PDF format which would possibly give more info. Here's a snip from the page: Guaranteed Analysis Total Nitrogen 0.07% Available Phosphate ( P2O5) 0.01% Soluble Potash 0.37% Calcium (Ca) 0.14% Magnesium (Mg) 0.11% Sulfur (S) 0.2773% Boron (B) 0.009% Chlorine (Cl) 1.15% Cobalt (Co) 0.0004% Copper (Cu) 0.0001% Iron (Fe) 0.32% Manganese (Mn) 0.0118% Molybdenum (Mo) 0.0009% Sodium (Na) 0.13% Zinc (Zn) 0.0007% Derived from: Potassium Chloride, Calcium Chloride, Copper Sulfate, Magnesium Chloride, Ferrous Gluconate, Cobalt Sulfate, Magnesium Sulfate, Manganese Sulfate, Boric Acid, Sodium Molybdate, Zinc Sulfate, Protein Hydrolysates. Some components are no longer listed in the Guaranteed Analysis due to state regulations. The formulation of this product has not be altered. (END SNIP) It seems that JUST the Flourish already has most, if not all, of the micro and macro nutrients that might be needed. I'm not sure the other SeaChem products would be needed. The Flourish would also be adding things that would also raise the GH level. On the right side of the SeaChem site, you'll see links to a Dose Chart and also for Dosing Calculator. I think Chuck's Planted Tank pages also has charts and calculators. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Amber Berglund Sent: Thursday, June 25, 2009 5:09 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: Flourish products I've looked at the seachem site previously to see if I could find more info than I already had, but didn't find anything new. I dosed the tank yesterday with the new flourish products, they are not an every day dose, the bottle says twice a week. Honestly I prefer the ease of the walstad tanks, I'm tempted to tear this tank down and make it a walstad tank in the future. Amber Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > > > http://www.SeaChem.com <http://www.SeaChem.com> makes LOTS of common > products for aquarium. Most are good... some are not, IMO. Here's the > list of Flourish products > http://www.seachem.com/Products/product_pages/Flourish.html > <http://www.seachem.com/Products/product_pages/Flourish.html> and an > explanation of each. > > As with most bottle chemicals available at a store, DO NOT use them > until you've done a LOT of research and you know how they will affect > the ecosystem and chemistry in your tank. Many bottled products > advertise themselves to do a LOT more than they can actually do... > kind of like most stuff out there. > > While occasionally, a bottled product will sometimes be needed (such > as a dechlor product), IT'S NOT GOOD TO START ADDING ALL KINDS OF > OTHER CRAP TO OUR FISH TANKS. They are closed ecosystems and each > added chemical goes a little further towards turning a fish tank into a chemical dump site. > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> (Links to any articles referenced in > above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels > and also under Archives by Year, Month) > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On Behalf Of Jasmine > Sent: Thursday, June 25, 2009 6:20 AM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Flourish products > > I've never heard of any of these. > What is it? > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>, Amber Berglund <amber@...> wrote: > > > > Does anyone out there use more than just flourish excel for their > > fish tanks? > > I got several of the products to see if they will make a difference > > in my 55 gallon for the potted plants that aren't doing so spiffy. I > > haven't tried any of them except the excel yet. > > I got: > > Flourish > > Flourish trace > > Flourish potassium > > Flourish excel > > Flourish iron > > > > Anything special that anyone wants to point out before I use any of > > these products? (besides the flourish excel which I'm already using > > in my 55 gallon community tank). > > > > Amber > > ------------------------------------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the home page. Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com to receive the digest, which includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com for the No E-Mail option where you will still be able to read messages on the group and post replies. Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com to receive individual e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 41424	From: Jasmine	Date: 6/25/2009
Subject: Re: Responses to Angels please help.

Ok. Didn't know half this stuff. I mainly followed what my dad use to do. Excellent reading. Thank you. Jasmine --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@...> wrote: > > Jasmine, > > Read these articles on proper acclimation methods. It's NEVER a good idea > to put fish store water into your tank. > > http://www.csupomona.edu/~jskoga/Aquariums/Acclimation.html > > http://www.fishlore.com/acclimating-tropicalfish.htm > > http://faq.thekrib.com/begin-addfish.html#acclimation (Shortest Version) > > http://www.aquaria.info/index.php?name=News&file=article&sid=373&theme=Print > er (includes a link to a YouTube Video) > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right > side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) > > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On > Behalf Of Jasmine > Sent: Thursday, June 25, 2009 6:08 AM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Responses to Angels please help. > > Sorry, did I understand that you empty your bag into a bucket and add the > water from your tank into the bucket (1 large cup every ten minutes)? > > I normally place the seal bag in my tank, allowing it to float for 20 to 30 > minutes before I slowly mix the water and allowing the fish to swim out. > > Note: > I first ask the LFS what their water reading is and ensure my water is > similar. I even brought my bristlenose first to ensure it would survive. > Left the tank for a week or two with just the bristlenose then went out and > got my other fish. > > Also, if the fish store is about 20 - 30 minutes drive from home - I > advise the LFS so they can prepare the fish for the journey AND I also > ensure I have a 'hot & cold pack' bag with a few towels (this ensure I keep > the temp fairly constant). > > Jasmine > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "anallafamily.2001" > <anallafamily.2001@> wrote: > > > > I got plenty of responsies with almost all the same questions. > > water testing... > > The water test that i have been doing is Nitrite, water is testing at > 0ppm, ammonia might be high to day at 1.0, and ph is at 6.6. > > chemicals... > > when setting up the tank i used discuss buffer to lower ph and i used > another chemical to get chlorine out. I have also put aquarium salt in tank > 1 time (someone suggested it to boost amunity in new fish. > > Buying and acclamating..... > > Ok so i have been buying them at the local walmart because they are > cheeper. But I put them in a 5 gal. bucket with there water and a large cup > of my water and let them sit 10 min. then add another large cup of my water > and let sit another 5min. then i dip net them in my tank not adding any of > the water. > > Tank.... > > It is a 55 gal tank with 2 filters on each end and a whisper air pump. I > had the tank set up for about 10 weeks but only tryed to add the fish in the > last 2weeks. > > I don't know, but i think i have answered all questions. > > thanks Jo > > > > > > > ------------------------------------ > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. > ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> > PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to > the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT > LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- > <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. > > If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of unsubscribing, you > can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the > home page. > > Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com to receive the digest, which > includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email > > Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com for the No E-Mail option where > you will still be able to read messages on the group and post replies. > > Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com to receive individual > e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 41425	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 6/25/2009
Subject: Re: 55 gallon community tank

I've never used crushed coral and I think it would depend on how big the pieces are, the volume of the water, where it's put, etc.. The smaller the pieces, the more surface area of the crushed coral that would be exposed to the water. Are you putting in your filter or just dropping it in the tank? I like putting it in my filter as you get more forced and agitated water going through the additive. Further, you can monitor how much is dissolving when you do your weekly filter maintenance and top off the filter media bag as needed. I just did a Google search for 'how much crushed coral per gallon' and got quite a few hits to reputable sites. Here's a few of the hits. Duplicate the search to read over even more. http://www.cichlidforums.com/showthread.php?t=36004 http://www.fishlore.com/fishforum/more-freshwater-aquarium-topics/4890-crush ed-coral-freshwater.html http://www.frontosa.com/viewtopic.php?p=14010 If you do not have filter media bags, then sections of stockings/nylons will work. There's a way to recycle stockings/nylons that have runs in them.... to make the greenies happy. ;-) Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Amber Berglund Sent: Thursday, June 25, 2009 5:55 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] 55 gallon community tank I tested my 55 gallon community tank today to see how the KH and GH are since I keep chunks of coral in the tank, well apparently the coral isn't breaking down fast enough so there's only 4 drop for GH (3-6=50-100ppm), and only 1 drop of KH still, same as my tap water. I added a couple handfulls of crushed coral to the tank to see if that will help the KH or GH at all. I have calcium that I can add to the tank which has calcium chloride listed as the ingredient, what will that do to the water parameters? oh and my pH is 6 still, always has been. So if I add enough crushed coral to the tank to keep my buffering capacity up then I should theoretically slowly end up with a pH closer to 6.8 like my baseline tapwater? Will a couple handfulls be enough or should I add more? I added it into the gravel for now as I have nothing to bag it up with and put it into the filter itself. Amber

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 41426	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 6/25/2009
Subject: Re: 55 gallon community tank

I actually calculated the proper dosing of Oyster Flour quite a while back in one of the Pond Forums that I participate in. If Amber decides to go that route, I'll dig up my old post and re-post it here or put it on my blog. Actually, a search of that group found the thread easy enough. Lately, I don't have much confidence in Yahoo Group's searching but it worked this time. Here's the thread. Read all the way through since I forgot to carry a one in one of my earlier computations but caught it right away and corrected it in my next post. Ol' Bill, you would like the Bill in that forum. He's a character too (yeah I know... I'm the pot calling the kettle black), as you'll see in the thread. I'm not sure what happened to the Bill in that forum. He hasn't replied in a while. I hope he's OK. http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Ponds-Koi/message/29647 Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of bill 1433 Sent: Thursday, June 25, 2009 6:06 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] 55 gallon community tank Amber, I'm getting here that you want to increase GH and KH? See if you can locate a product called Oyster Flour. You can most likely find it at Feed and Grain Stores or Landscaping shops. Take your time and add very slowly to your water and check it each day before adding more.  I used one level teaspoon at a time each day until I started to see change then only 1/2 teaspoon until I got exactly where I wanted to be. Bill --- On Thu, 6/25/09, Amber Berglund <amber@...> wrote: > From: Amber Berglund <amber@...> > Subject: [AquaticLife] 55 gallon community tank > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Date: Thursday, June 25, 2009, 6:55 PM I tested my 55 gallon community > tank today to see how the KH and GH are since I keep chunks of coral > in the tank, well apparently the coral isn't breaking down fast enough > so there's only 4 drop for GH (3-6=50-100ppm), and only 1 drop of KH > still, same as my tap water. > I added a couple handfulls of crushed coral to the tank to see if that > will help the KH or GH at all. I have calcium that I can add to the > tank which has calcium chloride listed as the ingredient, what will > that do to the water parameters? > oh and my pH is 6 still, always has been. > So if I add enough crushed coral to the tank to keep my buffering > capacity up then I should theoretically slowly end up with a pH closer > to 6.8 like my baseline tapwater? Will a couple handfulls be enough or > should I add more? I added it into the gravel for now as I have > nothing to bag it up with and put it into the filter itself. > > Amber

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 41427	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 6/25/2009
Subject: Re: Flourish products

I want something that raises KH mostly, and doesn't get used up fast... what are my options? LOL I thought calcium carbonate is what I wanted, but am I wrong? Amber Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > > > Well, this page, just on Flourish > http://www.seachem.com/Products/product_pages/Flourish.html, > <http://www.seachem.com/Products/product_pages/Flourish.html,> gives it's > ingredients and guaranteed analysis. On the lower right, you can also > download the MSDS in PDF format which would possibly give more info. > > Here's a snip from the page: > > Guaranteed Analysis > Total Nitrogen 0.07% > Available Phosphate ( P2O5) 0.01% > Soluble Potash 0.37% > Calcium (Ca) 0.14% > Magnesium (Mg) 0.11% > Sulfur (S) 0.2773% > Boron (B) 0.009% > Chlorine (Cl) 1.15% > Cobalt (Co) 0.0004% > Copper (Cu) 0.0001% > Iron (Fe) 0.32% > Manganese (Mn) 0.0118% > Molybdenum (Mo) 0.0009% > Sodium (Na) 0.13% > Zinc (Zn) 0.0007% > > Derived from: Potassium Chloride, Calcium Chloride, Copper Sulfate, > Magnesium Chloride, Ferrous Gluconate, Cobalt Sulfate, Magnesium Sulfate, > Manganese Sulfate, Boric Acid, Sodium Molybdate, Zinc Sulfate, Protein > Hydrolysates. > > Some components are no longer listed in the Guaranteed Analysis due to > state > regulations. The formulation of this product has not be altered. > (END SNIP) > > It seems that JUST the Flourish already has most, if not all, of the micro > and macro nutrients that might be needed. I'm not sure the other SeaChem > products would be needed. The Flourish would also be adding things that > would also raise the GH level. > > On the right side of the SeaChem site, you'll see links to a Dose > Chart and > also for Dosing Calculator. I think Chuck's Planted Tank pages also has > charts and calculators. > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right > side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On > Behalf Of Amber Berglund > Sent: Thursday, June 25, 2009 5:09 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: Flourish products > > I've looked at the seachem site previously to see if I could find more > info > than I already had, but didn't find anything new. I dosed the tank > yesterday > with the new flourish products, they are not an every day dose, the bottle > says twice a week. > Honestly I prefer the ease of the walstad tanks, I'm tempted to tear this > tank down and make it a walstad tank in the future. > > Amber > > Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > > > > > > http://www.SeaChem.com <http://www.SeaChem.com> > <http://www.SeaChem.com <http://www.SeaChem.com>> makes LOTS of common > > products for aquarium. Most are good... some are not, IMO. Here's the > > list of Flourish products > > http://www.seachem.com/Products/product_pages/Flourish.html > <http://www.seachem.com/Products/product_pages/Flourish.html> > > <http://www.seachem.com/Products/product_pages/Flourish.html > <http://www.seachem.com/Products/product_pages/Flourish.html>> and an > > explanation of each. > > > > As with most bottle chemicals available at a store, DO NOT use them > > until you've done a LOT of research and you know how they will affect > > the ecosystem and chemistry in your tank. Many bottled products > > advertise themselves to do a LOT more than they can actually do... > > kind of like most stuff out there. > > > > While occasionally, a bottled product will sometimes be needed (such > > as a dechlor product), IT'S NOT GOOD TO START ADDING ALL KINDS OF > > OTHER CRAP TO OUR FISH TANKS. They are closed ecosystems and each > > added chemical goes a little further towards turning a fish tank into a > chemical dump site. > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>> > (Links to any articles referenced in > > above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels > > and also under Archives by Year, Month) > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On Behalf Of Jasmine > > Sent: Thursday, June 25, 2009 6:20 AM > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Flourish products > > > > I've never heard of any of these. > > What is it? > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>, Amber Berglund <amber@...> > wrote: > > > > > > Does anyone out there use more than just flourish excel for their > > > fish tanks? > > > I got several of the products to see if they will make a difference > > > in my 55 gallon for the potted plants that aren't doing so spiffy. I > > > haven't tried any of them except the excel yet. > > > I got: > > > Flourish > > > Flourish trace > > > Flourish potassium > > > Flourish excel > > > Flourish iron > > > > > > Anything special that anyone wants to point out before I use any of > > > these products? (besides the flourish excel which I'm already using > > > in my 55 gallon community tank). > > > > > > Amber > > > > > > ------------------------------------ > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. > ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> > PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to > the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the > SUBJECT > LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- > <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. > > If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of unsubscribing, you > can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the > home page. > > Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:aquaticlife-digest%40yahoogroups.com> to receive the digest, which > includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email > > Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:aquaticlife-nomail%40yahoogroups.com> for the No E-Mail option > where > you will still be able to read messages on the group and post replies. > > Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:aquaticlife-normal%40yahoogroups.com> to receive individual > e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 41428	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 6/25/2009
Subject: Re: 55 gallon community tank

Nylon's what are those? LOL I think I haven't worn those since highschool ;) or at least the last time I went to the bar, years and years ago ;) LOL I will see what I can dig up, I added it to the tank for now as I didn't have anything to use as a bag on hand. I will search for nylons this weekend. Amber Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > > > I've never used crushed coral and I think it would depend on how big the > pieces are, the volume of the water, where it's put, etc.. The smaller the > pieces, the more surface area of the crushed coral that would be > exposed to > the water. Are you putting in your filter or just dropping it in the tank? > I like putting it in my filter as you get more forced and agitated water > going through the additive. Further, you can monitor how much is > dissolving > when you do your weekly filter maintenance and top off the filter > media bag > as needed. > > I just did a Google search for 'how much crushed coral per gallon' and got > quite a few hits to reputable sites. Here's a few of the hits. Duplicate > the search to read over even more. > > http://www.cichlidforums.com/showthread.php?t=36004 > <http://www.cichlidforums.com/showthread.php?t=36004> > > http://www.fishlore.com/fishforum/more-freshwater-aquarium-topics/4890-crush > <http://www.fishlore.com/fishforum/more-freshwater-aquarium-topics/4890-crush> > ed-coral-freshwater.html > > http://www.frontosa.com/viewtopic.php?p=14010 > <http://www.frontosa.com/viewtopic.php?p=14010> > > If you do not have filter media bags, then sections of > stockings/nylons will > work. There's a way to recycle stockings/nylons that have runs in them.... > to make the greenies happy. ;-) > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right > side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On > Behalf Of Amber Berglund > Sent: Thursday, June 25, 2009 5:55 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Subject: [AquaticLife] 55 gallon community tank > > I tested my 55 gallon community tank today to see how the KH and GH are > since I keep chunks of coral in the tank, well apparently the coral isn't > breaking down fast enough so there's only 4 drop for GH > (3-6=50-100ppm), and > only 1 drop of KH still, same as my tap water. > I added a couple handfulls of crushed coral to the tank to see if that > will > help the KH or GH at all. I have calcium that I can add to the tank which > has calcium chloride listed as the ingredient, what will that do to the > water parameters? > oh and my pH is 6 still, always has been. > So if I add enough crushed coral to the tank to keep my buffering capacity > up then I should theoretically slowly end up with a pH closer to 6.8 > like my > baseline tapwater? Will a couple handfulls be enough or should I add > more? I > added it into the gravel for now as I have nothing to bag it up with > and put > it into the filter itself. > > Amber > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 41429	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 6/25/2009
Subject: Re: 55 gallon community tank

My GH doesn't seem that low though, especially with the coral chunks and shells in the tank... or am I wrong? 4 drops is what the test was earlier for GH, before I added some of the crushed coral (which is the consistency of slightly larger than sand you would find on the beach). Will crushed coral only raise GH or will it raise both KH and GH? Amber Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > > > I actually calculated the proper dosing of Oyster Flour quite a while back > in one of the Pond Forums that I participate in. If Amber decides to go > that route, I'll dig up my old post and re-post it here or put it on my > blog. > > Actually, a search of that group found the thread easy enough. Lately, I > don't have much confidence in Yahoo Group's searching but it worked this > time. Here's the thread. Read all the way through since I forgot to carry > a one in one of my earlier computations but caught it right away and > corrected it in my next post. > > Ol' Bill, you would like the Bill in that forum. He's a character too > (yeah > I know... I'm the pot calling the kettle black), as you'll see in the > thread. I'm not sure what happened to the Bill in that forum. He hasn't > replied in a while. I hope he's OK. > > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Ponds-Koi/message/29647 > <http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Ponds-Koi/message/29647> > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right > side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On > Behalf Of bill 1433 > Sent: Thursday, June 25, 2009 6:06 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] 55 gallon community tank > > Amber, > > I'm getting here that you want to increase GH and KH? > > See if you can locate a product called Oyster Flour. You can most likely > find it at Feed and Grain Stores or Landscaping shops. Take your time and > add very slowly to your water and check it each day before adding more. I > used one level teaspoon at a time each day until I started to see change > then only 1/2 teaspoon until I got exactly where I wanted to be. > > Bill > > --- On Thu, 6/25/09, Amber Berglund <amber@... > <mailto:amber%40rose-fields.com>> wrote: > > > From: Amber Berglund <amber@... > <mailto:amber%40rose-fields.com>> > > Subject: [AquaticLife] 55 gallon community tank > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > Date: Thursday, June 25, 2009, 6:55 PM I tested my 55 gallon community > > tank today to see how the KH and GH are since I keep chunks of coral > > in the tank, well apparently the coral isn't breaking down fast enough > > so there's only 4 drop for GH (3-6=50-100ppm), and only 1 drop of KH > > still, same as my tap water. > > I added a couple handfulls of crushed coral to the tank to see if that > > will help the KH or GH at all. I have calcium that I can add to the > > tank which has calcium chloride listed as the ingredient, what will > > that do to the water parameters? > > oh and my pH is 6 still, always has been. > > So if I add enough crushed coral to the tank to keep my buffering > > capacity up then I should theoretically slowly end up with a pH closer > > to 6.8 like my baseline tapwater? Will a couple handfulls be enough or > > should I add more? I added it into the gravel for now as I have > > nothing to bag it up with and put it into the filter itself. > > > > Amber > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 41430	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 6/25/2009
Subject: Re: Flourish products

For the raising of KH only, you can use Baking Soda (Sodium Bicarbonate) and this site with a calculator. http://dataguru.org/misc/aquarium/calKH.asp You should probably return the Flourish Trace, Potassium, Excel and Iron since the basic Flourish has all of these things... well not the CO2 from the Excel but since you have plants that would be adversely affected by Excel, you don't really want to use it. Of course, you could Google to see if half-dosing or some other lesser dosing of Excel might not harm the Anacharis. I think you mentioned another plant (maybe Valisneria?) too but the FAQ's on Excel's webpage only mentions its potential harm to Anacharis. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Amber Berglund Sent: Thursday, June 25, 2009 9:54 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: Flourish products I want something that raises KH mostly, and doesn't get used up fast... what are my options? LOL I thought calcium carbonate is what I wanted, but am I wrong? Amber Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > > > Well, this page, just on Flourish > http://www.seachem.com/Products/product_pages/Flourish.html, > <http://www.seachem.com/Products/product_pages/Flourish.html,> gives > it's ingredients and guaranteed analysis. On the lower right, you can > also download the MSDS in PDF format which would possibly give more info. > > Here's a snip from the page: > > Guaranteed Analysis > Total Nitrogen 0.07% > Available Phosphate ( P2O5) 0.01% > Soluble Potash 0.37% > Calcium (Ca) 0.14% > Magnesium (Mg) 0.11% > Sulfur (S) 0.2773% > Boron (B) 0.009% > Chlorine (Cl) 1.15% > Cobalt (Co) 0.0004% > Copper (Cu) 0.0001% > Iron (Fe) 0.32% > Manganese (Mn) 0.0118% > Molybdenum (Mo) 0.0009% > Sodium (Na) 0.13% > Zinc (Zn) 0.0007% > > Derived from: Potassium Chloride, Calcium Chloride, Copper Sulfate, > Magnesium Chloride, Ferrous Gluconate, Cobalt Sulfate, Magnesium > Sulfate, Manganese Sulfate, Boric Acid, Sodium Molybdate, Zinc > Sulfate, Protein Hydrolysates. > > Some components are no longer listed in the Guaranteed Analysis due to > state regulations. The formulation of this product has not be altered. > (END SNIP) > > It seems that JUST the Flourish already has most, if not all, of the > micro and macro nutrients that might be needed. I'm not sure the other > SeaChem products would be needed. The Flourish would also be adding > things that would also raise the GH level. > > On the right side of the SeaChem site, you'll see links to a Dose > Chart and also for Dosing Calculator. I think Chuck's Planted Tank > pages also has charts and calculators. > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> (Links to any articles referenced in > above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels > and also under Archives by Year, Month) > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On Behalf Of Amber Berglund > Sent: Thursday, June 25, 2009 5:09 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: Flourish products > > I've looked at the seachem site previously to see if I could find more > info than I already had, but didn't find anything new. I dosed the > tank yesterday with the new flourish products, they are not an every > day dose, the bottle says twice a week. > Honestly I prefer the ease of the walstad tanks, I'm tempted to tear > this tank down and make it a walstad tank in the future. > > Amber > > Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > > > > > > http://www.SeaChem.com <http://www.SeaChem.com> > <http://www.SeaChem.com <http://www.SeaChem.com>> makes LOTS of common > > products for aquarium. Most are good... some are not, IMO. Here's > > the list of Flourish products > > http://www.seachem.com/Products/product_pages/Flourish.html > <http://www.seachem.com/Products/product_pages/Flourish.html> > > <http://www.seachem.com/Products/product_pages/Flourish.html > <http://www.seachem.com/Products/product_pages/Flourish.html>> and an > > explanation of each. > > > > As with most bottle chemicals available at a store, DO NOT use them > > until you've done a LOT of research and you know how they will > > affect the ecosystem and chemistry in your tank. Many bottled > > products advertise themselves to do a LOT more than they can actually do... > > kind of like most stuff out there. > > > > While occasionally, a bottled product will sometimes be needed (such > > as a dechlor product), IT'S NOT GOOD TO START ADDING ALL KINDS OF > > OTHER CRAP TO OUR FISH TANKS. They are closed ecosystems and each > > added chemical goes a little further towards turning a fish tank > > into a > chemical dump site. > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>> > (Links to any articles referenced in > > above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under > > Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On Behalf Of Jasmine > > Sent: Thursday, June 25, 2009 6:20 AM > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Flourish products > > > > I've never heard of any of these. > > What is it? > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>, Amber Berglund <amber@...> > wrote: > > > > > > Does anyone out there use more than just flourish excel for their > > > fish tanks? > > > I got several of the products to see if they will make a > > > difference in my 55 gallon for the potted plants that aren't doing > > > so spiffy. I haven't tried any of them except the excel yet. > > > I got: > > > Flourish > > > Flourish trace > > > Flourish potassium > > > Flourish excel > > > Flourish iron > > > > > > Anything special that anyone wants to point out before I use any > > > of these products? (besides the flourish excel which I'm already > > > using in my 55 gallon community tank). > > > > > > Amber

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 41431	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 6/25/2009
Subject: Re: 55 gallon community tank

Poor hubby. Does that mean he doesn't get to see you in fish net stockings any more either? LOL Check with your female relatives... or maybe some of the guys LOL... and get their throw-aways when they get runs in them. I'm sure Wally-World probably sells some generic pantyhose/stockings for a buck or two. They might even sell actual filter media bags if you look around in the fish section. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Amber Berglund Sent: Thursday, June 25, 2009 9:56 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] 55 gallon community tank Nylon's what are those? LOL I think I haven't worn those since highschool ;) or at least the last time I went to the bar, years and years ago ;) LOL I will see what I can dig up, I added it to the tank for now as I didn't have anything to use as a bag on hand. I will search for nylons this weekend. Amber Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > > > I've never used crushed coral and I think it would depend on how big > the pieces are, the volume of the water, where it's put, etc.. The > smaller the pieces, the more surface area of the crushed coral that > would be exposed to the water. Are you putting in your filter or just > dropping it in the tank? > I like putting it in my filter as you get more forced and agitated > water going through the additive. Further, you can monitor how much is > dissolving when you do your weekly filter maintenance and top off the > filter media bag as needed. > > I just did a Google search for 'how much crushed coral per gallon' and > got quite a few hits to reputable sites. Here's a few of the hits. > Duplicate the search to read over even more. > > http://www.cichlidforums.com/showthread.php?t=36004 > <http://www.cichlidforums.com/showthread.php?t=36004> > > http://www.fishlore.com/fishforum/more-freshwater-aquarium-topics/4890 > -crush > <http://www.fishlore.com/fishforum/more-freshwater-aquarium-topics/489 > 0-crush> > ed-coral-freshwater.html > > http://www.frontosa.com/viewtopic.php?p=14010 > <http://www.frontosa.com/viewtopic.php?p=14010> > > If you do not have filter media bags, then sections of > stockings/nylons will work. There's a way to recycle stockings/nylons > that have runs in them.... > to make the greenies happy. ;-) > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> (Links to any articles referenced in > above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels > and also under Archives by Year, Month) > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On Behalf Of Amber Berglund > Sent: Thursday, June 25, 2009 5:55 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Subject: [AquaticLife] 55 gallon community tank > > I tested my 55 gallon community tank today to see how the KH and GH > are since I keep chunks of coral in the tank, well apparently the > coral isn't breaking down fast enough so there's only 4 drop for GH > (3-6=50-100ppm), and only 1 drop of KH still, same as my tap water. > I added a couple handfulls of crushed coral to the tank to see if that > will help the KH or GH at all. I have calcium that I can add to the > tank which has calcium chloride listed as the ingredient, what will > that do to the water parameters? > oh and my pH is 6 still, always has been. > So if I add enough crushed coral to the tank to keep my buffering > capacity up then I should theoretically slowly end up with a pH closer > to 6.8 like my baseline tapwater? Will a couple handfulls be enough or > should I add more? I added it into the gravel for now as I have > nothing to bag it up with and put it into the filter itself. > > Amber

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 41432	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 6/25/2009
Subject: Re: Flourish products

I don't have any anacharis in the tank, I had a valisneria but I removed it when it melted from the flourish excel, it's starting to regrow in another tank now. I have a couple of types of crypts, a type of Echinodorus (sword), and something I'm not sure what it is, looks like a grass, it's a rooted plant, grows slowly so far. And I have a golden nesaea which is recovering nicely with the added flourish excel (new pink growth on top). And I have a plant that's a pond plant that's called "four leaf clover" I'm not sure on the scientific name. And I have a bunch of java moss throughout the tank, some on rocks, some on driftwood, some stuck to decorations that I left there to grow ;) Oh and I have a java fern, and some "dwarf baby tears" that doesn't seem to be doing so well, I think it needs more nutrients than the gravel provides. I also have a little bit of what I think is microsword growing in a pot with another sword in it too (both small swords). In total there are 7 potted plants, floating duck weed, a couple pieces of floating nesaea that I trimmed and is regrowing roots that I plan on planting in the 125 gallon tank later, and lots of algae ;) LOL. Actually the hair algae is much less prevalent in the tank than it was a little over a week ago when I started the flourish excel, there's a definite difference. Amber Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > > > For the raising of KH only, you can use Baking Soda (Sodium > Bicarbonate) and > this site with a calculator. > http://dataguru.org/misc/aquarium/calKH.asp > <http://dataguru.org/misc/aquarium/calKH.asp> > > You should probably return the Flourish Trace, Potassium, Excel and Iron > since the basic Flourish has all of these things... well not the CO2 from > the Excel but since you have plants that would be adversely affected by > Excel, you don't really want to use it. Of course, you could Google to see > if half-dosing or some other lesser dosing of Excel might not harm the > Anacharis. I think you mentioned another plant (maybe Valisneria?) too but > the FAQ's on Excel's webpage only mentions its potential harm to > Anacharis. > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right > side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) > > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On > Behalf Of Amber Berglund > Sent: Thursday, June 25, 2009 9:54 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: Flourish products > > I want something that raises KH mostly, and doesn't get used up fast... > what are my options? LOL > I thought calcium carbonate is what I wanted, but am I wrong? > > Amber > > Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > > > > > > Well, this page, just on Flourish > > http://www.seachem.com/Products/product_pages/Flourish.html, > <http://www.seachem.com/Products/product_pages/Flourish.html,> > > <http://www.seachem.com/Products/product_pages/Flourish.html, > <http://www.seachem.com/Products/product_pages/Flourish.html,>> gives > > it's ingredients and guaranteed analysis. On the lower right, you can > > also download the MSDS in PDF format which would possibly give more > info. > > > > Here's a snip from the page: > > > > Guaranteed Analysis > > Total Nitrogen 0.07% > > Available Phosphate ( P2O5) 0.01% > > Soluble Potash 0.37% > > Calcium (Ca) 0.14% > > Magnesium (Mg) 0.11% > > Sulfur (S) 0.2773% > > Boron (B) 0.009% > > Chlorine (Cl) 1.15% > > Cobalt (Co) 0.0004% > > Copper (Cu) 0.0001% > > Iron (Fe) 0.32% > > Manganese (Mn) 0.0118% > > Molybdenum (Mo) 0.0009% > > Sodium (Na) 0.13% > > Zinc (Zn) 0.0007% > > > > Derived from: Potassium Chloride, Calcium Chloride, Copper Sulfate, > > Magnesium Chloride, Ferrous Gluconate, Cobalt Sulfate, Magnesium > > Sulfate, Manganese Sulfate, Boric Acid, Sodium Molybdate, Zinc > > Sulfate, Protein Hydrolysates. > > > > Some components are no longer listed in the Guaranteed Analysis due to > > state regulations. The formulation of this product has not be altered. > > (END SNIP) > > > > It seems that JUST the Flourish already has most, if not all, of the > > micro and macro nutrients that might be needed. I'm not sure the other > > SeaChem products would be needed. The Flourish would also be adding > > things that would also raise the GH level. > > > > On the right side of the SeaChem site, you'll see links to a Dose > > Chart and also for Dosing Calculator. I think Chuck's Planted Tank > > pages also has charts and calculators. > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>> > (Links to any articles referenced in > > above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels > > and also under Archives by Year, Month) > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On Behalf Of Amber Berglund > > Sent: Thursday, June 25, 2009 5:09 PM > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: Flourish products > > > > I've looked at the seachem site previously to see if I could find more > > info than I already had, but didn't find anything new. I dosed the > > tank yesterday with the new flourish products, they are not an every > > day dose, the bottle says twice a week. > > Honestly I prefer the ease of the walstad tanks, I'm tempted to tear > > this tank down and make it a walstad tank in the future. > > > > Amber > > > > Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > > > > > > > > > http://www.SeaChem.com <http://www.SeaChem.com> > <http://www.SeaChem.com <http://www.SeaChem.com>> > > <http://www.SeaChem.com <http://www.SeaChem.com> > <http://www.SeaChem.com <http://www.SeaChem.com>>> makes LOTS of common > > > products for aquarium. Most are good... some are not, IMO. Here's > > > the list of Flourish products > > > http://www.seachem.com/Products/product_pages/Flourish.html > <http://www.seachem.com/Products/product_pages/Flourish.html> > > <http://www.seachem.com/Products/product_pages/Flourish.html > <http://www.seachem.com/Products/product_pages/Flourish.html>> > > > <http://www.seachem.com/Products/product_pages/Flourish.html > <http://www.seachem.com/Products/product_pages/Flourish.html> > > <http://www.seachem.com/Products/product_pages/Flourish.html > <http://www.seachem.com/Products/product_pages/Flourish.html>>> and an > > > explanation of each. > > > > > > As with most bottle chemicals available at a store, DO NOT use them > > > until you've done a LOT of research and you know how they will > > > affect the ecosystem and chemistry in your tank. Many bottled > > > products advertise themselves to do a LOT more than they can actually > do... > > > kind of like most stuff out there. > > > > > > While occasionally, a bottled product will sometimes be needed (such > > > as a dechlor product), IT'S NOT GOOD TO START ADDING ALL KINDS OF > > > OTHER CRAP TO OUR FISH TANKS. They are closed ecosystems and each > > > added chemical goes a little further towards turning a fish tank > > > into a > > chemical dump site. > > > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>> > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>>> > > (Links to any articles referenced in > > > above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under > > > Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On Behalf Of Jasmine > > > Sent: Thursday, June 25, 2009 6:20 AM > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Flourish products > > > > > > I've never heard of any of these. > > > What is it? > > > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>, Amber Berglund <amber@...> > > wrote: > > > > > > > > Does anyone out there use more than just flourish excel for their > > > > fish tanks? > > > > I got several of the products to see if they will make a > > > > difference in my 55 gallon for the potted plants that aren't doing > > > > so spiffy. I haven't tried any of them except the excel yet. > > > > I got: > > > > Flourish > > > > Flourish trace > > > > Flourish potassium > > > > Flourish excel > > > > Flourish iron > > > > > > > > Anything special that anyone wants to point out before I use any > > > > of these products? (besides the flourish excel which I'm already > > > > using in my 55 gallon community tank). > > > > > > > > Amber > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 41433	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 6/25/2009
Subject: Re: 55 gallon community tank

I will check with friends and see what I can find, and no fish net stockings for the hubby, besides those would be horrible for holding crushed coral ;) LOL. I did a test today to see if the crushed coral did anything to the pH. I added 3 small handfulls to the tank (in the gravel), then I did a 20% PWC with dechlor. This was at lunch about 5 hours ago. I just did another 20% PWC about 10 minutes ago and tested the pH a minute or so a go, the pH has not changed since the test I did this afternoon. How long should I wait to test the GH and KH and see if it's changed from the crushed coral? Is there anything other than baking soda that can be used to raise the GH and not have to dose every day? such as something slower releasing like the crushed coral is ;) Amber Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > > > Poor hubby. Does that mean he doesn't get to see you in fish net stockings > any more either? LOL Check with your female relatives... or maybe some of > the guys LOL... and get their throw-aways when they get runs in them. I'm > sure Wally-World probably sells some generic pantyhose/stockings for a > buck > or two. They might even sell actual filter media bags if you look > around in > the fish section. > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right > side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On > Behalf Of Amber Berglund > Sent: Thursday, June 25, 2009 9:56 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] 55 gallon community tank > > Nylon's what are those? LOL > I think I haven't worn those since highschool ;) or at least the last > time I > went to the bar, years and years ago ;) LOL I will see what I can dig > up, I > added it to the tank for now as I didn't have anything to use as a bag on > hand. I will search for nylons this weekend. > > Amber > > Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > > > > > > I've never used crushed coral and I think it would depend on how big > > the pieces are, the volume of the water, where it's put, etc.. The > > smaller the pieces, the more surface area of the crushed coral that > > would be exposed to the water. Are you putting in your filter or just > > dropping it in the tank? > > I like putting it in my filter as you get more forced and agitated > > water going through the additive. Further, you can monitor how much is > > dissolving when you do your weekly filter maintenance and top off the > > filter media bag as needed. > > > > I just did a Google search for 'how much crushed coral per gallon' and > > got quite a few hits to reputable sites. Here's a few of the hits. > > Duplicate the search to read over even more. > > > > http://www.cichlidforums.com/showthread.php?t=36004 > <http://www.cichlidforums.com/showthread.php?t=36004> > > <http://www.cichlidforums.com/showthread.php?t=36004 > <http://www.cichlidforums.com/showthread.php?t=36004>> > > > > > http://www.fishlore.com/fishforum/more-freshwater-aquarium-topics/4890 > <http://www.fishlore.com/fishforum/more-freshwater-aquarium-topics/4890> > > -crush > > > <http://www.fishlore.com/fishforum/more-freshwater-aquarium-topics/489 > <http://www.fishlore.com/fishforum/more-freshwater-aquarium-topics/489> > > 0-crush> > > ed-coral-freshwater.html > > > > http://www.frontosa.com/viewtopic.php?p=14010 > <http://www.frontosa.com/viewtopic.php?p=14010> > > <http://www.frontosa.com/viewtopic.php?p=14010 > <http://www.frontosa.com/viewtopic.php?p=14010>> > > > > If you do not have filter media bags, then sections of > > stockings/nylons will work. There's a way to recycle stockings/nylons > > that have runs in them.... > > to make the greenies happy. ;-) > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>> > (Links to any articles referenced in > > above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels > > and also under Archives by Year, Month) > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On Behalf Of Amber Berglund > > Sent: Thursday, June 25, 2009 5:55 PM > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > Subject: [AquaticLife] 55 gallon community tank > > > > I tested my 55 gallon community tank today to see how the KH and GH > > are since I keep chunks of coral in the tank, well apparently the > > coral isn't breaking down fast enough so there's only 4 drop for GH > > (3-6=50-100ppm), and only 1 drop of KH still, same as my tap water. > > I added a couple handfulls of crushed coral to the tank to see if that > > will help the KH or GH at all. I have calcium that I can add to the > > tank which has calcium chloride listed as the ingredient, what will > > that do to the water parameters? > > oh and my pH is 6 still, always has been. > > So if I add enough crushed coral to the tank to keep my buffering > > capacity up then I should theoretically slowly end up with a pH closer > > to 6.8 like my baseline tapwater? Will a couple handfulls be enough or > > should I add more? I added it into the gravel for now as I have > > nothing to bag it up with and put it into the filter itself. > > > > Amber > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 41434	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 6/25/2009
Subject: Re: 55 gallon community tank

OK. If the crushed coral is raising it up from the 33ppm range to the 75ppm range, then you are probably going to be OK. Crushed coral can/should raise both since crushed coral is supposed to be calcium carbonate also. Here's a snip from my calculations post in the Ponds-Koi forum. Of course, this snip is dealing with something like Oyster Flour which is immediately dissolvable in the water column, not something you have to wait to break down like crushed coral. The Carbonate could be dissolving so slowly that your tank's ecology is using it up faster or as fast as it is being released. > > "...Two teaspoons (about 4 grams) of calcium carbonate > > (CaCO3) per 50 liters of water will increase both KH and GH by 4 > > degrees..." from http://www.thekrib.com/Plants/CO2/khgh.html and since > > raising it 4 degrees is kind of where we want to raise it since it has > > 1 degree already, it's just a matter of doing a little more math. If you are going to be using/dosing your tank from now on, you might want to price how much 5 lbs. of crushed coral costs and compare it to Oyster Flour. My initial thoughts are that Oyster shells are a LOT cheaper than coral... so their ground or crushed by-products should also be comparably priced. A quick search found Oyster Shell Flour on one site for $19.95 for a 25 lb. bag. http://www.mycopath.com/index.php?main_page=product_info&products_id=25 And a 40 lb. bag of CaribSea Crushed Coral for a similar price of $19.99 http://www.bigalsonline.com/BigAlsUS/ctl3684/cp18315/si1379469/cl0/caribseac rushedcoral40lbs I guess my theory that Oyster Shells should be cheaper isn't holding up... of course, that site with the Oyster Shell Flour may be way overpriced. Oh yeah... AND THE MORAL TO THIS STORY: Oysters are just butt-ugly miniature coral reefs. ;-) Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Amber Berglund Sent: Thursday, June 25, 2009 9:58 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] 55 gallon community tank My GH doesn't seem that low though, especially with the coral chunks and shells in the tank... or am I wrong? 4 drops is what the test was earlier for GH, before I added some of the crushed coral (which is the consistency of slightly larger than sand you would find on the beach). Will crushed coral only raise GH or will it raise both KH and GH? Amber Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > > > I actually calculated the proper dosing of Oyster Flour quite a while > back in one of the Pond Forums that I participate in. If Amber decides > to go that route, I'll dig up my old post and re-post it here or put > it on my blog. > > Actually, a search of that group found the thread easy enough. Lately, > I don't have much confidence in Yahoo Group's searching but it worked > this time. Here's the thread. Read all the way through since I forgot > to carry a one in one of my earlier computations but caught it right > away and corrected it in my next post. > > Ol' Bill, you would like the Bill in that forum. He's a character too > (yeah I know... I'm the pot calling the kettle black), as you'll see > in the thread. I'm not sure what happened to the Bill in that forum. > He hasn't replied in a while. I hope he's OK. > > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Ponds-Koi/message/29647 > <http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Ponds-Koi/message/29647> > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> (Links to any articles referenced in > above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels > and also under Archives by Year, Month) > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On Behalf Of bill 1433 > Sent: Thursday, June 25, 2009 6:06 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] 55 gallon community tank > > Amber, > > I'm getting here that you want to increase GH and KH? > > See if you can locate a product called Oyster Flour. You can most > likely find it at Feed and Grain Stores or Landscaping shops. Take > your time and add very slowly to your water and check it each day > before adding more. I used one level teaspoon at a time each day > until I started to see change then only 1/2 teaspoon until I got exactly where I wanted to be. > > Bill > > --- On Thu, 6/25/09, Amber Berglund <amber@... > <mailto:amber%40rose-fields.com>> wrote: > > > From: Amber Berglund <amber@... > <mailto:amber%40rose-fields.com>> > > Subject: [AquaticLife] 55 gallon community tank > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > Date: Thursday, June 25, 2009, 6:55 PM I tested my 55 gallon > > community tank today to see how the KH and GH are since I keep > > chunks of coral in the tank, well apparently the coral isn't > > breaking down fast enough so there's only 4 drop for GH > > (3-6=50-100ppm), and only 1 drop of KH still, same as my tap water. > > I added a couple handfulls of crushed coral to the tank to see if > > that will help the KH or GH at all. I have calcium that I can add to > > the tank which has calcium chloride listed as the ingredient, what > > will that do to the water parameters? > > oh and my pH is 6 still, always has been. > > So if I add enough crushed coral to the tank to keep my buffering > > capacity up then I should theoretically slowly end up with a pH > > closer to 6.8 like my baseline tapwater? Will a couple handfulls be > > enough or should I add more? I added it into the gravel for now as I > > have nothing to bag it up with and put it into the filter itself. > > > > Amber > > ------------------------------------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the home page. Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com to receive the digest, which includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com for the No E-Mail option where you will still be able to read messages on the group and post replies. Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com to receive individual e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 41435	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 6/25/2009
Subject: Re: 55 gallon community tank

I have a garbage can full of crushed coral ;) LOL. That's going to last me awhile for now, and it's free. I will figure out something different when I run low on the crushed coral ;) Also no one answered my question about calcium chloride, what does it affect? GH or KH? I bought it for when I have the snails, wanted to have calcium on hand. Amber Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > > > OK. If the crushed coral is raising it up from the 33ppm range to the > 75ppm > range, then you are probably going to be OK. > > Crushed coral can/should raise both since crushed coral is supposed to be > calcium carbonate also. > > Here's a snip from my calculations post in the Ponds-Koi forum. Of course, > this snip is dealing with something like Oyster Flour which is immediately > dissolvable in the water column, not something you have to wait to break > down like crushed coral. The Carbonate could be dissolving so slowly that > your tank's ecology is using it up faster or as fast as it is being > released. > > > > "...Two teaspoons (about 4 grams) of calcium carbonate > > > (CaCO3) per 50 liters of water will increase both KH and GH by 4 > > > degrees..." from http://www.thekrib.com/Plants/CO2/khgh.html > <http://www.thekrib.com/Plants/CO2/khgh.html> and since > > > raising it 4 degrees is kind of where we want to raise it since it has > > > 1 degree already, it's just a matter of doing a little more math. > > If you are going to be using/dosing your tank from now on, you might > want to > price how much 5 lbs. of crushed coral costs and compare it to Oyster > Flour. > My initial thoughts are that Oyster shells are a LOT cheaper than coral... > so their ground or crushed by-products should also be comparably priced. > > A quick search found Oyster Shell Flour on one site for $19.95 for a > 25 lb. > bag. > http://www.mycopath.com/index.php?main_page=product_info&products_id=25 > <http://www.mycopath.com/index.php?main_page=product_info&products_id=25> > > And a 40 lb. bag of CaribSea Crushed Coral for a similar price of $19.99 > http://www.bigalsonline.com/BigAlsUS/ctl3684/cp18315/si1379469/cl0/caribseac > <http://www.bigalsonline.com/BigAlsUS/ctl3684/cp18315/si1379469/cl0/caribseac> > rushedcoral40lbs > > I guess my theory that Oyster Shells should be cheaper isn't holding up... > of course, that site with the Oyster Shell Flour may be way overpriced. > > Oh yeah... AND THE MORAL TO THIS STORY: Oysters are just butt-ugly > miniature coral reefs. ;-) > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right > side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On > Behalf Of Amber Berglund > Sent: Thursday, June 25, 2009 9:58 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] 55 gallon community tank > > My GH doesn't seem that low though, especially with the coral chunks and > shells in the tank... or am I wrong? 4 drops is what the test was earlier > for GH, before I added some of the crushed coral (which is the consistency > of slightly larger than sand you would find on the beach). > Will crushed coral only raise GH or will it raise both KH and GH? > > Amber > > Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > > > > > > I actually calculated the proper dosing of Oyster Flour quite a while > > back in one of the Pond Forums that I participate in. If Amber decides > > to go that route, I'll dig up my old post and re-post it here or put > > it on my blog. > > > > Actually, a search of that group found the thread easy enough. Lately, > > I don't have much confidence in Yahoo Group's searching but it worked > > this time. Here's the thread. Read all the way through since I forgot > > to carry a one in one of my earlier computations but caught it right > > away and corrected it in my next post. > > > > Ol' Bill, you would like the Bill in that forum. He's a character too > > (yeah I know... I'm the pot calling the kettle black), as you'll see > > in the thread. I'm not sure what happened to the Bill in that forum. > > He hasn't replied in a while. I hope he's OK. > > > > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Ponds-Koi/message/29647 > <http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Ponds-Koi/message/29647> > > <http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Ponds-Koi/message/29647 > <http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Ponds-Koi/message/29647>> > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>> > (Links to any articles referenced in > > above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels > > and also under Archives by Year, Month) > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On Behalf Of bill 1433 > > Sent: Thursday, June 25, 2009 6:06 PM > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] 55 gallon community tank > > > > Amber, > > > > I'm getting here that you want to increase GH and KH? > > > > See if you can locate a product called Oyster Flour. You can most > > likely find it at Feed and Grain Stores or Landscaping shops. Take > > your time and add very slowly to your water and check it each day > > before adding more. I used one level teaspoon at a time each day > > until I started to see change then only 1/2 teaspoon until I got exactly > where I wanted to be. > > > > Bill > > > > --- On Thu, 6/25/09, Amber Berglund <amber@... > <mailto:amber%40rose-fields.com> > > <mailto:amber%40rose-fields.com>> wrote: > > > > > From: Amber Berglund <amber@... > <mailto:amber%40rose-fields.com> > > <mailto:amber%40rose-fields.com>> > > > Subject: [AquaticLife] 55 gallon community tank > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > Date: Thursday, June 25, 2009, 6:55 PM I tested my 55 gallon > > > community tank today to see how the KH and GH are since I keep > > > chunks of coral in the tank, well apparently the coral isn't > > > breaking down fast enough so there's only 4 drop for GH > > > (3-6=50-100ppm), and only 1 drop of KH still, same as my tap water. > > > I added a couple handfulls of crushed coral to the tank to see if > > > that will help the KH or GH at all. I have calcium that I can add to > > > the tank which has calcium chloride listed as the ingredient, what > > > will that do to the water parameters? > > > oh and my pH is 6 still, always has been. > > > So if I add enough crushed coral to the tank to keep my buffering > > > capacity up then I should theoretically slowly end up with a pH > > > closer to 6.8 like my baseline tapwater? Will a couple handfulls be > > > enough or should I add more? I added it into the gravel for now as I > > > have nothing to bag it up with and put it into the filter itself. > > > > > > Amber > > > > > > ------------------------------------ > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. > ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> > PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to > the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the > SUBJECT > LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- > <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. > > If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of unsubscribing, you > can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the > home page. > > Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:aquaticlife-digest%40yahoogroups.com> to receive the digest, which > includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email > > Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:aquaticlife-nomail%40yahoogroups.com> for the No E-Mail option > where > you will still be able to read messages on the group and post replies. > > Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:aquaticlife-normal%40yahoogroups.com> to receive individual > e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 41436	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 6/25/2009
Subject: Re: 55 gallon community tank

Well, you wouldn't have to dose the Baking Soda every day. Once you slowly bring up your KH in your main tank, then you would just have to dose the new water going in with your weekly PWC's. This article http://www.americanaquariumproducts.com/AquariumKH.html recommends using SeaChem Alkaline Buffer... ALKALINE BUFFER 250 gr. (10.6 oz.) - $6.99 Alkaline BufferT is a non-phosphate buffer to raise pH and alkalinity (KH) in planted aquariums. Alkaline Buffer raises pH and buffers between 7.2 and 8.5. It is gentle, safe, and enhances the freshwater environment. I recommend this buffer when keeping aquatic plants, although this buffer does not have the other elements provided that Marine buffer has and therefore KH needs to be checked more regularly (as you would with even less stable Baking Soda). Alkaline Buffer is a straight Buffer, unlike Marine, Malawi, or Tanganyika which have a chemistry to raise the pH to a certain value while increasing KH (when used at full strength) (END SNIP) I'm not sure of any other products that would have a controlled dissolving rate but I'm sure they must be out there. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Amber Berglund Sent: Thursday, June 25, 2009 10:24 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] 55 gallon community tank I will check with friends and see what I can find, and no fish net stockings for the hubby, besides those would be horrible for holding crushed coral ;) LOL. I did a test today to see if the crushed coral did anything to the pH. I added 3 small handfulls to the tank (in the gravel), then I did a 20% PWC with dechlor. This was at lunch about 5 hours ago. I just did another 20% PWC about 10 minutes ago and tested the pH a minute or so a go, the pH has not changed since the test I did this afternoon. How long should I wait to test the GH and KH and see if it's changed from the crushed coral? Is there anything other than baking soda that can be used to raise the GH and not have to dose every day? such as something slower releasing like the crushed coral is ;) Amber Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > > > Poor hubby. Does that mean he doesn't get to see you in fish net stockings > any more either? LOL Check with your female relatives... or maybe some of > the guys LOL... and get their throw-aways when they get runs in them. I'm > sure Wally-World probably sells some generic pantyhose/stockings for a > buck > or two. They might even sell actual filter media bags if you look > around in > the fish section. > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right > side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On > Behalf Of Amber Berglund > Sent: Thursday, June 25, 2009 9:56 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] 55 gallon community tank > > Nylon's what are those? LOL > I think I haven't worn those since highschool ;) or at least the last > time I > went to the bar, years and years ago ;) LOL I will see what I can dig > up, I > added it to the tank for now as I didn't have anything to use as a bag on > hand. I will search for nylons this weekend. > > Amber > > Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > > > > > > I've never used crushed coral and I think it would depend on how big > > the pieces are, the volume of the water, where it's put, etc.. The > > smaller the pieces, the more surface area of the crushed coral that > > would be exposed to the water. Are you putting in your filter or just > > dropping it in the tank? > > I like putting it in my filter as you get more forced and agitated > > water going through the additive. Further, you can monitor how much is > > dissolving when you do your weekly filter maintenance and top off the > > filter media bag as needed. > > > > I just did a Google search for 'how much crushed coral per gallon' and > > got quite a few hits to reputable sites. Here's a few of the hits. > > Duplicate the search to read over even more. > > > > http://www.cichlidforums.com/showthread.php?t=36004 > <http://www.cichlidforums.com/showthread.php?t=36004> > > <http://www.cichlidforums.com/showthread.php?t=36004 > <http://www.cichlidforums.com/showthread.php?t=36004>> > > > > > http://www.fishlore.com/fishforum/more-freshwater-aquarium-topics/4890 > <http://www.fishlore.com/fishforum/more-freshwater-aquarium-topics/4890> > > -crush > > > <http://www.fishlore.com/fishforum/more-freshwater-aquarium-topics/489 > <http://www.fishlore.com/fishforum/more-freshwater-aquarium-topics/489> > > 0-crush> > > ed-coral-freshwater.html > > > > http://www.frontosa.com/viewtopic.php?p=14010 > <http://www.frontosa.com/viewtopic.php?p=14010> > > <http://www.frontosa.com/viewtopic.php?p=14010 > <http://www.frontosa.com/viewtopic.php?p=14010>> > > > > If you do not have filter media bags, then sections of > > stockings/nylons will work. There's a way to recycle stockings/nylons > > that have runs in them.... > > to make the greenies happy. ;-) > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>> > (Links to any articles referenced in > > above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels > > and also under Archives by Year, Month) > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On Behalf Of Amber Berglund > > Sent: Thursday, June 25, 2009 5:55 PM > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > Subject: [AquaticLife] 55 gallon community tank > > > > I tested my 55 gallon community tank today to see how the KH and GH > > are since I keep chunks of coral in the tank, well apparently the > > coral isn't breaking down fast enough so there's only 4 drop for GH > > (3-6=50-100ppm), and only 1 drop of KH still, same as my tap water. > > I added a couple handfulls of crushed coral to the tank to see if that > > will help the KH or GH at all. I have calcium that I can add to the > > tank which has calcium chloride listed as the ingredient, what will > > that do to the water parameters? > > oh and my pH is 6 still, always has been. > > So if I add enough crushed coral to the tank to keep my buffering > > capacity up then I should theoretically slowly end up with a pH closer > > to 6.8 like my baseline tapwater? Will a couple handfulls be enough or > > should I add more? I added it into the gravel for now as I have > > nothing to bag it up with and put it into the filter itself. > > > > Amber

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 41437	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 6/25/2009
Subject: Re: 55 gallon community tank

Calcium would affect GH. I'm not going to ask which reef you destroyed for that garbage can full of crushed coral.... and hopefully the reef-huggers aren't reading this thread. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Amber Berglund Sent: Thursday, June 25, 2009 10:58 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] 55 gallon community tank I have a garbage can full of crushed coral ;) LOL. That's going to last me awhile for now, and it's free. I will figure out something different when I run low on the crushed coral ;) Also no one answered my question about calcium chloride, what does it affect? GH or KH? I bought it for when I have the snails, wanted to have calcium on hand. Amber Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > > > OK. If the crushed coral is raising it up from the 33ppm range to the > 75ppm range, then you are probably going to be OK. > > Crushed coral can/should raise both since crushed coral is supposed to > be calcium carbonate also. > > Here's a snip from my calculations post in the Ponds-Koi forum. Of > course, this snip is dealing with something like Oyster Flour which is > immediately dissolvable in the water column, not something you have to > wait to break down like crushed coral. The Carbonate could be > dissolving so slowly that your tank's ecology is using it up faster or > as fast as it is being released. > > > > "...Two teaspoons (about 4 grams) of calcium carbonate > > > (CaCO3) per 50 liters of water will increase both KH and GH by 4 > > > degrees..." from http://www.thekrib.com/Plants/CO2/khgh.html > <http://www.thekrib.com/Plants/CO2/khgh.html> and since > > > raising it 4 degrees is kind of where we want to raise it since it > > > has > > > 1 degree already, it's just a matter of doing a little more math. > > If you are going to be using/dosing your tank from now on, you might > want to price how much 5 lbs. of crushed coral costs and compare it to > Oyster Flour. > My initial thoughts are that Oyster shells are a LOT cheaper than coral... > so their ground or crushed by-products should also be comparably priced. > > A quick search found Oyster Shell Flour on one site for $19.95 for a > 25 lb. > bag. > http://www.mycopath.com/index.php?main_page=product_info&products_id=2 > 5 > <http://www.mycopath.com/index.php?main_page=product_info&products_id= > 25> > > And a 40 lb. bag of CaribSea Crushed Coral for a similar price of > $19.99 > http://www.bigalsonline.com/BigAlsUS/ctl3684/cp18315/si1379469/cl0/car > ibseac > <http://www.bigalsonline.com/BigAlsUS/ctl3684/cp18315/si1379469/cl0/ca > ribseac> > rushedcoral40lbs > > I guess my theory that Oyster Shells should be cheaper isn't holding up... > of course, that site with the Oyster Shell Flour may be way overpriced. > > Oh yeah... AND THE MORAL TO THIS STORY: Oysters are just butt-ugly > miniature coral reefs. ;-) > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> (Links to any articles referenced in > above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels > and also under Archives by Year, Month) > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On Behalf Of Amber Berglund > Sent: Thursday, June 25, 2009 9:58 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] 55 gallon community tank > > My GH doesn't seem that low though, especially with the coral chunks > and shells in the tank... or am I wrong? 4 drops is what the test was > earlier for GH, before I added some of the crushed coral (which is the > consistency of slightly larger than sand you would find on the beach). > Will crushed coral only raise GH or will it raise both KH and GH? > > Amber > > Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > > > > > > I actually calculated the proper dosing of Oyster Flour quite a > > while back in one of the Pond Forums that I participate in. If Amber > > decides to go that route, I'll dig up my old post and re-post it > > here or put it on my blog. > > > > Actually, a search of that group found the thread easy enough. > > Lately, I don't have much confidence in Yahoo Group's searching but > > it worked this time. Here's the thread. Read all the way through > > since I forgot to carry a one in one of my earlier computations but > > caught it right away and corrected it in my next post. > > > > Ol' Bill, you would like the Bill in that forum. He's a character > > too (yeah I know... I'm the pot calling the kettle black), as you'll > > see in the thread. I'm not sure what happened to the Bill in that forum. > > He hasn't replied in a while. I hope he's OK. > > > > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Ponds-Koi/message/29647 > <http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Ponds-Koi/message/29647> > > <http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Ponds-Koi/message/29647 > <http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Ponds-Koi/message/29647>> > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>> > (Links to any articles referenced in > > above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under > > Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On Behalf Of bill 1433 > > Sent: Thursday, June 25, 2009 6:06 PM > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] 55 gallon community tank > > > > Amber, > > > > I'm getting here that you want to increase GH and KH? > > > > See if you can locate a product called Oyster Flour. You can most > > likely find it at Feed and Grain Stores or Landscaping shops. Take > > your time and add very slowly to your water and check it each day > > before adding more. I used one level teaspoon at a time each day > > until I started to see change then only 1/2 teaspoon until I got > > exactly > where I wanted to be. > > > > Bill > > > > --- On Thu, 6/25/09, Amber Berglund <amber@... > <mailto:amber%40rose-fields.com> > > <mailto:amber%40rose-fields.com>> wrote: > > > > > From: Amber Berglund <amber@... > <mailto:amber%40rose-fields.com> > > <mailto:amber%40rose-fields.com>> > > > Subject: [AquaticLife] 55 gallon community tank > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > Date: Thursday, June 25, 2009, 6:55 PM I tested my 55 gallon > > > community tank today to see how the KH and GH are since I keep > > > chunks of coral in the tank, well apparently the coral isn't > > > breaking down fast enough so there's only 4 drop for GH > > > (3-6=50-100ppm), and only 1 drop of KH still, same as my tap water. > > > I added a couple handfulls of crushed coral to the tank to see if > > > that will help the KH or GH at all. I have calcium that I can add > > > to the tank which has calcium chloride listed as the ingredient, > > > what will that do to the water parameters? > > > oh and my pH is 6 still, always has been. > > > So if I add enough crushed coral to the tank to keep my buffering > > > capacity up then I should theoretically slowly end up with a pH > > > closer to 6.8 like my baseline tapwater? Will a couple handfulls > > > be enough or should I add more? I added it into the gravel for now > > > as I have nothing to bag it up with and put it into the filter itself. > > > > > > Amber

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 41438	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 6/25/2009
Subject: Re: 55 gallon community tank

I didn't destroy anything, it was given to me by the previous owner of the 125 gallon tank, she was going to throw it away so I said i would take it off of her hands, figured it may come in handy some day ;) Amber Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > > > Calcium would affect GH. > > I'm not going to ask which reef you destroyed for that garbage can full of > crushed coral.... and hopefully the reef-huggers aren't reading this > thread. > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right > side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) > > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On > Behalf Of Amber Berglund > Sent: Thursday, June 25, 2009 10:58 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] 55 gallon community tank > > I have a garbage can full of crushed coral ;) LOL. > That's going to last me awhile for now, and it's free. > I will figure out something different when I run low on the crushed > coral ;) > > Also no one answered my question about calcium chloride, what does it > affect? GH or KH? I bought it for when I have the snails, wanted to have > calcium on hand. > > Amber > > Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > > > > > > OK. If the crushed coral is raising it up from the 33ppm range to the > > 75ppm range, then you are probably going to be OK. > > > > Crushed coral can/should raise both since crushed coral is supposed to > > be calcium carbonate also. > > > > Here's a snip from my calculations post in the Ponds-Koi forum. Of > > course, this snip is dealing with something like Oyster Flour which is > > immediately dissolvable in the water column, not something you have to > > wait to break down like crushed coral. The Carbonate could be > > dissolving so slowly that your tank's ecology is using it up faster or > > as fast as it is being released. > > > > > > "...Two teaspoons (about 4 grams) of calcium carbonate > > > > (CaCO3) per 50 liters of water will increase both KH and GH by 4 > > > > degrees..." from http://www.thekrib.com/Plants/CO2/khgh.html > <http://www.thekrib.com/Plants/CO2/khgh.html> > > <http://www.thekrib.com/Plants/CO2/khgh.html > <http://www.thekrib.com/Plants/CO2/khgh.html>> and since > > > > raising it 4 degrees is kind of where we want to raise it since it > > > > has > > > > 1 degree already, it's just a matter of doing a little more math. > > > > If you are going to be using/dosing your tank from now on, you might > > want to price how much 5 lbs. of crushed coral costs and compare it to > > Oyster Flour. > > My initial thoughts are that Oyster shells are a LOT cheaper than > coral... > > so their ground or crushed by-products should also be comparably priced. > > > > A quick search found Oyster Shell Flour on one site for $19.95 for a > > 25 lb. > > bag. > > > http://www.mycopath.com/index.php?main_page=product_info&products_id=2 > <http://www.mycopath.com/index.php?main_page=product_info&products_id=2> > > 5 > > > <http://www.mycopath.com/index.php?main_page=product_info&products_id= > <http://www.mycopath.com/index.php?main_page=product_info&products_id=> > > 25> > > > > And a 40 lb. bag of CaribSea Crushed Coral for a similar price of > > $19.99 > > > http://www.bigalsonline.com/BigAlsUS/ctl3684/cp18315/si1379469/cl0/car > <http://www.bigalsonline.com/BigAlsUS/ctl3684/cp18315/si1379469/cl0/car> > > ibseac > > > <http://www.bigalsonline.com/BigAlsUS/ctl3684/cp18315/si1379469/cl0/ca > <http://www.bigalsonline.com/BigAlsUS/ctl3684/cp18315/si1379469/cl0/ca> > > ribseac> > > rushedcoral40lbs > > > > I guess my theory that Oyster Shells should be cheaper isn't holding > up... > > of course, that site with the Oyster Shell Flour may be way overpriced. > > > > Oh yeah... AND THE MORAL TO THIS STORY: Oysters are just butt-ugly > > miniature coral reefs. ;-) > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>> > (Links to any articles referenced in > > above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels > > and also under Archives by Year, Month) > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On Behalf Of Amber Berglund > > Sent: Thursday, June 25, 2009 9:58 PM > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] 55 gallon community tank > > > > My GH doesn't seem that low though, especially with the coral chunks > > and shells in the tank... or am I wrong? 4 drops is what the test was > > earlier for GH, before I added some of the crushed coral (which is the > > consistency of slightly larger than sand you would find on the beach). > > Will crushed coral only raise GH or will it raise both KH and GH? > > > > Amber > > > > Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > > > > > > > > > I actually calculated the proper dosing of Oyster Flour quite a > > > while back in one of the Pond Forums that I participate in. If Amber > > > decides to go that route, I'll dig up my old post and re-post it > > > here or put it on my blog. > > > > > > Actually, a search of that group found the thread easy enough. > > > Lately, I don't have much confidence in Yahoo Group's searching but > > > it worked this time. Here's the thread. Read all the way through > > > since I forgot to carry a one in one of my earlier computations but > > > caught it right away and corrected it in my next post. > > > > > > Ol' Bill, you would like the Bill in that forum. He's a character > > > too (yeah I know... I'm the pot calling the kettle black), as you'll > > > see in the thread. I'm not sure what happened to the Bill in that > forum. > > > He hasn't replied in a while. I hope he's OK. > > > > > > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Ponds-Koi/message/29647 > <http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Ponds-Koi/message/29647> > > <http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Ponds-Koi/message/29647 > <http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Ponds-Koi/message/29647>> > > > <http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Ponds-Koi/message/29647 > <http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Ponds-Koi/message/29647> > > <http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Ponds-Koi/message/29647 > <http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Ponds-Koi/message/29647>>> > > > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>> > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>>> > > (Links to any articles referenced in > > > above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under > > > Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On Behalf Of bill 1433 > > > Sent: Thursday, June 25, 2009 6:06 PM > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] 55 gallon community tank > > > > > > Amber, > > > > > > I'm getting here that you want to increase GH and KH? > > > > > > See if you can locate a product called Oyster Flour. You can most > > > likely find it at Feed and Grain Stores or Landscaping shops. Take > > > your time and add very slowly to your water and check it each day > > > before adding more. I used one level teaspoon at a time each day > > > until I started to see change then only 1/2 teaspoon until I got > > > exactly > > where I wanted to be. > > > > > > Bill > > > > > > --- On Thu, 6/25/09, Amber Berglund <amber@... > <mailto:amber%40rose-fields.com> > > <mailto:amber%40rose-fields.com> > > > <mailto:amber%40rose-fields.com>> wrote: > > > > > > > From: Amber Berglund <amber@... > <mailto:amber%40rose-fields.com> > > <mailto:amber%40rose-fields.com> > > > <mailto:amber%40rose-fields.com>> > > > > Subject: [AquaticLife] 55 gallon community tank > > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > Date: Thursday, June 25, 2009, 6:55 PM I tested my 55 gallon > > > > community tank today to see how the KH and GH are since I keep > > > > chunks of coral in the tank, well apparently the coral isn't > > > > breaking down fast enough so there's only 4 drop for GH > > > > (3-6=50-100ppm), and only 1 drop of KH still, same as my tap water. > > > > I added a couple handfulls of crushed coral to the tank to see if > > > > that will help the KH or GH at all. I have calcium that I can add > > > > to the tank which has calcium chloride listed as the ingredient, > > > > what will that do to the water parameters? > > > > oh and my pH is 6 still, always has been. > > > > So if I add enough crushed coral to the tank to keep my buffering > > > > capacity up then I should theoretically slowly end up with a pH > > > > closer to 6.8 like my baseline tapwater? Will a couple handfulls > > > > be enough or should I add more? I added it into the gravel for now > > > > as I have nothing to bag it up with and put it into the filter > itself. > > > > > > > > Amber > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 41439	From: Raymond Wetzel	Date: 6/25/2009
Subject: Re: O/T - Kodachrome, etc. was: ANGELFISH, Once again

Lenny, I know exactly what you mean by filling in lyrics that just don't seem to sound distinctive enough to be understood as what they were written as. I think most of us have done that at times, going with the way it sounds to us, I know I've done that many times even if I can't think of an example right now. It just seems natural to just keep going with the way it sounds to us. Can we help it if the recording artist sings it so sloppily as to be a blur just to try to enhance the flow of his sound? I've noticed sometimes, that the only way I've learned the true words to a song is when another singer or group reissues the same song later in their style. Only then does it become evident what was said in the original recording. Yeah, it looks like good old Kodachrome (a slide film) is on its way out, although there's still Fujichrome (another slide film) being produce. In the meantime, I'm just going to have to stock up on what I like best -- Kodachrome. While all film has an expiration date, that is negated once you store your film in the freezer. I hope I have enough room left there to store food -- I also like ice cream (LOL). Ray --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@...> wrote: > > Ray, > > I saw a news blip on Fox News Channel a couple of days ago that reported > that Kodak is retiring Kodachrome. In the news blip, they mentioned Paul > Simon having written a song about Kodachrome and while I remember hearing > this song on the radio many times as a kid, I don't think I ever realized it > was a song about a roll of Kodak film. I guess I thought the song was about > a home or something like that. Before the internet, I was infamous for > making up words that fit when I couldn't tell what the artist was singing. > Heck, with James Brown, you almost had to do that. LOL > > Momma don't take my Kodachrome awayyyyyyy! I've been humming that tune the > past couple of days now. LOL http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ujhdf9_IO4w > (song) > http://www.lyricsfreak.com/p/paul+simon/kodachrome_20105962.html (lyrics) > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right > side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) > > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On > Behalf Of Raymond Wetzel > Sent: Wednesday, June 24, 2009 8:03 AM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: ANGELFISH, Once again > > Yes, I think they turned out well; took a bit of work in developing them, > but then I enjoy working in Angelfish genetics. The gene pool out there is > so vast, that many strains can be developed by working with these fish > either via the established and more obvious way (such using Black Lace to > get Black), or the more unorthodox method of obtain the Black via selection > of the pigment in Dark Marble on a solid Chocolate-patterned fish. As they > say, there's more than one way to skin a cat (or is it, catfish? LOL). > > Sorry, I don't have photos of them. If I had, and it would be on slide film > if I did (which I should see to photographing them), I would either have to > buy a slide scanner, or transfer them to a digital disk. Either way, I > wouldn't have the first notion of what to do next, as I'm not at all > computer literate enough to know how to go about posting pics -- even if I > had a digital camera. And, having 5 SLR film cameras and preferring slide > film over digital, I'm not intended to change my preferences of format. Ray > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Jasmine" <adonaikam@> wrote: > > > > WOW, your angelfish sound really nice. Do you have any photos of them? > > > > Jasmine > > > > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Raymond Wetzel" <sevenspringss@> > wrote: > > > > > > Nice looking Angelfish you have, in that dark one, even though I > couldn't call it a Black Angelfish. I'd have to call it a Black Lace with > obvious Dark Marble mixed in. Still attractive though. > > > > > > Yes, unfortunately most of the solid black Angelfish have disappeared > from the hobby. Even the "better" ones today are not pitch black and > certainly not the velvety-black of years ago. Today's "Black" Angelfish > show the dark black barring of the original wild type. > > > > > > When Joe's question on this was asked a while back, I thought I had > > > replied I was breeding them, but then maybe I had posted something > > > on that on another Forum. No longer seeing this solid velvet black > > > Angel on the market, I was concerned enough to want to do something > > > about it. Over the past years, I've been selectively line breeding > > > Chocolate Angelfish to create full coverage of the pattern on the > > > fish. At the same time, I've also been selectively line breeding > > > double-dose (dark) Marbles, effectively getting to the point of > > > having near-complete solid black in them. Then, more recently, I've > > > been crossing these two lines and selectively breeding the result, > > > which has given me the black coverage I've been looking for. A > > > completely different way of obtaining the results, but there can be > > > no solid black barring of the wild genes showing through. Ray > > > > > > > > > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Jasmine" <adonaikam@> wrote: > > > > > > > > I thought I had a really nice black angel - slightly different dorsal > fin to all the rest of my angels but, when I tried taking photos of it > tonight, the camera showed me 'tourer shell' colours reflecting off the > angel. > > > > > > > > I haven't seen any pitch black ones except in books. > > > > > > > > Good luck in finding one. > > > > Jasmine > > > > > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "jett07002" <jett07002@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > Ray, \\Steve//, Lenny and anyone else interested in Angelfish. > > > > > > > > > > I asked once a long time ago, and now I am asking again. Have any > of you guys run across any real BLACK angels like we used to have back in > the 80s early 90s? > > > > > > > > > > Since I have asked back then, and all (Ray, \\Steve//, and Lenny) > have graciously answered in the negative, I am still searching for a > comeback on the black angel as they were back then. > > > > > > > > > > I have run across some angels where the black color has "really been > improved" according to the folks trying to sell them. Maybe my eyes are > starting to fail me, but they do not look the same to me. > > > > > > > > > > joe t >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 41440	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 6/25/2009
Subject: Re: 55 gallon community tank

OOHHHH.. so now we have a conspiracy of reef destroyers. LOL I wonder where they get the "crushed coral" that is sold? I see that the CaribSea brand is called Florida Crushed Coral. With the protection that most places give to their coral reefs, you would think that selling crushed coral would be a no-no. Florida even has a section of their Dept. Of Environmental Protection website talking about saving their reefs. http://www.dep.state.fl.us/coastal/programs/coral/maritime.htm Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Amber Berglund Sent: Thursday, June 25, 2009 11:17 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] 55 gallon community tank I didn't destroy anything, it was given to me by the previous owner of the 125 gallon tank, she was going to throw it away so I said i would take it off of her hands, figured it may come in handy some day ;) Amber Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > > > Calcium would affect GH. > > I'm not going to ask which reef you destroyed for that garbage can > full of crushed coral.... and hopefully the reef-huggers aren't > reading this thread. > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> (Links to any articles referenced in > above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels > and also under Archives by Year, Month) > > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On Behalf Of Amber Berglund > Sent: Thursday, June 25, 2009 10:58 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] 55 gallon community tank > > I have a garbage can full of crushed coral ;) LOL. > That's going to last me awhile for now, and it's free. > I will figure out something different when I run low on the crushed > coral ;) > > Also no one answered my question about calcium chloride, what does it > affect? GH or KH? I bought it for when I have the snails, wanted to > have calcium on hand. > > Amber > > Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > > > > > > OK. If the crushed coral is raising it up from the 33ppm range to > > the 75ppm range, then you are probably going to be OK. > > > > Crushed coral can/should raise both since crushed coral is supposed > > to be calcium carbonate also. > > > > Here's a snip from my calculations post in the Ponds-Koi forum. Of > > course, this snip is dealing with something like Oyster Flour which > > is immediately dissolvable in the water column, not something you > > have to wait to break down like crushed coral. The Carbonate could > > be dissolving so slowly that your tank's ecology is using it up > > faster or as fast as it is being released. > > > > > > "...Two teaspoons (about 4 grams) of calcium carbonate > > > > (CaCO3) per 50 liters of water will increase both KH and GH by 4 > > > > degrees..." from http://www.thekrib.com/Plants/CO2/khgh.html > <http://www.thekrib.com/Plants/CO2/khgh.html> > > <http://www.thekrib.com/Plants/CO2/khgh.html > <http://www.thekrib.com/Plants/CO2/khgh.html>> and since > > > > raising it 4 degrees is kind of where we want to raise it since > > > > it has > > > > 1 degree already, it's just a matter of doing a little more math. > > > > If you are going to be using/dosing your tank from now on, you might > > want to price how much 5 lbs. of crushed coral costs and compare it > > to Oyster Flour. > > My initial thoughts are that Oyster shells are a LOT cheaper than > coral... > > so their ground or crushed by-products should also be comparably priced. > > > > A quick search found Oyster Shell Flour on one site for $19.95 for a > > 25 lb. > > bag. > > > http://www.mycopath.com/index.php?main_page=product_info&products_id=2 > <http://www.mycopath.com/index.php?main_page=product_info&products_id= > 2> > > 5 > > > <http://www.mycopath.com/index.php?main_page=product_info&products_id= > <http://www.mycopath.com/index.php?main_page=product_info&products_id= > > > > 25> > > > > And a 40 lb. bag of CaribSea Crushed Coral for a similar price of > > $19.99 > > > http://www.bigalsonline.com/BigAlsUS/ctl3684/cp18315/si1379469/cl0/car > <http://www.bigalsonline.com/BigAlsUS/ctl3684/cp18315/si1379469/cl0/ca > r> > > ibseac > > > <http://www.bigalsonline.com/BigAlsUS/ctl3684/cp18315/si1379469/cl0/ca > <http://www.bigalsonline.com/BigAlsUS/ctl3684/cp18315/si1379469/cl0/ca > > > > ribseac> > > rushedcoral40lbs > > > > I guess my theory that Oyster Shells should be cheaper isn't holding > up... > > of course, that site with the Oyster Shell Flour may be way overpriced. > > > > Oh yeah... AND THE MORAL TO THIS STORY: Oysters are just butt-ugly > > miniature coral reefs. ;-) > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>> > (Links to any articles referenced in > > above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under > > Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On Behalf Of Amber Berglund > > Sent: Thursday, June 25, 2009 9:58 PM > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] 55 gallon community tank > > > > My GH doesn't seem that low though, especially with the coral chunks > > and shells in the tank... or am I wrong? 4 drops is what the test > > was earlier for GH, before I added some of the crushed coral (which > > is the consistency of slightly larger than sand you would find on the beach). > > Will crushed coral only raise GH or will it raise both KH and GH? > > > > Amber > > > > Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > > > > > > > > > I actually calculated the proper dosing of Oyster Flour quite a > > > while back in one of the Pond Forums that I participate in. If > > > Amber decides to go that route, I'll dig up my old post and > > > re-post it here or put it on my blog. > > > > > > Actually, a search of that group found the thread easy enough. > > > Lately, I don't have much confidence in Yahoo Group's searching > > > but it worked this time. Here's the thread. Read all the way > > > through since I forgot to carry a one in one of my earlier > > > computations but caught it right away and corrected it in my next post. > > > > > > Ol' Bill, you would like the Bill in that forum. He's a character > > > too (yeah I know... I'm the pot calling the kettle black), as > > > you'll see in the thread. I'm not sure what happened to the Bill > > > in that > forum. > > > He hasn't replied in a while. I hope he's OK. > > > > > > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Ponds-Koi/message/29647 > <http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Ponds-Koi/message/29647> > > <http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Ponds-Koi/message/29647 > <http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Ponds-Koi/message/29647>> > > > <http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Ponds-Koi/message/29647 > <http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Ponds-Koi/message/29647> > > <http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Ponds-Koi/message/29647 > <http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Ponds-Koi/message/29647>>> > > > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>> > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>>> > > (Links to any articles referenced in > > > above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under > > > Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On Behalf Of bill 1433 > > > Sent: Thursday, June 25, 2009 6:06 PM > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] 55 gallon community tank > > > > > > Amber, > > > > > > I'm getting here that you want to increase GH and KH? > > > > > > See if you can locate a product called Oyster Flour. You can most > > > likely find it at Feed and Grain Stores or Landscaping shops. Take > > > your time and add very slowly to your water and check it each day > > > before adding more. I used one level teaspoon at a time each day > > > until I started to see change then only 1/2 teaspoon until I got > > > exactly > > where I wanted to be. > > > > > > Bill > > > > > > --- On Thu, 6/25/09, Amber Berglund <amber@... > <mailto:amber%40rose-fields.com> > > <mailto:amber%40rose-fields.com> > > > <mailto:amber%40rose-fields.com>> wrote: > > > > > > > From: Amber Berglund <amber@... > <mailto:amber%40rose-fields.com> > > <mailto:amber%40rose-fields.com> > > > <mailto:amber%40rose-fields.com>> > > > > Subject: [AquaticLife] 55 gallon community tank > > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > Date: Thursday, June 25, 2009, 6:55 PM I tested my 55 gallon > > > > community tank today to see how the KH and GH are since I keep > > > > chunks of coral in the tank, well apparently the coral isn't > > > > breaking down fast enough so there's only 4 drop for GH > > > > (3-6=50-100ppm), and only 1 drop of KH still, same as my tap water. > > > > I added a couple handfulls of crushed coral to the tank to see > > > > if that will help the KH or GH at all. I have calcium that I can > > > > add to the tank which has calcium chloride listed as the > > > > ingredient, what will that do to the water parameters? > > > > oh and my pH is 6 still, always has been. > > > > So if I add enough crushed coral to the tank to keep my > > > > buffering capacity up then I should theoretically slowly end up > > > > with a pH closer to 6.8 like my baseline tapwater? Will a couple > > > > handfulls be enough or should I add more? I added it into the > > > > gravel for now as I have nothing to bag it up with and put it > > > > into the filter > itself. > > > > > > > > Amber

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 41441	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 6/25/2009
Subject: Re: 55 gallon community tank

I accidentally bought the wrong kind of bulbs, I bought the kind I use in the 125 gallon tank hood and while it's nice to have spairs handy I had planned on replacing the actinics in the 55 gallon community tank. I was looking at the right kind of bulbs this time and they have both 6700 kelvin daylight bulbs and dual daylight bulbs which are 6700 and 1000kelvin. Which bulbs should I get? using both lights might be too much lighting on the tank though, but I think the actinics are promoting algae growth.... just a theory though... Should I just use the daylight bulbs and not the actinics from now on? I don't like the look of the tank as much but it'll work ;) That's why I was considering the dual daylight bulbs from sunpaq. Amber Amber Berglund wrote: > > > I didn't destroy anything, it was given to me by the previous owner of > the 125 gallon tank, she was going to throw it away so I said i would > take it off of her hands, figured it may come in handy some day ;) > > Amber > > Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > > > > > > Calcium would affect GH. > > > > I'm not going to ask which reef you destroyed for that garbage can > full of > > crushed coral.... and hopefully the reef-huggers aren't reading this > > thread. > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>> > > (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right > > side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, > Month) > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On > > Behalf Of Amber Berglund > > Sent: Thursday, June 25, 2009 10:58 PM > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] 55 gallon community tank > > > > I have a garbage can full of crushed coral ;) LOL. > > That's going to last me awhile for now, and it's free. > > I will figure out something different when I run low on the crushed > > coral ;) > > > > Also no one answered my question about calcium chloride, what does it > > affect? GH or KH? I bought it for when I have the snails, wanted to have > > calcium on hand. > > > > Amber > > > > Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > > > > > > > > > OK. If the crushed coral is raising it up from the 33ppm range to the > > > 75ppm range, then you are probably going to be OK. > > > > > > Crushed coral can/should raise both since crushed coral is supposed to > > > be calcium carbonate also. > > > > > > Here's a snip from my calculations post in the Ponds-Koi forum. Of > > > course, this snip is dealing with something like Oyster Flour which is > > > immediately dissolvable in the water column, not something you have to > > > wait to break down like crushed coral. The Carbonate could be > > > dissolving so slowly that your tank's ecology is using it up faster or > > > as fast as it is being released. > > > > > > > > "...Two teaspoons (about 4 grams) of calcium carbonate > > > > > (CaCO3) per 50 liters of water will increase both KH and GH by 4 > > > > > degrees..." from http://www.thekrib.com/Plants/CO2/khgh.html > <http://www.thekrib.com/Plants/CO2/khgh.html> > > <http://www.thekrib.com/Plants/CO2/khgh.html > <http://www.thekrib.com/Plants/CO2/khgh.html>> > > > <http://www.thekrib.com/Plants/CO2/khgh.html > <http://www.thekrib.com/Plants/CO2/khgh.html> > > <http://www.thekrib.com/Plants/CO2/khgh.html > <http://www.thekrib.com/Plants/CO2/khgh.html>>> and since > > > > > raising it 4 degrees is kind of where we want to raise it since it > > > > > has > > > > > 1 degree already, it's just a matter of doing a little more math. > > > > > > If you are going to be using/dosing your tank from now on, you might > > > want to price how much 5 lbs. of crushed coral costs and compare it to > > > Oyster Flour. > > > My initial thoughts are that Oyster shells are a LOT cheaper than > > coral... > > > so their ground or crushed by-products should also be comparably > priced. > > > > > > A quick search found Oyster Shell Flour on one site for $19.95 for a > > > 25 lb. > > > bag. > > > > > > http://www.mycopath.com/index.php?main_page=product_info&products_id=2 > <http://www.mycopath.com/index.php?main_page=product_info&products_id=2> > > > <http://www.mycopath.com/index.php?main_page=product_info&products_id=2 > <http://www.mycopath.com/index.php?main_page=product_info&products_id=2>> > > > 5 > > > > > > <http://www.mycopath.com/index.php?main_page=product_info&products_id= > <http://www.mycopath.com/index.php?main_page=product_info&products_id=> > > > <http://www.mycopath.com/index.php?main_page=product_info&products_id= > <http://www.mycopath.com/index.php?main_page=product_info&products_id=>> > > > 25> > > > > > > And a 40 lb. bag of CaribSea Crushed Coral for a similar price of > > > $19.99 > > > > > > http://www.bigalsonline.com/BigAlsUS/ctl3684/cp18315/si1379469/cl0/car > <http://www.bigalsonline.com/BigAlsUS/ctl3684/cp18315/si1379469/cl0/car> > > > <http://www.bigalsonline.com/BigAlsUS/ctl3684/cp18315/si1379469/cl0/car > <http://www.bigalsonline.com/BigAlsUS/ctl3684/cp18315/si1379469/cl0/car>> > > > ibseac > > > > > > <http://www.bigalsonline.com/BigAlsUS/ctl3684/cp18315/si1379469/cl0/ca > <http://www.bigalsonline.com/BigAlsUS/ctl3684/cp18315/si1379469/cl0/ca> > > > <http://www.bigalsonline.com/BigAlsUS/ctl3684/cp18315/si1379469/cl0/ca > <http://www.bigalsonline.com/BigAlsUS/ctl3684/cp18315/si1379469/cl0/ca>> > > > ribseac> > > > rushedcoral40lbs > > > > > > I guess my theory that Oyster Shells should be cheaper isn't holding > > up... > > > of course, that site with the Oyster Shell Flour may be way > overpriced. > > > > > > Oh yeah... AND THE MORAL TO THIS STORY: Oysters are just butt-ugly > > > miniature coral reefs. ;-) > > > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>> > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>>> > > (Links to any articles referenced in > > > above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels > > > and also under Archives by Year, Month) > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On Behalf Of Amber Berglund > > > Sent: Thursday, June 25, 2009 9:58 PM > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] 55 gallon community tank > > > > > > My GH doesn't seem that low though, especially with the coral chunks > > > and shells in the tank... or am I wrong? 4 drops is what the test was > > > earlier for GH, before I added some of the crushed coral (which is the > > > consistency of slightly larger than sand you would find on the beach). > > > Will crushed coral only raise GH or will it raise both KH and GH? > > > > > > Amber > > > > > > Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > I actually calculated the proper dosing of Oyster Flour quite a > > > > while back in one of the Pond Forums that I participate in. If Amber > > > > decides to go that route, I'll dig up my old post and re-post it > > > > here or put it on my blog. > > > > > > > > Actually, a search of that group found the thread easy enough. > > > > Lately, I don't have much confidence in Yahoo Group's searching but > > > > it worked this time. Here's the thread. Read all the way through > > > > since I forgot to carry a one in one of my earlier computations but > > > > caught it right away and corrected it in my next post. > > > > > > > > Ol' Bill, you would like the Bill in that forum. He's a character > > > > too (yeah I know... I'm the pot calling the kettle black), as you'll > > > > see in the thread. I'm not sure what happened to the Bill in that > > forum. > > > > He hasn't replied in a while. I hope he's OK. > > > > > > > > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Ponds-Koi/message/29647 > <http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Ponds-Koi/message/29647> > > <http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Ponds-Koi/message/29647 > <http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Ponds-Koi/message/29647>> > > > <http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Ponds-Koi/message/29647 > <http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Ponds-Koi/message/29647> > > <http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Ponds-Koi/message/29647 > <http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Ponds-Koi/message/29647>>> > > > > <http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Ponds-Koi/message/29647 > <http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Ponds-Koi/message/29647> > > <http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Ponds-Koi/message/29647 > <http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Ponds-Koi/message/29647>> > > > <http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Ponds-Koi/message/29647 > <http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Ponds-Koi/message/29647> > > <http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Ponds-Koi/message/29647 > <http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Ponds-Koi/message/29647>>>> > > > > > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>> > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>>> > > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>> > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>>>> > > > (Links to any articles referenced in > > > > above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under > > > > Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On Behalf Of bill 1433 > > > > Sent: Thursday, June 25, 2009 6:06 PM > > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] 55 gallon community tank > > > > > > > > Amber, > > > > > > > > I'm getting here that you want to increase GH and KH? > > > > > > > > See if you can locate a product called Oyster Flour. You can most > > > > likely find it at Feed and Grain Stores or Landscaping shops. Take > > > > your time and add very slowly to your water and check it each day > > > > before adding more. I used one level teaspoon at a time each day > > > > until I started to see change then only 1/2 teaspoon until I got > > > > exactly > > > where I wanted to be. > > > > > > > > Bill > > > > > > > > --- On Thu, 6/25/09, Amber Berglund <amber@... > <mailto:amber%40rose-fields.com> > > <mailto:amber%40rose-fields.com> > > > <mailto:amber%40rose-fields.com> > > > > <mailto:amber%40rose-fields.com>> wrote: > > > > > > > > > From: Amber Berglund <amber@... > <mailto:amber%40rose-fields.com> > > <mailto:amber%40rose-fields.com> > > > <mailto:amber%40rose-fields.com> > > > > <mailto:amber%40rose-fields.com>> > > > > > Subject: [AquaticLife] 55 gallon community tank > > > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > Date: Thursday, June 25, 2009, 6:55 PM I tested my 55 gallon > > > > > community tank today to see how the KH and GH are since I keep > > > > > chunks of coral in the tank, well apparently the coral isn't > > > > > breaking down fast enough so there's only 4 drop for GH > > > > > (3-6=50-100ppm), and only 1 drop of KH still, same as my tap > water. > > > > > I added a couple handfulls of crushed coral to the tank to see if > > > > > that will help the KH or GH at all. I have calcium that I can add > > > > > to the tank which has calcium chloride listed as the ingredient, > > > > > what will that do to the water parameters? > > > > > oh and my pH is 6 still, always has been. > > > > > So if I add enough crushed coral to the tank to keep my buffering > > > > > capacity up then I should theoretically slowly end up with a pH > > > > > closer to 6.8 like my baseline tapwater? Will a couple handfulls > > > > > be enough or should I add more? I added it into the gravel for now > > > > > as I have nothing to bag it up with and put it into the filter > > itself. > > > > > > > > > > Amber > > > > > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 41442	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 6/25/2009
Subject: Re: 55 gallon community tank

most of the crushed coral is sold live, they're getting it somewhere, hmmm... wonder where? ;) Should I wait to add any more of the crushed coral? I'm not sure how fast it would normally affect the GH or KH. Amber Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > > > OOHHHH.. so now we have a conspiracy of reef destroyers. LOL > > I wonder where they get the "crushed coral" that is sold? I see that the > CaribSea brand is called Florida Crushed Coral. With the protection that > most places give to their coral reefs, you would think that selling > crushed > coral would be a no-no. Florida even has a section of their Dept. Of > Environmental Protection website talking about saving their reefs. > http://www.dep.state.fl.us/coastal/programs/coral/maritime.htm > <http://www.dep.state.fl.us/coastal/programs/coral/maritime.htm> > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right > side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On > Behalf Of Amber Berglund > Sent: Thursday, June 25, 2009 11:17 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] 55 gallon community tank > > I didn't destroy anything, it was given to me by the previous owner of the > 125 gallon tank, she was going to throw it away so I said i would take it > off of her hands, figured it may come in handy some day ;) > > Amber > > Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > > > > > > Calcium would affect GH. > > > > I'm not going to ask which reef you destroyed for that garbage can > > full of crushed coral.... and hopefully the reef-huggers aren't > > reading this thread. > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>> > (Links to any articles referenced in > > above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels > > and also under Archives by Year, Month) > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On Behalf Of Amber Berglund > > Sent: Thursday, June 25, 2009 10:58 PM > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] 55 gallon community tank > > > > I have a garbage can full of crushed coral ;) LOL. > > That's going to last me awhile for now, and it's free. > > I will figure out something different when I run low on the crushed > > coral ;) > > > > Also no one answered my question about calcium chloride, what does it > > affect? GH or KH? I bought it for when I have the snails, wanted to > > have calcium on hand. > > > > Amber > > > > Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > > > > > > > > > OK. If the crushed coral is raising it up from the 33ppm range to > > > the 75ppm range, then you are probably going to be OK. > > > > > > Crushed coral can/should raise both since crushed coral is supposed > > > to be calcium carbonate also. > > > > > > Here's a snip from my calculations post in the Ponds-Koi forum. Of > > > course, this snip is dealing with something like Oyster Flour which > > > is immediately dissolvable in the water column, not something you > > > have to wait to break down like crushed coral. The Carbonate could > > > be dissolving so slowly that your tank's ecology is using it up > > > faster or as fast as it is being released. > > > > > > > > "...Two teaspoons (about 4 grams) of calcium carbonate > > > > > (CaCO3) per 50 liters of water will increase both KH and GH by 4 > > > > > degrees..." from http://www.thekrib.com/Plants/CO2/khgh.html > <http://www.thekrib.com/Plants/CO2/khgh.html> > > <http://www.thekrib.com/Plants/CO2/khgh.html > <http://www.thekrib.com/Plants/CO2/khgh.html>> > > > <http://www.thekrib.com/Plants/CO2/khgh.html > <http://www.thekrib.com/Plants/CO2/khgh.html> > > <http://www.thekrib.com/Plants/CO2/khgh.html > <http://www.thekrib.com/Plants/CO2/khgh.html>>> and since > > > > > raising it 4 degrees is kind of where we want to raise it since > > > > > it has > > > > > 1 degree already, it's just a matter of doing a little more math. > > > > > > If you are going to be using/dosing your tank from now on, you might > > > want to price how much 5 lbs. of crushed coral costs and compare it > > > to Oyster Flour. > > > My initial thoughts are that Oyster shells are a LOT cheaper than > > coral... > > > so their ground or crushed by-products should also be comparably > priced. > > > > > > A quick search found Oyster Shell Flour on one site for $19.95 for a > > > 25 lb. > > > bag. > > > > > > http://www.mycopath.com/index.php?main_page=product_info&products_id=2 > <http://www.mycopath.com/index.php?main_page=product_info&products_id=2> > > > <http://www.mycopath.com/index.php?main_page=product_info&products_id= > <http://www.mycopath.com/index.php?main_page=product_info&products_id=> > > 2> > > > 5 > > > > > > <http://www.mycopath.com/index.php?main_page=product_info&products_id= > <http://www.mycopath.com/index.php?main_page=product_info&products_id=> > > > <http://www.mycopath.com/index.php?main_page=product_info&products_id= > <http://www.mycopath.com/index.php?main_page=product_info&products_id=> > > > > > > 25> > > > > > > And a 40 lb. bag of CaribSea Crushed Coral for a similar price of > > > $19.99 > > > > > > http://www.bigalsonline.com/BigAlsUS/ctl3684/cp18315/si1379469/cl0/car > <http://www.bigalsonline.com/BigAlsUS/ctl3684/cp18315/si1379469/cl0/car> > > > <http://www.bigalsonline.com/BigAlsUS/ctl3684/cp18315/si1379469/cl0/ca > <http://www.bigalsonline.com/BigAlsUS/ctl3684/cp18315/si1379469/cl0/ca> > > r> > > > ibseac > > > > > > <http://www.bigalsonline.com/BigAlsUS/ctl3684/cp18315/si1379469/cl0/ca > <http://www.bigalsonline.com/BigAlsUS/ctl3684/cp18315/si1379469/cl0/ca> > > > <http://www.bigalsonline.com/BigAlsUS/ctl3684/cp18315/si1379469/cl0/ca > <http://www.bigalsonline.com/BigAlsUS/ctl3684/cp18315/si1379469/cl0/ca> > > > > > > ribseac> > > > rushedcoral40lbs > > > > > > I guess my theory that Oyster Shells should be cheaper isn't holding > > up... > > > of course, that site with the Oyster Shell Flour may be way > overpriced. > > > > > > Oh yeah... AND THE MORAL TO THIS STORY: Oysters are just butt-ugly > > > miniature coral reefs. ;-) > > > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>> > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>>> > > (Links to any articles referenced in > > > above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under > > > Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On Behalf Of Amber Berglund > > > Sent: Thursday, June 25, 2009 9:58 PM > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] 55 gallon community tank > > > > > > My GH doesn't seem that low though, especially with the coral chunks > > > and shells in the tank... or am I wrong? 4 drops is what the test > > > was earlier for GH, before I added some of the crushed coral (which > > > is the consistency of slightly larger than sand you would find on the > beach). > > > Will crushed coral only raise GH or will it raise both KH and GH? > > > > > > Amber > > > > > > Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > I actually calculated the proper dosing of Oyster Flour quite a > > > > while back in one of the Pond Forums that I participate in. If > > > > Amber decides to go that route, I'll dig up my old post and > > > > re-post it here or put it on my blog. > > > > > > > > Actually, a search of that group found the thread easy enough. > > > > Lately, I don't have much confidence in Yahoo Group's searching > > > > but it worked this time. Here's the thread. Read all the way > > > > through since I forgot to carry a one in one of my earlier > > > > computations but caught it right away and corrected it in my next > post. > > > > > > > > Ol' Bill, you would like the Bill in that forum. He's a character > > > > too (yeah I know... I'm the pot calling the kettle black), as > > > > you'll see in the thread. I'm not sure what happened to the Bill > > > > in that > > forum. > > > > He hasn't replied in a while. I hope he's OK. > > > > > > > > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Ponds-Koi/message/29647 > <http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Ponds-Koi/message/29647> > > <http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Ponds-Koi/message/29647 > <http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Ponds-Koi/message/29647>> > > > <http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Ponds-Koi/message/29647 > <http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Ponds-Koi/message/29647> > > <http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Ponds-Koi/message/29647 > <http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Ponds-Koi/message/29647>>> > > > > <http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Ponds-Koi/message/29647 > <http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Ponds-Koi/message/29647> > > <http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Ponds-Koi/message/29647 > <http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Ponds-Koi/message/29647>> > > > <http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Ponds-Koi/message/29647 > <http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Ponds-Koi/message/29647> > > <http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Ponds-Koi/message/29647 > <http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Ponds-Koi/message/29647>>>> > > > > > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>> > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>>> > > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>> > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>>>> > > > (Links to any articles referenced in > > > > above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under > > > > Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On Behalf Of bill 1433 > > > > Sent: Thursday, June 25, 2009 6:06 PM > > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] 55 gallon community tank > > > > > > > > Amber, > > > > > > > > I'm getting here that you want to increase GH and KH? > > > > > > > > See if you can locate a product called Oyster Flour. You can most > > > > likely find it at Feed and Grain Stores or Landscaping shops. Take > > > > your time and add very slowly to your water and check it each day > > > > before adding more. I used one level teaspoon at a time each day > > > > until I started to see change then only 1/2 teaspoon until I got > > > > exactly > > > where I wanted to be. > > > > > > > > Bill > > > > > > > > --- On Thu, 6/25/09, Amber Berglund <amber@... > <mailto:amber%40rose-fields.com> > > <mailto:amber%40rose-fields.com> > > > <mailto:amber%40rose-fields.com> > > > > <mailto:amber%40rose-fields.com>> wrote: > > > > > > > > > From: Amber Berglund <amber@... > <mailto:amber%40rose-fields.com> > > <mailto:amber%40rose-fields.com> > > > <mailto:amber%40rose-fields.com> > > > > <mailto:amber%40rose-fields.com>> > > > > > Subject: [AquaticLife] 55 gallon community tank > > > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > Date: Thursday, June 25, 2009, 6:55 PM I tested my 55 gallon > > > > > community tank today to see how the KH and GH are since I keep > > > > > chunks of coral in the tank, well apparently the coral isn't > > > > > breaking down fast enough so there's only 4 drop for GH > > > > > (3-6=50-100ppm), and only 1 drop of KH still, same as my tap > water. > > > > > I added a couple handfulls of crushed coral to the tank to see > > > > > if that will help the KH or GH at all. I have calcium that I can > > > > > add to the tank which has calcium chloride listed as the > > > > > ingredient, what will that do to the water parameters? > > > > > oh and my pH is 6 still, always has been. > > > > > So if I add enough crushed coral to the tank to keep my > > > > > buffering capacity up then I should theoretically slowly end up > > > > > with a pH closer to 6.8 like my baseline tapwater? Will a couple > > > > > handfulls be enough or should I add more? I added it into the > > > > > gravel for now as I have nothing to bag it up with and put it > > > > > into the filter > > itself. > > > > > > > > > > Amber > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 41443	From: Jasmine	Date: 6/26/2009
Subject: Home page photo

What is the item displayed in the photo on the 'Home' page. It looks like miniature jelly fish but not totally sure. The look nice though :-) Jasmine

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 41444	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 6/26/2009
Subject: Re: my nasty gourami

Blue gourami's need a bigger tank than10 gallons they get up to 6 inches. They are probably feeling crowded that's why all the aggression. Amber Gail <clandestine662002@...> wrote: >My experience with Gouramis, is that you are only suppose to have ONE per tank. How Big is your tank? >I have two blue Gouramis and they get along when I had them in my 55 gallon, now that I have moved them to a 10 gallon - they aren't so friendly to eachother. No fin nipping in my case; just a lot of chasing. And are all of your Gouramis males? If so, that may be why you have this problem. > >thanks, >gail > > >--- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "greychildren" <greychildren@...> wrote: >> >> Well like i told you guys several weeks ago i purchase 3 gold gourami's well the little nasty one nip all the fins from the other two gouramis a male and a female.. living one The nasty one left. i know there semi aggressive not aggressive... so should i take the gold gourami back to the FLS? He does not pic on the platys or head and tail tetras or should i get the kribs to calm him down? >> >> Jake >> > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 41445	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 6/26/2009
Subject: Re: 55 gallon community tank

I've never seen a good article on the proper use of crushed coral. I think there are so many variables that it's hard to know precisely how much to use. It's probably something someone with multiple tanks could do and keep accurate records over the course of several months and then come up with some kind of formula, then publish the formula to get more people trying it and reporting back with their results to make sure the formula works for the masses. The problems that I see is that the more acidic the water, the faster the coral would be dissolve BUT if the water is acidic and has a high GH and low KH, then the calcium side of the coral would not dissolve as fast. If the water is acidic and has a high KH and low GH, then the carbonate side would not dissolve as fast. If the water is not acidic, then the coral would dissolve much slower. Of course, the flow rate of the water through the filter also has some factor in the dissolve rate. I'm not sure how these variables would affect how much should be used. I'm guessing there would have to be a baseline established at 7.0 pH with moderate GH and KH levels and then work up and down from there. One figure I've seen posted in forums before was 1kg per 40 liters of water, when used as in the substrate. That would translate to around 2 pounds per 10G of water. Obviously, not something you could fit in a filter system. That's the other problem for many folks. While folks with BIG canister filters could use the crushed coral in a filter media bag in their filter reservoir, this isn't possible with most of the smaller HOB's. I think it really comes down to each fishkeeper coming up with their own "system" of how to use crushed coral or cuttlebone. That's the good thing about using things like Baking Soda and Oyster Flour... they can be precisely measured, dosed and measured with test kits to see that they are doing what they are supposed to be doing. Of course, when things get too complicated... keep fish that like your source water in the first place. Of course, when one wants to have a heavily planted tank and/or keep fish that do not do well with their baseline water, then these other measures become necessary. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Amber Berglund Sent: Friday, June 26, 2009 12:44 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] 55 gallon community tank most of the crushed coral is sold live, they're getting it somewhere, hmmm... wonder where? ;) Should I wait to add any more of the crushed coral? I'm not sure how fast it would normally affect the GH or KH. Amber Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > > > OOHHHH.. so now we have a conspiracy of reef destroyers. LOL > > I wonder where they get the "crushed coral" that is sold? I see that > the CaribSea brand is called Florida Crushed Coral. With the > protection that most places give to their coral reefs, you would think > that selling crushed coral would be a no-no. Florida even has a > section of their Dept. Of Environmental Protection website talking > about saving their reefs. > http://www.dep.state.fl.us/coastal/programs/coral/maritime.htm > <http://www.dep.state.fl.us/coastal/programs/coral/maritime.htm> > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> (Links to any articles referenced in > above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels > and also under Archives by Year, Month) > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On Behalf Of Amber Berglund > Sent: Thursday, June 25, 2009 11:17 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] 55 gallon community tank > > I didn't destroy anything, it was given to me by the previous owner of > the > 125 gallon tank, she was going to throw it away so I said i would take > it off of her hands, figured it may come in handy some day ;) > > Amber > > Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > > > > > > Calcium would affect GH. > > > > I'm not going to ask which reef you destroyed for that garbage can > > full of crushed coral.... and hopefully the reef-huggers aren't > > reading this thread. > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>> > (Links to any articles referenced in > > above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under > > Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On Behalf Of Amber Berglund > > Sent: Thursday, June 25, 2009 10:58 PM > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] 55 gallon community tank > > > > I have a garbage can full of crushed coral ;) LOL. > > That's going to last me awhile for now, and it's free. > > I will figure out something different when I run low on the crushed > > coral ;) > > > > Also no one answered my question about calcium chloride, what does > > it affect? GH or KH? I bought it for when I have the snails, wanted > > to have calcium on hand. > > > > Amber > > > > Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > > > > > > > > > OK. If the crushed coral is raising it up from the 33ppm range to > > > the 75ppm range, then you are probably going to be OK. > > > > > > Crushed coral can/should raise both since crushed coral is > > > supposed to be calcium carbonate also. > > > > > > Here's a snip from my calculations post in the Ponds-Koi forum. Of > > > course, this snip is dealing with something like Oyster Flour > > > which is immediately dissolvable in the water column, not > > > something you have to wait to break down like crushed coral. The > > > Carbonate could be dissolving so slowly that your tank's ecology > > > is using it up faster or as fast as it is being released. > > > > > > > > "...Two teaspoons (about 4 grams) of calcium carbonate > > > > > (CaCO3) per 50 liters of water will increase both KH and GH by > > > > > 4 degrees..." from http://www.thekrib.com/Plants/CO2/khgh.html > <http://www.thekrib.com/Plants/CO2/khgh.html> > > <http://www.thekrib.com/Plants/CO2/khgh.html > <http://www.thekrib.com/Plants/CO2/khgh.html>> > > > <http://www.thekrib.com/Plants/CO2/khgh.html > <http://www.thekrib.com/Plants/CO2/khgh.html> > > <http://www.thekrib.com/Plants/CO2/khgh.html > <http://www.thekrib.com/Plants/CO2/khgh.html>>> and since > > > > > raising it 4 degrees is kind of where we want to raise it > > > > > since it has > > > > > 1 degree already, it's just a matter of doing a little more math. > > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 41446	From: Raymond Wetzel	Date: 6/26/2009
Subject: Re: Angels

Hi Jasmine. Tried replying to you yesterday, but the unexpected happened -- don't ask <g>. Hadn't had a chance to get back here since. Sorry to hear your cold took a turn for the worst, but I'm glad to see you have sick day pay coming. Get plenty of rest, there's not much better you can do for it. My cold started with sneezing and a runny nose (for 2 days) along with a fever and a headache that felt more like a hangover (no Lenny, I wasn't drinking, but probably should have). Still a good deal of congestion in my chest now so I can see it's not going away anytime soon, but that's all that remains. Hope you're feeling better soon, and take care of yourself. Best if you don't go out in the cold weather if you can avoid it. Yes, I figured the Silver Angel was somewhat younger than the Koi, and even though you may not see very much difference in size, the Angelfish can perceive any differences in size that we may not pick up on, and with it, any less boldness in another fish that it wants to dominate, and so it did. It's really uncanny how two same-colored fish of a strain invariably prefer pairing up with the other before they would consider pairing up with one of a different strain. There's no way they can know what color they are; even if they had a mirror they wouldn't recognize the reflection as their own. I can only think that there must be something in their genes associated with color that is hard-wired with the particular strain, possibly some very subtle behavioral traits specific to that strain. The subject would make a most interesting study. There are a few fairly current books on Angelfish available, which can be obtained from Lee Finley (Finley Aquatic Books), for one. There are also some good older books and booklets on the subject which you might be able to find on eBay or AquaBid -- such as one written by a now deceased friend of mine (and ex-ACAer) Braz Walker, entitled just "Angelfish". Dr Herbert Axelrod put out an informative booklet, along with Dr C.W. Emmens entitled "Angelfish . . . In Color". They're both at least 35 years old or more, but basics on Angels don't change. A real favorite of mine is "Aquariology" written in 1992 in four parts by various authors (Drs Paul Loiselle, John Gratzek, Janice Matthews, Joanne Norton et al). I have the combined Master Volume, which deals largely with the Science of Fish Health Management but includes an excellent chapter by the recently deceased Joanne Norton (another good friend of many, including myself), which goes into specifics on Angelfish, including the genetics of them and as part of that subject some of the various color strains. I've found it a fascinating read, especially since Dr Norton was reknown for her work in genetics, quite noteably in livebearers. I suspect her chapter must have been included in one of the four original parts of the later Master Volume, making it more reasonable to obtain, but I couldn't tell you which one. Ray --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Jasmine" <adonaikam@...> wrote: > > Hi Ray > > I'm glad you are on the mend. I think mine has had a slight twist today – I started sneezing. All week with I've only had a slight temp, coughing and headaches. Thankfully, it hasn't travelled to my chest. However, starting today – I've been sneezing with nasal congestion and my head is starting to feel heavy. Not a good sign. Thank goodness I still have some paid sick leave up my sleeve. I do hope you kick your completely very soon. > > I haven't really looked closely to compare the sizes between the Koi and the Silver – I thought they were about the same size. The Koi is about a year old, I'm not sure how old the Silver is but I would say it would be younger. > > What you mentioned about the colour strain of bonding, my fiancé mentioned that as well – he breeds birds and he had noticed that with his birds as well. You know, if makes you wonder how they know what they look like to mate with their own colour strain. We don't put a mirror in the tank so they know what they look like – it must be inbreeded in them. > > It has been exciting to get to know the type of Angels we have. We have just been choosing the ones we like the colours of. Is there a book that provides all the different types of tropical angelfish? > > Jasmine > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Raymond Wetzel" <sevenspringss@> wrote: > > > > Hi Jasmine, Looks like you guys were really talking it up last night at the same time, and after, I was writing my last post. As this was one of the messages being generated while I was composing, I'll start here. Hope your cold is better -- I'm just getting rid of mine, but its been a real rough stretch of days from just before the past weekend, as I was hit with a double-wammy (chest & nasal) cold that left me BEAT. Much better today, but it's still lingering. > > > > You might note, by my question on this, that it's no surprise that your Angels WERE bought at different times, as I well knew from your picture of these procedings. What I couldn't know though, was that the Marble (male) was originally paired up with the Silver (female) Angel before adding these two fish with the pre-obtained Koi (female). Your description of these procedings makes perfect sense now, and I'd have to guess that the Silver Angel is somewhat smaller and younger than the Koi. The Koi was a real home-wrecker, huh? LOL. It's no surprise though, in the least, that the Marble was originally paired up with the Silver, with the Koi (large female) overpowering the Silver to succeed at finally pairing up with the Marble. I figured the strength of the Koi (and ONLY this fish's strength) had everything to do with the present bonding situation. > > > > A natural selection behavior I've come to learn, of years of observing this species is that -- In an environment of mixed domestic Angelfish color strains in the presence of the wild type (your Silver Angel is considered as close to wild type as possible), the first choice for pair bonding of ANY of the domestic color strains will ALWAYS and INEVITABLY be with the wild form before ANY OTHER color form present - and that includes a possible choice of a same color form. The ONLY reason why your Marble is now paired up with the Koi is that the Silver was overpowered by this stronger (and quite determined) female Koi. Contrary to what some hobbyists prefer to think, Angelfish will select a different mate when the situation is advantageous to them; they do not necessarily pair up for life (unless the hobbyist maintains them as such). > > > > This too comes as little surprise, as the second choice of ANY pair bonding in domestic color forms of Angelfish is almost ALWAYS (and just as INEVITABLY) a mate of THE SAME color strain, followed close behind but only after the same color -- a mate having at least some of the genes as does the pairing mate. I would say "ALAWYS" here too, rather than "almost ALWAYS" as I've never observed any other behavior, but there's usually at least one different situation somewhere. Actually, these two last pairings are mutual choices of both partners. In your case, your calico (tri-color, w/black included) Koi has Marble in its genes as Gold Marble is used as one of the fish to develop calico Koi. > > > > In the pairing of the wild form in the presence of only domestically developed color strains, ALL of the domestic Angels of opposite sex from the wild form will first be attracted to the wild form before any other choices are considered by them. It will be the choice of the wild form to accept whichever domestic Angel best suits it out of all potential mates. > > > > Wish I could fill you in more on the marking (and pimple-like growth) on the Silver Angel. As there is a growth opposite the pigmentation, I'm more inclined to believe it's more than just a marking too, even though I can't see the raised area well. The first impression is that it could be a melanoma, but it's too immature at this point for me to diagnose it as such (and hopefully, I'm completely wrong on that). As long as it doesn't get much worse, I can't see cause to be concerned about it at this point -- as long as it's not bothering the fish. It would serve little purpose anyway to be concerned since we don't know what we're dealing with. As it has made an appearance though, you can only expect it to grow over time -- hopefully slowly and not too soon detrimental to the fish's health. If, by chance, it doesn't grow so much the better. Keep us posted if you see a noticeable change. Ray > > > > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 41447	From: bill 1433	Date: 6/26/2009
Subject: Re: 55 gallon community tank

Hi Amber,   I am still trying to figure out exactly what your trying to do here.  Sorry I lost your original post. But may I offer some food for thought?   First, here is a link and picture of the Oyster Shell Flour and its manufacture:   http://www.downtoearthdistributors.com/oystershell.html   Next, I am reading in the postings this morning that your adding "hand fulls" of coral to the tank? If you go to far (and I did, so I know) its the devil to get it back out.  Use some type of bag for control.    And finally, on the bag itself, you can get a regular one for this purpose at Dr's. here: http://pet-supplies.drsfostersmith.com/search?af=type%3Aproduct&cartcount=0&wishcount=0&subtotal=0.00&w=mesh+bag&asug=mesh   Now if you are using your own, as Len mentioned, not Fish-Nets, use real nylons.  By that I mean stockings, not pantyhose.  Why?  While I am not proficient in ladies wear, I am almost positive that pantyhose products contain Spandex?  I don't think you want that chemical in your aquarium water as it could break down in time and who knows were that could lead.  Stay with anything that's 100% nylon.    "Playing in the Water" as I like to call it, is not advisable but it can be done.  If your taking readings and the proper notes, over time you will develope a regular system and once your goals are reached you will learn how much water to use in your regualr water changes so as to not upset the balance you have acheieved.  You mentioned this morning about having that coral from the orginal owner?  Please tell me you "sterlized" what portions you are using BEFORE putting it into your aquarium?   Bill --- On Fri, 6/26/09, Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@...> wrote: From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@...> Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] 55 gallon community tank To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Date: Friday, June 26, 2009, 4:59 AM I've never seen a good article on the proper use of crushed coral.  I think there are so many variables that it's hard to know precisely how much to use.  It's probably something someone with multiple tanks could do and keep accurate records over the course of several months and then come up with some kind of formula, then publish the formula to get more people trying it and reporting back with their results to make sure the formula works for the masses. The problems that I see is that the more acidic the water, the faster the coral would be dissolve BUT if the water is acidic and has a high GH and low KH, then the calcium side of the coral would not dissolve as fast.  If the water is acidic and has a high KH and low GH, then the carbonate side would not dissolve as fast.  If the water is not acidic, then the coral would dissolve much slower.  Of course, the flow rate of the water through the filter also has some factor in the dissolve rate.  I'm not sure how these variables would affect how much should be used.  I'm guessing there would have to be a baseline established at 7.0 pH with moderate GH and KH levels and then work up and down from there.  One figure I've seen posted in forums before was 1kg per 40 liters of water, when used as in the substrate.  That would translate to around 2 pounds per 10G of water.  Obviously, not something you could fit in a filter system.  That's the other problem for many folks.  While folks with BIG canister filters could use the crushed coral in a filter media bag in their filter reservoir, this isn't possible with most of the smaller HOB's. I think it really comes down to each fishkeeper coming up with their own "system" of how to use crushed coral or cuttlebone.  That's the good thing about using things like Baking Soda and Oyster Flour... they can be precisely measured, dosed and measured with test kits to see that they are doing what they are supposed to be doing. Of course, when things get too complicated... keep fish that like your source water in the first place.  Of course, when one wants to have a heavily planted tank and/or keep fish that do not do well with their baseline water, then these other measures become necessary. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Amber Berglund Sent: Friday, June 26, 2009 12:44 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] 55 gallon community tank most of the crushed coral is sold live, they're getting it somewhere, hmmm... wonder where? ;) Should I wait to add any more of the crushed coral? I'm not sure how fast it would normally affect the GH or KH. Amber Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > > > OOHHHH.. so now we have a conspiracy of reef destroyers. LOL > > I wonder where they get the "crushed coral" that is sold? I see that > the CaribSea brand is called Florida Crushed Coral. With the > protection that most places give to their coral reefs, you would think > that selling crushed coral would be a no-no. Florida even has a > section of their Dept. Of Environmental Protection website talking > about saving their reefs. > http://www.dep.state.fl.us/coastal/programs/coral/maritime.htm > <http://www.dep.state.fl.us/coastal/programs/coral/maritime.htm> > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> (Links to any articles referenced in > above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels > and also under Archives by Year, Month) > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On Behalf Of Amber Berglund > Sent: Thursday, June 25, 2009 11:17 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] 55 gallon community tank > > I didn't destroy anything, it was given to me by the previous owner of > the > 125 gallon tank, she was going to throw it away so I said i would take > it off of her hands, figured it may come in handy some day ;) > > Amber > > Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > > > > > > Calcium would affect GH. > > > > I'm not going to ask which reef you destroyed for that garbage can > > full of crushed coral.... and hopefully the reef-huggers aren't > > reading this thread. > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>> > (Links to any articles referenced in > > above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under > > Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On Behalf Of Amber Berglund > > Sent: Thursday, June 25, 2009 10:58 PM > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] 55 gallon community tank > > > > I have a garbage can full of crushed coral ;) LOL. > > That's going to last me awhile for now, and it's free. > > I will figure out something different when I run low on the crushed > > coral ;) > > > > Also no one answered my question about calcium chloride, what does > > it affect? GH or KH? I bought it for when I have the snails, wanted > > to have calcium on hand. > > > > Amber > > > > Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > > > > > > > > > OK. If the crushed coral is raising it up from the 33ppm range to > > > the 75ppm range, then you are probably going to be OK. > > > > > > Crushed coral can/should raise both since crushed coral is > > > supposed to be calcium carbonate also. > > > > > > Here's a snip from my calculations post in the Ponds-Koi forum. Of > > > course, this snip is dealing with something like Oyster Flour > > > which is immediately dissolvable in the water column, not > > > something you have to wait to break down like crushed coral. The > > > Carbonate could be dissolving so slowly that your tank's ecology > > > is using it up faster or as fast as it is being released. > > > > > > > > "...Two teaspoons (about 4 grams) of calcium carbonate > > > > > (CaCO3) per 50 liters of water will increase both KH and GH by > > > > > 4 degrees..." from http://www.thekrib.com/Plants/CO2/khgh.html > <http://www.thekrib.com/Plants/CO2/khgh.html> > > <http://www.thekrib.com/Plants/CO2/khgh.html > <http://www.thekrib.com/Plants/CO2/khgh.html>> > > > <http://www.thekrib.com/Plants/CO2/khgh.html > <http://www.thekrib.com/Plants/CO2/khgh.html> > > <http://www.thekrib.com/Plants/CO2/khgh.html > <http://www.thekrib.com/Plants/CO2/khgh.html>>> and since > > > > > raising it 4 degrees is kind of where we want to raise it > > > > > since it has > > > > > 1 degree already, it's just a matter of doing a little more math. > > > ------------------------------------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the home page.  Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com to receive the digest, which includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com for the No E-Mail option where you will still be able to read messages on the group and post replies. Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com to receive individual e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 41448	From: Raymond Wetzel	Date: 6/26/2009
Subject: Re: Responses to Angels please help.

Floating the bag to first equalize the temperature has always been a major step in acclimating new fish, and while this first step should always be preferable (in this manner -- floating) whenever possible, there are times when for various reasons (there may be too many fish in the bag, the fish is larger than average, the time lapse between store and home is excessive, etc.) the bag needs to be opened to prevent oxygen starvation. Temperature equalization can likewise be accomplished in the bucket, when adding tank water to it slowly. During more stressful times when the bag water may be depleted of much of its oxygen, an airstone should be added to the bucket. If the bag can be allowed to float to equalize the temperature, that is only the first step of acclimation. The bag should then be opened, a portion (perhaps 20%) of this water should be discarded and some tank water (equal amount as to what was discarded) should be added -- then, with rolling the bag sides down enough to permit the bag to float while open (or resealing the bag), allowing the fish to get used to this new mixture of bag water and tank water. This procedure should be repeated, for a minimum of 20 to 30 minutes -- although this really depends on the differences of pH between the store/bag water and the tank water, with a greater difference requiring more time between partial water additions and more time over all. This will help the fish adjust to the new water parameters you're putting them in. Under no circumstances should the fish just be allowed to swim out of their bag into the tank, as the bag water should all be discarded and not added to the tank. While this may not entirely prevent the introduction of a disease, it may serve to limit it -- and will definitely ensure that any ammonia in the bag water does not get dumped into the tank. Some LFS owners and assistants may be more helpful in telling you what their tanks' pH is (and even the pH of a particular tank), but it's best not to rely on their say so. They may have been mistaken or they may have given you an average/over-all pH value of all their tanks in general -- or may even have given you the pH of their source water which could have changed in their set up. Its always best to do a pH test on their water when you get it home. With increased CO2 being given off in the bag water between the time you left the LFS and the time you got home, the pH may have dropped anyway, from when that same water was tested at the LFS. Ray --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Jasmine" <adonaikam@...> wrote: > > Sorry, did I understand that you empty your bag into a bucket and add the water from your tank into the bucket (1 large cup every ten minutes)? > > I normally place the seal bag in my tank, allowing it to float for 20 to 30 minutes before I slowly mix the water and allowing the fish to swim out. > > Note: > I first ask the LFS what their water reading is and ensure my water is similar. I even brought my bristlenose first to ensure it would survive. Left the tank for a week or two with just the bristlenose then went out and got my other fish. > > Also, if the fish store is about 20 - 30 minutes drive from home - I advise the LFS so they can prepare the fish for the journey AND I also ensure I have a 'hot & cold pack' bag with a few towels (this ensure I keep the temp fairly constant). > > Jasmine > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "anallafamily.2001" <anallafamily.2001@> wrote: > > > > I got plenty of responsies with almost all the same questions. > > water testing... > > The water test that i have been doing is Nitrite, water is testing at 0ppm, ammonia might be high to day at 1.0, and ph is at 6.6. > > chemicals... > > when setting up the tank i used discuss buffer to lower ph and i used another chemical to get chlorine out. I have also put aquarium salt in tank 1 time (someone suggested it to boost amunity in new fish. > > Buying and acclamating..... > > Ok so i have been buying them at the local walmart because they are cheeper. But I put them in a 5 gal. bucket with there water and a large cup of my water and let them sit 10 min. then add another large cup of my water and let sit another 5min. then i dip net them in my tank not adding any of the water. > > Tank.... > > It is a 55 gal tank with 2 filters on each end and a whisper air pump. I had the tank set up for about 10 weeks but only tryed to add the fish in the last 2weeks. > > I don't know, but i think i have answered all questions. > > thanks Jo > > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 41449	From: bill 1433	Date: 6/26/2009
Subject: Re: 55 gallon community tank

Amber!!!  Sorry!  I forgot something,   As Len just mentioned GH and KH in your tap water is very important to all of this.   If you will remember back some time ago I went through all of this BUT, I had no GH or KH at all, natural spring, well water here.  BUT I also have an extremely low pH, 5.5 to 5.7 naturally.   All of this has a direct bearing on all tests.  You must know for sure your starting or baseline readings for pH, GH and KH.    The amount of your starting readings will greatly affect the over-all speed which any buffer or agent like the Oyster Flour, crushed coral will work.  Mine was very fast because of the well waters low pH.  Yours may not be.  Also please remember that I had no GH or KH to start with.  This was my whole point in playing in the water.  With a measurable amount of GH and KH I hoped to achieve a buffer to guard against pH spikes and drops..   Bill --- On Fri, 6/26/09, bill 1433 <warrenprint@...> wrote: > From: bill 1433 <warrenprint@...> > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] 55 gallon community tank > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Date: Friday, June 26, 2009, 9:30 AM > > Hi Amber, >   > I am still trying to figure out exactly what your trying to > do here.  Sorry I lost your original post. But may I offer > some food for thought? >   > First, here is a link and picture of the Oyster Shell Flour > and its manufacture: >   > http://www.downtoearthdistributors.com/oystershell.html >   > Next, I am reading in the postings this morning that your > adding "hand fulls" of coral to the tank? > If you go to far (and I did, so I know) its the devil to > get it back out.  Use some type of bag for control.  >   > And finally, on the bag itself, you can get a regular one > for this purpose at Dr's. here: > http://pet-supplies.drsfostersmith.com/search?af=type%3Aproduct&cartcount=0&wishcount=0&subtotal=0.00&w=mesh+bag&asug=mesh >   > Now if you are using your own, as Len mentioned, not > Fish-Nets, use real nylons.  By that I mean stockings, not > pantyhose.  Why?  While I am not proficient in ladies > wear, I am almost positive that pantyhose products contain > Spandex?  I don't think you want that chemical in your > aquarium water as it could break down in time and who knows > were that could lead.  Stay with anything that's 100% > nylon.  >   > "Playing in the Water" as I like to call it, is not > advisable but it can be done.  If your taking readings and > the proper notes, over time you will develope a regular > system and once your goals are reached you will learn how > much water to use in your regualr water changes so as to not > upset the balance you have acheieved.  You mentioned this > morning about having that coral from the orginal owner?  > Please tell me you "sterlized" what portions you are using > BEFORE putting it into your aquarium? >   > Bill > > --- On Fri, 6/26/09, Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@...> > wrote: > > > From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@...> > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] 55 gallon community tank > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Date: Friday, June 26, 2009, 4:59 AM > > > I've never seen a good article on the proper use of crushed > coral.  I think > there are so many variables that it's hard to know > precisely how much to > use.  It's probably something someone with multiple tanks > could do and keep > accurate records over the course of several months and then > come up with > some kind of formula, then publish the formula to get more > people trying it > and reporting back with their results to make sure the > formula works for the > masses. > > The problems that I see is that the more acidic the water, > the faster the > coral would be dissolve BUT if the water is acidic and has > a high GH and low > KH, then the calcium side of the coral would not dissolve > as fast.  If the > water is acidic and has a high KH and low GH, then the > carbonate side would > not dissolve as fast.  If the water is not acidic, then > the coral would > dissolve much slower.  Of course, the flow rate of the > water through the > filter also has some factor in the dissolve rate.  I'm not > sure how these > variables would affect how much should be used.  I'm > guessing there would > have to be a baseline established at 7.0 pH with moderate > GH and KH levels > and then work up and down from there.  One figure I've > seen posted in forums > before was 1kg per 40 liters of water, when used as in the > substrate.  That > would translate to around 2 pounds per 10G of water.  > Obviously, not > something you could fit in a filter system.  That's the > other problem for > many folks.  While folks with BIG canister filters could > use the crushed > coral in a filter media bag in their filter reservoir, this > isn't possible > with most of the smaller HOB's. > > I think it really comes down to each fishkeeper coming up > with their own > "system" of how to use crushed coral or cuttlebone.  > That's the good thing > about using things like Baking Soda and Oyster Flour... > they can be > precisely measured, dosed and measured with test kits to > see that they are > doing what they are supposed to be doing. > > Of course, when things get too complicated... keep fish > that like your > source water in the first place.  Of course, when one > wants to have a > heavily planted tank and/or keep fish that do not do well > with their > baseline water, then these other measures become > necessary. > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed > on the right > side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives > by Year, Month) > > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] > On > Behalf Of Amber Berglund > Sent: Friday, June 26, 2009 12:44 AM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] 55 gallon community tank > > most of the crushed coral is sold live, they're getting it > somewhere, > hmmm... wonder where? ;) Should I wait to add any more of > the crushed coral? > I'm not sure how fast it would normally affect the GH or > KH. > > Amber > > Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > > > > > > OOHHHH.. so now we have a conspiracy of reef > destroyers. LOL > > > > I wonder where they get the "crushed coral" that is > sold? I see that > > the CaribSea brand is called Florida Crushed Coral. > With the > > protection that most places give to their coral reefs, > you would think > > that selling crushed coral would be a no-no. Florida > even has a > > section of their Dept. Of Environmental Protection > website talking > > about saving their reefs. > > http://www.dep.state.fl.us/coastal/programs/coral/maritime.htm > > <http://www.dep.state.fl.us/coastal/programs/coral/maritime.htm> > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> (Links > to any articles referenced in > > above reply are listed on the right side, > alphabetically under Labels > > and also under Archives by Year, Month) > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On > Behalf Of Amber Berglund > > Sent: Thursday, June 25, 2009 11:17 PM > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] 55 gallon community tank > > > > I didn't destroy anything, it was given to me by the > previous owner of > > the > > 125 gallon tank, she was going to throw it away so I > said i would take > > it off of her hands, figured it may come in handy some > day ;) > > > > Amber > > > > Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > > > > > > > > > Calcium would affect GH. > > > > > > I'm not going to ask which reef you destroyed for > that garbage can > > > full of crushed coral.... and hopefully the > reef-huggers aren't > > > reading this thread. > > > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>> > > (Links to any articles referenced in > > > above reply are listed on the right side, > alphabetically under > > > Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) > > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On > Behalf Of Amber Berglund > > > Sent: Thursday, June 25, 2009 10:58 PM > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] 55 gallon community > tank > > > > > > I have a garbage can full of crushed coral ;) > LOL. > > > That's going to last me awhile for now, and it's > free. > > > I will figure out something different when I run > low on the crushed > > > coral ;) > > > > > > Also no one answered my question about calcium > chloride, what does > > > it affect? GH or KH? I bought it for when I have > the snails, wanted > > > to have calcium on hand. > > > > > > Amber > > > > > > Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > OK. If the crushed coral is raising it up > from the 33ppm range to > > > > the 75ppm range, then you are probably going > to be OK. > > > > > > > > Crushed coral can/should raise both since > crushed coral is > > > > supposed to be calcium carbonate also. > > > > > > > > Here's a snip from my calculations post in > the Ponds-Koi forum. Of > > > > course, this snip is dealing with something > like Oyster Flour > > > > which is immediately dissolvable in the > water column, not > > > > something you have to wait to break down > like crushed coral. The > > > > Carbonate could be dissolving so slowly that > your tank's ecology > > > > is using it up faster or as fast as it is > being released. > > > > > > > > > > "...Two teaspoons (about 4 grams) > of calcium carbonate > > > > > > (CaCO3) per 50 liters of water > will increase both KH and GH by > > > > > > 4 degrees..." from http://www.thekrib.com/Plants/CO2/khgh.html > > <http://www.thekrib.com/Plants/CO2/khgh.html> > > > <http://www.thekrib.com/Plants/CO2/khgh.html > > <http://www.thekrib.com/Plants/CO2/khgh.html>> > > > > <http://www.thekrib.com/Plants/CO2/khgh.html > > <http://www.thekrib.com/Plants/CO2/khgh.html> > > > <http://www.thekrib.com/Plants/CO2/khgh.html > > <http://www.thekrib.com/Plants/CO2/khgh.html>>> > and since > > > > > > raising it 4 degrees is kind of > where we want to raise it > > > > > > since it has > > > > > > 1 degree already, it's just a > matter of doing a little more math. > > > > > > > > ------------------------------------ > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when > replying, Thank You. > ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> > ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> > PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is > NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of > the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new > subject (was re: old subject)" <- > <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. > , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. > > If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of > unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by > clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the home page.  > > Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com > to receive the digest, which includes up to 25 posts at a > time in a single email > > Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com > for the No E-Mail option where you will still be able to > read messages on the group and post replies. > > Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com > to receive individual e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > >       > > > > ------------------------------------ > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when > replying, Thank You. > ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> > ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> > PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is > NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of > the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new > subject (was re: old subject)" <- > <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. > , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. > > If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of > unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by > clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the home page.  > > Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com > to receive the digest, which includes up to 25 posts at a > time in a single email > > Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com > for the No E-Mail option where you will still be able to > read messages on the group and post replies. > > Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com > to receive individual e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links > > >     mailto:AquaticLife-fullfeatured@yahoogroups.com > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 41450	From: bill 1433	Date: 6/26/2009
Subject: Re: Responses to Angels please help.

Hi Jasmine,   Since my waters are so different from LPS, I use the "drip method" and  here's how I do it.   First, float the bag as Ray just mentioned.  Next I use a plastic box from "Sterlite", it holds roughly 3 gallons of water.  It measures about 16" long,5" high and 12" wide, it has a lid and cost 4 dollars at Wal-Mart.    Next I open the entire bad and dump it into this box.  Making sure there is sufficient water covering the bottom to allow the fish to swim, if not tilt the box.  Next a siphon started with airline tubing, ( I have a valve setup for this) and tie a loose knot in it to allow a given amount of water to drip into the box.  I put in an air stone to allow water movement in the box , plus I use a pre-set, to the tanks temperature, heater.  All of these precautions may seem like a lot but because of my water parameters, I must acclimate fish for a long time, 4 hours.  Using this method, I've never lost a fish.  After acclamation in completed, the fish are removed to the aquarium and ALL water is then thrown away.  Never add LPS water to your established aquarium.   Bill --- On Fri, 6/26/09, Raymond Wetzel <sevenspringss@...> wrote: From: Raymond Wetzel <sevenspringss@...> Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Responses to Angels please help. To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Date: Friday, June 26, 2009, 9:37 AM Floating the bag to first equalize the temperature has always been a major step in acclimating new fish, and while this first step should always be preferable (in this manner -- floating) whenever possible, there are times when for various reasons (there may be too many fish in the bag, the fish is larger than average, the time lapse between store and home is excessive, etc.) the bag needs to be opened to prevent oxygen starvation.  Temperature equalization can likewise be accomplished in the bucket, when adding tank water to it slowly.  During more stressful times when the bag water may be depleted of much of its oxygen, an airstone should be added to the bucket.  If the bag can be allowed to float to equalize the temperature, that is only the first step of acclimation.  The bag should then be opened, a portion (perhaps 20%) of this water should be discarded and some tank water (equal amount as to what was discarded) should be added -- then, with rolling the bag sides down enough to permit the bag to float while open (or resealing the bag), allowing the fish to get used to this new mixture of bag water and tank water. This procedure should be repeated, for a minimum of 20 to 30 minutes -- although this really depends on the differences of pH between the store/bag water and the tank water, with a greater difference requiring more time between partial water additions and more time over all.  This will help the fish adjust to the new water parameters you're putting them in.  Under no circumstances should the fish just be allowed to swim out of their bag into the tank, as the bag water should all be discarded and not added to the tank.  While this may not entirely prevent the introduction of a disease, it may serve to limit it -- and will definitely ensure that any ammonia in the bag water does not get dumped into the tank. Some LFS owners and assistants may be more helpful in telling you what their tanks' pH is (and even the pH of a particular tank), but it's best not to rely on their say so.  They may have been mistaken or they may have given you an average/over-all pH value of all their tanks in general -- or may even have given you the pH of their source water which could have changed in their set up.  Its always best to do a pH test on their water when you get it home.  With increased CO2 being given off in the bag water between the time you left the LFS and the time you got home, the pH may have dropped anyway, from when that same water was tested at the LFS.  Ray --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Jasmine" <adonaikam@...> wrote: > > Sorry, did I understand that you empty your bag into a bucket and add the water from your tank into the bucket (1 large cup every ten minutes)? > > I normally place the seal bag in my tank, allowing it to float for 20 to 30 minutes before I slowly mix the water and allowing the fish to swim out. > > Note:  >      I first ask the LFS what their water reading is and ensure my water is similar.  I even brought my bristlenose first to ensure it would survive.  Left the tank for a week or two with just the bristlenose then went out and got my other fish. > >      Also, if the fish store is about 20 - 30 minutes drive from home - I advise the LFS so they can prepare the fish for the journey AND I also ensure I have a 'hot & cold pack' bag with a few towels (this ensure I keep the temp fairly constant). > > Jasmine > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "anallafamily.2001" <anallafamily.2001@> wrote: > > > > I got plenty of responsies with almost all the same questions. > > water testing... > > The water test that i have been doing is Nitrite, water is testing at 0ppm, ammonia might be high to day at 1.0, and ph is at 6.6. > > chemicals... > > when setting up the tank i used discuss buffer to lower ph  and i used another chemical to get chlorine out. I have also put aquarium salt in tank 1 time (someone suggested it to boost amunity in new fish. > > Buying and acclamating..... > > Ok so i have been buying them at the local walmart because they are cheeper. But I put them in a 5 gal. bucket with there water and a large cup of my water and let them sit 10 min. then add another large cup of my water and let sit another 5min. then i dip net them in my tank not adding any of the water. > > Tank.... > > It is a 55 gal tank with 2 filters on each end and a whisper air pump. I had the tank set up for about 10 weeks but only tryed to add the fish in the last 2weeks. > > I don't know, but i think i have answered all questions. > > thanks Jo > > > ------------------------------------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the home page.  Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com to receive the digest, which includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com for the No E-Mail option where you will still be able to read messages on the group and post replies. Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com to receive individual e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 41451	From: Raymond Wetzel	Date: 6/26/2009
Subject: Re: Angels Please help???

Your tank should be cycled after 2 months, but then, an addition of ammonia should have been eliminated within 24 hours, unless perhaps the dead fish were not removed immediately which may account for your getting a reading. Then too, if this load had tended to be higher (organic waste breaking down at a higher rate) (if your tank were not cycled, for instance), the ammonia may have even read higher; it appears as if this load were sudden, and an overwhelming (within reason) of your ammonia-converting bacteria, the population of them may not have been at a sufficient level (the cycle may have been partially interupted). As the ammonia apparently overloaded the ammonia-converting bacteria at least short-term though, enough for a spike of 1.0 ppm, it would be expected that the nitrite-converting bacteria would at the same time be at least slighty overwhelmed -- giving you some reading (rather than 0.0 ppm) as the second bacteria is dependant on the first, and so their populations and/or their waste-converting capabilities are similar. It would not be expected for the nitrite to read 0.0 ppm under these conditions, only because it would be expected that these nitrite-converting bacteria would have no greater capacity for converting waste. In a way, it's good to see the reading of 0.0 ppm for the nitrite (if it's correct), showing that these bacteria are doing their job, but then, at this same time it's showing that the ammonia-converting bacteria are not doing their job efficiently enough to be passing higher nitrite levels back to the nitrite-converting bacteria. These two bacteria work in concert, at the same rate, in a properly cycled tank under normal conditions. It might appear as though something had happened to your ammonia-converting bacteria population to make it appear as though part of your cycle had been affected prior to this additional load. Ray --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, Joellen & Kevin Analla <anallafamily.2001@...> wrote: > > Well as I know there is no exact amount of time for a tank to cycle it has been set up for at least 2 mo. and before I put angels in it I tested ammonia and it was ok. The ammonia levels have raised only since the fish have been dying. Well yesterday I did a partial water change to try and lower ammonia levels. I have yet to test it this morning to see if it helped. Jo > > --- On Thu, 6/25/09, Raymond Wetzel <sevenspringss@...> wrote: > > > From: Raymond Wetzel <sevenspringss@...> > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Angels Please help??? > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Date: Thursday, June 25, 2009, 9:59 AM > > > > > > > > > Hi Amber, Going with everything I read of Jo's postings on the scenario of this whole situation, yes, I can only conclude with a good deal of certainty that here fish are dying as a result of this infection. This terrible disease was prevalent some 15 to 20 years ago, first eminating, then spreading friom the Far East. While I've lived through this period and have experienced this whole sequence of events day to day of the hobby being so adversely affected by this disease, this is not my reason for my coming to this conclusion. Devastating as it was, I am not an alarmist. > > Others here, who may never have heard of this disease (or who may have, but think this is now past history), cannot know that this disease still survives today in Angelfish from Angelfish stocks still being produced in those areas (Asia & Florida) where the disease originated and then was most prevalent. This disease was never conquered. The Far Eastern Angelfish breeders were never completely wiped out (even though extremely affected by hugh losses) to the point that they started back completely fresh with completely all new stock. The Angelfish stock that they were left with, that finally survived the onslaught due to their immunity system finally coping with this disease is the same stock they continued with -- now a necessarily stronger breeder stock for them and the Florida fish farmers, in that they have a higher immune system to be able to deal with this virus that co-exists with them in their systems. > > However, even though the juveniles from this stock (possibly the 4th or 5th generation by now, from when this first started) are expose to this virus early on in their lives -- their immune systems having to have built up against this disease as they grew to selling size -- the stress of shipping when combined with the constant battle of their immune systems having to deal with this ever-present virus in their systems (due to its ongoing presence in their environment) is just too much for them to endure. The influences of both stresses soon take their toll, manifested as losses within 6 or 7 days for most of the stock that were subjected to the stress of shipping. Any other Angels that seemingly were not quite as affected/stressed by shipping immediately may live a short while later, but by this time the virus is now overpowering their immune system to the point of eventually (often within the month) killing them. Obviously, introducing any Angels in > with these infected fish during this time of them living in limbo is to be subjecting these new Angels to a disease they've never seen and have no defence at all for, with the inevitable loss of them as well. The infected environment is just as deadly to any new Angels, even without the presence of infected fish, until this environment is disinfected. This disease still persists today -- it has never been irradiacated and is an unfortunate situation for an unsuspecting hobbyist who has no previous knowledge of it, when they buy such fish from those sources (like Walmart) which persist in selling them only because these fish are the lowest price their management can find to contract with. It's a very dangerous situation. > > Now, getting back to these other points you've brought up, which need addressing. While, as \\Steve// says, ideally no ammonia should be permitted to exist, and while Jo's ammonia level of 1.0 ppm does certainly appear to be the direct result of an uncycled tank (since ammonia has shown to build up in her tank from 0.0 ppm to 1.0 ppm, yet is not being converted to nitrite) still, with Jo's ph at between 6.5 (original post) and 6.6 (follow-up post) any and all Ammonia would be in the form or relatively harmless Ammonium -- not affecting the Angelfish detrimentally in the least -- so we can rule this out, if that's what you need done. I cannot condone the use of buffers to lower the pH either, and again go right along with \\Steve// on this. Not only as it's not at all needed (especially in this situation of maintaining Angelfish) but can lead to serious consequences such as unstable pH levels and/or even possible pH crashes as \\Steve// points out. > > Still, I see no evidence of Jo having to add any additional amounts of pH buffer between PWC's because of the buffer being exhausted, nor have I seen any high pH level readings, although there still may have been some between PWC's, which may not have been tested for. Likewise, I have fortunately not seen evidence of a pH crash, nor any possible cause for pH shock as a result of such a crash. Jo's methods of acclimating may leave more to be desired even though the concept is correct as, unless she has not given a full description, this tank water introduction to the bucket containing the fish does seem to be too abbreviated. Full acclimation requires more than one or two cups of new water over a period of 15 minutes (as I seem to perceive from her post), but it's possible she may just not have gone into the repetition of this procedure. > > In all, with taking into consideration all possible negative points you've brought up and needed to have addressed, or that \\Steve// or I could think of to be ruled out, I cannot see where any of these other possibilities could enter into consideration -- especially when realizing that these deaths were not a one-time occurance, but have repeatedly happened with each numerous addition of new Angelfish in the many attempts to introduce them to her tank. One might be able to say that in isolated incidences, that a certain batch of Angelfish may have been pH-shocked, or that another batch of Angelfish may have been inadvertantly subjected to lethal levels of ammonia at some point -- which appears quite remote, even if I'm reaching for straws -- but when repeated batches of Angelfish die for no other apparent reason there is a pattern that develops which to me has no other answer than this Virus by what is occurring -- when looking at all other details > involved in this picture. I've seen it too many times to not ignore it, nor mistake it for anything else. Ray > > --- In AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com, Amber Berglund <amber@> wrote: > > > > Ray are you sure that his fish are dying to this infection rather than > > dying from ammonia poisoning from an uncycled tank? Not to mention he > > used a pH adjusting buffer to lower his pH... > > This might just be a lack of experience too I would think it's possible > > at least. We should at least rule those out before rushing into thinking > > it's a serious problem right from the bat (the Angelfish infection). > > > > Amber > > > > Raymond Wetzel wrote: > > > > > > > > > By your post, it appears that you've taken the time to read over my > > > message on the topic, so you could finally understand it -- which I > > > appreciate your doing, as it will only benefit yourself. Your two > > > remaining Angelfish stand a better chance of dying a premature death, > > > and that death may come even sooner than later. I have seen other > > > hobbyists maintaining a few remnant Angels from such origins after the > > > rest of the original stocks of them had perished, only to pass on > > > within the following month (or two, at the latest). You may try to > > > return these two Angels for store credit, if they'll allow it, but > > > otherwise, you'd need to keep only these two until something happens > > > to them. > > > > > > To add any Angelfish from other sources to these two Angelfish, would > > > be to subject them to an infection that they have no immunity for, > > > with the inevitable results of their dying from this, and quite fast. > > > If you want more Angels, and if you want healthy Angels, there is no > > > other choice than to put them in a clean, disinfected tank that you're > > > sure does not contain any disease -- which requires that these two > > > Angelfish no longer inhabit this tank, one way or another. > > > > > > IF there is a better way (and I know of no other way), I would be more > > > than pleased to tell you. As for knowing that a fish will be okay, I > > > can only tell you this -- that I, nor anyone else, cannot say with > > > 100% certainty that your two remaining Angelfish are not okay -- it's > > > impossible for me to be able to do that from where I am (not within > > > reach of your fish) or without the benefit of a slide smear of this > > > fish's waste to evaluate under the microscope. But ALL things you've > > > related about these fish and their deceased siblings, including their > > > source, the suddenness of their demise and the repetition of these > > > same circumstances spells out for me with enough certainty with all > > > I've experienced and learned of this very disease, that this is indeed > > > the dreaded fatal pathogen that has plagued Angelfish ongoing from a > > > quarter century ago. > > > > > > I could choose to see your Angelfish loses as just the chance results > > > of poorer than required water conditions combined with your possible > > > inexperience with them and the luck of the draw along with the > > > inevitableness of young Angels dying en-mass for unexplained reasons > > > not unrelated to your general lack of aquarium knowledge at this stage > > > of the game -- as some here may be suggesting -- but to do so would be > > > to go against everything I've learned about Angelfish in 62 years of > > > working with them, and living through the horrid period of decimation > > > of these fish through the spread of this Virus. > > > > > > I've seen many, many cases of this virus striking Angelfish and have > > > known many Angelfish breeders who were effected by the devastation of > > > it and the experiences they've gone through during the peak period > > > when this Virus was at its worst. > > > > > > AND . . . > > > > > > I have seen in TODAY's WORLD, the EXACT same thing as you are > > > describing happening to you, of Angelfish being sold by Walmart (and > > > others) which are infected by this virus and which have been dropping > > > otherwise unexplainedly like flies -- INCLUDING having one or two fish > > > temporarily survive this onslault only to died within the following > > > month. I DO NOT think this is all coincidental. My brother (who had > > > yet to learn of this disease) experienced the VERY things with young > > > Angelfish he recently bought from Walmart a couple of months ago, > > > amost word for word. In his case, his lone surviving Angel lasted > > > another 3 weeks after the first ones died -- and he knows about > > > keeping fish properly. Many of my customers (fish store owners who > > > purchase my Angelfish) have told me of the quality of Angelfish (and > > > the Virus they still carry) they've bought in the recent past from > > > both Florida and directly from the Far East that just fold up on them > > > within a week's time, often resulting in complete losses -- the > > > unaccounted for ones having already been sold prior to the end of the > > > week. These sources and the Angelfish Virus they promote through > > > selling infected fish are still notorious for spreading this disease > > > with the help of unknowing dealers and hobbyists even today. > > > > > > Of course, you do not need to believe me, but then it would be folly > > > to continue in the manner you're attempting to add Angelfish to your > > > tank in hopes they'll survive. For all we know though, without having > > > your two Angelfish analyzed, they may be the healthiest Angels on > > > earth -- But I wouldn't want to bet the farm on it! > > > > > > I suggested to you what needs to be done to succeed. You may follow > > > this advice, or you may ignore it -- that's your decision. When buying > > > from a different source, a reputable breeder who has reliably supplied > > > quality disease-free Angelfish for many years simply cannot afford to > > > risk selling diseased Angelfish, and still have his business and > > > reputation survive. IF contemplating buying from such a known and > > > reputable dealer, you need to make sure whom you are dealing with. > > > There are many reputable Angelfish breeders in existance, but with > > > your not having the experience to know which are the better ones, you > > > may not know yet who to buy from with confidence. I WILL tell you that > > > you can't expect to pay Walmart prices and still get good fish. A lot > > > of work goes into raising these Angelfish and as a result these > > > breeders will (need) to charge more, but a good breeder will be fair > > > -- he does not need to price-gouge. If you're still following up on > > > this, and need further advise, there are a number of people here who > > > can best assist you with recommending breeders of quality Angels. I > > > can start by wholeheartedly recommending Steve Rybicki of Angels Plus > > > as one whom I can vouch for selling disease-free Angelfish; Steve's > > > been in the business for at least 25 years. Ray > > > > > > --- In AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com > > > <mailto:AquaticLife %40yahoogroups. com>, Joellen & Kevin Analla > > > <anallafamily. 2001@> wrote: > > > > > > > > So basically what your saying is that all fish in tank (2Angels) > > > must die then i need to disinfect all equipment then start all over > > > buying from a different source but theres no garanteen that even a > > > differant source could still get infected in that case i would have to > > > repeat process agian......Really isnt there a better way, or even a > > > way of knowing that fish will be ok . > > > > > > > > --- On Wed, 6/24/09, Raymond Wetzel <sevenspringss@ > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > From: Raymond Wetzel <sevenspringss@ > > > > > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Angels Please help??? > > > > To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com <mailto:AquaticLife %40yahoogroups. com> > > > > Date: Wednesday, June 24, 2009, 1:33 AM > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Hello Jo, So sorry you are running into this frustrating experience > > > in trying to keep Angelfish, when the species is not difficult to > > > maintain. Ordinarily, we would ask just what you meant (and will still > > > do this) when you say that your water is all testing okay. When giving > > > us any of your data concerning your water parameters, we prefer to > > > have number to be evaluate your circumstances, and the actual test > > > results in ppm (parts per million) best reflect your actual > > > conditions. If you could give us your test results for pH, ammonia, > > > nitrite and even nitrate, it could be a great help. If you can provide > > > results for temporary hardness (KH) and total/general hardness (GH), > > > this may be of further assistance to us -- the more information, the > > > better. BUT, in this particular case, I do not believe it's your water > > > quality that's at fault, even though we need to rule that out. > > > > > > > > Most unfortunately, new prospective Angelfish hobbyists will run > > > into this situation when buying from retailers who prefer obtaining > > > their Angelfish stocks indiscriminantly, possibly in an effort to save > > > money or perhaps just for the convenience. However, in buying in > > > essence what can be established as inferior stock, I fail to see what > > > they think they gain. Unfortunately too, the customer (you) is too > > > often unsuspecting of this possibility and blame the deaths of these > > > fish on themselves, when in truth it's the poor stock itself that > > > these outlets continue to retail -- despite the many losses they > > > themselves have with each re-stocking. > > > > > > > > These retailers know that they will not be alienating their > > > customers, as these customers are completely unaware that this stock > > > is inferior, and in their quest to maintain this beautiful species, > > > they repeatedly buy new stock in hopes they can keep them alive. Some > > > of the larger chain stores (and some smaller shops) operate in this > > > manner, Walmart having been one of them until they gave up selling > > > tropical fish; these stores continuing to buy their Angels only from > > > preferred sources which may include a headquarter- -designated > > > distributor, a Florida fish farm, a local wholesaler that buys from > > > either Florida or the Far East, or a Far East breeding establishment- > > > -exporter -- rather than a reputable domestic breeder. > > > > > > > > Now, getting to the root of this practice and its problem. Going > > > back some 15 years or slightly more, there was a major outbreak of a > > > horrific Angelfish Virus disease originating in the Far East, > > > decimating Angelfish stocks there as well as in this country when it > > > was introduced here through imports of that stock into this country. > > > Many domestic Angelfish breeders in this country were wiped out or at > > > least partially effected, not suspecting this problem, and mixed that > > > stock with theirs. The problem didn't stop there in this country as a > > > good number of the Florida fish farmers also introduced this diseased > > > Asian stock of Angelfish to their hatcheries in efforts to strengthen > > > their own stocks with "new blood," not yet knowing the consequences > > > they would have to pay. > > > > > > > > Gradually, this disease was finally contained although never > > > completely cured. Those Asian stocks that survived were strengthened > > > by natural selection to be able to remain viable while still carrying > > > th Virus as a latent disease always present but under control of these > > > latest Angelfish's adapted immune systems. This same adaptation of the > > > Angelfish's immune system to contain this Virus as of late, also > > > emerged from those Florida fish farm's stocks which were similarly > > > effected. > > > > > > > > As a result, most any Angelfish derived today from either those > > > effected Florida fish farms or those Far Eastern hatchery/exporters > > > carry this Virus as a weaker (as controlled now by these Angels' new > > > but limited immunity), yet still viable disease still capable of > > > overtaking the Angelfish as soon as receieves enough stress. This > > > shared (but not mutually beneficial where the fish is concerned) > > > existance is called "symbiosis," and is seen also in many Cichlids -- > > > including Angelfish -- as Hexamita, where this protozoan resides in a > > > latent condition in the fish's intestine, only to overtake the fish > > > when the fish experiences sufficient stress for it to do so. > > > > > > > > So, now when these Angelfish (carrying this disease) reach your > > > local fish store, they look fine at first and appear most healthy. > > > However, the stress of shipping soon takes its toll over the next week > > > as the disease now devastates these stressed and weakened fish. These > > > fish are not expected to last much more than an average of 6 or 7 days > > > as a result of what happens with them. Likewise, many (most?) of the > > > same fish in these stores that stock them soon die also (they are > > > KNOWN to fold up), but the storekeeper has still made his profit and > > > has "satisfied" his customers, which causes them to keep coming back > > > to those stores. > > > > > > > > If any of this rings a bell for you, you may finally be > > > understanding what's happening with your Angelfish. A few, such as the > > > two you have that survived so far will live for an undetermined period > > > of time, but their days are still numbered (could live for another few > > > weeks or so). If you still want to keep Angelfish, you cannot continue > > > to buy them from this present source as they'll meet the same fate, > > > nor can you add any other Angelfish to this tank from a different > > > source as they'll become infected. I really hate to have to suggest > > > this, and I don't know if you have any other species of fish presently > > > in this tank, but before you add any more Angels -- and they MUST be > > > from a reputable domestic breeder -- this tank and all its equipment > > > must be disinfected after these two remaining Angels secumb. I hope > > > this whole scenario of events as pertains to Angelfish has been at > > > least enlightening for you, and will serve to assist you in the future > > > (we'll > > > > still be here to help). I regret that since you most probably have > > > introduced disease-carrying Angelfish unknowingly, that you'll have a > > > long road ahead of you in maintaining your goal, but at least now you > > > know what to expect. Please keep us posted, Ray > > > > > > > > --- In AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com, "anallafamily. 2001" > > > <anallafamily. 2001@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > I'm new to the group so just let me know if I say or do something > > > not right...... > > > > > My Question.... I wanted to start up an angel tank so I have a > > > 55gal set up.. I keep buying 5 angels at a time and they keep dying > > > slowly but surely.. I think altogether I have bought 16 Angels and I > > > have managed to get 2 to live for at least 6 days now. I have plenty > > > of filtration and water flow, I have ph at 6.5 and water is all > > > testing ok... So what am I doing wrong? and should I go get more since > > > I got 2 to live uhhhhhh What do I do I feel like I want to give up but > > > I really thought they were such a beautiful fish. > > > > > Please Help Jo.. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 41452	From: Raymond Wetzel	Date: 6/26/2009
Subject: Re: Angels Please help???

I meant to add something to this, but sent it before I thought of completing it. Anyway, in short -- it appeared as though you had a mini-cycle (like your tank was not properly cycled at the time to be able to handle the ammonia). Now, as for water changes, while it's alway best to keep your ammonia at a minimum, you don't want to remove it all physically before your ammonia-converting bacteria have had a chance to utilize it to build up their population to a proper level -- to re-cycle your tank. Then too, I don't know the pH of your tap water and how much each PWC will affect your present pH reading. As I've stated before, your fish are safe with a 1.0 ppm level of total Ammonia at a pH of 6.6. It would take quite a bit of PWCing to change your pH drastically enough so that this Ammonia would be toxic to your fish, even if your tap water were at pH 7.8. You should know though, that besides the pH affecting the toxicity of Ammonia, the temperature also plays a role in it. At 68 o, this level (1.0 ppm) of total ammonia does not become toxic until the pH falls to 7.7. At 74 o, a pH of 7.6 is required to make the Ammonia toxic (creating/converting enough free-Ammonia from the Ammonium) and at a temperature of 80 o, this same level of Ammonia will become toxic at pH 7.5. It will not be lethal though, until the temperature gets to 85 o at pH 7.6. This is on average as each species is affected a bit differently by Ammonia, some being a bit more intolerant than others, but it's sufficiently in the ball park. Ray --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, Joellen & Kevin Analla <anallafamily.2001@...> wrote: > > Well as I know there is no exact amount of time for a tank to cycle it has been set up for at least 2 mo. and before I put angels in it I tested ammonia and it was ok. The ammonia levels have raised only since the fish have been dieing. Well yesterday I did a partial water change to try and lower ammonia levels. I have yet to test it this morning to see if it helped. Jo > > --- On Thu, 6/25/09, Raymond Wetzel <sevenspringss@...> wrote: > > > From: Raymond Wetzel <sevenspringss@...> > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Angels Please help??? > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Date: Thursday, June 25, 2009, 9:59 AM > > > > > > > > > Hi Amber, Going with everything I read of Jo's postings on the scenario of this whole situation, yes, I can only conclude with a good deal of certainty that here fish are dying as a result of this infection. This terrible disease was prevalent some 15 to 20 years ago, first eminating, then spreading friom the Far East. While I've lived through this period and have experienced this whole sequence of events day to day of the hobby being so adversely affected by this disease, this is not my reason for my coming to this conclusion. Devastating as it was, I am not an alarmist. > > Others here, who may never have heard of this disease (or who may have, but think this is now past history), cannot know that this disease still survives today in Angelfish from Angelfish stocks still being produced in those areas (Asia & Florida) where the disease originated and then was most prevalent. This disease was never conquered. The Far Eastern Angelfish breeders were never completely wiped out (even though extremely affected by hugh losses) to the point that they started back completely fresh with completely all new stock. The Angelfish stock that they were left with, that finally survived the onslaught due to their immunity system finally coping with this disease is the same stock they continued with -- now a necessarily stronger breeder stock for them and the Florida fish farmers, in that they have a higher immune system to be able to deal with this virus that co-exists with them in their systems. > > However, even though the juveniles from this stock (possibly the 4th or 5th generation by now, from when this first started) are expose to this virus early on in their lives -- their immune systems having to have built up against this disease as they grew to selling size -- the stress of shipping when combined with the constant battle of their immune systems having to deal with this ever-present virus in their systems (due to its ongoing presence in their environment) is just too much for them to endure. The influences of both stresses soon take their toll, manifested as losses within 6 or 7 days for most of the stock that were subjected to the stress of shipping. Any other Angels that seemingly were not quite as affected/stressed by shipping immediately may live a short while later, but by this time the virus is now overpowering their immune system to the point of eventually (often within the month) killing them. Obviously, introducing any Angels in > with these infected fish during this time of them living in limbo is to be subjecting these new Angels to a disease they've never seen and have no defence at all for, with the inevitable loss of them as well. The infected environment is just as deadly to any new Angels, even without the presence of infected fish, until this environment is disinfected. This disease still persists today -- it has never been irradiacated and is an unfortunate situation for an unsuspecting hobbyist who has no previous knowledge of it, when they buy such fish from those sources (like Walmart) which persist in selling them only because these fish are the lowest price their management can find to contract with. It's a very dangerous situation. > > Now, getting back to these other points you've brought up, which need addressing. While, as \\Steve// says, ideally no ammonia should be permitted to exist, and while Jo's ammonia level of 1.0 ppm does certainly appear to be the direct result of an uncycled tank (since ammonia has shown to build up in her tank from 0.0 ppm to 1.0 ppm, yet is not being converted to nitrite) still, with Jo's ph at between 6.5 (original post) and 6.6 (follow-up post) any and all Ammonia would be in the form or relatively harmless Ammonium -- not affecting the Angelfish detrimentally in the least -- so we can rule this out, if that's what you need done. I cannot condone the use of buffers to lower the pH either, and again go right along with \\Steve// on this. Not only as it's not at all needed (especially in this situation of maintaining Angelfish) but can lead to serious consequences such as unstable pH levels and/or even possible pH crashes as \\Steve// points out. > > Still, I see no evidence of Jo having to add any additional amounts of pH buffer between PWC's because of the buffer being exhausted, nor have I seen any high pH level readings, although there still may have been some between PWC's, which may not have been tested for. Likewise, I have fortunately not seen evidence of a pH crash, nor any possible cause for pH shock as a result of such a crash. Jo's methods of acclimating may leave more to be desired even though the concept is correct as, unless she has not given a full description, this tank water introduction to the bucket containing the fish does seem to be too abbreviated. Full acclimation requires more than one or two cups of new water over a period of 15 minutes (as I seem to perceive from her post), but it's possible she may just not have gone into the repetition of this procedure. > > In all, with taking into consideration all possible negative points you've brought up and needed to have addressed, or that \\Steve// or I could think of to be ruled out, I cannot see where any of these other possibilities could enter into consideration -- especially when realizing that these deaths were not a one-time occurance, but have repeatedly happened with each numerous addition of new Angelfish in the many attempts to introduce them to her tank. One might be able to say that in isolated incidences, that a certain batch of Angelfish may have been pH-shocked, or that another batch of Angelfish may have been inadvertantly subjected to lethal levels of ammonia at some point -- which appears quite remote, even if I'm reaching for straws -- but when repeated batches of Angelfish die for no other apparent reason there is a pattern that develops which to me has no other answer than this Virus by what is occurring -- when looking at all other details > involved in this picture. I've seen it too many times to not ignore it, nor mistake it for anything else. Ray > > --- In AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com, Amber Berglund <amber@> wrote: > > > > Ray are you sure that his fish are dying to this infection rather than > > dying from ammonia poisoning from an uncycled tank? Not to mention he > > used a pH adjusting buffer to lower his pH... > > This might just be a lack of experience too I would think it's possible > > at least. We should at least rule those out before rushing into thinking > > it's a serious problem right from the bat (the Angelfish infection). > > > > Amber > > > > Raymond Wetzel wrote: > > > > > > > > > By your post, it appears that you've taken the time to read over my > > > message on the topic, so you could finally understand it -- which I > > > appreciate your doing, as it will only benefit yourself. Your two > > > remaining Angelfish stand a better chance of dying a premature death, > > > and that death may come even sooner than later. I have seen other > > > hobbyists maintaining a few remnant Angels from such origins after the > > > rest of the original stocks of them had perished, only to pass on > > > within the following month (or two, at the latest). You may try to > > > return these two Angels for store credit, if they'll allow it, but > > > otherwise, you'd need to keep only these two until something happens > > > to them. > > > > > > To add any Angelfish from other sources to these two Angelfish, would > > > be to subject them to an infection that they have no immunity for, > > > with the inevitable results of their dying from this, and quite fast. > > > If you want more Angels, and if you want healthy Angels, there is no > > > other choice than to put them in a clean, disinfected tank that you're > > > sure does not contain any disease -- which requires that these two > > > Angelfish no longer inhabit this tank, one way or another. > > > > > > IF there is a better way (and I know of no other way), I would be more > > > than pleased to tell you. As for knowing that a fish will be okay, I > > > can only tell you this -- that I, nor anyone else, cannot say with > > > 100% certainty that your two remaining Angelfish are not okay -- it's > > > impossible for me to be able to do that from where I am (not within > > > reach of your fish) or without the benefit of a slide smear of this > > > fish's waste to evaluate under the microscope. But ALL things you've > > > related about these fish and their deceased siblings, including their > > > source, the suddenness of their demise and the repetition of these > > > same circumstances spells out for me with enough certainty with all > > > I've experienced and learned of this very disease, that this is indeed > > > the dreaded fatal pathogen that has plagued Angelfish ongoing from a > > > quarter century ago. > > > > > > I could choose to see your Angelfish loses as just the chance results > > > of poorer than required water conditions combined with your possible > > > inexperience with them and the luck of the draw along with the > > > inevitableness of young Angels dying en-mass for unexplained reasons > > > not unrelated to your general lack of aquarium knowledge at this stage > > > of the game -- as some here may be suggesting -- but to do so would be > > > to go against everything I've learned about Angelfish in 62 years of > > > working with them, and living through the horrid period of decimation > > > of these fish through the spread of this Virus. > > > > > > I've seen many, many cases of this virus striking Angelfish and have > > > known many Angelfish breeders who were effected by the devastation of > > > it and the experiences they've gone through during the peak period > > > when this Virus was at its worst. > > > > > > AND . . . > > > > > > I have seen in TODAY's WORLD, the EXACT same thing as you are > > > describing happening to you, of Angelfish being sold by Walmart (and > > > others) which are infected by this virus and which have been dropping > > > otherwise unexplainedly like flies -- INCLUDING having one or two fish > > > temporarily survive this onslault only to died within the following > > > month. I DO NOT think this is all coincidental. My brother (who had > > > yet to learn of this disease) experienced the VERY things with young > > > Angelfish he recently bought from Walmart a couple of months ago, > > > amost word for word. In his case, his lone surviving Angel lasted > > > another 3 weeks after the first ones died -- and he knows about > > > keeping fish properly. Many of my customers (fish store owners who > > > purchase my Angelfish) have told me of the quality of Angelfish (and > > > the Virus they still carry) they've bought in the recent past from > > > both Florida and directly from the Far East that just fold up on them > > > within a week's time, often resulting in complete losses -- the > > > unaccounted for ones having already been sold prior to the end of the > > > week. These sources and the Angelfish Virus they promote through > > > selling infected fish are still notorious for spreading this disease > > > with the help of unknowing dealers and hobbyists even today. > > > > > > Of course, you do not need to believe me, but then it would be folly > > > to continue in the manner you're attempting to add Angelfish to your > > > tank in hopes they'll survive. For all we know though, without having > > > your two Angelfish analyzed, they may be the healthiest Angels on > > > earth -- But I wouldn't want to bet the farm on it! > > > > > > I suggested to you what needs to be done to succeed. You may follow > > > this advice, or you may ignore it -- that's your decision. When buying > > > from a different source, a reputable breeder who has reliably supplied > > > quality disease-free Angelfish for many years simply cannot afford to > > > risk selling diseased Angelfish, and still have his business and > > > reputation survive. IF contemplating buying from such a known and > > > reputable dealer, you need to make sure whom you are dealing with. > > > There are many reputable Angelfish breeders in existance, but with > > > your not having the experience to know which are the better ones, you > > > may not know yet who to buy from with confidence. I WILL tell you that > > > you can't expect to pay Walmart prices and still get good fish. A lot > > > of work goes into raising these Angelfish and as a result these > > > breeders will (need) to charge more, but a good breeder will be fair > > > -- he does not need to price-gouge. If you're still following up on > > > this, and need further advise, there are a number of people here who > > > can best assist you with recommending breeders of quality Angels. I > > > can start by wholeheartedly recommending Steve Rybicki of Angels Plus > > > as one whom I can vouch for selling disease-free Angelfish; Steve's > > > been in the business for at least 25 years. Ray > > > > > > --- In AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com > > > <mailto:AquaticLife %40yahoogroups. com>, Joellen & Kevin Analla > > > <anallafamily. 2001@> wrote: > > > > > > > > So basically what your saying is that all fish in tank (2Angels) > > > must die then i need to disinfect all equipment then start all over > > > buying from a different source but theres no garanteen that even a > > > differant source could still get infected in that case i would have to > > > repeat process agian......Really isnt there a better way, or even a > > > way of knowing that fish will be ok . > > > > > > > > --- On Wed, 6/24/09, Raymond Wetzel <sevenspringss@ > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > From: Raymond Wetzel <sevenspringss@ > > > > > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Angels Please help??? > > > > To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com <mailto:AquaticLife %40yahoogroups. com> > > > > Date: Wednesday, June 24, 2009, 1:33 AM > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Hello Jo, So sorry you are running into this frustrating experience > > > in trying to keep Angelfish, when the species is not difficult to > > > maintain. Ordinarily, we would ask just what you meant (and will still > > > do this) when you say that your water is all testing okay. When giving > > > us any of your data concerning your water parameters, we prefer to > > > have number to be evaluate your circumstances, and the actual test > > > results in ppm (parts per million) best reflect your actual > > > conditions. If you could give us your test results for pH, ammonia, > > > nitrite and even nitrate, it could be a great help. If you can provide > > > results for temporary hardness (KH) and total/general hardness (GH), > > > this may be of further assistance to us -- the more information, the > > > better. BUT, in this particular case, I do not believe it's your water > > > quality that's at fault, even though we need to rule that out. > > > > > > > > Most unfortunately, new prospective Angelfish hobbyists will run > > > into this situation when buying from retailers who prefer obtaining > > > their Angelfish stocks indiscriminantly, possibly in an effort to save > > > money or perhaps just for the convenience. However, in buying in > > > essence what can be established as inferior stock, I fail to see what > > > they think they gain. Unfortunately too, the customer (you) is too > > > often unsuspecting of this possibility and blame the deaths of these > > > fish on themselves, when in truth it's the poor stock itself that > > > these outlets continue to retail -- despite the many losses they > > > themselves have with each re-stocking. > > > > > > > > These retailers know that they will not be alienating their > > > customers, as these customers are completely unaware that this stock > > > is inferior, and in their quest to maintain this beautiful species, > > > they repeatedly buy new stock in hopes they can keep them alive. Some > > > of the larger chain stores (and some smaller shops) operate in this > > > manner, Walmart having been one of them until they gave up selling > > > tropical fish; these stores continuing to buy their Angels only from > > > preferred sources which may include a headquarter- -designated > > > distributor, a Florida fish farm, a local wholesaler that buys from > > > either Florida or the Far East, or a Far East breeding establishment- > > > -exporter -- rather than a reputable domestic breeder. > > > > > > > > Now, getting to the root of this practice and its problem. Going > > > back some 15 years or slightly more, there was a major outbreak of a > > > horrific Angelfish Virus disease originating in the Far East, > > > decimating Angelfish stocks there as well as in this country when it > > > was introduced here through imports of that stock into this country. > > > Many domestic Angelfish breeders in this country were wiped out or at > > > least partially effected, not suspecting this problem, and mixed that > > > stock with theirs. The problem didn't stop there in this country as a > > > good number of the Florida fish farmers also introduced this diseased > > > Asian stock of Angelfish to their hatcheries in efforts to strengthen > > > their own stocks with "new blood," not yet knowing the consequences > > > they would have to pay. > > > > > > > > Gradually, this disease was finally contained although never > > > completely cured. Those Asian stocks that survived were strengthened > > > by natural selection to be able to remain viable while still carrying > > > th Virus as a latent disease always present but under control of these > > > latest Angelfish's adapted immune systems. This same adaptation of the > > > Angelfish's immune system to contain this Virus as of late, also > > > emerged from those Florida fish farm's stocks which were similarly > > > effected. > > > > > > > > As a result, most any Angelfish derived today from either those > > > effected Florida fish farms or those Far Eastern hatchery/exporters > > > carry this Virus as a weaker (as controlled now by these Angels' new > > > but limited immunity), yet still viable disease still capable of > > > overtaking the Angelfish as soon as receieves enough stress. This > > > shared (but not mutually beneficial where the fish is concerned) > > > existance is called "symbiosis," and is seen also in many Cichlids -- > > > including Angelfish -- as Hexamita, where this protozoan resides in a > > > latent condition in the fish's intestine, only to overtake the fish > > > when the fish experiences sufficient stress for it to do so. > > > > > > > > So, now when these Angelfish (carrying this disease) reach your > > > local fish store, they look fine at first and appear most healthy. > > > However, the stress of shipping soon takes its toll over the next week > > > as the disease now devastates these stressed and weakened fish. These > > > fish are not expected to last much more than an average of 6 or 7 days > > > as a result of what happens with them. Likewise, many (most?) of the > > > same fish in these stores that stock them soon die also (they are > > > KNOWN to fold up), but the storekeeper has still made his profit and > > > has "satisfied" his customers, which causes them to keep coming back > > > to those stores. > > > > > > > > If any of this rings a bell for you, you may finally be > > > understanding what's happening with your Angelfish. A few, such as the > > > two you have that survived so far will live for an undetermined period > > > of time, but their days are still numbered (could live for another few > > > weeks or so). If you still want to keep Angelfish, you cannot continue > > > to buy them from this present source as they'll meet the same fate, > > > nor can you add any other Angelfish to this tank from a different > > > source as they'll become infected. I really hate to have to suggest > > > this, and I don't know if you have any other species of fish presently > > > in this tank, but before you add any more Angels -- and they MUST be > > > from a reputable domestic breeder -- this tank and all its equipment > > > must be disinfected after these two remaining Angels secumb. I hope > > > this whole scenario of events as pertains to Angelfish has been at > > > least enlightening for you, and will serve to assist you in the future > > > (we'll > > > > still be here to help). I regret that since you most probably have > > > introduced disease-carrying Angelfish unknowingly, that you'll have a > > > long road ahead of you in maintaining your goal, but at least now you > > > know what to expect. Please keep us posted, Ray > > > > > > > > --- In AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com, "anallafamily. 2001" > > > <anallafamily. 2001@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > I'm new to the group so just let me know if I say or do something > > > not right...... > > > > > My Question.... I wanted to start up an angel tank so I have a > > > 55gal set up.. I keep buying 5 angels at a time and they keep dying > > > slowly but surely.. I think altogether I have bought 16 Angels and I > > > have managed to get 2 to live for at least 6 days now. I have plenty > > > of filtration and water flow, I have ph at 6.5 and water is all > > > testing ok... So what am I doing wrong? and should I go get more since > > > I got 2 to live uhhhhhh What do I do I feel like I want to give up but > > > I really thought they were such a beautiful fish. > > > > > Please Help Jo.. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 41453	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 6/26/2009
Subject: Re: 55 gallon community tank

I soaked in hot water and rinsed it very well, I wasn't sure if I could boil it though, so I just used really hot tap water instead. It's also been sitting outside on the porch for about 5 months ;) I don't like using bleach, I guess I tend to mess stuff up when I try to use such a strong product, LOL. I bought some filter bags off of marine depot but they're gigantic, didn't think they would be that big for some reason, so I want to cut them in half and resew them so I can use them in the filters, but for now I wanted to add some crushed coral to the tank. Amber bill 1433 wrote: > > > > Hi Amber, > > I am still trying to figure out exactly what your trying to do here. > Sorry I lost your original post. But may I offer some food for thought? > > First, here is a link and picture of the Oyster Shell Flour and its > manufacture: > > http://www.downtoearthdistributors.com/oystershell.html > <http://www.downtoearthdistributors.com/oystershell.html> > > Next, I am reading in the postings this morning that your adding "hand > fulls" of coral to the tank? > If you go to far (and I did, so I know) its the devil to get it back > out. Use some type of bag for control. > > And finally, on the bag itself, you can get a regular one for this > purpose at Dr's. here: > http://pet-supplies.drsfostersmith.com/search?af=type%3Aproduct&cartcount=0&wishcount=0&subtotal=0.00&w=mesh+bag&asug=mesh > <http://pet-supplies.drsfostersmith.com/search?af=type%3Aproduct&cartcount=0&wishcount=0&subtotal=0.00&w=mesh+bag&asug=mesh> > > Now if you are using your own, as Len mentioned, not Fish-Nets, use > real nylons. By that I mean stockings, not pantyhose. Why? While I > am not proficient in ladies wear, I am almost positive that pantyhose > products contain Spandex? I don't think you want that chemical in > your aquarium water as it could break down in time and who knows were > that could lead. Stay with anything that's 100% nylon. > > "Playing in the Water" as I like to call it, is not advisable but it > can be done. If your taking readings and the proper notes, over time > you will develope a regular system and once your goals are reached you > will learn how much water to use in your regualr water changes so as > to not upset the balance you have acheieved. You mentioned this > morning about having that coral from the orginal owner? Please tell > me you "sterlized" what portions you are using BEFORE putting it into > your aquarium? > > Bill > > --- On Fri, 6/26/09, Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@... > <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com>> wrote: > > From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@... > <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com>> > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] 55 gallon community tank > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Date: Friday, June 26, 2009, 4:59 AM > > I've never seen a good article on the proper use of crushed coral. I > think > there are so many variables that it's hard to know precisely how much to > use. It's probably something someone with multiple tanks could do and > keep > accurate records over the course of several months and then come up with > some kind of formula, then publish the formula to get more people > trying it > and reporting back with their results to make sure the formula works > for the > masses. > > The problems that I see is that the more acidic the water, the faster the > coral would be dissolve BUT if the water is acidic and has a high GH > and low > KH, then the calcium side of the coral would not dissolve as fast. If the > water is acidic and has a high KH and low GH, then the carbonate side > would > not dissolve as fast. If the water is not acidic, then the coral would > dissolve much slower. Of course, the flow rate of the water through the > filter also has some factor in the dissolve rate. I'm not sure how these > variables would affect how much should be used. I'm guessing there would > have to be a baseline established at 7.0 pH with moderate GH and KH levels > and then work up and down from there. One figure I've seen posted in > forums > before was 1kg per 40 liters of water, when used as in the substrate. > That > would translate to around 2 pounds per 10G of water. Obviously, not > something you could fit in a filter system. That's the other problem for > many folks. While folks with BIG canister filters could use the crushed > coral in a filter media bag in their filter reservoir, this isn't possible > with most of the smaller HOB's. > > I think it really comes down to each fishkeeper coming up with their own > "system" of how to use crushed coral or cuttlebone. That's the good thing > about using things like Baking Soda and Oyster Flour... they can be > precisely measured, dosed and measured with test kits to see that they are > doing what they are supposed to be doing. > > Of course, when things get too complicated... keep fish that like your > source water in the first place. Of course, when one wants to have a > heavily planted tank and/or keep fish that do not do well with their > baseline water, then these other measures become necessary. > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right > side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On > Behalf Of Amber Berglund > Sent: Friday, June 26, 2009 12:44 AM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] 55 gallon community tank > > most of the crushed coral is sold live, they're getting it somewhere, > hmmm... wonder where? ;) Should I wait to add any more of the crushed > coral? > I'm not sure how fast it would normally affect the GH or KH. > > Amber > > Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > > > > > > OOHHHH.. so now we have a conspiracy of reef destroyers. LOL > > > > I wonder where they get the "crushed coral" that is sold? I see that > > the CaribSea brand is called Florida Crushed Coral. With the > > protection that most places give to their coral reefs, you would think > > that selling crushed coral would be a no-no. Florida even has a > > section of their Dept. Of Environmental Protection website talking > > about saving their reefs. > > http://www.dep.state.fl.us/coastal/programs/coral/maritime.htm > <http://www.dep.state.fl.us/coastal/programs/coral/maritime.htm> > > <http://www.dep.state.fl.us/coastal/programs/coral/maritime.htm > <http://www.dep.state.fl.us/coastal/programs/coral/maritime.htm>> > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>> > (Links to any articles referenced in > > above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels > > and also under Archives by Year, Month) > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On Behalf Of Amber Berglund > > Sent: Thursday, June 25, 2009 11:17 PM > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] 55 gallon community tank > > > > I didn't destroy anything, it was given to me by the previous owner of > > the > > 125 gallon tank, she was going to throw it away so I said i would take > > it off of her hands, figured it may come in handy some day ;) > > > > Amber > > > > Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > > > > > > > > > Calcium would affect GH. > > > > > > I'm not going to ask which reef you destroyed for that garbage can > > > full of crushed coral.... and hopefully the reef-huggers aren't > > > reading this thread. > > > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>> > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>>> > > (Links to any articles referenced in > > > above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under > > > Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) > > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On Behalf Of Amber Berglund > > > Sent: Thursday, June 25, 2009 10:58 PM > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] 55 gallon community tank > > > > > > I have a garbage can full of crushed coral ;) LOL. > > > That's going to last me awhile for now, and it's free. > > > I will figure out something different when I run low on the crushed > > > coral ;) > > > > > > Also no one answered my question about calcium chloride, what does > > > it affect? GH or KH? I bought it for when I have the snails, wanted > > > to have calcium on hand. > > > > > > Amber > > > > > > Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > OK. If the crushed coral is raising it up from the 33ppm range to > > > > the 75ppm range, then you are probably going to be OK. > > > > > > > > Crushed coral can/should raise both since crushed coral is > > > > supposed to be calcium carbonate also. > > > > > > > > Here's a snip from my calculations post in the Ponds-Koi forum. Of > > > > course, this snip is dealing with something like Oyster Flour > > > > which is immediately dissolvable in the water column, not > > > > something you have to wait to break down like crushed coral. The > > > > Carbonate could be dissolving so slowly that your tank's ecology > > > > is using it up faster or as fast as it is being released. > > > > > > > > > > "...Two teaspoons (about 4 grams) of calcium carbonate > > > > > > (CaCO3) per 50 liters of water will increase both KH and GH by > > > > > > 4 degrees..." from > http://www.thekrib.com/Plants/CO2/khgh.html > <http://www.thekrib.com/Plants/CO2/khgh.html> > > <http://www.thekrib.com/Plants/CO2/khgh.html > <http://www.thekrib.com/Plants/CO2/khgh.html>> > > > <http://www.thekrib.com/Plants/CO2/khgh.html > <http://www.thekrib.com/Plants/CO2/khgh.html> > > <http://www.thekrib.com/Plants/CO2/khgh.html > <http://www.thekrib.com/Plants/CO2/khgh.html>>> > > > > <http://www.thekrib.com/Plants/CO2/khgh.html > <http://www.thekrib.com/Plants/CO2/khgh.html> > > <http://www.thekrib.com/Plants/CO2/khgh.html > <http://www.thekrib.com/Plants/CO2/khgh.html>> > > > <http://www.thekrib.com/Plants/CO2/khgh.html > <http://www.thekrib.com/Plants/CO2/khgh.html> > > <http://www.thekrib.com/Plants/CO2/khgh.html > <http://www.thekrib.com/Plants/CO2/khgh.html>>>> and since > > > > > > raising it 4 degrees is kind of where we want to raise it > > > > > > since it has > > > > > > 1 degree already, it's just a matter of doing a little more > math. > > > > > > ------------------------------------ > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. > ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> > PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT > important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message > MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- > <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. > > If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of unsubscribing, > you can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My > Membership" on the home page. > > Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:aquaticlife-digest%40yahoogroups.com> to receive the digest, > which includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email > > Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:aquaticlife-nomail%40yahoogroups.com> for the No E-Mail option > where you will still be able to read messages on the group and post > replies. > > Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:aquaticlife-normal%40yahoogroups.com> to receive individual > e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 41454	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 6/26/2009
Subject: Re: 55 gallon community tank

I just did my baseline tests, initial tests had my pH at 6.5-6.6 and GH was approx 100ppm , and KH was 18ppm or less (1 drop). pH rose to 6.8 after 24 and 48 hours, GH lowered to 38ppm after 48 hours and KH remained the same the whole time. As you can see I have a little GH in my tap water, but hardly any KH at all, so I'm trying to remedy this and get my tanks at a more reasonable KH and GH level without having to dose the tank every day. Let's put it this way, if I had to take daily meds to stay alive, I'd probably forget and die... now lets not put someone in charge of daily dosing on a tank that's very important for the health of the fish ;) LOL. Amber bill 1433 wrote: > > > Amber!!! Sorry! I forgot something, > > As Len just mentioned GH and KH in your tap water is very important to > all of this. > > If you will remember back some time ago I went through all of this BUT, > I had no GH or KH at all, natural spring, well water here. BUT I also > have an extremely > low pH, 5.5 to 5.7 naturally. > > All of this has a direct bearing on all tests. You must know for sure > your starting or baseline readings for pH, GH and KH. > > The amount of your starting readings will greatly affect the over-all > speed which any buffer or agent like the Oyster Flour, crushed coral > will work. Mine was very fast because of the well waters low pH. > Yours may not be. Also please remember that I had no GH or KH to > start with. This was my whole point in playing in the water. With a > measurable amount of GH and KH I hoped to achieve a buffer to guard > against pH spikes and drops.. > > Bill > > --- On Fri, 6/26/09, bill 1433 <warrenprint@... > <mailto:warrenprint%40yahoo.com>> wrote: > > > From: bill 1433 <warrenprint@... <mailto:warrenprint%40yahoo.com>> > > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] 55 gallon community tank > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > Date: Friday, June 26, 2009, 9:30 AM > > > > Hi Amber, > > > > I am still trying to figure out exactly what your trying to > > do here. Sorry I lost your original post. But may I offer > > some food for thought? > > > > First, here is a link and picture of the Oyster Shell Flour > > and its manufacture: > > > > http://www.downtoearthdistributors.com/oystershell.html > <http://www.downtoearthdistributors.com/oystershell.html> > > > > Next, I am reading in the postings this morning that your > > adding "hand fulls" of coral to the tank? > > If you go to far (and I did, so I know) its the devil to > > get it back out. Use some type of bag for control. > > > > And finally, on the bag itself, you can get a regular one > > for this purpose at Dr's. here: > > > http://pet-supplies.drsfostersmith.com/search?af=type%3Aproduct&cartcount=0&wishcount=0&subtotal=0.00&w=mesh+bag&asug=mesh > <http://pet-supplies.drsfostersmith.com/search?af=type%3Aproduct&cartcount=0&wishcount=0&subtotal=0.00&w=mesh+bag&asug=mesh> > > > > Now if you are using your own, as Len mentioned, not > > Fish-Nets, use real nylons. By that I mean stockings, not > > pantyhose. Why? While I am not proficient in ladies > > wear, I am almost positive that pantyhose products contain > > Spandex? I don't think you want that chemical in your > > aquarium water as it could break down in time and who knows > > were that could lead. Stay with anything that's 100% > > nylon. > > > > "Playing in the Water" as I like to call it, is not > > advisable but it can be done. If your taking readings and > > the proper notes, over time you will develope a regular > > system and once your goals are reached you will learn how > > much water to use in your regualr water changes so as to not > > upset the balance you have acheieved. You mentioned this > > morning about having that coral from the orginal owner? > > Please tell me you "sterlized" what portions you are using > > BEFORE putting it into your aquarium? > > > > Bill > > > > --- On Fri, 6/26/09, Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@... > <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com>> > > wrote: > > > > > > From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@... > <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com>> > > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] 55 gallon community tank > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > Date: Friday, June 26, 2009, 4:59 AM > > > > > > I've never seen a good article on the proper use of crushed > > coral. I think > > there are so many variables that it's hard to know > > precisely how much to > > use. It's probably something someone with multiple tanks > > could do and keep > > accurate records over the course of several months and then > > come up with > > some kind of formula, then publish the formula to get more > > people trying it > > and reporting back with their results to make sure the > > formula works for the > > masses. > > > > The problems that I see is that the more acidic the water, > > the faster the > > coral would be dissolve BUT if the water is acidic and has > > a high GH and low > > KH, then the calcium side of the coral would not dissolve > > as fast. If the > > water is acidic and has a high KH and low GH, then the > > carbonate side would > > not dissolve as fast. If the water is not acidic, then > > the coral would > > dissolve much slower. Of course, the flow rate of the > > water through the > > filter also has some factor in the dissolve rate. I'm not > > sure how these > > variables would affect how much should be used. I'm > > guessing there would > > have to be a baseline established at 7.0 pH with moderate > > GH and KH levels > > and then work up and down from there. One figure I've > > seen posted in forums > > before was 1kg per 40 liters of water, when used as in the > > substrate. That > > would translate to around 2 pounds per 10G of water. > > Obviously, not > > something you could fit in a filter system. That's the > > other problem for > > many folks. While folks with BIG canister filters could > > use the crushed > > coral in a filter media bag in their filter reservoir, this > > isn't possible > > with most of the smaller HOB's. > > > > I think it really comes down to each fishkeeper coming up > > with their own > > "system" of how to use crushed coral or cuttlebone. > > That's the good thing > > about using things like Baking Soda and Oyster Flour... > > they can be > > precisely measured, dosed and measured with test kits to > > see that they are > > doing what they are supposed to be doing. > > > > Of course, when things get too complicated... keep fish > > that like your > > source water in the first place. Of course, when one > > wants to have a > > heavily planted tank and/or keep fish that do not do well > > with their > > baseline water, then these other measures become > > necessary. > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed > > on the right > > side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives > > by Year, Month) > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] > > On > > Behalf Of Amber Berglund > > Sent: Friday, June 26, 2009 12:44 AM > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] 55 gallon community tank > > > > most of the crushed coral is sold live, they're getting it > > somewhere, > > hmmm... wonder where? ;) Should I wait to add any more of > > the crushed coral? > > I'm not sure how fast it would normally affect the GH or > > KH. > > > > Amber > > > > Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > > > > > > > > > OOHHHH.. so now we have a conspiracy of reef > > destroyers. LOL > > > > > > I wonder where they get the "crushed coral" that is > > sold? I see that > > > the CaribSea brand is called Florida Crushed Coral. > > With the > > > protection that most places give to their coral reefs, > > you would think > > > that selling crushed coral would be a no-no. Florida > > even has a > > > section of their Dept. Of Environmental Protection > > website talking > > > about saving their reefs. > > > http://www.dep.state.fl.us/coastal/programs/coral/maritime.htm > <http://www.dep.state.fl.us/coastal/programs/coral/maritime.htm> > > > <http://www.dep.state.fl.us/coastal/programs/coral/maritime.htm > <http://www.dep.state.fl.us/coastal/programs/coral/maritime.htm>> > > > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>> (Links > > to any articles referenced in > > > above reply are listed on the right side, > > alphabetically under Labels > > > and also under Archives by Year, Month) > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On > > Behalf Of Amber Berglund > > > Sent: Thursday, June 25, 2009 11:17 PM > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] 55 gallon community tank > > > > > > I didn't destroy anything, it was given to me by the > > previous owner of > > > the > > > 125 gallon tank, she was going to throw it away so I > > said i would take > > > it off of her hands, figured it may come in handy some > > day ;) > > > > > > Amber > > > > > > Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > Calcium would affect GH. > > > > > > > > I'm not going to ask which reef you destroyed for > > that garbage can > > > > full of crushed coral.... and hopefully the > > reef-huggers aren't > > > > reading this thread. > > > > > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>> > > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>>> > > > (Links to any articles referenced in > > > > above reply are listed on the right side, > > alphabetically under > > > > Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) > > > > > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On > > Behalf Of Amber Berglund > > > > Sent: Thursday, June 25, 2009 10:58 PM > > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] 55 gallon community > > tank > > > > > > > > I have a garbage can full of crushed coral ;) > > LOL. > > > > That's going to last me awhile for now, and it's > > free. > > > > I will figure out something different when I run > > low on the crushed > > > > coral ;) > > > > > > > > Also no one answered my question about calcium > > chloride, what does > > > > it affect? GH or KH? I bought it for when I have > > the snails, wanted > > > > to have calcium on hand. > > > > > > > > Amber > > > > > > > > Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > OK. If the crushed coral is raising it up > > from the 33ppm range to > > > > > the 75ppm range, then you are probably going > > to be OK. > > > > > > > > > > Crushed coral can/should raise both since > > crushed coral is > > > > > supposed to be calcium carbonate also. > > > > > > > > > > Here's a snip from my calculations post in > > the Ponds-Koi forum. Of > > > > > course, this snip is dealing with something > > like Oyster Flour > > > > > which is immediately dissolvable in the > > water column, not > > > > > something you have to wait to break down > > like crushed coral. The > > > > > Carbonate could be dissolving so slowly that > > your tank's ecology > > > > > is using it up faster or as fast as it is > > being released. > > > > > > > > > > > > "...Two teaspoons (about 4 grams) > > of calcium carbonate > > > > > > > (CaCO3) per 50 liters of water > > will increase both KH and GH by > > > > > > > 4 degrees..." from > http://www.thekrib.com/Plants/CO2/khgh.html > <http://www.thekrib.com/Plants/CO2/khgh.html> > > > <http://www.thekrib.com/Plants/CO2/khgh.html > <http://www.thekrib.com/Plants/CO2/khgh.html>> > > > > <http://www.thekrib.com/Plants/CO2/khgh.html > <http://www.thekrib.com/Plants/CO2/khgh.html> > > > <http://www.thekrib.com/Plants/CO2/khgh.html > <http://www.thekrib.com/Plants/CO2/khgh.html>>> > > > > > <http://www.thekrib.com/Plants/CO2/khgh.html > <http://www.thekrib.com/Plants/CO2/khgh.html> > > > <http://www.thekrib.com/Plants/CO2/khgh.html > <http://www.thekrib.com/Plants/CO2/khgh.html>> > > > > <http://www.thekrib.com/Plants/CO2/khgh.html > <http://www.thekrib.com/Plants/CO2/khgh.html> > > > <http://www.thekrib.com/Plants/CO2/khgh.html > <http://www.thekrib.com/Plants/CO2/khgh.html>>>> > > and since > > > > > > > raising it 4 degrees is kind of > > where we want to raise it > > > > > > > since it has > > > > > > > 1 degree already, it's just a > > matter of doing a little more math. > > > > > > > > > > > > > ------------------------------------ > > > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when > > replying, Thank You. > > ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> > > ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> > > PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is > > NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of > > the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new > > subject (was re: old subject)" <- > > <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. > > , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. > > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. > > > > If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of > > unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by > > clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the home page. > > > > Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:aquaticlife-digest%40yahoogroups.com> > > to receive the digest, which includes up to 25 posts at a > > time in a single email > > > > Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:aquaticlife-nomail%40yahoogroups.com> > > for the No E-Mail option where you will still be able to > > read messages on the group and post replies. > > > > Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:aquaticlife-normal%40yahoogroups.com> > > to receive individual e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ------------------------------------ > > > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when > > replying, Thank You. > > ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> > > ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> > > PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is > > NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of > > the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new > > subject (was re: old subject)" <- > > <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. > > , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. > > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. > > > > If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of > > unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by > > clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the home page. > > > > Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:aquaticlife-digest%40yahoogroups.com> > > to receive the digest, which includes up to 25 posts at a > > time in a single email > > > > Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:aquaticlife-nomail%40yahoogroups.com> > > for the No E-Mail option where you will still be able to > > read messages on the group and post replies. > > > > Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:aquaticlife-normal%40yahoogroups.com> > > to receive individual e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > mailto:AquaticLife-fullfeatured@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife-fullfeatured%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 41455	From: Joellen & Kevin Analla	Date: 6/26/2009
Subject: Re: Angels Please help???

Well i just got done testing my water and amoniais still at 1.0, should i go buy an amonia tablet that removes amonia? the 2 angels are still alive and eating and appear to look healthy still waiting tho. Ph is still low at 6.6 and nitrite is good. ...Jo --- On Fri, 6/26/09, Raymond Wetzel <sevenspringss@...> wrote: From: Raymond Wetzel <sevenspringss@...> Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Angels Please help??? To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Date: Friday, June 26, 2009, 10:52 AM I meant to add something to this, but sent it before I thought of completing it. Anyway, in short -- it appeared as though you had a mini-cycle (like your tank was not properly cycled at the time to be able to handle the ammonia). Now, as for water changes, while it's alway best to keep your ammonia at a minimum, you don't want to remove it all physically before your ammonia-converting bacteria have had a chance to utilize it to build up their population to a proper level -- to re-cycle your tank. Then too, I don't know the pH of your tap water and how much each PWC will affect your present pH reading. As I've stated before, your fish are safe with a 1.0 ppm level of total Ammonia at a pH of 6.6. It would take quite a bit of PWCing to change your pH drastically enough so that this Ammonia would be toxic to your fish, even if your tap water were at pH 7.8. You should know though, that besides the pH affecting the toxicity of Ammonia, the temperature also plays a role in it. At 68 o, this level (1.0 ppm) of total ammonia does not become toxic until the pH falls to 7.7. At 74 o, a pH of 7.6 is required to make the Ammonia toxic (creating/convertin g enough free-Ammonia from the Ammonium) and at a temperature of 80 o, this same level of Ammonia will become toxic at pH 7.5. It will not be lethal though, until the temperature gets to 85 o at pH 7.6. This is on average as each species is affected a bit differently by Ammonia, some being a bit more intolerant than others, but it's sufficiently in the ball park. Ray --- In AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com, Joellen & Kevin Analla <anallafamily. 2001@...> wrote: > > Well as I know there is no exact amount of time for a tank to cycle it has been set up for at least 2 mo. and before I put angels in it I tested ammonia and it was ok. The ammonia levels have raised only since the fish have been dieing. Well yesterday I did a partial water change to try and lower ammonia levels. I have yet to test it this morning to see if it helped. Jo > > --- On Thu, 6/25/09, Raymond Wetzel <sevenspringss@ ...> wrote: > > > From: Raymond Wetzel <sevenspringss@ ...> > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Angels Please help??? > To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com > Date: Thursday, June 25, 2009, 9:59 AM > > > > > > > > > Hi Amber, Going with everything I read of Jo's postings on the scenario of this whole situation, yes, I can only conclude with a good deal of certainty that here fish are dying as a result of this infection. This terrible disease was prevalent some 15 to 20 years ago, first eminating, then spreading friom the Far East. While I've lived through this period and have experienced this whole sequence of events day to day of the hobby being so adversely affected by this disease, this is not my reason for my coming to this conclusion. Devastating as it was, I am not an alarmist. > > Others here, who may never have heard of this disease (or who may have, but think this is now past history), cannot know that this disease still survives today in Angelfish from Angelfish stocks still being produced in those areas (Asia & Florida) where the disease originated and then was most prevalent. This disease was never conquered. The Far Eastern Angelfish breeders were never completely wiped out (even though extremely affected by hugh losses) to the point that they started back completely fresh with completely all new stock. The Angelfish stock that they were left with, that finally survived the onslaught due to their immunity system finally coping with this disease is the same stock they continued with -- now a necessarily stronger breeder stock for them and the Florida fish farmers, in that they have a higher immune system to be able to deal with this virus that co-exists with them in their systems. > > However, even though the juveniles from this stock (possibly the 4th or 5th generation by now, from when this first started) are expose to this virus early on in their lives -- their immune systems having to have built up against this disease as they grew to selling size -- the stress of shipping when combined with the constant battle of their immune systems having to deal with this ever-present virus in their systems (due to its ongoing presence in their environment) is just too much for them to endure. The influences of both stresses soon take their toll, manifested as losses within 6 or 7 days for most of the stock that were subjected to the stress of shipping. Any other Angels that seemingly were not quite as affected/stressed by shipping immediately may live a short while later, but by this time the virus is now overpowering their immune system to the point of eventually (often within the month) killing them. Obviously, introducing any Angels in > with these infected fish during this time of them living in limbo is to be subjecting these new Angels to a disease they've never seen and have no defence at all for, with the inevitable loss of them as well. The infected environment is just as deadly to any new Angels, even without the presence of infected fish, until this environment is disinfected. This disease still persists today -- it has never been irradiacated and is an unfortunate situation for an unsuspecting hobbyist who has no previous knowledge of it, when they buy such fish from those sources (like Walmart) which persist in selling them only because these fish are the lowest price their management can find to contract with. It's a very dangerous situation. > > Now, getting back to these other points you've brought up, which need addressing. While, as \\Steve// says, ideally no ammonia should be permitted to exist, and while Jo's ammonia level of 1.0 ppm does certainly appear to be the direct result of an uncycled tank (since ammonia has shown to build up in her tank from 0.0 ppm to 1.0 ppm, yet is not being converted to nitrite) still, with Jo's ph at between 6.5 (original post) and 6.6 (follow-up post) any and all Ammonia would be in the form or relatively harmless Ammonium -- not affecting the Angelfish detrimentally in the least -- so we can rule this out, if that's what you need done. I cannot condone the use of buffers to lower the pH either, and again go right along with \\Steve// on this. Not only as it's not at all needed (especially in this situation of maintaining Angelfish) but can lead to serious consequences such as unstable pH levels and/or even possible pH crashes as \\Steve// points out. > > Still, I see no evidence of Jo having to add any additional amounts of pH buffer between PWC's because of the buffer being exhausted, nor have I seen any high pH level readings, although there still may have been some between PWC's, which may not have been tested for. Likewise, I have fortunately not seen evidence of a pH crash, nor any possible cause for pH shock as a result of such a crash. Jo's methods of acclimating may leave more to be desired even though the concept is correct as, unless she has not given a full description, this tank water introduction to the bucket containing the fish does seem to be too abbreviated. Full acclimation requires more than one or two cups of new water over a period of 15 minutes (as I seem to perceive from her post), but it's possible she may just not have gone into the repetition of this procedure. > > In all, with taking into consideration all possible negative points you've brought up and needed to have addressed, or that \\Steve// or I could think of to be ruled out, I cannot see where any of these other possibilities could enter into consideration -- especially when realizing that these deaths were not a one-time occurance, but have repeatedly happened with each numerous addition of new Angelfish in the many attempts to introduce them to her tank. One might be able to say that in isolated incidences, that a certain batch of Angelfish may have been pH-shocked, or that another batch of Angelfish may have been inadvertantly subjected to lethal levels of ammonia at some point -- which appears quite remote, even if I'm reaching for straws -- but when repeated batches of Angelfish die for no other apparent reason there is a pattern that develops which to me has no other answer than this Virus by what is occurring -- when looking at all other details > involved in this picture. I've seen it too many times to not ignore it, nor mistake it for anything else. Ray > > --- In AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com, Amber Berglund <amber@> wrote: > > > > Ray are you sure that his fish are dying to this infection rather than > > dying from ammonia poisoning from an uncycled tank? Not to mention he > > used a pH adjusting buffer to lower his pH... > > This might just be a lack of experience too I would think it's possible > > at least. We should at least rule those out before rushing into thinking > > it's a serious problem right from the bat (the Angelfish infection). > > > > Amber > > > > Raymond Wetzel wrote: > > > > > > > > > By your post, it appears that you've taken the time to read over my > > > message on the topic, so you could finally understand it -- which I > > > appreciate your doing, as it will only benefit yourself. Your two > > > remaining Angelfish stand a better chance of dying a premature death, > > > and that death may come even sooner than later. I have seen other > > > hobbyists maintaining a few remnant Angels from such origins after the > > > rest of the original stocks of them had perished, only to pass on > > > within the following month (or two, at the latest). You may try to > > > return these two Angels for store credit, if they'll allow it, but > > > otherwise, you'd need to keep only these two until something happens > > > to them. > > > > > > To add any Angelfish from other sources to these two Angelfish, would > > > be to subject them to an infection that they have no immunity for, > > > with the inevitable results of their dying from this, and quite fast. > > > If you want more Angels, and if you want healthy Angels, there is no > > > other choice than to put them in a clean, disinfected tank that you're > > > sure does not contain any disease -- which requires that these two > > > Angelfish no longer inhabit this tank, one way or another. > > > > > > IF there is a better way (and I know of no other way), I would be more > > > than pleased to tell you. As for knowing that a fish will be okay, I > > > can only tell you this -- that I, nor anyone else, cannot say with > > > 100% certainty that your two remaining Angelfish are not okay -- it's > > > impossible for me to be able to do that from where I am (not within > > > reach of your fish) or without the benefit of a slide smear of this > > > fish's waste to evaluate under the microscope. But ALL things you've > > > related about these fish and their deceased siblings, including their > > > source, the suddenness of their demise and the repetition of these > > > same circumstances spells out for me with enough certainty with all > > > I've experienced and learned of this very disease, that this is indeed > > > the dreaded fatal pathogen that has plagued Angelfish ongoing from a > > > quarter century ago. > > > > > > I could choose to see your Angelfish loses as just the chance results > > > of poorer than required water conditions combined with your possible > > > inexperience with them and the luck of the draw along with the > > > inevitableness of young Angels dying en-mass for unexplained reasons > > > not unrelated to your general lack of aquarium knowledge at this stage > > > of the game -- as some here may be suggesting -- but to do so would be > > > to go against everything I've learned about Angelfish in 62 years of > > > working with them, and living through the horrid period of decimation > > > of these fish through the spread of this Virus. > > > > > > I've seen many, many cases of this virus striking Angelfish and have > > > known many Angelfish breeders who were effected by the devastation of > > > it and the experiences they've gone through during the peak period > > > when this Virus was at its worst. > > > > > > AND . . . > > > > > > I have seen in TODAY's WORLD, the EXACT same thing as you are > > > describing happening to you, of Angelfish being sold by Walmart (and > > > others) which are infected by this virus and which have been dropping > > > otherwise unexplainedly like flies -- INCLUDING having one or two fish > > > temporarily survive this onslault only to died within the following > > > month. I DO NOT think this is all coincidental. My brother (who had > > > yet to learn of this disease) experienced the VERY things with young > > > Angelfish he recently bought from Walmart a couple of months ago, > > > amost word for word. In his case, his lone surviving Angel lasted > > > another 3 weeks after the first ones died -- and he knows about > > > keeping fish properly. Many of my customers (fish store owners who > > > purchase my Angelfish) have told me of the quality of Angelfish (and > > > the Virus they still carry) they've bought in the recent past from > > > both Florida and directly from the Far East that just fold up on them > > > within a week's time, often resulting in complete losses -- the > > > unaccounted for ones having already been sold prior to the end of the > > > week. These sources and the Angelfish Virus they promote through > > > selling infected fish are still notorious for spreading this disease > > > with the help of unknowing dealers and hobbyists even today. > > > > > > Of course, you do not need to believe me, but then it would be folly > > > to continue in the manner you're attempting to add Angelfish to your > > > tank in hopes they'll survive. For all we know though, without having > > > your two Angelfish analyzed, they may be the healthiest Angels on > > > earth -- But I wouldn't want to bet the farm on it! > > > > > > I suggested to you what needs to be done to succeed. You may follow > > > this advice, or you may ignore it -- that's your decision. When buying > > > from a different source, a reputable breeder who has reliably supplied > > > quality disease-free Angelfish for many years simply cannot afford to > > > risk selling diseased Angelfish, and still have his business and > > > reputation survive. IF contemplating buying from such a known and > > > reputable dealer, you need to make sure whom you are dealing with. > > > There are many reputable Angelfish breeders in existance, but with > > > your not having the experience to know which are the better ones, you > > > may not know yet who to buy from with confidence. I WILL tell you that > > > you can't expect to pay Walmart prices and still get good fish. A lot > > > of work goes into raising these Angelfish and as a result these > > > breeders will (need) to charge more, but a good breeder will be fair > > > -- he does not need to price-gouge. If you're still following up on > > > this, and need further advise, there are a number of people here who > > > can best assist you with recommending breeders of quality Angels. I > > > can start by wholeheartedly recommending Steve Rybicki of Angels Plus > > > as one whom I can vouch for selling disease-free Angelfish; Steve's > > > been in the business for at least 25 years. Ray > > > > > > --- In AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com > > > <mailto:AquaticLife %40yahoogroups. com>, Joellen & Kevin Analla > > > <anallafamily. 2001@> wrote: > > > > > > > > So basically what your saying is that all fish in tank (2Angels) > > > must die then i need to disinfect all equipment then start all over > > > buying from a different source but theres no garanteen that even a > > > differant source could still get infected in that case i would have to > > > repeat process agian......Really isnt there a better way, or even a > > > way of knowing that fish will be ok . > > > > > > > > --- On Wed, 6/24/09, Raymond Wetzel <sevenspringss@ > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > From: Raymond Wetzel <sevenspringss@ > > > > > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Angels Please help??? > > > > To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com <mailto:AquaticLife %40yahoogroups. com> > > > > Date: Wednesday, June 24, 2009, 1:33 AM > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Hello Jo, So sorry you are running into this frustrating experience > > > in trying to keep Angelfish, when the species is not difficult to > > > maintain. Ordinarily, we would ask just what you meant (and will still > > > do this) when you say that your water is all testing okay. When giving > > > us any of your data concerning your water parameters, we prefer to > > > have number to be evaluate your circumstances, and the actual test > > > results in ppm (parts per million) best reflect your actual > > > conditions. If you could give us your test results for pH, ammonia, > > > nitrite and even nitrate, it could be a great help. If you can provide > > > results for temporary hardness (KH) and total/general hardness (GH), > > > this may be of further assistance to us -- the more information, the > > > better. BUT, in this particular case, I do not believe it's your water > > > quality that's at fault, even though we need to rule that out. > > > > > > > > Most unfortunately, new prospective Angelfish hobbyists will run > > > into this situation when buying from retailers who prefer obtaining > > > their Angelfish stocks indiscriminantly, possibly in an effort to save > > > money or perhaps just for the convenience. However, in buying in > > > essence what can be established as inferior stock, I fail to see what > > > they think they gain. Unfortunately too, the customer (you) is too > > > often unsuspecting of this possibility and blame the deaths of these > > > fish on themselves, when in truth it's the poor stock itself that > > > these outlets continue to retail -- despite the many losses they > > > themselves have with each re-stocking. > > > > > > > > These retailers know that they will not be alienating their > > > customers, as these customers are completely unaware that this stock > > > is inferior, and in their quest to maintain this beautiful species, > > > they repeatedly buy new stock in hopes they can keep them alive. Some > > > of the larger chain stores (and some smaller shops) operate in this > > > manner, Walmart having been one of them until they gave up selling > > > tropical fish; these stores continuing to buy their Angels only from > > > preferred sources which may include a headquarter- -designated > > > distributor, a Florida fish farm, a local wholesaler that buys from > > > either Florida or the Far East, or a Far East breeding establishment- > > > -exporter -- rather than a reputable domestic breeder. > > > > > > > > Now, getting to the root of this practice and its problem. Going > > > back some 15 years or slightly more, there was a major outbreak of a > > > horrific Angelfish Virus disease originating in the Far East, > > > decimating Angelfish stocks there as well as in this country when it > > > was introduced here through imports of that stock into this country. > > > Many domestic Angelfish breeders in this country were wiped out or at > > > least partially effected, not suspecting this problem, and mixed that > > > stock with theirs. The problem didn't stop there in this country as a > > > good number of the Florida fish farmers also introduced this diseased > > > Asian stock of Angelfish to their hatcheries in efforts to strengthen > > > their own stocks with "new blood," not yet knowing the consequences > > > they would have to pay. > > > > > > > > Gradually, this disease was finally contained although never > > > completely cured. Those Asian stocks that survived were strengthened > > > by natural selection to be able to remain viable while still carrying > > > th Virus as a latent disease always present but under control of these > > > latest Angelfish's adapted immune systems. This same adaptation of the > > > Angelfish's immune system to contain this Virus as of late, also > > > emerged from those Florida fish farm's stocks which were similarly > > > effected. > > > > > > > > As a result, most any Angelfish derived today from either those > > > effected Florida fish farms or those Far Eastern hatchery/exporters > > > carry this Virus as a weaker (as controlled now by these Angels' new > > > but limited immunity), yet still viable disease still capable of > > > overtaking the Angelfish as soon as receieves enough stress. This > > > shared (but not mutually beneficial where the fish is concerned) > > > existance is called "symbiosis," and is seen also in many Cichlids -- > > > including Angelfish -- as Hexamita, where this protozoan resides in a > > > latent condition in the fish's intestine, only to overtake the fish > > > when the fish experiences sufficient stress for it to do so. > > > > > > > > So, now when these Angelfish (carrying this disease) reach your > > > local fish store, they look fine at first and appear most healthy. > > > However, the stress of shipping soon takes its toll over the next week > > > as the disease now devastates these stressed and weakened fish. These > > > fish are not expected to last much more than an average of 6 or 7 days > > > as a result of what happens with them. Likewise, many (most?) of the > > > same fish in these stores that stock them soon die also (they are > > > KNOWN to fold up), but the storekeeper has still made his profit and > > > has "satisfied" his customers, which causes them to keep coming back > > > to those stores. > > > > > > > > If any of this rings a bell for you, you may finally be > > > understanding what's happening with your Angelfish. A few, such as the > > > two you have that survived so far will live for an undetermined period > > > of time, but their days are still numbered (could live for another few > > > weeks or so). If you still want to keep Angelfish, you cannot continue > > > to buy them from this present source as they'll meet the same fate, > > > nor can you add any other Angelfish to this tank from a different > > > source as they'll become infected. I really hate to have to suggest > > > this, and I don't know if you have any other species of fish presently > > > in this tank, but before you add any more Angels -- and they MUST be > > > from a reputable domestic breeder -- this tank and all its equipment > > > must be disinfected after these two remaining Angels secumb. I hope > > > this whole scenario of events as pertains to Angelfish has been at > > > least enlightening for you, and will serve to assist you in the future > > > (we'll > > > > still be here to help). I regret that since you most probably have > > > introduced disease-carrying Angelfish unknowingly, that you'll have a > > > long road ahead of you in maintaining your goal, but at least now you > > > know what to expect. Please keep us posted, Ray > > > > > > > > --- In AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com, "anallafamily. 2001" > > > <anallafamily. 2001@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > I'm new to the group so just let me know if I say or do something > > > not right...... > > > > > My Question.... I wanted to start up an angel tank so I have a > > > 55gal set up.. I keep buying 5 angels at a time and they keep dying > > > slowly but surely.. I think altogether I have bought 16 Angels and I > > > have managed to get 2 to live for at least 6 days now. I have plenty > > > of filtration and water flow, I have ph at 6.5 and water is all > > > testing ok... So what am I doing wrong? and should I go get more since > > > I got 2 to live uhhhhhh What do I do I feel like I want to give up but > > > I really thought they were such a beautiful fish. > > > > > Please Help Jo.. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 41456	From: bill 1433	Date: 6/26/2009
Subject: Re: 55 gallon community tank

Ok, I think I understand a little of where you are coming from now. I can tell you that after all of the note-taking and carrying on I scraped everything and simply put a cuttle bone in each power filter basket now and that's it.   For my acid water conditions the coral did not re-act as I thought it would and was still hard to control and in the end--------I was living with that Test Kit.  How bad was it?  At one point, my wife who only looks at the "pretty fish" said to me,"You better add some water to the tank for all the testing your doing, the water levels down"!  It was then that I realized fully just what I was doing.   The senior members of the group know what they are talking about when they say "Don't play in the water"!  The cuttle bone affords just enough GH and KH stability to allow a sort of pH buffering and I control near all of it by simply adjusting the amount of water that I change and when.  Instead of a regular 25% weekly change I only do 3 gallons in each tank, 29 and 20 long and I do those on Monday and Fridays.  This gives enough water change and gravel vaccumming without throwing anything out of balance.   In the end of all of this you will find, as I did, that water parameters are extremely diffiuclt to not only control but manitain as well.  Also much can be said for the equipment used.  Just how really accurate are these testing kits?  What are their degrees of variation?  And the most important part, Is all of this really worth the effort?   All of these things are done as a routine and done daily with ease!  How?  Where?   Why, Seaworld of course!  BUT----------------------------not one of those folks is using an API test kit!  Think about it!  Relax, and take some time to view and enjoy your fish!  After all, thats what got you into the hobby in the first place, isn't it?   Old, Wiser and most definately drier! Bill --- On Fri, 6/26/09, Amber Berglund <amber@...> wrote: > From: Amber Berglund <amber@...> > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] 55 gallon community tank > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Date: Friday, June 26, 2009, 11:04 AM > I just did my baseline tests, initial > tests had my pH at 6.5-6.6 and GH > was approx 100ppm , and KH was 18ppm or less (1 drop). > pH rose to 6.8 after 24 and 48 hours, GH lowered to 38ppm > after 48 hours > and KH remained the same the whole time. > As you can see I have a little GH in my tap water, but > hardly any KH at > all, so I'm trying to remedy this and get my tanks at a > more reasonable > KH and GH level without having to dose the tank every day. > Let's put it this way, if I had to take daily meds to stay > alive, I'd > probably forget and die... now lets not put someone in > charge of daily > dosing on a tank that's very important for the health of > the fish ;) LOL. > > > Amber > > bill 1433 wrote: > > > > > > Amber!!!  Sorry!  I forgot something, > >  > > As Len just mentioned GH and KH in your tap water is > very important to > > all of this. > >  > > If you will remember back some time ago I went through > all of this BUT, > > I had no GH or KH at all, natural spring, well water > here.  BUT I also > > have an extremely > > low pH, 5.5 to 5.7 naturally. > >  > > All of this has a direct bearing on all tests.  > You must know for sure > > your starting or baseline readings for pH, GH and KH. > > >  > > The amount of your starting readings will greatly > affect the over-all > > speed which any buffer or agent like the Oyster Flour, > crushed coral > > will work.  Mine was very fast because of the > well waters low pH.  > > Yours may not be.  Also please remember that I > had no GH or KH to > > start with.  This was my whole point in playing > in the water.  With a > > measurable amount of GH and KH I hoped to achieve a > buffer to guard > > against pH spikes and drops.. > >  > > Bill > > > > --- On Fri, 6/26/09, bill 1433 <warrenprint@... > > > <mailto:warrenprint%40yahoo.com>> wrote: > > > > > From: bill 1433 <warrenprint@... > <mailto:warrenprint%40yahoo.com>> > > > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] 55 gallon community > tank > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > Date: Friday, June 26, 2009, 9:30 AM > > > > > > Hi Amber, > > >  > > > I am still trying to figure out exactly what your > trying to > > > do here.  Sorry I lost your original post. > But may I offer > > > some food for thought? > > >  > > > First, here is a link and picture of the Oyster > Shell Flour > > > and its manufacture: > > >  > > > http://www.downtoearthdistributors.com/oystershell.html > > > <http://www.downtoearthdistributors.com/oystershell.html> > > >  > > > Next, I am reading in the postings this morning > that your > > > adding "hand fulls" of coral to the tank? > > > If you go to far (and I did, so I know) its the > devil to > > > get it back out.  Use some type of bag for > control. > > >  > > > And finally, on the bag itself, you can get a > regular one > > > for this purpose at Dr's. here: > > > > > http://pet-supplies.drsfostersmith.com/search?af=type%3Aproduct&cartcount=0&wishcount=0&subtotal=0.00&w=mesh+bag&asug=mesh > > > <http://pet-supplies.drsfostersmith.com/search?af=type%3Aproduct&cartcount=0&wishcount=0&subtotal=0.00&w=mesh+bag&asug=mesh> > > >  > > > Now if you are using your own, as Len mentioned, > not > > > Fish-Nets, use real nylons.  By that I mean > stockings, not > > > pantyhose.  Why?  While I am not > proficient in ladies > > > wear, I am almost positive that pantyhose > products contain > > > Spandex?  I don't think you want that > chemical in your > > > aquarium water as it could break down in time and > who knows > > > were that could lead.  Stay with anything > that's 100% > > > nylon. > > >  > > > "Playing in the Water" as I like to call it, is > not > > > advisable but it can be done.  If your > taking readings and > > > the proper notes, over time you will develope a > regular > > > system and once your goals are reached you will > learn how > > > much water to use in your regualr water changes > so as to not > > > upset the balance you have acheieved.  You > mentioned this > > > morning about having that coral from the orginal > owner? > > > Please tell me you "sterlized" what portions you > are using > > > BEFORE putting it into your aquarium? > > >  > > > Bill > > > > > > --- On Fri, 6/26/09, Lenny V. aka GoldLenny > <GoldLenny@... > > > <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com>> > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@... > > > <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com>> > > > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] 55 gallon community > tank > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > Date: Friday, June 26, 2009, 4:59 AM > > > > > > > > > I've never seen a good article on the proper use > of crushed > > > coral.  I think > > > there are so many variables that it's hard to > know > > > precisely how much to > > > use.  It's probably something someone with > multiple tanks > > > could do and keep > > > accurate records over the course of several > months and then > > > come up with > > > some kind of formula, then publish the formula to > get more > > > people trying it > > > and reporting back with their results to make > sure the > > > formula works for the > > > masses. > > > > > > The problems that I see is that the more acidic > the water, > > > the faster the > > > coral would be dissolve BUT if the water is > acidic and has > > > a high GH and low > > > KH, then the calcium side of the coral would not > dissolve > > > as fast.  If the > > > water is acidic and has a high KH and low GH, > then the > > > carbonate side would > > > not dissolve as fast.  If the water is not > acidic, then > > > the coral would > > > dissolve much slower.  Of course, the flow > rate of the > > > water through the > > > filter also has some factor in the dissolve > rate.  I'm not > > > sure how these > > > variables would affect how much should be > used.  I'm > > > guessing there would > > > have to be a baseline established at 7.0 pH with > moderate > > > GH and KH levels > > > and then work up and down from there.  One > figure I've > > > seen posted in forums > > > before was 1kg per 40 liters of water, when used > as in the > > > substrate.  That > > > would translate to around 2 pounds per 10G of > water. > > > Obviously, not > > > something you could fit in a filter system.  > That's the > > > other problem for > > > many folks.  While folks with BIG canister > filters could > > > use the crushed > > > coral in a filter media bag in their filter > reservoir, this > > > isn't possible > > > with most of the smaller HOB's. > > > > > > I think it really comes down to each fishkeeper > coming up > > > with their own > > > "system" of how to use crushed coral or > cuttlebone. > > > That's the good thing > > > about using things like Baking Soda and Oyster > Flour... > > > they can be > > > precisely measured, dosed and measured with test > kits to > > > see that they are > > > doing what they are supposed to be doing. > > > > > > Of course, when things get too complicated... > keep fish > > > that like your > > > source water in the first place.  Of course, > when one > > > wants to have a > > > heavily planted tank and/or keep fish that do not > do well > > > with their > > > baseline water, then these other measures become > > > necessary. > > > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > (Links to any articles referenced in above reply > are listed > > > on the right > > > side, alphabetically under Labels and also under > Archives > > > by Year, Month) > > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] > > > On > > > Behalf Of Amber Berglund > > > Sent: Friday, June 26, 2009 12:44 AM > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] 55 gallon community > tank > > > > > > most of the crushed coral is sold live, they're > getting it > > > somewhere, > > > hmmm... wonder where? ;) Should I wait to add any > more of > > > the crushed coral? > > > I'm not sure how fast it would normally affect > the GH or > > > KH. > > > > > > Amber > > > > > > Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > OOHHHH.. so now we have a conspiracy of > reef > > > destroyers. LOL > > > > > > > > I wonder where they get the "crushed coral" > that is > > > sold? I see that > > > > the CaribSea brand is called Florida Crushed > Coral. > > > With the > > > > protection that most places give to their > coral reefs, > > > you would think > > > > that selling crushed coral would be a no-no. > Florida > > > even has a > > > > section of their Dept. Of Environmental > Protection > > > website talking > > > > about saving their reefs. > > > > http://www.dep.state.fl.us/coastal/programs/coral/maritime.htm > > > <http://www.dep.state.fl.us/coastal/programs/coral/maritime.htm> > > > > <http://www.dep.state.fl.us/coastal/programs/coral/maritime.htm > > > <http://www.dep.state.fl.us/coastal/programs/coral/maritime.htm>> > > > > > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>> (Links > > > to any articles referenced in > > > > above reply are listed on the right side, > > > alphabetically under Labels > > > > and also under Archives by Year, Month) > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On > > > Behalf Of Amber Berglund > > > > Sent: Thursday, June 25, 2009 11:17 PM > > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] 55 gallon > community tank > > > > > > > > I didn't destroy anything, it was given to > me by the > > > previous owner of > > > > the > > > > 125 gallon tank, she was going to throw it > away so I > > > said i would take > > > > it off of her hands, figured it may come in > handy some > > > day ;) > > > > > > > > Amber > > > > > > > > Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Calcium would affect GH. > > > > > > > > > > I'm not going to ask which reef you > destroyed for > > > that garbage can > > > > > full of crushed coral.... and hopefully > the > > > reef-huggers aren't > > > > > reading this thread. > > > > > > > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > > > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>> > > > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>>> > > > > (Links to any articles referenced in > > > > > above reply are listed on the right > side, > > > alphabetically under > > > > > Labels and also under Archives by Year, > Month) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On > > > Behalf Of Amber Berglund > > > > > Sent: Thursday, June 25, 2009 10:58 PM > > > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] 55 gallon > community > > > tank > > > > > > > > > > I have a garbage can full of crushed > coral ;) > > > LOL. > > > > > That's going to last me awhile for now, > and it's > > > free. > > > > > I will figure out something different > when I run > > > low on the crushed > > > > > coral ;) > > > > > > > > > > Also no one answered my question about > calcium > > > chloride, what does > > > > > it affect? GH or KH? I bought it for > when I have > > > the snails, wanted > > > > > to have calcium on hand. > > > > > > > > > > Amber > > > > > > > > > > Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > OK. If the crushed coral is > raising it up > > > from the 33ppm range to > > > > > > the 75ppm range, then you are > probably going > > > to be OK. > > > > > > > > > > > > Crushed coral can/should raise > both since > > > crushed coral is > > > > > > supposed to be calcium carbonate > also. > > > > > > > > > > > > Here's a snip from my calculations > post in > > > the Ponds-Koi forum. Of > > > > > > course, this snip is dealing with > something > > > like Oyster Flour > > > > > > which is immediately dissolvable > in the > > > water column, not > > > > > > something you have to wait to > break down > > > like crushed coral. The > > > > > > Carbonate could be dissolving so > slowly that > > > your tank's ecology > > > > > > is using it up faster or as fast > as it is > > > being released. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > "...Two teaspoons (about > 4 grams) > > > of calcium carbonate > > > > > > > > (CaCO3) per 50 liters of > water > > > will increase both KH and GH by > > > > > > > > 4 degrees..." from > > http://www.thekrib.com/Plants/CO2/khgh.html > > <http://www.thekrib.com/Plants/CO2/khgh.html> > > > > <http://www.thekrib.com/Plants/CO2/khgh.html > > <http://www.thekrib.com/Plants/CO2/khgh.html>> > > > > > <http://www.thekrib.com/Plants/CO2/khgh.html > > <http://www.thekrib.com/Plants/CO2/khgh.html> > > > > <http://www.thekrib.com/Plants/CO2/khgh.html > > <http://www.thekrib.com/Plants/CO2/khgh.html>>> > > > > > > <http://www.thekrib.com/Plants/CO2/khgh.html > > <http://www.thekrib.com/Plants/CO2/khgh.html> > > > > <http://www.thekrib.com/Plants/CO2/khgh.html > > <http://www.thekrib.com/Plants/CO2/khgh.html>> > > > > > <http://www.thekrib.com/Plants/CO2/khgh.html > > <http://www.thekrib.com/Plants/CO2/khgh.html> > > > > <http://www.thekrib.com/Plants/CO2/khgh.html > > <http://www.thekrib.com/Plants/CO2/khgh.html>>>> > > > and since > > > > > > > > raising it 4 degrees is > kind of > > > where we want to raise it > > > > > > > > since it has > > > > > > > > 1 degree already, it's > just a > > > matter of doing a little more math. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ------------------------------------ > > > > > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it > when > > > replying, Thank You. > > > > ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> > > > ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , > .·´¯`·..><((((º> > > > PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT > that is > > > NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the > TOPIC of > > > the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE > -> i.e. "new > > > subject (was re: old subject)" <- > > > > <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. > > > , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. > > > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this > matter. > > > > > > If you do not want all of the groups emails, > instead of > > > unsubscribing, you can change your delivery > option by > > > clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the home > page. > > > > > > Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com > > > <mailto:aquaticlife-digest%40yahoogroups.com> > > > to receive the digest, which includes up to 25 > posts at a > > > time in a single email > > > > > > Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com > > > <mailto:aquaticlife-nomail%40yahoogroups.com> > > > for the No E-Mail option where you will still be > able to > > > read messages on the group and post replies. > > > > > > Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com > > > <mailto:aquaticlife-normal%40yahoogroups.com> > > > to receive individual e-mails.Yahoo! Groups > Links > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >      > > > > > > > > > > > > ------------------------------------ > > > > > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it > when > > > replying, Thank You. > > > > ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> > > > ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , > .·´¯`·..><((((º> > > > PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT > that is > > > NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the > TOPIC of > > > the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE > -> i.e. "new > > > subject (was re: old subject)" <- > > > > <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. > > > , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. > > > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this > matter. > > > > > > If you do not want all of the groups emails, > instead of > > > unsubscribing, you can change your delivery > option by > > > clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the home > page. > > > > > > Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com > > > <mailto:aquaticlife-digest%40yahoogroups.com> > > > to receive the digest, which includes up to 25 > posts at a > > > time in a single email > > > > > > Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com > > > <mailto:aquaticlife-nomail%40yahoogroups.com> > > > for the No E-Mail option where you will still be > able to > > > read messages on the group and post replies. > > > > > > Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com > > > <mailto:aquaticlife-normal%40yahoogroups.com> > > > to receive individual e-mails.Yahoo! 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Groups Links > > >     mailto:AquaticLife-fullfeatured@yahoogroups.com > > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 41457	From: mihamlett	Date: 6/26/2009
Subject: Complete 55g Reef System for Sale

Asking: $1000 OBO Up for sale is a complete 55 gallon Reef tank system. Including all the lighting, filters and other components you may need. I recently dismantled this system because I was moving and needed to downsize tanks. All components are working and in good condition. No livestock included. You must pick up, but I'll be glad to help you load. Trying to sell as a complete package first then I might decide to part it out. 1. 55G All Glass Aquarium w/ built in overflow box in the center rear of the tank. Overflow box has 1" and 3/4" drain. I built up a durso (sp?) pipe system in the overflow to quiet the noise. Two 1" Returns at the top rear corners of the tank. There is some coraline algae growth on the rear of the tank, the back has also been painted black. The tank is in good condition, no leaks. Few minor small scratches on front glass, don't really notice it when water is in the tank. 2. Stand for 55G Tank open back w/ 20 Gallon long tank as sump (Sump has no dividers inside.) 3. Mag 5 Return Pump 4. Custom Built Canopy w/ Two 175w Metal Halides and Two 46.5" VHO Bulbs and all reflectors. Canopy custom built to keep bulbs about 12" or so off the water. 5. Metal halide bulbs used for about 4 years (14,000K, don't remember brand). 175 W x 2 bulbs 6. Metal halide bulbs new, used for less than 24 hrs (10,000K but didn't like the color). 175W x 2 bulbs 7. VHO Bulbs are 20,000 Actinics, are about 4 years old but still going strong. 8. Euro-Reef RS80 Protein Skimmer w/ Pump 9. 1/4 HP Via Aqua Chiller 10. 2 Icecap 440 Ballasts (Metal Halide-175w), 1 Icecap 660 Ballast (Flourescent), 2 Icecap heatsinks, all custom mounted to board and wiring harness to the canopy that is sufficiently long enough to keep the ballasts away from the tank 11. 1 x WON Pro-Heat IC Heater 100W 11in 12. UV Sterilizer (not sure of brand right now) 13. SCWD Wavemaker (switching current, 3/4in) 14. AquaController Jr (Non backlit) + DC8 Aquarium Controller. Works great! small scratch on display. One of the DC8 outlets does not switch, always on. Standard pH + Temperature Probes 15. All necessary plumbing to hook all this up (I custom cut PVC pipe for supply and return to sump I also have these items included but they were not hooked up to the tank and are left over parts from upgrades/etc. All work fine. 1. Used CO2 cylinder, should work fine got off craigslist but never got a chance to build co2 system. 2. Several assorted powerheads including one Maxi-Jet 1200, one Rio M820, Rio 600. 3. Coralife Super Protein SKimmer 65 gallon model 4. Reeffanatic pH Calibration fluid 5. ASM Sedra 3500 Pump 6. Assorted unused sea-horse medication (Neo3 , Formalin 16oz, Methylene Blue, Triple Sulpha) 7. Lots of assorted plumbing parts 8. Various filtration media, test kit stuff, food 9. One 10 gallon and 20 gallon long tank. 10. Standard aquarium light for 20L, standard light for 10 gallon, several other lights for refugium 11. Several HOB Filters aquaclear, good for refugiums Pictures can be seen at: http://picasaweb.google.com/mattSales5713/AquariumPictures I'll try to get more up of the different parts soon. Asking $1000 OBO for everything as a set. If I'm not able to sell as a set I might just part out and sell on e-bay. Prefer local pickup. Will not ship tank, stand or canopy.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 41458	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 6/26/2009
Subject: Re: 55 gallon community tank

Amber, Daily dosing is not required for GH/KH issues. BUT... for at least one of the SeaChem products, Excel, I think daily dosing is at least suggested. If you went with the Oyster Flour, you would only have to daily dose for the first week or so to bring the GH/KH levels up to where you want them. After that, you would just dose the water you are putting back into the tank after your weekly tank maintenance. Yes, using something like the crushed coral or cuttlebone means that you would only have to fill a filter media bag and stick that in your filter reservoir. Then check it on a weekly basis and top off the bag whenever it starts to get low due to the media dissolving. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Amber Berglund Sent: Friday, June 26, 2009 10:05 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] 55 gallon community tank I just did my baseline tests, initial tests had my pH at 6.5-6.6 and GH was approx 100ppm , and KH was 18ppm or less (1 drop). pH rose to 6.8 after 24 and 48 hours, GH lowered to 38ppm after 48 hours and KH remained the same the whole time. As you can see I have a little GH in my tap water, but hardly any KH at all, so I'm trying to remedy this and get my tanks at a more reasonable KH and GH level without having to dose the tank every day. Let's put it this way, if I had to take daily meds to stay alive, I'd probably forget and die... now lets not put someone in charge of daily dosing on a tank that's very important for the health of the fish ;) LOL. Amber bill 1433 wrote: > > > Amber!!! Sorry! I forgot something, > > As Len just mentioned GH and KH in your tap water is very important to > all of this. > > If you will remember back some time ago I went through all of this > BUT, I had no GH or KH at all, natural spring, well water here. BUT I > also have an extremely low pH, 5.5 to 5.7 naturally. > > All of this has a direct bearing on all tests. You must know for sure > your starting or baseline readings for pH, GH and KH. > > The amount of your starting readings will greatly affect the over-all > speed which any buffer or agent like the Oyster Flour, crushed coral > will work. Mine was very fast because of the well waters low pH. > Yours may not be. Also please remember that I had no GH or KH to > start with. This was my whole point in playing in the water. With a > measurable amount of GH and KH I hoped to achieve a buffer to guard > against pH spikes and drops.. > > Bill > > --- On Fri, 6/26/09, bill 1433 <warrenprint@... > <mailto:warrenprint%40yahoo.com>> wrote: > > > From: bill 1433 <warrenprint@... > > <mailto:warrenprint%40yahoo.com>> > > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] 55 gallon community tank > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > Date: Friday, June 26, 2009, 9:30 AM > > > > Hi Amber, > > > > I am still trying to figure out exactly what your trying to do here. > > Sorry I lost your original post. But may I offer some food for > > thought? > > > > First, here is a link and picture of the Oyster Shell Flour and its > > manufacture: > > > > http://www.downtoearthdistributors.com/oystershell.html > <http://www.downtoearthdistributors.com/oystershell.html> > > > > Next, I am reading in the postings this morning that your adding > > "hand fulls" of coral to the tank? > > If you go to far (and I did, so I know) its the devil to get it back > > out. Use some type of bag for control. > > > > And finally, on the bag itself, you can get a regular one for this > > purpose at Dr's. here: > > > http://pet-supplies.drsfostersmith.com/search?af=type%3Aproduct&ca > rtcount=0&wishcount=0&subtotal=0.00&w=mesh+bag&asug=mesh > <http://pet-supplies.drsfostersmith.com/search?af=type%3Aproduct&c > artcount=0&wishcount=0&subtotal=0.00&w=mesh+bag&asug=mesh> > > > > Now if you are using your own, as Len mentioned, not Fish-Nets, use > > real nylons. By that I mean stockings, not pantyhose. Why? While > > I am not proficient in ladies wear, I am almost positive that > > pantyhose products contain Spandex? I don't think you want that > > chemical in your aquarium water as it could break down in time and > > who knows were that could lead. Stay with anything that's 100% > > nylon. > > > > "Playing in the Water" as I like to call it, is not advisable but it > > can be done. If your taking readings and the proper notes, over > > time you will develope a regular system and once your goals are > > reached you will learn how much water to use in your regualr water > > changes so as to not upset the balance you have acheieved. You > > mentioned this morning about having that coral from the orginal > > owner? > > Please tell me you "sterlized" what portions you are using BEFORE > > putting it into your aquarium? > > > > Bill > > > > --- On Fri, 6/26/09, Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@... > <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com>> > > wrote: > > > > > > From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@... > <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com>> > > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] 55 gallon community tank > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > Date: Friday, June 26, 2009, 4:59 AM > > > > > > I've never seen a good article on the proper use of crushed coral. > > I think there are so many variables that it's hard to know precisely > > how much to use. It's probably something someone with multiple > > tanks could do and keep accurate records over the course of several > > months and then come up with some kind of formula, then publish the > > formula to get more people trying it and reporting back with their > > results to make sure the formula works for the masses. > > > > The problems that I see is that the more acidic the water, the > > faster the coral would be dissolve BUT if the water is acidic and > > has a high GH and low KH, then the calcium side of the coral would > > not dissolve as fast. If the water is acidic and has a high KH and > > low GH, then the carbonate side would not dissolve as fast. If the > > water is not acidic, then the coral would dissolve much slower. Of > > course, the flow rate of the water through the filter also has some > > factor in the dissolve rate. I'm not sure how these variables would > > affect how much should be used. I'm guessing there would have to be > > a baseline established at 7.0 pH with moderate GH and KH levels and > > then work up and down from there. One figure I've seen posted in > > forums before was 1kg per 40 liters of water, when used as in the > > substrate. That would translate to around 2 pounds per 10G of > > water. > > Obviously, not > > something you could fit in a filter system. That's the other > > problem for many folks. While folks with BIG canister filters could > > use the crushed coral in a filter media bag in their filter > > reservoir, this isn't possible with most of the smaller HOB's. > > > > I think it really comes down to each fishkeeper coming up with their > > own "system" of how to use crushed coral or cuttlebone. > > That's the good thing > > about using things like Baking Soda and Oyster Flour... > > they can be > > precisely measured, dosed and measured with test kits to see that > > they are doing what they are supposed to be doing. > > > > Of course, when things get too complicated... keep fish that like > > your source water in the first place. Of course, when one wants to > > have a heavily planted tank and/or keep fish that do not do well > > with their baseline water, then these other measures become > > necessary. > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the > > right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by > > Year, Month) > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] > > On > > Behalf Of Amber Berglund > > Sent: Friday, June 26, 2009 12:44 AM > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] 55 gallon community tank > > > > most of the crushed coral is sold live, they're getting it > > somewhere, hmmm... wonder where? ;) Should I wait to add any more of > > the crushed coral? > > I'm not sure how fast it would normally affect the GH or KH. > > > > Amber > > > > Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > > > > > > > > > OOHHHH.. so now we have a conspiracy of reef > > destroyers. LOL > > > > > > I wonder where they get the "crushed coral" that is > > sold? I see that > > > the CaribSea brand is called Florida Crushed Coral. > > With the > > > protection that most places give to their coral reefs, > > you would think > > > that selling crushed coral would be a no-no. Florida > > even has a > > > section of their Dept. Of Environmental Protection > > website talking > > > about saving their reefs. > > > http://www.dep.state.fl.us/coastal/programs/coral/maritime.htm > <http://www.dep.state.fl.us/coastal/programs/coral/maritime.htm> > > > <http://www.dep.state.fl.us/coastal/programs/coral/maritime.htm > <http://www.dep.state.fl.us/coastal/programs/coral/maritime.htm>> > > > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>> > > > (Links > > to any articles referenced in > > > above reply are listed on the right side, > > alphabetically under Labels > > > and also under Archives by Year, Month) > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On > > Behalf Of Amber Berglund > > > Sent: Thursday, June 25, 2009 11:17 PM > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] 55 gallon community tank > > > > > > I didn't destroy anything, it was given to me by the > > previous owner of > > > the > > > 125 gallon tank, she was going to throw it away so I > > said i would take > > > it off of her hands, figured it may come in handy some > > day ;) > > > > > > Amber > > > > > > Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > Calcium would affect GH. > > > > > > > > I'm not going to ask which reef you destroyed for > > that garbage can > > > > full of crushed coral.... and hopefully the > > reef-huggers aren't > > > > reading this thread. > > > > > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>> > > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>>> > > > (Links to any articles referenced in > > > > above reply are listed on the right side, > > alphabetically under > > > > Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) > > > > > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On > > Behalf Of Amber Berglund > > > > Sent: Thursday, June 25, 2009 10:58 PM > > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] 55 gallon community > > tank > > > > > > > > I have a garbage can full of crushed coral ;) > > LOL. > > > > That's going to last me awhile for now, and it's > > free. > > > > I will figure out something different when I run > > low on the crushed > > > > coral ;) > > > > > > > > Also no one answered my question about calcium > > chloride, what does > > > > it affect? GH or KH? I bought it for when I have > > the snails, wanted > > > > to have calcium on hand. > > > > > > > > Amber > > > > > > > > Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > OK. If the crushed coral is raising it up > > from the 33ppm range to > > > > > the 75ppm range, then you are probably going > > to be OK. > > > > > > > > > > Crushed coral can/should raise both since > > crushed coral is > > > > > supposed to be calcium carbonate also. > > > > > > > > > > Here's a snip from my calculations post in > > the Ponds-Koi forum. Of > > > > > course, this snip is dealing with something > > like Oyster Flour > > > > > which is immediately dissolvable in the > > water column, not > > > > > something you have to wait to break down > > like crushed coral. The > > > > > Carbonate could be dissolving so slowly that > > your tank's ecology > > > > > is using it up faster or as fast as it is > > being released. > > > > > > > > > > > > "...Two teaspoons (about 4 grams) > > of calcium carbonate > > > > > > > (CaCO3) per 50 liters of water > > will increase both KH and GH by > > > > > > > 4 degrees..." from > http://www.thekrib.com/Plants/CO2/khgh.html > > and since > > > > > > > raising it 4 degrees is kind of > > where we want to raise it > > > > > > > since it has > > > > > > > 1 degree already, it's just a > > matter of doing a little more math.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 41459	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 6/26/2009
Subject: Re: Angels Please help???

As Ray has stated, your ammonia level of 1.0, at pH 6.6, is not toxic or even harmful to them, unless your tank water is REALLY warm. As long as it is around 78-80F, then you are OK. The toxicity of ammonia is affected by pH and temperature, the higher the pH and higher the temperature, the more ammonia becomes toxic. Here is a site that has charts showing the toxicity level of ammonia at the various pH levels. http://dataguru.org/misc/aquarium/AmmoniaTox.html When you say "nitrite is good", what is the actual test result? Anything over 0.0ppm is NOT good. All of this said, it's still best that a fish tank be fully cycled when adding new fish and that the ammonia/nitrite levels be monitored on a daily basis after adding new fish to make sure the "Cycle" is able to keep up with the added bioload. If the ammonia/nitrite start to spike to dangerous levels, then PWC's would be needed. Adding a pinch of salt, per 10G, will also help to prevent nitrite poisoning (brown blood disorder) during these cycling issues. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Joellen & Kevin Analla Sent: Friday, June 26, 2009 10:14 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: Angels Please help??? Well i just got done testing my water and amoniais still at 1.0, should i go buy an amonia tablet that removes amonia? the 2 angels are still alive and eating and appear to look healthy still waiting tho. Ph is still low at 6.6 and nitrite is good. ...Jo --- On Fri, 6/26/09, Raymond Wetzel <sevenspringss@...> wrote: From: Raymond Wetzel <sevenspringss@...> Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Angels Please help??? To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Date: Friday, June 26, 2009, 10:52 AM I meant to add something to this, but sent it before I thought of completing it. Anyway, in short -- it appeared as though you had a mini-cycle (like your tank was not properly cycled at the time to be able to handle the ammonia). Now, as for water changes, while it's alway best to keep your ammonia at a minimum, you don't want to remove it all physically before your ammonia-converting bacteria have had a chance to utilize it to build up their population to a proper level -- to re-cycle your tank. Then too, I don't know the pH of your tap water and how much each PWC will affect your present pH reading. As I've stated before, your fish are safe with a 1.0 ppm level of total Ammonia at a pH of 6.6. It would take quite a bit of PWCing to change your pH drastically enough so that this Ammonia would be toxic to your fish, even if your tap water were at pH 7.8. You should know though, that besides the pH affecting the toxicity of Ammonia, the temperature also plays a role in it. At 68 o, this level (1.0 ppm) of total ammonia does not become toxic until the pH falls to 7.7. At 74 o, a pH of 7.6 is required to make the Ammonia toxic (creating/convertin g enough free-Ammonia from the Ammonium) and at a temperature of 80 o, this same level of Ammonia will become toxic at pH 7.5. It will not be lethal though, until the temperature gets to 85 o at pH 7.6. This is on average as each species is affected a bit differently by Ammonia, some being a bit more intolerant than others, but it's sufficiently in the ball park. Ray --- In AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com, Joellen & Kevin Analla <anallafamily. 2001@...> wrote: > > Well as I know there is no exact amount of time for a tank to cycle it > has been set up for at least 2 mo. and before I put angels in it I > tested ammonia and it was ok. The ammonia levels have raised only > since the fish have been dieing. Well yesterday I did a partial water > change to try and lower ammonia levels. I have yet to test it this > morning to see if it helped. Jo > > --- On Thu, 6/25/09, Raymond Wetzel <sevenspringss@ ...> wrote: > > > From: Raymond Wetzel <sevenspringss@ ...> > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Angels Please help??? > To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com > Date: Thursday, June 25, 2009, 9:59 AM > > > > > > > > > Hi Amber, Going with everything I read of Jo's postings on the scenario of this whole situation, yes, I can only conclude with a good deal of certainty that here fish are dying as a result of this infection. This terrible disease was prevalent some 15 to 20 years ago, first eminating, then spreading friom the Far East. While I've lived through this period and have experienced this whole sequence of events day to day of the hobby being so adversely affected by this disease, this is not my reason for my coming to this conclusion. Devastating as it was, I am not an alarmist. > > Others here, who may never have heard of this disease (or who may have, but think this is now past history), cannot know that this disease still survives today in Angelfish from Angelfish stocks still being produced in those areas (Asia & Florida) where the disease originated and then was most prevalent. This disease was never conquered. The Far Eastern Angelfish breeders were never completely wiped out (even though extremely affected by hugh losses) to the point that they started back completely fresh with completely all new stock. The Angelfish stock that they were left with, that finally survived the onslaught due to their immunity system finally coping with this disease is the same stock they continued with -- now a necessarily stronger breeder stock for them and the Florida fish farmers, in that they have a higher immune system to be able to deal with this virus that co-exists with them in their systems. > > However, even though the juveniles from this stock (possibly the 4th > or 5th generation by now, from when this first started) are expose to this virus early on in their lives -- their immune systems having to have built up against this disease as they grew to selling size -- the stress of shipping when combined with the constant battle of their immune systems having to deal with this ever-present virus in their systems (due to its ongoing presence in their environment) is just too much for them to endure. The influences of both stresses soon take their toll, manifested as losses within 6 or 7 days for most of the stock that were subjected to the stress of shipping. Any other Angels that seemingly were not quite as affected/stressed by shipping immediately may live a short while later, but by this time the virus is now overpowering their immune system to the point of eventually (often within the month) killing them. Obviously, introducing any Angels in with these infected fish during this time of them living in limbo is to be subjecting these new Angels to a disease they've never seen and have no defence at all for, with the inevitable loss of them as well. The infected environment is just as deadly to any new Angels, even without the presence of infected fish, until this environment is disinfected. This disease still persists today -- it has never been irradiacated and is an unfortunate situation for an unsuspecting hobbyist who has no previous knowledge of it, when they buy such fish from those sources (like Walmart) which persist in selling them only because these fish are the lowest price their management can find to contract with. It's a very dangerous situation. > > Now, getting back to these other points you've brought up, which need addressing. While, as \\Steve// says, ideally no ammonia should be permitted to exist, and while Jo's ammonia level of 1.0 ppm does certainly appear to be the direct result of an uncycled tank (since ammonia has shown to build up in her tank from 0.0 ppm to 1.0 ppm, yet is not being converted to nitrite) still, with Jo's ph at between 6.5 (original post) and 6.6 (follow-up post) any and all Ammonia would be in the form or relatively harmless Ammonium -- not affecting the Angelfish detrimentally in the least -- so we can rule this out, if that's what you need done. I cannot condone the use of buffers to lower the pH either, and again go right along with \\Steve// on this. Not only as it's not at all needed (especially in this situation of maintaining Angelfish) but can lead to serious consequences such as unstable pH levels and/or even possible pH crashes as \\Steve// points out. > > Still, I see no evidence of Jo having to add any additional amounts of pH buffer between PWC's because of the buffer being exhausted, nor have I seen any high pH level readings, although there still may have been some between PWC's, which may not have been tested for. Likewise, I have fortunately not seen evidence of a pH crash, nor any possible cause for pH shock as a result of such a crash. Jo's methods of acclimating may leave more to be desired even though the concept is correct as, unless she has not given a full description, this tank water introduction to the bucket containing the fish does seem to be too abbreviated. Full acclimation requires more than one or two cups of new water over a period of 15 minutes (as I seem to perceive from her post), but it's possible she may just not have gone into the repetition of this procedure. > > In all, with taking into consideration all possible negative points > you've brought up and needed to have addressed, or that \\Steve// or I > could think of to be ruled out, I cannot see where any of these other > possibilities could enter into consideration -- especially when > realizing that these deaths were not a one-time occurance, but have > repeatedly happened with each numerous addition of new Angelfish in > the many attempts to introduce them to her tank. One might be able to > say that in isolated incidences, that a certain batch of Angelfish may > have been pH-shocked, or that another batch of Angelfish may have been > inadvertantly subjected to lethal levels of ammonia at some point -- > which appears quite remote, even if I'm reaching for straws -- but > when repeated batches of Angelfish die for no other apparent reason > there is a pattern that develops which to me has no other answer than > this Virus by what is occurring -- when looking at all other details > involved in this picture. I've seen it too many times to not ignore > it, nor mistake it for anything else. Ray > > --- In AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com, Amber Berglund <amber@> wrote: > > > > Ray are you sure that his fish are dying to this infection rather > > than dying from ammonia poisoning from an uncycled tank? Not to > > mention he used a pH adjusting buffer to lower his pH... > > This might just be a lack of experience too I would think it's > > possible at least. We should at least rule those out before rushing > > into thinking it's a serious problem right from the bat (the Angelfish infection). > > > > Amber > > > > Raymond Wetzel wrote: > > > > > > > > > By your post, it appears that you've taken the time to read over > > > my message on the topic, so you could finally understand it -- > > > which I appreciate your doing, as it will only benefit yourself. > > > Your two remaining Angelfish stand a better chance of dying a > > > premature death, and that death may come even sooner than later. I > > > have seen other hobbyists maintaining a few remnant Angels from > > > such origins after the rest of the original stocks of them had > > > perished, only to pass on within the following month (or two, at > > > the latest). You may try to return these two Angels for store > > > credit, if they'll allow it, but otherwise, you'd need to keep > > > only these two until something happens to them. > > > > > > To add any Angelfish from other sources to these two Angelfish, > > > would be to subject them to an infection that they have no > > > immunity for, with the inevitable results of their dying from this, and quite fast. > > > If you want more Angels, and if you want healthy Angels, there is > > > no other choice than to put them in a clean, disinfected tank that > > > you're sure does not contain any disease -- which requires that > > > these two Angelfish no longer inhabit this tank, one way or another. > > > > > > IF there is a better way (and I know of no other way), I would be > > > more than pleased to tell you. As for knowing that a fish will be > > > okay, I can only tell you this -- that I, nor anyone else, cannot > > > say with 100% certainty that your two remaining Angelfish are not > > > okay -- it's impossible for me to be able to do that from where I > > > am (not within reach of your fish) or without the benefit of a > > > slide smear of this fish's waste to evaluate under the microscope. > > > But ALL things you've related about these fish and their deceased > > > siblings, including their source, the suddenness of their demise > > > and the repetition of these same circumstances spells out for me > > > with enough certainty with all I've experienced and learned of > > > this very disease, that this is indeed the dreaded fatal pathogen > > > that has plagued Angelfish ongoing from a quarter century ago. > > > > > > I could choose to see your Angelfish loses as just the chance > > > results of poorer than required water conditions combined with > > > your possible inexperience with them and the luck of the draw > > > along with the inevitableness of young Angels dying en-mass for > > > unexplained reasons not unrelated to your general lack of aquarium > > > knowledge at this stage of the game -- as some here may be > > > suggesting -- but to do so would be to go against everything I've > > > learned about Angelfish in 62 years of working with them, and > > > living through the horrid period of decimation of these fish through the spread of this Virus. > > > > > > I've seen many, many cases of this virus striking Angelfish and > > > have known many Angelfish breeders who were effected by the > > > devastation of it and the experiences they've gone through during > > > the peak period when this Virus was at its worst. > > > > > > AND . . . > > > > > > I have seen in TODAY's WORLD, the EXACT same thing as you are > > > describing happening to you, of Angelfish being sold by Walmart > > > (and > > > others) which are infected by this virus and which have been > > > dropping otherwise unexplainedly like flies -- INCLUDING having > > > one or two fish temporarily survive this onslault only to died > > > within the following month. I DO NOT think this is all > > > coincidental. My brother (who had yet to learn of this disease) > > > experienced the VERY things with young Angelfish he recently > > > bought from Walmart a couple of months ago, amost word for word. > > > In his case, his lone surviving Angel lasted another 3 weeks after > > > the first ones died -- and he knows about keeping fish properly. > > > Many of my customers (fish store owners who purchase my Angelfish) > > > have told me of the quality of Angelfish (and the Virus they still > > > carry) they've bought in the recent past from both Florida and > > > directly from the Far East that just fold up on them within a > > > week's time, often resulting in complete losses -- the unaccounted > > > for ones having already been sold prior to the end of the week. > > > These sources and the Angelfish Virus they promote through selling > > > infected fish are still notorious for spreading this disease with the help of unknowing dealers and hobbyists even today. > > > > > > Of course, you do not need to believe me, but then it would be > > > folly to continue in the manner you're attempting to add Angelfish > > > to your tank in hopes they'll survive. For all we know though, > > > without having your two Angelfish analyzed, they may be the > > > healthiest Angels on earth -- But I wouldn't want to bet the farm on it! > > > > > > I suggested to you what needs to be done to succeed. You may > > > follow this advice, or you may ignore it -- that's your decision. > > > When buying from a different source, a reputable breeder who has > > > reliably supplied quality disease-free Angelfish for many years > > > simply cannot afford to risk selling diseased Angelfish, and still > > > have his business and reputation survive. IF contemplating buying > > > from such a known and reputable dealer, you need to make sure whom you are dealing with. > > > There are many reputable Angelfish breeders in existance, but with > > > your not having the experience to know which are the better ones, > > > you may not know yet who to buy from with confidence. I WILL tell > > > you that you can't expect to pay Walmart prices and still get good > > > fish. A lot of work goes into raising these Angelfish and as a > > > result these breeders will (need) to charge more, but a good > > > breeder will be fair > > > -- he does not need to price-gouge. If you're still following up > > > on this, and need further advise, there are a number of people > > > here who can best assist you with recommending breeders of quality > > > Angels. I can start by wholeheartedly recommending Steve Rybicki > > > of Angels Plus as one whom I can vouch for selling disease-free > > > Angelfish; Steve's been in the business for at least 25 years. Ray > > > > > > --- In AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com <mailto:AquaticLife > > > %40yahoogroups. com>, Joellen & Kevin Analla <anallafamily. 2001@> > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > So basically what your saying is that all fish in tank (2Angels) > > > must die then i need to disinfect all equipment then start all > > > over buying from a different source but theres no garanteen that > > > even a differant source could still get infected in that case i > > > would have to repeat process agian......Really isnt there a better > > > way, or even a way of knowing that fish will be ok . > > > > > > > > --- On Wed, 6/24/09, Raymond Wetzel <sevenspringss@ > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > From: Raymond Wetzel <sevenspringss@ > > > > > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Angels Please help??? > > > > To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com <mailto:AquaticLife > > > > %40yahoogroups. com> > > > > Date: Wednesday, June 24, 2009, 1:33 AM > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Hello Jo, So sorry you are running into this frustrating > > > > experience > > > in trying to keep Angelfish, when the species is not difficult to > > > maintain. Ordinarily, we would ask just what you meant (and will > > > still do this) when you say that your water is all testing okay. > > > When giving us any of your data concerning your water parameters, > > > we prefer to have number to be evaluate your circumstances, and > > > the actual test results in ppm (parts per million) best reflect > > > your actual conditions. If you could give us your test results for > > > pH, ammonia, nitrite and even nitrate, it could be a great help. > > > If you can provide results for temporary hardness (KH) and > > > total/general hardness (GH), this may be of further assistance to > > > us -- the more information, the better. BUT, in this particular > > > case, I do not believe it's your water quality that's at fault, even though we need to rule that out. > > > > > > > > Most unfortunately, new prospective Angelfish hobbyists will run > > > into this situation when buying from retailers who prefer > > > obtaining their Angelfish stocks indiscriminantly, possibly in an > > > effort to save money or perhaps just for the convenience. However, > > > in buying in essence what can be established as inferior stock, I > > > fail to see what they think they gain. Unfortunately too, the > > > customer (you) is too often unsuspecting of this possibility and > > > blame the deaths of these fish on themselves, when in truth it's > > > the poor stock itself that these outlets continue to retail -- > > > despite the many losses they themselves have with each re-stocking. > > > > > > > > These retailers know that they will not be alienating their > > > customers, as these customers are completely unaware that this > > > stock is inferior, and in their quest to maintain this beautiful > > > species, they repeatedly buy new stock in hopes they can keep them > > > alive. Some of the larger chain stores (and some smaller shops) > > > operate in this manner, Walmart having been one of them until they > > > gave up selling tropical fish; these stores continuing to buy > > > their Angels only from preferred sources which may include a > > > headquarter- -designated distributor, a Florida fish farm, a local > > > wholesaler that buys from either Florida or the Far East, or a Far > > > East breeding establishment- -exporter -- rather than a reputable domestic breeder. > > > > > > > > Now, getting to the root of this practice and its problem. Going > > > back some 15 years or slightly more, there was a major outbreak of > > > a horrific Angelfish Virus disease originating in the Far East, > > > decimating Angelfish stocks there as well as in this country when > > > it was introduced here through imports of that stock into this country. > > > Many domestic Angelfish breeders in this country were wiped out or > > > at least partially effected, not suspecting this problem, and > > > mixed that stock with theirs. The problem didn't stop there in > > > this country as a good number of the Florida fish farmers also > > > introduced this diseased Asian stock of Angelfish to their > > > hatcheries in efforts to strengthen their own stocks with "new > > > blood," not yet knowing the consequences they would have to pay. > > > > > > > > Gradually, this disease was finally contained although never > > > completely cured. Those Asian stocks that survived were > > > strengthened by natural selection to be able to remain viable > > > while still carrying th Virus as a latent disease always present > > > but under control of these latest Angelfish's adapted immune > > > systems. This same adaptation of the Angelfish's immune system to > > > contain this Virus as of late, also emerged from those Florida > > > fish farm's stocks which were similarly effected. > > > > > > > > As a result, most any Angelfish derived today from either those > > > effected Florida fish farms or those Far Eastern > > > hatchery/exporters carry this Virus as a weaker (as controlled now > > > by these Angels' new but limited immunity), yet still viable > > > disease still capable of overtaking the Angelfish as soon as > > > receieves enough stress. This shared (but not mutually beneficial > > > where the fish is concerned) existance is called "symbiosis," and > > > is seen also in many Cichlids -- including Angelfish -- as > > > Hexamita, where this protozoan resides in a latent condition in > > > the fish's intestine, only to overtake the fish when the fish experiences sufficient stress for it to do so. > > > > > > > > So, now when these Angelfish (carrying this disease) reach your > > > local fish store, they look fine at first and appear most healthy. > > > However, the stress of shipping soon takes its toll over the next > > > week as the disease now devastates these stressed and weakened > > > fish. These fish are not expected to last much more than an > > > average of 6 or 7 days as a result of what happens with them. > > > Likewise, many (most?) of the same fish in these stores that stock > > > them soon die also (they are KNOWN to fold up), but the > > > storekeeper has still made his profit and has "satisfied" his > > > customers, which causes them to keep coming back to those stores. > > > > > > > > If any of this rings a bell for you, you may finally be > > > understanding what's happening with your Angelfish. A few, such as > > > the two you have that survived so far will live for an > > > undetermined period of time, but their days are still numbered > > > (could live for another few weeks or so). If you still want to > > > keep Angelfish, you cannot continue to buy them from this present > > > source as they'll meet the same fate, nor can you add any other > > > Angelfish to this tank from a different source as they'll become > > > infected. I really hate to have to suggest this, and I don't know > > > if you have any other species of fish presently in this tank, but > > > before you add any more Angels -- and they MUST be from a > > > reputable domestic breeder -- this tank and all its equipment must > > > be disinfected after these two remaining Angels secumb. I hope > > > this whole scenario of events as pertains to Angelfish has been at > > > least enlightening for you, and will serve to assist you in the > > > future (we'll > > > > still be here to help). I regret that since you most probably > > > > have > > > introduced disease-carrying Angelfish unknowingly, that you'll > > > have a long road ahead of you in maintaining your goal, but at > > > least now you know what to expect. Please keep us posted, Ray > > > > > > > > --- In AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com, "anallafamily. 2001" > > > <anallafamily. 2001@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > I'm new to the group so just let me know if I say or do > > > > > something > > > not right...... > > > > > My Question.... I wanted to start up an angel tank so I have a > > > 55gal set up.. I keep buying 5 angels at a time and they keep > > > dying slowly but surely.. I think altogether I have bought 16 > > > Angels and I have managed to get 2 to live for at least 6 days > > > now. I have plenty of filtration and water flow, I have ph at 6.5 > > > and water is all testing ok... So what am I doing wrong? and > > > should I go get more since I got 2 to live uhhhhhh What do I do I > > > feel like I want to give up but I really thought they were such a beautiful fish. > > > > > Please Help Jo..

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 41460	From: Raymond Wetzel	Date: 6/26/2009
Subject: Re: O/T - PC Malfunctions

Does anyone (Lenny, \\Steve//) know if there is a circuit overload (fuse?) inside of computers that may get to be faulty, or can a overload-protection power strip go bad to the point of shutting itself off for no reason? I've been trying to reply to recent posts, some which I've been successful with and some that I had to re-write, due to 'puter malfunction. I've been unsuccessful in replying to one of Jasmine's messages from yesterday morning and just now Joellen's most recent message. I will be partly into writing a reply, when the screen goes black for about 3 seconds as though someone pulled the plug, then starts re-booting itself. Naturally all is lost at that time. This is a new one that's it's added to its bag of tricks, but one that's getting increasingly more frequent. Is there a fix I can do, like replacing a circuit breaker, or does this machine need the permanent fix (trash)? Thanks guys, Ray

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 41461	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 6/26/2009
Subject: Re: 55 gallon community tank

I want to get my pH where it is closer to my tapwater baseline so I won't stress out the fish too much doing PWC's. So to do that I'm going to have to maintain a higher KH and GH correct? Amber Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > > > Amber, > > Daily dosing is not required for GH/KH issues. BUT... for at least one of > the SeaChem products, Excel, I think daily dosing is at least suggested. > > If you went with the Oyster Flour, you would only have to daily dose > for the > first week or so to bring the GH/KH levels up to where you want them. > After > that, you would just dose the water you are putting back into the tank > after > your weekly tank maintenance. > > Yes, using something like the crushed coral or cuttlebone means that you > would only have to fill a filter media bag and stick that in your filter > reservoir. Then check it on a weekly basis and top off the bag whenever it > starts to get low due to the media dissolving. > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right > side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) > > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On > Behalf Of Amber Berglund > Sent: Friday, June 26, 2009 10:05 AM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] 55 gallon community tank > > I just did my baseline tests, initial tests had my pH at 6.5-6.6 and > GH was > approx 100ppm , and KH was 18ppm or less (1 drop). > pH rose to 6.8 after 24 and 48 hours, GH lowered to 38ppm after 48 > hours and > KH remained the same the whole time. > As you can see I have a little GH in my tap water, but hardly any KH > at all, > so I'm trying to remedy this and get my tanks at a more reasonable KH > and GH > level without having to dose the tank every day. > Let's put it this way, if I had to take daily meds to stay alive, I'd > probably forget and die... now lets not put someone in charge of daily > dosing on a tank that's very important for the health of the fish ;) LOL. > > Amber > > bill 1433 wrote: > > > > > > Amber!!! Sorry! I forgot something, > > > > As Len just mentioned GH and KH in your tap water is very important to > > all of this. > > > > If you will remember back some time ago I went through all of this > > BUT, I had no GH or KH at all, natural spring, well water here. BUT I > > also have an extremely low pH, 5.5 to 5.7 naturally. > > > > All of this has a direct bearing on all tests. You must know for sure > > your starting or baseline readings for pH, GH and KH. > > > > The amount of your starting readings will greatly affect the over-all > > speed which any buffer or agent like the Oyster Flour, crushed coral > > will work. Mine was very fast because of the well waters low pH. > > Yours may not be. Also please remember that I had no GH or KH to > > start with. This was my whole point in playing in the water. With a > > measurable amount of GH and KH I hoped to achieve a buffer to guard > > against pH spikes and drops.. > > > > Bill > > > > --- On Fri, 6/26/09, bill 1433 <warrenprint@... > <mailto:warrenprint%40yahoo.com> > > <mailto:warrenprint%40yahoo.com>> wrote: > > > > > From: bill 1433 <warrenprint@... > <mailto:warrenprint%40yahoo.com> > > > <mailto:warrenprint%40yahoo.com>> > > > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] 55 gallon community tank > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > Date: Friday, June 26, 2009, 9:30 AM > > > > > > Hi Amber, > > > > > > I am still trying to figure out exactly what your trying to do here. > > > Sorry I lost your original post. But may I offer some food for > > > thought? > > > > > > First, here is a link and picture of the Oyster Shell Flour and its > > > manufacture: > > > > > > http://www.downtoearthdistributors.com/oystershell.html > <http://www.downtoearthdistributors.com/oystershell.html> > > <http://www.downtoearthdistributors.com/oystershell.html > <http://www.downtoearthdistributors.com/oystershell.html>> > > > > > > Next, I am reading in the postings this morning that your adding > > > "hand fulls" of coral to the tank? > > > If you go to far (and I did, so I know) its the devil to get it back > > > out. Use some type of bag for control. > > > > > > And finally, on the bag itself, you can get a regular one for this > > > purpose at Dr's. here: > > > > > > http://pet-supplies.drsfostersmith.com/search?af=type%3Aproduct&ca > <http://pet-supplies.drsfostersmith.com/search?af=type%3Aproduct&ca> > > rtcount=0&wishcount=0&subtotal=0.00&w=mesh+bag&asug=mesh > > > <http://pet-supplies.drsfostersmith.com/search?af=type%3Aproduct&c > <http://pet-supplies.drsfostersmith.com/search?af=type%3Aproduct&c> > > artcount=0&wishcount=0&subtotal=0.00&w=mesh+bag&asug=mesh> > > > > > > Now if you are using your own, as Len mentioned, not Fish-Nets, use > > > real nylons. By that I mean stockings, not pantyhose. Why? While > > > I am not proficient in ladies wear, I am almost positive that > > > pantyhose products contain Spandex? I don't think you want that > > > chemical in your aquarium water as it could break down in time and > > > who knows were that could lead. Stay with anything that's 100% > > > nylon. > > > > > > "Playing in the Water" as I like to call it, is not advisable but it > > > can be done. If your taking readings and the proper notes, over > > > time you will develope a regular system and once your goals are > > > reached you will learn how much water to use in your regualr water > > > changes so as to not upset the balance you have acheieved. You > > > mentioned this morning about having that coral from the orginal > > > owner? > > > Please tell me you "sterlized" what portions you are using BEFORE > > > putting it into your aquarium? > > > > > > Bill > > > > > > --- On Fri, 6/26/09, Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@... > <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com> > > <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com>> > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@... > <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com> > > <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com>> > > > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] 55 gallon community tank > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > Date: Friday, June 26, 2009, 4:59 AM > > > > > > > > > I've never seen a good article on the proper use of crushed coral. > > > I think there are so many variables that it's hard to know precisely > > > how much to use. It's probably something someone with multiple > > > tanks could do and keep accurate records over the course of several > > > months and then come up with some kind of formula, then publish the > > > formula to get more people trying it and reporting back with their > > > results to make sure the formula works for the masses. > > > > > > The problems that I see is that the more acidic the water, the > > > faster the coral would be dissolve BUT if the water is acidic and > > > has a high GH and low KH, then the calcium side of the coral would > > > not dissolve as fast. If the water is acidic and has a high KH and > > > low GH, then the carbonate side would not dissolve as fast. If the > > > water is not acidic, then the coral would dissolve much slower. Of > > > course, the flow rate of the water through the filter also has some > > > factor in the dissolve rate. I'm not sure how these variables would > > > affect how much should be used. I'm guessing there would have to be > > > a baseline established at 7.0 pH with moderate GH and KH levels and > > > then work up and down from there. One figure I've seen posted in > > > forums before was 1kg per 40 liters of water, when used as in the > > > substrate. That would translate to around 2 pounds per 10G of > > > water. > > > Obviously, not > > > something you could fit in a filter system. That's the other > > > problem for many folks. While folks with BIG canister filters could > > > use the crushed coral in a filter media bag in their filter > > > reservoir, this isn't possible with most of the smaller HOB's. > > > > > > I think it really comes down to each fishkeeper coming up with their > > > own "system" of how to use crushed coral or cuttlebone. > > > That's the good thing > > > about using things like Baking Soda and Oyster Flour... > > > they can be > > > precisely measured, dosed and measured with test kits to see that > > > they are doing what they are supposed to be doing. > > > > > > Of course, when things get too complicated... keep fish that like > > > your source water in the first place. Of course, when one wants to > > > have a heavily planted tank and/or keep fish that do not do well > > > with their baseline water, then these other measures become > > > necessary. > > > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>> > > > (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the > > > right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by > > > Year, Month) > > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] > > > On > > > Behalf Of Amber Berglund > > > Sent: Friday, June 26, 2009 12:44 AM > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] 55 gallon community tank > > > > > > most of the crushed coral is sold live, they're getting it > > > somewhere, hmmm... wonder where? ;) Should I wait to add any more of > > > the crushed coral? > > > I'm not sure how fast it would normally affect the GH or KH. > > > > > > Amber > > > > > > Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > OOHHHH.. so now we have a conspiracy of reef > > > destroyers. LOL > > > > > > > > I wonder where they get the "crushed coral" that is > > > sold? I see that > > > > the CaribSea brand is called Florida Crushed Coral. > > > With the > > > > protection that most places give to their coral reefs, > > > you would think > > > > that selling crushed coral would be a no-no. Florida > > > even has a > > > > section of their Dept. Of Environmental Protection > > > website talking > > > > about saving their reefs. > > > > http://www.dep.state.fl.us/coastal/programs/coral/maritime.htm > <http://www.dep.state.fl.us/coastal/programs/coral/maritime.htm> > > <http://www.dep.state.fl.us/coastal/programs/coral/maritime.htm > <http://www.dep.state.fl.us/coastal/programs/coral/maritime.htm>> > > > > <http://www.dep.state.fl.us/coastal/programs/coral/maritime.htm > <http://www.dep.state.fl.us/coastal/programs/coral/maritime.htm> > > <http://www.dep.state.fl.us/coastal/programs/coral/maritime.htm > <http://www.dep.state.fl.us/coastal/programs/coral/maritime.htm>>> > > > > > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>> > > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>>> > > > > (Links > > > to any articles referenced in > > > > above reply are listed on the right side, > > > alphabetically under Labels > > > > and also under Archives by Year, Month) > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On > > > Behalf Of Amber Berglund > > > > Sent: Thursday, June 25, 2009 11:17 PM > > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] 55 gallon community tank > > > > > > > > I didn't destroy anything, it was given to me by the > > > previous owner of > > > > the > > > > 125 gallon tank, she was going to throw it away so I > > > said i would take > > > > it off of her hands, figured it may come in handy some > > > day ;) > > > > > > > > Amber > > > > > > > > Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Calcium would affect GH. > > > > > > > > > > I'm not going to ask which reef you destroyed for > > > that garbage can > > > > > full of crushed coral.... and hopefully the > > > reef-huggers aren't > > > > > reading this thread. > > > > > > > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > > > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>> > > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>>> > > > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>> > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>>>> > > > > (Links to any articles referenced in > > > > > above reply are listed on the right side, > > > alphabetically under > > > > > Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On > > > Behalf Of Amber Berglund > > > > > Sent: Thursday, June 25, 2009 10:58 PM > > > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] 55 gallon community > > > tank > > > > > > > > > > I have a garbage can full of crushed coral ;) > > > LOL. > > > > > That's going to last me awhile for now, and it's > > > free. > > > > > I will figure out something different when I run > > > low on the crushed > > > > > coral ;) > > > > > > > > > > Also no one answered my question about calcium > > > chloride, what does > > > > > it affect? GH or KH? I bought it for when I have > > > the snails, wanted > > > > > to have calcium on hand. > > > > > > > > > > Amber > > > > > > > > > > Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > OK. If the crushed coral is raising it up > > > from the 33ppm range to > > > > > > the 75ppm range, then you are probably going > > > to be OK. > > > > > > > > > > > > Crushed coral can/should raise both since > > > crushed coral is > > > > > > supposed to be calcium carbonate also. > > > > > > > > > > > > Here's a snip from my calculations post in > > > the Ponds-Koi forum. Of > > > > > > course, this snip is dealing with something > > > like Oyster Flour > > > > > > which is immediately dissolvable in the > > > water column, not > > > > > > something you have to wait to break down > > > like crushed coral. The > > > > > > Carbonate could be dissolving so slowly that > > > your tank's ecology > > > > > > is using it up faster or as fast as it is > > > being released. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > "...Two teaspoons (about 4 grams) > > > of calcium carbonate > > > > > > > > (CaCO3) per 50 liters of water > > > will increase both KH and GH by > > > > > > > > 4 degrees..." from > > http://www.thekrib.com/Plants/CO2/khgh.html > <http://www.thekrib.com/Plants/CO2/khgh.html> > > > and since > > > > > > > > raising it 4 degrees is kind of > > > where we want to raise it > > > > > > > > since it has > > > > > > > > 1 degree already, it's just a > > > matter of doing a little more math. > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 41462	From: Gail	Date: 6/26/2009
Subject: Re: my nasty gourami

Yeah, I know. I had them in a 55 gallon - but since I am such a compulsive fish buyer, it's overcrowded and I have been trying to move some of my smaller fishes (or the ones I can catch) over to the 10 gallon. I just got lucky that my Gouramis are slow swimmers and I was able to catch them (they aren't very big BTW) and a black skirt tetra. thanks tho gail --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, Amber Berglund <amber@...> wrote: > > Blue gourami's need a bigger tank than10 gallons they get up to 6 inches. They are probably feeling crowded that's why all the aggression. > > Amber > > Gail <clandestine662002@...> wrote: > > >My experience with Gouramis, is that you are only suppose to have ONE per tank. How Big is your tank? > >I have two blue Gouramis and they get along when I had them in my 55 gallon, now that I have moved them to a 10 gallon - they aren't so friendly to eachother. No fin nipping in my case; just a lot of chasing. And are all of your Gouramis males? If so, that may be why you have this problem. > > > >thanks, > >gail > > > > > >--- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "greychildren" <greychildren@> wrote: > >> > >> Well like i told you guys several weeks ago i purchase 3 gold gourami's well the little nasty one nip all the fins from the other two gouramis a male and a female.. living one The nasty one left. i know there semi aggressive not aggressive... so should i take the gold gourami back to the FLS? He does not pic on the platys or head and tail tetras or should i get the kribs to calm him down? > >> > >> Jake > >> > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 41463	From: biG poppa	Date: 6/26/2009
Subject: Re: my nasty gourami

see im going to move some of my fish from my 40g planted to the new 55g setup i just dont know witch one yet...i have a pleco that going into the new set up from my 40g..the rest i dont know --- On Fri, 6/26/09, Gail <clandestine662002@...> wrote: From: Gail <clandestine662002@...> Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: my nasty gourami To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Date: Friday, June 26, 2009, 12:26 PM Yeah, I know. I had them in a 55 gallon - but since I am such a compulsive fish buyer, it's overcrowded and I have been trying to move some of my smaller fishes (or the ones I can catch) over to the 10 gallon. I just got lucky that my Gouramis are slow swimmers and I was able to catch them (they aren't very big BTW) and a black skirt tetra. thanks tho gail --- In AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com, Amber Berglund <amber@...> wrote: > > Blue gourami's need a bigger tank than10 gallons they get up to 6 inches. They are probably feeling crowded that's why all the aggression. > > Amber > > Gail <clandestine662002@ ...> wrote: > > >My experience with Gouramis, is that you are only suppose to have ONE per tank. How Big is your tank? > >I have two blue Gouramis and they get along when I had them in my 55 gallon, now that I have moved them to a 10 gallon - they aren't so friendly to eachother. No fin nipping in my case; just a lot of chasing. And are all of your Gouramis males? If so, that may be why you have this problem. > > > >thanks, > >gail > > > > > >--- In AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com, "greychildren" <greychildren@ > wrote: > >> > >> Well like i told you guys several weeks ago i purchase 3 gold gourami's well the little nasty one nip all the fins from the other two gouramis a male and a female.. living one The nasty one left. i know there semi aggressive not aggressive.. . so should i take the gold gourami back to the FLS? He does not pic on the platys or head and tail tetras or should i get the kribs to calm him down? > >> > >> Jake > >> > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 41464	From: Joellen & Kevin Analla	Date: 6/26/2009
Subject: Re: Angels Please help???

nitrite is at 0.0...im sorry. So because Ray says its a virus that killed all but 2 angels, how long should i wait before trying to add more from a different source of course....Jo --- On Fri, 6/26/09, Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@...> wrote: From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@...> Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: Angels Please help??? To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Date: Friday, June 26, 2009, 12:37 PM As Ray has stated, your ammonia level of 1.0, at pH 6.6, is not toxic or even harmful to them, unless your tank water is REALLY warm. As long as it is around 78-80F, then you are OK. The toxicity of ammonia is affected by pH and temperature, the higher the pH and higher the temperature, the more ammonia becomes toxic. Here is a site that has charts showing the toxicity level of ammonia at the various pH levels. http://dataguru. org/misc/ aquarium/ AmmoniaTox. html When you say "nitrite is good", what is the actual test result? Anything over 0.0ppm is NOT good. All of this said, it's still best that a fish tank be fully cycled when adding new fish and that the ammonia/nitrite levels be monitored on a daily basis after adding new fish to make sure the "Cycle" is able to keep up with the added bioload. If the ammonia/nitrite start to spike to dangerous levels, then PWC's would be needed. Adding a pinch of salt, per 10G, will also help to prevent nitrite poisoning (brown blood disorder) during these cycling issues. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com [mailto:AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com] On Behalf Of Joellen & Kevin Analla Sent: Friday, June 26, 2009 10:14 AM To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: Angels Please help??? Well i just got done testing my water and amoniais still at 1.0, should i go buy an amonia tablet that removes amonia? the 2 angels are still alive and eating and appear to look healthy still waiting tho. Ph is still low at 6.6 and nitrite is good. ...Jo --- On Fri, 6/26/09, Raymond Wetzel <sevenspringss@ wmconnect. com> wrote: From: Raymond Wetzel <sevenspringss@ wmconnect. com> Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Angels Please help??? To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com Date: Friday, June 26, 2009, 10:52 AM I meant to add something to this, but sent it before I thought of completing it. Anyway, in short -- it appeared as though you had a mini-cycle (like your tank was not properly cycled at the time to be able to handle the ammonia). Now, as for water changes, while it's alway best to keep your ammonia at a minimum, you don't want to remove it all physically before your ammonia-converting bacteria have had a chance to utilize it to build up their population to a proper level -- to re-cycle your tank. Then too, I don't know the pH of your tap water and how much each PWC will affect your present pH reading. As I've stated before, your fish are safe with a 1.0 ppm level of total Ammonia at a pH of 6.6. It would take quite a bit of PWCing to change your pH drastically enough so that this Ammonia would be toxic to your fish, even if your tap water were at pH 7.8. You should know though, that besides the pH affecting the toxicity of Ammonia, the temperature also plays a role in it. At 68 o, this level (1.0 ppm) of total ammonia does not become toxic until the pH falls to 7.7. At 74 o, a pH of 7.6 is required to make the Ammonia toxic (creating/convertin g enough free-Ammonia from the Ammonium) and at a temperature of 80 o, this same level of Ammonia will become toxic at pH 7.5. It will not be lethal though, until the temperature gets to 85 o at pH 7.6. This is on average as each species is affected a bit differently by Ammonia, some being a bit more intolerant than others, but it's sufficiently in the ball park. Ray --- In AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com, Joellen & Kevin Analla <anallafamily. 2001@...> wrote: > > Well as I know there is no exact amount of time for a tank to cycle it > has been set up for at least 2 mo. and before I put angels in it I > tested ammonia and it was ok. The ammonia levels have raised only > since the fish have been dieing. Well yesterday I did a partial water > change to try and lower ammonia levels. I have yet to test it this > morning to see if it helped. Jo > > --- On Thu, 6/25/09, Raymond Wetzel <sevenspringss@ ...> wrote: > > > From: Raymond Wetzel <sevenspringss@ ...> > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Angels Please help??? > To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com > Date: Thursday, June 25, 2009, 9:59 AM > > > > > > > > > Hi Amber, Going with everything I read of Jo's postings on the scenario of this whole situation, yes, I can only conclude with a good deal of certainty that here fish are dying as a result of this infection. This terrible disease was prevalent some 15 to 20 years ago, first eminating, then spreading friom the Far East. While I've lived through this period and have experienced this whole sequence of events day to day of the hobby being so adversely affected by this disease, this is not my reason for my coming to this conclusion. Devastating as it was, I am not an alarmist. > > Others here, who may never have heard of this disease (or who may have, but think this is now past history), cannot know that this disease still survives today in Angelfish from Angelfish stocks still being produced in those areas (Asia & Florida) where the disease originated and then was most prevalent. This disease was never conquered. The Far Eastern Angelfish breeders were never completely wiped out (even though extremely affected by hugh losses) to the point that they started back completely fresh with completely all new stock. The Angelfish stock that they were left with, that finally survived the onslaught due to their immunity system finally coping with this disease is the same stock they continued with -- now a necessarily stronger breeder stock for them and the Florida fish farmers, in that they have a higher immune system to be able to deal with this virus that co-exists with them in their systems. > > However, even though the juveniles from this stock (possibly the 4th > or 5th generation by now, from when this first started) are expose to this virus early on in their lives -- their immune systems having to have built up against this disease as they grew to selling size -- the stress of shipping when combined with the constant battle of their immune systems having to deal with this ever-present virus in their systems (due to its ongoing presence in their environment) is just too much for them to endure. The influences of both stresses soon take their toll, manifested as losses within 6 or 7 days for most of the stock that were subjected to the stress of shipping. Any other Angels that seemingly were not quite as affected/stressed by shipping immediately may live a short while later, but by this time the virus is now overpowering their immune system to the point of eventually (often within the month) killing them. Obviously, introducing any Angels in with these infected fish during this time of them living in limbo is to be subjecting these new Angels to a disease they've never seen and have no defence at all for, with the inevitable loss of them as well. The infected environment is just as deadly to any new Angels, even without the presence of infected fish, until this environment is disinfected. This disease still persists today -- it has never been irradiacated and is an unfortunate situation for an unsuspecting hobbyist who has no previous knowledge of it, when they buy such fish from those sources (like Walmart) which persist in selling them only because these fish are the lowest price their management can find to contract with. It's a very dangerous situation. > > Now, getting back to these other points you've brought up, which need addressing. While, as \\Steve// says, ideally no ammonia should be permitted to exist, and while Jo's ammonia level of 1.0 ppm does certainly appear to be the direct result of an uncycled tank (since ammonia has shown to build up in her tank from 0.0 ppm to 1.0 ppm, yet is not being converted to nitrite) still, with Jo's ph at between 6.5 (original post) and 6.6 (follow-up post) any and all Ammonia would be in the form or relatively harmless Ammonium -- not affecting the Angelfish detrimentally in the least -- so we can rule this out, if that's what you need done. I cannot condone the use of buffers to lower the pH either, and again go right along with \\Steve// on this. Not only as it's not at all needed (especially in this situation of maintaining Angelfish) but can lead to serious consequences such as unstable pH levels and/or even possible pH crashes as \\Steve// points out. > > Still, I see no evidence of Jo having to add any additional amounts of pH buffer between PWC's because of the buffer being exhausted, nor have I seen any high pH level readings, although there still may have been some between PWC's, which may not have been tested for. Likewise, I have fortunately not seen evidence of a pH crash, nor any possible cause for pH shock as a result of such a crash. Jo's methods of acclimating may leave more to be desired even though the concept is correct as, unless she has not given a full description, this tank water introduction to the bucket containing the fish does seem to be too abbreviated. Full acclimation requires more than one or two cups of new water over a period of 15 minutes (as I seem to perceive from her post), but it's possible she may just not have gone into the repetition of this procedure. > > In all, with taking into consideration all possible negative points > you've brought up and needed to have addressed, or that \\Steve// or I > could think of to be ruled out, I cannot see where any of these other > possibilities could enter into consideration -- especially when > realizing that these deaths were not a one-time occurance, but have > repeatedly happened with each numerous addition of new Angelfish in > the many attempts to introduce them to her tank. One might be able to > say that in isolated incidences, that a certain batch of Angelfish may > have been pH-shocked, or that another batch of Angelfish may have been > inadvertantly subjected to lethal levels of ammonia at some point -- > which appears quite remote, even if I'm reaching for straws -- but > when repeated batches of Angelfish die for no other apparent reason > there is a pattern that develops which to me has no other answer than > this Virus by what is occurring -- when looking at all other details > involved in this picture. I've seen it too many times to not ignore > it, nor mistake it for anything else. Ray > > --- In AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com, Amber Berglund <amber@> wrote: > > > > Ray are you sure that his fish are dying to this infection rather > > than dying from ammonia poisoning from an uncycled tank? Not to > > mention he used a pH adjusting buffer to lower his pH... > > This might just be a lack of experience too I would think it's > > possible at least. We should at least rule those out before rushing > > into thinking it's a serious problem right from the bat (the Angelfish infection). > > > > Amber > > > > Raymond Wetzel wrote: > > > > > > > > > By your post, it appears that you've taken the time to read over > > > my message on the topic, so you could finally understand it -- > > > which I appreciate your doing, as it will only benefit yourself. > > > Your two remaining Angelfish stand a better chance of dying a > > > premature death, and that death may come even sooner than later. I > > > have seen other hobbyists maintaining a few remnant Angels from > > > such origins after the rest of the original stocks of them had > > > perished, only to pass on within the following month (or two, at > > > the latest). You may try to return these two Angels for store > > > credit, if they'll allow it, but otherwise, you'd need to keep > > > only these two until something happens to them. > > > > > > To add any Angelfish from other sources to these two Angelfish, > > > would be to subject them to an infection that they have no > > > immunity for, with the inevitable results of their dying from this, and quite fast. > > > If you want more Angels, and if you want healthy Angels, there is > > > no other choice than to put them in a clean, disinfected tank that > > > you're sure does not contain any disease -- which requires that > > > these two Angelfish no longer inhabit this tank, one way or another. > > > > > > IF there is a better way (and I know of no other way), I would be > > > more than pleased to tell you. As for knowing that a fish will be > > > okay, I can only tell you this -- that I, nor anyone else, cannot > > > say with 100% certainty that your two remaining Angelfish are not > > > okay -- it's impossible for me to be able to do that from where I > > > am (not within reach of your fish) or without the benefit of a > > > slide smear of this fish's waste to evaluate under the microscope. > > > But ALL things you've related about these fish and their deceased > > > siblings, including their source, the suddenness of their demise > > > and the repetition of these same circumstances spells out for me > > > with enough certainty with all I've experienced and learned of > > > this very disease, that this is indeed the dreaded fatal pathogen > > > that has plagued Angelfish ongoing from a quarter century ago. > > > > > > I could choose to see your Angelfish loses as just the chance > > > results of poorer than required water conditions combined with > > > your possible inexperience with them and the luck of the draw > > > along with the inevitableness of young Angels dying en-mass for > > > unexplained reasons not unrelated to your general lack of aquarium > > > knowledge at this stage of the game -- as some here may be > > > suggesting -- but to do so would be to go against everything I've > > > learned about Angelfish in 62 years of working with them, and > > > living through the horrid period of decimation of these fish through the spread of this Virus. > > > > > > I've seen many, many cases of this virus striking Angelfish and > > > have known many Angelfish breeders who were effected by the > > > devastation of it and the experiences they've gone through during > > > the peak period when this Virus was at its worst. > > > > > > AND . . . > > > > > > I have seen in TODAY's WORLD, the EXACT same thing as you are > > > describing happening to you, of Angelfish being sold by Walmart > > > (and > > > others) which are infected by this virus and which have been > > > dropping otherwise unexplainedly like flies -- INCLUDING having > > > one or two fish temporarily survive this onslault only to died > > > within the following month. I DO NOT think this is all > > > coincidental. My brother (who had yet to learn of this disease) > > > experienced the VERY things with young Angelfish he recently > > > bought from Walmart a couple of months ago, amost word for word. > > > In his case, his lone surviving Angel lasted another 3 weeks after > > > the first ones died -- and he knows about keeping fish properly. > > > Many of my customers (fish store owners who purchase my Angelfish) > > > have told me of the quality of Angelfish (and the Virus they still > > > carry) they've bought in the recent past from both Florida and > > > directly from the Far East that just fold up on them within a > > > week's time, often resulting in complete losses -- the unaccounted > > > for ones having already been sold prior to the end of the week. > > > These sources and the Angelfish Virus they promote through selling > > > infected fish are still notorious for spreading this disease with the help of unknowing dealers and hobbyists even today. > > > > > > Of course, you do not need to believe me, but then it would be > > > folly to continue in the manner you're attempting to add Angelfish > > > to your tank in hopes they'll survive. For all we know though, > > > without having your two Angelfish analyzed, they may be the > > > healthiest Angels on earth -- But I wouldn't want to bet the farm on it! > > > > > > I suggested to you what needs to be done to succeed. You may > > > follow this advice, or you may ignore it -- that's your decision. > > > When buying from a different source, a reputable breeder who has > > > reliably supplied quality disease-free Angelfish for many years > > > simply cannot afford to risk selling diseased Angelfish, and still > > > have his business and reputation survive. IF contemplating buying > > > from such a known and reputable dealer, you need to make sure whom you are dealing with. > > > There are many reputable Angelfish breeders in existance, but with > > > your not having the experience to know which are the better ones, > > > you may not know yet who to buy from with confidence. I WILL tell > > > you that you can't expect to pay Walmart prices and still get good > > > fish. A lot of work goes into raising these Angelfish and as a > > > result these breeders will (need) to charge more, but a good > > > breeder will be fair > > > -- he does not need to price-gouge. If you're still following up > > > on this, and need further advise, there are a number of people > > > here who can best assist you with recommending breeders of quality > > > Angels. I can start by wholeheartedly recommending Steve Rybicki > > > of Angels Plus as one whom I can vouch for selling disease-free > > > Angelfish; Steve's been in the business for at least 25 years. Ray > > > > > > --- In AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com <mailto:AquaticLife > > > %40yahoogroups. com>, Joellen & Kevin Analla <anallafamily. 2001@> > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > So basically what your saying is that all fish in tank (2Angels) > > > must die then i need to disinfect all equipment then start all > > > over buying from a different source but theres no garanteen that > > > even a differant source could still get infected in that case i > > > would have to repeat process agian......Really isnt there a better > > > way, or even a way of knowing that fish will be ok . > > > > > > > > --- On Wed, 6/24/09, Raymond Wetzel <sevenspringss@ > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > From: Raymond Wetzel <sevenspringss@ > > > > > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Angels Please help??? > > > > To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com <mailto:AquaticLife > > > > %40yahoogroups. com> > > > > Date: Wednesday, June 24, 2009, 1:33 AM > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Hello Jo, So sorry you are running into this frustrating > > > > experience > > > in trying to keep Angelfish, when the species is not difficult to > > > maintain. Ordinarily, we would ask just what you meant (and will > > > still do this) when you say that your water is all testing okay. > > > When giving us any of your data concerning your water parameters, > > > we prefer to have number to be evaluate your circumstances, and > > > the actual test results in ppm (parts per million) best reflect > > > your actual conditions. If you could give us your test results for > > > pH, ammonia, nitrite and even nitrate, it could be a great help. > > > If you can provide results for temporary hardness (KH) and > > > total/general hardness (GH), this may be of further assistance to > > > us -- the more information, the better. BUT, in this particular > > > case, I do not believe it's your water quality that's at fault, even though we need to rule that out. > > > > > > > > Most unfortunately, new prospective Angelfish hobbyists will run > > > into this situation when buying from retailers who prefer > > > obtaining their Angelfish stocks indiscriminantly, possibly in an > > > effort to save money or perhaps just for the convenience. However, > > > in buying in essence what can be established as inferior stock, I > > > fail to see what they think they gain. Unfortunately too, the > > > customer (you) is too often unsuspecting of this possibility and > > > blame the deaths of these fish on themselves, when in truth it's > > > the poor stock itself that these outlets continue to retail -- > > > despite the many losses they themselves have with each re-stocking. > > > > > > > > These retailers know that they will not be alienating their > > > customers, as these customers are completely unaware that this > > > stock is inferior, and in their quest to maintain this beautiful > > > species, they repeatedly buy new stock in hopes they can keep them > > > alive. Some of the larger chain stores (and some smaller shops) > > > operate in this manner, Walmart having been one of them until they > > > gave up selling tropical fish; these stores continuing to buy > > > their Angels only from preferred sources which may include a > > > headquarter- -designated distributor, a Florida fish farm, a local > > > wholesaler that buys from either Florida or the Far East, or a Far > > > East breeding establishment- -exporter -- rather than a reputable domestic breeder. > > > > > > > > Now, getting to the root of this practice and its problem. Going > > > back some 15 years or slightly more, there was a major outbreak of > > > a horrific Angelfish Virus disease originating in the Far East, > > > decimating Angelfish stocks there as well as in this country when > > > it was introduced here through imports of that stock into this country. > > > Many domestic Angelfish breeders in this country were wiped out or > > > at least partially effected, not suspecting this problem, and > > > mixed that stock with theirs. The problem didn't stop there in > > > this country as a good number of the Florida fish farmers also > > > introduced this diseased Asian stock of Angelfish to their > > > hatcheries in efforts to strengthen their own stocks with "new > > > blood," not yet knowing the consequences they would have to pay. > > > > > > > > Gradually, this disease was finally contained although never > > > completely cured. Those Asian stocks that survived were > > > strengthened by natural selection to be able to remain viable > > > while still carrying th Virus as a latent disease always present > > > but under control of these latest Angelfish's adapted immune > > > systems. This same adaptation of the Angelfish's immune system to > > > contain this Virus as of late, also emerged from those Florida > > > fish farm's stocks which were similarly effected. > > > > > > > > As a result, most any Angelfish derived today from either those > > > effected Florida fish farms or those Far Eastern > > > hatchery/exporters carry this Virus as a weaker (as controlled now > > > by these Angels' new but limited immunity), yet still viable > > > disease still capable of overtaking the Angelfish as soon as > > > receieves enough stress. This shared (but not mutually beneficial > > > where the fish is concerned) existance is called "symbiosis," and > > > is seen also in many Cichlids -- including Angelfish -- as > > > Hexamita, where this protozoan resides in a latent condition in > > > the fish's intestine, only to overtake the fish when the fish experiences sufficient stress for it to do so. > > > > > > > > So, now when these Angelfish (carrying this disease) reach your > > > local fish store, they look fine at first and appear most healthy. > > > However, the stress of shipping soon takes its toll over the next > > > week as the disease now devastates these stressed and weakened > > > fish. These fish are not expected to last much more than an > > > average of 6 or 7 days as a result of what happens with them. > > > Likewise, many (most?) of the same fish in these stores that stock > > > them soon die also (they are KNOWN to fold up), but the > > > storekeeper has still made his profit and has "satisfied" his > > > customers, which causes them to keep coming back to those stores. > > > > > > > > If any of this rings a bell for you, you may finally be > > > understanding what's happening with your Angelfish. A few, such as > > > the two you have that survived so far will live for an > > > undetermined period of time, but their days are still numbered > > > (could live for another few weeks or so). If you still want to > > > keep Angelfish, you cannot continue to buy them from this present > > > source as they'll meet the same fate, nor can you add any other > > > Angelfish to this tank from a different source as they'll become > > > infected. I really hate to have to suggest this, and I don't know > > > if you have any other species of fish presently in this tank, but > > > before you add any more Angels -- and they MUST be from a > > > reputable domestic breeder -- this tank and all its equipment must > > > be disinfected after these two remaining Angels secumb. I hope > > > this whole scenario of events as pertains to Angelfish has been at > > > least enlightening for you, and will serve to assist you in the > > > future (we'll > > > > still be here to help). I regret that since you most probably > > > > have > > > introduced disease-carrying Angelfish unknowingly, that you'll > > > have a long road ahead of you in maintaining your goal, but at > > > least now you know what to expect. Please keep us posted, Ray > > > > > > > > --- In AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com, "anallafamily. 2001" > > > <anallafamily. 2001@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > I'm new to the group so just let me know if I say or do > > > > > something > > > not right...... > > > > > My Question.... I wanted to start up an angel tank so I have a > > > 55gal set up.. I keep buying 5 angels at a time and they keep > > > dying slowly but surely.. I think altogether I have bought 16 > > > Angels and I have managed to get 2 to live for at least 6 days > > > now. I have plenty of filtration and water flow, I have ph at 6.5 > > > and water is all testing ok... So what am I doing wrong? and > > > should I go get more since I got 2 to live uhhhhhh What do I do I > > > feel like I want to give up but I really thought they were such a beautiful fish. > > > > > Please Help Jo.. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 41465	From: anallafamily.2001	Date: 6/26/2009
Subject: undergravel filters?

I recently purchased a 75 gal tank off of craigslist and it came with these plastic undergravel filter plate things...I did alittle invastigating and there are alot of pros/cons with useing them . I personally have never used before. Whats the scoop are they to much of a hassel and what kind of filter would be needed.? Jo

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 41466	From: Eric Roberts	Date: 6/26/2009
Subject: Re: O/T - PC Malfunctions

No there is no fuse in a computer...you surge protector can go bad causing it to trip off at much lighter loads than normal. Try plugging the computer directly into the wall and see if it shuts down on its own. if it doesn't then the powerstip is the cause. If it does shut down still, more than likely you have a faulty fan on your CPU or video card and if those overheat, most computers will shut the system down to prevent damage. Eric On Fri, Jun 26, 2009 at 11:50 AM, Raymond Wetzel < sevenspringss@...> wrote: > > > Does anyone (Lenny, \\Steve//) know if there is a circuit overload (fuse?) > inside of computers that may get to be faulty, or can a overload-protection > power strip go bad to the point of shutting itself off for no reason? I've > been trying to reply to recent posts, some which I've been successful with > and some that I had to re-write, due to 'puter malfunction. I've been > unsuccessful in replying to one of Jasmine's messages from yesterday morning > and just now Joellen's most recent message. I will be partly into writing a > reply, when the screen goes black for about 3 seconds as though someone > pulled the plug, then starts re-booting itself. Naturally all is lost at > that time. This is a new one that's it's added to its bag of tricks, but one > that's getting increasingly more frequent. Is there a fix I can do, like > replacing a circuit breaker, or does this machine need the permanent fix > (trash)? Thanks guys, Ray > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 41467	From: Raymond Wetzel	Date: 6/26/2009
Subject: Re: Angels Please help???

It would be nice if it turned out that the Virus was not at fault, and I do wish that's the case, even though I still feel that this is the problem. IF you were to add Angels from a different source . . . and IF your two Angels do have the Virus, any new Angels will never be safe from contracting the Virus as long as these two Angels (that very possibly are carrying this Virus) are in the same tank and carrying the disease -- and/or, as long as you maintain the tank without disinfecting it (regardless of the presence of the 2 Angels or not) -- unless you're perfectly sure there is no Virus. When you do get any new Angels, they should first be quarantined, as you should do with any other fish. Then, when you add any new Angels to this tank, add them cautiously, no more than one or two at a time, and observe them for several weeks before adding any more, if these first new ones don't come down with the disease. Ray --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, Joellen & Kevin Analla <anallafamily.2001@...> wrote: > > nitrite is at 0.0...im sorry. So because Ray says its a virus that killed all but 2 angels, how long should i wait before trying to add more from a different source of course....Jo > > --- On Fri, 6/26/09, Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@...> wrote: > > > From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@...> > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: Angels Please help??? > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Date: Friday, June 26, 2009, 12:37 PM > > > > > > > > > As Ray has stated, your ammonia level of 1.0, at pH 6.6, is not toxic or > even harmful to them, unless your tank water is REALLY warm. As long as it > is around 78-80F, then you are OK. The toxicity of ammonia is affected by > pH and temperature, the higher the pH and higher the temperature, the more > ammonia becomes toxic. Here is a site that has charts showing the toxicity > level of ammonia at the various pH levels. > http://dataguru. org/misc/ aquarium/ AmmoniaTox. html > > When you say "nitrite is good", what is the actual test result? Anything > over 0.0ppm is NOT good. > > All of this said, it's still best that a fish tank be fully cycled when > adding new fish and that the ammonia/nitrite levels be monitored on a daily > basis after adding new fish to make sure the "Cycle" is able to keep up with > the added bioload. If the ammonia/nitrite start to spike to dangerous > levels, then PWC's would be needed. Adding a pinch of salt, per 10G, will > also help to prevent nitrite poisoning (brown blood disorder) during these > cycling issues. > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com > (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right > side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com [mailto:AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com] On > Behalf Of Joellen & Kevin Analla > Sent: Friday, June 26, 2009 10:14 AM > To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: Angels Please help??? > > Well i just got done testing my water and amoniais still at 1.0, should i go > buy an amonia tablet that removes amonia? the 2 angels are still alive and > eating and appear to look healthy still waiting tho. Ph is still low at 6.6 > and nitrite is good. ...Jo > > --- On Fri, 6/26/09, Raymond Wetzel <sevenspringss@ wmconnect. com> wrote: > > From: Raymond Wetzel <sevenspringss@ wmconnect. com> > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Angels Please help??? > To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com > Date: Friday, June 26, 2009, 10:52 AM > > I meant to add something to this, but sent it before I thought of completing > it. Anyway, in short -- it appeared as though you had a mini-cycle (like > your tank was not properly cycled at the time to be able to handle the > ammonia). > > Now, as for water changes, while it's alway best to keep your ammonia at a > minimum, you don't want to remove it all physically before your > ammonia-converting bacteria have had a chance to utilize it to build up > their population to a proper level -- to re-cycle your tank. > > Then too, I don't know the pH of your tap water and how much each PWC will > affect your present pH reading. As I've stated before, your fish are safe > with a 1.0 ppm level of total Ammonia at a pH of 6.6. It would take quite a > bit of PWCing to change your pH drastically enough so that this Ammonia > would be toxic to your fish, even if your tap water were at pH 7.8. You > should know though, that besides the pH affecting the toxicity of Ammonia, > the temperature also plays a role in it. > > At 68 o, this level (1.0 ppm) of total ammonia does not become toxic until > the pH falls to 7.7. At 74 o, a pH of 7.6 is required to make the Ammonia > toxic (creating/convertin g enough free-Ammonia from the Ammonium) and at a > temperature of 80 o, this same level of Ammonia will become toxic at pH 7.5. > It will not be lethal though, until the temperature gets to 85 o at pH 7.6. > This is on average as each species is affected a bit differently by Ammonia, > some being a bit more intolerant than others, but it's sufficiently in the > ball park. Ray > > --- In AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com, Joellen & Kevin Analla <anallafamily. > 2001@> wrote: > > > > Well as I know there is no exact amount of time for a tank to cycle it > > has been set up for at least 2 mo. and before I put angels in it I > > tested ammonia and it was ok. The ammonia levels have raised only > > since the fish have been dieing. Well yesterday I did a partial water > > change to try and lower ammonia levels. I have yet to test it this > > morning to see if it helped. Jo > > > > --- On Thu, 6/25/09, Raymond Wetzel <sevenspringss@ ...> wrote: > > > > > > From: Raymond Wetzel <sevenspringss@ ...> > > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Angels Please help??? > > To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com > > Date: Thursday, June 25, 2009, 9:59 AM > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Hi Amber, Going with everything I read of Jo's postings on the scenario of > this whole situation, yes, I can only conclude with a good deal of certainty > that here fish are dying as a result of this infection. This terrible > disease was prevalent some 15 to 20 years ago, first eminating, then > spreading friom the Far East. While I've lived through this period and have > experienced this whole sequence of events day to day of the hobby being so > adversely affected by this disease, this is not my reason for my coming to > this conclusion. Devastating as it was, I am not an alarmist. > > > > Others here, who may never have heard of this disease (or who may have, > but think this is now past history), cannot know that this disease still > survives today in Angelfish from Angelfish stocks still being produced in > those areas (Asia & Florida) where the disease originated and then was most > prevalent. This disease was never conquered. The Far Eastern Angelfish > breeders were never completely wiped out (even though extremely affected by > hugh losses) to the point that they started back completely fresh with > completely all new stock. The Angelfish stock that they were left with, that > finally survived the onslaught due to their immunity system finally coping > with this disease is the same stock they continued with -- now a necessarily > stronger breeder stock for them and the Florida fish farmers, in that they > have a higher immune system to be able to deal with this virus that > co-exists with them in their systems. > > > > However, even though the juveniles from this stock (possibly the 4th > > or 5th generation by now, from when this first started) are expose to this > virus early on in their lives -- their immune systems having to have built > up against this disease as they grew to selling size -- the stress of > shipping when combined with the constant battle of their immune systems > having to deal with this ever-present virus in their systems (due to its > ongoing presence in their environment) is just too much for them to endure. > The influences of both stresses soon take their toll, manifested as losses > within 6 or 7 days for most of the stock that were subjected to the stress > of shipping. Any other Angels that seemingly were not quite as > affected/stressed by shipping immediately may live a short while later, but > by this time the virus is now overpowering their immune system to the point > of eventually (often within the month) killing them. Obviously, introducing > any Angels in with these infected fish during this time of them living in > limbo is to be subjecting these new Angels to a disease they've never seen > and have no defence at all for, with the inevitable loss of them as well. > The infected environment is just as deadly to any new Angels, even without > the presence of infected fish, until this environment is disinfected. This > disease still persists today -- it has never been irradiacated and is an > unfortunate situation for an unsuspecting hobbyist who has no previous > knowledge of it, when they buy such fish from those sources (like Walmart) > which persist in selling them only because these fish are the lowest price > their management can find to contract with. It's a very dangerous situation. > > > > Now, getting back to these other points you've brought up, which need > addressing. While, as \\Steve// says, ideally no ammonia should be permitted > to exist, and while Jo's ammonia level of 1.0 ppm does certainly appear to > be the direct result of an uncycled tank (since ammonia has shown to build > up in her tank from 0.0 ppm to 1.0 ppm, yet is not being converted to > nitrite) still, with Jo's ph at between 6.5 (original post) and 6.6 > (follow-up post) any and all Ammonia would be in the form or relatively > harmless Ammonium -- not affecting the Angelfish detrimentally in the least > -- so we can rule this out, if that's what you need done. I cannot condone > the use of buffers to lower the pH either, and again go right along with > \\Steve// on this. Not only as it's not at all needed (especially in this > situation of maintaining Angelfish) but can lead to serious consequences > such as unstable pH levels and/or even possible pH crashes as \\Steve// > points out. > > > > Still, I see no evidence of Jo having to add any additional amounts of pH > buffer between PWC's because of the buffer being exhausted, nor have I seen > any high pH level readings, although there still may have been some between > PWC's, which may not have been tested for. Likewise, I have fortunately not > seen evidence of a pH crash, nor any possible cause for pH shock as a result > of such a crash. Jo's methods of acclimating may leave more to be desired > even though the concept is correct as, unless she has not given a full > description, this tank water introduction to the bucket containing the fish > does seem to be too abbreviated. Full acclimation requires more than one or > two cups of new water over a period of 15 minutes (as I seem to perceive > from her post), but it's possible she may just not have gone into the > repetition of this procedure. > > > > In all, with taking into consideration all possible negative points > > you've brought up and needed to have addressed, or that \\Steve// or I > > could think of to be ruled out, I cannot see where any of these other > > possibilities could enter into consideration -- especially when > > realizing that these deaths were not a one-time occurance, but have > > repeatedly happened with each numerous addition of new Angelfish in > > the many attempts to introduce them to her tank. One might be able to > > say that in isolated incidences, that a certain batch of Angelfish may > > have been pH-shocked, or that another batch of Angelfish may have been > > inadvertantly subjected to lethal levels of ammonia at some point -- > > which appears quite remote, even if I'm reaching for straws -- but > > when repeated batches of Angelfish die for no other apparent reason > > there is a pattern that develops which to me has no other answer than > > this Virus by what is occurring -- when looking at all other details > > involved in this picture. I've seen it too many times to not ignore > > it, nor mistake it for anything else. Ray > > > > --- In AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com, Amber Berglund <amber@> wrote: > > > > > > Ray are you sure that his fish are dying to this infection rather > > > than dying from ammonia poisoning from an uncycled tank? Not to > > > mention he used a pH adjusting buffer to lower his pH... > > > This might just be a lack of experience too I would think it's > > > possible at least. We should at least rule those out before rushing > > > into thinking it's a serious problem right from the bat (the Angelfish > infection). > > > > > > Amber > > > > > > Raymond Wetzel wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > By your post, it appears that you've taken the time to read over > > > > my message on the topic, so you could finally understand it -- > > > > which I appreciate your doing, as it will only benefit yourself. > > > > Your two remaining Angelfish stand a better chance of dying a > > > > premature death, and that death may come even sooner than later. I > > > > have seen other hobbyists maintaining a few remnant Angels from > > > > such origins after the rest of the original stocks of them had > > > > perished, only to pass on within the following month (or two, at > > > > the latest). You may try to return these two Angels for store > > > > credit, if they'll allow it, but otherwise, you'd need to keep > > > > only these two until something happens to them. > > > > > > > > To add any Angelfish from other sources to these two Angelfish, > > > > would be to subject them to an infection that they have no > > > > immunity for, with the inevitable results of their dying from this, > and quite fast. > > > > If you want more Angels, and if you want healthy Angels, there is > > > > no other choice than to put them in a clean, disinfected tank that > > > > you're sure does not contain any disease -- which requires that > > > > these two Angelfish no longer inhabit this tank, one way or another. > > > > > > > > IF there is a better way (and I know of no other way), I would be > > > > more than pleased to tell you. As for knowing that a fish will be > > > > okay, I can only tell you this -- that I, nor anyone else, cannot > > > > say with 100% certainty that your two remaining Angelfish are not > > > > okay -- it's impossible for me to be able to do that from where I > > > > am (not within reach of your fish) or without the benefit of a > > > > slide smear of this fish's waste to evaluate under the microscope. > > > > But ALL things you've related about these fish and their deceased > > > > siblings, including their source, the suddenness of their demise > > > > and the repetition of these same circumstances spells out for me > > > > with enough certainty with all I've experienced and learned of > > > > this very disease, that this is indeed the dreaded fatal pathogen > > > > that has plagued Angelfish ongoing from a quarter century ago. > > > > > > > > I could choose to see your Angelfish loses as just the chance > > > > results of poorer than required water conditions combined with > > > > your possible inexperience with them and the luck of the draw > > > > along with the inevitableness of young Angels dying en-mass for > > > > unexplained reasons not unrelated to your general lack of aquarium > > > > knowledge at this stage of the game -- as some here may be > > > > suggesting -- but to do so would be to go against everything I've > > > > learned about Angelfish in 62 years of working with them, and > > > > living through the horrid period of decimation of these fish through > the spread of this Virus. > > > > > > > > I've seen many, many cases of this virus striking Angelfish and > > > > have known many Angelfish breeders who were effected by the > > > > devastation of it and the experiences they've gone through during > > > > the peak period when this Virus was at its worst. > > > > > > > > AND . . . > > > > > > > > I have seen in TODAY's WORLD, the EXACT same thing as you are > > > > describing happening to you, of Angelfish being sold by Walmart > > > > (and > > > > others) which are infected by this virus and which have been > > > > dropping otherwise unexplainedly like flies -- INCLUDING having > > > > one or two fish temporarily survive this onslault only to died > > > > within the following month. I DO NOT think this is all > > > > coincidental. My brother (who had yet to learn of this disease) > > > > experienced the VERY things with young Angelfish he recently > > > > bought from Walmart a couple of months ago, amost word for word. > > > > In his case, his lone surviving Angel lasted another 3 weeks after > > > > the first ones died -- and he knows about keeping fish properly. > > > > Many of my customers (fish store owners who purchase my Angelfish) > > > > have told me of the quality of Angelfish (and the Virus they still > > > > carry) they've bought in the recent past from both Florida and > > > > directly from the Far East that just fold up on them within a > > > > week's time, often resulting in complete losses -- the unaccounted > > > > for ones having already been sold prior to the end of the week. > > > > These sources and the Angelfish Virus they promote through selling > > > > infected fish are still notorious for spreading this disease with the > help of unknowing dealers and hobbyists even today. > > > > > > > > Of course, you do not need to believe me, but then it would be > > > > folly to continue in the manner you're attempting to add Angelfish > > > > to your tank in hopes they'll survive. For all we know though, > > > > without having your two Angelfish analyzed, they may be the > > > > healthiest Angels on earth -- But I wouldn't want to bet the farm on > it! > > > > > > > > I suggested to you what needs to be done to succeed. You may > > > > follow this advice, or you may ignore it -- that's your decision. > > > > When buying from a different source, a reputable breeder who has > > > > reliably supplied quality disease-free Angelfish for many years > > > > simply cannot afford to risk selling diseased Angelfish, and still > > > > have his business and reputation survive. IF contemplating buying > > > > from such a known and reputable dealer, you need to make sure whom you > are dealing with. > > > > There are many reputable Angelfish breeders in existance, but with > > > > your not having the experience to know which are the better ones, > > > > you may not know yet who to buy from with confidence. I WILL tell > > > > you that you can't expect to pay Walmart prices and still get good > > > > fish. A lot of work goes into raising these Angelfish and as a > > > > result these breeders will (need) to charge more, but a good > > > > breeder will be fair > > > > -- he does not need to price-gouge. If you're still following up > > > > on this, and need further advise, there are a number of people > > > > here who can best assist you with recommending breeders of quality > > > > Angels. I can start by wholeheartedly recommending Steve Rybicki > > > > of Angels Plus as one whom I can vouch for selling disease-free > > > > Angelfish; Steve's been in the business for at least 25 years. Ray > > > > > > > > --- In AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com <mailto:AquaticLife > > > > %40yahoogroups. com>, Joellen & Kevin Analla <anallafamily. 2001@> > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > So basically what your saying is that all fish in tank (2Angels) > > > > must die then i need to disinfect all equipment then start all > > > > over buying from a different source but theres no garanteen that > > > > even a differant source could still get infected in that case i > > > > would have to repeat process agian......Really isnt there a better > > > > way, or even a way of knowing that fish will be ok . > > > > > > > > > > --- On Wed, 6/24/09, Raymond Wetzel <sevenspringss@ > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > From: Raymond Wetzel <sevenspringss@ > > > > > > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Angels Please help??? > > > > > To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com <mailto:AquaticLife > > > > > %40yahoogroups. com> > > > > > Date: Wednesday, June 24, 2009, 1:33 AM > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Hello Jo, So sorry you are running into this frustrating > > > > > experience > > > > in trying to keep Angelfish, when the species is not difficult to > > > > maintain. Ordinarily, we would ask just what you meant (and will > > > > still do this) when you say that your water is all testing okay. > > > > When giving us any of your data concerning your water parameters, > > > > we prefer to have number to be evaluate your circumstances, and > > > > the actual test results in ppm (parts per million) best reflect > > > > your actual conditions. If you could give us your test results for > > > > pH, ammonia, nitrite and even nitrate, it could be a great help. > > > > If you can provide results for temporary hardness (KH) and > > > > total/general hardness (GH), this may be of further assistance to > > > > us -- the more information, the better. BUT, in this particular > > > > case, I do not believe it's your water quality that's at fault, even > though we need to rule that out. > > > > > > > > > > Most unfortunately, new prospective Angelfish hobbyists will run > > > > into this situation when buying from retailers who prefer > > > > obtaining their Angelfish stocks indiscriminantly, possibly in an > > > > effort to save money or perhaps just for the convenience. However, > > > > in buying in essence what can be established as inferior stock, I > > > > fail to see what they think they gain. Unfortunately too, the > > > > customer (you) is too often unsuspecting of this possibility and > > > > blame the deaths of these fish on themselves, when in truth it's > > > > the poor stock itself that these outlets continue to retail -- > > > > despite the many losses they themselves have with each re-stocking. > > > > > > > > > > These retailers know that they will not be alienating their > > > > customers, as these customers are completely unaware that this > > > > stock is inferior, and in their quest to maintain this beautiful > > > > species, they repeatedly buy new stock in hopes they can keep them > > > > alive. Some of the larger chain stores (and some smaller shops) > > > > operate in this manner, Walmart having been one of them until they > > > > gave up selling tropical fish; these stores continuing to buy > > > > their Angels only from preferred sources which may include a > > > > headquarter- -designated distributor, a Florida fish farm, a local > > > > wholesaler that buys from either Florida or the Far East, or a Far > > > > East breeding establishment- -exporter -- rather than a reputable > domestic breeder. > > > > > > > > > > Now, getting to the root of this practice and its problem. Going > > > > back some 15 years or slightly more, there was a major outbreak of > > > > a horrific Angelfish Virus disease originating in the Far East, > > > > decimating Angelfish stocks there as well as in this country when > > > > it was introduced here through imports of that stock into this > country. > > > > Many domestic Angelfish breeders in this country were wiped out or > > > > at least partially effected, not suspecting this problem, and > > > > mixed that stock with theirs. The problem didn't stop there in > > > > this country as a good number of the Florida fish farmers also > > > > introduced this diseased Asian stock of Angelfish to their > > > > hatcheries in efforts to strengthen their own stocks with "new > > > > blood," not yet knowing the consequences they would have to pay. > > > > > > > > > > Gradually, this disease was finally contained although never > > > > completely cured. Those Asian stocks that survived were > > > > strengthened by natural selection to be able to remain viable > > > > while still carrying th Virus as a latent disease always present > > > > but under control of these latest Angelfish's adapted immune > > > > systems. This same adaptation of the Angelfish's immune system to > > > > contain this Virus as of late, also emerged from those Florida > > > > fish farm's stocks which were similarly effected. > > > > > > > > > > As a result, most any Angelfish derived today from either those > > > > effected Florida fish farms or those Far Eastern > > > > hatchery/exporters carry this Virus as a weaker (as controlled now > > > > by these Angels' new but limited immunity), yet still viable > > > > disease still capable of overtaking the Angelfish as soon as > > > > receieves enough stress. This shared (but not mutually beneficial > > > > where the fish is concerned) existance is called "symbiosis," and > > > > is seen also in many Cichlids -- including Angelfish -- as > > > > Hexamita, where this protozoan resides in a latent condition in > > > > the fish's intestine, only to overtake the fish when the fish > experiences sufficient stress for it to do so. > > > > > > > > > > So, now when these Angelfish (carrying this disease) reach your > > > > local fish store, they look fine at first and appear most healthy. > > > > However, the stress of shipping soon takes its toll over the next > > > > week as the disease now devastates these stressed and weakened > > > > fish. These fish are not expected to last much more than an > > > > average of 6 or 7 days as a result of what happens with them. > > > > Likewise, many (most?) of the same fish in these stores that stock > > > > them soon die also (they are KNOWN to fold up), but the > > > > storekeeper has still made his profit and has "satisfied" his > > > > customers, which causes them to keep coming back to those stores. > > > > > > > > > > If any of this rings a bell for you, you may finally be > > > > understanding what's happening with your Angelfish. A few, such as > > > > the two you have that survived so far will live for an > > > > undetermined period of time, but their days are still numbered > > > > (could live for another few weeks or so). If you still want to > > > > keep Angelfish, you cannot continue to buy them from this present > > > > source as they'll meet the same fate, nor can you add any other > > > > Angelfish to this tank from a different source as they'll become > > > > infected. I really hate to have to suggest this, and I don't know > > > > if you have any other species of fish presently in this tank, but > > > > before you add any more Angels -- and they MUST be from a > > > > reputable domestic breeder -- this tank and all its equipment must > > > > be disinfected after these two remaining Angels secumb. I hope > > > > this whole scenario of events as pertains to Angelfish has been at > > > > least enlightening for you, and will serve to assist you in the > > > > future (we'll > > > > > still be here to help). I regret that since you most probably > > > > > have > > > > introduced disease-carrying Angelfish unknowingly, that you'll > > > > have a long road ahead of you in maintaining your goal, but at > > > > least now you know what to expect. Please keep us posted, Ray > > > > > > > > > > --- In AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com, "anallafamily. 2001" > > > > <anallafamily. 2001@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > I'm new to the group so just let me know if I say or do > > > > > > something > > > > not right...... > > > > > > My Question.... I wanted to start up an angel tank so I have a > > > > 55gal set up.. I keep buying 5 angels at a time and they keep > > > > dying slowly but surely.. I think altogether I have bought 16 > > > > Angels and I have managed to get 2 to live for at least 6 days > > > > now. I have plenty of filtration and water flow, I have ph at 6.5 > > > > and water is all testing ok... So what am I doing wrong? and > > > > should I go get more since I got 2 to live uhhhhhh What do I do I > > > > feel like I want to give up but I really thought they were such a > beautiful fish. > > > > > > Please Help Jo.. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 41468	From: Raymond Wetzel	Date: 6/26/2009
Subject: Re: O/T - PC Malfunctions

Thank you for your advice, Eric. I was told something similar about a possible faulty fan by ole Bill, so your post certainly backs this up. Makes sense as it generally happens after about two hours of operation -- giving the machine plenty of time to heat up if the fan isn't operating. I'll check that out and check out the powerstrip as well. Thanks again, Ray --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, Eric Roberts <woad@...> wrote: > > No there is no fuse in a computer...you surge protector can go bad causing > it to trip off at much lighter loads than normal. Try plugging the computer > directly into the wall and see if it shuts down on its own. if it doesn't > then the powerstip is the cause. If it does shut down still, more than > likely you have a faulty fan on your CPU or video card and if those > overheat, most computers will shut the system down to prevent damage. > > Eric > > On Fri, Jun 26, 2009 at 11:50 AM, Raymond Wetzel < > sevenspringss@...> wrote: > > > > > > > Does anyone (Lenny, \\Steve//) know if there is a circuit overload (fuse?) > > inside of computers that may get to be faulty, or can a overload-protection > > power strip go bad to the point of shutting itself off for no reason? I've > > been trying to reply to recent posts, some which I've been successful with > > and some that I had to re-write, due to 'puter malfunction. I've been > > unsuccessful in replying to one of Jasmine's messages from yesterday morning > > and just now Joellen's most recent message. I will be partly into writing a > > reply, when the screen goes black for about 3 seconds as though someone > > pulled the plug, then starts re-booting itself. Naturally all is lost at > > that time. This is a new one that's it's added to its bag of tricks, but one > > that's getting increasingly more frequent. Is there a fix I can do, like > > replacing a circuit breaker, or does this machine need the permanent fix > > (trash)? Thanks guys, Ray > > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 41469	From: Raymond Wetzel	Date: 6/26/2009
Subject: Re: Angels Please help???

With the dead Angelfish being removed, and if your cycle is working, you should see a reduction in the ammonia when you test it, unless there's something else adding to this waste. Actually, it would have been of more benefit to you if you had tested the water right after you did the PWC, and then again today to see if there were any difference. Check it out today though, and let us know the results. Ray --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, Joellen & Kevin Analla <anallafamily.2001@...> wrote: > > Well as I know there is no exact amount of time for a tank to cycle it has been set up for at least 2 mo. and before i put angels in it i tested amonia and it was ok. The amonia levels have raised only since the fish have been dieing. Well yesterday i did a partial water change to try and lower amonia levels. I have yet to test it this morning to see if it helped. Jo > > --- On Thu, 6/25/09, Raymond Wetzel <sevenspringss@...> wrote: > > > From: Raymond Wetzel <sevenspringss@...> > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Angels Please help??? > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Date: Thursday, June 25, 2009, 9:59 AM > > > > > > > > > Hi Amber, Going with everything I read of Jo's postings on the scenario of this whole situation, yes, I can only conclude with a good deal of certainty that here fish are dying as a result of this infection. This terrible disease was prevalent some 15 to 20 years ago, first eminating, then spreading friom the Far East. While I've lived through this period and have experienced this whole sequence of events day to day of the hobby being so adversely affected by this disease, this is not my reason for my coming to this conclusion. Devastating as it was, I am not an alarmist. > > Others here, who may never have heard of this disease (or who may have, but think this is now past history), cannot know that this disease still survives today in Angelfish from Angelfish stocks still being produced in those areas (Asia & Florida) where the disease originated and then was most prevalent. This disease was never conquered. The Far Eastern Angelfish breeders were never completely wiped out (even though extremely affected by hugh losses) to the point that they started back completely fresh with completely all new stock. The Angelfish stock that they were left with, that finally survived the onslaught due to their immunity system finally coping with this disease is the same stock they continued with -- now a necessarily stronger breeder stock for them and the Florida fish farmers, in that they have a higher immune system to be able to deal with this virus that co-exists with them in their systems. > > However, even though the juveniles from this stock (possibly the 4th or 5th generation by now, from when this first started) are expose to this virus early on in their lives -- their immune systems having to have built up against this disease as they grew to selling size -- the stress of shipping when combined with the constant battle of their immune systems having to deal with this ever-present virus in their systems (due to its ongoing presence in their environment) is just too much for them to endure. The influences of both stresses soon take their toll, manifested as losses within 6 or 7 days for most of the stock that were subjected to the stress of shipping. Any other Angels that seemingly were not quite as affected/stressed by shipping immediately may live a short while later, but by this time the virus is now overpowering their immune system to the point of eventually (often within the month) killing them. Obviously, introducing any Angels in > with these infected fish during this time of them living in limbo is to be subjecting these new Angels to a disease they've never seen and have no defence at all for, with the inevitable loss of them as well. The infected environment is just as deadly to any new Angels, even without the presence of infected fish, until this environment is disinfected. This disease still persists today -- it has never been irradiacated and is an unfortunate situation for an unsuspecting hobbyist who has no previous knowledge of it, when they buy such fish from those sources (like Walmart) which persist in selling them only because these fish are the lowest price their management can find to contract with. It's a very dangerous situation. > > Now, getting back to these other points you've brought up, which need addressing. While, as \\Steve// says, ideally no ammonia should be permitted to exist, and while Jo's ammonia level of 1.0 ppm does certainly appear to be the direct result of an uncycled tank (since ammonia has shown to build up in her tank from 0.0 ppm to 1.0 ppm, yet is not being converted to nitrite) still, with Jo's ph at between 6.5 (original post) and 6.6 (follow-up post) any and all Ammonia would be in the form or relatively harmless Ammonium -- not affecting the Angelfish detrimentally in the least -- so we can rule this out, if that's what you need done. I cannot condone the use of buffers to lower the pH either, and again go right along with \\Steve// on this. Not only as it's not at all needed (especially in this situation of maintaining Angelfish) but can lead to serious consequences such as unstable pH levels and/or even possible pH crashes as \\Steve// points out. > > Still, I see no evidence of Jo having to add any additional amounts of pH buffer between PWC's because of the buffer being exhausted, nor have I seen any high pH level readings, although there still may have been some between PWC's, which may not have been tested for. Likewise, I have fortunately not seen evidence of a pH crash, nor any possible cause for pH shock as a result of such a crash. Jo's methods of acclimating may leave more to be desired even though the concept is correct as, unless she has not given a full description, this tank water introduction to the bucket containing the fish does seem to be too abbreviated. Full acclimation requires more than one or two cups of new water over a period of 15 minutes (as I seem to perceive from her post), but it's possible she may just not have gone into the repetition of this procedure. > > In all, with taking into consideration all possible negative points you've brought up and needed to have addressed, or that \\Steve// or I could think of to be ruled out, I cannot see where any of these other possibilities could enter into consideration -- especially when realizing that these deaths were not a one-time occurance, but have repeatedly happened with each numerous addition of new Angelfish in the many attempts to introduce them to her tank. One might be able to say that in isolated incidences, that a certain batch of Angelfish may have been pH-shocked, or that another batch of Angelfish may have been inadvertantly subjected to lethal levels of ammonia at some point -- which appears quite remote, even if I'm reaching for straws -- but when repeated batches of Angelfish die for no other apparent reason there is a pattern that develops which to me has no other answer than this Virus by what is occurring -- when looking at all other details > involved in this picture. I've seen it too many times to not ignore it, nor mistake it for anything else. Ray > > --- In AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com, Amber Berglund <amber@> wrote: > > > > Ray are you sure that his fish are dying to this infection rather than > > dying from ammonia poisoning from an uncycled tank? Not to mention he > > used a pH adjusting buffer to lower his pH... > > This might just be a lack of experience too I would think it's possible > > at least. We should at least rule those out before rushing into thinking > > it's a serious problem right from the bat (the Angelfish infection). > > > > Amber > > > > Raymond Wetzel wrote: > > > > > > > > > By your post, it appears that you've taken the time to read over my > > > message on the topic, so you could finally understand it -- which I > > > appreciate your doing, as it will only benefit yourself. Your two > > > remaining Angelfish stand a better chance of dying a premature death, > > > and that death may come even sooner than later. I have seen other > > > hobbyists maintaining a few remnant Angels from such origins after the > > > rest of the original stocks of them had perished, only to pass on > > > within the following month (or two, at the latest). You may try to > > > return these two Angels for store credit, if they'll allow it, but > > > otherwise, you'd need to keep only these two until something happens > > > to them. > > > > > > To add any Angelfish from other sources to these two Angelfish, would > > > be to subject them to an infection that they have no immunity for, > > > with the inevitable results of their dying from this, and quite fast. > > > If you want more Angels, and if you want healthy Angels, there is no > > > other choice than to put them in a clean, disinfected tank that you're > > > sure does not contain any disease -- which requires that these two > > > Angelfish no longer inhabit this tank, one way or another. > > > > > > IF there is a better way (and I know of no other way), I would be more > > > than pleased to tell you. As for knowing that a fish will be okay, I > > > can only tell you this -- that I, nor anyone else, cannot say with > > > 100% certainty that your two remaining Angelfish are not okay -- it's > > > impossible for me to be able to do that from where I am (not within > > > reach of your fish) or without the benefit of a slide smear of this > > > fish's waste to evaluate under the microscope. But ALL things you've > > > related about these fish and their deceased siblings, including their > > > source, the suddenness of their demise and the repetition of these > > > same circumstances spells out for me with enough certainty with all > > > I've experienced and learned of this very disease, that this is indeed > > > the dreaded fatal pathogen that has plagued Angelfish ongoing from a > > > quarter century ago. > > > > > > I could choose to see your Angelfish loses as just the chance results > > > of poorer than required water conditions combined with your possible > > > inexperience with them and the luck of the draw along with the > > > inevitableness of young Angels dying en-mass for unexplained reasons > > > not unrelated to your general lack of aquarium knowledge at this stage > > > of the game -- as some here may be suggesting -- but to do so would be > > > to go against everything I've learned about Angelfish in 62 years of > > > working with them, and living through the horrid period of decimation > > > of these fish through the spread of this Virus. > > > > > > I've seen many, many cases of this virus striking Angelfish and have > > > known many Angelfish breeders who were effected by the devastation of > > > it and the experiences they've gone through during the peak period > > > when this Virus was at its worst. > > > > > > AND . . . > > > > > > I have seen in TODAY's WORLD, the EXACT same thing as you are > > > describing happening to you, of Angelfish being sold by Walmart (and > > > others) which are infected by this virus and which have been dropping > > > otherwise unexplainedly like flies -- INCLUDING having one or two fish > > > temporarily survive this onslault only to died within the following > > > month. I DO NOT think this is all coincidental. My brother (who had > > > yet to learn of this disease) experienced the VERY things with young > > > Angelfish he recently bought from Walmart a couple of months ago, > > > amost word for word. In his case, his lone surviving Angel lasted > > > another 3 weeks after the first ones died -- and he knows about > > > keeping fish properly. Many of my customers (fish store owners who > > > purchase my Angelfish) have told me of the quality of Angelfish (and > > > the Virus they still carry) they've bought in the recent past from > > > both Florida and directly from the Far East that just fold up on them > > > within a week's time, often resulting in complete losses -- the > > > unaccounted for ones having already been sold prior to the end of the > > > week. These sources and the Angelfish Virus they promote through > > > selling infected fish are still notorious for spreading this disease > > > with the help of unknowing dealers and hobbyists even today. > > > > > > Of course, you do not need to believe me, but then it would be folly > > > to continue in the manner you're attempting to add Angelfish to your > > > tank in hopes they'll survive. For all we know though, without having > > > your two Angelfish analyzed, they may be the healthiest Angels on > > > earth -- But I wouldn't want to bet the farm on it! > > > > > > I suggested to you what needs to be done to succeed. You may follow > > > this advice, or you may ignore it -- that's your decision. When buying > > > from a different source, a reputable breeder who has reliably supplied > > > quality disease-free Angelfish for many years simply cannot afford to > > > risk selling diseased Angelfish, and still have his business and > > > reputation survive. IF contemplating buying from such a known and > > > reputable dealer, you need to make sure whom you are dealing with. > > > There are many reputable Angelfish breeders in existance, but with > > > your not having the experience to know which are the better ones, you > > > may not know yet who to buy from with confidence. I WILL tell you that > > > you can't expect to pay Walmart prices and still get good fish. A lot > > > of work goes into raising these Angelfish and as a result these > > > breeders will (need) to charge more, but a good breeder will be fair > > > -- he does not need to price-gouge. If you're still following up on > > > this, and need further advise, there are a number of people here who > > > can best assist you with recommending breeders of quality Angels. I > > > can start by wholeheartedly recommending Steve Rybicki of Angels Plus > > > as one whom I can vouch for selling disease-free Angelfish; Steve's > > > been in the business for at least 25 years. Ray > > > > > > --- In AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com > > > <mailto:AquaticLife %40yahoogroups. com>, Joellen & Kevin Analla > > > <anallafamily. 2001@> wrote: > > > > > > > > So basically what your saying is that all fish in tank (2Angels) > > > must die then i need to disinfect all equipment then start all over > > > buying from a different source but theres no garanteen that even a > > > differant source could still get infected in that case i would have to > > > repeat process agian......Really isnt there a better way, or even a > > > way of knowing that fish will be ok . > > > > > > > > --- On Wed, 6/24/09, Raymond Wetzel <sevenspringss@ > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > From: Raymond Wetzel <sevenspringss@ > > > > > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Angels Please help??? > > > > To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com <mailto:AquaticLife %40yahoogroups. com> > > > > Date: Wednesday, June 24, 2009, 1:33 AM > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Hello Jo, So sorry you are running into this frustrating experience > > > in trying to keep Angelfish, when the species is not difficult to > > > maintain. Ordinarily, we would ask just what you meant (and will still > > > do this) when you say that your water is all testing okay. When giving > > > us any of your data concerning your water parameters, we prefer to > > > have number to be evaluate your circumstances, and the actual test > > > results in ppm (parts per million) best reflect your actual > > > conditions. If you could give us your test results for pH, ammonia, > > > nitrite and even nitrate, it could be a great help. If you can provide > > > results for temporary hardness (KH) and total/general hardness (GH), > > > this may be of further assistance to us -- the more information, the > > > better. BUT, in this particular case, I do not believe it's your water > > > quality that's at fault, even though we need to rule that out. > > > > > > > > Most unfortunately, new prospective Angelfish hobbyists will run > > > into this situation when buying from retailers who prefer obtaining > > > their Angelfish stocks indiscriminantly, possibly in an effort to save > > > money or perhaps just for the convenience. However, in buying in > > > essence what can be established as inferior stock, I fail to see what > > > they think they gain. Unfortunately too, the customer (you) is too > > > often unsuspecting of this possibility and blame the deaths of these > > > fish on themselves, when in truth it's the poor stock itself that > > > these outlets continue to retail -- despite the many losses they > > > themselves have with each re-stocking. > > > > > > > > These retailers know that they will not be alienating their > > > customers, as these customers are completely unaware that this stock > > > is inferior, and in their quest to maintain this beautiful species, > > > they repeatedly buy new stock in hopes they can keep them alive. Some > > > of the larger chain stores (and some smaller shops) operate in this > > > manner, Walmart having been one of them until they gave up selling > > > tropical fish; these stores continuing to buy their Angels only from > > > preferred sources which may include a headquarter- -designated > > > distributor, a Florida fish farm, a local wholesaler that buys from > > > either Florida or the Far East, or a Far East breeding establishment- > > > -exporter -- rather than a reputable domestic breeder. > > > > > > > > Now, getting to the root of this practice and its problem. Going > > > back some 15 years or slightly more, there was a major outbreak of a > > > horrific Angelfish Virus disease originating in the Far East, > > > decimating Angelfish stocks there as well as in this country when it > > > was introduced here through imports of that stock into this country. > > > Many domestic Angelfish breeders in this country were wiped out or at > > > least partially effected, not suspecting this problem, and mixed that > > > stock with theirs. The problem didn't stop there in this country as a > > > good number of the Florida fish farmers also introduced this diseased > > > Asian stock of Angelfish to their hatcheries in efforts to strengthen > > > their own stocks with "new blood," not yet knowing the consequences > > > they would have to pay. > > > > > > > > Gradually, this disease was finally contained although never > > > completely cured. Those Asian stocks that survived were strengthened > > > by natural selection to be able to remain viable while still carrying > > > th Virus as a latent disease always present but under control of these > > > latest Angelfish's adapted immune systems. This same adaptation of the > > > Angelfish's immune system to contain this Virus as of late, also > > > emerged from those Florida fish farm's stocks which were similarly > > > effected. > > > > > > > > As a result, most any Angelfish derived today from either those > > > effected Florida fish farms or those Far Eastern hatchery/exporters > > > carry this Virus as a weaker (as controlled now by these Angels' new > > > but limited immunity), yet still viable disease still capable of > > > overtaking the Angelfish as soon as receieves enough stress. This > > > shared (but not mutually beneficial where the fish is concerned) > > > existance is called "symbiosis," and is seen also in many Cichlids -- > > > including Angelfish -- as Hexamita, where this protozoan resides in a > > > latent condition in the fish's intestine, only to overtake the fish > > > when the fish experiences sufficient stress for it to do so. > > > > > > > > So, now when these Angelfish (carrying this disease) reach your > > > local fish store, they look fine at first and appear most healthy. > > > However, the stress of shipping soon takes its toll over the next week > > > as the disease now devastates these stressed and weakened fish. These > > > fish are not expected to last much more than an average of 6 or 7 days > > > as a result of what happens with them. Likewise, many (most?) of the > > > same fish in these stores that stock them soon die also (they are > > > KNOWN to fold up), but the storekeeper has still made his profit and > > > has "satisfied" his customers, which causes them to keep coming back > > > to those stores. > > > > > > > > If any of this rings a bell for you, you may finally be > > > understanding what's happening with your Angelfish. A few, such as the > > > two you have that survived so far will live for an undetermined period > > > of time, but their days are still numbered (could live for another few > > > weeks or so). If you still want to keep Angelfish, you cannot continue > > > to buy them from this present source as they'll meet the same fate, > > > nor can you add any other Angelfish to this tank from a different > > > source as they'll become infected. I really hate to have to suggest > > > this, and I don't know if you have any other species of fish presently > > > in this tank, but before you add any more Angels -- and they MUST be > > > from a reputable domestic breeder -- this tank and all its equipment > > > must be disinfected after these two remaining Angels secumb. I hope > > > this whole scenario of events as pertains to Angelfish has been at > > > least enlightening for you, and will serve to assist you in the future > > > (we'll > > > > still be here to help). I regret that since you most probably have > > > introduced disease-carrying Angelfish unknowingly, that you'll have a > > > long road ahead of you in maintaining your goal, but at least now you > > > know what to expect. Please keep us posted, Ray > > > > > > > > --- In AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com, "anallafamily. 2001" > > > <anallafamily. 2001@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > I'm new to the group so just let me know if I say or do something > > > not right...... > > > > > My Question.... I wanted to start up an angel tank so I have a > > > 55gal set up.. I keep buying 5 angels at a time and they keep dying > > > slowly but surely.. I think altogether I have bought 16 Angels and I > > > have managed to get 2 to live for at least 6 days now. I have plenty > > > of filtration and water flow, I have ph at 6.5 and water is all > > > testing ok... So what am I doing wrong? and should I go get more since > > > I got 2 to live uhhhhhh What do I do I feel like I want to give up but > > > I really thought they were such a beautiful fish. > > > > > Please Help Jo.. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 41470	From: Eric Roberts	Date: 6/26/2009
Subject: Re: O/T - PC Malfunctions

YEah...that's what it sounds like...especially if you fire something up that either uses a lot of processor is is very graphical. The bearings in fans go bad. They are pretty easy to replace as they are usually situated on top of heat sinks. If you don;t have any computer stores near you, there are a ton of shops online that specialize in cooling fans and other cooling supplies. I used to do a lot of overclocking, which causes cpu's and graphic cards to run hotter than normal so I was always beefing up my cooling...even cutting a couple of holes on the top of my case and putting in some fans that were the same width as my case. Sounded like a jet engine, but it kept the case cool hehehe. Eric On Fri, Jun 26, 2009 at 2:59 PM, Raymond Wetzel <sevenspringss@... > wrote: > > > Thank you for your advice, Eric. I was told something similar about a > possible faulty fan by ole Bill, so your post certainly backs this up. Makes > sense as it generally happens after about two hours of operation -- giving > the machine plenty of time to heat up if the fan isn't operating. I'll check > that out and check out the powerstrip as well. Thanks again, Ray > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>, Eric > Roberts <woad@...> wrote: > > > > No there is no fuse in a computer...you surge protector can go bad > causing > > it to trip off at much lighter loads than normal. Try plugging the > computer > > directly into the wall and see if it shuts down on its own. if it doesn't > > then the powerstip is the cause. If it does shut down still, more than > > likely you have a faulty fan on your CPU or video card and if those > > overheat, most computers will shut the system down to prevent damage. > > > > Eric > > > > On Fri, Jun 26, 2009 at 11:50 AM, Raymond Wetzel < > > sevenspringss@...> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > Does anyone (Lenny, \\Steve//) know if there is a circuit overload > (fuse?) > > > inside of computers that may get to be faulty, or can a > overload-protection > > > power strip go bad to the point of shutting itself off for no reason? > I've > > > been trying to reply to recent posts, some which I've been successful > with > > > and some that I had to re-write, due to 'puter malfunction. I've been > > > unsuccessful in replying to one of Jasmine's messages from yesterday > morning > > > and just now Joellen's most recent message. I will be partly into > writing a > > > reply, when the screen goes black for about 3 seconds as though someone > > > pulled the plug, then starts re-booting itself. Naturally all is lost > at > > > that time. This is a new one that's it's added to its bag of tricks, > but one > > > that's getting increasingly more frequent. Is there a fix I can do, > like > > > replacing a circuit breaker, or does this machine need the permanent > fix > > > (trash)? Thanks guys, Ray > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 41471	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 6/26/2009
Subject: Re: O/T - PC Malfunctions

Ray, I tend to agree with Eric. While I don't have a ton of experience at repairing computer hardware, I do belong to a few computer related yahoo groups and read about other people's problems all the time, in order to keep my computers from getting to that point. Just like our fish tanks, computers need a certain amount of maintenance to keep them running right. By doing regular maintenance, they'll last a LOT longer. This includes dusting/cleaning the hardware (vents, fans, everything inside of the computer CPU case, etc). Of course, it has to be done right to avoid static shock issues but it's easy to learn and most computers are easy to crack open, especially the upright CPU's. Usually just one or two thumb screws and the entire side panel slides off. Folks are usually amazed at how much dust buildup happens inside their computers. That's one of the big reasons for failure. Also running the obvious anti-malware programs (anti-virus, anti-spyware, etc.) and doing updates, as needed to keep the software running right. Last, but certainly not least, back-up, back-up, back-up... so when all your other measures fail, you don't lose all your files. I do a hard disk image onto an external hard drive about once a week and then I also have Mozy Online backup https://mozy.com/?code=SY4ZSI to constantly keep "My Documents" folder backed up and my Outlook PST files. Mozy for home use, is free for up to 2GB of storage and unlimited storage is under $5.00 a month. It's a simple program to use and Mozy or Carbonite are the two largest online services. I like Mozy, mainly because I was involved in the Beta testing of it but also because it gives users the 2GB of service for free with no time period. For many folks, this is sufficient but not for folks that have tons of music, movies, BIG Outlook PST files, etc. I still use the free Mozy on a couple of my computers but have the paid unlimited version on my main computer. I also use the free Macrium Reflect program for imaging (cloning) my hard drive so in the event of total hard drive failure, I still have my ENTIRE computer's hard drive cloned and then I would just have to boot up off the external drive and then use Mozy to back up the past weeks files since I last did an imaging and I'm right back to normal. If you don't do a ton of saving on your computer, you could just do the imaging once a month and rely on Mozy to back up the rest. Once you see how easy it is to do basic stuff on a computer's interior, your next thing will be adding some more RAM memory to your computer. You can usually get new RAM memory sticks for under $25.00 and double your computer's speed rather easily... especially on older computers. Even adding 128KB of ram to an old 256KB computer makes it so much better. Adding 256KB more will make it seem like a supersonic jet. I've taken old computers from other people and a lot of times, they'll have the same Memory Sticks as I might need in one of my old computers and I'm able to double my RAM at no cost. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Eric Roberts Sent: Friday, June 26, 2009 3:03 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: O/T - PC Malfunctions YEah...that's what it sounds like...especially if you fire something up that either uses a lot of processor is is very graphical. The bearings in fans go bad. They are pretty easy to replace as they are usually situated on top of heat sinks. If you don;t have any computer stores near you, there are a ton of shops online that specialize in cooling fans and other cooling supplies. I used to do a lot of overclocking, which causes cpu's and graphic cards to run hotter than normal so I was always beefing up my cooling...even cutting a couple of holes on the top of my case and putting in some fans that were the same width as my case. Sounded like a jet engine, but it kept the case cool hehehe. Eric On Fri, Jun 26, 2009 at 2:59 PM, Raymond Wetzel <sevenspringss@... > wrote: > > > Thank you for your advice, Eric. I was told something similar about a > possible faulty fan by ole Bill, so your post certainly backs this up. > Makes sense as it generally happens after about two hours of operation > -- giving the machine plenty of time to heat up if the fan isn't > operating. I'll check that out and check out the powerstrip as well. > Thanks again, Ray > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>, > Eric Roberts <woad@...> wrote: > > > > No there is no fuse in a computer...you surge protector can go bad > causing > > it to trip off at much lighter loads than normal. Try plugging the > computer > > directly into the wall and see if it shuts down on its own. if it > > doesn't then the powerstip is the cause. If it does shut down still, > > more than likely you have a faulty fan on your CPU or video card and > > if those overheat, most computers will shut the system down to prevent damage. > > > > Eric > > > > On Fri, Jun 26, 2009 at 11:50 AM, Raymond Wetzel < > > sevenspringss@...> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > Does anyone (Lenny, \\Steve//) know if there is a circuit overload > (fuse?) > > > inside of computers that may get to be faulty, or can a > overload-protection > > > power strip go bad to the point of shutting itself off for no reason? > I've > > > been trying to reply to recent posts, some which I've been > > > successful > with > > > and some that I had to re-write, due to 'puter malfunction. I've > > > been unsuccessful in replying to one of Jasmine's messages from > > > yesterday > morning > > > and just now Joellen's most recent message. I will be partly into > writing a > > > reply, when the screen goes black for about 3 seconds as though > > > someone pulled the plug, then starts re-booting itself. Naturally > > > all is lost > at > > > that time. This is a new one that's it's added to its bag of > > > tricks, > but one > > > that's getting increasingly more frequent. Is there a fix I can > > > do, > like > > > replacing a circuit breaker, or does this machine need the > > > permanent > fix > > > (trash)? Thanks guys, Ray > > > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 41472	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 6/26/2009
Subject: Re: 55 gallon community tank

Yes and no. While a higher KH and GH will often result in a higher pH, it isn't automatic. For example, if you have a heavy bioload in a tank with lots of nitrifying bacterial action and decaying detritus putting out lots of carbonic acid and CO2, then your pH will be lower because of all of the acid and CO2. If you keep your gravel reasonably clean (if possible, depending on the substrate) and keep your filters well maintained and your bioload isn't overwhelming, then yes, the pH of the tank shouldn't be more than 0.4 difference from your tap water baseline. Then when doing a 25% PWC, it would only change the pH by 0.1 which is an acceptable immediate change in pH. Of course, in your case, the water comes out the tap with CO2 in it (more than likely) so even if your tank is at 6.0 pH and your tap is at 6.5 pH, doing a 25% PWC would still only result in a 0.125 change in pH... still acceptable for an immediate change. Then as the CO2 outgases from the tap water that you added, the pH will rise a little more over the next day or two but not enough to cause a problem. I'm sure, by using the crushed coral, doing proper tank/filter maintenance and weekly PWC's, your tank's pH will slowly climb up closer to your tap's pH. You would get better results with your crushed coral once you put it in a filter media bag and inside your filter reservoir so it gets more water action going through it. The Grand Canyon didn't happen from slow moving water or stagnant water just sitting there... but fast moving water can cut through dirt and stone like a hot knife through butter, over time.. and thus, The Grand Canyon.... also what happens to a levee down here, once it springs a small leak. ;-) Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Amber Berglund Sent: Friday, June 26, 2009 11:57 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] 55 gallon community tank I want to get my pH where it is closer to my tapwater baseline so I won't stress out the fish too much doing PWC's. So to do that I'm going to have to maintain a higher KH and GH correct? Amber Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > > > Amber, > > Daily dosing is not required for GH/KH issues. BUT... for at least one > of the SeaChem products, Excel, I think daily dosing is at least suggested. > > If you went with the Oyster Flour, you would only have to daily dose > for the first week or so to bring the GH/KH levels up to where you > want them. > After > that, you would just dose the water you are putting back into the tank > after your weekly tank maintenance. > > Yes, using something like the crushed coral or cuttlebone means that > you would only have to fill a filter media bag and stick that in your > filter reservoir. Then check it on a weekly basis and top off the bag > whenever it starts to get low due to the media dissolving. > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> (Links to any articles referenced in > above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels > and also under Archives by Year, Month) > > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On Behalf Of Amber Berglund > Sent: Friday, June 26, 2009 10:05 AM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] 55 gallon community tank > > I just did my baseline tests, initial tests had my pH at 6.5-6.6 and > GH was approx 100ppm , and KH was 18ppm or less (1 drop). > pH rose to 6.8 after 24 and 48 hours, GH lowered to 38ppm after 48 > hours and KH remained the same the whole time. > As you can see I have a little GH in my tap water, but hardly any KH > at all, so I'm trying to remedy this and get my tanks at a more > reasonable KH and GH level without having to dose the tank every day. > Let's put it this way, if I had to take daily meds to stay alive, I'd > probably forget and die... now lets not put someone in charge of daily > dosing on a tank that's very important for the health of the fish ;) LOL. > > Amber > > bill 1433 wrote: > > > > > > Amber!!! Sorry! I forgot something, > > > > As Len just mentioned GH and KH in your tap water is very important > > to all of this. > > > > If you will remember back some time ago I went through all of this > > BUT, I had no GH or KH at all, natural spring, well water here. BUT > > I also have an extremely low pH, 5.5 to 5.7 naturally. > > > > All of this has a direct bearing on all tests. You must know for > > sure your starting or baseline readings for pH, GH and KH. > > > > The amount of your starting readings will greatly affect the > > over-all speed which any buffer or agent like the Oyster Flour, > > crushed coral will work. Mine was very fast because of the well waters low pH. > > Yours may not be. Also please remember that I had no GH or KH to > > start with. This was my whole point in playing in the water. With a > > measurable amount of GH and KH I hoped to achieve a buffer to guard > > against pH spikes and drops.. > > > > Bill > > > > --- On Fri, 6/26/09, bill 1433 <warrenprint@... > <mailto:warrenprint%40yahoo.com> > > <mailto:warrenprint%40yahoo.com>> wrote: > > > > > From: bill 1433 <warrenprint@... > <mailto:warrenprint%40yahoo.com> > > > <mailto:warrenprint%40yahoo.com>> > > > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] 55 gallon community tank > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > Date: Friday, June 26, 2009, 9:30 AM > > > > > > Hi Amber, > > > > > > I am still trying to figure out exactly what your trying to do here. > > > Sorry I lost your original post. But may I offer some food for > > > thought? > > > > > > First, here is a link and picture of the Oyster Shell Flour and > > > its > > > manufacture: > > > > > > http://www.downtoearthdistributors.com/oystershell.html > <http://www.downtoearthdistributors.com/oystershell.html> > > <http://www.downtoearthdistributors.com/oystershell.html > <http://www.downtoearthdistributors.com/oystershell.html>> > > > > > > Next, I am reading in the postings this morning that your adding > > > "hand fulls" of coral to the tank? > > > If you go to far (and I did, so I know) its the devil to get it > > > back out. Use some type of bag for control. > > > > > > And finally, on the bag itself, you can get a regular one for this > > > purpose at Dr's. here: > > > > > > http://pet-supplies.drsfostersmith.com/search?af=type%3Aproduct&ca > <http://pet-supplies.drsfostersmith.com/search?af=type%3Aproduct&c > a> > > rtcount=0&wishcount=0&subtotal=0.00&w=mesh+bag&asug=mesh > > > <http://pet-supplies.drsfostersmith.com/search?af=type%3Aproduct&c > <http://pet-supplies.drsfostersmith.com/search?af=type%3Aproduct&c > > > > artcount=0&wishcount=0&subtotal=0.00&w=mesh+bag&asug=mesh> > > > > > > Now if you are using your own, as Len mentioned, not Fish-Nets, > > > use real nylons. By that I mean stockings, not pantyhose. Why? > > > While I am not proficient in ladies wear, I am almost positive > > > that pantyhose products contain Spandex? I don't think you want > > > that chemical in your aquarium water as it could break down in > > > time and who knows were that could lead. Stay with anything that's > > > 100% nylon. > > > > > > "Playing in the Water" as I like to call it, is not advisable but > > > it can be done. If your taking readings and the proper notes, over > > > time you will develope a regular system and once your goals are > > > reached you will learn how much water to use in your regualr water > > > changes so as to not upset the balance you have acheieved. You > > > mentioned this morning about having that coral from the orginal > > > owner? > > > Please tell me you "sterlized" what portions you are using BEFORE > > > putting it into your aquarium? > > > > > > Bill > > > > > > --- On Fri, 6/26/09, Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@... > <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com> > > <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com>> > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@... > <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com> > > <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com>> > > > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] 55 gallon community tank > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > Date: Friday, June 26, 2009, 4:59 AM > > > > > > > > > I've never seen a good article on the proper use of crushed coral. > > > I think there are so many variables that it's hard to know > > > precisely how much to use. It's probably something someone with > > > multiple tanks could do and keep accurate records over the course > > > of several months and then come up with some kind of formula, then > > > publish the formula to get more people trying it and reporting > > > back with their results to make sure the formula works for the masses. > > > > > > The problems that I see is that the more acidic the water, the > > > faster the coral would be dissolve BUT if the water is acidic and > > > has a high GH and low KH, then the calcium side of the coral would > > > not dissolve as fast. If the water is acidic and has a high KH and > > > low GH, then the carbonate side would not dissolve as fast. If the > > > water is not acidic, then the coral would dissolve much slower. Of > > > course, the flow rate of the water through the filter also has > > > some factor in the dissolve rate. I'm not sure how these variables > > > would affect how much should be used. I'm guessing there would > > > have to be a baseline established at 7.0 pH with moderate GH and > > > KH levels and then work up and down from there. One figure I've > > > seen posted in forums before was 1kg per 40 liters of water, when > > > used as in the substrate. That would translate to around 2 pounds > > > per 10G of water. > > > Obviously, not > > > something you could fit in a filter system. That's the other > > > problem for many folks. While folks with BIG canister filters > > > could use the crushed coral in a filter media bag in their filter > > > reservoir, this isn't possible with most of the smaller HOB's. > > > > > > I think it really comes down to each fishkeeper coming up with > > > their own "system" of how to use crushed coral or cuttlebone. > > > That's the good thing > > > about using things like Baking Soda and Oyster Flour... > > > they can be > > > precisely measured, dosed and measured with test kits to see that > > > they are doing what they are supposed to be doing. > > > > > > Of course, when things get too complicated... keep fish that like > > > your source water in the first place. Of course, when one wants to > > > have a heavily planted tank and/or keep fish that do not do well > > > with their baseline water, then these other measures become > > > necessary. > > > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>> > > > (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the > > > right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by > > > Year, Month) > > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] > > > On > > > Behalf Of Amber Berglund > > > Sent: Friday, June 26, 2009 12:44 AM > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] 55 gallon community tank > > > > > > most of the crushed coral is sold live, they're getting it > > > somewhere, hmmm... wonder where? ;) Should I wait to add any more > > > of the crushed coral? > > > I'm not sure how fast it would normally affect the GH or KH. > > > > > > Amber > > > > > > Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > OOHHHH.. so now we have a conspiracy of reef > > > destroyers. LOL > > > > > > > > I wonder where they get the "crushed coral" that is > > > sold? I see that > > > > the CaribSea brand is called Florida Crushed Coral. > > > With the > > > > protection that most places give to their coral reefs, > > > you would think > > > > that selling crushed coral would be a no-no. Florida > > > even has a > > > > section of their Dept. Of Environmental Protection > > > website talking > > > > about saving their reefs. > > > > http://www.dep.state.fl.us/coastal/programs/coral/maritime.htm > <http://www.dep.state.fl.us/coastal/programs/coral/maritime.htm> > > <http://www.dep.state.fl.us/coastal/programs/coral/maritime.htm > <http://www.dep.state.fl.us/coastal/programs/coral/maritime.htm>> > > > > <http://www.dep.state.fl.us/coastal/programs/coral/maritime.htm > <http://www.dep.state.fl.us/coastal/programs/coral/maritime.htm> > > <http://www.dep.state.fl.us/coastal/programs/coral/maritime.htm > <http://www.dep.state.fl.us/coastal/programs/coral/maritime.htm>>> > > > > > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>> > > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>>> > > > > (Links > > > to any articles referenced in > > > > above reply are listed on the right side, > > > alphabetically under Labels > > > > and also under Archives by Year, Month) > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On > > > Behalf Of Amber Berglund > > > > Sent: Thursday, June 25, 2009 11:17 PM > > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] 55 gallon community tank > > > > > > > > I didn't destroy anything, it was given to me by the > > > previous owner of > > > > the > > > > 125 gallon tank, she was going to throw it away so I > > > said i would take > > > > it off of her hands, figured it may come in handy some > > > day ;) > > > > > > > > Amber > > > > > > > > Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Calcium would affect GH. > > > > > > > > > > I'm not going to ask which reef you destroyed for > > > that garbage can > > > > > full of crushed coral.... and hopefully the > > > reef-huggers aren't > > > > > reading this thread. > > > > > > > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > > > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>> > > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>>> > > > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>> > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>>>> > > > > (Links to any articles referenced in > > > > > above reply are listed on the right side, > > > alphabetically under > > > > > Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On > > > Behalf Of Amber Berglund > > > > > Sent: Thursday, June 25, 2009 10:58 PM > > > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] 55 gallon community > > > tank > > > > > > > > > > I have a garbage can full of crushed coral ;) > > > LOL. > > > > > That's going to last me awhile for now, and it's > > > free. > > > > > I will figure out something different when I run > > > low on the crushed > > > > > coral ;) > > > > > > > > > > Also no one answered my question about calcium > > > chloride, what does > > > > > it affect? GH or KH? I bought it for when I have > > > the snails, wanted > > > > > to have calcium on hand. > > > > > > > > > > Amber > > > > > > > > > > Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > OK. If the crushed coral is raising it up > > > from the 33ppm range to > > > > > > the 75ppm range, then you are probably going > > > to be OK. > > > > > > > > > > > > Crushed coral can/should raise both since > > > crushed coral is > > > > > > supposed to be calcium carbonate also. > > > > > > > > > > > > Here's a snip from my calculations post in > > > the Ponds-Koi forum. Of > > > > > > course, this snip is dealing with something > > > like Oyster Flour > > > > > > which is immediately dissolvable in the > > > water column, not > > > > > > something you have to wait to break down > > > like crushed coral. The > > > > > > Carbonate could be dissolving so slowly that > > > your tank's ecology > > > > > > is using it up faster or as fast as it is > > > being released. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > "...Two teaspoons (about 4 grams) > > > of calcium carbonate > > > > > > > > (CaCO3) per 50 liters of water > > > will increase both KH and GH by > > > > > > > > 4 degrees..." from > > http://www.thekrib.com/Plants/CO2/khgh.html > <http://www.thekrib.com/Plants/CO2/khgh.html> > > > and since > > > > > > > > raising it 4 degrees is kind of > > > where we want to raise it > > > > > > > > since it has > > > > > > > > 1 degree already, it's just a > > > matter of doing a little more math.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 41473	From: bill 1433	Date: 6/26/2009
Subject: Re: undergravel filters?

Hi Jo and Welcome! Yes, there is a lot of controversy with their use.  First lets consider it in a different way and not say "Filter" at all.  Lets say under-gravel water movers because that's what they are and their real true purpose.  They turn the entire bottom of your tank into a giant BIOLOGICAL filer, NOT a mechanical one.  You must still vacuum your gravel and do regular water changes.  This is were people go wrong with them.  If left unattended, or mismanaged you will quickly kill everything in your tank and turn a once beautiful aquarium into a giant septic system.   They only have two serious draw backs, you cannot use live plants with them and if your wish is to keep larger fish likes Oscars or Goldfish for instance, forget it.  The Oscars bio-load and need for constant vacuuming cause concern, also Mr. Oscar may not like the filter tubes and rip them out.  I've had it happen.   If you do elect to use them I would only add to step up to power heads as opposed to air power in the filter tubes.  With a tank this size the pump you would need for enough air power almost negates the cost of the power heads, about 20 bucks each.  Again, a tank this size I would use two separate stems, one in each filter plate (you probably have two plates) at each outside rear corner.  The power heads should be about 400 gallon per hour each.  This gives you a total tank turn around of 800 gallons.  That's plenty of circulation with no dead spots. You don't want to over-power the tubes either because you can get to much power and cause your gravel to compact and this is not good either.   Also for a tank like this, I am assuming a standard 75 at 4 feet long, 18 inches wide and about 20 inches high I would also recommend the use of a good CANISTER FILTER like the Rena XP2 or XP3, if you have the money.  They start at $110 and you can get more info here:  http://www.drsfostersmith.com/product/prod_display.cfm?pcatid=3602 Years ago, all of my 100 gallon tanks had under gravel filters and were up for many years wihout any mainteance other than water changes and vacuuming..  I have just returned the hobby and recenty reset a 29 gallon tank that was up without undergravel filters.  That tanks now looks like my old ones from years ago.  Chryrsal clear and a pleasure to view.  Before the undergravel filter, a slight cloudy condition that never really cleared up.  I suspect that this was caused by insufficnet filtration of the power filter which is not a Rena but a hang on the back type. Congrats on the tank and enjoy! PLease keep us posted. Bill   --- On Fri, 6/26/09, anallafamily.2001 <anallafamily.2001@...> wrote: From: anallafamily.2001 <anallafamily.2001@...> Subject: [AquaticLife] undergravel filters? To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Date: Friday, June 26, 2009, 2:16 PM I recently purchased a 75 gal tank off of craigslist and it came with these plastic undergravel filter plate things...I did alittle invastigating and there are alot of pros/cons with useing them . I personally have never used before. Whats the scoop are they to much of a hassel and what kind of filter would be needed.?  Jo ------------------------------------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the home page.  Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com to receive the digest, which includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com for the No E-Mail option where you will still be able to read messages on the group and post replies. Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com to receive individual e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 41474	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 6/26/2009
Subject: Re: 55 gallon community tank

Okay I will put some in one of the giant filter bags and maybe fold it over or something for something to use for now, it's time for a filter cleaning anyways, might as well add it while I'm in there ;) LOL. How much more should I add since I put a few handfulls into the tank itself? Should I add any at all? Amber Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > > > Yes and no. While a higher KH and GH will often result in a higher pH, it > isn't automatic. For example, if you have a heavy bioload in a tank with > lots of nitrifying bacterial action and decaying detritus putting out lots > of carbonic acid and CO2, then your pH will be lower because of all of the > acid and CO2. If you keep your gravel reasonably clean (if possible, > depending on the substrate) and keep your filters well maintained and your > bioload isn't overwhelming, then yes, the pH of the tank shouldn't be more > than 0.4 difference from your tap water baseline. Then when doing a 25% > PWC, it would only change the pH by 0.1 which is an acceptable immediate > change in pH. Of course, in your case, the water comes out the tap > with CO2 > in it (more than likely) so even if your tank is at 6.0 pH and your tap is > at 6.5 pH, doing a 25% PWC would still only result in a 0.125 change in > pH... still acceptable for an immediate change. Then as the CO2 outgases > from the tap water that you added, the pH will rise a little more over the > next day or two but not enough to cause a problem. I'm sure, by using the > crushed coral, doing proper tank/filter maintenance and weekly PWC's, your > tank's pH will slowly climb up closer to your tap's pH. > > You would get better results with your crushed coral once you put it in a > filter media bag and inside your filter reservoir so it gets more water > action going through it. The Grand Canyon didn't happen from slow moving > water or stagnant water just sitting there... but fast moving water > can cut > through dirt and stone like a hot knife through butter, over time.. and > thus, The Grand Canyon.... also what happens to a levee down here, once it > springs a small leak. ;-) > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right > side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On > Behalf Of Amber Berglund > Sent: Friday, June 26, 2009 11:57 AM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] 55 gallon community tank > > I want to get my pH where it is closer to my tapwater baseline so I won't > stress out the fish too much doing PWC's. > So to do that I'm going to have to maintain a higher KH and GH correct? > > Amber > > Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > > > > > > Amber, > > > > Daily dosing is not required for GH/KH issues. BUT... for at least one > > of the SeaChem products, Excel, I think daily dosing is at least > suggested. > > > > If you went with the Oyster Flour, you would only have to daily dose > > for the first week or so to bring the GH/KH levels up to where you > > want them. > > After > > that, you would just dose the water you are putting back into the tank > > after your weekly tank maintenance. > > > > Yes, using something like the crushed coral or cuttlebone means that > > you would only have to fill a filter media bag and stick that in your > > filter reservoir. Then check it on a weekly basis and top off the bag > > whenever it starts to get low due to the media dissolving. > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>> > (Links to any articles referenced in > > above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels > > and also under Archives by Year, Month) > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On Behalf Of Amber Berglund > > Sent: Friday, June 26, 2009 10:05 AM > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] 55 gallon community tank > > > > I just did my baseline tests, initial tests had my pH at 6.5-6.6 and > > GH was approx 100ppm , and KH was 18ppm or less (1 drop). > > pH rose to 6.8 after 24 and 48 hours, GH lowered to 38ppm after 48 > > hours and KH remained the same the whole time. > > As you can see I have a little GH in my tap water, but hardly any KH > > at all, so I'm trying to remedy this and get my tanks at a more > > reasonable KH and GH level without having to dose the tank every day. > > Let's put it this way, if I had to take daily meds to stay alive, I'd > > probably forget and die... now lets not put someone in charge of daily > > dosing on a tank that's very important for the health of the fish ;) > LOL. > > > > Amber > > > > bill 1433 wrote: > > > > > > > > > Amber!!! Sorry! I forgot something, > > > > > > As Len just mentioned GH and KH in your tap water is very important > > > to all of this. > > > > > > If you will remember back some time ago I went through all of this > > > BUT, I had no GH or KH at all, natural spring, well water here. BUT > > > I also have an extremely low pH, 5.5 to 5.7 naturally. > > > > > > All of this has a direct bearing on all tests. You must know for > > > sure your starting or baseline readings for pH, GH and KH. > > > > > > The amount of your starting readings will greatly affect the > > > over-all speed which any buffer or agent like the Oyster Flour, > > > crushed coral will work. Mine was very fast because of the well waters > low pH. > > > Yours may not be. Also please remember that I had no GH or KH to > > > start with. This was my whole point in playing in the water. With a > > > measurable amount of GH and KH I hoped to achieve a buffer to guard > > > against pH spikes and drops.. > > > > > > Bill > > > > > > --- On Fri, 6/26/09, bill 1433 <warrenprint@... > <mailto:warrenprint%40yahoo.com> > > <mailto:warrenprint%40yahoo.com> > > > <mailto:warrenprint%40yahoo.com>> wrote: > > > > > > > From: bill 1433 <warrenprint@... > <mailto:warrenprint%40yahoo.com> > > <mailto:warrenprint%40yahoo.com> > > > > <mailto:warrenprint%40yahoo.com>> > > > > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] 55 gallon community tank > > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > Date: Friday, June 26, 2009, 9:30 AM > > > > > > > > Hi Amber, > > > > > > > > I am still trying to figure out exactly what your trying to do here. > > > > Sorry I lost your original post. But may I offer some food for > > > > thought? > > > > > > > > First, here is a link and picture of the Oyster Shell Flour and > > > > its > > > > manufacture: > > > > > > > > http://www.downtoearthdistributors.com/oystershell.html > <http://www.downtoearthdistributors.com/oystershell.html> > > <http://www.downtoearthdistributors.com/oystershell.html > <http://www.downtoearthdistributors.com/oystershell.html>> > > > <http://www.downtoearthdistributors.com/oystershell.html > <http://www.downtoearthdistributors.com/oystershell.html> > > <http://www.downtoearthdistributors.com/oystershell.html > <http://www.downtoearthdistributors.com/oystershell.html>>> > > > > > > > > Next, I am reading in the postings this morning that your adding > > > > "hand fulls" of coral to the tank? > > > > If you go to far (and I did, so I know) its the devil to get it > > > > back out. Use some type of bag for control. > > > > > > > > And finally, on the bag itself, you can get a regular one for this > > > > purpose at Dr's. here: > > > > > > > > > > http://pet-supplies.drsfostersmith.com/search?af=type%3Aproduct&ca > <http://pet-supplies.drsfostersmith.com/search?af=type%3Aproduct&ca> > > > <http://pet-supplies.drsfostersmith.com/search?af=type%3Aproduct&c > <http://pet-supplies.drsfostersmith.com/search?af=type%3Aproduct&c> > > a> > > > rtcount=0&wishcount=0&subtotal=0.00&w=mesh+bag&asug=mesh > > > > > > <http://pet-supplies.drsfostersmith.com/search?af=type%3Aproduct&c > <http://pet-supplies.drsfostersmith.com/search?af=type%3Aproduct&c> > > > <http://pet-supplies.drsfostersmith.com/search?af=type%3Aproduct&c > <http://pet-supplies.drsfostersmith.com/search?af=type%3Aproduct&c> > > > > > > artcount=0&wishcount=0&subtotal=0.00&w=mesh+bag&asug=mesh> > > > > > > > > Now if you are using your own, as Len mentioned, not Fish-Nets, > > > > use real nylons. By that I mean stockings, not pantyhose. Why? > > > > While I am not proficient in ladies wear, I am almost positive > > > > that pantyhose products contain Spandex? I don't think you want > > > > that chemical in your aquarium water as it could break down in > > > > time and who knows were that could lead. Stay with anything that's > > > > 100% nylon. > > > > > > > > "Playing in the Water" as I like to call it, is not advisable but > > > > it can be done. If your taking readings and the proper notes, over > > > > time you will develope a regular system and once your goals are > > > > reached you will learn how much water to use in your regualr water > > > > changes so as to not upset the balance you have acheieved. You > > > > mentioned this morning about having that coral from the orginal > > > > owner? > > > > Please tell me you "sterlized" what portions you are using BEFORE > > > > putting it into your aquarium? > > > > > > > > Bill > > > > > > > > --- On Fri, 6/26/09, Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@... > <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com> > > <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com> > > > <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com>> > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@... > <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com> > > <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com> > > > <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com>> > > > > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] 55 gallon community tank > > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > Date: Friday, June 26, 2009, 4:59 AM > > > > > > > > > > > > I've never seen a good article on the proper use of crushed coral. > > > > I think there are so many variables that it's hard to know > > > > precisely how much to use. It's probably something someone with > > > > multiple tanks could do and keep accurate records over the course > > > > of several months and then come up with some kind of formula, then > > > > publish the formula to get more people trying it and reporting > > > > back with their results to make sure the formula works for the > masses. > > > > > > > > The problems that I see is that the more acidic the water, the > > > > faster the coral would be dissolve BUT if the water is acidic and > > > > has a high GH and low KH, then the calcium side of the coral would > > > > not dissolve as fast. If the water is acidic and has a high KH and > > > > low GH, then the carbonate side would not dissolve as fast. If the > > > > water is not acidic, then the coral would dissolve much slower. Of > > > > course, the flow rate of the water through the filter also has > > > > some factor in the dissolve rate. I'm not sure how these variables > > > > would affect how much should be used. I'm guessing there would > > > > have to be a baseline established at 7.0 pH with moderate GH and > > > > KH levels and then work up and down from there. One figure I've > > > > seen posted in forums before was 1kg per 40 liters of water, when > > > > used as in the substrate. That would translate to around 2 pounds > > > > per 10G of water. > > > > Obviously, not > > > > something you could fit in a filter system. That's the other > > > > problem for many folks. While folks with BIG canister filters > > > > could use the crushed coral in a filter media bag in their filter > > > > reservoir, this isn't possible with most of the smaller HOB's. > > > > > > > > I think it really comes down to each fishkeeper coming up with > > > > their own "system" of how to use crushed coral or cuttlebone. > > > > That's the good thing > > > > about using things like Baking Soda and Oyster Flour... > > > > they can be > > > > precisely measured, dosed and measured with test kits to see that > > > > they are doing what they are supposed to be doing. > > > > > > > > Of course, when things get too complicated... keep fish that like > > > > your source water in the first place. Of course, when one wants to > > > > have a heavily planted tank and/or keep fish that do not do well > > > > with their baseline water, then these other measures become > > > > necessary. > > > > > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>> > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>>> > > > > (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the > > > > right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by > > > > Year, Month) > > > > > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] > > > > On > > > > Behalf Of Amber Berglund > > > > Sent: Friday, June 26, 2009 12:44 AM > > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] 55 gallon community tank > > > > > > > > most of the crushed coral is sold live, they're getting it > > > > somewhere, hmmm... wonder where? ;) Should I wait to add any more > > > > of the crushed coral? > > > > I'm not sure how fast it would normally affect the GH or KH. > > > > > > > > Amber > > > > > > > > Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > OOHHHH.. so now we have a conspiracy of reef > > > > destroyers. LOL > > > > > > > > > > I wonder where they get the "crushed coral" that is > > > > sold? I see that > > > > > the CaribSea brand is called Florida Crushed Coral. > > > > With the > > > > > protection that most places give to their coral reefs, > > > > you would think > > > > > that selling crushed coral would be a no-no. Florida > > > > even has a > > > > > section of their Dept. Of Environmental Protection > > > > website talking > > > > > about saving their reefs. > > > > > http://www.dep.state.fl.us/coastal/programs/coral/maritime.htm > <http://www.dep.state.fl.us/coastal/programs/coral/maritime.htm> > > <http://www.dep.state.fl.us/coastal/programs/coral/maritime.htm > <http://www.dep.state.fl.us/coastal/programs/coral/maritime.htm>> > > > <http://www.dep.state.fl.us/coastal/programs/coral/maritime.htm > <http://www.dep.state.fl.us/coastal/programs/coral/maritime.htm> > > <http://www.dep.state.fl.us/coastal/programs/coral/maritime.htm > <http://www.dep.state.fl.us/coastal/programs/coral/maritime.htm>>> > > > > > > <http://www.dep.state.fl.us/coastal/programs/coral/maritime.htm > <http://www.dep.state.fl.us/coastal/programs/coral/maritime.htm> > > <http://www.dep.state.fl.us/coastal/programs/coral/maritime.htm > <http://www.dep.state.fl.us/coastal/programs/coral/maritime.htm>> > > > <http://www.dep.state.fl.us/coastal/programs/coral/maritime.htm > <http://www.dep.state.fl.us/coastal/programs/coral/maritime.htm> > > <http://www.dep.state.fl.us/coastal/programs/coral/maritime.htm > <http://www.dep.state.fl.us/coastal/programs/coral/maritime.htm>>>> > > > > > > > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > > > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>> > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>>> > > > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>> > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>>>> > > > > > (Links > > > > to any articles referenced in > > > > > above reply are listed on the right side, > > > > alphabetically under Labels > > > > > and also under Archives by Year, Month) > > > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On > > > > Behalf Of Amber Berglund > > > > > Sent: Thursday, June 25, 2009 11:17 PM > > > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] 55 gallon community tank > > > > > > > > > > I didn't destroy anything, it was given to me by the > > > > previous owner of > > > > > the > > > > > 125 gallon tank, she was going to throw it away so I > > > > said i would take > > > > > it off of her hands, figured it may come in handy some > > > > day ;) > > > > > > > > > > Amber > > > > > > > > > > Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Calcium would affect GH. > > > > > > > > > > > > I'm not going to ask which reef you destroyed for > > > > that garbage can > > > > > > full of crushed coral.... and hopefully the > > > > reef-huggers aren't > > > > > > reading this thread. > > > > > > > > > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > > > > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>> > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>>> > > > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>> > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>>>> > > > > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>> > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>>> > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>> > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>>>>> > > > > > (Links to any articles referenced in > > > > > > above reply are listed on the right side, > > > > alphabetically under > > > > > > Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > > > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On > > > > Behalf Of Amber Berglund > > > > > > Sent: Thursday, June 25, 2009 10:58 PM > > > > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] 55 gallon community > > > > tank > > > > > > > > > > > > I have a garbage can full of crushed coral ;) > > > > LOL. > > > > > > That's going to last me awhile for now, and it's > > > > free. > > > > > > I will figure out something different when I run > > > > low on the crushed > > > > > > coral ;) > > > > > > > > > > > > Also no one answered my question about calcium > > > > chloride, what does > > > > > > it affect? GH or KH? I bought it for when I have > > > > the snails, wanted > > > > > > to have calcium on hand. > > > > > > > > > > > > Amber > > > > > > > > > > > > Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > OK. If the crushed coral is raising it up > > > > from the 33ppm range to > > > > > > > the 75ppm range, then you are probably going > > > > to be OK. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Crushed coral can/should raise both since > > > > crushed coral is > > > > > > > supposed to be calcium carbonate also. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Here's a snip from my calculations post in > > > > the Ponds-Koi forum. Of > > > > > > > course, this snip is dealing with something > > > > like Oyster Flour > > > > > > > which is immediately dissolvable in the > > > > water column, not > > > > > > > something you have to wait to break down > > > > like crushed coral. The > > > > > > > Carbonate could be dissolving so slowly that > > > > your tank's ecology > > > > > > > is using it up faster or as fast as it is > > > > being released. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > "...Two teaspoons (about 4 grams) > > > > of calcium carbonate > > > > > > > > > (CaCO3) per 50 liters of water > > > > will increase both KH and GH by > > > > > > > > > 4 degrees..." from > > > http://www.thekrib.com/Plants/CO2/khgh.html > <http://www.thekrib.com/Plants/CO2/khgh.html> > > <http://www.thekrib.com/Plants/CO2/khgh.html > <http://www.thekrib.com/Plants/CO2/khgh.html>> > > > > and since > > > > > > > > > raising it 4 degrees is kind of > > > > where we want to raise it > > > > > > > > > since it has > > > > > > > > > 1 degree already, it's just a > > > > matter of doing a little more math. > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 41475	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 6/26/2009
Subject: Re: 55 gallon community tank

Would thin cotton socks work to put the crushed coral in? They are brand new just pulled out of the bag... I didn't like the style and never wore them. I can use a zip tie to tie them shut. Amber Amber Berglund wrote: > > > Okay I will put some in one of the giant filter bags and maybe fold it > over or something for something to use for now, it's time for a filter > cleaning anyways, might as well add it while I'm in there ;) LOL. > How much more should I add since I put a few handfulls into the tank > itself? Should I add any at all? > > Amber > > Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > > > > > > Yes and no. While a higher KH and GH will often result in a higher > pH, it > > isn't automatic. For example, if you have a heavy bioload in a tank with > > lots of nitrifying bacterial action and decaying detritus putting > out lots > > of carbonic acid and CO2, then your pH will be lower because of all > of the > > acid and CO2. If you keep your gravel reasonably clean (if possible, > > depending on the substrate) and keep your filters well maintained > and your > > bioload isn't overwhelming, then yes, the pH of the tank shouldn't > be more > > than 0.4 difference from your tap water baseline. Then when doing a 25% > > PWC, it would only change the pH by 0.1 which is an acceptable immediate > > change in pH. Of course, in your case, the water comes out the tap > > with CO2 > > in it (more than likely) so even if your tank is at 6.0 pH and your > tap is > > at 6.5 pH, doing a 25% PWC would still only result in a 0.125 change in > > pH... still acceptable for an immediate change. Then as the CO2 outgases > > from the tap water that you added, the pH will rise a little more > over the > > next day or two but not enough to cause a problem. I'm sure, by > using the > > crushed coral, doing proper tank/filter maintenance and weekly > PWC's, your > > tank's pH will slowly climb up closer to your tap's pH. > > > > You would get better results with your crushed coral once you put it > in a > > filter media bag and inside your filter reservoir so it gets more water > > action going through it. The Grand Canyon didn't happen from slow moving > > water or stagnant water just sitting there... but fast moving water > > can cut > > through dirt and stone like a hot knife through butter, over time.. and > > thus, The Grand Canyon.... also what happens to a levee down here, > once it > > springs a small leak. ;-) > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>> > > (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right > > side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, > Month) > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On > > Behalf Of Amber Berglund > > Sent: Friday, June 26, 2009 11:57 AM > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] 55 gallon community tank > > > > I want to get my pH where it is closer to my tapwater baseline so I > won't > > stress out the fish too much doing PWC's. > > So to do that I'm going to have to maintain a higher KH and GH correct? > > > > Amber > > > > Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > > > > > > > > > Amber, > > > > > > Daily dosing is not required for GH/KH issues. BUT... for at least one > > > of the SeaChem products, Excel, I think daily dosing is at least > > suggested. > > > > > > If you went with the Oyster Flour, you would only have to daily dose > > > for the first week or so to bring the GH/KH levels up to where you > > > want them. > > > After > > > that, you would just dose the water you are putting back into the tank > > > after your weekly tank maintenance. > > > > > > Yes, using something like the crushed coral or cuttlebone means that > > > you would only have to fill a filter media bag and stick that in your > > > filter reservoir. Then check it on a weekly basis and top off the bag > > > whenever it starts to get low due to the media dissolving. > > > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>> > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>>> > > (Links to any articles referenced in > > > above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels > > > and also under Archives by Year, Month) > > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On Behalf Of Amber Berglund > > > Sent: Friday, June 26, 2009 10:05 AM > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] 55 gallon community tank > > > > > > I just did my baseline tests, initial tests had my pH at 6.5-6.6 and > > > GH was approx 100ppm , and KH was 18ppm or less (1 drop). > > > pH rose to 6.8 after 24 and 48 hours, GH lowered to 38ppm after 48 > > > hours and KH remained the same the whole time. > > > As you can see I have a little GH in my tap water, but hardly any KH > > > at all, so I'm trying to remedy this and get my tanks at a more > > > reasonable KH and GH level without having to dose the tank every day. > > > Let's put it this way, if I had to take daily meds to stay alive, I'd > > > probably forget and die... now lets not put someone in charge of daily > > > dosing on a tank that's very important for the health of the fish ;) > > LOL. > > > > > > Amber > > > > > > bill 1433 wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > Amber!!! Sorry! I forgot something, > > > > > > > > As Len just mentioned GH and KH in your tap water is very important > > > > to all of this. > > > > > > > > If you will remember back some time ago I went through all of this > > > > BUT, I had no GH or KH at all, natural spring, well water here. BUT > > > > I also have an extremely low pH, 5.5 to 5.7 naturally. > > > > > > > > All of this has a direct bearing on all tests. You must know for > > > > sure your starting or baseline readings for pH, GH and KH. > > > > > > > > The amount of your starting readings will greatly affect the > > > > over-all speed which any buffer or agent like the Oyster Flour, > > > > crushed coral will work. Mine was very fast because of the well > waters > > low pH. > > > > Yours may not be. Also please remember that I had no GH or KH to > > > > start with. This was my whole point in playing in the water. With a > > > > measurable amount of GH and KH I hoped to achieve a buffer to guard > > > > against pH spikes and drops.. > > > > > > > > Bill > > > > > > > > --- On Fri, 6/26/09, bill 1433 <warrenprint@... > <mailto:warrenprint%40yahoo.com> > > <mailto:warrenprint%40yahoo.com> > > > <mailto:warrenprint%40yahoo.com> > > > > <mailto:warrenprint%40yahoo.com>> wrote: > > > > > > > > > From: bill 1433 <warrenprint@... > <mailto:warrenprint%40yahoo.com> > > <mailto:warrenprint%40yahoo.com> > > > <mailto:warrenprint%40yahoo.com> > > > > > <mailto:warrenprint%40yahoo.com>> > > > > > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] 55 gallon community tank > > > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > Date: Friday, June 26, 2009, 9:30 AM > > > > > > > > > > Hi Amber, > > > > > > > > > > I am still trying to figure out exactly what your trying to do > here. > > > > > Sorry I lost your original post. But may I offer some food for > > > > > thought? > > > > > > > > > > First, here is a link and picture of the Oyster Shell Flour and > > > > > its > > > > > manufacture: > > > > > > > > > > http://www.downtoearthdistributors.com/oystershell.html > <http://www.downtoearthdistributors.com/oystershell.html> > > <http://www.downtoearthdistributors.com/oystershell.html > <http://www.downtoearthdistributors.com/oystershell.html>> > > > <http://www.downtoearthdistributors.com/oystershell.html > <http://www.downtoearthdistributors.com/oystershell.html> > > <http://www.downtoearthdistributors.com/oystershell.html > <http://www.downtoearthdistributors.com/oystershell.html>>> > > > > <http://www.downtoearthdistributors.com/oystershell.html > <http://www.downtoearthdistributors.com/oystershell.html> > > <http://www.downtoearthdistributors.com/oystershell.html > <http://www.downtoearthdistributors.com/oystershell.html>> > > > <http://www.downtoearthdistributors.com/oystershell.html > <http://www.downtoearthdistributors.com/oystershell.html> > > <http://www.downtoearthdistributors.com/oystershell.html > <http://www.downtoearthdistributors.com/oystershell.html>>>> > > > > > > > > > > Next, I am reading in the postings this morning that your adding > > > > > "hand fulls" of coral to the tank? > > > > > If you go to far (and I did, so I know) its the devil to get it > > > > > back out. Use some type of bag for control. > > > > > > > > > > And finally, on the bag itself, you can get a regular one for this > > > > > purpose at Dr's. here: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > http://pet-supplies.drsfostersmith.com/search?af=type%3Aproduct&ca > <http://pet-supplies.drsfostersmith.com/search?af=type%3Aproduct&ca> > > > <http://pet-supplies.drsfostersmith.com/search?af=type%3Aproduct&ca > <http://pet-supplies.drsfostersmith.com/search?af=type%3Aproduct&ca>> > > > > > > <http://pet-supplies.drsfostersmith.com/search?af=type%3Aproduct&c > <http://pet-supplies.drsfostersmith.com/search?af=type%3Aproduct&c> > > > <http://pet-supplies.drsfostersmith.com/search?af=type%3Aproduct&c > <http://pet-supplies.drsfostersmith.com/search?af=type%3Aproduct&c>> > > > a> > > > > rtcount=0&wishcount=0&subtotal=0.00&w=mesh+bag&asug=mesh > > > > > > > > > > <http://pet-supplies.drsfostersmith.com/search?af=type%3Aproduct&c > <http://pet-supplies.drsfostersmith.com/search?af=type%3Aproduct&c> > > > <http://pet-supplies.drsfostersmith.com/search?af=type%3Aproduct&c > <http://pet-supplies.drsfostersmith.com/search?af=type%3Aproduct&c>> > > > > > > <http://pet-supplies.drsfostersmith.com/search?af=type%3Aproduct&c > <http://pet-supplies.drsfostersmith.com/search?af=type%3Aproduct&c> > > > <http://pet-supplies.drsfostersmith.com/search?af=type%3Aproduct&c > <http://pet-supplies.drsfostersmith.com/search?af=type%3Aproduct&c>> > > > > > > > > artcount=0&wishcount=0&subtotal=0.00&w=mesh+bag&asug=mesh> > > > > > > > > > > Now if you are using your own, as Len mentioned, not Fish-Nets, > > > > > use real nylons. By that I mean stockings, not pantyhose. Why? > > > > > While I am not proficient in ladies wear, I am almost positive > > > > > that pantyhose products contain Spandex? I don't think you want > > > > > that chemical in your aquarium water as it could break down in > > > > > time and who knows were that could lead. Stay with anything that's > > > > > 100% nylon. > > > > > > > > > > "Playing in the Water" as I like to call it, is not advisable but > > > > > it can be done. If your taking readings and the proper notes, over > > > > > time you will develope a regular system and once your goals are > > > > > reached you will learn how much water to use in your regualr water > > > > > changes so as to not upset the balance you have acheieved. You > > > > > mentioned this morning about having that coral from the orginal > > > > > owner? > > > > > Please tell me you "sterlized" what portions you are using BEFORE > > > > > putting it into your aquarium? > > > > > > > > > > Bill > > > > > > > > > > --- On Fri, 6/26/09, Lenny V. aka GoldLenny > <GoldLenny@... <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com> > > <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com> > > > <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com> > > > > <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com>> > > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@... > <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com> > > <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com> > > > <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com> > > > > <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com>> > > > > > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] 55 gallon community tank > > > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > Date: Friday, June 26, 2009, 4:59 AM > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I've never seen a good article on the proper use of crushed coral. > > > > > I think there are so many variables that it's hard to know > > > > > precisely how much to use. It's probably something someone with > > > > > multiple tanks could do and keep accurate records over the course > > > > > of several months and then come up with some kind of formula, then > > > > > publish the formula to get more people trying it and reporting > > > > > back with their results to make sure the formula works for the > > masses. > > > > > > > > > > The problems that I see is that the more acidic the water, the > > > > > faster the coral would be dissolve BUT if the water is acidic and > > > > > has a high GH and low KH, then the calcium side of the coral would > > > > > not dissolve as fast. If the water is acidic and has a high KH and > > > > > low GH, then the carbonate side would not dissolve as fast. If the > > > > > water is not acidic, then the coral would dissolve much slower. Of > > > > > course, the flow rate of the water through the filter also has > > > > > some factor in the dissolve rate. I'm not sure how these variables > > > > > would affect how much should be used. I'm guessing there would > > > > > have to be a baseline established at 7.0 pH with moderate GH and > > > > > KH levels and then work up and down from there. One figure I've > > > > > seen posted in forums before was 1kg per 40 liters of water, when > > > > > used as in the substrate. That would translate to around 2 pounds > > > > > per 10G of water. > > > > > Obviously, not > > > > > something you could fit in a filter system. That's the other > > > > > problem for many folks. While folks with BIG canister filters > > > > > could use the crushed coral in a filter media bag in their filter > > > > > reservoir, this isn't possible with most of the smaller HOB's. > > > > > > > > > > I think it really comes down to each fishkeeper coming up with > > > > > their own "system" of how to use crushed coral or cuttlebone. > > > > > That's the good thing > > > > > about using things like Baking Soda and Oyster Flour... > > > > > they can be > > > > > precisely measured, dosed and measured with test kits to see that > > > > > they are doing what they are supposed to be doing. > > > > > > > > > > Of course, when things get too complicated... keep fish that like > > > > > your source water in the first place. Of course, when one wants to > > > > > have a heavily planted tank and/or keep fish that do not do well > > > > > with their baseline water, then these other measures become > > > > > necessary. > > > > > > > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > > > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>> > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>>> > > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>> > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>>>> > > > > > (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the > > > > > right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by > > > > > Year, Month) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] > > > > > On > > > > > Behalf Of Amber Berglund > > > > > Sent: Friday, June 26, 2009 12:44 AM > > > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] 55 gallon community tank > > > > > > > > > > most of the crushed coral is sold live, they're getting it > > > > > somewhere, hmmm... wonder where? ;) Should I wait to add any more > > > > > of the crushed coral? > > > > > I'm not sure how fast it would normally affect the GH or KH. > > > > > > > > > > Amber > > > > > > > > > > Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > OOHHHH.. so now we have a conspiracy of reef > > > > > destroyers. LOL > > > > > > > > > > > > I wonder where they get the "crushed coral" that is > > > > > sold? I see that > > > > > > the CaribSea brand is called Florida Crushed Coral. > > > > > With the > > > > > > protection that most places give to their coral reefs, > > > > > you would think > > > > > > that selling crushed coral would be a no-no. Florida > > > > > even has a > > > > > > section of their Dept. Of Environmental Protection > > > > > website talking > > > > > > about saving their reefs. > > > > > > > http://www.dep.state.fl.us/coastal/programs/coral/maritime.htm > <http://www.dep.state.fl.us/coastal/programs/coral/maritime.htm> > > <http://www.dep.state.fl.us/coastal/programs/coral/maritime.htm > <http://www.dep.state.fl.us/coastal/programs/coral/maritime.htm>> > > > <http://www.dep.state.fl.us/coastal/programs/coral/maritime.htm > <http://www.dep.state.fl.us/coastal/programs/coral/maritime.htm> > > <http://www.dep.state.fl.us/coastal/programs/coral/maritime.htm > <http://www.dep.state.fl.us/coastal/programs/coral/maritime.htm>>> > > > > <http://www.dep.state.fl.us/coastal/programs/coral/maritime.htm > <http://www.dep.state.fl.us/coastal/programs/coral/maritime.htm> > > <http://www.dep.state.fl.us/coastal/programs/coral/maritime.htm > <http://www.dep.state.fl.us/coastal/programs/coral/maritime.htm>> > > > <http://www.dep.state.fl.us/coastal/programs/coral/maritime.htm > <http://www.dep.state.fl.us/coastal/programs/coral/maritime.htm> > > <http://www.dep.state.fl.us/coastal/programs/coral/maritime.htm > <http://www.dep.state.fl.us/coastal/programs/coral/maritime.htm>>>> > > > > > > > > <http://www.dep.state.fl.us/coastal/programs/coral/maritime.htm > <http://www.dep.state.fl.us/coastal/programs/coral/maritime.htm> > > <http://www.dep.state.fl.us/coastal/programs/coral/maritime.htm > <http://www.dep.state.fl.us/coastal/programs/coral/maritime.htm>> > > > <http://www.dep.state.fl.us/coastal/programs/coral/maritime.htm > <http://www.dep.state.fl.us/coastal/programs/coral/maritime.htm> > > <http://www.dep.state.fl.us/coastal/programs/coral/maritime.htm > <http://www.dep.state.fl.us/coastal/programs/coral/maritime.htm>>> > > > > <http://www.dep.state.fl.us/coastal/programs/coral/maritime.htm > <http://www.dep.state.fl.us/coastal/programs/coral/maritime.htm> > > <http://www.dep.state.fl.us/coastal/programs/coral/maritime.htm > <http://www.dep.state.fl.us/coastal/programs/coral/maritime.htm>> > > > <http://www.dep.state.fl.us/coastal/programs/coral/maritime.htm > <http://www.dep.state.fl.us/coastal/programs/coral/maritime.htm> > > <http://www.dep.state.fl.us/coastal/programs/coral/maritime.htm > <http://www.dep.state.fl.us/coastal/programs/coral/maritime.htm>>>>> > > > > > > > > > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > > > > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>> > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>>> > > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>> > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>>>> > > > > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>> > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>>> > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>> > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>>>>> > > > > > > (Links > > > > > to any articles referenced in > > > > > > above reply are listed on the right side, > > > > > alphabetically under Labels > > > > > > and also under Archives by Year, Month) > > > > > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > > > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On > > > > > Behalf Of Amber Berglund > > > > > > Sent: Thursday, June 25, 2009 11:17 PM > > > > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] 55 gallon community tank > > > > > > > > > > > > I didn't destroy anything, it was given to me by the > > > > > previous owner of > > > > > > the > > > > > > 125 gallon tank, she was going to throw it away so I > > > > > said i would take > > > > > > it off of her hands, figured it may come in handy some > > > > > day ;) > > > > > > > > > > > > Amber > > > > > > > > > > > > Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Calcium would affect GH. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I'm not going to ask which reef you destroyed for > > > > > that garbage can > > > > > > > full of crushed coral.... and hopefully the > > > > > reef-huggers aren't > > > > > > > reading this thread. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > > > > > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>> > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>>> > > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>> > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>>>> > > > > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>> > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>>> > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>> > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>>>>> > > > > > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>>> > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>> > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>>>> > > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>> > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>>> > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>> > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>>>>>> > > > > > > (Links to any articles referenced in > > > > > > > above reply are listed on the right side, > > > > > alphabetically under > > > > > > > Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > > > > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On > > > > > Behalf Of Amber Berglund > > > > > > > Sent: Thursday, June 25, 2009 10:58 PM > > > > > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] 55 gallon community > > > > > tank > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I have a garbage can full of crushed coral ;) > > > > > LOL. > > > > > > > That's going to last me awhile for now, and it's > > > > > free. > > > > > > > I will figure out something different when I run > > > > > low on the crushed > > > > > > > coral ;) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Also no one answered my question about calcium > > > > > chloride, what does > > > > > > > it affect? GH or KH? I bought it for when I have > > > > > the snails, wanted > > > > > > > to have calcium on hand. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Amber > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > OK. If the crushed coral is raising it up > > > > > from the 33ppm range to > > > > > > > > the 75ppm range, then you are probably going > > > > > to be OK. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Crushed coral can/should raise both since > > > > > crushed coral is > > > > > > > > supposed to be calcium carbonate also. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Here's a snip from my calculations post in > > > > > the Ponds-Koi forum. Of > > > > > > > > course, this snip is dealing with something > > > > > like Oyster Flour > > > > > > > > which is immediately dissolvable in the > > > > > water column, not > > > > > > > > something you have to wait to break down > > > > > like crushed coral. The > > > > > > > > Carbonate could be dissolving so slowly that > > > > > your tank's ecology > > > > > > > > is using it up faster or as fast as it is > > > > > being released. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > "...Two teaspoons (about 4 grams) > > > > > of calcium carbonate > > > > > > > > > > (CaCO3) per 50 liters of water > > > > > will increase both KH and GH by > > > > > > > > > > 4 degrees..." from > > > > http://www.thekrib.com/Plants/CO2/khgh.html > <http://www.thekrib.com/Plants/CO2/khgh.html> > > <http://www.thekrib.com/Plants/CO2/khgh.html > <http://www.thekrib.com/Plants/CO2/khgh.html>> > > > <http://www.thekrib.com/Plants/CO2/khgh.html > <http://www.thekrib.com/Plants/CO2/khgh.html> > > <http://www.thekrib.com/Plants/CO2/khgh.html > <http://www.thekrib.com/Plants/CO2/khgh.html>>> > > > > > and since > > > > > > > > > > raising it 4 degrees is kind of > > > > > where we want to raise it > > > > > > > > > > since it has > > > > > > > > > > 1 degree already, it's just a > > > > > matter of doing a little more math. > > > > > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 41476	From: Raymond Wetzel	Date: 6/26/2009
Subject: Re: Angels Please help???

It's never a good idea to add chemicals (tablets, etc.) of any sort unless it's absolutely necessary. With doing a PWC (and I wish I knew how much), you ammonia should be down from 1.0 ppm unless your cycle is not working well enough to convert the ammonia that is being given off by your present fish -- or unless there is another source (dead fish, dead plants or excess food) of the ammonia which you're not aware of. How many other fish do you have and what's their size. How large is the tank? As your cycle may have been interupted, with your ammonia-converting bacteria being reduced, you'll need ammonia in the water column temporarily to feed new bacteria and have them multiply to again be able to take care of such ammonia levels. Your fish will be perfectly safe from any potential toxic affects of the ammonia as long as your pH remains stable (at 6.6). As I mentioned it would have helped you to know if the PWC did reduce the ammonia level at the time you changed the water. Since you don't know, now you have no way of knowing if it was reduced and if something else is adding ammonia to your water to have brought it back up to 1.0 ppm. Certainly, any appreciable water change should have removed a fair portion of the ammonia, then further diluted it when you added the new water -- unless your tap water's chloramine has near a 1.0 ppm of ammonia -- and if that's the case, you need to wait until the bacteria have rebuilt their population enough to convert this level of it. Unless your tap water's pH is around 7.8, you shouldn't have a problem of your pH going to the alkaline side when doing PWC's unless they're really excessive. Keep an eye on your ammonia level to see that it doesn't go much higher. Give us a new pH reading after this last PWC -- and tell us how much water you change during a PWC. Check out the tank for any other possible ammonia sources, and give us the test results of your tap water's ammonia level. If it is the same, don't bother doing a PWC. IF it's much lower you may do another PWC tomorrow, giving us the ammonia level reading right afterwards -- and then again the following day. BTW, my brother's Angelfish also looked healthy and ate too, right up until it died a month later. Oh, I didn't tell you, his LFS (Walmart) admitted that each time they got Angels in, they would lose most of them within a week and the unaccounted for ones had already been sold so they didn't know if they made it or not, but they did have at least a few complaints. I guess the other people just didn't complain, which can be expected sometimes. Ray --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, Joellen & Kevin Analla <anallafamily.2001@...> wrote: > > Well i just got done testing my water and ammonia is still at 1.0, should i go buy an ammonia tablet that removes ammonia? the 2 angels are still alive and eating and appear to look healthy still waiting tho. Ph is still low at 6.6 and nitrite is good. ...Jo > > --- On Fri, 6/26/09, Raymond Wetzel <sevenspringss@...> wrote: > > > From: Raymond Wetzel <sevenspringss@...> > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Angels Please help??? > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Date: Friday, June 26, 2009, 10:52 AM > > > > > > > > > I meant to add something to this, but sent it before I thought of completing it. Anyway, in short -- it appeared as though you had a mini-cycle (like your tank was not properly cycled at the time to be able to handle the ammonia). > > Now, as for water changes, while it's alway best to keep your ammonia at a minimum, you don't want to remove it all physically before your ammonia-converting bacteria have had a chance to utilize it to build up their population to a proper level -- to re-cycle your tank. > > Then too, I don't know the pH of your tap water and how much each PWC will affect your present pH reading. As I've stated before, your fish are safe with a 1.0 ppm level of total Ammonia at a pH of 6.6. It would take quite a bit of PWCing to change your pH drastically enough so that this Ammonia would be toxic to your fish, even if your tap water were at pH 7.8. You should know though, that besides the pH affecting the toxicity of Ammonia, the temperature also plays a role in it. > > At 68 o, this level (1.0 ppm) of total ammonia does not become toxic until the pH falls to 7.7. At 74 o, a pH of 7.6 is required to make the Ammonia toxic (creating/convertin g enough free-Ammonia from the Ammonium) and at a temperature of 80 o, this same level of Ammonia will become toxic at pH 7.5. It will not be lethal though, until the temperature gets to 85 o at pH 7.6. This is on average as each species is affected a bit differently by Ammonia, some being a bit more intolerant than others, but it's sufficiently in the ball park. Ray > > --- In AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com, Joellen & Kevin Analla <anallafamily. 2001@> wrote: > > > > Well as I know there is no exact amount of time for a tank to cycle it has been set up for at least 2 mo. and before I put angels in it I tested ammonia and it was ok. The ammonia levels have raised only since the fish have been dieing. Well yesterday I did a partial water change to try and lower ammonia levels. I have yet to test it this morning to see if it helped. Jo > > > > --- On Thu, 6/25/09, Raymond Wetzel <sevenspringss@ ...> wrote: > > > > > > From: Raymond Wetzel <sevenspringss@ ...> > > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Angels Please help??? > > To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com > > Date: Thursday, June 25, 2009, 9:59 AM > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Hi Amber, Going with everything I read of Jo's postings on the scenario of this whole situation, yes, I can only conclude with a good deal of certainty that here fish are dying as a result of this infection. This terrible disease was prevalent some 15 to 20 years ago, first eminating, then spreading friom the Far East. While I've lived through this period and have experienced this whole sequence of events day to day of the hobby being so adversely affected by this disease, this is not my reason for my coming to this conclusion. Devastating as it was, I am not an alarmist. > > > > Others here, who may never have heard of this disease (or who may have, but think this is now past history), cannot know that this disease still survives today in Angelfish from Angelfish stocks still being produced in those areas (Asia & Florida) where the disease originated and then was most prevalent. This disease was never conquered. The Far Eastern Angelfish breeders were never completely wiped out (even though extremely affected by hugh losses) to the point that they started back completely fresh with completely all new stock. The Angelfish stock that they were left with, that finally survived the onslaught due to their immunity system finally coping with this disease is the same stock they continued with -- now a necessarily stronger breeder stock for them and the Florida fish farmers, in that they have a higher immune system to be able to deal with this virus that co-exists with them in their systems. > > > > However, even though the juveniles from this stock (possibly the 4th or 5th generation by now, from when this first started) are expose to this virus early on in their lives -- their immune systems having to have built up against this disease as they grew to selling size -- the stress of shipping when combined with the constant battle of their immune systems having to deal with this ever-present virus in their systems (due to its ongoing presence in their environment) is just too much for them to endure. The influences of both stresses soon take their toll, manifested as losses within 6 or 7 days for most of the stock that were subjected to the stress of shipping. Any other Angels that seemingly were not quite as affected/stressed by shipping immediately may live a short while later, but by this time the virus is now overpowering their immune system to the point of eventually (often within the month) killing them. Obviously, introducing any Angels in > > with these infected fish during this time of them living in limbo is to be subjecting these new Angels to a disease they've never seen and have no defence at all for, with the inevitable loss of them as well. The infected environment is just as deadly to any new Angels, even without the presence of infected fish, until this environment is disinfected. This disease still persists today -- it has never been irradiacated and is an unfortunate situation for an unsuspecting hobbyist who has no previous knowledge of it, when they buy such fish from those sources (like Walmart) which persist in selling them only because these fish are the lowest price their management can find to contract with. It's a very dangerous situation. > > > > Now, getting back to these other points you've brought up, which need addressing. While, as \\Steve// says, ideally no ammonia should be permitted to exist, and while Jo's ammonia level of 1.0 ppm does certainly appear to be the direct result of an uncycled tank (since ammonia has shown to build up in her tank from 0.0 ppm to 1.0 ppm, yet is not being converted to nitrite) still, with Jo's ph at between 6.5 (original post) and 6.6 (follow-up post) any and all Ammonia would be in the form or relatively harmless Ammonium -- not affecting the Angelfish detrimentally in the least -- so we can rule this out, if that's what you need done. I cannot condone the use of buffers to lower the pH either, and again go right along with \\Steve// on this. Not only as it's not at all needed (especially in this situation of maintaining Angelfish) but can lead to serious consequences such as unstable pH levels and/or even possible pH crashes as \\Steve// points out. > > > > Still, I see no evidence of Jo having to add any additional amounts of pH buffer between PWC's because of the buffer being exhausted, nor have I seen any high pH level readings, although there still may have been some between PWC's, which may not have been tested for. Likewise, I have fortunately not seen evidence of a pH crash, nor any possible cause for pH shock as a result of such a crash. Jo's methods of acclimating may leave more to be desired even though the concept is correct as, unless she has not given a full description, this tank water introduction to the bucket containing the fish does seem to be too abbreviated. Full acclimation requires more than one or two cups of new water over a period of 15 minutes (as I seem to perceive from her post), but it's possible she may just not have gone into the repetition of this procedure. > > > > In all, with taking into consideration all possible negative points you've brought up and needed to have addressed, or that \\Steve// or I could think of to be ruled out, I cannot see where any of these other possibilities could enter into consideration -- especially when realizing that these deaths were not a one-time occurance, but have repeatedly happened with each numerous addition of new Angelfish in the many attempts to introduce them to her tank. One might be able to say that in isolated incidences, that a certain batch of Angelfish may have been pH-shocked, or that another batch of Angelfish may have been inadvertantly subjected to lethal levels of ammonia at some point -- which appears quite remote, even if I'm reaching for straws -- but when repeated batches of Angelfish die for no other apparent reason there is a pattern that develops which to me has no other answer than this Virus by what is occurring -- when looking at all other details > > involved in this picture. I've seen it too many times to not ignore it, nor mistake it for anything else. Ray > > > > --- In AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com, Amber Berglund <amber@> wrote: > > > > > > Ray are you sure that his fish are dying to this infection rather than > > > dying from ammonia poisoning from an uncycled tank? Not to mention he > > > used a pH adjusting buffer to lower his pH... > > > This might just be a lack of experience too I would think it's possible > > > at least. We should at least rule those out before rushing into thinking > > > it's a serious problem right from the bat (the Angelfish infection). > > > > > > Amber > > > > > > Raymond Wetzel wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > By your post, it appears that you've taken the time to read over my > > > > message on the topic, so you could finally understand it -- which I > > > > appreciate your doing, as it will only benefit yourself. Your two > > > > remaining Angelfish stand a better chance of dying a premature death, > > > > and that death may come even sooner than later. I have seen other > > > > hobbyists maintaining a few remnant Angels from such origins after the > > > > rest of the original stocks of them had perished, only to pass on > > > > within the following month (or two, at the latest). You may try to > > > > return these two Angels for store credit, if they'll allow it, but > > > > otherwise, you'd need to keep only these two until something happens > > > > to them. > > > > > > > > To add any Angelfish from other sources to these two Angelfish, would > > > > be to subject them to an infection that they have no immunity for, > > > > with the inevitable results of their dying from this, and quite fast. > > > > If you want more Angels, and if you want healthy Angels, there is no > > > > other choice than to put them in a clean, disinfected tank that you're > > > > sure does not contain any disease -- which requires that these two > > > > Angelfish no longer inhabit this tank, one way or another. > > > > > > > > IF there is a better way (and I know of no other way), I would be more > > > > than pleased to tell you. As for knowing that a fish will be okay, I > > > > can only tell you this -- that I, nor anyone else, cannot say with > > > > 100% certainty that your two remaining Angelfish are not okay -- it's > > > > impossible for me to be able to do that from where I am (not within > > > > reach of your fish) or without the benefit of a slide smear of this > > > > fish's waste to evaluate under the microscope. But ALL things you've > > > > related about these fish and their deceased siblings, including their > > > > source, the suddenness of their demise and the repetition of these > > > > same circumstances spells out for me with enough certainty with all > > > > I've experienced and learned of this very disease, that this is indeed > > > > the dreaded fatal pathogen that has plagued Angelfish ongoing from a > > > > quarter century ago. > > > > > > > > I could choose to see your Angelfish loses as just the chance results > > > > of poorer than required water conditions combined with your possible > > > > inexperience with them and the luck of the draw along with the > > > > inevitableness of young Angels dying en-mass for unexplained reasons > > > > not unrelated to your general lack of aquarium knowledge at this stage > > > > of the game -- as some here may be suggesting -- but to do so would be > > > > to go against everything I've learned about Angelfish in 62 years of > > > > working with them, and living through the horrid period of decimation > > > > of these fish through the spread of this Virus. > > > > > > > > I've seen many, many cases of this virus striking Angelfish and have > > > > known many Angelfish breeders who were effected by the devastation of > > > > it and the experiences they've gone through during the peak period > > > > when this Virus was at its worst. > > > > > > > > AND . . . > > > > > > > > I have seen in TODAY's WORLD, the EXACT same thing as you are > > > > describing happening to you, of Angelfish being sold by Walmart (and > > > > others) which are infected by this virus and which have been dropping > > > > otherwise unexplainedly like flies -- INCLUDING having one or two fish > > > > temporarily survive this onslault only to died within the following > > > > month. I DO NOT think this is all coincidental. My brother (who had > > > > yet to learn of this disease) experienced the VERY things with young > > > > Angelfish he recently bought from Walmart a couple of months ago, > > > > amost word for word. In his case, his lone surviving Angel lasted > > > > another 3 weeks after the first ones died -- and he knows about > > > > keeping fish properly. Many of my customers (fish store owners who > > > > purchase my Angelfish) have told me of the quality of Angelfish (and > > > > the Virus they still carry) they've bought in the recent past from > > > > both Florida and directly from the Far East that just fold up on them > > > > within a week's time, often resulting in complete losses -- the > > > > unaccounted for ones having already been sold prior to the end of the > > > > week. These sources and the Angelfish Virus they promote through > > > > selling infected fish are still notorious for spreading this disease > > > > with the help of unknowing dealers and hobbyists even today. > > > > > > > > Of course, you do not need to believe me, but then it would be folly > > > > to continue in the manner you're attempting to add Angelfish to your > > > > tank in hopes they'll survive. For all we know though, without having > > > > your two Angelfish analyzed, they may be the healthiest Angels on > > > > earth -- But I wouldn't want to bet the farm on it! > > > > > > > > I suggested to you what needs to be done to succeed. You may follow > > > > this advice, or you may ignore it -- that's your decision. When buying > > > > from a different source, a reputable breeder who has reliably supplied > > > > quality disease-free Angelfish for many years simply cannot afford to > > > > risk selling diseased Angelfish, and still have his business and > > > > reputation survive. IF contemplating buying from such a known and > > > > reputable dealer, you need to make sure whom you are dealing with. > > > > There are many reputable Angelfish breeders in existance, but with > > > > your not having the experience to know which are the better ones, you > > > > may not know yet who to buy from with confidence. I WILL tell you that > > > > you can't expect to pay Walmart prices and still get good fish. A lot > > > > of work goes into raising these Angelfish and as a result these > > > > breeders will (need) to charge more, but a good breeder will be fair > > > > -- he does not need to price-gouge. If you're still following up on > > > > this, and need further advise, there are a number of people here who > > > > can best assist you with recommending breeders of quality Angels. I > > > > can start by wholeheartedly recommending Steve Rybicki of Angels Plus > > > > as one whom I can vouch for selling disease-free Angelfish; Steve's > > > > been in the business for at least 25 years. Ray > > > > > > > > --- In AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife %40yahoogroups. com>, Joellen & Kevin Analla > > > > <anallafamily. 2001@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > So basically what your saying is that all fish in tank (2Angels) > > > > must die then i need to disinfect all equipment then start all over > > > > buying from a different source but theres no garanteen that even a > > > > differant source could still get infected in that case i would have to > > > > repeat process agian......Really isnt there a better way, or even a > > > > way of knowing that fish will be ok . > > > > > > > > > > --- On Wed, 6/24/09, Raymond Wetzel <sevenspringss@ > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > From: Raymond Wetzel <sevenspringss@ > > > > > > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Angels Please help??? > > > > > To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com <mailto:AquaticLife %40yahoogroups. com> > > > > > Date: Wednesday, June 24, 2009, 1:33 AM > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Hello Jo, So sorry you are running into this frustrating experience > > > > in trying to keep Angelfish, when the species is not difficult to > > > > maintain. Ordinarily, we would ask just what you meant (and will still > > > > do this) when you say that your water is all testing okay. When giving > > > > us any of your data concerning your water parameters, we prefer to > > > > have number to be evaluate your circumstances, and the actual test > > > > results in ppm (parts per million) best reflect your actual > > > > conditions. If you could give us your test results for pH, ammonia, > > > > nitrite and even nitrate, it could be a great help. If you can provide > > > > results for temporary hardness (KH) and total/general hardness (GH), > > > > this may be of further assistance to us -- the more information, the > > > > better. BUT, in this particular case, I do not believe it's your water > > > > quality that's at fault, even though we need to rule that out. > > > > > > > > > > Most unfortunately, new prospective Angelfish hobbyists will run > > > > into this situation when buying from retailers who prefer obtaining > > > > their Angelfish stocks indiscriminantly, possibly in an effort to save > > > > money or perhaps just for the convenience. However, in buying in > > > > essence what can be established as inferior stock, I fail to see what > > > > they think they gain. Unfortunately too, the customer (you) is too > > > > often unsuspecting of this possibility and blame the deaths of these > > > > fish on themselves, when in truth it's the poor stock itself that > > > > these outlets continue to retail -- despite the many losses they > > > > themselves have with each re-stocking. > > > > > > > > > > These retailers know that they will not be alienating their > > > > customers, as these customers are completely unaware that this stock > > > > is inferior, and in their quest to maintain this beautiful species, > > > > they repeatedly buy new stock in hopes they can keep them alive. Some > > > > of the larger chain stores (and some smaller shops) operate in this > > > > manner, Walmart having been one of them until they gave up selling > > > > tropical fish; these stores continuing to buy their Angels only from > > > > preferred sources which may include a headquarter- -designated > > > > distributor, a Florida fish farm, a local wholesaler that buys from > > > > either Florida or the Far East, or a Far East breeding establishment- > > > > -exporter -- rather than a reputable domestic breeder. > > > > > > > > > > Now, getting to the root of this practice and its problem. Going > > > > back some 15 years or slightly more, there was a major outbreak of a > > > > horrific Angelfish Virus disease originating in the Far East, > > > > decimating Angelfish stocks there as well as in this country when it > > > > was introduced here through imports of that stock into this country. > > > > Many domestic Angelfish breeders in this country were wiped out or at > > > > least partially effected, not suspecting this problem, and mixed that > > > > stock with theirs. The problem didn't stop there in this country as a > > > > good number of the Florida fish farmers also introduced this diseased > > > > Asian stock of Angelfish to their hatcheries in efforts to strengthen > > > > their own stocks with "new blood," not yet knowing the consequences > > > > they would have to pay. > > > > > > > > > > Gradually, this disease was finally contained although never > > > > completely cured. Those Asian stocks that survived were strengthened > > > > by natural selection to be able to remain viable while still carrying > > > > th Virus as a latent disease always present but under control of these > > > > latest Angelfish's adapted immune systems. This same adaptation of the > > > > Angelfish's immune system to contain this Virus as of late, also > > > > emerged from those Florida fish farm's stocks which were similarly > > > > effected. > > > > > > > > > > As a result, most any Angelfish derived today from either those > > > > effected Florida fish farms or those Far Eastern hatchery/exporters > > > > carry this Virus as a weaker (as controlled now by these Angels' new > > > > but limited immunity), yet still viable disease still capable of > > > > overtaking the Angelfish as soon as receieves enough stress. This > > > > shared (but not mutually beneficial where the fish is concerned) > > > > existance is called "symbiosis," and is seen also in many Cichlids -- > > > > including Angelfish -- as Hexamita, where this protozoan resides in a > > > > latent condition in the fish's intestine, only to overtake the fish > > > > when the fish experiences sufficient stress for it to do so. > > > > > > > > > > So, now when these Angelfish (carrying this disease) reach your > > > > local fish store, they look fine at first and appear most healthy. > > > > However, the stress of shipping soon takes its toll over the next week > > > > as the disease now devastates these stressed and weakened fish. These > > > > fish are not expected to last much more than an average of 6 or 7 days > > > > as a result of what happens with them. Likewise, many (most?) of the > > > > same fish in these stores that stock them soon die also (they are > > > > KNOWN to fold up), but the storekeeper has still made his profit and > > > > has "satisfied" his customers, which causes them to keep coming back > > > > to those stores. > > > > > > > > > > If any of this rings a bell for you, you may finally be > > > > understanding what's happening with your Angelfish. A few, such as the > > > > two you have that survived so far will live for an undetermined period > > > > of time, but their days are still numbered (could live for another few > > > > weeks or so). If you still want to keep Angelfish, you cannot continue > > > > to buy them from this present source as they'll meet the same fate, > > > > nor can you add any other Angelfish to this tank from a different > > > > source as they'll become infected. I really hate to have to suggest > > > > this, and I don't know if you have any other species of fish presently > > > > in this tank, but before you add any more Angels -- and they MUST be > > > > from a reputable domestic breeder -- this tank and all its equipment > > > > must be disinfected after these two remaining Angels secumb. I hope > > > > this whole scenario of events as pertains to Angelfish has been at > > > > least enlightening for you, and will serve to assist you in the future > > > > (we'll > > > > > still be here to help). I regret that since you most probably have > > > > introduced disease-carrying Angelfish unknowingly, that you'll have a > > > > long road ahead of you in maintaining your goal, but at least now you > > > > know what to expect. Please keep us posted, Ray > > > > > > > > > > --- In AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com, "anallafamily. 2001" > > > > <anallafamily. 2001@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > I'm new to the group so just let me know if I say or do something > > > > not right...... > > > > > > My Question.... I wanted to start up an angel tank so I have a > > > > 55gal set up.. I keep buying 5 angels at a time and they keep dying > > > > slowly but surely.. I think altogether I have bought 16 Angels and I > > > > have managed to get 2 to live for at least 6 days now. I have plenty > > > > of filtration and water flow, I have ph at 6.5 and water is all > > > > testing ok... So what am I doing wrong? and should I go get more since > > > > I got 2 to live uhhhhhh What do I do I feel like I want to give up but > > > > I really thought they were such a beautiful fish. > > > > > > Please Help Jo.. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 41477	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 6/26/2009
Subject: Re: Angels Please help???

OK. I should have also asked for your nitrAte reading. That would be the final number needed to know if the tank is "cycling" properly. In fact, it's best to do all four tests at the same time (ammonia, nitrite, nitrate, pH) and water temp too. If you are still getting an ammonia reading and your nitrite is 0.0 and your nitrates are climbing, then that means the tank is cycling but it means something happened to cause the ammonia eating bacteria to falter. If there is only an ammonia reading and 0.0 for nitrite and 0.0 for nitrate, then that means the tank is probably not cycling properly. If we find out your tank isn't cycling properly, then MAYBE the cause of death to your angelfish could be related to cycling issues and ammonia poisoning but if your tank is cycling properly, then things lean heavily back towards Ray's explanation. Even if your tank isn't cycling properly, it could still be the disease that Ray talked about and the ammonia poisoning just caused the weaker fish to succumb even quicker. Based on all that Ray has said, you should DEFINITELY wait another month or so to make sure your remaining two angelfish survive. Once they seem healthy and we know your tank is fully cycled properly, then you can start looking for a new source of fish. And even if you do find a new source, you should still quarantine the new fish for up to a month or so to make sure they remain healthy before you risk adding them to your current tank. Of course, if Ray is correct about the disease issue, then even after you add the fish to the main tank, they could contract the disease and succumb to it. Of course, you could try adding some of your main tank water to the quarantine tank, maybe a cup or two a day, to see if the new fish might be able to build up a resistance to the suspected disease... kind of like a vaccination works on us humans and other pets. This is only a theory so wait for Ray to chime in on whether this would be a workable plan or not. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Joellen & Kevin Analla Sent: Friday, June 26, 2009 1:07 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: Angels Please help??? nitrite is at 0.0...im sorry. So because Ray says its a virus that killed all but 2 angels, how long should i wait before trying to add more from a different source of course....Jo --- On Fri, 6/26/09, Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@...> wrote: From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@...> Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: Angels Please help??? To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Date: Friday, June 26, 2009, 12:37 PM As Ray has stated, your ammonia level of 1.0, at pH 6.6, is not toxic or even harmful to them, unless your tank water is REALLY warm. As long as it is around 78-80F, then you are OK. The toxicity of ammonia is affected by pH and temperature, the higher the pH and higher the temperature, the more ammonia becomes toxic. Here is a site that has charts showing the toxicity level of ammonia at the various pH levels. http://dataguru. org/misc/ aquarium/ AmmoniaTox. html When you say "nitrite is good", what is the actual test result? Anything over 0.0ppm is NOT good. All of this said, it's still best that a fish tank be fully cycled when adding new fish and that the ammonia/nitrite levels be monitored on a daily basis after adding new fish to make sure the "Cycle" is able to keep up with the added bioload. If the ammonia/nitrite start to spike to dangerous levels, then PWC's would be needed. Adding a pinch of salt, per 10G, will also help to prevent nitrite poisoning (brown blood disorder) during these cycling issues. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com [mailto:AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com] On Behalf Of Joellen & Kevin Analla Sent: Friday, June 26, 2009 10:14 AM To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: Angels Please help??? Well i just got done testing my water and amoniais still at 1.0, should i go buy an amonia tablet that removes amonia? the 2 angels are still alive and eating and appear to look healthy still waiting tho. Ph is still low at 6.6 and nitrite is good. ...Jo --- On Fri, 6/26/09, Raymond Wetzel <sevenspringss@ wmconnect. com> wrote: From: Raymond Wetzel <sevenspringss@ wmconnect. com> Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Angels Please help??? To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com Date: Friday, June 26, 2009, 10:52 AM I meant to add something to this, but sent it before I thought of completing it. Anyway, in short -- it appeared as though you had a mini-cycle (like your tank was not properly cycled at the time to be able to handle the ammonia). Now, as for water changes, while it's alway best to keep your ammonia at a minimum, you don't want to remove it all physically before your ammonia-converting bacteria have had a chance to utilize it to build up their population to a proper level -- to re-cycle your tank. Then too, I don't know the pH of your tap water and how much each PWC will affect your present pH reading. As I've stated before, your fish are safe with a 1.0 ppm level of total Ammonia at a pH of 6.6. It would take quite a bit of PWCing to change your pH drastically enough so that this Ammonia would be toxic to your fish, even if your tap water were at pH 7.8. You should know though, that besides the pH affecting the toxicity of Ammonia, the temperature also plays a role in it. At 68 o, this level (1.0 ppm) of total ammonia does not become toxic until the pH falls to 7.7. At 74 o, a pH of 7.6 is required to make the Ammonia toxic (creating/convertin g enough free-Ammonia from the Ammonium) and at a temperature of 80 o, this same level of Ammonia will become toxic at pH 7.5. It will not be lethal though, until the temperature gets to 85 o at pH 7.6. This is on average as each species is affected a bit differently by Ammonia, some being a bit more intolerant than others, but it's sufficiently in the ball park. Ray --- In AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com, Joellen & Kevin Analla <anallafamily. 2001@...> wrote: > > Well as I know there is no exact amount of time for a tank to cycle it > has been set up for at least 2 mo. and before I put angels in it I > tested ammonia and it was ok. The ammonia levels have raised only > since the fish have been dieing. Well yesterday I did a partial water > change to try and lower ammonia levels. I have yet to test it this > morning to see if it helped. Jo > > --- On Thu, 6/25/09, Raymond Wetzel <sevenspringss@ ...> wrote: > > > From: Raymond Wetzel <sevenspringss@ ...> > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Angels Please help??? > To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com > Date: Thursday, June 25, 2009, 9:59 AM > > > > > > > > > Hi Amber, Going with everything I read of Jo's postings on the > scenario of this whole situation, yes, I can only conclude with a good deal of certainty that here fish are dying as a result of this infection. This terrible disease was prevalent some 15 to 20 years ago, first eminating, then spreading friom the Far East. While I've lived through this period and have experienced this whole sequence of events day to day of the hobby being so adversely affected by this disease, this is not my reason for my coming to this conclusion. Devastating as it was, I am not an alarmist. > > Others here, who may never have heard of this disease (or who may > have, but think this is now past history), cannot know that this disease still survives today in Angelfish from Angelfish stocks still being produced in those areas (Asia & Florida) where the disease originated and then was most prevalent. This disease was never conquered. The Far Eastern Angelfish breeders were never completely wiped out (even though extremely affected by hugh losses) to the point that they started back completely fresh with completely all new stock. The Angelfish stock that they were left with, that finally survived the onslaught due to their immunity system finally coping with this disease is the same stock they continued with -- now a necessarily stronger breeder stock for them and the Florida fish farmers, in that they have a higher immune system to be able to deal with this virus that co-exists with them in their systems. > > However, even though the juveniles from this stock (possibly the 4th > or 5th generation by now, from when this first started) are expose to > this virus early on in their lives -- their immune systems having to have built up against this disease as they grew to selling size -- the stress of shipping when combined with the constant battle of their immune systems having to deal with this ever-present virus in their systems (due to its ongoing presence in their environment) is just too much for them to endure. The influences of both stresses soon take their toll, manifested as losses within 6 or 7 days for most of the stock that were subjected to the stress of shipping. Any other Angels that seemingly were not quite as affected/stressed by shipping immediately may live a short while later, but by this time the virus is now overpowering their immune system to the point of eventually (often within the month) killing them. Obviously, introducing any Angels in with these infected fish during this time of them living in limbo is to be subjecting these new Angels to a disease they've never seen and have no defence at all for, with the inevitable loss of them as well. The infected environment is just as deadly to any new Angels, even without the presence of infected fish, until this environment is disinfected. This disease still persists today -- it has never been irradiacated and is an unfortunate situation for an unsuspecting hobbyist who has no previous knowledge of it, when they buy such fish from those sources (like Walmart) which persist in selling them only because these fish are the lowest price their management can find to contract with. It's a very dangerous situation. > > Now, getting back to these other points you've brought up, which need addressing. While, as \\Steve// says, ideally no ammonia should be permitted to exist, and while Jo's ammonia level of 1.0 ppm does certainly appear to be the direct result of an uncycled tank (since ammonia has shown to build up in her tank from 0.0 ppm to 1.0 ppm, yet is not being converted to nitrite) still, with Jo's ph at between 6.5 (original post) and 6.6 (follow-up post) any and all Ammonia would be in the form or relatively harmless Ammonium -- not affecting the Angelfish detrimentally in the least -- so we can rule this out, if that's what you need done. I cannot condone the use of buffers to lower the pH either, and again go right along with \\Steve// on this. Not only as it's not at all needed (especially in this situation of maintaining Angelfish) but can lead to serious consequences such as unstable pH levels and/or even possible pH crashes as \\Steve// points out. > > Still, I see no evidence of Jo having to add any additional amounts of > pH buffer between PWC's because of the buffer being exhausted, nor have I seen any high pH level readings, although there still may have been some between PWC's, which may not have been tested for. Likewise, I have fortunately not seen evidence of a pH crash, nor any possible cause for pH shock as a result of such a crash. Jo's methods of acclimating may leave more to be desired even though the concept is correct as, unless she has not given a full description, this tank water introduction to the bucket containing the fish does seem to be too abbreviated. Full acclimation requires more than one or two cups of new water over a period of 15 minutes (as I seem to perceive from her post), but it's possible she may just not have gone into the repetition of this procedure. > > In all, with taking into consideration all possible negative points > you've brought up and needed to have addressed, or that \\Steve// or I > could think of to be ruled out, I cannot see where any of these other > possibilities could enter into consideration -- especially when > realizing that these deaths were not a one-time occurance, but have > repeatedly happened with each numerous addition of new Angelfish in > the many attempts to introduce them to her tank. One might be able to > say that in isolated incidences, that a certain batch of Angelfish may > have been pH-shocked, or that another batch of Angelfish may have been > inadvertantly subjected to lethal levels of ammonia at some point -- > which appears quite remote, even if I'm reaching for straws -- but > when repeated batches of Angelfish die for no other apparent reason > there is a pattern that develops which to me has no other answer than > this Virus by what is occurring -- when looking at all other details > involved in this picture. I've seen it too many times to not ignore > it, nor mistake it for anything else. Ray > > --- In AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com, Amber Berglund <amber@> wrote: > > > > Ray are you sure that his fish are dying to this infection rather > > than dying from ammonia poisoning from an uncycled tank? Not to > > mention he used a pH adjusting buffer to lower his pH... > > This might just be a lack of experience too I would think it's > > possible at least. We should at least rule those out before rushing > > into thinking it's a serious problem right from the bat (the > > Angelfish infection). > > > > Amber > > > > Raymond Wetzel wrote: > > > > > > > > > By your post, it appears that you've taken the time to read over > > > my message on the topic, so you could finally understand it -- > > > which I appreciate your doing, as it will only benefit yourself. > > > Your two remaining Angelfish stand a better chance of dying a > > > premature death, and that death may come even sooner than later. I > > > have seen other hobbyists maintaining a few remnant Angels from > > > such origins after the rest of the original stocks of them had > > > perished, only to pass on within the following month (or two, at > > > the latest). You may try to return these two Angels for store > > > credit, if they'll allow it, but otherwise, you'd need to keep > > > only these two until something happens to them. > > > > > > To add any Angelfish from other sources to these two Angelfish, > > > would be to subject them to an infection that they have no > > > immunity for, with the inevitable results of their dying from > > > this, and quite fast. > > > If you want more Angels, and if you want healthy Angels, there is > > > no other choice than to put them in a clean, disinfected tank that > > > you're sure does not contain any disease -- which requires that > > > these two Angelfish no longer inhabit this tank, one way or another. > > > > > > IF there is a better way (and I know of no other way), I would be > > > more than pleased to tell you. As for knowing that a fish will be > > > okay, I can only tell you this -- that I, nor anyone else, cannot > > > say with 100% certainty that your two remaining Angelfish are not > > > okay -- it's impossible for me to be able to do that from where I > > > am (not within reach of your fish) or without the benefit of a > > > slide smear of this fish's waste to evaluate under the microscope. > > > But ALL things you've related about these fish and their deceased > > > siblings, including their source, the suddenness of their demise > > > and the repetition of these same circumstances spells out for me > > > with enough certainty with all I've experienced and learned of > > > this very disease, that this is indeed the dreaded fatal pathogen > > > that has plagued Angelfish ongoing from a quarter century ago. > > > > > > I could choose to see your Angelfish loses as just the chance > > > results of poorer than required water conditions combined with > > > your possible inexperience with them and the luck of the draw > > > along with the inevitableness of young Angels dying en-mass for > > > unexplained reasons not unrelated to your general lack of aquarium > > > knowledge at this stage of the game -- as some here may be > > > suggesting -- but to do so would be to go against everything I've > > > learned about Angelfish in 62 years of working with them, and > > > living through the horrid period of decimation of these fish > > > through the spread of this Virus. > > > > > > I've seen many, many cases of this virus striking Angelfish and > > > have known many Angelfish breeders who were effected by the > > > devastation of it and the experiences they've gone through during > > > the peak period when this Virus was at its worst. > > > > > > AND . . . > > > > > > I have seen in TODAY's WORLD, the EXACT same thing as you are > > > describing happening to you, of Angelfish being sold by Walmart > > > (and > > > others) which are infected by this virus and which have been > > > dropping otherwise unexplainedly like flies -- INCLUDING having > > > one or two fish temporarily survive this onslault only to died > > > within the following month. I DO NOT think this is all > > > coincidental. My brother (who had yet to learn of this disease) > > > experienced the VERY things with young Angelfish he recently > > > bought from Walmart a couple of months ago, amost word for word. > > > In his case, his lone surviving Angel lasted another 3 weeks after > > > the first ones died -- and he knows about keeping fish properly. > > > Many of my customers (fish store owners who purchase my Angelfish) > > > have told me of the quality of Angelfish (and the Virus they still > > > carry) they've bought in the recent past from both Florida and > > > directly from the Far East that just fold up on them within a > > > week's time, often resulting in complete losses -- the unaccounted > > > for ones having already been sold prior to the end of the week. > > > These sources and the Angelfish Virus they promote through selling > > > infected fish are still notorious for spreading this disease with > > > the help of unknowing dealers and hobbyists even today. > > > > > > Of course, you do not need to believe me, but then it would be > > > folly to continue in the manner you're attempting to add Angelfish > > > to your tank in hopes they'll survive. For all we know though, > > > without having your two Angelfish analyzed, they may be the > > > healthiest Angels on earth -- But I wouldn't want to bet the farm > > > on it! > > > > > > I suggested to you what needs to be done to succeed. You may > > > follow this advice, or you may ignore it -- that's your decision. > > > When buying from a different source, a reputable breeder who has > > > reliably supplied quality disease-free Angelfish for many years > > > simply cannot afford to risk selling diseased Angelfish, and still > > > have his business and reputation survive. IF contemplating buying > > > from such a known and reputable dealer, you need to make sure whom > > > you are dealing with. > > > There are many reputable Angelfish breeders in existance, but with > > > your not having the experience to know which are the better ones, > > > you may not know yet who to buy from with confidence. I WILL tell > > > you that you can't expect to pay Walmart prices and still get good > > > fish. A lot of work goes into raising these Angelfish and as a > > > result these breeders will (need) to charge more, but a good > > > breeder will be fair > > > -- he does not need to price-gouge. If you're still following up > > > on this, and need further advise, there are a number of people > > > here who can best assist you with recommending breeders of quality > > > Angels. I can start by wholeheartedly recommending Steve Rybicki > > > of Angels Plus as one whom I can vouch for selling disease-free > > > Angelfish; Steve's been in the business for at least 25 years. Ray > > > > > > --- In AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com <mailto:AquaticLife > > > %40yahoogroups. com>, Joellen & Kevin Analla <anallafamily. 2001@> > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > So basically what your saying is that all fish in tank (2Angels) > > > must die then i need to disinfect all equipment then start all > > > over buying from a different source but theres no garanteen that > > > even a differant source could still get infected in that case i > > > would have to repeat process agian......Really isnt there a better > > > way, or even a way of knowing that fish will be ok . > > > > > > > > --- On Wed, 6/24/09, Raymond Wetzel <sevenspringss@ > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > From: Raymond Wetzel <sevenspringss@ > > > > > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Angels Please help??? > > > > To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com <mailto:AquaticLife > > > > %40yahoogroups. com> > > > > Date: Wednesday, June 24, 2009, 1:33 AM > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Hello Jo, So sorry you are running into this frustrating > > > > experience > > > in trying to keep Angelfish, when the species is not difficult to > > > maintain. Ordinarily, we would ask just what you meant (and will > > > still do this) when you say that your water is all testing okay. > > > When giving us any of your data concerning your water parameters, > > > we prefer to have number to be evaluate your circumstances, and > > > the actual test results in ppm (parts per million) best reflect > > > your actual conditions. If you could give us your test results for > > > pH, ammonia, nitrite and even nitrate, it could be a great help. > > > If you can provide results for temporary hardness (KH) and > > > total/general hardness (GH), this may be of further assistance to > > > us -- the more information, the better. BUT, in this particular > > > case, I do not believe it's your water quality that's at fault, > > > even though we need to rule that out. > > > > > > > > Most unfortunately, new prospective Angelfish hobbyists will run > > > into this situation when buying from retailers who prefer > > > obtaining their Angelfish stocks indiscriminantly, possibly in an > > > effort to save money or perhaps just for the convenience. However, > > > in buying in essence what can be established as inferior stock, I > > > fail to see what they think they gain. Unfortunately too, the > > > customer (you) is too often unsuspecting of this possibility and > > > blame the deaths of these fish on themselves, when in truth it's > > > the poor stock itself that these outlets continue to retail -- > > > despite the many losses they themselves have with each re-stocking. > > > > > > > > These retailers know that they will not be alienating their > > > customers, as these customers are completely unaware that this > > > stock is inferior, and in their quest to maintain this beautiful > > > species, they repeatedly buy new stock in hopes they can keep them > > > alive. Some of the larger chain stores (and some smaller shops) > > > operate in this manner, Walmart having been one of them until they > > > gave up selling tropical fish; these stores continuing to buy > > > their Angels only from preferred sources which may include a > > > headquarter- -designated distributor, a Florida fish farm, a local > > > wholesaler that buys from either Florida or the Far East, or a Far > > > East breeding establishment- -exporter -- rather than a reputable domestic breeder. > > > > > > > > Now, getting to the root of this practice and its problem. Going > > > back some 15 years or slightly more, there was a major outbreak of > > > a horrific Angelfish Virus disease originating in the Far East, > > > decimating Angelfish stocks there as well as in this country when > > > it was introduced here through imports of that stock into this country. > > > Many domestic Angelfish breeders in this country were wiped out or > > > at least partially effected, not suspecting this problem, and > > > mixed that stock with theirs. The problem didn't stop there in > > > this country as a good number of the Florida fish farmers also > > > introduced this diseased Asian stock of Angelfish to their > > > hatcheries in efforts to strengthen their own stocks with "new > > > blood," not yet knowing the consequences they would have to pay. > > > > > > > > Gradually, this disease was finally contained although never > > > completely cured. Those Asian stocks that survived were > > > strengthened by natural selection to be able to remain viable > > > while still carrying th Virus as a latent disease always present > > > but under control of these latest Angelfish's adapted immune > > > systems. This same adaptation of the Angelfish's immune system to > > > contain this Virus as of late, also emerged from those Florida > > > fish farm's stocks which were similarly effected. > > > > > > > > As a result, most any Angelfish derived today from either those > > > effected Florida fish farms or those Far Eastern > > > hatchery/exporters carry this Virus as a weaker (as controlled now > > > by these Angels' new but limited immunity), yet still viable > > > disease still capable of overtaking the Angelfish as soon as > > > receieves enough stress. This shared (but not mutually beneficial > > > where the fish is concerned) existance is called "symbiosis," and > > > is seen also in many Cichlids -- including Angelfish -- as > > > Hexamita, where this protozoan resides in a latent condition in > > > the fish's intestine, only to overtake the fish when the fish experiences sufficient stress for it to do so. > > > > > > > > So, now when these Angelfish (carrying this disease) reach your > > > local fish store, they look fine at first and appear most healthy. > > > However, the stress of shipping soon takes its toll over the next > > > week as the disease now devastates these stressed and weakened > > > fish. These fish are not expected to last much more than an > > > average of 6 or 7 days as a result of what happens with them. > > > Likewise, many (most?) of the same fish in these stores that stock > > > them soon die also (they are KNOWN to fold up), but the > > > storekeeper has still made his profit and has "satisfied" his > > > customers, which causes them to keep coming back to those stores. > > > > > > > > If any of this rings a bell for you, you may finally be > > > understanding what's happening with your Angelfish. A few, such as > > > the two you have that survived so far will live for an > > > undetermined period of time, but their days are still numbered > > > (could live for another few weeks or so). If you still want to > > > keep Angelfish, you cannot continue to buy them from this present > > > source as they'll meet the same fate, nor can you add any other > > > Angelfish to this tank from a different source as they'll become > > > infected. I really hate to have to suggest this, and I don't know > > > if you have any other species of fish presently in this tank, but > > > before you add any more Angels -- and they MUST be from a > > > reputable domestic breeder -- this tank and all its equipment must > > > be disinfected after these two remaining Angels secumb. I hope > > > this whole scenario of events as pertains to Angelfish has been at > > > least enlightening for you, and will serve to assist you in the > > > future (we'll > > > > still be here to help). I regret that since you most probably > > > > have > > > introduced disease-carrying Angelfish unknowingly, that you'll > > > have a long road ahead of you in maintaining your goal, but at > > > least now you know what to expect. Please keep us posted, Ray > > > > > > > > --- In AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com, "anallafamily. 2001" > > > <anallafamily. 2001@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > I'm new to the group so just let me know if I say or do > > > > > something > > > not right...... > > > > > My Question.... I wanted to start up an angel tank so I have a > > > 55gal set up.. I keep buying 5 angels at a time and they keep > > > dying slowly but surely.. I think altogether I have bought 16 > > > Angels and I have managed to get 2 to live for at least 6 days > > > now. I have plenty of filtration and water flow, I have ph at 6.5 > > > and water is all testing ok... So what am I doing wrong? and > > > should I go get more since I got 2 to live uhhhhhh What do I do I > > > feel like I want to give up but I really thought they were such a beautiful fish. > > > > > Please Help Jo..

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 41478	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 6/26/2009
Subject: Re: undergravel filters?

I have some information and links to several good articles about UGF filters on my article on "Filter Cleaning and Maintenance" on my blog. Depending on your plans for the tank, UGF filters are still viable but they should probably be supplemented with other filtration and ALSO USE either powerheads or the intake tube from an HOB as their source of power (suction), instead of just an airline or airstone as they were originally designed to work with. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of anallafamily.2001 Sent: Friday, June 26, 2009 1:16 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] undergravel filters? I recently purchased a 75 gal tank off of craigslist and it came with these plastic undergravel filter plate things...I did alittle invastigating and there are alot of pros/cons with useing them . I personally have never used before. Whats the scoop are they to much of a hassel and what kind of filter would be needed.? Jo

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 41479	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 6/26/2009
Subject: Re: 55 gallon community tank

I don't think so... at least not for permanent use. Most filter media bags, filter floss pads, etc. are ALL nylon or some other polymer material. Cotton, being natural, would probably decay over time and suffer from bacterial action as well. That's why, when they dig up a corpse from the 70's and 80's, the only thing still intact are them polyester leisure suits... nothing eats them... and nothing should have ever worn them either. LOL As long as you are sure the socks are 100% cotton with no anti-odor additives, they would be OK for short term use but the water may not flow through them as well as it would a regular filter media bag. Even nylon's have much smaller pores than the filter media bags that I use. Of course, the Purigen 100ml packets have filter media bags that have very small pores since Purigen are such small pellets. Remember, the crushed coral in a filter media bag will also be a GOOD source of biological filtration so you could remove any bio-balls or other biological filtration media once the crushed coral gets established... making more room for crushed coral, if needed. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Amber Berglund Sent: Friday, June 26, 2009 3:53 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] 55 gallon community tank Would thin cotton socks work to put the crushed coral in? They are brand new just pulled out of the bag... I didn't like the style and never wore them. I can use a zip tie to tie them shut. Amber Amber Berglund wrote: > > > Okay I will put some in one of the giant filter bags and maybe fold it > over or something for something to use for now, it's time for a filter > cleaning anyways, might as well add it while I'm in there ;) LOL. > How much more should I add since I put a few handfulls into the tank > itself? Should I add any at all? > > Amber > > Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > > > > > > Yes and no. While a higher KH and GH will often result in a higher > pH, it > > isn't automatic. For example, if you have a heavy bioload in a tank > > with lots of nitrifying bacterial action and decaying detritus > > putting > out lots > > of carbonic acid and CO2, then your pH will be lower because of all > of the > > acid and CO2. If you keep your gravel reasonably clean (if possible, > > depending on the substrate) and keep your filters well maintained > and your > > bioload isn't overwhelming, then yes, the pH of the tank shouldn't > be more > > than 0.4 difference from your tap water baseline. Then when doing a > > 25% PWC, it would only change the pH by 0.1 which is an acceptable > > immediate change in pH. Of course, in your case, the water comes out > > the tap with CO2 in it (more than likely) so even if your tank is at > > 6.0 pH and your > tap is > > at 6.5 pH, doing a 25% PWC would still only result in a 0.125 change > > in pH... still acceptable for an immediate change. Then as the CO2 > > outgases from the tap water that you added, the pH will rise a > > little more > over the > > next day or two but not enough to cause a problem. I'm sure, by > using the > > crushed coral, doing proper tank/filter maintenance and weekly > PWC's, your > > tank's pH will slowly climb up closer to your tap's pH. > > > > You would get better results with your crushed coral once you put it > in a > > filter media bag and inside your filter reservoir so it gets more > > water action going through it. The Grand Canyon didn't happen from > > slow moving water or stagnant water just sitting there... but fast > > moving water can cut through dirt and stone like a hot knife through > > butter, over time.. and thus, The Grand Canyon.... also what happens > > to a levee down here, > once it > > springs a small leak. ;-) > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>> > > (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the > > right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by > > Year, > Month) > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On Behalf Of Amber Berglund > > Sent: Friday, June 26, 2009 11:57 AM > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] 55 gallon community tank > > > > I want to get my pH where it is closer to my tapwater baseline so I > won't > > stress out the fish too much doing PWC's. > > So to do that I'm going to have to maintain a higher KH and GH correct? > > > > Amber > > > > Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > > > > > > > > > Amber, > > > > > > Daily dosing is not required for GH/KH issues. BUT... for at least > > > one of the SeaChem products, Excel, I think daily dosing is at > > > least > > suggested. > > > > > > If you went with the Oyster Flour, you would only have to daily > > > dose for the first week or so to bring the GH/KH levels up to > > > where you want them. > > > After > > > that, you would just dose the water you are putting back into the > > > tank after your weekly tank maintenance. > > > > > > Yes, using something like the crushed coral or cuttlebone means > > > that you would only have to fill a filter media bag and stick that > > > in your filter reservoir. Then check it on a weekly basis and top > > > off the bag whenever it starts to get low due to the media dissolving. > > > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>> > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>>> > > (Links to any articles referenced in > > > above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under > > > Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) > > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On Behalf Of Amber > > > Berglund > > > Sent: Friday, June 26, 2009 10:05 AM > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] 55 gallon community tank > > > > > > I just did my baseline tests, initial tests had my pH at 6.5-6.6 > > > and GH was approx 100ppm , and KH was 18ppm or less (1 drop). > > > pH rose to 6.8 after 24 and 48 hours, GH lowered to 38ppm after 48 > > > hours and KH remained the same the whole time. > > > As you can see I have a little GH in my tap water, but hardly any > > > KH at all, so I'm trying to remedy this and get my tanks at a more > > > reasonable KH and GH level without having to dose the tank every day. > > > Let's put it this way, if I had to take daily meds to stay alive, > > > I'd probably forget and die... now lets not put someone in charge > > > of daily dosing on a tank that's very important for the health of > > > the fish ;) > > LOL. > > > > > > Amber > > > > > > bill 1433 wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > Amber!!! Sorry! I forgot something, > > > > > > > > As Len just mentioned GH and KH in your tap water is very > > > > important to all of this. > > > > > > > > If you will remember back some time ago I went through all of > > > > this BUT, I had no GH or KH at all, natural spring, well water > > > > here. BUT I also have an extremely low pH, 5.5 to 5.7 naturally. > > > > > > > > All of this has a direct bearing on all tests. You must know for > > > > sure your starting or baseline readings for pH, GH and KH. > > > > > > > > The amount of your starting readings will greatly affect the > > > > over-all speed which any buffer or agent like the Oyster Flour, > > > > crushed coral will work. Mine was very fast because of the well > waters > > low pH. > > > > Yours may not be. Also please remember that I had no GH or KH to > > > > start with. This was my whole point in playing in the water. > > > > With a measurable amount of GH and KH I hoped to achieve a > > > > buffer to guard against pH spikes and drops.. > > > > > > > > Bill > > > > > > > > --- On Fri, 6/26/09, bill 1433 <warrenprint@... > <mailto:warrenprint%40yahoo.com> > > <mailto:warrenprint%40yahoo.com> > > > <mailto:warrenprint%40yahoo.com> > > > > <mailto:warrenprint%40yahoo.com>> wrote: > > > > > > > > > From: bill 1433 <warrenprint@... > <mailto:warrenprint%40yahoo.com> > > <mailto:warrenprint%40yahoo.com> > > > <mailto:warrenprint%40yahoo.com> > > > > > <mailto:warrenprint%40yahoo.com>> > > > > > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] 55 gallon community tank > > > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > Date: Friday, June 26, 2009, 9:30 AM > > > > > > > > > > Hi Amber, > > > > > > > > > > I am still trying to figure out exactly what your trying to do > here. > > > > > Sorry I lost your original post. But may I offer some food for > > > > > thought? > > > > > > > > > > First, here is a link and picture of the Oyster Shell Flour > > > > > and its > > > > > manufacture: > > > > > > > > > > http://www.downtoearthdistributors.com/oystershell.html > <http://www.downtoearthdistributors.com/oystershell.html> > > <http://www.downtoearthdistributors.com/oystershell.html > <http://www.downtoearthdistributors.com/oystershell.html>> > > > <http://www.downtoearthdistributors.com/oystershell.html > <http://www.downtoearthdistributors.com/oystershell.html> > > <http://www.downtoearthdistributors.com/oystershell.html > <http://www.downtoearthdistributors.com/oystershell.html>>> > > > > <http://www.downtoearthdistributors.com/oystershell.html > <http://www.downtoearthdistributors.com/oystershell.html> > > <http://www.downtoearthdistributors.com/oystershell.html > <http://www.downtoearthdistributors.com/oystershell.html>> > > > <http://www.downtoearthdistributors.com/oystershell.html > <http://www.downtoearthdistributors.com/oystershell.html> > > <http://www.downtoearthdistributors.com/oystershell.html > <http://www.downtoearthdistributors.com/oystershell.html>>>> > > > > > > > > > > Next, I am reading in the postings this morning that your > > > > > adding "hand fulls" of coral to the tank? > > > > > If you go to far (and I did, so I know) its the devil to get > > > > > it back out. Use some type of bag for control. > > > > > > > > > > And finally, on the bag itself, you can get a regular one for > > > > > this purpose at Dr's. here: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > http://pet-supplies.drsfostersmith.com/search?af=type%3Aproduct&ca > <http://pet-supplies.drsfostersmith.com/search?af=type%3Aproduct&c > a> > > > <http://pet-supplies.drsfostersmith.com/search?af=type%3Aproduct&c > a > <http://pet-supplies.drsfostersmith.com/search?af=type%3Aproduct&c > a>> > > > > > > <http://pet-supplies.drsfostersmith.com/search?af=type%3Aproduct&c > <http://pet-supplies.drsfostersmith.com/search?af=type%3Aproduct&c > > > > > <http://pet-supplies.drsfostersmith.com/search?af=type%3Aproduct&c > <http://pet-supplies.drsfostersmith.com/search?af=type%3Aproduct&c > >> > > > a> > > > > rtcount=0&wishcount=0&subtotal=0.00&w=mesh+bag&asug=mesh > > > > > > > > > > <http://pet-supplies.drsfostersmith.com/search?af=type%3Aproduct&c > <http://pet-supplies.drsfostersmith.com/search?af=type%3Aproduct&c > > > > > <http://pet-supplies.drsfostersmith.com/search?af=type%3Aproduct&c > <http://pet-supplies.drsfostersmith.com/search?af=type%3Aproduct&c > >> > > > > > > <http://pet-supplies.drsfostersmith.com/search?af=type%3Aproduct&c > <http://pet-supplies.drsfostersmith.com/search?af=type%3Aproduct&c > > > > > <http://pet-supplies.drsfostersmith.com/search?af=type%3Aproduct&c > <http://pet-supplies.drsfostersmith.com/search?af=type%3Aproduct&c > >> > > > > > > > > artcount=0&wishcount=0&subtotal=0.00&w=mesh+bag&asug=mesh> > > > > > > > > > > Now if you are using your own, as Len mentioned, not > > > > > Fish-Nets, use real nylons. By that I mean stockings, not pantyhose. Why? > > > > > While I am not proficient in ladies wear, I am almost positive > > > > > that pantyhose products contain Spandex? I don't think you > > > > > want that chemical in your aquarium water as it could break > > > > > down in time and who knows were that could lead. Stay with > > > > > anything that's 100% nylon. > > > > > > > > > > "Playing in the Water" as I like to call it, is not advisable > > > > > but it can be done. If your taking readings and the proper > > > > > notes, over time you will develope a regular system and once > > > > > your goals are reached you will learn how much water to use in > > > > > your regualr water changes so as to not upset the balance you > > > > > have acheieved. You mentioned this morning about having that > > > > > coral from the orginal owner? > > > > > Please tell me you "sterlized" what portions you are using > > > > > BEFORE putting it into your aquarium? > > > > > > > > > > Bill > > > > > > > > > > --- On Fri, 6/26/09, Lenny V. aka GoldLenny > <GoldLenny@... <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com> > > <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com> > > > <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com> > > > > <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com>> > > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@... > <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com> > > <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com> > > > <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com> > > > > <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com>> > > > > > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] 55 gallon community tank > > > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > Date: Friday, June 26, 2009, 4:59 AM > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I've never seen a good article on the proper use of crushed coral. > > > > > I think there are so many variables that it's hard to know > > > > > precisely how much to use. It's probably something someone > > > > > with multiple tanks could do and keep accurate records over > > > > > the course of several months and then come up with some kind > > > > > of formula, then publish the formula to get more people trying > > > > > it and reporting back with their results to make sure the > > > > > formula works for the > > masses. > > > > > > > > > > The problems that I see is that the more acidic the water, the > > > > > faster the coral would be dissolve BUT if the water is acidic > > > > > and has a high GH and low KH, then the calcium side of the > > > > > coral would not dissolve as fast. If the water is acidic and > > > > > has a high KH and low GH, then the carbonate side would not > > > > > dissolve as fast. If the water is not acidic, then the coral > > > > > would dissolve much slower. Of course, the flow rate of the > > > > > water through the filter also has some factor in the dissolve > > > > > rate. I'm not sure how these variables would affect how much > > > > > should be used. I'm guessing there would have to be a baseline > > > > > established at 7.0 pH with moderate GH and KH levels and then > > > > > work up and down from there. One figure I've seen posted in > > > > > forums before was 1kg per 40 liters of water, when used as in > > > > > the substrate. That would translate to around 2 pounds per 10G of water. > > > > > Obviously, not > > > > > something you could fit in a filter system. That's the other > > > > > problem for many folks. While folks with BIG canister filters > > > > > could use the crushed coral in a filter media bag in their > > > > > filter reservoir, this isn't possible with most of the smaller HOB's. > > > > > > > > > > I think it really comes down to each fishkeeper coming up with > > > > > their own "system" of how to use crushed coral or cuttlebone. > > > > > That's the good thing > > > > > about using things like Baking Soda and Oyster Flour... > > > > > they can be > > > > > precisely measured, dosed and measured with test kits to see > > > > > that they are doing what they are supposed to be doing. > > > > > > > > > > Of course, when things get too complicated... keep fish that > > > > > like your source water in the first place. Of course, when one > > > > > wants to have a heavily planted tank and/or keep fish that do > > > > > not do well with their baseline water, then these other > > > > > measures become necessary. > > > > > > > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > > > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>> > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>>> > > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>> > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>>>> > > > > > (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on > > > > > the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under > > > > > Archives by Year, Month) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] > > > > > On > > > > > Behalf Of Amber Berglund > > > > > Sent: Friday, June 26, 2009 12:44 AM > > > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] 55 gallon community tank > > > > > > > > > > most of the crushed coral is sold live, they're getting it > > > > > somewhere, hmmm... wonder where? ;) Should I wait to add any > > > > > more of the crushed coral? > > > > > I'm not sure how fast it would normally affect the GH or KH. > > > > > > > > > > Amber > > > > > > > > > > Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > OOHHHH.. so now we have a conspiracy of reef > > > > > destroyers. LOL > > > > > > > > > > > > I wonder where they get the "crushed coral" that is > > > > > sold? I see that > > > > > > the CaribSea brand is called Florida Crushed Coral. > > > > > With the > > > > > > protection that most places give to their coral reefs, > > > > > you would think > > > > > > that selling crushed coral would be a no-no. Florida > > > > > even has a > > > > > > section of their Dept. Of Environmental Protection > > > > > website talking > > > > > > about saving their reefs. > > > > > > > http://www.dep.state.fl.us/coastal/programs/coral/maritime.htm

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 41480	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 6/26/2009
Subject: Re: O/T - PC Malfunctions

One other thing Ray. Besides vacuuming the vents and fans, if it is an overheating problem causing your computer shut-down issues. Cracking open the side of the case a little will also help by creating some thermal circulation (you know how hot air rises which would then suck in cooler air into the case) to aid in cooling off the inside of the case. If the fans aren't working well or at all, then opening the case completely and aiming a small fan at the inside of the case will also help keep it cooler. Then shutting down all non-essential programs and processes will further help it to run cooler until you can repair the fan(s). Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Eric Roberts Sent: Friday, June 26, 2009 3:03 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: O/T - PC Malfunctions YEah...that's what it sounds like...especially if you fire something up that either uses a lot of processor is is very graphical. The bearings in fans go bad. They are pretty easy to replace as they are usually situated on top of heat sinks. If you don;t have any computer stores near you, there are a ton of shops online that specialize in cooling fans and other cooling supplies. I used to do a lot of overclocking, which causes cpu's and graphic cards to run hotter than normal so I was always beefing up my cooling...even cutting a couple of holes on the top of my case and putting in some fans that were the same width as my case. Sounded like a jet engine, but it kept the case cool hehehe. Eric On Fri, Jun 26, 2009 at 2:59 PM, Raymond Wetzel <sevenspringss@... > wrote: > > > Thank you for your advice, Eric. I was told something similar about a > possible faulty fan by ole Bill, so your post certainly backs this up. > Makes sense as it generally happens after about two hours of operation > -- giving the machine plenty of time to heat up if the fan isn't > operating. I'll check that out and check out the powerstrip as well. > Thanks again, Ray > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>, > Eric Roberts <woad@...> wrote: > > > > No there is no fuse in a computer...you surge protector can go bad > causing > > it to trip off at much lighter loads than normal. Try plugging the > computer > > directly into the wall and see if it shuts down on its own. if it > > doesn't then the powerstip is the cause. If it does shut down still, > > more than likely you have a faulty fan on your CPU or video card and > > if those overheat, most computers will shut the system down to prevent damage. > > > > Eric > > > > On Fri, Jun 26, 2009 at 11:50 AM, Raymond Wetzel < > > sevenspringss@...> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > Does anyone (Lenny, \\Steve//) know if there is a circuit overload > (fuse?) > > > inside of computers that may get to be faulty, or can a > overload-protection > > > power strip go bad to the point of shutting itself off for no reason? > I've > > > been trying to reply to recent posts, some which I've been > > > successful > with > > > and some that I had to re-write, due to 'puter malfunction. I've > > > been unsuccessful in replying to one of Jasmine's messages from > > > yesterday > morning > > > and just now Joellen's most recent message. I will be partly into > writing a > > > reply, when the screen goes black for about 3 seconds as though > > > someone pulled the plug, then starts re-booting itself. Naturally > > > all is lost > at > > > that time. This is a new one that's it's added to its bag of > > > tricks, > but one > > > that's getting increasingly more frequent. Is there a fix I can > > > do, > like > > > replacing a circuit breaker, or does this machine need the > > > permanent > fix > > > (trash)? Thanks guys, Ray

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 41481	From: sevenspringss@wmconnect.com	Date: 6/26/2009
Subject: Re: O/T - PC Malfunctions

Lenny, Many thanks for all your input. Looks very informative and I think I'll print it out besides. Thanks again, Ray [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 41482	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 6/26/2009
Subject: Re: 55 gallon community tank

Okay I didn't use the sock, I used the giant filter bag instead that I got yesterday from marine depot. Wasn't sure where it would work best in the filter so it's at the top (last thing the water filters through). I will check the GH and KH tonight when I get home to see what, if any, the changes are. Amber Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > > > I don't think so... at least not for permanent use. Most filter media > bags, > filter floss pads, etc. are ALL nylon or some other polymer material. > Cotton, being natural, would probably decay over time and suffer from > bacterial action as well. That's why, when they dig up a corpse from the > 70's and 80's, the only thing still intact are them polyester leisure > suits... nothing eats them... and nothing should have ever worn them > either. > LOL > > As long as you are sure the socks are 100% cotton with no anti-odor > additives, they would be OK for short term use but the water may not flow > through them as well as it would a regular filter media bag. Even nylon's > have much smaller pores than the filter media bags that I use. Of course, > the Purigen 100ml packets have filter media bags that have very small > pores > since Purigen are such small pellets. > > Remember, the crushed coral in a filter media bag will also be a GOOD > source > of biological filtration so you could remove any bio-balls or other > biological filtration media once the crushed coral gets established... > making more room for crushed coral, if needed. > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right > side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On > Behalf Of Amber Berglund > Sent: Friday, June 26, 2009 3:53 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] 55 gallon community tank > > Would thin cotton socks work to put the crushed coral in? They are > brand new > just pulled out of the bag... I didn't like the style and never wore them. > I can use a zip tie to tie them shut. > > Amber > > Amber Berglund wrote: > > > > > > Okay I will put some in one of the giant filter bags and maybe fold it > > over or something for something to use for now, it's time for a filter > > cleaning anyways, might as well add it while I'm in there ;) LOL. > > How much more should I add since I put a few handfulls into the tank > > itself? Should I add any at all? > > > > Amber > > > > Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > > > > > > > > > Yes and no. While a higher KH and GH will often result in a higher > > pH, it > > > isn't automatic. For example, if you have a heavy bioload in a tank > > > with lots of nitrifying bacterial action and decaying detritus > > > putting > > out lots > > > of carbonic acid and CO2, then your pH will be lower because of all > > of the > > > acid and CO2. If you keep your gravel reasonably clean (if possible, > > > depending on the substrate) and keep your filters well maintained > > and your > > > bioload isn't overwhelming, then yes, the pH of the tank shouldn't > > be more > > > than 0.4 difference from your tap water baseline. Then when doing a > > > 25% PWC, it would only change the pH by 0.1 which is an acceptable > > > immediate change in pH. Of course, in your case, the water comes out > > > the tap with CO2 in it (more than likely) so even if your tank is at > > > 6.0 pH and your > > tap is > > > at 6.5 pH, doing a 25% PWC would still only result in a 0.125 change > > > in pH... still acceptable for an immediate change. Then as the CO2 > > > outgases from the tap water that you added, the pH will rise a > > > little more > > over the > > > next day or two but not enough to cause a problem. I'm sure, by > > using the > > > crushed coral, doing proper tank/filter maintenance and weekly > > PWC's, your > > > tank's pH will slowly climb up closer to your tap's pH. > > > > > > You would get better results with your crushed coral once you put it > > in a > > > filter media bag and inside your filter reservoir so it gets more > > > water action going through it. The Grand Canyon didn't happen from > > > slow moving water or stagnant water just sitting there... but fast > > > moving water can cut through dirt and stone like a hot knife through > > > butter, over time.. and thus, The Grand Canyon.... also what happens > > > to a levee down here, > > once it > > > springs a small leak. ;-) > > > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>>> > > > (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the > > > right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by > > > Year, > > Month) > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On Behalf Of Amber Berglund > > > Sent: Friday, June 26, 2009 11:57 AM > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] 55 gallon community tank > > > > > > I want to get my pH where it is closer to my tapwater baseline so I > > won't > > > stress out the fish too much doing PWC's. > > > So to do that I'm going to have to maintain a higher KH and GH > correct? > > > > > > Amber > > > > > > Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > Amber, > > > > > > > > Daily dosing is not required for GH/KH issues. BUT... for at least > > > > one of the SeaChem products, Excel, I think daily dosing is at > > > > least > > > suggested. > > > > > > > > If you went with the Oyster Flour, you would only have to daily > > > > dose for the first week or so to bring the GH/KH levels up to > > > > where you want them. > > > > After > > > > that, you would just dose the water you are putting back into the > > > > tank after your weekly tank maintenance. > > > > > > > > Yes, using something like the crushed coral or cuttlebone means > > > > that you would only have to fill a filter media bag and stick that > > > > in your filter reservoir. Then check it on a weekly basis and top > > > > off the bag whenever it starts to get low due to the media > dissolving. > > > > > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>> > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>>> > > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>> > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>>>> > > > (Links to any articles referenced in > > > > above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under > > > > Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) > > > > > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On Behalf Of Amber > > > > Berglund > > > > Sent: Friday, June 26, 2009 10:05 AM > > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] 55 gallon community tank > > > > > > > > I just did my baseline tests, initial tests had my pH at 6.5-6.6 > > > > and GH was approx 100ppm , and KH was 18ppm or less (1 drop). > > > > pH rose to 6.8 after 24 and 48 hours, GH lowered to 38ppm after 48 > > > > hours and KH remained the same the whole time. > > > > As you can see I have a little GH in my tap water, but hardly any > > > > KH at all, so I'm trying to remedy this and get my tanks at a more > > > > reasonable KH and GH level without having to dose the tank every > day. > > > > Let's put it this way, if I had to take daily meds to stay alive, > > > > I'd probably forget and die... now lets not put someone in charge > > > > of daily dosing on a tank that's very important for the health of > > > > the fish ;) > > > LOL. > > > > > > > > Amber > > > > > > > > bill 1433 wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Amber!!! Sorry! I forgot something, > > > > > > > > > > As Len just mentioned GH and KH in your tap water is very > > > > > important to all of this. > > > > > > > > > > If you will remember back some time ago I went through all of > > > > > this BUT, I had no GH or KH at all, natural spring, well water > > > > > here. BUT I also have an extremely low pH, 5.5 to 5.7 naturally. > > > > > > > > > > All of this has a direct bearing on all tests. You must know for > > > > > sure your starting or baseline readings for pH, GH and KH. > > > > > > > > > > The amount of your starting readings will greatly affect the > > > > > over-all speed which any buffer or agent like the Oyster Flour, > > > > > crushed coral will work. Mine was very fast because of the well > > waters > > > low pH. > > > > > Yours may not be. Also please remember that I had no GH or KH to > > > > > start with. This was my whole point in playing in the water. > > > > > With a measurable amount of GH and KH I hoped to achieve a > > > > > buffer to guard against pH spikes and drops.. > > > > > > > > > > Bill > > > > > > > > > > --- On Fri, 6/26/09, bill 1433 <warrenprint@... > <mailto:warrenprint%40yahoo.com> > > <mailto:warrenprint%40yahoo.com> > > > <mailto:warrenprint%40yahoo.com> > > > > <mailto:warrenprint%40yahoo.com> > > > > > <mailto:warrenprint%40yahoo.com>> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > From: bill 1433 <warrenprint@... > <mailto:warrenprint%40yahoo.com> > > <mailto:warrenprint%40yahoo.com> > > > <mailto:warrenprint%40yahoo.com> > > > > <mailto:warrenprint%40yahoo.com> > > > > > > <mailto:warrenprint%40yahoo.com>> > > > > > > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] 55 gallon community tank > > > > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > Date: Friday, June 26, 2009, 9:30 AM > > > > > > > > > > > > Hi Amber, > > > > > > > > > > > > I am still trying to figure out exactly what your trying to do > > here. > > > > > > Sorry I lost your original post. But may I offer some food for > > > > > > thought? > > > > > > > > > > > > First, here is a link and picture of the Oyster Shell Flour > > > > > > and its > > > > > > manufacture: > > > > > > > > > > > > http://www.downtoearthdistributors.com/oystershell.html > <http://www.downtoearthdistributors.com/oystershell.html> > > <http://www.downtoearthdistributors.com/oystershell.html > <http://www.downtoearthdistributors.com/oystershell.html>> > > > <http://www.downtoearthdistributors.com/oystershell.html > <http://www.downtoearthdistributors.com/oystershell.html> > > <http://www.downtoearthdistributors.com/oystershell.html > <http://www.downtoearthdistributors.com/oystershell.html>>> > > > > <http://www.downtoearthdistributors.com/oystershell.html > <http://www.downtoearthdistributors.com/oystershell.html> > > <http://www.downtoearthdistributors.com/oystershell.html > <http://www.downtoearthdistributors.com/oystershell.html>> > > > <http://www.downtoearthdistributors.com/oystershell.html > <http://www.downtoearthdistributors.com/oystershell.html> > > <http://www.downtoearthdistributors.com/oystershell.html > <http://www.downtoearthdistributors.com/oystershell.html>>>> > > > > > <http://www.downtoearthdistributors.com/oystershell.html > <http://www.downtoearthdistributors.com/oystershell.html> > > <http://www.downtoearthdistributors.com/oystershell.html > <http://www.downtoearthdistributors.com/oystershell.html>> > > > <http://www.downtoearthdistributors.com/oystershell.html > <http://www.downtoearthdistributors.com/oystershell.html> > > <http://www.downtoearthdistributors.com/oystershell.html > <http://www.downtoearthdistributors.com/oystershell.html>>> > > > > <http://www.downtoearthdistributors.com/oystershell.html > <http://www.downtoearthdistributors.com/oystershell.html> > > <http://www.downtoearthdistributors.com/oystershell.html > <http://www.downtoearthdistributors.com/oystershell.html>> > > > <http://www.downtoearthdistributors.com/oystershell.html > <http://www.downtoearthdistributors.com/oystershell.html> > > <http://www.downtoearthdistributors.com/oystershell.html > <http://www.downtoearthdistributors.com/oystershell.html>>>>> > > > > > > > > > > > > Next, I am reading in the postings this morning that your > > > > > > adding "hand fulls" of coral to the tank? > > > > > > If you go to far (and I did, so I know) its the devil to get > > > > > > it back out. Use some type of bag for control. > > > > > > > > > > > > And finally, on the bag itself, you can get a regular one for > > > > > > this purpose at Dr's. here: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > http://pet-supplies.drsfostersmith.com/search?af=type%3Aproduct&ca > <http://pet-supplies.drsfostersmith.com/search?af=type%3Aproduct&ca> > > > <http://pet-supplies.drsfostersmith.com/search?af=type%3Aproduct&c > <http://pet-supplies.drsfostersmith.com/search?af=type%3Aproduct&c> > > a> > > > > > > <http://pet-supplies.drsfostersmith.com/search?af=type%3Aproduct&c > <http://pet-supplies.drsfostersmith.com/search?af=type%3Aproduct&c> > > a > > > <http://pet-supplies.drsfostersmith.com/search?af=type%3Aproduct&c > <http://pet-supplies.drsfostersmith.com/search?af=type%3Aproduct&c> > > a>> > > > > > > > > > > <http://pet-supplies.drsfostersmith.com/search?af=type%3Aproduct&c > <http://pet-supplies.drsfostersmith.com/search?af=type%3Aproduct&c> > > > <http://pet-supplies.drsfostersmith.com/search?af=type%3Aproduct&c > <http://pet-supplies.drsfostersmith.com/search?af=type%3Aproduct&c> > > > > > > > > > <http://pet-supplies.drsfostersmith.com/search?af=type%3Aproduct&c > <http://pet-supplies.drsfostersmith.com/search?af=type%3Aproduct&c> > > > <http://pet-supplies.drsfostersmith.com/search?af=type%3Aproduct&c > <http://pet-supplies.drsfostersmith.com/search?af=type%3Aproduct&c> > > >> > > > > a> > > > > > rtcount=0&wishcount=0&subtotal=0.00&w=mesh+bag&asug=mesh > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > <http://pet-supplies.drsfostersmith.com/search?af=type%3Aproduct&c > <http://pet-supplies.drsfostersmith.com/search?af=type%3Aproduct&c> > > > <http://pet-supplies.drsfostersmith.com/search?af=type%3Aproduct&c > <http://pet-supplies.drsfostersmith.com/search?af=type%3Aproduct&c> > > > > > > > > > <http://pet-supplies.drsfostersmith.com/search?af=type%3Aproduct&c > <http://pet-supplies.drsfostersmith.com/search?af=type%3Aproduct&c> > > > <http://pet-supplies.drsfostersmith.com/search?af=type%3Aproduct&c > <http://pet-supplies.drsfostersmith.com/search?af=type%3Aproduct&c> > > >> > > > > > > > > > > <http://pet-supplies.drsfostersmith.com/search?af=type%3Aproduct&c > <http://pet-supplies.drsfostersmith.com/search?af=type%3Aproduct&c> > > > <http://pet-supplies.drsfostersmith.com/search?af=type%3Aproduct&c > <http://pet-supplies.drsfostersmith.com/search?af=type%3Aproduct&c> > > > > > > > > > <http://pet-supplies.drsfostersmith.com/search?af=type%3Aproduct&c > <http://pet-supplies.drsfostersmith.com/search?af=type%3Aproduct&c> > > > <http://pet-supplies.drsfostersmith.com/search?af=type%3Aproduct&c > <http://pet-supplies.drsfostersmith.com/search?af=type%3Aproduct&c> > > >> > > > > > > > > > > artcount=0&wishcount=0&subtotal=0.00&w=mesh+bag&asug=mesh> > > > > > > > > > > > > Now if you are using your own, as Len mentioned, not > > > > > > Fish-Nets, use real nylons. By that I mean stockings, not > pantyhose. Why? > > > > > > While I am not proficient in ladies wear, I am almost positive > > > > > > that pantyhose products contain Spandex? I don't think you > > > > > > want that chemical in your aquarium water as it could break > > > > > > down in time and who knows were that could lead. Stay with > > > > > > anything that's 100% nylon. > > > > > > > > > > > > "Playing in the Water" as I like to call it, is not advisable > > > > > > but it can be done. If your taking readings and the proper > > > > > > notes, over time you will develope a regular system and once > > > > > > your goals are reached you will learn how much water to use in > > > > > > your regualr water changes so as to not upset the balance you > > > > > > have acheieved. You mentioned this morning about having that > > > > > > coral from the orginal owner? > > > > > > Please tell me you "sterlized" what portions you are using > > > > > > BEFORE putting it into your aquarium? > > > > > > > > > > > > Bill > > > > > > > > > > > > --- On Fri, 6/26/09, Lenny V. aka GoldLenny > > <GoldLenny@... <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com> > <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com> > > > <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com> > > > > <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com> > > > > > <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com>> > > > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@... > <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com> > > <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com> > > > <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com> > > > > <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com> > > > > > <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com>> > > > > > > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] 55 gallon community tank > > > > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > Date: Friday, June 26, 2009, 4:59 AM > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I've never seen a good article on the proper use of crushed > coral. > > > > > > I think there are so many variables that it's hard to know > > > > > > precisely how much to use. It's probably something someone > > > > > > with multiple tanks could do and keep accurate records over > > > > > > the course of several months and then come up with some kind > > > > > > of formula, then publish the formula to get more people trying > > > > > > it and reporting back with their results to make sure the > > > > > > formula works for the > > > masses. > > > > > > > > > > > > The problems that I see is that the more acidic the water, the > > > > > > faster the coral would be dissolve BUT if the water is acidic > > > > > > and has a high GH and low KH, then the calcium side of the > > > > > > coral would not dissolve as fast. If the water is acidic and > > > > > > has a high KH and low GH, then the carbonate side would not > > > > > > dissolve as fast. If the water is not acidic, then the coral > > > > > > would dissolve much slower. Of course, the flow rate of the > > > > > > water through the filter also has some factor in the dissolve > > > > > > rate. I'm not sure how these variables would affect how much > > > > > > should be used. I'm guessing there would have to be a baseline > > > > > > established at 7.0 pH with moderate GH and KH levels and then > > > > > > work up and down from there. One figure I've seen posted in > > > > > > forums before was 1kg per 40 liters of water, when used as in > > > > > > the substrate. That would translate to around 2 pounds per > 10G of > water. > > > > > > Obviously, not > > > > > > something you could fit in a filter system. That's the other > > > > > > problem for many folks. While folks with BIG canister filters > > > > > > could use the crushed coral in a filter media bag in their > > > > > > filter reservoir, this isn't possible with most of the smaller > HOB's. > > > > > > > > > > > > I think it really comes down to each fishkeeper coming up with > > > > > > their own "system" of how to use crushed coral or cuttlebone. > > > > > > That's the good thing > > > > > > about using things like Baking Soda and Oyster Flour... > > > > > > they can be > > > > > > precisely measured, dosed and measured with test kits to see > > > > > > that they are doing what they are supposed to be doing. > > > > > > > > > > > > Of course, when things get too complicated... keep fish that > > > > > > like your source water in the first place. Of course, when one > > > > > > wants to have a heavily planted tank and/or keep fish that do > > > > > > not do well with their baseline water, then these other > > > > > > measures become necessary. > > > > > > > > > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > > > > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>> > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>>> > > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>> > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>>>> > > > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>> > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>>> > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>> > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>>>>> > > > > > > (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on > > > > > > the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under > > > > > > Archives by Year, Month) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > > > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] > > > > > > On > > > > > > Behalf Of Amber Berglund > > > > > > Sent: Friday, June 26, 2009 12:44 AM > > > > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] 55 gallon community tank > > > > > > > > > > > > most of the crushed coral is sold live, they're getting it > > > > > > somewhere, hmmm... wonder where? ;) Should I wait to add any > > > > > > more of the crushed coral? > > > > > > I'm not sure how fast it would normally affect the GH or KH. > > > > > > > > > > > > Amber > > > > > > > > > > > > Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > OOHHHH.. so now we have a conspiracy of reef > > > > > > destroyers. LOL > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I wonder where they get the "crushed coral" that is > > > > > > sold? I see that > > > > > > > the CaribSea brand is called Florida Crushed Coral. > > > > > > With the > > > > > > > protection that most places give to their coral reefs, > > > > > > you would think > > > > > > > that selling crushed coral would be a no-no. Florida > > > > > > even has a > > > > > > > section of their Dept. Of Environmental Protection > > > > > > website talking > > > > > > > about saving their reefs. > > > > > > > > > http://www.dep.state.fl.us/coastal/programs/coral/maritime.htm > <http://www.dep.state.fl.us/coastal/programs/coral/maritime.htm> > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 41483	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 6/26/2009
Subject: Re: 55 gallon community tank

On a side note, I think I have stimulated my cory's into spawning mode with all the cleaning's I've done the last couple of days, they got 2 PWC's yesterday (with gravel vac), and today their filter was cleaned so therefor the tank was refilled afterwards, lots of fresh water going in this week ;) I have a lot of dancing going on between them ;) Amber Amber Berglund wrote: > > > Okay I didn't use the sock, I used the giant filter bag instead that I > got yesterday from marine depot. > Wasn't sure where it would work best in the filter so it's at the top > (last thing the water filters through). I will check the GH and KH > tonight when I get home to see what, if any, the changes are. > > Amber > > Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > > > > > > I don't think so... at least not for permanent use. Most filter media > > bags, > > filter floss pads, etc. are ALL nylon or some other polymer material. > > Cotton, being natural, would probably decay over time and suffer from > > bacterial action as well. That's why, when they dig up a corpse from the > > 70's and 80's, the only thing still intact are them polyester leisure > > suits... nothing eats them... and nothing should have ever worn them > > either. > > LOL > > > > As long as you are sure the socks are 100% cotton with no anti-odor > > additives, they would be OK for short term use but the water may not > flow > > through them as well as it would a regular filter media bag. Even > nylon's > > have much smaller pores than the filter media bags that I use. Of > course, > > the Purigen 100ml packets have filter media bags that have very small > > pores > > since Purigen are such small pellets. > > > > Remember, the crushed coral in a filter media bag will also be a GOOD > > source > > of biological filtration so you could remove any bio-balls or other > > biological filtration media once the crushed coral gets established... > > making more room for crushed coral, if needed. > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>> > > (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right > > side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, > Month) > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On > > Behalf Of Amber Berglund > > Sent: Friday, June 26, 2009 3:53 PM > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] 55 gallon community tank > > > > Would thin cotton socks work to put the crushed coral in? They are > > brand new > > just pulled out of the bag... I didn't like the style and never wore > them. > > I can use a zip tie to tie them shut. > > > > Amber > > > > Amber Berglund wrote: > > > > > > > > > Okay I will put some in one of the giant filter bags and maybe fold it > > > over or something for something to use for now, it's time for a filter > > > cleaning anyways, might as well add it while I'm in there ;) LOL. > > > How much more should I add since I put a few handfulls into the tank > > > itself? Should I add any at all? > > > > > > Amber > > > > > > Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > Yes and no. While a higher KH and GH will often result in a higher > > > pH, it > > > > isn't automatic. For example, if you have a heavy bioload in a tank > > > > with lots of nitrifying bacterial action and decaying detritus > > > > putting > > > out lots > > > > of carbonic acid and CO2, then your pH will be lower because of all > > > of the > > > > acid and CO2. If you keep your gravel reasonably clean (if possible, > > > > depending on the substrate) and keep your filters well maintained > > > and your > > > > bioload isn't overwhelming, then yes, the pH of the tank shouldn't > > > be more > > > > than 0.4 difference from your tap water baseline. Then when doing a > > > > 25% PWC, it would only change the pH by 0.1 which is an acceptable > > > > immediate change in pH. Of course, in your case, the water comes out > > > > the tap with CO2 in it (more than likely) so even if your tank is at > > > > 6.0 pH and your > > > tap is > > > > at 6.5 pH, doing a 25% PWC would still only result in a 0.125 change > > > > in pH... still acceptable for an immediate change. Then as the CO2 > > > > outgases from the tap water that you added, the pH will rise a > > > > little more > > > over the > > > > next day or two but not enough to cause a problem. I'm sure, by > > > using the > > > > crushed coral, doing proper tank/filter maintenance and weekly > > > PWC's, your > > > > tank's pH will slowly climb up closer to your tap's pH. > > > > > > > > You would get better results with your crushed coral once you put it > > > in a > > > > filter media bag and inside your filter reservoir so it gets more > > > > water action going through it. The Grand Canyon didn't happen from > > > > slow moving water or stagnant water just sitting there... but fast > > > > moving water can cut through dirt and stone like a hot knife through > > > > butter, over time.. and thus, The Grand Canyon.... also what happens > > > > to a levee down here, > > > once it > > > > springs a small leak. ;-) > > > > > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>> > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>>> > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>> > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>>>> > > > > (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the > > > > right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by > > > > Year, > > > Month) > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On Behalf Of Amber Berglund > > > > Sent: Friday, June 26, 2009 11:57 AM > > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] 55 gallon community tank > > > > > > > > I want to get my pH where it is closer to my tapwater baseline so I > > > won't > > > > stress out the fish too much doing PWC's. > > > > So to do that I'm going to have to maintain a higher KH and GH > > correct? > > > > > > > > Amber > > > > > > > > Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Amber, > > > > > > > > > > Daily dosing is not required for GH/KH issues. BUT... for at least > > > > > one of the SeaChem products, Excel, I think daily dosing is at > > > > > least > > > > suggested. > > > > > > > > > > If you went with the Oyster Flour, you would only have to daily > > > > > dose for the first week or so to bring the GH/KH levels up to > > > > > where you want them. > > > > > After > > > > > that, you would just dose the water you are putting back into the > > > > > tank after your weekly tank maintenance. > > > > > > > > > > Yes, using something like the crushed coral or cuttlebone means > > > > > that you would only have to fill a filter media bag and stick that > > > > > in your filter reservoir. Then check it on a weekly basis and top > > > > > off the bag whenever it starts to get low due to the media > > dissolving. > > > > > > > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > > > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>> > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>>> > > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>> > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>>>> > > > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>> > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>>> > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>> > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>>>>> > > > > (Links to any articles referenced in > > > > > above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under > > > > > Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On Behalf Of Amber > > > > > Berglund > > > > > Sent: Friday, June 26, 2009 10:05 AM > > > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] 55 gallon community tank > > > > > > > > > > I just did my baseline tests, initial tests had my pH at 6.5-6.6 > > > > > and GH was approx 100ppm , and KH was 18ppm or less (1 drop). > > > > > pH rose to 6.8 after 24 and 48 hours, GH lowered to 38ppm after 48 > > > > > hours and KH remained the same the whole time. > > > > > As you can see I have a little GH in my tap water, but hardly any > > > > > KH at all, so I'm trying to remedy this and get my tanks at a more > > > > > reasonable KH and GH level without having to dose the tank every > > day. > > > > > Let's put it this way, if I had to take daily meds to stay alive, > > > > > I'd probably forget and die... now lets not put someone in charge > > > > > of daily dosing on a tank that's very important for the health of > > > > > the fish ;) > > > > LOL. > > > > > > > > > > Amber > > > > > > > > > > bill 1433 wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Amber!!! Sorry! I forgot something, > > > > > > > > > > > > As Len just mentioned GH and KH in your tap water is very > > > > > > important to all of this. > > > > > > > > > > > > If you will remember back some time ago I went through all of > > > > > > this BUT, I had no GH or KH at all, natural spring, well water > > > > > > here. BUT I also have an extremely low pH, 5.5 to 5.7 naturally. > > > > > > > > > > > > All of this has a direct bearing on all tests. You must know for > > > > > > sure your starting or baseline readings for pH, GH and KH. > > > > > > > > > > > > The amount of your starting readings will greatly affect the > > > > > > over-all speed which any buffer or agent like the Oyster Flour, > > > > > > crushed coral will work. Mine was very fast because of the well > > > waters > > > > low pH. > > > > > > Yours may not be. Also please remember that I had no GH or KH to > > > > > > start with. This was my whole point in playing in the water. > > > > > > With a measurable amount of GH and KH I hoped to achieve a > > > > > > buffer to guard against pH spikes and drops.. > > > > > > > > > > > > Bill > > > > > > > > > > > > --- On Fri, 6/26/09, bill 1433 <warrenprint@... > <mailto:warrenprint%40yahoo.com> > > <mailto:warrenprint%40yahoo.com> > > > <mailto:warrenprint%40yahoo.com> > > > > <mailto:warrenprint%40yahoo.com> > > > > > <mailto:warrenprint%40yahoo.com> > > > > > > <mailto:warrenprint%40yahoo.com>> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > From: bill 1433 <warrenprint@... > <mailto:warrenprint%40yahoo.com> > > <mailto:warrenprint%40yahoo.com> > > > <mailto:warrenprint%40yahoo.com> > > > > <mailto:warrenprint%40yahoo.com> > > > > > <mailto:warrenprint%40yahoo.com> > > > > > > > <mailto:warrenprint%40yahoo.com>> > > > > > > > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] 55 gallon community tank > > > > > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > Date: Friday, June 26, 2009, 9:30 AM > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Hi Amber, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I am still trying to figure out exactly what your trying to do > > > here. > > > > > > > Sorry I lost your original post. But may I offer some food for > > > > > > > thought? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > First, here is a link and picture of the Oyster Shell Flour > > > > > > > and its > > > > > > > manufacture: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > http://www.downtoearthdistributors.com/oystershell.html > <http://www.downtoearthdistributors.com/oystershell.html> > > <http://www.downtoearthdistributors.com/oystershell.html > <http://www.downtoearthdistributors.com/oystershell.html>> > > > <http://www.downtoearthdistributors.com/oystershell.html > <http://www.downtoearthdistributors.com/oystershell.html> > > <http://www.downtoearthdistributors.com/oystershell.html > <http://www.downtoearthdistributors.com/oystershell.html>>> > > > > <http://www.downtoearthdistributors.com/oystershell.html > <http://www.downtoearthdistributors.com/oystershell.html> > > <http://www.downtoearthdistributors.com/oystershell.html > <http://www.downtoearthdistributors.com/oystershell.html>> > > > <http://www.downtoearthdistributors.com/oystershell.html > <http://www.downtoearthdistributors.com/oystershell.html> > > <http://www.downtoearthdistributors.com/oystershell.html > <http://www.downtoearthdistributors.com/oystershell.html>>>> > > > > > <http://www.downtoearthdistributors.com/oystershell.html > <http://www.downtoearthdistributors.com/oystershell.html> > > <http://www.downtoearthdistributors.com/oystershell.html > <http://www.downtoearthdistributors.com/oystershell.html>> > > > <http://www.downtoearthdistributors.com/oystershell.html > <http://www.downtoearthdistributors.com/oystershell.html> > > <http://www.downtoearthdistributors.com/oystershell.html > <http://www.downtoearthdistributors.com/oystershell.html>>> > > > > <http://www.downtoearthdistributors.com/oystershell.html > <http://www.downtoearthdistributors.com/oystershell.html> > > <http://www.downtoearthdistributors.com/oystershell.html > <http://www.downtoearthdistributors.com/oystershell.html>> > > > <http://www.downtoearthdistributors.com/oystershell.html > <http://www.downtoearthdistributors.com/oystershell.html> > > <http://www.downtoearthdistributors.com/oystershell.html > <http://www.downtoearthdistributors.com/oystershell.html>>>>> > > > > > > <http://www.downtoearthdistributors.com/oystershell.html > <http://www.downtoearthdistributors.com/oystershell.html> > > <http://www.downtoearthdistributors.com/oystershell.html > <http://www.downtoearthdistributors.com/oystershell.html>> > > > <http://www.downtoearthdistributors.com/oystershell.html > <http://www.downtoearthdistributors.com/oystershell.html> > > <http://www.downtoearthdistributors.com/oystershell.html > <http://www.downtoearthdistributors.com/oystershell.html>>> > > > > <http://www.downtoearthdistributors.com/oystershell.html > <http://www.downtoearthdistributors.com/oystershell.html> > > <http://www.downtoearthdistributors.com/oystershell.html > <http://www.downtoearthdistributors.com/oystershell.html>> > > > <http://www.downtoearthdistributors.com/oystershell.html > <http://www.downtoearthdistributors.com/oystershell.html> > > <http://www.downtoearthdistributors.com/oystershell.html > <http://www.downtoearthdistributors.com/oystershell.html>>>> > > > > > <http://www.downtoearthdistributors.com/oystershell.html > <http://www.downtoearthdistributors.com/oystershell.html> > > <http://www.downtoearthdistributors.com/oystershell.html > <http://www.downtoearthdistributors.com/oystershell.html>> > > > <http://www.downtoearthdistributors.com/oystershell.html > <http://www.downtoearthdistributors.com/oystershell.html> > > <http://www.downtoearthdistributors.com/oystershell.html > <http://www.downtoearthdistributors.com/oystershell.html>>> > > > > <http://www.downtoearthdistributors.com/oystershell.html > <http://www.downtoearthdistributors.com/oystershell.html> > > <http://www.downtoearthdistributors.com/oystershell.html > <http://www.downtoearthdistributors.com/oystershell.html>> > > > <http://www.downtoearthdistributors.com/oystershell.html > <http://www.downtoearthdistributors.com/oystershell.html> > > <http://www.downtoearthdistributors.com/oystershell.html > <http://www.downtoearthdistributors.com/oystershell.html>>>>>> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Next, I am reading in the postings this morning that your > > > > > > > adding "hand fulls" of coral to the tank? > > > > > > > If you go to far (and I did, so I know) its the devil to get > > > > > > > it back out. Use some type of bag for control. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > And finally, on the bag itself, you can get a regular one for > > > > > > > this purpose at Dr's. here: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > http://pet-supplies.drsfostersmith.com/search?af=type%3Aproduct&ca > <http://pet-supplies.drsfostersmith.com/search?af=type%3Aproduct&ca> > > > <http://pet-supplies.drsfostersmith.com/search?af=type%3Aproduct&ca > <http://pet-supplies.drsfostersmith.com/search?af=type%3Aproduct&ca>> > > > > > > <http://pet-supplies.drsfostersmith.com/search?af=type%3Aproduct&c > <http://pet-supplies.drsfostersmith.com/search?af=type%3Aproduct&c> > > > <http://pet-supplies.drsfostersmith.com/search?af=type%3Aproduct&c > <http://pet-supplies.drsfostersmith.com/search?af=type%3Aproduct&c>> > > > a> > > > > > > > > > > <http://pet-supplies.drsfostersmith.com/search?af=type%3Aproduct&c > <http://pet-supplies.drsfostersmith.com/search?af=type%3Aproduct&c> > > > <http://pet-supplies.drsfostersmith.com/search?af=type%3Aproduct&c > <http://pet-supplies.drsfostersmith.com/search?af=type%3Aproduct&c>> > > > a > > > > > > <http://pet-supplies.drsfostersmith.com/search?af=type%3Aproduct&c > <http://pet-supplies.drsfostersmith.com/search?af=type%3Aproduct&c> > > > <http://pet-supplies.drsfostersmith.com/search?af=type%3Aproduct&c > <http://pet-supplies.drsfostersmith.com/search?af=type%3Aproduct&c>> > > > a>> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > <http://pet-supplies.drsfostersmith.com/search?af=type%3Aproduct&c > <http://pet-supplies.drsfostersmith.com/search?af=type%3Aproduct&c> > > > <http://pet-supplies.drsfostersmith.com/search?af=type%3Aproduct&c > <http://pet-supplies.drsfostersmith.com/search?af=type%3Aproduct&c>> > > > > > > <http://pet-supplies.drsfostersmith.com/search?af=type%3Aproduct&c > <http://pet-supplies.drsfostersmith.com/search?af=type%3Aproduct&c> > > > <http://pet-supplies.drsfostersmith.com/search?af=type%3Aproduct&c > 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> <http://pet-supplies.drsfostersmith.com/search?af=type%3Aproduct&c > <http://pet-supplies.drsfostersmith.com/search?af=type%3Aproduct&c> > > > <http://pet-supplies.drsfostersmith.com/search?af=type%3Aproduct&c > <http://pet-supplies.drsfostersmith.com/search?af=type%3Aproduct&c>> > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > artcount=0&wishcount=0&subtotal=0.00&w=mesh+bag&asug=mesh> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Now if you are using your own, as Len mentioned, not > > > > > > > Fish-Nets, use real nylons. By that I mean stockings, not > > pantyhose. Why? > > > > > > > While I am not proficient in ladies wear, I am almost positive > > > > > > > that pantyhose products contain Spandex? I don't think you > > > > > > > want that chemical in your aquarium water as it could break > > > > > > > down in time and who knows were that could lead. Stay with > > > > > > > anything that's 100% nylon. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > "Playing in the Water" as I like to call it, is not advisable > > > > > > > but it can be done. If your taking readings and the proper > > > > > > > notes, over time you will develope a regular system and once > > > > > > > your goals are reached you will learn how much water to use in > > > > > > > your regualr water changes so as to not upset the balance you > > > > > > > have acheieved. You mentioned this morning about having that > > > > > > > coral from the orginal owner? > > > > > > > Please tell me you "sterlized" what portions you are using > > > > > > > BEFORE putting it into your aquarium? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Bill > > > > > > > > > > > > > > --- On Fri, 6/26/09, Lenny V. aka GoldLenny > > > <GoldLenny@... <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com> > <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com> > > <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com> > > > > <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com> > > > > > <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com> > > > > > > <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com>> > > > > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@... > <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com> > > <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com> > > > <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com> > > > > <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com> > > > > > <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com> > > > > > > <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com>> > > > > > > > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] 55 gallon community tank > > > > > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > Date: Friday, June 26, 2009, 4:59 AM > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I've never seen a good article on the proper use of crushed > > coral. > > > > > > > I think there are so many variables that it's hard to know > > > > > > > precisely how much to use. It's probably something someone > > > > > > > with multiple tanks could do and keep accurate records over > > > > > > > the course of several months and then come up with some kind > > > > > > > of formula, then publish the formula to get more people trying > > > > > > > it and reporting back with their results to make sure the > > > > > > > formula works for the > > > > masses. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > The problems that I see is that the more acidic the water, the > > > > > > > faster the coral would be dissolve BUT if the water is acidic > > > > > > > and has a high GH and low KH, then the calcium side of the > > > > > > > coral would not dissolve as fast. If the water is acidic and > > > > > > > has a high KH and low GH, then the carbonate side would not > > > > > > > dissolve as fast. If the water is not acidic, then the coral > > > > > > > would dissolve much slower. Of course, the flow rate of the > > > > > > > water through the filter also has some factor in the dissolve > > > > > > > rate. I'm not sure how these variables would affect how much > > > > > > > should be used. I'm guessing there would have to be a baseline > > > > > > > established at 7.0 pH with moderate GH and KH levels and then > > > > > > > work up and down from there. One figure I've seen posted in > > > > > > > forums before was 1kg per 40 liters of water, when used as in > > > > > > > the substrate. That would translate to around 2 pounds per > > 10G of > > water. > > > > > > > Obviously, not > > > > > > > something you could fit in a filter system. That's the other > > > > > > > problem for many folks. While folks with BIG canister filters > > > > > > > could use the crushed coral in a filter media bag in their > > > > > > > filter reservoir, this isn't possible with most of the smaller > > HOB's. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I think it really comes down to each fishkeeper coming up with > > > > > > > their own "system" of how to use crushed coral or cuttlebone. > > > > > > > That's the good thing > > > > > > > about using things like Baking Soda and Oyster Flour... > > > > > > > they can be > > > > > > > precisely measured, dosed and measured with test kits to see > > > > > > > that they are doing what they are supposed to be doing. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Of course, when things get too complicated... keep fish that > > > > > > > like your source water in the first place. Of course, when one > > > > > > > wants to have a heavily planted tank and/or keep fish that do > > > > > > > not do well with their baseline water, then these other > > > > > > > measures become necessary. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > > > > > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>> > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>>> > > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>> > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>>>> > > > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>> > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>>> > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>> > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>>>>> > > > > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>> > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>>> > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>> > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>>>> > > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>> > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>>> > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>> > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>>>>>> > > > > > > > (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on > > > > > > > the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under > > > > > > > Archives by Year, Month) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > > > > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] > > > > > > > On > > > > > > > Behalf Of Amber Berglund > > > > > > > Sent: Friday, June 26, 2009 12:44 AM > > > > > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] 55 gallon community tank > > > > > > > > > > > > > > most of the crushed coral is sold live, they're getting it > > > > > > > somewhere, hmmm... wonder where? ;) Should I wait to add any > > > > > > > more of the crushed coral? > > > > > > > I'm not sure how fast it would normally affect the GH or KH. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Amber > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > OOHHHH.. so now we have a conspiracy of reef > > > > > > > destroyers. LOL > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I wonder where they get the "crushed coral" that is > > > > > > > sold? I see that > > > > > > > > the CaribSea brand is called Florida Crushed Coral. > > > > > > > With the > > > > > > > > protection that most places give to their coral reefs, > > > > > > > you would think > > > > > > > > that selling crushed coral would be a no-no. Florida > > > > > > > even has a > > > > > > > > section of their Dept. Of Environmental Protection > > > > > > > website talking > > > > > > > > about saving their reefs. > > > > > > > > > > > http://www.dep.state.fl.us/coastal/programs/coral/maritime.htm > <http://www.dep.state.fl.us/coastal/programs/coral/maritime.htm> > > <http://www.dep.state.fl.us/coastal/programs/coral/maritime.htm > <http://www.dep.state.fl.us/coastal/programs/coral/maritime.htm>> > > > > > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 41484	From: Youth Opportunities	Date: 6/26/2009
Subject: Re: Examples of Clearing house for Ornamental Fish

its just an export facility for fish ( colation, housing, disease checking, quarantine, preparation for export and packing) This could be anywhere in the world. --- On Thu, 6/25/09, Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@...> wrote: From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@...> Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Examples of Clearing house for Ornamental Fish To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Date: Thursday, June 25, 2009, 1:15 PM What do you mean by a "clearing house"? What country are you in that you want to export them and where did you want to import them into? Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com [mailto:AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com] On Behalf Of Youth Opportunities Sent: Thursday, June 25, 2009 10:32 AM To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com Subject: [AquaticLife] Examples of Clearing house for Ornamental Fish I am seeking online examples of a clearing house for the export of ornamental fish. Can anyone point me in the right direction.   Thanks [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 41485	From: Joellen & Kevin Analla	Date: 6/26/2009
Subject: Re: Angels Please help???

I guess i need to go buy a nitrate test kit because I do not have one. But as for the amonia i tested it before pwc and it was 1.0 and i tested it agien this morning and amonia level never droped it is still 1.0. I removed about 15 gal. when doing pwc... And I think Ray asked "what else was in tank?" there is nothing in the 55 gal. but those lonely 2 angels. Are angels the only fish that would be effected or can i put other types in there? later of course .... --- On Fri, 6/26/09, Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@...> wrote: From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@...> Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: Angels Please help??? To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Date: Friday, June 26, 2009, 4:57 PM OK. I should have also asked for your nitrAte reading. That would be the final number needed to know if the tank is "cycling" properly. In fact, it's best to do all four tests at the same time (ammonia, nitrite, nitrate, pH) and water temp too. If you are still getting an ammonia reading and your nitrite is 0.0 and your nitrates are climbing, then that means the tank is cycling but it means something happened to cause the ammonia eating bacteria to falter. If there is only an ammonia reading and 0.0 for nitrite and 0.0 for nitrate, then that means the tank is probably not cycling properly. If we find out your tank isn't cycling properly, then MAYBE the cause of death to your angelfish could be related to cycling issues and ammonia poisoning but if your tank is cycling properly, then things lean heavily back towards Ray's explanation. Even if your tank isn't cycling properly, it could still be the disease that Ray talked about and the ammonia poisoning just caused the weaker fish to succumb even quicker. Based on all that Ray has said, you should DEFINITELY wait another month or so to make sure your remaining two angelfish survive. Once they seem healthy and we know your tank is fully cycled properly, then you can start looking for a new source of fish. And even if you do find a new source, you should still quarantine the new fish for up to a month or so to make sure they remain healthy before you risk adding them to your current tank. Of course, if Ray is correct about the disease issue, then even after you add the fish to the main tank, they could contract the disease and succumb to it. Of course, you could try adding some of your main tank water to the quarantine tank, maybe a cup or two a day, to see if the new fish might be able to build up a resistance to the suspected disease... kind of like a vaccination works on us humans and other pets. This is only a theory so wait for Ray to chime in on whether this would be a workable plan or not. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com [mailto:AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com] On Behalf Of Joellen & Kevin Analla Sent: Friday, June 26, 2009 1:07 PM To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: Angels Please help??? nitrite is at 0.0...im sorry. So because Ray says its a virus that killed all but 2 angels, how long should i wait before trying to add more from a different source of course....Jo --- On Fri, 6/26/09, Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@gmail. com> wrote: From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@gmail. com> Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: Angels Please help??? To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com Date: Friday, June 26, 2009, 12:37 PM As Ray has stated, your ammonia level of 1.0, at pH 6.6, is not toxic or even harmful to them, unless your tank water is REALLY warm. As long as it is around 78-80F, then you are OK. The toxicity of ammonia is affected by pH and temperature, the higher the pH and higher the temperature, the more ammonia becomes toxic. Here is a site that has charts showing the toxicity level of ammonia at the various pH levels. http://dataguru. org/misc/ aquarium/ AmmoniaTox. html When you say "nitrite is good", what is the actual test result? Anything over 0.0ppm is NOT good. All of this said, it's still best that a fish tank be fully cycled when adding new fish and that the ammonia/nitrite levels be monitored on a daily basis after adding new fish to make sure the "Cycle" is able to keep up with the added bioload. If the ammonia/nitrite start to spike to dangerous levels, then PWC's would be needed. Adding a pinch of salt, per 10G, will also help to prevent nitrite poisoning (brown blood disorder) during these cycling issues. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com [mailto:AquaticLife @ yahoogroups. com] On Behalf Of Joellen & Kevin Analla Sent: Friday, June 26, 2009 10:14 AM To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: Angels Please help??? Well i just got done testing my water and amoniais still at 1.0, should i go buy an amonia tablet that removes amonia? the 2 angels are still alive and eating and appear to look healthy still waiting tho. Ph is still low at 6.6 and nitrite is good. ...Jo --- On Fri, 6/26/09, Raymond Wetzel <sevenspringss@ wmconnect. com> wrote: From: Raymond Wetzel <sevenspringss@ wmconnect. com> Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Angels Please help??? To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com Date: Friday, June 26, 2009, 10:52 AM I meant to add something to this, but sent it before I thought of completing it. Anyway, in short -- it appeared as though you had a mini-cycle (like your tank was not properly cycled at the time to be able to handle the ammonia). Now, as for water changes, while it's alway best to keep your ammonia at a minimum, you don't want to remove it all physically before your ammonia-converting bacteria have had a chance to utilize it to build up their population to a proper level -- to re-cycle your tank. Then too, I don't know the pH of your tap water and how much each PWC will affect your present pH reading. As I've stated before, your fish are safe with a 1.0 ppm level of total Ammonia at a pH of 6.6. It would take quite a bit of PWCing to change your pH drastically enough so that this Ammonia would be toxic to your fish, even if your tap water were at pH 7.8. You should know though, that besides the pH affecting the toxicity of Ammonia, the temperature also plays a role in it. At 68 o, this level (1.0 ppm) of total ammonia does not become toxic until the pH falls to 7.7. At 74 o, a pH of 7.6 is required to make the Ammonia toxic (creating/convertin g enough free-Ammonia from the Ammonium) and at a temperature of 80 o, this same level of Ammonia will become toxic at pH 7.5. It will not be lethal though, until the temperature gets to 85 o at pH 7.6. This is on average as each species is affected a bit differently by Ammonia, some being a bit more intolerant than others, but it's sufficiently in the ball park. Ray --- In AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com, Joellen & Kevin Analla <anallafamily. 2001@...> wrote: > > Well as I know there is no exact amount of time for a tank to cycle it > has been set up for at least 2 mo. and before I put angels in it I > tested ammonia and it was ok. The ammonia levels have raised only > since the fish have been dieing. Well yesterday I did a partial water > change to try and lower ammonia levels. I have yet to test it this > morning to see if it helped. Jo > > --- On Thu, 6/25/09, Raymond Wetzel <sevenspringss@ ...> wrote: > > > From: Raymond Wetzel <sevenspringss@ ...> > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Angels Please help??? > To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com > Date: Thursday, June 25, 2009, 9:59 AM > > > > > > > > > Hi Amber, Going with everything I read of Jo's postings on the > scenario of this whole situation, yes, I can only conclude with a good deal of certainty that here fish are dying as a result of this infection. This terrible disease was prevalent some 15 to 20 years ago, first eminating, then spreading friom the Far East. While I've lived through this period and have experienced this whole sequence of events day to day of the hobby being so adversely affected by this disease, this is not my reason for my coming to this conclusion. Devastating as it was, I am not an alarmist. > > Others here, who may never have heard of this disease (or who may > have, but think this is now past history), cannot know that this disease still survives today in Angelfish from Angelfish stocks still being produced in those areas (Asia & Florida) where the disease originated and then was most prevalent. This disease was never conquered. The Far Eastern Angelfish breeders were never completely wiped out (even though extremely affected by hugh losses) to the point that they started back completely fresh with completely all new stock. The Angelfish stock that they were left with, that finally survived the onslaught due to their immunity system finally coping with this disease is the same stock they continued with -- now a necessarily stronger breeder stock for them and the Florida fish farmers, in that they have a higher immune system to be able to deal with this virus that co-exists with them in their systems. > > However, even though the juveniles from this stock (possibly the 4th > or 5th generation by now, from when this first started) are expose to > this virus early on in their lives -- their immune systems having to have built up against this disease as they grew to selling size -- the stress of shipping when combined with the constant battle of their immune systems having to deal with this ever-present virus in their systems (due to its ongoing presence in their environment) is just too much for them to endure. The influences of both stresses soon take their toll, manifested as losses within 6 or 7 days for most of the stock that were subjected to the stress of shipping. Any other Angels that seemingly were not quite as affected/stressed by shipping immediately may live a short while later, but by this time the virus is now overpowering their immune system to the point of eventually (often within the month) killing them. Obviously, introducing any Angels in with these infected fish during this time of them living in limbo is to be subjecting these new Angels to a disease they've never seen and have no defence at all for, with the inevitable loss of them as well. The infected environment is just as deadly to any new Angels, even without the presence of infected fish, until this environment is disinfected. This disease still persists today -- it has never been irradiacated and is an unfortunate situation for an unsuspecting hobbyist who has no previous knowledge of it, when they buy such fish from those sources (like Walmart) which persist in selling them only because these fish are the lowest price their management can find to contract with. It's a very dangerous situation. > > Now, getting back to these other points you've brought up, which need addressing. While, as \\Steve// says, ideally no ammonia should be permitted to exist, and while Jo's ammonia level of 1.0 ppm does certainly appear to be the direct result of an uncycled tank (since ammonia has shown to build up in her tank from 0.0 ppm to 1.0 ppm, yet is not being converted to nitrite) still, with Jo's ph at between 6.5 (original post) and 6.6 (follow-up post) any and all Ammonia would be in the form or relatively harmless Ammonium -- not affecting the Angelfish detrimentally in the least -- so we can rule this out, if that's what you need done. I cannot condone the use of buffers to lower the pH either, and again go right along with \\Steve// on this. Not only as it's not at all needed (especially in this situation of maintaining Angelfish) but can lead to serious consequences such as unstable pH levels and/or even possible pH crashes as \\Steve// points out. > > Still, I see no evidence of Jo having to add any additional amounts of > pH buffer between PWC's because of the buffer being exhausted, nor have I seen any high pH level readings, although there still may have been some between PWC's, which may not have been tested for. Likewise, I have fortunately not seen evidence of a pH crash, nor any possible cause for pH shock as a result of such a crash. Jo's methods of acclimating may leave more to be desired even though the concept is correct as, unless she has not given a full description, this tank water introduction to the bucket containing the fish does seem to be too abbreviated. Full acclimation requires more than one or two cups of new water over a period of 15 minutes (as I seem to perceive from her post), but it's possible she may just not have gone into the repetition of this procedure. > > In all, with taking into consideration all possible negative points > you've brought up and needed to have addressed, or that \\Steve// or I > could think of to be ruled out, I cannot see where any of these other > possibilities could enter into consideration -- especially when > realizing that these deaths were not a one-time occurance, but have > repeatedly happened with each numerous addition of new Angelfish in > the many attempts to introduce them to her tank. One might be able to > say that in isolated incidences, that a certain batch of Angelfish may > have been pH-shocked, or that another batch of Angelfish may have been > inadvertantly subjected to lethal levels of ammonia at some point -- > which appears quite remote, even if I'm reaching for straws -- but > when repeated batches of Angelfish die for no other apparent reason > there is a pattern that develops which to me has no other answer than > this Virus by what is occurring -- when looking at all other details > involved in this picture. I've seen it too many times to not ignore > it, nor mistake it for anything else. Ray > > --- In AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com, Amber Berglund <amber@> wrote: > > > > Ray are you sure that his fish are dying to this infection rather > > than dying from ammonia poisoning from an uncycled tank? Not to > > mention he used a pH adjusting buffer to lower his pH... > > This might just be a lack of experience too I would think it's > > possible at least. We should at least rule those out before rushing > > into thinking it's a serious problem right from the bat (the > > Angelfish infection). > > > > Amber > > > > Raymond Wetzel wrote: > > > > > > > > > By your post, it appears that you've taken the time to read over > > > my message on the topic, so you could finally understand it -- > > > which I appreciate your doing, as it will only benefit yourself. > > > Your two remaining Angelfish stand a better chance of dying a > > > premature death, and that death may come even sooner than later. I > > > have seen other hobbyists maintaining a few remnant Angels from > > > such origins after the rest of the original stocks of them had > > > perished, only to pass on within the following month (or two, at > > > the latest). You may try to return these two Angels for store > > > credit, if they'll allow it, but otherwise, you'd need to keep > > > only these two until something happens to them. > > > > > > To add any Angelfish from other sources to these two Angelfish, > > > would be to subject them to an infection that they have no > > > immunity for, with the inevitable results of their dying from > > > this, and quite fast. > > > If you want more Angels, and if you want healthy Angels, there is > > > no other choice than to put them in a clean, disinfected tank that > > > you're sure does not contain any disease -- which requires that > > > these two Angelfish no longer inhabit this tank, one way or another. > > > > > > IF there is a better way (and I know of no other way), I would be > > > more than pleased to tell you. As for knowing that a fish will be > > > okay, I can only tell you this -- that I, nor anyone else, cannot > > > say with 100% certainty that your two remaining Angelfish are not > > > okay -- it's impossible for me to be able to do that from where I > > > am (not within reach of your fish) or without the benefit of a > > > slide smear of this fish's waste to evaluate under the microscope. > > > But ALL things you've related about these fish and their deceased > > > siblings, including their source, the suddenness of their demise > > > and the repetition of these same circumstances spells out for me > > > with enough certainty with all I've experienced and learned of > > > this very disease, that this is indeed the dreaded fatal pathogen > > > that has plagued Angelfish ongoing from a quarter century ago. > > > > > > I could choose to see your Angelfish loses as just the chance > > > results of poorer than required water conditions combined with > > > your possible inexperience with them and the luck of the draw > > > along with the inevitableness of young Angels dying en-mass for > > > unexplained reasons not unrelated to your general lack of aquarium > > > knowledge at this stage of the game -- as some here may be > > > suggesting -- but to do so would be to go against everything I've > > > learned about Angelfish in 62 years of working with them, and > > > living through the horrid period of decimation of these fish > > > through the spread of this Virus. > > > > > > I've seen many, many cases of this virus striking Angelfish and > > > have known many Angelfish breeders who were effected by the > > > devastation of it and the experiences they've gone through during > > > the peak period when this Virus was at its worst. > > > > > > AND . . . > > > > > > I have seen in TODAY's WORLD, the EXACT same thing as you are > > > describing happening to you, of Angelfish being sold by Walmart > > > (and > > > others) which are infected by this virus and which have been > > > dropping otherwise unexplainedly like flies -- INCLUDING having > > > one or two fish temporarily survive this onslault only to died > > > within the following month. I DO NOT think this is all > > > coincidental. My brother (who had yet to learn of this disease) > > > experienced the VERY things with young Angelfish he recently > > > bought from Walmart a couple of months ago, amost word for word. > > > In his case, his lone surviving Angel lasted another 3 weeks after > > > the first ones died -- and he knows about keeping fish properly. > > > Many of my customers (fish store owners who purchase my Angelfish) > > > have told me of the quality of Angelfish (and the Virus they still > > > carry) they've bought in the recent past from both Florida and > > > directly from the Far East that just fold up on them within a > > > week's time, often resulting in complete losses -- the unaccounted > > > for ones having already been sold prior to the end of the week. > > > These sources and the Angelfish Virus they promote through selling > > > infected fish are still notorious for spreading this disease with > > > the help of unknowing dealers and hobbyists even today. > > > > > > Of course, you do not need to believe me, but then it would be > > > folly to continue in the manner you're attempting to add Angelfish > > > to your tank in hopes they'll survive. For all we know though, > > > without having your two Angelfish analyzed, they may be the > > > healthiest Angels on earth -- But I wouldn't want to bet the farm > > > on it! > > > > > > I suggested to you what needs to be done to succeed. You may > > > follow this advice, or you may ignore it -- that's your decision. > > > When buying from a different source, a reputable breeder who has > > > reliably supplied quality disease-free Angelfish for many years > > > simply cannot afford to risk selling diseased Angelfish, and still > > > have his business and reputation survive. IF contemplating buying > > > from such a known and reputable dealer, you need to make sure whom > > > you are dealing with. > > > There are many reputable Angelfish breeders in existance, but with > > > your not having the experience to know which are the better ones, > > > you may not know yet who to buy from with confidence. I WILL tell > > > you that you can't expect to pay Walmart prices and still get good > > > fish. A lot of work goes into raising these Angelfish and as a > > > result these breeders will (need) to charge more, but a good > > > breeder will be fair > > > -- he does not need to price-gouge. If you're still following up > > > on this, and need further advise, there are a number of people > > > here who can best assist you with recommending breeders of quality > > > Angels. I can start by wholeheartedly recommending Steve Rybicki > > > of Angels Plus as one whom I can vouch for selling disease-free > > > Angelfish; Steve's been in the business for at least 25 years. Ray > > > > > > --- In AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com <mailto:AquaticLife > > > %40yahoogroups. com>, Joellen & Kevin Analla <anallafamily. 2001@> > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > So basically what your saying is that all fish in tank (2Angels) > > > must die then i need to disinfect all equipment then start all > > > over buying from a different source but theres no garanteen that > > > even a differant source could still get infected in that case i > > > would have to repeat process agian......Really isnt there a better > > > way, or even a way of knowing that fish will be ok . > > > > > > > > --- On Wed, 6/24/09, Raymond Wetzel <sevenspringss@ > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > From: Raymond Wetzel <sevenspringss@ > > > > > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Angels Please help??? > > > > To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com <mailto:AquaticLife > > > > %40yahoogroups. com> > > > > Date: Wednesday, June 24, 2009, 1:33 AM > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Hello Jo, So sorry you are running into this frustrating > > > > experience > > > in trying to keep Angelfish, when the species is not difficult to > > > maintain. Ordinarily, we would ask just what you meant (and will > > > still do this) when you say that your water is all testing okay. > > > When giving us any of your data concerning your water parameters, > > > we prefer to have number to be evaluate your circumstances, and > > > the actual test results in ppm (parts per million) best reflect > > > your actual conditions. If you could give us your test results for > > > pH, ammonia, nitrite and even nitrate, it could be a great help. > > > If you can provide results for temporary hardness (KH) and > > > total/general hardness (GH), this may be of further assistance to > > > us -- the more information, the better. BUT, in this particular > > > case, I do not believe it's your water quality that's at fault, > > > even though we need to rule that out. > > > > > > > > Most unfortunately, new prospective Angelfish hobbyists will run > > > into this situation when buying from retailers who prefer > > > obtaining their Angelfish stocks indiscriminantly, possibly in an > > > effort to save money or perhaps just for the convenience. However, > > > in buying in essence what can be established as inferior stock, I > > > fail to see what they think they gain. Unfortunately too, the > > > customer (you) is too often unsuspecting of this possibility and > > > blame the deaths of these fish on themselves, when in truth it's > > > the poor stock itself that these outlets continue to retail -- > > > despite the many losses they themselves have with each re-stocking. > > > > > > > > These retailers know that they will not be alienating their > > > customers, as these customers are completely unaware that this > > > stock is inferior, and in their quest to maintain this beautiful > > > species, they repeatedly buy new stock in hopes they can keep them > > > alive. Some of the larger chain stores (and some smaller shops) > > > operate in this manner, Walmart having been one of them until they > > > gave up selling tropical fish; these stores continuing to buy > > > their Angels only from preferred sources which may include a > > > headquarter- -designated distributor, a Florida fish farm, a local > > > wholesaler that buys from either Florida or the Far East, or a Far > > > East breeding establishment- -exporter -- rather than a reputable domestic breeder. > > > > > > > > Now, getting to the root of this practice and its problem. Going > > > back some 15 years or slightly more, there was a major outbreak of > > > a horrific Angelfish Virus disease originating in the Far East, > > > decimating Angelfish stocks there as well as in this country when > > > it was introduced here through imports of that stock into this country. > > > Many domestic Angelfish breeders in this country were wiped out or > > > at least partially effected, not suspecting this problem, and > > > mixed that stock with theirs. The problem didn't stop there in > > > this country as a good number of the Florida fish farmers also > > > introduced this diseased Asian stock of Angelfish to their > > > hatcheries in efforts to strengthen their own stocks with "new > > > blood," not yet knowing the consequences they would have to pay. > > > > > > > > Gradually, this disease was finally contained although never > > > completely cured. Those Asian stocks that survived were > > > strengthened by natural selection to be able to remain viable > > > while still carrying th Virus as a latent disease always present > > > but under control of these latest Angelfish's adapted immune > > > systems. This same adaptation of the Angelfish's immune system to > > > contain this Virus as of late, also emerged from those Florida > > > fish farm's stocks which were similarly effected. > > > > > > > > As a result, most any Angelfish derived today from either those > > > effected Florida fish farms or those Far Eastern > > > hatchery/exporters carry this Virus as a weaker (as controlled now > > > by these Angels' new but limited immunity), yet still viable > > > disease still capable of overtaking the Angelfish as soon as > > > receieves enough stress. This shared (but not mutually beneficial > > > where the fish is concerned) existance is called "symbiosis," and > > > is seen also in many Cichlids -- including Angelfish -- as > > > Hexamita, where this protozoan resides in a latent condition in > > > the fish's intestine, only to overtake the fish when the fish experiences sufficient stress for it to do so. > > > > > > > > So, now when these Angelfish (carrying this disease) reach your > > > local fish store, they look fine at first and appear most healthy. > > > However, the stress of shipping soon takes its toll over the next > > > week as the disease now devastates these stressed and weakened > > > fish. These fish are not expected to last much more than an > > > average of 6 or 7 days as a result of what happens with them. > > > Likewise, many (most?) of the same fish in these stores that stock > > > them soon die also (they are KNOWN to fold up), but the > > > storekeeper has still made his profit and has "satisfied" his > > > customers, which causes them to keep coming back to those stores. > > > > > > > > If any of this rings a bell for you, you may finally be > > > understanding what's happening with your Angelfish. A few, such as > > > the two you have that survived so far will live for an > > > undetermined period of time, but their days are still numbered > > > (could live for another few weeks or so). If you still want to > > > keep Angelfish, you cannot continue to buy them from this present > > > source as they'll meet the same fate, nor can you add any other > > > Angelfish to this tank from a different source as they'll become > > > infected. I really hate to have to suggest this, and I don't know > > > if you have any other species of fish presently in this tank, but > > > before you add any more Angels -- and they MUST be from a > > > reputable domestic breeder -- this tank and all its equipment must > > > be disinfected after these two remaining Angels secumb. I hope > > > this whole scenario of events as pertains to Angelfish has been at > > > least enlightening for you, and will serve to assist you in the > > > future (we'll > > > > still be here to help). I regret that since you most probably > > > > have > > > introduced disease-carrying Angelfish unknowingly, that you'll > > > have a long road ahead of you in maintaining your goal, but at > > > least now you know what to expect. Please keep us posted, Ray > > > > > > > > --- In AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com, "anallafamily. 2001" > > > <anallafamily. 2001@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > I'm new to the group so just let me know if I say or do > > > > > something > > > not right...... > > > > > My Question.... I wanted to start up an angel tank so I have a > > > 55gal set up.. I keep buying 5 angels at a time and they keep > > > dying slowly but surely.. I think altogether I have bought 16 > > > Angels and I have managed to get 2 to live for at least 6 days > > > now. I have plenty of filtration and water flow, I have ph at 6.5 > > > and water is all testing ok... So what am I doing wrong? and > > > should I go get more since I got 2 to live uhhhhhh What do I do I > > > feel like I want to give up but I really thought they were such a beautiful fish. > > > > > Please Help Jo.. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 41486	From: biG poppa	Date: 6/26/2009
Subject: Re: 55 gallon community tank

Question can a albino Cory and a pepper Cory mate sense i have a male albino and a male pepper Cory. --- On Fri, 6/26/09, Amber Berglund <amber@...> wrote: From: Amber Berglund <amber@...> Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] 55 gallon community tank To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Date: Friday, June 26, 2009, 5:35 PM On a side note, I think I have stimulated my cory's into spawning mode with all the cleaning's I've done the last couple of days, they got 2 PWC's yesterday (with gravel vac), and today their filter was cleaned so therefor the tank was refilled afterwards, lots of fresh water going in this week ;) I have a lot of dancing going on between them ;) Amber Amber Berglund wrote: > > > Okay I didn't use the sock, I used the giant filter bag instead that I > got yesterday from marine depot. > Wasn't sure where it would work best in the filter so it's at the top > (last thing the water filters through). I will check the GH and KH > tonight when I get home to see what, if any, the changes are. > > Amber > > Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > > > > > > I don't think so... at least not for permanent use. Most filter media > > bags, > > filter floss pads, etc. are ALL nylon or some other polymer material. > > Cotton, being natural, would probably decay over time and suffer from > > bacterial action as well. That's why, when they dig up a corpse from the > > 70's and 80's, the only thing still intact are them polyester leisure > > suits... nothing eats them... and nothing should have ever worn them > > either. > > LOL > > > > As long as you are sure the socks are 100% cotton with no anti-odor > > additives, they would be OK for short term use but the water may not > flow > > through them as well as it would a regular filter media bag. Even > nylon's > > have much smaller pores than the filter media bags that I use. Of > course, > > the Purigen 100ml packets have filter media bags that have very small > > pores > > since Purigen are such small pellets. > > > > Remember, the crushed coral in a filter media bag will also be a GOOD > > source > > of biological filtration so you could remove any bio-balls or other > > biological filtration media once the crushed coral gets established. .. > > making more room for crushed coral, if needed. > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com > <http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com> <http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com > <http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com>> > > (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right > > side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, > Month) > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com > <mailto:AquaticLife %40yahoogroups. com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife %40yahoogroups. com> > > [mailto:AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com > <mailto:AquaticLife %40yahoogroups. com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife %40yahoogroups. com>] On > > Behalf Of Amber Berglund > > Sent: Friday, June 26, 2009 3:53 PM > > To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com > <mailto:AquaticLife %40yahoogroups. com> > <mailto:AquaticLife %40yahoogroups. com> > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] 55 gallon community tank > > > > Would thin cotton socks work to put the crushed coral in? They are > > brand new > > just pulled out of the bag... I didn't like the style and never wore > them. > > I can use a zip tie to tie them shut. > > > > Amber > > > > Amber Berglund wrote: > > > > > > > > > Okay I will put some in one of the giant filter bags and maybe fold it > > > over or something for something to use for now, it's time for a filter > > > cleaning anyways, might as well add it while I'm in there ;) LOL. > > > How much more should I add since I put a few handfulls into the tank > > > itself? Should I add any at all? > > > > > > Amber > > > > > > Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > Yes and no. While a higher KH and GH will often result in a higher > > > pH, it > > > > isn't automatic. For example, if you have a heavy bioload in a tank > > > > with lots of nitrifying bacterial action and decaying detritus > > > > putting > > > out lots > > > > of carbonic acid and CO2, then your pH will be lower because of all > > > of the > > > > acid and CO2. If you keep your gravel reasonably clean (if possible, > > > > depending on the substrate) and keep your filters well maintained > > > and your > > > > bioload isn't overwhelming, then yes, the pH of the tank shouldn't > > > be more > > > > than 0.4 difference from your tap water baseline. Then when doing a > > > > 25% PWC, it would only change the pH by 0.1 which is an acceptable > > > > immediate change in pH. Of course, in your case, the water comes out > > > > the tap with CO2 in it (more than likely) so even if your tank is at > > > > 6.0 pH and your > > > tap is > > > > at 6.5 pH, doing a 25% PWC would still only result in a 0.125 change > > > > in pH... still acceptable for an immediate change. Then as the CO2 > > > > outgases from the tap water that you added, the pH will rise a > > > > little more > > > over the > > > > next day or two but not enough to cause a problem. I'm sure, by > > > using the > > > > crushed coral, doing proper tank/filter maintenance and weekly > > > PWC's, your > > > > tank's pH will slowly climb up closer to your tap's pH. > > > > > > > > You would get better results with your crushed coral once you put it > > > in a > > > > filter media bag and inside your filter reservoir so it gets more > > > > water action going through it. The Grand Canyon didn't happen from > > > > slow moving water or stagnant water just sitting there... but fast > > > > moving water can cut through dirt and stone like a hot knife through > > > > butter, over time.. and thus, The Grand Canyon.... also what happens > > > > to a levee down here, > > > once it > > > > springs a small leak. ;-) > > > > > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com > <http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com> > > <http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com <http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com>> > > > <http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com <http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com> > <http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com <http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com>>> > > <http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com <http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com> > <http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com <http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com>> > > > <http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com <http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com> > <http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com <http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com>>>> > > > > (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the > > > > right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by > > > > Year, > > > Month) > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > > From: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com > <mailto:AquaticLife %40yahoogroups. com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife %40yahoogroups. com> > > > <mailto:AquaticLife %40yahoogroups. com> > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife %40yahoogroups. com> > > > > [mailto:AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com > <mailto:AquaticLife %40yahoogroups. com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife %40yahoogroups. com> > > > <mailto:AquaticLife %40yahoogroups. com> > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife %40yahoogroups. com>] On Behalf Of Amber Berglund > > > > Sent: Friday, June 26, 2009 11:57 AM > > > > To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com > <mailto:AquaticLife %40yahoogroups. com> > <mailto:AquaticLife %40yahoogroups. com> > > > <mailto:AquaticLife %40yahoogroups. com> > > > <mailto:AquaticLife %40yahoogroups. com> > > > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] 55 gallon community tank > > > > > > > > I want to get my pH where it is closer to my tapwater baseline so I > > > won't > > > > stress out the fish too much doing PWC's. > > > > So to do that I'm going to have to maintain a higher KH and GH > > correct? > > > > > > > > Amber > > > > > > > > Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Amber, > > > > > > > > > > Daily dosing is not required for GH/KH issues. BUT... for at least > > > > > one of the SeaChem products, Excel, I think daily dosing is at > > > > > least > > > > suggested. > > > > > > > > > > If you went with the Oyster Flour, you would only have to daily > > > > > dose for the first week or so to bring the GH/KH levels up to > > > > > where you want them. > > > > > After > > > > > that, you would just dose the water you are putting back into the > > > > > tank after your weekly tank maintenance. > > > > > > > > > > Yes, using something like the crushed coral or cuttlebone means > > > > > that you would only have to fill a filter media bag and stick that > > > > > in your filter reservoir. Then check it on a weekly basis and top > > > > > off the bag whenever it starts to get low due to the media > > dissolving. > > > > > > > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > > > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com > <http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com> > > <http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com <http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com>> > > > <http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com <http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com> > <http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com <http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com>>> > > > > <http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com <http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com> > <http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com <http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com>> > > <http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com <http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com> > <http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com <http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com>>>> > > > > > <http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com <http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com> > <http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com <http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com>> > > <http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com <http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com> > <http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com <http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com>>> > > > <http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com <http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com> > <http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com <http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com>> > > <http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com <http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com> > <http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com <http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com>>>>> > > > > (Links to any articles referenced in > > > > > above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under > > > > > Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > > > From: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com > <mailto:AquaticLife %40yahoogroups. com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife %40yahoogroups. com> > > > <mailto:AquaticLife %40yahoogroups. com> > > > <mailto:AquaticLife %40yahoogroups. com> > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife %40yahoogroups. com> > > > > > [mailto:AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com > <mailto:AquaticLife %40yahoogroups. com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife %40yahoogroups. com> > > > <mailto:AquaticLife %40yahoogroups. com> > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife %40yahoogroups. com> > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife %40yahoogroups. com>] On Behalf Of Amber > > > > > Berglund > > > > > Sent: Friday, June 26, 2009 10:05 AM > > > > > To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com > <mailto:AquaticLife %40yahoogroups. com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife %40yahoogroups. com> > > > <mailto:AquaticLife %40yahoogroups. com> > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife %40yahoogroups. com> > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife %40yahoogroups. com> > > > > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] 55 gallon community tank > > > > > > > > > > I just did my baseline tests, initial tests had my pH at 6.5-6.6 > > > > > and GH was approx 100ppm , and KH was 18ppm or less (1 drop). > > > > > pH rose to 6.8 after 24 and 48 hours, GH lowered to 38ppm after 48 > > > > > hours and KH remained the same the whole time. > > > > > As you can see I have a little GH in my tap water, but hardly any > > > > > KH at all, so I'm trying to remedy this and get my tanks at a more > > > > > reasonable KH and GH level without having to dose the tank every > > day. > > > > > Let's put it this way, if I had to take daily meds to stay alive, > > > > > I'd probably forget and die... now lets not put someone in charge > > > > > of daily dosing on a tank that's very important for the health of > > > > > the fish ;) > > > > LOL. > > > > > > > > > > Amber > > > > > > > > > > bill 1433 wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Amber!!! Sorry! I forgot something, > > > > > > > > > > > > As Len just mentioned GH and KH in your tap water is very > > > > > > important to all of this. > > > > > > > > > > > > If you will remember back some time ago I went through all of > > > > > > this BUT, I had no GH or KH at all, natural spring, well water > > > > > > here. BUT I also have an extremely low pH, 5.5 to 5.7 naturally. > > > > > > > > > > > > All of this has a direct bearing on all tests. You must know for > > > > > > sure your starting or baseline readings for pH, GH and KH. > > > > > > > > > > > > The amount of your starting readings will greatly affect the > > > > > > over-all speed which any buffer or agent like the Oyster Flour, > > > > > > crushed coral will work. Mine was very fast because of the well > > > waters > > > > low pH. > > > > > > Yours may not be. Also please remember that I had no GH or KH to > > > > > > start with. This was my whole point in playing in the water. > > > > > > With a measurable amount of GH and KH I hoped to achieve a > > > > > > buffer to guard against pH spikes and drops.. > > > > > > > > > > > > Bill > > > > > > > > > > > > --- On Fri, 6/26/09, bill 1433 <warrenprint@ yahoo.com > <mailto:warrenprint %40yahoo. com> > > <mailto:warrenprint %40yahoo. com> > > > <mailto:warrenprint %40yahoo. com> > > > > <mailto:warrenprint %40yahoo. com> > > > > > <mailto:warrenprint %40yahoo. com> > > > > > > <mailto:warrenprint %40yahoo. com>> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > From: bill 1433 <warrenprint@ yahoo.com > <mailto:warrenprint %40yahoo. com> > > <mailto:warrenprint %40yahoo. com> > > > <mailto:warrenprint %40yahoo. com> > > > > <mailto:warrenprint %40yahoo. com> > > > > > <mailto:warrenprint %40yahoo. com> > > > > > > > <mailto:warrenprint %40yahoo. com>> > > > > > > > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] 55 gallon community tank > > > > > > > To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com > <mailto:AquaticLife %40yahoogroups. com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife %40yahoogroups. com> > > > <mailto:AquaticLife %40yahoogroups. com> > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife %40yahoogroups. com> > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife %40yahoogroups. com> > > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife %40yahoogroups. com> > > > > > > > Date: Friday, June 26, 2009, 9:30 AM > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Hi Amber, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I am still trying to figure out exactly what your trying to do > > > here. > > > > > > > Sorry I lost your original post. But may I offer some food for > > > > > > > thought? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > First, here is a link and picture of the Oyster Shell Flour > > > > > > > and its > > > > > > > manufacture: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > http://www.downtoea rthdistributors. com/oystershell. html > <http://www.downtoea rthdistributors. com/oystershell. html> > > <http://www.downtoea rthdistributors. com/oystershell. html > <http://www.downtoea rthdistributors. com/oystershell. html>> > > > <http://www.downtoea rthdistributors. com/oystershell. html > <http://www.downtoea rthdistributors. com/oystershell. html> > > <http://www.downtoea rthdistributors. com/oystershell. html > <http://www.downtoea rthdistributors. com/oystershell. html>>> > > > > <http://www.downtoea rthdistributors. com/oystershell. html > <http://www.downtoea rthdistributors. com/oystershell. html> > > <http://www.downtoea rthdistributors. com/oystershell. html > <http://www.downtoea rthdistributors. com/oystershell. html>> > > > <http://www.downtoea rthdistributors. com/oystershell. html > <http://www.downtoea rthdistributors. com/oystershell. html> > > <http://www.downtoea rthdistributors. com/oystershell. html > <http://www.downtoea rthdistributors. com/oystershell. html>>>> > > > > > <http://www.downtoea rthdistributors. com/oystershell. html > <http://www.downtoea rthdistributors. com/oystershell. html> > > <http://www.downtoea rthdistributors. com/oystershell. html > <http://www.downtoea rthdistributors. com/oystershell. html>> > > > <http://www.downtoea rthdistributors. com/oystershell. html > <http://www.downtoea rthdistributors. com/oystershell. html> > > <http://www.downtoea rthdistributors. com/oystershell. html > <http://www.downtoea rthdistributors. com/oystershell. html>>> > > > > <http://www.downtoea rthdistributors. com/oystershell. html > <http://www.downtoea rthdistributors. com/oystershell. html> > > <http://www.downtoea rthdistributors. com/oystershell. html > <http://www.downtoea rthdistributors. com/oystershell. html>> > > > <http://www.downtoea rthdistributors. com/oystershell. html > <http://www.downtoea rthdistributors. com/oystershell. html> > > <http://www.downtoea rthdistributors. com/oystershell. html > <http://www.downtoea rthdistributors. com/oystershell. html>>>>> > > > > > > <http://www.downtoea rthdistributors. com/oystershell. html > <http://www.downtoea rthdistributors. com/oystershell. html> > > <http://www.downtoea rthdistributors. com/oystershell. html > <http://www.downtoea rthdistributors. com/oystershell. html>> > > > <http://www.downtoea rthdistributors. com/oystershell. html > <http://www.downtoea rthdistributors. com/oystershell. html> > > <http://www.downtoea rthdistributors. com/oystershell. html > <http://www.downtoea rthdistributors. com/oystershell. html>>> > > > > <http://www.downtoea rthdistributors. com/oystershell. html > <http://www.downtoea rthdistributors. com/oystershell. html> > > <http://www.downtoea rthdistributors. com/oystershell. html > <http://www.downtoea rthdistributors. com/oystershell. html>> > > > <http://www.downtoea rthdistributors. com/oystershell. html > <http://www.downtoea rthdistributors. com/oystershell. html> > > <http://www.downtoea rthdistributors. com/oystershell. html > <http://www.downtoea rthdistributors. com/oystershell. html>>>> > > > > > <http://www.downtoea rthdistributors. com/oystershell. html > <http://www.downtoea rthdistributors. com/oystershell. html> > > <http://www.downtoea rthdistributors. com/oystershell. html > <http://www.downtoea rthdistributors. com/oystershell. html>> > > > <http://www.downtoea rthdistributors. com/oystershell. html > <http://www.downtoea rthdistributors. com/oystershell. html> > > <http://www.downtoea rthdistributors. com/oystershell. html > <http://www.downtoea rthdistributors. com/oystershell. html>>> > > > > <http://www.downtoea rthdistributors. com/oystershell. html > <http://www.downtoea rthdistributors. com/oystershell. html> > > <http://www.downtoea rthdistributors. com/oystershell. html > <http://www.downtoea rthdistributors. com/oystershell. html>> > > > <http://www.downtoea rthdistributors. com/oystershell. html > <http://www.downtoea rthdistributors. com/oystershell. html> > > <http://www.downtoea rthdistributors. com/oystershell. html > <http://www.downtoea rthdistributors. com/oystershell. html>>>>>> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Next, I am reading in the postings this morning that your > > > > > > > adding "hand fulls" of coral to the tank? > > > > > > > If you go to far (and I did, so I know) its the devil to get > > > > > > > it back out. Use some type of bag for control. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > And finally, on the bag itself, you can get a regular one for > > > > > > > this purpose at Dr's. here: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > http://pet-supplies .drsfostersmith. com/search? af=type%3Aproduc t&ca > <http://pet-supplies .drsfostersmith. com/search? af=type%3Aproduc t&ca> > > > <http://pet-supplies .drsfostersmith. com/search? af=type%3Aproduc t&ca > <http://pet-supplies .drsfostersmith. com/search? af=type%3Aproduc t&ca>> > > > > > > <http://pet-supplies .drsfostersmith. com/search? af=type%3Aproduc t&c > <http://pet-supplies .drsfostersmith. com/search? af=type%3Aproduc t&c> > > > <http://pet-supplies .drsfostersmith. com/search? af=type%3Aproduc t&c > <http://pet-supplies .drsfostersmith. com/search? af=type%3Aproduc t&c>> > > > a> > > > > > > > > > > <http://pet-supplies .drsfostersmith. com/search? af=type%3Aproduc t&c > <http://pet-supplies .drsfostersmith. com/search? af=type%3Aproduc t&c> > > > <http://pet-supplies .drsfostersmith. com/search? af=type%3Aproduc t&c > <http://pet-supplies .drsfostersmith. com/search? af=type%3Aproduc t&c>> > > > a > > > > > > <http://pet-supplies .drsfostersmith. com/search? af=type%3Aproduc t&c > <http://pet-supplies .drsfostersmith. com/search? af=type%3Aproduc t&c> > > > <http://pet-supplies .drsfostersmith. com/search? af=type%3Aproduc t&c > <http://pet-supplies .drsfostersmith. com/search? af=type%3Aproduc t&c>> > > > a>> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > <http://pet-supplies .drsfostersmith. com/search? af=type%3Aproduc t&c > <http://pet-supplies .drsfostersmith. com/search? af=type%3Aproduc t&c> > > > <http://pet-supplies .drsfostersmith. com/search? af=type%3Aproduc t&c > <http://pet-supplies .drsfostersmith. com/search? af=type%3Aproduc t&c>> > > > > > > <http://pet-supplies .drsfostersmith. com/search? af=type%3Aproduc t&c > <http://pet-supplies .drsfostersmith. com/search? af=type%3Aproduc t&c> > > > <http://pet-supplies .drsfostersmith. com/search? af=type%3Aproduc t&c > <http://pet-supplies .drsfostersmith. com/search? af=type%3Aproduc t&c>> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > <http://pet-supplies .drsfostersmith. com/search? af=type%3Aproduc t&c > <http://pet-supplies .drsfostersmith. com/search? af=type%3Aproduc t&c> > > > <http://pet-supplies .drsfostersmith. com/search? af=type%3Aproduc t&c > <http://pet-supplies .drsfostersmith. com/search? af=type%3Aproduc t&c>> > > > > > > <http://pet-supplies .drsfostersmith. com/search? af=type%3Aproduc t&c > <http://pet-supplies .drsfostersmith. com/search? af=type%3Aproduc t&c> > > > <http://pet-supplies .drsfostersmith. com/search? af=type%3Aproduc t&c > <http://pet-supplies .drsfostersmith. com/search? af=type%3Aproduc t&c>> > > > >> > > > > > a> > > > > > > rtcount=0&wishcount =0&subtotal= 0.00&w=mesh+ bag&asug= mesh > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > <http://pet-supplies .drsfostersmith. com/search? af=type%3Aproduc t&c > <http://pet-supplies .drsfostersmith. com/search? af=type%3Aproduc t&c> > > > <http://pet-supplies .drsfostersmith. com/search? af=type%3Aproduc t&c > <http://pet-supplies .drsfostersmith. com/search? af=type%3Aproduc t&c>> > > > > > > <http://pet-supplies .drsfostersmith. com/search? af=type%3Aproduc t&c > <http://pet-supplies .drsfostersmith. com/search? af=type%3Aproduc t&c> > > > <http://pet-supplies .drsfostersmith. com/search? af=type%3Aproduc t&c > <http://pet-supplies .drsfostersmith. com/search? af=type%3Aproduc t&c>> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > <http://pet-supplies .drsfostersmith. com/search? af=type%3Aproduc t&c > <http://pet-supplies .drsfostersmith. com/search? af=type%3Aproduc t&c> > > > <http://pet-supplies .drsfostersmith. com/search? af=type%3Aproduc t&c > <http://pet-supplies .drsfostersmith. com/search? af=type%3Aproduc t&c>> > > > > > > <http://pet-supplies .drsfostersmith. com/search? af=type%3Aproduc t&c > <http://pet-supplies .drsfostersmith. com/search? af=type%3Aproduc t&c> > > > <http://pet-supplies .drsfostersmith. com/search? af=type%3Aproduc t&c > <http://pet-supplies .drsfostersmith. com/search? af=type%3Aproduc t&c>> > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > <http://pet-supplies .drsfostersmith. com/search? af=type%3Aproduc t&c > <http://pet-supplies .drsfostersmith. com/search? af=type%3Aproduc t&c> > > > <http://pet-supplies .drsfostersmith. com/search? af=type%3Aproduc t&c > <http://pet-supplies .drsfostersmith. com/search? af=type%3Aproduc t&c>> > > > > > > <http://pet-supplies .drsfostersmith. com/search? af=type%3Aproduc t&c > <http://pet-supplies .drsfostersmith. com/search? af=type%3Aproduc t&c> > > > <http://pet-supplies .drsfostersmith. com/search? af=type%3Aproduc t&c > <http://pet-supplies .drsfostersmith. com/search? af=type%3Aproduc t&c>> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > <http://pet-supplies .drsfostersmith. com/search? af=type%3Aproduc t&c > <http://pet-supplies .drsfostersmith. com/search? af=type%3Aproduc t&c> > > > <http://pet-supplies .drsfostersmith. com/search? af=type%3Aproduc t&c > <http://pet-supplies .drsfostersmith. com/search? af=type%3Aproduc t&c>> > > > > > > <http://pet-supplies .drsfostersmith. com/search? af=type%3Aproduc t&c > <http://pet-supplies .drsfostersmith. com/search? af=type%3Aproduc t&c> > > > <http://pet-supplies .drsfostersmith. com/search? af=type%3Aproduc t&c > <http://pet-supplies .drsfostersmith. com/search? af=type%3Aproduc t&c>> > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > artcount=0&wishcoun t=0&subtotal= 0.00&w=mesh+ bag&asug= mesh> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Now if you are using your own, as Len mentioned, not > > > > > > > Fish-Nets, use real nylons. By that I mean stockings, not > > pantyhose. Why? > > > > > > > While I am not proficient in ladies wear, I am almost positive > > > > > > > that pantyhose products contain Spandex? I don't think you > > > > > > > want that chemical in your aquarium water as it could break > > > > > > > down in time and who knows were that could lead. Stay with > > > > > > > anything that's 100% nylon. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > "Playing in the Water" as I like to call it, is not advisable > > > > > > > but it can be done. If your taking readings and the proper > > > > > > > notes, over time you will develope a regular system and once > > > > > > > your goals are reached you will learn how much water to use in > > > > > > > your regualr water changes so as to not upset the balance you > > > > > > > have acheieved. You mentioned this morning about having that > > > > > > > coral from the orginal owner? > > > > > > > Please tell me you "sterlized" what portions you are using > > > > > > > BEFORE putting it into your aquarium? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Bill > > > > > > > > > > > > > > --- On Fri, 6/26/09, Lenny V. aka GoldLenny > > > <GoldLenny@gmail. com <mailto:GoldLenny% 40gmail.com> > <mailto:GoldLenny% 40gmail.com> > > <mailto:GoldLenny% 40gmail.com> > > > > <mailto:GoldLenny% 40gmail.com> > > > > > <mailto:GoldLenny% 40gmail.com> > > > > > > <mailto:GoldLenny% 40gmail.com> > > > > > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@gmail. com > <mailto:GoldLenny% 40gmail.com> > > <mailto:GoldLenny% 40gmail.com> > > > <mailto:GoldLenny% 40gmail.com> > > > > <mailto:GoldLenny% 40gmail.com> > > > > > <mailto:GoldLenny% 40gmail.com> > > > > > > <mailto:GoldLenny% 40gmail.com> > > > > > > > > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] 55 gallon community tank > > > > > > > To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com > <mailto:AquaticLife %40yahoogroups. com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife %40yahoogroups. com> > > > <mailto:AquaticLife %40yahoogroups. com> > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife %40yahoogroups. com> > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife %40yahoogroups. com> > > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife %40yahoogroups. com> > > > > > > > Date: Friday, June 26, 2009, 4:59 AM > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I've never seen a good article on the proper use of crushed > > coral. > > > > > > > I think there are so many variables that it's hard to know > > > > > > > precisely how much to use. It's probably something someone > > > > > > > with multiple tanks could do and keep accurate records over > > > > > > > the course of several months and then come up with some kind > > > > > > > of formula, then publish the formula to get more people trying > > > > > > > it and reporting back with their results to make sure the > > > > > > > formula works for the > > > > masses. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > The problems that I see is that the more acidic the water, the > > > > > > > faster the coral would be dissolve BUT if the water is acidic > > > > > > > and has a high GH and low KH, then the calcium side of the > > > > > > > coral would not dissolve as fast. If the water is acidic and > > > > > > > has a high KH and low GH, then the carbonate side would not > > > > > > > dissolve as fast. If the water is not acidic, then the coral > > > > > > > would dissolve much slower. Of course, the flow rate of the > > > > > > > water through the filter also has some factor in the dissolve > > > > > > > rate. I'm not sure how these variables would affect how much > > > > > > > should be used. I'm guessing there would have to be a baseline > > > > > > > established at 7.0 pH with moderate GH and KH levels and then > > > > > > > work up and down from there. One figure I've seen posted in > > > > > > > forums before was 1kg per 40 liters of water, when used as in > > > > > > > the substrate. That would translate to around 2 pounds per > > 10G of > > water. > > > > > > > Obviously, not > > > > > > > something you could fit in a filter system. That's the other > > > > > > > problem for many folks. While folks with BIG canister filters > > > > > > > could use the crushed coral in a filter media bag in their > > > > > > > filter reservoir, this isn't possible with most of the smaller > > HOB's. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I think it really comes down to each fishkeeper coming up with > > > > > > > their own "system" of how to use crushed coral or cuttlebone. > > > > > > > That's the good thing > > > > > > > about using things like Baking Soda and Oyster Flour... > > > > > > > they can be > > > > > > > precisely measured, dosed and measured with test kits to see > > > > > > > that they are doing what they are supposed to be doing. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Of course, when things get too complicated. .. keep fish that > > > > > > > like your source water in the first place. Of course, when one > > > > > > > wants to have a heavily planted tank and/or keep fish that do > > > > > > > not do well with their baseline water, then these other > > > > > > > measures become necessary. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > > > > > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com > <http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com> > > <http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com <http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com>> > > > <http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com <http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com> > <http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com <http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com>>> > > > > <http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com <http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com> > <http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com <http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com>> > > <http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com <http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com> > <http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com <http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com>>>> > > > > > <http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com <http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com> > <http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com <http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com>> > > <http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com <http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com> > <http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com <http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com>>> > > > <http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com <http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com> > <http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com <http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com>> > > <http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com <http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com> > <http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com <http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com>>>>> > > > > > > <http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com > <http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com> <http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com > <http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com>> > > <http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com <http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com> > <http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com <http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com>>> > > > <http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com <http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com> > <http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com <http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com>> > > <http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com <http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com> > <http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com <http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com>>>> > > > > <http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com <http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com> > <http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com <http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com>> > > <http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com <http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com> > <http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com <http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com>>> > > > <http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com <http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com> > <http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com <http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com>> > > <http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com <http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com> > <http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com <http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com>>>>>> > > > > > > > (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on > > > > > > > the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under > > > > > > > Archives by Year, Month) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > > > > > From: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com > <mailto:AquaticLife %40yahoogroups. com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife %40yahoogroups. com> > > > <mailto:AquaticLife %40yahoogroups. com> > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife %40yahoogroups. com> > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife %40yahoogroups. com> > > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife %40yahoogroups. com> > > > > > > > [mailto:AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com > <mailto:AquaticLife %40yahoogroups. com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife %40yahoogroups. com> > > > <mailto:AquaticLife %40yahoogroups. com> > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife %40yahoogroups. com> > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife %40yahoogroups. com> > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife %40yahoogroups. com>] > > > > > > > On > > > > > > > Behalf Of Amber Berglund > > > > > > > Sent: Friday, June 26, 2009 12:44 AM > > > > > > > To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com > <mailto:AquaticLife %40yahoogroups. com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife %40yahoogroups. com> > > > <mailto:AquaticLife %40yahoogroups. com> > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife %40yahoogroups. com> > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife %40yahoogroups. com> > > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife %40yahoogroups. com> > > > > > > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] 55 gallon community tank > > > > > > > > > > > > > > most of the crushed coral is sold live, they're getting it > > > > > > > somewhere, hmmm... wonder where? ;) Should I wait to add any > > > > > > > more of the crushed coral? > > > > > > > I'm not sure how fast it would normally affect the GH or KH. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Amber > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > OOHHHH.. so now we have a conspiracy of reef > > > > > > > destroyers. LOL > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I wonder where they get the "crushed coral" that is > > > > > > > sold? I see that > > > > > > > > the CaribSea brand is called Florida Crushed Coral. > > > > > > > With the > > > > > > > > protection that most places give to their coral reefs, > > > > > > > you would think > > > > > > > > that selling crushed coral would be a no-no. Florida > > > > > > > even has a > > > > > > > > section of their Dept. Of Environmental Protection > > > > > > > website talking > > > > > > > > about saving their reefs. > > > > > > > > > > > http://www.dep. state.fl. us/coastal/ programs/ coral/maritime. htm > <http://www.dep. state.fl. us/coastal/ programs/ coral/maritime. htm> > > <http://www.dep. state.fl. us/coastal/ programs/ coral/maritime. htm > <http://www.dep. state.fl. us/coastal/ programs/ coral/maritime. htm>> > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 41487	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 6/26/2009
Subject: Re: Angels Please help???

If your tank isn't cycled properly, that is, if the nitrogen cycle isn't fully established, then you are better off leaving just the two fish for now until you go through the entire "Cycling With Fish" process. If you haven't read it yet, I have a link to a thorough "Cycling With Fish" article on my blog article "A To Z Of Fish Keeping". Since you do not understand the nitrogen cycle, while on my "A To Z..." page, also take one or both of the Tutorials which will walk you through all beginner aspects of fish keeping. Taking one or both of these free and online tutorials will bring you a LONG way towards being a much better fish keeper and understanding how the ecosystem in an aquarium works. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Joellen & Kevin Analla Sent: Friday, June 26, 2009 4:45 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: Angels Please help??? I guess i need to go buy a nitrate test kit because I do not have one. But as for the amonia i tested it before pwc and it was 1.0 and i tested it agien this morning and amonia level never droped it is still 1.0. I removed about 15 gal. when doing pwc... And I think Ray asked "what else was in tank?" there is nothing in the 55 gal. but those lonely 2 angels. Are angels the only fish that would be effected or can i put other types in there? later of course .... --- On Fri, 6/26/09, Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@...> wrote: From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@...> Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: Angels Please help??? To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Date: Friday, June 26, 2009, 4:57 PM OK. I should have also asked for your nitrAte reading. That would be the final number needed to know if the tank is "cycling" properly. In fact, it's best to do all four tests at the same time (ammonia, nitrite, nitrate, pH) and water temp too. If you are still getting an ammonia reading and your nitrite is 0.0 and your nitrates are climbing, then that means the tank is cycling but it means something happened to cause the ammonia eating bacteria to falter. If there is only an ammonia reading and 0.0 for nitrite and 0.0 for nitrate, then that means the tank is probably not cycling properly. If we find out your tank isn't cycling properly, then MAYBE the cause of death to your angelfish could be related to cycling issues and ammonia poisoning but if your tank is cycling properly, then things lean heavily back towards Ray's explanation. Even if your tank isn't cycling properly, it could still be the disease that Ray talked about and the ammonia poisoning just caused the weaker fish to succumb even quicker. Based on all that Ray has said, you should DEFINITELY wait another month or so to make sure your remaining two angelfish survive. Once they seem healthy and we know your tank is fully cycled properly, then you can start looking for a new source of fish. And even if you do find a new source, you should still quarantine the new fish for up to a month or so to make sure they remain healthy before you risk adding them to your current tank. Of course, if Ray is correct about the disease issue, then even after you add the fish to the main tank, they could contract the disease and succumb to it. Of course, you could try adding some of your main tank water to the quarantine tank, maybe a cup or two a day, to see if the new fish might be able to build up a resistance to the suspected disease... kind of like a vaccination works on us humans and other pets. This is only a theory so wait for Ray to chime in on whether this would be a workable plan or not. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com [mailto:AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com] On Behalf Of Joellen & Kevin Analla Sent: Friday, June 26, 2009 1:07 PM To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: Angels Please help??? nitrite is at 0.0...im sorry. So because Ray says its a virus that killed all but 2 angels, how long should i wait before trying to add more from a different source of course....Jo --- On Fri, 6/26/09, Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@gmail. com> wrote: From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@gmail. com> Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: Angels Please help??? To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com Date: Friday, June 26, 2009, 12:37 PM As Ray has stated, your ammonia level of 1.0, at pH 6.6, is not toxic or even harmful to them, unless your tank water is REALLY warm. As long as it is around 78-80F, then you are OK. The toxicity of ammonia is affected by pH and temperature, the higher the pH and higher the temperature, the more ammonia becomes toxic. Here is a site that has charts showing the toxicity level of ammonia at the various pH levels. http://dataguru. org/misc/ aquarium/ AmmoniaTox. html When you say "nitrite is good", what is the actual test result? Anything over 0.0ppm is NOT good. All of this said, it's still best that a fish tank be fully cycled when adding new fish and that the ammonia/nitrite levels be monitored on a daily basis after adding new fish to make sure the "Cycle" is able to keep up with the added bioload. If the ammonia/nitrite start to spike to dangerous levels, then PWC's would be needed. Adding a pinch of salt, per 10G, will also help to prevent nitrite poisoning (brown blood disorder) during these cycling issues. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com [mailto:AquaticLife @ yahoogroups. com] On Behalf Of Joellen & Kevin Analla Sent: Friday, June 26, 2009 10:14 AM To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: Angels Please help??? Well i just got done testing my water and amoniais still at 1.0, should i go buy an amonia tablet that removes amonia? the 2 angels are still alive and eating and appear to look healthy still waiting tho. Ph is still low at 6.6 and nitrite is good. ...Jo --- On Fri, 6/26/09, Raymond Wetzel <sevenspringss@ wmconnect. com> wrote: From: Raymond Wetzel <sevenspringss@ wmconnect. com> Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Angels Please help??? To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com Date: Friday, June 26, 2009, 10:52 AM I meant to add something to this, but sent it before I thought of completing it. Anyway, in short -- it appeared as though you had a mini-cycle (like your tank was not properly cycled at the time to be able to handle the ammonia). Now, as for water changes, while it's alway best to keep your ammonia at a minimum, you don't want to remove it all physically before your ammonia-converting bacteria have had a chance to utilize it to build up their population to a proper level -- to re-cycle your tank. Then too, I don't know the pH of your tap water and how much each PWC will affect your present pH reading. As I've stated before, your fish are safe with a 1.0 ppm level of total Ammonia at a pH of 6.6. It would take quite a bit of PWCing to change your pH drastically enough so that this Ammonia would be toxic to your fish, even if your tap water were at pH 7.8. You should know though, that besides the pH affecting the toxicity of Ammonia, the temperature also plays a role in it. At 68 o, this level (1.0 ppm) of total ammonia does not become toxic until the pH falls to 7.7. At 74 o, a pH of 7.6 is required to make the Ammonia toxic (creating/convertin g enough free-Ammonia from the Ammonium) and at a temperature of 80 o, this same level of Ammonia will become toxic at pH 7.5. It will not be lethal though, until the temperature gets to 85 o at pH 7.6. This is on average as each species is affected a bit differently by Ammonia, some being a bit more intolerant than others, but it's sufficiently in the ball park. Ray --- In AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com, Joellen & Kevin Analla <anallafamily. 2001@...> wrote: > > Well as I know there is no exact amount of time for a tank to cycle it > has been set up for at least 2 mo. and before I put angels in it I > tested ammonia and it was ok. The ammonia levels have raised only > since the fish have been dieing. Well yesterday I did a partial water > change to try and lower ammonia levels. I have yet to test it this > morning to see if it helped. Jo > > --- On Thu, 6/25/09, Raymond Wetzel <sevenspringss@ ...> wrote: > > > From: Raymond Wetzel <sevenspringss@ ...> > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Angels Please help??? > To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com > Date: Thursday, June 25, 2009, 9:59 AM > > > > > > > > > Hi Amber, Going with everything I read of Jo's postings on the > scenario of this whole situation, yes, I can only conclude with a good deal of certainty that here fish are dying as a result of this infection. This terrible disease was prevalent some 15 to 20 years ago, first eminating, then spreading friom the Far East. While I've lived through this period and have experienced this whole sequence of events day to day of the hobby being so adversely affected by this disease, this is not my reason for my coming to this conclusion. Devastating as it was, I am not an alarmist. > > Others here, who may never have heard of this disease (or who may > have, but think this is now past history), cannot know that this disease still survives today in Angelfish from Angelfish stocks still being produced in those areas (Asia & Florida) where the disease originated and then was most prevalent. This disease was never conquered. The Far Eastern Angelfish breeders were never completely wiped out (even though extremely affected by hugh losses) to the point that they started back completely fresh with completely all new stock. The Angelfish stock that they were left with, that finally survived the onslaught due to their immunity system finally coping with this disease is the same stock they continued with -- now a necessarily stronger breeder stock for them and the Florida fish farmers, in that they have a higher immune system to be able to deal with this virus that co-exists with them in their systems. > > However, even though the juveniles from this stock (possibly the 4th > or 5th generation by now, from when this first started) are expose to > this virus early on in their lives -- their immune systems having to have built up against this disease as they grew to selling size -- the stress of shipping when combined with the constant battle of their immune systems having to deal with this ever-present virus in their systems (due to its ongoing presence in their environment) is just too much for them to endure. The influences of both stresses soon take their toll, manifested as losses within 6 or 7 days for most of the stock that were subjected to the stress of shipping. Any other Angels that seemingly were not quite as affected/stressed by shipping immediately may live a short while later, but by this time the virus is now overpowering their immune system to the point of eventually (often within the month) killing them. Obviously, introducing any Angels in with these infected fish during this time of them living in limbo is to be subjecting these new Angels to a disease they've never seen and have no defence at all for, with the inevitable loss of them as well. The infected environment is just as deadly to any new Angels, even without the presence of infected fish, until this environment is disinfected. This disease still persists today -- it has never been irradiacated and is an unfortunate situation for an unsuspecting hobbyist who has no previous knowledge of it, when they buy such fish from those sources (like Walmart) which persist in selling them only because these fish are the lowest price their management can find to contract with. It's a very dangerous situation. > > Now, getting back to these other points you've brought up, which need addressing. While, as \\Steve// says, ideally no ammonia should be permitted to exist, and while Jo's ammonia level of 1.0 ppm does certainly appear to be the direct result of an uncycled tank (since ammonia has shown to build up in her tank from 0.0 ppm to 1.0 ppm, yet is not being converted to nitrite) still, with Jo's ph at between 6.5 (original post) and 6.6 (follow-up post) any and all Ammonia would be in the form or relatively harmless Ammonium -- not affecting the Angelfish detrimentally in the least -- so we can rule this out, if that's what you need done. I cannot condone the use of buffers to lower the pH either, and again go right along with \\Steve// on this. Not only as it's not at all needed (especially in this situation of maintaining Angelfish) but can lead to serious consequences such as unstable pH levels and/or even possible pH crashes as \\Steve// points out. > > Still, I see no evidence of Jo having to add any additional amounts of > pH buffer between PWC's because of the buffer being exhausted, nor have I seen any high pH level readings, although there still may have been some between PWC's, which may not have been tested for. Likewise, I have fortunately not seen evidence of a pH crash, nor any possible cause for pH shock as a result of such a crash. Jo's methods of acclimating may leave more to be desired even though the concept is correct as, unless she has not given a full description, this tank water introduction to the bucket containing the fish does seem to be too abbreviated. Full acclimation requires more than one or two cups of new water over a period of 15 minutes (as I seem to perceive from her post), but it's possible she may just not have gone into the repetition of this procedure. > > In all, with taking into consideration all possible negative points > you've brought up and needed to have addressed, or that \\Steve// or I > could think of to be ruled out, I cannot see where any of these other > possibilities could enter into consideration -- especially when > realizing that these deaths were not a one-time occurance, but have > repeatedly happened with each numerous addition of new Angelfish in > the many attempts to introduce them to her tank. One might be able to > say that in isolated incidences, that a certain batch of Angelfish may > have been pH-shocked, or that another batch of Angelfish may have been > inadvertantly subjected to lethal levels of ammonia at some point -- > which appears quite remote, even if I'm reaching for straws -- but > when repeated batches of Angelfish die for no other apparent reason > there is a pattern that develops which to me has no other answer than > this Virus by what is occurring -- when looking at all other details > involved in this picture. I've seen it too many times to not ignore > it, nor mistake it for anything else. Ray > > --- In AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com, Amber Berglund <amber@> wrote: > > > > Ray are you sure that his fish are dying to this infection rather > > than dying from ammonia poisoning from an uncycled tank? Not to > > mention he used a pH adjusting buffer to lower his pH... > > This might just be a lack of experience too I would think it's > > possible at least. We should at least rule those out before rushing > > into thinking it's a serious problem right from the bat (the > > Angelfish infection). > > > > Amber > > > > Raymond Wetzel wrote: > > > > > > > > > By your post, it appears that you've taken the time to read over > > > my message on the topic, so you could finally understand it -- > > > which I appreciate your doing, as it will only benefit yourself. > > > Your two remaining Angelfish stand a better chance of dying a > > > premature death, and that death may come even sooner than later. I > > > have seen other hobbyists maintaining a few remnant Angels from > > > such origins after the rest of the original stocks of them had > > > perished, only to pass on within the following month (or two, at > > > the latest). You may try to return these two Angels for store > > > credit, if they'll allow it, but otherwise, you'd need to keep > > > only these two until something happens to them. > > > > > > To add any Angelfish from other sources to these two Angelfish, > > > would be to subject them to an infection that they have no > > > immunity for, with the inevitable results of their dying from > > > this, and quite fast. > > > If you want more Angels, and if you want healthy Angels, there is > > > no other choice than to put them in a clean, disinfected tank that > > > you're sure does not contain any disease -- which requires that > > > these two Angelfish no longer inhabit this tank, one way or another. > > > > > > IF there is a better way (and I know of no other way), I would be > > > more than pleased to tell you. As for knowing that a fish will be > > > okay, I can only tell you this -- that I, nor anyone else, cannot > > > say with 100% certainty that your two remaining Angelfish are not > > > okay -- it's impossible for me to be able to do that from where I > > > am (not within reach of your fish) or without the benefit of a > > > slide smear of this fish's waste to evaluate under the microscope. > > > But ALL things you've related about these fish and their deceased > > > siblings, including their source, the suddenness of their demise > > > and the repetition of these same circumstances spells out for me > > > with enough certainty with all I've experienced and learned of > > > this very disease, that this is indeed the dreaded fatal pathogen > > > that has plagued Angelfish ongoing from a quarter century ago. > > > > > > I could choose to see your Angelfish loses as just the chance > > > results of poorer than required water conditions combined with > > > your possible inexperience with them and the luck of the draw > > > along with the inevitableness of young Angels dying en-mass for > > > unexplained reasons not unrelated to your general lack of aquarium > > > knowledge at this stage of the game -- as some here may be > > > suggesting -- but to do so would be to go against everything I've > > > learned about Angelfish in 62 years of working with them, and > > > living through the horrid period of decimation of these fish > > > through the spread of this Virus. > > > > > > I've seen many, many cases of this virus striking Angelfish and > > > have known many Angelfish breeders who were effected by the > > > devastation of it and the experiences they've gone through during > > > the peak period when this Virus was at its worst. > > > > > > AND . . . > > > > > > I have seen in TODAY's WORLD, the EXACT same thing as you are > > > describing happening to you, of Angelfish being sold by Walmart > > > (and > > > others) which are infected by this virus and which have been > > > dropping otherwise unexplainedly like flies -- INCLUDING having > > > one or two fish temporarily survive this onslault only to died > > > within the following month. I DO NOT think this is all > > > coincidental. My brother (who had yet to learn of this disease) > > > experienced the VERY things with young Angelfish he recently > > > bought from Walmart a couple of months ago, amost word for word. > > > In his case, his lone surviving Angel lasted another 3 weeks after > > > the first ones died -- and he knows about keeping fish properly. > > > Many of my customers (fish store owners who purchase my Angelfish) > > > have told me of the quality of Angelfish (and the Virus they still > > > carry) they've bought in the recent past from both Florida and > > > directly from the Far East that just fold up on them within a > > > week's time, often resulting in complete losses -- the unaccounted > > > for ones having already been sold prior to the end of the week. > > > These sources and the Angelfish Virus they promote through selling > > > infected fish are still notorious for spreading this disease with > > > the help of unknowing dealers and hobbyists even today. > > > > > > Of course, you do not need to believe me, but then it would be > > > folly to continue in the manner you're attempting to add Angelfish > > > to your tank in hopes they'll survive. For all we know though, > > > without having your two Angelfish analyzed, they may be the > > > healthiest Angels on earth -- But I wouldn't want to bet the farm > > > on it! > > > > > > I suggested to you what needs to be done to succeed. You may > > > follow this advice, or you may ignore it -- that's your decision. > > > When buying from a different source, a reputable breeder who has > > > reliably supplied quality disease-free Angelfish for many years > > > simply cannot afford to risk selling diseased Angelfish, and still > > > have his business and reputation survive. IF contemplating buying > > > from such a known and reputable dealer, you need to make sure whom > > > you are dealing with. > > > There are many reputable Angelfish breeders in existance, but with > > > your not having the experience to know which are the better ones, > > > you may not know yet who to buy from with confidence. I WILL tell > > > you that you can't expect to pay Walmart prices and still get good > > > fish. A lot of work goes into raising these Angelfish and as a > > > result these breeders will (need) to charge more, but a good > > > breeder will be fair > > > -- he does not need to price-gouge. If you're still following up > > > on this, and need further advise, there are a number of people > > > here who can best assist you with recommending breeders of quality > > > Angels. I can start by wholeheartedly recommending Steve Rybicki > > > of Angels Plus as one whom I can vouch for selling disease-free > > > Angelfish; Steve's been in the business for at least 25 years. Ray > > > > > > --- In AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com <mailto:AquaticLife > > > %40yahoogroups. com>, Joellen & Kevin Analla <anallafamily. 2001@> > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > So basically what your saying is that all fish in tank (2Angels) > > > must die then i need to disinfect all equipment then start all > > > over buying from a different source but theres no garanteen that > > > even a differant source could still get infected in that case i > > > would have to repeat process agian......Really isnt there a better > > > way, or even a way of knowing that fish will be ok . > > > > > > > > --- On Wed, 6/24/09, Raymond Wetzel <sevenspringss@ > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > From: Raymond Wetzel <sevenspringss@ > > > > > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Angels Please help??? > > > > To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com <mailto:AquaticLife > > > > %40yahoogroups. com> > > > > Date: Wednesday, June 24, 2009, 1:33 AM > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Hello Jo, So sorry you are running into this frustrating > > > > experience > > > in trying to keep Angelfish, when the species is not difficult to > > > maintain. Ordinarily, we would ask just what you meant (and will > > > still do this) when you say that your water is all testing okay. > > > When giving us any of your data concerning your water parameters, > > > we prefer to have number to be evaluate your circumstances, and > > > the actual test results in ppm (parts per million) best reflect > > > your actual conditions. If you could give us your test results for > > > pH, ammonia, nitrite and even nitrate, it could be a great help. > > > If you can provide results for temporary hardness (KH) and > > > total/general hardness (GH), this may be of further assistance to > > > us -- the more information, the better. BUT, in this particular > > > case, I do not believe it's your water quality that's at fault, > > > even though we need to rule that out. > > > > > > > > Most unfortunately, new prospective Angelfish hobbyists will run > > > into this situation when buying from retailers who prefer > > > obtaining their Angelfish stocks indiscriminantly, possibly in an > > > effort to save money or perhaps just for the convenience. However, > > > in buying in essence what can be established as inferior stock, I > > > fail to see what they think they gain. Unfortunately too, the > > > customer (you) is too often unsuspecting of this possibility and > > > blame the deaths of these fish on themselves, when in truth it's > > > the poor stock itself that these outlets continue to retail -- > > > despite the many losses they themselves have with each re-stocking. > > > > > > > > These retailers know that they will not be alienating their > > > customers, as these customers are completely unaware that this > > > stock is inferior, and in their quest to maintain this beautiful > > > species, they repeatedly buy new stock in hopes they can keep them > > > alive. Some of the larger chain stores (and some smaller shops) > > > operate in this manner, Walmart having been one of them until they > > > gave up selling tropical fish; these stores continuing to buy > > > their Angels only from preferred sources which may include a > > > headquarter- -designated distributor, a Florida fish farm, a local > > > wholesaler that buys from either Florida or the Far East, or a Far > > > East breeding establishment- -exporter -- rather than a reputable domestic breeder. > > > > > > > > Now, getting to the root of this practice and its problem. Going > > > back some 15 years or slightly more, there was a major outbreak of > > > a horrific Angelfish Virus disease originating in the Far East, > > > decimating Angelfish stocks there as well as in this country when > > > it was introduced here through imports of that stock into this country. > > > Many domestic Angelfish breeders in this country were wiped out or > > > at least partially effected, not suspecting this problem, and > > > mixed that stock with theirs. The problem didn't stop there in > > > this country as a good number of the Florida fish farmers also > > > introduced this diseased Asian stock of Angelfish to their > > > hatcheries in efforts to strengthen their own stocks with "new > > > blood," not yet knowing the consequences they would have to pay. > > > > > > > > Gradually, this disease was finally contained although never > > > completely cured. Those Asian stocks that survived were > > > strengthened by natural selection to be able to remain viable > > > while still carrying th Virus as a latent disease always present > > > but under control of these latest Angelfish's adapted immune > > > systems. This same adaptation of the Angelfish's immune system to > > > contain this Virus as of late, also emerged from those Florida > > > fish farm's stocks which were similarly effected. > > > > > > > > As a result, most any Angelfish derived today from either those > > > effected Florida fish farms or those Far Eastern > > > hatchery/exporters carry this Virus as a weaker (as controlled now > > > by these Angels' new but limited immunity), yet still viable > > > disease still capable of overtaking the Angelfish as soon as > > > receieves enough stress. This shared (but not mutually beneficial > > > where the fish is concerned) existance is called "symbiosis," and > > > is seen also in many Cichlids -- including Angelfish -- as > > > Hexamita, where this protozoan resides in a latent condition in > > > the fish's intestine, only to overtake the fish when the fish experiences sufficient stress for it to do so. > > > > > > > > So, now when these Angelfish (carrying this disease) reach your > > > local fish store, they look fine at first and appear most healthy. > > > However, the stress of shipping soon takes its toll over the next > > > week as the disease now devastates these stressed and weakened > > > fish. These fish are not expected to last much more than an > > > average of 6 or 7 days as a result of what happens with them. > > > Likewise, many (most?) of the same fish in these stores that stock > > > them soon die also (they are KNOWN to fold up), but the > > > storekeeper has still made his profit and has "satisfied" his > > > customers, which causes them to keep coming back to those stores. > > > > > > > > If any of this rings a bell for you, you may finally be > > > understanding what's happening with your Angelfish. A few, such as > > > the two you have that survived so far will live for an > > > undetermined period of time, but their days are still numbered > > > (could live for another few weeks or so). If you still want to > > > keep Angelfish, you cannot continue to buy them from this present > > > source as they'll meet the same fate, nor can you add any other > > > Angelfish to this tank from a different source as they'll become > > > infected. I really hate to have to suggest this, and I don't know > > > if you have any other species of fish presently in this tank, but > > > before you add any more Angels -- and they MUST be from a > > > reputable domestic breeder -- this tank and all its equipment must > > > be disinfected after these two remaining Angels secumb. I hope > > > this whole scenario of events as pertains to Angelfish has been at > > > least enlightening for you, and will serve to assist you in the > > > future (we'll > > > > still be here to help). I regret that since you most probably > > > > have > > > introduced disease-carrying Angelfish unknowingly, that you'll > > > have a long road ahead of you in maintaining your goal, but at > > > least now you know what to expect. Please keep us posted, Ray > > > > > > > > --- In AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com, "anallafamily. 2001" > > > <anallafamily. 2001@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > I'm new to the group so just let me know if I say or do > > > > > something > > > not right...... > > > > > My Question.... I wanted to start up an angel tank so I have a > > > 55gal set up.. I keep buying 5 angels at a time and they keep > > > dying slowly but surely.. I think altogether I have bought 16 > > > Angels and I have managed to get 2 to live for at least 6 days > > > now. I have plenty of filtration and water flow, I have ph at 6.5 > > > and water is all testing ok... So what am I doing wrong? and > > > should I go get more since I got 2 to live uhhhhhh What do I do I > > > feel like I want to give up but I really thought they were such a beautiful fish. > > > > > Please Help Jo..

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 41488	From: Sam Palermo	Date: 6/26/2009
Subject: Re: O/T - PC Malfunctions

Hello Ray; I have no back ground info on your computer such as age, type of motherboard, Processor type but in some cases this very same problem is observed when capacitors go bad on the motherboard. While thermal overload and power supply problems can also be a problem, it has been my experience in 134 computer builds and who knows how many repairs that people do not seem to know or realize that these things happen. An experienced computer person would spot these right away. If you look into your computer and see capacitors that are expanded and or have yellow stuff coming from the top area then this would be the case. This would necessitate a new motherboard. The good news is that your information would be still on you hard drive but you might have to put another drive in a computer to boot to the place where you could plug this one in to get to the information. Just the offer of one more possibility. Best regards, Sam Palermo, Chief Engineer Skywave Broadcast Engineering, Chicago (708)334-2260 Past Teac/Tascam Service Technician still doing repairs. Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > > > One other thing Ray. Besides vacuuming the vents and fans, if it is an > overheating problem causing your computer shut-down issues. Cracking open > the side of the case a little will also help by creating some thermal > circulation (you know how hot air rises which would then suck in > cooler air > into the case) to aid in cooling off the inside of the case. If the fans > aren't working well or at all, then opening the case completely and > aiming a > small fan at the inside of the case will also help keep it cooler. Then > shutting down all non-essential programs and processes will further > help it > to run cooler until you can repair the fan(s). > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right > side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On > Behalf Of Eric Roberts > Sent: Friday, June 26, 2009 3:03 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: O/T - PC Malfunctions > > YEah...that's what it sounds like...especially if you fire something > up that > either uses a lot of processor is is very graphical. The bearings in fans > go bad. They are pretty easy to replace as they are usually situated > on top > of heat sinks. If you don;t have any computer stores near you, there are a > ton of shops online that specialize in cooling fans and other cooling > supplies. I used to do a lot of overclocking, which causes cpu's and > graphic cards to run hotter than normal so I was always beefing up my > cooling...even cutting a couple of holes on the top of my case and putting > in some fans that were the same width as my case. Sounded like a jet > engine, but it kept the case cool hehehe. > > Eric > > On Fri, Jun 26, 2009 at 2:59 PM, Raymond Wetzel > <sevenspringss@... <mailto:sevenspringss%40wmconnect.com> > > wrote: > > > > > > > Thank you for your advice, Eric. I was told something similar about a > > possible faulty fan by ole Bill, so your post certainly backs this up. > > Makes sense as it generally happens after about two hours of operation > > -- giving the machine plenty of time to heat up if the fan isn't > > operating. I'll check that out and check out the powerstrip as well. > > Thanks again, Ray > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>, > > Eric Roberts <woad@...> wrote: > > > > > > No there is no fuse in a computer...you surge protector can go bad > > causing > > > it to trip off at much lighter loads than normal. Try plugging the > > computer > > > directly into the wall and see if it shuts down on its own. if it > > > doesn't then the powerstip is the cause. If it does shut down still, > > > more than likely you have a faulty fan on your CPU or video card and > > > if those overheat, most computers will shut the system down to prevent > damage. > > > > > > Eric > > > > > > On Fri, Jun 26, 2009 at 11:50 AM, Raymond Wetzel < > > > sevenspringss@...> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Does anyone (Lenny, \\Steve//) know if there is a circuit overload > > (fuse?) > > > > inside of computers that may get to be faulty, or can a > > overload-protection > > > > power strip go bad to the point of shutting itself off for no > reason? > > I've > > > > been trying to reply to recent posts, some which I've been > > > > successful > > with > > > > and some that I had to re-write, due to 'puter malfunction. I've > > > > been unsuccessful in replying to one of Jasmine's messages from > > > > yesterday > > morning > > > > and just now Joellen's most recent message. I will be partly into > > writing a > > > > reply, when the screen goes black for about 3 seconds as though > > > > someone pulled the plug, then starts re-booting itself. Naturally > > > > all is lost > > at > > > > that time. This is a new one that's it's added to its bag of > > > > tricks, > > but one > > > > that's getting increasingly more frequent. Is there a fix I can > > > > do, > > like > > > > replacing a circuit breaker, or does this machine need the > > > > permanent > > fix > > > > (trash)? Thanks guys, Ray > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 41489	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 6/26/2009
Subject: Re: Big Poppa's Corys (was: 55 gallon community tank)

Not if they're both males... but they could probably get married in some States. ;-) Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of biG poppa Sent: Friday, June 26, 2009 5:05 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] 55 gallon community tank Question can a albino Cory and a pepper Cory mate sense i have a male albino and a male pepper Cory. --- On Fri, 6/26/09, Amber Berglund <amber@...> wrote: From: Amber Berglund <amber@...> Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] 55 gallon community tank To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Date: Friday, June 26, 2009, 5:35 PM On a side note, I think I have stimulated my cory's into spawning mode with all the cleaning's I've done the last couple of days, they got 2 PWC's yesterday (with gravel vac), and today their filter was cleaned so therefor the tank was refilled afterwards, lots of fresh water going in this week ;) I have a lot of dancing going on between them ;) Amber

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 41490	From: biG poppa	Date: 6/26/2009
Subject: Re: Big Poppa's Corys (was: 55 gallon community tank)

lmao Lenny its a female albino and a male pepper --- On Fri, 6/26/09, Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@...> wrote: From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@...> Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Big Poppa's Corys (was: 55 gallon community tank) To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Date: Friday, June 26, 2009, 7:11 PM Not if they're both males... but they could probably get married in some States. ;-) Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com [mailto:AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com] On Behalf Of biG poppa Sent: Friday, June 26, 2009 5:05 PM To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] 55 gallon community tank Question can a albino Cory and a pepper Cory mate sense i have a male albino and a male pepper Cory. --- On Fri, 6/26/09, Amber Berglund <amber@rose-fields. com> wrote: From: Amber Berglund <amber@rose-fields. com> Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] 55 gallon community tank To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com Date: Friday, June 26, 2009, 5:35 PM On a side note, I think I have stimulated my cory's into spawning mode with all the cleaning's I've done the last couple of days, they got 2 PWC's yesterday (with gravel vac), and today their filter was cleaned so therefor the tank was refilled afterwards, lots of fresh water going in this week ;) I have a lot of dancing going on between them ;) Amber [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 41491	From: Eric Roberts	Date: 6/26/2009
Subject: Re: O/T - PC Malfunctions

External drive are awesome. You can either buy one all put together or you can get your own drive and put it in an enclosure. The enclosures cost around $50-60 and hard drives are pretty cheap. You can get a terrabyte drive for under $200 now...that's a lot of space. Both usually come with an option where you can set up what stuff you want to back up and it will regularly back it up plus they also have a button on the enclosure and all you have to do is push it and it initiates a back up. Pretty cool stuff. I have several PC's here at home networked together and being that I am the IT pro, I am also the maintenance/tech support guy. They do require about as much maintentnce as a fish tank hehehe. It's amazing just how much dust can accumulate in your computer. The damage that is does is mostly thermal issues. Think of dust as a big blanket covering your components and helping them to stay a lot warmer than they should. A good cleaning every month or so is warranted...especially if you live in a dusty house. Heat issues with todays machines are a big issue. As the computer consumes more and more power from the various components, it generated more and more heat. Heat and electronics do not mix very well. A machine will actually become slower than normal as it heats up. THe very first time they breached the 1 gig barrier (for CPU's), they actually took an old 486 (pre pentium) and put it in a freeze and overclocked it. The colder your cpu (and other compnents that have thier own CPU's like graphics cards) is the more efficient it is. If you can get it to -30, you can actually double the speed of the cpu. Just to give you an idea of the effect of heat. Most computers built inthe past 5 or 6 years will automatically shut down if they get too hot. Older one would actually burn out chips and even catch on fire (both from the heat burning the chip up and the copius amounts of dust...dust is highly flammable...if you are the outdoorsy type...the dust and lint from your dryer makes a great firestarter and is the cause of many housefires as the lint clogs up the air outtake). That is just from the hardware side. On the software side...keeping your computer virus and ad/spyware free is a must. These programs rob your computer of processing power and slow what would be a lightning fast machine to a crawl. Anyone intereested in learning how to maintain your computer yourself, check out some of the overclocking sites and there are also some DIY sites out there. The more you lerarn about how your computer works, the more you will understand how to fix things and alleviate problems. Knowledge is power :-D I run into problems that are simple as making sure sll the cards and cables are tightly in place. My fiance's computer will just fail every once in a while and none of the drives will get recognized. I go in and make sure all is secure and *poof* it is working fine. There are a lot of very simple step that can be taken to troubleshoot if you know what can cause computer failure. On Fri, Jun 26, 2009 at 3:34 PM, Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@... > wrote: > > > Ray, > > I tend to agree with Eric. While I don't have a ton of experience at > repairing computer hardware, I do belong to a few computer related yahoo > groups and read about other people's problems all the time, in order to > keep > my computers from getting to that point. Just like our fish tanks, > computers need a certain amount of maintenance to keep them running right. > By doing regular maintenance, they'll last a LOT longer. This includes > dusting/cleaning the hardware (vents, fans, everything inside of the > computer CPU case, etc). Of course, it has to be done right to avoid static > shock issues but it's easy to learn and most computers are easy to crack > open, especially the upright CPU's. Usually just one or two thumb screws > and the entire side panel slides off. Folks are usually amazed at how much > dust buildup happens inside their computers. That's one of the big reasons > for failure. > > Also running the obvious anti-malware programs (anti-virus, anti-spyware, > etc.) and doing updates, as needed to keep the software running right. > > Last, but certainly not least, back-up, back-up, back-up... so when all > your > other measures fail, you don't lose all your files. I do a hard disk image > onto an external hard drive about once a week and then I also have Mozy > Online backup https://mozy.com/?code=SY4ZSI to constantly keep "My > Documents" folder backed up and my Outlook PST files. Mozy for home use, is > free for up to 2GB of storage and unlimited storage is under $5.00 a month. > It's a simple program to use and Mozy or Carbonite are the two largest > online services. I like Mozy, mainly because I was involved in the Beta > testing of it but also because it gives users the 2GB of service for free > with no time period. For many folks, this is sufficient but not for folks > that have tons of music, movies, BIG Outlook PST files, etc. I still use > the free Mozy on a couple of my computers but have the paid unlimited > version on my main computer. > > I also use the free Macrium Reflect program for imaging (cloning) my hard > drive so in the event of total hard drive failure, I still have my ENTIRE > computer's hard drive cloned and then I would just have to boot up off the > external drive and then use Mozy to back up the past weeks files since I > last did an imaging and I'm right back to normal. If you don't do a ton of > saving on your computer, you could just do the imaging once a month and > rely > on Mozy to back up the rest. > > Once you see how easy it is to do basic stuff on a computer's interior, > your > next thing will be adding some more RAM memory to your computer. You can > usually get new RAM memory sticks for under $25.00 and double your > computer's speed rather easily... especially on older computers. Even > adding 128KB of ram to an old 256KB computer makes it so much better. > Adding 256KB more will make it seem like a supersonic jet. I've taken old > computers from other people and a lot of times, they'll have the same > Memory > Sticks as I might need in one of my old computers and I'm able to double my > RAM at no cost. > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://goldlenny.blogspot.com/> > (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right > side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) > > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> [mailto: > AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On > Behalf Of Eric Roberts > Sent: Friday, June 26, 2009 3:03 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: O/T - PC Malfunctions > > YEah...that's what it sounds like...especially if you fire something up > that > either uses a lot of processor is is very graphical. The bearings in fans > go bad. They are pretty easy to replace as they are usually situated on top > of heat sinks. If you don;t have any computer stores near you, there are a > ton of shops online that specialize in cooling fans and other cooling > supplies. I used to do a lot of overclocking, which causes cpu's and > graphic cards to run hotter than normal so I was always beefing up my > cooling...even cutting a couple of holes on the top of my case and putting > in some fans that were the same width as my case. Sounded like a jet > engine, but it kept the case cool hehehe. > > Eric > > On Fri, Jun 26, 2009 at 2:59 PM, Raymond Wetzel < > sevenspringss@... <sevenspringss%40wmconnect.com> > > wrote: > > > > > > > Thank you for your advice, Eric. I was told something similar about a > > possible faulty fan by ole Bill, so your post certainly backs this up. > > Makes sense as it generally happens after about two hours of operation > > -- giving the machine plenty of time to heat up if the fan isn't > > operating. I'll check that out and check out the powerstrip as well. > > Thanks again, Ray > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com><AquaticLife% > 40yahoogroups.com>, > > Eric Roberts <woad@...> wrote: > > > > > > No there is no fuse in a computer...you surge protector can go bad > > causing > > > it to trip off at much lighter loads than normal. Try plugging the > > computer > > > directly into the wall and see if it shuts down on its own. if it > > > doesn't then the powerstip is the cause. If it does shut down still, > > > more than likely you have a faulty fan on your CPU or video card and > > > if those overheat, most computers will shut the system down to prevent > damage. > > > > > > Eric > > > > > > On Fri, Jun 26, 2009 at 11:50 AM, Raymond Wetzel < > > > sevenspringss@...> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Does anyone (Lenny, \\Steve//) know if there is a circuit overload > > (fuse?) > > > > inside of computers that may get to be faulty, or can a > > overload-protection > > > > power strip go bad to the point of shutting itself off for no reason? > > I've > > > > been trying to reply to recent posts, some which I've been > > > > successful > > with > > > > and some that I had to re-write, due to 'puter malfunction. I've > > > > been unsuccessful in replying to one of Jasmine's messages from > > > > yesterday > > morning > > > > and just now Joellen's most recent message. I will be partly into > > writing a > > > > reply, when the screen goes black for about 3 seconds as though > > > > someone pulled the plug, then starts re-booting itself. Naturally > > > > all is lost > > at > > > > that time. This is a new one that's it's added to its bag of > > > > tricks, > > but one > > > > that's getting increasingly more frequent. Is there a fix I can > > > > do, > > like > > > > replacing a circuit breaker, or does this machine need the > > > > permanent > > fix > > > > (trash)? Thanks guys, Ray > > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 41492	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 6/26/2009
Subject: Re: O/T - PC Malfunctions

Ray, Most likely the problem is heat. There are a number of fans in your computer, usually a minimum of three, though some only have two. With one serving as a case/cpu fan. To check to see if the problem may be heat, an easy check, the power supply has a fan, located near the plug to the wall. Just reach your hand around there, and feel the airflow. No airflow means a new power supply is in order (probably around $35 plus installation if you do not install it yourself, maybe a 15 minute job). Warm air is normal, and hot air is a fan problem somewhere in the computer, case or cpu. You may open the case, and still see the fans spinning. The problem is that they may not be spinning fast enough. As has been mentioned, a good cleaning may be all you need. Dust is a good thermal insulator. They do make special vacuums just for computers, but don't worry about that (I often use a shop vac at work <g>). All you need is a hose attachment with a soft brush and you can quickly clean the innards. Pay attention that you do not knock anything out of position, and pay special attention to the intake grills in the front--best cleaned from the outside of the machine. I'd not worry about the capacitor problem mentioned by Sam. This is rarely seen, and I've not seen a case in years. If your machine is older than 4-5 years, then you may wish to investigate purchasing a new machine as a replacement. While most machines can have their current problem fixed, it is generally only a matter of a short period of time before another problem occurs, then another. By the end of a year or so, you may have spent the equivalent of a new machine, and still have an old machine to deal with. If you can cure the issue with a simple vacuum, then do so, and wait until Windows 7 is released. If it does not cure the problem, start shopping around. The low end machines would probably be suitable for your usage, but I would beef them up a bit (adding to the cost) by getting at least 2GB of RAM, and maybe a larger HDD for image and article storage, and make sure you have a DVD burner that will also burn CD's. While this increases the price of the machine, it should not increase it by that much. You can probably use your current monitor, but will need to replace your mouse and keyboard, since most machines now do not have the PS/2 ports available now. But, you know, that LCD monitor looks just so cool. You'll need to put aside a couple of batches of angel fry for that, though <g>. \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Raymond Wetzel Sent: Friday, June 26, 2009 12:51 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: O/T - PC Malfunctions Does anyone (Lenny, \\Steve//) know if there is a circuit overload (fuse?) inside of computers that may get to be faulty, or can a overload-protection power strip go bad to the point of shutting itself off for no reason? I've been trying to reply to recent posts, some which I've been successful with and some that I had to re-write, due to 'puter malfunction. I've been unsuccessful in replying to one of Jasmine's messages from yesterday morning and just now Joellen's most recent message. I will be partly into writing a reply, when the screen goes black for about 3 seconds as though someone pulled the plug, then starts re-booting itself. Naturally all is lost at that time. This is a new one that's it's added to its bag of tricks, but one that's getting increasingly more frequent. Is there a fix I can do, like replacing a circuit breaker, or does this machine need the permanent fix (trash)? Thanks guys, Ray

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 41493	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 6/26/2009
Subject: Re: Big Poppa's Corys (was: 55 gallon community tank)

Do you know the species of the Albino Cory? Albino is simply a lack of pigmentation so there can be albino variants of nearly any species, probably all species. There is always the possibility of two species within the same Genus and sometimes even in the same Family cross breeding but the further up the line it goes, the less likely the chance. For examples of inter-Family breeding, Goldfish and Koi can interbreed, as well as Killer Whales and Bottle-nosed Dolphins... called a Wolphin. If the Albino is an Albino Pepper Corydoras, they would certainly be able to breed as they would be the same species with one of them having no pigmentation and the other having normal pigmentation. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of biG poppa Sent: Friday, June 26, 2009 6:16 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Big Poppa's Corys (was: 55 gallon community tank) lmao Lenny its a female albino and a male pepper --- On Fri, 6/26/09, Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@...> wrote: From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@...> Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Big Poppa's Corys (was: 55 gallon community tank) To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Date: Friday, June 26, 2009, 7:11 PM Not if they're both males... but they could probably get married in some States. ;-) Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com [mailto:AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com] On Behalf Of biG poppa Sent: Friday, June 26, 2009 5:05 PM To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] 55 gallon community tank Question can a albino Cory and a pepper Cory mate sense i have a male albino and a male pepper Cory. --- On Fri, 6/26/09, Amber Berglund <amber@rose-fields. com> wrote: From: Amber Berglund <amber@rose-fields. com> Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] 55 gallon community tank To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com Date: Friday, June 26, 2009, 5:35 PM On a side note, I think I have stimulated my cory's into spawning mode with all the cleaning's I've done the last couple of days, they got 2 PWC's yesterday (with gravel vac), and today their filter was cleaned so therefor the tank was refilled afterwards, lots of fresh water going in this week ;) I have a lot of dancing going on between them ;) Amber

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 41494	From: Eric Roberts	Date: 6/26/2009
Subject: Re: O/T - PC Malfunctions

I had a graphics card go when the capacitors blew once(never get an EVGA card again). Scared the heck out of my daughter...she thought someone was shooting at her *weg*. My expereince with capacitors is that they usually go with a bang. If you have a large enough one, it can actually cause physical damage. Back in high school, we purposefuly did that to show what could happen. THe teacher actually cracked the lens on the overhead projector. Eric On Fri, Jun 26, 2009 at 5:00 PM, Sam Palermo <skywavebe@...>wrote: > > > Hello Ray; > I have no back ground info on your computer such as age, type of > motherboard, > Processor type but in some cases this very same problem is observed when > capacitors go bad on the motherboard. While thermal overload and power > supply problems can also be a problem, it has been my experience in 134 > computer builds and who knows how many repairs that people do not seem to > know or realize that these things happen. An experienced computer person > would spot these right away. If you look into your computer and see > capacitors > that are expanded and or have yellow stuff coming from the top area then > this > would be the case. This would necessitate a new motherboard. The good news > is that your information would be still on you hard drive but you might > have to > put another drive in a computer to boot to the place where you could > plug this > one in to get to the information. Just the offer of one more possibility. > > Best regards, > > Sam Palermo, Chief Engineer > Skywave Broadcast Engineering, Chicago > (708)334-2260 > Past Teac/Tascam Service Technician still doing repairs. > > Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > > > > > > One other thing Ray. Besides vacuuming the vents and fans, if it is an > > overheating problem causing your computer shut-down issues. Cracking open > > the side of the case a little will also help by creating some thermal > > circulation (you know how hot air rises which would then suck in > > cooler air > > into the case) to aid in cooling off the inside of the case. If the fans > > aren't working well or at all, then opening the case completely and > > aiming a > > small fan at the inside of the case will also help keep it cooler. Then > > shutting down all non-essential programs and processes will further > > help it > > to run cooler until you can repair the fan(s). > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com<http://goldlenny.blogspot.com/>< > http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://goldlenny.blogspot.com/>> > > (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right > > side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com <AquaticLife%2540yahoogroups.com>> > > > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com <AquaticLife%2540yahoogroups.com>>] > On > > Behalf Of Eric Roberts > > Sent: Friday, June 26, 2009 3:03 PM > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto: > AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com <AquaticLife%2540yahoogroups.com>> > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: O/T - PC Malfunctions > > > > YEah...that's what it sounds like...especially if you fire something > > up that > > either uses a lot of processor is is very graphical. The bearings in fans > > go bad. They are pretty easy to replace as they are usually situated > > on top > > of heat sinks. If you don;t have any computer stores near you, there are > a > > ton of shops online that specialize in cooling fans and other cooling > > supplies. I used to do a lot of overclocking, which causes cpu's and > > graphic cards to run hotter than normal so I was always beefing up my > > cooling...even cutting a couple of holes on the top of my case and > putting > > in some fans that were the same width as my case. Sounded like a jet > > engine, but it kept the case cool hehehe. > > > > Eric > > > > On Fri, Jun 26, 2009 at 2:59 PM, Raymond Wetzel > > <sevenspringss@... <sevenspringss%40wmconnect.com> <mailto: > sevenspringss%40wmconnect.com <sevenspringss%2540wmconnect.com>> > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > Thank you for your advice, Eric. I was told something similar about a > > > possible faulty fan by ole Bill, so your post certainly backs this up. > > > Makes sense as it generally happens after about two hours of operation > > > -- giving the machine plenty of time to heat up if the fan isn't > > > operating. I'll check that out and check out the powerstrip as well. > > > Thanks again, Ray > > > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com <AquaticLife%2540yahoogroups.com>> > <AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>, > > > > Eric Roberts <woad@...> wrote: > > > > > > > > No there is no fuse in a computer...you surge protector can go bad > > > causing > > > > it to trip off at much lighter loads than normal. Try plugging the > > > computer > > > > directly into the wall and see if it shuts down on its own. if it > > > > doesn't then the powerstip is the cause. If it does shut down still, > > > > more than likely you have a faulty fan on your CPU or video card and > > > > if those overheat, most computers will shut the system down to > prevent > > damage. > > > > > > > > Eric > > > > > > > > On Fri, Jun 26, 2009 at 11:50 AM, Raymond Wetzel < > > > > sevenspringss@...> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Does anyone (Lenny, \\Steve//) know if there is a circuit overload > > > (fuse?) > > > > > inside of computers that may get to be faulty, or can a > > > overload-protection > > > > > power strip go bad to the point of shutting itself off for no > > reason? > > > I've > > > > > been trying to reply to recent posts, some which I've been > > > > > successful > > > with > > > > > and some that I had to re-write, due to 'puter malfunction. I've > > > > > been unsuccessful in replying to one of Jasmine's messages from > > > > > yesterday > > > morning > > > > > and just now Joellen's most recent message. I will be partly into > > > writing a > > > > > reply, when the screen goes black for about 3 seconds as though > > > > > someone pulled the plug, then starts re-booting itself. Naturally > > > > > all is lost > > > at > > > > > that time. This is a new one that's it's added to its bag of > > > > > tricks, > > > but one > > > > > that's getting increasingly more frequent. Is there a fix I can > > > > > do, > > > like > > > > > replacing a circuit breaker, or does this machine need the > > > > > permanent > > > fix > > > > > (trash)? Thanks guys, Ray > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 41495	From: Donna Ransome	Date: 6/26/2009
Subject: Re: 55 gallon community tank

I think the keys and maybe even the edges of Florida have coral as their bedrock. So when there is construction in that area, they excavate coral "rock". My husband's uncle built a house down there and his career was construction (worked on the Lincoln Tunnel in NYC). They dig until they hit coral and use it as their footers. _____ From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Lenny V. aka GoldLenny Sent: Friday, June 26, 2009 12:54 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] 55 gallon community tank OOHHHH.. so now we have a conspiracy of reef destroyers. LOL I wonder where they get the "crushed coral" that is sold? I see that the CaribSea brand is called Florida Crushed Coral. With the protection that most places give to their coral reefs, you would think that selling crushed coral would be a no-no. Florida even has a section of their Dept. Of Environmental Protection website talking about saving their reefs. http://www.dep. <http://www.dep.state.fl.us/coastal/programs/coral/maritime.htm> state.fl.us/coastal/programs/coral/maritime.htm Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Amber Berglund Sent: Thursday, June 25, 2009 11:17 PM To: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] 55 gallon community tank I didn't destroy anything, it was given to me by the previous owner of the 125 gallon tank, she was going to throw it away so I said i would take it off of her hands, figured it may come in handy some day ;) Amber Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > > > Calcium would affect GH. > > I'm not going to ask which reef you destroyed for that garbage can > full of crushed coral.... and hopefully the reef-huggers aren't > reading this thread. > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> blogspot.com> (Links to any articles referenced in > above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels > and also under Archives by Year, Month) > > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > [mailto:AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On Behalf Of Amber Berglund > Sent: Thursday, June 25, 2009 10:58 PM > To: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] 55 gallon community tank > > I have a garbage can full of crushed coral ;) LOL. > That's going to last me awhile for now, and it's free. > I will figure out something different when I run low on the crushed > coral ;) > > Also no one answered my question about calcium chloride, what does it > affect? GH or KH? I bought it for when I have the snails, wanted to > have calcium on hand. > > Amber > > Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > > > > > > OK. If the crushed coral is raising it up from the 33ppm range to > > the 75ppm range, then you are probably going to be OK. > > > > Crushed coral can/should raise both since crushed coral is supposed > > to be calcium carbonate also. > > > > Here's a snip from my calculations post in the Ponds-Koi forum. Of > > course, this snip is dealing with something like Oyster Flour which > > is immediately dissolvable in the water column, not something you > > have to wait to break down like crushed coral. The Carbonate could > > be dissolving so slowly that your tank's ecology is using it up > > faster or as fast as it is being released. > > > > > > "...Two teaspoons (about 4 grams) of calcium carbonate > > > > (CaCO3) per 50 liters of water will increase both KH and GH by 4 > > > > degrees..." from http://www.thekrib. <http://www.thekrib.com/Plants/CO2/khgh.html> com/Plants/CO2/khgh.html > <http://www.thekrib. <http://www.thekrib.com/Plants/CO2/khgh.html> com/Plants/CO2/khgh.html> > > <http://www.thekrib. <http://www.thekrib.com/Plants/CO2/khgh.html> com/Plants/CO2/khgh.html > <http://www.thekrib. <http://www.thekrib.com/Plants/CO2/khgh.html> com/Plants/CO2/khgh.html>> and since > > > > raising it 4 degrees is kind of where we want to raise it since > > > > it has > > > > 1 degree already, it's just a matter of doing a little more math. > > > > If you are going to be using/dosing your tank from now on, you might > > want to price how much 5 lbs. of crushed coral costs and compare it > > to Oyster Flour. > > My initial thoughts are that Oyster shells are a LOT cheaper than > coral... > > so their ground or crushed by-products should also be comparably priced. > > > > A quick search found Oyster Shell Flour on one site for $19.95 for a > > 25 lb. > > bag. > > > http://www.mycopath <http://www.mycopath.com/index.php?main_page=product_info&products_id=2> .com/index.php?main_page=product_info&products_id=2 > <http://www.mycopath <http://www.mycopath.com/index.php?main_page=product_info&products_id=> .com/index.php?main_page=product_info&products_id= > 2> > > 5 > > > <http://www.mycopath <http://www.mycopath.com/index.php?main_page=product_info&products_id=> .com/index.php?main_page=product_info&products_id= > <http://www.mycopath <http://www.mycopath.com/index.php?main_page=product_info&products_id=> .com/index.php?main_page=product_info&products_id= > > > > 25> > > > > And a 40 lb. bag of CaribSea Crushed Coral for a similar price of > > $19.99 > > > http://www.bigalson <http://www.bigalsonline.com/BigAlsUS/ctl3684/cp18315/si1379469/cl0/car> line.com/BigAlsUS/ctl3684/cp18315/si1379469/cl0/car > <http://www.bigalson <http://www.bigalsonline.com/BigAlsUS/ctl3684/cp18315/si1379469/cl0/ca> line.com/BigAlsUS/ctl3684/cp18315/si1379469/cl0/ca > r> > > ibseac > > > <http://www.bigalson <http://www.bigalsonline.com/BigAlsUS/ctl3684/cp18315/si1379469/cl0/ca> line.com/BigAlsUS/ctl3684/cp18315/si1379469/cl0/ca > <http://www.bigalson <http://www.bigalsonline.com/BigAlsUS/ctl3684/cp18315/si1379469/cl0/ca> line.com/BigAlsUS/ctl3684/cp18315/si1379469/cl0/ca > > > > ribseac> > > rushedcoral40lbs > > > > I guess my theory that Oyster Shells should be cheaper isn't holding > up... > > of course, that site with the Oyster Shell Flour may be way overpriced. > > > > Oh yeah... AND THE MORAL TO THIS STORY: Oysters are just butt-ugly > > miniature coral reefs. ;-) > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> blogspot.com> > > <http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> blogspot.com>> > (Links to any articles referenced in > > above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under > > Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > [mailto:AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On Behalf Of Amber Berglund > > Sent: Thursday, June 25, 2009 9:58 PM > > To: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] 55 gallon community tank > > > > My GH doesn't seem that low though, especially with the coral chunks > > and shells in the tank... or am I wrong? 4 drops is what the test > > was earlier for GH, before I added some of the crushed coral (which > > is the consistency of slightly larger than sand you would find on the beach). > > Will crushed coral only raise GH or will it raise both KH and GH? > > > > Amber > > > > Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > > > > > > > > > I actually calculated the proper dosing of Oyster Flour quite a > > > while back in one of the Pond Forums that I participate in. If > > > Amber decides to go that route, I'll dig up my old post and > > > re-post it here or put it on my blog. > > > > > > Actually, a search of that group found the thread easy enough. > > > Lately, I don't have much confidence in Yahoo Group's searching > > > but it worked this time. Here's the thread. Read all the way > > > through since I forgot to carry a one in one of my earlier > > > computations but caught it right away and corrected it in my next post. > > > > > > Ol' Bill, you would like the Bill in that forum. He's a character > > > too (yeah I know... I'm the pot calling the kettle black), as > > > you'll see in the thread. I'm not sure what happened to the Bill > > > in that > forum. > > > He hasn't replied in a while. I hope he's OK. > > > > > > http://groups. <http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Ponds-Koi/message/29647> yahoo.com/group/Ponds-Koi/message/29647 > <http://groups. <http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Ponds-Koi/message/29647> yahoo.com/group/Ponds-Koi/message/29647> > > <http://groups. <http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Ponds-Koi/message/29647> yahoo.com/group/Ponds-Koi/message/29647 > <http://groups. <http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Ponds-Koi/message/29647> yahoo.com/group/Ponds-Koi/message/29647>> > > > <http://groups. <http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Ponds-Koi/message/29647> yahoo.com/group/Ponds-Koi/message/29647 > <http://groups. <http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Ponds-Koi/message/29647> yahoo.com/group/Ponds-Koi/message/29647> > > <http://groups. <http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Ponds-Koi/message/29647> yahoo.com/group/Ponds-Koi/message/29647 > <http://groups. <http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Ponds-Koi/message/29647> yahoo.com/group/Ponds-Koi/message/29647>>> > > > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> blogspot.com> > > <http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> blogspot.com>> > > > <http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> blogspot.com>>> > > (Links to any articles referenced in > > > above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under > > > Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > From: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > [mailto:AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On Behalf Of bill 1433 > > > Sent: Thursday, June 25, 2009 6:06 PM > > > To: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] 55 gallon community tank > > > > > > Amber, > > > > > > I'm getting here that you want to increase GH and KH? > > > > > > See if you can locate a product called Oyster Flour. You can most > > > likely find it at Feed and Grain Stores or Landscaping shops. Take > > > your time and add very slowly to your water and check it each day > > > before adding more. I used one level teaspoon at a time each day > > > until I started to see change then only 1/2 teaspoon until I got > > > exactly > > where I wanted to be. > > > > > > Bill > > > > > > --- On Thu, 6/25/09, Amber Berglund <amber@rose-fields. <mailto:amber%40rose-fields.com> com > <mailto:amber%40rose-fields.com> > > <mailto:amber%40rose-fields.com> > > > <mailto:amber%40rose-fields.com>> wrote: > > > > > > > From: Amber Berglund <amber@rose-fields. <mailto:amber%40rose-fields.com> com > <mailto:amber%40rose-fields.com> > > <mailto:amber%40rose-fields.com> > > > <mailto:amber%40rose-fields.com>> > > > > Subject: [AquaticLife] 55 gallon community tank > > > > To: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > Date: Thursday, June 25, 2009, 6:55 PM I tested my 55 gallon > > > > community tank today to see how the KH and GH are since I keep > > > > chunks of coral in the tank, well apparently the coral isn't > > > > breaking down fast enough so there's only 4 drop for GH > > > > (3-6=50-100ppm), and only 1 drop of KH still, same as my tap water. > > > > I added a couple handfulls of crushed coral to the tank to see > > > > if that will help the KH or GH at all. I have calcium that I can > > > > add to the tank which has calcium chloride listed as the > > > > ingredient, what will that do to the water parameters? > > > > oh and my pH is 6 still, always has been. > > > > So if I add enough crushed coral to the tank to keep my > > > > buffering capacity up then I should theoretically slowly end up > > > > with a pH closer to 6.8 like my baseline tapwater? Will a couple > > > > handfulls be enough or should I add more? I added it into the > > > > gravel for now as I have nothing to bag it up with and put it > > > > into the filter > itself. > > > > > > > > Amber [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 41496	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 6/26/2009
Subject: Re: Complete 55g Reef System for Sale

And, local pick-up would be where? \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of mihamlett Sent: Friday, June 26, 2009 9:16 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Complete 55g Reef System for Sale Asking: $1000 OBO Up for sale is a complete 55 gallon Reef tank system. Including all the lighting, filters and other components you may need. I recently dismantled this system because I was moving and needed to downsize tanks. All components are working and in good condition. No livestock included. You must pick up, but I'll be glad to help you load. Trying to sell as a complete package first then I might decide to part it out. 1. 55G All Glass Aquarium w/ built in overflow box in the center rear of the tank. Overflow box has 1" and 3/4" drain. I built up a durso (sp?) pipe system in the overflow to quiet the noise. Two 1" Returns at the top rear corners of the tank. There is some coraline algae growth on the rear of the tank, the back has also been painted black. The tank is in good condition, no leaks. Few minor small scratches on front glass, don't really notice it when water is in the tank. 2. Stand for 55G Tank open back w/ 20 Gallon long tank as sump (Sump has no dividers inside.) 3. Mag 5 Return Pump 4. Custom Built Canopy w/ Two 175w Metal Halides and Two 46.5" VHO Bulbs and all reflectors. Canopy custom built to keep bulbs about 12" or so off the water. 5. Metal halide bulbs used for about 4 years (14,000K, don't remember brand). 175 W x 2 bulbs 6. Metal halide bulbs new, used for less than 24 hrs (10,000K but didn't like the color). 175W x 2 bulbs 7. VHO Bulbs are 20,000 Actinics, are about 4 years old but still going strong. 8. Euro-Reef RS80 Protein Skimmer w/ Pump 9. 1/4 HP Via Aqua Chiller 10. 2 Icecap 440 Ballasts (Metal Halide-175w), 1 Icecap 660 Ballast (Flourescent), 2 Icecap heatsinks, all custom mounted to board and wiring harness to the canopy that is sufficiently long enough to keep the ballasts away from the tank 11. 1 x WON Pro-Heat IC Heater 100W 11in 12. UV Sterilizer (not sure of brand right now) 13. SCWD Wavemaker (switching current, 3/4in) 14. AquaController Jr (Non backlit) + DC8 Aquarium Controller. Works great! small scratch on display. One of the DC8 outlets does not switch, always on. Standard pH + Temperature Probes 15. All necessary plumbing to hook all this up (I custom cut PVC pipe for supply and return to sump I also have these items included but they were not hooked up to the tank and are left over parts from upgrades/etc. All work fine. 1. Used CO2 cylinder, should work fine got off craigslist but never got a chance to build co2 system. 2. Several assorted powerheads including one Maxi-Jet 1200, one Rio M820, Rio 600. 3. Coralife Super Protein SKimmer 65 gallon model 4. Reeffanatic pH Calibration fluid 5. ASM Sedra 3500 Pump 6. Assorted unused sea-horse medication (Neo3 , Formalin 16oz, Methylene Blue, Triple Sulpha) 7. Lots of assorted plumbing parts 8. Various filtration media, test kit stuff, food 9. One 10 gallon and 20 gallon long tank. 10. Standard aquarium light for 20L, standard light for 10 gallon, several other lights for refugium 11. Several HOB Filters aquaclear, good for refugiums Pictures can be seen at: http://picasaweb.google.com/mattSales5713/AquariumPictures I'll try to get more up of the different parts soon. Asking $1000 OBO for everything as a set. If I'm not able to sell as a set I might just part out and sell on e-bay. Prefer local pickup. Will not ship tank, stand or canopy. ------------------------------------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the home page. Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com to receive the digest, which includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com for the No E-Mail option where you will still be able to read messages on the group and post replies. Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com to receive individual e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 41497	From: Sam Palermo	Date: 6/26/2009
Subject: Re: O/T - PC Malfunctions

Hi Eric; This may be true in High School demonstrations but in my 36 years in electronics the only two capacitors that have blown up where those in cheap Chinese Computer power supplies. The one I speak of on Motherboards just puff up or they leak some but it is rare for them to explode. There were a couple of hokey puck caps that blew off the wall when at The ESPN transmitter but those were due to a lightening strike not component failure. They were .01 at 600 V mylar. */Best regards, Sam Palermo, Chief Engineer Skywave Broadcast Engineering, Chicago /* *Past Teac/Tascam Service Technician still doing repairs.* Eric Roberts wrote: > > > I had a graphics card go when the capacitors blew once(never get an EVGA > card again). Scared the heck out of my daughter...she thought someone was > shooting at her *weg*. My expereince with capacitors is that they usually > go with a bang. If you have a large enough one, it can actually cause > physical damage. Back in high school, we purposefuly did that to show what > could happen. THe teacher actually cracked the lens on the overhead > projector. > > Eric > > On Fri, Jun 26, 2009 at 5:00 PM, Sam Palermo <skywavebe@... > <mailto:skywavebe%40sbcglobal.net>>wrote: > > > > > > > Hello Ray; > > I have no back ground info on your computer such as age, type of > > motherboard, > > Processor type but in some cases this very same problem is observed when > > capacitors go bad on the motherboard. While thermal overload and power > > supply problems can also be a problem, it has been my experience in 134 > > computer builds and who knows how many repairs that people do not > seem to > > know or realize that these things happen. An experienced computer person > > would spot these right away. If you look into your computer and see > > capacitors > > that are expanded and or have yellow stuff coming from the top area then > > this > > would be the case. This would necessitate a new motherboard. The > good news > > is that your information would be still on you hard drive but you might > > have to > > put another drive in a computer to boot to the place where you could > > plug this > > one in to get to the information. Just the offer of one more > possibility. > > > > Best regards, > > > > Sam Palermo, Chief Engineer > > Skywave Broadcast Engineering, Chicago > > (708)334-2260 > > Past Teac/Tascam Service Technician still doing repairs. > > > > Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > > > > > > > > > One other thing Ray. Besides vacuuming the vents and fans, if it is an > > > overheating problem causing your computer shut-down issues. > Cracking open > > > the side of the case a little will also help by creating some thermal > > > circulation (you know how hot air rises which would then suck in > > > cooler air > > > into the case) to aid in cooling off the inside of the case. If > the fans > > > aren't working well or at all, then opening the case completely and > > > aiming a > > > small fan at the inside of the case will also help keep it cooler. > Then > > > shutting down all non-essential programs and processes will further > > > help it > > > to run cooler until you can repair the fan(s). > > > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com><http://goldlenny.blogspot.com/ > <http://goldlenny.blogspot.com/>>< > > http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://goldlenny.blogspot.com/ <http://goldlenny.blogspot.com/>>> > > > (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the > right > > > side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, > Month) > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com > <AquaticLife%2540yahoogroups.com>> > > > > > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com > <AquaticLife%2540yahoogroups.com>>] > > On > > > Behalf Of Eric Roberts > > > Sent: Friday, June 26, 2009 3:03 PM > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto: > > AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com <AquaticLife%2540yahoogroups.com>> > > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: O/T - PC Malfunctions > > > > > > YEah...that's what it sounds like...especially if you fire something > > > up that > > > either uses a lot of processor is is very graphical. The bearings > in fans > > > go bad. They are pretty easy to replace as they are usually situated > > > on top > > > of heat sinks. If you don;t have any computer stores near you, > there are > > a > > > ton of shops online that specialize in cooling fans and other cooling > > > supplies. I used to do a lot of overclocking, which causes cpu's and > > > graphic cards to run hotter than normal so I was always beefing up my > > > cooling...even cutting a couple of holes on the top of my case and > > putting > > > in some fans that were the same width as my case. Sounded like a jet > > > engine, but it kept the case cool hehehe. > > > > > > Eric > > > > > > On Fri, Jun 26, 2009 at 2:59 PM, Raymond Wetzel > > > <sevenspringss@... > <mailto:sevenspringss%40wmconnect.com> <sevenspringss%40wmconnect.com> > <mailto: > > sevenspringss%40wmconnect.com <sevenspringss%2540wmconnect.com>> > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Thank you for your advice, Eric. I was told something similar > about a > > > > possible faulty fan by ole Bill, so your post certainly backs > this up. > > > > Makes sense as it generally happens after about two hours of > operation > > > > -- giving the machine plenty of time to heat up if the fan isn't > > > > operating. I'll check that out and check out the powerstrip as well. > > > > Thanks again, Ray > > > > > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com > <AquaticLife%2540yahoogroups.com>> > > <AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>, > > > > > > Eric Roberts <woad@...> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > No there is no fuse in a computer...you surge protector can go bad > > > > causing > > > > > it to trip off at much lighter loads than normal. Try plugging the > > > > computer > > > > > directly into the wall and see if it shuts down on its own. if it > > > > > doesn't then the powerstip is the cause. If it does shut down > still, > > > > > more than likely you have a faulty fan on your CPU or video > card and > > > > > if those overheat, most computers will shut the system down to > > prevent > > > damage. > > > > > > > > > > Eric > > > > > > > > > > On Fri, Jun 26, 2009 at 11:50 AM, Raymond Wetzel < > > > > > sevenspringss@...> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Does anyone (Lenny, \\Steve//) know if there is a circuit > overload > > > > (fuse?) > > > > > > inside of computers that may get to be faulty, or can a > > > > overload-protection > > > > > > power strip go bad to the point of shutting itself off for no > > > reason? > > > > I've > > > > > > been trying to reply to recent posts, some which I've been > > > > > > successful > > > > with > > > > > > and some that I had to re-write, due to 'puter malfunction. I've > > > > > > been unsuccessful in replying to one of Jasmine's messages from > > > > > > yesterday > > > > morning > > > > > > and just now Joellen's most recent message. I will be partly > into > > > > writing a > > > > > > reply, when the screen goes black for about 3 seconds as though > > > > > > someone pulled the plug, then starts re-booting itself. > Naturally > > > > > > all is lost > > > > at > > > > > > that time. This is a new one that's it's added to its bag of > > > > > > tricks, > > > > but one > > > > > > that's getting increasingly more frequent. Is there a fix I can > > > > > > do, > > > > like > > > > > > replacing a circuit breaker, or does this machine need the > > > > > > permanent > > > > fix > > > > > > (trash)? Thanks guys, Ray > > > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 41498	From: babyhellcat69	Date: 6/26/2009
Subject: Question about snail infested moss

Hi, is there any safe way to rid my java moss of snails?? I really want to put some snail free moss into my big tank without worrying about an infestion of snails. Thanks a million.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 41499	From: Matthew Hamlett	Date: 6/26/2009
Subject: Re: Complete 55g Reef System for Sale

Sorry, forgot to mention that. Raleigh, NC. If I don't get any takers on the complete setup, I'll consider parting it out and shipping smaller stuff. Thanks! On Fri, 26 Jun 2009 21:33 -0400, "Steve Szabo" <steve@...> wrote: And, local pick-up would be where? \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: [1]AquaticLife@yahoogroups. com [mailto:[2]AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of mihamlett Sent: Friday, June 26, 2009 9:16 AM To: [3]AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Complete 55g Reef System for Sale Asking: $1000 OBO Up for sale is a complete 55 gallon Reef tank system. Including all the lighting, filters and other components you may need. I recently dismantled this system because I was moving and needed to downsize tanks. All components are working and in good condition. No livestock included. You must pick up, but I'll be glad to help you load. Trying to sell as a complete package first then I might decide to part it out. 1. 55G All Glass Aquarium w/ built in overflow box in the center rear of the tank. Overflow box has 1" and 3/4" drain. I built up a durso (sp?) pipe system in the overflow to quiet the noise. Two 1" Returns at the top rear corners of the tank. There is some coraline algae growth on the rear of the tank, the back has also been painted black. The tank is in good condition, no leaks. Few minor small scratches on front glass, don't really notice it when water is in the tank. 2. Stand for 55G Tank open back w/ 20 Gallon long tank as sump (Sump has no dividers inside.) 3. Mag 5 Return Pump 4. Custom Built Canopy w/ Two 175w Metal Halides and Two 46.5" VHO Bulbs and all reflectors. Canopy custom built to keep bulbs about 12" or so off the water. 5. Metal halide bulbs used for about 4 years (14,000K, don't remember brand). 175 W x 2 bulbs 6. Metal halide bulbs new, used for less than 24 hrs (10,000K but didn't like the color). 175W x 2 bulbs 7. VHO Bulbs are 20,000 Actinics, are about 4 years old but still going strong. 8. Euro-Reef RS80 Protein Skimmer w/ Pump 9. 1/4 HP Via Aqua Chiller 10. 2 Icecap 440 Ballasts (Metal Halide-175w), 1 Icecap 660 Ballast (Flourescent), 2 Icecap heatsinks, all custom mounted to board and wiring harness to the canopy that is sufficiently long enough to keep the ballasts away from the tank 11. 1 x WON Pro-Heat IC Heater 100W 11in 12. UV Sterilizer (not sure of brand right now) 13. SCWD Wavemaker (switching current, 3/4in) 14. AquaController Jr (Non backlit) + DC8 Aquarium Controller. Works great! small scratch on display. One of the DC8 outlets does not switch, always on. Standard pH + Temperature Probes 15. All necessary plumbing to hook all this up (I custom cut PVC pipe for supply and return to sump I also have these items included but they were not hooked up to the tank and are left over parts from upgrades/etc. All work fine. 1. Used CO2 cylinder, should work fine got off craigslist but never got a chance to build co2 system. 2. Several assorted powerheads including one Maxi-Jet 1200, one Rio M820, Rio 600. 3. Coralife Super Protein SKimmer 65 gallon model 4. Reeffanatic pH Calibration fluid 5. ASM Sedra 3500 Pump 6. Assorted unused sea-horse medication (Neo3 , Formalin 16oz, Methylene Blue, Triple Sulpha) 7. Lots of assorted plumbing parts 8. Various filtration media, test kit stuff, food 9. One 10 gallon and 20 gallon long tank. 10. Standard aquarium light for 20L, standard light for 10 gallon, several other lights for refugium 11. Several HOB Filters aquaclear, good for refugiums Pictures can be seen at: [4]http://picasaweb.google.com/mattSales5713/AquariumPictures I'll try to get more up of the different parts soon. Asking $1000 OBO for everything as a set. If I'm not able to sell as a set I might just part out and sell on e-bay. Prefer local pickup. Will not ship tank, stand or canopy. ------------------------------------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the home page. Or e-mail [5]aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com to receive the digest, which includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email Or email [6]aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com for the No E-Mail option where you will still be able to read messages on the group and post replies. Or email [7]aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com to receive individual e-mails.Yahoo! 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Group: AquaticLife	Message: 41500	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 6/26/2009
Subject: Re: Question about snail infested moss

A SNIP from my blog article "Planted Tank - So You Want A Planted Tank!"... http://goldlenny.blogspot.com/2008/10/planted-tank-so-you-want-planted-tank. html "Another big issue some folks have with planted tanks is that oftentimes the plants will come with some snails or other critters hiding out in the plants roots or leaves. Here are a couple of sites on sanitizing and disinfecting your new live plants. http://www.plantgeek.net/forum/viewtopic.php?t=1445 http://www.fishforums.net/index.php?showtopic=167686" Normally, this should be done when you first get plants, to try and kill off all the snails and critters before you put them in your tank but you can use the same methods before transplanting plants into another tank. Oh yeah... I'll take that "million" in 50's and 100's, in non-consecutive and unmarked bills. ;-) Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of babyhellcat69 Sent: Friday, June 26, 2009 8:03 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Question about snail infested moss Hi, is there any safe way to rid my java moss of snails?? I really want to put some snail free moss into my big tank without worrying about an infestion of snails. Thanks a million.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 41501	From: Jasmine	Date: 6/27/2009
Subject: Re: Angels

Hi Ray As my cold hasn't gotten better and with my partner coming home on Friday saying that one of his bosses is being checked for the dreaded 'swine flu' (and tow of his other co-workers were run up at home and told to get tested too) I was a bit worried because my cold had changed on Thursday to include fever and sneezing. So I saw the doctor today (had to wear my mask) - did you know its hard to cough and bring up flem with a mask on :-( anyway, The doctor doesn't think I have swine flu but due to the increase tightness of my chest and the wheezing - I am on strong steroids (for 5 days) with a course antibiotics. Lets hope that kicks the cold out of the system. Oh, I also have another 5 days off work. Oh, my partner doesn't like me going out side when its cold. He even has the room heater on low all night so I'm not breathing cold air. He is so sweet. Hope your cold clears up soon too. Thank you for the names and titles of the books. I will see if I can local some of the (a bit at a time) and do some extra reading. Jasmine --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Raymond Wetzel" <sevenspringss@...> wrote: > > Hi Jasmine. Tried replying to you yesterday, but the unexpected happened -- don't ask <g>. Hadn't had a chance to get back here since. Sorry to hear your cold took a turn for the worst, but I'm glad to see you have sick day pay coming. Get plenty of rest, there's not much better you can do for it. My cold started with sneezing and a runny nose (for 2 days) along with a fever and a headache that felt more like a hangover (no Lenny, I wasn't drinking, but probably should have). Still a good deal of congestion in my chest now so I can see it's not going away anytime soon, but that's all that remains. Hope you're feeling better soon, and take care of yourself. Best if you don't go out in the cold weather if you can avoid it. > > Yes, I figured the Silver Angel was somewhat younger than the Koi, and even though you may not see very much difference in size, the Angelfish can perceive any differences in size that we may not pick up on, and with it, any less boldness in another fish that it wants to dominate, and so it did. > > It's really uncanny how two same-colored fish of a strain invariably prefer pairing up with the other before they would consider pairing up with one of a different strain. There's no way they can know what color they are; even if they had a mirror they wouldn't recognize the reflection as their own. I can only think that there must be something in their genes associated with color that is hard-wired with the particular strain, possibly some very subtle behavioral traits specific to that strain. The subject would make a most interesting study. > > There are a few fairly current books on Angelfish available, which can be obtained from Lee Finley (Finley Aquatic Books), for one. There are also some good older books and booklets on the subject which you might be able to find on eBay or AquaBid -- such as one written by a now deceased friend of mine (and ex-ACAer) Braz Walker, entitled just "Angelfish". Dr Herbert Axelrod put out an informative booklet, along with Dr C.W. Emmens entitled "Angelfish . . . In Color". They're both at least 35 years old or more, but basics on Angels don't change. A real favorite of mine is "Aquariology" written in 1992 in four parts by various authors (Drs Paul Loiselle, John Gratzek, Janice Matthews, Joanne Norton et al). I have the combined Master Volume, which deals largely with the Science of Fish Health Management but includes an excellent chapter by the recently deceased Joanne Norton (another good friend of many, including myself), which goes into specifics on Angelfish, including the genetics of them and as part of that subject some of the various color strains. I've found it a fascinating read, especially since Dr Norton was reknown for her work in genetics, quite noteably in livebearers. I suspect her chapter must have been included in one of the four original parts of the later Master Volume, making it more reasonable to obtain, but I couldn't tell you which one. Ray > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Jasmine" <adonaikam@> wrote: > > > > Hi Ray > > > > I'm glad you are on the mend. I think mine has had a slight twist today – I started sneezing. All week with I've only had a slight temp, coughing and headaches. Thankfully, it hasn't travelled to my chest. However, starting today – I've been sneezing with nasal congestion and my head is starting to feel heavy. Not a good sign. Thank goodness I still have some paid sick leave up my sleeve. I do hope you kick your completely very soon. > > > > I haven't really looked closely to compare the sizes between the Koi and the Silver – I thought they were about the same size. The Koi is about a year old, I'm not sure how old the Silver is but I would say it would be younger. > > > > What you mentioned about the colour strain of bonding, my fiancé mentioned that as well – he breeds birds and he had noticed that with his birds as well. You know, if makes you wonder how they know what they look like to mate with their own colour strain. We don't put a mirror in the tank so they know what they look like – it must be inbreeded in them. > > > > It has been exciting to get to know the type of Angels we have. We have just been choosing the ones we like the colours of. Is there a book that provides all the different types of tropical angelfish? > > > > Jasmine > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Raymond Wetzel" <sevenspringss@> wrote: > > > > > > Hi Jasmine, Looks like you guys were really talking it up last night at the same time, and after, I was writing my last post. As this was one of the messages being generated while I was composing, I'll start here. Hope your cold is better -- I'm just getting rid of mine, but its been a real rough stretch of days from just before the past weekend, as I was hit with a double-wammy (chest & nasal) cold that left me BEAT. Much better today, but it's still lingering. > > > > > > You might note, by my question on this, that it's no surprise that your Angels WERE bought at different times, as I well knew from your picture of these procedings. What I couldn't know though, was that the Marble (male) was originally paired up with the Silver (female) Angel before adding these two fish with the pre-obtained Koi (female). Your description of these procedings makes perfect sense now, and I'd have to guess that the Silver Angel is somewhat smaller and younger than the Koi. The Koi was a real home-wrecker, huh? LOL. It's no surprise though, in the least, that the Marble was originally paired up with the Silver, with the Koi (large female) overpowering the Silver to succeed at finally pairing up with the Marble. I figured the strength of the Koi (and ONLY this fish's strength) had everything to do with the present bonding situation. > > > > > > A natural selection behavior I've come to learn, of years of observing this species is that -- In an environment of mixed domestic Angelfish color strains in the presence of the wild type (your Silver Angel is considered as close to wild type as possible), the first choice for pair bonding of ANY of the domestic color strains will ALWAYS and INEVITABLY be with the wild form before ANY OTHER color form present - and that includes a possible choice of a same color form. The ONLY reason why your Marble is now paired up with the Koi is that the Silver was overpowered by this stronger (and quite determined) female Koi. Contrary to what some hobbyists prefer to think, Angelfish will select a different mate when the situation is advantageous to them; they do not necessarily pair up for life (unless the hobbyist maintains them as such). > > > > > > This too comes as little surprise, as the second choice of ANY pair bonding in domestic color forms of Angelfish is almost ALWAYS (and just as INEVITABLY) a mate of THE SAME color strain, followed close behind but only after the same color -- a mate having at least some of the genes as does the pairing mate. I would say "ALAWYS" here too, rather than "almost ALWAYS" as I've never observed any other behavior, but there's usually at least one different situation somewhere. Actually, these two last pairings are mutual choices of both partners. In your case, your calico (tri-color, w/black included) Koi has Marble in its genes as Gold Marble is used as one of the fish to develop calico Koi. > > > > > > In the pairing of the wild form in the presence of only domestically developed color strains, ALL of the domestic Angels of opposite sex from the wild form will first be attracted to the wild form before any other choices are considered by them. It will be the choice of the wild form to accept whichever domestic Angel best suits it out of all potential mates. > > > > > > Wish I could fill you in more on the marking (and pimple-like growth) on the Silver Angel. As there is a growth opposite the pigmentation, I'm more inclined to believe it's more than just a marking too, even though I can't see the raised area well. The first impression is that it could be a melanoma, but it's too immature at this point for me to diagnose it as such (and hopefully, I'm completely wrong on that). As long as it doesn't get much worse, I can't see cause to be concerned about it at this point -- as long as it's not bothering the fish. It would serve little purpose anyway to be concerned since we don't know what we're dealing with. As it has made an appearance though, you can only expect it to grow over time -- hopefully slowly and not too soon detrimental to the fish's health. If, by chance, it doesn't grow so much the better. Keep us posted if you see a noticeable change. Ray > > > > > > > > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 41502	From: Jasmine	Date: 6/27/2009
Subject: Re: Responses to Angels please help.

Thank you Bill, Ray and Lenny - I was reading some of the links that Lenny provided especially the "drip method" one. I think my biggest concern was 'how to you keep the water the same temp' during the acclimatisation period. You really can't place a heater in the water when the fish are first placed in - there just wouldn't be enough water. We are advised to ensure the heater is placed in the water for at least 15 minutes before switching it on. the only time I place the water from the LFS into my aquarium is in the isolation/quarantine tank. Then I move the fish across after quarantine is over. I will admit, I have a lot more to learn. I will keep reading on the methods of acclimating fish before we go and purchase any more. Thank you again. Jasmine --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, bill 1433 <warrenprint@...> wrote: > > > Hi Jasmine, >   > Since my waters are so different from LPS, I use the "drip method" and  here's how I do it. >   > First, float the bag as Ray just mentioned.  Next I use a plastic box from > "Sterlite", it holds roughly 3 gallons of water.  It measures about 16" long,5" high and 12" wide, it has a lid and cost 4 dollars at Wal-Mart.  >   > Next I open the entire bad and dump it into this box.  Making sure there is sufficient water covering the bottom to allow the fish to swim, if not tilt the box.  Next a siphon started with airline tubing, ( I have a valve setup for this) and tie a loose knot in it to allow a given amount of water to drip into the box.  I put in an air stone to allow water movement in the box , plus I use a pre-set, to the tanks temperature, heater.  All of these precautions may seem like a lot but because of my water parameters, I must acclimate fish for a long time, 4 hours.  Using this method, I've never lost a fish.  After acclamation in completed, the fish are removed to the aquarium and ALL water is then thrown away.  Never add LPS water to your established aquarium. >   > Bill > > --- On Fri, 6/26/09, Raymond Wetzel <sevenspringss@...> wrote: > > > From: Raymond Wetzel <sevenspringss@...> > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Responses to Angels please help. > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Date: Friday, June 26, 2009, 9:37 AM > > > Floating the bag to first equalize the temperature has always been a major step in acclimating new fish, and while this first step should always be preferable (in this manner -- floating) whenever possible, there are times when for various reasons (there may be too many fish in the bag, the fish is larger than average, the time lapse between store and home is excessive, etc.) the bag needs to be opened to prevent oxygen starvation.  > > Temperature equalization can likewise be accomplished in the bucket, when adding tank water to it slowly.  During more stressful times when the bag water may be depleted of much of its oxygen, an airstone should be added to the bucket.  If the bag can be allowed to float to equalize the temperature, that is only the first step of acclimation.  The bag should then be opened, a portion (perhaps 20%) of this water should be discarded and some tank water (equal amount as to what was discarded) should be added -- then, with rolling the bag sides down enough to permit the bag to float while open (or resealing the bag), allowing the fish to get used to this new mixture of bag water and tank water. > > This procedure should be repeated, for a minimum of 20 to 30 minutes -- although this really depends on the differences of pH between the store/bag water and the tank water, with a greater difference requiring more time between partial water additions and more time over all.  This will help the fish adjust to the new water parameters you're putting them in.  Under no circumstances should the fish just be allowed to swim out of their bag into the tank, as the bag water should all be discarded and not added to the tank.  While this may not entirely prevent the introduction of a disease, it may serve to limit it -- and will definitely ensure that any ammonia in the bag water does not get dumped into the tank. > > Some LFS owners and assistants may be more helpful in telling you what their tanks' pH is (and even the pH of a particular tank), but it's best not to rely on their say so.  They may have been mistaken or they may have given you an average/over-all pH value of all their tanks in general -- or may even have given you the pH of their source water which could have changed in their set up.  Its always best to do a pH test on their water when you get it home.  With increased CO2 being given off in the bag water between the time you left the LFS and the time you got home, the pH may have dropped anyway, from when that same water was tested at the LFS.  Ray > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Jasmine" <adonaikam@> wrote: > > > > Sorry, did I understand that you empty your bag into a bucket and add the water from your tank into the bucket (1 large cup every ten minutes)? > > > > I normally place the seal bag in my tank, allowing it to float for 20 to 30 minutes before I slowly mix the water and allowing the fish to swim out. > > > > Note:  > >      I first ask the LFS what their water reading is and ensure my water is similar.  I even brought my bristlenose first to ensure it would survive.  Left the tank for a week or two with just the bristlenose then went out and got my other fish. > > > >      Also, if the fish store is about 20 - 30 minutes drive from home - I advise the LFS so they can prepare the fish for the journey AND I also ensure I have a 'hot & cold pack' bag with a few towels (this ensure I keep the temp fairly constant). > > > > Jasmine > > > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "anallafamily.2001" <anallafamily.2001@> wrote: > > > > > > I got plenty of responsies with almost all the same questions. > > > water testing... > > > The water test that i have been doing is Nitrite, water is testing at 0ppm, ammonia might be high to day at 1.0, and ph is at 6.6. > > > chemicals... > > > when setting up the tank i used discuss buffer to lower ph  and i used another chemical to get chlorine out. I have also put aquarium salt in tank 1 time (someone suggested it to boost amunity in new fish. > > > Buying and acclamating..... > > > Ok so i have been buying them at the local walmart because they are cheeper. But I put them in a 5 gal. bucket with there water and a large cup of my water and let them sit 10 min. then add another large cup of my water and let sit another 5min. then i dip net them in my tank not adding any of the water. > > > Tank.... > > > It is a 55 gal tank with 2 filters on each end and a whisper air pump. I had the tank set up for about 10 weeks but only tryed to add the fish in the last 2weeks. > > > I don't know, but i think i have answered all questions. > > > thanks Jo > > > > > > > > > > ------------------------------------ > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. > ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> > PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- > <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. > > If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the home page.  > > Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com to receive the digest, which includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email > > Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com for the No E-Mail option where you will still be able to read messages on the group and post replies. > > Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com to receive individual e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 41503	From: Jasmine	Date: 6/27/2009
Subject: Re: O/T - PC Malfunctions

Hi Ray What sort of computer do you have (age, Mac or PC) Problem like that could possibly be the 'power supply' Depending upon the age of the PC, it may be easier to buy a new PC. UNLESS you have someone near you that can help you, its relatively easy to replace the power supply if your reasonably handy. By the way, can I ask - where are you located? Jasmine - -- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Raymond Wetzel" <sevenspringss@...> wrote: > > Does anyone (Lenny, \\Steve//) know if there is a circuit overload (fuse?) inside of computers that may get to be faulty, or can a overload-protection power strip go bad to the point of shutting itself off for no reason? I've been trying to reply to recent posts, some which I've been successful with and some that I had to re-write, due to 'puter malfunction. I've been unsuccessful in replying to one of Jasmine's messages from yesterday morning and just now Joellen's most recent message. I will be partly into writing a reply, when the screen goes black for about 3 seconds as though someone pulled the plug, then starts re-booting itself. Naturally all is lost at that time. This is a new one that's it's added to its bag of tricks, but one that's getting increasingly more frequent. Is there a fix I can do, like replacing a circuit breaker, or does this machine need the permanent fix (trash)? Thanks guys, Ray >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 41504	From: Jasmine	Date: 6/27/2009
Subject: Re: O/T - PC Malfunctions

Hi Ray Forgot to answer your question - We don't know of any circuit overload (fuse?) within the computers. We have Surge protectors on our computers to stop any overloads from occurring. Jasmine --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Raymond Wetzel" <sevenspringss@...> wrote: > > Does anyone (Lenny, \\Steve//) know if there is a circuit overload (fuse?) inside of computers that may get to be faulty, or can a overload-protection power strip go bad to the point of shutting itself off for no reason? I've been trying to reply to recent posts, some which I've been successful with and some that I had to re-write, due to 'puter malfunction. I've been unsuccessful in replying to one of Jasmine's messages from yesterday morning and just now Joellen's most recent message. I will be partly into writing a reply, when the screen goes black for about 3 seconds as though someone pulled the plug, then starts re-booting itself. Naturally all is lost at that time. This is a new one that's it's added to its bag of tricks, but one that's getting increasingly more frequent. Is there a fix I can do, like replacing a circuit breaker, or does this machine need the permanent fix (trash)? Thanks guys, Ray >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 41505	From: Jasmine	Date: 6/27/2009
Subject: Re: O/T - PC Malfunctions

Looks like you have a lot of replies on this topic, I should have read them first before replying the first time. Lets us know how you get on. Lots of Ideas on what the fault could be. Best of luck working it out. Jasmine --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Jasmine" <adonaikam@...> wrote: > > Hi Ray > > What sort of computer do you have (age, Mac or PC) > > Problem like that could possibly be the 'power supply' > > Depending upon the age of the PC, it may be easier to buy a new PC. > UNLESS you have someone near you that can help you, its relatively easy to replace the power supply if your reasonably handy. > > By the way, can I ask - where are you located? > Jasmine > > - > > -- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Raymond Wetzel" <sevenspringss@> wrote: > > > > Does anyone (Lenny, \\Steve//) know if there is a circuit overload (fuse?) inside of computers that may get to be faulty, or can a overload-protection power strip go bad to the point of shutting itself off for no reason? I've been trying to reply to recent posts, some which I've been successful with and some that I had to re-write, due to 'puter malfunction. I've been unsuccessful in replying to one of Jasmine's messages from yesterday morning and just now Joellen's most recent message. I will be partly into writing a reply, when the screen goes black for about 3 seconds as though someone pulled the plug, then starts re-booting itself. Naturally all is lost at that time. This is a new one that's it's added to its bag of tricks, but one that's getting increasingly more frequent. Is there a fix I can do, like replacing a circuit breaker, or does this machine need the permanent fix (trash)? Thanks guys, Ray > > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 41506	From: sevenspringss@wmconnect.com	Date: 6/27/2009
Subject: Re: O/T - PC Malfunctions

Thanks Sam, I WILL keep this info in mind, as something else needed to be checked out and will look into this possibility. Ray [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 41507	From: aaron102272	Date: 6/27/2009
Subject: Re: Flourish products

Thanks Byron, That is a great picture of the 33gallon, although at first glance the Cardinal Tetra is the only fish I saw - I had to zoom in to count the other 11. I was expecting a "crowded" tank after reading your message. I'd like to have several dozen Tetras in my 55g eventually,I'm guessing you built up your stock levels slowly? If you could please add some pics to the groups photo album that would be great. I like seeing big tanks with lots of fish. It is good to know that I do not need to invest in a pressurized Co2 system, I could not find (online) any place locally to fill the Co2 tanks anyway. Now that I have a better understanding of the root tabs I will be using them regularly, I was concerned in the past about them getting lost in the gravel when I rearrange the plants or vacuumed it. I like the idea of the plant sticks that last a year and it sounds like they are easier to find in the aquarium for when I relocate the plants. What "T" type of lighting is the best or is there really a best type for plants? I have compact fluorescent not sure what T type those are, but have read (here - http://www.azgardens.com/c-25-aquarium-lights.aspx ) that the T5 bulbs are better, and now there are LED light systems on the market. I need to replace my bulbs anyway (there are more than 1 year old already) and am considering upgrading the system to T5. There are some pics of how my aquarium looked a couple years ago (in the groups photo albums - Aaron's 55 gallon ~ community tank with live plants) with just the eco-complete substrate and 2- 65w cf dual spectrum bulbs 10,000 & 6,700, there was the small 100 ml bottle of Flourish products that came in the 3 pack that I used occasionally, but that was the only type of fertilizer I tried. there may have been 30 or so fish, not sure but it seemed like a lot back then http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife/photos/album/401605401/pic/list --- On Fri, 6/26/09, Byron wrote: From: Byron <bhosking@...> Subject: Re: Byron ~ Re: Co2 & Planted Tank?'s (was Re: Flourish products) To: "aaron102272" <aaron102272@...> Date: Friday, June 26, 2009, 8:19 AM Hi Aaron, For some reason I couldn't see your message on the group (Lenny did a "Re:" response so I expected to find it, but...) so I'll respond direct. You can post this if you like. I've never used CO2 and can see no reason to ever try it. I am satisfied with the plant growth I can get using a minimal approach (sort of low-tech but I do use filters and heaters so not strictly low-tech). Flourish Comprehensive liquid is the only regular fertilization, plus six substrate tabs--or more accurately, they are Plant Gro sticks marketed by Nutrafin; they claim to last one year and I got one 6-stick package to try them. There are three in each tank, inserted beside the crown of three of the largest swords in each tank. I did this in March and I believe they have made a difference with those plants. Fish respiration provides CO2 of course, and some is in the tap water, and as Lenny points out in his subsequent response there are a couple of other sources; these (except for the fish) are minimal I suspect. I believe in having lots of fish in an aquarium. They are all small, mostly 1-2 inches adult; nothing over 2 inches except the Bolivian Ram in the 90g and single specimen catfish like Farlowella in the 70g and the Whiptail in the 90g. And I never fail to do a 40-50% partial water change every week. In my 70g today I have 62 fish, intending to up this to 77 on Saturday with some new fish, and if I can find the rarer pencilfish I am looking for I will eventually have more than a hundred fish in this tank. The 90g currently has 112 fish, more will be added if and when I find the ones I'd like (some of the less common characins). Back in the mid-1990's I had 120 fish in the 90g, then I set up a 115g and moved them over and added about 15-20 more I think. There was an article in AFI a couple months back about setting up a biotope tank of the Orinoco River in SA, and the author was suggesting 130 fish in a 40g tank to be authentic. Heiko Bleher has written of similar numbers in his articles on SA biotopes of the Rio Negro and Rio Guapore, 140-150 fish in a 40-50g aquarium. I wrote at length on this issue in another forum, pointing out that this will work provided the fish are compatible in terms of having basically identical requirements in water parameters (pH, hardness, salinity, temperature) and the environment (plants, wood, rock, etc.), and in their natural behaviours. If the fish feel "at home" (the water and environment) and have no worries about tankmates (behaviour) they will not be stressed and therefore healthy, happy and more likely to exhibit their natural behaviours which are fascinating to behold. Having plants growing well is another factor, since they do a lot of natural filtering; Dr. Ted Coletti in the July TFH says plants are the first filter in a fish tank and more biological filtration takes place on or through the plants than any filter we can hook up. And third factor is regular partial water changes every week. Light must be full spectrum, as every plant expert I've read remarks. I have two 40w tubes over each tank, and I mix them to achieve what I want in terms of intensity and appearance. Aquatic plants (so they say) require mostly blue and then red light; they reflect green/yellow light. But blue and red looks purplish or sometimes ghostly, so the green/yellow is the appearance aspect that makes the plants and fish colours natural to our eye. On my 70g I have one 6700K Life-Glo tube and one 5500K "Daylight Deluxe" tube (Phillips I think), and on the 90g a 11,000K Lightning Rod T6 Full Spectrum [strong in the blue range and better penetration for this deeper tank] and to balance with the warmer colours a 5500K Zoo Med Tropic Sun. On single-strip tanks (like my 33g not currently set up) I would use a Life-Glo tube every time. On its own it looks good [said to be equal to the mid-day sun at the equator] and plants respond well under it. My substrate has always been regular aquarium gravel, the smallest grain size I can get. I've been tempted to try sand, but so far haven't. The only reason I would is for the corydoras, as sand is more natural; but considering every plant author recommends small-grain gravel as preferred before sand, I'll likely stay with what I know works. No additives other than the plant sticks. In 1996 I used laterite under the gravel in my 115g, but honestly didn't notice any difference in that tank from the 90g that had only plant tabs, and both tanks were side by side in the same room with identical light, water, plant species (swords, crypts), etc. Algae is present but in my mind at a reasonable natural level. I think the key to algae control is the correct balance of light and nutrients for the plants. If the light is greater than the available nutrients, plants can't use it and algae will because algae is better able to obtain carbon from carbonates than plants. The lights are on 13 hours a day, and there is diffused daylight from a window. I have algae-eating fish (1 Farlowella only in the 70g; 1 Whiptail cat, 3 Headstanders (Chilodus punctatus) and 6 Ottocinclus in the 90g) plus pond snails and Malaysian trumpet snails to handle the normal green (or brown) algae. Brush algae is present on the wood, and some plant leaves; I remove the leaf if it gets too much. I agree with you on the simple approach. I use heaters because I need them in this west coast temperate climate, and I have an Eheim Pro canister filter on each tank to circulate the water slowly and provide mechanical filtration. I never use chemical filtration, that is what the plants do best. I rinse the filter pad (the white wool one) every month or so to keep it from clogging, and replace it when it begins to fall apart. I never replace the media, which is one chamber of lava rock and one chamber of ceramic disks, I rinse them maybe every 4-6 months. This has worked for me for 15-20 years. I am blessed with very soft slightly acidic (pH 6.8) tap water, ideal for SA fish, and I have a small nylon bag of dolomite (about 1/2 a cup I think) in the top chamber of each filter just to add some mineral and keep the pH above 6.0; without this is has dropped below 6.0 and I just prefer to keep it a bit higher. Right now it runs 6.2 to 6.5 with the diurnal variation. Temp is constant 25.5C (78F). Photo of each tank is attached. These have been set up since last October when I moved them into a different room. I took these photos yesterday; whenever I change something in the tank I take photos just for a record, and I rearranged the left side of the 70g two weeks ago. Also a photo of the 33g I had last fall; this tank has one 25w Life-Glo tube, same liquid fertilization and regular gravel, no additives, a small corner sponge filter. The main plant in this tank was an Anubias nana that I bought more than 8 years ago; it was in the back corner of the 90g then, and it just grew slowly but steadily, and last September I broke it apart and used it to aquascape the 33g. There are crypts on the bottom, and floating Ceratopteris (water sprite) that came out of the old 90g. Feel free to comment or ask further. Best wishes, Byron. ----- Original Message ----- From: "aaron102272" Sent: Thursday, June 25, 2009 1:23 PM Subject: Byron ~ Re: Co2 & Planted Tank?'s (was Re: Flourish products) Hi Byron, That is a lot of good information, thank you. So, you are not currently using any added Co2? did you ever add Co2? And the regular Flourish (not Excel) is the only added fertilizer besides the tabs? You mentioned - "CO2 is provided by the respiration of the fish,..." How stocked are your tanks for the fish to create adequate Co2 levels? I currently only have 11 Neons and 3 Indian algae Eaters (as well as a bunch of Malaysian Trumpet and Nerite snails - do they create Co2 also?) in the 55 Gallon, there used to be several dozen livebeares back when the plants were growing really well, maybe they were making enough Co2? Do you recommend or use a particular type of light? What kind of Substrate? That sounds really simple and I like like simple, it is way to easy to over complicate things and really difficult to undue the complications i.e. algae. Do you have any pictures of the planted Tanks? Thanks Again, Aaron

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 41508	From: sevenspringss@wmconnect.com	Date: 6/27/2009
Subject: Re: O/T - PC Malfunctions

Hi \\Steve//, Thanks for your detailed reply; most helpful. I'll put it to good use and keep these suggestions in mind as I go over this machine. Also, I didn't know about Windows 7, thanks. Ray [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 41509	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 6/27/2009
Subject: Re: Complete 55g Reef System for Sale

Are you a member of the Raleigh club there? Might be worth investigating. http://www.raleighaquariumsociety.com/ \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Matthew Hamlett Sent: Friday, June 26, 2009 11:27 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Complete 55g Reef System for Sale Sorry, forgot to mention that. Raleigh, NC. If I don't get any takers on the complete setup, I'll consider parting it out and shipping smaller stuff. Thanks! On Fri, 26 Jun 2009 21:33 -0400, "Steve Szabo" <steve@...> wrote: And, local pick-up would be where? \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: [1]AquaticLife@yahoogroups. com [mailto:[2]AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of mihamlett Sent: Friday, June 26, 2009 9:16 AM To: [3]AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Complete 55g Reef System for Sale Asking: $1000 OBO Up for sale is a complete 55 gallon Reef tank system. Including all the lighting, filters and other components you may need. I recently dismantled this system because I was moving and needed to downsize tanks. All components are working and in good condition. No livestock included. You must pick up, but I'll be glad to help you load. Trying to sell as a complete package first then I might decide to part it out. 1. 55G All Glass Aquarium w/ built in overflow box in the center rear of the tank. Overflow box has 1" and 3/4" drain. I built up a durso (sp?) pipe system in the overflow to quiet the noise. Two 1" Returns at the top rear corners of the tank. There is some coraline algae growth on the rear of the tank, the back has also been painted black. The tank is in good condition, no leaks. Few minor small scratches on front glass, don't really notice it when water is in the tank. 2. Stand for 55G Tank open back w/ 20 Gallon long tank as sump (Sump has no dividers inside.) 3. Mag 5 Return Pump 4. Custom Built Canopy w/ Two 175w Metal Halides and Two 46.5" VHO Bulbs and all reflectors. Canopy custom built to keep bulbs about 12" or so off the water. 5. Metal halide bulbs used for about 4 years (14,000K, don't remember brand). 175 W x 2 bulbs 6. Metal halide bulbs new, used for less than 24 hrs (10,000K but didn't like the color). 175W x 2 bulbs 7. VHO Bulbs are 20,000 Actinics, are about 4 years old but still going strong. 8. Euro-Reef RS80 Protein Skimmer w/ Pump 9. 1/4 HP Via Aqua Chiller 10. 2 Icecap 440 Ballasts (Metal Halide-175w), 1 Icecap 660 Ballast (Flourescent), 2 Icecap heatsinks, all custom mounted to board and wiring harness to the canopy that is sufficiently long enough to keep the ballasts away from the tank 11. 1 x WON Pro-Heat IC Heater 100W 11in 12. UV Sterilizer (not sure of brand right now) 13. SCWD Wavemaker (switching current, 3/4in) 14. AquaController Jr (Non backlit) + DC8 Aquarium Controller. Works great! small scratch on display. One of the DC8 outlets does not switch, always on. Standard pH + Temperature Probes 15. All necessary plumbing to hook all this up (I custom cut PVC pipe for supply and return to sump I also have these items included but they were not hooked up to the tank and are left over parts from upgrades/etc. All work fine. 1. Used CO2 cylinder, should work fine got off craigslist but never got a chance to build co2 system. 2. Several assorted powerheads including one Maxi-Jet 1200, one Rio M820, Rio 600. 3. Coralife Super Protein SKimmer 65 gallon model 4. Reeffanatic pH Calibration fluid 5. ASM Sedra 3500 Pump 6. Assorted unused sea-horse medication (Neo3 , Formalin 16oz, Methylene Blue, Triple Sulpha) 7. Lots of assorted plumbing parts 8. Various filtration media, test kit stuff, food 9. One 10 gallon and 20 gallon long tank. 10. Standard aquarium light for 20L, standard light for 10 gallon, several other lights for refugium 11. Several HOB Filters aquaclear, good for refugiums Pictures can be seen at: [4]http://picasaweb.google.com/mattSales5713/AquariumPictures I'll try to get more up of the different parts soon. Asking $1000 OBO for everything as a set. If I'm not able to sell as a set I might just part out and sell on e-bay. Prefer local pickup. Will not ship tank, stand or canopy.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 41510	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 6/27/2009
Subject: Quick Review of SonicScrubber

Her is a quickie review of a product called SonicScrubber, apparently offered in the Drs. Foster & Smith catalog, but may also be available in the automotive section of your favorite discount store. http://www.oceanathome.com/sonicscrubber-makes-aquarium-cleaning-a-cinch / TinyURL: http://tinyurl.com/qzdfmo The only responsibility I take is that the review exists on the web. \\Steve//

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 41511	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 6/27/2009
Subject: Plasma Candy Aquarium DVD

Tired of watching sporting events in HD? Movies beginning to bore you? Why not turn that screen into an aquarium? Plasma Candy allows you to do just that with their Aquarium DVD! Read about it at: http://www.plasmacandy.com/Aquarium-DVD.shtml \\Steve//

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 41512	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 6/27/2009
Subject: Re: Quick Review of SonicScrubber

Cool. Now I don't have to use my electric toothbrush on my tank any more... or have to listen to comments that I have a piece of spinach stuck in my teeth and then explain it was algae. LOL I wonder if the vibrations from these things would cause the fish any issues with their lateral line sensory organ? On a side note, the same people sell the Bathroom/Kitchen versions of these SonicScrubbers instead of the automotive version. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Steve Szabo Sent: Saturday, June 27, 2009 8:29 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Quick Review of SonicScrubber Her is a quickie review of a product called SonicScrubber, apparently offered in the Drs. Foster & Smith catalog, but may also be available in the automotive section of your favorite discount store. http://www.oceanathome.com/sonicscrubber-makes-aquarium-cleaning-a-cinch / TinyURL: http://tinyurl.com/qzdfmo The only responsibility I take is that the review exists on the web. \\Steve//

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 41513	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 6/27/2009
Subject: Re: Quick Review of SonicScrubber

I was kind of wondering the same thing. I think someone might want to delve a bit deeper into this and determine whether there may be any effect, and, if so is it damaging and/or lasting. \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Lenny V. aka GoldLenny Sent: Saturday, June 27, 2009 10:25 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Quick Review of SonicScrubber Cool. Now I don't have to use my electric toothbrush on my tank any more... or have to listen to comments that I have a piece of spinach stuck in my teeth and then explain it was algae. LOL I wonder if the vibrations from these things would cause the fish any issues with their lateral line sensory organ? On a side note, the same people sell the Bathroom/Kitchen versions of these SonicScrubbers instead of the automotive version. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Steve Szabo Sent: Saturday, June 27, 2009 8:29 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Quick Review of SonicScrubber Her is a quickie review of a product called SonicScrubber, apparently offered in the Drs. Foster & Smith catalog, but may also be available in the automotive section of your favorite discount store. http://www.oceanathome.com/sonicscrubber-makes-aquarium-cleaning-a-cinch / TinyURL: http://tinyurl.com/qzdfmo The only responsibility I take is that the review exists on the web. \\Steve//

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 41514	From: William	Date: 6/27/2009
Subject: Re: Responses to Angels please help.

Even in the quarantine tank I would not add the water from the bag. Why, you want to get rid of as many of the bad bugs (bacteria etc.) as possible and if you add the water from the bag you may be introducing many from the lfs water. --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Jasmine" <adonaikam@...> wrote: > > Thank you Bill, Ray and Lenny - I was reading some of the links that Lenny provided especially the "drip method" one. I think my biggest concern was 'how to you keep the water the same temp' during the acclimatisation period. You really can't place a heater in the water when the fish are first placed in - there just wouldn't be enough water. We are advised to ensure the heater is placed in the water for at least 15 minutes before switching it on. > > the only time I place the water from the LFS into my aquarium is in the isolation/quarantine tank. Then I move the fish across after quarantine is over. > > I will admit, I have a lot more to learn. I will keep reading on the methods of acclimating fish before we go and purchase any more. > > Thank you again. > Jasmine > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, bill 1433 <warrenprint@> wrote: > > > > > > Hi Jasmine, > >   > > Since my waters are so different from LPS, I use the "drip method" and  here's how I do it. > >   > > First, float the bag as Ray just mentioned.  Next I use a plastic box from > > "Sterlite", it holds roughly 3 gallons of water.  It measures about 16" long,5" high and 12" wide, it has a lid and cost 4 dollars at Wal-Mart.  > >   > > Next I open the entire bad and dump it into this box.  Making sure there is sufficient water covering the bottom to allow the fish to swim, if not tilt the box.  Next a siphon started with airline tubing, ( I have a valve setup for this) and tie a loose knot in it to allow a given amount of water to drip into the box.  I put in an air stone to allow water movement in the box , plus I use a pre-set, to the tanks temperature, heater.  All of these precautions may seem like a lot but because of my water parameters, I must acclimate fish for a long time, 4 hours.  Using this method, I've never lost a fish.  After acclamation in completed, the fish are removed to the aquarium and ALL water is then thrown away.  Never add LPS water to your established aquarium. > >   > > Bill > > > > --- On Fri, 6/26/09, Raymond Wetzel <sevenspringss@> wrote: > > > > > > From: Raymond Wetzel <sevenspringss@> > > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Responses to Angels please help. > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > Date: Friday, June 26, 2009, 9:37 AM > > > > > > Floating the bag to first equalize the temperature has always been a major step in acclimating new fish, and while this first step should always be preferable (in this manner -- floating) whenever possible, there are times when for various reasons (there may be too many fish in the bag, the fish is larger than average, the time lapse between store and home is excessive, etc.) the bag needs to be opened to prevent oxygen starvation.  > > > > Temperature equalization can likewise be accomplished in the bucket, when adding tank water to it slowly.  During more stressful times when the bag water may be depleted of much of its oxygen, an airstone should be added to the bucket.  If the bag can be allowed to float to equalize the temperature, that is only the first step of acclimation.  The bag should then be opened, a portion (perhaps 20%) of this water should be discarded and some tank water (equal amount as to what was discarded) should be added -- then, with rolling the bag sides down enough to permit the bag to float while open (or resealing the bag), allowing the fish to get used to this new mixture of bag water and tank water. > > > > This procedure should be repeated, for a minimum of 20 to 30 minutes -- although this really depends on the differences of pH between the store/bag water and the tank water, with a greater difference requiring more time between partial water additions and more time over all.  This will help the fish adjust to the new water parameters you're putting them in.  Under no circumstances should the fish just be allowed to swim out of their bag into the tank, as the bag water should all be discarded and not added to the tank.  While this may not entirely prevent the introduction of a disease, it may serve to limit it -- and will definitely ensure that any ammonia in the bag water does not get dumped into the tank. > > > > Some LFS owners and assistants may be more helpful in telling you what their tanks' pH is (and even the pH of a particular tank), but it's best not to rely on their say so.  They may have been mistaken or they may have given you an average/over-all pH value of all their tanks in general -- or may even have given you the pH of their source water which could have changed in their set up.  Its always best to do a pH test on their water when you get it home.  With increased CO2 being given off in the bag water between the time you left the LFS and the time you got home, the pH may have dropped anyway, from when that same water was tested at the LFS.  Ray > > > > > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Jasmine" <adonaikam@> wrote: > > > > > > Sorry, did I understand that you empty your bag into a bucket and add the water from your tank into the bucket (1 large cup every ten minutes)? > > > > > > I normally place the seal bag in my tank, allowing it to float for 20 to 30 minutes before I slowly mix the water and allowing the fish to swim out. > > > > > > Note:  > > >      I first ask the LFS what their water reading is and ensure my water is similar.  I even brought my bristlenose first to ensure it would survive.  Left the tank for a week or two with just the bristlenose then went out and got my other fish. > > > > > >      Also, if the fish store is about 20 - 30 minutes drive from home - I advise the LFS so they can prepare the fish for the journey AND I also ensure I have a 'hot & cold pack' bag with a few towels (this ensure I keep the temp fairly constant). > > > > > > Jasmine > > > > > > > > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "anallafamily.2001" <anallafamily.2001@> wrote: > > > > > > > > I got plenty of responsies with almost all the same questions. > > > > water testing... > > > > The water test that i have been doing is Nitrite, water is testing at 0ppm, ammonia might be high to day at 1.0, and ph is at 6.6. > > > > chemicals... > > > > when setting up the tank i used discuss buffer to lower ph  and i used another chemical to get chlorine out. I have also put aquarium salt in tank 1 time (someone suggested it to boost amunity in new fish. > > > > Buying and acclamating..... > > > > Ok so i have been buying them at the local walmart because they are cheeper. But I put them in a 5 gal. bucket with there water and a large cup of my water and let them sit 10 min. then add another large cup of my water and let sit another 5min. then i dip net them in my tank not adding any of the water. > > > > Tank.... > > > > It is a 55 gal tank with 2 filters on each end and a whisper air pump. I had the tank set up for about 10 weeks but only tryed to add the fish in the last 2weeks. > > > > I don't know, but i think i have answered all questions. > > > > thanks Jo > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ------------------------------------ > > > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. > > ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> > > PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- > > <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. > > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. > > > > If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the home page.  > > > > Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com to receive the digest, which includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email > > > > Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com for the No E-Mail option where you will still be able to read messages on the group and post replies. > > > > Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com to receive individual e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links > > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 41515	From: Thomas Silva	Date: 6/27/2009
Subject: Re: Off Topic? ~ Great Sale! @ www.CustomAquatic.com

this is not spam i think it a good idea to give the head on fishtank or related products sales. you should be encourage to post. thanks tommybill --- On Fri, 6/19/09, aaron102272 <aaron102272@...> wrote: From: aaron102272 <aaron102272@...> Subject: [AquaticLife] Off Topic? ~ Great Sale! @ www.CustomAquatic.com To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Date: Friday, June 19, 2009, 7:01 PM https://www. customaquatic. com/ 10% off all Saltwater & Freshwater Additives and Water Conditioners ~ Hurry - Sale ends June 24th and for a limited time, take an extra 25% off Oceanpure & Oceanpure PRO Salt This was my first time buying from this website, they had the lowest prices I could find for products for my Planted Tank and the 4 Liter of Flourish Excel (I could not find any other place that even offers the 4liter size) I apologize if you think this is spam, however if you happen to know of a great website with the lowest prices available and awesome sales, I hope you too would be willing to share that info with me and the other members in the group that might be interested in saving some money. Thanks for reading, Aaron [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 41516	From: bill 1433	Date: 6/27/2009
Subject: Re: Responses to Angels please help.

Exactly Right!   ol' bill --- On Sat, 6/27/09, William <dreammaker2623@...> wrote: From: William <dreammaker2623@...> Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Responses to Angels please help. To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Date: Saturday, June 27, 2009, 10:57 AM Even in the quarantine tank I would not add the water from the bag.  Why, you want to get rid of as many of the bad bugs (bacteria etc.) as possible and if you add the water from the bag you may be introducing many from the lfs water. --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Jasmine" <adonaikam@...> wrote: > > Thank you Bill, Ray and Lenny - I was reading some of the links that Lenny provided especially the "drip method" one.  I think my biggest concern was 'how to you keep the water the same temp' during the acclimatisation period.  You really can't place a heater in the water when the fish are first placed in - there just wouldn't be enough water.  We are advised to ensure the heater is placed in the water for at least 15 minutes before switching it on. > > the only time I place the water from the LFS into my aquarium is in the isolation/quarantine tank.  Then I move the fish across after quarantine is over. > > I will admit, I have a lot more to learn.  I will keep reading on the methods of acclimating fish before we go and purchase any more. > > Thank you again. > Jasmine > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, bill 1433 <warrenprint@> wrote: > > > > > > Hi Jasmine, > >   > > Since my waters are so different from LPS, I use the "drip method" and  here's how I do it. > >   > > First, float the bag as Ray just mentioned.  Next I use a plastic box from > > "Sterlite", it holds roughly 3 gallons of water.  It measures about 16" long,5" high and 12" wide, it has a lid and cost 4 dollars at Wal-Mart.  > >   > > Next I open the entire bad and dump it into this box.  Making sure there is sufficient water covering the bottom to allow the fish to swim, if not tilt the box.  Next a siphon started with airline tubing, ( I have a valve setup for this) and tie a loose knot in it to allow a given amount of water to drip into the box.  I put in an air stone to allow water movement in the box , plus I use a pre-set, to the tanks temperature, heater.  All of these precautions may seem like a lot but because of my water parameters, I must acclimate fish for a long time, 4 hours.  Using this method, I've never lost a fish.  After acclamation in completed, the fish are removed to the aquarium and ALL water is then thrown away.  Never add LPS water to your established aquarium. > >   > > Bill > > > > --- On Fri, 6/26/09, Raymond Wetzel <sevenspringss@> wrote: > > > > > > From: Raymond Wetzel <sevenspringss@> > > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Responses to Angels please help. > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > Date: Friday, June 26, 2009, 9:37 AM > > > > > > Floating the bag to first equalize the temperature has always been a major step in acclimating new fish, and while this first step should always be preferable (in this manner -- floating) whenever possible, there are times when for various reasons (there may be too many fish in the bag, the fish is larger than average, the time lapse between store and home is excessive, etc.) the bag needs to be opened to prevent oxygen starvation.  > > > > Temperature equalization can likewise be accomplished in the bucket, when adding tank water to it slowly.  During more stressful times when the bag water may be depleted of much of its oxygen, an airstone should be added to the bucket.  If the bag can be allowed to float to equalize the temperature, that is only the first step of acclimation.  The bag should then be opened, a portion (perhaps 20%) of this water should be discarded and some tank water (equal amount as to what was discarded) should be added -- then, with rolling the bag sides down enough to permit the bag to float while open (or resealing the bag), allowing the fish to get used to this new mixture of bag water and tank water. > > > > This procedure should be repeated, for a minimum of 20 to 30 minutes -- although this really depends on the differences of pH between the store/bag water and the tank water, with a greater difference requiring more time between partial water additions and more time over all.  This will help the fish adjust to the new water parameters you're putting them in.  Under no circumstances should the fish just be allowed to swim out of their bag into the tank, as the bag water should all be discarded and not added to the tank.  While this may not entirely prevent the introduction of a disease, it may serve to limit it -- and will definitely ensure that any ammonia in the bag water does not get dumped into the tank. > > > > Some LFS owners and assistants may be more helpful in telling you what their tanks' pH is (and even the pH of a particular tank), but it's best not to rely on their say so.  They may have been mistaken or they may have given you an average/over-all pH value of all their tanks in general -- or may even have given you the pH of their source water which could have changed in their set up.  Its always best to do a pH test on their water when you get it home.  With increased CO2 being given off in the bag water between the time you left the LFS and the time you got home, the pH may have dropped anyway, from when that same water was tested at the LFS.  Ray > > > > > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Jasmine" <adonaikam@> wrote: > > > > > > Sorry, did I understand that you empty your bag into a bucket and add the water from your tank into the bucket (1 large cup every ten minutes)? > > > > > > I normally place the seal bag in my tank, allowing it to float for 20 to 30 minutes before I slowly mix the water and allowing the fish to swim out. > > > > > > Note:  > > >      I first ask the LFS what their water reading is and ensure my water is similar.  I even brought my bristlenose first to ensure it would survive.  Left the tank for a week or two with just the bristlenose then went out and got my other fish. > > > > > >      Also, if the fish store is about 20 - 30 minutes drive from home - I advise the LFS so they can prepare the fish for the journey AND I also ensure I have a 'hot & cold pack' bag with a few towels (this ensure I keep the temp fairly constant). > > > > > > Jasmine > > > > > > > > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "anallafamily.2001" <anallafamily..2001@> wrote: > > > > > > > > I got plenty of responsies with almost all the same questions. > > > > water testing... > > > > The water test that i have been doing is Nitrite, water is testing at 0ppm, ammonia might be high to day at 1.0, and ph is at 6.6. > > > > chemicals... > > > > when setting up the tank i used discuss buffer to lower ph  and i used another chemical to get chlorine out. I have also put aquarium salt in tank 1 time (someone suggested it to boost amunity in new fish. > > > > Buying and acclamating..... > > > > Ok so i have been buying them at the local walmart because they are cheeper. But I put them in a 5 gal. bucket with there water and a large cup of my water and let them sit 10 min. then add another large cup of my water and let sit another 5min. then i dip net them in my tank not adding any of the water. > > > > Tank.... > > > > It is a 55 gal tank with 2 filters on each end and a whisper air pump. I had the tank set up for about 10 weeks but only tryed to add the fish in the last 2weeks. > > > > I don't know, but i think i have answered all questions. > > > > thanks Jo > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ------------------------------------ > > > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. > > ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> > > PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- > > <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. > > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. > > > > If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the home page.  > > > > Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com to receive the digest, which includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email > > > > Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com for the No E-Mail option where you will still be able to read messages on the group and post replies. > > > > Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com to receive individual e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links > > > ------------------------------------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the home page.  Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com to receive the digest, which includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com for the No E-Mail option where you will still be able to read messages on the group and post replies. Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com to receive individual e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 41517	From: Byron	Date: 6/27/2009
Subject: Re: Flourish products

Thanks for posting the message Aaron. To answer your questions: Yes I slowly add fish over time, due to the nitrogen cycle; as you and others know, once a tank is "cycled" it has sufficient bacteria (nitrosomonas and nitrospira) for the amount of ammonia/nitrite available to them as food. Adding fish increases the ammonia and the nitrosomonas have to multiply [they do this by binary division] to handle it, and it is my understanding that nitrosomonas can double in 7 hours and nitrospira in 13-20 hours under optimum conditions. I would therefore add fish keeping this in mind, but also aware that the more mature a tank and the more fish already in it, the more bacteria there are to divide. In that 33g I had around 45 fish I think; I moved them to the 70g when I set it up. I'll add photos as soon as I can find some time to master the complicated (for me it will be!) technical process. Right now I'm responding to posts while acclimating some new fish--I acquired 8 Carnegiella marthae marthae this morning, wild caught (many are now commercially being farmed but these are direct from Brazil). I still use the regular fluorescent tubes/fixtures. The T5 are a compact form, requiring different fixtures so that's for the future. The T5 tubes I've seen are the same type as the standard with respect to the light output, i.e., Life-Glo comes in both standard and T5, etc. The T5 are more expensive (naturally) but consume less power and cost less to run I imagine [= more environmentally friendly]. Beyond looking at one of the T5 last week in a local store and talking to the clerk a bit, I've no experience with them. In another forum it was suggested that the "watt per gallon" ratio can be reduced with the compact tubes because the lower wattage emits more intense light so one has to figure out how much is required to be comparable to the 1-2 or whatever watts per gallon of the regular fluorescents. Byron. --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "aaron102272" <aaron102272@...> wrote: > > > Thanks Byron, > > That is a great picture of the 33gallon, although at first glance the Cardinal Tetra is the only fish I saw - I had to zoom in to count the other 11. I was expecting a "crowded" tank after reading your message. I'd like to have several dozen Tetras in my 55g eventually,I'm guessing you built up your stock levels slowly? > > If you could please add some pics to the groups photo album that would be great. I like seeing big tanks with lots of fish. > > It is good to know that I do not need to invest in a pressurized Co2 system, I could not find (online) any place locally to fill the Co2 tanks anyway. > > Now that I have a better understanding of the root tabs I will be using them regularly, I was concerned in the past about them getting lost in the gravel when I rearrange the plants or vacuumed it. I like the idea of the plant sticks that last a year and it sounds like they are easier to find in the aquarium for when I relocate the plants. > > What "T" type of lighting is the best or is there really a best type for plants? I have compact fluorescent not sure what T type those are, but have read (here - > http://www.azgardens.com/c-25-aquarium-lights.aspx ) > that the T5 bulbs are better, and now there are LED light systems on the market. I need to replace my bulbs anyway (there are more than 1 year old already) and am considering upgrading the system to T5. > > > There are some pics of how my aquarium looked a couple years ago (in the groups photo albums - Aaron's 55 gallon ~ community tank with live plants) with just the eco-complete substrate and 2- 65w cf dual spectrum bulbs 10,000 & 6,700, there was the small 100 ml bottle of Flourish products that came in the 3 pack that I used occasionally, but that was the only type of fertilizer I tried. there may have been 30 or so fish, not sure but it seemed like a lot back then > > > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife/photos/album/401605401/pic/list > > > > > --- On Fri, 6/26/09, Byron wrote: > > > From: Byron <bhosking@...> > Subject: Re: Byron ~ Re: Co2 & Planted Tank?'s (was Re: Flourish products) > To: "aaron102272" <aaron102272@...> > Date: Friday, June 26, 2009, 8:19 AM > > Hi Aaron, > > For some reason I couldn't see your message on the group (Lenny did a "Re:" response so I expected to find it, but...) so I'll respond direct. You can post this if you like. > > I've never used CO2 and can see no reason to ever try it. I am satisfied with the plant growth I can get using a minimal approach (sort of low-tech but I do use filters and heaters so not strictly low-tech). Flourish Comprehensive liquid is the only regular fertilization, plus six substrate tabs--or more accurately, they are Plant Gro sticks marketed by Nutrafin; they claim to last one year and I got one 6-stick package to try them. There are three in each tank, inserted beside the crown of three of the largest swords in each tank. I did this in March and I believe they have made a difference with those plants. > > Fish respiration provides CO2 of course, and some is in the tap water, and as Lenny points out in his subsequent response there are a couple of other sources; these (except for the fish) are minimal I suspect. I believe in having lots of fish in an aquarium. They are all small, mostly 1-2 inches adult; nothing over 2 inches except the Bolivian Ram in the 90g and single specimen catfish like Farlowella in the 70g and the Whiptail in the 90g. And I never fail to do a 40-50% partial water change every week. In my 70g today I have 62 fish, intending to up this to 77 on Saturday with some new fish, and if I can find the rarer pencilfish I am looking for I will eventually have more than a hundred fish in this tank. The 90g currently has 112 fish, more will be added if and when I find the ones I'd like (some of the less common characins). Back in the mid-1990's I had 120 fish in the 90g, then I set up a 115g and moved them over and added about 15-20 more I think. There was an article in AFI a couple months back about setting up a biotope tank of the Orinoco River in SA, and the author was suggesting 130 fish in a 40g tank to be authentic. Heiko Bleher has written of similar numbers in his articles on SA biotopes of the Rio Negro and Rio Guapore, 140-150 fish in a 40-50g aquarium. I wrote at length on this issue in another forum, pointing out that this will work provided the fish are compatible in terms of having basically identical requirements in water parameters (pH, hardness, salinity, temperature) and the environment (plants, wood, rock, etc.), and in their natural behaviours. If the fish feel "at home" (the water and environment) and have no worries about tankmates (behaviour) they will not be stressed and therefore healthy, happy and more likely to exhibit their natural behaviours which are fascinating to behold. Having plants growing well is another factor, since they do a lot of natural filtering; Dr. Ted Coletti in the July TFH says plants are the first filter in a fish tank and more biological filtration takes place on or through the plants than any filter we can hook up. And third factor is regular partial water changes every week. > > Light must be full spectrum, as every plant expert I've read remarks. I have two 40w tubes over each tank, and I mix them to achieve what I want in terms of intensity and appearance. Aquatic plants (so they say) require mostly blue and then red light; they reflect green/yellow light. But blue and red looks purplish or sometimes ghostly, so the green/yellow is the appearance aspect that makes the plants and fish colours natural to our eye. On my 70g I have one 6700K Life-Glo tube and one 5500K "Daylight Deluxe" tube (Phillips I think), and on the 90g a 11,000K Lightning Rod T6 Full Spectrum [strong in the blue range and better penetration for this deeper tank] and to balance with the warmer colours a 5500K Zoo Med Tropic Sun. On single-strip tanks (like my 33g not currently set up) I would use a Life-Glo tube every time. On its own it looks good [said to be equal to the mid-day sun at the equator] and plants respond well under it. > > My substrate has always been regular aquarium gravel, the smallest grain size I can get. I've been tempted to try sand, but so far haven't. The only reason I would is for the corydoras, as sand is more natural; but considering every plant author recommends small-grain gravel as preferred before sand, I'll likely stay with what I know works. No additives other than the plant sticks. In 1996 I used laterite under the gravel in my 115g, but honestly didn't notice any difference in that tank from the 90g that had only plant tabs, and both tanks were side by side in the same room with identical light, water, plant species (swords, crypts), etc. > > Algae is present but in my mind at a reasonable natural level. I think the key to algae control is the correct balance of light and nutrients for the plants. If the light is greater than the available nutrients, plants can't use it and algae will because algae is better able to obtain carbon from carbonates than plants. The lights are on 13 hours a day, and there is diffused daylight from a window. I have algae-eating fish (1 Farlowella only in the 70g; 1 Whiptail cat, 3 Headstanders (Chilodus punctatus) and 6 Ottocinclus in the 90g) plus pond snails and Malaysian trumpet snails to handle the normal green (or brown) algae. Brush algae is present on the wood, and some plant leaves; I remove the leaf if it gets too much. > > I agree with you on the simple approach. I use heaters because I need them in this west coast temperate climate, and I have an Eheim Pro canister filter on each tank to circulate the water slowly and provide mechanical filtration. I never use chemical filtration, that is what the plants do best. I rinse the filter pad (the white wool one) every month or so to keep it from clogging, and replace it when it begins to fall apart. I never replace the media, which is one chamber of lava rock and one chamber of ceramic disks, I rinse them maybe every 4-6 months. This has worked for me for 15-20 years. I am blessed with very soft slightly acidic (pH 6.8) tap water, ideal for SA fish, and I have a small nylon bag of dolomite (about 1/2 a cup I think) in the top chamber of each filter just to add some mineral and keep the pH above 6.0; without this is has dropped below 6.0 and I just prefer to keep it a bit higher. Right now it runs 6.2 to 6.5 with the diurnal variation. Temp is constant 25.5C (78F). > > Photo of each tank is attached. These have been set up since last October when I moved them into a different room. I took these photos yesterday; whenever I change something in the tank I take photos just for a record, and I rearranged the left side of the 70g two weeks ago. Also a photo of the 33g I had last fall; this tank has one 25w Life-Glo tube, same liquid fertilization and regular gravel, no additives, a small corner sponge filter. The main plant in this tank was an Anubias nana that I bought more than 8 years ago; it was in the back corner of the 90g then, and it just grew slowly but steadily, and last September I broke it apart and used it to aquascape the 33g. There are crypts on the bottom, and floating Ceratopteris (water sprite) that came out of the old 90g. > > Feel free to comment or ask further. Best wishes, Byron. > > > ----- Original Message ----- From: "aaron102272" > Sent: Thursday, June 25, 2009 1:23 PM > Subject: Byron ~ Re: Co2 & Planted Tank?'s (was Re: Flourish products) > > > Hi Byron, > > That is a lot of good information, thank you. > > So, you are not currently using any added Co2? did you ever add Co2? > And the regular Flourish (not Excel) is the only added fertilizer besides the > tabs? > > You mentioned - "CO2 is provided by the respiration of the fish,..." > How stocked are your tanks for the fish to create adequate Co2 levels? > I currently only have 11 Neons and 3 Indian algae Eaters (as well as a bunch of > Malaysian Trumpet and Nerite snails - do they create Co2 also?) in the 55 > Gallon, there used to be several dozen livebeares back when the plants were > growing really well, maybe they were making enough Co2? > > Do you recommend or use a particular type of light? > > What kind of Substrate? > > That sounds really simple and I like like simple, it is way to easy to over > complicate things and really difficult to undue the complications i.e. algae. > > Do you have any pictures of the planted Tanks? > > Thanks Again, > Aaron >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 41518	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 6/27/2009
Subject: Rams! and LFS rant.

Well my LFS got Rams in stock again, they look like the same kind as last time, though I'm not sure if they're really bolivian rams or not ;) LOL. They aren't for sale yet though, they just got them yesterday, I was a bit grumpy that I have to find time later next week to come back and hope they still have them in stock :( Guess I will consider another route if that doesn't work out. Some days I hate my LFS. But I did buy a madagascar lace plant/bulb, it's already blooming too. Amber

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 41519	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 6/27/2009
Subject: 55 gallon tank for the Angel's

So the tank stand is finally finished and I would like to get the tank set up for my 2 angel's to spawn away in as much as they want to ;) I want to make it a walstad natural planted tank, I have plenty of gravel, crushed coral, and aired out soil handy to do so. I have one question do I need to put plants in it right away or can I let it sit with water in it for a few days to see if there's any fertilizers in the soil? I don't want another algae bloom. I ordered plants on aquabid but they won't be here until next week. Amber

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 41520	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 6/27/2009
Subject: 55 gallon community tank and crushed coral added results

So after my PWC's the last couple of days and the added crushed coral to the filter my pH now seems to have settled to 7. Yesterday when I tested it was at 6.8. None of the fish seem affected and all I did was add water and crushed coral i didn't add any other chemicals besides the flourish products. All the fish seem very happy actually, no one is showing stress related to pH so I guess the rise was gradual enough. KH now took 3 drops to change colors, which is 50ppm according to the chart... I will test the KH tomorrow and see if it has gone up any more. Also these tests were both done just before lights out, if that matters. I can test again in the morning before the lights come on to see what the pH is. Amber

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 41521	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 6/27/2009
Subject: Re: 55 gallon tank for the Angel's

What do the Walstad instructions say? http://thegab.org/Articles/WalstadTank.html I was just glimpsing through the article again and saw this: "...If the soil is acidic, you can use powdered dolomite lime mixed in. If you have soft water add pelleted dolomite lime, or crushed shells to gradually increase the level of hard water nutrients over time..." It sounds like you should mix some of that crushed coral in with your substrate... now that we know you have soft and acidic water right from the source. The instructions, near the beginning of the article, also say: "...Add a layer of soil and cover it with a layer of gravel and then add water being careful not to disturb the soil. THEN LET IT SIT SEVERAL WEEKS..." (EMPHASIS ADDED) Last time, you weren't even able to wait a day. At least this time, you have at least a week. Further reading, near the end, in the "Putting It All Together" section, DOES NOT talk about letting it sit for several weeks, but does mention siphoning out the initial water if it's cloudy. Test the water after your week of waiting and see what the test results show and you may want to siphon out that first batch of water. It would probably be best to do that anyhow so you only have a low water level when working your plants into the substrate. What does the bag of soil say as far as numbers for fertilizers? Last, but not least, in the instructions, there is always... "Diane moderates The El! Natural forum on Aquatic Plant Central http://www.aquaticplantcentral.com/forumapc/el-natural/" Nothing wrong with getting answers right from the horse's mouth. Don't tell her I just called her a horse. LOL Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Amber Berglund Sent: Saturday, June 27, 2009 8:33 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] 55 gallon tank for the Angel's So the tank stand is finally finished and I would like to get the tank set up for my 2 angel's to spawn away in as much as they want to ;) I want to make it a walstad natural planted tank, I have plenty of gravel, crushed coral, and aired out soil handy to do so. I have one question do I need to put plants in it right away or can I let it sit with water in it for a few days to see if there's any fertilizers in the soil? I don't want another algae bloom. I ordered plants on aquabid but they won't be here until next week. Amber

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 41522	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 6/27/2009
Subject: Re: 55 gallon community tank and crushed coral added results

The rise from 6.8 pH to 7.0 pH over the course of a full day is nothing to worry about. That is the most you would ever want to change your pH as an immediate change but it's OK when fluctuating that much through the course of a day. In fact, it's not uncommon for this to happen. Testing the pH first thing in the morning and then right before lights out can matter for test results, but the lighting shouldn't really affect the GH/KH test results. Did you do these tests at the same time of day or similar time? If you tested the lower number first thing in the morning, it could have been artificially lowered due to higher levels of CO2 in the water. If the second test for 7.0 pH was done near the end of a day, then the CO2 levels would be much lower as the plants would have been using it up all day. Keep monitoring the GH, KH and pH levels over the coming days/weeks and be prepared to remove some of the crushed coral from the filter system if they keep climbing too much... or if the fish start showing stress, since your fish have been acclimated to your soft, acidic water for a while now. While the API test result instructions may have that "0 to 3 drops equals 0 to 50ppm" type instruction, I would start going with each drop equals 1 dH, which is the way that most other GH/KH test kits read. It's a lot simpler that way. Then to convert dH to ppm, simply multiply by 18 (or even 20 for simplicity... although the actual number is 1 dH = 17.9ppm). Using the "20" number makes things simple. 3 drops technically equals 53.7ppm (using 18 = 54ppm, using 20 = 60ppm). Unless you are talking 10 or 20 drops, the number difference is so small that it doesn't really matter. Now, if API had something like that in their instructions, 1 drop = 0-20ppm, 2 drops = 20-40ppm, 3 drops = 40-60ppm, that would be a more realistic conversion range. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Amber Berglund Sent: Saturday, June 27, 2009 11:03 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] 55 gallon community tank and crushed coral added results So after my PWC's the last couple of days and the added crushed coral to the filter my pH now seems to have settled to 7. Yesterday when I tested it was at 6.8. None of the fish seem affected and all I did was add water and crushed coral i didn't add any other chemicals besides the flourish products. All the fish seem very happy actually, no one is showing stress related to pH so I guess the rise was gradual enough. KH now took 3 drops to change colors, which is 50ppm according to the chart... I will test the KH tomorrow and see if it has gone up any more. Also these tests were both done just before lights out, if that matters. I can test again in the morning before the lights come on to see what the pH is. Amber

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 41523	From: ladyjadewindrunner	Date: 6/27/2009
Subject: What plants are best for removal of Nitrites and Nitrates? And other

In my freshwater aquarium, I have been having a problem with very high c03 levels(Between 80 and 100 PPM), however my co2 levels stay low - nearly unreadable. I currently have some live plants - a species of dwarf lily that I am not sure of its proper genus(And how it can be called a dwarf at nearly 8" tall is beyond me.) I also have a Nymphaea Rubra, and several Java Ferns. I was wondering what plants are best at sucking up the Nitrate from my water? Regular water changes can't seem to combat the levels, and I don't over-feed my fish. For referral, I currently have a 20-gallon aquarium, and will soon replace my 20,000K rating bulb(Meant for growing coral and such, but it was the only bulb I could find with ANY K rating at the time and my plants seem to do just fine with it) with an 8,500. I would LOVE to have a very well-planted aquarium, and I figured if I can do that AND keep my water toxins at minimum I would be killing two birds with one stone!! At present I have about 15 guppies in my tank, give or take a few, but will within the next week be trading them in(I've been raising them for 10 years or so, I need a bit of a change...) on Angelfish, and possibly a couple of large Mollies(as they are known to co-exist well, though neither in my experience co-exist well with Guppies! and I enjoy having live-bearing fish in my tank). What plants would be best to acquire to encourage my Angels to breed?... also, if anyone has any ideas as to what fish to pair with Angelfish in lieu of Mollies, I would be much obliged, as live bearers can quickly overpopulate my tank. Also, being as I am a bit new to raising Angelfish, does anyone have any pointers on water parameters? I know they prefer softer water, however where I live the water is very hard, is there anything I can get to reduce to hardness of the water in the tank? (Cannot afford a water softener for the house at present time). Also, my PH range tends to be on the higher scale (test done today read 8.1) and Angels tend to prefer between 6.5 and 6.8 (Although 7.0 would be ideal if kept with Mollies) how can I lower my PH? I know there are products that will raise or lower the PH of an aquarium... but I was wondering if there was any other way to go about it. ANNNNNNNNND lastly (A lot of questions, I apologize) how can I be sure of getting at least 1 male/female when I purchase my Angels? I know there is no real way to sex them until they are breeding, but is there any sort of tip-off as to who's whom? I would like to start off with simply a pair or two of Angels and allow them to breed, however it seems the only way to be definite of getting a male and female is to go to places such as Aquabid where they have proven breeding pairs for auction. Thank you for taking the time to read this, I appreciate any and all advice given :) Sorry for asking so many questions! ~Jade

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 41524	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 6/28/2009
Subject: Re: What plants are best for removal of Nitrites and Nitrates? And o

Lets clarify what you mean by "cO3 levels". While CO3 has been used to designate Carbonate, I'm not sure if this is what you are talking about since the more common term for Carbonate Hardness is KH. If the "between 80 and 100ppm" is for Carbonate Hardness, then this is nothing to be alarmed about and certainly not a problem. This would translate to 4-5 dH which is fine for the majority of fish... and actually preferred by many. How are you testing your CO2 levels? A common way is to use the KH test results, pH test results and water temperature but I wanted to check. Here's a website article that explains CO2 testing and even has a calculator (or chart). http://www.csd.net/~cgadd/aqua/art_plant_co2chart.htm As far as your Nitrate levels, what are your test results showing? Usually, any fast growing plants are best for sucking up nitrogenous and phosphorous pollutants from a tank. Also tell us more about your tank/filter maintenance routine and give us a full list of your test results (ammonia, nitrite, nitrate, pH, temperature, GH, KH, etc.) or any that you have. Ooops.. sorry... as I read more of your post, I see where you posted some more info but when giving test results, try to group them all together so it's easier for folks to see them at a glance. I see you have a very high pH level of 8.1. You need to do a 48 hour Tap Water Baseline test http://goldlenny.blogspot.com/2007/05/find-your-tap-source-water-baseline.ht ml so we can see what you are starting with and then see what your tank's ecology is changing things to. Do you have any filter or substrate additives that would be raising your pH? Your 20G tank isn't really big enough for Angelfish. A 29G tall tank would be about the smallest tank I would try for a single Angelfish and maybe a school of other non-edible fish. Many folks do use 29G tall tanks as breeder tanks for mated pairs of Angelfish. Here is a good Angelfish profile and care sheet http://fish.mongabay.com/angelfish.htm. Scroll down to the second profile on P. scalare, as that is the more common species of angelfish that you will find. You'll see the SC section (Suggested Companions) for recommended tank mates but once again, your 20G really is too small for long term care of Angelfish. If you are planning to upgrade soon, then you could start them in the 20G but I personally like to start the fish off in the proper sized tank so you can give them the proper room to grow so they do not get stunted. You'll see that this care sheet recommends a minimum water volume of 35G for a single adult Angelfish since they grow to 6" long and up to 9" tall (excluding fins). This is why they need a TALL tank and LOTS of water. While they start off as cute little dime or quarter sized fish, they grow MUCH LARGER. If you do a search of the group's recent messages http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife/messages, you'll see that Angelfish have been being discussed AT LENGTH in a couple of other very recent threads, including some very long and very informative posts by one of our members, Ray, who is a LONG-TIME breeder of Angelfish. He also explains several ways on how to sex Angelfish. If you read some of Amber's posts, you'll see that even in a 125G tank, when her Angelfish paired up and mated, they kind of terrorized the rest of the tank and made them all stay at the other end of the tank. This would also be a MAJOR problem for you if you had other fish in with them in an undersized tank like your 20G. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of ladyjadewindrunner Sent: Sunday, June 28, 2009 1:45 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] What plants are best for removal of Nitrites and Nitrates? And other questions. In my freshwater aquarium, I have been having a problem with very high c03 levels(Between 80 and 100 PPM), however my co2 levels stay low - nearly unreadable. I currently have some live plants - a species of dwarf lily that I am not sure of its proper genus(And how it can be called a dwarf at nearly 8" tall is beyond me.) I also have a Nymphaea Rubra, and several Java Ferns. I was wondering what plants are best at sucking up the Nitrate from my water? Regular water changes can't seem to combat the levels, and I don't over-feed my fish. For referral, I currently have a 20-gallon aquarium, and will soon replace my 20,000K rating bulb(Meant for growing coral and such, but it was the only bulb I could find with ANY K rating at the time and my plants seem to do just fine with it) with an 8,500. I would LOVE to have a very well-planted aquarium, and I figured if I can do that AND keep my water toxins at minimum I would be killing two birds with one stone!! At present I have about 15 guppies in my tank, give or take a few, but will within the next week be trading them in(I've been raising them for 10 years or so, I need a bit of a change...) on Angelfish, and possibly a couple of large Mollies(as they are known to co-exist well, though neither in my experience co-exist well with Guppies! and I enjoy having live-bearing fish in my tank). What plants would be best to acquire to encourage my Angels to breed?... also, if anyone has any ideas as to what fish to pair with Angelfish in lieu of Mollies, I would be much obliged, as live bearers can quickly overpopulate my tank. Also, being as I am a bit new to raising Angelfish, does anyone have any pointers on water parameters? I know they prefer softer water, however where I live the water is very hard, is there anything I can get to reduce to hardness of the water in the tank? (Cannot afford a water softener for the house at present time). Also, my PH range tends to be on the higher scale (test done today read 8.1) and Angels tend to prefer between 6.5 and 6.8 (Although 7.0 would be ideal if kept with Mollies) how can I lower my PH? I know there are products that will raise or lower the PH of an aquarium... but I was wondering if there was any other way to go about it. ANNNNNNNNND lastly (A lot of questions, I apologize) how can I be sure of getting at least 1 male/female when I purchase my Angels? I know there is no real way to sex them until they are breeding, but is there any sort of tip-off as to who's whom? I would like to start off with simply a pair or two of Angels and allow them to breed, however it seems the only way to be definite of getting a male and female is to go to places such as Aquabid where they have proven breeding pairs for auction. Thank you for taking the time to read this, I appreciate any and all advice given :) Sorry for asking so many questions! ~Jade

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 41525	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 6/28/2009
Subject: Re: 55 gallon tank for the Angel's

The black gold bag says .05% nitrogen, that's it, nothing else added. It does have perlite in it, but I can scoop it out when it floats up to the surface. I went to the forum to look over instructions again, some people don't wait it just depends on what fertilizers you have in the soil. The last time when I didn't even wait a day the tank was still immediately cycled from the filters so the added nitrogen probably wasn't big enough to add any issues to the bacteria colony. I was considering breaking down the 55 gallon community tank in the future too, once I get the angel tank fully planted with the new plants. Then I will work on getting more plants for another walstad setup ;) Amber Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > > > What do the Walstad instructions say? > http://thegab.org/Articles/WalstadTank.html > <http://thegab.org/Articles/WalstadTank.html> > > I was just glimpsing through the article again and saw this: > "...If the soil is acidic, you can use powdered dolomite lime mixed in. If > you have soft water add pelleted dolomite lime, or crushed shells to > gradually increase the level of hard water nutrients over time..." > > It sounds like you should mix some of that crushed coral in with your > substrate... now that we know you have soft and acidic water right > from the > source. > > The instructions, near the beginning of the article, also say: > "...Add a layer of soil and cover it with a layer of gravel and then add > water being careful not to disturb the soil. THEN LET IT SIT SEVERAL > WEEKS..." (EMPHASIS ADDED) Last time, you weren't even able to wait a day. > At least this time, you have at least a week. > > Further reading, near the end, in the "Putting It All Together" section, > DOES NOT talk about letting it sit for several weeks, but does mention > siphoning out the initial water if it's cloudy. Test the water after your > week of waiting and see what the test results show and you may want to > siphon out that first batch of water. It would probably be best to do that > anyhow so you only have a low water level when working your plants > into the > substrate. > > What does the bag of soil say as far as numbers for fertilizers? > > Last, but not least, in the instructions, there is always... "Diane > moderates The El! Natural forum on Aquatic Plant Central > http://www.aquaticplantcentral.com/forumapc/el-natural/ > <http://www.aquaticplantcentral.com/forumapc/el-natural/>" Nothing > wrong with > getting answers right from the horse's mouth. Don't tell her I just called > her a horse. LOL > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right > side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On > Behalf Of Amber Berglund > Sent: Saturday, June 27, 2009 8:33 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Subject: [AquaticLife] 55 gallon tank for the Angel's > > So the tank stand is finally finished and I would like to get the tank set > up for my 2 angel's to spawn away in as much as they want to ;) I want to > make it a walstad natural planted tank, I have plenty of gravel, crushed > coral, and aired out soil handy to do so. I have one question do I need to > put plants in it right away or can I let it sit with water in it for a few > days to see if there's any fertilizers in the soil? I don't want another > algae bloom. > I ordered plants on aquabid but they won't be here until next week. > > Amber > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 41526	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 6/28/2009
Subject: Re: 55 gallon tank for the Angel's

OK. .05% nitrogen is actually a LOT. If my math is right, and it's late so it may not be, that is equal to 5pph (five parts per hundred), which would be equal to 50ppt or 50,000ppm. Of course, when you mix the soil with the water volume, that would lower the ppm down considerably but it might still be a LOT. Even if the water dilutes it by 100, you're still looking at 500ppm. I would set up the tank immediately, fill it with water and then run all your tests on it for the next week. I'm also wondering if the "nitrogen" that is in the soil is some form of nitrogen that might now show up in it's entirety with our test kits for ammonia, nitrite and nitrate (all three are forms of nitrogenous compounds). I wonder if this might not be the reason that your other Walstad tank is not showing extreme levels of nitrogenous compounds, yet you are getting such good plant growth (and all that algae too)? You would have to do more research about what forms of nitrogen are included in potting soil or is that top soil that you have? Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Amber Berglund Sent: Sunday, June 28, 2009 3:21 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] 55 gallon tank for the Angel's The black gold bag says .05% nitrogen, that's it, nothing else added. It does have perlite in it, but I can scoop it out when it floats up to the surface. I went to the forum to look over instructions again, some people don't wait it just depends on what fertilizers you have in the soil. The last time when I didn't even wait a day the tank was still immediately cycled from the filters so the added nitrogen probably wasn't big enough to add any issues to the bacteria colony. I was considering breaking down the 55 gallon community tank in the future too, once I get the angel tank fully planted with the new plants. Then I will work on getting more plants for another walstad setup ;) Amber Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > > > What do the Walstad instructions say? > http://thegab.org/Articles/WalstadTank.html > <http://thegab.org/Articles/WalstadTank.html> > > I was just glimpsing through the article again and saw this: > "...If the soil is acidic, you can use powdered dolomite lime mixed > in. If you have soft water add pelleted dolomite lime, or crushed > shells to gradually increase the level of hard water nutrients over time..." > > It sounds like you should mix some of that crushed coral in with your > substrate... now that we know you have soft and acidic water right > from the source. > > The instructions, near the beginning of the article, also say: > "...Add a layer of soil and cover it with a layer of gravel and then > add water being careful not to disturb the soil. THEN LET IT SIT > SEVERAL WEEKS..." (EMPHASIS ADDED) Last time, you weren't even able to wait a day. > At least this time, you have at least a week. > > Further reading, near the end, in the "Putting It All Together" > section, DOES NOT talk about letting it sit for several weeks, but > does mention siphoning out the initial water if it's cloudy. Test the > water after your week of waiting and see what the test results show > and you may want to siphon out that first batch of water. It would > probably be best to do that anyhow so you only have a low water level > when working your plants into the substrate. > > What does the bag of soil say as far as numbers for fertilizers? > > Last, but not least, in the instructions, there is always... "Diane > moderates The El! Natural forum on Aquatic Plant Central > http://www.aquaticplantcentral.com/forumapc/el-natural/ > <http://www.aquaticplantcentral.com/forumapc/el-natural/>" Nothing > wrong with getting answers right from the horse's mouth. Don't tell > her I just called her a horse. LOL > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> (Links to any articles referenced in > above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels > and also under Archives by Year, Month) > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On Behalf Of Amber Berglund > Sent: Saturday, June 27, 2009 8:33 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Subject: [AquaticLife] 55 gallon tank for the Angel's > > So the tank stand is finally finished and I would like to get the tank > set up for my 2 angel's to spawn away in as much as they want to ;) I > want to make it a walstad natural planted tank, I have plenty of > gravel, crushed coral, and aired out soil handy to do so. I have one > question do I need to put plants in it right away or can I let it sit > with water in it for a few days to see if there's any fertilizers in > the soil? I don't want another algae bloom. > I ordered plants on aquabid but they won't be here until next week. > > Amber

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 41527	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 6/28/2009
Subject: Re: What plants are best for removal of Nitrites and Nitrates? And o

Ike Lenny, I am not sure what you mean by CO3 levels unless you are talking about CaCO3, calcium carbonate, in which case your readings are not a problem. Your dwarf water lily is a dwarf. If you had a "normal" sized water lily, your 20 gallon tank would not be large enough for one leaf, never mind the many it would want to send to the surface. Well, maybe it would handle just one leaf, upon a bit more reflection. Growing plants will utilize nitrates. While I am sure that some will use more than others, I cannot tell you which those would be, but a faster growing plant would utilize more than a slow growing plant. If weekly water changes are not making a difference in the nitrate levels, along with the plants you already have, we need to take a look at a few things. First, you do not mention what the nitrate level is. You may not really have a problem other than one of perception. While there are examples of tanks with little or no measurable nitrates, this is not the norm. Most tanks will register nitrates once they have been cycled, and continue to do so. While there is literature out there that states that 20 ppm is too high, most fish will not be adversely affected by nitrate until the level is well over 100 ppm. On the other hand, there are a few freshwater species where even 20 ppm is way too much, but they are few and far between (saltwater nitrates are a whole different animal). Next, have you tested your tap water? Does it have any nitrates in it? Tap water can be a source of nitrates in your tank giving you a base level that no amount of water changes will change. If you are using any kind of fertilizer with your plants, this can add to the nitrate load. You mention you have guppies in your tank, but you do not mention whether these are the only fish in your tank, but, it really does not matter, because with the 15 you mention, your tank is actually overcrowded, even following the fallacious 1" per gallon rule. The end result is more nitrates are produced by the cycle. Any excess food, as well as detritus produced by the fish and plants that begin to decay in the tank will also add to the load in the tank. You mention that you did regular water changes. You do not mention how often nor how much. If you do a weekly 10% change, and the water being placed in the tank is nitrate free, that means you will reduce nitrates by a maximum of 10%. This means that you will change a 30 ppm tank to 27 ppm. Ok now, everyone out there who can tell this kind of difference with your nitrate test kits, raise your hand. Anyone? Come on now, don't be bashful. See, can't be done with a simple aquarium test kit. So, if you are maintaining your level, according to your test kit, you are doing well. You are correct that plants will utilize available nitrates. They actually utilize all available nitrogen - ammonia, nitrite, nitrate, pretty much in that order. However, none of the plants you mention are particularly fast growers, so they will utilize less nitrogen over a given period of time than a fast growing plant would. Adding more plants may help you lower your nitrate levels. As for your plan to remove the guppies and add angels and other fish, stop. Think about what you are proposing. A 20 gallon tank is not large enough for a full grown angel, never mind, hopefully, a pair, and adding more fish is even worse. The natural pH range for angels is 6.0-8.0, so, your water is at the high end of their natural range. Again, another place where the literature fails you, as well a popular perception. As Lenny has mentioned, we have a few angel threads going on over the last few weeks, so if you reach back through the archives by logging onto the web site for this list, you will find a lot of information that will help you, particularly pay attention to the posts by Ray W. Attempting to change the pH of your water, especially downward, is not recommended. There are too many things that can go wrong, and the fish will suffer as a result, as well as your pocketbook. You are much better off matching your fish to your water conditions than trying to match your water conditions to the fish. \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of ladyjadewindrunner Sent: Sunday, June 28, 2009 2:45 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] What plants are best for removal of Nitrites and Nitrates? And other questions. In my freshwater aquarium, I have been having a problem with very high c03 levels(Between 80 and 100 PPM), however my co2 levels stay low - nearly unreadable. I currently have some live plants - a species of dwarf lily that I am not sure of its proper genus(And how it can be called a dwarf at nearly 8" tall is beyond me.) I also have a Nymphaea Rubra, and several Java Ferns. I was wondering what plants are best at sucking up the Nitrate from my water? Regular water changes can't seem to combat the levels, and I don't over-feed my fish. For referral, I currently have a 20-gallon aquarium, and will soon replace my 20,000K rating bulb(Meant for growing coral and such, but it was the only bulb I could find with ANY K rating at the time and my plants seem to do just fine with it) with an 8,500. I would LOVE to have a very well-planted aquarium, and I figured if I can do that AND keep my water toxins at minimum I would be killing two birds with one stone!! At present I have about 15 guppies in my tank, give or take a few, but will within the next week be trading them in(I've been raising them for 10 years or so, I need a bit of a change...) on Angelfish, and possibly a couple of large Mollies(as they are known to co-exist well, though neither in my experience co-exist well with Guppies! and I enjoy having live-bearing fish in my tank). What plants would be best to acquire to encourage my Angels to breed?... also, if anyone has any ideas as to what fish to pair with Angelfish in lieu of Mollies, I would be much obliged, as live bearers can quickly overpopulate my tank. Also, being as I am a bit new to raising Angelfish, does anyone have any pointers on water parameters? I know they prefer softer water, however where I live the water is very hard, is there anything I can get to reduce to hardness of the water in the tank? (Cannot afford a water softener for the house at present time). Also, my PH range tends to be on the higher scale (test done today read 8.1) and Angels tend to prefer between 6.5 and 6.8 (Although 7.0 would be ideal if kept with Mollies) how can I lower my PH? I know there are products that will raise or lower the PH of an aquarium... but I was wondering if there was any other way to go about it. ANNNNNNNNND lastly (A lot of questions, I apologize) how can I be sure of getting at least 1 male/female when I purchase my Angels? I know there is no real way to sex them until they are breeding, but is there any sort of tip-off as to who's whom? I would like to start off with simply a pair or two of Angels and allow them to breed, however it seems the only way to be definite of getting a male and female is to go to places such as Aquabid where they have proven breeding pairs for auction. Thank you for taking the time to read this, I appreciate any and all advice given :) Sorry for asking so many questions! ~Jade

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 41528	From: janis_chrystal	Date: 6/28/2009
Subject: new tank

I started a new tank with Dr tim freshwater bacteria for my 20 gal long tank. I will be adding 1 tetra for right now. Our cory catfish had babies and all I can see from time to time is 5 babies. I want to put the tetra in 1st. Our 46 gal tank is overrun with snails, I will take to catfish and babies out when the babies are big enough to catch. kh 3.5 gh 53.7 ammonia 0 ph low 7.2 no2 0 no3 0 is my tank cycled? I have never had a tank with the no3 0 we put Dr tim in 1 day ago. Thank you folks again Janis

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 41529	From: Donna Ransome	Date: 6/28/2009
Subject: Re: new tank

If you only put one tetra in the tank, the bacteria will grow only to support the one tetra and will not be sufficient for the corys. I believe the instructions with Dr. Tim’s say to add all fish at the same time as the Dr. Tim’s. If you don’t, the bacteria you are adding in the Dr. Tim’s will starve (not enough ammonia from the one tetra) before the cories grow up. _____ From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of janis_chrystal Sent: Sunday, June 28, 2009 11:50 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] new tank I started a new tank with Dr tim freshwater bacteria for my 20 gal long tank. I will be adding 1 tetra for right now. Our cory catfish had babies and all I can see from time to time is 5 babies. I want to put the tetra in 1st. Our 46 gal tank is overrun with snails, I will take to catfish and babies out when the babies are big enough to catch. kh 3.5 gh 53.7 ammonia 0 ph low 7.2 no2 0 no3 0 is my tank cycled? I have never had a tank with the no3 0 we put Dr tim in 1 day ago. Thank you folks again Janis [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 41530	From: Donna Ransome	Date: 6/28/2009
Subject: Re: new tank

Also your tank will not be cycled until you get a nitrate reading, but it will take a week or two. _____ From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of janis_chrystal Sent: Sunday, June 28, 2009 11:50 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] new tank I started a new tank with Dr tim freshwater bacteria for my 20 gal long tank. I will be adding 1 tetra for right now. Our cory catfish had babies and all I can see from time to time is 5 babies. I want to put the tetra in 1st. Our 46 gal tank is overrun with snails, I will take to catfish and babies out when the babies are big enough to catch. kh 3.5 gh 53.7 ammonia 0 ph low 7.2 no2 0 no3 0 is my tank cycled? I have never had a tank with the no3 0 we put Dr tim in 1 day ago. Thank you folks again Janis [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 41531	From: Harl Myers	Date: 6/28/2009
Subject: Re: new tank

I am not one of the members that have a lot of experience with fish keeping, though with the help of this group I have been very successful so far. Her is my experience and thoughts on Dr. Tim's. When it works, I hear it works very well, when it does not, you have no way of knowing. The stuff is sensitive to heat and cold. So you never know if the bottle you have has been destroyed or weakened to a point that would be unhelpful. What I did was bring the tank up to level of ammonia, 4 ppm is the suggested level for fishless cycleing. If 24 hours later you have 0 ppm, and 0 ppm of nitrite, I would say you got a good batch of Dr. Tim's and you can add all the fish your tank can hold all at once. If not, you may have gotten a bad bottle of Dr. Tim's. That is my thoughts. I was not successful with Dr. Tim's, but it was the dead of winter, and not a good time to get a quality bottle. However I am a big fan of the fishless cycle, and can state that I am overstocked in a 29 gal. tank, but my ammonia and nitrite stay a 0. So I am going to stay at the overstocked level I am and see how well it works out. I think a lot has to do with how you maintain the tank, and the actual inhabitants. I over filter and I clean the bottom very well. I also have as little gravel as I can get away with. I believe that a lot of the load on a tank can be missed food in the bottom of the tank. With 4 Corys and diligent cleaning, I seem so far to be getting by. I think that the recommended stocking levels make success pretty much a sure thing, and should be followed. However I have to admit that I did not, unintended, and knocking on wood have not had to pay a price yet. Harl On Sun, Jun 28, 2009 at 11:49 AM, janis_chrystal<jan1213@...> wrote: > > > I started a new tank with Dr tim freshwater bacteria for my 20 gal long > tank. I will be adding 1 tetra for right now. Our cory catfish had babies > and all I can see from time to time is 5 babies. I want to put the tetra in > 1st. Our 46 gal tank is overrun with snails, I will take to catfish and > babies out when the babies are big enough to catch. > kh 3.5 > gh 53.7 > ammonia 0 > ph low 7.2 > no2 0 > no3 0 > is my tank cycled? I have never had a tank with the no3 0 > we put Dr tim in 1 day ago. > Thank you folks again Janis > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 41532	From: jan1213@aol.com	Date: 6/28/2009
Subject: Re: new tank

what to do?????? We wanted to get the tetra and baby catfish separated.....any suggestions we also wanted to get the 46 gal snail free, as soon as the babies grew up and we could catch them.....we also have a 10 gal tank for a sink tank....eventually we were going to have the tetra and buy more tetras for the 20 gal long tank. We want to keep the catfish in the 46gal tank and add other fish later. But we feel we need to totally empty and clean the 46 gal tank to rid of snails so we could put the catfish back in.....Thanks Janis -----Original Message----- From: Donna Ransome <djransome@...> To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Sun, Jun 28, 2009 12:02 pm Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] new tank If you only put one tetra in the tank, the bacteria will grow only to support the one tetra and will not be sufficient for the corys. I believe the instructions with Dr. Tim’s say to add all fish at the same time as the Dr. Tim’s. If you don’t, the bacteria you are adding in the Dr. Tim’s will starve (not enough ammonia from the one tetra) before the cories grow up. _____ From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of janis_chrystal Sent: Sunday, June 28, 2009 11:50 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] new tank I started a new tank with Dr tim freshwater bacteria for my 20 gal long tank. I will be adding 1 tetra for right now. Our cory catfish had babies and all I can see from time to time is 5 babies. I want to put the tetra in 1st. Our 46 gal tank is overrun with snails, I will take to catfish and babies out when the babies are big enough to catch. kh 3.5 gh 53.7 ammonia 0 ph low 7.2 no2 0 no3 0 is my tank cycled? I have never had a tank with the no3 0 we put Dr tim in 1 day ago. Thank you folks again Janis [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 41533	From: Harl Myers	Date: 6/28/2009
Subject: Re: new tank

Well, it looks like you have plenty of cycled filters to get live bacteria from. You never needed Dr. Tim's stuff to begin with. So with ample media from previously cycled tanks, you could add fish and if Dr. Tim's was a good bottle, you just went into over kill. If it was not, well your bases are covered. On Sun, Jun 28, 2009 at 12:45 PM, <jan1213@...> wrote: > > > what to do?????? We wanted to get the tetra and baby catfish > separated.....any suggestions we also wanted to get the 46 gal snail > free, as soon as the babies grew up and we could catch them.....we also > have a 10 gal tank for a sink tank....eventually we were going to have > the tetra and buy more tetras for the 20 gal long tank. We want to keep > the catfish in the 46gal tank and add other fish later. But we feel we > need to totally empty and clean the 46 gal tank to rid of snails so we > could put the catfish back in.....Thanks Janis > > -----Original Message----- > From: Donna Ransome <djransome@...> > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Sent: Sun, Jun 28, 2009 12:02 pm > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] new tank > > If you only put one tetra in the tank, the bacteria will grow only to > > support the one tetra and will not be sufficient for the corys. I > believe > > the instructions with Dr. Tim’s say to add all fish at the same time as > the > > Dr. Tim’s. If you don’t, the bacteria you are adding in the Dr. Tim’s > will > > starve (not enough ammonia from the one tetra) before the cories grow > up. > > _____ > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] > On > > Behalf Of janis_chrystal > > Sent: Sunday, June 28, 2009 11:50 AM > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > Subject: [AquaticLife] new tank > > I started a new tank with Dr tim freshwater bacteria for my 20 gal long > > tank. I will be adding 1 tetra for right now. Our cory catfish had > babies > > and all I can see from time to time is 5 babies. I want to put the > tetra in > > 1st. Our 46 gal tank is overrun with snails, I will take to catfish and > > babies out when the babies are big enough to catch. > > kh 3.5 > > gh 53.7 > > ammonia 0 > > ph low 7.2 > > no2 0 > > no3 0 > > is my tank cycled? I have never had a tank with the no3 0 > > we put Dr tim in 1 day ago. > > Thank you folks again Janis > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 41534	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 6/28/2009
Subject: Re: new tank

No need to tear down the tank to remove snails. There are several ways to accomplish this, though they do take some time, and it would be an ongoing operation. Simplest way is to simply crush the snails found on the glass of the tank, and let the fish have some snack time with them. Gives you fewer snails and them some fresh food. Another method is to simply put in a lettuce leaf in the tank at night when you go to bed. When you get up, go to the tank and remove the lettuce, and snails, from the tank. Of course, you can use both options at the same time as well. Keeping an eye out for masses of snail eggs, and removing them when you see them will also help prevent future generations from starting in your tank. If these are the pond snails that you have--small and dark brown shells, you'll find the eggs mostly in the plants at points where leaves connect or there are branches in the stems. Once you have some practice at spotting them, you'll get much better at controlling the population. Depending on the number of snails, you'll not notice a big drop in the population immediately, but it will be a slow and gradual drop over time. You can catch and move your cory fry to the new tank at any time. The best way may be to place a container in the tank at on the gravel, and herd the corys into it, scooping them, and water, up to move to the new tank. \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of jan1213@... Sent: Sunday, June 28, 2009 12:46 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] new tank what to do?????? We wanted to get the tetra and baby catfish separated.....any suggestions we also wanted to get the 46 gal snail free, as soon as the babies grew up and we could catch them.....we also have a 10 gal tank for a sink tank....eventually we were going to have the tetra and buy more tetras for the 20 gal long tank. We want to keep the catfish in the 46gal tank and add other fish later. But we feel we need to totally empty and clean the 46 gal tank to rid of snails so we could put the catfish back in.....Thanks Janis -----Original Message----- From: Donna Ransome <djransome@...> To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Sun, Jun 28, 2009 12:02 pm Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] new tank If you only put one tetra in the tank, the bacteria will grow only to support the one tetra and will not be sufficient for the corys. I believe the instructions with Dr. Tim’s say to add all fish at the same time as the Dr. Tim’s. If you don’t, the bacteria you are adding in the Dr. Tim’s will starve (not enough ammonia from the one tetra) before the cories grow up. _____ From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of janis_chrystal Sent: Sunday, June 28, 2009 11:50 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] new tank I started a new tank with Dr tim freshwater bacteria for my 20 gal long tank. I will be adding 1 tetra for right now. Our cory catfish had babies and all I can see from time to time is 5 babies. I want to put the tetra in 1st. Our 46 gal tank is overrun with snails, I will take to catfish and babies out when the babies are big enough to catch. kh 3.5 gh 53.7 ammonia 0 ph low 7.2 no2 0 no3 0 is my tank cycled? I have never had a tank with the no3 0 we put Dr tim in 1 day ago. Thank you folks again Janis

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 41535	From: Harl Myers	Date: 6/28/2009
Subject: Re: Rams! and LFS rant.

Being a good customer, could you not just pay ahead for a pair, and if they do not last to sale, get a refund. If 2 make it to sale, the could be marked as sold. That way you get yours... On Sat, Jun 27, 2009 at 9:20 PM, Amber Berglund<amber@...> wrote: > > > Well my LFS got Rams in stock again, they look like the same kind as > last time, though I'm not sure if they're really bolivian rams or not ;) > LOL. > They aren't for sale yet though, they just got them yesterday, I was a > bit grumpy that I have to find time later next week to come back and > hope they still have them in stock :( Guess I will consider another > route if that doesn't work out. > Some days I hate my LFS. > But I did buy a madagascar lace plant/bulb, it's already blooming too. > > Amber > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 41536	From: bill 1433	Date: 6/28/2009
Subject: Re: new tank

Hi Janis,   I have always found working with fry can be a daunting task but here are some ideas and tricks that I used.  Dr's. Foster and Smith do sell baby or fry nets but seeing and catching the little buggers can be a challenge.  What I did was use some air-line to suck them up and into a container for a move.  If the fry are too big for that, simply get a piece of larger diameter tubing.  A good place to find it would be your local hardware or Lowe's store.  1/4 inch is a good size for working with fry..   Bill --- On Sun, 6/28/09, jan1213@... <jan1213@...> wrote: From: jan1213@... <jan1213@...> Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] new tank To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Date: Sunday, June 28, 2009, 12:45 PM what to do?????? We wanted to get the tetra and baby catfish separated.....any suggestions   we also wanted to get the 46 gal snail free, as soon as the babies grew up and we could catch them.....we also have a 10 gal tank for a sink tank....eventually we were going to have the tetra and buy more tetras for the 20 gal long tank. We want to keep the catfish in the 46gal tank and add other fish later. But we feel we need to totally empty and clean the 46 gal tank to rid of snails so we could put the catfish back in.....Thanks   Janis -----Original Message----- From: Donna Ransome <djransome@...> To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Sun, Jun 28, 2009 12:02 pm Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] new tank If you only put one tetra in the tank, the bacteria will grow only to support the one tetra and will not be sufficient for the corys.  I believe the instructions with Dr. Tim’s say to add all fish at the same time as the Dr. Tim’s.  If you don’t, the bacteria you are adding in the Dr. Tim’s will starve (not enough ammonia from the one tetra) before the cories grow up. _____ From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of janis_chrystal Sent: Sunday, June 28, 2009 11:50 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] new tank I started a new tank with Dr tim freshwater bacteria for my 20 gal long tank. I will be adding 1 tetra for right now. Our cory catfish had babies and all I can see from time to time is 5 babies. I want to put the tetra in 1st. Our 46 gal tank is overrun with snails, I will take to catfish and babies out when the babies are big enough to catch. kh 3.5 gh 53.7 ammonia 0 ph low 7.2 no2 0 no3 0 is my tank cycled? I have never had a tank with the no3 0 we put Dr tim in 1 day ago. Thank you folks again Janis [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]     ------------------------------------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the home page.  Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com to receive the digest, which includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com for the No E-Mail option where you will still be able to read messages on the group and post replies. Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com to receive individual e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 41537	From: Donna Ransome	Date: 6/28/2009
Subject: Re: new tank

The filters are probably full of snails and snail eggs. -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Harl Myers Sent: Sunday, June 28, 2009 12:59 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] new tank Well, it looks like you have plenty of cycled filters to get live bacteria from. You never needed Dr. Tim's stuff to begin with. So with ample media from previously cycled tanks, you could add fish and if Dr. Tim's was a good bottle, you just went into over kill. If it was not, well your bases are covered. On Sun, Jun 28, 2009 at 12:45 PM, <jan1213@...> wrote: > > > what to do?????? We wanted to get the tetra and baby catfish > separated.....any suggestions we also wanted to get the 46 gal snail > free, as soon as the babies grew up and we could catch them.....we also > have a 10 gal tank for a sink tank....eventually we were going to have > the tetra and buy more tetras for the 20 gal long tank. We want to keep > the catfish in the 46gal tank and add other fish later. But we feel we > need to totally empty and clean the 46 gal tank to rid of snails so we > could put the catfish back in.....Thanks Janis > > -----Original Message----- > From: Donna Ransome <djransome@...> > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Sent: Sun, Jun 28, 2009 12:02 pm > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] new tank > > If you only put one tetra in the tank, the bacteria will grow only to > > support the one tetra and will not be sufficient for the corys. I > believe > > the instructions with Dr. Tim’s say to add all fish at the same time as > the > > Dr. Tim’s. If you don’t, the bacteria you are adding in the Dr. Tim’s > will > > starve (not enough ammonia from the one tetra) before the cories grow > up. > > _____ > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] > On > > Behalf Of janis_chrystal > > Sent: Sunday, June 28, 2009 11:50 AM > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > Subject: [AquaticLife] new tank > > I started a new tank with Dr tim freshwater bacteria for my 20 gal long > > tank. I will be adding 1 tetra for right now. Our cory catfish had > babies > > and all I can see from time to time is 5 babies. I want to put the > tetra in > > 1st. Our 46 gal tank is overrun with snails, I will take to catfish and > > babies out when the babies are big enough to catch. > > kh 3.5 > > gh 53.7 > > ammonia 0 > > ph low 7.2 > > no2 0 > > no3 0 > > is my tank cycled? I have never had a tank with the no3 0 > > we put Dr tim in 1 day ago. > > Thank you folks again Janis > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > ------------------------------------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the home page. Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com to receive the digest, which includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com for the No E-Mail option where you will still be able to read messages on the group and post replies. Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com to receive individual e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 41538	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 6/28/2009
Subject: New Google Feature

This may help ( or really hinder) those looking for basic information on fish for your tanks. Point your browser to http://www.google.com/squared and enter your search term as you normally would. Results are presented in a table format with columns titled "Item Name", "Image", "Description", "Family", "Class", "Genus", and you can add your own columns, with certain ones suggested. This is not a ready for prime time product yet. Some of the searches came up with sketchy results, others with of the wall items, not immediately seen as being related to your search term. There are no alternate spellings given, or other search hints as you see with the normal Google. But, you may have some fun in playing with it to see what comes up. I did a search on angelfish, and all I saw were marine species of angels, not much help when you are looking for something on _Pterophyllum scalare_, the fish normally seen in one or more of many varieties in your home freshwater tank. I searched on Pterophyllum, and got one hit, which was a _Pterophyllum scalare_. (I knew how to do that translation, many of you probably would not). (This one might keep Lenny up all night playing with it <g>.) \\Steve//

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 41539	From: bill 1433	Date: 6/28/2009
Subject: Re: New Google Feature

Go \\Steve// !!!!! Your rollin' buddy! ol' bill --- On Sun, 6/28/09, Steve Szabo <steve@...> wrote: > From: Steve Szabo <steve@...> > Subject: [AquaticLife] New Google Feature > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Date: Sunday, June 28, 2009, 1:26 PM > This may help ( or really hinder) > those looking for basic information on > fish for your tanks. Point your browser to http://www.google.com/squared > and enter your search term as you normally would. Results > are presented > in a table format with columns titled "Item Name", > "Image", > "Description", "Family", "Class", "Genus", and you can add > your own > columns, with certain ones suggested. This is not a ready > for prime time > product yet. Some of the searches came up with sketchy > results, others > with of the wall items, not immediately seen as being > related to your > search term. There are no alternate spellings given, or > other search > hints as you see with the normal Google. But, you may have > some fun in > playing with it to see what comes up. > > I did a search on angelfish, and all I saw were marine > species of > angels, not much help when you are looking for something > on > _Pterophyllum scalare_, the fish normally seen in one or > more of many > varieties in your home freshwater tank. I searched on > Pterophyllum, and > got one hit, which was a _Pterophyllum scalare_. (I knew > how to do that > translation, many of you probably would not). > > (This one might keep Lenny up all night playing with it > <g>.) > > \\Steve// > > > > > ------------------------------------ > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when > replying, Thank You. > ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> > ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> > PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is > NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of > the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new > subject (was re: old subject)" <- > <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. > , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. > > If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of > unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by > clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the home page.  > > Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com > to receive the digest, which includes up to 25 posts at a > time in a single email > > Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com > for the No E-Mail option where you will still be able to > read messages on the group and post replies. > > Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com > to receive individual e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links > > >     mailto:AquaticLife-fullfeatured@yahoogroups.com > > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 41540	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 6/28/2009
Subject: Re: 55 gallon tank for the Angel's

It has worm castings in the soil, they are slow release nitrogen, not sure if that has something to do with it? I will get the tank set up today and start the tests this week to see how the water is. Amber Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > > > OK. .05% nitrogen is actually a LOT. If my math is right, and it's late so > it may not be, that is equal to 5pph (five parts per hundred), which would > be equal to 50ppt or 50,000ppm. Of course, when you mix the soil with the > water volume, that would lower the ppm down considerably but it might > still > be a LOT. Even if the water dilutes it by 100, you're still looking at > 500ppm. I would set up the tank immediately, fill it with water and then > run all your tests on it for the next week. I'm also wondering if the > "nitrogen" that is in the soil is some form of nitrogen that might now > show > up in it's entirety with our test kits for ammonia, nitrite and > nitrate (all > three are forms of nitrogenous compounds). I wonder if this might not be > the reason that your other Walstad tank is not showing extreme levels of > nitrogenous compounds, yet you are getting such good plant growth (and all > that algae too)? You would have to do more research about what forms of > nitrogen are included in potting soil or is that top soil that you have? > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right > side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On > Behalf Of Amber Berglund > Sent: Sunday, June 28, 2009 3:21 AM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] 55 gallon tank for the Angel's > > The black gold bag says .05% nitrogen, that's it, nothing else added. > It does have perlite in it, but I can scoop it out when it floats up > to the > surface. I went to the forum to look over instructions again, some people > don't wait it just depends on what fertilizers you have in the soil. > The last time when I didn't even wait a day the tank was still immediately > cycled from the filters so the added nitrogen probably wasn't big > enough to > add any issues to the bacteria colony. > I was considering breaking down the 55 gallon community tank in the future > too, once I get the angel tank fully planted with the new plants. > Then I will work on getting more plants for another walstad setup ;) > > Amber > > Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > > > > > > What do the Walstad instructions say? > > http://thegab.org/Articles/WalstadTank.html > <http://thegab.org/Articles/WalstadTank.html> > > <http://thegab.org/Articles/WalstadTank.html > <http://thegab.org/Articles/WalstadTank.html>> > > > > I was just glimpsing through the article again and saw this: > > "...If the soil is acidic, you can use powdered dolomite lime mixed > > in. If you have soft water add pelleted dolomite lime, or crushed > > shells to gradually increase the level of hard water nutrients over > time..." > > > > It sounds like you should mix some of that crushed coral in with your > > substrate... now that we know you have soft and acidic water right > > from the source. > > > > The instructions, near the beginning of the article, also say: > > "...Add a layer of soil and cover it with a layer of gravel and then > > add water being careful not to disturb the soil. THEN LET IT SIT > > SEVERAL WEEKS..." (EMPHASIS ADDED) Last time, you weren't even able to > wait a day. > > At least this time, you have at least a week. > > > > Further reading, near the end, in the "Putting It All Together" > > section, DOES NOT talk about letting it sit for several weeks, but > > does mention siphoning out the initial water if it's cloudy. Test the > > water after your week of waiting and see what the test results show > > and you may want to siphon out that first batch of water. It would > > probably be best to do that anyhow so you only have a low water level > > when working your plants into the substrate. > > > > What does the bag of soil say as far as numbers for fertilizers? > > > > Last, but not least, in the instructions, there is always... "Diane > > moderates The El! Natural forum on Aquatic Plant Central > > http://www.aquaticplantcentral.com/forumapc/el-natural/ > <http://www.aquaticplantcentral.com/forumapc/el-natural/> > > <http://www.aquaticplantcentral.com/forumapc/el-natural/ > <http://www.aquaticplantcentral.com/forumapc/el-natural/>>" Nothing > > wrong with getting answers right from the horse's mouth. Don't tell > > her I just called her a horse. LOL > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>> > (Links to any articles referenced in > > above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels > > and also under Archives by Year, Month) > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On Behalf Of Amber Berglund > > Sent: Saturday, June 27, 2009 8:33 PM > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > Subject: [AquaticLife] 55 gallon tank for the Angel's > > > > So the tank stand is finally finished and I would like to get the tank > > set up for my 2 angel's to spawn away in as much as they want to ;) I > > want to make it a walstad natural planted tank, I have plenty of > > gravel, crushed coral, and aired out soil handy to do so. I have one > > question do I need to put plants in it right away or can I let it sit > > with water in it for a few days to see if there's any fertilizers in > > the soil? I don't want another algae bloom. > > I ordered plants on aquabid but they won't be here until next week. > > > > Amber > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 41541	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 6/28/2009
Subject: Re: Rams! and LFS rant.

I tried that tactic, I said, "Can I prepay for any of them?" She said no, "I said I'll buy them without a guarantee then since you just got them" She said no, "I said, but I really want rams and I don't have time to go shopping out here during the week, so I'll be lucky if they're all still here by the time I get back out here..." She said Sorry... LOL Amber Harl Myers wrote: > > > Being a good customer, could you not just pay ahead for a pair, and if > they do not last to sale, get a refund. If 2 make it to sale, the > could be marked as sold. That way you get yours... > > On Sat, Jun 27, 2009 at 9:20 PM, Amber Berglund<amber@... > <mailto:amber%40rose-fields.com>> wrote: > > > > > > Well my LFS got Rams in stock again, they look like the same kind as > > last time, though I'm not sure if they're really bolivian rams or not ;) > > LOL. > > They aren't for sale yet though, they just got them yesterday, I was a > > bit grumpy that I have to find time later next week to come back and > > hope they still have them in stock :( Guess I will consider another > > route if that doesn't work out. > > Some days I hate my LFS. > > But I did buy a madagascar lace plant/bulb, it's already blooming too. > > > > Amber > > > > > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 41542	From: sgriscom_2	Date: 6/28/2009
Subject: Molly questions

I have a tank with mollies and have found two worms wiggling in the tank. They are at least one inch long and red. I was thinking they were anchor worms but I have yet to see any actually attached to my fish. I added aquarium salt and raised the temp. I read this is a good natural way to get rid of most parasites and diseases. My question would be, Are they anchor worms? Another, how long should I keep the temp up? I also have another issue. Every live plant I add gets eaten. I read that mollies won't eat hornwort so I bought one. Well they are eating it, the stems anyway. It looks like they are leaving the leaves to float around. I need a good bushy plant that will offer protection for fry but will not be eaten. Any suggestions?

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 41543	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 6/28/2009
Subject: Re: new tank

You HAVE to add an ammonia source to a tank within 1 day after adding Dr. Tim's One And Only or you will be defeating the purpose of this product. Right now, you are showing 0.0ppm for ammonia, nitrite and nitrate because you DO NOT HAVE an ammonia source. YOU HAVE TO ADD YOUR FISH NOW and you should add a full bioload of fish, ALL AT ONCE, not one fish at a time. If you only add one fish, there will not be enough ammonia from that one fist to feed all of the good nitrifying bacteria that you added with Dr. Tim's product and they will start to die off, defeating the entire reason for cycling a tank with this product. If you are not ready to add a full bioload of fish to the tank, you should not have used all of the Dr. Tim's product. Since you already have used it, you should add a full bioload of fish or start dosing the tank with plain ammonia up to 5ppm per day (3-5 drops per gallon) so that you will continue to feed the nitrifying bacteria until you are ready to add a full bioload of fish. I hope you haven't waited too long to add fish or ammonia. If you choose to test it with ammonia first, use the 3 drops per gallon and then test your tank for ammonia, nitrite and nitrate after 12 hours and then 24 hours and post the numbers for each time period. Re-dose the tank every 24 hours until you are ready to add your full bioload of fish. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of janis_chrystal Sent: Sunday, June 28, 2009 10:50 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] new tank I started a new tank with Dr tim freshwater bacteria for my 20 gal long tank. I will be adding 1 tetra for right now. Our cory catfish had babies and all I can see from time to time is 5 babies. I want to put the tetra in 1st. Our 46 gal tank is overrun with snails, I will take to catfish and babies out when the babies are big enough to catch. kh 3.5 gh 53.7 ammonia 0 ph low 7.2 no2 0 no3 0 is my tank cycled? I have never had a tank with the no3 0 we put Dr tim in 1 day ago. Thank you folks again Janis

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 41544	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 6/28/2009
Subject: Re: new tank

And they get their first adventure on a GIANT waterslide tube. WHEEEEEEEEEE!!!!! Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of bill 1433 Sent: Sunday, June 28, 2009 12:16 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] new tank Hi Janis, I have always found working with fry can be a daunting task but here are some ideas and tricks that I used. Dr's. Foster and Smith do sell baby or fry nets but seeing and catching the little buggers can be a challenge. What I did was use some air-line to suck them up and into a container for a move. If the fry are too big for that, simply get a piece of larger diameter tubing. A good place to find it would be your local hardware or Lowe's store. 1/4 inch is a good size for working with fry.. Bill --- On Sun, 6/28/09, jan1213@... <jan1213@...> wrote: From: jan1213@... <jan1213@...> Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] new tank To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Date: Sunday, June 28, 2009, 12:45 PM what to do?????? We wanted to get the tetra and baby catfish separated.....any suggestions we also wanted to get the 46 gal snail free, as soon as the babies grew up and we could catch them.....we also have a 10 gal tank for a sink tank....eventually we were going to have the tetra and buy more tetras for the 20 gal long tank. We want to keep the catfish in the 46gal tank and add other fish later. But we feel we need to totally empty and clean the 46 gal tank to rid of snails so we could put the catfish back in.....Thanks Janis -----Original Message----- From: Donna Ransome <djransome@...> To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Sun, Jun 28, 2009 12:02 pm Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] new tank If you only put one tetra in the tank, the bacteria will grow only to support the one tetra and will not be sufficient for the corys. I believe the instructions with Dr. Tim’s say to add all fish at the same time as the Dr. Tim’s. If you don’t, the bacteria you are adding in the Dr. Tim’s will starve (not enough ammonia from the one tetra) before the cories grow up. _____ From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of janis_chrystal Sent: Sunday, June 28, 2009 11:50 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] new tank I started a new tank with Dr tim freshwater bacteria for my 20 gal long tank. I will be adding 1 tetra for right now. Our cory catfish had babies and all I can see from time to time is 5 babies. I want to put the tetra in 1st. Our 46 gal tank is overrun with snails, I will take to catfish and babies out when the babies are big enough to catch. kh 3.5 gh 53.7 ammonia 0 ph low 7.2 no2 0 no3 0 is my tank cycled? I have never had a tank with the no3 0 we put Dr tim in 1 day ago. Thank you folks again Janis

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 41545	From: jan1213@aol.com	Date: 6/28/2009
Subject: Re: new tank

I just put the 1 tetra in the 10 gal tank and left the catfish in the 46 gal should I go buy more fish for the 10gal In a message dated 6/28/2009 2:15:04 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time, GoldLenny@... writes: You HAVE to add an ammonia source to a tank within 1 day after adding Dr. Tim's One And Only or you will be defeating the purpose of this product. Right now, you are showing 0.0ppm for ammonia, nitrite and nitrate because you DO NOT HAVE an ammonia source. YOU HAVE TO ADD YOUR FISH NOW and you should add a full bioload of fish, ALL AT ONCE, not one fish at a time. If you only add one fish, there will not be enough ammonia from that one fist to feed all of the good nitrifying bacteria that you added with Dr. Tim's product and they will start to die off, defeating the entire reason for cycling a tank with this product. If you are not ready to add a full bioload of fish to the tank, you should not have used all of the Dr. Tim's product. Since you already have used it, you should add a full bioload of fish or start dosing the tank with plain ammonia up to 5ppm per day (3-5 drops per gallon) so that you will continue to feed the nitrifying bacteria until you are ready to add a full bioload of fish. I hope you haven't waited too long to add fish or ammonia. If you choose to test it with ammonia first, use the 3 drops per gallon and then test your tank for ammonia, nitrite and nitrate after 12 hours and then 24 hours and post the numbers for each time period. Re-dose the tank every 24 hours until you are ready to add your full bioload of fish. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - _http://GoldLenny.http://Gohtt_ (http://goldlenny.blogspot.com/) (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: _AquaticLife@AquaticLife@Aqu_ (mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com) [mailto:_AquaticLife@AquaticLife@Aqu_ (mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com) ] On Behalf Of janis_chrystal Sent: Sunday, June 28, 2009 10:50 AM To: _AquaticLife@AquaticLife@Aqu_ (mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com) Subject: [AquaticLife] new tank I started a new tank with Dr tim freshwater bacteria for my 20 gal long tank. I will be adding 1 tetra for right now. Our cory catfish had babies and all I can see from time to time is 5 babies. I want to put the tetra in 1st. Our 46 gal tank is overrun with snails, I will take to catfish and babies out when the babies are big enough to catch. kh 3.5 gh 53.7 ammonia 0 ph low 7.2 no2 0 no3 0 is my tank cycled? I have never had a tank with the no3 0 we put Dr tim in 1 day ago. Thank you folks again Janis **************An Excellent Credit Score is 750. See Yours in Just 2 Easy Steps! (http://pr.atwola.com/promoclk/100126575x1221323006x1201367222/aol?redir=http://www.freecreditreport.com/pm/default.aspx?sc=668072&hmpgID=62&bcd=Jun eExcfooterNO62) [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 41546	From: Harl Myers	Date: 6/28/2009
Subject: Re: Rams! and LFS rant.

Well, that just sucks! They certainly need some competition... On Sun, Jun 28, 2009 at 1:54 PM, Amber Berglund<amber@...> wrote: > > > I tried that tactic, I said, "Can I prepay for any of them?" She said > no, "I said I'll buy them without a guarantee then since you just got > them" She said no, "I said, but I really want rams and I don't have time > to go shopping out here during the week, so I'll be lucky if they're all > still here by the time I get back out here..." She said Sorry... LOL > > Amber > > Harl Myers wrote: >> >> >> Being a good customer, could you not just pay ahead for a pair, and if >> they do not last to sale, get a refund. If 2 make it to sale, the >> could be marked as sold. That way you get yours... >> >> On Sat, Jun 27, 2009 at 9:20 PM, Amber Berglund<amber@... >> <mailto:amber%40rose-fields.com>> wrote: >> > >> > >> > Well my LFS got Rams in stock again, they look like the same kind as >> > last time, though I'm not sure if they're really bolivian rams or not ;) >> > LOL. >> > They aren't for sale yet though, they just got them yesterday, I was a >> > bit grumpy that I have to find time later next week to come back and >> > hope they still have them in stock :( Guess I will consider another >> > route if that doesn't work out. >> > Some days I hate my LFS. >> > But I did buy a madagascar lace plant/bulb, it's already blooming too. >> > >> > Amber >> > >> > >> >> > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 41547	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 6/28/2009
Subject: Re: new tank

That depends on what your plants are for the tank. What species of tetra do you have? What species of catfish do you have? Most, if not all, tetras are schooling fish and should be in schools of six or more but depending on your species, you may not be able to fit six in a 10G tank. Some catfish stay as small as an inch and might need a shoal of five or more. Other catfish like to be the only catfish in the tank. Yet other catfish grow to over 6 FEET long. Here's my (and mainly Hailey's but I've made a few changes over the years) blog article about recommended stocking options for a 10G tank. Read over it for LOTS of 10G stocking options, of fish that are suitable for a 10G tank. Many fish are not suitable. http://goldlenny.blogspot.com/2007/03/haileys-10-gallon-tank-stocking-list.h tml Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of jan1213@... Sent: Sunday, June 28, 2009 1:38 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] new tank I just put the 1 tetra in the 10 gal tank and left the catfish in the 46 gal should I go buy more fish for the 10gal In a message dated 6/28/2009 2:15:04 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time, GoldLenny@... writes: You HAVE to add an ammonia source to a tank within 1 day after adding Dr. Tim's One And Only or you will be defeating the purpose of this product. Right now, you are showing 0.0ppm for ammonia, nitrite and nitrate because you DO NOT HAVE an ammonia source. YOU HAVE TO ADD YOUR FISH NOW and you should add a full bioload of fish, ALL AT ONCE, not one fish at a time. If you only add one fish, there will not be enough ammonia from that one fist to feed all of the good nitrifying bacteria that you added with Dr. Tim's product and they will start to die off, defeating the entire reason for cycling a tank with this product. If you are not ready to add a full bioload of fish to the tank, you should not have used all of the Dr. Tim's product. Since you already have used it, you should add a full bioload of fish or start dosing the tank with plain ammonia up to 5ppm per day (3-5 drops per gallon) so that you will continue to feed the nitrifying bacteria until you are ready to add a full bioload of fish. I hope you haven't waited too long to add fish or ammonia. If you choose to test it with ammonia first, use the 3 drops per gallon and then test your tank for ammonia, nitrite and nitrate after 12 hours and then 24 hours and post the numbers for each time period. Re-dose the tank every 24 hours until you are ready to add your full bioload of fish. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - _http://GoldLenny.http://Gohtt_ (http://goldlenny.blogspot.com/) (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: _AquaticLife@AquaticLife@Aqu_ (mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com) [mailto:_AquaticLife@AquaticLife@Aqu_ (mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com) ] On Behalf Of janis_chrystal Sent: Sunday, June 28, 2009 10:50 AM To: _AquaticLife@AquaticLife@Aqu_ (mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com) Subject: [AquaticLife] new tank I started a new tank with Dr tim freshwater bacteria for my 20 gal long tank. I will be adding 1 tetra for right now. Our cory catfish had babies and all I can see from time to time is 5 babies. I want to put the tetra in 1st. Our 46 gal tank is overrun with snails, I will take to catfish and babies out when the babies are big enough to catch. kh 3.5 gh 53.7 ammonia 0 ph low 7.2 no2 0 no3 0 is my tank cycled? I have never had a tank with the no3 0 we put Dr tim in 1 day ago. Thank you folks again Janis

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 41548	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 6/28/2009
Subject: Re: Rams! and LFS rant.

If Amber's Angelfish ever get down to business and quit eating their eggs/fry, maybe she'll be the competition on that Alaskan island... at least for Angelfish. Do you have a garage with your condo? ;) Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Harl Myers Sent: Sunday, June 28, 2009 1:38 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Rams! and LFS rant. Well, that just sucks! They certainly need some competition... On Sun, Jun 28, 2009 at 1:54 PM, Amber Berglund<amber@...> wrote: > > > I tried that tactic, I said, "Can I prepay for any of them?" She said > no, "I said I'll buy them without a guarantee then since you just got > them" She said no, "I said, but I really want rams and I don't have > time to go shopping out here during the week, so I'll be lucky if > they're all still here by the time I get back out here..." She said > Sorry... LOL > > Amber > > Harl Myers wrote: >> >> >> Being a good customer, could you not just pay ahead for a pair, and >> if they do not last to sale, get a refund. If 2 make it to sale, the >> could be marked as sold. That way you get yours... >> >> On Sat, Jun 27, 2009 at 9:20 PM, Amber Berglund<amber@... >> <mailto:amber%40rose-fields.com>> wrote: >> > >> > >> > Well my LFS got Rams in stock again, they look like the same kind >> > as last time, though I'm not sure if they're really bolivian rams >> > or not ;) LOL. >> > They aren't for sale yet though, they just got them yesterday, I >> > was a bit grumpy that I have to find time later next week to come >> > back and hope they still have them in stock :( Guess I will >> > consider another route if that doesn't work out. >> > Some days I hate my LFS. >> > But I did buy a madagascar lace plant/bulb, it's already blooming too. >> > >> > Amber

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 41549	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 6/28/2009
Subject: Re: Rams! and LFS rant.

Lol, no I have a front porch that's not covered or heated, but I do have an unheated storage unit without power as well ;) I don't think any of those will help me out. The reason we don't have any competition is because there doesn't seem to be a high demand for pet stores on this island, they all end up out of business. Amber Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > > > If Amber's Angelfish ever get down to business and quit eating their > eggs/fry, maybe she'll be the competition on that Alaskan island... at > least > for Angelfish. Do you have a garage with your condo? ;) > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right > side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On > Behalf Of Harl Myers > Sent: Sunday, June 28, 2009 1:38 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Rams! and LFS rant. > > Well, that just sucks! They certainly need some competition... > > On Sun, Jun 28, 2009 at 1:54 PM, Amber Berglund<amber@... > <mailto:amber%40rose-fields.com>> > wrote: > > > > > > I tried that tactic, I said, "Can I prepay for any of them?" She said > > no, "I said I'll buy them without a guarantee then since you just got > > them" She said no, "I said, but I really want rams and I don't have > > time to go shopping out here during the week, so I'll be lucky if > > they're all still here by the time I get back out here..." She said > > Sorry... LOL > > > > Amber > > > > Harl Myers wrote: > >> > >> > >> Being a good customer, could you not just pay ahead for a pair, and > >> if they do not last to sale, get a refund. If 2 make it to sale, the > >> could be marked as sold. That way you get yours... > >> > >> On Sat, Jun 27, 2009 at 9:20 PM, Amber > Berglund<amber@... <mailto:amber%40rose-fields.com> > >> <mailto:amber%40rose-fields.com>> wrote: > >> > > >> > > >> > Well my LFS got Rams in stock again, they look like the same kind > >> > as last time, though I'm not sure if they're really bolivian rams > >> > or not ;) LOL. > >> > They aren't for sale yet though, they just got them yesterday, I > >> > was a bit grumpy that I have to find time later next week to come > >> > back and hope they still have them in stock :( Guess I will > >> > consider another route if that doesn't work out. > >> > Some days I hate my LFS. > >> > But I did buy a madagascar lace plant/bulb, it's already blooming > too. > >> > > >> > Amber > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 41550	From: bill 1433	Date: 6/28/2009
Subject: Re: Rams! and LFS rant.

Then there only seems to be one real answer?  Create high demand! How?  Have some folks over to look at your beautiful tanks!  Especially that 125.   I'll never forget the fist time I saw one.  Even though, with the size of our current house, I could never have one, it does not stop me from dreaming about it.  People that don't know much about fish or how they are cared for really enjoy seeing a beautiful tank setup and running.  After that first look, stand by for the questions!  Remember that fish do not need to be let out or walked. They don't need their litter boxes changed either.. The first question us usually: Can I have one of those in our house?  This is also good if the people have children.  Once there is an interest, some smart guy is going to figure a way to make a buck and capitalize on it, count on that!  It's what made this country great.   Bill --- On Sun, 6/28/09, Amber Berglund <amber@...> wrote: From: Amber Berglund <amber@...> Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Rams! and LFS rant. To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Date: Sunday, June 28, 2009, 3:47 PM Lol, no I have a front porch that's not covered or heated, but I do have an unheated storage unit without power as well ;) I don't think any of those will help me out. The reason we don't have any competition is because there doesn't seem to be a high demand for pet stores on this island, they all end up out of business. Amber Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > > > If Amber's Angelfish ever get down to business and quit eating their > eggs/fry, maybe she'll be the competition on that Alaskan island... at > least > for Angelfish. Do you have a garage with your condo? ;) > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right > side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On > Behalf Of Harl Myers > Sent: Sunday, June 28, 2009 1:38 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Rams! and LFS rant. > > Well, that just sucks! They certainly need some competition... > > On Sun, Jun 28, 2009 at 1:54 PM, Amber Berglund<amber@... > <mailto:amber%40rose-fields.com>> > wrote: > > > > > > I tried that tactic, I said, "Can I prepay for any of them?" She said > > no, "I said I'll buy them without a guarantee then since you just got > > them" She said no, "I said, but I really want rams and I don't have > > time to go shopping out here during the week, so I'll be lucky if > > they're all still here by the time I get back out here..." She said > > Sorry... LOL > > > > Amber > > > > Harl Myers wrote: > >> > >> > >> Being a good customer, could you not just pay ahead for a pair, and > >> if they do not last to sale, get a refund. If 2 make it to sale, the > >> could be marked as sold. That way you get yours... > >> > >> On Sat, Jun 27, 2009 at 9:20 PM, Amber > Berglund<amber@... <mailto:amber%40rose-fields.com> > >> <mailto:amber%40rose-fields.com>> wrote: > >> > > >> > > >> > Well my LFS got Rams in stock again, they look like the same kind > >> > as last time, though I'm not sure if they're really bolivian rams > >> > or not ;) LOL. > >> > They aren't for sale yet though, they just got them yesterday, I > >> > was a bit grumpy that I have to find time later next week to come > >> > back and hope they still have them in stock :( Guess I will > >> > consider another route if that doesn't work out. > >> > Some days I hate my LFS. > >> > But I did buy a madagascar lace plant/bulb, it's already blooming > too. > >> > > >> > Amber > > ------------------------------------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the home page.  Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com to receive the digest, which includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com for the No E-Mail option where you will still be able to read messages on the group and post replies. Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com to receive individual e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 41551	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 6/28/2009
Subject: Dwarf Cichlid lovers... the Cockatoo Cichlid

I was just browsing the June 2009 issue of TFH (Tropical Fish Hobbyist magazine) and in the Q & A section, someone asked about the "Cockatoo Cichlid". TFH included a nice picture of a male and it was a really nice looking fish so I was curious why there's not much talk about them and I don't recall hearing about them before. The front part of their dorsal fin perks up like a cockatoo's head feathers, thus the name. I did a Google of "apistogramma cacatuoides" and found a few good profiles and pics. NICE PICS - http://www.petshop-zoomania.com/CICHLIDS/Apistogramma%20cacatuoides%20%27Sup er%20Red%27.jpg This pic looks like they used filters on the camera to add or make the fish look purple but I figured Amber would like them. ;-) http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/archive/1/19/20080326203158!Ap istogramma_cacatuoides.jpg Good Profiles on them. http://www.dwarfcichlid.com/Apistogramma_cacatuoides.php http://www.cichlid-forum.com/articles/apistogramma_cacatuoides.php http://www.cichlid-forum.com/articles/apistogramma_cacatuoides2.php http://fish.mongabay.com/species/Apistogramma_cacatuoides.html Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month)

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 41552	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 6/28/2009
Subject: Re: Rams! and LFS rant.

SHhhhhhh Bill. Someone in D.C. might hear you and come up with the "Fish Tax". They're trying to tax every thing else that made this country great. And I can't believe you used the "C" word.... "capitalize" (as in capitalism)... don't you know the "S" word is the new buzz word in D.C.? Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of bill 1433 Sent: Sunday, June 28, 2009 3:17 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Rams! and LFS rant. Then there only seems to be one real answer? Create high demand! How?  Have some folks over to look at your beautiful tanks!  Especially that 125.   I'll never forget the fist time I saw one.  Even though, with the size of our current house, I could never have one, it does not stop me from dreaming about it.  People that don't know much about fish or how they are cared for really enjoy seeing a beautiful tank setup and running.  After that first look, stand by for the questions!  Remember that fish do not need to be let out or walked. They don't need their litter boxes changed either.. The first question us usually: Can I have one of those in our house?  This is also good if the people have children.  Once there is an interest, some smart guy is going to figure a way to make a buck and capitalize on it, count on that!  It's what made this country great.   Bill --- On Sun, 6/28/09, Amber Berglund <amber@...> wrote: From: Amber Berglund <amber@...> Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Rams! and LFS rant. To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Date: Sunday, June 28, 2009, 3:47 PM Lol, no I have a front porch that's not covered or heated, but I do have an unheated storage unit without power as well ;) I don't think any of those will help me out. The reason we don't have any competition is because there doesn't seem to be a high demand for pet stores on this island, they all end up out of business. Amber Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > > > If Amber's Angelfish ever get down to business and quit eating their > eggs/fry, maybe she'll be the competition on that Alaskan island... at > least for Angelfish. Do you have a garage with your condo? ;) > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> (Links to any articles referenced in > above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels > and also under Archives by Year, Month) > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On Behalf Of Harl Myers > Sent: Sunday, June 28, 2009 1:38 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Rams! and LFS rant. > > Well, that just sucks! They certainly need some competition... > > On Sun, Jun 28, 2009 at 1:54 PM, Amber Berglund<amber@... > <mailto:amber%40rose-fields.com>> > wrote: > > > > > > I tried that tactic, I said, "Can I prepay for any of them?" She > > said no, "I said I'll buy them without a guarantee then since you > > just got them" She said no, "I said, but I really want rams and I > > don't have time to go shopping out here during the week, so I'll be > > lucky if they're all still here by the time I get back out here..." > > She said Sorry... LOL > > > > Amber > > > > Harl Myers wrote: > >> > >> > >> Being a good customer, could you not just pay ahead for a pair, and > >> if they do not last to sale, get a refund. If 2 make it to sale, > >> the could be marked as sold. That way you get yours... > >> > >> On Sat, Jun 27, 2009 at 9:20 PM, Amber > Berglund<amber@... <mailto:amber%40rose-fields.com> > >> <mailto:amber%40rose-fields.com>> wrote: > >> > > >> > > >> > Well my LFS got Rams in stock again, they look like the same kind > >> > as last time, though I'm not sure if they're really bolivian rams > >> > or not ;) LOL. > >> > They aren't for sale yet though, they just got them yesterday, I > >> > was a bit grumpy that I have to find time later next week to come > >> > back and hope they still have them in stock :( Guess I will > >> > consider another route if that doesn't work out. > >> > Some days I hate my LFS. > >> > But I did buy a madagascar lace plant/bulb, it's already blooming > too. > >> > > >> > Amber

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 41553	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 6/28/2009
Subject: Re: Rams! and LFS rant.

I actually have a person who might want some of my numerous platy baby's once they're a bit bigger, I swear the platy's are trying to fill up the 125 gallon tank ;) Good thing I didn't get Molly's, LOL. Amber bill 1433 wrote: > > > > Then there only seems to be one real answer? > Create high demand! > How? Have some folks over to look at your beautiful tanks! > Especially that 125. > > I'll never forget the fist time I saw one. Even though, with the size > of our current house, I could never have one, it does not stop me from > dreaming about it. People that don't know much about fish or how they > are cared for really enjoy seeing a beautiful tank setup and running. > After that first look, stand by for the questions! Remember that fish > do not need to be let out or walked. They don't need their litter > boxes changed either.. > > The first question us usually: Can I have one of those in our house? > This is also good if the people have children. Once there is an > interest, some smart guy is going to figure a way to make a buck and > capitalize on it, count on that! It's what made this country great. > > Bill > > --- On Sun, 6/28/09, Amber Berglund <amber@... > <mailto:amber%40rose-fields.com>> wrote: > > From: Amber Berglund <amber@... > <mailto:amber%40rose-fields.com>> > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Rams! and LFS rant. > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Date: Sunday, June 28, 2009, 3:47 PM > > Lol, no I have a front porch that's not covered or heated, but I do have > an unheated storage unit without power as well ;) I don't think any of > those will help me out. > The reason we don't have any competition is because there doesn't seem > to be a high demand for pet stores on this island, they all end up out > of business. > > Amber > > Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > > > > > > If Amber's Angelfish ever get down to business and quit eating their > > eggs/fry, maybe she'll be the competition on that Alaskan island... at > > least > > for Angelfish. Do you have a garage with your condo? ;) > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>> > > (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right > > side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, > Month) > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On > > Behalf Of Harl Myers > > Sent: Sunday, June 28, 2009 1:38 PM > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Rams! and LFS rant. > > > > Well, that just sucks! They certainly need some competition... > > > > On Sun, Jun 28, 2009 at 1:54 PM, Amber > Berglund<amber@... <mailto:amber%40rose-fields.com> > > <mailto:amber%40rose-fields.com>> > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > I tried that tactic, I said, "Can I prepay for any of them?" She said > > > no, "I said I'll buy them without a guarantee then since you just got > > > them" She said no, "I said, but I really want rams and I don't have > > > time to go shopping out here during the week, so I'll be lucky if > > > they're all still here by the time I get back out here..." She said > > > Sorry... LOL > > > > > > Amber > > > > > > Harl Myers wrote: > > >> > > >> > > >> Being a good customer, could you not just pay ahead for a pair, and > > >> if they do not last to sale, get a refund. If 2 make it to sale, the > > >> could be marked as sold. That way you get yours... > > >> > > >> On Sat, Jun 27, 2009 at 9:20 PM, Amber > > Berglund<amber@... <mailto:amber%40rose-fields.com> > <mailto:amber%40rose-fields.com> > > >> <mailto:amber%40rose-fields.com>> wrote: > > >> > > > >> > > > >> > Well my LFS got Rams in stock again, they look like the same kind > > >> > as last time, though I'm not sure if they're really bolivian rams > > >> > or not ;) LOL. > > >> > They aren't for sale yet though, they just got them yesterday, I > > >> > was a bit grumpy that I have to find time later next week to come > > >> > back and hope they still have them in stock :( Guess I will > > >> > consider another route if that doesn't work out. > > >> > Some days I hate my LFS. > > >> > But I did buy a madagascar lace plant/bulb, it's already blooming > > too. > > >> > > > >> > Amber > > > > > > ------------------------------------ > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. > ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> > PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT > important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message > MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- > <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. > > If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of unsubscribing, > you can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My > Membership" on the home page. > > Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:aquaticlife-digest%40yahoogroups.com> to receive the digest, > which includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email > > Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:aquaticlife-nomail%40yahoogroups.com> for the No E-Mail option > where you will still be able to read messages on the group and post > replies. > > Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:aquaticlife-normal%40yahoogroups.com> to receive individual > e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 41554	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 6/28/2009
Subject: Re: Rams! and LFS rant.

Bill, Ever look at her town on Google Earth? She's lucky enough to have that one pet store there for the size of the population on that island. \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of bill 1433 Sent: Sunday, June 28, 2009 4:17 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Rams! and LFS rant. Then there only seems to be one real answer?  Create high demand! How?  Have some folks over to look at your beautiful tanks!  Especially that 125.   I'll never forget the fist time I saw one.  Even though, with the size of our current house, I could never have one, it does not stop me from dreaming about it.  People that don't know much about fish or how they are cared for really enjoy seeing a beautiful tank setup and running.  After that first look, stand by for the questions!  Remember that fish do not need to be let out or walked. They don't need their litter boxes changed either.. The first question us usually: Can I have one of those in our house?  This is also good if the people have children.  Once there is an interest, some smart guy is going to figure a way to make a buck and capitalize on it, count on that!  It's what made this country great.   Bill --- On Sun, 6/28/09, Amber Berglund <amber@...> wrote: From: Amber Berglund <amber@...> Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Rams! and LFS rant. To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Date: Sunday, June 28, 2009, 3:47 PM Lol, no I have a front porch that's not covered or heated, but I do have an unheated storage unit without power as well ;) I don't think any of those will help me out. The reason we don't have any competition is because there doesn't seem to be a high demand for pet stores on this island, they all end up out of business. Amber Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > > > If Amber's Angelfish ever get down to business and quit eating their > eggs/fry, maybe she'll be the competition on that Alaskan island... at > least > for Angelfish. Do you have a garage with your condo? ;) > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right > side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On > Behalf Of Harl Myers > Sent: Sunday, June 28, 2009 1:38 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Rams! and LFS rant. > > Well, that just sucks! They certainly need some competition... > > On Sun, Jun 28, 2009 at 1:54 PM, Amber Berglund<amber@... > <mailto:amber%40rose-fields.com>> > wrote: > > > > > > I tried that tactic, I said, "Can I prepay for any of them?" She said > > no, "I said I'll buy them without a guarantee then since you just got > > them" She said no, "I said, but I really want rams and I don't have > > time to go shopping out here during the week, so I'll be lucky if > > they're all still here by the time I get back out here..." She said > > Sorry... LOL > > > > Amber > > > > Harl Myers wrote: > >> > >> > >> Being a good customer, could you not just pay ahead for a pair, and > >> if they do not last to sale, get a refund. If 2 make it to sale, the > >> could be marked as sold. That way you get yours... > >> > >> On Sat, Jun 27, 2009 at 9:20 PM, Amber > Berglund<amber@... <mailto:amber%40rose-fields.com> > >> <mailto:amber%40rose-fields.com>> wrote: > >> > > >> > > >> > Well my LFS got Rams in stock again, they look like the same kind > >> > as last time, though I'm not sure if they're really bolivian rams > >> > or not ;) LOL. > >> > They aren't for sale yet though, they just got them yesterday, I > >> > was a bit grumpy that I have to find time later next week to come > >> > back and hope they still have them in stock :( Guess I will > >> > consider another route if that doesn't work out. > >> > Some days I hate my LFS. > >> > But I did buy a madagascar lace plant/bulb, it's already blooming > too. > >> > > >> > Amber > > ------------------------------------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the home page.  Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com to receive the digest, which includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com for the No E-Mail option where you will still be able to read messages on the group and post replies. Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com to receive individual e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links ------------------------------------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the home page. Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com to receive the digest, which includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com for the No E-Mail option where you will still be able to read messages on the group and post replies. Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com to receive individual e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 41555	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 6/28/2009
Subject: Re: Rams! and LFS rant.

Heh, very good point there \\Steve//, small island, closed quarters, I'm amazed we have a fish store at all ;) Amber Steve Szabo wrote: > > > Bill, > > Ever look at her town on Google Earth? She's lucky enough to have that > one pet store there for the size of the population on that island. > > \\Steve// > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On Behalf Of bill 1433 > Sent: Sunday, June 28, 2009 4:17 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Rams! and LFS rant. > > Then there only seems to be one real answer? > Create high demand! > How? Have some folks over to look at your beautiful tanks! > Especially that 125. > > I'll never forget the fist time I saw one. Even though, with the size > of our current house, I could never have one, it does not stop me from > dreaming about it. People that don't know much about fish or how they > are cared for really enjoy seeing a beautiful tank setup and running. > After that first look, stand by for the questions! Remember that fish > do not need to be let out or walked. They don't need their litter > boxes changed either.. > > The first question us usually: Can I have one of those in our house? > This is also good if the people have children. Once there is an > interest, some smart guy is going to figure a way to make a buck and > capitalize on it, count on that! It's what made this country great. > > Bill > > --- On Sun, 6/28/09, Amber Berglund <amber@... > <mailto:amber%40rose-fields.com>> wrote: > > From: Amber Berglund <amber@... > <mailto:amber%40rose-fields.com>> > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Rams! and LFS rant. > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Date: Sunday, June 28, 2009, 3:47 PM > > Lol, no I have a front porch that's not covered or heated, but I do have > an unheated storage unit without power as well ;) I don't think any of > those will help me out. > The reason we don't have any competition is because there doesn't seem > to be a high demand for pet stores on this island, they all end up out > of business. > > Amber > > Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > > > > > > If Amber's Angelfish ever get down to business and quit eating their > > eggs/fry, maybe she'll be the competition on that Alaskan island... at > > least > > for Angelfish. Do you have a garage with your condo? ;) > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>> > > (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right > > side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, > Month) > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On > > Behalf Of Harl Myers > > Sent: Sunday, June 28, 2009 1:38 PM > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Rams! and LFS rant. > > > > Well, that just sucks! They certainly need some competition... > > > > On Sun, Jun 28, 2009 at 1:54 PM, Amber > Berglund<amber@... <mailto:amber%40rose-fields.com> > > <mailto:amber%40rose-fields.com>> > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > I tried that tactic, I said, "Can I prepay for any of them?" She said > > > no, "I said I'll buy them without a guarantee then since you just got > > > them" She said no, "I said, but I really want rams and I don't have > > > time to go shopping out here during the week, so I'll be lucky if > > > they're all still here by the time I get back out here..." She said > > > Sorry... LOL > > > > > > Amber > > > > > > Harl Myers wrote: > > >> > > >> > > >> Being a good customer, could you not just pay ahead for a pair, and > > >> if they do not last to sale, get a refund. If 2 make it to sale, the > > >> could be marked as sold. That way you get yours... > > >> > > >> On Sat, Jun 27, 2009 at 9:20 PM, Amber > > Berglund<amber@... <mailto:amber%40rose-fields.com> > <mailto:amber%40rose-fields.com> > > >> <mailto:amber%40rose-fields.com>> wrote: > > >> > > > >> > > > >> > Well my LFS got Rams in stock again, they look like the same kind > > >> > as last time, though I'm not sure if they're really bolivian rams > > >> > or not ;) LOL. > > >> > They aren't for sale yet though, they just got them yesterday, I > > >> > was a bit grumpy that I have to find time later next week to come > > >> > back and hope they still have them in stock :( Guess I will > > >> > consider another route if that doesn't work out. > > >> > Some days I hate my LFS. > > >> > But I did buy a madagascar lace plant/bulb, it's already blooming > > too. > > >> > > > >> > Amber > > > > > > ------------------------------------ > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. > ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> > PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT > important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message > MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- > <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. > > If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of unsubscribing, > you can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My > Membership" on the home page. > > Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:aquaticlife-digest%40yahoogroups.com> to receive the digest, > which includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email > > Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:aquaticlife-nomail%40yahoogroups.com> for the No E-Mail option > where you will still be able to read messages on the group and post > replies. > > Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:aquaticlife-normal%40yahoogroups.com> to receive individual > e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links > > ------------------------------------ > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. > ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> > PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT > important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message > MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- > <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. > > If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of unsubscribing, > you can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My > Membership" on the home page. > > Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:aquaticlife-digest%40yahoogroups.com> to receive the digest, > which includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email > > Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:aquaticlife-nomail%40yahoogroups.com> for the No E-Mail option > where you will still be able to read messages on the group and post > replies. > > Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:aquaticlife-normal%40yahoogroups.com> to receive individual > e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 41556	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 6/28/2009
Subject: Re: 55 gallon tank for the Angel's

Okay I have the tank filled with everything (soil/gravel/crushed coral/and water), and I have the filter running to get any debris out of the water, I netted as much as I could though. How fast will worm castings break down and put out nitrogen? Does anyone know? Amber Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > > > OK. .05% nitrogen is actually a LOT. If my math is right, and it's late so > it may not be, that is equal to 5pph (five parts per hundred), which would > be equal to 50ppt or 50,000ppm. Of course, when you mix the soil with the > water volume, that would lower the ppm down considerably but it might > still > be a LOT. Even if the water dilutes it by 100, you're still looking at > 500ppm. I would set up the tank immediately, fill it with water and then > run all your tests on it for the next week. I'm also wondering if the > "nitrogen" that is in the soil is some form of nitrogen that might now > show > up in it's entirety with our test kits for ammonia, nitrite and > nitrate (all > three are forms of nitrogenous compounds). I wonder if this might not be > the reason that your other Walstad tank is not showing extreme levels of > nitrogenous compounds, yet you are getting such good plant growth (and all > that algae too)? You would have to do more research about what forms of > nitrogen are included in potting soil or is that top soil that you have? > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right > side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On > Behalf Of Amber Berglund > Sent: Sunday, June 28, 2009 3:21 AM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] 55 gallon tank for the Angel's > > The black gold bag says .05% nitrogen, that's it, nothing else added. > It does have perlite in it, but I can scoop it out when it floats up > to the > surface. I went to the forum to look over instructions again, some people > don't wait it just depends on what fertilizers you have in the soil. > The last time when I didn't even wait a day the tank was still immediately > cycled from the filters so the added nitrogen probably wasn't big > enough to > add any issues to the bacteria colony. > I was considering breaking down the 55 gallon community tank in the future > too, once I get the angel tank fully planted with the new plants. > Then I will work on getting more plants for another walstad setup ;) > > Amber > > Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > > > > > > What do the Walstad instructions say? > > http://thegab.org/Articles/WalstadTank.html > <http://thegab.org/Articles/WalstadTank.html> > > <http://thegab.org/Articles/WalstadTank.html > <http://thegab.org/Articles/WalstadTank.html>> > > > > I was just glimpsing through the article again and saw this: > > "...If the soil is acidic, you can use powdered dolomite lime mixed > > in. If you have soft water add pelleted dolomite lime, or crushed > > shells to gradually increase the level of hard water nutrients over > time..." > > > > It sounds like you should mix some of that crushed coral in with your > > substrate... now that we know you have soft and acidic water right > > from the source. > > > > The instructions, near the beginning of the article, also say: > > "...Add a layer of soil and cover it with a layer of gravel and then > > add water being careful not to disturb the soil. THEN LET IT SIT > > SEVERAL WEEKS..." (EMPHASIS ADDED) Last time, you weren't even able to > wait a day. > > At least this time, you have at least a week. > > > > Further reading, near the end, in the "Putting It All Together" > > section, DOES NOT talk about letting it sit for several weeks, but > > does mention siphoning out the initial water if it's cloudy. Test the > > water after your week of waiting and see what the test results show > > and you may want to siphon out that first batch of water. It would > > probably be best to do that anyhow so you only have a low water level > > when working your plants into the substrate. > > > > What does the bag of soil say as far as numbers for fertilizers? > > > > Last, but not least, in the instructions, there is always... "Diane > > moderates The El! Natural forum on Aquatic Plant Central > > http://www.aquaticplantcentral.com/forumapc/el-natural/ > <http://www.aquaticplantcentral.com/forumapc/el-natural/> > > <http://www.aquaticplantcentral.com/forumapc/el-natural/ > <http://www.aquaticplantcentral.com/forumapc/el-natural/>>" Nothing > > wrong with getting answers right from the horse's mouth. Don't tell > > her I just called her a horse. LOL > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>> > (Links to any articles referenced in > > above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels > > and also under Archives by Year, Month) > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On Behalf Of Amber Berglund > > Sent: Saturday, June 27, 2009 8:33 PM > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > Subject: [AquaticLife] 55 gallon tank for the Angel's > > > > So the tank stand is finally finished and I would like to get the tank > > set up for my 2 angel's to spawn away in as much as they want to ;) I > > want to make it a walstad natural planted tank, I have plenty of > > gravel, crushed coral, and aired out soil handy to do so. I have one > > question do I need to put plants in it right away or can I let it sit > > with water in it for a few days to see if there's any fertilizers in > > the soil? I don't want another algae bloom. > > I ordered plants on aquabid but they won't be here until next week. > > > > Amber > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 41557	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 6/28/2009
Subject: Re: Dwarf Cichlid lovers... the Cockatoo Cichlid

Probably because many people do not have them. I seldom see them in the stores so the main source is other hobbyists, and I think that most on this list just have not gotten that far into the hobby yet, evidenced by most discussions about fish being those commonly found in shops. I did have some. Probably about 15-20 years ago, but I was not very successful with them. They were pretty expensive back then. (You know the old saying about the difference between a novice and an expert in this hobby? The difference is in the price of the fish they kill.) They survived, but did not thrive. Too bad. If I could have bred them, I'd have made a ton of money on them <g>. There are a number of varieties available now, and if someone is not already farming them, it should begin in the relative near future. If a fish get s to the point of being farm raised, it has a pretty good chance of living in many tanks under a wide variety of conditions. \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Lenny V. aka GoldLenny Sent: Sunday, June 28, 2009 4:31 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Dwarf Cichlid lovers... the Cockatoo Cichlid I was just browsing the June 2009 issue of TFH (Tropical Fish Hobbyist magazine) and in the Q & A section, someone asked about the "Cockatoo Cichlid". TFH included a nice picture of a male and it was a really nice looking fish so I was curious why there's not much talk about them and I don't recall hearing about them before. The front part of their dorsal fin perks up like a cockatoo's head feathers, thus the name. I did a Google of "apistogramma cacatuoides" and found a few good profiles and pics. NICE PICS - http://www.petshop-zoomania.com/CICHLIDS/Apistogramma%20cacatuoides%20%2 7Sup er%20Red%27.jpg This pic looks like they used filters on the camera to add or make the fish look purple but I figured Amber would like them. ;-) http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/archive/1/19/2008032620315 8!Ap istogramma_cacatuoides.jpg Good Profiles on them. http://www.dwarfcichlid.com/Apistogramma_cacatuoides.php http://www.cichlid-forum.com/articles/apistogramma_cacatuoides.php http://www.cichlid-forum.com/articles/apistogramma_cacatuoides2.php http://fish.mongabay.com/species/Apistogramma_cacatuoides.html Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month)

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 41558	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 6/28/2009
Subject: Re: Dwarf Cichlid lovers... the Cockatoo Cichlid

Yeah, my Google search also included some Google Shopping hits and some were moderately priced around $10.00 to $15.00 each, with some priced as high as $50.00 to $60.00 each (for Orange Sunburst or Double Full Red variants). The $10.00 to $15.00 range isn't an exorbitant price compared to what some folks pay for fish. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Steve Szabo Sent: Sunday, June 28, 2009 4:00 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Dwarf Cichlid lovers... the Cockatoo Cichlid Probably because many people do not have them. I seldom see them in the stores so the main source is other hobbyists, and I think that most on this list just have not gotten that far into the hobby yet, evidenced by most discussions about fish being those commonly found in shops. I did have some. Probably about 15-20 years ago, but I was not very successful with them. They were pretty expensive back then. (You know the old saying about the difference between a novice and an expert in this hobby? The difference is in the price of the fish they kill.) They survived, but did not thrive. Too bad. If I could have bred them, I'd have made a ton of money on them <g>. There are a number of varieties available now, and if someone is not already farming them, it should begin in the relative near future. If a fish get s to the point of being farm raised, it has a pretty good chance of living in many tanks under a wide variety of conditions. \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Lenny V. aka GoldLenny Sent: Sunday, June 28, 2009 4:31 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Dwarf Cichlid lovers... the Cockatoo Cichlid I was just browsing the June 2009 issue of TFH (Tropical Fish Hobbyist magazine) and in the Q & A section, someone asked about the "Cockatoo Cichlid". TFH included a nice picture of a male and it was a really nice looking fish so I was curious why there's not much talk about them and I don't recall hearing about them before. The front part of their dorsal fin perks up like a cockatoo's head feathers, thus the name. I did a Google of "apistogramma cacatuoides" and found a few good profiles and pics. NICE PICS - http://www.petshop-zoomania.com/CICHLIDS/Apistogramma%20cacatuoides%20%2 7Sup er%20Red%27.jpg This pic looks like they used filters on the camera to add or make the fish look purple but I figured Amber would like them. ;-) http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/archive/1/19/2008032620315 8!Ap istogramma_cacatuoides.jpg Good Profiles on them. http://www.dwarfcichlid.com/Apistogramma_cacatuoides.php http://www.cichlid-forum.com/articles/apistogramma_cacatuoides.php http://www.cichlid-forum.com/articles/apistogramma_cacatuoides2.php http://fish.mongabay.com/species/Apistogramma_cacatuoides.html Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month)

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 41559	From: bill 1433	Date: 6/28/2009
Subject: Re: Rams! and LFS rant.

So what! My town is that small we have the two "City Limit Signs" on one post! Bill --- On Sun, 6/28/09, Steve Szabo <steve@...> wrote: > From: Steve Szabo <steve@...> > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Rams! and LFS rant. > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Date: Sunday, June 28, 2009, 4:48 PM > Bill, > > Ever look at her town on Google Earth? She's lucky enough > to have that one pet store there for the size of the > population on that island. > > \\Steve// > > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] > On Behalf Of bill 1433 > Sent: Sunday, June 28, 2009 4:17 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Rams! and LFS rant. > > > Then there only seems to be one real answer?  > Create high demand! > How?  Have some folks over to look at your beautiful > tanks!  Especially that 125. >   > I'll never forget the fist time I saw one.  Even though, > with the size of our current house, I could never have one, > it does not stop me from dreaming about it.  People that > don't know much about fish or how they are cared for really > enjoy seeing a beautiful tank setup and running.  After > that first look, stand by for the questions!  Remember that > fish do not need to be let out or walked.  They don't > need their litter boxes changed either.. > > The first question us usually:  Can I have one of > those in our house?  This is also good if the people have > children.  Once there is an interest, some smart guy is > going to figure a way to make a buck and capitalize on it, > count on that!  It's what made this country great. >   > Bill > > --- On Sun, 6/28/09, Amber Berglund <amber@...> > wrote: > > > From: Amber Berglund <amber@...> > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Rams! and LFS rant. > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Date: Sunday, June 28, 2009, 3:47 PM > > > Lol, no I have a front porch that's not covered or heated, > but I do have > an unheated storage unit without power as well ;) I don't > think any of > those will help me out. > The reason we don't have any competition is because there > doesn't seem > to be a high demand for pet stores on this island, they all > end up out > of business. > > Amber > > > Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > > > > > > If Amber's Angelfish ever get down to business and > quit eating their > > eggs/fry, maybe she'll be the competition on that > Alaskan island... at > > least > > for Angelfish. Do you have a garage with your condo? > ;) > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are > listed on the right > > side, alphabetically under Labels and also under > Archives by Year, Month) > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On > > Behalf Of Harl Myers > > Sent: Sunday, June 28, 2009 1:38 PM > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Rams! and LFS rant. > > > > Well, that just sucks! They certainly need some > competition... > > > > On Sun, Jun 28, 2009 at 1:54 PM, Amber Berglund<amber@... > > > <mailto:amber%40rose-fields.com>> > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > I tried that tactic, I said, "Can I prepay for > any of them?" She said > > > no, "I said I'll buy them without a guarantee > then since you just got > > > them" She said no, "I said, but I really want > rams and I don't have > > > time to go shopping out here during the week, so > I'll be lucky if > > > they're all still here by the time I get back out > here..." She said > > > Sorry... LOL > > > > > > Amber > > > > > > Harl Myers wrote: > > >> > > >> > > >> Being a good customer, could you not just pay > ahead for a pair, and > > >> if they do not last to sale, get a refund. If > 2 make it to sale, the > > >> could be marked as sold. That way you get > yours... > > >> > > >> On Sat, Jun 27, 2009 at 9:20 PM, Amber > > Berglund<amber@... > <mailto:amber%40rose-fields.com> > > >> <mailto:amber%40rose-fields.com>> > wrote: > > >> > > > >> > > > >> > Well my LFS got Rams in stock again, > they look like the same kind > > >> > as last time, though I'm not sure if > they're really bolivian rams > > >> > or not ;) LOL. > > >> > They aren't for sale yet though, they > just got them yesterday, I > > >> > was a bit grumpy that I have to find > time later next week to come > > >> > back and hope they still have them in > stock :( Guess I will > > >> > consider another route if that doesn't > work out. > > >> > Some days I hate my LFS. > > >> > But I did buy a madagascar lace > plant/bulb, it's already blooming > > too. > > >> > > > >> > Amber > > > > > > > ------------------------------------ > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when > replying, Thank You. > ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> > ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> > PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is > NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of > the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new > subject (was re: old subject)" <- > <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. > , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. > > If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of > unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by > clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the home page.  > > Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com > to receive the digest, which includes up to 25 posts at a > time in a single email > > Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com > for the No E-Mail option where you will still be able to > read messages on the group and post replies. > > Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com > to receive individual e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > >       > > > > ------------------------------------ > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when > replying, Thank You. > ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> > ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> > PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is > NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of > the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new > subject (was re: old subject)" <- > <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. > , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. > > If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of > unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by > clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the home page.  > > Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com > to receive the digest, which includes up to 25 posts at a > time in a single email > > Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com > for the No E-Mail option where you will still be able to > read messages on the group and post replies. > > Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com > to receive individual e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > ------------------------------------ > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when > replying, Thank You. > ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> > ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> > PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is > NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of > the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new > subject (was re: old subject)" <- > <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. > , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. > > If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of > unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by > clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the home page.  > > Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com > to receive the digest, which includes up to 25 posts at a > time in a single email > > Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com > for the No E-Mail option where you will still be able to > read messages on the group and post replies. > > Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com > to receive individual e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links > > >     mailto:AquaticLife-fullfeatured@yahoogroups.com > > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 41560	From: bill 1433	Date: 6/28/2009
Subject: Re: Rams! and LFS rant.

Hey Girl be thankful! I have to light candles just to keep the four orphans my son fetched home alive!   A 125 gallon tank full of platys?  Great!   But I really think a 125 full of Rams could beat that hand!   ol' bill --- On Sun, 6/28/09, Amber Berglund <amber@...> wrote: > From: Amber Berglund <amber@...> > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Rams! and LFS rant. > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Date: Sunday, June 28, 2009, 4:46 PM > I actually have a person who might > want some of my numerous platy baby's > once they're a bit bigger, I swear the platy's are trying > to fill up the > 125 gallon tank ;) Good thing I didn't get Molly's, LOL. > > Amber > > bill 1433 wrote: > > > > > > > > Then there only seems to be one real answer? > > Create high demand! > > How?  Have some folks over to look at your > beautiful tanks!  > > Especially that 125. > >  > > I'll never forget the fist time I saw one.  Even > though, with the size > > of our current house, I could never have one, it does > not stop me from > > dreaming about it.  People that don't know much > about fish or how they > > are cared for really enjoy seeing a beautiful tank > setup and running.  > > After that first look, stand by for the > questions!  Remember that fish > > do not need to be let out or walked. They don't need > their litter > > boxes changed either.. > > > > The first question us usually: Can I have one of those > in our house?  > > This is also good if the people have children.  > Once there is an > > interest, some smart guy is going to figure a way to > make a buck and > > capitalize on it, count on that!  It's what made > this country great. > >  > > Bill > > > > --- On Sun, 6/28/09, Amber Berglund <amber@... > > > <mailto:amber%40rose-fields.com>> wrote: > > > > From: Amber Berglund <amber@... > > > <mailto:amber%40rose-fields.com>> > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Rams! and LFS rant. > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > Date: Sunday, June 28, 2009, 3:47 PM > > > > Lol, no I have a front porch that's not covered or > heated, but I do have > > an unheated storage unit without power as well ;) I > don't think any of > > those will help me out. > > The reason we don't have any competition is because > there doesn't seem > > to be a high demand for pet stores on this island, > they all end up out > > of business. > > > > Amber > > > > Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > > > > > > > > > If Amber's Angelfish ever get down to business > and quit eating their > > > eggs/fry, maybe she'll be the competition on that > Alaskan island... at > > > least > > > for Angelfish. Do you have a garage with your > condo? ;) > > > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>> > > > (Links to any articles referenced in above reply > are listed on the right > > > side, alphabetically under Labels and also under > Archives by Year, > > Month) > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On > > > Behalf Of Harl Myers > > > Sent: Sunday, June 28, 2009 1:38 PM > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Rams! and LFS rant. > > > > > > Well, that just sucks! They certainly need some > competition... > > > > > > On Sun, Jun 28, 2009 at 1:54 PM, Amber > > Berglund<amber@... > <mailto:amber%40rose-fields.com> > > > <mailto:amber%40rose-fields.com>> > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > I tried that tactic, I said, "Can I prepay > for any of them?" She said > > > > no, "I said I'll buy them without a > guarantee then since you just got > > > > them" She said no, "I said, but I really > want rams and I don't have > > > > time to go shopping out here during the > week, so I'll be lucky if > > > > they're all still here by the time I get > back out here..." She said > > > > Sorry... LOL > > > > > > > > Amber > > > > > > > > Harl Myers wrote: > > > >> > > > >> > > > >> Being a good customer, could you not > just pay ahead for a pair, and > > > >> if they do not last to sale, get a > refund. If 2 make it to sale, the > > > >> could be marked as sold. That way you > get yours... > > > >> > > > >> On Sat, Jun 27, 2009 at 9:20 PM, Amber > > > Berglund<amber@... > <mailto:amber%40rose-fields.com> > > <mailto:amber%40rose-fields.com> > > > >> > <mailto:amber%40rose-fields.com>> wrote: > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > Well my LFS got Rams in stock > again, they look like the same kind > > > >> > as last time, though I'm not sure > if they're really bolivian rams > > > >> > or not ;) LOL. > > > >> > They aren't for sale yet though, > they just got them yesterday, I > > > >> > was a bit grumpy that I have to > find time later next week to come > > > >> > back and hope they still have them > in stock :( Guess I will > > > >> > consider another route if that > doesn't work out. > > > >> > Some days I hate my LFS. > > > >> > But I did buy a madagascar lace > plant/bulb, it's already blooming > > > too. > > > >> > > > > >> > Amber > > > > > > > > > > ------------------------------------ > > > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when > replying, Thank You. > > > ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> > ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> > > PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that > is NOT > > important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of > the original message > > MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was > re: old subject)" <- > > > <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. > , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. > > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. > > > > If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead > of unsubscribing, > > you can change your delivery option by clicking on > "Edit My > > Membership" on the home page. > > > > Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com > > > <mailto:aquaticlife-digest%40yahoogroups.com> to > receive the digest, > > which includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single > email > > > > Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com > > > <mailto:aquaticlife-nomail%40yahoogroups.com> > for the No E-Mail option > > where you will still be able to read messages on the > group and post > > replies. > > > > Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com > > > <mailto:aquaticlife-normal%40yahoogroups.com> to > receive individual > > e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > > ------------------------------------ > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when > replying, Thank You. > ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> > ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> > PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is > NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of > the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new > subject (was re: old subject)" <- > <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. > , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. > > If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of > unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by > clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the home page.  > > Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com > to receive the digest, which includes up to 25 posts at a > time in a single email > > Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com > for the No E-Mail option where you will still be able to > read messages on the group and post replies. > > Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com > to receive individual e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links > > >     mailto:AquaticLife-fullfeatured@yahoogroups.com > > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 41561	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 6/28/2009
Subject: Re: Dwarf Cichlid lovers... the Cockatoo Cichlid

Man, I see what my problem with them was. The first article you list from cichlid-forum.com lists them as "A Beginner's Dwarf". I never had much luck with all those so-called beginner fish. Drove me nuts, too. "Here, Steve, take these [Aphyosemion] gardneri home with you. You should have a bunch of fry for us in a couple of months." Those are known as the beginner's killifish. I think I got one, at one time, to survive 3 months in one of my tanks. Heck, I'm embarrassed to talk about it. But give me something like _Austrofundulus dolichopterus_, no problem, If I could not get them to breed, they at least did well under my care, go figure. \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Lenny V. aka GoldLenny Sent: Sunday, June 28, 2009 5:11 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Dwarf Cichlid lovers... the Cockatoo Cichlid Yeah, my Google search also included some Google Shopping hits and some were moderately priced around $10.00 to $15.00 each, with some priced as high as $50.00 to $60.00 each (for Orange Sunburst or Double Full Red variants). The $10.00 to $15.00 range isn't an exorbitant price compared to what some folks pay for fish. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Steve Szabo Sent: Sunday, June 28, 2009 4:00 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Dwarf Cichlid lovers... the Cockatoo Cichlid Probably because many people do not have them. I seldom see them in the stores so the main source is other hobbyists, and I think that most on this list just have not gotten that far into the hobby yet, evidenced by most discussions about fish being those commonly found in shops. I did have some. Probably about 15-20 years ago, but I was not very successful with them. They were pretty expensive back then. (You know the old saying about the difference between a novice and an expert in this hobby? The difference is in the price of the fish they kill.) They survived, but did not thrive. Too bad. If I could have bred them, I'd have made a ton of money on them <g>. There are a number of varieties available now, and if someone is not already farming them, it should begin in the relative near future. If a fish get s to the point of being farm raised, it has a pretty good chance of living in many tanks under a wide variety of conditions. \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Lenny V. aka GoldLenny Sent: Sunday, June 28, 2009 4:31 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Dwarf Cichlid lovers... the Cockatoo Cichlid I was just browsing the June 2009 issue of TFH (Tropical Fish Hobbyist magazine) and in the Q & A section, someone asked about the "Cockatoo Cichlid". TFH included a nice picture of a male and it was a really nice looking fish so I was curious why there's not much talk about them and I don't recall hearing about them before. The front part of their dorsal fin perks up like a cockatoo's head feathers, thus the name. I did a Google of "apistogramma cacatuoides" and found a few good profiles and pics. NICE PICS - http://www.petshop-zoomania.com/CICHLIDS/Apistogramma%20cacatuoides%20%2 7Sup er%20Red%27.jpg This pic looks like they used filters on the camera to add or make the fish look purple but I figured Amber would like them. ;-) http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/archive/1/19/2008032620315 8!Ap istogramma_cacatuoides.jpg Good Profiles on them. http://www.dwarfcichlid.com/Apistogramma_cacatuoides.php http://www.cichlid-forum.com/articles/apistogramma_cacatuoides.php http://www.cichlid-forum.com/articles/apistogramma_cacatuoides2.php http://fish.mongabay.com/species/Apistogramma_cacatuoides.html Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month)

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 41562	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 6/28/2009
Subject: Re: Rams! and LFS rant.

The difference is that a delivery truck can pull up to your town. Amber's not so lucky.... it's the price you pay for living on a tropical island... when it's not a frozen tundra. LOL Amber, Is the land across from your island accessible from the mainland or is that just another bigger island... you know, the one where your "International Airport" is located. LOL Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of bill 1433 Sent: Sunday, June 28, 2009 4:28 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Rams! and LFS rant. So what! My town is that small we have the two "City Limit Signs" on one post! Bill --- On Sun, 6/28/09, Steve Szabo <steve@...> wrote: > From: Steve Szabo <steve@...> > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Rams! and LFS rant. > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Date: Sunday, June 28, 2009, 4:48 PM > Bill, > > Ever look at her town on Google Earth? She's lucky enough to have that > one pet store there for the size of the population on that island. > > \\Steve// > > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] > On Behalf Of bill 1433 > Sent: Sunday, June 28, 2009 4:17 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Rams! and LFS rant. > > > Then there only seems to be one real answer? Create high demand! > How?  Have some folks over to look at your beautiful tanks!  > Especially that 125. >   > I'll never forget the fist time I saw one.  Even though, with the size > of our current house, I could never have one, it does not stop me from > dreaming about it.  People that don't know much about fish or how they > are cared for really enjoy seeing a beautiful tank setup and running.  > After that first look, stand by for the questions!  Remember that fish > do not need to be let out or walked.  They don't need their litter > boxes changed either.. > > The first question us usually:  Can I have one of those in our house?  > This is also good if the people have children.  Once there is an > interest, some smart guy is going to figure a way to make a buck and > capitalize on it, count on that!  It's what made this country great. >   > Bill > > --- On Sun, 6/28/09, Amber Berglund <amber@...> > wrote: > > > From: Amber Berglund <amber@...> > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Rams! and LFS rant. > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Date: Sunday, June 28, 2009, 3:47 PM > > > Lol, no I have a front porch that's not covered or heated, but I do > have an unheated storage unit without power as well ;) I don't think > any of those will help me out. > The reason we don't have any competition is because there doesn't seem > to be a high demand for pet stores on this island, they all end up out > of business. > > Amber > > > Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > > > > > > If Amber's Angelfish ever get down to business and > quit eating their > > eggs/fry, maybe she'll be the competition on that > Alaskan island... at > > least > > for Angelfish. Do you have a garage with your condo? > ;) > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are > listed on the right > > side, alphabetically under Labels and also under > Archives by Year, Month) > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On > > Behalf Of Harl Myers > > Sent: Sunday, June 28, 2009 1:38 PM > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Rams! and LFS rant. > > > > Well, that just sucks! They certainly need some > competition... > > > > On Sun, Jun 28, 2009 at 1:54 PM, Amber Berglund<amber@... > > > <mailto:amber%40rose-fields.com>> > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > I tried that tactic, I said, "Can I prepay for > any of them?" She said > > > no, "I said I'll buy them without a guarantee > then since you just got > > > them" She said no, "I said, but I really want > rams and I don't have > > > time to go shopping out here during the week, so > I'll be lucky if > > > they're all still here by the time I get back out > here..." She said > > > Sorry... LOL > > > > > > Amber > > > > > > Harl Myers wrote: > > >> > > >> > > >> Being a good customer, could you not just pay > ahead for a pair, and > > >> if they do not last to sale, get a refund. If > 2 make it to sale, the > > >> could be marked as sold. That way you get > yours... > > >> > > >> On Sat, Jun 27, 2009 at 9:20 PM, Amber > > Berglund<amber@... > <mailto:amber%40rose-fields.com> > > >> <mailto:amber%40rose-fields.com>> > wrote: > > >> > > > >> > > > >> > Well my LFS got Rams in stock again, > they look like the same kind > > >> > as last time, though I'm not sure if > they're really bolivian rams > > >> > or not ;) LOL. > > >> > They aren't for sale yet though, they > just got them yesterday, I > > >> > was a bit grumpy that I have to find > time later next week to come > > >> > back and hope they still have them in > stock :( Guess I will > > >> > consider another route if that doesn't > work out. > > >> > Some days I hate my LFS. > > >> > But I did buy a madagascar lace > plant/bulb, it's already blooming > > too. > > >> > > > >> > Amber

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 41563	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 6/28/2009
Subject: Re: Rams! and LFS rant.

Sure it's accessible from the mainland... from a plane... or a boat ;) LOL. Bill, Where's your city population sign, is it on the same sign post? LOL Amber Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > > > The difference is that a delivery truck can pull up to your town. Amber's > not so lucky.... it's the price you pay for living on a tropical island... > when it's not a frozen tundra. LOL > > Amber, > > Is the land across from your island accessible from the mainland or is > that > just another bigger island... you know, the one where your "International > Airport" is located. LOL > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right > side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On > Behalf Of bill 1433 > Sent: Sunday, June 28, 2009 4:28 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Rams! and LFS rant. > > So what! > > My town is that small we have the two > > "City Limit Signs" on one post! > > Bill > > --- On Sun, 6/28/09, Steve Szabo <steve@... > <mailto:steve%40familyszabo.com>> wrote: > > > From: Steve Szabo <steve@... > <mailto:steve%40familyszabo.com>> > > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Rams! and LFS rant. > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > Date: Sunday, June 28, 2009, 4:48 PM > > Bill, > > > > Ever look at her town on Google Earth? She's lucky enough to have that > > one pet store there for the size of the population on that island. > > > > \\Steve// > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] > > On Behalf Of bill 1433 > > Sent: Sunday, June 28, 2009 4:17 PM > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Rams! and LFS rant. > > > > > > Then there only seems to be one real answer? Create high demand! > > How? Have some folks over to look at your beautiful tanks! > > Especially that 125. > > > > I'll never forget the fist time I saw one. Even though, with the size > > of our current house, I could never have one, it does not stop me from > > dreaming about it. People that don't know much about fish or how they > > are cared for really enjoy seeing a beautiful tank setup and running. > > After that first look, stand by for the questions! Remember that fish > > do not need to be let out or walked. They don't need their litter > > boxes changed either.. > > > > The first question us usually: Can I have one of those in our house? > > This is also good if the people have children. Once there is an > > interest, some smart guy is going to figure a way to make a buck and > > capitalize on it, count on that! It's what made this country great. > > > > Bill > > > > --- On Sun, 6/28/09, Amber Berglund <amber@... > <mailto:amber%40rose-fields.com>> > > wrote: > > > > > > From: Amber Berglund <amber@... > <mailto:amber%40rose-fields.com>> > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Rams! and LFS rant. > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > Date: Sunday, June 28, 2009, 3:47 PM > > > > > > Lol, no I have a front porch that's not covered or heated, but I do > > have an unheated storage unit without power as well ;) I don't think > > any of those will help me out. > > The reason we don't have any competition is because there doesn't seem > > to be a high demand for pet stores on this island, they all end up out > > of business. > > > > Amber > > > > > > Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > > > > > > > > > If Amber's Angelfish ever get down to business and > > quit eating their > > > eggs/fry, maybe she'll be the competition on that > > Alaskan island... at > > > least > > > for Angelfish. Do you have a garage with your condo? > > ;) > > > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>> > > > (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are > > listed on the right > > > side, alphabetically under Labels and also under > > Archives by Year, Month) > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On > > > Behalf Of Harl Myers > > > Sent: Sunday, June 28, 2009 1:38 PM > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Rams! and LFS rant. > > > > > > Well, that just sucks! They certainly need some > > competition... > > > > > > On Sun, Jun 28, 2009 at 1:54 PM, Amber > Berglund<amber@... <mailto:amber%40rose-fields.com> > > > > > <mailto:amber%40rose-fields.com>> > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > I tried that tactic, I said, "Can I prepay for > > any of them?" She said > > > > no, "I said I'll buy them without a guarantee > > then since you just got > > > > them" She said no, "I said, but I really want > > rams and I don't have > > > > time to go shopping out here during the week, so > > I'll be lucky if > > > > they're all still here by the time I get back out > > here..." She said > > > > Sorry... LOL > > > > > > > > Amber > > > > > > > > Harl Myers wrote: > > > >> > > > >> > > > >> Being a good customer, could you not just pay > > ahead for a pair, and > > > >> if they do not last to sale, get a refund. If > > 2 make it to sale, the > > > >> could be marked as sold. That way you get > > yours... > > > >> > > > >> On Sat, Jun 27, 2009 at 9:20 PM, Amber > > > Berglund<amber@... <mailto:amber%40rose-fields.com> > > <mailto:amber%40rose-fields.com> > > > >> <mailto:amber%40rose-fields.com>> > > wrote: > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > Well my LFS got Rams in stock again, > > they look like the same kind > > > >> > as last time, though I'm not sure if > > they're really bolivian rams > > > >> > or not ;) LOL. > > > >> > They aren't for sale yet though, they > > just got them yesterday, I > > > >> > was a bit grumpy that I have to find > > time later next week to come > > > >> > back and hope they still have them in > > stock :( Guess I will > > > >> > consider another route if that doesn't > > work out. > > > >> > Some days I hate my LFS. > > > >> > But I did buy a madagascar lace > > plant/bulb, it's already blooming > > > too. > > > >> > > > > >> > Amber > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 41564	From: bill 1433	Date: 6/28/2009
Subject: Re: Rams! and LFS rant.

Yes Mam!   You must have been here before!   Bill mber@...> wrote: > From: Amber Berglund <amber@...> > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Rams! and LFS rant. > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Date: Sunday, June 28, 2009, 5:43 PM > Sure it's accessible from the > mainland... from a plane... or a boat ;) LOL. > Bill, Where's your city population sign, is it on the same > sign post? LOL > > Amber > > Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > > > > > > The difference is that a delivery truck can pull up to > your town. Amber's > > not so lucky.... it's the price you pay for living on > a tropical island... > > when it's not a frozen tundra. LOL > > > > Amber, > > > > Is the land across from your island accessible from > the mainland or is > > that > > just another bigger island... you know, the one where > your "International > > Airport" is located. LOL > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are > listed on the right > > side, alphabetically under Labels and also under > Archives by Year, Month) > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On > > Behalf Of bill 1433 > > Sent: Sunday, June 28, 2009 4:28 PM > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Rams! and LFS rant. > > > > So what! > > > > My town is that small we have the two > > > > "City Limit Signs" on one post! > > > > Bill > > > > --- On Sun, 6/28/09, Steve Szabo <steve@... > > > <mailto:steve%40familyszabo.com>> wrote: > > > > > From: Steve Szabo <steve@... > > > <mailto:steve%40familyszabo.com>> > > > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Rams! and LFS rant. > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > Date: Sunday, June 28, 2009, 4:48 PM > > > Bill, > > > > > > Ever look at her town on Google Earth? She's > lucky enough to have that > > > one pet store there for the size of the > population on that island. > > > > > > \\Steve// > > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] > > > On Behalf Of bill 1433 > > > Sent: Sunday, June 28, 2009 4:17 PM > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Rams! and LFS rant. > > > > > > > > > Then there only seems to be one real answer? > Create high demand! > > > How?  Have some folks over to look at your > beautiful tanks! > > > Especially that 125. > > >  > > > I'll never forget the fist time I saw one.  > Even though, with the size > > > of our current house, I could never have one, it > does not stop me from > > > dreaming about it.  People that don't know > much about fish or how they > > > are cared for really enjoy seeing a beautiful > tank setup and running. > > > After that first look, stand by for the > questions!  Remember that fish > > > do not need to be let out or walked.  They > don't need their litter > > > boxes changed either.. > > > > > > The first question us usually:  Can I have > one of those in our house? > > > This is also good if the people have > children.  Once there is an > > > interest, some smart guy is going to figure a way > to make a buck and > > > capitalize on it, count on that!  It's what > made this country great. > > >  > > > Bill > > > > > > --- On Sun, 6/28/09, Amber Berglund <amber@... > > > <mailto:amber%40rose-fields.com>> > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > From: Amber Berglund <amber@... > > > <mailto:amber%40rose-fields.com>> > > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Rams! and LFS rant. > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > Date: Sunday, June 28, 2009, 3:47 PM > > > > > > > > > Lol, no I have a front porch that's not covered > or heated, but I do > > > have an unheated storage unit without power as > well ;) I don't think > > > any of those will help me out. > > > The reason we don't have any competition is > because there doesn't seem > > > to be a high demand for pet stores on this > island, they all end up out > > > of business. > > > > > > Amber > > > > > > > > > Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > If Amber's Angelfish ever get down to > business and > > > quit eating their > > > > eggs/fry, maybe she'll be the competition on > that > > > Alaskan island... at > > > > least > > > > for Angelfish. Do you have a garage with > your condo? > > > ;) > > > > > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>> > > > > (Links to any articles referenced in above > reply are > > > listed on the right > > > > side, alphabetically under Labels and also > under > > > Archives by Year, Month) > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On > > > > Behalf Of Harl Myers > > > > Sent: Sunday, June 28, 2009 1:38 PM > > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Rams! and LFS > rant. > > > > > > > > Well, that just sucks! They certainly need > some > > > competition... > > > > > > > > On Sun, Jun 28, 2009 at 1:54 PM, Amber > > Berglund<amber@... > <mailto:amber%40rose-fields.com> > > > > > > > <mailto:amber%40rose-fields.com>> > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I tried that tactic, I said, "Can I > prepay for > > > any of them?" She said > > > > > no, "I said I'll buy them without a > guarantee > > > then since you just got > > > > > them" She said no, "I said, but I > really want > > > rams and I don't have > > > > > time to go shopping out here during the > week, so > > > I'll be lucky if > > > > > they're all still here by the time I > get back out > > > here..." She said > > > > > Sorry... LOL > > > > > > > > > > Amber > > > > > > > > > > Harl Myers wrote: > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > >> Being a good customer, could you > not just pay > > > ahead for a pair, and > > > > >> if they do not last to sale, get a > refund. If > > > 2 make it to sale, the > > > > >> could be marked as sold. That way > you get > > > yours... > > > > >> > > > > >> On Sat, Jun 27, 2009 at 9:20 PM, > Amber > > > > Berglund<amber@... > <mailto:amber%40rose-fields.com> > > > <mailto:amber%40rose-fields.com> > > > > >> > <mailto:amber%40rose-fields.com>> > > > wrote: > > > > >> > > > > > >> > > > > > >> > Well my LFS got Rams in stock > again, > > > they look like the same kind > > > > >> > as last time, though I'm not > sure if > > > they're really bolivian rams > > > > >> > or not ;) LOL. > > > > >> > They aren't for sale yet > though, they > > > just got them yesterday, I > > > > >> > was a bit grumpy that I have > to find > > > time later next week to come > > > > >> > back and hope they still have > them in > > > stock :( Guess I will > > > > >> > consider another route if that > doesn't > > > work out. > > > > >> > Some days I hate my LFS. > > > > >> > But I did buy a madagascar > lace > > > plant/bulb, it's already blooming > > > > too. > > > > >> > > > > > >> > Amber > > > > > > > ------------------------------------ > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when > replying, Thank You. > ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> > ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> > PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is > NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of > the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new > subject (was re: old subject)" <- > <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. > , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. > > If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of > unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by > clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the home page.  > > Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com > to receive the digest, which includes up to 25 posts at a > time in a single email > > Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com > for the No E-Mail option where you will still be able to > read messages on the group and post replies. > > Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com > to receive individual e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links > > >     mailto:AquaticLife-fullfeatured@yahoogroups.com > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 41565	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 6/28/2009
Subject: Re: 55 gallon community tank and crushed coral added results

The last tests were all done in the evening just before lights out. I just did a test for pH this morning after the lights had been on for a couple hours (I forgot to do it before the lights came on). The pH was 7.2 this afternoon. What will cause the pH to raise exactly, is it the CO2? Amber Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > > > The rise from 6.8 pH to 7.0 pH over the course of a full day is nothing to > worry about. That is the most you would ever want to change your pH as an > immediate change but it's OK when fluctuating that much through the course > of a day. In fact, it's not uncommon for this to happen. > > Testing the pH first thing in the morning and then right before lights out > can matter for test results, but the lighting shouldn't really affect the > GH/KH test results. > > Did you do these tests at the same time of day or similar time? If you > tested the lower number first thing in the morning, it could have been > artificially lowered due to higher levels of CO2 in the water. If the > second test for 7.0 pH was done near the end of a day, then the CO2 levels > would be much lower as the plants would have been using it up all day. > > Keep monitoring the GH, KH and pH levels over the coming days/weeks and be > prepared to remove some of the crushed coral from the filter system if > they > keep climbing too much... or if the fish start showing stress, since your > fish have been acclimated to your soft, acidic water for a while now. > > While the API test result instructions may have that "0 to 3 drops > equals 0 > to 50ppm" type instruction, I would start going with each drop equals > 1 dH, > which is the way that most other GH/KH test kits read. It's a lot simpler > that way. Then to convert dH to ppm, simply multiply by 18 (or even 20 for > simplicity... although the actual number is 1 dH = 17.9ppm). Using the > "20" > number makes things simple. 3 drops technically equals 53.7ppm (using 18 = > 54ppm, using 20 = 60ppm). Unless you are talking 10 or 20 drops, the > number > difference is so small that it doesn't really matter. Now, if API had > something like that in their instructions, 1 drop = 0-20ppm, 2 drops = > 20-40ppm, 3 drops = 40-60ppm, that would be a more realistic conversion > range. > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right > side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On > Behalf Of Amber Berglund > Sent: Saturday, June 27, 2009 11:03 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Subject: [AquaticLife] 55 gallon community tank and crushed coral added > results > > So after my PWC's the last couple of days and the added crushed coral > to the > filter my pH now seems to have settled to 7. Yesterday when I tested > it was > at 6.8. > None of the fish seem affected and all I did was add water and crushed > coral > i didn't add any other chemicals besides the flourish products. > All the fish seem very happy actually, no one is showing stress related to > pH so I guess the rise was gradual enough. > > KH now took 3 drops to change colors, which is 50ppm according to the > chart... > I will test the KH tomorrow and see if it has gone up any more. Also these > tests were both done just before lights out, if that matters. I can test > again in the morning before the lights come on to see what the pH is. > > Amber > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 41566	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 6/28/2009
Subject: Re: 55 gallon community tank and crushed coral added results

Oh forgot to say that the KH was 4 drops now. Amber Amber Berglund wrote: > > > The last tests were all done in the evening just before lights out. I > just did a test for pH this morning after the lights had been on for a > couple hours (I forgot to do it before the lights came on). The pH was > 7.2 this afternoon. > What will cause the pH to raise exactly, is it the CO2? > > Amber > > Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > > > > > > The rise from 6.8 pH to 7.0 pH over the course of a full day is > nothing to > > worry about. That is the most you would ever want to change your pH > as an > > immediate change but it's OK when fluctuating that much through the > course > > of a day. In fact, it's not uncommon for this to happen. > > > > Testing the pH first thing in the morning and then right before > lights out > > can matter for test results, but the lighting shouldn't really > affect the > > GH/KH test results. > > > > Did you do these tests at the same time of day or similar time? If you > > tested the lower number first thing in the morning, it could have been > > artificially lowered due to higher levels of CO2 in the water. If the > > second test for 7.0 pH was done near the end of a day, then the CO2 > levels > > would be much lower as the plants would have been using it up all day. > > > > Keep monitoring the GH, KH and pH levels over the coming days/weeks > and be > > prepared to remove some of the crushed coral from the filter system if > > they > > keep climbing too much... or if the fish start showing stress, since > your > > fish have been acclimated to your soft, acidic water for a while now. > > > > While the API test result instructions may have that "0 to 3 drops > > equals 0 > > to 50ppm" type instruction, I would start going with each drop equals > > 1 dH, > > which is the way that most other GH/KH test kits read. It's a lot > simpler > > that way. Then to convert dH to ppm, simply multiply by 18 (or even > 20 for > > simplicity... although the actual number is 1 dH = 17.9ppm). Using the > > "20" > > number makes things simple. 3 drops technically equals 53.7ppm > (using 18 = > > 54ppm, using 20 = 60ppm). Unless you are talking 10 or 20 drops, the > > number > > difference is so small that it doesn't really matter. Now, if API had > > something like that in their instructions, 1 drop = 0-20ppm, 2 drops = > > 20-40ppm, 3 drops = 40-60ppm, that would be a more realistic conversion > > range. > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>> > > (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right > > side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, > Month) > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On > > Behalf Of Amber Berglund > > Sent: Saturday, June 27, 2009 11:03 PM > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > Subject: [AquaticLife] 55 gallon community tank and crushed coral added > > results > > > > So after my PWC's the last couple of days and the added crushed coral > > to the > > filter my pH now seems to have settled to 7. Yesterday when I tested > > it was > > at 6.8. > > None of the fish seem affected and all I did was add water and crushed > > coral > > i didn't add any other chemicals besides the flourish products. > > All the fish seem very happy actually, no one is showing stress > related to > > pH so I guess the rise was gradual enough. > > > > KH now took 3 drops to change colors, which is 50ppm according to the > > chart... > > I will test the KH tomorrow and see if it has gone up any more. Also > these > > tests were both done just before lights out, if that matters. I can test > > again in the morning before the lights come on to see what the pH is. > > > > Amber > > > > > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 41567	From: Deenerz@aol.com	Date: 6/28/2009
Subject: Re: Dwarf Cichlid lovers... the Cockatoo Cichlid

David Soares in Sisters Oregon breeds some spectacular Dwarf cichlids. He sells on AquaBid as ApistoDave if I recall correctly. Ah, here is a link to his current auctions. http://www.aquabid.com/cgi-bin/auction/auction.cgi?disp&viewseller&Apistodave His Box-a-Apistos has always looked like a good deal to me. -Mike -----Original Message----- From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@...> To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Sun, Jun 28, 2009 2:11 pm Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Dwarf Cichlid lovers... the Cockatoo Cichlid Yeah, my Google search also included some Google Shopping hits and some were moderately priced around $10.00 to $15.00 each, with some priced as high as $50.00 to $60.00 each (for Orange Sunburst or Double Full Red variants). The $10.00 to $15.00 range isn't an exorbitant price compared to what some folks pay for fish. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Steve Szabo Sent: Sunday, June 28, 2009 4:00 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Dwarf Cichlid lovers... the Cockatoo Cichlid Probably because many people do not have them. I seldom see them in the stores so the main source is other hobbyists, and I think that most on this list just have not gotten that far into the hobby yet, evidenced by most di scussions about fish being those commonly found in shops. I did have some. Probably about 15-20 years ago, but I was not very successful with them. They were pretty expensive back then. (You know the old saying about the difference between a novice and an expert in this hobby? The difference is in the price of the fish they kill.) They survived, but did not thrive. Too bad. If I could have bred them, I'd have made a ton of money on them <g>. There are a number of varieties available now, and if someone is not already farming them, it should begin in the relative near future. If a fish get s to the point of being farm raised, it has a pretty good chance of living in many tanks under a wide variety of conditions. \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Lenny V. aka GoldLenny Sent: Sunday, June 28, 2009 4:31 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Dwarf Cichlid lovers... the Cockatoo Cichlid I was just browsing the June 2009 issue of TFH (Tropical Fish Hobbyist magazine) and in the Q & A section, someone asked about the "Cockatoo Cichlid". TFH included a nice picture of a male and it was a really nice looking fish so I was curious why there's not much talk about them and I don't recall hearing about them before. The front part of their dorsal fin perks up like a cockatoo's head feathers, thus the name. I did a Google of "apistogramma cacatuoides" and found a few good profiles and pics.=0 A NICE PICS - http://www.petshop-zoomania.com/CICHLIDS/Apistogramma%20cacatuoides%20%2 7Sup er%20Red%27.jpg This pic looks like they used filters on the camera to add or make the fish look purple but I figured Amber would like them. ;-) http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/archive/1/19/2008032620315 8!Ap istogramma_cacatuoides.jpg Good Profiles on them. http://www.dwarfcichlid.com/Apistogramma_cacatuoides.php http://www.cichlid-forum.com/articles/apistogramma_cacatuoides.php http://www.cichlid-forum.com/articles/apistogramma_cacatuoides2.php http://fish.mongabay.com/species/Apistogramma_cacatuoides.html Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 41568	From: Dora Smith	Date: 6/28/2009
Subject: Re: Dwarf Cichlid lovers... the Cockatoo Cichlid

I was wondering what a cockatoo cichlid could possibly look like. How big do they get? Cockatoo sized? Yours, Dora Smith Austin, TX tiggernut24@... ----- Original Message ----- From: "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@...> To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Sunday, June 28, 2009 3:31 PM Subject: [AquaticLife] Dwarf Cichlid lovers... the Cockatoo Cichlid I was just browsing the June 2009 issue of TFH (Tropical Fish Hobbyist magazine) and in the Q & A section, someone asked about the "Cockatoo Cichlid". TFH included a nice picture of a male and it was a really nice looking fish so I was curious why there's not much talk about them and I don't recall hearing about them before. The front part of their dorsal fin perks up like a cockatoo's head feathers, thus the name. I did a Google of "apistogramma cacatuoides" and found a few good profiles and pics. NICE PICS - http://www.petshop-zoomania.com/CICHLIDS/Apistogramma%20cacatuoides%20%27Sup er%20Red%27.jpg This pic looks like they used filters on the camera to add or make the fish look purple but I figured Amber would like them. ;-) http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/archive/1/19/20080326203158!Ap istogramma_cacatuoides.jpg Good Profiles on them. http://www.dwarfcichlid.com/Apistogramma_cacatuoides.php http://www.cichlid-forum.com/articles/apistogramma_cacatuoides.php http://www.cichlid-forum.com/articles/apistogramma_cacatuoides2.php http://fish.mongabay.com/species/Apistogramma_cacatuoides.html Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) ------------------------------------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the home page. Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com to receive the digest, which includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com for the No E-Mail option where you will still be able to read messages on the group and post replies. Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com to receive individual e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 41569	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 6/28/2009
Subject: Re: Dwarf Cichlid lovers... the Cockatoo Cichlid

If you followed some of Lenny's links, you probably would have noticed that the males may grow to 3.5" and females to about 2". \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Dora Smith Sent: Sunday, June 28, 2009 6:28 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Dwarf Cichlid lovers... the Cockatoo Cichlid I was wondering what a cockatoo cichlid could possibly look like. How big do they get? Cockatoo sized? Yours, Dora Smith Austin, TX tiggernut24@... ----- Original Message ----- From: "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@...> To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Sunday, June 28, 2009 3:31 PM Subject: [AquaticLife] Dwarf Cichlid lovers... the Cockatoo Cichlid I was just browsing the June 2009 issue of TFH (Tropical Fish Hobbyist magazine) and in the Q & A section, someone asked about the "Cockatoo Cichlid". TFH included a nice picture of a male and it was a really nice looking fish so I was curious why there's not much talk about them and I don't recall hearing about them before. The front part of their dorsal fin perks up like a cockatoo's head feathers, thus the name. I did a Google of "apistogramma cacatuoides" and found a few good profiles and pics. NICE PICS - http://www.petshop-zoomania.com/CICHLIDS/Apistogramma%20cacatuoides%20%27Sup er%20Red%27.jpg This pic looks like they used filters on the camera to add or make the fish look purple but I figured Amber would like them. ;-) http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/archive/1/19/20080326203158!Ap istogramma_cacatuoides.jpg Good Profiles on them. http://www.dwarfcichlid.com/Apistogramma_cacatuoides.php http://www.cichlid-forum.com/articles/apistogramma_cacatuoides.php http://www.cichlid-forum.com/articles/apistogramma_cacatuoides2.php http://fish.mongabay.com/species/Apistogramma_cacatuoides.html Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) ------------------------------------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the home page. Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com to receive the digest, which includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com for the No E-Mail option where you will still be able to read messages on the group and post replies. Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com to receive individual e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links ------------------------------------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the home page. Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com to receive the digest, which includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com for the No E-Mail option where you will still be able to read messages on the group and post replies. Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com to receive individual e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 41570	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 6/28/2009
Subject: Re: 55 gallon community tank and crushed coral added results

Yes, overnight, while the fish and ecosystem are putting out CO2, the CO2 level will rise and the pH will fall. Once the lights are on for a while, the plants will have started utilizing the CO2, through photosynthesis, and the CO2 levels will drop and the pH will rise. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Amber Berglund Sent: Sunday, June 28, 2009 5:07 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] 55 gallon community tank and crushed coral added results Oh forgot to say that the KH was 4 drops now. Amber Amber Berglund wrote: > > > The last tests were all done in the evening just before lights out. I > just did a test for pH this morning after the lights had been on for a > couple hours (I forgot to do it before the lights came on). The pH was > 7.2 this afternoon. > What will cause the pH to raise exactly, is it the CO2? > > Amber > > Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > > > > > > The rise from 6.8 pH to 7.0 pH over the course of a full day is > nothing to > > worry about. That is the most you would ever want to change your pH > as an > > immediate change but it's OK when fluctuating that much through the > course > > of a day. In fact, it's not uncommon for this to happen. > > > > Testing the pH first thing in the morning and then right before > lights out > > can matter for test results, but the lighting shouldn't really > affect the > > GH/KH test results. > > > > Did you do these tests at the same time of day or similar time? If > > you tested the lower number first thing in the morning, it could > > have been artificially lowered due to higher levels of CO2 in the > > water. If the second test for 7.0 pH was done near the end of a day, > > then the CO2 > levels > > would be much lower as the plants would have been using it up all day. > > > > Keep monitoring the GH, KH and pH levels over the coming days/weeks > and be > > prepared to remove some of the crushed coral from the filter system > > if they keep climbing too much... or if the fish start showing > > stress, since > your > > fish have been acclimated to your soft, acidic water for a while now. > > > > While the API test result instructions may have that "0 to 3 drops > > equals 0 to 50ppm" type instruction, I would start going with each > > drop equals > > 1 dH, > > which is the way that most other GH/KH test kits read. It's a lot > simpler > > that way. Then to convert dH to ppm, simply multiply by 18 (or even > 20 for > > simplicity... although the actual number is 1 dH = 17.9ppm). Using > > the "20" > > number makes things simple. 3 drops technically equals 53.7ppm > (using 18 = > > 54ppm, using 20 = 60ppm). Unless you are talking 10 or 20 drops, the > > number difference is so small that it doesn't really matter. Now, if > > API had something like that in their instructions, 1 drop = 0-20ppm, > > 2 drops = 20-40ppm, 3 drops = 40-60ppm, that would be a more > > realistic conversion range. > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>> > > (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the > > right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by > > Year, > Month) > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On Behalf Of Amber Berglund > > Sent: Saturday, June 27, 2009 11:03 PM > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > Subject: [AquaticLife] 55 gallon community tank and crushed coral > > added results > > > > So after my PWC's the last couple of days and the added crushed > > coral to the filter my pH now seems to have settled to 7. Yesterday > > when I tested it was at 6.8. > > None of the fish seem affected and all I did was add water and > > crushed coral i didn't add any other chemicals besides the flourish > > products. > > All the fish seem very happy actually, no one is showing stress > related to > > pH so I guess the rise was gradual enough. > > > > KH now took 3 drops to change colors, which is 50ppm according to > > the chart... > > I will test the KH tomorrow and see if it has gone up any more. Also > these > > tests were both done just before lights out, if that matters. I can > > test again in the morning before the lights come on to see what the pH is. > > > > Amber

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 41571	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 6/28/2009
Subject: Re: Rams! and LFS rant.

Hey bill check these Ram's out, I love 'em but they're male only and 25 each, ouch! http://www.aquabid.com/cgi-bin/auction/auction.cgi?fwcichlids&1247192395 Amber bill 1433 wrote: > > > Yes Mam! > > You must have been here before! > > Bill > > mber@... <mailto:mber%40rose-fields.com>> wrote: > > > From: Amber Berglund <amber@... > <mailto:amber%40rose-fields.com>> > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Rams! and LFS rant. > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > Date: Sunday, June 28, 2009, 5:43 PM > > Sure it's accessible from the > > mainland... from a plane... or a boat ;) LOL. > > Bill, Where's your city population sign, is it on the same > > sign post? LOL > > > > Amber > > > > Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > > > > > > > > > The difference is that a delivery truck can pull up to > > your town. Amber's > > > not so lucky.... it's the price you pay for living on > > a tropical island... > > > when it's not a frozen tundra. LOL > > > > > > Amber, > > > > > > Is the land across from your island accessible from > > the mainland or is > > > that > > > just another bigger island... you know, the one where > > your "International > > > Airport" is located. LOL > > > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>> > > > (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are > > listed on the right > > > side, alphabetically under Labels and also under > > Archives by Year, Month) > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On > > > Behalf Of bill 1433 > > > Sent: Sunday, June 28, 2009 4:28 PM > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Rams! and LFS rant. > > > > > > So what! > > > > > > My town is that small we have the two > > > > > > "City Limit Signs" on one post! > > > > > > Bill > > > > > > --- On Sun, 6/28/09, Steve Szabo <steve@... > <mailto:steve%40familyszabo.com> > > > > > <mailto:steve%40familyszabo.com>> wrote: > > > > > > > From: Steve Szabo <steve@... > <mailto:steve%40familyszabo.com> > > > > > <mailto:steve%40familyszabo.com>> > > > > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Rams! and LFS rant. > > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > Date: Sunday, June 28, 2009, 4:48 PM > > > > Bill, > > > > > > > > Ever look at her town on Google Earth? She's > > lucky enough to have that > > > > one pet store there for the size of the > > population on that island. > > > > > > > > \\Steve// > > > > > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] > > > > On Behalf Of bill 1433 > > > > Sent: Sunday, June 28, 2009 4:17 PM > > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Rams! and LFS rant. > > > > > > > > > > > > Then there only seems to be one real answer? > > Create high demand! > > > > How? Have some folks over to look at your > > beautiful tanks! > > > > Especially that 125. > > > > > > > > I'll never forget the fist time I saw one. > > Even though, with the size > > > > of our current house, I could never have one, it > > does not stop me from > > > > dreaming about it. People that don't know > > much about fish or how they > > > > are cared for really enjoy seeing a beautiful > > tank setup and running. > > > > After that first look, stand by for the > > questions! Remember that fish > > > > do not need to be let out or walked. They > > don't need their litter > > > > boxes changed either.. > > > > > > > > The first question us usually: Can I have > > one of those in our house? > > > > This is also good if the people have > > children. Once there is an > > > > interest, some smart guy is going to figure a way > > to make a buck and > > > > capitalize on it, count on that! It's what > > made this country great. > > > > > > > > Bill > > > > > > > > --- On Sun, 6/28/09, Amber Berglund <amber@... > <mailto:amber%40rose-fields.com> > > > > > <mailto:amber%40rose-fields.com>> > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > From: Amber Berglund <amber@... > <mailto:amber%40rose-fields.com> > > > > > <mailto:amber%40rose-fields.com>> > > > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Rams! and LFS rant. > > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > Date: Sunday, June 28, 2009, 3:47 PM > > > > > > > > > > > > Lol, no I have a front porch that's not covered > > or heated, but I do > > > > have an unheated storage unit without power as > > well ;) I don't think > > > > any of those will help me out. > > > > The reason we don't have any competition is > > because there doesn't seem > > > > to be a high demand for pet stores on this > > island, they all end up out > > > > of business. > > > > > > > > Amber > > > > > > > > > > > > Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > If Amber's Angelfish ever get down to > > business and > > > > quit eating their > > > > > eggs/fry, maybe she'll be the competition on > > that > > > > Alaskan island... at > > > > > least > > > > > for Angelfish. Do you have a garage with > > your condo? > > > > ;) > > > > > > > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > > > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>> > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>>> > > > > > (Links to any articles referenced in above > > reply are > > > > listed on the right > > > > > side, alphabetically under Labels and also > > under > > > > Archives by Year, Month) > > > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On > > > > > Behalf Of Harl Myers > > > > > Sent: Sunday, June 28, 2009 1:38 PM > > > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Rams! and LFS > > rant. > > > > > > > > > > Well, that just sucks! They certainly need > > some > > > > competition... > > > > > > > > > > On Sun, Jun 28, 2009 at 1:54 PM, Amber > > > Berglund<amber@... <mailto:amber%40rose-fields.com> > > <mailto:amber%40rose-fields.com> > > > > > > > > > <mailto:amber%40rose-fields.com>> > > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I tried that tactic, I said, "Can I > > prepay for > > > > any of them?" She said > > > > > > no, "I said I'll buy them without a > > guarantee > > > > then since you just got > > > > > > them" She said no, "I said, but I > > really want > > > > rams and I don't have > > > > > > time to go shopping out here during the > > week, so > > > > I'll be lucky if > > > > > > they're all still here by the time I > > get back out > > > > here..." She said > > > > > > Sorry... LOL > > > > > > > > > > > > Amber > > > > > > > > > > > > Harl Myers wrote: > > > > > >> > > > > > >> > > > > > >> Being a good customer, could you > > not just pay > > > > ahead for a pair, and > > > > > >> if they do not last to sale, get a > > refund. If > > > > 2 make it to sale, the > > > > > >> could be marked as sold. That way > > you get > > > > yours... > > > > > >> > > > > > >> On Sat, Jun 27, 2009 at 9:20 PM, > > Amber > > > > > Berglund<amber@... <mailto:amber%40rose-fields.com> > > <mailto:amber%40rose-fields.com> > > > > <mailto:amber%40rose-fields.com> > > > > > >> > > <mailto:amber%40rose-fields.com>> > > > > wrote: > > > > > >> > > > > > > >> > > > > > > >> > Well my LFS got Rams in stock > > again, > > > > they look like the same kind > > > > > >> > as last time, though I'm not > > sure if > > > > they're really bolivian rams > > > > > >> > or not ;) LOL. > > > > > >> > They aren't for sale yet > > though, they > > > > just got them yesterday, I > > > > > >> > was a bit grumpy that I have > > to find > > > > time later next week to come > > > > > >> > back and hope they still have > > them in > > > > stock :( Guess I will > > > > > >> > consider another route if that > > doesn't > > > > work out. > > > > > >> > Some days I hate my LFS. > > > > > >> > But I did buy a madagascar > > lace > > > > plant/bulb, it's already blooming > > > > > too. > > > > > >> > > > > > > >> > Amber > > > > > > > > > > > > ------------------------------------ > > > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when > > replying, Thank You. > > ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> > > ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> > > PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is > > NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of > > the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new > > subject (was re: old subject)" <- > > <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. > > , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. > > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. > > > > If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of > > unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by > > clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the home page. > > > > Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:aquaticlife-digest%40yahoogroups.com> > > to receive the digest, which includes up to 25 posts at a > > time in a single email > > > > Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:aquaticlife-nomail%40yahoogroups.com> > > for the No E-Mail option where you will still be able to > > read messages on the group and post replies. > > > > Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:aquaticlife-normal%40yahoogroups.com> > > to receive individual e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > mailto:AquaticLife-fullfeatured@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife-fullfeatured%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 41572	From: bill 1433	Date: 6/28/2009
Subject: Re: Rams! and LFS rant.

Amber,   Quite sometime ago a very nice person named Pam Andres (spelling?) put me onto Aquabid and a good seller.  Type in Blueram06.  When you get to their page check out his selling scores, they are unreal!  Never mind I have it up on another page, just go here: http://www.aquabid.com/cgi-bin/auction/search.cgi   Bill --- On Sun, 6/28/09, Amber Berglund <amber@...> wrote: From: Amber Berglund <amber@...> Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Rams! and LFS rant. To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Date: Sunday, June 28, 2009, 9:01 PM Hey bill check these Ram's out, I love 'em but they're male only and 25 each, ouch! http://www.aquabid.com/cgi-bin/auction/auction.cgi?fwcichlids&1247192395 Amber bill 1433 wrote: > > > Yes Mam! >  > You must have been here before! >  > Bill > > mber@... <mailto:mber%40rose-fields.com>> wrote: > > > From: Amber Berglund <amber@... > <mailto:amber%40rose-fields.com>> > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Rams! and LFS rant. > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > Date: Sunday, June 28, 2009, 5:43 PM > > Sure it's accessible from the > > mainland... from a plane... or a boat ;) LOL. > > Bill, Where's your city population sign, is it on the same > > sign post? LOL > > > > Amber > > > > Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > > > > > > > > > The difference is that a delivery truck can pull up to > > your town. Amber's > > > not so lucky.... it's the price you pay for living on > > a tropical island... > > > when it's not a frozen tundra. LOL > > > > > > Amber, > > > > > > Is the land across from your island accessible from > > the mainland or is > > > that > > > just another bigger island... you know, the one where > > your "International > > > Airport" is located. LOL > > > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>> > > > (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are > > listed on the right > > > side, alphabetically under Labels and also under > > Archives by Year, Month) > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On > > > Behalf Of bill 1433 > > > Sent: Sunday, June 28, 2009 4:28 PM > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Rams! and LFS rant. > > > > > > So what! > > > > > > My town is that small we have the two > > > > > > "City Limit Signs" on one post! > > > > > > Bill > > > > > > --- On Sun, 6/28/09, Steve Szabo <steve@... > <mailto:steve%40familyszabo.com> > > > > > <mailto:steve%40familyszabo.com>> wrote: > > > > > > > From: Steve Szabo <steve@... > <mailto:steve%40familyszabo.com> > > > > > <mailto:steve%40familyszabo.com>> > > > > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Rams! and LFS rant. > > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > Date: Sunday, June 28, 2009, 4:48 PM > > > > Bill, > > > > > > > > Ever look at her town on Google Earth? She's > > lucky enough to have that > > > > one pet store there for the size of the > > population on that island. > > > > > > > > \\Steve// > > > > > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] > > > > On Behalf Of bill 1433 > > > > Sent: Sunday, June 28, 2009 4:17 PM > > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Rams! and LFS rant. > > > > > > > > > > > > Then there only seems to be one real answer? > > Create high demand! > > > > How?  Have some folks over to look at your > > beautiful tanks! > > > > Especially that 125. > > > > > > > > I'll never forget the fist time I saw one. > > Even though, with the size > > > > of our current house, I could never have one, it > > does not stop me from > > > > dreaming about it.  People that don't know > > much about fish or how they > > > > are cared for really enjoy seeing a beautiful > > tank setup and running. > > > > After that first look, stand by for the > > questions!  Remember that fish > > > > do not need to be let out or walked.  They > > don't need their litter > > > > boxes changed either.. > > > > > > > > The first question us usually:  Can I have > > one of those in our house? > > > > This is also good if the people have > > children.  Once there is an > > > > interest, some smart guy is going to figure a way > > to make a buck and > > > > capitalize on it, count on that!  It's what > > made this country great. > > > > > > > > Bill > > > > > > > > --- On Sun, 6/28/09, Amber Berglund <amber@... > <mailto:amber%40rose-fields.com> > > > > > <mailto:amber%40rose-fields.com>> > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > From: Amber Berglund <amber@... > <mailto:amber%40rose-fields.com> > > > > > <mailto:amber%40rose-fields.com>> > > > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Rams! and LFS rant. > > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > Date: Sunday, June 28, 2009, 3:47 PM > > > > > > > > > > > > Lol, no I have a front porch that's not covered > > or heated, but I do > > > > have an unheated storage unit without power as > > well ;) I don't think > > > > any of those will help me out. > > > > The reason we don't have any competition is > > because there doesn't seem > > > > to be a high demand for pet stores on this > > island, they all end up out > > > > of business. > > > > > > > > Amber > > > > > > > > > > > > Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > If Amber's Angelfish ever get down to > > business and > > > > quit eating their > > > > > eggs/fry, maybe she'll be the competition on > > that > > > > Alaskan island... at > > > > > least > > > > > for Angelfish. Do you have a garage with > > your condo? > > > > ;) > > > > > > > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > > > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>> > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>>> > > > > > (Links to any articles referenced in above > > reply are > > > > listed on the right > > > > > side, alphabetically under Labels and also > > under > > > > Archives by Year, Month) > > > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On > > > > > Behalf Of Harl Myers > > > > > Sent: Sunday, June 28, 2009 1:38 PM > > > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Rams! and LFS > > rant. > > > > > > > > > > Well, that just sucks! They certainly need > > some > > > > competition... > > > > > > > > > > On Sun, Jun 28, 2009 at 1:54 PM, Amber > > > Berglund<amber@... <mailto:amber%40rose-fields.com> > > <mailto:amber%40rose-fields.com> > > > > > > > > > <mailto:amber%40rose-fields.com>> > > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I tried that tactic, I said, "Can I > > prepay for > > > > any of them?" She said > > > > > > no, "I said I'll buy them without a > > guarantee > > > > then since you just got > > > > > > them" She said no, "I said, but I > > really want > > > > rams and I don't have > > > > > > time to go shopping out here during the > > week, so > > > > I'll be lucky if > > > > > > they're all still here by the time I > > get back out > > > > here..." She said > > > > > > Sorry... LOL > > > > > > > > > > > > Amber > > > > > > > > > > > > Harl Myers wrote: > > > > > >> > > > > > >> > > > > > >> Being a good customer, could you > > not just pay > > > > ahead for a pair, and > > > > > >> if they do not last to sale, get a > > refund. If > > > > 2 make it to sale, the > > > > > >> could be marked as sold. That way > > you get > > > > yours... > > > > > >> > > > > > >> On Sat, Jun 27, 2009 at 9:20 PM, > > Amber > > > > > Berglund<amber@... <mailto:amber%40rose-fields.com> > > <mailto:amber%40rose-fields.com> > > > > <mailto:amber%40rose-fields.com> > > > > > >> > > <mailto:amber%40rose-fields.com>> > > > > wrote: > > > > > >> > > > > > > >> > > > > > > >> > Well my LFS got Rams in stock > > again, > > > > they look like the same kind > > > > > >> > as last time, though I'm not > > sure if > > > > they're really bolivian rams > > > > > >> > or not ;) LOL. > > > > > >> > They aren't for sale yet > > though, they > > > > just got them yesterday, I > > > > > >> > was a bit grumpy that I have > > to find > > > > time later next week to come > > > > > >> > back and hope they still have > > them in > > > > stock :( Guess I will > > > > > >> > consider another route if that > > doesn't > > > > work out. > > > > > >> > Some days I hate my LFS. > > > > > >> > But I did buy a madagascar > > lace > > > > plant/bulb, it's already blooming > > > > > too. > > > > > >> > > > > > > >> > Amber > > > > > > > > > > > > ------------------------------------ > > > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when > > replying, Thank You. > > ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> > > ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> > > PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is > > NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of > > the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new > > subject (was re: old subject)" <- > > <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. > > , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. > > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. > > > > If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of > > unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by > > clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the home page. > > > > Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:aquaticlife-digest%40yahoogroups.com> > > to receive the digest, which includes up to 25 posts at a > > time in a single email > > > > Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:aquaticlife-nomail%40yahoogroups.com> > > for the No E-Mail option where you will still be able to > > read messages on the group and post replies. > > > > Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:aquaticlife-normal%40yahoogroups.com> > > to receive individual e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > >     mailto:AquaticLife-fullfeatured@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife-fullfeatured%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > ------------------------------------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the home page.  Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com to receive the digest, which includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com for the No E-Mail option where you will still be able to read messages on the group and post replies. Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com to receive individual e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 41573	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 6/28/2009
Subject: Re: Rams! and LFS rant.

Did you look at the ram's though Bill? They're a different color than normal, I haven't seen these ones before... I'm not surprised that they're being sold as male's only ;) Amber bill 1433 wrote: > > > > Amber, > > Quite sometime ago a very nice person named Pam Andres (spelling?) put > me onto Aquabid and a good seller. Type in Blueram06. > > When you get to their page check out his selling scores, they are > unreal! Never mind I have it up on another page, just go here: > http://www.aquabid.com/cgi-bin/auction/search.cgi > <http://www.aquabid.com/cgi-bin/auction/search.cgi> > > Bill > > --- On Sun, 6/28/09, Amber Berglund <amber@... > <mailto:amber%40rose-fields.com>> wrote: > > From: Amber Berglund <amber@... > <mailto:amber%40rose-fields.com>> > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Rams! and LFS rant. > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Date: Sunday, June 28, 2009, 9:01 PM > > Hey bill check these Ram's out, I love 'em but they're male only and 25 > each, ouch! > http://www.aquabid.com/cgi-bin/auction/auction.cgi?fwcichlids&1247192395 > <http://www.aquabid.com/cgi-bin/auction/auction.cgi?fwcichlids&1247192395> > > Amber > > bill 1433 wrote: > > > > > > Yes Mam! > > > > You must have been here before! > > > > Bill > > > > mber@... <mailto:mber%40rose-fields.com> > <mailto:mber%40rose-fields.com>> wrote: > > > > > From: Amber Berglund <amber@... > <mailto:amber%40rose-fields.com> > > <mailto:amber%40rose-fields.com>> > > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Rams! and LFS rant. > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > Date: Sunday, June 28, 2009, 5:43 PM > > > Sure it's accessible from the > > > mainland... from a plane... or a boat ;) LOL. > > > Bill, Where's your city population sign, is it on the same > > > sign post? LOL > > > > > > Amber > > > > > > Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > The difference is that a delivery truck can pull up to > > > your town. Amber's > > > > not so lucky.... it's the price you pay for living on > > > a tropical island... > > > > when it's not a frozen tundra. LOL > > > > > > > > Amber, > > > > > > > > Is the land across from your island accessible from > > > the mainland or is > > > > that > > > > just another bigger island... you know, the one where > > > your "International > > > > Airport" is located. LOL > > > > > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>>> > > > > (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are > > > listed on the right > > > > side, alphabetically under Labels and also under > > > Archives by Year, Month) > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On > > > > Behalf Of bill 1433 > > > > Sent: Sunday, June 28, 2009 4:28 PM > > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Rams! and LFS rant. > > > > > > > > So what! > > > > > > > > My town is that small we have the two > > > > > > > > "City Limit Signs" on one post! > > > > > > > > Bill > > > > > > > > --- On Sun, 6/28/09, Steve Szabo <steve@... > <mailto:steve%40familyszabo.com> > > <mailto:steve%40familyszabo.com> > > > > > > > <mailto:steve%40familyszabo.com>> wrote: > > > > > > > > > From: Steve Szabo <steve@... > <mailto:steve%40familyszabo.com> > > <mailto:steve%40familyszabo.com> > > > > > > > <mailto:steve%40familyszabo.com>> > > > > > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Rams! and LFS rant. > > > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > Date: Sunday, June 28, 2009, 4:48 PM > > > > > Bill, > > > > > > > > > > Ever look at her town on Google Earth? She's > > > lucky enough to have that > > > > > one pet store there for the size of the > > > population on that island. > > > > > > > > > > \\Steve// > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] > > > > > On Behalf Of bill 1433 > > > > > Sent: Sunday, June 28, 2009 4:17 PM > > > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Rams! and LFS rant. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Then there only seems to be one real answer? > > > Create high demand! > > > > > How? Have some folks over to look at your > > > beautiful tanks! > > > > > Especially that 125. > > > > > > > > > > I'll never forget the fist time I saw one. > > > Even though, with the size > > > > > of our current house, I could never have one, it > > > does not stop me from > > > > > dreaming about it. People that don't know > > > much about fish or how they > > > > > are cared for really enjoy seeing a beautiful > > > tank setup and running. > > > > > After that first look, stand by for the > > > questions! Remember that fish > > > > > do not need to be let out or walked. They > > > don't need their litter > > > > > boxes changed either.. > > > > > > > > > > The first question us usually: Can I have > > > one of those in our house? > > > > > This is also good if the people have > > > children. Once there is an > > > > > interest, some smart guy is going to figure a way > > > to make a buck and > > > > > capitalize on it, count on that! It's what > > > made this country great. > > > > > > > > > > Bill > > > > > > > > > > --- On Sun, 6/28/09, Amber Berglund <amber@... > <mailto:amber%40rose-fields.com> > > <mailto:amber%40rose-fields.com> > > > > > > > <mailto:amber%40rose-fields.com>> > > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > From: Amber Berglund <amber@... > <mailto:amber%40rose-fields.com> > > <mailto:amber%40rose-fields.com> > > > > > > > <mailto:amber%40rose-fields.com>> > > > > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Rams! and LFS rant. > > > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > Date: Sunday, June 28, 2009, 3:47 PM > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Lol, no I have a front porch that's not covered > > > or heated, but I do > > > > > have an unheated storage unit without power as > > > well ;) I don't think > > > > > any of those will help me out. > > > > > The reason we don't have any competition is > > > because there doesn't seem > > > > > to be a high demand for pet stores on this > > > island, they all end up out > > > > > of business. > > > > > > > > > > Amber > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > If Amber's Angelfish ever get down to > > > business and > > > > > quit eating their > > > > > > eggs/fry, maybe she'll be the competition on > > > that > > > > > Alaskan island... at > > > > > > least > > > > > > for Angelfish. Do you have a garage with > > > your condo? > > > > > ;) > > > > > > > > > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > > > > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>> > > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>>> > > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>> > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>>>> > > > > > > (Links to any articles referenced in above > > > reply are > > > > > listed on the right > > > > > > side, alphabetically under Labels and also > > > under > > > > > Archives by Year, Month) > > > > > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > > > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On > > > > > > Behalf Of Harl Myers > > > > > > Sent: Sunday, June 28, 2009 1:38 PM > > > > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Rams! and LFS > > > rant. > > > > > > > > > > > > Well, that just sucks! They certainly need > > > some > > > > > competition... > > > > > > > > > > > > On Sun, Jun 28, 2009 at 1:54 PM, Amber > > > > Berglund<amber@... <mailto:amber%40rose-fields.com> > <mailto:amber%40rose-fields.com> > > > <mailto:amber%40rose-fields.com> > > > > > > > > > > > <mailto:amber%40rose-fields.com>> > > > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I tried that tactic, I said, "Can I > > > prepay for > > > > > any of them?" She said > > > > > > > no, "I said I'll buy them without a > > > guarantee > > > > > then since you just got > > > > > > > them" She said no, "I said, but I > > > really want > > > > > rams and I don't have > > > > > > > time to go shopping out here during the > > > week, so > > > > > I'll be lucky if > > > > > > > they're all still here by the time I > > > get back out > > > > > here..." She said > > > > > > > Sorry... LOL > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Amber > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Harl Myers wrote: > > > > > > >> > > > > > > >> > > > > > > >> Being a good customer, could you > > > not just pay > > > > > ahead for a pair, and > > > > > > >> if they do not last to sale, get a > > > refund. If > > > > > 2 make it to sale, the > > > > > > >> could be marked as sold. That way > > > you get > > > > > yours... > > > > > > >> > > > > > > >> On Sat, Jun 27, 2009 at 9:20 PM, > > > Amber > > > > > > Berglund<amber@... > <mailto:amber%40rose-fields.com> <mailto:amber%40rose-fields.com> > > > <mailto:amber%40rose-fields.com> > > > > > <mailto:amber%40rose-fields.com> > > > > > > >> > > > <mailto:amber%40rose-fields.com>> > > > > > wrote: > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > >> > Well my LFS got Rams in stock > > > again, > > > > > they look like the same kind > > > > > > >> > as last time, though I'm not > > > sure if > > > > > they're really bolivian rams > > > > > > >> > or not ;) LOL. > > > > > > >> > They aren't for sale yet > > > though, they > > > > > just got them yesterday, I > > > > > > >> > was a bit grumpy that I have > > > to find > > > > > time later next week to come > > > > > > >> > back and hope they still have > > > them in > > > > > stock :( Guess I will > > > > > > >> > consider another route if that > > > doesn't > > > > > work out. > > > > > > >> > Some days I hate my LFS. > > > > > > >> > But I did buy a madagascar > > > lace > > > > > plant/bulb, it's already blooming > > > > > > too. > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > >> > Amber > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ------------------------------------ > > > > > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when > > > replying, Thank You. > > > ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> > > > ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> > > > PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is > > > NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of > > > the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new > > > subject (was re: old subject)" <- > > > <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. > > > , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. > > > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. > > > > > > If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of > > > unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by > > > clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the home page. > > > > > > Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:aquaticlife-digest%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:aquaticlife-digest%40yahoogroups.com> > > > to receive the digest, which includes up to 25 posts at a > > > time in a single email > > > > > > Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:aquaticlife-nomail%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:aquaticlife-nomail%40yahoogroups.com> > > > for the No E-Mail option where you will still be able to > > > read messages on the group and post replies. > > > > > > Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:aquaticlife-normal%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:aquaticlife-normal%40yahoogroups.com> > > > to receive individual e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > > > > mailto:AquaticLife-fullfeatured@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife-fullfeatured%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife-fullfeatured%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > > > ------------------------------------ > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. > ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> > PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT > important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message > MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- > <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. > > If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of unsubscribing, > you can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My > Membership" on the home page. > > Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:aquaticlife-digest%40yahoogroups.com> to receive the digest, > which includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email > > Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:aquaticlife-nomail%40yahoogroups.com> for the No E-Mail option > where you will still be able to read messages on the group and post > replies. > > Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:aquaticlife-normal%40yahoogroups.com> to receive individual > e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 41574	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 6/28/2009
Subject: Re: 55 gallon community tank and crushed coral added results

So will my pH only raise to a certain point or should I be watching it carefully? Amber Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > > > Yes, overnight, while the fish and ecosystem are putting out CO2, the CO2 > level will rise and the pH will fall. Once the lights are on for a while, > the plants will have started utilizing the CO2, through > photosynthesis, and > the CO2 levels will drop and the pH will rise. > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right > side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) > > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On > Behalf Of Amber Berglund > Sent: Sunday, June 28, 2009 5:07 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] 55 gallon community tank and crushed coral > added > results > > Oh forgot to say that the KH was 4 drops now. > > Amber > > Amber Berglund wrote: > > > > > > The last tests were all done in the evening just before lights out. I > > just did a test for pH this morning after the lights had been on for a > > couple hours (I forgot to do it before the lights came on). The pH was > > 7.2 this afternoon. > > What will cause the pH to raise exactly, is it the CO2? > > > > Amber > > > > Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > > > > > > > > > The rise from 6.8 pH to 7.0 pH over the course of a full day is > > nothing to > > > worry about. That is the most you would ever want to change your pH > > as an > > > immediate change but it's OK when fluctuating that much through the > > course > > > of a day. In fact, it's not uncommon for this to happen. > > > > > > Testing the pH first thing in the morning and then right before > > lights out > > > can matter for test results, but the lighting shouldn't really > > affect the > > > GH/KH test results. > > > > > > Did you do these tests at the same time of day or similar time? If > > > you tested the lower number first thing in the morning, it could > > > have been artificially lowered due to higher levels of CO2 in the > > > water. If the second test for 7.0 pH was done near the end of a day, > > > then the CO2 > > levels > > > would be much lower as the plants would have been using it up all day. > > > > > > Keep monitoring the GH, KH and pH levels over the coming days/weeks > > and be > > > prepared to remove some of the crushed coral from the filter system > > > if they keep climbing too much... or if the fish start showing > > > stress, since > > your > > > fish have been acclimated to your soft, acidic water for a while now. > > > > > > While the API test result instructions may have that "0 to 3 drops > > > equals 0 to 50ppm" type instruction, I would start going with each > > > drop equals > > > 1 dH, > > > which is the way that most other GH/KH test kits read. It's a lot > > simpler > > > that way. Then to convert dH to ppm, simply multiply by 18 (or even > > 20 for > > > simplicity... although the actual number is 1 dH = 17.9ppm). Using > > > the "20" > > > number makes things simple. 3 drops technically equals 53.7ppm > > (using 18 = > > > 54ppm, using 20 = 60ppm). Unless you are talking 10 or 20 drops, the > > > number difference is so small that it doesn't really matter. Now, if > > > API had something like that in their instructions, 1 drop = 0-20ppm, > > > 2 drops = 20-40ppm, 3 drops = 40-60ppm, that would be a more > > > realistic conversion range. > > > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>>> > > > (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the > > > right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by > > > Year, > > Month) > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On Behalf Of Amber Berglund > > > Sent: Saturday, June 27, 2009 11:03 PM > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > Subject: [AquaticLife] 55 gallon community tank and crushed coral > > > added results > > > > > > So after my PWC's the last couple of days and the added crushed > > > coral to the filter my pH now seems to have settled to 7. Yesterday > > > when I tested it was at 6.8. > > > None of the fish seem affected and all I did was add water and > > > crushed coral i didn't add any other chemicals besides the flourish > > > products. > > > All the fish seem very happy actually, no one is showing stress > > related to > > > pH so I guess the rise was gradual enough. > > > > > > KH now took 3 drops to change colors, which is 50ppm according to > > > the chart... > > > I will test the KH tomorrow and see if it has gone up any more. Also > > these > > > tests were both done just before lights out, if that matters. I can > > > test again in the morning before the lights come on to see what the pH > is. > > > > > > Amber > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 41575	From: William	Date: 6/28/2009
Subject: Re: Rams! and LFS rant.

Last week the lfs had a shipment of 5 of these new electric c blue rams and they were going t be sold at $125.00 each. They will be swimming around in that store for a while. --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, Amber Berglund <amber@...> wrote: > > Did you look at the ram's though Bill? They're a different color than > normal, I haven't seen these ones before... I'm not surprised that > they're being sold as male's only ;) > > Amber > > bill 1433 wrote: > > > > > > > > Amber, > > > > Quite sometime ago a very nice person named Pam Andres (spelling?) put > > me onto Aquabid and a good seller. Type in Blueram06. > > > > When you get to their page check out his selling scores, they are > > unreal! Never mind I have it up on another page, just go here: > > http://www.aquabid.com/cgi-bin/auction/search.cgi > > <http://www.aquabid.com/cgi-bin/auction/search.cgi> > > > > Bill > > > > --- On Sun, 6/28/09, Amber Berglund <amber@... > > <mailto:amber%40rose-fields.com>> wrote: > > > > From: Amber Berglund <amber@... > > <mailto:amber%40rose-fields.com>> > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Rams! and LFS rant. > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > Date: Sunday, June 28, 2009, 9:01 PM > > > > Hey bill check these Ram's out, I love 'em but they're male only and 25 > > each, ouch! > > http://www.aquabid.com/cgi-bin/auction/auction.cgi?fwcichlids&1247192395 > > <http://www.aquabid.com/cgi-bin/auction/auction.cgi?fwcichlids&1247192395> > > > > Amber > > > > bill 1433 wrote: > > > > > > > > > Yes Mam! > > > > > > You must have been here before! > > > > > > Bill > > > > > > mber@... <mailto:mber%40rose-fields.com> > > <mailto:mber%40rose-fields.com>> wrote: > > > > > > > From: Amber Berglund <amber@... > > <mailto:amber%40rose-fields.com> > > > <mailto:amber%40rose-fields.com>> > > > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Rams! and LFS rant. > > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > Date: Sunday, June 28, 2009, 5:43 PM > > > > Sure it's accessible from the > > > > mainland... from a plane... or a boat ;) LOL. > > > > Bill, Where's your city population sign, is it on the same > > > > sign post? LOL > > > > > > > > Amber > > > > > > > > Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > The difference is that a delivery truck can pull up to > > > > your town. Amber's > > > > > not so lucky.... it's the price you pay for living on > > > > a tropical island... > > > > > when it's not a frozen tundra. LOL > > > > > > > > > > Amber, > > > > > > > > > > Is the land across from your island accessible from > > > > the mainland or is > > > > > that > > > > > just another bigger island... you know, the one where > > > > your "International > > > > > Airport" is located. LOL > > > > > > > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > > > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>> > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>>> > > > > > (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are > > > > listed on the right > > > > > side, alphabetically under Labels and also under > > > > Archives by Year, Month) > > > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On > > > > > Behalf Of bill 1433 > > > > > Sent: Sunday, June 28, 2009 4:28 PM > > > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Rams! and LFS rant. > > > > > > > > > > So what! > > > > > > > > > > My town is that small we have the two > > > > > > > > > > "City Limit Signs" on one post! > > > > > > > > > > Bill > > > > > > > > > > --- On Sun, 6/28/09, Steve Szabo <steve@... > > <mailto:steve%40familyszabo.com> > > > <mailto:steve%40familyszabo.com> > > > > > > > > > <mailto:steve%40familyszabo.com>> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > From: Steve Szabo <steve@... > > <mailto:steve%40familyszabo.com> > > > <mailto:steve%40familyszabo.com> > > > > > > > > > <mailto:steve%40familyszabo.com>> > > > > > > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Rams! and LFS rant. > > > > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > Date: Sunday, June 28, 2009, 4:48 PM > > > > > > Bill, > > > > > > > > > > > > Ever look at her town on Google Earth? She's > > > > lucky enough to have that > > > > > > one pet store there for the size of the > > > > population on that island. > > > > > > > > > > > > \\Steve// > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > > > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] > > > > > > On Behalf Of bill 1433 > > > > > > Sent: Sunday, June 28, 2009 4:17 PM > > > > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Rams! and LFS rant. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Then there only seems to be one real answer? > > > > Create high demand! > > > > > > How? Have some folks over to look at your > > > > beautiful tanks! > > > > > > Especially that 125. > > > > > > > > > > > > I'll never forget the fist time I saw one. > > > > Even though, with the size > > > > > > of our current house, I could never have one, it > > > > does not stop me from > > > > > > dreaming about it. People that don't know > > > > much about fish or how they > > > > > > are cared for really enjoy seeing a beautiful > > > > tank setup and running. > > > > > > After that first look, stand by for the > > > > questions! Remember that fish > > > > > > do not need to be let out or walked. They > > > > don't need their litter > > > > > > boxes changed either.. > > > > > > > > > > > > The first question us usually: Can I have > > > > one of those in our house? > > > > > > This is also good if the people have > > > > children. Once there is an > > > > > > interest, some smart guy is going to figure a way > > > > to make a buck and > > > > > > capitalize on it, count on that! It's what > > > > made this country great. > > > > > > > > > > > > Bill > > > > > > > > > > > > --- On Sun, 6/28/09, Amber Berglund <amber@... > > <mailto:amber%40rose-fields.com> > > > <mailto:amber%40rose-fields.com> > > > > > > > > > <mailto:amber%40rose-fields.com>> > > > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > From: Amber Berglund <amber@... > > <mailto:amber%40rose-fields.com> > > > <mailto:amber%40rose-fields.com> > > > > > > > > > <mailto:amber%40rose-fields.com>> > > > > > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Rams! and LFS rant. > > > > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > Date: Sunday, June 28, 2009, 3:47 PM > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Lol, no I have a front porch that's not covered > > > > or heated, but I do > > > > > > have an unheated storage unit without power as > > > > well ;) I don't think > > > > > > any of those will help me out. > > > > > > The reason we don't have any competition is > > > > because there doesn't seem > > > > > > to be a high demand for pet stores on this > > > > island, they all end up out > > > > > > of business. > > > > > > > > > > > > Amber > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > If Amber's Angelfish ever get down to > > > > business and > > > > > > quit eating their > > > > > > > eggs/fry, maybe she'll be the competition on > > > > that > > > > > > Alaskan island... at > > > > > > > least > > > > > > > for Angelfish. Do you have a garage with > > > > your condo? > > > > > > ;) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > > > > > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>> > > > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>>> > > > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>> > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>>>> > > > > > > > (Links to any articles referenced in above > > > > reply are > > > > > > listed on the right > > > > > > > side, alphabetically under Labels and also > > > > under > > > > > > Archives by Year, Month) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > > > > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On > > > > > > > Behalf Of Harl Myers > > > > > > > Sent: Sunday, June 28, 2009 1:38 PM > > > > > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Rams! and LFS > > > > rant. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Well, that just sucks! They certainly need > > > > some > > > > > > competition... > > > > > > > > > > > > > > On Sun, Jun 28, 2009 at 1:54 PM, Amber > > > > > Berglund<amber@... <mailto:amber%40rose-fields.com> > > <mailto:amber%40rose-fields.com> > > > > <mailto:amber%40rose-fields.com> > > > > > > > > > > > > > <mailto:amber%40rose-fields.com>> > > > > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I tried that tactic, I said, "Can I > > > > prepay for > > > > > > any of them?" She said > > > > > > > > no, "I said I'll buy them without a > > > > guarantee > > > > > > then since you just got > > > > > > > > them" She said no, "I said, but I > > > > really want > > > > > > rams and I don't have > > > > > > > > time to go shopping out here during the > > > > week, so > > > > > > I'll be lucky if > > > > > > > > they're all still here by the time I > > > > get back out > > > > > > here..." She said > > > > > > > > Sorry... LOL > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Amber > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Harl Myers wrote: > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > >> Being a good customer, could you > > > > not just pay > > > > > > ahead for a pair, and > > > > > > > >> if they do not last to sale, get a > > > > refund. If > > > > > > 2 make it to sale, the > > > > > > > >> could be marked as sold. That way > > > > you get > > > > > > yours... > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > >> On Sat, Jun 27, 2009 at 9:20 PM, > > > > Amber > > > > > > > Berglund<amber@... > > <mailto:amber%40rose-fields.com> <mailto:amber%40rose-fields.com> > > > > <mailto:amber%40rose-fields.com> > > > > > > <mailto:amber%40rose-fields.com> > > > > > > > >> > > > > <mailto:amber%40rose-fields.com>> > > > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > >> > Well my LFS got Rams in stock > > > > again, > > > > > > they look like the same kind > > > > > > > >> > as last time, though I'm not > > > > sure if > > > > > > they're really bolivian rams > > > > > > > >> > or not ;) LOL. > > > > > > > >> > They aren't for sale yet > > > > though, they > > > > > > just got them yesterday, I > > > > > > > >> > was a bit grumpy that I have > > > > to find > > > > > > time later next week to come > > > > > > > >> > back and hope they still have > > > > them in > > > > > > stock :( Guess I will > > > > > > > >> > consider another route if that > > > > doesn't > > > > > > work out. > > > > > > > >> > Some days I hate my LFS. > > > > > > > >> > But I did buy a madagascar > > > > lace > > > > > > plant/bulb, it's already blooming > > > > > > > too. > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > >> > Amber > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ------------------------------------ > > > > > > > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when > > > > replying, Thank You. > > > > ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> > > > > ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> > > > > PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is > > > > NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of > > > > the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new > > > > subject (was re: old subject)" <- > > > > <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. > > > > , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. > > > > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. > > > > > > > > If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of > > > > unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by > > > > clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the home page. > > > > > > > > Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com > > <mailto:aquaticlife-digest%40yahoogroups.com> > > > <mailto:aquaticlife-digest%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > to receive the digest, which includes up to 25 posts at a > > > > time in a single email > > > > > > > > Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com > > <mailto:aquaticlife-nomail%40yahoogroups.com> > > > <mailto:aquaticlife-nomail%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > for the No E-Mail option where you will still be able to > > > > read messages on the group and post replies. > > > > > > > > Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com > > <mailto:aquaticlife-normal%40yahoogroups.com> > > > <mailto:aquaticlife-normal%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > to receive individual e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > > > > > > > mailto:AquaticLife-fullfeatured@yahoogroups.com > > <mailto:AquaticLife-fullfeatured%40yahoogroups.com> > > > <mailto:AquaticLife-fullfeatured%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > > > > > > > ------------------------------------ > > > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. > > ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> > > PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT > > important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message > > MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- > > <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. > > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. > > > > If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of unsubscribing, > > you can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My > > Membership" on the home page. > > > > Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com > > <mailto:aquaticlife-digest%40yahoogroups.com> to receive the digest, > > which includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email > > > > Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com > > <mailto:aquaticlife-nomail%40yahoogroups.com> for the No E-Mail option > > where you will still be able to read messages on the group and post > > replies. > > > > Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com > > <mailto:aquaticlife-normal%40yahoogroups.com> to receive individual > > e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 41576	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 6/28/2009
Subject: Re: 55 gallon community tank and crushed coral added results

Amber, Depending on the tank, you could see a change from 0.0 to about 0.5 in your pH daily. In a typical tank, you would see a change of about 0.2-0.3 on a daily basis. The change does happen gradually, and the fish can normally handle it very well. Rather than be overly concerned with pH, just watch your fish. If they start showing times of distress, then you might want to check the pH measuring at lights out and lights on each day for a period to determine the average daily swing. More than likely, though, the change in the fish can be attributed to something other than pH changes. \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Amber Berglund Sent: Sunday, June 28, 2009 10:45 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] 55 gallon community tank and crushed coral added results So will my pH only raise to a certain point or should I be watching it carefully? Amber Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > > > Yes, overnight, while the fish and ecosystem are putting out CO2, the CO2 > level will rise and the pH will fall. Once the lights are on for a while, > the plants will have started utilizing the CO2, through > photosynthesis, and > the CO2 levels will drop and the pH will rise. > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right > side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) > > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On > Behalf Of Amber Berglund > Sent: Sunday, June 28, 2009 5:07 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] 55 gallon community tank and crushed coral > added > results > > Oh forgot to say that the KH was 4 drops now. > > Amber > > Amber Berglund wrote: > > > > > > The last tests were all done in the evening just before lights out. I > > just did a test for pH this morning after the lights had been on for a > > couple hours (I forgot to do it before the lights came on). The pH was > > 7.2 this afternoon. > > What will cause the pH to raise exactly, is it the CO2? > > > > Amber > > > > Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > > > > > > > > > The rise from 6.8 pH to 7.0 pH over the course of a full day is > > nothing to > > > worry about. That is the most you would ever want to change your pH > > as an > > > immediate change but it's OK when fluctuating that much through the > > course > > > of a day. In fact, it's not uncommon for this to happen. > > > > > > Testing the pH first thing in the morning and then right before > > lights out > > > can matter for test results, but the lighting shouldn't really > > affect the > > > GH/KH test results. > > > > > > Did you do these tests at the same time of day or similar time? If > > > you tested the lower number first thing in the morning, it could > > > have been artificially lowered due to higher levels of CO2 in the > > > water. If the second test for 7.0 pH was done near the end of a day, > > > then the CO2 > > levels > > > would be much lower as the plants would have been using it up all day. > > > > > > Keep monitoring the GH, KH and pH levels over the coming days/weeks > > and be > > > prepared to remove some of the crushed coral from the filter system > > > if they keep climbing too much... or if the fish start showing > > > stress, since > > your > > > fish have been acclimated to your soft, acidic water for a while now. > > > > > > While the API test result instructions may have that "0 to 3 drops > > > equals 0 to 50ppm" type instruction, I would start going with each > > > drop equals > > > 1 dH, > > > which is the way that most other GH/KH test kits read. It's a lot > > simpler > > > that way. Then to convert dH to ppm, simply multiply by 18 (or even > > 20 for > > > simplicity... although the actual number is 1 dH = 17.9ppm). Using > > > the "20" > > > number makes things simple. 3 drops technically equals 53.7ppm > > (using 18 = > > > 54ppm, using 20 = 60ppm). Unless you are talking 10 or 20 drops, the > > > number difference is so small that it doesn't really matter. Now, if > > > API had something like that in their instructions, 1 drop = 0-20ppm, > > > 2 drops = 20-40ppm, 3 drops = 40-60ppm, that would be a more > > > realistic conversion range. > > > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>>> > > > (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the > > > right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by > > > Year, > > Month) > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On Behalf Of Amber Berglund > > > Sent: Saturday, June 27, 2009 11:03 PM > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > Subject: [AquaticLife] 55 gallon community tank and crushed coral > > > added results > > > > > > So after my PWC's the last couple of days and the added crushed > > > coral to the filter my pH now seems to have settled to 7. Yesterday > > > when I tested it was at 6.8. > > > None of the fish seem affected and all I did was add water and > > > crushed coral i didn't add any other chemicals besides the flourish > > > products. > > > All the fish seem very happy actually, no one is showing stress > > related to > > > pH so I guess the rise was gradual enough. > > > > > > KH now took 3 drops to change colors, which is 50ppm according to > > > the chart... > > > I will test the KH tomorrow and see if it has gone up any more. Also > > these > > > tests were both done just before lights out, if that matters. I can > > > test again in the morning before the lights come on to see what the pH > is. > > > > > > Amber > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 41577	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 6/28/2009
Subject: Re: 55 gallon community tank and crushed coral added results

It could keep rising so you should monitor it. If/when it starts to go higher than a level that you would prefer, then you would need to remove some of the crushed coral in your filter media bag. This is another reason for using a media bag. It's a lot easier to control and you don't have to pick up individual pieces of crushed coral out of your substrate. You could probably start removing 10% of the crushed coral from the media bag each week until you see the pH start to slow down and/or stabilize completely. After that, as the coral in the bag slowly dissolves, maybe once a month, top off the bag to the level that keeps your tank stable. With the new tank, if you mix a limited amount of crushed coral in with the Walstad substrate, that will not dissolve as fast or affect things as much and will probably last a lifetime in your substrate. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Amber Berglund Sent: Sunday, June 28, 2009 9:45 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] 55 gallon community tank and crushed coral added results So will my pH only raise to a certain point or should I be watching it carefully? Amber Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > > > Yes, overnight, while the fish and ecosystem are putting out CO2, the > CO2 level will rise and the pH will fall. Once the lights are on for a > while, the plants will have started utilizing the CO2, through > photosynthesis, and the CO2 levels will drop and the pH will rise. > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> (Links to any articles referenced in > above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels > and also under Archives by Year, Month) > > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On Behalf Of Amber Berglund > Sent: Sunday, June 28, 2009 5:07 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] 55 gallon community tank and crushed coral > added results > > Oh forgot to say that the KH was 4 drops now. > > Amber > > Amber Berglund wrote: > > > > > > The last tests were all done in the evening just before lights out. > > I just did a test for pH this morning after the lights had been on > > for a couple hours (I forgot to do it before the lights came on). > > The pH was > > 7.2 this afternoon. > > What will cause the pH to raise exactly, is it the CO2? > > > > Amber > > > > Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > > > > > > > > > The rise from 6.8 pH to 7.0 pH over the course of a full day is > > nothing to > > > worry about. That is the most you would ever want to change your > > > pH > > as an > > > immediate change but it's OK when fluctuating that much through > > > the > > course > > > of a day. In fact, it's not uncommon for this to happen. > > > > > > Testing the pH first thing in the morning and then right before > > lights out > > > can matter for test results, but the lighting shouldn't really > > affect the > > > GH/KH test results. > > > > > > Did you do these tests at the same time of day or similar time? If > > > you tested the lower number first thing in the morning, it could > > > have been artificially lowered due to higher levels of CO2 in the > > > water. If the second test for 7.0 pH was done near the end of a > > > day, then the CO2 > > levels > > > would be much lower as the plants would have been using it up all day. > > > > > > Keep monitoring the GH, KH and pH levels over the coming > > > days/weeks > > and be > > > prepared to remove some of the crushed coral from the filter > > > system if they keep climbing too much... or if the fish start > > > showing stress, since > > your > > > fish have been acclimated to your soft, acidic water for a while now. > > > > > > While the API test result instructions may have that "0 to 3 drops > > > equals 0 to 50ppm" type instruction, I would start going with each > > > drop equals > > > 1 dH, > > > which is the way that most other GH/KH test kits read. It's a lot > > simpler > > > that way. Then to convert dH to ppm, simply multiply by 18 (or > > > even > > 20 for > > > simplicity... although the actual number is 1 dH = 17.9ppm). Using > > > the "20" > > > number makes things simple. 3 drops technically equals 53.7ppm > > (using 18 = > > > 54ppm, using 20 = 60ppm). Unless you are talking 10 or 20 drops, > > > the number difference is so small that it doesn't really matter. > > > Now, if API had something like that in their instructions, 1 drop > > > = 0-20ppm, > > > 2 drops = 20-40ppm, 3 drops = 40-60ppm, that would be a more > > > realistic conversion range. > > > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>>> > > > (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the > > > right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by > > > Year, > > Month) > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On Behalf Of Amber > > > Berglund > > > Sent: Saturday, June 27, 2009 11:03 PM > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > Subject: [AquaticLife] 55 gallon community tank and crushed coral > > > added results > > > > > > So after my PWC's the last couple of days and the added crushed > > > coral to the filter my pH now seems to have settled to 7. > > > Yesterday when I tested it was at 6.8. > > > None of the fish seem affected and all I did was add water and > > > crushed coral i didn't add any other chemicals besides the > > > flourish products. > > > All the fish seem very happy actually, no one is showing stress > > related to > > > pH so I guess the rise was gradual enough. > > > > > > KH now took 3 drops to change colors, which is 50ppm according to > > > the chart... > > > I will test the KH tomorrow and see if it has gone up any more. > > > Also > > these > > > tests were both done just before lights out, if that matters. I > > > can test again in the morning before the lights come on to see > > > what the pH > is. > > > > > > Amber

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 41578	From: ladyjadewindrunner	Date: 6/29/2009
Subject: Re: What plants are best for removal of Nitrites and Nitrates? And o

Lenny and Steve- By Co3 I meant NO3, my apologies - as well as No2 not Co2. I was half asleep when I did that post. So so sorry. I use API's Freshwater Testing Kit which in my experience gives better results than, say, taking them to a pet store to test, and most pet stores these days are using the same thing. I don't have anything in my tank that would be raising the Ph, and when testing the water straight from tap the Ph shows the same reading. As far as filter maintenance goes I have an external filter(Hangs off the back of the tank) that filters 200GPH. I change the carbon filters in it every other water change and once a month rinse the biofilters in water extracted from the tank as opposed to new water that would kill off any beneficial bacterium within the filter itself. With as many guppies as I have in my tank I do a 10 to 20% water change twice a week. There are nitrates in our water however the readings only show about 25 ppm. The reason I was contemplating angels is because my father raised many of them in a 30 gallon tank(between 6 and 8 at a time in the tank as well as a large pleco and some mollies) and did exceptionally well, they bred successfully, and grew enormously. If angels aren't a good option, what would you recommend? The only fish I can think of off-hand that would appreciate an 8.1 ph range would be, say, African Cichlids. ... of which I know next to NOTHING about lol. I do greatly appreciate the plethora of information!!! Learn something new every day haha. Again I apologize about my mistake of co2 instead of no2, and thank you again for your information and time =)

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 41579	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 6/29/2009
Subject: Re: What plants are best for removal of Nitrites and Nitrates? And o

Are you saying that your tap water has 25ppm of nitrate or that your tank does? If it is your tap water, then you are probably using a well, not a municipal system, where EPA guidelines more than suggest a reading of less than 10ppm. If that is your tap water, then, no matter how many changes you do, you will never be below that level, unless your plants are able to utilize a good amount nitrates present. \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of ladyjadewindrunner Sent: Monday, June 29, 2009 4:27 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: What plants are best for removal of Nitrites and Nitrates? And other questions. Lenny and Steve- By Co3 I meant NO3, my apologies - as well as No2 not Co2. I was half asleep when I did that post. So so sorry. I use API's Freshwater Testing Kit which in my experience gives better results than, say, taking them to a pet store to test, and most pet stores these days are using the same thing. I don't have anything in my tank that would be raising the Ph, and when testing the water straight from tap the Ph shows the same reading. As far as filter maintenance goes I have an external filter(Hangs off the back of the tank) that filters 200GPH. I change the carbon filters in it every other water change and once a month rinse the biofilters in water extracted from the tank as opposed to new water that would kill off any beneficial bacterium within the filter itself. With as many guppies as I have in my tank I do a 10 to 20% water change twice a week. There are nitrates in our water however the readings only show about 25 ppm. The reason I was contemplating angels is because my father raised many of them in a 30 gallon tank(between 6 and 8 at a time in the tank as well as a large pleco and some mollies) and did exceptionally well, they bred successfully, and grew enormously. If angels aren't a good option, what would you recommend? The only fish I can think of off-hand that would appreciate an 8.1 ph range would be, say, African Cichlids. ... of which I know next to NOTHING about lol. I do greatly appreciate the plethora of information!!! Learn something new every day haha. Again I apologize about my mistake of co2 instead of no2, and thank you again for your information and time =)

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 41580	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 6/29/2009
Subject: Re: Rams! and LFS rant.

Amber, Maybe he gets a lot of international business from that "International" airport you have right across the water from town. \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Amber Berglund Sent: Sunday, June 28, 2009 4:51 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Rams! and LFS rant. Heh, very good point there \\Steve//, small island, closed quarters, I'm amazed we have a fish store at all ;) Amber Steve Szabo wrote: > > > Bill, > > Ever look at her town on Google Earth? She's lucky enough to have that > one pet store there for the size of the population on that island. > > \\Steve// > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On Behalf Of bill 1433 > Sent: Sunday, June 28, 2009 4:17 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Rams! and LFS rant. > > Then there only seems to be one real answer? > Create high demand! > How? Have some folks over to look at your beautiful tanks! > Especially that 125. > > I'll never forget the fist time I saw one. Even though, with the size > of our current house, I could never have one, it does not stop me from > dreaming about it. People that don't know much about fish or how they > are cared for really enjoy seeing a beautiful tank setup and running. > After that first look, stand by for the questions! Remember that fish > do not need to be let out or walked. They don't need their litter > boxes changed either.. > > The first question us usually: Can I have one of those in our house? > This is also good if the people have children. Once there is an > interest, some smart guy is going to figure a way to make a buck and > capitalize on it, count on that! It's what made this country great. > > Bill > > --- On Sun, 6/28/09, Amber Berglund <amber@... > <mailto:amber%40rose-fields.com>> wrote: > > From: Amber Berglund <amber@... > <mailto:amber%40rose-fields.com>> > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Rams! and LFS rant. > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Date: Sunday, June 28, 2009, 3:47 PM > > Lol, no I have a front porch that's not covered or heated, but I do have > an unheated storage unit without power as well ;) I don't think any of > those will help me out. > The reason we don't have any competition is because there doesn't seem > to be a high demand for pet stores on this island, they all end up out > of business. > > Amber > > Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > > > > > > If Amber's Angelfish ever get down to business and quit eating their > > eggs/fry, maybe she'll be the competition on that Alaskan island... at > > least > > for Angelfish. Do you have a garage with your condo? ;) > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>> > > (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right > > side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, > Month) > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On > > Behalf Of Harl Myers > > Sent: Sunday, June 28, 2009 1:38 PM > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Rams! and LFS rant. > > > > Well, that just sucks! They certainly need some competition... > > > > On Sun, Jun 28, 2009 at 1:54 PM, Amber > Berglund<amber@... <mailto:amber%40rose-fields.com> > > <mailto:amber%40rose-fields.com>> > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > I tried that tactic, I said, "Can I prepay for any of them?" She said > > > no, "I said I'll buy them without a guarantee then since you just got > > > them" She said no, "I said, but I really want rams and I don't have > > > time to go shopping out here during the week, so I'll be lucky if > > > they're all still here by the time I get back out here..." She said > > > Sorry... LOL > > > > > > Amber > > > > > > Harl Myers wrote: > > >> > > >> > > >> Being a good customer, could you not just pay ahead for a pair, and > > >> if they do not last to sale, get a refund. If 2 make it to sale, the > > >> could be marked as sold. That way you get yours... > > >> > > >> On Sat, Jun 27, 2009 at 9:20 PM, Amber > > Berglund<amber@... <mailto:amber%40rose-fields.com> > <mailto:amber%40rose-fields.com> > > >> <mailto:amber%40rose-fields.com>> wrote: > > >> > > > >> > > > >> > Well my LFS got Rams in stock again, they look like the same kind > > >> > as last time, though I'm not sure if they're really bolivian rams > > >> > or not ;) LOL. > > >> > They aren't for sale yet though, they just got them yesterday, I > > >> > was a bit grumpy that I have to find time later next week to come > > >> > back and hope they still have them in stock :( Guess I will > > >> > consider another route if that doesn't work out. > > >> > Some days I hate my LFS. > > >> > But I did buy a madagascar lace plant/bulb, it's already blooming > > too. > > >> > > > >> > Amber > > > > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 41581	From: bill 1433	Date: 6/29/2009
Subject: Re: Rams! and LFS rant.

They are currently offerd here in Northeasteren pa at $20 but I have only seen the offer not the fish. I have no idea what size they are. Bill --- On Sun, 6/28/09, William <dreammaker2623@...> wrote: > From: William <dreammaker2623@...> > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Rams! and LFS rant. > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Date: Sunday, June 28, 2009, 10:36 PM > Last week the lfs had a shipment of 5 > of these new electric > c blue rams and they were going t be sold at $125.00 each. > They will be swimming around in that store for a while. > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, > Amber Berglund <amber@...> wrote: > > > > Did you look at the ram's though Bill? They're a > different color than > > normal, I haven't seen these ones before... I'm not > surprised that > > they're being sold as male's only ;) > > > > Amber > > > > bill 1433 wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > Amber, > > >  > > > Quite sometime ago a very nice person named Pam > Andres (spelling?) put > > > me onto Aquabid and a good seller.  Type in > Blueram06. > > > > > > When you get to their page check out his selling > scores, they are > > > unreal!  Never mind I have it up on another > page, just go here: > > > http://www.aquabid.com/cgi-bin/auction/search.cgi > > > <http://www.aquabid.com/cgi-bin/auction/search.cgi> > > >  > > > Bill > > > > > > --- On Sun, 6/28/09, Amber Berglund <amber@... > > > > <mailto:amber%40rose-fields.com>> > wrote: > > > > > > From: Amber Berglund <amber@... > > > <mailto:amber%40rose-fields.com>> > > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Rams! and LFS rant. > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > Date: Sunday, June 28, 2009, 9:01 PM > > > > > > Hey bill check these Ram's out, I love 'em but > they're male only and 25 > > > each, ouch! > > > http://www.aquabid.com/cgi-bin/auction/auction.cgi?fwcichlids&1247192395 > > > > <http://www.aquabid.com/cgi-bin/auction/auction.cgi?fwcichlids&1247192395> > > > > > > Amber > > > > > > bill 1433 wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > Yes Mam! > > > > > > > > You must have been here before! > > > > > > > > Bill > > > > > > > > mber@... > <mailto:mber%40rose-fields.com> > > > <mailto:mber%40rose-fields.com>> wrote: > > > > > > > > > From: Amber Berglund <amber@... > > > <mailto:amber%40rose-fields.com> > > > > <mailto:amber%40rose-fields.com>> > > > > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Rams! and > LFS rant. > > > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > Date: Sunday, June 28, 2009, 5:43 PM > > > > > Sure it's accessible from the > > > > > mainland... from a plane... or a boat > ;) LOL. > > > > > Bill, Where's your city population > sign, is it on the same > > > > > sign post? LOL > > > > > > > > > > Amber > > > > > > > > > > Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > The difference is that a delivery > truck can pull up to > > > > > your town. Amber's > > > > > > not so lucky.... it's the price > you pay for living on > > > > > a tropical island... > > > > > > when it's not a frozen tundra. > LOL > > > > > > > > > > > > Amber, > > > > > > > > > > > > Is the land across from your > island accessible from > > > > > the mainland or is > > > > > > that > > > > > > just another bigger island... you > know, the one where > > > > > your "International > > > > > > Airport" is located. LOL > > > > > > > > > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > > > > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>> > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>>> > > > > > > (Links to any articles referenced > in above reply are > > > > > listed on the right > > > > > > side, alphabetically under Labels > and also under > > > > > Archives by Year, Month) > > > > > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > > > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On > > > > > > Behalf Of bill 1433 > > > > > > Sent: Sunday, June 28, 2009 4:28 > PM > > > > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Rams! > and LFS rant. > > > > > > > > > > > > So what! > > > > > > > > > > > > My town is that small we have the > two > > > > > > > > > > > > "City Limit Signs" on one post! > > > > > > > > > > > > Bill > > > > > > > > > > > > --- On Sun, 6/28/09, Steve Szabo > <steve@... > > > <mailto:steve%40familyszabo.com> > > > > <mailto:steve%40familyszabo.com> > > > > > > > > > > > > <mailto:steve%40familyszabo.com>> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > From: Steve Szabo > <steve@... > > > <mailto:steve%40familyszabo.com> > > > > <mailto:steve%40familyszabo.com> > > > > > > > > > > > > <mailto:steve%40familyszabo.com>> > > > > > > > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] > Rams! and LFS rant. > > > > > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > Date: Sunday, June 28, 2009, > 4:48 PM > > > > > > > Bill, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Ever look at her town on > Google Earth? She's > > > > > lucky enough to have that > > > > > > > one pet store there for the > size of the > > > > > population on that island. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > \\Steve// > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > > > > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] > > > > > > > On Behalf Of bill 1433 > > > > > > > Sent: Sunday, June 28, 2009 > 4:17 PM > > > > > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] > Rams! and LFS rant. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Then there only seems to be > one real answer? > > > > > Create high demand! > > > > > > > How?  Have some folks > over to look at your > > > > > beautiful tanks! > > > > > > > Especially that 125. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I'll never forget the fist > time I saw one. > > > > > Even though, with the size > > > > > > > of our current house, I could > never have one, it > > > > > does not stop me from > > > > > > > dreaming about it.  > People that don't know > > > > > much about fish or how they > > > > > > > are cared for really enjoy > seeing a beautiful > > > > > tank setup and running. > > > > > > > After that first look, stand > by for the > > > > > questions!  Remember that fish > > > > > > > do not need to be let out or > walked.  They > > > > > don't need their litter > > > > > > > boxes changed either.. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > The first question us > usually:  Can I have > > > > > one of those in our house? > > > > > > > This is also good if the > people have > > > > > children.  Once there is an > > > > > > > interest, some smart guy is > going to figure a way > > > > > to make a buck and > > > > > > > capitalize on it, count on > that!  It's what > > > > > made this country great. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Bill > > > > > > > > > > > > > > --- On Sun, 6/28/09, Amber > Berglund <amber@... > > > <mailto:amber%40rose-fields.com> > > > > <mailto:amber%40rose-fields.com> > > > > > > > > > > > > <mailto:amber%40rose-fields.com>> > > > > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > From: Amber Berglund > <amber@... > > > <mailto:amber%40rose-fields.com> > > > > <mailto:amber%40rose-fields.com> > > > > > > > > > > > > <mailto:amber%40rose-fields.com>> > > > > > > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] > Rams! and LFS rant. > > > > > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > Date: Sunday, June 28, 2009, > 3:47 PM > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Lol, no I have a front porch > that's not covered > > > > > or heated, but I do > > > > > > > have an unheated storage unit > without power as > > > > > well ;) I don't think > > > > > > > any of those will help me > out. > > > > > > > The reason we don't have any > competition is > > > > > because there doesn't seem > > > > > > > to be a high demand for pet > stores on this > > > > > island, they all end up out > > > > > > > of business. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Amber > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Lenny V. aka GoldLenny > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > If Amber's Angelfish > ever get down to > > > > > business and > > > > > > > quit eating their > > > > > > > > eggs/fry, maybe she'll > be the competition on > > > > > that > > > > > > > Alaskan island... at > > > > > > > > least > > > > > > > > for Angelfish. Do you > have a garage with > > > > > your condo? > > > > > > > ;) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > > > > > > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>> > > > > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>>> > > > > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>> > > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>>>> > > > > > > > > (Links to any articles > referenced in above > > > > > reply are > > > > > > > listed on the right > > > > > > > > side, alphabetically > under Labels and also > > > > > under > > > > > > > Archives by Year, Month) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -----Original > Message----- > > > > > > > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On > > > > > > > > Behalf Of Harl Myers > > > > > > > > Sent: Sunday, June 28, > 2009 1:38 PM > > > > > > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > > Subject: Re: > [AquaticLife] Rams! and LFS > > > > > rant. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Well, that just sucks! > They certainly need > > > > > some > > > > > > > competition... > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > On Sun, Jun 28, 2009 at > 1:54 PM, Amber > > > > > > Berglund<amber@... > <mailto:amber%40rose-fields.com> > > > <mailto:amber%40rose-fields.com> > > > > > <mailto:amber%40rose-fields.com> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > <mailto:amber%40rose-fields.com>> > > > > > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I tried that > tactic, I said, "Can I > > > > > prepay for > > > > > > > any of them?" She said > > > > > > > > > no, "I said I'll > buy them without a > > > > > guarantee > > > > > > > then since you just got > > > > > > > > > them" She said no, > "I said, but I > > > > > really want > > > > > > > rams and I don't have > > > > > > > > > time to go shopping > out here during the > > > > > week, so > > > > > > > I'll be lucky if > > > > > > > > > they're all still > here by the time I > > > > > get back out > > > > > > > here..." She said > > > > > > > > > Sorry... LOL > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Amber > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Harl Myers wrote: > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > >> Being a good > customer, could you > > > > > not just pay > > > > > > > ahead for a pair, and > > > > > > > > >> if they do not > last to sale, get a > > > > > refund. If > > > > > > > 2 make it to sale, the > > > > > > > > >> could be marked > as sold. That way > > > > > you get > > > > > > > yours... > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > >> On Sat, Jun 27, > 2009 at 9:20 PM, > > > > > Amber > > > > > > > > Berglund<amber@... > > > <mailto:amber%40rose-fields.com> > <mailto:amber%40rose-fields.com> > > > > > <mailto:amber%40rose-fields.com> > > > > > > > > <mailto:amber%40rose-fields.com> > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > <mailto:amber%40rose-fields.com>> > > > > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > >> > Well my > LFS got Rams in stock > > > > > again, > > > > > > > they look like the same kind > > > > > > > > >> > as last > time, though I'm not > > > > > sure if > > > > > > > they're really bolivian rams > > > > > > > > >> > or not ;) > LOL. > > > > > > > > >> > They > aren't for sale yet > > > > > though, they > > > > > > > just got them yesterday, I > > > > > > > > >> > was a bit > grumpy that I have > > > > > to find > > > > > > > time later next week to come > > > > > > > > >> > back and > hope they still have > > > > > them in > > > > > > > stock :( Guess I will > > > > > > > > >> > consider > another route if that > > > > > doesn't > > > > > > > work out. > > > > > > > > >> > Some days > I hate my LFS. > > > > > > > > >> > But I did > buy a madagascar > > > > > lace > > > > > > > plant/bulb, it's already > blooming > > > > > > > > too. > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > >> > Amber > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ------------------------------------ > > > > > > > > > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING > below it when > > > > > replying, Thank You. > > > > > > ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> > > > > > ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , > .·´¯`·..><((((º> > > > > > PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, > DELETE all TEXT that is > > > > > NOT important to the reply & if > CHANGING the TOPIC of > > > > > the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT > LINE -> i.e. "new > > > > > subject (was re: old subject)" <- > > > > > > <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. > > > > > , > .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. > > > > > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP > in this matter. > > > > > > > > > > If you do not want all of the groups > emails, instead of > > > > > unsubscribing, you can change your > delivery option by > > > > > clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the > home page. > > > > > > > > > > Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com > > > > > <mailto:aquaticlife-digest%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > <mailto:aquaticlife-digest%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > to receive the digest, which includes > up to 25 posts at a > > > > > time in a single email > > > > > > > > > > Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com > > > > > <mailto:aquaticlife-nomail%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > <mailto:aquaticlife-nomail%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > for the No E-Mail option where you will > still be able to > > > > > read messages on the group and post > replies. > > > > > > > > > > Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com > > > > > <mailto:aquaticlife-normal%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > <mailto:aquaticlife-normal%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > to receive individual e-mails.Yahoo! > Groups Links > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >     mailto:AquaticLife-fullfeatured@yahoogroups.com > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife-fullfeatured%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife-fullfeatured%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been > removed] > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ------------------------------------ > > > > > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it > when replying, Thank You. > > > > ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> > ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> > > > PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT > that is NOT > > > important to the reply & if CHANGING the > TOPIC of the original message > > > MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject > (was re: old subject)" <- > > > > <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. > , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. > > > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this > matter. > > > > > > If you do not want all of the groups emails, > instead of unsubscribing, > > > you can change your delivery option by clicking > on "Edit My > > > Membership" on the home page. > > > > > > Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com > > > > > <mailto:aquaticlife-digest%40yahoogroups.com> to > receive the digest, > > > which includes up to 25 posts at a time in a > single email > > > > > > Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com > > > > > <mailto:aquaticlife-nomail%40yahoogroups.com> for the > No E-Mail option > > > where you will still be able to read messages on > the group and post > > > replies. > > > > > > Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com > > > > > <mailto:aquaticlife-normal%40yahoogroups.com> to > receive individual > > > e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > > > > > > > > ------------------------------------ > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when > replying, Thank You. > ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> > ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> > PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is > NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of > the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new > subject (was re: old subject)" <- > <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. > , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. > > If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of > unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by > clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the home page.  > > Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com > to receive the digest, which includes up to 25 posts at a > time in a single email > > Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com > for the No E-Mail option where you will still be able to > read messages on the group and post replies. > > Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com > to receive individual e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links > > >     mailto:AquaticLife-fullfeatured@yahoogroups.com > > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 41582	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 6/29/2009
Subject: Re: What plants are best for removal of Nitrites and Nitrates? And o

That's why it's best to use ammonia, nitrite and nitrate. ;-) It would be OK to follow ammonia with (NH3), then nitrite with (NO2-)(note that there is a minus sign behind the 2), then nitrate with (NO3-)(same minus sign). Your nitrate (NO3-) level of between 80-100ppm is HIGH but not at an alarming level. Because you have a heavy bioload in the tank, you should increase the tank maintenance schedule to doing at least two 25% PWC's each week and if that doesn't keep the nitrate level down to a level closer to 25ppm (you will not get it below 25ppm since your tap water has 25ppm... which is above the EPA standards), then you might have to do three 25% PWC's each week... or rehome some of your fish to lessen the bioload on the tank. Yes, getting a lot of fast growing plants (Anacharis is one I like) will help but while the plants will help with removing the nitrates and if you have enough plants, they might even get the nitrates below the 25ppm level but there are many other pollutants caused by a heavy bioload that the plants do not take in and that we are not able to easily test for, including HIGH hormone/pheromone levels that the fish excrete. Doing PWC's is one of the simplest ways to remove/dilute these pollutants and also to add fresh clean water to our fishes ecosystem. PWC's are our way of trying to duplicate rain, river flow and tides... which are God's way of doing PWC's... but it's hard to compete with the Big Fish Keeper In The Sky. He's been doing this a lot longer than us. LOL ;-) Since you do run carbon in your filter system, it's good that you change it frequently. You might want to look into using Purigen as a replacement for carbon. It would be much less expensive and it's better. In most tanks, chemical filtration is not needed but in heavily stocked tanks, Purigen (or one of the other modern chemical filtration medias) does a MUCH better job of cleaning the impurities out of the water. This is not a substitute for doing PWC's, just a little something extra to try and keep the water a little cleaner between PWC's. Purigen would be much less costly than carbon. A single 100ml packet (contained in it's own filter media bag) would last a LONG time. You do not throw it away. It can be cleaned/recharged over and over. It turns to a dark brown as it gets "dirty" so you know when it's time to recharge/clean the Purigen. Read more about my experience with Purigen in my article on "Filter Maintenance And Cleaning"... in the "Chemical Filtration" section. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of ladyjadewindrunner Sent: Monday, June 29, 2009 3:27 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: What plants are best for removal of Nitrites and Nitrates? And other questions. Lenny and Steve- By Co3 I meant NO3, my apologies - as well as No2 not Co2. I was half asleep when I did that post. So so sorry. I use API's Freshwater Testing Kit which in my experience gives better results than, say, taking them to a pet store to test, and most pet stores these days are using the same thing. I don't have anything in my tank that would be raising the Ph, and when testing the water straight from tap the Ph shows the same reading. As far as filter maintenance goes I have an external filter(Hangs off the back of the tank) that filters 200GPH. I change the carbon filters in it every other water change and once a month rinse the biofilters in water extracted from the tank as opposed to new water that would kill off any beneficial bacterium within the filter itself. With as many guppies as I have in my tank I do a 10 to 20% water change twice a week. There are nitrates in our water however the readings only show about 25 ppm. The reason I was contemplating angels is because my father raised many of them in a 30 gallon tank(between 6 and 8 at a time in the tank as well as a large pleco and some mollies) and did exceptionally well, they bred successfully, and grew enormously. If angels aren't a good option, what would you recommend? The only fish I can think of off-hand that would appreciate an 8.1 ph range would be, say, African Cichlids. ... of which I know next to NOTHING about lol. I do greatly appreciate the plethora of information!!! Learn something new every day haha. Again I apologize about my mistake of co2 instead of no2, and thank you again for your information and time =)

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 41583	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 6/29/2009
Subject: Re: 55 gallon community tank and crushed coral added results

Is any amount of copper safe for snails at all? I noticed that some of the flourish products have added copper, but it's like .0007 % or something like that. Amber Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > > > It could keep rising so you should monitor it. If/when it starts to go > higher than a level that you would prefer, then you would need to remove > some of the crushed coral in your filter media bag. This is another reason > for using a media bag. It's a lot easier to control and you don't have to > pick up individual pieces of crushed coral out of your substrate. > > You could probably start removing 10% of the crushed coral from the media > bag each week until you see the pH start to slow down and/or stabilize > completely. After that, as the coral in the bag slowly dissolves, maybe > once a month, top off the bag to the level that keeps your tank stable. > > With the new tank, if you mix a limited amount of crushed coral in > with the > Walstad substrate, that will not dissolve as fast or affect things as much > and will probably last a lifetime in your substrate. > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right > side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On > Behalf Of Amber Berglund > Sent: Sunday, June 28, 2009 9:45 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] 55 gallon community tank and crushed coral > added > results > > So will my pH only raise to a certain point or should I be watching it > carefully? > > Amber > > Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > > > > > > Yes, overnight, while the fish and ecosystem are putting out CO2, the > > CO2 level will rise and the pH will fall. Once the lights are on for a > > while, the plants will have started utilizing the CO2, through > > photosynthesis, and the CO2 levels will drop and the pH will rise. > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>> > (Links to any articles referenced in > > above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels > > and also under Archives by Year, Month) > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On Behalf Of Amber Berglund > > Sent: Sunday, June 28, 2009 5:07 PM > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] 55 gallon community tank and crushed coral > > added results > > > > Oh forgot to say that the KH was 4 drops now. > > > > Amber > > > > Amber Berglund wrote: > > > > > > > > > The last tests were all done in the evening just before lights out. > > > I just did a test for pH this morning after the lights had been on > > > for a couple hours (I forgot to do it before the lights came on). > > > The pH was > > > 7.2 this afternoon. > > > What will cause the pH to raise exactly, is it the CO2? > > > > > > Amber > > > > > > Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > The rise from 6.8 pH to 7.0 pH over the course of a full day is > > > nothing to > > > > worry about. That is the most you would ever want to change your > > > > pH > > > as an > > > > immediate change but it's OK when fluctuating that much through > > > > the > > > course > > > > of a day. In fact, it's not uncommon for this to happen. > > > > > > > > Testing the pH first thing in the morning and then right before > > > lights out > > > > can matter for test results, but the lighting shouldn't really > > > affect the > > > > GH/KH test results. > > > > > > > > Did you do these tests at the same time of day or similar time? If > > > > you tested the lower number first thing in the morning, it could > > > > have been artificially lowered due to higher levels of CO2 in the > > > > water. If the second test for 7.0 pH was done near the end of a > > > > day, then the CO2 > > > levels > > > > would be much lower as the plants would have been using it up > all day. > > > > > > > > Keep monitoring the GH, KH and pH levels over the coming > > > > days/weeks > > > and be > > > > prepared to remove some of the crushed coral from the filter > > > > system if they keep climbing too much... or if the fish start > > > > showing stress, since > > > your > > > > fish have been acclimated to your soft, acidic water for a while > now. > > > > > > > > While the API test result instructions may have that "0 to 3 drops > > > > equals 0 to 50ppm" type instruction, I would start going with each > > > > drop equals > > > > 1 dH, > > > > which is the way that most other GH/KH test kits read. It's a lot > > > simpler > > > > that way. Then to convert dH to ppm, simply multiply by 18 (or > > > > even > > > 20 for > > > > simplicity... although the actual number is 1 dH = 17.9ppm). Using > > > > the "20" > > > > number makes things simple. 3 drops technically equals 53.7ppm > > > (using 18 = > > > > 54ppm, using 20 = 60ppm). Unless you are talking 10 or 20 drops, > > > > the number difference is so small that it doesn't really matter. > > > > Now, if API had something like that in their instructions, 1 drop > > > > = 0-20ppm, > > > > 2 drops = 20-40ppm, 3 drops = 40-60ppm, that would be a more > > > > realistic conversion range. > > > > > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>> > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>>> > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>> > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>>>> > > > > (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the > > > > right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by > > > > Year, > > > Month) > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On Behalf Of Amber > > > > Berglund > > > > Sent: Saturday, June 27, 2009 11:03 PM > > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > Subject: [AquaticLife] 55 gallon community tank and crushed coral > > > > added results > > > > > > > > So after my PWC's the last couple of days and the added crushed > > > > coral to the filter my pH now seems to have settled to 7. > > > > Yesterday when I tested it was at 6.8. > > > > None of the fish seem affected and all I did was add water and > > > > crushed coral i didn't add any other chemicals besides the > > > > flourish products. > > > > All the fish seem very happy actually, no one is showing stress > > > related to > > > > pH so I guess the rise was gradual enough. > > > > > > > > KH now took 3 drops to change colors, which is 50ppm according to > > > > the chart... > > > > I will test the KH tomorrow and see if it has gone up any more. > > > > Also > > > these > > > > tests were both done just before lights out, if that matters. I > > > > can test again in the morning before the lights come on to see > > > > what the pH > > is. > > > > > > > > Amber > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 41584	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 6/29/2009
Subject: Re: 55 gallon community tank and crushed coral added results

More than likely, that amount is OK but I would check with SeaChem or maybe they already have it answered on the FAQ's section for the product. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Amber Berglund Sent: Monday, June 29, 2009 2:04 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] 55 gallon community tank and crushed coral added results Is any amount of copper safe for snails at all? I noticed that some of the flourish products have added copper, but it's like .0007 % or something like that. Amber Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > > > It could keep rising so you should monitor it. If/when it starts to go > higher than a level that you would prefer, then you would need to > remove some of the crushed coral in your filter media bag. This is > another reason for using a media bag. It's a lot easier to control and > you don't have to pick up individual pieces of crushed coral out of your substrate. > > You could probably start removing 10% of the crushed coral from the > media bag each week until you see the pH start to slow down and/or > stabilize completely. After that, as the coral in the bag slowly > dissolves, maybe once a month, top off the bag to the level that keeps your tank stable. > > With the new tank, if you mix a limited amount of crushed coral in > with the Walstad substrate, that will not dissolve as fast or affect > things as much and will probably last a lifetime in your substrate. > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> (Links to any articles referenced in > above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels > and also under Archives by Year, Month) > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On Behalf Of Amber Berglund > Sent: Sunday, June 28, 2009 9:45 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] 55 gallon community tank and crushed coral > added results > > So will my pH only raise to a certain point or should I be watching it > carefully? > > Amber > > Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > > > > > > Yes, overnight, while the fish and ecosystem are putting out CO2, > > the > > CO2 level will rise and the pH will fall. Once the lights are on for > > a while, the plants will have started utilizing the CO2, through > > photosynthesis, and the CO2 levels will drop and the pH will rise. > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>> > (Links to any articles referenced in > > above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under > > Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On Behalf Of Amber Berglund > > Sent: Sunday, June 28, 2009 5:07 PM > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] 55 gallon community tank and crushed > > coral added results > > > > Oh forgot to say that the KH was 4 drops now. > > > > Amber > > > > Amber Berglund wrote: > > > > > > > > > The last tests were all done in the evening just before lights out. > > > I just did a test for pH this morning after the lights had been on > > > for a couple hours (I forgot to do it before the lights came on). > > > The pH was > > > 7.2 this afternoon. > > > What will cause the pH to raise exactly, is it the CO2? > > > > > > Amber > > > > > > Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > The rise from 6.8 pH to 7.0 pH over the course of a full day is > > > nothing to > > > > worry about. That is the most you would ever want to change your > > > > pH > > > as an > > > > immediate change but it's OK when fluctuating that much through > > > > the > > > course > > > > of a day. In fact, it's not uncommon for this to happen. > > > > > > > > Testing the pH first thing in the morning and then right before > > > lights out > > > > can matter for test results, but the lighting shouldn't really > > > affect the > > > > GH/KH test results. > > > > > > > > Did you do these tests at the same time of day or similar time? > > > > If you tested the lower number first thing in the morning, it > > > > could have been artificially lowered due to higher levels of CO2 > > > > in the water. If the second test for 7.0 pH was done near the > > > > end of a day, then the CO2 > > > levels > > > > would be much lower as the plants would have been using it up > all day. > > > > > > > > Keep monitoring the GH, KH and pH levels over the coming > > > > days/weeks > > > and be > > > > prepared to remove some of the crushed coral from the filter > > > > system if they keep climbing too much... or if the fish start > > > > showing stress, since > > > your > > > > fish have been acclimated to your soft, acidic water for a while > now. > > > > > > > > While the API test result instructions may have that "0 to 3 > > > > drops equals 0 to 50ppm" type instruction, I would start going > > > > with each drop equals > > > > 1 dH, > > > > which is the way that most other GH/KH test kits read. It's a > > > > lot > > > simpler > > > > that way. Then to convert dH to ppm, simply multiply by 18 (or > > > > even > > > 20 for > > > > simplicity... although the actual number is 1 dH = 17.9ppm). > > > > Using the "20" > > > > number makes things simple. 3 drops technically equals 53.7ppm > > > (using 18 = > > > > 54ppm, using 20 = 60ppm). Unless you are talking 10 or 20 drops, > > > > the number difference is so small that it doesn't really matter. > > > > Now, if API had something like that in their instructions, 1 > > > > drop = 0-20ppm, > > > > 2 drops = 20-40ppm, 3 drops = 40-60ppm, that would be a more > > > > realistic conversion range. > > > > > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>> > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>>> > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>> > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>>>> > > > > (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on > > > > the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under > > > > Archives by Year, > > > Month) > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On Behalf Of Amber > > > > Berglund > > > > Sent: Saturday, June 27, 2009 11:03 PM > > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > Subject: [AquaticLife] 55 gallon community tank and crushed > > > > coral added results > > > > > > > > So after my PWC's the last couple of days and the added crushed > > > > coral to the filter my pH now seems to have settled to 7. > > > > Yesterday when I tested it was at 6.8. > > > > None of the fish seem affected and all I did was add water and > > > > crushed coral i didn't add any other chemicals besides the > > > > flourish products. > > > > All the fish seem very happy actually, no one is showing stress > > > related to > > > > pH so I guess the rise was gradual enough. > > > > > > > > KH now took 3 drops to change colors, which is 50ppm according > > > > to the chart... > > > > I will test the KH tomorrow and see if it has gone up any more. > > > > Also > > > these > > > > tests were both done just before lights out, if that matters. I > > > > can test again in the morning before the lights come on to see > > > > what the pH > > is. > > > > > > > > Amber > > ------------------------------------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the home page. Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com to receive the digest, which includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com for the No E-Mail option where you will still be able to read messages on the group and post replies. Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com to receive individual e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 41585	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 6/29/2009
Subject: Re: Rams! and LFS rant.

Can't wait to get my new german rams, I'm getting 3 sexed pairs, some salt and pepper cory's, and some female beeding hearts for my poor lonely males ;) Will let you guys know how it goes on wednesday when I get them all :) Amber bill 1433 wrote: > > > > They are currently offerd here in Northeasteren pa at $20 but I have > only seen the offer not the fish. I have no idea what size they are. > > Bill > > --- On Sun, 6/28/09, William <dreammaker2623@... > <mailto:dreammaker2623%40yahoo.com>> wrote: > > > From: William <dreammaker2623@... > <mailto:dreammaker2623%40yahoo.com>> > > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Rams! and LFS rant. > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > Date: Sunday, June 28, 2009, 10:36 PM > > Last week the lfs had a shipment of 5 > > of these new electric > > c blue rams and they were going t be sold at $125.00 each. > > They will be swimming around in that store for a while. > > > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>, > > Amber Berglund <amber@...> wrote: > > > > > > Did you look at the ram's though Bill? They're a > > different color than > > > normal, I haven't seen these ones before... I'm not > > surprised that > > > they're being sold as male's only ;) > > > > > > Amber > > > > > > bill 1433 wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Amber, > > > > > > > > Quite sometime ago a very nice person named Pam > > Andres (spelling?) put > > > > me onto Aquabid and a good seller. Type in > > Blueram06. > > > > > > > > When you get to their page check out his selling > > scores, they are > > > > unreal! Never mind I have it up on another > > page, just go here: > > > > http://www.aquabid.com/cgi-bin/auction/search.cgi > <http://www.aquabid.com/cgi-bin/auction/search.cgi> > > > > <http://www.aquabid.com/cgi-bin/auction/search.cgi > <http://www.aquabid.com/cgi-bin/auction/search.cgi>> > > > > > > > > Bill > > > > > > > > --- On Sun, 6/28/09, Amber Berglund <amber@... > > > > > > <mailto:amber%40rose-fields.com>> > > wrote: > > > > > > > > From: Amber Berglund <amber@... > > > > <mailto:amber%40rose-fields.com>> > > > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Rams! and LFS rant. > > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > Date: Sunday, June 28, 2009, 9:01 PM > > > > > > > > Hey bill check these Ram's out, I love 'em but > > they're male only and 25 > > > > each, ouch! > > > > > http://www.aquabid.com/cgi-bin/auction/auction.cgi?fwcichlids&1247192395 > <http://www.aquabid.com/cgi-bin/auction/auction.cgi?fwcichlids&1247192395> > > > > > > > <http://www.aquabid.com/cgi-bin/auction/auction.cgi?fwcichlids&1247192395 > <http://www.aquabid.com/cgi-bin/auction/auction.cgi?fwcichlids&1247192395>> > > > > > > > > Amber > > > > > > > > bill 1433 wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Yes Mam! > > > > > > > > > > You must have been here before! > > > > > > > > > > Bill > > > > > > > > > > mber@... > > <mailto:mber%40rose-fields.com> > > > > <mailto:mber%40rose-fields.com>> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > From: Amber Berglund <amber@... > > > > <mailto:amber%40rose-fields.com> > > > > > <mailto:amber%40rose-fields.com>> > > > > > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Rams! and > > LFS rant. > > > > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > Date: Sunday, June 28, 2009, 5:43 PM > > > > > > Sure it's accessible from the > > > > > > mainland... from a plane... or a boat > > ;) LOL. > > > > > > Bill, Where's your city population > > sign, is it on the same > > > > > > sign post? LOL > > > > > > > > > > > > Amber > > > > > > > > > > > > Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > The difference is that a delivery > > truck can pull up to > > > > > > your town. Amber's > > > > > > > not so lucky.... it's the price > > you pay for living on > > > > > > a tropical island... > > > > > > > when it's not a frozen tundra. > > LOL > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Amber, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Is the land across from your > > island accessible from > > > > > > the mainland or is > > > > > > > that > > > > > > > just another bigger island... you > > know, the one where > > > > > > your "International > > > > > > > Airport" is located. LOL > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > > > > > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>> > > > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>>> > > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>> > > > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>>>> > > > > > > > (Links to any articles referenced > > in above reply are > > > > > > listed on the right > > > > > > > side, alphabetically under Labels > > and also under > > > > > > Archives by Year, Month) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > > > > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On > > > > > > > Behalf Of bill 1433 > > > > > > > Sent: Sunday, June 28, 2009 4:28 > > PM > > > > > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Rams! > > and LFS rant. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > So what! > > > > > > > > > > > > > > My town is that small we have the > > two > > > > > > > > > > > > > > "City Limit Signs" on one post! > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Bill > > > > > > > > > > > > > > --- On Sun, 6/28/09, Steve Szabo > > <steve@... > > > > <mailto:steve%40familyszabo.com> > > > > > <mailto:steve%40familyszabo.com> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > <mailto:steve%40familyszabo.com>> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > From: Steve Szabo > > <steve@... > > > > <mailto:steve%40familyszabo.com> > > > > > <mailto:steve%40familyszabo.com> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > <mailto:steve%40familyszabo.com>> > > > > > > > > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] > > Rams! and LFS rant. > > > > > > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > > Date: Sunday, June 28, 2009, > > 4:48 PM > > > > > > > > Bill, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Ever look at her town on > > Google Earth? She's > > > > > > lucky enough to have that > > > > > > > > one pet store there for the > > size of the > > > > > > population on that island. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > \\Steve// > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > > > > > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] > > > > > > > > On Behalf Of bill 1433 > > > > > > > > Sent: Sunday, June 28, 2009 > > 4:17 PM > > > > > > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] > > Rams! and LFS rant. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Then there only seems to be > > one real answer? > > > > > > Create high demand! > > > > > > > > How? Have some folks > > over to look at your > > > > > > beautiful tanks! > > > > > > > > Especially that 125. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I'll never forget the fist > > time I saw one. > > > > > > Even though, with the size > > > > > > > > of our current house, I could > > never have one, it > > > > > > does not stop me from > > > > > > > > dreaming about it. > > People that don't know > > > > > > much about fish or how they > > > > > > > > are cared for really enjoy > > seeing a beautiful > > > > > > tank setup and running. > > > > > > > > After that first look, stand > > by for the > > > > > > questions! Remember that fish > > > > > > > > do not need to be let out or > > walked. They > > > > > > don't need their litter > > > > > > > > boxes changed either.. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > The first question us > > usually: Can I have > > > > > > one of those in our house? > > > > > > > > This is also good if the > > people have > > > > > > children. Once there is an > > > > > > > > interest, some smart guy is > > going to figure a way > > > > > > to make a buck and > > > > > > > > capitalize on it, count on > > that! It's what > > > > > > made this country great. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Bill > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > --- On Sun, 6/28/09, Amber > > Berglund <amber@... > > > > <mailto:amber%40rose-fields.com> > > > > > <mailto:amber%40rose-fields.com> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > <mailto:amber%40rose-fields.com>> > > > > > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > From: Amber Berglund > > <amber@... > > > > <mailto:amber%40rose-fields.com> > > > > > <mailto:amber%40rose-fields.com> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > <mailto:amber%40rose-fields.com>> > > > > > > > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] > > Rams! and LFS rant. > > > > > > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > > Date: Sunday, June 28, 2009, > > 3:47 PM > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Lol, no I have a front porch > > that's not covered > > > > > > or heated, but I do > > > > > > > > have an unheated storage unit > > without power as > > > > > > well ;) I don't think > > > > > > > > any of those will help me > > out. > > > > > > > > The reason we don't have any > > competition is > > > > > > because there doesn't seem > > > > > > > > to be a high demand for pet > > stores on this > > > > > > island, they all end up out > > > > > > > > of business. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Amber > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Lenny V. aka GoldLenny > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > If Amber's Angelfish > > ever get down to > > > > > > business and > > > > > > > > quit eating their > > > > > > > > > eggs/fry, maybe she'll > > be the competition on > > > > > > that > > > > > > > > Alaskan island... at > > > > > > > > > least > > > > > > > > > for Angelfish. Do you > > have a garage with > > > > > > your condo? > > > > > > > > ;) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > > > > > > > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>> > > > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>>> > > > > > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>> > > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>>>> > > > > > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>> > > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>>> > > > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>> > > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>>>>> > > > > > > > > > (Links to any articles > > referenced in above > > > > > > reply are > > > > > > > > listed on the right > > > > > > > > > side, alphabetically > > under Labels and also > > > > > > under > > > > > > > > Archives by Year, Month) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -----Original > > Message----- > > > > > > > > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > > > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On > > > > > > > > > Behalf Of Harl Myers > > > > > > > > > Sent: Sunday, June 28, > > 2009 1:38 PM > > > > > > > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > > > Subject: Re: > > [AquaticLife] Rams! and LFS > > > > > > rant. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Well, that just sucks! > > They certainly need > > > > > > some > > > > > > > > competition... > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > On Sun, Jun 28, 2009 at > > 1:54 PM, Amber > > > > > > > Berglund<amber@... > > <mailto:amber%40rose-fields.com> > > > > <mailto:amber%40rose-fields.com> > > > > > > <mailto:amber%40rose-fields.com> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > <mailto:amber%40rose-fields.com>> > > > > > > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I tried that > > tactic, I said, "Can I > > > > > > prepay for > > > > > > > > any of them?" She said > > > > > > > > > > no, "I said I'll > > buy them without a > > > > > > guarantee > > > > > > > > then since you just got > > > > > > > > > > them" She said no, > > "I said, but I > > > > > > really want > > > > > > > > rams and I don't have > > > > > > > > > > time to go shopping > > out here during the > > > > > > week, so > > > > > > > > I'll be lucky if > > > > > > > > > > they're all still > > here by the time I > > > > > > get back out > > > > > > > > here..." She said > > > > > > > > > > Sorry... LOL > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Amber > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Harl Myers wrote: > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > >> Being a good > > customer, could you > > > > > > not just pay > > > > > > > > ahead for a pair, and > > > > > > > > > >> if they do not > > last to sale, get a > > > > > > refund. If > > > > > > > > 2 make it to sale, the > > > > > > > > > >> could be marked > > as sold. That way > > > > > > you get > > > > > > > > yours... > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > >> On Sat, Jun 27, > > 2009 at 9:20 PM, > > > > > > Amber > > > > > > > > > Berglund<amber@... > > > > <mailto:amber%40rose-fields.com> > > <mailto:amber%40rose-fields.com> > > > > > > <mailto:amber%40rose-fields.com> > > > > > > > > > > <mailto:amber%40rose-fields.com> > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > <mailto:amber%40rose-fields.com>> > > > > > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > >> > Well my > > LFS got Rams in stock > > > > > > again, > > > > > > > > they look like the same kind > > > > > > > > > >> > as last > > time, though I'm not > > > > > > sure if > > > > > > > > they're really bolivian rams > > > > > > > > > >> > or not ;) > > LOL. > > > > > > > > > >> > They > > aren't for sale yet > > > > > > though, they > > > > > > > > just got them yesterday, I > > > > > > > > > >> > was a bit > > grumpy that I have > > > > > > to find > > > > > > > > time later next week to come > > > > > > > > > >> > back and > > hope they still have > > > > > > them in > > > > > > > > stock :( Guess I will > > > > > > > > > >> > consider > > another route if that > > > > > > doesn't > > > > > > > > work out. > > > > > > > > > >> > Some days > > I hate my LFS. > > > > > > > > > >> > But I did > > buy a madagascar > > > > > > lace > > > > > > > > plant/bulb, it's already > > blooming > > > > > > > > > too. > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > >> > Amber > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ------------------------------------ > > > > > > > > > > > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING > > below it when > > > > > > replying, Thank You. > > > > > > > > ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> > > > > > > ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , > > .·´¯`·..><((((º> > > > > > > PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, > > DELETE all TEXT that is > > > > > > NOT important to the reply & if > > CHANGING the TOPIC of > > > > > > the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT > > LINE -> i.e. "new > > > > > > subject (was re: old subject)" <- > > > > > > > > <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. > > > > > > , > > .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. > > > > > > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP > > in this matter. > > > > > > > > > > > > If you do not want all of the groups > > emails, instead of > > > > > > unsubscribing, you can change your > > delivery option by > > > > > > clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the > > home page. > > > > > > > > > > > > Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:aquaticlife-digest%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > > <mailto:aquaticlife-digest%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > <mailto:aquaticlife-digest%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > to receive the digest, which includes > > up to 25 posts at a > > > > > > time in a single email > > > > > > > > > > > > Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:aquaticlife-nomail%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > > <mailto:aquaticlife-nomail%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > <mailto:aquaticlife-nomail%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > for the No E-Mail option where you will > > still be able to > > > > > > read messages on the group and post > > replies. > > > > > > > > > > > > Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:aquaticlife-normal%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > > <mailto:aquaticlife-normal%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > <mailto:aquaticlife-normal%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > to receive individual e-mails.Yahoo! > > Groups Links > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > mailto:AquaticLife-fullfeatured@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife-fullfeatured%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife-fullfeatured%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife-fullfeatured%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been > > removed] > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ------------------------------------ > > > > > > > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it > > when replying, Thank You. > > > > > > ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> > > ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> > > > > PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT > > that is NOT > > > > important to the reply & if CHANGING the > > TOPIC of the original message > > > > MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject > > (was re: old subject)" <- > > > > > > <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. > > , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. > > > > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this > > matter. > > > > > > > > If you do not want all of the groups emails, > > instead of unsubscribing, > > > > you can change your delivery option by clicking > > on "Edit My > > > > Membership" on the home page. > > > > > > > > Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:aquaticlife-digest%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > > <mailto:aquaticlife-digest%40yahoogroups.com> to > > receive the digest, > > > > which includes up to 25 posts at a time in a > > single email > > > > > > > > Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:aquaticlife-nomail%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > > <mailto:aquaticlife-nomail%40yahoogroups.com> for the > > No E-Mail option > > > > where you will still be able to read messages on > > the group and post > > > > replies. > > > > > > > > Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:aquaticlife-normal%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > > <mailto:aquaticlife-normal%40yahoogroups.com> to > > receive individual > > > > e-mails.Yahoo! 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Group: AquaticLife	Message: 41586	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 6/29/2009
Subject: Re: 55 gallon community tank and crushed coral added results

I emailed seachem to see if their products are safe for snails, if not I have 2 tanks that are not dosed with the flourish products. Amber Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > > > More than likely, that amount is OK but I would check with SeaChem or > maybe > they already have it answered on the FAQ's section for the product. > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right > side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) > > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On > Behalf Of Amber Berglund > Sent: Monday, June 29, 2009 2:04 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] 55 gallon community tank and crushed coral > added > results > > Is any amount of copper safe for snails at all? I noticed that some of the > flourish products have added copper, but it's like .0007 % or > something like > that. > > Amber > > Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > > > > > > It could keep rising so you should monitor it. If/when it starts to go > > higher than a level that you would prefer, then you would need to > > remove some of the crushed coral in your filter media bag. This is > > another reason for using a media bag. It's a lot easier to control and > > you don't have to pick up individual pieces of crushed coral out of your > substrate. > > > > You could probably start removing 10% of the crushed coral from the > > media bag each week until you see the pH start to slow down and/or > > stabilize completely. After that, as the coral in the bag slowly > > dissolves, maybe once a month, top off the bag to the level that keeps > your tank stable. > > > > With the new tank, if you mix a limited amount of crushed coral in > > with the Walstad substrate, that will not dissolve as fast or affect > > things as much and will probably last a lifetime in your substrate. > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>> > (Links to any articles referenced in > > above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels > > and also under Archives by Year, Month) > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On Behalf Of Amber Berglund > > Sent: Sunday, June 28, 2009 9:45 PM > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] 55 gallon community tank and crushed coral > > added results > > > > So will my pH only raise to a certain point or should I be watching it > > carefully? > > > > Amber > > > > Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > > > > > > > > > Yes, overnight, while the fish and ecosystem are putting out CO2, > > > the > > > CO2 level will rise and the pH will fall. Once the lights are on for > > > a while, the plants will have started utilizing the CO2, through > > > photosynthesis, and the CO2 levels will drop and the pH will rise. > > > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>> > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>>> > > (Links to any articles referenced in > > > above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under > > > Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) > > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On Behalf Of Amber Berglund > > > Sent: Sunday, June 28, 2009 5:07 PM > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] 55 gallon community tank and crushed > > > coral added results > > > > > > Oh forgot to say that the KH was 4 drops now. > > > > > > Amber > > > > > > Amber Berglund wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > The last tests were all done in the evening just before lights out. > > > > I just did a test for pH this morning after the lights had been on > > > > for a couple hours (I forgot to do it before the lights came on). > > > > The pH was > > > > 7.2 this afternoon. > > > > What will cause the pH to raise exactly, is it the CO2? > > > > > > > > Amber > > > > > > > > Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > The rise from 6.8 pH to 7.0 pH over the course of a full day is > > > > nothing to > > > > > worry about. That is the most you would ever want to change your > > > > > pH > > > > as an > > > > > immediate change but it's OK when fluctuating that much through > > > > > the > > > > course > > > > > of a day. In fact, it's not uncommon for this to happen. > > > > > > > > > > Testing the pH first thing in the morning and then right before > > > > lights out > > > > > can matter for test results, but the lighting shouldn't really > > > > affect the > > > > > GH/KH test results. > > > > > > > > > > Did you do these tests at the same time of day or similar time? > > > > > If you tested the lower number first thing in the morning, it > > > > > could have been artificially lowered due to higher levels of CO2 > > > > > in the water. If the second test for 7.0 pH was done near the > > > > > end of a day, then the CO2 > > > > levels > > > > > would be much lower as the plants would have been using it up > > all day. > > > > > > > > > > Keep monitoring the GH, KH and pH levels over the coming > > > > > days/weeks > > > > and be > > > > > prepared to remove some of the crushed coral from the filter > > > > > system if they keep climbing too much... or if the fish start > > > > > showing stress, since > > > > your > > > > > fish have been acclimated to your soft, acidic water for a while > > now. > > > > > > > > > > While the API test result instructions may have that "0 to 3 > > > > > drops equals 0 to 50ppm" type instruction, I would start going > > > > > with each drop equals > > > > > 1 dH, > > > > > which is the way that most other GH/KH test kits read. It's a > > > > > lot > > > > simpler > > > > > that way. Then to convert dH to ppm, simply multiply by 18 (or > > > > > even > > > > 20 for > > > > > simplicity... although the actual number is 1 dH = 17.9ppm). > > > > > Using the "20" > > > > > number makes things simple. 3 drops technically equals 53.7ppm > > > > (using 18 = > > > > > 54ppm, using 20 = 60ppm). Unless you are talking 10 or 20 drops, > > > > > the number difference is so small that it doesn't really matter. > > > > > Now, if API had something like that in their instructions, 1 > > > > > drop = 0-20ppm, > > > > > 2 drops = 20-40ppm, 3 drops = 40-60ppm, that would be a more > > > > > realistic conversion range. > > > > > > > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > > > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>> > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>>> > > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>> > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>>>> > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>> > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>>> > > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>> > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>>>>> > > > > > (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on > > > > > the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under > > > > > Archives by Year, > > > > Month) > > > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On Behalf Of Amber > > > > > Berglund > > > > > Sent: Saturday, June 27, 2009 11:03 PM > > > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > Subject: [AquaticLife] 55 gallon community tank and crushed > > > > > coral added results > > > > > > > > > > So after my PWC's the last couple of days and the added crushed > > > > > coral to the filter my pH now seems to have settled to 7. > > > > > Yesterday when I tested it was at 6.8. > > > > > None of the fish seem affected and all I did was add water and > > > > > crushed coral i didn't add any other chemicals besides the > > > > > flourish products. > > > > > All the fish seem very happy actually, no one is showing stress > > > > related to > > > > > pH so I guess the rise was gradual enough. > > > > > > > > > > KH now took 3 drops to change colors, which is 50ppm according > > > > > to the chart... > > > > > I will test the KH tomorrow and see if it has gone up any more. > > > > > Also > > > > these > > > > > tests were both done just before lights out, if that matters. I > > > > > can test again in the morning before the lights come on to see > > > > > what the pH > > > is. > > > > > > > > > > Amber > > > > > > ------------------------------------ > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. > ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> > PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to > the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the > SUBJECT > LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- > <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. > > If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of unsubscribing, you > can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the > home page. > > Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:aquaticlife-digest%40yahoogroups.com> to receive the digest, which > includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email > > Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:aquaticlife-nomail%40yahoogroups.com> for the No E-Mail option > where > you will still be able to read messages on the group and post replies. > > Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:aquaticlife-normal%40yahoogroups.com> to receive individual > e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 41587	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 6/30/2009
Subject: Snails and seachem flourish products

Here was my answer from seachem when I asked if their products are safe for snails. Hello Amber, Yes, when used as directed, the Flourish products are completely safe for use with snails. Seachem Support 10208 ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Seachem Laboratories, Inc. 1000 Seachem Drive, Madison, GA 30650 888-SEACHEM Fax 706-343-6070 seachem.com - jurassipet.com - watergardenoasis.com - avipet.com ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Amber

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 41588	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 6/30/2009
Subject: Re: Snails and seachem flourish products

I think I have a new addiction, this time it's snails, I'm going to end up with snails in every tank except the angelfish tank at this point ;) LOL. I'm getting some very nice magenta brigs (even Pam said they're good coloring), which orange eyes. They have little orange spots on them too (not the shell their tooth or whatever it's called that sticks out, LOL). I have managed to get my hardness and calcium levels where I want them so I should be able to keep snails successfully, I'm going to try my hand at breeding them too, since the LFS doesn't know how to keep them alive. I would give them tips but they just say, "yep" and nod, I swear it's going in one ear and out the other. Amber Amber Berglund wrote: > > > Here was my answer from seachem when I asked if their products are safe > for snails. > > Hello Amber, > Yes, when used as directed, the Flourish products are completely > safe for use with snails. > Seachem Support 10208 > ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ > Seachem Laboratories, Inc. > 1000 Seachem Drive, Madison, GA 30650 > 888-SEACHEM Fax 706-343-6070 > seachem.com - jurassipet.com - watergardenoasis.com - avipet.com > ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ > > Amber > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 41589	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 6/30/2009
Subject: Re: Snails and seachem flourish products

When you have someone like that, you must first stick a finger in their other ear, then explain it to them. This method also works with blondes. LOL ;-) Running and ducking now! Now... as to the "tooth", what is that? Do you mean the operculum... the flap that closes when they withdraw into their shell? Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Amber Berglund Sent: Tuesday, June 30, 2009 10:59 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Snails and seachem flourish products I think I have a new addiction, this time it's snails, I'm going to end up with snails in every tank except the angelfish tank at this point ;) LOL. I'm getting some very nice magenta brigs (even Pam said they're good coloring), which orange eyes. They have little orange spots on them too (not the shell their tooth or whatever it's called that sticks out, LOL). I have managed to get my hardness and calcium levels where I want them so I should be able to keep snails successfully, I'm going to try my hand at breeding them too, since the LFS doesn't know how to keep them alive. I would give them tips but they just say, "yep" and nod, I swear it's going in one ear and out the other. Amber Amber Berglund wrote: > > > Here was my answer from seachem when I asked if their products are > safe for snails. > > Hello Amber, > Yes, when used as directed, the Flourish products are completely safe > for use with snails. > Seachem Support 10208 > ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ > Seachem Laboratories, Inc. > 1000 Seachem Drive, Madison, GA 30650 > 888-SEACHEM Fax 706-343-6070 > seachem.com - jurassipet.com - watergardenoasis.com - avipet.com > ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ > > Amber

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 41590	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 6/30/2009
Subject: Re: Snails and seachem flourish products

May just have to try that method lol. I meant their foot lol. I was sleepy when I posted last night ;) Amber "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@...> wrote: >When you have someone like that, you must first stick a finger in their >other ear, then explain it to them. This method also works with blondes. >LOL ;-) > >Running and ducking now! > >Now... as to the "tooth", what is that? Do you mean the operculum... the >flap that closes when they withdraw into their shell? > >Lenny Vasbinder >Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com >(Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right >side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) > > > >-----Original Message----- >From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On >Behalf Of Amber Berglund >Sent: Tuesday, June 30, 2009 10:59 AM >To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com >Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Snails and seachem flourish products > >I think I have a new addiction, this time it's snails, I'm going to end up >with snails in every tank except the angelfish tank at this point ;) LOL. >I'm getting some very nice magenta brigs (even Pam said they're good >coloring), which orange eyes. They have little orange spots on them too (not >the shell their tooth or whatever it's called that sticks out, LOL). >I have managed to get my hardness and calcium levels where I want them so I >should be able to keep snails successfully, I'm going to try my hand at >breeding them too, since the LFS doesn't know how to keep them alive. >I would give them tips but they just say, "yep" and nod, I swear it's going >in one ear and out the other. > >Amber > >Amber Berglund wrote: >> >> >> Here was my answer from seachem when I asked if their products are >> safe for snails. >> >> Hello Amber, >> Yes, when used as directed, the Flourish products are completely safe >> for use with snails. >> Seachem Support 10208 >> ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ >> Seachem Laboratories, Inc. >> 1000 Seachem Drive, Madison, GA 30650 >> 888-SEACHEM Fax 706-343-6070 >> seachem.com - jurassipet.com - watergardenoasis.com - avipet.com >> ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ >> >> Amber > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 41591	From: pam andress	Date: 6/30/2009
Subject: Re: Snails and seachem flourish products

She is talking about the "foot". The actual color of the snail, not the shell. Pam To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com From: GoldLenny@... Date: Tue, 30 Jun 2009 12:43:21 -0500 Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Snails and seachem flourish products When you have someone like that, you must first stick a finger in their other ear, then explain it to them. This method also works with blondes. LOL ;-) Running and ducking now! Now... as to the "tooth", what is that? Do you mean the operculum... the flap that closes when they withdraw into their shell? Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Amber Berglund Sent: Tuesday, June 30, 2009 10:59 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Snails and seachem flourish products I think I have a new addiction, this time it's snails, I'm going to end up with snails in every tank except the angelfish tank at this point ;) LOL. I'm getting some very nice magenta brigs (even Pam said they're good coloring), which orange eyes. They have little orange spots on them too (not the shell their tooth or whatever it's called that sticks out, LOL). I have managed to get my hardness and calcium levels where I want them so I should be able to keep snails successfully, I'm going to try my hand at breeding them too, since the LFS doesn't know how to keep them alive. I would give them tips but they just say, "yep" and nod, I swear it's going in one ear and out the other. Amber Amber Berglund wrote: > > > Here was my answer from seachem when I asked if their products are > safe for snails. > > Hello Amber, > Yes, when used as directed, the Flourish products are completely safe > for use with snails. > Seachem Support 10208 > ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ > Seachem Laboratories, Inc. > 1000 Seachem Drive, Madison, GA 30650 > 888-SEACHEM Fax 706-343-6070 > seachem.com - jurassipet.com - watergardenoasis.com - avipet.com > ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ > > Amber [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 41592	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 6/30/2009
Subject: Re: Snails and seachem flourish products

Foot... Tooth, they're all a body part ;) LOL Amber pam andress wrote: > > > > She is talking about the "foot". The actual color of the snail, not > the shell. > > Pam > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > From: GoldLenny@... <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com> > Date: Tue, 30 Jun 2009 12:43:21 -0500 > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Snails and seachem flourish products > > When you have someone like that, you must first stick a finger in their > other ear, then explain it to them. This method also works with blondes. > LOL ;-) > > Running and ducking now! > > Now... as to the "tooth", what is that? Do you mean the operculum... the > flap that closes when they withdraw into their shell? > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right > side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On > Behalf Of Amber Berglund > Sent: Tuesday, June 30, 2009 10:59 AM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Snails and seachem flourish products > > I think I have a new addiction, this time it's snails, I'm going to end up > with snails in every tank except the angelfish tank at this point ;) LOL. > I'm getting some very nice magenta brigs (even Pam said they're good > coloring), which orange eyes. They have little orange spots on them > too (not > the shell their tooth or whatever it's called that sticks out, LOL). > I have managed to get my hardness and calcium levels where I want them > so I > should be able to keep snails successfully, I'm going to try my hand at > breeding them too, since the LFS doesn't know how to keep them alive. > I would give them tips but they just say, "yep" and nod, I swear it's > going > in one ear and out the other. > > Amber > > Amber Berglund wrote: > > > > > > Here was my answer from seachem when I asked if their products are > > safe for snails. > > > > Hello Amber, > > Yes, when used as directed, the Flourish products are completely safe > > for use with snails. > > Seachem Support 10208 > > ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ > > Seachem Laboratories, Inc. > > 1000 Seachem Drive, Madison, GA 30650 > > 888-SEACHEM Fax 706-343-6070 > > seachem.com - jurassipet.com - watergardenoasis.com - avipet.com > > ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ > > > > Amber > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 41593	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 6/30/2009
Subject: Re: Snails and seachem flourish products

And sometimes they even fit together... like when one puts their foot in their mouth. ;-) Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Amber Berglund Sent: Tuesday, June 30, 2009 4:49 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Snails and seachem flourish products Foot... Tooth, they're all a body part ;) LOL Amber pam andress wrote: > > > > She is talking about the "foot". The actual color of the snail, not > the shell. > > Pam > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > From: GoldLenny@... <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com> > Date: Tue, 30 Jun 2009 12:43:21 -0500 > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Snails and seachem flourish products > > When you have someone like that, you must first stick a finger in > their other ear, then explain it to them. This method also works with blondes. > LOL ;-) > > Running and ducking now! > > Now... as to the "tooth", what is that? Do you mean the operculum... > the flap that closes when they withdraw into their shell? > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> (Links to any articles referenced in > above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels > and also under Archives by Year, Month) > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On Behalf Of Amber Berglund > Sent: Tuesday, June 30, 2009 10:59 AM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Snails and seachem flourish products > > I think I have a new addiction, this time it's snails, I'm going to > end up with snails in every tank except the angelfish tank at this point ;) LOL. > I'm getting some very nice magenta brigs (even Pam said they're good > coloring), which orange eyes. They have little orange spots on them > too (not the shell their tooth or whatever it's called that sticks > out, LOL). > I have managed to get my hardness and calcium levels where I want them > so I should be able to keep snails successfully, I'm going to try my > hand at breeding them too, since the LFS doesn't know how to keep them > alive. > I would give them tips but they just say, "yep" and nod, I swear it's > going in one ear and out the other. > > Amber > > Amber Berglund wrote: > > > > > > Here was my answer from seachem when I asked if their products are > > safe for snails. > > > > Hello Amber, > > Yes, when used as directed, the Flourish products are completely > > safe for use with snails. > > Seachem Support 10208 > > ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ > > Seachem Laboratories, Inc. > > 1000 Seachem Drive, Madison, GA 30650 888-SEACHEM Fax 706-343-6070 > > seachem.com - jurassipet.com - watergardenoasis.com - avipet.com > > ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ > > > > Amber

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 41594	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 6/30/2009
Subject: Re: Snails and seachem flourish products

crafty one there Lenny ;) I can't see a snail putting their foot in their mouth though, doesn't look possible ;) Amber Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > > > And sometimes they even fit together... like when one puts their foot in > their mouth. ;-) > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right > side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On > Behalf Of Amber Berglund > Sent: Tuesday, June 30, 2009 4:49 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Snails and seachem flourish products > > Foot... Tooth, they're all a body part ;) LOL > > Amber > > pam andress wrote: > > > > > > > > She is talking about the "foot". The actual color of the snail, not > > the shell. > > > > Pam > > > > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > From: GoldLenny@... <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com> > <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com> > > Date: Tue, 30 Jun 2009 12:43:21 -0500 > > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Snails and seachem flourish products > > > > When you have someone like that, you must first stick a finger in > > their other ear, then explain it to them. This method also works with > blondes. > > LOL ;-) > > > > Running and ducking now! > > > > Now... as to the "tooth", what is that? Do you mean the operculum... > > the flap that closes when they withdraw into their shell? > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>> > (Links to any articles referenced in > > above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels > > and also under Archives by Year, Month) > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On Behalf Of Amber Berglund > > Sent: Tuesday, June 30, 2009 10:59 AM > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Snails and seachem flourish products > > > > I think I have a new addiction, this time it's snails, I'm going to > > end up with snails in every tank except the angelfish tank at this point > ;) LOL. > > I'm getting some very nice magenta brigs (even Pam said they're good > > coloring), which orange eyes. They have little orange spots on them > > too (not the shell their tooth or whatever it's called that sticks > > out, LOL). > > I have managed to get my hardness and calcium levels where I want them > > so I should be able to keep snails successfully, I'm going to try my > > hand at breeding them too, since the LFS doesn't know how to keep them > > alive. > > I would give them tips but they just say, "yep" and nod, I swear it's > > going in one ear and out the other. > > > > Amber > > > > Amber Berglund wrote: > > > > > > > > > Here was my answer from seachem when I asked if their products are > > > safe for snails. > > > > > > Hello Amber, > > > Yes, when used as directed, the Flourish products are completely > > > safe for use with snails. > > > Seachem Support 10208 > > > ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ > > > Seachem Laboratories, Inc. > > > 1000 Seachem Drive, Madison, GA 30650 888-SEACHEM Fax 706-343-6070 > > > seachem.com - jurassipet.com - watergardenoasis.com - avipet.com > > > ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ > > > > > > Amber > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 41595	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 7/1/2009
Subject: Rams and incoming fish

I have too many fish to put into a 10 gallon for quarantine as I made a large fish order should I go ahead and use the 55 gallon that I set up this weekend as a walstad tank? The cycled media is still in another filter and the tank is only lightly planted until my plant order arrives this week. I could go see what the lfs has left in stock but it was pretty bare for plants last weekend because they didn't put in a plant order. I think I'm going to stick to aquabid for my fish and plants from now on. For the first time I will know what I am planting in the tank lol. Can't wait for my 3 pairs of german blue rams. Oh and bill the blue ones with pink belly's are the females. Amber [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 41596	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 7/1/2009
Subject: Re: Rams and incoming fish

How many fish did you get in and how big? The problem with using the 55G newly set up Walstad tank as a Q-tank is that if something should go wrong and you have to treat the fish, you may end up having to break down that tank afterwards. A Q-tank is best kept very simple so that it can be sterilized afterwards. Run to Wal-Mart and buy one or more new 10G tanks or use the Sterilite clear plastic tubs, possibly only one that is large enough for all the fish, but I wouldn't use the 55G newly setup Walstad substrate tank. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Amber Berglund Sent: Wednesday, July 01, 2009 1:23 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Rams and incoming fish I have too many fish to put into a 10 gallon for quarantine as I made a large fish order should I go ahead and use the 55 gallon that I set up this weekend as a walstad tank? The cycled media is still in another filter and the tank is only lightly planted until my plant order arrives this week. I could go see what the lfs has left in stock but it was pretty bare for plants last weekend because they didn't put in a plant order. I think I'm going to stick to aquabid for my fish and plants from now on. For the first time I will know what I am planting in the tank lol. Can't wait for my 3 pairs of german blue rams. Oh and bill the blue ones with pink belly's are the females. Amber

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 41597	From: Donna Ransome	Date: 7/1/2009
Subject: Re: Snails and seachem flourish products

I’m glad you’re not a surgeon. _____ From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Amber Berglund Sent: Tuesday, June 30, 2009 5:49 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Snails and seachem flourish products Foot... Tooth, they're all a body part ;) LOL Amber pam andress wrote: > > > > She is talking about the "foot". The actual color of the snail, not > the shell. > > Pam > > > To: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > From: GoldLenny@gmail. <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com> com <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com> > Date: Tue, 30 Jun 2009 12:43:21 -0500 > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Snails and seachem flourish products > > When you have someone like that, you must first stick a finger in their > other ear, then explain it to them. This method also works with blondes. > LOL ;-) > > Running and ducking now! > > Now... as to the "tooth", what is that? Do you mean the operculum... the > flap that closes when they withdraw into their shell? > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> blogspot.com> > (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right > side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > [mailto:AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On > Behalf Of Amber Berglund > Sent: Tuesday, June 30, 2009 10:59 AM > To: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Snails and seachem flourish products > > I think I have a new addiction, this time it's snails, I'm going to end up > with snails in every tank except the angelfish tank at this point ;) LOL. > I'm getting some very nice magenta brigs (even Pam said they're good > coloring), which orange eyes. They have little orange spots on them > too (not > the shell their tooth or whatever it's called that sticks out, LOL). > I have managed to get my hardness and calcium levels where I want them > so I > should be able to keep snails successfully, I'm going to try my hand at > breeding them too, since the LFS doesn't know how to keep them alive. > I would give them tips but they just say, "yep" and nod, I swear it's > going > in one ear and out the other. > > Amber > > Amber Berglund wrote: > > > > > > Here was my answer from seachem when I asked if their products are > > safe for snails. > > > > Hello Amber, > > Yes, when used as directed, the Flourish products are completely safe > > for use with snails. > > Seachem Support 10208 > > ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ > > Seachem Laboratories, Inc. > > 1000 Seachem Drive, Madison, GA 30650 > > 888-SEACHEM Fax 706-343-6070 > > seachem.com - jurassipet.com - watergardenoasis.com - avipet.com > > ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ > > > > Amber > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 41598	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 7/1/2009
Subject: Re: Rams and incoming fish

I got 16 fish, they should all be small, lemme open the box and look to see how many made it ;) LOL Amber Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > > > How many fish did you get in and how big? The problem with using the 55G > newly set up Walstad tank as a Q-tank is that if something should go wrong > and you have to treat the fish, you may end up having to break down that > tank afterwards. A Q-tank is best kept very simple so that it can be > sterilized afterwards. Run to Wal-Mart and buy one or more new 10G > tanks or > use the Sterilite clear plastic tubs, possibly only one that is large > enough > for all the fish, but I wouldn't use the 55G newly setup Walstad substrate > tank. > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right > side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On > Behalf Of Amber Berglund > Sent: Wednesday, July 01, 2009 1:23 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Subject: [AquaticLife] Rams and incoming fish > > I have too many fish to put into a 10 gallon for quarantine as I made a > large fish order should I go ahead and use the 55 gallon that I set up > this > weekend as a walstad tank? The cycled media is still in another filter and > the tank is only lightly planted until my plant order arrives this week. I > could go see what the lfs has left in stock but it was pretty bare for > plants last weekend because they didn't put in a plant order. > > I think I'm going to stick to aquabid for my fish and plants from now on. > For the first time I will know what I am planting in the tank lol. Can't > wait for my 3 pairs of german blue rams. > > Oh and bill the blue ones with pink belly's are the females. > > Amber > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 41599	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 7/1/2009
Subject: Re: Rams and incoming fish

Aww, the bleeding hearts are tiny! LOL, my males are going to be in heaven with their 6 little females ;) LOL They all look small, less than an inch in size. Amber Amber Berglund wrote: > > > I got 16 fish, they should all be small, lemme open the box and look to > see how many made it ;) LOL > > Amber > > Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > > > > > > How many fish did you get in and how big? The problem with using the 55G > > newly set up Walstad tank as a Q-tank is that if something should go > wrong > > and you have to treat the fish, you may end up having to break down that > > tank afterwards. A Q-tank is best kept very simple so that it can be > > sterilized afterwards. Run to Wal-Mart and buy one or more new 10G > > tanks or > > use the Sterilite clear plastic tubs, possibly only one that is large > > enough > > for all the fish, but I wouldn't use the 55G newly setup Walstad > substrate > > tank. > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>> > > (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right > > side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, > Month) > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On > > Behalf Of Amber Berglund > > Sent: Wednesday, July 01, 2009 1:23 PM > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > Subject: [AquaticLife] Rams and incoming fish > > > > I have too many fish to put into a 10 gallon for quarantine as I made a > > large fish order should I go ahead and use the 55 gallon that I set up > > this > > weekend as a walstad tank? The cycled media is still in another > filter and > > the tank is only lightly planted until my plant order arrives this > week. I > > could go see what the lfs has left in stock but it was pretty bare for > > plants last weekend because they didn't put in a plant order. > > > > I think I'm going to stick to aquabid for my fish and plants from > now on. > > For the first time I will know what I am planting in the tank lol. Can't > > wait for my 3 pairs of german blue rams. > > > > Oh and bill the blue ones with pink belly's are the females. > > > > Amber > > > > > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 41600	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 7/1/2009
Subject: Re: Snails and seachem flourish products

Yeah me too, might cut off someone's foot instead of their hand or something ;) Amber Donna Ransome wrote: > > > I’m glad you’re not a surgeon. > > _____ > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On > Behalf Of Amber Berglund > Sent: Tuesday, June 30, 2009 5:49 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Snails and seachem flourish products > > Foot... Tooth, they're all a body part ;) LOL > > Amber > > pam andress wrote: > > > > > > > > She is talking about the "foot". The actual color of the snail, not > > the shell. > > > > Pam > > > > > > To: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > From: GoldLenny@gmail. <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com> com > <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com> > > Date: Tue, 30 Jun 2009 12:43:21 -0500 > > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Snails and seachem flourish products > > > > When you have someone like that, you must first stick a finger in their > > other ear, then explain it to them. This method also works with blondes. > > LOL ;-) > > > > Running and ducking now! > > > > Now... as to the "tooth", what is that? Do you mean the operculum... the > > flap that closes when they withdraw into their shell? > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>> blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>> blogspot.com> > > (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right > > side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, > Month) > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > yahoogroups.com > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > [mailto:AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > yahoogroups.com > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On > > Behalf Of Amber Berglund > > Sent: Tuesday, June 30, 2009 10:59 AM > > To: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Snails and seachem flourish products > > > > I think I have a new addiction, this time it's snails, I'm going to > end up > > with snails in every tank except the angelfish tank at this point ;) > LOL. > > I'm getting some very nice magenta brigs (even Pam said they're good > > coloring), which orange eyes. They have little orange spots on them > > too (not > > the shell their tooth or whatever it's called that sticks out, LOL). > > I have managed to get my hardness and calcium levels where I want them > > so I > > should be able to keep snails successfully, I'm going to try my hand at > > breeding them too, since the LFS doesn't know how to keep them alive. > > I would give them tips but they just say, "yep" and nod, I swear it's > > going > > in one ear and out the other. > > > > Amber > > > > Amber Berglund wrote: > > > > > > > > > Here was my answer from seachem when I asked if their products are > > > safe for snails. > > > > > > Hello Amber, > > > Yes, when used as directed, the Flourish products are completely safe > > > for use with snails. > > > Seachem Support 10208 > > > ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ > > > Seachem Laboratories, Inc. > > > 1000 Seachem Drive, Madison, GA 30650 > > > 888-SEACHEM Fax 706-343-6070 > > > seachem.com - jurassipet.com - watergardenoasis.com - avipet.com > > > ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ > > > > > > Amber > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 41601	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 7/1/2009
Subject: Re: Snails and seachem flourish products

Didn't you mean Sturgeon? Keeping it on fish. LOL Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Donna Ransome Sent: Wednesday, July 01, 2009 3:19 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Snails and seachem flourish products I'm glad you're not a surgeon. _____ From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Amber Berglund Sent: Tuesday, June 30, 2009 5:49 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Snails and seachem flourish products Foot... Tooth, they're all a body part ;) LOL Amber pam andress wrote: > > > > She is talking about the "foot". The actual color of the snail, not > the shell. > > Pam > > > To: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > From: GoldLenny@gmail. <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com> com <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com> > Date: Tue, 30 Jun 2009 12:43:21 -0500 > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Snails and seachem flourish products > > When you have someone like that, you must first stick a finger in > their other ear, then explain it to them. This method also works with blondes. > LOL ;-) > > Running and ducking now! > > Now... as to the "tooth", what is that? Do you mean the operculum... > the flap that closes when they withdraw into their shell? > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> blogspot.com> > (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the > right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by > Year, Month) > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > [mailto:AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On Behalf Of Amber Berglund > Sent: Tuesday, June 30, 2009 10:59 AM > To: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Snails and seachem flourish products > > I think I have a new addiction, this time it's snails, I'm going to > end up with snails in every tank except the angelfish tank at this point ;) LOL. > I'm getting some very nice magenta brigs (even Pam said they're good > coloring), which orange eyes. They have little orange spots on them > too (not the shell their tooth or whatever it's called that sticks > out, LOL). > I have managed to get my hardness and calcium levels where I want them > so I should be able to keep snails successfully, I'm going to try my > hand at breeding them too, since the LFS doesn't know how to keep them > alive. > I would give them tips but they just say, "yep" and nod, I swear it's > going in one ear and out the other. > > Amber > > Amber Berglund wrote: > > > > > > Here was my answer from seachem when I asked if their products are > > safe for snails. > > > > Hello Amber, > > Yes, when used as directed, the Flourish products are completely > > safe for use with snails. > > Seachem Support 10208 > > ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ > > Seachem Laboratories, Inc. > > 1000 Seachem Drive, Madison, GA 30650 888-SEACHEM Fax 706-343-6070 > > seachem.com - jurassipet.com - watergardenoasis.com - avipet.com > > ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ > > > > Amber

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 41602	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 7/1/2009
Subject: Re: Rams and incoming fish

I'd put them in the 10G and just do 2X or 3X/week PWC's... or more often if you can find the time. Normally, one shouldn't keep more than ten 1" fish (or five 2" fish or three 3" fish) in a 10G tank but that is for long term purposes. For the purposes of Q-tanks and H-tanks, these stocking guidelines can be relaxed as long as the fish keeper does proper maintenance on the tank during their stay. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Amber Berglund Sent: Wednesday, July 01, 2009 4:12 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Rams and incoming fish Aww, the bleeding hearts are tiny! LOL, my males are going to be in heaven with their 6 little females ;) LOL They all look small, less than an inch in size. Amber Amber Berglund wrote: > > > I got 16 fish, they should all be small, lemme open the box and look > to see how many made it ;) LOL > > Amber > > Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > > > > > > How many fish did you get in and how big? The problem with using the > > 55G newly set up Walstad tank as a Q-tank is that if something > > should go > wrong > > and you have to treat the fish, you may end up having to break down > > that tank afterwards. A Q-tank is best kept very simple so that it > > can be sterilized afterwards. Run to Wal-Mart and buy one or more > > new 10G tanks or use the Sterilite clear plastic tubs, possibly only > > one that is large enough for all the fish, but I wouldn't use the > > 55G newly setup Walstad > substrate > > tank. > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>> > > (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the > > right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by > > Year, > Month) > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On Behalf Of Amber Berglund > > Sent: Wednesday, July 01, 2009 1:23 PM > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > Subject: [AquaticLife] Rams and incoming fish > > > > I have too many fish to put into a 10 gallon for quarantine as I > > made a large fish order should I go ahead and use the 55 gallon that > > I set up this weekend as a walstad tank? The cycled media is still > > in another > filter and > > the tank is only lightly planted until my plant order arrives this > week. I > > could go see what the lfs has left in stock but it was pretty bare > > for plants last weekend because they didn't put in a plant order. > > > > I think I'm going to stick to aquabid for my fish and plants from > now on. > > For the first time I will know what I am planting in the tank lol. > > Can't wait for my 3 pairs of german blue rams. > > > > Oh and bill the blue ones with pink belly's are the females. > > > > Amber

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 41603	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 7/1/2009
Subject: Re: Rams and incoming fish

The Rams seemed to be the healthiest of all the fish, they are active and already searching for food. The bleeding hearts seemed a bit shaken up, but they're eating now too. The cory's are hiding, I think they didn't like their trip ;) I love the rams, tiny little guys must be just barely sexually mature, it's cute to watch them doing their pairing up dances. Amber Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > > > I'd put them in the 10G and just do 2X or 3X/week PWC's... or more > often if > you can find the time. > > Normally, one shouldn't keep more than ten 1" fish (or five 2" fish or > three > 3" fish) in a 10G tank but that is for long term purposes. For the > purposes > of Q-tanks and H-tanks, these stocking guidelines can be relaxed as > long as > the fish keeper does proper maintenance on the tank during their stay. > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right > side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On > Behalf Of Amber Berglund > Sent: Wednesday, July 01, 2009 4:12 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Rams and incoming fish > > Aww, the bleeding hearts are tiny! LOL, my males are going to be in heaven > with their 6 little females ;) LOL They all look small, less than an > inch in > size. > > Amber > > Amber Berglund wrote: > > > > > > I got 16 fish, they should all be small, lemme open the box and look > > to see how many made it ;) LOL > > > > Amber > > > > Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > > > > > > > > > How many fish did you get in and how big? The problem with using the > > > 55G newly set up Walstad tank as a Q-tank is that if something > > > should go > > wrong > > > and you have to treat the fish, you may end up having to break down > > > that tank afterwards. A Q-tank is best kept very simple so that it > > > can be sterilized afterwards. Run to Wal-Mart and buy one or more > > > new 10G tanks or use the Sterilite clear plastic tubs, possibly only > > > one that is large enough for all the fish, but I wouldn't use the > > > 55G newly setup Walstad > > substrate > > > tank. > > > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>>> > > > (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the > > > right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by > > > Year, > > Month) > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On Behalf Of Amber Berglund > > > Sent: Wednesday, July 01, 2009 1:23 PM > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > Subject: [AquaticLife] Rams and incoming fish > > > > > > I have too many fish to put into a 10 gallon for quarantine as I > > > made a large fish order should I go ahead and use the 55 gallon that > > > I set up this weekend as a walstad tank? The cycled media is still > > > in another > > filter and > > > the tank is only lightly planted until my plant order arrives this > > week. I > > > could go see what the lfs has left in stock but it was pretty bare > > > for plants last weekend because they didn't put in a plant order. > > > > > > I think I'm going to stick to aquabid for my fish and plants from > > now on. > > > For the first time I will know what I am planting in the tank lol. > > > Can't wait for my 3 pairs of german blue rams. > > > > > > Oh and bill the blue ones with pink belly's are the females. > > > > > > Amber > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 41604	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 7/1/2009
Subject: Re: Rams and incoming fish

Oh, and just so I can make everyone jealous, it cost me $19 dollars for overnight shipping here to Alaska for my 6 lbs of fish ;) *runs and hides now* I bet if I do the math it'll be cheaper than it would have been if I shopped from my LFS, how sad is that? 78+19=$97 for the fish 5 peppered cory's, sell for about 6-7 at my LFS 6 bleeding heart tetras, sell for about 7 at my LFS 6 german blue ram's, sell for over 10 at my LFS I think I'm going to boycot the LFS ;) Amber Amber Berglund wrote: > > > The Rams seemed to be the healthiest of all the fish, they are active > and already searching for food. The bleeding hearts seemed a bit shaken > up, but they're eating now too. The cory's are hiding, I think they > didn't like their trip ;) > I love the rams, tiny little guys must be just barely sexually mature, > it's cute to watch them doing their pairing up dances. > > Amber > > Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > > > > > > I'd put them in the 10G and just do 2X or 3X/week PWC's... or more > > often if > > you can find the time. > > > > Normally, one shouldn't keep more than ten 1" fish (or five 2" fish or > > three > > 3" fish) in a 10G tank but that is for long term purposes. For the > > purposes > > of Q-tanks and H-tanks, these stocking guidelines can be relaxed as > > long as > > the fish keeper does proper maintenance on the tank during their stay. > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>> > > (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right > > side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, > Month) > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On > > Behalf Of Amber Berglund > > Sent: Wednesday, July 01, 2009 4:12 PM > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Rams and incoming fish > > > > Aww, the bleeding hearts are tiny! LOL, my males are going to be in > heaven > > with their 6 little females ;) LOL They all look small, less than an > > inch in > > size. > > > > Amber > > > > Amber Berglund wrote: > > > > > > > > > I got 16 fish, they should all be small, lemme open the box and look > > > to see how many made it ;) LOL > > > > > > Amber > > > > > > Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > How many fish did you get in and how big? The problem with using the > > > > 55G newly set up Walstad tank as a Q-tank is that if something > > > > should go > > > wrong > > > > and you have to treat the fish, you may end up having to break down > > > > that tank afterwards. A Q-tank is best kept very simple so that it > > > > can be sterilized afterwards. Run to Wal-Mart and buy one or more > > > > new 10G tanks or use the Sterilite clear plastic tubs, possibly only > > > > one that is large enough for all the fish, but I wouldn't use the > > > > 55G newly setup Walstad > > > substrate > > > > tank. > > > > > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>> > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>>> > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>> > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>>>> > > > > (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the > > > > right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by > > > > Year, > > > Month) > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On Behalf Of Amber Berglund > > > > Sent: Wednesday, July 01, 2009 1:23 PM > > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > Subject: [AquaticLife] Rams and incoming fish > > > > > > > > I have too many fish to put into a 10 gallon for quarantine as I > > > > made a large fish order should I go ahead and use the 55 gallon that > > > > I set up this weekend as a walstad tank? The cycled media is still > > > > in another > > > filter and > > > > the tank is only lightly planted until my plant order arrives this > > > week. I > > > > could go see what the lfs has left in stock but it was pretty bare > > > > for plants last weekend because they didn't put in a plant order. > > > > > > > > I think I'm going to stick to aquabid for my fish and plants from > > > now on. > > > > For the first time I will know what I am planting in the tank lol. > > > > Can't wait for my 3 pairs of german blue rams. > > > > > > > > Oh and bill the blue ones with pink belly's are the females. > > > > > > > > Amber > > > > > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 41605	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 7/1/2009
Subject: Re: Rams and incoming fish

Yep. While most fish keepers should try to support their LFS, over the Big Box Chain Pet Stores, some times, if the LFS isn't meeting their customer's needs or they are charging outrageous prices, then they have to face the reality that they will lose customers. Fortunately, with the internet, there are many other options for folks so retailers (LFS and Big Box) both need to go above and beyond the call of duty in taking care of their customers... it's too easy for a customer to go elsewhere nowadays... and that means any where around the world that they choose to shop. I mix up my purchases between my LFS, Big Box (although the PetsMart isn't getting as much since they went up on their prices so much) and online eTailers. I make my list, stop by the LFS first to see if they are close in pricing... usually they aren't very competitive on off-the-shelf items but they are competitive on fish prices. Then I check the shelf prices at the PetsMart, compared to their online prices and then I decide whether to just go with an online order. Is $19.00 a super special price? How much would it have cost for us non-FEDEX folks? Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Amber Berglund Sent: Wednesday, July 01, 2009 9:05 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Rams and incoming fish Oh, and just so I can make everyone jealous, it cost me $19 dollars for overnight shipping here to Alaska for my 6 lbs of fish ;) *runs and hides now* I bet if I do the math it'll be cheaper than it would have been if I shopped from my LFS, how sad is that? 78+19=$97 for the fish 5 peppered cory's, sell for about 6-7 at my LFS 6 bleeding heart tetras, sell for about 7 at my LFS 6 german blue ram's, sell for over 10 at my LFS I think I'm going to boycot the LFS ;) Amber Amber Berglund wrote: > > > The Rams seemed to be the healthiest of all the fish, they are active > and already searching for food. The bleeding hearts seemed a bit > shaken up, but they're eating now too. The cory's are hiding, I think > they didn't like their trip ;) I love the rams, tiny little guys must > be just barely sexually mature, it's cute to watch them doing their > pairing up dances. > > Amber > > Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > > > > > > I'd put them in the 10G and just do 2X or 3X/week PWC's... or more > > often if you can find the time. > > > > Normally, one shouldn't keep more than ten 1" fish (or five 2" fish > > or three 3" fish) in a 10G tank but that is for long term purposes. > > For the purposes of Q-tanks and H-tanks, these stocking guidelines > > can be relaxed as long as the fish keeper does proper maintenance on > > the tank during their stay. > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>> > > (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the > > right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by > > Year, > Month) > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On Behalf Of Amber Berglund > > Sent: Wednesday, July 01, 2009 4:12 PM > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Rams and incoming fish > > > > Aww, the bleeding hearts are tiny! LOL, my males are going to be in > heaven > > with their 6 little females ;) LOL They all look small, less than an > > inch in size. > > > > Amber > > > > Amber Berglund wrote: > > > > > > > > > I got 16 fish, they should all be small, lemme open the box and > > > look to see how many made it ;) LOL > > > > > > Amber > > > > > > Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > How many fish did you get in and how big? The problem with using > > > > the 55G newly set up Walstad tank as a Q-tank is that if > > > > something should go > > > wrong > > > > and you have to treat the fish, you may end up having to break > > > > down that tank afterwards. A Q-tank is best kept very simple so > > > > that it can be sterilized afterwards. Run to Wal-Mart and buy > > > > one or more new 10G tanks or use the Sterilite clear plastic > > > > tubs, possibly only one that is large enough for all the fish, > > > > but I wouldn't use the 55G newly setup Walstad > > > substrate > > > > tank. > > > > > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>> > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>>> > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>> > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>>>> > > > > (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on > > > > the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under > > > > Archives by Year, > > > Month) > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On Behalf Of Amber > > > > Berglund > > > > Sent: Wednesday, July 01, 2009 1:23 PM > > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > Subject: [AquaticLife] Rams and incoming fish > > > > > > > > I have too many fish to put into a 10 gallon for quarantine as I > > > > made a large fish order should I go ahead and use the 55 gallon > > > > that I set up this weekend as a walstad tank? The cycled media > > > > is still in another > > > filter and > > > > the tank is only lightly planted until my plant order arrives > > > > this > > > week. I > > > > could go see what the lfs has left in stock but it was pretty > > > > bare for plants last weekend because they didn't put in a plant order. > > > > > > > > I think I'm going to stick to aquabid for my fish and plants > > > > from > > > now on. > > > > For the first time I will know what I am planting in the tank lol. > > > > Can't wait for my 3 pairs of german blue rams. > > > > > > > > Oh and bill the blue ones with pink belly's are the females. > > > > > > > > Amber

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 41606	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 7/1/2009
Subject: Re: Rams and incoming fish

I get 75% off, so you can do the math, I suck at math ;) LOL (hubby is now doing the math, LOL) It's a nice perk for working for fedex, it's funny when I can get a better price than I could shipping it any other way, including fed ex ground (which I still get a discount but not as much). Amber Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > > > Yep. While most fish keepers should try to support their LFS, over the Big > Box Chain Pet Stores, some times, if the LFS isn't meeting their > customer's > needs or they are charging outrageous prices, then they have to face the > reality that they will lose customers. Fortunately, with the internet, > there are many other options for folks so retailers (LFS and Big Box) both > need to go above and beyond the call of duty in taking care of their > customers... it's too easy for a customer to go elsewhere nowadays... and > that means any where around the world that they choose to shop. > > I mix up my purchases between my LFS, Big Box (although the PetsMart isn't > getting as much since they went up on their prices so much) and online > eTailers. I make my list, stop by the LFS first to see if they are > close in > pricing... usually they aren't very competitive on off-the-shelf items but > they are competitive on fish prices. Then I check the shelf prices at the > PetsMart, compared to their online prices and then I decide whether to > just > go with an online order. > > Is $19.00 a super special price? How much would it have cost for us > non-FEDEX folks? > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right > side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) > > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On > Behalf Of Amber Berglund > Sent: Wednesday, July 01, 2009 9:05 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Rams and incoming fish > > Oh, and just so I can make everyone jealous, it cost me $19 dollars for > overnight shipping here to Alaska for my 6 lbs of fish ;) *runs and hides > now* I bet if I do the math it'll be cheaper than it would have been if I > shopped from my LFS, how sad is that? > 78+19=$97 for the fish > 5 peppered cory's, sell for about 6-7 at my LFS > 6 bleeding heart tetras, sell for about 7 at my LFS > 6 german blue ram's, sell for over 10 at my LFS I think I'm going to > boycot > the LFS ;) > > Amber > > Amber Berglund wrote: > > > > > > The Rams seemed to be the healthiest of all the fish, they are active > > and already searching for food. The bleeding hearts seemed a bit > > shaken up, but they're eating now too. The cory's are hiding, I think > > they didn't like their trip ;) I love the rams, tiny little guys must > > be just barely sexually mature, it's cute to watch them doing their > > pairing up dances. > > > > Amber > > > > Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > > > > > > > > > I'd put them in the 10G and just do 2X or 3X/week PWC's... or more > > > often if you can find the time. > > > > > > Normally, one shouldn't keep more than ten 1" fish (or five 2" fish > > > or three 3" fish) in a 10G tank but that is for long term purposes. > > > For the purposes of Q-tanks and H-tanks, these stocking guidelines > > > can be relaxed as long as the fish keeper does proper maintenance on > > > the tank during their stay. > > > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>>> > > > (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the > > > right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by > > > Year, > > Month) > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On Behalf Of Amber Berglund > > > Sent: Wednesday, July 01, 2009 4:12 PM > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Rams and incoming fish > > > > > > Aww, the bleeding hearts are tiny! LOL, my males are going to be in > > heaven > > > with their 6 little females ;) LOL They all look small, less than an > > > inch in size. > > > > > > Amber > > > > > > Amber Berglund wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > I got 16 fish, they should all be small, lemme open the box and > > > > look to see how many made it ;) LOL > > > > > > > > Amber > > > > > > > > Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > How many fish did you get in and how big? The problem with using > > > > > the 55G newly set up Walstad tank as a Q-tank is that if > > > > > something should go > > > > wrong > > > > > and you have to treat the fish, you may end up having to break > > > > > down that tank afterwards. A Q-tank is best kept very simple so > > > > > that it can be sterilized afterwards. Run to Wal-Mart and buy > > > > > one or more new 10G tanks or use the Sterilite clear plastic > > > > > tubs, possibly only one that is large enough for all the fish, > > > > > but I wouldn't use the 55G newly setup Walstad > > > > substrate > > > > > tank. > > > > > > > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > > > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>> > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>>> > > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>> > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>>>> > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>> > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>>> > > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>> > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>>>>> > > > > > (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on > > > > > the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under > > > > > Archives by Year, > > > > Month) > > > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On Behalf Of Amber > > > > > Berglund > > > > > Sent: Wednesday, July 01, 2009 1:23 PM > > > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > Subject: [AquaticLife] Rams and incoming fish > > > > > > > > > > I have too many fish to put into a 10 gallon for quarantine as I > > > > > made a large fish order should I go ahead and use the 55 gallon > > > > > that I set up this weekend as a walstad tank? The cycled media > > > > > is still in another > > > > filter and > > > > > the tank is only lightly planted until my plant order arrives > > > > > this > > > > week. I > > > > > could go see what the lfs has left in stock but it was pretty > > > > > bare for plants last weekend because they didn't put in a plant > order. > > > > > > > > > > I think I'm going to stick to aquabid for my fish and plants > > > > > from > > > > now on. > > > > > For the first time I will know what I am planting in the tank lol. > > > > > Can't wait for my 3 pairs of german blue rams. > > > > > > > > > > Oh and bill the blue ones with pink belly's are the females. > > > > > > > > > > Amber > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 41607	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 7/1/2009
Subject: Re: Rams and incoming fish

Hubby says it should have been $76.00 without the discount... So yes, it's worth it for me to save up for my fish orders rather than shop at my LFS. Amber Amber Berglund wrote: > > > I get 75% off, so you can do the math, I suck at math ;) LOL (hubby is > now doing the math, LOL) > It's a nice perk for working for fedex, it's funny when I can get a > better price than I could shipping it any other way, including fed ex > ground (which I still get a discount but not as much). > > Amber > > Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > > > > > > Yep. While most fish keepers should try to support their LFS, over > the Big > > Box Chain Pet Stores, some times, if the LFS isn't meeting their > > customer's > > needs or they are charging outrageous prices, then they have to face the > > reality that they will lose customers. Fortunately, with the internet, > > there are many other options for folks so retailers (LFS and Big > Box) both > > need to go above and beyond the call of duty in taking care of their > > customers... it's too easy for a customer to go elsewhere > nowadays... and > > that means any where around the world that they choose to shop. > > > > I mix up my purchases between my LFS, Big Box (although the PetsMart > isn't > > getting as much since they went up on their prices so much) and online > > eTailers. I make my list, stop by the LFS first to see if they are > > close in > > pricing... usually they aren't very competitive on off-the-shelf > items but > > they are competitive on fish prices. Then I check the shelf prices > at the > > PetsMart, compared to their online prices and then I decide whether to > > just > > go with an online order. > > > > Is $19.00 a super special price? How much would it have cost for us > > non-FEDEX folks? > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>> > > (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right > > side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, > Month) > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On > > Behalf Of Amber Berglund > > Sent: Wednesday, July 01, 2009 9:05 PM > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Rams and incoming fish > > > > Oh, and just so I can make everyone jealous, it cost me $19 dollars for > > overnight shipping here to Alaska for my 6 lbs of fish ;) *runs and > hides > > now* I bet if I do the math it'll be cheaper than it would have been > if I > > shopped from my LFS, how sad is that? > > 78+19=$97 for the fish > > 5 peppered cory's, sell for about 6-7 at my LFS > > 6 bleeding heart tetras, sell for about 7 at my LFS > > 6 german blue ram's, sell for over 10 at my LFS I think I'm going to > > boycot > > the LFS ;) > > > > Amber > > > > Amber Berglund wrote: > > > > > > > > > The Rams seemed to be the healthiest of all the fish, they are active > > > and already searching for food. The bleeding hearts seemed a bit > > > shaken up, but they're eating now too. The cory's are hiding, I think > > > they didn't like their trip ;) I love the rams, tiny little guys must > > > be just barely sexually mature, it's cute to watch them doing their > > > pairing up dances. > > > > > > Amber > > > > > > Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > I'd put them in the 10G and just do 2X or 3X/week PWC's... or more > > > > often if you can find the time. > > > > > > > > Normally, one shouldn't keep more than ten 1" fish (or five 2" fish > > > > or three 3" fish) in a 10G tank but that is for long term purposes. > > > > For the purposes of Q-tanks and H-tanks, these stocking guidelines > > > > can be relaxed as long as the fish keeper does proper maintenance on > > > > the tank during their stay. > > > > > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>> > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>>> > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>> > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>>>> > > > > (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the > > > > right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by > > > > Year, > > > Month) > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On Behalf Of Amber Berglund > > > > Sent: Wednesday, July 01, 2009 4:12 PM > > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Rams and incoming fish > > > > > > > > Aww, the bleeding hearts are tiny! LOL, my males are going to be in > > > heaven > > > > with their 6 little females ;) LOL They all look small, less than an > > > > inch in size. > > > > > > > > Amber > > > > > > > > Amber Berglund wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I got 16 fish, they should all be small, lemme open the box and > > > > > look to see how many made it ;) LOL > > > > > > > > > > Amber > > > > > > > > > > Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > How many fish did you get in and how big? The problem with using > > > > > > the 55G newly set up Walstad tank as a Q-tank is that if > > > > > > something should go > > > > > wrong > > > > > > and you have to treat the fish, you may end up having to break > > > > > > down that tank afterwards. A Q-tank is best kept very simple so > > > > > > that it can be sterilized afterwards. Run to Wal-Mart and buy > > > > > > one or more new 10G tanks or use the Sterilite clear plastic > > > > > > tubs, possibly only one that is large enough for all the fish, > > > > > > but I wouldn't use the 55G newly setup Walstad > > > > > substrate > > > > > > tank. > > > > > > > > > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > > > > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>> > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>>> > > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>> > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>>>> > > > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>> > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>>> > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>> > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>>>>> > > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>> > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>>> > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>> > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>>>> > > > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>> > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>>> > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>> > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>>>>>> > > > > > > (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on > > > > > > the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under > > > > > > Archives by Year, > > > > > Month) > > > > > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > > > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On Behalf Of Amber > > > > > > Berglund > > > > > > Sent: Wednesday, July 01, 2009 1:23 PM > > > > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > Subject: [AquaticLife] Rams and incoming fish > > > > > > > > > > > > I have too many fish to put into a 10 gallon for quarantine as I > > > > > > made a large fish order should I go ahead and use the 55 gallon > > > > > > that I set up this weekend as a walstad tank? The cycled media > > > > > > is still in another > > > > > filter and > > > > > > the tank is only lightly planted until my plant order arrives > > > > > > this > > > > > week. I > > > > > > could go see what the lfs has left in stock but it was pretty > > > > > > bare for plants last weekend because they didn't put in a plant > > order. > > > > > > > > > > > > I think I'm going to stick to aquabid for my fish and plants > > > > > > from > > > > > now on. > > > > > > For the first time I will know what I am planting in the > tank lol. > > > > > > Can't wait for my 3 pairs of german blue rams. > > > > > > > > > > > > Oh and bill the blue ones with pink belly's are the females. > > > > > > > > > > > > Amber > > > > > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 41608	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 7/1/2009
Subject: Lenny

Okay Lenny what were those suggestions you gave me for water conditioners that also take care of heavy metals? I want to find someone online who's willing to ship it to me on my fed ex account, heck maybe one of you guys might (no hints there, really, LOL) Amber

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 41609	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 7/1/2009
Subject: Re: Rams and incoming fish

Well, 75% off would mean that the shipping should have been 4 x $19.00 = $76.00, then remove 3/4th's (75%) and you are back down to only $19.00. NOW... how or why would shipping a 6 pound package cost $76.00? I haven't shipped anything, that heavy, overnight with FEDEX in a while but that sounds REALLY high.... BUT.. I went to FEDEX.com and did a test 6 lb. package from my zip code to your zip code and for Priority Overnight, it quoted $82.37. For regular Overnight, it said to call the 800#. Luckily you have that 75% discount! Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Amber Berglund Sent: Thursday, July 02, 2009 12:41 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Rams and incoming fish I get 75% off, so you can do the math, I suck at math ;) LOL (hubby is now doing the math, LOL) It's a nice perk for working for fedex, it's funny when I can get a better price than I could shipping it any other way, including fed ex ground (which I still get a discount but not as much). Amber Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > > > Yep. While most fish keepers should try to support their LFS, over the > Big Box Chain Pet Stores, some times, if the LFS isn't meeting their > customer's needs or they are charging outrageous prices, then they > have to face the reality that they will lose customers. Fortunately, > with the internet, there are many other options for folks so retailers > (LFS and Big Box) both need to go above and beyond the call of duty in > taking care of their customers... it's too easy for a customer to go > elsewhere nowadays... and that means any where around the world that > they choose to shop. > > I mix up my purchases between my LFS, Big Box (although the PetsMart > isn't getting as much since they went up on their prices so much) and > online eTailers. I make my list, stop by the LFS first to see if they > are close in pricing... usually they aren't very competitive on > off-the-shelf items but they are competitive on fish prices. Then I > check the shelf prices at the PetsMart, compared to their online > prices and then I decide whether to just go with an online order. > > Is $19.00 a super special price? How much would it have cost for us > non-FEDEX folks? > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> (Links to any articles referenced in > above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels > and also under Archives by Year, Month) > > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On Behalf Of Amber Berglund > Sent: Wednesday, July 01, 2009 9:05 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Rams and incoming fish > > Oh, and just so I can make everyone jealous, it cost me $19 dollars > for overnight shipping here to Alaska for my 6 lbs of fish ;) *runs > and hides > now* I bet if I do the math it'll be cheaper than it would have been > if I shopped from my LFS, how sad is that? > 78+19=$97 for the fish > 5 peppered cory's, sell for about 6-7 at my LFS > 6 bleeding heart tetras, sell for about 7 at my LFS > 6 german blue ram's, sell for over 10 at my LFS I think I'm going to > boycot the LFS ;) > > Amber > > Amber Berglund wrote: > > > > > > The Rams seemed to be the healthiest of all the fish, they are > > active and already searching for food. The bleeding hearts seemed a > > bit shaken up, but they're eating now too. The cory's are hiding, I > > think they didn't like their trip ;) I love the rams, tiny little > > guys must be just barely sexually mature, it's cute to watch them > > doing their pairing up dances. > > > > Amber > > > > Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > > > > > > > > > I'd put them in the 10G and just do 2X or 3X/week PWC's... or more > > > often if you can find the time. > > > > > > Normally, one shouldn't keep more than ten 1" fish (or five 2" > > > fish or three 3" fish) in a 10G tank but that is for long term purposes. > > > For the purposes of Q-tanks and H-tanks, these stocking guidelines > > > can be relaxed as long as the fish keeper does proper maintenance > > > on the tank during their stay. > > > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>>> > > > (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the > > > right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by > > > Year, > > Month) > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On Behalf Of Amber > > > Berglund > > > Sent: Wednesday, July 01, 2009 4:12 PM > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Rams and incoming fish > > > > > > Aww, the bleeding hearts are tiny! LOL, my males are going to be > > > in > > heaven > > > with their 6 little females ;) LOL They all look small, less than > > > an inch in size. > > > > > > Amber > > > > > > Amber Berglund wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > I got 16 fish, they should all be small, lemme open the box and > > > > look to see how many made it ;) LOL > > > > > > > > Amber > > > > > > > > Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > How many fish did you get in and how big? The problem with > > > > > using the 55G newly set up Walstad tank as a Q-tank is that if > > > > > something should go > > > > wrong > > > > > and you have to treat the fish, you may end up having to break > > > > > down that tank afterwards. A Q-tank is best kept very simple > > > > > so that it can be sterilized afterwards. Run to Wal-Mart and > > > > > buy one or more new 10G tanks or use the Sterilite clear > > > > > plastic tubs, possibly only one that is large enough for all > > > > > the fish, but I wouldn't use the 55G newly setup Walstad > > > > substrate > > > > > tank. > > > > > > > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > > > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 41610	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 7/2/2009
Subject: Re: Lenny

API's Tap Water Conditioner (really just a dechlor and heavy metal treatment... I'm not sure why they give it that fancy name) would be the best bargain and a GOOD product for you, especially since you do NOT have chloramine in your water. A 16 oz. bottle form DrsFosterSmith.com and other places costs around $5.00 and a 16 oz. bottle would treat nearly 10,000 gallons of chlorine treated water, which if you do not overdose it all the time, would last you around 2-3 years with weekly PWC's. Considering your shipping discount, you need to contact the shipping/customer service dept's. at many of the fish supply websites (DrsFosterSmith.com, BigAlsOnline.com, MarineDepot.com, ThatFishPlace.com, etc. and find one of them that would use your FEDEX shipping account. Then you could Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Amber Berglund Sent: Thursday, July 02, 2009 1:24 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Lenny Okay Lenny what were those suggestions you gave me for water conditioners that also take care of heavy metals? I want to find someone online who's willing to ship it to me on my fed ex account, heck maybe one of you guys might (no hints there, really, LOL) Amber

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 41611	From: Donna Ransome	Date: 7/2/2009
Subject: Re: Rams and incoming fish

Even with $50 overnight shipping, it is usually cheaper to order online than buy at the LFS as long as you buy more than 2 fish, LOL. $5/fish versus $14/fish for example. _____ From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Amber Berglund Sent: Wednesday, July 01, 2009 10:05 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Rams and incoming fish Oh, and just so I can make everyone jealous, it cost me $19 dollars for overnight shipping here to Alaska for my 6 lbs of fish ;) *runs and hides now* I bet if I do the math it'll be cheaper than it would have been if I shopped from my LFS, how sad is that? 78+19=$97 for the fish 5 peppered cory's, sell for about 6-7 at my LFS 6 bleeding heart tetras, sell for about 7 at my LFS 6 german blue ram's, sell for over 10 at my LFS I think I'm going to boycot the LFS ;) Amber Amber Berglund wrote: > > > The Rams seemed to be the healthiest of all the fish, they are active > and already searching for food. The bleeding hearts seemed a bit shaken > up, but they're eating now too. The cory's are hiding, I think they > didn't like their trip ;) > I love the rams, tiny little guys must be just barely sexually mature, > it's cute to watch them doing their pairing up dances. > > Amber > > Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > > > > > > I'd put them in the 10G and just do 2X or 3X/week PWC's... or more > > often if > > you can find the time. > > > > Normally, one shouldn't keep more than ten 1" fish (or five 2" fish or > > three > > 3" fish) in a 10G tank but that is for long term purposes. For the > > purposes > > of Q-tanks and H-tanks, these stocking guidelines can be relaxed as > > long as > > the fish keeper does proper maintenance on the tank during their stay. > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> blogspot.com> <http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> blogspot.com>> > > (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right > > side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, > Month) > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > [mailto:AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On > > Behalf Of Amber Berglund > > Sent: Wednesday, July 01, 2009 4:12 PM > > To: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Rams and incoming fish > > > > Aww, the bleeding hearts are tiny! LOL, my males are going to be in > heaven > > with their 6 little females ;) LOL They all look small, less than an > > inch in > > size. > > > > Amber > > > > Amber Berglund wrote: > > > > > > > > > I got 16 fish, they should all be small, lemme open the box and look > > > to see how many made it ;) LOL > > > > > > Amber > > > > > > Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > How many fish did you get in and how big? The problem with using the > > > > 55G newly set up Walstad tank as a Q-tank is that if something > > > > should go > > > wrong > > > > and you have to treat the fish, you may end up having to break down > > > > that tank afterwards. A Q-tank is best kept very simple so that it > > > > can be sterilized afterwards. Run to Wal-Mart and buy one or more > > > > new 10G tanks or use the Sterilite clear plastic tubs, possibly only > > > > one that is large enough for all the fish, but I wouldn't use the > > > > 55G newly setup Walstad > > > substrate > > > > tank. > > > > > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> blogspot.com> > > <http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> blogspot.com>> > > > <http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> blogspot.com>>> > > <http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> blogspot.com>> > > > <http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> blogspot.com>>>> > > > > (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the > > > > right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by > > > > Year, > > > Month) > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > > From: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > [mailto:AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On Behalf Of Amber Berglund > > > > Sent: Wednesday, July 01, 2009 1:23 PM > > > > To: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > Subject: [AquaticLife] Rams and incoming fish > > > > > > > > I have too many fish to put into a 10 gallon for quarantine as I > > > > made a large fish order should I go ahead and use the 55 gallon that > > > > I set up this weekend as a walstad tank? The cycled media is still > > > > in another > > > filter and > > > > the tank is only lightly planted until my plant order arrives this > > > week. I > > > > could go see what the lfs has left in stock but it was pretty bare > > > > for plants last weekend because they didn't put in a plant order. > > > > > > > > I think I'm going to stick to aquabid for my fish and plants from > > > now on. > > > > For the first time I will know what I am planting in the tank lol. > > > > Can't wait for my 3 pairs of german blue rams. > > > > > > > > Oh and bill the blue ones with pink belly's are the females. > > > > > > > > Amber > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 41612	From: bill 1433	Date: 7/2/2009
Subject: Amber, need to know? Rams and incoming fish

I didn't ask Amber????   From Where?  From Whom?   Need to ask now---------------I might have to do the same thing! Details of sale?  You liked the seller?  Easy to work with? Time?  From order to delivery?  Cost of shipping was reasonable I think to what I've seen so far.  Was it right to your door?   Bill --- On Wed, 7/1/09, Amber Berglund <amber@...> wrote: From: Amber Berglund <amber@...> Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Rams and incoming fish To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Date: Wednesday, July 1, 2009, 10:05 PM Oh, and just so I can make everyone jealous, it cost me $19 dollars for overnight shipping here to Alaska for my 6 lbs of fish ;) *runs and hides now* I bet if I do the math it'll be cheaper than it would have been if I shopped from my LFS, how sad is that? 78+19=$97 for the fish 5 peppered cory's, sell for about 6-7 at my LFS 6 bleeding heart tetras, sell for about 7 at my LFS 6 german blue ram's, sell for over 10 at my LFS I think I'm going to boycot the LFS ;) Amber Amber Berglund wrote: > > > The Rams seemed to be the healthiest of all the fish, they are active > and already searching for food. The bleeding hearts seemed a bit shaken > up, but they're eating now too. The cory's are hiding, I think they > didn't like their trip ;) > I love the rams, tiny little guys must be just barely sexually mature, > it's cute to watch them doing their pairing up dances. > > Amber > > Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > > > > > > I'd put them in the 10G and just do 2X or 3X/week PWC's... or more > > often if > > you can find the time. > > > > Normally, one shouldn't keep more than ten 1" fish (or five 2" fish or > > three > > 3" fish) in a 10G tank but that is for long term purposes. For the > > purposes > > of Q-tanks and H-tanks, these stocking guidelines can be relaxed as > > long as > > the fish keeper does proper maintenance on the tank during their stay. > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>> > > (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right > > side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, > Month) > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On > > Behalf Of Amber Berglund > > Sent: Wednesday, July 01, 2009 4:12 PM > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Rams and incoming fish > > > > Aww, the bleeding hearts are tiny! LOL, my males are going to be in > heaven > > with their 6 little females ;) LOL They all look small, less than an > > inch in > > size. > > > > Amber > > > > Amber Berglund wrote: > > > > > > > > > I got 16 fish, they should all be small, lemme open the box and look > > > to see how many made it ;) LOL > > > > > > Amber > > > > > > Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > How many fish did you get in and how big? The problem with using the > > > > 55G newly set up Walstad tank as a Q-tank is that if something > > > > should go > > > wrong > > > > and you have to treat the fish, you may end up having to break down > > > > that tank afterwards. A Q-tank is best kept very simple so that it > > > > can be sterilized afterwards. Run to Wal-Mart and buy one or more > > > > new 10G tanks or use the Sterilite clear plastic tubs, possibly only > > > > one that is large enough for all the fish, but I wouldn't use the > > > > 55G newly setup Walstad > > > substrate > > > > tank. > > > > > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>> > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>>> > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>> > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>>>> > > > > (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the > > > > right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by > > > > Year, > > > Month) > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On Behalf Of Amber Berglund > > > > Sent: Wednesday, July 01, 2009 1:23 PM > > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > Subject: [AquaticLife] Rams and incoming fish > > > > > > > > I have too many fish to put into a 10 gallon for quarantine as I > > > > made a large fish order should I go ahead and use the 55 gallon that > > > > I set up this weekend as a walstad tank? The cycled media is still > > > > in another > > > filter and > > > > the tank is only lightly planted until my plant order arrives this > > > week. I > > > > could go see what the lfs has left in stock but it was pretty bare > > > > for plants last weekend because they didn't put in a plant order. > > > > > > > > I think I'm going to stick to aquabid for my fish and plants from > > > now on. > > > > For the first time I will know what I am planting in the tank lol. > > > > Can't wait for my 3 pairs of german blue rams. > > > > > > > > Oh and bill the blue ones with pink belly's are the females. > > > > > > > > Amber > > > > > > ------------------------------------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the home page.  Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com to receive the digest, which includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com for the No E-Mail option where you will still be able to read messages on the group and post replies. Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com to receive individual e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 41613	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 7/2/2009
Subject: Re: Rams and incoming fish

It's because we're in one of those REALLY out of the way areas, and yes, I love the discount too ;) Amber Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > > > Well, 75% off would mean that the shipping should have been 4 x $19.00 = > $76.00, then remove 3/4th's (75%) and you are back down to only $19.00. > NOW... how or why would shipping a 6 pound package cost $76.00? I haven't > shipped anything, that heavy, overnight with FEDEX in a while but that > sounds REALLY high.... BUT.. I went to FEDEX.com and did a test 6 lb. > package from my zip code to your zip code and for Priority Overnight, it > quoted $82.37. For regular Overnight, it said to call the 800#. > > Luckily you have that 75% discount! > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right > side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On > Behalf Of Amber Berglund > Sent: Thursday, July 02, 2009 12:41 AM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Rams and incoming fish > > I get 75% off, so you can do the math, I suck at math ;) LOL (hubby is now > doing the math, LOL) It's a nice perk for working for fedex, it's > funny when > I can get a better price than I could shipping it any other way, including > fed ex ground (which I still get a discount but not as much). > > Amber > > Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > > > > > > Yep. While most fish keepers should try to support their LFS, over the > > Big Box Chain Pet Stores, some times, if the LFS isn't meeting their > > customer's needs or they are charging outrageous prices, then they > > have to face the reality that they will lose customers. Fortunately, > > with the internet, there are many other options for folks so retailers > > (LFS and Big Box) both need to go above and beyond the call of duty in > > taking care of their customers... it's too easy for a customer to go > > elsewhere nowadays... and that means any where around the world that > > they choose to shop. > > > > I mix up my purchases between my LFS, Big Box (although the PetsMart > > isn't getting as much since they went up on their prices so much) and > > online eTailers. I make my list, stop by the LFS first to see if they > > are close in pricing... usually they aren't very competitive on > > off-the-shelf items but they are competitive on fish prices. Then I > > check the shelf prices at the PetsMart, compared to their online > > prices and then I decide whether to just go with an online order. > > > > Is $19.00 a super special price? How much would it have cost for us > > non-FEDEX folks? > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>> > (Links to any articles referenced in > > above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels > > and also under Archives by Year, Month) > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On Behalf Of Amber Berglund > > Sent: Wednesday, July 01, 2009 9:05 PM > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Rams and incoming fish > > > > Oh, and just so I can make everyone jealous, it cost me $19 dollars > > for overnight shipping here to Alaska for my 6 lbs of fish ;) *runs > > and hides > > now* I bet if I do the math it'll be cheaper than it would have been > > if I shopped from my LFS, how sad is that? > > 78+19=$97 for the fish > > 5 peppered cory's, sell for about 6-7 at my LFS > > 6 bleeding heart tetras, sell for about 7 at my LFS > > 6 german blue ram's, sell for over 10 at my LFS I think I'm going to > > boycot the LFS ;) > > > > Amber > > > > Amber Berglund wrote: > > > > > > > > > The Rams seemed to be the healthiest of all the fish, they are > > > active and already searching for food. The bleeding hearts seemed a > > > bit shaken up, but they're eating now too. The cory's are hiding, I > > > think they didn't like their trip ;) I love the rams, tiny little > > > guys must be just barely sexually mature, it's cute to watch them > > > doing their pairing up dances. > > > > > > Amber > > > > > > Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > I'd put them in the 10G and just do 2X or 3X/week PWC's... or more > > > > often if you can find the time. > > > > > > > > Normally, one shouldn't keep more than ten 1" fish (or five 2" > > > > fish or three 3" fish) in a 10G tank but that is for long term > purposes. > > > > For the purposes of Q-tanks and H-tanks, these stocking guidelines > > > > can be relaxed as long as the fish keeper does proper maintenance > > > > on the tank during their stay. > > > > > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>> > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>>> > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>> > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>>>> > > > > (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the > > > > right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by > > > > Year, > > > Month) > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On Behalf Of Amber > > > > Berglund > > > > Sent: Wednesday, July 01, 2009 4:12 PM > > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Rams and incoming fish > > > > > > > > Aww, the bleeding hearts are tiny! LOL, my males are going to be > > > > in > > > heaven > > > > with their 6 little females ;) LOL They all look small, less than > > > > an inch in size. > > > > > > > > Amber > > > > > > > > Amber Berglund wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I got 16 fish, they should all be small, lemme open the box and > > > > > look to see how many made it ;) LOL > > > > > > > > > > Amber > > > > > > > > > > Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > How many fish did you get in and how big? The problem with > > > > > > using the 55G newly set up Walstad tank as a Q-tank is that if > > > > > > something should go > > > > > wrong > > > > > > and you have to treat the fish, you may end up having to break > > > > > > down that tank afterwards. A Q-tank is best kept very simple > > > > > > so that it can be sterilized afterwards. Run to Wal-Mart and > > > > > > buy one or more new 10G tanks or use the Sterilite clear > > > > > > plastic tubs, possibly only one that is large enough for all > > > > > > the fish, but I wouldn't use the 55G newly setup Walstad > > > > > substrate > > > > > > tank. > > > > > > > > > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > > > > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 41614	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 7/2/2009
Subject: Re: Lenny

I may have to change this coming fall as they have stated that they are going to change how they do their water treatment, I think they said they were going to start adding something else not just chlorine. I'd have to go back through my emails ;) LOL I will have to call those stores directly, and then ask for a manager because all the shipping clerks have only been taught the one way of doing things and my way is different ;) LOL I'd rather find a smaller store that will ship, the bigger the store the more unreasonable they are at changing anything they do. Amber Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > > > API's Tap Water Conditioner (really just a dechlor and heavy metal > treatment... I'm not sure why they give it that fancy name) would be the > best bargain and a GOOD product for you, especially since you do NOT have > chloramine in your water. A 16 oz. bottle form DrsFosterSmith.com and > other > places costs around $5.00 and a 16 oz. bottle would treat nearly 10,000 > gallons of chlorine treated water, which if you do not overdose it all the > time, would last you around 2-3 years with weekly PWC's. > > Considering your shipping discount, you need to contact the > shipping/customer service dept's. at many of the fish supply websites > (DrsFosterSmith.com, BigAlsOnline.com, MarineDepot.com, ThatFishPlace.com, > etc. and find one of them that would use your FEDEX shipping account. Then > you could > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right > side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) > > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On > Behalf Of Amber Berglund > Sent: Thursday, July 02, 2009 1:24 AM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Subject: [AquaticLife] Lenny > > Okay Lenny what were those suggestions you gave me for water conditioners > that also take care of heavy metals? > I want to find someone online who's willing to ship it to me on my fed ex > account, heck maybe one of you guys might (no hints there, really, LOL) > > Amber > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 41615	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 7/2/2009
Subject: Re: Amber, need to know? Rams and incoming fish

The seller is wetspotcx on aquabid, contact Grey directly and I'm sure he would be more than willing to work with you. They were very reasonable with all my requests, such as sexing the fish before sending them so I knew I got 3 pairs of rams not 6 males ;) LOL My shipping is discounted because I work for fed ex, most shipping for the Lower US is around 50 for overnight shipping depending on your zip code, just make it a big order and it'll be worth it. Amber bill 1433 wrote: > > > > I didn't ask Amber???? > > >From Where? From Whom? > > Need to ask now---------------I might have to do the same thing! > Details of sale? You liked the seller? Easy to work with? > Time? From order to delivery? Cost of shipping was reasonable I > think to what I've seen so far. Was it right to your door? > > Bill > > --- On Wed, 7/1/09, Amber Berglund <amber@... > <mailto:amber%40rose-fields.com>> wrote: > > From: Amber Berglund <amber@... > <mailto:amber%40rose-fields.com>> > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Rams and incoming fish > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Date: Wednesday, July 1, 2009, 10:05 PM > > Oh, and just so I can make everyone jealous, it cost me $19 dollars for > overnight shipping here to Alaska for my 6 lbs of fish ;) > *runs and hides now* > I bet if I do the math it'll be cheaper than it would have been if I > shopped from my LFS, how sad is that? > 78+19=$97 for the fish > 5 peppered cory's, sell for about 6-7 at my LFS > 6 bleeding heart tetras, sell for about 7 at my LFS > 6 german blue ram's, sell for over 10 at my LFS > I think I'm going to boycot the LFS ;) > > Amber > > Amber Berglund wrote: > > > > > > The Rams seemed to be the healthiest of all the fish, they are active > > and already searching for food. The bleeding hearts seemed a bit shaken > > up, but they're eating now too. The cory's are hiding, I think they > > didn't like their trip ;) > > I love the rams, tiny little guys must be just barely sexually mature, > > it's cute to watch them doing their pairing up dances. > > > > Amber > > > > Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > > > > > > > > > I'd put them in the 10G and just do 2X or 3X/week PWC's... or more > > > often if > > > you can find the time. > > > > > > Normally, one shouldn't keep more than ten 1" fish (or five 2" fish or > > > three > > > 3" fish) in a 10G tank but that is for long term purposes. For the > > > purposes > > > of Q-tanks and H-tanks, these stocking guidelines can be relaxed as > > > long as > > > the fish keeper does proper maintenance on the tank during their stay. > > > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>>> > > > (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the > right > > > side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, > > Month) > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On > > > Behalf Of Amber Berglund > > > Sent: Wednesday, July 01, 2009 4:12 PM > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Rams and incoming fish > > > > > > Aww, the bleeding hearts are tiny! LOL, my males are going to be in > > heaven > > > with their 6 little females ;) LOL They all look small, less than an > > > inch in > > > size. > > > > > > Amber > > > > > > Amber Berglund wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > I got 16 fish, they should all be small, lemme open the box and look > > > > to see how many made it ;) LOL > > > > > > > > Amber > > > > > > > > Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > How many fish did you get in and how big? The problem with > using the > > > > > 55G newly set up Walstad tank as a Q-tank is that if something > > > > > should go > > > > wrong > > > > > and you have to treat the fish, you may end up having to break > down > > > > > that tank afterwards. A Q-tank is best kept very simple so that it > > > > > can be sterilized afterwards. Run to Wal-Mart and buy one or more > > > > > new 10G tanks or use the Sterilite clear plastic tubs, > possibly only > > > > > one that is large enough for all the fish, but I wouldn't use the > > > > > 55G newly setup Walstad > > > > substrate > > > > > tank. > > > > > > > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > > > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>> > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>>> > > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>> > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>>>> > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>> > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>>> > > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>> > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>>>>> > > > > > (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the > > > > > right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by > > > > > Year, > > > > Month) > > > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On Behalf Of Amber > Berglund > > > > > Sent: Wednesday, July 01, 2009 1:23 PM > > > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > Subject: [AquaticLife] Rams and incoming fish > > > > > > > > > > I have too many fish to put into a 10 gallon for quarantine as I > > > > > made a large fish order should I go ahead and use the 55 > gallon that > > > > > I set up this weekend as a walstad tank? The cycled media is still > > > > > in another > > > > filter and > > > > > the tank is only lightly planted until my plant order arrives this > > > > week. I > > > > > could go see what the lfs has left in stock but it was pretty bare > > > > > for plants last weekend because they didn't put in a plant order. > > > > > > > > > > I think I'm going to stick to aquabid for my fish and plants from > > > > now on. > > > > > For the first time I will know what I am planting in the tank lol. > > > > > Can't wait for my 3 pairs of german blue rams. > > > > > > > > > > Oh and bill the blue ones with pink belly's are the females. > > > > > > > > > > Amber > > > > > > > > > > > > ------------------------------------ > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. > ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> > PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT > important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message > MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- > <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. > > If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of unsubscribing, > you can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My > Membership" on the home page. > > Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:aquaticlife-digest%40yahoogroups.com> to receive the digest, > which includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email > > Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:aquaticlife-nomail%40yahoogroups.com> for the No E-Mail option > where you will still be able to read messages on the group and post > replies. > > Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:aquaticlife-normal%40yahoogroups.com> to receive individual > e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 41616	From: bill 1433	Date: 7/2/2009
Subject: Re: Amber, need to know? Rams and incoming fish

Thanks Amber! I forgot the FedEx discount to you! I thought that was l-o-w! Thanks also for the seller info will check. Bill --- On Thu, 7/2/09, Amber Berglund <amber@...> wrote: > From: Amber Berglund <amber@...> > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Amber, need to know? Rams and incoming fish > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Date: Thursday, July 2, 2009, 10:48 AM > The seller is wetspotcx on aquabid, > contact Grey directly and I'm sure > he would be more than willing to work with you. They were > very > reasonable with all my requests, such as sexing the fish > before sending > them so I knew I got 3 pairs of rams not 6 males ;) LOL > My shipping is discounted because I work for fed ex, most > shipping for > the Lower US is around 50 for overnight shipping depending > on your zip > code, just make it a big order and it'll be worth it. > > Amber > > bill 1433 wrote: > > > > > > > > I didn't ask Amber???? > >  > > >From Where?  From Whom? > >  > > Need to ask now---------------I might have to do the > same thing! > > Details of sale?  You liked the seller?  > Easy to work with? > > Time?  From order to delivery?  Cost of > shipping was reasonable I > > think to what I've seen so far.  Was it right to > your door? > >  > > Bill > > > > --- On Wed, 7/1/09, Amber Berglund <amber@... > > > <mailto:amber%40rose-fields.com>> wrote: > > > > From: Amber Berglund <amber@... > > > <mailto:amber%40rose-fields.com>> > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Rams and incoming fish > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > Date: Wednesday, July 1, 2009, 10:05 PM > > > > Oh, and just so I can make everyone jealous, it cost > me $19 dollars for > > overnight shipping here to Alaska for my 6 lbs of fish > ;) > > *runs and hides now* > > I bet if I do the math it'll be cheaper than it would > have been if I > > shopped from my LFS, how sad is that? > > 78+19=$97 for the fish > > 5 peppered cory's, sell for about 6-7 at my LFS > > 6 bleeding heart tetras, sell for about 7 at my LFS > > 6 german blue ram's, sell for over 10 at my LFS > > I think I'm going to boycot the LFS ;) > > > > Amber > > > > Amber Berglund wrote: > > > > > > > > > The Rams seemed to be the healthiest of all the > fish, they are active > > > and already searching for food. The bleeding > hearts seemed a bit shaken > > > up, but they're eating now too. The cory's are > hiding, I think they > > > didn't like their trip ;) > > > I love the rams, tiny little guys must be just > barely sexually mature, > > > it's cute to watch them doing their pairing up > dances. > > > > > > Amber > > > > > > Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > I'd put them in the 10G and just do 2X or > 3X/week PWC's... or more > > > > often if > > > > you can find the time. > > > > > > > > Normally, one shouldn't keep more than ten > 1" fish (or five 2" fish or > > > > three > > > > 3" fish) in a 10G tank but that is for long > term purposes. For the > > > > purposes > > > > of Q-tanks and H-tanks, these stocking > guidelines can be relaxed as > > > > long as > > > > the fish keeper does proper maintenance on > the tank during their stay. > > > > > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>> > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>>> > > > > (Links to any articles referenced in above > reply are listed on the > > right > > > > side, alphabetically under Labels and also > under Archives by Year, > > > Month) > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On > > > > Behalf Of Amber Berglund > > > > Sent: Wednesday, July 01, 2009 4:12 PM > > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Rams and incoming > fish > > > > > > > > Aww, the bleeding hearts are tiny! LOL, my > males are going to be in > > > heaven > > > > with their 6 little females ;) LOL They all > look small, less than an > > > > inch in > > > > size. > > > > > > > > Amber > > > > > > > > Amber Berglund wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I got 16 fish, they should all be > small, lemme open the box and look > > > > > to see how many made it ;) LOL > > > > > > > > > > Amber > > > > > > > > > > Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > How many fish did you get in and > how big? The problem with > > using the > > > > > > 55G newly set up Walstad tank as a > Q-tank is that if something > > > > > > should go > > > > > wrong > > > > > > and you have to treat the fish, > you may end up having to break > > down > > > > > > that tank afterwards. A Q-tank is > best kept very simple so that it > > > > > > can be sterilized afterwards. Run > to Wal-Mart and buy one or more > > > > > > new 10G tanks or use the Sterilite > clear plastic tubs, > > possibly only > > > > > > one that is large enough for all > the fish, but I wouldn't use the > > > > > > 55G newly setup Walstad > > > > > substrate > > > > > > tank. > > > > > > > > > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > > > > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>> > > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>>> > > > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>> > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>>>> > > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>> > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>>> > > > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>> > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>>>>> > > > > > > (Links to any articles referenced > in above reply are listed on the > > > > > > right side, alphabetically under > Labels and also under Archives by > > > > > > Year, > > > > > Month) > > > > > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > > > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On Behalf Of > Amber > > Berglund > > > > > > Sent: Wednesday, July 01, 2009 > 1:23 PM > > > > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > Subject: [AquaticLife] Rams and > incoming fish > > > > > > > > > > > > I have too many fish to put into a > 10 gallon for quarantine as I > > > > > > made a large fish order should I > go ahead and use the 55 > > gallon that > > > > > > I set up this weekend as a walstad > tank? The cycled media is still > > > > > > in another > > > > > filter and > > > > > > the tank is only lightly planted > until my plant order arrives this > > > > > week. I > > > > > > could go see what the lfs has left > in stock but it was pretty bare > > > > > > for plants last weekend because > they didn't put in a plant order. > > > > > > > > > > > > I think I'm going to stick to > aquabid for my fish and plants from > > > > > now on. > > > > > > For the first time I will know > what I am planting in the tank lol. > > > > > > Can't wait for my 3 pairs of > german blue rams. > > > > > > > > > > > > Oh and bill the blue ones with > pink belly's are the females. > > > > > > > > > > > > Amber > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ------------------------------------ > > > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when > replying, Thank You. > > > ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> > ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> > > PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that > is NOT > > important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of > the original message > > MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was > re: old subject)" <- > > > <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. > , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. > > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. > > > > If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead > of unsubscribing, > > you can change your delivery option by clicking on > "Edit My > > Membership" on the home page. > > > > Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com > > > <mailto:aquaticlife-digest%40yahoogroups.com> to > receive the digest, > > which includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single > email > > > > Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com > > > <mailto:aquaticlife-nomail%40yahoogroups.com> > for the No E-Mail option > > where you will still be able to read messages on the > group and post > > replies. > > > > Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com > > > <mailto:aquaticlife-normal%40yahoogroups.com> to > receive individual > > e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > > ------------------------------------ > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when > replying, Thank You. > ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> > ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> > PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is > NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of > the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new > subject (was re: old subject)" <- > <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. > , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. > > If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of > unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by > clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the home page.  > > Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com > to receive the digest, which includes up to 25 posts at a > time in a single email > > Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com > for the No E-Mail option where you will still be able to > read messages on the group and post replies. > > Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com > to receive individual e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links > > >     mailto:AquaticLife-fullfeatured@yahoogroups.com > > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 41617	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 7/2/2009
Subject: Re: Amber, need to know? Rams and incoming fish

Best part of my discount is that it even works for international orders, I did a price check on getting a box from bangkok and the price was less than $40 for international priority, only thing is that it takes 3-5 days depending on customs ;) LOL I almost bought those purple guppy's from thialand except for the fact that it takes so long for them to get there, LOL. Amber bill 1433 wrote: > > > > Thanks Amber! > > I forgot the FedEx discount to you! I thought that was l-o-w! > > Thanks also for the seller info will check. > > Bill > > --- On Thu, 7/2/09, Amber Berglund <amber@... > <mailto:amber%40rose-fields.com>> wrote: > > > From: Amber Berglund <amber@... > <mailto:amber%40rose-fields.com>> > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Amber, need to know? Rams and incoming fish > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > Date: Thursday, July 2, 2009, 10:48 AM > > The seller is wetspotcx on aquabid, > > contact Grey directly and I'm sure > > he would be more than willing to work with you. They were > > very > > reasonable with all my requests, such as sexing the fish > > before sending > > them so I knew I got 3 pairs of rams not 6 males ;) LOL > > My shipping is discounted because I work for fed ex, most > > shipping for > > the Lower US is around 50 for overnight shipping depending > > on your zip > > code, just make it a big order and it'll be worth it. > > > > Amber > > > > bill 1433 wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > I didn't ask Amber???? > > > > > > >From Where? From Whom? > > > > > > Need to ask now---------------I might have to do the > > same thing! > > > Details of sale? You liked the seller? > > Easy to work with? > > > Time? From order to delivery? Cost of > > shipping was reasonable I > > > think to what I've seen so far. Was it right to > > your door? > > > > > > Bill > > > > > > --- On Wed, 7/1/09, Amber Berglund <amber@... > <mailto:amber%40rose-fields.com> > > > > > <mailto:amber%40rose-fields.com>> wrote: > > > > > > From: Amber Berglund <amber@... > <mailto:amber%40rose-fields.com> > > > > > <mailto:amber%40rose-fields.com>> > > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Rams and incoming fish > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > Date: Wednesday, July 1, 2009, 10:05 PM > > > > > > Oh, and just so I can make everyone jealous, it cost > > me $19 dollars for > > > overnight shipping here to Alaska for my 6 lbs of fish > > ;) > > > *runs and hides now* > > > I bet if I do the math it'll be cheaper than it would > > have been if I > > > shopped from my LFS, how sad is that? > > > 78+19=$97 for the fish > > > 5 peppered cory's, sell for about 6-7 at my LFS > > > 6 bleeding heart tetras, sell for about 7 at my LFS > > > 6 german blue ram's, sell for over 10 at my LFS > > > I think I'm going to boycot the LFS ;) > > > > > > Amber > > > > > > Amber Berglund wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > The Rams seemed to be the healthiest of all the > > fish, they are active > > > > and already searching for food. The bleeding > > hearts seemed a bit shaken > > > > up, but they're eating now too. The cory's are > > hiding, I think they > > > > didn't like their trip ;) > > > > I love the rams, tiny little guys must be just > > barely sexually mature, > > > > it's cute to watch them doing their pairing up > > dances. > > > > > > > > Amber > > > > > > > > Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I'd put them in the 10G and just do 2X or > > 3X/week PWC's... or more > > > > > often if > > > > > you can find the time. > > > > > > > > > > Normally, one shouldn't keep more than ten > > 1" fish (or five 2" fish or > > > > > three > > > > > 3" fish) in a 10G tank but that is for long > > term purposes. For the > > > > > purposes > > > > > of Q-tanks and H-tanks, these stocking > > guidelines can be relaxed as > > > > > long as > > > > > the fish keeper does proper maintenance on > > the tank during their stay. > > > > > > > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > > > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>> > > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>>> > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>> > > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>>>> > > > > > (Links to any articles referenced in above > > reply are listed on the > > > right > > > > > side, alphabetically under Labels and also > > under Archives by Year, > > > > Month) > > > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On > > > > > Behalf Of Amber Berglund > > > > > Sent: Wednesday, July 01, 2009 4:12 PM > > > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Rams and incoming > > fish > > > > > > > > > > Aww, the bleeding hearts are tiny! LOL, my > > males are going to be in > > > > heaven > > > > > with their 6 little females ;) LOL They all > > look small, less than an > > > > > inch in > > > > > size. > > > > > > > > > > Amber > > > > > > > > > > Amber Berglund wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I got 16 fish, they should all be > > small, lemme open the box and look > > > > > > to see how many made it ;) LOL > > > > > > > > > > > > Amber > > > > > > > > > > > > Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > How many fish did you get in and > > how big? The problem with > > > using the > > > > > > > 55G newly set up Walstad tank as a > > Q-tank is that if something > > > > > > > should go > > > > > > wrong > > > > > > > and you have to treat the fish, > > you may end up having to break > > > down > > > > > > > that tank afterwards. A Q-tank is > > best kept very simple so that it > > > > > > > can be sterilized afterwards. Run > > to Wal-Mart and buy one or more > > > > > > > new 10G tanks or use the Sterilite > > clear plastic tubs, > > > possibly only > > > > > > > one that is large enough for all > > the fish, but I wouldn't use the > > > > > > > 55G newly setup Walstad > > > > > > substrate > > > > > > > tank. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > > > > > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>> > > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>>> > > > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>> > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>>>> > > > > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>> > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>>> > > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>> > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>>>>> > > > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>> > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>>> > > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>> > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>>>> > > > > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>> > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>>> > > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>> > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>>>>>> > > > > > > > (Links to any articles referenced > > in above reply are listed on the > > > > > > > right side, alphabetically under > > Labels and also under Archives by > > > > > > > Year, > > > > > > Month) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > > > > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On Behalf Of > > Amber > > > Berglund > > > > > > > Sent: Wednesday, July 01, 2009 > > 1:23 PM > > > > > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > Subject: [AquaticLife] Rams and > > incoming fish > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I have too many fish to put into a > > 10 gallon for quarantine as I > > > > > > > made a large fish order should I > > go ahead and use the 55 > > > gallon that > > > > > > > I set up this weekend as a walstad > > tank? The cycled media is still > > > > > > > in another > > > > > > filter and > > > > > > > the tank is only lightly planted > > until my plant order arrives this > > > > > > week. I > > > > > > > could go see what the lfs has left > > in stock but it was pretty bare > > > > > > > for plants last weekend because > > they didn't put in a plant order. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I think I'm going to stick to > > aquabid for my fish and plants from > > > > > > now on. > > > > > > > For the first time I will know > > what I am planting in the tank lol. > > > > > > > Can't wait for my 3 pairs of > > german blue rams. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Oh and bill the blue ones with > > pink belly's are the females. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Amber > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ------------------------------------ > > > > > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when > > replying, Thank You. > > > > > ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> > > ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> > > > PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that > > is NOT > > > important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of > > the original message > > > MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was > > re: old subject)" <- > > > > > <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. > > , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. > > > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. > > > > > > If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead > > of unsubscribing, > > > you can change your delivery option by clicking on > > "Edit My > > > Membership" on the home page. > > > > > > Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:aquaticlife-digest%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > <mailto:aquaticlife-digest%40yahoogroups.com> to > > receive the digest, > > > which includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single > > email > > > > > > Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:aquaticlife-nomail%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > <mailto:aquaticlife-nomail%40yahoogroups.com> > > for the No E-Mail option > > > where you will still be able to read messages on the > > group and post > > > replies. > > > > > > Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:aquaticlife-normal%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > <mailto:aquaticlife-normal%40yahoogroups.com> to > > receive individual > > > e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > > > > > > > ------------------------------------ > > > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when > > replying, Thank You. > > ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> > > ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> > > PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is > > NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of > > the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new > > subject (was re: old subject)" <- > > <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. > > , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. > > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. > > > > If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of > > unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by > > clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the home page. > > > > Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:aquaticlife-digest%40yahoogroups.com> > > to receive the digest, which includes up to 25 posts at a > > time in a single email > > > > Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:aquaticlife-nomail%40yahoogroups.com> > > for the No E-Mail option where you will still be able to > > read messages on the group and post replies. > > > > Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:aquaticlife-normal%40yahoogroups.com> > > to receive individual e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > mailto:AquaticLife-fullfeatured@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife-fullfeatured%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 41618	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 7/2/2009
Subject: Re: Lenny

No. API's Tap Water Conditioner still works with Chloramine, it's just not as efficient. For Chlorine, the dosage is 1ml per 20G. For Chloramine, the dosage is 1ml per 5G, so the 16 oz. would only treat around 2,400G instead of 9,600G with Chlorine. Still, a bottle would last you over six months for $5.00 with Chloramine or two+ years with Chlorine. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Amber Berglund Sent: Thursday, July 02, 2009 9:47 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Lenny I may have to change this coming fall as they have stated that they are going to change how they do their water treatment, I think they said they were going to start adding something else not just chlorine. I'd have to go back through my emails ;) LOL I will have to call those stores directly, and then ask for a manager because all the shipping clerks have only been taught the one way of doing things and my way is different ;) LOL I'd rather find a smaller store that will ship, the bigger the store the more unreasonable they are at changing anything they do. Amber Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > > > API's Tap Water Conditioner (really just a dechlor and heavy metal > treatment... I'm not sure why they give it that fancy name) would be > the best bargain and a GOOD product for you, especially since you do > NOT have chloramine in your water. A 16 oz. bottle form > DrsFosterSmith.com and other places costs around $5.00 and a 16 oz. > bottle would treat nearly 10,000 gallons of chlorine treated water, > which if you do not overdose it all the time, would last you around > 2-3 years with weekly PWC's. > > Considering your shipping discount, you need to contact the > shipping/customer service dept's. at many of the fish supply websites > (DrsFosterSmith.com, BigAlsOnline.com, MarineDepot.com, > ThatFishPlace.com, etc. and find one of them that would use your FEDEX > shipping account. Then you could > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> (Links to any articles referenced in > above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels > and also under Archives by Year, Month) > > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On Behalf Of Amber Berglund > Sent: Thursday, July 02, 2009 1:24 AM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Subject: [AquaticLife] Lenny > > Okay Lenny what were those suggestions you gave me for water > conditioners that also take care of heavy metals? > I want to find someone online who's willing to ship it to me on my fed > ex account, heck maybe one of you guys might (no hints there, really, > LOL) > > Amber

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 41619	From: bill 1433	Date: 7/2/2009
Subject: Re: Lenny

Congratulations! I think you, Amber, and myself are the only 3 on the Internet Today???? Bill --- On Thu, 7/2/09, Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@...> wrote: > From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@...> > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Lenny > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Date: Thursday, July 2, 2009, 12:16 PM > No.  API's Tap Water Conditioner > still works with Chloramine, it's just not > as efficient.  For Chlorine, the dosage is 1ml per > 20G.  For Chloramine, the > dosage is 1ml per 5G, so the 16 oz. would only treat around > 2,400G instead > of 9,600G with Chlorine.  Still, a bottle would last > you over six months for > $5.00 with Chloramine or two+ years with Chlorine. > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed > on the right > side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives > by Year, Month) > > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] > On > Behalf Of Amber Berglund > Sent: Thursday, July 02, 2009 9:47 AM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Lenny > > I may have to change this coming fall as they have stated > that they are > going to change how they do their water treatment, I think > they said they > were going to start adding something else not just > chlorine. > I'd have to go back through my emails ;) LOL I will have to > call those > stores directly, and then ask for a manager because all the > shipping clerks > have only been taught the one way of doing things and my > way is different ;) > LOL I'd rather find a smaller store that will ship, the > bigger the store the > more unreasonable they are at changing anything they do. > > Amber > > Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > > > > > > API's Tap Water Conditioner (really just a dechlor and > heavy metal > > treatment... I'm not sure why they give it that fancy > name) would be > > the best bargain and a GOOD product for you, > especially since you do > > NOT have chloramine in your water. A 16 oz. bottle > form > > DrsFosterSmith.com and other places costs around $5.00 > and a 16 oz. > > bottle would treat nearly 10,000 gallons of chlorine > treated water, > > which if you do not overdose it all the time, would > last you around > > 2-3 years with weekly PWC's. > > > > Considering your shipping discount, you need to > contact the > > shipping/customer service dept's. at many of the fish > supply websites > > (DrsFosterSmith.com, BigAlsOnline.com, > MarineDepot.com, > > ThatFishPlace.com, etc. and find one of them that > would use your FEDEX > > shipping account. Then you could > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> (Links > to any articles referenced in > > above reply are listed on the right side, > alphabetically under Labels > > and also under Archives by Year, Month) > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On > Behalf Of Amber Berglund > > Sent: Thursday, July 02, 2009 1:24 AM > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > Subject: [AquaticLife] Lenny > > > > Okay Lenny what were those suggestions you gave me for > water > > conditioners that also take care of heavy metals? > > I want to find someone online who's willing to ship it > to me on my fed > > ex account, heck maybe one of you guys might (no hints > there, really, > > LOL) > > > > Amber > > > > ------------------------------------ > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when > replying, Thank You. > ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> > ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> > PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is > NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of > the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new > subject (was re: old subject)" <- > <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. > , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. > > If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of > unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by > clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the home page.  > > Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com > to receive the digest, which includes up to 25 posts at a > time in a single email > > Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com > for the No E-Mail option where you will still be able to > read messages on the group and post replies. > > Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com > to receive individual e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links > > >     mailto:AquaticLife-fullfeatured@yahoogroups.com > > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 41620	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 7/2/2009
Subject: Re: Lenny

Well I work, but I do take a lunch ;) LOL. Well this is more of a breakfast, but I gotta take breaks when I can get 'em ;) Amber bill 1433 wrote: > > > > Congratulations! > > I think you, Amber, and myself are the only 3 on the Internet Today???? > > Bill > > --- On Thu, 7/2/09, Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@... > <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com>> wrote: > > > From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@... > <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com>> > > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Lenny > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > Date: Thursday, July 2, 2009, 12:16 PM > > No. API's Tap Water Conditioner > > still works with Chloramine, it's just not > > as efficient. For Chlorine, the dosage is 1ml per > > 20G. For Chloramine, the > > dosage is 1ml per 5G, so the 16 oz. would only treat around > > 2,400G instead > > of 9,600G with Chlorine. Still, a bottle would last > > you over six months for > > $5.00 with Chloramine or two+ years with Chlorine. > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed > > on the right > > side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives > > by Year, Month) > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] > > On > > Behalf Of Amber Berglund > > Sent: Thursday, July 02, 2009 9:47 AM > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Lenny > > > > I may have to change this coming fall as they have stated > > that they are > > going to change how they do their water treatment, I think > > they said they > > were going to start adding something else not just > > chlorine. > > I'd have to go back through my emails ;) LOL I will have to > > call those > > stores directly, and then ask for a manager because all the > > shipping clerks > > have only been taught the one way of doing things and my > > way is different ;) > > LOL I'd rather find a smaller store that will ship, the > > bigger the store the > > more unreasonable they are at changing anything they do. > > > > Amber > > > > Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > > > > > > > > > API's Tap Water Conditioner (really just a dechlor and > > heavy metal > > > treatment... I'm not sure why they give it that fancy > > name) would be > > > the best bargain and a GOOD product for you, > > especially since you do > > > NOT have chloramine in your water. A 16 oz. bottle > > form > > > DrsFosterSmith.com and other places costs around $5.00 > > and a 16 oz. > > > bottle would treat nearly 10,000 gallons of chlorine > > treated water, > > > which if you do not overdose it all the time, would > > last you around > > > 2-3 years with weekly PWC's. > > > > > > Considering your shipping discount, you need to > > contact the > > > shipping/customer service dept's. at many of the fish > > supply websites > > > (DrsFosterSmith.com, BigAlsOnline.com, > > MarineDepot.com, > > > ThatFishPlace.com, etc. and find one of them that > > would use your FEDEX > > > shipping account. Then you could > > > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>> (Links > > to any articles referenced in > > > above reply are listed on the right side, > > alphabetically under Labels > > > and also under Archives by Year, Month) > > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On > > Behalf Of Amber Berglund > > > Sent: Thursday, July 02, 2009 1:24 AM > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > Subject: [AquaticLife] Lenny > > > > > > Okay Lenny what were those suggestions you gave me for > > water > > > conditioners that also take care of heavy metals? > > > I want to find someone online who's willing to ship it > > to me on my fed > > > ex account, heck maybe one of you guys might (no hints > > there, really, > > > LOL) > > > > > > Amber > > > > > > > > ------------------------------------ > > > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when > > replying, Thank You. > > ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> > > ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> > > PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is > > NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of > > the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new > > subject (was re: old subject)" <- > > <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. > > , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. > > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. > > > > If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of > > unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by > > clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the home page. > > > > Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:aquaticlife-digest%40yahoogroups.com> > > to receive the digest, which includes up to 25 posts at a > > time in a single email > > > > Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:aquaticlife-nomail%40yahoogroups.com> > > for the No E-Mail option where you will still be able to > > read messages on the group and post replies. > > > > Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:aquaticlife-normal%40yahoogroups.com> > > to receive individual e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > mailto:AquaticLife-fullfeatured@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife-fullfeatured%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 41621	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 7/2/2009
Subject: Live food suggestions please

Okay my severum seems mad when I feed him anything other than frozen foods, so I was going to try getting some live foods for him, are there any suggestions to start with that may appear tasty to him? I used to feed my oscars worms and such, but I want something to start with that should appear nice and tasty to him since he hasn't had anything worm like yet ;) LOL. I'd catch ants but they are hard to find up here, and I refuse to pour sugar on my floor in hopes of getting sugar ants, LOL. The LFS sells crickets but I'm not sure how small they are, I'd have to check, he still doesn't have a very big mouth, anything over a sinking pellet seems to be too big for him, although I saw him running around eyeing the baby platy's to see if they'd fit, perhaps they just don't taste good enough? I have at least 10 baby's running around in the 125 gallon tank with what looks to be more coming soon ;) Amber

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 41622	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 7/2/2009
Subject: Moved the Angel's into their own 55

My angel's appear a bit... lost so to speak in their new tank. They aren't fighting any, but they just swim around slowly looking for something, I'm not sure what they're looking for ;) They didn't have eggs in the 125 gallon so they shouldn't be looking for that. Perhaps there's just not enough plants to make them comfortable enough. The lighting is only fluorescent bulbs that come with the 55 gallon walmart kit so they're not really that bright, especially compared to the lighting in the 125 gallon. I also put duckweed in the tank to help diffuse the lighting in case they're just spooked from the move. I acclimated them over an hour before I moved them into the tank, the tank was testing fine (no nitrates/nitrites/ammonia, etc), the pH was 7.2 I think (I'd have to go find my notes, LOL). The pH raised with the added crushed coral in with the soil, didn't add any to the filter as it's a HOB and I wasn't sure how to do that, LOL. Amber

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 41623	From: sandi turner	Date: 7/2/2009
Subject: Re: Lenny

No you're not just no one else seems to have anything to say.:)   Sandi --- On Thu, 7/2/09, bill 1433 <warrenprint@...> wrote: From: bill 1433 <warrenprint@...> Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Lenny To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Date: Thursday, July 2, 2009, 12:36 PM Congratulations! I think you, Amber, and myself are the only 3 on the Internet Today???? Bill --- On Thu, 7/2/09, Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@gmail. com> wrote: > From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@gmail. com> > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Lenny > To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com > Date: Thursday, July 2, 2009, 12:16 PM > No.  API's Tap Water Conditioner > still works with Chloramine, it's just not > as efficient.  For Chlorine, the dosage is 1ml per > 20G.  For Chloramine, the > dosage is 1ml per 5G, so the 16 oz. would only treat around > 2,400G instead > of 9,600G with Chlorine.  Still, a bottle would last > you over six months for > $5.00 with Chloramine or two+ years with Chlorine. > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com > (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed > on the right > side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives > by Year, Month) > > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com > [mailto:AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com] > On > Behalf Of Amber Berglund > Sent: Thursday, July 02, 2009 9:47 AM > To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Lenny > > I may have to change this coming fall as they have stated > that they are > going to change how they do their water treatment, I think > they said they > were going to start adding something else not just > chlorine. > I'd have to go back through my emails ;) LOL I will have to > call those > stores directly, and then ask for a manager because all the > shipping clerks > have only been taught the one way of doing things and my > way is different ;) > LOL I'd rather find a smaller store that will ship, the > bigger the store the > more unreasonable they are at changing anything they do. > > Amber > > Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > > > > > > API's Tap Water Conditioner (really just a dechlor and > heavy metal > > treatment... I'm not sure why they give it that fancy > name) would be > > the best bargain and a GOOD product for you, > especially since you do > > NOT have chloramine in your water. A 16 oz. bottle > form > > DrsFosterSmith. com and other places costs around $5.00 > and a 16 oz. > > bottle would treat nearly 10,000 gallons of chlorine > treated water, > > which if you do not overdose it all the time, would > last you around > > 2-3 years with weekly PWC's. > > > > Considering your shipping discount, you need to > contact the > > shipping/customer service dept's. at many of the fish > supply websites > > (DrsFosterSmith. com, BigAlsOnline. com, > MarineDepot. com, > > ThatFishPlace. com, etc. and find one of them that > would use your FEDEX > > shipping account. Then you could > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com > > <http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com> (Links > to any articles referenced in > > above reply are listed on the right side, > alphabetically under Labels > > and also under Archives by Year, Month) > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com > > <mailto:AquaticLife %40yahoogroups. com> > > [mailto:AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com > > <mailto:AquaticLife %40yahoogroups. com>] On > Behalf Of Amber Berglund > > Sent: Thursday, July 02, 2009 1:24 AM > > To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com > <mailto:AquaticLife %40yahoogroups. com> > > Subject: [AquaticLife] Lenny > > > > Okay Lenny what were those suggestions you gave me for > water > > conditioners that also take care of heavy metals? > > I want to find someone online who's willing to ship it > to me on my fed > > ex account, heck maybe one of you guys might (no hints > there, really, > > LOL) > > > > Amber > > > > ------------ --------- --------- ------ > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when > replying, Thank You. > ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> > ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> > PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is > NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of > the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new > subject (was re: old subject)" <- > <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. > , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. > > If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of > unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by > clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the home page.  > > Or e-mail aquaticlife- digest@yahoogrou ps.com > to receive the digest, which includes up to 25 posts at a > time in a single email > > Or email aquaticlife- nomail@yahoogrou ps.com > for the No E-Mail option where you will still be able to > read messages on the group and post replies. > > Or email aquaticlife- normal@yahoogrou ps.com > to receive individual e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links > > >     mailto:AquaticLife- fullfeatured@ yahoogroups. com > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 41624	From: bill 1433	Date: 7/2/2009
Subject: Re: Lenny

Remarkable!!!! bill --- On Thu, 7/2/09, sandi turner <skwirrley2@...> wrote: > From: sandi turner <skwirrley2@...> > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Lenny > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Date: Thursday, July 2, 2009, 1:07 PM > No you're not just no one else seems > to have anything to say.:) >   > Sandi > > --- On Thu, 7/2/09, bill 1433 <warrenprint@...> > wrote: > > > From: bill 1433 <warrenprint@...> > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Lenny > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Date: Thursday, July 2, 2009, 12:36 PM > > > > > > > > > > Congratulations! > > I think you, Amber, and myself are the only 3 on the > Internet Today???? > > Bill > > --- On Thu, 7/2/09, Lenny V. aka GoldLenny > <GoldLenny@gmail. com> wrote: > > > From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@gmail. > com> > > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Lenny > > To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com > > Date: Thursday, July 2, 2009, 12:16 PM > > No.  API's Tap Water Conditioner > > still works with Chloramine, it's just not > > as efficient.  For Chlorine, the dosage is 1ml per > > 20G.  For Chloramine, the > > dosage is 1ml per 5G, so the 16 oz. would only treat > around > > 2,400G instead > > of 9,600G with Chlorine.  Still, a bottle would last > > you over six months for > > $5.00 with Chloramine or two+ years with Chlorine. > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com > > (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are > listed > > on the right > > side, alphabetically under Labels and also under > Archives > > by Year, Month) > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com > > [mailto:AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com] > > On > > Behalf Of Amber Berglund > > Sent: Thursday, July 02, 2009 9:47 AM > > To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Lenny > > > > I may have to change this coming fall as they have > stated > > that they are > > going to change how they do their water treatment, I > think > > they said they > > were going to start adding something else not just > > chlorine. > > I'd have to go back through my emails ;) LOL I will > have to > > call those > > stores directly, and then ask for a manager because > all the > > shipping clerks > > have only been taught the one way of doing things and > my > > way is different ;) > > LOL I'd rather find a smaller store that will ship, > the > > bigger the store the > > more unreasonable they are at changing anything they > do. > > > > Amber > > > > Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > > > > > > > > > API's Tap Water Conditioner (really just a > dechlor and > > heavy metal > > > treatment... I'm not sure why they give it that > fancy > > name) would be > > > the best bargain and a GOOD product for you, > > especially since you do > > > NOT have chloramine in your water. A 16 oz. > bottle > > form > > > DrsFosterSmith. com and other places costs around > $5.00 > > and a 16 oz. > > > bottle would treat nearly 10,000 gallons of > chlorine > > treated water, > > > which if you do not overdose it all the time, > would > > last you around > > > 2-3 years with weekly PWC's. > > > > > > Considering your shipping discount, you need to > > contact the > > > shipping/customer service dept's. at many of the > fish > > supply websites > > > (DrsFosterSmith. com, BigAlsOnline. com, > > MarineDepot. com, > > > ThatFishPlace. com, etc. and find one of them > that > > would use your FEDEX > > > shipping account. Then you could > > > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com > > > <http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com> (Links > > to any articles referenced in > > > above reply are listed on the right side, > > alphabetically under Labels > > > and also under Archives by Year, Month) > > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > From: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com > > > <mailto:AquaticLife %40yahoogroups. com> > > > [mailto:AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com > > > <mailto:AquaticLife %40yahoogroups. com>] > On > > Behalf Of Amber Berglund > > > Sent: Thursday, July 02, 2009 1:24 AM > > > To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com > > <mailto:AquaticLife %40yahoogroups. com> > > > Subject: [AquaticLife] Lenny > > > > > > Okay Lenny what were those suggestions you gave > me for > > water > > > conditioners that also take care of heavy > metals? > > > I want to find someone online who's willing to > ship it > > to me on my fed > > > ex account, heck maybe one of you guys might (no > hints > > there, really, > > > LOL) > > > > > > Amber > > > > > > > > ------------ --------- --------- ------ > > > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when > > replying, Thank You. > > > ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> > > ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> > > PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that > is > > NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC > of > > the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> > i.e. "new > > subject (was re: old subject)" <- > > > <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. > > , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. > > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. > > > > If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead > of > > unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by > > clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the home page.  > > > > Or e-mail aquaticlife- digest@yahoogrou ps.com > > to receive the digest, which includes up to 25 posts > at a > > time in a single email > > > > Or email aquaticlife- nomail@yahoogrou ps.com > > for the No E-Mail option where you will still be able > to > > read messages on the group and post replies. > > > > Or email aquaticlife- normal@yahoogrou ps.com > > to receive individual e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > >     mailto:AquaticLife- fullfeatured@ yahoogroups. > com > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >       > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > ------------------------------------ > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when > replying, Thank You. > ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> > ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> > PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is > NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of > the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new > subject (was re: old subject)" <- > <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. > , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. > > If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of > unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by > clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the home page.  > > Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com > to receive the digest, which includes up to 25 posts at a > time in a single email > > Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com > for the No E-Mail option where you will still be able to > read messages on the group and post replies. > > Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com > to receive individual e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links > > >     mailto:AquaticLife-fullfeatured@yahoogroups.com > > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 41625	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 7/2/2009
Subject: Re: Lenny

The Summer months always slows down in forums. I think the kids are dominating the computers at home so the parents can't goof off on them as much. LOL I'm sure the "Game" forums, music download sites, etc., are VERY BUSY right now. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of bill 1433 Sent: Thursday, July 02, 2009 12:31 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Lenny Remarkable!!!! bill --- On Thu, 7/2/09, sandi turner <skwirrley2@...> wrote: > From: sandi turner <skwirrley2@...> > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Lenny > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Date: Thursday, July 2, 2009, 1:07 PM > No you're not just no one else seems > to have anything to say.:) >   > Sandi > > --- On Thu, 7/2/09, bill 1433 <warrenprint@...> > wrote: > > > From: bill 1433 <warrenprint@...> > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Lenny > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Date: Thursday, July 2, 2009, 12:36 PM > > > > > > > > > > Congratulations! > > I think you, Amber, and myself are the only 3 on the Internet > Today???? > > Bill > > --- On Thu, 7/2/09, Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@gmail. com> > wrote: > > > From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@gmail. > com> > > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Lenny > > To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com > > Date: Thursday, July 2, 2009, 12:16 PM No.  API's Tap Water > > Conditioner still works with Chloramine, it's just not as efficient.  > > For Chlorine, the dosage is 1ml per 20G.  For Chloramine, the dosage > > is 1ml per 5G, so the 16 oz. would only treat > around > > 2,400G instead > > of 9,600G with Chlorine.  Still, a bottle would last you over six > > months for $5.00 with Chloramine or two+ years with Chlorine. > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com (Links to any articles > > referenced in above reply are > listed > > on the right > > side, alphabetically under Labels and also under > Archives > > by Year, Month) > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com > > [mailto:AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com] On Behalf Of Amber Berglund > > Sent: Thursday, July 02, 2009 9:47 AM > > To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Lenny > > > > I may have to change this coming fall as they have > stated > > that they are > > going to change how they do their water treatment, I > think > > they said they > > were going to start adding something else not just chlorine. > > I'd have to go back through my emails ;) LOL I will > have to > > call those > > stores directly, and then ask for a manager because > all the > > shipping clerks > > have only been taught the one way of doing things and > my > > way is different ;) > > LOL I'd rather find a smaller store that will ship, > the > > bigger the store the > > more unreasonable they are at changing anything they > do. > > > > Amber > > > > Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > > > > > > > > > API's Tap Water Conditioner (really just a > dechlor and > > heavy metal > > > treatment... I'm not sure why they give it that > fancy > > name) would be > > > the best bargain and a GOOD product for you, > > especially since you do > > > NOT have chloramine in your water. A 16 oz. > bottle > > form > > > DrsFosterSmith. com and other places costs around > $5.00 > > and a 16 oz. > > > bottle would treat nearly 10,000 gallons of > chlorine > > treated water, > > > which if you do not overdose it all the time, > would > > last you around > > > 2-3 years with weekly PWC's. > > > > > > Considering your shipping discount, you need to > > contact the > > > shipping/customer service dept's. at many of the > fish > > supply websites > > > (DrsFosterSmith. com, BigAlsOnline. com, > > MarineDepot. com, > > > ThatFishPlace. com, etc. and find one of them > that > > would use your FEDEX > > > shipping account. Then you could > > > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com <http://GoldLenny. > > > blogspot. com> (Links > > to any articles referenced in > > > above reply are listed on the right side, > > alphabetically under Labels > > > and also under Archives by Year, Month) > > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > From: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com <mailto:AquaticLife > > > %40yahoogroups. com> [mailto:AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com > > > <mailto:AquaticLife %40yahoogroups. com>] > On > > Behalf Of Amber Berglund > > > Sent: Thursday, July 02, 2009 1:24 AM > > > To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com > > <mailto:AquaticLife %40yahoogroups. com> > > > Subject: [AquaticLife] Lenny > > > > > > Okay Lenny what were those suggestions you gave > me for > > water > > > conditioners that also take care of heavy > metals? > > > I want to find someone online who's willing to > ship it > > to me on my fed > > > ex account, heck maybe one of you guys might (no > hints > > there, really, > > > LOL) > > > > > > Amber

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 41626	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 7/2/2009
Subject: Re: Moved the Angel's into their own 55

I think fish are always a little docile when moved to a new tank. I'd rather see them being docile than acting all sporadic, darting, flashing, etc. As long as they're not gasping at the surface or sitting on the bottom, they are probably OK... just checking things out and wondering what happened to all the other fish. So, even after a week, the Walstad substrate didn't leach any measureable ammonia/nitrite/nitrate into the water column? Or did you have to do a BIG PWC? Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Amber Berglund Sent: Thursday, July 02, 2009 12:00 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Moved the Angel's into their own 55 My angel's appear a bit... lost so to speak in their new tank. They aren't fighting any, but they just swim around slowly looking for something, I'm not sure what they're looking for ;) They didn't have eggs in the 125 gallon so they shouldn't be looking for that. Perhaps there's just not enough plants to make them comfortable enough. The lighting is only fluorescent bulbs that come with the 55 gallon walmart kit so they're not really that bright, especially compared to the lighting in the 125 gallon. I also put duckweed in the tank to help diffuse the lighting in case they're just spooked from the move. I acclimated them over an hour before I moved them into the tank, the tank was testing fine (no nitrates/nitrites/ammonia, etc), the pH was 7.2 I think (I'd have to go find my notes, LOL). The pH raised with the added crushed coral in with the soil, didn't add any to the filter as it's a HOB and I wasn't sure how to do that, LOL. Amber

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 41627	From: pam andress	Date: 7/2/2009
Subject: Re: Lenny

Try http://kensfish.com/index.html Ken may ship it the way you want. Pam To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com From: amber@... Date: Thu, 2 Jul 2009 06:46:41 -0800 Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Lenny I may have to change this coming fall as they have stated that they are going to change how they do their water treatment, I think they said they were going to start adding something else not just chlorine. I'd have to go back through my emails ;) LOL I will have to call those stores directly, and then ask for a manager because all the shipping clerks have only been taught the one way of doing things and my way is different ;) LOL I'd rather find a smaller store that will ship, the bigger the store the more unreasonable they are at changing anything they do. Amber Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > > > API's Tap Water Conditioner (really just a dechlor and heavy metal > treatment... I'm not sure why they give it that fancy name) would be the > best bargain and a GOOD product for you, especially since you do NOT have > chloramine in your water. A 16 oz. bottle form DrsFosterSmith.com and > other > places costs around $5.00 and a 16 oz. bottle would treat nearly 10,000 > gallons of chlorine treated water, which if you do not overdose it all the > time, would last you around 2-3 years with weekly PWC's. > > Considering your shipping discount, you need to contact the > shipping/customer service dept's. at many of the fish supply websites > (DrsFosterSmith.com, BigAlsOnline.com, MarineDepot.com, ThatFishPlace.com, > etc. and find one of them that would use your FEDEX shipping account. Then > you could > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right > side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) > > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On > Behalf Of Amber Berglund > Sent: Thursday, July 02, 2009 1:24 AM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Subject: [AquaticLife] Lenny > > Okay Lenny what were those suggestions you gave me for water conditioners > that also take care of heavy metals? > I want to find someone online who's willing to ship it to me on my fed ex > account, heck maybe one of you guys might (no hints there, really, LOL) > > Amber > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 41628	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 7/2/2009
Subject: Black beard algae

Okay so I have a fake silk plant that has black beard algae all over it. I have tried washing it in the dishwasher twice (two different settings and placements), and now it's soaking in a bowl of bleach. How do I get this stuff off? It's like glue I swear. Amber

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 41629	From: Menagerie_Manager	Date: 7/2/2009
Subject: Re: Black beard algae

Newbie, here, so take with grain of salt (and probably a chuckle), but have you considered a disposable razor? DebR and the Three Goldfish (CB, Lucille, and Raven) (and now 10 White Cloud minnows in quarantine - b-day present from hubby) ----- Original Message ----- From: "Amber Berglund" <amber@...> To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Thursday, July 02, 2009 5:48 PM Subject: [AquaticLife] Black beard algae Okay so I have a fake silk plant that has black beard algae all over it. I have tried washing it in the dishwasher twice (two different settings and placements), and now it's soaking in a bowl of bleach. How do I get this stuff off? It's like glue I swear. Amber ------------------------------------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the home page. Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com to receive the digest, which includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com for the No E-Mail option where you will still be able to read messages on the group and post replies. Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com to receive individual e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 41630	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 7/2/2009
Subject: Re: Black beard algae

Toothbrush? And then you have an excuse for that piece of spinach stuck between your teeth. LOL Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Amber Berglund Sent: Thursday, July 02, 2009 4:48 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Black beard algae Okay so I have a fake silk plant that has black beard algae all over it. I have tried washing it in the dishwasher twice (two different settings and placements), and now it's soaking in a bowl of bleach. How do I get this stuff off? It's like glue I swear. Amber

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 41631	From: Gilbert	Date: 7/2/2009
Subject: Re: Black Beard Algae

Found another fish that is reported to be a consumer of this algae it's the American Flagfish which is a member of the Cyprinodontidae family and looks like a molly, hmmmm, I wonder if Mollies would help you out too? Look for it under names like the "Florida Flagfish" or the Jamaican Killifish (Cubanichthys pengelleyi). Hope this helps. :)

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 41632	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 7/2/2009
Subject: Re: Black Beard Algae

_Jordanella floridae_, American flagfish is nasty with conspecifics, and that may spill over to others in the tank. It may eat algae, but its main diet is with meaty animals. \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Gilbert Sent: Thursday, July 02, 2009 7:40 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] RE: Black Beard Algae Found another fish that is reported to be a consumer of this algae it's the American Flagfish which is a member of the Cyprinodontidae family and looks like a molly, hmmmm, I wonder if Mollies would help you out too? Look for it under names like the "Florida Flagfish" or the Jamaican Killifish (Cubanichthys pengelleyi). Hope this helps. :)

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 41633	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 7/2/2009
Subject: Re: Black beard algae

Heh, good one there Deb ;) Never thought of shaving my plants, LOL. Amber Menagerie_Manager wrote: > > > Newbie, here, so take with grain of salt (and probably a chuckle), but > have you considered a disposable razor? > > DebR and the Three Goldfish > (CB, Lucille, and Raven) > (and now 10 White Cloud minnows in quarantine - b-day present from hubby) > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Amber Berglund" <amber@... > <mailto:amber%40rose-fields.com>> > To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>> > Sent: Thursday, July 02, 2009 5:48 PM > Subject: [AquaticLife] Black beard algae > > Okay so I have a fake silk plant that has black beard algae all over it. > I have tried washing it in the dishwasher twice (two different settings > and placements), and now it's soaking in a bowl of bleach. How do I get > this stuff off? It's like glue I swear. > > Amber > > ------------------------------------ > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. > ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> > PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT > important to > the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the > SUBJECT > LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- > <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. > > If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of unsubscribing, > you > can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My Membership" on > the > home page. > > Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:aquaticlife-digest%40yahoogroups.com> to receive the digest, > which > includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email > > Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:aquaticlife-nomail%40yahoogroups.com> for the No E-Mail option > where > you will still be able to read messages on the group and post replies. > > Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:aquaticlife-normal%40yahoogroups.com> to receive individual > e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 41634	From: footprint145	Date: 7/2/2009
Subject: Bolivian Ram

Hi aquarium enthusiast! I am new to the group, but not to the hobby. Started many moons ago w/ typical comm. tank (guppies, mollies, etc.) I just started a 10G tank and was always interested in the Dwarf Cich. group - particularly RAMS!! I acquired 2 Bol.Rams and hoped to have sexed pair. NO luck! Anyway, the one dominant fish is constantly harassing the other to the point the harassed fish is getting little to eat. Should I be concerned, in such a small tank, or do you think time will weary the KING! Thanks, any info would be great! Allen P.S. I now have them bout 3 weeks

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 41635	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 7/2/2009
Subject: Re: Black Beard Algae

I'm not worried about it on the living plants as I just trim off the leaves, I'm just trying to get the darn stuff to come off of my ornaments, I have to scrape it off and it's not coming off the silk plants at all, but bleaching it turned it a pale green, LOL. Maybe soaking it in something else? Acid comes to mind ;) LOL Amber Steve Szabo wrote: > > > _Jordanella floridae_, American flagfish is nasty with conspecifics, and > that may spill over to others in the tank. It may eat algae, but its > main diet is with meaty animals. > > \\Steve// > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] > On Behalf Of Gilbert > Sent: Thursday, July 02, 2009 7:40 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Subject: [AquaticLife] RE: Black Beard Algae > > Found another fish that is reported to be a consumer of this algae it's > the American Flagfish which is a member of the Cyprinodontidae family > and looks like a molly, hmmmm, I wonder if Mollies would help you out > too? Look for it under names like the "Florida Flagfish" or the Jamaican > Killifish (Cubanichthys pengelleyi). Hope this helps. :) > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 41636	From: Gilbert	Date: 7/2/2009
Subject: Re: Black Beard Algae

I did a little surfing on the subject and found that the Chinese Algae eater (Siamensis) is the only known fish that will eat this type of algae. Hey Amber, may be time for another visit to the LFS since you have a legitimate reason to buy more fish LOL :) How long are the lights on? You may want to consider allowing them on for 8-10 hours. I had the same problem before with one of my tanks and I tried bleach and scrubbing them clean but, it always came back until I got the Algae eaters. Hey Lenny, I guess there is some truth out there if we test it out and search hard enough. I still take the internet with a grain of salt (ha ha) and use my books and experience to verify and check, LOL :). Gilbert, in Hawai'i just kicking back and enjoying life.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 41637	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 7/2/2009
Subject: Any safe tank mates for the Angel's?

Okay is there any safe algae eater that I could put in with my 2 mated Angel's in their 55 gallon? Or maybe a bottom feeder? I dunno... Bigger snails maybe? Amber

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 41638	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 7/2/2009
Subject: Re: Amber, need to know? Rams and incoming fish

Okay so who wants to know what my LFS is selling their German Blue rams for? They are the same size as the ones I received (about 3/4 of an inch, maybe 1/2 an inch). I bought mine for 7/each. Got the bleeding hearts for 3 each, and the peppered corys for 3 each. They are selling them for 15.95... I told the worker that there was no way I was going to pay that price considering how much I just got mine for, I don't think I'll be buying fish from my LFS much at all. Not only did I get them a day earlier than I would have if I had gone out to my LFS, but they seem nice and healthy AND the shipper sexed them for me. They also sexed all the bleeding heart tetras that I got, I didn't ask them to sex the cory's LOL. Oh and speaking of the cory's are starting to come out and play more, good to see them out, was a little worried at first but they seem to be settling into the new tank. I definitely want to do another order from them some day in the future, hopefully not replacing any fish, but you never know ;) So far all the new fish are doing great, nice and active and eating well. The bleeding hearts are schooling too. Amber Amber Berglund wrote: > > > Best part of my discount is that it even works for international orders, > I did a price check on getting a box from bangkok and the price was less > than $40 for international priority, only thing is that it takes 3-5 > days depending on customs ;) LOL > I almost bought those purple guppy's from thialand except for the fact > that it takes so long for them to get there, LOL. > > Amber > > bill 1433 wrote: > > > > > > > > Thanks Amber! > > > > I forgot the FedEx discount to you! I thought that was l-o-w! > > > > Thanks also for the seller info will check. > > > > Bill > > > > --- On Thu, 7/2/09, Amber Berglund <amber@... > <mailto:amber%40rose-fields.com> > > <mailto:amber%40rose-fields.com>> wrote: > > > > > From: Amber Berglund <amber@... > <mailto:amber%40rose-fields.com> > > <mailto:amber%40rose-fields.com>> > > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Amber, need to know? Rams and incoming fish > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > Date: Thursday, July 2, 2009, 10:48 AM > > > The seller is wetspotcx on aquabid, > > > contact Grey directly and I'm sure > > > he would be more than willing to work with you. They were > > > very > > > reasonable with all my requests, such as sexing the fish > > > before sending > > > them so I knew I got 3 pairs of rams not 6 males ;) LOL > > > My shipping is discounted because I work for fed ex, most > > > shipping for > > > the Lower US is around 50 for overnight shipping depending > > > on your zip > > > code, just make it a big order and it'll be worth it. > > > > > > Amber > > > > > > bill 1433 wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I didn't ask Amber???? > > > > > > > > >From Where? From Whom? > > > > > > > > Need to ask now---------------I might have to do the > > > same thing! > > > > Details of sale? You liked the seller? > > > Easy to work with? > > > > Time? From order to delivery? Cost of > > > shipping was reasonable I > > > > think to what I've seen so far. Was it right to > > > your door? > > > > > > > > Bill > > > > > > > > --- On Wed, 7/1/09, Amber Berglund <amber@... > <mailto:amber%40rose-fields.com> > > <mailto:amber%40rose-fields.com> > > > > > > > <mailto:amber%40rose-fields.com>> wrote: > > > > > > > > From: Amber Berglund <amber@... > <mailto:amber%40rose-fields.com> > > <mailto:amber%40rose-fields.com> > > > > > > > <mailto:amber%40rose-fields.com>> > > > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Rams and incoming fish > > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > Date: Wednesday, July 1, 2009, 10:05 PM > > > > > > > > Oh, and just so I can make everyone jealous, it cost > > > me $19 dollars for > > > > overnight shipping here to Alaska for my 6 lbs of fish > > > ;) > > > > *runs and hides now* > > > > I bet if I do the math it'll be cheaper than it would > > > have been if I > > > > shopped from my LFS, how sad is that? > > > > 78+19=$97 for the fish > > > > 5 peppered cory's, sell for about 6-7 at my LFS > > > > 6 bleeding heart tetras, sell for about 7 at my LFS > > > > 6 german blue ram's, sell for over 10 at my LFS > > > > I think I'm going to boycot the LFS ;) > > > > > > > > Amber > > > > > > > > Amber Berglund wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > The Rams seemed to be the healthiest of all the > > > fish, they are active > > > > > and already searching for food. The bleeding > > > hearts seemed a bit shaken > > > > > up, but they're eating now too. The cory's are > > > hiding, I think they > > > > > didn't like their trip ;) > > > > > I love the rams, tiny little guys must be just > > > barely sexually mature, > > > > > it's cute to watch them doing their pairing up > > > dances. > > > > > > > > > > Amber > > > > > > > > > > Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I'd put them in the 10G and just do 2X or > > > 3X/week PWC's... or more > > > > > > often if > > > > > > you can find the time. > > > > > > > > > > > > Normally, one shouldn't keep more than ten > > > 1" fish (or five 2" fish or > > > > > > three > > > > > > 3" fish) in a 10G tank but that is for long > > > term purposes. For the > > > > > > purposes > > > > > > of Q-tanks and H-tanks, these stocking > > > guidelines can be relaxed as > > > > > > long as > > > > > > the fish keeper does proper maintenance on > > > the tank during their stay. > > > > > > > > > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > > > > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>> > > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>>> > > > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>> > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>>>> > > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>> > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>>> > > > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>> > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>>>>> > > > > > > (Links to any articles referenced in above > > > reply are listed on the > > > > right > > > > > > side, alphabetically under Labels and also > > > under Archives by Year, > > > > > Month) > > > > > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > > > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On > > > > > > Behalf Of Amber Berglund > > > > > > Sent: Wednesday, July 01, 2009 4:12 PM > > > > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Rams and incoming > > > fish > > > > > > > > > > > > Aww, the bleeding hearts are tiny! LOL, my > > > males are going to be in > > > > > heaven > > > > > > with their 6 little females ;) LOL They all > > > look small, less than an > > > > > > inch in > > > > > > size. > > > > > > > > > > > > Amber > > > > > > > > > > > > Amber Berglund wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I got 16 fish, they should all be > > > small, lemme open the box and look > > > > > > > to see how many made it ;) LOL > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Amber > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > How many fish did you get in and > > > how big? The problem with > > > > using the > > > > > > > > 55G newly set up Walstad tank as a > > > Q-tank is that if something > > > > > > > > should go > > > > > > > wrong > > > > > > > > and you have to treat the fish, > > > you may end up having to break > > > > down > > > > > > > > that tank afterwards. A Q-tank is > > > best kept very simple so that it > > > > > > > > can be sterilized afterwards. Run > > > to Wal-Mart and buy one or more > > > > > > > > new 10G tanks or use the Sterilite > > > clear plastic tubs, > > > > possibly only > > > > > > > > one that is large enough for all > > > the fish, but I wouldn't use the > > > > > > > > 55G newly setup Walstad > > > > > > > substrate > > > > > > > > tank. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > > > > > > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>> > > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>>> > > > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>> > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>>>> > > > > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > 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<http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>>>> > > > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>> > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>>> > > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>> > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>>>>>> > > > > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>> > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>>> > > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>> > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>>>> > > > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>> > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>>> > > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>> > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>>>>> > > > > > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>>> > > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>> > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>>>> > > > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>> > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>>> > > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>> > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>>>>>>> > > > > > > > > (Links to any articles referenced > > > in above reply are listed on the > > > > > > > > right side, alphabetically under > > > Labels and also under Archives by > > > > > > > > Year, > > > > > > > Month) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > > > > > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On Behalf Of > > > Amber > > > > Berglund > > > > > > > > Sent: Wednesday, July 01, 2009 > > > 1:23 PM > > > > > > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > > Subject: [AquaticLife] Rams and > > > incoming fish > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I have too many fish to put into a > > > 10 gallon for quarantine as I > > > > > > > > made a large fish order should I > > > go ahead and use the 55 > > > > gallon that > > > > > > > > I set up this weekend as a walstad > > > tank? The cycled media is still > > > > > > > > in another > > > > > > > filter and > > > > > > > > the tank is only lightly planted > > > until my plant order arrives this > > > > > > > week. I > > > > > > > > could go see what the lfs has left > > > in stock but it was pretty bare > > > > > > > > for plants last weekend because > > > they didn't put in a plant order. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I think I'm going to stick to > > > aquabid for my fish and plants from > > > > > > > now on. > > > > > > > > For the first time I will know > > > what I am planting in the tank lol. > > > > > > > > Can't wait for my 3 pairs of > > > german blue rams. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Oh and bill the blue ones with > > > pink belly's are the females. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Amber > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ------------------------------------ > > > > > > > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when > > > replying, Thank You. > > > > > > > ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> > > > ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> > > > > PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that > > > is NOT > > > > important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of > > > the original message > > > > MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was > > > re: old subject)" <- > > > > > > > <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. > > > , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. > > > > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. > > > > > > > > If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead > > > of unsubscribing, > > > > you can change your delivery option by clicking on > > > "Edit My > > > > Membership" on the home page. > > > > > > > > Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:aquaticlife-digest%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:aquaticlife-digest%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > <mailto:aquaticlife-digest%40yahoogroups.com> to > > > receive the digest, > > > > which includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single > > > email > > > > > > > > Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:aquaticlife-nomail%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:aquaticlife-nomail%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > <mailto:aquaticlife-nomail%40yahoogroups.com> > > > for the No E-Mail option > > > > where you will still be able to read messages on the > > > group and post > > > > replies. > > > > > > > > Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:aquaticlife-normal%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:aquaticlife-normal%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > <mailto:aquaticlife-normal%40yahoogroups.com> to > > > receive individual > > > > e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ------------------------------------ > > > > > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when > > > replying, Thank You. > > > ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> > > > ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> > > > PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is > > > NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of > > > the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new > > > subject (was re: old subject)" <- > > > <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. > > > , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. > > > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. > > > > > > If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of > > > unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by > > > clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the home page. > > > > > > Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:aquaticlife-digest%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:aquaticlife-digest%40yahoogroups.com> > > > to receive the digest, which includes up to 25 posts at a > > > time in a single email > > > > > > Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:aquaticlife-nomail%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:aquaticlife-nomail%40yahoogroups.com> > > > for the No E-Mail option where you will still be able to > > > read messages on the group and post replies. > > > > > > Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:aquaticlife-normal%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:aquaticlife-normal%40yahoogroups.com> > > > to receive individual e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > > > > mailto:AquaticLife-fullfeatured@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife-fullfeatured%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife-fullfeatured%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 41639	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 7/2/2009
Subject: Re: Black Beard Algae

They don't have the CAE's here in town, I would have to order them. Do Otto's eat this algae? I doubt it. I figured raising the KH, GH and pH would help get rid of it, as it prefers low pH water (6 or less apparently). Oh and the lights are on for 8 hours, it does get some afternoon sun but not for long (hour or less). Amber Gilbert wrote: > > > I did a little surfing on the subject and found that the Chinese Algae > eater (Siamensis) is the only known fish that will eat this type of > algae. Hey Amber, may be time for another visit to the LFS since you > have a legitimate reason to buy more fish LOL :) How long are the > lights on? You may want to consider allowing them on for 8-10 hours. I > had the same problem before with one of my tanks and I tried bleach > and scrubbing them clean but, it always came back until I got the > Algae eaters. Hey Lenny, I guess there is some truth out there if we > test it out and search hard enough. I still take the internet with a > grain of salt (ha ha) and use my books and experience to verify and > check, LOL :). Gilbert, in Hawai'i just kicking back and enjoying life. > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 41640	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 7/2/2009
Subject: Re: Live food suggestions please

Has the ground thawed up there yet? <g> Try some chopped earthworms. \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Amber Berglund Sent: Thursday, July 02, 2009 12:55 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Live food suggestions please Okay my severum seems mad when I feed him anything other than frozen foods, so I was going to try getting some live foods for him, are there any suggestions to start with that may appear tasty to him? I used to feed my oscars worms and such, but I want something to start with that should appear nice and tasty to him since he hasn't had anything worm like yet ;) LOL. I'd catch ants but they are hard to find up here, and I refuse to pour sugar on my floor in hopes of getting sugar ants, LOL. The LFS sells crickets but I'm not sure how small they are, I'd have to check, he still doesn't have a very big mouth, anything over a sinking pellet seems to be too big for him, although I saw him running around eyeing the baby platy's to see if they'd fit, perhaps they just don't taste good enough? I have at least 10 baby's running around in the 125 gallon tank with what looks to be more coming soon ;) Amber

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 41641	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 7/2/2009
Subject: Re: Bolivian Ram

Getting them some females will help a lot, also try rearranging the tank decorations so they feel like they're in a new home, or add a lot more hiding places and plants to the tank. They like heavily planted tanks. Amber footprint145 wrote: > > > Hi aquarium enthusiast! I am new to the group, but not to the hobby. > Started many moons ago w/ typical comm. tank (guppies, mollies, etc.) > I just started a 10G tank and was always interested in the Dwarf Cich. > group - particularly RAMS!! I acquired 2 Bol.Rams and hoped to have > sexed pair. NO luck! Anyway, the one dominant fish is constantly > harassing the other to the point the harassed fish is getting little > to eat. Should I be concerned, in such a small tank, or do you think > time will weary the KING! > > Thanks, any info would be great! > Allen > > P.S. I now have them bout 3 weeks > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 41642	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 7/3/2009
Subject: Re: Any safe tank mates for the Angel's?

A Pleco comes to mind. Preferably one of the dwarf species so it's not as much burden on the bioload. A Bristle Nosed or Clown Pleco both stay under 5". They are both "armored" catfish so they are at least designed to tolerate a little abuse and ward it off with their spines in their fins and the actual armored plating that covers their skin. Mongabay's profile has this for the SC section (Suggested Companions) for Angelfish: SC: Catfish (Armored, Pimelodids, Doradids, Loricarids), characins (Headstanders, hatchetfish, larger schooling tetras), cichlids (Angelfish, Discus, Waroo, Acaras, Ram, Eartheaters), gouramis, livebearers that can tolerate neutral water conditions. There are a couple of "armored suckermouth catfish" (aka algae eaters) that are called Clown Plecos. Here is one which only grows to around 3"... http://fish.mongabay.com/species/Peckoltia_pulcher.html If it is too small and can't deal with your Terrorist Angelfish, then you could always move it to another tank since it is small enough to fit most of your tanks. Here are the others that are called Clown Plecos and look very similar. 3.9" - http://www.planetcatfish.com/catelog/species.php?species_id=734 2.4" - http://www.planetcatfish.com/catelog/species.php?species_id=736 Of course, the Bristle Nosed grows closer to the 5" range and a couple of species from the Ancistrus Genus are commonly called Bristlenose Catfish or Bristle Nosed Plecos. The males get the actual bristles on their noses whereas the females look "normal". http://www.planetcatfish.com/catelog/species.php?species_id=48 http://www.planetcatfish.com/catelog/species.php?species_id=49 Since all of the "armored catfish" above stay hidden a lot, because they like to hang out in/under wood, rocks, etc., and because they are typically more active at night, they should not threaten the Angelfish as much. If the Angelfish do seem to be a problem when mating, you could always put a divider in the tank to give the dwarf pleco one third of the tank during these mating periods. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Amber Berglund Sent: Thursday, July 02, 2009 11:17 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Any safe tank mates for the Angel's? Okay is there any safe algae eater that I could put in with my 2 mated Angel's in their 55 gallon? Or maybe a bottom feeder? I dunno... Bigger snails maybe? Amber

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 41643	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 7/3/2009
Subject: Re: Bolivian Ram

These Rams http://www.aquatic-hobbyist.com/profiles/freshwater/cichlids/bram.html should grow to around 4" which kind of makes them not suitable for a 10G tank. Most profiles/care sheets recommend at least a 20G tank for this species. It's best to keep fish that stay under 3" in 10G tanks so this Ram is only a little over the limit but still, space becomes an issue as you are seeing. In a large enough tank, each male would be able to have it's own space and fighting would not be as much of an issue. If you and move some things around to put plants, decorations, etc., in the middle of the tank to kind of separate it, that might help for a while. Besides, these fish like lots of live plants anyhow and the live plants would also help with the bioload issue that will develop as the fish grow to full size. Remember to keep up with weekly (or more often) 25% PWC's to dilute/reduce the level of hormones in the water which might also temper some of the aggression. On a side note, here is a 10G Stocking Guideline article (mainly authored by Hailey... but I helped. LOL) which will give you other ideas for your 10G in the event these two guys don't work out. http://goldlenny.blogspot.com/2007/03/haileys-10-gallon-tank-stocking-list.h tml Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Amber Berglund Sent: Thursday, July 02, 2009 10:32 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Bolivian Ram Getting them some females will help a lot, also try rearranging the tank decorations so they feel like they're in a new home, or add a lot more hiding places and plants to the tank. They like heavily planted tanks. Amber footprint145 wrote: > > > Hi aquarium enthusiast! I am new to the group, but not to the hobby. > Started many moons ago w/ typical comm. tank (guppies, mollies, etc.) > I just started a 10G tank and was always interested in the Dwarf Cich. > group - particularly RAMS!! I acquired 2 Bol.Rams and hoped to have > sexed pair. NO luck! Anyway, the one dominant fish is constantly > harassing the other to the point the harassed fish is getting little > to eat. Should I be concerned, in such a small tank, or do you think > time will weary the KING! > > Thanks, any info would be great! > Allen > > P.S. I now have them bout 3 weeks

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 41644	From: bill 1433	Date: 7/3/2009
Subject: Re: Live food suggestions please

Hi \\Steve// ! Can you refresh my memory here? A long time ago I did this for my Oscars but I did something to them first to avoid contamination to the aquarium water? Let the worms in plain water for an hour or so?  Can't remember? Around here lately kind of blessed, lots of rain, lots of worms! Bill --- On Thu, 7/2/09, Steve Szabo <steve@...> wrote: > From: Steve Szabo <steve@...> > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Live food suggestions please > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Date: Thursday, July 2, 2009, 10:04 PM > Has the ground thawed up there yet? > <g> Try some chopped earthworms. > > \\Steve// > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] > On Behalf Of Amber Berglund > Sent: Thursday, July 02, 2009 12:55 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Subject: [AquaticLife] Live food suggestions please > > Okay my severum seems mad when I feed him anything other > than frozen > foods, so I was going to try getting some live foods for > him, are there > any suggestions to start with that may appear tasty to > him? > I used to feed my oscars worms and such, but I want > something to start > with that should appear nice and tasty to him since he > hasn't had > anything worm like yet ;) LOL. > I'd catch ants but they are hard to find up here, and I > refuse to pour > sugar on my floor in hopes of getting sugar ants, LOL. > The LFS sells crickets but I'm not sure how small they are, > I'd have to > check, he still doesn't have a very big mouth, anything > over a sinking > pellet seems to be too big for him, although I saw him > running around > eyeing the baby platy's to see if they'd fit, perhaps they > just don't > taste good enough? I have at least 10 baby's running around > in the 125 > gallon tank with what looks to be more coming soon ;) > > Amber > > > > ------------------------------------ > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when > replying, Thank You. > ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> > ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> > PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is > NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of > the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new > subject (was re: old subject)" <- > <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. > , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. > > If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of > unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by > clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the home page.  > > Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com > to receive the digest, which includes up to 25 posts at a > time in a single email > > Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com > for the No E-Mail option where you will still be able to > read messages on the group and post replies. > > Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com > to receive individual e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links > > >     mailto:AquaticLife-fullfeatured@yahoogroups.com > > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 41645	From: bill 1433	Date: 7/3/2009
Subject: Re: Amber, need to know? Rams and incoming fish

Long Distance Shopping?   Hi Amber,   Check out your seller, too far for me but found another that is not.  To me it just started becoming a money case.  If your paying high buck at the LPS BUT the fish are of poor quality and "your stuck with what you get" type of thing, its time to put your show on the road!   Bill --- On Fri, 7/3/09, Amber Berglund <amber@...> wrote: > From: Amber Berglund <amber@...> > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Amber, need to know? Rams and incoming fish > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Date: Friday, July 3, 2009, 12:07 AM > Okay so who wants to know what my LFS > is selling their German Blue rams > for? They are the same size as the ones I received (about > 3/4 of an > inch, maybe 1/2 an inch). I bought mine for 7/each. Got the > bleeding > hearts for 3 each, and the peppered corys for 3 each. > They are selling them for 15.95... I told the worker that > there was no > way I was going to pay that price considering how much I > just got mine > for, I don't think I'll be buying fish from my LFS much at > all. Not only > did I get them a day earlier than I would have if I had > gone out to my > LFS, but they seem nice and healthy AND the shipper sexed > them for me. > They also sexed all the bleeding heart tetras that I got, I > didn't ask > them to sex the cory's LOL. > Oh and speaking of the cory's are starting to come out and > play more, > good to see them out, was a little worried at first but > they seem to be > settling into the new tank. > I definitely want to do another order from them some day in > the future, > hopefully not replacing any fish, but you never know ;) > So far all the new fish are doing great, nice and active > and eating > well. The bleeding hearts are schooling too. > > Amber > > Amber Berglund wrote: > > > > > > Best part of my discount is that it even works for > international orders, > > I did a price check on getting a box from bangkok and > the price was less > > than $40 for international priority, only thing is > that it takes 3-5 > > days depending on customs ;) LOL > > I almost bought those purple guppy's from thialand > except for the fact > > that it takes so long for them to get there, LOL. > > > > Amber > > > > bill 1433 wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > Thanks Amber! > > > > > > I forgot the FedEx discount to you! I thought > that was l-o-w! > > > > > > Thanks also for the seller info will check. > > > > > > Bill > > > > > > --- On Thu, 7/2/09, Amber Berglund <amber@... > > > <mailto:amber%40rose-fields.com> > > > <mailto:amber%40rose-fields.com>> > wrote: > > > > > > > From: Amber Berglund <amber@... > > > <mailto:amber%40rose-fields.com> > > > <mailto:amber%40rose-fields.com>> > > > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Amber, need to > know? Rams and incoming fish > > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > Date: Thursday, July 2, 2009, 10:48 AM > > > > The seller is wetspotcx on aquabid, > > > > contact Grey directly and I'm sure > > > > he would be more than willing to work with > you. They were > > > > very > > > > reasonable with all my requests, such as > sexing the fish > > > > before sending > > > > them so I knew I got 3 pairs of rams not 6 > males ;) LOL > > > > My shipping is discounted because I work for > fed ex, most > > > > shipping for > > > > the Lower US is around 50 for overnight > shipping depending > > > > on your zip > > > > code, just make it a big order and it'll be > worth it. > > > > > > > > Amber > > > > > > > > bill 1433 wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I didn't ask Amber???? > > > > > > > > > > >From Where? From Whom? > > > > > > > > > > Need to ask now---------------I might > have to do the > > > > same thing! > > > > > Details of sale? You liked the seller? > > > > Easy to work with? > > > > > Time? From order to delivery? Cost of > > > > shipping was reasonable I > > > > > think to what I've seen so far. Was it > right to > > > > your door? > > > > > > > > > > Bill > > > > > > > > > > --- On Wed, 7/1/09, Amber Berglund > <amber@... > > > <mailto:amber%40rose-fields.com> > > > <mailto:amber%40rose-fields.com> > > > > > > > > > > <mailto:amber%40rose-fields.com>> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > From: Amber Berglund <amber@... > > > <mailto:amber%40rose-fields.com> > > > <mailto:amber%40rose-fields.com> > > > > > > > > > > <mailto:amber%40rose-fields.com>> > > > > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Rams and > incoming fish > > > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > Date: Wednesday, July 1, 2009, 10:05 > PM > > > > > > > > > > Oh, and just so I can make everyone > jealous, it cost > > > > me $19 dollars for > > > > > overnight shipping here to Alaska for > my 6 lbs of fish > > > > ;) > > > > > *runs and hides now* > > > > > I bet if I do the math it'll be cheaper > than it would > > > > have been if I > > > > > shopped from my LFS, how sad is that? > > > > > 78+19=$97 for the fish > > > > > 5 peppered cory's, sell for about 6-7 > at my LFS > > > > > 6 bleeding heart tetras, sell for about > 7 at my LFS > > > > > 6 german blue ram's, sell for over 10 > at my LFS > > > > > I think I'm going to boycot the LFS ;) > > > > > > > > > > Amber > > > > > > > > > > Amber Berglund wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > The Rams seemed to be the > healthiest of all the > > > > fish, they are active > > > > > > and already searching for food. > The bleeding > > > > hearts seemed a bit shaken > > > > > > up, but they're eating now too. > The cory's are > > > > hiding, I think they > > > > > > didn't like their trip ;) > > > > > > I love the rams, tiny little guys > must be just > > > > barely sexually mature, > > > > > > it's cute to watch them doing > their pairing up > > > > dances. > > > > > > > > > > > > Amber > > > > > > > > > > > > Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I'd put them in the 10G and > just do 2X or > > > > 3X/week PWC's... or more > > > > > > > often if > > > > > > > you can find the time. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Normally, one shouldn't keep > more than ten > > > > 1" fish (or five 2" fish or > > > > > > > three > > > > > > > 3" fish) in a 10G tank but > that is for long > > > > term purposes. For the > > > > > > > purposes > > > > > > > of Q-tanks and H-tanks, these > stocking > > > > guidelines can be relaxed as > > > > > > > long as > > > > > > > the fish keeper does proper > maintenance on > > > > the tank during their stay. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > > > > > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>> > > > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>>> > > > > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>> > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>>>> > > > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>> > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>>> > > > > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>> > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>>>>> > > > > > > > (Links to any articles > referenced in above > > > > reply are listed on the > > > > > right > > > > > > > side, alphabetically under > Labels and also > > > > under Archives by Year, > > > > > > Month) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > > > > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On > > > > > > > Behalf Of Amber Berglund > > > > > > > Sent: Wednesday, July 01, > 2009 4:12 PM > > > > > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] > Rams and incoming > > > > fish > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Aww, the bleeding hearts are > tiny! LOL, my > > > > males are going to be in > > > > > > heaven > > > > > > > with their 6 little females > ;) LOL They all > > > > look small, less than an > > > > > > > inch in > > > > > > > size. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Amber > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Amber Berglund wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I got 16 fish, they > should all be > > > > small, lemme open the box and look > > > > > > > > to see how many made it > ;) LOL > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Amber > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Lenny V. aka GoldLenny > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > How many fish did > you get in and > > > > how big? The problem with > > > > > using the > > > > > > > > > 55G newly set up > Walstad tank as a > > > > Q-tank is that if something > > > > > > > > > should go > > > > > > > > wrong > > > > > > > > > and you have to > treat the fish, > > > > you may end up having to break > > > > > down > > > > > > > > > that tank > afterwards. A Q-tank is > > > > best kept very simple so that it > > > > > > > > > can be sterilized > afterwards. Run > > > > to Wal-Mart and buy one or more > > > > > > > > > new 10G tanks or > use the Sterilite > > > > clear plastic tubs, > > > > > possibly only > > > > > > > > > one that is large > enough for all > > > > the fish, but I wouldn't use the > > > > > > > > > 55G newly setup > Walstad > > > > > > > > substrate > > > > > > > > > tank. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > > > > > > > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>> > > > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>>> > > > > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>> > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>>>> > > > > > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>> > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>>> > > > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>> > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>>>>> > > > > > > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>> > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>>> > > > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>> > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>>>> > > > > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>> > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>>> > > > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>> > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>>>>>> > > > > > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>> > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>>> > > > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>> > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>>>> > > > > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>> > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>>> > > > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>> > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>>>>> > > > > > > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>> > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>>> > > > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>> > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>>>> > > > > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>> > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>>> > > > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>> > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>>>>>>> > > > > > > > > > (Links to any > articles referenced > > > > in above reply are listed on the > > > > > > > > > right side, > alphabetically under > > > > Labels and also under Archives by > > > > > > > > > Year, > > > > > > > > Month) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -----Original > Message----- > > > > > > > > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > > > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On Behalf Of > > > > Amber > > > > > Berglund > > > > > > > > > Sent: Wednesday, > July 01, 2009 > > > > 1:23 PM > > > > > > > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > > > Subject: > [AquaticLife] Rams and > > > > incoming fish > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I have too many > fish to put into a > > > > 10 gallon for quarantine as I > > > > > > > > > made a large fish > order should I > > > > go ahead and use the 55 > > > > > gallon that > > > > > > > > > I set up this > weekend as a walstad > > > > tank? The cycled media is still > > > > > > > > > in another > > > > > > > > filter and > > > > > > > > > the tank is only > lightly planted > > > > until my plant order arrives this > > > > > > > > week. I > > > > > > > > > could go see what > the lfs has left > > > > in stock but it was pretty bare > > > > > > > > > for plants last > weekend because > > > > they didn't put in a plant order. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I think I'm going > to stick to > > > > aquabid for my fish and plants from > > > > > > > > now on. > > > > > > > > > For the first time > I will know > > > > what I am planting in the tank lol. > > > > > > > > > Can't wait for my 3 > pairs of > > > > german blue rams. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Oh and bill the > blue ones with > > > > pink belly's are the females. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Amber > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ------------------------------------ > > > > > > > > > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING > below it when > > > > replying, Thank You. > > > > > > > > > > ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> > > > > ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , > .·´¯`·..><((((º> > > > > > PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, > DELETE all TEXT that > > > > is NOT > > > > > important to the reply & if > CHANGING the TOPIC of > > > > the original message > > > > > MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new > subject (was > > > > re: old subject)" <- > > > > > > > > > > <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. > > > > , > .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. > > > > > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP > in this matter. > > > > > > > > > > If you do not want all of the groups > emails, instead > > > > of unsubscribing, > > > > > you can change your delivery option by > clicking on > > > > "Edit My > > > > > Membership" on the home page. > > > > > > > > > > Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com > > > <mailto:aquaticlife-digest%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > <mailto:aquaticlife-digest%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > > > > <mailto:aquaticlife-digest%40yahoogroups.com> to > > > > receive the digest, > > > > > which includes up to 25 posts at a time > in a single > > > > email > > > > > > > > > > Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com > > > <mailto:aquaticlife-nomail%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > <mailto:aquaticlife-nomail%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > > > > <mailto:aquaticlife-nomail%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > for the No E-Mail option > > > > > where you will still be able to read > messages on the > > > > group and post > > > > > replies. > > > > > > > > > > Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com > > > <mailto:aquaticlife-normal%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > <mailto:aquaticlife-normal%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > > > > <mailto:aquaticlife-normal%40yahoogroups.com> to > > > > receive individual > > > > > e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ------------------------------------ > > > > > > > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING > below it when > > > > replying, Thank You. > > > > > ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> > > > > ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , > .·´¯`·..><((((º> > > > > PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all > TEXT that is > > > > NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING > the TOPIC of > > > > the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE > -> i.e. "new > > > > subject (was re: old subject)" <- > > > > > <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. > > > > , > .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. > > > > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in > this matter. > > > > > > > > If you do not want all of the groups emails, > instead of > > > > unsubscribing, you can change your delivery > option by > > > > clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the home > page. > > > > > > > > Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com > > > <mailto:aquaticlife-digest%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > <mailto:aquaticlife-digest%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > to receive the digest, which includes up to > 25 posts at a > > > > time in a single email > > > > > > > > Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com > > > <mailto:aquaticlife-nomail%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > <mailto:aquaticlife-nomail%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > for the No E-Mail option where you will > still be able to > > > > read messages on the group and post > replies. > > > > > > > > Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com > > > <mailto:aquaticlife-normal%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > <mailto:aquaticlife-normal%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > to receive individual e-mails.Yahoo! Groups > Links > > > > > > > > > > > > mailto:AquaticLife-fullfeatured@yahoogroups.com > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife-fullfeatured%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife-fullfeatured%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ------------------------------------ > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when > replying, Thank You. > ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> > ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> > PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is > NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of > the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new > subject (was re: old subject)" <- > <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. > , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. > > If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of > unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by > clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the home page.  > > Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com > to receive the digest, which includes up to 25 posts at a > time in a single email > > Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com > for the No E-Mail option where you will still be able to > read messages on the group and post replies. > > Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com > to receive individual e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links > > >     mailto:AquaticLife-fullfeatured@yahoogroups.com > > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 41646	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 7/3/2009
Subject: Re: Live food suggestions please

Some will wash them prior to feeding, some will keep them for a time in any of a number of substances (peat moss, shredded paper, purchased garden soil mix, etc. to clean them out, then feed, etc. I am sure Amber's hubby will lover her all the more for following this information found on The Krib: http://www.thekrib.com/Food/worms.html explaining how to keep and raise them. Do a Google using (without quotes): "+earthworm +fish" to find a ton of links. \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of bill 1433 Sent: Friday, July 03, 2009 6:12 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Live food suggestions please Hi \\Steve// ! Can you refresh my memory here? A long time ago I did this for my Oscars but I did something to them first to avoid contamination to the aquarium water? Let the worms in plain water for an hour or so?  Can't remember? Around here lately kind of blessed, lots of rain, lots of worms! Bill --- On Thu, 7/2/09, Steve Szabo <steve@...> wrote: > From: Steve Szabo <steve@...> > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Live food suggestions please > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Date: Thursday, July 2, 2009, 10:04 PM > Has the ground thawed up there yet? > <g> Try some chopped earthworms. > > \\Steve// > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] > On Behalf Of Amber Berglund > Sent: Thursday, July 02, 2009 12:55 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Subject: [AquaticLife] Live food suggestions please > > Okay my severum seems mad when I feed him anything other > than frozen > foods, so I was going to try getting some live foods for > him, are there > any suggestions to start with that may appear tasty to > him? > I used to feed my oscars worms and such, but I want > something to start > with that should appear nice and tasty to him since he > hasn't had > anything worm like yet ;) LOL. > I'd catch ants but they are hard to find up here, and I > refuse to pour > sugar on my floor in hopes of getting sugar ants, LOL. > The LFS sells crickets but I'm not sure how small they are, > I'd have to > check, he still doesn't have a very big mouth, anything > over a sinking > pellet seems to be too big for him, although I saw him > running around > eyeing the baby platy's to see if they'd fit, perhaps they > just don't > taste good enough? I have at least 10 baby's running around > in the 125 > gallon tank with what looks to be more coming soon ;) > > Amber >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 41647	From: Donna Ransome	Date: 7/3/2009
Subject: Re: Black Beard Algae

My pH is 7.8 and I have lots of black beard algae. I think it’s the SAE that eats black beard algae, and you will probably have to order them. They like to be in groups and in a large tank, a 55G should be OK. I’m using my vallisneria to out-compete the other algaes. I just planted a new batch and it’s starting to work. _____ From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Amber Berglund Sent: Friday, July 03, 2009 12:09 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] RE: Black Beard Algae They don't have the CAE's here in town, I would have to order them. Do Otto's eat this algae? I doubt it. I figured raising the KH, GH and pH would help get rid of it, as it prefers low pH water (6 or less apparently). Oh and the lights are on for 8 hours, it does get some afternoon sun but not for long (hour or less). Amber Gilbert wrote: > > > I did a little surfing on the subject and found that the Chinese Algae > eater (Siamensis) is the only known fish that will eat this type of > algae. Hey Amber, may be time for another visit to the LFS since you > have a legitimate reason to buy more fish LOL :) How long are the > lights on? You may want to consider allowing them on for 8-10 hours. I > had the same problem before with one of my tanks and I tried bleach > and scrubbing them clean but, it always came back until I got the > Algae eaters. Hey Lenny, I guess there is some truth out there if we > test it out and search hard enough. I still take the internet with a > grain of salt (ha ha) and use my books and experience to verify and > check, LOL :). Gilbert, in Hawai'i just kicking back and enjoying life. > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 41648	From: Donna Ransome	Date: 7/3/2009
Subject: Re: Any safe tank mates for the Angel's?

The plecos prefer the soft green algae. I have bristlenose that take care of the glass pretty well. I also have zebra nerite snails.they are new so not sure if they are eating the black beard algae or not, but they appear to be in at least one tank. They reproduce only in brackish water so they don't overrun the tank, and they are an attractive black/brown zebra stripe. _____ From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Lenny V. aka GoldLenny Sent: Friday, July 03, 2009 3:06 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Any safe tank mates for the Angel's? A Pleco comes to mind. Preferably one of the dwarf species so it's not as much burden on the bioload. A Bristle Nosed or Clown Pleco both stay under 5". They are both "armored" catfish so they are at least designed to tolerate a little abuse and ward it off with their spines in their fins and the actual armored plating that covers their skin. Mongabay's profile has this for the SC section (Suggested Companions) for Angelfish: SC: Catfish (Armored, Pimelodids, Doradids, Loricarids), characins (Headstanders, hatchetfish, larger schooling tetras), cichlids (Angelfish, Discus, Waroo, Acaras, Ram, Eartheaters), gouramis, livebearers that can tolerate neutral water conditions. There are a couple of "armored suckermouth catfish" (aka algae eaters) that are called Clown Plecos. Here is one which only grows to around 3"... http://fish. <http://fish.mongabay.com/species/Peckoltia_pulcher.html> mongabay.com/species/Peckoltia_pulcher.html If it is too small and can't deal with your Terrorist Angelfish, then you could always move it to another tank since it is small enough to fit most of your tanks. Here are the others that are called Clown Plecos and look very similar. 3.9" - http://www.planetca <http://www.planetcatfish.com/catelog/species.php?species_id=734> tfish.com/catelog/species.php?species_id=734 2.4" - http://www.planetca <http://www.planetcatfish.com/catelog/species.php?species_id=736> tfish.com/catelog/species.php?species_id=736 Of course, the Bristle Nosed grows closer to the 5" range and a couple of species from the Ancistrus Genus are commonly called Bristlenose Catfish or Bristle Nosed Plecos. The males get the actual bristles on their noses whereas the females look "normal". http://www.planetca <http://www.planetcatfish.com/catelog/species.php?species_id=48> tfish.com/catelog/species.php?species_id=48 http://www.planetca <http://www.planetcatfish.com/catelog/species.php?species_id=49> tfish.com/catelog/species.php?species_id=49 Since all of the "armored catfish" above stay hidden a lot, because they like to hang out in/under wood, rocks, etc., and because they are typically more active at night, they should not threaten the Angelfish as much. If the Angelfish do seem to be a problem when mating, you could always put a divider in the tank to give the dwarf pleco one third of the tank during these mating periods. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Amber Berglund Sent: Thursday, July 02, 2009 11:17 PM To: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Any safe tank mates for the Angel's? Okay is there any safe algae eater that I could put in with my 2 mated Angel's in their 55 gallon? Or maybe a bottom feeder? I dunno... Bigger snails maybe? Amber [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 41649	From: Raymond Wetzel	Date: 7/3/2009
Subject: Re: Black beard algae

If that doesn't work, try diplitating cream (Nair). Worst case scenario- try electrolosis, but not while those plants are still submerged (LOL). Ray --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, Amber Berglund <amber@...> wrote: > > Heh, good one there Deb ;) Never thought of shaving my plants, LOL. > > Amber > > Menagerie_Manager wrote: > > > > > > Newbie, here, so take with grain of salt (and probably a chuckle), but > > have you considered a disposable razor? > > > > DebR and the Three Goldfish > > (CB, Lucille, and Raven) > > (and now 10 White Cloud minnows in quarantine - b-day present from hubby) > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: "Amber Berglund" <amber@... > > <mailto:amber%40rose-fields.com>> > > To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>> > > Sent: Thursday, July 02, 2009 5:48 PM > > Subject: [AquaticLife] Black beard algae > > > > Okay so I have a fake silk plant that has black beard algae all over it. > > I have tried washing it in the dishwasher twice (two different settings > > and placements), and now it's soaking in a bowl of bleach. How do I get > > this stuff off? It's like glue I swear. > > > > Amber > > > > ------------------------------------ > > > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. > > ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> > > PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT > > important to > > the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the > > SUBJECT > > LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- > > <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. > > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. > > > > If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of unsubscribing, > > you > > can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My Membership" on > > the > > home page. > > > > Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com > > <mailto:aquaticlife-digest%40yahoogroups.com> to receive the digest, > > which > > includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email > > > > Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com > > <mailto:aquaticlife-nomail%40yahoogroups.com> for the No E-Mail option > > where > > you will still be able to read messages on the group and post replies. > > > > Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com > > <mailto:aquaticlife-normal%40yahoogroups.com> to receive individual > > e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 41650	From: Raymond Wetzel	Date: 7/3/2009
Subject: Re: Black Beard Algae

Please note, the American Flagfish, or - "Florida Flagfish" (Jordanella floridae), found in Florida and southern Georgia, is not the same fish as the Jamaican Killifish (Cubanichthys pengelleyi, found in the West Indies, as could be interpreted to read here. I've never known the Cuban Killifish to eat Black Beard Algae, but the American Flagfish will eat it, although as \\Steve// indicates, it prefers a more meaty diet. You may need to cut back on its rations to induce it to eat this algae, which it will do so in varying degrees -- sometimes not really needing coaxing, even relishing it. It is a normally pugnacious species though -- as \\Steve// again says -- and unless you want to maintain it in a heavily-planted "Species" tank on its own, I'd suggest making prior arrangements with the LFS to trade them in after they do their algae clean up, under any excuse. Ray --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Gilbert" <grodhi96792@...> wrote: > > Found another fish that is reported to be a consumer of this algae it's the American Flagfish which is a member of the Cyprinodontidae family and looks like a molly, hmmmm, I wonder if Mollies would help you out too? Look for it under names like the "Florida Flagfish" or the Jamaican Killifish (Cubanichthys pengelleyi). Hope this helps. :) >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 41651	From: harry perry	Date: 7/3/2009
Subject: Black Hair Algae

I haven't been following this thread completely. Has anyone suggested Hydrogen Peroxide for the treatment of hair algae?. Go here.           http://http://tinyurl.com/kuohfk This works well, but, it's not a substitute for eliminating the cause of the problem in the first place. Harry [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 41652	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 7/3/2009
Subject: Re: Any safe tank mates for the Angel's?

I was just concerned that their uneaten food will be an issue. I didn't want to add snails, but I wanted some sort of bottom feeder that was protected enough from their nipping. (it's not pleasant heh). I haven't been overfeeding them very much but they don't seem as hungry, perhaps they're still settling into the new tank? I don't have all the plants in there that I wanted, but I went out to the LFS yesterday and raided all of there windelov java ferns, and got a healthy looking sword of some kind (looked line a rubin but not sure since nothing is labeled). My plant package should arrive today, if not then monday because I don't think our local post office is working tomorrow. I'm getting a few BN pleco's from Pam but wasn't sure if they were armored enough against nippy fish. Also don't know what size they are, LOL, forgot to ask Pam. Either way I can grow them out in one of my other tanks if they're babies. Amber Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > > > A Pleco comes to mind. Preferably one of the dwarf species so it's not as > much burden on the bioload. A Bristle Nosed or Clown Pleco both stay under > 5". They are both "armored" catfish so they are at least designed to > tolerate a little abuse and ward it off with their spines in their > fins and > the actual armored plating that covers their skin. > > Mongabay's profile has this for the SC section (Suggested Companions) for > Angelfish: > > SC: Catfish (Armored, Pimelodids, Doradids, Loricarids), characins > (Headstanders, hatchetfish, larger schooling tetras), cichlids (Angelfish, > Discus, Waroo, Acaras, Ram, Eartheaters), gouramis, livebearers that can > tolerate neutral water conditions. > > There are a couple of "armored suckermouth catfish" (aka algae eaters) > that > are called Clown Plecos. > > Here is one which only grows to around 3"... > http://fish.mongabay.com/species/Peckoltia_pulcher.html > <http://fish.mongabay.com/species/Peckoltia_pulcher.html> > > If it is too small and can't deal with your Terrorist Angelfish, then you > could always move it to another tank since it is small enough to fit > most of > your tanks. > > Here are the others that are called Clown Plecos and look very similar. > 3.9" - http://www.planetcatfish.com/catelog/species.php?species_id=734 > <http://www.planetcatfish.com/catelog/species.php?species_id=734> > 2.4" - http://www.planetcatfish.com/catelog/species.php?species_id=736 > <http://www.planetcatfish.com/catelog/species.php?species_id=736> > > Of course, the Bristle Nosed grows closer to the 5" range and a couple of > species from the Ancistrus Genus are commonly called Bristlenose > Catfish or > Bristle Nosed Plecos. The males get the actual bristles on their noses > whereas the females look "normal". > http://www.planetcatfish.com/catelog/species.php?species_id=48 > <http://www.planetcatfish.com/catelog/species.php?species_id=48> > http://www.planetcatfish.com/catelog/species.php?species_id=49 > <http://www.planetcatfish.com/catelog/species.php?species_id=49> > > Since all of the "armored catfish" above stay hidden a lot, because they > like to hang out in/under wood, rocks, etc., and because they are > typically > more active at night, they should not threaten the Angelfish as much. If > the Angelfish do seem to be a problem when mating, you could always put a > divider in the tank to give the dwarf pleco one third of the tank during > these mating periods. > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right > side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On > Behalf Of Amber Berglund > Sent: Thursday, July 02, 2009 11:17 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Subject: [AquaticLife] Any safe tank mates for the Angel's? > > Okay is there any safe algae eater that I could put in with my 2 mated > Angel's in their 55 gallon? > Or maybe a bottom feeder? I dunno... > Bigger snails maybe? > > Amber > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 41653	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 7/3/2009
Subject: Re: Live food suggestions please

Earthworms don't come out much here, I could find lots of slugs though, LOL. I was thinking of maybe small crickets? Or do worms appear tastier to fish? LOL I can't remember the kind of worms I bought for my oscars it was ages ago. It's right on the tip of my fingers but my darn hands don't want to type it out for me, LOL Amber bill 1433 wrote: > > > > Hi \\Steve// ! > > Can you refresh my memory here? A long time ago I did this for my > Oscars but I did something to them first to avoid contamination to the > aquarium water? Let the worms in plain water for an hour or so? Can't > remember? > > Around here lately kind of blessed, lots of rain, lots of worms! > > Bill > > --- On Thu, 7/2/09, Steve Szabo <steve@... > <mailto:steve%40familyszabo.com>> wrote: > > > From: Steve Szabo <steve@... > <mailto:steve%40familyszabo.com>> > > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Live food suggestions please > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > Date: Thursday, July 2, 2009, 10:04 PM > > Has the ground thawed up there yet? > > <g> Try some chopped earthworms. > > > > \\Steve// > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] > > On Behalf Of Amber Berglund > > Sent: Thursday, July 02, 2009 12:55 PM > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > Subject: [AquaticLife] Live food suggestions please > > > > Okay my severum seems mad when I feed him anything other > > than frozen > > foods, so I was going to try getting some live foods for > > him, are there > > any suggestions to start with that may appear tasty to > > him? > > I used to feed my oscars worms and such, but I want > > something to start > > with that should appear nice and tasty to him since he > > hasn't had > > anything worm like yet ;) LOL. > > I'd catch ants but they are hard to find up here, and I > > refuse to pour > > sugar on my floor in hopes of getting sugar ants, LOL. > > The LFS sells crickets but I'm not sure how small they are, > > I'd have to > > check, he still doesn't have a very big mouth, anything > > over a sinking > > pellet seems to be too big for him, although I saw him > > running around > > eyeing the baby platy's to see if they'd fit, perhaps they > > just don't > > taste good enough? I have at least 10 baby's running around > > in the 125 > > gallon tank with what looks to be more coming soon ;) > > > > Amber > > > > > > > > ------------------------------------ > > > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when > > replying, Thank You. > > ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> > > ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> > > PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is > > NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of > > the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new > > subject (was re: old subject)" <- > > <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. > > , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. > > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. > > > > If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of > > unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by > > clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the home page. > > > > Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:aquaticlife-digest%40yahoogroups.com> > > to receive the digest, which includes up to 25 posts at a > > time in a single email > > > > Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:aquaticlife-nomail%40yahoogroups.com> > > for the No E-Mail option where you will still be able to > > read messages on the group and post replies. > > > > Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:aquaticlife-normal%40yahoogroups.com> > > to receive individual e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > mailto:AquaticLife-fullfeatured@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife-fullfeatured%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 41654	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 7/3/2009
Subject: Re: Amber, need to know? Rams and incoming fish

How is it too far? Were you looking for someone within driving distance? Over night shipping with fed ex is really overnight ;) (even in Alaska). Amber bill 1433 wrote: > > > > Long Distance Shopping? > > Hi Amber, > > Check out your seller, too far for me but found another that is not. > To me it just started becoming a money case. If your paying high buck > at the LPS BUT the fish are of poor quality and "your stuck with what > you get" type of thing, its time to put your show on the road! > > Bill > > --- On Fri, 7/3/09, Amber Berglund <amber@... > <mailto:amber%40rose-fields.com>> wrote: > > > From: Amber Berglund <amber@... > <mailto:amber%40rose-fields.com>> > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Amber, need to know? Rams and incoming fish > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > Date: Friday, July 3, 2009, 12:07 AM > > Okay so who wants to know what my LFS > > is selling their German Blue rams > > for? They are the same size as the ones I received (about > > 3/4 of an > > inch, maybe 1/2 an inch). I bought mine for 7/each. Got the > > bleeding > > hearts for 3 each, and the peppered corys for 3 each. > > They are selling them for 15.95... I told the worker that > > there was no > > way I was going to pay that price considering how much I > > just got mine > > for, I don't think I'll be buying fish from my LFS much at > > all. Not only > > did I get them a day earlier than I would have if I had > > gone out to my > > LFS, but they seem nice and healthy AND the shipper sexed > > them for me. > > They also sexed all the bleeding heart tetras that I got, I > > didn't ask > > them to sex the cory's LOL. > > Oh and speaking of the cory's are starting to come out and > > play more, > > good to see them out, was a little worried at first but > > they seem to be > > settling into the new tank. > > I definitely want to do another order from them some day in > > the future, > > hopefully not replacing any fish, but you never know ;) > > So far all the new fish are doing great, nice and active > > and eating > > well. The bleeding hearts are schooling too. > > > > Amber > > > > Amber Berglund wrote: > > > > > > > > > Best part of my discount is that it even works for > > international orders, > > > I did a price check on getting a box from bangkok and > > the price was less > > > than $40 for international priority, only thing is > > that it takes 3-5 > > > days depending on customs ;) LOL > > > I almost bought those purple guppy's from thialand > > except for the fact > > > that it takes so long for them to get there, LOL. > > > > > > Amber > > > > > > bill 1433 wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Thanks Amber! > > > > > > > > I forgot the FedEx discount to you! I thought > > that was l-o-w! > > > > > > > > Thanks also for the seller info will check. > > > > > > > > Bill > > > > > > > > --- On Thu, 7/2/09, Amber Berglund <amber@... > <mailto:amber%40rose-fields.com> > > > > > <mailto:amber%40rose-fields.com> > > > > <mailto:amber%40rose-fields.com>> > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > From: Amber Berglund <amber@... > <mailto:amber%40rose-fields.com> > > > > > <mailto:amber%40rose-fields.com> > > > > <mailto:amber%40rose-fields.com>> > > > > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Amber, need to > > know? Rams and incoming fish > > > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > Date: Thursday, July 2, 2009, 10:48 AM > > > > > The seller is wetspotcx on aquabid, > > > > > contact Grey directly and I'm sure > > > > > he would be more than willing to work with > > you. They were > > > > > very > > > > > reasonable with all my requests, such as > > sexing the fish > > > > > before sending > > > > > them so I knew I got 3 pairs of rams not 6 > > males ;) LOL > > > > > My shipping is discounted because I work for > > fed ex, most > > > > > shipping for > > > > > the Lower US is around 50 for overnight > > shipping depending > > > > > on your zip > > > > > code, just make it a big order and it'll be > > worth it. > > > > > > > > > > Amber > > > > > > > > > > bill 1433 wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I didn't ask Amber???? > > > > > > > > > > > > >From Where? From Whom? > > > > > > > > > > > > Need to ask now---------------I might > > have to do the > > > > > same thing! > > > > > > Details of sale? You liked the seller? > > > > > Easy to work with? > > > > > > Time? From order to delivery? Cost of > > > > > shipping was reasonable I > > > > > > think to what I've seen so far. Was it > > right to > > > > > your door? > > > > > > > > > > > > Bill > > > > > > > > > > > > --- On Wed, 7/1/09, Amber Berglund > > <amber@... <mailto:amber%40rose-fields.com> > > > > > <mailto:amber%40rose-fields.com> > > > > <mailto:amber%40rose-fields.com> > > > > > > > > > > > > > <mailto:amber%40rose-fields.com>> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > From: Amber Berglund <amber@... > <mailto:amber%40rose-fields.com> > > > > > <mailto:amber%40rose-fields.com> > > > > <mailto:amber%40rose-fields.com> > > > > > > > > > > > > > <mailto:amber%40rose-fields.com>> > > > > > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Rams and > > incoming fish > > > > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > Date: Wednesday, July 1, 2009, 10:05 > > PM > > > > > > > > > > > > Oh, and just so I can make everyone > > jealous, it cost > > > > > me $19 dollars for > > > > > > overnight shipping here to Alaska for > > my 6 lbs of fish > > > > > ;) > > > > > > *runs and hides now* > > > > > > I bet if I do the math it'll be cheaper > > than it would > > > > > have been if I > > > > > > shopped from my LFS, how sad is that? > > > > > > 78+19=$97 for the fish > > > > > > 5 peppered cory's, sell for about 6-7 > > at my LFS > > > > > > 6 bleeding heart tetras, sell for about > > 7 at my LFS > > > > > > 6 german blue ram's, sell for over 10 > > at my LFS > > > > > > I think I'm going to boycot the LFS ;) > > > > > > > > > > > > Amber > > > > > > > > > > > > Amber Berglund wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > The Rams seemed to be the > > healthiest of all the > > > > > fish, they are active > > > > > > > and already searching for food. > > The bleeding > > > > > hearts seemed a bit shaken > > > > > > > up, but they're eating now too. > > The cory's are > > > > > hiding, I think they > > > > > > > didn't like their trip ;) > > > > > > > I love the rams, tiny little guys > > must be just > > > > > barely sexually mature, > > > > > > > it's cute to watch them doing > > their pairing up > > > > > dances. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Amber > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I'd put them in the 10G and > > just do 2X or > > > > > 3X/week PWC's... or more > > > > > > > > often if > > > > > > > > you can find the time. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Normally, one shouldn't keep > > more than ten > > > > > 1" fish (or five 2" fish or > > > > > > > > three > > > > > > > > 3" fish) in a 10G tank but > > that is for long > > > > > term purposes. For the > > > > > > > > purposes > > > > > > > > of Q-tanks and H-tanks, these > > stocking > > > > > guidelines can be relaxed as > > > > > > > > long as > > > > > > > > the fish keeper does proper > > maintenance on > > > > > the tank during their stay. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > > > > > > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>> > > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>>> > > > > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>> > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>>>> > > > > > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>> > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>>> > > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>> > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>>>>> > > > > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>> > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>>> > > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>> > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>>>> > > > > > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>> > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>>> > > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>> > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>>>>>> > > > > > > > > (Links to any articles > > referenced in above > > > > > reply are listed on the > > > > > > right > > > > > > > > side, alphabetically under > > Labels and also > > > > > under Archives by Year, > > > > > > > Month) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > > > > > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On > > > > > > > > Behalf Of Amber Berglund > > > > > > > > Sent: Wednesday, July 01, > > 2009 4:12 PM > > > > > > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] > > Rams and incoming > > > > > fish > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Aww, the bleeding hearts are > > tiny! LOL, my > > > > > males are going to be in > > > > > > > heaven > > > > > > > > with their 6 little females > > ;) LOL They all > > > > > look small, less than an > > > > > > > > inch in > > > > > > > > size. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Amber > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Amber Berglund wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I got 16 fish, they > > should all be > > > > > small, lemme open the box and look > > > > > > > > > to see how many made it > > ;) LOL > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Amber > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Lenny V. aka GoldLenny > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > How many fish did > > you get in and > > > > > how big? The problem with > > > > > > using the > > > > > > > > > > 55G newly set up > > Walstad tank as a > > > > > Q-tank is that if something > > > > > > > > > > should go > > > > > > > > > wrong > > > > > > > > > > and you have to > > treat the fish, > > > > > you may end up having to break > > > > > > down > > > > > > > > > > that tank > > afterwards. A Q-tank is > > > > > best kept very simple so that it > > > > > > > > > > can be sterilized > > afterwards. Run > > > > > to Wal-Mart and buy one or more > > > > > > > > > > new 10G tanks or > > use the Sterilite > > > > > clear plastic tubs, > > > > > > possibly only > > > > > > > > > > one that is large > > enough for all > > > > > the fish, but I wouldn't use the > > > > > > > > > > 55G newly setup > > Walstad > > > > > > > > > substrate > > > > > > > > > > tank. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > > > > > > > > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>> > > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>>> > > > > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>> > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com 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> > > > > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>>> > > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>> > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>>>> > > > > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>> > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>>> > > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>> > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>>>>> > > > > > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>> > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>>> > > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>> > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>>>> > > > > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>> > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>>> > > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>> > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>>>>>> > > > > > > > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>> > > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>>> > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>> > > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>>>> > > > > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>> > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>>> > > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>> > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>>>>> > > > > > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>> > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>>> > > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>> > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>>>> > > > > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>> > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>>> > > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>> > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>>>>>>>> > > > > > > > > > > (Links to any > > articles referenced > > > > > in above reply are listed on the > > > > > > > > > > right side, > > alphabetically under > > > > > Labels and also under Archives by > > > > > > > > > > Year, > > > > > > > > > Month) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -----Original > > Message----- > > > > > > > > > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > > > > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On Behalf Of > > > > > Amber > > > > > > Berglund > > > > > > > > > > Sent: Wednesday, > > July 01, 2009 > > > > > 1:23 PM > > > > > > > > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > > > > Subject: > > [AquaticLife] Rams and > > > > > incoming fish > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I have too many > > fish to put into a > > > > > 10 gallon for quarantine as I > > > > > > > > > > made a large fish > > order should I > > > > > go ahead and use the 55 > > > > > > gallon that > > > > > > > > > > I set up this > > weekend as a walstad > > > > > tank? The cycled media is still > > > > > > > > > > in another > > > > > > > > > filter and > > > > > > > > > > the tank is only > > lightly planted > > > > > until my plant order arrives this > > > > > > > > > week. I > > > > > > > > > > could go see what > > the lfs has left > > > > > in stock but it was pretty bare > > > > > > > > > > for plants last > > weekend because > > > > > they didn't put in a plant order. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I think I'm going > > to stick to > > > > > aquabid for my fish and plants from > > > > > > > > > now on. > > > > > > > > > > For the first time > > I will know > > > > > what I am planting in the tank lol. > > > > > > > > > > Can't wait for my 3 > > pairs of > > > > > german blue rams. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Oh and bill the > > blue ones with > > > > > pink belly's are the females. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Amber > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ------------------------------------ > > > > > > > > > > > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING > > below it when > > > > > replying, Thank You. > > > > > > > > > > > > > ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> > > > > > ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , > > .·´¯`·..><((((º> > > > > > > PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, > > DELETE all TEXT that > > > > > is NOT > > > > > > important to the reply & if > > CHANGING the TOPIC of > > > > > the original message > > > > > > MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new > > subject (was > > > > > re: old subject)" <- > > > > > > > > > > > > > <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. > > > > > , > > .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. > > > > > > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP > > in this matter. > > > > > > > > > > > > If you do not want all of the groups > > emails, instead > > > > > of unsubscribing, > > > > > > you can change your delivery option by > > clicking on > > > > > "Edit My > > > > > > Membership" on the home page. > > > > > > > > > > > > Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:aquaticlife-digest%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > <mailto:aquaticlife-digest%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > <mailto:aquaticlife-digest%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > > > > > > > <mailto:aquaticlife-digest%40yahoogroups.com> to > > > > > receive the digest, > > > > > > which includes up to 25 posts at a time > > in a single > > > > > email > > > > > > > > > > > > Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:aquaticlife-nomail%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > <mailto:aquaticlife-nomail%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > <mailto:aquaticlife-nomail%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > > > > > > > <mailto:aquaticlife-nomail%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > for the No E-Mail option > > > > > > where you will still be able to read > > messages on the > > > > > group and post > > > > > > replies. > > > > > > > > > > > > Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:aquaticlife-normal%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > <mailto:aquaticlife-normal%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > <mailto:aquaticlife-normal%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > > > > > > > <mailto:aquaticlife-normal%40yahoogroups.com> to > > > > > receive individual > > > > > > e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ------------------------------------ > > > > > > > > > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING > > below it when > > > > > replying, Thank You. > > > > > > > ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> > > > > > ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , > > .·´¯`·..><((((º> > > > > > PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all > > TEXT that is > > > > > NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING > > the TOPIC of > > > > > the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE > > -> i.e. "new > > > > > subject (was re: old subject)" <- > > > > > > > <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. > > > > > , > > .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. > > > > > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in > > this matter. > > > > > > > > > > If you do not want all of the groups emails, > > instead of > > > > > unsubscribing, you can change your delivery > > option by > > > > > clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the home > > page. > > > > > > > > > > Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:aquaticlife-digest%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > <mailto:aquaticlife-digest%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > <mailto:aquaticlife-digest%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > to receive the digest, which includes up to > > 25 posts at a > > > > > time in a single email > > > > > > > > > > Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:aquaticlife-nomail%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > <mailto:aquaticlife-nomail%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > <mailto:aquaticlife-nomail%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > for the No E-Mail option where you will > > still be able to > > > > > read messages on the group and post > > replies. > > > > > > > > > > Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:aquaticlife-normal%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > <mailto:aquaticlife-normal%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > <mailto:aquaticlife-normal%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > to receive individual e-mails.Yahoo! Groups > > Links > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > mailto:AquaticLife-fullfeatured@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife-fullfeatured%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife-fullfeatured%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife-fullfeatured%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ------------------------------------ > > > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when > > replying, Thank You. > > ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> > > ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> > > PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is > > NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of > > the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new > > subject (was re: old subject)" <- > > <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. > > , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. > > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. > > > > If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of > > unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by > > clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the home page. > > > > Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:aquaticlife-digest%40yahoogroups.com> > > to receive the digest, which includes up to 25 posts at a > > time in a single email > > > > Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:aquaticlife-nomail%40yahoogroups.com> > > for the No E-Mail option where you will still be able to > > read messages on the group and post replies. > > > > Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:aquaticlife-normal%40yahoogroups.com> > > to receive individual e-mails.Yahoo! 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Group: AquaticLife	Message: 41655	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 7/3/2009
Subject: Re: Black Beard Algae

Well that sounds out of the picture, I can barely get the LFS to agree to anything, LOL. Couldn't believe how much they were selling the german blue rams for, I saw the price and was VERY thankful I ordered them instead. They were 15.95 each! Same size as the ones I got as well. Amber Raymond Wetzel wrote: > > > Please note, the American Flagfish, or - "Florida Flagfish" > (Jordanella floridae), found in Florida and southern Georgia, is not > the same fish as the Jamaican Killifish (Cubanichthys pengelleyi, > found in the West Indies, as could be interpreted to read here. I've > never known the Cuban Killifish to eat Black Beard Algae, but the > American Flagfish will eat it, although as \\Steve// indicates, it > prefers a more meaty diet. You may need to cut back on its rations to > induce it to eat this algae, which it will do so in varying degrees -- > sometimes not really needing coaxing, even relishing it. It is a > normally pugnacious species though -- as \\Steve// again says -- and > unless you want to maintain it in a heavily-planted "Species" tank on > its own, I'd suggest making prior arrangements with the LFS to trade > them in after they do their algae clean up, under any excuse. Ray > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>, "Gilbert" <grodhi96792@...> wrote: > > > > Found another fish that is reported to be a consumer of this algae > it's the American Flagfish which is a member of the Cyprinodontidae > family and looks like a molly, hmmmm, I wonder if Mollies would help > you out too? Look for it under names like the "Florida Flagfish" or > the Jamaican Killifish (Cubanichthys pengelleyi). Hope this helps. :) > > > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 41656	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 7/3/2009
Subject: Re: Any safe tank mates for the Angel's?

Before, with competition in the other tank, they probably were acting greedy as part of their show of aggression. Now that they do not have all the competition, they don't have to act as greedy. Don't you know the red-neck version of "Grace"? "Those who eat the fastest, eat the mostest! AMEN!" Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Amber Berglund Sent: Friday, July 03, 2009 10:12 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Any safe tank mates for the Angel's? I was just concerned that their uneaten food will be an issue. I didn't want to add snails, but I wanted some sort of bottom feeder that was protected enough from their nipping. (it's not pleasant heh). I haven't been overfeeding them very much but they don't seem as hungry, perhaps they're still settling into the new tank? I don't have all the plants in there that I wanted, but I went out to the LFS yesterday and raided all of there windelov java ferns, and got a healthy looking sword of some kind (looked line a rubin but not sure since nothing is labeled). My plant package should arrive today, if not then monday because I don't think our local post office is working tomorrow. I'm getting a few BN pleco's from Pam but wasn't sure if they were armored enough against nippy fish. Also don't know what size they are, LOL, forgot to ask Pam. Either way I can grow them out in one of my other tanks if they're babies. Amber Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > > > A Pleco comes to mind. Preferably one of the dwarf species so it's not > as much burden on the bioload. A Bristle Nosed or Clown Pleco both > stay under 5". They are both "armored" catfish so they are at least > designed to tolerate a little abuse and ward it off with their spines > in their fins and the actual armored plating that covers their skin. > > Mongabay's profile has this for the SC section (Suggested Companions) > for > Angelfish: > > SC: Catfish (Armored, Pimelodids, Doradids, Loricarids), characins > (Headstanders, hatchetfish, larger schooling tetras), cichlids > (Angelfish, Discus, Waroo, Acaras, Ram, Eartheaters), gouramis, > livebearers that can tolerate neutral water conditions. > > There are a couple of "armored suckermouth catfish" (aka algae eaters) > that are called Clown Plecos. > > Here is one which only grows to around 3"... > http://fish.mongabay.com/species/Peckoltia_pulcher.html > <http://fish.mongabay.com/species/Peckoltia_pulcher.html> > > If it is too small and can't deal with your Terrorist Angelfish, then > you could always move it to another tank since it is small enough to > fit most of your tanks. > > Here are the others that are called Clown Plecos and look very similar. > 3.9" - http://www.planetcatfish.com/catelog/species.php?species_id=734 > <http://www.planetcatfish.com/catelog/species.php?species_id=734> > 2.4" - http://www.planetcatfish.com/catelog/species.php?species_id=736 > <http://www.planetcatfish.com/catelog/species.php?species_id=736> > > Of course, the Bristle Nosed grows closer to the 5" range and a couple > of species from the Ancistrus Genus are commonly called Bristlenose > Catfish or Bristle Nosed Plecos. The males get the actual bristles on > their noses whereas the females look "normal". > http://www.planetcatfish.com/catelog/species.php?species_id=48 > <http://www.planetcatfish.com/catelog/species.php?species_id=48> > http://www.planetcatfish.com/catelog/species.php?species_id=49 > <http://www.planetcatfish.com/catelog/species.php?species_id=49> > > Since all of the "armored catfish" above stay hidden a lot, because > they like to hang out in/under wood, rocks, etc., and because they are > typically more active at night, they should not threaten the Angelfish > as much. If the Angelfish do seem to be a problem when mating, you > could always put a divider in the tank to give the dwarf pleco one > third of the tank during these mating periods. > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> (Links to any articles referenced in > above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels > and also under Archives by Year, Month) > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On Behalf Of Amber Berglund > Sent: Thursday, July 02, 2009 11:17 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Subject: [AquaticLife] Any safe tank mates for the Angel's? > > Okay is there any safe algae eater that I could put in with my 2 mated > Angel's in their 55 gallon? > Or maybe a bottom feeder? I dunno... > Bigger snails maybe? > > Amber

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 41657	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 7/3/2009
Subject: Re: Black beard algae

So if I try electrolosis I suppose that means I shouldn't have my arm in the tank either? ;) LOL I still have it soaking in bleach, if anything it'll be white by the time I'm done soaking it, LOL. I'll have white beard algae instead. Amber Raymond Wetzel wrote: > > > If that doesn't work, try diplitating cream (Nair). Worst case > scenario- try electrolosis, but not while those plants are still > submerged (LOL). Ray > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>, Amber Berglund <amber@...> wrote: > > > > Heh, good one there Deb ;) Never thought of shaving my plants, LOL. > > > > Amber > > > > Menagerie_Manager wrote: > > > > > > > > > Newbie, here, so take with grain of salt (and probably a chuckle), but > > > have you considered a disposable razor? > > > > > > DebR and the Three Goldfish > > > (CB, Lucille, and Raven) > > > (and now 10 White Cloud minnows in quarantine - b-day present from > hubby) > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > From: "Amber Berglund" <amber@... > > > <mailto:amber%40rose-fields.com>> > > > To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>> > > > Sent: Thursday, July 02, 2009 5:48 PM > > > Subject: [AquaticLife] Black beard algae > > > > > > Okay so I have a fake silk plant that has black beard algae all > over it. > > > I have tried washing it in the dishwasher twice (two different > settings > > > and placements), and now it's soaking in a bowl of bleach. How do > I get > > > this stuff off? It's like glue I swear. > > > > > > Amber > > > > > > ------------------------------------ > > > > > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, > Thank You. > > > ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , > .·´¯`·..><((((º> > > > PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT > > > important to > > > the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the > > > SUBJECT > > > LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- > > > <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , > .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. > > > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. > > > > > > If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of > unsubscribing, > > > you > > > can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My > Membership" on > > > the > > > home page. > > > > > > Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:aquaticlife-digest%40yahoogroups.com> > > > <mailto:aquaticlife-digest%40yahoogroups.com> to receive the digest, > > > which > > > includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email > > > > > > Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:aquaticlife-nomail%40yahoogroups.com> > > > <mailto:aquaticlife-nomail%40yahoogroups.com> for the No E-Mail > option > > > where > > > you will still be able to read messages on the group and post replies. > > > > > > Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:aquaticlife-normal%40yahoogroups.com> > > > <mailto:aquaticlife-normal%40yahoogroups.com> to receive individual > > > e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > > > > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 41658	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 7/3/2009
Subject: Re: Live food suggestions please

If you read that article on The Krib, that \\Steve// posted, you can actually raise earthworms or redworms indoors and they are clean so they don't stink. You could even use the space under one of your fish stands for a 1' x 2' x 8" deep box. The redworms are supposedly better for indoor raising as they don't try to escape like earthworms will occasionally do. And then you'll always be ready for an impromptu fishing trip too! Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Amber Berglund Sent: Friday, July 03, 2009 10:14 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Live food suggestions please Earthworms don't come out much here, I could find lots of slugs though, LOL. I was thinking of maybe small crickets? Or do worms appear tastier to fish? LOL I can't remember the kind of worms I bought for my oscars it was ages ago. It's right on the tip of my fingers but my darn hands don't want to type it out for me, LOL Amber bill 1433 wrote: > > > > Hi \\Steve// ! > > Can you refresh my memory here? A long time ago I did this for my > Oscars but I did something to them first to avoid contamination to the > aquarium water? Let the worms in plain water for an hour or so? Can't > remember? > > Around here lately kind of blessed, lots of rain, lots of worms! > > Bill > > --- On Thu, 7/2/09, Steve Szabo <steve@... > <mailto:steve%40familyszabo.com>> wrote: > > > From: Steve Szabo <steve@... > <mailto:steve%40familyszabo.com>> > > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Live food suggestions please > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > Date: Thursday, July 2, 2009, 10:04 PM Has the ground thawed up > > there yet? > > <g> Try some chopped earthworms. > > > > \\Steve// > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] > > On Behalf Of Amber Berglund > > Sent: Thursday, July 02, 2009 12:55 PM > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > Subject: [AquaticLife] Live food suggestions please > > > > Okay my severum seems mad when I feed him anything other than frozen > > foods, so I was going to try getting some live foods for him, are > > there any suggestions to start with that may appear tasty to him? > > I used to feed my oscars worms and such, but I want something to > > start with that should appear nice and tasty to him since he hasn't > > had anything worm like yet ;) LOL. > > I'd catch ants but they are hard to find up here, and I refuse to > > pour sugar on my floor in hopes of getting sugar ants, LOL. > > The LFS sells crickets but I'm not sure how small they are, I'd have > > to check, he still doesn't have a very big mouth, anything over a > > sinking pellet seems to be too big for him, although I saw him > > running around eyeing the baby platy's to see if they'd fit, perhaps > > they just don't taste good enough? I have at least 10 baby's running > > around in the 125 gallon tank with what looks to be more coming soon > > ;) > > > > Amber

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 41659	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 7/3/2009
Subject: Re: Any safe tank mates for the Angel's?

Well I guess I'm just used to them around other fish then, they seem so odd on their own.... so peaceful, LOL. The tank definitely needs more plants, but I wiped the LFS out of plants while I was out there yesterday just so I could put some fast growers in until my rooted plants all arrive. Mostly needs some taller plants, all of them are babies so far ;) LOL They spend their time hanging out on the "slow water" side of the tank where the sword was planted, I really don't like HOB's on one end of a 55 gallon though, has such odd water flow, but at least all the duckweed is safe on one end. Amber Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > > > Before, with competition in the other tank, they probably were acting > greedy > as part of their show of aggression. Now that they do not have all the > competition, they don't have to act as greedy. > > Don't you know the red-neck version of "Grace"? "Those who eat the > fastest, eat the mostest! AMEN!" > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right > side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On > Behalf Of Amber Berglund > Sent: Friday, July 03, 2009 10:12 AM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Any safe tank mates for the Angel's? > > I was just concerned that their uneaten food will be an issue. I > didn't want > to add snails, but I wanted some sort of bottom feeder that was protected > enough from their nipping. (it's not pleasant heh). I haven't been > overfeeding them very much but they don't seem as hungry, perhaps they're > still settling into the new tank? > I don't have all the plants in there that I wanted, but I went out to the > LFS yesterday and raided all of there windelov java ferns, and got a > healthy > looking sword of some kind (looked line a rubin but not sure since nothing > is labeled). > My plant package should arrive today, if not then monday because I don't > think our local post office is working tomorrow. > I'm getting a few BN pleco's from Pam but wasn't sure if they were armored > enough against nippy fish. Also don't know what size they are, LOL, forgot > to ask Pam. Either way I can grow them out in one of my other tanks if > they're babies. > > Amber > > Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > > > > > > A Pleco comes to mind. Preferably one of the dwarf species so it's not > > as much burden on the bioload. A Bristle Nosed or Clown Pleco both > > stay under 5". They are both "armored" catfish so they are at least > > designed to tolerate a little abuse and ward it off with their spines > > in their fins and the actual armored plating that covers their skin. > > > > Mongabay's profile has this for the SC section (Suggested Companions) > > for > > Angelfish: > > > > SC: Catfish (Armored, Pimelodids, Doradids, Loricarids), characins > > (Headstanders, hatchetfish, larger schooling tetras), cichlids > > (Angelfish, Discus, Waroo, Acaras, Ram, Eartheaters), gouramis, > > livebearers that can tolerate neutral water conditions. > > > > There are a couple of "armored suckermouth catfish" (aka algae eaters) > > that are called Clown Plecos. > > > > Here is one which only grows to around 3"... > > http://fish.mongabay.com/species/Peckoltia_pulcher.html > <http://fish.mongabay.com/species/Peckoltia_pulcher.html> > > <http://fish.mongabay.com/species/Peckoltia_pulcher.html > <http://fish.mongabay.com/species/Peckoltia_pulcher.html>> > > > > If it is too small and can't deal with your Terrorist Angelfish, then > > you could always move it to another tank since it is small enough to > > fit most of your tanks. > > > > Here are the others that are called Clown Plecos and look very similar. > > 3.9" - > http://www.planetcatfish.com/catelog/species.php?species_id=734 > <http://www.planetcatfish.com/catelog/species.php?species_id=734> > > <http://www.planetcatfish.com/catelog/species.php?species_id=734 > <http://www.planetcatfish.com/catelog/species.php?species_id=734>> > > 2.4" - > http://www.planetcatfish.com/catelog/species.php?species_id=736 > <http://www.planetcatfish.com/catelog/species.php?species_id=736> > > <http://www.planetcatfish.com/catelog/species.php?species_id=736 > <http://www.planetcatfish.com/catelog/species.php?species_id=736>> > > > > Of course, the Bristle Nosed grows closer to the 5" range and a couple > > of species from the Ancistrus Genus are commonly called Bristlenose > > Catfish or Bristle Nosed Plecos. The males get the actual bristles on > > their noses whereas the females look "normal". > > http://www.planetcatfish.com/catelog/species.php?species_id=48 > <http://www.planetcatfish.com/catelog/species.php?species_id=48> > > <http://www.planetcatfish.com/catelog/species.php?species_id=48 > <http://www.planetcatfish.com/catelog/species.php?species_id=48>> > > http://www.planetcatfish.com/catelog/species.php?species_id=49 > <http://www.planetcatfish.com/catelog/species.php?species_id=49> > > <http://www.planetcatfish.com/catelog/species.php?species_id=49 > <http://www.planetcatfish.com/catelog/species.php?species_id=49>> > > > > Since all of the "armored catfish" above stay hidden a lot, because > > they like to hang out in/under wood, rocks, etc., and because they are > > typically more active at night, they should not threaten the Angelfish > > as much. If the Angelfish do seem to be a problem when mating, you > > could always put a divider in the tank to give the dwarf pleco one > > third of the tank during these mating periods. > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>> > (Links to any articles referenced in > > above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels > > and also under Archives by Year, Month) > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On Behalf Of Amber Berglund > > Sent: Thursday, July 02, 2009 11:17 PM > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > Subject: [AquaticLife] Any safe tank mates for the Angel's? > > > > Okay is there any safe algae eater that I could put in with my 2 mated > > Angel's in their 55 gallon? > > Or maybe a bottom feeder? I dunno... > > Bigger snails maybe? > > > > Amber > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 41660	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 7/3/2009
Subject: Re: Live food suggestions please

I think the hubby would like that too much ;) LOL I will check it out though. Amber Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > > > If you read that article on The Krib, that \\Steve// posted, you can > actually raise earthworms or redworms indoors and they are clean so they > don't stink. You could even use the space under one of your fish > stands for > a 1' x 2' x 8" deep box. The redworms are supposedly better for indoor > raising as they don't try to escape like earthworms will occasionally do. > > And then you'll always be ready for an impromptu fishing trip too! > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right > side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) > > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On > Behalf Of Amber Berglund > Sent: Friday, July 03, 2009 10:14 AM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Live food suggestions please > > Earthworms don't come out much here, I could find lots of slugs > though, LOL. > I was thinking of maybe small crickets? Or do worms appear tastier to > fish? > LOL I can't remember the kind of worms I bought for my oscars it was ages > ago. It's right on the tip of my fingers but my darn hands don't want to > type it out for me, LOL > > Amber > > bill 1433 wrote: > > > > > > > > Hi \\Steve// ! > > > > Can you refresh my memory here? A long time ago I did this for my > > Oscars but I did something to them first to avoid contamination to the > > aquarium water? Let the worms in plain water for an hour or so? Can't > > remember? > > > > Around here lately kind of blessed, lots of rain, lots of worms! > > > > Bill > > > > --- On Thu, 7/2/09, Steve Szabo <steve@... > <mailto:steve%40familyszabo.com> > > <mailto:steve%40familyszabo.com>> wrote: > > > > > From: Steve Szabo <steve@... > <mailto:steve%40familyszabo.com> > > <mailto:steve%40familyszabo.com>> > > > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Live food suggestions please > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > Date: Thursday, July 2, 2009, 10:04 PM Has the ground thawed up > > > there yet? > > > <g> Try some chopped earthworms. > > > > > > \\Steve// > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] > > > On Behalf Of Amber Berglund > > > Sent: Thursday, July 02, 2009 12:55 PM > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > Subject: [AquaticLife] Live food suggestions please > > > > > > Okay my severum seems mad when I feed him anything other than frozen > > > foods, so I was going to try getting some live foods for him, are > > > there any suggestions to start with that may appear tasty to him? > > > I used to feed my oscars worms and such, but I want something to > > > start with that should appear nice and tasty to him since he hasn't > > > had anything worm like yet ;) LOL. > > > I'd catch ants but they are hard to find up here, and I refuse to > > > pour sugar on my floor in hopes of getting sugar ants, LOL. > > > The LFS sells crickets but I'm not sure how small they are, I'd have > > > to check, he still doesn't have a very big mouth, anything over a > > > sinking pellet seems to be too big for him, although I saw him > > > running around eyeing the baby platy's to see if they'd fit, perhaps > > > they just don't taste good enough? I have at least 10 baby's running > > > around in the 125 gallon tank with what looks to be more coming soon > > > ;) > > > > > > Amber > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 41661	From: bill 1433	Date: 7/3/2009
Subject: Re: Amber, need to know? Rams and incoming fish

No Amber, Its a matter of "coast"! This man is west and ol' bill is east. Air express for the fish would be salest and best but not for bill's buget. I still like to eat regular and this could cut into that a bit. Bill --- On Fri, 7/3/09, Amber Berglund <amber@...> wrote: > From: Amber Berglund <amber@...> > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Amber, need to know? Rams and incoming fish > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Date: Friday, July 3, 2009, 11:15 AM > How is it too far? Were you looking > for someone within driving distance? > Over night shipping with fed ex is really overnight ;) > (even in Alaska). > > Amber > > bill 1433 wrote: > > > > > > > > Long Distance Shopping? > >  > > Hi Amber, > >  > > Check out your seller, too far for me but found > another that is not.  > > To me it just started becoming a money case.  If > your paying high buck > > at the LPS BUT the fish are of poor quality and "your > stuck with what > > you get" type of thing, its time to put your show on > the road! > >  > > Bill > > > > --- On Fri, 7/3/09, Amber Berglund <amber@... > > > <mailto:amber%40rose-fields.com>> wrote: > > > > > From: Amber Berglund <amber@... > > > <mailto:amber%40rose-fields.com>> > > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Amber, need to know? > Rams and incoming fish > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > Date: Friday, July 3, 2009, 12:07 AM > > > Okay so who wants to know what my LFS > > > is selling their German Blue rams > > > for? They are the same size as the ones I > received (about > > > 3/4 of an > > > inch, maybe 1/2 an inch). I bought mine for > 7/each. Got the > > > bleeding > > > hearts for 3 each, and the peppered corys for 3 > each. > > > They are selling them for 15.95... I told the > worker that > > > there was no > > > way I was going to pay that price considering how > much I > > > just got mine > > > for, I don't think I'll be buying fish from my > LFS much at > > > all. Not only > > > did I get them a day earlier than I would have if > I had > > > gone out to my > > > LFS, but they seem nice and healthy AND the > shipper sexed > > > them for me. > > > They also sexed all the bleeding heart tetras > that I got, I > > > didn't ask > > > them to sex the cory's LOL. > > > Oh and speaking of the cory's are starting to > come out and > > > play more, > > > good to see them out, was a little worried at > first but > > > they seem to be > > > settling into the new tank. > > > I definitely want to do another order from them > some day in > > > the future, > > > hopefully not replacing any fish, but you never > know ;) > > > So far all the new fish are doing great, nice and > active > > > and eating > > > well. The bleeding hearts are schooling too. > > > > > > Amber > > > > > > Amber Berglund wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > Best part of my discount is that it even > works for > > > international orders, > > > > I did a price check on getting a box from > bangkok and > > > the price was less > > > > than $40 for international priority, only > thing is > > > that it takes 3-5 > > > > days depending on customs ;) LOL > > > > I almost bought those purple guppy's from > thialand > > > except for the fact > > > > that it takes so long for them to get there, > LOL. > > > > > > > > Amber > > > > > > > > bill 1433 wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Thanks Amber! > > > > > > > > > > I forgot the FedEx discount to you! I > thought > > > that was l-o-w! > > > > > > > > > > Thanks also for the seller info will > check. > > > > > > > > > > Bill > > > > > > > > > > --- On Thu, 7/2/09, Amber Berglund > <amber@... > > > <mailto:amber%40rose-fields.com> > > > > > > > <mailto:amber%40rose-fields.com> > > > > > > <mailto:amber%40rose-fields.com>> > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > From: Amber Berglund <amber@... > > > <mailto:amber%40rose-fields.com> > > > > > > > <mailto:amber%40rose-fields.com> > > > > > > <mailto:amber%40rose-fields.com>> > > > > > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Amber, > need to > > > know? Rams and incoming fish > > > > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > Date: Thursday, July 2, 2009, > 10:48 AM > > > > > > The seller is wetspotcx on > aquabid, > > > > > > contact Grey directly and I'm > sure > > > > > > he would be more than willing to > work with > > > you. They were > > > > > > very > > > > > > reasonable with all my requests, > such as > > > sexing the fish > > > > > > before sending > > > > > > them so I knew I got 3 pairs of > rams not 6 > > > males ;) LOL > > > > > > My shipping is discounted because > I work for > > > fed ex, most > > > > > > shipping for > > > > > > the Lower US is around 50 for > overnight > > > shipping depending > > > > > > on your zip > > > > > > code, just make it a big order and > it'll be > > > worth it. > > > > > > > > > > > > Amber > > > > > > > > > > > > bill 1433 wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I didn't ask Amber???? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >From Where? From Whom? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Need to ask > now---------------I might > > > have to do the > > > > > > same thing! > > > > > > > Details of sale? You liked > the seller? > > > > > > Easy to work with? > > > > > > > Time? From order to delivery? > Cost of > > > > > > shipping was reasonable I > > > > > > > think to what I've seen so > far. Was it > > > right to > > > > > > your door? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Bill > > > > > > > > > > > > > > --- On Wed, 7/1/09, Amber > Berglund > > > <amber@... > <mailto:amber%40rose-fields.com> > > > > > > > <mailto:amber%40rose-fields.com> > > > > > <mailto:amber%40rose-fields.com> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > <mailto:amber%40rose-fields.com>> > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > From: Amber Berglund <amber@... > > > <mailto:amber%40rose-fields.com> > > > > > > > <mailto:amber%40rose-fields.com> > > > > > <mailto:amber%40rose-fields.com> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > <mailto:amber%40rose-fields.com>> > > > > > > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] > Rams and > > > incoming fish > > > > > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > Date: Wednesday, July 1, > 2009, 10:05 > > > PM > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Oh, and just so I can make > everyone > > > jealous, it cost > > > > > > me $19 dollars for > > > > > > > overnight shipping here to > Alaska for > > > my 6 lbs of fish > > > > > > ;) > > > > > > > *runs and hides now* > > > > > > > I bet if I do the math it'll > be cheaper > > > than it would > > > > > > have been if I > > > > > > > shopped from my LFS, how sad > is that? > > > > > > > 78+19=$97 for the fish > > > > > > > 5 peppered cory's, sell for > about 6-7 > > > at my LFS > > > > > > > 6 bleeding heart tetras, sell > for about > > > 7 at my LFS > > > > > > > 6 german blue ram's, sell for > over 10 > > > at my LFS > > > > > > > I think I'm going to boycot > the LFS ;) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Amber > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Amber Berglund wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > The Rams seemed to be > the > > > healthiest of all the > > > > > > fish, they are active > > > > > > > > and already searching > for food. > > > The bleeding > > > > > > hearts seemed a bit shaken > > > > > > > > up, but they're eating > now too. > > > The cory's are > > > > > > hiding, I think they > > > > > > > > didn't like their trip > ;) > > > > > > > > I love the rams, tiny > little guys > > > must be just > > > > > > barely sexually mature, > > > > > > > > it's cute to watch them > doing > > > their pairing up > > > > > > dances. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Amber > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Lenny V. aka GoldLenny > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I'd put them in the > 10G and > > > just do 2X or > > > > > > 3X/week PWC's... or more > > > > > > > > > often if > > > > > > > > > you can find the > time. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Normally, one > shouldn't keep > > > more than ten > > > > > > 1" fish (or five 2" fish or > > > > > > > > > three > > > > > > > > > 3" fish) in a 10G > tank but > > > that is for long > > > > > > term purposes. For the > > > > > > > > > purposes > > > > > > > > > of Q-tanks and > H-tanks, these > > > stocking > > > > > > guidelines can be relaxed as > > > > > > > > > long as > > > > > > > > > the fish keeper > does proper > > > maintenance on > > > > > > the tank during their stay. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > > > > > > > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>> > > > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>>> > > > > > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>> > > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>>>> > > > > > > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>> > > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>>> > > > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>> > > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>>>>> > > > > > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>> > > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>>> > > > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>> > > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>>>> > > > > > > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>> > > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>>> > > > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>> > > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>>>>>> > > > > > > > > > (Links to any > articles > > > referenced in above > > > > > > reply are listed on the > > > > > > > right > > > > > > > > > side, > alphabetically under > > > Labels and also > > > > > > under Archives by Year, > > > > > > > > Month) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -----Original > Message----- > > > > > > > > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > > > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On > > > > > > > > > Behalf Of Amber > Berglund > > > > > > > > > Sent: Wednesday, > July 01, > > > 2009 4:12 PM > > > > > > > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > > > Subject: Re: > [AquaticLife] > > > Rams and incoming > > > > > > fish > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Aww, the bleeding > hearts are > > > tiny! LOL, my > > > > > > males are going to be in > > > > > > > > heaven > > > > > > > > > with their 6 little > females > > > ;) LOL They all > > > > > > look small, less than an > > > > > > > > > inch in > > > > > > > > > size. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Amber > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Amber Berglund > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I got 16 fish, > they > > > should all be > > > > > > small, lemme open the box and > look > > > > > > > > > > to see how > many made it > > > ;) LOL > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Amber > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Lenny V. aka > GoldLenny > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > How many > fish did > > > you get in and > > > > > > how big? The problem with > > > > > > > using the > > > > > > > > > > > 55G newly > set up > > > Walstad tank as a > > > > > > Q-tank is that if something > > > > > > > > > > > should > go > > > > > > > > > > wrong > > > > > > > > > > > and you > have to > > > treat the fish, > > > > > > you may end up having to break > > > > > > > down > > > > > > > > > > > that > tank > > > afterwards. A Q-tank is > > > > > > best kept very simple so that it > > > > > > > > > > > can be > sterilized > > > afterwards. Run > > > > > > to Wal-Mart and buy one or more > > > > > > > > > > > new 10G > tanks or > > > use the Sterilite > > > > > > clear plastic tubs, > > > > > > > possibly only > > > > > > > > > > > one that > is large > > > enough for all > > > > > > the fish, but I wouldn't use the > > > > > > > > > > > 55G newly > setup > > > Walstad > > > > > > > > > > substrate > > > > > > > > > > > tank. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Lenny > Vasbinder > > > > > > > > > > > Fish Blog > - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>> > > > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>>> > > > > > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>> > > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > 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<http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>>> > > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>> > > > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>>>> > > > > > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>> > > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>>> > > > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>> > > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>>>>> > > > > > > > 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<http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>> > > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>>> > > > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>> > > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>>>>>> > > > > > > > > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>> > > > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>>> > > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>> > > > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>>>> > > > > > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>> > > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>>> > > > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>> > > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>>>>> > > > > > > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>> > > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>>> > > > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>> > > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>>>> > > > > > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>> > > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>>> > > > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>> > > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>>>>>>>> > > > > > > > > > > > (Links to > any > > > articles referenced > > > > > > in above reply are listed on the > > > > > > > > > > > right > side, > > > alphabetically under > > > > > > Labels and also under Archives by > > > > > > > > > > > Year, > > > > > > > > > > Month) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -----Original > > > Message----- > > > > > > > > > > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > > > > > > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On > Behalf Of > > > > > > Amber > > > > > > > Berglund > > > > > > > > > > > Sent: > Wednesday, > > > July 01, 2009 > > > > > > 1:23 PM > > > > > > > > > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > > > > > Subject: > > > [AquaticLife] Rams and > > > > > > incoming fish > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I have > too many > > > fish to put into a > > > > > > 10 gallon for quarantine as I > > > > > > > > > > > made a > large fish > > > order should I > > > > > > go ahead and use the 55 > > > > > > > gallon that > > > > > > > > > > > I set up > this > > > weekend as a walstad > > > > > > tank? The cycled media is still > > > > > > > > > > > in > another > > > > > > > > > > filter and > > > > > > > > > > > the tank > is only > > > lightly planted > > > > > > until my plant order arrives this > > > > > > > > > > week. I > > > > > > > > > > > could go > see what > > > the lfs has left > > > > > > in stock but it was pretty bare > > > > > > > > > > > for > plants last > > > weekend because > > > > > > they didn't put in a plant order. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I think > I'm going > > > to stick to > > > > > > aquabid for my fish and plants > from > > > > > > > > > > now on. > > > > > > > > > > > For the > first time > > > I will know > > > > > > what I am planting in the tank > lol. > > > > > > > > > > > Can't > wait for my 3 > > > pairs of > > > > > > german blue rams. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Oh and > bill the > > > blue ones with > > > > > > pink belly's are the females. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Amber > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ------------------------------------ > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Please, DELETE this line and > EVERYTHING > > > below it when > > > > > > replying, Thank You. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> > > > > > > ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , > > > .·´¯`·..><((((º> > > > > > > > PLEASE, when you REPLY to a > post, > > > DELETE all TEXT that > > > > > > is NOT > > > > > > > important to the reply & > if > > > CHANGING the TOPIC of > > > > > > the original message > > > > > > > MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> > i.e. "new > > > subject (was > > > > > > re: old subject)" <- > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. > > > > > > , > > > .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. > > > > > > > We Thank You in Advance for > Your HELP > > > in this matter. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > If you do not want all of the > groups > > > emails, instead > > > > > > of unsubscribing, > > > > > > > you can change your delivery > option by > > > clicking on > > > > > > "Edit My > > > > > > > Membership" on the home > page. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com > > > <mailto:aquaticlife-digest%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > > <mailto:aquaticlife-digest%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > > > <mailto:aquaticlife-digest%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > <mailto:aquaticlife-digest%40yahoogroups.com> to > > > > > > receive the digest, > > > > > > > which includes up to 25 posts > at a time > > > in a single > > > > > > email > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com > > > <mailto:aquaticlife-nomail%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > > <mailto:aquaticlife-nomail%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > > > <mailto:aquaticlife-nomail%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > <mailto:aquaticlife-nomail%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > for the No E-Mail option > > > > > > > where you will still be able > to read > > > messages on the > > > > > > group and post > > > > > > > replies. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com > > > <mailto:aquaticlife-normal%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > > <mailto:aquaticlife-normal%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > > > <mailto:aquaticlife-normal%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > <mailto:aquaticlife-normal%40yahoogroups.com> to > > > > > > receive individual > > > > > > > e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ------------------------------------ > > > > > > > > > > > > Please, DELETE this line and > EVERYTHING > > > below it when > > > > > > replying, Thank You. > > > > > > > > > > ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> > > > > > > ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , > > > .·´¯`·..><((((º> > > > > > > PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, > DELETE all > > > TEXT that is > > > > > > NOT important to the reply & > if CHANGING > > > the TOPIC of > > > > > > the original message MODIFY the > SUBJECT LINE > > > -> i.e. "new > > > > > > subject (was re: old subject)" > <- > > > > > > > > > > <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. > > > > > > , > > > .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. > > > > > > We Thank You in Advance for Your > HELP in > > > this matter. > > > > > > > > > > > > If you do not want all of the > groups emails, > > > instead of > > > > > > unsubscribing, you can change your > delivery > > > option by > > > > > > clicking on "Edit My Membership" > on the home > > > page. > > > > > > > > > > > > Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com > > > <mailto:aquaticlife-digest%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > > <mailto:aquaticlife-digest%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > > > <mailto:aquaticlife-digest%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > to receive the digest, which > includes up to > > > 25 posts at a > > > > > > time in a single email > > > > > > > > > > > > Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com > > > <mailto:aquaticlife-nomail%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > > <mailto:aquaticlife-nomail%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > > > <mailto:aquaticlife-nomail%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > for the No E-Mail option where you > will > > > still be able to > > > > > > read messages on the group and > post > > > replies. > > > > > > > > > > > > Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com > > > <mailto:aquaticlife-normal%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > > <mailto:aquaticlife-normal%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > > > <mailto:aquaticlife-normal%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > to receive individual > e-mails.Yahoo! Groups > > > Links > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > mailto:AquaticLife-fullfeatured@yahoogroups.com > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife-fullfeatured%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife-fullfeatured%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife-fullfeatured%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ------------------------------------ > > > > > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it > when > > > replying, Thank You. > > > > ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> > > > ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , > .·´¯`·..><((((º> > > > PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT > that is > > > NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the > TOPIC of > > > the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE > -> i.e. "new > > > subject (was re: old subject)" <- > > > > <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. > > > , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. > > > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this > matter. > > > > > > If you do not want all of the groups emails, > instead of > > > unsubscribing, you can change your delivery > option by > > > clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the home > page. > > > > > > Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com > > > <mailto:aquaticlife-digest%40yahoogroups.com> > > > to receive the digest, which includes up to 25 > posts at a > > > time in a single email > > > > > > Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com > > > <mailto:aquaticlife-nomail%40yahoogroups.com> > > > for the No E-Mail option where you will still be > able to > > > read messages on the group and post replies. > > > > > > Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com > > > <mailto:aquaticlife-normal%40yahoogroups.com> > > > to receive individual e-mails.Yahoo! Groups > Links > > > > > > > > >     mailto:AquaticLife-fullfeatured@yahoogroups.com > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife-fullfeatured%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ------------------------------------ > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when > replying, Thank You. > ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> > ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> > PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is > NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of > the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new > subject (was re: old subject)" <- > <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. > , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. > > If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of > unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by > clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the home page.  > > Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com > to receive the digest, which includes up to 25 posts at a > time in a single email > > Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com > for the No E-Mail option where you will still be able to > read messages on the group and post replies. > > Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com > to receive individual e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links > > >     mailto:AquaticLife-fullfeatured@yahoogroups.com > > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 41662	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 7/3/2009
Subject: Re: Amber, need to know? Rams and incoming fish

Ahh I see then, You could always save up and have them Fed ex overnight the fish to you, that way it's worth the $50-60 for shipping. Amber bill 1433 wrote: > > > > No Amber, > > Its a matter of "coast"! This man is west and ol' bill is east. Air > express for the fish would be salest and best but not for bill's > buget. I still like to eat regular and this could cut into that a bit. > > Bill > > --- On Fri, 7/3/09, Amber Berglund <amber@... > <mailto:amber%40rose-fields.com>> wrote: > > > From: Amber Berglund <amber@... > <mailto:amber%40rose-fields.com>> > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Amber, need to know? Rams and incoming fish > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > Date: Friday, July 3, 2009, 11:15 AM > > How is it too far? Were you looking > > for someone within driving distance? > > Over night shipping with fed ex is really overnight ;) > > (even in Alaska). > > > > Amber > > > > bill 1433 wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > Long Distance Shopping? > > > > > > Hi Amber, > > > > > > Check out your seller, too far for me but found > > another that is not. > > > To me it just started becoming a money case. If > > your paying high buck > > > at the LPS BUT the fish are of poor quality and "your > > stuck with what > > > you get" type of thing, its time to put your show on > > the road! > > > > > > Bill > > > > > > --- On Fri, 7/3/09, Amber Berglund <amber@... > <mailto:amber%40rose-fields.com> > > > > > <mailto:amber%40rose-fields.com>> wrote: > > > > > > > From: Amber Berglund <amber@... > <mailto:amber%40rose-fields.com> > > > > > <mailto:amber%40rose-fields.com>> > > > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Amber, need to know? > > Rams and incoming fish > > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > Date: Friday, July 3, 2009, 12:07 AM > > > > Okay so who wants to know what my LFS > > > > is selling their German Blue rams > > > > for? They are the same size as the ones I > > received (about > > > > 3/4 of an > > > > inch, maybe 1/2 an inch). I bought mine for > > 7/each. Got the > > > > bleeding > > > > hearts for 3 each, and the peppered corys for 3 > > each. > > > > They are selling them for 15.95... I told the > > worker that > > > > there was no > > > > way I was going to pay that price considering how > > much I > > > > just got mine > > > > for, I don't think I'll be buying fish from my > > LFS much at > > > > all. Not only > > > > did I get them a day earlier than I would have if > > I had > > > > gone out to my > > > > LFS, but they seem nice and healthy AND the > > shipper sexed > > > > them for me. > > > > They also sexed all the bleeding heart tetras > > that I got, I > > > > didn't ask > > > > them to sex the cory's LOL. > > > > Oh and speaking of the cory's are starting to > > come out and > > > > play more, > > > > good to see them out, was a little worried at > > first but > > > > they seem to be > > > > settling into the new tank. > > > > I definitely want to do another order from them > > some day in > > > > the future, > > > > hopefully not replacing any fish, but you never > > know ;) > > > > So far all the new fish are doing great, nice and > > active > > > > and eating > > > > well. The bleeding hearts are schooling too. > > > > > > > > Amber > > > > > > > > Amber Berglund wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Best part of my discount is that it even > > works for > > > > international orders, > > > > > I did a price check on getting a box from > > bangkok and > > > > the price was less > > > > > than $40 for international priority, only > > thing is > > > > that it takes 3-5 > > > > > days depending on customs ;) LOL > > > > > I almost bought those purple guppy's from > > thialand > > > > except for the fact > > > > > that it takes so long for them to get there, > > LOL. > > > > > > > > > > Amber > > > > > > > > > > bill 1433 wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Thanks Amber! > > > > > > > > > > > > I forgot the FedEx discount to you! I > > thought > > > > that was l-o-w! > > > > > > > > > > > > Thanks also for the seller info will > > check. > > > > > > > > > > > > Bill > > > > > > > > > > > > --- On Thu, 7/2/09, Amber Berglund > > <amber@... <mailto:amber%40rose-fields.com> > > > > > <mailto:amber%40rose-fields.com> > > > > > > > > > <mailto:amber%40rose-fields.com> > > > > > > > > <mailto:amber%40rose-fields.com>> > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > From: Amber Berglund <amber@... > <mailto:amber%40rose-fields.com> > > > > > <mailto:amber%40rose-fields.com> > > > > > > > > > <mailto:amber%40rose-fields.com> > > > > > > > > <mailto:amber%40rose-fields.com>> > > > > > > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Amber, > > need to > > > > know? Rams and incoming fish > > > > > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > Date: Thursday, July 2, 2009, > > 10:48 AM > > > > > > > The seller is wetspotcx on > > aquabid, > > > > > > > contact Grey directly and I'm > > sure > > > > > > > he would be more than willing to > > work with > > > > you. They were > > > > > > > very > > > > > > > reasonable with all my requests, > > such as > > > > sexing the fish > > > > > > > before sending > > > > > > > them so I knew I got 3 pairs of > > rams not 6 > > > > males ;) LOL > > > > > > > My shipping is discounted because > > I work for > > > > fed ex, most > > > > > > > shipping for > > > > > > > the Lower US is around 50 for > > overnight > > > > shipping depending > > > > > > > on your zip > > > > > > > code, just make it a big order and > > it'll be > > > > worth it. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Amber > > > > > > > > > > > > > > bill 1433 wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I didn't ask Amber???? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >From Where? From Whom? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Need to ask > > now---------------I might > > > > have to do the > > > > > > > same thing! > > > > > > > > Details of sale? You liked > > the seller? > > > > > > > Easy to work with? > > > > > > > > Time? From order to delivery? > > Cost of > > > > > > > shipping was reasonable I > > > > > > > > think to what I've seen so > > far. Was it > > > > right to > > > > > > > your door? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Bill > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > --- On Wed, 7/1/09, Amber > > Berglund > > > > <amber@... <mailto:amber%40rose-fields.com> > > <mailto:amber%40rose-fields.com> > > > > > > > > > <mailto:amber%40rose-fields.com> > > > > > > <mailto:amber%40rose-fields.com> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > <mailto:amber%40rose-fields.com>> > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > From: Amber Berglund <amber@... > <mailto:amber%40rose-fields.com> > > > > > <mailto:amber%40rose-fields.com> > > > > > > > > > <mailto:amber%40rose-fields.com> > > > > > > <mailto:amber%40rose-fields.com> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > <mailto:amber%40rose-fields.com>> > > > > > > > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] > > Rams and > > > > incoming fish > > > > > > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > > Date: Wednesday, July 1, > > 2009, 10:05 > > > > PM > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Oh, and just so I can make > > everyone > > > > jealous, it cost > > > > > > > me $19 dollars for > > > > > > > > overnight shipping here to > > Alaska for > > > > my 6 lbs of fish > > > > > > > ;) > > > > > > > > *runs and hides now* > > > > > > > > I bet if I do the math it'll > > be cheaper > > > > than it would > > > > > > > have been if I > > > > > > > > shopped from my LFS, how sad > > is that? > > > > > > > > 78+19=$97 for the fish > > > > > > > > 5 peppered cory's, sell for > > about 6-7 > > > > at my LFS > > > > > > > > 6 bleeding heart tetras, sell > > for about > > > > 7 at my LFS > > > > > > > > 6 german blue ram's, sell for > > over 10 > > > > at my LFS > > > > > > > > I think I'm going to boycot > > the LFS ;) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Amber > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Amber Berglund wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > The Rams seemed to be > > the > > > > healthiest of all the > > > > > > > fish, they are active > > > > > > > > > and already searching > > for food. > > > > The bleeding > > > > > > > hearts seemed a bit shaken > > > > > > > > > up, but they're eating > > now too. > > > > The cory's are > > > > > > > hiding, I think they > > > > > > > > > didn't like their trip > > ;) > > > > > > > > > I love the rams, tiny > > little guys > > > > must be just > > > > > > > barely sexually mature, > > > > > > > > > it's cute to watch them > > doing > > > > their pairing up > > > > > > > dances. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Amber > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Lenny V. aka GoldLenny > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I'd put them in the > > 10G and > > > > just do 2X or > > > > > > > 3X/week PWC's... or more > > > > > > > > > > often if > > > > > > > > > > you can find the > > time. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Normally, one > > shouldn't keep > > > > more than ten > > > > > > > 1" fish (or five 2" fish or > > > > > > > > > > three > > > > > > > > > > 3" fish) in a 10G > > tank but > > > > that is for long > > > > > > > term purposes. For the > > > > > > > > > > purposes > > > > > > > > > > of Q-tanks and > > H-tanks, these > > > > stocking > > > > > > > guidelines can be relaxed as > > > > > > > > > > long as > > > > > > > > > > the fish keeper > > does proper > > > > maintenance on > > > > > > > the tank during their stay. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > > > > > > > > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>> > > > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>>> > > > > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>> > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>>>> > > > > > > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>>> > > > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>> > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>>>>> > > > > > > > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>>> > > > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>> > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com 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referenced in above > > > > > > > reply are listed on the > > > > > > > > right > > > > > > > > > > side, > > alphabetically under > > > > Labels and also > > > > > > > under Archives by Year, > > > > > > > > > Month) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -----Original > > Message----- > > > > > > > > > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > > > > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On > > > > > > > > > > Behalf Of Amber > > Berglund > > > > > > > > > > Sent: Wednesday, > > July 01, > > > > 2009 4:12 PM > > > > > > > > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > > > > Subject: Re: > > [AquaticLife] > > > > Rams and incoming > > > > > > > fish > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Aww, the bleeding > > hearts are > > > > tiny! LOL, my > > > > > > > males are going to be in > > > > > > > > > heaven > > > > > > > > > > with their 6 little > > females > > > > ;) LOL They all > > > > > > > look small, less than an > > > > > > > > > > inch in > > > > > > > > > > size. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Amber > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Amber Berglund > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I got 16 fish, > > they > > > > should all be > > > > > > > small, lemme open the box and > > look > > > > > > > > > > > to see how > > many made it > > > > ;) LOL > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Amber > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Lenny V. aka > > GoldLenny > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > How many > > fish did > > > > you get in and > > > > > > > how big? The problem with > > > > > > > > using the > > > > > > > > > > > > 55G newly > > set up > > > > Walstad tank as a > > > > > > > Q-tank is that if something > > > > > > > > > > > > should > > go > > > > > > > > > > > wrong > > > > > > > > > > > > and you > > have to > > > > treat the fish, > > > > > > > you may end up having to break > > > > > > > > down > > > > > > > > > > > > that > > tank > > > > afterwards. A Q-tank is > > > > > > > best kept very simple so that it > > > > > > > > > > > > can be > > sterilized > > > > afterwards. Run > > > > > > > to Wal-Mart and buy one or more > > > > > > > > > > > > new 10G > > tanks or > > > > use the Sterilite > > > > > > > clear plastic tubs, > > > > > > > > possibly only > > > > > > > > > > > > one that > > is large > > > > enough for all > > > > > > > the fish, but I wouldn't use the > > > > > > > > > > > > 55G newly > > setup > > > > Walstad > > > > > > > > > > > substrate > > > > > > > > > > > > tank. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Lenny > > Vasbinder > > > > > > > > > > > > Fish Blog > > - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>> > > > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>>> > > > > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>> > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com 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<http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>> > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>>> > > > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>> > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>>>>>> > > > > > > > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>>> > > > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>> > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>>>> > > > > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>> > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>>> > > > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>> > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>>>>> > > > > > > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>>> > > > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>> > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>>>> > > > > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>> > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>>> > > > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>> > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>>>>>>>>> > > > > > > > > > > > > (Links to > > any > > > > articles referenced > > > > > > > in above reply are listed on the > > > > > > > > > > > > right > > side, > > > > alphabetically under > > > > > > > Labels and also under Archives by > > > > > > > > > > > > Year, > > > > > > > > > > > Month) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -----Original > > > > Message----- > > > > > > > > > > > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On > > Behalf Of > > > > > > > Amber > > > > > > > > Berglund > > > > > > > > > > > > Sent: > > Wednesday, > > > > July 01, 2009 > > > > > > > 1:23 PM > > > > > > > > > > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > > > > > > Subject: > > > > [AquaticLife] Rams and > > > > > > > incoming fish > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I have > > too many > > > > fish to put into a > > > > > > > 10 gallon for quarantine as I > > > > > > > > > > > > made a > > large fish > > > > order should I > > > > > > > go ahead and use the 55 > > > > > > > > gallon that > > > > > > > > > > > > I set up > > this > > > > weekend as a walstad > > > > > > > tank? The cycled media is still > > > > > > > > > > > > in > > another > > > > > > > > > > > filter and > > > > > > > > > > > > the tank > > is only > > > > lightly planted > > > > > > > until my plant order arrives this > > > > > > > > > > > week. I > > > > > > > > > > > > could go > > see what > > > > the lfs has left > > > > > > > in stock but it was pretty bare > > > > > > > > > > > > for > > plants last > > > > weekend because > > > > > > > they didn't put in a plant order. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I think > > I'm going > > > > to stick to > > > > > > > aquabid for my fish and plants > > from > > > > > > > > > > > now on. > > > > > > > > > > > > For the > > first time > > > > I will know > > > > > > > what I am planting in the tank > > lol. > > > > > > > > > > > > Can't > > wait for my 3 > > > > pairs of > > > > > > > german blue rams. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Oh and > > bill the > > > > blue ones with > > > > > > > pink belly's are the females. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Amber > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ------------------------------------ > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Please, DELETE this line and > > EVERYTHING > > > > below it when > > > > > > > replying, Thank You. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> > > > > > > > ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , > > > > .·´¯`·..><((((º> > > > > > > > > PLEASE, when you REPLY to a > > post, > > > > DELETE all TEXT that > > > > > > > is NOT > > > > > > > > important to the reply & > > if > > > > CHANGING the TOPIC of > > > > > > > the original message > > > > > > > > MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> > > i.e. "new > > > > subject (was > > > > > > > re: old subject)" <- > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. > > > > > > > , > > > > .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. > > > > > > > > We Thank You in Advance for > > Your HELP > > > > in this matter. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > If you do not want all of the > > groups > > > > emails, instead > > > > > > > of unsubscribing, > > > > > > > > you can change your delivery > > option by > > > > clicking on > > > > > > > "Edit My > > > > > > > > Membership" on the home > > page. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:aquaticlife-digest%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > <mailto:aquaticlife-digest%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > > > > > <mailto:aquaticlife-digest%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > > > > > > <mailto:aquaticlife-digest%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > <mailto:aquaticlife-digest%40yahoogroups.com> to > > > > > > > receive the digest, > > > > > > > > which includes up to 25 posts > > at a time > > > > in a single > > > > > > > email > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:aquaticlife-nomail%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > <mailto:aquaticlife-nomail%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > > > > > <mailto:aquaticlife-nomail%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > > > > > > <mailto:aquaticlife-nomail%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > <mailto:aquaticlife-nomail%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > for the No E-Mail option > > > > > > > > where you will still be able > > to read > > > > messages on the > > > > > > > group and post > > > > > > > > replies. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:aquaticlife-normal%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > <mailto:aquaticlife-normal%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > > > > > <mailto:aquaticlife-normal%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > > > > > > <mailto:aquaticlife-normal%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > <mailto:aquaticlife-normal%40yahoogroups.com> to > > > > > > > receive individual > > > > > > > > e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ------------------------------------ > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Please, DELETE this line and > > EVERYTHING > > > > below it when > > > > > > > replying, Thank You. > > > > > > > > > > > > > ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> > > > > > > > ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , > > > > .·´¯`·..><((((º> > > > > > > > PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, > > DELETE all > > > > TEXT that is > > > > > > > NOT important to the reply & > > if CHANGING > > > > the TOPIC of > > > > > > > the original message MODIFY the > > SUBJECT LINE > > > > -> i.e. "new > > > > > > > subject (was re: old subject)" > > <- > > > > > > > > > > > > > <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. > > > > > > > , > > > > .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. > > > > > > > We Thank You in Advance for Your > > HELP in > > > > this matter. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > If you do not want all of the > > groups emails, > > > > instead of > > > > > > > unsubscribing, you can change your > > delivery > > > > option by > > > > > > > clicking on "Edit My Membership" > > on the home > > > > page. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:aquaticlife-digest%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > <mailto:aquaticlife-digest%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > > > > > <mailto:aquaticlife-digest%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > > > > > > <mailto:aquaticlife-digest%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > to receive the digest, which > > includes up to > > > > 25 posts at a > > > > > > > time in a single email > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:aquaticlife-nomail%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > <mailto:aquaticlife-nomail%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > > > > > <mailto:aquaticlife-nomail%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > > > > > > <mailto:aquaticlife-nomail%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > for the No E-Mail option where you > > will > > > > still be able to > > > > > > > read messages on the group and > > post > > > > replies. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:aquaticlife-normal%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > <mailto:aquaticlife-normal%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > > > > > <mailto:aquaticlife-normal%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > > > > > > <mailto:aquaticlife-normal%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > to receive individual > > e-mails.Yahoo! Groups > > > > Links > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > mailto:AquaticLife-fullfeatured@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife-fullfeatured%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife-fullfeatured%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife-fullfeatured%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife-fullfeatured%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ------------------------------------ > > > > > > > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it > > when > > > > replying, Thank You. > > > > > > ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> > > > > ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , > > .·´¯`·..><((((º> > > > > PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT > > that is > > > > NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the > > TOPIC of > > > > the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE > > -> i.e. "new > > > > subject (was re: old subject)" <- > > > > > > <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. > > > > , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. > > > > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this > > matter. > > > > > > > > If you do not want all of the groups emails, > > instead of > > > > unsubscribing, you can change your delivery > > option by > > > > clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the home > > page. > > > > > > > > Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:aquaticlife-digest%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > <mailto:aquaticlife-digest%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > to receive the digest, which includes up to 25 > > posts at a > > > > time in a single email > > > > > > > > Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:aquaticlife-nomail%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > <mailto:aquaticlife-nomail%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > for the No E-Mail option where you will still be > > able to > > > > read messages on the group and post replies. > > > > > > > > Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:aquaticlife-normal%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > <mailto:aquaticlife-normal%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > to receive individual e-mails.Yahoo! Groups > > Links > > > > > > > > > > > > mailto:AquaticLife-fullfeatured@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife-fullfeatured%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife-fullfeatured%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ------------------------------------ > > > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when > > replying, Thank You. > > ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> > > ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> > > PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is > > NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of > > the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new > > subject (was re: old subject)" <- > > <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. > > , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. > > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. > > > > If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of > > unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by > > clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the home page. > > > > Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:aquaticlife-digest%40yahoogroups.com> > > to receive the digest, which includes up to 25 posts at a > > time in a single email > > > > Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:aquaticlife-nomail%40yahoogroups.com> > > for the No E-Mail option where you will still be able to > > read messages on the group and post replies. > > > > Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:aquaticlife-normal%40yahoogroups.com> > > to receive individual e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > mailto:AquaticLife-fullfeatured@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife-fullfeatured%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 41663	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 7/3/2009
Subject: Re: Amber, need to know? Rams and incoming fish

Oh I meant to say, "save up and make a large fish order"... LOL Amber Amber Berglund wrote: > > > Ahh I see then, You could always save up and have them Fed ex overnight > the fish to you, that way it's worth the $50-60 for shipping. > > Amber > > bill 1433 wrote: > > > > > > > > No Amber, > > > > Its a matter of "coast"! This man is west and ol' bill is east. Air > > express for the fish would be salest and best but not for bill's > > buget. I still like to eat regular and this could cut into that a bit. > > > > Bill > > > > --- On Fri, 7/3/09, Amber Berglund <amber@... > <mailto:amber%40rose-fields.com> > > <mailto:amber%40rose-fields.com>> wrote: > > > > > From: Amber Berglund <amber@... > <mailto:amber%40rose-fields.com> > > <mailto:amber%40rose-fields.com>> > > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Amber, need to know? Rams and incoming fish > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > Date: Friday, July 3, 2009, 11:15 AM > > > How is it too far? Were you looking > > > for someone within driving distance? > > > Over night shipping with fed ex is really overnight ;) > > > (even in Alaska). > > > > > > Amber > > > > > > bill 1433 wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Long Distance Shopping? > > > > > > > > Hi Amber, > > > > > > > > Check out your seller, too far for me but found > > > another that is not. > > > > To me it just started becoming a money case. If > > > your paying high buck > > > > at the LPS BUT the fish are of poor quality and "your > > > stuck with what > > > > you get" type of thing, its time to put your show on > > > the road! > > > > > > > > Bill > > > > > > > > --- On Fri, 7/3/09, Amber Berglund <amber@... > <mailto:amber%40rose-fields.com> > > <mailto:amber%40rose-fields.com> > > > > > > > <mailto:amber%40rose-fields.com>> wrote: > > > > > > > > > From: Amber Berglund <amber@... > <mailto:amber%40rose-fields.com> > > <mailto:amber%40rose-fields.com> > > > > > > > <mailto:amber%40rose-fields.com>> > > > > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Amber, need to know? > > > Rams and incoming fish > > > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > Date: Friday, July 3, 2009, 12:07 AM > > > > > Okay so who wants to know what my LFS > > > > > is selling their German Blue rams > > > > > for? They are the same size as the ones I > > > received (about > > > > > 3/4 of an > > > > > inch, maybe 1/2 an inch). I bought mine for > > > 7/each. Got the > > > > > bleeding > > > > > hearts for 3 each, and the peppered corys for 3 > > > each. > > > > > They are selling them for 15.95... I told the > > > worker that > > > > > there was no > > > > > way I was going to pay that price considering how > > > much I > > > > > just got mine > > > > > for, I don't think I'll be buying fish from my > > > LFS much at > > > > > all. Not only > > > > > did I get them a day earlier than I would have if > > > I had > > > > > gone out to my > > > > > LFS, but they seem nice and healthy AND the > > > shipper sexed > > > > > them for me. > > > > > They also sexed all the bleeding heart tetras > > > that I got, I > > > > > didn't ask > > > > > them to sex the cory's LOL. > > > > > Oh and speaking of the cory's are starting to > > > come out and > > > > > play more, > > > > > good to see them out, was a little worried at > > > first but > > > > > they seem to be > > > > > settling into the new tank. > > > > > I definitely want to do another order from them > > > some day in > > > > > the future, > > > > > hopefully not replacing any fish, but you never > > > know ;) > > > > > So far all the new fish are doing great, nice and > > > active > > > > > and eating > > > > > well. The bleeding hearts are schooling too. > > > > > > > > > > Amber > > > > > > > > > > Amber Berglund wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Best part of my discount is that it even > > > works for > > > > > international orders, > > > > > > I did a price check on getting a box from > > > bangkok and > > > > > the price was less > > > > > > than $40 for international priority, only > > > thing is > > > > > that it takes 3-5 > > > > > > days depending on customs ;) LOL > > > > > > I almost bought those purple guppy's from > > > thialand > > > > > except for the fact > > > > > > that it takes so long for them to get there, > > > LOL. > > > > > > > > > > > > Amber > > > > > > > > > > > > bill 1433 wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Thanks Amber! > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I forgot the FedEx discount to you! I > > > thought > > > > > that was l-o-w! > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Thanks also for the seller info will > > > check. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Bill > > > > > > > > > > > > > > --- On Thu, 7/2/09, Amber Berglund > > > <amber@... <mailto:amber%40rose-fields.com> > <mailto:amber%40rose-fields.com> > > > > > > > <mailto:amber%40rose-fields.com> > > > > > > > > > > > <mailto:amber%40rose-fields.com> > > > > > > > > > > <mailto:amber%40rose-fields.com>> > > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > From: Amber Berglund <amber@... > <mailto:amber%40rose-fields.com> > > <mailto:amber%40rose-fields.com> > > > > > > > <mailto:amber%40rose-fields.com> > > > > > > > > > > > <mailto:amber%40rose-fields.com> > > > > > > > > > > <mailto:amber%40rose-fields.com>> > > > > > > > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Amber, > > > need to > > > > > know? Rams and incoming fish > > > > > > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > > Date: Thursday, July 2, 2009, > > > 10:48 AM > > > > > > > > The seller is wetspotcx on > > > aquabid, > > > > > > > > contact Grey directly and I'm > > > sure > > > > > > > > he would be more than willing to > > > work with > > > > > you. They were > > > > > > > > very > > > > > > > > reasonable with all my requests, > > > such as > > > > > sexing the fish > > > > > > > > before sending > > > > > > > > them so I knew I got 3 pairs of > > > rams not 6 > > > > > males ;) LOL > > > > > > > > My shipping is discounted because > > > I work for > > > > > fed ex, most > > > > > > > > shipping for > > > > > > > > the Lower US is around 50 for > > > overnight > > > > > shipping depending > > > > > > > > on your zip > > > > > > > > code, just make it a big order and > > > it'll be > > > > > worth it. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Amber > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > bill 1433 wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I didn't ask Amber???? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >From Where? From Whom? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Need to ask > > > now---------------I might > > > > > have to do the > > > > > > > > same thing! > > > > > > > > > Details of sale? You liked > > > the seller? > > > > > > > > Easy to work with? > > > > > > > > > Time? From order to delivery? > > > Cost of > > > > > > > > shipping was reasonable I > > > > > > > > > think to what I've seen so > > > far. Was it > > > > > right to > > > > > > > > your door? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Bill > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > --- On Wed, 7/1/09, Amber > > > Berglund > > > > > <amber@... <mailto:amber%40rose-fields.com> > <mailto:amber%40rose-fields.com> > > > <mailto:amber%40rose-fields.com> > > > > > > > > > > > <mailto:amber%40rose-fields.com> > > > > > > > <mailto:amber%40rose-fields.com> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > <mailto:amber%40rose-fields.com>> > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > From: Amber Berglund <amber@... > <mailto:amber%40rose-fields.com> > > <mailto:amber%40rose-fields.com> > > > > > > > <mailto:amber%40rose-fields.com> > > > > > > > > > > > <mailto:amber%40rose-fields.com> > > > > > > > <mailto:amber%40rose-fields.com> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > <mailto:amber%40rose-fields.com>> > > > > > > > > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] > > > Rams and > > > > > incoming fish > > > > > > > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > > > Date: Wednesday, July 1, > > > 2009, 10:05 > > > > > PM > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Oh, and just so I can make > > > everyone > > > > > jealous, it cost > > > > > > > > me $19 dollars for > > > > > > > > > overnight shipping here to > > > Alaska for > > > > > my 6 lbs of fish > > > > > > > > ;) > > > > > > > > > *runs and hides now* > > > > > > > > > I bet if I do the math it'll > > > be cheaper > > > > > than it would > > > > > > > > have been if I > > > > > > > > > shopped from my LFS, how sad > > > is that? > > > > > > > > > 78+19=$97 for the fish > > > > > > > > > 5 peppered cory's, sell for > > > about 6-7 > > > > > at my LFS > > > > > > > > > 6 bleeding heart tetras, sell > > > for about > > > > > 7 at my LFS > > > > > > > > > 6 german blue ram's, sell for > > > over 10 > > > > > at my LFS > > > > > > > > > I think I'm going to boycot > > > the LFS ;) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Amber > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Amber Berglund wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > The Rams seemed to be > > > the > > > > > healthiest of all the > > > > > > > > fish, they are active > > > > > > > > > > and already searching > > > for food. > > > > > The bleeding > > > > > > > > hearts seemed a bit shaken > > > > > > > > > > up, but they're eating > > > now too. > > > > > The cory's are > > > > > > > > hiding, I think they > > > > > > > > > > didn't like their trip > > > ;) > > > > > > > > > > I love the rams, tiny > > > little guys > > > > > must be just > > > > > > > > barely sexually mature, > > > > > > > > > > it's cute to watch them > > > doing > > > > > their pairing up > > > > > > > > dances. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Amber > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Lenny V. aka GoldLenny > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I'd put them in the > > > 10G and > > > > > just do 2X or > > > > > > > > 3X/week PWC's... or more > > > > > > > > > > > often if > > > > > > > > > > > you can find the > > > time. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Normally, one > > > shouldn't keep > > > > > more than ten > > > > > > > > 1" fish (or five 2" fish or > > > > > > > > > > > three > > > > > > > > > > > 3" fish) in a 10G > > > tank but > > > > > that is for long > > > > > > > > term purposes. For the > > > > > > > > > > > purposes > > > > > > > > > > > of Q-tanks and > > > H-tanks, these > > > > > stocking > > > > > > > > guidelines can be relaxed as > > > > > > > > > > > long as > > > > > > > > > > > the fish keeper > > > does proper > > > > > maintenance on > > > > > > > > the tank during their stay. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > > > > > > > > > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>> > > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>>> > > > > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>> > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>>>> > > > > > > > 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<http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>> > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>>> > > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>> > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>>>>>>>> > > > > > > > > > > > (Links to any > > > articles > > > > > referenced in above > > > > > > > > reply are listed on the > > > > > > > > > right > > > > > > > > > > > side, > > > alphabetically under > > > > > Labels and also > > > > > > > > under Archives by Year, > > > > > > > > > > Month) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -----Original > > > Message----- > > > > > > > > > > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > > > > > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On > > > > > > > > > > > Behalf Of Amber > > > Berglund > > > > > > > > > > > Sent: Wednesday, > > > July 01, > > > > > 2009 4:12 PM > > > > > > > > > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > > > > > Subject: Re: > > > [AquaticLife] > > > > > Rams and incoming > > > > > > > > fish > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Aww, the bleeding > > > hearts are > > > > > tiny! LOL, my > > > > > > > > males are going to be in > > > > > > > > > > heaven > > > > > > > > > > > with their 6 little > > > females > > > > > ;) LOL They all > > > > > > > > look small, less than an > > > > > > > > > > > inch in > > > > > > > > > > > size. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Amber > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Amber Berglund > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I got 16 fish, > > > they > > > > > should all be > > > > > > > > small, lemme open the box and > > > look > > > > > > > > > > > > to see how > > > many made it > > > > > ;) LOL > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Amber > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Lenny V. aka > > > GoldLenny > > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > How many > > > fish did > > > > > you get in and > > > > > > > > how big? The problem with > > > > > > > > > using the > > > > > > > > > > > > > 55G newly > > > set up > > > > > Walstad tank as a > > > > > > > > Q-tank is that if something > > > > > > > > > > > > > should > > > go > > > > > > > > > > > > wrong > > > > > > > > > > > > > and you > > > have to > > > > > treat the fish, > > > > > > > > you may end up having to break > > > > > > > > > down > > > > > > > > > > > > > that > > > tank > > > > > afterwards. A Q-tank is > > > > > > > > best kept very simple so that it > > > > > > > > > > > > > can be > > > sterilized > > > > > afterwards. Run > > > > > > > > to Wal-Mart and buy one or more > > > > > > > > > > > > > new 10G > > > tanks or > > > > > use the Sterilite > > > > > > > > clear plastic tubs, > > > > > > > > > possibly only > > > > > > > > > > > > > one that > > > is large > > > > > enough for all > > > > > > > > the fish, but I wouldn't use the > > > > > > > > > > > > > 55G newly > > > setup > > > > > Walstad > > > > > > > > > > > > substrate > > > > > > > > > > > > > tank. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Lenny > > > Vasbinder > > > > > > > > > > > > > Fish Blog > > > - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>> > > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>>> > > > > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>> > > 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<http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>>> > > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>> > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>>>>> > > > > > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>>> > > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>> > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>>>> > > > > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>> > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>>> > > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>> > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>>>>>>>>>> > > > > > > > > > > > > > (Links to > > > any > > > > > articles referenced > > > > > > > > in above reply are listed on the > > > > > > > > > > > > > right > > > side, > > > > > alphabetically under > > > > > > > > Labels and also under Archives by > > > > > > > > > > > > > Year, > > > > > > > > > > > > Month) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -----Original > > > > > Message----- > > > > > > > > > > > > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On > > > Behalf Of > > > > > > > > Amber > > > > > > > > > Berglund > > > > > > > > > > > > > Sent: > > > Wednesday, > > > > > July 01, 2009 > > > > > > > > 1:23 PM > > > > > > > > > > > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > > > > > > > Subject: > > > > > [AquaticLife] Rams and > > > > > > > > incoming fish > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I have > > > too many > > > > > fish to put into a > > > > > > > > 10 gallon for quarantine as I > > > > > > > > > > > > > made a > > > large fish > > > > > order should I > > > > > > > > go ahead and use the 55 > > > > > > > > > gallon that > > > > > > > > > > > > > I set up > > > this > > > > > weekend as a walstad > > > > > > > > tank? The cycled media is still > > > > > > > > > > > > > in > > > another > > > > > > > > > > > > filter and > > > > > > > > > > > > > the tank > > > is only > > > > > lightly planted > > > > > > > > until my plant order arrives this > > > > > > > > > > > > week. I > > > > > > > > > > > > > could go > > > see what > > > > > the lfs has left > > > > > > > > in stock but it was pretty bare > > > > > > > > > > > > > for > > > plants last > > > > > weekend because > > > > > > > > they didn't put in a plant order. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I think > > > I'm going > > > > > to stick to > > > > > > > > aquabid for my fish and plants > > > from > > > > > > > > > > > > now on. > > > > > > > > > > > > > For the > > > first time > > > > > I will know > > > > > > > > what I am planting in the tank > > > lol. > > > > > > > > > > > > > Can't > > > wait for my 3 > > > > > pairs of > > > > > > > > german blue rams. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Oh and > > > bill the > > > > > blue ones with > > > > > > > > pink belly's are the females. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Amber > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ------------------------------------ > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Please, DELETE this line and > > > EVERYTHING > > > > > below it when > > > > > > > > replying, Thank You. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> > > > > > > > > ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , > > > > > .·´¯`·..><((((º> > > > > > ><br/><br/>(Message over 64 KB, truncated)

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 41664	From: sgriscom_2	Date: 7/3/2009
Subject: Re: Molly questions

Please give me some advise. I can't find answers on the net. --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "sgriscom_2" <sgriscom_2@...> wrote: > > I have a tank with mollies and have found two worms wiggling in the tank. They are at least one inch long and red. I was thinking they were anchor worms but I have yet to see any actually attached to my fish. I added aquarium salt and raised the temp. I read this is a good natural way to get rid of most parasites and diseases. My question would be, Are they anchor worms? Another, how long should I keep the temp up? > > I also have another issue. Every live plant I add gets eaten. I read that mollies won't eat hornwort so I bought one. Well they are eating it, the stems anyway. It looks like they are leaving the leaves to float around. I need a good bushy plant that will offer protection for fry but will not be eaten. Any suggestions? >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 41665	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 7/3/2009
Subject: Re: Amber, need to know? Rams and incoming fish

Or Ol' Bill could go on the college dorm diet (Generic Mac N Cheese and Ramen Noodles and occasional Bologna or PBJ sandwiches) and eat for less than $5.00 a week. ;-) After all, we needed the rest of our money for BEER and BABES!!!! (not necessarily in that order.. lol) Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Amber Berglund Sent: Friday, July 03, 2009 12:17 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Amber, need to know? Rams and incoming fish Oh I meant to say, "save up and make a large fish order"... LOL Amber Amber Berglund wrote: > > > Ahh I see then, You could always save up and have them Fed ex overnight > the fish to you, that way it's worth the $50-60 for shipping. > > Amber > > bill 1433 wrote: > > > > > > > > No Amber, > > > > Its a matter of "coast"! This man is west and ol' bill is east. Air > > express for the fish would be salest and best but not for bill's > > buget. I still like to eat regular and this could cut into that a bit. > > > > Bill > > > > --- On Fri, 7/3/09, Amber Berglund <amber@... > <mailto:amber%40rose-fields.com> > > <mailto:amber%40rose-fields.com>> wrote: > > > > > From: Amber Berglund <amber@... > <mailto:amber%40rose-fields.com> > > <mailto:amber%40rose-fields.com>> > > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Amber, need to know? Rams and incoming fish > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > Date: Friday, July 3, 2009, 11:15 AM > > > How is it too far? Were you looking > > > for someone within driving distance? > > > Over night shipping with fed ex is really overnight ;) > > > (even in Alaska). > > > > > > Amber > > > > > > bill 1433 wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Long Distance Shopping? > > > > > > > > Hi Amber, > > > > > > > > Check out your seller, too far for me but found > > > another that is not. > > > > To me it just started becoming a money case. If > > > your paying high buck > > > > at the LPS BUT the fish are of poor quality and "your > > > stuck with what > > > > you get" type of thing, its time to put your show on > > > the road! > > > > > > > > Bill

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 41666	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 7/3/2009
Subject: Re: Molly questions

I thought I replied to this. They could just be red variants of Planaria. Planaria are common in tanks that might be needing some extra gravel cleaning. Do you see them in the water column or just crawling on things and on the glass? Can you take a picture of them? Be careful with salt. It's not good for your plants in high doses and unfortunately, high doses of salt are needed to really have any medicinal effect on parasites and/or bacteria. I've never kept mollies but I didn't think they were known plant eaters... but after looking at this care sheet/profile on livebearers, it does indicate that mollies are plant eaters. http://fish.mongabay.com/poeciliidae.htm The thing to do when you have plant eaters, is get enough plants at one time so that no single plant has to endure all the picking from the fish so they all have a better chance to grow. This is how we do it with goldfish, which are also voracious plant eaters. I have a section on my blog article about setting up a planted tank, which lists some plants that are known to be more hardy with goldfish and you might want to try these as well. http://goldlenny.blogspot.com/2008/10/planted-tank-so-you-want-planted-tank. html Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of sgriscom_2 Sent: Friday, July 03, 2009 11:12 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Molly questions Please give me some advise. I can't find answers on the net. --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "sgriscom_2" <sgriscom_2@...> wrote: > > I have a tank with mollies and have found two worms wiggling in the tank. They are at least one inch long and red. I was thinking they were anchor worms but I have yet to see any actually attached to my fish. I added aquarium salt and raised the temp. I read this is a good natural way to get rid of most parasites and diseases. My question would be, Are they anchor worms? Another, how long should I keep the temp up? > > I also have another issue. Every live plant I add gets eaten. I read that mollies won't eat hornwort so I bought one. Well they are eating it, the stems anyway. It looks like they are leaving the leaves to float around. I need a good bushy plant that will offer protection for fry but will not be eaten. Any suggestions? > ------------------------------------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the home page. Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com to receive the digest, which includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com for the No E-Mail option where you will still be able to read messages on the group and post replies. Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com to receive individual e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 41667	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 7/3/2009
Subject: Re: Any safe tank mates for the Angel's?

From what I have read about nerite snails, they will not do well if kept in freshwater for long, they are more brackish to marine water snails. I cannot vouch for that statement, just something I read on the web, and I cannot quickly locate it right now. Something that I do not see mentioned is water hardness in the items I have read on these snails. They may really be OK if you have rock hard water, but survivability may diminish with a lowering hardness. Also some of the nerites seem to not make the change very well as they are being adapted to the freshwater. If that is a true statement, and, even if it is not, I'd look for those that have already been acclimated to fresh, then keep an eye on them over time to see how they are faring. \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Donna Ransome Sent: Friday, July 03, 2009 7:59 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Any safe tank mates for the Angel's? The plecos prefer the soft green algae. I have bristlenose that take care of the glass pretty well. I also have zebra nerite snails.they are new so not sure if they are eating the black beard algae or not, but they appear to be in at least one tank. They reproduce only in brackish water so they don't overrun the tank, and they are an attractive black/brown zebra stripe. _____ From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Lenny V. aka GoldLenny Sent: Friday, July 03, 2009 3:06 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Any safe tank mates for the Angel's? A Pleco comes to mind. Preferably one of the dwarf species so it's not as much burden on the bioload. A Bristle Nosed or Clown Pleco both stay under 5". They are both "armored" catfish so they are at least designed to tolerate a little abuse and ward it off with their spines in their fins and the actual armored plating that covers their skin. Mongabay's profile has this for the SC section (Suggested Companions) for Angelfish: SC: Catfish (Armored, Pimelodids, Doradids, Loricarids), characins (Headstanders, hatchetfish, larger schooling tetras), cichlids (Angelfish, Discus, Waroo, Acaras, Ram, Eartheaters), gouramis, livebearers that can tolerate neutral water conditions. There are a couple of "armored suckermouth catfish" (aka algae eaters) that are called Clown Plecos. Here is one which only grows to around 3"... http://fish. <http://fish.mongabay.com/species/Peckoltia_pulcher.html> mongabay.com/species/Peckoltia_pulcher.html If it is too small and can't deal with your Terrorist Angelfish, then you could always move it to another tank since it is small enough to fit most of your tanks. Here are the others that are called Clown Plecos and look very similar. 3.9" - http://www.planetca <http://www.planetcatfish.com/catelog/species.php?species_id=734> tfish.com/catelog/species.php?species_id=734 2.4" - http://www.planetca <http://www.planetcatfish.com/catelog/species.php?species_id=736> tfish.com/catelog/species.php?species_id=736 Of course, the Bristle Nosed grows closer to the 5" range and a couple of species from the Ancistrus Genus are commonly called Bristlenose Catfish or Bristle Nosed Plecos. The males get the actual bristles on their noses whereas the females look "normal". http://www.planetca <http://www.planetcatfish.com/catelog/species.php?species_id=48> tfish.com/catelog/species.php?species_id=48 http://www.planetca <http://www.planetcatfish.com/catelog/species.php?species_id=49> tfish.com/catelog/species.php?species_id=49 Since all of the "armored catfish" above stay hidden a lot, because they like to hang out in/under wood, rocks, etc., and because they are typically more active at night, they should not threaten the Angelfish as much. If the Angelfish do seem to be a problem when mating, you could always put a divider in the tank to give the dwarf pleco one third of the tank during these mating periods. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Amber Berglund Sent: Thursday, July 02, 2009 11:17 PM To: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Any safe tank mates for the Angel's? Okay is there any safe algae eater that I could put in with my 2 mated Angel's in their 55 gallon? Or maybe a bottom feeder? I dunno... Bigger snails maybe? Amber

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 41668	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 7/3/2009
Subject: Re: Live food suggestions please

Well, you could travel all the way to the coast to find a bait shop, and they may carry earthworms that you could buy. Did you feed your oscar meal worms? Maybe red worms? \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Amber Berglund Sent: Friday, July 03, 2009 11:14 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Live food suggestions please Earthworms don't come out much here, I could find lots of slugs though, LOL. I was thinking of maybe small crickets? Or do worms appear tastier to fish? LOL I can't remember the kind of worms I bought for my oscars it was ages ago. It's right on the tip of my fingers but my darn hands don't want to type it out for me, LOL Amber bill 1433 wrote: > > > > Hi \\Steve// ! > > Can you refresh my memory here? A long time ago I did this for my > Oscars but I did something to them first to avoid contamination to the > aquarium water? Let the worms in plain water for an hour or so? Can't > remember? > > Around here lately kind of blessed, lots of rain, lots of worms! > > Bill > > --- On Thu, 7/2/09, Steve Szabo <steve@... > <mailto:steve%40familyszabo.com>> wrote: > > > From: Steve Szabo <steve@... > <mailto:steve%40familyszabo.com>> > > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Live food suggestions please > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > Date: Thursday, July 2, 2009, 10:04 PM > > Has the ground thawed up there yet? > > <g> Try some chopped earthworms. > > > > \\Steve// > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] > > On Behalf Of Amber Berglund > > Sent: Thursday, July 02, 2009 12:55 PM > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > Subject: [AquaticLife] Live food suggestions please > > > > Okay my severum seems mad when I feed him anything other > > than frozen > > foods, so I was going to try getting some live foods for > > him, are there > > any suggestions to start with that may appear tasty to > > him? > > I used to feed my oscars worms and such, but I want > > something to start > > with that should appear nice and tasty to him since he > > hasn't had > > anything worm like yet ;) LOL. > > I'd catch ants but they are hard to find up here, and I > > refuse to pour > > sugar on my floor in hopes of getting sugar ants, LOL. > > The LFS sells crickets but I'm not sure how small they are, > > I'd have to > > check, he still doesn't have a very big mouth, anything > > over a sinking > > pellet seems to be too big for him, although I saw him > > running around > > eyeing the baby platy's to see if they'd fit, perhaps they > > just don't > > taste good enough? I have at least 10 baby's running around > > in the 125 > > gallon tank with what looks to be more coming soon ;) > > > > Amber > > > > > > > > ------------------------------------ > > > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when > > replying, Thank You. > > ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> > > ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> > > PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is > > NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of > > the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new > > subject (was re: old subject)" <- > > <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. > > , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. > > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. > > > > If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of > > unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by > > clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the home page. > > > > Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:aquaticlife-digest%40yahoogroups.com> > > to receive the digest, which includes up to 25 posts at a > > time in a single email > > > > Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:aquaticlife-nomail%40yahoogroups.com> > > for the No E-Mail option where you will still be able to > > read messages on the group and post replies. > > > > Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:aquaticlife-normal%40yahoogroups.com> > > to receive individual e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > mailto:AquaticLife-fullfeatured@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife-fullfeatured%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > > ------------------------------------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the home page. Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com to receive the digest, which includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com for the No E-Mail option where you will still be able to read messages on the group and post replies. Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com to receive individual e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 41669	From: bill 1433	Date: 7/3/2009
Subject: Re: Live food suggestions please

Now I'm goin' way out on a limb here, but I'll bet you could find some enterprising individual on the Internet that would be willing to send you some? Provided of course, that they came in an unmarked package? ol' bill --- On Fri, 7/3/09, Steve Szabo <steve@...> wrote: > From: Steve Szabo <steve@...> > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Live food suggestions please > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Date: Friday, July 3, 2009, 4:22 PM > Well, you could travel all the way to > the coast to find a bait shop, and they may carry earthworms > that you could buy. Did you feed your oscar meal worms? > Maybe red worms? > > \\Steve// > > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] > On Behalf Of Amber Berglund > Sent: Friday, July 03, 2009 11:14 AM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Live food suggestions please > > Earthworms don't come out much here, I could find lots of > slugs though, LOL. > I was thinking of maybe small crickets? Or do worms appear > tastier to > fish? LOL > I can't remember the kind of worms I bought for my oscars > it was ages > ago. It's right on the tip of my fingers but my darn hands > don't want to > type it out for me, LOL > > Amber > > bill 1433 wrote: > > > > > > > > Hi \\Steve// ! > > > > Can you refresh my memory here? A long time ago I did > this for my > > Oscars but I did something to them first to avoid > contamination to the > > aquarium water? Let the worms in plain water for an > hour or so?  Can't > > remember? > > > > Around here lately kind of blessed, lots of rain, lots > of worms! > > > > Bill > > > > --- On Thu, 7/2/09, Steve Szabo <steve@... > > > <mailto:steve%40familyszabo.com>> wrote: > > > > > From: Steve Szabo <steve@... > > > <mailto:steve%40familyszabo.com>> > > > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Live food suggestions > please > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > Date: Thursday, July 2, 2009, 10:04 PM > > > Has the ground thawed up there yet? > > > <g> Try some chopped earthworms. > > > > > > \\Steve// > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] > > > On Behalf Of Amber Berglund > > > Sent: Thursday, July 02, 2009 12:55 PM > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > Subject: [AquaticLife] Live food suggestions > please > > > > > > Okay my severum seems mad when I feed him > anything other > > > than frozen > > > foods, so I was going to try getting some live > foods for > > > him, are there > > > any suggestions to start with that may appear > tasty to > > > him? > > > I used to feed my oscars worms and such, but I > want > > > something to start > > > with that should appear nice and tasty to him > since he > > > hasn't had > > > anything worm like yet ;) LOL. > > > I'd catch ants but they are hard to find up here, > and I > > > refuse to pour > > > sugar on my floor in hopes of getting sugar ants, > LOL. > > > The LFS sells crickets but I'm not sure how small > they are, > > > I'd have to > > > check, he still doesn't have a very big mouth, > anything > > > over a sinking > > > pellet seems to be too big for him, although I > saw him > > > running around > > > eyeing the baby platy's to see if they'd fit, > perhaps they > > > just don't > > > taste good enough? I have at least 10 baby's > running around > > > in the 125 > > > gallon tank with what looks to be more coming > soon ;) > > > > > > Amber > > > > > > > > > > > > ------------------------------------ > > > > > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it > when > > > replying, Thank You. > > > > ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> > > > ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , > .·´¯`·..><((((º> > > > PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT > that is > > > NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the > TOPIC of > > > the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE > -> i.e. "new > > > subject (was re: old subject)" <- > > > > <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. > > > , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. > > > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this > matter. > > > > > > If you do not want all of the groups emails, > instead of > > > unsubscribing, you can change your delivery > option by > > > clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the home > page. > > > > > > Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com > > > <mailto:aquaticlife-digest%40yahoogroups.com> > > > to receive the digest, which includes up to 25 > posts at a > > > time in a single email > > > > > > Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com > > > <mailto:aquaticlife-nomail%40yahoogroups.com> > > > for the No E-Mail option where you will still be > able to > > > read messages on the group and post replies. > > > > > > Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com > > > <mailto:aquaticlife-normal%40yahoogroups.com> > > > to receive individual e-mails.Yahoo! Groups > Links > > > > > > > > >     mailto:AquaticLife-fullfeatured@yahoogroups.com > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife-fullfeatured%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ------------------------------------ > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when > replying, Thank You. > ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> > ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> > PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is > NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of > the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new > subject (was re: old subject)" <- > <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. > , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. > > If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of > unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by > clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the home page.  > > Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com > to receive the digest, which includes up to 25 posts at a > time in a single email > > Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com > for the No E-Mail option where you will still be able to > read messages on the group and post replies. > > Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com > to receive individual e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > ------------------------------------ > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when > replying, Thank You. > ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> > ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> > PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is > NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of > the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new > subject (was re: old subject)" <- > <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. > , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. > > If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of > unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by > clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the home page.  > > Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com > to receive the digest, which includes up to 25 posts at a > time in a single email > > Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com > for the No E-Mail option where you will still be able to > read messages on the group and post replies. > > Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com > to receive individual e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links > > >     mailto:AquaticLife-fullfeatured@yahoogroups.com > > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 41670	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 7/3/2009
Subject: Re: Live food suggestions please

Why an unmarked package? Worried the UPS/FEDEX guy/gal will stop off at the fishing hole on their route? I'd be more worried about that happening with the USPS guy/gal. :-P Or maybe your friendly neighborhood contractor... ever since I picked up a free Popeil's Pocket Fisherman after Katrina. While going over the inventory of what we saved from an owners flooded home, seeing what they wanted to keep and what they wanted trashed, they said to trash the Pocket Fisherman. I explained to them that it was still in the box and plastic zip-loc carrying pouch and was not damaged but they said it had been in their garage for 20 years. I've been carrying it around in my truck ever since, swearing I'm gonna stop somewhere and do some fishing while in between jobs but so far it just hasn't happened. Oh yeah... I did check eBay to see if it was worth anything but there are still plenty of folks selling their own Pocket Fishermans... so no million dollar collectors item there. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of bill 1433 Sent: Friday, July 03, 2009 3:33 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Live food suggestions please Now I'm goin' way out on a limb here, but I'll bet you could find some enterprising individual on the Internet that would be willing to send you some? Provided of course, that they came in an unmarked package? ol' bill --- On Fri, 7/3/09, Steve Szabo <steve@...> wrote: > From: Steve Szabo <steve@...> > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Live food suggestions please > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Date: Friday, July 3, 2009, 4:22 PM > Well, you could travel all the way to > the coast to find a bait shop, and they may carry earthworms that you > could buy. Did you feed your oscar meal worms? > Maybe red worms? > > \\Steve// > > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] > On Behalf Of Amber Berglund > Sent: Friday, July 03, 2009 11:14 AM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Live food suggestions please > > Earthworms don't come out much here, I could find lots of slugs > though, LOL. > I was thinking of maybe small crickets? Or do worms appear tastier to > fish? LOL I can't remember the kind of worms I bought for my oscars it > was ages ago. It's right on the tip of my fingers but my darn hands > don't want to type it out for me, LOL > > Amber > > bill 1433 wrote: > > > > > > > > Hi \\Steve// ! > > > > Can you refresh my memory here? A long time ago I did > this for my > > Oscars but I did something to them first to avoid > contamination to the > > aquarium water? Let the worms in plain water for an > hour or so?  Can't > > remember? > > > > Around here lately kind of blessed, lots of rain, lots > of worms! > > > > Bill > > > > --- On Thu, 7/2/09, Steve Szabo <steve@... > > > <mailto:steve%40familyszabo.com>> wrote: > > > > > From: Steve Szabo <steve@... > > > <mailto:steve%40familyszabo.com>> > > > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Live food suggestions > please > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > Date: Thursday, July 2, 2009, 10:04 PM Has the ground thawed up > > > there yet? > > > <g> Try some chopped earthworms. > > > > > > \\Steve// > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] > > > On Behalf Of Amber Berglund > > > Sent: Thursday, July 02, 2009 12:55 PM > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > Subject: [AquaticLife] Live food suggestions > please > > > > > > Okay my severum seems mad when I feed him > anything other > > > than frozen > > > foods, so I was going to try getting some live > foods for > > > him, are there > > > any suggestions to start with that may appear > tasty to > > > him? > > > I used to feed my oscars worms and such, but I > want > > > something to start > > > with that should appear nice and tasty to him > since he > > > hasn't had > > > anything worm like yet ;) LOL. > > > I'd catch ants but they are hard to find up here, > and I > > > refuse to pour > > > sugar on my floor in hopes of getting sugar ants, > LOL. > > > The LFS sells crickets but I'm not sure how small > they are, > > > I'd have to > > > check, he still doesn't have a very big mouth, > anything > > > over a sinking > > > pellet seems to be too big for him, although I > saw him > > > running around > > > eyeing the baby platy's to see if they'd fit, > perhaps they > > > just don't > > > taste good enough? I have at least 10 baby's > running around > > > in the 125 > > > gallon tank with what looks to be more coming > soon ;) > > > > > > Amber

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 41671	From: bill 1433	Date: 7/3/2009
Subject: Re: Live food suggestions please

No,   But they might take offense to the transport of Live Worms and pitch it!   Bill --- On Fri, 7/3/09, Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@...> wrote: From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@...> Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Live food suggestions please To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Date: Friday, July 3, 2009, 5:27 PM Why an unmarked package?  Worried the UPS/FEDEX guy/gal will stop off at the fishing hole on their route?  I'd be more worried about that happening with the USPS guy/gal. :-P  Or maybe your friendly neighborhood contractor... ever since I picked up a free Popeil's Pocket Fisherman after Katrina.  While going over the inventory of what we saved from an owners flooded home, seeing what they wanted to keep and what they wanted trashed, they said to trash the Pocket Fisherman.  I explained to them that it was still in the box and plastic zip-loc carrying pouch and was not damaged but they said it had been in their garage for 20 years.  I've been carrying it around in my truck ever since, swearing I'm gonna stop somewhere and do some fishing while in between jobs but so far it just hasn't happened.  Oh yeah... I did check eBay to see if it was worth anything but there are still plenty of folks selling their own Pocket Fishermans... so no million dollar collectors item there. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of bill 1433 Sent: Friday, July 03, 2009 3:33 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Live food suggestions please Now I'm goin' way out on a limb here, but I'll bet you could find some enterprising individual on the Internet that would be willing to send you some? Provided of course, that they came in an unmarked package? ol' bill --- On Fri, 7/3/09, Steve Szabo <steve@...> wrote: > From: Steve Szabo <steve@...> > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Live food suggestions please > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Date: Friday, July 3, 2009, 4:22 PM > Well, you could travel all the way to > the coast to find a bait shop, and they may carry earthworms that you > could buy. Did you feed your oscar meal worms? > Maybe red worms? > > \\Steve// > > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] > On Behalf Of Amber Berglund > Sent: Friday, July 03, 2009 11:14 AM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Live food suggestions please > > Earthworms don't come out much here, I could find lots of slugs > though, LOL. > I was thinking of maybe small crickets? Or do worms appear tastier to > fish? LOL I can't remember the kind of worms I bought for my oscars it > was ages ago. It's right on the tip of my fingers but my darn hands > don't want to type it out for me, LOL > > Amber > > bill 1433 wrote: > > > > > > > > Hi \\Steve// ! > > > > Can you refresh my memory here? A long time ago I did > this for my > > Oscars but I did something to them first to avoid > contamination to the > > aquarium water? Let the worms in plain water for an > hour or so?  Can't > > remember? > > > > Around here lately kind of blessed, lots of rain, lots > of worms! > > > > Bill > > > > --- On Thu, 7/2/09, Steve Szabo <steve@... > > > <mailto:steve%40familyszabo.com>> wrote: > > > > > From: Steve Szabo <steve@... > > > <mailto:steve%40familyszabo.com>> > > > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Live food suggestions > please > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > Date: Thursday, July 2, 2009, 10:04 PM Has the ground thawed up > > > there yet? > > > <g> Try some chopped earthworms. > > > > > > \\Steve// > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] > > > On Behalf Of Amber Berglund > > > Sent: Thursday, July 02, 2009 12:55 PM > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > Subject: [AquaticLife] Live food suggestions > please > > > > > > Okay my severum seems mad when I feed him > anything other > > > than frozen > > > foods, so I was going to try getting some live > foods for > > > him, are there > > > any suggestions to start with that may appear > tasty to > > > him? > > > I used to feed my oscars worms and such, but I > want > > > something to start > > > with that should appear nice and tasty to him > since he > > > hasn't had > > > anything worm like yet ;) LOL. > > > I'd catch ants but they are hard to find up here, > and I > > > refuse to pour > > > sugar on my floor in hopes of getting sugar ants, > LOL. > > > The LFS sells crickets but I'm not sure how small > they are, > > > I'd have to > > > check, he still doesn't have a very big mouth, > anything > > > over a sinking > > > pellet seems to be too big for him, although I > saw him > > > running around > > > eyeing the baby platy's to see if they'd fit, > perhaps they > > > just don't > > > taste good enough? I have at least 10 baby's > running around > > > in the 125 > > > gallon tank with what looks to be more coming > soon ;) > > > > > > Amber ------------------------------------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the home page.  Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com to receive the digest, which includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com for the No E-Mail option where you will still be able to read messages on the group and post replies. Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com to receive individual e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 41672	From: Donna Ransome	Date: 7/3/2009
Subject: Re: Any safe tank mates for the Angel's?

I know there are marine nerites, but supposedly these are from streams in South Africa and Florida. I was thinking they live in fresh but migrate to the brackish mouth of the river to reproduce? They definitely look different than the marine nerites. Lifespan about one year? _____ From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Steve Szabo Sent: Friday, July 03, 2009 3:39 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Any safe tank mates for the Angel's? From what I have read about nerite snails, they will not do well if kept in freshwater for long, they are more brackish to marine water snails. I cannot vouch for that statement, just something I read on the web, and I cannot quickly locate it right now. Something that I do not see mentioned is water hardness in the items I have read on these snails. They may really be OK if you have rock hard water, but survivability may diminish with a lowering hardness. Also some of the nerites seem to not make the change very well as they are being adapted to the freshwater. If that is a true statement, and, even if it is not, I'd look for those that have already been acclimated to fresh, then keep an eye on them over time to see how they are faring. \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Donna Ransome Sent: Friday, July 03, 2009 7:59 AM To: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Any safe tank mates for the Angel's? The plecos prefer the soft green algae. I have bristlenose that take care of the glass pretty well. I also have zebra nerite snails.they are new so not sure if they are eating the black beard algae or not, but they appear to be in at least one tank. They reproduce only in brackish water so they don't overrun the tank, and they are an attractive black/brown zebra stripe. _____ From: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Lenny V. aka GoldLenny Sent: Friday, July 03, 2009 3:06 AM To: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Any safe tank mates for the Angel's? A Pleco comes to mind. Preferably one of the dwarf species so it's not as much burden on the bioload. A Bristle Nosed or Clown Pleco both stay under 5". They are both "armored" catfish so they are at least designed to tolerate a little abuse and ward it off with their spines in their fins and the actual armored plating that covers their skin. Mongabay's profile has this for the SC section (Suggested Companions) for Angelfish: SC: Catfish (Armored, Pimelodids, Doradids, Loricarids), characins (Headstanders, hatchetfish, larger schooling tetras), cichlids (Angelfish, Discus, Waroo, Acaras, Ram, Eartheaters), gouramis, livebearers that can tolerate neutral water conditions. There are a couple of "armored suckermouth catfish" (aka algae eaters) that are called Clown Plecos. Here is one which only grows to around 3"... http://fish. <http://fish. <http://fish.mongabay.com/species/Peckoltia_pulcher.html> mongabay.com/species/Peckoltia_pulcher.html> mongabay.com/species/Peckoltia_pulcher.html If it is too small and can't deal with your Terrorist Angelfish, then you could always move it to another tank since it is small enough to fit most of your tanks. Here are the others that are called Clown Plecos and look very similar. 3.9" - http://www.planetca <http://www.planetca <http://www.planetcatfish.com/catelog/species.php?species_id=734> tfish.com/catelog/species.php?species_id=734> tfish.com/catelog/species.php?species_id=734 2.4" - http://www.planetca <http://www.planetca <http://www.planetcatfish.com/catelog/species.php?species_id=736> tfish.com/catelog/species.php?species_id=736> tfish.com/catelog/species.php?species_id=736 Of course, the Bristle Nosed grows closer to the 5" range and a couple of species from the Ancistrus Genus are commonly called Bristlenose Catfish or Bristle Nosed Plecos. The males get the actual bristles on their noses whereas the females look "normal". http://www.planetca <http://www.planetca <http://www.planetcatfish.com/catelog/species.php?species_id=48> tfish.com/catelog/species.php?species_id=48> tfish.com/catelog/species.php?species_id=48 http://www.planetca <http://www.planetca <http://www.planetcatfish.com/catelog/species.php?species_id=49> tfish.com/catelog/species.php?species_id=49> tfish.com/catelog/species.php?species_id=49 Since all of the "armored catfish" above stay hidden a lot, because they like to hang out in/under wood, rocks, etc., and because they are typically more active at night, they should not threaten the Angelfish as much. If the Angelfish do seem to be a problem when mating, you could always put a divider in the tank to give the dwarf pleco one third of the tank during these mating periods. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> blogspot.com> blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Amber Berglund Sent: Thursday, July 02, 2009 11:17 PM To: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Any safe tank mates for the Angel's? Okay is there any safe algae eater that I could put in with my 2 mated Angel's in their 55 gallon? Or maybe a bottom feeder? I dunno... Bigger snails maybe? Amber [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 41673	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 7/3/2009
Subject: 55 gallon (upstairs) tank

So I went ahead and broke down the 55 gallon tank upstairs with all the algae issues and redid it as a walstad natural planted tank with LOTS of plants, and left a lot of bunch plants floating on the surface to help diffuse the lighting, and some hornwort as well to help soak up any nutrients. I also got a Tiger Lotus for a good centerpiece in the tank. The tank looks very cool. Most of what I got was wysteria and narrow leaf swords and some dwarf sag. I left a lot of the wysteria floating, oh and I got some bacopa (green kind), mostly plants that don't need lots of nutes. I also got some crypts to put in the Angel tank, they are floating with hornwort for now, I didn't have time to plant them earlier. Amber

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 41674	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 7/3/2009
Subject: Re: Any safe tank mates for the Angel's?

I cannot tell you about an expected life span for the snails. I've never kept them, but have done some reading. There does seem to be a lot of conflicting information about them out there. The only thing that seemed consistent was a lack of water quality parameters other than temperature, which, as I recall, was in the upper 70's. \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Donna Ransome Sent: Friday, July 03, 2009 6:13 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Any safe tank mates for the Angel's? I know there are marine nerites, but supposedly these are from streams in South Africa and Florida. I was thinking they live in fresh but migrate to the brackish mouth of the river to reproduce? They definitely look different than the marine nerites. Lifespan about one year? _____ From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Steve Szabo Sent: Friday, July 03, 2009 3:39 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Any safe tank mates for the Angel's? From what I have read about nerite snails, they will not do well if kept in freshwater for long, they are more brackish to marine water snails. I cannot vouch for that statement, just something I read on the web, and I cannot quickly locate it right now. Something that I do not see mentioned is water hardness in the items I have read on these snails. They may really be OK if you have rock hard water, but survivability may diminish with a lowering hardness. Also some of the nerites seem to not make the change very well as they are being adapted to the freshwater. If that is a true statement, and, even if it is not, I'd look for those that have already been acclimated to fresh, then keep an eye on them over time to see how they are faring. \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Donna Ransome Sent: Friday, July 03, 2009 7:59 AM To: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Any safe tank mates for the Angel's? The plecos prefer the soft green algae. I have bristlenose that take care of the glass pretty well. I also have zebra nerite snails.they are new so not sure if they are eating the black beard algae or not, but they appear to be in at least one tank. They reproduce only in brackish water so they don't overrun the tank, and they are an attractive black/brown zebra stripe. _____ From: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Lenny V. aka GoldLenny Sent: Friday, July 03, 2009 3:06 AM To: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Any safe tank mates for the Angel's? A Pleco comes to mind. Preferably one of the dwarf species so it's not as much burden on the bioload. A Bristle Nosed or Clown Pleco both stay under 5". They are both "armored" catfish so they are at least designed to tolerate a little abuse and ward it off with their spines in their fins and the actual armored plating that covers their skin. Mongabay's profile has this for the SC section (Suggested Companions) for Angelfish: SC: Catfish (Armored, Pimelodids, Doradids, Loricarids), characins (Headstanders, hatchetfish, larger schooling tetras), cichlids (Angelfish, Discus, Waroo, Acaras, Ram, Eartheaters), gouramis, livebearers that can tolerate neutral water conditions. There are a couple of "armored suckermouth catfish" (aka algae eaters) that are called Clown Plecos. Here is one which only grows to around 3"... http://fish. <http://fish. <http://fish.mongabay.com/species/Peckoltia_pulcher.html> mongabay.com/species/Peckoltia_pulcher.html> mongabay.com/species/Peckoltia_pulcher.html If it is too small and can't deal with your Terrorist Angelfish, then you could always move it to another tank since it is small enough to fit most of your tanks. Here are the others that are called Clown Plecos and look very similar. 3.9" - http://www.planetca <http://www.planetca <http://www.planetcatfish.com/catelog/species.php?species_id=734> tfish.com/catelog/species.php?species_id=734> tfish.com/catelog/species.php?species_id=734 2.4" - http://www.planetca <http://www.planetca <http://www.planetcatfish.com/catelog/species.php?species_id=736> tfish.com/catelog/species.php?species_id=736> tfish.com/catelog/species.php?species_id=736 Of course, the Bristle Nosed grows closer to the 5" range and a couple of species from the Ancistrus Genus are commonly called Bristlenose Catfish or Bristle Nosed Plecos. The males get the actual bristles on their noses whereas the females look "normal". http://www.planetca <http://www.planetca <http://www.planetcatfish.com/catelog/species.php?species_id=48> tfish.com/catelog/species.php?species_id=48> tfish.com/catelog/species.php?species_id=48 http://www.planetca <http://www.planetca <http://www.planetcatfish.com/catelog/species.php?species_id=49> tfish.com/catelog/species.php?species_id=49> tfish.com/catelog/species.php?species_id=49 Since all of the "armored catfish" above stay hidden a lot, because they like to hang out in/under wood, rocks, etc., and because they are typically more active at night, they should not threaten the Angelfish as much. If the Angelfish do seem to be a problem when mating, you could always put a divider in the tank to give the dwarf pleco one third of the tank during these mating periods. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> blogspot.com> blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Amber Berglund Sent: Thursday, July 02, 2009 11:17 PM To: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Any safe tank mates for the Angel's? Okay is there any safe algae eater that I could put in with my 2 mated Angel's in their 55 gallon? Or maybe a bottom feeder? I dunno... Bigger snails maybe? Amber

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 41675	From: Rodrigues Gilbert	Date: 7/3/2009
Subject: (no subject)

Sounds like a deal to $15.95, My LFS sells them at $17.99 on sale! The post that I was reading on the Black Beard Algae said that once it gets out of control, it would be extremely hard to get rid of. The poster said he did the same things you described as doing but to no avail. As donna mentioned you may have to plant more plants to actually give the algae competition using the nutrients up in the tank to deter it's growth and maybe starve it from getting nutrients. I still have a little in my 55 gallon but, it looks more like a stain on the fake plants than a problematic growth (yes, even I use some fakes LOL). [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 41676	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 7/3/2009
Subject: Oh my, my ram's are spawning already! LOL

Okay so tonight while watching the new fish, the rams have all paired off and formed their territories and chase the "intruders" out. Well while watching I noticed one female was cleaning a bit more than normal (picking at a shell), upon closer inspection she was eating unfertile eggs and then depositing new ones while the male guarded above her. It was so cute! They are much more docile when spawning than the Angel's thank goodness. Oh and the Angel's have calmed down and seem to have gotten used to the new tank, I planted a bunch of new plants today that just arrived (mostly crypts), and added a good bit of floating hornwort and duckweed. They seem happy and hungry like normal, just waiting to see if they go into spawning mode again or not, I have some pieces of slate for them but they usually like to pick the intake tube on the filter ;) Amber

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 41677	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 7/3/2009
Subject: Re: Oh my, my ram's are spawning already! LOL

Sounds like "Amber's Cichlids And More Fish Store" is close to a reality on Ketchikan Island. Do they have a Craigslist for Ketchikan? Free advertising if they do! Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Amber Berglund Sent: Saturday, July 04, 2009 12:31 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Oh my, my ram's are spawning already! LOL Okay so tonight while watching the new fish, the rams have all paired off and formed their territories and chase the "intruders" out. Well while watching I noticed one female was cleaning a bit more than normal (picking at a shell), upon closer inspection she was eating unfertile eggs and then depositing new ones while the male guarded above her. It was so cute! They are much more docile when spawning than the Angel's thank goodness. Oh and the Angel's have calmed down and seem to have gotten used to the new tank, I planted a bunch of new plants today that just arrived (mostly crypts), and added a good bit of floating hornwort and duckweed. They seem happy and hungry like normal, just waiting to see if they go into spawning mode again or not, I have some pieces of slate for them but they usually like to pick the intake tube on the filter ;) Amber

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 41678	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 7/3/2009
Subject: Re: Oh my, my ram's are spawning already! LOL

Why sell just on the island? I have discount shipping I could offer the best deal on aquabid, LOL. Hmm maybe I better hide now ;) Amber Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > > > Sounds like "Amber's Cichlids And More Fish Store" is close to a > reality on > Ketchikan Island. Do they have a Craigslist for Ketchikan? Free > advertising if they do! > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right > side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On > Behalf Of Amber Berglund > Sent: Saturday, July 04, 2009 12:31 AM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Subject: [AquaticLife] Oh my, my ram's are spawning already! LOL > > Okay so tonight while watching the new fish, the rams have all paired off > and formed their territories and chase the "intruders" out. Well while > watching I noticed one female was cleaning a bit more than normal (picking > at a shell), upon closer inspection she was eating unfertile eggs and then > depositing new ones while the male guarded above her. It was so cute! They > are much more docile when spawning than the Angel's thank goodness. > Oh and the Angel's have calmed down and seem to have gotten used to > the new > tank, I planted a bunch of new plants today that just arrived (mostly > crypts), and added a good bit of floating hornwort and duckweed. > They seem happy and hungry like normal, just waiting to see if they go > into > spawning mode again or not, I have some pieces of slate for them but they > usually like to pick the intake tube on the filter ;) > > Amber > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 41679	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 7/3/2009
Subject: My next additions, LOL

And yes, I have a fish addiction ;) Now lets add some snails to the mix, LOL. I'm getting some of these little guys (pea to marble sized), they're purple! The adults are a nice dark color too. http://home-and-garden.webshots.com/photo/2015486690045182475SAEauu He also has magenta ones (they look more like pink to me, but they're pretty too, nice colors). I will get them next week, along with goodies from Pam, she's sending me some BN pleco's and some of her colorful snails (she says they're not quite as pretty as the ones I linked, but I'm sure they'll be very nice too). I'm thinking about putting a couple of the purple ones together in a tank (when I find a male and a female) so that I can keep their nice dark colors. Maybe I can get a fish business going, LOL. Amber

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 41680	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 7/3/2009
Subject: Re: Oh my, my ram's are spawning already! LOL

But there's limited or practically NO competition on the island so you can sell your fish for higher dollar amounts, still lower than the LFS, and not have to worry about shipping and you could even deliver the fish to your customers and help acclimate them, for a fee if they like. Nothing wrong with selling over the net too but go for your higher ROI first. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Amber Berglund Sent: Saturday, July 04, 2009 12:42 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Oh my, my ram's are spawning already! LOL Why sell just on the island? I have discount shipping I could offer the best deal on aquabid, LOL. Hmm maybe I better hide now ;) Amber Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > > > Sounds like "Amber's Cichlids And More Fish Store" is close to a > reality on Ketchikan Island. Do they have a Craigslist for Ketchikan? > Free advertising if they do! > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> (Links to any articles referenced in > above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels > and also under Archives by Year, Month) > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On Behalf Of Amber Berglund > Sent: Saturday, July 04, 2009 12:31 AM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Subject: [AquaticLife] Oh my, my ram's are spawning already! LOL > > Okay so tonight while watching the new fish, the rams have all paired > off and formed their territories and chase the "intruders" out. Well > while watching I noticed one female was cleaning a bit more than > normal (picking at a shell), upon closer inspection she was eating > unfertile eggs and then depositing new ones while the male guarded > above her. It was so cute! They are much more docile when spawning than the Angel's thank goodness. > Oh and the Angel's have calmed down and seem to have gotten used to > the new tank, I planted a bunch of new plants today that just arrived > (mostly crypts), and added a good bit of floating hornwort and > duckweed. > They seem happy and hungry like normal, just waiting to see if they go > into spawning mode again or not, I have some pieces of slate for them > but they usually like to pick the intake tube on the filter ;) > > Amber

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 41681	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 7/3/2009
Subject: Re: Oh my, my ram's are spawning already! LOL

Good idea, I could just advertise locally. Amber Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > > > But there's limited or practically NO competition on the island so you can > sell your fish for higher dollar amounts, still lower than the LFS, > and not > have to worry about shipping and you could even deliver the fish to your > customers and help acclimate them, for a fee if they like. > > Nothing wrong with selling over the net too but go for your higher ROI > first. > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right > side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) > > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On > Behalf Of Amber Berglund > Sent: Saturday, July 04, 2009 12:42 AM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Oh my, my ram's are spawning already! LOL > > Why sell just on the island? I have discount shipping I could offer > the best > deal on aquabid, LOL. > Hmm maybe I better hide now ;) > > Amber > > Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > > > > > > Sounds like "Amber's Cichlids And More Fish Store" is close to a > > reality on Ketchikan Island. Do they have a Craigslist for Ketchikan? > > Free advertising if they do! > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>> > (Links to any articles referenced in > > above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels > > and also under Archives by Year, Month) > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On Behalf Of Amber Berglund > > Sent: Saturday, July 04, 2009 12:31 AM > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > Subject: [AquaticLife] Oh my, my ram's are spawning already! LOL > > > > Okay so tonight while watching the new fish, the rams have all paired > > off and formed their territories and chase the "intruders" out. Well > > while watching I noticed one female was cleaning a bit more than > > normal (picking at a shell), upon closer inspection she was eating > > unfertile eggs and then depositing new ones while the male guarded > > above her. It was so cute! They are much more docile when spawning than > the Angel's thank goodness. > > Oh and the Angel's have calmed down and seem to have gotten used to > > the new tank, I planted a bunch of new plants today that just arrived > > (mostly crypts), and added a good bit of floating hornwort and > > duckweed. > > They seem happy and hungry like normal, just waiting to see if they go > > into spawning mode again or not, I have some pieces of slate for them > > but they usually like to pick the intake tube on the filter ;) > > > > Amber > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 41682	From: Marion Hogervorst	Date: 7/4/2009
Subject: Hi from Holland :)

Hi, My name is Marion, I am 44 years old and I live with my cat Ayla and 30+ guppies in Amsterdam, The Netherlands. My guppies live in a 30 litre tank on my bookshelfs and Ayla is not interested in guppies.... Silly cat.:) A collegue of mine who gave me 10 of his guppy's when I told him I had to buy them for 2 euro's a piece after my best friend gave me 4 from her population and I wanted some more. He had Oscars and kept the guppies to feed to the Oscars.. I know its rude *lol* Anyway.. he offered one of his his aquariums a while back (empty, but with all the equipment) because he had to move out of his house and his new one was not available yet. I turned it down, thinking: I have already loads of hobbies and where do I put that aquarium?? A few weeks ago it started to itch all over again: what if I put my computer back to my craft room/bedroom, then I have space for an aquarium, and I really want it because its sooo great; Then maybe I can get some Corydas or neon tetra's or.. And my collegue told me he still has an aquarium for me (60 cm wide). Not sure what comes with it, but we will discuss it soon :) So the dreaming started, then the books came, lots of books, and offcourse the Internet. So here I am, reading and learning. Here's a little bit more about me: I work as a librarian in the public library of Amsterdam at the moment (looking for a new job) "hence the lots of books" and in my spare time I am a tour guide volunteer at our local zoo Artis. We have a great Aquarium at the zoo, the oldest of the Netherlands, and maybe even Europe, Im not 100% sure of that. Its build in 1882. Further more I'm a fiber obsessed geek: I spin, knit, needlebind, card weave and sew on occasions. I also go to living history events as a female viking re-enacter, love going out to theatre, movies and my Irish pub with my friends. And then there is my computer. I love my computer. Thanx for letting me join this group. :) Marion My website hasn't been updated in ages, its still all about my Dolls houses, but I am rebuilding it and will show there my Aqua-adventures, the moment I have my new Aquarium. On my blog are some pictures of my "Guppywood" : http://booksandfiber.blogspot.com/2009/04/animal-pleasures.html -- Dagdag! Marion *** "Creativity is allowing yourself to make mistakes. Art is knowing which ones to keep.� �SCOTT ADAMS, THE DILBERT PRINCIPLE Website: www.marretje.nl Weblog: http://booksandfiber.blogspot.com/ My pictures/ mijn foto's: http://www.flickr.com/photos/marretje/ XXX-stitch: http://community.webshots.com/user/Heksenketel (\__/) (='.'=) This is Bunny. Copy and paste Bunny into your (")_(") signature to help him gain world domination [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 41683	From: Donna Ransome	Date: 7/4/2009
Subject: Re: Any safe tank mates for the Angel's?

Well I'll let you know. I've had them a month or two now and all is well. I have pH=7.8 from the tap and temp=78 in all my tanks. Thus they are not safe tank mates for Angels due to the water parameter differences. _____ From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Steve Szabo Sent: Friday, July 03, 2009 9:07 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Any safe tank mates for the Angel's? I cannot tell you about an expected life span for the snails. I've never kept them, but have done some reading. There does seem to be a lot of conflicting information about them out there. The only thing that seemed consistent was a lack of water quality parameters other than temperature, which, as I recall, was in the upper 70's. \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Donna Ransome Sent: Friday, July 03, 2009 6:13 PM To: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Any safe tank mates for the Angel's? I know there are marine nerites, but supposedly these are from streams in South Africa and Florida. I was thinking they live in fresh but migrate to the brackish mouth of the river to reproduce? They definitely look different than the marine nerites. Lifespan about one year? _____ From: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Steve Szabo Sent: Friday, July 03, 2009 3:39 PM To: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Any safe tank mates for the Angel's? From what I have read about nerite snails, they will not do well if kept in freshwater for long, they are more brackish to marine water snails. I cannot vouch for that statement, just something I read on the web, and I cannot quickly locate it right now. Something that I do not see mentioned is water hardness in the items I have read on these snails. They may really be OK if you have rock hard water, but survivability may diminish with a lowering hardness. Also some of the nerites seem to not make the change very well as they are being adapted to the freshwater. If that is a true statement, and, even if it is not, I'd look for those that have already been acclimated to fresh, then keep an eye on them over time to see how they are faring. \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Donna Ransome Sent: Friday, July 03, 2009 7:59 AM To: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Any safe tank mates for the Angel's? The plecos prefer the soft green algae. I have bristlenose that take care of the glass pretty well. I also have zebra nerite snails.they are new so not sure if they are eating the black beard algae or not, but they appear to be in at least one tank. They reproduce only in brackish water so they don't overrun the tank, and they are an attractive black/brown zebra stripe. _____ From: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Lenny V. aka GoldLenny Sent: Friday, July 03, 2009 3:06 AM To: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Any safe tank mates for the Angel's? A Pleco comes to mind. Preferably one of the dwarf species so it's not as much burden on the bioload. A Bristle Nosed or Clown Pleco both stay under 5". They are both "armored" catfish so they are at least designed to tolerate a little abuse and ward it off with their spines in their fins and the actual armored plating that covers their skin. Mongabay's profile has this for the SC section (Suggested Companions) for Angelfish: SC: Catfish (Armored, Pimelodids, Doradids, Loricarids), characins (Headstanders, hatchetfish, larger schooling tetras), cichlids (Angelfish, Discus, Waroo, Acaras, Ram, Eartheaters), gouramis, livebearers that can tolerate neutral water conditions. There are a couple of "armored suckermouth catfish" (aka algae eaters) that are called Clown Plecos. Here is one which only grows to around 3"... http://fish. <http://fish. <http://fish. <http://fish.mongabay.com/species/Peckoltia_pulcher.html> mongabay.com/species/Peckoltia_pulcher.html> mongabay.com/species/Peckoltia_pulcher.html> mongabay.com/species/Peckoltia_pulcher.html If it is too small and can't deal with your Terrorist Angelfish, then you could always move it to another tank since it is small enough to fit most of your tanks. Here are the others that are called Clown Plecos and look very similar. 3.9" - http://www.planetca <http://www.planetca <http://www.planetca <http://www.planetcatfish.com/catelog/species.php?species_id=734> tfish.com/catelog/species.php?species_id=734> tfish.com/catelog/species.php?species_id=734> tfish.com/catelog/species.php?species_id=734 2.4" - http://www.planetca <http://www.planetca <http://www.planetca <http://www.planetcatfish.com/catelog/species.php?species_id=736> tfish.com/catelog/species.php?species_id=736> tfish.com/catelog/species.php?species_id=736> tfish.com/catelog/species.php?species_id=736 Of course, the Bristle Nosed grows closer to the 5" range and a couple of species from the Ancistrus Genus are commonly called Bristlenose Catfish or Bristle Nosed Plecos. The males get the actual bristles on their noses whereas the females look "normal". http://www.planetca <http://www.planetca <http://www.planetca <http://www.planetcatfish.com/catelog/species.php?species_id=48> tfish.com/catelog/species.php?species_id=48> tfish.com/catelog/species.php?species_id=48> tfish.com/catelog/species.php?species_id=48 http://www.planetca <http://www.planetca <http://www.planetca <http://www.planetcatfish.com/catelog/species.php?species_id=49> tfish.com/catelog/species.php?species_id=49> tfish.com/catelog/species.php?species_id=49> tfish.com/catelog/species.php?species_id=49 Since all of the "armored catfish" above stay hidden a lot, because they like to hang out in/under wood, rocks, etc., and because they are typically more active at night, they should not threaten the Angelfish as much. If the Angelfish do seem to be a problem when mating, you could always put a divider in the tank to give the dwarf pleco one third of the tank during these mating periods. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> blogspot.com> blogspot.com> blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Amber Berglund Sent: Thursday, July 02, 2009 11:17 PM To: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Any safe tank mates for the Angel's? Okay is there any safe algae eater that I could put in with my 2 mated Angel's in their 55 gallon? Or maybe a bottom feeder? I dunno... Bigger snails maybe? Amber [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 41684	From: Raymond Wetzel	Date: 7/4/2009
Subject: Re: Hi from Holland :)

Hello Marion and welkom here from the States. Once you get the "fish bug" it always leaves you with an "itch" until you finally do something about it -- like getting another aquarium. I'm glad to see you'll be getting this one from your friend, it will be considerably larger than your guppy tank so you should be able to do more with it. Depending on its height, it should be either 56 litre or 75 litre (or very close to it). That local zoo/aquarium Artis sounds great. It must be fun being a tour guide volunteer there even though there's no pay -- just a great place to work and to be involved with. Lots of luck with your aquarium interest expansion, and enjoy yourself here. Don't hestitate to ask any questions you may have. It's always best to get the proper information before you proceed in this hobby. Goede dag aan u ook, Ray --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, Marion Hogervorst <mhogervorst@...> wrote: > > Hi, > My name is Marion, I am 44 years old and I live with my cat Ayla and 30+ > guppies in Amsterdam, The Netherlands. My guppies live in a 30 litre tank on > my bookshelfs and Ayla is not interested in guppies.... Silly cat.:) > > A collegue of mine who gave me 10 of his guppy's when I told him I had to > buy them for 2 euro's a piece after my best friend gave me 4 from her > population and I wanted some more. He had Oscars and kept the guppies to > feed to the Oscars.. I know its rude *lol* Anyway.. he offered one of his > his aquariums a while back (empty, but with all the equipment) because he > had to move out of his house and his new one was not available yet. I turned > it down, thinking: I have already loads of hobbies and where do I put that > aquarium?? > > A few weeks ago it started to itch all over again: what if I put my computer > back to my craft room/bedroom, then I have space for an aquarium, and I > really want it because its sooo great; > Then maybe I can get some Corydas or neon tetra's or.. And my collegue told > me he still has an aquarium for me (60 cm wide). Not sure what comes with > it, but we will discuss it soon :) So the dreaming started, then the books > came, lots of books, and offcourse the Internet. So here I am, reading and > learning. > > Here's a little bit more about me: I work as a librarian in the public > library of Amsterdam at the moment (looking for a new job) "hence the lots > of books" and in my spare time I am a tour guide volunteer at our local zoo > Artis. We have a great Aquarium at the zoo, the oldest of the Netherlands, > and maybe even Europe, Im not 100% sure of that. Its build in 1882. Further > more I'm a fiber obsessed geek: I spin, knit, needlebind, card weave and sew > on occasions. I also go to living history events as a female viking > re-enacter, love going out to theatre, movies and my Irish pub with my > friends. And then there is my computer. I love my computer. > > Thanx for letting me join this group. :) > > Marion > > My website hasn't been updated in ages, its still all about my Dolls houses, > but I am rebuilding it and will show there my Aqua-adventures, the moment I > have my new Aquarium. On my blog are some pictures of my "Guppywood" : > http://booksandfiber.blogspot.com/2009/04/animal-pleasures.html > -- > Dagdag! > Marion > > *** > "Creativity is allowing yourself to make mistakes. Art is knowing which ones > to keep." > —SCOTT ADAMS, THE DILBERT PRINCIPLE > > Website: www.marretje.nl > Weblog: http://booksandfiber.blogspot.com/ > My pictures/ mijn foto's: http://www.flickr.com/photos/marretje/ > XXX-stitch: http://community.webshots.com/user/Heksenketel > (\__/) > (='.'=) This is Bunny. Copy and paste Bunny into your > (")_(") signature to help him gain world domination > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 41685	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 7/4/2009
Subject: Re: Oh my, my ram's are spawning already! LOL

I see that Craigslist has a section for Anchorage, Alaska but it doesn't have any other City sections, just the entire State which advertises on the Anchorage page... but it is FREE. http://anchorage.craigslist.org/ You can find aquarium stuff in the "For Sale/Wanted" section http://anchorage.craigslist.org/sss/ and also in the Community>Pets section http://anchorage.craigslist.org/pet/. In case you aren't familiar with Craigslist, you can search the "For Sale" section for "aquarium" or "fish" and find stuff for sale or wanted. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Amber Berglund Sent: Saturday, July 04, 2009 1:43 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Oh my, my ram's are spawning already! LOL Good idea, I could just advertise locally. Amber Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > > > But there's limited or practically NO competition on the island so you > can sell your fish for higher dollar amounts, still lower than the > LFS, and not have to worry about shipping and you could even deliver > the fish to your customers and help acclimate them, for a fee if they > like. > > Nothing wrong with selling over the net too but go for your higher ROI > first. > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> (Links to any articles referenced in > above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels > and also under Archives by Year, Month) > > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On Behalf Of Amber Berglund > Sent: Saturday, July 04, 2009 12:42 AM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Oh my, my ram's are spawning already! LOL > > Why sell just on the island? I have discount shipping I could offer > the best deal on aquabid, LOL. > Hmm maybe I better hide now ;) > > Amber > > Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > > > > > > Sounds like "Amber's Cichlids And More Fish Store" is close to a > > reality on Ketchikan Island. Do they have a Craigslist for Ketchikan? > > Free advertising if they do! > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>> > (Links to any articles referenced in > > above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under > > Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On Behalf Of Amber Berglund > > Sent: Saturday, July 04, 2009 12:31 AM > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > Subject: [AquaticLife] Oh my, my ram's are spawning already! LOL > > > > Okay so tonight while watching the new fish, the rams have all > > paired off and formed their territories and chase the "intruders" > > out. Well while watching I noticed one female was cleaning a bit > > more than normal (picking at a shell), upon closer inspection she > > was eating unfertile eggs and then depositing new ones while the > > male guarded above her. It was so cute! They are much more docile > > when spawning than > the Angel's thank goodness. > > Oh and the Angel's have calmed down and seem to have gotten used to > > the new tank, I planted a bunch of new plants today that just > > arrived (mostly crypts), and added a good bit of floating hornwort > > and duckweed. > > They seem happy and hungry like normal, just waiting to see if they > > go into spawning mode again or not, I have some pieces of slate for > > them but they usually like to pick the intake tube on the filter ;) > > > > Amber > > ------------------------------------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the home page. Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com to receive the digest, which includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com for the No E-Mail option where you will still be able to read messages on the group and post replies. Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com to receive individual e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 41686	From: Dora Smith	Date: 7/4/2009
Subject: Re: Live food suggestions please

If the ground is outright boggy, you might try mosquito larvae. Yours, Dora Smith Austin, TX tiggernut24@... ----- Original Message ----- From: "Steve Szabo" <steve@...> To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Thursday, July 02, 2009 9:04 PM Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Live food suggestions please Has the ground thawed up there yet? <g> Try some chopped earthworms. \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Amber Berglund Sent: Thursday, July 02, 2009 12:55 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Live food suggestions please Okay my severum seems mad when I feed him anything other than frozen foods, so I was going to try getting some live foods for him, are there any suggestions to start with that may appear tasty to him? I used to feed my oscars worms and such, but I want something to start with that should appear nice and tasty to him since he hasn't had anything worm like yet ;) LOL. I'd catch ants but they are hard to find up here, and I refuse to pour sugar on my floor in hopes of getting sugar ants, LOL. The LFS sells crickets but I'm not sure how small they are, I'd have to check, he still doesn't have a very big mouth, anything over a sinking pellet seems to be too big for him, although I saw him running around eyeing the baby platy's to see if they'd fit, perhaps they just don't taste good enough? I have at least 10 baby's running around in the 125 gallon tank with what looks to be more coming soon ;) Amber ------------------------------------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the home page. Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com to receive the digest, which includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com for the No E-Mail option where you will still be able to read messages on the group and post replies. Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com to receive individual e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 41687	From: Menagerie_Manager	Date: 7/4/2009
Subject: Plastic canvas question and OT- kitten

Does anybody know if it's safe to put plastic in an aquarium? I'm thinking of using it to make a safe zone in the 75G tank for the White Cloud minnows. The more I look at them and then at the goldies, the more I think that they will become snacks if only by accident at feeding time. If I can't satisfy myself that they will be safe with the goldies, then are there any other cold water fish that will stay small that I could add to the 20G tank? Is anyone in SE Michigan looking to adopt a kitten? The local stray abandoned one newborn in our garage yesterday and we haven't seen hide nor hair of her since. The kitten is doing well on KMR and his (?) umbilical cord dropped off overnight. He looks like he'll be a fluffy gray tabby like his mom, with white on his face, feet and tummy and a tiny white tip on the end of his tail. I seem to have a sign in my yard that only animals can see that says, "Former vet tech here. All strays and orphans welcome." DebR and the Three Goldfish (CB, Lucille, and Raven) (And one dog, two cats, 5 rats, and the newborn kitten) [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 41688	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 7/4/2009
Subject: Re: Plastic canvas question and OT- kitten

A perforated piece of plastic, cut to size, will make a nice divider for your tank. If you cannot find one, buy a piece of plexi, or acrylic and drill holes in it yourself. You may also find preformed tank dividers in your LFS. \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Menagerie_Manager Sent: Saturday, July 04, 2009 3:10 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Plastic canvas question and OT- kitten Does anybody know if it's safe to put plastic in an aquarium? I'm thinking of using it to make a safe zone in the 75G tank for the White Cloud minnows. The more I look at them and then at the goldies, the more I think that they will become snacks if only by accident at feeding time. If I can't satisfy myself that they will be safe with the goldies, then are there any other cold water fish that will stay small that I could add to the 20G tank? Is anyone in SE Michigan looking to adopt a kitten? The local stray abandoned one newborn in our garage yesterday and we haven't seen hide nor hair of her since. The kitten is doing well on KMR and his (?) umbilical cord dropped off overnight. He looks like he'll be a fluffy gray tabby like his mom, with white on his face, feet and tummy and a tiny white tip on the end of his tail. I seem to have a sign in my yard that only animals can see that says, "Former vet tech here. All strays and orphans welcome." DebR and the Three Goldfish (CB, Lucille, and Raven) (And one dog, two cats, 5 rats, and the newborn kitten)

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 41689	From: Dora Smith	Date: 7/4/2009
Subject: Re: Plastic canvas question and OT- kitten

How do you hold a piece of plastic canvas in place? Yours, Dora Smith Austin, TX tiggernut24@... ----- Original Message ----- From: "Steve Szabo" <steve@...> To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Saturday, July 04, 2009 2:27 PM Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Plastic canvas question and OT- kitten A perforated piece of plastic, cut to size, will make a nice divider for your tank. If you cannot find one, buy a piece of plexi, or acrylic and drill holes in it yourself. You may also find preformed tank dividers in your LFS. \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Menagerie_Manager Sent: Saturday, July 04, 2009 3:10 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Plastic canvas question and OT- kitten Does anybody know if it's safe to put plastic in an aquarium? I'm thinking of using it to make a safe zone in the 75G tank for the White Cloud minnows. The more I look at them and then at the goldies, the more I think that they will become snacks if only by accident at feeding time. If I can't satisfy myself that they will be safe with the goldies, then are there any other cold water fish that will stay small that I could add to the 20G tank? Is anyone in SE Michigan looking to adopt a kitten? The local stray abandoned one newborn in our garage yesterday and we haven't seen hide nor hair of her since. The kitten is doing well on KMR and his (?) umbilical cord dropped off overnight. He looks like he'll be a fluffy gray tabby like his mom, with white on his face, feet and tummy and a tiny white tip on the end of his tail. I seem to have a sign in my yard that only animals can see that says, "Former vet tech here. All strays and orphans welcome." DebR and the Three Goldfish (CB, Lucille, and Raven) (And one dog, two cats, 5 rats, and the newborn kitten) ------------------------------------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the home page. Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com to receive the digest, which includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com for the No E-Mail option where you will still be able to read messages on the group and post replies. Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com to receive individual e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 41690	From: Dora Smith	Date: 7/4/2009
Subject: Re: How many mosquito larvae do I feed one betta?

I think that's alot of mosquito larvae. And you have to factor in how long it takes him to run them down. Yours, Dora Smith Austin, TX tiggernut24@... ----- Original Message ----- From: "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@...> To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Tuesday, June 23, 2009 5:22 PM Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] How many mosquito larvae do I feed one betta? As a snack, just one or two, depending on their size. As a meal, no more than the fish can eat in a couple of minutes... kind of like the general rule of fish feeding. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Dora Smith Sent: Tuesday, June 23, 2009 1:49 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] How many mosquito larvae do I feed one betta? My betta loves mosquito larvae, and I understand they are highly nutritious; but how many do I feed him? Yours, Dora Smith Austin, TX tiggernut24@... ------------------------------------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the home page. Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com to receive the digest, which includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com for the No E-Mail option where you will still be able to read messages on the group and post replies. Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com to receive individual e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 41691	From: Dr. Norman Ali Khalaf	Date: 7/4/2009
Subject: Garra barreimiae wurayahi Khalaf, 2009 : A New Blind Cave Fish Subsp

Garra barreimiae wurayahi Khalaf, 2009 : A New Blind Cave Fish Subspecies from Wadi Al Wurayah Pools, Emirate of Fujairah, United Arab Emirates. By: Dr. Sc. Norman Ali Bassam Ali Taher Khalaf-Sakerfalke von Jaffa.* Website: http://emirati-blind-cave-fish.webs.com/ Abstract: A new subspecies of Blind Cave Fish of the genus Garra (Teleostei: Cyprinidae) from Wadi Al Wurayah pools, Emirate of Fujairah, United Arab Emirates is described. This subspecies is distinguished from the other three subspecies of Garra barreimiae living in Bahrain, Oman and United Arab Emirates, by its distinctive body colouration and the small size. It is morphologically and geographically distinct from the other subspecies. The new subspecies was named Garra barreimiae wurayahi Khalaf, 2009. During a field trip to Wadi Al Wurayah, the U.A.E.'s first mountain protected area, located in Al Hajar Mountains, Emirate of Fujairah, United Arab Emirates, on Friday the 26th June 2009, accompanied with my wife Ola and my daughter Nora, I inspected Wadi Al Wurayah pools and waterfall, and saw many blind cave fish (Garra barreimiae Fowler and Steinitz, 1956) swimming in the pool waters. These fish were observed, examined and measured. Description and Distinctive Features: After examining Garra barreimiae at the pools of Wadi Al Wurayah, I began comparing between the different Arabian Blind Cave Fish subspecies. There are three Garra barreimiae subspecies living in the Arabian Peninsula: The two Omani Blind Cave Fish subspecies Garra barreimiae barreimiae Fowler & Steinitz, 1956, from Al Buraimi Oasis; and Garra barreimiae gallagheri Krupp, 1988, from Seeq and Wadi Bani Khalid north of Muqal; and the Emirati Blind Cave Fish subspecies Garra barreimiae shawkahensis Banister and Clarke, 1977, from Wadi Shawkah, Emirate of Ras Al Khaimah. Garra barreimiae, named after the Al Buraimi Oasis, Oman, is by far the most common native freshwater fish species found in the United Arab Emirates. In many wadis Garra barreimiae is the only fish present. The Wadi Al Wurayah subspecies Garra barreimiae wurayahi Khalaf, 2009, have a small size. Young specimens are 1-4 centimeters, and adults are 4.5–7 centimeters. They are mottled brown in colour, typically dark but varying somewhat with the surroundings. Larger adults sometimes show more colourful red, white or blue markings, probably related to breeding status. Distribution: Garra barreimiae is endemic to Bahrain, United Arab Emirates and northern Oman. Separate subspecies have been recognized on the east and west flanks of the Hajar Mountains, respectively, but these cannot be distinguished by field observation alone. The subspecies Garra barreimiae wurayahi is endemic to Wadi Al Wurayah, Emirate of Fujairah, United Arab Emirates. The genus Garra is known from East Africa to South Asia and several other Garra species are endemic to the mountains of south-western Arabia, but the closest relatives of Garra barreimiae is thought to be the newly discovered Omani Garra smarti, and the Irani Garra persica, which is widespread in southern Iran. Natural History and Habitat: Garra barreimiae has a behavioural tendency to explore upstream, which probably facilitates dispersal when the wadis flow. Smaller adults have been observed to climb several meters up waterfalls, using the wet surface of the splash zone adjacent to the main flow of water, sometimes wriggling, sometimes jetting forward, resting periodically with pectoral fins spread, the mouth plate engaged for suction, and the tail twisted and pressed flat against the rock. They feed on detritus and algae and have a specialized mouth plate that functions as a suction device. They resemble aquarium catfish as they nuzzle their way over gravel and rock surfaces, but they dart about frantically when approached in shallow pools where they are vulnerable to terrestrial and avian predators. Little is known about the life history of G. barreimiae in the wild. Several anecdotal reports exist of the release of eggs and sperm during transport of specimens, provoking speculation that spawning may be triggered by turbulence, mimicking that of a wadi in spate. G. barreimiae will cannibalize its own eggs if conditions permit. Experiments have shown that G. barreimiae can tolerate water temperatures up to ca. 40ºC (104ºF) and salinity up to one-third that of sea water, but they usually live in water temperature between 18°C - 24°C, and pH range: 6.5 - 7.5; and dH range: 10 – 20. Garra and Locals: Garra barreimiae is caught and eaten by human residents of the Hajar Mountains, even today. The normal technique employs a V-shaped stone dam to channel the fish onto a portable sieve-like platform made from palm ribs, wire mesh or nylon netting. This can be very effective, eliminating all but the very smallest fish in the area, but only G. barreimiae is taken for food, even when other species are present. Status: Vulnerable (IUCN). Conclusion: After examining the Garra barreimiae at Wadi Al Wurayah shallow pools, and comparing the different Arabian Blind Cave Fish subspecies, and referring to many zoological references, and searching the Internet, I came finally to a conclusion that we are in front of a new subspecies of the Blind Cave Fish from Wadi Al Wurayah pools, Emirate of Fujairah, United Arab Emirates. I gave it the scientific name Garra barreimiae wurayahi, new subspecies. The subspecies name "wurayahi" is Latin for Wadi Al Wurayah. Garra barreimiae wurayahi, new subspecies: Scientific trinomial name: Garra barreimiae wurayahi Khalaf, 2009. Common Name: Emirati Blind Cave Fish, Wadi Al Wurayah Blind Cave Fish. Location: Wadi Al Wurayah pools, Emirate of Fujairah, United Arab Emirates. Date of capture: 26th June, 2009. Acknowledgments: A Special thanks is due to my wife Ola Mostafa Khalaf, who assisted me with the preparation of the photos for this scientific article; and to both my wife and daughter Nora Norman Ali Khalaf, who shared with me the field trip to Wadi Al Wurayah, and gave me the opportunity to discover a new Emirati Blind Cave Fish Subspecies. References and Internet Websites: AquaNet - Lexikon - Hajar-Höhlensaugbarbe. AquaNet - Das Portal für Aquarianer. www.aquanet.de/content/lexikon/a108cd1d-063b-4226-8c1b-8f2703321c25?t=1 AquaNet - Lexikon - Hajar-Höhlenschmerle. AquaNet - Das Portal für Aquarianer. http://aquanet.de/content/lexikon/a108cd1d-063b-4226-8c1b-8f2703321c25?t=1 Arkive. Omani Blind Cave Fish (Garra barreimiae). www.arkive.org/omani-blind-cave-fish/garra-barreimiae/ Banister, K.E. (1984). A subterranean population of Garra barreimiae (Teleostei: Cyprinidae) from Oman, with comments on the concept of regressive evolution. Journal of Natural History, Volume 18, Number 6, November-December 1984 , pp. 927-938(12). Publisher: Taylor and Francis Ltd. www.ingentaconnect.com/content/tandf/tnah/1984/00000018/00000006/art00010 Berra, T.M. (1981). An Atlas of Distribution of the Freshwater Fish Families of the World, Univ. of Nebraska Press. Feulner, G.R. (1998). Wadi Fish of the U.A.E., Tribulus no. 8.2, pp. 16-22. Feulner , Gary R. and Peter L. Cunningham. The freshwater goby (Awaous aeneofuscus) in the Wadi Hatta watershed (U.A.E./Oman). www.enhg.org/trib/trib07.htm FRESHWATER FISHES. www.uaeinteract.com/uaeint_misc/teanh/022fwfi.pd Fujairah Wadi becomes first protected mountain habitat in the UAE. www.uaeyearbook.com/docs/Fujairah_Wadi_becomes_first_protected_mountain_habitat_\ in_the_UAE/25725.htm Garra barreimiae Fowler & Steinitz, 1956, Omani Blind Cave Fish. Aldemaro Romero Home Page. www.clt.astate.edu/aromero/new_page_101.htm Garra barreimiae barreimiae Fowler & Steinitz, 1956. http://fishbase.mnhn.fr/summary/SpeciesSummary.php?genusname=Garra&speciesname=b\ arreimiae+barreimiae Garra barreimiae shawkahensis Banister & Clarke, 1977. www.fishbase.gr/Summary/SpeciesSummary.php?id=27885&lang=German Garra Hamilton, 1822. www.funet.fi/pub/sci/bio/life/pisces/actinopterygii/cypriniformes/cyprinoidea/cy\ prinidae/cyprininae/garra/index.html Garra smarti new species of Arabian freshwater fish discovered in Oman. www.eyeofdubai.com/v1/news/newsdetail-31342.htm IUCN Red List of Threatened Species. Garra barreimiae. www.iucnredlist.org/details/8916/0/full Khalaf, Norman Ali Bassam (1980). Tabie't Al-Talawon fi Al-Haywanat (The Colouration of Animals). Al-Biology Bulletin. Number 1. January 1980, Safar 1401. Biological Society, Kuwait University, State of Kuwait. pp. 4-5. (in Arabic). Khalaf, Norman Ali Bassam (1981). Fawa'ed Alasmak. (The Benefits of Fishes). Al-Biology Magazine, Biological Society, Kuwait University, State of Kuwait. Number 1. Sunday 7.6.1981, 5. Sha'ban 1401. pp. 54-55. (in Arabic). Khalaf, Norman Ali Bassam (1982). Samak Al-Coelacanth (The Coelacanth Fish). Al-Biology Magazine. Number 2. February 1982. Biological Society, Kuwait University, State of Kuwait. pp. 14-15. (in Arabic). Khalaf, Norman (Translator) (1982). Al-Miah Al-Mulawatha Tohaded Al-Asmak Bi'ilinqiraad (Water Pollution threatens the Fish Fauna with Extinction). Al-Biology Bulletin. Number 18, Third Year, First Semester, Saturday 6.11.1982. Biological Society, Kuwait University, State of Kuwait. pp. 7. (Translation from German into Arabic). Khalaf, Norman Ali (1983). Al-Samaka Al-`Auljumiyah Al-Naqaqa fi Al-Khaleej Al-Arabi [The Toad Fish (Batrachus grunniens) in the Arabian Gulf]. Bulletin of the Biological Studies Club, Kuwait University, State of Kuwait. First Year, Number 3, 23 November 1983. pp. 10-11. (in Arabic). Khalaf, Norman Ali (Translator) (1983). Al-Tasjeel Al-Hay Al-Awal li-Samaket Kozat Al-Snobar (Monocentris japonicus, Houttuyn) min Al-Bahr Al-Ahmar [The Pinecone Fish (Monocentris japonicus, Houttuyn), A First Live Record from the Red Sea] by: Chaim Kropach. Bulletin of the Biological Studies Club, Kuwait University, State of Kuwait. First Year, Number 4, 7.12.1983. pp. 6-8. (in Arabic). Khalaf, Norman Ali B. (1986). The Schooling of Fishes. Gazelle: The Palestinian Biological Bulletin. Number 9. Fourth Year. Ramadan 1406. May 1986. Department of Zoology, University of Durham, Durham, United Kingdom. pp. 1-13. Khalaf, Norman Ali B. (1986). The Fish Fauna in Van Mildert Pond, Durham City, North East England. Gazelle: The Palestinian Biological Bulletin. Number 9. Fourth Year. Ramadan 1406. May 1986. Department of Zoology, University of Durham, Durham, United Kingdom. pp. 14-20. Khalaf, N.A.B. (1986). The Schooling of Sumatra Barbs (Barbus tetrazona tetrazona) and Minnows (Phoxinus phoxinus). Dissertation, Master of Science in Ecology, Departments of Zoology and Botany, University of Durham, England. September 1986. pps. 59 + iv. Khalaf, Norman Ali B. (1987). The Coelacanth (Latimeria chalumnae) in the Science and Natural History Museum, State of Kuwait. Gazelle: The Palestinian Biological Bulletin. Number 15. Fifth Year. July 1987. Rilchingen-Hanweiler, Germany. pp. 1-8. Khalaf, Norman Ali Bassam (1987). On a Collection of Devon Period Animal Fossils from the Saarland, in the Geologische Museum Saarberg in Saarbrücken, Germany. Gazelle: The Palestinian Biological Bulletin. Rilchingen-Hanweiler, Federal Republic of Germany. Number 15, Fifth Year, Thul Qi'dah 1407 AH, July 1987 AD. pp. 9-10. Khalaf, Norman Ali B. (1987). The Great White Shark (Carcharodon carcharias) from the State of Kuwait, Arabian Gulf. Gazelle: The Palestinian Biological Bulletin. Number 16. Fifth Year. Safar 1408 AH. September 1987 AD. Rilchingen-Hanweiler, Federal Republic of Germany. pp. 1-7. Khalaf, Norman Ali (1989). Qa'ema li-ba'd Asmak Al-Kuwait fi Al-Mathaf Al-`Ilmi Bi-Dawlat Al-Kuwait (A List of some Kuwaiti Fishes from the Science & Natural History Museum, State of Kuwait). Gazelle: The Palestinian Biological Bulletin. Number 19. Seventh Year. December 1989. Bonn 2-Bad Godesberg, Federal Republic of Germany. pp. 3. (in Arabic and English). Khalaf-von Jaffa, Norman Ali Bassam (1991). A Trip to Zoo Budapest, Hungary. Gazelle: The Palestinian Biological Bulletin. Bonn-Bad Godesberg, Federal Republic of Germany. Number 21, Ninth Year, January 1991. pp. 1-4. Khalaf-von Jaffa, Norman Ali Bassam (1991). The Gulf War and its effect on the Arabian Ecosystem (Part One). Gazelle: The Palestinian Biological Bulletin. Bonn-Bad Godesberg, Federal Republic of Germany. Number 23, Ninth Year, July 1991. pp. 1-12. Khalaf-von Jaffa, Norman Ali Bassam (1991). The Gulf War and its effect on the Arabian Ecosystem (Part Two). Gazelle: The Palestinian Biological Bulletin. Bonn-Bad Godesberg, Federal Republic of Germany. Number 24, Ninth Year, August 1991. pp. 1-10. Khalaf-von Jaffa, Norman Ali Bassam (1991). The Gulf War and its effect on the Arabian Ecosystem (Part Three). Gazelle: The Palestinian Biological Bulletin. Bonn-Bad Godesberg, Federal Republic of Germany. Number 25, Ninth Year, September 1991. pp. 1-7. Khalaf, Norman Ali Bassam (1992). Notes on the Biological Ecology of the Marshes in Southern Iraq. Gazelle: The Palestinian Biological Bulletin. Bonn-Bad Godesberg, Federal Republic of Germany. Number 29, Tenth Year, September 1992. pp. 1-9. (in Arabic). Khalaf, Norman Ali Bassam (1992). The United Nations Ecological Report confirms: The Regime of Saddam is destroying the Marshes (Al-Ahwar) Ecosystem. Sawt Al-Kuwait International Newspaper. Saturday 17 October 1992, 21 Rabi'e Al-Thani 1412. pp. 15. (in Arabic). Khalaf-von Jaffa, Norman Ali Bassam (1992). An Introduction to the Animal Life in Palestine. Gazelle. Gazelle: The Palestinian Biological Bulletin. Bonn-Bad Godesberg, Federal Republic of Germany. Number 30, Tenth Year, October 1992. pp. 1-7. (in Arabic). Khalaf-von Jaffa, Norman Ali B. (1993). Al-Mushkilatan Al-Ma'eyah wa Al-Bi'eyah fi Al-Dafah Al-Gharbiyah wa Qita' Ghaza Al-Muhtalain (Ka-Juzu' min Al-Sharq Al-Awsat) [The Water and the Ecological Problems in the Occupied West Bank and Gaza Strip (As Part of the Middle East)]. Gazelle: The Palestinian Biological Bulletin. Number 31. Eleventh Year. December 1993. Bonn, Federal Republic of Germany. pp. 1- 29. (in Arabic). Khalaf-von Jaffa, Norman Ali Bassam (1994). An Introduction to the Animal Life in Palestine. Shqae'q Al-Nouma'n (Anemone coronaria). A Quarterly Magazine Issued by the Program EAI (Education for Awareness and for Involvement). Environmental Education / Children for Nature Protection. In Cooperation with Dept. of General and Higher Education. P.L.O., Palestine. Number 4. Huzairan (June) 1994. pp. 16-21. (in Arabic). Acquaintance Card: Majallet Al-Ghazzal (Gazelle Magazine): The Palestinian Biological Bulletin. Bonn, Germany. Shqae'q Al-Nouma'n (Anemone coronaria). A Quarterly Magazine Issued by the Program EAI (Education for Awareness and for Involvement). Environmental Education / Children for Nature Protection. In Cooperation with Dept. of General and Higher Education. P.L.O., Palestine. Number 4. Huzairan (June) 1994. pp. 51-52. (in Arabic). Khalaf-von Jaffa, Norman Ali B.(1995). Alasmak fi Filistin (Die Fische von Palaestina / The Fishes of Palestine). Gazelle: The Palestinian Biological Bulletin. Number 33. Thirteenth Year. December 1995. Bonn, Germany. pp.1-35. (in Arabic). Khalaf, Ali Bassam (1997). Amir Al-Bahar Al-Arabi (The Arabian Sea Prince) Shihab Al-Deen Ahmad Bin Majed. Magazin der Akademie. Nummer 1. Zu Elke'da 1417 H, Maerz 1997. Koenig Fahad Akademie – Bonn, Bonn-Bad Godesberg, Deutschland. pp. 23-24. (in Arabic). Khalaf, Norman Ali Bassam (2001). The Extinct and Endangered Animals in Palestine. In: Gazelle: The Palestinian Biological Bulletin Home Page. Extinct and Endangered Animals and Reintroduction. http://gazelle.8m.net/photo3.html Khalaf-Sakerfalke von Jaffa, Norman Ali Bassam Ali Taher (Gründer) (seit Juni 2001). Yahoo! Deutschland Group: Wale und Delphine. http://de.groups.yahoo.com/group/Wale_und_Delphine/ Khalaf-von Jaffa, Norman Ali (2004). Gazelle: Das Palaestinensische Biologische Bulletin. Eine Wissenschaftliche Reise in Palaestina, Arabien und Europa zwischen 1983 – 2004. / Gazelle: The Palestinian Biological Bulletin. A Scientific Journey in Palestine, Arabia and Europe between 1983 – 2004. Erste Auflage, Juli 2004: 452 Seiten. Zweite erweiterte Auflage, August 2004: 460 Seiten. Norman Ali Khalaf, Bonn-Bad Godesberg, Germany. www.geocities.com/jaffacity/Gazelle_Bulletin.html Khalaf-von Jaffa, Norman Ali (2005). Der Komoren-Quastenflosser (Latimeria chalumnae) und der Manado-Quastenflosser (Latimeria menadoensis). Gazelle: The Palestinian Biological Bulletin. Number 38. Twenty Third Year. February 2005. Sharjah, United Arab Emirates. pp. 1-8. www.geocities.com/jaffacity/quastenflosser.html Khalaf-von Jaffa, Norman Ali (2005). The Story of Prophet Musa (Moses) and the Fish. Gazelle: The Palestinian Biological Bulletin. Sharjah, United Arab Emirates. Number 38, Twenty-third Year, February 2005. pp. 14-15. Khalaf-von Jaffa, Norman Ali (2005). Moses Perch (Lutjanus russelli, Bleeker 1849). Gazelle: The Palestinian Biological Bulletin. Sharjah, United Arab Emirates. Number 38, Twenty-third Year, February 2005. pp. 15. Khalaf-von Jaffa, Norman Ali (2005). The Fish of Musa (Samak Musa). Gazelle: The Palestinian Biological Bulletin. Sharjah, United Arab Emirates. Number 38, Twenty-third Year, February 2005. pp. 16. Khalaf-von Jaffa, Norman Ali (2005). Samak Al-Luchs (Al-Hamoor) or the Orange-Spotted Grouper (Epinephelus coioides) in Palestine (Mediterranean Sea) and the United Arab Emirates (Arabian Gulf). Gazelle: The Palestinian Biological Bulletin. Sharjah, United Arab Emirates. Number 39, Twenty-third Year, March 2005. pp. 1-6. Khalaf-von Jaffa, Norman Ali (2005). Jaffa (Yaffa): The History of an Old Palestinian Arab City on the Mediterranean Sea. Gazelle: The Palestinian Biological Bulletin. Sharjah, United Arab Emirates. Number 39, Twenty-third Year, March 2005. pp. 7-8. Khalaf-von Jaffa, Norman Ali (2005). The Andromeda Sea Monster of Jaffa. Gazelle: The Palestinian Biological Bulletin. Sharjah, United Arab Emirates. Number 39, Twenty-third Year, March 2005. pp. 8. Khalaf-von Jaffa, Norman Ali (2005). The Jewfish (Epinephelus itajara) / Der Riesenzackenbarsch oder Judenfisch (Epinephelus itajara). Gazelle: The Palestinian Biological Bulletin. Sharjah, United Arab Emirates. Number 39, Twenty-third Year, March 2005. pp. 9-12. Khalaf-von Jaffa, Norman Ali (2005). The Arabian Freshwater Fishes in the Arabia's Wildlife Centre, Sharjah Desert Park, Sharjah, United Arab Emirates. Gazelle: The Palestinian Biological Bulletin. Number 40, Twenty-third Year, April 2005. pp. 1-9. Sharjah, United Arab Emirates. http://www.geocities.com/jaffacity/Arabian_Freshwater_Fish.html Khalaf-von Jaffa, Norman Ali (Gründer) (seit Juni 2005). Der Quastenflosser: Coelacanth Latimeria Yahoo! Deutschland Group. http://de.groups.yahoo.com/group/Quastenflosser/ Khalaf-von Jaffa, Norman Ali (2005). The Koran Angelfish (Pomacanthus semicirculatus, Cuvier, 1831). Gazelle: The Palestinian Biological Bulletin. Number 44. Twenty-third Year. August 2005. Jamada Alakhira 1426. Sharjah, United Arab Emirates. pp. 1-8. http://www.geocities.com/jaffacity/Koran_Angelfish.html Khalaf-von Jaffa, Norman Ali (2005). Aquatica Arabica. An Aquatic Scientific Journey in Palestine, Arabia and Europe between 1980 - 2005 / Aquatica Arabica. Eine Aquatische Wissenschaftliche Reise in Palaestina, Arabien und Europa zwischen 1980 - 2005. Erste Auflage, August 2005: 376 Seiten. Norman Ali Khalaf, Rilchingen-Hanweiler, Bundesrepublik Deutschland & Sharjah, United Arab Emirates. www.geocities.com/jaffacity/Aquatica_Arabica.html Khalaf, N.A.B. (2005). The Schooling of Sumatra Barbs (Barbus tetrazona tetrazona) and Minnows (Phoxinus phoxinus). [M.Sc. Dissertation in Ecology, Departments of Zoology and Botany, University of Durham, England. September 1986. pps. 59 + iv]. In: Aquatica Arabica. An Aquatic Scientific Journey in Palestine, Arabia and Europe between 1980 - 2005. Erste Auflage, August 2005. Norman Ali Khalaf, Rilchingen-Hanweiler, Bundesrepublik Deutschland & Sharjah, United Arab Emirates. pp. 28-93. Khalaf-von Jaffa, Norman Ali (2005). The Rafah Zoo in the Rafah Refugee Camp, Gaza Strip, Palestine : A Story of Destruction by the Israeli Occupation Army. Gazelle: The Palestinian Biological Bulletin. Number 46, Twenty-third Year, October 2005, Ramadan 1426. pp. 1-11. Sharjah, United Arab Emirates. (in Arabic). Khalaf-von Jaffa, Norman Ali Bassam (2005). The Qalqilia Zoo and the Natural History Museum in the City of Qalqilia, West Bank, Occupied Palestine. Gazelle: The Palestinian Biological Bulletin. Number 47, Twenty-third Year, November 2005, Shawal 1426. pp. 1-10. Sharjah, United Arab Emirates. (in Arabic). Khalaf-von Jaffa, Norman Ali Bassam (Member of PALESTA) (2005). Palestinian Scientists and Technologists Abroad (PALESTA). Gazelle: The Palestinian Biological Bulletin. Number 47, Twenty-third Year, November 2005, Shawal 1426. pp. 11-12. Sharjah, United Arab Emirates. (in Arabic). Khalaf, Norman Ali Bassam Ali Taher (2006). Eine Persoenlichkeit aus Jaffa, Palaestina / A Personality from Jaffa, Palestine: Bassam Ali Taher Khalaf (Abu Ali) (1938-2006). Gazelle: The Palestinian Biological Bulletin. Number 56, Twenty-fourth Year, August 2006. pp. 8-19. Sharjah, United Arab Emirates. www.geocities.com/jaffacity/Bassam_Khalaf.html Khalaf-Sakerfalke von Jaffa, Norman Ali Bassam Ali Taher (2006). Ein Besuch im Neunkircher Zoo, Neunkirchen, Saarland, Deutschland / A Visit to Neunkirchen Zoo, Neunkirchen, Saarland, Germany. Gazelle: The Palestinian Biological Bulletin. Number 59, November 2006. pp. 1-25. Sharjah, United Arab Emirates. (in Arabisch / Arabic). http://khalaf.homepage24.de/text_88839638_85658724_59480041_deutsch.html Khalaf, Norman Ali Bassam Ali Taher (2007). Zum 1. Todestag : Eine Persoenlichkeit aus Jaffa, Palaestina / The First Death Anniversary : A Personality from Jaffa, Palestine : Bassam Ali Taher Khalaf (Abu Ali) (1938-2006). Gazelle: Das Palaestinensische Biologische Bulletin. Nummer 62, Februar 2007, Muharram 1428 AH. Seite 11. Sharjah, Vereinigte Arabische Emirate. www.geocities.com/jaffacity/Bassam_Khalaf.html Khalaf-Sakerfalke von Jaffa, Norman Ali Bassam Ali Taher (Gründer) (seit Juni 2007). Yahoo! Deutschland Group: Fauna Palaestina. http://de.groups.yahoo.com/group/Fauna_Palaestina/ Khalaf-Sakerfalke von Jaffa, Norman Ali Bassam Ali Taher (Gründer) (seit August 2007). Haie – Sharks Yahoo! Deutschland Group. http://de.groups.yahoo.com/group/Haie_Sharks/ Khalaf-Sakerfalke von Jaffa, Norman Ali Bassam Ali Taher (Gründer) (seit September 2007). Yahoo! Deutschland Group: Fauna Arabica. http://de.groups.yahoo.com/group/Fauna_Arabica/ Khalaf-Sakerfalke von Jaffa, Norman Ali Bassam Ali Taher (2007). Haywanat Filistin (Fauna of Palestine). Wikipedia, Al-Mawsu'a Al-Hurra (The Free Encyclopedia). Gazelle: The Palestinian Biological Bulletin. Number 69, Twenty-fifth Year, September 2007 CE, Sha'ban 1428 AH. pp. 1-4. (in Arabic). http://ar.wikipedia.org/wiki/%D8%AD%D9%8A%D9%88%D8%A7%D9%86%D8%A7%D8%AA_%D9%81%D\ 9%84%D8%B3%D8%B7%D9%8A%D9%86 Khalaf-Sakerfalke von Jaffa, Dr. Sc. Norman Ali Bassam Ali Taher (2007). A Whale Shark (Rhincodon typus, Smith 1828) caught off the Kuwaiti Coast: The Second Record from the State of Kuwait, Arabian / Persian Gulf. Gazelle: The Palestinian Biological Bulletin. Number 71, November 2007. pp. 1-20. Sharjah, United Arab Emirates. (Abstracts in English and Arabic). http://www.geocities.com/jaffacity/Whale_Shark_Kuwait.html Khalaf-Sakerfalke von Jaffa, Dr. Sc. Norman Ali Bassam Ali Taher (2007). Rhiniodon typus Smith, 1828 or Rhincodon typus Smith, 1829: The Story of a Scientific Name. Gazelle: The Palestinian Biological Bulletin. Number 71, November 2007. pp. 21. Sharjah, United Arab Emirates. http://www.geocities.com/jaffacity/Rhiniodon_Rhincodon.html Khalaf-Sakerfalke von Jaffa, Dr. Sc. Norman Ali Bassam Ali Taher (2007). Whale Sharks in Palestinian Waters: A Whale Shark (Rhincodon typus, Smith 1828) rescued near the Tantura Beach, Carmel Coast, North Palestine: The First Record from the Palestinian Mediterranean Coast. Gazelle: The Palestinian Biological Bulletin. Number 71, November 2007. pp. 22-23. Sharjah, United Arab Emirates. (Abstracts in English and Arabic). http://www.geocities.com/jaffacity/Whale_Shark_Palestine.html Khalaf-Sakerfalke von Jaffa, Dr. Sc. Norman Ali Bassam Ali Taher (2007). Whale Sharks in Palestinian Waters: Whale Sharks (Rhincodon typus, Smith 1828) near Um Al-Rashrash (Eilat) Beach, Gulf of Aqaba, South Palestine: First Records from the Palestinian Red Sea Coast. Gazelle: The Palestinian Biological Bulletin. Number 71, November 2007. pp. 23-26. Sharjah, United Arab Emirates. (Abstract in English and Arabic). http://www.geocities.com/jaffacity/Whale_Shark_Palestine.html Khalaf-Sakerfalke von Jaffa, Dr. Sc. Norman Ali Bassam Ali Taher (2007). An Ocean Sunfish or Common Mola (Mola mola, Linnaeus 1758) caught off the coast of Gaza: The First Record from Palestine, East Mediterranean Sea. Gazelle: The Palestinian Biological Bulletin. Number 72, December 2007, pp. 1-16. (Abstracts in English and Arabic). http://www.geocities.com/jaffacity/Gaza_Ocean_Sunfish.html Dr. Sc. Norman Ali Bassam Ali Taher Khalaf-Sakerfalke von Jaffa, Zoologist, Ecologist and Geologist : The Scientific References (1980-2008). http://www.geocities.com/jaffacity/Khalaf_References.html Khalaf-Sakerfalke von Jaffa, Dr.Sc. Norman Ali Bassam Ali Taher (2009). A Longcomb Sawfish (Pristis zijsron Bleeker, 1851) caught off the coast of Dibba, United Arab Emirates, Gulf of Oman. Gazelle: The Palestinian Biological Bulletin. Number 88, April 2009, Rabi'e Al Thani 1430 AH. pp. 1-14. http://dibba-sawfish.webs.com/ Khalaf-Sakerfalke von Jaffa, Dr.Sc. Norman Ali Bassam Ali Taher (2009). Garra barreimiae wurayahi Khalaf, 2009 : A New Blind Cave Fish Subspecies from Wadi Al Wurayah Pools, Emirate of Fujairah, United Arab Emirates. Gazelle: The Palestinian Biological Bulletin. Number 90, June 2009, Jumada Al-Akhera 1430 AH. pp. 1-15. http://emirati-blind-cave-fish.webs.com/ Krupp, F. (1983). Freshwater Fishes of Saudi Arabia and Adjacent Regions of the Arabian Peninsula, Fauna of Saudi Arabia, v. 5, pp. 568-636. New Garra discovered in Oman. www.newstin.co.uk/rel/uk/en-010-014596370 PISC_TYP. www.nmb.bs.ch/typenkatalog_pisces_internetversion.xls Wadi Wurayah becomes the UAE's first protected mountain area. www.surfbirds.com/sbirdsnews/archives/2009/04/wadi_wurayah_be.html Wadi Wurayah becomes UAE's first mountain protected area. www.uaeinteract.com/docs/Wadi_Wurayah_becomes_UAE%E2%80%99s_first_mountain_prote\ cted_area_/35448.htm Wadi Wurayah becomes the UAE's first mountain protected area. www.wildlifeextra.com/go/news/wadi-Wurayah.html#cr Wikipedia. Wadi Wurayah. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wadi_Wurayah Wikipedia. Garra barreimiae. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Garra_barreimiae *Dr. Sc. Norman Ali Bassam Ali Taher Khalaf-Sakerfalke von Jaffa is a Palestinian/German Zoologist, Ecologist and Geologist. Born in Saarbrücken, Saarland, Germany in 1962. Finished School in Kuwait. Studied Zoology, Geology and Ecology for the Bachelor, Master and Doctorate degrees at the Universities of Kuwait, Durham (England) and Ashwood (USA). Specialised in Animal Behaviour and Ecology. Done a lot of work and research in the Universities of Kuwait, Durham and Saarbrücken; and in the Zoos, Wild Parks and Field Studies in Palestine, Israel, Jordan, Syria, Lebanon, Iraq, Saudi Arabia, Kuwait, Emirates, Qatar, Oman, Egypt, Turkey, Greece, Bulgaria, Yugoslavia, Hungary, Holland, Belgium, Luxemburg, England, Scotland, Jersey Island, France, Austria, Switzerland and Germany. He is the author and publisher of "Gazelle : The Palestinian Biological Bulletin", the first Palestinian scientific journal worldwide (since 1983); and the author of five books: Gazelle: The Palestinian Biological Bulletin (2004) & Aquatica Arabica (2005) & Mammalia Arabica (2006) & Felidae Arabica (2007) & Carnivora Arabica (2008). He discovered and scientifically named three animals. Two Palestinian mammal subspecies from the Gaza Strip: The Palestine Golden Jackal (Canis aureus palaestina Khalaf, 2008) and the Gaza or Palestine House Mouse (Mus musculus gazaensis Khalaf, 2007), and the Emirati or Wadi Al Wurayah Blind Cave Fish (Garra barreimiae wurayahi Khalaf, 2009) from the Emirate of Fujairah, United Arab Emirates. He is working now as a free scientific researcher and publisher in the United Arab Emirates. He is married to Ola Khalaf and has one daughter, Nora.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 41692	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 7/4/2009
Subject: Re: Plastic canvas question and OT- kitten

I'm not sure what you mean by "Plastic canvas". Egg-crate lighting diffuser also works great and can easily be cut to size. Although the smaller fish could still swim through the openings to the larger fish side, if they feel threatened, they could easily swim back to their safe zone. They come in 3/8" or 1/2" square openings. Here's an example of egg-crate lighting diffuser. http://www.professionalplastics.com/EGGCRATELOUVERS-LIGHTING Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Steve Szabo Sent: Saturday, July 04, 2009 2:28 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Plastic canvas question and OT- kitten A perforated piece of plastic, cut to size, will make a nice divider for your tank. If you cannot find one, buy a piece of plexi, or acrylic and drill holes in it yourself. You may also find preformed tank dividers in your LFS. \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Menagerie_Manager Sent: Saturday, July 04, 2009 3:10 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Plastic canvas question and OT- kitten Does anybody know if it's safe to put plastic in an aquarium? I'm thinking of using it to make a safe zone in the 75G tank for the White Cloud minnows. The more I look at them and then at the goldies, the more I think that they will become snacks if only by accident at feeding time. If I can't satisfy myself that they will be safe with the goldies, then are there any other cold water fish that will stay small that I could add to the 20G tank? Is anyone in SE Michigan looking to adopt a kitten? The local stray abandoned one newborn in our garage yesterday and we haven't seen hide nor hair of her since. The kitten is doing well on KMR and his (?) umbilical cord dropped off overnight. He looks like he'll be a fluffy gray tabby like his mom, with white on his face, feet and tummy and a tiny white tip on the end of his tail. I seem to have a sign in my yard that only animals can see that says, "Former vet tech here. All strays and orphans welcome." DebR and the Three Goldfish (CB, Lucille, and Raven) (And one dog, two cats, 5 rats, and the newborn kitten)

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 41693	From: Rodrigues Gilbert	Date: 7/4/2009
Subject: Re: Hi from Holland :)

Aloha from Hawaii, I've been "infected" with the "fish bug" for nearly forty years and loving every minute of it :) Welcome to the group. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 41694	From: Menagerie_Manager	Date: 7/4/2009
Subject: Re: Plastic canvas question and OT- kitten

Are there any types of plastic that shouldn't go in an aquarium? I've been trying to find out what type the plastic canvas (the stuff from crafts stores used for counted needlepoint, and which I happen to have a supply of) is made of, but no luck. I don't really want to cordon off a huge section of the tank, just a safe zone for feeding time that the minnows can get into, but the goldfish cannot. DebR and the Three Goldfish (CB, Lucille, and Raven) ----- Original Message ----- From: "Steve Szabo" <steve@...> A perforated piece of plastic, cut to size, will make a nice divider for your tank. If you cannot find one, buy a piece of plexi, or acrylic and drill holes in it yourself. You may also find preformed tank dividers in your LFS. \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Menagerie_Manager Does anybody know if it's safe to put plastic in an aquarium? I'm thinking of using it to make a safe zone in the 75G tank for the White Cloud minnows. The more I look at them and then at the goldies, the more I think that they will become snacks if only by accident at feeding time. If I can't satisfy myself that they will be safe with the goldies, then are there any other cold water fish that will stay small that I could add to the 20G tank?

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 41695	From: Menagerie_Manager	Date: 7/4/2009
Subject: Re: Plastic canvas question and OT- kitten

I was thinking of making something similar to a fry enclosure, but with holes large enough for the minnows to get in and out through. I want to get the minnows used to going there for food during their quarantine period. Ideally I'd like to be able to lower it into the water at feeding time and then remove it when the goldfish have had their fill of their own food. If not, then suction cups and nylon thread to attach permanently. DebR and the Three Goldfish (CB, Lucille, and Raven) ----- Original Message ----- From: "Dora Smith" <tiggernut24@...> > How do you hold a piece of plastic canvas in place? > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Steve Szabo" <steve@...> > A perforated piece of plastic, cut to size, will make a nice divider for > your tank. If you cannot find one, buy a piece of plexi, or acrylic and > drill holes in it yourself. You may also find preformed tank dividers in > your LFS. > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] > Does anybody know if it's safe to put plastic in an aquarium? I'm > thinking of using it to make a safe zone in the 75G tank for the White > Cloud minnows. The more I look at them and then at the goldies, the > more I think that they will become snacks if only by accident at feeding > time. > If I can't satisfy myself that they will be safe with the goldies, > then are there any other cold water fish that will stay small that I > could add to the 20G tank?

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 41696	From: Menagerie_Manager	Date: 7/4/2009
Subject: Re: Plastic canvas question and OT- kitten

Plastic canvas is for needlepoint projects: http://www.anniesattic.com/plastic_canvas/list.html?cat_id=429 I could cut openings to accommodate the minnows and keep the goldies at bay. The egg crate lighting diffusers look like they already come with the right hole size. What are the chances of finding someone who'd sell me a single sheet? DebR and the Three Goldfish (CB, Lucille, and Raven) ----- Original Message ----- From: "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@...> I'm not sure what you mean by "Plastic canvas". Egg-crate lighting diffuser also works great and can easily be cut to size. Although the smaller fish could still swim through the openings to the larger fish side, if they feel threatened, they could easily swim back to their safe zone. They come in 3/8" or 1/2" square openings. Here's an example of egg-crate lighting diffuser. http://www.professionalplastics.com/EGGCRATELOUVERS-LIGHTING -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Steve Szabo A perforated piece of plastic, cut to size, will make a nice divider for your tank. If you cannot find one, buy a piece of plexi, or acrylic and drill holes in it yourself. You may also find preformed tank dividers in your LFS. -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Menagerie_Manager Does anybody know if it's safe to put plastic in an aquarium? I'm thinking of using it to make a safe zone in the 75G tank for the White Cloud minnows. The more I look at them and then at the goldies, the more I think that they will become snacks if only by accident at feeding time. If I can't satisfy myself that they will be safe with the goldies, then are there any other cold water fish that will stay small that I could add to the 20G tank?

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 41697	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 7/4/2009
Subject: Re: Plastic canvas question and OT- kitten

If the plastic canvas is what Deb R is telling us, you would need to make a frame for it to fit the tank. \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Dora Smith Sent: Saturday, July 04, 2009 4:22 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Plastic canvas question and OT- kitten How do you hold a piece of plastic canvas in place? Yours, Dora Smith Austin, TX tiggernut24@... ----- Original Message ----- From: "Steve Szabo" <steve@...> To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Saturday, July 04, 2009 2:27 PM Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Plastic canvas question and OT- kitten A perforated piece of plastic, cut to size, will make a nice divider for your tank. If you cannot find one, buy a piece of plexi, or acrylic and drill holes in it yourself. You may also find preformed tank dividers in your LFS. \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Menagerie_Manager Sent: Saturday, July 04, 2009 3:10 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Plastic canvas question and OT- kitten Does anybody know if it's safe to put plastic in an aquarium? I'm thinking of using it to make a safe zone in the 75G tank for the White Cloud minnows. The more I look at them and then at the goldies, the more I think that they will become snacks if only by accident at feeding time. If I can't satisfy myself that they will be safe with the goldies, then are there any other cold water fish that will stay small that I could add to the 20G tank? Is anyone in SE Michigan looking to adopt a kitten? The local stray abandoned one newborn in our garage yesterday and we haven't seen hide nor hair of her since. The kitten is doing well on KMR and his (?) umbilical cord dropped off overnight. He looks like he'll be a fluffy gray tabby like his mom, with white on his face, feet and tummy and a tiny white tip on the end of his tail. I seem to have a sign in my yard that only animals can see that says, "Former vet tech here. All strays and orphans welcome." DebR and the Three Goldfish (CB, Lucille, and Raven) (And one dog, two cats, 5 rats, and the newborn kitten)

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 41698	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 7/4/2009
Subject: Re: Plastic canvas question and OT- kitten

DebR, You might want to drop a line in inquiry to info@..., a manufacturer of the stuff, asking if they have any mildewcides, or other chemicals of the like in the plastic canvas explaining what you would like to try it for. Once they get done passing it around the office and the laughter dies down, you should get a reply of sorts. \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Menagerie_Manager Sent: Saturday, July 04, 2009 5:29 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Plastic canvas question and OT- kitten Are there any types of plastic that shouldn't go in an aquarium? I've been trying to find out what type the plastic canvas (the stuff from crafts stores used for counted needlepoint, and which I happen to have a supply of) is made of, but no luck. I don't really want to cordon off a huge section of the tank, just a safe zone for feeding time that the minnows can get into, but the goldfish cannot. DebR and the Three Goldfish (CB, Lucille, and Raven) ----- Original Message ----- From: "Steve Szabo" <steve@...> A perforated piece of plastic, cut to size, will make a nice divider for your tank. If you cannot find one, buy a piece of plexi, or acrylic and drill holes in it yourself. You may also find preformed tank dividers in your LFS. \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Menagerie_Manager Does anybody know if it's safe to put plastic in an aquarium? I'm thinking of using it to make a safe zone in the 75G tank for the White Cloud minnows. The more I look at them and then at the goldies, the more I think that they will become snacks if only by accident at feeding time. If I can't satisfy myself that they will be safe with the goldies, then are there any other cold water fish that will stay small that I could add to the 20G tank?

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 41699	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 7/4/2009
Subject: Re: Plastic canvas question and OT- kitten

DebR, You should be able to find that stuff down at Home Depot or Lowes. If you have a large lighting outlet near you, they should also carry it, plus you may get to look at a lot of really cool lights and lamps while you are there (and shake your head at the outrageous prices on a lot of that stuff). \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Menagerie_Manager Sent: Saturday, July 04, 2009 6:05 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Plastic canvas question and OT- kitten Plastic canvas is for needlepoint projects: http://www.anniesattic.com/plastic_canvas/list.html?cat_id=429 I could cut openings to accommodate the minnows and keep the goldies at bay. The egg crate lighting diffusers look like they already come with the right hole size. What are the chances of finding someone who'd sell me a single sheet? DebR and the Three Goldfish (CB, Lucille, and Raven) ----- Original Message ----- From: "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@...> I'm not sure what you mean by "Plastic canvas". Egg-crate lighting diffuser also works great and can easily be cut to size. Although the smaller fish could still swim through the openings to the larger fish side, if they feel threatened, they could easily swim back to their safe zone. They come in 3/8" or 1/2" square openings. Here's an example of egg-crate lighting diffuser. http://www.professionalplastics.com/EGGCRATELOUVERS-LIGHTING -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Steve Szabo A perforated piece of plastic, cut to size, will make a nice divider for your tank. If you cannot find one, buy a piece of plexi, or acrylic and drill holes in it yourself. You may also find preformed tank dividers in your LFS. -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Menagerie_Manager Does anybody know if it's safe to put plastic in an aquarium? I'm thinking of using it to make a safe zone in the 75G tank for the White Cloud minnows. The more I look at them and then at the goldies, the more I think that they will become snacks if only by accident at feeding time. If I can't satisfy myself that they will be safe with the goldies, then are there any other cold water fish that will stay small that I could add to the 20G tank?

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 41700	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 7/4/2009
Subject: Re: Plastic canvas question and OT- kitten

You can usually find smaller pieces at a lighting center and some of the big-box home centers. You might even find scraps at a lighting center that you might get for free. They normally come in 2' x 4' sections for use with fluorescent lighting in offices, elevators, etc. You really only need a five 6" x 6" pieces that you can tie together with nylon ties or fishing line, sand off any rough edges and add a piece of clothes hanger to use as a hanger and you're good to go for what you wanted. But, really, if your minnows are larger than fry, most of your goldfish will not likely try to snack on them. Lots of people keep various minnow type fish in with their goldfish and the goldfish do not eat them. Goldfish are omnivores but tend to prefer a more herbivorous diet. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Menagerie_Manager Sent: Saturday, July 04, 2009 5:05 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Plastic canvas question and OT- kitten Plastic canvas is for needlepoint projects: http://www.anniesattic.com/plastic_canvas/list.html?cat_id=429 I could cut openings to accommodate the minnows and keep the goldies at bay. The egg crate lighting diffusers look like they already come with the right hole size. What are the chances of finding someone who'd sell me a single sheet? DebR and the Three Goldfish (CB, Lucille, and Raven) ----- Original Message ----- From: "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@...> I'm not sure what you mean by "Plastic canvas". Egg-crate lighting diffuser also works great and can easily be cut to size. Although the smaller fish could still swim through the openings to the larger fish side, if they feel threatened, they could easily swim back to their safe zone. They come in 3/8" or 1/2" square openings. Here's an example of egg-crate lighting diffuser. http://www.professionalplastics.com/EGGCRATELOUVERS-LIGHTING -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Steve Szabo A perforated piece of plastic, cut to size, will make a nice divider for your tank. If you cannot find one, buy a piece of plexi, or acrylic and drill holes in it yourself. You may also find preformed tank dividers in your LFS. -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Menagerie_Manager Does anybody know if it's safe to put plastic in an aquarium? I'm thinking of using it to make a safe zone in the 75G tank for the White Cloud minnows. The more I look at them and then at the goldies, the more I think that they will become snacks if only by accident at feeding time. If I can't satisfy myself that they will be safe with the goldies, then are there any other cold water fish that will stay small that I could add to the 20G tank?

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 41701	From: Menagerie_Manager	Date: 7/4/2009
Subject: Re: Plastic canvas question and OT- kitten

Thanks! I'll send off an email to them. Since this is a craft item it might not surprise them at all that I want to do something weird with it. Crafty people are known for going off on creative tangents. Last summer, when hubby broke his pelvis, I had a nurse put a length of foam water pipe insulation over the proximal end of his traction brace so it wouldn't dig into his groin. DebR and the Three Goldfish (CB, Lucille, and Raven) ----- Original Message ----- From: "Steve Szabo" <steve@...> You might want to drop a line in inquiry to info@..., a manufacturer of the stuff, asking if they have any mildewcides, or other chemicals of the like in the plastic canvas explaining what you would like to try it for. Once they get done passing it around the office and the laughter dies down, you should get a reply of sorts. -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Menagerie_Manager Are there any types of plastic that shouldn't go in an aquarium? I've been trying to find out what type the plastic canvas (the stuff from crafts stores used for counted needlepoint, and which I happen to have a supply of) is made of, but no luck. I don't really want to cordon off a huge section of the tank, just a safe zone for feeding time that the minnows can get into, but the goldfish cannot. DebR and the Three Goldfish (CB, Lucille, and Raven) ----- Original Message ----- From: "Steve Szabo" <steve@...> A perforated piece of plastic, cut to size, will make a nice divider for your tank. If you cannot find one, buy a piece of plexi, or acrylic and drill holes in it yourself. You may also find preformed tank dividers in your LFS. \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Menagerie_Manager Does anybody know if it's safe to put plastic in an aquarium? I'm thinking of using it to make a safe zone in the 75G tank for the White Cloud minnows. The more I look at them and then at the goldies, the more I think that they will become snacks if only by accident at feeding time. If I can't satisfy myself that they will be safe with the goldies, then are there any other cold water fish that will stay small that I could add to the 20G tank?

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 41702	From: Dora Smith	Date: 7/4/2009
Subject: Re: [Bulk] RE: [AquaticLife] Plastic canvas question and OT- kitten

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Plastic_canvas Yours, Dora Smith Austin, TX tiggernut24@... ----- Original Message ----- From: "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@...> To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Saturday, July 04, 2009 3:52 PM Subject: [Bulk] RE: [AquaticLife] Plastic canvas question and OT- kitten I'm not sure what you mean by "Plastic canvas". Egg-crate lighting diffuser also works great and can easily be cut to size. Although the smaller fish could still swim through the openings to the larger fish side, if they feel threatened, they could easily swim back to their safe zone. They come in 3/8" or 1/2" square openings. Here's an example of egg-crate lighting diffuser. http://www.professionalplastics.com/EGGCRATELOUVERS-LIGHTING Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Steve Szabo Sent: Saturday, July 04, 2009 2:28 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Plastic canvas question and OT- kitten A perforated piece of plastic, cut to size, will make a nice divider for your tank. If you cannot find one, buy a piece of plexi, or acrylic and drill holes in it yourself. You may also find preformed tank dividers in your LFS. \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Menagerie_Manager Sent: Saturday, July 04, 2009 3:10 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Plastic canvas question and OT- kitten Does anybody know if it's safe to put plastic in an aquarium? I'm thinking of using it to make a safe zone in the 75G tank for the White Cloud minnows. The more I look at them and then at the goldies, the more I think that they will become snacks if only by accident at feeding time. If I can't satisfy myself that they will be safe with the goldies, then are there any other cold water fish that will stay small that I could add to the 20G tank? Is anyone in SE Michigan looking to adopt a kitten? The local stray abandoned one newborn in our garage yesterday and we haven't seen hide nor hair of her since. The kitten is doing well on KMR and his (?) umbilical cord dropped off overnight. He looks like he'll be a fluffy gray tabby like his mom, with white on his face, feet and tummy and a tiny white tip on the end of his tail. I seem to have a sign in my yard that only animals can see that says, "Former vet tech here. All strays and orphans welcome." DebR and the Three Goldfish (CB, Lucille, and Raven) (And one dog, two cats, 5 rats, and the newborn kitten) ------------------------------------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the home page. Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com to receive the digest, which includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com for the No E-Mail option where you will still be able to read messages on the group and post replies. Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com to receive individual e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 41703	From: Menagerie_Manager	Date: 7/4/2009
Subject: Re: Plastic canvas question and OT- kitten

Thanks again, Steve. I'll go have a look see. DebR and the Three Goldfish (CB, Lucille, and Raven) ----- Original Message ----- From: "Steve Szabo" <steve@...> You should be able to find that stuff down at Home Depot or Lowes. If you have a large lighting outlet near you, they should also carry it, plus you may get to look at a lot of really cool lights and lamps while you are there (and shake your head at the outrageous prices on a lot of that stuff). \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Menagerie_Manager Plastic canvas is for needlepoint projects: http://www.anniesattic.com/plastic_canvas/list.html?cat_id=429 I could cut openings to accommodate the minnows and keep the goldies at bay. The egg crate lighting diffusers look like they already come with the right hole size. What are the chances of finding someone who'd sell me a single sheet? ----- Original Message ----- From: "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@...> I'm not sure what you mean by "Plastic canvas". Egg-crate lighting diffuser also works great and can easily be cut to size. Although the smaller fish could still swim through the openings to the larger fish side, if they feel threatened, they could easily swim back to their safe zone. They come in 3/8" or 1/2" square openings. Here's an example of egg-crate lighting diffuser. http://www.professionalplastics.com/EGGCRATELOUVERS-LIGHTING -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Steve Szabo A perforated piece of plastic, cut to size, will make a nice divider for your tank. If you cannot find one, buy a piece of plexi, or acrylic and drill holes in it yourself. You may also find preformed tank dividers in your LFS. -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Menagerie_Manager Does anybody know if it's safe to put plastic in an aquarium? I'm thinking of using it to make a safe zone in the 75G tank for the White Cloud minnows. The more I look at them and then at the goldies, the more I think that they will become snacks if only by accident at feeding time. If I can't satisfy myself that they will be safe with the goldies, then are there any other cold water fish that will stay small that I could add to the 20G tank?

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 41704	From: Menagerie_Manager	Date: 7/4/2009
Subject: Re: Plastic canvas question and OT- kitten

Thanks, Lenny. You and Steve have given me enough info to get started. I also just remembered that I still have that tenite tubing that never got to be a water bridge. I bought 4 end caps to go with it, so I may just drill holes in a length of that. I'm trying to keep costs down, as I just spent $100 of birthday money on aquarium stuff and hubby's eyes are starting to glaze over when I talk about another fish related project. The minnows are still pretty small, but growing. I'm not concerned about the being hunted down, but their body circumference is not much bigger than that of the food pellets and if they were to get in the way, I'm afraid they'd get sucked in and munched. Now to do some googling and find out how long after birth a kitten should start pooping. DebR and the Three Goldfish (CB, Lucille, and Raven) ----- Original Message ----- From: "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@...> You can usually find smaller pieces at a lighting center and some of the big-box home centers. You might even find scraps at a lighting center that you might get for free. They normally come in 2' x 4' sections for use with fluorescent lighting in offices, elevators, etc. You really only need a five 6" x 6" pieces that you can tie together with nylon ties or fishing line, sand off any rough edges and add a piece of clothes hanger to use as a hanger and you're good to go for what you wanted. But, really, if your minnows are larger than fry, most of your goldfish will not likely try to snack on them. Lots of people keep various minnow type fish in with their goldfish and the goldfish do not eat them. Goldfish are omnivores but tend to prefer a more herbivorous diet. -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Menagerie_Manager Plastic canvas is for needlepoint projects: http://www.anniesattic.com/plastic_canvas/list.html?cat_id=429 I could cut openings to accommodate the minnows and keep the goldies at bay. The egg crate lighting diffusers look like they already come with the right hole size. What are the chances of finding someone who'd sell me a single sheet? ----- Original Message ----- From: "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@...> I'm not sure what you mean by "Plastic canvas". Egg-crate lighting diffuser also works great and can easily be cut to size. Although the smaller fish could still swim through the openings to the larger fish side, if they feel threatened, they could easily swim back to their safe zone. They come in 3/8" or 1/2" square openings. Here's an example of egg-crate lighting diffuser. http://www.professionalplastics.com/EGGCRATELOUVERS-LIGHTING -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Steve Szabo A perforated piece of plastic, cut to size, will make a nice divider for your tank. If you cannot find one, buy a piece of plexi, or acrylic and drill holes in it yourself. You may also find preformed tank dividers in your LFS. -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Menagerie_Manager Does anybody know if it's safe to put plastic in an aquarium? I'm thinking of using it to make a safe zone in the 75G tank for the White Cloud minnows. The more I look at them and then at the goldies, the more I think that they will become snacks if only by accident at feeding time. If I can't satisfy myself that they will be safe with the goldies, then are there any other cold water fish that will stay small that I could add to the 20G tank?

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 41705	From: pam andress	Date: 7/4/2009
Subject: Re: Plastic canvas question and OT- kitten

They should pretty much right away, but you have to stimulate them to do it. (Both ends) Pam Now to do some googling and find out how long after birth a kitten should start pooping. __. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 41706	From: Menagerie_Manager	Date: 7/4/2009
Subject: Re: OT- kitten

Thanks, Pam! That's what I thought. I've been stimulating him and he pees, but only a teeny amount of poop last night and none since. He's seems slightly bloated,but not in any distress. I think I'm going try a higher water to KMR ratio and see if that helps. DebR and the Three Goldfish (CB, Lucille, and Raven) ----- Original Message ----- From: "pam andress" <pamandress23@...> They should pretty much right away, but you have to stimulate them to do it. (Both ends) -----------Original Message--------- Now to do some googling and find out how long after birth a kitten should start pooping.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 41707	From: Donna Ransome	Date: 7/4/2009
Subject: Re: Plastic canvas question and OT- kitten

I use the plastic canvas to make grills between my background (in tank) and the filter intakes behind.3 years, safe so far. _____ From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Menagerie_Manager Sent: Saturday, July 04, 2009 3:10 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Plastic canvas question and OT- kitten Does anybody know if it's safe to put plastic in an aquarium? I'm thinking of using it to make a safe zone in the 75G tank for the White Cloud minnows. The more I look at them and then at the goldies, the more I think that they will become snacks if only by accident at feeding time. If I can't satisfy myself that they will be safe with the goldies, then are there any other cold water fish that will stay small that I could add to the 20G tank? Is anyone in SE Michigan looking to adopt a kitten? The local stray abandoned one newborn in our garage yesterday and we haven't seen hide nor hair of her since. The kitten is doing well on KMR and his (?) umbilical cord dropped off overnight. He looks like he'll be a fluffy gray tabby like his mom, with white on his face, feet and tummy and a tiny white tip on the end of his tail. I seem to have a sign in my yard that only animals can see that says, "Former vet tech here. All strays and orphans welcome." DebR and the Three Goldfish (CB, Lucille, and Raven) (And one dog, two cats, 5 rats, and the newborn kitten) [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 41708	From: pam andress	Date: 7/4/2009
Subject: Re: OT- kitten

Sounds like a plan. What are you using to stimulate? I know they say to use a wet cotton ball, but I used to use a wet wash cloth. I figure the cats tongue is rough, so why not. Pam To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com From: menagerie_manager@... Date: Sat, 4 Jul 2009 22:42:08 -0400 Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] OT- kitten Thanks, Pam! That's what I thought. I've been stimulating him and he pees, but only a teeny amount of poop last night and none since. He's seems slightly bloated,but not in any distress. I think I'm going try a higher water to KMR ratio and see if that helps. DebR and the Three Goldfish (CB, Lucille, and Raven) ----- Original Message ----- From: "pam andress" <pamandress23@...> They should pretty much right away, but you have to stimulate them to do it. (Both ends) -----------Original Message--------- Now to do some googling and find out how long after birth a kitten should start pooping. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 41709	From: Menagerie_Manager	Date: 7/4/2009
Subject: Re: Plastic canvas question and OT- kitten

At least your fish ain't complainin', eh? OK, good to know in case I don't get a reply from any manufacturers. I've also considered using them to make a grid for my plastic plants to keep them in place. Thanks, Donna! DebR and the Three Goldfish (CB, Lucille, and Raven) ----- Original Message ----- From: "Donna Ransome" <djransome@...> I use the plastic canvas to make grills between my background (in tank) and the filter intakes behind.3 years, safe so far. _____ From: Menagerie_Manager Does anybody know if it's safe to put plastic in an aquarium? I'm thinking of using it to make a safe zone in the 75G tank for the White Cloud minnows. The more I look at them and then at the goldies, the more I think that they will become snacks if only by accident at feeding time. If I can't satisfy myself that they will be safe with the goldies, then are there any other cold water fish that will stay small that I could add to the 20G tank?

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 41710	From: Menagerie_Manager	Date: 7/4/2009
Subject: Re: OT- kitten

I use a bounty paper towel. He pees immediately, so it gets wet quick. Then, I use a clean damp one to clean up after. No chafing so far. DebR and the Three Goldfish (CB, Lucille, and Raven) ----- Original Message ----- From: "pam andress" <pamandress23@...> Sounds like a plan. What are you using to stimulate? I know they say to use a wet cotton ball, but I used to use a wet wash cloth. I figure the cats tongue is rough, so why not. ---------------- From: menagerie_manager@... Thanks, Pam! That's what I thought. I've been stimulating him and he pees, but only a teeny amount of poop last night and none since. He's seems slightly bloated,but not in any distress. I think I'm going try a higher water to KMR ratio and see if that helps. ----- Original Message ----- From: "pam andress" <pamandress23@...> They should pretty much right away, but you have to stimulate them to do it. (Both ends) -----------Original Message--------- Now to do some googling and find out how long after birth a kitten should start pooping.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 41711	From: pam andress	Date: 7/4/2009
Subject: Re: OT- kitten

That works. Good luck with adding more water to the formula. Pam To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com From: menagerie_manager@... Date: Sat, 4 Jul 2009 22:58:44 -0400 Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] OT- kitten I use a bounty paper towel. He pees immediately, so it gets wet quick. Then, I use a clean damp one to clean up after. No chafing so far. DebR and the Three Goldfish (CB, Lucille, and Raven) ----- Original Message ----- From: "pam andress" <pamandress23@...> Sounds like a plan. What are you using to stimulate? I know they say to use a wet cotton ball, but I used to use a wet wash cloth. I figure the cats tongue is rough, so why not. ---------------- From: menagerie_manager@... Thanks, Pam! That's what I thought. I've been stimulating him and he pees, but only a teeny amount of poop last night and none since. He's seems slightly bloated,but not in any distress. I think I'm going try a higher water to KMR ratio and see if that helps. ----- Original Message ----- From: "pam andress" <pamandress23@...> They should pretty much right away, but you have to stimulate them to do it. (Both ends) -----------Original Message--------- Now to do some googling and find out how long after birth a kitten should start pooping. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 41712	From: Menagerie_Manager	Date: 7/4/2009
Subject: Re: OT- kitten

Thanks, Pam! I now return you to your regularly scheduled AquaticLife group. DebR and the Three Goldfish (CB, Lucille, and Raven) ----- Original Message ----- From: "pam andress" <pamandress23@...> That works. Good luck with adding more water to the formula. ----- From: menagerie_manager@... I use a bounty paper towel. He pees immediately, so it gets wet quick. Then, I use a clean damp one to clean up after. No chafing so far. ----- Original Message ----- From: "pam andress" <pamandress23@...> Sounds like a plan. What are you using to stimulate? I know they say to use a wet cotton ball, but I used to use a wet wash cloth. I figure the cats tongue is rough, so why not. ---------------- From: menagerie_manager@... Thanks, Pam! That's what I thought. I've been stimulating him and he pees, but only a teeny amount of poop last night and none since. He's seems slightly bloated,but not in any distress. I think I'm going try a higher water to KMR ratio and see if that helps. ----- Original Message ----- From: "pam andress" <pamandress23@...> They should pretty much right away, but you have to stimulate them to do it. (Both ends) -----------Original Message--------- Now to do some googling and find out how long after birth a kitten should start pooping.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 41713	From: Deenerz@aol.com	Date: 7/4/2009
Subject: Re: Garra barreimiae wurayahi Khalaf, 2009 : A New Blind Cave Fish S

Thank you for sharing that with us! -Mike -----Original Message----- From: Dr. Norman Ali Khalaf <jaffacity@...> To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Sat, Jul 4, 2009 10:48 am Subject: [AquaticLife] Garra barreimiae wurayahi Khalaf, 2009 : A New Blind Cave Fish Subspecies from W Garra barreimiae wurayahi Khalaf, 2009 : A New Blind Cave Fish Subspecies from Wadi Al Wurayah Pools, Emirate of Fujairah, United Arab Emirates. By: Dr. Sc. Norman Ali Bassam Ali Taher Khalaf-Sakerfalke von Jaffa.* Website: http://emirati-blind-cave-fish.webs.com/ Abstract: A new subspecies of Blind Cave Fish of the genus Garra (Teleostei: Cyprinidae) from Wadi Al Wurayah pools, Emirate of Fujairah, United Arab Emirates is described. This subspecies is distinguished from the other three subspecies of Garra barreimiae living in Bahrain, Oman and United Arab Emirates, by its distinctive body colouration and the small size. It is morphologically and geographically distinct from the other subspecies. The new subspecies was named Garra barreimiae wurayahi Khalaf, 2009. During a field trip to Wadi Al Wurayah, the U.A.E.'s first mountain protected area, located in Al Hajar Mountains, Emirate of Fujairah, United Arab Emirates, on Friday the 26th June 2009, accompanied with my wife Ola and my daughter Nora, I inspected Wadi Al Wurayah pools and waterfall, and saw many blind cave fish (Garra barreimiae Fowler and Steinitz, 1956) swimming in the pool waters. These fish were observed, examined and measured. Description and Distinctive Fe atures: After examining Garra barreimiae at the pools of Wadi Al Wurayah, I began comparing between the different Arabian Blind Cave Fish subspecies. There are three Garra barreimiae subspecies living in the Arabian Peninsula: The two Omani Blind Cave Fish subspecies Garra barreimiae barreimiae Fowler & Steinitz, 1956, from Al Buraimi Oasis; and Garra barreimiae gallagheri Krupp, 1988, from Seeq and Wadi Bani Khalid north of Muqal; and the Emirati Blind Cave Fish subspecies Garra barreimiae shawkahensis Banister and Clarke, 1977, from Wadi Shawkah, Emirate of Ras Al Khaimah. Garra barreimiae, named after the Al Buraimi Oasis, Oman, is by far the most common native freshwater fish species found in the United Arab Emirates. In many wadis Garra barreimiae is the only fish present. The Wadi Al Wurayah subspecies Garra barreimiae wurayahi Khalaf, 2009, have a small size. Young specimens are 1-4 centimeters, and adults are 4.5–7 centimeters. They are mottled brown in colour, typically dark but varying somewhat with the surroundings. Larger adults sometimes show more colourful red, white or blue markings, probably related to breeding status. Distribution: Garra barreimiae is endemic to Bahrain, United Arab Emirates and northern Oman. Separate subspecies have been recognized on the east and west flanks of the Hajar Mountains, respectively, but these cannot be distinguished by field observation alone. The subspecies Garra barreimiae wurayahi is endemic to Wadi Al Wurayah, Emirate of Fujairah, United Arab Emirates. The genus Garra is known0Afrom East Africa to South Asia and several other Garra species are endemic to the mountains of south-western Arabia, but the closest relatives of Garra barreimiae is thought to be the newly discovered Omani Garra smarti, and the Irani Garra persica, which is widespread in southern Iran. Natural History and Habitat: Garra barreimiae has a behavioural tendency to explore upstream, which probably facilitates dispersal when the wadis flow. Smaller adults have been observed to climb several meters up waterfalls, using the wet surface of the splash zone adjacent to the main flow of water, sometimes wriggling, sometimes jetting forward, resting periodically with pectoral fins spread, the mouth plate engaged for suction, and the tail twisted and pressed flat against the rock. They feed on detritus and algae and have a specialized mouth plate that functions as a suction device. They resemble aquarium catfish as they nuzzle their way over gravel and rock surfaces, but they dart about frantically when approached in shallow pools where they are vulnerable to terrestrial and avian predators. Little is known about the life history of G. barreimiae in the wild. Several anecdotal reports exist of the release of eggs and sperm during transport of specimens, provoking speculation that spawning may be triggered by turbulence, mimicking that of a wadi in spate. G. barreimiae will cannibalize its own eggs if conditions permit. Experiments have shown that G. barreimiae can tolerate water temperatures up to ca. 40ºC (104ºF) and salinity up to one-third that of sea water, but they usually live in water temperature between 18°C - 24°C, and pH range: 6.5 - 7.5; and dH range: 10 – 20. Garra and Locals: Garra barreimiae is caught and eaten by human residents of the Hajar Mountains, even today. The normal technique employs a V-shaped stone dam to channel the fish onto a portable sieve-like platform made from palm ribs, wire mesh or nylon netting. This can be very effective, eliminating all but the very smallest fish in the area, but only G. barreimiae is taken for food, even when other species are present. Status: Vulnerable (IUCN). Conclusion: After examining the Garra barreimiae at Wadi Al Wurayah shallow pools, and comparing the different Arabian Blind Cave Fish subspecies, and referring to many zoological references, and searching the Internet, I came finally to a conclusion that we are in front of a new subspecies of the Blind Cave Fish from Wadi Al Wurayah pools, Emirate of Fujairah, United Arab Emirates. I gave it the scientific name Garra barreimiae wurayahi, new subspecies. The subspecies name "wurayahi" is Latin for Wadi Al Wurayah. Garra barreimiae wurayahi, new subspecies: Scientific trinomial name: Garra barreimiae wurayahi Khalaf, 2009. Common Name: Emirati Blind Cave Fish, Wadi Al Wurayah Blind Cave Fish. Location: Wadi Al Wurayah pools, Emirate of Fujairah, United Arab Emirates. Date of capture: 26th June, 2009. Acknowledgments: A Special thanks is due to my wife Ola Mostafa Khalaf, who assisted me with the preparation of the photos for this scientific article; and to both my wife and daughter Nora Norman Ali Khalaf, who shared with me the field trip to Wadi Al Wurayah, and gave me the opportunity to discover a new Emirati Blind Cave Fish Subspecies. References and Internet Websites: AquaNet - Lexikon - Hajar-Höhlensaugbarbe. AquaNet - Das Portal für Aquarianer. www.aquanet.de/content/lexikon/a108cd1d-063b-4226-8c1b-8f2703321c25?t=1 AquaNet - Lexikon - Hajar-Höhlenschmerle. AquaNet - Das Portal für Aquarianer. http://aquanet.de/content/lexikon/a108cd1d-063b-4226-8c1b-8f2703321c25?t=1 Arkive. Omani Blind Cave Fish (Garra barreimiae). www.arkive.org/omani-blind-cave-fish/garra-barreimiae/ Banister, K.E. (1984). A subterranean population of Garra barreimiae (Teleostei: Cyprinidae) from Oman, with comments on the concept of regressive evolution. Journal of Natural History, Volume 18, Number 6, November-December 1984 , pp. 927-938(12). Publisher: Taylor and Francis Ltd. www.ingentaconnect.com/content/tandf/tnah/1984/00000018/00000006/art00010 Berra, T.M. (1981). An Atlas of Distribution of the Freshwater Fish Families of the World, Univ. of Nebraska Press. Feulner, G.R. (1998). Wadi Fish of the U.A.E., Tribulus no. 8.2, pp. 16-22. Feulner , Gary R. and Peter L. Cunningham. The freshwater goby (Awaous aeneofuscus) in the Wadi Hatta watershed (U.A.E./Oman). www.enhg.org/trib/trib07.htm FRESHWATER FISHES. www.uaeinteract.com/uaeint_misc/teanh/022fwfi.pd Fujairah Wadi becomes first protected mountain habitat in the UAE. www.uaeyearbook.com/docs/Fujairah_Wadi_becomes_first_protected_mountain_habitat_\ in_t he_UAE/25725.htm Garra barreimiae Fowler & Steinitz, 1956, Omani Blind Cave Fish. Aldemaro Romero Home Page. www.clt.astate.edu/aromero/new_page_101.htm Garra barreimiae barreimiae Fowler & Steinitz, 1956. http://fishbase.mnhn.fr/summary/SpeciesSummary.php?genusname=Garra&speciesname=b\ arreimiae+barreimiae Garra barreimiae shawkahensis Banister & Clarke, 1977. www.fishbase.gr/Summary/SpeciesSummary.php?id=27885&lang=German Garra Hamilton, 1822. www.funet.fi/pub/sci/bio/life/pisces/actinopterygii/cypriniformes/cyprinoidea/cy\ prinidae/cyprininae/garra/index.html Garra smarti new species of Arabian freshwater fish discovered in Oman. www.eyeofdubai.com/v1/news/newsdetail-31342.htm IUCN Red List of Threatened Species. Garra barreimiae. www.iucnredlist.org/details/8916/0/full Khalaf, Norman Ali Bassam (1980). Tabie't Al-Talawon fi Al-Haywanat (The Colouration of Animals). Al-Biology Bulletin. Number 1. January 1980, Safar 1401. Biological Society, Kuwait University, State of Kuwait. pp. 4-5. (in Arabic). Khalaf, Norman Ali Bassam (1981). Fawa'ed Alasmak. (The Benefits of Fishes). Al-Biology Magazine, Biological Society, Kuwait University, State of Kuwait. Number 1. Sunday 7.6.1981, 5. Sha'ban 1401. pp. 54-55. (in Arabic). Khalaf, Norman Ali Bassam (1982). Samak Al-Coelacanth (The Coelacanth Fish). Al-Biology Magazine. Number 2. February 1982. Biological Society, Kuwait University, State of Kuwait. pp. 14-15. (in Arabic). Khalaf, Norman (Translator) (1982). Al-Miah Al-Mulawatha Tohaded Al-Asmak Bi'ilinqiraad (Water Pollution threatens the Fish Fauna with Extinction). Al-Biology Bulletin. Number 18, Third Year, First Semester, Saturday 6.11.1982. Bi ological Society, Kuwait University, State of Kuwait. pp. 7. (Translation from German into Arabic). Khalaf, Norman Ali (1983). Al-Samaka Al-`Auljumiyah Al-Naqaqa fi Al-Khaleej Al-Arabi [The Toad Fish (Batrachus grunniens) in the Arabian Gulf]. Bulletin of the Biological Studies Club, Kuwait University, State of Kuwait. First Year, Number 3, 23 November 1983. pp. 10-11. (in Arabic). Khalaf, Norman Ali (Translator) (1983). Al-Tasjeel Al-Hay Al-Awal li-Samaket Kozat Al-Snobar (Monocentris japonicus, Houttuyn) min Al-Bahr Al-Ahmar [The Pinecone Fish (Monocentris japonicus, Houttuyn), A First Live Record from the Red Sea] by: Chaim Kropach. Bulletin of the Biological Studies Club, Kuwait University, State of Kuwait. First Year, Number 4, 7.12.1983. pp. 6-8. (in Arabic). Khalaf, Norman Ali B. (1986). The Schooling of Fishes. Gazelle: The Palestinian Biological Bulletin. Number 9. Fourth Year. Ramadan 1406. May 1986. Department of Zoology, University of Durham, Durham, United Kingdom. pp. 1-13. Khalaf, Norman Ali B. (1986). The Fish Fauna in Van Mildert Pond, Durham City, North East England. Gazelle: The Palestinian Biological Bulletin. Number 9. Fourth Year. Ramadan 1406. May 1986. Department of Zoology, University of Durham, Durham, United Kingdom. pp. 14-20. Khalaf, N.A.B. (1986). The Schooling of Sumatra Barbs (Barbus tetrazona tetrazona) and Minnows (Phoxinus phoxinus). Dissertation, Master of Science in Ecology, Departments of Zoology and Botany, University of Durham, England. September 1986. pps. 59 + iv. Khalaf, Norman Ali B. (1987). The Coelacanth (Latimeria chalum nae) in the Science and Natural History Museum, State of Kuwait. Gazelle: The Palestinian Biological Bulletin. Number 15. Fifth Year. July 1987. Rilchingen-Hanweiler, Germany. pp. 1-8. Khalaf, Norman Ali Bassam (1987). On a Collection of Devon Period Animal Fossils from the Saarland, in the Geologische Museum Saarberg in Saarbrücken, Germany. Gazelle: The Palestinian Biological Bulletin. Rilchingen-Hanweiler, Federal Republic of Germany. Number 15, Fifth Year, Thul Qi'dah 1407 AH, July 1987 AD. pp. 9-10. Khalaf, Norman Ali B. (1987). The Great White Shark (Carcharodon carcharias) from the State of Kuwait, Arabian Gulf. Gazelle: The Palestinian Biological Bulletin. Number 16. Fifth Year. Safar 1408 AH. September 1987 AD. Rilchingen-Hanweiler, Federal Republic of Germany. pp. 1-7. Khalaf, Norman Ali (1989). Qa'ema li-ba'd Asmak Al-Kuwait fi Al-Mathaf Al-`Ilmi Bi-Dawlat Al-Kuwait (A List of some Kuwaiti Fishes from the Science & Natural History Museum, State of Kuwait). Gazelle: The Palestinian Biological Bulletin. Number 19. Seventh Year. December 1989. Bonn 2-Bad Godesberg, Federal Republic of Germany. pp. 3. (in Arabic and English). Khalaf-von Jaffa, Norman Ali Bassam (1991). A Trip to Zoo Budapest, Hungary. Gazelle: The Palestinian Biological Bulletin. Bonn-Bad Godesberg, Federal Republic of Germany. Number 21, Ninth Year, January 1991. pp. 1-4. Khalaf-von Jaffa, Norman Ali Bassam (1991). The Gulf War and its effect on the Arabian Ecosystem (Part One). Gazelle: The Palestinian Biological Bulletin. Bonn-Bad Godesberg, Federal Republic of Germany. Number 23, Ni nth Year, July 1991. pp. 1-12. Khalaf-von Jaffa, Norman Ali Bassam (1991). The Gulf War and its effect on the Arabian Ecosystem (Part Two). Gazelle: The Palestinian Biological Bulletin. Bonn-Bad Godesberg, Federal Republic of Germany. Number 24, Ninth Year, August 1991. pp. 1-10. Khalaf-von Jaffa, Norman Ali Bassam (1991). The Gulf War and its effect on the Arabian Ecosystem (Part Three). Gazelle: The Palestinian Biological Bulletin. Bonn-Bad Godesberg, Federal Republic of Germany. Number 25, Ninth Year, September 1991. pp. 1-7. Khalaf, Norman Ali Bassam (1992). Notes on the Biological Ecology of the Marshes in Southern Iraq. Gazelle: The Palestinian Biological Bulletin. Bonn-Bad Godesberg, Federal Republic of Germany. Number 29, Tenth Year, September 1992. pp. 1-9. (in Arabic). Khalaf, Norman Ali Bassam (1992). The United Nations Ecological Report confirms: The Regime of Saddam is destroying the Marshes (Al-Ahwar) Ecosystem. Sawt Al-Kuwait International Newspaper. Saturday 17 October 1992, 21 Rabi'e Al-Thani 1412. pp. 15. (in Arabic). Khalaf-von Jaffa, Norman Ali Bassam (1992). An Introduction to the Animal Life in Palestine. Gazelle. Gazelle: The Palestinian Biological Bulletin. Bonn-Bad Godesberg, Federal Republic of Germany. Number 30, Tenth Year, October 1992. pp. 1-7. (in Arabic). Khalaf-von Jaffa, Norman Ali B. (1993). Al-Mushkilatan Al-Ma'eyah wa Al-Bi'eyah fi Al-Dafah Al-Gharbiyah wa Qita' Ghaza Al-Muhtalain (Ka-Juzu' min Al-Sharq Al-Awsat) [The Water and the Ecological Problems in the Occupied West Bank and Gaza Strip (As Part of the Middle East)]. Gazelle: The Palestinian Biological Bulletin. Number 31. Eleventh Year. December 1993. Bonn, Federal Republic of Germany. pp. 1- 29. (in Arabic). Khalaf-von Jaffa, Norman Ali Bassam (1994). An Introduction to the Animal Life in Palestine. Shqae'q Al-Nouma'n (Anemone coronaria). A Quarterly Magazine Issued by the Program EAI (Education for Awareness and for Involvement). Environmental Education / Children for Nature Protection. In Cooperation with Dept. of General and Higher Education. P.L.O., Palestine. Number 4. Huzairan (June) 1994. pp. 16-21. (in Arabic). Acquaintance Card: Majallet Al-Ghazzal (Gazelle Magazine): The Palestinian Biological Bulletin. Bonn, Germany. Shqae'q Al-Nouma'n (Anemone coronaria). A Quarterly Magazine Issued by the Program EAI (Education for Awareness and for Involvement). Environmental Education / Children for Nature Protection. In Cooperation with Dept. of General and Higher Education. P.L.O., Palestine. Number 4. Huzairan (June) 1994. pp. 51-52. (in Arabic). Khalaf-von Jaffa, Norman Ali B.(1995). Alasmak fi Filistin (Die Fische von Palaestina / The Fishes of Palestine). Gazelle: The Palestinian Biological Bulletin. Number 33. Thirteenth Year. December 1995. Bonn, Germany. pp.1-35. (in Arabic). Khalaf, Ali Bassam (1997). Amir Al-Bahar Al-Arabi (The Arabian Sea Prince) Shihab Al-Deen Ahmad Bin Majed. Magazin der Akademie. Nummer 1. Zu Elke'da 1417 H, Maerz 1997. Koenig Fahad Akademie – Bonn, Bonn-Bad Godesberg, Deutschland. pp. 23-24. (in Arabic). Khalaf, Norman Ali Bassam (2001). The Extinct and Endangered Animals in Palestine. In: Gazelle:20The Palestinian Biological Bulletin Home Page. Extinct and Endangered Animals and Reintroduction. http://gazelle.8m.net/photo3.html Khalaf-Sakerfalke von Jaffa, Norman Ali Bassam Ali Taher (Gründer) (seit Juni 2001). Yahoo! Deutschland Group: Wale und Delphine. http://de.groups.yahoo.com/group/Wale_und_Delphine/ Khalaf-von Jaffa, Norman Ali (2004). Gazelle: Das Palaestinensische Biologische Bulletin. Eine Wissenschaftliche Reise in Palaestina, Arabien und Europa zwischen 1983 – 2004. / Gazelle: The Palestinian Biological Bulletin. A Scientific Journey in Palestine, Arabia and Europe between 1983 – 2004. Erste Auflage, Juli 2004: 452 Seiten. Zweite erweiterte Auflage, August 2004: 460 Seiten. Norman Ali Khalaf, Bonn-Bad Godesberg, Germany. www.geocities.com/jaffacity/Gazelle_Bulletin.html Khalaf-von Jaffa, Norman Ali (2005). Der Komoren-Quastenflosser (Latimeria chalumnae) und der Manado-Quastenflosser (Latimeria menadoensis). Gazelle: The Palestinian Biological Bulletin. Number 38. Twenty Third Year. February 2005. Sharjah, United Arab Emirates. pp. 1-8. www.geocities.com/jaffacity/quastenflosser.html Khalaf-von Jaffa, Norman Ali (2005). The Story of Prophet Musa (Moses) and the Fish. Gazelle: The Palestinian Biological Bulletin. Sharjah, United Arab Emirates. Number 38, Twenty-third Year, February 2005. pp. 14-15. Khalaf-von Jaffa, Norman Ali (2005). Moses Perch (Lutjanus russelli, Bleeker 1849). Gazelle: The Palestinian Biological Bulletin. Sharjah, United Arab Emirates. Number 38, Twenty-third Year, February 2005. pp. 15. Khalaf-von Jaffa, Norman Ali (2005). The Fish of Musa (Samak Musa). Gazelle:20The Palestinian Biological Bulletin. Sharjah, United Arab Emirates. Number 38, Twenty-third Year, February 2005. pp. 16. Khalaf-von Jaffa, Norman Ali (2005). Samak Al-Luchs (Al-Hamoor) or the Orange-Spotted Grouper (Epinephelus coioides) in Palestine (Mediterranean Sea) and the United Arab Emirates (Arabian Gulf). Gazelle: The Palestinian Biological Bulletin. Sharjah, United Arab Emirates. Number 39, Twenty-third Year, March 2005. pp. 1-6. Khalaf-von Jaffa, Norman Ali (2005). Jaffa (Yaffa): The History of an Old Palestinian Arab City on the Mediterranean Sea. Gazelle: The Palestinian Biological Bulletin. Sharjah, United Arab Emirates. Number 39, Twenty-third Year, March 2005. pp. 7-8. Khalaf-von Jaffa, Norman Ali (2005). The Andromeda Sea Monster of Jaffa. Gazelle: The Palestinian Biological Bulletin. Sharjah, United Arab Emirates. Number 39, Twenty-third Year, March 2005. pp. 8. Khalaf-von Jaffa, Norman Ali (2005). The Jewfish (Epinephelus itajara) / Der Riesenzackenbarsch oder Judenfisch (Epinephelus itajara). Gazelle: The Palestinian Biological Bulletin. Sharjah, United Arab Emirates. Number 39, Twenty-third Year, March 2005. pp. 9-12. Khalaf-von Jaffa, Norman Ali (2005). The Arabian Freshwater Fishes in the Arabia's Wildlife Centre, Sharjah Desert Park, Sharjah, United Arab Emirates. Gazelle: The Palestinian Biological Bulletin. Number 40, Twenty-third Year, April 2005. pp. 1-9. Sharjah, United Arab Emirates. http://www.geocities.com/jaffacity/Arabian_Freshwater_Fish.html Khalaf-von Jaffa, Norman Ali (Gründer) (seit Juni 2005). Der Quastenflosser: Coelacanth Latimeria Yahoo! Deutschland Gro up. http://de.groups.yahoo.com/group/Quastenflosser/ Khalaf-von Jaffa, Norman Ali (2005). The Koran Angelfish (Pomacanthus semicirculatus, Cuvier, 1831). Gazelle: The Palestinian Biological Bulletin. Number 44. Twenty-third Year. August 2005. Jamada Alakhira 1426. Sharjah, United Arab Emirates. pp. 1-8. http://www.geocities.com/jaffacity/Koran_Angelfish.html Khalaf-von Jaffa, Norman Ali (2005). Aquatica Arabica. An Aquatic Scientific Journey in Palestine, Arabia and Europe between 1980 - 2005 / Aquatica Arabica. Eine Aquatische Wissenschaftliche Reise in Palaestina, Arabien und Europa zwischen 1980 - 2005. Erste Auflage, August 2005: 376 Seiten. Norman Ali Khalaf, Rilchingen-Hanweiler, Bundesrepublik Deutschland & Sharjah, United Arab Emirates. www.geocities.com/jaffacity/Aquatica_Arabica.html Khalaf, N.A.B. (2005). The Schooling of Sumatra Barbs (Barbus tetrazona tetrazona) and Minnows (Phoxinus phoxinus). [M.Sc. Dissertation in Ecology, Departments of Zoology and Botany, University of Durham, England. September 1986. pps. 59 + iv]. In: Aquatica Arabica. An Aquatic Scientific Journey in Palestine, Arabia and Europe between 1980 - 2005. Erste Auflage, August 2005. Norman Ali Khalaf, Rilchingen-Hanweiler, Bundesrepublik Deutschland & Sharjah, United Arab Emirates. pp. 28-93. Khalaf-von Jaffa, Norman Ali (2005). The Rafah Zoo in the Rafah Refugee Camp, Gaza Strip, Palestine : A Story of Destruction by the Israeli Occupation Army. Gazelle: The Palestinian Biological Bulletin. Number 46, Twenty-third Year, October 2005, Ramadan 1426. pp. 1-11. Sharjah, United Arab Emirates. (in Arabic). Khalaf-von Jaffa, Norman Ali Bassam (2005). The Qalqilia Zoo and the Natural History Museum in the City of Qalqilia, West Bank, Occupied Palestine. Gazelle: The Palestinian Biological Bulletin. Number 47, Twenty-third Year, November 2005, Shawal 1426. pp. 1-10. Sharjah, United Arab Emirates. (in Arabic). Khalaf-von Jaffa, Norman Ali Bassam (Member of PALESTA) (2005). Palestinian Scientists and Technologists Abroad (PALESTA). Gazelle: The Palestinian Biological Bulletin. Number 47, Twenty-third Year, November 2005, Shawal 1426. pp. 11-12. Sharjah, United Arab Emirates. (in Arabic). Khalaf, Norman Ali Bassam Ali Taher (2006). Eine Persoenlichkeit aus Jaffa, Palaestina / A Personality from Jaffa, Palestine: Bassam Ali Taher Khalaf (Abu Ali) (1938-2006). Gazelle: The Palestinian Biological Bulletin. Number 56, Twenty-fourth Year, August 2006. pp. 8-19. Sharjah, United Arab Emirates. www.geocities.com/jaffacity/Bassam_Khalaf.html Khalaf-Sakerfalke von Jaffa, Norman Ali Bassam Ali Taher (2006). Ein Besuch im Neunkircher Zoo, Neunkirchen, Saarland, Deutschland / A Visit to Neunkirchen Zoo, Neunkirchen, Saarland, Germany. Gazelle: The Palestinian Biological Bulletin. Number 59, November 2006. pp. 1-25. Sharjah, United Arab Emirates. (in Arabisch / Arabic). http://khalaf.homepage24.de/text_88839638_85658724_59480041_deutsch.html Khalaf, Norman Ali Bassam Ali Taher (2007). Zum 1. Todestag : Eine Persoenlichkeit aus Jaffa, Palaestina / The First Death Anniversary : A Personality from Jaffa, Palestine : Bassam Ali Taher Khalaf (Abu Ali) (1938-2006). Gazelle: Das Palaestinensische Biologische Bulletin. Nummer 62, Februar 2007, Muha rram 1428 AH. Seite 11. Sharjah, Vereinigte Arabische Emirate. www.geocities.com/jaffacity/Bassam_Khalaf.html Khalaf-Sakerfalke von Jaffa, Norman Ali Bassam Ali Taher (Gründer) (seit Juni 2007). Yahoo! Deutschland Group: Fauna Palaestina. http://de.groups.yahoo.com/group/Fauna_Palaestina/ Khalaf-Sakerfalke von Jaffa, Norman Ali Bassam Ali Taher (Gründer) (seit August 2007). Haie – Sharks Yahoo! Deutschland Group. http://de.groups.yahoo.com/group/Haie_Sharks/ Khalaf-Sakerfalke von Jaffa, Norman Ali Bassam Ali Taher (Gründer) (seit September 2007). Yahoo! Deutschland Group: Fauna Arabica. http://de.groups.yahoo.com/group/Fauna_Arabica/ Khalaf-Sakerfalke von Jaffa, Norman Ali Bassam Ali Taher (2007). Haywanat Filistin (Fauna of Palestine). Wikipedia, Al-Mawsu'a Al-Hurra (The Free Encyclopedia). Gazelle: The Palestinian Biological Bulletin. Number 69, Twenty-fifth Year, September 2007 CE, Sha'ban 1428 AH. pp. 1-4. (in Arabic). http://ar.wikipedia.org/wiki/%D8%AD%D9%8A%D9%88%D8%A7%D9%86%D8%A7%D8%AA_%D9%81%D\ 9%84%D8%B3%D8%B7%D9%8A%D9%86 Khalaf-Sakerfalke von Jaffa, Dr. Sc. Norman Ali Bassam Ali Taher (2007). A Whale Shark (Rhincodon typus, Smith 1828) caught off the Kuwaiti Coast: The Second Record from the State of Kuwait, Arabian / Persian Gulf. Gazelle: The Palestinian Biological Bulletin. Number 71, November 2007. pp. 1-20. Sharjah, United Arab Emirates. (Abstracts in English and Arabic). http://www.geocities.com/jaffacity/Whale_Shark_Kuwait.html Khalaf-Sakerfalke von Jaffa, Dr. Sc. Norman Ali Bassam Ali Taher (2007). Rhiniodon typus Smith, 1828 or Rhincodon typus Smith, 1829: The Story of a Scientific Nam e. Gazelle: The Palestinian Biological Bulletin. Number 71, November 2007. pp. 21. Sharjah, United Arab Emirates. http://www.geocities.com/jaffacity/Rhiniodon_Rhincodon.html Khalaf-Sakerfalke von Jaffa, Dr. Sc. Norman Ali Bassam Ali Taher (2007). Whale Sharks in Palestinian Waters: A Whale Shark (Rhincodon typus, Smith 1828) rescued near the Tantura Beach, Carmel Coast, North Palestine: The First Record from the Palestinian Mediterranean Coast. Gazelle: The Palestinian Biological Bulletin. Number 71, November 2007. pp. 22-23. Sharjah, United Arab Emirates. (Abstracts in English and Arabic). http://www.geocities.com/jaffacity/Whale_Shark_Palestine.html Khalaf-Sakerfalke von Jaffa, Dr. Sc. Norman Ali Bassam Ali Taher (2007). Whale Sharks in Palestinian Waters: Whale Sharks (Rhincodon typus, Smith 1828) near Um Al-Rashrash (Eilat) Beach, Gulf of Aqaba, South Palestine: First Records from the Palestinian Red Sea Coast. Gazelle: The Palestinian Biological Bulletin. Number 71, November 2007. pp. 23-26. Sharjah, United Arab Emirates. (Abstract in English and Arabic). http://www.geocities.com/jaffacity/Whale_Shark_Palestine.html Khalaf-Sakerfalke von Jaffa, Dr. Sc. Norman Ali Bassam Ali Taher (2007). An Ocean Sunfish or Common Mola (Mola mola, Linnaeus 1758) caught off the coast of Gaza: The First Record from Palestine, East Mediterranean Sea. Gazelle: The Palestinian Biological Bulletin. Number 72, December 2007, pp. 1-16. (Abstracts in English and Arabic). http://www.geocities.com/jaffacity/Gaza_Ocean_Sunfish.html Dr. Sc. Norman Ali Bassam Ali Taher Khalaf-Sakerfalke von Jaffa, Zoologist, Ecologist and Geolog ist : The Scientific References (1980-2008). http://www.geocities.com/jaffacity/Khalaf_References.html Khalaf-Sakerfalke von Jaffa, Dr.Sc. Norman Ali Bassam Ali Taher (2009). A Longcomb Sawfish (Pristis zijsron Bleeker, 1851) caught off the coast of Dibba, United Arab Emirates, Gulf of Oman. Gazelle: The Palestinian Biological Bulletin. Number 88, April 2009, Rabi'e Al Thani 1430 AH. pp. 1-14. http://dibba-sawfish.webs.com/ Khalaf-Sakerfalke von Jaffa, Dr.Sc. Norman Ali Bassam Ali Taher (2009). Garra barreimiae wurayahi Khalaf, 2009 : A New Blind Cave Fish Subspecies from Wadi Al Wurayah Pools, Emirate of Fujairah, United Arab Emirates. Gazelle: The Palestinian Biological Bulletin. Number 90, June 2009, Jumada Al-Akhera 1430 AH. pp. 1-15. http://emirati-blind-cave-fish.webs.com/ Krupp, F. (1983). Freshwater Fishes of Saudi Arabia and Adjacent Regions of the Arabian Peninsula, Fauna of Saudi Arabia, v. 5, pp. 568-636. New Garra discovered in Oman. www.newstin.co.uk/rel/uk/en-010-014596370 PISC_TYP. www.nmb.bs.ch/typenkatalog_pisces_internetversion.xls Wadi Wurayah becomes the UAE's first protected mountain area. www.surfbirds.com/sbirdsnews/archives/2009/04/wadi_wurayah_be.html Wadi Wurayah becomes UAE's first mountain protected area. www.uaeinteract.com/docs/Wadi_Wurayah_becomes_UAE%E2%80%99s_first_mountain_prote\ cted_area_/35448.htm Wadi Wurayah becomes the UAE's first mountain protected area. www.wildlifeextra.com/go/news/wadi-Wurayah.html#cr Wikipedia. Wadi Wurayah. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wadi_Wurayah Wikipedia. Garra barreimiae. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Garra_barreimiae *Dr. Sc. Norman Ali Bassam Ali Taher Khalaf-Sakerfalke v on Jaffa is a Palestinian/German Zoologist, Ecologist and Geologist. Born in Saarbrücken, Saarland, Germany in 1962. Finished School in Kuwait. Studied Zoology, Geology and Ecology for the Bachelor, Master and Doctorate degrees at the Universities of Kuwait, Durham (England) and Ashwood (USA). Specialised in Animal Behaviour and Ecology. Done a lot of work and research in the Universities of Kuwait, Durham and Saarbrücken; and in the Zoos, Wild Parks and Field Studies in Palestine, Israel, Jordan, Syria, Lebanon, Iraq, Saudi Arabia, Kuwait, Emirates, Qatar, Oman, Egypt, Turkey, Greece, Bulgaria, Yugoslavia, Hungary, Holland, Belgium, Luxemburg, England, Scotland, Jersey Island, France, Austria, Switzerland and Germany. He is the author and publisher of "Gazelle : The Palestinian Biological Bulletin", the first Palestinian scientific journal worldwide (since 1983); and the author of five books: Gazelle: The Palestinian Biological Bulletin (2004) & Aquatica Arabica (2005) & Mammalia Arabica (2006) & Felidae Arabica (2007) & Carnivora Arabica (2008). He discovered and scientifically named three animals. Two Palestinian mammal subspecies from the Gaza Strip: The Palestine Golden Jackal (Canis aureus palaestina Khalaf, 2008) and the Gaza or Palestine House Mouse (Mus musculus gazaensis Khalaf, 2007), and the Emirati or Wadi Al Wurayah Blind Cave Fish (Garra barreimiae wurayahi Khalaf, 2009) from the Emirate of Fujairah, United Arab Emirates. He is working now as a free scientific researcher and publisher in the United Arab Emirates. He is married to Ola Khalaf and has one daughter, Nora. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 41714	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 7/4/2009
Subject: Everything is spawning I swear! LOL

Okay so the Angel's got used to their environment and apparently feel quite safe, unless I stick my face too close to the tank then they try to scare me off ;) Good thing I did all the planting before this ;) I would have been dodging Angel's just to plant the plants in the tank ;) I figure all the hornwort makes them feel more secure too. And of course, out of all the slate I put in the tank for them, where do they lay the eggs? On the filter intake.... LOL. Amber

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 41715	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 7/4/2009
Subject: Trying my hand at making a paste food

So I mixed together a bunch of frozen shrimp (mostly shrimp about half the blender full, and they were berried jumbo shrimp), I also added a few whole herring, some old flake food, some omega fish oil that I feed the dog a little bit of, some ground fennel, some brewer's yeast, and some garlic (I went mostly by a recipe online but couldn't find liquid vitamin's). I will let you guys know how it goes after I do the who gelatin process ;) LOL So far all I can smell is shrimp, I think I'm wearing some or something, or it's permanently stuck in my nose hairs ;) LOL Amber

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 41716	From: Deenerz@aol.com	Date: 7/4/2009
Subject: Re: Plastic canvas question and OT- kitten

I have made media baskets out of this material for my aquaclear filters and had no issues. -Mike I use the plastic canvas to make grills between my background (in tank) and the filter intakes behind.3 years, safe so far. -----Original Message----- From: Donna Ransome <djransome@...> To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Sat, Jul 4, 2009 7:45 pm Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Plastic canvas question and OT- kitten I use the plastic canvas to make grills between my background (in tank) and the filter intakes behind.3 years, safe so far. _____ From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Menagerie_Manager Sent: Saturday, July 04, 2009 3:10 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Plastic canvas question and OT- kitten Does anybody know if it's safe to put plastic in an aquarium? I'm thinking of using it to make a safe zone in the 75G tank for the White Cloud minnows. The more I look at them and then at the goldies, the more I think that they will become snacks if only by accident at feeding time. If I can't satisfy myself that they will be safe with the goldies, then are there any other cold water fish that will stay small that I could add to the 20G tank? Is anyone in SE Michigan looking to adopt a kitten? The local stray abandoned one newborn in our garage yesterday and we haven't seen hide nor hair of her since. The kitten is doing well on KMR and his (?) umbilical cord dropped off overnight. He l ooks like he'll be a fluffy gray tabby like his mom, with white on his face, feet and tummy and a tiny white tip on the end of his tail. I seem to have a sign in my yard that only animals can see that says, "Former vet tech here. All strays and orphans welcome." DebR and the Three Goldfish (CB, Lucille, and Raven) (And one dog, two cats, 5 rats, and the newborn kitten) [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 41717	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 7/4/2009
Subject: Re: Trying my hand at making a paste food

Okay the stinky goo is in the fridge for several hours... The only thing big enough to put it in so it would come out somewhat thin was a big baking pan so I lined it with tin foil to help with easy removal ;) I think I will cut it into smaller portions that fit into ziplock bags and freeze them that way, any suggestions from anyone that is really easy? I could save my old brine shrimp plastic containers and do something like a tiny ice cube tray with them, LOL. This would be the next time around of course ;) Amber Amber Berglund wrote: > > > So I mixed together a bunch of frozen shrimp (mostly shrimp about half > the blender full, and they were berried jumbo shrimp), I also added a > few whole herring, some old flake food, some omega fish oil that I feed > the dog a little bit of, some ground fennel, some brewer's yeast, and > some garlic (I went mostly by a recipe online but couldn't find liquid > vitamin's). > I will let you guys know how it goes after I do the who gelatin process > ;) LOL > So far all I can smell is shrimp, I think I'm wearing some or something, > or it's permanently stuck in my nose hairs ;) LOL > > Amber > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 41718	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 7/5/2009
Subject: Re: Everything is spawning I swear! LOL

I think your Angelfish are a slightly different variant than the normal species... maybe: Pterophyllum scalare leporidae Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Amber Berglund Sent: Saturday, July 04, 2009 11:01 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Everything is spawning I swear! LOL Okay so the Angel's got used to their environment and apparently feel quite safe, unless I stick my face too close to the tank then they try to scare me off ;) Good thing I did all the planting before this ;) I would have been dodging Angel's just to plant the plants in the tank ;) I figure all the hornwort makes them feel more secure too. And of course, out of all the slate I put in the tank for them, where do they lay the eggs? On the filter intake.... LOL. Amber

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 41719	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 7/5/2009
Subject: Re: Trying my hand at making a paste food

Did you use plain gelatin too? I didn't see it listed in your ingredients. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Amber Berglund Sent: Sunday, July 05, 2009 12:13 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Trying my hand at making a paste food Okay the stinky goo is in the fridge for several hours... The only thing big enough to put it in so it would come out somewhat thin was a big baking pan so I lined it with tin foil to help with easy removal ;) I think I will cut it into smaller portions that fit into ziplock bags and freeze them that way, any suggestions from anyone that is really easy? I could save my old brine shrimp plastic containers and do something like a tiny ice cube tray with them, LOL. This would be the next time around of course ;) Amber Amber Berglund wrote: > > > So I mixed together a bunch of frozen shrimp (mostly shrimp about half > the blender full, and they were berried jumbo shrimp), I also added a > few whole herring, some old flake food, some omega fish oil that I feed > the dog a little bit of, some ground fennel, some brewer's yeast, and > some garlic (I went mostly by a recipe online but couldn't find liquid > vitamin's). > I will let you guys know how it goes after I do the who gelatin process > ;) LOL > So far all I can smell is shrimp, I think I'm wearing some or something, > or it's permanently stuck in my nose hairs ;) LOL > > Amber > > ------------------------------------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the home page. Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com to receive the digest, which includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com for the No E-Mail option where you will still be able to read messages on the group and post replies. Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com to receive individual e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 41720	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 7/5/2009
Subject: Re: Trying my hand at making a paste food

Oh yes, unflavored gelatin (knox brand). I used 7 packets just because I made a HUGE batch, turned out pretty well, the dog and cats think so at least ;) LOL Will try it out tomorrow, I cut it into 4 inch by 1/2 inch strips (approx) and but 4 each or so to a zip lock so I could just thaw a bag at a time when I wanted to use it. Certianly doesn't smell "yummy" but I never was a shrimp fan ;) Not uncooked at least, LOL. Amber Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > > > Did you use plain gelatin too? I didn't see it listed in your ingredients. > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right > side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) > > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On > Behalf Of Amber Berglund > Sent: Sunday, July 05, 2009 12:13 AM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Trying my hand at making a paste food > > Okay the stinky goo is in the fridge for several hours... The only > thing big > enough to put it in so it would come out somewhat thin was a big > baking pan > so I lined it with tin foil to help with easy removal ;) I think I > will cut > it into smaller portions that fit into ziplock bags and freeze them that > way, any suggestions from anyone that is really easy? I could save my old > brine shrimp plastic containers and do something like a tiny ice cube tray > with them, LOL. This would be the next time around of course ;) > > Amber > > Amber Berglund wrote: > > > > > > So I mixed together a bunch of frozen shrimp (mostly shrimp about half > > the blender full, and they were berried jumbo shrimp), I also added a > > few whole herring, some old flake food, some omega fish oil that I feed > > the dog a little bit of, some ground fennel, some brewer's yeast, and > > some garlic (I went mostly by a recipe online but couldn't find liquid > > vitamin's). > > I will let you guys know how it goes after I do the who gelatin process > > ;) LOL > > So far all I can smell is shrimp, I think I'm wearing some or something, > > or it's permanently stuck in my nose hairs ;) LOL > > > > Amber > > > > > > ------------------------------------ > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. > ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> > PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to > the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the > SUBJECT > LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- > <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. > > If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of unsubscribing, you > can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the > home page. > > Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:aquaticlife-digest%40yahoogroups.com> to receive the digest, which > includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email > > Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:aquaticlife-nomail%40yahoogroups.com> for the No E-Mail option > where > you will still be able to read messages on the group and post replies. > > Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:aquaticlife-normal%40yahoogroups.com> to receive individual > e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 41721	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 7/5/2009
Subject: Re: Everything is spawning I swear! LOL

Did you check out my new photo of my female? She's very pretty I think she's what's called a veil tail? Maybe Ray can tell me for sure, I like her though. Just posted the photo to my photo album tonight. http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife/photos/album/243006836/pic/484754961/view?picmode=&mode=tn&order=ordinal&start=41&count=20&dir=asc And silly me I forgot to rotate it, LOL, I'll get a rotated picture up soon ;) Amber Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > > > I think your Angelfish are a slightly different variant than the normal > species... maybe: > > Pterophyllum scalare leporidae > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right > side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On > Behalf Of Amber Berglund > Sent: Saturday, July 04, 2009 11:01 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Subject: [AquaticLife] Everything is spawning I swear! LOL > > Okay so the Angel's got used to their environment and apparently feel > quite > safe, unless I stick my face too close to the tank then they try to > scare me > off ;) Good thing I did all the planting before this ;) I would have been > dodging Angel's just to plant the plants in the tank ;) I figure all the > hornwort makes them feel more secure too. > And of course, out of all the slate I put in the tank for them, where do > they lay the eggs? On the filter intake.... LOL. > > Amber > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 41722	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 7/5/2009
Subject: Re: Everything is spawning I swear! LOL

Okay I just uploaded a correctly rotated photo with just a contrast touch up, now you won't have to turn your head to look at her ;) LOL. Amber Amber Berglund wrote: > > > Did you check out my new photo of my female? She's very pretty I think > she's what's called a veil tail? Maybe Ray can tell me for sure, I like > her though. > Just posted the photo to my photo album tonight. > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife/photos/album/243006836/pic/484754961/view?picmode=&mode=tn&order=ordinal&start=41&count=20&dir=asc > <http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife/photos/album/243006836/pic/484754961/view?picmode=&mode=tn&order=ordinal&start=41&count=20&dir=asc> > And silly me I forgot to rotate it, LOL, I'll get a rotated picture up > soon ;) > > Amber > > Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > > > > > > I think your Angelfish are a slightly different variant than the normal > > species... maybe: > > > > Pterophyllum scalare leporidae > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>> > > (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right > > side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, > Month) > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On > > Behalf Of Amber Berglund > > Sent: Saturday, July 04, 2009 11:01 PM > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > Subject: [AquaticLife] Everything is spawning I swear! LOL > > > > Okay so the Angel's got used to their environment and apparently feel > > quite > > safe, unless I stick my face too close to the tank then they try to > > scare me > > off ;) Good thing I did all the planting before this ;) I would have > been > > dodging Angel's just to plant the plants in the tank ;) I figure all the > > hornwort makes them feel more secure too. > > And of course, out of all the slate I put in the tank for them, where do > > they lay the eggs? On the filter intake.... LOL. > > > > Amber > > > > > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 41723	From: Raymond Wetzel	Date: 7/5/2009
Subject: Re: Everything is spawning I swear! LOL

Yes, this female is a Veiltail. Since, as I believe your intentions are to have the pair raise the fry, you'll not be removing the eggs you'll then need to shut off the filter in about 6 days (from the time the eggs were laid). As part of the pair's pre-spawning behaviorb of cleaning the spawning site, you should not have been surprised that the filter intake was chosen -- unless you missed that -- even if there were other sites they cleaned prior to selecting this. Next time, just lean a spawning slate up against the filter intake if it reaches, so that the pair has no other choice but to use the slate if they insist on using that area. At least this way, you could then leave that slate (w/eggs) in position, but leaning up against the glass while you re-position the filter, and intake tube -- or move the slate a short distance provided they don't get too freaked out by that. Right now, the eggs will be safe from being drawn up into the filter as their adhesion to the tube is fairly strong. After hatching, which takes about 3 days, this adhesion is still fairly strong, but lessens with each proceeding day towards the free-swimming stage (takes another 3 1/2 to usually closer to 4 days). You'll need to shut the filter down (or remove the intake tube from it, moving it a short distance) early on the 3rd day to prevent the now less-adhesive wrigglers from being drawn up into the filter. As a reminder, complete shut down of the filter will kill off your nitrifying bacteria unless you supply it with an airstone. As you can see, it would have been so much less complicated to have them spawn on a slate. Some other early Angelfish breeders also used 1/2" diameter glass tubing (then obtained from a neon sign shop). Rigid plastic tubing may also be used. This is either filled with green sand and capped off, or painted green inside then filled with plain sand. Angels prefer using such tubes, simulating natural reeds, even before using slates -- but it's usually best to supply them with several, as large spawns won't fit on one such site. As they appear "solid" rather than clear, they'd much prefer to use them before filter intakes too. Ray --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, Amber Berglund <amber@...> wrote: > > Okay I just uploaded a correctly rotated photo with just a contrast > touch up, now you won't have to turn your head to look at her ;) LOL. > > Amber > > Amber Berglund wrote: > > > > > > Did you check out my new photo of my female? She's very pretty I think > > she's what's called a veil tail? Maybe Ray can tell me for sure, I like > > her though. > > Just posted the photo to my photo album tonight. > > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife/photos/album/243006836/pic/484754961/view?picmode=&mode=tn&order=ordinal&start=41&count=20&dir=asc > > <http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife/photos/album/243006836/pic/484754961/view?picmode=&mode=tn&order=ordinal&start=41&count=20&dir=asc> > > And silly me I forgot to rotate it, LOL, I'll get a rotated picture up > > soon ;) > > > > Amber > > > > Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > > > > > > > > > I think your Angelfish are a slightly different variant than the normal > > > species... maybe: > > > > > > Pterophyllum scalare leporidae > > > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>> > > > (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right > > > side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, > > Month) > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On > > > Behalf Of Amber Berglund > > > Sent: Saturday, July 04, 2009 11:01 PM > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > Subject: [AquaticLife] Everything is spawning I swear! LOL > > > > > > Okay so the Angel's got used to their environment and apparently feel > > > quite > > > safe, unless I stick my face too close to the tank then they try to > > > scare me > > > off ;) Good thing I did all the planting before this ;) I would have > > been > > > dodging Angel's just to plant the plants in the tank ;) I figure all the > > > hornwort makes them feel more secure too. > > > And of course, out of all the slate I put in the tank for them, where do > > > they lay the eggs? On the filter intake.... LOL. > > > > > > Amber > > > > > > > > > > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 41724	From: toddswoman496861@aim.com	Date: 7/5/2009
Subject: Re: Plastic canvas question and OT- kitten

the mom might be eating the poop.  I can ask on a cat group that i am on and get back to you. Kate Dale -----Original Message----- From: Menagerie_Manager <menagerie_manager@...> To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Sat, Jul 4, 2009 10:07 pm Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Plastic canvas question and OT- kitten Thanks, Lenny. You and Steve have given me enough info to get started. I also just remembered that I still have that tenite tubing that never got to be a water bridge. I bought 4 end caps to go with it, so I may just drill holes in a length of that. I'm trying to keep costs down, as I just spent $100 of birthday money on aquarium stuff and hubby's eyes are starting to glaze over when I talk about another fish related project. The minnows are still pretty small, but growing. I'm not concerned about the being hunted down, but their body circumference is not much bigger than that of the food pellets and if they were to get in the way, I'm afraid they'd get sucked in and munched. Now to do some googling and find out how long after birth a kitten should start pooping. DebR and the Three Goldfish (CB, Lucille, and Raven) ----- Original Message ----- From: "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@...> You can usually find smaller pieces at a lighting center and some of the big-box home centers. You might even find scraps at a lighting center that you might get for free. They normally come in 2' x 4' sections for use with fluorescent lighting in offices, elevators, etc. You really only need a five 6" x 6" pieces that you can tie together with nylon ties or fishing line, sand off any rough edges and add a piece of clothes hanger to use as a hanger and you're good to go for what you wanted. But, really, if your minnows are larger than fry, most of your goldfish will not likely try to snack on them. Lots of people keep various minnow type fish in with their goldfish and the goldfish do not eat them. Goldfish are omnivores but tend to prefer a more herbivorous diet. -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Menagerie_Manager Plastic canvas is for needlepoint projects: http://www.anniesattic.com/plastic_canvas/list.html?cat_id=429 I could cut openings to accommodate the minnows and keep the goldies at bay. The egg crate lighting diffusers look like they already come with the right hole size. What are the chances of finding someone who'd sell me a single sheet? ----- Original Message ----- From: "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@...> I'm not sure what you mean by "Plastic canvas". Egg-crate lighting diffuser also works great and can easily be cut to size. Although the smaller fish could still swim through the openings to the larger fish side, if they feel threatened, they could easily swim back to their safe zone. They come in 3/8" or 1/2" square openings . Here's an example of egg-crate lighting diffuser. http://www.professionalplastics.com/EGGCRATELOUVERS-LIGHTING -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Steve Szabo A perforated piece of plastic, cut to size, will make a nice divider for your tank. If you cannot find one, buy a piece of plexi, or acrylic and drill holes in it yourself. You may also find preformed tank dividers in your LFS. -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Menagerie_Manager Does anybody know if it's safe to put plastic in an aquarium? I'm thinking of using it to make a safe zone in the 75G tank for the White Cloud minnows. The more I look at them and then at the goldies, the more I think that they will become snacks if only by accident at feeding time. If I can't satisfy myself that they will be safe with the goldies, then are there any other cold water fish that will stay small that I could add to the 20G tank? ------------------------------------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (wa s re: old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the home page. Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com to receive the digest, which includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com for the No E-Mail option where you will still be able to read messages on the group and post replies. Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com to receive individual e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 41725	From: Menagerie_Manager	Date: 7/5/2009
Subject: Re: Plastic canvas question and OT- kitten

The mom's not in the picture. Haven't seen her since before I found the kitten in our garage. I think he may have been slightly dehydrated and I probably should have been giving the KMR half strength for the first day or so. He's still not acting distressed, but it's been almost a day and a half since any bowel movement. I'm starting to worry. DebR and the Three Goldfish (CB, Lucille, and Raven) ----- Original Message ----- From: <toddswoman496861@...> the mom might be eating the poop. I can ask on a cat group that i am on and get back to you. Kate Dale -----Original Message----- From: Menagerie_Manager <menagerie_manager@...> Now to do some googling and find out how long after birth a kitten should start pooping.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 41726	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 7/5/2009
Subject: Re: Everything is spawning I swear! LOL

It's not showing up. So... are you gonna wait for Ray to figure out the species variant that I added to your Angelfish OR are you gonna do it yourself? Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Amber Berglund Sent: Sunday, July 05, 2009 4:06 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Everything is spawning I swear! LOL Did you check out my new photo of my female? She's very pretty I think she's what's called a veil tail? Maybe Ray can tell me for sure, I like her though. Just posted the photo to my photo album tonight. http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife/photos/album/243006836/pic/4847549 61/view?picmode=&mode=tn&order=ordinal&start=41&count=20&dir=asc And silly me I forgot to rotate it, LOL, I'll get a rotated picture up soon ;) Amber Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > > > I think your Angelfish are a slightly different variant than the > normal species... maybe: > > Pterophyllum scalare leporidae > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> (Links to any articles referenced in > above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels > and also under Archives by Year, Month) > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On Behalf Of Amber Berglund > Sent: Saturday, July 04, 2009 11:01 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Subject: [AquaticLife] Everything is spawning I swear! LOL > > Okay so the Angel's got used to their environment and apparently feel > quite safe, unless I stick my face too close to the tank then they try > to scare me off ;) Good thing I did all the planting before this ;) I > would have been dodging Angel's just to plant the plants in the tank > ;) I figure all the hornwort makes them feel more secure too. > And of course, out of all the slate I put in the tank for them, where > do they lay the eggs? On the filter intake.... LOL. > > Amber > > ------------------------------------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the home page. Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com to receive the digest, which includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com for the No E-Mail option where you will still be able to read messages on the group and post replies. Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com to receive individual e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 41727	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 7/5/2009
Subject: Re: Everything is spawning I swear! LOL

Ahhhh.. I guess it would have been easier to turn my head instead of rotating my monitor. Just kidding. I still haven't been able to view the pic. The picture still isn't showing up (and it's not in the pending photos either), unless I'm missing it. I sorted your album to last modified and the most recent pic in the album is P1030847 but it's a full tank shot.. or maybe one end of a tank but I don't see an Angelfish. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Amber Berglund Sent: Sunday, July 05, 2009 4:09 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Everything is spawning I swear! LOL Okay I just uploaded a correctly rotated photo with just a contrast touch up, now you won't have to turn your head to look at her ;) LOL. Amber Amber Berglund wrote: > > > Did you check out my new photo of my female? She's very pretty I think > she's what's called a veil tail? Maybe Ray can tell me for sure, I > like her though. > Just posted the photo to my photo album tonight. > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife/photos/album/243006836/pic/4 > 84754961/view?picmode=&mode=tn&order=ordinal&start=41&count=20&dir=asc > <http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife/photos/album/243006836/pic/ > 484754961/view?picmode=&mode=tn&order=ordinal&start=41&count=20&dir=as > c> And silly me I forgot to rotate it, LOL, I'll get a rotated picture > up soon ;) > > Amber > > Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > > > > > > I think your Angelfish are a slightly different variant than the > > normal species... maybe: > > > > Pterophyllum scalare leporidae > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>> > > (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the > > right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by > > Year, > Month) > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On Behalf Of Amber Berglund > > Sent: Saturday, July 04, 2009 11:01 PM > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > Subject: [AquaticLife] Everything is spawning I swear! LOL > > > > Okay so the Angel's got used to their environment and apparently > > feel quite safe, unless I stick my face too close to the tank then > > they try to scare me off ;) Good thing I did all the planting before > > this ;) I would have > been > > dodging Angel's just to plant the plants in the tank ;) I figure all > > the hornwort makes them feel more secure too. > > And of course, out of all the slate I put in the tank for them, > > where do they lay the eggs? On the filter intake.... LOL. > > > > Amber > > > > > > ------------------------------------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the home page. Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com to receive the digest, which includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com for the No E-Mail option where you will still be able to read messages on the group and post replies. Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com to receive individual e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 41728	From: toddswoman496861@aim.com	Date: 7/5/2009
Subject: Re: Plastic canvas question and OT- kitten

you need to get ahold of your vet or get him to a vet. do you take a wet, moist towel to its rectum and rub directly on that? Kate Dale -----Original Message----- From: Menagerie_Manager <menagerie_manager@...> To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Sun, Jul 5, 2009 10:56 am Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Plastic canvas question and OT- kitten The mom's not in the picture. Haven't seen her since before I found the kitten in our garage. I think he may have been slightly dehydrated and I probably should have been giving the KMR half strength for the first day or so. He's still not acting distressed, but it's been almost a day and a half since any bowel movement. I'm starting to worry. DebR and the Three Goldfish (CB, Lucille, and Raven) ----- Original Message ----- From: <toddswoman496861@...> the mom might be eating the poop. I can ask on a cat group that i am on and get back to you. Kate Dale -----Original Message----- From: Menagerie_Manager <menagerie_manager@...> Now to do some googling and find out how long after birth a kitten should start pooping. ------------------------------------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. `..><((((>.`..`.><((((> .`.. , .`..><((((> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <((((><.`..`.<((((><.`.. , .`..<((((><`.. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the home page. Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com to receive the digest, which includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com for the No E-Mail option where you will still be able to read messages on the group and post replies. Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com to receive individual e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife/ Individual Email | Traditional http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife/join (Yahoo! ID required) mailto:AquaticLife-digest@yahoogroups.com mailto:AquaticLife-fullfeatured@yahoogroups.com AquaticLife-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 41729	From: Raymond Wetzel	Date: 7/5/2009
Subject: Re: Everything is spawning I swear! LOL

The photo is there. I couldn't find it using the first link supplied, so instead of trying the revised link, I went directly to the Photo selection on the group homepage's menu and replied to it at 7:23 AM. Where have you been all this while <G>? Ray --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@...> wrote: > > Ahhhh.. I guess it would have been easier to turn my head instead of > rotating my monitor. > > Just kidding. I still haven't been able to view the pic. > > The picture still isn't showing up (and it's not in the pending photos > either), unless I'm missing it. I sorted your album to last modified and > the most recent pic in the album is P1030847 but it's a full tank shot.. or > maybe one end of a tank but I don't see an Angelfish. > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right > side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) > > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On > Behalf Of Amber Berglund > Sent: Sunday, July 05, 2009 4:09 AM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Everything is spawning I swear! LOL > > Okay I just uploaded a correctly rotated photo with just a contrast touch > up, now you won't have to turn your head to look at her ;) LOL. > > Amber > > Amber Berglund wrote: > > > > > > Did you check out my new photo of my female? She's very pretty I think > > she's what's called a veil tail? Maybe Ray can tell me for sure, I > > like her though. > > Just posted the photo to my photo album tonight. > > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife/photos/album/243006836/pic/4 > > 84754961/view?picmode=&mode=tn&order=ordinal&start=41&count=20&dir=asc > > <http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife/photos/album/243006836/pic/ > > 484754961/view?picmode=&mode=tn&order=ordinal&start=41&count=20&dir=as > > c> And silly me I forgot to rotate it, LOL, I'll get a rotated picture > > up soon ;) > > > > Amber > > > > Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > > > > > > > > > I think your Angelfish are a slightly different variant than the > > > normal species... maybe: > > > > > > Pterophyllum scalare leporidae > > > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>> > > > (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the > > > right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by > > > Year, > > Month) > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On Behalf Of Amber Berglund > > > Sent: Saturday, July 04, 2009 11:01 PM > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > Subject: [AquaticLife] Everything is spawning I swear! LOL > > > > > > Okay so the Angel's got used to their environment and apparently > > > feel quite safe, unless I stick my face too close to the tank then > > > they try to scare me off ;) Good thing I did all the planting before > > > this ;) I would have > > been > > > dodging Angel's just to plant the plants in the tank ;) I figure all > > > the hornwort makes them feel more secure too. > > > And of course, out of all the slate I put in the tank for them, > > > where do they lay the eggs? On the filter intake.... LOL. > > > > > > Amber > > > > > > > > > > > > > ------------------------------------ > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. > ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> > PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to > the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT > LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- > <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. > > If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of unsubscribing, you > can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the > home page. > > Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com to receive the digest, which > includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email > > Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com for the No E-Mail option where > you will still be able to read messages on the group and post replies. > > Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com to receive individual > e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 41730	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 7/5/2009
Subject: Re: Everything is spawning I swear! LOL

Yeah. I saw after that message that she uploaded several more pics. The "Female Angelfish" pic is now number 7 in the album (when sorted to last modified). So Ray, what did you think of the scientific name change variant that I added to her fish? SNIP FROM THE BELOW THREAD- > > > I think your Angelfish are a slightly different variant than the > > > normal species... maybe: > > > > > > Pterophyllum scalare var. leporidae <G> Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Raymond Wetzel Sent: Sunday, July 05, 2009 1:47 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Everything is spawning I swear! LOL The photo is there. I couldn't find it using the first link supplied, so instead of trying the revised link, I went directly to the Photo selection on the group homepage's menu and replied to it at 7:23 AM. Where have you been all this while <G>? Ray --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@...> wrote: > > Ahhhh.. I guess it would have been easier to turn my head instead of > rotating my monitor. > > Just kidding. I still haven't been able to view the pic. > > The picture still isn't showing up (and it's not in the pending photos > either), unless I'm missing it. I sorted your album to last modified > and the most recent pic in the album is P1030847 but it's a full tank > shot.. or maybe one end of a tank but I don't see an Angelfish. > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles > referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically > under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) > > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] > On Behalf Of Amber Berglund > Sent: Sunday, July 05, 2009 4:09 AM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Everything is spawning I swear! LOL > > Okay I just uploaded a correctly rotated photo with just a contrast > touch up, now you won't have to turn your head to look at her ;) LOL. > > Amber > > Amber Berglund wrote: > > > > > > Did you check out my new photo of my female? She's very pretty I > > think she's what's called a veil tail? Maybe Ray can tell me for > > sure, I like her though. > > Just posted the photo to my photo album tonight. > > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife/photos/album/243006836/pic > > /4 > > 84754961/view?picmode=&mode=tn&order=ordinal&start=41&count=20&dir=a > > sc > > <http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife/photos/album/243006836/pi > > c/ > > 484754961/view?picmode=&mode=tn&order=ordinal&start=41&count=20&dir= > > as > > c> And silly me I forgot to rotate it, LOL, I'll get a rotated > > c> picture > > up soon ;) > > > > Amber > > > > Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > > > > > > > > > I think your Angelfish are a slightly different variant than the > > > normal species... maybe: > > > > > > Pterophyllum scalare leporidae > > > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>> > > > (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the > > > right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by > > > Year, > > Month) > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On Behalf Of Amber > > > Berglund > > > Sent: Saturday, July 04, 2009 11:01 PM > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > Subject: [AquaticLife] Everything is spawning I swear! LOL > > > > > > Okay so the Angel's got used to their environment and apparently > > > feel quite safe, unless I stick my face too close to the tank then > > > they try to scare me off ;) Good thing I did all the planting > > > before this ;) I would have > > been > > > dodging Angel's just to plant the plants in the tank ;) I figure > > > all the hornwort makes them feel more secure too. > > > And of course, out of all the slate I put in the tank for them, > > > where do they lay the eggs? On the filter intake.... LOL. > > > > > > Amber

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 41731	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 7/5/2009
Subject: Re: Everything is spawning I swear! LOL

I covered the end of the intake tube in several layers of nettting (that you get from a hardware store), I don't know how small it needs to be but it's probably not small enough to protect the fry from being sucked up. I can float the inserts in the filter in the tank to help keep the bacteria alive, or I could put them back into another tank too. I had slate leaning up against next to both sides of the intake filter hoping they might use them, I didn't think to lean the largest one right up against the intake tube, I thought it would block the flow too much. Next time I'll try adding more slate to the tank, I had 2 medium sized pieces but I have more in my 125 gallon tank too, and plenty outside, LOL. Amber Raymond Wetzel wrote: > > > Yes, this female is a Veiltail. Since, as I believe your intentions > are to have the pair raise the fry, you'll not be removing the eggs > you'll then need to shut off the filter in about 6 days (from the time > the eggs were laid). As part of the pair's pre-spawning behaviorb of > cleaning the spawning site, you should not have been surprised that > the filter intake was chosen -- unless you missed that -- even if > there were other sites they cleaned prior to selecting this. > > Next time, just lean a spawning slate up against the filter intake if > it reaches, so that the pair has no other choice but to use the slate > if they insist on using that area. At least this way, you could then > leave that slate (w/eggs) in position, but leaning up against the > glass while you re-position the filter, and intake tube -- or move the > slate a short distance provided they don't get too freaked out by that. > > Right now, the eggs will be safe from being drawn up into the filter > as their adhesion to the tube is fairly strong. After hatching, which > takes about 3 days, this adhesion is still fairly strong, but lessens > with each proceeding day towards the free-swimming stage (takes > another 3 1/2 to usually closer to 4 days). You'll need to shut the > filter down (or remove the intake tube from it, moving it a short > distance) early on the 3rd day to prevent the now less-adhesive > wrigglers from being drawn up into the filter. As a reminder, complete > shut down of the filter will kill off your nitrifying bacteria unless > you supply it with an airstone. As you can see, it would have been so > much less complicated to have them spawn on a slate. > > Some other early Angelfish breeders also used 1/2" diameter glass > tubing (then obtained from a neon sign shop). Rigid plastic tubing may > also be used. This is either filled with green sand and capped off, or > painted green inside then filled with plain sand. Angels prefer using > such tubes, simulating natural reeds, even before using slates -- but > it's usually best to supply them with several, as large spawns won't > fit on one such site. As they appear "solid" rather than clear, they'd > much prefer to use them before filter intakes too. Ray > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>, Amber Berglund <amber@...> wrote: > > > > Okay I just uploaded a correctly rotated photo with just a contrast > > touch up, now you won't have to turn your head to look at her ;) LOL. > > > > Amber > > > > Amber Berglund wrote: > > > > > > > > > Did you check out my new photo of my female? She's very pretty I think > > > she's what's called a veil tail? Maybe Ray can tell me for sure, I > like > > > her though. > > > Just posted the photo to my photo album tonight. > > > > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife/photos/album/243006836/pic/484754961/view?picmode=&mode=tn&order=ordinal&start=41&count=20&dir=asc > <http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife/photos/album/243006836/pic/484754961/view?picmode=&mode=tn&order=ordinal&start=41&count=20&dir=asc> > > > > > <http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife/photos/album/243006836/pic/484754961/view?picmode=&mode=tn&order=ordinal&start=41&count=20&dir=asc > <http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife/photos/album/243006836/pic/484754961/view?picmode=&mode=tn&order=ordinal&start=41&count=20&dir=asc>> > > > And silly me I forgot to rotate it, LOL, I'll get a rotated picture up > > > soon ;) > > > > > > Amber > > > > > > Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > I think your Angelfish are a slightly different variant than the > normal > > > > species... maybe: > > > > > > > > Pterophyllum scalare leporidae > > > > > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>>> > > > > (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on > the right > > > > side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, > > > Month) > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On > > > > Behalf Of Amber Berglund > > > > Sent: Saturday, July 04, 2009 11:01 PM > > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > Subject: [AquaticLife] Everything is spawning I swear! LOL > > > > > > > > Okay so the Angel's got used to their environment and apparently > feel > > > > quite > > > > safe, unless I stick my face too close to the tank then they try to > > > > scare me > > > > off ;) Good thing I did all the planting before this ;) I would > have > > > been > > > > dodging Angel's just to plant the plants in the tank ;) I figure > all the > > > > hornwort makes them feel more secure too. > > > > And of course, out of all the slate I put in the tank for them, > where do > > > > they lay the eggs? On the filter intake.... LOL. > > > > > > > > Amber > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 41732	From: jett07002	Date: 7/5/2009
Subject: Re: Bolivian Ram

Hello Allen I don't know if time will weary the king, but I do know time is sure going to weary the hell out of the subject. (The subordinate fish.) You did not mention if the tank was planted or had ornaments where the other fish could hide, but that I think is irrelevant since I am pretty sure a 10 gal tank is too small. joe t >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 41733	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 7/5/2009
Subject: Re: Everything is spawning I swear! LOL

Yeah I know, where have you been? LOL. He said it was a veiltail just like I thought she was, but I don't know anything else, I thought she was a wild type. Amber Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > > > Yeah. I saw after that message that she uploaded several more pics. The > "Female Angelfish" pic is now number 7 in the album (when sorted to last > modified). > > So Ray, what did you think of the scientific name change variant that I > added to her fish? > > SNIP FROM THE BELOW THREAD- > > > > I think your Angelfish are a slightly different variant than the > > > > normal species... maybe: > > > > > > > > Pterophyllum scalare var. leporidae > > <G> > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right > side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On > Behalf Of Raymond Wetzel > Sent: Sunday, July 05, 2009 1:47 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Everything is spawning I swear! LOL > > The photo is there. I couldn't find it using the first link supplied, so > instead of trying the revised link, I went directly to the Photo selection > on the group homepage's menu and replied to it at 7:23 AM. Where have you > been all this while <G>? Ray > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>, "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" > <GoldLenny@...> > wrote: > > > > Ahhhh.. I guess it would have been easier to turn my head instead of > > rotating my monitor. > > > > Just kidding. I still haven't been able to view the pic. > > > > The picture still isn't showing up (and it's not in the pending photos > > either), unless I'm missing it. I sorted your album to last modified > > and the most recent pic in the album is P1030847 but it's a full tank > > shot.. or maybe one end of a tank but I don't see an Angelfish. > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> (Links to any articles > > referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically > > under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] > > On Behalf Of Amber Berglund > > Sent: Sunday, July 05, 2009 4:09 AM > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Everything is spawning I swear! LOL > > > > Okay I just uploaded a correctly rotated photo with just a contrast > > touch up, now you won't have to turn your head to look at her ;) LOL. > > > > Amber > > > > Amber Berglund wrote: > > > > > > > > > Did you check out my new photo of my female? She's very pretty I > > > think she's what's called a veil tail? Maybe Ray can tell me for > > > sure, I like her though. > > > Just posted the photo to my photo album tonight. > > > > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife/photos/album/243006836/pic > <http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife/photos/album/243006836/pic> > > > /4 > > > 84754961/view?picmode=&mode=tn&order=ordinal&start=41&count=20&dir=a > > > sc > > > > <http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife/photos/album/243006836/pi > <http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife/photos/album/243006836/pi> > > > c/ > > > 484754961/view?picmode=&mode=tn&order=ordinal&start=41&count=20&dir= > > > as > > > c> And silly me I forgot to rotate it, LOL, I'll get a rotated > > > c> picture > > > up soon ;) > > > > > > Amber > > > > > > Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > I think your Angelfish are a slightly different variant than the > > > > normal species... maybe: > > > > > > > > Pterophyllum scalare leporidae > > > > > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>>> > > > > (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the > > > > right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by > > > > Year, > > > Month) > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On Behalf Of Amber > > > > Berglund > > > > Sent: Saturday, July 04, 2009 11:01 PM > > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > Subject: [AquaticLife] Everything is spawning I swear! LOL > > > > > > > > Okay so the Angel's got used to their environment and apparently > > > > feel quite safe, unless I stick my face too close to the tank then > > > > they try to scare me off ;) Good thing I did all the planting > > > > before this ;) I would have > > > been > > > > dodging Angel's just to plant the plants in the tank ;) I figure > > > > all the hornwort makes them feel more secure too. > > > > And of course, out of all the slate I put in the tank for them, > > > > where do they lay the eggs? On the filter intake.... LOL. > > > > > > > > Amber > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 41734	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 7/5/2009
Subject: Re: Trying my hand at making a paste food

Well I'd have to say the new food is a HIT, except the severum is a little stupid and doesn't know it's food, same with the Angel's. All the small fish say, "Yummy!" LOL. I'm sure the other guys will figure it out soon enough. I know their hungry, especially the angel's I forgot to feed 'em yesterday I think (was a busy 4th). Amber Amber Berglund wrote: > > > Oh yes, unflavored gelatin (knox brand). I used 7 packets just because I > made a HUGE batch, turned out pretty well, the dog and cats think so at > least ;) LOL > Will try it out tomorrow, I cut it into 4 inch by 1/2 inch strips > (approx) and but 4 each or so to a zip lock so I could just thaw a bag > at a time when I wanted to use it. > Certianly doesn't smell "yummy" but I never was a shrimp fan ;) Not > uncooked at least, LOL. > > Amber > > Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > > > > > > Did you use plain gelatin too? I didn't see it listed in your > ingredients. > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>> > > (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right > > side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, > Month) > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On > > Behalf Of Amber Berglund > > Sent: Sunday, July 05, 2009 12:13 AM > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Trying my hand at making a paste food > > > > Okay the stinky goo is in the fridge for several hours... The only > > thing big > > enough to put it in so it would come out somewhat thin was a big > > baking pan > > so I lined it with tin foil to help with easy removal ;) I think I > > will cut > > it into smaller portions that fit into ziplock bags and freeze them that > > way, any suggestions from anyone that is really easy? I could save > my old > > brine shrimp plastic containers and do something like a tiny ice > cube tray > > with them, LOL. This would be the next time around of course ;) > > > > Amber > > > > Amber Berglund wrote: > > > > > > > > > So I mixed together a bunch of frozen shrimp (mostly shrimp about half > > > the blender full, and they were berried jumbo shrimp), I also added a > > > few whole herring, some old flake food, some omega fish oil that I > feed > > > the dog a little bit of, some ground fennel, some brewer's yeast, and > > > some garlic (I went mostly by a recipe online but couldn't find liquid > > > vitamin's). > > > I will let you guys know how it goes after I do the who gelatin > process > > > ;) LOL > > > So far all I can smell is shrimp, I think I'm wearing some or > something, > > > or it's permanently stuck in my nose hairs ;) LOL > > > > > > Amber > > > > > > > > > > ------------------------------------ > > > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, > Thank You. > > ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> > > PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT > important to > > the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the > > SUBJECT > > LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- > > <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. > > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. > > > > If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of > unsubscribing, you > > can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My Membership" > on the > > home page. > > > > Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:aquaticlife-digest%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:aquaticlife-digest%40yahoogroups.com> to receive the digest, > which > > includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email > > > > Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:aquaticlife-nomail%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:aquaticlife-nomail%40yahoogroups.com> for the No E-Mail option > > where > > you will still be able to read messages on the group and post replies. > > > > Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:aquaticlife-normal%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:aquaticlife-normal%40yahoogroups.com> to receive individual > > e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 41735	From: Gwydryn@aol.com	Date: 7/5/2009
Subject: Re: Everything is spawning I swear! LOL

In a message dated 7/5/2009 2:04:34 P.M. Central Daylight Time, GoldLenny@... writes: Yeah. I saw after that message that she uploaded several more pics. The "Female Angelfish" pic is now number 7 in the album (when sorted to last modified). So Ray, what did you think of the scientific name change variant that I added to her fish? Ok, I'm not Ray, but maybe it's just the water, and NOT a leporine variant of Angelfish! Enid "Life is not about waiting for the storms to pass...it's about learning how to dance in the rain." **************An Excellent Credit Score is 750. See Yours in Just 2 Easy Steps! (http://pr.atwola.com/promoclk/100126575x1222887319x1201497660/aol?redir=http://www.freecreditreport.com/pm/default.aspx?sc=668072&hmpgID=62&bcd=Jul yExcfooterNO62) [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 41736	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 7/5/2009
Subject: Re: Trying my hand at making a paste food

Well well, I found someone else who LOVES the fish food paste, the dog... He "accidentally" got to try some last night and he expected me to feed him some with the fish this morning. He even sat at his food bowl and waited ;) LOL. I guess I'm the world's greatest animal food cook, can't say that about human food ;) LOL Amber Amber Berglund wrote: > > > Oh yes, unflavored gelatin (knox brand). I used 7 packets just because I > made a HUGE batch, turned out pretty well, the dog and cats think so at > least ;) LOL > Will try it out tomorrow, I cut it into 4 inch by 1/2 inch strips > (approx) and but 4 each or so to a zip lock so I could just thaw a bag > at a time when I wanted to use it. > Certianly doesn't smell "yummy" but I never was a shrimp fan ;) Not > uncooked at least, LOL. > > Amber > > Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > > > > > > Did you use plain gelatin too? I didn't see it listed in your > ingredients. > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>> > > (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right > > side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, > Month) > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On > > Behalf Of Amber Berglund > > Sent: Sunday, July 05, 2009 12:13 AM > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Trying my hand at making a paste food > > > > Okay the stinky goo is in the fridge for several hours... The only > > thing big > > enough to put it in so it would come out somewhat thin was a big > > baking pan > > so I lined it with tin foil to help with easy removal ;) I think I > > will cut > > it into smaller portions that fit into ziplock bags and freeze them that > > way, any suggestions from anyone that is really easy? I could save > my old > > brine shrimp plastic containers and do something like a tiny ice > cube tray > > with them, LOL. This would be the next time around of course ;) > > > > Amber > > > > Amber Berglund wrote: > > > > > > > > > So I mixed together a bunch of frozen shrimp (mostly shrimp about half > > > the blender full, and they were berried jumbo shrimp), I also added a > > > few whole herring, some old flake food, some omega fish oil that I > feed > > > the dog a little bit of, some ground fennel, some brewer's yeast, and > > > some garlic (I went mostly by a recipe online but couldn't find liquid > > > vitamin's). > > > I will let you guys know how it goes after I do the who gelatin > process > > > ;) LOL > > > So far all I can smell is shrimp, I think I'm wearing some or > something, > > > or it's permanently stuck in my nose hairs ;) LOL > > > > > > Amber > > > > > > > > > > ------------------------------------ > > > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, > Thank You. > > ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> > > PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT > important to > > the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the > > SUBJECT > > LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- > > <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. > > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. > > > > If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of > unsubscribing, you > > can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My Membership" > on the > > home page. > > > > Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:aquaticlife-digest%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:aquaticlife-digest%40yahoogroups.com> to receive the digest, > which > > includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email > > > > Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:aquaticlife-nomail%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:aquaticlife-nomail%40yahoogroups.com> for the No E-Mail option > > where > > you will still be able to read messages on the group and post replies. > > > > Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:aquaticlife-normal%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:aquaticlife-normal%40yahoogroups.com> to receive individual > > e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 41737	From: bill 1433	Date: 7/5/2009
Subject: Re: Trying my hand at making a paste food

Amber, Years ago I had a great recipe for a food that was also mixed with Knox Gelatin. I never kept the recipe but I do remember shrimp plus a lot of spinach. I remember also the use of cookie sheets to spread and freeze it. I got yelled at for that one! My severum's at the time, loved it. Bill --- On Sun, 7/5/09, Amber Berglund <amber@...> wrote: > From: Amber Berglund <amber@...> > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Trying my hand at making a paste food > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Date: Sunday, July 5, 2009, 3:33 PM > Well I'd have to say the new food is > a HIT, except the severum is a > little stupid and doesn't know it's food, same with the > Angel's. All the > small fish say, "Yummy!" LOL. > I'm sure the other guys will figure it out soon enough. I > know their > hungry, especially the angel's I forgot to feed 'em > yesterday I think > (was a busy 4th). > > Amber > > Amber Berglund wrote: > > > > > > Oh yes, unflavored gelatin (knox brand). I used 7 > packets just because I > > made a HUGE batch, turned out pretty well, the dog and > cats think so at > > least ;) LOL > > Will try it out tomorrow, I cut it into 4 inch by 1/2 > inch strips > > (approx) and but 4 each or so to a zip lock so I could > just thaw a bag > > at a time when I wanted to use it. > > Certianly doesn't smell "yummy" but I never was a > shrimp fan ;) Not > > uncooked at least, LOL. > > > > Amber > > > > Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > > > > > > > > > Did you use plain gelatin too? I didn't see it > listed in your > > ingredients. > > > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>> > > > (Links to any articles referenced in above reply > are listed on the right > > > side, alphabetically under Labels and also under > Archives by Year, > > Month) > > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On > > > Behalf Of Amber Berglund > > > Sent: Sunday, July 05, 2009 12:13 AM > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Trying my hand at > making a paste food > > > > > > Okay the stinky goo is in the fridge for several > hours... The only > > > thing big > > > enough to put it in so it would come out somewhat > thin was a big > > > baking pan > > > so I lined it with tin foil to help with easy > removal ;) I think I > > > will cut > > > it into smaller portions that fit into ziplock > bags and freeze them that > > > way, any suggestions from anyone that is really > easy? I could save > > my old > > > brine shrimp plastic containers and do something > like a tiny ice > > cube tray > > > with them, LOL. This would be the next time > around of course ;) > > > > > > Amber > > > > > > Amber Berglund wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > So I mixed together a bunch of frozen shrimp > (mostly shrimp about half > > > > the blender full, and they were berried > jumbo shrimp), I also added a > > > > few whole herring, some old flake food, some > omega fish oil that I > > feed > > > > the dog a little bit of, some ground fennel, > some brewer's yeast, and > > > > some garlic (I went mostly by a recipe > online but couldn't find liquid > > > > vitamin's). > > > > I will let you guys know how it goes after I > do the who gelatin > > process > > > > ;) LOL > > > > So far all I can smell is shrimp, I think > I'm wearing some or > > something, > > > > or it's permanently stuck in my nose hairs > ;) LOL > > > > > > > > Amber > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ------------------------------------ > > > > > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it > when replying, > > Thank You. > > > > ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> > ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> > > > PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT > that is NOT > > important to > > > the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the > original message MODIFY the > > > SUBJECT > > > LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old > subject)" <- > > > > <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. > , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. > > > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this > matter. > > > > > > If you do not want all of the groups emails, > instead of > > unsubscribing, you > > > can change your delivery option by clicking on > "Edit My Membership" > > on the > > > home page. > > > > > > Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com > > > <mailto:aquaticlife-digest%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > <mailto:aquaticlife-digest%40yahoogroups.com> to > receive the digest, > > which > > > includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single > email > > > > > > Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com > > > <mailto:aquaticlife-nomail%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > <mailto:aquaticlife-nomail%40yahoogroups.com> for the > No E-Mail option > > > where > > > you will still be able to read messages on the > group and post replies. > > > > > > Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com > > > <mailto:aquaticlife-normal%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > <mailto:aquaticlife-normal%40yahoogroups.com> to > receive individual > > > e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > > > > > > > > ------------------------------------ > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when > replying, Thank You. > ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> > ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> > PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is > NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of > the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new > subject (was re: old subject)" <- > <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. > , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. > > If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of > unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by > clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the home page.  > > Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com > to receive the digest, which includes up to 25 posts at a > time in a single email > > Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com > for the No E-Mail option where you will still be able to > read messages on the group and post replies. > > Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com > to receive individual e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links > > >     mailto:AquaticLife-fullfeatured@yahoogroups.com > > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 41738	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 7/5/2009
Subject: Re: Trying my hand at making a paste food

No one to yell at me in my house ;) I wear the pants, *looks for hubby* most of the time, LOL. I used green beans and peas instead of spinach (didn't have any on hand). My severum doesn't know that it's food yet... I'm sure he will catch on quickly. Seems to be a hit with the guppy's, cory's, rams, platy's, and tetra's so far. Oh and the betta loves it, haven't seen the frog going after it yet, will have to wait and see ;) he's usually a greedy little eater. Amber bill 1433 wrote: > > > > Amber, > > Years ago I had a great recipe for a food that was also mixed > with Knox Gelatin. I never kept the recipe but I do remember shrimp plus > a lot of spinach. I remember also the use of cookie sheets to spread > and freeze it. I got yelled at for that one! My severum's at the time, > loved it. > > Bill > > --- On Sun, 7/5/09, Amber Berglund <amber@... > <mailto:amber%40rose-fields.com>> wrote: > > > From: Amber Berglund <amber@... > <mailto:amber%40rose-fields.com>> > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Trying my hand at making a paste food > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > Date: Sunday, July 5, 2009, 3:33 PM > > Well I'd have to say the new food is > > a HIT, except the severum is a > > little stupid and doesn't know it's food, same with the > > Angel's. All the > > small fish say, "Yummy!" LOL. > > I'm sure the other guys will figure it out soon enough. I > > know their > > hungry, especially the angel's I forgot to feed 'em > > yesterday I think > > (was a busy 4th). > > > > Amber > > > > Amber Berglund wrote: > > > > > > > > > Oh yes, unflavored gelatin (knox brand). I used 7 > > packets just because I > > > made a HUGE batch, turned out pretty well, the dog and > > cats think so at > > > least ;) LOL > > > Will try it out tomorrow, I cut it into 4 inch by 1/2 > > inch strips > > > (approx) and but 4 each or so to a zip lock so I could > > just thaw a bag > > > at a time when I wanted to use it. > > > Certianly doesn't smell "yummy" but I never was a > > shrimp fan ;) Not > > > uncooked at least, LOL. > > > > > > Amber > > > > > > Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > Did you use plain gelatin too? I didn't see it > > listed in your > > > ingredients. > > > > > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>>> > > > > (Links to any articles referenced in above reply > > are listed on the right > > > > side, alphabetically under Labels and also under > > Archives by Year, > > > Month) > > > > > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On > > > > Behalf Of Amber Berglund > > > > Sent: Sunday, July 05, 2009 12:13 AM > > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Trying my hand at > > making a paste food > > > > > > > > Okay the stinky goo is in the fridge for several > > hours... The only > > > > thing big > > > > enough to put it in so it would come out somewhat > > thin was a big > > > > baking pan > > > > so I lined it with tin foil to help with easy > > removal ;) I think I > > > > will cut > > > > it into smaller portions that fit into ziplock > > bags and freeze them that > > > > way, any suggestions from anyone that is really > > easy? I could save > > > my old > > > > brine shrimp plastic containers and do something > > like a tiny ice > > > cube tray > > > > with them, LOL. This would be the next time > > around of course ;) > > > > > > > > Amber > > > > > > > > Amber Berglund wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > So I mixed together a bunch of frozen shrimp > > (mostly shrimp about half > > > > > the blender full, and they were berried > > jumbo shrimp), I also added a > > > > > few whole herring, some old flake food, some > > omega fish oil that I > > > feed > > > > > the dog a little bit of, some ground fennel, > > some brewer's yeast, and > > > > > some garlic (I went mostly by a recipe > > online but couldn't find liquid > > > > > vitamin's). > > > > > I will let you guys know how it goes after I > > do the who gelatin > > > process > > > > > ;) LOL > > > > > So far all I can smell is shrimp, I think > > I'm wearing some or > > > something, > > > > > or it's permanently stuck in my nose hairs > > ;) LOL > > > > > > > > > > Amber > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ------------------------------------ > > > > > > > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it > > when replying, > > > Thank You. > > > > > > ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> > > ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> > > > > PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT > > that is NOT > > > important to > > > > the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the > > original message MODIFY the > > > > SUBJECT > > > > LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old > > subject)" <- > > > > > > <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. > > , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. > > > > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this > > matter. > > > > > > > > If you do not want all of the groups emails, > > instead of > > > unsubscribing, you > > > > can change your delivery option by clicking on > > "Edit My Membership" > > > on the > > > > home page. > > > > > > > > Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:aquaticlife-digest%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > <mailto:aquaticlife-digest%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > <mailto:aquaticlife-digest%40yahoogroups.com> to > > receive the digest, > > > which > > > > includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single > > email > > > > > > > > Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:aquaticlife-nomail%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > <mailto:aquaticlife-nomail%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > <mailto:aquaticlife-nomail%40yahoogroups.com> for the > > No E-Mail option > > > > where > > > > you will still be able to read messages on the > > group and post replies. > > > > > > > > Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:aquaticlife-normal%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > <mailto:aquaticlife-normal%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > <mailto:aquaticlife-normal%40yahoogroups.com> to > > receive individual > > > > e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ------------------------------------ > > > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when > > replying, Thank You. > > ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> > > ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> > > PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is > > NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of > > the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new > > subject (was re: old subject)" <- > > <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. > > , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. > > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. > > > > If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of > > unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by > > clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the home page. > > > > Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:aquaticlife-digest%40yahoogroups.com> > > to receive the digest, which includes up to 25 posts at a > > time in a single email > > > > Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:aquaticlife-nomail%40yahoogroups.com> > > for the No E-Mail option where you will still be able to > > read messages on the group and post replies. > > > > Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:aquaticlife-normal%40yahoogroups.com> > > to receive individual e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > mailto:AquaticLife-fullfeatured@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife-fullfeatured%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 41739	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 7/5/2009
Subject: Re: Trying my hand at making a paste food

Ah yes, the dwarf frog found it too, he's hoarding it from the betta ;) LOL. So besides my bigger fish everyone loves it, I'm sure the big guys will catch on after they watch all the little guys munching away at it. The hillstream loaches eat last after everything else goes away, so I'm sure they'll be all over it soon enough ;) Amber Amber Berglund wrote: > > > No one to yell at me in my house ;) I wear the pants, *looks for hubby* > most of the time, LOL. > I used green beans and peas instead of spinach (didn't have any on > hand). My severum doesn't know that it's food yet... I'm sure he will > catch on quickly. > Seems to be a hit with the guppy's, cory's, rams, platy's, and tetra's > so far. Oh and the betta loves it, haven't seen the frog going after it > yet, will have to wait and see ;) he's usually a greedy little eater. > > Amber > > bill 1433 wrote: > > > > > > > > Amber, > > > > Years ago I had a great recipe for a food that was also mixed > > with Knox Gelatin. I never kept the recipe but I do remember shrimp plus > > a lot of spinach. I remember also the use of cookie sheets to spread > > and freeze it. I got yelled at for that one! My severum's at the time, > > loved it. > > > > Bill > > > > --- On Sun, 7/5/09, Amber Berglund <amber@... > <mailto:amber%40rose-fields.com> > > <mailto:amber%40rose-fields.com>> wrote: > > > > > From: Amber Berglund <amber@... > <mailto:amber%40rose-fields.com> > > <mailto:amber%40rose-fields.com>> > > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Trying my hand at making a paste food > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > Date: Sunday, July 5, 2009, 3:33 PM > > > Well I'd have to say the new food is > > > a HIT, except the severum is a > > > little stupid and doesn't know it's food, same with the > > > Angel's. All the > > > small fish say, "Yummy!" LOL. > > > I'm sure the other guys will figure it out soon enough. I > > > know their > > > hungry, especially the angel's I forgot to feed 'em > > > yesterday I think > > > (was a busy 4th). > > > > > > Amber > > > > > > Amber Berglund wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > Oh yes, unflavored gelatin (knox brand). I used 7 > > > packets just because I > > > > made a HUGE batch, turned out pretty well, the dog and > > > cats think so at > > > > least ;) LOL > > > > Will try it out tomorrow, I cut it into 4 inch by 1/2 > > > inch strips > > > > (approx) and but 4 each or so to a zip lock so I could > > > just thaw a bag > > > > at a time when I wanted to use it. > > > > Certianly doesn't smell "yummy" but I never was a > > > shrimp fan ;) Not > > > > uncooked at least, LOL. > > > > > > > > Amber > > > > > > > > Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Did you use plain gelatin too? I didn't see it > > > listed in your > > > > ingredients. > > > > > > > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > > > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>> > > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>>> > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>> > > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>>>> > > > > > (Links to any articles referenced in above reply > > > are listed on the right > > > > > side, alphabetically under Labels and also under > > > Archives by Year, > > > > Month) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On > > > > > Behalf Of Amber Berglund > > > > > Sent: Sunday, July 05, 2009 12:13 AM > > > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Trying my hand at > > > making a paste food > > > > > > > > > > Okay the stinky goo is in the fridge for several > > > hours... The only > > > > > thing big > > > > > enough to put it in so it would come out somewhat > > > thin was a big > > > > > baking pan > > > > > so I lined it with tin foil to help with easy > > > removal ;) I think I > > > > > will cut > > > > > it into smaller portions that fit into ziplock > > > bags and freeze them that > > > > > way, any suggestions from anyone that is really > > > easy? I could save > > > > my old > > > > > brine shrimp plastic containers and do something > > > like a tiny ice > > > > cube tray > > > > > with them, LOL. This would be the next time > > > around of course ;) > > > > > > > > > > Amber > > > > > > > > > > Amber Berglund wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > So I mixed together a bunch of frozen shrimp > > > (mostly shrimp about half > > > > > > the blender full, and they were berried > > > jumbo shrimp), I also added a > > > > > > few whole herring, some old flake food, some > > > omega fish oil that I > > > > feed > > > > > > the dog a little bit of, some ground fennel, > > > some brewer's yeast, and > > > > > > some garlic (I went mostly by a recipe > > > online but couldn't find liquid > > > > > > vitamin's). > > > > > > I will let you guys know how it goes after I > > > do the who gelatin > > > > process > > > > > > ;) LOL > > > > > > So far all I can smell is shrimp, I think > > > I'm wearing some or > > > > something, > > > > > > or it's permanently stuck in my nose hairs > > > ;) LOL > > > > > > > > > > > > Amber > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ------------------------------------ > > > > > > > > > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it > > > when replying, > > > > Thank You. > > > > > > > > ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> > > > ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> > > > > > PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT > > > that is NOT > > > > important to > > > > > the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the > > > original message MODIFY the > > > > > SUBJECT > > > > > LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old > > > subject)" <- > > > > > > > > <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. > > > , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. > > > > > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this > > > matter. > > > > > > > > > > If you do not want all of the groups emails, > > > instead of > > > > unsubscribing, you > > > > > can change your delivery option by clicking on > > > "Edit My Membership" > > > > on the > > > > > home page. > > > > > > > > > > Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:aquaticlife-digest%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:aquaticlife-digest%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > <mailto:aquaticlife-digest%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > > <mailto:aquaticlife-digest%40yahoogroups.com> to > > > receive the digest, > > > > which > > > > > includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single > > > email > > > > > > > > > > Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:aquaticlife-nomail%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:aquaticlife-nomail%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > <mailto:aquaticlife-nomail%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > > <mailto:aquaticlife-nomail%40yahoogroups.com> for the > > > No E-Mail option > > > > > where > > > > > you will still be able to read messages on the > > > group and post replies. > > > > > > > > > > Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:aquaticlife-normal%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:aquaticlife-normal%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > <mailto:aquaticlife-normal%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > > <mailto:aquaticlife-normal%40yahoogroups.com> to > > > receive individual > > > > > e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ------------------------------------ > > > > > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when > > > replying, Thank You. > > > ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> > > > ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> > > > PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is > > > NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of > > > the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new > > > subject (was re: old subject)" <- > > > <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. > > > , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. > > > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. > > > > > > If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of > > > unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by > > > clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the home page. > > > > > > Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:aquaticlife-digest%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:aquaticlife-digest%40yahoogroups.com> > > > to receive the digest, which includes up to 25 posts at a > > > time in a single email > > > > > > Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:aquaticlife-nomail%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:aquaticlife-nomail%40yahoogroups.com> > > > for the No E-Mail option where you will still be able to > > > read messages on the group and post replies. > > > > > > Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:aquaticlife-normal%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:aquaticlife-normal%40yahoogroups.com> > > > to receive individual e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > > > > mailto:AquaticLife-fullfeatured@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife-fullfeatured%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife-fullfeatured%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 41740	From: Menagerie_Manager	Date: 7/5/2009
Subject: OT- kitten update

We got poop! About an hour ago, with the help of some oil placed you know where after the last two feedings, the little tyke was able to push out a small firm turd. I'll continue the formula at half strength and the oil enemas until the bowel movements get more normal. BTW, don't try giving enemas to a tiny kitten yourself unless you have the training and the right items to do it without injuring the kitten. I just happen to keep small syringes handy for giving meds to my rats or I wouldn't have done it myself. Thanks, all, for putting up with kitten talk in a fish group! DebR and the Three Goldfish (CB, Lucille, and Raven) And one "relieved" kitten.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 41741	From: Raymond Wetzel	Date: 7/5/2009
Subject: Re: Everything is spawning I swear! LOL

Lenny, The variant name you've added sounds pretty fancy -- nice ring to it, even though I don't see the connection. The name "Leporidae" refers to the family of rabbits and hares. I feel like I'm missing something in this thread, since when I scroll down through the messages I see nothing that would indicate any similarity between Amber's Angels and rabbits, unless you mean her fish breed like rabbits <G>. Or, did you mean "Leopardae", sort of like a reference to a certain color morph having spots (although her fish don't have spots). So, I'm stumped, and a Veiltail variety has nothing to do with the Leopard color morph. You got me on that one, how did you arrived at that name? Ray --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@...> wrote: > > Yeah. I saw after that message that she uploaded several more pics. The > "Female Angelfish" pic is now number 7 in the album (when sorted to last > modified). > > So Ray, what did you think of the scientific name change variant that I > added to her fish? > > SNIP FROM THE BELOW THREAD- > > > > I think your Angelfish are a slightly different variant than the > > > > normal species... maybe: > > > > > > > > Pterophyllum scalare var. leporidae > > <G> > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right > side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) > > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On > Behalf Of Raymond Wetzel > Sent: Sunday, July 05, 2009 1:47 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Everything is spawning I swear! LOL > > The photo is there. I couldn't find it using the first link supplied, so > instead of trying the revised link, I went directly to the Photo selection > on the group homepage's menu and replied to it at 7:23 AM. Where have you > been all this while <G>? Ray > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@> > wrote: > > > > Ahhhh.. I guess it would have been easier to turn my head instead of > > rotating my monitor. > > > > Just kidding. I still haven't been able to view the pic. > > > > The picture still isn't showing up (and it's not in the pending photos > > either), unless I'm missing it. I sorted your album to last modified > > and the most recent pic in the album is P1030847 but it's a full tank > > shot.. or maybe one end of a tank but I don't see an Angelfish. > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles > > referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically > > under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] > > On Behalf Of Amber Berglund > > Sent: Sunday, July 05, 2009 4:09 AM > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Everything is spawning I swear! LOL > > > > Okay I just uploaded a correctly rotated photo with just a contrast > > touch up, now you won't have to turn your head to look at her ;) LOL. > > > > Amber > > > > Amber Berglund wrote: > > > > > > > > > Did you check out my new photo of my female? She's very pretty I > > > think she's what's called a veil tail? Maybe Ray can tell me for > > > sure, I like her though. > > > Just posted the photo to my photo album tonight. > > > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife/photos/album/243006836/pic > > > /4 > > > 84754961/view?picmode=&mode=tn&order=ordinal&start=41&count=20&dir=a > > > sc > > > <http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife/photos/album/243006836/pi > > > c/ > > > 484754961/view?picmode=&mode=tn&order=ordinal&start=41&count=20&dir= > > > as > > > c> And silly me I forgot to rotate it, LOL, I'll get a rotated > > > c> picture > > > up soon ;) > > > > > > Amber > > > > > > Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > I think your Angelfish are a slightly different variant than the > > > > normal species... maybe: > > > > > > > > Pterophyllum scalare leporidae > > > > > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>> > > > > (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the > > > > right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by > > > > Year, > > > Month) > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On Behalf Of Amber > > > > Berglund > > > > Sent: Saturday, July 04, 2009 11:01 PM > > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > Subject: [AquaticLife] Everything is spawning I swear! LOL > > > > > > > > Okay so the Angel's got used to their environment and apparently > > > > feel quite safe, unless I stick my face too close to the tank then > > > > they try to scare me off ;) Good thing I did all the planting > > > > before this ;) I would have > > > been > > > > dodging Angel's just to plant the plants in the tank ;) I figure > > > > all the hornwort makes them feel more secure too. > > > > And of course, out of all the slate I put in the tank for them, > > > > where do they lay the eggs? On the filter intake.... LOL. > > > > > > > > Amber >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 41742	From: Wendie	Date: 7/5/2009
Subject: Re: OT- kitten update

Just circle the anal area with a warm wet towel or your finger. That usually works. Wendie ----- Original Message ----- From: Menagerie_Manager To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Sunday, July 05, 2009 5:41 PM Subject: [AquaticLife] OT- kitten update We got poop! About an hour ago, with the help of some oil placed you know where after the last two feedings, the little tyke was able to push out a small firm turd. I'll continue the formula at half strength and the oil enemas until the bowel movements get more normal. BTW, don't try giving enemas to a tiny kitten yourself unless you have the training and the right items to do it without injuring the kitten. I just happen to keep small syringes handy for giving meds to my rats or I wouldn't have done it myself. Thanks, all, for putting up with kitten talk in a fish group! DebR and the Three Goldfish (CB, Lucille, and Raven) And one "relieved" kitten. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 41743	From: Raymond Wetzel	Date: 7/5/2009
Subject: Re: Everything is spawning I swear! LOL

Yes, it is a wild tpe -- Silver, with the normal number of black vertical bars. Ray --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, Amber Berglund <amber@...> wrote: > > Yeah I know, where have you been? LOL. > He said it was a veiltail just like I thought she was, but I don't know > anything else, I thought she was a wild type. > > Amber > > Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > > > > > > Yeah. I saw after that message that she uploaded several more pics. The > > "Female Angelfish" pic is now number 7 in the album (when sorted to last > > modified). > > > > So Ray, what did you think of the scientific name change variant that I > > added to her fish? > > > > SNIP FROM THE BELOW THREAD- > > > > > I think your Angelfish are a slightly different variant than the > > > > > normal species... maybe: > > > > > > > > > > Pterophyllum scalare var. leporidae > > > > <G> > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right > > side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On > > Behalf Of Raymond Wetzel > > Sent: Sunday, July 05, 2009 1:47 PM > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Everything is spawning I swear! LOL > > > > The photo is there. I couldn't find it using the first link supplied, so > > instead of trying the revised link, I went directly to the Photo selection > > on the group homepage's menu and replied to it at 7:23 AM. Where have you > > been all this while <G>? Ray > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>, "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" > > <GoldLenny@> > > wrote: > > > > > > Ahhhh.. I guess it would have been easier to turn my head instead of > > > rotating my monitor. > > > > > > Just kidding. I still haven't been able to view the pic. > > > > > > The picture still isn't showing up (and it's not in the pending photos > > > either), unless I'm missing it. I sorted your album to last modified > > > and the most recent pic in the album is P1030847 but it's a full tank > > > shot.. or maybe one end of a tank but I don't see an Angelfish. > > > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> (Links to any articles > > > referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically > > > under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) > > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] > > > On Behalf Of Amber Berglund > > > Sent: Sunday, July 05, 2009 4:09 AM > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Everything is spawning I swear! LOL > > > > > > Okay I just uploaded a correctly rotated photo with just a contrast > > > touch up, now you won't have to turn your head to look at her ;) LOL. > > > > > > Amber > > > > > > Amber Berglund wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > Did you check out my new photo of my female? She's very pretty I > > > > think she's what's called a veil tail? Maybe Ray can tell me for > > > > sure, I like her though. > > > > Just posted the photo to my photo album tonight. > > > > > > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife/photos/album/243006836/pic > > <http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife/photos/album/243006836/pic> > > > > /4 > > > > 84754961/view?picmode=&mode=tn&order=ordinal&start=41&count=20&dir=a > > > > sc > > > > > > <http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife/photos/album/243006836/pi > > <http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife/photos/album/243006836/pi> > > > > c/ > > > > 484754961/view?picmode=&mode=tn&order=ordinal&start=41&count=20&dir= > > > > as > > > > c> And silly me I forgot to rotate it, LOL, I'll get a rotated > > > > c> picture > > > > up soon ;) > > > > > > > > Amber > > > > > > > > Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I think your Angelfish are a slightly different variant than the > > > > > normal species... maybe: > > > > > > > > > > Pterophyllum scalare leporidae > > > > > > > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > > > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>> > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>>> > > > > > (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the > > > > > right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by > > > > > Year, > > > > Month) > > > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On Behalf Of Amber > > > > > Berglund > > > > > Sent: Saturday, July 04, 2009 11:01 PM > > > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > Subject: [AquaticLife] Everything is spawning I swear! LOL > > > > > > > > > > Okay so the Angel's got used to their environment and apparently > > > > > feel quite safe, unless I stick my face too close to the tank then > > > > > they try to scare me off ;) Good thing I did all the planting > > > > > before this ;) I would have > > > > been > > > > > dodging Angel's just to plant the plants in the tank ;) I figure > > > > > all the hornwort makes them feel more secure too. > > > > > And of course, out of all the slate I put in the tank for them, > > > > > where do they lay the eggs? On the filter intake.... LOL. > > > > > > > > > > Amber > > > > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 41744	From: Raymond Wetzel	Date: 7/5/2009
Subject: Re: Everything is spawning I swear! LOL

There are people who will custom cut spawning slates for Angels. If you need a source for longer slates, let me know. I'll see if I can dig up the info for someone I used to make me a bunch a couple of years ago, hoping that they still make them. Ray --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, Amber Berglund <amber@...> wrote: > > I covered the end of the intake tube in several layers of nettting (that > you get from a hardware store), I don't know how small it needs to be > but it's probably not small enough to protect the fry from being sucked up. > I can float the inserts in the filter in the tank to help keep the > bacteria alive, or I could put them back into another tank too. > I had slate leaning up against next to both sides of the intake filter > hoping they might use them, I didn't think to lean the largest one right > up against the intake tube, I thought it would block the flow too much. > Next time I'll try adding more slate to the tank, I had 2 medium sized > pieces but I have more in my 125 gallon tank too, and plenty outside, LOL. > > Amber > > Raymond Wetzel wrote: > > > > > > Yes, this female is a Veiltail. Since, as I believe your intentions > > are to have the pair raise the fry, you'll not be removing the eggs > > you'll then need to shut off the filter in about 6 days (from the time > > the eggs were laid). As part of the pair's pre-spawning behaviorb of > > cleaning the spawning site, you should not have been surprised that > > the filter intake was chosen -- unless you missed that -- even if > > there were other sites they cleaned prior to selecting this. > > > > Next time, just lean a spawning slate up against the filter intake if > > it reaches, so that the pair has no other choice but to use the slate > > if they insist on using that area. At least this way, you could then > > leave that slate (w/eggs) in position, but leaning up against the > > glass while you re-position the filter, and intake tube -- or move the > > slate a short distance provided they don't get too freaked out by that. > > > > Right now, the eggs will be safe from being drawn up into the filter > > as their adhesion to the tube is fairly strong. After hatching, which > > takes about 3 days, this adhesion is still fairly strong, but lessens > > with each proceeding day towards the free-swimming stage (takes > > another 3 1/2 to usually closer to 4 days). You'll need to shut the > > filter down (or remove the intake tube from it, moving it a short > > distance) early on the 3rd day to prevent the now less-adhesive > > wrigglers from being drawn up into the filter. As a reminder, complete > > shut down of the filter will kill off your nitrifying bacteria unless > > you supply it with an airstone. As you can see, it would have been so > > much less complicated to have them spawn on a slate. > > > > Some other early Angelfish breeders also used 1/2" diameter glass > > tubing (then obtained from a neon sign shop). Rigid plastic tubing may > > also be used. This is either filled with green sand and capped off, or > > painted green inside then filled with plain sand. Angels prefer using > > such tubes, simulating natural reeds, even before using slates -- but > > it's usually best to supply them with several, as large spawns won't > > fit on one such site. As they appear "solid" rather than clear, they'd > > much prefer to use them before filter intakes too. Ray > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>, Amber Berglund <amber@> wrote: > > > > > > Okay I just uploaded a correctly rotated photo with just a contrast > > > touch up, now you won't have to turn your head to look at her ;) LOL. > > > > > > Amber > > > > > > Amber Berglund wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > Did you check out my new photo of my female? She's very pretty I think > > > > she's what's called a veil tail? Maybe Ray can tell me for sure, I > > like > > > > her though. > > > > Just posted the photo to my photo album tonight. > > > > > > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife/photos/album/243006836/pic/484754961/view?picmode=&mode=tn&order=ordinal&start=41&count=20&dir=asc > > <http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife/photos/album/243006836/pic/484754961/view?picmode=&mode=tn&order=ordinal&start=41&count=20&dir=asc> > > > > > > > > <http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife/photos/album/243006836/pic/484754961/view?picmode=&mode=tn&order=ordinal&start=41&count=20&dir=asc > > <http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife/photos/album/243006836/pic/484754961/view?picmode=&mode=tn&order=ordinal&start=41&count=20&dir=asc>> > > > > And silly me I forgot to rotate it, LOL, I'll get a rotated picture up > > > > soon ;) > > > > > > > > Amber > > > > > > > > Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I think your Angelfish are a slightly different variant than the > > normal > > > > > species... maybe: > > > > > > > > > > Pterophyllum scalare leporidae > > > > > > > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > > > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>> > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>>> > > > > > (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on > > the right > > > > > side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, > > > > Month) > > > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On > > > > > Behalf Of Amber Berglund > > > > > Sent: Saturday, July 04, 2009 11:01 PM > > > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > Subject: [AquaticLife] Everything is spawning I swear! LOL > > > > > > > > > > Okay so the Angel's got used to their environment and apparently > > feel > > > > > quite > > > > > safe, unless I stick my face too close to the tank then they try to > > > > > scare me > > > > > off ;) Good thing I did all the planting before this ;) I would > > have > > > > been > > > > > dodging Angel's just to plant the plants in the tank ;) I figure > > all the > > > > > hornwort makes them feel more secure too. > > > > > And of course, out of all the slate I put in the tank for them, > > where do > > > > > they lay the eggs? On the filter intake.... LOL. > > > > > > > > > > Amber > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 41745	From: Menagerie_Manager	Date: 7/5/2009
Subject: Re: OT- kitten update

Been doing that before and after every feeding. He managed a big bowel movement after his last feeding, so I think the crisis is over. I think he was slightly dehydrated when I found him on Friday. I should have been giving him a more watered down formula until I knew he was stable. Thanks, all for your help! DebR and the Three Goldfish (CB, Lucille, and Raven) ----- Original Message ----- From: "Wendie" <wendieo@...> Just circle the anal area with a warm wet towel or your finger. That usually works. Wendie ----- Original Message ----- From: Menagerie_Manager We got poop! About an hour ago, with the help of some oil placed you know where after the last two feedings, the little tyke was able to push out a small firm turd. I'll continue the formula at half strength and the oil enemas until the bowel movements get more normal. BTW, don't try giving enemas to a tiny kitten yourself unless you have the training and the right items to do it without injuring the kitten. I just happen to keep small syringes handy for giving meds to my rats or I wouldn't have done it myself. Thanks, all, for putting up with kitten talk in a fish group! DebR and the Three Goldfish (CB, Lucille, and Raven) And one "relieved" kitten.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 41746	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 7/5/2009
Subject: Re: Everything is spawning I swear! LOL

I have some tallish pieces of slate that I can put in the tank and surround the intake filter so hopefully they use the slate instead ;) They have already cleared all the eggs, not sure why or what spooked them since the tank is empty but I'm sure they will get it right soon enough. I was going to take this opportunity to move the slate. Amber Raymond Wetzel wrote: > > > There are people who will custom cut spawning slates for Angels. If > you need a source for longer slates, let me know. I'll see if I can > dig up the info for someone I used to make me a bunch a couple of > years ago, hoping that they still make them. Ray > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>, Amber Berglund <amber@...> wrote: > > > > I covered the end of the intake tube in several layers of nettting > (that > > you get from a hardware store), I don't know how small it needs to be > > but it's probably not small enough to protect the fry from being > sucked up. > > I can float the inserts in the filter in the tank to help keep the > > bacteria alive, or I could put them back into another tank too. > > I had slate leaning up against next to both sides of the intake filter > > hoping they might use them, I didn't think to lean the largest one > right > > up against the intake tube, I thought it would block the flow too much. > > Next time I'll try adding more slate to the tank, I had 2 medium sized > > pieces but I have more in my 125 gallon tank too, and plenty > outside, LOL. > > > > Amber > > > > Raymond Wetzel wrote: > > > > > > > > > Yes, this female is a Veiltail. Since, as I believe your intentions > > > are to have the pair raise the fry, you'll not be removing the eggs > > > you'll then need to shut off the filter in about 6 days (from the > time > > > the eggs were laid). As part of the pair's pre-spawning behaviorb of > > > cleaning the spawning site, you should not have been surprised that > > > the filter intake was chosen -- unless you missed that -- even if > > > there were other sites they cleaned prior to selecting this. > > > > > > Next time, just lean a spawning slate up against the filter intake if > > > it reaches, so that the pair has no other choice but to use the slate > > > if they insist on using that area. At least this way, you could then > > > leave that slate (w/eggs) in position, but leaning up against the > > > glass while you re-position the filter, and intake tube -- or move > the > > > slate a short distance provided they don't get too freaked out by > that. > > > > > > Right now, the eggs will be safe from being drawn up into the filter > > > as their adhesion to the tube is fairly strong. After hatching, which > > > takes about 3 days, this adhesion is still fairly strong, but lessens > > > with each proceeding day towards the free-swimming stage (takes > > > another 3 1/2 to usually closer to 4 days). You'll need to shut the > > > filter down (or remove the intake tube from it, moving it a short > > > distance) early on the 3rd day to prevent the now less-adhesive > > > wrigglers from being drawn up into the filter. As a reminder, > complete > > > shut down of the filter will kill off your nitrifying bacteria unless > > > you supply it with an airstone. As you can see, it would have been so > > > much less complicated to have them spawn on a slate. > > > > > > Some other early Angelfish breeders also used 1/2" diameter glass > > > tubing (then obtained from a neon sign shop). Rigid plastic tubing > may > > > also be used. This is either filled with green sand and capped > off, or > > > painted green inside then filled with plain sand. Angels prefer using > > > such tubes, simulating natural reeds, even before using slates -- but > > > it's usually best to supply them with several, as large spawns won't > > > fit on one such site. As they appear "solid" rather than clear, > they'd > > > much prefer to use them before filter intakes too. Ray > > > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>, Amber Berglund <amber@> wrote: > > > > > > > > Okay I just uploaded a correctly rotated photo with just a contrast > > > > touch up, now you won't have to turn your head to look at her ;) > LOL. > > > > > > > > Amber > > > > > > > > Amber Berglund wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Did you check out my new photo of my female? She's very pretty > I think > > > > > she's what's called a veil tail? Maybe Ray can tell me for > sure, I > > > like > > > > > her though. > > > > > Just posted the photo to my photo album tonight. > > > > > > > > > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife/photos/album/243006836/pic/484754961/view?picmode=&mode=tn&order=ordinal&start=41&count=20&dir=asc > <http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife/photos/album/243006836/pic/484754961/view?picmode=&mode=tn&order=ordinal&start=41&count=20&dir=asc> > > > > > <http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife/photos/album/243006836/pic/484754961/view?picmode=&mode=tn&order=ordinal&start=41&count=20&dir=asc > <http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife/photos/album/243006836/pic/484754961/view?picmode=&mode=tn&order=ordinal&start=41&count=20&dir=asc>> > > > > > > > > > > > > > <http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife/photos/album/243006836/pic/484754961/view?picmode=&mode=tn&order=ordinal&start=41&count=20&dir=asc > <http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife/photos/album/243006836/pic/484754961/view?picmode=&mode=tn&order=ordinal&start=41&count=20&dir=asc> > > > > > <http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife/photos/album/243006836/pic/484754961/view?picmode=&mode=tn&order=ordinal&start=41&count=20&dir=asc > <http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife/photos/album/243006836/pic/484754961/view?picmode=&mode=tn&order=ordinal&start=41&count=20&dir=asc>>> > > > > > And silly me I forgot to rotate it, LOL, I'll get a rotated > picture up > > > > > soon ;) > > > > > > > > > > Amber > > > > > > > > > > Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I think your Angelfish are a slightly different variant than > the > > > normal > > > > > > species... maybe: > > > > > > > > > > > > Pterophyllum scalare leporidae > > > > > > > > > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > > > > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>> > > > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>>> > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>> > > > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>>>> > > > > > > (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on > > > the right > > > > > > side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by > Year, > > > > > Month) > > > > > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > > > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On > > > > > > Behalf Of Amber Berglund > > > > > > Sent: Saturday, July 04, 2009 11:01 PM > > > > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > Subject: [AquaticLife] Everything is spawning I swear! LOL > > > > > > > > > > > > Okay so the Angel's got used to their environment and > apparently > > > feel > > > > > > quite > > > > > > safe, unless I stick my face too close to the tank then they > try to > > > > > > scare me > > > > > > off ;) Good thing I did all the planting before this ;) I would > > > have > > > > > been > > > > > > dodging Angel's just to plant the plants in the tank ;) I > figure > > > all the > > > > > > hornwort makes them feel more secure too. > > > > > > And of course, out of all the slate I put in the tank for them, > > > where do > > > > > > they lay the eggs? On the filter intake.... LOL. > > > > > > > > > > > > Amber > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 41747	From: toddswoman496861@aim.com	Date: 7/5/2009
Subject: Re: OT- kitten update

some of it may have been he had an empty system and needed time to fill up too Kate Dale -----Original Message----- From: Menagerie_Manager <menagerie_manager@...> To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Sun, Jul 5, 2009 9:02 pm Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] OT- kitten update Been doing that before and after every feeding. He managed a big bowel movement after his last feeding, so I think the crisis is over. I think he was slightly dehydrated when I found him on Friday. I should have been giving him a more watered down formula until I knew he was stable. Thanks, all for your help! DebR and the Three Goldfish (CB, Lucille, and Raven) ----- Original Message ----- From: "Wendie" <wendieo@...> Just circle the anal area with a warm wet towel or your finger. That usually works. Wendie ----- Original Message ----- From: Menagerie_Manager We got poop! About an hour ago, with the help of some oil placed you know where after the last two feedings, the little tyke was able to push out a small firm turd. I'll continue the formula at half strength and the oil enemas until the bowel movements get more normal. BTW, don't try giving enemas to a tiny kitten yourself unless you have the training and the right items to do it without injuring the kitten. I just happen to keep small syringes handy for giving meds to my rats or I wouldn't have done it myself . Thanks, all, for putting up with kitten talk in a fish group! DebR and the Three Goldfish (CB, Lucille, and Raven) And one "relieved" kitten. ------------------------------------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the home page. Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com to receive the digest, which includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com for the No E-Mail option where you will still be able to read messages on the group and post replies. Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com to receive individual e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 41748	From: Menagerie_Manager	Date: 7/5/2009
Subject: Re: OT- kitten update

Empty intestines is what I thought for the first 24 hrs, but then he was starting to bloat and I knew it wasn't from air in the stomach, because he was still feeding and burping. It was going to be a vet trip if he hadn't done anything by morning. I googled and found a couple of reputable websites that warned about the various things that can cause blockage and I've seen bloat progress in other rescue animals that I've worked on. I wasn't about to wait any longer. Again, thanks, everyone, for your help! DebR and the Three Goldfish (CB, Lucille, and Raven) And the Li'l Tyke, et al ----- Original Message ----- From: <toddswoman496861@...> some of it may have been he had an empty system and needed time to fill up too Kate Dale -----Original Message----- From: Menagerie_Manager <menagerie_manager@...> Been doing that before and after every feeding. He managed a big bowel movement after his last feeding, so I think the crisis is over. I think he was slightly dehydrated when I found him on Friday. I should have been giving him a more watered down formula until I knew he was stable. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Wendie" <wendieo@...> Just circle the anal area with a warm wet towel or your finger. That usually works. Wendie ----- Original Message ----- From: Menagerie_Manager We got poop! About an hour ago, with the help of some oil placed you know where after the last two feedings, the little tyke was able to push out a small firm turd. I'll continue the formula at half strength and the oil enemas until the bowel movements get more normal. BTW, don't try giving enemas to a tiny kitten yourself unless you have the training and the right items to do it without injuring the kitten. I just happen to keep small syringes handy for giving meds to my rats or I wouldn't have done it myself

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 41749	From: Lisa	Date: 7/5/2009
Subject: Looking for plants again

Hi all. I was wondering, what's the best kind of live plant to put in my tropical. It only has a gravel substrate. No soil, and an u/g filter. Plus halogen lighting All attempts to sustain plants in the past have failed. Except for my wisteria which overtook the tank, and had to be removed, and the dwarf anubias on driftwood which is the sole surviving live plant left in my tank. I've even used liquid plant fertilizer to no avail. Would they have been iron or calcium deficient? But I want to plant it again. And especially now that I have my blue yabby, I want to provide a regular supply of plant matter for her to eat. As well as a secure place for my albino bn catfish to hide. The plants would have to fit the requirements of low light, and slow to moderate filtration. Mid to foreground placement. And a creeping as apposed to digging root system preferred. Temp range is between 25 – 27* Other tank inhabitants include, 10 cardinal tetras, 5 harlequin rasboras, about 4 female guppies 1 albino bn catfish and 1 Charax distracter and possibly 1 kuhli loach (haven't seen it for ages, don't know if it's still alive) Much thanks in advance Lisa

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 41750	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 7/5/2009
Subject: Re: Looking for plants again

Plants have trouble with the undergravel filters, that's where your problem lies. Try floating plants or plants that attach to objects. Amber Lisa wrote: > > > Hi all. > > I was wondering, what's the best kind of live plant to put in my > tropical. It only has a gravel substrate. No soil, and an u/g filter. > Plus halogen lighting > All attempts to sustain plants in the past have failed. Except for my > wisteria which overtook the tank, and had to be removed, and the dwarf > anubias on driftwood which is the sole surviving live plant left in my > tank. > I've even used liquid plant fertilizer to no avail. > Would they have been iron or calcium deficient? > > But I want to plant it again. And especially now that I have my blue > yabby, I want to provide a regular supply of plant matter for her to eat. > As well as a secure place for my albino bn catfish to hide. > > The plants would have to fit the requirements of low light, and slow > to moderate filtration. > Mid to foreground placement. And a creeping as apposed to digging root > system preferred. > Temp range is between 25 – 27* > > Other tank inhabitants include, > 10 cardinal tetras, > 5 harlequin rasboras, > about 4 female guppies > 1 albino bn catfish > and 1 Charax distracter > and possibly 1 kuhli loach (haven't seen it for ages, don't know if > it's still alive) > > Much thanks in advance > Lisa > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 41751	From: Lisa	Date: 7/5/2009
Subject: Re: Looking for plants again

Hi Amber. I did a bit of research on the net after i'd posted the message to the group. And i was thinking a bit of java ferm on a rock or some wood. And make my tank more 'shallow stream'looking with bits of wood that have attached java moss/fern and some floating plants. But i still need hidy places, so would java moss/fern attach to terracotta pots? plastic ornaments or plastic hollow logs? Lisa --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, Amber Berglund <amber@...> wrote: > > Plants have trouble with the undergravel filters, that's where your > problem lies. Try floating plants or plants that attach to objects. > > Amber >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 41752	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 7/5/2009
Subject: Re: Looking for plants again

I've heard that the more you put on top of your gravel (which is your filter) the more you're going to have to move those ornaments and vacuum under them really well because nothing will filter through the gravel with something setting on top of it. You can attach java moss or java fern to just about anything from what I understand ;) I have java fern windelov stuffed into sea shells ;) Amber Lisa wrote: > > > Hi Amber. > I did a bit of research on the net after i'd posted the message to the > group. > And i was thinking a bit of java ferm on a rock or some wood. And make > my tank more 'shallow stream'looking with bits of wood that have > attached java moss/fern and some floating plants. > > But i still need hidy places, so would java moss/fern attach to > terracotta pots? plastic ornaments or plastic hollow logs? > > Lisa > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>, Amber Berglund <amber@...> wrote: > > > > Plants have trouble with the undergravel filters, that's where your > > problem lies. Try floating plants or plants that attach to objects. > > > > Amber > > > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 41753	From: Lisa	Date: 7/5/2009
Subject: Re: Looking for plants again

Okay, cool, Thanks Amber. Just spoke with my LFS and he only has a little clump that he's put aside for me. But that's all you really need to start a coloney. In the right conditions, it should take off. Lisa --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, Amber Berglund <amber@...> wrote: > > I've heard that the more you put on top of your gravel (which is your > filter) the more you're going to have to move those ornaments and vacuum > under them really well because nothing will filter through the gravel > with something setting on top of it. > You can attach java moss or java fern to just about anything from what I > understand ;) > I have java fern windelov stuffed into sea shells ;) > > Amber >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 41754	From: Raymond Wetzel	Date: 7/6/2009
Subject: Re: Everything is spawning I swear! LOL

I do wish you luck in having your pair raise their fry eventually, but please be advised that they may never get it right, and just be prepared for that outcome. As I've written many times, each individual Angelfish and each pairing of Angelfish may be expected to behave differently within the general confines of Angelfish behavior. Some pairs "get it right" after only 2 or 3 spawnings (some right from the start), while other pair may take 12 or even 20 trials before they finally settle down to raising them. Yet other pairs may never learn how to raise them (or just prefer the taste of caviar over rearing their next generation). And, while some pairs may raise their fry after only a few tries (or even right from the very beginning), these same pairs may sometimes start eating their eggs after 10 or 12 spawns (or even after 30); there's no way to know what to expect from Angel pairs with any given spawning except to expect that they may eat them since they have every opportunity to do so. This same "erratic" behavior may be expected of Discus also, or any other substrate spawning Cichlid that cares for their eggs. The propensity for these fish to devour their progeny is not limited there. They may at any time eat their fry either while as wrigglers, or while they're free-swimming ass long as the opportunity is there. Some of this self-defeating behavior may be due to outside influences, while still other causes for this behavior may be due to either stimuli received from each other of the pair or possibly as inate or even learned responses. A good pair should be appreciated, but steps can be taken to minimize the possibility of this "infanticide" (<G>) in pairs found not quite so good in refraining from eating their eggs, when their environment can be changed to reduce the stimuli that sometimes triggers this behavior. When, after it's seen that regardless of a more favorable environment, that it seems obvious the fish will continue to eat their eggs, there's then no alternative other than to remove the eggs for separate hatching and raising by the hobbyist. Ray --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, Amber Berglund <amber@...> wrote: > > I have some tallish pieces of slate that I can put in the tank and > surround the intake filter so hopefully they use the slate instead ;) > They have already cleared all the eggs, not sure why or what spooked > them since the tank is empty but I'm sure they will get it right soon > enough. I was going to take this opportunity to move the slate. > > Amber > > Raymond Wetzel wrote: > > > > > > There are people who will custom cut spawning slates for Angels. If > > you need a source for longer slates, let me know. I'll see if I can > > dig up the info for someone I used to make me a bunch a couple of > > years ago, hoping that they still make them. Ray > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>, Amber Berglund <amber@> wrote: > > > > > > I covered the end of the intake tube in several layers of nettting > > (that > > > you get from a hardware store), I don't know how small it needs to be > > > but it's probably not small enough to protect the fry from being > > sucked up. > > > I can float the inserts in the filter in the tank to help keep the > > > bacteria alive, or I could put them back into another tank too. > > > I had slate leaning up against next to both sides of the intake filter > > > hoping they might use them, I didn't think to lean the largest one > > right > > > up against the intake tube, I thought it would block the flow too much. > > > Next time I'll try adding more slate to the tank, I had 2 medium sized > > > pieces but I have more in my 125 gallon tank too, and plenty > > outside, LOL. > > > > > > Amber > > > > > > Raymond Wetzel wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > Yes, this female is a Veiltail. Since, as I believe your intentions > > > > are to have the pair raise the fry, you'll not be removing the eggs > > > > you'll then need to shut off the filter in about 6 days (from the > > time > > > > the eggs were laid). As part of the pair's pre-spawning behaviorb of > > > > cleaning the spawning site, you should not have been surprised that > > > > the filter intake was chosen -- unless you missed that -- even if > > > > there were other sites they cleaned prior to selecting this. > > > > > > > > Next time, just lean a spawning slate up against the filter intake if > > > > it reaches, so that the pair has no other choice but to use the slate > > > > if they insist on using that area. At least this way, you could then > > > > leave that slate (w/eggs) in position, but leaning up against the > > > > glass while you re-position the filter, and intake tube -- or move > > the > > > > slate a short distance provided they don't get too freaked out by > > that. > > > > > > > > Right now, the eggs will be safe from being drawn up into the filter > > > > as their adhesion to the tube is fairly strong. After hatching, which > > > > takes about 3 days, this adhesion is still fairly strong, but lessens > > > > with each proceeding day towards the free-swimming stage (takes > > > > another 3 1/2 to usually closer to 4 days). You'll need to shut the > > > > filter down (or remove the intake tube from it, moving it a short > > > > distance) early on the 3rd day to prevent the now less-adhesive > > > > wrigglers from being drawn up into the filter. As a reminder, > > complete > > > > shut down of the filter will kill off your nitrifying bacteria unless > > > > you supply it with an airstone. As you can see, it would have been so > > > > much less complicated to have them spawn on a slate. > > > > > > > > Some other early Angelfish breeders also used 1/2" diameter glass > > > > tubing (then obtained from a neon sign shop). Rigid plastic tubing > > may > > > > also be used. This is either filled with green sand and capped > > off, or > > > > painted green inside then filled with plain sand. Angels prefer using > > > > such tubes, simulating natural reeds, even before using slates -- but > > > > it's usually best to supply them with several, as large spawns won't > > > > fit on one such site. As they appear "solid" rather than clear, > > they'd > > > > much prefer to use them before filter intakes too. Ray > > > > > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>, Amber Berglund <amber@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > Okay I just uploaded a correctly rotated photo with just a contrast > > > > > touch up, now you won't have to turn your head to look at her ;) > > LOL. > > > > > > > > > > Amber > > > > > > > > > > Amber Berglund wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Did you check out my new photo of my female? She's very pretty > > I think > > > > > > she's what's called a veil tail? Maybe Ray can tell me for > > sure, I > > > > like > > > > > > her though. > > > > > > Just posted the photo to my photo album tonight. > > > > > > > > > > > > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife/photos/album/243006836/pic/484754961/view?picmode=&mode=tn&order=ordinal&start=41&count=20&dir=asc > > <http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife/photos/album/243006836/pic/484754961/view?picmode=&mode=tn&order=ordinal&start=41&count=20&dir=asc> > > > > > > > > <http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife/photos/album/243006836/pic/484754961/view?picmode=&mode=tn&order=ordinal&start=41&count=20&dir=asc > > <http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife/photos/album/243006836/pic/484754961/view?picmode=&mode=tn&order=ordinal&start=41&count=20&dir=asc>> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > <http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife/photos/album/243006836/pic/484754961/view?picmode=&mode=tn&order=ordinal&start=41&count=20&dir=asc > > <http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife/photos/album/243006836/pic/484754961/view?picmode=&mode=tn&order=ordinal&start=41&count=20&dir=asc> > > > > > > > > <http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife/photos/album/243006836/pic/484754961/view?picmode=&mode=tn&order=ordinal&start=41&count=20&dir=asc > > <http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife/photos/album/243006836/pic/484754961/view?picmode=&mode=tn&order=ordinal&start=41&count=20&dir=asc>>> > > > > > > And silly me I forgot to rotate it, LOL, I'll get a rotated > > picture up > > > > > > soon ;) > > > > > > > > > > > > Amber > > > > > > > > > > > > Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I think your Angelfish are a slightly different variant than > > the > > > > normal > > > > > > > species... maybe: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Pterophyllum scalare leporidae > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > > > > > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>> > > > > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>>> > > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>> > > > > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>>>> > > > > > > > (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on > > > > the right > > > > > > > side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by > > Year, > > > > > > Month) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > > > > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On > > > > > > > Behalf Of Amber Berglund > > > > > > > Sent: Saturday, July 04, 2009 11:01 PM > > > > > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > Subject: [AquaticLife] Everything is spawning I swear! LOL > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Okay so the Angel's got used to their environment and > > apparently > > > > feel > > > > > > > quite > > > > > > > safe, unless I stick my face too close to the tank then they > > try to > > > > > > > scare me > > > > > > > off ;) Good thing I did all the planting before this ;) I would > > > > have > > > > > > been > > > > > > > dodging Angel's just to plant the plants in the tank ;) I > > figure > > > > all the > > > > > > > hornwort makes them feel more secure too. > > > > > > > And of course, out of all the slate I put in the tank for them, > > > > where do > > > > > > > they lay the eggs? On the filter intake.... LOL. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Amber > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 41755	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 7/6/2009
Subject: Bad computer

I have to resort to reading and replying to my email on my cell phone because my computer has a disk read error. Hubby will fix it later I'm sure after work. Amber [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 41756	From: Byron	Date: 7/6/2009
Subject: Re: Bolivian Ram

As previous responders have noted, these are not appropriate fish for a 10g unless only one is kept. Unless you can move them to larger quarters, I would see if the store will take one (or both if you decide) back. This species is best kept as a single fish unless there is a lot of space. In their natural habitat (the Rio Mamore basin in SA) Mikrogeophagus altispinosa are found as lone individuals and it is believed that apart from spawning periods they live in isolation. Except when spawning, they rarely bother other fish in the aquarium, but as you have found out they are quite territorial with their own kind. I have a single specimen in my 90g with about 100 other small fish (characins, corys) and have never observed any aggression towards the other fish, other than slight annoyance once in a while at the persistence of the corys when tablet food is on the substrate; the Bolivian ram constantly searches the substrate for food. This is certainly a beautiful cichlid. In such a small environment I would not leave two of them together, as it is quite likely that the one that is harassed will be very stressed and sucumb to disease or poor health. --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "footprint145" <footprint145@...> wrote: > > Hi aquarium enthusiast! I am new to the group, but not to the hobby. Started many moons ago w/ typical comm. tank (guppies, mollies, etc.) > I just started a 10G tank and was always interested in the Dwarf Cich. group - particularly RAMS!! I acquired 2 Bol.Rams and hoped to have sexed pair. NO luck! Anyway, the one dominant fish is constantly harassing the other to the point the harassed fish is getting little to eat. Should I be concerned, in such a small tank, or do you think time will weary the KING! > > Thanks, any info would be great! > Allen > > P.S. I now have them bout 3 weeks >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 41757	From: tony.cfield369@btinternet.com	Date: 7/6/2009
Subject: Aquatic zoology

Im starting a 4 year course in September at Hull university studying aquatic zoology can anyone give me advise on some books so i can get a head start?

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 41758	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 7/6/2009
Subject: Re: Everything is spawning I swear! LOL

That's it!!! Because Amber's Angelfish breed like rabbits. LOL Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Raymond Wetzel Sent: Sunday, July 05, 2009 5:50 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Everything is spawning I swear! LOL Lenny, The variant name you've added sounds pretty fancy -- nice ring to it, even though I don't see the connection. The name "Leporidae" refers to the family of rabbits and hares. I feel like I'm missing something in this thread, since when I scroll down through the messages I see nothing that would indicate any similarity between Amber's Angels and rabbits, unless you mean her fish breed like rabbits <G>. Or, did you mean "Leopardae", sort of like a reference to a certain color morph having spots (although her fish don't have spots). So, I'm stumped, and a Veiltail variety has nothing to do with the Leopard color morph. You got me on that one, how did you arrived at that name? Ray --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@...> wrote: > > Yeah. I saw after that message that she uploaded several more pics. > The "Female Angelfish" pic is now number 7 in the album (when sorted > to last modified). > > So Ray, what did you think of the scientific name change variant that > I added to her fish? > > SNIP FROM THE BELOW THREAD- > > > > I think your Angelfish are a slightly different variant than the > > > > normal species... maybe: > > > > > > > > Pterophyllum scalare var. leporidae > > <G> > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles > referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically > under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) > > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] > On Behalf Of Raymond Wetzel > Sent: Sunday, July 05, 2009 1:47 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Everything is spawning I swear! LOL > > The photo is there. I couldn't find it using the first link supplied, > so instead of trying the revised link, I went directly to the Photo > selection on the group homepage's menu and replied to it at 7:23 AM. > Where have you been all this while <G>? Ray > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" > <GoldLenny@> > wrote: > > > > Ahhhh.. I guess it would have been easier to turn my head instead of > > rotating my monitor. > > > > Just kidding. I still haven't been able to view the pic. > > > > The picture still isn't showing up (and it's not in the pending > > photos either), unless I'm missing it. I sorted your album to last > > modified and the most recent pic in the album is P1030847 but it's a > > full tank shot.. or maybe one end of a tank but I don't see an Angelfish. > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles > > referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, > > alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] > > On Behalf Of Amber Berglund > > Sent: Sunday, July 05, 2009 4:09 AM > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Everything is spawning I swear! LOL > > > > Okay I just uploaded a correctly rotated photo with just a contrast > > touch up, now you won't have to turn your head to look at her ;) LOL. > > > > Amber > > > > Amber Berglund wrote: > > > > > > > > > Did you check out my new photo of my female? She's very pretty I > > > think she's what's called a veil tail? Maybe Ray can tell me for > > > sure, I like her though. > > > Just posted the photo to my photo album tonight. > > > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife/photos/album/243006836/p > > > ic > > > /4 > > > 84754961/view?picmode=&mode=tn&order=ordinal&start=41&count=20&dir > > > =a > > > sc > > > <http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife/photos/album/243006836/ > > > pi > > > c/ > > > 484754961/view?picmode=&mode=tn&order=ordinal&start=41&count=20&di > > > r= > > > as > > > c> And silly me I forgot to rotate it, LOL, I'll get a rotated > > > c> picture > > > up soon ;) > > > > > > Amber > > > > > > Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > I think your Angelfish are a slightly different variant than the > > > > normal species... maybe: > > > > > > > > Pterophyllum scalare leporidae > > > > > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>> > > > > (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on > > > > the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under > > > > Archives by Year, > > > Month) > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On Behalf Of Amber > > > > Berglund > > > > Sent: Saturday, July 04, 2009 11:01 PM > > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > Subject: [AquaticLife] Everything is spawning I swear! LOL > > > > > > > > Okay so the Angel's got used to their environment and apparently > > > > feel quite safe, unless I stick my face too close to the tank > > > > then they try to scare me off ;) Good thing I did all the > > > > planting before this ;) I would have > > > been > > > > dodging Angel's just to plant the plants in the tank ;) I figure > > > > all the hornwort makes them feel more secure too. > > > > And of course, out of all the slate I put in the tank for them, > > > > where do they lay the eggs? On the filter intake.... LOL. > > > > > > > > Amber

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 41759	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 7/6/2009
Subject: Re: Everything is spawning I swear! LOL

If they like spawning on reeds or other upright stalks of plants, why not get some 1/2" PVC pipe pieces, paint them greenish colored (with aquarium safe paint like 2-part epoxy paint... or maybe one of them new Krylon plastic paints that bond with the plastic/PVC... but check to make sure others have used this with success first) and stand them up in the back or corners. They would also be easy to remove if you decide to move the eggs to another tank for hatching. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Raymond Wetzel Sent: Sunday, July 05, 2009 7:31 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Everything is spawning I swear! LOL There are people who will custom cut spawning slates for Angels. If you need a source for longer slates, let me know. I'll see if I can dig up the info for someone I used to make me a bunch a couple of years ago, hoping that they still make them. Ray --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, Amber Berglund <amber@...> wrote: > > I covered the end of the intake tube in several layers of nettting > (that you get from a hardware store), I don't know how small it needs > to be but it's probably not small enough to protect the fry from being sucked up. > I can float the inserts in the filter in the tank to help keep the > bacteria alive, or I could put them back into another tank too. > I had slate leaning up against next to both sides of the intake filter > hoping they might use them, I didn't think to lean the largest one > right up against the intake tube, I thought it would block the flow too much. > Next time I'll try adding more slate to the tank, I had 2 medium sized > pieces but I have more in my 125 gallon tank too, and plenty outside, LOL. > > Amber > > Raymond Wetzel wrote: > > > > > > Yes, this female is a Veiltail. Since, as I believe your intentions > > are to have the pair raise the fry, you'll not be removing the eggs > > you'll then need to shut off the filter in about 6 days (from the > > time the eggs were laid). As part of the pair's pre-spawning > > behaviorb of cleaning the spawning site, you should not have been > > surprised that the filter intake was chosen -- unless you missed > > that -- even if there were other sites they cleaned prior to selecting this. > > > > Next time, just lean a spawning slate up against the filter intake > > if it reaches, so that the pair has no other choice but to use the > > slate if they insist on using that area. At least this way, you > > could then leave that slate (w/eggs) in position, but leaning up > > against the glass while you re-position the filter, and intake tube > > -- or move the slate a short distance provided they don't get too freaked out by that. > > > > Right now, the eggs will be safe from being drawn up into the filter > > as their adhesion to the tube is fairly strong. After hatching, > > which takes about 3 days, this adhesion is still fairly strong, but > > lessens with each proceeding day towards the free-swimming stage > > (takes another 3 1/2 to usually closer to 4 days). You'll need to > > shut the filter down (or remove the intake tube from it, moving it a > > short > > distance) early on the 3rd day to prevent the now less-adhesive > > wrigglers from being drawn up into the filter. As a reminder, > > complete shut down of the filter will kill off your nitrifying > > bacteria unless you supply it with an airstone. As you can see, it > > would have been so much less complicated to have them spawn on a slate. > > > > Some other early Angelfish breeders also used 1/2" diameter glass > > tubing (then obtained from a neon sign shop). Rigid plastic tubing > > may also be used. This is either filled with green sand and capped > > off, or painted green inside then filled with plain sand. Angels > > prefer using such tubes, simulating natural reeds, even before using > > slates -- but it's usually best to supply them with several, as > > large spawns won't fit on one such site. As they appear "solid" > > rather than clear, they'd much prefer to use them before filter > > intakes too. Ray > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>, Amber Berglund <amber@> wrote: > > > > > > Okay I just uploaded a correctly rotated photo with just a > > > contrast touch up, now you won't have to turn your head to look at her ;) LOL. > > > > > > Amber > > > > > > Amber Berglund wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > Did you check out my new photo of my female? She's very pretty I > > > > think she's what's called a veil tail? Maybe Ray can tell me for > > > > sure, I > > like > > > > her though. > > > > Just posted the photo to my photo album tonight. > > > > > > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife/photos/album/243006836/pic > > /484754961/view?picmode=&mode=tn&order=ordinal&start=41&count=20&dir > > =asc > > <http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife/photos/album/243006836/pi > > c/484754961/view?picmode=&mode=tn&order=ordinal&start=41&count=20&di > > r=asc> > > > > > > > > <http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife/photos/album/243006836/pi > > c/484754961/view?picmode=&mode=tn&order=ordinal&start=41&count=20&di > > r=asc > > <http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife/photos/album/243006836/pi > > c/484754961/view?picmode=&mode=tn&order=ordinal&start=41&count=20&di > > r=asc>> > > > > And silly me I forgot to rotate it, LOL, I'll get a rotated > > > > picture up soon ;) > > > > > > > > Amber > > > > > > > > Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I think your Angelfish are a slightly different variant than > > > > > the > > normal > > > > > species... maybe: > > > > > > > > > > Pterophyllum scalare leporidae > > > > > > > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > > > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>> > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>>> > > > > > (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on > > the right > > > > > side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by > > > > > Year, > > > > Month) > > > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On Behalf Of Amber > > > > > Berglund > > > > > Sent: Saturday, July 04, 2009 11:01 PM > > > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > Subject: [AquaticLife] Everything is spawning I swear! LOL > > > > > > > > > > Okay so the Angel's got used to their environment and > > > > > apparently > > feel > > > > > quite > > > > > safe, unless I stick my face too close to the tank then they > > > > > try to scare me off ;) Good thing I did all the planting > > > > > before this ;) I would > > have > > > > been > > > > > dodging Angel's just to plant the plants in the tank ;) I > > > > > figure > > all the > > > > > hornwort makes them feel more secure too. > > > > > And of course, out of all the slate I put in the tank for > > > > > them, > > where do > > > > > they lay the eggs? On the filter intake.... LOL. > > > > > > > > > > Amber

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 41760	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 7/6/2009
Subject: Re: Looking for plants again

Or planted in 2" clay pots (or small clear round or square zip-loc type food containers), maybe using gravel on the bottom, then some potting soil, then gravel on top. How deep is the gravel above the UGF plates? You could also "plant" stalks of Anacharis, Hornwort, etc., which do not root so the gravel would really just be holding the stalks in place if it's deep enough.. or you could even mound it a little around the stalks to hold them in place. If you only have a 1/2" gravel bed (which is what I use in my tanks), then containers as mentioned above work best. Depending on your water and it's parameters, it should have enough nutrients in it for easy to grow plants which will be further enhanced by the fish waste. If you give more details about what was happening to the plants as they were dying, that might help identify if it was a particular macronutrient that was missing. Of course, your crawfish may not allow you to plant his side of the tank and might dig up and/or eat any plants you put in his side. See my blog article on "Planted Tank..." for more info on easy to grow, low light plants. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Amber Berglund Sent: Sunday, July 05, 2009 11:28 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Looking for plants again Plants have trouble with the undergravel filters, that's where your problem lies. Try floating plants or plants that attach to objects. Amber Lisa wrote: > > > Hi all. > > I was wondering, what's the best kind of live plant to put in my > tropical. It only has a gravel substrate. No soil, and an u/g filter. > Plus halogen lighting > All attempts to sustain plants in the past have failed. Except for my > wisteria which overtook the tank, and had to be removed, and the dwarf > anubias on driftwood which is the sole surviving live plant left in my > tank. > I've even used liquid plant fertilizer to no avail. > Would they have been iron or calcium deficient? > > But I want to plant it again. And especially now that I have my blue > yabby, I want to provide a regular supply of plant matter for her to eat. > As well as a secure place for my albino bn catfish to hide. > > The plants would have to fit the requirements of low light, and slow > to moderate filtration. > Mid to foreground placement. And a creeping as apposed to digging root > system preferred. > Temp range is between 25 - 27* > > Other tank inhabitants include, > 10 cardinal tetras, > 5 harlequin rasboras, > about 4 female guppies > 1 albino bn catfish > and 1 Charax distracter > and possibly 1 kuhli loach (haven't seen it for ages, don't know if > it's still alive) > > Much thanks in advance > Lisa

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 41761	From: Menagerie_Manager	Date: 7/6/2009
Subject: Re: Aquatic zoology

I think I would go to the college website and see if their bookstore has a list of books required for each course, then get a head start on the first year's books. Gee I wish I'd had this idea back when it would have helped me, lol. DebR and the Three Goldfish (CB, Lucille, and Raven) ----- Original Message ----- From: <tony.cfield369@...> Im starting a 4 year course in September at Hull university studying aquatic zoology can anyone give me advise on some books so i can get a head start?

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 41762	From: Gail	Date: 7/6/2009
Subject: UPDATE 6/6 Why do Algae blooms only occur in my 55 Gallon?

okay, after adding some water sprite and some anacharis, PWCS and limiting how much I keep my lights on... It looks like the Algae Bloom is breaking up and going away. My plants are progressing, I checked some of them yesterday while I was doing my weekly maintenance, and some of the Anacharis and Water sprite are starting to sprout roots. Some of the plants I have put into the substrate, the rest floats. (just waiting for my Blood Parrot to change that again with his redecorating skills) Thanks again for the advice, and so far I have been having much success with the simple plants you all have suggested. thanks! Gail

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 41763	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 7/6/2009
Subject: Re: Everything is spawning I swear! LOL

Well my goal is not to raise their young, my goal was to give them a home to themselves so they would stop picking on all of my other fish, LOL. If I get babies it's just a perk ;) Thanks, Amber Raymond Wetzel wrote: > > > I do wish you luck in having your pair raise their fry eventually, but > please be advised that they may never get it right, and just be > prepared for that outcome. As I've written many times, each individual > Angelfish and each pairing of Angelfish may be expected to behave > differently within the general confines of Angelfish behavior. Some > pairs "get it right" after only 2 or 3 spawnings (some right from the > start), while other pair may take 12 or even 20 trials before they > finally settle down to raising them. Yet other pairs may never learn > how to raise them (or just prefer the taste of caviar over rearing > their next generation). > > And, while some pairs may raise their fry after only a few tries (or > even right from the very beginning), these same pairs may sometimes > start eating their eggs after 10 or 12 spawns (or even after 30); > there's no way to know what to expect from Angel pairs with any given > spawning except to expect that they may eat them since they have every > opportunity to do so. > > This same "erratic" behavior may be expected of Discus also, or any > other substrate spawning Cichlid that cares for their eggs. The > propensity for these fish to devour their progeny is not limited > there. They may at any time eat their fry either while as wrigglers, > or while they're free-swimming ass long as the opportunity is there. > Some of this self-defeating behavior may be due to outside influences, > while still other causes for this behavior may be due to either > stimuli received from each other of the pair or possibly as inate or > even learned responses. > > A good pair should be appreciated, but steps can be taken to minimize > the possibility of this "infanticide" (<G>) in pairs found not quite > so good in refraining from eating their eggs, when their environment > can be changed to reduce the stimuli that sometimes triggers this > behavior. > > When, after it's seen that regardless of a more favorable environment, > that it seems obvious the fish will continue to eat their eggs, > there's then no alternative other than to remove the eggs for separate > hatching and raising by the hobbyist. Ray > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>, Amber Berglund <amber@...> wrote: > > > > I have some tallish pieces of slate that I can put in the tank and > > surround the intake filter so hopefully they use the slate instead ;) > > They have already cleared all the eggs, not sure why or what spooked > > them since the tank is empty but I'm sure they will get it right soon > > enough. I was going to take this opportunity to move the slate. > > > > Amber > > > > Raymond Wetzel wrote: > > > > > > > > > There are people who will custom cut spawning slates for Angels. If > > > you need a source for longer slates, let me know. I'll see if I can > > > dig up the info for someone I used to make me a bunch a couple of > > > years ago, hoping that they still make them. Ray > > > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>, Amber Berglund <amber@> wrote: > > > > > > > > I covered the end of the intake tube in several layers of nettting > > > (that > > > > you get from a hardware store), I don't know how small it needs > to be > > > > but it's probably not small enough to protect the fry from being > > > sucked up. > > > > I can float the inserts in the filter in the tank to help keep the > > > > bacteria alive, or I could put them back into another tank too. > > > > I had slate leaning up against next to both sides of the intake > filter > > > > hoping they might use them, I didn't think to lean the largest one > > > right > > > > up against the intake tube, I thought it would block the flow > too much. > > > > Next time I'll try adding more slate to the tank, I had 2 medium > sized > > > > pieces but I have more in my 125 gallon tank too, and plenty > > > outside, LOL. > > > > > > > > Amber > > > > > > > > Raymond Wetzel wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Yes, this female is a Veiltail. Since, as I believe your > intentions > > > > > are to have the pair raise the fry, you'll not be removing the > eggs > > > > > you'll then need to shut off the filter in about 6 days (from the > > > time > > > > > the eggs were laid). As part of the pair's pre-spawning > behaviorb of > > > > > cleaning the spawning site, you should not have been surprised > that > > > > > the filter intake was chosen -- unless you missed that -- even if > > > > > there were other sites they cleaned prior to selecting this. > > > > > > > > > > Next time, just lean a spawning slate up against the filter > intake if > > > > > it reaches, so that the pair has no other choice but to use > the slate > > > > > if they insist on using that area. At least this way, you > could then > > > > > leave that slate (w/eggs) in position, but leaning up against the > > > > > glass while you re-position the filter, and intake tube -- or > move > > > the > > > > > slate a short distance provided they don't get too freaked out by > > > that. > > > > > > > > > > Right now, the eggs will be safe from being drawn up into the > filter > > > > > as their adhesion to the tube is fairly strong. After > hatching, which > > > > > takes about 3 days, this adhesion is still fairly strong, but > lessens > > > > > with each proceeding day towards the free-swimming stage (takes > > > > > another 3 1/2 to usually closer to 4 days). You'll need to > shut the > > > > > filter down (or remove the intake tube from it, moving it a short > > > > > distance) early on the 3rd day to prevent the now less-adhesive > > > > > wrigglers from being drawn up into the filter. As a reminder, > > > complete > > > > > shut down of the filter will kill off your nitrifying bacteria > unless > > > > > you supply it with an airstone. As you can see, it would have > been so > > > > > much less complicated to have them spawn on a slate. > > > > > > > > > > Some other early Angelfish breeders also used 1/2" diameter glass > > > > > tubing (then obtained from a neon sign shop). Rigid plastic > tubing > > > may > > > > > also be used. This is either filled with green sand and capped > > > off, or > > > > > painted green inside then filled with plain sand. Angels > prefer using > > > > > such tubes, simulating natural reeds, even before using slates > -- but > > > > > it's usually best to supply them with several, as large spawns > won't > > > > > fit on one such site. As they appear "solid" rather than clear, > > > they'd > > > > > much prefer to use them before filter intakes too. Ray > > > > > > > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>, Amber Berglund > <amber@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > Okay I just uploaded a correctly rotated photo with just a > contrast > > > > > > touch up, now you won't have to turn your head to look at > her ;) > > > LOL. > > > > > > > > > > > > Amber > > > > > > > > > > > > Amber Berglund wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Did you check out my new photo of my female? She's very > pretty > > > I think > > > > > > > she's what's called a veil tail? Maybe Ray can tell me for > > > sure, I > > > > > like > > > > > > > her though. > > > > > > > Just posted the photo to my photo album tonight. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife/photos/album/243006836/pic/484754961/view?picmode=&mode=tn&order=ordinal&start=41&count=20&dir=asc > <http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife/photos/album/243006836/pic/484754961/view?picmode=&mode=tn&order=ordinal&start=41&count=20&dir=asc> > > > > > <http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife/photos/album/243006836/pic/484754961/view?picmode=&mode=tn&order=ordinal&start=41&count=20&dir=asc > <http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife/photos/album/243006836/pic/484754961/view?picmode=&mode=tn&order=ordinal&start=41&count=20&dir=asc>> > > > > > > > > > > > > > <http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife/photos/album/243006836/pic/484754961/view?picmode=&mode=tn&order=ordinal&start=41&count=20&dir=asc > <http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife/photos/album/243006836/pic/484754961/view?picmode=&mode=tn&order=ordinal&start=41&count=20&dir=asc> > > > > > <http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife/photos/album/243006836/pic/484754961/view?picmode=&mode=tn&order=ordinal&start=41&count=20&dir=asc > <http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife/photos/album/243006836/pic/484754961/view?picmode=&mode=tn&order=ordinal&start=41&count=20&dir=asc>>> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > <http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife/photos/album/243006836/pic/484754961/view?picmode=&mode=tn&order=ordinal&start=41&count=20&dir=asc > <http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife/photos/album/243006836/pic/484754961/view?picmode=&mode=tn&order=ordinal&start=41&count=20&dir=asc> > > > > > <http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife/photos/album/243006836/pic/484754961/view?picmode=&mode=tn&order=ordinal&start=41&count=20&dir=asc > <http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife/photos/album/243006836/pic/484754961/view?picmode=&mode=tn&order=ordinal&start=41&count=20&dir=asc>> > > > > > > > > > > > > > <http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife/photos/album/243006836/pic/484754961/view?picmode=&mode=tn&order=ordinal&start=41&count=20&dir=asc > <http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife/photos/album/243006836/pic/484754961/view?picmode=&mode=tn&order=ordinal&start=41&count=20&dir=asc> > > > > > <http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife/photos/album/243006836/pic/484754961/view?picmode=&mode=tn&order=ordinal&start=41&count=20&dir=asc > <http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife/photos/album/243006836/pic/484754961/view?picmode=&mode=tn&order=ordinal&start=41&count=20&dir=asc>>>> > > > > > > > And silly me I forgot to rotate it, LOL, I'll get a rotated > > > picture up > > > > > > > soon ;) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Amber > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I think your Angelfish are a slightly different variant > than > > > the > > > > > normal > > > > > > > > species... maybe: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Pterophyllum scalare leporidae > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > > > > > > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>> > > > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>>> > > > > > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>> > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>>>> > > > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>> > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>>> > > > > > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>> > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>>>>> > > > > > > > > (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are > listed on > > > > > the right > > > > > > > > side, alphabetically under Labels and also under > Archives by > > > Year, > > > > > > > Month) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > > > > > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On > > > > > > > > Behalf Of Amber Berglund > > > > > > > > Sent: Saturday, July 04, 2009 11:01 PM > > > > > > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > > Subject: [AquaticLife] Everything is spawning I swear! LOL > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Okay so the Angel's got used to their environment and > > > apparently > > > > > feel > > > > > > > > quite > > > > > > > > safe, unless I stick my face too close to the tank then > they > > > try to > > > > > > > > scare me > > > > > > > > off ;) Good thing I did all the planting before this ;) > I would > > > > > have > > > > > > > been > > > > > > > > dodging Angel's just to plant the plants in the tank ;) I > > > figure > > > > > all the > > > > > > > > hornwort makes them feel more secure too. > > > > > > > > And of course, out of all the slate I put in the tank > for them, > > > > > where do > > > > > > > > they lay the eggs? On the filter intake.... LOL. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Amber > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 41764	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 7/6/2009
Subject: Re: Everything is spawning I swear! LOL

Okay my rabbit breeding Angel's have a piece of slate put over the intake tube now, I put the tallest one there, hopefully they will use it. I move the hornwort over to that side of the tank, I figured because it had higher lighting maybe that spooked them? I wish they would have picked the other side though, LOL. Amber Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > > > If they like spawning on reeds or other upright stalks of plants, why not > get some 1/2" PVC pipe pieces, paint them greenish colored (with aquarium > safe paint like 2-part epoxy paint... or maybe one of them new Krylon > plastic paints that bond with the plastic/PVC... but check to make sure > others have used this with success first) and stand them up in the back or > corners. They would also be easy to remove if you decide to move the eggs > to another tank for hatching. > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right > side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On > Behalf Of Raymond Wetzel > Sent: Sunday, July 05, 2009 7:31 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Everything is spawning I swear! LOL > > There are people who will custom cut spawning slates for Angels. If you > need a source for longer slates, let me know. I'll see if I can dig up the > info for someone I used to make me a bunch a couple of years ago, hoping > that they still make them. Ray > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>, Amber Berglund <amber@...> wrote: > > > > I covered the end of the intake tube in several layers of nettting > > (that you get from a hardware store), I don't know how small it needs > > to be but it's probably not small enough to protect the fry from being > sucked up. > > I can float the inserts in the filter in the tank to help keep the > > bacteria alive, or I could put them back into another tank too. > > I had slate leaning up against next to both sides of the intake filter > > hoping they might use them, I didn't think to lean the largest one > > right up against the intake tube, I thought it would block the flow too > much. > > Next time I'll try adding more slate to the tank, I had 2 medium sized > > pieces but I have more in my 125 gallon tank too, and plenty > outside, LOL. > > > > Amber > > > > Raymond Wetzel wrote: > > > > > > > > > Yes, this female is a Veiltail. Since, as I believe your intentions > > > are to have the pair raise the fry, you'll not be removing the eggs > > > you'll then need to shut off the filter in about 6 days (from the > > > time the eggs were laid). As part of the pair's pre-spawning > > > behaviorb of cleaning the spawning site, you should not have been > > > surprised that the filter intake was chosen -- unless you missed > > > that -- even if there were other sites they cleaned prior to selecting > this. > > > > > > Next time, just lean a spawning slate up against the filter intake > > > if it reaches, so that the pair has no other choice but to use the > > > slate if they insist on using that area. At least this way, you > > > could then leave that slate (w/eggs) in position, but leaning up > > > against the glass while you re-position the filter, and intake tube > > > -- or move the slate a short distance provided they don't get too > freaked out by that. > > > > > > Right now, the eggs will be safe from being drawn up into the filter > > > as their adhesion to the tube is fairly strong. After hatching, > > > which takes about 3 days, this adhesion is still fairly strong, but > > > lessens with each proceeding day towards the free-swimming stage > > > (takes another 3 1/2 to usually closer to 4 days). You'll need to > > > shut the filter down (or remove the intake tube from it, moving it a > > > short > > > distance) early on the 3rd day to prevent the now less-adhesive > > > wrigglers from being drawn up into the filter. As a reminder, > > > complete shut down of the filter will kill off your nitrifying > > > bacteria unless you supply it with an airstone. As you can see, it > > > would have been so much less complicated to have them spawn on a > slate. > > > > > > Some other early Angelfish breeders also used 1/2" diameter glass > > > tubing (then obtained from a neon sign shop). Rigid plastic tubing > > > may also be used. This is either filled with green sand and capped > > > off, or painted green inside then filled with plain sand. Angels > > > prefer using such tubes, simulating natural reeds, even before using > > > slates -- but it's usually best to supply them with several, as > > > large spawns won't fit on one such site. As they appear "solid" > > > rather than clear, they'd much prefer to use them before filter > > > intakes too. Ray > > > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>, Amber Berglund <amber@> wrote: > > > > > > > > Okay I just uploaded a correctly rotated photo with just a > > > > contrast touch up, now you won't have to turn your head to look > at her > ;) LOL. > > > > > > > > Amber > > > > > > > > Amber Berglund wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Did you check out my new photo of my female? She's very pretty I > > > > > think she's what's called a veil tail? Maybe Ray can tell me for > > > > > sure, I > > > like > > > > > her though. > > > > > Just posted the photo to my photo album tonight. > > > > > > > > > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife/photos/album/243006836/pic > <http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife/photos/album/243006836/pic> > > > /484754961/view?picmode=&mode=tn&order=ordinal&start=41&count=20&dir > > > =asc > > > > <http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife/photos/album/243006836/pi > <http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife/photos/album/243006836/pi> > > > c/484754961/view?picmode=&mode=tn&order=ordinal&start=41&count=20&di > > > r=asc> > > > > > > > > > > > > <http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife/photos/album/243006836/pi > <http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife/photos/album/243006836/pi> > > > c/484754961/view?picmode=&mode=tn&order=ordinal&start=41&count=20&di > > > r=asc > > > > <http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife/photos/album/243006836/pi > <http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife/photos/album/243006836/pi> > > > c/484754961/view?picmode=&mode=tn&order=ordinal&start=41&count=20&di > > > r=asc>> > > > > > And silly me I forgot to rotate it, LOL, I'll get a rotated > > > > > picture up soon ;) > > > > > > > > > > Amber > > > > > > > > > > Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I think your Angelfish are a slightly different variant than > > > > > > the > > > normal > > > > > > species... maybe: > > > > > > > > > > > > Pterophyllum scalare leporidae > > > > > > > > > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > > > > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>> > > > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>>> > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>> > > > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>>>> > > > > > > (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on > > > the right > > > > > > side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by > > > > > > Year, > > > > > Month) > > > > > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > > > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On Behalf Of Amber > > > > > > Berglund > > > > > > Sent: Saturday, July 04, 2009 11:01 PM > > > > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > Subject: [AquaticLife] Everything is spawning I swear! LOL > > > > > > > > > > > > Okay so the Angel's got used to their environment and > > > > > > apparently > > > feel > > > > > > quite > > > > > > safe, unless I stick my face too close to the tank then they > > > > > > try to scare me off ;) Good thing I did all the planting > > > > > > before this ;) I would > > > have > > > > > been > > > > > > dodging Angel's just to plant the plants in the tank ;) I > > > > > > figure > > > all the > > > > > > hornwort makes them feel more secure too. > > > > > > And of course, out of all the slate I put in the tank for > > > > > > them, > > > where do > > > > > > they lay the eggs? On the filter intake.... LOL. > > > > > > > > > > > > Amber > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 41765	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 7/6/2009
Subject: Okay so far I've only lost 1 of my new fish

Okay so far only one loss on my fish order, and it was one of the bleeding hearts. I noticed when I was adding them to the tank that one of them seemed a bit sluggish, I figure it's probably that one that I lost. Either way 1 out of 16 fish isn't too bad of a loss ratio. I plan on ordering from the same person again in the future. Oh and the snails will be here tomorrow, I'll be sure to take pictures and show off the cute little guys/gals LOL. Amber

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 41766	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 7/6/2009
Subject: Re: Everything is spawning I swear! LOL

I'm not sure what they like the most, they use the tubes on the intake filters at the very top near the water line, and they've also used the top flat surface of a powerhead, as well as a leaf on an anubias plant (large long leaf). So really they don't seem picky but so far they have not once used any of the slate I have put in the tank, I even have some in the 125 gallon and they never used it either, LOL. Amber Amber Berglund wrote: > > > Okay my rabbit breeding Angel's have a piece of slate put over the > intake tube now, I put the tallest one there, hopefully they will use > it. I move the hornwort over to that side of the tank, I figured because > it had higher lighting maybe that spooked them? I wish they would have > picked the other side though, LOL. > > Amber > > Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > > > > > > If they like spawning on reeds or other upright stalks of plants, > why not > > get some 1/2" PVC pipe pieces, paint them greenish colored (with > aquarium > > safe paint like 2-part epoxy paint... or maybe one of them new Krylon > > plastic paints that bond with the plastic/PVC... but check to make sure > > others have used this with success first) and stand them up in the > back or > > corners. They would also be easy to remove if you decide to move the > eggs > > to another tank for hatching. > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>> > > (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right > > side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, > Month) > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On > > Behalf Of Raymond Wetzel > > Sent: Sunday, July 05, 2009 7:31 PM > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Everything is spawning I swear! LOL > > > > There are people who will custom cut spawning slates for Angels. If you > > need a source for longer slates, let me know. I'll see if I can dig > up the > > info for someone I used to make me a bunch a couple of years ago, hoping > > that they still make them. Ray > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>, Amber Berglund <amber@...> > wrote: > > > > > > I covered the end of the intake tube in several layers of nettting > > > (that you get from a hardware store), I don't know how small it needs > > > to be but it's probably not small enough to protect the fry from being > > sucked up. > > > I can float the inserts in the filter in the tank to help keep the > > > bacteria alive, or I could put them back into another tank too. > > > I had slate leaning up against next to both sides of the intake filter > > > hoping they might use them, I didn't think to lean the largest one > > > right up against the intake tube, I thought it would block the > flow too > > much. > > > Next time I'll try adding more slate to the tank, I had 2 medium sized > > > pieces but I have more in my 125 gallon tank too, and plenty > > outside, LOL. > > > > > > Amber > > > > > > Raymond Wetzel wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > Yes, this female is a Veiltail. Since, as I believe your intentions > > > > are to have the pair raise the fry, you'll not be removing the eggs > > > > you'll then need to shut off the filter in about 6 days (from the > > > > time the eggs were laid). As part of the pair's pre-spawning > > > > behaviorb of cleaning the spawning site, you should not have been > > > > surprised that the filter intake was chosen -- unless you missed > > > > that -- even if there were other sites they cleaned prior to > selecting > > this. > > > > > > > > Next time, just lean a spawning slate up against the filter intake > > > > if it reaches, so that the pair has no other choice but to use the > > > > slate if they insist on using that area. At least this way, you > > > > could then leave that slate (w/eggs) in position, but leaning up > > > > against the glass while you re-position the filter, and intake tube > > > > -- or move the slate a short distance provided they don't get too > > freaked out by that. > > > > > > > > Right now, the eggs will be safe from being drawn up into the filter > > > > as their adhesion to the tube is fairly strong. After hatching, > > > > which takes about 3 days, this adhesion is still fairly strong, but > > > > lessens with each proceeding day towards the free-swimming stage > > > > (takes another 3 1/2 to usually closer to 4 days). You'll need to > > > > shut the filter down (or remove the intake tube from it, moving it a > > > > short > > > > distance) early on the 3rd day to prevent the now less-adhesive > > > > wrigglers from being drawn up into the filter. As a reminder, > > > > complete shut down of the filter will kill off your nitrifying > > > > bacteria unless you supply it with an airstone. As you can see, it > > > > would have been so much less complicated to have them spawn on a > > slate. > > > > > > > > Some other early Angelfish breeders also used 1/2" diameter glass > > > > tubing (then obtained from a neon sign shop). Rigid plastic tubing > > > > may also be used. This is either filled with green sand and capped > > > > off, or painted green inside then filled with plain sand. Angels > > > > prefer using such tubes, simulating natural reeds, even before using > > > > slates -- but it's usually best to supply them with several, as > > > > large spawns won't fit on one such site. As they appear "solid" > > > > rather than clear, they'd much prefer to use them before filter > > > > intakes too. Ray > > > > > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>, Amber Berglund <amber@> > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > Okay I just uploaded a correctly rotated photo with just a > > > > > contrast touch up, now you won't have to turn your head to look > > at her > > ;) LOL. > > > > > > > > > > Amber > > > > > > > > > > Amber Berglund wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Did you check out my new photo of my female? She's very pretty I > > > > > > think she's what's called a veil tail? Maybe Ray can tell me for > > > > > > sure, I > > > > like > > > > > > her though. > > > > > > Just posted the photo to my photo album tonight. > > > > > > > > > > > > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife/photos/album/243006836/pic > <http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife/photos/album/243006836/pic> > > > <http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife/photos/album/243006836/pic > <http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife/photos/album/243006836/pic>> > > > > /484754961/view?picmode=&mode=tn&order=ordinal&start=41&count=20&dir > > > > =asc > > > > > > <http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife/photos/album/243006836/pi > <http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife/photos/album/243006836/pi> > > <http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife/photos/album/243006836/pi > <http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife/photos/album/243006836/pi>> > > > > c/484754961/view?picmode=&mode=tn&order=ordinal&start=41&count=20&di > > > > r=asc> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > <http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife/photos/album/243006836/pi > <http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife/photos/album/243006836/pi> > > <http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife/photos/album/243006836/pi > <http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife/photos/album/243006836/pi>> > > > > c/484754961/view?picmode=&mode=tn&order=ordinal&start=41&count=20&di > > > > r=asc > > > > > > <http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife/photos/album/243006836/pi > <http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife/photos/album/243006836/pi> > > <http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife/photos/album/243006836/pi > <http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife/photos/album/243006836/pi>> > > > > c/484754961/view?picmode=&mode=tn&order=ordinal&start=41&count=20&di > > > > r=asc>> > > > > > > And silly me I forgot to rotate it, LOL, I'll get a rotated > > > > > > picture up soon ;) > > > > > > > > > > > > Amber > > > > > > > > > > > > Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I think your Angelfish are a slightly different variant than > > > > > > > the > > > > normal > > > > > > > species... maybe: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Pterophyllum scalare leporidae > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > > > > > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>> > > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>>> > > > > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>> > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>>>> > > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>> > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>>> > > > > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>> > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>>>>> > > > > > > > (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on > > > > the right > > > > > > > side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by > > > > > > > Year, > > > > > > Month) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > > > > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On Behalf Of Amber > > > > > > > Berglund > > > > > > > Sent: Saturday, July 04, 2009 11:01 PM > > > > > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > Subject: [AquaticLife] Everything is spawning I swear! LOL > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Okay so the Angel's got used to their environment and > > > > > > > apparently > > > > feel > > > > > > > quite > > > > > > > safe, unless I stick my face too close to the tank then they > > > > > > > try to scare me off ;) Good thing I did all the planting > > > > > > > before this ;) I would > > > > have > > > > > > been > > > > > > > dodging Angel's just to plant the plants in the tank ;) I > > > > > > > figure > > > > all the > > > > > > > hornwort makes them feel more secure too. > > > > > > > And of course, out of all the slate I put in the tank for > > > > > > > them, > > > > where do > > > > > > > they lay the eggs? On the filter intake.... LOL. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Amber > > > > > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 41767	From: anallafamily.2001	Date: 7/6/2009
Subject: Help.....Coral vs. live rock?

So I have this 75 gal. tank that i want to set up as saltwater (i do better with saltwater tanks then freshwater)wierd I know? Anyway..I need some pros and cons with corals or live rock I am undecided which to go with. And is it possible to have both in same tank?

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 41768	From: Raymond Wetzel	Date: 7/6/2009
Subject: Re: Everything is spawning I swear! LOL

You keep the aquarium lights on during the spawning, egg tending period? This is a no-no as many (most?) domestic pairs will eat their eggs every time. I guess I didn't expect this practice as I just thought that you probably read my posts on here concerning Angelfish breeding -- silly me, I guess I should never have jumped to that conclusion <G>. Since you really don't intend on breeding them anyway, it really doesn't matter, but just be advised that as long as you keep the tank lights burning while the pair have eggs, or fry (especially wrigglers), the chances are not good that the fish will leave the eggs untouched (uneaten). It's not so much that the glaring lighting spooks them, but the bright light all too well increases the fish's natural inclination to eat, when having to be confronted continously by the stimuli of the eggs looking increasingly like a food source when its lit up so brightly as though in a deli-case. Under such conditions, this stimulus overtakes the fish's reproductive instinct at some point. Subdued lighting will not promote such stimuli and the fish are found to retain their reproductive/protective instincts much more firmly. Ray --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, Amber Berglund <amber@...> wrote: > > Okay my rabbit breeding Angel's have a piece of slate put over the > intake tube now, I put the tallest one there, hopefully they will use > it. I move the hornwort over to that side of the tank, I figured because > it had higher lighting maybe that spooked them? I wish they would have > picked the other side though, LOL. > > Amber > > Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > > > > > > If they like spawning on reeds or other upright stalks of plants, why not > > get some 1/2" PVC pipe pieces, paint them greenish colored (with aquarium > > safe paint like 2-part epoxy paint... or maybe one of them new Krylon > > plastic paints that bond with the plastic/PVC... but check to make sure > > others have used this with success first) and stand them up in the back or > > corners. They would also be easy to remove if you decide to move the eggs > > to another tank for hatching. > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right > > side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On > > Behalf Of Raymond Wetzel > > Sent: Sunday, July 05, 2009 7:31 PM > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Everything is spawning I swear! LOL > > > > There are people who will custom cut spawning slates for Angels. If you > > need a source for longer slates, let me know. I'll see if I can dig up the > > info for someone I used to make me a bunch a couple of years ago, hoping > > that they still make them. Ray > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>, Amber Berglund <amber@> wrote: > > > > > > I covered the end of the intake tube in several layers of nettting > > > (that you get from a hardware store), I don't know how small it needs > > > to be but it's probably not small enough to protect the fry from being > > sucked up. > > > I can float the inserts in the filter in the tank to help keep the > > > bacteria alive, or I could put them back into another tank too. > > > I had slate leaning up against next to both sides of the intake filter > > > hoping they might use them, I didn't think to lean the largest one > > > right up against the intake tube, I thought it would block the flow too > > much. > > > Next time I'll try adding more slate to the tank, I had 2 medium sized > > > pieces but I have more in my 125 gallon tank too, and plenty > > outside, LOL. > > > > > > Amber > > > > > > Raymond Wetzel wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > Yes, this female is a Veiltail. Since, as I believe your intentions > > > > are to have the pair raise the fry, you'll not be removing the eggs > > > > you'll then need to shut off the filter in about 6 days (from the > > > > time the eggs were laid). As part of the pair's pre-spawning > > > > behaviorb of cleaning the spawning site, you should not have been > > > > surprised that the filter intake was chosen -- unless you missed > > > > that -- even if there were other sites they cleaned prior to selecting > > this. > > > > > > > > Next time, just lean a spawning slate up against the filter intake > > > > if it reaches, so that the pair has no other choice but to use the > > > > slate if they insist on using that area. At least this way, you > > > > could then leave that slate (w/eggs) in position, but leaning up > > > > against the glass while you re-position the filter, and intake tube > > > > -- or move the slate a short distance provided they don't get too > > freaked out by that. > > > > > > > > Right now, the eggs will be safe from being drawn up into the filter > > > > as their adhesion to the tube is fairly strong. After hatching, > > > > which takes about 3 days, this adhesion is still fairly strong, but > > > > lessens with each proceeding day towards the free-swimming stage > > > > (takes another 3 1/2 to usually closer to 4 days). You'll need to > > > > shut the filter down (or remove the intake tube from it, moving it a > > > > short > > > > distance) early on the 3rd day to prevent the now less-adhesive > > > > wrigglers from being drawn up into the filter. As a reminder, > > > > complete shut down of the filter will kill off your nitrifying > > > > bacteria unless you supply it with an airstone. As you can see, it > > > > would have been so much less complicated to have them spawn on a > > slate. > > > > > > > > Some other early Angelfish breeders also used 1/2" diameter glass > > > > tubing (then obtained from a neon sign shop). Rigid plastic tubing > > > > may also be used. This is either filled with green sand and capped > > > > off, or painted green inside then filled with plain sand. Angels > > > > prefer using such tubes, simulating natural reeds, even before using > > > > slates -- but it's usually best to supply them with several, as > > > > large spawns won't fit on one such site. As they appear "solid" > > > > rather than clear, they'd much prefer to use them before filter > > > > intakes too. Ray > > > > > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>, Amber Berglund <amber@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > Okay I just uploaded a correctly rotated photo with just a > > > > > contrast touch up, now you won't have to turn your head to look > > at her > > ;) LOL. > > > > > > > > > > Amber > > > > > > > > > > Amber Berglund wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Did you check out my new photo of my female? She's very pretty I > > > > > > think she's what's called a veil tail? Maybe Ray can tell me for > > > > > > sure, I > > > > like > > > > > > her though. > > > > > > Just posted the photo to my photo album tonight. > > > > > > > > > > > > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife/photos/album/243006836/pic > > <http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife/photos/album/243006836/pic> > > > > /484754961/view?picmode=&mode=tn&order=ordinal&start=41&count=20&dir > > > > =asc > > > > > > <http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife/photos/album/243006836/pi > > <http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife/photos/album/243006836/pi> > > > > c/484754961/view?picmode=&mode=tn&order=ordinal&start=41&count=20&di > > > > r=asc> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > <http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife/photos/album/243006836/pi > > <http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife/photos/album/243006836/pi> > > > > c/484754961/view?picmode=&mode=tn&order=ordinal&start=41&count=20&di > > > > r=asc > > > > > > <http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife/photos/album/243006836/pi > > <http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife/photos/album/243006836/pi> > > > > c/484754961/view?picmode=&mode=tn&order=ordinal&start=41&count=20&di > > > > r=asc>> > > > > > > And silly me I forgot to rotate it, LOL, I'll get a rotated > > > > > > picture up soon ;) > > > > > > > > > > > > Amber > > > > > > > > > > > > Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I think your Angelfish are a slightly different variant than > > > > > > > the > > > > normal > > > > > > > species... maybe: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Pterophyllum scalare leporidae > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > > > > > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>> > > > > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>>> > > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>> > > > > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>>>> > > > > > > > (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on > > > > the right > > > > > > > side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by > > > > > > > Year, > > > > > > Month) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > > > > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On Behalf Of Amber > > > > > > > Berglund > > > > > > > Sent: Saturday, July 04, 2009 11:01 PM > > > > > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > Subject: [AquaticLife] Everything is spawning I swear! LOL > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Okay so the Angel's got used to their environment and > > > > > > > apparently > > > > feel > > > > > > > quite > > > > > > > safe, unless I stick my face too close to the tank then they > > > > > > > try to scare me off ;) Good thing I did all the planting > > > > > > > before this ;) I would > > > > have > > > > > > been > > > > > > > dodging Angel's just to plant the plants in the tank ;) I > > > > > > > figure > > > > all the > > > > > > > hornwort makes them feel more secure too. > > > > > > > And of course, out of all the slate I put in the tank for > > > > > > > them, > > > > where do > > > > > > > they lay the eggs? On the filter intake.... LOL. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Amber > > > > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 41769	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 7/6/2009
Subject: Re: Everything is spawning I swear! LOL

Well the problem is that it's a walstad natural planted tank, so I need some lighting for the low light plants (mostly crypts, some java fern windelov's, and one sword plant, a large one), and a lot of duckweed and floating hornwort. I thought the hornwort would subdue the lighting enough, so I need a lot more? LOL. I can set the lighting up to the minimum of 8 hours a day, but not sure how well the plants will do with no added sunlight (walstad tanks are supposed to get more lighting if they don't have added sunlight). I will ask on the "el natural" forums about what other breeders do for their Angel's I know at least one other person on there has a walstad tank for their breeding angel's. Amber Raymond Wetzel wrote: > > > You keep the aquarium lights on during the spawning, egg tending > period? This is a no-no as many (most?) domestic pairs will eat their > eggs every time. I guess I didn't expect this practice as I just > thought that you probably read my posts on here concerning Angelfish > breeding -- silly me, I guess I should never have jumped to that > conclusion <G>. > > Since you really don't intend on breeding them anyway, it really > doesn't matter, but just be advised that as long as you keep the tank > lights burning while the pair have eggs, or fry (especially > wrigglers), the chances are not good that the fish will leave the eggs > untouched (uneaten). It's not so much that the glaring lighting spooks > them, but the bright light all too well increases the fish's natural > inclination to eat, when having to be confronted continously by the > stimuli of the eggs looking increasingly like a food source when its > lit up so brightly as though in a deli-case. Under such conditions, > this stimulus overtakes the fish's reproductive instinct at some > point. Subdued lighting will not promote such stimuli and the fish are > found to retain their reproductive/protective instincts much more > firmly. Ray > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>, Amber Berglund <amber@...> wrote: > > > > Okay my rabbit breeding Angel's have a piece of slate put over the > > intake tube now, I put the tallest one there, hopefully they will use > > it. I move the hornwort over to that side of the tank, I figured > because > > it had higher lighting maybe that spooked them? I wish they would have > > picked the other side though, LOL. > > > > Amber > > > > Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > > > > > > > > > If they like spawning on reeds or other upright stalks of plants, > why not > > > get some 1/2" PVC pipe pieces, paint them greenish colored (with > aquarium > > > safe paint like 2-part epoxy paint... or maybe one of them new Krylon > > > plastic paints that bond with the plastic/PVC... but check to make > sure > > > others have used this with success first) and stand them up in the > back or > > > corners. They would also be easy to remove if you decide to move > the eggs > > > to another tank for hatching. > > > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>> > > > (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the > right > > > side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, > Month) > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On > > > Behalf Of Raymond Wetzel > > > Sent: Sunday, July 05, 2009 7:31 PM > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Everything is spawning I swear! LOL > > > > > > There are people who will custom cut spawning slates for Angels. > If you > > > need a source for longer slates, let me know. I'll see if I can > dig up the > > > info for someone I used to make me a bunch a couple of years ago, > hoping > > > that they still make them. Ray > > > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>, Amber Berglund <amber@> wrote: > > > > > > > > I covered the end of the intake tube in several layers of nettting > > > > (that you get from a hardware store), I don't know how small it > needs > > > > to be but it's probably not small enough to protect the fry from > being > > > sucked up. > > > > I can float the inserts in the filter in the tank to help keep the > > > > bacteria alive, or I could put them back into another tank too. > > > > I had slate leaning up against next to both sides of the intake > filter > > > > hoping they might use them, I didn't think to lean the largest one > > > > right up against the intake tube, I thought it would block the > flow too > > > much. > > > > Next time I'll try adding more slate to the tank, I had 2 medium > sized > > > > pieces but I have more in my 125 gallon tank too, and plenty > > > outside, LOL. > > > > > > > > Amber > > > > > > > > Raymond Wetzel wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Yes, this female is a Veiltail. Since, as I believe your > intentions > > > > > are to have the pair raise the fry, you'll not be removing the > eggs > > > > > you'll then need to shut off the filter in about 6 days (from the > > > > > time the eggs were laid). As part of the pair's pre-spawning > > > > > behaviorb of cleaning the spawning site, you should not have been > > > > > surprised that the filter intake was chosen -- unless you missed > > > > > that -- even if there were other sites they cleaned prior to > selecting > > > this. > > > > > > > > > > Next time, just lean a spawning slate up against the filter intake > > > > > if it reaches, so that the pair has no other choice but to use the > > > > > slate if they insist on using that area. At least this way, you > > > > > could then leave that slate (w/eggs) in position, but leaning up > > > > > against the glass while you re-position the filter, and intake > tube > > > > > -- or move the slate a short distance provided they don't get too > > > freaked out by that. > > > > > > > > > > Right now, the eggs will be safe from being drawn up into the > filter > > > > > as their adhesion to the tube is fairly strong. After hatching, > > > > > which takes about 3 days, this adhesion is still fairly > strong, but > > > > > lessens with each proceeding day towards the free-swimming stage > > > > > (takes another 3 1/2 to usually closer to 4 days). You'll need to > > > > > shut the filter down (or remove the intake tube from it, > moving it a > > > > > short > > > > > distance) early on the 3rd day to prevent the now less-adhesive > > > > > wrigglers from being drawn up into the filter. As a reminder, > > > > > complete shut down of the filter will kill off your nitrifying > > > > > bacteria unless you supply it with an airstone. As you can see, it > > > > > would have been so much less complicated to have them spawn on a > > > slate. > > > > > > > > > > Some other early Angelfish breeders also used 1/2" diameter glass > > > > > tubing (then obtained from a neon sign shop). Rigid plastic tubing > > > > > may also be used. This is either filled with green sand and capped > > > > > off, or painted green inside then filled with plain sand. Angels > > > > > prefer using such tubes, simulating natural reeds, even before > using > > > > > slates -- but it's usually best to supply them with several, as > > > > > large spawns won't fit on one such site. As they appear "solid" > > > > > rather than clear, they'd much prefer to use them before filter > > > > > intakes too. Ray > > > > > > > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>, Amber Berglund > <amber@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > Okay I just uploaded a correctly rotated photo with just a > > > > > > contrast touch up, now you won't have to turn your head to look > > > at her > > > ;) LOL. > > > > > > > > > > > > Amber > > > > > > > > > > > > Amber Berglund wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Did you check out my new photo of my female? She's very > pretty I > > > > > > > think she's what's called a veil tail? Maybe Ray can tell > me for > > > > > > > sure, I > > > > > like > > > > > > > her though. > > > > > > > Just posted the photo to my photo album tonight. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife/photos/album/243006836/pic > <http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife/photos/album/243006836/pic> > > > > <http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife/photos/album/243006836/pic > <http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife/photos/album/243006836/pic>> > > > > > > /484754961/view?picmode=&mode=tn&order=ordinal&start=41&count=20&dir > > > > > =asc > > > > > > > > > <http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife/photos/album/243006836/pi > <http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife/photos/album/243006836/pi> > > > > <http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife/photos/album/243006836/pi > <http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife/photos/album/243006836/pi>> > > > > > > c/484754961/view?picmode=&mode=tn&order=ordinal&start=41&count=20&di > > > > > r=asc> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > <http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife/photos/album/243006836/pi > <http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife/photos/album/243006836/pi> > > > > <http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife/photos/album/243006836/pi > <http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife/photos/album/243006836/pi>> > > > > > > c/484754961/view?picmode=&mode=tn&order=ordinal&start=41&count=20&di > > > > > r=asc > > > > > > > > > <http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife/photos/album/243006836/pi > <http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife/photos/album/243006836/pi> > > > > <http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife/photos/album/243006836/pi > <http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife/photos/album/243006836/pi>> > > > > > > c/484754961/view?picmode=&mode=tn&order=ordinal&start=41&count=20&di > > > > > r=asc>> > > > > > > > And silly me I forgot to rotate it, LOL, I'll get a rotated > > > > > > > picture up soon ;) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Amber > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I think your Angelfish are a slightly different variant than > > > > > > > > the > > > > > normal > > > > > > > > species... maybe: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Pterophyllum scalare leporidae > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > > > > > > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>> > > > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>>> > > > > > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>> > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>>>> > > > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>> > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>>> > > > > > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>> > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>>>>> > > > > > > > > (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are > listed on > > > > > the right > > > > > > > > side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by > > > > > > > > Year, > > > > > > > Month) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > > > > > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On Behalf Of Amber > > > > > > > > Berglund > > > > > > > > Sent: Saturday, July 04, 2009 11:01 PM > > > > > > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > > Subject: [AquaticLife] Everything is spawning I swear! LOL > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Okay so the Angel's got used to their environment and > > > > > > > > apparently > > > > > feel > > > > > > > > quite > > > > > > > > safe, unless I stick my face too close to the tank then they > > > > > > > > try to scare me off ;) Good thing I did all the planting > > > > > > > > before this ;) I would > > > > > have > > > > > > > been > > > > > > > > dodging Angel's just to plant the plants in the tank ;) I > > > > > > > > figure > > > > > all the > > > > > > > > hornwort makes them feel more secure too. > > > > > > > > And of course, out of all the slate I put in the tank for > > > > > > > > them, > > > > > where do > > > > > > > > they lay the eggs? On the filter intake.... LOL. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Amber > > > > > > > > > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 41770	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 7/6/2009
Subject: Re: Everything is spawning I swear! LOL

Oh also, I have a box full of guppy (naja) grass on the way as well, should I bother adding it to the Angel tank? It breaks easily from what I've read, but if I left it floating it might be okay. Amber Amber Berglund wrote: > > > Well the problem is that it's a walstad natural planted tank, so I need > some lighting for the low light plants (mostly crypts, some java fern > windelov's, and one sword plant, a large one), and a lot of duckweed and > floating hornwort. I thought the hornwort would subdue the lighting > enough, so I need a lot more? LOL. > I can set the lighting up to the minimum of 8 hours a day, but not sure > how well the plants will do with no added sunlight (walstad tanks are > supposed to get more lighting if they don't have added sunlight). > I will ask on the "el natural" forums about what other breeders do for > their Angel's I know at least one other person on there has a walstad > tank for their breeding angel's. > > Amber > > Raymond Wetzel wrote: > > > > > > You keep the aquarium lights on during the spawning, egg tending > > period? This is a no-no as many (most?) domestic pairs will eat their > > eggs every time. I guess I didn't expect this practice as I just > > thought that you probably read my posts on here concerning Angelfish > > breeding -- silly me, I guess I should never have jumped to that > > conclusion <G>. > > > > Since you really don't intend on breeding them anyway, it really > > doesn't matter, but just be advised that as long as you keep the tank > > lights burning while the pair have eggs, or fry (especially > > wrigglers), the chances are not good that the fish will leave the eggs > > untouched (uneaten). It's not so much that the glaring lighting spooks > > them, but the bright light all too well increases the fish's natural > > inclination to eat, when having to be confronted continously by the > > stimuli of the eggs looking increasingly like a food source when its > > lit up so brightly as though in a deli-case. Under such conditions, > > this stimulus overtakes the fish's reproductive instinct at some > > point. Subdued lighting will not promote such stimuli and the fish are > > found to retain their reproductive/protective instincts much more > > firmly. Ray > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>, Amber Berglund <amber@...> > wrote: > > > > > > Okay my rabbit breeding Angel's have a piece of slate put over the > > > intake tube now, I put the tallest one there, hopefully they will use > > > it. I move the hornwort over to that side of the tank, I figured > > because > > > it had higher lighting maybe that spooked them? I wish they would have > > > picked the other side though, LOL. > > > > > > Amber > > > > > > Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > If they like spawning on reeds or other upright stalks of plants, > > why not > > > > get some 1/2" PVC pipe pieces, paint them greenish colored (with > > aquarium > > > > safe paint like 2-part epoxy paint... or maybe one of them new > Krylon > > > > plastic paints that bond with the plastic/PVC... but check to make > > sure > > > > others have used this with success first) and stand them up in the > > back or > > > > corners. They would also be easy to remove if you decide to move > > the eggs > > > > to another tank for hatching. > > > > > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>>> > > > > (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the > > right > > > > side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, > > Month) > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On > > > > Behalf Of Raymond Wetzel > > > > Sent: Sunday, July 05, 2009 7:31 PM > > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Everything is spawning I swear! LOL > > > > > > > > There are people who will custom cut spawning slates for Angels. > > If you > > > > need a source for longer slates, let me know. I'll see if I can > > dig up the > > > > info for someone I used to make me a bunch a couple of years ago, > > hoping > > > > that they still make them. Ray > > > > > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>, Amber Berglund <amber@> > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > I covered the end of the intake tube in several layers of nettting > > > > > (that you get from a hardware store), I don't know how small it > > needs > > > > > to be but it's probably not small enough to protect the fry from > > being > > > > sucked up. > > > > > I can float the inserts in the filter in the tank to help keep the > > > > > bacteria alive, or I could put them back into another tank too. > > > > > I had slate leaning up against next to both sides of the intake > > filter > > > > > hoping they might use them, I didn't think to lean the largest one > > > > > right up against the intake tube, I thought it would block the > > flow too > > > > much. > > > > > Next time I'll try adding more slate to the tank, I had 2 medium > > sized > > > > > pieces but I have more in my 125 gallon tank too, and plenty > > > > outside, LOL. > > > > > > > > > > Amber > > > > > > > > > > Raymond Wetzel wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Yes, this female is a Veiltail. Since, as I believe your > > intentions > > > > > > are to have the pair raise the fry, you'll not be removing the > > eggs > > > > > > you'll then need to shut off the filter in about 6 days > (from the > > > > > > time the eggs were laid). As part of the pair's pre-spawning > > > > > > behaviorb of cleaning the spawning site, you should not have > been > > > > > > surprised that the filter intake was chosen -- unless you missed > > > > > > that -- even if there were other sites they cleaned prior to > > selecting > > > > this. > > > > > > > > > > > > Next time, just lean a spawning slate up against the filter > intake > > > > > > if it reaches, so that the pair has no other choice but to > use the > > > > > > slate if they insist on using that area. At least this way, you > > > > > > could then leave that slate (w/eggs) in position, but leaning up > > > > > > against the glass while you re-position the filter, and intake > > tube > > > > > > -- or move the slate a short distance provided they don't > get too > > > > freaked out by that. > > > > > > > > > > > > Right now, the eggs will be safe from being drawn up into the > > filter > > > > > > as their adhesion to the tube is fairly strong. After hatching, > > > > > > which takes about 3 days, this adhesion is still fairly > > strong, but > > > > > > lessens with each proceeding day towards the free-swimming stage > > > > > > (takes another 3 1/2 to usually closer to 4 days). You'll > need to > > > > > > shut the filter down (or remove the intake tube from it, > > moving it a > > > > > > short > > > > > > distance) early on the 3rd day to prevent the now less-adhesive > > > > > > wrigglers from being drawn up into the filter. As a reminder, > > > > > > complete shut down of the filter will kill off your nitrifying > > > > > > bacteria unless you supply it with an airstone. As you can > see, it > > > > > > would have been so much less complicated to have them spawn on a > > > > slate. > > > > > > > > > > > > Some other early Angelfish breeders also used 1/2" diameter > glass > > > > > > tubing (then obtained from a neon sign shop). Rigid plastic > tubing > > > > > > may also be used. This is either filled with green sand and > capped > > > > > > off, or painted green inside then filled with plain sand. Angels > > > > > > prefer using such tubes, simulating natural reeds, even before > > using > > > > > > slates -- but it's usually best to supply them with several, as > > > > > > large spawns won't fit on one such site. As they appear "solid" > > > > > > rather than clear, they'd much prefer to use them before filter > > > > > > intakes too. Ray > > > > > > > > > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>, Amber Berglund > > <amber@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Okay I just uploaded a correctly rotated photo with just a > > > > > > > contrast touch up, now you won't have to turn your head to > look > > > > at her > > > > ;) LOL. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Amber > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Amber Berglund wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Did you check out my new photo of my female? She's very > > pretty I > > > > > > > > think she's what's called a veil tail? Maybe Ray can tell > > me for > > > > > > > > sure, I > > > > > > like > > > > > > > > her though. > > > > > > > > Just posted the photo to my photo album tonight. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife/photos/album/243006836/pic > <http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife/photos/album/243006836/pic> > > > <http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife/photos/album/243006836/pic > <http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife/photos/album/243006836/pic>> > > > > > > > <http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife/photos/album/243006836/pic > <http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife/photos/album/243006836/pic> > > > <http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife/photos/album/243006836/pic > <http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife/photos/album/243006836/pic>>> > > > > > > > > /484754961/view?picmode=&mode=tn&order=ordinal&start=41&count=20&dir > > > > > > =asc > > > > > > > > > > > > <http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife/photos/album/243006836/pi > <http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife/photos/album/243006836/pi> > > <http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife/photos/album/243006836/pi > <http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife/photos/album/243006836/pi>> > > > > > > <http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife/photos/album/243006836/pi > <http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife/photos/album/243006836/pi> > > <http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife/photos/album/243006836/pi > <http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife/photos/album/243006836/pi>>> > > > > > > > > c/484754961/view?picmode=&mode=tn&order=ordinal&start=41&count=20&di > > > > > > r=asc> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > <http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife/photos/album/243006836/pi > <http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife/photos/album/243006836/pi> > > <http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife/photos/album/243006836/pi > <http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife/photos/album/243006836/pi>> > > > > > > <http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife/photos/album/243006836/pi > <http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife/photos/album/243006836/pi> > > <http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife/photos/album/243006836/pi > <http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife/photos/album/243006836/pi>>> > > > > > > > > c/484754961/view?picmode=&mode=tn&order=ordinal&start=41&count=20&di > > > > > > r=asc > > > > > > > > > > > > <http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife/photos/album/243006836/pi > <http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife/photos/album/243006836/pi> > > <http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife/photos/album/243006836/pi > <http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife/photos/album/243006836/pi>> > > > > > > <http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife/photos/album/243006836/pi > <http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife/photos/album/243006836/pi> > > <http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife/photos/album/243006836/pi > <http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife/photos/album/243006836/pi>>> > > > > > > > > c/484754961/view?picmode=&mode=tn&order=ordinal&start=41&count=20&di > > > > > > r=asc>> > > > > > > > > And silly me I forgot to rotate it, LOL, I'll get a rotated > > > > > > > > picture up soon ;) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Amber > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I think your Angelfish are a slightly different > variant than > > > > > > > > > the > > > > > > normal > > > > > > > > > species... maybe: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Pterophyllum scalare leporidae > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > > > > > > > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>> > > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>>> > > > > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>> > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>>>> > > > > > > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>>> > > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>> > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>>>>> > > > > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>> > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>>> > > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>> > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>>>> > > > > > > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>>> > > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>> > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>>>>>> > > > > > > > > > (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are > > listed on > > > > > > the right > > > > > > > > > side, alphabetically under Labels and also under > Archives by > > > > > > > > > Year, > > > > > > > > Month) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > > > > > > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > > > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On Behalf Of Amber > > > > > > > > > Berglund > > > > > > > > > Sent: Saturday, July 04, 2009 11:01 PM > > > > > > > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > > > Subject: [AquaticLife] Everything is spawning I swear! LOL > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Okay so the Angel's got used to their environment and > > > > > > > > > apparently > > > > > > feel > > > > > > > > > quite > > > > > > > > > safe, unless I stick my face too close to the tank > then they > > > > > > > > > try to scare me off ;) Good thing I did all the planting > > > > > > > > > before this ;) I would > > > > > > have > > > > > > > > been > > > > > > > > > dodging Angel's just to plant the plants in the tank ;) I > > > > > > > > > figure > > > > > > all the > > > > > > > > > hornwort makes them feel more secure too. > > > > > > > > > And of course, out of all the slate I put in the tank for > > > > > > > > > them, > > > > > > where do > > > > > > > > > they lay the eggs? On the filter intake.... LOL. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Amber > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 41771	From: Lisa	Date: 7/7/2009
Subject: What happened?

My yabby died :( I checked the water for niterite and niterate and both were 0ppm. Ammonia is also at a safe level. PH stays stable as well as KH. And all other tamk inhabitants are still alive and swimming with no signs of illness. When i removed her from the tank. Her left arm appeared to be broken :( So i don't know what's happened to her. Lisa

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 41772	From: blackbetty0007	Date: 7/7/2009
Subject: Fat Platty?

Hi I'm new here so I hope I am doing this right...here goes. I have 3 platties, 2 females and 1 male and all seemed fine up till the other day when I noticed that the male one had a fat belly. it is on his under side and not really making him look fat at the sides, just past his lower jaw where his chest area would begin. I am positive he is a male as he is smaller than the girls and they have been having fry for months now and he is the dad. His tummy is quite prominant and I often see him just swimming under the surface of the water in the plants with his tail wagging rappidly. He is still eating as far as I can tell and is acting like he usually does when not swimming in the one spot wagging his tail. Any ideas would be appreciated. CHEERS

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 41773	From: Lisa	Date: 7/7/2009
Subject: Re: Fat Platty?

My pineapple female swordtail had that a while back. But she's never had any fry as far as i can tell. Lisa --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "blackbetty0007" <blackbetty0007@...> wrote: > > Hi I'm new here so I hope I am doing this right...here goes. > I have 3 platties, 2 females and 1 male and all seemed fine up till the other day when I noticed that the male one had a fat belly. it is on his under side and not really making him look fat at the sides, just past his lower jaw where his chest area would begin. I am positive he is a male as he is smaller than the girls and they have been having fry for months now and he is the dad. His tummy is quite prominant and I often see him just swimming under the surface of the water in the plants with his tail wagging rappidly. He is still eating as far as I can tell and is acting like he usually does when not swimming in the one spot wagging his tail. Any ideas would be appreciated. CHEERS >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 41774	From: Gwydryn@aol.com	Date: 7/7/2009
Subject: Re: Okay so far I've only lost 1 of my new fish

In a message dated 7/6/2009 4:55:13 P.M. Central Daylight Time, amber@... writes: Okay so far only one loss on my fish order, and it was one of the bleeding hearts. I noticed when I was adding them to the tank that one of them seemed a bit sluggish, I figure it's probably that one that I lost. Either way 1 out of 16 fish isn't too bad of a loss ratio. I plan on ordering from the same person again in the future. Oh and the snails will be here tomorrow, I'll be sure to take pictures and show off the cute little guys/gals LOL. Amber best of luck with the snails! I got 4, hoping for at least one girl....nothing, nada, not a single egg case....and I have had them for 2 months, and they are getting plenty of fresh veggies.... Guess I have to go back to the LFS and get 3 more and hope I get one this time. Enid "Life is not about waiting for the storms to pass...it's about learning how to dance in the rain." **************An Excellent Credit Score is 750. See Yours in Just 2 Easy Steps! (http://pr.atwola.com/promoclk/100126575x1222585089x1201462806/aol?redir=http://www.freecreditreport.com/pm/default.aspx?sc=668072&hmpgID=62&bcd=Jul yExcfooterNO62) [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 41775	From: Raymond Wetzel	Date: 7/7/2009
Subject: Re: Everything is spawning I swear! LOL

Yes, I can see that could be a problem which isn't often encountered when setting up a tank specifically for breeding Angels. I know breeding Angels is not your main concern, and I notice your mention of another Angel breeder using a Walstad tank set-up, but this is in the minority. Still, it would be interesting to see what they do. It's not the duration of the lighting that has an effect on them, but the intensity. You could cut the tank lighting back to one hour a day, but when exposed to that intensity for only a portion of that time, it's often enough to induce them to eat the eggs. Hopefully, your pair will eventually overcome this self-defeating stimulus, and it appears somehow that this other "el natural" forum member's fish have gotten past this problem (possibly as a result of specific floating plants?). I did say that many Angels will eat their eggs under these conditions, but stopped short of saying "most" (only questioning that possibility) as I can't verify such a conclusion -- although such behavior is generally expected in domestic Angels under such stimuli. There's a big difference between surface-floating plants such as Duckweed (floating water Sprite is excellent too), and free-floating Hornwort which is suspended in the water column. Fish such as Angels can swim under surface floating plants, which will provide some shading from the intensity of overhead light, but Hornwort grows as a blanket, often 6" o 8" thick -- which does not allow for tall fish to swim under it -- they swim around it. We'll see what this other person uses for plants, which may shed some light on the subject (oops, sorry about that pun). Might just be that, that person's fish have overcome that egg-eating problem from the start, and may just be a pair (or pairs) that are not prone to eating their eggs -- such as your pair is. I've seen another Angelfish breeder using planted tanks (with lighting) for their pairs, even though I don't believe they were Walstad tanks. She just preferred having the pairs raise their fry, and in a more natural setting. The "natural setting" part may have been more to her liking rather than to any preference of the fish, and I do recall she used floating plants, with low-light plants in the substrate. There's no way of knowing how often her pairs ate their eggs either until they got used to this environment. Ray --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, Amber Berglund <amber@...> wrote: > > Well the problem is that it's a walstad natural planted tank, so I need > some lighting for the low light plants (mostly crypts, some java fern > windelov's, and one sword plant, a large one), and a lot of duckweed and > floating hornwort. I thought the hornwort would subdue the lighting > enough, so I need a lot more? LOL. > I can set the lighting up to the minimum of 8 hours a day, but not sure > how well the plants will do with no added sunlight (walstad tanks are > supposed to get more lighting if they don't have added sunlight). > I will ask on the "el natural" forums about what other breeders do for > their Angel's I know at least one other person on there has a walstad > tank for their breeding angel's. > > Amber > > Raymond Wetzel wrote: > > > > > > You keep the aquarium lights on during the spawning, egg tending > > period? This is a no-no as many (most?) domestic pairs will eat their > > eggs every time. I guess I didn't expect this practice as I just > > thought that you probably read my posts on here concerning Angelfish > > breeding -- silly me, I guess I should never have jumped to that > > conclusion <G>. > > > > Since you really don't intend on breeding them anyway, it really > > doesn't matter, but just be advised that as long as you keep the tank > > lights burning while the pair have eggs, or fry (especially > > wrigglers), the chances are not good that the fish will leave the eggs > > untouched (uneaten). It's not so much that the glaring lighting spooks > > them, but the bright light all too well increases the fish's natural > > inclination to eat, when having to be confronted continously by the > > stimuli of the eggs looking increasingly like a food source when its > > lit up so brightly as though in a deli-case. Under such conditions, > > this stimulus overtakes the fish's reproductive instinct at some > > point. Subdued lighting will not promote such stimuli and the fish are > > found to retain their reproductive/protective instincts much more > > firmly. Ray > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>, Amber Berglund <amber@> wrote: > > > > > > Okay my rabbit breeding Angel's have a piece of slate put over the > > > intake tube now, I put the tallest one there, hopefully they will use > > > it. I move the hornwort over to that side of the tank, I figured > > because > > > it had higher lighting maybe that spooked them? I wish they would have > > > picked the other side though, LOL. > > > > > > Amber > > > > > > Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > If they like spawning on reeds or other upright stalks of plants, > > why not > > > > get some 1/2" PVC pipe pieces, paint them greenish colored (with > > aquarium > > > > safe paint like 2-part epoxy paint... or maybe one of them new Krylon > > > > plastic paints that bond with the plastic/PVC... but check to make > > sure > > > > others have used this with success first) and stand them up in the > > back or > > > > corners. They would also be easy to remove if you decide to move > > the eggs > > > > to another tank for hatching. > > > > > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>> > > > > (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the > > right > > > > side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, > > Month) > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On > > > > Behalf Of Raymond Wetzel > > > > Sent: Sunday, July 05, 2009 7:31 PM > > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Everything is spawning I swear! LOL > > > > > > > > There are people who will custom cut spawning slates for Angels. > > If you > > > > need a source for longer slates, let me know. I'll see if I can > > dig up the > > > > info for someone I used to make me a bunch a couple of years ago, > > hoping > > > > that they still make them. Ray > > > > > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>, Amber Berglund <amber@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > I covered the end of the intake tube in several layers of nettting > > > > > (that you get from a hardware store), I don't know how small it > > needs > > > > > to be but it's probably not small enough to protect the fry from > > being > > > > sucked up. > > > > > I can float the inserts in the filter in the tank to help keep the > > > > > bacteria alive, or I could put them back into another tank too. > > > > > I had slate leaning up against next to both sides of the intake > > filter > > > > > hoping they might use them, I didn't think to lean the largest one > > > > > right up against the intake tube, I thought it would block the > > flow too > > > > much. > > > > > Next time I'll try adding more slate to the tank, I had 2 medium > > sized > > > > > pieces but I have more in my 125 gallon tank too, and plenty > > > > outside, LOL. > > > > > > > > > > Amber > > > > > > > > > > Raymond Wetzel wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Yes, this female is a Veiltail. Since, as I believe your > > intentions > > > > > > are to have the pair raise the fry, you'll not be removing the > > eggs > > > > > > you'll then need to shut off the filter in about 6 days (from the > > > > > > time the eggs were laid). As part of the pair's pre-spawning > > > > > > behaviorb of cleaning the spawning site, you should not have been > > > > > > surprised that the filter intake was chosen -- unless you missed > > > > > > that -- even if there were other sites they cleaned prior to > > selecting > > > > this. > > > > > > > > > > > > Next time, just lean a spawning slate up against the filter intake > > > > > > if it reaches, so that the pair has no other choice but to use the > > > > > > slate if they insist on using that area. At least this way, you > > > > > > could then leave that slate (w/eggs) in position, but leaning up > > > > > > against the glass while you re-position the filter, and intake > > tube > > > > > > -- or move the slate a short distance provided they don't get too > > > > freaked out by that. > > > > > > > > > > > > Right now, the eggs will be safe from being drawn up into the > > filter > > > > > > as their adhesion to the tube is fairly strong. After hatching, > > > > > > which takes about 3 days, this adhesion is still fairly > > strong, but > > > > > > lessens with each proceeding day towards the free-swimming stage > > > > > > (takes another 3 1/2 to usually closer to 4 days). You'll need to > > > > > > shut the filter down (or remove the intake tube from it, > > moving it a > > > > > > short > > > > > > distance) early on the 3rd day to prevent the now less-adhesive > > > > > > wrigglers from being drawn up into the filter. As a reminder, > > > > > > complete shut down of the filter will kill off your nitrifying > > > > > > bacteria unless you supply it with an airstone. As you can see, it > > > > > > would have been so much less complicated to have them spawn on a > > > > slate. > > > > > > > > > > > > Some other early Angelfish breeders also used 1/2" diameter glass > > > > > > tubing (then obtained from a neon sign shop). Rigid plastic tubing > > > > > > may also be used. This is either filled with green sand and capped > > > > > > off, or painted green inside then filled with plain sand. Angels > > > > > > prefer using such tubes, simulating natural reeds, even before > > using > > > > > > slates -- but it's usually best to supply them with several, as > > > > > > large spawns won't fit on one such site. As they appear "solid" > > > > > > rather than clear, they'd much prefer to use them before filter > > > > > > intakes too. Ray > > > > > > > > > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>, Amber Berglund > > <amber@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Okay I just uploaded a correctly rotated photo with just a > > > > > > > contrast touch up, now you won't have to turn your head to look > > > > at her > > > > ;) LOL. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Amber > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Amber Berglund wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Did you check out my new photo of my female? She's very > > pretty I > > > > > > > > think she's what's called a veil tail? Maybe Ray can tell > > me for > > > > > > > > sure, I > > > > > > like > > > > > > > > her though. > > > > > > > > Just posted the photo to my photo album tonight. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife/photos/album/243006836/pic > > <http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife/photos/album/243006836/pic> > > > > > > <http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife/photos/album/243006836/pic > > <http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife/photos/album/243006836/pic>> > > > > > > > > /484754961/view?picmode=&mode=tn&order=ordinal&start=41&count=20&dir > > > > > > =asc > > > > > > > > > > > > <http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife/photos/album/243006836/pi > > <http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife/photos/album/243006836/pi> > > > > > > <http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife/photos/album/243006836/pi > > <http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife/photos/album/243006836/pi>> > > > > > > > > c/484754961/view?picmode=&mode=tn&order=ordinal&start=41&count=20&di > > > > > > r=asc> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > <http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife/photos/album/243006836/pi > > <http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife/photos/album/243006836/pi> > > > > > > <http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife/photos/album/243006836/pi > > <http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife/photos/album/243006836/pi>> > > > > > > > > c/484754961/view?picmode=&mode=tn&order=ordinal&start=41&count=20&di > > > > > > r=asc > > > > > > > > > > > > <http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife/photos/album/243006836/pi > > <http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife/photos/album/243006836/pi> > > > > > > <http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife/photos/album/243006836/pi > > <http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife/photos/album/243006836/pi>> > > > > > > > > c/484754961/view?picmode=&mode=tn&order=ordinal&start=41&count=20&di > > > > > > r=asc>> > > > > > > > > And silly me I forgot to rotate it, LOL, I'll get a rotated > > > > > > > > picture up soon ;) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Amber > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I think your Angelfish are a slightly different variant than > > > > > > > > > the > > > > > > normal > > > > > > > > > species... maybe: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Pterophyllum scalare leporidae > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > > > > > > > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>> > > > > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>>> > > > > > > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>> > > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>>>> > > > > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>> > > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>>> > > > > > > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>> > > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>>>>> > > > > > > > > > (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are > > listed on > > > > > > the right > > > > > > > > > side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by > > > > > > > > > Year, > > > > > > > > Month) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > > > > > > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > > > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On Behalf Of Amber > > > > > > > > > Berglund > > > > > > > > > Sent: Saturday, July 04, 2009 11:01 PM > > > > > > > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > > > Subject: [AquaticLife] Everything is spawning I swear! LOL > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Okay so the Angel's got used to their environment and > > > > > > > > > apparently > > > > > > feel > > > > > > > > > quite > > > > > > > > > safe, unless I stick my face too close to the tank then they > > > > > > > > > try to scare me off ;) Good thing I did all the planting > > > > > > > > > before this ;) I would > > > > > > have > > > > > > > > been > > > > > > > > > dodging Angel's just to plant the plants in the tank ;) I > > > > > > > > > figure > > > > > > all the > > > > > > > > > hornwort makes them feel more secure too. > > > > > > > > > And of course, out of all the slate I put in the tank for > > > > > > > > > them, > > > > > > where do > > > > > > > > > they lay the eggs? On the filter intake.... LOL. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Amber > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 41776	From: Raymond Wetzel	Date: 7/7/2009
Subject: Re: Everything is spawning I swear! LOL

Naja (Najas) is an excellent plant and has a number of beneficial uses. I've never seen it to be particularly breakable, not that it would matter anyway as it's so prolific. I grow both Najas and Java Moss; one floats suspended under the water surface and one rests on the bottom, still free-floating -- both will grow into a hugh mat; their grow habit is similar to Hornwort. While I did say it will grow to 6" - 8" thick, some of the smaller tanks that I grow these plants in, like 10 gallons, have grown from top to bottom with these plants (that's 12" high). They're good for certain small fry, but cannot be relied upon as a top-water cover for larger fish. If you want to add to your top-water cover, try the floating Water Sprite that I mentioned, but any such cover will reduce the lighting intended for the Crypts and Swords. Ray --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, Amber Berglund <amber@...> wrote: > > Oh also, I have a box full of guppy (naja) grass on the way as well, > should I bother adding it to the Angel tank? It breaks easily from what > I've read, but if I left it floating it might be okay. > > Amber > > Amber Berglund wrote: > > > > > > Well the problem is that it's a walstad natural planted tank, so I need > > some lighting for the low light plants (mostly crypts, some java fern > > windelov's, and one sword plant, a large one), and a lot of duckweed and > > floating hornwort. I thought the hornwort would subdue the lighting > > enough, so I need a lot more? LOL. > > I can set the lighting up to the minimum of 8 hours a day, but not sure > > how well the plants will do with no added sunlight (walstad tanks are > > supposed to get more lighting if they don't have added sunlight). > > I will ask on the "el natural" forums about what other breeders do for > > their Angel's I know at least one other person on there has a walstad > > tank for their breeding angel's. > > > > Amber > > > > Raymond Wetzel wrote: > > > > > > > > > You keep the aquarium lights on during the spawning, egg tending > > > period? This is a no-no as many (most?) domestic pairs will eat their > > > eggs every time. I guess I didn't expect this practice as I just > > > thought that you probably read my posts on here concerning Angelfish > > > breeding -- silly me, I guess I should never have jumped to that > > > conclusion <G>. > > > > > > Since you really don't intend on breeding them anyway, it really > > > doesn't matter, but just be advised that as long as you keep the tank > > > lights burning while the pair have eggs, or fry (especially > > > wrigglers), the chances are not good that the fish will leave the eggs > > > untouched (uneaten). It's not so much that the glaring lighting spooks > > > them, but the bright light all too well increases the fish's natural > > > inclination to eat, when having to be confronted continously by the > > > stimuli of the eggs looking increasingly like a food source when its > > > lit up so brightly as though in a deli-case. Under such conditions, > > > this stimulus overtakes the fish's reproductive instinct at some > > > point. Subdued lighting will not promote such stimuli and the fish are > > > found to retain their reproductive/protective instincts much more > > > firmly. Ray > > > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>, Amber Berglund <amber@> > > wrote: > > > > > > > > Okay my rabbit breeding Angel's have a piece of slate put over the > > > > intake tube now, I put the tallest one there, hopefully they will use > > > > it. I move the hornwort over to that side of the tank, I figured > > > because > > > > it had higher lighting maybe that spooked them? I wish they would have > > > > picked the other side though, LOL. > > > > > > > > Amber > > > > > > > > Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > If they like spawning on reeds or other upright stalks of plants, > > > why not > > > > > get some 1/2" PVC pipe pieces, paint them greenish colored (with > > > aquarium > > > > > safe paint like 2-part epoxy paint... or maybe one of them new > > Krylon > > > > > plastic paints that bond with the plastic/PVC... but check to make > > > sure > > > > > others have used this with success first) and stand them up in the > > > back or > > > > > corners. They would also be easy to remove if you decide to move > > > the eggs > > > > > to another tank for hatching. > > > > > > > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > > > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>> > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>>> > > > > > (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the > > > right > > > > > side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, > > > Month) > > > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On > > > > > Behalf Of Raymond Wetzel > > > > > Sent: Sunday, July 05, 2009 7:31 PM > > > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Everything is spawning I swear! LOL > > > > > > > > > > There are people who will custom cut spawning slates for Angels. > > > If you > > > > > need a source for longer slates, let me know. I'll see if I can > > > dig up the > > > > > info for someone I used to make me a bunch a couple of years ago, > > > hoping > > > > > that they still make them. Ray > > > > > > > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>, Amber Berglund <amber@> > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > I covered the end of the intake tube in several layers of nettting > > > > > > (that you get from a hardware store), I don't know how small it > > > needs > > > > > > to be but it's probably not small enough to protect the fry from > > > being > > > > > sucked up. > > > > > > I can float the inserts in the filter in the tank to help keep the > > > > > > bacteria alive, or I could put them back into another tank too. > > > > > > I had slate leaning up against next to both sides of the intake > > > filter > > > > > > hoping they might use them, I didn't think to lean the largest one > > > > > > right up against the intake tube, I thought it would block the > > > flow too > > > > > much. > > > > > > Next time I'll try adding more slate to the tank, I had 2 medium > > > sized > > > > > > pieces but I have more in my 125 gallon tank too, and plenty > > > > > outside, LOL. > > > > > > > > > > > > Amber > > > > > > > > > > > > Raymond Wetzel wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Yes, this female is a Veiltail. Since, as I believe your > > > intentions > > > > > > > are to have the pair raise the fry, you'll not be removing the > > > eggs > > > > > > > you'll then need to shut off the filter in about 6 days > > (from the > > > > > > > time the eggs were laid). As part of the pair's pre-spawning > > > > > > > behaviorb of cleaning the spawning site, you should not have > > been > > > > > > > surprised that the filter intake was chosen -- unless you missed > > > > > > > that -- even if there were other sites they cleaned prior to > > > selecting > > > > > this. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Next time, just lean a spawning slate up against the filter > > intake > > > > > > > if it reaches, so that the pair has no other choice but to > > use the > > > > > > > slate if they insist on using that area. At least this way, you > > > > > > > could then leave that slate (w/eggs) in position, but leaning up > > > > > > > against the glass while you re-position the filter, and intake > > > tube > > > > > > > -- or move the slate a short distance provided they don't > > get too > > > > > freaked out by that. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Right now, the eggs will be safe from being drawn up into the > > > filter > > > > > > > as their adhesion to the tube is fairly strong. After hatching, > > > > > > > which takes about 3 days, this adhesion is still fairly > > > strong, but > > > > > > > lessens with each proceeding day towards the free-swimming stage > > > > > > > (takes another 3 1/2 to usually closer to 4 days). You'll > > need to > > > > > > > shut the filter down (or remove the intake tube from it, > > > moving it a > > > > > > > short > > > > > > > distance) early on the 3rd day to prevent the now less-adhesive > > > > > > > wrigglers from being drawn up into the filter. As a reminder, > > > > > > > complete shut down of the filter will kill off your nitrifying > > > > > > > bacteria unless you supply it with an airstone. As you can > > see, it > > > > > > > would have been so much less complicated to have them spawn on a > > > > > slate. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Some other early Angelfish breeders also used 1/2" diameter > > glass > > > > > > > tubing (then obtained from a neon sign shop). Rigid plastic > > tubing > > > > > > > may also be used. This is either filled with green sand and > > capped > > > > > > > off, or painted green inside then filled with plain sand. Angels > > > > > > > prefer using such tubes, simulating natural reeds, even before > > > using > > > > > > > slates -- but it's usually best to supply them with several, as > > > > > > > large spawns won't fit on one such site. As they appear "solid" > > > > > > > rather than clear, they'd much prefer to use them before filter > > > > > > > intakes too. Ray > > > > > > > > > > > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>, Amber Berglund > > > <amber@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Okay I just uploaded a correctly rotated photo with just a > > > > > > > > contrast touch up, now you won't have to turn your head to > > look > > > > > at her > > > > > ;) LOL. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Amber > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Amber Berglund wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Did you check out my new photo of my female? She's very > > > pretty I > > > > > > > > > think she's what's called a veil tail? Maybe Ray can tell > > > me for > > > > > > > > > sure, I > > > > > > > like > > > > > > > > > her though. > > > > > > > > > Just posted the photo to my photo album tonight. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife/photos/album/243006836/pic > > <http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife/photos/album/243006836/pic> > > > > > <http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife/photos/album/243006836/pic > > <http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife/photos/album/243006836/pic>> > > > > > > > > > > <http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife/photos/album/243006836/pic > > <http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife/photos/album/243006836/pic> > > > > > <http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife/photos/album/243006836/pic > > <http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife/photos/album/243006836/pic>>> > > > > > > > > > > /484754961/view?picmode=&mode=tn&order=ordinal&start=41&count=20&dir > > > > > > > =asc > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > <http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife/photos/album/243006836/pi > > <http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife/photos/album/243006836/pi> > > > <http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife/photos/album/243006836/pi > > <http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife/photos/album/243006836/pi>> > > > > > > > > <http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife/photos/album/243006836/pi > > <http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife/photos/album/243006836/pi> > > > <http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife/photos/album/243006836/pi > > <http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife/photos/album/243006836/pi>>> > > > > > > > > > > c/484754961/view?picmode=&mode=tn&order=ordinal&start=41&count=20&di > > > > > > > r=asc> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > <http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife/photos/album/243006836/pi > > <http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife/photos/album/243006836/pi> > > > <http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife/photos/album/243006836/pi > > <http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife/photos/album/243006836/pi>> > > > > > > > > <http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife/photos/album/243006836/pi > > <http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife/photos/album/243006836/pi> > > > <http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife/photos/album/243006836/pi > > <http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife/photos/album/243006836/pi>>> > > > > > > > > > > c/484754961/view?picmode=&mode=tn&order=ordinal&start=41&count=20&di > > > > > > > r=asc > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > <http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife/photos/album/243006836/pi > > <http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife/photos/album/243006836/pi> > > > <http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife/photos/album/243006836/pi > > <http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife/photos/album/243006836/pi>> > > > > > > > > <http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife/photos/album/243006836/pi > > <http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife/photos/album/243006836/pi> > > > <http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife/photos/album/243006836/pi > > <http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife/photos/album/243006836/pi>>> > > > > > > > > > > c/484754961/view?picmode=&mode=tn&order=ordinal&start=41&count=20&di > > > > > > > r=asc>> > > > > > > > > > And silly me I forgot to rotate it, LOL, I'll get a rotated > > > > > > > > > picture up soon ;) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Amber > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I think your Angelfish are a slightly different > > variant than > > > > > > > > > > the > > > > > > > normal > > > > > > > > > > species... maybe: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Pterophyllum scalare leporidae > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > > > > > > > > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>> > > > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>>> > > > > > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>> > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>>>> > > > > > > > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>> > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>>> > > > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>> > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>>>>> > > > > > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>> > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>>> > > > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>> > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>>>> > > > > > > > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>> > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>>> > > > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>> > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>>>>>> > > > > > > > > > > (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are > > > listed on > > > > > > > the right > > > > > > > > > > side, alphabetically under Labels and also under > > Archives by > > > > > > > > > > Year, > > > > > > > > > Month) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > > > > > > > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > > > > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On Behalf Of Amber > > > > > > > > > > Berglund > > > > > > > > > > Sent: Saturday, July 04, 2009 11:01 PM > > > > > > > > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > > > > Subject: [AquaticLife] Everything is spawning I swear! LOL > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Okay so the Angel's got used to their environment and > > > > > > > > > > apparently > > > > > > > feel > > > > > > > > > > quite > > > > > > > > > > safe, unless I stick my face too close to the tank > > then they > > > > > > > > > > try to scare me off ;) Good thing I did all the planting > > > > > > > > > > before this ;) I would > > > > > > > have > > > > > > > > > been > > > > > > > > > > dodging Angel's just to plant the plants in the tank ;) I > > > > > > > > > > figure > > > > > > > all the > > > > > > > > > > hornwort makes them feel more secure too. > > > > > > > > > > And of course, out of all the slate I put in the tank for > > > > > > > > > > them, > > > > > > > where do > > > > > > > > > > they lay the eggs? On the filter intake.... LOL. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Amber > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 41777	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 7/7/2009
Subject: Re: What happened?

Was the shell hard? I'm guessing it was or you would have likely mentioned it was soft. It's unusual for there to be 0.0ppm for nitrate as that is the end product of the nitrogen cycle (ammonia>nitrite>nitrate). Double check your tests for ammonia, nitrite and nitrate. What brand/type of test kit do you use? You mention that ammonia is at a "safe level" but the only really safe level for ammonia is 0.0ppm. If you are getting any kind of ammonia reading, then it means you have cycling issues (The Nitrogen Cycle) which would also explain the 0.0 reading for nitrate. Also, what is your pH and KH? Giving us numbers is a lot better for us to try and figure things out. As far as the left arm being broken... what do you mean? Was it just limp or was one of the joints actually broken? I'm presuming it was the left main claw? I know you mentioned that it was digging under a piece of wood or rock or something recently and hiding in the burrowed area. Do you see where anything could have caved in? Ohh.. one other BIG thing. Is it definitely the FULL crawfish and not just the shell? When they molt, they will crawl out of the bottom of their shell as a soft critter and go into hiding and leave their old shell just sitting there. Many folks have been fooled into thinking their crawfish or shrimp died when it really just molted and is in hiding until the new shell gets hard enough. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Lisa Sent: Tuesday, July 07, 2009 2:08 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] What happened? My yabby died :( I checked the water for niterite and niterate and both were 0ppm. Ammonia is also at a safe level. PH stays stable as well as KH. And all other tamk inhabitants are still alive and swimming with no signs of illness. When i removed her from the tank. Her left arm appeared to be broken :( So i don't know what's happened to her. Lisa

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 41778	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 7/7/2009
Subject: Re: Fat Platty?

How long have you had them? Female livebearers can give birth several times after they've been impregnated, even after the male is no longer around, so your daddy may not be the daddy. (I hear Maury calling! LOL) Do you know how to sex them properly? Here is a drawing that shows the difference in the anal fin where the males turns into a gonopodium. http://media.photobucket.com/image/sexing%20platties/bluetiger916/Platy_sexi ng.jpg And a couple of pictures. Female - http://www.fishforever.co.uk/images/female.jpg Male - http://www.fishforever.co.uk/images/male2.jpg And one more for good luck. http://thesmileyfish.com/wp-content/uploads/2008/03/tropicalfish010.jpg Here's a couple of GOOD profiles/care sheets on livebearers that will give you much more info about their overall care. http://www.americanaquariumproducts.com/Livebearers.html http://fish.mongabay.com/poeciliidae.htm (More about Platties down near the bottom) The bulge "just below his lower jaw" is something to keep an eye on. That is not where their digestive or reproductive organs are located so constipation/bloating nor pregnancy (if a female) would explain that. Further, staying in the plants is something a sick fish will do (and they will also try to act normal) so that the other fish do not realize they are sick. In the wild, Darwinism (survival of the fittest) takes over and healthy fish will often kill a sick fish themselves as well as sick fish being more prone to being caught by a predator so sick fish will usually hide as a way of trying to survive. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of blackbetty0007 Sent: Tuesday, July 07, 2009 1:58 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Fat Platty? Hi I'm new here so I hope I am doing this right...here goes. I have 3 platties, 2 females and 1 male and all seemed fine up till the other day when I noticed that the male one had a fat belly. it is on his under side and not really making him look fat at the sides, just past his lower jaw where his chest area would begin. I am positive he is a male as he is smaller than the girls and they have been having fry for months now and he is the dad. His tummy is quite prominant and I often see him just swimming under the surface of the water in the plants with his tail wagging rappidly. He is still eating as far as I can tell and is acting like he usually does when not swimming in the one spot wagging his tail. Any ideas would be appreciated. CHEERS

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 41779	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 7/7/2009
Subject: Re: Everything is spawning I swear! LOL

Maybe put something to shade that part of the tank from the lighting? If you don't have enough floating plants in the area. Since it's the intake for an HOB (I think), the return water would likely push floating plants away from that area so you may need a piece of your slate or other material to block the light shining down on that area. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Raymond Wetzel Sent: Tuesday, July 07, 2009 7:49 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Everything is spawning I swear! LOL Yes, I can see that could be a problem which isn't often encountered when setting up a tank specifically for breeding Angels. I know breeding Angels is not your main concern, and I notice your mention of another Angel breeder using a Walstad tank set-up, but this is in the minority. Still, it would be interesting to see what they do. It's not the duration of the lighting that has an effect on them, but the intensity. You could cut the tank lighting back to one hour a day, but when exposed to that intensity for only a portion of that time, it's often enough to induce them to eat the eggs. Hopefully, your pair will eventually overcome this self-defeating stimulus, and it appears somehow that this other "el natural" forum member's fish have gotten past this problem (possibly as a result of specific floating plants?). I did say that many Angels will eat their eggs under these conditions, but stopped short of saying "most" (only questioning that possibility) as I can't verify such a conclusion -- although such behavior is generally expected in domestic Angels under such stimuli. There's a big difference between surface-floating plants such as Duckweed (floating water Sprite is excellent too), and free-floating Hornwort which is suspended in the water column. Fish such as Angels can swim under surface floating plants, which will provide some shading from the intensity of overhead light, but Hornwort grows as a blanket, often 6" o 8" thick -- which does not allow for tall fish to swim under it -- they swim around it. We'll see what this other person uses for plants, which may shed some light on the subject (oops, sorry about that pun). Might just be that, that person's fish have overcome that egg-eating problem from the start, and may just be a pair (or pairs) that are not prone to eating their eggs -- such as your pair is. I've seen another Angelfish breeder using planted tanks (with lighting) for their pairs, even though I don't believe they were Walstad tanks. She just preferred having the pairs raise their fry, and in a more natural setting. The "natural setting" part may have been more to her liking rather than to any preference of the fish, and I do recall she used floating plants, with low-light plants in the substrate. There's no way of knowing how often her pairs ate their eggs either until they got used to this environment. Ray --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, Amber Berglund <amber@...> wrote: > > Well the problem is that it's a walstad natural planted tank, so I > need some lighting for the low light plants (mostly crypts, some java > fern windelov's, and one sword plant, a large one), and a lot of > duckweed and floating hornwort. I thought the hornwort would subdue > the lighting enough, so I need a lot more? LOL. > I can set the lighting up to the minimum of 8 hours a day, but not > sure how well the plants will do with no added sunlight (walstad tanks > are supposed to get more lighting if they don't have added sunlight). > I will ask on the "el natural" forums about what other breeders do for > their Angel's I know at least one other person on there has a walstad > tank for their breeding angel's. > > Amber > > Raymond Wetzel wrote: > > > > > > You keep the aquarium lights on during the spawning, egg tending > > period? This is a no-no as many (most?) domestic pairs will eat > > their eggs every time. I guess I didn't expect this practice as I > > just thought that you probably read my posts on here concerning > > Angelfish breeding -- silly me, I guess I should never have jumped > > to that conclusion <G>. > > > > Since you really don't intend on breeding them anyway, it really > > doesn't matter, but just be advised that as long as you keep the > > tank lights burning while the pair have eggs, or fry (especially > > wrigglers), the chances are not good that the fish will leave the > > eggs untouched (uneaten). It's not so much that the glaring lighting > > spooks them, but the bright light all too well increases the fish's > > natural inclination to eat, when having to be confronted continously > > by the stimuli of the eggs looking increasingly like a food source > > when its lit up so brightly as though in a deli-case. Under such > > conditions, this stimulus overtakes the fish's reproductive instinct > > at some point. Subdued lighting will not promote such stimuli and > > the fish are found to retain their reproductive/protective instincts > > much more firmly. Ray > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>, Amber Berglund <amber@> wrote: > > > > > > Okay my rabbit breeding Angel's have a piece of slate put over the > > > intake tube now, I put the tallest one there, hopefully they will > > > use it. I move the hornwort over to that side of the tank, I > > > figured > > because > > > it had higher lighting maybe that spooked them? I wish they would > > > have picked the other side though, LOL. > > > > > > Amber > > > > > > Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > If they like spawning on reeds or other upright stalks of > > > > plants, > > why not > > > > get some 1/2" PVC pipe pieces, paint them greenish colored (with > > aquarium > > > > safe paint like 2-part epoxy paint... or maybe one of them new > > > > Krylon plastic paints that bond with the plastic/PVC... but > > > > check to make > > sure > > > > others have used this with success first) and stand them up in > > > > the > > back or > > > > corners. They would also be easy to remove if you decide to move > > the eggs > > > > to another tank for hatching. > > > > > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>> > > > > (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on > > > > the > > right > > > > side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by > > > > Year, > > Month) > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On Behalf Of Raymond > > > > Wetzel > > > > Sent: Sunday, July 05, 2009 7:31 PM > > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Everything is spawning I swear! LOL > > > > > > > > There are people who will custom cut spawning slates for Angels. > > If you > > > > need a source for longer slates, let me know. I'll see if I can > > dig up the > > > > info for someone I used to make me a bunch a couple of years > > > > ago, > > hoping > > > > that they still make them. Ray > > > > > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>, Amber Berglund <amber@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > I covered the end of the intake tube in several layers of > > > > > nettting (that you get from a hardware store), I don't know > > > > > how small it > > needs > > > > > to be but it's probably not small enough to protect the fry > > > > > from > > being > > > > sucked up. > > > > > I can float the inserts in the filter in the tank to help keep > > > > > the bacteria alive, or I could put them back into another tank too. > > > > > I had slate leaning up against next to both sides of the > > > > > intake > > filter > > > > > hoping they might use them, I didn't think to lean the largest > > > > > one right up against the intake tube, I thought it would block > > > > > the > > flow too > > > > much. > > > > > Next time I'll try adding more slate to the tank, I had 2 > > > > > medium > > sized > > > > > pieces but I have more in my 125 gallon tank too, and plenty > > > > outside, LOL. > > > > > > > > > > Amber > > > > > > > > > > Raymond Wetzel wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Yes, this female is a Veiltail. Since, as I believe your > > intentions > > > > > > are to have the pair raise the fry, you'll not be removing > > > > > > the > > eggs > > > > > > you'll then need to shut off the filter in about 6 days > > > > > > (from the time the eggs were laid). As part of the pair's > > > > > > pre-spawning behaviorb of cleaning the spawning site, you > > > > > > should not have been surprised that the filter intake was > > > > > > chosen -- unless you missed that -- even if there were other > > > > > > sites they cleaned prior to > > selecting > > > > this. > > > > > > > > > > > > Next time, just lean a spawning slate up against the filter > > > > > > intake if it reaches, so that the pair has no other choice > > > > > > but to use the slate if they insist on using that area. At > > > > > > least this way, you could then leave that slate (w/eggs) in > > > > > > position, but leaning up against the glass while you > > > > > > re-position the filter, and intake > > tube > > > > > > -- or move the slate a short distance provided they don't > > > > > > get too > > > > freaked out by that. > > > > > > > > > > > > Right now, the eggs will be safe from being drawn up into > > > > > > the > > filter > > > > > > as their adhesion to the tube is fairly strong. After > > > > > > hatching, which takes about 3 days, this adhesion is still > > > > > > fairly > > strong, but > > > > > > lessens with each proceeding day towards the free-swimming > > > > > > stage (takes another 3 1/2 to usually closer to 4 days). > > > > > > You'll need to shut the filter down (or remove the intake > > > > > > tube from it, > > moving it a > > > > > > short > > > > > > distance) early on the 3rd day to prevent the now > > > > > > less-adhesive wrigglers from being drawn up into the filter. > > > > > > As a reminder, complete shut down of the filter will kill > > > > > > off your nitrifying bacteria unless you supply it with an > > > > > > airstone. As you can see, it would have been so much less > > > > > > complicated to have them spawn on a > > > > slate. > > > > > > > > > > > > Some other early Angelfish breeders also used 1/2" diameter > > > > > > glass tubing (then obtained from a neon sign shop). Rigid > > > > > > plastic tubing may also be used. This is either filled with > > > > > > green sand and capped off, or painted green inside then > > > > > > filled with plain sand. Angels prefer using such tubes, > > > > > > simulating natural reeds, even before > > using > > > > > > slates -- but it's usually best to supply them with several, > > > > > > as large spawns won't fit on one such site. As they appear "solid" > > > > > > rather than clear, they'd much prefer to use them before > > > > > > filter intakes too. Ray > > > > > > > > > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>, Amber Berglund > > <amber@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Okay I just uploaded a correctly rotated photo with just a > > > > > > > contrast touch up, now you won't have to turn your head to > > > > > > > look > > > > at her > > > > ;) LOL. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Amber > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Amber Berglund wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Did you check out my new photo of my female? She's very > > pretty I > > > > > > > > think she's what's called a veil tail? Maybe Ray can > > > > > > > > tell > > me for > > > > > > > > sure, I > > > > > > like > > > > > > > > her though. > > > > > > > > Just posted the photo to my photo album tonight. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife/photos/album/243006836/pic > > <http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife/photos/album/243006836/pi > > c> > > > > > > <http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife/photos/album/243006836/pi > > c > > <http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife/photos/album/243006836/pi > > c>> > > > > > > > > /484754961/view?picmode=&mode=tn&order=ordinal&start=41&count=20&dir > > > > > > =asc > > > > > > > > > > > > <http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife/photos/album/243006836/pi > > <http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife/photos/album/243006836/pi > > > > > > > > > <http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife/photos/album/243006836/pi > > <http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife/photos/album/243006836/pi > > >> > > > > > > > > c/484754961/view?picmode=&mode=tn&order=ordinal&start=41&count=20&di > > > > > > r=asc> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > <http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife/photos/album/243006836/pi > > <http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife/photos/album/243006836/pi > > > > > > > > > <http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife/photos/album/243006836/pi > > <http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife/photos/album/243006836/pi > > >> > > > > > > > > c/484754961/view?picmode=&mode=tn&order=ordinal&start=41&count=20&di > > > > > > r=asc > > > > > > > > > > > > <http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife/photos/album/243006836/pi > > <http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife/photos/album/243006836/pi > > > > > > > > > <http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife/photos/album/243006836/pi > > <http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife/photos/album/243006836/pi > > >> > > > > > > > > c/484754961/view?picmode=&mode=tn&order=ordinal&start=41&count=20&di > > > > > > r=asc>> > > > > > > > > And silly me I forgot to rotate it, LOL, I'll get a > > > > > > > > rotated picture up soon ;) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Amber > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I think your Angelfish are a slightly different > > > > > > > > > variant than the > > > > > > normal > > > > > > > > > species... maybe: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Pterophyllum scalare leporidae > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > > > > > > > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>> > > > > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > > > > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>>> > > > > > > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>> > > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>>>> > > > > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > > > > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>> > > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>>> > > > > > > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>> > > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>>>>> > > > > > > > > > (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are > > listed on > > > > > > the right > > > > > > > > > side, alphabetically under Labels and also under > > > > > > > > > Archives by Year, > > > > > > > > Month) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > > > > > > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > > > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On Behalf Of > > > > > > > > > Amber Berglund > > > > > > > > > Sent: Saturday, July 04, 2009 11:01 PM > > > > > > > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > > > Subject: [AquaticLife] Everything is spawning I swear! > > > > > > > > > LOL > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Okay so the Angel's got used to their environment and > > > > > > > > > apparently > > > > > > feel > > > > > > > > > quite > > > > > > > > > safe, unless I stick my face too close to the tank > > > > > > > > > then they try to scare me off ;) Good thing I did all > > > > > > > > > the planting before this ;) I would > > > > > > have > > > > > > > > been > > > > > > > > > dodging Angel's just to plant the plants in the tank > > > > > > > > > ;) I figure > > > > > > all the > > > > > > > > > hornwort makes them feel more secure too. > > > > > > > > > And of course, out of all the slate I put in the tank > > > > > > > > > for them, > > > > > > where do > > > > > > > > > they lay the eggs? On the filter intake.... LOL. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Amber > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ------------------------------------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the home page. Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com to receive the digest, which includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com for the No E-Mail option where you will still be able to read messages on the group and post replies. Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com to receive individual e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 41780	From: mosquitokr2002	Date: 7/7/2009
Subject: Re: Aquatic zoology

Pick up a copy of Animals Without Backbones by Buchsbaum. I was studying Marine Biology and this was the text for Invertebrate Zoology. Extremely useful and well-written.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 41781	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 7/7/2009
Subject: Re: Everything is spawning I swear! LOL

I can plant a dwarf lilly that will grow floating leaves? The one in the 125 gallon tank has tanken over half the tank with floating leaves, the plants under have actually started to grow better, I guess they like less light (I think they're swords mostly, and one anubias, but there's one that I'm not sure of, maybe a narrow leaf sword?). Amber Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > > > Maybe put something to shade that part of the tank from the lighting? If > you don't have enough floating plants in the area. Since it's the intake > for an HOB (I think), the return water would likely push floating plants > away from that area so you may need a piece of your slate or other > material > to block the light shining down on that area. > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right > side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On > Behalf Of Raymond Wetzel > Sent: Tuesday, July 07, 2009 7:49 AM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Everything is spawning I swear! LOL > > Yes, I can see that could be a problem which isn't often encountered when > setting up a tank specifically for breeding Angels. I know breeding Angels > is not your main concern, and I notice your mention of another Angel > breeder > using a Walstad tank set-up, but this is in the minority. Still, it would > be interesting to see what they do. > > It's not the duration of the lighting that has an effect on them, but the > intensity. You could cut the tank lighting back to one hour a day, but > when > exposed to that intensity for only a portion of that time, it's often > enough > to induce them to eat the eggs. Hopefully, your pair will eventually > overcome this self-defeating stimulus, and it appears somehow that this > other "el natural" forum member's fish have gotten past this problem > (possibly as a result of specific floating plants?). I did say that many > Angels will eat their eggs under these conditions, but stopped short of > saying "most" (only questioning that possibility) as I can't verify such a > conclusion -- although such behavior is generally expected in domestic > Angels under such stimuli. > > There's a big difference between surface-floating plants such as Duckweed > (floating water Sprite is excellent too), and free-floating Hornwort which > is suspended in the water column. Fish such as Angels can swim under > surface floating plants, which will provide some shading from the > intensity > of overhead light, but Hornwort grows as a blanket, often 6" o 8" thick -- > which does not allow for tall fish to swim under it -- they swim > around it. > We'll see what this other person uses for plants, which may shed some > light > on the subject (oops, sorry about that pun). Might just be that, that > person's fish have overcome that egg-eating problem from the start, > and may > just be a pair (or pairs) that are not prone to eating their eggs -- > such as > your pair is. > > I've seen another Angelfish breeder using planted tanks (with > lighting) for > their pairs, even though I don't believe they were Walstad tanks. She just > preferred having the pairs raise their fry, and in a more natural setting. > The "natural setting" part may have been more to her liking rather than to > any preference of the fish, and I do recall she used floating plants, with > low-light plants in the substrate. There's no way of knowing how often her > pairs ate their eggs either until they got used to this environment. Ray > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>, Amber Berglund <amber@...> wrote: > > > > Well the problem is that it's a walstad natural planted tank, so I > > need some lighting for the low light plants (mostly crypts, some java > > fern windelov's, and one sword plant, a large one), and a lot of > > duckweed and floating hornwort. I thought the hornwort would subdue > > the lighting enough, so I need a lot more? LOL. > > I can set the lighting up to the minimum of 8 hours a day, but not > > sure how well the plants will do with no added sunlight (walstad tanks > > are supposed to get more lighting if they don't have added sunlight). > > I will ask on the "el natural" forums about what other breeders do for > > their Angel's I know at least one other person on there has a walstad > > tank for their breeding angel's. > > > > Amber > > > > > Raymond Wetzel wrote: > > > > > > > > > You keep the aquarium lights on during the spawning, egg tending > > > period? This is a no-no as many (most?) domestic pairs will eat > > > their eggs every time. I guess I didn't expect this practice as I > > > just thought that you probably read my posts on here concerning > > > Angelfish breeding -- silly me, I guess I should never have jumped > > > to that conclusion <G>. > > > > > > Since you really don't intend on breeding them anyway, it really > > > doesn't matter, but just be advised that as long as you keep the > > > tank lights burning while the pair have eggs, or fry (especially > > > wrigglers), the chances are not good that the fish will leave the > > > eggs untouched (uneaten). It's not so much that the glaring lighting > > > spooks them, but the bright light all too well increases the fish's > > > natural inclination to eat, when having to be confronted continously > > > by the stimuli of the eggs looking increasingly like a food source > > > when its lit up so brightly as though in a deli-case. Under such > > > conditions, this stimulus overtakes the fish's reproductive instinct > > > at some point. Subdued lighting will not promote such stimuli and > > > the fish are found to retain their reproductive/protective instincts > > > much more firmly. Ray > > > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>, Amber Berglund <amber@> wrote: > > > > > > > > Okay my rabbit breeding Angel's have a piece of slate put over the > > > > intake tube now, I put the tallest one there, hopefully they will > > > > use it. I move the hornwort over to that side of the tank, I > > > > figured > > > because > > > > it had higher lighting maybe that spooked them? I wish they would > > > > have picked the other side though, LOL. > > > > > > > > Amber > > > > > > > > Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > If they like spawning on reeds or other upright stalks of > > > > > plants, > > > why not > > > > > get some 1/2" PVC pipe pieces, paint them greenish colored (with > > > aquarium > > > > > safe paint like 2-part epoxy paint... or maybe one of them new > > > > > Krylon plastic paints that bond with the plastic/PVC... but > > > > > check to make > > > sure > > > > > others have used this with success first) and stand them up in > > > > > the > > > back or > > > > > corners. They would also be easy to remove if you decide to move > > > the eggs > > > > > to another tank for hatching. > > > > > > > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > > > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>>> > > > > > (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on > > > > > the > > > right > > > > > side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by > > > > > Year, > > > Month) > > > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On Behalf Of Raymond > > > > > Wetzel > > > > > Sent: Sunday, July 05, 2009 7:31 PM > > > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Everything is spawning I swear! LOL > > > > > > > > > > There are people who will custom cut spawning slates for Angels. > > > If you > > > > > need a source for longer slates, let me know. I'll see if I can > > > dig up the > > > > > info for someone I used to make me a bunch a couple of years > > > > > ago, > > > hoping > > > > > that they still make them. Ray > > > > > > > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>, Amber Berglund <amber@> > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > I covered the end of the intake tube in several layers of > > > > > > nettting (that you get from a hardware store), I don't know > > > > > > how small it > > > needs > > > > > > to be but it's probably not small enough to protect the fry > > > > > > from > > > being > > > > > sucked up. > > > > > > I can float the inserts in the filter in the tank to help keep > > > > > > the bacteria alive, or I could put them back into another tank > too. > > > > > > I had slate leaning up against next to both sides of the > > > > > > intake > > > filter > > > > > > hoping they might use them, I didn't think to lean the largest > > > > > > one right up against the intake tube, I thought it would block > > > > > > the > > > flow too > > > > > much. > > > > > > Next time I'll try adding more slate to the tank, I had 2 > > > > > > medium > > > sized > > > > > > pieces but I have more in my 125 gallon tank too, and plenty > > > > > outside, LOL. > > > > > > > > > > > > Amber > > > > > > > > > > > > Raymond Wetzel wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Yes, this female is a Veiltail. Since, as I believe your > > > intentions > > > > > > > are to have the pair raise the fry, you'll not be removing > > > > > > > the > > > eggs > > > > > > > you'll then need to shut off the filter in about 6 days > > > > > > > (from the time the eggs were laid). As part of the pair's > > > > > > > pre-spawning behaviorb of cleaning the spawning site, you > > > > > > > should not have been surprised that the filter intake was > > > > > > > chosen -- unless you missed that -- even if there were other > > > > > > > sites they cleaned prior to > > > selecting > > > > > this. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Next time, just lean a spawning slate up against the filter > > > > > > > intake if it reaches, so that the pair has no other choice > > > > > > > but to use the slate if they insist on using that area. At > > > > > > > least this way, you could then leave that slate (w/eggs) in > > > > > > > position, but leaning up against the glass while you > > > > > > > re-position the filter, and intake > > > tube > > > > > > > -- or move the slate a short distance provided they don't > > > > > > > get too > > > > > freaked out by that. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Right now, the eggs will be safe from being drawn up into > > > > > > > the > > > filter > > > > > > > as their adhesion to the tube is fairly strong. After > > > > > > > hatching, which takes about 3 days, this adhesion is still > > > > > > > fairly > > > strong, but > > > > > > > lessens with each proceeding day towards the free-swimming > > > > > > > stage (takes another 3 1/2 to usually closer to 4 days). > > > > > > > You'll need to shut the filter down (or remove the intake > > > > > > > tube from it, > > > moving it a > > > > > > > short > > > > > > > distance) early on the 3rd day to prevent the now > > > > > > > less-adhesive wrigglers from being drawn up into the filter. > > > > > > > As a reminder, complete shut down of the filter will kill > > > > > > > off your nitrifying bacteria unless you supply it with an > > > > > > > airstone. As you can see, it would have been so much less > > > > > > > complicated to have them spawn on a > > > > > slate. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Some other early Angelfish breeders also used 1/2" diameter > > > > > > > glass tubing (then obtained from a neon sign shop). Rigid > > > > > > > plastic tubing may also be used. This is either filled with > > > > > > > green sand and capped off, or painted green inside then > > > > > > > filled with plain sand. Angels prefer using such tubes, > > > > > > > simulating natural reeds, even before > > > using > > > > > > > slates -- but it's usually best to supply them with several, > > > > > > > as large spawns won't fit on one such site. As they appear > "solid" > > > > > > > rather than clear, they'd much prefer to use them before > > > > > > > filter intakes too. Ray > > > > > > > > > > > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>, Amber Berglund > > > <amber@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Okay I just uploaded a correctly rotated photo with just a > > > > > > > > contrast touch up, now you won't have to turn your head to > > > > > > > > look > > > > > at her > > > > > ;) LOL. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Amber > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Amber Berglund wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Did you check out my new photo of my female? She's very > > > pretty I > > > > > > > > > think she's what's called a veil tail? Maybe Ray can > > > > > > > > > tell > > > me for > > > > > > > > > sure, I > > > > > > > like > > > > > > > > > her though. > > > > > > > > > Just posted the photo to my photo album tonight. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife/photos/album/243006836/pic > <http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife/photos/album/243006836/pic> > > > > <http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife/photos/album/243006836/pi > <http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife/photos/album/243006836/pi> > > > c> > > > > > > > > > <http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife/photos/album/243006836/pi > <http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife/photos/album/243006836/pi> > > > c > > > > <http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife/photos/album/243006836/pi > <http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife/photos/album/243006836/pi> > > > c>> > > > > > > > > > > /484754961/view?picmode=&mode=tn&order=ordinal&start=41&count=20&dir > > > > > > > =asc > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > <http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife/photos/album/243006836/pi > <http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife/photos/album/243006836/pi> > > > > <http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife/photos/album/243006836/pi > <http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife/photos/album/243006836/pi> > > > > > > > > > > > > > <http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife/photos/album/243006836/pi > <http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife/photos/album/243006836/pi> > > > > <http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife/photos/album/243006836/pi > <http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife/photos/album/243006836/pi> > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > c/484754961/view?picmode=&mode=tn&order=ordinal&start=41&count=20&di > > > > > > > r=asc> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > <http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife/photos/album/243006836/pi > <http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife/photos/album/243006836/pi> > > > > <http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife/photos/album/243006836/pi > <http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife/photos/album/243006836/pi> > > > > > > > > > > > > > <http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife/photos/album/243006836/pi > <http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife/photos/album/243006836/pi> > > > > <http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife/photos/album/243006836/pi > <http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife/photos/album/243006836/pi> > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > c/484754961/view?picmode=&mode=tn&order=ordinal&start=41&count=20&di > > > > > > > r=asc > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > <http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife/photos/album/243006836/pi > <http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife/photos/album/243006836/pi> > > > > <http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife/photos/album/243006836/pi > <http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife/photos/album/243006836/pi> > > > > > > > > > > > > > <http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife/photos/album/243006836/pi > <http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife/photos/album/243006836/pi> > > > > <http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife/photos/album/243006836/pi > <http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife/photos/album/243006836/pi> > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > c/484754961/view?picmode=&mode=tn&order=ordinal&start=41&count=20&di > > > > > > > r=asc>> > > > > > > > > > And silly me I forgot to rotate it, LOL, I'll get a > > > > > > > > > rotated picture up soon ;) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Amber > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I think your Angelfish are a slightly different > > > > > > > > > > variant than the > > > > > > > normal > > > > > > > > > > species... maybe: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Pterophyllum scalare leporidae > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > > > > > > > > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>> > > > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>>> > > > > > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > > > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>> > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>>>> > > > > > > > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>>> > > > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>> > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>>>>> > > > > > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > > > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>> > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>>> > > > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>> > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>>>> > > > > > > > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>>> > > > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>> > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>>>>>> > > > > > > > > > > (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are > > > listed on > > > > > > > the right > > > > > > > > > > side, alphabetically under Labels and also under > > > > > > > > > > Archives by Year, > > > > > > > > > Month) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > > > > > > > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > > > > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On Behalf Of > > > > > > > > > > Amber Berglund > > > > > > > > > > Sent: Saturday, July 04, 2009 11:01 PM > > > > > > > > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > > > > Subject: [AquaticLife] Everything is spawning I swear! > > > > > > > > > > LOL > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Okay so the Angel's got used to their environment and > > > > > > > > > > apparently > > > > > > > feel > > > > > > > > > > quite > > > > > > > > > > safe, unless I stick my face too close to the tank > > > > > > > > > > then they try to scare me off ;) Good thing I did all > > > > > > > > > > the planting before this ;) I would > > > > > > > have > > > > > > > > > been > > > > > > > > > > dodging Angel's just to plant the plants in the tank > > > > > > > > > > ;) I figure > > > > > > > all the > > > > > > > > > > hornwort makes them feel more secure too. > > > > > > > > > > And of course, out of all the slate I put in the tank > > > > > > > > > > for them, > > > > > > > where do > > > > > > > > > > they lay the eggs? On the filter intake.... LOL. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Amber > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ------------------------------------ > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. > ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> > PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to > the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the > SUBJECT > LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- > <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. > > If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of unsubscribing, you > can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the > home page. > > Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:aquaticlife-digest%40yahoogroups.com> to receive the digest, which > includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email > > Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:aquaticlife-nomail%40yahoogroups.com> for the No E-Mail option > where > you will still be able to read messages on the group and post replies. > > Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:aquaticlife-normal%40yahoogroups.com> to receive individual > e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 41782	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 7/7/2009
Subject: Re: Everything is spawning I swear! LOL

Oh and this is the link to the other person with a walstad angel fish tank. http://www.aquaticplantcentral.com/forumapc/el-natural/62318-55g-low-tech-angel-tank.html Amber Amber Berglund wrote: > > > I can plant a dwarf lilly that will grow floating leaves? The one in the > 125 gallon tank has tanken over half the tank with floating leaves, the > plants under have actually started to grow better, I guess they like > less light (I think they're swords mostly, and one anubias, but there's > one that I'm not sure of, maybe a narrow leaf sword?). > > Amber > > Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > > > > > > Maybe put something to shade that part of the tank from the lighting? If > > you don't have enough floating plants in the area. Since it's the intake > > for an HOB (I think), the return water would likely push floating plants > > away from that area so you may need a piece of your slate or other > > material > > to block the light shining down on that area. > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>> > > (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right > > side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, > Month) > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On > > Behalf Of Raymond Wetzel > > Sent: Tuesday, July 07, 2009 7:49 AM > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Everything is spawning I swear! LOL > > > > Yes, I can see that could be a problem which isn't often encountered > when > > setting up a tank specifically for breeding Angels. I know breeding > Angels > > is not your main concern, and I notice your mention of another Angel > > breeder > > using a Walstad tank set-up, but this is in the minority. Still, it > would > > be interesting to see what they do. > > > > It's not the duration of the lighting that has an effect on them, > but the > > intensity. You could cut the tank lighting back to one hour a day, but > > when > > exposed to that intensity for only a portion of that time, it's often > > enough > > to induce them to eat the eggs. Hopefully, your pair will eventually > > overcome this self-defeating stimulus, and it appears somehow that this > > other "el natural" forum member's fish have gotten past this problem > > (possibly as a result of specific floating plants?). I did say that many > > Angels will eat their eggs under these conditions, but stopped short of > > saying "most" (only questioning that possibility) as I can't verify > such a > > conclusion -- although such behavior is generally expected in domestic > > Angels under such stimuli. > > > > There's a big difference between surface-floating plants such as > Duckweed > > (floating water Sprite is excellent too), and free-floating Hornwort > which > > is suspended in the water column. Fish such as Angels can swim under > > surface floating plants, which will provide some shading from the > > intensity > > of overhead light, but Hornwort grows as a blanket, often 6" o 8" > thick -- > > which does not allow for tall fish to swim under it -- they swim > > around it. > > We'll see what this other person uses for plants, which may shed some > > light > > on the subject (oops, sorry about that pun). Might just be that, that > > person's fish have overcome that egg-eating problem from the start, > > and may > > just be a pair (or pairs) that are not prone to eating their eggs -- > > such as > > your pair is. > > > > I've seen another Angelfish breeder using planted tanks (with > > lighting) for > > their pairs, even though I don't believe they were Walstad tanks. > She just > > preferred having the pairs raise their fry, and in a more natural > setting. > > The "natural setting" part may have been more to her liking rather > than to > > any preference of the fish, and I do recall she used floating > plants, with > > low-light plants in the substrate. There's no way of knowing how > often her > > pairs ate their eggs either until they got used to this environment. Ray > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>, Amber Berglund <amber@...> > wrote: > > > > > > Well the problem is that it's a walstad natural planted tank, so I > > > need some lighting for the low light plants (mostly crypts, some java > > > fern windelov's, and one sword plant, a large one), and a lot of > > > duckweed and floating hornwort. I thought the hornwort would subdue > > > the lighting enough, so I need a lot more? LOL. > > > I can set the lighting up to the minimum of 8 hours a day, but not > > > sure how well the plants will do with no added sunlight (walstad tanks > > > are supposed to get more lighting if they don't have added sunlight). > > > I will ask on the "el natural" forums about what other breeders do for > > > their Angel's I know at least one other person on there has a walstad > > > tank for their breeding angel's. > > > > > > Amber > > > > > > > > Raymond Wetzel wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > You keep the aquarium lights on during the spawning, egg tending > > > > period? This is a no-no as many (most?) domestic pairs will eat > > > > their eggs every time. I guess I didn't expect this practice as I > > > > just thought that you probably read my posts on here concerning > > > > Angelfish breeding -- silly me, I guess I should never have jumped > > > > to that conclusion <G>. > > > > > > > > Since you really don't intend on breeding them anyway, it really > > > > doesn't matter, but just be advised that as long as you keep the > > > > tank lights burning while the pair have eggs, or fry (especially > > > > wrigglers), the chances are not good that the fish will leave the > > > > eggs untouched (uneaten). It's not so much that the glaring lighting > > > > spooks them, but the bright light all too well increases the fish's > > > > natural inclination to eat, when having to be confronted continously > > > > by the stimuli of the eggs looking increasingly like a food source > > > > when its lit up so brightly as though in a deli-case. Under such > > > > conditions, this stimulus overtakes the fish's reproductive instinct > > > > at some point. Subdued lighting will not promote such stimuli and > > > > the fish are found to retain their reproductive/protective instincts > > > > much more firmly. Ray > > > > > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>, Amber Berglund <amber@> > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > Okay my rabbit breeding Angel's have a piece of slate put over the > > > > > intake tube now, I put the tallest one there, hopefully they will > > > > > use it. I move the hornwort over to that side of the tank, I > > > > > figured > > > > because > > > > > it had higher lighting maybe that spooked them? I wish they would > > > > > have picked the other side though, LOL. > > > > > > > > > > Amber > > > > > > > > > > Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > If they like spawning on reeds or other upright stalks of > > > > > > plants, > > > > why not > > > > > > get some 1/2" PVC pipe pieces, paint them greenish colored (with > > > > aquarium > > > > > > safe paint like 2-part epoxy paint... or maybe one of them new > > > > > > Krylon plastic paints that bond with the plastic/PVC... but > > > > > > check to make > > > > sure > > > > > > others have used this with success first) and stand them up in > > > > > > the > > > > back or > > > > > > corners. They would also be easy to remove if you decide to move > > > > the eggs > > > > > > to another tank for hatching. > > > > > > > > > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > > > > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>> > > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>>> > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>> > > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>>>> > > > > > > (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on > > > > > > the > > > > right > > > > > > side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by > > > > > > Year, > > > > Month) > > > > > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > > > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On Behalf Of Raymond > > > > > > Wetzel > > > > > > Sent: Sunday, July 05, 2009 7:31 PM > > > > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Everything is spawning I swear! LOL > > > > > > > > > > > > There are people who will custom cut spawning slates for Angels. > > > > If you > > > > > > need a source for longer slates, let me know. I'll see if I can > > > > dig up the > > > > > > info for someone I used to make me a bunch a couple of years > > > > > > ago, > > > > hoping > > > > > > that they still make them. Ray > > > > > > > > > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>, Amber Berglund <amber@> > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I covered the end of the intake tube in several layers of > > > > > > > nettting (that you get from a hardware store), I don't know > > > > > > > how small it > > > > needs > > > > > > > to be but it's probably not small enough to protect the fry > > > > > > > from > > > > being > > > > > > sucked up. > > > > > > > I can float the inserts in the filter in the tank to help keep > > > > > > > the bacteria alive, or I could put them back into another tank > > too. > > > > > > > I had slate leaning up against next to both sides of the > > > > > > > intake > > > > filter > > > > > > > hoping they might use them, I didn't think to lean the largest > > > > > > > one right up against the intake tube, I thought it would block > > > > > > > the > > > > flow too > > > > > > much. > > > > > > > Next time I'll try adding more slate to the tank, I had 2 > > > > > > > medium > > > > sized > > > > > > > pieces but I have more in my 125 gallon tank too, and plenty > > > > > > outside, LOL. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Amber > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Raymond Wetzel wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Yes, this female is a Veiltail. Since, as I believe your > > > > intentions > > > > > > > > are to have the pair raise the fry, you'll not be removing > > > > > > > > the > > > > eggs > > > > > > > > you'll then need to shut off the filter in about 6 days > > > > > > > > (from the time the eggs were laid). As part of the pair's > > > > > > > > pre-spawning behaviorb of cleaning the spawning site, you > > > > > > > > should not have been surprised that the filter intake was > > > > > > > > chosen -- unless you missed that -- even if there were other > > > > > > > > sites they cleaned prior to > > > > selecting > > > > > > this. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Next time, just lean a spawning slate up against the filter > > > > > > > > intake if it reaches, so that the pair has no other choice > > > > > > > > but to use the slate if they insist on using that area. At > > > > > > > > least this way, you could then leave that slate (w/eggs) in > > > > > > > > position, but leaning up against the glass while you > > > > > > > > re-position the filter, and intake > > > > tube > > > > > > > > -- or move the slate a short distance provided they don't > > > > > > > > get too > > > > > > freaked out by that. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Right now, the eggs will be safe from being drawn up into > > > > > > > > the > > > > filter > > > > > > > > as their adhesion to the tube is fairly strong. After > > > > > > > > hatching, which takes about 3 days, this adhesion is still > > > > > > > > fairly > > > > strong, but > > > > > > > > lessens with each proceeding day towards the free-swimming > > > > > > > > stage (takes another 3 1/2 to usually closer to 4 days). > > > > > > > > You'll need to shut the filter down (or remove the intake > > > > > > > > tube from it, > > > > moving it a > > > > > > > > short > > > > > > > > distance) early on the 3rd day to prevent the now > > > > > > > > less-adhesive wrigglers from being drawn up into the filter. > > > > > > > > As a reminder, complete shut down of the filter will kill > > > > > > > > off your nitrifying bacteria unless you supply it with an > > > > > > > > airstone. As you can see, it would have been so much less > > > > > > > > complicated to have them spawn on a > > > > > > slate. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Some other early Angelfish breeders also used 1/2" diameter > > > > > > > > glass tubing (then obtained from a neon sign shop). Rigid > > > > > > > > plastic tubing may also be used. This is either filled with > > > > > > > > green sand and capped off, or painted green inside then > > > > > > > > filled with plain sand. Angels prefer using such tubes, > > > > > > > > simulating natural reeds, even before > > > > using > > > > > > > > slates -- but it's usually best to supply them with several, > > > > > > > > as large spawns won't fit on one such site. As they appear > > "solid" > > > > > > > > rather than clear, they'd much prefer to use them before > > > > > > > > filter intakes too. Ray > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>, Amber Berglund > > > > <amber@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Okay I just uploaded a correctly rotated photo with just a > > > > > > > > > contrast touch up, now you won't have to turn your head to > > > > > > > > > look > > > > > > at her > > > > > > ;) LOL. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Amber > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Amber Berglund wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Did you check out my new photo of my female? She's very > > > > pretty I > > > > > > > > > > think she's what's called a veil tail? Maybe Ray can > > > > > > > > > > tell > > > > me for > > > > > > > > > > sure, I > > > > > > > > like > > > > > > > > > > her though. > > > > > > > > > > Just posted the photo to my photo album tonight. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife/photos/album/243006836/pic > <http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife/photos/album/243006836/pic> > > > <http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife/photos/album/243006836/pic > <http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife/photos/album/243006836/pic>> > > > > > > <http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife/photos/album/243006836/pi > <http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife/photos/album/243006836/pi> > > <http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife/photos/album/243006836/pi > <http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife/photos/album/243006836/pi>> > > > > c> > > > > > > > > > > > > <http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife/photos/album/243006836/pi > <http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife/photos/album/243006836/pi> > > <http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife/photos/album/243006836/pi > <http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife/photos/album/243006836/pi>> > > > > c > > > > > > <http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife/photos/album/243006836/pi > <http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife/photos/album/243006836/pi> > > <http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife/photos/album/243006836/pi > <http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife/photos/album/243006836/pi>> > > > > c>> > > > > > > > > > > > > /484754961/view?picmode=&mode=tn&order=ordinal&start=41&count=20&dir > > > > > > > > =asc > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > <http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife/photos/album/243006836/pi > <http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife/photos/album/243006836/pi> > > <http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife/photos/album/243006836/pi > <http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife/photos/album/243006836/pi>> > > > > > > <http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife/photos/album/243006836/pi > <http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife/photos/album/243006836/pi> > > <http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife/photos/album/243006836/pi > <http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife/photos/album/243006836/pi>> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > <http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife/photos/album/243006836/pi > <http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife/photos/album/243006836/pi> > > <http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife/photos/album/243006836/pi > <http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife/photos/album/243006836/pi>> > > > > > > <http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife/photos/album/243006836/pi > <http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife/photos/album/243006836/pi> > > <http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife/photos/album/243006836/pi > <http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife/photos/album/243006836/pi>> > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > c/484754961/view?picmode=&mode=tn&order=ordinal&start=41&count=20&di > > > > > > > > r=asc> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > <http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife/photos/album/243006836/pi > <http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife/photos/album/243006836/pi> > > <http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife/photos/album/243006836/pi > <http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife/photos/album/243006836/pi>> > > > > > > <http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife/photos/album/243006836/pi > <http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife/photos/album/243006836/pi> > > <http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife/photos/album/243006836/pi > <http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife/photos/album/243006836/pi>> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > <http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife/photos/album/243006836/pi > <http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife/photos/album/243006836/pi> > > <http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife/photos/album/243006836/pi > <http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife/photos/album/243006836/pi>> > > > > > > <http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife/photos/album/243006836/pi > <http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife/photos/album/243006836/pi> > > <http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife/photos/album/243006836/pi > <http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife/photos/album/243006836/pi>> > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > c/484754961/view?picmode=&mode=tn&order=ordinal&start=41&count=20&di > > > > > > > > r=asc > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > <http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife/photos/album/243006836/pi > <http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife/photos/album/243006836/pi> > > <http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife/photos/album/243006836/pi > <http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife/photos/album/243006836/pi>> > > > > > > <http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife/photos/album/243006836/pi > <http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife/photos/album/243006836/pi> > > <http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife/photos/album/243006836/pi > <http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife/photos/album/243006836/pi>> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > <http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife/photos/album/243006836/pi > <http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife/photos/album/243006836/pi> > > <http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife/photos/album/243006836/pi > <http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife/photos/album/243006836/pi>> > > > > > > <http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife/photos/album/243006836/pi > <http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife/photos/album/243006836/pi> > > <http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife/photos/album/243006836/pi > <http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife/photos/album/243006836/pi>> > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > c/484754961/view?picmode=&mode=tn&order=ordinal&start=41&count=20&di > > > > > > > > r=asc>> > > > > > > > > > > And silly me I forgot to rotate it, LOL, I'll get a > > > > > > > > > > rotated picture up soon ;) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Amber > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I think your Angelfish are a slightly different > > > > > > > > > > > variant than the > > > > > > > > normal > > > > > > > > > > > species... maybe: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Pterophyllum scalare leporidae > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > > > > > > > > > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>> > > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>>> > > > > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>> > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>>>> > > > > > > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>> > > > > > > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>>> > > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>> > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>>>>> > > > > > > > > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>> > > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>>> > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>> > > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>>>> > > > > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>> > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>>> > > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>> > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>>>>>> > > > > > > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>> > > > > > > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>>> > > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>> > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>>>> > > > > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>> > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>>> > > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>> > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>>>>> > > > > > > > > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>> > > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>>> > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>> > > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>>>> > > > > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>> > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>>> > > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>> > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>>>>>>> > > > > > > > > > > > (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are > > > > listed on > > > > > > > > the right > > > > > > > > > > > side, alphabetically under Labels and also under > > > > > > > > > > > Archives by Year, > > > > > > > > > > Month) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > > > > > > > > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > > > > > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On Behalf Of > > > > > > > > > > > Amber Berglund > > > > > > > > > > > Sent: Saturday, July 04, 2009 11:01 PM > > > > > > > > > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > > > > > Subject: [AquaticLife] Everything is spawning I swear! > > > > > > > > > > > LOL > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Okay so the Angel's got used to their environment and > > > > > > > > > > > apparently > > > > > > > > feel > > > > > > > > > > > quite > > > > > > > > > > > safe, unless I stick my face too close to the tank > > > > > > > > > > > then they try to scare me off ;) Good thing I did all > > > > > > > > > > > the planting before this ;) I would > > > > > > > > have > > > > > > > > > > been > > > > > > > > > > > dodging Angel's just to plant the plants in the tank > > > > > > > > > > > ;) I figure > > > > > > > > all the > > > > > > > > > > > hornwort makes them feel more secure too. > > > > > > > > > > > And of course, out of all the slate I put in the tank > > > > > > > > > > > for them, > > > > > > > > where do > > > > > > > > > > > they lay the eggs? On the filter intake.... LOL. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Amber > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ------------------------------------ > > > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, > Thank You. > > ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> > > PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT > important to > > the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the > > SUBJECT > > LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- > > <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. > > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. > > > > If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of > unsubscribing, you > > can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My Membership" > on the > > home page. > > > > Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:aquaticlife-digest%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:aquaticlife-digest%40yahoogroups.com> to receive the digest, > which > > includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email > > > > Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:aquaticlife-nomail%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:aquaticlife-nomail%40yahoogroups.com> for the No E-Mail option > > where > > you will still be able to read messages on the group and post replies. > > > > Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:aquaticlife-normal%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:aquaticlife-normal%40yahoogroups.com> to receive individual > > e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 41783	From: greychildren	Date: 7/7/2009
Subject: Items for trade

Hi gang i have several items i will like to trade for aquarium rocks, and fish(slate,white color,texas hole rock, coral rock) here a list of items in willing to trade. 1.Eclipse filter 3 packs K and C size quantity 5 2.Eclipse single light bulb 3.Optimus X-lrg Air pumps with ajustable knobs amount 5 used 4.uknown brand dual air pump X-large amount 2 5.A bang of T air conectors 6. Undergravel setups topfin 1 new with carbon filters new 2 used for 20g tanks i think Im in the south Florida area if any one is interested email me

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 41784	From: Gail	Date: 7/7/2009
Subject: Re: What happened?

I truly hope your Yabby was just molting! Best of luck! -gail --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@...> wrote: > > Was the shell hard? I'm guessing it was or you would have likely mentioned > it was soft. > > It's unusual for there to be 0.0ppm for nitrate as that is the end product > of the nitrogen cycle (ammonia>nitrite>nitrate). Double check your tests > for ammonia, nitrite and nitrate. What brand/type of test kit do you use? > You mention that ammonia is at a "safe level" but the only really safe level > for ammonia is 0.0ppm. If you are getting any kind of ammonia reading, then > it means you have cycling issues (The Nitrogen Cycle) which would also > explain the 0.0 reading for nitrate. > > Also, what is your pH and KH? Giving us numbers is a lot better for us to > try and figure things out. > > As far as the left arm being broken... what do you mean? Was it just limp > or was one of the joints actually broken? I'm presuming it was the left > main claw? > > I know you mentioned that it was digging under a piece of wood or rock or > something recently and hiding in the burrowed area. Do you see where > anything could have caved in? > > Ohh.. one other BIG thing. Is it definitely the FULL crawfish and not just > the shell? When they molt, they will crawl out of the bottom of their shell > as a soft critter and go into hiding and leave their old shell just sitting > there. Many folks have been fooled into thinking their crawfish or shrimp > died when it really just molted and is in hiding until the new shell gets > hard enough. > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right > side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) > > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On > Behalf Of Lisa > Sent: Tuesday, July 07, 2009 2:08 AM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Subject: [AquaticLife] What happened? > > My yabby died :( > I checked the water for niterite and niterate and both were 0ppm. > Ammonia is also at a safe level. > PH stays stable as well as KH. > And all other tamk inhabitants are still alive and swimming with no signs of > illness. > > When i removed her from the tank. Her left arm appeared to be broken :( So i > don't know what's happened to her. > > Lisa >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 41785	From: Gail	Date: 7/7/2009
Subject: Re: Bolivian Ram

Do you think one would work out in a 20 gallon? Its a tall 20 gallon, not a long 20 gallon thanks, gail --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Byron" <bhosking@...> wrote: > > As previous responders have noted, these are not appropriate fish for a 10g unless only one is kept. Unless you can move them to larger quarters, I would see if the store will take one (or both if you decide) back. This species is best kept as a single fish unless there is a lot of space. > > In their natural habitat (the Rio Mamore basin in SA) Mikrogeophagus altispinosa are found as lone individuals and it is believed that apart from spawning periods they live in isolation. Except when spawning, they rarely bother other fish in the aquarium, but as you have found out they are quite territorial with their own kind. I have a single specimen in my 90g with about 100 other small fish (characins, corys) and have never observed any aggression towards the other fish, other than slight annoyance once in a while at the persistence of the corys when tablet food is on the substrate; the Bolivian ram constantly searches the substrate for food. This is certainly a beautiful cichlid. > > In such a small environment I would not leave two of them together, as it is quite likely that the one that is harassed will be very stressed and sucumb to disease or poor health. > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "footprint145" <footprint145@> wrote: > > > > Hi aquarium enthusiast! I am new to the group, but not to the hobby. Started many moons ago w/ typical comm. tank (guppies, mollies, etc.) > > I just started a 10G tank and was always interested in the Dwarf Cich. group - particularly RAMS!! I acquired 2 Bol.Rams and hoped to have sexed pair. NO luck! Anyway, the one dominant fish is constantly harassing the other to the point the harassed fish is getting little to eat. Should I be concerned, in such a small tank, or do you think time will weary the KING! > > > > Thanks, any info would be great! > > Allen > > > > P.S. I now have them bout 3 weeks > > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 41786	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 7/7/2009
Subject: Re: Okay so far I've only lost 1 of my new fish

I ordered 10 so I should get at least one girl, LOL. I'm just hoping that 3 days travel doesn't do too much damage, I was off a day and thought they would be here today, but they will actually be here tomorrow afternoon. Hopefully that doesn't matter too much, brigs (mystery snails) can breathe air as well as through the water column right? Amber Gwydryn@... wrote: > > > > > In a message dated 7/6/2009 4:55:13 P.M. Central Daylight Time, > amber@... <mailto:amber%40rose-fields.com> writes: > > Okay so far only one loss on my fish order, and it was one of the > bleeding hearts. I noticed when I was adding them to the tank that one > of them seemed a bit sluggish, I figure it's probably that one that I > lost. > Either way 1 out of 16 fish isn't too bad of a loss ratio. > I plan on ordering from the same person again in the future. > Oh and the snails will be here tomorrow, I'll be sure to take pictures > and show off the cute little guys/gals LOL. > > Amber > > best of luck with the snails! I got 4, hoping for at least one > girl....nothing, nada, not a single egg case....and I have had them > for 2 months, and > they are getting plenty of fresh veggies.... Guess I have to go back > to the > LFS and get 3 more and hope I get one this time. > Enid > > "Life is not about waiting for the storms to pass...it's about learning > how to dance in the rain." > **************An Excellent Credit Score is 750. See Yours in Just 2 Easy > Steps! > (http://pr.atwola.com/promoclk/100126575x1222585089x1201462806/aol?redir=http://www.freecreditreport.com/pm/default.aspx?sc=668072&hmpgID=62&bcd=Jul > <http://pr.atwola.com/promoclk/100126575x1222585089x1201462806/aol?redir=http://www.freecreditreport.com/pm/default.aspx?sc=668072&hmpgID=62&bcd=Jul> > yExcfooterNO62) > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 41787	From: Raymond Wetzel	Date: 7/7/2009
Subject: Re: Everything is spawning I swear! LOL

That could work! Ray --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, Amber Berglund <amber@...> wrote: > > I can plant a dwarf lilly that will grow floating leaves? The one in the > 125 gallon tank has tanken over half the tank with floating leaves, the > plants under have actually started to grow better, I guess they like > less light (I think they're swords mostly, and one anubias, but there's > one that I'm not sure of, maybe a narrow leaf sword?). > > Amber > > Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > > > > > > Maybe put something to shade that part of the tank from the lighting? If > > you don't have enough floating plants in the area. Since it's the intake > > for an HOB (I think), the return water would likely push floating plants > > away from that area so you may need a piece of your slate or other > > material > > to block the light shining down on that area. > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right > > side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On > > Behalf Of Raymond Wetzel > > Sent: Tuesday, July 07, 2009 7:49 AM > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Everything is spawning I swear! LOL > > > > Yes, I can see that could be a problem which isn't often encountered when > > setting up a tank specifically for breeding Angels. I know breeding Angels > > is not your main concern, and I notice your mention of another Angel > > breeder > > using a Walstad tank set-up, but this is in the minority. Still, it would > > be interesting to see what they do. > > > > It's not the duration of the lighting that has an effect on them, but the > > intensity. You could cut the tank lighting back to one hour a day, but > > when > > exposed to that intensity for only a portion of that time, it's often > > enough > > to induce them to eat the eggs. Hopefully, your pair will eventually > > overcome this self-defeating stimulus, and it appears somehow that this > > other "el natural" forum member's fish have gotten past this problem > > (possibly as a result of specific floating plants?). I did say that many > > Angels will eat their eggs under these conditions, but stopped short of > > saying "most" (only questioning that possibility) as I can't verify such a > > conclusion -- although such behavior is generally expected in domestic > > Angels under such stimuli. > > > > There's a big difference between surface-floating plants such as Duckweed > > (floating water Sprite is excellent too), and free-floating Hornwort which > > is suspended in the water column. Fish such as Angels can swim under > > surface floating plants, which will provide some shading from the > > intensity > > of overhead light, but Hornwort grows as a blanket, often 6" o 8" thick -- > > which does not allow for tall fish to swim under it -- they swim > > around it. > > We'll see what this other person uses for plants, which may shed some > > light > > on the subject (oops, sorry about that pun). Might just be that, that > > person's fish have overcome that egg-eating problem from the start, > > and may > > just be a pair (or pairs) that are not prone to eating their eggs -- > > such as > > your pair is. > > > > I've seen another Angelfish breeder using planted tanks (with > > lighting) for > > their pairs, even though I don't believe they were Walstad tanks. She just > > preferred having the pairs raise their fry, and in a more natural setting. > > The "natural setting" part may have been more to her liking rather than to > > any preference of the fish, and I do recall she used floating plants, with > > low-light plants in the substrate. There's no way of knowing how often her > > pairs ate their eggs either until they got used to this environment. Ray > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>, Amber Berglund <amber@> wrote: > > > > > > Well the problem is that it's a walstad natural planted tank, so I > > > need some lighting for the low light plants (mostly crypts, some java > > > fern windelov's, and one sword plant, a large one), and a lot of > > > duckweed and floating hornwort. I thought the hornwort would subdue > > > the lighting enough, so I need a lot more? LOL. > > > I can set the lighting up to the minimum of 8 hours a day, but not > > > sure how well the plants will do with no added sunlight (walstad tanks > > > are supposed to get more lighting if they don't have added sunlight). > > > I will ask on the "el natural" forums about what other breeders do for > > > their Angel's I know at least one other person on there has a walstad > > > tank for their breeding angel's. > > > > > > Amber > > > > > > > > Raymond Wetzel wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > You keep the aquarium lights on during the spawning, egg tending > > > > period? This is a no-no as many (most?) domestic pairs will eat > > > > their eggs every time. I guess I didn't expect this practice as I > > > > just thought that you probably read my posts on here concerning > > > > Angelfish breeding -- silly me, I guess I should never have jumped > > > > to that conclusion <G>. > > > > > > > > Since you really don't intend on breeding them anyway, it really > > > > doesn't matter, but just be advised that as long as you keep the > > > > tank lights burning while the pair have eggs, or fry (especially > > > > wrigglers), the chances are not good that the fish will leave the > > > > eggs untouched (uneaten). It's not so much that the glaring lighting > > > > spooks them, but the bright light all too well increases the fish's > > > > natural inclination to eat, when having to be confronted continously > > > > by the stimuli of the eggs looking increasingly like a food source > > > > when its lit up so brightly as though in a deli-case. Under such > > > > conditions, this stimulus overtakes the fish's reproductive instinct > > > > at some point. Subdued lighting will not promote such stimuli and > > > > the fish are found to retain their reproductive/protective instincts > > > > much more firmly. Ray > > > > > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>, Amber Berglund <amber@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > Okay my rabbit breeding Angel's have a piece of slate put over the > > > > > intake tube now, I put the tallest one there, hopefully they will > > > > > use it. I move the hornwort over to that side of the tank, I > > > > > figured > > > > because > > > > > it had higher lighting maybe that spooked them? I wish they would > > > > > have picked the other side though, LOL. > > > > > > > > > > Amber > > > > > > > > > > Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > If they like spawning on reeds or other upright stalks of > > > > > > plants, > > > > why not > > > > > > get some 1/2" PVC pipe pieces, paint them greenish colored (with > > > > aquarium > > > > > > safe paint like 2-part epoxy paint... or maybe one of them new > > > > > > Krylon plastic paints that bond with the plastic/PVC... but > > > > > > check to make > > > > sure > > > > > > others have used this with success first) and stand them up in > > > > > > the > > > > back or > > > > > > corners. They would also be easy to remove if you decide to move > > > > the eggs > > > > > > to another tank for hatching. > > > > > > > > > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > > > > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>> > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>>> > > > > > > (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on > > > > > > the > > > > right > > > > > > side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by > > > > > > Year, > > > > Month) > > > > > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > > > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On Behalf Of Raymond > > > > > > Wetzel > > > > > > Sent: Sunday, July 05, 2009 7:31 PM > > > > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Everything is spawning I swear! LOL > > > > > > > > > > > > There are people who will custom cut spawning slates for Angels. > > > > If you > > > > > > need a source for longer slates, let me know. I'll see if I can > > > > dig up the > > > > > > info for someone I used to make me a bunch a couple of years > > > > > > ago, > > > > hoping > > > > > > that they still make them. Ray > > > > > > > > > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>, Amber Berglund <amber@> > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I covered the end of the intake tube in several layers of > > > > > > > nettting (that you get from a hardware store), I don't know > > > > > > > how small it > > > > needs > > > > > > > to be but it's probably not small enough to protect the fry > > > > > > > from > > > > being > > > > > > sucked up. > > > > > > > I can float the inserts in the filter in the tank to help keep > > > > > > > the bacteria alive, or I could put them back into another tank > > too. > > > > > > > I had slate leaning up against next to both sides of the > > > > > > > intake > > > > filter > > > > > > > hoping they might use them, I didn't think to lean the largest > > > > > > > one right up against the intake tube, I thought it would block > > > > > > > the > > > > flow too > > > > > > much. > > > > > > > Next time I'll try adding more slate to the tank, I had 2 > > > > > > > medium > > > > sized > > > > > > > pieces but I have more in my 125 gallon tank too, and plenty > > > > > > outside, LOL. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Amber > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Raymond Wetzel wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Yes, this female is a Veiltail. Since, as I believe your > > > > intentions > > > > > > > > are to have the pair raise the fry, you'll not be removing > > > > > > > > the > > > > eggs > > > > > > > > you'll then need to shut off the filter in about 6 days > > > > > > > > (from the time the eggs were laid). As part of the pair's > > > > > > > > pre-spawning behaviorb of cleaning the spawning site, you > > > > > > > > should not have been surprised that the filter intake was > > > > > > > > chosen -- unless you missed that -- even if there were other > > > > > > > > sites they cleaned prior to > > > > selecting > > > > > > this. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Next time, just lean a spawning slate up against the filter > > > > > > > > intake if it reaches, so that the pair has no other choice > > > > > > > > but to use the slate if they insist on using that area. At > > > > > > > > least this way, you could then leave that slate (w/eggs) in > > > > > > > > position, but leaning up against the glass while you > > > > > > > > re-position the filter, and intake > > > > tube > > > > > > > > -- or move the slate a short distance provided they don't > > > > > > > > get too > > > > > > freaked out by that. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Right now, the eggs will be safe from being drawn up into > > > > > > > > the > > > > filter > > > > > > > > as their adhesion to the tube is fairly strong. After > > > > > > > > hatching, which takes about 3 days, this adhesion is still > > > > > > > > fairly > > > > strong, but > > > > > > > > lessens with each proceeding day towards the free-swimming > > > > > > > > stage (takes another 3 1/2 to usually closer to 4 days). > > > > > > > > You'll need to shut the filter down (or remove the intake > > > > > > > > tube from it, > > > > moving it a > > > > > > > > short > > > > > > > > distance) early on the 3rd day to prevent the now > > > > > > > > less-adhesive wrigglers from being drawn up into the filter. > > > > > > > > As a reminder, complete shut down of the filter will kill > > > > > > > > off your nitrifying bacteria unless you supply it with an > > > > > > > > airstone. As you can see, it would have been so much less > > > > > > > > complicated to have them spawn on a > > > > > > slate. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Some other early Angelfish breeders also used 1/2" diameter > > > > > > > > glass tubing (then obtained from a neon sign shop). Rigid > > > > > > > > plastic tubing may also be used. This is either filled with > > > > > > > > green sand and capped off, or painted green inside then > > > > > > > > filled with plain sand. Angels prefer using such tubes, > > > > > > > > simulating natural reeds, even before > > > > using > > > > > > > > slates -- but it's usually best to supply them with several, > > > > > > > > as large spawns won't fit on one such site. As they appear > > "solid" > > > > > > > > rather than clear, they'd much prefer to use them before > > > > > > > > filter intakes too. Ray > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>, Amber Berglund > > > > <amber@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Okay I just uploaded a correctly rotated photo with just a > > > > > > > > > contrast touch up, now you won't have to turn your head to > > > > > > > > > look > > > > > > at her > > > > > > ;) LOL. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Amber > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Amber Berglund wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Did you check out my new photo of my female? She's very > > > > pretty I > > > > > > > > > > think she's what's called a veil tail? Maybe Ray can > > > > > > > > > > tell > > > > me for > > > > > > > > > > sure, I > > > > > > > > like > > > > > > > > > > her though. > > > > > > > > > > Just posted the photo to my photo album tonight. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife/photos/album/243006836/pic > > <http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife/photos/album/243006836/pic> > > > > > > <http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife/photos/album/243006836/pi > > <http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife/photos/album/243006836/pi> > > > > c> > > > > > > > > > > > > <http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife/photos/album/243006836/pi > > <http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife/photos/album/243006836/pi> > > > > c > > > > > > <http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife/photos/album/243006836/pi > > <http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife/photos/album/243006836/pi> > > > > c>> > > > > > > > > > > > > /484754961/view?picmode=&mode=tn&order=ordinal&start=41&count=20&dir > > > > > > > > =asc > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > <http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife/photos/album/243006836/pi > > <http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife/photos/album/243006836/pi> > > > > > > <http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife/photos/album/243006836/pi > > <http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife/photos/album/243006836/pi> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > <http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife/photos/album/243006836/pi > > <http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife/photos/album/243006836/pi> > > > > > > <http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife/photos/album/243006836/pi > > <http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife/photos/album/243006836/pi> > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > c/484754961/view?picmode=&mode=tn&order=ordinal&start=41&count=20&di > > > > > > > > r=asc> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > <http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife/photos/album/243006836/pi > > <http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife/photos/album/243006836/pi> > > > > > > <http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife/photos/album/243006836/pi > > <http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife/photos/album/243006836/pi> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > <http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife/photos/album/243006836/pi > > <http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife/photos/album/243006836/pi> > > > > > > <http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife/photos/album/243006836/pi > > <http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife/photos/album/243006836/pi> > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > c/484754961/view?picmode=&mode=tn&order=ordinal&start=41&count=20&di > > > > > > > > r=asc > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > <http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife/photos/album/243006836/pi > > <http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife/photos/album/243006836/pi> > > > > > > <http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife/photos/album/243006836/pi > > <http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife/photos/album/243006836/pi> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > <http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife/photos/album/243006836/pi > > <http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife/photos/album/243006836/pi> > > > > > > <http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife/photos/album/243006836/pi > > <http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife/photos/album/243006836/pi> > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > c/484754961/view?picmode=&mode=tn&order=ordinal&start=41&count=20&di > > > > > > > > r=asc>> > > > > > > > > > > And silly me I forgot to rotate it, LOL, I'll get a > > > > > > > > > > rotated picture up soon ;) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Amber > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I think your Angelfish are a slightly different > > > > > > > > > > > variant than the > > > > > > > > normal > > > > > > > > > > > species... maybe: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Pterophyllum scalare leporidae > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > > > > > > > > > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>> > > > > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>>> > > > > > > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > > > > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>> > > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>>>> > > > > > > > > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>> > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>>> > > > > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>> > > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>>>>> > > > > > > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > > > > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>> > > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>>> > > > > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>> > > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>>>> > > > > > > > > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>> > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>>> > > > > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>> > > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>>>>>> > > > > > > > > > > > (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are > > > > listed on > > > > > > > > the right > > > > > > > > > > > side, alphabetically under Labels and also under > > > > > > > > > > > Archives by Year, > > > > > > > > > > Month) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > > > > > > > > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > > > > > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On Behalf Of > > > > > > > > > > > Amber Berglund > > > > > > > > > > > Sent: Saturday, July 04, 2009 11:01 PM > > > > > > > > > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > > > > > Subject: [AquaticLife] Everything is spawning I swear! > > > > > > > > > > > LOL > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Okay so the Angel's got used to their environment and > > > > > > > > > > > apparently > > > > > > > > feel > > > > > > > > > > > quite > > > > > > > > > > > safe, unless I stick my face too close to the tank > > > > > > > > > > > then they try to scare me off ;) Good thing I did all > > > > > > > > > > > the planting before this ;) I would > > > > > > > > have > > > > > > > > > > been > > > > > > > > > > > dodging Angel's just to plant the plants in the tank > > > > > > > > > > > ;) I figure > > > > > > > > all the > > > > > > > > > > > hornwort makes them feel more secure too. > > > > > > > > > > > And of course, out of all the slate I put in the tank > > > > > > > > > > > for them, > > > > > > > > where do > > > > > > > > > > > they lay the eggs? On the filter intake.... LOL. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Amber > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ------------------------------------ > > > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. > > ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> > > PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to > > the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the > > SUBJECT > > LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- > > <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. > > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. > > > > If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of unsubscribing, you > > can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the > > home page. > > > > Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com > > <mailto:aquaticlife-digest%40yahoogroups.com> to receive the digest, which > > includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email > > > > Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com > > <mailto:aquaticlife-nomail%40yahoogroups.com> for the No E-Mail option > > where > > you will still be able to read messages on the group and post replies. > > > > Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com > > <mailto:aquaticlife-normal%40yahoogroups.com> to receive individual > > e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 41788	From: biG poppa	Date: 7/7/2009
Subject: Re: Everything is spawning I swear! LOL

Amber hiya I think some froglip will work also..... --- On Tue, 7/7/09, Raymond Wetzel <sevenspringss@...> wrote: From: Raymond Wetzel <sevenspringss@...> Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Everything is spawning I swear! LOL To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Date: Tuesday, July 7, 2009, 6:23 PM That could work! Ray --- In AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com, Amber Berglund <amber@...> wrote: > > I can plant a dwarf lilly that will grow floating leaves? The one in the > 125 gallon tank has tanken over half the tank with floating leaves, the > plants under have actually started to grow better, I guess they like > less light (I think they're swords mostly, and one anubias, but there's > one that I'm not sure of, maybe a narrow leaf sword?). > > Amber > > Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > > > > > > Maybe put something to shade that part of the tank from the lighting? If > > you don't have enough floating plants in the area. Since it's the intake > > for an HOB (I think), the return water would likely push floating plants > > away from that area so you may need a piece of your slate or other > > material > > to block the light shining down on that area. > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com <http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com> > > (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right > > side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com > > <mailto:AquaticLife %40yahoogroups. com> > > [mailto:AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com > > <mailto:AquaticLife %40yahoogroups. com>] On > > Behalf Of Raymond Wetzel > > Sent: Tuesday, July 07, 2009 7:49 AM > > To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com <mailto:AquaticLife %40yahoogroups. com> > > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Everything is spawning I swear! LOL > > > > Yes, I can see that could be a problem which isn't often encountered when > > setting up a tank specifically for breeding Angels. I know breeding Angels > > is not your main concern, and I notice your mention of another Angel > > breeder > > using a Walstad tank set-up, but this is in the minority. Still, it would > > be interesting to see what they do. > > > > It's not the duration of the lighting that has an effect on them, but the > > intensity. You could cut the tank lighting back to one hour a day, but > > when > > exposed to that intensity for only a portion of that time, it's often > > enough > > to induce them to eat the eggs. Hopefully, your pair will eventually > > overcome this self-defeating stimulus, and it appears somehow that this > > other "el natural" forum member's fish have gotten past this problem > > (possibly as a result of specific floating plants?). I did say that many > > Angels will eat their eggs under these conditions, but stopped short of > > saying "most" (only questioning that possibility) as I can't verify such a > > conclusion -- although such behavior is generally expected in domestic > > Angels under such stimuli. > > > > There's a big difference between surface-floating plants such as Duckweed > > (floating water Sprite is excellent too), and free-floating Hornwort which > > is suspended in the water column. Fish such as Angels can swim under > > surface floating plants, which will provide some shading from the > > intensity > > of overhead light, but Hornwort grows as a blanket, often 6" o 8" thick -- > > which does not allow for tall fish to swim under it -- they swim > > around it. > > We'll see what this other person uses for plants, which may shed some > > light > > on the subject (oops, sorry about that pun). Might just be that, that > > person's fish have overcome that egg-eating problem from the start, > > and may > > just be a pair (or pairs) that are not prone to eating their eggs -- > > such as > > your pair is. > > > > I've seen another Angelfish breeder using planted tanks (with > > lighting) for > > their pairs, even though I don't believe they were Walstad tanks. She just > > preferred having the pairs raise their fry, and in a more natural setting. > > The "natural setting" part may have been more to her liking rather than to > > any preference of the fish, and I do recall she used floating plants, with > > low-light plants in the substrate. There's no way of knowing how often her > > pairs ate their eggs either until they got used to this environment. Ray > > > > --- In AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com > > <mailto:AquaticLife %40yahoogroups. com>, Amber Berglund <amber@> wrote: > > > > > > Well the problem is that it's a walstad natural planted tank, so I > > > need some lighting for the low light plants (mostly crypts, some java > > > fern windelov's, and one sword plant, a large one), and a lot of > > > duckweed and floating hornwort. I thought the hornwort would subdue > > > the lighting enough, so I need a lot more? LOL. > > > I can set the lighting up to the minimum of 8 hours a day, but not > > > sure how well the plants will do with no added sunlight (walstad tanks > > > are supposed to get more lighting if they don't have added sunlight). > > > I will ask on the "el natural" forums about what other breeders do for > > > their Angel's I know at least one other person on there has a walstad > > > tank for their breeding angel's. > > > > > > Amber > > > > > > > > Raymond Wetzel wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > You keep the aquarium lights on during the spawning, egg tending > > > > period? This is a no-no as many (most?) domestic pairs will eat > > > > their eggs every time. I guess I didn't expect this practice as I > > > > just thought that you probably read my posts on here concerning > > > > Angelfish breeding -- silly me, I guess I should never have jumped > > > > to that conclusion <G>. > > > > > > > > Since you really don't intend on breeding them anyway, it really > > > > doesn't matter, but just be advised that as long as you keep the > > > > tank lights burning while the pair have eggs, or fry (especially > > > > wrigglers), the chances are not good that the fish will leave the > > > > eggs untouched (uneaten). It's not so much that the glaring lighting > > > > spooks them, but the bright light all too well increases the fish's > > > > natural inclination to eat, when having to be confronted continously > > > > by the stimuli of the eggs looking increasingly like a food source > > > > when its lit up so brightly as though in a deli-case. Under such > > > > conditions, this stimulus overtakes the fish's reproductive instinct > > > > at some point. Subdued lighting will not promote such stimuli and > > > > the fish are found to retain their reproductive/ protective instincts > > > > much more firmly. Ray > > > > > > > > --- In AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com > > <mailto:AquaticLife %40yahoogroups. com> > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife %40yahoogroups. com>, Amber Berglund <amber@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > Okay my rabbit breeding Angel's have a piece of slate put over the > > > > > intake tube now, I put the tallest one there, hopefully they will > > > > > use it. I move the hornwort over to that side of the tank, I > > > > > figured > > > > because > > > > > it had higher lighting maybe that spooked them? I wish they would > > > > > have picked the other side though, LOL. > > > > > > > > > > Amber > > > > > > > > > > Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > If they like spawning on reeds or other upright stalks of > > > > > > plants, > > > > why not > > > > > > get some 1/2" PVC pipe pieces, paint them greenish colored (with > > > > aquarium > > > > > > safe paint like 2-part epoxy paint... or maybe one of them new > > > > > > Krylon plastic paints that bond with the plastic/PVC. .. but > > > > > > check to make > > > > sure > > > > > > others have used this with success first) and stand them up in > > > > > > the > > > > back or > > > > > > corners. They would also be easy to remove if you decide to move > > > > the eggs > > > > > > to another tank for hatching. > > > > > > > > > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > > > > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com > > <http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com> > > > > <http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com <http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com>> > > <http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com <http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com> > > > > <http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com <http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com>>> > > > > > > (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on > > > > > > the > > > > right > > > > > > side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by > > > > > > Year, > > > > Month) > > > > > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > > > > From: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com > > <mailto:AquaticLife %40yahoogroups. com> > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife %40yahoogroups. com> > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife %40yahoogroups. com> > > > > > > [mailto:AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com > > <mailto:AquaticLife %40yahoogroups. com> > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife %40yahoogroups. com> > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife %40yahoogroups. com>] On Behalf Of Raymond > > > > > > Wetzel > > > > > > Sent: Sunday, July 05, 2009 7:31 PM > > > > > > To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com > > <mailto:AquaticLife %40yahoogroups. com> > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife %40yahoogroups. com> > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife %40yahoogroups. com> > > > > > > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Everything is spawning I swear! LOL > > > > > > > > > > > > There are people who will custom cut spawning slates for Angels. > > > > If you > > > > > > need a source for longer slates, let me know. I'll see if I can > > > > dig up the > > > > > > info for someone I used to make me a bunch a couple of years > > > > > > ago, > > > > hoping > > > > > > that they still make them. Ray > > > > > > > > > > > > --- In AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com > > <mailto:AquaticLife %40yahoogroups. com> > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife %40yahoogroups. com> > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife %40yahoogroups. com>, Amber Berglund <amber@> > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I covered the end of the intake tube in several layers of > > > > > > > nettting (that you get from a hardware store), I don't know > > > > > > > how small it > > > > needs > > > > > > > to be but it's probably not small enough to protect the fry > > > > > > > from > > > > being > > > > > > sucked up. > > > > > > > I can float the inserts in the filter in the tank to help keep > > > > > > > the bacteria alive, or I could put them back into another tank > > too. > > > > > > > I had slate leaning up against next to both sides of the > > > > > > > intake > > > > filter > > > > > > > hoping they might use them, I didn't think to lean the largest > > > > > > > one right up against the intake tube, I thought it would block > > > > > > > the > > > > flow too > > > > > > much. > > > > > > > Next time I'll try adding more slate to the tank, I had 2 > > > > > > > medium > > > > sized > > > > > > > pieces but I have more in my 125 gallon tank too, and plenty > > > > > > outside, LOL. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Amber > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Raymond Wetzel wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Yes, this female is a Veiltail. Since, as I believe your > > > > intentions > > > > > > > > are to have the pair raise the fry, you'll not be removing > > > > > > > > the > > > > eggs > > > > > > > > you'll then need to shut off the filter in about 6 days > > > > > > > > (from the time the eggs were laid). As part of the pair's > > > > > > > > pre-spawning behaviorb of cleaning the spawning site, you > > > > > > > > should not have been surprised that the filter intake was > > > > > > > > chosen -- unless you missed that -- even if there were other > > > > > > > > sites they cleaned prior to > > > > selecting > > > > > > this. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Next time, just lean a spawning slate up against the filter > > > > > > > > intake if it reaches, so that the pair has no other choice > > > > > > > > but to use the slate if they insist on using that area. At > > > > > > > > least this way, you could then leave that slate (w/eggs) in > > > > > > > > position, but leaning up against the glass while you > > > > > > > > re-position the filter, and intake > > > > tube > > > > > > > > -- or move the slate a short distance provided they don't > > > > > > > > get too > > > > > > freaked out by that. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Right now, the eggs will be safe from being drawn up into > > > > > > > > the > > > > filter > > > > > > > > as their adhesion to the tube is fairly strong. After > > > > > > > > hatching, which takes about 3 days, this adhesion is still > > > > > > > > fairly > > > > strong, but > > > > > > > > lessens with each proceeding day towards the free-swimming > > > > > > > > stage (takes another 3 1/2 to usually closer to 4 days). > > > > > > > > You'll need to shut the filter down (or remove the intake > > > > > > > > tube from it, > > > > moving it a > > > > > > > > short > > > > > > > > distance) early on the 3rd day to prevent the now > > > > > > > > less-adhesive wrigglers from being drawn up into the filter. > > > > > > > > As a reminder, complete shut down of the filter will kill > > > > > > > > off your nitrifying bacteria unless you supply it with an > > > > > > > > airstone. As you can see, it would have been so much less > > > > > > > > complicated to have them spawn on a > > > > > > slate. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Some other early Angelfish breeders also used 1/2" diameter > > > > > > > > glass tubing (then obtained from a neon sign shop). Rigid > > > > > > > > plastic tubing may also be used. This is either filled with > > > > > > > > green sand and capped off, or painted green inside then > > > > > > > > filled with plain sand. Angels prefer using such tubes, > > > > > > > > simulating natural reeds, even before > > > > using > > > > > > > > slates -- but it's usually best to supply them with several, > > > > > > > > as large spawns won't fit on one such site. As they appear > > "solid" > > > > > > > > rather than clear, they'd much prefer to use them before > > > > > > > > filter intakes too. Ray > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > --- In AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com > > <mailto:AquaticLife %40yahoogroups. com> > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife %40yahoogroups. com> > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife %40yahoogroups. com> > > > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife %40yahoogroups. com>, Amber Berglund > > > > <amber@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Okay I just uploaded a correctly rotated photo with just a > > > > > > > > > contrast touch up, now you won't have to turn your head to > > > > > > > > > look > > > > > > at her > > > > > > ;) LOL. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Amber > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Amber Berglund wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Did you check out my new photo of my female? She's very > > > > pretty I > > > > > > > > > > think she's what's called a veil tail? Maybe Ray can > > > > > > > > > > tell > > > > me for > > > > > > > > > > sure, I > > > > > > > > like > > > > > > > > > > her though. > > > > > > > > > > Just posted the photo to my photo album tonight. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > http://groups. yahoo.com/ group/AquaticLif e/photos/ album/243006836/ pic > > <http://groups. yahoo.com/ group/AquaticLif e/photos/ album/243006836/ pic> > > > > > > <http://groups. yahoo.com/ group/AquaticLif e/photos/ album/243006836/ pi > > <http://groups. yahoo.com/ group/AquaticLif e/photos/ album/243006836/ pi> > > > > c> > > > > > > > > > > > > <http://groups. yahoo.com/ group/AquaticLif e/photos/ album/243006836/ pi > > <http://groups. yahoo.com/ group/AquaticLif e/photos/ album/243006836/ pi> > > > > c > > > > > > <http://groups. yahoo.com/ group/AquaticLif e/photos/ album/243006836/ pi > > <http://groups. yahoo.com/ group/AquaticLif e/photos/ album/243006836/ pi> > > > > c>> > > > > > > > > > > > > /484754961/view? picmode=& mode=tn&order= ordinal&start= 41&count= 20&dir > > > > > > > > =asc > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > <http://groups. yahoo.com/ group/AquaticLif e/photos/ album/243006836/ pi > > <http://groups. yahoo.com/ group/AquaticLif e/photos/ album/243006836/ pi> > > > > > > <http://groups. yahoo.com/ group/AquaticLif e/photos/ album/243006836/ pi > > <http://groups. yahoo.com/ group/AquaticLif e/photos/ album/243006836/ pi> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > <http://groups. yahoo.com/ group/AquaticLif e/photos/ album/243006836/ pi > > <http://groups. yahoo.com/ group/AquaticLif e/photos/ album/243006836/ pi> > > > > > > <http://groups. yahoo.com/ group/AquaticLif e/photos/ album/243006836/ pi > > <http://groups. yahoo.com/ group/AquaticLif e/photos/ album/243006836/ pi> > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > c/484754961/ view?picmode= &mode=tn& order=ordinal& start=41& count=20& di > > > > > > > > r=asc> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > <http://groups. yahoo.com/ group/AquaticLif e/photos/ album/243006836/ pi > > <http://groups. yahoo.com/ group/AquaticLif e/photos/ album/243006836/ pi> > > > > > > <http://groups. yahoo.com/ group/AquaticLif e/photos/ album/243006836/ pi > > <http://groups. yahoo.com/ group/AquaticLif e/photos/ album/243006836/ pi> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > <http://groups. yahoo.com/ group/AquaticLif e/photos/ album/243006836/ pi > > <http://groups. yahoo.com/ group/AquaticLif e/photos/ album/243006836/ pi> > > > > > > <http://groups. yahoo.com/ group/AquaticLif e/photos/ album/243006836/ pi > > <http://groups. yahoo.com/ group/AquaticLif e/photos/ album/243006836/ pi> > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > c/484754961/ view?picmode= &mode=tn& order=ordinal& start=41& count=20& di > > > > > > > > r=asc > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > <http://groups. yahoo.com/ group/AquaticLif e/photos/ album/243006836/ pi > > <http://groups. yahoo.com/ group/AquaticLif e/photos/ album/243006836/ pi> > > > > > > <http://groups. yahoo.com/ group/AquaticLif e/photos/ album/243006836/ pi > > <http://groups. yahoo.com/ group/AquaticLif e/photos/ album/243006836/ pi> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > <http://groups. yahoo.com/ group/AquaticLif e/photos/ album/243006836/ pi > > <http://groups. yahoo.com/ group/AquaticLif e/photos/ album/243006836/ pi> > > > > > > <http://groups. yahoo.com/ group/AquaticLif e/photos/ album/243006836/ pi > > <http://groups. yahoo.com/ group/AquaticLif e/photos/ album/243006836/ pi> > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > c/484754961/ view?picmode= &mode=tn& order=ordinal& start=41& count=20& di > > > > > > > > r=asc>> > > > > > > > > > > And silly me I forgot to rotate it, LOL, I'll get a > > > > > > > > > > rotated picture up soon ;) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Amber > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I think your Angelfish are a slightly different > > > > > > > > > > > variant than the > > > > > > > > normal > > > > > > > > > > > species... maybe: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Pterophyllum scalare leporidae > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > > > > > > > > > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com > > <http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com> > > > > <http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com <http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com>> > > > > > > <http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com <http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com> > > <http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com <http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com>>> > > > > > > > > <http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com > > <http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com> > > > > > > > > <http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com > > <http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com>> > > > > <http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com <http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com> > > <http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com <http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com>>>> > > > > > > > > > > <http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com > > <http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com> > > > > <http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com <http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com>> > > <http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com <http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com> > > > > <http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com <http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com>>> > > > > > > <http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com <http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com> > > <http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com <http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com>> > > > > <http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com <http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com> > > <http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com <http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com>>>>> > > > > > > > > <http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com > > <http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com> > > > > > > > > <http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com > > <http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com>> > > > > <http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com <http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com> > > <http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com <http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com>>> > > > > > > <http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com <http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com> > > <http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com <http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com>> > > > > <http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com <http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com> > > <http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com <http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com>>>> > > > > > > > > > > <http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com > > <http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com> > > > > <http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com <http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com>> > > <http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com <http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com> > > > > <http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com <http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com>>> > > > > > > <http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com <http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com> > > <http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com <http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com>> > > > > <http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com <http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com> > > <http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com <http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com>>>>>> > > > > > > > > > > > (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are > > > > listed on > > > > > > > > the right > > > > > > > > > > > side, alphabetically under Labels and also under > > > > > > > > > > > Archives by Year, > > > > > > > > > > Month) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > > > > > > > > > From: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com > > <mailto:AquaticLife %40yahoogroups. com> > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife %40yahoogroups. com> > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife %40yahoogroups. com> > > > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife %40yahoogroups. com> > > > > > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife %40yahoogroups. com> > > > > > > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife %40yahoogroups. com> > > > > > > > > > > > [mailto:AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com > > <mailto:AquaticLife %40yahoogroups. com> > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife %40yahoogroups. com> > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife %40yahoogroups. com> > > > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife %40yahoogroups. com> > > > > > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife %40yahoogroups. com> > > > > > > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife %40yahoogroups. com>] On Behalf Of > > > > > > > > > > > Amber Berglund > > > > > > > > > > > Sent: Saturday, July 04, 2009 11:01 PM > > > > > > > > > > > To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com > > <mailto:AquaticLife %40yahoogroups. com> > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife %40yahoogroups. com> > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife %40yahoogroups. com> > > > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife %40yahoogroups. com> > > > > > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife %40yahoogroups. com> > > > > > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife %40yahoogroups. com> > > > > > > > > > > > Subject: [AquaticLife] Everything is spawning I swear! > > > > > > > > > > > LOL > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Okay so the Angel's got used to their environment and > > > > > > > > > > > apparently > > > > > > > > feel > > > > > > > > > > > quite > > > > > > > > > > > safe, unless I stick my face too close to the tank > > > > > > > > > > > then they try to scare me off ;) Good thing I did all > > > > > > > > > > > the planting before this ;) I would > > > > > > > > have > > > > > > > > > > been > > > > > > > > > > > dodging Angel's just to plant the plants in the tank > > > > > > > > > > > ;) I figure > > > > > > > > all the > > > > > > > > > > > hornwort makes them feel more secure too. > > > > > > > > > > > And of course, out of all the slate I put in the tank > > > > > > > > > > > for them, > > > > > > > > where do > > > > > > > > > > > they lay the eggs? On the filter intake.... LOL. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Amber > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ------------ --------- --------- ------ > > > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. > > ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> > > PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to > > the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the > > SUBJECT > > LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- > > <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. > > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. > > > > If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of unsubscribing, you > > can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the > > home page. > > > > Or e-mail aquaticlife- digest@yahoogrou ps.com > > <mailto:aquaticlife -digest%40yahoog roups.com> to receive the digest, which > > includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email > > > > Or email aquaticlife- nomail@yahoogrou ps.com > > <mailto:aquaticlife -nomail%40yahoog roups.com> for the No E-Mail option > > where > > you will still be able to read messages on the group and post replies. > > > > Or email aquaticlife- normal@yahoogrou ps.com > > <mailto:aquaticlife -normal%40yahoog roups.com> to receive individual > > e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 41789	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 7/7/2009
Subject: Re: Everything is spawning I swear! LOL

Do you mean the stuff that looks like 4 leaf clovers? Amber biG poppa wrote: > > > Amber > hiya > I think some froglip will work also..... > > --- On Tue, 7/7/09, Raymond Wetzel <sevenspringss@... > <mailto:sevenspringss%40wmconnect.com>> wrote: > > From: Raymond Wetzel <sevenspringss@... > <mailto:sevenspringss%40wmconnect.com>> > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Everything is spawning I swear! LOL > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Date: Tuesday, July 7, 2009, 6:23 PM > > That could work! Ray > > --- In AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com, Amber Berglund <amber@...> wrote: > > > > I can plant a dwarf lilly that will grow floating leaves? The one in > the > > 125 gallon tank has tanken over half the tank with floating leaves, the > > plants under have actually started to grow better, I guess they like > > less light (I think they're swords mostly, and one anubias, but there's > > one that I'm not sure of, maybe a narrow leaf sword?). > > > > Amber > > > > Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > > > > > > > > > Maybe put something to shade that part of the tank from the > lighting? If > > > you don't have enough floating plants in the area. Since it's the > intake > > > for an HOB (I think), the return water would likely push floating > plants > > > away from that area so you may need a piece of your slate or other > > > material > > > to block the light shining down on that area. > > > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com <http://GoldLenny. > blogspot. com> > > > (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the > right > > > side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, > Month) > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > From: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com > > > <mailto:AquaticLife %40yahoogroups. com> > > > [mailto:AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com > > > <mailto:AquaticLife %40yahoogroups. com>] On > > > Behalf Of Raymond Wetzel > > > Sent: Tuesday, July 07, 2009 7:49 AM > > > To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com <mailto:AquaticLife > %40yahoogroups. com> > > > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Everything is spawning I swear! LOL > > > > > > Yes, I can see that could be a problem which isn't often > encountered when > > > setting up a tank specifically for breeding Angels. I know > breeding Angels > > > is not your main concern, and I notice your mention of another Angel > > > breeder > > > using a Walstad tank set-up, but this is in the minority. Still, > it would > > > be interesting to see what they do. > > > > > > It's not the duration of the lighting that has an effect on them, > but the > > > intensity. You could cut the tank lighting back to one hour a day, > but > > > when > > > exposed to that intensity for only a portion of that time, it's often > > > enough > > > to induce them to eat the eggs. Hopefully, your pair will eventually > > > overcome this self-defeating stimulus, and it appears somehow that > this > > > other "el natural" forum member's fish have gotten past this problem > > > (possibly as a result of specific floating plants?). I did say > that many > > > Angels will eat their eggs under these conditions, but stopped > short of > > > saying "most" (only questioning that possibility) as I can't > verify such a > > > conclusion -- although such behavior is generally expected in domestic > > > Angels under such stimuli. > > > > > > There's a big difference between surface-floating plants such as > Duckweed > > > (floating water Sprite is excellent too), and free-floating > Hornwort which > > > is suspended in the water column. Fish such as Angels can swim under > > > surface floating plants, which will provide some shading from the > > > intensity > > > of overhead light, but Hornwort grows as a blanket, often 6" o 8" > thick -- > > > which does not allow for tall fish to swim under it -- they swim > > > around it. > > > We'll see what this other person uses for plants, which may shed some > > > light > > > on the subject (oops, sorry about that pun). Might just be that, that > > > person's fish have overcome that egg-eating problem from the start, > > > and may > > > just be a pair (or pairs) that are not prone to eating their eggs -- > > > such as > > > your pair is. > > > > > > I've seen another Angelfish breeder using planted tanks (with > > > lighting) for > > > their pairs, even though I don't believe they were Walstad tanks. > She just > > > preferred having the pairs raise their fry, and in a more natural > setting. > > > The "natural setting" part may have been more to her liking rather > than to > > > any preference of the fish, and I do recall she used floating > plants, with > > > low-light plants in the substrate. There's no way of knowing how > often her > > > pairs ate their eggs either until they got used to this > environment. Ray > > > > > > --- In AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com > > > <mailto:AquaticLife %40yahoogroups. com>, Amber Berglund <amber@> > wrote: > > > > > > > > Well the problem is that it's a walstad natural planted tank, so I > > > > need some lighting for the low light plants (mostly crypts, some > java > > > > fern windelov's, and one sword plant, a large one), and a lot of > > > > duckweed and floating hornwort. I thought the hornwort would subdue > > > > the lighting enough, so I need a lot more? LOL. > > > > I can set the lighting up to the minimum of 8 hours a day, but not > > > > sure how well the plants will do with no added sunlight (walstad > tanks > > > > are supposed to get more lighting if they don't have added > sunlight). > > > > I will ask on the "el natural" forums about what other breeders > do for > > > > their Angel's I know at least one other person on there has a > walstad > > > > tank for their breeding angel's. > > > > > > > > Amber > > > > > > > > > > > Raymond Wetzel wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > You keep the aquarium lights on during the spawning, egg tending > > > > > period? This is a no-no as many (most?) domestic pairs will eat > > > > > their eggs every time. I guess I didn't expect this practice as I > > > > > just thought that you probably read my posts on here concerning > > > > > Angelfish breeding -- silly me, I guess I should never have jumped > > > > > to that conclusion <G>. > > > > > > > > > > Since you really don't intend on breeding them anyway, it really > > > > > doesn't matter, but just be advised that as long as you keep the > > > > > tank lights burning while the pair have eggs, or fry (especially > > > > > wrigglers), the chances are not good that the fish will leave the > > > > > eggs untouched (uneaten). It's not so much that the glaring > lighting > > > > > spooks them, but the bright light all too well increases the > fish's > > > > > natural inclination to eat, when having to be confronted > continously > > > > > by the stimuli of the eggs looking increasingly like a food source > > > > > when its lit up so brightly as though in a deli-case. Under such > > > > > conditions, this stimulus overtakes the fish's reproductive > instinct > > > > > at some point. Subdued lighting will not promote such stimuli and > > > > > the fish are found to retain their reproductive/ protective > instincts > > > > > much more firmly. Ray > > > > > > > > > > --- In AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com > > > <mailto:AquaticLife %40yahoogroups. com> > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife %40yahoogroups. com>, Amber Berglund > <amber@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > Okay my rabbit breeding Angel's have a piece of slate put > over the > > > > > > intake tube now, I put the tallest one there, hopefully they > will > > > > > > use it. I move the hornwort over to that side of the tank, I > > > > > > figured > > > > > because > > > > > > it had higher lighting maybe that spooked them? I wish they > would > > > > > > have picked the other side though, LOL. > > > > > > > > > > > > Amber > > > > > > > > > > > > Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > If they like spawning on reeds or other upright stalks of > > > > > > > plants, > > > > > why not > > > > > > > get some 1/2" PVC pipe pieces, paint them greenish colored > (with > > > > > aquarium > > > > > > > safe paint like 2-part epoxy paint... or maybe one of them new > > > > > > > Krylon plastic paints that bond with the plastic/PVC. .. but > > > > > > > check to make > > > > > sure > > > > > > > others have used this with success first) and stand them up in > > > > > > > the > > > > > back or > > > > > > > corners. They would also be easy to remove if you decide > to move > > > > > the eggs > > > > > > > to another tank for hatching. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > > > > > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com > > > <http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com> > > > > > <http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com <http://GoldLenny. blogspot. > com>> > > > <http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com <http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com> > > > > > <http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com <http://GoldLenny. blogspot. > com>>> > > > > > > > (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on > > > > > > > the > > > > > right > > > > > > > side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by > > > > > > > Year, > > > > > Month) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > > > > > From: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com > > > <mailto:AquaticLife %40yahoogroups. com> > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife %40yahoogroups. com> > > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife %40yahoogroups. com> > > > > > > > [mailto:AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com > > > <mailto:AquaticLife %40yahoogroups. com> > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife %40yahoogroups. com> > > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife %40yahoogroups. com>] On Behalf Of Raymond > > > > > > > Wetzel > > > > > > > Sent: Sunday, July 05, 2009 7:31 PM > > > > > > > To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com > > > <mailto:AquaticLife %40yahoogroups. com> > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife %40yahoogroups. com> > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife %40yahoogroups. com> > > > > > > > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Everything is spawning I swear! LOL > > > > > > > > > > > > > > There are people who will custom cut spawning slates for > Angels. > > > > > If you > > > > > > > need a source for longer slates, let me know. I'll see if > I can > > > > > dig up the > > > > > > > info for someone I used to make me a bunch a couple of years > > > > > > > ago, > > > > > hoping > > > > > > > that they still make them. Ray > > > > > > > > > > > > > > --- In AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com > > > <mailto:AquaticLife %40yahoogroups. com> > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife %40yahoogroups. com> > > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife %40yahoogroups. com>, Amber Berglund > <amber@> > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I covered the end of the intake tube in several layers of > > > > > > > > nettting (that you get from a hardware store), I don't know > > > > > > > > how small it > > > > > needs > > > > > > > > to be but it's probably not small enough to protect the fry > > > > > > > > from > > > > > being > > > > > > > sucked up. > > > > > > > > I can float the inserts in the filter in the tank to > help keep > > > > > > > > the bacteria alive, or I could put them back into > another tank > > > too. > > > > > > > > I had slate leaning up against next to both sides of the > > > > > > > > intake > > > > > filter > > > > > > > > hoping they might use them, I didn't think to lean the > largest > > > > > > > > one right up against the intake tube, I thought it would > block > > > > > > > > the > > > > > flow too > > > > > > > much. > > > > > > > > Next time I'll try adding more slate to the tank, I had 2 > > > > > > > > medium > > > > > sized > > > > > > > > pieces but I have more in my 125 gallon tank too, and plenty > > > > > > > outside, LOL. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Amber > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Raymond Wetzel wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Yes, this female is a Veiltail. Since, as I believe your > > > > > intentions > > > > > > > > > are to have the pair raise the fry, you'll not be removing > > > > > > > > > the > > > > > eggs > > > > > > > > > you'll then need to shut off the filter in about 6 days > > > > > > > > > (from the time the eggs were laid). As part of the pair's > > > > > > > > > pre-spawning behaviorb of cleaning the spawning site, you > > > > > > > > > should not have been surprised that the filter intake was > > > > > > > > > chosen -- unless you missed that -- even if there were > other > > > > > > > > > sites they cleaned prior to > > > > > selecting > > > > > > > this. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Next time, just lean a spawning slate up against the > filter > > > > > > > > > intake if it reaches, so that the pair has no other choice > > > > > > > > > but to use the slate if they insist on using that area. At > > > > > > > > > least this way, you could then leave that slate > (w/eggs) in > > > > > > > > > position, but leaning up against the glass while you > > > > > > > > > re-position the filter, and intake > > > > > tube > > > > > > > > > -- or move the slate a short distance provided they don't > > > > > > > > > get too > > > > > > > freaked out by that. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Right now, the eggs will be safe from being drawn up into > > > > > > > > > the > > > > > filter > > > > > > > > > as their adhesion to the tube is fairly strong. After > > > > > > > > > hatching, which takes about 3 days, this adhesion is still > > > > > > > > > fairly > > > > > strong, but > > > > > > > > > lessens with each proceeding day towards the free-swimming > > > > > > > > > stage (takes another 3 1/2 to usually closer to 4 days). > > > > > > > > > You'll need to shut the filter down (or remove the intake > > > > > > > > > tube from it, > > > > > moving it a > > > > > > > > > short > > > > > > > > > distance) early on the 3rd day to prevent the now > > > > > > > > > less-adhesive wrigglers from being drawn up into the > filter. > > > > > > > > > As a reminder, complete shut down of the filter will kill > > > > > > > > > off your nitrifying bacteria unless you supply it with an > > > > > > > > > airstone. As you can see, it would have been so much less > > > > > > > > > complicated to have them spawn on a > > > > > > > slate. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Some other early Angelfish breeders also used 1/2" > diameter > > > > > > > > > glass tubing (then obtained from a neon sign shop). Rigid > > > > > > > > > plastic tubing may also be used. This is either filled > with > > > > > > > > > green sand and capped off, or painted green inside then > > > > > > > > > filled with plain sand. Angels prefer using such tubes, > > > > > > > > > simulating natural reeds, even before > > > > > using > > > > > > > > > slates -- but it's usually best to supply them with > several, > > > > > > > > > as large spawns won't fit on one such site. As they appear > > > "solid" > > > > > > > > > rather than clear, they'd much prefer to use them before > > > > > > > > > filter intakes too. Ray > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > --- In AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com > > > <mailto:AquaticLife %40yahoogroups. com> > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife %40yahoogroups. com> > > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife %40yahoogroups. com> > > > > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife %40yahoogroups. com>, Amber Berglund > > > > > <amber@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Okay I just uploaded a correctly rotated photo with > just a > > > > > > > > > > contrast touch up, now you won't have to turn your > head to > > > > > > > > > > look > > > > > > > at her > > > > > > > ;) LOL. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Amber > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Amber Berglund wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Did you check out my new photo of my female? She's > very > > > > > pretty I > > > > > > > > > > > think she's what's called a veil tail? Maybe Ray can > > > > > > > > > > > tell > > > > > me for > > > > > > > > > > > sure, I > > > > > > > > > like > > > > > > > > > > > her though. > > > > > > > > > > > Just posted the photo to my photo album tonight. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > http://groups. yahoo.com/ group/AquaticLif e/photos/ > album/243006836/ pic > > > <http://groups. yahoo.com/ group/AquaticLif e/photos/ > album/243006836/ pic> > > > > > > > > <http://groups. yahoo.com/ group/AquaticLif e/photos/ > album/243006836/ pi > > > <http://groups. yahoo.com/ group/AquaticLif e/photos/ > album/243006836/ pi> > > > > > c> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > <http://groups. yahoo.com/ group/AquaticLif e/photos/ > album/243006836/ pi > > > <http://groups. yahoo.com/ group/AquaticLif e/photos/ > album/243006836/ pi> > > > > > c > > > > > > > > <http://groups. yahoo.com/ group/AquaticLif e/photos/ > album/243006836/ pi > > > <http://groups. yahoo.com/ group/AquaticLif e/photos/ > album/243006836/ pi> > > > > > c>> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > /484754961/view? picmode=& mode=tn&order= ordinal&start= > 41&count= 20&dir > > > > > > > > > =asc > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > <http://groups. yahoo.com/ group/AquaticLif e/photos/ > album/243006836/ pi > > > <http://groups. yahoo.com/ group/AquaticLif e/photos/ > album/243006836/ pi> > > > > > > > > <http://groups. yahoo.com/ group/AquaticLif e/photos/ > album/243006836/ pi > > > <http://groups. yahoo.com/ group/AquaticLif e/photos/ > album/243006836/ pi> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > <http://groups. yahoo.com/ group/AquaticLif e/photos/ > album/243006836/ pi > > > <http://groups. yahoo.com/ group/AquaticLif e/photos/ > album/243006836/ pi> > > > > > > > > <http://groups. yahoo.com/ group/AquaticLif e/photos/ > album/243006836/ pi > > > <http://groups. yahoo.com/ group/AquaticLif e/photos/ > album/243006836/ pi> > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > c/484754961/ view?picmode= &mode=tn& order=ordinal& start=41& > count=20& di > > > > > > > > > r=asc> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > <http://groups. yahoo.com/ group/AquaticLif e/photos/ > album/243006836/ pi > > > <http://groups. yahoo.com/ group/AquaticLif e/photos/ > album/243006836/ pi> > > > > > > > > <http://groups. yahoo.com/ group/AquaticLif e/photos/ > album/243006836/ pi > > > <http://groups. yahoo.com/ group/AquaticLif e/photos/ > album/243006836/ pi> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > <http://groups. yahoo.com/ group/AquaticLif e/photos/ > album/243006836/ pi > > > <http://groups. yahoo.com/ group/AquaticLif e/photos/ > album/243006836/ pi> > > > > > > > > <http://groups. yahoo.com/ group/AquaticLif e/photos/ > album/243006836/ pi > > > <http://groups. yahoo.com/ group/AquaticLif e/photos/ > album/243006836/ pi> > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > c/484754961/ view?picmode= &mode=tn& order=ordinal& start=41& > count=20& di > > > > > > > > > r=asc > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > <http://groups. yahoo.com/ group/AquaticLif e/photos/ > album/243006836/ pi > > > <http://groups. yahoo.com/ group/AquaticLif e/photos/ > album/243006836/ pi> > > > > > > > > <http://groups. yahoo.com/ group/AquaticLif e/photos/ > album/243006836/ pi > > > <http://groups. yahoo.com/ group/AquaticLif e/photos/ > album/243006836/ pi> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > <http://groups. yahoo.com/ group/AquaticLif e/photos/ > album/243006836/ pi > > > <http://groups. yahoo.com/ group/AquaticLif e/photos/ > album/243006836/ pi> > > > > > > > > <http://groups. yahoo.com/ group/AquaticLif e/photos/ > album/243006836/ pi > > > <http://groups. yahoo.com/ group/AquaticLif e/photos/ > album/243006836/ pi> > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > c/484754961/ view?picmode= &mode=tn& order=ordinal& start=41& > count=20& di > > > > > > > > > r=asc>> > > > > > > > > > > > And silly me I forgot to rotate it, LOL, I'll get a > > > > > > > > > > > rotated picture up soon ;) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Amber > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I think your Angelfish are a slightly different > > > > > > > > > > > > variant than the > > > > > > > > > normal > > > > > > > > > > > > species... maybe: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Pterophyllum scalare leporidae > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > > > > > > > > > > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com > > > <http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com> > > > > > <http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com <http://GoldLenny. blogspot. > com>> > > > > > > > <http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com <http://GoldLenny. > blogspot. com> > > > <http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com <http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com>>> > > > > > > > > > <http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com > > > <http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com> > > > > > > > > > <http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com > > > <http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com>> > > > > > <http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com <http://GoldLenny. blogspot. > com> > > > <http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com <http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com>>>> > > > > > > > > > > > <http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com > > > <http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com> > > > > > <http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com <http://GoldLenny. blogspot. > com>> > > > <http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com <http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com> > > > > > <http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com <http://GoldLenny. blogspot. > com>>> > > > > > > > <http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com <http://GoldLenny. > blogspot. com> > > > <http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com <http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com>> > > > > > <http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com <http://GoldLenny. blogspot. > com> > > > <http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com <http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com>>>>> > > > > > > > > > <http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com > > > <http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com> > > > > > > > > > <http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com > > > <http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com>> > > > > > <http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com <http://GoldLenny. blogspot. > com> > > > <http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com <http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com>>> > > > > > > > <http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com <http://GoldLenny. > blogspot. com> > > > <http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com <http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com>> > > > > > <http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com <http://GoldLenny. blogspot. > com> > > > <http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com <http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com>>>> > > > > > > > > > > > <http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com > > > <http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com> > > > > > <http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com <http://GoldLenny. blogspot. > com>> > > > <http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com <http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com> > > > > > <http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com <http://GoldLenny. blogspot. > com>>> > > > > > > > <http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com <http://GoldLenny. > blogspot. com> > > > <http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com <http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com>> > > > > > <http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com <http://GoldLenny. blogspot. > com> > > > <http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com <http://GoldLenny. blogspot. > com>>>>>> > > > > > > > > > > > > (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are > > > > > listed on > > > > > > > > > the right > > > > > > > > > > > > side, alphabetically under Labels and also under > > > > > > > > > > > > Archives by Year, > > > > > > > > > > > Month) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > > > > > > > > > > From: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com > > > <mailto:AquaticLife %40yahoogroups. com> > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife %40yahoogroups. com> > > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife %40yahoogroups. com> > > > > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife %40yahoogroups. com> > > > > > > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife %40yahoogroups. com> > > > > > > > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife %40yahoogroups. com> > > > > > > > > > > > > [mailto:AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com > > > <mailto:AquaticLife %40yahoogroups. com> > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife %40yahoogroups. com> > > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife %40yahoogroups. com> > > > > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife %40yahoogroups. com> > > > > > > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife %40yahoogroups. com> > > > > > > > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife %40yahoogroups. com>] On > Behalf Of > > > > > > > > > > > > Amber Berglund > > > > > > > > > > > > Sent: Saturday, July 04, 2009 11:01 PM > > > > > > > > > > > > To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com > > > <mailto:AquaticLife %40yahoogroups. com> > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife %40yahoogroups. com> > > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife %40yahoogroups. com> > > > > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife %40yahoogroups. com> > > > > > > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife %40yahoogroups. com> > > > > > > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife %40yahoogroups. com> > > > > > > > > > > > > Subject: [AquaticLife] Everything is spawning I > swear! > > > > > > > > > > > > LOL > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Okay so the Angel's got used to their > environment and > > > > > > > > > > > > apparently > > > > > > > > > feel > > > > > > > > > > > > quite > > > > > > > > > > > > safe, unless I stick my face too close to the tank > > > > > > > > > > > > then they try to scare me off ;) Good thing I > did all > > > > > > > > > > > > the planting before this ;) I would > > > > > > > > > have > > > > > > > > > > > been > > > > > > > > > > > > dodging Angel's just to plant the plants in the tank > > > > > > > > > > > > ;) I figure > > > > > > > > > all the > > > > > > > > > > > > hornwort makes them feel more secure too. > > > > > > > > > > > > And of course, out of all the slate I put in the > tank > > > > > > > > > > > > for them, > > > > > > > > > where do > > > > > > > > > > > > they lay the eggs? On the filter intake.... LOL. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Amber > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ------------ --------- --------- ------ > > > > > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, > Thank You. > > > ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , > .·´¯`·..><((((º> > > > PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT > important to > > > the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the > > > SUBJECT > > > LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- > > > <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , > .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. > > > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. > > > > > > If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of > unsubscribing, you > > > can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My > Membership" on the > > > home page. > > > > > > Or e-mail aquaticlife- digest@yahoogrou ps.com > > > <mailto:aquaticlife -digest%40yahoog roups.com> to receive the > digest, which > > > includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email > > > > > > Or email aquaticlife- nomail@yahoogrou ps.com > > > <mailto:aquaticlife -nomail%40yahoog roups.com> for the No E-Mail > option > > > where > > > you will still be able to read messages on the group and post replies. > > > > > > Or email aquaticlife- normal@yahoogrou ps.com > > > <mailto:aquaticlife -normal%40yahoog roups.com> to receive individual > > > e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 41790	From: biG poppa	Date: 7/7/2009
Subject: Re: Everything is spawning I swear! LOL

yes --- On Tue, 7/7/09, Amber Berglund <amber@...> wrote: From: Amber Berglund <amber@...> Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: Everything is spawning I swear! LOL To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Date: Tuesday, July 7, 2009, 6:36 PM Do you mean the stuff that looks like 4 leaf clovers? Amber biG poppa wrote: > > > Amber > hiya > I think some froglip will work also..... > > --- On Tue, 7/7/09, Raymond Wetzel <sevenspringss@ wmconnect. com > <mailto:sevenspring ss%40wmconnect. com>> wrote: > > From: Raymond Wetzel <sevenspringss@ wmconnect. com > <mailto:sevenspring ss%40wmconnect. com>> > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Everything is spawning I swear! LOL > To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com <mailto:AquaticLife %40yahoogroups. com> > Date: Tuesday, July 7, 2009, 6:23 PM > > That could work! Ray > > --- In AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com, Amber Berglund <amber@...> wrote: > > > > I can plant a dwarf lilly that will grow floating leaves? The one in > the > > 125 gallon tank has tanken over half the tank with floating leaves, the > > plants under have actually started to grow better, I guess they like > > less light (I think they're swords mostly, and one anubias, but there's > > one that I'm not sure of, maybe a narrow leaf sword?). > > > > Amber > > > > Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > > > > > > > > > Maybe put something to shade that part of the tank from the > lighting? If > > > you don't have enough floating plants in the area. Since it's the > intake > > > for an HOB (I think), the return water would likely push floating > plants > > > away from that area so you may need a piece of your slate or other > > > material > > > to block the light shining down on that area. > > > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com <http://GoldLenny. > blogspot. com> > > > (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the > right > > > side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, > Month) > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > From: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com > > > <mailto:AquaticLife %40yahoogroups. com> > > > [mailto:AquaticLife @ yahoogroups. com > > > <mailto:AquaticLife %40yahoogroups. com>] On > > > Behalf Of Raymond Wetzel > > > Sent: Tuesday, July 07, 2009 7:49 AM > > > To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com <mailto:AquaticLife > %40yahoogroups. com> > > > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Everything is spawning I swear! LOL > > > > > > Yes, I can see that could be a problem which isn't often > encountered when > > > setting up a tank specifically for breeding Angels. I know > breeding Angels > > > is not your main concern, and I notice your mention of another Angel > > > breeder > > > using a Walstad tank set-up, but this is in the minority. Still, > it would > > > be interesting to see what they do. > > > > > > It's not the duration of the lighting that has an effect on them, > but the > > > intensity. You could cut the tank lighting back to one hour a day, > but > > > when > > > exposed to that intensity for only a portion of that time, it's often > > > enough > > > to induce them to eat the eggs. Hopefully, your pair will eventually > > > overcome this self-defeating stimulus, and it appears somehow that > this > > > other "el natural" forum member's fish have gotten past this problem > > > (possibly as a result of specific floating plants?). I did say > that many > > > Angels will eat their eggs under these conditions, but stopped > short of > > > saying "most" (only questioning that possibility) as I can't > verify such a > > > conclusion -- although such behavior is generally expected in domestic > > > Angels under such stimuli. > > > > > > There's a big difference between surface-floating plants such as > Duckweed > > > (floating water Sprite is excellent too), and free-floating > Hornwort which > > > is suspended in the water column. Fish such as Angels can swim under > > > surface floating plants, which will provide some shading from the > > > intensity > > > of overhead light, but Hornwort grows as a blanket, often 6" o 8" > thick -- > > > which does not allow for tall fish to swim under it -- they swim > > > around it. > > > We'll see what this other person uses for plants, which may shed some > > > light > > > on the subject (oops, sorry about that pun). Might just be that, that > > > person's fish have overcome that egg-eating problem from the start, > > > and may > > > just be a pair (or pairs) that are not prone to eating their eggs -- > > > such as > > > your pair is. > > > > > > I've seen another Angelfish breeder using planted tanks (with > > > lighting) for > > > their pairs, even though I don't believe they were Walstad tanks. > She just > > > preferred having the pairs raise their fry, and in a more natural > setting. > > > The "natural setting" part may have been more to her liking rather > than to > > > any preference of the fish, and I do recall she used floating > plants, with > > > low-light plants in the substrate. There's no way of knowing how > often her > > > pairs ate their eggs either until they got used to this > environment. Ray > > > > > > --- In AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com > > > <mailto:AquaticLife %40yahoogroups. com>, Amber Berglund <amber@> > wrote: > > > > > > > > Well the problem is that it's a walstad natural planted tank, so I > > > > need some lighting for the low light plants (mostly crypts, some > java > > > > fern windelov's, and one sword plant, a large one), and a lot of > > > > duckweed and floating hornwort. I thought the hornwort would subdue > > > > the lighting enough, so I need a lot more? LOL. > > > > I can set the lighting up to the minimum of 8 hours a day, but not > > > > sure how well the plants will do with no added sunlight (walstad > tanks > > > > are supposed to get more lighting if they don't have added > sunlight). > > > > I will ask on the "el natural" forums about what other breeders > do for > > > > their Angel's I know at least one other person on there has a > walstad > > > > tank for their breeding angel's. > > > > > > > > Amber > > > > > > > > > > > Raymond Wetzel wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > You keep the aquarium lights on during the spawning, egg tending > > > > > period? This is a no-no as many (most?) domestic pairs will eat > > > > > their eggs every time. I guess I didn't expect this practice as I > > > > > just thought that you probably read my posts on here concerning > > > > > Angelfish breeding -- silly me, I guess I should never have jumped > > > > > to that conclusion <G>. > > > > > > > > > > Since you really don't intend on breeding them anyway, it really > > > > > doesn't matter, but just be advised that as long as you keep the > > > > > tank lights burning while the pair have eggs, or fry (especially > > > > > wrigglers), the chances are not good that the fish will leave the > > > > > eggs untouched (uneaten). It's not so much that the glaring > lighting > > > > > spooks them, but the bright light all too well increases the > fish's > > > > > natural inclination to eat, when having to be confronted > continously > > > > > by the stimuli of the eggs looking increasingly like a food source > > > > > when its lit up so brightly as though in a deli-case. Under such > > > > > conditions, this stimulus overtakes the fish's reproductive > instinct > > > > > at some point. Subdued lighting will not promote such stimuli and > > > > > the fish are found to retain their reproductive/ protective > instincts > > > > > much more firmly. Ray > > > > > > > > > > --- In AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com > > > <mailto:AquaticLife %40yahoogroups. com> > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife %40yahoogroups. com>, Amber Berglund > <amber@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > Okay my rabbit breeding Angel's have a piece of slate put > over the > > > > > > intake tube now, I put the tallest one there, hopefully they > will > > > > > > use it. I move the hornwort over to that side of the tank, I > > > > > > figured > > > > > because > > > > > > it had higher lighting maybe that spooked them? I wish they > would > > > > > > have picked the other side though, LOL. > > > > > > > > > > > > Amber > > > > > > > > > > > > Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > If they like spawning on reeds or other upright stalks of > > > > > > > plants, > > > > > why not > > > > > > > get some 1/2" PVC pipe pieces, paint them greenish colored > (with > > > > > aquarium > > > > > > > safe paint like 2-part epoxy paint... or maybe one of them new > > > > > > > Krylon plastic paints that bond with the plastic/PVC. .. but > > > > > > > check to make > > > > > sure > > > > > > > others have used this with success first) and stand them up in > > > > > > > the > > > > > back or > > > > > > > corners. They would also be easy to remove if you decide > to move > > > > > the eggs > > > > > > > to another tank for hatching. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > > > > > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com > > > <http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com> > > > > > <http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com <http://GoldLenny. blogspot. > com>> > > > <http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com <http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com> > > > > > <http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com <http://GoldLenny. blogspot. > com>>> > > > > > > > (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on > > > > > > > the > > > > > right > > > > > > > side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by > > > > > > > Year, > > > > > Month) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > > > > > From: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com > > > <mailto:AquaticLife %40yahoogroups. com> > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife %40yahoogroups. com> > > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife %40yahoogroups. com> > > > > > > > [mailto:AquaticLife @ yahoogroups. com > > > <mailto:AquaticLife %40yahoogroups. com> > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife %40yahoogroups. com> > > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife %40yahoogroups. com>] On Behalf Of Raymond > > > > > > > Wetzel > > > > > > > Sent: Sunday, July 05, 2009 7:31 PM > > > > > > > To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com > > > <mailto:AquaticLife %40yahoogroups. com> > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife %40yahoogroups. com> > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife %40yahoogroups. com> > > > > > > > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Everything is spawning I swear! LOL > > > > > > > > > > > > > > There are people who will custom cut spawning slates for > Angels. > > > > > If you > > > > > > > need a source for longer slates, let me know. I'll see if > I can > > > > > dig up the > > > > > > > info for someone I used to make me a bunch a couple of years > > > > > > > ago, > > > > > hoping > > > > > > > that they still make them. Ray > > > > > > > > > > > > > > --- In AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com > > > <mailto:AquaticLife %40yahoogroups. com> > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife %40yahoogroups. com> > > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife %40yahoogroups. com>, Amber Berglund > <amber@> > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I covered the end of the intake tube in several layers of > > > > > > > > nettting (that you get from a hardware store), I don't know > > > > > > > > how small it > > > > > needs > > > > > > > > to be but it's probably not small enough to protect the fry > > > > > > > > from > > > > > being > > > > > > > sucked up. > > > > > > > > I can float the inserts in the filter in the tank to > help keep > > > > > > > > the bacteria alive, or I could put them back into > another tank > > > too. > > > > > > > > I had slate leaning up against next to both sides of the > > > > > > > > intake > > > > > filter > > > > > > > > hoping they might use them, I didn't think to lean the > largest > > > > > > > > one right up against the intake tube, I thought it would > block > > > > > > > > the > > > > > flow too > > > > > > > much. > > > > > > > > Next time I'll try adding more slate to the tank, I had 2 > > > > > > > > medium > > > > > sized > > > > > > > > pieces but I have more in my 125 gallon tank too, and plenty > > > > > > > outside, LOL. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Amber > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Raymond Wetzel wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Yes, this female is a Veiltail. Since, as I believe your > > > > > intentions > > > > > > > > > are to have the pair raise the fry, you'll not be removing > > > > > > > > > the > > > > > eggs > > > > > > > > > you'll then need to shut off the filter in about 6 days > > > > > > > > > (from the time the eggs were laid). As part of the pair's > > > > > > > > > pre-spawning behaviorb of cleaning the spawning site, you > > > > > > > > > should not have been surprised that the filter intake was > > > > > > > > > chosen -- unless you missed that -- even if there were > other > > > > > > > > > sites they cleaned prior to > > > > > selecting > > > > > > > this. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Next time, just lean a spawning slate up against the > filter > > > > > > > > > intake if it reaches, so that the pair has no other choice > > > > > > > > > but to use the slate if they insist on using that area. At > > > > > > > > > least this way, you could then leave that slate > (w/eggs) in > > > > > > > > > position, but leaning up against the glass while you > > > > > > > > > re-position the filter, and intake > > > > > tube > > > > > > > > > -- or move the slate a short distance provided they don't > > > > > > > > > get too > > > > > > > freaked out by that. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Right now, the eggs will be safe from being drawn up into > > > > > > > > > the > > > > > filter > > > > > > > > > as their adhesion to the tube is fairly strong. After > > > > > > > > > hatching, which takes about 3 days, this adhesion is still > > > > > > > > > fairly > > > > > strong, but > > > > > > > > > lessens with each proceeding day towards the free-swimming > > > > > > > > > stage (takes another 3 1/2 to usually closer to 4 days). > > > > > > > > > You'll need to shut the filter down (or remove the intake > > > > > > > > > tube from it, > > > > > moving it a > > > > > > > > > short > > > > > > > > > distance) early on the 3rd day to prevent the now > > > > > > > > > less-adhesive wrigglers from being drawn up into the > filter. > > > > > > > > > As a reminder, complete shut down of the filter will kill > > > > > > > > > off your nitrifying bacteria unless you supply it with an > > > > > > > > > airstone. As you can see, it would have been so much less > > > > > > > > > complicated to have them spawn on a > > > > > > > slate. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Some other early Angelfish breeders also used 1/2" > diameter > > > > > > > > > glass tubing (then obtained from a neon sign shop). Rigid > > > > > > > > > plastic tubing may also be used. This is either filled > with > > > > > > > > > green sand and capped off, or painted green inside then > > > > > > > > > filled with plain sand. Angels prefer using such tubes, > > > > > > > > > simulating natural reeds, even before > > > > > using > > > > > > > > > slates -- but it's usually best to supply them with > several, > > > > > > > > > as large spawns won't fit on one such site. As they appear > > > "solid" > > > > > > > > > rather than clear, they'd much prefer to use them before > > > > > > > > > filter intakes too. Ray > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > --- In AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com > > > <mailto:AquaticLife %40yahoogroups. com> > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife %40yahoogroups. com> > > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife %40yahoogroups. com> > > > > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife %40yahoogroups. com>, Amber Berglund > > > > > <amber@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Okay I just uploaded a correctly rotated photo with > just a > > > > > > > > > > contrast touch up, now you won't have to turn your > head to > > > > > > > > > > look > > > > > > > at her > > > > > > > ;) LOL. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Amber > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Amber Berglund wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Did you check out my new photo of my female? She's > very > > > > > pretty I > > > > > > > > > > > think she's what's called a veil tail? Maybe Ray can > > > > > > > > > > > tell > > > > > me for > > > > > > > > > > > sure, I > > > > > > > > > like > > > > > > > > > > > her though. > > > > > > > > > > > Just posted the photo to my photo album tonight. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > http://groups. yahoo.com/ group/AquaticLif e/photos/ > album/243006836/ pic > > > <http://groups. yahoo.com/ group/AquaticLif e/photos/ > album/243006836/ pic> > > > > > > > > <http://groups. yahoo.com/ group/AquaticLif e/photos/ > album/243006836/ pi > > > <http://groups. yahoo.com/ group/AquaticLif e/photos/ > album/243006836/ pi> > > > > > c> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > <http://groups. yahoo.com/ group/AquaticLif e/photos/ > album/243006836/ pi > > > <http://groups. yahoo.com/ group/AquaticLif e/photos/ > album/243006836/ pi> > > > > > c > > > > > > > > <http://groups. yahoo.com/ group/AquaticLif e/photos/ > album/243006836/ pi > > > <http://groups. yahoo.com/ group/AquaticLif e/photos/ > album/243006836/ pi> > > > > > c>> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > /484754961/view? picmode=& mode=tn&order= ordinal&start= > 41&count= 20&dir > > > > > > > > > =asc > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > <http://groups. yahoo.com/ group/AquaticLif e/photos/ > album/243006836/ pi > > > <http://groups. yahoo.com/ group/AquaticLif e/photos/ > album/243006836/ pi> > > > > > > > > <http://groups. yahoo.com/ group/AquaticLif e/photos/ > album/243006836/ pi > > > <http://groups. yahoo.com/ group/AquaticLif e/photos/ > album/243006836/ pi> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > <http://groups. yahoo.com/ group/AquaticLif e/photos/ > album/243006836/ pi > > > <http://groups. yahoo.com/ group/AquaticLif e/photos/ > album/243006836/ pi> > > > > > > > > <http://groups. yahoo.com/ group/AquaticLif e/photos/ > album/243006836/ pi > > > <http://groups. yahoo.com/ group/AquaticLif e/photos/ > album/243006836/ pi> > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > c/484754961/ view?picmode= &mode=tn& order=ordinal& start=41& > count=20& di > > > > > > > > > r=asc> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > <http://groups. yahoo.com/ group/AquaticLif e/photos/ > album/243006836/ pi > > > <http://groups. yahoo.com/ group/AquaticLif e/photos/ > album/243006836/ pi> > > > > > > > > <http://groups. yahoo.com/ group/AquaticLif e/photos/ > album/243006836/ pi > > > <http://groups. yahoo.com/ group/AquaticLif e/photos/ > album/243006836/ pi> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > <http://groups. yahoo.com/ group/AquaticLif e/photos/ > album/243006836/ pi > > > <http://groups. yahoo.com/ group/AquaticLif e/photos/ > album/243006836/ pi> > > > > > > > > <http://groups. yahoo.com/ group/AquaticLif e/photos/ > album/243006836/ pi > > > <http://groups. yahoo.com/ group/AquaticLif e/photos/ > album/243006836/ pi> > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > c/484754961/ view?picmode= &mode=tn& order=ordinal& start=41& > count=20& di > > > > > > > > > r=asc > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > <http://groups. yahoo.com/ group/AquaticLif e/photos/ > album/243006836/ pi > > > <http://groups. yahoo.com/ group/AquaticLif e/photos/ > album/243006836/ pi> > > > > > > > > <http://groups. yahoo.com/ group/AquaticLif e/photos/ > album/243006836/ pi > > > <http://groups. yahoo.com/ group/AquaticLif e/photos/ > album/243006836/ pi> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > <http://groups. yahoo.com/ group/AquaticLif e/photos/ > album/243006836/ pi > > > <http://groups. yahoo.com/ group/AquaticLif e/photos/ > album/243006836/ pi> > > > > > > > > <http://groups. yahoo.com/ group/AquaticLif e/photos/ > album/243006836/ pi > > > <http://groups. yahoo.com/ group/AquaticLif e/photos/ > album/243006836/ pi> > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > c/484754961/ view?picmode= &mode=tn& order=ordinal& start=41& > count=20& di > > > > > > > > > r=asc>> > > > > > > > > > > > And silly me I forgot to rotate it, LOL, I'll get a > > > > > > > > > > > rotated picture up soon ;) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Amber > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I think your Angelfish are a slightly different > > > > > > > > > > > > variant than the > > > > > > > > > normal > > > > > > > > > > > > species... maybe: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Pterophyllum scalare leporidae > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > > > > > > > > > > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com > > > <http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com> > > > > > <http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com <http://GoldLenny. blogspot. > com>> > > > > > > > <http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com <http://GoldLenny. > blogspot. com> > > > <http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com <http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com>>> > > > > > > > > > <http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com > > > <http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com> > > > > > > > > > <http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com > > > <http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com>> > > > > > <http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com <http://GoldLenny. blogspot. > com> > > > <http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com <http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com>>>> > > > > > > > > > > > <http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com > > > <http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com> > > > > > <http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com <http://GoldLenny. blogspot. > com>> > > > <http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com <http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com> > > > > > <http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com <http://GoldLenny. blogspot. > com>>> > > > > > > > <http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com <http://GoldLenny. > blogspot. com> > > > <http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com <http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com>> > > > > > <http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com <http://GoldLenny. blogspot. > com> > > > <http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com <http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com>>>>> > > > > > > > > > <http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com > > > <http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com> > > > > > > > > > <http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com > > > <http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com>> > > > > > <http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com <http://GoldLenny. blogspot. > com> > > > <http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com <http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com>>> > > > > > > > <http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com <http://GoldLenny. > blogspot. com> > > > <http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com <http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com>> > > > > > <http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com <http://GoldLenny. blogspot. > com> > > > <http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com <http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com>>>> > > > > > > > > > > > <http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com > > > <http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com> > > > > > <http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com <http://GoldLenny. blogspot. > com>> > > > <http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com <http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com> > > > > > <http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com <http://GoldLenny. blogspot. > com>>> > > > > > > > <http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com <http://GoldLenny. > blogspot. com> > > > <http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com <http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com>> > > > > > <http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com <http://GoldLenny. blogspot. > com> > > > <http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com <http://GoldLenny. blogspot. > com>>>>>> > > > > > > > > > > > > (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are > > > > > listed on > > > > > > > > > the right > > > > > > > > > > > > side, alphabetically under Labels and also under > > > > > > > > > > > > Archives by Year, > > > > > > > > > > > Month) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > > > > > > > > > > From: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com > > > <mailto:AquaticLife %40yahoogroups. com> > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife %40yahoogroups. com> > > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife %40yahoogroups. com> > > > > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife %40yahoogroups. com> > > > > > > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife %40yahoogroups. com> > > > > > > > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife %40yahoogroups. com> > > > > > > > > > > > > [mailto:AquaticLife @ yahoogroups. com > > > <mailto:AquaticLife %40yahoogroups. com> > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife %40yahoogroups. com> > > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife %40yahoogroups. com> > > > > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife %40yahoogroups. com> > > > > > > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife %40yahoogroups. com> > > > > > > > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife %40yahoogroups. com>] On > Behalf Of > > > > > > > > > > > > Amber Berglund > > > > > > > > > > > > Sent: Saturday, July 04, 2009 11:01 PM > > > > > > > > > > > > To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com > > > <mailto:AquaticLife %40yahoogroups. com> > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife %40yahoogroups. com> > > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife %40yahoogroups. com> > > > > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife %40yahoogroups. com> > > > > > > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife %40yahoogroups. com> > > > > > > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife %40yahoogroups. com> > > > > > > > > > > > > Subject: [AquaticLife] Everything is spawning I > swear! > > > > > > > > > > > > LOL > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Okay so the Angel's got used to their > environment and > > > > > > > > > > > > apparently > > > > > > > > > feel > > > > > > > > > > > > quite > > > > > > > > > > > > safe, unless I stick my face too close to the tank > > > > > > > > > > > > then they try to scare me off ;) Good thing I > did all > > > > > > > > > > > > the planting before this ;) I would > > > > > > > > > have > > > > > > > > > > > been > > > > > > > > > > > > dodging Angel's just to plant the plants in the tank > > > > > > > > > > > > ;) I figure > > > > > > > > > all the > > > > > > > > > > > > hornwort makes them feel more secure too. > > > > > > > > > > > > And of course, out of all the slate I put in the > tank > > > > > > > > > > > > for them, > > > > > > > > > where do > > > > > > > > > > > > they lay the eggs? On the filter intake.... LOL. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Amber > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ------------ --------- --------- ------ > > > > > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, > Thank You. > > > ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , > .·´¯`·..><((((º> > > > PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT > important to > > > the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the > > > SUBJECT > > > LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- > > > <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , > .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. > > > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. > > > > > > If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of > unsubscribing, you > > > can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My > Membership" on the > > > home page. > > > > > > Or e-mail aquaticlife- digest@yahoogrou ps.com > > > <mailto:aquaticlife -digest%40yahoog roups.com> to receive the > digest, which > > > includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email > > > > > > Or email aquaticlife- nomail@yahoogrou ps.com > > > <mailto:aquaticlife -nomail%40yahoog roups.com> for the No E-Mail > option > > > where > > > you will still be able to read messages on the group and post replies. > > > > > > Or email aquaticlife- normal@yahoogrou ps.com > > > <mailto:aquaticlife -normal%40yahoog roups.com> to receive individual > > > e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 41791	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 7/7/2009
Subject: Water change

Okay I think my fish (danio's and guppy's) want to swim upstream, every time I do a water change they try to swim up the python vacuum tube as it's pouring water into the tank, LOL. It's fun to watch, looks like they're having fun too, especially the danio's. It must be like a water rollercoaster to them. Amber

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 41792	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 7/7/2009
Subject: Re: Everything is spawning I swear! LOL

Had some of that (the tall version that's normally for ponds), but I think it died off when I trimmed it and replanted it into the walstad substrate, I can't find it in the tank, so I assume it either melted or died off. if I regrows I will transfer some to the 55 gallon with Angel's in it. Amber biG poppa wrote: > > > yes > > --- On Tue, 7/7/09, Amber Berglund <amber@... > <mailto:amber%40rose-fields.com>> wrote: > > From: Amber Berglund <amber@... > <mailto:amber%40rose-fields.com>> > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: Everything is spawning I swear! LOL > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Date: Tuesday, July 7, 2009, 6:36 PM > > Do you mean the stuff that looks like 4 leaf clovers? > > Amber > > biG poppa wrote: > > > > > > Amber > > hiya > > I think some froglip will work also..... > > > > --- On Tue, 7/7/09, Raymond Wetzel <sevenspringss@ wmconnect. com > > <mailto:sevenspring ss%40wmconnect. com>> wrote: > > > > From: Raymond Wetzel <sevenspringss@ wmconnect. com > > <mailto:sevenspring ss%40wmconnect. com>> > > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Everything is spawning I swear! LOL > > To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com <mailto:AquaticLife > %40yahoogroups. com> > > Date: Tuesday, July 7, 2009, 6:23 PM > > > > That could work! Ray > > > > --- In AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com, Amber Berglund <amber@...> wrote: > > > > > > I can plant a dwarf lilly that will grow floating leaves? The one in > > the > > > 125 gallon tank has tanken over half the tank with floating > leaves, the > > > plants under have actually started to grow better, I guess they like > > > less light (I think they're swords mostly, and one anubias, but > there's > > > one that I'm not sure of, maybe a narrow leaf sword?). > > > > > > Amber > > > > > > Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > Maybe put something to shade that part of the tank from the > > lighting? If > > > > you don't have enough floating plants in the area. Since it's the > > intake > > > > for an HOB (I think), the return water would likely push floating > > plants > > > > away from that area so you may need a piece of your slate or other > > > > material > > > > to block the light shining down on that area. > > > > > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com <http://GoldLenny. > > blogspot. com> > > > > (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the > > right > > > > side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, > > Month) > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > > From: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife %40yahoogroups. com> > > > > [mailto:AquaticLife @ yahoogroups. com > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife %40yahoogroups. com>] On > > > > Behalf Of Raymond Wetzel > > > > Sent: Tuesday, July 07, 2009 7:49 AM > > > > To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com <mailto:AquaticLife > > %40yahoogroups. com> > > > > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Everything is spawning I swear! LOL > > > > > > > > Yes, I can see that could be a problem which isn't often > > encountered when > > > > setting up a tank specifically for breeding Angels. I know > > breeding Angels > > > > is not your main concern, and I notice your mention of another Angel > > > > breeder > > > > using a Walstad tank set-up, but this is in the minority. Still, > > it would > > > > be interesting to see what they do. > > > > > > > > It's not the duration of the lighting that has an effect on them, > > but the > > > > intensity. You could cut the tank lighting back to one hour a day, > > but > > > > when > > > > exposed to that intensity for only a portion of that time, it's > often > > > > enough > > > > to induce them to eat the eggs. Hopefully, your pair will eventually > > > > overcome this self-defeating stimulus, and it appears somehow that > > this > > > > other "el natural" forum member's fish have gotten past this problem > > > > (possibly as a result of specific floating plants?). I did say > > that many > > > > Angels will eat their eggs under these conditions, but stopped > > short of > > > > saying "most" (only questioning that possibility) as I can't > > verify such a > > > > conclusion -- although such behavior is generally expected in > domestic > > > > Angels under such stimuli. > > > > > > > > There's a big difference between surface-floating plants such as > > Duckweed > > > > (floating water Sprite is excellent too), and free-floating > > Hornwort which > > > > is suspended in the water column. Fish such as Angels can swim under > > > > surface floating plants, which will provide some shading from the > > > > intensity > > > > of overhead light, but Hornwort grows as a blanket, often 6" o 8" > > thick -- > > > > which does not allow for tall fish to swim under it -- they swim > > > > around it. > > > > We'll see what this other person uses for plants, which may shed > some > > > > light > > > > on the subject (oops, sorry about that pun). Might just be that, > that > > > > person's fish have overcome that egg-eating problem from the start, > > > > and may > > > > just be a pair (or pairs) that are not prone to eating their eggs -- > > > > such as > > > > your pair is. > > > > > > > > I've seen another Angelfish breeder using planted tanks (with > > > > lighting) for > > > > their pairs, even though I don't believe they were Walstad tanks. > > She just > > > > preferred having the pairs raise their fry, and in a more natural > > setting. > > > > The "natural setting" part may have been more to her liking rather > > than to > > > > any preference of the fish, and I do recall she used floating > > plants, with > > > > low-light plants in the substrate. There's no way of knowing how > > often her > > > > pairs ate their eggs either until they got used to this > > environment. Ray > > > > > > > > --- In AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife %40yahoogroups. com>, Amber Berglund <amber@> > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > Well the problem is that it's a walstad natural planted tank, so I > > > > > need some lighting for the low light plants (mostly crypts, some > > java > > > > > fern windelov's, and one sword plant, a large one), and a lot of > > > > > duckweed and floating hornwort. I thought the hornwort would > subdue > > > > > the lighting enough, so I need a lot more? LOL. > > > > > I can set the lighting up to the minimum of 8 hours a day, but not > > > > > sure how well the plants will do with no added sunlight (walstad > > tanks > > > > > are supposed to get more lighting if they don't have added > > sunlight). > > > > > I will ask on the "el natural" forums about what other breeders > > do for > > > > > their Angel's I know at least one other person on there has a > > walstad > > > > > tank for their breeding angel's. > > > > > > > > > > Amber > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Raymond Wetzel wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > You keep the aquarium lights on during the spawning, egg tending > > > > > > period? This is a no-no as many (most?) domestic pairs will eat > > > > > > their eggs every time. I guess I didn't expect this practice > as I > > > > > > just thought that you probably read my posts on here concerning > > > > > > Angelfish breeding -- silly me, I guess I should never have > jumped > > > > > > to that conclusion <G>. > > > > > > > > > > > > Since you really don't intend on breeding them anyway, it really > > > > > > doesn't matter, but just be advised that as long as you keep the > > > > > > tank lights burning while the pair have eggs, or fry (especially > > > > > > wrigglers), the chances are not good that the fish will > leave the > > > > > > eggs untouched (uneaten). It's not so much that the glaring > > lighting > > > > > > spooks them, but the bright light all too well increases the > > fish's > > > > > > natural inclination to eat, when having to be confronted > > continously > > > > > > by the stimuli of the eggs looking increasingly like a food > source > > > > > > when its lit up so brightly as though in a deli-case. Under such > > > > > > conditions, this stimulus overtakes the fish's reproductive > > instinct > > > > > > at some point. Subdued lighting will not promote such > stimuli and > > > > > > the fish are found to retain their reproductive/ protective > > instincts > > > > > > much more firmly. Ray > > > > > > > > > > > > --- In AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife %40yahoogroups. com> > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife %40yahoogroups. com>, Amber Berglund > > <amber@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Okay my rabbit breeding Angel's have a piece of slate put > > over the > > > > > > > intake tube now, I put the tallest one there, hopefully they > > will > > > > > > > use it. I move the hornwort over to that side of the tank, I > > > > > > > figured > > > > > > because > > > > > > > it had higher lighting maybe that spooked them? I wish they > > would > > > > > > > have picked the other side though, LOL. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Amber > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > If they like spawning on reeds or other upright stalks of > > > > > > > > plants, > > > > > > why not > > > > > > > > get some 1/2" PVC pipe pieces, paint them greenish colored > > (with > > > > > > aquarium > > > > > > > > safe paint like 2-part epoxy paint... or maybe one of > them new > > > > > > > > Krylon plastic paints that bond with the plastic/PVC. .. but > > > > > > > > check to make > > > > > > sure > > > > > > > > others have used this with success first) and stand them > up in > > > > > > > > the > > > > > > back or > > > > > > > > corners. They would also be easy to remove if you decide > > to move > > > > > > the eggs > > > > > > > > to another tank for hatching. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > > > > > > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com > > > > <http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com> > > > > > > <http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com <http://GoldLenny. blogspot. > > com>> > > > > <http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com <http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com> > > > > > > <http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com <http://GoldLenny. blogspot. > > com>>> > > > > > > > > (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are > listed on > > > > > > > > the > > > > > > right > > > > > > > > side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by > > > > > > > > Year, > > > > > > Month) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > > > > > > From: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife %40yahoogroups. com> > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife %40yahoogroups. com> > > > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife %40yahoogroups. com> > > > > > > > > [mailto:AquaticLife @ yahoogroups. com > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife %40yahoogroups. com> > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife %40yahoogroups. com> > > > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife %40yahoogroups. com>] On Behalf Of > Raymond > > > > > > > > Wetzel > > > > > > > > Sent: Sunday, July 05, 2009 7:31 PM > > > > > > > > To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife %40yahoogroups. com> > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife %40yahoogroups. com> > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife %40yahoogroups. com> > > > > > > > > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Everything is spawning I > swear! LOL > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > There are people who will custom cut spawning slates for > > Angels. > > > > > > If you > > > > > > > > need a source for longer slates, let me know. I'll see if > > I can > > > > > > dig up the > > > > > > > > info for someone I used to make me a bunch a couple of years > > > > > > > > ago, > > > > > > hoping > > > > > > > > that they still make them. Ray > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > --- In AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife %40yahoogroups. com> > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife %40yahoogroups. com> > > > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife %40yahoogroups. com>, Amber Berglund > > <amber@> > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I covered the end of the intake tube in several layers of > > > > > > > > > nettting (that you get from a hardware store), I don't > know > > > > > > > > > how small it > > > > > > needs > > > > > > > > > to be but it's probably not small enough to protect > the fry > > > > > > > > > from > > > > > > being > > > > > > > > sucked up. > > > > > > > > > I can float the inserts in the filter in the tank to > > help keep > > > > > > > > > the bacteria alive, or I could put them back into > > another tank > > > > too. > > > > > > > > > I had slate leaning up against next to both sides of the > > > > > > > > > intake > > > > > > filter > > > > > > > > > hoping they might use them, I didn't think to lean the > > largest > > > > > > > > > one right up against the intake tube, I thought it would > > block > > > > > > > > > the > > > > > > flow too > > > > > > > > much. > > > > > > > > > Next time I'll try adding more slate to the tank, I had 2 > > > > > > > > > medium > > > > > > sized > > > > > > > > > pieces but I have more in my 125 gallon tank too, and > plenty > > > > > > > > outside, LOL. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Amber > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Raymond Wetzel wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Yes, this female is a Veiltail. Since, as I believe your > > > > > > intentions > > > > > > > > > > are to have the pair raise the fry, you'll not be > removing > > > > > > > > > > the > > > > > > eggs > > > > > > > > > > you'll then need to shut off the filter in about 6 days > > > > > > > > > > (from the time the eggs were laid). As part of the > pair's > > > > > > > > > > pre-spawning behaviorb of cleaning the spawning > site, you > > > > > > > > > > should not have been surprised that the filter > intake was > > > > > > > > > > chosen -- unless you missed that -- even if there were > > other > > > > > > > > > > sites they cleaned prior to > > > > > > selecting > > > > > > > > this. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Next time, just lean a spawning slate up against the > > filter > > > > > > > > > > intake if it reaches, so that the pair has no other > choice > > > > > > > > > > but to use the slate if they insist on using that > area. At > > > > > > > > > > least this way, you could then leave that slate > > (w/eggs) in > > > > > > > > > > position, but leaning up against the glass while you > > > > > > > > > > re-position the filter, and intake > > > > > > tube > > > > > > > > > > -- or move the slate a short distance provided they > don't > > > > > > > > > > get too > > > > > > > > freaked out by that. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Right now, the eggs will be safe from being drawn up > into > > > > > > > > > > the > > > > > > filter > > > > > > > > > > as their adhesion to the tube is fairly strong. After > > > > > > > > > > hatching, which takes about 3 days, this adhesion is > still > > > > > > > > > > fairly > > > > > > strong, but > > > > > > > > > > lessens with each proceeding day towards the > free-swimming > > > > > > > > > > stage (takes another 3 1/2 to usually closer to 4 days). > > > > > > > > > > You'll need to shut the filter down (or remove the > intake > > > > > > > > > > tube from it, > > > > > > moving it a > > > > > > > > > > short > > > > > > > > > > distance) early on the 3rd day to prevent the now > > > > > > > > > > less-adhesive wrigglers from being drawn up into the > > filter. > > > > > > > > > > As a reminder, complete shut down of the filter will > kill > > > > > > > > > > off your nitrifying bacteria unless you supply it > with an > > > > > > > > > > airstone. As you can see, it would have been so much > less > > > > > > > > > > complicated to have them spawn on a > > > > > > > > slate. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Some other early Angelfish breeders also used 1/2" > > diameter > > > > > > > > > > glass tubing (then obtained from a neon sign shop). > Rigid > > > > > > > > > > plastic tubing may also be used. This is either filled > > with > > > > > > > > > > green sand and capped off, or painted green inside then > > > > > > > > > > filled with plain sand. Angels prefer using such tubes, > > > > > > > > > > simulating natural reeds, even before > > > > > > using > > > > > > > > > > slates -- but it's usually best to supply them with > > several, > > > > > > > > > > as large spawns won't fit on one such site. As they > appear > > > > "solid" > > > > > > > > > > rather than clear, they'd much prefer to use them before > > > > > > > > > > filter intakes too. Ray > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > --- In AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife %40yahoogroups. com> > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife %40yahoogroups. com> > > > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife %40yahoogroups. com> > > > > > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife %40yahoogroups. com>, Amber Berglund > > > > > > <amber@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Okay I just uploaded a correctly rotated photo with > > just a > > > > > > > > > > > contrast touch up, now you won't have to turn your > > head to > > > > > > > > > > > look > > > > > > > > at her > > > > > > > > ;) LOL. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Amber > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Amber Berglund wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Did you check out my new photo of my female? She's > > very > > > > > > pretty I > > > > > > > > > > > > think she's what's called a veil tail? Maybe Ray can > > > > > > > > > > > > tell > > > > > > me for > > > > > > > > > > > > sure, I > > > > > > > > > > like > > > > > > > > > > > > her though. > > > > > > > > > > > > Just posted the photo to my photo album tonight. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > http://groups. yahoo.com/ group/AquaticLif e/photos/ > > album/243006836/ pic > > > > <http://groups. yahoo.com/ group/AquaticLif e/photos/ > > album/243006836/ pic> > > > > > > > > > > <http://groups. yahoo.com/ group/AquaticLif e/photos/ > > album/243006836/ pi > > > > <http://groups. yahoo.com/ group/AquaticLif e/photos/ > > album/243006836/ pi> > > > > > > c> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > <http://groups. yahoo.com/ group/AquaticLif e/photos/ > > album/243006836/ pi > > > > <http://groups. yahoo.com/ group/AquaticLif e/photos/ > > album/243006836/ pi> > > > > > > c > > > > > > > > > > <http://groups. yahoo.com/ group/AquaticLif e/photos/ > > album/243006836/ pi > > > > <http://groups. yahoo.com/ group/AquaticLif e/photos/ > > album/243006836/ pi> > > > > > > c>> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > /484754961/view? picmode=& mode=tn&order= ordinal&start= > > 41&count= 20&dir > > > > > > > > > > =asc > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > <http://groups. yahoo.com/ group/AquaticLif e/photos/ > > album/243006836/ pi > > > > <http://groups. yahoo.com/ group/AquaticLif e/photos/ > > album/243006836/ pi> > > > > > > > > > > <http://groups. yahoo.com/ group/AquaticLif e/photos/ > > album/243006836/ pi > > > > <http://groups. yahoo.com/ group/AquaticLif e/photos/ > > album/243006836/ pi> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > <http://groups. yahoo.com/ group/AquaticLif e/photos/ > > album/243006836/ pi > > > > <http://groups. yahoo.com/ group/AquaticLif e/photos/ > > album/243006836/ pi> > > > > > > > > > > <http://groups. yahoo.com/ group/AquaticLif e/photos/ > > album/243006836/ pi > > > > <http://groups. yahoo.com/ group/AquaticLif e/photos/ > > album/243006836/ pi> > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > c/484754961/ view?picmode= &mode=tn& order=ordinal& start=41& > > count=20& di > > > > > > > > > > r=asc> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > <http://groups. yahoo.com/ group/AquaticLif e/photos/ > > album/243006836/ pi > > > > <http://groups. yahoo.com/ group/AquaticLif e/photos/ > > album/243006836/ pi> > > > > > > > > > > <http://groups. yahoo.com/ group/AquaticLif e/photos/ > > album/243006836/ pi > > > > <http://groups. yahoo.com/ group/AquaticLif e/photos/ > > album/243006836/ pi> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > <http://groups. yahoo.com/ group/AquaticLif e/photos/ > > album/243006836/ pi > > > > <http://groups. yahoo.com/ group/AquaticLif e/photos/ > > album/243006836/ pi> > > > > > > > > > > <http://groups. yahoo.com/ group/AquaticLif e/photos/ > > album/243006836/ pi > > > > <http://groups. yahoo.com/ group/AquaticLif e/photos/ > > album/243006836/ pi> > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > c/484754961/ view?picmode= &mode=tn& order=ordinal& start=41& > > count=20& di > > > > > > > > > > r=asc > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > <http://groups. yahoo.com/ group/AquaticLif e/photos/ > > album/243006836/ pi > > > > <http://groups. yahoo.com/ group/AquaticLif e/photos/ > > album/243006836/ pi> > > > > > > > > > > <http://groups. yahoo.com/ group/AquaticLif e/photos/ > > album/243006836/ pi > > > > <http://groups. yahoo.com/ group/AquaticLif e/photos/ > > album/243006836/ pi> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > <http://groups. yahoo.com/ group/AquaticLif e/photos/ > > album/243006836/ pi > > > > <http://groups. yahoo.com/ group/AquaticLif e/photos/ > > album/243006836/ pi> > > > > > > > > > > <http://groups. yahoo.com/ group/AquaticLif e/photos/ > > album/243006836/ pi > > > > <http://groups. yahoo.com/ group/AquaticLif e/photos/ > > album/243006836/ pi> > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > c/484754961/ view?picmode= &mode=tn& order=ordinal& start=41& > > count=20& di > > > > > > > > > > r=asc>> > > > > > > > > > > > > And silly me I forgot to rotate it, LOL, I'll get a > > > > > > > > > > > > rotated picture up soon ;) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Amber > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I think your Angelfish are a slightly different > > > > > > > > > > > > > variant than the > > > > > > > > > > normal > > > > > > > > > > > > > species... maybe: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Pterophyllum scalare leporidae > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > > > > > > > > > > > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com > > > > <http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com> > > > > > > <http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com <http://GoldLenny. blogspot. > > com>> > > > > > > > > <http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com <http://GoldLenny. > > blogspot. com> > > > > <http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com <http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com>>> > > > > > > > > > > <http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com > > > > <http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com> > > > > > > > > > > <http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com > > > > <http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com>> > > > > > > <http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com <http://GoldLenny. blogspot. > > com> > > > > <http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com <http://GoldLenny. blogspot. > com>>>> > > > > > > > > > > > > <http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com > > > > <http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com> > > > > > > <http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com <http://GoldLenny. blogspot. > > com>> > > > > <http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com <http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com> > > > > > > <http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com <http://GoldLenny. blogspot. > > com>>> > > > > > > > > <http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com <http://GoldLenny. > > blogspot. com> > > > > <http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com <http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com>> > > > > > > <http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com <http://GoldLenny. blogspot. > > com> > > > > <http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com <http://GoldLenny. blogspot. > com>>>>> > > > > > > > > > > <http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com > > > > <http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com> > > > > > > > > > > <http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com > > > > <http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com>> > > > > > > <http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com <http://GoldLenny. blogspot. > > com> > > > > <http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com <http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com>>> > > > > > > > > <http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com <http://GoldLenny. > > blogspot. com> > > > > <http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com <http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com>> > > > > > > <http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com <http://GoldLenny. blogspot. > > com> > > > > <http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com <http://GoldLenny. blogspot. > com>>>> > > > > > > > > > > > > <http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com > > > > <http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com> > > > > > > <http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com <http://GoldLenny. blogspot. > > com>> > > > > <http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com <http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com> > > > > > > <http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com <http://GoldLenny. blogspot. > > com>>> > > > > > > > > <http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com <http://GoldLenny. > > blogspot. com> > > > > <http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com <http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com>> > > > > > > <http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com <http://GoldLenny. blogspot. > > com> > > > > <http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com <http://GoldLenny. blogspot. > > com>>>>>> > > > > > > > > > > > > > (Links to any articles referenced in above > reply are > > > > > > listed on > > > > > > > > > > the right > > > > > > > > > > > > > side, alphabetically under Labels and also under > > > > > > > > > > > > > Archives by Year, > > > > > > > > > > > > Month) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > > > > > > > > > > > From: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife %40yahoogroups. com> > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife %40yahoogroups. com> > > > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife %40yahoogroups. com> > > > > > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife %40yahoogroups. com> > > > > > > > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife %40yahoogroups. com> > > > > > > > > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife %40yahoogroups. com> > > > > > > > > > > > > > [mailto:AquaticLife @ yahoogroups. com > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife %40yahoogroups. com> > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife %40yahoogroups. com> > > > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife %40yahoogroups. com> > > > > > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife %40yahoogroups. com> > > > > > > > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife %40yahoogroups. com> > > > > > > > > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife %40yahoogroups. com>] On > > Behalf Of > > > > > > > > > > > > > Amber Berglund > > > > > > > > > > > > > Sent: Saturday, July 04, 2009 11:01 PM > > > > > > > > > > > > > To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife %40yahoogroups. com> > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife %40yahoogroups. com> > > > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife %40yahoogroups. com> > > > > > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife %40yahoogroups. com> > > > > > > > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife %40yahoogroups. com> > > > > > > > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife %40yahoogroups. com> > > > > > > > > > > > > > Subject: [AquaticLife] Everything is spawning I > > swear! > > > > > > > > > > > > > LOL > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Okay so the Angel's got used to their > > environment and > > > > > > > > > > > > > apparently > > > > > > > > > > feel > > > > > > > > > > > > > quite > > > > > > > > > > > > > safe, unless I stick my face too close to the tank > > > > > > > > > > > > > then they try to scare me off ;) Good thing I > > did all > > > > > > > > > > > > > the planting before this ;) I would > > > > > > > > > > have > > > > > > > > > > > > been > > > > > > > > > > > > > dodging Angel's just to plant the plants in > the tank > > > > > > > > > > > > > ;) I figure > > > > > > > > > > all the > > > > > > > > > > > > > hornwort makes them feel more secure too. > > > > > > > > > > > > > And of course, out of all the slate I put in the > > tank > > > > > > > > > > > > > for them, > > > > > > > > > > where do > > > > > > > > > > > > > they lay the eggs? On the filter intake.... LOL. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Amber > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ------------ --------- --------- ------ > > > > > > > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, > > Thank You. > > > > ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , > > .·´¯`·..><((((º> > > > > PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT > > important to > > > > the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the > > > > SUBJECT > > > > LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- > > > > <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , > > .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. > > > > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. > > > > > > > > If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of > > unsubscribing, you > > > > can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My > > Membership" on the > > > > home page. > > > > > > > > Or e-mail aquaticlife- digest@yahoogrou ps.com > > > > <mailto:aquaticlife -digest%40yahoog roups.com> to receive the > > digest, which > > > > includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email > > > > > > > > Or email aquaticlife- nomail@yahoogrou ps.com > > > > <mailto:aquaticlife -nomail%40yahoog roups.com> for the No E-Mail > > option > > > > where > > > > you will still be able to read messages on the group and post > replies. > > > > > > > > Or email aquaticlife- normal@yahoogrou ps.com > > > > <mailto:aquaticlife -normal%40yahoog roups.com> to receive > individual > > > > e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 41793	From: biG poppa	Date: 7/7/2009
Subject: Re: Water change

Amber same here with my danios and platys the love the gravel vacum..lol --- On Tue, 7/7/09, Amber Berglund <amber@...> wrote: From: Amber Berglund <amber@...> Subject: [AquaticLife] Water change To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Date: Tuesday, July 7, 2009, 6:41 PM Okay I think my fish (danio's and guppy's) want to swim upstream, every time I do a water change they try to swim up the python vacuum tube as it's pouring water into the tank, LOL. It's fun to watch, looks like they're having fun too, especially the danio's. It must be like a water rollercoaster to them. Amber [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 41794	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 7/7/2009
Subject: Re: Water change

When I refill from my Python, I do NOT have the tube in the water but rather have the top edge of the big tube inside the lip of the tank but the open end of the big tube is not in the water. This way, the water coming out of the Python has to splash into the tank. This helps outgas any gases out of the tap water and also helps to make sure the fish aren't coming into direct contact with chlorinated water. I add my dechlor to the tank when starting to refill it, as I am sure you do also. You should probably take steps to prevent the fish from swimming into the direct refilling water as it is still chlorinated at the highest level. Once it hits your tank's water, it gets diluted instantly and then the dechlor that you already added to the tank water will work almost instantly on any chlorine molecules. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Amber Berglund Sent: Tuesday, July 07, 2009 5:41 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Water change Okay I think my fish (danio's and guppy's) want to swim upstream, every time I do a water change they try to swim up the python vacuum tube as it's pouring water into the tank, LOL. It's fun to watch, looks like they're having fun too, especially the danio's. It must be like a water rollercoaster to them. Amber

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 41795	From: rcdtrc	Date: 7/7/2009
Subject: Hi i have a question

i have some parasites in my tank many actually and they are visible like 1 to 2 mm wide and up to a 1cm long what should i do to get rid of them i was thinking of changing the gravel

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 41796	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 7/7/2009
Subject: Re: Water change

Ahh, good point Lenny, thanks. Amber Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > > > When I refill from my Python, I do NOT have the tube in the water but > rather > have the top edge of the big tube inside the lip of the tank but the open > end of the big tube is not in the water. This way, the water coming out of > the Python has to splash into the tank. This helps outgas any gases out of > the tap water and also helps to make sure the fish aren't coming into > direct > contact with chlorinated water. I add my dechlor to the tank when starting > to refill it, as I am sure you do also. You should probably take steps to > prevent the fish from swimming into the direct refilling water as it is > still chlorinated at the highest level. Once it hits your tank's water, it > gets diluted instantly and then the dechlor that you already added to the > tank water will work almost instantly on any chlorine molecules. > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right > side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) > > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On > Behalf Of Amber Berglund > Sent: Tuesday, July 07, 2009 5:41 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Subject: [AquaticLife] Water change > > Okay I think my fish (danio's and guppy's) want to swim upstream, > every time > I do a water change they try to swim up the python vacuum tube as it's > pouring water into the tank, LOL. > It's fun to watch, looks like they're having fun too, especially the > danio's. It must be like a water rollercoaster to them. > > Amber > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 41797	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 7/7/2009
Subject: Re: Hi i have a question

Do you happen to have pictures or can you describe these "parasites"? They might just be natural ecology of a well fed fish tank, the more you feed the tank the more likely you are to get extra "scavengers" living in your tank. Amber rcdtrc wrote: > > > i have some parasites in my tank many actually and they are visible > like 1 to 2 mm wide and up to a 1cm long > what should i do to get rid of them > i was thinking of changing the gravel > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 41798	From: biG poppa	Date: 7/7/2009
Subject: Re: Water change

good point Lenny   But i was told long time ago that you had to vacuum the water nerest the gravel sense amonia is at higher level in the botton of the tank.. --- On Tue, 7/7/09, Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@...> wrote: From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@...> Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Water change To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Date: Tuesday, July 7, 2009, 6:47 PM When I refill from my Python, I do NOT have the tube in the water but rather have the top edge of the big tube inside the lip of the tank but the open end of the big tube is not in the water. This way, the water coming out of the Python has to splash into the tank. This helps outgas any gases out of the tap water and also helps to make sure the fish aren't coming into direct contact with chlorinated water. I add my dechlor to the tank when starting to refill it, as I am sure you do also. You should probably take steps to prevent the fish from swimming into the direct refilling water as it is still chlorinated at the highest level. Once it hits your tank's water, it gets diluted instantly and then the dechlor that you already added to the tank water will work almost instantly on any chlorine molecules. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com [mailto:AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com] On Behalf Of Amber Berglund Sent: Tuesday, July 07, 2009 5:41 PM To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com Subject: [AquaticLife] Water change Okay I think my fish (danio's and guppy's) want to swim upstream, every time I do a water change they try to swim up the python vacuum tube as it's pouring water into the tank, LOL. It's fun to watch, looks like they're having fun too, especially the danio's. It must be like a water rollercoaster to them. Amber [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 41799	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 7/7/2009
Subject: Re: Hi i have a question

What makes you think they are parasites? If this is a freshwater tank (give us more info on the tank and set up), they are likely Planaria, a harmless worm that lives in dirty gravel and they are opportunistic breeders which means that if you are seeing a lot of them, you are not vacuuming your gravel well enough during your normal tank maintenance. The more detritus and uneaten food that gets down into the gravel, the more planaria you will have. This detritus is also the breeding ground for bad bacteria so the Planaria are actually God's way of trying to clean up all the detritus but it's better if you speed things along. You will need to do a series of PWC's (25% partial water changes), one a day or no more than one every couple of hours and use your gravel vacuum and siphon deep into the gravel until the water coming up through the tube is nearly clear, then move the siphon tube to another spot. After 25% of the water has been removed, refill the tank with dechlor and similar temperature water. Wait at least a couple of hours before doing another PWC and keep doing them until you have vacuumed your gravel really good. DO NOT mess with your filter while doing this as you will need your fully "cycled" filter operating properly since this deep gravel vacuuming will disrupt some of the biological filtration that occurs with the nitrifying bacteria living on the surface of the gravel... but your main biological filtration (the nitrogen cycle) takes place in your filter system. If you haven't read my article on "Filter Maintenance And Cleaning", now would be a good time to do so. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of rcdtrc Sent: Tuesday, July 07, 2009 5:44 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Hi i have a question i have some parasites in my tank many actually and they are visible like 1 to 2 mm wide and up to a 1cm long what should i do to get rid of them i was thinking of changing the gravel

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 41800	From: greychildren	Date: 7/7/2009
Subject: extra equipment question

Hi hey guys i have all this extra equipment and i dont know what to with it..guys have eny ideas..i post it on trade groups no answer yet.. 1.Eclipse filter 3 packs K and C size quantity 5 2.Eclipse single light bulb 3.Optimus X-lrg Air pumps with ajustable knobs amount 5 used 4.uknown brand dual air pump X-large amount 2 5.A bang of T air conectors 6. Undergravel setups topfin 1 new with carbon filters new 2 used for 20g tanks i think

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 41801	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 7/7/2009
Subject: Re: Water change

We were talking about refilling. In another thread, I explained about Planaria (small worms) in the gravel and how you should vacuum DEEP into the gravel to get all of the decaying detritus out of the gravel during each 25% PWC. I'm not sure about ammonia being higher in the bottom of the tank unless they were saying that a lot of the ammonia emanates from the gravel from the decaying detritus. Certainly, the bottom of the tank and gravel is one of the dirtiest parts of a tank and thus should be vacuumed the heaviest to remove the detritus before it has a chance to decay until it becomes DOC's (dissolved organic compounds) in the water column and all the pollutants that come out of the decaying detritus. The filter is the second dirtiest part (or sometimes the dirtiest) so it should also be properly cleaned on a weekly (or more often if necessary) basis. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of biG poppa Sent: Tuesday, July 07, 2009 6:03 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Water change good point Lenny   But i was told long time ago that you had to vacuum the water nerest the gravel sense amonia is at higher level in the botton of the tank.. --- On Tue, 7/7/09, Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@...> wrote: From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@...> Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Water change To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Date: Tuesday, July 7, 2009, 6:47 PM When I refill from my Python, I do NOT have the tube in the water but rather have the top edge of the big tube inside the lip of the tank but the open end of the big tube is not in the water. This way, the water coming out of the Python has to splash into the tank. This helps outgas any gases out of the tap water and also helps to make sure the fish aren't coming into direct contact with chlorinated water. I add my dechlor to the tank when starting to refill it, as I am sure you do also. You should probably take steps to prevent the fish from swimming into the direct refilling water as it is still chlorinated at the highest level. Once it hits your tank's water, it gets diluted instantly and then the dechlor that you already added to the tank water will work almost instantly on any chlorine molecules. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com [mailto:AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com] On Behalf Of Amber Berglund Sent: Tuesday, July 07, 2009 5:41 PM To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com Subject: [AquaticLife] Water change Okay I think my fish (danio's and guppy's) want to swim upstream, every time I do a water change they try to swim up the python vacuum tube as it's pouring water into the tank, LOL. It's fun to watch, looks like they're having fun too, especially the danio's. It must be like a water rollercoaster to them. Amber

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 41802	From: biG poppa	Date: 7/7/2009
Subject: Re: Water change

My bad Lenny did not mean to offend you..I used simple gallon jugs to fill my 3 tanks.full using the conner of the tank..i place the remover inside the gallon jug before i fill it up. then pore inside the tank btw i shitch all my products to api.. --- On Tue, 7/7/09, Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@...> wrote: From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@...> Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Water change To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Date: Tuesday, July 7, 2009, 7:55 PM We were talking about refilling. In another thread, I explained about Planaria (small worms) in the gravel and how you should vacuum DEEP into the gravel to get all of the decaying detritus out of the gravel during each 25% PWC. I'm not sure about ammonia being higher in the bottom of the tank unless they were saying that a lot of the ammonia emanates from the gravel from the decaying detritus. Certainly, the bottom of the tank and gravel is one of the dirtiest parts of a tank and thus should be vacuumed the heaviest to remove the detritus before it has a chance to decay until it becomes DOC's (dissolved organic compounds) in the water column and all the pollutants that come out of the decaying detritus. The filter is the second dirtiest part (or sometimes the dirtiest) so it should also be properly cleaned on a weekly (or more often if necessary) basis. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com [mailto:AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com] On Behalf Of biG poppa Sent: Tuesday, July 07, 2009 6:03 PM To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Water change good point Lenny   But i was told long time ago that you had to vacuum the water nerest the gravel sense amonia is at higher level in the botton of the tank.. --- On Tue, 7/7/09, Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@gmail. com> wrote: From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@gmail. com> Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Water change To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com Date: Tuesday, July 7, 2009, 6:47 PM When I refill from my Python, I do NOT have the tube in the water but rather have the top edge of the big tube inside the lip of the tank but the open end of the big tube is not in the water. This way, the water coming out of the Python has to splash into the tank. This helps outgas any gases out of the tap water and also helps to make sure the fish aren't coming into direct contact with chlorinated water. I add my dechlor to the tank when starting to refill it, as I am sure you do also. You should probably take steps to prevent the fish from swimming into the direct refilling water as it is still chlorinated at the highest level. Once it hits your tank's water, it gets diluted instantly and then the dechlor that you already added to the tank water will work almost instantly on any chlorine molecules. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com [mailto:AquaticLife @ yahoogroups. com] On Behalf Of Amber Berglund Sent: Tuesday, July 07, 2009 5:41 PM To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com Subject: [AquaticLife] Water change Okay I think my fish (danio's and guppy's) want to swim upstream, every time I do a water change they try to swim up the python vacuum tube as it's pouring water into the tank, LOL. It's fun to watch, looks like they're having fun too, especially the danio's. It must be like a water rollercoaster to them. Amber [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 41803	From: Lisa Lawless	Date: 7/7/2009
Subject: Re; What happened

She's was dead. Not moulting.   Her arm was broken where it's attached to the body.   The shell was hard.   No loss of colour.   PH sits at around 6.8 - 7ppm (Brand is Aquarium Pharmaceuticals inc)   KH is ...71.6 (brand is API)   I remove most plastic ornaments when doing a gravel vac and pwc, so she definitely hadn't just moulted.   My boyfriend thinks she may have gotten into a fight with my albino male bn catfish. But to be honest, i think my yabby would have come out on top. So i doubt it   She had been missing for a couple of days, so i'd figured she'd just gone into hiding to shed, so i didn't worry too much. But i did my weekly pwc and gravel vac yesterday avo. And thats when i found her,   I now have live plants on driftwood, 1 dwarf anubias and what i think is an amazon sword; http://au.groups.yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife/photos/recent/1016132269/view   http://au.groups.yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife/photos/album/539675101/pic/426138442/view?picmode=&mode=tn&order=ordinal&start=1&count=20&dir=asc   As well as a scattering of Java moss   Lisa     ____________________________________________________________________________________ Access Yahoo!7 Mail on your mobile. Anytime. Anywhere. Show me how: http://au.mobile.yahoo.com/mail [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 41804	From: Donna Ransome	Date: 7/7/2009
Subject: Re: Water change

I think Lenny was talking about when he refills. You normally siphon from the bottom because you are also vacuuming the substrate. _____ From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of biG poppa Sent: Tuesday, July 07, 2009 7:03 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Water change good point Lenny But i was told long time ago that you had to vacuum the water nerest the gravel sense amonia is at higher level in the botton of the tank.. --- On Tue, 7/7/09, Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@gmail. <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com> com> wrote: From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@gmail. <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com> com> Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Water change To: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com Date: Tuesday, July 7, 2009, 6:47 PM When I refill from my Python, I do NOT have the tube in the water but rather have the top edge of the big tube inside the lip of the tank but the open end of the big tube is not in the water. This way, the water coming out of the Python has to splash into the tank. This helps outgas any gases out of the tap water and also helps to make sure the fish aren't coming into direct contact with chlorinated water. I add my dechlor to the tank when starting to refill it, as I am sure you do also. You should probably take steps to prevent the fish from swimming into the direct refilling water as it is still chlorinated at the highest level. Once it hits your tank's water, it gets diluted instantly and then the dechlor that you already added to the tank water will work almost instantly on any chlorine molecules. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com [mailto:AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com] On Behalf Of Amber Berglund Sent: Tuesday, July 07, 2009 5:41 PM To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com Subject: [AquaticLife] Water change Okay I think my fish (danio's and guppy's) want to swim upstream, every time I do a water change they try to swim up the python vacuum tube as it's pouring water into the tank, LOL. It's fun to watch, looks like they're having fun too, especially the danio's. It must be like a water rollercoaster to them. Amber [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 41805	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 7/7/2009
Subject: Re: Water change

No offense was taken or even perceived on my end. Yes, with your method of adding dechlor to the gallon jugs first and then pouring that into the tank, it's mostly OK for the fish to play in the incoming water. Amber and I were talking about the refill process using a Python Gravel Vacuum and Water Change tool and with that the water coming out of the Python, directly from the tap, has not been pre-treated with dechlor so you don't want the fish playing in that water directly out of the Python. As soon as the water mixes with the tank water, it is instantly dechlored but for that second before it is diluted and dechlored, it could be dangerous to the fish. My fish still like to come around the incoming water but at least by having it splashing into the tank water first, any chloramine/chlorine in the incoming tap water is diluted with the tank water and then dechlored by the pre-added dechlor dosage. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of biG poppa Sent: Tuesday, July 07, 2009 7:08 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Water change My bad Lenny did not mean to offend you..I used simple gallon jugs to fill my 3 tanks.full using the conner of the tank..i place the remover inside the gallon jug before i fill it up. then pore inside the tank btw i shitch all my products to api.. --- On Tue, 7/7/09, Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@...> wrote: From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@...> Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Water change To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Date: Tuesday, July 7, 2009, 7:55 PM We were talking about refilling. In another thread, I explained about Planaria (small worms) in the gravel and how you should vacuum DEEP into the gravel to get all of the decaying detritus out of the gravel during each 25% PWC. I'm not sure about ammonia being higher in the bottom of the tank unless they were saying that a lot of the ammonia emanates from the gravel from the decaying detritus. Certainly, the bottom of the tank and gravel is one of the dirtiest parts of a tank and thus should be vacuumed the heaviest to remove the detritus before it has a chance to decay until it becomes DOC's (dissolved organic compounds) in the water column and all the pollutants that come out of the decaying detritus. The filter is the second dirtiest part (or sometimes the dirtiest) so it should also be properly cleaned on a weekly (or more often if necessary) basis. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com [mailto:AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com] On Behalf Of biG poppa Sent: Tuesday, July 07, 2009 6:03 PM To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Water change good point Lenny   But i was told long time ago that you had to vacuum the water nerest the gravel sense amonia is at higher level in the botton of the tank.. --- On Tue, 7/7/09, Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@gmail. com> wrote: From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@gmail. com> Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Water change To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com Date: Tuesday, July 7, 2009, 6:47 PM When I refill from my Python, I do NOT have the tube in the water but rather have the top edge of the big tube inside the lip of the tank but the open end of the big tube is not in the water. This way, the water coming out of the Python has to splash into the tank. This helps outgas any gases out of the tap water and also helps to make sure the fish aren't coming into direct contact with chlorinated water. I add my dechlor to the tank when starting to refill it, as I am sure you do also. You should probably take steps to prevent the fish from swimming into the direct refilling water as it is still chlorinated at the highest level. Once it hits your tank's water, it gets diluted instantly and then the dechlor that you already added to the tank water will work almost instantly on any chlorine molecules. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com [mailto:AquaticLife @ yahoogroups. com] On Behalf Of Amber Berglund Sent: Tuesday, July 07, 2009 5:41 PM To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com Subject: [AquaticLife] Water change Okay I think my fish (danio's and guppy's) want to swim upstream, every time I do a water change they try to swim up the python vacuum tube as it's pouring water into the tank, LOL. It's fun to watch, looks like they're having fun too, especially the danio's. It must be like a water rollercoaster to them. Amber

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 41806	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 7/7/2009
Subject: Re: Re; What happened

While a BN Pleco is armored and might be able to defend itself to some degree, I don't think it would have been able to beat a crawfish to that degree... especially breaking one of it's claws. And the BN Pleco would likely show some damage to it's fins, at least. It sounds more like it must have gotten that claw caught on/under something and trying to free itself, broke the claw. Normally, if they break off a claw or leg, it will grow back but I guess something else could have gone wrong. Didn't you put a divider in the tank to separate the crawfish from the other fish (except for the BN Pleco)? Could he have gotten the claw caught in the separator somehow, while trying to snag a free meal from the other side? He could have broken his claw getting free and then went into hiding as part of their natural instincts to go into hiding when injured/sick, especially with an injured claw since their claws are their main defense. Then possibly, the broken claw was damaged enough so that some kind of bacteria/parasite was able to enter the crawfish's system and do the little guy in before he could heal up. Further, an injured animal will experience an elevated level of stress and we know that when our fish get stressed, their immune systems falter. I'm guessing the same could be true for the crawfish as well. Keep an eye on your nitrogen cycle. I know that earlier in this thread, you mentioned having an ammonia reading and 0.0ppm for nitrates where a functioning nitrogen cycle should have 0.0ppm for ammonia, 0.0ppm for nitrite and a constantly rising nitrate level that is kept in check with live plants, weekly PWC's, etc. You want to try and keep your nitrate level around 20ppm but up to 40ppm can/will occur right before your weekly tank maintenance. If you see it getting higher than 40-50ppm before doing weekly tank maintenance, then it means you have to do more frequent tank maintenance or take steps to lessen the bioload on the tank. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Lisa Lawless Sent: Tuesday, July 07, 2009 7:27 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Re; What happened She's was dead. Not moulting.   Her arm was broken where it's attached to the body.   The shell was hard.   No loss of colour.   PH sits at around 6.8 - 7ppm (Brand is Aquarium Pharmaceuticals inc)   KH is ...71.6 (brand is API)   I remove most plastic ornaments when doing a gravel vac and pwc, so she definitely hadn't just moulted.   My boyfriend thinks she may have gotten into a fight with my albino male bn catfish. But to be honest, i think my yabby would have come out on top. So i doubt it   She had been missing for a couple of days, so i'd figured she'd just gone into hiding to shed, so i didn't worry too much. But i did my weekly pwc and gravel vac yesterday avo. And thats when i found her,   I now have live plants on driftwood, 1 dwarf anubias and what i think is an amazon sword; http://au.groups.yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife/photos/recent/1016132269/view   http://au.groups.yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife/photos/album/539675101/pic/4261 38442/view?picmode=&mode=tn&order=ordinal&start=1&count=20&dir=asc   As well as a scattering of Java moss   Lisa

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 41807	From: footprint145	Date: 7/7/2009
Subject: Re: Bolivian Ram - larger tank

I think a longer tank would be preferable since Rams cohabitat closer to the bottom. I could try a higher tank. What are you requesting for it and where are you located? Thanks Allen --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Gail" <clandestine662002@...> wrote: > > Do you think one would work out in a 20 gallon? Its a tall 20 gallon, not a long 20 gallon > > thanks, > gail > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Byron" <bhosking@> wrote: > > > > As previous responders have noted, these are not appropriate fish for a 10g unless only one is kept. Unless you can move them to larger quarters, I would see if the store will take one (or both if you decide) back. This species is best kept as a single fish unless there is a lot of space. > > > > In their natural habitat (the Rio Mamore basin in SA) Mikrogeophagus altispinosa are found as lone individuals and it is believed that apart from spawning periods they live in isolation. Except when spawning, they rarely bother other fish in the aquarium, but as you have found out they are quite territorial with their own kind. I have a single specimen in my 90g with about 100 other small fish (characins, corys) and have never observed any aggression towards the other fish, other than slight annoyance once in a while at the persistence of the corys when tablet food is on the substrate; the Bolivian ram constantly searches the substrate for food. This is certainly a beautiful cichlid. > > > > In such a small environment I would not leave two of them together, as it is quite likely that the one that is harassed will be very stressed and sucumb to disease or poor health. > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "footprint145" <footprint145@> wrote: > > > > > > Hi aquarium enthusiast! I am new to the group, but not to the hobby. Started many moons ago w/ typical comm. tank (guppies, mollies, etc.) > > > I just started a 10G tank and was always interested in the Dwarf Cich. group - particularly RAMS!! I acquired 2 Bol.Rams and hoped to have sexed pair. NO luck! Anyway, the one dominant fish is constantly harassing the other to the point the harassed fish is getting little to eat. Should I be concerned, in such a small tank, or do you think time will weary the KING! > > > > > > Thanks, any info would be great! > > > Allen > > > > > > P.S. I now have them bout 3 weeks > > > > > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 41808	From: Lisa	Date: 7/7/2009
Subject: Re: Re; What happened

Hi Lenny. Took the divider out, cause it turned out my bn somehow managed to get out anyway. So i figured there wasn't much point to keeping it in there, if he was gonna do a fishy houdeni routine on a regular basis. And like i mentioned. I have high doubts that my bn caused fatal damage to the yabby I'l not get another yabby. But prehaps a companion bn for him of equil size, and maybe some male guppies for colour Trade in my rasboras and female guppies for store credit. Lisa

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 41809	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 7/7/2009
Subject: Re: Re; What happened

Be careful with multiple plecos in the same tank unless it has enough room. They have been known to be aggressive towards conspecifics (fish of the same species and/or similar fish) as they get older... usually over territorial disputes. A sufficiently sized tank will usually give each fish a chance to have its own territory. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Lisa Sent: Tuesday, July 07, 2009 9:39 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Re; What happened Hi Lenny. Took the divider out, cause it turned out my bn somehow managed to get out anyway. So i figured there wasn't much point to keeping it in there, if he was gonna do a fishy houdeni routine on a regular basis. And like i mentioned. I have high doubts that my bn caused fatal damage to the yabby I'l not get another yabby. But prehaps a companion bn for him of equil size, and maybe some male guppies for colour Trade in my rasboras and female guppies for store credit. Lisa ------------------------------------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the home page. Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com to receive the digest, which includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com for the No E-Mail option where you will still be able to read messages on the group and post replies. Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com to receive individual e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 41810	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 7/7/2009
Subject: agonogeton ulvaceus

I bought 2 of these, though I don't see 2 in the tank, perhaps one melted or something. Anyways one is doing VERY well, shooting up several new leaves and a long straight shoot that is sticking out of the water about an inch, will this grow something? I can't seem to find any pictures online of what that stick like part (grass-like maybe?) turns into. Is it just like a reed that sticks out of the surface? Anyone out there have one of these? http://www.plantgeek.net/plant-103.htm Amber

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 41811	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 7/7/2009
Subject: Question about foreground plants

Okay, now I know not many of you are too familiar with the walstad tanks other than what Lenny and I have talked about I think, and one other poster (sorry forget your name, my memory is horrible). Anyways, I'm looking for foreground grass like or similar ground cover plant anyways (doesn't need to be grass like), for the 125 gallon tank mostly (the other tanks need some but it's the 125 gallon where I have problems deciding what plants will survive). Between the lighting and the substrate is roughly 26 inches distance, that's a lot of distance to travel for even higher lighted CFL bulbs, I could perhaps lower the bulbs a little but not by more than a couple of inches, and then I would have to put a protective cover over them as the person that built it left out that feature and just placed the bulbs up higher to compensate ;) I don't really want to upgrade to higher penetrating lighting such as metal halides and such as they put off more heat and it's hard enough to keep the tank under 80, LOL. Warmish summer and the tank is above the heater, so year round the heater inside the tank really doesn't do much work lets put it that way ;) There's 4 x 65 watts of CFL lighting on the tank, but I don't know if it penetrates far enough for a higher required lighting plant such as dwarf tears (which I love the look of). I'm going to try the dwarf tears again, even though the last one melted (died), I guess I'm persistent, LOL. I'm going to put it in the 55 tank upstairs with the higher lighting and new walstad substrate. Hopefully this time it will do okay. I'm looking for a seller that sells them on lava rocks not in a chunk of rock wool. The 125 gallon tank needs more plants, I've added java moss, some hornwort and of course the lily that's invading the tank, but I figure that means it's happy ;) LOL. But I'd love some sort of ground cover that can get enough light on at least one half of the tank (the lily only grows on one side due to the water flow in the tank). Amber

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 41812	From: Menagerie_Manager	Date: 7/7/2009
Subject: Re: OT- kitten update

Final one, I promise! We solved the constipation problem with half strength Benefiber! Darn, now I have to clean poopies off his behind, lol. Li'l Tyke has a home waiting for him once he gratuates to drinking from a saucer. He'll probably be called Bear, with suits him. He haz a fierce when he's not happy and he snuggles like a Teddy bear when he's content. He's the purringest thing I ever met. Over and out! DebR and the Three Goldfish (CB, Lucille, and Raven)

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 41813	From: Lisa	Date: 7/8/2009
Subject: Re: Re; What happened

Oh okay. Would two albinos be okay in a 22gal? Or if i can get a female albino somehow, that would be better. I'd likely have to special order an older female... My lfs sells the albinos for more then the normal coloured ones. So if i bred them and raised the fry right, i could get good credit for trading the jouviniles. I read today on the net, that albinos are caused by the eggs being exposed to exessive light. And that the male is the one to tend to the eggs in a cave for up to 10 days, by fanning the eggs with his fins, and defends them from other tank mates, often times not feeding himself for days, or seldom coming out for a quick nibble, only to return quickly. Lisa

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 41814	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 7/8/2009
Subject: Re: Re; What happened

Did you save the link to where you read about albino's being caused by excessive light? From a purely scientific/genetic standpoint, I don't see how this would be possible but I'd be interested in seeing who wrote that and what it was based on. Personally, I don't see how this would be possible. Genetically speaking, in simple terms, one or both parents would have to have an albino gene in their DNA for offspring to have a chance at being albino. I'm sure breeders have increased their chances of having albino offspring by having both parents being albino's but still, the majority of the babies would have normal pigmentation. This is why albino fish sell for more money... basic supply and demand economics. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Albinism Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Lisa Sent: Wednesday, July 08, 2009 4:20 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Re; What happened Oh okay. Would two albinos be okay in a 22gal? Or if i can get a female albino somehow, that would be better. I'd likely have to special order an older female... My lfs sells the albinos for more then the normal coloured ones. So if i bred them and raised the fry right, i could get good credit for trading the jouviniles. I read today on the net, that albinos are caused by the eggs being exposed to exessive light. And that the male is the one to tend to the eggs in a cave for up to 10 days, by fanning the eggs with his fins, and defends them from other tank mates, often times not feeding himself for days, or seldom coming out for a quick nibble, only to return quickly. Lisa

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 41815	From: Gail	Date: 7/8/2009
Subject: Re: Bolivian Ram - larger tank

I am just curious about Rams. I only have a clown pleco as a bottom feeder in that tank and 3 or 4 fish in it. I live in Salt Lake City, Ut thanks, gail -- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "footprint145" <footprint145@...> wrote: > > I think a longer tank would be preferable since Rams cohabitat closer to the bottom. I could try a higher tank. What are you requesting for it and where are you located? > > Thanks > Allen >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 41816	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 7/8/2009
Subject: Re: Bolivian Ram - larger tank

What size tank? What are your tap water baseline parameters? What are the other "3 or 4 fish"? Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Gail Sent: Wednesday, July 08, 2009 10:01 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Bolivian Ram - larger tank I am just curious about Rams. I only have a clown pleco as a bottom feeder in that tank and 3 or 4 fish in it. I live in Salt Lake City, Ut thanks, gail -- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "footprint145" <footprint145@...> wrote: > > I think a longer tank would be preferable since Rams cohabitat closer to the bottom. I could try a higher tank. What are you requesting for it and where are you located? > > Thanks > Allen >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 41817	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 7/8/2009
Subject: Re: agonogeton ulvaceus

While I still like PlantGeek.net and especially their pre-formatted searches for Easy and Very Easy plants, Low-light plants, etc., they need to start beefing up their profiles. Other sites are starting to put together nice plant profile databases. I also like this site for plant profiles... http://www.plantedtank.net/forums/myplants/178-Aponogeton_ulvaceus_Aponogeto n_ulvaceus.html This thread on The Krib includes a picture of the "flower" that could grow from stem as well as a LOT of comments. http://www.thekrib.com/Plants/Plants/Aponogeton.html Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Amber Berglund Sent: Tuesday, July 07, 2009 10:55 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] agonogeton ulvaceus I bought 2 of these, though I don't see 2 in the tank, perhaps one melted or something. Anyways one is doing VERY well, shooting up several new leaves and a long straight shoot that is sticking out of the water about an inch, will this grow something? I can't seem to find any pictures online of what that stick like part (grass-like maybe?) turns into. Is it just like a reed that sticks out of the surface? Anyone out there have one of these? http://www.plantgeek.net/plant-103.htm Amber

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 41818	From: Bob Cutrupi	Date: 7/8/2009
Subject: Koi pond problem

Hi, I'm a new member and I have a big prob;em with my koi pond. I live in NJ and have had 2 Koi ponds for 10 years. Recently I have had a major problem with my big pond. Its a 5000 gallon pond. The fish in the pond are 5-8 years old. Most are 18-24 inches long and very healthy. A third of the fish are actually babies that grew up. The pond has maintained 23 large fish for many years. I have had no deaths until recently. In June 2009 I bought a used Bead Filter that was used by a pond store indoors. I always had ultraviolet lights - but I decided to add a new unit with 6 bulbs. I use a skimmer as well. I dont over feed them - once or twice a day - as much as they can eat in 2-3 minutes. The water never looked better. In the last week I have lost 10 of my 23 Koi. I started treating my pond with Melafix 2 days ago. Three fish died since the treatment started but I believe they were already weakened. I bought a testing kit and before I added any Melafix I got the following results: 1) pH - 8.0 2) Amonia - 0 3) Nitrite - 0 4) Salt .50 5) Phosphate - . 50 6) KH - 135 ppm I added a little more salt then started treating with Melafix. Today I added a broad spectrum antibiotic that turned the water blue. Do you think my fish could have caught something from the used bead filter? My little pond is doing great and its next to the infected pond. I have made sure not to use any nets or equipment that is used in the big pond. I am going to have a necropsy done on the next fish that dies. Any advice you can give me would be highly appreciated. Thank you, Bob Cutrupi

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 41819	From: Byron	Date: 7/8/2009
Subject: Re: Bolivian Ram - larger tank

I would agree that more surface area (substrate) is preferable over height. These fish constantly swim close to the bottom searching for bits of food, and in my experience they travel the entire area of the substrate. Having a larger area divided with bogwood, rocks and plants seems to make them feel at home. They're down there like the corys. --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "footprint145" <footprint145@...> wrote: > > I think a longer tank would be preferable since Rams cohabitat closer to the bottom. I could try a higher tank. What are you requesting for it and where are you located? > > Thanks > Allen > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Gail" <clandestine662002@> wrote: > > > > Do you think one would work out in a 20 gallon? Its a tall 20 gallon, not a long 20 gallon > > > > thanks, > > gail > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Byron" <bhosking@> wrote: > > > > > > As previous responders have noted, these are not appropriate fish for a 10g unless only one is kept. Unless you can move them to larger quarters, I would see if the store will take one (or both if you decide) back. This species is best kept as a single fish unless there is a lot of space. > > > > > > In their natural habitat (the Rio Mamore basin in SA) Mikrogeophagus altispinosa are found as lone individuals and it is believed that apart from spawning periods they live in isolation. Except when spawning, they rarely bother other fish in the aquarium, but as you have found out they are quite territorial with their own kind. I have a single specimen in my 90g with about 100 other small fish (characins, corys) and have never observed any aggression towards the other fish, other than slight annoyance once in a while at the persistence of the corys when tablet food is on the substrate; the Bolivian ram constantly searches the substrate for food. This is certainly a beautiful cichlid. > > > > > > In such a small environment I would not leave two of them together, as it is quite likely that the one that is harassed will be very stressed and sucumb to disease or poor health. > > > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "footprint145" <footprint145@> wrote: > > > > > > > > Hi aquarium enthusiast! I am new to the group, but not to the hobby. Started many moons ago w/ typical comm. tank (guppies, mollies, etc.) > > > > I just started a 10G tank and was always interested in the Dwarf Cich. group - particularly RAMS!! I acquired 2 Bol.Rams and hoped to have sexed pair. NO luck! Anyway, the one dominant fish is constantly harassing the other to the point the harassed fish is getting little to eat. Should I be concerned, in such a small tank, or do you think time will weary the KING! > > > > > > > > Thanks, any info would be great! > > > > Allen > > > > > > > > P.S. I now have them bout 3 weeks > > > > > > > > > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 41820	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 7/8/2009
Subject: Re: Koi pond problem

What kinds of symptoms are the fish showing before/after they die? If you do not know what is causing your fish kills, then throwing all of the medicines in the water could be making things worse. I noticed you do not have a nitrate test result. Do you have a nitrate test kit? Nitrate is the end product of the nitrogen cycle (ammonia>nitrite>nitrate). 23 Koi in a 5,000G pond is overstocked. While it may have worked in the early years, when the fish were smaller, as the fish grow, the water volume simply may not be able to handle the bioload. Fish like goldfish and Koi actually increase their body mass by EIGHT times for each time they double in length so a SINGLE 24" Koi is not equal to two 12" Koi, but rather EIGHT 12" Koi, 64 6" Koi, OVER 500 3" Koi. Since you should allow at least 300G per Koi (500G is better), your pond should only have 10-15 (at most). This means you have around twice as many fish as you should have. Once again, while it worked in the early years, you would have to increase your pond maintenance by EIGHT times for each time they fish doubled in size if you wanted to keep their water quality at the same level. It's good that your pH (8.0) and KH (135ppm) are staying up but you need to test your pond in the morning and then late at night for pH to see if you are having possible crashes. What is your pond maintenance schedule like? How often do you do PWC's (partial water changes) and what percentage? How often do you do PROPER filter cleaning/maintenance? Do you have a problem with detritus (fish waste, leaves, etc.) building up on the bottom? Is the pond planted? Even if it isn't, there is still a lot of algae and this algae, whether growing on surfaces or suspended helps to keep the water clean (by eating nitrogenous and phosphorous compounds), using up CO2 (carbon dioxide) and putting out O2 (oxygen). There is a chance that if you had suspended algae (some folks call it a problem but it's actually God's way of trying to save the fish), when you added the new UV filtration, it could have killed off all of the suspended algae which would have then caused higher CO2 levels and lower O2 levels. Did you notice fish gasping? See my blog for the "Sick Fish Questionnaire" (actually I redid it so it's the newest article) and answer as many questions as you can... many of which I already asked above. AND YES... if you did not clean/sterilize that used filter before adding it to your pond, you very well could have introduced a new bacteria/parasite that your fish were not resistant to but this is not guaranteed unless the fish are showing signs of a disease or parasite issue. Further, it's NOT GOOD to mix medicines unless they are known to be safe for mixing. You could be doing more harm than good. What is the brand/type of "broad spectrum antibiotic"? Did you do a series of PWC's on the pond to remove the salt and Melafix prior to adding this antibiotic? Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Bob Cutrupi Sent: Wednesday, July 08, 2009 11:10 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Koi pond problem Hi, I'm a new member and I have a big prob;em with my koi pond. I live in NJ and have had 2 Koi ponds for 10 years. Recently I have had a major problem with my big pond. Its a 5000 gallon pond. The fish in the pond are 5-8 years old. Most are 18-24 inches long and very healthy. A third of the fish are actually babies that grew up. The pond has maintained 23 large fish for many years. I have had no deaths until recently. In June 2009 I bought a used Bead Filter that was used by a pond store indoors. I always had ultraviolet lights - but I decided to add a new unit with 6 bulbs. I use a skimmer as well. I dont over feed them - once or twice a day - as much as they can eat in 2-3 minutes. The water never looked better. In the last week I have lost 10 of my 23 Koi. I started treating my pond with Melafix 2 days ago. Three fish died since the treatment started but I believe they were already weakened. I bought a testing kit and before I added any Melafix I got the following results: 1) pH - 8.0 2) Amonia - 0 3) Nitrite - 0 4) Salt .50 5) Phosphate - . 50 6) KH - 135 ppm I added a little more salt then started treating with Melafix. Today I added a broad spectrum antibiotic that turned the water blue. Do you think my fish could have caught something from the used bead filter? My little pond is doing great and its next to the infected pond. I have made sure not to use any nets or equipment that is used in the big pond. I am going to have a necropsy done on the next fish that dies. Any advice you can give me would be highly appreciated. Thank you, Bob Cutrupi

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 41821	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 7/8/2009
Subject: Re: agonogeton ulvaceus

So it grows a flower similar to the madagascar lace from the looks of it. I bought one that was already blooming from my LFS and of course the bloom died right after I bought it ;) LOL. Thanks for the links Lenny Amber Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > > > While I still like PlantGeek.net and especially their pre-formatted > searches > for Easy and Very Easy plants, Low-light plants, etc., they need to start > beefing up their profiles. Other sites are starting to put together nice > plant profile databases. > > I also like this site for plant profiles... > http://www.plantedtank.net/forums/myplants/178-Aponogeton_ulvaceus_Aponogeto > <http://www.plantedtank.net/forums/myplants/178-Aponogeton_ulvaceus_Aponogeto> > n_ulvaceus.html > > This thread on The Krib includes a picture of the "flower" that could grow > from stem as well as a LOT of comments. > http://www.thekrib.com/Plants/Plants/Aponogeton.html > <http://www.thekrib.com/Plants/Plants/Aponogeton.html> > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right > side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On > Behalf Of Amber Berglund > Sent: Tuesday, July 07, 2009 10:55 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Subject: [AquaticLife] agonogeton ulvaceus > > I bought 2 of these, though I don't see 2 in the tank, perhaps one > melted or > something. Anyways one is doing VERY well, shooting up several new leaves > and a long straight shoot that is sticking out of the water about an inch, > will this grow something? I can't seem to find any pictures online of what > that stick like part (grass-like maybe?) turns into. Is it just like a > reed > that sticks out of the surface? > Anyone out there have one of these? > http://www.plantgeek.net/plant-103.htm > <http://www.plantgeek.net/plant-103.htm> > > Amber > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 41822	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 7/8/2009
Subject: Snails (Haha!)

Another post about snails ;) LOL I just got mine today, took a few pics of them having their first meal, pretty dark purple even as young one's, most are under a marble size, one is like a 1/4 of an inch in diameter, it's so cute. LOL. They move pretty fast, I'm surprised, I guess I expected slugs or something, LOL. Will post some pics to the group later after work, just had to share how cute they are ;) Amber

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 41823	From: biG poppa	Date: 7/8/2009
Subject: Re: Snails (Haha!)

hi Amber yes a post!! i have tons of snail..my clown loaches love em --- On Wed, 7/8/09, Amber Berglund <amber@...> wrote: From: Amber Berglund <amber@...> Subject: [AquaticLife] Snails (Haha!) To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Date: Wednesday, July 8, 2009, 6:03 PM Another post about snails ;) LOL I just got mine today, took a few pics of them having their first meal, pretty dark purple even as young one's, most are under a marble size, one is like a 1/4 of an inch in diameter, it's so cute. LOL. They move pretty fast, I'm surprised, I guess I expected slugs or something, LOL. Will post some pics to the group later after work, just had to share how cute they are ;) Amber [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 41824	From: Lisa	Date: 7/8/2009
Subject: Re: Re; What happened

Scroll down to the 'in the aquarium' section http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ancistrus#In_the_aquarium Lisa --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@...> wrote: > > Did you save the link to where you read about albino's being caused by > excessive light?

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 41825	From: biG poppa	Date: 7/8/2009
Subject: Re: Re; What happened

First time i hear about this..........I did not know --- On Wed, 7/8/09, Lisa <lisa_lawless2004@...> wrote: From: Lisa <lisa_lawless2004@...> Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Re; What happened To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Date: Wednesday, July 8, 2009, 9:15 PM Scroll down to the 'in the aquarium' section http://en.wikipedia .org/wiki/ Ancistrus# In_the_aquarium Lisa --- In AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com, "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@. ..> wrote: > > Did you save the link to where you read about albino's being caused by > excessive light? [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 41826	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 7/8/2009
Subject: Snails again

Okay so I uploaded a photo of the happy little guys munching away, I will add more later of course (I took more just have to look through and see which ones turned out). They are in my groups folder (Amber Berglund) Obviously the top file, when they are approved, if you are impatient and want to see them sooner I have flickr pics being currently uploaded ;) LOL. http://www.flickr.com/photos/spamber/3703524712/ Amber

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 41827	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 7/8/2009
Subject: Re: Re; What happened

Ahhh.. that explains it. Wikipedia can oftentimes be a good starting point for information, BUT you should always check ALL of the references listed and read each of them. When reading any reference source, always look for comments that are opinion versus science based. Also look at the websites that I regularly refer folks to like Mongabay.com, TheKrib.com, BadmansTropicalFish.com, AmericanAquariumProducts.com, PlanetCatfish.com and of course MY blog! ;-) Those sites are reliable sources of good information. Here is something that I often do when searching for information. I will put in the key words I am searching for and I will also include the key word mongabay or thekrib so that Google or your preferred search engine will find pages, usually on those sites. For example, if I wanted information on livebearers, I would open a Google search page, type in "livebearers mongabay" (without the quotes) and the top hit from Google will be to Mongabay's profile and care sheet on livebearers... http://fish.mongabay.com/livebearers.htm and in the first paragraph on that page, click Poeciliidae, which is the family covering Guppys, Platys and Mollys, http://fish.mongabay.com/poeciliidae.htm. If you typed in Google, "badmanstropicalfish livebearers" (without quotes), you will see the top hit is his page on livebearers, http://badmanstropicalfish.com/liveb.html. TheKrib.com doesn't have a page about livebearers but instead breaks them up into their groups like Molly, Guppy, etc. Further, back to the Wikipedia article, if you read that statement, "It is thought that the eggs of the bristle-nosed pleco are light sensitive, albino fish may be the result of exposure to excesive light.", I'm not sure it is saying what it appears to be saying... if that makes any sense. The key words are "It is thought" which means there is no scientific evidence and possibly only the author's conjecture. While many albino fish are sensitive to bright lights, not all of them are and for the most part, catfish in general do not like bright lights. I'm not sure if eggs from albino fish would be any more sensitive to bright light than eggs from normally pigmented fish, especially since many of the eggs from two albino parents will still turn out with normal pigmentation since it's a recessive gene. I'm almost thinking that the comment is missing a word since it doesn't read fluidly IMO. Possibly, they meant to say something to the effect that the eggs that are carrying albino embryos may be more likely to not hatch under bright lighting. That, while I'm not sure if it is proven scientifically, would be more likely to be something I might believe. It would have been nice if he would have put corresponding reference numbers next to certain comments so one could read the full article. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Lisa Sent: Wednesday, July 08, 2009 8:15 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Re; What happened Scroll down to the 'in the aquarium' section http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ancistrus#In_the_aquarium Lisa --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@...> wrote: > > Did you save the link to where you read about albino's being caused by > excessive light?

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 41828	From: rcdtrc	Date: 7/8/2009
Subject: Re: Hi i have a question

Thank you, they are planaria, i know i don't over feed my fish since i feed them every 2 to 3 days i clean the tank at least once a week and its about a 25% water change ill try doing more frequent changes --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@...> wrote: > > What makes you think they are parasites? If this is a freshwater tank (give > us more info on the tank and set up), they are likely Planaria, a harmless > worm that lives in dirty gravel and they are opportunistic breeders which > means that if you are seeing a lot of them, you are not vacuuming your > gravel well enough during your normal tank maintenance. The more detritus > and uneaten food that gets down into the gravel, the more planaria you will > have. This detritus is also the breeding ground for bad bacteria so the > Planaria are actually God's way of trying to clean up all the detritus but > it's better if you speed things along. > > You will need to do a series of PWC's (25% partial water changes), one a day > or no more than one every couple of hours and use your gravel vacuum and > siphon deep into the gravel until the water coming up through the tube is > nearly clear, then move the siphon tube to another spot. After 25% of the > water has been removed, refill the tank with dechlor and similar temperature > water. Wait at least a couple of hours before doing another PWC and keep > doing them until you have vacuumed your gravel really good. DO NOT mess > with your filter while doing this as you will need your fully "cycled" > filter operating properly since this deep gravel vacuuming will disrupt some > of the biological filtration that occurs with the nitrifying bacteria living > on the surface of the gravel... but your main biological filtration (the > nitrogen cycle) takes place in your filter system. > > If you haven't read my article on "Filter Maintenance And Cleaning", now > would be a good time to do so. > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right > side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) > > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On > Behalf Of rcdtrc > Sent: Tuesday, July 07, 2009 5:44 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Subject: [AquaticLife] Hi i have a question > > i have some parasites in my tank many actually and they are visible like 1 > to 2 mm wide and up to a 1cm long what should i do to get rid of them i was > thinking of changing the gravel >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 41829	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 7/8/2009
Subject: Re: Snails again

OMG... Amber started her own photo album on Flickr!!! And 136 uploads already. Didn't you also upload a pic to your album in the group's photo section? Yep, you did! So... why did you call yourself Spamber on Flickr? And is your hubby Irish? All you need is some Gold Mystery Snails now and teach them to grow purple and gold spiraled shells and we could sell thousands down here... called "Fightin' Tiger Snails"... to all of our rabid LSU Tiger fans. The baseball team just won the national championship last month... I think for the 7th time and the football team has been national champs a few times and SEC champs MANY times. OK.. enough on bragging about our Fightin' Tigers!!! GEAUX TIGERS!!!! (That's pronounced GO, not ge-a-ux. It's a Cajun/Coonass thing! LOL Remember, while online photo albums are fine, ALWAYS have a backup. Over the years, many free and paid for online photo albums have been lost when the company went belly-up or just decided to do away with the service. Yahoo use to have Yahoo Photos and bought out Flickr and sent folks emails telling them to migrate their photos over to their new Flickr album but some folks never got the message and lost all of their photos. This also happens with other services. Yahoo has been doing away with LOTS of services. GeoCities is the next BIG one to go. I had dozens of web pages on GeoCities from back in the 90's that will all be gone soon.. if they aren't gone already. I have saved copies onto my computer but haven't decided if I will put them back up on the net again since they were from my old business. The good news is that many web pages that are lost from their original hosting service can still be found on the Internet Wayback Machine which archives copies of nearly ever web page created if it stays up on the net for a certain period of time. They do not archive online photo albums but they do archive the photos that are on web pages themselves. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Amber Berglund Sent: Wednesday, July 08, 2009 11:44 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Snails again Okay so I uploaded a photo of the happy little guys munching away, I will add more later of course (I took more just have to look through and see which ones turned out). They are in my groups folder (Amber Berglund) Obviously the top file, when they are approved, if you are impatient and want to see them sooner I have flickr pics being currently uploaded ;) LOL. http://www.flickr.com/photos/spamber/3703524712/ Amber

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 41830	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 7/8/2009
Subject: Re: Hi i have a question

Do you use a gravel vacuum? Is your tank planted? If you are doing weekly PWCs and vacuuming your gravel every week, then you should not be getting planaria... unless you aren't vacuuming the gravel deep enough. If you have a planted tank, I understand not being able to shove the siphon tube deep into the gravel and it doesn't sound like you are over-feeding them. I feed my fish a couple times a day but only enough that they eat it all quickly... most of it before it hits the bottom... except for the sinking foods meant for the bottom feeders. The only tank that I have planaria in is my Cherry Shrimp tank and that is because I can't vacuum the gravel well since I always have lots of baby Cherry Shrimp running around. I consider the Planaria part of my clean up crew along with the snails. It's just a part of the natural ecology in that tank. I put a filter media bag over the siphon intake tube and then use a plastic wand to stir up the gravel while sucking up as much detritus as I can with each PWC. The rest, I leave to the snails and planaria. It works for me and my original 25 Cherry Shrimp have produced hundreds of babies over the past 2+ years. I don't know the exact count but I bring batches of 25-50 at a time to my LFS for store credit and I constantly have 10-20 adults and lots of babies running around in that 10G heavily planted tank. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of rcdtrc Sent: Wednesday, July 08, 2009 2:08 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Hi i have a question Thank you, they are planaria, i know i don't over feed my fish since i feed them every 2 to 3 days i clean the tank at least once a week and its about a 25% water change ill try doing more frequent changes --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@...> wrote: > > What makes you think they are parasites? If this is a freshwater tank > (give us more info on the tank and set up), they are likely Planaria, > a harmless worm that lives in dirty gravel and they are opportunistic > breeders which means that if you are seeing a lot of them, you are not > vacuuming your gravel well enough during your normal tank maintenance. > The more detritus and uneaten food that gets down into the gravel, the > more planaria you will have. This detritus is also the breeding > ground for bad bacteria so the Planaria are actually God's way of > trying to clean up all the detritus but it's better if you speed things along. > > You will need to do a series of PWC's (25% partial water changes), one > a day or no more than one every couple of hours and use your gravel > vacuum and siphon deep into the gravel until the water coming up > through the tube is nearly clear, then move the siphon tube to another > spot. After 25% of the water has been removed, refill the tank with > dechlor and similar temperature water. Wait at least a couple of > hours before doing another PWC and keep doing them until you have > vacuumed your gravel really good. DO NOT mess with your filter while doing this as you will need your fully "cycled" > filter operating properly since this deep gravel vacuuming will > disrupt some of the biological filtration that occurs with the > nitrifying bacteria living on the surface of the gravel... but your > main biological filtration (the nitrogen cycle) takes place in your filter system. > > If you haven't read my article on "Filter Maintenance And Cleaning", > now would be a good time to do so. > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles > referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically > under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) > > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] > On Behalf Of rcdtrc > Sent: Tuesday, July 07, 2009 5:44 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Subject: [AquaticLife] Hi i have a question > > i have some parasites in my tank many actually and they are visible > like 1 to 2 mm wide and up to a 1cm long what should i do to get rid > of them i was thinking of changing the gravel

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 41831	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 7/8/2009
Subject: Re: Snails again

I like to upload photo's, LOL. I got the nickname years ago and I thought it was catchy, I had a magnet of a can of spam on my locker at work, so they started calling me "Spamber", instead of Amber. I didn't care either way, but thought it was catchy to use for an online name, LOL. I've been told to change it on some places because they think I'm a spammer or something... I do post a lot but sheesh, spammer? C'mon... Wait... you guys don't think I'm a spammer, right? LOL Amber Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > > > OMG... Amber started her own photo album on Flickr!!! And 136 uploads > already. Didn't you also upload a pic to your album in the group's photo > section? Yep, you did! So... why did you call yourself Spamber on Flickr? > And is your hubby Irish? > > All you need is some Gold Mystery Snails now and teach them to grow purple > and gold spiraled shells and we could sell thousands down here... called > "Fightin' Tiger Snails"... to all of our rabid LSU Tiger fans. The > baseball > team just won the national championship last month... I think for the 7th > time and the football team has been national champs a few times and SEC > champs MANY times. OK.. enough on bragging about our Fightin' Tigers!!! > GEAUX TIGERS!!!! (That's pronounced GO, not ge-a-ux. It's a Cajun/Coonass > thing! LOL > > Remember, while online photo albums are fine, ALWAYS have a backup. Over > the years, many free and paid for online photo albums have been lost when > the company went belly-up or just decided to do away with the service. > Yahoo use to have Yahoo Photos and bought out Flickr and sent folks emails > telling them to migrate their photos over to their new Flickr album > but some > folks never got the message and lost all of their photos. This also > happens > with other services. Yahoo has been doing away with LOTS of services. > GeoCities is the next BIG one to go. I had dozens of web pages on > GeoCities > from back in the 90's that will all be gone soon.. if they aren't gone > already. I have saved copies onto my computer but haven't decided if I > will > put them back up on the net again since they were from my old business. > > The good news is that many web pages that are lost from their original > hosting service can still be found on the Internet Wayback Machine which > archives copies of nearly ever web page created if it stays up on the net > for a certain period of time. They do not archive online photo albums but > they do archive the photos that are on web pages themselves. > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right > side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On > Behalf Of Amber Berglund > Sent: Wednesday, July 08, 2009 11:44 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Subject: [AquaticLife] Snails again > > Okay so I uploaded a photo of the happy little guys munching away, I will > add more later of course (I took more just have to look through and see > which ones turned out). > They are in my groups folder (Amber Berglund) Obviously the top file, when > they are approved, if you are impatient and want to see them sooner I have > flickr pics being currently uploaded ;) LOL. > http://www.flickr.com/photos/spamber/3703524712/ > <http://www.flickr.com/photos/spamber/3703524712/> > > Amber > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 41832	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 7/8/2009
Subject: Re: Snails again

Oh I forgot to read below the first paragraph btw, LOL. I'm tired. Anyways, my Hubby is Norwegian not Irish, did you guess so because of the red hair? And all of the originals of my photo's are on my computer, but I want to put them onto DVD disks to save space, that's on a todo list, y'know how those t'do lists can take awhile to get done ;) LOL. And I'm getting snails from Pam too, you'll have to see if she has any good gold ones, LOL. I was going to get purple/blue types though, the ones I have have nice blue stripes too, if you look in some of the photos, I think I uploaded one with a good shot of the blue stripes. Amber Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > > > OMG... Amber started her own photo album on Flickr!!! And 136 uploads > already. Didn't you also upload a pic to your album in the group's photo > section? Yep, you did! So... why did you call yourself Spamber on Flickr? > And is your hubby Irish? > > All you need is some Gold Mystery Snails now and teach them to grow purple > and gold spiraled shells and we could sell thousands down here... called > "Fightin' Tiger Snails"... to all of our rabid LSU Tiger fans. The > baseball > team just won the national championship last month... I think for the 7th > time and the football team has been national champs a few times and SEC > champs MANY times. OK.. enough on bragging about our Fightin' Tigers!!! > GEAUX TIGERS!!!! (That's pronounced GO, not ge-a-ux. It's a Cajun/Coonass > thing! LOL > > Remember, while online photo albums are fine, ALWAYS have a backup. Over > the years, many free and paid for online photo albums have been lost when > the company went belly-up or just decided to do away with the service. > Yahoo use to have Yahoo Photos and bought out Flickr and sent folks emails > telling them to migrate their photos over to their new Flickr album > but some > folks never got the message and lost all of their photos. This also > happens > with other services. Yahoo has been doing away with LOTS of services. > GeoCities is the next BIG one to go. I had dozens of web pages on > GeoCities > from back in the 90's that will all be gone soon.. if they aren't gone > already. I have saved copies onto my computer but haven't decided if I > will > put them back up on the net again since they were from my old business. > > The good news is that many web pages that are lost from their original > hosting service can still be found on the Internet Wayback Machine which > archives copies of nearly ever web page created if it stays up on the net > for a certain period of time. They do not archive online photo albums but > they do archive the photos that are on web pages themselves. > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right > side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On > Behalf Of Amber Berglund > Sent: Wednesday, July 08, 2009 11:44 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Subject: [AquaticLife] Snails again > > Okay so I uploaded a photo of the happy little guys munching away, I will > add more later of course (I took more just have to look through and see > which ones turned out). > They are in my groups folder (Amber Berglund) Obviously the top file, when > they are approved, if you are impatient and want to see them sooner I have > flickr pics being currently uploaded ;) LOL. > http://www.flickr.com/photos/spamber/3703524712/ > <http://www.flickr.com/photos/spamber/3703524712/> > > Amber > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 41833	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 7/8/2009
Subject: Re: Snails again

And my username is Barnsten (which is Amber in swedish in case anyone was curious, LOL), not sure where you saw Spamber at ;) Amber Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > > > OMG... Amber started her own photo album on Flickr!!! And 136 uploads > already. Didn't you also upload a pic to your album in the group's photo > section? Yep, you did! So... why did you call yourself Spamber on Flickr? > And is your hubby Irish? > > All you need is some Gold Mystery Snails now and teach them to grow purple > and gold spiraled shells and we could sell thousands down here... called > "Fightin' Tiger Snails"... to all of our rabid LSU Tiger fans. The > baseball > team just won the national championship last month... I think for the 7th > time and the football team has been national champs a few times and SEC > champs MANY times. OK.. enough on bragging about our Fightin' Tigers!!! > GEAUX TIGERS!!!! (That's pronounced GO, not ge-a-ux. It's a Cajun/Coonass > thing! LOL > > Remember, while online photo albums are fine, ALWAYS have a backup. Over > the years, many free and paid for online photo albums have been lost when > the company went belly-up or just decided to do away with the service. > Yahoo use to have Yahoo Photos and bought out Flickr and sent folks emails > telling them to migrate their photos over to their new Flickr album > but some > folks never got the message and lost all of their photos. This also > happens > with other services. Yahoo has been doing away with LOTS of services. > GeoCities is the next BIG one to go. I had dozens of web pages on > GeoCities > from back in the 90's that will all be gone soon.. if they aren't gone > already. I have saved copies onto my computer but haven't decided if I > will > put them back up on the net again since they were from my old business. > > The good news is that many web pages that are lost from their original > hosting service can still be found on the Internet Wayback Machine which > archives copies of nearly ever web page created if it stays up on the net > for a certain period of time. They do not archive online photo albums but > they do archive the photos that are on web pages themselves. > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right > side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On > Behalf Of Amber Berglund > Sent: Wednesday, July 08, 2009 11:44 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Subject: [AquaticLife] Snails again > > Okay so I uploaded a photo of the happy little guys munching away, I will > add more later of course (I took more just have to look through and see > which ones turned out). > They are in my groups folder (Amber Berglund) Obviously the top file, when > they are approved, if you are impatient and want to see them sooner I have > flickr pics being currently uploaded ;) LOL. > http://www.flickr.com/photos/spamber/3703524712/ > <http://www.flickr.com/photos/spamber/3703524712/> > > Amber > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 41834	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 7/8/2009
Subject: Re: Snails again

Look at your URL.... http://www.flickr.com/photos/spamber/3703524712/ It says "/photos/spamber/". I saw your user name was Barnsten but Spamber is showing up in the URL. And yes, the red hair made me think Irish. I thought Norwegian's were all blondes. LOL And all the girls pranced around in bikini's like the Swedish Bikini Team. ;-) http://www.moonbattery.com/swedish-bikini-team.jpg These girls have Kwicherbichen Bikini Team on their tops... sounds close to Ketchikan! LOL http://www.hotboatpics.com/pics/data/511/23team-med.jpg LMAO... I just figured out what that name actually says! I thought it was a city in Sweden... maybe it is... NOT! LOL It was just one of the pics of the Swedish Bikini Team that showed up in a Google search. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Amber Berglund Sent: Thursday, July 09, 2009 12:40 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Snails again And my username is Barnsten (which is Amber in swedish in case anyone was curious, LOL), not sure where you saw Spamber at ;) Amber Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > > > OMG... Amber started her own photo album on Flickr!!! And 136 uploads > already. Didn't you also upload a pic to your album in the group's > photo section? Yep, you did! So... why did you call yourself Spamber on Flickr? > And is your hubby Irish? > > All you need is some Gold Mystery Snails now and teach them to grow > purple and gold spiraled shells and we could sell thousands down > here... called "Fightin' Tiger Snails"... to all of our rabid LSU > Tiger fans. The baseball team just won the national championship last > month... I think for the 7th time and the football team has been > national champs a few times and SEC champs MANY times. OK.. enough on > bragging about our Fightin' Tigers!!! > GEAUX TIGERS!!!! (That's pronounced GO, not ge-a-ux. It's a > Cajun/Coonass thing! LOL > > Remember, while online photo albums are fine, ALWAYS have a backup. > Over the years, many free and paid for online photo albums have been > lost when the company went belly-up or just decided to do away with the service. > Yahoo use to have Yahoo Photos and bought out Flickr and sent folks > emails telling them to migrate their photos over to their new Flickr > album but some folks never got the message and lost all of their > photos. This also happens with other services. Yahoo has been doing > away with LOTS of services. > GeoCities is the next BIG one to go. I had dozens of web pages on > GeoCities from back in the 90's that will all be gone soon.. if they > aren't gone already. I have saved copies onto my computer but haven't > decided if I will put them back up on the net again since they were > from my old business. > > The good news is that many web pages that are lost from their original > hosting service can still be found on the Internet Wayback Machine > which archives copies of nearly ever web page created if it stays up > on the net for a certain period of time. They do not archive online > photo albums but they do archive the photos that are on web pages themselves. > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> (Links to any articles referenced in > above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels > and also under Archives by Year, Month) > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On Behalf Of Amber Berglund > Sent: Wednesday, July 08, 2009 11:44 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Subject: [AquaticLife] Snails again > > Okay so I uploaded a photo of the happy little guys munching away, I > will add more later of course (I took more just have to look through > and see which ones turned out). > They are in my groups folder (Amber Berglund) Obviously the top file, > when they are approved, if you are impatient and want to see them > sooner I have flickr pics being currently uploaded ;) LOL. > http://www.flickr.com/photos/spamber/3703524712/ > <http://www.flickr.com/photos/spamber/3703524712/> > > Amber

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 41835	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 7/8/2009
Subject: Re: Snails again

Red hair skips a generation in his family not sure where it comes from. I figured out where you got the spamber from after I asked ;) LOL. Amber Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > > > Look at your URL.... > http://www.flickr.com/photos/spamber/3703524712/ > <http://www.flickr.com/photos/spamber/3703524712/> > > It says "/photos/spamber/". I saw your user name was Barnsten but Spamber > is showing up in the URL. > > And yes, the red hair made me think Irish. > > I thought Norwegian's were all blondes. LOL And all the girls pranced > around in bikini's like the Swedish Bikini Team. ;-) > http://www.moonbattery.com/swedish-bikini-team.jpg > <http://www.moonbattery.com/swedish-bikini-team.jpg> > > These girls have Kwicherbichen Bikini Team on their tops... sounds > close to > Ketchikan! LOL > http://www.hotboatpics.com/pics/data/511/23team-med.jpg > <http://www.hotboatpics.com/pics/data/511/23team-med.jpg> > > LMAO... I just figured out what that name actually says! I thought it > was a > city in Sweden... maybe it is... NOT! LOL It was just one of the pics of > the Swedish Bikini Team that showed up in a Google search. > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right > side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On > Behalf Of Amber Berglund > Sent: Thursday, July 09, 2009 12:40 AM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Snails again > > And my username is Barnsten (which is Amber in swedish in case anyone was > curious, LOL), not sure where you saw Spamber at ;) > > Amber > > Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > > > > > > OMG... Amber started her own photo album on Flickr!!! And 136 uploads > > already. Didn't you also upload a pic to your album in the group's > > photo section? Yep, you did! So... why did you call yourself Spamber on > Flickr? > > And is your hubby Irish? > > > > All you need is some Gold Mystery Snails now and teach them to grow > > purple and gold spiraled shells and we could sell thousands down > > here... called "Fightin' Tiger Snails"... to all of our rabid LSU > > Tiger fans. The baseball team just won the national championship last > > month... I think for the 7th time and the football team has been > > national champs a few times and SEC champs MANY times. OK.. enough on > > bragging about our Fightin' Tigers!!! > > GEAUX TIGERS!!!! (That's pronounced GO, not ge-a-ux. It's a > > Cajun/Coonass thing! LOL > > > > Remember, while online photo albums are fine, ALWAYS have a backup. > > Over the years, many free and paid for online photo albums have been > > lost when the company went belly-up or just decided to do away with the > service. > > Yahoo use to have Yahoo Photos and bought out Flickr and sent folks > > emails telling them to migrate their photos over to their new Flickr > > album but some folks never got the message and lost all of their > > photos. This also happens with other services. Yahoo has been doing > > away with LOTS of services. > > GeoCities is the next BIG one to go. I had dozens of web pages on > > GeoCities from back in the 90's that will all be gone soon.. if they > > aren't gone already. I have saved copies onto my computer but haven't > > decided if I will put them back up on the net again since they were > > from my old business. > > > > The good news is that many web pages that are lost from their original > > hosting service can still be found on the Internet Wayback Machine > > which archives copies of nearly ever web page created if it stays up > > on the net for a certain period of time. They do not archive online > > photo albums but they do archive the photos that are on web pages > themselves. > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>> > (Links to any articles referenced in > > above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels > > and also under Archives by Year, Month) > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On Behalf Of Amber Berglund > > Sent: Wednesday, July 08, 2009 11:44 PM > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > Subject: [AquaticLife] Snails again > > > > Okay so I uploaded a photo of the happy little guys munching away, I > > will add more later of course (I took more just have to look through > > and see which ones turned out). > > They are in my groups folder (Amber Berglund) Obviously the top file, > > when they are approved, if you are impatient and want to see them > > sooner I have flickr pics being currently uploaded ;) LOL. > > http://www.flickr.com/photos/spamber/3703524712/ > <http://www.flickr.com/photos/spamber/3703524712/> > > <http://www.flickr.com/photos/spamber/3703524712/ > <http://www.flickr.com/photos/spamber/3703524712/>> > > > > Amber > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 41836	From: footprint145	Date: 7/9/2009
Subject: Re: Bolivian Ram - larger tank

B.Rams, for most part, fall into a group classified as Dwarf Cichlids. These are fish that usually stay below 5 inches in length. They are usually fine for a community tank, but as I am finding out, can be aggressive toward there own kind. There is a large list of Dwarf cichlids in the wild, but few make it to a pet store. Groups that specialize in Cichlid keeping usually acquire the less seen Dwarfs through breeders. You may request your local pet supplier if they can get B.Rams. Sometimes they accommodate. As far as your tank, I think a B.R. would be fine as long as water conditions are right. They are pretty fish and have wonderful characteristics. I would further investigate the species in this group and through the web to familiarize yourself with hobbyist keeping. Unfortunately,I am in Florida. Thanks anyway. Good Luck Allen --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Gail" <clandestine662002@...> wrote: > > I am just curious about Rams. I only have a clown pleco as a bottom feeder in that tank and 3 or 4 fish in it. > > I live in Salt Lake City, Ut > > thanks, > gail > > > -- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "footprint145" <footprint145@> wrote: > > > > I think a longer tank would be preferable since Rams cohabitat closer to the bottom. I could try a higher tank. What are you requesting for it and where are you located? > > > > Thanks > > Allen > > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 41837	From: Raymond Wetzel	Date: 7/9/2009
Subject: Re: Koi pond problem

Without such a necropsey such as you are now suggesting, anything else would be speculation -- but it sure sounds to me that you have introduced some sort of pathogen or parasite with this used bead filter. Of course, the introduction of this used filter may be only coincidental with your have a disease (or adverse water conditions). The water parameters you're citing though (except for the missing nitrate reading) appear to be well within limits. Any used equipment of unknown origin should always be disinfected before use as a precaution, even if it were totally disease-free as you have no way of knowing one way or the other. Since you live in NJ, why don't you take a trip to Waterford Gardens in Saddle River and speak with John Meeks, the proprietor there to see what he might suggest. You could bring along a sample of your water, just in case he might ask for it, but he wouldn't test for anything other than what you've already tested for; it's just that he may prefer to verify the results for himself. Ray --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Bob Cutrupi" <bcutrupi@...> wrote: > > Hi, I'm a new member and I have a big problem with my koi pond. I live in NJ and have had 2 Koi ponds for 10 years. Recently I have had a major problem with my big pond. Its a 5000 gallon pond. The fish in the pond are 5-8 years old. Most are 18-24 inches long and very healthy. A third of the fish are actually babies that grew up. The pond has maintained 23 large fish for many years. I have had no deaths until recently. In June 2009 I bought a used Bead Filter that was used by a pond store indoors. I always had ultraviolet lights - but I decided to add a new unit with 6 bulbs. I use a skimmer as well. I dont over feed them - once or twice a day - as much as they can eat in 2-3 minutes. > > The water never looked better. > > In the last week I have lost 10 of my 23 Koi. I started treating my pond with Melafix 2 days ago. Three fish died since the treatment started but I believe they were already weakened. > > I bought a testing kit and before I added any Melafix I got the following results: > > 1) pH - 8.0 > 2) Ammonia - 0 > 3) Nitrite - 0 > 4) Salt .50 > 5) Phosphate - . 50 > 6) KH - 135 ppm > > I added a little more salt then started treating with Melafix. Today I added a broad spectrum antibiotic that turned the water blue. > > Do you think my fish could have caught something from the used bead filter? > > My little pond is doing great and its next to the infected pond. I have made sure not to use any nets or equipment that is used in the big pond. > > I am going to have a necropsy done on the next fish that dies. > > Any advice you can give me would be highly appreciated. > > Thank you, > > Bob Cutrupi >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 41838	From: biG poppa	Date: 7/9/2009
Subject: Re: Snails again

ummm naaaaaaaaaa..lol --- On Thu, 7/9/09, Amber Berglund <arberglund@...> wrote: From: Amber Berglund <arberglund@...> Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Snails again To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Date: Thursday, July 9, 2009, 1:34 AM I like to upload photo's, LOL. I got the nickname years ago and I thought it was catchy, I had a magnet of a can of spam on my locker at work, so they started calling me "Spamber", instead of Amber. I didn't care either way, but thought it was catchy to use for an online name, LOL. I've been told to change it on some places because they think I'm a spammer or something... I do post a lot but sheesh, spammer? C'mon... Wait... you guys don't think I'm a spammer, right? LOL Amber Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > > > OMG... Amber started her own photo album on Flickr!!! And 136 uploads > already. Didn't you also upload a pic to your album in the group's photo > section? Yep, you did! So... why did you call yourself Spamber on Flickr? > And is your hubby Irish? > > All you need is some Gold Mystery Snails now and teach them to grow purple > and gold spiraled shells and we could sell thousands down here... called > "Fightin' Tiger Snails"... to all of our rabid LSU Tiger fans. The > baseball > team just won the national championship last month... I think for the 7th > time and the football team has been national champs a few times and SEC > champs MANY times. OK.. enough on bragging about our Fightin' Tigers!!! > GEAUX TIGERS!!!! (That's pronounced GO, not ge-a-ux. It's a Cajun/Coonass > thing! LOL > > Remember, while online photo albums are fine, ALWAYS have a backup. Over > the years, many free and paid for online photo albums have been lost when > the company went belly-up or just decided to do away with the service. > Yahoo use to have Yahoo Photos and bought out Flickr and sent folks emails > telling them to migrate their photos over to their new Flickr album > but some > folks never got the message and lost all of their photos. This also > happens > with other services. Yahoo has been doing away with LOTS of services. > GeoCities is the next BIG one to go. I had dozens of web pages on > GeoCities > from back in the 90's that will all be gone soon.. if they aren't gone > already. I have saved copies onto my computer but haven't decided if I > will > put them back up on the net again since they were from my old business. > > The good news is that many web pages that are lost from their original > hosting service can still be found on the Internet Wayback Machine which > archives copies of nearly ever web page created if it stays up on the net > for a certain period of time. They do not archive online photo albums but > they do archive the photos that are on web pages themselves. > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com <http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com> > (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right > side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com > <mailto:AquaticLife %40yahoogroups. com> > [mailto:AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com > <mailto:AquaticLife %40yahoogroups. com>] On > Behalf Of Amber Berglund > Sent: Wednesday, July 08, 2009 11:44 PM > To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com <mailto:AquaticLife %40yahoogroups. com> > Subject: [AquaticLife] Snails again > > Okay so I uploaded a photo of the happy little guys munching away, I will > add more later of course (I took more just have to look through and see > which ones turned out). > They are in my groups folder (Amber Berglund) Obviously the top file, when > they are approved, if you are impatient and want to see them sooner I have > flickr pics being currently uploaded ;) LOL. > http://www.flickr. com/photos/ spamber/37035247 12/ > <http://www.flickr. com/photos/ spamber/37035247 12/> > > Amber > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 41839	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 7/9/2009
Subject: How often to feed snails?

Applesnail.net is kind of vague on this question, so I thought I'd ask other mystery/apple snail owners how often they feed their snails. I've been keeping them well fed, feeding extra just in case the fish eat too much, want to make sure some is left over. It's all getting eaten within 24 hours so I guess I'm feeding enough, but do they need a lot of variety? They've been pretty active on the algae on the back of the glass on the tank, and they've been munching up the jello food I made. I was told on applesnail forums that I just need to add something like tums to the recipe next time and that'll make it good for all the inhabitants in the tank, for now they should be getting enough calcium absorbed through the shell until I make a new batch of food. Should I feed veggies in between as well? The mix I made has peas and green beans in it. Amber

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 41840	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 7/9/2009
Subject: Re: Snails again

But she might be a Spamber! ;-) Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of biG poppa Sent: Thursday, July 09, 2009 2:29 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Snails again ummm naaaaaaaaaa..lol --- On Thu, 7/9/09, Amber Berglund <arberglund@...> wrote: From: Amber Berglund <arberglund@...> Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Snails again To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Date: Thursday, July 9, 2009, 1:34 AM I like to upload photo's, LOL. I got the nickname years ago and I thought it was catchy, I had a magnet of a can of spam on my locker at work, so they started calling me "Spamber", instead of Amber. I didn't care either way, but thought it was catchy to use for an online name, LOL. I've been told to change it on some places because they think I'm a spammer or something... I do post a lot but sheesh, spammer? C'mon... Wait... you guys don't think I'm a spammer, right? LOL Amber Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > > > OMG... Amber started her own photo album on Flickr!!! And 136 uploads > already. Didn't you also upload a pic to your album in the group's > photo section? Yep, you did! So... why did you call yourself Spamber on Flickr? > And is your hubby Irish? > > All you need is some Gold Mystery Snails now and teach them to grow > purple and gold spiraled shells and we could sell thousands down > here... called "Fightin' Tiger Snails"... to all of our rabid LSU > Tiger fans. The baseball team just won the national championship last > month... I think for the 7th time and the football team has been > national champs a few times and SEC champs MANY times. OK.. enough on > bragging about our Fightin' Tigers!!! > GEAUX TIGERS!!!! (That's pronounced GO, not ge-a-ux. It's a > Cajun/Coonass thing! LOL > > Remember, while online photo albums are fine, ALWAYS have a backup. > Over the years, many free and paid for online photo albums have been > lost when the company went belly-up or just decided to do away with the service. > Yahoo use to have Yahoo Photos and bought out Flickr and sent folks > emails telling them to migrate their photos over to their new Flickr > album but some folks never got the message and lost all of their > photos. This also happens with other services. Yahoo has been doing > away with LOTS of services. > GeoCities is the next BIG one to go. I had dozens of web pages on > GeoCities from back in the 90's that will all be gone soon.. if they > aren't gone already. I have saved copies onto my computer but haven't > decided if I will put them back up on the net again since they were > from my old business. > > The good news is that many web pages that are lost from their original > hosting service can still be found on the Internet Wayback Machine > which archives copies of nearly ever web page created if it stays up > on the net for a certain period of time. They do not archive online > photo albums but they do archive the photos that are on web pages themselves. > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com <http://GoldLenny. > blogspot. com> (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are > listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under > Archives by Year, Month) > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com > <mailto:AquaticLife %40yahoogroups. com> [mailto:AquaticLife@ > yahoogroups. com <mailto:AquaticLife %40yahoogroups. com>] On Behalf > Of Amber Berglund > Sent: Wednesday, July 08, 2009 11:44 PM > To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com <mailto:AquaticLife %40yahoogroups. > com> > Subject: [AquaticLife] Snails again > > Okay so I uploaded a photo of the happy little guys munching away, I > will add more later of course (I took more just have to look through > and see which ones turned out). > They are in my groups folder (Amber Berglund) Obviously the top file, > when they are approved, if you are impatient and want to see them > sooner I have flickr pics being currently uploaded ;) LOL. > http://www.flickr. com/photos/ spamber/37035247 12/ > <http://www.flickr. com/photos/ spamber/37035247 12/> > > Amber

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 41841	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 7/9/2009
Subject: Re: How often to feed snails?

Is your cooking that bad that you have to pre-add Tums to all of your recipes? LOL On a side note, I wish I would have thought about this with my ex-wife... I might still be married. NOT!!! LOL Here are some ingredient lists for the various Tums products. Tums Regular Flavors: Assorted Fruit, Peppermint Active Ingredients: Calcium Carbonate USP (500 mg) (Antacid). http://heartburn.about.com/od/antacid1/a/tums_antacid.htm While it seems the majority of a Tums is Calcium Carbonate, there are also added flavorings, etc. Instead of a Tums, just break a small piece of plain CuttleBone and grind it up in the mix. I'm betting CuttleBone is a LOT cheaper than Tums and I think you already have it on hand. Of course, hubby may have to keep Tums on hand as well. LOL Your other option is to grind up some of the high-calcium veggies/fruits from the Food List on AppleSnail.net. They would also be getting other vitamins and nutrients as well. I use to feed my Pleco zucchini, cucumber, etc. and the Mystery Snails would always find their way to the piece and get their share of the veggies. They would also eat the left over rind from the zucchini that the pleco would not eat. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Amber Berglund Sent: Thursday, July 09, 2009 5:21 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] How often to feed snails? Applesnail.net is kind of vague on this question, so I thought I'd ask other mystery/apple snail owners how often they feed their snails. I've been keeping them well fed, feeding extra just in case the fish eat too much, want to make sure some is left over. It's all getting eaten within 24 hours so I guess I'm feeding enough, but do they need a lot of variety? They've been pretty active on the algae on the back of the glass on the tank, and they've been munching up the jello food I made. I was told on applesnail forums that I just need to add something like tums to the recipe next time and that'll make it good for all the inhabitants in the tank, for now they should be getting enough calcium absorbed through the shell until I make a new batch of food. Should I feed veggies in between as well? The mix I made has peas and green beans in it. Amber

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 41842	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 7/9/2009
Subject: Re: How often to feed snails?

Okay and is hanging out at the surface an odd thing for them to do? Mine head for the surface after a meal... maybe they prefer to poop higher up, LOL. They're active little guy's/gal's though, and the tums was a suggestion off the apple snail forums because they just drop a couple in the tank every few days for the calcium carbonate. Snails need to eat some of it, to get it in their system for their proper snail production so I'm told. Dropping in flavored tums is easiest because they are attracted to sugar/sweet things. I see your point using cuttle bone though, thanks. Amber Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > > > Is your cooking that bad that you have to pre-add Tums to all of your > recipes? LOL > > On a side note, I wish I would have thought about this with my > ex-wife... I > might still be married. NOT!!! LOL > > Here are some ingredient lists for the various Tums products. > Tums Regular > Flavors: Assorted Fruit, Peppermint > Active Ingredients: Calcium Carbonate USP (500 mg) (Antacid). > http://heartburn.about.com/od/antacid1/a/tums_antacid.htm > <http://heartburn.about.com/od/antacid1/a/tums_antacid.htm> > > While it seems the majority of a Tums is Calcium Carbonate, there are also > added flavorings, etc. Instead of a Tums, just break a small piece of > plain > CuttleBone and grind it up in the mix. I'm betting CuttleBone is a LOT > cheaper than Tums and I think you already have it on hand. Of course, > hubby > may have to keep Tums on hand as well. LOL > > Your other option is to grind up some of the high-calcium veggies/fruits > from the Food List on AppleSnail.net. They would also be getting other > vitamins and nutrients as well. > > I use to feed my Pleco zucchini, cucumber, etc. and the Mystery Snails > would > always find their way to the piece and get their share of the veggies. > They > would also eat the left over rind from the zucchini that the pleco > would not > eat. > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right > side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) > > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On > Behalf Of Amber Berglund > Sent: Thursday, July 09, 2009 5:21 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Subject: [AquaticLife] How often to feed snails? > > Applesnail.net is kind of vague on this question, so I thought I'd ask > other > mystery/apple snail owners how often they feed their snails. > I've been keeping them well fed, feeding extra just in case the fish > eat too > much, want to make sure some is left over. It's all getting eaten > within 24 > hours so I guess I'm feeding enough, but do they need a lot of variety? > They've been pretty active on the algae on the back of the glass on the > tank, and they've been munching up the jello food I made. I was told on > applesnail forums that I just need to add something like tums to the > recipe > next time and that'll make it good for all the inhabitants in the > tank, for > now they should be getting enough calcium absorbed through the shell > until I > make a new batch of food. > Should I feed veggies in between as well? The mix I made has peas and > green > beans in it. > > Amber > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 41843	From: biG poppa	Date: 7/9/2009
Subject: Re: How often to feed snails?

My have a bad habit of hanging around the power head intake and filter and rocks and stuff   spamber --- On Thu, 7/9/09, Amber Berglund <arberglund@...> wrote: From: Amber Berglund <arberglund@...> Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] How often to feed snails? To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Date: Thursday, July 9, 2009, 6:36 PM Okay and is hanging out at the surface an odd thing for them to do? Mine head for the surface after a meal... maybe they prefer to poop higher up, LOL. They're active little guy's/gal's though, and the tums was a suggestion off the apple snail forums because they just drop a couple in the tank every few days for the calcium carbonate. Snails need to eat some of it, to get it in their system for their proper snail production so I'm told. Dropping in flavored tums is easiest because they are attracted to sugar/sweet things. I see your point using cuttle bone though, thanks. Amber Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > > > Is your cooking that bad that you have to pre-add Tums to all of your > recipes? LOL > > On a side note, I wish I would have thought about this with my > ex-wife... I > might still be married. NOT!!! LOL > > Here are some ingredient lists for the various Tums products. > Tums Regular > Flavors: Assorted Fruit, Peppermint > Active Ingredients: Calcium Carbonate USP (500 mg) (Antacid). > http://heartburn. about.com/ od/antacid1/ a/tums_antacid. htm > <http://heartburn. about.com/ od/antacid1/ a/tums_antacid. htm> > > While it seems the majority of a Tums is Calcium Carbonate, there are also > added flavorings, etc. Instead of a Tums, just break a small piece of > plain > CuttleBone and grind it up in the mix. I'm betting CuttleBone is a LOT > cheaper than Tums and I think you already have it on hand. Of course, > hubby > may have to keep Tums on hand as well. LOL > > Your other option is to grind up some of the high-calcium veggies/fruits > from the Food List on AppleSnail.net. They would also be getting other > vitamins and nutrients as well. > > I use to feed my Pleco zucchini, cucumber, etc. and the Mystery Snails > would > always find their way to the piece and get their share of the veggies. > They > would also eat the left over rind from the zucchini that the pleco > would not > eat. > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com <http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com> > (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right > side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) > > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com > <mailto:AquaticLife %40yahoogroups. com> > [mailto:AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com > <mailto:AquaticLife %40yahoogroups. com>] On > Behalf Of Amber Berglund > Sent: Thursday, July 09, 2009 5:21 PM > To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com <mailto:AquaticLife %40yahoogroups. com> > Subject: [AquaticLife] How often to feed snails? > > Applesnail.net is kind of vague on this question, so I thought I'd ask > other > mystery/apple snail owners how often they feed their snails. > I've been keeping them well fed, feeding extra just in case the fish > eat too > much, want to make sure some is left over. It's all getting eaten > within 24 > hours so I guess I'm feeding enough, but do they need a lot of variety? > They've been pretty active on the algae on the back of the glass on the > tank, and they've been munching up the jello food I made. I was told on > applesnail forums that I just need to add something like tums to the > recipe > next time and that'll make it good for all the inhabitants in the > tank, for > now they should be getting enough calcium absorbed through the shell > until I > make a new batch of food. > Should I feed veggies in between as well? The mix I made has peas and > green > beans in it. > > Amber > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 41844	From: Gwydryn@aol.com	Date: 7/9/2009
Subject: Re: How often to feed snails?

In a message dated 7/9/2009 5:24:42 P.M. Central Daylight Time, arberglund@... writes: Should I feed veggies in between as well? The mix I made has peas and green beans in it. Amber Mine like golden raisins and omega one fish pellets, plus, of course, zucchini, yellow squash, green peas, cucumbers, tomatoes and any other veggie that happens to be on the pleco's menu. I do not feed every day, but every other day, so far so good. (people THINK I eat healthy...it's all for the kids!) Enid "Life is not about waiting for the storms to pass...it's about learning how to dance in the rain." **************Dell Studio XPS Desktop: Save up to $400 - Limited Time Offer (http://pr.atwola.com/promoclk/100126575x1222466512x1201463496/aol?redir=htt p:%2F%2Faltfarm.mediaplex.com%2Fad%2Fck%2F12309%2D81939%2D1629%2D3) [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 41845	From: Gail	Date: 7/9/2009
Subject: Re: Bolivian Ram - larger tank

Yeah, I looked into them a bit further. I don't think they will like the hard water here in SLC. Maybe if I get a softener that would help. I will hold off for now. But I may look into it again at another time. I like the fact that they hang out amongst the substrate. It reminds me of my Geophagus Surinamus - he has a ton of personality. thanks again! gail --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "footprint145" <footprint145@...> wrote: > > B.Rams, for most part, fall into a group classified as Dwarf Cichlids. These are fish that usually stay below 5 inches in length. They are usually fine for a community tank, but as I am finding out, can be aggressive toward there own kind. There is a large list of Dwarf cichlids in the wild, but few make it to a pet store. Groups that specialize in Cichlid keeping usually acquire the less seen Dwarfs through breeders. You may request your local pet supplier if they can get B.Rams. Sometimes they accommodate. > > As far as your tank, I think a B.R. would be fine as long as water conditions are right. They are pretty fish and have wonderful characteristics. I would further investigate the species in this group and through the web to familiarize yourself with hobbyist keeping. > > Unfortunately,I am in Florida. Thanks anyway. > > Good Luck > Allen > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Gail" <clandestine662002@> wrote: > > > > I am just curious about Rams. I only have a clown pleco as a bottom feeder in that tank and 3 or 4 fish in it. > > > > I live in Salt Lake City, Ut > > > > thanks, > > gail > > > > > > -- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "footprint145" <footprint145@> wrote: > > > > > > I think a longer tank would be preferable since Rams cohabitat closer to the bottom. I could try a higher tank. What are you requesting for it and where are you located? > > > > > > Thanks > > > Allen > > > > > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 41846	From: babyhellcat69	Date: 7/9/2009
Subject: Snails with bad shells??

my freshwater snails shells are looking bad, chipped. Im thinking they need some calicum or something. If so what exactly will help them and where can I buy it online? Thanks.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 41847	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 7/9/2009
Subject: Re: Snails with bad shells??

Cuttle bones in your filter, or if you want to get the calcium directly into them (eating it) drop a couple tablets of some fruity flavor of tums (they are attracted to the fruit flavoring, and it's mostly calcium as Lenny pointed out in another post). You can also used crushed coral in your filter to raise the KH and GH (which is what calcium does, and crushed coral is a form that has calcium in it). Your best bet would be to drop some tums or caltrate into the tank for them to get calcium. Amber babyhellcat69 wrote: > > > my freshwater snails shells are looking bad, chipped. Im thinking they > need some calicum or something. If so what exactly will help them and > where can I buy it online? Thanks. > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 41848	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 7/9/2009
Subject: Re: How often to feed snails?

Oh I know, the veggies all go to the animals I think I can't remember the last time I ate veggies, my doctor might go into shock if I told him, LOL. Amber Gwydryn@... wrote: > > > > > In a message dated 7/9/2009 5:24:42 P.M. Central Daylight Time, > arberglund@... <mailto:arberglund%40gmail.com> writes: > > Should I feed veggies in between as well? The mix I made has peas and > green beans in it. > > Amber > > Mine like golden raisins and omega one fish pellets, plus, of course, > zucchini, yellow squash, green peas, cucumbers, tomatoes and any other > veggie > that happens to be on the pleco's menu. I do not feed every day, but > every > other day, so far so good. (people THINK I eat healthy...it's all for the > kids!) > Enid > > "Life is not about waiting for the storms to pass...it's about learning > how to dance in the rain." > **************Dell Studio XPS Desktop: Save up to $400 - Limited Time > Offer > (http://pr.atwola.com/promoclk/100126575x1222466512x1201463496/aol?redir=htt > <http://pr.atwola.com/promoclk/100126575x1222466512x1201463496/aol?redir=htt> > p:%2F%2Faltfarm.mediaplex.com%2Fad%2Fck%2F12309%2D81939%2D1629%2D3) > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 41849	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 7/9/2009
Subject: Re: How often to feed snails?

Hey that's my nickname, no signing with my nickname aloud ;) LOL. Amber biG poppa wrote: > > > My have a bad habit of hanging around the power head intake and filter > and rocks and stuff > > spamber > > --- On Thu, 7/9/09, Amber Berglund <arberglund@... > <mailto:arberglund%40gmail.com>> wrote: > > From: Amber Berglund <arberglund@... > <mailto:arberglund%40gmail.com>> > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] How often to feed snails? > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Date: Thursday, July 9, 2009, 6:36 PM > > Okay and is hanging out at the surface an odd thing for them to do? Mine > head for the surface after a meal... maybe they prefer to poop higher > up, LOL. > > They're active little guy's/gal's though, and the tums was a suggestion > off the apple snail forums because they just drop a couple in the tank > every few days for the calcium carbonate. Snails need to eat some of it, > to get it in their system for their proper snail production so I'm told. > Dropping in flavored tums is easiest because they are attracted to > sugar/sweet things. I see your point using cuttle bone though, thanks. > > Amber > > Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > > > > > > Is your cooking that bad that you have to pre-add Tums to all of your > > recipes? LOL > > > > On a side note, I wish I would have thought about this with my > > ex-wife... I > > might still be married. NOT!!! LOL > > > > Here are some ingredient lists for the various Tums products. > > Tums Regular > > Flavors: Assorted Fruit, Peppermint > > Active Ingredients: Calcium Carbonate USP (500 mg) (Antacid). > > http://heartburn. about.com/ od/antacid1/ a/tums_antacid. htm > > <http://heartburn. about.com/ od/antacid1/ a/tums_antacid. htm> > > > > While it seems the majority of a Tums is Calcium Carbonate, there > are also > > added flavorings, etc. Instead of a Tums, just break a small piece of > > plain > > CuttleBone and grind it up in the mix. I'm betting CuttleBone is a LOT > > cheaper than Tums and I think you already have it on hand. Of course, > > hubby > > may have to keep Tums on hand as well. LOL > > > > Your other option is to grind up some of the high-calcium veggies/fruits > > from the Food List on AppleSnail.net. They would also be getting other > > vitamins and nutrients as well. > > > > I use to feed my Pleco zucchini, cucumber, etc. and the Mystery Snails > > would > > always find their way to the piece and get their share of the veggies. > > They > > would also eat the left over rind from the zucchini that the pleco > > would not > > eat. > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com <http://GoldLenny. > blogspot. com> > > (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right > > side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, > Month) > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com > > <mailto:AquaticLife %40yahoogroups. com> > > [mailto:AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com > > <mailto:AquaticLife %40yahoogroups. com>] On > > Behalf Of Amber Berglund > > Sent: Thursday, July 09, 2009 5:21 PM > > To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com <mailto:AquaticLife > %40yahoogroups. com> > > Subject: [AquaticLife] How often to feed snails? > > > > Applesnail.net is kind of vague on this question, so I thought I'd ask > > other > > mystery/apple snail owners how often they feed their snails. > > I've been keeping them well fed, feeding extra just in case the fish > > eat too > > much, want to make sure some is left over. It's all getting eaten > > within 24 > > hours so I guess I'm feeding enough, but do they need a lot of variety? > > They've been pretty active on the algae on the back of the glass on the > > tank, and they've been munching up the jello food I made. I was told on > > applesnail forums that I just need to add something like tums to the > > recipe > > next time and that'll make it good for all the inhabitants in the > > tank, for > > now they should be getting enough calcium absorbed through the shell > > until I > > make a new batch of food. > > Should I feed veggies in between as well? The mix I made has peas and > > green > > beans in it. > > > > Amber > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 41850	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 7/9/2009
Subject: Re: Snails with bad shells??

Check out the thread that Amber has for her Mystery Snails. We're talking about this exact topic. A low cost way of adding calcium carbonate to your tank is to use Cuttlebone. Amber is going to grind up either some Cuttlebone or Tums into her DIY food. If you have soft water or low pH water, you can also add pieces of Cuttlebone to your filter reservoir so it will slowly dissolve. If you give us your tap water baseline test results and your tank test results, we might be able to give you more info on some small and natural things you can do but most of the time, even with soft and acidic water, if you supplement their diet with calcium rich foods, they'll get enough that way to build strong healthy shells. Here's a thread about calcium rich foods for feeding Apple and Mystery snails. http://www.applesnail.net/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=3988 Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of babyhellcat69 Sent: Thursday, July 09, 2009 1:42 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Snails with bad shells?? my freshwater snails shells are looking bad, chipped. Im thinking they need some calicum or something. If so what exactly will help them and where can I buy it online? Thanks.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 41851	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 7/9/2009
Subject: Re: Snails with bad shells??

Just to clarify what Amber is saying, Cuttlebone, Crushed Coral and Tums all have Calcium Carbonate, not just calcium. While calcium will make the water harder (GH level), the Carbonate part will also help to raise the KH level. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Amber Berglund Sent: Thursday, July 09, 2009 9:01 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Snails with bad shells?? Cuttle bones in your filter, or if you want to get the calcium directly into them (eating it) drop a couple tablets of some fruity flavor of tums (they are attracted to the fruit flavoring, and it's mostly calcium as Lenny pointed out in another post). You can also used crushed coral in your filter to raise the KH and GH (which is what calcium does, and crushed coral is a form that has calcium in it). Your best bet would be to drop some tums or caltrate into the tank for them to get calcium. Amber babyhellcat69 wrote: > > > my freshwater snails shells are looking bad, chipped. Im thinking they > need some calicum or something. If so what exactly will help them and > where can I buy it online? Thanks. > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 41852	From: babyhellcat69	Date: 7/9/2009
Subject: Re: Snails with bad shells??

Perfect. I NEVER thought about using tums. ~gives both amber and lenny a big hug~ :-) --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, Amber Berglund <arberglund@...> wrote: > > Cuttle bones in your filter, or if you want to get the calcium directly > into them (eating it) drop a couple tablets of some fruity flavor of > tums (they are attracted to the fruit flavoring, and it's mostly calcium > as Lenny pointed out in another post). > You can also used crushed coral in your filter to raise the KH and GH > (which is what calcium does, and crushed coral is a form that has > calcium in it). > Your best bet would be to drop some tums or caltrate into the tank for > them to get calcium. > > Amber > > babyhellcat69 wrote: > > > > > > my freshwater snails shells are looking bad, chipped. Im thinking they > > need some calicum or something. If so what exactly will help them and > > where can I buy it online? Thanks. > > > > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 41853	From: sgriscom_2	Date: 7/9/2009
Subject: Canister filter

Help! I just bought an aquarium from someone and it came with a cascade 1000 canister filter. It wasn't assembled but I figured I would find directions online but have come up with nothing so far. I'm sure someone out there has one so please help me out. I've found instructions on how to use the media and get it started but nothing on how to assemble it.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 41854	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 7/9/2009
Subject: Re: Snails with bad shells??

Thanks Lenny, I'm tired and I wasn't able to be specific enough, took too much energy to think of the big words, LOL. Amber Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > > > Just to clarify what Amber is saying, Cuttlebone, Crushed Coral and > Tums all > have Calcium Carbonate, not just calcium. While calcium will make the > water > harder (GH level), the Carbonate part will also help to raise the KH > level. > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right > side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) > > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On > Behalf Of Amber Berglund > Sent: Thursday, July 09, 2009 9:01 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Snails with bad shells?? > > Cuttle bones in your filter, or if you want to get the calcium > directly into > them (eating it) drop a couple tablets of some fruity flavor of tums (they > are attracted to the fruit flavoring, and it's mostly calcium as Lenny > pointed out in another post). > You can also used crushed coral in your filter to raise the KH and GH > (which > is what calcium does, and crushed coral is a form that has calcium in it). > Your best bet would be to drop some tums or caltrate into the tank for > them > to get calcium. > > Amber > > babyhellcat69 wrote: > > > > > > my freshwater snails shells are looking bad, chipped. Im thinking they > > need some calicum or something. If so what exactly will help them and > > where can I buy it online? Thanks. > > > > > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 41855	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 7/9/2009
Subject: Re: Canister filter

This page on the PennPlax.com website has instructions on how to get an instruction manual. http://www.pennplax.com/Consumer.html http://63.116.56.166/login .Use this link to access our collection of instruction sheets. .Just click on the icon to the left and when you see Penn-Plax FTP site, type in the word "instructions" into the user field, and press the "login" button. .You can then find the instruction sheet you need under either Aquarium, Dog, Cat or Bird. You can view the instruction sheet by clicking on it, or you can download the instruction sheet PDF by clicking on the arrow to the right of the link. .When you are finished, please click logout. You can try clicking this link but you may need to go through the above process. http://63.116.56.166/Instruction_Sheets/Aquarium/Filters/Cascade700-1000_Can ister%28IS%29.pdf I went ahead and saved a copy so I will also be replying to you off-list and attaching a copy of the PDF instructions document. Check your spam folder if the off-list copy of this reply doesn't make it to your inbox. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of sgriscom_2 Sent: Thursday, July 09, 2009 9:48 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Canister filter Help! I just bought an aquarium from someone and it came with a cascade 1000 canister filter. It wasn't assembled but I figured I would find directions online but have come up with nothing so far. I'm sure someone out there has one so please help me out. I've found instructions on how to use the media and get it started but nothing on how to assemble it. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 41856	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 7/10/2009
Subject: Lenny, suggestion for bunch plants?

I know that you threw out a suggestion at some point on how to plant bunch plants so they won't just refloat after you let go ;) I don't want to plant them all in one bunch, I've been trying to plant individual stems but they keep resurfacing ;) LOL. They are a higher nutrient needing plant seems like they'd like the dirt better than the surface ;) Amber

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 41857	From: sgriscom_2	Date: 7/10/2009
Subject: 80 Gallon Tank

New problem. The tank I bought is a 80 gallon hexagon tank. It doen't have any stickers or marking but that is what the guy told me. Since it is large enough for my needs I'm not to concerned that this exactly correct. My problem is it came with a home-made frame for the top and a small light strip but no canopy. I was told it was previously used as a reef tank so one was not used. I have searched the net and the largest canopy I have foun is for 50 something gallon. Is 80 gallons an unusual size and how do I measure it. Also will I have to get a canopy specialy made?

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 41858	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 7/10/2009
Subject: Re: 80 Gallon Tank

Why not just use plexiglass? that's the cheap way out, just get some thick enough so you can set your light strips on top of it, and you'll just have to drill a hole in it for easy removal. This is what Lenny does, right Len? LOL Amber sgriscom_2 wrote: > > > New problem. The tank I bought is a 80 gallon hexagon tank. It doen't > have any stickers or marking but that is what the guy told me. Since > it is large enough for my needs I'm not to concerned that this exactly > correct. My problem is it came with a home-made frame for the top and > a small light strip but no canopy. I was told it was previously used > as a reef tank so one was not used. I have searched the net and the > largest canopy I have foun is for 50 something gallon. Is 80 gallons > an unusual size and how do I measure it. Also will I have to get a > canopy specialy made? > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 41859	From: bill 1433	Date: 7/10/2009
Subject: Re: 80 Gallon Tank

You need to get the EXACT inside, around the in-board edge, measurements of the tank.   Once you have that information go here: http://www.glasscages.com/?sAction=ViewCat&lCatID=40   These folks are good people and can build you just about anything you need and you don't have to mortgage your house either!   Bill --- On Fri, 7/10/09, sgriscom_2 <sgriscom_2@...> wrote: From: sgriscom_2 <sgriscom_2@...> Subject: [AquaticLife] 80 Gallon Tank To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Date: Friday, July 10, 2009, 10:50 AM New problem. The tank I bought is a 80 gallon hexagon tank. It doen't have any stickers or marking but that is what the guy told me. Since it is large enough for my needs I'm not to concerned that this exactly correct. My problem is it came with a home-made frame for the top and a small light strip but no canopy. I was told it was previously used as a reef tank so one was not used. I have searched the net and the largest canopy I have foun is for 50 something gallon. Is 80 gallons an unusual size and how do I measure it.. Also will I have to get a canopy specialy made? ------------------------------------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the home page.  Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com to receive the digest, which includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com for the No E-Mail option where you will still be able to read messages on the group and post replies. Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com to receive individual e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 41860	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 7/10/2009
Subject: Re: 80 Gallon Tank

Measure the six sides to make sure they are all even. If they are, give us one sides measurements and how tall it is. Also, measure front to back and side to side. Often, it will be a little longer side to side, than front to back. You can also use the calculator on this site although I haven't checked the Hex Calculator for accuracy but I'm presuming it has been checked by others. http://animal-world.com/encyclo/information/calculate.htm I did a couple of test measurements and for an 80G Hex Tank, it would have to be around 32" tall and each of the six sides would have to be around 15". This page http://www.alysta.com/books/fishtank.htm near the bottom, has four common Hex tank sizes... with the largest being 60G. GlassCages.com has five Hex tanks with the largest being 108G. http://www.glasscages.com/?sAction=ViewCat&lCatID=65 Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of sgriscom_2 Sent: Friday, July 10, 2009 9:50 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] 80 Gallon Tank New problem. The tank I bought is a 80 gallon hexagon tank. It doen't have any stickers or marking but that is what the guy told me. Since it is large enough for my needs I'm not to concerned that this exactly correct. My problem is it came with a home-made frame for the top and a small light strip but no canopy. I was told it was previously used as a reef tank so one was not used. I have searched the net and the largest canopy I have foun is for 50 something gallon. Is 80 gallons an unusual size and how do I measure it. Also will I have to get a canopy specialy made?

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 41861	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 7/10/2009
Subject: Re: 80 Gallon Tank

Yep. And make it two or three pieces with hinges so the front can lift up and the back can lift up (and be custom cut for filters, hoses, etc.) and the middle section stays in place holding the lights. Remember, that a TALL tank, even though it may have a lot of water volume, still has limited bottom area and surface area so they CAN NOT be stocked based on their volume, but rather based on bottom and surface area. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Amber Berglund Sent: Friday, July 10, 2009 10:16 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] 80 Gallon Tank Why not just use plexiglass? that's the cheap way out, just get some thick enough so you can set your light strips on top of it, and you'll just have to drill a hole in it for easy removal. This is what Lenny does, right Len? LOL Amber sgriscom_2 wrote: > > > New problem. The tank I bought is a 80 gallon hexagon tank. It doen't > have any stickers or marking but that is what the guy told me. Since > it is large enough for my needs I'm not to concerned that this exactly > correct. My problem is it came with a home-made frame for the top and > a small light strip but no canopy. I was told it was previously used > as a reef tank so one was not used. I have searched the net and the > largest canopy I have foun is for 50 something gallon. Is 80 gallons > an unusual size and how do I measure it. Also will I have to get a > canopy specialy made? > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 41862	From: bill 1433	Date: 7/10/2009
Subject: Re: 80 Gallon Tank

Better glass!  This stuff may not take the heat of the lights unless its pretty thick like above a 1/4", and that stuff will cost plenty.   Bill --- On Fri, 7/10/09, Amber Berglund <arberglund@...> wrote: From: Amber Berglund <arberglund@...> Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] 80 Gallon Tank To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Date: Friday, July 10, 2009, 11:15 AM Why not just use plexiglass? that's the cheap way out, just get some thick enough so you can set your light strips on top of it, and you'll just have to drill a hole in it for easy removal. This is what Lenny does, right Len? LOL Amber sgriscom_2 wrote: > > > New problem. The tank I bought is a 80 gallon hexagon tank. It doen't > have any stickers or marking but that is what the guy told me. Since > it is large enough for my needs I'm not to concerned that this exactly > correct. My problem is it came with a home-made frame for the top and > a small light strip but no canopy. I was told it was previously used > as a reef tank so one was not used. I have searched the net and the > largest canopy I have foun is for 50 something gallon. Is 80 gallons > an unusual size and how do I measure it. Also will I have to get a > canopy specialy made? > > ------------------------------------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the home page.  Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com to receive the digest, which includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com for the No E-Mail option where you will still be able to read messages on the group and post replies. Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com to receive individual e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 41863	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 7/10/2009
Subject: Re: Lenny, suggestion for bunch plants?

What are you trying to plant? Something like Anacharis? Are you using pots are your Walstad substrate? I'm going to be leaving my home office in a minute or two so I may not reply for a while. I'm already running late so I can't hang around. Hopefully others will reply. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Amber Berglund Sent: Friday, July 10, 2009 10:07 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Lenny, suggestion for bunch plants? I know that you threw out a suggestion at some point on how to plant bunch plants so they won't just refloat after you let go ;) I don't want to plant them all in one bunch, I've been trying to plant individual stems but they keep resurfacing ;) LOL. They are a higher nutrient needing plant seems like they'd like the dirt better than the surface ;) Amber ------------------------------------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the home page. Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com to receive the digest, which includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com for the No E-Mail option where you will still be able to read messages on the group and post replies. Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com to receive individual e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 41864	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 7/10/2009
Subject: Re: 80 Gallon Tank

Bill, If you see the link I provided for Hex Tanks at GlassCages.com, they specifically mention that they DO NOT build stands or hoods for their tanks so I doubt they'd do it for others. ;-) Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of bill 1433 Sent: Friday, July 10, 2009 10:27 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] 80 Gallon Tank You need to get the EXACT inside, around the in-board edge, measurements of the tank.   Once you have that information go here: http://www.glasscages.com/?sAction=ViewCat&lCatID=40   These folks are good people and can build you just about anything you need and you don't have to mortgage your house either!   Bill --- On Fri, 7/10/09, sgriscom_2 <sgriscom_2@...> wrote: From: sgriscom_2 <sgriscom_2@...> Subject: [AquaticLife] 80 Gallon Tank To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Date: Friday, July 10, 2009, 10:50 AM New problem. The tank I bought is a 80 gallon hexagon tank. It doen't have any stickers or marking but that is what the guy told me. Since it is large enough for my needs I'm not to concerned that this exactly correct. My problem is it came with a home-made frame for the top and a small light strip but no canopy. I was told it was previously used as a reef tank so one was not used. I have searched the net and the largest canopy I have foun is for 50 something gallon. Is 80 gallons an unusual size and how do I measure it.. Also will I have to get a canopy specialy made?

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 41865	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 7/10/2009
Subject: Re: 80 Gallon Tank

Depends on the lights. If Fluorescent or CFL's, the heat isn't a problem. I use plexiglass on my tanks where I did things DIY. Of course, it is 1/4" plexiglass since anything less starts to bow too much on bigger tanks. A little bowing is actually good as it allows any condensation to just run down to the lower bowed in section and drip back into the tank so you might only end up with algae and/or hard water build up in that one section rather than all over the glass. ;-) Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of bill 1433 Sent: Friday, July 10, 2009 10:29 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] 80 Gallon Tank Better glass!  This stuff may not take the heat of the lights unless its pretty thick like above a 1/4", and that stuff will cost plenty.   Bill --- On Fri, 7/10/09, Amber Berglund <arberglund@...> wrote: From: Amber Berglund <arberglund@...> Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] 80 Gallon Tank To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Date: Friday, July 10, 2009, 11:15 AM Why not just use plexiglass? that's the cheap way out, just get some thick enough so you can set your light strips on top of it, and you'll just have to drill a hole in it for easy removal. This is what Lenny does, right Len? LOL Amber sgriscom_2 wrote: > > > New problem. The tank I bought is a 80 gallon hexagon tank. It doen't > have any stickers or marking but that is what the guy told me. Since > it is large enough for my needs I'm not to concerned that this exactly > correct. My problem is it came with a home-made frame for the top and > a small light strip but no canopy. I was told it was previously used > as a reef tank so one was not used. I have searched the net and the > largest canopy I have foun is for 50 something gallon. Is 80 gallons > an unusual size and how do I measure it. Also will I have to get a > canopy specialy made? > > ------------------------------------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the home page.  Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com to receive the digest, which includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com for the No E-Mail option where you will still be able to read messages on the group and post replies. Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com to receive individual e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] ------------------------------------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the home page. Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com to receive the digest, which includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com for the No E-Mail option where you will still be able to read messages on the group and post replies. Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com to receive individual e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 41866	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 7/10/2009
Subject: Re: Lenny, suggestion for bunch plants?

They are like bacopa with less leaves, I'd have to find the long drawn out scientific name, but it's red and I see no roots sticking out of anywhere but the bottom of the stem. okay here we go, it's Alternanthera reinckii var. roseafolia. Ain't that the mouthfull? ;) LOL It wants to float not sink, so when I try to plant it into the walstad substrate (btw all my tanks besides the 10 gallons are now set up as walstad tanks), it eventually floats away. I figured plant anchors would work but I'd have to buy tons of them for each individual stem. Amber Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > > > What are you trying to plant? Something like Anacharis? Are you using pots > are your Walstad substrate? > > I'm going to be leaving my home office in a minute or two so I may not > reply > for a while. I'm already running late so I can't hang around. Hopefully > others will reply. > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right > side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On > Behalf Of Amber Berglund > Sent: Friday, July 10, 2009 10:07 AM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Subject: [AquaticLife] Lenny, suggestion for bunch plants? > > I know that you threw out a suggestion at some point on how to plant bunch > plants so they won't just refloat after you let go ;) I don't want to > plant > them all in one bunch, I've been trying to plant individual stems but they > keep resurfacing ;) LOL. > They are a higher nutrient needing plant seems like they'd like the dirt > better than the surface ;) > > Amber > > ------------------------------------ > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. > ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> > PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to > the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the > SUBJECT > LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- > <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. > > If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of unsubscribing, you > can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the > home page. > > Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:aquaticlife-digest%40yahoogroups.com> to receive the digest, which > includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email > > Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:aquaticlife-nomail%40yahoogroups.com> for the No E-Mail option > where > you will still be able to read messages on the group and post replies. > > Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:aquaticlife-normal%40yahoogroups.com> to receive individual > e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 41867	From: bill 1433	Date: 7/10/2009
Subject: Re: 80 Gallon Tank---CHECK THAT!

Check That!   If you go here:  http://www.glasscages.com/?sAction=ViewCat&lCatID=40   now scroll left you will see that they not only build stuff but will also build what you want.   They do have their OWN stands, canopies, plus they will do covers either for acrylic or glass tanks.  But they are not mind readers, you have to ask and they are very prompt in their returns but a phone call is quicker.   Bill --- On Fri, 7/10/09, Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@...> wrote: From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@...> Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] 80 Gallon Tank To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Date: Friday, July 10, 2009, 11:37 AM Bill, If you see the link I provided for Hex Tanks at GlassCages.com, they specifically mention that they DO NOT build stands or hoods for their tanks so I doubt they'd do it for others. ;-) Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of bill 1433 Sent: Friday, July 10, 2009 10:27 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] 80 Gallon Tank You need to get the EXACT inside, around the in-board edge, measurements of the tank.   Once you have that information go here: http://www.glasscages.com/?sAction=ViewCat&lCatID=40   These folks are good people and can build you just about anything you need and you don't have to mortgage your house either!   Bill --- On Fri, 7/10/09, sgriscom_2 <sgriscom_2@...> wrote: From: sgriscom_2 <sgriscom_2@...> Subject: [AquaticLife] 80 Gallon Tank To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Date: Friday, July 10, 2009, 10:50 AM New problem. The tank I bought is a 80 gallon hexagon tank. It doen't have any stickers or marking but that is what the guy told me. Since it is large enough for my needs I'm not to concerned that this exactly correct. My problem is it came with a home-made frame for the top and a small light strip but no canopy. I was told it was previously used as a reef tank so one was not used. I have searched the net and the largest canopy I have foun is for 50 something gallon. Is 80 gallons an unusual size and how do I measure it.. Also will I have to get a canopy specialy made? ------------------------------------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the home page.  Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com to receive the digest, which includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com for the No E-Mail option where you will still be able to read messages on the group and post replies. Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com to receive individual e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 41868	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 7/10/2009
Subject: Re: 80 Gallon Tank

Or if you don't have any escape fish you could leave it open like I do on a couple of my tanks, so far I haven't lost any (I thought I had but was mistaken). I like the open look especially if you have any live plants that will bloom out of the water. Amber Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > > > Depends on the lights. If Fluorescent or CFL's, the heat isn't a problem. > I use plexiglass on my tanks where I did things DIY. Of course, it is 1/4" > plexiglass since anything less starts to bow too much on bigger tanks. A > little bowing is actually good as it allows any condensation to just run > down to the lower bowed in section and drip back into the tank so you > might > only end up with algae and/or hard water build up in that one section > rather > than all over the glass. ;-) > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right > side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On > Behalf Of bill 1433 > Sent: Friday, July 10, 2009 10:29 AM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] 80 Gallon Tank > > Better glass! This stuff may not take the heat of the lights unless its > pretty thick like above a 1/4", and that stuff will cost plenty. > > Bill > > --- On Fri, 7/10/09, Amber Berglund <arberglund@... > <mailto:arberglund%40gmail.com>> wrote: > > From: Amber Berglund <arberglund@... > <mailto:arberglund%40gmail.com>> > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] 80 Gallon Tank > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Date: Friday, July 10, 2009, 11:15 AM > > Why not just use plexiglass? that's the cheap way out, just get some thick > enough so you can set your light strips on top of it, and you'll just have > to drill a hole in it for easy removal. > This is what Lenny does, right Len? LOL > > Amber > > sgriscom_2 wrote: > > > > > > New problem. The tank I bought is a 80 gallon hexagon tank. It doen't > > have any stickers or marking but that is what the guy told me. Since > > it is large enough for my needs I'm not to concerned that this exactly > > correct. My problem is it came with a home-made frame for the top and > > a small light strip but no canopy. I was told it was previously used > > as a reef tank so one was not used. I have searched the net and the > > largest canopy I have foun is for 50 something gallon. Is 80 gallons > > an unusual size and how do I measure it. Also will I have to get a > > canopy specialy made? > > > > > > ------------------------------------ > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. > ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> > PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to > the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the > SUBJECT > LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- > <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. > > If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of unsubscribing, you > can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the > home page. > > Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:aquaticlife-digest%40yahoogroups.com> to receive the digest, which > includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email > > Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:aquaticlife-nomail%40yahoogroups.com> for the No E-Mail option > where > you will still be able to read messages on the group and post replies. > > Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:aquaticlife-normal%40yahoogroups.com> to receive individual > e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > ------------------------------------ > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. > ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> > PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to > the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the > SUBJECT > LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- > <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. > > If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of unsubscribing, you > can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the > home page. > > Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:aquaticlife-digest%40yahoogroups.com> to receive the digest, which > includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email > > Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:aquaticlife-nomail%40yahoogroups.com> for the No E-Mail option > where > you will still be able to read messages on the group and post replies. > > Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:aquaticlife-normal%40yahoogroups.com> to receive individual > e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 41869	From: anallafamily.2001	Date: 7/10/2009
Subject: Volitan Lionfish

I have had a huma trigger and a violet Tang in my tank for about 3mo. sand they were doing great. So I added a volitan lionfish, within a week both were dead. the lionfish never chaced or bothered either fish so I am woundering why this is. And they all were suppose to be campatable.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 41870	From: Byron	Date: 7/10/2009
Subject: Re: Bolivian Ram - larger tank

Although it is found in the Rio Guapore and Rio Mamore basins (soft, acidic water) it has also been observed in a lake in the area that had a pH of 7.6 with a carbonate hardness of 4 dH. Linke & Staeck reported successful spawning in tap water with a pH of 7.5 and a hardness of 14 dH and carbonate hardness of 13 dH. If your water parameters are within or less than these, it is still a dwarf cichlid to consider. Of course, one does not always know the source of the particular fish. And most of the other SA dwarf cichlids require fairly soft and acidic water and do not always adjust to different parameters. Byron. --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Gail" <clandestine662002@...> wrote: > > Yeah, I looked into them a bit further. I don't think they will like the hard water here in SLC. Maybe if I get a softener that would help. I will hold off for now. But I may look into it again at another time. I like the fact that they hang out amongst the substrate. It reminds me of my Geophagus Surinamus - he has a ton of personality. > > thanks again! > gail > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "footprint145" <footprint145@> wrote: > > > > B.Rams, for most part, fall into a group classified as Dwarf Cichlids. These are fish that usually stay below 5 inches in length. They are usually fine for a community tank, but as I am finding out, can be aggressive toward there own kind. There is a large list of Dwarf cichlids in the wild, but few make it to a pet store. Groups that specialize in Cichlid keeping usually acquire the less seen Dwarfs through breeders. You may request your local pet supplier if they can get B.Rams. Sometimes they accommodate. > > > > As far as your tank, I think a B.R. would be fine as long as water conditions are right. They are pretty fish and have wonderful characteristics. I would further investigate the species in this group and through the web to familiarize yourself with hobbyist keeping. > > > > Unfortunately,I am in Florida. Thanks anyway. > > > > Good Luck > > Allen > > > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Gail" <clandestine662002@> wrote: > > > > > > I am just curious about Rams. I only have a clown pleco as a bottom feeder in that tank and 3 or 4 fish in it. > > > > > > I live in Salt Lake City, Ut > > > > > > thanks, > > > gail > > > > > > > > > -- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "footprint145" <footprint145@> wrote: > > > > > > > > I think a longer tank would be preferable since Rams cohabitat closer to the bottom. I could try a higher tank. What are you requesting for it and where are you located? > > > > > > > > Thanks > > > > Allen > > > > > > > > > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 41871	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 7/10/2009
Subject: Re: Lenny, suggestion for bunch plants?

You may need to add one of the weighted plant strips above the crown so that the weight is above the substrate line and can be removed after a few weeks... hoping by then, the roots have started to spread out and grab hold. You should NOT leave these plant weights on forever as they could cause harm to the plant as it spreads grows. Your LFS should have LOTS of these plant strips laying around as they come in on most plants shipped to stores... at least my LFS and my PetsMart both say they come in with the plants. They give me handfuls at a time when I ask. I'm guessing you know what I'm talking about. These strips are made of an amalgam material that looks like lead (but it's not lead) and it's a soft pliable metal strip about 1/4" wide and 2.5" long so they can be loosely wrapped around a plants base, above the crown and they are heavy enough to hold most plants in place. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Amber Berglund Sent: Friday, July 10, 2009 11:08 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Lenny, suggestion for bunch plants? They are like bacopa with less leaves, I'd have to find the long drawn out scientific name, but it's red and I see no roots sticking out of anywhere but the bottom of the stem. okay here we go, it's Alternanthera reinckii var. roseafolia. Ain't that the mouthfull? ;) LOL It wants to float not sink, so when I try to plant it into the walstad substrate (btw all my tanks besides the 10 gallons are now set up as walstad tanks), it eventually floats away. I figured plant anchors would work but I'd have to buy tons of them for each individual stem. Amber Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > > > What are you trying to plant? Something like Anacharis? Are you using > pots are your Walstad substrate? > > I'm going to be leaving my home office in a minute or two so I may not > reply for a while. I'm already running late so I can't hang around. > Hopefully others will reply. > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> (Links to any articles referenced in > above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels > and also under Archives by Year, Month) > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On Behalf Of Amber Berglund > Sent: Friday, July 10, 2009 10:07 AM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Subject: [AquaticLife] Lenny, suggestion for bunch plants? > > I know that you threw out a suggestion at some point on how to plant > bunch plants so they won't just refloat after you let go ;) I don't > want to plant them all in one bunch, I've been trying to plant > individual stems but they keep resurfacing ;) LOL. > They are a higher nutrient needing plant seems like they'd like the > dirt better than the surface ;) > > Amber > > ------------------------------------ > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. > ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , > .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT > that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the > original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: > old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , > .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. > > If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of unsubscribing, > you can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My > Membership" on the home page. > > Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:aquaticlife-digest%40yahoogroups.com> to receive the digest, > which includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email > > Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:aquaticlife-nomail%40yahoogroups.com> for the No E-Mail option > where you will still be able to read messages on the group and post > replies. > > Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:aquaticlife-normal%40yahoogroups.com> to receive individual > e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links > > ------------------------------------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the home page. Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com to receive the digest, which includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com for the No E-Mail option where you will still be able to read messages on the group and post replies. Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com to receive individual e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 41872	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 7/10/2009
Subject: Re: 80 Gallon Tank---CHECK THAT!

That's a link to Aquarium Sealants. ;-) Here is the language from their Hexagonal Tank page. http://www.glasscages.com/?sAction=ViewCat&lCatID=65 Stands and Canopies Stands and canopies are not available at this time for hex aquariums. Their Canopies page shows NO Hex Canopies. http://www.glasscages.com/?sAction=ViewCat&lCatID=8 -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of bill 1433 Sent: Friday, July 10, 2009 11:09 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] 80 Gallon Tank---CHECK THAT! Check That!   If you go here:  http://www.glasscages.com/?sAction=ViewCat&lCatID=40   now scroll left you will see that they not only build stuff but will also build what you want.   They do have their OWN stands, canopies, plus they will do covers either for acrylic or glass tanks.  But they are not mind readers, you have to ask and they are very prompt in their returns but a phone call is quicker.   Bill --- On Fri, 7/10/09, Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@...> wrote: From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@...> Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] 80 Gallon Tank To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Date: Friday, July 10, 2009, 11:37 AM Bill, If you see the link I provided for Hex Tanks at GlassCages.com, they specifically mention that they DO NOT build stands or hoods for their Hex tanks so I doubt they'd do it for others. ;-) Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of bill 1433 Sent: Friday, July 10, 2009 10:27 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] 80 Gallon Tank You need to get the EXACT inside, around the in-board edge, measurements of the tank.   Once you have that information go here: http://www.glasscages.com/?sAction=ViewCat&lCatID=40   These folks are good people and can build you just about anything you need and you don't have to mortgage your house either!   Bill --- On Fri, 7/10/09, sgriscom_2 <sgriscom_2@...> wrote: From: sgriscom_2 <sgriscom_2@...> Subject: [AquaticLife] 80 Gallon Tank To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Date: Friday, July 10, 2009, 10:50 AM New problem. The tank I bought is a 80 gallon hexagon tank. It doen't have any stickers or marking but that is what the guy told me. Since it is large enough for my needs I'm not to concerned that this exactly correct. My problem is it came with a home-made frame for the top and a small light strip but no canopy. I was told it was previously used as a reef tank so one was not used. I have searched the net and the largest canopy I have foun is for 50 something gallon. Is 80 gallons an unusual size and how do I measure it.. Also will I have to get a canopy specialy made?

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 41873	From: greychildren	Date: 7/10/2009
Subject: Question for Lenny

Hey Lenny i have so much aquarium equipment that i whant to get rid off i tried to trade it for some fish and rocks no luck. do you think the LFS will give me credit for the stuff?

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 41874	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 7/10/2009
Subject: Re: Lenny, suggestion for bunch plants?

My LFS will give me some when they have extras, they tend to sell their bunched plants with the weights attached for some reason, but she's nice about saving me some and I get a few every now and then, but right now I'm out of weights and the lead weights in my hubby's tackle box are lookin' mighty handy lately ;) LOL. I upped the lighting in the 55 upstairs today, I swapped out the actinic bulbs for 2 more 6700 kelvin sunpaq bulbs (daylight). The tank doesn't seem that much brighter with 2 more going for some reason... My albino cory's were not impressed, I think I need to move them until the plants grow some more, or perhaps they will settle down cuz it was just a shock to their little red eyes ;) LOL. Anyone have some sunglasses that'll fit little cory catfish? ;) I will try to make it out to the LFS and see if she has any plant weights left over, but it doesn't look like it'll happen today, maybe tomorrow. Amber Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > > > You may need to add one of the weighted plant strips above the crown > so that > the weight is above the substrate line and can be removed after a few > weeks... hoping by then, the roots have started to spread out and grab > hold. > You should NOT leave these plant weights on forever as they could > cause harm > to the plant as it spreads grows. Your LFS should have LOTS of these plant > strips laying around as they come in on most plants shipped to > stores... at > least my LFS and my PetsMart both say they come in with the plants. They > give me handfuls at a time when I ask. I'm guessing you know what I'm > talking about. These strips are made of an amalgam material that looks > like > lead (but it's not lead) and it's a soft pliable metal strip about > 1/4" wide > and 2.5" long so they can be loosely wrapped around a plants base, > above the > crown and they are heavy enough to hold most plants in place. > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right > side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On > Behalf Of Amber Berglund > Sent: Friday, July 10, 2009 11:08 AM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Lenny, suggestion for bunch plants? > > They are like bacopa with less leaves, I'd have to find the long drawn out > scientific name, but it's red and I see no roots sticking out of anywhere > but the bottom of the stem. > okay here we go, it's Alternanthera reinckii var. roseafolia. > Ain't that the mouthfull? ;) LOL > It wants to float not sink, so when I try to plant it into the walstad > substrate (btw all my tanks besides the 10 gallons are now set up as > walstad > tanks), it eventually floats away. > I figured plant anchors would work but I'd have to buy tons of them > for each > individual stem. > > Amber > > Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > > > > > > What are you trying to plant? Something like Anacharis? Are you using > > pots are your Walstad substrate? > > > > I'm going to be leaving my home office in a minute or two so I may not > > reply for a while. I'm already running late so I can't hang around. > > Hopefully others will reply. > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>> > (Links to any articles referenced in > > above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels > > and also under Archives by Year, Month) > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On Behalf Of Amber Berglund > > Sent: Friday, July 10, 2009 10:07 AM > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > Subject: [AquaticLife] Lenny, suggestion for bunch plants? > > > > I know that you threw out a suggestion at some point on how to plant > > bunch plants so they won't just refloat after you let go ;) I don't > > want to plant them all in one bunch, I've been trying to plant > > individual stems but they keep resurfacing ;) LOL. > > They are a higher nutrient needing plant seems like they'd like the > > dirt better than the surface ;) > > > > Amber > > > > ------------------------------------ > > > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, > Thank You. > > ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , > > .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT > > that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the > > original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: > > old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , > > .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. > > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. > > > > If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of unsubscribing, > > you can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My > > Membership" on the home page. > > > > Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:aquaticlife-digest%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:aquaticlife-digest%40yahoogroups.com> to receive the digest, > > which includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email > > > > Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:aquaticlife-nomail%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:aquaticlife-nomail%40yahoogroups.com> for the No E-Mail option > > where you will still be able to read messages on the group and post > > replies. > > > > Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:aquaticlife-normal%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:aquaticlife-normal%40yahoogroups.com> to receive individual > > e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > ------------------------------------ > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. > ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> > PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to > the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the > SUBJECT > LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- > <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. > > If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of unsubscribing, you > can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the > home page. > > Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:aquaticlife-digest%40yahoogroups.com> to receive the digest, which > includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email > > Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:aquaticlife-nomail%40yahoogroups.com> for the No E-Mail option > where > you will still be able to read messages on the group and post replies. > > Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:aquaticlife-normal%40yahoogroups.com> to receive individual > e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 41875	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 7/10/2009
Subject: Re: Question for Lenny

I'm not Lenny but I can answer from my LFS's point of view. They will readily take in anything you don't want, but if you want money for it don't expect very much from them as they plan to make a huge profit off of it if they can... So good luck trying, but it's always worth asking. Try putting an ad in one of your local paper/free paper's that just says, OBO and see what people offer for it? Amber greychildren wrote: > > > Hey Lenny i have so much aquarium equipment that i whant to get rid > off i tried to trade it for some fish and rocks no luck. do you think > the LFS will give me credit for the stuff? > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 41876	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 7/10/2009
Subject: Re: Lenny, suggestion for bunch plants?

If I pile rocks around 'em it will rot the stem correct? Which will not work in favor... Most of the ones I've burried in the gravel/substrate have stayed put, perhaps I should stick to the lowest water flow spots and only put it there (the 2 sides of the tank). I want to plant some val's along the back wall, I love the look of them. And yes, I have stopped using excel since I switched this tank to a NPT (walstad natural planted tank). I've also become a pretty active member on the el natural forums so I can ask questions directly if I need to ;) LOL. Amber Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > > > You may need to add one of the weighted plant strips above the crown > so that > the weight is above the substrate line and can be removed after a few > weeks... hoping by then, the roots have started to spread out and grab > hold. > You should NOT leave these plant weights on forever as they could > cause harm > to the plant as it spreads grows. Your LFS should have LOTS of these plant > strips laying around as they come in on most plants shipped to > stores... at > least my LFS and my PetsMart both say they come in with the plants. They > give me handfuls at a time when I ask. I'm guessing you know what I'm > talking about. These strips are made of an amalgam material that looks > like > lead (but it's not lead) and it's a soft pliable metal strip about > 1/4" wide > and 2.5" long so they can be loosely wrapped around a plants base, > above the > crown and they are heavy enough to hold most plants in place. > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right > side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On > Behalf Of Amber Berglund > Sent: Friday, July 10, 2009 11:08 AM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Lenny, suggestion for bunch plants? > > They are like bacopa with less leaves, I'd have to find the long drawn out > scientific name, but it's red and I see no roots sticking out of anywhere > but the bottom of the stem. > okay here we go, it's Alternanthera reinckii var. roseafolia. > Ain't that the mouthfull? ;) LOL > It wants to float not sink, so when I try to plant it into the walstad > substrate (btw all my tanks besides the 10 gallons are now set up as > walstad > tanks), it eventually floats away. > I figured plant anchors would work but I'd have to buy tons of them > for each > individual stem. > > Amber > > Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > > > > > > What are you trying to plant? Something like Anacharis? Are you using > > pots are your Walstad substrate? > > > > I'm going to be leaving my home office in a minute or two so I may not > > reply for a while. I'm already running late so I can't hang around. > > Hopefully others will reply. > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>> > (Links to any articles referenced in > > above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels > > and also under Archives by Year, Month) > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On Behalf Of Amber Berglund > > Sent: Friday, July 10, 2009 10:07 AM > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > Subject: [AquaticLife] Lenny, suggestion for bunch plants? > > > > I know that you threw out a suggestion at some point on how to plant > > bunch plants so they won't just refloat after you let go ;) I don't > > want to plant them all in one bunch, I've been trying to plant > > individual stems but they keep resurfacing ;) LOL. > > They are a higher nutrient needing plant seems like they'd like the > > dirt better than the surface ;) > > > > Amber > > > > ------------------------------------ > > > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, > Thank You. > > ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , > > .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT > > that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the > > original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: > > old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , > > .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. > > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. > > > > If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of unsubscribing, > > you can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My > > Membership" on the home page. > > > > Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:aquaticlife-digest%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:aquaticlife-digest%40yahoogroups.com> to receive the digest, > > which includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email > > > > Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:aquaticlife-nomail%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:aquaticlife-nomail%40yahoogroups.com> for the No E-Mail option > > where you will still be able to read messages on the group and post > > replies. > > > > Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:aquaticlife-normal%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:aquaticlife-normal%40yahoogroups.com> to receive individual > > e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > ------------------------------------ > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. > ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> > PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to > the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the > SUBJECT > LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- > <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. > > If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of unsubscribing, you > can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the > home page. > > Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:aquaticlife-digest%40yahoogroups.com> to receive the digest, which > includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email > > Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:aquaticlife-nomail%40yahoogroups.com> for the No E-Mail option > where > you will still be able to read messages on the group and post replies. > > Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:aquaticlife-normal%40yahoogroups.com> to receive individual > e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 41877	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 7/10/2009
Subject: Poor snail :(

Well my smallest new snail didn't make it. Not sure what happened but I found the shell floating (empty) today. It was also lighter in color, do they lose their color when they die? I know my pH is stable and there's enough GH and KH for them, perhaps I need to feed them more calcium directly, I plan on getting some tums today and trying that. Amber

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 41878	From: biG poppa	Date: 7/10/2009
Subject: Re: Question for Lenny

I know i wount get rich out of the LFS..spamber..lol.. i took two damsels one time onr got 2 dollars for it. and there like 20 each...i tried the aquaticequipment group no luck there put on craiglist no luck there ether..lol --- On Fri, 7/10/09, Amber Berglund <arberglund@...> wrote: From: Amber Berglund <arberglund@...> Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Question for Lenny To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Date: Friday, July 10, 2009, 5:27 PM I'm not Lenny but I can answer from my LFS's point of view. They will readily take in anything you don't want, but if you want money for it don't expect very much from them as they plan to make a huge profit off of it if they can... So good luck trying, but it's always worth asking. Try putting an ad in one of your local paper/free paper's that just says, OBO and see what people offer for it? Amber greychildren wrote: > > > Hey Lenny i have so much aquarium equipment that i whant to get rid > off i tried to trade it for some fish and rocks no luck. do you think > the LFS will give me credit for the stuff? > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 41879	From: Gwydryn@aol.com	Date: 7/10/2009
Subject: Re: Poor snail :(

In a message dated 7/10/2009 4:39:55 P.M. Central Daylight Time, arberglund@... writes: Well my smallest new snail didn't make it. Not sure what happened but I found the shell floating (empty) today. It was also lighter in color, do they lose their color when they die? somebody ate him!? You have any more cannibals hiding in your tanks? escargot diner for one! Enid O yes, the shell looks lighter because the snail wasn't in there "Life is not about waiting for the storms to pass...it's about learning how to dance in the rain." **************A Good Credit Score is 700 or Above. See yours in just 2 easy steps! (http://pr.atwola.com/promoclk/100126575x1221323031x1201367232/aol?redir=http://www.freecreditreport.com/pm/default.aspx?sc=668072&hmpgID=62&bcd= JulystepsfooterNO62) [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 41880	From: biG poppa	Date: 7/10/2009
Subject: Re: Poor snail :(

yea amber the shells turns white wend they die..i keep pulling them off the power head intake. dont for get to rmove the dead ones from the tank so it wount affect your pH..i heard all or must inverts need hard Gh water for there shells. it like me i keep on loosing ghost shrimp in 40g planted tank out of 20 only have 3 left. --- On Fri, 7/10/09, Amber Berglund <arberglund@...> wrote: From: Amber Berglund <arberglund@...> Subject: [AquaticLife] Poor snail :( To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Date: Friday, July 10, 2009, 5:38 PM Well my smallest new snail didn't make it. Not sure what happened but I found the shell floating (empty) today. It was also lighter in color, do they lose their color when they die? I know my pH is stable and there's enough GH and KH for them, perhaps I need to feed them more calcium directly, I plan on getting some tums today and trying that. Amber [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 41881	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 7/10/2009
Subject: Re: Poor snail :(

I have raised my GH and KH, maybe I haven't raise it high enough? I will test it tonight as lunch is almost over. The bigger ones all seem just fine, very active and hungry, and poopy ;) LOL. The small one I found floating was still in it's shell but it had lost it's trap door and sucked itself inside and it looks like there was a crack around the bottom of the shell where it would have closed shut. It's my community tank so it's all peaceful fish so nothing should have bothered it, perhaps it had a rough trip up here. Amber biG poppa wrote: > > > yea amber the shells turns white wend they die..i keep pulling them > off the power head intake. dont for get to rmove the dead ones from > the tank so it wount affect your pH..i heard all or must inverts need > hard Gh water for there shells. it like me i keep on loosing ghost > shrimp in 40g planted tank out of 20 only have 3 left. > > --- On Fri, 7/10/09, Amber Berglund <arberglund@... > <mailto:arberglund%40gmail.com>> wrote: > > From: Amber Berglund <arberglund@... > <mailto:arberglund%40gmail.com>> > Subject: [AquaticLife] Poor snail :( > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Date: Friday, July 10, 2009, 5:38 PM > > Well my smallest new snail didn't make it. > Not sure what happened but I found the shell floating (empty) today. > It was also lighter in color, do they lose their color when they die? > I know my pH is stable and there's enough GH and KH for them, perhaps I > need to feed them more calcium directly, I plan on getting some tums > today and trying that. > > Amber > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 41882	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 7/10/2009
Subject: Re: Poor snail :(

Oh and Yes I pulled the floating snail/shell out of the tank, I knew that leaving it in there was bad, just like rotting plants. Amber biG poppa wrote: > > > yea amber the shells turns white wend they die..i keep pulling them > off the power head intake. dont for get to rmove the dead ones from > the tank so it wount affect your pH..i heard all or must inverts need > hard Gh water for there shells. it like me i keep on loosing ghost > shrimp in 40g planted tank out of 20 only have 3 left. > > --- On Fri, 7/10/09, Amber Berglund <arberglund@... > <mailto:arberglund%40gmail.com>> wrote: > > From: Amber Berglund <arberglund@... > <mailto:arberglund%40gmail.com>> > Subject: [AquaticLife] Poor snail :( > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Date: Friday, July 10, 2009, 5:38 PM > > Well my smallest new snail didn't make it. > Not sure what happened but I found the shell floating (empty) today. > It was also lighter in color, do they lose their color when they die? > I know my pH is stable and there's enough GH and KH for them, perhaps I > need to feed them more calcium directly, I plan on getting some tums > today and trying that. > > Amber > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 41883	From: Gail	Date: 7/10/2009
Subject: Re: Snails with bad shells??

Any suggestions on finding cuddlebone? Do I just go to a LFS? Or do I need to get cuddlebone from the parakeet isle? or would that be considered "media" (along with the filters and such)? thanks, gail --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@...> wrote: > > Just to clarify what Amber is saying, Cuttlebone, Crushed Coral and Tums all > have Calcium Carbonate, not just calcium. While calcium will make the water > harder (GH level), the Carbonate part will also help to raise the KH level. > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right > side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) > > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On > Behalf Of Amber Berglund > Sent: Thursday, July 09, 2009 9:01 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Snails with bad shells?? > > Cuttle bones in your filter, or if you want to get the calcium directly into > them (eating it) drop a couple tablets of some fruity flavor of tums (they > are attracted to the fruit flavoring, and it's mostly calcium as Lenny > pointed out in another post). > You can also used crushed coral in your filter to raise the KH and GH (which > is what calcium does, and crushed coral is a form that has calcium in it). > Your best bet would be to drop some tums or caltrate into the tank for them > to get calcium. > > Amber > > babyhellcat69 wrote: > > > > > > my freshwater snails shells are looking bad, chipped. Im thinking they > > need some calicum or something. If so what exactly will help them and > > where can I buy it online? Thanks. > > > > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 41884	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 7/10/2009
Subject: Re: Snails with bad shells??

walmart should have it in their bird section. or a pet store would have it in their bird section. Amber Gail wrote: > > > Any suggestions on finding cuddlebone? Do I just go to a LFS? Or do I > need to get cuddlebone from the parakeet isle? or would that be > considered "media" (along with the filters and such)? > > thanks, > gail > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>, "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" > <GoldLenny@...> wrote: > > > > Just to clarify what Amber is saying, Cuttlebone, Crushed Coral and > Tums all > > have Calcium Carbonate, not just calcium. While calcium will make > the water > > harder (GH level), the Carbonate part will also help to raise the KH > level. > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right > > side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, > Month) > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On > > Behalf Of Amber Berglund > > Sent: Thursday, July 09, 2009 9:01 PM > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Snails with bad shells?? > > > > Cuttle bones in your filter, or if you want to get the calcium > directly into > > them (eating it) drop a couple tablets of some fruity flavor of tums > (they > > are attracted to the fruit flavoring, and it's mostly calcium as Lenny > > pointed out in another post). > > You can also used crushed coral in your filter to raise the KH and > GH (which > > is what calcium does, and crushed coral is a form that has calcium > in it). > > Your best bet would be to drop some tums or caltrate into the tank > for them > > to get calcium. > > > > Amber > > > > babyhellcat69 wrote: > > > > > > > > > my freshwater snails shells are looking bad, chipped. Im thinking > they > > > need some calicum or something. If so what exactly will help them and > > > where can I buy it online? Thanks. > > > > > > > > > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 41885	From: biG poppa	Date: 7/10/2009
Subject: Re: Poor snail :(

lol..not as bad as my pleco poopy it streaches the whole tank sometimes..lol --- On Fri, 7/10/09, Amber Berglund <arberglund@...> wrote: From: Amber Berglund <arberglund@...> Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Poor snail :( To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Date: Friday, July 10, 2009, 5:46 PM I have raised my GH and KH, maybe I haven't raise it high enough? I will test it tonight as lunch is almost over. The bigger ones all seem just fine, very active and hungry, and poopy ;) LOL. The small one I found floating was still in it's shell but it had lost it's trap door and sucked itself inside and it looks like there was a crack around the bottom of the shell where it would have closed shut. It's my community tank so it's all peaceful fish so nothing should have bothered it, perhaps it had a rough trip up here. Amber biG poppa wrote: > > > yea amber the shells turns white wend they die..i keep pulling them > off the power head intake. dont for get to rmove the dead ones from > the tank so it wount affect your pH..i heard all or must inverts need > hard Gh water for there shells. it like me i keep on loosing ghost > shrimp in 40g planted tank out of 20 only have 3 left. > > --- On Fri, 7/10/09, Amber Berglund <arberglund@gmail. com > <mailto:arberglund% 40gmail.com> > wrote: > > From: Amber Berglund <arberglund@gmail. com > <mailto:arberglund% 40gmail.com> > > Subject: [AquaticLife] Poor snail :( > To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com <mailto:AquaticLife %40yahoogroups. com> > Date: Friday, July 10, 2009, 5:38 PM > > Well my smallest new snail didn't make it. > Not sure what happened but I found the shell floating (empty) today. > It was also lighter in color, do they lose their color when they die? > I know my pH is stable and there's enough GH and KH for them, perhaps I > need to feed them more calcium directly, I plan on getting some tums > today and trying that. > > Amber > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 41886	From: biG poppa	Date: 7/10/2009
Subject: Re: Lenny, suggestion for bunch plants?

Amber my 40g tank is el natural two the only thing i add is florish and florish tabs every 6 to 7 months i just dont whant ot deal with the co2 and pH issued. i have plenty of erigation in my tank I just dont fill it up all the day and i have a power head running my amazon swords are doing ok besides the bites from the clown loaches, also my wistilia and java fern along with xmas moss and drift wood are doing ok. exept the xmas moss that makes a mess of things with the filter and power head. --- On Fri, 7/10/09, Amber Berglund <arberglund@...> wrote: From: Amber Berglund <arberglund@...> Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Lenny, suggestion for bunch plants? To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Date: Friday, July 10, 2009, 5:31 PM If I pile rocks around 'em it will rot the stem correct? Which will not work in favor... Most of the ones I've burried in the gravel/substrate have stayed put, perhaps I should stick to the lowest water flow spots and only put it there (the 2 sides of the tank). I want to plant some val's along the back wall, I love the look of them. And yes, I have stopped using excel since I switched this tank to a NPT (walstad natural planted tank). I've also become a pretty active member on the el natural forums so I can ask questions directly if I need to ;) LOL. Amber Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > > > You may need to add one of the weighted plant strips above the crown > so that > the weight is above the substrate line and can be removed after a few > weeks... hoping by then, the roots have started to spread out and grab > hold. > You should NOT leave these plant weights on forever as they could > cause harm > to the plant as it spreads grows. Your LFS should have LOTS of these plant > strips laying around as they come in on most plants shipped to > stores... at > least my LFS and my PetsMart both say they come in with the plants. They > give me handfuls at a time when I ask. I'm guessing you know what I'm > talking about. These strips are made of an amalgam material that looks > like > lead (but it's not lead) and it's a soft pliable metal strip about > 1/4" wide > and 2.5" long so they can be loosely wrapped around a plants base, > above the > crown and they are heavy enough to hold most plants in place. > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com <http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com> > (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right > side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com > <mailto:AquaticLife %40yahoogroups. com> > [mailto:AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com > <mailto:AquaticLife %40yahoogroups. com>] On > Behalf Of Amber Berglund > Sent: Friday, July 10, 2009 11:08 AM > To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com <mailto:AquaticLife %40yahoogroups. com> > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Lenny, suggestion for bunch plants? > > They are like bacopa with less leaves, I'd have to find the long drawn out > scientific name, but it's red and I see no roots sticking out of anywhere > but the bottom of the stem. > okay here we go, it's Alternanthera reinckii var. roseafolia. > Ain't that the mouthfull? ;) LOL > It wants to float not sink, so when I try to plant it into the walstad > substrate (btw all my tanks besides the 10 gallons are now set up as > walstad > tanks), it eventually floats away. > I figured plant anchors would work but I'd have to buy tons of them > for each > individual stem. > > Amber > > Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > > > > > > What are you trying to plant? Something like Anacharis? Are you using > > pots are your Walstad substrate? > > > > I'm going to be leaving my home office in a minute or two so I may not > > reply for a while. I'm already running late so I can't hang around. > > Hopefully others will reply. > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com > <http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com> > > <http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com <http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com>> > (Links to any articles referenced in > > above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels > > and also under Archives by Year, Month) > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com <mailto:AquaticLife %40yahoogroups. com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife %40yahoogroups. com> > > [mailto:AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com > <mailto:AquaticLife %40yahoogroups. com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife %40yahoogroups. com>] On Behalf Of Amber Berglund > > Sent: Friday, July 10, 2009 10:07 AM > > To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com > <mailto:AquaticLife %40yahoogroups. com> > <mailto:AquaticLife %40yahoogroups. com> > > Subject: [AquaticLife] Lenny, suggestion for bunch plants? > > > > I know that you threw out a suggestion at some point on how to plant > > bunch plants so they won't just refloat after you let go ;) I don't > > want to plant them all in one bunch, I've been trying to plant > > individual stems but they keep resurfacing ;) LOL. > > They are a higher nutrient needing plant seems like they'd like the > > dirt better than the surface ;) > > > > Amber > > > > ------------ --------- --------- ------ > > > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, > Thank You. > > ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , > > .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT > > that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the > > original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: > > old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , > > .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. > > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. > > > > If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of unsubscribing, > > you can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My > > Membership" on the home page. > > > > Or e-mail aquaticlife- digest@yahoogrou ps.com > <mailto:aquaticlife -digest%40yahoog roups.com> > > <mailto:aquaticlife -digest%40yahoog roups.com> to receive the digest, > > which includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email > > > > Or email aquaticlife- nomail@yahoogrou ps.com > <mailto:aquaticlife -nomail%40yahoog roups.com> > > <mailto:aquaticlife -nomail%40yahoog roups.com> for the No E-Mail option > > where you will still be able to read messages on the group and post > > replies. > > > > Or email aquaticlife- normal@yahoogrou ps.com > <mailto:aquaticlife -normal%40yahoog roups.com> > > <mailto:aquaticlife -normal%40yahoog roups.com> to receive individual > > e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > ------------ --------- --------- ------ > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. > ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> > PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to > the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the > SUBJECT > LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- > <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. > > If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of unsubscribing, you > can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the > home page. > > Or e-mail aquaticlife- digest@yahoogrou ps.com > <mailto:aquaticlife -digest%40yahoog roups.com> to receive the digest, which > includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email > > Or email aquaticlife- nomail@yahoogrou ps.com > <mailto:aquaticlife -nomail%40yahoog roups.com> for the No E-Mail option > where > you will still be able to read messages on the group and post replies. > > Or email aquaticlife- normal@yahoogrou ps.com > <mailto:aquaticlife -normal%40yahoog roups.com> to receive individual > e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 41887	From: pam andress	Date: 7/10/2009
Subject: Re: Question for Lenny

If there are any fish shows near you, you can also take it in to one of those if they are doing dry goods at their auction. Pam To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com From: arberglund@... Date: Fri, 10 Jul 2009 13:27:57 -0800 Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Question for Lenny I'm not Lenny but I can answer from my LFS's point of view. They will readily take in anything you don't want, but if you want money for it don't expect very much from them as they plan to make a huge profit off of it if they can... So good luck trying, but it's always worth asking. Try putting an ad in one of your local paper/free paper's that just says, OBO and see what people offer for it? Amber greychildren wrote: > > > Hey Lenny i have so much aquarium equipment that i whant to get rid > off i tried to trade it for some fish and rocks no luck. do you think > the LFS will give me credit for the stuff? > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 41888	From: biG poppa	Date: 7/10/2009
Subject: Re: Question for Lenny

Thanks for the idea Pam i did not think of that --- On Fri, 7/10/09, pam andress <pamandress23@...> wrote: From: pam andress <pamandress23@...> Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Question for Lenny To: aquaticlife@yahoogroups.com Date: Friday, July 10, 2009, 6:40 PM If there are any fish shows near you, you can also take it in to one of those if they are doing dry goods at their auction. Pam To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com From: arberglund@gmail. com Date: Fri, 10 Jul 2009 13:27:57 -0800 Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Question for Lenny I'm not Lenny but I can answer from my LFS's point of view. They will readily take in anything you don't want, but if you want money for it don't expect very much from them as they plan to make a huge profit off of it if they can... So good luck trying, but it's always worth asking. Try putting an ad in one of your local paper/free paper's that just says, OBO and see what people offer for it? Amber greychildren wrote: > > > Hey Lenny i have so much aquarium equipment that i whant to get rid > off i tried to trade it for some fish and rocks no luck. do you think > the LFS will give me credit for the stuff? > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 41889	From: bill 1433	Date: 7/10/2009
Subject: Re: Snails with bad shells??

Hi Gail,   I like Wal-Mart---price?  Here in PA, a buck and sometime .89 on sale!   Bill --- On Fri, 7/10/09, Gail <clandestine662002@...> wrote: From: Gail <clandestine662002@...> Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Snails with bad shells?? To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Date: Friday, July 10, 2009, 5:34 PM Any suggestions on finding cuddlebone? Do I just go to a LFS? Or do I need to get cuddlebone from the parakeet isle? or would that be considered "media" (along with the filters and such)? thanks, gail --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@...> wrote: > > Just to clarify what Amber is saying, Cuttlebone, Crushed Coral and Tums all > have Calcium Carbonate, not just calcium.  While calcium will make the water > harder (GH level), the Carbonate part will also help to raise the KH level. > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right > side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) >  > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On > Behalf Of Amber Berglund > Sent: Thursday, July 09, 2009 9:01 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Snails with bad shells?? > > Cuttle bones in your filter, or if you want to get the calcium directly into > them (eating it) drop a couple tablets of some fruity flavor of tums (they > are attracted to the fruit flavoring, and it's mostly calcium as Lenny > pointed out in another post). > You can also used crushed coral in your filter to raise the KH and GH (which > is what calcium does, and crushed coral is a form that has calcium in it).. > Your best bet would be to drop some tums or caltrate into the tank for them > to get calcium. > > Amber > > babyhellcat69 wrote: > > > > > > my freshwater snails shells are looking bad, chipped. Im thinking they > > need some calicum or something. If so what exactly will help them and > > where can I buy it online? Thanks. > > > > > ------------------------------------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the home page.  Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com to receive the digest, which includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com for the No E-Mail option where you will still be able to read messages on the group and post replies. Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com to receive individual e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 41890	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 7/10/2009
Subject: Re: Question for Lenny

Nothing wrong with trying. If they have separate filters on their tanks, they may be willing to give you credit for used stuff... and anything else they may need/use. I've never tried it with mine but that would be a store by store decision anyhow, for LFS. Have you tried listing it on your local Craigslist? Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of greychildren Sent: Friday, July 10, 2009 4:13 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Question for Lenny Hey Lenny i have so much aquarium equipment that i whant to get rid off i tried to trade it for some fish and rocks no luck. do you think the LFS will give me credit for the stuff?

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 41891	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 7/10/2009
Subject: Re: Poor snail :(

So is there any idea as to what caused the snails death? was it too small to travel? was there not enough calcium? The other snails are all very active as I've said, and I don't see any shell damage on any but one, and there's some pitting on the very top swirl (cone?), and I think it arrived that way. Amber biG poppa wrote: > > > yea amber the shells turns white wend they die..i keep pulling them > off the power head intake. dont for get to rmove the dead ones from > the tank so it wount affect your pH..i heard all or must inverts need > hard Gh water for there shells. it like me i keep on loosing ghost > shrimp in 40g planted tank out of 20 only have 3 left. > > --- On Fri, 7/10/09, Amber Berglund <arberglund@... > <mailto:arberglund%40gmail.com>> wrote: > > From: Amber Berglund <arberglund@... > <mailto:arberglund%40gmail.com>> > Subject: [AquaticLife] Poor snail :( > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Date: Friday, July 10, 2009, 5:38 PM > > Well my smallest new snail didn't make it. > Not sure what happened but I found the shell floating (empty) today. > It was also lighter in color, do they lose their color when they die? > I know my pH is stable and there's enough GH and KH for them, perhaps I > need to feed them more calcium directly, I plan on getting some tums > today and trying that. > > Amber > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 41892	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 7/10/2009
Subject: Re: Lenny, suggestion for bunch plants?

I was going to suggest building a small pile of gravel around the plants but just pile it loosely... just enough to hold the plant and then remove the pile after a week or two or if you see the plant start to show distress. Your other option is to plant them in pots temporarily to grow more roots, then transplant it to the Walstad substrate so there are more roots to spread out under the mud and gravel. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Amber Berglund Sent: Friday, July 10, 2009 4:32 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Lenny, suggestion for bunch plants? If I pile rocks around 'em it will rot the stem correct? Which will not work in favor... Most of the ones I've burried in the gravel/substrate have stayed put, perhaps I should stick to the lowest water flow spots and only put it there (the 2 sides of the tank). I want to plant some val's along the back wall, I love the look of them. And yes, I have stopped using excel since I switched this tank to a NPT (walstad natural planted tank). I've also become a pretty active member on the el natural forums so I can ask questions directly if I need to ;) LOL. Amber Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > > > You may need to add one of the weighted plant strips above the crown > so that the weight is above the substrate line and can be removed > after a few weeks... hoping by then, the roots have started to spread > out and grab hold. > You should NOT leave these plant weights on forever as they could > cause harm to the plant as it spreads grows. Your LFS should have LOTS > of these plant strips laying around as they come in on most plants > shipped to stores... at least my LFS and my PetsMart both say they > come in with the plants. They give me handfuls at a time when I ask. > I'm guessing you know what I'm talking about. These strips are made of > an amalgam material that looks like lead (but it's not lead) and it's > a soft pliable metal strip about 1/4" wide and 2.5" long so they can > be loosely wrapped around a plants base, above the crown and they are > heavy enough to hold most plants in place. > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> (Links to any articles referenced in > above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels > and also under Archives by Year, Month) > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On Behalf Of Amber Berglund > Sent: Friday, July 10, 2009 11:08 AM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Lenny, suggestion for bunch plants? > > They are like bacopa with less leaves, I'd have to find the long drawn > out scientific name, but it's red and I see no roots sticking out of > anywhere but the bottom of the stem. > okay here we go, it's Alternanthera reinckii var. roseafolia. > Ain't that the mouthfull? ;) LOL > It wants to float not sink, so when I try to plant it into the walstad > substrate (btw all my tanks besides the 10 gallons are now set up as > walstad tanks), it eventually floats away. > I figured plant anchors would work but I'd have to buy tons of them > for each individual stem. > > Amber > > Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > > > > > > What are you trying to plant? Something like Anacharis? Are you > > using pots are your Walstad substrate? > > > > I'm going to be leaving my home office in a minute or two so I may > > not reply for a while. I'm already running late so I can't hang around. > > Hopefully others will reply. > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>> > (Links to any articles referenced in > > above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under > > Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On Behalf Of Amber Berglund > > Sent: Friday, July 10, 2009 10:07 AM > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > Subject: [AquaticLife] Lenny, suggestion for bunch plants? > > > > I know that you threw out a suggestion at some point on how to plant > > bunch plants so they won't just refloat after you let go ;) I don't > > want to plant them all in one bunch, I've been trying to plant > > individual stems but they keep resurfacing ;) LOL. > > They are a higher nutrient needing plant seems like they'd like the > > dirt better than the surface ;) > > > > Amber

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 41893	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 7/10/2009
Subject: Re: Poor snail :(

Are you sure the shell was empty? I'm sure you've read that Mystery/Apple Snails will often close up and float around sometimes for days or even a week or more. If it was empty, then something may have munched on it. Some fish will munch on smaller snails. If it just died that fast and was not munched on, it likely wasn't diet related but possibly water parameter and travel shock issues. How are the other snails doing? Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Amber Berglund Sent: Friday, July 10, 2009 4:39 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Poor snail :( Well my smallest new snail didn't make it. Not sure what happened but I found the shell floating (empty) today. It was also lighter in color, do they lose their color when they die? I know my pH is stable and there's enough GH and KH for them, perhaps I need to feed them more calcium directly, I plan on getting some tums today and trying that. Amber

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 41894	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 7/10/2009
Subject: Re: Snails with bad shells??

Yep, it's the same Cuttlebone that the sell for birds. Make sure you get the plain as they sell flavored varieties now. I get three for $1.99 down here and that lasts a LONG time.... years, unless you have dozens of tanks. I would buy just one but one was $1.09 so I just got the three pack. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Gail Sent: Friday, July 10, 2009 4:34 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Snails with bad shells?? Any suggestions on finding cuddlebone? Do I just go to a LFS? Or do I need to get cuddlebone from the parakeet isle? or would that be considered "media" (along with the filters and such)? thanks, gail --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@...> wrote: > > Just to clarify what Amber is saying, Cuttlebone, Crushed Coral and Tums all > have Calcium Carbonate, not just calcium. While calcium will make the water > harder (GH level), the Carbonate part will also help to raise the KH level. > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right > side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) > > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On > Behalf Of Amber Berglund > Sent: Thursday, July 09, 2009 9:01 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Snails with bad shells?? > > Cuttle bones in your filter, or if you want to get the calcium directly into > them (eating it) drop a couple tablets of some fruity flavor of tums (they > are attracted to the fruit flavoring, and it's mostly calcium as Lenny > pointed out in another post). > You can also used crushed coral in your filter to raise the KH and GH (which > is what calcium does, and crushed coral is a form that has calcium in it). > Your best bet would be to drop some tums or caltrate into the tank for them > to get calcium. > > Amber > > babyhellcat69 wrote: > > > > > > my freshwater snails shells are looking bad, chipped. Im thinking they > > need some calicum or something. If so what exactly will help them and > > where can I buy it online? Thanks.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 41895	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 7/10/2009
Subject: Re: Poor snail :(

All the other snails are fine, and yes it's still in the shell but it was floating so I thought it was dead, LOL. Will it be okay if it was out of the water for a couple of hours? I just put it back, hope I didn't kill it *sigh* I've had one of those weeks where I wish I could hide from the world. my pH is 7.6, GH was 12 drops perfect for inverts according to the chart I have. Amber Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > > > Are you sure the shell was empty? I'm sure you've read that Mystery/Apple > Snails will often close up and float around sometimes for days or even a > week or more. If it was empty, then something may have munched on it. Some > fish will munch on smaller snails. > > If it just died that fast and was not munched on, it likely wasn't diet > related but possibly water parameter and travel shock issues. How are the > other snails doing? > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right > side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On > Behalf Of Amber Berglund > Sent: Friday, July 10, 2009 4:39 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Subject: [AquaticLife] Poor snail :( > > Well my smallest new snail didn't make it. > Not sure what happened but I found the shell floating (empty) today. > It was also lighter in color, do they lose their color when they die? > I know my pH is stable and there's enough GH and KH for them, perhaps > I need > to feed them more calcium directly, I plan on getting some tums today and > trying that. > > Amber > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 41896	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 7/10/2009
Subject: Re: agonogeton ulvaceus

Well it hasn't bloomed yet, but it's getting HUGE, definitely likes my walstad tank, I may have to transfer it some day, or move the smaller one now, I've figured out which one I think is the other one (I got 2 in my order but only one had crinkled leaves the other had straight ones and looked like thick grass). One of it's leaves already nearly touches the surface, soon it's gonna fan out and cover it, LOL. Amber Amber Berglund wrote: > > > So it grows a flower similar to the madagascar lace from the looks of > it. I bought one that was already blooming from my LFS and of course the > bloom died right after I bought it ;) LOL. > Thanks for the links Lenny > > Amber > > Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > > > > > > While I still like PlantGeek.net and especially their pre-formatted > > searches > > for Easy and Very Easy plants, Low-light plants, etc., they need to > start > > beefing up their profiles. Other sites are starting to put together nice > > plant profile databases. > > > > I also like this site for plant profiles... > > > http://www.plantedtank.net/forums/myplants/178-Aponogeton_ulvaceus_Aponogeto > <http://www.plantedtank.net/forums/myplants/178-Aponogeton_ulvaceus_Aponogeto> > > > > <http://www.plantedtank.net/forums/myplants/178-Aponogeton_ulvaceus_Aponogeto > <http://www.plantedtank.net/forums/myplants/178-Aponogeton_ulvaceus_Aponogeto>> > > n_ulvaceus.html > > > > This thread on The Krib includes a picture of the "flower" that > could grow > > from stem as well as a LOT of comments. > > http://www.thekrib.com/Plants/Plants/Aponogeton.html > <http://www.thekrib.com/Plants/Plants/Aponogeton.html> > > <http://www.thekrib.com/Plants/Plants/Aponogeton.html > <http://www.thekrib.com/Plants/Plants/Aponogeton.html>> > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>> > > (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right > > side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, > Month) > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On > > Behalf Of Amber Berglund > > Sent: Tuesday, July 07, 2009 10:55 PM > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > Subject: [AquaticLife] agonogeton ulvaceus > > > > I bought 2 of these, though I don't see 2 in the tank, perhaps one > > melted or > > something. Anyways one is doing VERY well, shooting up several new > leaves > > and a long straight shoot that is sticking out of the water about an > inch, > > will this grow something? I can't seem to find any pictures online > of what > > that stick like part (grass-like maybe?) turns into. Is it just like a > > reed > > that sticks out of the surface? > > Anyone out there have one of these? > > http://www.plantgeek.net/plant-103.htm > <http://www.plantgeek.net/plant-103.htm> > > <http://www.plantgeek.net/plant-103.htm > <http://www.plantgeek.net/plant-103.htm>> > > > > Amber > > > > > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 41897	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 7/10/2009
Subject: Re: Poor snail :(

Was the trap door shut? I'm not sure if you mentioned that yet. When they decide to go on one of their floating trips, they'll close their trap door, fill up their shell with some air and float around. 12 drops (or 12 dH) for GH is getting up there from your tap water baseline. Keep an eye on that and be prepared to remove some of the hardening media that you have. The other thing you have to worry about is when you do PWC's, if you do a 25% PWC and your tap water has a low GH level, lets use 0.0ppm for an example... when you do a 25% PWC, you would lower the GH level in the tank down to 8 dH and that could cause osmotic issues for the inhabitants. What was your tap water baseline GH level again? It is very low, you may have to limit the sizes of your PWC's to a lower percentage. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Amber Berglund Sent: Friday, July 10, 2009 9:08 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Poor snail :( All the other snails are fine, and yes it's still in the shell but it was floating so I thought it was dead, LOL. Will it be okay if it was out of the water for a couple of hours? I just put it back, hope I didn't kill it *sigh* I've had one of those weeks where I wish I could hide from the world. my pH is 7.6, GH was 12 drops perfect for inverts according to the chart I have. Amber Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > > > Are you sure the shell was empty? I'm sure you've read that > Mystery/Apple Snails will often close up and float around sometimes > for days or even a week or more. If it was empty, then something may > have munched on it. Some fish will munch on smaller snails. > > If it just died that fast and was not munched on, it likely wasn't > diet related but possibly water parameter and travel shock issues. How > are the other snails doing? > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> (Links to any articles referenced in > above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels > and also under Archives by Year, Month) > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On Behalf Of Amber Berglund > Sent: Friday, July 10, 2009 4:39 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Subject: [AquaticLife] Poor snail :( > > Well my smallest new snail didn't make it. > Not sure what happened but I found the shell floating (empty) today. > It was also lighter in color, do they lose their color when they die? > I know my pH is stable and there's enough GH and KH for them, perhaps > I need to feed them more calcium directly, I plan on getting some tums > today and trying that. > > Amber

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 41898	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 7/10/2009
Subject: Re: Poor snail :(

tap water GH was 6 drops after 48 hours, so half of what it is now basically. And it looked like he had lost his trap door that's why I thought he was dead, the shell was open but the snail had sucked itself up inside... if it was out of water and still alive will it be okay? I put it back in the tank just in case... Amber Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > > > Was the trap door shut? I'm not sure if you mentioned that yet. When they > decide to go on one of their floating trips, they'll close their trap > door, > fill up their shell with some air and float around. > > 12 drops (or 12 dH) for GH is getting up there from your tap water > baseline. > Keep an eye on that and be prepared to remove some of the hardening media > that you have. The other thing you have to worry about is when you do > PWC's, if you do a 25% PWC and your tap water has a low GH level, lets use > 0.0ppm for an example... when you do a 25% PWC, you would lower the GH > level > in the tank down to 8 dH and that could cause osmotic issues for the > inhabitants. > > What was your tap water baseline GH level again? It is very low, you may > have to limit the sizes of your PWC's to a lower percentage. > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right > side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On > Behalf Of Amber Berglund > Sent: Friday, July 10, 2009 9:08 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Poor snail :( > > All the other snails are fine, and yes it's still in the shell but it was > floating so I thought it was dead, LOL. > Will it be okay if it was out of the water for a couple of hours? I > just put > it back, hope I didn't kill it *sigh* I've had one of those weeks where I > wish I could hide from the world. > my pH is 7.6, GH was 12 drops perfect for inverts according to the chart I > have. > > Amber > > Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > > > > > > Are you sure the shell was empty? I'm sure you've read that > > Mystery/Apple Snails will often close up and float around sometimes > > for days or even a week or more. If it was empty, then something may > > have munched on it. Some fish will munch on smaller snails. > > > > If it just died that fast and was not munched on, it likely wasn't > > diet related but possibly water parameter and travel shock issues. How > > are the other snails doing? > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>> > (Links to any articles referenced in > > above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels > > and also under Archives by Year, Month) > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On Behalf Of Amber Berglund > > Sent: Friday, July 10, 2009 4:39 PM > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > Subject: [AquaticLife] Poor snail :( > > > > Well my smallest new snail didn't make it. > > Not sure what happened but I found the shell floating (empty) today. > > It was also lighter in color, do they lose their color when they die? > > I know my pH is stable and there's enough GH and KH for them, perhaps > > I need to feed them more calcium directly, I plan on getting some tums > > today and trying that. > > > > Amber > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 41899	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 7/10/2009
Subject: Re: agonogeton ulvaceus

I just realized that you mentioned "Madagascar Lace" in your previous reply. There was a nice LONG article about them in a recent TFH Magazine and it seems that not many folks are able to grow them for very long. How long have you had yours and is it doing well? Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Amber Berglund Sent: Friday, July 10, 2009 9:14 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] agonogeton ulvaceus Well it hasn't bloomed yet, but it's getting HUGE, definitely likes my walstad tank, I may have to transfer it some day, or move the smaller one now, I've figured out which one I think is the other one (I got 2 in my order but only one had crinkled leaves the other had straight ones and looked like thick grass). One of it's leaves already nearly touches the surface, soon it's gonna fan out and cover it, LOL. Amber Amber Berglund wrote: > > > So it grows a flower similar to the madagascar lace from the looks of > it. I bought one that was already blooming from my LFS and of course > the bloom died right after I bought it ;) LOL. > Thanks for the links Lenny > > Amber > > Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > > > > > > While I still like PlantGeek.net and especially their pre-formatted > > searches for Easy and Very Easy plants, Low-light plants, etc., they > > need to > start > > beefing up their profiles. Other sites are starting to put together > > nice plant profile databases. > > > > I also like this site for plant profiles... > > > http://www.plantedtank.net/forums/myplants/178-Aponogeton_ulvaceus_Apo > nogeto > <http://www.plantedtank.net/forums/myplants/178-Aponogeton_ulvaceus_Ap > onogeto> > > > > <http://www.plantedtank.net/forums/myplants/178-Aponogeton_ulvaceus_Ap > onogeto > <http://www.plantedtank.net/forums/myplants/178-Aponogeton_ulvaceus_Ap > onogeto>> > > n_ulvaceus.html > > > > This thread on The Krib includes a picture of the "flower" that > could grow > > from stem as well as a LOT of comments. > > http://www.thekrib.com/Plants/Plants/Aponogeton.html > <http://www.thekrib.com/Plants/Plants/Aponogeton.html> > > <http://www.thekrib.com/Plants/Plants/Aponogeton.html > <http://www.thekrib.com/Plants/Plants/Aponogeton.html>> > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>> > > (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the > > right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by > > Year, > Month) > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On Behalf Of Amber Berglund > > Sent: Tuesday, July 07, 2009 10:55 PM > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > Subject: [AquaticLife] agonogeton ulvaceus > > > > I bought 2 of these, though I don't see 2 in the tank, perhaps one > > melted or something. Anyways one is doing VERY well, shooting up > > several new > leaves > > and a long straight shoot that is sticking out of the water about an > inch, > > will this grow something? I can't seem to find any pictures online > of what > > that stick like part (grass-like maybe?) turns into. Is it just like > > a reed that sticks out of the surface? > > Anyone out there have one of these? > > http://www.plantgeek.net/plant-103.htm > <http://www.plantgeek.net/plant-103.htm> > > <http://www.plantgeek.net/plant-103.htm > <http://www.plantgeek.net/plant-103.htm>> > > > > Amber

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 41900	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 7/10/2009
Subject: Re: agonogeton ulvaceus

Apparently they like lower temps, preferably 72ish, under 75 for sure, that may be why they don't live long for people. I've had it about a week in the 55 gallon with high light and the lowest temp of all my tanks about 75, but I forgot to plug the heater in for that week and it was down to about 73 and was growing faster than it has been the last couple days with the temp back up to 75. It has several new leaves though in the last week, seems like it's doing well, it likes water flow too, from what I've heard from the plant seller I got it from, I think it was on their auction, LOL. Amber Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > > > I just realized that you mentioned "Madagascar Lace" in your previous > reply. > There was a nice LONG article about them in a recent TFH Magazine and it > seems that not many folks are able to grow them for very long. How long > have you had yours and is it doing well? > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right > side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) > > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On > Behalf Of Amber Berglund > Sent: Friday, July 10, 2009 9:14 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] agonogeton ulvaceus > > Well it hasn't bloomed yet, but it's getting HUGE, definitely likes my > walstad tank, I may have to transfer it some day, or move the smaller one > now, I've figured out which one I think is the other one (I got 2 in my > order but only one had crinkled leaves the other had straight ones and > looked like thick grass). One of it's leaves already nearly touches the > surface, soon it's gonna fan out and cover it, LOL. > > Amber > > Amber Berglund wrote: > > > > > > So it grows a flower similar to the madagascar lace from the looks of > > it. I bought one that was already blooming from my LFS and of course > > the bloom died right after I bought it ;) LOL. > > Thanks for the links Lenny > > > > Amber > > > > Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > > > > > > > > > While I still like PlantGeek.net and especially their pre-formatted > > > searches for Easy and Very Easy plants, Low-light plants, etc., they > > > need to > > start > > > beefing up their profiles. Other sites are starting to put together > > > nice plant profile databases. > > > > > > I also like this site for plant profiles... > > > > > > http://www.plantedtank.net/forums/myplants/178-Aponogeton_ulvaceus_Apo > <http://www.plantedtank.net/forums/myplants/178-Aponogeton_ulvaceus_Apo> > > nogeto > > > <http://www.plantedtank.net/forums/myplants/178-Aponogeton_ulvaceus_Ap > <http://www.plantedtank.net/forums/myplants/178-Aponogeton_ulvaceus_Ap> > > onogeto> > > > > > > > > <http://www.plantedtank.net/forums/myplants/178-Aponogeton_ulvaceus_Ap > <http://www.plantedtank.net/forums/myplants/178-Aponogeton_ulvaceus_Ap> > > onogeto > > > <http://www.plantedtank.net/forums/myplants/178-Aponogeton_ulvaceus_Ap > <http://www.plantedtank.net/forums/myplants/178-Aponogeton_ulvaceus_Ap> > > onogeto>> > > > n_ulvaceus.html > > > > > > This thread on The Krib includes a picture of the "flower" that > > could grow > > > from stem as well as a LOT of comments. > > > http://www.thekrib.com/Plants/Plants/Aponogeton.html > <http://www.thekrib.com/Plants/Plants/Aponogeton.html> > > <http://www.thekrib.com/Plants/Plants/Aponogeton.html > <http://www.thekrib.com/Plants/Plants/Aponogeton.html>> > > > <http://www.thekrib.com/Plants/Plants/Aponogeton.html > <http://www.thekrib.com/Plants/Plants/Aponogeton.html> > > <http://www.thekrib.com/Plants/Plants/Aponogeton.html > <http://www.thekrib.com/Plants/Plants/Aponogeton.html>>> > > > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>>> > > > (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the > > > right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by > > > Year, > > Month) > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On Behalf Of Amber Berglund > > > Sent: Tuesday, July 07, 2009 10:55 PM > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > Subject: [AquaticLife] agonogeton ulvaceus > > > > > > I bought 2 of these, though I don't see 2 in the tank, perhaps one > > > melted or something. Anyways one is doing VERY well, shooting up > > > several new > > leaves > > > and a long straight shoot that is sticking out of the water about an > > inch, > > > will this grow something? I can't seem to find any pictures online > > of what > > > that stick like part (grass-like maybe?) turns into. Is it just like > > > a reed that sticks out of the surface? > > > Anyone out there have one of these? > > > http://www.plantgeek.net/plant-103.htm > <http://www.plantgeek.net/plant-103.htm> > > <http://www.plantgeek.net/plant-103.htm > <http://www.plantgeek.net/plant-103.htm>> > > > <http://www.plantgeek.net/plant-103.htm > <http://www.plantgeek.net/plant-103.htm> > > <http://www.plantgeek.net/plant-103.htm > <http://www.plantgeek.net/plant-103.htm>>> > > > > > > Amber > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 41901	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 7/10/2009
Subject: Re: agonogeton ulvaceus

This seller has some decent info on the Madagascar lace and the temps it likes, it appears it likes lower light and shade too, I just removed it's shade last night, LOL go figure... I'll have to put a new piece of drift wood in as soon as it's done in the dishwasher, I was switching the driftwood around into the 125 gallon. http://www.aquabid.com/cgi-bin/auction/auction.cgi?liveplants&1247443072 Amber Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > > > I just realized that you mentioned "Madagascar Lace" in your previous > reply. > There was a nice LONG article about them in a recent TFH Magazine and it > seems that not many folks are able to grow them for very long. How long > have you had yours and is it doing well? > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right > side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) > > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On > Behalf Of Amber Berglund > Sent: Friday, July 10, 2009 9:14 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] agonogeton ulvaceus > > Well it hasn't bloomed yet, but it's getting HUGE, definitely likes my > walstad tank, I may have to transfer it some day, or move the smaller one > now, I've figured out which one I think is the other one (I got 2 in my > order but only one had crinkled leaves the other had straight ones and > looked like thick grass). One of it's leaves already nearly touches the > surface, soon it's gonna fan out and cover it, LOL. > > Amber > > Amber Berglund wrote: > > > > > > So it grows a flower similar to the madagascar lace from the looks of > > it. I bought one that was already blooming from my LFS and of course > > the bloom died right after I bought it ;) LOL. > > Thanks for the links Lenny > > > > Amber > > > > Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > > > > > > > > > While I still like PlantGeek.net and especially their pre-formatted > > > searches for Easy and Very Easy plants, Low-light plants, etc., they > > > need to > > start > > > beefing up their profiles. Other sites are starting to put together > > > nice plant profile databases. > > > > > > I also like this site for plant profiles... > > > > > > http://www.plantedtank.net/forums/myplants/178-Aponogeton_ulvaceus_Apo > <http://www.plantedtank.net/forums/myplants/178-Aponogeton_ulvaceus_Apo> > > nogeto > > > <http://www.plantedtank.net/forums/myplants/178-Aponogeton_ulvaceus_Ap > <http://www.plantedtank.net/forums/myplants/178-Aponogeton_ulvaceus_Ap> > > onogeto> > > > > > > > > <http://www.plantedtank.net/forums/myplants/178-Aponogeton_ulvaceus_Ap > <http://www.plantedtank.net/forums/myplants/178-Aponogeton_ulvaceus_Ap> > > onogeto > > > <http://www.plantedtank.net/forums/myplants/178-Aponogeton_ulvaceus_Ap > <http://www.plantedtank.net/forums/myplants/178-Aponogeton_ulvaceus_Ap> > > onogeto>> > > > n_ulvaceus.html > > > > > > This thread on The Krib includes a picture of the "flower" that > > could grow > > > from stem as well as a LOT of comments. > > > http://www.thekrib.com/Plants/Plants/Aponogeton.html > <http://www.thekrib.com/Plants/Plants/Aponogeton.html> > > <http://www.thekrib.com/Plants/Plants/Aponogeton.html > <http://www.thekrib.com/Plants/Plants/Aponogeton.html>> > > > <http://www.thekrib.com/Plants/Plants/Aponogeton.html > <http://www.thekrib.com/Plants/Plants/Aponogeton.html> > > <http://www.thekrib.com/Plants/Plants/Aponogeton.html > <http://www.thekrib.com/Plants/Plants/Aponogeton.html>>> > > > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>>> > > > (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the > > > right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by > > > Year, > > Month) > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On Behalf Of Amber Berglund > > > Sent: Tuesday, July 07, 2009 10:55 PM > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > Subject: [AquaticLife] agonogeton ulvaceus > > > > > > I bought 2 of these, though I don't see 2 in the tank, perhaps one > > > melted or something. Anyways one is doing VERY well, shooting up > > > several new > > leaves > > > and a long straight shoot that is sticking out of the water about an > > inch, > > > will this grow something? I can't seem to find any pictures online > > of what > > > that stick like part (grass-like maybe?) turns into. Is it just like > > > a reed that sticks out of the surface? > > > Anyone out there have one of these? > > > http://www.plantgeek.net/plant-103.htm > <http://www.plantgeek.net/plant-103.htm> > > <http://www.plantgeek.net/plant-103.htm > <http://www.plantgeek.net/plant-103.htm>> > > > <http://www.plantgeek.net/plant-103.htm > <http://www.plantgeek.net/plant-103.htm> > > <http://www.plantgeek.net/plant-103.htm > <http://www.plantgeek.net/plant-103.htm>>> > > > > > > Amber > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 41902	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 7/10/2009
Subject: More snail pictures

Okay so I'm skipping the groups folder, LOL. I'm better with flickr and I have a folder set up just for my snail pictures ;) LOL I've just added 3 more photos of a snail trying to leap off of a leaf ;) I took after photo's, he/she did not succeed quite so well and ended up tangled up inside the plant, LOL. http://www.flickr.com/photos/spamber/?saved=1 Photos are shown from newest to oldest just scroll down ;) Amber

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 41903	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 7/10/2009
Subject: Re: Poor snail :(

I would probably put it in a bowl of tank water to see if it reacts differently than in the tank. I'm not sure if they can re-grow an operculum (trap door cover). You might want to do a search of the AppleSnail.net forums or start your own thread over there if nobody here knows the answer. I did a quick Google but nothing stood out. If it had a trap door, it could actually survive for a while out of water... months from what I've read in the past. This is how they survive dry seasons in certain areas. They burrow into the mud and close the flap and hang out till it gets wet again. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Amber Berglund Sent: Friday, July 10, 2009 9:51 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Poor snail :( tap water GH was 6 drops after 48 hours, so half of what it is now basically. And it looked like he had lost his trap door that's why I thought he was dead, the shell was open but the snail had sucked itself up inside... if it was out of water and still alive will it be okay? I put it back in the tank just in case... Amber Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > > > Was the trap door shut? I'm not sure if you mentioned that yet. When > they decide to go on one of their floating trips, they'll close their > trap door, fill up their shell with some air and float around. > > 12 drops (or 12 dH) for GH is getting up there from your tap water > baseline. > Keep an eye on that and be prepared to remove some of the hardening > media that you have. The other thing you have to worry about is when > you do PWC's, if you do a 25% PWC and your tap water has a low GH > level, lets use 0.0ppm for an example... when you do a 25% PWC, you > would lower the GH level in the tank down to 8 dH and that could cause > osmotic issues for the inhabitants. > > What was your tap water baseline GH level again? It is very low, you > may have to limit the sizes of your PWC's to a lower percentage. > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> (Links to any articles referenced in > above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels > and also under Archives by Year, Month) > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On Behalf Of Amber Berglund > Sent: Friday, July 10, 2009 9:08 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Poor snail :( > > All the other snails are fine, and yes it's still in the shell but it > was floating so I thought it was dead, LOL. > Will it be okay if it was out of the water for a couple of hours? I > just put it back, hope I didn't kill it *sigh* I've had one of those > weeks where I wish I could hide from the world. > my pH is 7.6, GH was 12 drops perfect for inverts according to the > chart I have. > > Amber > > Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > > > > > > Are you sure the shell was empty? I'm sure you've read that > > Mystery/Apple Snails will often close up and float around sometimes > > for days or even a week or more. If it was empty, then something may > > have munched on it. Some fish will munch on smaller snails. > > > > If it just died that fast and was not munched on, it likely wasn't > > diet related but possibly water parameter and travel shock issues. > > How are the other snails doing? > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>> > (Links to any articles referenced in > > above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under > > Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On Behalf Of Amber Berglund > > Sent: Friday, July 10, 2009 4:39 PM > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > Subject: [AquaticLife] Poor snail :( > > > > Well my smallest new snail didn't make it. > > Not sure what happened but I found the shell floating (empty) today. > > It was also lighter in color, do they lose their color when they die? > > I know my pH is stable and there's enough GH and KH for them, > > perhaps I need to feed them more calcium directly, I plan on getting > > some tums today and trying that. > > > > Amber

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 41904	From: toddswoman496861@aim.com	Date: 7/10/2009
Subject: Re: Snails with bad shells??

can get it at any pet store or places like walmart in the pet section Kate Dale -----Original Message----- From: Gail <clandestine662002@...> To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Fri, Jul 10, 2009 5:34 pm Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Snails with bad shells?? Any suggestions on finding cuddlebone? Do I just go to a LFS? Or do I need to get cuddlebone from the parakeet isle? or would that be considered "media" (along with the filters and such)? thanks, gail --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@...> wrote: > > Just to clarify what Amber is saying, Cuttlebone, Crushed Coral and Tums all > have Calcium Carbonate, not just calcium. While calcium will make the water > harder (GH level), the Carbonate part will also help to raise the KH level. > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right > side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) > > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On > Behalf Of Amber Berglund > Sent: Thursday, July 09, 2009 9:01 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Snails with bad shells?? > > Cuttle bones in your filter, or if you want to get the calcium directly into > them (eating it) drop a couple tablets of some fruity flavor of tums (they > are attracted to the fruit flavoring, and it' s mostly calcium as Lenny > pointed out in another post). > You can also used crushed coral in your filter to raise the KH and GH (which > is what calcium does, and crushed coral is a form that has calcium in it). > Your best bet would be to drop some tums or caltrate into the tank for them > to get calcium. > > Amber > > babyhellcat69 wrote: > > > > > > my freshwater snails shells are looking bad, chipped. Im thinking they > > need some calicum or something. If so what exactly will help them and > > where can I buy it online? Thanks. > > > > > ------------------------------------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the home page. Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@ya hoogroups.com to receive the digest, which includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com for the No E-Mail option where you will still be able to read messages on the group and post replies. Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com to receive individual e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 41905	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 7/10/2009
Subject: Re: Poor snail :(

Well there is a chip out of the bottom of the shell could that have caused a faulty closure and somehow losing the trap door? I'm pretty sure they can't regrow one, and it's not doing anything... I assumed that when the trap door closed it closed and sealed much like a clam does. Amber Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > > > I would probably put it in a bowl of tank water to see if it reacts > differently than in the tank. > > I'm not sure if they can re-grow an operculum (trap door cover). You might > want to do a search of the AppleSnail.net forums or start your own thread > over there if nobody here knows the answer. I did a quick Google but > nothing stood out. > > If it had a trap door, it could actually survive for a while out of > water... > months from what I've read in the past. This is how they survive dry > seasons in certain areas. They burrow into the mud and close the flap and > hang out till it gets wet again. > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right > side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On > Behalf Of Amber Berglund > Sent: Friday, July 10, 2009 9:51 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Poor snail :( > > tap water GH was 6 drops after 48 hours, so half of what it is now > basically. > And it looked like he had lost his trap door that's why I thought he was > dead, the shell was open but the snail had sucked itself up inside... > if it was out of water and still alive will it be okay? I put it back > in the > tank just in case... > > Amber > > Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > > > > > > Was the trap door shut? I'm not sure if you mentioned that yet. When > > they decide to go on one of their floating trips, they'll close their > > trap door, fill up their shell with some air and float around. > > > > 12 drops (or 12 dH) for GH is getting up there from your tap water > > baseline. > > Keep an eye on that and be prepared to remove some of the hardening > > media that you have. The other thing you have to worry about is when > > you do PWC's, if you do a 25% PWC and your tap water has a low GH > > level, lets use 0.0ppm for an example... when you do a 25% PWC, you > > would lower the GH level in the tank down to 8 dH and that could cause > > osmotic issues for the inhabitants. > > > > What was your tap water baseline GH level again? It is very low, you > > may have to limit the sizes of your PWC's to a lower percentage. > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>> > (Links to any articles referenced in > > above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels > > and also under Archives by Year, Month) > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On Behalf Of Amber Berglund > > Sent: Friday, July 10, 2009 9:08 PM > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Poor snail :( > > > > All the other snails are fine, and yes it's still in the shell but it > > was floating so I thought it was dead, LOL. > > Will it be okay if it was out of the water for a couple of hours? I > > just put it back, hope I didn't kill it *sigh* I've had one of those > > weeks where I wish I could hide from the world. > > my pH is 7.6, GH was 12 drops perfect for inverts according to the > > chart I have. > > > > Amber > > > > Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > > > > > > > > > Are you sure the shell was empty? I'm sure you've read that > > > Mystery/Apple Snails will often close up and float around sometimes > > > for days or even a week or more. If it was empty, then something may > > > have munched on it. Some fish will munch on smaller snails. > > > > > > If it just died that fast and was not munched on, it likely wasn't > > > diet related but possibly water parameter and travel shock issues. > > > How are the other snails doing? > > > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>> > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>>> > > (Links to any articles referenced in > > > above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under > > > Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On Behalf Of Amber Berglund > > > Sent: Friday, July 10, 2009 4:39 PM > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > Subject: [AquaticLife] Poor snail :( > > > > > > Well my smallest new snail didn't make it. > > > Not sure what happened but I found the shell floating (empty) today. > > > It was also lighter in color, do they lose their color when they die? > > > I know my pH is stable and there's enough GH and KH for them, > > > perhaps I need to feed them more calcium directly, I plan on getting > > > some tums today and trying that. > > > > > > Amber > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 41906	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 7/10/2009
Subject: Gosh, I forgot to ask something important, LOL

Okay for the pick up for the package going out, is this coming monday going to work for you, and what time's will you be available at the address you gave me? (6500 S state road 39) If you need to bring the box to work or anything that's fine, I can change the pick up info to your work address, just let me know. Amber

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 41907	From: pam andress	Date: 7/11/2009
Subject: Re: Gosh, I forgot to ask something important, LOL

I'm in a SMALL town. Fed x does pick up and delivery at the same time. Whenever they get here! lol Monday is fine. I'll box them up in the morning and they will be ready. Pam To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com From: arberglund@... Date: Fri, 10 Jul 2009 22:24:52 -0800 Subject: [AquaticLife] Gosh, I forgot to ask something important, LOL Okay for the pick up for the package going out, is this coming monday going to work for you, and what time's will you be available at the address you gave me? (6500 S state road 39) If you need to bring the box to work or anything that's fine, I can change the pick up info to your work address, just let me know. Amber [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 41908	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 7/11/2009
Subject: Re: Gosh, I forgot to ask something important, LOL

Sounds good, but I still need to know what I'm paying you, LOL. I think I want to get extra snails just in case some don't make it, and hopefully you don't bag 'em in water like Bill did (poor snail thread in Aquaticlife). I'm interested in shrimp too, I think they would be neat to watch, I would only put them in my community tank though, they'd get eaten by the severum I'm sure, LOL But I added a cricket to the tank last week and he ignored it so not sure how he feels about things that aren't pellet looking food ;) Amber pam andress wrote: > > > > I'm in a SMALL town. Fed x does pick up and delivery at the same time. > Whenever they get here! lol Monday is fine. I'll box them up in the > morning and they will be ready. > > Pam > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > From: arberglund@... <mailto:arberglund%40gmail.com> > Date: Fri, 10 Jul 2009 22:24:52 -0800 > Subject: [AquaticLife] Gosh, I forgot to ask something important, LOL > > Okay for the pick up for the package going out, is this coming monday > going to work for you, and what time's will you be available at the > address you gave me? (6500 S state road 39) > If you need to bring the box to work or anything that's fine, I can > change the pick up info to your work address, just let me know. > > Amber > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 41909	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 7/11/2009
Subject: Re: Gosh, I forgot to ask something important, LOL

I'm not sure how I ended up sending this to the group guys, guess I was very tired last night, sorry! LOL. And it sounds like your town works like ours, I not only pick up packages and deliver them, but I also unload and load the plane... oh and do all the customer service... I think I do the job of 4 people in a bigger station, maybe more ;) Amber pam andress wrote: > > > > I'm in a SMALL town. Fed x does pick up and delivery at the same time. > Whenever they get here! lol Monday is fine. I'll box them up in the > morning and they will be ready. > > Pam > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > From: arberglund@... <mailto:arberglund%40gmail.com> > Date: Fri, 10 Jul 2009 22:24:52 -0800 > Subject: [AquaticLife] Gosh, I forgot to ask something important, LOL > > Okay for the pick up for the package going out, is this coming monday > going to work for you, and what time's will you be available at the > address you gave me? (6500 S state road 39) > If you need to bring the box to work or anything that's fine, I can > change the pick up info to your work address, just let me know. > > Amber > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 41910	From: biG poppa	Date: 7/11/2009
Subject: Re: java moss

Hi deb i wanted to return the favor I have lots of equipment im getting rid of ill send you a list let me know what you like and i will send it to you...   jaiko --- On Tue, 2/24/09, Debra <dmelton2@...> wrote: From: Debra <dmelton2@...> Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] java moss To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Date: Tuesday, February 24, 2009, 9:31 PM I have some I can send you. I blieve it is Christmas moss. Email your address to: dmelton2@gmail. com Deb Ocean Springs, MS Sent via BlackBerry by AT&T -----Original Message----- From: "greychildren" <greychildren@ yahoo.com> Date: Wed, 25 Feb 2009 01:51:24 To: <AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com> Subject: [AquaticLife] java moss Hi guys it me again.. I been to several LFS down here in south Florida an i have not been able to find some Java Moss or Xmas Moss..do guys know were i can find some. or if you have some to spare let me know... [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 41911	From: janis_chrystal	Date: 7/11/2009
Subject: cory doral catfish

I have a question on water changes...we have 2 adult cory and 4-5 babies. I have tested the water and all is okay except the NO3 which is 40. I do water changes when I see this. We have a 46 gal tank with some plants in...When I have done previous water changes I noticed my adult female (twice) lays on the bottom very still, like she is shock....I move the water around her to get her moving....and this gets her normal.....what am I doing wrong...the adult male does not react this way......Thanks Janis

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 41912	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 7/11/2009
Subject: Re: cory doral catfish

how much water are you changing out of your tank and do you add a water clarifier that removes chlorine and such? Amber janis_chrystal wrote: > > > I have a question on water changes...we have 2 adult cory and 4-5 > babies. I have tested the water and all is okay except the NO3 which > is 40. I do water changes when I see this. We have a 46 gal tank with > some plants in...When I have done previous water changes I noticed my > adult female (twice) lays on the bottom very still, like she is > shock....I move the water around her to get her moving....and this > gets her normal.....what am I doing wrong...the adult male does not > react this way......Thanks Janis > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 41913	From: biG poppa	Date: 7/11/2009
Subject: Re: cory doral catfish

I also have cory's they tend to behave strangely due to high amonia level sometimes...what your amonia reading? Remember amonia level tend to get more high at the bottom on the tanks due to bio waste being dumped on gravel and decaying plants in a planted aquarium. --- On Sat, 7/11/09, Amber Berglund <arberglund@...> wrote: From: Amber Berglund <arberglund@...> Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] cory doral catfish To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Date: Saturday, July 11, 2009, 5:56 PM how much water are you changing out of your tank and do you add a water clarifier that removes chlorine and such? Amber janis_chrystal wrote: > > > I have a question on water changes...we have 2 adult cory and 4-5 > babies. I have tested the water and all is okay except the NO3 which > is 40. I do water changes when I see this. We have a 46 gal tank with > some plants in...When I have done previous water changes I noticed my > adult female (twice) lays on the bottom very still, like she is > shock....I move the water around her to get her moving....and this > gets her normal.....what am I doing wrong...the adult male does not > react this way......Thanks Janis > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 41914	From: jan1213@aol.com	Date: 7/11/2009
Subject: Re: cory doral catfish

yes, I add prime and do a 25% water change In a message dated 7/11/2009 5:57:36 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time, arberglund@... writes: how much water are you changing out of your tank and do you add a water clarifier that removes chlorine and such? Amber janis_chrystal wrote: > > > I have a question on water changes...we have 2 adult cory and 4-5 > babies. I have tested the water and all is okay except the NO3 which > is 40. I do water changes when I see this. We have a 46 gal tank with > some plants in...When I have done previous water changes I noticed my > adult female (twice) lays on the bottom very still, like she is > shock....I move the water around her to get her moving....and this > gets her normal.....what am I doing wrong...the adult male does not > react this way......Thanks Janis > > _Messages in this topic _ (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife/message/41911;_ylc=X3oDMTM2YWlncjhhBF9TAzk3MzU5NzE0BGdycElkAzg0OTUxNTcEZ3Jwc3BJZAM xNzA1MDQyNzUyBG1zZ0lkAzQxOTEyBHNlYwNmdHIEc2xrA3Z0cGMEc3RpbWUDMTI0NzM0OTQ0OAR 0cGNJZAM0MTkxMQ--) (2) _Reply (via web post) _ (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife/post;_ylc=X3oDMTJxcWJ1a2ZxBF9TAzk3MzU5NzE0BGdycElkAzg0OTUxNTc EZ3Jwc3BJZAMxNzA1MDQyNzUyBG1zZ0lkAzQxOTEyBHNlYwNmdHIEc2xrA3JwbHkEc3RpbWUDMTI 0NzM0OTQ0OA--?act=reply&messageNum=41912) | _Start a new topic _ (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife/post;_ylc=X3oDMTJlN2s2OHA5BF9TAzk3MzU5NzE0B GdycElkAzg0OTUxNTcEZ3Jwc3BJZAMxNzA1MDQyNzUyBHNlYwNmdHIEc2xrA250cGMEc3RpbWUDM TI0NzM0OTQ0OA--) _Messages_ (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife/messages;_ylc=X3oDMTJlMmV0c2J0BF9TAzk3MzU5NzE0BGdycElkAzg0OTUxNTcEZ3Jwc3BJZAMxNzA1MDQyNzUyBHNlYwNm dHIEc2xrA21zZ3MEc3RpbWUDMTI0NzM0OTQ0Nw--) | _Files_ (http: //groups.yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife/files;_ylc=X3oDMTJmNG1sZ3RpBF9TAzk3MzU5NzE0BGdycElkAzg0 OTUxNTcEZ3Jwc3BJZAMxNzA1MDQyNzUyBHNlYwNmdHIEc2xrA2ZpbGVzBHN0aW1lAzEyNDcz NDk0NDc-) | _Photos_ (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife/photos;_ylc=X3oDMTJlY2M1cXQxBF9TAzk3MzU5NzE0BGdycElkAzg0OTUxNTcEZ3Jwc3BJZAMxNzA1MDQyNzUyBH NlYwNmdHIEc2xrA3Bob3QEc3RpbWUDMTI0NzM0OTQ0Nw--) | _Links_ (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife/links;_ylc=X3oDMTJmYXZicWU3BF9TAzk3MzU5NzE0BGdycE lkAzg0OTUxNTcEZ3Jwc3BJZAMxNzA1MDQyNzUyBHNlYwNmdHIEc2xrA2xpbmtzBHN0aW1lAzEyND czNDk0NDc-) | _Database_ (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife/database;_ylc=X3oDMTJjbG9vcWFpBF9TAzk3MzU5NzE0BGdycElkAzg0OTUxNTcEZ3Jwc3BJZAMxNzA1 MDQyNzUyBHNlYwNmdHIEc2xrA2RiBHN0aW1lAzEyNDczNDk0NDc-) | _Polls_ (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife/polls;_ylc=X3oDMTJmczMxcmdiBF9TAzk3MzU5NzE0 BGdycElkAzg0OTUxNTcEZ3Jwc3BJZAMxNzA1MDQyNzUyBHNlYwNmdHIEc2xrA3BvbGxzBHN0aW1l AzEyNDczNDk0NDc-) Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. 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Group: AquaticLife	Message: 41915	From: jan1213@aol.com	Date: 7/11/2009
Subject: Re: cory doral catfish

my ammonia was 0 In a message dated 7/11/2009 6:09:01 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time, greychildren@... writes: I also have cory's they tend to behave strangely due to high amonia level sometimes...I also have cory's they tend to behave strangely due to high amonia level sometimes...<WBR>what your amonia reading? Remember amonia level tend to get more high at the bottom on t --- On Sat, 7/11/09, Amber Berglund <_arberglund@..._ (mailto:arberglund@...) > wrote: From: Amber Berglund <_arberglund@..._ (mailto:arberglund@...) > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] cory doral catfish To: _AquaticLife@AquaticLife@Aqu_ (mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com) Date: Saturday, July 11, 2009, 5:56 PM how much water are you changing out of your tank and do you add a water clarifier that removes chlorine and such? Amber janis_chrystal wrote: > > > I have a question on water changes...we have 2 adult cory and 4-5 > babies. I have tested the water and all is okay except the NO3 which > is 40. I do water changes when I see this. We have a 46 gal tank with > some plants in...When I have done previous water changes I noticed my > adult female (twice) lays on the bottom very still, like she is > shock....I move the water around her to get her moving....and this > gets her normal.....what am I doing wrong...the adult male does not > react this way......Thanks Janis > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] **************A Good Credit Score is 700 or Above. See yours in just 2 easy steps! (http://pr.atwola.com/promoclk/100126575x1221823300x1201398714/aol?redir=http://www.freecreditreport.com/ pm/default.aspx?sc=668072&hmpgID=62&bcd=JulystepsfooterNO62) [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 41916	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 7/11/2009
Subject: Re: cory doral catfish

do you do your weekly or at least twice a month gravel vacuuming? is the water you are adding a different temp than your tank water? Amber jan1213@... wrote: > > > > my ammonia was 0 > > In a message dated 7/11/2009 6:09:01 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time, > greychildren@... <mailto:greychildren%40yahoo.com> writes: > > I also have cory's they tend to behave strangely due to high amonia level > sometimes...I also have cory's they tend to behave strangely due to high > amonia level sometimes...<WBR>what your amonia reading? Remember > amonia level > tend to get more high at the bottom on t > > --- On Sat, 7/11/09, Amber Berglund <_arberglund@... > <mailto:_arberglund%40gmail.arb>_ > (mailto:arberglund@... <mailto:arberglund%40gmail.com>) > wrote: > > From: Amber Berglund <_arberglund@... > <mailto:_arberglund%40gmail.arb>_ (mailto:arberglund@... > <mailto:arberglund%40gmail.com>) > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] cory doral catfish > To: _AquaticLife@AquaticLife@Aqu_ (mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>) > Date: Saturday, July 11, 2009, 5:56 PM > > how much water are you changing out of your tank and do you add a water > clarifier that removes chlorine and such? > > Amber > > janis_chrystal wrote: > > > > > > I have a question on water changes...we have 2 adult cory and 4-5 > > babies. I have tested the water and all is okay except the NO3 which > > is 40. I do water changes when I see this. We have a 46 gal tank with > > some plants in...When I have done previous water changes I noticed my > > adult female (twice) lays on the bottom very still, like she is > > shock....I move the water around her to get her moving....and this > > gets her normal.....what am I doing wrong...the adult male does not > > react this way......Thanks Janis > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > **************A Good Credit Score is 700 or Above. See yours in just 2 > easy > steps! > (http://pr.atwola.com/promoclk/100126575x1221823300x1201398714/aol?redir=http://www.freecreditreport.com/ > <http://pr.atwola.com/promoclk/100126575x1221823300x1201398714/aol?redir=http://www.freecreditreport.com/> > pm/default.aspx?sc=668072&hmpgID=62&bcd=JulystepsfooterNO62) > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 41917	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 7/11/2009
Subject: Re: Gosh, I forgot to ask something important, LOL

So.... is your FEDEX truck like a James Bond car and turns into a boat so you can zip across the waterway to get to your "International Airport"... with two spots for passenger planes to park.... or do you have to take the ferry back and forth? Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Amber Berglund Sent: Saturday, July 11, 2009 2:55 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Gosh, I forgot to ask something important, LOL I'm not sure how I ended up sending this to the group guys, guess I was very tired last night, sorry! LOL. And it sounds like your town works like ours, I not only pick up packages and deliver them, but I also unload and load the plane... oh and do all the customer service... I think I do the job of 4 people in a bigger station, maybe more ;) Amber pam andress wrote: > > > > I'm in a SMALL town. Fed x does pick up and delivery at the same time. > Whenever they get here! lol Monday is fine. I'll box them up in the > morning and they will be ready. > > Pam > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > From: arberglund@... <mailto:arberglund%40gmail.com> > Date: Fri, 10 Jul 2009 22:24:52 -0800 > Subject: [AquaticLife] Gosh, I forgot to ask something important, LOL > > Okay for the pick up for the package going out, is this coming monday > going to work for you, and what time's will you be available at the > address you gave me? (6500 S state road 39) If you need to bring the > box to work or anything that's fine, I can change the pick up info to > your work address, just let me know. > > Amber

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 41918	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 7/11/2009
Subject: Re: Gosh, I forgot to ask something important, LOL

I wish, I have to do it the old fashioned way like everyone else ;) LOL Amber Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > > > So.... is your FEDEX truck like a James Bond car and turns into a boat so > you can zip across the waterway to get to your "International Airport"... > with two spots for passenger planes to park.... or do you have to take the > ferry back and forth? > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right > side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On > Behalf Of Amber Berglund > Sent: Saturday, July 11, 2009 2:55 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Gosh, I forgot to ask something important, LOL > > I'm not sure how I ended up sending this to the group guys, guess I > was very > tired last night, sorry! LOL. > And it sounds like your town works like ours, I not only pick up packages > and deliver them, but I also unload and load the plane... oh and do > all the > customer service... I think I do the job of 4 people in a bigger station, > maybe more ;) > > Amber > > pam andress wrote: > > > > > > > > I'm in a SMALL town. Fed x does pick up and delivery at the same time. > > Whenever they get here! lol Monday is fine. I'll box them up in the > > morning and they will be ready. > > > > Pam > > > > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > From: arberglund@... <mailto:arberglund%40gmail.com> > <mailto:arberglund%40gmail.com> > > Date: Fri, 10 Jul 2009 22:24:52 -0800 > > Subject: [AquaticLife] Gosh, I forgot to ask something important, LOL > > > > Okay for the pick up for the package going out, is this coming monday > > going to work for you, and what time's will you be available at the > > address you gave me? (6500 S state road 39) If you need to bring the > > box to work or anything that's fine, I can change the pick up info to > > your work address, just let me know. > > > > Amber > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 41919	From: Lisa	Date: 7/12/2009
Subject: Question about catfish

I quite love catfish. Is there any species i can have in my 22 gal as a sole occupent, or as a pair? Thanks Lisa

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 41920	From: Lisa	Date: 7/12/2009
Subject: Tank Maintenance

I was just wondering, is it absolutly neccecery to do s gravel vac as well as a pwc each week? or could i get away with just doing weekily pwc's and a GV every fortnight Thanks Lisa

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 41921	From: grdnfan243@aol.com	Date: 7/12/2009
Subject: Re: Question about catfish

maybe a pictus catfish **************An Excellent Credit Score is 750. See Yours in Just 2 Easy Steps! (http://pr.atwola.com/promoclk/100126575x1222377098x1201454399/aol?redir=http://www.freecreditreport.com/pm/default.aspx?sc=668072&hmpgID=62&bcd=Jul yExcfooterNO62) [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 41922	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 7/12/2009
Subject: Re: Question about catfish

There are dozens, possibly hundreds of species that would work... depending on what you mean by "catfish". What are the dimensions of the 22G tank? L x W x D? (either inches or cm) Are you talking "normal" catfish, with the classic Channel Catfish, Blue Catfish look, with the wide front facing mouth.... or will any catfish species do? There are Otocinclus, Corydoras, Ancistrus and probably many other Genera (Genus) of catfish that have many of their species that stay under 6" and many even under 3". Many "Dwarf Suckermouth Catfish" (commonly called Plecos although most are not from the Plecostomus Genus/species) might also work. Some of these catfish prefer and/or need to be in groups of three or more or even five or more so you would have to pick the smallest adult sizes on those fish species for them to work in your 22G tank. Some others prefer to be alone and can be aggressive against conspecifics (fish of their own kind or similar fish) so in those species, you would only have one in your size tank. Since you "LOVE" catfish... you should start reading as many of the articles on this page as possible.... especially "The Catfish Basic Series" of articles. http://www.planetcatfish.com/shanesworld/ And remember, you have to do LOTS of research to make sure you are buying what you think you are buying. There are MANY Tank Buster catfish being sold by pet stores that simply cannot be kept in most home aquariums for very long. Catfish range in size from Otocinclus as small as 1" (one inch) to many species that grow to over 6' (six feet) long and even as long as 15' (fifteen feet) so you don't want to accidentally buy one of them BIG guys. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Lisa Sent: Sunday, July 12, 2009 5:25 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Question about catfish I quite love catfish. Is there any species i can have in my 22 gal as a sole occupent, or as a pair? Thanks Lisa

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 41923	From: Jim Pat.	Date: 7/12/2009
Subject: Re: Tank Maintenance

--- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Lisa" <lisa_lawless2004@...> wrote: > > I was just wondering, is it absolutly neccecery to do s gravel vac as well as a pwc each week? or could i get away with just doing weekily pwc's and a GV every fortnight > > Thanks > Lisa > I have a question along those same lines... I have a 72 gal. tank that I clean the filter once a month. I vac, the gravel every (2) weeks and that process changes ~15 gal. of water, is that enough? Let's assume a "normal" amount of fish, not crowded. BTW does anyone want any Kribs'? I have ~20 the size of neons and ANOTHER ~25 half that size, I can't even find a LFS that will take them for nothing.... JIm

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 41924	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 7/12/2009
Subject: Re: Tank Maintenance

How long is a fortnight? Just kidding... I know it's 14 days but fortnight isn't used very often any longer up here. Is it still a common term down under? While many of us preach and practice doing PWC's, gravel vacuuming and filter maintenance at least once a week, if the bioload on a tank is small, then going two weeks could be OK. It really depends on the bioload of the tank and how long you think it's OK for the fish to be stuck in a tank full of fish poop and pee? In the "old days" (you know... like when Ray and Bill and \\Steve// started keeping fish <BG>), it was common to do tank maintenance once a month and many instructional type books had folks completely breaking down their tanks on a monthly basis or every few months. Of course, most folks back then didn't know how the nitrogen cycle worked in aquaria and how all of the rest of the tanks microbiological ecology affected the water quality and why it WAS NOT a good thing to completely break down the tank like that. Further, while fish pool comes out reasonably solid, after a short while in the tank, it starts to break down. Once it breaks down, it dilutes into the water column so at that point the fish are now swimming around in diluted diarrhea. I know... DISGUSTING... but it's true. By doing weekly gravel vacuums, you are getting most of the fish poop up while it's still solid and down on the bottom After a week, you are forcing the fish to swim around in their liquefied poo. This is why I preach and practice doing weekly (or more frequent) tank and filter maintenance. Do we all slip up sometimes... yep, absolutely, guilty-as-charged... but if we decide to start doing tank maintenance every two weeks and then we slip up, then it's three weeks or four weeks before tank maintenance gets done so the fish are forced to live and breath their own liquefied fish poo for an even longer period of time. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Lisa Sent: Sunday, July 12, 2009 5:43 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Tank Maintenance I was just wondering, is it absolutly neccecery to do s gravel vac as well as a pwc each week? or could i get away with just doing weekily pwc's and a GV every fortnight Thanks Lisa

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 41925	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 7/12/2009
Subject: Re: Question about catfish

Nope. Pictus get too big for a 22G tank. http://fish.mongabay.com/species/Pimelodus_pictus.html They grow to 8" long and would need at least a 48" long tank... a 55G would be more in line of their minimum tank size. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of grdnfan243@... Sent: Sunday, July 12, 2009 7:21 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Question about catfish maybe a pictus catfish

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 41926	From: grdnfan243@aol.com	Date: 7/12/2009
Subject: Re: Question about catfish

sorry i tried **************An Excellent Credit Score is 750. See Yours in Just 2 Easy Steps! (http://pr.atwola.com/promoclk/100126575x1222377098x1201454399/aol?redir=http://www.freecreditreport.com/pm/default.aspx?sc=668072&hmpgID=62&bcd=Jul yExcfooterNO62) [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 41927	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 7/12/2009
Subject: Re: Tank Maintenance

Here is what "Bill" from one of the Pond Groups that I belong to says about filter cleaning (not to be confused with "Ol' Bill" from this group). FILTRATION: HAVING TO CLEAN A FILTER CAN BE GOOD. First of all, if a filter does not collect junk and clog, it isn't doing its job and working to get the junk out of the water. Since IT'S ALL ABOUT WATER QUALITY, the filter is supposed to take organics (fish poo, uneaten food, etc.) out of the water to IMPROVE water quality. (Inorganics = rocks = really aren't a problem.) If a filter catches organics and the filter is not clogged (yet) but also not cleaned - then the organics can dissolve and go back into the water in solution = LOWERING THE WATER QUALITY. SO, the object of a good pond (aquarium) keeper is to IMPROVE water quality = clean the organics from ANY filter BEFORE they dissolve = every other day, every third day....... Sorry for bringing reality into your lives.... I know everyone wants a filter that doesn't EVER need to be cleaned. Imagine that the filter catches poop. So it is the fishes' toilet. How often do you clean (flush) your toilet? Why? Why not the fishes' also. :-) Bill (END SNIP) Going a month between filter cleanings means that most of the fish poop that it sucked up will have dissolved and gone back into the water column as liquefied fish poo... a/k/a diarrhea. Weekly is the best policy... then on the rare occasions when we slip up, we might only go every "fortnight" instead of going three weeks or a month between tank and filter maintenance. In heavily stocked or over stocked tanks, doing twice weekly or more often tank maintenance may be required. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Jim Pat. Sent: Sunday, July 12, 2009 8:56 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Tank Maintenance --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Lisa" <lisa_lawless2004@...> wrote: > > I was just wondering, is it absolutly neccecery to do s gravel vac as > well as a pwc each week? or could i get away with just doing weekily > pwc's and a GV every fortnight > > Thanks > Lisa > I have a question along those same lines... I have a 72 gal. tank that I clean the filter once a month. I vac, the gravel every (2) weeks and that process changes ~15 gal. of water, is that enough? Let's assume a "normal" amount of fish, not crowded. BTW does anyone want any Kribs'? I have ~20 the size of neons and ANOTHER ~25 half that size, I can't even find a LFS that will take them for nothing.... JIm

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 41928	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 7/12/2009
Subject: Re: Question about catfish

Sorry. I didn't mean for or expect you to apologize. I was just trying to give you better info on the Pictus Catfish so you would know that it doesn't stay a little bitty cute little catfish... but instead grows up to be an 8" long fish eating nocturnal predator. They will eat any other fish that will fit in their mouth... and they have a pretty big mouth. Ask Amber about her cute little Red Tailed Catfish (from the same family of the Pictus Catfish). It grew really quick while feeding on her other expensive fish. I know that many fish stores and employees sell these fish to folks telling them the fish stay small and work in a community tank so I try to enlighten folks to try and stop the spread of this bad info that goes around so often. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of grdnfan243@... Sent: Sunday, July 12, 2009 9:33 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Question about catfish sorry i tried

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 41929	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 7/12/2009
Subject: Re: Tank Maintenance

As Lenny says, it depends on the amount of muck held by the gravel. The sad truth is that all substrates are hoarders. Anything they can get, they hang on to until they are forced to relinquish said objects. Depending on the size of the tank, more than anything, I clean 25% to 100% of the substrate with a water change. This is governed by the length of time it takes to do the water change, with smaller tanks, amazingly enough, and against all intuition, female or not, having larger portions of the substrate cleaned than larger tanks. With the tanks whose substrate is only partially vacuumed, just start where you left off on the last water change. This means it can be up to a month before a patch of substrate is cleaned again. However, if you have a heavy bioload, you may need to clean more often than that. As for Lenny's comment about a fortnight, you can slap him up aside the head hard enough to send him to Tuesday last, if you wish. \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Lisa Sent: Sunday, July 12, 2009 6:43 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Tank Maintenance I was just wondering, is it absolutly neccecery to do s gravel vac as well as a pwc each week? or could i get away with just doing weekily pwc's and a GV every fortnight Thanks Lisa

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 41930	From: grdnfan243@aol.com	Date: 7/12/2009
Subject: Re: Question about catfish

are there any catfish that stay miniature or small? **************An Excellent Credit Score is 750. See Yours in Just 2 Easy Steps! (http://pr.atwola.com/promoclk/100126575x1222377098x1201454399/aol?redir=http://www.freecreditreport.com/pm/default.aspx?sc=668072&hmpgID=62&bcd=Jul yExcfooterNO62) [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 41931	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 7/12/2009
Subject: Re: Tank Maintenance

As for water changes, I can remember in the early 60's trying to remember doing weekly water changes in my tank and being chided for forgetting (hey, I was a kid--there were a lot of important things to tend to, like bike riding in the warm weather, sliding in the cold, playing basketball and baseball, and generally trying to be out of the house more than I was in). In the later 60's the memory is a bit fuzzy. I seem to remember a lot of mud and rain and good music at some place in NY, Wells Street in Chicago, Rolling Stones, Cream, Vanilla Fudge, Frigid Pink, Pink Floyd, going to a prom in jeans and tails with flowers in my hair, and some other things best left unsaid in mixed company. Back then, no one knew of the nitrogen cycle. I do not think any real work on the topic was done until the 70's (is that correct Ray?) and it did take a while for the word to get out. The only times I recall breaking down tanks was to move them, or to completely re-do them with new fish and plants. The mythical beast back then was the "balanced aquarium" where a combination of fish, plants, and filtration would establish a "balance" that would maintain the fish and aquarium in good condition, and, perhaps, even allow for breeding. What, it seems, this really was that we had established a cycle in such a tank, though we did not know or understand it at the time. Tearing down a tank would disrupt this (as we obviously know today) and so was not done unless needed. A benign neglect was the watchword of the day. \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Lenny V. aka GoldLenny Sent: Sunday, July 12, 2009 10:22 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Tank Maintenance How long is a fortnight? Just kidding... I know it's 14 days but fortnight isn't used very often any longer up here. Is it still a common term down under? While many of us preach and practice doing PWC's, gravel vacuuming and filter maintenance at least once a week, if the bioload on a tank is small, then going two weeks could be OK. It really depends on the bioload of the tank and how long you think it's OK for the fish to be stuck in a tank full of fish poop and pee? In the "old days" (you know... like when Ray and Bill and \\Steve// started keeping fish <BG>), it was common to do tank maintenance once a month and many instructional type books had folks completely breaking down their tanks on a monthly basis or every few months. Of course, most folks back then didn't know how the nitrogen cycle worked in aquaria and how all of the rest of the tanks microbiological ecology affected the water quality and why it WAS NOT a good thing to completely break down the tank like that. Further, while fish pool comes out reasonably solid, after a short while in the tank, it starts to break down. Once it breaks down, it dilutes into the water column so at that point the fish are now swimming around in diluted diarrhea. I know... DISGUSTING... but it's true. By doing weekly gravel vacuums, you are getting most of the fish poop up while it's still solid and down on the bottom After a week, you are forcing the fish to swim around in their liquefied poo. This is why I preach and practice doing weekly (or more frequent) tank and filter maintenance. Do we all slip up sometimes... yep, absolutely, guilty-as-charged... but if we decide to start doing tank maintenance every two weeks and then we slip up, then it's three weeks or four weeks before tank maintenance gets done so the fish are forced to live and breath their own liquefied fish poo for an even longer period of time. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Lisa Sent: Sunday, July 12, 2009 5:43 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Tank Maintenance I was just wondering, is it absolutly neccecery to do s gravel vac as well as a pwc each week? or could i get away with just doing weekily pwc's and a GV every fortnight Thanks Lisa

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 41932	From: bill 1433	Date: 7/12/2009
Subject: Re: Tank Maintenance

Hi \\Steve//   Just wanted to say, Thanks for the Memories!   ol' bill---------I remember the 60's and with a bit of effort also the 50's! The 40's? A bit hazy! --- On Sun, 7/12/09, Steve Szabo <steve@...> wrote: From: Steve Szabo <steve@...> Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Tank Maintenance To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Date: Sunday, July 12, 2009, 11:11 AM As for water changes, I can remember in the early 60's trying to remember doing weekly water changes in my tank and being chided for forgetting (hey, I was a kid--there were a lot of important things to tend to, like bike riding in the warm weather, sliding in the cold, playing basketball and baseball, and generally trying to be out of the house more than I was in). In the later 60's the memory is a bit fuzzy. I seem to remember a lot of mud and rain and good music at some place in NY, Wells Street in Chicago, Rolling Stones, Cream, Vanilla Fudge, Frigid Pink, Pink Floyd, going to a prom in jeans and tails with flowers in my hair, and some other things best left unsaid in mixed company. Back then, no one knew of the nitrogen cycle. I do not think any real work on the topic was done until the 70's (is that correct Ray?) and it did take a while for the word to get out. The only times I recall breaking down tanks was to move them, or to completely re-do them with new fish and plants. The mythical beast back then was the "balanced aquarium" where a combination of fish, plants, and filtration would establish a "balance" that would maintain the fish and aquarium in good condition, and, perhaps, even allow for breeding. What, it seems, this really was that we had established a cycle in such a tank, though we did not know or understand it at the time. Tearing down a tank would disrupt this (as we obviously know today) and so was not done unless needed. A benign neglect was the watchword of the day. \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Lenny V. aka GoldLenny Sent: Sunday, July 12, 2009 10:22 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Tank Maintenance How long is a fortnight?  Just kidding... I know it's 14 days but fortnight isn't used very often any longer up here.  Is it still a common term down under? While many of us preach and practice doing PWC's, gravel vacuuming and filter maintenance at least once a week, if the bioload on a tank is small, then going two weeks could be OK. It really depends on the bioload of the tank and how long you think it's OK for the fish to be stuck in a tank full of fish poop and pee?  In the "old days" (you know... like when Ray and Bill and \\Steve// started keeping fish <BG>), it was common to do tank maintenance once a month and many instructional type books had folks completely breaking down their tanks on a monthly basis or every few months.  Of course, most folks back then didn't know how the nitrogen cycle worked in aquaria and how all of the rest of the tanks microbiological ecology affected the water quality and why it WAS NOT a good thing to completely break down the tank like that.  Further, while fish pool comes out reasonably solid, after a short while in the tank, it starts to break down.  Once it breaks down, it dilutes into the water column so at that point the fish are now swimming around in diluted diarrhea.  I know... DISGUSTING... but it's true.  By doing weekly gravel vacuums, you are getting most of the fish poop up while it's still solid and down on the bottom  After a week, you are forcing the fish to swim around in their liquefied poo.  This is why I preach and practice doing weekly (or more frequent) tank and filter maintenance. Do we all slip up sometimes... yep, absolutely, guilty-as-charged... but if we decide to start doing tank maintenance every two weeks and then we slip up, then it's three weeks or four weeks before tank maintenance gets done so the fish are forced to live and breath their own liquefied fish poo for an even longer period of time.  Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Lisa Sent: Sunday, July 12, 2009 5:43 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Tank Maintenance I was just wondering, is it absolutly neccecery to do s gravel vac as well as a pwc each week? or could i get away with just doing weekily pwc's and a GV every fortnight Thanks Lisa ------------------------------------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the home page.  Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com to receive the digest, which includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com for the No E-Mail option where you will still be able to read messages on the group and post replies. Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com to receive individual e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 41933	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 7/12/2009
Subject: Re: Tank Maintenance

"As for Lenny's comment about a fortnight, you can slap him up aside the head hard enough to send him to Tuesday last, if you wish. \\Steve//" LOL. Now come on \\Steve//... are you telling me that in the ivory halls and towers of Washington, D.C., they throw around "fortnight" on a regular basis??? From what I've heard, Washington, D.C., public schools can barely teach readin', writin' and 'rithmetic.... much less words such as "fortnight". And yes, I know N'Awlins public schools are no better. I see I stirred up a little hornet's nest this morning as "Ol' Bill" has replied as well but I haven't read his reply yet. I'm off to work now... got a job with a deadline so I've been working all weekend. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Steve Szabo Sent: Sunday, July 12, 2009 9:55 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Tank Maintenance As Lenny says, it depends on the amount of muck held by the gravel. The sad truth is that all substrates are hoarders. Anything they can get, they hang on to until they are forced to relinquish said objects. Depending on the size of the tank, more than anything, I clean 25% to 100% of the substrate with a water change. This is governed by the length of time it takes to do the water change, with smaller tanks, amazingly enough, and against all intuition, female or not, having larger portions of the substrate cleaned than larger tanks. With the tanks whose substrate is only partially vacuumed, just start where you left off on the last water change. This means it can be up to a month before a patch of substrate is cleaned again. However, if you have a heavy bioload, you may need to clean more often than that. As for Lenny's comment about a fortnight, you can slap him up aside the head hard enough to send him to Tuesday last, if you wish. \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Lisa Sent: Sunday, July 12, 2009 6:43 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Tank Maintenance I was just wondering, is it absolutly neccecery to do s gravel vac as well as a pwc each week? or could i get away with just doing weekily pwc's and a GV every fortnight Thanks Lisa

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 41934	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 7/12/2009
Subject: Re: Question about catfish

Yes. See my first reply. I mention many of the Genera of catfish that stay under 6". I'm sure there are many more that I do not know about. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of grdnfan243@... Sent: Sunday, July 12, 2009 10:02 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Question about catfish are there any catfish that stay miniature or small?

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 41935	From: grdnfan243@aol.com	Date: 7/12/2009
Subject: Re: Question about catfish

thank you **************An Excellent Credit Score is 750. See Yours in Just 2 Easy Steps! (http://pr.atwola.com/promoclk/100126575x1222377098x1201454399/aol?redir=http://www.freecreditreport.com/pm/default.aspx?sc=668072&hmpgID=62&bcd=Jul yExcfooterNO62) [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 41936	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 7/12/2009
Subject: Re: Tank Maintenance

I never had aquariums as a kid but my "best friend" had two of them and I remember him tearing down his tanks... seemingly once a month, "to clean them". I need to get in touch with him and see if he remembers where he "learned" to do this. I also have a couple of older crappy books about fish keeping.. from the 60's & 70's and they mention breaking down the tank on a regular basis to "clean it" good. These books are published by what are supposed to be reputable sources of information like Hartz, etc. I don't have them in front of me right now to give you specifics but I know that crappy info is in the books. I bought them at a garage sale, mainly to keep someone else from buying them and getting this crappy information. One of the books is a Goldfish Care book and talks about doing 100% water changes on the goldfish bowl once a week. Poor Goldfish!!!! Speaking of goldfish bowls, I even recently wrote A&E and M.C. Hammer about the goldfish bowl (and "Bubbles the Goldfish") that they feature on his new reality show "Hammertime". Speaking of "Hammertime", did anyone else get a kick out of the "Flash Mob" that A&E set up to promote "Hammertime"? Check out the faces on some of these customers when the "Flash Mob" starts to happen... LOL http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vfxCnZ4Dp3c (pt. 1) http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kSSt--quiM4 (pt. 2) I crack up laughing every time I watch these vids. I need to dig through my boxes in the attic to find my gold lame' Hammer-pants. LOL Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Steve Szabo Sent: Sunday, July 12, 2009 10:12 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Tank Maintenance As for water changes, I can remember in the early 60's trying to remember doing weekly water changes in my tank and being chided for forgetting (hey, I was a kid--there were a lot of important things to tend to, like bike riding in the warm weather, sliding in the cold, playing basketball and baseball, and generally trying to be out of the house more than I was in). In the later 60's the memory is a bit fuzzy. I seem to remember a lot of mud and rain and good music at some place in NY, Wells Street in Chicago, Rolling Stones, Cream, Vanilla Fudge, Frigid Pink, Pink Floyd, going to a prom in jeans and tails with flowers in my hair, and some other things best left unsaid in mixed company. Back then, no one knew of the nitrogen cycle. I do not think any real work on the topic was done until the 70's (is that correct Ray?) and it did take a while for the word to get out. The only times I recall breaking down tanks was to move them, or to completely re-do them with new fish and plants. The mythical beast back then was the "balanced aquarium" where a combination of fish, plants, and filtration would establish a "balance" that would maintain the fish and aquarium in good condition, and, perhaps, even allow for breeding. What, it seems, this really was that we had established a cycle in such a tank, though we did not know or understand it at the time. Tearing down a tank would disrupt this (as we obviously know today) and so was not done unless needed. A benign neglect was the watchword of the day. \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Lenny V. aka GoldLenny Sent: Sunday, July 12, 2009 10:22 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Tank Maintenance How long is a fortnight? Just kidding... I know it's 14 days but fortnight isn't used very often any longer up here. Is it still a common term down under? While many of us preach and practice doing PWC's, gravel vacuuming and filter maintenance at least once a week, if the bioload on a tank is small, then going two weeks could be OK. It really depends on the bioload of the tank and how long you think it's OK for the fish to be stuck in a tank full of fish poop and pee? In the "old days" (you know... like when Ray and Bill and \\Steve// started keeping fish <BG>), it was common to do tank maintenance once a month and many instructional type books had folks completely breaking down their tanks on a monthly basis or every few months. Of course, most folks back then didn't know how the nitrogen cycle worked in aquaria and how all of the rest of the tanks microbiological ecology affected the water quality and why it WAS NOT a good thing to completely break down the tank like that. Further, while fish pool comes out reasonably solid, after a short while in the tank, it starts to break down. Once it breaks down, it dilutes into the water column so at that point the fish are now swimming around in diluted diarrhea. I know... DISGUSTING... but it's true. By doing weekly gravel vacuums, you are getting most of the fish poop up while it's still solid and down on the bottom After a week, you are forcing the fish to swim around in their liquefied poo. This is why I preach and practice doing weekly (or more frequent) tank and filter maintenance. Do we all slip up sometimes... yep, absolutely, guilty-as-charged... but if we decide to start doing tank maintenance every two weeks and then we slip up, then it's three weeks or four weeks before tank maintenance gets done so the fish are forced to live and breath their own liquefied fish poo for an even longer period of time. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Lisa Sent: Sunday, July 12, 2009 5:43 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Tank Maintenance I was just wondering, is it absolutly neccecery to do s gravel vac as well as a pwc each week? or could i get away with just doing weekily pwc's and a GV every fortnight Thanks Lisa

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 41937	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 7/12/2009
Subject: Aquarium Trash Bags

So you say you have gone off the deep end and need more fingers than you have to count your tanks? Well, if you have the disease, how come I don't see your trash being put out in these trash bags. Let's the whole world know what a basket case you really are: http://www.trendhunter.com/trends/taking-out-the-rubbish-with-style http://tinyurl.com/n7z377 \\Steve//

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 41938	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 7/12/2009
Subject: Re: Question about catfish

That's a horrible suggestion, they need BIG tanks. Amber grdnfan243@... wrote: > > > maybe a pictus catfish > **************An Excellent Credit Score is 750. See Yours in Just 2 Easy > Steps! > (http://pr.atwola.com/promoclk/100126575x1222377098x1201454399/aol?redir=http://www.freecreditreport.com/pm/default.aspx?sc=668072&hmpgID=62&bcd=Jul > <http://pr.atwola.com/promoclk/100126575x1222377098x1201454399/aol?redir=http://www.freecreditreport.com/pm/default.aspx?sc=668072&hmpgID=62&bcd=Jul> > yExcfooterNO62) > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 41939	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 7/12/2009
Subject: Re: Question about catfish

Yes don't let any LFS talk you into buying a red tailed catfish, or any black/white striped catfish with a hint of a red tail until you research it, LOL. I was sold one and told it would get to 6 inches, turns out it's more like 6 feet at adult size ;) LOL Amber Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > > > There are dozens, possibly hundreds of species that would work... > depending > on what you mean by "catfish". > > What are the dimensions of the 22G tank? L x W x D? (either inches or cm) > > Are you talking "normal" catfish, with the classic Channel Catfish, Blue > Catfish look, with the wide front facing mouth.... or will any catfish > species do? > > There are Otocinclus, Corydoras, Ancistrus and probably many other Genera > (Genus) of catfish that have many of their species that stay under 6" and > many even under 3". Many "Dwarf Suckermouth Catfish" (commonly called > Plecos although most are not from the Plecostomus Genus/species) might > also > work. > > Some of these catfish prefer and/or need to be in groups of three or > more or > even five or more so you would have to pick the smallest adult sizes on > those fish species for them to work in your 22G tank. Some others > prefer to > be alone and can be aggressive against conspecifics (fish of their own > kind > or similar fish) so in those species, you would only have one in your size > tank. > > Since you "LOVE" catfish... you should start reading as many of the > articles > on this page as possible.... especially "The Catfish Basic Series" of > articles. http://www.planetcatfish.com/shanesworld/ > <http://www.planetcatfish.com/shanesworld/> > > And remember, you have to do LOTS of research to make sure you are buying > what you think you are buying. There are MANY Tank Buster catfish being > sold by pet stores that simply cannot be kept in most home aquariums for > very long. Catfish range in size from Otocinclus as small as 1" (one inch) > to many species that grow to over 6' (six feet) long and even as long > as 15' > (fifteen feet) so you don't want to accidentally buy one of them BIG guys. > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right > side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On > Behalf Of Lisa > Sent: Sunday, July 12, 2009 5:25 AM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Subject: [AquaticLife] Question about catfish > > I quite love catfish. > Is there any species i can have in my 22 gal as a sole occupent, or as a > pair? > > Thanks > Lisa > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 41940	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 7/12/2009
Subject: Re: Tank Maintenance

Honestly this is the reason I switched my tanks over to Walstad natural planted tanks. But if anyone really wants to do this make sure you take your time and do it right the first time, my first tank went through some issues because I did not put enough plants in right from the start, that is the key part. My 2 next attempts have been doing great since I set them up a couple weeks ago. http://thegab.org/Articles/WalstadTank.html and Diana's tanks: http://www.aquabotanic.com/diana_walstad_gallery.htm If you are interested just make sure you take things slowly, but if you have to break a tank completely down make sure you have your soil (good soil preferably organic, or anything without added fertilizers unless they are natural slow release like dolomitic lime or a compost from worm castings or something like that). I use organic black gold soil for all of my walstad tanks and my house plants (they're spoiled, hehe). I also use natural fertilizers rather than miracle grow fertz ;) I recently had to break my 55 gallon tank down completely and take nearly all the gravel out to set the tank up as a walstad tank, it took about 2 hours time total. I had to remove the fish of course and put them in a 5 gallon bucket, thankfully my tank is lightly stocked at this time (on fish). Then I removed all the gravel into another bucket and rinsed it out a bit so it wasn't putting up a bunch of detritus (poop) each time I stirred it. I added the dirt that had been airing out for quite a while (a month or so), then I mixed in some crushed coral, and put a light layer of gravel on, and started planting my plants. Once I was done I added more gravel around all of the plants and any spots that I missed ;) Then started slowly filling it with water (I used a bowl to diffuse the water flow so it didn't stir up any soil). I emptied it about half way after filling it, just to get any loose soil out of the water, then refilled and put my fish right back in. The plants have been growing like mad ;) LOL. The key trick to a walstad tank is to NOT vacuum the substrate at all, if you need to pick up any loose food that's fine though, but everything down there is what feeds the plants, including the fish poo. I use filters on all of my tanks and I still do my normal weekly filter maintenance, some day I'd like to try diana's trick at not having a filter at all and just a powerhead to push the water for movement. Not sure I'm ready for that yet though, LOL. Amber Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > > > How long is a fortnight? Just kidding... I know it's 14 days but fortnight > isn't used very often any longer up here. Is it still a common term down > under? > > While many of us preach and practice doing PWC's, gravel vacuuming and > filter maintenance at least once a week, if the bioload on a tank is > small, > then going two weeks could be OK. > > It really depends on the bioload of the tank and how long you think > it's OK > for the fish to be stuck in a tank full of fish poop and pee? In the "old > days" (you know... like when Ray and Bill and \\Steve// started > keeping fish > <BG>), it was common to do tank maintenance once a month and many > instructional type books had folks completely breaking down their > tanks on a > monthly basis or every few months. Of course, most folks back then didn't > know how the nitrogen cycle worked in aquaria and how all of the rest > of the > tanks microbiological ecology affected the water quality and why it > WAS NOT > a good thing to completely break down the tank like that. > > Further, while fish pool comes out reasonably solid, after a short > while in > the tank, it starts to break down. Once it breaks down, it dilutes > into the > water column so at that point the fish are now swimming around in diluted > diarrhea. I know... DISGUSTING... but it's true. By doing weekly gravel > vacuums, you are getting most of the fish poop up while it's still > solid and > down on the bottom After a week, you are forcing the fish to swim > around in > their liquefied poo. This is why I preach and practice doing weekly (or > more frequent) tank and filter maintenance. > > Do we all slip up sometimes... yep, absolutely, guilty-as-charged... > but if > we decide to start doing tank maintenance every two weeks and then we slip > up, then it's three weeks or four weeks before tank maintenance gets > done so > the fish are forced to live and breath their own liquefied fish poo for an > even longer period of time. > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right > side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On > Behalf Of Lisa > Sent: Sunday, July 12, 2009 5:43 AM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Subject: [AquaticLife] Tank Maintenance > > I was just wondering, is it absolutly neccecery to do s gravel vac as well > as a pwc each week? or could i get away with just doing weekily pwc's > and a > GV every fortnight > > Thanks > Lisa > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 41941	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 7/12/2009
Subject: Re: Question about catfish

Haha, sure it was cute... grew to a monster in about 2 months ;) started eating all my slower fish first ( mostly male guppies ), for some reason nothing eats platy's, I guess they taste icky ;) At least the pictus doesn't get as big as the red tailed catfish ;) Amber Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > > > Sorry. I didn't mean for or expect you to apologize. I was just trying to > give you better info on the Pictus Catfish so you would know that it > doesn't > stay a little bitty cute little catfish... but instead grows up to be > an 8" > long fish eating nocturnal predator. They will eat any other fish that > will > fit in their mouth... and they have a pretty big mouth. > > Ask Amber about her cute little Red Tailed Catfish (from the same > family of > the Pictus Catfish). It grew really quick while feeding on her other > expensive fish. > > I know that many fish stores and employees sell these fish to folks > telling > them the fish stay small and work in a community tank so I try to > enlighten > folks to try and stop the spread of this bad info that goes around so > often. > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right > side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On > Behalf Of grdnfan243@... <mailto:grdnfan243%40aol.com> > Sent: Sunday, July 12, 2009 9:33 AM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Question about catfish > > sorry i tried > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 41942	From: Gwydryn@aol.com	Date: 7/12/2009
Subject: Re: Question about catfish

In a message dated 7/12/2009 12:34:15 P.M. Central Daylight Time, arberglund@... writes: Yes don't let any LFS talk you into buying a red tailed catfish, or any black/white striped catfish with a hint of a red tail until you research it, LOL. I was sold one and told it would get to 6 inches, turns out it's more like 6 feet at adult size ;) LOL Amber This is why Planet Catfish is your friend...I go there every time I see some cool cat I like in my LFS and go "eek!" "oh no!" "forgetaboutit!"... I'm sticking to cute and predictable cories once I get this new tank set up...... Enid "Life is not about waiting for the storms to pass...it's about learning how to dance in the rain." **************An Excellent Credit Score is 750. See Yours in Just 2 Easy Steps! (http://pr.atwola.com/promoclk/100126575x1222377098x1201454399/aol?redir=http://www.freecreditreport.com/pm/default.aspx?sc=668072&hmpgID=62&bcd=Jul yExcfooterNO62) [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 41943	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 7/12/2009
Subject: Re: Question about catfish

The coryadoras catfish typically stay under 3 inches depending on the species, and they're cute little active guys. You'd need a shoal of at least 3 (minimum) preferably 5 or more as they like to group together and generally just "hang out" together. Amber grdnfan243@... wrote: > > > are there any catfish that stay miniature or small? > **************An Excellent Credit Score is 750. See Yours in Just 2 Easy > Steps! > (http://pr.atwola.com/promoclk/100126575x1222377098x1201454399/aol?redir=http://www.freecreditreport.com/pm/default.aspx?sc=668072&hmpgID=62&bcd=Jul > <http://pr.atwola.com/promoclk/100126575x1222377098x1201454399/aol?redir=http://www.freecreditreport.com/pm/default.aspx?sc=668072&hmpgID=62&bcd=Jul> > yExcfooterNO62) > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 41944	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 7/12/2009
Subject: Re: Tank Maintenance

I deliver to people who keep goldfish (the pond kind) in little "goldfish" bowls with plants on their desks, I feel just awful for them :( But since they're a customer I don't want to step on any toes by telling them they are wrong. Amber Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > > > I never had aquariums as a kid but my "best friend" had two of them and I > remember him tearing down his tanks... seemingly once a month, "to clean > them". I need to get in touch with him and see if he remembers where he > "learned" to do this. > > I also have a couple of older crappy books about fish keeping.. from the > 60's & 70's and they mention breaking down the tank on a regular basis to > "clean it" good. These books are published by what are supposed to be > reputable sources of information like Hartz, etc. I don't have them in > front of me right now to give you specifics but I know that crappy info is > in the books. I bought them at a garage sale, mainly to keep someone else > from buying them and getting this crappy information. One of the books > is a > Goldfish Care book and talks about doing 100% water changes on the > goldfish > bowl once a week. Poor Goldfish!!!! > > Speaking of goldfish bowls, I even recently wrote A&E and M.C. Hammer > about > the goldfish bowl (and "Bubbles the Goldfish") that they feature on > his new > reality show "Hammertime". Speaking of "Hammertime", did anyone else get a > kick out of the "Flash Mob" that A&E set up to promote "Hammertime"? Check > out the faces on some of these customers when the "Flash Mob" starts to > happen... > > LOL > > http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vfxCnZ4Dp3c > <http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vfxCnZ4Dp3c> (pt. 1) > http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kSSt--quiM4 > <http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kSSt--quiM4> (pt. 2) > > I crack up laughing every time I watch these vids. I need to dig > through my > boxes in the attic to find my gold lame' Hammer-pants. LOL > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right > side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On > Behalf Of Steve Szabo > Sent: Sunday, July 12, 2009 10:12 AM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Tank Maintenance > > As for water changes, I can remember in the early 60's trying to remember > doing weekly water changes in my tank and being chided for forgetting > (hey, > I was a kid--there were a lot of important things to tend to, like bike > riding in the warm weather, sliding in the cold, playing basketball and > baseball, and generally trying to be out of the house more than I was in). > In the later 60's the memory is a bit fuzzy. > I seem to remember a lot of mud and rain and good music at some place > in NY, > Wells Street in Chicago, Rolling Stones, Cream, Vanilla Fudge, Frigid > Pink, > Pink Floyd, going to a prom in jeans and tails with flowers in my > hair, and > some other things best left unsaid in mixed company. > > Back then, no one knew of the nitrogen cycle. I do not think any real work > on the topic was done until the 70's (is that correct Ray?) and it did > take > a while for the word to get out. > > The only times I recall breaking down tanks was to move them, or to > completely re-do them with new fish and plants. The mythical beast > back then > was the "balanced aquarium" where a combination of fish, plants, and > filtration would establish a "balance" that would maintain the fish and > aquarium in good condition, and, perhaps, even allow for breeding. > What, it seems, this really was that we had established a cycle in such a > tank, though we did not know or understand it at the time. Tearing down a > tank would disrupt this (as we obviously know today) and so was not done > unless needed. A benign neglect was the watchword of the day. > > \\Steve// > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] > On Behalf Of Lenny V. aka GoldLenny > Sent: Sunday, July 12, 2009 10:22 AM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Tank Maintenance > > How long is a fortnight? Just kidding... I know it's 14 days but fortnight > isn't used very often any longer up here. Is it still a common term down > under? > > While many of us preach and practice doing PWC's, gravel vacuuming and > filter maintenance at least once a week, if the bioload on a tank is > small, > then going two weeks could be OK. > > It really depends on the bioload of the tank and how long you think > it's OK > for the fish to be stuck in a tank full of fish poop and pee? In the "old > days" (you know... like when Ray and Bill and \\Steve// started > keeping fish > <BG>), it was common to do tank maintenance once a month and many > instructional type books had folks completely breaking down their > tanks on a > monthly basis or every few months. Of course, most folks back then didn't > know how the nitrogen cycle worked in aquaria and how all of the rest > of the > tanks microbiological ecology affected the water quality and why it > WAS NOT > a good thing to completely break down the tank like that. > > Further, while fish pool comes out reasonably solid, after a short > while in > the tank, it starts to break down. Once it breaks down, it dilutes > into the > water column so at that point the fish are now swimming around in diluted > diarrhea. I know... DISGUSTING... but it's true. By doing weekly gravel > vacuums, you are getting most of the fish poop up while it's still > solid and > down on the bottom After a week, you are forcing the fish to swim > around in > their liquefied poo. This is why I preach and practice doing weekly (or > more frequent) tank and filter maintenance. > > Do we all slip up sometimes... yep, absolutely, guilty-as-charged... > but if > we decide to start doing tank maintenance every two weeks and then we slip > up, then it's three weeks or four weeks before tank maintenance gets > done so > the fish are forced to live and breath their own liquefied fish poo for an > even longer period of time. > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> (Links to any articles referenced > in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under > Labels and > also under Archives by Year, > Month) > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] > On > Behalf Of Lisa > Sent: Sunday, July 12, 2009 5:43 AM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Subject: [AquaticLife] Tank Maintenance > > I was just wondering, is it absolutly neccecery to do s gravel vac as > well > as a pwc each week? or could i get away with just doing weekily pwc's > and a > GV every fortnight > > Thanks > Lisa > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 41945	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 7/12/2009
Subject: Re: Aquarium Trash Bags

LOL, those are great... now if only they had them in "stretch flex" ;) Amber Steve Szabo wrote: > > > So you say you have gone off the deep end and need more fingers than you > have to count your tanks? Well, if you have the disease, how come I > don't see your trash being put out in these trash bags. Let's the whole > world know what a basket case you really are: > http://www.trendhunter.com/trends/taking-out-the-rubbish-with-style > <http://www.trendhunter.com/trends/taking-out-the-rubbish-with-style> > > http://tinyurl.com/n7z377 <http://tinyurl.com/n7z377> > > \\Steve// > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 41946	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 7/12/2009
Subject: Re: Question about catfish

Very good idea, fish stores can be evil if they don't really know what they are selling you ;) LOL I'm on strike with my LFS, I've bought all of my recent fish off aquabid, as well as all of my recent plants, LOL. I even told the worker that ;) When I went in and the rams were being sold for almost 3 times as much as I bought them for I just laughed. Amber Gwydryn@... wrote: > > > > > In a message dated 7/12/2009 12:34:15 P.M. Central Daylight Time, > arberglund@... <mailto:arberglund%40gmail.com> writes: > > Yes don't let any LFS talk you into buying a red tailed catfish, or any > black/white striped catfish with a hint of a red tail until you research > it, LOL. > I was sold one and told it would get to 6 inches, turns out it's more > like 6 feet at adult size ;) LOL > > Amber > > This is why Planet Catfish is your friend...I go there every time I see > some cool cat I like in my LFS and go "eek!" "oh no!" "forgetaboutit!"... > I'm sticking to cute and predictable cories once I get this new tank set > up...... > Enid > > "Life is not about waiting for the storms to pass...it's about learning > how to dance in the rain." > **************An Excellent Credit Score is 750. See Yours in Just 2 Easy > Steps! > (http://pr.atwola.com/promoclk/100126575x1222377098x1201454399/aol?redir=http://www.freecreditreport.com/pm/default.aspx?sc=668072&hmpgID=62&bcd=Jul > <http://pr.atwola.com/promoclk/100126575x1222377098x1201454399/aol?redir=http://www.freecreditreport.com/pm/default.aspx?sc=668072&hmpgID=62&bcd=Jul> > yExcfooterNO62) > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 41947	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 7/12/2009
Subject: Close up's of my snails

Not that anyone really cares, but I got a couple good close up's of my snails with their orange eyes ;) hehe. http://www.flickr.com/photos/spamber/3711491557/in/set-72157621157741856/ The next one in the set is a separate snail close up. Amber

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 41948	From: grdnfan243@aol.com	Date: 7/12/2009
Subject: Re: Question about catfish

do they eat fish too? **************An Excellent Credit Score is 750. See Yours in Just 2 Easy Steps! (http://pr.atwola.com/promoclk/100126575x1222377098x1201454399/aol?redir=http://www.freecreditreport.com/pm/default.aspx?sc=668072&hmpgID=62&bcd=Jul yExcfooterNO62) [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 41949	From: grdnfan243@aol.com	Date: 7/12/2009
Subject: Re: Question about catfish

what is aquabid? **************An Excellent Credit Score is 750. See Yours in Just 2 Easy Steps! (http://pr.atwola.com/promoclk/100126575x1222377098x1201454399/aol?redir=http://www.freecreditreport.com/pm/default.aspx?sc=668072&hmpgID=62&bcd=Jul yExcfooterNO62) [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 41950	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 7/12/2009
Subject: Re: Question about catfish

are you asking about pictus catfish? or coryadoras? Amber grdnfan243@... wrote: > > > do they eat fish too? > **************An Excellent Credit Score is 750. See Yours in Just 2 Easy > Steps! > (http://pr.atwola.com/promoclk/100126575x1222377098x1201454399/aol?redir=http://www.freecreditreport.com/pm/default.aspx?sc=668072&hmpgID=62&bcd=Jul > <http://pr.atwola.com/promoclk/100126575x1222377098x1201454399/aol?redir=http://www.freecreditreport.com/pm/default.aspx?sc=668072&hmpgID=62&bcd=Jul> > yExcfooterNO62) > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 41951	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 7/12/2009
Subject: Re: Question about catfish

www.aquabid.com It's a popular place for people to sell fish, there are some international sellers but the shipping is expensive. Good place for plants though. Amber grdnfan243@... wrote: > > > what is aquabid? > **************An Excellent Credit Score is 750. See Yours in Just 2 Easy > Steps! > (http://pr.atwola.com/promoclk/100126575x1222377098x1201454399/aol?redir=http://www.freecreditreport.com/pm/default.aspx?sc=668072&hmpgID=62&bcd=Jul > <http://pr.atwola.com/promoclk/100126575x1222377098x1201454399/aol?redir=http://www.freecreditreport.com/pm/default.aspx?sc=668072&hmpgID=62&bcd=Jul> > yExcfooterNO62) > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 41952	From: grdnfan243@aol.com	Date: 7/12/2009
Subject: Re: Question about catfish

coryadoras **************An Excellent Credit Score is 750. See Yours in Just 2 Easy Steps! (http://pr.atwola.com/promoclk/100126575x1222377098x1201454399/aol?redir=http://www.freecreditreport.com/pm/default.aspx?sc=668072&hmpgID=62&bcd=Jul yExcfooterNO62) [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 41953	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 7/12/2009
Subject: Re: Question about catfish

Oh no, they shouldn't eat any other fish unless you have very very very tiny ones, and I don't know of any, LOL. They might eat eggs that other fish lay or something though, they are very peaceful fish. Amber grdnfan243@... wrote: > > > coryadoras > **************An Excellent Credit Score is 750. See Yours in Just 2 Easy > Steps! > (http://pr.atwola.com/promoclk/100126575x1222377098x1201454399/aol?redir=http://www.freecreditreport.com/pm/default.aspx?sc=668072&hmpgID=62&bcd=Jul > <http://pr.atwola.com/promoclk/100126575x1222377098x1201454399/aol?redir=http://www.freecreditreport.com/pm/default.aspx?sc=668072&hmpgID=62&bcd=Jul> > yExcfooterNO62) > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 41954	From: grdnfan243@aol.com	Date: 7/12/2009
Subject: Re: Question about catfish

ty **************An Excellent Credit Score is 750. See Yours in Just 2 Easy Steps! (http://pr.atwola.com/promoclk/100126575x1222377098x1201454399/aol?redir=http://www.freecreditreport.com/pm/default.aspx?sc=668072&hmpgID=62&bcd=Jul yExcfooterNO62) [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 41955	From: Menagerie_Manager	Date: 7/12/2009
Subject: Re: Tank Maintenance

You just described my sis-in-luv. She was over the other day and amazed at how large my goldies are. She asked me what their lifespan was supposed to be and, when I told her ten or so years, her jaw just about hit the floor. She's never been able to get one to live more than six months. Uhm, three goldfish in five gallons of water, with regular 100% water changes (straight from the tap) and no testing what so ever, are doing really well to survive six months. DebR and the Three Goldfish (CB, Lucille, and Raven) ----- Original Message ----- From: "Amber Berglund" <arberglund@...> To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Sunday, July 12, 2009 1:50 PM Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Tank Maintenance >I deliver to people who keep goldfish (the pond kind) in little > "goldfish" bowls with plants on their desks, I feel just awful for them :( > But since they're a customer I don't want to step on any toes by telling > them they are wrong. > > Amber > > Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: >> >> >> I never had aquariums as a kid but my "best friend" had two of them and I >> remember him tearing down his tanks... seemingly once a month, "to clean >> them". I need to get in touch with him and see if he remembers where he >> "learned" to do this. >> >> I also have a couple of older crappy books about fish keeping.. from the >> 60's & 70's and they mention breaking down the tank on a regular basis to >> "clean it" good. These books are published by what are supposed to be >> reputable sources of information like Hartz, etc. I don't have them in >> front of me right now to give you specifics but I know that crappy info >> is >> in the books. I bought them at a garage sale, mainly to keep someone else >> from buying them and getting this crappy information. One of the books >> is a >> Goldfish Care book and talks about doing 100% water changes on the >> goldfish >> bowl once a week. Poor Goldfish!!!! >> >> Speaking of goldfish bowls, I even recently wrote A&E and M.C. Hammer >> about >> the goldfish bowl (and "Bubbles the Goldfish") that they feature on >> his new >> reality show "Hammertime". Speaking of "Hammertime", did anyone else get >> a >> kick out of the "Flash Mob" that A&E set up to promote "Hammertime"? >> Check >> out the faces on some of these customers when the "Flash Mob" starts to >> happen... >> >> LOL >> >> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vfxCnZ4Dp3c >> <http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vfxCnZ4Dp3c> (pt. 1) >> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kSSt--quiM4 >> <http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kSSt--quiM4> (pt. 2) >> >> I crack up laughing every time I watch these vids. I need to dig >> through my >> boxes in the attic to find my gold lame' Hammer-pants. LOL >> >> Lenny Vasbinder >> Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> >> (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right >> side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com >> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> >> [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com >> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On >> Behalf Of Steve Szabo >> Sent: Sunday, July 12, 2009 10:12 AM >> To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> >> Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Tank Maintenance >> >> As for water changes, I can remember in the early 60's trying to remember >> doing weekly water changes in my tank and being chided for forgetting >> (hey, >> I was a kid--there were a lot of important things to tend to, like bike >> riding in the warm weather, sliding in the cold, playing basketball and >> baseball, and generally trying to be out of the house more than I was >> in). >> In the later 60's the memory is a bit fuzzy. >> I seem to remember a lot of mud and rain and good music at some place >> in NY, >> Wells Street in Chicago, Rolling Stones, Cream, Vanilla Fudge, Frigid >> Pink, >> Pink Floyd, going to a prom in jeans and tails with flowers in my >> hair, and >> some other things best left unsaid in mixed company. >> >> Back then, no one knew of the nitrogen cycle. I do not think any real >> work >> on the topic was done until the 70's (is that correct Ray?) and it did >> take >> a while for the word to get out. >> >> The only times I recall breaking down tanks was to move them, or to >> completely re-do them with new fish and plants. The mythical beast >> back then >> was the "balanced aquarium" where a combination of fish, plants, and >> filtration would establish a "balance" that would maintain the fish and >> aquarium in good condition, and, perhaps, even allow for breeding. >> What, it seems, this really was that we had established a cycle in such a >> tank, though we did not know or understand it at the time. Tearing down a >> tank would disrupt this (as we obviously know today) and so was not done >> unless needed. A benign neglect was the watchword of the day. >> >> \\Steve// >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com >> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> >> [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com >> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] >> On Behalf Of Lenny V. aka GoldLenny >> Sent: Sunday, July 12, 2009 10:22 AM >> To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> >> Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Tank Maintenance >> >> How long is a fortnight? Just kidding... I know it's 14 days but >> fortnight >> isn't used very often any longer up here. Is it still a common term down >> under? >> >> While many of us preach and practice doing PWC's, gravel vacuuming and >> filter maintenance at least once a week, if the bioload on a tank is >> small, >> then going two weeks could be OK. >> >> It really depends on the bioload of the tank and how long you think >> it's OK >> for the fish to be stuck in a tank full of fish poop and pee? In the "old >> days" (you know... like when Ray and Bill and \\Steve// started >> keeping fish >> <BG>), it was common to do tank maintenance once a month and many >> instructional type books had folks completely breaking down their >> tanks on a >> monthly basis or every few months. Of course, most folks back then didn't >> know how the nitrogen cycle worked in aquaria and how all of the rest >> of the >> tanks microbiological ecology affected the water quality and why it >> WAS NOT >> a good thing to completely break down the tank like that. >> >> Further, while fish pool comes out reasonably solid, after a short >> while in >> the tank, it starts to break down. Once it breaks down, it dilutes >> into the >> water column so at that point the fish are now swimming around in diluted >> diarrhea. I know... DISGUSTING... but it's true. By doing weekly gravel >> vacuums, you are getting most of the fish poop up while it's still >> solid and >> down on the bottom After a week, you are forcing the fish to swim >> around in >> their liquefied poo. This is why I preach and practice doing weekly (or >> more frequent) tank and filter maintenance. >> >> Do we all slip up sometimes... yep, absolutely, guilty-as-charged... >> but if >> we decide to start doing tank maintenance every two weeks and then we >> slip >> up, then it's three weeks or four weeks before tank maintenance gets >> done so >> the fish are forced to live and breath their own liquefied fish poo for >> an >> even longer period of time. >> >> Lenny Vasbinder >> Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com >> <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> (Links to any articles referenced >> in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under >> Labels and >> also under Archives by Year, >> Month) >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com >> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> >> [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com >> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] >> On >> Behalf Of Lisa >> Sent: Sunday, July 12, 2009 5:43 AM >> To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> >> Subject: [AquaticLife] Tank Maintenance >> >> I was just wondering, is it absolutly neccecery to do s gravel vac as >> well >> as a pwc each week? or could i get away with just doing weekily pwc's >> and a >> GV every fortnight >> >> Thanks >> Lisa >> >> > > > ------------------------------------ > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. > ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> > PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to > the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the > SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- > <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. > > If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of unsubscribing, you > can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the > home page. > > Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com to receive the digest, which > includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email > > Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com for the No E-Mail option where > you will still be able to read messages on the group and post replies. > > Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com to receive individual > e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links > > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 41956	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 7/12/2009
Subject: Re: Tank Maintenance

I guess I should feel lucky that these ones have a plant to help keep the water cleaner... but still, that tiny little bowl bothers me. Amber Menagerie_Manager wrote: > > > You just described my sis-in-luv. She was over the other day and > amazed at how large my goldies are. She asked me what their lifespan was > supposed to be and, when I told her ten or so years, her jaw just > about hit > the floor. She's never been able to get one to live more than six months. > Uhm, three goldfish in five gallons of water, with regular 100% water > changes (straight from the tap) and no testing what so ever, are doing > really well to survive six months. > > DebR and the Three Goldfish > (CB, Lucille, and Raven) > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Amber Berglund" <arberglund@... > <mailto:arberglund%40gmail.com>> > To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>> > Sent: Sunday, July 12, 2009 1:50 PM > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Tank Maintenance > > >I deliver to people who keep goldfish (the pond kind) in little > > "goldfish" bowls with plants on their desks, I feel just awful for > them :( > > But since they're a customer I don't want to step on any toes by telling > > them they are wrong. > > > > Amber > > > > Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > >> > >> > >> I never had aquariums as a kid but my "best friend" had two of them > and I > >> remember him tearing down his tanks... seemingly once a month, "to > clean > >> them". I need to get in touch with him and see if he remembers where he > >> "learned" to do this. > >> > >> I also have a couple of older crappy books about fish keeping.. > from the > >> 60's & 70's and they mention breaking down the tank on a regular > basis to > >> "clean it" good. These books are published by what are supposed to be > >> reputable sources of information like Hartz, etc. I don't have them in > >> front of me right now to give you specifics but I know that crappy > info > >> is > >> in the books. I bought them at a garage sale, mainly to keep > someone else > >> from buying them and getting this crappy information. One of the books > >> is a > >> Goldfish Care book and talks about doing 100% water changes on the > >> goldfish > >> bowl once a week. Poor Goldfish!!!! > >> > >> Speaking of goldfish bowls, I even recently wrote A&E and M.C. Hammer > >> about > >> the goldfish bowl (and "Bubbles the Goldfish") that they feature on > >> his new > >> reality show "Hammertime". Speaking of "Hammertime", did anyone > else get > >> a > >> kick out of the "Flash Mob" that A&E set up to promote "Hammertime"? > >> Check > >> out the faces on some of these customers when the "Flash Mob" starts to > >> happen... > >> > >> LOL > >> > >> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vfxCnZ4Dp3c > <http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vfxCnZ4Dp3c> > >> <http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vfxCnZ4Dp3c > <http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vfxCnZ4Dp3c>> (pt. 1) > >> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kSSt--quiM4 > <http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kSSt--quiM4> > >> <http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kSSt--quiM4 > <http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kSSt--quiM4>> (pt. 2) > >> > >> I crack up laughing every time I watch these vids. I need to dig > >> through my > >> boxes in the attic to find my gold lame' Hammer-pants. LOL > >> > >> Lenny Vasbinder > >> Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>> > >> (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the > right > >> side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, > Month) > >> > >> -----Original Message----- > >> From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > >> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > >> [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > >> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On > >> Behalf Of Steve Szabo > >> Sent: Sunday, July 12, 2009 10:12 AM > >> To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > >> Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Tank Maintenance > >> > >> As for water changes, I can remember in the early 60's trying to > remember > >> doing weekly water changes in my tank and being chided for forgetting > >> (hey, > >> I was a kid--there were a lot of important things to tend to, like bike > >> riding in the warm weather, sliding in the cold, playing basketball and > >> baseball, and generally trying to be out of the house more than I was > >> in). > >> In the later 60's the memory is a bit fuzzy. > >> I seem to remember a lot of mud and rain and good music at some place > >> in NY, > >> Wells Street in Chicago, Rolling Stones, Cream, Vanilla Fudge, Frigid > >> Pink, > >> Pink Floyd, going to a prom in jeans and tails with flowers in my > >> hair, and > >> some other things best left unsaid in mixed company. > >> > >> Back then, no one knew of the nitrogen cycle. I do not think any real > >> work > >> on the topic was done until the 70's (is that correct Ray?) and it did > >> take > >> a while for the word to get out. > >> > >> The only times I recall breaking down tanks was to move them, or to > >> completely re-do them with new fish and plants. The mythical beast > >> back then > >> was the "balanced aquarium" where a combination of fish, plants, and > >> filtration would establish a "balance" that would maintain the fish and > >> aquarium in good condition, and, perhaps, even allow for breeding. > >> What, it seems, this really was that we had established a cycle in > such a > >> tank, though we did not know or understand it at the time. Tearing > down a > >> tank would disrupt this (as we obviously know today) and so was not > done > >> unless needed. A benign neglect was the watchword of the day. > >> > >> \\Steve// > >> > >> -----Original Message----- > >> From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > >> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > >> [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > >> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] > >> On Behalf Of Lenny V. aka GoldLenny > >> Sent: Sunday, July 12, 2009 10:22 AM > >> To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > >> Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Tank Maintenance > >> > >> How long is a fortnight? Just kidding... I know it's 14 days but > >> fortnight > >> isn't used very often any longer up here. Is it still a common term > down > >> under? > >> > >> While many of us preach and practice doing PWC's, gravel vacuuming and > >> filter maintenance at least once a week, if the bioload on a tank is > >> small, > >> then going two weeks could be OK. > >> > >> It really depends on the bioload of the tank and how long you think > >> it's OK > >> for the fish to be stuck in a tank full of fish poop and pee? In > the "old > >> days" (you know... like when Ray and Bill and \\Steve// started > >> keeping fish > >> <BG>), it was common to do tank maintenance once a month and many > >> instructional type books had folks completely breaking down their > >> tanks on a > >> monthly basis or every few months. Of course, most folks back then > didn't > >> know how the nitrogen cycle worked in aquaria and how all of the rest > >> of the > >> tanks microbiological ecology affected the water quality and why it > >> WAS NOT > >> a good thing to completely break down the tank like that. > >> > >> Further, while fish pool comes out reasonably solid, after a short > >> while in > >> the tank, it starts to break down. Once it breaks down, it dilutes > >> into the > >> water column so at that point the fish are now swimming around in > diluted > >> diarrhea. I know... DISGUSTING... but it's true. By doing weekly gravel > >> vacuums, you are getting most of the fish poop up while it's still > >> solid and > >> down on the bottom After a week, you are forcing the fish to swim > >> around in > >> their liquefied poo. This is why I preach and practice doing weekly (or > >> more frequent) tank and filter maintenance. > >> > >> Do we all slip up sometimes... yep, absolutely, guilty-as-charged... > >> but if > >> we decide to start doing tank maintenance every two weeks and then we > >> slip > >> up, then it's three weeks or four weeks before tank maintenance gets > >> done so > >> the fish are forced to live and breath their own liquefied fish poo > for > >> an > >> even longer period of time. > >> > >> Lenny Vasbinder > >> Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > >> <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>> > (Links to any articles referenced > >> in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under > >> Labels and > >> also under Archives by Year, > >> Month) > >> > >> -----Original Message----- > >> From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > >> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > >> [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > >> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] > >> On > >> Behalf Of Lisa > >> Sent: Sunday, July 12, 2009 5:43 AM > >> To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > >> Subject: [AquaticLife] Tank Maintenance > >> > >> I was just wondering, is it absolutly neccecery to do s gravel vac as > >> well > >> as a pwc each week? or could i get away with just doing weekily pwc's > >> and a > >> GV every fortnight > >> > >> Thanks > >> Lisa > >> > >> > > > > > > ------------------------------------ > > > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, > Thank You. > > ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> > > PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT > important to > > the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the > > SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- > > <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. > > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. > > > > If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of > unsubscribing, you > > can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My Membership" > on the > > home page. > > > > Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:aquaticlife-digest%40yahoogroups.com> to receive the digest, > which > > includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email > > > > Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:aquaticlife-nomail%40yahoogroups.com> for the No E-Mail option > where > > you will still be able to read messages on the group and post replies. > > > > Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:aquaticlife-normal%40yahoogroups.com> to receive individual > > e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 41957	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 7/12/2009
Subject: Guppy (naja) grass

Okay I'm just not sure what to do with this bunch of guppy grass, do I plant it, do I float it? When I float it it just goops into one big mass and attaches itself to one of my taller plants :( Can I glue it to drift wood? LOL Amber

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 41958	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 7/12/2009
Subject: Re: Tank Maintenance

Her jaw would have gone through the floor if you told her the truth instead of pulling your punches. Goldfish should live at least 25 years, and there are dome on record that lived for more than 100 years, which is probably longer than her expected, and I am guessing here, remaining lifespan. \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Menagerie_Manager Sent: Sunday, July 12, 2009 2:38 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Tank Maintenance You just described my sis-in-luv. She was over the other day and amazed at how large my goldies are. She asked me what their lifespan was supposed to be and, when I told her ten or so years, her jaw just about hit the floor. She's never been able to get one to live more than six months. Uhm, three goldfish in five gallons of water, with regular 100% water changes (straight from the tap) and no testing what so ever, are doing really well to survive six months. DebR and the Three Goldfish (CB, Lucille, and Raven) ----- Original Message ----- From: "Amber Berglund" <arberglund@...> To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Sunday, July 12, 2009 1:50 PM Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Tank Maintenance >I deliver to people who keep goldfish (the pond kind) in little > "goldfish" bowls with plants on their desks, I feel just awful for them :( > But since they're a customer I don't want to step on any toes by telling > them they are wrong. > > Amber > > Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: >> >> >> I never had aquariums as a kid but my "best friend" had two of them and I >> remember him tearing down his tanks... seemingly once a month, "to clean >> them". I need to get in touch with him and see if he remembers where he >> "learned" to do this. >> >> I also have a couple of older crappy books about fish keeping.. from the >> 60's & 70's and they mention breaking down the tank on a regular basis to >> "clean it" good. These books are published by what are supposed to be >> reputable sources of information like Hartz, etc. I don't have them in >> front of me right now to give you specifics but I know that crappy info >> is >> in the books. I bought them at a garage sale, mainly to keep someone else >> from buying them and getting this crappy information. One of the books >> is a >> Goldfish Care book and talks about doing 100% water changes on the >> goldfish >> bowl once a week. Poor Goldfish!!!! >> >> Speaking of goldfish bowls, I even recently wrote A&E and M.C. Hammer >> about >> the goldfish bowl (and "Bubbles the Goldfish") that they feature on >> his new >> reality show "Hammertime". Speaking of "Hammertime", did anyone else get >> a >> kick out of the "Flash Mob" that A&E set up to promote "Hammertime"? >> Check >> out the faces on some of these customers when the "Flash Mob" starts to >> happen... >> >> LOL >> >> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vfxCnZ4Dp3c >> <http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vfxCnZ4Dp3c> (pt. 1) >> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kSSt--quiM4 >> <http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kSSt--quiM4> (pt. 2) >> >> I crack up laughing every time I watch these vids. I need to dig >> through my >> boxes in the attic to find my gold lame' Hammer-pants. LOL >> >> Lenny Vasbinder >> Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> >> (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right >> side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com >> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> >> [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com >> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On >> Behalf Of Steve Szabo >> Sent: Sunday, July 12, 2009 10:12 AM >> To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> >> Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Tank Maintenance >> >> As for water changes, I can remember in the early 60's trying to remember >> doing weekly water changes in my tank and being chided for forgetting >> (hey, >> I was a kid--there were a lot of important things to tend to, like bike >> riding in the warm weather, sliding in the cold, playing basketball and >> baseball, and generally trying to be out of the house more than I was >> in). >> In the later 60's the memory is a bit fuzzy. >> I seem to remember a lot of mud and rain and good music at some place >> in NY, >> Wells Street in Chicago, Rolling Stones, Cream, Vanilla Fudge, Frigid >> Pink, >> Pink Floyd, going to a prom in jeans and tails with flowers in my >> hair, and >> some other things best left unsaid in mixed company. >> >> Back then, no one knew of the nitrogen cycle. I do not think any real >> work >> on the topic was done until the 70's (is that correct Ray?) and it did >> take >> a while for the word to get out. >> >> The only times I recall breaking down tanks was to move them, or to >> completely re-do them with new fish and plants. The mythical beast >> back then >> was the "balanced aquarium" where a combination of fish, plants, and >> filtration would establish a "balance" that would maintain the fish and >> aquarium in good condition, and, perhaps, even allow for breeding. >> What, it seems, this really was that we had established a cycle in such a >> tank, though we did not know or understand it at the time. Tearing down a >> tank would disrupt this (as we obviously know today) and so was not done >> unless needed. A benign neglect was the watchword of the day. >> >> \\Steve// >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com >> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> >> [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com >> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] >> On Behalf Of Lenny V. aka GoldLenny >> Sent: Sunday, July 12, 2009 10:22 AM >> To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> >> Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Tank Maintenance >> >> How long is a fortnight? Just kidding... I know it's 14 days but >> fortnight >> isn't used very often any longer up here. Is it still a common term down >> under? >> >> While many of us preach and practice doing PWC's, gravel vacuuming and >> filter maintenance at least once a week, if the bioload on a tank is >> small, >> then going two weeks could be OK. >> >> It really depends on the bioload of the tank and how long you think >> it's OK >> for the fish to be stuck in a tank full of fish poop and pee? In the "old >> days" (you know... like when Ray and Bill and \\Steve// started >> keeping fish >> <BG>), it was common to do tank maintenance once a month and many >> instructional type books had folks completely breaking down their >> tanks on a >> monthly basis or every few months. Of course, most folks back then didn't >> know how the nitrogen cycle worked in aquaria and how all of the rest >> of the >> tanks microbiological ecology affected the water quality and why it >> WAS NOT >> a good thing to completely break down the tank like that. >> >> Further, while fish pool comes out reasonably solid, after a short >> while in >> the tank, it starts to break down. Once it breaks down, it dilutes >> into the >> water column so at that point the fish are now swimming around in diluted >> diarrhea. I know... DISGUSTING... but it's true. By doing weekly gravel >> vacuums, you are getting most of the fish poop up while it's still >> solid and >> down on the bottom After a week, you are forcing the fish to swim >> around in >> their liquefied poo. This is why I preach and practice doing weekly (or >> more frequent) tank and filter maintenance. >> >> Do we all slip up sometimes... yep, absolutely, guilty-as-charged... >> but if >> we decide to start doing tank maintenance every two weeks and then we >> slip >> up, then it's three weeks or four weeks before tank maintenance gets >> done so >> the fish are forced to live and breath their own liquefied fish poo for >> an >> even longer period of time. >> >> Lenny Vasbinder >> Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com >> <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> (Links to any articles referenced >> in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under >> Labels and >> also under Archives by Year, >> Month) >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com >> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> >> [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com >> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] >> On >> Behalf Of Lisa >> Sent: Sunday, July 12, 2009 5:43 AM >> To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> >> Subject: [AquaticLife] Tank Maintenance >> >> I was just wondering, is it absolutly neccecery to do s gravel vac as >> well >> as a pwc each week? or could i get away with just doing weekily pwc's >> and a >> GV every fortnight >> >> Thanks >> Lisa >> >> >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 41959	From: Shirley Reichard	Date: 7/12/2009
Subject: Re: catfish

I have two albino cats in a 20-gal long (with platys). I've had them for about six months and they're doing fine. Shirley --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Lisa" <lisa_lawless2004@...> wrote: > > I quite love catfish. > Is there any species i can have in my 22 gal as a sole occupent, or as a pair? > > Thanks > Lisa >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 41960	From: caroline	Date: 7/12/2009
Subject: Re: Tank Maintenance

how do you know if they are the pond type? I keep one in a 15 gal. tank.. I feel bad.. caroline >I deliver to people who keep goldfish (the pond kind) in little >"goldfish" bowls with plants on their desks, I feel just awful for them :( >But since they're a customer I don't want to step on any toes by telling >them they are wrong. > >Amber > >Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > > > > > > I never had aquariums as a kid but my "best friend" had two of them and I > > remember him tearing down his tanks... seemingly once a month, "to clean > > them". I need to get in touch with him and see if he remembers where he > > "learned" to do this. > > > > I also have a couple of older crappy books about fish keeping.. from the > > 60's & 70's and they mention breaking down the tank on a regular basis to > > "clean it" good. These books are published by what are supposed to be > > reputable sources of information like Hartz, etc. I don't have them in > > front of me right now to give you specifics but I know that crappy info is > > in the books. I bought them at a garage sale, mainly to keep someone else > > from buying them and getting this crappy information. One of the books > > is a > > Goldfish Care book and talks about doing 100% water changes on the > > goldfish > > bowl once a week. Poor Goldfish!!!! > > > > Speaking of goldfish bowls, I even recently wrote A&E and M.C. Hammer > > about > > the goldfish bowl (and "Bubbles the Goldfish") that they feature on > > his new > > reality show "Hammertime". Speaking of "Hammertime", did anyone else get a > > kick out of the "Flash Mob" that A&E set up to promote "Hammertime"? Check > > out the faces on some of these customers when the "Flash Mob" starts to > > happen... > > > > LOL > > > > > <http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vfxCnZ4Dp3c>http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vfxCnZ4Dp3c > > > <http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vfxCnZ4Dp3c> (pt. 1) > > > <http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kSSt--quiM4>http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kSSt--quiM4 > > > <http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kSSt--quiM4> (pt. 2) > > > > I crack up laughing every time I watch these vids. I need to dig > > through my > > boxes in the attic to find my gold lame' Hammer-pants. LOL > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > Fish Blog - > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right > > side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > [mailto:<mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On > > Behalf Of Steve Szabo > > Sent: Sunday, July 12, 2009 10:12 AM > > To: > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Tank Maintenance > > > > As for water changes, I can remember in the early 60's trying to remember > > doing weekly water changes in my tank and being chided for forgetting > > (hey, > > I was a kid--there were a lot of important things to tend to, like bike > > riding in the warm weather, sliding in the cold, playing basketball and > > baseball, and generally trying to be out of the house more than I was in). > > In the later 60's the memory is a bit fuzzy. > > I seem to remember a lot of mud and rain and good music at some place > > in NY, > > Wells Street in Chicago, Rolling Stones, Cream, Vanilla Fudge, Frigid > > Pink, > > Pink Floyd, going to a prom in jeans and tails with flowers in my > > hair, and > > some other things best left unsaid in mixed company. > > > > Back then, no one knew of the nitrogen cycle. I do not think any real work > > on the topic was done until the 70's (is that correct Ray?) and it did > > take > > a while for the word to get out. > > > > The only times I recall breaking down tanks was to move them, or to > > completely re-do them with new fish and plants. The mythical beast > > back then > > was the "balanced aquarium" where a combination of fish, plants, and > > filtration would establish a "balance" that would maintain the fish and > > aquarium in good condition, and, perhaps, even allow for breeding. > > What, it seems, this really was that we had established a cycle in such a > > tank, though we did not know or understand it at the time. Tearing down a > > tank would disrupt this (as we obviously know today) and so was not done > > unless needed. A benign neglect was the watchword of the day. > > > > \\Steve// > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > [mailto:<mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] > > On Behalf Of Lenny V. aka GoldLenny > > Sent: Sunday, July 12, 2009 10:22 AM > > To: > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Tank Maintenance > > > > How long is a fortnight? Just kidding... I know it's 14 days but fortnight > > isn't used very often any longer up here. Is it still a common term down > > under? > > > > While many of us preach and practice doing PWC's, gravel vacuuming and > > filter maintenance at least once a week, if the bioload on a tank is > > small, > > then going two weeks could be OK. > > > > It really depends on the bioload of the tank and how long you think > > it's OK > > for the fish to be stuck in a tank full of fish poop and pee? In the "old > > days" (you know... like when Ray and Bill and \\Steve// started > > keeping fish > > <BG>), it was common to do tank maintenance once a month and many > > instructional type books had folks completely breaking down their > > tanks on a > > monthly basis or every few months. Of course, most folks back then didn't > > know how the nitrogen cycle worked in aquaria and how all of the rest > > of the > > tanks microbiological ecology affected the water quality and why it > > WAS NOT > > a good thing to completely break down the tank like that. > > > > Further, while fish pool comes out reasonably solid, after a short > > while in > > the tank, it starts to break down. Once it breaks down, it dilutes > > into the > > water column so at that point the fish are now swimming around in diluted > > diarrhea. I know... DISGUSTING... but it's true. By doing weekly gravel > > vacuums, you are getting most of the fish poop up while it's still > > solid and > > down on the bottom After a week, you are forcing the fish to swim > > around in > > their liquefied poo. This is why I preach and practice doing weekly (or > > more frequent) tank and filter maintenance. > > > > Do we all slip up sometimes... yep, absolutely, guilty-as-charged... > > but if > > we decide to start doing tank maintenance every two weeks and then we slip > > up, then it's three weeks or four weeks before tank maintenance gets > > done so > > the fish are forced to live and breath their own liquefied fish poo for an > > even longer period of time. > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > Fish Blog - <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> (Links to any articles referenced > > in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under > > Labels and > > also under Archives by Year, > > Month) > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > [mailto:<mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] > > On > > Behalf Of Lisa > > Sent: Sunday, July 12, 2009 5:43 AM > > To: > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > Subject: [AquaticLife] Tank Maintenance > > > > I was just wondering, is it absolutly neccecery to do s gravel vac as > > well > > as a pwc each week? or could i get away with just doing weekily pwc's > > and a > > GV every fortnight > > > > Thanks > > Lisa > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 41961	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 7/12/2009
Subject: Re: Tank Maintenance

My coworker did the same thing when he asked me how long goldfish should live, he said his lived a few years in his 10 gallon, I said he was lucky he got that long considering the space issues, told him that he needs much smaller fish. He actually asked what he should get, I'm happy to say. I suggested neon's a nice school in a 10 gallon would look pretty. Or I offered some of my baby platy's, LOL. They keep up their breeding and I'm gonna have to start giving them away ;) LOL Amber Steve Szabo wrote: > > > Her jaw would have gone through the floor if you told her the truth > instead of pulling your punches. Goldfish should live at least 25 years, > and there are dome on record that lived for more than 100 years, which > is probably longer than her expected, and I am guessing here, remaining > lifespan. > > \\Steve// > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] > On Behalf Of Menagerie_Manager > Sent: Sunday, July 12, 2009 2:38 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Tank Maintenance > > You just described my sis-in-luv. She was over the other day and > amazed at how large my goldies are. She asked me what their lifespan > was > supposed to be and, when I told her ten or so years, her jaw just about > hit > the floor. She's never been able to get one to live more than six > months. > Uhm, three goldfish in five gallons of water, with regular 100% water > changes (straight from the tap) and no testing what so ever, are doing > really well to survive six months. > > DebR and the Three Goldfish > (CB, Lucille, and Raven) > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Amber Berglund" <arberglund@... > <mailto:arberglund%40gmail.com>> > To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>> > Sent: Sunday, July 12, 2009 1:50 PM > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Tank Maintenance > > >I deliver to people who keep goldfish (the pond kind) in little > > "goldfish" bowls with plants on their desks, I feel just awful for > them :( > > But since they're a customer I don't want to step on any toes by > telling > > them they are wrong. > > > > Amber > > > > Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > >> > >> > >> I never had aquariums as a kid but my "best friend" had two of them > and I > >> remember him tearing down his tanks... seemingly once a month, "to > clean > >> them". I need to get in touch with him and see if he remembers where > he > >> "learned" to do this. > >> > >> I also have a couple of older crappy books about fish keeping.. from > the > >> 60's & 70's and they mention breaking down the tank on a regular > basis to > >> "clean it" good. These books are published by what are supposed to be > >> reputable sources of information like Hartz, etc. I don't have them > in > >> front of me right now to give you specifics but I know that crappy > info > >> is > >> in the books. I bought them at a garage sale, mainly to keep someone > else > >> from buying them and getting this crappy information. One of the > books > >> is a > >> Goldfish Care book and talks about doing 100% water changes on the > >> goldfish > >> bowl once a week. Poor Goldfish!!!! > >> > >> Speaking of goldfish bowls, I even recently wrote A&E and M.C. Hammer > >> about > >> the goldfish bowl (and "Bubbles the Goldfish") that they feature on > >> his new > >> reality show "Hammertime". Speaking of "Hammertime", did anyone else > get > >> a > >> kick out of the "Flash Mob" that A&E set up to promote "Hammertime"? > >> Check > >> out the faces on some of these customers when the "Flash Mob" starts > to > >> happen... > >> > >> LOL > >> > >> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vfxCnZ4Dp3c > <http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vfxCnZ4Dp3c> > >> <http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vfxCnZ4Dp3c > <http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vfxCnZ4Dp3c>> (pt. 1) > >> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kSSt--quiM4 > <http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kSSt--quiM4> > >> <http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kSSt--quiM4 > <http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kSSt--quiM4>> (pt. 2) > >> > >> I crack up laughing every time I watch these vids. I need to dig > >> through my > >> boxes in the attic to find my gold lame' Hammer-pants. LOL > >> > >> Lenny Vasbinder > >> Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>> > >> (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the > right > >> side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, > Month) > >> > >> -----Original Message----- > >> From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > >> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > >> [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > >> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On > >> Behalf Of Steve Szabo > >> Sent: Sunday, July 12, 2009 10:12 AM > >> To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > >> Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Tank Maintenance > >> > >> As for water changes, I can remember in the early 60's trying to > remember > >> doing weekly water changes in my tank and being chided for forgetting > >> (hey, > >> I was a kid--there were a lot of important things to tend to, like > bike > >> riding in the warm weather, sliding in the cold, playing basketball > and > >> baseball, and generally trying to be out of the house more than I was > > >> in). > >> In the later 60's the memory is a bit fuzzy. > >> I seem to remember a lot of mud and rain and good music at some place > >> in NY, > >> Wells Street in Chicago, Rolling Stones, Cream, Vanilla Fudge, Frigid > >> Pink, > >> Pink Floyd, going to a prom in jeans and tails with flowers in my > >> hair, and > >> some other things best left unsaid in mixed company. > >> > >> Back then, no one knew of the nitrogen cycle. I do not think any real > > >> work > >> on the topic was done until the 70's (is that correct Ray?) and it > did > >> take > >> a while for the word to get out. > >> > >> The only times I recall breaking down tanks was to move them, or to > >> completely re-do them with new fish and plants. The mythical beast > >> back then > >> was the "balanced aquarium" where a combination of fish, plants, and > >> filtration would establish a "balance" that would maintain the fish > and > >> aquarium in good condition, and, perhaps, even allow for breeding. > >> What, it seems, this really was that we had established a cycle in > such a > >> tank, though we did not know or understand it at the time. Tearing > down a > >> tank would disrupt this (as we obviously know today) and so was not > done > >> unless needed. A benign neglect was the watchword of the day. > >> > >> \\Steve// > >> > >> -----Original Message----- > >> From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > >> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > >> [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > >> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] > >> On Behalf Of Lenny V. aka GoldLenny > >> Sent: Sunday, July 12, 2009 10:22 AM > >> To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > >> Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Tank Maintenance > >> > >> How long is a fortnight? Just kidding... I know it's 14 days but > >> fortnight > >> isn't used very often any longer up here. Is it still a common term > down > >> under? > >> > >> While many of us preach and practice doing PWC's, gravel vacuuming > and > >> filter maintenance at least once a week, if the bioload on a tank is > >> small, > >> then going two weeks could be OK. > >> > >> It really depends on the bioload of the tank and how long you think > >> it's OK > >> for the fish to be stuck in a tank full of fish poop and pee? In the > "old > >> days" (you know... like when Ray and Bill and \\Steve// started > >> keeping fish > >> <BG>), it was common to do tank maintenance once a month and many > >> instructional type books had folks completely breaking down their > >> tanks on a > >> monthly basis or every few months. Of course, most folks back then > didn't > >> know how the nitrogen cycle worked in aquaria and how all of the rest > >> of the > >> tanks microbiological ecology affected the water quality and why it > >> WAS NOT > >> a good thing to completely break down the tank like that. > >> > >> Further, while fish pool comes out reasonably solid, after a short > >> while in > >> the tank, it starts to break down. Once it breaks down, it dilutes > >> into the > >> water column so at that point the fish are now swimming around in > diluted > >> diarrhea. I know... DISGUSTING... but it's true. By doing weekly > gravel > >> vacuums, you are getting most of the fish poop up while it's still > >> solid and > >> down on the bottom After a week, you are forcing the fish to swim > >> around in > >> their liquefied poo. This is why I preach and practice doing weekly > (or > >> more frequent) tank and filter maintenance. > >> > >> Do we all slip up sometimes... yep, absolutely, guilty-as-charged... > >> but if > >> we decide to start doing tank maintenance every two weeks and then we > > >> slip > >> up, then it's three weeks or four weeks before tank maintenance gets > >> done so > >> the fish are forced to live and breath their own liquefied fish poo > for > >> an > >> even longer period of time. > >> > >> Lenny Vasbinder > >> Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > >> <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>> > (Links to any articles referenced > >> in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under > >> Labels and > >> also under Archives by Year, > >> Month) > >> > >> -----Original Message----- > >> From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > >> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > >> [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > >> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] > >> On > >> Behalf Of Lisa > >> Sent: Sunday, July 12, 2009 5:43 AM > >> To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > >> Subject: [AquaticLife] Tank Maintenance > >> > >> I was just wondering, is it absolutly neccecery to do s gravel vac as > >> well > >> as a pwc each week? or could i get away with just doing weekily pwc's > >> and a > >> GV every fortnight > >> > >> Thanks > >> Lisa > >> > >> > > > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 41962	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 7/12/2009
Subject: Re: Tank Maintenance

They are long and slender (torpedo) shaped. Fancy goldfish are rounded and swim slower usually, not to mention they often have odd mishapen eyes and fins (I still don't understand why people would do that to a fish). Amber caroline wrote: > > > how do you know if they are the pond type? I > keep one in a 15 gal. tank.. I feel bad.. caroline > > >I deliver to people who keep goldfish (the pond kind) in little > >"goldfish" bowls with plants on their desks, I feel just awful for > them :( > >But since they're a customer I don't want to step on any toes by telling > >them they are wrong. > > > >Amber > > > >Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > > > > > > > > > I never had aquariums as a kid but my "best friend" had two of > them and I > > > remember him tearing down his tanks... seemingly once a month, "to > clean > > > them". I need to get in touch with him and see if he remembers > where he > > > "learned" to do this. > > > > > > I also have a couple of older crappy books about fish keeping.. > from the > > > 60's & 70's and they mention breaking down the tank on a regular > basis to > > > "clean it" good. These books are published by what are supposed to be > > > reputable sources of information like Hartz, etc. I don't have them in > > > front of me right now to give you specifics but I know that crappy > info is > > > in the books. I bought them at a garage sale, mainly to keep > someone else > > > from buying them and getting this crappy information. One of the books > > > is a > > > Goldfish Care book and talks about doing 100% water changes on the > > > goldfish > > > bowl once a week. Poor Goldfish!!!! > > > > > > Speaking of goldfish bowls, I even recently wrote A&E and M.C. Hammer > > > about > > > the goldfish bowl (and "Bubbles the Goldfish") that they feature on > > > his new > > > reality show "Hammertime". Speaking of "Hammertime", did anyone > else get a > > > kick out of the "Flash Mob" that A&E set up to promote > "Hammertime"? Check > > > out the faces on some of these customers when the "Flash Mob" > starts to > > > happen... > > > > > > LOL > > > > > > > > <http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vfxCnZ4Dp3c > <http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vfxCnZ4Dp3c>>http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vfxCnZ4Dp3c > <http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vfxCnZ4Dp3c> > > > > > <http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vfxCnZ4Dp3c > <http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vfxCnZ4Dp3c>> (pt. 1) > > > > > <http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kSSt--quiM4 > <http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kSSt--quiM4>>http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kSSt--quiM4 > <http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kSSt--quiM4> > > > > > <http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kSSt--quiM4 > <http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kSSt--quiM4>> (pt. 2) > > > > > > I crack up laughing every time I watch these vids. I need to dig > > > through my > > > boxes in the attic to find my gold lame' Hammer-pants. LOL > > > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > > Fish Blog - > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>>http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>> > > > (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the > right > > > side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, > Month) > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > From: > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > [mailto:<mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On > > > Behalf Of Steve Szabo > > > Sent: Sunday, July 12, 2009 10:12 AM > > > To: > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Tank Maintenance > > > > > > As for water changes, I can remember in the early 60's trying to > remember > > > doing weekly water changes in my tank and being chided for forgetting > > > (hey, > > > I was a kid--there were a lot of important things to tend to, like > bike > > > riding in the warm weather, sliding in the cold, playing > basketball and > > > baseball, and generally trying to be out of the house more than I > was in). > > > In the later 60's the memory is a bit fuzzy. > > > I seem to remember a lot of mud and rain and good music at some place > > > in NY, > > > Wells Street in Chicago, Rolling Stones, Cream, Vanilla Fudge, Frigid > > > Pink, > > > Pink Floyd, going to a prom in jeans and tails with flowers in my > > > hair, and > > > some other things best left unsaid in mixed company. > > > > > > Back then, no one knew of the nitrogen cycle. I do not think any > real work > > > on the topic was done until the 70's (is that correct Ray?) and it did > > > take > > > a while for the word to get out. > > > > > > The only times I recall breaking down tanks was to move them, or to > > > completely re-do them with new fish and plants. The mythical beast > > > back then > > > was the "balanced aquarium" where a combination of fish, plants, and > > > filtration would establish a "balance" that would maintain the > fish and > > > aquarium in good condition, and, perhaps, even allow for breeding. > > > What, it seems, this really was that we had established a cycle in > such a > > > tank, though we did not know or understand it at the time. Tearing > down a > > > tank would disrupt this (as we obviously know today) and so was > not done > > > unless needed. A benign neglect was the watchword of the day. > > > > > > \\Steve// > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > From: > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > [mailto:<mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] > > > On Behalf Of Lenny V. aka GoldLenny > > > Sent: Sunday, July 12, 2009 10:22 AM > > > To: > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Tank Maintenance > > > > > > How long is a fortnight? Just kidding... I know it's 14 days but > fortnight > > > isn't used very often any longer up here. Is it still a common > term down > > > under? > > > > > > While many of us preach and practice doing PWC's, gravel vacuuming and > > > filter maintenance at least once a week, if the bioload on a tank is > > > small, > > > then going two weeks could be OK. > > > > > > It really depends on the bioload of the tank and how long you think > > > it's OK > > > for the fish to be stuck in a tank full of fish poop and pee? In > the "old > > > days" (you know... like when Ray and Bill and \\Steve// started > > > keeping fish > > > <BG>), it was common to do tank maintenance once a month and many > > > instructional type books had folks completely breaking down their > > > tanks on a > > > monthly basis or every few months. Of course, most folks back then > didn't > > > know how the nitrogen cycle worked in aquaria and how all of the rest > > > of the > > > tanks microbiological ecology affected the water quality and why it > > > WAS NOT > > > a good thing to completely break down the tank like that. > > > > > > Further, while fish pool comes out reasonably solid, after a short > > > while in > > > the tank, it starts to break down. Once it breaks down, it dilutes > > > into the > > > water column so at that point the fish are now swimming around in > diluted > > > diarrhea. I know... DISGUSTING... but it's true. By doing weekly > gravel > > > vacuums, you are getting most of the fish poop up while it's still > > > solid and > > > down on the bottom After a week, you are forcing the fish to swim > > > around in > > > their liquefied poo. This is why I preach and practice doing > weekly (or > > > more frequent) tank and filter maintenance. > > > > > > Do we all slip up sometimes... yep, absolutely, guilty-as-charged... > > > but if > > > we decide to start doing tank maintenance every two weeks and then > we slip > > > up, then it's three weeks or four weeks before tank maintenance gets > > > done so > > > the fish are forced to live and breath their own liquefied fish > poo for an > > > even longer period of time. > > > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > > Fish Blog - <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>>http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>> > (Links to any articles referenced > > > in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under > > > Labels and > > > also under Archives by Year, > > > Month) > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > From: > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > [mailto:<mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] > > > On > > > Behalf Of Lisa > > > Sent: Sunday, July 12, 2009 5:43 AM > > > To: > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > Subject: [AquaticLife] Tank Maintenance > > > > > > I was just wondering, is it absolutly neccecery to do s gravel vac as > > > well > > > as a pwc each week? or could i get away with just doing weekily pwc's > > > and a > > > GV every fortnight > > > > > > Thanks > > > Lisa > > > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 41963	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 7/12/2009
Subject: Re: Tank Maintenance

If the body is elongated rather than roundish, it may be considered as a pond type goldfish. Your guy really needs about twice the water volume you are giving him, and if it the elongated body type, you really should give him about 48" of swim room back and forth. This tank length requirement really means you need a tank larger than 30 gallons, but if you get a 55 or 60 gallon tank, you could get him a buddy. \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of caroline Sent: Sunday, July 12, 2009 2:49 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Tank Maintenance how do you know if they are the pond type? I keep one in a 15 gal. tank.. I feel bad.. caroline >I deliver to people who keep goldfish (the pond kind) in little >"goldfish" bowls with plants on their desks, I feel just awful for them :( >But since they're a customer I don't want to step on any toes by telling >them they are wrong. > >Amber > >Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > > > > > > I never had aquariums as a kid but my "best friend" had two of them and I > > remember him tearing down his tanks... seemingly once a month, "to clean > > them". I need to get in touch with him and see if he remembers where he > > "learned" to do this. > > > > I also have a couple of older crappy books about fish keeping.. from the > > 60's & 70's and they mention breaking down the tank on a regular basis to > > "clean it" good. These books are published by what are supposed to be > > reputable sources of information like Hartz, etc. I don't have them in > > front of me right now to give you specifics but I know that crappy info is > > in the books. I bought them at a garage sale, mainly to keep someone else > > from buying them and getting this crappy information. One of the books > > is a > > Goldfish Care book and talks about doing 100% water changes on the > > goldfish > > bowl once a week. Poor Goldfish!!!! > > > > Speaking of goldfish bowls, I even recently wrote A&E and M.C. Hammer > > about > > the goldfish bowl (and "Bubbles the Goldfish") that they feature on > > his new > > reality show "Hammertime". Speaking of "Hammertime", did anyone else get a > > kick out of the "Flash Mob" that A&E set up to promote "Hammertime"? Check > > out the faces on some of these customers when the "Flash Mob" starts to > > happen... > > > > LOL > > > > > <http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vfxCnZ4Dp3c>http://www.youtube.com/watch ?v=vfxCnZ4Dp3c > > > <http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vfxCnZ4Dp3c> (pt. 1) > > > <http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kSSt--quiM4>http://www.youtube.com/watch ?v=kSSt--quiM4 > > > <http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kSSt--quiM4> (pt. 2) > > > > I crack up laughing every time I watch these vids. I need to dig > > through my > > boxes in the attic to find my gold lame' Hammer-pants. LOL > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > Fish Blog - > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right > > side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > [mailto:<mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>AquaticLife@... m > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On > > Behalf Of Steve Szabo > > Sent: Sunday, July 12, 2009 10:12 AM > > To: > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Tank Maintenance > > > > As for water changes, I can remember in the early 60's trying to remember > > doing weekly water changes in my tank and being chided for forgetting > > (hey, > > I was a kid--there were a lot of important things to tend to, like bike > > riding in the warm weather, sliding in the cold, playing basketball and > > baseball, and generally trying to be out of the house more than I was in). > > In the later 60's the memory is a bit fuzzy. > > I seem to remember a lot of mud and rain and good music at some place > > in NY, > > Wells Street in Chicago, Rolling Stones, Cream, Vanilla Fudge, Frigid > > Pink, > > Pink Floyd, going to a prom in jeans and tails with flowers in my > > hair, and > > some other things best left unsaid in mixed company. > > > > Back then, no one knew of the nitrogen cycle. I do not think any real work > > on the topic was done until the 70's (is that correct Ray?) and it did > > take > > a while for the word to get out. > > > > The only times I recall breaking down tanks was to move them, or to > > completely re-do them with new fish and plants. The mythical beast > > back then > > was the "balanced aquarium" where a combination of fish, plants, and > > filtration would establish a "balance" that would maintain the fish and > > aquarium in good condition, and, perhaps, even allow for breeding. > > What, it seems, this really was that we had established a cycle in such a > > tank, though we did not know or understand it at the time. Tearing down a > > tank would disrupt this (as we obviously know today) and so was not done > > unless needed. A benign neglect was the watchword of the day. > > > > \\Steve// > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > [mailto:<mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>AquaticLife@... m > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] > > On Behalf Of Lenny V. aka GoldLenny > > Sent: Sunday, July 12, 2009 10:22 AM > > To: > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Tank Maintenance > > > > How long is a fortnight? Just kidding... I know it's 14 days but fortnight > > isn't used very often any longer up here. Is it still a common term down > > under? > > > > While many of us preach and practice doing PWC's, gravel vacuuming and > > filter maintenance at least once a week, if the bioload on a tank is > > small, > > then going two weeks could be OK. > > > > It really depends on the bioload of the tank and how long you think > > it's OK > > for the fish to be stuck in a tank full of fish poop and pee? In the "old > > days" (you know... like when Ray and Bill and \\Steve// started > > keeping fish > > <BG>), it was common to do tank maintenance once a month and many > > instructional type books had folks completely breaking down their > > tanks on a > > monthly basis or every few months. Of course, most folks back then didn't > > know how the nitrogen cycle worked in aquaria and how all of the rest > > of the > > tanks microbiological ecology affected the water quality and why it > > WAS NOT > > a good thing to completely break down the tank like that. > > > > Further, while fish pool comes out reasonably solid, after a short > > while in > > the tank, it starts to break down. Once it breaks down, it dilutes > > into the > > water column so at that point the fish are now swimming around in diluted > > diarrhea. I know... DISGUSTING... but it's true. By doing weekly gravel > > vacuums, you are getting most of the fish poop up while it's still > > solid and > > down on the bottom After a week, you are forcing the fish to swim > > around in > > their liquefied poo. This is why I preach and practice doing weekly (or > > more frequent) tank and filter maintenance. > > > > Do we all slip up sometimes... yep, absolutely, guilty-as-charged... > > but if > > we decide to start doing tank maintenance every two weeks and then we slip > > up, then it's three weeks or four weeks before tank maintenance gets > > done so > > the fish are forced to live and breath their own liquefied fish poo for an > > even longer period of time. > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > Fish Blog - <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> (Links to any articles referenced > > in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under > > Labels and > > also under Archives by Year, > > Month) > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > [mailto:<mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>AquaticLife@... m > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] > > On > > Behalf Of Lisa > > Sent: Sunday, July 12, 2009 5:43 AM > > To: > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > Subject: [AquaticLife] Tank Maintenance > > > > I was just wondering, is it absolutly neccecery to do s gravel vac as > > well > > as a pwc each week? or could i get away with just doing weekily pwc's > > and a > > GV every fortnight > > > > Thanks > > Lisa > > > > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 41964	From: Harl Myers	Date: 7/12/2009
Subject: Re: Snails again

The CD and DVD's that you make at home have an unpredictable life span. A usb hard drive is a good option. That way you have a copy on your real hard drive and one on the usb hard drive. And if you are worried about fire or storm one can put a portable hard drive in a safety deposit box... Just a thought... On Thu, Jul 9, 2009 at 1:37 AM, Amber Berglund<arberglund@...> wrote: > > > Oh I forgot to read below the first paragraph btw, LOL. I'm tired. > Anyways, my Hubby is Norwegian not Irish, did you guess so because of > the red hair? > And all of the originals of my photo's are on my computer, but I want to > put them onto DVD disks to save space, that's on a todo list, y'know how > those t'do lists can take awhile to get done ;) LOL. > And I'm getting snails from Pam too, you'll have to see if she has any > good gold ones, LOL. > I was going to get purple/blue types though, the ones I have have nice > blue stripes too, if you look in some of the photos, I think I uploaded > one with a good shot of the blue stripes. > > Amber > > Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: >> >> >> OMG... Amber started her own photo album on Flickr!!! And 136 uploads >> already. Didn't you also upload a pic to your album in the group's photo >> section? Yep, you did! So... why did you call yourself Spamber on Flickr? >> And is your hubby Irish? >> >> All you need is some Gold Mystery Snails now and teach them to grow purple >> and gold spiraled shells and we could sell thousands down here... called >> "Fightin' Tiger Snails"... to all of our rabid LSU Tiger fans. The >> baseball >> team just won the national championship last month... I think for the 7th >> time and the football team has been national champs a few times and SEC >> champs MANY times. OK.. enough on bragging about our Fightin' Tigers!!! >> GEAUX TIGERS!!!! (That's pronounced GO, not ge-a-ux. It's a Cajun/Coonass >> thing! LOL >> >> Remember, while online photo albums are fine, ALWAYS have a backup. Over >> the years, many free and paid for online photo albums have been lost when >> the company went belly-up or just decided to do away with the service. >> Yahoo use to have Yahoo Photos and bought out Flickr and sent folks emails >> telling them to migrate their photos over to their new Flickr album >> but some >> folks never got the message and lost all of their photos. This also >> happens >> with other services. Yahoo has been doing away with LOTS of services. >> GeoCities is the next BIG one to go. I had dozens of web pages on >> GeoCities >> from back in the 90's that will all be gone soon.. if they aren't gone >> already. I have saved copies onto my computer but haven't decided if I >> will >> put them back up on the net again since they were from my old business. >> >> The good news is that many web pages that are lost from their original >> hosting service can still be found on the Internet Wayback Machine which >> archives copies of nearly ever web page created if it stays up on the net >> for a certain period of time. They do not archive online photo albums but >> they do archive the photos that are on web pages themselves. >> >> Lenny Vasbinder >> Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> >> (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right >> side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com >> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> >> [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com >> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On >> Behalf Of Amber Berglund >> Sent: Wednesday, July 08, 2009 11:44 PM >> To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> >> Subject: [AquaticLife] Snails again >> >> Okay so I uploaded a photo of the happy little guys munching away, I will >> add more later of course (I took more just have to look through and see >> which ones turned out). >> They are in my groups folder (Amber Berglund) Obviously the top file, when >> they are approved, if you are impatient and want to see them sooner I have >> flickr pics being currently uploaded ;) LOL. >> http://www.flickr.com/photos/spamber/3703524712/ >> <http://www.flickr.com/photos/spamber/3703524712/> >> >> Amber >> >> > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 41965	From: pam andress	Date: 7/12/2009
Subject: Re: Tank Maintenance(Platties)

Amber, Do you have any plume tail platties? I can put some of those in the box tomorrow if you want. lol Pam [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 41966	From: Raymond Wetzel	Date: 7/12/2009
Subject: Re: Tank Maintenance

\\Steve//, I believe you're 100% right -- there was no work done on the nitrogen cycle until the 1970's as far as I know. Just as you're saying though, we knew enough (for whatever reason) to do weekly PWC's by the '60's. I'm inclined to believe this may have been due because we realized ammonia could build up, even if we didn't yet know about the cycle -- and I think we may have learned about growth-inhibiting hormones building up. During my formative years in the tropical fish hobby from the early 1950's on, and into the '60's, I never read a thing on the nitrogen cycle -- and I made sure to buy a copy of Dr. Innes' "The Aquarium" magazine each and every month. This was a subject that nobody knew about -- or if it was known about in public aquariums perhaps (and that remains unknown), the topic was never discussed in the hobby and it seems as though even those publishers and their authors of the hobby magazines at the time knew nothing about it; and some of those magazines (such as "Aquarium Journal") had leading ichthyologists of the day writing in their publications -- who are still well respected until this day as leaders in this field. Before having tropical fish, I was given goldfish in an 8 gallon homemade metal-framed tank back in the late 1940's. At the time, I was instructed by my parents to "clean" them every month by removing the fish, plants and snails to a small bowl, removing all the water in the tank and thoroughly washing the gravel. Then, the tank was set up again with "spankin' clean" gravel and all new water into which the fish were placed back into -- good for another month. This was the same maintenance procedure that my mother used 20 years before that when my grandmother had goldfish during the 1920's as that was the normal, recognized way of taking care of goldfish (and no dechlorinator was ever used). Now, as at least we all knew back then, tropical fish were not as hardy as goldfish and needed different care, but too, by then it was "realized" even back during the 1930's that there was nothing better for your tropical fish than "old water," which was prized. Just as you're saying, once we set up a tank it was never disturbed -- and our goal was to create a "balanced aquarium." This concept was even taught in biology books of that day, in high school, and certainly in the hobby magazines and books. We didn't do regular weekly PWC's as that would mean we'd be throwing out good aged water -- but we did have dip tubes to use for cleaning the gravel, which just entailed getting the mulm (fish waste, etc.) off of the gravel's surface, removing dead leaves off the bottom, etc. A certain amount of this mulm was also prized as it meant for good plant fertilizer. The plants grew and the fish remained healthy. We were careful not to overfeed, and to not allow excess food falling to the substrate as we knew the consequences of foul gravel building up over time. Considering this consequence, a "gravel cleaning" was done about every six months, by using a planting stick to stir up the top layer of the gravel after which about a 25% PWC was done to remove as much gunk as was practical, but this water change was not done with keeping regular maintenance in mind but only as a means of getting rid of this debris. Depending on the fish we kept, and the hardness of our tap water, some of us cut our tap water with rain or snow water as was written about in the "latest" literature of the time. Topping off with tap water was done between these time, to replace evaporation -- full hoods were never especially promoted. As you said though, tanks were never completely broken down, unless a new set up was planned. We did use filters, which obviously must have given us our nitrogen cycles even though we never knew it, but power filters were not invented yet until 1955 -- and even then -- no one could afford them until the prices on them started to come down several years later (I didn't have power filters until at least 1960). So, until then, ALL filters were air driven. Oddly enough, such tanks flourished after being set up like this for years. We never heard of a "pH crash" either (and NEVER lost fish as a result of the possibility). When first setting up a new tank and even for some time afterwards, we NEVER had "new-tank-syndrome." As for stocking the tanks, we NEVER knew to wait 6 weeks -- we ALWAYS stocked the tanks within a day or two (if not, the same day) of first setting it up -- and we NEVER lost a fish due to ammonia or nitrite poisoning as a result of a tank not be cycled. Never even had a fish get sick as a result of excess nitrate, surprisingly enough. I guess the fish never knew about the nitrogen cycle either, so there was no reason to even be cautious of it. They (the fish) must have read the same books and magazines as we did, which was why we never knew to be concerned about the cycle, luckily. As they say -- "What you don't know, won't hurt you." We didn't know about the cycle, and it never hurt us, nor ever killed a fish; it was if the nitrogen cycle never existed back then as far as being something needed to keep fish. Certainly we never bothered with it, not having known about it. We did always use a dechlorinator though. Getting back to "fortnight," Lenny are you sure you didn't just do another Google on Wikipedia for that (LOL)? Ray --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Steve Szabo" <steve@...> wrote: > > As for water changes, I can remember in the early 60's trying to > remember doing weekly water changes in my tank and being chided for > forgetting (hey, I was a kid--there were a lot of important things to > tend to, like bike riding in the warm weather, sliding in the cold, > playing basketball and baseball, and generally trying to be out of the > house more than I was in). In the later 60's the memory is a bit fuzzy. > I seem to remember a lot of mud and rain and good music at some place in > NY, Wells Street in Chicago, Rolling Stones, Cream, Vanilla Fudge, > Frigid Pink, Pink Floyd, going to a prom in jeans and tails with flowers > in my hair, and some other things best left unsaid in mixed company. > > Back then, no one knew of the nitrogen cycle. I do not think any real > work on the topic was done until the 70's (is that correct Ray?) and it > did take a while for the word to get out. > > The only times I recall breaking down tanks was to move them, or to > completely re-do them with new fish and plants. The mythical beast back > then was the "balanced aquarium" where a combination of fish, plants, > and filtration would establish a "balance" that would maintain the fish > and aquarium in good condition, and, perhaps, even allow for breeding. > What, it seems, this really was that we had established a cycle in such > a tank, though we did not know or understand it at the time. Tearing > down a tank would disrupt this (as we obviously know today) and so was > not done unless needed. A benign neglect was the watchword of the day. > > \\Steve// > > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] > On Behalf Of Lenny V. aka GoldLenny > Sent: Sunday, July 12, 2009 10:22 AM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Tank Maintenance > > How long is a fortnight? Just kidding... I know it's 14 days but > fortnight > isn't used very often any longer up here. Is it still a common term > down > under? > > While many of us preach and practice doing PWC's, gravel vacuuming and > filter maintenance at least once a week, if the bioload on a tank is > small, > then going two weeks could be OK. > > It really depends on the bioload of the tank and how long you think it's > OK > for the fish to be stuck in a tank full of fish poop and pee? In the > "old > days" (you know... like when Ray and Bill and \\Steve// started keeping > fish > <BG>), it was common to do tank maintenance once a month and many > instructional type books had folks completely breaking down their tanks > on a > monthly basis or every few months. Of course, most folks back then > didn't > know how the nitrogen cycle worked in aquaria and how all of the rest of > the > tanks microbiological ecology affected the water quality and why it WAS > NOT > a good thing to completely break down the tank like that. > > Further, while fish pool comes out reasonably solid, after a short while > in > the tank, it starts to break down. Once it breaks down, it dilutes into > the > water column so at that point the fish are now swimming around in > diluted > diarrhea. I know... DISGUSTING... but it's true. By doing weekly > gravel > vacuums, you are getting most of the fish poop up while it's still solid > and > down on the bottom After a week, you are forcing the fish to swim > around in > their liquefied poo. This is why I preach and practice doing weekly (or > more frequent) tank and filter maintenance. > > Do we all slip up sometimes... yep, absolutely, guilty-as-charged... but > if > we decide to start doing tank maintenance every two weeks and then we > slip > up, then it's three weeks or four weeks before tank maintenance gets > done so > the fish are forced to live and breath their own liquefied fish poo for > an > even longer period of time. > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right > side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, > Month) > > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] > On > Behalf Of Lisa > Sent: Sunday, July 12, 2009 5:43 AM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Subject: [AquaticLife] Tank Maintenance > > I was just wondering, is it absolutly neccecery to do s gravel vac as > well > as a pwc each week? or could i get away with just doing weekily pwc's > and a > GV every fortnight > > Thanks > Lisa >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 41967	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 7/12/2009
Subject: Re: Snails again

All hard drives will fail, some sooner than later. CD or DVD media, when properly stored will last for 10-100 years, depending on who is talking. Best plan would be CD or DVD refreshed every so many years. \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Harl Myers Sent: Sunday, July 12, 2009 4:06 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Snails again The CD and DVD's that you make at home have an unpredictable life span. A usb hard drive is a good option. That way you have a copy on your real hard drive and one on the usb hard drive. And if you are worried about fire or storm one can put a portable hard drive in a safety deposit box... Just a thought... On Thu, Jul 9, 2009 at 1:37 AM, Amber Berglund<arberglund@...> wrote: > > > Oh I forgot to read below the first paragraph btw, LOL. I'm tired. > Anyways, my Hubby is Norwegian not Irish, did you guess so because of > the red hair? > And all of the originals of my photo's are on my computer, but I want to > put them onto DVD disks to save space, that's on a todo list, y'know how > those t'do lists can take awhile to get done ;) LOL. > And I'm getting snails from Pam too, you'll have to see if she has any > good gold ones, LOL. > I was going to get purple/blue types though, the ones I have have nice > blue stripes too, if you look in some of the photos, I think I uploaded > one with a good shot of the blue stripes. > > Amber > > Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: >> >> >> OMG... Amber started her own photo album on Flickr!!! And 136 uploads >> already. Didn't you also upload a pic to your album in the group's photo >> section? Yep, you did! So... why did you call yourself Spamber on Flickr? >> And is your hubby Irish? >> >> All you need is some Gold Mystery Snails now and teach them to grow purple >> and gold spiraled shells and we could sell thousands down here... called >> "Fightin' Tiger Snails"... to all of our rabid LSU Tiger fans. The >> baseball >> team just won the national championship last month... I think for the 7th >> time and the football team has been national champs a few times and SEC >> champs MANY times. OK.. enough on bragging about our Fightin' Tigers!!! >> GEAUX TIGERS!!!! (That's pronounced GO, not ge-a-ux. It's a Cajun/Coonass >> thing! LOL >> >> Remember, while online photo albums are fine, ALWAYS have a backup. Over >> the years, many free and paid for online photo albums have been lost when >> the company went belly-up or just decided to do away with the service. >> Yahoo use to have Yahoo Photos and bought out Flickr and sent folks emails >> telling them to migrate their photos over to their new Flickr album >> but some >> folks never got the message and lost all of their photos. This also >> happens >> with other services. Yahoo has been doing away with LOTS of services. >> GeoCities is the next BIG one to go. I had dozens of web pages on >> GeoCities >> from back in the 90's that will all be gone soon.. if they aren't gone >> already. I have saved copies onto my computer but haven't decided if I >> will >> put them back up on the net again since they were from my old business. >> >> The good news is that many web pages that are lost from their original >> hosting service can still be found on the Internet Wayback Machine which >> archives copies of nearly ever web page created if it stays up on the net >> for a certain period of time. They do not archive online photo albums but >> they do archive the photos that are on web pages themselves. >> >> Lenny Vasbinder >> Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> >> (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right >> side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com >> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> >> [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com >> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On >> Behalf Of Amber Berglund >> Sent: Wednesday, July 08, 2009 11:44 PM >> To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> >> Subject: [AquaticLife] Snails again >> >> Okay so I uploaded a photo of the happy little guys munching away, I will >> add more later of course (I took more just have to look through and see >> which ones turned out). >> They are in my groups folder (Amber Berglund) Obviously the top file, when >> they are approved, if you are impatient and want to see them sooner I have >> flickr pics being currently uploaded ;) LOL. >> http://www.flickr.com/photos/spamber/3703524712/ >> <http://www.flickr.com/photos/spamber/3703524712/> >> >> Amber >> >> > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 41968	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 7/12/2009
Subject: Re: Tank Maintenance(Platties)

Uhh no... do other fish eat those? LOL I take it they are over running your tank? I'll take some if you want to get rid of 'em, LOL. I have mostly orange, some with black tails, one "dalmation" platy (female white with black spots), and one that's got a silverish body and a red tail, as I said mostly orange because ALL the baby's are orange, LOL. Amber pam andress wrote: > > > > > Amber, > > Do you have any plume tail platties? I can put some of those in the > box tomorrow if you want. lol > > Pam > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 41969	From: Lisa Lawless	Date: 7/12/2009
Subject: Re; tank maintenance

:) So short answer, is keep up with the weekly pwc's  AND gravel vacs? lol I do do weekly pwc's regardless. Thought id just ask :)   Lol Thanks Lenny   ____________________________________________________________________________________ Access Yahoo!7 Mail on your mobile. Anytime. Anywhere. Show me how: http://au.mobile.yahoo.com/mail [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 41970	From: pam andress	Date: 7/12/2009
Subject: Re: Tank Maintenance(Platties)

I'll have to go look. I'm not sure what colors I have at this time and no my fish do not eat them, but there is nothing in that tank that could. I also have endlers in there. Pam To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com From: arberglund@... Date: Sun, 12 Jul 2009 13:24:22 -0800 Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Tank Maintenance(Platties) Uhh no... do other fish eat those? LOL I take it they are over running your tank? I'll take some if you want to get rid of 'em, LOL. I have mostly orange, some with black tails, one "dalmation" platy (female white with black spots), and one that's got a silverish body and a red tail, as I said mostly orange because ALL the baby's are orange, LOL. Amber pam andress wrote: > > > > > Amber, > > Do you have any plume tail platties? I can put some of those in the > box tomorrow if you want. lol > > Pam > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 41971	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 7/12/2009
Subject: Re: Tank Maintenance(Platties)

I like endler's but I wouldn't want them to breed with my guppy's that I already have in all of my tanks. Amber pam andress wrote: > > > > I'll have to go look. I'm not sure what colors I have at this time and > no my fish do not eat them, but there is nothing in that tank that > could. I also have endlers in there. > > Pam > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > From: arberglund@... <mailto:arberglund%40gmail.com> > Date: Sun, 12 Jul 2009 13:24:22 -0800 > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Tank Maintenance(Platties) > > Uhh no... do other fish eat those? LOL > I take it they are over running your tank? > I'll take some if you want to get rid of 'em, LOL. > I have mostly orange, some with black tails, one "dalmation" platy > (female white with black spots), and one that's got a silverish body and > a red tail, as I said mostly orange because ALL the baby's are orange, > LOL. > > Amber > > pam andress wrote: > > > > > > > > > > Amber, > > > > Do you have any plume tail platties? I can put some of those in the > > box tomorrow if you want. lol > > > > Pam > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 41972	From: bill 1433	Date: 7/12/2009
Subject: Re: Tank Maintenance

Hey Ray!  Same as a previous return today at \\Steve//!!!!! Thanks for the memories! This was how I started, or should I say my Mom did.. She started in the hobby with the neighbor next door and it just a while I was into it myself. As I can recall though, there was work being done in the hobby for the nitrogen cycle, only it was not the Freshwater Team doing it. As I recall, any mention of it in the magazines fell to our brothers on the Saltwater Team. Although much has, and is still be written about Biological and the Nitrogen cycles and their affects on aquariums, I truly believe that is was from this group that many of the idea's that we seem to hold so dear today came from. ol' bill   --- On Sun, 7/12/09, Raymond Wetzel <sevenspringss@...> wrote: > From: Raymond Wetzel <sevenspringss@...> > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Tank Maintenance > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Date: Sunday, July 12, 2009, 4:44 PM > \\Steve//,  I believe you're > 100% right -- there was no work done on the nitrogen cycle > until the 1970's as far as I know.  Just as you're > saying though, we knew enough (for whatever reason) to do > weekly PWC's by the '60's.  I'm inclined to believe > this may have been due because we realized ammonia could > build up, even if we didn't yet know about the cycle -- and > I think we may have learned about growth-inhibiting hormones > building up.  > > During my formative years in the tropical fish hobby from > the early 1950's on, and into the '60's, I never read a > thing on the nitrogen cycle -- and I made sure to buy a copy > of Dr. Innes' "The Aquarium" magazine each and every > month.  This was a subject that nobody knew about -- or > if it was known about in public aquariums perhaps (and that > remains unknown), the topic was never discussed in the hobby > and it seems as though even those publishers and their > authors of the hobby magazines at the time knew nothing > about it; and some of those magazines (such as "Aquarium > Journal") had leading ichthyologists of the day writing in > their publications -- who are still well respected until > this day as leaders in this field. > > Before having tropical fish, I was given goldfish in an 8 > gallon homemade metal-framed tank back in the late > 1940's.  At the time, I was instructed by my parents to > "clean" them every month by removing the fish, plants and > snails to a small bowl, removing all the water in the tank > and thoroughly washing the gravel.  Then, the tank was > set up again with "spankin' clean" gravel and all new water > into which the fish were placed back into -- good for > another month.  This was the same maintenance procedure > that my mother used 20 years before that when my grandmother > had goldfish during the 1920's as that was the normal, > recognized way of taking care of goldfish (and no > dechlorinator was ever used). > > Now, as at least we all knew back then, tropical fish were > not as hardy as goldfish and needed different care, but too, > by then it was "realized" even back during the 1930's that > there was nothing better for your tropical fish than "old > water," which was prized. Just as you're saying, once we set > up a tank it was never disturbed -- and our goal was to > create a "balanced aquarium."  This concept was even > taught in biology books of that day, in high school, and > certainly in the hobby magazines and books.  We didn't > do regular weekly PWC's as that would mean we'd be throwing > out good aged water -- but we did have dip tubes to use for > cleaning the gravel, which just entailed getting the mulm > (fish waste, etc.) off of the gravel's surface, removing > dead leaves off the bottom, etc.  A certain amount of > this mulm was also prized as it meant for good plant > fertilizer.  The plants grew and the fish remained > healthy.  We were careful not to overfeed, and to not > allow excess food falling to the substrate as we knew the > consequences of foul gravel building up over time.  > > Considering this consequence, a "gravel cleaning" was done > about every six months, by using a planting stick to stir up > the top layer of the gravel after which about a 25% PWC was > done to remove as much gunk as was practical, but this water > change was not done with keeping regular maintenance in mind > but only as a means of getting rid of this debris.  > Depending on the fish we kept, and the hardness of our tap > water, some of us cut our tap water with rain or snow water > as was written about in the "latest" literature of the > time.  Topping off with tap water was done between > these time, to replace evaporation -- full hoods were never > especially promoted.  As you said though, tanks were > never completely broken down, unless a new set up was > planned.  We did use filters, which obviously must have > given us our nitrogen cycles even though we never knew it, > but power filters were not invented yet until 1955 -- and > even then -- no one could afford them until the prices on > them started to come down several years later (I didn't have > power filters until at least 1960).  So, until then, > ALL filters were air driven.  Oddly enough, such tanks > flourished after being set up like this for years.  We > never heard of a "pH crash" either (and NEVER lost fish as a > result of the possibility). > > When first setting up a new tank and even for some time > afterwards, we NEVER had "new-tank-syndrome."  As for > stocking the tanks, we NEVER knew to wait 6 weeks -- we > ALWAYS stocked the tanks within a day or two (if not, the > same day) of first setting it up -- and we NEVER lost a fish > due to ammonia or nitrite poisoning as a result of a tank > not be cycled.  Never even had a fish get sick as a > result of excess nitrate, surprisingly enough.  I guess > the fish never knew about the nitrogen cycle either, so > there was no reason to even be cautious of it.  They > (the fish) must have read the same books and magazines as we > did, which was why we never knew to be concerned about the > cycle, luckily.  As they say -- "What you don't know, > won't hurt you."  We didn't know about the cycle, and > it never hurt us, nor ever killed a fish; it was if the > nitrogen cycle never existed back then as far as being > something needed to keep fish.  Certainly we never > bothered with it, not having known about it.  We did > always use a dechlorinator though. > > Getting back to "fortnight," Lenny are you sure you didn't > just do another Google on Wikipedia for that (LOL)?  > Ray > > > >   --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, > "Steve Szabo" <steve@...> wrote: > > > > As for water changes, I can remember in the early 60's > trying to > > remember doing weekly water changes in my tank and > being chided for > > forgetting (hey, I was a kid--there were a lot of > important things to > > tend to, like bike riding in the warm weather, sliding > in the cold, > > playing basketball and baseball, and generally trying > to be out of the > > house more than I was in). In the later 60's the > memory is a bit fuzzy. > > I seem to remember a lot of mud and rain and good > music at some place in > > NY, Wells Street in Chicago, Rolling Stones, Cream, > Vanilla Fudge, > > Frigid Pink, Pink Floyd, going to a prom in jeans and > tails with flowers > > in my hair, and some other things best left unsaid in > mixed company. > > > > Back then, no one knew of the nitrogen cycle. I do not > think any real > > work on the topic was done until the 70's (is that > correct Ray?) and it > > did take a while for the word to get out. > > > > The only times I recall breaking down tanks was to > move them, or to > > completely re-do them with new fish and plants. The > mythical beast back > > then was the "balanced aquarium" where a combination > of fish, plants, > > and filtration would establish a "balance" that would > maintain the fish > > and aquarium in good condition, and, perhaps, even > allow for breeding. > > What, it seems, this really was that we had > established a cycle in such > > a tank, though we did not know or understand it at the > time. Tearing > > down a tank would disrupt this (as we obviously know > today) and so was > > not done unless needed. A benign neglect was the > watchword of the day. > > > > \\Steve// > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] > > On Behalf Of Lenny V. aka GoldLenny > > Sent: Sunday, July 12, 2009 10:22 AM > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Tank Maintenance > > > > How long is a fortnight?  Just kidding... I know > it's 14 days but > > fortnight > > isn't used very often any longer up here.  Is it > still a common term > > down > > under? > > > > While many of us preach and practice doing PWC's, > gravel vacuuming and > > filter maintenance at least once a week, if the > bioload on a tank is > > small, > > then going two weeks could be OK. > > > > It really depends on the bioload of the tank and how > long you think it's > > OK > > for the fish to be stuck in a tank full of fish poop > and pee?  In the > > "old > > days" (you know... like when Ray and Bill and > \\Steve// started keeping > > fish > > <BG>), it was common to do tank maintenance once > a month and many > > instructional type books had folks completely breaking > down their tanks > > on a > > monthly basis or every few months.  Of course, > most folks back then > > didn't > > know how the nitrogen cycle worked in aquaria and how > all of the rest of > > the > > tanks microbiological ecology affected the water > quality and why it WAS > > NOT > > a good thing to completely break down the tank like > that.  > > > > Further, while fish pool comes out reasonably solid, > after a short while > > in > > the tank, it starts to break down.  Once it > breaks down, it dilutes into > > the > > water column so at that point the fish are now > swimming around in > > diluted > > diarrhea.  I know... DISGUSTING... but it's > true.  By doing weekly > > gravel > > vacuums, you are getting most of the fish poop up > while it's still solid > > and > > down on the bottom  After a week, you are forcing > the fish to swim > > around in > > their liquefied poo.  This is why I preach and > practice doing weekly (or > > more frequent) tank and filter maintenance. > > > > Do we all slip up sometimes... yep, absolutely, > guilty-as-charged... but > > if > > we decide to start doing tank maintenance every two > weeks and then we > > slip > > up, then it's three weeks or four weeks before tank > maintenance gets > > done so > > the fish are forced to live and breath their own > liquefied fish poo for > > an > > even longer period of time.  > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > > (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are > listed on the right > > side, alphabetically under Labels and also under > Archives by Year, > > Month) > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] > > On > > Behalf Of Lisa > > Sent: Sunday, July 12, 2009 5:43 AM > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > Subject: [AquaticLife] Tank Maintenance > > > > I was just wondering, is it absolutly neccecery to do > s gravel vac as > > well > > as a pwc each week? or could i get away with just > doing weekily pwc's > > and a > > GV every fortnight > > > > Thanks > > Lisa > > > > > > > ------------------------------------ > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when > replying, Thank You. > ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> > ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> > PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is > NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of > the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new > subject (was re: old subject)" <- > <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. > , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. > > If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of > unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by > clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the home page.  > > Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com > to receive the digest, which includes up to 25 posts at a > time in a single email > > Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com > for the No E-Mail option where you will still be able to > read messages on the group and post replies. > > Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com > to receive individual e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links > > >     mailto:AquaticLife-fullfeatured@yahoogroups.com > > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 41973	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 7/12/2009
Subject: Re: Tank Maintenance

Looking through literature cited in Spotte's _Fish and Invertebrate Culture, Second Edition_ (1979), it appears that while the different nitrogenous compounds were known since at least the '50's, no real serious work toward discovering how they fit together seems to appear until the mid-60's. in the scientific literature. Without examining the sources, this would lead me to believe that the nitrogen cycle was not truly found and studied until then. Once science had it, it would then slowly filter down to the hobbyist level, so, probably, if you were looking in hobbyist literature, you probably would not find any mention of it prior to the early '70's. Once it had appeared, it would take some time to really start to be understood and used by hobbyists, however, for the number of questions we have here, it is evident that more work needs to be done to disseminate the information so that even the noob's are made aware of it, if not through reading, then via the local shops where they buy their equipment and fish. Probably a pipe dream though. Ray, maybe you and I should move further discussion of this over to AHHS. Some of those guys should know the history of this in the hobby. \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of bill 1433 Sent: Sunday, July 12, 2009 7:55 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: Tank Maintenance Hey Ray!  Same as a previous return today at \\Steve//!!!!! Thanks for the memories! This was how I started, or should I say my Mom did.. She started in the hobby with the neighbor next door and it just a while I was into it myself. As I can recall though, there was work being done in the hobby for the nitrogen cycle, only it was not the Freshwater Team doing it. As I recall, any mention of it in the magazines fell to our brothers on the Saltwater Team. Although much has, and is still be written about Biological and the Nitrogen cycles and their affects on aquariums, I truly believe that is was from this group that many of the idea's that we seem to hold so dear today came from. ol' bill   --- On Sun, 7/12/09, Raymond Wetzel <sevenspringss@...> wrote: > From: Raymond Wetzel <sevenspringss@...> > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Tank Maintenance > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Date: Sunday, July 12, 2009, 4:44 PM > \\Steve//,  I believe you're > 100% right -- there was no work done on the nitrogen cycle > until the 1970's as far as I know.  Just as you're > saying though, we knew enough (for whatever reason) to do > weekly PWC's by the '60's.  I'm inclined to believe > this may have been due because we realized ammonia could > build up, even if we didn't yet know about the cycle -- and > I think we may have learned about growth-inhibiting hormones > building up.  > > During my formative years in the tropical fish hobby from > the early 1950's on, and into the '60's, I never read a > thing on the nitrogen cycle -- and I made sure to buy a copy > of Dr. Innes' "The Aquarium" magazine each and every > month.  This was a subject that nobody knew about -- or > if it was known about in public aquariums perhaps (and that > remains unknown), the topic was never discussed in the hobby > and it seems as though even those publishers and their > authors of the hobby magazines at the time knew nothing > about it; and some of those magazines (such as "Aquarium > Journal") had leading ichthyologists of the day writing in > their publications -- who are still well respected until > this day as leaders in this field. > > Before having tropical fish, I was given goldfish in an 8 > gallon homemade metal-framed tank back in the late > 1940's.  At the time, I was instructed by my parents to > "clean" them every month by removing the fish, plants and > snails to a small bowl, removing all the water in the tank > and thoroughly washing the gravel.  Then, the tank was > set up again with "spankin' clean" gravel and all new water > into which the fish were placed back into -- good for > another month.  This was the same maintenance procedure > that my mother used 20 years before that when my grandmother > had goldfish during the 1920's as that was the normal, > recognized way of taking care of goldfish (and no > dechlorinator was ever used). > > Now, as at least we all knew back then, tropical fish were > not as hardy as goldfish and needed different care, but too, > by then it was "realized" even back during the 1930's that > there was nothing better for your tropical fish than "old > water," which was prized. Just as you're saying, once we set > up a tank it was never disturbed -- and our goal was to > create a "balanced aquarium."  This concept was even > taught in biology books of that day, in high school, and > certainly in the hobby magazines and books.  We didn't > do regular weekly PWC's as that would mean we'd be throwing > out good aged water -- but we did have dip tubes to use for > cleaning the gravel, which just entailed getting the mulm > (fish waste, etc.) off of the gravel's surface, removing > dead leaves off the bottom, etc.  A certain amount of > this mulm was also prized as it meant for good plant > fertilizer.  The plants grew and the fish remained > healthy.  We were careful not to overfeed, and to not > allow excess food falling to the substrate as we knew the > consequences of foul gravel building up over time.  > > Considering this consequence, a "gravel cleaning" was done > about every six months, by using a planting stick to stir up > the top layer of the gravel after which about a 25% PWC was > done to remove as much gunk as was practical, but this water > change was not done with keeping regular maintenance in mind > but only as a means of getting rid of this debris.  > Depending on the fish we kept, and the hardness of our tap > water, some of us cut our tap water with rain or snow water > as was written about in the "latest" literature of the > time.  Topping off with tap water was done between > these time, to replace evaporation -- full hoods were never > especially promoted.  As you said though, tanks were > never completely broken down, unless a new set up was > planned.  We did use filters, which obviously must have > given us our nitrogen cycles even though we never knew it, > but power filters were not invented yet until 1955 -- and > even then -- no one could afford them until the prices on > them started to come down several years later (I didn't have > power filters until at least 1960).  So, until then, > ALL filters were air driven.  Oddly enough, such tanks > flourished after being set up like this for years.  We > never heard of a "pH crash" either (and NEVER lost fish as a > result of the possibility). > > When first setting up a new tank and even for some time > afterwards, we NEVER had "new-tank-syndrome."  As for > stocking the tanks, we NEVER knew to wait 6 weeks -- we > ALWAYS stocked the tanks within a day or two (if not, the > same day) of first setting it up -- and we NEVER lost a fish > due to ammonia or nitrite poisoning as a result of a tank > not be cycled.  Never even had a fish get sick as a > result of excess nitrate, surprisingly enough.  I guess > the fish never knew about the nitrogen cycle either, so > there was no reason to even be cautious of it.  They > (the fish) must have read the same books and magazines as we > did, which was why we never knew to be concerned about the > cycle, luckily.  As they say -- "What you don't know, > won't hurt you."  We didn't know about the cycle, and > it never hurt us, nor ever killed a fish; it was if the > nitrogen cycle never existed back then as far as being > something needed to keep fish.  Certainly we never > bothered with it, not having known about it.  We did > always use a dechlorinator though. > > Getting back to "fortnight," Lenny are you sure you didn't > just do another Google on Wikipedia for that (LOL)?  > Ray > > > >   --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, > "Steve Szabo" <steve@...> wrote: > > > > As for water changes, I can remember in the early 60's > trying to > > remember doing weekly water changes in my tank and > being chided for > > forgetting (hey, I was a kid--there were a lot of > important things to > > tend to, like bike riding in the warm weather, sliding > in the cold, > > playing basketball and baseball, and generally trying > to be out of the > > house more than I was in). In the later 60's the > memory is a bit fuzzy. > > I seem to remember a lot of mud and rain and good > music at some place in > > NY, Wells Street in Chicago, Rolling Stones, Cream, > Vanilla Fudge, > > Frigid Pink, Pink Floyd, going to a prom in jeans and > tails with flowers > > in my hair, and some other things best left unsaid in > mixed company. > > > > Back then, no one knew of the nitrogen cycle. I do not > think any real > > work on the topic was done until the 70's (is that > correct Ray?) and it > > did take a while for the word to get out. > > > > The only times I recall breaking down tanks was to > move them, or to > > completely re-do them with new fish and plants. The > mythical beast back > > then was the "balanced aquarium" where a combination > of fish, plants, > > and filtration would establish a "balance" that would > maintain the fish > > and aquarium in good condition, and, perhaps, even > allow for breeding. > > What, it seems, this really was that we had > established a cycle in such > > a tank, though we did not know or understand it at the > time. Tearing > > down a tank would disrupt this (as we obviously know > today) and so was > > not done unless needed. A benign neglect was the > watchword of the day. > > > > \\Steve// > > > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 41974	From: harry perry	Date: 7/12/2009
Subject: Interest in Aquascaping

This link should show a chart depicting a plant and what it would look like with various element deficiencies. I find it very useful. http://tinyurl.com/n5ow3q Harry [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 41975	From: harry perry	Date: 7/12/2009
Subject: Re: Interest in Aquascaping/The chart

Use the link in the first post and then click on planted aquarium basics. Harry --- On Sun, 7/12/09, harry perry <harryfisherman@...> wrote: From: harry perry <harryfisherman@...> Subject: Interest in Aquascaping To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Date: Sunday, July 12, 2009, 9:53 PM This link should show a chart depicting a plant and what it would look like with various element deficiencies. I find it very useful. http://tinyurl.com/n5ow3q Harry [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 41976	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 7/12/2009
Subject: train Crash Distracts Aquarium Visitors

http://www.chron.com/disp/story.mpl/hotstories/6525557.html http://tinyurl.com/nyla9h \\Steve//

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 41977	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 7/12/2009
Subject: Re: Aquarium Trash Bags

TWELVE FOR $16.00??? They must be on crack! And they are only 14 gallon trash bags for a buck-twenty-five each. Yep, they're definitely on crack! I pay 15-20 cents a bag for BIG CONTRACTOR trash bags. Maybe I can start selling them as "Blackwater Biotope" trash bags. ;-) Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Amber Berglund Sent: Sunday, July 12, 2009 12:51 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Aquarium Trash Bags LOL, those are great... now if only they had them in "stretch flex" ;) Amber Steve Szabo wrote: > > > So you say you have gone off the deep end and need more fingers than > you have to count your tanks? Well, if you have the disease, how come > I don't see your trash being put out in these trash bags. Let's the > whole world know what a basket case you really are: > http://www.trendhunter.com/trends/taking-out-the-rubbish-with-style > <http://www.trendhunter.com/trends/taking-out-the-rubbish-with-style> > > http://tinyurl.com/n7z377 <http://tinyurl.com/n7z377> > > \\Steve// > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 41978	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 7/12/2009
Subject: Re: Tank Maintenance

Print out my Goldfish Care Sheet from my blog and leave copies laying around... or tape copies to their packages. LOL Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Amber Berglund Sent: Sunday, July 12, 2009 12:50 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Tank Maintenance I deliver to people who keep goldfish (the pond kind) in little "goldfish" bowls with plants on their desks, I feel just awful for them :( But since they're a customer I don't want to step on any toes by telling them they are wrong. Amber Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > > > I never had aquariums as a kid but my "best friend" had two of them > and I remember him tearing down his tanks... seemingly once a month, > "to clean them". I need to get in touch with him and see if he > remembers where he "learned" to do this. > > I also have a couple of older crappy books about fish keeping.. from > the 60's & 70's and they mention breaking down the tank on a regular > basis to "clean it" good. These books are published by what are > supposed to be reputable sources of information like Hartz, etc. I > don't have them in front of me right now to give you specifics but I > know that crappy info is in the books. I bought them at a garage sale, > mainly to keep someone else from buying them and getting this crappy > information. One of the books is a Goldfish Care book and talks about > doing 100% water changes on the goldfish bowl once a week. Poor > Goldfish!!!! > > Speaking of goldfish bowls, I even recently wrote A&E and M.C. Hammer > about the goldfish bowl (and "Bubbles the Goldfish") that they feature > on his new reality show "Hammertime". Speaking of "Hammertime", did > anyone else get a kick out of the "Flash Mob" that A&E set up to > promote "Hammertime"? Check out the faces on some of these customers > when the "Flash Mob" starts to happen... > > LOL > > http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vfxCnZ4Dp3c > <http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vfxCnZ4Dp3c> (pt. 1) > http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kSSt--quiM4 > <http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kSSt--quiM4> (pt. 2) > > I crack up laughing every time I watch these vids. I need to dig > through my boxes in the attic to find my gold lame' Hammer-pants. LOL > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> (Links to any articles referenced in > above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels > and also under Archives by Year, Month) > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On Behalf Of Steve Szabo > Sent: Sunday, July 12, 2009 10:12 AM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Tank Maintenance > > As for water changes, I can remember in the early 60's trying to > remember doing weekly water changes in my tank and being chided for > forgetting (hey, I was a kid--there were a lot of important things to > tend to, like bike riding in the warm weather, sliding in the cold, > playing basketball and baseball, and generally trying to be out of the > house more than I was in). > In the later 60's the memory is a bit fuzzy. > I seem to remember a lot of mud and rain and good music at some place > in NY, Wells Street in Chicago, Rolling Stones, Cream, Vanilla Fudge, > Frigid Pink, Pink Floyd, going to a prom in jeans and tails with > flowers in my hair, and some other things best left unsaid in mixed > company. > > Back then, no one knew of the nitrogen cycle. I do not think any real > work on the topic was done until the 70's (is that correct Ray?) and > it did take a while for the word to get out. > > The only times I recall breaking down tanks was to move them, or to > completely re-do them with new fish and plants. The mythical beast > back then was the "balanced aquarium" where a combination of fish, > plants, and filtration would establish a "balance" that would maintain > the fish and aquarium in good condition, and, perhaps, even allow for > breeding. > What, it seems, this really was that we had established a cycle in > such a tank, though we did not know or understand it at the time. > Tearing down a tank would disrupt this (as we obviously know today) > and so was not done unless needed. A benign neglect was the watchword of the day. > > \\Steve// > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] > On Behalf Of Lenny V. aka GoldLenny > Sent: Sunday, July 12, 2009 10:22 AM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Tank Maintenance > > How long is a fortnight? Just kidding... I know it's 14 days but > fortnight isn't used very often any longer up here. Is it still a > common term down under? > > While many of us preach and practice doing PWC's, gravel vacuuming and > filter maintenance at least once a week, if the bioload on a tank is > small, then going two weeks could be OK. > > It really depends on the bioload of the tank and how long you think > it's OK for the fish to be stuck in a tank full of fish poop and pee? > In the "old days" (you know... like when Ray and Bill and \\Steve// > started keeping fish <BG>), it was common to do tank maintenance once > a month and many instructional type books had folks completely > breaking down their tanks on a monthly basis or every few months. Of > course, most folks back then didn't know how the nitrogen cycle worked > in aquaria and how all of the rest of the tanks microbiological > ecology affected the water quality and why it WAS NOT a good thing to > completely break down the tank like that. > > Further, while fish pool comes out reasonably solid, after a short > while in the tank, it starts to break down. Once it breaks down, it > dilutes into the water column so at that point the fish are now > swimming around in diluted diarrhea. I know... DISGUSTING... but it's > true. By doing weekly gravel vacuums, you are getting most of the fish > poop up while it's still solid and down on the bottom After a week, > you are forcing the fish to swim around in their liquefied poo. This > is why I preach and practice doing weekly (or more frequent) tank and > filter maintenance. > > Do we all slip up sometimes... yep, absolutely, guilty-as-charged... > but if > we decide to start doing tank maintenance every two weeks and then we > slip up, then it's three weeks or four weeks before tank maintenance > gets done so the fish are forced to live and breath their own > liquefied fish poo for an even longer period of time. > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> (Links to any articles referenced in > above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels > and also under Archives by Year, > Month) > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] > On > Behalf Of Lisa > Sent: Sunday, July 12, 2009 5:43 AM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Subject: [AquaticLife] Tank Maintenance > > I was just wondering, is it absolutly neccecery to do s gravel vac as > well as a pwc each week? or could i get away with just doing weekily > pwc's and a GV every fortnight > > Thanks > Lisa

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 41979	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 7/12/2009
Subject: Re: Tank Maintenance

Long-bodied goldfish should really be kept in a pond or a REALLY BIG Tank... at least 75G for each long-bodied goldfish. Fancy (round-bodied) goldfish can get by with less water per goldfish.. around 25 to 30G per round-bodied goldfish. If you have a goldfish in a 15G tank, you can do 25%-33% PWC's (5G each PWC) on a daily basis and that will at least simulate the total water volume being nearly triple the 15G's actual volume... closer to the 45G range.. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of caroline Sent: Sunday, July 12, 2009 1:49 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Tank Maintenance how do you know if they are the pond type? I keep one in a 15 gal. tank.. I feel bad.. caroline >I deliver to people who keep goldfish (the pond kind) in little >"goldfish" bowls with plants on their desks, I feel just awful for them >:( But since they're a customer I don't want to step on any toes by >telling them they are wrong. > >Amber > >Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > > > > > > I never had aquariums as a kid but my "best friend" had two of them > > and I remember him tearing down his tanks... seemingly once a month, > > "to clean them". I need to get in touch with him and see if he > > remembers where he "learned" to do this. > > > > I also have a couple of older crappy books about fish keeping.. from > > the 60's & 70's and they mention breaking down the tank on a regular > > basis to "clean it" good. These books are published by what are > > supposed to be reputable sources of information like Hartz, etc. I > > don't have them in front of me right now to give you specifics but I > > know that crappy info is in the books. I bought them at a garage > > sale, mainly to keep someone else from buying them and getting this > > crappy information. One of the books is a Goldfish Care book and > > talks about doing 100% water changes on the goldfish bowl once a > > week. Poor Goldfish!!!! > > > > Speaking of goldfish bowls, I even recently wrote A&E and M.C. > > Hammer about the goldfish bowl (and "Bubbles the Goldfish") that > > they feature on his new reality show "Hammertime". Speaking of > > "Hammertime", did anyone else get a kick out of the "Flash Mob" that > > A&E set up to promote "Hammertime"? Check out the faces on some of > > these customers when the "Flash Mob" starts to happen... > > > > LOL > > > > > <http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vfxCnZ4Dp3c>http://www.youtube.com/wat > ch?v=vfxCnZ4Dp3c > > > <http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vfxCnZ4Dp3c> (pt. 1) > > > <http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kSSt--quiM4>http://www.youtube.com/wat > ch?v=kSSt--quiM4 > > > <http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kSSt--quiM4> (pt. 2) > > > > I crack up laughing every time I watch these vids. I need to dig > > through my boxes in the attic to find my gold lame' Hammer-pants. > > LOL > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > Fish Blog - > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the > > right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by > > Year, Month) > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > [mailto:<mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>AquaticLife@yahoogroup > > s.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On Behalf Of Steve > > Szabo > > Sent: Sunday, July 12, 2009 10:12 AM > > To: > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Tank Maintenance > > > > As for water changes, I can remember in the early 60's trying to > > remember doing weekly water changes in my tank and being chided for > > forgetting (hey, I was a kid--there were a lot of important things > > to tend to, like bike riding in the warm weather, sliding in the > > cold, playing basketball and baseball, and generally trying to be > > out of the house more than I was in). > > In the later 60's the memory is a bit fuzzy. > > I seem to remember a lot of mud and rain and good music at some > > place in NY, Wells Street in Chicago, Rolling Stones, Cream, Vanilla > > Fudge, Frigid Pink, Pink Floyd, going to a prom in jeans and tails > > with flowers in my hair, and some other things best left unsaid in > > mixed company. > > > > Back then, no one knew of the nitrogen cycle. I do not think any > > real work on the topic was done until the 70's (is that correct > > Ray?) and it did take a while for the word to get out. > > > > The only times I recall breaking down tanks was to move them, or to > > completely re-do them with new fish and plants. The mythical beast > > back then was the "balanced aquarium" where a combination of fish, > > plants, and filtration would establish a "balance" that would > > maintain the fish and aquarium in good condition, and, perhaps, even > > allow for breeding. > > What, it seems, this really was that we had established a cycle in > > such a tank, though we did not know or understand it at the time. > > Tearing down a tank would disrupt this (as we obviously know today) > > and so was not done unless needed. A benign neglect was the watchword of the day. > > > > \\Steve// > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > [mailto:<mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>AquaticLife@yahoogroup > > s.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] > > On Behalf Of Lenny V. aka GoldLenny > > Sent: Sunday, July 12, 2009 10:22 AM > > To: > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Tank Maintenance > > > > How long is a fortnight? Just kidding... I know it's 14 days but > > fortnight isn't used very often any longer up here. Is it still a > > common term down under? > > > > While many of us preach and practice doing PWC's, gravel vacuuming > > and filter maintenance at least once a week, if the bioload on a > > tank is small, then going two weeks could be OK. > > > > It really depends on the bioload of the tank and how long you think > > it's OK for the fish to be stuck in a tank full of fish poop and > > pee? In the "old days" (you know... like when Ray and Bill and > > \\Steve// started keeping fish <BG>), it was common to do tank > > maintenance once a month and many instructional type books had folks > > completely breaking down their tanks on a monthly basis or every few > > months. Of course, most folks back then didn't know how the nitrogen > > cycle worked in aquaria and how all of the rest of the tanks > > microbiological ecology affected the water quality and why it WAS > > NOT a good thing to completely break down the tank like that. > > > > Further, while fish pool comes out reasonably solid, after a short > > while in the tank, it starts to break down. Once it breaks down, it > > dilutes into the water column so at that point the fish are now > > swimming around in diluted diarrhea. I know... DISGUSTING... but > > it's true. By doing weekly gravel vacuums, you are getting most of > > the fish poop up while it's still solid and down on the bottom After > > a week, you are forcing the fish to swim around in their liquefied > > poo. This is why I preach and practice doing weekly (or more > > frequent) tank and filter maintenance. > > > > Do we all slip up sometimes... yep, absolutely, guilty-as-charged... > > but if > > we decide to start doing tank maintenance every two weeks and then > > we slip up, then it's three weeks or four weeks before tank > > maintenance gets done so the fish are forced to live and breath > > their own liquefied fish poo for an even longer period of time. > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > Fish Blog - > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> (Links to any articles referenced in > > above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under > > Labels and also under Archives by Year, > > Month) > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > [mailto:<mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>AquaticLife@yahoogroup > > s.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] > > On > > Behalf Of Lisa > > Sent: Sunday, July 12, 2009 5:43 AM > > To: > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > Subject: [AquaticLife] Tank Maintenance > > > > I was just wondering, is it absolutly neccecery to do s gravel vac > > as well as a pwc each week? or could i get away with just doing > > weekily pwc's and a GV every fortnight > > > > Thanks > > Lisa

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 41980	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 7/12/2009
Subject: Re: catfish

What kind of albino catfish? There are albino variants of (probably) every species of catfish. Without knowing the species, it's hard to say whether your two are the kind that stay small or if they are supposed to grow to 6 feet long... or longer. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Shirley Reichard Sent: Sunday, July 12, 2009 12:55 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] re: catfish I have two albino cats in a 20-gal long (with platys). I've had them for about six months and they're doing fine. Shirley --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Lisa" <lisa_lawless2004@...> wrote: > > I quite love catfish. > Is there any species i can have in my 22 gal as a sole occupent, or as a pair? > > Thanks > Lisa >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 41981	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 7/12/2009
Subject: Re: Guppy (naja) grass

I have Guppy Grass in my Cherry Shrimp tank. It does send some stringer type roots down to the gravel but I just leave it floating and manually push it to one end of the tank. I'm not sure that it would like fast moving water. I have thought about taking one of my pieces of driftwood in my Goldfish Tank and wrapping some of the Guppy Grass around the driftwood, maybe loosely tying it in place with some fishing line, to see how it does in faster moving water. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Amber Berglund Sent: Sunday, July 12, 2009 1:45 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Guppy (naja) grass Okay I'm just not sure what to do with this bunch of guppy grass, do I plant it, do I float it? When I float it it just goops into one big mass and attaches itself to one of my taller plants :( Can I glue it to drift wood? LOL Amber

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 41982	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 7/12/2009
Subject: Re: Tank Maintenance(Platties)

Pam, You should have made an intentional typo and called them "Plumtail" instead of "Plumetail". You know Amber would have fallen for "Plumtail"... thinking they had purple tails. LOL Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of pam andress Sent: Sunday, July 12, 2009 3:10 PM To: aquaticlife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Tank Maintenance(Platties) Amber, Do you have any plume tail platties? I can put some of those in the box tomorrow if you want. lol Pam

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 41983	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 7/12/2009
Subject: Re: Tank Maintenance

"Getting back to "fortnight," Lenny are you sure you didn't just do another Google on Wikipedia for that (LOL)? Ray" Nope... I knew what "fortnight" was and "four score and seven years" too. Of course, when my brother and I would turn our beds into "forts", that could be called "fortnight" too. ;-) Of course, whoever stuck their head out from under the sheet lost the "Turtle Game". And I'm not pulling your finger... ooops.. I meant leg, with that one either! ;-) Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Raymond Wetzel Sent: Sunday, July 12, 2009 3:44 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Tank Maintenance \\Steve//, I believe you're 100% right -- there was no work done on the nitrogen cycle until the 1970's as far as I know. Just as you're saying though, we knew enough (for whatever reason) to do weekly PWC's by the '60's. I'm inclined to believe this may have been due because we realized ammonia could build up, even if we didn't yet know about the cycle -- and I think we may have learned about growth-inhibiting hormones building up. During my formative years in the tropical fish hobby from the early 1950's on, and into the '60's, I never read a thing on the nitrogen cycle -- and I made sure to buy a copy of Dr. Innes' "The Aquarium" magazine each and every month. This was a subject that nobody knew about -- or if it was known about in public aquariums perhaps (and that remains unknown), the topic was never discussed in the hobby and it seems as though even those publishers and their authors of the hobby magazines at the time knew nothing about it; and some of those magazines (such as "Aquarium Journal") had leading ichthyologists of the day writing in their publications -- who are still well respected until this day as leaders in this field. Before having tropical fish, I was given goldfish in an 8 gallon homemade metal-framed tank back in the late 1940's. At the time, I was instructed by my parents to "clean" them every month by removing the fish, plants and snails to a small bowl, removing all the water in the tank and thoroughly washing the gravel. Then, the tank was set up again with "spankin' clean" gravel and all new water into which the fish were placed back into -- good for another month. This was the same maintenance procedure that my mother used 20 years before that when my grandmother had goldfish during the 1920's as that was the normal, recognized way of taking care of goldfish (and no dechlorinator was ever used). Now, as at least we all knew back then, tropical fish were not as hardy as goldfish and needed different care, but too, by then it was "realized" even back during the 1930's that there was nothing better for your tropical fish than "old water," which was prized. Just as you're saying, once we set up a tank it was never disturbed -- and our goal was to create a "balanced aquarium." This concept was even taught in biology books of that day, in high school, and certainly in the hobby magazines and books. We didn't do regular weekly PWC's as that would mean we'd be throwing out good aged water -- but we did have dip tubes to use for cleaning the gravel, which just entailed getting the mulm (fish waste, etc.) off of the gravel's surface, removing dead leaves off the bottom, etc. A certain amount of this mulm was also prized as it meant for good plant fertilizer. The plants grew and the fish remained healthy. We were careful not to overfeed, and to not allow excess food falling to the substrate as we knew the consequences of foul gravel building up over time. Considering this consequence, a "gravel cleaning" was done about every six months, by using a planting stick to stir up the top layer of the gravel after which about a 25% PWC was done to remove as much gunk as was practical, but this water change was not done with keeping regular maintenance in mind but only as a means of getting rid of this debris. Depending on the fish we kept, and the hardness of our tap water, some of us cut our tap water with rain or snow water as was written about in the "latest" literature of the time. Topping off with tap water was done between these time, to replace evaporation -- full hoods were never especially promoted. As you said though, tanks were never completely broken down, unless a new set up was planned. We did use filters, which obviously must have given us our nitrogen cycles even though we never knew it, but power filters were not invented yet until 1955 -- and even then -- no one could afford them until the prices on them started to come down several years later (I didn't have power filters until at least 1960). So, until then, ALL filters were air driven. Oddly enough, such tanks flourished after being set up like this for years. We never heard of a "pH crash" either (and NEVER lost fish as a result of the possibility). When first setting up a new tank and even for some time afterwards, we NEVER had "new-tank-syndrome." As for stocking the tanks, we NEVER knew to wait 6 weeks -- we ALWAYS stocked the tanks within a day or two (if not, the same day) of first setting it up -- and we NEVER lost a fish due to ammonia or nitrite poisoning as a result of a tank not be cycled. Never even had a fish get sick as a result of excess nitrate, surprisingly enough. I guess the fish never knew about the nitrogen cycle either, so there was no reason to even be cautious of it. They (the fish) must have read the same books and magazines as we did, which was why we never knew to be concerned about the cycle, luckily. As they say -- "What you don't know, won't hurt you." We didn't know about the cycle, and it never hurt us, nor ever killed a fish; it was if the nitrogen cycle never existed back then as far as being something needed to keep fish. Certainly we never bothered with it, not having known about it. We did always use a dechlorinator though. Getting back to "fortnight," Lenny are you sure you didn't just do another Google on Wikipedia for that (LOL)? Ray --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Steve Szabo" <steve@...> wrote: > > As for water changes, I can remember in the early 60's trying to > remember doing weekly water changes in my tank and being chided for > forgetting (hey, I was a kid--there were a lot of important things to > tend to, like bike riding in the warm weather, sliding in the cold, > playing basketball and baseball, and generally trying to be out of the > house more than I was in). In the later 60's the memory is a bit fuzzy. > I seem to remember a lot of mud and rain and good music at some place > in NY, Wells Street in Chicago, Rolling Stones, Cream, Vanilla Fudge, > Frigid Pink, Pink Floyd, going to a prom in jeans and tails with > flowers in my hair, and some other things best left unsaid in mixed company. > > Back then, no one knew of the nitrogen cycle. I do not think any real > work on the topic was done until the 70's (is that correct Ray?) and > it did take a while for the word to get out. > > The only times I recall breaking down tanks was to move them, or to > completely re-do them with new fish and plants. The mythical beast > back then was the "balanced aquarium" where a combination of fish, > plants, and filtration would establish a "balance" that would maintain > the fish and aquarium in good condition, and, perhaps, even allow for breeding. > What, it seems, this really was that we had established a cycle in > such a tank, though we did not know or understand it at the time. > Tearing down a tank would disrupt this (as we obviously know today) > and so was not done unless needed. A benign neglect was the watchword of the day. > > \\Steve// > > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] > On Behalf Of Lenny V. aka GoldLenny > Sent: Sunday, July 12, 2009 10:22 AM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Tank Maintenance > > How long is a fortnight? Just kidding... I know it's 14 days but > fortnight isn't used very often any longer up here. Is it still a > common term down under? > > While many of us preach and practice doing PWC's, gravel vacuuming and > filter maintenance at least once a week, if the bioload on a tank is > small, then going two weeks could be OK. > > It really depends on the bioload of the tank and how long you think > it's OK for the fish to be stuck in a tank full of fish poop and pee? > In the "old days" (you know... like when Ray and Bill and \\Steve// > started keeping fish <BG>), it was common to do tank maintenance once > a month and many instructional type books had folks completely > breaking down their tanks on a monthly basis or every few months. Of > course, most folks back then didn't know how the nitrogen cycle worked > in aquaria and how all of the rest of the tanks microbiological > ecology affected the water quality and why it WAS NOT a good thing to > completely break down the tank like that. > > Further, while fish pool comes out reasonably solid, after a short > while in the tank, it starts to break down. Once it breaks down, it > dilutes into the water column so at that point the fish are now > swimming around in diluted diarrhea. I know... DISGUSTING... but it's > true. By doing weekly gravel vacuums, you are getting most of the > fish poop up while it's still solid and down on the bottom After a > week, you are forcing the fish to swim around in their liquefied poo. > This is why I preach and practice doing weekly (or more frequent) tank > and filter maintenance. > > Do we all slip up sometimes... yep, absolutely, guilty-as-charged... > but if we decide to start doing tank maintenance every two weeks and > then we slip up, then it's three weeks or four weeks before tank > maintenance gets done so the fish are forced to live and breath their > own liquefied fish poo for an even longer period of time. > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles > referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically > under Labels and also under Archives by Year, > Month) > > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] > On > Behalf Of Lisa > Sent: Sunday, July 12, 2009 5:43 AM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Subject: [AquaticLife] Tank Maintenance > > I was just wondering, is it absolutly neccecery to do s gravel vac as > well as a pwc each week? or could i get away with just doing weekily > pwc's and a GV every fortnight > > Thanks > Lisa

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 41984	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 7/12/2009
Subject: Re: Re; tank maintenance

Yep. Is that a short enough answer? LOL Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Lisa Lawless Sent: Sunday, July 12, 2009 5:21 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Re; tank maintenance :) So short answer, is keep up with the weekly pwc's  AND gravel vacs? lol I do do weekly pwc's regardless. Thought id just ask :)   Lol Thanks Lenny   ____________________________________________________________________________ ________ Access Yahoo!7 Mail on your mobile. Anytime. Anywhere. Show me how: http://au.mobile.yahoo.com/mail [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] ------------------------------------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the home page. Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com to receive the digest, which includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com for the No E-Mail option where you will still be able to read messages on the group and post replies. Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com to receive individual e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 41985	From: pam andress	Date: 7/12/2009
Subject: Re: Tank Maintenance(Platties)

Thats a good one Lenny. LOL I never think of those things. Pam To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com From: GoldLenny@... Date: Sun, 12 Jul 2009 23:23:22 -0500 Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Tank Maintenance(Platties) Pam, You should have made an intentional typo and called them "Plumtail" instead of "Plumetail". You know Amber would have fallen for "Plumtail"... thinking they had purple tails. LOL Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of pam andress Sent: Sunday, July 12, 2009 3:10 PM To: aquaticlife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Tank Maintenance(Platties) Amber, Do you have any plume tail platties? I can put some of those in the box tomorrow if you want. lol Pam [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 41986	From: Lisa	Date: 7/13/2009
Subject: Question about feeding green veggies

Just wanted to ask, can i put a portion of brocholi in for them? i tried them on a split green bean, and they liked that. But yeah. Um. Quick response would be really helpful. Thanks

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 41987	From: Raymond Wetzel	Date: 7/13/2009
Subject: Re: Tank Maintenance

Yes, I believe you're right about the cycle being explored first in the marine fish side of the hobby. No doubt, in part, as a direct result of necessity with an increased interest at the time and with more hobbyists getting into that facet -- and losing fish for what appeared to be no "apparent" reason. When I say . . . "at the time," I'm referring to the 1970's as this seems to be when marine aquariums started to take off, even though some hobbyists had salt water before this time. Prior to this, there was never a hobby magazine devoted to only that phase of the hobby. There were occasional articles here and there in the freshwater magazines, and there was an entire issue devoted to one in the late 1950's for the month of December, but that was about it. Then, with enough interest, a magazine came out in January 1970 entitled "The Marine Aquarist," and salt water keeping took off from there. I have a fair smattering of these issues up though 1975, but really couldn't tell you off the top of my head if any addressed the nitrogen cycle, but its likely they did. Ray --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, bill 1433 <warrenprint@...> wrote: > > > Hey Ray!  Same as a previous return today at \\Steve//!!!!! > > Thanks for the memories! This was how I started, or should I say my Mom did.. She started in the hobby with the neighbor next door and it just a while I was into it myself. > > As I can recall though, there was work being done in the hobby for > the nitrogen cycle, only it was not the Freshwater Team doing it. As I recall, any mention of it in the magazines fell to our brothers on the Saltwater Team. Although much has, and is still be written about Biological and the Nitrogen cycles and their affects on aquariums, I truly believe that is was from this group that many of the idea's that we seem to hold so dear today came from. > > ol' bill >   > > --- On Sun, 7/12/09, Raymond Wetzel <sevenspringss@...> wrote: > > > From: Raymond Wetzel <sevenspringss@...> > > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Tank Maintenance > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > Date: Sunday, July 12, 2009, 4:44 PM > > \\Steve//,  I believe you're > > 100% right -- there was no work done on the nitrogen cycle > > until the 1970's as far as I know.  Just as you're > > saying though, we knew enough (for whatever reason) to do > > weekly PWC's by the '60's.  I'm inclined to believe > > this may have been due because we realized ammonia could > > build up, even if we didn't yet know about the cycle -- and > > I think we may have learned about growth-inhibiting hormones > > building up.  > > > > During my formative years in the tropical fish hobby from > > the early 1950's on, and into the '60's, I never read a > > thing on the nitrogen cycle -- and I made sure to buy a copy > > of Dr. Innes' "The Aquarium" magazine each and every > > month.  This was a subject that nobody knew about -- or > > if it was known about in public aquariums perhaps (and that > > remains unknown), the topic was never discussed in the hobby > > and it seems as though even those publishers and their > > authors of the hobby magazines at the time knew nothing > > about it; and some of those magazines (such as "Aquarium > > Journal") had leading ichthyologists of the day writing in > > their publications -- who are still well respected until > > this day as leaders in this field. > > > > Before having tropical fish, I was given goldfish in an 8 > > gallon homemade metal-framed tank back in the late > > 1940's.  At the time, I was instructed by my parents to > > "clean" them every month by removing the fish, plants and > > snails to a small bowl, removing all the water in the tank > > and thoroughly washing the gravel.  Then, the tank was > > set up again with "spankin' clean" gravel and all new water > > into which the fish were placed back into -- good for > > another month.  This was the same maintenance procedure > > that my mother used 20 years before that when my grandmother > > had goldfish during the 1920's as that was the normal, > > recognized way of taking care of goldfish (and no > > dechlorinator was ever used). > > > > Now, as at least we all knew back then, tropical fish were > > not as hardy as goldfish and needed different care, but too, > > by then it was "realized" even back during the 1930's that > > there was nothing better for your tropical fish than "old > > water," which was prized. Just as you're saying, once we set > > up a tank it was never disturbed -- and our goal was to > > create a "balanced aquarium."  This concept was even > > taught in biology books of that day, in high school, and > > certainly in the hobby magazines and books.  We didn't > > do regular weekly PWC's as that would mean we'd be throwing > > out good aged water -- but we did have dip tubes to use for > > cleaning the gravel, which just entailed getting the mulm > > (fish waste, etc.) off of the gravel's surface, removing > > dead leaves off the bottom, etc.  A certain amount of > > this mulm was also prized as it meant for good plant > > fertilizer.  The plants grew and the fish remained > > healthy.  We were careful not to overfeed, and to not > > allow excess food falling to the substrate as we knew the > > consequences of foul gravel building up over time.  > > > > Considering this consequence, a "gravel cleaning" was done > > about every six months, by using a planting stick to stir up > > the top layer of the gravel after which about a 25% PWC was > > done to remove as much gunk as was practical, but this water > > change was not done with keeping regular maintenance in mind > > but only as a means of getting rid of this debris.  > > Depending on the fish we kept, and the hardness of our tap > > water, some of us cut our tap water with rain or snow water > > as was written about in the "latest" literature of the > > time.  Topping off with tap water was done between > > these time, to replace evaporation -- full hoods were never > > especially promoted.  As you said though, tanks were > > never completely broken down, unless a new set up was > > planned.  We did use filters, which obviously must have > > given us our nitrogen cycles even though we never knew it, > > but power filters were not invented yet until 1955 -- and > > even then -- no one could afford them until the prices on > > them started to come down several years later (I didn't have > > power filters until at least 1960).  So, until then, > > ALL filters were air driven.  Oddly enough, such tanks > > flourished after being set up like this for years.  We > > never heard of a "pH crash" either (and NEVER lost fish as a > > result of the possibility). > > > > When first setting up a new tank and even for some time > > afterwards, we NEVER had "new-tank-syndrome."  As for > > stocking the tanks, we NEVER knew to wait 6 weeks -- we > > ALWAYS stocked the tanks within a day or two (if not, the > > same day) of first setting it up -- and we NEVER lost a fish > > due to ammonia or nitrite poisoning as a result of a tank > > not be cycled.  Never even had a fish get sick as a > > result of excess nitrate, surprisingly enough.  I guess > > the fish never knew about the nitrogen cycle either, so > > there was no reason to even be cautious of it.  They > > (the fish) must have read the same books and magazines as we > > did, which was why we never knew to be concerned about the > > cycle, luckily.  As they say -- "What you don't know, > > won't hurt you."  We didn't know about the cycle, and > > it never hurt us, nor ever killed a fish; it was if the > > nitrogen cycle never existed back then as far as being > > something needed to keep fish.  Certainly we never > > bothered with it, not having known about it.  We did > > always use a dechlorinator though. > > > > Getting back to "fortnight," Lenny are you sure you didn't > > just do another Google on Wikipedia for that (LOL)?  > > Ray > > > > > > > >   --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, > > "Steve Szabo" <steve@> wrote: > > > > > > As for water changes, I can remember in the early 60's > > trying to > > > remember doing weekly water changes in my tank and > > being chided for > > > forgetting (hey, I was a kid--there were a lot of > > important things to > > > tend to, like bike riding in the warm weather, sliding > > in the cold, > > > playing basketball and baseball, and generally trying > > to be out of the > > > house more than I was in). In the later 60's the > > memory is a bit fuzzy. > > > I seem to remember a lot of mud and rain and good > > music at some place in > > > NY, Wells Street in Chicago, Rolling Stones, Cream, > > Vanilla Fudge, > > > Frigid Pink, Pink Floyd, going to a prom in jeans and > > tails with flowers > > > in my hair, and some other things best left unsaid in > > mixed company. > > > > > > Back then, no one knew of the nitrogen cycle. I do not > > think any real > > > work on the topic was done until the 70's (is that > > correct Ray?) and it > > > did take a while for the word to get out. > > > > > > The only times I recall breaking down tanks was to > > move them, or to > > > completely re-do them with new fish and plants. The > > mythical beast back > > > then was the "balanced aquarium" where a combination > > of fish, plants, > > > and filtration would establish a "balance" that would > > maintain the fish > > > and aquarium in good condition, and, perhaps, even > > allow for breeding. > > > What, it seems, this really was that we had > > established a cycle in such > > > a tank, though we did not know or understand it at the > > time. Tearing > > > down a tank would disrupt this (as we obviously know > > today) and so was > > > not done unless needed. A benign neglect was the > > watchword of the day. > > > > > > \\Steve// > > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] > > > On Behalf Of Lenny V. aka GoldLenny > > > Sent: Sunday, July 12, 2009 10:22 AM > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Tank Maintenance > > > > > > How long is a fortnight?  Just kidding... I know > > it's 14 days but > > > fortnight > > > isn't used very often any longer up here.  Is it > > still a common term > > > down > > > under? > > > > > > While many of us preach and practice doing PWC's, > > gravel vacuuming and > > > filter maintenance at least once a week, if the > > bioload on a tank is > > > small, > > > then going two weeks could be OK. > > > > > > It really depends on the bioload of the tank and how > > long you think it's > > > OK > > > for the fish to be stuck in a tank full of fish poop > > and pee?  In the > > > "old > > > days" (you know... like when Ray and Bill and > > \\Steve// started keeping > > > fish > > > <BG>), it was common to do tank maintenance once > > a month and many > > > instructional type books had folks completely breaking > > down their tanks > > > on a > > > monthly basis or every few months.  Of course, > > most folks back then > > > didn't > > > know how the nitrogen cycle worked in aquaria and how > > all of the rest of > > > the > > > tanks microbiological ecology affected the water > > quality and why it WAS > > > NOT > > > a good thing to completely break down the tank like > > that.  > > > > > > Further, while fish pool comes out reasonably solid, > > after a short while > > > in > > > the tank, it starts to break down.  Once it > > breaks down, it dilutes into > > > the > > > water column so at that point the fish are now > > swimming around in > > > diluted > > > diarrhea.  I know... DISGUSTING... but it's > > true.  By doing weekly > > > gravel > > > vacuums, you are getting most of the fish poop up > > while it's still solid > > > and > > > down on the bottom  After a week, you are forcing > > the fish to swim > > > around in > > > their liquefied poo.  This is why I preach and > > practice doing weekly (or > > > more frequent) tank and filter maintenance. > > > > > > Do we all slip up sometimes... yep, absolutely, > > guilty-as-charged... but > > > if > > > we decide to start doing tank maintenance every two > > weeks and then we > > > slip > > > up, then it's three weeks or four weeks before tank > > maintenance gets > > > done so > > > the fish are forced to live and breath their own > > liquefied fish poo for > > > an > > > even longer period of time.  > > > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > > > (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are > > listed on the right > > > side, alphabetically under Labels and also under > > Archives by Year, > > > Month) > > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] > > > On > > > Behalf Of Lisa > > > Sent: Sunday, July 12, 2009 5:43 AM > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > > Subject: [AquaticLife] Tank Maintenance > > > > > > I was just wondering, is it absolutly neccecery to do > > s gravel vac as > > > well > > > as a pwc each week? or could i get away with just > > doing weekily pwc's > > > and a > > > GV every fortnight > > > > > > Thanks > > > Lisa > > > > > > > > > > > > > ------------------------------------ > > > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when > > replying, Thank You. > > ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> > > ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> > > PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is > > NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of > > the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new > > subject (was re: old subject)" <- > > <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. > > , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. > > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. > > > > If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of > > unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by > > clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the home page.  > > > > Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com > > to receive the digest, which includes up to 25 posts at a > > time in a single email > > > > Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com > > for the No E-Mail option where you will still be able to > > read messages on the group and post replies. > > > > Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com > > to receive individual e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > >     mailto:AquaticLife-fullfeatured@yahoogroups.com > > > > > > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 41988	From: Raymond Wetzel	Date: 7/13/2009
Subject: Re: Tank Maintenance

\\Steve//, The time scale you're outlining seems to be about right. I doubt if we would find much (if any) mention of the nitrogen cycle until the 1970's, and that was probably first brought to the hobby's attention in the marine sector. I don't recall having read anything at all about it even in the 1960's. As I mentioned, I believe we came to learn about possible ammonia build up in the '60's, but even then that part's a little vague -- although we were encouraged by then to do weekly PWC's (but then, I can't remember exacty why). I don't recall freshwater ammonia test kits back in those years as a regular thing, expect perhaps in lab quality kits like LaMotte which were also advertised for the hobby if one wanted to spend that much. I DO know that I knew very little about the consequences of ammonia when coupled with pH. I used to raise lots of young Oscars and sell them to the wholesalers. I remember one time having delivered an order of several hundred Oscars to one of my wholesale customers, when I hadn't done a PWC on them prior to delivering them, that they slowly started to "fold up" after acclimating them to their tanks --their water had a fairly high pH of about 7.8. Apparently, and unknown to me at the time, my water had built up ammonia but remained non-toxic (ammonium) as the pH had dropped below neutral. When releasing these fish (and their water) into the customer's pH 7.8 water, whatever ammonium was in my water suddenly became toxic ammonia in his tanks. Never did figure that one out until information came forth on the topic. Couldn't say I learned from it at the time, as there was no knowledge of this subject published yet, so it remained a mystery for a while, and as far as releasing their water, it was the customer who did this as normal procedure with all his shipments. Apparently, he had no way of knowing about the possible consequences of ammonia/pH either, and just trusted that my fish were disease-free (he never had reason to distrust my shipments in the past). Certainly agree on the cycle information needing to be publicized more widely at present. For one thing, too many noobies feel they don't need to read up on fish keeping as they probably feel you just dump the fish in a tankful of water, feed (overfeed?) and watch them. I think this knowledge should start at the local shops level; after all, they would only stand to benefit as they'd have customers who would stay in the hobby buying more stuff from them. The short-sighted attitude of being able to keep selling the noobies replacement fish doesn't last too long when the customer drops out. That's one thing I distinctly remember years ago, even back in the '50's -- LFS's always had several piles of literature/brochures on the counter as freebies from various manufacturers like Long-Life and Metaframe, etc., even though they didn't contain anything on the cycle back then. They should supply this today with every tank purchase -- not just as an optional counter pick-up by the shop goers, but with making sure to include it with the tank purchase, and even drawing it to the attention of their customers not specifically buying a tank. Great idea, moving this topic over to the AHHS. I'm sure it would stir up some discussion, and someone's bound to know more on when the cycle concept was introduced. I'd like to see some of their replies. Ray --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Steve Szabo" <steve@...> wrote: > > Looking through literature cited in Spotte's _Fish and Invertebrate Culture, Second Edition_ (1979), it appears that while the different nitrogenous compounds were known since at least the '50's, no real serious work toward discovering how they fit together seems to appear until the mid-60's. in the scientific literature. Without examining the sources, this would lead me to believe that the nitrogen cycle was not truly found and studied until then. Once science had it, it would then slowly filter down to the hobbyist level, so, probably, if you were looking in hobbyist literature, you probably would not find any mention of it prior to the early '70's. Once it had appeared, it would take some time to really start to be understood and used by hobbyists, however, for the number of questions we have here, it is evident that more work needs to be done to disseminate the information so that even the noob's are made aware of it, if not through reading, then via the local shops where they buy their equipment and fish. Probably a pipe dream though. > > Ray, maybe you and I should move further discussion of this over to AHHS. Some of those guys should know the history of this in the hobby. > > \\Steve// > > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of bill 1433 > Sent: Sunday, July 12, 2009 7:55 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: Tank Maintenance > > > Hey Ray!  Same as a previous return today at \\Steve//!!!!! > > Thanks for the memories! This was how I started, or should I say my Mom did.. She started in the hobby with the neighbor next door and it just a while I was into it myself. > > As I can recall though, there was work being done in the hobby for > the nitrogen cycle, only it was not the Freshwater Team doing it. As I recall, any mention of it in the magazines fell to our brothers on the Saltwater Team. Although much has, and is still be written about Biological and the Nitrogen cycles and their affects on aquariums, I truly believe that is was from this group that many of the idea's that we seem to hold so dear today came from. > > ol' bill >   > > --- On Sun, 7/12/09, Raymond Wetzel <sevenspringss@...> wrote: > > > From: Raymond Wetzel <sevenspringss@...> > > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Tank Maintenance > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > Date: Sunday, July 12, 2009, 4:44 PM > > \\Steve//,  I believe you're > > 100% right -- there was no work done on the nitrogen cycle > > until the 1970's as far as I know.  Just as you're > > saying though, we knew enough (for whatever reason) to do > > weekly PWC's by the '60's.  I'm inclined to believe > > this may have been due because we realized ammonia could > > build up, even if we didn't yet know about the cycle -- and > > I think we may have learned about growth-inhibiting hormones > > building up.  > > > > During my formative years in the tropical fish hobby from > > the early 1950's on, and into the '60's, I never read a > > thing on the nitrogen cycle -- and I made sure to buy a copy > > of Dr. Innes' "The Aquarium" magazine each and every > > month.  This was a subject that nobody knew about -- or > > if it was known about in public aquariums perhaps (and that > > remains unknown), the topic was never discussed in the hobby > > and it seems as though even those publishers and their > > authors of the hobby magazines at the time knew nothing > > about it; and some of those magazines (such as "Aquarium > > Journal") had leading ichthyologists of the day writing in > > their publications -- who are still well respected until > > this day as leaders in this field. > > > > Before having tropical fish, I was given goldfish in an 8 > > gallon homemade metal-framed tank back in the late > > 1940's.  At the time, I was instructed by my parents to > > "clean" them every month by removing the fish, plants and > > snails to a small bowl, removing all the water in the tank > > and thoroughly washing the gravel.  Then, the tank was > > set up again with "spankin' clean" gravel and all new water > > into which the fish were placed back into -- good for > > another month.  This was the same maintenance procedure > > that my mother used 20 years before that when my grandmother > > had goldfish during the 1920's as that was the normal, > > recognized way of taking care of goldfish (and no > > dechlorinator was ever used). > > > > Now, as at least we all knew back then, tropical fish were > > not as hardy as goldfish and needed different care, but too, > > by then it was "realized" even back during the 1930's that > > there was nothing better for your tropical fish than "old > > water," which was prized. Just as you're saying, once we set > > up a tank it was never disturbed -- and our goal was to > > create a "balanced aquarium."  This concept was even > > taught in biology books of that day, in high school, and > > certainly in the hobby magazines and books.  We didn't > > do regular weekly PWC's as that would mean we'd be throwing > > out good aged water -- but we did have dip tubes to use for > > cleaning the gravel, which just entailed getting the mulm > > (fish waste, etc.) off of the gravel's surface, removing > > dead leaves off the bottom, etc.  A certain amount of > > this mulm was also prized as it meant for good plant > > fertilizer.  The plants grew and the fish remained > > healthy.  We were careful not to overfeed, and to not > > allow excess food falling to the substrate as we knew the > > consequences of foul gravel building up over time.  > > > > Considering this consequence, a "gravel cleaning" was done > > about every six months, by using a planting stick to stir up > > the top layer of the gravel after which about a 25% PWC was > > done to remove as much gunk as was practical, but this water > > change was not done with keeping regular maintenance in mind > > but only as a means of getting rid of this debris.  > > Depending on the fish we kept, and the hardness of our tap > > water, some of us cut our tap water with rain or snow water > > as was written about in the "latest" literature of the > > time.  Topping off with tap water was done between > > these time, to replace evaporation -- full hoods were never > > especially promoted.  As you said though, tanks were > > never completely broken down, unless a new set up was > > planned.  We did use filters, which obviously must have > > given us our nitrogen cycles even though we never knew it, > > but power filters were not invented yet until 1955 -- and > > even then -- no one could afford them until the prices on > > them started to come down several years later (I didn't have > > power filters until at least 1960).  So, until then, > > ALL filters were air driven.  Oddly enough, such tanks > > flourished after being set up like this for years.  We > > never heard of a "pH crash" either (and NEVER lost fish as a > > result of the possibility). > > > > When first setting up a new tank and even for some time > > afterwards, we NEVER had "new-tank-syndrome."  As for > > stocking the tanks, we NEVER knew to wait 6 weeks -- we > > ALWAYS stocked the tanks within a day or two (if not, the > > same day) of first setting it up -- and we NEVER lost a fish > > due to ammonia or nitrite poisoning as a result of a tank > > not be cycled.  Never even had a fish get sick as a > > result of excess nitrate, surprisingly enough.  I guess > > the fish never knew about the nitrogen cycle either, so > > there was no reason to even be cautious of it.  They > > (the fish) must have read the same books and magazines as we > > did, which was why we never knew to be concerned about the > > cycle, luckily.  As they say -- "What you don't know, > > won't hurt you."  We didn't know about the cycle, and > > it never hurt us, nor ever killed a fish; it was if the > > nitrogen cycle never existed back then as far as being > > something needed to keep fish.  Certainly we never > > bothered with it, not having known about it.  We did > > always use a dechlorinator though. > > > > Getting back to "fortnight," Lenny are you sure you didn't > > just do another Google on Wikipedia for that (LOL)?  > > Ray > > > > > > > >   --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, > > "Steve Szabo" <steve@> wrote: > > > > > > As for water changes, I can remember in the early 60's > > trying to > > > remember doing weekly water changes in my tank and > > being chided for > > > forgetting (hey, I was a kid--there were a lot of > > important things to > > > tend to, like bike riding in the warm weather, sliding > > in the cold, > > > playing basketball and baseball, and generally trying > > to be out of the > > > house more than I was in). In the later 60's the > > memory is a bit fuzzy. > > > I seem to remember a lot of mud and rain and good > > music at some place in > > > NY, Wells Street in Chicago, Rolling Stones, Cream, > > Vanilla Fudge, > > > Frigid Pink, Pink Floyd, going to a prom in jeans and > > tails with flowers > > > in my hair, and some other things best left unsaid in > > mixed company. > > > > > > Back then, no one knew of the nitrogen cycle. I do not > > think any real > > > work on the topic was done until the 70's (is that > > correct Ray?) and it > > > did take a while for the word to get out. > > > > > > The only times I recall breaking down tanks was to > > move them, or to > > > completely re-do them with new fish and plants. The > > mythical beast back > > > then was the "balanced aquarium" where a combination > > of fish, plants, > > > and filtration would establish a "balance" that would > > maintain the fish > > > and aquarium in good condition, and, perhaps, even > > allow for breeding. > > > What, it seems, this really was that we had > > established a cycle in such > > > a tank, though we did not know or understand it at the > > time. Tearing > > > down a tank would disrupt this (as we obviously know > > today) and so was > > > not done unless needed. A benign neglect was the > > watchword of the day. > > > > > > \\Steve// > > > > > > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 41989	From: Raymond Wetzel	Date: 7/13/2009
Subject: Re: Tank Maintenance

Okay, I'll give you that one (LOL). Right, there are still people who don't know what Lincoln was referring to in his Gettysburg address when he said "Four score and seven years ago . . . " (a score meaning 20 years). But, do you know what "flock" means in the context of time? A flock is 2 score (40 years); I guess Lincoln could have said "Two flock and seven years ago . . ." (LOL). BTW, did you know these other time measurements: Atomus = "a twinkling of the eye" - 1/376 minute (160 milliseconds). Blink = 0.864 second Jerk = 0.3048 m/sec3 Jiffy = (in computer engineering) - 0.01 second, or - 33.3564 picoseconds. Moment = 1/40 hour, or 1.5 minutes Wanted to mention a few measures of distance here as well, which not too many people know about, like "Hecter" (Hectare), "Rod" and "Fathom." My "all-time" favorite is one I'm sure you're well aware of, with living on the Big Muddy. We both know that Samuel Clemens' pen name was "Mark Twain" but I'm sure not very many people know what this term refers to. "Twain" was an old term for "Two" -- on the Mississippi, the riverboats had to take new soundings to make a new chart whenever the channel would change after a big flood, and they used a rope (with weight) that had knots tied in it at every Fathom (Fathom = 6 Feet). They had to make sure that when they took soundings, that these ropes would show at least 12 Feet (2 Fathoms) as that was the draught of the riverboats -- hence, "Mark Twain" or Two Marks (Two Knots). Ray --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@...> wrote: > > "Getting back to "fortnight," Lenny are you sure you didn't just do another > Google on Wikipedia for that (LOL)? Ray" > > Nope... I knew what "fortnight" was and "four score and seven years" too. > > Of course, when my brother and I would turn our beds into "forts", that > could be called "fortnight" too. ;-) > > Of course, whoever stuck their head out from under the sheet lost the > "Turtle Game". And I'm not pulling your finger... ooops.. I meant leg, with > that one either! ;-) > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right > side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On > Behalf Of Raymond Wetzel > Sent: Sunday, July 12, 2009 3:44 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Tank Maintenance > > \\Steve//, I believe you're 100% right -- there was no work done on the > nitrogen cycle until the 1970's as far as I know. Just as you're saying > though, we knew enough (for whatever reason) to do weekly PWC's by the > '60's. I'm inclined to believe this may have been due because we realized > ammonia could build up, even if we didn't yet know about the cycle -- and I > think we may have learned about growth-inhibiting hormones building up. > > During my formative years in the tropical fish hobby from the early 1950's > on, and into the '60's, I never read a thing on the nitrogen cycle -- and I > made sure to buy a copy of Dr. Innes' "The Aquarium" magazine each and every > month. This was a subject that nobody knew about -- or if it was known > about in public aquariums perhaps (and that remains unknown), the topic was > never discussed in the hobby and it seems as though even those publishers > and their authors of the hobby magazines at the time knew nothing about it; > and some of those magazines (such as "Aquarium Journal") had leading > ichthyologists of the day writing in their publications -- who are still > well respected until this day as leaders in this field. > > Before having tropical fish, I was given goldfish in an 8 gallon homemade > metal-framed tank back in the late 1940's. At the time, I was instructed by > my parents to "clean" them every month by removing the fish, plants and > snails to a small bowl, removing all the water in the tank and thoroughly > washing the gravel. Then, the tank was set up again with "spankin' clean" > gravel and all new water into which the fish were placed back into -- good > for another month. This was the same maintenance procedure that my mother > used 20 years before that when my grandmother had goldfish during the 1920's > as that was the normal, recognized way of taking care of goldfish (and no > dechlorinator was ever used). > > Now, as at least we all knew back then, tropical fish were not as hardy as > goldfish and needed different care, but too, by then it was "realized" even > back during the 1930's that there was nothing better for your tropical fish > than "old water," which was prized. Just as you're saying, once we set up a > tank it was never disturbed -- and our goal was to create a "balanced > aquarium." This concept was even taught in biology books of that day, in > high school, and certainly in the hobby magazines and books. We didn't do > regular weekly PWC's as that would mean we'd be throwing out good aged water > -- but we did have dip tubes to use for cleaning the gravel, which just > entailed getting the mulm (fish waste, etc.) off of the gravel's surface, > removing dead leaves off the bottom, etc. A certain amount of this mulm was > also prized as it meant for good plant fertilizer. The plants grew and the > fish remained healthy. We were careful not to overfeed, and to not allow > excess food falling to the substrate as we knew the consequences of foul > gravel building up over time. > > Considering this consequence, a "gravel cleaning" was done about every six > months, by using a planting stick to stir up the top layer of the gravel > after which about a 25% PWC was done to remove as much gunk as was > practical, but this water change was not done with keeping regular > maintenance in mind but only as a means of getting rid of this debris. > Depending on the fish we kept, and the hardness of our tap water, some of us > cut our tap water with rain or snow water as was written about in the > "latest" literature of the time. Topping off with tap water was done > between these time, to replace evaporation -- full hoods were never > especially promoted. As you said though, tanks were never completely broken > down, unless a new set up was planned. We did use filters, which obviously > must have given us our nitrogen cycles even though we never knew it, but > power filters were not invented yet until 1955 -- and even then -- no one > could afford them until the prices on them started to come down several > years later (I didn't have power filters until at least 1960). So, until > then, ALL filters were air driven. Oddly enough, such tanks flourished > after being set up like this for years. We never heard of a "pH crash" > either (and NEVER lost fish as a result of the possibility). > > When first setting up a new tank and even for some time afterwards, we NEVER > had "new-tank-syndrome." As for stocking the tanks, we NEVER knew to wait 6 > weeks -- we ALWAYS stocked the tanks within a day or two (if not, the same > day) of first setting it up -- and we NEVER lost a fish due to ammonia or > nitrite poisoning as a result of a tank not be cycled. Never even had a > fish get sick as a result of excess nitrate, surprisingly enough. I guess > the fish never knew about the nitrogen cycle either, so there was no reason > to even be cautious of it. They (the fish) must have read the same books > and magazines as we did, which was why we never knew to be concerned about > the cycle, luckily. As they say -- "What you don't know, won't hurt you." > We didn't know about the cycle, and it never hurt us, nor ever killed a > fish; it was if the nitrogen cycle never existed back then as far as being > something needed to keep fish. Certainly we never bothered with it, not > having known about it. We did always use a dechlorinator though. > > Getting back to "fortnight," Lenny are you sure you didn't just do another > Google on Wikipedia for that (LOL)? Ray > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Steve Szabo" <steve@> wrote: > > > > As for water changes, I can remember in the early 60's trying to > > remember doing weekly water changes in my tank and being chided for > > forgetting (hey, I was a kid--there were a lot of important things to > > tend to, like bike riding in the warm weather, sliding in the cold, > > playing basketball and baseball, and generally trying to be out of the > > house more than I was in). In the later 60's the memory is a bit fuzzy. > > I seem to remember a lot of mud and rain and good music at some place > > in NY, Wells Street in Chicago, Rolling Stones, Cream, Vanilla Fudge, > > Frigid Pink, Pink Floyd, going to a prom in jeans and tails with > > flowers in my hair, and some other things best left unsaid in mixed > company. > > > > Back then, no one knew of the nitrogen cycle. I do not think any real > > work on the topic was done until the 70's (is that correct Ray?) and > > it did take a while for the word to get out. > > > > The only times I recall breaking down tanks was to move them, or to > > completely re-do them with new fish and plants. The mythical beast > > back then was the "balanced aquarium" where a combination of fish, > > plants, and filtration would establish a "balance" that would maintain > > the fish and aquarium in good condition, and, perhaps, even allow for > breeding. > > What, it seems, this really was that we had established a cycle in > > such a tank, though we did not know or understand it at the time. > > Tearing down a tank would disrupt this (as we obviously know today) > > and so was not done unless needed. A benign neglect was the watchword of > the day. > > > > \\Steve// > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] > > On Behalf Of Lenny V. aka GoldLenny > > Sent: Sunday, July 12, 2009 10:22 AM > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Tank Maintenance > > > > How long is a fortnight? Just kidding... I know it's 14 days but > > fortnight isn't used very often any longer up here. Is it still a > > common term down under? > > > > While many of us preach and practice doing PWC's, gravel vacuuming and > > filter maintenance at least once a week, if the bioload on a tank is > > small, then going two weeks could be OK. > > > > It really depends on the bioload of the tank and how long you think > > it's OK for the fish to be stuck in a tank full of fish poop and pee? > > In the "old days" (you know... like when Ray and Bill and \\Steve// > > started keeping fish <BG>), it was common to do tank maintenance once > > a month and many instructional type books had folks completely > > breaking down their tanks on a monthly basis or every few months. Of > > course, most folks back then didn't know how the nitrogen cycle worked > > in aquaria and how all of the rest of the tanks microbiological > > ecology affected the water quality and why it WAS NOT a good thing to > > completely break down the tank like that. > > > > Further, while fish pool comes out reasonably solid, after a short > > while in the tank, it starts to break down. Once it breaks down, it > > dilutes into the water column so at that point the fish are now > > swimming around in diluted diarrhea. I know... DISGUSTING... but it's > > true. By doing weekly gravel vacuums, you are getting most of the > > fish poop up while it's still solid and down on the bottom After a > > week, you are forcing the fish to swim around in their liquefied poo. > > This is why I preach and practice doing weekly (or more frequent) tank > > and filter maintenance. > > > > Do we all slip up sometimes... yep, absolutely, guilty-as-charged... > > but if we decide to start doing tank maintenance every two weeks and > > then we slip up, then it's three weeks or four weeks before tank > > maintenance gets done so the fish are forced to live and breath their > > own liquefied fish poo for an even longer period of time. > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles > > referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically > > under Labels and also under Archives by Year, > > Month) > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] > > On > > Behalf Of Lisa > > Sent: Sunday, July 12, 2009 5:43 AM > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > Subject: [AquaticLife] Tank Maintenance > > > > I was just wondering, is it absolutly neccecery to do s gravel vac as > > well as a pwc each week? or could i get away with just doing weekily > > pwc's and a GV every fortnight > > > > Thanks > > Lisa >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 41990	From: anallafamily.2001	Date: 7/13/2009
Subject: All angels died...

I have a question ...........Now that all angels died if I wanted to put community fish in the tank, do I still have to drain tank and dissinfect everything? The reason I am asking is because I live in Ok. and I have to go buy the water i put in my tank from a bottle water place. My water from the fosit is to hard and ph is way to high.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 41991	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 7/13/2009
Subject: Re: All angels died...

What are your tapwater parameters its usually best to stick with fish that like your water first. Amber On Jul 13, 2009 6:40 AM, "anallafamily.2001" <anallafamily.2001@...> wrote: I have a question ...........Now that all angels died if I wanted to put community fish in the tank, do I still have to drain tank and dissinfect everything? The reason I am asking is because I live in Ok. and I have to go buy the water i put in my tank from a bottle water place. My water from the fosit is to hard and ph is way to high. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 41992	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 7/13/2009
Subject: Re: Question about feeding green veggies

My goldfish eat broccoli. I buy the frozen florets and just microwave one floret for a little while till it starts to steam, then let it cool and drop it into the tank. They eat all the "bushy" part but they do not eat the stalk so look for and remove the stalk. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Lisa Sent: Monday, July 13, 2009 3:12 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Question about feeding green veggies Just wanted to ask, can i put a portion of brocholi in for them? i tried them on a split green bean, and they liked that. But yeah. Um. Quick response would be really helpful. Thanks

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 41993	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 7/13/2009
Subject: Re: All angels died...

Further, what are the water parameters of the bottled water you are buying and the 48 hour tap water baseline test results? What are the test results and water parameters of your tank at present? (Ammonia, nitrite, nitrate, pH, temperature, GH, KH and any others you may have) Most "Spring Water" that is being sold nowadays is actually just "Filtered Tap Water" and depending on what is filtered, it may not affect the mineral level or pH level. It may just be filtered through carbon which would then only remove mostly dissolved organics. You could obtain this level of filtration by running an HOB filter system (with fresh carbon) on a garbage can or 5G bucket of water. You have to read the small print, asterisks and ingredients. Also, "Distilled Water" is sold in water bottles as well. If you use "Distilled Water" all the time in a tank, it will have an adverse effect on the fish. Distilled Water is lacking minerals, buffers, macro-nutrients, etc.. Now, if one has really hard water and wanted it softer, then mixing Distilled Water and tap water to dilute the mineral content and pH of the tap water, that would be OK as long as one has the ability to test the water to make sure their results are consistent. BUT... back to the question, if you are not sure of what killed off your fish, then a complete breakdown/cleaning may be in order. If you know the problem was related to a certain parasite, then you may be able to take other steps, such as waiting long enough so that the parasites die off without a host fish to live off of. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Amber Berglund Sent: Monday, July 13, 2009 9:47 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] All angels died... What are your tapwater parameters its usually best to stick with fish that like your water first. Amber On Jul 13, 2009 6:40 AM, "anallafamily.2001" <anallafamily.2001@...> wrote: I have a question ...........Now that all angels died if I wanted to put community fish in the tank, do I still have to drain tank and dissinfect everything? The reason I am asking is because I live in Ok. and I have to go buy the water i put in my tank from a bottle water place. My water from the fosit is to hard and ph is way to high.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 41994	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 7/13/2009
Subject: Amber from Alaska

Amber, I sent a reply to you off-list (when you first started the thread with Pam about your fish order... lol) but it bounced back to me from your rose-fields.com account. Below my sig is the message that I got back. I deleted some of the header information. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) This is an automatically generated Delivery Status Notification THIS IS A WARNING MESSAGE ONLY. YOU DO NOT NEED TO RESEND YOUR MESSAGE. Delivery to the following recipient has been delayed: amber@... Message will be retried for 1 more day(s) Technical details of temporary failure: DNS Error: Could not contact DNS servers ----- Message header follows ----- Received: by 10.100.96.4 with SMTP id Sat, 11 Jul 2009 06:21:13 -0700 (PDT) Return-Path: <goldlenny@...> Received: from YOUR by mx.google.com with ESMTPS id (version=SSLv3 cipher=RC4-MD5); Sat, 11 Jul 2009 06:21:13 -0700 (PDT) From: "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <goldlenny@...> To: "'Amber Berglund'" <amber@...> References: <4A583034.3050906@...> Subject: OFF-LIST - RE: [AquaticLife] Gosh, I forgot to ask something important, LOL Date: Sat, 11 Jul 2009 08:21:05 -0500

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 41995	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 7/13/2009
Subject: Re: Amber from Alaska

Sorry I swapped email accounts yahoo was charging too much. Its arberglund@... now... thought it showed at the top of the thread. Lol Amber On Jul 13, 2009 7:36 AM, "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@...> wrote: Amber, I sent a reply to you off-list (when you first started the thread with Pam about your fish order... lol) but it bounced back to me from your rose-fields.com account. Below my sig is the message that I got back. I deleted some of the header information. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) This is an automatically generated Delivery Status Notification THIS IS A WARNING MESSAGE ONLY. YOU DO NOT NEED TO RESEND YOUR MESSAGE. Delivery to the following recipient has been delayed: amber@... <amber%40rose-fields.com> Message will be retried for 1 more day(s) Technical details of temporary failure: DNS Error: Could not contact DNS servers ----- Message header follows ----- Received: by 10.100.96.4 with SMTP id Sat, 11 Jul 2009 06:21:13 -0700 (PDT) Return-Path: <goldlenny@... <goldlenny%40gmail.com>> Received: from YOUR by mx.google.com with ESMTPS id (version=SSLv3 cipher=RC4-MD5); Sat, 11 Jul 2009 06:21:13 -0700 (PDT) From: "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <goldlenny@... <goldlenny%40gmail.com>> To: "'Amber Berglund'" <amber@... <amber%40rose-fields.com>> References: <4A583034.3050906@... <4A583034.3050906%40gmail.com>> Subject: OFF-LIST - RE: [AquaticLife] Gosh, I forgot to ask something important, LOL Date: Sat, 11 Jul 2009 08:21:05 -0500 [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 41996	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 7/13/2009
Subject: Re: Amber from Alaska

It does. I just used that other one since I had it in my Outlook Contacts info for you. I'm updating Outlook now. I mainly wanted to alert you in case you did not know that account was bouncing back. BTW... welcome to Gmail. It's different than Yahoo and other freemail in that it uses "Labels" instead of folders, which is nice as you can attach several labels to an email whereas in the old day, if you wanted to sort an email into multiple folders, you would have to manually put a copy into each folder. If you need any help with the intricacies of Gmail, email me off-list or there is a BIG Gmail Google Group for more advanced help. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Amber Berglund Sent: Monday, July 13, 2009 10:58 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Amber from Alaska Sorry I swapped email accounts yahoo was charging too much. Its arberglund@... now... thought it showed at the top of the thread. Lol Amber On Jul 13, 2009 7:36 AM, "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@...> wrote: Amber, I sent a reply to you off-list (when you first started the thread with Pam about your fish order... lol) but it bounced back to me from your rose-fields.com account. Below my sig is the message that I got back. I deleted some of the header information. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) This is an automatically generated Delivery Status Notification THIS IS A WARNING MESSAGE ONLY. YOU DO NOT NEED TO RESEND YOUR MESSAGE. Delivery to the following recipient has been delayed: amber@... <amber%40rose-fields.com> Message will be retried for 1 more day(s) Technical details of temporary failure: DNS Error: Could not contact DNS servers ----- Message header follows ----- Received: by 10.100.96.4 with SMTP id Sat, 11 Jul 2009 06:21:13 -0700 (PDT) Return-Path: <goldlenny@... <goldlenny%40gmail.com>> Received: from YOUR by mx.google.com with ESMTPS id (version=SSLv3 cipher=RC4-MD5); Sat, 11 Jul 2009 06:21:13 -0700 (PDT) From: "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <goldlenny@... <goldlenny%40gmail.com>> To: "'Amber Berglund'" <amber@... <amber%40rose-fields.com>> References: <4A583034.3050906@... <4A583034.3050906%40gmail.com>> Subject: OFF-LIST - RE: [AquaticLife] Gosh, I forgot to ask something important, LOL Date: Sat, 11 Jul 2009 08:21:05 -0500

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 41997	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 7/13/2009
Subject: Re: Amber from Alaska

Been liking gmail so far since I switcheds over. I thought that yahoo would keep my email acct until oct when I had it paid till but I guess not lol. Amber On Jul 13, 2009 8:29 AM, "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@...> wrote: It does. I just used that other one since I had it in my Outlook Contacts info for you. I'm updating Outlook now. I mainly wanted to alert you in case you did not know that account was bouncing back. BTW... welcome to Gmail. It's different than Yahoo and other freemail in that it uses "Labels" instead of folders, which is nice as you can attach several labels to an email whereas in the old day, if you wanted to sort an email into multiple folders, you would have to manually put a copy into each folder. If you need any help with the intricacies of Gmail, email me off-list or there is a BIG Gmail Google Group for more advanced help. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in ab... -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On... amber@... <amber%40rose-fields.com> <amber%40rose-fields.com> Message will be retried for 1 more day(s) Technical details of temporary failure: DNS Error: Coul... Return-Path: <goldlenny@... <goldlenny%40gmail.com> <goldlenny% 40gmail.com>> Received: from YOUR by mx.google.com with ESMTPS id (version=SSLv3 cipher=RC4-MD5); Sat, 11 Jul 200... From: "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <goldlenny@... <goldlenny%40gmail.com><goldlenny% 40gmail.com>> To: "'Amber Berglund'" <amber@... <amber%40rose-fields.com><amber% 40rose-fields.com>> References: <4A583034.3050906@... <4A583034.3050906%40gmail.com><4A583034.3050906% 40gmail.com>> Subject: OFF-LIST - RE: [AquaticLife] Gosh, I forgot to ask something important, LOL Date: Sat, 11 ... [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 41998	From: Shirley Reichard	Date: 7/13/2009
Subject: Re: catfish

Oh, sorry; they're corys. They're less than 1.5" but one of them does appear to have gotten bigger in bulk, not length. --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@...> wrote: > > What kind of albino catfish? There are albino variants of (probably) every > species of catfish. Without knowing the species, it's hard to say whether > your two are the kind that stay small or if they are supposed to grow to 6 > feet long... or longer. > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right > side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) > > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On > Behalf Of Shirley Reichard > Sent: Sunday, July 12, 2009 12:55 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Subject: [AquaticLife] re: catfish > > I have two albino cats in a 20-gal long (with platys). I've had them for > about six months and they're doing fine. > > Shirley > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Lisa" <lisa_lawless2004@> wrote: > > > > I quite love catfish. > > Is there any species i can have in my 22 gal as a sole occupent, or as a > pair? > > > > Thanks > > Lisa > > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 41999	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 7/13/2009
Subject: Re: catfish

Yeah they can gert nice and chubby once they reach maturity. I have a couple fat ones that I think are the girls myself but not sure. Amber On Jul 13, 2009 1:26 PM, "Shirley Reichard" <shrlycat@...> wrote: Oh, sorry; they're corys. They're less than 1.5" but one of them does appear to have gotten bigger in bulk, not length. --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@...> wrote: > > What kind o... [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 42000	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 7/13/2009
Subject: Re: Amber from Alaska

I feel jipped by yahoo honestly, I was paying for their premium domain service which was a yearly amount, and when I discontinued the service it stated that I would still have my domain until October when my payment ran out, but I guess I don't get to keep my email account, bah :P Stupid yahoo, LOL. I do like the "labels" feature in Gmail though, it's nifty. Just wish my G1 phone listed the emails better even with label's it's weird how it lists all the emails. Oh well, next patch maybe ;) Amber Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > > > It does. I just used that other one since I had it in my Outlook Contacts > info for you. I'm updating Outlook now. I mainly wanted to alert you in > case you did not know that account was bouncing back. > > BTW... welcome to Gmail. It's different than Yahoo and other freemail in > that it uses "Labels" instead of folders, which is nice as you can attach > several labels to an email whereas in the old day, if you wanted to > sort an > email into multiple folders, you would have to manually put a copy > into each > folder. If you need any help with the intricacies of Gmail, email me > off-list or there is a BIG Gmail Google Group for more advanced help. > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right > side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On > Behalf Of Amber Berglund > Sent: Monday, July 13, 2009 10:58 AM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Amber from Alaska > > Sorry I swapped email accounts yahoo was charging too much. Its > arberglund@... <mailto:arberglund%40gmail.com> now... thought it > showed at the top of the thread. Lol > > Amber > > On Jul 13, 2009 7:36 AM, "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@... > <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com>> > wrote: > > Amber, > > I sent a reply to you off-list (when you first started the thread with Pam > about your fish order... lol) but it bounced back to me from your > rose-fields.com account. Below my sig is the message that I got back. I > deleted some of the header information. > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> (Links to any articles referenced > in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under > Labels and > also under Archives by Year, Month) > > This is an automatically generated Delivery Status Notification > > THIS IS A WARNING MESSAGE ONLY. > > YOU DO NOT NEED TO RESEND YOUR MESSAGE. > > Delivery to the following recipient has been delayed: > > amber@... <mailto:amber%40rose-fields.com> > <amber%40rose-fields.com> > > Message will be retried for 1 more day(s) > > Technical details of temporary failure: > DNS Error: Could not contact DNS servers > > ----- Message header follows ----- > > Received: by 10.100.96.4 with SMTP id > Sat, 11 Jul 2009 06:21:13 -0700 (PDT) > Return-Path: <goldlenny@... <mailto:goldlenny%40gmail.com> > <goldlenny%40gmail.com>> > Received: from YOUR > by mx.google.com with ESMTPS id > (version=SSLv3 cipher=RC4-MD5); > Sat, 11 Jul 2009 06:21:13 -0700 (PDT) > From: "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <goldlenny@... > <mailto:goldlenny%40gmail.com> <goldlenny%40gmail.com>> > To: "'Amber Berglund'" <amber@... > <mailto:amber%40rose-fields.com> <amber%40rose-fields.com>> > References: <4A583034.3050906@... > <mailto:4A583034.3050906%40gmail.com> <4A583034.3050906%40gmail.com>> > Subject: OFF-LIST - RE: [AquaticLife] Gosh, I forgot to ask something > important, LOL > Date: Sat, 11 Jul 2009 08:21:05 -0500 > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 42001	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 7/13/2009
Subject: Re: Tank Maintenance(Platties)

Evil Lenny ;) LOL Now I'm curious to see just what platties arrive in the box ;) LOL Please let them not be orange, ROFL. Both of my coworkers said they should set up their fish tanks and take some of my platties off of my hands ;) hehe. I'll get rid of them somehow, even if the LFS won't take them for store credit. Amber Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > > > Pam, > > You should have made an intentional typo and called them "Plumtail" > instead > of "Plumetail". You know Amber would have fallen for "Plumtail"... > thinking > they had purple tails. LOL > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right > side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) > > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On > Behalf Of pam andress > Sent: Sunday, July 12, 2009 3:10 PM > To: aquaticlife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:aquaticlife%40yahoogroups.com> > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Tank Maintenance(Platties) > > Amber, > > Do you have any plume tail platties? I can put some of those in the box > tomorrow if you want. lol > > Pam > > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 42002	From: Raymond Wetzel	Date: 7/13/2009
Subject: Re: All angels died...

If this is the same batch of Angelfish which most of them died of Angelfish Virus, except for a lone one that lingered from it, only to die from it in a month's time as expected, the answer is NO unless you plan on adding more Angels; otherwise you don't need to do anything with the tank as this disease is species-specific and will not affect other community fish. You should test your water parameters though, to make sure the water will be conducive to to fish life. Ray --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "anallafamily.2001" <anallafamily.2001@...> wrote: > > I have a question ...........Now that all angels died if I wanted to put community fish in the tank, do I still have to drain tank and dissinfect everything? The reason I am asking is because I live in Ok. and I have to go buy the water i put in my tank from a bottle water place. My water from the fosit is to hard and ph is way to high. >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 42003	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 7/13/2009
Subject: Re: All angels died...

I think his whole problem was from not using his own tap water and buying his water. But this is my opinion, I do not know for sure. Amber Raymond Wetzel wrote: > > > If this is the same batch of Angelfish which most of them died of > Angelfish Virus, except for a lone one that lingered from it, only to > die from it in a month's time as expected, the answer is NO unless you > plan on adding more Angels; otherwise you don't need to do anything > with the tank as this disease is species-specific and will not affect > other community fish. You should test your water parameters though, to > make sure the water will be conducive to to fish life. Ray > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>, "anallafamily.2001" > <anallafamily.2001@...> wrote: > > > > I have a question ...........Now that all angels died if I wanted to > put community fish in the tank, do I still have to drain tank and > dissinfect everything? The reason I am asking is because I live in Ok. > and I have to go buy the water i put in my tank from a bottle water > place. My water from the fosit is to hard and ph is way to high. > > > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 42004	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 7/13/2009
Subject: Re: Tank Maintenance

Ray, I'll see if I can come up with something tonight to post over there. For those who may not know, and may have an interest, Ray and I are talking about a Yahoo list called Aquarium Hobby Historical Society which is basically a bunch of older guys talking about what it was like back in the day. There are some rather illustrious members over there, one of the members is the last living person in the hobby to have worked directly with William T. Innes, and there are others with sterling pedigrees in the hobby as well. Some of the discussions are like the old "You are There" series on TV (though that may be too old a reference for many here). You can learn a lot about the hobby by hanging out over there. \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Raymond Wetzel Sent: Monday, July 13, 2009 9:38 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Tank Maintenance \\Steve//, The time scale you're outlining seems to be about right. I doubt if we would find much (if any) mention of the nitrogen cycle until the 1970's, and that was probably first brought to the hobby's attention in the marine sector. I don't recall having read anything at all about it even in the 1960's. As I mentioned, I believe we came to learn about possible ammonia build up in the '60's, but even then that part's a little vague -- although we were encouraged by then to do weekly PWC's (but then, I can't remember exacty why). I don't recall freshwater ammonia test kits back in those years as a regular thing, expect perhaps in lab quality kits like LaMotte which were also advertised for the hobby if one wanted to spend that much. I DO know that I knew very little about the consequences of ammonia when coupled with pH. I used to raise lots of young Oscars and sell them to the wholesalers. I remember one time having delivered an order of several hundred Oscars to one of my wholesale customers, when I hadn't done a PWC on them prior to delivering them, that they slowly started to "fold up" after acclimating them to their tanks --their water had a fairly high pH of about 7.8. Apparently, and unknown to me at the time, my water had built up ammonia but remained non-toxic (ammonium) as the pH had dropped below neutral. When releasing these fish (and their water) into the customer's pH 7.8 water, whatever ammonium was in my water suddenly became toxic ammonia in his tanks. Never did figure that one out until information came forth on the topic. Couldn't say I learned from it at the time, as there was no knowledge of this subject published yet, so it remained a mystery for a while, and as far as releasing their water, it was the customer who did this as normal procedure with all his shipments. Apparently, he had no way of knowing about the possible consequences of ammonia/pH either, and just trusted that my fish were disease-free (he never had reason to distrust my shipments in the past). Certainly agree on the cycle information needing to be publicized more widely at present. For one thing, too many noobies feel they don't need to read up on fish keeping as they probably feel you just dump the fish in a tankful of water, feed (overfeed?) and watch them. I think this knowledge should start at the local shops level; after all, they would only stand to benefit as they'd have customers who would stay in the hobby buying more stuff from them. The short-sighted attitude of being able to keep selling the noobies replacement fish doesn't last too long when the customer drops out. That's one thing I distinctly remember years ago, even back in the '50's -- LFS's always had several piles of literature/brochures on the counter as freebies from various manufacturers like Long-Life and Metaframe, etc., even though they didn't contain anything on the cycle back then. They should supply this today with every tank purchase -- not just as an optional counter pick-up by the shop goers, but with making sure to include it with the tank purchase, and even drawing it to the attention of their customers not specifically buying a tank. Great idea, moving this topic over to the AHHS. I'm sure it would stir up some discussion, and someone's bound to know more on when the cycle concept was introduced. I'd like to see some of their replies. Ray --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Steve Szabo" <steve@...> wrote: > > Looking through literature cited in Spotte's _Fish and Invertebrate Culture, Second Edition_ (1979), it appears that while the different nitrogenous compounds were known since at least the '50's, no real serious work toward discovering how they fit together seems to appear until the mid-60's. in the scientific literature. Without examining the sources, this would lead me to believe that the nitrogen cycle was not truly found and studied until then. Once science had it, it would then slowly filter down to the hobbyist level, so, probably, if you were looking in hobbyist literature, you probably would not find any mention of it prior to the early '70's. Once it had appeared, it would take some time to really start to be understood and used by hobbyists, however, for the number of questions we have here, it is evident that more work needs to be done to disseminate the information so that even the noob's are made aware of it, if not through reading, then via the local shops where they buy their equipment and fish. Probably a pipe dream though. > > Ray, maybe you and I should move further discussion of this over to AHHS. Some of those guys should know the history of this in the hobby. > > \\Steve// > > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of bill 1433 > Sent: Sunday, July 12, 2009 7:55 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: Tank Maintenance > > > Hey Ray!  Same as a previous return today at \\Steve//!!!!! > > Thanks for the memories! This was how I started, or should I say my Mom did.. She started in the hobby with the neighbor next door and it just a while I was into it myself. > > As I can recall though, there was work being done in the hobby for > the nitrogen cycle, only it was not the Freshwater Team doing it. As I recall, any mention of it in the magazines fell to our brothers on the Saltwater Team. Although much has, and is still be written about Biological and the Nitrogen cycles and their affects on aquariums, I truly believe that is was from this group that many of the idea's that we seem to hold so dear today came from. > > ol' bill >   > > --- On Sun, 7/12/09, Raymond Wetzel <sevenspringss@...> wrote: > > > From: Raymond Wetzel <sevenspringss@...> > > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Tank Maintenance > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > Date: Sunday, July 12, 2009, 4:44 PM > > \\Steve//,  I believe you're > > 100% right -- there was no work done on the nitrogen cycle > > until the 1970's as far as I know.  Just as you're > > saying though, we knew enough (for whatever reason) to do > > weekly PWC's by the '60's.  I'm inclined to believe > > this may have been due because we realized ammonia could > > build up, even if we didn't yet know about the cycle -- and > > I think we may have learned about growth-inhibiting hormones > > building up.  > > > > During my formative years in the tropical fish hobby from > > the early 1950's on, and into the '60's, I never read a > > thing on the nitrogen cycle -- and I made sure to buy a copy > > of Dr. Innes' "The Aquarium" magazine each and every > > month.  This was a subject that nobody knew about -- or > > if it was known about in public aquariums perhaps (and that > > remains unknown), the topic was never discussed in the hobby > > and it seems as though even those publishers and their > > authors of the hobby magazines at the time knew nothing > > about it; and some of those magazines (such as "Aquarium > > Journal") had leading ichthyologists of the day writing in > > their publications -- who are still well respected until > > this day as leaders in this field. > > > > Before having tropical fish, I was given goldfish in an 8 > > gallon homemade metal-framed tank back in the late > > 1940's.  At the time, I was instructed by my parents to > > "clean" them every month by removing the fish, plants and > > snails to a small bowl, removing all the water in the tank > > and thoroughly washing the gravel.  Then, the tank was > > set up again with "spankin' clean" gravel and all new water > > into which the fish were placed back into -- good for > > another month.  This was the same maintenance procedure > > that my mother used 20 years before that when my grandmother > > had goldfish during the 1920's as that was the normal, > > recognized way of taking care of goldfish (and no > > dechlorinator was ever used). > > > > Now, as at least we all knew back then, tropical fish were > > not as hardy as goldfish and needed different care, but too, > > by then it was "realized" even back during the 1930's that > > there was nothing better for your tropical fish than "old > > water," which was prized. Just as you're saying, once we set > > up a tank it was never disturbed -- and our goal was to > > create a "balanced aquarium."  This concept was even > > taught in biology books of that day, in high school, and > > certainly in the hobby magazines and books.  We didn't > > do regular weekly PWC's as that would mean we'd be throwing > > out good aged water -- but we did have dip tubes to use for > > cleaning the gravel, which just entailed getting the mulm > > (fish waste, etc.) off of the gravel's surface, removing > > dead leaves off the bottom, etc.  A certain amount of > > this mulm was also prized as it meant for good plant > > fertilizer.  The plants grew and the fish remained > > healthy.  We were careful not to overfeed, and to not > > allow excess food falling to the substrate as we knew the > > consequences of foul gravel building up over time.  > > > > Considering this consequence, a "gravel cleaning" was done > > about every six months, by using a planting stick to stir up > > the top layer of the gravel after which about a 25% PWC was > > done to remove as much gunk as was practical, but this water > > change was not done with keeping regular maintenance in mind > > but only as a means of getting rid of this debris.  > > Depending on the fish we kept, and the hardness of our tap > > water, some of us cut our tap water with rain or snow water > > as was written about in the "latest" literature of the > > time.  Topping off with tap water was done between > > these time, to replace evaporation -- full hoods were never > > especially promoted.  As you said though, tanks were > > never completely broken down, unless a new set up was > > planned.  We did use filters, which obviously must have > > given us our nitrogen cycles even though we never knew it, > > but power filters were not invented yet until 1955 -- and > > even then -- no one could afford them until the prices on > > them started to come down several years later (I didn't have > > power filters until at least 1960).  So, until then, > > ALL filters were air driven.  Oddly enough, such tanks > > flourished after being set up like this for years.  We > > never heard of a "pH crash" either (and NEVER lost fish as a > > result of the possibility). > > > > When first setting up a new tank and even for some time > > afterwards, we NEVER had "new-tank-syndrome."  As for > > stocking the tanks, we NEVER knew to wait 6 weeks -- we > > ALWAYS stocked the tanks within a day or two (if not, the > > same day) of first setting it up -- and we NEVER lost a fish > > due to ammonia or nitrite poisoning as a result of a tank > > not be cycled.  Never even had a fish get sick as a > > result of excess nitrate, surprisingly enough.  I guess > > the fish never knew about the nitrogen cycle either, so > > there was no reason to even be cautious of it.  They > > (the fish) must have read the same books and magazines as we > > did, which was why we never knew to be concerned about the > > cycle, luckily.  As they say -- "What you don't know, > > won't hurt you."  We didn't know about the cycle, and > > it never hurt us, nor ever killed a fish; it was if the > > nitrogen cycle never existed back then as far as being > > something needed to keep fish.  Certainly we never > > bothered with it, not having known about it.  We did > > always use a dechlorinator though. > > > > Getting back to "fortnight," Lenny are you sure you didn't > > just do another Google on Wikipedia for that (LOL)?  > > Ray > > > > > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 42005	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 7/13/2009
Subject: Re: Tank Maintenance

What? No parsec? A parsec is a unit of measure for interstellar space that is equal to 3.26 light-years and is the distance to an object having a parallax of one second as seen from points separated by one astronomical unit. \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Raymond Wetzel Sent: Monday, July 13, 2009 10:34 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Tank Maintenance Okay, I'll give you that one (LOL). Right, there are still people who don't know what Lincoln was referring to in his Gettysburg address when he said "Four score and seven years ago . . . " (a score meaning 20 years). But, do you know what "flock" means in the context of time? A flock is 2 score (40 years); I guess Lincoln could have said "Two flock and seven years ago . . ." (LOL). BTW, did you know these other time measurements: Atomus = "a twinkling of the eye" - 1/376 minute (160 milliseconds). Blink = 0.864 second Jerk = 0.3048 m/sec3 Jiffy = (in computer engineering) - 0.01 second, or - 33.3564 picoseconds. Moment = 1/40 hour, or 1.5 minutes Wanted to mention a few measures of distance here as well, which not too many people know about, like "Hecter" (Hectare), "Rod" and "Fathom." My "all-time" favorite is one I'm sure you're well aware of, with living on the Big Muddy. We both know that Samuel Clemens' pen name was "Mark Twain" but I'm sure not very many people know what this term refers to. "Twain" was an old term for "Two" -- on the Mississippi, the riverboats had to take new soundings to make a new chart whenever the channel would change after a big flood, and they used a rope (with weight) that had knots tied in it at every Fathom (Fathom = 6 Feet). They had to make sure that when they took soundings, that these ropes would show at least 12 Feet (2 Fathoms) as that was the draught of the riverboats -- hence, "Mark Twain" or Two Marks (Two Knots). Ray --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@...> wrote: > > "Getting back to "fortnight," Lenny are you sure you didn't just do another > Google on Wikipedia for that (LOL)? Ray" > > Nope... I knew what "fortnight" was and "four score and seven years" too. > > Of course, when my brother and I would turn our beds into "forts", that > could be called "fortnight" too. ;-) > > Of course, whoever stuck their head out from under the sheet lost the > "Turtle Game". And I'm not pulling your finger... ooops.. I meant leg, with > that one either! ;-) > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right > side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On > Behalf Of Raymond Wetzel > Sent: Sunday, July 12, 2009 3:44 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Tank Maintenance > > \\Steve//, I believe you're 100% right -- there was no work done on the > nitrogen cycle until the 1970's as far as I know. Just as you're saying > though, we knew enough (for whatever reason) to do weekly PWC's by the > '60's. I'm inclined to believe this may have been due because we realized > ammonia could build up, even if we didn't yet know about the cycle -- and I > think we may have learned about growth-inhibiting hormones building up. > > During my formative years in the tropical fish hobby from the early 1950's > on, and into the '60's, I never read a thing on the nitrogen cycle -- and I > made sure to buy a copy of Dr. Innes' "The Aquarium" magazine each and every > month. This was a subject that nobody knew about -- or if it was known > about in public aquariums perhaps (and that remains unknown), the topic was > never discussed in the hobby and it seems as though even those publishers > and their authors of the hobby magazines at the time knew nothing about it; > and some of those magazines (such as "Aquarium Journal") had leading > ichthyologists of the day writing in their publications -- who are still > well respected until this day as leaders in this field. > > Before having tropical fish, I was given goldfish in an 8 gallon homemade > metal-framed tank back in the late 1940's. At the time, I was instructed by > my parents to "clean" them every month by removing the fish, plants and > snails to a small bowl, removing all the water in the tank and thoroughly > washing the gravel. Then, the tank was set up again with "spankin' clean" > gravel and all new water into which the fish were placed back into -- good > for another month. This was the same maintenance procedure that my mother > used 20 years before that when my grandmother had goldfish during the 1920's > as that was the normal, recognized way of taking care of goldfish (and no > dechlorinator was ever used). > > Now, as at least we all knew back then, tropical fish were not as hardy as > goldfish and needed different care, but too, by then it was "realized" even > back during the 1930's that there was nothing better for your tropical fish > than "old water," which was prized. Just as you're saying, once we set up a > tank it was never disturbed -- and our goal was to create a "balanced > aquarium." This concept was even taught in biology books of that day, in > high school, and certainly in the hobby magazines and books. We didn't do > regular weekly PWC's as that would mean we'd be throwing out good aged water > -- but we did have dip tubes to use for cleaning the gravel, which just > entailed getting the mulm (fish waste, etc.) off of the gravel's surface, > removing dead leaves off the bottom, etc. A certain amount of this mulm was > also prized as it meant for good plant fertilizer. The plants grew and the > fish remained healthy. We were careful not to overfeed, and to not allow > excess food falling to the substrate as we knew the consequences of foul > gravel building up over time. > > Considering this consequence, a "gravel cleaning" was done about every six > months, by using a planting stick to stir up the top layer of the gravel > after which about a 25% PWC was done to remove as much gunk as was > practical, but this water change was not done with keeping regular > maintenance in mind but only as a means of getting rid of this debris. > Depending on the fish we kept, and the hardness of our tap water, some of us > cut our tap water with rain or snow water as was written about in the > "latest" literature of the time. Topping off with tap water was done > between these time, to replace evaporation -- full hoods were never > especially promoted. As you said though, tanks were never completely broken > down, unless a new set up was planned. We did use filters, which obviously > must have given us our nitrogen cycles even though we never knew it, but > power filters were not invented yet until 1955 -- and even then -- no one > could afford them until the prices on them started to come down several > years later (I didn't have power filters until at least 1960). So, until > then, ALL filters were air driven. Oddly enough, such tanks flourished > after being set up like this for years. We never heard of a "pH crash" > either (and NEVER lost fish as a result of the possibility). > > When first setting up a new tank and even for some time afterwards, we NEVER > had "new-tank-syndrome." As for stocking the tanks, we NEVER knew to wait 6 > weeks -- we ALWAYS stocked the tanks within a day or two (if not, the same > day) of first setting it up -- and we NEVER lost a fish due to ammonia or > nitrite poisoning as a result of a tank not be cycled. Never even had a > fish get sick as a result of excess nitrate, surprisingly enough. I guess > the fish never knew about the nitrogen cycle either, so there was no reason > to even be cautious of it. They (the fish) must have read the same books > and magazines as we did, which was why we never knew to be concerned about > the cycle, luckily. As they say -- "What you don't know, won't hurt you." > We didn't know about the cycle, and it never hurt us, nor ever killed a > fish; it was if the nitrogen cycle never existed back then as far as being > something needed to keep fish. Certainly we never bothered with it, not > having known about it. We did always use a dechlorinator though. > > Getting back to "fortnight," Lenny are you sure you didn't just do another > Google on Wikipedia for that (LOL)? Ray > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Steve Szabo" <steve@> wrote: > > > > As for water changes, I can remember in the early 60's trying to > > remember doing weekly water changes in my tank and being chided for > > forgetting (hey, I was a kid--there were a lot of important things to > > tend to, like bike riding in the warm weather, sliding in the cold, > > playing basketball and baseball, and generally trying to be out of the > > house more than I was in). In the later 60's the memory is a bit fuzzy. > > I seem to remember a lot of mud and rain and good music at some place > > in NY, Wells Street in Chicago, Rolling Stones, Cream, Vanilla Fudge, > > Frigid Pink, Pink Floyd, going to a prom in jeans and tails with > > flowers in my hair, and some other things best left unsaid in mixed > company. > > > > Back then, no one knew of the nitrogen cycle. I do not think any real > > work on the topic was done until the 70's (is that correct Ray?) and > > it did take a while for the word to get out. > > > > The only times I recall breaking down tanks was to move them, or to > > completely re-do them with new fish and plants. The mythical beast > > back then was the "balanced aquarium" where a combination of fish, > > plants, and filtration would establish a "balance" that would maintain > > the fish and aquarium in good condition, and, perhaps, even allow for > breeding. > > What, it seems, this really was that we had established a cycle in > > such a tank, though we did not know or understand it at the time. > > Tearing down a tank would disrupt this (as we obviously know today) > > and so was not done unless needed. A benign neglect was the watchword of > the day. > > > > \\Steve// > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] > > On Behalf Of Lenny V. aka GoldLenny > > Sent: Sunday, July 12, 2009 10:22 AM > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Tank Maintenance > > > > How long is a fortnight? Just kidding... I know it's 14 days but > > fortnight isn't used very often any longer up here. Is it still a > > common term down under? > > > > While many of us preach and practice doing PWC's, gravel vacuuming and > > filter maintenance at least once a week, if the bioload on a tank is > > small, then going two weeks could be OK. > > > > It really depends on the bioload of the tank and how long you think > > it's OK for the fish to be stuck in a tank full of fish poop and pee? > > In the "old days" (you know... like when Ray and Bill and \\Steve// > > started keeping fish <BG>), it was common to do tank maintenance once > > a month and many instructional type books had folks completely > > breaking down their tanks on a monthly basis or every few months. Of > > course, most folks back then didn't know how the nitrogen cycle worked > > in aquaria and how all of the rest of the tanks microbiological > > ecology affected the water quality and why it WAS NOT a good thing to > > completely break down the tank like that. > > > > Further, while fish pool comes out reasonably solid, after a short > > while in the tank, it starts to break down. Once it breaks down, it > > dilutes into the water column so at that point the fish are now > > swimming around in diluted diarrhea. I know... DISGUSTING... but it's > > true. By doing weekly gravel vacuums, you are getting most of the > > fish poop up while it's still solid and down on the bottom After a > > week, you are forcing the fish to swim around in their liquefied poo. > > This is why I preach and practice doing weekly (or more frequent) tank > > and filter maintenance. > > > > Do we all slip up sometimes... yep, absolutely, guilty-as-charged... > > but if we decide to start doing tank maintenance every two weeks and > > then we slip up, then it's three weeks or four weeks before tank > > maintenance gets done so the fish are forced to live and breath their > > own liquefied fish poo for an even longer period of time. > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles > > referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically > > under Labels and also under Archives by Year, > > Month) > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] > > On > > Behalf Of Lisa > > Sent: Sunday, July 12, 2009 5:43 AM > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > Subject: [AquaticLife] Tank Maintenance > > > > I was just wondering, is it absolutly neccecery to do s gravel vac as > > well as a pwc each week? or could i get away with just doing weekily > > pwc's and a GV every fortnight > > > > Thanks > > Lisa > ------------------------------------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the home page. Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com to receive the digest, which includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com for the No E-Mail option where you will still be able to read messages on the group and post replies. Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com to receive individual e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 42006	From: Joellen & Kevin Analla	Date: 7/13/2009
Subject: Re: All angels died...

Yes this is the same batch of angels the last 2 died about two weeks ago and the tank has just been filtering with nothing in it. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 42007	From: pam andress	Date: 7/13/2009
Subject: Re: Tank Maintenance(Platties)

I thought you said you WANTED orange. Oh No! Pam To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com From: arberglund@... Date: Mon, 13 Jul 2009 15:06:18 -0800 Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Tank Maintenance(Platties) Evil Lenny ;) LOL Now I'm curious to see just what platties arrive in the box ;) LOL Please let them not be orange, ROFL. Both of my coworkers said they should set up their fish tanks and take some of my platties off of my hands ;) hehe. I'll get rid of them somehow, even if the LFS won't take them for store credit. Amber Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > > > Pam, > > You should have made an intentional typo and called them "Plumtail" > instead > of "Plumetail". You know Amber would have fallen for "Plumtail"... > thinking > they had purple tails. LOL > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right > side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) > > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On > Behalf Of pam andress > Sent: Sunday, July 12, 2009 3:10 PM > To: aquaticlife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:aquaticlife%40yahoogroups.com> > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Tank Maintenance(Platties) > > Amber, > > Do you have any plume tail platties? I can put some of those in the box > tomorrow if you want. lol > > Pam > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 42008	From: Donna Ransome	Date: 7/13/2009
Subject: Re: All angels died...

If there has been nothing in it for 2 weeks your bacteria have all likely died of starvation. _____ From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Joellen & Kevin Analla Sent: Monday, July 13, 2009 8:36 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: All angels died... Yes this is the same batch of angels the last 2 died about two weeks ago and the tank has just been filtering with nothing in it. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 42009	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 7/13/2009
Subject: Re: All angels died...

Actually, your hard water with high pH may be ideal for any number of nice fish. Many livebearers like water with a high pH and hard. Then there are the rift lake cichlids. Just only two groups that come to mind. Yes, since you are not sure why your angels passed, I'd advise tearing down the tank, disposing of the substrate, and disinfecting everything else with a good bleach solution. It is a situation where you would want to be safe rather than sorry. While you are at it get a baseline test on your tap water--draw some water from your tap and take pH, hardness, ammonia, nitrate and nitrite readings from it. Let the water not used for testing sit for 24 hours and test again. Let it sit for another 24 hours and test. Then you can report your findings back here. Meanwhile, do some reading about fish that will do well in a high pH environment and start preparing a list of fish you may find interesting. Once you have that list, you can start paring it down based on criteria like the size of your tank, what you really like, compatibility with others, both of their own kind and other fish, and what may be available to you. You can take some time doing this. You'll want to let the tanks sit empty for a couple of days to help dissipate the bleach, even with good rinsing. \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of anallafamily.2001 Sent: Monday, July 13, 2009 10:03 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] All angels died... I have a question ...........Now that all angels died if I wanted to put community fish in the tank, do I still have to drain tank and dissinfect everything? The reason I am asking is because I live in Ok. and I have to go buy the water i put in my tank from a bottle water place. My water from the fosit is to hard and ph is way to high.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 42010	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 7/13/2009
Subject: Re: Tank Maintenance(Platties)

LOL, bad Pam ;) Either way it's fine. I'll throw 'em in my community tank upstairs instead of with all the other platties if they're orange ;) hehe. I've got enough orange in my 125 gallon tank to celebrate Halloween already, now I just need some black fish ;) LOL. Amber pam andress wrote: > > > > I thought you said you WANTED orange. Oh No! > > Pam > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > From: arberglund@... <mailto:arberglund%40gmail.com> > Date: Mon, 13 Jul 2009 15:06:18 -0800 > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Tank Maintenance(Platties) > > Evil Lenny ;) LOL > Now I'm curious to see just what platties arrive in the box ;) LOL > Please let them not be orange, ROFL. > Both of my coworkers said they should set up their fish tanks and take > some of my platties off of my hands ;) hehe. > I'll get rid of them somehow, even if the LFS won't take them for store > credit. > > Amber > > Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > > > > > > Pam, > > > > You should have made an intentional typo and called them "Plumtail" > > instead > > of "Plumetail". You know Amber would have fallen for "Plumtail"... > > thinking > > they had purple tails. LOL > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>> > > (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right > > side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, > Month) > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On > > Behalf Of pam andress > > Sent: Sunday, July 12, 2009 3:10 PM > > To: aquaticlife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:aquaticlife%40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:aquaticlife%40yahoogroups.com> > > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Tank Maintenance(Platties) > > > > Amber, > > > > Do you have any plume tail platties? I can put some of those in the box > > tomorrow if you want. lol > > > > Pam > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 42011	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 7/13/2009
Subject: Re: All angels died...

Why can't he bleach the substrate too? Just curious. Amber Steve Szabo wrote: > > > Actually, your hard water with high pH may be ideal for any number of > nice fish. Many livebearers like water with a high pH and hard. Then > there are the rift lake cichlids. Just only two groups that come to > mind. > > Yes, since you are not sure why your angels passed, I'd advise tearing > down the tank, disposing of the substrate, and disinfecting everything > else with a good bleach solution. It is a situation where you would want > to be safe rather than sorry. > > While you are at it get a baseline test on your tap water--draw some > water from your tap and take pH, hardness, ammonia, nitrate and nitrite > readings from it. Let the water not used for testing sit for 24 hours > and test again. Let it sit for another 24 hours and test. Then you can > report your findings back here. > > Meanwhile, do some reading about fish that will do well in a high pH > environment and start preparing a list of fish you may find interesting. > Once you have that list, you can start paring it down based on criteria > like the size of your tank, what you really like, compatibility with > others, both of their own kind and other fish, and what may be available > to you. > > You can take some time doing this. You'll want to let the tanks sit > empty for a couple of days to help dissipate the bleach, even with good > rinsing. > > \\Steve// > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] > On Behalf Of anallafamily.2001 > Sent: Monday, July 13, 2009 10:03 AM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Subject: [AquaticLife] All angels died... > > I have a question ...........Now that all angels died if I wanted to put > community fish in the tank, do I still have to drain tank and dissinfect > everything? The reason I am asking is because I live in Ok. and I have > to go buy the water i put in my tank from a bottle water place. My water > from the fosit is to hard and ph is way to high. > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 42012	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 7/13/2009
Subject: Help reading the GH and KH instructions for API

I'm really confused how to read the test chart, does anyone out there use the API KH and GH test kit regularly and understand how to read the drop's conversion? Amber

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 42013	From: Lisa Lawless	Date: 7/13/2009
Subject: (no subject)

Thanks Lenny   ____________________________________________________________________________________ Access Yahoo!7 Mail on your mobile. Anytime. Anywhere. Show me how: http://au.mobile.yahoo.com/mail [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 42014	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 7/13/2009
Subject: Re: All angels died...

Amber, The substrate has a tremendous surface area, jus from the multifaceted surface as well as having some porosity. It would be difficult to ensure that it was properly disinfected. Lenny is pretty quiet tonight. I think he may be quiet this week, saving up his energy for this New Orleans event on Saturday: http://www.nola.com/movies/index.ssf/2009/07/armed_with_foamcore_bats_th e_b.html http://tinyurl.com/nse5qh \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Amber Berglund Sent: Monday, July 13, 2009 10:32 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] All angels died... Why can't he bleach the substrate too? Just curious. Amber Steve Szabo wrote: > > > Actually, your hard water with high pH may be ideal for any number of > nice fish. Many livebearers like water with a high pH and hard. Then > there are the rift lake cichlids. Just only two groups that come to > mind. > > Yes, since you are not sure why your angels passed, I'd advise tearing > down the tank, disposing of the substrate, and disinfecting everything > else with a good bleach solution. It is a situation where you would want > to be safe rather than sorry. > > While you are at it get a baseline test on your tap water--draw some > water from your tap and take pH, hardness, ammonia, nitrate and nitrite > readings from it. Let the water not used for testing sit for 24 hours > and test again. Let it sit for another 24 hours and test. Then you can > report your findings back here. > > Meanwhile, do some reading about fish that will do well in a high pH > environment and start preparing a list of fish you may find interesting. > Once you have that list, you can start paring it down based on criteria > like the size of your tank, what you really like, compatibility with > others, both of their own kind and other fish, and what may be available > to you. > > You can take some time doing this. You'll want to let the tanks sit > empty for a couple of days to help dissipate the bleach, even with good > rinsing. > > \\Steve// > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] > On Behalf Of anallafamily.2001 > Sent: Monday, July 13, 2009 10:03 AM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Subject: [AquaticLife] All angels died... > > I have a question ...........Now that all angels died if I wanted to put > community fish in the tank, do I still have to drain tank and dissinfect > everything? The reason I am asking is because I live in Ok. and I have > to go buy the water i put in my tank from a bottle water place. My water > from the fosit is to hard and ph is way to high. > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 42015	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 7/13/2009
Subject: Re: All angels died...

Okay, thanks, I was wondering what made it different. Amber Steve Szabo wrote: > > > Amber, > > The substrate has a tremendous surface area, jus from the multifaceted > surface as well as having some porosity. It would be difficult to > ensure that it was properly disinfected. > > Lenny is pretty quiet tonight. I think he may be quiet this week, saving > up his energy for this New Orleans event on Saturday: > http://www.nola.com/movies/index.ssf/2009/07/armed_with_foamcore_bats_th > <http://www.nola.com/movies/index.ssf/2009/07/armed_with_foamcore_bats_th> > e_b.html > http://tinyurl.com/nse5qh <http://tinyurl.com/nse5qh> > > \\Steve// > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] > On Behalf Of Amber Berglund > Sent: Monday, July 13, 2009 10:32 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] All angels died... > > Why can't he bleach the substrate too? Just curious. > > Amber > > Steve Szabo wrote: > > > > > > Actually, your hard water with high pH may be ideal for any number of > > nice fish. Many livebearers like water with a high pH and hard. Then > > there are the rift lake cichlids. Just only two groups that come to > > mind. > > > > Yes, since you are not sure why your angels passed, I'd advise tearing > > down the tank, disposing of the substrate, and disinfecting everything > > else with a good bleach solution. It is a situation where you would > want > > to be safe rather than sorry. > > > > While you are at it get a baseline test on your tap water--draw some > > water from your tap and take pH, hardness, ammonia, nitrate and > nitrite > > readings from it. Let the water not used for testing sit for 24 hours > > and test again. Let it sit for another 24 hours and test. Then you can > > report your findings back here. > > > > Meanwhile, do some reading about fish that will do well in a high pH > > environment and start preparing a list of fish you may find > interesting. > > Once you have that list, you can start paring it down based on > criteria > > like the size of your tank, what you really like, compatibility with > > others, both of their own kind and other fish, and what may be > available > > to you. > > > > You can take some time doing this. You'll want to let the tanks sit > > empty for a couple of days to help dissipate the bleach, even with > good > > rinsing. > > > > \\Steve// > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] > > On Behalf Of anallafamily.2001 > > Sent: Monday, July 13, 2009 10:03 AM > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > Subject: [AquaticLife] All angels died... > > > > I have a question ...........Now that all angels died if I wanted to > put > > community fish in the tank, do I still have to drain tank and > dissinfect > > everything? The reason I am asking is because I live in Ok. and I have > > to go buy the water i put in my tank from a bottle water place. My > water > > from the fosit is to hard and ph is way to high. > > > > > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 42016	From: Dora Smith	Date: 7/13/2009
Subject: Re: Help reading the GH and KH instructions for API

Both tests are designed so that when you add the first solution the contents of hte tube change color, and you add drop by drop (can add multiple drops at first if you've an idea how many drops it will take), until the water changes to a different color. It's a titration method. I find that there's a drop's difference between when the color begins to change and when it's completely changed, but as long as you're consistent in your reading method, that ought not to make a big difference. Yours, Dora Smith Austin, TX tiggernut24@... ----- Original Message ----- From: "Amber Berglund" <arberglund@...> To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Monday, July 13, 2009 9:44 PM Subject: [AquaticLife] Help reading the GH and KH instructions for API I'm really confused how to read the test chart, does anyone out there use the API KH and GH test kit regularly and understand how to read the drop's conversion? Amber ------------------------------------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the home page. Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com to receive the digest, which includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com for the No E-Mail option where you will still be able to read messages on the group and post replies. Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com to receive individual e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 42017	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 7/13/2009
Subject: Re: Help reading the GH and KH instructions for API

I don't understand how to convert the drops counted to the ppm, their chart makes no sense to me. Amber Dora Smith wrote: > > > Both tests are designed so that when you add the first solution the > contents > of hte tube change color, and you add drop by drop (can add multiple > drops > at first if you've an idea how many drops it will take), until the water > changes to a different color. > > It's a titration method. > > I find that there's a drop's difference between when the color begins to > change and when it's completely changed, but as long as you're > consistent in > your reading method, that ought not to make a big difference. > > Yours, > Dora Smith > Austin, TX > tiggernut24@... <mailto:tiggernut24%40yahoo.com> > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Amber Berglund" <arberglund@... > <mailto:arberglund%40gmail.com>> > To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>> > Sent: Monday, July 13, 2009 9:44 PM > Subject: [AquaticLife] Help reading the GH and KH instructions for API > > I'm really confused how to read the test chart, does anyone out there > use the API KH and GH test kit regularly and understand how to read the > drop's conversion? > > Amber > > ------------------------------------ > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. > ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> > PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT > important to > the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the > SUBJECT > LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- > <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. > > If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of unsubscribing, > you > can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My Membership" on > the > home page. > > Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:aquaticlife-digest%40yahoogroups.com> to receive the digest, > which > includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email > > Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:aquaticlife-nomail%40yahoogroups.com> for the No E-Mail option > where > you will still be able to read messages on the group and post replies. > > Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:aquaticlife-normal%40yahoogroups.com> to receive individual > e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 42018	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 7/13/2009
Subject: Re: Tank Maintenance

And as George Santayana (NO \\Steve//, not Carlos Santana ... lol) once said, "Those who cannot remember the past are condemned to repeat it.", so unless you folks want to go back to heating your tanks with open fires under them... or more recently in history, one of them new-fangled incandescent light bulbs underneath them, you should join the AHHS Yahoo Group and learn of how things were done in the "olden days"... when Men were Men and Women told them what to do AND when and how to do it! You see... those who cannot remember the past are condemned to repeat it! OOH... Deja Vu! LOL I wish I had a segue to go into... but I don't.... this was just a random thought that popped into my weary head. Oh yeah... one other thing. Ray, ;-) Yes, I did have to Google to find the author of the original quote which is often mis-quoted as "Those who do not learn from (or ignore) history are doomed to repeat it" and other variations. http://en.wikiquote.org/wiki/George_Santayana http://answers.google.com/answers/threadview?id=495329 Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Steve Szabo Sent: Monday, July 13, 2009 7:00 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: Tank Maintenance Ray, I'll see if I can come up with something tonight to post over there. For those who may not know, and may have an interest, Ray and I are talking about a Yahoo list called Aquarium Hobby Historical Society which is basically a bunch of older guys talking about what it was like back in the day. There are some rather illustrious members over there, one of the members is the last living person in the hobby to have worked directly with William T. Innes, and there are others with sterling pedigrees in the hobby as well. Some of the discussions are like the old "You are There" series on TV (though that may be too old a reference for many here). You can learn a lot about the hobby by hanging out over there. \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Raymond Wetzel Sent: Monday, July 13, 2009 9:38 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Tank Maintenance \\Steve//, The time scale you're outlining seems to be about right. I doubt if we would find much (if any) mention of the nitrogen cycle until the 1970's, and that was probably first brought to the hobby's attention in the marine sector. I don't recall having read anything at all about it even in the 1960's. As I mentioned, I believe we came to learn about possible ammonia build up in the '60's, but even then that part's a little vague -- although we were encouraged by then to do weekly PWC's (but then, I can't remember exacty why). I don't recall freshwater ammonia test kits back in those years as a regular thing, expect perhaps in lab quality kits like LaMotte which were also advertised for the hobby if one wanted to spend that much. I DO know that I knew very little about the consequences of ammonia when coupled with pH. I used to raise lots of young Oscars and sell them to the wholesalers. I remember one time having delivered an order of several hundred Oscars to one of my wholesale customers, when I hadn't done a PWC on them prior to delivering them, that they slowly started to "fold up" after acclimating them to their tanks --their water had a fairly high pH of about 7.8. Apparently, and unknown to me at the time, my water had built up ammonia but remained non-toxic (ammonium) as the pH had dropped below neutral. When releasing these fish (and their water) into the customer's pH 7.8 water, whatever ammonium was in my water suddenly became toxic ammonia in his tanks. Never did figure that one out until information came forth on the topic. Couldn't say I learned from it at the time, as there was no knowledge of this subject published yet, so it remained a mystery for a while, and as far as releasing their water, it was the customer who did this as normal procedure with all his shipments. Apparently, he had no way of knowing about the possible consequences of ammonia/pH either, and just trusted that my fish were disease-free (he never had reason to distrust my shipments in the past). Certainly agree on the cycle information needing to be publicized more widely at present. For one thing, too many noobies feel they don't need to read up on fish keeping as they probably feel you just dump the fish in a tankful of water, feed (overfeed?) and watch them. I think this knowledge should start at the local shops level; after all, they would only stand to benefit as they'd have customers who would stay in the hobby buying more stuff from them. The short-sighted attitude of being able to keep selling the noobies replacement fish doesn't last too long when the customer drops out. That's one thing I distinctly remember years ago, even back in the '50's -- LFS's always had several piles of literature/brochures on the counter as freebies from various manufacturers like Long-Life and Metaframe, etc., even though they didn't contain anything on the cycle back then. They should supply this today with every tank purchase -- not just as an optional counter pick-up by the shop goers, but with making sure to include it with the tank purchase, and even drawing it to the attention of their customers not specifically buying a tank. Great idea, moving this topic over to the AHHS. I'm sure it would stir up some discussion, and someone's bound to know more on when the cycle concept was introduced. I'd like to see some of their replies. Ray --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Steve Szabo" <steve@...> wrote: > > Looking through literature cited in Spotte's _Fish and Invertebrate Culture, Second Edition_ (1979), it appears that while the different nitrogenous compounds were known since at least the '50's, no real serious work toward discovering how they fit together seems to appear until the mid-60's. in the scientific literature. Without examining the sources, this would lead me to believe that the nitrogen cycle was not truly found and studied until then. Once science had it, it would then slowly filter down to the hobbyist level, so, probably, if you were looking in hobbyist literature, you probably would not find any mention of it prior to the early '70's. Once it had appeared, it would take some time to really start to be understood and used by hobbyists, however, for the number of questions we have here, it is evident that more work needs to be done to disseminate the information so that even the noob's are made aware of it, if not through reading, then via the local shops where they buy their equipment and fish. Probably a pipe dream though. > > Ray, maybe you and I should move further discussion of this over to AHHS. Some of those guys should know the history of this in the hobby. > > \\Steve// > > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] > On Behalf Of bill 1433 > Sent: Sunday, July 12, 2009 7:55 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: Tank Maintenance > > > Hey Ray!  Same as a previous return today at \\Steve//!!!!! > > Thanks for the memories! This was how I started, or should I say my Mom did.. She started in the hobby with the neighbor next door and it just a while I was into it myself. > > As I can recall though, there was work being done in the hobby for the > nitrogen cycle, only it was not the Freshwater Team doing it. As I recall, any mention of it in the magazines fell to our brothers on the Saltwater Team. Although much has, and is still be written about Biological and the Nitrogen cycles and their affects on aquariums, I truly believe that is was from this group that many of the idea's that we seem to hold so dear today came from. > > ol' bill >   > > --- On Sun, 7/12/09, Raymond Wetzel <sevenspringss@...> wrote: > > > From: Raymond Wetzel <sevenspringss@...> > > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Tank Maintenance > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > Date: Sunday, July 12, 2009, 4:44 PM \\Steve//,  I believe you're > > 100% right -- there was no work done on the nitrogen cycle until the > > 1970's as far as I know.  Just as you're saying though, we knew > > enough (for whatever reason) to do weekly PWC's by the '60's.  I'm > > inclined to believe this may have been due because we realized > > ammonia could build up, even if we didn't yet know about the cycle > > -- and I think we may have learned about growth-inhibiting hormones > > building up. > > > > During my formative years in the tropical fish hobby from the early > > 1950's on, and into the '60's, I never read a thing on the nitrogen > > cycle -- and I made sure to buy a copy of Dr. Innes' "The Aquarium" > > magazine each and every month.  This was a subject that nobody knew > > about -- or if it was known about in public aquariums perhaps (and > > that remains unknown), the topic was never discussed in the hobby > > and it seems as though even those publishers and their authors of > > the hobby magazines at the time knew nothing about it; and some of > > those magazines (such as "Aquarium > > Journal") had leading ichthyologists of the day writing in their > > publications -- who are still well respected until this day as > > leaders in this field. > > > > Before having tropical fish, I was given goldfish in an 8 gallon > > homemade metal-framed tank back in the late 1940's.  At the time, I > > was instructed by my parents to "clean" them every month by removing > > the fish, plants and snails to a small bowl, removing all the water > > in the tank and thoroughly washing the gravel.  Then, the tank was > > set up again with "spankin' clean" gravel and all new water into > > which the fish were placed back into -- good for another month.  > > This was the same maintenance procedure that my mother used 20 years > > before that when my grandmother had goldfish during the 1920's as > > that was the normal, recognized way of taking care of goldfish (and > > no dechlorinator was ever used). > > > > Now, as at least we all knew back then, tropical fish were not as > > hardy as goldfish and needed different care, but too, by then it was > > "realized" even back during the 1930's that there was nothing better > > for your tropical fish than "old water," which was prized. Just as > > you're saying, once we set up a tank it was never disturbed -- and > > our goal was to create a "balanced aquarium."  This concept was even > > taught in biology books of that day, in high school, and certainly > > in the hobby magazines and books.  We didn't do regular weekly PWC's > > as that would mean we'd be throwing out good aged water -- but we > > did have dip tubes to use for cleaning the gravel, which just > > entailed getting the mulm (fish waste, etc.) off of the gravel's > > surface, removing dead leaves off the bottom, etc.  A certain amount > > of this mulm was also prized as it meant for good plant fertilizer.  > > The plants grew and the fish remained healthy.  We were careful not > > to overfeed, and to not allow excess food falling to the substrate > > as we knew the consequences of foul gravel building up over time. > > > > Considering this consequence, a "gravel cleaning" was done about > > every six months, by using a planting stick to stir up the top layer > > of the gravel after which about a 25% PWC was done to remove as much > > gunk as was practical, but this water change was not done with > > keeping regular maintenance in mind but only as a means of getting > > rid of this debris. > > Depending on the fish we kept, and the hardness of our tap water, > > some of us cut our tap water with rain or snow water as was written > > about in the "latest" literature of the time.  Topping off with tap > > water was done between these time, to replace evaporation -- full > > hoods were never especially promoted.  As you said though, tanks > > were never completely broken down, unless a new set up was planned.  > > We did use filters, which obviously must have given us our nitrogen > > cycles even though we never knew it, but power filters were not > > invented yet until 1955 -- and even then -- no one could afford them > > until the prices on them started to come down several years later (I > > didn't have power filters until at least 1960).  So, until then, ALL > > filters were air driven.  Oddly enough, such tanks flourished after > > being set up like this for years.  We never heard of a "pH crash" > > either (and NEVER lost fish as a result of the possibility). > > > > When first setting up a new tank and even for some time afterwards, > > we NEVER had "new-tank-syndrome."  As for stocking the tanks, we > > NEVER knew to wait 6 weeks -- we ALWAYS stocked the tanks within a > > day or two (if not, the same day) of first setting it up -- and we > > NEVER lost a fish due to ammonia or nitrite poisoning as a result of > > a tank not be cycled.  Never even had a fish get sick as a result of > > excess nitrate, surprisingly enough.  I guess the fish never knew > > about the nitrogen cycle either, so there was no reason to even be > > cautious of it.  They (the fish) must have read the same books and > > magazines as we did, which was why we never knew to be concerned > > about the cycle, luckily.  As they say -- "What you don't know, > > won't hurt you."  We didn't know about the cycle, and it never hurt > > us, nor ever killed a fish; it was if the nitrogen cycle never > > existed back then as far as being something needed to keep fish.  > > Certainly we never bothered with it, not having known about it.  We > > did always use a dechlorinator though. > > > > Getting back to "fortnight," Lenny are you sure you didn't just do > > another Google on Wikipedia for that (LOL)? > > Ray > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 42019	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 7/13/2009
Subject: Re: (unknown)

You're welcome... but for what? LOL There's nothing else in this thread. ;-) Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Lisa Lawless Sent: Monday, July 13, 2009 10:16 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] (unknown) Thanks Lenny   ____________________________________________________________________________ ________ Access Yahoo!7 Mail on your mobile. Anytime. Anywhere. Show me how: http://au.mobile.yahoo.com/mail [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 42020	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 7/13/2009
Subject: Re: All angels died...

I worked 12 hour days the past four days and only worked a partial day today and then came home and fell asleep for a few hours. Just woke up a lil while ago, and I've been replying since, trying to get caught up to this one. LOL As you can see from a few of my previous replies, I need to go back to sleep. LOL Amber, I agree with \\Steve// as far as bleaching the substrate. Further, when bleaching things, you should let them air-dry completely to allow any residual chlorine to evaporate. That would be more difficult with substrate. If I was going to try and save substrate, I would soak it in a brine salt solution for several days, then rinse a couple of times. Even if a little saltiness is left over, it will not cause harm to a filled up aquarium since the dilution level will then be so low. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Steve Szabo Sent: Monday, July 13, 2009 10:39 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] All angels died... Amber, The substrate has a tremendous surface area, jus from the multifaceted surface as well as having some porosity. It would be difficult to ensure that it was properly disinfected. Lenny is pretty quiet tonight. I think he may be quiet this week, saving up his energy for this New Orleans event on Saturday: http://www.nola.com/movies/index.ssf/2009/07/armed_with_foamcore_bats_th e_b.html http://tinyurl.com/nse5qh \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Amber Berglund Sent: Monday, July 13, 2009 10:32 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] All angels died... Why can't he bleach the substrate too? Just curious. Amber Steve Szabo wrote: > > > Actually, your hard water with high pH may be ideal for any number of > nice fish. Many livebearers like water with a high pH and hard. Then > there are the rift lake cichlids. Just only two groups that come to > mind. > > Yes, since you are not sure why your angels passed, I'd advise tearing > down the tank, disposing of the substrate, and disinfecting everything > else with a good bleach solution. It is a situation where you would want > to be safe rather than sorry. > > While you are at it get a baseline test on your tap water--draw some > water from your tap and take pH, hardness, ammonia, nitrate and nitrite > readings from it. Let the water not used for testing sit for 24 hours > and test again. Let it sit for another 24 hours and test. Then you can > report your findings back here. > > Meanwhile, do some reading about fish that will do well in a high pH > environment and start preparing a list of fish you may find interesting. > Once you have that list, you can start paring it down based on criteria > like the size of your tank, what you really like, compatibility with > others, both of their own kind and other fish, and what may be available > to you. > > You can take some time doing this. You'll want to let the tanks sit > empty for a couple of days to help dissipate the bleach, even with good > rinsing. > > \\Steve// > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] > On Behalf Of anallafamily.2001 > Sent: Monday, July 13, 2009 10:03 AM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Subject: [AquaticLife] All angels died... > > I have a question ...........Now that all angels died if I wanted to put > community fish in the tank, do I still have to drain tank and dissinfect > everything? The reason I am asking is because I live in Ok. and I have > to go buy the water i put in my tank from a bottle water place. My water > from the fosit is to hard and ph is way to high. > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 42021	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 7/13/2009
Subject: Re: Help reading the GH and KH instructions for API

Agreed. Include that last drop, that forces the complete color change, in the count of drops. Each drop is supposed to equal 1 dH (One degree of Hardness). Each dH is equal to 17.9ppm (or 18 for simplicity or even 20 for even more simplicity when multiplying the numbers out from dH to ppm). For example, if it takes 5 drops to make the full change, the water would have 5 dH (either GH-General Harness or KH-Carbonate Hardness). Multiply that 5 times 17.9=89.5ppm (or 5 x 18=90 or 5 x 20=100... all close enough in ppm to NOT matter). I guess if you were talking 100's of dH, then the fractional difference between 17.9 and 20 would add up to make a difference but not with most water being in the 0-20 dH range. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Dora Smith Sent: Monday, July 13, 2009 9:51 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Help reading the GH and KH instructions for API Both tests are designed so that when you add the first solution the contents of hte tube change color, and you add drop by drop (can add multiple drops at first if you've an idea how many drops it will take), until the water changes to a different color. It's a titration method. I find that there's a drop's difference between when the color begins to change and when it's completely changed, but as long as you're consistent in your reading method, that ought not to make a big difference. Yours, Dora Smith Austin, TX tiggernut24@... ----- Original Message ----- From: "Amber Berglund" <arberglund@...> To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Monday, July 13, 2009 9:44 PM Subject: [AquaticLife] Help reading the GH and KH instructions for API I'm really confused how to read the test chart, does anyone out there use the API KH and GH test kit regularly and understand how to read the drop's conversion? Amber

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 42022	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 7/13/2009
Subject: Re: Help reading the GH and KH instructions for API

See my reply from a minute ago. I must have ESP as I answered this when adding to Dora's reply. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Amber Berglund Sent: Monday, July 13, 2009 11:15 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Help reading the GH and KH instructions for API I don't understand how to convert the drops counted to the ppm, their chart makes no sense to me. Amber Dora Smith wrote: > > > Both tests are designed so that when you add the first solution the > contents of hte tube change color, and you add drop by drop (can add > multiple drops at first if you've an idea how many drops it will > take), until the water changes to a different color. > > It's a titration method. > > I find that there's a drop's difference between when the color begins > to change and when it's completely changed, but as long as you're > consistent in your reading method, that ought not to make a big > difference. > > Yours, > Dora Smith > Austin, TX > tiggernut24@... <mailto:tiggernut24%40yahoo.com> > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Amber Berglund" <arberglund@... > <mailto:arberglund%40gmail.com>> > To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>> > Sent: Monday, July 13, 2009 9:44 PM > Subject: [AquaticLife] Help reading the GH and KH instructions for API > > I'm really confused how to read the test chart, does anyone out there > use the API KH and GH test kit regularly and understand how to read > the drop's conversion? > > Amber

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 42023	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 7/13/2009
Subject: Re: Help reading the GH and KH instructions for API

Okay well my KH was 6 drops and my GH was 11 drops, I need to have a high amount for snails shells to not deteriorate from what I've read on applesnail.net forums but no one knows precisely what ppm you should have. the API chart says in the 100 range is good for invertibrates, so I suppose I should keep mine about where it is? or should I lower it some? The KH is where I want it, the GH is a tad high though... any suggestions? Amber Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > > > Agreed. Include that last drop, that forces the complete color change, in > the count of drops. Each drop is supposed to equal 1 dH (One degree of > Hardness). Each dH is equal to 17.9ppm (or 18 for simplicity or even > 20 for > even more simplicity when multiplying the numbers out from dH to ppm). For > example, if it takes 5 drops to make the full change, the water would > have 5 > dH (either GH-General Harness or KH-Carbonate Hardness). Multiply that 5 > times 17.9=89.5ppm (or 5 x 18=90 or 5 x 20=100... all close enough in > ppm to > NOT matter). I guess if you were talking 100's of dH, then the fractional > difference between 17.9 and 20 would add up to make a difference but not > with most water being in the 0-20 dH range. > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right > side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On > Behalf Of Dora Smith > Sent: Monday, July 13, 2009 9:51 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Help reading the GH and KH instructions for API > > Both tests are designed so that when you add the first solution the > contents > of hte tube change color, and you add drop by drop (can add multiple drops > at first if you've an idea how many drops it will take), until the water > changes to a different color. > > It's a titration method. > > I find that there's a drop's difference between when the color begins to > change and when it's completely changed, but as long as you're > consistent in > your reading method, that ought not to make a big difference. > > Yours, > Dora Smith > Austin, TX > tiggernut24@... <mailto:tiggernut24%40yahoo.com> > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Amber Berglund" <arberglund@... > <mailto:arberglund%40gmail.com>> > To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>> > Sent: Monday, July 13, 2009 9:44 PM > Subject: [AquaticLife] Help reading the GH and KH instructions for API > > I'm really confused how to read the test chart, does anyone out there > use the API KH and GH test kit regularly and understand how to read the > drop's conversion? > > Amber > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 42024	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 7/13/2009
Subject: Re: Help reading the GH and KH instructions for API

oh and sorry the chart says 140-200 ppm is good for invertebrates. So am I good? Amber Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > > > See my reply from a minute ago. I must have ESP as I answered this when > adding to Dora's reply. > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right > side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) > > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On > Behalf Of Amber Berglund > Sent: Monday, July 13, 2009 11:15 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Help reading the GH and KH instructions for API > > I don't understand how to convert the drops counted to the ppm, their > chart > makes no sense to me. > > Amber > > Dora Smith wrote: > > > > > > Both tests are designed so that when you add the first solution the > > contents of hte tube change color, and you add drop by drop (can add > > multiple drops at first if you've an idea how many drops it will > > take), until the water changes to a different color. > > > > It's a titration method. > > > > I find that there's a drop's difference between when the color begins > > to change and when it's completely changed, but as long as you're > > consistent in your reading method, that ought not to make a big > > difference. > > > > Yours, > > Dora Smith > > Austin, TX > > tiggernut24@... <mailto:tiggernut24%40yahoo.com> > <mailto:tiggernut24%40yahoo.com> > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: "Amber Berglund" <arberglund@... > <mailto:arberglund%40gmail.com> > > <mailto:arberglund%40gmail.com>> > > To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>> > > Sent: Monday, July 13, 2009 9:44 PM > > Subject: [AquaticLife] Help reading the GH and KH instructions for API > > > > I'm really confused how to read the test chart, does anyone out there > > use the API KH and GH test kit regularly and understand how to read > > the drop's conversion? > > > > Amber > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 42025	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 7/13/2009
Subject: Re: All angels died...

Oh.. I almost forgot. I clicked the link but never read the article before sending my reply. I haven't even been to one of the Big Easy Rollergirls events yet although I've been invited many times. One of the founders of the group is one of my customers but she rents out her property down here in the Garden District now and she lives out in Kalifornia now. She skates for one of the L.A. area rollergirl groups now. I also missed last years "Running of the Bulls - N'Awlins Style" and didn't even realize it was being held this (past) weekend, not next weekend... DANG.. I missed it again! If I had known, I might have blown off the job I've been doing for 12 hours a day the past four days. Instead of being exhausted right now, I'd be bruised up and recovering from Hurricanes and Lights Out (NO... not Katrina and power outages... Pat O'Brien's Hurricanes and their potent shot called Lights Out. LOL) Here's pics and videos of this years "Running of the Bulls - N'Awlins Style!!!" or as they call it "San Fermin in Nueva Orleans" http://www.nola.com/festivals/index.ssf/2009/07/photos_third_annual_running_ of.html I'm glad to see that \\Steve// is keeping up with events going on down here. My constant promotion of tourist events in N'Awlins, in my efforts to get this city back to greatness (since Katrina knocked us down a bit) seems to be working... at least on \\Steve//. LOL Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Steve Szabo Sent: Monday, July 13, 2009 10:39 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] All angels died... Amber, The substrate has a tremendous surface area, jus from the multifaceted surface as well as having some porosity. It would be difficult to ensure that it was properly disinfected. Lenny is pretty quiet tonight. I think he may be quiet this week, saving up his energy for this New Orleans event on Saturday: http://www.nola.com/movies/index.ssf/2009/07/armed_with_foamcore_bats_th e_b.html http://tinyurl.com/nse5qh \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Amber Berglund Sent: Monday, July 13, 2009 10:32 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] All angels died... Why can't he bleach the substrate too? Just curious. Amber Steve Szabo wrote: > > > Actually, your hard water with high pH may be ideal for any number of > nice fish. Many livebearers like water with a high pH and hard. Then > there are the rift lake cichlids. Just only two groups that come to > mind. > > Yes, since you are not sure why your angels passed, I'd advise tearing > down the tank, disposing of the substrate, and disinfecting everything > else with a good bleach solution. It is a situation where you would want > to be safe rather than sorry. > > While you are at it get a baseline test on your tap water--draw some > water from your tap and take pH, hardness, ammonia, nitrate and nitrite > readings from it. Let the water not used for testing sit for 24 hours > and test again. Let it sit for another 24 hours and test. Then you can > report your findings back here. > > Meanwhile, do some reading about fish that will do well in a high pH > environment and start preparing a list of fish you may find interesting. > Once you have that list, you can start paring it down based on criteria > like the size of your tank, what you really like, compatibility with > others, both of their own kind and other fish, and what may be available > to you. > > You can take some time doing this. You'll want to let the tanks sit > empty for a couple of days to help dissipate the bleach, even with good > rinsing. > > \\Steve// > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] > On Behalf Of anallafamily.2001 > Sent: Monday, July 13, 2009 10:03 AM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Subject: [AquaticLife] All angels died... > > I have a question ...........Now that all angels died if I wanted to put > community fish in the tank, do I still have to drain tank and dissinfect > everything? The reason I am asking is because I live in Ok. and I have > to go buy the water i put in my tank from a bottle water place. My water > from the fosit is to hard and ph is way to high.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 42026	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 7/13/2009
Subject: Re: Help reading the GH and KH instructions for API

It's not too "high"... just higher than the minimum suggested amount. Many snails live in acidic and soft waters so they also get their nutrients from their diet. Yes, neutral pH and higher and harder water is probably easier on them for making even stronger shells but I think if you give them sufficient dietary supplements, you'll be OK regardless of water parameters. You also have to consider the fish you have and their preferred water parameters (see Mongabay profiles as well as other reputable sites for water parameter preferences). If it was a snail only tank, then you could make it perfect for them and not have to worry. Your KH level of 6 dH (nearly 120ppm) is fine, possibly even higher than needed for a low to moderately stocked tank. I keep my goldfish tank over 4 dH of KH to lessen the chance of a pH crash between weekly tank maintenance (or if I should put it off a few days like this past weekend). Your GH level of 11 dH (around 200ppm) is getting up there for a community tank so take a look at the preferences for your fish (livebearers prefer harder water but many other fish do not) and come up with a good median level and add/remove crushed coral or cuttlebone or whatever you are using to buffer up the GH level until you see it quit rising/falling. Then you can simply add a little more every couple of months as you see the GH level falling a little. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Amber Berglund Sent: Tuesday, July 14, 2009 12:38 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Help reading the GH and KH instructions for API Okay well my KH was 6 drops and my GH was 11 drops, I need to have a high amount for snails shells to not deteriorate from what I've read on applesnail.net forums but no one knows precisely what ppm you should have. the API chart says in the 100 range is good for invertibrates, so I suppose I should keep mine about where it is? or should I lower it some? The KH is where I want it, the GH is a tad high though... any suggestions? Amber Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > > > Agreed. Include that last drop, that forces the complete color change, in > the count of drops. Each drop is supposed to equal 1 dH (One degree of > Hardness). Each dH is equal to 17.9ppm (or 18 for simplicity or even > 20 for > even more simplicity when multiplying the numbers out from dH to ppm). For > example, if it takes 5 drops to make the full change, the water would > have 5 > dH (either GH-General Harness or KH-Carbonate Hardness). Multiply that 5 > times 17.9=89.5ppm (or 5 x 18=90 or 5 x 20=100... all close enough in > ppm to > NOT matter). I guess if you were talking 100's of dH, then the fractional > difference between 17.9 and 20 would add up to make a difference but not > with most water being in the 0-20 dH range. > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right > side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On > Behalf Of Dora Smith > Sent: Monday, July 13, 2009 9:51 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Help reading the GH and KH instructions for API > > Both tests are designed so that when you add the first solution the > contents > of hte tube change color, and you add drop by drop (can add multiple drops > at first if you've an idea how many drops it will take), until the water > changes to a different color. > > It's a titration method. > > I find that there's a drop's difference between when the color begins to > change and when it's completely changed, but as long as you're > consistent in > your reading method, that ought not to make a big difference. > > Yours, > Dora Smith > Austin, TX > tiggernut24@... <mailto:tiggernut24%40yahoo.com> > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Amber Berglund" <arberglund@... > <mailto:arberglund%40gmail.com>> > To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>> > Sent: Monday, July 13, 2009 9:44 PM > Subject: [AquaticLife] Help reading the GH and KH instructions for API > > I'm really confused how to read the test chart, does anyone out there > use the API KH and GH test kit regularly and understand how to read the > drop's conversion? > > Amber

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 42027	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 7/13/2009
Subject: Re: Help reading the GH and KH instructions for API

Gotcha, I have mostly live bearers (platy's and guppy's), then the ram's, and hillstream loaches, the 1 severum, peppered cory's in the 125 and albino aeneus cory's in the 55 community. I need to test the 125 gallon tank to tell you what it is sitting on, I just gave the tests for the 55 gallon for now. It has guppys and the albino corys, and the purple passion danio's. I will look at mongabay and see what they say for the fish. Amber Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > > > It's not too "high"... just higher than the minimum suggested amount. Many > snails live in acidic and soft waters so they also get their nutrients > from > their diet. Yes, neutral pH and higher and harder water is probably easier > on them for making even stronger shells but I think if you give them > sufficient dietary supplements, you'll be OK regardless of water > parameters. > You also have to consider the fish you have and their preferred water > parameters (see Mongabay profiles as well as other reputable sites for > water > parameter preferences). If it was a snail only tank, then you could > make it > perfect for them and not have to worry. > > Your KH level of 6 dH (nearly 120ppm) is fine, possibly even higher than > needed for a low to moderately stocked tank. I keep my goldfish tank > over 4 > dH of KH to lessen the chance of a pH crash between weekly tank > maintenance > (or if I should put it off a few days like this past weekend). Your GH > level of 11 dH (around 200ppm) is getting up there for a community tank so > take a look at the preferences for your fish (livebearers prefer harder > water but many other fish do not) and come up with a good median level and > add/remove crushed coral or cuttlebone or whatever you are using to buffer > up the GH level until you see it quit rising/falling. Then you can simply > add a little more every couple of months as you see the GH level falling a > little. > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right > side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On > Behalf Of Amber Berglund > Sent: Tuesday, July 14, 2009 12:38 AM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Help reading the GH and KH instructions for API > > Okay well my KH was 6 drops and my GH was 11 drops, I need to have a high > amount for snails shells to not deteriorate from what I've read on > applesnail.net forums but no one knows precisely what ppm you should have. > the API chart says in the 100 range is good for invertibrates, so I > suppose > I should keep mine about where it is? or should I lower it some? The KH is > where I want it, the GH is a tad high though... any suggestions? > > Amber > > Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > > > > > > Agreed. Include that last drop, that forces the complete color > change, in > > the count of drops. Each drop is supposed to equal 1 dH (One degree of > > Hardness). Each dH is equal to 17.9ppm (or 18 for simplicity or even > > 20 for > > even more simplicity when multiplying the numbers out from dH to > ppm). For > > example, if it takes 5 drops to make the full change, the water would > > have 5 > > dH (either GH-General Harness or KH-Carbonate Hardness). Multiply that 5 > > times 17.9=89.5ppm (or 5 x 18=90 or 5 x 20=100... all close enough in > > ppm to > > NOT matter). I guess if you were talking 100's of dH, then the > fractional > > difference between 17.9 and 20 would add up to make a difference but not > > with most water being in the 0-20 dH range. > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>> > > (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right > > side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, > Month) > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On > > Behalf Of Dora Smith > > Sent: Monday, July 13, 2009 9:51 PM > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Help reading the GH and KH instructions > for API > > > > Both tests are designed so that when you add the first solution the > > contents > > of hte tube change color, and you add drop by drop (can add multiple > drops > > at first if you've an idea how many drops it will take), until the water > > changes to a different color. > > > > It's a titration method. > > > > I find that there's a drop's difference between when the color begins to > > change and when it's completely changed, but as long as you're > > consistent in > > your reading method, that ought not to make a big difference. > > > > Yours, > > Dora Smith > > Austin, TX > > tiggernut24@... <mailto:tiggernut24%40yahoo.com> > <mailto:tiggernut24%40yahoo.com> > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: "Amber Berglund" <arberglund@... > <mailto:arberglund%40gmail.com> > > <mailto:arberglund%40gmail.com>> > > To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>> > > Sent: Monday, July 13, 2009 9:44 PM > > Subject: [AquaticLife] Help reading the GH and KH instructions for API > > > > I'm really confused how to read the test chart, does anyone out there > > use the API KH and GH test kit regularly and understand how to read the > > drop's conversion? > > > > Amber > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 42028	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 7/13/2009
Subject: Re: MORE N'Awlins events coming up soon (was: All angels died...)

Since I missed the Running Of The Bulls event this past Saturday, I had to re-look at my Events Calendar to make sure I'm prepared for the upcoming events. Here are July's and August's events and the SNIPS of the ones I am now in-training for... mainly the "club crawls" or "pub crawls" as they are called when not in reference to Satchmo and Jazz Clubs. I'm presuming the "children's activities" will be standing around looking at the drunken adults. LOL JULY - http://www.nola.com/festivals/index.ssf/2007/12/louisiana_area_festivals_for _j_5.html Deep South Crane and Rigging Swamp Pop Music Festival July 17 -18, Gonzales, Lamar-Dixon Expo Center. Festival benefiting the Cystic Fibrosis foundation with music, jambalaya cook-off, car show, poker run and a Queen's pageant. (225) 769-9994. http://swamppopmusicfest.com Grand Isle Tarpon Rodeo July 23, 24, 25, Grand Isle, Sanddollar Marina. Oldest fishing rodeo in North America with big game, shoreline, spear-fishing and tag release divisions and food. (985) 787-2997. Satchmo SummerFest July 30 - Aug 2, Old U.S. Mint, 400 Esplanade Ave. Celebrates Louis Armstrong with outdoor concerts, seminars, children's activities, a club crawl and second-line parade. 522-5730, www.satchmosummerfest.com. AUGUST - http://www.nola.com/festivals/index.ssf/2007/12/louisiana_area_festivals_for _a_2.html Satchmo SummerFest Continued through August 2nd. Whitney Bank's - White Linen Night Aug 1, New Orleans, Contemporary Arts Center and Warehouse Arts District. Gallery openings, food and music. 528-3805. (Not my typical cup-of-tea but maybe a Flash Mob of Toga wearing college kids... (and some of us Animal House refugees) might be in order this year!!! LOL Uh OH... ideas for this Flash Mob dancing to "Shout" http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6tASwgOWALs and then running off towards the French Quarter (a few blocks away) are going through my head right now! LOL I think I'm going to head to UNO, Tulane and Loyola this week and get the Flash Mob rolling!!! Look for us on the news... or at least on YouTube!) And not listed... but mentioned in the comments section of "White Linen Night" is "Dirty Linen Night" on the second Saturday of August by the French Quarter Art Galleries. http://goneworleans.about.com/od/artgalleries/a/dirtylinen.htm (Still NOT my cup-of-tea but at least around every corner, there's a pub, bar or club!!! LOL) Mamou Cajun Music Festival August 14 and 15th 2009, Mamou Civic Center. Traditional Cajun music, sack race, guinea chase, egg-throwing and arm-wrestling contests, greased-pole climbing, boudin-eating. (337) 468-3272 or check out http://www.mamoucajunmusicfestival.com/ Le Cajun Music Awards Show & Festival No date set, Lafayette, Blackham Coliseum. Cajun French Music Association presents Cajun music, dancing, crafts, food and CFMA Music Awards. (800) 346-1958 or Ken Walker at (337) 367-1526. Whew.... I've got a busy two months ahead. I hope I can find time to get some work done too! ;-) Y'all come on down and... laissez le bon temps rouler!!!! Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Steve Szabo Sent: Monday, July 13, 2009 10:39 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] All angels died... Amber, The substrate has a tremendous surface area, jus from the multifaceted surface as well as having some porosity. It would be difficult to ensure that it was properly disinfected. Lenny is pretty quiet tonight. I think he may be quiet this week, saving up his energy for this New Orleans event on Saturday: http://www.nola.com/movies/index.ssf/2009/07/armed_with_foamcore_bats_th e_b.html http://tinyurl.com/nse5qh \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Amber Berglund Sent: Monday, July 13, 2009 10:32 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] All angels died... Why can't he bleach the substrate too? Just curious. Amber Steve Szabo wrote: > > > Actually, your hard water with high pH may be ideal for any number of > nice fish. Many livebearers like water with a high pH and hard. Then > there are the rift lake cichlids. Just only two groups that come to > mind. > > Yes, since you are not sure why your angels passed, I'd advise tearing > down the tank, disposing of the substrate, and disinfecting everything > else with a good bleach solution. It is a situation where you would want > to be safe rather than sorry. > > While you are at it get a baseline test on your tap water--draw some > water from your tap and take pH, hardness, ammonia, nitrate and nitrite > readings from it. Let the water not used for testing sit for 24 hours > and test again. Let it sit for another 24 hours and test. Then you can > report your findings back here. > > Meanwhile, do some reading about fish that will do well in a high pH > environment and start preparing a list of fish you may find interesting. > Once you have that list, you can start paring it down based on criteria > like the size of your tank, what you really like, compatibility with > others, both of their own kind and other fish, and what may be available > to you. > > You can take some time doing this. You'll want to let the tanks sit > empty for a couple of days to help dissipate the bleach, even with good > rinsing. > > \\Steve// > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] > On Behalf Of anallafamily.2001 > Sent: Monday, July 13, 2009 10:03 AM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Subject: [AquaticLife] All angels died... > > I have a question ...........Now that all angels died if I wanted to put > community fish in the tank, do I still have to drain tank and dissinfect > everything? The reason I am asking is because I live in Ok. and I have > to go buy the water i put in my tank from a bottle water place. My water > from the fosit is to hard and ph is way to high. >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 42029	From: Jasmine	Date: 7/14/2009
Subject: Silver angle laid eggs

Hey Ray The strangest thing happened a few days ago. After I did the partial water change and moved a few objects around in the tank the Yellow Kio angel stopped harassing and chasing the silver angle. We noticed that all 3 adult angles seem to swim around quite peacefully - it has been nice to see. However, yesterday I noticed that the silver angle had a tube or something hanging down from its abdomen which after a couple of hours I suspected it may have been her tube for her eggs. So I just thought that in 3 days she may start laying eggs. But to our surprise, while eating dinner last night I noticed she was doing some strange things. Surprise surprise - she was laying eggs. The eggs didn't last long as they were all gobbled up fast. I did manage to get a few digital movies of the whole egg incident though - not sure if I can post movies on here. Today, all is back to normal. No harassment and no tube hanging under the female silver angle. We did manage to loose our little white angle though last night. It was alive when we were watching the angle lay eggs but when I was heading off to bed I noticed it drifting in the tank with no eyes - eww - poor thing. Just thought I'd let you know. Oh, how is your cold going? Mine is almost over. Back to work next week. Cheers Jasmine

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 42030	From: Jim Pat.	Date: 7/14/2009
Subject: What is "Grouply "?

I am being asked by Eric to join "Grouply", is this a scam or what? Thanks, Jim

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 42031	From: bill 1433	Date: 7/14/2009
Subject: Re: What is "Grouply "?

Ya got me on that one Jim?  Maybe Len on here might know, I've never heard of it??? Could it just be a typo for "Group"?   Bill --- On Tue, 7/14/09, Jim Pat. <Jpateson@...> wrote: From: Jim Pat. <Jpateson@...> Subject: [AquaticLife] What is "Grouply "? To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Date: Tuesday, July 14, 2009, 9:41 AM I am being asked by Eric to join "Grouply", is this a scam or what? Thanks, Jim ------------------------------------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the home page.  Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com to receive the digest, which includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com for the No E-Mail option where you will still be able to read messages on the group and post replies. Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com to receive individual e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 42032	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 7/14/2009
Subject: Re: Silver angle laid eggs

I'd have to bet one of the Angel's was trying to protect the eggs from the white angelfish and that's how it lost it's eyes. They are VERY protective fish and will even attack arms (and probably legs so don't put those in the tank either) LOL Amber Jasmine wrote: > > > Hey Ray > > The strangest thing happened a few days ago. After I did the partial > water change and moved a few objects around in the tank the Yellow Kio > angel stopped harassing and chasing the silver angle. > > We noticed that all 3 adult angles seem to swim around quite > peacefully - it has been nice to see. However, yesterday I noticed > that the silver angle had a tube or something hanging down from its > abdomen which after a couple of hours I suspected it may have been her > tube for her eggs. So I just thought that in 3 days she may start > laying eggs. But to our surprise, while eating dinner last night I > noticed she was doing some strange things. Surprise surprise - she was > laying eggs. The eggs didn't last long as they were all gobbled up fast. > > I did manage to get a few digital movies of the whole egg incident > though - not sure if I can post movies on here. Today, all is back to > normal. No harassment and no tube hanging under the female silver angle. > > We did manage to loose our little white angle though last night. It > was alive when we were watching the angle lay eggs but when I was > heading off to bed I noticed it drifting in the tank with no eyes - > eww - poor thing. > > Just thought I'd let you know. > > Oh, how is your cold going? > Mine is almost over. Back to work next week. > > Cheers > Jasmine > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 42033	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 7/14/2009
Subject: Re: What is "Grouply "?

grouply is bad, but I forget exactly why, I think it spams for you or something... Amber bill 1433 wrote: > > > > Ya got me on that one Jim? Maybe Len on here might know, I've never > heard of it??? > Could it just be a typo for "Group"? > > Bill > > --- On Tue, 7/14/09, Jim Pat. <Jpateson@... > <mailto:Jpateson%40aol.com>> wrote: > > From: Jim Pat. <Jpateson@... <mailto:Jpateson%40aol.com>> > Subject: [AquaticLife] What is "Grouply "? > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Date: Tuesday, July 14, 2009, 9:41 AM > > I am being asked by Eric to join "Grouply", is this a scam or what? > > Thanks, > > Jim > > ------------------------------------ > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. > ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> > PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT > important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message > MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- > <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. > > If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of unsubscribing, > you can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My > Membership" on the home page. > > Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:aquaticlife-digest%40yahoogroups.com> to receive the digest, > which includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email > > Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:aquaticlife-nomail%40yahoogroups.com> for the No E-Mail option > where you will still be able to read messages on the group and post > replies. > > Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:aquaticlife-normal%40yahoogroups.com> to receive individual > e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 42034	From: bill 1433	Date: 7/14/2009
Subject: Re: What is "Grouply "?

Roger on that Amber but just did a google on it and some distrubing info came back-----NOT GOOD! Here is a cut & paste: "There are a few new services coming online which are social "networking" sites similar to My Space and Facebook. One of these new services is called "Grouply". Grouply is tapping Yahoo lists and reposting the messages to Grouply members. As soon as ONE list member joins this service, all of our messages will then be archived by Grouply. Grouply changes your email address to (yourname)@grouply. com. for the purpose of your Yahoo list mail only. They will also go into your Yahoo account and change all of your preferences regarding how you view your mail, whether you get individual posts or digests, and whether you can be directly added to any of a million other Yahoo groups. In order to do this, Grouply requires that you give them your Yahoo ID and password. I am truly hoping that most of our members are smart enough not to hand over that information to ANYONE--especially to another web service!" I don't think this is something that our members of the group should be into! ol' bill --- On Tue, 7/14/09, Amber Berglund <arberglund@...> wrote: > From: Amber Berglund <arberglund@...> > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] What is "Grouply "? > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Date: Tuesday, July 14, 2009, 10:42 AM > grouply is bad, but I forget exactly > why, I think it spams for you or > something... > > Amber > > bill 1433 wrote: > > > > > > > > Ya got me on that one Jim?  Maybe Len on here > might know, I've never > > heard of it??? > > Could it just be a typo for "Group"? > >  > > Bill > > > > --- On Tue, 7/14/09, Jim Pat. <Jpateson@... > > > <mailto:Jpateson%40aol.com>> wrote: > > > > From: Jim Pat. <Jpateson@... > <mailto:Jpateson%40aol.com>> > > Subject: [AquaticLife] What is "Grouply "? > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > Date: Tuesday, July 14, 2009, 9:41 AM > > > > I am being asked by Eric to join "Grouply", is this a > scam or what? > > > > Thanks, > > > > Jim > > > > ------------------------------------ > > > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when > replying, Thank You. > > > ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> > ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> > > PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that > is NOT > > important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of > the original message > > MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was > re: old subject)" <- > > > <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. > , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. > > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. > > > > If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead > of unsubscribing, > > you can change your delivery option by clicking on > "Edit My > > Membership" on the home page. > > > > Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com > > > <mailto:aquaticlife-digest%40yahoogroups.com> to > receive the digest, > > which includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single > email > > > > Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com > > > <mailto:aquaticlife-nomail%40yahoogroups.com> > for the No E-Mail option > > where you will still be able to read messages on the > group and post > > replies. > > > > Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com > > > <mailto:aquaticlife-normal%40yahoogroups.com> to > receive individual > > e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > > ------------------------------------ > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when > replying, Thank You. > ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> > ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> > PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is > NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of > the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new > subject (was re: old subject)" <- > <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. > , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. > > If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of > unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by > clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the home page.  > > Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com > to receive the digest, which includes up to 25 posts at a > time in a single email > > Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com > for the No E-Mail option where you will still be able to > read messages on the group and post replies. > > Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com > to receive individual e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links > > >     mailto:AquaticLife-fullfeatured@yahoogroups.com > > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 42035	From: jan1213@aol.com	Date: 7/14/2009
Subject: Re: What is "Grouply "?

All I know is do not reply........................most news group will drop you if you join....I think they will ask you for your password. Jan In a message dated 7/14/2009 10:18:24 A.M. Eastern Daylight Time, warrenprint@... writes: Ya got me on that one Jim? Maybe Len on here might know, I've never heard of it??? Could it just be a typo for "Group"? Bill --- On Tue, 7/14/09, Jim Pat. <_Jpateson@..._ (mailto:Jpateson@...) > wrote: From: Jim Pat. <_Jpateson@..._ (mailto:Jpateson@...) > Subject: [AquaticLife] What is "Grouply "? To: _AquaticLife@AquaticLife@Aqu_ (mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com) Date: Tuesday, July 14, 2009, 9:41 AM I am being asked by Eric to join "Grouply", is this a scam or what? Thanks, Jim ------------------------------------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the home page. Or e-mail _aquaticlife-aquaticlife-<WBRaquati_ (mailto:aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com) to receive the digest, which includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email Or email _aquaticlife-aquaticlife-<WBRaquati_ (mailto:aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com) for the No E-Mail option where you will still be able to read messages on the group and post replies. Or email _aquaticlife-aquaticlife-<WBRaquati_ (mailto:aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com) to receive individual e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links **************An Excellent Credit Score is 750. See Yours in Just 2 Easy Steps! (http://pr.atwola.com/promoclk/100126575x1221323036x1201367247/aol?redir=http://www.freecreditreport.com/pm/default.aspx?sc=668072&hmpgID=62&bcd=Jul yExcfooterNO62) [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 42036	From: klf62972	Date: 7/14/2009
Subject: Newbie.... Kinda

Hey Everyone, I am Kandi and I live just outside Memphis, TN. I have been in this group for about a month, but I have just been a "lurker" reading and looking at pictures with interest. But now I want to chime in! I have had tanks since I was 10 years old, and I LOVE fish!! I currently have two tanks - One is a 29 gal community that has live plants, 2 Angels, 3 Dwarf Platties, 3 White Mickey Mouse Platties, a few guppies, 2 Octos, a Pleco, and a few ghost shrimp. My big tank is a 110 gal with my "bad boys" in there. I have a 12" Bichir, a Long Fin Tiger Oscar (about 7-8" body), an Albino Oscar (about 6-7" body), a South American Pike (he is the smallest @ about 6" - but he is by far the meanest of them all) and a hybrid Red-Tail/Tiger Shovelnose Cat. Now for why I am posting - 1. Hey Lenny - Geaux Tigers!! My house is a HUGE LSU party zone for foolball season! (in fact, my cage of Sugar Gliders have a LSU cage set coming in August - I will have to share pics with you!) As I was looking through Amber's pictures of her snails, I was thinking that I could get the purple ones and then some gold ones :) I can tell you are a wealth of knowledge! 2. I want to get in touch with Pam - I have never bought fish/snails other than locally, and I would love to have some decent quality snails that will stay alive - everything I have bought from LFS's have died... Can someone hook me up with her? Thanks in advance guys!

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 42037	From: Jpateson@aol.com	Date: 7/14/2009
Subject: Re: What is "Grouply "?

[MODERATOR NOTE ADDED - GROUPLY IS A SOCIAL NETWORKING SCHEME. WHEN IT FIRST CAME OUT, IT WAS VERY PERVASIVE AND INVASIVE IN THE WAY THEY "SPAMMED" YAHOO GROUPS ONCE A MEMBER GAVE THEM THEIR YAHOO I.D. AND PASSWORD. I THINK THEY HAVE FIXED SOME OF THEIR "ISSUES" BUT MOST YAHOO GROUPS STILL LOOK VERY CAUTIOUSLY OF ANY PROMOTION OF GROUPLY IN THEIR GROUPS AND SOME YAHOO GROUPS WILL BAN MEMBERS WHO GIVE ACCESS TO THE GROUP TO GROUPLY. I'LL REPLY IN THE THREAD WITH LINKS TO MORE INFO ABOUT GROUPLY.] No, if you follow the link it's "Grouply", looks like it has something to do with Yahoo! Jim In a message dated 7/14/2009 9:18:13 A.M. Central Daylight Time, warrenprint@... writes: Ya got me on that one Jim? Maybe Len on here might know, I've never heard of it??? Could it just be a typo for "Group"? Bill --- On Tue, 7/14/09, Jim Pat. <_Jpateson@..._ (mailto:Jpateson@...) > wrote: From: Jim Pat. <_Jpateson@..._ (mailto:Jpateson@...) > Subject: [AquaticLife] What is "Grouply "? To: _AquaticLife@AquaticLife@Aqu_ (mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com) Date: Tuesday, July 14, 2009, 9:41 AM I am being asked by Eric to join "Grouply", is this a scam or what? Thanks, Jim

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 42038	From: Dave H.	Date: 7/14/2009
Subject: What is a Grouply? ATTN: JIM

Jim, I had that expierence with Grouply before.  Do NOT join it.  That is a Hacker's favorite place to go to.  Please read more information below.  Dave   IDENTIFY THEFT AT GROUPLY.COM There is a message going out to different Yahoo Groups advertising and suggesting that you join a new group called GROUPLY. This group claims to help manage all your Yahoo groups and y [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 42039	From: Jpateson@aol.com	Date: 7/14/2009
Subject: Re: What is "Grouply "?

Glad I asked before signing up. So, Eric Lampe is not a member of this group? Thanks again, Jim In a message dated 7/14/2009 10:11:14 A.M. Central Daylight Time, jan1213@... writes: All I know is do not reply.......All I knoAll I know is do not reply.......<WBR> you if you join....I think they will ask you for your password. Jan In a message dated 7/14/2009 10:18:24 A.M. Eastern Daylight Time, _warrenprint@warrenpri_ (mailto:warrenprint@...) writes: Ya got me on that one Jim? Maybe Len on here might know, I've never heard of it??? Could it just be a typo for "Group"? Bill --- On Tue, 7/14/09, Jim Pat. <__Jpateson@aol._Jp_ (mailto:_Jpateson@...) _ (mailto:_Jpateson@..._ (mailto:Jpateson@...) ) > wrote: From: Jim Pat. <__Jpateson@aol._Jp_ (mailto:_Jpateson@...) _ (mailto:_Jpateson@..._ (mailto:Jpateson@...) ) > Subject: [AquaticLife] What is "Grouply "? To: _AquaticLife@To: _AquTo: _Aqua_AquaticLife@AquaticLife@Aqu_ (mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com) ) Date: Tuesday, July 14, 2009, 9:41 AM I am being asked by Eric to join "Grouply", is this a scam or what? Thanks, Jim ------------------------------------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the home page. Or e-mail _aquaticlife-Or e-mail <WBRaquati_ (mailto:_aquaticlife-aquaticlife-<WBRaquati_ (mailto:aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com) ) to receive the digest, which includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email Or email _aquaticlife-Or email _aq<WBRaquati_ (mailto:_aquaticlife-aquaticlife-<WBRaquati_ (mailto:aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com) ) for the No E-Mail option where you will still be able to read messages on the group and post replies. Or email _aquaticlife-Or email <WBRaquati_ (mailto:_aquaticlife-aquaticlife-<WBRaquati_ (mailto:aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com) ) to receive individual e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links ************************<WBR>**An Excellent Credit Score is 750. See Your Steps! (_http://pr.atwola.http://pr.atwhttp://pr.atwolahttp://pr.atwolahttp://pr.ht tp://pr.ahttp://pr.atwolahttp://pr.atwolahttp://pr.atwo&<WBR>hmpg&<WBR>bc_ (http://pr.atwola.com/promoclk/100126575x1221323036x1201367247/aol?redir=http ://www.freecreditreport.com/pm/default.aspx?sc=668072&hmpgID=62&bcd=Jul) yExcfooterNO62) [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] **************An Excellent Credit Score is 750. See Yours in Just 2 Easy Steps! (http://pr.atwola.com/promoclk/100126575x1221323036x1201367247/aol?redir=http://www.freecreditreport.com/pm/default.aspx?sc=668072&hmpgID=62&bcd=Jul yExcfooterNO62) [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 42040	From: Dave H.	Date: 7/14/2009
Subject: Re: What is "Grouply "?

I agree.. Do NOT join the Grouply group.  It is the Hacker's favorite group.  --- On Tue, 7/14/09, bill 1433 <warrenprint@...> wrote: From: bill 1433 <warrenprint@...> Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] What is "Grouply "? To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Date: Tuesday, July 14, 2009, 11:06 AM Roger on that Amber but just did a google on it and some distrubing info came back-----NOT GOOD!  Here is a cut & paste: "There are a few new services coming online which are social "networking" sites similar to My Space and Facebook. One of these new services is called "Grouply". Grouply is tapping Yahoo lists and reposting the messages to Grouply members. As soon as ONE list member joins this service, all of our messages will then be archived by Grouply. Grouply changes your email address to (yourname)@grouply. com. for the purpose of your Yahoo list mail only. They will also go into your Yahoo account and change all of your preferences regarding how you view your mail, whether you get individual posts or digests, and whether you can be directly added to any of a million other Yahoo groups. In order to do this, Grouply requires that you give them your Yahoo ID and password. I am truly hoping that most of our members are smart enough not to hand over that information to ANYONE--especially to another web service!" I don't think this is something that our members of the group should be into! ol' bill --- On Tue, 7/14/09, Amber Berglund <arberglund@...> wrote: > From: Amber Berglund <arberglund@...> > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] What is "Grouply "? > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Date: Tuesday, July 14, 2009, 10:42 AM > grouply is bad, but I forget exactly > why, I think it spams for you or > something... > > Amber > > bill 1433 wrote: > > > > > > > > Ya got me on that one Jim?  Maybe Len on here > might know, I've never > > heard of it??? > > Could it just be a typo for "Group"? > >  > > Bill > > > > --- On Tue, 7/14/09, Jim Pat. <Jpateson@... > > > <mailto:Jpateson%40aol.com>> wrote: > > > > From: Jim Pat. <Jpateson@... > <mailto:Jpateson%40aol.com>> > > Subject: [AquaticLife] What is "Grouply "? > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > Date: Tuesday, July 14, 2009, 9:41 AM > > > > I am being asked by Eric to join "Grouply", is this a > scam or what? > > > > Thanks, > > > > Jim > > > > ------------------------------------ > > > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when > replying, Thank You. > > > ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> > ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> > > PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that > is NOT > > important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of > the original message > > MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was > re: old subject)" <- > > > <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. > , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. > > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. > > > > If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead > of unsubscribing, > > you can change your delivery option by clicking on > "Edit My > > Membership" on the home page. > > > > Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com > > > <mailto:aquaticlife-digest%40yahoogroups.com> to > receive the digest, > > which includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single > email > > > > Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com > > > <mailto:aquaticlife-nomail%40yahoogroups.com> > for the No E-Mail option > > where you will still be able to read messages on the > group and post > > replies. > > > > Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com > > > <mailto:aquaticlife-normal%40yahoogroups.com> to > receive individual > > e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > > ------------------------------------ > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when > replying, Thank You. > ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> > ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> > PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is > NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of > the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new > subject (was re: old subject)" <- > <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. > , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. > > If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of > unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by > clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the home page.  > > Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com > to receive the digest, which includes up to 25 posts at a > time in a single email > > Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com > for the No E-Mail option where you will still be able to > read messages on the group and post replies. > > Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com > to receive individual e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links > > >     mailto:AquaticLife-fullfeatured@yahoogroups.com > > >       ------------------------------------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the home page.  Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com to receive the digest, which includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com for the No E-Mail option where you will still be able to read messages on the group and post replies. Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com to receive individual e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 42041	From: Eric Roberts	Date: 7/14/2009
Subject: Re: What is "Grouply "?

Grouply is evil...do not reply to it. They scam your login and password on yahoo and spam the hell out of all your groups. Yahoo has something about groupy on thier site, I am sure a quick search will find it as I don;t remeber where it is offhand. Eric (not the one that sent the invite *grin*) On Tue, Jul 14, 2009 at 5:08 PM, <jan1213@...> wrote: > > > All I know is do not reply........................most news group will drop > > you if you join....I think they will ask you for your password. Jan > > > In a message dated 7/14/2009 10:18:24 A.M. Eastern Daylight Time, > warrenprint@... <warrenprint%40yahoo.com> writes: > > Ya got me on that one Jim? Maybe Len on here might know, I've never heard > of it??? > Could it just be a typo for "Group"? > > Bill > > --- On Tue, 7/14/09, Jim Pat. <_Jpateson@... <_Jpateson%40aol.Jpa>_ > (mailto:Jpateson@... <Jpateson%40aol.com>) > > wrote: > > From: Jim Pat. <_Jpateson@... <_Jpateson%40aol.Jpa>_ (mailto: > Jpateson@... <Jpateson%40aol.com>) > > Subject: [AquaticLife] What is "Grouply "? > To: _AquaticLife@AquaticLife@Aqu_ (mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com<AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>) > > Date: Tuesday, July 14, 2009, 9:41 AM > > I am being asked by Eric to join "Grouply", is this a scam or what? > > Thanks, > > Jim > > ------------------------------------ > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. > ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> > PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to > the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the > SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- > <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. > > If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of unsubscribing, you > can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the > home page. > > Or e-mail _aquaticlife-aquaticlife-<WBRaquati_ > (mailto:aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com<aquaticlife-digest%40yahoogroups.com>) > to receive the digest, which includes up to 25 posts at a > time in a single email > > Or email _aquaticlife-aquaticlife-<WBRaquati_ > (mailto:aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com<aquaticlife-nomail%40yahoogroups.com>) > for the No E-Mail option where you will still be able to > read messages on the group and post replies. > > Or email _aquaticlife-aquaticlife-<WBRaquati_ > (mailto:aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com<aquaticlife-normal%40yahoogroups.com>) > to receive individual e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links > > **************An Excellent Credit Score is 750. See Yours in Just 2 Easy > Steps! > ( > http://pr.atwola.com/promoclk/100126575x1221323036x1201367247/aol?redir=http://www.freecreditreport.com/pm/default.aspx?sc=668072&hmpgID=62&bcd=Jul > yExcfooterNO62) > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 42042	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 7/14/2009
Subject: Re: Newbie.... Kinda

Knowing Pam she will answer shortly, don't worry ;) She's not a lurker, LOL. Amber klf62972 wrote: > > > Hey Everyone, > I am Kandi and I live just outside Memphis, TN. I have been in this > group for about a month, but I have just been a "lurker" reading and > looking at pictures with interest. But now I want to chime in! > I have had tanks since I was 10 years old, and I LOVE fish!! I > currently have two tanks - One is a 29 gal community that has live > plants, 2 Angels, 3 Dwarf Platties, 3 White Mickey Mouse Platties, a > few guppies, 2 Octos, a Pleco, and a few ghost shrimp. My big tank is > a 110 gal with my "bad boys" in there. I have a 12" Bichir, a Long Fin > Tiger Oscar (about 7-8" body), an Albino Oscar (about 6-7" body), a > South American Pike (he is the smallest @ about 6" - but he is by far > the meanest of them all) and a hybrid Red-Tail/Tiger Shovelnose Cat. > > Now for why I am posting - > > 1. Hey Lenny - Geaux Tigers!! My house is a HUGE LSU party zone for > foolball season! (in fact, my cage of Sugar Gliders have a LSU cage > set coming in August - I will have to share pics with you!) As I was > looking through Amber's pictures of her snails, I was thinking that I > could get the purple ones and then some gold ones :) I can tell you > are a wealth of knowledge! > > 2. I want to get in touch with Pam - I have never bought fish/snails > other than locally, and I would love to have some decent quality > snails that will stay alive - everything I have bought from LFS's have > died... Can someone hook me up with her? > > Thanks in advance guys! > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 42043	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 7/14/2009
Subject: Re: What is "Grouply "?

Here is what Snopes.com has to say about Grouply. http://message.snopes.com/showthread.php?t=25770 There are a few new services coming online which are social "networking" sites similar to My Space and Facebook. One of these new services is called "Grouply". Grouply is tapping Yahoo lists and reposting the messages to Grouply members. As soon as ONE list member joins this service, all of our messages will then be archived by Grouply. Grouply changes your email address to (yourname)@grouply. com. for the purpose of your Yahoo list mail only. They will also go into your Yahoo account and change all of your preferences regarding how you view your mail, whether you get individual posts or digests, and whether you can be directly added to any of a million other Yahoo groups. In order to do this, Grouply requires that you give them your Yahoo ID and password. I am truly hoping that most of our members are smart enough not to hand over that information to ANYONE--especially to another web service! There is no guarantee that this information that Grouply is aggregating is secure, thus leaving your sign-in info available to spammers and hackers--including all of our list files and photos. At this point, there is no way for us to block Grouply's access to our list (although that is being worked on). Until there is, I will be checking daily for list members who may have innocently joined Grouply. I will be unsubbing and banning them, plus making direct contact with them explaining why we will not allow this in our membership. They will be welcome to rejoin once they unsub from Grouply. (END SNIP) This review also lists many reference links to other info about Grouply. http://groups.google.com/group/Google_Web_Search_Help-UsingWS/msg/217d1450f3 b2ca61 While Grouply came on strong and invasive/pervasive when it first came out, it has modified the way it markets itself now. Unfortunately, much damage was done to it's image. When they first came out, as soon as folks joined, they didn't realize it but when they gave Grouply their Yahoo ID and password, Grouply then sent out invitations to everyone in their Yahoo email address book, including to all of the groups that the person belonged to. When this started happening to groups, moderators/owners started blocking/banning and down-talking Grouply. Now, Grouply has more of a feature like MySpace and Facebook where they ask you if you want to notify your friends, instead of doing it without your knowledge (although it was in the small print of the EULA). The downside is that if someone says YES to Grouply, they still send out invites to everyone... which is why members of this group will occasionally get a Grouply invite. There's not much a Group's moderator can do to stop this other than to ban members when it happens but most of the time, it's due to social engineering tht tricks the member into saying YES, rather than the member intentionally spamming a group they may belong to. If a Yahoo Group member decides to join Grouply and then DOES NOT accept the process of inviting friends and simply uses Grouply to read all of their Yahoo Group mail, it would be an acceptable service but Grouply still has their self-promoting and growing part where they try and convince Grouply Members to notifiy their friends... just like MySpace, Facebook and most other Social Networds do. It's really up to the member to NOT allow these "services" access to their email accounts and friend lists. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of bill 1433 Sent: Tuesday, July 14, 2009 10:07 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] What is "Grouply "? Roger on that Amber but just did a google on it and some distrubing info came back-----NOT GOOD! Here is a cut & paste: "There are a few new services coming online which are social "networking" sites similar to My Space and Facebook. One of these new services is called "Grouply". Grouply is tapping Yahoo lists and reposting the messages to Grouply members. As soon as ONE list member joins this service, all of our messages will then be archived by Grouply. Grouply changes your email address to (yourname)@grouply. com. for the purpose of your Yahoo list mail only. They will also go into your Yahoo account and change all of your preferences regarding how you view your mail, whether you get individual posts or digests, and whether you can be directly added to any of a million other Yahoo groups. In order to do this, Grouply requires that you give them your Yahoo ID and password. I am truly hoping that most of our members are smart enough not to hand over that information to ANYONE--especially to another web service!" I don't think this is something that our members of the group should be into! ol' bill --- On Tue, 7/14/09, Amber Berglund <arberglund@...> wrote: > From: Amber Berglund <arberglund@...> > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] What is "Grouply "? > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Date: Tuesday, July 14, 2009, 10:42 AM > grouply is bad, but I forget exactly > why, I think it spams for you or > something... > > Amber > > bill 1433 wrote: > > > > > > > > Ya got me on that one Jim?  Maybe Len on here > might know, I've never > > heard of it??? > > Could it just be a typo for "Group"? > >  > > Bill > > > > --- On Tue, 7/14/09, Jim Pat. <Jpateson@... > > > <mailto:Jpateson%40aol.com>> wrote: > > > > From: Jim Pat. <Jpateson@... > <mailto:Jpateson%40aol.com>> > > Subject: [AquaticLife] What is "Grouply "? > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > Date: Tuesday, July 14, 2009, 9:41 AM > > > > I am being asked by Eric to join "Grouply", is this a > scam or what? > > > > Thanks, > > > > Jim

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 42044	From: pam andress	Date: 7/14/2009
Subject: Re: Tank Maintenance(Platties)

Oh NO! You don't want black either! Pam To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com From: arberglund@... Date: Mon, 13 Jul 2009 18:31:17 -0800 Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Tank Maintenance(Platties) LOL, bad Pam ;) Either way it's fine. I'll throw 'em in my community tank upstairs instead of with all the other platties if they're orange ;) hehe. I've got enough orange in my 125 gallon tank to celebrate Halloween already, now I just need some black fish ;) LOL. Amber pam andress wrote: > > > > I thought you said you WANTED orange. Oh No! > > Pam > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > From: arberglund@... <mailto:arberglund%40gmail.com> > Date: Mon, 13 Jul 2009 15:06:18 -0800 > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Tank Maintenance(Platties) > > Evil Lenny ;) LOL > Now I'm curious to see just what platties arrive in the box ;) LOL > Please let them not be orange, ROFL. > Both of my coworkers said they should set up their fish tanks and take > some of my platties off of my hands ;) hehe. > I'll get rid of them somehow, even if the LFS won't take them for store > credit. > > Amber > > Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > > > > > > Pam, > > > > You should have made an intentional typo and called them "Plumtail" > > instead > > of "Plumetail". You know Amber would have fallen for "Plumtail"... > > thinking > > they had purple tails. LOL > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>> > > (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right > > side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, > Month) > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On > > Behalf Of pam andress > > Sent: Sunday, July 12, 2009 3:10 PM > > To: aquaticlife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:aquaticlife%40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:aquaticlife%40yahoogroups.com> > > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Tank Maintenance(Platties) > > > > Amber, > > > > Do you have any plume tail platties? I can put some of those in the box > > tomorrow if you want. lol > > > > Pam > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 42045	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 7/14/2009
Subject: Re: What is "Grouply "?

I recognize the name so he may be a member. The unfortunate thing is that he may have joined Grouply and did not realize he was authorizing Grouply to spam his entire email address list... including any members from this group that were on his list. Most folks that join these Social Networking groups like MySpace, Facebook, etc., are also given the choice to "Notify Your Friends" and when they fall for this "trick", they are then asked to give their ID and password to all of their email services (Gmail, YahooMail, Hotmail, AOLmail, etc.) so that the Social Network can then notify all of the new members friends that they have joined. Of course, all of the people receiving these unsolicited invitations consider them spam and report them as such, possibly causing the member to be put on one or more black-lists of known spammers. It's OK to join a Social Network (I'm a member of MySpace, Facebook, Twitter, FUBAR.. lol, etc.)... JUST DO NOT ALLOW THEM TO SEND OUT INVITES FOR YOU. If you want to send out a few invites to your known friends, then feel free but DO NOT SEND OUT MASS INVITES VIA THE SOCIAL NETWORK "PROGRAM". Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Jpateson@... Sent: Tuesday, July 14, 2009 10:17 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] What is "Grouply "? Glad I asked before signing up. So, Eric Lampe is not a member of this group? Thanks again, Jim In a message dated 7/14/2009 10:11:14 A.M. Central Daylight Time, jan1213@... writes: All I know is do not reply.......All I knoAll I know is do not reply.......<WBR> you if you join....I think they will ask you for your password. Jan In a message dated 7/14/2009 10:18:24 A.M. Eastern Daylight Time, _warrenprint@warrenpri_ (mailto:warrenprint@...) writes: Ya got me on that one Jim? Maybe Len on here might know, I've never heard of it??? Could it just be a typo for "Group"? Bill --- On Tue, 7/14/09, Jim Pat. <__Jpateson@aol._Jp_ (mailto:_Jpateson@...) _ (mailto:_Jpateson@..._ (mailto:Jpateson@...) ) > wrote: From: Jim Pat. <__Jpateson@aol._Jp_ (mailto:_Jpateson@...) _ (mailto:_Jpateson@..._ (mailto:Jpateson@...) ) > Subject: [AquaticLife] What is "Grouply "? To: _AquaticLife@To: _AquTo: _Aqua_AquaticLife@AquaticLife@Aqu_ (mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com) ) Date: Tuesday, July 14, 2009, 9:41 AM I am being asked by Eric to join "Grouply", is this a scam or what? Thanks, Jim

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 42046	From: biG poppa	Date: 7/14/2009
Subject: Re: All angels died...

Sorry for you loss...   jake --- On Mon, 7/13/09, Amber Berglund <arberglund@...> wrote: From: Amber Berglund <arberglund@...> Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] All angels died... To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Date: Monday, July 13, 2009, 10:46 AM What are your tapwater parameters its usually best to stick with fish that like your water first. Amber On Jul 13, 2009 6:40 AM, "anallafamily. 2001" <anallafamily. 2001@yahoo. com> wrote: I have a question ...........Now that all angels died if I wanted to put community fish in the tank, do I still have to drain tank and dissinfect everything? The reason I am asking is because I live in Ok. and I have to go buy the water i put in my tank from a bottle water place. My water from the fosit is to hard and ph is way to high. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 42047	From: pam andress	Date: 7/14/2009
Subject: Re: Newbie.... Kinda

All you have to do is say HEY PAM and here I am. lol Pam To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com From: klf62972@... Date: Tue, 14 Jul 2009 14:03:53 +0000 Subject: [AquaticLife] Newbie.... Kinda Hey Everyone, I am Kandi and I live just outside Memphis, TN. I have been in this group for about a month, but I have just been a "lurker" reading and looking at pictures with interest. But now I want to chime in! I have had tanks since I was 10 years old, and I LOVE fish!! I currently have two tanks - One is a 29 gal community that has live plants, 2 Angels, 3 Dwarf Platties, 3 White Mickey Mouse Platties, a few guppies, 2 Octos, a Pleco, and a few ghost shrimp. My big tank is a 110 gal with my "bad boys" in there. I have a 12" Bichir, a Long Fin Tiger Oscar (about 7-8" body), an Albino Oscar (about 6-7" body), a South American Pike (he is the smallest @ about 6" - but he is by far the meanest of them all) and a hybrid Red-Tail/Tiger Shovelnose Cat. Now for why I am posting - 1. Hey Lenny - Geaux Tigers!! My house is a HUGE LSU party zone for foolball season! (in fact, my cage of Sugar Gliders have a LSU cage set coming in August - I will have to share pics with you!) As I was looking through Amber's pictures of her snails, I was thinking that I could get the purple ones and then some gold ones :) I can tell you are a wealth of knowledge! 2. I want to get in touch with Pam - I have never bought fish/snails other than locally, and I would love to have some decent quality snails that will stay alive - everything I have bought from LFS's have died... Can someone hook me up with her? Thanks in advance guys! [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 42048	From: klf62972	Date: 7/14/2009
Subject: Re: Newbie.... Kinda

HEY PAM!!! :) Let's take Snails and Platties! What are Plumetails? Where are youlocated and how do I find out what all you have to offer? I think I will like being a part of this group once I become more active! You guys seem like you have a lot of fun! and New Orleans is one of my favorite places EVER... I have done my share of support there since Katrina :) Thanks Amber for letting me know that Pam would be right along! You were right! --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, pam andress <pamandress23@...> wrote: > > > All you have to do is say HEY PAM and here I am. lol > > > > Pam > > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > From: klf62972@... > Date: Tue, 14 Jul 2009 14:03:53 +0000 > Subject: [AquaticLife] Newbie.... Kinda > > > > > > > > Hey Everyone, > I am Kandi and I live just outside Memphis, TN. I have been in this group for about a month, but I have just been a "lurker" reading and looking at pictures with interest. But now I want to chime in! > I have had tanks since I was 10 years old, and I LOVE fish!! I currently have two tanks - One is a 29 gal community that has live plants, 2 Angels, 3 Dwarf Platties, 3 White Mickey Mouse Platties, a few guppies, 2 Octos, a Pleco, and a few ghost shrimp. My big tank is a 110 gal with my "bad boys" in there. I have a 12" Bichir, a Long Fin Tiger Oscar (about 7-8" body), an Albino Oscar (about 6-7" body), a South American Pike (he is the smallest @ about 6" - but he is by far the meanest of them all) and a hybrid Red-Tail/Tiger Shovelnose Cat. > > Now for why I am posting - > > 1. Hey Lenny - Geaux Tigers!! My house is a HUGE LSU party zone for foolball season! (in fact, my cage of Sugar Gliders have a LSU cage set coming in August - I will have to share pics with you!) As I was looking through Amber's pictures of her snails, I was thinking that I could get the purple ones and then some gold ones :) I can tell you are a wealth of knowledge! > > 2. I want to get in touch with Pam - I have never bought fish/snails other than locally, and I would love to have some decent quality snails that will stay alive - everything I have bought from LFS's have died... Can someone hook me up with her? > > Thanks in advance guys! > > > > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 42049	From: Gail	Date: 7/14/2009
Subject: Re: Question about catfish

I was talked into Corydoras for a catfish. I have some Emerald Cory's and I was sold on them, when I was told how "durable & withstanding" they are. They are also great bottom feeders (that don't eat the other fish - unless they die and they stay on the bottom). Maybe talk to the other members, I know many of the members here have shoals of Corys. I personally only have 3 and a Pictus. I also think that Corys are really fun to watch. They kind of play around in the tank when they are not foraging. :) -gail > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On > Behalf Of grdnfan243@... > Sent: Sunday, July 12, 2009 10:02 AM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Question about catfish > > are there any catfish that stay miniature or small? >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 42050	From: Jpateson@aol.com	Date: 7/14/2009
Subject: Re: What is "Grouply "?

Lenny, Again thanks, I don't belong to any "social networks" and this in another one to go on my list.. Jim In a message dated 7/14/2009 1:22:26 P.M. Central Daylight Time, GoldLenny@... writes: Here is what Snopes.com has to say about Grouply. _http://message.http://messhttp://messhttp://mess_ (http://message.snopes.com/showthread.php?t=25770) There are a few new services coming online which are social "networking" sites similar to My Space and Facebook. One of these new services is called "Grouply". Grouply is tapping Yahoo lists and reposting the messages to Grouply members. As soon as ONE list member joins this service, all of our messages will then be archived by Grouply. Grouply changes your email address to (yourname)@grouply. com. for the purpose of your Yahoo list mail only. They will also go into your Yahoo account and change all of your preferences regarding how you view your mail, whether you get individual posts or digests, and whether you can be directly added to any of a million other Yahoo groups. In order to do this, Grouply requires that you give them your Yahoo ID and password. I am truly hoping that most of our members are smart enough not to hand over that information to ANYONE--especially to another web service! There is no guarantee that this information that Grouply is aggregating is secure, thus leaving your sign-in info available to spammers and hackers--including all of our list files and photos. At this point, there is no way for us to block Grouply's access to our list (although that is being worked on). Until there is, I will be checking daily for list members who may have innocently joined Grouply. I will be unsubbing and banning them, plus making direct contact with them explaining why we will not allow this in our membership. They will be welcome to rejoin once they unsub from Grouply. (END SNIP) This review also lists many reference links to other info about Grouply. _http://groups.http://grouhttp://groupshttp://grouhttp://groupshttp://groups ._ (http://groups.google.com/group/Google_Web_Search_Help-UsingWS/msg/217d1450f3) b2ca61 While Grouply came on strong and invasive/pervasive when it first came out, it has modified the way it markets itself now. Unfortunately, much damage was done to it's image. When they first came out, as soon as folks joined, they didn't realize it but when they gave Grouply their Yahoo ID and password, Grouply then sent out invitations to everyone in their Yahoo email address book, including to all of the groups that the person belonged to. When this started happening to groups, moderators/owners started blocking/banning and down-talking Grouply. Now, Grouply has more of a feature like MySpace and Facebook where they ask you if you want to notify your friends, instead of doing it without your knowledge (although it was in the small print of the EULA). The downside is that if someone says YES to Grouply, they still send out invites to everyone... which is why members of this group will occasionally get a Grouply invite. There's not much a Group's moderator can do to stop this other than to ban members when it happens but most of the time, it's due to social engineering tht tricks the member into saying YES, rather than the member intentionally spamming a group they may belong to. If a Yahoo Group member decides to join Grouply and then DOES NOT accept the process of inviting friends and simply uses Grouply to read all of their Yahoo Group mail, it would be an acceptable service but Grouply still has their self-promoting and growing part where they try and convince Grouply Members to notifiy their friends... just like MySpace, Facebook and most other Social Networds do. It's really up to the member to NOT allow these "services" access to their email accounts and friend lists. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - _http://GoldLenny.http://Gohtt_ (http://goldlenny.blogspot.com/) (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: _AquaticLife@AquaticLife@Aqu_ (mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com) [mailto:_AquaticLife@AquaticLife@Aqu_ (mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com) ] On Behalf Of bill 1433 Sent: Tuesday, July 14, 2009 10:07 AM To: _AquaticLife@AquaticLife@Aqu_ (mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com) Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] What is "Grouply "? Roger on that Amber but just did a google on it and some distrubing info came back-----NOT GOOD! Here is a cut & paste: "There are a few new services coming online which are social "networking" sites similar to My Space and Facebook. One of these new services is called "Grouply". Grouply is tapping Yahoo lists and reposting the messages to Grouply members. As soon as ONE list member joins this service, all of our messages will then be archived by Grouply. Grouply changes your email address to (yourname)@grouply. com. for the purpose of your Yahoo list mail only. They will also go into your Yahoo account and change all of your preferences regarding how you view your mail, whether you get individual posts or digests, and whether you can be directly added to any of a million other Yahoo groups. In order to do this, Grouply requires that you give them your Yahoo ID and password. I am truly hoping that most of our members are smart enough not to hand over that information to ANYONE--especially to another web service!" I don't think this is something that our members of the group should be into! ol' bill --- On Tue, 7/14/09, Amber Berglund <_arberglund@..._ (mailto:arberglund@...) > wrote: > From: Amber Berglund <_arberglund@..._ (mailto:arberglund@...) > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] What is "Grouply "? > To: _AquaticLife@AquaticLife@Aqu_ (mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com) > Date: Tuesday, July 14, 2009, 10:42 AM > grouply is bad, but I forget exactly > why, I think it spams for you or > something... > > Amber > > bill 1433 wrote: > > > > > > > > Ya got me on that one Jim? Maybe Len on here > might know, I've never > > heard of it??? > > Could it just be a typo for "Group"? > > > > Bill > > > > --- On Tue, 7/14/09, Jim Pat. <_Jpateson@..._ (mailto:Jpateson@...) > > > <mailto:Jpateson%mailto:Jp>> wrote: > > > > From: Jim Pat. <_Jpateson@..._ (mailto:Jpateson@...) > <mailto:Jpateson%mailto:Jp>> > > Subject: [AquaticLife] What is "Grouply "? > > To: _AquaticLife@AquaticLife@Aqu_ (mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com) > <mailto:AquaticLifemailto:AquaticLmai> > > Date: Tuesday, July 14, 2009, 9:41 AM > > > > I am being asked by Eric to join "Grouply", is this a > scam or what? > > > > Thanks, > > > > Jim **************An Excellent Credit Score is 750. See Yours in Just 2 Easy Steps! (http://pr.atwola.com/promoclk/100126575x1221323036x1201367247/aol?redir=http://www.freecreditreport.com/pm/default.aspx?sc=668072&hmpgID=62&bcd=Jul yExcfooterNO62) [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 42051	From: biG poppa	Date: 7/14/2009
Subject: Re: What is "Grouply "?

ThanQ for spam filter got the email..from what ever this groupy thing is --- On Tue, 7/14/09, Jpateson@... <Jpateson@...> wrote: From: Jpateson@... <Jpateson@...> Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] What is "Grouply "? To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Date: Tuesday, July 14, 2009, 3:24 PM Lenny, Again thanks, I don't belong to any "social networks" and this in another one to go on my list.. Jim In a message dated 7/14/2009 1:22:26 P.M. Central Daylight Time, GoldLenny@gmail. com writes: Here is what Snopes.com has to say about Grouply. _http://message. http://messhttp: //messhttp: //mess_ (http://message. snopes.com/ showthread. php?t=25770) There are a few new services coming online which are social "networking" sites similar to My Space and Facebook. One of these new services is called "Grouply". Grouply is tapping Yahoo lists and reposting the messages to Grouply members. As soon as ONE list member joins this service, all of our messages will then be archived by Grouply. Grouply changes your email address to (yourname)@grouply. com. for the purpose of your Yahoo list mail only. They will also go into your Yahoo account and change all of your preferences regarding how you view your mail, whether you get individual posts or digests, and whether you can be directly added to any of a million other Yahoo groups. In order to do this, Grouply requires that you give them your Yahoo ID and password. I am truly hoping that most of our members are smart enough not to hand over that information to ANYONE--especially to another web service! There is no guarantee that this information that Grouply is aggregating is secure, thus leaving your sign-in info available to spammers and hackers--including all of our list files and photos. At this point, there is no way for us to block Grouply's access to our list (although that is being worked on). Until there is, I will be checking daily for list members who may have innocently joined Grouply. I will be unsubbing and banning them, plus making direct contact with them explaining why we will not allow this in our membership. They will be welcome to rejoin once they unsub from Grouply. (END SNIP) This review also lists many reference links to other info about Grouply. _http://groups. http://grouhttp: //groupshttp: //grouhttp: //groupshttp: //groups ._ (http://groups. google.com/ group/Google_ Web_Search_ Help-UsingWS/ msg/217d1450f3) b2ca61 While Grouply came on strong and invasive/pervasive when it first came out, it has modified the way it markets itself now. Unfortunately, much damage was done to it's image. When they first came out, as soon as folks joined, they didn't realize it but when they gave Grouply their Yahoo ID and password, Grouply then sent out invitations to everyone in their Yahoo email address book, including to all of the groups that the person belonged to. When this started happening to groups, moderators/owners started blocking/banning and down-talking Grouply. Now, Grouply has more of a feature like MySpace and Facebook where they ask you if you want to notify your friends, instead of doing it without your knowledge (although it was in the small print of the EULA). The downside is that if someone says YES to Grouply, they still send out invites to everyone... which is why members of this group will occasionally get a Grouply invite. There's not much a Group's moderator can do to stop this other than to ban members when it happens but most of the time, it's due to social engineering tht tricks the member into saying YES, rather than the member intentionally spamming a group they may belong to. If a Yahoo Group member decides to join Grouply and then DOES NOT accept the process of inviting friends and simply uses Grouply to read all of their Yahoo Group mail, it would be an acceptable service but Grouply still has their self-promoting and growing part where they try and convince Grouply Members to notifiy their friends... just like MySpace, Facebook and most other Social Networds do. It's really up to the member to NOT allow these "services" access to their email accounts and friend lists. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - _http://GoldLenny. http://Gohtt_ (http://goldlenny. blogspot. com/) (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: _AquaticLife@ AquaticLife@ Aqu_ (mailto:AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com) [mailto:_AquaticLif e@AquaticLife@ Aqu_ (mailto:AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com) ] On Behalf Of bill 1433 Sent: Tuesday, July 14, 2009 10:07 AM To: _AquaticLife@ AquaticLife@ Aqu_ (mailto:AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com) Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] What is "Grouply "? Roger on that Amber but just did a google on it and some distrubing info came back-----NOT GOOD! Here is a cut & paste: "There are a few new services coming online which are social "networking" sites similar to My Space and Facebook. One of these new services is called "Grouply". Grouply is tapping Yahoo lists and reposting the messages to Grouply members. As soon as ONE list member joins this service, all of our messages will then be archived by Grouply. Grouply changes your email address to (yourname)@grouply. com. for the purpose of your Yahoo list mail only. They will also go into your Yahoo account and change all of your preferences regarding how you view your mail, whether you get individual posts or digests, and whether you can be directly added to any of a million other Yahoo groups. In order to do this, Grouply requires that you give them your Yahoo ID and password. I am truly hoping that most of our members are smart enough not to hand over that information to ANYONE--especially to another web service!" I don't think this is something that our members of the group should be into! ol' bill --- On Tue, 7/14/09, Amber Berglund <_arberglund@ gmail.arb_ (mailto:arberglund@gmail. com) > wrote: > From: Amber Berglund <_arberglund@ gmail.arb_ (mailto:arberglund@gmail. com) > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] What is "Grouply "? > To: _AquaticLife@ AquaticLife@ Aqu_ (mailto:AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com) > Date: Tuesday, July 14, 2009, 10:42 AM > grouply is bad, but I forget exactly > why, I think it spams for you or > something... > > Amber > > bill 1433 wrote: > > > > > > > > Ya got me on that one Jim? Maybe Len on here > might know, I've never > > heard of it??? > > Could it just be a typo for "Group"? > > > > Bill > > > > --- On Tue, 7/14/09, Jim Pat. <_Jpateson@aol. Jpa_ (mailto:Jpateson@aol. com) > > > <mailto:Jpateson% mailto:Jp> > wrote: > > > > From: Jim Pat. <_Jpateson@aol. Jpa_ (mailto:Jpateson@aol. com) > <mailto:Jpateson% mailto:Jp> > > > Subject: [AquaticLife] What is "Grouply "? > > To: _AquaticLife@ AquaticLife@ Aqu_ (mailto:AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com) > <mailto:AquaticLife mailto:AquaticLm ai> > > Date: Tuesday, July 14, 2009, 9:41 AM > > > > I am being asked by Eric to join "Grouply", is this a > scam or what? > > > > Thanks, > > > > Jim ************ **An Excellent Credit Score is 750. See Yours in Just 2 Easy Steps! (http://pr.atwola. com/promoclk/ 100126575x122132 3036x1201367247/ aol?redir= http://www. freecreditreport .com/pm/default. aspx?sc=668072& hmpgID=62& bcd=Jul yExcfooterNO62) [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 42052	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 7/14/2009
Subject: Re: Newbie.... Kinda

She's pretty good about keeping up with group emails, LOL. And Thanks Pam, everything arrived in great condition, no DOA's. Now to acclimate ;) LOL Amber klf62972 wrote: > > > HEY PAM!!! :) > Let's take Snails and Platties! What are Plumetails? Where are > youlocated and how do I find out what all you have to offer? > > I think I will like being a part of this group once I become more > active! You guys seem like you have a lot of fun! and New Orleans is > one of my favorite places EVER... I have done my share of support > there since Katrina :) > > Thanks Amber for letting me know that Pam would be right along! You > were right! > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>, pam andress <pamandress23@...> > wrote: > > > > > > All you have to do is say HEY PAM and here I am. lol > > > > > > > > Pam > > > > > > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > From: klf62972@... > > Date: Tue, 14 Jul 2009 14:03:53 +0000 > > Subject: [AquaticLife] Newbie.... Kinda > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Hey Everyone, > > I am Kandi and I live just outside Memphis, TN. I have been in this > group for about a month, but I have just been a "lurker" reading and > looking at pictures with interest. But now I want to chime in! > > I have had tanks since I was 10 years old, and I LOVE fish!! I > currently have two tanks - One is a 29 gal community that has live > plants, 2 Angels, 3 Dwarf Platties, 3 White Mickey Mouse Platties, a > few guppies, 2 Octos, a Pleco, and a few ghost shrimp. My big tank is > a 110 gal with my "bad boys" in there. I have a 12" Bichir, a Long Fin > Tiger Oscar (about 7-8" body), an Albino Oscar (about 6-7" body), a > South American Pike (he is the smallest @ about 6" - but he is by far > the meanest of them all) and a hybrid Red-Tail/Tiger Shovelnose Cat. > > > > Now for why I am posting - > > > > 1. Hey Lenny - Geaux Tigers!! My house is a HUGE LSU party zone for > foolball season! (in fact, my cage of Sugar Gliders have a LSU cage > set coming in August - I will have to share pics with you!) As I was > looking through Amber's pictures of her snails, I was thinking that I > could get the purple ones and then some gold ones :) I can tell you > are a wealth of knowledge! > > > > 2. I want to get in touch with Pam - I have never bought fish/snails > other than locally, and I would love to have some decent quality > snails that will stay alive - everything I have bought from LFS's have > died... Can someone hook me up with her? > > > > Thanks in advance guys! > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 42053	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 7/14/2009
Subject: Re: Question about catfish

The more the merrier they are, LOL. I have 6 albino aeneus cory's and they are quite the active little group, I love to watch them doing whatever it is they are doing all the time ;) LOL Amber Gail wrote: > > > I was talked into Corydoras for a catfish. I have some Emerald Cory's > and I was sold on them, when I was told how "durable & withstanding" > they are. They are also great bottom feeders (that don't eat the other > fish - unless they die and they stay on the bottom). Maybe talk to the > other members, I know many of the members here have shoals of Corys. I > personally only have 3 and a Pictus. > I also think that Corys are really fun to watch. They kind of play > around in the tank when they are not foraging. :) > > -gail > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On > > Behalf Of grdnfan243@... > > Sent: Sunday, July 12, 2009 10:02 AM > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Question about catfish > > > > are there any catfish that stay miniature or small? > > > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 42054	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 7/14/2009
Subject: In case Pam doesn't get back to me in time.

Question for you guys and gals out there. Pam sent me some albino BN pleco's (a male and a female), well the male has some very young babies in the bag with him that he didn't eat on the trip here. Should I add them to the same tank with him or put them in a "safer" community tank only? I could put them in my algaefied 10 gallon fry tank with 1 guppy fry in it... Or I could put them in the 55 gallon community tank, but it has full grown guppy and danio's that might eat the babies, but it is well planted... Otherwise they're going into the 125 gallon where lots of things could possibly eat them ;) Amber

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 42055	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 7/14/2009
Subject: Speaking of pleco's

They are really hard to coerce out of baggies ;) Empty or not... I'm trying to figure out how I'm going to get the male out without getting the tiny babies out... they look like they aren't that old Pam ;) LOL How old are they anyways? What do I feed them? Will my gel food work? LOL Amber

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 42056	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 7/14/2009
Subject: Speaking of Pleco's

I think I'll just stick the dad in the community tank with the babies for now, I think it's safer in there and all the filter's have sponge's on 'em. Mom will have to hang out alone for now in the 125 gallon ;) Amber

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 42057	From: biG poppa	Date: 7/14/2009
Subject: Re: In case Pam doesn't get back to me in time.

Is there alot of hiding places in the 10g amber if so i think they should go in there (lucky you got some plecos) --- On Tue, 7/14/09, Amber Berglund <arberglund@...> wrote: From: Amber Berglund <arberglund@...> Subject: [AquaticLife] In case Pam doesn't get back to me in time. To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Date: Tuesday, July 14, 2009, 6:36 PM Question for you guys and gals out there. Pam sent me some albino BN pleco's (a male and a female), well the male has some very young babies in the bag with him that he didn't eat on the trip here. Should I add them to the same tank with him or put them in a "safer" community tank only? I could put them in my algaefied 10 gallon fry tank with 1 guppy fry in it... Or I could put them in the 55 gallon community tank, but it has full grown guppy and danio's that might eat the babies, but it is well planted... Otherwise they're going into the 125 gallon where lots of things could possibly eat them ;) Amber [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 42058	From: bill 1433	Date: 7/14/2009
Subject: Re: Speaking of pleco's And Bill's Questions----i hope?

I'm sorry ladies but now you have my curiosity up!!!!!! What did Pam send? How did she send it? From where to where and how did they all arrive? Len must be on a mission, this has to be killing him too and I'm saving him the typing of it! Bill --- On Tue, 7/14/09, Amber Berglund <arberglund@...> wrote: > From: Amber Berglund <arberglund@...> > Subject: [AquaticLife] Speaking of pleco's > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Date: Tuesday, July 14, 2009, 6:47 PM > They are really hard to coerce out of > baggies ;) Empty or not... > I'm trying to figure out how I'm going to get the male out > without > getting the tiny babies out... they look like they aren't > that old Pam > ;) LOL How old are they anyways? What do I feed them? Will > my gel food > work? LOL > > Amber > > > ------------------------------------ > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when > replying, Thank You. > ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> > ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> > PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is > NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of > the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new > subject (was re: old subject)" <- > <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. > , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. > > If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of > unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by > clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the home page.  > > Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com > to receive the digest, which includes up to 25 posts at a > time in a single email > > Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com > for the No E-Mail option where you will still be able to > read messages on the group and post replies. > > Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com > to receive individual e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links > > >     mailto:AquaticLife-fullfeatured@yahoogroups.com > > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 42059	From: biG poppa	Date: 7/14/2009
Subject: Re: Speaking of pleco's And Bill's Questions----i hope?

I like a good mystery...lol@len on a mission --- On Tue, 7/14/09, bill 1433 <warrenprint@...> wrote: From: bill 1433 <warrenprint@...> Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Speaking of pleco's And Bill's Questions----i hope? To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Date: Tuesday, July 14, 2009, 7:02 PM I'm sorry ladies but now you have my curiosity up!!!!!! What did Pam send? How did she send it? From where to where and how did they all arrive? Len must be on a mission, this has to be killing him too and I'm saving him the typing of it! Bill --- On Tue, 7/14/09, Amber Berglund <arberglund@gmail. com> wrote: > From: Amber Berglund <arberglund@gmail. com> > Subject: [AquaticLife] Speaking of pleco's > To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com > Date: Tuesday, July 14, 2009, 6:47 PM > They are really hard to coerce out of > baggies ;) Empty or not... > I'm trying to figure out how I'm going to get the male out > without > getting the tiny babies out... they look like they aren't > that old Pam > ;) LOL How old are they anyways? What do I feed them? Will > my gel food > work? LOL > > Amber > > > ------------ --------- --------- ------ > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when > replying, Thank You. > ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> > ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> > PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is > NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of > the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new > subject (was re: old subject)" <- > <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. > , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. > > If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of > unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by > clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the home page.  > > Or e-mail aquaticlife- digest@yahoogrou ps.com > to receive the digest, which includes up to 25 posts at a > time in a single email > > Or email aquaticlife- nomail@yahoogrou ps.com > for the No E-Mail option where you will still be able to > read messages on the group and post replies. > > Or email aquaticlife- normal@yahoogrou ps.com > to receive individual e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links > > >     mailto:AquaticLife- fullfeatured@ yahoogroups. com > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 42060	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 7/14/2009
Subject: Re: In case Pam doesn't get back to me in time.

The 55 gallon has the most hiding spots, so I put them there. I got 3 BN brown pleco's, 2 albino's and some fry, 2 plume tail platties one black one orange, LOL. It's okay Pam they're cute. I got 15 or so Snails in mixed colors and yes Pam your purple ones are pretty like the other's I got so don't worry ;) And I got some cherry shrimp for my 55 gallon community tank too. Most of the purple snails went in there too, LOL. I put all the bigger snails in the 125 gallon and 1 of the albino pleco's (female I assume as the male was with the babies), and all the small mystery snails in my fry tank with my 1 guppy fry. I'm planning on moving him soon he's no longer a fry, but he's keeping the tank cycled ;) LOL. I didn't forget anything did I Pam? LOL She sent them to me on my fed ex account so I got a major discount 75% off. From Indiana to Alaska, woohoo ;) LOL. Amber biG poppa wrote: > > > Is there alot of hiding places in the 10g amber if so i think they > should go in there > (lucky you got some plecos) > > --- On Tue, 7/14/09, Amber Berglund <arberglund@... > <mailto:arberglund%40gmail.com>> wrote: > > From: Amber Berglund <arberglund@... > <mailto:arberglund%40gmail.com>> > Subject: [AquaticLife] In case Pam doesn't get back to me in time. > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Date: Tuesday, July 14, 2009, 6:36 PM > > Question for you guys and gals out there. > Pam sent me some albino BN pleco's (a male and a female), well the male > has some very young babies in the bag with him that he didn't eat on the > trip here. Should I add them to the same tank with him or put them in a > "safer" community tank only? I could put them in my algaefied 10 gallon > fry tank with 1 guppy fry in it... Or I could put them in the 55 gallon > community tank, but it has full grown guppy and danio's that might eat > the babies, but it is well planted... Otherwise they're going into the > 125 gallon where lots of things could possibly eat them ;) > > Amber > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 42061	From: biG poppa	Date: 7/14/2009
Subject: Re: In case Pam doesn't get back to me in time.

like i said amber lucky you hope you enjoy them..I love cherry shrimps..... --- On Tue, 7/14/09, Amber Berglund <arberglund@...> wrote: From: Amber Berglund <arberglund@...> Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] In case Pam doesn't get back to me in time. To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Date: Tuesday, July 14, 2009, 7:21 PM The 55 gallon has the most hiding spots, so I put them there. I got 3 BN brown pleco's, 2 albino's and some fry, 2 plume tail platties one black one orange, LOL. It's okay Pam they're cute. I got 15 or so Snails in mixed colors and yes Pam your purple ones are pretty like the other's I got so don't worry ;) And I got some cherry shrimp for my 55 gallon community tank too. Most of the purple snails went in there too, LOL. I put all the bigger snails in the 125 gallon and 1 of the albino pleco's (female I assume as the male was with the babies), and all the small mystery snails in my fry tank with my 1 guppy fry. I'm planning on moving him soon he's no longer a fry, but he's keeping the tank cycled ;) LOL. I didn't forget anything did I Pam? LOL She sent them to me on my fed ex account so I got a major discount 75% off. From Indiana to Alaska, woohoo ;) LOL. Amber biG poppa wrote: > > > Is there alot of hiding places in the 10g amber if so i think they > should go in there > (lucky you got some plecos) > > --- On Tue, 7/14/09, Amber Berglund <arberglund@gmail. com > <mailto:arberglund% 40gmail.com> > wrote: > > From: Amber Berglund <arberglund@gmail. com > <mailto:arberglund% 40gmail.com> > > Subject: [AquaticLife] In case Pam doesn't get back to me in time. > To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com <mailto:AquaticLife %40yahoogroups. com> > Date: Tuesday, July 14, 2009, 6:36 PM > > Question for you guys and gals out there. > Pam sent me some albino BN pleco's (a male and a female), well the male > has some very young babies in the bag with him that he didn't eat on the > trip here. Should I add them to the same tank with him or put them in a > "safer" community tank only? I could put them in my algaefied 10 gallon > fry tank with 1 guppy fry in it... Or I could put them in the 55 gallon > community tank, but it has full grown guppy and danio's that might eat > the babies, but it is well planted... Otherwise they're going into the > 125 gallon where lots of things could possibly eat them ;) > > Amber > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 42062	From: bill 1433	Date: 7/14/2009
Subject: Re: In case Pam doesn't get back to me in time.

and the last question from the peanut-gallery? Speed, what was the travel time? Sorry, not trying to be "nosey" honest! I'm trying to learn! I might need to do this very thing and would like at least some of my ducks in a row! ol' bill-----ol'dog trying to learn new tricks! Thanks Ladies. --- On Tue, 7/14/09, Amber Berglund <arberglund@...> wrote: > From: Amber Berglund <arberglund@...> > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] In case Pam doesn't get back to me in time. > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Date: Tuesday, July 14, 2009, 7:21 PM > The 55 gallon has the most hiding > spots, so I put them there. > I got 3 BN brown pleco's, 2 albino's and some fry, 2 plume > tail platties > one black one orange, LOL. It's okay Pam they're cute. > I got 15 or so Snails in mixed colors and yes Pam your > purple ones are > pretty like the other's I got so don't worry ;) > And I got some cherry shrimp for my 55 gallon community > tank too. Most > of the purple snails went in there too, LOL. > I put all the bigger snails in the 125 gallon and 1 of the > albino > pleco's (female I assume as the male was with the babies), > and all the > small mystery snails in my fry tank with my 1 guppy fry. > I'm planning on > moving him soon he's no longer a fry, but he's keeping the > tank cycled > ;) LOL. > I didn't forget anything did I Pam? LOL > She sent them to me on my fed ex account so I got a major > discount 75% > off. From Indiana to Alaska, woohoo ;) LOL. > > Amber > > biG poppa wrote: > > > > > > Is there alot of hiding places in the 10g amber if so > i think they > > should go in there > > (lucky you got some plecos) > > > > --- On Tue, 7/14/09, Amber Berglund <arberglund@... > > > <mailto:arberglund%40gmail.com>> wrote: > > > > From: Amber Berglund <arberglund@... > > > <mailto:arberglund%40gmail.com>> > > Subject: [AquaticLife] In case Pam doesn't get back to > me in time. > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > Date: Tuesday, July 14, 2009, 6:36 PM > > > > Question for you guys and gals out there. > > Pam sent me some albino BN pleco's (a male and a > female), well the male > > has some very young babies in the bag with him that he > didn't eat on the > > trip here. Should I add them to the same tank with him > or put them in a > > "safer" community tank only? I could put them in my > algaefied 10 gallon > > fry tank with 1 guppy fry in it... Or I could put them > in the 55 gallon > > community tank, but it has full grown guppy and > danio's that might eat > > the babies, but it is well planted... Otherwise > they're going into the > > 125 gallon where lots of things could possibly eat > them ;) > > > > Amber > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > > > > ------------------------------------ > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when > replying, Thank You. > ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> > ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> > PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is > NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of > the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new > subject (was re: old subject)" <- > <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. > , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. > > If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of > unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by > clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the home page.  > > Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com > to receive the digest, which includes up to 25 posts at a > time in a single email > > Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com > for the No E-Mail option where you will still be able to > read messages on the group and post replies. > > Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com > to receive individual e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links > > >     mailto:AquaticLife-fullfeatured@yahoogroups.com > > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 42063	From: Gwydryn@aol.com	Date: 7/14/2009
Subject: Re: In case Pam doesn't get back to me in time.

In a message dated 7/14/2009 6:34:20 P.M. Central Daylight Time, arberglund@... writes: 2 plume tail platties one black one orange, LOL. It's okay Pam they're cute. Amber; Can you post pictures of the plumetail platties? Curiosity is killing me... Oh, what the heck, pictures of the whole haul! Enid "Life is not about waiting for the storms to pass...it's about learning how to dance in the rain." **************An Excellent Credit Score is 750. See Yours in Just 2 Easy Steps! (http://pr.atwola.com/promoclk/100126575x1221323036x1201367247/aol?redir=http://www.freecreditreport.com/pm/default.aspx?sc=668072&hmpgID=62&bcd=Jul yExcfooterNO62) [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 42064	From: pam andress	Date: 7/14/2009
Subject: Re: Newbie.... Kinda

Plumetail platies have a tail that comes out from their regular tail. I have orange and black ones. lol I also have cherry shrimp, some mystery snails, BN plecos (mostly brown), and endlers. I'm breeding black moscow gupppies, red guppies, cories, discus, and shellies, but none of those are available yet. I'm actually trying to get out of the snails. I just had about 6 clutches hatch and I want to get rid of all the BIG snails, so they don't lay any more. My Brown BN male is sitting on eggs and my albino male has newly hatched babies in his cave. My discus just laid eggs AGAIN, but I'm expecting them to eat them AGAIN. :( I have 1 new pepper cory and I think 1 new panda cory. They are tiny. I live in Indiana and I do sell occasionally on aquabid. I do side deal though like with Amber. :) Pam Aquabid name is UCDXMisty HEY PAM!!! :) Let's take Snails and Platties! What are Plumetails? Where are youlocated and how do I find out what all you have to offer? I think I will like being a part of this group once I become more active! You guys seem like you have a lot of fun! and New Orleans is one of my favorite places EVER... I have done my share of support there since Katrina :) Thanks Amber for letting me know that Pam would be right along! You were right! --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, pam andress <pamandress23@...> wrote: > > > All you have to do is say HEY PAM and here I am. lol > > > > Pam > > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > From: klf62972@... > Date: Tue, 14 Jul 2009 14:03:53 +0000 > Subject: [AquaticLife] Newbie.... Kinda > > > > > > > > Hey Everyone, > I am Kandi and I live just outside Memphis, TN. I have been in this group for about a month, but I have just been a "lurker" reading and looking at pictures with interest. But now I want to chime in! > I have had tanks since I was 10 years old, and I LOVE fish!! I currently have two tanks - One is a 29 gal community that has live plants, 2 Angels, 3 Dwarf Platties, 3 White Mickey Mouse Platties, a few guppies, 2 Octos, a Pleco, and a few ghost shrimp. My big tank is a 110 gal with my "bad boys" in there. I have a 12" Bichir, a Long Fin Tiger Oscar (about 7-8" body), an Albino Oscar (about 6-7" body), a South American Pike (he is the smallest @ about 6" - but he is by far the meanest of them all) and a hybrid Red-Tail/Tiger Shovelnose Cat. > > Now for why I am posting - > > 1. Hey Lenny - Geaux Tigers!! My house is a HUGE LSU party zone for foolball season! (in fact, my cage of Sugar Gliders have a LSU cage set coming in August - I will have to share pics with you!) As I was looking through Amber's pictures of her snails, I was thinking that I could get the purple ones and then some gold ones :) I can tell you are a wealth of knowledge! > > 2. I want to get in touch with Pam - I have never bought fish/snails other than locally, and I would love to have some decent quality snails that will stay alive - everything I have bought from LFS's have died... Can someone hook me up with her? > > Thanks in advance guys! > > > > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 42065	From: pam andress	Date: 7/14/2009
Subject: Re: Speaking of pleco's

Those babies are actually too young to eat. They still have their yoke sacks. They will find something in the tank, don't worry about food for them. They are about 2 days old. For those of you wondering why I shipped them, I found them in the bag after I tied it up. The pleco I was catching swam into the cave with the dad and I dumped it out into a net. I didn't know the eggs had hatched yet. I didn't feel like trying to get them out of the bag and figured if they made it alive, it was extras for Amber. :) Pam To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com From: arberglund@... Date: Tue, 14 Jul 2009 14:47:37 -0800 Subject: [AquaticLife] Speaking of pleco's They are really hard to coerce out of baggies ;) Empty or not... I'm trying to figure out how I'm going to get the male out without getting the tiny babies out... they look like they aren't that old Pam ;) LOL How old are they anyways? What do I feed them? Will my gel food work? LOL Amber [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 42066	From: pam andress	Date: 7/14/2009
Subject: Re: In case Pam doesn't get back to me in time.

These where shipped overnight Fed Ex. I do ship priorty too and haven't had any trouble so far if they make it in 2-3 days. Pam and the last question from the peanut-gallery? Speed, what was the travel time? Sorry, not trying to be "nosey" honest! I'm trying to learn! I might need to do this very thing and would like at least some of my ducks in a row! ol' bill-----ol'dog trying to learn new tricks! Thanks Ladies. . [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 42067	From: Raymond Wetzel	Date: 7/14/2009
Subject: Re: Tank Maintenance

Okay, beam me up, Scotty! Forgot Furlong, League and Chain. Furlong = 660 Feet Chain = 66 Feet League = 3 Miles (average), but variable by country So when Jules Verne had his Nautilus diving to 20,000 Leagues under the sea, he was really writing about his sub being 60,000 miles beneath the surface. Had to be on Jupitor, as he couldn't have been on Earth. Ray --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Steve Szabo" <steve@...> wrote: > > What? No parsec? A parsec is a unit of measure for interstellar space that is equal to 3.26 light-years and is the distance to an object having a parallax of one second as seen from points separated by one astronomical unit. > > \\Steve// > > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Raymond Wetzel > Sent: Monday, July 13, 2009 10:34 AM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Tank Maintenance > > Okay, I'll give you that one (LOL). Right, there are still people who don't know what Lincoln was referring to in his Gettysburg address when he said "Four score and seven years ago . . . " (a score meaning 20 years). But, do you know what "flock" means in the context of time? > > A flock is 2 score (40 years); I guess Lincoln could have said "Two flock and seven years ago . . ." (LOL). BTW, did you know these other time measurements: > > Atomus = "a twinkling of the eye" - 1/376 minute (160 milliseconds). > > Blink = 0.864 second > > Jerk = 0.3048 m/sec3 > > Jiffy = (in computer engineering) - 0.01 second, or - 33.3564 picoseconds. > > Moment = 1/40 hour, or 1.5 minutes > > Wanted to mention a few measures of distance here as well, which not too many people know about, like "Hecter" (Hectare), "Rod" and "Fathom." My "all-time" favorite is one I'm sure you're well aware of, with living on the Big Muddy. We both know that Samuel Clemens' pen name was "Mark Twain" but I'm sure not very many people know what this term refers to. "Twain" was an old term for "Two" -- on the Mississippi, the riverboats had to take new soundings to make a new chart whenever the channel would change after a big flood, and they used a rope (with weight) that had knots tied in it at every Fathom (Fathom = 6 Feet). They had to make sure that when they took soundings, that these ropes would show at least 12 Feet (2 Fathoms) as that was the draught of the riverboats -- hence, "Mark Twain" or Two Marks (Two Knots). Ray > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@> wrote: > > > > "Getting back to "fortnight," Lenny are you sure you didn't just do another > > Google on Wikipedia for that (LOL)? Ray" > > > > Nope... I knew what "fortnight" was and "four score and seven years" too. > > > > Of course, when my brother and I would turn our beds into "forts", that > > could be called "fortnight" too. ;-) > > > > Of course, whoever stuck their head out from under the sheet lost the > > "Turtle Game". And I'm not pulling your finger... ooops.. I meant leg, with > > that one either! ;-) > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > > (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right > > side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On > > Behalf Of Raymond Wetzel > > Sent: Sunday, July 12, 2009 3:44 PM > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Tank Maintenance > > > > \\Steve//, I believe you're 100% right -- there was no work done on the > > nitrogen cycle until the 1970's as far as I know. Just as you're saying > > though, we knew enough (for whatever reason) to do weekly PWC's by the > > '60's. I'm inclined to believe this may have been due because we realized > > ammonia could build up, even if we didn't yet know about the cycle -- and I > > think we may have learned about growth-inhibiting hormones building up. > > > > During my formative years in the tropical fish hobby from the early 1950's > > on, and into the '60's, I never read a thing on the nitrogen cycle -- and I > > made sure to buy a copy of Dr. Innes' "The Aquarium" magazine each and every > > month. This was a subject that nobody knew about -- or if it was known > > about in public aquariums perhaps (and that remains unknown), the topic was > > never discussed in the hobby and it seems as though even those publishers > > and their authors of the hobby magazines at the time knew nothing about it; > > and some of those magazines (such as "Aquarium Journal") had leading > > ichthyologists of the day writing in their publications -- who are still > > well respected until this day as leaders in this field. > > > > Before having tropical fish, I was given goldfish in an 8 gallon homemade > > metal-framed tank back in the late 1940's. At the time, I was instructed by > > my parents to "clean" them every month by removing the fish, plants and > > snails to a small bowl, removing all the water in the tank and thoroughly > > washing the gravel. Then, the tank was set up again with "spankin' clean" > > gravel and all new water into which the fish were placed back into -- good > > for another month. This was the same maintenance procedure that my mother > > used 20 years before that when my grandmother had goldfish during the 1920's > > as that was the normal, recognized way of taking care of goldfish (and no > > dechlorinator was ever used). > > > > Now, as at least we all knew back then, tropical fish were not as hardy as > > goldfish and needed different care, but too, by then it was "realized" even > > back during the 1930's that there was nothing better for your tropical fish > > than "old water," which was prized. Just as you're saying, once we set up a > > tank it was never disturbed -- and our goal was to create a "balanced > > aquarium." This concept was even taught in biology books of that day, in > > high school, and certainly in the hobby magazines and books. We didn't do > > regular weekly PWC's as that would mean we'd be throwing out good aged water > > -- but we did have dip tubes to use for cleaning the gravel, which just > > entailed getting the mulm (fish waste, etc.) off of the gravel's surface, > > removing dead leaves off the bottom, etc. A certain amount of this mulm was > > also prized as it meant for good plant fertilizer. The plants grew and the > > fish remained healthy. We were careful not to overfeed, and to not allow > > excess food falling to the substrate as we knew the consequences of foul > > gravel building up over time. > > > > Considering this consequence, a "gravel cleaning" was done about every six > > months, by using a planting stick to stir up the top layer of the gravel > > after which about a 25% PWC was done to remove as much gunk as was > > practical, but this water change was not done with keeping regular > > maintenance in mind but only as a means of getting rid of this debris. > > Depending on the fish we kept, and the hardness of our tap water, some of us > > cut our tap water with rain or snow water as was written about in the > > "latest" literature of the time. Topping off with tap water was done > > between these time, to replace evaporation -- full hoods were never > > especially promoted. As you said though, tanks were never completely broken > > down, unless a new set up was planned. We did use filters, which obviously > > must have given us our nitrogen cycles even though we never knew it, but > > power filters were not invented yet until 1955 -- and even then -- no one > > could afford them until the prices on them started to come down several > > years later (I didn't have power filters until at least 1960). So, until > > then, ALL filters were air driven. Oddly enough, such tanks flourished > > after being set up like this for years. We never heard of a "pH crash" > > either (and NEVER lost fish as a result of the possibility). > > > > When first setting up a new tank and even for some time afterwards, we NEVER > > had "new-tank-syndrome." As for stocking the tanks, we NEVER knew to wait 6 > > weeks -- we ALWAYS stocked the tanks within a day or two (if not, the same > > day) of first setting it up -- and we NEVER lost a fish due to ammonia or > > nitrite poisoning as a result of a tank not be cycled. Never even had a > > fish get sick as a result of excess nitrate, surprisingly enough. I guess > > the fish never knew about the nitrogen cycle either, so there was no reason > > to even be cautious of it. They (the fish) must have read the same books > > and magazines as we did, which was why we never knew to be concerned about > > the cycle, luckily. As they say -- "What you don't know, won't hurt you." > > We didn't know about the cycle, and it never hurt us, nor ever killed a > > fish; it was if the nitrogen cycle never existed back then as far as being > > something needed to keep fish. Certainly we never bothered with it, not > > having known about it. We did always use a dechlorinator though. > > > > Getting back to "fortnight," Lenny are you sure you didn't just do another > > Google on Wikipedia for that (LOL)? Ray > > > > > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Steve Szabo" <steve@> wrote: > > > > > > As for water changes, I can remember in the early 60's trying to > > > remember doing weekly water changes in my tank and being chided for > > > forgetting (hey, I was a kid--there were a lot of important things to > > > tend to, like bike riding in the warm weather, sliding in the cold, > > > playing basketball and baseball, and generally trying to be out of the > > > house more than I was in). In the later 60's the memory is a bit fuzzy. > > > I seem to remember a lot of mud and rain and good music at some place > > > in NY, Wells Street in Chicago, Rolling Stones, Cream, Vanilla Fudge, > > > Frigid Pink, Pink Floyd, going to a prom in jeans and tails with > > > flowers in my hair, and some other things best left unsaid in mixed > > company. > > > > > > Back then, no one knew of the nitrogen cycle. I do not think any real > > > work on the topic was done until the 70's (is that correct Ray?) and > > > it did take a while for the word to get out. > > > > > > The only times I recall breaking down tanks was to move them, or to > > > completely re-do them with new fish and plants. The mythical beast > > > back then was the "balanced aquarium" where a combination of fish, > > > plants, and filtration would establish a "balance" that would maintain > > > the fish and aquarium in good condition, and, perhaps, even allow for > > breeding. > > > What, it seems, this really was that we had established a cycle in > > > such a tank, though we did not know or understand it at the time. > > > Tearing down a tank would disrupt this (as we obviously know today) > > > and so was not done unless needed. A benign neglect was the watchword of > > the day. > > > > > > \\Steve// > > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] > > > On Behalf Of Lenny V. aka GoldLenny > > > Sent: Sunday, July 12, 2009 10:22 AM > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Tank Maintenance > > > > > > How long is a fortnight? Just kidding... I know it's 14 days but > > > fortnight isn't used very often any longer up here. Is it still a > > > common term down under? > > > > > > While many of us preach and practice doing PWC's, gravel vacuuming and > > > filter maintenance at least once a week, if the bioload on a tank is > > > small, then going two weeks could be OK. > > > > > > It really depends on the bioload of the tank and how long you think > > > it's OK for the fish to be stuck in a tank full of fish poop and pee? > > > In the "old days" (you know... like when Ray and Bill and \\Steve// > > > started keeping fish <BG>), it was common to do tank maintenance once > > > a month and many instructional type books had folks completely > > > breaking down their tanks on a monthly basis or every few months. Of > > > course, most folks back then didn't know how the nitrogen cycle worked > > > in aquaria and how all of the rest of the tanks microbiological > > > ecology affected the water quality and why it WAS NOT a good thing to > > > completely break down the tank like that. > > > > > > Further, while fish pool comes out reasonably solid, after a short > > > while in the tank, it starts to break down. Once it breaks down, it > > > dilutes into the water column so at that point the fish are now > > > swimming around in diluted diarrhea. I know... DISGUSTING... but it's > > > true. By doing weekly gravel vacuums, you are getting most of the > > > fish poop up while it's still solid and down on the bottom After a > > > week, you are forcing the fish to swim around in their liquefied poo. > > > This is why I preach and practice doing weekly (or more frequent) tank > > > and filter maintenance. > > > > > > Do we all slip up sometimes... yep, absolutely, guilty-as-charged... > > > but if we decide to start doing tank maintenance every two weeks and > > > then we slip up, then it's three weeks or four weeks before tank > > > maintenance gets done so the fish are forced to live and breath their > > > own liquefied fish poo for an even longer period of time. > > > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles > > > referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically > > > under Labels and also under Archives by Year, > > > Month) > > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] > > > On > > > Behalf Of Lisa > > > Sent: Sunday, July 12, 2009 5:43 AM > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > > Subject: [AquaticLife] Tank Maintenance > > > > > > I was just wondering, is it absolutly neccecery to do s gravel vac as > > > well as a pwc each week? or could i get away with just doing weekily > > > pwc's and a GV every fortnight > > > > > > Thanks > > > Lisa > > > > > > > ------------------------------------ > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. > ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> > PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- > <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. > > If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the home page. > > Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com to receive the digest, which includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email > > Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com for the No E-Mail option where you will still be able to read messages on the group and post replies. > > Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com to receive individual e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 42068	From: jasmine swann	Date: 7/14/2009
Subject: Re: Silver angle laid eggs

LOL Amber Kind of like a Parana..... LOL Jasmine ____________________________________________________________________________________ Access Yahoo!7 Mail on your mobile. Anytime. Anywhere. Show me how: http://au.mobile.yahoo.com/mail [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 42069	From: Raymond Wetzel	Date: 7/14/2009
Subject: Re: Silver angle laid eggs

Hi Jasmine, Good to see you back with a post. Been meaning to give you a reply but it's been one of those days that's been non-stop (still not finished -- got to change water). Hope all's been well. If I remember right, the Yellow Koi Angel paired up with the Marble. So, the Silver Angel spawned on her own, huh? A PWC usually will trigger a spawning if the fish are about ready. It's not often that an Angel will spawn on its own. The presence of the male (the Marble) may have had something to do with it even though there was no pair bond between those two fish. Angelfish behavior will never cease to surprise you. Speaking of which, it's quite a surprise that all 3 Angels are swimming around together peacefully -- especially since the pair must have been stimulated by the PWC too. Maybe they learned not to bite the hand that feeds them, so they're just waiting for another caviar dinner (LOL). Too bad about the small white guy. Hard to say just how and when that happened with its eyes, but as was already pointed out, if the Silver was actively defending the eggs before she got overwhelmed by the pair, she could have gone straight for the eyes and the little one may have not suspected that move. On the other hand, maybe it died first (could have died as a result of being rammed), and the eyes may have been pecked at afterwards. In eother case, sorry about your loss. Thanks for cluing me in as to what's going on with your tanks. My cold's about gone (thanks for asking), glad to hear you're doing okay now. Ray --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Jasmine" <adonaikam@...> wrote: > > Hey Ray > > The strangest thing happened a few days ago. After I did the partial water change and moved a few objects around in the tank the Yellow Kio angel stopped harassing and chasing the silver angle. > > We noticed that all 3 adult angles seem to swim around quite peacefully - it has been nice to see. However, yesterday I noticed that the silver angle had a tube or something hanging down from its abdomen which after a couple of hours I suspected it may have been her tube for her eggs. So I just thought that in 3 days she may start laying eggs. But to our surprise, while eating dinner last night I noticed she was doing some strange things. Surprise surprise - she was laying eggs. The eggs didn't last long as they were all gobbled up fast. > > I did manage to get a few digital movies of the whole egg incident though - not sure if I can post movies on here. Today, all is back to normal. No harassment and no tube hanging under the female silver angle. > > We did manage to loose our little white angle though last night. It was alive when we were watching the angle lay eggs but when I was heading off to bed I noticed it drifting in the tank with no eyes - eww - poor thing. > > Just thought I'd let you know. > > > Oh, how is your cold going? > Mine is almost over. Back to work next week. > > Cheers > Jasmine >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 42070	From: Gilbert	Date: 7/14/2009
Subject: Re: What is "Grouply "?

What is this? I've been asked by sabir to be friends in grouply. Of course I denied, since it sounds suspicious. I don't trust what I don't know and check out first. there's an option on the bottom of the email to block invites so I did. it came up as a email to grouply and I just put "Block Invites" in the body of my message. I hope I didn't mess up by sending that email...:( --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, Eric Roberts <woad@...> wrote: > > Grouply is evil...do not reply to it. They scam your login and password on > yahoo and spam the hell out of all your groups. Yahoo has something about > groupy on thier site, I am sure a quick search will find it as I don;t > remeber where it is offhand. > Eric (not the one that sent the invite *grin*) > > On Tue, Jul 14, 2009 at 5:08 PM, <jan1213@...> wrote: > > > > > > > All I know is do not reply........................most news group will drop > > > > you if you join....I think they will ask you for your password. Jan > > > > > > In a message dated 7/14/2009 10:18:24 A.M. Eastern Daylight Time, > > warrenprint@... <warrenprint%40yahoo.com> writes: > > > > Ya got me on that one Jim? Maybe Len on here might know, I've never heard > > of it??? > > Could it just be a typo for "Group"? > > > > Bill > > > > --- On Tue, 7/14/09, Jim Pat. <_Jpateson@... <_Jpateson%40aol.Jpa>_ > > (mailto:Jpateson@... <Jpateson%40aol.com>) > > > wrote: > > > > From: Jim Pat. <_Jpateson@... <_Jpateson%40aol.Jpa>_ (mailto: > > Jpateson@... <Jpateson%40aol.com>) > > > Subject: [AquaticLife] What is "Grouply "? > > To: _AquaticLife@AquaticLife@Aqu_ (mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com<AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>) > > > > Date: Tuesday, July 14, 2009, 9:41 AM > > > > I am being asked by Eric to join "Grouply", is this a scam or what? > > > > Thanks, > > > > Jim > > > > ------------------------------------ > > > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. > > ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> > > PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to > > the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the > > SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- > > <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. > > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. > > > > If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of unsubscribing, you > > can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the > > home page. > > > > Or e-mail _aquaticlife-aquaticlife-<WBRaquati_ > > (mailto:aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com<aquaticlife-digest%40yahoogroups.com>) > > to receive the digest, which includes up to 25 posts at a > > time in a single email > > > > Or email _aquaticlife-aquaticlife-<WBRaquati_ > > (mailto:aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com<aquaticlife-nomail%40yahoogroups.com>) > > for the No E-Mail option where you will still be able to > > read messages on the group and post replies. > > > > Or email _aquaticlife-aquaticlife-<WBRaquati_ > > (mailto:aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com<aquaticlife-normal%40yahoogroups.com>) > > to receive individual e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > **************An Excellent Credit Score is 750. See Yours in Just 2 Easy > > Steps! > > ( > > http://pr.atwola.com/promoclk/100126575x1221323036x1201367247/aol?redir=http://www.freecreditreport.com/pm/default.aspx?sc=668072&hmpgID=62&bcd=Jul > > yExcfooterNO62) > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 42071	From: harry perry	Date: 7/14/2009
Subject: Re: What is "Grouply "?/Gilbert

I used the "block invite" option and it worked for me. I think I had to do it twice before it finally worked. Harry --- On Tue, 7/14/09, Gilbert <grodhi96792@...> wrote: From: Gilbert <grodhi96792@...> Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: What is "Grouply "? To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Date: Tuesday, July 14, 2009, 8:48 PM What is this? I've been asked by sabir to be friends in grouply. Of course I denied, since it sounds suspicious. I don't trust what I don't know and check out first. there's an option on the bottom of the email to block invites so I did. it came up as a email to grouply and I just put "Block Invites" in the body of my message. I hope I didn't mess up by sending that email...:( --- In AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com, Eric Roberts <woad@...> wrote: > > Grouply is evil...do not reply to it. They scam your login and password on > yahoo and spam the hell out of all your groups. Yahoo has something about > groupy on thier site, I am sure a quick search will find it as I don;t > remeber where it is offhand. > Eric (not the one that sent the invite *grin*) > > On Tue, Jul 14, 2009 at 5:08 PM, <jan1213@... > wrote: > > > > > > > All I know is do not reply....... ......... ........most news group will drop > > > > you if you join....I think they will ask you for your password. Jan > > > > > > In a message dated 7/14/2009 10:18:24 A.M. Eastern Daylight Time, > > warrenprint@ ... <warrenprint% 40yahoo.com> writes: > > > > Ya got me on that one Jim? Maybe Len on here might know, I've never heard > > of it??? > > Could it just be a typo for "Group"? > > > > Bill > > > > --- On Tue, 7/14/09, Jim Pat. <_Jpateson@. .. <_Jpateson%40aol. Jpa>_ > > (mailto:Jpateson@ ... <Jpateson%40aol. com>) > > > wrote: > > > > From: Jim Pat. <_Jpateson@. .. <_Jpateson%40aol. Jpa>_ (mailto: > > Jpateson@... <Jpateson%40aol. com>) > > > Subject: [AquaticLife] What is "Grouply "? > > To: _AquaticLife@ AquaticLife@ Aqu_ (mailto:AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com<AquaticLife% 40yahoogroups. com>) > > > > Date: Tuesday, July 14, 2009, 9:41 AM > > > > I am being asked by Eric to join "Grouply", is this a scam or what? > > > > Thanks, > > > > Jim > > > > ------------ --------- --------- ------ > > > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. > > ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> > > PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to > > the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the > > SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- > > <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. > > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. > > > > If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of unsubscribing, you > > can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the > > home page. > > > > Or e-mail _aquaticlife- aquaticlife- <WBRaquati_ > > (mailto:aquaticlife- digest@yahoogrou ps.com<aquaticlife- digest%40yahoogr oups.com> ) > > to receive the digest, which includes up to 25 posts at a > > time in a single email > > > > Or email _aquaticlife- aquaticlife- <WBRaquati_ > > (mailto:aquaticlife- nomail@yahoogrou ps.com<aquaticlife- nomail%40yahoogr oups.com> ) > > for the No E-Mail option where you will still be able to > > read messages on the group and post replies. > > > > Or email _aquaticlife- aquaticlife- <WBRaquati_ > > (mailto:aquaticlife- normal@yahoogrou ps.com<aquaticlife- normal%40yahoogr oups.com> ) > > to receive individual e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > ************ **An Excellent Credit Score is 750. See Yours in Just 2 Easy > > Steps! > > ( > > http://pr.atwola. com/promoclk/ 100126575x122132 3036x1201367247/ aol?redir= http://www. freecreditreport .com/pm/default. aspx?sc=668072& hmpgID=62& bcd=Jul > > yExcfooterNO62) > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 42072	From: Jasmine	Date: 7/14/2009
Subject: Re: Silver angle laid eggs

Hi Ray Good to hear that your on the mend and getting over the cold. Its a horrible cold that is going around this year. Yes your memory serves you correctly - the yellow Koi and the Marble had paired off while the silver had been exiled so to speak. Now, you just wouldn't have thought that had ever happened. However, you do see `occasionally' the sliver chase the yellow Koi but there is nowhere near any aggressiveness like when the Koi chased the sliver into hiding. They all swim around quite happily at the moment. It was good to see how the Angles lay and how they behaved. I wasn't too surprised that the eggs got eaten, in some way I'm relieved because we are no were ready for heaps of baby angles LOL. I'm even questioning whether to get another tank now. We have enough trouble finding time to maintain this one – what will happen if we get another one. Jasmine --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Raymond Wetzel" <sevenspringss@...> wrote: > > Hi Jasmine, Good to see you back with a post. Been meaning to give you a reply but it's been one of those days that's been non-stop (still not finished -- got to change water). Hope all's been well. If I remember right, the Yellow Koi Angel paired up with the Marble. So, the Silver Angel spawned on her own, huh? A PWC usually will trigger a spawning if the fish are about ready. > > It's not often that an Angel will spawn on its own. The presence of the male (the Marble) may have had something to do with it even though there was no pair bond between those two fish. Angelfish behavior will never cease to surprise you. Speaking of which, it's quite a surprise that all 3 Angels are swimming around together peacefully -- especially since the pair must have been stimulated by the PWC too. Maybe they learned not to bite the hand that feeds them, so they're just waiting for another caviar dinner (LOL). > > Too bad about the small white guy. Hard to say just how and when that happened with its eyes, but as was already pointed out, if the Silver was actively defending the eggs before she got overwhelmed by the pair, she could have gone straight for the eyes and the little one may have not suspected that move. On the other hand, maybe it died first (could have died as a result of being rammed), and the eyes may have been pecked at afterwards. In eother case, sorry about your loss. > > Thanks for cluing me in as to what's going on with your tanks. My cold's about gone (thanks for asking), glad to hear you're doing okay now. Ray >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 42073	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 7/14/2009
Subject: Re: Tank Maintenance

OK... I'm going for the granddaddy of them all... a Light Year... the distance light travels in a year. So just how far is a Light Year??? Google Calculator says: 1 light year = 9.4605284 × 10^15 meters Wikipedia says: A light-year is equal to: exactly 9,460,730,472,580.8 km (about 10 Pm) about 5,878,630,000,000 international miles Billy Bob... a famous red-neck says a light year is: FAARRRRR-ARRRRRRR!!!! Oh... and the movie just wouldn't have sounded right if it was titled "0.2 Leagues Under The Sea". LOL Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Raymond Wetzel Sent: Tuesday, July 14, 2009 8:00 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Tank Maintenance Okay, beam me up, Scotty! Forgot Furlong, League and Chain. Furlong = 660 Feet Chain = 66 Feet League = 3 Miles (average), but variable by country So when Jules Verne had his Nautilus diving to 20,000 Leagues under the sea, he was really writing about his sub being 60,000 miles beneath the surface. Had to be on Jupitor, as he couldn't have been on Earth. Ray --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Steve Szabo" <steve@...> wrote: > > What? No parsec? A parsec is a unit of measure for interstellar space that is equal to 3.26 light-years and is the distance to an object having a parallax of one second as seen from points separated by one astronomical unit. > > \\Steve// > > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] > On Behalf Of Raymond Wetzel > Sent: Monday, July 13, 2009 10:34 AM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Tank Maintenance > > Okay, I'll give you that one (LOL). Right, there are still people who don't know what Lincoln was referring to in his Gettysburg address when he said "Four score and seven years ago . . . " (a score meaning 20 years). But, do you know what "flock" means in the context of time? > > A flock is 2 score (40 years); I guess Lincoln could have said "Two flock and seven years ago . . ." (LOL). BTW, did you know these other time measurements: > > Atomus = "a twinkling of the eye" - 1/376 minute (160 milliseconds). > > Blink = 0.864 second > > Jerk = 0.3048 m/sec3 > > Jiffy = (in computer engineering) - 0.01 second, or - 33.3564 picoseconds. > > Moment = 1/40 hour, or 1.5 minutes > > Wanted to mention a few measures of distance here as well, which not > too many people know about, like "Hecter" (Hectare), "Rod" and > "Fathom." My "all-time" favorite is one I'm sure you're well aware > of, with living on the Big Muddy. We both know that Samuel Clemens' > pen name was "Mark Twain" but I'm sure not very many people know what > this term refers to. "Twain" was an old term for "Two" -- on the > Mississippi, the riverboats had to take new soundings to make a new > chart whenever the channel would change after a big flood, and they > used a rope (with weight) that had knots tied in it at every Fathom > (Fathom = 6 Feet). They had to make sure that when they took > soundings, that these ropes would show at least 12 Feet (2 Fathoms) as > that was the draught of the riverboats -- hence, "Mark Twain" or Two > Marks (Two Knots). Ray > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@> wrote: > > > > "Getting back to "fortnight," Lenny are you sure you didn't just do > > another Google on Wikipedia for that (LOL)? Ray" > > > > Nope... I knew what "fortnight" was and "four score and seven years" too. > > > > Of course, when my brother and I would turn our beds into "forts", > > that could be called "fortnight" too. ;-) > > > > Of course, whoever stuck their head out from under the sheet lost > > the "Turtle Game". And I'm not pulling your finger... ooops.. I > > meant leg, with that one either! ;-) > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles > > referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, > > alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Raymond Wetzel > > Sent: Sunday, July 12, 2009 3:44 PM > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Tank Maintenance > > > > \\Steve//, I believe you're 100% right -- there was no work done on > > the nitrogen cycle until the 1970's as far as I know. Just as > > you're saying though, we knew enough (for whatever reason) to do > > weekly PWC's by the '60's. I'm inclined to believe this may have > > been due because we realized ammonia could build up, even if we > > didn't yet know about the cycle -- and I think we may have learned about growth-inhibiting hormones building up. > > > > During my formative years in the tropical fish hobby from the early > > 1950's on, and into the '60's, I never read a thing on the nitrogen > > cycle -- and I made sure to buy a copy of Dr. Innes' "The Aquarium" > > magazine each and every month. This was a subject that nobody knew > > about -- or if it was known about in public aquariums perhaps (and > > that remains unknown), the topic was never discussed in the hobby > > and it seems as though even those publishers and their authors of > > the hobby magazines at the time knew nothing about it; and some of > > those magazines (such as "Aquarium Journal") had leading > > ichthyologists of the day writing in their publications -- who are still well respected until this day as leaders in this field. > > > > Before having tropical fish, I was given goldfish in an 8 gallon > > homemade metal-framed tank back in the late 1940's. At the time, I > > was instructed by my parents to "clean" them every month by removing > > the fish, plants and snails to a small bowl, removing all the water > > in the tank and thoroughly washing the gravel. Then, the tank was set up again with "spankin' clean" > > gravel and all new water into which the fish were placed back into > > -- good for another month. This was the same maintenance procedure > > that my mother used 20 years before that when my grandmother had > > goldfish during the 1920's as that was the normal, recognized way of > > taking care of goldfish (and no dechlorinator was ever used). > > > > Now, as at least we all knew back then, tropical fish were not as > > hardy as goldfish and needed different care, but too, by then it was > > "realized" even back during the 1930's that there was nothing better > > for your tropical fish than "old water," which was prized. Just as > > you're saying, once we set up a tank it was never disturbed -- and > > our goal was to create a "balanced aquarium." This concept was even > > taught in biology books of that day, in high school, and certainly > > in the hobby magazines and books. We didn't do regular weekly PWC's > > as that would mean we'd be throwing out good aged water > > -- but we did have dip tubes to use for cleaning the gravel, which > > just entailed getting the mulm (fish waste, etc.) off of the > > gravel's surface, removing dead leaves off the bottom, etc. A > > certain amount of this mulm was also prized as it meant for good > > plant fertilizer. The plants grew and the fish remained healthy. > > We were careful not to overfeed, and to not allow excess food > > falling to the substrate as we knew the consequences of foul gravel building up over time. > > > > Considering this consequence, a "gravel cleaning" was done about > > every six months, by using a planting stick to stir up the top layer > > of the gravel after which about a 25% PWC was done to remove as much > > gunk as was practical, but this water change was not done with > > keeping regular maintenance in mind but only as a means of getting rid of this debris. > > Depending on the fish we kept, and the hardness of our tap water, > > some of us cut our tap water with rain or snow water as was written > > about in the "latest" literature of the time. Topping off with tap > > water was done between these time, to replace evaporation -- full > > hoods were never especially promoted. As you said though, tanks > > were never completely broken down, unless a new set up was planned. > > We did use filters, which obviously must have given us our nitrogen > > cycles even though we never knew it, but power filters were not > > invented yet until 1955 -- and even then -- no one could afford them > > until the prices on them started to come down several years later (I > > didn't have power filters until at least 1960). So, until then, ALL > > filters were air driven. Oddly enough, such tanks flourished after being set up like this for years. We never heard of a "pH crash" > > either (and NEVER lost fish as a result of the possibility). > > > > When first setting up a new tank and even for some time afterwards, > > we NEVER had "new-tank-syndrome." As for stocking the tanks, we > > NEVER knew to wait 6 weeks -- we ALWAYS stocked the tanks within a > > day or two (if not, the same > > day) of first setting it up -- and we NEVER lost a fish due to > > ammonia or nitrite poisoning as a result of a tank not be cycled. > > Never even had a fish get sick as a result of excess nitrate, > > surprisingly enough. I guess the fish never knew about the nitrogen > > cycle either, so there was no reason to even be cautious of it. > > They (the fish) must have read the same books and magazines as we > > did, which was why we never knew to be concerned about the cycle, luckily. As they say -- "What you don't know, won't hurt you." > > We didn't know about the cycle, and it never hurt us, nor ever > > killed a fish; it was if the nitrogen cycle never existed back then > > as far as being something needed to keep fish. Certainly we never > > bothered with it, not having known about it. We did always use a dechlorinator though. > > > > Getting back to "fortnight," Lenny are you sure you didn't just do > > another Google on Wikipedia for that (LOL)? Ray > > > > > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Steve Szabo" <steve@> wrote: > > > > > > As for water changes, I can remember in the early 60's trying to > > > remember doing weekly water changes in my tank and being chided > > > for forgetting (hey, I was a kid--there were a lot of important > > > things to tend to, like bike riding in the warm weather, sliding > > > in the cold, playing basketball and baseball, and generally trying > > > to be out of the house more than I was in). In the later 60's the memory is a bit fuzzy. > > > I seem to remember a lot of mud and rain and good music at some > > > place in NY, Wells Street in Chicago, Rolling Stones, Cream, > > > Vanilla Fudge, Frigid Pink, Pink Floyd, going to a prom in jeans > > > and tails with flowers in my hair, and some other things best left > > > unsaid in mixed > > company. > > > > > > Back then, no one knew of the nitrogen cycle. I do not think any > > > real work on the topic was done until the 70's (is that correct > > > Ray?) and it did take a while for the word to get out. > > > > > > The only times I recall breaking down tanks was to move them, or > > > to completely re-do them with new fish and plants. The mythical > > > beast back then was the "balanced aquarium" where a combination of > > > fish, plants, and filtration would establish a "balance" that > > > would maintain the fish and aquarium in good condition, and, > > > perhaps, even allow for > > breeding. > > > What, it seems, this really was that we had established a cycle in > > > such a tank, though we did not know or understand it at the time. > > > Tearing down a tank would disrupt this (as we obviously know > > > today) and so was not done unless needed. A benign neglect was the > > > watchword of > > the day. > > > > > > \\Steve// > > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] > > > On Behalf Of Lenny V. aka GoldLenny > > > Sent: Sunday, July 12, 2009 10:22 AM > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Tank Maintenance > > > > > > How long is a fortnight? Just kidding... I know it's 14 days but > > > fortnight isn't used very often any longer up here. Is it still a > > > common term down under? > > > > > > While many of us preach and practice doing PWC's, gravel vacuuming > > > and filter maintenance at least once a week, if the bioload on a > > > tank is small, then going two weeks could be OK. > > > > > > It really depends on the bioload of the tank and how long you > > > think it's OK for the fish to be stuck in a tank full of fish poop and pee? > > > In the "old days" (you know... like when Ray and Bill and > > > \\Steve// started keeping fish <BG>), it was common to do tank > > > maintenance once a month and many instructional type books had > > > folks completely breaking down their tanks on a monthly basis or > > > every few months. Of course, most folks back then didn't know how > > > the nitrogen cycle worked in aquaria and how all of the rest of > > > the tanks microbiological ecology affected the water quality and > > > why it WAS NOT a good thing to completely break down the tank like that. > > > > > > Further, while fish pool comes out reasonably solid, after a short > > > while in the tank, it starts to break down. Once it breaks down, > > > it dilutes into the water column so at that point the fish are now > > > swimming around in diluted diarrhea. I know... DISGUSTING... but > > > it's true. By doing weekly gravel vacuums, you are getting most > > > of the fish poop up while it's still solid and down on the bottom > > > After a week, you are forcing the fish to swim around in their liquefied poo. > > > This is why I preach and practice doing weekly (or more frequent) > > > tank and filter maintenance. > > > > > > Do we all slip up sometimes... yep, absolutely, guilty-as-charged... > > > but if we decide to start doing tank maintenance every two weeks > > > and then we slip up, then it's three weeks or four weeks before > > > tank maintenance gets done so the fish are forced to live and > > > breath their own liquefied fish poo for an even longer period of time. > > > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles > > > referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, > > > alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, > > > Month) > > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] > > > On > > > Behalf Of Lisa > > > Sent: Sunday, July 12, 2009 5:43 AM > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > > Subject: [AquaticLife] Tank Maintenance > > > > > > I was just wondering, is it absolutly neccecery to do s gravel vac > > > as well as a pwc each week? or could i get away with just doing > > > weekily pwc's and a GV every fortnight > > > > > > Thanks > > > Lisa

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 42074	From: Troy	Date: 7/14/2009
Subject: Re: Tank Maintenance

I was just wondering about that. I think what was meant was “traveling a distance of 20,000 leagues while under water” not “traveling to the depth of 20,000 leagues.” Tdog From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Raymond Wetzel Sent: Tuesday, July 14, 2009 6:00 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Tank Maintenance Okay, beam me up, Scotty! Forgot Furlong, League and Chain. Furlong = 660 Feet Chain = 66 Feet League = 3 Miles (average), but variable by country So when Jules Verne had his Nautilus diving to 20,000 Leagues under the sea, he was really writing about his sub being 60,000 miles beneath the surface. Had to be on Jupitor, as he couldn't have been on Earth. Ray --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> , "Steve Szabo" <steve@...> wrote: > > What? No parsec? A parsec is a unit of measure for interstellar space that is equal to 3.26 light-years and is the distance to an object having a parallax of one second as seen from points separated by one astronomical unit. > > \\Steve// > > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> ] On Behalf Of Raymond Wetzel > Sent: Monday, July 13, 2009 10:34 AM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Tank Maintenance > > Okay, I'll give you that one (LOL). Right, there are still people who don't know what Lincoln was referring to in his Gettysburg address when he said "Four score and seven years ago . . . " (a score meaning 20 years). But, do you know what "flock" means in the context of time? > > A flock is 2 score (40 years); I guess Lincoln could have said "Two flock and seven years ago . . ." (LOL). BTW, did you know these other time measurements: > > Atomus = "a twinkling of the eye" - 1/376 minute (160 milliseconds). > > Blink = 0.864 second > > Jerk = 0.3048 m/sec3 > > Jiffy = (in computer engineering) - 0.01 second, or - 33.3564 picoseconds. > > Moment = 1/40 hour, or 1.5 minutes > > Wanted to mention a few measures of distance here as well, which not too many people know about, like "Hecter" (Hectare), "Rod" and "Fathom." My "all-time" favorite is one I'm sure you're well aware of, with living on the Big Muddy. We both know that Samuel Clemens' pen name was "Mark Twain" but I'm sure not very many people know what this term refers to. "Twain" was an old term for "Two" -- on the Mississippi, the riverboats had to take new soundings to make a new chart whenever the channel would change after a big flood, and they used a rope (with weight) that had knots tied in it at every Fathom (Fathom = 6 Feet). They had to make sure that when they took soundings, that these ropes would show at least 12 Feet (2 Fathoms) as that was the draught of the riverboats -- hence, "Mark Twain" or Two Marks (Two Knots). Ray > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> , "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@> wrote: > > > > "Getting back to "fortnight," Lenny are you sure you didn't just do another > > Google on Wikipedia for that (LOL)? Ray" > > > > Nope... I knew what "fortnight" was and "four score and seven years" too. > > > > Of course, when my brother and I would turn our beds into "forts", that > > could be called "fortnight" too. ;-) > > > > Of course, whoever stuck their head out from under the sheet lost the > > "Turtle Game". And I'm not pulling your finger... ooops.. I meant leg, with > > that one either! ;-) > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > > (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right > > side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> ] On > > Behalf Of Raymond Wetzel > > Sent: Sunday, July 12, 2009 3:44 PM > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Tank Maintenance > > > > \\Steve//, I believe you're 100% right -- there was no work done on the > > nitrogen cycle until the 1970's as far as I know. Just as you're saying > > though, we knew enough (for whatever reason) to do weekly PWC's by the > > '60's. I'm inclined to believe this may have been due because we realized > > ammonia could build up, even if we didn't yet know about the cycle -- and I > > think we may have learned about growth-inhibiting hormones building up. > > > > During my formative years in the tropical fish hobby from the early 1950's > > on, and into the '60's, I never read a thing on the nitrogen cycle -- and I > > made sure to buy a copy of Dr. Innes' "The Aquarium" magazine each and every > > month. This was a subject that nobody knew about -- or if it was known > > about in public aquariums perhaps (and that remains unknown), the topic was > > never discussed in the hobby and it seems as though even those publishers > > and their authors of the hobby magazines at the time knew nothing about it; > > and some of those magazines (such as "Aquarium Journal") had leading > > ichthyologists of the day writing in their publications -- who are still > > well respected until this day as leaders in this field. > > > > Before having tropical fish, I was given goldfish in an 8 gallon homemade > > metal-framed tank back in the late 1940's. At the time, I was instructed by > > my parents to "clean" them every month by removing the fish, plants and > > snails to a small bowl, removing all the water in the tank and thoroughly > > washing the gravel. Then, the tank was set up again with "spankin' clean" > > gravel and all new water into which the fish were placed back into -- good > > for another month. This was the same maintenance procedure that my mother > > used 20 years before that when my grandmother had goldfish during the 1920's > > as that was the normal, recognized way of taking care of goldfish (and no > > dechlorinator was ever used). > > > > Now, as at least we all knew back then, tropical fish were not as hardy as > > goldfish and needed different care, but too, by then it was "realized" even > > back during the 1930's that there was nothing better for your tropical fish > > than "old water," which was prized. Just as you're saying, once we set up a > > tank it was never disturbed -- and our goal was to create a "balanced > > aquarium." This concept was even taught in biology books of that day, in > > high school, and certainly in the hobby magazines and books. We didn't do > > regular weekly PWC's as that would mean we'd be throwing out good aged water > > -- but we did have dip tubes to use for cleaning the gravel, which just > > entailed getting the mulm (fish waste, etc.) off of the gravel's surface, > > removing dead leaves off the bottom, etc. A certain amount of this mulm was > > also prized as it meant for good plant fertilizer. The plants grew and the > > fish remained healthy. We were careful not to overfeed, and to not allow > > excess food falling to the substrate as we knew the consequences of foul > > gravel building up over time. > > > > Considering this consequence, a "gravel cleaning" was done about every six > > months, by using a planting stick to stir up the top layer of the gravel > > after which about a 25% PWC was done to remove as much gunk as was > > practical, but this water change was not done with keeping regular > > maintenance in mind but only as a means of getting rid of this debris. > > Depending on the fish we kept, and the hardness of our tap water, some of us > > cut our tap water with rain or snow water as was written about in the > > "latest" literature of the time. Topping off with tap water was done > > between these time, to replace evaporation -- full hoods were never > > especially promoted. As you said though, tanks were never completely broken > > down, unless a new set up was planned. We did use filters, which obviously > > must have given us our nitrogen cycles even though we never knew it, but > > power filters were not invented yet until 1955 -- and even then -- no one > > could afford them until the prices on them started to come down several > > years later (I didn't have power filters until at least 1960). So, until > > then, ALL filters were air driven. Oddly enough, such tanks flourished > > after being set up like this for years. We never heard of a "pH crash" > > either (and NEVER lost fish as a result of the possibility). > > > > When first setting up a new tank and even for some time afterwards, we NEVER > > had "new-tank-syndrome." As for stocking the tanks, we NEVER knew to wait 6 > > weeks -- we ALWAYS stocked the tanks within a day or two (if not, the same > > day) of first setting it up -- and we NEVER lost a fish due to ammonia or > > nitrite poisoning as a result of a tank not be cycled. Never even had a > > fish get sick as a result of excess nitrate, surprisingly enough. I guess > > the fish never knew about the nitrogen cycle either, so there was no reason > > to even be cautious of it. They (the fish) must have read the same books > > and magazines as we did, which was why we never knew to be concerned about > > the cycle, luckily. As they say -- "What you don't know, won't hurt you." > > We didn't know about the cycle, and it never hurt us, nor ever killed a > > fish; it was if the nitrogen cycle never existed back then as far as being > > something needed to keep fish. Certainly we never bothered with it, not > > having known about it. We did always use a dechlorinator though. > > > > Getting back to "fortnight," Lenny are you sure you didn't just do another > > Google on Wikipedia for that (LOL)? Ray > > > > > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> , "Steve Szabo" <steve@> wrote: > > > > > > As for water changes, I can remember in the early 60's trying to > > > remember doing weekly water changes in my tank and being chided for > > > forgetting (hey, I was a kid--there were a lot of important things to > > > tend to, like bike riding in the warm weather, sliding in the cold, > > > playing basketball and baseball, and generally trying to be out of the > > > house more than I was in). In the later 60's the memory is a bit fuzzy. > > > I seem to remember a lot of mud and rain and good music at some place > > > in NY, Wells Street in Chicago, Rolling Stones, Cream, Vanilla Fudge, > > > Frigid Pink, Pink Floyd, going to a prom in jeans and tails with > > > flowers in my hair, and some other things best left unsaid in mixed > > company. > > > > > > Back then, no one knew of the nitrogen cycle. I do not think any real > > > work on the topic was done until the 70's (is that correct Ray?) and > > > it did take a while for the word to get out. > > > > > > The only times I recall breaking down tanks was to move them, or to > > > completely re-do them with new fish and plants. The mythical beast > > > back then was the "balanced aquarium" where a combination of fish, > > > plants, and filtration would establish a "balance" that would maintain > > > the fish and aquarium in good condition, and, perhaps, even allow for > > breeding. > > > What, it seems, this really was that we had established a cycle in > > > such a tank, though we did not know or understand it at the time. > > > Tearing down a tank would disrupt this (as we obviously know today) > > > and so was not done unless needed. A benign neglect was the watchword of > > the day. > > > > > > \\Steve// > > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> ] > > > On Behalf Of Lenny V. aka GoldLenny > > > Sent: Sunday, July 12, 2009 10:22 AM > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Tank Maintenance > > > > > > How long is a fortnight? Just kidding... I know it's 14 days but > > > fortnight isn't used very often any longer up here. Is it still a > > > common term down under? > > > > > > While many of us preach and practice doing PWC's, gravel vacuuming and > > > filter maintenance at least once a week, if the bioload on a tank is > > > small, then going two weeks could be OK. > > > > > > It really depends on the bioload of the tank and how long you think > > > it's OK for the fish to be stuck in a tank full of fish poop and pee? > > > In the "old days" (you know... like when Ray and Bill and \\Steve// > > > started keeping fish <BG>), it was common to do tank maintenance once > > > a month and many instructional type books had folks completely > > > breaking down their tanks on a monthly basis or every few months. Of > > > course, most folks back then didn't know how the nitrogen cycle worked > > > in aquaria and how all of the rest of the tanks microbiological > > > ecology affected the water quality and why it WAS NOT a good thing to > > > completely break down the tank like that. > > > > > > Further, while fish pool comes out reasonably solid, after a short > > > while in the tank, it starts to break down. Once it breaks down, it > > > dilutes into the water column so at that point the fish are now > > > swimming around in diluted diarrhea. I know... DISGUSTING... but it's > > > true. By doing weekly gravel vacuums, you are getting most of the > > > fish poop up while it's still solid and down on the bottom After a > > > week, you are forcing the fish to swim around in their liquefied poo. > > > This is why I preach and practice doing weekly (or more frequent) tank > > > and filter maintenance. > > > > > > Do we all slip up sometimes... yep, absolutely, guilty-as-charged... > > > but if we decide to start doing tank maintenance every two weeks and > > > then we slip up, then it's three weeks or four weeks before tank > > > maintenance gets done so the fish are forced to live and breath their > > > own liquefied fish poo for an even longer period of time. > > > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles > > > referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically > > > under Labels and also under Archives by Year, > > > Month) > > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> ] > > > On > > > Behalf Of Lisa > > > Sent: Sunday, July 12, 2009 5:43 AM > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > Subject: [AquaticLife] Tank Maintenance > > > > > > I was just wondering, is it absolutly neccecery to do s gravel vac as > > > well as a pwc each week? or could i get away with just doing weekily > > > pwc's and a GV every fortnight > > > > > > Thanks > > > Lisa > > > > > > > ------------------------------------ > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. > ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> > PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- > <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. > > If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the home page. > > Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com <mailto:aquaticlife-digest%40yahoogroups.com> to receive the digest, which includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email > > Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com <mailto:aquaticlife-nomail%40yahoogroups.com> for the No E-Mail option where you will still be able to read messages on the group and post replies. > > Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com <mailto:aquaticlife-normal%40yahoogroups.com> to receive individual e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 42075	From: Dora Smith	Date: 7/14/2009
Subject: Re: Help reading the GH and KH instructions for API

It's actually remarkably simple; the "degrees" of hardness are within a drop of the number of drops you put in to get the color to change the second time. Either the same number of drops, or the number minus one, or something like that. It's set up to work that way. Yours, Dora Smith Austin, TX tiggernut24@... ----- Original Message ----- From: "Amber Berglund" <arberglund@...> To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Monday, July 13, 2009 11:14 PM Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Help reading the GH and KH instructions for API >I don't understand how to convert the drops counted to the ppm, their > chart makes no sense to me. > > Amber > > Dora Smith wrote: >> >> >> Both tests are designed so that when you add the first solution the >> contents >> of hte tube change color, and you add drop by drop (can add multiple >> drops >> at first if you've an idea how many drops it will take), until the water >> changes to a different color. >> >> It's a titration method. >> >> I find that there's a drop's difference between when the color begins to >> change and when it's completely changed, but as long as you're >> consistent in >> your reading method, that ought not to make a big difference. >> >> Yours, >> Dora Smith >> Austin, TX >> tiggernut24@... <mailto:tiggernut24%40yahoo.com> >> ----- Original Message ----- >> From: "Amber Berglund" <arberglund@... >> <mailto:arberglund%40gmail.com>> >> To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>> >> Sent: Monday, July 13, 2009 9:44 PM >> Subject: [AquaticLife] Help reading the GH and KH instructions for API >> >> I'm really confused how to read the test chart, does anyone out there >> use the API KH and GH test kit regularly and understand how to read the >> drop's conversion? >> >> Amber >> >> ------------------------------------ >> >> Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank >> You. >> ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> >> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT >> important to >> the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the >> SUBJECT >> LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- >> <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. >> We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. >> >> If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of unsubscribing, >> you >> can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My Membership" on >> the >> home page. >> >> Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com >> <mailto:aquaticlife-digest%40yahoogroups.com> to receive the digest, >> which >> includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email >> >> Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com >> <mailto:aquaticlife-nomail%40yahoogroups.com> for the No E-Mail option >> where >> you will still be able to read messages on the group and post replies. >> >> Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com >> <mailto:aquaticlife-normal%40yahoogroups.com> to receive individual >> e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links >> >> > > > ------------------------------------ > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. > ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> > PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to > the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the > SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- > <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. > > If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of unsubscribing, you > can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the > home page. > > Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com to receive the digest, which > includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email > > Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com for the No E-Mail option where > you will still be able to read messages on the group and post replies. > > Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com to receive individual > e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links > > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 42076	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 7/14/2009
Subject: Re: In case Pam doesn't get back to me in time.

If you want the best chance of saving them, probably putting them in the 10G fry tank. How long does a male BN Pleco take care of the fry after they hatch? Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Amber Berglund Sent: Tuesday, July 14, 2009 5:36 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] In case Pam doesn't get back to me in time. Question for you guys and gals out there. Pam sent me some albino BN pleco's (a male and a female), well the male has some very young babies in the bag with him that he didn't eat on the trip here. Should I add them to the same tank with him or put them in a "safer" community tank only? I could put them in my algaefied 10 gallon fry tank with 1 guppy fry in it... Or I could put them in the 55 gallon community tank, but it has full grown guppy and danio's that might eat the babies, but it is well planted... Otherwise they're going into the 125 gallon where lots of things could possibly eat them ;) Amber

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 42077	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 7/14/2009
Subject: Re: In case Pam doesn't get back to me in time.

Oh well my travel time to get stuff here is a little longer than the rest of the US, Fedex gets everything overnight to everywhere except SE alaska ;) LOL. It's a day and a half travel time for stuff to get here, used to be 2 days minimum. Fed ex is spendy, but they guarantee over-night delivery, I don't think USPS express does. Amber bill 1433 wrote: > > > > and the last question from the peanut-gallery? > > Speed, what was the travel time? > > Sorry, not trying to be "nosey" honest! I'm trying to learn! I might > need to do this very thing and would like at least some of my ducks in > a row! > > ol' bill-----ol'dog trying to learn new tricks! Thanks Ladies. > > --- On Tue, 7/14/09, Amber Berglund <arberglund@... > <mailto:arberglund%40gmail.com>> wrote: > > > From: Amber Berglund <arberglund@... > <mailto:arberglund%40gmail.com>> > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] In case Pam doesn't get back to me in time. > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > Date: Tuesday, July 14, 2009, 7:21 PM > > The 55 gallon has the most hiding > > spots, so I put them there. > > I got 3 BN brown pleco's, 2 albino's and some fry, 2 plume > > tail platties > > one black one orange, LOL. It's okay Pam they're cute. > > I got 15 or so Snails in mixed colors and yes Pam your > > purple ones are > > pretty like the other's I got so don't worry ;) > > And I got some cherry shrimp for my 55 gallon community > > tank too. Most > > of the purple snails went in there too, LOL. > > I put all the bigger snails in the 125 gallon and 1 of the > > albino > > pleco's (female I assume as the male was with the babies), > > and all the > > small mystery snails in my fry tank with my 1 guppy fry. > > I'm planning on > > moving him soon he's no longer a fry, but he's keeping the > > tank cycled > > ;) LOL. > > I didn't forget anything did I Pam? LOL > > She sent them to me on my fed ex account so I got a major > > discount 75% > > off. From Indiana to Alaska, woohoo ;) LOL. > > > > Amber > > > > biG poppa wrote: > > > > > > > > > Is there alot of hiding places in the 10g amber if so > > i think they > > > should go in there > > > (lucky you got some plecos) > > > > > > --- On Tue, 7/14/09, Amber Berglund <arberglund@... > <mailto:arberglund%40gmail.com> > > > > > <mailto:arberglund%40gmail.com>> wrote: > > > > > > From: Amber Berglund <arberglund@... > <mailto:arberglund%40gmail.com> > > > > > <mailto:arberglund%40gmail.com>> > > > Subject: [AquaticLife] In case Pam doesn't get back to > > me in time. > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > Date: Tuesday, July 14, 2009, 6:36 PM > > > > > > Question for you guys and gals out there. > > > Pam sent me some albino BN pleco's (a male and a > > female), well the male > > > has some very young babies in the bag with him that he > > didn't eat on the > > > trip here. Should I add them to the same tank with him > > or put them in a > > > "safer" community tank only? I could put them in my > > algaefied 10 gallon > > > fry tank with 1 guppy fry in it... Or I could put them > > in the 55 gallon > > > community tank, but it has full grown guppy and > > danio's that might eat > > > the babies, but it is well planted... Otherwise > > they're going into the > > > 125 gallon where lots of things could possibly eat > > them ;) > > > > > > Amber > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > > > > > > > > > ------------------------------------ > > > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when > > replying, Thank You. > > ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> > > ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> > > PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is > > NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of > > the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new > > subject (was re: old subject)" <- > > <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. > > , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. > > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. > > > > If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of > > unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by > > clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the home page. > > > > Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:aquaticlife-digest%40yahoogroups.com> > > to receive the digest, which includes up to 25 posts at a > > time in a single email > > > > Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:aquaticlife-nomail%40yahoogroups.com> > > for the No E-Mail option where you will still be able to > > read messages on the group and post replies. > > > > Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:aquaticlife-normal%40yahoogroups.com> > > to receive individual e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > mailto:AquaticLife-fullfeatured@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife-fullfeatured%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 42078	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 7/14/2009
Subject: Re: In case Pam doesn't get back to me in time.

I would but they've been a little shy since adding them, I'll have to wait until they calm down from travel. Perhaps if I add some of my own platy's to the tank they will feel more secure, Pam sent 2, LOL. Not like I don't have plenty, I lost count after 15 fry. Amber Gwydryn@... wrote: > > > > > In a message dated 7/14/2009 6:34:20 P.M. Central Daylight Time, > arberglund@... <mailto:arberglund%40gmail.com> writes: > > 2 plume tail platties > one black one orange, LOL. It's okay Pam they're cute. > > Amber; > Can you post pictures of the plumetail platties? Curiosity is killing > me... > Oh, what the heck, pictures of the whole haul! > Enid > > "Life is not about waiting for the storms to pass...it's about learning > how to dance in the rain." > **************An Excellent Credit Score is 750. See Yours in Just 2 Easy > Steps! > (http://pr.atwola.com/promoclk/100126575x1221323036x1201367247/aol?redir=http://www.freecreditreport.com/pm/default.aspx?sc=668072&hmpgID=62&bcd=Jul > <http://pr.atwola.com/promoclk/100126575x1221323036x1201367247/aol?redir=http://www.freecreditreport.com/pm/default.aspx?sc=668072&hmpgID=62&bcd=Jul> > yExcfooterNO62) > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 42079	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 7/14/2009
Subject: Re: Newbie.... Kinda

Hi Kandi, Welcome to the group. I've been extra busy with work the past 4-5 days so I haven't been replying to most threads but I marked your email as UNREAD so I could get to it when I had time.... like now. Good to see we have some Tiger fans up in TN. I'm guessing y'all catch some flack from all the UT Vols fans up there but even they have to admit that Purple and Gold is a much better color choice than Orange and White. Even Amber knows that Purple is better than Orange. ;-) Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of klf62972 Sent: Tuesday, July 14, 2009 9:04 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Newbie.... Kinda Hey Everyone, I am Kandi and I live just outside Memphis, TN. I have been in this group for about a month, but I have just been a "lurker" reading and looking at pictures with interest. But now I want to chime in! I have had tanks since I was 10 years old, and I LOVE fish!! I currently have two tanks - One is a 29 gal community that has live plants, 2 Angels, 3 Dwarf Platties, 3 White Mickey Mouse Platties, a few guppies, 2 Octos, a Pleco, and a few ghost shrimp. My big tank is a 110 gal with my "bad boys" in there. I have a 12" Bichir, a Long Fin Tiger Oscar (about 7-8" body), an Albino Oscar (about 6-7" body), a South American Pike (he is the smallest @ about 6" - but he is by far the meanest of them all) and a hybrid Red-Tail/Tiger Shovelnose Cat. Now for why I am posting - 1. Hey Lenny - Geaux Tigers!! My house is a HUGE LSU party zone for foolball season! (in fact, my cage of Sugar Gliders have a LSU cage set coming in August - I will have to share pics with you!) As I was looking through Amber's pictures of her snails, I was thinking that I could get the purple ones and then some gold ones :) I can tell you are a wealth of knowledge! 2. I want to get in touch with Pam - I have never bought fish/snails other than locally, and I would love to have some decent quality snails that will stay alive - everything I have bought from LFS's have died... Can someone hook me up with her? Thanks in advance guys!

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 42080	From: pam andress	Date: 7/14/2009
Subject: Re: In case Pam doesn't get back to me in time.

Try this link http://s7.photobucket.com/albums/y262/pamandress/?start=0&newest=1 I'm not sure if it will work for everyone. I took those tonight. I'm not that good at taking pics, but I hope you can see the plume tails on the platies. Some are born without and you need to keep them in the breeding program or they start to get funny body shapes I'm told. Pam To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com From: arberglund@... Date: Tue, 14 Jul 2009 18:48:21 -0800 Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] In case Pam doesn't get back to me in time. I would but they've been a little shy since adding them, I'll have to wait until they calm down from travel. Perhaps if I add some of my own platy's to the tank they will feel more secure, Pam sent 2, LOL. Not like I don't have plenty, I lost count after 15 fry. Amber Gwydryn@... wrote: > > > > > In a message dated 7/14/2009 6:34:20 P.M. Central Daylight Time, > arberglund@... <mailto:arberglund%40gmail.com> writes: > > 2 plume tail platties > one black one orange, LOL. It's okay Pam they're cute. > > Amber; > Can you post pictures of the plumetail platties? Curiosity is killing > me... > Oh, what the heck, pictures of the whole haul! > Enid > > "Life is not about waiting for the storms to pass...it's about learning > how to dance in the rain." > **************An Excellent Credit Score is 750. See Yours in Just 2 Easy > Steps! > (http://pr.atwola.com/promoclk/100126575x1221323036x1201367247/aol?redir=http://www.freecreditreport.com/pm/default.aspx?sc=668072&hmpgID=62&bcd=Jul > <http://pr.atwola.com/promoclk/100126575x1221323036x1201367247/aol?redir=http://www.freecreditreport.com/pm/default.aspx?sc=668072&hmpgID=62&bcd=Jul> > yExcfooterNO62) > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 42081	From: Troy	Date: 7/14/2009
Subject: Re: What is "Grouply "?

Personally, I wouldn’t want to be part of any social networking site that would have me as a member. Tdog From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Jpateson@... Sent: Tuesday, July 14, 2009 12:24 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] What is "Grouply "? Lenny, Again thanks, I don't belong to any "social networks" and this in another one to go on my list.. Jim In a message dated 7/14/2009 1:22:26 P.M. Central Daylight Time, GoldLenny@... <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com> writes: Here is what Snopes.com has to say about Grouply. _http://message.http://messhttp://messhttp://mess_ <http://message.http:/messhttp:/messhttp:/mess_> (http://message.snopes.com/showthread.php?t=25770) There are a few new services coming online which are social "networking" sites similar to My Space and Facebook. One of these new services is called "Grouply". Grouply is tapping Yahoo lists and reposting the messages to Grouply members. As soon as ONE list member joins this service, all of our messages will then be archived by Grouply. Grouply changes your email address to (yourname)@grouply. com. for the purpose of your Yahoo list mail only. They will also go into your Yahoo account and change all of your preferences regarding how you view your mail, whether you get individual posts or digests, and whether you can be directly added to any of a million other Yahoo groups. In order to do this, Grouply requires that you give them your Yahoo ID and password. I am truly hoping that most of our members are smart enough not to hand over that information to ANYONE--especially to another web service! There is no guarantee that this information that Grouply is aggregating is secure, thus leaving your sign-in info available to spammers and hackers--including all of our list files and photos. At this point, there is no way for us to block Grouply's access to our list (although that is being worked on). Until there is, I will be checking daily for list members who may have innocently joined Grouply. I will be unsubbing and banning them, plus making direct contact with them explaining why we will not allow this in our membership. They will be welcome to rejoin once they unsub from Grouply. (END SNIP) This review also lists many reference links to other info about Grouply. _http://groups.http://grouhttp://groupshttp://grouhttp://groupshttp://groups <http://groups.http:/grouhttp:/groupshttp:/grouhttp:/groupshttp:/groups> ._ (http://groups.google.com/group/Google_Web_Search_Help-UsingWS/msg/217d1450f 3) b2ca61 While Grouply came on strong and invasive/pervasive when it first came out, it has modified the way it markets itself now. Unfortunately, much damage was done to it's image. When they first came out, as soon as folks joined, they didn't realize it but when they gave Grouply their Yahoo ID and password, Grouply then sent out invitations to everyone in their Yahoo email address book, including to all of the groups that the person belonged to. When this started happening to groups, moderators/owners started blocking/banning and down-talking Grouply. Now, Grouply has more of a feature like MySpace and Facebook where they ask you if you want to notify your friends, instead of doing it without your knowledge (although it was in the small print of the EULA). The downside is that if someone says YES to Grouply, they still send out invites to everyone... which is why members of this group will occasionally get a Grouply invite. There's not much a Group's moderator can do to stop this other than to ban members when it happens but most of the time, it's due to social engineering tht tricks the member into saying YES, rather than the member intentionally spamming a group they may belong to. If a Yahoo Group member decides to join Grouply and then DOES NOT accept the process of inviting friends and simply uses Grouply to read all of their Yahoo Group mail, it would be an acceptable service but Grouply still has their self-promoting and growing part where they try and convince Grouply Members to notifiy their friends... just like MySpace, Facebook and most other Social Networds do. It's really up to the member to NOT allow these "services" access to their email accounts and friend lists. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - _http://GoldLenny.http://Gohtt_ <http://GoldLenny.http:/Gohtt_> (http://goldlenny.blogspot.com/) (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: _AquaticLife@AquaticLife@Aqu_ (mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> ) [mailto:_AquaticLife@AquaticLife@Aqu_ (mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> ) ] On Behalf Of bill 1433 Sent: Tuesday, July 14, 2009 10:07 AM To: _AquaticLife@AquaticLife@Aqu_ (mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> ) Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] What is "Grouply "? Roger on that Amber but just did a google on it and some distrubing info came back-----NOT GOOD! Here is a cut & paste: "There are a few new services coming online which are social "networking" sites similar to My Space and Facebook. One of these new services is called "Grouply". Grouply is tapping Yahoo lists and reposting the messages to Grouply members. As soon as ONE list member joins this service, all of our messages will then be archived by Grouply. Grouply changes your email address to (yourname)@grouply. com. for the purpose of your Yahoo list mail only. They will also go into your Yahoo account and change all of your preferences regarding how you view your mail, whether you get individual posts or digests, and whether you can be directly added to any of a million other Yahoo groups. In order to do this, Grouply requires that you give them your Yahoo ID and password. I am truly hoping that most of our members are smart enough not to hand over that information to ANYONE--especially to another web service!" I don't think this is something that our members of the group should be into! ol' bill --- On Tue, 7/14/09, Amber Berglund <_arberglund@... <mailto:_arberglund%40gmail.arb> _ (mailto:arberglund@... <mailto:arberglund%40gmail.com> ) > wrote: > From: Amber Berglund <_arberglund@... <mailto:_arberglund%40gmail.arb> _ (mailto:arberglund@... <mailto:arberglund%40gmail.com> ) > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] What is "Grouply "? > To: _AquaticLife@AquaticLife@Aqu_ (mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> ) > Date: Tuesday, July 14, 2009, 10:42 AM > grouply is bad, but I forget exactly > why, I think it spams for you or > something... > > Amber > > bill 1433 wrote: > > > > > > > > Ya got me on that one Jim? Maybe Len on here > might know, I've never > > heard of it??? > > Could it just be a typo for "Group"? > > > > Bill > > > > --- On Tue, 7/14/09, Jim Pat. <_Jpateson@... <mailto:_Jpateson%40aol.Jpa> _ (mailto:Jpateson@... <mailto:Jpateson%40aol.com> ) > > > <mailto:Jpateson%mailto:Jp>> wrote: > > > > From: Jim Pat. <_Jpateson@... <mailto:_Jpateson%40aol.Jpa> _ (mailto:Jpateson@... <mailto:Jpateson%40aol.com> ) > <mailto:Jpateson%mailto:Jp>> > > Subject: [AquaticLife] What is "Grouply "? > > To: _AquaticLife@AquaticLife@Aqu_ (mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> ) > <mailto:AquaticLifemailto:AquaticLmai> > > Date: Tuesday, July 14, 2009, 9:41 AM > > > > I am being asked by Eric to join "Grouply", is this a > scam or what? > > > > Thanks, > > > > Jim **************An Excellent Credit Score is 750. See Yours in Just 2 Easy Steps! (http://pr.atwola.com/promoclk/100126575x1221323036x1201367247/aol?redir=htt p://www.freecreditreport.com/pm/default.aspx?sc=668072 <http://pr.atwola.com/promoclk/100126575x1221323036x1201367247/aol?redir=htt p://www.freecreditreport.com/pm/default.aspx?sc=668072&hmpgID=62&bcd=Jul> &hmpgID=62&bcd=Jul yExcfooterNO62) [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 42082	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 7/14/2009
Subject: Re: In case Pam doesn't get back to me in time.

Will adding some of my fry to the tank be a bad thing? Should I keep them separate? Amber pam andress wrote: > > > > Try this link > http://s7.photobucket.com/albums/y262/pamandress/?start=0&newest=1 > <http://s7.photobucket.com/albums/y262/pamandress/?start=0&newest=1> > > I'm not sure if it will work for everyone. I took those tonight. I'm > not that good at taking pics, but I hope you can see the plume tails > on the platies. Some are born without and you need to keep them in the > breeding program or they start to get funny body shapes I'm told. > > Pam > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > From: arberglund@... <mailto:arberglund%40gmail.com> > Date: Tue, 14 Jul 2009 18:48:21 -0800 > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] In case Pam doesn't get back to me in time. > > I would but they've been a little shy since adding them, I'll have to > wait until they calm down from travel. Perhaps if I add some of my own > platy's to the tank they will feel more secure, Pam sent 2, LOL. > Not like I don't have plenty, I lost count after 15 fry. > > Amber > > Gwydryn@... <mailto:Gwydryn%40aol.com> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > In a message dated 7/14/2009 6:34:20 P.M. Central Daylight Time, > > arberglund@... <mailto:arberglund%40gmail.com> > <mailto:arberglund%40gmail.com> writes: > > > > 2 plume tail platties > > one black one orange, LOL. It's okay Pam they're cute. > > > > Amber; > > Can you post pictures of the plumetail platties? Curiosity is killing > > me... > > Oh, what the heck, pictures of the whole haul! > > Enid > > > > "Life is not about waiting for the storms to pass...it's about learning > > how to dance in the rain." > > **************An Excellent Credit Score is 750. See Yours in Just 2 Easy > > Steps! > > > (http://pr.atwola.com/promoclk/100126575x1221323036x1201367247/aol?redir=http://www.freecreditreport.com/pm/default.aspx?sc=668072&hmpgID=62&bcd=Jul > <http://pr.atwola.com/promoclk/100126575x1221323036x1201367247/aol?redir=http://www.freecreditreport.com/pm/default.aspx?sc=668072&hmpgID=62&bcd=Jul> > > > > <http://pr.atwola.com/promoclk/100126575x1221323036x1201367247/aol?redir=http://www.freecreditreport.com/pm/default.aspx?sc=668072&hmpgID=62&bcd=Jul > <http://pr.atwola.com/promoclk/100126575x1221323036x1201367247/aol?redir=http://www.freecreditreport.com/pm/default.aspx?sc=668072&hmpgID=62&bcd=Jul>> > > yExcfooterNO62) > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 42083	From: Lisa	Date: 7/15/2009
Subject: Problematic male swordtail

I have a male pineapple swordtail. And he seems to be acting rather oddly. Sitting near the surface of the water. Tail pointed down, and nose up. All this hovering practically motionless beneath one of the amazon sword leaves. PH; 6.5. Normally 7.0. Out of the faucet IS 7.0 KH; 35.8 Niterite; 0ppm Niterate; 0ppm Amonia; 0ppm All other fish are healthy and active. Lisa

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 42084	From: Lisa	Date: 7/15/2009
Subject: Plant food

Hi guys. I was just wondering what is the best plant food? Liquid? Tablets? Brand? Safe for fish? How much per dosage? My plants are on bogwood, so the roots are not buried Thanks Lisa

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 42085	From: Raymond Wetzel	Date: 7/15/2009
Subject: Re: Problematic male swordtail

The behavior of your Swordtail could have a number of different causes, although the most common one when displaying this behavior is an environmental issue frequently causing what is called "Shimmies" in many Livebearers -- this is especially noted when accompanied by the fish actually displaying a "swimming in place" action. So, could very well be the start of this condition, more probable if the fins are seen to be clamped. Your pH 6.5 could have something to do with this (IF this is what this condition is), as Swordtails prefer a pH of somewhere around 7.5 or so. While most of our aquarium fish will adapt to conditions other than what they do best in, the further the strain is removed from the genetic make-up of the wild fish, and the more inbred the strain is to maintain the variety, the less vigorous the fish is --meaning they can't tolerate as much deviance from their optimum conditions. While the species does not normally require temperatures much over 74 o, coming from higher elevations in Mexico, a sudden chill can also act to bring on this condition. Normally preferring harder water, a lack of sufficient electrolytes can also act towards bringing this on. I don't see a test result for General Hardness, but I do note your KH (a part of your Total Hardness) of 35.8 -- while at the same time noting a drop in your normally pH 7.0 to pH 6.5. By "35.8" for your KH, I presume you must mean "ppm," not "dKH." A carbonate hardness (KH) of 35.8ppm is quite low and would tend coincide with your having a low electrolyte level. If you have no fish which are salt-intolerant, such as Cory Catfish, Loaches or Tetras, or plants, you can add up to 2 tsp of salt per gallon for your Swordtails -- otherwise, just add 1 TBS of salt per 5 gallons (1.66 tsp per gallon). This, after making several small PWC's to help increase the pH back towards neutral. The salt will not increase either the GH or the KH but will ensure the presence of more electrolytes. Additionally, increase the temperature to 80 o temporarily until the fish shows signs of improvement. Your nitrate reading of 0.0ppm is inconsistent with the drop in your pH, as it's most often the result of organic activity and its related waste as a life-process that promotes the resultant pH drop, with an accompanied increase in nitrates as the end result of a natural part of this life-process. This expected nitrate build-up can only be decreased via the activity of live plants and/or by frequent PWC's, otherwise, it's extremely unusual for a cycled tank to have a 0.0ppm nitrate reading and I must tend to be suspect of this test result unless the tank is well populated with live plants. Surely, you are not doing frequent PWC's, as the pH would not have dropped then. Ray ---In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Lisa" <lisa_lawless2004@...> wrote: > > I have a male pineapple swordtail. And he seems to be acting rather oddly. > Sitting near the surface of the water. Tail pointed down, and nose up. All this hovering practically motionless beneath one of the amazon sword leaves. > > PH; 6.5. Normally 7.0. > Out of the faucet IS 7.0 > > KH; 35.8 > > Nitrite; 0ppm > > Nitrate; 0ppm > > Ammonia; 0ppm > > All other fish are healthy and active. > > Lisa >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 42086	From: Raymond Wetzel	Date: 7/15/2009
Subject: Re: Plant food

Hi Lisa, I would go with either the liquid plant food, Seachem's Flourish -- or Flourish Excel. The dose is 1 ml (1/5 tsp) per 10 gallons -- or 1 tsp per 50 gallons. Ray --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Lisa" <lisa_lawless2004@...> wrote: > > Hi guys. I was just wondering what is the best plant food? > > Liquid? > Tablets? > Brand? > Safe for fish? > How much per dosage? > > My plants are on bogwood, so the roots are not buried > Thanks > > Lisa >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 42087	From: Deenerz@aol.com	Date: 7/15/2009
Subject: Re: Tank Maintenance

So Lenny, How excited were you at the invention of glass? ;) Mike -----Original Message----- From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@...> To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Mon, Jul 13, 2009 9:43 pm Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: Tank Maintenance And as George Santayana (NO \\Steve//, not Carlos Santana ... lol) once said, "Those who cannot remember the past are condemned to repeat it.", so unless you folks want to go back to heating your tanks with open fires under them... or more recently in history, one of them new-fangled incandescent light bulbs underneath them, you should join the AHHS Yahoo Group and learn of how things were done in the "olden days"... when Men were Men and Women told them what to do AND when and how to do it! You see... those who cannot remember the past are condemned to repeat it! OOH... Deja Vu! LOL I wish I had a segue to go into... but I don't.... this was just a random thought that popped into my weary head. Oh yeah... one other thing. Ray, ;-) Yes, I did have to Google to find the author of the original quote which is often mis-quoted as "Those who do not learn from (or ignore) history are doomed to repeat it" and other variations. http://en.wikiquote.org/wiki/George_Santayana http://answers.google.com/answ ers/threadview?id=495329 Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Steve Szabo Sent: Monday, July 13, 2009 7:00 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: Tank Maintenance Ray, I'll see if I can come up with something tonight to post over there. For those who may not know, and may have an interest, Ray and I are talking about a Yahoo list called Aquarium Hobby Historical Society which is basically a bunch of older guys talking about what it was like back in the day. There are some rather illustrious members over there, one of the members is the last living person in the hobby to have worked directly with William T. Innes, and there are others with sterling pedigrees in the hobby as well. Some of the discussions are like the old "You are There" series on TV (though that may be too old a reference for many here). You can learn a lot about the hobby by hanging out over there. \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Raymond Wetzel Sent: Monday, July 13, 2009 9:38 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Tank Maintenance \\Steve//, The time20scale you're outlining seems to be about right. I doubt if we would find much (if any) mention of the nitrogen cycle until the 1970's, and that was probably first brought to the hobby's attention in the marine sector. I don't recall having read anything at all about it even in the 1960's. As I mentioned, I believe we came to learn about possible ammonia build up in the '60's, but even then that part's a little vague -- although we were encouraged by then to do weekly PWC's (but then, I can't remember exacty why). I don't recall freshwater ammonia test kits back in those years as a regular thing, expect perhaps in lab quality kits like LaMotte which were also advertised for the hobby if one wanted to spend that much. I DO know that I knew very little about the consequences of ammonia when coupled with pH. I used to raise lots of young Oscars and sell them to the wholesalers. I remember one time having delivered an order of several hundred Oscars to one of my wholesale customers, when I hadn't done a PWC on them prior to delivering them, that they slowly started to "fold up" after acclimating them to their tanks --their water had a fairly high pH of about 7.8. Apparently, and unknown to me at the time, my water had built up ammonia but remained non-toxic (ammonium) as the pH had dropped below neutral. When releasing these fish (and their water) into the customer's pH 7.8 water, whatever ammonium was in my water suddenly became toxic ammonia in his tanks. Never did figure that one out until information came forth on the topic. Couldn't say I learned from it at the time, as there was no knowledge of this subject published yet, so it remained a mystery for a while, and as far as releasing their water, it was the customer who did this as normal procedure with all his shipments. Apparently, he had no way of knowing about the possible consequences of ammonia/pH either, and just trusted that my fish were disease-free (he never had reason to distrust my shipments in the past). Certainly agree on the cycle information needing to be publicized more widely at present. For one thing, too many noobies feel they don't need to read up on fish keeping as they probably feel you just dump the fish in a tankful of water, feed (overfeed?) and watch them. I think this knowledge should start at the local shops level; after all, they would only stand to benefit as they'd have customers who would stay in the hobby buying more stuff from them. The short-sighted attitude of being able to keep selling the noobies replacement fish doesn't last too long when the customer drops out. That's one thing I distinctly remember years ago, even back in the '50's -- LFS's always had several piles of literature/brochures on the counter as freebies from various manufacturers like Long-Life and Metaframe, etc., even though they didn't contain anything on the cycle back then. T hey should supply this today with every tank purchase -- not just as an optional counter pick-up by the shop goers, but with making sure to include it with the tank purchase, and even drawing it to the attention of their customers not specifically buying a tank. Great idea, moving this topic over to the AHHS. I'm sure it would stir up some discussion, and someone's bound to know more on when the cycle concept was introduced. I'd like to see some of their replies. Ray --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Steve Szabo" <steve@...> wrote: > > Looking through literature cited in Spotte's _Fish and Invertebrate Culture, Second Edition_ (1979), it appears that while the different nitrogenous compounds were known since at least the '50's, no real serious work toward discovering how they fit together seems to appear until the mid-60's. in the scientific literature. Without examining the sources, this would lead me to believe that the nitrogen cycle was not truly found and studied until then. Once science had it, it would then slowly filter down to the hobbyist level, so, probably, if you were looking in hobbyist literature, you probably would not find any mention of it prior to the early '70's. Once it had appeared, it would take some time to really start to be understood and used by hobbyists, however, for the number of questions we have here, it is evident that more work needs to be done to disseminate the information so that even the noob's are made aware of it, if not through reading, then via the local shops where they buy their equipment and fish. Probably a pipe dream though. > > Ray, maybe you and I should move further discussion of this over to AHHS. Some of those guys should know the history of this in the hobby. > > \\Steve// > > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] > On Behalf Of bill 1433 > Sent: Sunday, July 12, 2009 7:55 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: Tank Maintenance > > > Hey Ray!  Same as a previous return today at \\Steve//!!!!! > > Thanks for the memories! This was how I started, or should I say my Mom did.. She started in the hobby with the neighbor next door and it just a while I was into it myself. > > As I can recall though, there was work being done in the hobby for the > nitrogen cycle, only it was not the Freshwater Team doing it. As I recall, any mention of it in the magazines fell to our brothers on the Saltwater Team. Although much has, and is still be written about Biological and the Nitrogen cycles and their affects on aquariums, I truly believe that is was from this group that many of the idea's that we seem to hold so dear today came from. > > ol' bill >   > > --- On Sun, 7/12/09, Raymond Wetzel <sevenspringss@...> wrote: > > > From: Raymond Wetzel <sevenspringss@...> > > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Tank Maintenance > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > Date: Sunday, July 12, 2009, 4:44 PM \\Steve//,  I believe you're > > 100% right -- there was no work done on the nitrogen cycle until the > > 1970's as far as I know.  Just as you're saying though, we knew > > enough (for whatever reason) to do weekly PWC's by the '60's.  I'm > > inclined to believe this may have been due because we realized > > ammonia could build up, even if we didn't yet know about the cycle > > -- and I think we may have learned about growth-inhibiting hormones > > building up. > > > > During my formative years in the tropical fish hobby from the early > > 1950's on, and into the '60's, I never read a thing on the nitrogen > > cycle -- and I made sure to buy a copy of Dr. Innes' "The Aquarium" > > magazine each and every month.  This was a subject that nobody knew > > about -- or if it was known about in public aquariums perhaps (and > > that remains unknown), the topic was never discussed in the hobby > > and it seems as though even those publishers and their authors of > > the hobby magazines at the time knew nothing about it; and some of > > those magazines (such as "Aquarium > > Journal") had leading ichthyologists of the day writing in their > > publications -- who are still well respected until this day as > > leaders in this field. > > > > Before having tropical fish, I was given goldfish in an 8 gallon > > homemade metal-framed tank back in the late 1940's.  At the time, I > > was instructed by my parents to "clean" them every month by removing > > the fish, plants and snails to a small bowl, removing all the water > > in the tank and thoroughly washing the gravel.  Then, the tank was > > set up again with "spankin' clean" gravel and all new water into > > which the fish were placed back into -- good for another month.  > > This was the same maintenance procedure that my mother used 20 years > > before that when my grandmother had goldfish during the 1920's as > > that was the normal, recognized way of taking care of goldfish (and > > no dechlorinator was ever used). > > > > Now, as at least we all knew back then, tropical fish were not as > > hardy as goldfish and needed different care, but too, by then it was > > "realized" even back during the 1930's that there was nothing better > > for your tropical fish than "old water," which was prized. Just as > > you're saying, once we set up a tank it was never disturbed -- and > > our goal was to create a "balanced aquarium."  This concept was even > > taught in biology books of that day, in high school, and certainly > > in the hobby magazines and books.  We didn't do regular weekly PWC's 0A> > as that would mean we'd be throwing out good aged water -- but we > > did have dip tubes to use for cleaning the gravel, which just > > entailed getting the mulm (fish waste, etc.) off of the gravel's > > surface, removing dead leaves off the bottom, etc.  A certain amount > > of this mulm was also prized as it meant for good plant fertilizer.  > > The plants grew and the fish remained healthy.  We were careful not > > to overfeed, and to not allow excess food falling to the substrate > > as we knew the consequences of foul gravel building up over time. > > > > Considering this consequence, a "gravel cleaning" was done about > > every six months, by using a planting stick to stir up the top layer > > of the gravel after which about a 25% PWC was done to remove as much > > gunk as was practical, but this water change was not done with > > keeping regular maintenance in mind but only as a means of getting > > rid of this debris. > > Depending on the fish we kept, and the hardness of our tap water, > > some of us cut our tap water with rain or snow water as was written > > about in the "latest" literature of the time.  Topping off with tap > > water was done between these time, to replace evaporation -- full > > hoods were never especially promoted.  As you said though, tanks > > were never completely broken down, unless a new set up was planned.  > > We did use filters, which obviously must have given us our nitrogen > > cycles even though we never knew it, but power filters were not > > invented yet until 1955 -- and even then -- no one could afford them > > until the prices on them started to come down several years later (I > > didn't have power filters until at least 1960).  So, until then, ALL > > filters were air driven.  Oddly enough, such tanks flourished after > > being set up like this for years.  We never heard of a "pH crash" > > either (and NEVER lost fish as a result of the possibility). > > > > When first setting up a new tank and even for some time afterwards, > > we NEVER had "new-tank-syndrome."  As for stocking the tanks, we > > NEVER knew to wait 6 weeks -- we ALWAYS stocked the tanks within a > > day or two (if not, the same day) of first setting it up -- and we > > NEVER lost a fish due to ammonia or nitrite poisoning as a result of > > a tank not be cycled.  Never even had a fish get sick as a result of > > excess nitrate, surprisingly enough.  I guess the fish never knew > > about the nitrogen cycle either, so there was no reason to even be > > cautious of it.  They (the fish) must have read the same books and > > magazines as we did, which was why we never knew to be concerned > > about the cycle, luckily.  As they say -- "What you don't know, > > won't hurt you."  We didn't know about the cycle, and it never hurt > > us, nor ever killed a fish; it was if the nitrogen cycle never > > existed back then as far as being something needed to keep fish.  > > Certainly we never bothered with it, not having known about it.  We > > did always use a dechlorinator though. > > > > Getting back to "fortnight," Lenny are you sure you didn't just do > > another Google on Wikipedia for that (LOL)? > > Ray > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 42088	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 7/15/2009
Subject: Re: Plant food

From the reading that I've done (no I don't have links I'm replying from my cell), liquid fertz tend to cause algae most people prefer tabs that you can push into the soil near the plant roots. Amber On Jul 15, 2009 4:51 AM, "Lisa" <lisa_lawless2004@...> wrote: Hi guys. I was just wondering what is the best plant food? Liquid? Tablets? Brand? Safe for fish? How much per dosage? My plants are on bogwood, so the roots are not buried Thanks Lisa [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 42089	From: Raymond Wetzel	Date: 7/15/2009
Subject: Re: Plant food

Yeah, I'd have said Tabs too, but Lisa's plants are not rooted in a substrate. As she says, they're on bogwood. How do you push tabs into bogwood? (LOL). You're right though, that liquid fertz can cause algae problems, but that partially depends on how many plants you have to use up the nutrients. If a problem begins to start, cut back on the doseage. I was just giving the doseage recommended on the product but that's not written in stone <G>. Ray --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, Amber Berglund <arberglund@...> wrote: > > From the reading that I've done (no I don't have links I'm replying from my > cell), liquid fertz tend to cause algae most people prefer tabs that you can > push into the soil near the plant roots. > > Amber > > On Jul 15, 2009 4:51 AM, "Lisa" <lisa_lawless2004@...> wrote: > > > > Hi guys. I was just wondering what is the best plant food? > > Liquid? > Tablets? > Brand? > Safe for fish? > How much per dosage? > > My plants are on bogwood, so the roots are not buried > Thanks > > Lisa > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 42090	From: pam andress	Date: 7/15/2009
Subject: Re: In case Pam doesn't get back to me in time.

It doesn't matter. Add away. lol Pam To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com From: arberglund@... Date: Tue, 14 Jul 2009 20:48:46 -0800 Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] In case Pam doesn't get back to me in time. Will adding some of my fry to the tank be a bad thing? Should I keep them separate? Amber pam andress wrote: > > > > Try this link > http://s7.photobucket.com/albums/y262/pamandress/?start=0&newest=1 > <http://s7.photobucket.com/albums/y262/pamandress/?start=0&newest=1> > > I'm not sure if it will work for everyone. I took those tonight. I'm > not that good at taking pics, but I hope you can see the plume tails > on the platies. Some are born without and you need to keep them in the > breeding program or they start to get funny body shapes I'm told. > > Pam > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > From: arberglund@... <mailto:arberglund%40gmail.com> > Date: Tue, 14 Jul 2009 18:48:21 -0800 > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] In case Pam doesn't get back to me in time. > > I would but they've been a little shy since adding them, I'll have to > wait until they calm down from travel. Perhaps if I add some of my own > platy's to the tank they will feel more secure, Pam sent 2, LOL. > Not like I don't have plenty, I lost count after 15 fry. > > Amber > > Gwydryn@... <mailto:Gwydryn%40aol.com> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > In a message dated 7/14/2009 6:34:20 P.M. Central Daylight Time, > > arberglund@... <mailto:arberglund%40gmail.com> > <mailto:arberglund%40gmail.com> writes: > > > > 2 plume tail platties > > one black one orange, LOL. It's okay Pam they're cute. > > > > Amber; > > Can you post pictures of the plumetail platties? Curiosity is killing > > me... > > Oh, what the heck, pictures of the whole haul! > > Enid > > > > "Life is not about waiting for the storms to pass...it's about learning > > how to dance in the rain." > > **************An Excellent Credit Score is 750. See Yours in Just 2 Easy > > Steps! > > > (http://pr.atwola.com/promoclk/100126575x1221323036x1201367247/aol?redir=http://www.freecreditreport.com/pm/default.aspx?sc=668072&hmpgID=62&bcd=Jul > <http://pr.atwola.com/promoclk/100126575x1221323036x1201367247/aol?redir=http://www.freecreditreport.com/pm/default.aspx?sc=668072&hmpgID=62&bcd=Jul> > > > > <http://pr.atwola.com/promoclk/100126575x1221323036x1201367247/aol?redir=http://www.freecreditreport.com/pm/default.aspx?sc=668072&hmpgID=62&bcd=Jul > <http://pr.atwola.com/promoclk/100126575x1221323036x1201367247/aol?redir=http://www.freecreditreport.com/pm/default.aspx?sc=668072&hmpgID=62&bcd=Jul>> > > yExcfooterNO62) > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 42091	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 7/15/2009
Subject: Re: Plant food

Good point on the bog wood, LOL I missed that ;) Amber Raymond Wetzel wrote: > > > Yeah, I'd have said Tabs too, but Lisa's plants are not rooted in a > substrate. As she says, they're on bogwood. How do you push tabs into > bogwood? (LOL). You're right though, that liquid fertz can cause algae > problems, but that partially depends on how many plants you have to > use up the nutrients. If a problem begins to start, cut back on the > doseage. I was just giving the doseage recommended on the product but > that's not written in stone <G>. Ray > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>, Amber Berglund > <arberglund@...> wrote: > > > > From the reading that I've done (no I don't have links I'm replying > from my > > cell), liquid fertz tend to cause algae most people prefer tabs that > you can > > push into the soil near the plant roots. > > > > Amber > > > > On Jul 15, 2009 4:51 AM, "Lisa" <lisa_lawless2004@...> wrote: > > > > > > > > Hi guys. I was just wondering what is the best plant food? > > > > Liquid? > > Tablets? > > Brand? > > Safe for fish? > > How much per dosage? > > > > My plants are on bogwood, so the roots are not buried > > Thanks > > > > Lisa > > > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 42092	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 7/15/2009
Subject: Re: Plant food

Fish poop and pee and CO2 (when they and all the bacteria breathe). What kinds of symptoms are your plants showing that makes you think you need more fertilizers? If your plants are showing signs of nutrient deficiency, then if you want faster growth, you would have to also increase the lighting and CO2 with any added nutrients or you could end up with an algae problem. See this page. http://www.csd.net/~cgadd/aqua/art_plant_nutrient.htm If your tank is not heavily planted and the plants that you have are easy to grow plants, then you should not need any added CO2 or fertilizers... if you have enough fish providing the nutrients and CO2. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Lisa Sent: Wednesday, July 15, 2009 7:51 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Plant food Hi guys. I was just wondering what is the best plant food? Liquid? Tablets? Brand? Safe for fish? How much per dosage? My plants are on bogwood, so the roots are not buried Thanks Lisa ------------------------------------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the home page. Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com to receive the digest, which includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com for the No E-Mail option where you will still be able to read messages on the group and post replies. Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com to receive individual e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 42093	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 7/15/2009
Subject: Re: Tank Maintenance

It was GREAT... almost better than the wheel. I could moon during the winter without getting frostbutt... oops.. I meant frostbite. LOL Maybe, that is one of the reasons that old tanks had slate bottoms, instead of glass. Glass would be more likely to break with the heat of an open flame. Maybe \\Steve// or Ray or one of them could elaborate on this. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Deenerz@... Sent: Wednesday, July 15, 2009 3:55 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: Tank Maintenance So Lenny, How excited were you at the invention of glass? ;) Mike -----Original Message----- From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@...> To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Mon, Jul 13, 2009 9:43 pm Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: Tank Maintenance And as George Santayana (NO \\Steve//, not Carlos Santana ... lol) once said, "Those who cannot remember the past are condemned to repeat it.", so unless you folks want to go back to heating your tanks with open fires under them... or more recently in history, one of them new-fangled incandescent light bulbs underneath them, you should join the AHHS Yahoo Group and learn of how things were done in the "olden days"... when Men were Men and Women told them what to do AND when and how to do it! You see... those who cannot remember the past are condemned to repeat it! OOH... Deja Vu! LOL I wish I had a segue to go into... but I don't.... this was just a random thought that popped into my weary head. Oh yeah... one other thing. Ray, ;-) Yes, I did have to Google to find the author of the original quote which is often mis-quoted as "Those who do not learn from (or ignore) history are doomed to repeat it" and other variations. http://en.wikiquote.org/wiki/George_Santayana http://answers.google.com/answ ers/threadview?id=495329 Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Steve Szabo Sent: Monday, July 13, 2009 7:00 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: Tank Maintenance Ray, I'll see if I can come up with something tonight to post over there. For those who may not know, and may have an interest, Ray and I are talking about a Yahoo list called Aquarium Hobby Historical Society which is basically a bunch of older guys talking about what it was like back in the day. There are some rather illustrious members over there, one of the members is the last living person in the hobby to have worked directly with William T. Innes, and there are others with sterling pedigrees in the hobby as well. Some of the discussions are like the old "You are There" series on TV (though that may be too old a reference for many here). You can learn a lot about the hobby by hanging out over there. \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Raymond Wetzel Sent: Monday, July 13, 2009 9:38 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Tank Maintenance \\Steve//, The time20scale you're outlining seems to be about right. I doubt if we would find much (if any) mention of the nitrogen cycle until the 1970's, and that was probably first brought to the hobby's attention in the marine sector. I don't recall having read anything at all about it even in the 1960's. As I mentioned, I believe we came to learn about possible ammonia build up in the '60's, but even then that part's a little vague -- although we were encouraged by then to do weekly PWC's (but then, I can't remember exacty why). I don't recall freshwater ammonia test kits back in those years as a regular thing, expect perhaps in lab quality kits like LaMotte which were also advertised for the hobby if one wanted to spend that much. I DO know that I knew very little about the consequences of ammonia when coupled with pH. I used to raise lots of young Oscars and sell them to the wholesalers. I remember one time having delivered an order of several hundred Oscars to one of my wholesale customers, when I hadn't done a PWC on them prior to delivering them, that they slowly started to "fold up" after acclimating them to their tanks --their water had a fairly high pH of about 7.8. Apparently, and unknown to me at the time, my water had built up ammonia but remained non-toxic (ammonium) as the pH had dropped below neutral. When releasing these fish (and their water) into the customer's pH 7.8 water, whatever ammonium was in my water suddenly became toxic ammonia in his tanks. Never did figure that one out until information came forth on the topic. Couldn't say I learned from it at the time, as there was no knowledge of this subject published yet, so it remained a mystery for a while, and as far as releasing their water, it was the customer who did this as normal procedure with all his shipments. Apparently, he had no way of knowing about the possible consequences of ammonia/pH either, and just trusted that my fish were disease-free (he never had reason to distrust my shipments in the past). Certainly agree on the cycle information needing to be publicized more widely at present. For one thing, too many noobies feel they don't need to read up on fish keeping as they probably feel you just dump the fish in a tankful of water, feed (overfeed?) and watch them. I think this knowledge should start at the local shops level; after all, they would only stand to benefit as they'd have customers who would stay in the hobby buying more stuff from them. The short-sighted attitude of being able to keep selling the noobies replacement fish doesn't last too long when the customer drops out. That's one thing I distinctly remember years ago, even back in the '50's -- LFS's always had several piles of literature/brochures on the counter as freebies from various manufacturers like Long-Life and Metaframe, etc., even though they didn't contain anything on the cycle back then. T hey should supply this today with every tank purchase -- not just as an optional counter pick-up by the shop goers, but with making sure to include it with the tank purchase, and even drawing it to the attention of their customers not specifically buying a tank. Great idea, moving this topic over to the AHHS. I'm sure it would stir up some discussion, and someone's bound to know more on when the cycle concept was introduced. I'd like to see some of their replies. Ray --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Steve Szabo" <steve@...> wrote: > > Looking through literature cited in Spotte's _Fish and Invertebrate Culture, Second Edition_ (1979), it appears that while the different nitrogenous compounds were known since at least the '50's, no real serious work toward discovering how they fit together seems to appear until the mid-60's. in the scientific literature. Without examining the sources, this would lead me to believe that the nitrogen cycle was not truly found and studied until then. Once science had it, it would then slowly filter down to the hobbyist level, so, probably, if you were looking in hobbyist literature, you probably would not find any mention of it prior to the early '70's. Once it had appeared, it would take some time to really start to be understood and used by hobbyists, however, for the number of questions we have here, it is evident that more work needs to be done to disseminate the information so that even the noob's are made aware of it, if not through reading, then via the local shops where they buy their equipment and fish. Probably a pipe dream though. > > Ray, maybe you and I should move further discussion of this over to AHHS. Some of those guys should know the history of this in the hobby. > > \\Steve// > > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] > On Behalf Of bill 1433 > Sent: Sunday, July 12, 2009 7:55 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: Tank Maintenance > > > Hey Ray!  Same as a previous return today at \\Steve//!!!!! > > Thanks for the memories! This was how I started, or should I say my > Mom did.. She started in the hobby with the neighbor next door and it just a while I was into it myself. > > As I can recall though, there was work being done in the hobby for the > nitrogen cycle, only it was not the Freshwater Team doing it. As I > recall, any mention of it in the magazines fell to our brothers on the Saltwater Team. Although much has, and is still be written about Biological and the Nitrogen cycles and their affects on aquariums, I truly believe that is was from this group that many of the idea's that we seem to hold so dear today came from. > > ol' bill >   > > --- On Sun, 7/12/09, Raymond Wetzel <sevenspringss@...> wrote: > > > From: Raymond Wetzel <sevenspringss@...> > > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Tank Maintenance > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > Date: Sunday, July 12, 2009, 4:44 PM \\Steve//,  I believe you're > > 100% right -- there was no work done on the nitrogen cycle until the > > 1970's as far as I know.  Just as you're saying though, we knew > > enough (for whatever reason) to do weekly PWC's by the '60's.  I'm > > inclined to believe this may have been due because we realized > > ammonia could build up, even if we didn't yet know about the cycle > > -- and I think we may have learned about growth-inhibiting hormones > > building up. > > > > During my formative years in the tropical fish hobby from the early > > 1950's on, and into the '60's, I never read a thing on the nitrogen > > cycle -- and I made sure to buy a copy of Dr. Innes' "The Aquarium" > > magazine each and every month.  This was a subject that nobody knew > > about -- or if it was known about in public aquariums perhaps (and > > that remains unknown), the topic was never discussed in the hobby > > and it seems as though even those publishers and their authors of > > the hobby magazines at the time knew nothing about it; and some of > > those magazines (such as "Aquarium > > Journal") had leading ichthyologists of the day writing in their > > publications -- who are still well respected until this day as > > leaders in this field. > > > > Before having tropical fish, I was given goldfish in an 8 gallon > > homemade metal-framed tank back in the late 1940's.  At the time, I > > was instructed by my parents to "clean" them every month by removing > > the fish, plants and snails to a small bowl, removing all the water > > in the tank and thoroughly washing the gravel.  Then, the tank was > > set up again with "spankin' clean" gravel and all new water into > > which the fish were placed back into -- good for another month. > > This was the same maintenance procedure that my mother used 20 years > > before that when my grandmother had goldfish during the 1920's as > > that was the normal, recognized way of taking care of goldfish (and > > no dechlorinator was ever used). > > > > Now, as at least we all knew back then, tropical fish were not as > > hardy as goldfish and needed different care, but too, by then it was > > "realized" even back during the 1930's that there was nothing better > > for your tropical fish than "old water," which was prized. Just as > > you're saying, once we set up a tank it was never disturbed -- and > > our goal was to create a "balanced aquarium."  This concept was even > > taught in biology books of that day, in high school, and certainly > > in the hobby magazines and books.  We didn't do regular weekly PWC's 0A> > as that would mean we'd be throwing out good aged water -- but we > > did have dip tubes to use for cleaning the gravel, which just > > entailed getting the mulm (fish waste, etc.) off of the gravel's > > surface, removing dead leaves off the bottom, etc.  A certain amount > > of this mulm was also prized as it meant for good plant fertilizer.  > > The plants grew and the fish remained healthy.  We were careful not > > to overfeed, and to not allow excess food falling to the substrate > > as we knew the consequences of foul gravel building up over time. > > > > Considering this consequence, a "gravel cleaning" was done about > > every six months, by using a planting stick to stir up the top layer > > of the gravel after which about a 25% PWC was done to remove as much > > gunk as was practical, but this water change was not done with > > keeping regular maintenance in mind but only as a means of getting > > rid of this debris. > > Depending on the fish we kept, and the hardness of our tap water, > > some of us cut our tap water with rain or snow water as was written > > about in the "latest" literature of the time.  Topping off with tap > > water was done between these time, to replace evaporation -- full > > hoods were never especially promoted.  As you said though, tanks > > were never completely broken down, unless a new set up was planned.  > > We did use filters, which obviously must have given us our nitrogen > > cycles even though we never knew it, but power filters were not > > invented yet until 1955 -- and even then -- no one could afford them > > until the prices on them started to come down several years later (I > > didn't have power filters until at least 1960).  So, until then, ALL > > filters were air driven.  Oddly enough, such tanks flourished after > > being set up like this for years.  We never heard of a "pH crash" > > either (and NEVER lost fish as a result of the possibility). > > > > When first setting up a new tank and even for some time afterwards, > > we NEVER had "new-tank-syndrome."  As for stocking the tanks, we > > NEVER knew to wait 6 weeks -- we ALWAYS stocked the tanks within a > > day or two (if not, the same day) of first setting it up -- and we > > NEVER lost a fish due to ammonia or nitrite poisoning as a result of > > a tank not be cycled.  Never even had a fish get sick as a result of > > excess nitrate, surprisingly enough.  I guess the fish never knew > > about the nitrogen cycle either, so there was no reason to even be > > cautious of it.  They (the fish) must have read the same books and > > magazines as we did, which was why we never knew to be concerned > > about the cycle, luckily.  As they say -- "What you don't know, > > won't hurt you."  We didn't know about the cycle, and it never hurt > > us, nor ever killed a fish; it was if the nitrogen cycle never > > existed back then as far as being something needed to keep fish.  > > Certainly we never bothered with it, not having known about it.  We > > did always use a dechlorinator though. > > > > Getting back to "fortnight," Lenny are you sure you didn't just do > > another Google on Wikipedia for that (LOL)? > > Ray

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 42094	From: Beth Brownell	Date: 7/15/2009
Subject: I invited a friend to join the group.

She has three tanks and she called me asking about this group as she was searching for an Aquarium group to talk tanks and fish with, and she called me off my Craigslist ad that I had up today. She should be joining up shortly. I hope everyone can help her out with her fishes. :) Beth F Brownell

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 42095	From: Lisa Lawless	Date: 7/15/2009
Subject: re; Problematic swordtail

Hello Ray.   I do weekly pwc's I have two live plants on bogwood in my tank. And I did a pwc last night. Now the PH is still just under 7.0. But is not as low as it was before I did the pwc. So I am a little happier with that PH reading.   I added one extra drop of the water conditioner then I normally put in, and it seemed to raise the PH slightly. I did a full gravel vac as well as a 10% pwc. And it seemed to perk up my swordtail for some time.   But again this morning, I can’t see him in the tank and he is the only one in there exhibiting this sort of behavior   My 7 month old fry are also eating my plants! My dwarf anubias. Why? My fish get fed once every second day on a varied diet.   Just the other night I tried them on a floret of broccoli, and they loved it. But they also, get a range of freeze dried bloodworms, Tubifex cubes, tropical pellet formulations, and an occasional live blackworm, or brine shrimp treat.   My male albino bristlenose catfish, is ignoring the algae disks I’m putting in, as well as the sinking ‘bottom dweller’ food tabs. But seems to still be lively. I think he’s rasping the bogwood. I see him on occasion darting from his amazon leaf, to one of the pieces of wood, briefly pausing there, then back up again.   My baby bristlenose (still to young to sex) loves hanging out on the side of the glass. So it must be finding some micro algae or something. I have a small replica crocodile skull in there, which seems to constantly be covered in green algae in the crevices . So there’s that too.   Lisa   ____________________________________________________________________________________ Access Yahoo!7 Mail on your mobile. Anytime. Anywhere. Show me how: http://au.mobile.yahoo.com/mail [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 42096	From: Lisa Lawless	Date: 7/15/2009
Subject: re; Plant food

Hey guys. The plants i have a dwarf anubia, and a rather impressive amazon sword, both on separate pieces of bogwood.   The amazon sword, had one leaf, that is starting to look brown and 'crispy' down it's side. This is what prompted the thought that maybe it needs to be feed.  Should i remove the offending leaf?   Lisa   ____________________________________________________________________________________ Access Yahoo!7 Mail on your mobile. Anytime. Anywhere. Show me how: http://au.mobile.yahoo.com/mail [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 42097	From: Byron	Date: 7/15/2009
Subject: Re: Plant food

If you need a fertilizer, liquid is the only option for your plants since they are not rooted in the substrate; as others pointed out, tabs in the substrate would be of no use to Java Fern, Anubias, etc. that is rooted on wood or rocks. And excess substrate fertilizer will cause nutrient excess leading to algae and high nitrates. Another response referenced a chart of symptoms. A word of caution: as mentioned in that chart, diagnosing plant problems is not easy. Thinking this or that is a deficiency of one nutrient does not mean the answer is adding that nutrient. Plants require several macro- and micro-nutrients and in a specific balance (and this must balance the available light and CO2 as well). If one nutrient is in excess, it can cause a condition in the plants that results in other nutrients being "refused" so to speak. The safest course of action is to use only a balanced aquatic plant fertilizer. I have had great success with Seachem's Flourish Comprehensive, and also Kent's Freshwater Plant Supplement. Both (according to the manufacturer) provide all the necessary nutrients and in the correct balance. Being aware of situations where one nutrient was added on its own and the plants began to melt (swords and crypts) I think this is extremely important. As for the increased algae that others mentioned, adding liquid fertilizer will only cause this if added in excess, i.e., more than what the available plants can utilize. Someone mentioned plants using fish poop, etc., and that is perfectly true. If your only plants are Java Fern, I would be careful on adding fertilizer. But at the same time, if the plants obviously need something, a balanced liquid is the way to go. Tap water provides some macro- and micro-nutrients, but not all, and other biological actions are not sufficient either (depending in part on the number and type of plants) so these have to come from the aquarist. --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Lisa" <lisa_lawless2004@...> wrote: > > Hi guys. I was just wondering what is the best plant food? > > Liquid? > Tablets? > Brand? > Safe for fish? > How much per dosage? > > My plants are on bogwood, so the roots are not buried > Thanks > > Lisa >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 42098	From: Natalie Beacom	Date: 7/15/2009
Subject: Newbie here

HEllO!! I'm new here but not to the world of tanks and fish. We have a 220g fish tank with cichlids & a lot of others. Also 125g and a 30g with turtles.. we have 13 aquatic turtles and also an alligator. I posted a lot of pictures but they have to be looked over by the mods first so hopefully they will be on here soon. I'm glad to be here and i hope to gain more info then what I know already!!!

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 42099	From: biG poppa	Date: 7/15/2009
Subject: Re: Newbie here

Welcome to the club..   what concerns me is did you say a gator in the tank? --- On Wed, 7/15/09, Natalie Beacom <beautiful_blonde_loves_aaron@...> wrote: From: Natalie Beacom <beautiful_blonde_loves_aaron@...> Subject: [AquaticLife] Newbie here To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Date: Wednesday, July 15, 2009, 8:12 PM   HEllO!! I'm new here but not to the world of tanks and fish. We have a 220g fish tank with cichlids & a lot of others. Also 125g and a 30g with turtles.. we have 13 aquatic turtles and also an alligator. I posted a lot of pictures but they have to be looked over by the mods first so hopefully they will be on here soon. I'm glad to be here and i hope to gain more info then what I know already!!! [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 42100	From: Natalie Beacom	Date: 7/15/2009
Subject: Re: Newbie here

its in the 125g with the turtles lol the 220g is just for fish.. --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, biG poppa <greychildren@...> wrote: > > Welcome to the club.. >   > what concerns me is did you say a gator in the tank? > > --- On Wed, 7/15/09, Natalie Beacom <beautiful_blonde_loves_aaron@...> wrote: > > > From: Natalie Beacom <beautiful_blonde_loves_aaron@...> > Subject: [AquaticLife] Newbie here > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Date: Wednesday, July 15, 2009, 8:12 PM > > >   > > > > HEllO!! > > I'm new here but not to the world of tanks and fish. We have a 220g fish tank with cichlids & a lot of others. Also 125g and a 30g with turtles.. we have 13 aquatic turtles and also an alligator. I posted a lot of pictures but they have to be looked over by the mods first so hopefully they will be on here soon. I'm glad to be here and i hope to gain more info then what I know already!!! > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 42101	From: biG poppa	Date: 7/15/2009
Subject: Re: Newbie here

hi Natalie know that gators get 6 plus feet long and can harm you or you love ones these reptiles are not to be keepet as pets  and in some states are illegal to keep as pets.. so tell me a little about you 125g...... --- On Wed, 7/15/09, Natalie Beacom <beautiful_blonde_loves_aaron@...> wrote: From: Natalie Beacom <beautiful_blonde_loves_aaron@...> Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Newbie here To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Date: Wednesday, July 15, 2009, 8:33 PM   its in the 125g with the turtles lol the 220g is just for fish.. --- In AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com, biG poppa <greychildren@ ...> wrote: > > Welcome to the club.. >   > what concerns me is did you say a gator in the tank? > > --- On Wed, 7/15/09, Natalie Beacom <beautiful_blonde_ loves_aaron@ ...> wrote: > > > From: Natalie Beacom <beautiful_blonde_ loves_aaron@ ...> > Subject: [AquaticLife] Newbie here > To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com > Date: Wednesday, July 15, 2009, 8:12 PM > > >   > > > > HEllO!! > > I'm new here but not to the world of tanks and fish. We have a 220g fish tank with cichlids & a lot of others. Also 125g and a 30g with turtles.. we have 13 aquatic turtles and also an alligator. I posted a lot of pictures but they have to be looked over by the mods first so hopefully they will be on here soon. I'm glad to be here and i hope to gain more info then what I know already!!! > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 42102	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 7/15/2009
Subject: Re: re; Problematic swordtail

Once every other day for fish is not enough... AND especially not for young fish (fry and juvis). Fry should be fed many times a day as they have very high metabolisms since they are growing at a much faster rate than juvi sized fish which should be fed a couple of times a day and then once they reach adult size, they are no longer growing and only need enough food to sustain themselves, not sustain and feed their accelerated growth as well, so once or twice a day for adult fish is fine... occasionally skipping a day. If they do not get enough food, they will resort to eating your plants, as you are seeing. I would consider 7 mo. old fish as being juvis, not fry, but until they reach full adult size, you should feed them more often than adult size fish might need. It's just like with us humans. Newborns (fry) scream their lungs out for food every four hours or so. Kids (juvis) need their three balanced meals a day plus snacks. Us adults might only eat two meals a day and sometimes we even get fat when we look at food. LOL You should also be doing more than just a 10% PWC each week. Fry and the other fish all release hormones into the water and if these levels get too high, fish will start to stunt their growth which is not a good thing. Part of stunting is based on trying to survive by not outgrowing their home (whether it be an overstocked lake or our home aquariums) BUT the downside is that stunted fish are also stressed fish and stressed fish are more susceptible to getting sick. You may want to bump up your PWC schedule to a few times a week and then do 20% or more each time. This will also keep the tank's pH more stabile in between PWC's. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Lisa Lawless Sent: Wednesday, July 15, 2009 6:50 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] re; Problematic swordtail Hello Ray.   I do weekly pwc's I have two live plants on bogwood in my tank. And I did a pwc last night. Now the PH is still just under 7.0. But is not as low as it was before I did the pwc. So I am a little happier with that PH reading.   I added one extra drop of the water conditioner then I normally put in, and it seemed to raise the PH slightly. I did a full gravel vac as well as a 10% pwc. And it seemed to perk up my swordtail for some time.   But again this morning, I can’t see him in the tank and he is the only one in there exhibiting this sort of behavior   My 7 month old fry are also eating my plants! My dwarf anubias. Why? My fish get fed once every second day on a varied diet.   Just the other night I tried them on a floret of broccoli, and they loved it. But they also, get a range of freeze dried bloodworms, Tubifex cubes, tropical pellet formulations, and an occasional live blackworm, or brine shrimp treat.   My male albino bristlenose catfish, is ignoring the algae disks I’m putting in, as well as the sinking ‘bottom dweller’ food tabs. But seems to still be lively. I think he’s rasping the bogwood. I see him on occasion darting from his amazon leaf, to one of the pieces of wood, briefly pausing there, then back up again.   My baby bristlenose (still to young to sex) loves hanging out on the side of the glass. So it must be finding some micro algae or something. I have a small replica crocodile skull in there, which seems to constantly be covered in green algae in the crevices . So there’s that too.   Lisa

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 42103	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 7/15/2009
Subject: Re: Newbie here

I noticed you had two albums, "My 220G" and "My 220G Cichlid Tank". Did you do this in error? You can see the two albums here. One has 11 pics and one has only 1 pic, which is one of the same pics in the album with 11 pics. http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife/photos/album/0/list?mode=tn&order= mtime&start=1&count=20&dir=asc How long has it been set up on that DIY stand? Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Natalie Beacom Sent: Wednesday, July 15, 2009 7:12 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Newbie here HEllO!! I'm new here but not to the world of tanks and fish. We have a 220g fish tank with cichlids & a lot of others. Also 125g and a 30g with turtles.. we have 13 aquatic turtles and also an alligator. I posted a lot of pictures but they have to be looked over by the mods first so hopefully they will be on here soon. I'm glad to be here and i hope to gain more info then what I know already!!!

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 42104	From: Lisa	Date: 7/15/2009
Subject: Re: re; Problematic swordtail

Okay, so more feedings a day for the jouvies, and more frequent pwc's I can manage that. I could prehaps manage 2 feedings in a day. One before i leave for work, and on ewhen i get home at night. And maybe a third, just before i go to bed. Thanks guys.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 42105	From: Natalie Beacom	Date: 7/15/2009
Subject: Re: Newbie here

yeah it was error sorry --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@...> wrote: > > I noticed you had two albums, "My 220G" and "My 220G Cichlid Tank". Did you > do this in error? You can see the two albums here. One has 11 pics and one > has only 1 pic, which is one of the same pics in the album with 11 pics. > > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife/photos/album/0/list?mode=tn&order= > mtime&start=1&count=20&dir=asc > > How long has it been set up on that DIY stand? > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right > side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) > > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On > Behalf Of Natalie Beacom > Sent: Wednesday, July 15, 2009 7:12 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Subject: [AquaticLife] Newbie here > > HEllO!! > > I'm new here but not to the world of tanks and fish. We have a 220g fish > tank with cichlids & a lot of others. Also 125g and a 30g with turtles.. we > have 13 aquatic turtles and also an alligator. I posted a lot of pictures > but they have to be looked over by the mods first so hopefully they will be > on here soon. I'm glad to be here and i hope to gain more info then what I > know already!!! >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 42106	From: Natalie Beacom	Date: 7/15/2009
Subject: Re: Newbie here

Thanks for the info but I know this. We live out of town in Springfield you cant have them in city limits. I also take in unwanted reptiles and find them homes more suited to them. This is our 2nd alligator. The first one went to the St louis zoo when it got to big. --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, biG poppa <greychildren@...> wrote: > > hi Natalie know that gators get 6 plus feet long and can harm you or you love ones these reptiles are not to be keepet as pets  and in some states are illegal to keep as pets.. so tell me a little about you 125g...... > > --- On Wed, 7/15/09, Natalie Beacom <beautiful_blonde_loves_aaron@...> wrote: > > > From: Natalie Beacom <beautiful_blonde_loves_aaron@...> > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Newbie here > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Date: Wednesday, July 15, 2009, 8:33 PM > > >   > > > > its in the 125g with the turtles lol the 220g is just for fish.. > > --- In AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com, biG poppa <greychildren@ ...> wrote: > > > > Welcome to the club.. > >   > > what concerns me is did you say a gator in the tank? > > > > --- On Wed, 7/15/09, Natalie Beacom <beautiful_blonde_ loves_aaron@ ...> wrote: > > > > > > From: Natalie Beacom <beautiful_blonde_ loves_aaron@ ...> > > Subject: [AquaticLife] Newbie here > > To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com > > Date: Wednesday, July 15, 2009, 8:12 PM > > > > > >   > > > > > > > > HEllO!! > > > > I'm new here but not to the world of tanks and fish. We have a 220g fish tank with cichlids & a lot of others. Also 125g and a 30g with turtles.. we have 13 aquatic turtles and also an alligator. I posted a lot of pictures but they have to be looked over by the mods first so hopefully they will be on here soon. I'm glad to be here and i hope to gain more info then what I know already!!! > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 42107	From: harry perry	Date: 7/15/2009
Subject: Re: Newbie here/Natalie

I find your address more interesting than your alligator. beautiful blonde loves aaron. AAron is the name of the group owner, but then you knew that. Harry --- On Wed, 7/15/09, Natalie Beacom <beautiful_blonde_loves_aaron@...> wrote: From: Natalie Beacom <beautiful_blonde_loves_aaron@...> Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Newbie here To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Date: Wednesday, July 15, 2009, 10:33 PM   Thanks for the info but I know this. We live out of town in Springfield you cant have them in city limits. I also take in unwanted reptiles and find them homes more suited to them. This is our 2nd alligator. The first one went to the St louis zoo when it got to big. --- In AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com, biG poppa <greychildren@ ...> wrote: > > hi Natalie know that gators get 6 plus feet long and can harm you or you love ones these reptiles are not to be keepet as pets  and in some states are illegal to keep as pets.. so tell me a little about you 125g...... > > --- On Wed, 7/15/09, Natalie Beacom <beautiful_blonde_ loves_aaron@ ...> wrote: > > > From: Natalie Beacom <beautiful_blonde_ loves_aaron@ ...> > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Newbie here > To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com > Date: Wednesday, July 15, 2009, 8:33 PM > > >   > > > > its in the 125g with the turtles lol the 220g is just for fish.. > > --- In AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com, biG poppa <greychildren@ ...> wrote: > > > > Welcome to the club.. > >   > > what concerns me is did you say a gator in the tank? > > > > --- On Wed, 7/15/09, Natalie Beacom <beautiful_blonde_ loves_aaron@ ...> wrote: > > > > > > From: Natalie Beacom <beautiful_blonde_ loves_aaron@ ...> > > Subject: [AquaticLife] Newbie here > > To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com > > Date: Wednesday, July 15, 2009, 8:12 PM > > > > > >   > > > > > > > > HEllO!! > > > > I'm new here but not to the world of tanks and fish. We have a 220g fish tank with cichlids & a lot of others. Also 125g and a 30g with turtles.. we have 13 aquatic turtles and also an alligator. I posted a lot of pictures but they have to be looked over by the mods first so hopefully they will be on here soon. I'm glad to be here and i hope to gain more info then what I know already!!! > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 42108	From: Natalie Beacom	Date: 7/15/2009
Subject: Re: Newbie here/Natalie

I did not know that lol Aaron is my husband's name lol.. Weird. How I actually got the name is I was dating a guy by the name of Aaron at the time (not my husband) when I was in 10th grade I'm 26 now. I made the name up then. I kept it because I didn't want to make another name and never dreamed that I'd married another guy named Aaron lol. Now this it's weird. Oh NOW I know why he excepted my invite to this group wink wink.. lmao J/K --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, harry perry <harryfisherman@...> wrote: > > I find your address more interesting than your alligator. beautiful blonde loves aaron. > > AAron is the name of the group owner, but then you knew that. > > Harry > > --- On Wed, 7/15/09, Natalie Beacom <beautiful_blonde_loves_aaron@...> wrote: > > From: Natalie Beacom <beautiful_blonde_loves_aaron@...> > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Newbie here > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Date: Wednesday, July 15, 2009, 10:33 PM > > > > > > >   > > > > > > Thanks for the info but I know this. We live out of town in Springfield you cant have them in city limits. I also take in unwanted reptiles and find them homes more suited to them. This is our 2nd alligator. The first one went to the St louis zoo when it got to big. > > > > --- In AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com, biG poppa <greychildren@ ...> wrote: > > > > > > hi Natalie know that gators get 6 plus feet long and can harm you or you love ones these reptiles are not to be keepet as pets  and in some states are illegal to keep as pets.. so tell me a little about you 125g...... > > > > > > --- On Wed, 7/15/09, Natalie Beacom <beautiful_blonde_ loves_aaron@ ...> wrote: > > > > > > > > > From: Natalie Beacom <beautiful_blonde_ loves_aaron@ ...> > > > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Newbie here > > > To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com > > > Date: Wednesday, July 15, 2009, 8:33 PM > > > > > > > > >   > > > > > > > > > > > > its in the 125g with the turtles lol the 220g is just for fish.. > > > > > > --- In AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com, biG poppa <greychildren@ ...> wrote: > > > > > > > > Welcome to the club.. > > > >   > > > > what concerns me is did you say a gator in the tank? > > > > > > > > --- On Wed, 7/15/09, Natalie Beacom <beautiful_blonde_ loves_aaron@ ...> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > From: Natalie Beacom <beautiful_blonde_ loves_aaron@ ...> > > > > Subject: [AquaticLife] Newbie here > > > > To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com > > > > Date: Wednesday, July 15, 2009, 8:12 PM > > > > > > > > > > > >   > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > HEllO!! > > > > > > > > I'm new here but not to the world of tanks and fish. We have a 220g fish tank with cichlids & a lot of others. Also 125g and a 30g with turtles.. we have 13 aquatic turtles and also an alligator. I posted a lot of pictures but they have to be looked over by the mods first so hopefully they will be on here soon. I'm glad to be here and i hope to gain more info then what I know already!!! > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 42109	From: Lisa	Date: 7/16/2009
Subject: Another question about feeding green veggies

Can i put brussels sprouts in for them? Lisa

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 42110	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 7/16/2009
Subject: Re: Another question about feeding green veggies

I've never tried them for fish but you can try. Make sure you steam/blanche the veggies first, in case you aren't already doing so. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Lisa Sent: Thursday, July 16, 2009 3:46 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Another question about feeding green veggies Can i put brussels sprouts in for them? Lisa

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 42111	From: bill 1433	Date: 7/16/2009
Subject: Re: Another question about feeding green veggies

Yes but if you put brussel sprouts in your aquarium wouldn't that be considered cruelty to animals?   Bill --- On Thu, 7/16/09, Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@...> wrote: From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@...> Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Another question about feeding green veggies To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Date: Thursday, July 16, 2009, 10:36 AM I've never tried them for fish but you can try.  Make sure you steam/blanche the veggies first, in case you aren't already doing so.  Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Lisa Sent: Thursday, July 16, 2009 3:46 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Another question about feeding green veggies Can i put brussels sprouts in for them? Lisa ------------------------------------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the home page.  Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com to receive the digest, which includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com for the No E-Mail option where you will still be able to read messages on the group and post replies. Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com to receive individual e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 42112	From: Menagerie_Manager	Date: 7/16/2009
Subject: Re: Another question about feeding green veggies

I doubt any Brussels sprouts I prepare would survive to reach the aquarium. I am sooo addicted to them! I must be missing a nutrient in my diet. DebR and the Three Goldfish (CB, Lucille, and Raven) ----- Original Message ----- From: "bill 1433" <warrenprint@...> Yes but if you put brussel sprouts in your aquarium wouldn't that be considered cruelty to animals?

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 42113	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 7/16/2009
Subject: Re: In case Pam doesn't get back to me in time.

Only managed to catch 2 young platies go figure I think all 4 are female too lol. And the plecos all look great pooping and eating like crazy. Lost a few smaller snails but you sent tons lol. I rarely see the cherry shrimp will they come out more after they feel more secure? Amber On Jul 15, 2009 7:28 AM, "pam andress" <pamandress23@...> wrote: It doesn't matter. Add away. lol Pam To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com From: arberglund@... <arberglund%40gmail.com> Date: Tue, 14 Jul 2009 20:48:46 -0800 Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] In case Pam doesn't get back to me in time. Will adding some of my fry ... [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 42114	From: sandi turner	Date: 7/16/2009
Subject: Re: Another question about feeding green veggies

It would be in my opinion!!! Sandi --- On Thu, 7/16/09, bill 1433 <warrenprint@...> wrote: From: bill 1433 <warrenprint@...> Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Another question about feeding green veggies To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Date: Thursday, July 16, 2009, 1:07 PM   Yes but if you put brussel sprouts in your aquarium wouldn't that be considered cruelty to animals?   Bill --- On Thu, 7/16/09, Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@gmail. com> wrote: From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@gmail. com> Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Another question about feeding green veggies To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com Date: Thursday, July 16, 2009, 10:36 AM I've never tried them for fish but you can try.  Make sure you steam/blanche the veggies first, in case you aren't already doing so.  Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com [mailto:AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com] On Behalf Of Lisa Sent: Thursday, July 16, 2009 3:46 AM To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com Subject: [AquaticLife] Another question about feeding green veggies Can i put brussels sprouts in for them? Lisa ------------ --------- --------- ------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the home page.  Or e-mail aquaticlife- digest@yahoogrou ps.com to receive the digest, which includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email Or email aquaticlife- nomail@yahoogrou ps.com for the No E-Mail option where you will still be able to read messages on the group and post replies. Or email aquaticlife- normal@yahoogrou ps.com to receive individual e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 42115	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 7/16/2009
Subject: Re: In case Pam doesn't get back to me in time.

Often, when Cherry Shrimp are moved into a new home, they'll molt right away so that is likely why you are not seeing them. Hopefully your fish haven't decided to have a shrimp cocktail. What fish do you have in the tank with the Cherry Shrimp? I don't know if they are ever really secure except with the smallest of fish and/or herbivorous fish. Especially baby shrimp. They are so tiny. Even adult Cherry Shrimp barely reach 3/4". Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Amber Berglund Sent: Thursday, July 16, 2009 1:04 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: RE: [AquaticLife] In case Pam doesn't get back to me in time. Only managed to catch 2 young platies go figure I think all 4 are female too lol. And the plecos all look great pooping and eating like crazy. Lost a few smaller snails but you sent tons lol. I rarely see the cherry shrimp will they come out more after they feel more secure? Amber On Jul 15, 2009 7:28 AM, "pam andress" <pamandress23@...> wrote: It doesn't matter. Add away. lol Pam To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com From: arberglund@... <arberglund%40gmail.com> Date: Tue, 14 Jul 2009 20:48:46 -0800 Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] In case Pam doesn't get back to me in time. Will adding some of my fry ...

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 42116	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 7/16/2009
Subject: Re: Another question about feeding green veggies

If my personal experience with Brussels Sprouts is any indication the TOP cartoon on this page is the most likely outcome of feeding them to the fish. http://goldlenny.blogspot.com/search/label/Jokes But... as a great scholar once said... OK.. maybe Eddie Murphy isn't a great scholar... but he did say "It's a Jacuzzi!" ;-) Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of sandi turner Sent: Thursday, July 16, 2009 12:31 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Another question about feeding green veggies It would be in my opinion!!! Sandi --- On Thu, 7/16/09, bill 1433 <warrenprint@...> wrote: From: bill 1433 <warrenprint@...> Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Another question about feeding green veggies To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Date: Thursday, July 16, 2009, 1:07 PM   Yes but if you put brussel sprouts in your aquarium wouldn't that be considered cruelty to animals?   Bill --- On Thu, 7/16/09, Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@gmail. com> wrote: From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@gmail. com> Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Another question about feeding green veggies To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com Date: Thursday, July 16, 2009, 10:36 AM I've never tried them for fish but you can try.  Make sure you steam/blanche the veggies first, in case you aren't already doing so.  Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com [mailto:AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com] On Behalf Of Lisa Sent: Thursday, July 16, 2009 3:46 AM To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com Subject: [AquaticLife] Another question about feeding green veggies Can i put brussels sprouts in for them? Lisa

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 42117	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 7/16/2009
Subject: Re: In case Pam doesn't get back to me in time.

These were about 3/4 of an inch maybe a little smaller, so decent size. I still see them after dark, but not during the day. I have it in my 55 gallon community tank, with young (small) platies, my 8 purple passion danio's, and 5 guppy's, oh and the 6 cory's. And of course all the snails ;) LOL And the tiny pleco's. I'd say out of all that list the ones most likely to try eating them are the danio's and guppy's. Hopefully enough survive and reproduce fast ;) LOL I may have to get more from Pam later ;) Amber Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > > > Often, when Cherry Shrimp are moved into a new home, they'll molt > right away > so that is likely why you are not seeing them. Hopefully your fish haven't > decided to have a shrimp cocktail. What fish do you have in the tank with > the Cherry Shrimp? I don't know if they are ever really secure except with > the smallest of fish and/or herbivorous fish. Especially baby shrimp. They > are so tiny. Even adult Cherry Shrimp barely reach 3/4". > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right > side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On > Behalf Of Amber Berglund > Sent: Thursday, July 16, 2009 1:04 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Subject: Re: RE: [AquaticLife] In case Pam doesn't get back to me in time. > > Only managed to catch 2 young platies go figure I think all 4 are > female too > lol. And the plecos all look great pooping and eating like crazy. Lost > a few > smaller snails but you sent tons lol. I rarely see the cherry shrimp will > they come out more after they feel more secure? > > Amber > > On Jul 15, 2009 7:28 AM, "pam andress" <pamandress23@... > <mailto:pamandress23%40hotmail.com>> wrote: > > It doesn't matter. Add away. lol > > Pam To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > From: arberglund@... <mailto:arberglund%40gmail.com> > <arberglund%40gmail.com> > Date: Tue, 14 Jul 2009 20:48:46 -0800 > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] In case Pam doesn't get back to me in time. > Will > adding some of my fry ... > > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 42118	From: Gail	Date: 7/16/2009
Subject: Re: Another question about feeding green veggies

So, I am curious too. What kind of veggies do you all put in your tanks, besides blanched zuchini? And apparently brussel sprouts (cringe) I guess I am reaching for other veggie options here ;) ~gail

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 42119	From: Shirley Reichard	Date: 7/16/2009
Subject: Aquawood?

What is "aquawood"? Hubby brought a piece home from Petco. He said it's a "living," has good bacteria, and helps soften the water. (We've had trouble keeping the ph up in that tank.) A quick web search didn't turn up anything. It looks like driftwood to me. The plec has been sucking on it. I've never been impressed with Petco staff, so I've come here for more info about this so-called aquawood. Thanks.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 42120	From: aaron102272	Date: 7/16/2009
Subject: "feeding green veggies"

Here are some I've tried ~ fruits & veggies: Zucchini, Broccoli, Kale, Spinach, Lettuce, Potatoes, Peas(out of shell), Tomatoes, Squash, Cucumber, Dried Seaweed, other foods: Cooked Rice, Boiled Egg Yolk edible live plants: echinodorus rose, anubias nana, Riccia, Hornwort, anachris, duckweed, cabomba, Limnophylla, --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Gail" <clandestine662002@...> wrote: > > So, I am curious too. What kind of veggies do you all put in your tanks, besides blanched zuchini? And apparently brussel sprouts (cringe) > I guess I am reaching for other veggie options here ;) > > ~gail >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 42121	From: aaron102272	Date: 7/16/2009
Subject: Re: Aquawood?

not sure, but I think if it softens the water it also lowers the pH at the same time, maybe again, not sure --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Shirley Reichard" <shrlycat@...> wrote: > > What is "aquawood"? Hubby brought a piece home from Petco. He said it's a "living," has good bacteria, and helps soften the water. (We've had trouble keeping the ph up in that tank.) A quick web search didn't turn up anything. It looks like driftwood to me. The plec has been sucking on it. > > I've never been impressed with Petco staff, so I've come here for more info about this so-called aquawood. Thanks. >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 42122	From: Gwydryn@aol.com	Date: 7/16/2009
Subject: Re: Another question about feeding green veggies

In a message dated 7/16/2009 5:41:47 P.M. Central Daylight Time, clandestine662002@... writes: So, I am curious too. What kind of veggies do you all put in your tanks, besides blanched zucchini? And apparently brussel sprouts (cringe) I guess I am reaching for other veggie options here ;) ~gail yellow squash, zucchini, cucumbers,broccoli.,hearts of romaine...whole, un blanched, but then again my pleco is about 16 inches long and does quick work of it all. One at a time, every third day. Enid "Life is not about waiting for the storms to pass...it's about learning how to dance in the rain." **************S T R E T C H your technology dollars with great laptop deals from Dell! (http://pr.atwola.com/promoclk/100126575x1223081712x1201714210/aol?redir=http:%2F%2Faltfarm.mediaplex.com%2Fad%2Fck%2F12309%2D81939%2D1629%2 D5) [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 42123	From: Lisa Lawless	Date: 7/16/2009
Subject: Re: Another question about feeding green veggies

Okay, maybe I'm having a blonde moment here...but why would putting Brussels in be bad? They were boiled, and they're green... I'm trying to provide a green veg component to my catfish's diet here. Aside from the generic commercial formulations. So I've tried the green bean, which was ...ho hum, then i tried the broccoli floret, and that was popular, and now I'm trying half of a Brussels sprout. And unless it's gonna put their life in any immidiate danger. I've got to try to know if they'll like them right?   Lisa   ____________________________________________________________________________________ Access Yahoo!7 Mail on your mobile. Anytime. Anywhere. Show me how: http://au.mobile.yahoo.com/mail [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 42125	From: Donna Ransome	Date: 7/16/2009
Subject: Re: Aquawood?

Why would you want to soften the water if you are trying to keep pH up? _____ From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Shirley Reichard Sent: Thursday, July 16, 2009 5:41 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Aquawood? What is "aquawood"? Hubby brought a piece home from Petco. He said it's a "living," has good bacteria, and helps soften the water. (We've had trouble keeping the ph up in that tank.) A quick web search didn't turn up anything. It looks like driftwood to me. The plec has been sucking on it. I've never been impressed with Petco staff, so I've come here for more info about this so-called aquawood. Thanks. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 42126	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 7/16/2009
Subject: Good thing I don't have 500 laying around in spare cash.

There's someone in town selling their 500 gallon aquarium for 500 bucks OBO, good thing hubby hasn't seen the ad he may have burned the paper before I got to read it, LOL. Amber

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 42127	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 7/16/2009
Subject: Re: Aquawood?

You need to add crushed coral or something of that nature to your filter like I did to keep my pH stable. If you have little to no GH/KH in your tap water then your pH will fluctuate especially if you have live plants using up nutrients. Amber Donna Ransome wrote: > > > Why would you want to soften the water if you are trying to keep pH up? > > _____ > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On > Behalf Of Shirley Reichard > Sent: Thursday, July 16, 2009 5:41 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Subject: [AquaticLife] Aquawood? > > What is "aquawood"? Hubby brought a piece home from Petco. He said it's a > "living," has good bacteria, and helps soften the water. (We've had > trouble > keeping the ph up in that tank.) A quick web search didn't turn up > anything. > It looks like driftwood to me. The plec has been sucking on it. > > I've never been impressed with Petco staff, so I've come here for more > info > about this so-called aquawood. Thanks. > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 42128	From: biG poppa	Date: 7/16/2009
Subject: Re: Good thing I don't have 500 laying around in spare cash.

lmao....don't get in trouble their spamber....so how are the new fishes.... --- On Thu, 7/16/09, Amber Berglund <arberglund@...> wrote: From: Amber Berglund <arberglund@...> Subject: [AquaticLife] Good thing I don't have 500 laying around in spare cash. To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Date: Thursday, July 16, 2009, 9:24 PM   There's someone in town selling their 500 gallon aquarium for 500 bucks OBO, good thing hubby hasn't seen the ad he may have burned the paper before I got to read it, LOL. Amber [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 42129	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 7/16/2009
Subject: Re: Good thing I don't have 500 laying around in spare cash.

they're all doing great... Now I just need more female guppy's poor girls are getting picked on, I think I lost one awhile back and forgot when i bought more males, LOL. My 2 girls are outnumbered and I know they need more girls in there so the boys won't pick on them so much. They're also about ready to have babies any day now. Amber biG poppa wrote: > > > lmao....don't get in trouble their spamber....so how are the new > fishes.... > > --- On Thu, 7/16/09, Amber Berglund <arberglund@... > <mailto:arberglund%40gmail.com>> wrote: > > From: Amber Berglund <arberglund@... > <mailto:arberglund%40gmail.com>> > Subject: [AquaticLife] Good thing I don't have 500 laying around in > spare cash. > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Date: Thursday, July 16, 2009, 9:24 PM > > > > There's someone in town selling their 500 gallon aquarium for 500 bucks > > OBO, good thing hubby hasn't seen the ad he may have burned the paper > > before I got to read it, LOL. > > Amber > > > > > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 42130	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 7/16/2009
Subject: Re: In case Pam doesn't get back to me in time.

Okay rest assured there's still a few of them in there and they're a nice dark red so I don't think they've molted (yet?). They're just hiding under the rocks in in the nook's/cranny's, is this normal? Perhaps all the business of the danio's scares them into hiding, or do they not like light? I hear they breed like rabbits, is that true? ;) Amber Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > > > Often, when Cherry Shrimp are moved into a new home, they'll molt > right away > so that is likely why you are not seeing them. Hopefully your fish haven't > decided to have a shrimp cocktail. What fish do you have in the tank with > the Cherry Shrimp? I don't know if they are ever really secure except with > the smallest of fish and/or herbivorous fish. Especially baby shrimp. They > are so tiny. Even adult Cherry Shrimp barely reach 3/4". > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right > side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On > Behalf Of Amber Berglund > Sent: Thursday, July 16, 2009 1:04 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Subject: Re: RE: [AquaticLife] In case Pam doesn't get back to me in time. > > Only managed to catch 2 young platies go figure I think all 4 are > female too > lol. And the plecos all look great pooping and eating like crazy. Lost > a few > smaller snails but you sent tons lol. I rarely see the cherry shrimp will > they come out more after they feel more secure? > > Amber > > On Jul 15, 2009 7:28 AM, "pam andress" <pamandress23@... > <mailto:pamandress23%40hotmail.com>> wrote: > > It doesn't matter. Add away. lol > > Pam To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > From: arberglund@... <mailto:arberglund%40gmail.com> > <arberglund%40gmail.com> > Date: Tue, 14 Jul 2009 20:48:46 -0800 > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] In case Pam doesn't get back to me in time. > Will > adding some of my fry ... > > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 42131	From: toddswoman496861@aim.com	Date: 7/16/2009
Subject: Re: Another question about feeding green veggies

Probably because most people don't like Brussels sprouts [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 42132	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 7/16/2009
Subject: Re: Another question about feeding green veggies

I buy 1 pound bags of frozen green peas, sliced zucchini and mix vegetables and rotate them and feed the fish veggies as one of their meals a few times a week. The only thing in the mixed veggies that the fish do not scarf down are the carrot pieces. Sometimes they won't eat them at all. I think the carrots need to be blanched/nuked longer than I'm doing it for. I buy the store brand for around 99 cents a bag and they last a LONG time for my tanks. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Gail Sent: Thursday, July 16, 2009 4:47 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Another question about feeding green veggies So, I am curious too. What kind of veggies do you all put in your tanks, besides blanched zuchini? And apparently brussel sprouts (cringe) I guess I am reaching for other veggie options here ;) ~gail

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 42133	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 7/16/2009
Subject: Re: Aquawood?

I don't know but I'll sell you some swampland that I have down here. ;-) Was it in a package of some sort or just a dried piece of wood? The Petco.com website lists driftwood but a search for "aquawood" or "aqua wood" turned up with zero results. Since you already have it in your tank, this is a little late but you should sanitize any driftwood, plants, etc., that you buy before putting them in your tank. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Shirley Reichard Sent: Thursday, July 16, 2009 4:41 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Aquawood? What is "aquawood"? Hubby brought a piece home from Petco. He said it's a "living," has good bacteria, and helps soften the water. (We've had trouble keeping the ph up in that tank.) A quick web search didn't turn up anything. It looks like driftwood to me. The plec has been sucking on it. I've never been impressed with Petco staff, so I've come here for more info about this so-called aquawood. Thanks.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 42134	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 7/16/2009
Subject: Re: Aquawood?

Most driftwood will soften the water and lower the pH of a tank. Initially, if the driftwood releases tannins, that will lower the pH quickly but as the driftwood matures in the tank, there is a LOT of microbial activity on the driftwood and all them microbes and bacteria use up a LOT of the minerals that make up the KH and GH levels so that will soften the water. Further, with the pleco gnawing on the wood and the wood slowly decaying in the tank, that will further soften the water and lower the pH. These are things that will happen in ALL tanks... some faster than others. This is why the number of PWC's and the tank maintenance schedule should be based on the bioload and ecology of a tank, not just a simple once a week, once ever two weeks, etc., type schedule. Most properly stocked tanks should get weekly tank maintenance and PWC's but a light stocked tank could go much longer and a heavily stocked tank might need 2-3 PWC's and tank maintenance a week. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of aaron102272 Sent: Thursday, July 16, 2009 5:51 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Aquawood? not sure, but I think if it softens the water it also lowers the pH at the same time, maybe again, not sure --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Shirley Reichard" <shrlycat@...> wrote: > > What is "aquawood"? Hubby brought a piece home from Petco. He said it's a "living," has good bacteria, and helps soften the water. (We've had trouble keeping the ph up in that tank.) A quick web search didn't turn up anything. It looks like driftwood to me. The plec has been sucking on it. > > I've never been impressed with Petco staff, so I've come here for more info about this so-called aquawood. Thanks. >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 42135	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 7/16/2009
Subject: Re: Another question about feeding green veggies

I'm not sure which reply you are replying to but I think most of the people posting comments against Brussels Sprouts are doing it based on their own personal dislike of the veggie. ;-) Brussels Sprouts are baby cabbages (from what I remember) and cabbage has been known to give folks gas, which is why I referenced the farting goldfish cartoon on my Blog's Joke Page. ;-) If the fish are eating it, go for it! Any fresh or frozen veggie is much better than most of the fish foods out there. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Lisa Lawless Sent: Thursday, July 16, 2009 6:19 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Another question about feeding green veggies Okay, maybe I'm having a blonde moment here...but why would putting Brussels in be bad? They were boiled, and they're green... I'm trying to provide a green veg component to my catfish's diet here. Aside from the generic commercial formulations. So I've tried the green bean, which was ...ho hum, then i tried the broccoli floret, and that was popular, and now I'm trying half of a Brussels sprout. And unless it's gonna put their life in any immidiate danger. I've got to try to know if they'll like them right?   Lisa

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 42136	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 7/16/2009
Subject: Re: Good thing I don't have 500 laying around in spare cash.

That's a GOOD price. Soooo... are you gonna get it? I think it will fit in the bedroom if y'all get a twin size bed. ;-) Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Amber Berglund Sent: Thursday, July 16, 2009 8:24 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Good thing I don't have 500 laying around in spare cash. There's someone in town selling their 500 gallon aquarium for 500 bucks OBO, good thing hubby hasn't seen the ad he may have burned the paper before I got to read it, LOL. Amber

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 42137	From: pam andress	Date: 7/16/2009
Subject: Re: In case Pam doesn't get back to me in time.

Do you have anything they can get under? wood? decorations??? They will get under things and multiply. Pam To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com From: arberglund@... Date: Thu, 16 Jul 2009 13:25:57 -0800 Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] In case Pam doesn't get back to me in time. These were about 3/4 of an inch maybe a little smaller, so decent size. I still see them after dark, but not during the day. I have it in my 55 gallon community tank, with young (small) platies, my 8 purple passion danio's, and 5 guppy's, oh and the 6 cory's. And of course all the snails ;) LOL And the tiny pleco's. I'd say out of all that list the ones most likely to try eating them are the danio's and guppy's. Hopefully enough survive and reproduce fast ;) LOL I may have to get more from Pam later ;) Amber Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > > > Often, when Cherry Shrimp are moved into a new home, they'll molt > right away > so that is likely why you are not seeing them. Hopefully your fish haven't > decided to have a shrimp cocktail. What fish do you have in the tank with > the Cherry Shrimp? I don't know if they are ever really secure except with > the smallest of fish and/or herbivorous fish. Especially baby shrimp. They > are so tiny. Even adult Cherry Shrimp barely reach 3/4". > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right > side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On > Behalf Of Amber Berglund > Sent: Thursday, July 16, 2009 1:04 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Subject: Re: RE: [AquaticLife] In case Pam doesn't get back to me in time. > > Only managed to catch 2 young platies go figure I think all 4 are > female too > lol. And the plecos all look great pooping and eating like crazy. Lost > a few > smaller snails but you sent tons lol. I rarely see the cherry shrimp will > they come out more after they feel more secure? > > Amber > > On Jul 15, 2009 7:28 AM, "pam andress" <pamandress23@... > <mailto:pamandress23%40hotmail.com>> wrote: > > It doesn't matter. Add away. lol > > Pam To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > From: arberglund@... <mailto:arberglund%40gmail.com> > <arberglund%40gmail.com> > Date: Tue, 14 Jul 2009 20:48:46 -0800 > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] In case Pam doesn't get back to me in time. > Will > adding some of my fry ... > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 42138	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 7/16/2009
Subject: Re: In case Pam doesn't get back to me in time.

Yes, I have some java moss covered slate that's stood up against each other for a cave, lots and lots of plants, but I have a few decorations to hide under. I found at least 3 when I was shifting things this evening planting a few more plants. There was one really big one and a few smaller ones that weren't as dark of a red, and I think I saw one other scurry away when I shifted a decoration a few inches over. I haven't seen the baby pleco's since I added them to the tank, I'm assuming that's normal since they're so young... I won't worry unless I don't see them for 4 months ;) LOL. Amber pam andress wrote: > > > > Do you have anything they can get under? wood? decorations??? They > will get under things and multiply. > > Pam > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > From: arberglund@... <mailto:arberglund%40gmail.com> > Date: Thu, 16 Jul 2009 13:25:57 -0800 > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] In case Pam doesn't get back to me in time. > > These were about 3/4 of an inch maybe a little smaller, so decent size. > I still see them after dark, but not during the day. I have it in my 55 > gallon community tank, with young (small) platies, my 8 purple passion > danio's, and 5 guppy's, oh and the 6 cory's. And of course all the > snails ;) LOL And the tiny pleco's. I'd say out of all that list the > ones most likely to try eating them are the danio's and guppy's. > Hopefully enough survive and reproduce fast ;) LOL > I may have to get more from Pam later ;) > > Amber > > Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > > > > > > Often, when Cherry Shrimp are moved into a new home, they'll molt > > right away > > so that is likely why you are not seeing them. Hopefully your fish > haven't > > decided to have a shrimp cocktail. What fish do you have in the tank > with > > the Cherry Shrimp? I don't know if they are ever really secure > except with > > the smallest of fish and/or herbivorous fish. Especially baby > shrimp. They > > are so tiny. Even adult Cherry Shrimp barely reach 3/4". > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>> > > (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right > > side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, > Month) > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On > > Behalf Of Amber Berglund > > Sent: Thursday, July 16, 2009 1:04 PM > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > Subject: Re: RE: [AquaticLife] In case Pam doesn't get back to me in > time. > > > > Only managed to catch 2 young platies go figure I think all 4 are > > female too > > lol. And the plecos all look great pooping and eating like crazy. Lost > > a few > > smaller snails but you sent tons lol. I rarely see the cherry shrimp > will > > they come out more after they feel more secure? > > > > Amber > > > > On Jul 15, 2009 7:28 AM, "pam andress" <pamandress23@... > <mailto:pamandress23%40hotmail.com> > > <mailto:pamandress23%40hotmail.com>> wrote: > > > > It doesn't matter. Add away. lol > > > > Pam To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > From: arberglund@... <mailto:arberglund%40gmail.com> > <mailto:arberglund%40gmail.com> > > <arberglund%40gmail.com> > > Date: Tue, 14 Jul 2009 20:48:46 -0800 > > > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] In case Pam doesn't get back to me in time. > > Will > > adding some of my fry ... > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 42139	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 7/16/2009
Subject: Re: Good thing I don't have 500 laying around in spare cash.

LOL, and that's the first thing I thought Lenny! ROFL, too bad the hubby would probably try to choke me ;) Maybe we can move the 42 inch tv ;) LOL Amber Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > > > That's a GOOD price. Soooo... are you gonna get it? I think it will fit in > the bedroom if y'all get a twin size bed. ;-) > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right > side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) > > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On > Behalf Of Amber Berglund > Sent: Thursday, July 16, 2009 8:24 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Subject: [AquaticLife] Good thing I don't have 500 laying around in spare > cash. > > There's someone in town selling their 500 gallon aquarium for 500 > bucks OBO, > good thing hubby hasn't seen the ad he may have burned the paper before I > got to read it, LOL. > > Amber > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 42140	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 7/16/2009
Subject: Re: In case Pam doesn't get back to me in time.

Have you seen any carrying eggs? They carry the eggs externally clutched by their legs under their tail. You'll see their little legs juggling the eggs around to keep all of the eggs exposed to oxygenated water on a regular basis. I have a few females carrying eggs almost all the time and then I'll see the little 1mm sized shrimp scurrying around when they hatch. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Amber Berglund Sent: Thursday, July 16, 2009 11:15 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] In case Pam doesn't get back to me in time. Yes, I have some java moss covered slate that's stood up against each other for a cave, lots and lots of plants, but I have a few decorations to hide under. I found at least 3 when I was shifting things this evening planting a few more plants. There was one really big one and a few smaller ones that weren't as dark of a red, and I think I saw one other scurry away when I shifted a decoration a few inches over. I haven't seen the baby pleco's since I added them to the tank, I'm assuming that's normal since they're so young... I won't worry unless I don't see them for 4 months ;) LOL. Amber pam andress wrote: > > > > Do you have anything they can get under? wood? decorations??? They > will get under things and multiply. > > Pam > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > From: arberglund@... <mailto:arberglund%40gmail.com> > Date: Thu, 16 Jul 2009 13:25:57 -0800 > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] In case Pam doesn't get back to me in time. > > These were about 3/4 of an inch maybe a little smaller, so decent size. > I still see them after dark, but not during the day. I have it in my > 55 gallon community tank, with young (small) platies, my 8 purple > passion danio's, and 5 guppy's, oh and the 6 cory's. And of course all > the snails ;) LOL And the tiny pleco's. I'd say out of all that list > the ones most likely to try eating them are the danio's and guppy's. > Hopefully enough survive and reproduce fast ;) LOL I may have to get > more from Pam later ;) > > Amber > > Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > > > > > > Often, when Cherry Shrimp are moved into a new home, they'll molt > > right away so that is likely why you are not seeing them. Hopefully > > your fish > haven't > > decided to have a shrimp cocktail. What fish do you have in the tank > with > > the Cherry Shrimp? I don't know if they are ever really secure > except with > > the smallest of fish and/or herbivorous fish. Especially baby > shrimp. They > > are so tiny. Even adult Cherry Shrimp barely reach 3/4". > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>> > > (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the > > right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by > > Year, > Month) > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On Behalf Of Amber Berglund > > Sent: Thursday, July 16, 2009 1:04 PM > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > Subject: Re: RE: [AquaticLife] In case Pam doesn't get back to me in > time. > > > > Only managed to catch 2 young platies go figure I think all 4 are > > female too lol. And the plecos all look great pooping and eating > > like crazy. Lost a few smaller snails but you sent tons lol. I > > rarely see the cherry shrimp > will > > they come out more after they feel more secure? > > > > Amber > > > > On Jul 15, 2009 7:28 AM, "pam andress" <pamandress23@... > <mailto:pamandress23%40hotmail.com> > > <mailto:pamandress23%40hotmail.com>> wrote: > > > > It doesn't matter. Add away. lol > > > > Pam To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > From: arberglund@... <mailto:arberglund%40gmail.com> > <mailto:arberglund%40gmail.com> > > <arberglund%40gmail.com> > > Date: Tue, 14 Jul 2009 20:48:46 -0800 > > > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] In case Pam doesn't get back to me in time. > > Will > > adding some of my fry ...

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 42141	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 7/16/2009
Subject: Re: In case Pam doesn't get back to me in time.

Not yet, but they're pretty shy so far... Perhaps they'll get more used to the tank soon, it's rather bright in there ;) LOL. I'm not sure what kind of lighting Pam had on her shrimp tank. I know what normal sized shrimp with eggs look like so I assume it'll look similar ;) I live in Alaska y'know, hehe. Amber Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > > > Have you seen any carrying eggs? They carry the eggs externally > clutched by > their legs under their tail. You'll see their little legs juggling the > eggs > around to keep all of the eggs exposed to oxygenated water on a regular > basis. I have a few females carrying eggs almost all the time and then > I'll > see the little 1mm sized shrimp scurrying around when they hatch. > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right > side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) > > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On > Behalf Of Amber Berglund > Sent: Thursday, July 16, 2009 11:15 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] In case Pam doesn't get back to me in time. > > Yes, I have some java moss covered slate that's stood up against each > other > for a cave, lots and lots of plants, but I have a few decorations to hide > under. I found at least 3 when I was shifting things this evening > planting a > few more plants. There was one really big one and a few smaller ones that > weren't as dark of a red, and I think I saw one other scurry away when I > shifted a decoration a few inches over. > I haven't seen the baby pleco's since I added them to the tank, I'm > assuming > that's normal since they're so young... I won't worry unless I don't see > them for 4 months ;) LOL. > > Amber > > pam andress wrote: > > > > > > > > Do you have anything they can get under? wood? decorations??? They > > will get under things and multiply. > > > > Pam > > > > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > From: arberglund@... <mailto:arberglund%40gmail.com> > <mailto:arberglund%40gmail.com> > > Date: Thu, 16 Jul 2009 13:25:57 -0800 > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] In case Pam doesn't get back to me in time. > > > > These were about 3/4 of an inch maybe a little smaller, so decent size. > > I still see them after dark, but not during the day. I have it in my > > 55 gallon community tank, with young (small) platies, my 8 purple > > passion danio's, and 5 guppy's, oh and the 6 cory's. And of course all > > the snails ;) LOL And the tiny pleco's. I'd say out of all that list > > the ones most likely to try eating them are the danio's and guppy's. > > Hopefully enough survive and reproduce fast ;) LOL I may have to get > > more from Pam later ;) > > > > Amber > > > > Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > > > > > > > > > Often, when Cherry Shrimp are moved into a new home, they'll molt > > > right away so that is likely why you are not seeing them. Hopefully > > > your fish > > haven't > > > decided to have a shrimp cocktail. What fish do you have in the tank > > with > > > the Cherry Shrimp? I don't know if they are ever really secure > > except with > > > the smallest of fish and/or herbivorous fish. Especially baby > > shrimp. They > > > are so tiny. Even adult Cherry Shrimp barely reach 3/4". > > > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>>> > > > (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the > > > right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by > > > Year, > > Month) > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On Behalf Of Amber Berglund > > > Sent: Thursday, July 16, 2009 1:04 PM > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > Subject: Re: RE: [AquaticLife] In case Pam doesn't get back to me in > > time. > > > > > > Only managed to catch 2 young platies go figure I think all 4 are > > > female too lol. And the plecos all look great pooping and eating > > > like crazy. Lost a few smaller snails but you sent tons lol. I > > > rarely see the cherry shrimp > > will > > > they come out more after they feel more secure? > > > > > > Amber > > > > > > On Jul 15, 2009 7:28 AM, "pam andress" <pamandress23@... > <mailto:pamandress23%40hotmail.com> > > <mailto:pamandress23%40hotmail.com> > > > <mailto:pamandress23%40hotmail.com>> wrote: > > > > > > It doesn't matter. Add away. lol > > > > > > Pam To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > From: arberglund@... <mailto:arberglund%40gmail.com> > <mailto:arberglund%40gmail.com> > > <mailto:arberglund%40gmail.com> > > > <arberglund%40gmail.com> > > > Date: Tue, 14 Jul 2009 20:48:46 -0800 > > > > > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] In case Pam doesn't get back to me in time. > > > Will > > > adding some of my fry ... > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 42142	From: Lisa	Date: 7/16/2009
Subject: Re: Another question about feeding green veggies

Oh yeah lol. I couldn't watch the add, because my dad had those type of websites blocked at work. But yeah i can imagine the imagery. lol Lol

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 42143	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 7/16/2009
Subject: Re: Another question about feeding green veggies

Your dad has my blog blocked? HOW DARE HE!!! lol My Fish Jokes page is coming along nicely. I have a couple of cartoons, a bunch of kids jokes and one very funny video at the bottom of the page. http://goldlenny.blogspot.com/2009/02/fish-jokes-some-may-be-pg-or-r-rated.h tml Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Lisa Sent: Thursday, July 16, 2009 11:52 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Another question about feeding green veggies Oh yeah lol. I couldn't watch the add, because my dad had those type of websites blocked at work. But yeah i can imagine the imagery. lol Lol

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 42144	From: aaron_loves_beautiful_blondes	Date: 7/17/2009
Subject: Natalie (was ~ Re: Newbie here)

wow, talk about a coincidence, it just so happens I really like beautiful blondes (and brunettes, and red heads, ok so it doesn't really matter the hair color so much) ;) 2nd Alligator, now that is interesting, if you have a nice picture available (of the Alligator, either one) I'd like to put it on the groups home page, not something I see everyday, first I can rember hearing of actually. There was a Cayman (not the Porsche)a while back at the LFS here in Pleasanton CA, that the Government sized from somebody's house and it was living at the store for probably a few years as Evidence for the case I think, maybe Paul or Mike remembers it too. Aaron (not the Husband) --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Natalie Beacom" <beautiful_blonde_loves_aaron@...> wrote: > > I did not know that lol Aaron is my husband's name lol.. Weird. > > How I actually got the name is I was dating a guy by the name of Aaron at the time (not my husband) when I was in 10th grade I'm 26 now. I made the name up then. I kept it because I didn't want to make another name and never dreamed that I'd married another guy named Aaron lol. Now this it's weird. > > Oh NOW I know why he excepted my invite to this group wink wink.. lmao J/K > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, harry perry <harryfisherman@> wrote: > > > > I find your address more interesting than your alligator. beautiful blonde loves aaron. > > > > Aaron is the name of the group owner, but then you knew that. > > > > Harry > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 42145	From: Byron	Date: 7/17/2009
Subject: Re: re; Plant food

In my view this is definitely a case where fertilizer is needed. Amazon swords are heavy feeders, and primarily from the roots although some nutrients are taken in via the leaves. A root tab inserted in the substrate next to the roots would be the best, but as th4e plant is growing from bogwood I would resort to liquid fertilizer. I have this condition if I don't use liquid fertilizer twice a week; I also have tabs next to the largest swords. While this may be the result of iron deficiency, there are other essential nutrients that can cause it when they are not in sufficient quantity. Seachem's Flourish Comprehensive is excellent, and I've previously had good success with the Kent Freshwater Plant Supplement. Just make sure it is a balanced complete fertilizer, as I explained in an earlier post. And yes, remove this leaf; once a leaf on an Echinodorus begins to yellow, I have not had it do anything except die (the leaf I mean, not the plant). --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, Lisa Lawless <lisa_lawless2004@...> wrote: > > Hey guys. > The plants i have a dwarf anubia, and a rather impressive amazon sword, both on separate pieces of bogwood. >   > The amazon sword, had one leaf, that is starting to look brown and 'crispy' down it's side. > This is what prompted the thought that maybe it needs to be feed.  > Should i remove the offending leaf? >   > Lisa > > > >   > > > ____________________________________________________________________________________ > Access Yahoo!7 Mail on your mobile. Anytime. Anywhere. > Show me how: http://au.mobile.yahoo.com/mail > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 42146	From: Natalie Beacom	Date: 7/17/2009
Subject: Natalie (was ~ Re: Newbie here)

I'm uploading a pic right now. you want a full body pic or a really nice head shot? I'll put both up lol. --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "aaron_loves_beautiful_blondes" <aaron102272@...> wrote: > > wow, talk about a coincidence, it just so happens I really like beautiful blondes (and brunettes, and red heads, ok so it doesn't really matter the hair color so much) > > ;) > > 2nd Alligator, now that is interesting, if you have a nice picture available (of the Alligator, either one) I'd like to put it on the groups home page, not something I see everyday, first I can rember hearing of actually. > > There was a Cayman (not the Porsche)a while back at the LFS here in Pleasanton CA, that the Government sized from somebody's house and it was living at the store for probably a few years as Evidence for the case I think, maybe Paul or Mike remembers it too. > > > Aaron (not the Husband) > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Natalie Beacom" <beautiful_blonde_loves_aaron@> wrote: > > > > I did not know that lol Aaron is my husband's name lol.. Weird. > > > > How I actually got the name is I was dating a guy by the name of Aaron at the time (not my husband) when I was in 10th grade I'm 26 now. I made the name up then. I kept it because I didn't want to make another name and never dreamed that I'd married another guy named Aaron lol. Now this it's weird. > > > > Oh NOW I know why he excepted my invite to this group wink wink.. lmao J/K > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, harry perry <harryfisherman@> wrote: > > > > > > I find your address more interesting than your alligator. beautiful blonde loves aaron. > > > > > > Aaron is the name of the group owner, but then you knew that. > > > > > > Harry > > > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 42147	From: biG poppa	Date: 7/17/2009
Subject: Re: Natalie (was ~ Re: Newbie here)

yeap that a gator seen them here from 6ft to 18ft long there huge --- On Fri, 7/17/09, aaron_loves_beautiful_blondes <aaron102272@...> wrote: From: aaron_loves_beautiful_blondes <aaron102272@...> Subject: [AquaticLife] Natalie (was ~ Re: Newbie here) To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Date: Friday, July 17, 2009, 4:15 AM   wow, talk about a coincidence, it just so happens I really like beautiful blondes (and brunettes, and red heads, ok so it doesn't really matter the hair color so much) ;) 2nd Alligator, now that is interesting, if you have a nice picture available (of the Alligator, either one) I'd like to put it on the groups home page, not something I see everyday, first I can rember hearing of actually. There was a Cayman (not the Porsche)a while back at the LFS here in Pleasanton CA, that the Government sized from somebody's house and it was living at the store for probably a few years as Evidence for the case I think, maybe Paul or Mike remembers it too. Aaron (not the Husband) --- In AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com, "Natalie Beacom" <beautiful_blonde_ loves_aaron@ ...> wrote: > > I did not know that lol Aaron is my husband's name lol.. Weird. > > How I actually got the name is I was dating a guy by the name of Aaron at the time (not my husband) when I was in 10th grade I'm 26 now. I made the name up then. I kept it because I didn't want to make another name and never dreamed that I'd married another guy named Aaron lol. Now this it's weird. > > Oh NOW I know why he excepted my invite to this group wink wink.. lmao J/K > > --- In AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com, harry perry <harryfisherman@ > wrote: > > > > I find your address more interesting than your alligator. beautiful blonde loves aaron. > > > > Aaron is the name of the group owner, but then you knew that. > > > > Harry > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 42148	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 7/17/2009
Subject: Re: Natalie (was ~ Re: Newbie here)

All this gator talk is making me hungry for some Alligator Sauce Piquante! http://www.emerils.com/recipe/3570/Alligator-Sauce-Piquante http://www.coonass.com/html/alligator_sauce_piquante_-_a_c.html http://www.gumbopages.com/food/seafood/piquante.html On a side note... I didn't even know there was a Coonass.com until I Googled for the recipe. LOL Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of biG poppa Sent: Friday, July 17, 2009 12:54 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Natalie (was ~ Re: Newbie here) yeap that a gator seen them here from 6ft to 18ft long there huge --- On Fri, 7/17/09, aaron_loves_beautiful_blondes <aaron102272@...> wrote: From: aaron_loves_beautiful_blondes <aaron102272@...> Subject: [AquaticLife] Natalie (was ~ Re: Newbie here) To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Date: Friday, July 17, 2009, 4:15 AM   wow, talk about a coincidence, it just so happens I really like beautiful blondes (and brunettes, and red heads, ok so it doesn't really matter the hair color so much) ;) 2nd Alligator, now that is interesting, if you have a nice picture available (of the Alligator, either one) I'd like to put it on the groups home page, not something I see everyday, first I can rember hearing of actually. There was a Cayman (not the Porsche)a while back at the LFS here in Pleasanton CA, that the Government sized from somebody's house and it was living at the store for probably a few years as Evidence for the case I think, maybe Paul or Mike remembers it too. Aaron (not the Husband) --- In AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com, "Natalie Beacom" <beautiful_blonde_ loves_aaron@ ...> wrote: > > I did not know that lol Aaron is my husband's name lol.. Weird. > > How I actually got the name is I was dating a guy by the name of Aaron at the time (not my husband) when I was in 10th grade I'm 26 now. I made the name up then. I kept it because I didn't want to make another name and never dreamed that I'd married another guy named Aaron lol. Now this it's weird. > > Oh NOW I know why he excepted my invite to this group wink wink.. lmao > J/K > > --- In AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com, harry perry <harryfisherman@ > wrote: > > > > I find your address more interesting than your alligator. beautiful blonde loves aaron. > > > > Aaron is the name of the group owner, but then you knew that. > > > > Harry > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 42149	From: pam andress	Date: 7/17/2009
Subject: Re: In case Pam doesn't get back to me in time.

That sounds about right. Also one of those shrimp I sent had eggs, so she should be having babies soon. They are very tiny when they are born. Pam To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com From: arberglund@... Date: Thu, 16 Jul 2009 20:15:05 -0800 Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] In case Pam doesn't get back to me in time. Yes, I have some java moss covered slate that's stood up against each other for a cave, lots and lots of plants, but I have a few decorations to hide under. I found at least 3 when I was shifting things this evening planting a few more plants. There was one really big one and a few smaller ones that weren't as dark of a red, and I think I saw one other scurry away when I shifted a decoration a few inches over. I haven't seen the baby pleco's since I added them to the tank, I'm assuming that's normal since they're so young... I won't worry unless I don't see them for 4 months ;) LOL. Amber pam andress wrote: > > > > Do you have anything they can get under? wood? decorations??? They > will get under things and multiply. > > Pam > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > From: arberglund@... <mailto:arberglund%40gmail.com> > Date: Thu, 16 Jul 2009 13:25:57 -0800 > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] In case Pam doesn't get back to me in time. > > These were about 3/4 of an inch maybe a little smaller, so decent size. > I still see them after dark, but not during the day. I have it in my 55 > gallon community tank, with young (small) platies, my 8 purple passion > danio's, and 5 guppy's, oh and the 6 cory's. And of course all the > snails ;) LOL And the tiny pleco's. I'd say out of all that list the > ones most likely to try eating them are the danio's and guppy's. > Hopefully enough survive and reproduce fast ;) LOL > I may have to get more from Pam later ;) > > Amber > > Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > > > > > > Often, when Cherry Shrimp are moved into a new home, they'll molt > > right away > > so that is likely why you are not seeing them. Hopefully your fish > haven't > > decided to have a shrimp cocktail. What fish do you have in the tank > with > > the Cherry Shrimp? I don't know if they are ever really secure > except with > > the smallest of fish and/or herbivorous fish. Especially baby > shrimp. They > > are so tiny. Even adult Cherry Shrimp barely reach 3/4". > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>> > > (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right > > side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, > Month) > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On > > Behalf Of Amber Berglund > > Sent: Thursday, July 16, 2009 1:04 PM > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > Subject: Re: RE: [AquaticLife] In case Pam doesn't get back to me in > time. > > > > Only managed to catch 2 young platies go figure I think all 4 are > > female too > > lol. And the plecos all look great pooping and eating like crazy. Lost > > a few > > smaller snails but you sent tons lol. I rarely see the cherry shrimp > will > > they come out more after they feel more secure? > > > > Amber > > > > On Jul 15, 2009 7:28 AM, "pam andress" <pamandress23@... > <mailto:pamandress23%40hotmail.com> > > <mailto:pamandress23%40hotmail.com>> wrote: > > > > It doesn't matter. Add away. lol > > > > Pam To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > From: arberglund@... <mailto:arberglund%40gmail.com> > <mailto:arberglund%40gmail.com> > > <arberglund%40gmail.com> > > Date: Tue, 14 Jul 2009 20:48:46 -0800 > > > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] In case Pam doesn't get back to me in time. > > Will > > adding some of my fry ... > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 42150	From: biG poppa	Date: 7/17/2009
Subject: Re: Natalie (was ~ Re: Newbie here)

thats some  good eating there Lenny --- On Fri, 7/17/09, Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@...> wrote: From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@...> Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Natalie (was ~ Re: Newbie here) To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Date: Friday, July 17, 2009, 2:11 PM   All this gator talk is making me hungry for some Alligator Sauce Piquante! http://www.emerils. com/recipe/ 3570/Alligator- Sauce-Piquante http://www.coonass. com/html/ alligator_ sauce_piquante_ -_a_c.html http://www.gumbopag es.com/food/ seafood/piquante .html On a side note... I didn't even know there was a Coonass.com until I Googled for the recipe. LOL Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com [mailto:AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com] On Behalf Of biG poppa Sent: Friday, July 17, 2009 12:54 PM To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Natalie (was ~ Re: Newbie here) yeap that a gator seen them here from 6ft to 18ft long there huge --- On Fri, 7/17/09, aaron_loves_ beautiful_ blondes <aaron102272@ yahoo.com> wrote: From: aaron_loves_ beautiful_ blondes <aaron102272@ yahoo.com> Subject: [AquaticLife] Natalie (was ~ Re: Newbie here) To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com Date: Friday, July 17, 2009, 4:15 AM   wow, talk about a coincidence, it just so happens I really like beautiful blondes (and brunettes, and red heads, ok so it doesn't really matter the hair color so much) ;) 2nd Alligator, now that is interesting, if you have a nice picture available (of the Alligator, either one) I'd like to put it on the groups home page, not something I see everyday, first I can rember hearing of actually. There was a Cayman (not the Porsche)a while back at the LFS here in Pleasanton CA, that the Government sized from somebody's house and it was living at the store for probably a few years as Evidence for the case I think, maybe Paul or Mike remembers it too. Aaron (not the Husband) --- In AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com, "Natalie Beacom" <beautiful_blonde_ loves_aaron@ ...> wrote: > > I did not know that lol Aaron is my husband's name lol.. Weird. > > How I actually got the name is I was dating a guy by the name of Aaron at the time (not my husband) when I was in 10th grade I'm 26 now. I made the name up then. I kept it because I didn't want to make another name and never dreamed that I'd married another guy named Aaron lol. Now this it's weird. > > Oh NOW I know why he excepted my invite to this group wink wink.. lmao > J/K > > --- In AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com, harry perry <harryfisherman@ > wrote: > > > > I find your address more interesting than your alligator. beautiful blonde loves aaron. > > > > Aaron is the name of the group owner, but then you knew that. > > > > Harry > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 42151	From: biG poppa	Date: 7/17/2009
Subject: Re: Good thing I don't have 500 laying around in spare cash.

maybe pam has some guppy's females to even the numbers...im having issues with green algee in my 55g i think its the lights... --- On Thu, 7/16/09, Amber Berglund <arberglund@...> wrote: From: Amber Berglund <arberglund@...> Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Good thing I don't have 500 laying around in spare cash. To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Date: Thursday, July 16, 2009, 9:54 PM   they're all doing great... Now I just need more female guppy's poor girls are getting picked on, I think I lost one awhile back and forgot when i bought more males, LOL. My 2 girls are outnumbered and I know they need more girls in there so the boys won't pick on them so much. They're also about ready to have babies any day now. Amber biG poppa wrote: > > > lmao....don' t get in trouble their spamber....so how are the new > fishes.... > > --- On Thu, 7/16/09, Amber Berglund <arberglund@gmail. com > <mailto:arberglund% 40gmail.com> > wrote: > > From: Amber Berglund <arberglund@gmail. com > <mailto:arberglund% 40gmail.com> > > Subject: [AquaticLife] Good thing I don't have 500 laying around in > spare cash. > To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com <mailto:AquaticLife %40yahoogroups. com> > Date: Thursday, July 16, 2009, 9:24 PM > > > > There's someone in town selling their 500 gallon aquarium for 500 bucks > > OBO, good thing hubby hasn't seen the ad he may have burned the paper > > before I got to read it, LOL. > > Amber > > > > > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 42152	From: Gwydryn@aol.com	Date: 7/17/2009
Subject: Re: Natalie (was ~ Re: Newbie here)

In a message dated 7/17/2009 1:13:19 P.M. Central Daylight Time, GoldLenny@... writes: All this gator talk is making me hungry for some Alligator Sauce Piquante Ah, Lenny! thanks a lot! I always wanted crawfish etouffe recipe, and the gator one ....hmmmmmmmmmmmmm! They do sell gator meat in my neck of the woods! BWAHAHAHA! Enid "Life is not about waiting for the storms to pass...it's about learning how to dance in the rain." **************A Good Credit Score is 700 or Above. See yours in just 2 easy steps! (http://pr.atwola.com/promoclk/100126575x1221823307x1201398715/aol?redir=http://www.freecreditreport.com/pm/default.aspx?sc=668072&hmpgID=62&bcd= JulystepsfooterNO62) [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 42153	From: aaron_loves_beautiful_blondes	Date: 7/17/2009
Subject: Alligator (was ~ Re: Natalie/Newbie here)

Ok, so now I have updated the Group description to include Alligators, never thought that would happen. I added an edited version of the "Full Body Shot" as the Group Picture (this is a family friendly site), it was a bit disturbing considering there was only 1/2 a turtle in with the gator, hmm didn't know if turtles are part of Alligators natural diet or if turtle is faster than camera and swam outta frame (I thought turtles are supposed to be slow tho, however I hope those turtles are faster than that gator - especially if they are lower in the food chain) Oh, if it's a girl gator can we call her Alli? It be nice to have a mascot for the group. --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Natalie Beacom" <beautiful_blonde_loves_aaron@...> wrote: > > I'm uploading a pic right now. you want a full body pic or a really nice head shot? I'll put both up lol. > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "aaron_loves_beautiful_blondes" <aaron102272@> wrote: > > > > wow, talk about a coincidence, it just so happens I really like beautiful blondes (and brunettes, and red heads, ok so it doesn't really matter the hair color so much) > > > > ;^) > > > > 2nd Alligator, now that is interesting, if you have a nice picture available (of the Alligator, either one) I'd like to put it on the groups home page, not something I see everyday, first I can rember hearing of actually.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 42154	From: Natalie Beacom	Date: 7/17/2009
Subject: Alligator

Be leave it or not the alligator sits on top of the turtles back and suns. I have pics some where of him doing this. --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "aaron_loves_beautiful_blondes" <aaron102272@...> wrote: > > Ok, so now I have updated the Group description to include Alligators, never thought that would happen. > > I added an edited version of the "Full Body Shot" as the Group Picture (this is a family friendly site), it was a bit disturbing considering there was only 1/2 a turtle in with the gator, hmm didn't know if turtles are part of Alligators natural diet or if turtle is faster than camera and swam outta frame (I thought turtles are supposed to be slow tho, however I hope those turtles are faster than that gator - especially if they are lower in the food chain) > > Oh, if it's a girl gator can we call her Alli? It be nice to have a mascot for the group. > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 42155	From: Natalie Beacom	Date: 7/17/2009
Subject: Alligator

We have 6 Aquatic turtles in there with HIM. And his name is Hiss-ton. He hasn't bothered the turtles yet. This is our 2nd alligator that we came across. The last alligator and my husband turtle spaz was best friends. When that alligator got to big for us it's name was (Hissed-Off) Spaz was depressed for months wouldn't eat or anything. Then we got Hiss-ton and spaz is back to his regular happy self now.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 42156	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 7/17/2009
Subject: Re: Alligator

I'd want to name them "Wally Gator"... he's a swingin' alligator in the swamp ;) LOL Amber Natalie Beacom wrote: > > > We have 6 Aquatic turtles in there with HIM. And his name is Hiss-ton. > He hasn't bothered the turtles yet. This is our 2nd alligator that we > came across. The last alligator and my husband turtle spaz was best > friends. When that alligator got to big for us it's name was > (Hissed-Off) Spaz was depressed for months wouldn't eat or anything. > Then we got Hiss-ton and spaz is back to his regular happy self now. > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 42157	From: biG poppa	Date: 7/17/2009
Subject: Re: Alligator

give him a couple of moths and lets see if they don't become snacks...lol --- On Fri, 7/17/09, Natalie Beacom <beautiful_blonde_loves_aaron@...> wrote: From: Natalie Beacom <beautiful_blonde_loves_aaron@...> Subject: [AquaticLife] Alligator To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Date: Friday, July 17, 2009, 4:01 PM   We have 6 Aquatic turtles in there with HIM. And his name is Hiss-ton. He hasn't bothered the turtles yet. This is our 2nd alligator that we came across. The last alligator and my husband turtle spaz was best friends. When that alligator got to big for us it's name was (Hissed-Off) Spaz was depressed for months wouldn't eat or anything. Then we got Hiss-ton and spaz is back to his regular happy self now. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 42158	From: Gail	Date: 7/17/2009
Subject: Re: Good thing I don't have 500 laying around in spare cash.

My husband would burn the ad, also. He doesn't understand my fish craze! Anyone else here have a spouse or significant-other who complains about all the fishtanks? Just curious. My husband complains. He says it takes me away from cleaning the house (a real male pig comment, huh?). thanks, Gail

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 42159	From: Natalie Beacom	Date: 7/17/2009
Subject: Re: Alligator

Last alligator (Hissed-Off) was 4 years old 5 foot and about 100 lbs if more and him and spaz was in the same enclosure with each other. Spaz would then sit on him and sun lol --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, biG poppa <greychildren@...> wrote: > > give him a couple of moths and lets see if they don't become snacks...lol > > --- On Fri, 7/17/09, Natalie Beacom <beautiful_blonde_loves_aaron@...> wrote: > > From: Natalie Beacom <beautiful_blonde_loves_aaron@...> > Subject: [AquaticLife] Alligator > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Date: Friday, July 17, 2009, 4:01 PM > > > > > > >   > > > > > > We have 6 Aquatic turtles in there with HIM. And his name is Hiss-ton. He hasn't bothered the turtles yet. This is our 2nd alligator that we came across. The last alligator and my husband turtle spaz was best friends. When that alligator got to big for us it's name was (Hissed-Off) Spaz was depressed for months wouldn't eat or anything. Then we got Hiss-ton and spaz is back to his regular happy self now. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 42160	From: biG poppa	Date: 7/17/2009
Subject: Re: Good thing I don't have 500 laying around in spare cash.

not a male pig here my wife complains about my 3 setups the funny part is she introduce me to the hobby and gave me my first tank..her complain is that i have more time for my tanks that for her........ So your not alone there kiddo --- On Fri, 7/17/09, Gail <clandestine662002@...> wrote: From: Gail <clandestine662002@...> Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Good thing I don't have 500 laying around in spare cash. To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Date: Friday, July 17, 2009, 5:05 PM   My husband would burn the ad, also. He doesn't understand my fish craze! Anyone else here have a spouse or significant- other who complains about all the fishtanks? Just curious. My husband complains. He says it takes me away from cleaning the house (a real male pig comment, huh?). thanks, Gail [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 42161	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 7/17/2009
Subject: Re: Good thing I don't have 500 laying around in spare cash.

How big is a 500 gallon tank anyways? LOL Amber Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > > > That's a GOOD price. Soooo... are you gonna get it? I think it will fit in > the bedroom if y'all get a twin size bed. ;-) > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right > side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) > > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On > Behalf Of Amber Berglund > Sent: Thursday, July 16, 2009 8:24 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Subject: [AquaticLife] Good thing I don't have 500 laying around in spare > cash. > > There's someone in town selling their 500 gallon aquarium for 500 > bucks OBO, > good thing hubby hasn't seen the ad he may have burned the paper before I > got to read it, LOL. > > Amber > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 42162	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 7/17/2009
Subject: Re: Good thing I don't have 500 laying around in spare cash.

http://www.GlassCages.com does not have a 500G listed as one of their standard sizes for Acrylic tanks but does have one for Glass tanks, called a "500 - 8 wide", which is 96" x 48" x 25" Tall and it costs $2,200.00. Under their "Commercial" links for both Glass and Acrylic, they have an Acrylic 450G at 96" x 30" x 36" Tall for $3,900.00. A "Commercial" Glass 500G at 130" x 30 1/2" x 30 1/2" for $2,400.00. So... in a word, "How big is a 500 gallon tank..."??? BIG!!!!! And at least if hubby kills you, it will double as a coffin. LOL But if you tell him to think of how snuggly it will be with both of you in a twin sized bed, he might fall for it. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Amber Berglund Sent: Friday, July 17, 2009 11:12 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Good thing I don't have 500 laying around in spare cash. How big is a 500 gallon tank anyways? LOL Amber Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > > > That's a GOOD price. Soooo... are you gonna get it? I think it will > fit in the bedroom if y'all get a twin size bed. ;-) > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> (Links to any articles referenced in > above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels > and also under Archives by Year, Month) > > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On Behalf Of Amber Berglund > Sent: Thursday, July 16, 2009 8:24 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Subject: [AquaticLife] Good thing I don't have 500 laying around in > spare cash. > > There's someone in town selling their 500 gallon aquarium for 500 > bucks OBO, good thing hubby hasn't seen the ad he may have burned the > paper before I got to read it, LOL. > > Amber

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 42163	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 7/18/2009
Subject: Re: Good thing I don't have 500 laying around in spare cash.

2,000 quarts 4,000 pints 32,000 liquid ounces Big enough to need FedEx Freight. \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Amber Berglund Sent: Saturday, July 18, 2009 12:12 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Good thing I don't have 500 laying around in spare cash. How big is a 500 gallon tank anyways? LOL Amber Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > > > That's a GOOD price. Soooo... are you gonna get it? I think it will fit in > the bedroom if y'all get a twin size bed. ;-) > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right > side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) > > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On > Behalf Of Amber Berglund > Sent: Thursday, July 16, 2009 8:24 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Subject: [AquaticLife] Good thing I don't have 500 laying around in spare > cash. > > There's someone in town selling their 500 gallon aquarium for 500 > bucks OBO, > good thing hubby hasn't seen the ad he may have burned the paper before I > got to read it, LOL. > > Amber > > ------------------------------------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the home page. Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com to receive the digest, which includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com for the No E-Mail option where you will still be able to read messages on the group and post replies. Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com to receive individual e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 42164	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 7/18/2009
Subject: Baby Cuttlefish To Be Cuddled By Fishkeepers at Tynemouth's Blue Ree

Since there has been some talk about cuttlefish, specifically, cuttlebone here in the past couple of weeks, I thought some might like to peruse this article, more on selling the exhibit than talking about the fish, but there is some description there. http://www.zandavisitor.com/newsarticle-1801-Baby_Cuttlefish_To_Be_Cuddl ed_By_Fishkeepers_at_Tynemouths_Blue_Reef_Aquarium http://tinyurl.com/noralg Mayhap, one would like to plan their summer vacation in England to visit the exhibit. \\Steve//

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 42165	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 7/18/2009
Subject: Telephoto Lens Tips For Aquarium Digital Photography « pentax opt

Here is an article for those of you who may want to take pictures of your fish, with links to other sites for more tips. I have never used a telephoto lens for taking pictures, so I cannot vouch for nor deny any success one may experience with this method, but, if you do not have a macro capability for your camera, but the reasoning appears to be sound. http://pentaxoptoe70digitalcamera.wordpress.com/2009/07/14/telephoto-lens-tips-for-aquarium-digital-photography/ http://tinyurl.com/lc5oed \\Steve//

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 42166	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 7/18/2009
Subject: Re: Good thing I don't have 500 laying around in spare cash.

Well I knew that much, I mostly wanted to know how much room it took up ;) LOL I still don't have the money anyways, but it's a VERY good deal. Wonder what it comes with. Amber Steve Szabo wrote: > > > 2,000 quarts > 4,000 pints > 32,000 liquid ounces > > Big enough to need FedEx Freight. > > \\Steve// > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On Behalf Of Amber Berglund > Sent: Saturday, July 18, 2009 12:12 AM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Good thing I don't have 500 laying around > in spare cash. > > How big is a 500 gallon tank anyways? LOL > > Amber > > Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > > > > > > That's a GOOD price. Soooo... are you gonna get it? I think it will > fit in > > the bedroom if y'all get a twin size bed. ;-) > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>> > > (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right > > side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, > Month) > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On > > Behalf Of Amber Berglund > > Sent: Thursday, July 16, 2009 8:24 PM > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > Subject: [AquaticLife] Good thing I don't have 500 laying around in > spare > > cash. > > > > There's someone in town selling their 500 gallon aquarium for 500 > > bucks OBO, > > good thing hubby hasn't seen the ad he may have burned the paper > before I > > got to read it, LOL. > > > > Amber > > > > > > ------------------------------------ > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. > ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> > PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT > important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message > MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- > <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. > > If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of unsubscribing, > you can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My > Membership" on the home page. > > Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:aquaticlife-digest%40yahoogroups.com> to receive the digest, > which includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email > > Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:aquaticlife-nomail%40yahoogroups.com> for the No E-Mail option > where you will still be able to read messages on the group and post > replies. > > Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:aquaticlife-normal%40yahoogroups.com> to receive individual > e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 42167	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 7/18/2009
Subject: What do baby cherry shrimp look like?

I have what appears to be little while things moving around in the tank, but they are so small that I can't tell what they are. For all I know they could just be some other type of natural creature ;) I have been overfeeding the tank just to make sure all the pleco's and snails get enough food, the poor cory's look like they could burst, LOL. If there's peas in the food mixture do I need to feed more peas if I'm overfeeding? ;) Amber

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 42168	From: bill 1433	Date: 7/18/2009
Subject: Re: Good thing I don't have 500 laying around in spare cash.

Hey Amber what about a few photo's?  Or maybe seek over there and take a few yourself?  There seems to be quite a bit of speculation on the list as to its actual size? I wondering if maybe a 10 foot Acrylic Job?  Time to go "under-cover" and see what you can come up with?   Bill --- On Sat, 7/18/09, Amber Berglund <arberglund@...> wrote: From: Amber Berglund <arberglund@...> Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Good thing I don't have 500 laying around in spare cash. To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Date: Saturday, July 18, 2009, 4:49 PM Well I knew that much, I mostly wanted to know how much room it took up ;) LOL I still don't have the money anyways, but it's a VERY good deal. Wonder what it comes with. Amber Steve Szabo wrote: >  > > 2,000 quarts > 4,000 pints > 32,000 liquid ounces > > Big enough to need FedEx Freight. > > \\Steve// > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On Behalf Of Amber Berglund > Sent: Saturday, July 18, 2009 12:12 AM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Good thing I don't have 500 laying around > in spare cash. > > How big is a 500 gallon tank anyways? LOL > > Amber > > Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > > > > > > That's a GOOD price. Soooo... are you gonna get it? I think it will > fit in > > the bedroom if y'all get a twin size bed. ;-) > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>> > > (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right > > side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, > Month) > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On > > Behalf Of Amber Berglund > > Sent: Thursday, July 16, 2009 8:24 PM > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > Subject: [AquaticLife] Good thing I don't have 500 laying around in > spare > > cash. > > > > There's someone in town selling their 500 gallon aquarium for 500 > > bucks OBO, > > good thing hubby hasn't seen the ad he may have burned the paper > before I > > got to read it, LOL. > > > > Amber > > > > > > ------------------------------------ > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You.. > ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> > PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT > important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message > MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- > <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. > > If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of unsubscribing, > you can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My > Membership" on the home page. > > Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:aquaticlife-digest%40yahoogroups.com> to receive the digest, > which includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email > > Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:aquaticlife-nomail%40yahoogroups.com> for the No E-Mail option > where you will still be able to read messages on the group and post > replies. > > Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:aquaticlife-normal%40yahoogroups.com> to receive individual > e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links > > ------------------------------------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the home page.  Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com to receive the digest, which includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com for the No E-Mail option where you will still be able to read messages on the group and post replies. Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com to receive individual e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 42169	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 7/18/2009
Subject: Re: Good thing I don't have 500 laying around in spare cash.

Amber, Well, if you knew that, why did you not just gather any combination of gallon, quart, pint, and/or ounce size containers and start stacking them up to determine how much room you would need for such a tank? \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Amber Berglund Sent: Saturday, July 18, 2009 4:50 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Good thing I don't have 500 laying around in spare cash. Well I knew that much, I mostly wanted to know how much room it took up ;) LOL I still don't have the money anyways, but it's a VERY good deal. Wonder what it comes with. Amber Steve Szabo wrote: > > > 2,000 quarts > 4,000 pints > 32,000 liquid ounces > > Big enough to need FedEx Freight. > > \\Steve// > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On Behalf Of Amber Berglund > Sent: Saturday, July 18, 2009 12:12 AM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Good thing I don't have 500 laying around > in spare cash. > > How big is a 500 gallon tank anyways? LOL > > Amber > > Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > > > > > > That's a GOOD price. Soooo... are you gonna get it? I think it will > fit in > > the bedroom if y'all get a twin size bed. ;-) > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>> > > (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right > > side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, > Month) > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On > > Behalf Of Amber Berglund > > Sent: Thursday, July 16, 2009 8:24 PM > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > Subject: [AquaticLife] Good thing I don't have 500 laying around in > spare > > cash. > > > > There's someone in town selling their 500 gallon aquarium for 500 > > bucks OBO, > > good thing hubby hasn't seen the ad he may have burned the paper > before I > > got to read it, LOL. > > > > Amber > > > > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 42170	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 7/18/2009
Subject: Re: What do baby cherry shrimp look like?

They are born as exact replicas of adult cherry shrimp... only smaller. As far as feeding... only you know if you are overfeeding. Peas are meant as a snack and also as a laxative... kind of like giving a friend a piece of chocolate flavored ex-lax. LOL Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Amber Berglund Sent: Saturday, July 18, 2009 4:28 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] What do baby cherry shrimp look like? I have what appears to be little while things moving around in the tank, but they are so small that I can't tell what they are. For all I know they could just be some other type of natural creature ;) I have been overfeeding the tank just to make sure all the pleco's and snails get enough food, the poor cory's look like they could burst, LOL. If there's peas in the food mixture do I need to feed more peas if I'm overfeeding? ;) Amber

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 42171	From: pam andress	Date: 7/18/2009
Subject: Re: What do baby cherry shrimp look like?

They are super tiny, so that is probably what you are seeing. Hard to see color as they are so small, so they appear white. Pam To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com From: GoldLenny@... Date: Sat, 18 Jul 2009 18:17:08 -0500 Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] What do baby cherry shrimp look like? They are born as exact replicas of adult cherry shrimp... only smaller. As far as feeding... only you know if you are overfeeding. Peas are meant as a snack and also as a laxative... kind of like giving a friend a piece of chocolate flavored ex-lax. LOL Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Amber Berglund Sent: Saturday, July 18, 2009 4:28 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] What do baby cherry shrimp look like? I have what appears to be little while things moving around in the tank, but they are so small that I can't tell what they are. For all I know they could just be some other type of natural creature ;) I have been overfeeding the tank just to make sure all the pleco's and snails get enough food, the poor cory's look like they could burst, LOL. If there's peas in the food mixture do I need to feed more peas if I'm overfeeding? ;) Amber [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 42172	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 7/18/2009
Subject: Re: What do baby cherry shrimp look like?

Thanks for all the info, and the chocolate flavored ex lax thought Lenny ;) LOL I'm hoping they are baby cherry shrimp at least. I've been seeing more of the shrimp now, they must be done molting or just more sure of their surroundings. I like watching them swim for some reason, LOL. My favorite new critters are the snails though, I like the ones that try to eat the floating algae on the floating plants and actually manage to stay up there awhile doing it, LOL. I tried getting some pictures but they didn't turn out. Nothing like seeing a largish mystery snail floating in mid-water hanging onto a bunch of duckweed and algae ;) LOL. A few of my Albino aeneus cory's have blueish bellies, is this an intestinal issue or are they eggs? They have rather full bellies too. Not all of them are this way, just a few out of the shoal of 6. Amber pam andress wrote: > > > > They are super tiny, so that is probably what you are seeing. Hard to > see color as they are so small, so they appear white. > > Pam > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > From: GoldLenny@... <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com> > Date: Sat, 18 Jul 2009 18:17:08 -0500 > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] What do baby cherry shrimp look like? > > They are born as exact replicas of adult cherry shrimp... only smaller. > > As far as feeding... only you know if you are overfeeding. Peas are meant > as a snack and also as a laxative... kind of like giving a friend a > piece of > chocolate flavored ex-lax. LOL > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right > side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On > Behalf Of Amber Berglund > Sent: Saturday, July 18, 2009 4:28 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Subject: [AquaticLife] What do baby cherry shrimp look like? > > I have what appears to be little while things moving around in the > tank, but > they are so small that I can't tell what they are. For all I know they > could > just be some other type of natural creature ;) I have been overfeeding the > tank just to make sure all the pleco's and snails get enough food, the > poor > cory's look like they could burst, LOL. > If there's peas in the food mixture do I need to feed more peas if I'm > overfeeding? ;) > > Amber > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 42173	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 7/18/2009
Subject: Re: Good thing I don't have 500 laying around in spare cash.

Oh yeah, I could see that going over well, the hubby comes home and I have 250 milk jugs all stacked up on each other ;) Next question would be, "where did you get all those milk jugs and why?" LOL Amber Steve Szabo wrote: > > > Amber, > > Well, if you knew that, why did you not just gather any combination of > gallon, quart, pint, and/or ounce size containers and start stacking > them up to determine how much room you would need for such a tank? > > \\Steve// > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] > On Behalf Of Amber Berglund > Sent: Saturday, July 18, 2009 4:50 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Good thing I don't have 500 laying around in > spare cash. > > Well I knew that much, I mostly wanted to know how much room it took up > ;) LOL > I still don't have the money anyways, but it's a VERY good deal. Wonder > what it comes with. > > Amber > > Steve Szabo wrote: > > > > > > 2,000 quarts > > 4,000 pints > > 32,000 liquid ounces > > > > Big enough to need FedEx Freight. > > > > \\Steve// > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On Behalf Of Amber Berglund > > Sent: Saturday, July 18, 2009 12:12 AM > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Good thing I don't have 500 laying around > > in spare cash. > > > > How big is a 500 gallon tank anyways? LOL > > > > Amber > > > > Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > > > > > > > > > That's a GOOD price. Soooo... are you gonna get it? I think it will > > fit in > > > the bedroom if y'all get a twin size bed. ;-) > > > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>>> > > > (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the > right > > > side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, > > Month) > > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On > > > Behalf Of Amber Berglund > > > Sent: Thursday, July 16, 2009 8:24 PM > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > Subject: [AquaticLife] Good thing I don't have 500 laying around in > > spare > > > cash. > > > > > > There's someone in town selling their 500 gallon aquarium for 500 > > > bucks OBO, > > > good thing hubby hasn't seen the ad he may have burned the paper > > before I > > > got to read it, LOL. > > > > > > Amber > > > > > > > > > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 42174	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 7/18/2009
Subject: Re: Good thing I don't have 500 laying around in spare cash.

I thought about asking to see it, but since I don't have the money for it it doesn't really matter if I see how big it is ;) Amber bill 1433 wrote: > > > > Hey Amber what about a few photo's? Or maybe seek over there and take > a few yourself? There seems to be quite a bit of speculation on the > list as to its actual size? > I wondering if maybe a 10 foot Acrylic Job? Time to go "under-cover" > and see what you can come up with? > > Bill > > --- On Sat, 7/18/09, Amber Berglund <arberglund@... > <mailto:arberglund%40gmail.com>> wrote: > > From: Amber Berglund <arberglund@... > <mailto:arberglund%40gmail.com>> > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Good thing I don't have 500 laying around > in spare cash. > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Date: Saturday, July 18, 2009, 4:49 PM > > Well I knew that much, I mostly wanted to know how much room it took up > ;) LOL > I still don't have the money anyways, but it's a VERY good deal. Wonder > what it comes with. > > Amber > > Steve Szabo wrote: > > > > > > 2,000 quarts > > 4,000 pints > > 32,000 liquid ounces > > > > Big enough to need FedEx Freight. > > > > \\Steve// > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On Behalf Of Amber Berglund > > Sent: Saturday, July 18, 2009 12:12 AM > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Good thing I don't have 500 laying around > > in spare cash. > > > > How big is a 500 gallon tank anyways? LOL > > > > Amber > > > > Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > > > > > > > > > That's a GOOD price. Soooo... are you gonna get it? I think it will > > fit in > > > the bedroom if y'all get a twin size bed. ;-) > > > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>>> > > > (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the > right > > > side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, > > Month) > > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On > > > Behalf Of Amber Berglund > > > Sent: Thursday, July 16, 2009 8:24 PM > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > Subject: [AquaticLife] Good thing I don't have 500 laying around in > > spare > > > cash. > > > > > > There's someone in town selling their 500 gallon aquarium for 500 > > > bucks OBO, > > > good thing hubby hasn't seen the ad he may have burned the paper > > before I > > > got to read it, LOL. > > > > > > Amber > > > > > > > > > > ------------------------------------ > > > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, > Thank You.. > > ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> > > PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT > > important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message > > MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- > > <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. > > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. > > > > If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of unsubscribing, > > you can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My > > Membership" on the home page. > > > > Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:aquaticlife-digest%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:aquaticlife-digest%40yahoogroups.com> to receive the digest, > > which includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email > > > > Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:aquaticlife-nomail%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:aquaticlife-nomail%40yahoogroups.com> for the No E-Mail option > > where you will still be able to read messages on the group and post > > replies. > > > > Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:aquaticlife-normal%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:aquaticlife-normal%40yahoogroups.com> to receive individual > > e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > ------------------------------------ > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. > ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> > PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT > important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message > MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- > <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. > > If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of unsubscribing, > you can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My > Membership" on the home page. > > Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:aquaticlife-digest%40yahoogroups.com> to receive the digest, > which includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email > > Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:aquaticlife-nomail%40yahoogroups.com> for the No E-Mail option > where you will still be able to read messages on the group and post > replies. > > Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:aquaticlife-normal%40yahoogroups.com> to receive individual > e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 42175	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 7/18/2009
Subject: Re: Good thing I don't have 500 laying around in spare cash.

Amber, Sine I do not know your husband, it would be difficult for me to posit an answer to that question. Since you do know him, it should be very easy for you to come up with an answer that, no matter how obliquely, applies to him. It works very well, at least from me to her, so much so she really doesn't bother to ask anymore <g>. And, when she does, she usually immediately regrets doing so, for some obscure reason. \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Amber Berglund Sent: Sunday, July 19, 2009 1:10 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Good thing I don't have 500 laying around in spare cash. Oh yeah, I could see that going over well, the hubby comes home and I have 250 milk jugs all stacked up on each other ;) Next question would be, "where did you get all those milk jugs and why?" LOL Amber Steve Szabo wrote: > > > Amber, > > Well, if you knew that, why did you not just gather any combination of > gallon, quart, pint, and/or ounce size containers and start stacking > them up to determine how much room you would need for such a tank? > > \\Steve// > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] > On Behalf Of Amber Berglund > Sent: Saturday, July 18, 2009 4:50 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Good thing I don't have 500 laying around in > spare cash. > > Well I knew that much, I mostly wanted to know how much room it took up > ;) LOL > I still don't have the money anyways, but it's a VERY good deal. Wonder > what it comes with. > > Amber > > Steve Szabo wrote: > > > > > > 2,000 quarts > > 4,000 pints > > 32,000 liquid ounces > > > > Big enough to need FedEx Freight. > > > > \\Steve// > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On Behalf Of Amber Berglund > > Sent: Saturday, July 18, 2009 12:12 AM > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Good thing I don't have 500 laying around > > in spare cash. > > > > How big is a 500 gallon tank anyways? LOL > > > > Amber > > > > Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > > > > > > > > > That's a GOOD price. Soooo... are you gonna get it? I think it will > > fit in > > > the bedroom if y'all get a twin size bed. ;-) > > > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>>> > > > (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the > right > > > side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, > > Month) > > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On > > > Behalf Of Amber Berglund > > > Sent: Thursday, July 16, 2009 8:24 PM > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > Subject: [AquaticLife] Good thing I don't have 500 laying around in > > spare > > > cash. > > > > > > There's someone in town selling their 500 gallon aquarium for 500 > > > bucks OBO, > > > good thing hubby hasn't seen the ad he may have burned the paper > > before I > > > got to read it, LOL. > > > > > > Amber > > > > > > > > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 42176	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 7/18/2009
Subject: Re: Good thing I don't have 500 laying around in spare cash.

You have 2 gallon jugs of milk up there? Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Amber Berglund Sent: Sunday, July 19, 2009 12:10 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Good thing I don't have 500 laying around in spare cash. Oh yeah, I could see that going over well, the hubby comes home and I have 250 milk jugs all stacked up on each other ;) Next question would be, "where did you get all those milk jugs and why?" LOL Amber Steve Szabo wrote: > > > Amber, > > Well, if you knew that, why did you not just gather any combination of > gallon, quart, pint, and/or ounce size containers and start stacking > them up to determine how much room you would need for such a tank? > > \\Steve// > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] > On Behalf Of Amber Berglund > Sent: Saturday, July 18, 2009 4:50 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Good thing I don't have 500 laying around > in spare cash. > > Well I knew that much, I mostly wanted to know how much room it took > up > ;) LOL > I still don't have the money anyways, but it's a VERY good deal. > Wonder what it comes with. > > Amber > > Steve Szabo wrote: > > > > > > 2,000 quarts > > 4,000 pints > > 32,000 liquid ounces > > > > Big enough to need FedEx Freight. > > > > \\Steve// > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On Behalf Of Amber Berglund > > Sent: Saturday, July 18, 2009 12:12 AM > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Good thing I don't have 500 laying around > > in spare cash. > > > > How big is a 500 gallon tank anyways? LOL > > > > Amber > > > > Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > > > > > > > > > That's a GOOD price. Soooo... are you gonna get it? I think it > > > will > > fit in > > > the bedroom if y'all get a twin size bed. ;-) > > > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>>> > > > (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the > right > > > side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, > > Month) > > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On Behalf Of Amber > > > Berglund > > > Sent: Thursday, July 16, 2009 8:24 PM > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > Subject: [AquaticLife] Good thing I don't have 500 laying around > > > in > > spare > > > cash. > > > > > > There's someone in town selling their 500 gallon aquarium for 500 > > > bucks OBO, good thing hubby hasn't seen the ad he may have burned > > > the paper > > before I > > > got to read it, LOL. > > > > > > Amber

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 42177	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 7/18/2009
Subject: Re: Good thing I don't have 500 laying around in spare cash.

I was wondering if anyone was going to catch that typo ;) LOL. No we have 1 gallon jugs of milk, and at some stores you can get the rare half gallon plastic jugs which I prefer cuz I don't drink very much milk and it usually goes bad in our fridge ;) Amber Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > > > You have 2 gallon jugs of milk up there? > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right > side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) > > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On > Behalf Of Amber Berglund > Sent: Sunday, July 19, 2009 12:10 AM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Good thing I don't have 500 laying around in > spare cash. > > Oh yeah, I could see that going over well, the hubby comes home and I have > 250 milk jugs all stacked up on each other ;) Next question would be, > "where > did you get all those milk jugs and why?" LOL > > Amber > > Steve Szabo wrote: > > > > > > Amber, > > > > Well, if you knew that, why did you not just gather any combination of > > gallon, quart, pint, and/or ounce size containers and start stacking > > them up to determine how much room you would need for such a tank? > > > > \\Steve// > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] > > On Behalf Of Amber Berglund > > Sent: Saturday, July 18, 2009 4:50 PM > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Good thing I don't have 500 laying around > > in spare cash. > > > > Well I knew that much, I mostly wanted to know how much room it took > > up > > ;) LOL > > I still don't have the money anyways, but it's a VERY good deal. > > Wonder what it comes with. > > > > Amber > > > > Steve Szabo wrote: > > > > > > > > > 2,000 quarts > > > 4,000 pints > > > 32,000 liquid ounces > > > > > > Big enough to need FedEx Freight. > > > > > > \\Steve// > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On Behalf Of Amber Berglund > > > Sent: Saturday, July 18, 2009 12:12 AM > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Good thing I don't have 500 laying around > > > in spare cash. > > > > > > How big is a 500 gallon tank anyways? LOL > > > > > > Amber > > > > > > Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > That's a GOOD price. Soooo... are you gonna get it? I think it > > > > will > > > fit in > > > > the bedroom if y'all get a twin size bed. ;-) > > > > > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>> > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>>> > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>> > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>>>> > > > > (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the > > right > > > > side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, > > > Month) > > > > > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On Behalf Of Amber > > > > Berglund > > > > Sent: Thursday, July 16, 2009 8:24 PM > > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > Subject: [AquaticLife] Good thing I don't have 500 laying around > > > > in > > > spare > > > > cash. > > > > > > > > There's someone in town selling their 500 gallon aquarium for 500 > > > > bucks OBO, good thing hubby hasn't seen the ad he may have burned > > > > the paper > > > before I > > > > got to read it, LOL. > > > > > > > > Amber > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 42178	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 7/18/2009
Subject: Aponogeton bulbs doing well

Just wanted to post some links to photos of my Aponogeton bulbs and how well they've done in the last 2 weeks since I planted them. My Boivinianus, madagascar lace, and ulvaceus are all doing great, the ulvaceus is trying to take over the tank, I'm almost wondering if I should move it to the 125 gallon but that would upset a lot of dirt/substrate now... Madagascar lace: http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2654/3734453228_6141cb5005_b.jpg Ulvaceus and you can see the boivinianus below and to the left of it. If you look close you can see a guppy fry right behind the leaf where the mystery snail is too (right to the left, that dark spot) LOL. http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2464/3733654985_a9e422c141_b.jpg I'm really starting to like Aponogeton's, I'm thinking about getting some more in the future and planting them into the other tanks. Amber

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 42179	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 7/18/2009
Subject: Re: What do baby cherry shrimp look like?

Oh and that photo of the snail holding onto duckweed actually did turn out, I have to share it ;) LOL. http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2539/3734454366_2f1bc7a5ba_b.jpg Amber pam andress wrote: > > > > They are super tiny, so that is probably what you are seeing. Hard to > see color as they are so small, so they appear white. > > Pam > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > From: GoldLenny@... <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com> > Date: Sat, 18 Jul 2009 18:17:08 -0500 > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] What do baby cherry shrimp look like? > > They are born as exact replicas of adult cherry shrimp... only smaller. > > As far as feeding... only you know if you are overfeeding. Peas are meant > as a snack and also as a laxative... kind of like giving a friend a > piece of > chocolate flavored ex-lax. LOL > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right > side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On > Behalf Of Amber Berglund > Sent: Saturday, July 18, 2009 4:28 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Subject: [AquaticLife] What do baby cherry shrimp look like? > > I have what appears to be little while things moving around in the > tank, but > they are so small that I can't tell what they are. For all I know they > could > just be some other type of natural creature ;) I have been overfeeding the > tank just to make sure all the pleco's and snails get enough food, the > poor > cory's look like they could burst, LOL. > If there's peas in the food mixture do I need to feed more peas if I'm > overfeeding? ;) > > Amber > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 42180	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 7/18/2009
Subject: Male or Female?

I'm thinking I got 2 females from Pam myself (and that's what she was guessing as well), which is fine, I wasn't planning on breeding them or anything but I was curious if anyone else wants to take a look at one of the pics (I only have pics of one so far, the other is in the 125 gallon and hard to find, LOL). I don't even know how old they get when the males start growing their "bristles". She sent me 3 brown BN pleco's so I'm hoping to end up with a male out of one of those 3 but they're too young to even take a guess at gender at this point. I like their white tips on their tails though, cute. Maybe some of those albino fry will survive and I'll end up with more albino's too, that'd be nifty. Anyways, here's the link to the photo of the albino BN pleco. http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3488/3733656121_29fdfeb8ce_b.jpg Amber

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 42181	From: Menagerie_Manager	Date: 7/19/2009
Subject: Re: Good thing I don't have 500 laying around in spare cash.

Somehow buying 500 gallons of milk at $2 or more a gallon to figure the size of a tank selling for $1 a gallon doesn't seem cost effective. Now if you went on Freecycle.com and requested them . . . or you could hang around Rochester, NY, and collect up all the milk cartons after their annual milk carton raft race on the Genesee river. ;-) DebR and the Three Goldfish (CB, Lucille, and Raven) ----- Original Message ----- From: "Amber Berglund" <arberglund@...> >I was wondering if anyone was going to catch that typo ;) LOL. > No we have 1 gallon jugs of milk, and at some stores you can get the > rare half gallon plastic jugs which I prefer cuz I don't drink very much > milk and it usually goes bad in our fridge ;) > > Amber > > Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: >> You have 2 gallon jugs of milk up there? >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: Amber Berglund >> Oh yeah, I could see that going over well, the hubby comes home and I >> have >> 250 milk jugs all stacked up on each other ;) Next question would be, >> "where >> did you get all those milk jugs and why?" LOL

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 42182	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 7/19/2009
Subject: Re: What do baby cherry shrimp look like?

So... did you name him/her "Spider-Snail"... as in your Cory's hanging around on the bottom singing... Spider-Snail, Spider-Snail, Can't tell if it's a male Can s/he swing from a thread, Take a look overhead, Hey there, There goes the Spider-Snail http://www.lyricsondemand.com/tvthemes/spidermanlyrics.html Uh-oh... it's gonna be one of them days. LOL I'm off to work in a little while so this may be the last song parody that I write today. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Amber Berglund Sent: Sunday, July 19, 2009 12:43 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] What do baby cherry shrimp look like? Oh and that photo of the snail holding onto duckweed actually did turn out, I have to share it ;) LOL. http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2539/3734454366_2f1bc7a5ba_b.jpg Amber pam andress wrote: > > > > They are super tiny, so that is probably what you are seeing. Hard to > see color as they are so small, so they appear white. > > Pam > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > From: GoldLenny@... <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com> > Date: Sat, 18 Jul 2009 18:17:08 -0500 > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] What do baby cherry shrimp look like? > > They are born as exact replicas of adult cherry shrimp... only smaller. > > As far as feeding... only you know if you are overfeeding. Peas are > meant as a snack and also as a laxative... kind of like giving a > friend a piece of chocolate flavored ex-lax. LOL > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> (Links to any articles referenced in > above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels > and also under Archives by Year, Month) > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On Behalf Of Amber Berglund > Sent: Saturday, July 18, 2009 4:28 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Subject: [AquaticLife] What do baby cherry shrimp look like? > > I have what appears to be little while things moving around in the > tank, but they are so small that I can't tell what they are. For all I > know they could just be some other type of natural creature ;) I have > been overfeeding the tank just to make sure all the pleco's and snails > get enough food, the poor cory's look like they could burst, LOL. > If there's peas in the food mixture do I need to feed more peas if I'm > overfeeding? ;) > > Amber

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 42183	From: Donna Ransome	Date: 7/19/2009
Subject: Fishless Cycle: How Much Ammonia?

This Q is for another fishkeeper, I have plenty of cycled tanks and would just use an established filter. Is there a formula for the amount of ammonia to add if you want to add a certain bioload of fish all at once when the cycle is complete? Let's say you have a 125G tank and want to add 30 cichlids that are 1.5 inches long? The articles I have read suggest an amount, but do not tailor it to the ultimate bioload. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 42184	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 7/19/2009
Subject: Re: Fishless Cycle: How Much Ammonia?

Fishless cycling with the ammonia level brought up to 4-5ppm is the most effective and according to some white papers by Dr. Tim, a "fully" stocked (not overstocked) tank will create around 4-5ppm of ammonia each day. Further, this level seems to be the optimal level for Fishless Cycling a tank as trying to go higher will often result in the cycle stalling. Regardless of the level in which one intends to stock a tank, Fishless Cycling it to 4-5ppm of ammonia (each day) will create a LARGE nitrifying bacteria colony and if the bioload does not create 4-5ppm of ammonia, then the colony will shrink in size. if the bioload creates more than 4-5ppm of ammonia per day, the colony will grow in size to handle the additional bioload. Since nitrifying bacteria colonies can double in size within 24-48 hours, the larger bioload will not result in much of a cycling issue with the tank and the tank should be fully cycled for even a double-size bioload within a day or two. BTW... if one does not have an ammonia test kit (or master test kit), they can still start off their fishless cycling by simply adding 3 drops of plain ammonia per gallon. This will bring the ammonia level up to at least 3ppm and as high as 5ppm (depending on the size of the drops). They will not be able to add any more ammonia until they get a test kit but at least this 3 drops per gallon will get the fishless cycling started for the first few days to a week while they are waiting to buy their first Master Test Kit. Using your proposed 30 1.5" fish in a 125G tank, this would be 45 fish inches so it would be less than 50% of the available bioload if these fish were not expected to grow. Technically, the tank could be fishless cycled to only 2ppm of ammonia, rather than 4ppm of ammonia and this should easily handle this proposed bioload. Once you build a nice colony of nitrifying bacteria, there is a lot of room for margin of error since the colony can quickly multiply in size if one underestimated the size of the bioload... HOWEVER... in all that I've read, the time frame that it takes to fishless cycle to 4-5ppm is the same as fishless cycling to 2ppm so one might as well do the fishless cycle to 4-5ppm and not have to worry about underestimating the size of the bioload. The only savings by fishless cycling to 2ppm would be the few pennies saved on the cost of ammonia. A quart sized bottle can be purchased for around a dollar and only a fraction of that quart sized bottle would be needed to fishless cycle even a 125G tank. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Donna Ransome Sent: Sunday, July 19, 2009 8:46 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Fishless Cycle: How Much Ammonia? This Q is for another fishkeeper, I have plenty of cycled tanks and would just use an established filter. Is there a formula for the amount of ammonia to add if you want to add a certain bioload of fish all at once when the cycle is complete? Let's say you have a 125G tank and want to add 30 cichlids that are 1.5 inches long? The articles I have read suggest an amount, but do not tailor it to the ultimate bioload.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 42185	From: William	Date: 7/19/2009
Subject: Re: Fishless Cycle: How Much Ammonia?

While reading through the first post of this topic, I read that the poster has 30 "cichlids" that are 1 & 1/2 inches long. It needs to be found out how large each of these cichlids are going to grow. If they are going to satay small like rams then it will be alright but most cichlids grow a lot larger than 2 or 3 inches.Some cichlids such as the dovii can reach lengths of over 24 inches and a 125 gallon tank woud be just large enough for a pair of them. --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@...> wrote: > > Fishless cycling with the ammonia level brought up to 4-5ppm is the most > effective and according to some white papers by Dr. Tim, a "fully" stocked > (not overstocked) tank will create around 4-5ppm of ammonia each day. > Further, this level seems to be the optimal level for Fishless Cycling a > tank as trying to go higher will often result in the cycle stalling. > > Regardless of the level in which one intends to stock a tank, Fishless > Cycling it to 4-5ppm of ammonia (each day) will create a LARGE nitrifying > bacteria colony and if the bioload does not create 4-5ppm of ammonia, then > the colony will shrink in size. if the bioload creates more than 4-5ppm of > ammonia per day, the colony will grow in size to handle the additional > bioload. Since nitrifying bacteria colonies can double in size within 24-48 > hours, the larger bioload will not result in much of a cycling issue with > the tank and the tank should be fully cycled for even a double-size bioload > within a day or two. > > BTW... if one does not have an ammonia test kit (or master test kit), they > can still start off their fishless cycling by simply adding 3 drops of plain > ammonia per gallon. This will bring the ammonia level up to at least 3ppm > and as high as 5ppm (depending on the size of the drops). They will not be > able to add any more ammonia until they get a test kit but at least this 3 > drops per gallon will get the fishless cycling started for the first few > days to a week while they are waiting to buy their first Master Test Kit. > > Using your proposed 30 1.5" fish in a 125G tank, this would be 45 fish > inches so it would be less than 50% of the available bioload if these fish > were not expected to grow. Technically, the tank could be fishless cycled > to only 2ppm of ammonia, rather than 4ppm of ammonia and this should easily > handle this proposed bioload. Once you build a nice colony of nitrifying > bacteria, there is a lot of room for margin of error since the colony can > quickly multiply in size if one underestimated the size of the bioload... > HOWEVER... in all that I've read, the time frame that it takes to fishless > cycle to 4-5ppm is the same as fishless cycling to 2ppm so one might as well > do the fishless cycle to 4-5ppm and not have to worry about underestimating > the size of the bioload. The only savings by fishless cycling to 2ppm would > be the few pennies saved on the cost of ammonia. A quart sized bottle can > be purchased for around a dollar and only a fraction of that quart sized > bottle would be needed to fishless cycle even a 125G tank. > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right > side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) > > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On > Behalf Of Donna Ransome > Sent: Sunday, July 19, 2009 8:46 AM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Subject: [AquaticLife] Fishless Cycle: How Much Ammonia? > > This Q is for another fishkeeper, I have plenty of cycled tanks and would > just use an established filter. > > Is there a formula for the amount of ammonia to add if you want to add a > certain bioload of fish all at once when the cycle is complete? > > Let's say you have a 125G tank and want to add 30 cichlids that are 1.5 > inches long? > > The articles I have read suggest an amount, but do not tailor it to the > ultimate bioload. >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 42186	From: Donna Ransome	Date: 7/19/2009
Subject: Re: Fishless Cycle: How Much Ammonia?

Thanks that's just what I needed. _____ From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Lenny V. aka GoldLenny Sent: Sunday, July 19, 2009 10:13 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Fishless Cycle: How Much Ammonia? Fishless cycling with the ammonia level brought up to 4-5ppm is the most effective and according to some white papers by Dr. Tim, a "fully" stocked (not overstocked) tank will create around 4-5ppm of ammonia each day. Further, this level seems to be the optimal level for Fishless Cycling a tank as trying to go higher will often result in the cycle stalling. Regardless of the level in which one intends to stock a tank, Fishless Cycling it to 4-5ppm of ammonia (each day) will create a LARGE nitrifying bacteria colony and if the bioload does not create 4-5ppm of ammonia, then the colony will shrink in size. if the bioload creates more than 4-5ppm of ammonia per day, the colony will grow in size to handle the additional bioload. Since nitrifying bacteria colonies can double in size within 24-48 hours, the larger bioload will not result in much of a cycling issue with the tank and the tank should be fully cycled for even a double-size bioload within a day or two. BTW... if one does not have an ammonia test kit (or master test kit), they can still start off their fishless cycling by simply adding 3 drops of plain ammonia per gallon. This will bring the ammonia level up to at least 3ppm and as high as 5ppm (depending on the size of the drops). They will not be able to add any more ammonia until they get a test kit but at least this 3 drops per gallon will get the fishless cycling started for the first few days to a week while they are waiting to buy their first Master Test Kit. Using your proposed 30 1.5" fish in a 125G tank, this would be 45 fish inches so it would be less than 50% of the available bioload if these fish were not expected to grow. Technically, the tank could be fishless cycled to only 2ppm of ammonia, rather than 4ppm of ammonia and this should easily handle this proposed bioload. Once you build a nice colony of nitrifying bacteria, there is a lot of room for margin of error since the colony can quickly multiply in size if one underestimated the size of the bioload... HOWEVER... in all that I've read, the time frame that it takes to fishless cycle to 4-5ppm is the same as fishless cycling to 2ppm so one might as well do the fishless cycle to 4-5ppm and not have to worry about underestimating the size of the bioload. The only savings by fishless cycling to 2ppm would be the few pennies saved on the cost of ammonia. A quart sized bottle can be purchased for around a dollar and only a fraction of that quart sized bottle would be needed to fishless cycle even a 125G tank. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Donna Ransome Sent: Sunday, July 19, 2009 8:46 AM To: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Fishless Cycle: How Much Ammonia? This Q is for another fishkeeper, I have plenty of cycled tanks and would just use an established filter. Is there a formula for the amount of ammonia to add if you want to add a certain bioload of fish all at once when the cycle is complete? Let's say you have a 125G tank and want to add 30 cichlids that are 1.5 inches long? The articles I have read suggest an amount, but do not tailor it to the ultimate bioload. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 42187	From: Donna Ransome	Date: 7/19/2009
Subject: Re: Fishless Cycle: How Much Ammonia?

The question was specific to the amount of ammonia to use for a fishless cycle. Thus you would need to estimate the bioload for juvies. It was not meant as an inquiry about correct stocking levels for a 125G when fish were mature. But if we want to switch the post to stocking levels, the example fish were Malawi mbuna who generally grow to 6” at maturity. For a 72” x 18” tank I have found 5 species with 6 individuals each to work well. I had mbuna in my 125G for two years with an equivalent stocking. Some of mine were Demasoni who are dwarf and mature at 3” so my numbers were a little higher. And I had a flock of synos, LOL. Mbuna need to be on the crowded side to spread aggression. If you filter the tank for 10X gph it works well. They like clean water so 50% to 75% weekly water changes are a good practice. My nitrates tend to be 20ppm before water change, and 10ppm after. _____ From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of William Sent: Sunday, July 19, 2009 11:10 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Fishless Cycle: How Much Ammonia? While reading through the first post of this topic, I read that the poster has 30 "cichlids" that are 1 & 1/2 inches long. It needs to be found out how large each of these cichlids are going to grow. If they are going to satay small like rams then it will be alright but most cichlids grow a lot larger than 2 or 3 inches.Some cichlids such as the dovii can reach lengths of over 24 inches and a 125 gallon tank woud be just large enough for a pair of them. --- In AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com, "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@...> wrote: > > Fishless cycling with the ammonia level brought up to 4-5ppm is the most > effective and according to some white papers by Dr. Tim, a "fully" stocked > (not overstocked) tank will create around 4-5ppm of ammonia each day. > Further, this level seems to be the optimal level for Fishless Cycling a > tank as trying to go higher will often result in the cycle stalling. > > Regardless of the level in which one intends to stock a tank, Fishless > Cycling it to 4-5ppm of ammonia (each day) will create a LARGE nitrifying > bacteria colony and if the bioload does not create 4-5ppm of ammonia, then > the colony will shrink in size. if the bioload creates more than 4-5ppm of > ammonia per day, the colony will grow in size to handle the additional > bioload. Since nitrifying bacteria colonies can double in size within 24-48 > hours, the larger bioload will not result in much of a cycling issue with > the tank and the tank should be fully cycled for even a double-size bioload > within a day or two. > > BTW... if one does not have an ammonia test kit (or master test kit), they > can still start off their fishless cycling by simply adding 3 drops of plain > ammonia per gallon. This will bring the ammonia level up to at least 3ppm > and as high as 5ppm (depending on the size of the drops). They will not be > able to add any more ammonia until they get a test kit but at least this 3 > drops per gallon will get the fishless cycling started for the first few > days to a week while they are waiting to buy their first Master Test Kit. > > Using your proposed 30 1.5" fish in a 125G tank, this would be 45 fish > inches so it would be less than 50% of the available bioload if these fish > were not expected to grow. Technically, the tank could be fishless cycled > to only 2ppm of ammonia, rather than 4ppm of ammonia and this should easily > handle this proposed bioload. Once you build a nice colony of nitrifying > bacteria, there is a lot of room for margin of error since the colony can > quickly multiply in size if one underestimated the size of the bioload... > HOWEVER... in all that I've read, the time frame that it takes to fishless > cycle to 4-5ppm is the same as fishless cycling to 2ppm so one might as well > do the fishless cycle to 4-5ppm and not have to worry about underestimating > the size of the bioload. The only savings by fishless cycling to 2ppm would > be the few pennies saved on the cost of ammonia. A quart sized bottle can > be purchased for around a dollar and only a fraction of that quart sized > bottle would be needed to fishless cycle even a 125G tank. > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> blogspot.com > (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right > side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) > > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com] On > Behalf Of Donna Ransome > Sent: Sunday, July 19, 2009 8:46 AM > To: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com > Subject: [AquaticLife] Fishless Cycle: How Much Ammonia? > > This Q is for another fishkeeper, I have plenty of cycled tanks and would > just use an established filter. > > Is there a formula for the amount of ammonia to add if you want to add a > certain bioload of fish all at once when the cycle is complete? > > Let's say you have a 125G tank and want to add 30 cichlids that are 1.5 > inches long? > > The articles I have read suggest an amount, but do not tailor it to the > ultimate bioload. > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 42188	From: pam andress	Date: 7/19/2009
Subject: Re: What do baby cherry shrimp look like?

Not a bad picture. I have some floating plants and I think that is neat too when they do that. Pam To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com From: arberglund@... Date: Sat, 18 Jul 2009 21:43:14 -0800 Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] What do baby cherry shrimp look like? Oh and that photo of the snail holding onto duckweed actually did turn out, I have to share it ;) LOL. http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2539/3734454366_2f1bc7a5ba_b.jpg Amber pam andress wrote: > > > > They are super tiny, so that is probably what you are seeing. Hard to > see color as they are so small, so they appear white. > > Pam > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > From: GoldLenny@... <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com> > Date: Sat, 18 Jul 2009 18:17:08 -0500 > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] What do baby cherry shrimp look like? > > They are born as exact replicas of adult cherry shrimp... only smaller. > > As far as feeding... only you know if you are overfeeding. Peas are meant > as a snack and also as a laxative... kind of like giving a friend a > piece of > chocolate flavored ex-lax. LOL > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right > side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On > Behalf Of Amber Berglund > Sent: Saturday, July 18, 2009 4:28 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Subject: [AquaticLife] What do baby cherry shrimp look like? > > I have what appears to be little while things moving around in the > tank, but > they are so small that I can't tell what they are. For all I know they > could > just be some other type of natural creature ;) I have been overfeeding the > tank just to make sure all the pleco's and snails get enough food, the > poor > cory's look like they could burst, LOL. > If there's peas in the food mixture do I need to feed more peas if I'm > overfeeding? ;) > > Amber > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 42189	From: pam andress	Date: 7/19/2009
Subject: Re: What do baby cherry shrimp look like?

Lenny you are sick. lol But I love it. Pam To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com From: GoldLenny@... Date: Sun, 19 Jul 2009 08:36:45 -0500 Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] What do baby cherry shrimp look like? So... did you name him/her "Spider-Snail"... as in your Cory's hanging around on the bottom singing... Spider-Snail, Spider-Snail, Can't tell if it's a male Can s/he swing from a thread, Take a look overhead, Hey there, There goes the Spider-Snail http://www.lyricsondemand.com/tvthemes/spidermanlyrics.html Uh-oh... it's gonna be one of them days. LOL I'm off to work in a little while so this may be the last song parody that I write today. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Amber Berglund Sent: Sunday, July 19, 2009 12:43 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] What do baby cherry shrimp look like? Oh and that photo of the snail holding onto duckweed actually did turn out, I have to share it ;) LOL. http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2539/3734454366_2f1bc7a5ba_b.jpg Amber pam andress wrote: > > > > They are super tiny, so that is probably what you are seeing. Hard to > see color as they are so small, so they appear white. > > Pam > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > From: GoldLenny@... <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com> > Date: Sat, 18 Jul 2009 18:17:08 -0500 > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] What do baby cherry shrimp look like? > > They are born as exact replicas of adult cherry shrimp... only smaller. > > As far as feeding... only you know if you are overfeeding. Peas are > meant as a snack and also as a laxative... kind of like giving a > friend a piece of chocolate flavored ex-lax. LOL > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> (Links to any articles referenced in > above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels > and also under Archives by Year, Month) > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On Behalf Of Amber Berglund > Sent: Saturday, July 18, 2009 4:28 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Subject: [AquaticLife] What do baby cherry shrimp look like? > > I have what appears to be little while things moving around in the > tank, but they are so small that I can't tell what they are. For all I > know they could just be some other type of natural creature ;) I have > been overfeeding the tank just to make sure all the pleco's and snails > get enough food, the poor cory's look like they could burst, LOL. > If there's peas in the food mixture do I need to feed more peas if I'm > overfeeding? ;) > > Amber [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 42190	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 7/19/2009
Subject: Re: What do baby cherry shrimp look like?

All it reminded me of was the "Spider pig" episode of the simpsons ;) LOL. But yes, I knew that it was the spider man lyrics too, the simpsons was just the first to come to mind ;) Amber pam andress wrote: > > > > Lenny you are sick. lol But I love it. > > Pam > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > From: GoldLenny@... <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com> > Date: Sun, 19 Jul 2009 08:36:45 -0500 > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] What do baby cherry shrimp look like? > > So... did you name him/her "Spider-Snail"... as in your Cory's hanging > around on the bottom singing... > > Spider-Snail, Spider-Snail, > Can't tell if it's a male > Can s/he swing from a thread, > Take a look overhead, > Hey there, > There goes the Spider-Snail > > http://www.lyricsondemand.com/tvthemes/spidermanlyrics.html > <http://www.lyricsondemand.com/tvthemes/spidermanlyrics.html> > > Uh-oh... it's gonna be one of them days. LOL > > I'm off to work in a little while so this may be the last song parody > that I > write today. > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right > side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On > Behalf Of Amber Berglund > Sent: Sunday, July 19, 2009 12:43 AM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] What do baby cherry shrimp look like? > > Oh and that photo of the snail holding onto duckweed actually did turn > out, > I have to share it ;) LOL. > http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2539/3734454366_2f1bc7a5ba_b.jpg > <http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2539/3734454366_2f1bc7a5ba_b.jpg> > > Amber > > pam andress wrote: > > > > > > > > They are super tiny, so that is probably what you are seeing. Hard to > > see color as they are so small, so they appear white. > > > > Pam > > > > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > From: GoldLenny@... <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com> > <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com> > > Date: Sat, 18 Jul 2009 18:17:08 -0500 > > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] What do baby cherry shrimp look like? > > > > They are born as exact replicas of adult cherry shrimp... only smaller. > > > > As far as feeding... only you know if you are overfeeding. Peas are > > meant as a snack and also as a laxative... kind of like giving a > > friend a piece of chocolate flavored ex-lax. LOL > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>> > (Links to any articles referenced in > > above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels > > and also under Archives by Year, Month) > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On Behalf Of Amber Berglund > > Sent: Saturday, July 18, 2009 4:28 PM > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > Subject: [AquaticLife] What do baby cherry shrimp look like? > > > > I have what appears to be little while things moving around in the > > tank, but they are so small that I can't tell what they are. For all I > > know they could just be some other type of natural creature ;) I have > > been overfeeding the tank just to make sure all the pleco's and snails > > get enough food, the poor cory's look like they could burst, LOL. > > If there's peas in the food mixture do I need to feed more peas if I'm > > overfeeding? ;) > > > > Amber > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 42191	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 7/19/2009
Subject: Kuroshio Sea

Hey, Amber, How about this tank for you? 1,981,290 gallons. Viewing window is 8.2 meters by 22.5 meters with a thickness of 60 centimeters (26.9' x 73.8' x 23.6"). Site includes a 4:34 minute video. http://agentpx.blogspot.com/2009/07/kuroshio-sea-2nd-largest-aquarium-ta nk.html http://tinyurl.com/kw33t2 \\Steve//

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 42192	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 7/19/2009
Subject: Re: Kuroshio Sea

Great, but I wouldn't be able to afford to feed all those fish ;) LOL Amber Steve Szabo wrote: > > > Hey, Amber, > > How about this tank for you? 1,981,290 gallons. Viewing window is 8.2 > meters by 22.5 meters with a thickness of 60 centimeters (26.9' x 73.8' > x 23.6"). Site includes a 4:34 minute video. > http://agentpx.blogspot.com/2009/07/kuroshio-sea-2nd-largest-aquarium-ta > <http://agentpx.blogspot.com/2009/07/kuroshio-sea-2nd-largest-aquarium-ta> > nk.html > http://tinyurl.com/kw33t2 <http://tinyurl.com/kw33t2> > > \\Steve// > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 42193	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 7/19/2009
Subject: Re: Kuroshio Sea

Charge admission. If you put your platys in there, and some guppies, heck, you could probably have it fully stocked in about a year or so. \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Amber Berglund Sent: Sunday, July 19, 2009 10:10 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Kuroshio Sea Great, but I wouldn't be able to afford to feed all those fish ;) LOL Amber Steve Szabo wrote: > > > Hey, Amber, > > How about this tank for you? 1,981,290 gallons. Viewing window is 8.2 > meters by 22.5 meters with a thickness of 60 centimeters (26.9' x 73.8' > x 23.6"). Site includes a 4:34 minute video. > http://agentpx.blogspot.com/2009/07/kuroshio-sea-2nd-largest-aquarium-ta > <http://agentpx.blogspot.com/2009/07/kuroshio-sea-2nd-largest-aquarium-t a> > nk.html > http://tinyurl.com/kw33t2 <http://tinyurl.com/kw33t2> > > \\Steve// > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 42194	From: Lisa	Date: 7/19/2009
Subject: Looking for a betta

Hey all. I havn't posted in a while...well at least regarding my departed betta Malfoy. And i recal saying that i wasn't gonna get another for a while. But i recently lost an old female swordtail in my tank. So i'm on the hunt again for another betta. Now. If anyone is selling any males, or breeds bettas, i would be happy to take one. I would like either a crowntail or a halfmoon. Colours that i like, are bright viberant reds, marbled or butterfly. Even irridesant or piebald Or greens. I'll even take irridesant blues You can email me privatly offlist at Lisa_Lawless2004@... Pictures would really be apriciated too. And i will only send money orders. Thanks guys Lisa

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 42195	From: Natalie Beacom	Date: 7/20/2009
Subject: Re: Kuroshio Sea

OMG I cried when I watched that it's BEAUTIFUL!!!! I'd LOVE to have that!!!!

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 42196	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 7/20/2009
Subject: Fish Pics

I managed a few good close up's lately, mostly of one of the new pleco's but I have some others to share, LOL. The newest are on top, just click on the thumbnail pics for a close up. http://www.flickr.com/photos/spamber/sets/72157616488912354/ There's a pic of one of Pam's Plume tail platy's (the black one with the orange nose), but it's hard to see against the driftwood. Amber

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 42197	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 7/20/2009
Subject: Japanese fishermen brace for giant jellyfish - CNN.com

http://www.cnn.com/2009/WORLD/asiapcf/07/19/japan.jellyfish/ 6 feet across--wrecks fishermen's nets. I don't know what they eat, but, I don't think I'd want to be in the water when these guys are around. \\Steve//

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 42198	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 7/20/2009
Subject: Re: Japanese fishermen brace for giant jellyfish - CNN.com

Most jellyfish sting their prey and slowly eat it after it's helpless... So in other words they prey on anything small enough to eat ;) Which could include stupid humans that don't get out of the way of one ;) LOL Amber Steve Szabo wrote: > > > http://www.cnn.com/2009/WORLD/asiapcf/07/19/japan.jellyfish/ > <http://www.cnn.com/2009/WORLD/asiapcf/07/19/japan.jellyfish/> > > 6 feet across--wrecks fishermen's nets. I don't know what they eat, but, > I don't think I'd want to be in the water when these guys are around. > > \\Steve// > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 42199	From: bill 1433	Date: 7/21/2009
Subject: Mail Check?

just checking ------------------no mail from here.   Bill

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 42200	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 7/21/2009
Subject: Re: Mail Check?

Well I got your mail, and I sent out a couple last night, not sure if they made it to the group yet. Amber bill 1433 wrote: > > > > just checking ------------------no mail from here. > > Bill > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 42201	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 7/21/2009
Subject: Re: Mail Check?

It's been quiet... except for Amber. LOL Oh yeah... and \\Steve//. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of bill 1433 Sent: Tuesday, July 21, 2009 9:14 AM To: AquaticLife Subject: [AquaticLife] Mail Check? just checking ------------------no mail from here.   Bill

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 42202	From: bill 1433	Date: 7/21/2009
Subject: Re: Mail Check?

Messed up there! MT deleted folder but I got this one fine. Guess eveyone's just busy. Bill --- On Tue, 7/21/09, Amber Berglund <arberglund@...> wrote: > From: Amber Berglund <arberglund@...> > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Mail Check? > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Date: Tuesday, July 21, 2009, 10:28 AM > Well I got your mail, and I sent out > a couple last night, not sure if > they made it to the group yet. > > Amber > > bill 1433 wrote: > >  > > > > > > just checking ------------------no mail from here. > >  > > Bill > > > > > > > ------------------------------------ > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when > replying, Thank You. > ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> > ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> > PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is > NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of > the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new > subject (was re: old subject)" <- > <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. > , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. > > If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of > unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by > clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the home page.  > > Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com > to receive the digest, which includes up to 25 posts at a > time in a single email > > Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com > for the No E-Mail option where you will still be able to > read messages on the group and post replies. > > Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com > to receive individual e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links > > >     mailto:AquaticLife-fullfeatured@yahoogroups.com > > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 42203	From: bill 1433	Date: 7/21/2009
Subject: Re: Mail Check?

Thanks Len, Just got your posted in under 5 minutes so I guess everything is ok. Bill --- On Tue, 7/21/09, Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@...> wrote: > From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@...> > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Mail Check? > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Date: Tuesday, July 21, 2009, 10:39 AM > It's been quiet... except for Amber. > LOL > > Oh yeah... and \\Steve//. > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed > on the right > side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives > by Year, Month) > > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] > On > Behalf Of bill 1433 > Sent: Tuesday, July 21, 2009 9:14 AM > To: AquaticLife > Subject: [AquaticLife] Mail Check? > > > just checking ------------------no mail from here. >   > Bill > > > > > ------------------------------------ > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when > replying, Thank You. > ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> > ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> > PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is > NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of > the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new > subject (was re: old subject)" <- > <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. > , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. > > If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of > unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by > clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the home page.  > > Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com > to receive the digest, which includes up to 25 posts at a > time in a single email > > Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com > for the No E-Mail option where you will still be able to > read messages on the group and post replies. > > Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com > to receive individual e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links > > >     mailto:AquaticLife-fullfeatured@yahoogroups.com > > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 42204	From: nicurns@bellsouth.net	Date: 7/21/2009
Subject: Fighting Angels

Hello all!!!! I have a question regarding angelfish fighting. As I've stated before, we have a 58gal/plus tank that we now house 2 large angels, 2 cory's, a hugh pleco and 3 baby cichlids (1-2cm each). We started with a group of 6 angels that did great for 4 months, then for some unknown reason we started losing one a day over a week span, till we only had 2. Never did we see aggression/fighting of any kind back then and that was over 3-4 months back. However..... our angels are now fighting with one being very rough on the other. I removed the less dominant one to a seperate tank, treated to heal him and he recovered well and fin's looked great. I then re-arranged the tank decor, and placed "him" (??? sex) back into the tank, and yet again here I am again in just a few days. I have read that a group of 3 or more is better, but I fear adding another to be picked on. Any suggestions??? James S.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 42205	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 7/21/2009
Subject: Re: Mail Check?

When it gets quiet I have to post just so I know someone is still posting, gotta keep up the quota y'know ;) LOL Amber Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > > > It's been quiet... except for Amber. LOL > > Oh yeah... and \\Steve//. > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right > side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) > > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On > Behalf Of bill 1433 > Sent: Tuesday, July 21, 2009 9:14 AM > To: AquaticLife > Subject: [AquaticLife] Mail Check? > > just checking ------------------no mail from here. > > Bill > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 42206	From: bill 1433	Date: 7/21/2009
Subject: Re: Mail Check?

Amen to that!   Bill --- On Tue, 7/21/09, Amber Berglund <arberglund@...> wrote: From: Amber Berglund <arberglund@...> Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Mail Check? To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Date: Tuesday, July 21, 2009, 11:38 AM When it gets quiet I have to post just so I know someone is still posting, gotta keep up the quota y'know ;) LOL Amber Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: >  > > It's been quiet... except for Amber. LOL > > Oh yeah... and \\Steve//. > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right > side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) > > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On > Behalf Of bill 1433 > Sent: Tuesday, July 21, 2009 9:14 AM > To: AquaticLife > Subject: [AquaticLife] Mail Check? > > just checking ------------------no mail from here. >  > Bill > > ------------------------------------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the home page.  Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com to receive the digest, which includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com for the No E-Mail option where you will still be able to read messages on the group and post replies. Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com to receive individual e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 42207	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 7/21/2009
Subject: Re: Fighting Angels

Unless a mated pair, Angels are often best kept singly or in groups. Considering the rest of the bioload of the tank, in your case, singly would be best. More than likely, you have two males, two females or just a couple that needs a divorce... probably the woman's fault... as usual. :-D Isn't that how the song went "... there's a woman to blame..." I conveniently forget the rest of the lyrics. :-P Remember, although we cannot test for them, hormone levels in a tank will affect the way the fish act. In a tank that is technically overstocked ("a huge pleco" should have 75G for itself), unless you are doing frequent (multiple times a week) PWC's, the hormone levels are building up and likely causing social issues in the fish. In a large enough tank, two males could probably live together, each having their own territory but that isn't possible in your tank, so they fight. If you are going to try and make them work, try increasing the number of 25% PWC's that you do each week which will lower the hormone level so they'll *think* they are in a larger body of water. Also, add some floating plants and other plants in the middle of the tank to separate it into territories. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of nicurns@... Sent: Tuesday, July 21, 2009 9:56 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Fighting Angels Hello all!!!! I have a question regarding angelfish fighting. As I've stated before, we have a 58gal/plus tank that we now house 2 large angels, 2 cory's, a hugh pleco and 3 baby cichlids (1-2cm each). We started with a group of 6 angels that did great for 4 months, then for some unknown reason we started losing one a day over a week span, till we only had 2. Never did we see aggression/fighting of any kind back then and that was over 3-4 months back. However..... our angels are now fighting with one being very rough on the other. I removed the less dominant one to a seperate tank, treated to heal him and he recovered well and fin's looked great. I then re-arranged the tank decor, and placed "him" (??? sex) back into the tank, and yet again here I am again in just a few days. I have read that a group of 3 or more is better, but I fear adding another to be picked on. Any suggestions??? James S.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 42208	From: Donna Ransome	Date: 7/21/2009
Subject: Re: Fighting Angels

What are the 3 baby cichlids you have in the tank? _____ From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of nicurns@... Sent: Tuesday, July 21, 2009 10:56 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Fighting Angels Hello all!!!! I have a question regarding angelfish fighting. As I've stated before, we have a 58gal/plus tank that we now house 2 large angels, 2 cory's, a hugh pleco and 3 baby cichlids (1-2cm each). We started with a group of 6 angels that did great for 4 months, then for some unknown reason we started losing one a day over a week span, till we only had 2. Never did we see aggression/fighting of any kind back then and that was over 3-4 months back. However..... our angels are now fighting with one being very rough on the other. I removed the less dominant one to a seperate tank, treated to heal him and he recovered well and fin's looked great. I then re-arranged the tank decor, and placed "him" (??? sex) back into the tank, and yet again here I am again in just a few days. I have read that a group of 3 or more is better, but I fear adding another to be picked on. Any suggestions??? James S. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 42209	From: nicurns@bellsouth.net	Date: 7/21/2009
Subject: Re: Fighting Angels

Donna, I truly don't know what kind of cichlid fry they are. My daughter was given these from the local PetSmart store while we were in, as they tend to get people they know whom have large tanks or ponds take the babies as they say they cannot sell them, and don't want them to be eaten. From another forum I'm on, one of the poster's who have alot of cichlids have looked at my pics and says they are Orange Zebra's. Yet another stated Yellow Labs!!!! They are really not that colorful at this time, but I can see both orange and yellow in them. We'll see as they grow, as I'm sure I'll need to move them to another tank..... But their just babies still at 1-2cm in length each. Thanks for the interest. James S. --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, Donna Ransome <djransome@...> wrote: > > What are the 3 baby cichlids you have in the tank?

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 42210	From: nicurns@bellsouth.net	Date: 7/21/2009
Subject: Re: Fighting Angels

I don't really feel the bio load is that much for the 58gal plus a 30 gal sum wet/dry filter. With water displacement from the gravel, fake wood and plants (fake & real), I would guess I still have a water volume of 75-80 gallons. I do PWC's at least every other week (10gal), sometime weekly depending on time with life. Feeding is on a timer twice per day with an occasional treat of extra flake or veggies/fruits. I do feel I need to try another angel in the tank, but just concerned my agressive angel will bully the newbie like the other angel tank-mate. I don't know their sexes, but I'm trying to find a match of about the same size as the other two. James S.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 42211	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 7/21/2009
Subject: Re: Fighting Angels

Even at 75-80G, your bioload is heavy... especially presuming the "huge pleco" is a common pleco. They grow to 18"+ and really do need at least 75G of water volume for themselves. Each Angelfish should have 20G+ as a minimum and then the smaller fish are not as much of a demand on the ecology. This amount of water is needed to dilute the fishes waste (urine, ammonia, poo, CO2, hormones) in between PWC's. Although you have a total water volume of 75-80G, you still have the Angelfish in a single tank and Angelfish are still cichlids and can sometimes be quite aggressive as you are seeing. Instead of adding to the bioload, try removing the aggressive Angelfish (into a holding tank, 5G bucket, etc.), then rearranging the plants and decorations to divide the tank and then let the less aggressive fish be alone for a couple of hours, then move the aggressive fish in. Sometimes this will take away from his/her aggressiveness since he/she will perceive themselves as the new fish on the block. Of course, if your sump is heavily planted and your filtration is superior, then that certainly helps with a lot of the waste issues but not with the hormone levels. Only adequate water volume (for dilution) or more frequent and larger PWC's will keep the hormone levels down. Try sticking to a 25% PWC at least once a week and then on the rare occasions when you have to skip one, bump it up to 33% on the next tank maintenance day. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of nicurns@... Sent: Tuesday, July 21, 2009 11:09 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Fighting Angels I don't really feel the bio load is that much for the 58gal plus a 30 gal sum wet/dry filter. With water displacement from the gravel, fake wood and plants (fake & real), I would guess I still have a water volume of 75-80 gallons. I do PWC's at least every other week (10gal), sometime weekly depending on time with life. Feeding is on a timer twice per day with an occasional treat of extra flake or veggies/fruits. I do feel I need to try another angel in the tank, but just concerned my agressive angel will bully the newbie like the other angel tank-mate. I don't know their sexes, but I'm trying to find a match of about the same size as the other two. James S.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 42212	From: Raymond Wetzel	Date: 7/22/2009
Subject: Re: Fighting Angels

Hello James, I'll start with the Pleco, as undoubtedly if you are describing it as "hugh" (and I have no idea what size it is now), it is probably not one of the small Ancistrus species but instead one of the more ciommen ones -- and as Lenny states, it will get to at least 18". You may want to consider re-homing it -- like trading it back to the fish store. Besides its immense size, they can often develop a preference for fish slime taken from slow moving fish such as your Angels (they can latch onto the Angels sides). You could instead get two (or three maximum) albino Ancistrus (the long-fin varieties are nice) if this is the type of catfish you like -- but only get one male; it has the "bushy-nose." Now as for your Angelfish problem -- I notice you've already tried rearranging their tank, so that idea -- as Lenny is suggesting -- won't work trying it again. Know that each Angelfish is different in its behavior, and while it can't be assumed that the aggressive one is a male, it is quite possible (I didn't say "likely"). Could just be that this fish has set up a territory, as male Cichlids will, and a rather large territory at that. Any other male Angel would seem not to be tolerated by this dominant, possible male. Then too your other Angel may be a female which is not compatible with, nor receptive of this possible male's advances. When incompatibility occurs in opposite-sex Cichlids, the more dominant fish -- (and this could also be a female when it comes to equal matching of intents of facing each other's aggressions as part of their mutual acceptance in courtship behavior) -- will attempt to chase the "meeker" one out of its breeder area. In this case, by getting another matching-size Angelfish, it will most probably not change its attitude toward your other present Angelfish. If the new Angelfish is the same sex as this aggressive one, it probably may not tolerate it either if they are both males. If the new Angel is of the opposite sex, and they accept each other (and pair up), your other "meeker" Angelfish is really doomed to being harassed by both of them (the newly formed pair). I see one of two possible short-term (and yet to be tested) solutions, the first one being -- to get rid of the troublemaker aggressive one and try two new Angels with your "meeker" one, or to get one more Angelfish to try with these present two, hoping that the new one will pair up with the aggressive one, and re-homing (trade in at the fish store) the meeker one after that period as it will never be accepted in the same tank that the aggressive one resides in. As Angelfish maturing, you need to expect that eventually they will pair up. At this time, you cannot expect them to tolerate a third Angelfish in the same tank. Even if you were to successful raise the six Angels you started with, you would have seen the pairing off of some. Now depending upon the demeanor of any particular Angelfish or of any pair of them, and as I said they will all behave differently within the confines of Angelfish behavior (and that can vary widely), you can expect them either to all get along or to have constant turmoil with one or more individuals, individuals of pairs or both partners of these pairs (pairs as a whole) toward other Angels they are not paired up with. This being said, there is one other alternative towards having a "happy" community of mature Angelfish, and that is to have all females, and the reason I hadn't brought this up sooner in this reply is the obvious problem of ensuring your getting females only, when I doubt you're able to sex them. Still, it's extremely possible to have a peaceful tank of two or three mated pairs of Angelfish if the tank is large enough; it all depends on their behavior. By "large enough," a 4' tank would be sufficient to house 2 pairs of Angelfish of more mellow behavior, which is why I suspect your aggressive one is more than just claiming a territory but instead trying to chase off one of the opposite sex that it found it will never be compatible with (one that has refused it's advances), as normally domestic Angels won't claim 4' of tank space. Now, in checking my tank manufacturer catalogs, I found nothing on a 58 gallon tank, but I do see them on internet sites at this very moment. I first found a 30" x 24" x 18" tank, said to be a 58 gallon although in checking the math I came out with closer to 56 gallons. Then, I found what has been established as a "58 gallon 'Show' tank" with 36.5" x 18.5" x 21.5" dimensions, and am assuming this is similar to yours (if not, please reply on this); I had previously and probably erroneously thought your tank was 48" long as its volume is even larger than the more popular 55 gallon (4') tank. Since we are taking into consideration here only the footprint/bottom-area, we can eliminate your sump from this equation. Depending upon the demeanor of the fish, while it's still possible to house two pairs of Angelfish in the same 36" long tank (only as far as them getting along, not in regards to their physical needs), it's unlikely that two pairs will cohabitate such a tank peacefully, and all the more reason why an incompatible two Angelfish will find it more difficult to live peacefully in the same tank. For this reason too, of having a 36.5" long tank, you should think of re-homing the common Pleco even more -- and I'll take that back on having up to three Ancistrus if your tank is 36.5" long, when two would be the max along with your other fish. While it's fine to sometimes add your sump volume in for some purposes, it's the actual tank surface area that more often needs to be primarily considered in housing fish. Ray --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "nicurns@..." <james_kristi@...> wrote: > > Hello all!!!! > I have a question regarding angelfish fighting. As I've stated before, we have a 58gal/plus tank that we now house 2 large angels, 2 cory's, a hugh pleco and 3 baby cichlids (1-2cm each). We started with a group of 6 angels that did great for 4 months, then for some unknown reason we started losing one a day over a week span, till we only had 2. Never did we see aggression/fighting of any kind back then and that was over 3-4 months back. However..... our angels are now fighting with one being very rough on the other. I removed the less dominant one to a seperate tank, treated to heal him and he recovered well and fin's looked great. I then re-arranged the tank decor, and placed "him" (??? sex) back into the tank, and yet again here I am again in just a few days. I have read that a group of 3 or more is better, but I fear adding another to be picked on. Any suggestions??? > > James S. >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 42213	From: nicurns@bellsouth.net	Date: 7/22/2009
Subject: Re: Fighting Angels

Thanks Ray. My tank is (L 36.5 x W 18.5 x H 21), 58gal Oceanic. It's not the typical 4 footer. I am planning on placing the pleco in the pond at least till colder weather sets in. I don't know the sex of the angels, but based on one of your previous post, I do feel they may both be males as they have the "hump" on the head. Over the past two days, I have noticed that the "meeker" one is being allowed to eat and not being chased as much, but the fins have been nipped again. I still have the hospital tank set-up, so I'll try placing the aggressor in there for a few weeks. I just don't want to stress him out too much as he is beautiful!!! I'm really not wanting to breed these fish but just like to have more than one of a species together if possible. James S. --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Raymond Wetzel" <sevenspringss@...> wrote: > > Hello James, I'll start with the Pleco, as undoubtedly if you are describing it as "hugh" (and I have no idea what size it is now), it is probably not one of the small Ancistrus species but instead one of the more ciommen ones -- and as Lenny states, it will get to at least 18". You may want to consider re-homing it -- like trading it back to the fish store. Besides its immense size, they can often develop a preference for fish slime taken from slow moving fish such as your Angels (they can latch onto the Angels sides). You could instead get two (or three maximum) albino Ancistrus (the long-fin varieties are nice) if this is the type of catfish you like -- but only get one male; it has the "bushy-nose." > > Now as for your Angelfish problem -- I notice you've already tried rearranging their tank, so that idea -- as Lenny is suggesting -- won't work trying it again. Know that each Angelfish is different in its behavior, and while it can't be assumed that the aggressive one is a male, it is quite possible (I didn't say "likely"). Could just be that this fish has set up a territory, as male Cichlids will, and a rather large territory at that. Any other male Angel would seem not to be tolerated by this dominant, possible male. Then too your other Angel may be a female which is not compatible with, nor receptive of this possible male's advances. When incompatibility occurs in opposite-sex Cichlids, the more dominant fish -- (and this could also be a female when it comes to equal matching of intents of facing each other's aggressions as part of their mutual acceptance in courtship behavior) -- will attempt to chase the "meeker" one out of its breeder area. > > In this case, by getting another matching-size Angelfish, it will most probably not change its attitude toward your other present Angelfish. If the new Angelfish is the same sex as this aggressive one, it probably may not tolerate it either if they are both males. If the new Angel is of the opposite sex, and they accept each other (and pair up), your other "meeker" Angelfish is really doomed to being harassed by both of them (the newly formed pair). > > I see one of two possible short-term (and yet to be tested) solutions, the first one being -- to get rid of the troublemaker aggressive one and try two new Angels with your "meeker" one, or to get one more Angelfish to try with these present two, hoping that the new one will pair up with the aggressive one, and re-homing (trade in at the fish store) the meeker one after that period as it will never be accepted in the same tank that the aggressive one resides in. > > As Angelfish maturing, you need to expect that eventually they will pair up. At this time, you cannot expect them to tolerate a third Angelfish in the same tank. Even if you were to successful raise the six Angels you started with, you would have seen the pairing off of some. Now depending upon the demeanor of any particular Angelfish or of any pair of them, and as I said they will all behave differently within the confines of Angelfish behavior (and that can vary widely), you can expect them either to all get along or to have constant turmoil with one or more individuals, individuals of pairs or both partners of these pairs (pairs as a whole) toward other Angels they are not paired up with. > > This being said, there is one other alternative towards having a "happy" community of mature Angelfish, and that is to have all females, and the reason I hadn't brought this up sooner in this reply is the obvious problem of ensuring your getting females only, when I doubt you're able to sex them. Still, it's extremely possible to have a peaceful tank of two or three mated pairs of Angelfish if the tank is large enough; it all depends on their behavior. By "large enough," a 4' tank would be sufficient to house 2 pairs of Angelfish of more mellow behavior, which is why I suspect your aggressive one is more than just claiming a territory but instead trying to chase off one of the opposite sex that it found it will never be compatible with (one that has refused it's advances), as normally domestic Angels won't claim 4' of tank space. > > Now, in checking my tank manufacturer catalogs, I found nothing on a 58 gallon tank, but I do see them on internet sites at this very moment. I first found a 30" x 24" x 18" tank, said to be a 58 gallon although in checking the math I came out with closer to 56 gallons. Then, I found what has been established as a "58 gallon 'Show' tank" with 36.5" x 18.5" x 21.5" dimensions, and am assuming this is similar to yours (if not, please reply on this); I had previously and probably erroneously thought your tank was 48" long as its volume is even larger than the more popular 55 gallon (4') tank. Since we are taking into consideration here only the footprint/bottom-area, we can eliminate your sump from this equation. Depending upon the demeanor of the fish, while it's still possible to house two pairs of Angelfish in the same 36" long tank (only as far as them getting along, not in regards to their physical needs), it's unlikely that two pairs will cohabitate such a tank peacefully, and all the more reason why an incompatible two Angelfish will find it more difficult to live peacefully in the same tank. > > For this reason too, of having a 36.5" long tank, you should think of re-homing the common Pleco even more -- and I'll take that back on having up to three Ancistrus if your tank is 36.5" long, when two would be the max along with your other fish. While it's fine to sometimes add your sump volume in for some purposes, it's the actual tank surface area that more often needs to be primarily considered in housing fish. Ray > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "nicurns@" <james_kristi@> wrote: > > > > Hello all!!!! > > I have a question regarding angelfish fighting. As I've stated before, we have a 58gal/plus tank that we now house 2 large angels, 2 cory's, a hugh pleco and 3 baby cichlids (1-2cm each). We started with a group of 6 angels that did great for 4 months, then for some unknown reason we started losing one a day over a week span, till we only had 2. Never did we see aggression/fighting of any kind back then and that was over 3-4 months back. However..... our angels are now fighting with one being very rough on the other. I removed the less dominant one to a seperate tank, treated to heal him and he recovered well and fin's looked great. I then re-arranged the tank decor, and placed "him" (??? sex) back into the tank, and yet again here I am again in just a few days. I have read that a group of 3 or more is better, but I fear adding another to be picked on. Any suggestions??? > > > > James S. > > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 42214	From: jett07002	Date: 7/22/2009
Subject: Re: Mail Check?

It's vacation time, Bill. Between vacationing and garden chores guess I haven't been checking in as often. Questions were getting kinda repetitive so I haven't paid too much attention. LOL Have a great summer everyone. joe t

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 42215	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 7/22/2009
Subject: RFIDNews | Chicago's Shedd Aquarium uses RFID for new exhibit

http://www.rfidnews.org/2009/07/22/chicago%E2%80%99s-shedd-aquarium-uses-rfid-for-new-exhibit http://tinyurl.com/lzvt4z From, of all places, a trade publication for RFID tags. \\Steve//

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 42216	From: Dax Gorham	Date: 7/22/2009
Subject: Re: Mail Check?

here!!!! Daniel John Gorham daxgor@... http://www.geocities.com/daxgor --- On Tue, 7/21/09, Amber Berglund <arberglund@...> wrote: From: Amber Berglund <arberglund@...> Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Mail Check? To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Date: Tuesday, July 21, 2009, 10:38 AM   When it gets quiet I have to post just so I know someone is still posting, gotta keep up the quota y'know ;) LOL Amber Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > > > It's been quiet... except for Amber. LOL > > Oh yeah... and \\Steve//. > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com <http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com> > (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right > side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) > > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com > <mailto:AquaticLife %40yahoogroups. com> > [mailto:AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com > <mailto:AquaticLife %40yahoogroups. com>] On > Behalf Of bill 1433 > Sent: Tuesday, July 21, 2009 9:14 AM > To: AquaticLife > Subject: [AquaticLife] Mail Check? > > just checking ------------ ------no mail from here. > > Bill > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 42217	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 7/22/2009
Subject: Re: Mail Check?

Are we doing some sort of roll call? Buuuuueller? ;) Amber Dax Gorham wrote: > > > here!!!! > > Daniel John Gorham > daxgor@... <mailto:daxgor%40yahoo.com> > http://www.geocities.com/daxgor <http://www.geocities.com/daxgor> > > --- On Tue, 7/21/09, Amber Berglund <arberglund@... > <mailto:arberglund%40gmail.com>> wrote: > > From: Amber Berglund <arberglund@... > <mailto:arberglund%40gmail.com>> > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Mail Check? > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Date: Tuesday, July 21, 2009, 10:38 AM > > > > When it gets quiet I have to post just so I know someone is still > posting, gotta keep up the quota y'know ;) LOL > > Amber > > Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > > > > > > It's been quiet... except for Amber. LOL > > > > Oh yeah... and \\Steve//. > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com <http://GoldLenny. > blogspot. com> > > (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right > > side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, > Month) > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com > > <mailto:AquaticLife %40yahoogroups. com> > > [mailto:AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com > > <mailto:AquaticLife %40yahoogroups. com>] On > > Behalf Of bill 1433 > > Sent: Tuesday, July 21, 2009 9:14 AM > > To: AquaticLife > > Subject: [AquaticLife] Mail Check? > > > > just checking ------------ ------no mail from here. > > > > Bill > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 42218	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 7/22/2009
Subject: Re: Mail Check?

Danke Schoen, darling Danke Schoen. Thank you for all the joy and pain. Picture shows, second balcony, was the place we'd meet, second seat, go Dutch treat, you were sweet. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zyCQ6vKqgnU Couldn't find the Matthew Broderick version. :P Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Amber Berglund Sent: Wednesday, July 22, 2009 11:48 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Mail Check? Are we doing some sort of roll call? Buuuuueller? ;) Amber Dax Gorham wrote: > > > here!!!! > > Daniel John Gorham > daxgor@... <mailto:daxgor%40yahoo.com> > http://www.geocities.com/daxgor <http://www.geocities.com/daxgor> > > --- On Tue, 7/21/09, Amber Berglund <arberglund@... > <mailto:arberglund%40gmail.com>> wrote: > > From: Amber Berglund <arberglund@... > <mailto:arberglund%40gmail.com>> > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Mail Check? > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Date: Tuesday, July 21, 2009, 10:38 AM > > > > When it gets quiet I have to post just so I know someone is still > posting, gotta keep up the quota y'know ;) LOL > > Amber > > Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > > > > > > It's been quiet... except for Amber. LOL > > > > Oh yeah... and \\Steve//. > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com <http://GoldLenny. > blogspot. com> > > (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the > > right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by > > Year, > Month) > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com > > <mailto:AquaticLife %40yahoogroups. com> [mailto:AquaticLife@ > > yahoogroups. com <mailto:AquaticLife %40yahoogroups. com>] On Behalf > > Of bill 1433 > > Sent: Tuesday, July 21, 2009 9:14 AM > > To: AquaticLife > > Subject: [AquaticLife] Mail Check? > > > > just checking ------------ ------no mail from here. > > > > Bill

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 42219	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 7/23/2009
Subject: Re: Mail Check?

Took me a few minutes to figure out your ferris beuller quote there, but I finally figured out the lip-synching and since your link was to a video not done by Matthew Broderick it confused me, LOL. Amber Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > > > Danke Schoen, darling Danke Schoen. > Thank you for all the joy and pain. > Picture shows, second balcony, > was the place we'd meet, second seat, go Dutch treat, you were sweet. > http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zyCQ6vKqgnU > <http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zyCQ6vKqgnU> > > Couldn't find the Matthew Broderick version. :P > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right > side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On > Behalf Of Amber Berglund > Sent: Wednesday, July 22, 2009 11:48 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Mail Check? > > Are we doing some sort of roll call? Buuuuueller? ;) > > Amber > > Dax Gorham wrote: > > > > > > here!!!! > > > > Daniel John Gorham > > daxgor@... <mailto:daxgor%40yahoo.com> > <mailto:daxgor%40yahoo.com> > > http://www.geocities.com/daxgor <http://www.geocities.com/daxgor> > <http://www.geocities.com/daxgor <http://www.geocities.com/daxgor>> > > > > --- On Tue, 7/21/09, Amber Berglund <arberglund@... > <mailto:arberglund%40gmail.com> > > <mailto:arberglund%40gmail.com>> wrote: > > > > From: Amber Berglund <arberglund@... > <mailto:arberglund%40gmail.com> > > <mailto:arberglund%40gmail.com>> > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Mail Check? > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > Date: Tuesday, July 21, 2009, 10:38 AM > > > > > > > > When it gets quiet I have to post just so I know someone is still > > posting, gotta keep up the quota y'know ;) LOL > > > > Amber > > > > Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > > > > > > > > > It's been quiet... except for Amber. LOL > > > > > > Oh yeah... and \\Steve//. > > > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com <http://GoldLenny. > > blogspot. com> > > > (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the > > > right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by > > > Year, > > Month) > > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > From: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com > > > <mailto:AquaticLife %40yahoogroups. com> [mailto:AquaticLife@ > > > yahoogroups. com <mailto:AquaticLife %40yahoogroups. com>] On Behalf > > > Of bill 1433 > > > Sent: Tuesday, July 21, 2009 9:14 AM > > > To: AquaticLife > > > Subject: [AquaticLife] Mail Check? > > > > > > just checking ------------ ------no mail from here. > > > > > > Bill > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 42220	From: terry	Date: 7/23/2009
Subject: Glad to be here.

Thank you for letting me join in on this group. Im very excited. Cant wait to look,read and post aquarium related subjects. Thnx again! Terry

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 42221	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 7/23/2009
Subject: Re: Mail Check?

You don't remember him on the float singing? He did a couple of songs including The Beatles' Twist And Shout. LOL I guess since I come from German heritage (thus the last name), the Danke Schoen song popped into my head... but I like The Beatles too! I said "Couldn't find the Matthew Broderick version. :P" BTW... Danke Schön (with an umlaut over the "o".. which is like a sideways colon.. lol) means Thank You. BTW2... in high school, my German teacher was a Chinese-American lady named Frau Ching. How's that for multiculturalism. LOL Gutten nacht Frau Amber. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Amber Berglund Sent: Thursday, July 23, 2009 2:08 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Mail Check? Took me a few minutes to figure out your ferris beuller quote there, but I finally figured out the lip-synching and since your link was to a video not done by Matthew Broderick it confused me, LOL. Amber Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > > > Danke Schoen, darling Danke Schoen. > Thank you for all the joy and pain. > Picture shows, second balcony, > was the place we'd meet, second seat, go Dutch treat, you were sweet. > http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zyCQ6vKqgnU > <http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zyCQ6vKqgnU> > > Couldn't find the Matthew Broderick version. :P > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> (Links to any articles referenced in > above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels > and also under Archives by Year, Month) > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On Behalf Of Amber Berglund > Sent: Wednesday, July 22, 2009 11:48 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Mail Check? > > Are we doing some sort of roll call? Buuuuueller? ;) > > Amber > > Dax Gorham wrote: > > > > > > here!!!! > > > > Daniel John Gorham > > daxgor@... <mailto:daxgor%40yahoo.com> > <mailto:daxgor%40yahoo.com> > > http://www.geocities.com/daxgor <http://www.geocities.com/daxgor> > <http://www.geocities.com/daxgor <http://www.geocities.com/daxgor>> > > > > --- On Tue, 7/21/09, Amber Berglund <arberglund@... > <mailto:arberglund%40gmail.com> > > <mailto:arberglund%40gmail.com>> wrote: > > > > From: Amber Berglund <arberglund@... > <mailto:arberglund%40gmail.com> > > <mailto:arberglund%40gmail.com>> > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Mail Check? > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > Date: Tuesday, July 21, 2009, 10:38 AM > > > > > > > > When it gets quiet I have to post just so I know someone is still > > posting, gotta keep up the quota y'know ;) LOL > > > > Amber > > > > Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > > > > > > > > > It's been quiet... except for Amber. LOL > > > > > > Oh yeah... and \\Steve//. > > > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com <http://GoldLenny. > > blogspot. com> > > > (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the > > > right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by > > > Year, > > Month) > > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > From: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com <mailto:AquaticLife > > > %40yahoogroups. com> [mailto:AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com > > > <mailto:AquaticLife %40yahoogroups. com>] On Behalf Of bill 1433 > > > Sent: Tuesday, July 21, 2009 9:14 AM > > > To: AquaticLife > > > Subject: [AquaticLife] Mail Check? > > > > > > just checking ------------ ------no mail from here. > > > > > > Bill

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 42222	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 7/23/2009
Subject: Re: Glad to be here.

Welcome to the group... now explain your email address. ;-) I read it as "I nail squares". <G> Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of terry Sent: Thursday, July 23, 2009 1:34 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Glad to be here. Thank you for letting me join in on this group. Im very excited. Cant wait to look,read and post aquarium related subjects. Thnx again! Terry

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 42223	From: Marion Hogervorst	Date: 7/23/2009
Subject: Re: RFIDNews | Chicago's Shedd Aquarium uses RFID for new exhibit

2009/7/23 Steve Szabo <steve@...> > > http://www.rfidnews.org/2009/07/22/chicago%E2%80%99s-shedd-aquarium-uses-rfid-for-new-exhibit > http://tinyurl.com/lzvt4z > > From, of all places, a trade publication for RFID tags. > > \\Steve// > I put it in my twitter. We have RFID in our library too and some librarians who know this way of using RFID very well are following me on twitter. They would love to read it, thnx! -- Dagdag! Marion Keep your fingers crossed. Maybe I'll have my new fishtank next sunday. With 25+ neon tetra's; 2 corydora's and maybe a pleco. I'll keep you posted and then I will tatally come out of Lurkywood ;) *** "Creativity is allowing yourself to make mistakes. Art is knowing which ones to keep.� �SCOTT ADAMS, THE DILBERT PRINCIPLE TwitterID: tattoocats Weblog: http://booksandfiber.blogspot.com/ My pictures/ mijn foto's: http://www.flickr.com/photos/marretje/ XXX-stitch: http://community.webshots.com/user/Heksenketel [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 42224	From: Lisa	Date: 7/23/2009
Subject: Dalation Mollies

I recently aquired 2 of them, and i have fell insatntly in love, so i'm thinking of converting my tank to a dalmation molly tank, bar my abiino catfish. My questoion ia...how easy are they to breed being livebarers? And are that adults likely to eat the babies? Thanks Lisa

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 42225	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 7/23/2009
Subject: Re: Dalation Mollies

For most folks, it's impossible NOT to breed livebearers. ;-) Yes, the adults can/will eat the babies but that is a natural part of population control, otherwise you could easily end up with a severely overstocked tank within a couple of months. Having a lot of floating/bushy plants will give the fry places to hide and a better chance of survival. If you wanted to save the babies and cull them yourself, you could move the pregnant mommy to a separate tank and into a Birthing Chamber where the fry would be able to swim through small slits/holes to get away from the mom and then after she has recovered from the birthing process, you could move her back to the main tank to get pregnant again. ;-) I forget what kind of catfish you have again. You should really refer to "catfish" as a type of fish as there are literally thousands of species that range in size from 1" to over SIX FEET long that are commonly sold in pet stores so it's best to at least generalize to the Genus (such as Corydoras, Ancistrus, etc.) so we'll have an idea of which kind of catfish you are talking about. If you have mostly bottom dwelling catfish, then they should not cause a problem to your livebearers as long as they can handle the harder and saltier water that livebearers prefer. Many catfish do not like this type of water but some do so that is another reason why knowing the species would be important. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Lisa Sent: Thursday, July 23, 2009 3:40 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Dalation Mollies I recently aquired 2 of them, and i have fell insatntly in love, so i'm thinking of converting my tank to a dalmation molly tank, bar my abiino catfish. My questoion ia...how easy are they to breed being livebarers? And are that adults likely to eat the babies? Thanks Lisa

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 42226	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 7/23/2009
Subject: yummy Downoi

So apparently something in my tank likes the taste of Downoi, my bet is on the BN pleco's ;) LOL. Anyone else want to place bets? There's also Mystery snails in there too, but I haven't even seen them on the Downoi, but nor have I seen the pleco's on them, but today they are half eaten ;) LOL Amber

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 42227	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 7/23/2009
Subject: Re: yummy Downoi

What is Downoi? NM... Google answered. ;-) http://www.plantedtank.net/forums/myplants/104-Downoi_Pogostemon_helferi.htm l The pic on that page shows a fish nibbling on it. Looks like fancy lettuce. ;-) Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Amber Berglund Sent: Thursday, July 23, 2009 1:41 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] yummy Downoi So apparently something in my tank likes the taste of Downoi, my bet is on the BN pleco's ;) LOL. Anyone else want to place bets? There's also Mystery snails in there too, but I haven't even seen them on the Downoi, but nor have I seen the pleco's on them, but today they are half eaten ;) LOL Amber

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 42228	From: nicurns@bellsouth.net	Date: 7/23/2009
Subject: Re: Dalation Mollies

Just put them together and get ready. Mollies are great little fish and are prolific breeders but will eat the babies if given a chance. Mollies do like salt in the water, and do better to ward off diseases and rearing of fry. When I kept a reef tank, I used Sailfin's in the tank from algae control and this was fully saltwater. I acclimated them slowly, and they did great and produced many many fry. We a great food source for my other fish, but some always seemed to survive. Of the easiest livebarers, I personally feel the platy ranks number one on ease of keeping, breeding, and rearing of fry. But just my opinion. James S. --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Lisa" <lisa_lawless2004@...> wrote: > > I recently aquired 2 of them, and i have fell insatntly in love, so i'm thinking of converting my tank to a dalmation molly tank, bar my abiino catfish. > > My questoion ia...how easy are they to breed being livebarers? > And are that adults likely to eat the babies? > > Thanks > Lisa >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 42229	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 7/23/2009
Subject: Re: yummy Downoi

Crinkly lettuce I guess ;) It's from Thailand I believe, or somewhere near there. Needs lots of light so I put it in my 55 gallon high lighted tank, and it did fine for about a week until "something" found out how yummy it is ;) LOL. Amber Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > > > What is Downoi? > > NM... Google answered. ;-) > http://www.plantedtank.net/forums/myplants/104-Downoi_Pogostemon_helferi.htm > <http://www.plantedtank.net/forums/myplants/104-Downoi_Pogostemon_helferi.htm> > l > > The pic on that page shows a fish nibbling on it. Looks like fancy > lettuce. > ;-) > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right > side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) > > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On > Behalf Of Amber Berglund > Sent: Thursday, July 23, 2009 1:41 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Subject: [AquaticLife] yummy Downoi > > So apparently something in my tank likes the taste of Downoi, my bet is on > the BN pleco's ;) LOL. > Anyone else want to place bets? > There's also Mystery snails in there too, but I haven't even seen them on > the Downoi, but nor have I seen the pleco's on them, but today they > are half > eaten ;) LOL > > Amber > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 42230	From: Lisa Lawless	Date: 7/23/2009
Subject: Re; Dalmation mollies

Sorry Lenny lol, thought i had mentioned which one i had. He's an albino bristlenose. About 3 inches long now, and quite a beefy boy too ;) He's lovely   Lisa   ____________________________________________________________________________________ Access Yahoo!7 Mail on your mobile. Anytime. Anywhere. Show me how: http://au.mobile.yahoo.com/mail [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 42231	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 7/23/2009
Subject: Re: Re; Dalmation mollies

Yes she has a BN pleco, for future reference if you call your "catfish" by that name everyone will know what you mean Lisa ;) LOL Don't plant any Downoi ;) unless you want to feed it to your pleco ;) Mollies are not as easy to keep alive (in my experience) as other live bearers. I tend to kill them, so I don't keep them, LOL. I hope you have better luck than I ever have with Mollies, they are cute. I would agree with whomever stated that Platy's are the easiest live bearers to keep, they breed like crazy, you'll be giving them away to everyone you know ;) LOL Oh and don't get all one color cuz you'll have a tank full of (for instance) orange ;) hehe. Guppy's are nice and hardy I prefer them over all the live bearers myself, but platy's are cute and fun, and almost Molly like ;) LOL. If you have bad luck keeping your Mollies alive you might try Platties instead, or Guppies. Molly's can get big (I think some get up to 5 inches, most are around 3 1/2 or so), so make sure you have room for them to have babies in your tank if that's a goal. They also can have HUGE amounts of babies (maybe cuz they're bigger, LOL). Platy's can have some pretty good sized batches of babies too though, but I have heard/read that Mollies have the most babies of all live bearers and the babies are bigger than other live bearer fry so they tend to live and don't have to hide as much as other live bearer fry do. Hope all this helps, Amber Lisa Lawless wrote: > > > Sorry Lenny lol, thought i had mentioned which one i had. > He's an albino bristlenose. About 3 inches long now, and quite a beefy > boy too ;) He's lovely > > Lisa > > > > __________________________________________________________ > Access Yahoo!7 Mail on your mobile. Anytime. Anywhere. > Show me how: http://au.mobile.yahoo.com/mail > <http://au.mobile.yahoo.com/mail> > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 42232	From: biG poppa	Date: 7/23/2009
Subject: Re: Re; Dalmation mollies

they say that about sword tail breading but in my case i had not luck in breading sword tails i have a red velvet pair.... --- On Thu, 7/23/09, Amber Berglund <arberglund@...> wrote: From: Amber Berglund <arberglund@...> Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re; Dalmation mollies To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Date: Thursday, July 23, 2009, 8:06 PM   Yes she has a BN pleco, for future reference if you call your "catfish" by that name everyone will know what you mean Lisa ;) LOL Don't plant any Downoi ;) unless you want to feed it to your pleco ;) Mollies are not as easy to keep alive (in my experience) as other live bearers. I tend to kill them, so I don't keep them, LOL. I hope you have better luck than I ever have with Mollies, they are cute. I would agree with whomever stated that Platy's are the easiest live bearers to keep, they breed like crazy, you'll be giving them away to everyone you know ;) LOL Oh and don't get all one color cuz you'll have a tank full of (for instance) orange ;) hehe. Guppy's are nice and hardy I prefer them over all the live bearers myself, but platy's are cute and fun, and almost Molly like ;) LOL. If you have bad luck keeping your Mollies alive you might try Platties instead, or Guppies. Molly's can get big (I think some get up to 5 inches, most are around 3 1/2 or so), so make sure you have room for them to have babies in your tank if that's a goal. They also can have HUGE amounts of babies (maybe cuz they're bigger, LOL). Platy's can have some pretty good sized batches of babies too though, but I have heard/read that Mollies have the most babies of all live bearers and the babies are bigger than other live bearer fry so they tend to live and don't have to hide as much as other live bearer fry do. Hope all this helps, Amber Lisa Lawless wrote: > > > Sorry Lenny lol, thought i had mentioned which one i had. > He's an albino bristlenose. About 3 inches long now, and quite a beefy > boy too ;) He's lovely > > Lisa > > > > ____________ _________ _________ _________ _________ _________ _ > Access Yahoo!7 Mail on your mobile. Anytime. Anywhere. > Show me how: http://au.mobile yahoo.com/ mail > <http://au.mobile yahoo.com/ mail> > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 42233	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 7/23/2009
Subject: Re: yummy Downoi

If you read the link I provided, you'll see comments from several fish keepers talking about how their various fish munch on this plant. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Amber Berglund Sent: Thursday, July 23, 2009 6:28 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] yummy Downoi Crinkly lettuce I guess ;) It's from Thailand I believe, or somewhere near there. Needs lots of light so I put it in my 55 gallon high lighted tank, and it did fine for about a week until "something" found out how yummy it is ;) LOL. Amber Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > > > What is Downoi? > > NM... Google answered. ;-) > http://www.plantedtank.net/forums/myplants/104-Downoi_Pogostemon_helferi.htm l > > The pic on that page shows a fish nibbling on it. Looks like fancy > lettuce. > ;-) > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> (Links to any articles referenced in > above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels > and also under Archives by Year, Month) > > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On Behalf Of Amber Berglund > Sent: Thursday, July 23, 2009 1:41 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Subject: [AquaticLife] yummy Downoi > > So apparently something in my tank likes the taste of Downoi, my bet > is on the BN pleco's ;) LOL. > Anyone else want to place bets? > There's also Mystery snails in there too, but I haven't even seen them > on the Downoi, but nor have I seen the pleco's on them, but today they > are half eaten ;) LOL > > Amber

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 42234	From: Dora Smith	Date: 7/23/2009
Subject: Nathaniel the Fish prefers Ocean Nutrition betta pellets to Hikari

A while ago we had a discussion of what sort of pellets a betta will eat, and the consensus was they'll eat only Hikari gold pellets. It got too hot for mosquito larva to grow in my algae rock garden that I keep for the otos, and feeding frozen worms is problematic, so I went to get Nathaniel some Hikari pellets. They had Ocean nutrition Atison's betta food beside it. Ocean nutrition is known to be very nutritious, though my fish uniformly eat a minimal amount of it. It isn't as tasty. Nathaniel begs to disagree. He ate the Ocean nutrition pellets quickly, if not as happily as he eats frozen worms and healthy live mosquito larvae. When I feed him Hikari pellets, he looks at them, and then looks at me steadily, like, you want me to eat what? Then eventually he eats them. To me, the Ocean Nutrition pellets taste meatier. By the way, how many pellets do I feed a day? The Ocean Nutrition pellets say 7 pellets once or twice a day (which), and the Hikari pellets, which are a bit bigger, say 2 pellets three times a day. It is easier to feed him pellets, and of course, Nathaniel lives on my desk. Yours, Dora Smith Austin, TX tiggernut24@...

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 42235	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 7/23/2009
Subject: Re: yummy Downoi

Yup... and now I "had" downoi ;) Good thing I took pictures to prove it, you couldn't tell I planted it last week if you looked in the tank today ;) Something ate all of it, today... LOL. Of course while I wasn't watching... Oh hey off topic on this thread but a question while I'm typing. How safe are the "in tank" UV filters for fry/shrimp/snails? They don't seem to have anything covering the slots where the intake is... http://www.marinedepot.com/ps_AquariumPage~PageAlias~uv_ultraviolet_sterilizers_ozonizers_jbj_submariner.html Amber Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > > > If you read the link I provided, you'll see comments from several fish > keepers talking about how their various fish munch on this plant. > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right > side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) > > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On > Behalf Of Amber Berglund > Sent: Thursday, July 23, 2009 6:28 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] yummy Downoi > > Crinkly lettuce I guess ;) It's from Thailand I believe, or somewhere near > there. Needs lots of light so I put it in my 55 gallon high lighted tank, > and it did fine for about a week until "something" found out how yummy > it is > ;) LOL. > > Amber > > Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > > > > > > What is Downoi? > > > > NM... Google answered. ;-) > > > http://www.plantedtank.net/forums/myplants/104-Downoi_Pogostemon_helferi.htm > <http://www.plantedtank.net/forums/myplants/104-Downoi_Pogostemon_helferi.htm> > l > > > > > The pic on that page shows a fish nibbling on it. Looks like fancy > > lettuce. > > ;-) > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>> > (Links to any articles referenced in > > above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels > > and also under Archives by Year, Month) > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On Behalf Of Amber Berglund > > Sent: Thursday, July 23, 2009 1:41 PM > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > Subject: [AquaticLife] yummy Downoi > > > > So apparently something in my tank likes the taste of Downoi, my bet > > is on the BN pleco's ;) LOL. > > Anyone else want to place bets? > > There's also Mystery snails in there too, but I haven't even seen them > > on the Downoi, but nor have I seen the pleco's on them, but today they > > are half eaten ;) LOL > > > > Amber > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 42236	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 7/23/2009
Subject: Re: yummy Downoi

They should at least have a sponge filter over the intake or you could make a "bag" out of floss padding. You could also just pull up a nylon footie up over the unit. Anything small enough to make it into the UV sterilizer will likely come out cooked.... or with a really good suntan.... BUT... I'm not sure if it was this forum or another... I think this one with maybe Lisa from Australia as the original poster... where we talked about the upsides and downsides of using UV sterilization. IMO, they should really only be used for the treatment of disease issues, otherwise they will kill all of the microbiological life forms in the water column.. many of which feed newborn fry, shrimp, etc. If you wanted one to have handy to run on a tank that might have an Ich outbreak or something like that, it would be OK but I wouldn't buy one with plans on running it all the time. I spend a lot of time in various pond forums trying to explain to folks why UV filtration is NOT good for their ponds (except for the above mentioned reasons) but the sellers of these things have convinced folks that UV will kill the green water algae... without telling the folks that their water quality will only get so much worse once they kill all the algae that is helping to filter the water of excess nutrients. Some people would rather have crystal clear water without regard to the pollutants in the water that is harming their fish both short-term and long-term. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Amber Berglund Sent: Friday, July 24, 2009 12:10 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] yummy Downoi Yup... and now I "had" downoi ;) Good thing I took pictures to prove it, you couldn't tell I planted it last week if you looked in the tank today ;) Something ate all of it, today... LOL. Of course while I wasn't watching... Oh hey off topic on this thread but a question while I'm typing. How safe are the "in tank" UV filters for fry/shrimp/snails? They don't seem to have anything covering the slots where the intake is... http://www.marinedepot.com/ps_AquariumPage~PageAlias~uv_ultraviolet_steriliz ers_ozonizers_jbj_submariner.html Amber Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > > > If you read the link I provided, you'll see comments from several fish > keepers talking about how their various fish munch on this plant. > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> (Links to any articles referenced in > above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels > and also under Archives by Year, Month) > > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On Behalf Of Amber Berglund > Sent: Thursday, July 23, 2009 6:28 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] yummy Downoi > > Crinkly lettuce I guess ;) It's from Thailand I believe, or somewhere > near there. Needs lots of light so I put it in my 55 gallon high > lighted tank, and it did fine for about a week until "something" found > out how yummy it is > ;) LOL. > > Amber > > Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > > > > > > What is Downoi? > > > > NM... Google answered. ;-) > > > http://www.plantedtank.net/forums/myplants/104-Downoi_Pogostemon_helfe > ri.htm > <http://www.plantedtank.net/forums/myplants/104-Downoi_Pogostemon_helf > eri.htm> > l > > > > > The pic on that page shows a fish nibbling on it. Looks like fancy > > lettuce. > > ;-) > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>> > (Links to any articles referenced in > > above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under > > Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On Behalf Of Amber Berglund > > Sent: Thursday, July 23, 2009 1:41 PM > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > Subject: [AquaticLife] yummy Downoi > > > > So apparently something in my tank likes the taste of Downoi, my bet > > is on the BN pleco's ;) LOL. > > Anyone else want to place bets? > > There's also Mystery snails in there too, but I haven't even seen > > them on the Downoi, but nor have I seen the pleco's on them, but > > today they are half eaten ;) LOL > > > > Amber

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 42237	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 7/23/2009
Subject: Re: yummy Downoi

I mostly just wanted a portable UV filter, the one I have is only hooked up to the Eheim and I'd have to move the whole canister filter to move the UV filter. Amber Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > > > They should at least have a sponge filter over the intake or you could > make > a "bag" out of floss padding. You could also just pull up a nylon > footie up > over the unit. Anything small enough to make it into the UV sterilizer > will > likely come out cooked.... or with a really good suntan.... > > BUT... > > I'm not sure if it was this forum or another... I think this one with > maybe > Lisa from Australia as the original poster... where we talked about the > upsides and downsides of using UV sterilization. IMO, they should really > only be used for the treatment of disease issues, otherwise they will kill > all of the microbiological life forms in the water column.. many of which > feed newborn fry, shrimp, etc. If you wanted one to have handy to run on a > tank that might have an Ich outbreak or something like that, it would > be OK > but I wouldn't buy one with plans on running it all the time. > > I spend a lot of time in various pond forums trying to explain to > folks why > UV filtration is NOT good for their ponds (except for the above mentioned > reasons) but the sellers of these things have convinced folks that UV will > kill the green water algae... without telling the folks that their water > quality will only get so much worse once they kill all the algae that is > helping to filter the water of excess nutrients. Some people would rather > have crystal clear water without regard to the pollutants in the water > that > is harming their fish both short-term and long-term. > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right > side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On > Behalf Of Amber Berglund > Sent: Friday, July 24, 2009 12:10 AM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] yummy Downoi > > Yup... and now I "had" downoi ;) Good thing I took pictures to prove > it, you > couldn't tell I planted it last week if you looked in the tank today ;) > Something ate all of it, today... LOL. Of course while I wasn't > watching... > > Oh hey off topic on this thread but a question while I'm typing. > How safe are the "in tank" UV filters for fry/shrimp/snails? They > don't seem > to have anything covering the slots where the intake is... > http://www.marinedepot.com/ps_AquariumPage~PageAlias~uv_ultraviolet_steriliz > <http://www.marinedepot.com/ps_AquariumPage%7EPageAlias%7Euv_ultraviolet_steriliz> > ers_ozonizers_jbj_submariner.html > > Amber > > Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > > > > > > If you read the link I provided, you'll see comments from several fish > > keepers talking about how their various fish munch on this plant. > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>> > (Links to any articles referenced in > > above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels > > and also under Archives by Year, Month) > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On Behalf Of Amber Berglund > > Sent: Thursday, July 23, 2009 6:28 PM > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] yummy Downoi > > > > Crinkly lettuce I guess ;) It's from Thailand I believe, or somewhere > > near there. Needs lots of light so I put it in my 55 gallon high > > lighted tank, and it did fine for about a week until "something" found > > out how yummy it is > > ;) LOL. > > > > Amber > > > > Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > > > > > > > > > What is Downoi? > > > > > > NM... Google answered. ;-) > > > > > > http://www.plantedtank.net/forums/myplants/104-Downoi_Pogostemon_helfe > <http://www.plantedtank.net/forums/myplants/104-Downoi_Pogostemon_helfe> > > ri.htm > > > <http://www.plantedtank.net/forums/myplants/104-Downoi_Pogostemon_helf > <http://www.plantedtank.net/forums/myplants/104-Downoi_Pogostemon_helf> > > eri.htm> > > l > > > > > > > > The pic on that page shows a fish nibbling on it. Looks like fancy > > > lettuce. > > > ;-) > > > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>> > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>>> > > (Links to any articles referenced in > > > above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under > > > Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) > > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On Behalf Of Amber Berglund > > > Sent: Thursday, July 23, 2009 1:41 PM > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > Subject: [AquaticLife] yummy Downoi > > > > > > So apparently something in my tank likes the taste of Downoi, my bet > > > is on the BN pleco's ;) LOL. > > > Anyone else want to place bets? > > > There's also Mystery snails in there too, but I haven't even seen > > > them on the Downoi, but nor have I seen the pleco's on them, but > > > today they are half eaten ;) LOL > > > > > > Amber > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 42238	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 7/24/2009
Subject: Re: yummy Downoi

You'd be better off making your existing one portable using a powerhead with a section of hose connected to the UV filter intake and then a return section of hose from the UV that flows back into the tank. You would want a slow speed powerhead. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Amber Berglund Sent: Friday, July 24, 2009 12:41 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] yummy Downoi I mostly just wanted a portable UV filter, the one I have is only hooked up to the Eheim and I'd have to move the whole canister filter to move the UV filter. Amber Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > > > They should at least have a sponge filter over the intake or you could > make a "bag" out of floss padding. You could also just pull up a nylon > footie up over the unit. Anything small enough to make it into the UV > sterilizer will likely come out cooked.... or with a really good > suntan.... > > BUT... > > I'm not sure if it was this forum or another... I think this one with > maybe Lisa from Australia as the original poster... where we talked > about the upsides and downsides of using UV sterilization. IMO, they > should really only be used for the treatment of disease issues, > otherwise they will kill all of the microbiological life forms in the > water column.. many of which feed newborn fry, shrimp, etc. If you > wanted one to have handy to run on a tank that might have an Ich > outbreak or something like that, it would be OK but I wouldn't buy one > with plans on running it all the time. > > I spend a lot of time in various pond forums trying to explain to > folks why UV filtration is NOT good for their ponds (except for the > above mentioned > reasons) but the sellers of these things have convinced folks that UV > will kill the green water algae... without telling the folks that > their water quality will only get so much worse once they kill all the > algae that is helping to filter the water of excess nutrients. Some > people would rather have crystal clear water without regard to the > pollutants in the water that is harming their fish both short-term and > long-term. > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> (Links to any articles referenced in > above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels > and also under Archives by Year, Month) > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On Behalf Of Amber Berglund > Sent: Friday, July 24, 2009 12:10 AM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] yummy Downoi > > Yup... and now I "had" downoi ;) Good thing I took pictures to prove > it, you couldn't tell I planted it last week if you looked in the tank > today ;) Something ate all of it, today... LOL. Of course while I > wasn't watching... > > Oh hey off topic on this thread but a question while I'm typing. > How safe are the "in tank" UV filters for fry/shrimp/snails? They > don't seem to have anything covering the slots where the intake is... > http://www.marinedepot.com/ps_AquariumPage~PageAlias~uv_ultraviolet_st > eriliz > <http://www.marinedepot.com/ps_AquariumPage%7EPageAlias%7Euv_ultraviol > et_steriliz> > ers_ozonizers_jbj_submariner.html > > Amber > > Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > > > > > > If you read the link I provided, you'll see comments from several > > fish keepers talking about how their various fish munch on this plant. > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>> > (Links to any articles referenced in > > above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under > > Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On Behalf Of Amber Berglund > > Sent: Thursday, July 23, 2009 6:28 PM > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] yummy Downoi > > > > Crinkly lettuce I guess ;) It's from Thailand I believe, or > > somewhere near there. Needs lots of light so I put it in my 55 > > gallon high lighted tank, and it did fine for about a week until > > "something" found out how yummy it is > > ;) LOL. > > > > Amber > > > > Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > > > > > > > > > What is Downoi? > > > > > > NM... Google answered. ;-) > > > > > > http://www.plantedtank.net/forums/myplants/104-Downoi_Pogostemon_helfe > <http://www.plantedtank.net/forums/myplants/104-Downoi_Pogostemon_helf > e> > > ri.htm > > > <http://www.plantedtank.net/forums/myplants/104-Downoi_Pogostemon_helf > <http://www.plantedtank.net/forums/myplants/104-Downoi_Pogostemon_helf > > > > eri.htm> > > l > > > > > > > > The pic on that page shows a fish nibbling on it. Looks like fancy > > > lettuce. > > > ;-) > > > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>> > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>>> > > (Links to any articles referenced in > > > above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under > > > Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) > > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On Behalf Of Amber > > > Berglund > > > Sent: Thursday, July 23, 2009 1:41 PM > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > Subject: [AquaticLife] yummy Downoi > > > > > > So apparently something in my tank likes the taste of Downoi, my > > > bet is on the BN pleco's ;) LOL. > > > Anyone else want to place bets? > > > There's also Mystery snails in there too, but I haven't even seen > > > them on the Downoi, but nor have I seen the pleco's on them, but > > > today they are half eaten ;) LOL > > > > > > Amber > > ------------------------------------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the home page. Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com to receive the digest, which includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com for the No E-Mail option where you will still be able to read messages on the group and post replies. Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com to receive individual e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 42239	From: Lisa	Date: 7/24/2009
Subject: Catfish age

Alright. I have a bn catfish, albino, male, aprox 3 inches in lenght from nose to tip Is there any sure way of telling roughly what age he is? Ive had him for about 4 - 5 months, and since then he has grown quite a bit. Lisa

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 42240	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 7/24/2009
Subject: Re: Catfish age

Pam might be able to guess an age, she breeds them. I'd have to guess he's probably near a year old, maybe a little less. Mine is about 2 inches and around 6 months old according to Pam. Amber Lisa wrote: > > > Alright. I have a bn catfish, albino, male, aprox 3 inches in lenght > from nose to tip > Is there any sure way of telling roughly what age he is? > Ive had him for about 4 - 5 months, and since then he has grown quite > a bit. > > Lisa > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 42241	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 7/24/2009
Subject: Re: Catfish age

Based on my research for my blog "How Long SHOULD Aquarium Fish Live? (An Expected Lifespan Guide For Fish Keepers)", http://goldlenny.blogspot.com/2007/02/how-long-should-aquarium-fish-live.htm l, BN Plecos *should* live as long as 20 years. Many, if not most catfish, are slow growers and will grow throughout a long part of their life, although the majority of any fishes growth will still be in the first few months to a year. Since yours is growing rapidly and is only 3" long, you can presume it's still under a year old. BN Plecos should grow to around 6" long, if they do not get stunted. Since yours is still growing rapidly, it's even more important to stick to a frequent and regular PWC schedule to remove/dilute the hormone levels which are a big cause of stunting and its related health issues. How big was it when you got it? A 1/2", an inch, or ??? Pam from this group breeds BN Plecos and could probably give you a better idea of its age range based on the size when you first got it and then you would know more precisely. Of course, it could have been partially stunted when you got it, if it was crammed into a tank with a lot of other growing fish and then when you moved it into your tank, which might be better maintained, it started growing quickly again. For example, this happened to me when, in July 2005, I adopted/rescued what turned out to be a *Common Pleco* (mine ended up being a Liposarcus pardalis which should grow to over 18") that had been living in a 10G tank with a bunch of other fish for its first two years. After 2 years in the 10G tank, this L. pardalis was only around 4" long (severely stunted). I moved it into my 65G tank as a temporary home while I was planning for a much larger tank (then Katrina hit us) and in the 18 months that I kept it in the 65G tank, it grew 6" to where it was 10" long. At that point, since I was not going to be able to get any larger tanks, I rehomed the guy to my LFS and he was sold the next day to someone with a BIG Cichlid tank. I hope he's growing even more and doing well. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Lisa Sent: Friday, July 24, 2009 7:10 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Catfish age Alright. I have a bn catfish, albino, male, aprox 3 inches in lenght from nose to tip Is there any sure way of telling roughly what age he is? Ive had him for about 4 - 5 months, and since then he has grown quite a bit. Lisa

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 42242	From: gail	Date: 7/24/2009
Subject: Snail behaviors

So, I have a few Mystery snails. I recently moved my black & my gold mystery snails to my 10 gallon, and the black one is thriving. He cruises around all big and bold. However, last night I noticed the black one was all over the gold one, and the gold one wasn't fully out of it's shell - but it's trap door (or foot) was open. Is this a strange mating ritual? The gold, one seems kind of shy, and hasn't been cruising around the tank like the more bold, black one. Any ideas on this behavior? Thanks Gail [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 42243	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 7/24/2009
Subject: Re: Snail behaviors

The male will stick his "parts" inside of the other snails shell from what I've read on applesnail.net (check there if you ever have any concerns on your snails they cover a lot of info). It could be mating, or socializing somehow, just make sure they aren't eating the other snail ;) LOL. I don't think that happens very often and usually it's with a sick/dieing snail I think. Mine climb all over each other if one happens to be in the way when they're heading that direction, they just go over rather than around ;) LOL. Also what temp do you keep your tank at and how high is your pH and hardness levels? Snails need harder water to keep their shells from turning soft and getting pockets/holes in them, so you might have to add calcium to the tank for them. Amber gail wrote: > > > So, I have a few Mystery snails. I recently moved my black & my gold > mystery snails to my 10 gallon, and the black one is thriving. He > cruises around all big and bold. However, last night I noticed the > black one was all over the gold one, and the gold one wasn't fully out > of it's shell - but it's trap door (or foot) was open. Is this a > strange mating ritual? The gold, one seems kind of shy, and hasn't > been cruising around the tank like the more bold, black one. > Any ideas on this behavior? > > Thanks > > Gail > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 42244	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 7/24/2009
Subject: Re: Snail behaviors

Oh and speaking of snails... Does a lot of snail poop in the water column cause a tank to turn cloudy? I have no ammonia reading, or nitrite, and only very low nitrates so far in my newly turned wastad 55 gallon NPT (natural planted tank). Everything seems okay, but this cloudiness happened after I did a "normal" PWC and filter cleaning, but I did add some flourish iron to the water for my sword's.... Any ideas? I've been posting on the el natural forums and everyone says it sounds like a bacterial bloom, it's just a slight haziness to the water, looks like it could be white (but it's under yellowish lighting) heh. Amber gail wrote: > > > So, I have a few Mystery snails. I recently moved my black & my gold > mystery snails to my 10 gallon, and the black one is thriving. He > cruises around all big and bold. However, last night I noticed the > black one was all over the gold one, and the gold one wasn't fully out > of it's shell - but it's trap door (or foot) was open. Is this a > strange mating ritual? The gold, one seems kind of shy, and hasn't > been cruising around the tank like the more bold, black one. > Any ideas on this behavior? > > Thanks > > Gail > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 42245	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 7/24/2009
Subject: le sigh, le cloudiness

Okay, so my 55 gallon NPT (natural planted tank, soil substrate, Walstad setup, etc), is having some sort of "bloom" in the water, after testing with every test kit I own and everything reads 0 or barely at all I'm not concerned that the tank is cycling, and the water is white so it's not a green water bloom again. My ammonia reads 0 on my API test kit, same with nitrite, and nitrate barely had a reading over 0. At first my fish started acting oddly (hanging out at the surface like they do with pH shock), but the pH was stable, hadn't changed at all (it's still 7.2). So I increased the water flow in the rena filstar xp 4 and cleaned the filter and the sponge over the intake. My one question is this, Could it be snail poop causing this cloudiness? I know it sounds like a weird question but the tank has a lot of baby briggs growing up in it as well as maybe 10-12 adults. I can move some of the adults over to the 125 gallon now that they're nice and big, I was just curious if this could be my problem. The filter is not clearing up the cloudiness at all though, and I also removed the crushed coral out of the filter yesterday when I cleaned it. Help please :( pH 7.2 Ammonia 0 Nitrite 0 Nitrate 5 ppm KH 7 drops, so that's 126 ppm right? GH 12 drops, 216 ppm? Calcium, 80 ppm Phosphate over 0, but under .1 Those were the tests done yesterday before removing anything from the filter and cleaning it, I haven't tested yet today and I'm on lunch no time right now so I will have to retest after work. Amber

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 42246	From: Dora Smith	Date: 7/24/2009
Subject: Re: le sigh, le cloudiness

Amber, maybe this is a dumb question, but what does the water smell like? Also, is the water cloudy like in cloudy or changed color, or like in little particles suspended in the water? If whatever is causing the bloom is feeding on nitrates and/or phosphate, that could cause those levels to be low. Yours, Dora Smith Austin, TX tiggernut24@... ----- Original Message ----- From: "Amber Berglund" <arberglund@...> To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Friday, July 24, 2009 3:40 PM Subject: [AquaticLife] le sigh, le cloudiness Okay, so my 55 gallon NPT (natural planted tank, soil substrate, Walstad setup, etc), is having some sort of "bloom" in the water, after testing with every test kit I own and everything reads 0 or barely at all I'm not concerned that the tank is cycling, and the water is white so it's not a green water bloom again. My ammonia reads 0 on my API test kit, same with nitrite, and nitrate barely had a reading over 0. At first my fish started acting oddly (hanging out at the surface like they do with pH shock), but the pH was stable, hadn't changed at all (it's still 7.2). So I increased the water flow in the rena filstar xp 4 and cleaned the filter and the sponge over the intake. My one question is this, Could it be snail poop causing this cloudiness? I know it sounds like a weird question but the tank has a lot of baby briggs growing up in it as well as maybe 10-12 adults. I can move some of the adults over to the 125 gallon now that they're nice and big, I was just curious if this could be my problem. The filter is not clearing up the cloudiness at all though, and I also removed the crushed coral out of the filter yesterday when I cleaned it. Help please :( pH 7.2 Ammonia 0 Nitrite 0 Nitrate 5 ppm KH 7 drops, so that's 126 ppm right? GH 12 drops, 216 ppm? Calcium, 80 ppm Phosphate over 0, but under .1 Those were the tests done yesterday before removing anything from the filter and cleaning it, I haven't tested yet today and I'm on lunch no time right now so I will have to retest after work. Amber ------------------------------------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the home page. Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com to receive the digest, which includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com for the No E-Mail option where you will still be able to read messages on the group and post replies. Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com to receive individual e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 42247	From: Gail	Date: 7/24/2009
Subject: Re: Snail behaviors

I did check out applesnail.net and I think my snails were doing the naughty snail dance. lol ;) I do keep my tank at approx 74 degrees and my water hardness is high ( I dont' remember exact numbers) Here in SLC, we have Calcium Carbonate naturally in our hard water. But I do occasionally give them a tums :) thanks, gail --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, Amber Berglund <arberglund@...> wrote: > > The male will stick his "parts" inside of the other snails shell from > what I've read on applesnail.net (check there if you ever have any > concerns on your snails they cover a lot of info). > It could be mating, or socializing somehow, just make sure they aren't > eating the other snail ;) LOL. I don't think that happens very often and > usually it's with a sick/dieing snail I think. > Mine climb all over each other if one happens to be in the way when > they're heading that direction, they just go over rather than around ;) LOL. > Also what temp do you keep your tank at and how high is your pH and > hardness levels? Snails need harder water to keep their shells from > turning soft and getting pockets/holes in them, so you might have to add > calcium to the tank for them. > > Amber > > gail wrote: > > > > > > So, I have a few Mystery snails. I recently moved my black & my gold > > mystery snails to my 10 gallon, and the black one is thriving. He > > cruises around all big and bold. However, last night I noticed the > > black one was all over the gold one, and the gold one wasn't fully out > > of it's shell - but it's trap door (or foot) was open. Is this a > > strange mating ritual? The gold, one seems kind of shy, and hasn't > > been cruising around the tank like the more bold, black one. > > Any ideas on this behavior? > > > > Thanks > > > > Gail > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 42248	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 7/24/2009
Subject: Re: le sigh, le cloudiness

Well the light is currently off for mid day siesta, but I will look at the water cloudiness after work tonight and update. It looks like it's just dirty cloudy white water to me, nothing suspended, but there are some particles floating around, most look like poop, LOL. ;) The water smells fine, not bad at least, it smells like most of my fish tanks smell like ;) fishy LOL. Amber Dora Smith wrote: > > > Amber, maybe this is a dumb question, but what does the water smell like? > > Also, is the water cloudy like in cloudy or changed color, or like in > little > particles suspended in the water? > > If whatever is causing the bloom is feeding on nitrates and/or phosphate, > that could cause those levels to be low. > > Yours, > Dora Smith > Austin, TX > tiggernut24@... <mailto:tiggernut24%40yahoo.com> > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Amber Berglund" <arberglund@... > <mailto:arberglund%40gmail.com>> > To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>> > Sent: Friday, July 24, 2009 3:40 PM > Subject: [AquaticLife] le sigh, le cloudiness > > Okay, so my 55 gallon NPT (natural planted tank, soil substrate, Walstad > setup, etc), is having some sort of "bloom" in the water, after testing > with every test kit I own and everything reads 0 or barely at all I'm > not concerned that the tank is cycling, and the water is white so it's > not a green water bloom again. My ammonia reads 0 on my API test kit, > same with nitrite, and nitrate barely had a reading over 0. At first my > fish started acting oddly (hanging out at the surface like they do with > pH shock), but the pH was stable, hadn't changed at all (it's still > 7.2). So I increased the water flow in the rena filstar xp 4 and cleaned > the filter and the sponge over the intake. > My one question is this, Could it be snail poop causing this cloudiness? > I know it sounds like a weird question but the tank has a lot of baby > briggs growing up in it as well as maybe 10-12 adults. I can move some > of the adults over to the 125 gallon now that they're nice and big, I > was just curious if this could be my problem. The filter is not clearing > up the cloudiness at all though, and I also removed the crushed coral > out of the filter yesterday when I cleaned it. > Help please :( > > pH 7.2 > Ammonia 0 > Nitrite 0 > Nitrate 5 ppm > KH 7 drops, so that's 126 ppm right? > GH 12 drops, 216 ppm? > Calcium, 80 ppm > Phosphate over 0, but under .1 > > Those were the tests done yesterday before removing anything from the > filter and cleaning it, I haven't tested yet today and I'm on lunch no > time right now so I will have to retest after work. > > Amber > > ------------------------------------ > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. > ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> > PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT > important to > the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the > SUBJECT > LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- > <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. > > If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of unsubscribing, > you > can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My Membership" on > the > home page. > > Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:aquaticlife-digest%40yahoogroups.com> to receive the digest, > which > includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email > > Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:aquaticlife-nomail%40yahoogroups.com> for the No E-Mail option > where > you will still be able to read messages on the group and post replies. > > Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:aquaticlife-normal%40yahoogroups.com> to receive individual > e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 42249	From: biG poppa	Date: 7/24/2009
Subject: Re: le sigh, le cloudiness

Amber did you remove some of the water from the tank letting the water splash in.do you have an air pump running? I read you cleaning out your filter..bad idea trust me i learn that the hard way..did you use tank water or tap water to clean the filters? also what kind of cludiness(white,green,brown?)  did you do the coffee filter test? i took me like 3 weeks to clear up my tank --- On Fri, 7/24/09, Amber Berglund <arberglund@...> wrote: From: Amber Berglund <arberglund@...> Subject: [AquaticLife] le sigh, le cloudiness To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Date: Friday, July 24, 2009, 4:40 PM   Okay, so my 55 gallon NPT (natural planted tank, soil substrate, Walstad setup, etc), is having some sort of "bloom" in the water, after testing with every test kit I own and everything reads 0 or barely at all I'm not concerned that the tank is cycling, and the water is white so it's not a green water bloom again. My ammonia reads 0 on my API test kit, same with nitrite, and nitrate barely had a reading over 0. At first my fish started acting oddly (hanging out at the surface like they do with pH shock), but the pH was stable, hadn't changed at all (it's still 7.2). So I increased the water flow in the rena filstar xp 4 and cleaned the filter and the sponge over the intake. My one question is this, Could it be snail poop causing this cloudiness? I know it sounds like a weird question but the tank has a lot of baby briggs growing up in it as well as maybe 10-12 adults. I can move some of the adults over to the 125 gallon now that they're nice and big, I was just curious if this could be my problem. The filter is not clearing up the cloudiness at all though, and I also removed the crushed coral out of the filter yesterday when I cleaned it. Help please :( pH 7.2 Ammonia 0 Nitrite 0 Nitrate 5 ppm KH 7 drops, so that's 126 ppm right? GH 12 drops, 216 ppm? Calcium, 80 ppm Phosphate over 0, but under .1 Those were the tests done yesterday before removing anything from the filter and cleaning it, I haven't tested yet today and I'm on lunch no time right now so I will have to retest after work. Amber [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 42250	From: pam andress	Date: 7/24/2009
Subject: Re: Catfish age

As Lenny said, it could have been stunted before you got it and with your care it is now growing well. It is hard to say how old it is, but most likely under a year. A lot depends on what size tank it was in prior to your getting it and how it was taken care of then. AND what size tank it is in now and how you are taking care of it now. The albinos that Amber got from me where born in a 55 gal, but where then moved to a 29 gal. So they did not grow as fast as they could have if they had stayed in the 55. I only have a few left from that time and I can't remember exactly when they where born. Right now I have about 200 baby brown BN's in a 55 gal. The only thing else in that tank are a few guppies, so they have a large tank to grow in at this time. I have also spread out some more browns in my other tanks so not all are in one. Pam Based on my research for my blog "How Long SHOULD Aquarium Fish Live? (An Expected Lifespan Guide For Fish Keepers)", http://goldlenny.blogspot.com/2007/02/how-long-should-aquarium-fish-live.htm l, BN Plecos *should* live as long as 20 years. Many, if not most catfish, are slow growers and will grow throughout a long part of their life, although the majority of any fishes growth will still be in the first few months to a year. Since yours is growing rapidly and is only 3" long, you can presume it's still under a year old. BN Plecos should grow to around 6" long, if they do not get stunted. Since yours is still growing rapidly, it's even more important to stick to a frequent and regular PWC schedule to remove/dilute the hormone levels which are a big cause of stunting and its related health issues. How big was it when you got it? A 1/2", an inch, or ??? Pam from this group breeds BN Plecos and could probably give you a better idea of its age range based on the size when you first got it and then you would know more precisely. Of course, it could have been partially stunted when you got it, if it was crammed into a tank with a lot of other growing fish and then when you moved it into your tank, which might be better maintained, it started growing quickly again. For example, this happened to me when, in July 2005, I adopted/rescued what turned out to be a *Common Pleco* (mine ended up being a Liposarcus pardalis which should grow to over 18") that had been living in a 10G tank with a bunch of other fish for its first two years. After 2 years in the 10G tank, this L. pardalis was only around 4" long (severely stunted). I moved it into my 65G tank as a temporary home while I was planning for a much larger tank (then Katrina hit us) and in the 18 months that I kept it in the 65G tank, it grew 6" to where it was 10" long. At that point, since I was not going to be able to get any larger tanks, I rehomed the guy to my LFS and he was sold the next day to someone with a BIG Cichlid tank. I hope he's growing even more and doing well. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Lisa Sent: Friday, July 24, 2009 7:10 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Catfish age Alright. I have a bn catfish, albino, male, aprox 3 inches in lenght from nose to tip Is there any sure way of telling roughly what age he is? Ive had him for about 4 - 5 months, and since then he has grown quite a bit. Lisa [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 42251	From: bill 1433	Date: 7/24/2009
Subject: Re: Catfish age

Are you selling fish Pam or just raising?   Bill --- On Fri, 7/24/09, pam andress <pamandress23@...> wrote: From: pam andress <pamandress23@...> Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Catfish age To: aquaticlife@yahoogroups.com Date: Friday, July 24, 2009, 12:47 PM As Lenny said, it could have been stunted before you got it and with your care it is now growing well. It is hard to say how old it is, but most likely under a year. A lot depends on what size tank it was in prior to your getting it and how it was taken care of then. AND what size tank it is in now and how you are taking care of it now. The albinos that Amber got from me where born in a 55 gal, but where then moved to a 29 gal. So they did not grow as fast as they could have if they had stayed in the 55. I only have a few left from that time and I can't remember exactly when they where born. Right now I have about 200 baby brown BN's in a 55 gal. The only thing else in that tank are a few guppies, so they have a large tank to grow in at this time. I have also spread out some more browns in my other tanks so not all are in one. Pam   Based on my research for my blog "How Long SHOULD Aquarium Fish Live? (An Expected Lifespan Guide For Fish Keepers)", http://goldlenny.blogspot.com/2007/02/how-long-should-aquarium-fish-live.htm l, BN Plecos *should* live as long as 20 years. Many, if not most catfish, are slow growers and will grow throughout a long part of their life, although the majority of any fishes growth will still be in the first few months to a year. Since yours is growing rapidly and is only 3" long, you can presume it's still under a year old. BN Plecos should grow to around 6" long, if they do not get stunted. Since yours is still growing rapidly, it's even more important to stick to a frequent and regular PWC schedule to remove/dilute the hormone levels which are a big cause of stunting and its related health issues. How big was it when you got it? A 1/2", an inch, or ??? Pam from this group breeds BN Plecos and could probably give you a better idea of its age range based on the size when you first got it and then you would know more precisely. Of course, it could have been partially stunted when you got it, if it was crammed into a tank with a lot of other growing fish and then when you moved it into your tank, which might be better maintained, it started growing quickly again. For example, this happened to me when, in July 2005, I adopted/rescued what turned out to be a *Common Pleco* (mine ended up being a Liposarcus pardalis which should grow to over 18") that had been living in a 10G tank with a bunch of other fish for its first two years. After 2 years in the 10G tank, this L. pardalis was only around 4" long (severely stunted). I moved it into my 65G tank as a temporary home while I was planning for a much larger tank (then Katrina hit us) and in the 18 months that I kept it in the 65G tank, it grew 6" to where it was 10" long. At that point, since I was not going to be able to get any larger tanks, I rehomed the guy to my LFS and he was sold the next day to someone with a BIG Cichlid tank. I hope he's growing even more and doing well. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Lisa Sent: Friday, July 24, 2009 7:10 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Catfish age Alright. I have a bn catfish, albino, male, aprox 3 inches in lenght from nose to tip Is there any sure way of telling roughly what age he is? Ive had him for about 4 - 5 months, and since then he has grown quite a bit.. Lisa [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] ------------------------------------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the home page.  Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com to receive the digest, which includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com for the No E-Mail option where you will still be able to read messages on the group and post replies. Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com to receive individual e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 42252	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 7/24/2009
Subject: Re: Amber's bacterial bloom (was: Snail behaviors)

I don't think snail poop, per se, would cause a bacterial bloom but the "many" snails that you added at once could cause a slight disruption in the ecology of the tank which could result in a bacterial bloom. You did so many other things at once that it is difficult to attribute this to the snails. Did you "over clean" your filter? That could cause a bacterial bloom. Same with a PWC, if the tap water was allowed to go directly into the intake of your filter. I always put the Python furthest from any of my filter intakes to make sure this does not happen. I'm not sure if the Flourish Iron would cause this but it certainly is possible as you added something that changed the overall ecology of the tank and maybe this particular strain of bacteria/microbes liked the Iron and decided to go on a breeding frenzy. Is this the first time you've used that product in this tank? Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Amber Berglund Sent: Friday, July 24, 2009 10:44 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Snail behaviors Oh and speaking of snails... Does a lot of snail poop in the water column cause a tank to turn cloudy? I have no ammonia reading, or nitrite, and only very low nitrates so far in my newly turned wastad 55 gallon NPT (natural planted tank). Everything seems okay, but this cloudiness happened after I did a "normal" PWC and filter cleaning, but I did add some flourish iron to the water for my sword's.... Any ideas? I've been posting on the el natural forums and everyone says it sounds like a bacterial bloom, it's just a slight haziness to the water, looks like it could be white (but it's under yellowish lighting) heh. Amber gail wrote: > > > So, I have a few Mystery snails. I recently moved my black & my gold > mystery snails to my 10 gallon, and the black one is thriving. He > cruises around all big and bold. However, last night I noticed the > black one was all over the gold one, and the gold one wasn't fully out > of it's shell - but it's trap door (or foot) was open. Is this a > strange mating ritual? The gold, one seems kind of shy, and hasn't > been cruising around the tank like the more bold, black one. > Any ideas on this behavior? > > Thanks > > Gail

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 42253	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 7/24/2009
Subject: Re: Amber's bacterial bloom

yes it was the first time I used the flourish iron in this tank with it having soil in it, I had used it prior to switching the substrates. And yes, I may have over cleaned the filter, I was a bit over zealous at the time ;) LOL. Amber Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > > > I don't think snail poop, per se, would cause a bacterial bloom but the > "many" snails that you added at once could cause a slight disruption > in the > ecology of the tank which could result in a bacterial bloom. You did so > many other things at once that it is difficult to attribute this to the > snails. Did you "over clean" your filter? That could cause a bacterial > bloom. Same with a PWC, if the tap water was allowed to go directly into > the intake of your filter. I always put the Python furthest from any of my > filter intakes to make sure this does not happen. I'm not sure if the > Flourish Iron would cause this but it certainly is possible as you added > something that changed the overall ecology of the tank and maybe this > particular strain of bacteria/microbes liked the Iron and decided to > go on a > breeding frenzy. Is this the first time you've used that product in this > tank? > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right > side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On > Behalf Of Amber Berglund > Sent: Friday, July 24, 2009 10:44 AM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Snail behaviors > > Oh and speaking of snails... > Does a lot of snail poop in the water column cause a tank to turn > cloudy? I > have no ammonia reading, or nitrite, and only very low nitrates so far > in my > newly turned wastad 55 gallon NPT (natural planted tank). Everything seems > okay, but this cloudiness happened after I did a "normal" PWC and filter > cleaning, but I did add some flourish iron to the water for my sword's.... > Any ideas? I've been posting on the el natural forums and everyone says it > sounds like a bacterial bloom, it's just a slight haziness to the water, > looks like it could be white (but it's under yellowish lighting) heh. > > Amber > > gail wrote: > > > > > > So, I have a few Mystery snails. I recently moved my black & my gold > > mystery snails to my 10 gallon, and the black one is thriving. He > > cruises around all big and bold. However, last night I noticed the > > black one was all over the gold one, and the gold one wasn't fully out > > of it's shell - but it's trap door (or foot) was open. Is this a > > strange mating ritual? The gold, one seems kind of shy, and hasn't > > been cruising around the tank like the more bold, black one. > > Any ideas on this behavior? > > > > Thanks > > > > Gail > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 42254	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 7/24/2009
Subject: Re: Catfish age

Pam sells her fish, I bought some BN pleco's, snails, and cherry shrimp from her, and she threw in some plume tail platy's for free. She also has a certain color of guppies I forget which though, LOL. Amber bill 1433 wrote: > > > Are you selling fish Pam or just raising? > > Bill > > --- On Fri, 7/24/09, pam andress <pamandress23@... > <mailto:pamandress23%40hotmail.com>> wrote: > > From: pam andress <pamandress23@... > <mailto:pamandress23%40hotmail.com>> > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Catfish age > To: aquaticlife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:aquaticlife%40yahoogroups.com> > Date: Friday, July 24, 2009, 12:47 PM > > As Lenny said, it could have been stunted before you got it and with > your care it is now growing well. It is hard to say how old it is, but > most likely under a year. A lot depends on what size tank it was in > prior to your getting it and how it was taken care of then. AND what > size tank it is in now and how you are taking care of it now. > > The albinos that Amber got from me where born in a 55 gal, but where > then moved to a 29 gal. So they did not grow as fast as they could > have if they had stayed in the 55. I only have a few left from that > time and I can't remember exactly when they where born. Right now I > have about 200 baby brown BN's in a 55 gal. The only thing else in > that tank are a few guppies, so they have a large tank to grow in at > this time. I have also spread out some more browns in my other tanks > so not all are in one. > > Pam > > > > Based on my research for my blog "How Long SHOULD Aquarium Fish Live? (An > Expected Lifespan Guide For Fish Keepers)", > http://goldlenny.blogspot.com/2007/02/how-long-should-aquarium-fish-live.htm > <http://goldlenny.blogspot.com/2007/02/how-long-should-aquarium-fish-live.htm> > l, BN Plecos *should* live as long as 20 years. Many, if not most catfish, > are slow growers and will grow throughout a long part of their life, > although the majority of any fishes growth will still be in the first few > months to a year. > > Since yours is growing rapidly and is only 3" long, you can presume it's > still under a year old. BN Plecos should grow to around 6" long, if > they do > not get stunted. Since yours is still growing rapidly, it's even more > important to stick to a frequent and regular PWC schedule to remove/dilute > the hormone levels which are a big cause of stunting and its related > health > issues. > > How big was it when you got it? A 1/2", an inch, or ??? Pam from this > group breeds BN Plecos and could probably give you a better idea of > its age > range based on the size when you first got it and then you would know more > precisely. Of course, it could have been partially stunted when you > got it, > if it was crammed into a tank with a lot of other growing fish and > then when > you moved it into your tank, which might be better maintained, it started > growing quickly again. > > For example, this happened to me when, in July 2005, I adopted/rescued > what > turned out to be a *Common Pleco* (mine ended up being a Liposarcus > pardalis > which should grow to over 18") that had been living in a 10G tank with a > bunch of other fish for its first two years. After 2 years in the 10G > tank, > this L. pardalis was only around 4" long (severely stunted). I moved it > into my 65G tank as a temporary home while I was planning for a much > larger > tank (then Katrina hit us) and in the 18 months that I kept it in the 65G > tank, it grew 6" to where it was 10" long. At that point, since I was not > going to be able to get any larger tanks, I rehomed the guy to my LFS > and he > was sold the next day to someone with a BIG Cichlid tank. I hope he's > growing even more and doing well. > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right > side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On > Behalf Of Lisa > Sent: Friday, July 24, 2009 7:10 AM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Subject: [AquaticLife] Catfish age > > Alright. I have a bn catfish, albino, male, aprox 3 inches in lenght from > nose to tip Is there any sure way of telling roughly what age he is? > Ive had him for about 4 - 5 months, and since then he has grown quite > a bit.. > > Lisa > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > ------------------------------------ > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. > ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> > PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT > important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message > MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- > <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. > > If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of unsubscribing, > you can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My > Membership" on the home page. > > Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:aquaticlife-digest%40yahoogroups.com> to receive the digest, > which includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email > > Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:aquaticlife-nomail%40yahoogroups.com> for the No E-Mail option > where you will still be able to read messages on the group and post > replies. > > Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:aquaticlife-normal%40yahoogroups.com> to receive individual > e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 42255	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 7/24/2009
Subject: Re: le sigh, le cloudiness

I cleaned like I always have, just swooshed things in the removed tank water a bit more than normal to get them extra clean. It's a white cloudiness, no coffee filters in the house or I'd try that test, but I'm sure I'd get something out of it if I did that test ;) LOL. I have been cleaning the sponges with tap water at the sink so I can spray them cleaner, could this have killed off my good bacteria? I still clean the filters with removed tap water... Amber biG poppa wrote: > > > Amber did you remove some of the water from the tank letting the water > splash in.do you have an air pump running? I read you cleaning out > your filter..bad idea trust me i learn that the hard way..did you use > tank water or tap water to clean the filters? also what kind of > cludiness(white,green,brown?) did you do the coffee filter test? i > took me like 3 weeks to clear up my tank > > --- On Fri, 7/24/09, Amber Berglund <arberglund@... > <mailto:arberglund%40gmail.com>> wrote: > > From: Amber Berglund <arberglund@... > <mailto:arberglund%40gmail.com>> > Subject: [AquaticLife] le sigh, le cloudiness > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Date: Friday, July 24, 2009, 4:40 PM > > > > Okay, so my 55 gallon NPT (natural planted tank, soil substrate, Walstad > setup, etc), is having some sort of "bloom" in the water, after testing > with every test kit I own and everything reads 0 or barely at all I'm > not concerned that the tank is cycling, and the water is white so it's > not a green water bloom again. My ammonia reads 0 on my API test kit, > same with nitrite, and nitrate barely had a reading over 0. At first my > fish started acting oddly (hanging out at the surface like they do with > pH shock), but the pH was stable, hadn't changed at all (it's still > 7.2). So I increased the water flow in the rena filstar xp 4 and cleaned > the filter and the sponge over the intake. > My one question is this, Could it be snail poop causing this cloudiness? > I know it sounds like a weird question but the tank has a lot of baby > briggs growing up in it as well as maybe 10-12 adults. I can move some > of the adults over to the 125 gallon now that they're nice and big, I > was just curious if this could be my problem. The filter is not clearing > up the cloudiness at all though, and I also removed the crushed coral > out of the filter yesterday when I cleaned it. > Help please :( > > pH 7.2 > Ammonia 0 > Nitrite 0 > Nitrate 5 ppm > KH 7 drops, so that's 126 ppm right? > GH 12 drops, 216 ppm? > Calcium, 80 ppm > Phosphate over 0, but under .1 > > Those were the tests done yesterday before removing anything from the > filter and cleaning it, I haven't tested yet today and I'm on lunch no > time right now so I will have to retest after work. > > Amber > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 42256	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 7/24/2009
Subject: Re: le sigh, le cloudiness

Filters will NOT clear up a bacterial bloom unless you used a Diatom filter or other advanced filtration that will remove microbe sized particles. Your UV filter would kill the bacteria but this might not be a good thing since you do not know what these bacteria are and whether they are good or bad bacteria. As I asked in my earlier reply, is this the first time you added the Flourish Iron? I would be more suspect of that than of the snails. How long have the snails been in the tank... a week or two at least... right? Relax and DO NOT keep making changes. As I said in my earlier answer, a bacterial bloom is due to a change in the ecology... just like "new tank syndrome" when a tank is first set up or when other changes are made to the ecology. I DO NOT think it's the snails directly but it could be related to them. Are they eating up all the algae right now? If yes, then it's not the snails directly but the fact that they are eating up the algae and putting out additional waste so you are getting a double whammy to the ecology.... a higher bioload and less plants (algae) to handle the bioload. There were likely various microbiological life forms being sustained within the algae and now that the algae is disappearing, these microbes could also looking for a new place to call home... kind of how wild animals come tramping through a neighborhood when there is a forest fire or some other disruption to their home... or in your case, SnailZilla is tramping through and eating their village. How long have the snail been in the tank? What was the fish bioload in the tank prior to adding the snails? If you added enough snails at one time, they would certainly have an impact on the bioload, especially if they are eating up algae causing the double-whammy effect. You could also add some filter media from one of your other tanks, to this tank, which might bring in the right kind of change to the ecology to calm your little bacterial bloom down. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Amber Berglund Sent: Friday, July 24, 2009 3:41 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] le sigh, le cloudiness Okay, so my 55 gallon NPT (natural planted tank, soil substrate, Walstad setup, etc), is having some sort of "bloom" in the water, after testing with every test kit I own and everything reads 0 or barely at all I'm not concerned that the tank is cycling, and the water is white so it's not a green water bloom again. My ammonia reads 0 on my API test kit, same with nitrite, and nitrate barely had a reading over 0. At first my fish started acting oddly (hanging out at the surface like they do with pH shock), but the pH was stable, hadn't changed at all (it's still 7.2). So I increased the water flow in the rena filstar xp 4 and cleaned the filter and the sponge over the intake. My one question is this, Could it be snail poop causing this cloudiness? I know it sounds like a weird question but the tank has a lot of baby briggs growing up in it as well as maybe 10-12 adults. I can move some of the adults over to the 125 gallon now that they're nice and big, I was just curious if this could be my problem. The filter is not clearing up the cloudiness at all though, and I also removed the crushed coral out of the filter yesterday when I cleaned it. Help please :( pH 7.2 Ammonia 0 Nitrite 0 Nitrate 5 ppm KH 7 drops, so that's 126 ppm right? GH 12 drops, 216 ppm? Calcium, 80 ppm Phosphate over 0, but under .1 Those were the tests done yesterday before removing anything from the filter and cleaning it, I haven't tested yet today and I'm on lunch no time right now so I will have to retest after work. Amber

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 42257	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 7/24/2009
Subject: Re: le sigh, le cloudiness

I haven't done any changes since yesterday before I brought up this topic, I have been waiting out the "bloom". And yes as I said, this is the first time I've used the flourish iron with the soil substrate, I've used it in gravel tanks only before this. The snails I got from the first shipper were about 2 1/2 weeks ago I think (the days all blend together) and I think I've had Pam's snails and shrimp for a little over a week now too. I feed the snails all kinds of food just in case there isn't enough algae, and believe me there's still some on the glass ;) LOL Perhaps I'm over feeding the bacteria? Amber Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > > > Filters will NOT clear up a bacterial bloom unless you used a Diatom > filter > or other advanced filtration that will remove microbe sized particles. > Your > UV filter would kill the bacteria but this might not be a good thing since > you do not know what these bacteria are and whether they are good or bad > bacteria. > > As I asked in my earlier reply, is this the first time you added the > Flourish Iron? I would be more suspect of that than of the snails. How > long have the snails been in the tank... a week or two at least... right? > > Relax and DO NOT keep making changes. As I said in my earlier answer, a > bacterial bloom is due to a change in the ecology... just like "new tank > syndrome" when a tank is first set up or when other changes are made > to the > ecology. > > I DO NOT think it's the snails directly but it could be related to them. > Are they eating up all the algae right now? If yes, then it's not the > snails directly but the fact that they are eating up the algae and putting > out additional waste so you are getting a double whammy to the > ecology.... a > higher bioload and less plants (algae) to handle the bioload. There were > likely various microbiological life forms being sustained within the algae > and now that the algae is disappearing, these microbes could also looking > for a new place to call home... kind of how wild animals come tramping > through a neighborhood when there is a forest fire or some other > disruption > to their home... or in your case, SnailZilla is tramping through and > eating > their village. > > How long have the snail been in the tank? What was the fish bioload in the > tank prior to adding the snails? If you added enough snails at one time, > they would certainly have an impact on the bioload, especially if they are > eating up algae causing the double-whammy effect. > > You could also add some filter media from one of your other tanks, to this > tank, which might bring in the right kind of change to the ecology to calm > your little bacterial bloom down. > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right > side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On > Behalf Of Amber Berglund > Sent: Friday, July 24, 2009 3:41 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Subject: [AquaticLife] le sigh, le cloudiness > > Okay, so my 55 gallon NPT (natural planted tank, soil substrate, Walstad > setup, etc), is having some sort of "bloom" in the water, after > testing with > every test kit I own and everything reads 0 or barely at all I'm not > concerned that the tank is cycling, and the water is white so it's not a > green water bloom again. My ammonia reads 0 on my API test kit, same with > nitrite, and nitrate barely had a reading over 0. At first my fish started > acting oddly (hanging out at the surface like they do with pH shock), but > the pH was stable, hadn't changed at all (it's still 7.2). So I increased > the water flow in the rena filstar xp 4 and cleaned the filter and the > sponge over the intake. > My one question is this, Could it be snail poop causing this cloudiness? > I know it sounds like a weird question but the tank has a lot of baby > briggs > growing up in it as well as maybe 10-12 adults. I can move some of the > adults over to the 125 gallon now that they're nice and big, I was just > curious if this could be my problem. The filter is not clearing up the > cloudiness at all though, and I also removed the crushed coral out of the > filter yesterday when I cleaned it. > Help please :( > > pH 7.2 > Ammonia 0 > Nitrite 0 > Nitrate 5 ppm > KH 7 drops, so that's 126 ppm right? > GH 12 drops, 216 ppm? > Calcium, 80 ppm > Phosphate over 0, but under .1 > > Those were the tests done yesterday before removing anything from the > filter > and cleaning it, I haven't tested yet today and I'm on lunch no time right > now so I will have to retest after work. > > Amber > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 42258	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 7/24/2009
Subject: Re: le sigh, le cloudiness

Also why am I testing zero on everything except nitrates if it's a bacteria bloom? That part confuses me, shouldn't this be a mini cycle too? Amber Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > > > Filters will NOT clear up a bacterial bloom unless you used a Diatom > filter > or other advanced filtration that will remove microbe sized particles. > Your > UV filter would kill the bacteria but this might not be a good thing since > you do not know what these bacteria are and whether they are good or bad > bacteria. > > As I asked in my earlier reply, is this the first time you added the > Flourish Iron? I would be more suspect of that than of the snails. How > long have the snails been in the tank... a week or two at least... right? > > Relax and DO NOT keep making changes. As I said in my earlier answer, a > bacterial bloom is due to a change in the ecology... just like "new tank > syndrome" when a tank is first set up or when other changes are made > to the > ecology. > > I DO NOT think it's the snails directly but it could be related to them. > Are they eating up all the algae right now? If yes, then it's not the > snails directly but the fact that they are eating up the algae and putting > out additional waste so you are getting a double whammy to the > ecology.... a > higher bioload and less plants (algae) to handle the bioload. There were > likely various microbiological life forms being sustained within the algae > and now that the algae is disappearing, these microbes could also looking > for a new place to call home... kind of how wild animals come tramping > through a neighborhood when there is a forest fire or some other > disruption > to their home... or in your case, SnailZilla is tramping through and > eating > their village. > > How long have the snail been in the tank? What was the fish bioload in the > tank prior to adding the snails? If you added enough snails at one time, > they would certainly have an impact on the bioload, especially if they are > eating up algae causing the double-whammy effect. > > You could also add some filter media from one of your other tanks, to this > tank, which might bring in the right kind of change to the ecology to calm > your little bacterial bloom down. > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right > side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On > Behalf Of Amber Berglund > Sent: Friday, July 24, 2009 3:41 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Subject: [AquaticLife] le sigh, le cloudiness > > Okay, so my 55 gallon NPT (natural planted tank, soil substrate, Walstad > setup, etc), is having some sort of "bloom" in the water, after > testing with > every test kit I own and everything reads 0 or barely at all I'm not > concerned that the tank is cycling, and the water is white so it's not a > green water bloom again. My ammonia reads 0 on my API test kit, same with > nitrite, and nitrate barely had a reading over 0. At first my fish started > acting oddly (hanging out at the surface like they do with pH shock), but > the pH was stable, hadn't changed at all (it's still 7.2). So I increased > the water flow in the rena filstar xp 4 and cleaned the filter and the > sponge over the intake. > My one question is this, Could it be snail poop causing this cloudiness? > I know it sounds like a weird question but the tank has a lot of baby > briggs > growing up in it as well as maybe 10-12 adults. I can move some of the > adults over to the 125 gallon now that they're nice and big, I was just > curious if this could be my problem. The filter is not clearing up the > cloudiness at all though, and I also removed the crushed coral out of the > filter yesterday when I cleaned it. > Help please :( > > pH 7.2 > Ammonia 0 > Nitrite 0 > Nitrate 5 ppm > KH 7 drops, so that's 126 ppm right? > GH 12 drops, 216 ppm? > Calcium, 80 ppm > Phosphate over 0, but under .1 > > Those were the tests done yesterday before removing anything from the > filter > and cleaning it, I haven't tested yet today and I'm on lunch no time right > now so I will have to retest after work. > > Amber > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 42259	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 7/24/2009
Subject: Re: le sigh, le cloudiness

Oh, and not sure if this matters but my guppy females popped out tons of babies that are still alive and well (hiding in the duckweed and ulvaceus), but they shouldn't have raised the bio-load much, they are fry... Amber Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > > > Filters will NOT clear up a bacterial bloom unless you used a Diatom > filter > or other advanced filtration that will remove microbe sized particles. > Your > UV filter would kill the bacteria but this might not be a good thing since > you do not know what these bacteria are and whether they are good or bad > bacteria. > > As I asked in my earlier reply, is this the first time you added the > Flourish Iron? I would be more suspect of that than of the snails. How > long have the snails been in the tank... a week or two at least... right? > > Relax and DO NOT keep making changes. As I said in my earlier answer, a > bacterial bloom is due to a change in the ecology... just like "new tank > syndrome" when a tank is first set up or when other changes are made > to the > ecology. > > I DO NOT think it's the snails directly but it could be related to them. > Are they eating up all the algae right now? If yes, then it's not the > snails directly but the fact that they are eating up the algae and putting > out additional waste so you are getting a double whammy to the > ecology.... a > higher bioload and less plants (algae) to handle the bioload. There were > likely various microbiological life forms being sustained within the algae > and now that the algae is disappearing, these microbes could also looking > for a new place to call home... kind of how wild animals come tramping > through a neighborhood when there is a forest fire or some other > disruption > to their home... or in your case, SnailZilla is tramping through and > eating > their village. > > How long have the snail been in the tank? What was the fish bioload in the > tank prior to adding the snails? If you added enough snails at one time, > they would certainly have an impact on the bioload, especially if they are > eating up algae causing the double-whammy effect. > > You could also add some filter media from one of your other tanks, to this > tank, which might bring in the right kind of change to the ecology to calm > your little bacterial bloom down. > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right > side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On > Behalf Of Amber Berglund > Sent: Friday, July 24, 2009 3:41 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Subject: [AquaticLife] le sigh, le cloudiness > > Okay, so my 55 gallon NPT (natural planted tank, soil substrate, Walstad > setup, etc), is having some sort of "bloom" in the water, after > testing with > every test kit I own and everything reads 0 or barely at all I'm not > concerned that the tank is cycling, and the water is white so it's not a > green water bloom again. My ammonia reads 0 on my API test kit, same with > nitrite, and nitrate barely had a reading over 0. At first my fish started > acting oddly (hanging out at the surface like they do with pH shock), but > the pH was stable, hadn't changed at all (it's still 7.2). So I increased > the water flow in the rena filstar xp 4 and cleaned the filter and the > sponge over the intake. > My one question is this, Could it be snail poop causing this cloudiness? > I know it sounds like a weird question but the tank has a lot of baby > briggs > growing up in it as well as maybe 10-12 adults. I can move some of the > adults over to the 125 gallon now that they're nice and big, I was just > curious if this could be my problem. The filter is not clearing up the > cloudiness at all though, and I also removed the crushed coral out of the > filter yesterday when I cleaned it. > Help please :( > > pH 7.2 > Ammonia 0 > Nitrite 0 > Nitrate 5 ppm > KH 7 drops, so that's 126 ppm right? > GH 12 drops, 216 ppm? > Calcium, 80 ppm > Phosphate over 0, but under .1 > > Those were the tests done yesterday before removing anything from the > filter > and cleaning it, I haven't tested yet today and I'm on lunch no time right > now so I will have to retest after work. > > Amber > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 42260	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 7/24/2009
Subject: Re: le sigh, le cloudiness

I think the name of the "smell" for what a fish tank should smell like is "Earthy"... like the smell of clean dirt (isn't that an oxymoron?). If it starts to smell too fishy or funky, then there's something else going on. Oh yeah... your math appears correct for you GH and KH tests. You should just get used to using dH (degrees of Hardness) so that the drops equal the same number of dH so 7 drops would be 7 dH for KH and 12 drops would be 12 dH for GH. Most of the good profiles, like those on Mongabay, use the dH terminology for suggested water parameters for the fish in the profile. If anyone ever asks what the dH translates out to, let them multiply the dH number by 18. ;-) Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Amber Berglund Sent: Friday, July 24, 2009 4:16 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] le sigh, le cloudiness Well the light is currently off for mid day siesta, but I will look at the water cloudiness after work tonight and update. It looks like it's just dirty cloudy white water to me, nothing suspended, but there are some particles floating around, most look like poop, LOL. ;) The water smells fine, not bad at least, it smells like most of my fish tanks smell like ;) fishy LOL. Amber Dora Smith wrote: > > > Amber, maybe this is a dumb question, but what does the water smell like? > > Also, is the water cloudy like in cloudy or changed color, or like in > little particles suspended in the water? > > If whatever is causing the bloom is feeding on nitrates and/or > phosphate, that could cause those levels to be low. > > Yours, > Dora Smith > Austin, TX > tiggernut24@... <mailto:tiggernut24%40yahoo.com> > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Amber Berglund" <arberglund@... > <mailto:arberglund%40gmail.com>> > To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>> > Sent: Friday, July 24, 2009 3:40 PM > Subject: [AquaticLife] le sigh, le cloudiness > > Okay, so my 55 gallon NPT (natural planted tank, soil substrate, > Walstad setup, etc), is having some sort of "bloom" in the water, > after testing with every test kit I own and everything reads 0 or > barely at all I'm not concerned that the tank is cycling, and the > water is white so it's not a green water bloom again. My ammonia reads > 0 on my API test kit, same with nitrite, and nitrate barely had a > reading over 0. At first my fish started acting oddly (hanging out at > the surface like they do with pH shock), but the pH was stable, hadn't > changed at all (it's still 7.2). So I increased the water flow in the > rena filstar xp 4 and cleaned the filter and the sponge over the intake. > My one question is this, Could it be snail poop causing this cloudiness? > I know it sounds like a weird question but the tank has a lot of baby > briggs growing up in it as well as maybe 10-12 adults. I can move some > of the adults over to the 125 gallon now that they're nice and big, I > was just curious if this could be my problem. The filter is not > clearing up the cloudiness at all though, and I also removed the > crushed coral out of the filter yesterday when I cleaned it. > Help please :( > > pH 7.2 > Ammonia 0 > Nitrite 0 > Nitrate 5 ppm > KH 7 drops, so that's 126 ppm right? > GH 12 drops, 216 ppm? > Calcium, 80 ppm > Phosphate over 0, but under .1 > > Those were the tests done yesterday before removing anything from the > filter and cleaning it, I haven't tested yet today and I'm on lunch no > time right now so I will have to retest after work. > > Amber

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 42261	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 7/24/2009
Subject: Re: le sigh, le cloudiness

Okay sounds good ;) LOL. And yes, the tank smells like dirt, I couldn't quite place it, but since it has dirt in the substrate I'd expect some dirt smell too! LOL. Amber Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > > > I think the name of the "smell" for what a fish tank should smell like is > "Earthy"... like the smell of clean dirt (isn't that an oxymoron?). If it > starts to smell too fishy or funky, then there's something else going on. > > Oh yeah... your math appears correct for you GH and KH tests. You should > just get used to using dH (degrees of Hardness) so that the drops > equal the > same number of dH so 7 drops would be 7 dH for KH and 12 drops would be 12 > dH for GH. Most of the good profiles, like those on Mongabay, use the dH > terminology for suggested water parameters for the fish in the profile. If > anyone ever asks what the dH translates out to, let them multiply the dH > number by 18. ;-) > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right > side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On > Behalf Of Amber Berglund > Sent: Friday, July 24, 2009 4:16 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] le sigh, le cloudiness > > Well the light is currently off for mid day siesta, but I will look at the > water cloudiness after work tonight and update. It looks like it's just > dirty cloudy white water to me, nothing suspended, but there are some > particles floating around, most look like poop, LOL. ;) The water smells > fine, not bad at least, it smells like most of my fish tanks smell like ;) > fishy LOL. > > Amber > > Dora Smith wrote: > > > > > > Amber, maybe this is a dumb question, but what does the water smell > like? > > > > Also, is the water cloudy like in cloudy or changed color, or like in > > little particles suspended in the water? > > > > If whatever is causing the bloom is feeding on nitrates and/or > > phosphate, that could cause those levels to be low. > > > > Yours, > > Dora Smith > > Austin, TX > > tiggernut24@... <mailto:tiggernut24%40yahoo.com> > <mailto:tiggernut24%40yahoo.com> > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: "Amber Berglund" <arberglund@... > <mailto:arberglund%40gmail.com> > > <mailto:arberglund%40gmail.com>> > > To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>> > > Sent: Friday, July 24, 2009 3:40 PM > > Subject: [AquaticLife] le sigh, le cloudiness > > > > Okay, so my 55 gallon NPT (natural planted tank, soil substrate, > > Walstad setup, etc), is having some sort of "bloom" in the water, > > after testing with every test kit I own and everything reads 0 or > > barely at all I'm not concerned that the tank is cycling, and the > > water is white so it's not a green water bloom again. My ammonia reads > > 0 on my API test kit, same with nitrite, and nitrate barely had a > > reading over 0. At first my fish started acting oddly (hanging out at > > the surface like they do with pH shock), but the pH was stable, hadn't > > changed at all (it's still 7.2). So I increased the water flow in the > > rena filstar xp 4 and cleaned the filter and the sponge over the intake. > > My one question is this, Could it be snail poop causing this cloudiness? > > I know it sounds like a weird question but the tank has a lot of baby > > briggs growing up in it as well as maybe 10-12 adults. I can move some > > of the adults over to the 125 gallon now that they're nice and big, I > > was just curious if this could be my problem. The filter is not > > clearing up the cloudiness at all though, and I also removed the > > crushed coral out of the filter yesterday when I cleaned it. > > Help please :( > > > > pH 7.2 > > Ammonia 0 > > Nitrite 0 > > Nitrate 5 ppm > > KH 7 drops, so that's 126 ppm right? > > GH 12 drops, 216 ppm? > > Calcium, 80 ppm > > Phosphate over 0, but under .1 > > > > Those were the tests done yesterday before removing anything from the > > filter and cleaning it, I haven't tested yet today and I'm on lunch no > > time right now so I will have to retest after work. > > > > Amber > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 42262	From: biG poppa	Date: 7/24/2009
Subject: Re: le sigh, le cloudiness

yeap dead bactiria...may they rest in peace.....in another note i had to remove the log decoration i had in my 40g sense my clown loaches seem to go in it and never come out alive lost 2 already i said enouf........just run another air stone amber and give it time it will seatle soon --- On Fri, 7/24/09, Amber Berglund <arberglund@...> wrote: From: Amber Berglund <arberglund@...> Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] le sigh, le cloudiness To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Date: Friday, July 24, 2009, 9:03 PM   I cleaned like I always have, just swooshed things in the removed tank water a bit more than normal to get them extra clean. It's a white cloudiness, no coffee filters in the house or I'd try that test, but I'm sure I'd get something out of it if I did that test ;) LOL. I have been cleaning the sponges with tap water at the sink so I can spray them cleaner, could this have killed off my good bacteria? I still clean the filters with removed tap water... Amber biG poppa wrote: > > > Amber did you remove some of the water from the tank letting the water > splash in.do you have an air pump running? I read you cleaning out > your filter..bad idea trust me i learn that the hard way..did you use > tank water or tap water to clean the filters? also what kind of > cludiness(white, green,brown? ) did you do the coffee filter test? i > took me like 3 weeks to clear up my tank > > --- On Fri, 7/24/09, Amber Berglund <arberglund@gmail. com > <mailto:arberglund% 40gmail.com> > wrote: > > From: Amber Berglund <arberglund@gmail. com > <mailto:arberglund% 40gmail.com> > > Subject: [AquaticLife] le sigh, le cloudiness > To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com <mailto:AquaticLife %40yahoogroups. com> > Date: Friday, July 24, 2009, 4:40 PM > > > > Okay, so my 55 gallon NPT (natural planted tank, soil substrate, Walstad > setup, etc), is having some sort of "bloom" in the water, after testing > with every test kit I own and everything reads 0 or barely at all I'm > not concerned that the tank is cycling, and the water is white so it's > not a green water bloom again. My ammonia reads 0 on my API test kit, > same with nitrite, and nitrate barely had a reading over 0. At first my > fish started acting oddly (hanging out at the surface like they do with > pH shock), but the pH was stable, hadn't changed at all (it's still > 7.2). So I increased the water flow in the rena filstar xp 4 and cleaned > the filter and the sponge over the intake. > My one question is this, Could it be snail poop causing this cloudiness? > I know it sounds like a weird question but the tank has a lot of baby > briggs growing up in it as well as maybe 10-12 adults. I can move some > of the adults over to the 125 gallon now that they're nice and big, I > was just curious if this could be my problem. The filter is not clearing > up the cloudiness at all though, and I also removed the crushed coral > out of the filter yesterday when I cleaned it. > Help please :( > > pH 7.2 > Ammonia 0 > Nitrite 0 > Nitrate 5 ppm > KH 7 drops, so that's 126 ppm right? > GH 12 drops, 216 ppm? > Calcium, 80 ppm > Phosphate over 0, but under .1 > > Those were the tests done yesterday before removing anything from the > filter and cleaning it, I haven't tested yet today and I'm on lunch no > time right now so I will have to retest after work. > > Amber > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 42263	From: Steve Biondi	Date: 7/24/2009
Subject: Sources for Rena4 Spraybar??

Hi All, Wondering if anyone might know where I can get the entire spraybay attachments cheaply. I just bought a used Rena Filstar 4 for my 100. Unfortunately, it was missing the spraybar and tubing. Any ideas where to get the parts?.Planetrena is charging an arm and a leg for the new assembly. Is it easy to make a kind of do-it -yourself setup. Where would be the best place to get the tubing and valves? Is the spraybar unit absolutely necessary or is there another way to use the Rena? Thanks for the help. Steve [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 42264	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 7/24/2009
Subject: Re: Amber's bacterial bloom

OK. As you've said between this and your last reply, it could be attributable to a number of changes that were made but I would suspect the Iron supplement. I've never used these types of products on any of my tanks so I have no first hand knowledge but you are adding a new fertilizer to the ecology and so you should expect ecological changes. Didn't you have some kind of bloom (maybe it was an algae bloom but a bloom is a bloom is a bloom) when you added the fertilizer tablets/sticks in one of your other tanks a few months back? Next time, try to only do one new thing at a time and do NOT over clean your filters, especially right after increasing the bioload on a tank. It would have been OK to slightly over clean your filters a few days or so before you added more bioload to the tank but once you added them, you should have been more careful with your filter cleaning. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Amber Berglund Sent: Friday, July 24, 2009 8:00 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Amber's bacterial bloom yes it was the first time I used the flourish iron in this tank with it having soil in it, I had used it prior to switching the substrates. And yes, I may have over cleaned the filter, I was a bit over zealous at the time ;) LOL. Amber Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > > > I don't think snail poop, per se, would cause a bacterial bloom but > the "many" snails that you added at once could cause a slight > disruption in the ecology of the tank which could result in a > bacterial bloom. You did so many other things at once that it is > difficult to attribute this to the snails. Did you "over clean" your > filter? That could cause a bacterial bloom. Same with a PWC, if the > tap water was allowed to go directly into the intake of your filter. I > always put the Python furthest from any of my filter intakes to make > sure this does not happen. I'm not sure if the Flourish Iron would > cause this but it certainly is possible as you added something that > changed the overall ecology of the tank and maybe this particular > strain of bacteria/microbes liked the Iron and decided to go on a > breeding frenzy. Is this the first time you've used that product in > this tank? > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> (Links to any articles referenced in > above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels > and also under Archives by Year, Month) > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On Behalf Of Amber Berglund > Sent: Friday, July 24, 2009 10:44 AM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Snail behaviors > > Oh and speaking of snails... > Does a lot of snail poop in the water column cause a tank to turn > cloudy? I have no ammonia reading, or nitrite, and only very low > nitrates so far in my newly turned wastad 55 gallon NPT (natural > planted tank). Everything seems okay, but this cloudiness happened > after I did a "normal" PWC and filter cleaning, but I did add some > flourish iron to the water for my sword's.... > Any ideas? I've been posting on the el natural forums and everyone > says it sounds like a bacterial bloom, it's just a slight haziness to > the water, looks like it could be white (but it's under yellowish lighting) heh. > > Amber > > gail wrote: > > > > > > So, I have a few Mystery snails. I recently moved my black & my gold > > mystery snails to my 10 gallon, and the black one is thriving. He > > cruises around all big and bold. However, last night I noticed the > > black one was all over the gold one, and the gold one wasn't fully > > out of it's shell - but it's trap door (or foot) was open. Is this a > > strange mating ritual? The gold, one seems kind of shy, and hasn't > > been cruising around the tank like the more bold, black one. > > Any ideas on this behavior? > > > > Thanks > > > > Gail

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 42265	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 7/24/2009
Subject: Re: le sigh, le cloudiness

These probably are NOT nitrifying bacteria so that is why your nitrogen based tests are testing OK. Nitrifying bacteria are just one of hundreds or thousands of bacterial/microbial life forms that live in our tanks. Based on your other answers, I am leaning towards the boost in Iron in the water and one or more of the microbial life forms obviously felt the "need to breed" with this added Iron. As they utilize the added Iron, they will slow down and/or die off. After things settle down, try the Flourish Iron again and see if it happens again, of course by that time, you may have a larger colony of these microbes and they will not go into a water column bloom next time. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Amber Berglund Sent: Friday, July 24, 2009 8:09 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] le sigh, le cloudiness Also why am I testing zero on everything except nitrates if it's a bacteria bloom? That part confuses me, shouldn't this be a mini cycle too? Amber Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > > > Filters will NOT clear up a bacterial bloom unless you used a Diatom > filter or other advanced filtration that will remove microbe sized > particles. > Your > UV filter would kill the bacteria but this might not be a good thing > since you do not know what these bacteria are and whether they are > good or bad bacteria. > > As I asked in my earlier reply, is this the first time you added the > Flourish Iron? I would be more suspect of that than of the snails. How > long have the snails been in the tank... a week or two at least... right? > > Relax and DO NOT keep making changes. As I said in my earlier answer, > a bacterial bloom is due to a change in the ecology... just like "new > tank syndrome" when a tank is first set up or when other changes are > made to the ecology. > > I DO NOT think it's the snails directly but it could be related to them. > Are they eating up all the algae right now? If yes, then it's not the > snails directly but the fact that they are eating up the algae and > putting out additional waste so you are getting a double whammy to the > ecology.... a higher bioload and less plants (algae) to handle the > bioload. There were likely various microbiological life forms being > sustained within the algae and now that the algae is disappearing, > these microbes could also looking for a new place to call home... kind > of how wild animals come tramping through a neighborhood when there is > a forest fire or some other disruption to their home... or in your > case, SnailZilla is tramping through and eating their village. > > How long have the snail been in the tank? What was the fish bioload in > the tank prior to adding the snails? If you added enough snails at one > time, they would certainly have an impact on the bioload, especially > if they are eating up algae causing the double-whammy effect. > > You could also add some filter media from one of your other tanks, to > this tank, which might bring in the right kind of change to the > ecology to calm your little bacterial bloom down. > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> (Links to any articles referenced in > above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels > and also under Archives by Year, Month) > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On Behalf Of Amber Berglund > Sent: Friday, July 24, 2009 3:41 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Subject: [AquaticLife] le sigh, le cloudiness > > Okay, so my 55 gallon NPT (natural planted tank, soil substrate, > Walstad setup, etc), is having some sort of "bloom" in the water, > after testing with every test kit I own and everything reads 0 or > barely at all I'm not concerned that the tank is cycling, and the > water is white so it's not a green water bloom again. My ammonia reads > 0 on my API test kit, same with nitrite, and nitrate barely had a > reading over 0. At first my fish started acting oddly (hanging out at > the surface like they do with pH shock), but the pH was stable, hadn't > changed at all (it's still 7.2). So I increased the water flow in the > rena filstar xp 4 and cleaned the filter and the sponge over the > intake. > My one question is this, Could it be snail poop causing this cloudiness? > I know it sounds like a weird question but the tank has a lot of baby > briggs growing up in it as well as maybe 10-12 adults. I can move some > of the adults over to the 125 gallon now that they're nice and big, I > was just curious if this could be my problem. The filter is not > clearing up the cloudiness at all though, and I also removed the > crushed coral out of the filter yesterday when I cleaned it. > Help please :( > > pH 7.2 > Ammonia 0 > Nitrite 0 > Nitrate 5 ppm > KH 7 drops, so that's 126 ppm right? > GH 12 drops, 216 ppm? > Calcium, 80 ppm > Phosphate over 0, but under .1 > > Those were the tests done yesterday before removing anything from the > filter and cleaning it, I haven't tested yet today and I'm on lunch no > time right now so I will have to retest after work. > > Amber

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 42266	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 7/24/2009
Subject: Re: le sigh, le cloudiness

Do NOT clean your sponge filters with tap water. Just squeeze them out a few times in removed tank water. I'm guessing these are the sponge pre-filters over the intake tubes? If yes, they are actually your first line of nitrification since they would be getting first crack at any ammonia/nitrite as it passes through them. Loose sponge filters are the easiest kind to clean in some removed tank water as they can be squeezed over and over until they are rinsing mostly clean. Floss pads or filter cartridges are more difficult but should still only be rinsed in removed tank water... especially on a newly set up tank or one that recently had its bioload increased dramatically. All this said, since you are not getting any elevated nitrogen test results for ammonia or nitrite, this is not likely the cause of your bloom... unless by the time you tested, there were enough waterborne bacteria to consume the nitrogenous compounds but they just have not found a place to call home. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Amber Berglund Sent: Friday, July 24, 2009 8:04 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] le sigh, le cloudiness I cleaned like I always have, just swooshed things in the removed tank water a bit more than normal to get them extra clean. It's a white cloudiness, no coffee filters in the house or I'd try that test, but I'm sure I'd get something out of it if I did that test ;) LOL. I have been cleaning the sponges with tap water at the sink so I can spray them cleaner, could this have killed off my good bacteria? I still clean the filters with removed tap water... Amber biG poppa wrote: > > > Amber did you remove some of the water from the tank letting the water > splash in.do you have an air pump running? I read you cleaning out > your filter..bad idea trust me i learn that the hard way..did you use > tank water or tap water to clean the filters? also what kind of > cludiness(white,green,brown?) did you do the coffee filter test? i > took me like 3 weeks to clear up my tank > > --- On Fri, 7/24/09, Amber Berglund <arberglund@... > <mailto:arberglund%40gmail.com>> wrote: > > From: Amber Berglund <arberglund@... > <mailto:arberglund%40gmail.com>> > Subject: [AquaticLife] le sigh, le cloudiness > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Date: Friday, July 24, 2009, 4:40 PM > > > > Okay, so my 55 gallon NPT (natural planted tank, soil substrate, > Walstad setup, etc), is having some sort of "bloom" in the water, > after testing with every test kit I own and everything reads 0 or > barely at all I'm not concerned that the tank is cycling, and the > water is white so it's not a green water bloom again. My ammonia reads > 0 on my API test kit, same with nitrite, and nitrate barely had a > reading over 0. At first my fish started acting oddly (hanging out at > the surface like they do with pH shock), but the pH was stable, hadn't > changed at all (it's still 7.2). So I increased the water flow in the > rena filstar xp 4 and cleaned the filter and the sponge over the intake. > My one question is this, Could it be snail poop causing this cloudiness? > I know it sounds like a weird question but the tank has a lot of baby > briggs growing up in it as well as maybe 10-12 adults. I can move some > of the adults over to the 125 gallon now that they're nice and big, I > was just curious if this could be my problem. The filter is not > clearing up the cloudiness at all though, and I also removed the > crushed coral out of the filter yesterday when I cleaned it. > Help please :( > > pH 7.2 > Ammonia 0 > Nitrite 0 > Nitrate 5 ppm > KH 7 drops, so that's 126 ppm right? > GH 12 drops, 216 ppm? > Calcium, 80 ppm > Phosphate over 0, but under .1 > > Those were the tests done yesterday before removing anything from the > filter and cleaning it, I haven't tested yet today and I'm on lunch no > time right now so I will have to retest after work. > > Amber

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 42267	From: biG poppa	Date: 7/24/2009
Subject: Re: Amber's bacterial bloom

amber   dont fell bad i made the same mistake several times cleaning the filter --- On Fri, 7/24/09, Amber Berglund <arberglund@...> wrote: From: Amber Berglund <arberglund@...> Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Amber's bacterial bloom To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Date: Friday, July 24, 2009, 9:00 PM   yes it was the first time I used the flourish iron in this tank with it having soil in it, I had used it prior to switching the substrates. And yes, I may have over cleaned the filter, I was a bit over zealous at the time ;) LOL. Amber Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > > > I don't think snail poop, per se, would cause a bacterial bloom but the > "many" snails that you added at once could cause a slight disruption > in the > ecology of the tank which could result in a bacterial bloom. You did so > many other things at once that it is difficult to attribute this to the > snails. Did you "over clean" your filter? That could cause a bacterial > bloom. Same with a PWC, if the tap water was allowed to go directly into > the intake of your filter. I always put the Python furthest from any of my > filter intakes to make sure this does not happen. I'm not sure if the > Flourish Iron would cause this but it certainly is possible as you added > something that changed the overall ecology of the tank and maybe this > particular strain of bacteria/microbes liked the Iron and decided to > go on a > breeding frenzy. Is this the first time you've used that product in this > tank? > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com <http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com> > (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right > side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com > <mailto:AquaticLife %40yahoogroups. com> > [mailto:AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com > <mailto:AquaticLife %40yahoogroups. com>] On > Behalf Of Amber Berglund > Sent: Friday, July 24, 2009 10:44 AM > To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com <mailto:AquaticLife %40yahoogroups. com> > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Snail behaviors > > Oh and speaking of snails... > Does a lot of snail poop in the water column cause a tank to turn > cloudy? I > have no ammonia reading, or nitrite, and only very low nitrates so far > in my > newly turned wastad 55 gallon NPT (natural planted tank). Everything seems > okay, but this cloudiness happened after I did a "normal" PWC and filter > cleaning, but I did add some flourish iron to the water for my sword's.... > Any ideas? I've been posting on the el natural forums and everyone says it > sounds like a bacterial bloom, it's just a slight haziness to the water, > looks like it could be white (but it's under yellowish lighting) heh. > > Amber > > gail wrote: > > > > > > So, I have a few Mystery snails. I recently moved my black & my gold > > mystery snails to my 10 gallon, and the black one is thriving. He > > cruises around all big and bold. However, last night I noticed the > > black one was all over the gold one, and the gold one wasn't fully out > > of it's shell - but it's trap door (or foot) was open. Is this a > > strange mating ritual? The gold, one seems kind of shy, and hasn't > > been cruising around the tank like the more bold, black one. > > Any ideas on this behavior? > > > > Thanks > > > > Gail > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 42268	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 7/24/2009
Subject: Re: Sources for Rena4 Spraybar??

I do not use the valve on my spray bar. You could probably just use some black or gray PVC tubing (white PVC might not be as nice looking) of the right diameter and drill holes in it and cap one end to make the spray bar. This can be found in any big box home improvement store (Home Depot, Lowes, etc.). You will also be able to find L sections and 3 of them would make the inverted U (two of them to go over the tank and down into the water) and then the 3rd L to feed the spray bar attached to the L. If you have a plumber or handyman type friend, they could probably fix you up in a few minutes for just a few dollars, especially if they have scraps of the right sized pipe that you need. The L fittings might need to be purchased. All of my extra Rena parts are in my storage unit since after Katrina so I wouldn't even know where to look for them or I'd be happy to send you my extras (I haven't needed them in years)... but I use the spray bars myself so I would only have the other pieces available. Maybe another Rena Filstar user has their extra parts laying around handy. The spray bar is only one way of returning the water. Heck, you could just put an intake strainer on the PVC L and let the water just flow naturally out of the strainer if you do not want to drill the holes in a foot long section of PVC pipe and cap it. DAMN... I see what you mean about the near-rape prices they are charging for plastic parts at http://rena-aquatics-outlet.planetrena.com/050-Filstar-XP-Parts-All.html They do have the disclaimer where they say to gently bend over and look into your tank before ordering. ;-) Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Steve Biondi Sent: Friday, July 24, 2009 7:26 PM To: aquaticlife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Sources for Rena4 Spraybar?? Hi All, Wondering if anyone might know where I can get the entire spraybay attachments cheaply. I just bought a used Rena Filstar 4 for my 100. Unfortunately, it was missing the spraybar and tubing. Any ideas where to get the parts?.Planetrena is charging an arm and a leg for the new assembly. Is it easy to make a kind of do-it -yourself setup. Where would be the best place to get the tubing and valves? Is the spraybar unit absolutely necessary or is there another way to use the Rena? Thanks for the help. Steve

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 42269	From: pam andress	Date: 7/24/2009
Subject: Re: Catfish age

Both. I sure can't keep over 200 BN's. :) Pam To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com From: warrenprint@.... Date: Fri, 24 Jul 2009 16:28:27 -0700 Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Catfish age Are you selling fish Pam or just raising? Bill --- On Fri, 7/24/09, pam andress <pamandress23@...> wrote: From: pam andress <pamandress23@...> Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Catfish age To: aquaticlife@yahoogroups.com Date: Friday, July 24, 2009, 12:47 PM As Lenny said, it could have been stunted before you got it and with your care it is now growing well. It is hard to say how old it is, but most likely under a year. A lot depends on what size tank it was in prior to your getting it and how it was taken care of then. AND what size tank it is in now and how you are taking care of it now. The albinos that Amber got from me where born in a 55 gal, but where then moved to a 29 gal. So they did not grow as fast as they could have if they had stayed in the 55. I only have a few left from that time and I can't remember exactly when they where born. Right now I have about 200 baby brown BN's in a 55 gal. The only thing else in that tank are a few guppies, so they have a large tank to grow in at this time. I have also spread out some more browns in my other tanks so not all are in one. Pam Based on my research for my blog "How Long SHOULD Aquarium Fish Live? (An Expected Lifespan Guide For Fish Keepers)", http://goldlenny.blogspot.com/2007/02/how-long-should-aquarium-fish-live.htm l, BN Plecos *should* live as long as 20 years. Many, if not most catfish, are slow growers and will grow throughout a long part of their life, although the majority of any fishes growth will still be in the first few months to a year. Since yours is growing rapidly and is only 3" long, you can presume it's still under a year old. BN Plecos should grow to around 6" long, if they do not get stunted. Since yours is still growing rapidly, it's even more important to stick to a frequent and regular PWC schedule to remove/dilute the hormone levels which are a big cause of stunting and its related health issues. How big was it when you got it? A 1/2", an inch, or ??? Pam from this group breeds BN Plecos and could probably give you a better idea of its age range based on the size when you first got it and then you would know more precisely. Of course, it could have been partially stunted when you got it, if it was crammed into a tank with a lot of other growing fish and then when you moved it into your tank, which might be better maintained, it started growing quickly again. For example, this happened to me when, in July 2005, I adopted/rescued what turned out to be a *Common Pleco* (mine ended up being a Liposarcus pardalis which should grow to over 18") that had been living in a 10G tank with a bunch of other fish for its first two years. After 2 years in the 10G tank, this L. pardalis was only around 4" long (severely stunted). I moved it into my 65G tank as a temporary home while I was planning for a much larger tank (then Katrina hit us) and in the 18 months that I kept it in the 65G tank, it grew 6" to where it was 10" long. At that point, since I was not going to be able to get any larger tanks, I rehomed the guy to my LFS and he was sold the next day to someone with a BIG Cichlid tank. I hope he's growing even more and doing well. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Lisa Sent: Friday, July 24, 2009 7:10 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Catfish age Alright. I have a bn catfish, albino, male, aprox 3 inches in lenght from nose to tip Is there any sure way of telling roughly what age he is? Ive had him for about 4 - 5 months, and since then he has grown quite a bit.. Lisa [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] ------------------------------------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the home page. Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com to receive the digest, which includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com for the No E-Mail option where you will still be able to read messages on the group and post replies. Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com to receive individual e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 42270	From: Dora Smith	Date: 7/24/2009
Subject: Nathaniel the Fish feels neglected

I posted Nathaniel's betta pellet review, and everyone ignored it. Yours, Dora Smith Austin, TX tiggernut24@...

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 42271	From: Dora Smith	Date: 7/24/2009
Subject: Re: [Bulk] Re: [AquaticLife] le sigh, le cloudiness

Well, in my experience, usually some sort of a sour smell goes with the water going white. Yours, Dora Smith Austin, TX tiggernut24@... ----- Original Message ----- From: "Amber Berglund" <arberglund@...> To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Friday, July 24, 2009 8:14 PM Subject: [Bulk] Re: [AquaticLife] le sigh, le cloudiness > Okay sounds good ;) LOL. > And yes, the tank smells like dirt, I couldn't quite place it, but since > it has dirt in the substrate I'd expect some dirt smell too! LOL. > > Amber > > Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: >> >> >> I think the name of the "smell" for what a fish tank should smell like is >> "Earthy"... like the smell of clean dirt (isn't that an oxymoron?). If it >> starts to smell too fishy or funky, then there's something else going on. >> >> Oh yeah... your math appears correct for you GH and KH tests. You should >> just get used to using dH (degrees of Hardness) so that the drops >> equal the >> same number of dH so 7 drops would be 7 dH for KH and 12 drops would be >> 12 >> dH for GH. Most of the good profiles, like those on Mongabay, use the dH >> terminology for suggested water parameters for the fish in the profile. >> If >> anyone ever asks what the dH translates out to, let them multiply the dH >> number by 18. ;-) >> >> Lenny Vasbinder >> Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> >> (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right >> side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com >> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> >> [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com >> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On >> Behalf Of Amber Berglund >> Sent: Friday, July 24, 2009 4:16 PM >> To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> >> Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] le sigh, le cloudiness >> >> Well the light is currently off for mid day siesta, but I will look at >> the >> water cloudiness after work tonight and update. It looks like it's just >> dirty cloudy white water to me, nothing suspended, but there are some >> particles floating around, most look like poop, LOL. ;) The water smells >> fine, not bad at least, it smells like most of my fish tanks smell like >> ;) >> fishy LOL. >> >> Amber >> >> Dora Smith wrote: >> > >> > >> > Amber, maybe this is a dumb question, but what does the water smell >> like? >> > >> > Also, is the water cloudy like in cloudy or changed color, or like in >> > little particles suspended in the water? >> > >> > If whatever is causing the bloom is feeding on nitrates and/or >> > phosphate, that could cause those levels to be low. >> > >> > Yours, >> > Dora Smith >> > Austin, TX >> > tiggernut24@... <mailto:tiggernut24%40yahoo.com> >> <mailto:tiggernut24%40yahoo.com> >> > >> > ----- Original Message ----- >> > From: "Amber Berglund" <arberglund@... >> <mailto:arberglund%40gmail.com> >> > <mailto:arberglund%40gmail.com>> >> > To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> >> > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>> >> > Sent: Friday, July 24, 2009 3:40 PM >> > Subject: [AquaticLife] le sigh, le cloudiness >> > >> > Okay, so my 55 gallon NPT (natural planted tank, soil substrate, >> > Walstad setup, etc), is having some sort of "bloom" in the water, >> > after testing with every test kit I own and everything reads 0 or >> > barely at all I'm not concerned that the tank is cycling, and the >> > water is white so it's not a green water bloom again. My ammonia reads >> > 0 on my API test kit, same with nitrite, and nitrate barely had a >> > reading over 0. At first my fish started acting oddly (hanging out at >> > the surface like they do with pH shock), but the pH was stable, hadn't >> > changed at all (it's still 7.2). So I increased the water flow in the >> > rena filstar xp 4 and cleaned the filter and the sponge over the >> > intake. >> > My one question is this, Could it be snail poop causing this >> > cloudiness? >> > I know it sounds like a weird question but the tank has a lot of baby >> > briggs growing up in it as well as maybe 10-12 adults. I can move some >> > of the adults over to the 125 gallon now that they're nice and big, I >> > was just curious if this could be my problem. The filter is not >> > clearing up the cloudiness at all though, and I also removed the >> > crushed coral out of the filter yesterday when I cleaned it. >> > Help please :( >> > >> > pH 7.2 >> > Ammonia 0 >> > Nitrite 0 >> > Nitrate 5 ppm >> > KH 7 drops, so that's 126 ppm right? >> > GH 12 drops, 216 ppm? >> > Calcium, 80 ppm >> > Phosphate over 0, but under .1 >> > >> > Those were the tests done yesterday before removing anything from the >> > filter and cleaning it, I haven't tested yet today and I'm on lunch no >> > time right now so I will have to retest after work. >> > >> > Amber >> >> > > > ------------------------------------ > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. > ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> > PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to > the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the > SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- > <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. > > If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of unsubscribing, you > can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the > home page. > > Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com to receive the digest, which > includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email > > Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com for the No E-Mail option where > you will still be able to read messages on the group and post replies. > > Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com to receive individual > e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links > > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 42272	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 7/24/2009
Subject: Re: le sigh, le cloudiness

I have been cleaning the sponge prefilter and the home made prefilter made out of floss pads and zip ties with the tap water for over 2 weeks now, since I put them on. I would have assumed that would have affected my nitrifying bacteria awhile ago by now... Maybe I've just been lucky? Amber Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > > > Do NOT clean your sponge filters with tap water. Just squeeze them out a > few times in removed tank water. I'm guessing these are the sponge > pre-filters over the intake tubes? If yes, they are actually your first > line of nitrification since they would be getting first crack at any > ammonia/nitrite as it passes through them. Loose sponge filters are the > easiest kind to clean in some removed tank water as they can be squeezed > over and over until they are rinsing mostly clean. Floss pads or filter > cartridges are more difficult but should still only be rinsed in removed > tank water... especially on a newly set up tank or one that recently > had its > bioload increased dramatically. > > All this said, since you are not getting any elevated nitrogen test > results > for ammonia or nitrite, this is not likely the cause of your bloom... > unless > by the time you tested, there were enough waterborne bacteria to > consume the > nitrogenous compounds but they just have not found a place to call home. > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right > side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On > Behalf Of Amber Berglund > Sent: Friday, July 24, 2009 8:04 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] le sigh, le cloudiness > > I cleaned like I always have, just swooshed things in the removed tank > water > a bit more than normal to get them extra clean. It's a white > cloudiness, no > coffee filters in the house or I'd try that test, but I'm sure I'd get > something out of it if I did that test ;) LOL. > I have been cleaning the sponges with tap water at the sink so I can spray > them cleaner, could this have killed off my good bacteria? I still > clean the > filters with removed tap water... > > Amber > > biG poppa wrote: > > > > > > Amber did you remove some of the water from the tank letting the water > > splash in.do you have an air pump running? I read you cleaning out > > your filter..bad idea trust me i learn that the hard way..did you use > > tank water or tap water to clean the filters? also what kind of > > cludiness(white,green,brown?) did you do the coffee filter test? i > > took me like 3 weeks to clear up my tank > > > > --- On Fri, 7/24/09, Amber Berglund <arberglund@... > <mailto:arberglund%40gmail.com> > > <mailto:arberglund%40gmail.com>> wrote: > > > > From: Amber Berglund <arberglund@... > <mailto:arberglund%40gmail.com> > > <mailto:arberglund%40gmail.com>> > > Subject: [AquaticLife] le sigh, le cloudiness > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > Date: Friday, July 24, 2009, 4:40 PM > > > > > > > > Okay, so my 55 gallon NPT (natural planted tank, soil substrate, > > Walstad setup, etc), is having some sort of "bloom" in the water, > > after testing with every test kit I own and everything reads 0 or > > barely at all I'm not concerned that the tank is cycling, and the > > water is white so it's not a green water bloom again. My ammonia reads > > 0 on my API test kit, same with nitrite, and nitrate barely had a > > reading over 0. At first my fish started acting oddly (hanging out at > > the surface like they do with pH shock), but the pH was stable, hadn't > > changed at all (it's still 7.2). So I increased the water flow in the > > rena filstar xp 4 and cleaned the filter and the sponge over the intake. > > My one question is this, Could it be snail poop causing this cloudiness? > > I know it sounds like a weird question but the tank has a lot of baby > > briggs growing up in it as well as maybe 10-12 adults. I can move some > > of the adults over to the 125 gallon now that they're nice and big, I > > was just curious if this could be my problem. The filter is not > > clearing up the cloudiness at all though, and I also removed the > > crushed coral out of the filter yesterday when I cleaned it. > > Help please :( > > > > pH 7.2 > > Ammonia 0 > > Nitrite 0 > > Nitrate 5 ppm > > KH 7 drops, so that's 126 ppm right? > > GH 12 drops, 216 ppm? > > Calcium, 80 ppm > > Phosphate over 0, but under .1 > > > > Those were the tests done yesterday before removing anything from the > > filter and cleaning it, I haven't tested yet today and I'm on lunch no > > time right now so I will have to retest after work. > > > > Amber > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 42273	From: pam andress	Date: 7/24/2009
Subject: Re: Nathaniel the Fish feels neglected

I read it, I just don't have betta's anymore. I'm sorry the betta feels neglected. :( Give him a extra pellet just from me. Pam To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com From: tiggernut24@... Date: Fri, 24 Jul 2009 20:55:57 -0500 Subject: [AquaticLife] Nathaniel the Fish feels neglected I posted Nathaniel's betta pellet review, and everyone ignored it. Yours, Dora Smith Austin, TX tiggernut24@... [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 42274	From: toddswoman496861@aim.com	Date: 7/24/2009
Subject: Re: Pam

what are your prices Pam? for a couple of them. I need something to help control algae in my 10 gallon tank.? I have 3 guppies in the tank at the moment. Kate Dale -----Original Message----- From: pam andress <pamandress23@...> To: aquaticlife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Fri, Jul 24, 2009 9:29 pm Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Catfish age Both. I sure can't keep over 200 BN's. :) Pam terms/ [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 42275	From: Gwydryn@aol.com	Date: 7/24/2009
Subject: Re: Nathaniel the Fish feels neglected

In a message dated 7/24/2009 10:58:11 P.M. Central Daylight Time, pamandress23@... writes: I read it, I just don't have betta's anymore. I'm sorry the betta feels neglected. :( Give him a extra pellet just from me. Pam I read it, but I was getting my betas all bloated with prepared foods, I got around the heat issue by keeping a green bucket under a tree, just yesterday I brought in a net full of wrigglers and the 6 betas and 4 blue gouramis that I keep in a 30 gallon had a feast. And yes they all get along and they don't fight. There is occasional posturing, but no all out melee since I put them all in there 3 months ago. Enid "Life is not about waiting for the storms to pass...it's about learning how to dance in the rain." **************An Excellent Credit Score is 750. See Yours in Just 2 Easy Steps! (http://pr.atwola.com/promoclk/100126575x1222585106x1201462830/aol?redir=http://www.freecreditreport.com/pm/default.aspx?sc=668072&hmpgID=62&bcd=Jul yExcfooterNO62) [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 42276	From: Dora Smith	Date: 7/24/2009
Subject: Re: Amber's bacterial bloom

I avoid it by running two filters with a prefilter pad in each, and a bag of those little plastic substrate balls. Yours, Dora Smith Austin, TX tiggernut24@... ----- Original Message ----- amber dont fell bad i made the same mistake several times cleaning the filter --- On Fri, 7/24/09, Amber wrote: yes it was the first time I used the flourish iron in this tank with it having soil in it, I had used it prior to switching the substrates. And yes, I may have over cleaned the filter, I was a bit over zealous at the time ;) LOL. Amber ------------------------------------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 42277	From: Dora Smith	Date: 7/24/2009
Subject: Re: Nathaniel the Fish feels neglected

If my housemates were to see me with a dedicated mosquito larva farm, I'd be dead. I'm lucky I get away with the algae rock farm. Thanks folks. :) But we had a serious discussion of what kind of pellets bettas like to eat a month or two ago. Everyone said bettas will only eat hikari pellets, so I thought people would like to know that mine prefers ocean nutrition pellets. Between the lack of mosquito larvae, and the bother involved in thawing out frozen blood worms, my betta wasn't getting fed. Now atleast he is, and he's far happier. Yours, Dora Smith Austin, TX tiggernut24@...

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 42278	From: greychildren	Date: 7/25/2009
Subject: plants question

Hello all I have a question regarding plants.... What plants live in for example your back yard that can survive in an aquarium(sorry guys i don't know a botanist)? or can you direct me toward a website for i can find some info.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 42279	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 7/25/2009
Subject: Re: plants question

Unless you have an aquatic environment in your backyard, none. If you do have such an environment, the further north you are, the less success you would have with most plants, since our aquariums would provide a too warm environment for them. Should you be fortunate to live in the south, and there are acceptable plants, they would, like fish, require a quarantine period following a cleaning procedure involving alum or potassium permanganate to ensure they are not bringing any nasties into your aquarium environment. \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of greychildren Sent: Saturday, July 25, 2009 2:12 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] plants question Hello all I have a question regarding plants.... What plants live in for example your back yard that can survive in an aquarium(sorry guys i don't know a botanist)? or can you direct me toward a website for i can find some info.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 42280	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 7/25/2009
Subject: Re: plants question

None. Terrestrial plants are not Aquarium plants. Some pet stores will sell things like Mondo Grass (the most common one that I've seen) as an aquarium plant but it's a terrestrial plant and will shortly die off and rot underwater. It can survive as a bog plant in a couple of inches of water and possibly even in a tidal area where it is submerged for short periods of time but then re-exposed to air, but that's about it. Now... if you have a pond or lake in your back yard, most of the plants found in the pond or lake would likely be OK in your aquarium after you sanitize and quarantine them first. I have also seen people put the opposite of a "window box" inside the back of their aquarium so that the terrestrial plants are growing in pots but the roots still help to suck up nutrients from the tank. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of greychildren Sent: Saturday, July 25, 2009 1:12 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] plants question Hello all I have a question regarding plants.... What plants live in for example your back yard that can survive in an aquarium(sorry guys i don't know a botanist)? or can you direct me toward a website for i can find some info.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 42281	From: rosette55@webtv.net	Date: 7/25/2009
Subject: Bio-Orbs

i gave up my 29 gallon when i moved a few years ago. i was browsing at petsMart and saw the Bi-Orb. what is this, just a glorified fish bowl? anyone have one? i couldn't tell from the box, but it appeared to have an undergravel filter?? how would you heat it? thanks, Samantha

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 42282	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 7/25/2009
Subject: Re: Bio-Orbs

Bio-Orbs http://www.biorbfishtanks.com/index.aspx look pretty, in a European art-deco sort of way, but I think they are WAY overpriced. You can get an entire 55G kit at WalMart for around $150.00, the last time I looked. That includes tank, filter system, heater, lighting and other stuff. All you would need is some inexpensive pea gravel for a 1" substrate, do a "Fishless Cycle" and you're ready to add fish in as little as a few weeks.... oh yeah, and a stand too but a DIY stand can be made for around $20.00 or the right kind of sturdy furniture or buy an aquarium specific stand. Yes, they have under gravel filtration. As far as heating it, you would need a heater for it like any other tropical fish tank. Bio-Orb sells their own heater but any submersible aquarium heater would do. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of rosette55@... Sent: Saturday, July 25, 2009 1:20 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Bio-Orbs i gave up my 29 gallon when i moved a few years ago. i was browsing at petsMart and saw the Bi-Orb. what is this, just a glorified fish bowl? anyone have one? i couldn't tell from the box, but it appeared to have an undergravel filter?? how would you heat it? thanks, Samantha

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 42283	From: harry perry	Date: 7/25/2009
Subject: Invasive species of Florida

Please don't let your fish go. The native species have to compete with all this to survive. There is probably more than this. Also invasive plants. Harry   Here is a list of fishes reproducing in Florida waters 1 Brown Hoplo Hoplosternum littorale Callicthyidae 2 Bullseye Snakehead Channa marulius Channidae 3 Oscar Astronotus ocellatus Cichlidae 4 Butterfly Peacock3 Cichla ocellaris Cichlidae 5 Black Acara Cichlasoma bimaculatum Cichlidae 6 Midas Cichlid Cichlasoma citrinellum Cichlidae 7 Rio Grande Cichlid 4 Cichlasoma cyanoguttatum Cichlidae 8 Jaguar Guapote Cichlasoma managuense Cichlidae 9 Mayan Cichlid Cichlasoma urophthalmus Cichlidae 10 Redstriped Eartheater Geophagus surinamensis Cichlidae 11 African Jewelfish Hemichromis bimaculatus Cichlidae 12 Blue Tilapia Oreochromis aureus3 Cichlidae 13 Mozambique Tilapia Oreochromis mossambicus3 Cichlidae 14 Blackchin Tilapia Sarotherodon melanotheron3 Cichlidae 15 Spotted Tilapia Tilapia mariae Cichlidae 16 Walking Catfish Clarias batrachus Clariidae 17 Common Carp Cyprinus carpio Cyprinidae 18 Suckermouth Catfish Hypostomus sp. Loricariidae 19 Vermiculated Sailfin Pterygoplicthys disjunctivus Loricariidae 20 Sailfin Catfish Pterygoplicthys multiradiatus Loricariidae 21 Pike Killifish Belonesox belizanus Poeciliidae 22 Swamp Eel Monopterus albus Synbranchidae Possibly Established (n = 10; reproducing species not considered to have achieved the status of permanence; i.e., populations that might be eliminated by man or natural causes). 1 Croaking Gourami Trichopsis vittata Anabantidae 2 Firemouth Cichlid Cichlasoma meeki Cichlidae 3 Jack Dempsey Cichlasoma octofasciatum Cichlidae 4 Yellowbelly Cichlid Cichlasoma salvini Cichlidae 5 Eastern Happy Haplochromis callipterus Cichlidae 6 No Common Name Theraps hybrid Cichlidae 7 Oriental Weatherfish Misgurnus anguillicaudatus Cobitidae 8 Spotfin Spinyeel Macrognathus siamensis Mastacembelidae 9 Clown Knifefish Notopterus chitala Notopteridae 10 Variable Platyfish Xiphophorus variatus Poeciliidae Formerly Reproducing (n=11; illegally introduced populations intentionally eliminated by man indicated by an asterisk*). 1 Climbing Perch Anabas testudineus Anabantidae 2 Siamese Fightingfish Betta splendens Anabantidae 3 Twospot Ctenopoma Ctenopoma nigropannosum Anabantidae 4 Trahira Hoplias malabaricus Characidae 5 Pirambeba* Serrasalmus humeralis Characidae 6 Convict Cichlid* Cichlasoma nigrofasciatum Cichlidae 7 Threespot Cichlid* Cichlasoma trimaculatum Cichlidae 8 Redbelly Tilapia* Tilapia zilli Cichlidae 9 Guppy Poecilia reticulata Poeciliidae 10 Green Swordtail Xiphophorus helleri Poeciliidae 11 Southern Platyfish Xiphophorus maculatus Poeciliidae Reported Fishes (n = 43; species collected without evidence of reproduction) . 1 Banded Gourami Colisa fasciata Anabantidae 2 Thicklip Gourami Colisa labiosa Anabantidae 3 Dwarf Gourami Colisa lalia Anabantidae 4 Kissing Gourami Helostoma temmincki Anabantidae 5 Paradisefish Macropodus opercularis Anabantidae 6 Pearl Gourami Trichogaster leeri Anabantidae 7 Threespot Gourami Trichogaster trichopterus Anabantidae 8 Cascarudo Callichthys callichthys Callichthyidae 9 Corydoras Corydoras Callichthyidae 10 Northern Snakehead Channa argus Channidae 11 Tambaqui (Pacu) Colossoma macropomum Characidae 12 Pirapatinga Piractus brachypomus Characidae 13 Black Tetra Gymnocorymbus ternetzi Characidae 14 Banded Leporinus Leporinus fasciatus Characidae 15 Silver Dollar Metynnis hypsauchen Characidae 16 Red Piranha Pygocentrus nattereri Characidae 17 Redeye Piranha Serrasalmus rhombeus Characidae 18 Blue Acara Aequidens pulcher Cichlidae 19 Speckled Peacock3 Cichla temensis Cichlidae 20 Pearl Eartheater Geophagus brasiliensis Cichlidae 21 Banded Cichlid Heros severus Cichlidae 22 Freshwater Angelfish Pterophyllum scalare Cichlidae 23 Banded Tilapia Tilapia sparrmani Cichlidae 24 Red Tilapia3 Tilapia hybrid Cichlidae 25 Tinfoil Barb Barbodes schwanefeldi Cyprinidae 26 Goldfish Carassius auratus Cyprinidae 27 Grass Carp Ctenopharyngodon idella Cyprinidae 28 Malabar Danio Danio malabaricus Cyprinidae 29 Zebra Danio Danio rerio Cyprinidae 30 Bighead Carp Hypophthalmichthys nobilis Cyprinidae 31 Black Sharkminnow Labeo chrysophekadion Cyprinidae 32 Rosy Barb Puntius conchonius Cyprinidae 33 Dwarf Barb Puntius gelius Cyprinidae 34 Tiger Barb Puntius tetrazona Cyprinidae 35 Raphael Catfish Platydoras costatus Doradidae 36 Ripsaw Catfish Pseudodoras niger Doradidae 37 Granulated Catfish Pterodoras granulosus Doradidae 38 Bristlecheek Catfish Ancistrus sp Loricarridae 39 Arawana Osteoglossum bicirrhosum Osteoglossidae 40 Black Molly3 Poecilia hybrid Poeciliidae 41 Redtail Catfish Phractocephalus hemioliopterus Pimelodidae 42 Barred Bichir Polypterus delhezi Polypteridae 43 Swai Pangasius sutchi Schilbidae [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 42284	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 7/25/2009
Subject: Re: Nathaniel the Fish feels neglected

It's not that hard to thaw out the frozen worms, just put them in a small cup of water and wait a minute or so. Use tank water if you prefer, since it's warm to start with ;) hehe. That's how I feed my frozen foods to my fish. My betta eats whatever I feed the other fish, whether it's frozen blood worms, mysis shrimp, brine shrimp, or my jello food mixture he loves it all ;) but I give him a day break between feedings so he doesn't get bloated or constipated either. Amber Dora Smith wrote: > > > If my housemates were to see me with a dedicated mosquito larva farm, > I'd be > dead. I'm lucky I get away with the algae rock farm. > > Thanks folks. :) > > But we had a serious discussion of what kind of pellets bettas like to > eat a > month or two ago. Everyone said bettas will only eat hikari pellets, so I > thought people would like to know that mine prefers ocean nutrition > pellets. > > Between the lack of mosquito larvae, and the bother involved in > thawing out > frozen blood worms, my betta wasn't getting fed. Now atleast he is, and > he's far happier. > Yours, > Dora Smith > Austin, TX > tiggernut24@... <mailto:tiggernut24%40yahoo.com> > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 42285	From: biG poppa	Date: 7/25/2009
Subject: Re: Invasive species of Florida

Never i give them away before i do that.....looks like a fish store list doesnt? --- On Sat, 7/25/09, harry perry <harryfisherman@...> wrote: From: harry perry <harryfisherman@...> Subject: [AquaticLife] Invasive species of Florida To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Date: Saturday, July 25, 2009, 6:20 PM   Please don't let your fish go. The native species have to compete with all this to survive. There is probably more than this. Also invasive plants. Harry   Here is a list of fishes reproducing in Florida waters 1 Brown Hoplo Hoplosternum littorale Callicthyidae 2 Bullseye Snakehead Channa marulius Channidae 3 Oscar Astronotus ocellatus Cichlidae 4 Butterfly Peacock3 Cichla ocellaris Cichlidae 5 Black Acara Cichlasoma bimaculatum Cichlidae 6 Midas Cichlid Cichlasoma citrinellum Cichlidae 7 Rio Grande Cichlid 4 Cichlasoma cyanoguttatum Cichlidae 8 Jaguar Guapote Cichlasoma managuense Cichlidae 9 Mayan Cichlid Cichlasoma urophthalmus Cichlidae 10 Redstriped Eartheater Geophagus surinamensis Cichlidae 11 African Jewelfish Hemichromis bimaculatus Cichlidae 12 Blue Tilapia Oreochromis aureus3 Cichlidae 13 Mozambique Tilapia Oreochromis mossambicus3 Cichlidae 14 Blackchin Tilapia Sarotherodon melanotheron3 Cichlidae 15 Spotted Tilapia Tilapia mariae Cichlidae 16 Walking Catfish Clarias batrachus Clariidae 17 Common Carp Cyprinus carpio Cyprinidae 18 Suckermouth Catfish Hypostomus sp. Loricariidae 19 Vermiculated Sailfin Pterygoplicthys disjunctivus Loricariidae 20 Sailfin Catfish Pterygoplicthys multiradiatus Loricariidae 21 Pike Killifish Belonesox belizanus Poeciliidae 22 Swamp Eel Monopterus albus Synbranchidae Possibly Established (n = 10; reproducing species not considered to have achieved the status of permanence; i.e., populations that might be eliminated by man or natural causes). 1 Croaking Gourami Trichopsis vittata Anabantidae 2 Firemouth Cichlid Cichlasoma meeki Cichlidae 3 Jack Dempsey Cichlasoma octofasciatum Cichlidae 4 Yellowbelly Cichlid Cichlasoma salvini Cichlidae 5 Eastern Happy Haplochromis callipterus Cichlidae 6 No Common Name Theraps hybrid Cichlidae 7 Oriental Weatherfish Misgurnus anguillicaudatus Cobitidae 8 Spotfin Spinyeel Macrognathus siamensis Mastacembelidae 9 Clown Knifefish Notopterus chitala Notopteridae 10 Variable Platyfish Xiphophorus variatus Poeciliidae Formerly Reproducing (n=11; illegally introduced populations intentionally eliminated by man indicated by an asterisk*). 1 Climbing Perch Anabas testudineus Anabantidae 2 Siamese Fightingfish Betta splendens Anabantidae 3 Twospot Ctenopoma Ctenopoma nigropannosum Anabantidae 4 Trahira Hoplias malabaricus Characidae 5 Pirambeba* Serrasalmus humeralis Characidae 6 Convict Cichlid* Cichlasoma nigrofasciatum Cichlidae 7 Threespot Cichlid* Cichlasoma trimaculatum Cichlidae 8 Redbelly Tilapia* Tilapia zilli Cichlidae 9 Guppy Poecilia reticulata Poeciliidae 10 Green Swordtail Xiphophorus helleri Poeciliidae 11 Southern Platyfish Xiphophorus maculatus Poeciliidae Reported Fishes (n = 43; species collected without evidence of reproduction) . 1 Banded Gourami Colisa fasciata Anabantidae 2 Thicklip Gourami Colisa labiosa Anabantidae 3 Dwarf Gourami Colisa lalia Anabantidae 4 Kissing Gourami Helostoma temmincki Anabantidae 5 Paradisefish Macropodus opercularis Anabantidae 6 Pearl Gourami Trichogaster leeri Anabantidae 7 Threespot Gourami Trichogaster trichopterus Anabantidae 8 Cascarudo Callichthys callichthys Callichthyidae 9 Corydoras Corydoras Callichthyidae 10 Northern Snakehead Channa argus Channidae 11 Tambaqui (Pacu) Colossoma macropomum Characidae 12 Pirapatinga Piractus brachypomus Characidae 13 Black Tetra Gymnocorymbus ternetzi Characidae 14 Banded Leporinus Leporinus fasciatus Characidae 15 Silver Dollar Metynnis hypsauchen Characidae 16 Red Piranha Pygocentrus nattereri Characidae 17 Redeye Piranha Serrasalmus rhombeus Characidae 18 Blue Acara Aequidens pulcher Cichlidae 19 Speckled Peacock3 Cichla temensis Cichlidae 20 Pearl Eartheater Geophagus brasiliensis Cichlidae 21 Banded Cichlid Heros severus Cichlidae 22 Freshwater Angelfish Pterophyllum scalare Cichlidae 23 Banded Tilapia Tilapia sparrmani Cichlidae 24 Red Tilapia3 Tilapia hybrid Cichlidae 25 Tinfoil Barb Barbodes schwanefeldi Cyprinidae 26 Goldfish Carassius auratus Cyprinidae 27 Grass Carp Ctenopharyngodon idella Cyprinidae 28 Malabar Danio Danio malabaricus Cyprinidae 29 Zebra Danio Danio rerio Cyprinidae 30 Bighead Carp Hypophthalmichthys nobilis Cyprinidae 31 Black Sharkminnow Labeo chrysophekadion Cyprinidae 32 Rosy Barb Puntius conchonius Cyprinidae 33 Dwarf Barb Puntius gelius Cyprinidae 34 Tiger Barb Puntius tetrazona Cyprinidae 35 Raphael Catfish Platydoras costatus Doradidae 36 Ripsaw Catfish Pseudodoras niger Doradidae 37 Granulated Catfish Pterodoras granulosus Doradidae 38 Bristlecheek Catfish Ancistrus sp Loricarridae 39 Arawana Osteoglossum bicirrhosum Osteoglossidae 40 Black Molly3 Poecilia hybrid Poeciliidae 41 Redtail Catfish Phractocephalus hemioliopterus Pimelodidae 42 Barred Bichir Polypterus delhezi Polypteridae 43 Swai Pangasius sutchi Schilbidae [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 42286	From: Menagerie_Manager	Date: 7/25/2009
Subject: 65G tank setup in SE Michigan spotted on eBay

In case anyone is looking for a 65G tank with cabinet and supplies. This one is pick up only in Waterford. It's currently going for $40. http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=250471851246&fromMakeTrack=true&ssPageName=VIP:watchlink:top:en OR http://preview.tinyurl.com/nv2edz DebR and the Three Goldfish (CB, Lucille, and Raven) [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 42287	From: Deenerz@aol.com	Date: 7/25/2009
Subject: Re: Invasive species of Florida

Hi Harry, We have to give credit on the Oscars to Florida Fish and Game. -Mike Original Message----- From: harry perry <harryfisherman@...> To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Sat, Jul 25, 2009 3:20 pm Subject: [AquaticLife] Invasive species of Florida Please don't let your fish go. The native species have to compete with all this to survive. There is probably more than this. Also invasive plants. Harry   Here is a list of fishes reproducing in Florida waters 1 Brown Hoplo Hoplosternum littorale Callicthyidae 2 Bullseye Snakehead Channa marulius Channidae 3 Oscar Astronotus ocellatus Cichlidae 4 Butterfly Peacock3 Cichla ocellaris Cichlidae 5 Black Acara Cichlasoma bimaculatum Cichlidae 6 Midas Cichlid Cichlasoma citrinellum Cichlidae 7 Rio Grande Cichlid 4 Cichlasoma cyanoguttatum Cichlidae 8 Jaguar Guapote Cichlasoma managuense Cichlidae 9 Mayan Cichlid Cichlasoma urophthalmus Cichlidae 10 Redstriped Eartheater Geophagus surinamensis Cichlidae 11 African Jewelfish Hemichromis bimaculatus Cichlidae 12 Blue Tilapia Oreochromis aureus3 Cichlidae 13 Mozambique Tilapia Oreochromis mossambicus3 Cichlidae 14 Blackchin Tilapia Sarotherodon melanotheron3 Cichlidae 15 Spotted Tilapia Tilapia mariae Cichlidae 16 Walking Catfish Clarias batrachus Clariidae 17 Common Carp Cyprinus carpio Cyprinidae 18 Suckermouth Catfish Hypostomus sp. Loricariidae 19 Vermiculated Sailfin Pterygoplicthys disjunctivus Loricariidae 20 Sailfin Catfish Pterygoplicthys multiradiatus Loricar iidae 21 Pike Killifish Belonesox belizanus Poeciliidae 22 Swamp Eel Monopterus albus Synbranchidae Possibly Established (n = 10; reproducing species not considered to have achieved the status of permanence; i.e., populations that might be eliminated by man or natural causes). 1 Croaking Gourami Trichopsis vittata Anabantidae 2 Firemouth Cichlid Cichlasoma meeki Cichlidae 3 Jack Dempsey Cichlasoma octofasciatum Cichlidae 4 Yellowbelly Cichlid Cichlasoma salvini Cichlidae 5 Eastern Happy Haplochromis callipterus Cichlidae 6 No Common Name Theraps hybrid Cichlidae 7 Oriental Weatherfish Misgurnus anguillicaudatus Cobitidae 8 Spotfin Spinyeel Macrognathus siamensis Mastacembelidae 9 Clown Knifefish Notopterus chitala Notopteridae 10 Variable Platyfish Xiphophorus variatus Poeciliidae Formerly Reproducing (n=11; illegally introduced populations intentionally eliminated by man indicated by an asterisk*). 1 Climbing Perch Anabas testudineus Anabantidae 2 Siamese Fightingfish Betta splendens Anabantidae 3 Twospot Ctenopoma Ctenopoma nigropannosum Anabantidae 4 Trahira Hoplias malabaricus Characidae 5 Pirambeba* Serrasalmus humeralis Characidae 6 Convict Cichlid* Cichlasoma nigrofasciatum Cichlidae 7 Threespot Cichlid* Cichlasoma trimaculatum Cichlidae 8 Redbelly Tilapia* Tilapia zilli Cichlidae 9 Guppy Poecilia reticulata Poeciliidae 10 Green Swordtail Xiphophorus helleri Poeciliidae 11 Southern Platyfish Xiphophorus maculatus Poeciliidae Reported Fishes (n = 43; species collected without eviden ce of reproduction) . 1 Banded Gourami Colisa fasciata Anabantidae 2 Thicklip Gourami Colisa labiosa Anabantidae 3 Dwarf Gourami Colisa lalia Anabantidae 4 Kissing Gourami Helostoma temmincki Anabantidae 5 Paradisefish Macropodus opercularis Anabantidae 6 Pearl Gourami Trichogaster leeri Anabantidae 7 Threespot Gourami Trichogaster trichopterus Anabantidae 8 Cascarudo Callichthys callichthys Callichthyidae 9 Corydoras Corydoras Callichthyidae 10 Northern Snakehead Channa argus Channidae 11 Tambaqui (Pacu) Colossoma macropomum Characidae 12 Pirapatinga Piractus brachypomus Characidae 13 Black Tetra Gymnocorymbus ternetzi Characidae 14 Banded Leporinus Leporinus fasciatus Characidae 15 Silver Dollar Metynnis hypsauchen Characidae 16 Red Piranha Pygocentrus nattereri Characidae 17 Redeye Piranha Serrasalmus rhombeus Characidae 18 Blue Acara Aequidens pulcher Cichlidae 19 Speckled Peacock3 Cichla temensis Cichlidae 20 Pearl Eartheater Geophagus brasiliensis Cichlidae 21 Banded Cichlid Heros severus Cichlidae 22 Freshwater Angelfish Pterophyllum scalare Cichlidae 23 Banded Tilapia Tilapia sparrmani Cichlidae 24 Red Tilapia3 Tilapia hybrid Cichlidae 25 Tinfoil Barb Barbodes schwanefeldi Cyprinidae 26 Goldfish Carassius auratus Cyprinidae 27 Grass Carp Ctenopharyngodon idella Cyprinidae 28 Malabar Danio Danio malabaricus Cyprinidae 29 Zebra Danio Danio rerio Cyprinidae 30 Bighead Carp Hypophthalmichthys nobilis Cyprinidae 31 Black Sharkminnow Labeo chrysophekadion Cyprinidae 32 Rosy Barb Puntius conchonius Cyprinidae 33 Dwarf Barb Puntius gelius Cyprinidae 34 Tiger Barb Puntius tetrazona Cyprinidae 35 Raphael Catfish Platydoras costatus Doradidae 36 Ripsaw Catfish Pseudodoras niger Doradidae 37 Granulated Catfish Pterodoras granulosus Doradidae 38 Bristlecheek Catfish Ancistrus sp Loricarridae 39 Arawana Osteoglossum bicirrhosum Osteoglossidae 40 Black Molly3 Poecilia hybrid Poeciliidae 41 Redtail Catfish Phractocephalus hemioliopterus Pimelodidae 42 Barred Bichir Polypterus delhezi Polypteridae 43 Swai Pangasius sutchi Schilbidae [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 42288	From: harry perry	Date: 7/25/2009
Subject: Re: Invasive species of Florida/Mike

Also the walking catfish and the grass carp. Some folks are slow to learn from their mistakes. Harry --- On Sat, 7/25/09, Deenerz@... <Deenerz@...> wrote: From: Deenerz@... <Deenerz@...> Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Invasive species of Florida To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Date: Saturday, July 25, 2009, 10:53 PM   Hi Harry, We have to give credit on the Oscars to Florida Fish and Game. -Mike Original Message----- From: harry perry <harryfisherman@ yahoo.com> To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com Sent: Sat, Jul 25, 2009 3:20 pm Subject: [AquaticLife] Invasive species of Florida Please don't let your fish go. The native species have to compete with all this to survive. There is probably more than this. Also invasive plants. Harry   Here is a list of fishes reproducing in Florida waters 1 Brown Hoplo Hoplosternum littorale Callicthyidae 2 Bullseye Snakehead Channa marulius Channidae 3 Oscar Astronotus ocellatus Cichlidae 4 Butterfly Peacock3 Cichla ocellaris Cichlidae 5 Black Acara Cichlasoma bimaculatum Cichlidae 6 Midas Cichlid Cichlasoma citrinellum Cichlidae 7 Rio Grande Cichlid 4 Cichlasoma cyanoguttatum Cichlidae 8 Jaguar Guapote Cichlasoma managuense Cichlidae 9 Mayan Cichlid Cichlasoma urophthalmus Cichlidae 10 Redstriped Eartheater Geophagus surinamensis Cichlidae 11 African Jewelfish Hemichromis bimaculatus Cichlidae 12 Blue Tilapia Oreochromis aureus3 Cichlidae 13 Mozambique Tilapia Oreochromis mossambicus3 Cichlidae 14 Blackchin Tilapia Sarotherodon melanotheron3 Cichlidae 15 Spotted Tilapia Tilapia mariae Cichlidae 16 Walking Catfish Clarias batrachus Clariidae 17 Common Carp Cyprinus carpio Cyprinidae 18 Suckermouth Catfish Hypostomus sp. Loricariidae 19 Vermiculated Sailfin Pterygoplicthys disjunctivus Loricariidae 20 Sailfin Catfish Pterygoplicthys multiradiatus Loricar iidae 21 Pike Killifish Belonesox belizanus Poeciliidae 22 Swamp Eel Monopterus albus Synbranchidae Possibly Established (n = 10; reproducing species not considered to have achieved the status of permanence; i.e., populations that might be eliminated by man or natural causes). 1 Croaking Gourami Trichopsis vittata Anabantidae 2 Firemouth Cichlid Cichlasoma meeki Cichlidae 3 Jack Dempsey Cichlasoma octofasciatum Cichlidae 4 Yellowbelly Cichlid Cichlasoma salvini Cichlidae 5 Eastern Happy Haplochromis callipterus Cichlidae 6 No Common Name Theraps hybrid Cichlidae 7 Oriental Weatherfish Misgurnus anguillicaudatus Cobitidae 8 Spotfin Spinyeel Macrognathus siamensis Mastacembelidae 9 Clown Knifefish Notopterus chitala Notopteridae 10 Variable Platyfish Xiphophorus variatus Poeciliidae Formerly Reproducing (n=11; illegally introduced populations intentionally eliminated by man indicated by an asterisk*). 1 Climbing Perch Anabas testudineus Anabantidae 2 Siamese Fightingfish Betta splendens Anabantidae 3 Twospot Ctenopoma Ctenopoma nigropannosum Anabantidae 4 Trahira Hoplias malabaricus Characidae 5 Pirambeba* Serrasalmus humeralis Characidae 6 Convict Cichlid* Cichlasoma nigrofasciatum Cichlidae 7 Threespot Cichlid* Cichlasoma trimaculatum Cichlidae 8 Redbelly Tilapia* Tilapia zilli Cichlidae 9 Guppy Poecilia reticulata Poeciliidae 10 Green Swordtail Xiphophorus helleri Poeciliidae 11 Southern Platyfish Xiphophorus maculatus Poeciliidae Reported Fishes (n = 43; species collected without eviden ce of reproduction) . 1 Banded Gourami Colisa fasciata Anabantidae 2 Thicklip Gourami Colisa labiosa Anabantidae 3 Dwarf Gourami Colisa lalia Anabantidae 4 Kissing Gourami Helostoma temmincki Anabantidae 5 Paradisefish Macropodus opercularis Anabantidae 6 Pearl Gourami Trichogaster leeri Anabantidae 7 Threespot Gourami Trichogaster trichopterus Anabantidae 8 Cascarudo Callichthys callichthys Callichthyidae 9 Corydoras Corydoras Callichthyidae 10 Northern Snakehead Channa argus Channidae 11 Tambaqui (Pacu) Colossoma macropomum Characidae 12 Pirapatinga Piractus brachypomus Characidae 13 Black Tetra Gymnocorymbus ternetzi Characidae 14 Banded Leporinus Leporinus fasciatus Characidae 15 Silver Dollar Metynnis hypsauchen Characidae 16 Red Piranha Pygocentrus nattereri Characidae 17 Redeye Piranha Serrasalmus rhombeus Characidae 18 Blue Acara Aequidens pulcher Cichlidae 19 Speckled Peacock3 Cichla temensis Cichlidae 20 Pearl Eartheater Geophagus brasiliensis Cichlidae 21 Banded Cichlid Heros severus Cichlidae 22 Freshwater Angelfish Pterophyllum scalare Cichlidae 23 Banded Tilapia Tilapia sparrmani Cichlidae 24 Red Tilapia3 Tilapia hybrid Cichlidae 25 Tinfoil Barb Barbodes schwanefeldi Cyprinidae 26 Goldfish Carassius auratus Cyprinidae 27 Grass Carp Ctenopharyngodon idella Cyprinidae 28 Malabar Danio Danio malabaricus Cyprinidae 29 Zebra Danio Danio rerio Cyprinidae 30 Bighead Carp Hypophthalmichthys nobilis Cyprinidae 31 Black Sharkminnow Labeo chrysophekadion Cyprinidae 32 Rosy Barb Puntius conchonius Cyprinidae 33 Dwarf Barb Puntius gelius Cyprinidae 34 Tiger Barb Puntius tetrazona Cyprinidae 35 Raphael Catfish Platydoras costatus Doradidae 36 Ripsaw Catfish Pseudodoras niger Doradidae 37 Granulated Catfish Pterodoras granulosus Doradidae 38 Bristlecheek Catfish Ancistrus sp Loricarridae 39 Arawana Osteoglossum bicirrhosum Osteoglossidae 40 Black Molly3 Poecilia hybrid Poeciliidae 41 Redtail Catfish Phractocephalus hemioliopterus Pimelodidae 42 Barred Bichir Polypterus delhezi Polypteridae 43 Swai Pangasius sutchi Schilbidae [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 42289	From: Lisa	Date: 7/26/2009
Subject: Filter pumps

Is there such a thing as a triple outlet pump? So that i can connect my airline, and croc bubbler to. Thanks Lisa

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 42290	From: Deenerz@aol.com	Date: 7/26/2009
Subject: Re: Invasive species of Florida/Mike

Oh yes! The grass carp is a real potential disaster waiting to explode! -Mike Also the walking catfish and the grass carp. Some folks are slow to learn from their mistakes. Harry -----Original Message----- From: harry perry <harryfisherman@...> To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Sat, Jul 25, 2009 10:41 pm Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Invasive species of Florida/Mike Also the walking catfish and the grass carp. Some folks are slow to learn from their mistakes. Harry --- On Sat, 7/25/09, Deenerz@... <Deenerz@...> wrote: From: Deenerz@... <Deenerz@...> Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Invasive species of Florida To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Date: Saturday, July 25, 2009, 10:53 PM   Hi Harry, We have to give credit on the Oscars to Florida Fish and Game. -Mike Original Message----- From: harry perry <harryfisherman@ yahoo.com> To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com Sent: Sat, Jul 25, 2009 3:20 pm Subject: [AquaticLife] Invasive species of Florida Please don't let your fish go. The native species have to compete with all this to survive. There is probably more than this. Also invasive plants. Harry   Here is a list of fishes reproducing in Florida waters 1 Brown Hoplo Hoplosternum littorale Callicthyidae 2 Bullseye Snakehead Channa marulius Channidae 3 Oscar Astronotus ocellatus Cichlidae 4 Butterfly Peacock3 Cichla ocellaris Cichlidae 5 Black Acara Cichlasoma bimaculatum Cichlidae 6 Midas Cichlid Cichlasoma citrinellum Cichlidae 7 Rio Grande Cichlid 4 Cichlasoma cyanoguttatum Cichlidae 8 Jaguar Guapote Cichlasoma managuense Cichlidae 9 Mayan Cichlid Cichlasoma urophthalmus Cichlidae 10 Redstriped Eartheater Geophagus surinamensis Cichlidae 11 African Jewelfish Hemichromis bimaculatus Cichlidae 12 Blue Tilapia Oreochromis aureus3 Cichlidae 13 Mozambique Tilapia Oreochromis mossambicus3 Cichlidae 14 Blackchin Tilapia Sarotherodon melanotheron3 Cichlidae 15 Spotted Tilapia Tilapia mariae Cichlidae 16 Walking Catfish Clarias batrachus Clariidae 17 Common Carp Cyprinus carpio Cyprinidae 18 Suckermouth Catfish Hypostomus sp. Loricariidae 19 Vermiculated Sailfin Pterygoplicthys disjunctivus Loricariidae 20 Sailfin Catfish Pterygoplicthys multiradiatus Loricar iidae 21 Pike Killifish Belonesox belizanus Poeciliidae 22 Swamp Eel Monopterus albus Synbranchidae Possibly Established (n = 10; reproducing species not considered to have achieved the status of permanence; i.e., populations that might be eliminated by man or natural causes). 1 Croaking Gourami Trichopsis vittata Anabantidae 2 Firemouth Cichlid Cichlasoma meeki Cichlidae 3 Jack Dempsey Cichlasoma octofasciatum Cichlidae 4 Yellowbelly Cichlid Cichlasoma salvini Cichlidae 5 Eastern Happy Haplochromis callipterus Cichlidae 6 No Common Name Theraps hybrid Cichlidae 7 Oriental Weatherfish Misgurnus anguillicaudatus Cobitidae 8 Spotfin Spinyeel Macrognathus siamensis Mastacembelidae 9 Clown Knifefish Notopterus chitala Notopteridae 10 Variable Platyfish Xiphophorus variatus Poeciliidae Formerly Reproducing (n=11; illegally introduced populations intentionally eliminated by man indicated by an asterisk*). 1 Climbing Perch Anabas testudineus Anabantidae 2 Siamese Fightingfish Betta splendens Anabantidae 3 Twospot Ctenopoma Ctenopoma nigropannosum Anabantidae 4 Trahira Hoplias malabaricus Characidae 5 Pirambeba* Serrasalmus humeralis Characidae 6 Convict Cichlid* Cichlasoma nigrofasciatum Cichlidae 7 Threespot Cichlid* Cichlasoma trimaculatum Cichlidae 8 Redbelly Tilapia* Tilapia zilli Cichlidae 9 Guppy Poecilia reticulata Poeciliidae 10 Green Swordtail Xiphophorus helleri Poeciliidae 11 Southern Platyfish Xiphophorus maculatus Poeciliidae Reported Fishes (n = 43; species collected without eviden ce of reproduction) . 1 Banded Gourami Colisa fasciata Anabantidae 2 Thicklip Gourami Colisa labiosa Anabantidae 3 Dwarf Gourami Colisa lalia Anabantidae 4 Kissing Gourami Helostoma temmincki Anabantidae 5 Paradisefish Macropodus opercularis Anabantidae 6 Pearl Gourami Trichogaster leeri Anabantidae 7 Threespot Gourami Trichogaste r trichopterus Anabantidae 8 Cascarudo Callichthys callichthys Callichthyidae 9 Corydoras Corydoras Callichthyidae 10 Northern Snakehead Channa argus Channidae 11 Tambaqui (Pacu) Colossoma macropomum Characidae 12 Pirapatinga Piractus brachypomus Characidae 13 Black Tetra Gymnocorymbus ternetzi Characidae 14 Banded Leporinus Leporinus fasciatus Characidae 15 Silver Dollar Metynnis hypsauchen Characidae 16 Red Piranha Pygocentrus nattereri Characidae 17 Redeye Piranha Serrasalmus rhombeus Characidae 18 Blue Acara Aequidens pulcher Cichlidae 19 Speckled Peacock3 Cichla temensis Cichlidae 20 Pearl Eartheater Geophagus brasiliensis Cichlidae 21 Banded Cichlid Heros severus Cichlidae 22 Freshwater Angelfish Pterophyllum scalare Cichlidae 23 Banded Tilapia Tilapia sparrmani Cichlidae 24 Red Tilapia3 Tilapia hybrid Cichlidae 25 Tinfoil Barb Barbodes schwanefeldi Cyprinidae 26 Goldfish Carassius auratus Cyprinidae 27 Grass Carp Ctenopharyngodon idella Cyprinidae 28 Malabar Danio Danio malabaricus Cyprinidae 29 Zebra Danio Danio rerio Cyprinidae 30 Bighead Carp Hypophthalmichthys nobilis Cyprinidae 31 Black Sharkminnow Labeo chrysophekadion Cyprinidae 32 Rosy Barb Puntius conchonius Cyprinidae 33 Dwarf Barb Puntius gelius Cyprinidae 34 Tiger Barb Puntius tetrazona Cyprinidae 35 Raphael Catfish Platydoras costatus Doradidae 36 Ripsaw Catfish Pseudod oras niger Doradidae 37 Granulated Catfish Pterodoras granulosus Doradidae 38 Bristlecheek Catfish Ancistrus sp Loricarridae 39 Arawana Osteoglossum bicirrhosum Osteoglossidae 40 Black Molly3 Poecilia hybrid Poeciliidae 41 Redtail Catfish Phractocephalus hemioliopterus Pimelodidae 42 Barred Bichir Polypterus delhezi Polypteridae 43 Swai Pangasius sutchi Schilbidae [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 42291	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 7/26/2009
Subject: Re: Filter pumps

Lisa, Use three way air valves to achieve your goal. I used one double piston pump (Supreme) to run 35 or so tanks at one time with the help of various valve solutions, PVC piping and airlines. \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Lisa Sent: Sunday, July 26, 2009 3:48 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Filter pumps Is there such a thing as a triple outlet pump? So that i can connect my airline, and croc bubbler to. Thanks Lisa

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 42292	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 7/26/2009
Subject: Re: Invasive species of Florida

While it's good to remind folks of this responsibility to NOT release their non-native fish, I believe the majority of Florida's (and now South Louisiana's) problems with non-native species is due to the flooding caused by Mother Nature... ala Hurricanes. Folks in areas hit by hurricanes and/or flood waters, which put their homes, businesses and/or fish farms under water, did not really have a choice if their fish get loose. South Florida is the home to many, many tropical fish breeding/farming facilities with indoor and/or outdoor breeding ponds and the floods caused by Hurricane Andrew back in 1992 and the many other Hurricanes before and after caused the release of tens of thousands of non-native fish... far more than any number caused by the individual hobbyist. Same thing here in South Louisiana with the severe flooding caused by Hurricane Katrina and our many other hurricanes over the years. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of harry perry Sent: Saturday, July 25, 2009 5:20 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Invasive species of Florida Please don't let your fish go. The native species have to compete with all this to survive. There is probably more than this. Also invasive plants. Harry Here is a list of fishes reproducing in Florida waters 1 Brown Hoplo Hoplosternum littorale Callicthyidae 2 Bullseye Snakehead Channa marulius Channidae 3 Oscar Astronotus ocellatus Cichlidae 4 Butterfly Peacock3 Cichla ocellaris Cichlidae 5 Black Acara Cichlasoma bimaculatum Cichlidae 6 Midas Cichlid Cichlasoma citrinellum Cichlidae 7 Rio Grande Cichlid 4 Cichlasoma cyanoguttatum Cichlidae 8 Jaguar Guapote Cichlasoma managuense Cichlidae 9 Mayan Cichlid Cichlasoma urophthalmus Cichlidae 10 Redstriped Eartheater Geophagus surinamensis Cichlidae 11 African Jewelfish Hemichromis bimaculatus Cichlidae 12 Blue Tilapia Oreochromis aureus3 Cichlidae 13 Mozambique Tilapia Oreochromis mossambicus3 Cichlidae 14 Blackchin Tilapia Sarotherodon melanotheron3 Cichlidae 15 Spotted Tilapia Tilapia mariae Cichlidae 16 Walking Catfish Clarias batrachus Clariidae 17 Common Carp Cyprinus carpio Cyprinidae 18 Suckermouth Catfish Hypostomus sp. Loricariidae 19 Vermiculated Sailfin Pterygoplicthys disjunctivus Loricariidae 20 Sailfin Catfish Pterygoplicthys multiradiatus Loricariidae 21 Pike Killifish Belonesox belizanus Poeciliidae 22 Swamp Eel Monopterus albus Synbranchidae Possibly Established (n = 10; reproducing species not considered to have achieved the status of permanence; i.e., populations that might be eliminated by man or natural causes). 1 Croaking Gourami Trichopsis vittata Anabantidae 2 Firemouth Cichlid Cichlasoma meeki Cichlidae 3 Jack Dempsey Cichlasoma octofasciatum Cichlidae 4 Yellowbelly Cichlid Cichlasoma salvini Cichlidae 5 Eastern Happy Haplochromis callipterus Cichlidae 6 No Common Name Theraps hybrid Cichlidae 7 Oriental Weatherfish Misgurnus anguillicaudatus Cobitidae 8 Spotfin Spinyeel Macrognathus siamensis Mastacembelidae 9 Clown Knifefish Notopterus chitala Notopteridae 10 Variable Platyfish Xiphophorus variatus Poeciliidae Formerly Reproducing (n=11; illegally introduced populations intentionally eliminated by man indicated by an asterisk*). 1 Climbing Perch Anabas testudineus Anabantidae 2 Siamese Fightingfish Betta splendens Anabantidae 3 Twospot Ctenopoma Ctenopoma nigropannosum Anabantidae 4 Trahira Hoplias malabaricus Characidae 5 Pirambeba* Serrasalmus humeralis Characidae 6 Convict Cichlid* Cichlasoma nigrofasciatum Cichlidae 7 Threespot Cichlid* Cichlasoma trimaculatum Cichlidae 8 Redbelly Tilapia* Tilapia zilli Cichlidae 9 Guppy Poecilia reticulata Poeciliidae 10 Green Swordtail Xiphophorus helleri Poeciliidae 11 Southern Platyfish Xiphophorus maculatus Poeciliidae Reported Fishes (n = 43; species collected without evidence of reproduction) . 1 Banded Gourami Colisa fasciata Anabantidae 2 Thicklip Gourami Colisa labiosa Anabantidae 3 Dwarf Gourami Colisa lalia Anabantidae 4 Kissing Gourami Helostoma temmincki Anabantidae 5 Paradisefish Macropodus opercularis Anabantidae 6 Pearl Gourami Trichogaster leeri Anabantidae 7 Threespot Gourami Trichogaster trichopterus Anabantidae 8 Cascarudo Callichthys callichthys Callichthyidae 9 Corydoras Corydoras Callichthyidae 10 Northern Snakehead Channa argus Channidae 11 Tambaqui (Pacu) Colossoma macropomum Characidae 12 Pirapatinga Piractus brachypomus Characidae 13 Black Tetra Gymnocorymbus ternetzi Characidae 14 Banded Leporinus Leporinus fasciatus Characidae 15 Silver Dollar Metynnis hypsauchen Characidae 16 Red Piranha Pygocentrus nattereri Characidae 17 Redeye Piranha Serrasalmus rhombeus Characidae 18 Blue Acara Aequidens pulcher Cichlidae 19 Speckled Peacock3 Cichla temensis Cichlidae 20 Pearl Eartheater Geophagus brasiliensis Cichlidae 21 Banded Cichlid Heros severus Cichlidae 22 Freshwater Angelfish Pterophyllum scalare Cichlidae 23 Banded Tilapia Tilapia sparrmani Cichlidae 24 Red Tilapia3 Tilapia hybrid Cichlidae 25 Tinfoil Barb Barbodes schwanefeldi Cyprinidae 26 Goldfish Carassius auratus Cyprinidae 27 Grass Carp Ctenopharyngodon idella Cyprinidae 28 Malabar Danio Danio malabaricus Cyprinidae 29 Zebra Danio Danio rerio Cyprinidae 30 Bighead Carp Hypophthalmichthys nobilis Cyprinidae 31 Black Sharkminnow Labeo chrysophekadion Cyprinidae 32 Rosy Barb Puntius conchonius Cyprinidae 33 Dwarf Barb Puntius gelius Cyprinidae 34 Tiger Barb Puntius tetrazona Cyprinidae 35 Raphael Catfish Platydoras costatus Doradidae 36 Ripsaw Catfish Pseudodoras niger Doradidae 37 Granulated Catfish Pterodoras granulosus Doradidae 38 Bristlecheek Catfish Ancistrus sp Loricarridae 39 Arawana Osteoglossum bicirrhosum Osteoglossidae 40 Black Molly3 Poecilia hybrid Poeciliidae 41 Redtail Catfish Phractocephalus hemioliopterus Pimelodidae 42 Barred Bichir Polypterus delhezi Polypteridae 43 Swai Pangasius sutchi Schilbidae

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 42293	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 7/26/2009
Subject: Re: 65G tank setup in SE Michigan spotted on eBay

Someone should jump on this deal... even if they do not need another tank right now. A complete 65G set up for that price would be an amazing buy. Of course, there's two days left to the auction and zero bids so far and there may be a minimum sale price that is not shown which may not even be close to the price being shown right now. Do you live in that area? Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Menagerie_Manager Sent: Saturday, July 25, 2009 10:19 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] 65G tank setup in SE Michigan spotted on eBay In case anyone is looking for a 65G tank with cabinet and supplies. This one is pick up only in Waterford. It's currently going for $40. http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=250471851246&fromMakeTrac k=true&ssPageName=VIP:watchlink:top:en OR http://preview.tinyurl.com/nv2edz DebR and the Three Goldfish (CB, Lucille, and Raven)

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 42294	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 7/26/2009
Subject: Re: Filter pumps

There are inline regulator multi-valves that can be connected to even a single airline output from a pump and then that valve splits the air to many other lines, each controlled by it's own regulator so you can pump more air to one than another. Here's an example of one such device, that I found with a quick Google, but there are many other brands available. What is a BIG or common fish/pet store down under or which online source do you buy from? http://www.petco.com/product/13622/Penn-Plax-Lok-Tite-Aquarium-Gang-Valves.a spx?cm_mmc=CSEMGooglebase-_-Fish-_-Penn%20Plax-_-90212 Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Lisa Sent: Sunday, July 26, 2009 2:48 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Filter pumps Is there such a thing as a triple outlet pump? So that i can connect my airline, and croc bubbler to. Thanks Lisa

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 42295	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 7/26/2009
Subject: Re: Invasive species of Florida/Mike

Do like we did with Nutria... come up with a good recipe, like maybe "Blackened Cidella" (scientific name is Ctenopharyngodon idella) and turn it into a local delicacy... which might even go worldwide like our Blackened Redfish recipe that has threatened the Redfish population down here. Another thing they could do is change the common name of the fish from "Grass Carp" to something that sounds more tasty and exotic... like was done with the saltwater game fish with the common name Dolphin... changing it to Mahi Mahi in the food industry. Folks just didn't like ordering Dolphin at their local restaurants as the kids thought they would be eating Flipper... but Mahi Mahi.. heck, that sounds exotic and delicious... which it is! ;-) Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Deenerz@... Sent: Sunday, July 26, 2009 3:13 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Invasive species of Florida/Mike Oh yes! The grass carp is a real potential disaster waiting to explode! -Mike Also the walking catfish and the grass carp. Some folks are slow to learn from their mistakes. Harry -----Original Message----- From: harry perry <harryfisherman@...> To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Sat, Jul 25, 2009 10:41 pm Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Invasive species of Florida/Mike Also the walking catfish and the grass carp. Some folks are slow to learn from their mistakes. Harry --- On Sat, 7/25/09, Deenerz@... <Deenerz@...> wrote: From: Deenerz@... <Deenerz@...> Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Invasive species of Florida To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Date: Saturday, July 25, 2009, 10:53 PM   Hi Harry, We have to give credit on the Oscars to Florida Fish and Game. -Mike Original Message----- From: harry perry <harryfisherman@ yahoo.com> To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com Sent: Sat, Jul 25, 2009 3:20 pm Subject: [AquaticLife] Invasive species of Florida Please don't let your fish go. The native species have to compete with all this to survive. There is probably more than this. Also invasive plants. Harry   Here is a list of fishes reproducing in Florida waters 1 Brown Hoplo Hoplosternum littorale Callicthyidae 2 Bullseye Snakehead Channa marulius Channidae 3 Oscar Astronotus ocellatus Cichlidae 4 Butterfly Peacock3 Cichla ocellaris Cichlidae 5 Black Acara Cichlasoma bimaculatum Cichlidae 6 Midas Cichlid Cichlasoma citrinellum Cichlidae 7 Rio Grande Cichlid 4 Cichlasoma cyanoguttatum Cichlidae 8 Jaguar Guapote Cichlasoma managuense Cichlidae 9 Mayan Cichlid Cichlasoma urophthalmus Cichlidae 10 Redstriped Eartheater Geophagus surinamensis Cichlidae 11 African Jewelfish Hemichromis bimaculatus Cichlidae 12 Blue Tilapia Oreochromis aureus3 Cichlidae 13 Mozambique Tilapia Oreochromis mossambicus3 Cichlidae 14 Blackchin Tilapia Sarotherodon melanotheron3 Cichlidae 15 Spotted Tilapia Tilapia mariae Cichlidae 16 Walking Catfish Clarias batrachus Clariidae 17 Common Carp Cyprinus carpio Cyprinidae 18 Suckermouth Catfish Hypostomus sp. Loricariidae 19 Vermiculated Sailfin Pterygoplicthys disjunctivus Loricariidae 20 Sailfin Catfish Pterygoplicthys multiradiatus Loricar iidae 21 Pike Killifish Belonesox belizanus Poeciliidae 22 Swamp Eel Monopterus albus Synbranchidae Possibly Established (n = 10; reproducing species not considered to have achieved the status of permanence; i.e., populations that might be eliminated by man or natural causes). 1 Croaking Gourami Trichopsis vittata Anabantidae 2 Firemouth Cichlid Cichlasoma meeki Cichlidae 3 Jack Dempsey Cichlasoma octofasciatum Cichlidae 4 Yellowbelly Cichlid Cichlasoma salvini Cichlidae 5 Eastern Happy Haplochromis callipterus Cichlidae 6 No Common Name Theraps hybrid Cichlidae 7 Oriental Weatherfish Misgurnus anguillicaudatus Cobitidae 8 Spotfin Spinyeel Macrognathus siamensis Mastacembelidae 9 Clown Knifefish Notopterus chitala Notopteridae 10 Variable Platyfish Xiphophorus variatus Poeciliidae Formerly Reproducing (n=11; illegally introduced populations intentionally eliminated by man indicated by an asterisk*). 1 Climbing Perch Anabas testudineus Anabantidae 2 Siamese Fightingfish Betta splendens Anabantidae 3 Twospot Ctenopoma Ctenopoma nigropannosum Anabantidae 4 Trahira Hoplias malabaricus Characidae 5 Pirambeba* Serrasalmus humeralis Characidae 6 Convict Cichlid* Cichlasoma nigrofasciatum Cichlidae 7 Threespot Cichlid* Cichlasoma trimaculatum Cichlidae 8 Redbelly Tilapia* Tilapia zilli Cichlidae 9 Guppy Poecilia reticulata Poeciliidae 10 Green Swordtail Xiphophorus helleri Poeciliidae 11 Southern Platyfish Xiphophorus maculatus Poeciliidae Reported Fishes (n = 43; species collected without eviden ce of reproduction) . 1 Banded Gourami Colisa fasciata Anabantidae 2 Thicklip Gourami Colisa labiosa Anabantidae 3 Dwarf Gourami Colisa lalia Anabantidae 4 Kissing Gourami Helostoma temmincki Anabantidae 5 Paradisefish Macropodus opercularis Anabantidae 6 Pearl Gourami Trichogaster leeri Anabantidae 7 Threespot Gourami Trichogaste r trichopterus Anabantidae 8 Cascarudo Callichthys callichthys Callichthyidae 9 Corydoras Corydoras Callichthyidae 10 Northern Snakehead Channa argus Channidae 11 Tambaqui (Pacu) Colossoma macropomum Characidae 12 Pirapatinga Piractus brachypomus Characidae 13 Black Tetra Gymnocorymbus ternetzi Characidae 14 Banded Leporinus Leporinus fasciatus Characidae 15 Silver Dollar Metynnis hypsauchen Characidae 16 Red Piranha Pygocentrus nattereri Characidae 17 Redeye Piranha Serrasalmus rhombeus Characidae 18 Blue Acara Aequidens pulcher Cichlidae 19 Speckled Peacock3 Cichla temensis Cichlidae 20 Pearl Eartheater Geophagus brasiliensis Cichlidae 21 Banded Cichlid Heros severus Cichlidae 22 Freshwater Angelfish Pterophyllum scalare Cichlidae 23 Banded Tilapia Tilapia sparrmani Cichlidae 24 Red Tilapia3 Tilapia hybrid Cichlidae 25 Tinfoil Barb Barbodes schwanefeldi Cyprinidae 26 Goldfish Carassius auratus Cyprinidae 27 Grass Carp Ctenopharyngodon idella Cyprinidae 28 Malabar Danio Danio malabaricus Cyprinidae 29 Zebra Danio Danio rerio Cyprinidae 30 Bighead Carp Hypophthalmichthys nobilis Cyprinidae 31 Black Sharkminnow Labeo chrysophekadion Cyprinidae 32 Rosy Barb Puntius conchonius Cyprinidae 33 Dwarf Barb Puntius gelius Cyprinidae 34 Tiger Barb Puntius tetrazona Cyprinidae 35 Raphael Catfish Platydoras costatus Doradidae 36 Ripsaw Catfish Pseudod oras niger Doradidae 37 Granulated Catfish Pterodoras granulosus Doradidae 38 Bristlecheek Catfish Ancistrus sp Loricarridae 39 Arawana Osteoglossum bicirrhosum Osteoglossidae 40 Black Molly3 Poecilia hybrid Poeciliidae 41 Redtail Catfish Phractocephalus hemioliopterus Pimelodidae 42 Barred Bichir Polypterus delhezi Polypteridae 43 Swai Pangasius sutchi Schilbidae [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] ------------------------------------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. `..><((((>.`..`.><((((> .`.. , .`..><((((> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <((((><.`..`.<((((><.`.. , .`..<((((><`.. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the home page. Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com to receive the digest, which includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com for the No E-Mail option where you will still be able to read messages on the group and post replies. Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com to receive individual e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 42296	From: chelseablue06	Date: 7/26/2009
Subject: Newbie

Hi, new here, live in Port Stephens Australia and am surrounded by critters of all shapes and sizes. Currently having a koala invasion in my back yard so planting to keep them out the back, which is where my newly built pond is. Guess that is better than the blue tongue lizards in my dining room! I currently have Burrowing frogs, Crinia tinnula (VERY pleased with those) and Crinnia signifera hanging around the pond. Have heard the Litoria caerulea but they seem to be staying in the staghorns so far. Heard others but have not identified them as yet. My pond is planted out with natives eg Villarsia and Balloskian in pond (waiting for water lilly season here) and Dianella, Flannel Flowers. bromeliads, lillipilly etc around it with Azolla floating on it. It has rocks on the bottom and 3 different depths and have a 2 pumps ready to install a fountain but not sure if either will be too big as I the frogs likes the still water. Would appreciate any help or advice on maintaining pond health without using chemicals.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 42297	From: Menagerie_Manager	Date: 7/26/2009
Subject: Re: 65G tank setup in SE Michigan spotted on eBay

Yes, I do live within driving distance, but hubby would pitch a fit if I brought one more tank into the house. I regularly scan the local pick-up-only listings and have gotten some amazing deals on things, because the entire country isn't in competition with me for it. (a diner table with attached benches for $60, an elliptical trainer for $25, etc) DebR and the Three Goldfish (CB, Lucille, and Raven) ----- Original Message ----- From: "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@...> Someone should jump on this deal... even if they do not need another tank right now. A complete 65G set up for that price would be an amazing buy. Of course, there's two days left to the auction and zero bids so far and there may be a minimum sale price that is not shown which may not even be close to the price being shown right now. Do you live in that area? -----Original Message----- From: Menagerie_Manager In case anyone is looking for a 65G tank with cabinet and supplies. This one is pick up only in Waterford. It's currently going for $40. http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=250471851246&fromMakeTrac k=true&ssPageName=VIP:watchlink:top:en OR http://preview.tinyurl.com/nv2edz

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 42298	From: bill 1433	Date: 7/26/2009
Subject: Re: 65G tank setup in SE Michigan spotted on eBay

Deb?   Maybe you could "seek it" into the garage or basement? That's a great deal!   Bill --- On Sun, 7/26/09, Menagerie_Manager <menagerie_manager@...> wrote: From: Menagerie_Manager <menagerie_manager@...> Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] 65G tank setup in SE Michigan spotted on eBay To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Date: Sunday, July 26, 2009, 12:30 PM      Yes, I do live within driving distance, but hubby would pitch a fit if I brought one more tank into the house.  I regularly scan the local pick-up-only listings and have gotten some amazing deals on things, because the entire country isn't in competition with me for it.  (a diner table with attached benches for $60, an elliptical trainer for $25, etc) DebR and the Three Goldfish (CB, Lucille, and Raven) ----- Original Message ----- From: "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@...> Someone should jump on this deal... even if they do not need another tank right now.  A complete 65G set up for that price would be an amazing buy. Of course, there's two days left to the auction and zero bids so far and there may be a minimum sale price that is not shown which may not even be close to the price being shown right now. Do you live in that area? -----Original Message----- From: Menagerie_Manager In case anyone is looking for a 65G tank with cabinet and supplies.  This one is pick up only in Waterford.  It's currently going for $40. http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=250471851246&fromMakeTrac k=true&ssPageName=VIP:watchlink:top:en OR http://preview.tinyurl.com/nv2edz ------------------------------------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the home page.  Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com to receive the digest, which includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com for the No E-Mail option where you will still be able to read messages on the group and post replies. Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com to receive individual e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 42299	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 7/26/2009
Subject: Re: 65G tank setup in SE Michigan spotted on eBay

Well, tell him you will consolidate two of the smaller tanks into the big one and then sell the smaller tanks after. Of course, we know you won't really sell the smaller tanks. That's how politicians lie to us every day and we believe them... or rather some people do. LOL If hubby complains, tell him you're practicing to be President one day. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Menagerie_Manager Sent: Sunday, July 26, 2009 11:30 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] 65G tank setup in SE Michigan spotted on eBay Yes, I do live within driving distance, but hubby would pitch a fit if I brought one more tank into the house. I regularly scan the local pick-up-only listings and have gotten some amazing deals on things, because the entire country isn't in competition with me for it. (a diner table with attached benches for $60, an elliptical trainer for $25, etc) DebR and the Three Goldfish (CB, Lucille, and Raven) ----- Original Message ----- From: "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@...> Someone should jump on this deal... even if they do not need another tank right now. A complete 65G set up for that price would be an amazing buy. Of course, there's two days left to the auction and zero bids so far and there may be a minimum sale price that is not shown which may not even be close to the price being shown right now. Do you live in that area? -----Original Message----- From: Menagerie_Manager In case anyone is looking for a 65G tank with cabinet and supplies. This one is pick up only in Waterford. It's currently going for $40. http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=250471851246&fromMakeTrac k=true&ssPageName=VIP:watchlink:top:en OR http://preview.tinyurl.com/nv2edz

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 42300	From: Menagerie_Manager	Date: 7/26/2009
Subject: Re: 65G tank setup in SE Michigan spotted on eBay

It's a great deal for someone, but for me it would be like getting a great deal on a size 6 dress, lol. DebR and the Three Goldfish (CB, Lucille, and Raven) ----- Original Message ----- From: "bill 1433" <warrenprint@...> Deb? Maybe you could "seek it" into the garage or basement? That's a great deal! --- On Sun, 7/26/09, Menagerie_Manager <menagerie_manager@...> wrote: Yes, I do live within driving distance, but hubby would pitch a fit if I brought one more tank into the house. I regularly scan the local pick-up-only listings and have gotten some amazing deals on things, because the entire country isn't in competition with me for it. (a diner table with attached benches for $60, an elliptical trainer for $25, etc) ----- Original Message ----- From: "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@...> Someone should jump on this deal... even if they do not need another tank right now. A complete 65G set up for that price would be an amazing buy. Of course, there's two days left to the auction and zero bids so far and there may be a minimum sale price that is not shown which may not even be close to the price being shown right now. Do you live in that area? -----Original Message----- From: Menagerie_Manager In case anyone is looking for a 65G tank with cabinet and supplies. This one is pick up only in Waterford. It's currently going for $40. http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=250471851246&fromMakeTrac k=true&ssPageName=VIP:watchlink:top:en OR http://preview.tinyurl.com/nv2edz

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 42301	From: harry perry	Date: 7/26/2009
Subject: biG papa, a source for free fish in Florida

Al Anderson wrote: > > > When I go to Fla. I look up the addresses of fish farms near where I > am and then drive near them and check out the barrow pits beside the > roads where you will find all kinds of fish from discus to Cory cats, > even bright red swordtails and mollies. > > > > Al Anderson > > 6246 N.Rural St. > > Indianapolis IN. 46220 > > 317 253 2170 > > 317 445 9570 > > augustand@sbcglobal .net > > Medicare for all Americans > > Send the others home to get it > > Where they were born including > > Wal Mart employees > > "If Fox, CBS, ABC, NBC are > > all paid to tell the same lie > > the American people will > > believe and pay for it with > > their votes." > > > > *From:* anubiasdesign@ yahoogroups. com > [mailto:anubiasdesign@ yahoogroups. com] *On Behalf Of *BigJohnW@Webtv. net > *Sent:* Saturday, July 25, 2009 8:16 PM > *To:* anubiasdesign@ yahoogroups. com > *Subject:* Re: [anubiasdesign] Fw: [AquaticLife] Invasive species of > Florida > > > > > > thats alot of invasive fish, didnt realize it was that bad... t hanks > for that info. I guess if there was one invasive species in florida, > why couldint it be L46?? > > John > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 42302	From: harry perry	Date: 7/26/2009
Subject: Re: Invasive species of Florida/Mike/Lenny

"Blackened Grass Carp" by any other name is still a carp. Still is going to taste like mud. Harry --- On Sun, 7/26/09, Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@...> wrote: From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@...> Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Invasive species of Florida/Mike To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Date: Sunday, July 26, 2009, 11:15 AM   Do like we did with Nutria... come up with a good recipe, like maybe "Blackened Cidella" (scientific name is Ctenopharyngodon idella) and turn it into a local delicacy... which might even go worldwide like our Blackened Redfish recipe that has threatened the Redfish population down here. Another thing they could do is change the common name of the fish from "Grass Carp" to something that sounds more tasty and exotic... like was done with the saltwater game fish with the common name Dolphin... changing it to Mahi Mahi in the food industry. Folks just didn't like ordering Dolphin at their local restaurants as the kids thought they would be eating Flipper... but Mahi Mahi.. heck, that sounds exotic and delicious... which it is! ;-) Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com [mailto:AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com] On Behalf Of Deenerz@aol. com Sent: Sunday, July 26, 2009 3:13 AM To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Invasive species of Florida/Mike Oh yes! The grass carp is a real potential disaster waiting to explode! -Mike Also the walking catfish and the grass carp. Some folks are slow to learn from their mistakes. Harry -----Original Message----- From: harry perry <harryfisherman@ yahoo.com> To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com Sent: Sat, Jul 25, 2009 10:41 pm Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Invasive species of Florida/Mike Also the walking catfish and the grass carp. Some folks are slow to learn from their mistakes. Harry --- On Sat, 7/25/09, Deenerz@aol. com <Deenerz@aol. com> wrote: From: Deenerz@aol. com <Deenerz@aol. com> Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Invasive species of Florida To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com Date: Saturday, July 25, 2009, 10:53 PM   Hi Harry, We have to give credit on the Oscars to Florida Fish and Game. -Mike Original Message----- From: harry perry <harryfisherman@ yahoo.com> To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com Sent: Sat, Jul 25, 2009 3:20 pm Subject: [AquaticLife] Invasive species of Florida Please don't let your fish go. The native species have to compete with all this to survive. There is probably more than this. Also invasive plants. Harry   Here is a list of fishes reproducing in Florida waters 1 Brown Hoplo Hoplosternum littorale Callicthyidae 2 Bullseye Snakehead Channa marulius Channidae 3 Oscar Astronotus ocellatus Cichlidae 4 Butterfly Peacock3 Cichla ocellaris Cichlidae 5 Black Acara Cichlasoma bimaculatum Cichlidae 6 Midas Cichlid Cichlasoma citrinellum Cichlidae 7 Rio Grande Cichlid 4 Cichlasoma cyanoguttatum Cichlidae 8 Jaguar Guapote Cichlasoma managuense Cichlidae 9 Mayan Cichlid Cichlasoma urophthalmus Cichlidae 10 Redstriped Eartheater Geophagus surinamensis Cichlidae 11 African Jewelfish Hemichromis bimaculatus Cichlidae 12 Blue Tilapia Oreochromis aureus3 Cichlidae 13 Mozambique Tilapia Oreochromis mossambicus3 Cichlidae 14 Blackchin Tilapia Sarotherodon melanotheron3 Cichlidae 15 Spotted Tilapia Tilapia mariae Cichlidae 16 Walking Catfish Clarias batrachus Clariidae 17 Common Carp Cyprinus carpio Cyprinidae 18 Suckermouth Catfish Hypostomus sp. Loricariidae 19 Vermiculated Sailfin Pterygoplicthys disjunctivus Loricariidae 20 Sailfin Catfish Pterygoplicthys multiradiatus Loricar iidae 21 Pike Killifish Belonesox belizanus Poeciliidae 22 Swamp Eel Monopterus albus Synbranchidae Possibly Established (n = 10; reproducing species not considered to have achieved the status of permanence; i.e., populations that might be eliminated by man or natural causes). 1 Croaking Gourami Trichopsis vittata Anabantidae 2 Firemouth Cichlid Cichlasoma meeki Cichlidae 3 Jack Dempsey Cichlasoma octofasciatum Cichlidae 4 Yellowbelly Cichlid Cichlasoma salvini Cichlidae 5 Eastern Happy Haplochromis callipterus Cichlidae 6 No Common Name Theraps hybrid Cichlidae 7 Oriental Weatherfish Misgurnus anguillicaudatus Cobitidae 8 Spotfin Spinyeel Macrognathus siamensis Mastacembelidae 9 Clown Knifefish Notopterus chitala Notopteridae 10 Variable Platyfish Xiphophorus variatus Poeciliidae Formerly Reproducing (n=11; illegally introduced populations intentionally eliminated by man indicated by an asterisk*). 1 Climbing Perch Anabas testudineus Anabantidae 2 Siamese Fightingfish Betta splendens Anabantidae 3 Twospot Ctenopoma Ctenopoma nigropannosum Anabantidae 4 Trahira Hoplias malabaricus Characidae 5 Pirambeba* Serrasalmus humeralis Characidae 6 Convict Cichlid* Cichlasoma nigrofasciatum Cichlidae 7 Threespot Cichlid* Cichlasoma trimaculatum Cichlidae 8 Redbelly Tilapia* Tilapia zilli Cichlidae 9 Guppy Poecilia reticulata Poeciliidae 10 Green Swordtail Xiphophorus helleri Poeciliidae 11 Southern Platyfish Xiphophorus maculatus Poeciliidae Reported Fishes (n = 43; species collected without eviden ce of reproduction) . 1 Banded Gourami Colisa fasciata Anabantidae 2 Thicklip Gourami Colisa labiosa Anabantidae 3 Dwarf Gourami Colisa lalia Anabantidae 4 Kissing Gourami Helostoma temmincki Anabantidae 5 Paradisefish Macropodus opercularis Anabantidae 6 Pearl Gourami Trichogaster leeri Anabantidae 7 Threespot Gourami Trichogaste r trichopterus Anabantidae 8 Cascarudo Callichthys callichthys Callichthyidae 9 Corydoras Corydoras Callichthyidae 10 Northern Snakehead Channa argus Channidae 11 Tambaqui (Pacu) Colossoma macropomum Characidae 12 Pirapatinga Piractus brachypomus Characidae 13 Black Tetra Gymnocorymbus ternetzi Characidae 14 Banded Leporinus Leporinus fasciatus Characidae 15 Silver Dollar Metynnis hypsauchen Characidae 16 Red Piranha Pygocentrus nattereri Characidae 17 Redeye Piranha Serrasalmus rhombeus Characidae 18 Blue Acara Aequidens pulcher Cichlidae 19 Speckled Peacock3 Cichla temensis Cichlidae 20 Pearl Eartheater Geophagus brasiliensis Cichlidae 21 Banded Cichlid Heros severus Cichlidae 22 Freshwater Angelfish Pterophyllum scalare Cichlidae 23 Banded Tilapia Tilapia sparrmani Cichlidae 24 Red Tilapia3 Tilapia hybrid Cichlidae 25 Tinfoil Barb Barbodes schwanefeldi Cyprinidae 26 Goldfish Carassius auratus Cyprinidae 27 Grass Carp Ctenopharyngodon idella Cyprinidae 28 Malabar Danio Danio malabaricus Cyprinidae 29 Zebra Danio Danio rerio Cyprinidae 30 Bighead Carp Hypophthalmichthys nobilis Cyprinidae 31 Black Sharkminnow Labeo chrysophekadion Cyprinidae 32 Rosy Barb Puntius conchonius Cyprinidae 33 Dwarf Barb Puntius gelius Cyprinidae 34 Tiger Barb Puntius tetrazona Cyprinidae 35 Raphael Catfish Platydoras costatus Doradidae 36 Ripsaw Catfish Pseudod oras niger Doradidae 37 Granulated Catfish Pterodoras granulosus Doradidae 38 Bristlecheek Catfish Ancistrus sp Loricarridae 39 Arawana Osteoglossum bicirrhosum Osteoglossidae 40 Black Molly3 Poecilia hybrid Poeciliidae 41 Redtail Catfish Phractocephalus hemioliopterus Pimelodidae 42 Barred Bichir Polypterus delhezi Polypteridae 43 Swai Pangasius sutchi Schilbidae [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] ------------ --------- --------- ------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. `..><((((>.` ..`.><((( (> .`.. , .`..><((((> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <((((><.`..` .<((((><. `.. , .`..<((((><` .. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the home page. Or e-mail aquaticlife- digest@yahoogrou ps.com to receive the digest, which includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email Or email aquaticlife- nomail@yahoogrou ps.com for the No E-Mail option where you will still be able to read messages on the group and post replies. Or email aquaticlife- normal@yahoogrou ps.com to receive individual e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 42303	From: harry perry	Date: 7/26/2009
Subject: Fw: [anubiasdesign] Re: Invasive species. Dumb and Dumber

> > harry perry wrote: > > > > > > When I Googled Ca invasive fish species I found that Ca dumped 17,000 > > gals. of pesticide into lake Davis in an attempt to rid it of Northern > > Pike. The pesticide is linked to Parkinson's disease.This cost millions. 6 months later the Pike were back. > > > > Where do they find these people who run the fish and game depts. in > > Florida and Ca. > > > > Harry > > > > > > > Which asks the question= 'Where did the pike come from in the first place?'. You can't really place the blame on the pet industry or hobbyists as seems to be the norm. Northern pike are not exactly a staple aquarium fish. Larry [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 42304	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 7/26/2009
Subject: Re: Newbie

How big is your pond in gallons? What are the specs on each pump--how many gallons per hour at what head? Is the flow rate of either adjustable? Water lilies also do well in waters with little movement. Whether you can do a fountain or not depends on what you have now, or may be able to get. \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of chelseablue06 Sent: Sunday, July 26, 2009 10:03 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Newbie Hi, new here, live in Port Stephens Australia and am surrounded by critters of all shapes and sizes. Currently having a koala invasion in my back yard so planting to keep them out the back, which is where my newly built pond is. Guess that is better than the blue tongue lizards in my dining room! I currently have Burrowing frogs, Crinia tinnula (VERY pleased with those) and Crinnia signifera hanging around the pond. Have heard the Litoria caerulea but they seem to be staying in the staghorns so far. Heard others but have not identified them as yet. My pond is planted out with natives eg Villarsia and Balloskian in pond (waiting for water lilly season here) and Dianella, Flannel Flowers. bromeliads, lillipilly etc around it with Azolla floating on it. It has rocks on the bottom and 3 different depths and have a 2 pumps ready to install a fountain but not sure if either will be too big as I the frogs likes the still water. Would appreciate any help or advice on maintaining pond health without using chemicals.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 42305	From: yofiguy	Date: 7/26/2009
Subject: filter pump

I am curruntly using my 55 gallon in a salt condition for my um 20 to 30 silver, black and "what do you get with a black and silver" mollies with no filtration. I will have a home made wet/dry, refugium and shrimp/algae tanks(three sep. tanks). for the pump can I use a powerhead in the wet/dry tank or should I spend the exra money and get a sump?

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 42306	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 7/26/2009
Subject: Re: 65G tank setup in SE Michigan spotted on eBay

Sounds like that 500 gallon tank for sale here locally, but my hubby would kill me if I brought it home too, LOL. Not to mention I have no idea where I'd put it. Amber Menagerie_Manager wrote: > > > Yes, I do live within driving distance, but hubby would pitch a fit if > I brought one more tank into the house. I regularly scan the local > pick-up-only listings and have gotten some amazing deals on things, > because > the entire country isn't in competition with me for it. (a diner table > with > attached benches for $60, an elliptical trainer for $25, etc) > > DebR and the Three Goldfish > (CB, Lucille, and Raven) > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@... > <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com>> > > Someone should jump on this deal... even if they do not need another tank > right now. A complete 65G set up for that price would be an amazing buy. > > Of course, there's two days left to the auction and zero bids so far and > there may be a minimum sale price that is not shown which may not even be > close to the price being shown right now. > > Do you live in that area? > > -----Original Message----- > From: Menagerie_Manager > > In case anyone is looking for a 65G tank with cabinet and supplies. This > one is pick up only in Waterford. It's currently going for $40. > http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=250471851246&fromMakeTrac > <http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=250471851246&fromMakeTrac> > k=true&ssPageName=VIP:watchlink:top:en > OR > http://preview.tinyurl.com/nv2edz <http://preview.tinyurl.com/nv2edz> > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 42307	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 7/26/2009
Subject: Albino BN Pleco Close up pic

Got a nice close up shot of one of my Albino BN pleco's, just thought I'd share with the group, still can't tell gender quite yet, but still a nice looking fish IMO :) http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2444/3758521427_8529f81ef2_o.jpg Amber

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 42308	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 7/26/2009
Subject: Re: 65G tank setup in SE Michigan spotted on eBay

Does that mean the "dress" is too small or too big? LOL. Amber Menagerie_Manager wrote: > > > It's a great deal for someone, but for me it would be like getting a > great deal on a size 6 dress, lol. > > DebR and the Three Goldfish > (CB, Lucille, and Raven) > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "bill 1433" <warrenprint@... <mailto:warrenprint%40yahoo.com>> > Deb? > Maybe you could "seek it" into the garage or basement? > That's a great deal! > > --- On Sun, 7/26/09, Menagerie_Manager <menagerie_manager@... > <mailto:menagerie_manager%40prodigy.net>> > wrote: > Yes, I do live within driving distance, but hubby would pitch a fit if > I brought one more tank into the house. I regularly scan the local > pick-up-only listings and have gotten some amazing deals on things, > because > the entire country isn't in competition with me for it. (a diner table > with > attached benches for $60, an elliptical trainer for $25, etc) > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@... > <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com>> > Someone should jump on this deal... even if they do not need another tank > right now. A complete 65G set up for that price would be an amazing buy. > Of course, there's two days left to the auction and zero bids so far and > there may be a minimum sale price that is not shown which may not even be > close to the price being shown right now. > Do you live in that area? > > -----Original Message----- > From: Menagerie_Manager > In case anyone is looking for a 65G tank with cabinet and supplies. This > one is pick up only in Waterford. It's currently going for $40. > http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=250471851246&fromMakeTrac > <http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=250471851246&fromMakeTrac> > k=true&ssPageName=VIP:watchlink:top:en > OR > http://preview.tinyurl.com/nv2edz <http://preview.tinyurl.com/nv2edz> > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 42309	From: harry perry	Date: 7/26/2009
Subject: Re: A Close up pic/Amber, nice shot

How did you get this shot without a flash back from the glass?. Thanks Harry --- On Sun, 7/26/09, Amber Berglund <arberglund@...> wrote: From: Amber Berglund <arberglund@...> Subject: [AquaticLife] Albino BN Pleco Close up pic To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Date: Sunday, July 26, 2009, 3:53 PM   Got a nice close up shot of one of my Albino BN pleco's, just thought I'd share with the group, still can't tell gender quite yet, but still a nice looking fish IMO :) http://farm3. static.flickr. com/2444/ 3758521427_ 8529f81ef2_ o.jpg Amber [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 42310	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 7/26/2009
Subject: Re: A Close up pic/Amber, nice shot

I don't use a flash, I use the fish tank lighting and set my camera up with the proper lighting settings so that the fish look the right color ;) Then I use the macro setting and get as close as I can without the auto focus focusing on the glass of the fish tank, which is usually about a 1/2 inch away from the glass, so if the fish are near the front of the tank I can get some really nice close up shots, just depends on if they're cooperating with me ;) LOL. Oh and I usually have the light off in the room I'm standing in, that way the fish tank lighting appears brighter for my camera, not to mention this is my highest lighted tank of all of them, so it's pretty bright in there ;) Amber harry perry wrote: > > > How did you get this shot without a flash back from the glass?. > > Thanks > > Harry > > --- On Sun, 7/26/09, Amber Berglund <arberglund@... > <mailto:arberglund%40gmail.com>> wrote: > > From: Amber Berglund <arberglund@... > <mailto:arberglund%40gmail.com>> > Subject: [AquaticLife] Albino BN Pleco Close up pic > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Date: Sunday, July 26, 2009, 3:53 PM > > > > Got a nice close up shot of one of my Albino BN pleco's, just thought > > I'd share with the group, still can't tell gender quite yet, but still a > > nice looking fish IMO :) > > http://farm3. static.flickr. com/2444/ 3758521427_ 8529f81ef2_ o.jpg > > Amber > > > > > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 42311	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 7/26/2009
Subject: Re: Newbie

Lily's will also create their own still water by shooting up lots of floating leaves, my dwarf lily did this in my 125 gallon tank, so now half of the tank is a lot more "still" than the other half. Quite effective little plants ;) The duckweed is taking over between the lily pads, LOL. Amber Steve Szabo wrote: > > > How big is your pond in gallons? > > What are the specs on each pump--how many gallons per hour at what head? > > Is the flow rate of either adjustable? > > Water lilies also do well in waters with little movement. Whether you > can do a fountain or not depends on what you have now, or may be able to > get. > > \\Steve// > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] > On Behalf Of chelseablue06 > Sent: Sunday, July 26, 2009 10:03 AM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Subject: [AquaticLife] Newbie > > Hi, new here, live in Port Stephens Australia and am surrounded by > critters of all shapes and sizes. Currently having a koala invasion in > my back yard so planting to keep them out the back, which is where my > newly built pond is. Guess that is better than the blue tongue lizards > in my dining room! > > I currently have Burrowing frogs, Crinia tinnula (VERY pleased with > those) and Crinnia signifera hanging around the pond. Have heard the > Litoria caerulea but they seem to be staying in the staghorns so far. > Heard others but have not identified them as yet. > > My pond is planted out with natives eg Villarsia and Balloskian in pond > (waiting for water lilly season here) and Dianella, Flannel Flowers. > bromeliads, lillipilly etc around it with Azolla floating on it. It has > rocks on the bottom and 3 different depths and have a 2 pumps ready to > install a fountain but not sure if either will be too big as I the > frogs likes the still water. > > Would appreciate any help or advice on maintaining pond health without > using chemicals. > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 42312	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 7/26/2009
Subject: Re: Fw: [anubiasdesign] Re: Invasive species. Dumb and Dumber

My grandfather died of parkinson's disease this March (09). He also lived in northern California for a good portion of his life, good to know the government is "smart" about how they fix things. They probably cost us a lot of lives by using that pesticide, and this is just one incident, I'm sure there are plenty more to be found if one looks hard enough. Sometimes it makes me want to save up enough money so I can buy my own island away from civilization ;) Or at least politicians. LOL Amber harry perry wrote: > > > > > > > > > harry perry wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > When I Googled Ca invasive fish species I found that Ca dumped 17,000 > > > > gals. of pesticide into lake Davis in an attempt to rid it of > Northern > > > > Pike. The pesticide is linked to Parkinson's disease.This cost > millions. 6 months later the Pike were back. > > > > > > > > Where do they find these people who run the fish and game depts. in > > > > Florida and Ca. > > > > > > > > Harry > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Which asks the question= 'Where did the pike come from in the first > place?'. You can't really place the blame on the pet industry or > hobbyists as seems to be the norm. Northern pike are not exactly a > staple aquarium fish. > > Larry > > > > > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 42313	From: Courtland Jacob	Date: 7/26/2009
Subject: biocube

anyone in louisiana want to buy a 29 gallon biocube?

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 42314	From: pam andress	Date: 7/26/2009
Subject: Re: Albino BN Pleco Close up pic

Pretty pleco there Amber. I like it. LOL Pam To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com From: arberglund@... Date: Sun, 26 Jul 2009 11:53:11 -0800 Subject: [AquaticLife] Albino BN Pleco Close up pic Got a nice close up shot of one of my Albino BN pleco's, just thought I'd share with the group, still can't tell gender quite yet, but still a nice looking fish IMO :) http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2444/3758521427_8529f81ef2_o.jpg Amber [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 42315	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 7/26/2009
Subject: Re: Albino BN Pleco Close up pic

Thanks Pam, I thought you might, does he/she look familiar? LOL Oh and this is my Hubby's Hobby, I keep asking him for objects to put in my fish tank but he's too hesitant ;) LOL http://picasaweb.google.com/jackpotmonkey/GlassArt?feat=directlink Amber pam andress wrote: > > > > Pretty pleco there Amber. I like it. LOL > > Pam > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > From: arberglund@... <mailto:arberglund%40gmail.com> > Date: Sun, 26 Jul 2009 11:53:11 -0800 > Subject: [AquaticLife] Albino BN Pleco Close up pic > > Got a nice close up shot of one of my Albino BN pleco's, just thought > I'd share with the group, still can't tell gender quite yet, but still a > nice looking fish IMO :) > http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2444/3758521427_8529f81ef2_o.jpg > <http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2444/3758521427_8529f81ef2_o.jpg> > > Amber > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 42316	From: pam andress	Date: 7/26/2009
Subject: Re: Albino BN Pleco Close up pic

Those are neat. Some very pretty ones in there. Pam To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com From: arberglund@... Date: Sun, 26 Jul 2009 12:30:34 -0800 Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Albino BN Pleco Close up pic Thanks Pam, I thought you might, does he/she look familiar? LOL Oh and this is my Hubby's Hobby, I keep asking him for objects to put in my fish tank but he's too hesitant ;) LOL http://picasaweb.google.com/jackpotmonkey/GlassArt?feat=directlink Amber pam andress wrote: > > > > Pretty pleco there Amber. I like it. LOL > > Pam > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > From: arberglund@... <mailto:arberglund%40gmail.com> > Date: Sun, 26 Jul 2009 11:53:11 -0800 > Subject: [AquaticLife] Albino BN Pleco Close up pic > > Got a nice close up shot of one of my Albino BN pleco's, just thought > I'd share with the group, still can't tell gender quite yet, but still a > nice looking fish IMO :) > http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2444/3758521427_8529f81ef2_o.jpg > <http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2444/3758521427_8529f81ef2_o.jpg> > > Amber > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 42317	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 7/26/2009
Subject: Re: Albino BN Pleco Close up pic

Yeah I kept asking for that marble he made, wanted to put it in my fish tank, LOL. He wouldn't give it to me for some reason ;) Amber pam andress wrote: > > > > Those are neat. Some very pretty ones in there. > > Pam > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > From: arberglund@... <mailto:arberglund%40gmail.com> > Date: Sun, 26 Jul 2009 12:30:34 -0800 > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Albino BN Pleco Close up pic > > Thanks Pam, I thought you might, does he/she look familiar? LOL > Oh and this is my Hubby's Hobby, I keep asking him for objects to put in > my fish tank but he's too hesitant ;) LOL > http://picasaweb.google.com/jackpotmonkey/GlassArt?feat=directlink > <http://picasaweb.google.com/jackpotmonkey/GlassArt?feat=directlink> > > Amber > > pam andress wrote: > > > > > > > > Pretty pleco there Amber. I like it. LOL > > > > Pam > > > > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > From: arberglund@... <mailto:arberglund%40gmail.com> > <mailto:arberglund%40gmail.com> > > Date: Sun, 26 Jul 2009 11:53:11 -0800 > > Subject: [AquaticLife] Albino BN Pleco Close up pic > > > > Got a nice close up shot of one of my Albino BN pleco's, just thought > > I'd share with the group, still can't tell gender quite yet, but still a > > nice looking fish IMO :) > > http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2444/3758521427_8529f81ef2_o.jpg > <http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2444/3758521427_8529f81ef2_o.jpg> > > <http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2444/3758521427_8529f81ef2_o.jpg > <http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2444/3758521427_8529f81ef2_o.jpg>> > > > > Amber > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 42318	From: pam andress	Date: 7/26/2009
Subject: Re: Albino BN Pleco Close up pic

What a brat! I'm parial to the blue ones. (My fav color). I'm sure if he made some and made them different shapes, you could put them in. Just depends on what he is using. Pam To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com From: arberglund@... Date: Sun, 26 Jul 2009 12:41:12 -0800 Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Albino BN Pleco Close up pic Yeah I kept asking for that marble he made, wanted to put it in my fish tank, LOL. He wouldn't give it to me for some reason ;) Amber pam andress wrote: > > > > Those are neat. Some very pretty ones in there. > > Pam > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > From: arberglund@... <mailto:arberglund%40gmail.com> > Date: Sun, 26 Jul 2009 12:30:34 -0800 > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Albino BN Pleco Close up pic > > Thanks Pam, I thought you might, does he/she look familiar? LOL > Oh and this is my Hubby's Hobby, I keep asking him for objects to put in > my fish tank but he's too hesitant ;) LOL > http://picasaweb.google.com/jackpotmonkey/GlassArt?feat=directlink > <http://picasaweb.google.com/jackpotmonkey/GlassArt?feat=directlink> > > Amber > > pam andress wrote: > > > > > > > > Pretty pleco there Amber. I like it. LOL > > > > Pam > > > > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > From: arberglund@... <mailto:arberglund%40gmail.com> > <mailto:arberglund%40gmail.com> > > Date: Sun, 26 Jul 2009 11:53:11 -0800 > > Subject: [AquaticLife] Albino BN Pleco Close up pic > > > > Got a nice close up shot of one of my Albino BN pleco's, just thought > > I'd share with the group, still can't tell gender quite yet, but still a > > nice looking fish IMO :) > > http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2444/3758521427_8529f81ef2_o.jpg > <http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2444/3758521427_8529f81ef2_o.jpg> > > <http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2444/3758521427_8529f81ef2_o.jpg > <http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2444/3758521427_8529f81ef2_o.jpg>> > > > > Amber > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 42319	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 7/26/2009
Subject: Re: Albino BN Pleco Close up pic

It's all pyrex glass, anything else used (dichro glass) would still be encased in clear pyrex so it should be all aquarium safe. I have a small piece downstairs in my 55 gallon Angel tank and so far it hasn't hurt anything, and it's not even growing algae on it yet ;) LOL. I've been begging for a purple dichro glass art piece (like small paper weight) to put in one of my fish tanks, but until he gets his kiln up and running he can't make anything larger than a smallish marble because it will crack as it is cooling down (too fast). That's why most of his stuff is small pendants for now, as he is practicing (to make larger marbles and pendants etc.) until he gets his kiln operational. Amber pam andress wrote: > > > > What a brat! I'm parial to the blue ones. (My fav color). I'm sure if > he made some and made them different shapes, you could put them in. > Just depends on what he is using. > > Pam > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > From: arberglund@... <mailto:arberglund%40gmail.com> > Date: Sun, 26 Jul 2009 12:41:12 -0800 > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Albino BN Pleco Close up pic > > Yeah I kept asking for that marble he made, wanted to put it in my fish > tank, LOL. > He wouldn't give it to me for some reason ;) > > Amber > > pam andress wrote: > > > > > > > > Those are neat. Some very pretty ones in there. > > > > Pam > > > > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > From: arberglund@... <mailto:arberglund%40gmail.com> > <mailto:arberglund%40gmail.com> > > Date: Sun, 26 Jul 2009 12:30:34 -0800 > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Albino BN Pleco Close up pic > > > > Thanks Pam, I thought you might, does he/she look familiar? LOL > > Oh and this is my Hubby's Hobby, I keep asking him for objects to put in > > my fish tank but he's too hesitant ;) LOL > > http://picasaweb.google.com/jackpotmonkey/GlassArt?feat=directlink > <http://picasaweb.google.com/jackpotmonkey/GlassArt?feat=directlink> > > <http://picasaweb.google.com/jackpotmonkey/GlassArt?feat=directlink > <http://picasaweb.google.com/jackpotmonkey/GlassArt?feat=directlink>> > > > > Amber > > > > pam andress wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > Pretty pleco there Amber. I like it. LOL > > > > > > Pam > > > > > > > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > From: arberglund@... <mailto:arberglund%40gmail.com> > <mailto:arberglund%40gmail.com> > > <mailto:arberglund%40gmail.com> > > > Date: Sun, 26 Jul 2009 11:53:11 -0800 > > > Subject: [AquaticLife] Albino BN Pleco Close up pic > > > > > > Got a nice close up shot of one of my Albino BN pleco's, just thought > > > I'd share with the group, still can't tell gender quite yet, but > still a > > > nice looking fish IMO :) > > > http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2444/3758521427_8529f81ef2_o.jpg > <http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2444/3758521427_8529f81ef2_o.jpg> > > <http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2444/3758521427_8529f81ef2_o.jpg > <http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2444/3758521427_8529f81ef2_o.jpg>> > > > <http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2444/3758521427_8529f81ef2_o.jpg > <http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2444/3758521427_8529f81ef2_o.jpg> > > <http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2444/3758521427_8529f81ef2_o.jpg > <http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2444/3758521427_8529f81ef2_o.jpg>>> > > > > > > Amber > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 42320	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 7/26/2009
Subject: Re: Albino BN Pleco Close up pic

I'm pretty sure that's a female. Maybe Pam can address this better but when I was shopping around for a new dwarf pleco last year, I looked at some juvi BN's and even at an inch or so, the males had their bristles. I ended up getting a Clown pleco since my LFS was selling the albino BN's for $12.00 each and the Clown pleco was only around $3.00... hey, that's a lot of dollar value meals and the Clown stays smaller anyhow, although he's not really much of a clown. ;-) He mostly stays hidden except for when he's out feeding. Maybe I need to put a little clown car decoration in the tank. LOL Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Amber Berglund Sent: Sunday, July 26, 2009 2:53 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Albino BN Pleco Close up pic Got a nice close up shot of one of my Albino BN pleco's, just thought I'd share with the group, still can't tell gender quite yet, but still a nice looking fish IMO :) http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2444/3758521427_8529f81ef2_o.jpg Amber

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 42321	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 7/26/2009
Subject: Re: A Close up pic/Amber, nice shot

Yeah Harry.... you have to remember that Amber's tanks are lit up like the Sun. I'm surprised the fish don't look like this... http://www.thefloridarentalcottage.com/images/img0557.png I bet you thought I was gonna say this... http://www.cartoonstock.com/newscartoons/cartoonists/rma/lowres/rman6846l.jp g Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Amber Berglund Sent: Sunday, July 26, 2009 3:18 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] A Close up pic/Amber, nice shot I don't use a flash, I use the fish tank lighting and set my camera up with the proper lighting settings so that the fish look the right color ;) Then I use the macro setting and get as close as I can without the auto focus focusing on the glass of the fish tank, which is usually about a 1/2 inch away from the glass, so if the fish are near the front of the tank I can get some really nice close up shots, just depends on if they're cooperating with me ;) LOL. Oh and I usually have the light off in the room I'm standing in, that way the fish tank lighting appears brighter for my camera, not to mention this is my highest lighted tank of all of them, so it's pretty bright in there ;) Amber harry perry wrote: > > > How did you get this shot without a flash back from the glass?. > > Thanks > > Harry > > --- On Sun, 7/26/09, Amber Berglund <arberglund@... > <mailto:arberglund%40gmail.com>> wrote: > > From: Amber Berglund <arberglund@... > <mailto:arberglund%40gmail.com>> > Subject: [AquaticLife] Albino BN Pleco Close up pic > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Date: Sunday, July 26, 2009, 3:53 PM > > > > Got a nice close up shot of one of my Albino BN pleco's, just thought > > I'd share with the group, still can't tell gender quite yet, but still > a > > nice looking fish IMO :) > > http://farm3. static.flickr. com/2444/ 3758521427_ 8529f81ef2_ o.jpg > > Amber

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 42322	From: harry perry	Date: 7/26/2009
Subject: Re: A Close up pic/Amber, nice shot/Lenny

2nd link didn't work. Harry --- On Sun, 7/26/09, Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@...> wrote: From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@...> Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] A Close up pic/Amber, nice shot To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Date: Sunday, July 26, 2009, 5:40 PM   Yeah Harry.... you have to remember that Amber's tanks are lit up like the Sun. I'm surprised the fish don't look like this... http://www.theflori darentalcottage. com/images/ img0557.png I bet you thought I was gonna say this... http://www.cartoons tock.com/ newscartoons/ cartoonists/ rma/lowres/ rman6846l. jp g Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com [mailto:AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com] On Behalf Of Amber Berglund Sent: Sunday, July 26, 2009 3:18 PM To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] A Close up pic/Amber, nice shot I don't use a flash, I use the fish tank lighting and set my camera up with the proper lighting settings so that the fish look the right color ;) Then I use the macro setting and get as close as I can without the auto focus focusing on the glass of the fish tank, which is usually about a 1/2 inch away from the glass, so if the fish are near the front of the tank I can get some really nice close up shots, just depends on if they're cooperating with me ;) LOL. Oh and I usually have the light off in the room I'm standing in, that way the fish tank lighting appears brighter for my camera, not to mention this is my highest lighted tank of all of them, so it's pretty bright in there ;) Amber harry perry wrote: > > > How did you get this shot without a flash back from the glass?. > > Thanks > > Harry > > --- On Sun, 7/26/09, Amber Berglund <arberglund@gmail. com > <mailto:arberglund% 40gmail.com> > wrote: > > From: Amber Berglund <arberglund@gmail. com > <mailto:arberglund% 40gmail.com> > > Subject: [AquaticLife] Albino BN Pleco Close up pic > To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com <mailto:AquaticLife %40yahoogroups. com> > Date: Sunday, July 26, 2009, 3:53 PM > > > > Got a nice close up shot of one of my Albino BN pleco's, just thought > > I'd share with the group, still can't tell gender quite yet, but still > a > > nice looking fish IMO :) > > http://farm3. static.flickr. com/2444/ 3758521427_ 8529f81ef2_ o.jpg > > Amber [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 42323	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 7/26/2009
Subject: Re: A Close up pic/Amber, nice shot

Is that why all my snails drop to the substrate when the lights go on? ;) LOL And yes, they do... I noticed one morning. I think it's a shock to their little eyes that they aren't ready for ;) Amber Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > > > Yeah Harry.... you have to remember that Amber's tanks are lit up like the > Sun. > > I'm surprised the fish don't look like this... > http://www.thefloridarentalcottage.com/images/img0557.png > <http://www.thefloridarentalcottage.com/images/img0557.png> > > I bet you thought I was gonna say this... > http://www.cartoonstock.com/newscartoons/cartoonists/rma/lowres/rman6846l.jp > <http://www.cartoonstock.com/newscartoons/cartoonists/rma/lowres/rman6846l.jp> > g > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right > side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On > Behalf Of Amber Berglund > Sent: Sunday, July 26, 2009 3:18 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] A Close up pic/Amber, nice shot > > I don't use a flash, I use the fish tank lighting and set my camera up > with > the proper lighting settings so that the fish look the right color > ;) Then I use the macro setting and get as close as I can without the auto > focus focusing on the glass of the fish tank, which is usually about a 1/2 > inch away from the glass, so if the fish are near the front of the tank I > can get some really nice close up shots, just depends on if they're > cooperating with me ;) LOL. > Oh and I usually have the light off in the room I'm standing in, that way > the fish tank lighting appears brighter for my camera, not to mention this > is my highest lighted tank of all of them, so it's pretty bright in > there ;) > > Amber > > harry perry wrote: > > > > > > How did you get this shot without a flash back from the glass?. > > > > Thanks > > > > Harry > > > > --- On Sun, 7/26/09, Amber Berglund <arberglund@... > <mailto:arberglund%40gmail.com> > > <mailto:arberglund%40gmail.com>> wrote: > > > > From: Amber Berglund <arberglund@... > <mailto:arberglund%40gmail.com> > > <mailto:arberglund%40gmail.com>> > > Subject: [AquaticLife] Albino BN Pleco Close up pic > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > Date: Sunday, July 26, 2009, 3:53 PM > > > > > > > > Got a nice close up shot of one of my Albino BN pleco's, just thought > > > > I'd share with the group, still can't tell gender quite yet, but still > > a > > > > nice looking fish IMO :) > > > > http://farm3. static.flickr. com/2444/ 3758521427_ 8529f81ef2_ o.jpg > > > > Amber > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 42324	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 7/26/2009
Subject: Re: A Close up pic/Amber, nice shot/Lenny

It lost the g in jpg, just add it on to it in your browser and it'll work. Amber harry perry wrote: > > > 2nd link didn't work. > > Harry > > --- On Sun, 7/26/09, Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@... > <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com>> wrote: > > From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@... > <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com>> > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] A Close up pic/Amber, nice shot > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Date: Sunday, July 26, 2009, 5:40 PM > > > > Yeah Harry.... you have to remember that Amber's tanks are lit up like the > > Sun. > > I'm surprised the fish don't look like this... > > http://www.theflori darentalcottage. com/images/ img0557.png > > I bet you thought I was gonna say this... > > http://www.cartoons tock.com/ newscartoons/ cartoonists/ rma/lowres/ > rman6846l. jp > > g > > Lenny Vasbinder > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com > > (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right > > side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) > > -----Original Message----- > > From: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com [mailto:AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. > com] On > > Behalf Of Amber Berglund > > Sent: Sunday, July 26, 2009 3:18 PM > > To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] A Close up pic/Amber, nice shot > > I don't use a flash, I use the fish tank lighting and set my camera up > with > > the proper lighting settings so that the fish look the right color > > ;) Then I use the macro setting and get as close as I can without the auto > > focus focusing on the glass of the fish tank, which is usually about a 1/2 > > inch away from the glass, so if the fish are near the front of the tank I > > can get some really nice close up shots, just depends on if they're > > cooperating with me ;) LOL. > > Oh and I usually have the light off in the room I'm standing in, that way > > the fish tank lighting appears brighter for my camera, not to mention this > > is my highest lighted tank of all of them, so it's pretty bright in > there ;) > > Amber > > harry perry wrote: > > > > > > > > > How did you get this shot without a flash back from the glass?. > > > > > > Thanks > > > > > > Harry > > > > > > --- On Sun, 7/26/09, Amber Berglund <arberglund@gmail. com > > > <mailto:arberglund% 40gmail.com> > wrote: > > > > > > From: Amber Berglund <arberglund@gmail. com > > > <mailto:arberglund% 40gmail.com> > > > > Subject: [AquaticLife] Albino BN Pleco Close up pic > > > To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com <mailto:AquaticLife > %40yahoogroups. com> > > > Date: Sunday, July 26, 2009, 3:53 PM > > > > > > > > > > > > Got a nice close up shot of one of my Albino BN pleco's, just thought > > > > > > I'd share with the group, still can't tell gender quite yet, but still > > > a > > > > > > nice looking fish IMO :) > > > > > > http://farm3. static.flickr. com/2444/ 3758521427_ 8529f81ef2_ o.jpg > > > > > > Amber > > > > > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 42325	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 7/26/2009
Subject: Re: Fw: [anubiasdesign] Re: Invasive species. Dumb and Dumber

Sorry to hear about your grandfather. I find it VERY difficult to use "smart" and "government" in the same sentence. I guess using it sarcastically, as you did, would be about the only way "smart" should be used in the same sentence with "government". It's not really that hard to find more incidents of government stupidity. Just look at almost anything they do. B.O. just illustrated it with his "stupidly" comment last week. ;-) One government agency calling another government agency "stupid". As a wise man once said, "Stupid is as stupid does!"... well he was wise compared to government. LOL I thought you were already on an island.... oh, you mean like a Gilligan's Island but then you'd still have to deal with Gilligan. ;-) Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Amber Berglund Sent: Sunday, July 26, 2009 3:24 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Fw: [anubiasdesign] Re: Invasive species. Dumb and Dumber My grandfather died of parkinson's disease this March (09). He also lived in northern California for a good portion of his life, good to know the government is "smart" about how they fix things. They probably cost us a lot of lives by using that pesticide, and this is just one incident, I'm sure there are plenty more to be found if one looks hard enough. Sometimes it makes me want to save up enough money so I can buy my own island away from civilization ;) Or at least politicians. LOL Amber harry perry wrote: > > > > > > > > > harry perry wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > When I Googled Ca invasive fish species I found that Ca dumped 17,000 > > > > gals. of pesticide into lake Davis in an attempt to rid it of > Northern > > > > Pike. The pesticide is linked to Parkinson's disease.This cost > millions. 6 months later the Pike were back. > > > > > > > > Where do they find these people who run the fish and game depts. in > > > > Florida and Ca. > > > > > > > > Harry > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Which asks the question= 'Where did the pike come from in the first > place?'. You can't really place the blame on the pet industry or > hobbyists as seems to be the norm. Northern pike are not exactly a > staple aquarium fish. > > Larry

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 42326	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 7/26/2009
Subject: Re: biocube

Uh oh... this is one of them moments of "If you have to ask how much, you probably can't afford it!" LOL Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Courtland Jacob Sent: Sunday, July 26, 2009 3:26 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] biocube anyone in louisiana want to buy a 29 gallon biocube?

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 42327	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 7/26/2009
Subject: Re: Fw: [anubiasdesign] Re: Invasive species. Dumb and Dumber

Is Gilligan still living on the island? If so he's an old man by now ;) LOL I think I could handle him ;) Amber Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > > > Sorry to hear about your grandfather. > > I find it VERY difficult to use "smart" and "government" in the same > sentence. I guess using it sarcastically, as you did, would be about the > only way "smart" should be used in the same sentence with "government". > It's not really that hard to find more incidents of government stupidity. > Just look at almost anything they do. B.O. just illustrated it with his > "stupidly" comment last week. ;-) One government agency calling another > government agency "stupid". As a wise man once said, "Stupid is as stupid > does!"... well he was wise compared to government. LOL > > I thought you were already on an island.... oh, you mean like a Gilligan's > Island but then you'd still have to deal with Gilligan. ;-) > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right > side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On > Behalf Of Amber Berglund > Sent: Sunday, July 26, 2009 3:24 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Fw: [anubiasdesign] Re: Invasive species. Dumb > and Dumber > > My grandfather died of parkinson's disease this March (09). He also > lived in > northern California for a good portion of his life, good to know the > government is "smart" about how they fix things. They probably cost us > a lot > of lives by using that pesticide, and this is just one incident, I'm sure > there are plenty more to be found if one looks hard enough. > Sometimes it makes me want to save up enough money so I can buy my own > island away from civilization ;) Or at least politicians. LOL > > Amber > > harry perry wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > harry perry wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > When I Googled Ca invasive fish species I found that Ca dumped > 17,000 > > > > > > gals. of pesticide into lake Davis in an attempt to rid it of > > Northern > > > > > > Pike. The pesticide is linked to Parkinson's disease.This cost > > millions. 6 months later the Pike were back. > > > > > > > > > > > > Where do they find these people who run the fish and game depts. in > > > > > > Florida and Ca. > > > > > > > > > > > > Harry > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Which asks the question= 'Where did the pike come from in the first > > place?'. You can't really place the blame on the pet industry or > > hobbyists as seems to be the norm. Northern pike are not exactly a > > staple aquarium fish. > > > > Larry > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 42328	From: pam andress	Date: 7/26/2009
Subject: Re: Albino BN Pleco Close up pic

Get him a hat and some tiny balloons too and maybe you can teach him to make ballon animals. :) It is probably a female, but I'm not sure. It does have some tiny bristles, but females can get some too. Pam To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com From: GoldLenny@... Date: Sun, 26 Jul 2009 16:32:43 -0500 Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Albino BN Pleco Close up pic I'm pretty sure that's a female. Maybe Pam can address this better but when I was shopping around for a new dwarf pleco last year, I looked at some juvi BN's and even at an inch or so, the males had their bristles. I ended up getting a Clown pleco since my LFS was selling the albino BN's for $12.00 each and the Clown pleco was only around $3.00... hey, that's a lot of dollar value meals and the Clown stays smaller anyhow, although he's not really much of a clown. ;-) He mostly stays hidden except for when he's out feeding. Maybe I need to put a little clown car decoration in the tank. LOL Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Amber Berglund Sent: Sunday, July 26, 2009 2:53 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Albino BN Pleco Close up pic Got a nice close up shot of one of my Albino BN pleco's, just thought I'd share with the group, still can't tell gender quite yet, but still a nice looking fish IMO :) http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2444/3758521427_8529f81ef2_o.jpg Amber [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 42329	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 7/26/2009
Subject: Re: A Close up pic/Amber, nice shot/Lenny

Dang Yahoo Groups. God forbid a link is longer than they like. Do like I do. Just open the email as a "forward", then re-edit the broken link by removing the spaces until the link is back together and then click it. It's kind of like playing "All the King's horses and all the King's men", except you can put the link back together again... as I did below. ;-) They were both broken to pieces when I got this reply. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of harry perry Sent: Sunday, July 26, 2009 4:45 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] A Close up pic/Amber, nice shot/Lenny 2nd link didn't work. Harry --- On Sun, 7/26/09, Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@...> wrote: From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@...> Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] A Close up pic/Amber, nice shot To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Date: Sunday, July 26, 2009, 5:40 PM   Yeah Harry.... you have to remember that Amber's tanks are lit up like the Sun. I'm surprised the fish don't look like this... http://www.thefloridarentalcottage.com/images/img0557.png I bet you thought I was gonna say this... http://www.cartoonstock.com/newscartoons/cartoonists/rma/lowres/rman6846l.jp g Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com [mailto:AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com] On Behalf Of Amber Berglund Sent: Sunday, July 26, 2009 3:18 PM To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] A Close up pic/Amber, nice shot I don't use a flash, I use the fish tank lighting and set my camera up with the proper lighting settings so that the fish look the right color ;) Then I use the macro setting and get as close as I can without the auto focus focusing on the glass of the fish tank, which is usually about a 1/2 inch away from the glass, so if the fish are near the front of the tank I can get some really nice close up shots, just depends on if they're cooperating with me ;) LOL. Oh and I usually have the light off in the room I'm standing in, that way the fish tank lighting appears brighter for my camera, not to mention this is my highest lighted tank of all of them, so it's pretty bright in there ;) Amber harry perry wrote: > > > How did you get this shot without a flash back from the glass?. > > Thanks > > Harry > > --- On Sun, 7/26/09, Amber Berglund <arberglund@gmail. com > <mailto:arberglund% 40gmail.com> > wrote: > > From: Amber Berglund <arberglund@gmail. com > <mailto:arberglund% 40gmail.com> > > Subject: [AquaticLife] Albino BN Pleco Close up pic > To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com <mailto:AquaticLife %40yahoogroups. > com> > Date: Sunday, July 26, 2009, 3:53 PM > > > > Got a nice close up shot of one of my Albino BN pleco's, just thought > > I'd share with the group, still can't tell gender quite yet, but still > a > > nice looking fish IMO :) > > http://farm3. static.flickr. com/2444/ 3758521427_ 8529f81ef2_ o.jpg > > Amber

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 42330	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 7/26/2009
Subject: Re: Fw: [anubiasdesign] Re: Invasive species. Dumb and Dumber

Gilligan (Bob Denver) died September 2, 2005. Maybe too early for you, but, on The Many Loves of Dobie Gillis, he played Maynard G. Krebs, a beatnik. Here is the animated intro to the show: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DsfFf8KFELo and here is part 1 of a chow aired during the second season: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Vo-p1lBNboI \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Amber Berglund Sent: Sunday, July 26, 2009 5:56 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Fw: [anubiasdesign] Re: Invasive species. Dumb and Dumber Is Gilligan still living on the island? If so he's an old man by now ;) LOL I think I could handle him ;) Amber Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > > > Sorry to hear about your grandfather. > > I find it VERY difficult to use "smart" and "government" in the same > sentence. I guess using it sarcastically, as you did, would be about the > only way "smart" should be used in the same sentence with "government". > It's not really that hard to find more incidents of government stupidity. > Just look at almost anything they do. B.O. just illustrated it with his > "stupidly" comment last week. ;-) One government agency calling another > government agency "stupid". As a wise man once said, "Stupid is as stupid > does!"... well he was wise compared to government. LOL > > I thought you were already on an island.... oh, you mean like a Gilligan's > Island but then you'd still have to deal with Gilligan. ;-) > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right > side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On > Behalf Of Amber Berglund > Sent: Sunday, July 26, 2009 3:24 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Fw: [anubiasdesign] Re: Invasive species. Dumb > and Dumber > > My grandfather died of parkinson's disease this March (09). He also > lived in > northern California for a good portion of his life, good to know the > government is "smart" about how they fix things. They probably cost us > a lot > of lives by using that pesticide, and this is just one incident, I'm sure > there are plenty more to be found if one looks hard enough. > Sometimes it makes me want to save up enough money so I can buy my own > island away from civilization ;) Or at least politicians. LOL > > Amber > > harry perry wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > harry perry wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > When I Googled Ca invasive fish species I found that Ca dumped > 17,000 > > > > > > gals. of pesticide into lake Davis in an attempt to rid it of > > Northern > > > > > > Pike. The pesticide is linked to Parkinson's disease.This cost > > millions. 6 months later the Pike were back. > > > > > > > > > > > > Where do they find these people who run the fish and game depts. in > > > > > > Florida and Ca. > > > > > > > > > > > > Harry > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Which asks the question= 'Where did the pike come from in the first > > place?'. You can't really place the blame on the pet industry or > > hobbyists as seems to be the norm. Northern pike are not exactly a > > staple aquarium fish. > > > > Larry > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 42331	From: Menagerie_Manager	Date: 7/26/2009
Subject: Re: 65G tank setup in SE Michigan spotted on eBay

The smallest I've ever been as an adult was a size 8, fresh out of basic training 34 years ago. I would dance for joy if I could get down to a size 16, now. DebR and the Three Goldfish (CB, Lucille, and Raven) ----- Original Message ----- From: "Amber Berglund" <arberglund@...> > Does that mean the "dress" is too small or too big? LOL. > > Menagerie_Manager wrote: >> It's a great deal for someone, but for me it would be like getting a >> great deal on a size 6 dress, lol. >> - - - -----Original Message----- >> From: Menagerie_Manager >> In case anyone is looking for a 65G tank with cabinet and supplies. This >> one is pick up only in Waterford. It's currently going for $40. >> http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=250471851246&fromMakeTrac >> k=true&ssPageName=VIP:watchlink:top:en >> OR >> http://preview.tinyurl.com/nv2edz ------------

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 42332	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 7/26/2009
Subject: Re: A Close up pic/Amber, nice shot/Lenny

Lenny, You could just "edit" the message also, to repair the broken link. \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Lenny V. aka GoldLenny Sent: Sunday, July 26, 2009 6:10 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] A Close up pic/Amber, nice shot/Lenny Dang Yahoo Groups. God forbid a link is longer than they like. Do like I do. Just open the email as a "forward", then re-edit the broken link by removing the spaces until the link is back together and then click it. It's kind of like playing "All the King's horses and all the King's men", except you can put the link back together again... as I did below. ;-) They were both broken to pieces when I got this reply. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of harry perry Sent: Sunday, July 26, 2009 4:45 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] A Close up pic/Amber, nice shot/Lenny 2nd link didn't work. Harry --- On Sun, 7/26/09, Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@...> wrote: From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@...> Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] A Close up pic/Amber, nice shot To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Date: Sunday, July 26, 2009, 5:40 PM   Yeah Harry.... you have to remember that Amber's tanks are lit up like the Sun. I'm surprised the fish don't look like this... http://www.thefloridarentalcottage.com/images/img0557.png I bet you thought I was gonna say this... http://www.cartoonstock.com/newscartoons/cartoonists/rma/lowres/rman6846l.jp g Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com [mailto:AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com] On Behalf Of Amber Berglund Sent: Sunday, July 26, 2009 3:18 PM To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] A Close up pic/Amber, nice shot I don't use a flash, I use the fish tank lighting and set my camera up with the proper lighting settings so that the fish look the right color ;) Then I use the macro setting and get as close as I can without the auto focus focusing on the glass of the fish tank, which is usually about a 1/2 inch away from the glass, so if the fish are near the front of the tank I can get some really nice close up shots, just depends on if they're cooperating with me ;) LOL. Oh and I usually have the light off in the room I'm standing in, that way the fish tank lighting appears brighter for my camera, not to mention this is my highest lighted tank of all of them, so it's pretty bright in there ;) Amber harry perry wrote: > > > How did you get this shot without a flash back from the glass?. > > Thanks > > Harry > > --- On Sun, 7/26/09, Amber Berglund <arberglund@gmail. com > <mailto:arberglund% 40gmail.com> > wrote: > > From: Amber Berglund <arberglund@gmail. com > <mailto:arberglund% 40gmail.com> > > Subject: [AquaticLife] Albino BN Pleco Close up pic > To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com <mailto:AquaticLife %40yahoogroups. > com> > Date: Sunday, July 26, 2009, 3:53 PM > > > > Got a nice close up shot of one of my Albino BN pleco's, just thought > > I'd share with the group, still can't tell gender quite yet, but still > a > > nice looking fish IMO :) > > http://farm3. static.flickr. com/2444/ 3758521427_ 8529f81ef2_ o.jpg > > Amber ------------------------------------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the home page. Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com to receive the digest, which includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com for the No E-Mail option where you will still be able to read messages on the group and post replies. Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com to receive individual e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 42333	From: harry perry	Date: 7/26/2009
Subject: Re: A Close up pic/Amber, nice shot/Lenny/Amber

I clicked forward and then I edited the link. Extra spaces and the g. Thanks Harry --- On Sun, 7/26/09, Amber Berglund <arberglund@...> wrote: From: Amber Berglund <arberglund@...> Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] A Close up pic/Amber, nice shot/Lenny To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Date: Sunday, July 26, 2009, 5:47 PM   It lost the g in jpg, just add it on to it in your browser and it'll work. Amber harry perry wrote: > > > 2nd link didn't work. > > Harry > > --- On Sun, 7/26/09, Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@gmail. com > <mailto:GoldLenny% 40gmail.com> > wrote: > > From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@gmail. com > <mailto:GoldLenny% 40gmail.com> > > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] A Close up pic/Amber, nice shot > To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com <mailto:AquaticLife %40yahoogroups. com> > Date: Sunday, July 26, 2009, 5:40 PM > > > > Yeah Harry.... you have to remember that Amber's tanks are lit up like the > > Sun. > > I'm surprised the fish don't look like this... > > http://www.theflori darentalcottage. com/images/ img0557.png > > I bet you thought I was gonna say this... > > http://www.cartoons tock.com/ newscartoons/ cartoonists/ rma/lowres/ > rman6846l. jp > > g > > Lenny Vasbinder > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com > > (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right > > side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) > > -----Original Message----- > > From: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com [mailto:AquaticLife @ yahoogroups. > com] On > > Behalf Of Amber Berglund > > Sent: Sunday, July 26, 2009 3:18 PM > > To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] A Close up pic/Amber, nice shot > > I don't use a flash, I use the fish tank lighting and set my camera up > with > > the proper lighting settings so that the fish look the right color > > ;) Then I use the macro setting and get as close as I can without the auto > > focus focusing on the glass of the fish tank, which is usually about a 1/2 > > inch away from the glass, so if the fish are near the front of the tank I > > can get some really nice close up shots, just depends on if they're > > cooperating with me ;) LOL. > > Oh and I usually have the light off in the room I'm standing in, that way > > the fish tank lighting appears brighter for my camera, not to mention this > > is my highest lighted tank of all of them, so it's pretty bright in > there ;) > > Amber > > harry perry wrote: > > > > > > > > > How did you get this shot without a flash back from the glass?. > > > > > > Thanks > > > > > > Harry > > > > > > --- On Sun, 7/26/09, Amber Berglund <arberglund@ gmail. com > > > <mailto:arberglund% 40gmail.com> > wrote: > > > > > > From: Amber Berglund <arberglund@ gmail. com > > > <mailto:arberglund% 40gmail.com> > > > > Subject: [AquaticLife] Albino BN Pleco Close up pic > > > To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com <mailto:AquaticLife > %40yahoogroups. com> > > > Date: Sunday, July 26, 2009, 3:53 PM > > > > > > > > > > > > Got a nice close up shot of one of my Albino BN pleco's, just thought > > > > > > I'd share with the group, still can't tell gender quite yet, but still > > > a > > > > > > nice looking fish IMO :) > > > > > > http://farm3. static.flickr. com/2444/ 3758521427_ 8529f81ef2_ o.jpg > > > > > > Amber > > > > > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 42334	From: Deenerz@aol.com	Date: 7/26/2009
Subject: Re: biG papa, a source for free fish in Florida

Speaking of invasive species and Florida fish farms. My friends and I from the PCCA in California did such a trip a few months ago. The article from Ad Konings should come out in Cichlid News in October I believe. It was a great trip and we had a lot of fun. I did not spend any time to speak of catching wild invasive fish, but my friends on the trip did. We were also allowed to catch and keep fish that had escaped from their vats and ponds into the sump area or catch basin for the entire fish farm. Lots of Central American, South American, and African Cichlids. It was a lot of work catching these fish as the run off ditches were obstructed or under the vats and the fish are smart enough to hide(go figure). -Mike Gale PCCA BOD Member SVAS BOD Member -----Original Message----- From: harry perry <harryfisherman@...> To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Sun, Jul 26, 2009 11:09 am Subject: [AquaticLife] biG papa, a source for free fish in Florida   Al Anderson wrote: > > > When I go to Fla. I look up the addresses of fish farms near where I > am and then drive near them and check out the barrow pits beside the > roads where you will find all kinds of fish from discus to Cory cats, > even bright red swordtails and mollies. > > > > Al Anderson > > 6246 N.Rural St. > > Indianapolis IN. 46220 > > 317 253 2170 > > 317 445 9570 > > augustand@sbcglobal .net > > Medicare for all Americans > > Send the others home to get it > > Where they were born including > > Wal Mart employees > > "If Fox, CBS, ABC, NBC are > > all paid to tell the same lie > > the American people will > > believe and pay for it with > > their votes." > > > > *From:* anubiasdesign@ yahoogroups. com > [mailto:anubiasdesign@ yahoogroups. com] *On Behalf Of *BigJohnW@Webtv. net > *Sent:* Saturday, July 25, 2009 8:16 PM > *To:* anubiasdesign@ yahoogroups. com > *Subject:* Re: [anubiasdesign] Fw: [AquaticLife] Invasive species of > Florida > > > > > > thats alot of invasive fish, didnt realize it was that bad... t hanks > for that info. I guess if there was one invasive species in florida, > why couldint it be L46?? > > John > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 42335	From: Deenerz@aol.com	Date: 7/26/2009
Subject: Re: Fw: [anubiasdesign] Re: Invasive species. Dumb and Dumber

Larry, Some foolish angler probably did this. My family fishes so I am not picking on fisherman in general, just the fool that thought it would be neat to catch these near their home! -Mike -----Original Message----- From: harry perry <harryfisherman@...> To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Sun, Jul 26, 2009 11:17 am Subject: [AquaticLife] Fw: [anubiasdesign] Re: Invasive species. Dumb and Dumber > > harry perry wrote: > > > > > > When I Googled Ca invasive fish species I found that Ca dumped 17,000 > > gals. of pesticide into lake Davis in an attempt to rid it of Northern > > Pike. The pesticide is linked to Parkinson's disease.This cost millions. 6 months later the Pike were back. > > > > Where do they find these people who run the fish and game depts. in > > Florida and Ca. > > > > Harry > > > > > > > Which asks the question= 'Where did the pike come from in the first place?'. You can't really place the blame on the pet industry or hobbyists as seems to be the norm. Northern pike are not exactly a staple aquarium fish. Larry [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 42336	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 7/26/2009
Subject: Re: A Close up pic/Amber, nice shot/Lenny

You know... I rarely ever actually "open" an email as I read the majority of my email in plain text mode in the reading panel of Outlook so the "Edit" function was never something I would use on an email I was actually reading but I recently moved a sent "Newsletter" email to my Drafts folder in Outlook to use as a "Draft" for the next edition and then when I opened that email, I was about to click "Forward" to be able to start editing it and then I saw the "Edit Message" option under the Edit Menu and this was the first time I've ever used that option... so my head is still stuck on the Forward option to open an email for editing. I'll try to remember that with Outlook, one can open an incoming email and actually edit it... BUT... can that be done on other mail reader clients and or webmail sites? I'm pretty sure the editing of an email that appears to about to be forwarded can be edited by any mail reader client or webmail editing feature. -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Steve Szabo Sent: Sunday, July 26, 2009 5:48 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] A Close up pic/Amber, nice shot/Lenny Lenny, You could just "edit" the message also, to repair the broken link. \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Lenny V. aka GoldLenny Sent: Sunday, July 26, 2009 6:10 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] A Close up pic/Amber, nice shot/Lenny Dang Yahoo Groups. God forbid a link is longer than they like. Do like I do. Just open the email as a "forward", then re-edit the broken link by removing the spaces until the link is back together and then click it. It's kind of like playing "All the King's horses and all the King's men", except you can put the link back together again... as I did below. ;-) They were both broken to pieces when I got this reply. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of harry perry Sent: Sunday, July 26, 2009 4:45 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] A Close up pic/Amber, nice shot/Lenny 2nd link didn't work. Harry --- On Sun, 7/26/09, Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@...> wrote: From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@...> Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] A Close up pic/Amber, nice shot To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Date: Sunday, July 26, 2009, 5:40 PM   Yeah Harry.... you have to remember that Amber's tanks are lit up like the Sun. I'm surprised the fish don't look like this... http://www.thefloridarentalcottage.com/images/img0557.png I bet you thought I was gonna say this... http://www.cartoonstock.com/newscartoons/cartoonists/rma/lowres/rman6846l.jp g Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com [mailto:AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com] On Behalf Of Amber Berglund Sent: Sunday, July 26, 2009 3:18 PM To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] A Close up pic/Amber, nice shot I don't use a flash, I use the fish tank lighting and set my camera up with the proper lighting settings so that the fish look the right color ;) Then I use the macro setting and get as close as I can without the auto focus focusing on the glass of the fish tank, which is usually about a 1/2 inch away from the glass, so if the fish are near the front of the tank I can get some really nice close up shots, just depends on if they're cooperating with me ;) LOL. Oh and I usually have the light off in the room I'm standing in, that way the fish tank lighting appears brighter for my camera, not to mention this is my highest lighted tank of all of them, so it's pretty bright in there ;) Amber harry perry wrote: > > > How did you get this shot without a flash back from the glass?. > > Thanks > > Harry > > --- On Sun, 7/26/09, Amber Berglund <arberglund@gmail. com > <mailto:arberglund% 40gmail.com> > wrote: > > From: Amber Berglund <arberglund@gmail. com > <mailto:arberglund% 40gmail.com> > > Subject: [AquaticLife] Albino BN Pleco Close up pic > To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com <mailto:AquaticLife %40yahoogroups. > com> > Date: Sunday, July 26, 2009, 3:53 PM > > > > Got a nice close up shot of one of my Albino BN pleco's, just thought > > I'd share with the group, still can't tell gender quite yet, but still > a > > nice looking fish IMO :) > > http://farm3. static.flickr. com/2444/ 3758521427_ 8529f81ef2_ o.jpg > > Amber

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 42337	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 7/26/2009
Subject: Re: Albino BN Pleco Close up pic

Or at least he could eat the algae to make smiley clown faces on the glass. <G> Them balloon animals might be tough in the water... unless he did water-balloon animals. ;-) Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of pam andress Sent: Sunday, July 26, 2009 4:38 PM To: aquaticlife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Albino BN Pleco Close up pic Get him a hat and some tiny balloons too and maybe you can teach him to make ballon animals. :) It is probably a female, but I'm not sure. It does have some tiny bristles, but females can get some too. Pam To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com From: GoldLenny@... Date: Sun, 26 Jul 2009 16:32:43 -0500 Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Albino BN Pleco Close up pic I'm pretty sure that's a female. Maybe Pam can address this better but when I was shopping around for a new dwarf pleco last year, I looked at some juvi BN's and even at an inch or so, the males had their bristles. I ended up getting a Clown pleco since my LFS was selling the albino BN's for $12.00 each and the Clown pleco was only around $3.00... hey, that's a lot of dollar value meals and the Clown stays smaller anyhow, although he's not really much of a clown. ;-) He mostly stays hidden except for when he's out feeding. Maybe I need to put a little clown car decoration in the tank. LOL Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Amber Berglund Sent: Sunday, July 26, 2009 2:53 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Albino BN Pleco Close up pic Got a nice close up shot of one of my Albino BN pleco's, just thought I'd share with the group, still can't tell gender quite yet, but still a nice looking fish IMO :) http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2444/3758521427_8529f81ef2_o.jpg Amber

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 42338	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 7/26/2009
Subject: Re: Newbie

And are you planning to keep fish and if yes, what kind? Do you have plans for a filter system? If the pond is a "mini-pond" under 1,000G, then you could get by with a DIY pre-filter around one of your pumps and a lower bioload of fish. If your pond is bigger or if you plan on having a full bioload or overload of fish, then an external filter (either purchased or DIY) would be advised for easier maintenance to remove the detritus (fish waste, plant matter, other junk that makes it into the pond, etc.) from the filter media. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Steve Szabo Sent: Sunday, July 26, 2009 1:35 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Newbie How big is your pond in gallons? What are the specs on each pump--how many gallons per hour at what head? Is the flow rate of either adjustable? Water lilies also do well in waters with little movement. Whether you can do a fountain or not depends on what you have now, or may be able to get. \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of chelseablue06 Sent: Sunday, July 26, 2009 10:03 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Newbie Hi, new here, live in Port Stephens Australia and am surrounded by critters of all shapes and sizes. Currently having a koala invasion in my back yard so planting to keep them out the back, which is where my newly built pond is. Guess that is better than the blue tongue lizards in my dining room! I currently have Burrowing frogs, Crinia tinnula (VERY pleased with those) and Crinnia signifera hanging around the pond. Have heard the Litoria caerulea but they seem to be staying in the staghorns so far. Heard others but have not identified them as yet. My pond is planted out with natives eg Villarsia and Balloskian in pond (waiting for water lilly season here) and Dianella, Flannel Flowers. bromeliads, lillipilly etc around it with Azolla floating on it. It has rocks on the bottom and 3 different depths and have a 2 pumps ready to install a fountain but not sure if either will be too big as I the frogs likes the still water. Would appreciate any help or advice on maintaining pond health without using chemicals.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 42339	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 7/26/2009
Subject: Re: A Close up pic/Amber, nice shot/Lenny

It has been a while since I have used any client other than Outlook, so I cannot answer that question properly off the top of my head. Since most of my mail comes through Exchange servers at home and work (yes, I have my own mail server), it is unlikely that I'll be using another mail client anytime soon. I knew you used outlook, so that remark was directed at you. FWIW, using the reading pane is considered to be bad practice still, and my normal recommendation is to set up your Inbox view to messages with auto preview which gives you the first few lines of each new message to help you decide if you are going to read or delete it, unread. \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Lenny V. aka GoldLenny Sent: Sunday, July 26, 2009 9:58 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] A Close up pic/Amber, nice shot/Lenny You know... I rarely ever actually "open" an email as I read the majority of my email in plain text mode in the reading panel of Outlook so the "Edit" function was never something I would use on an email I was actually reading but I recently moved a sent "Newsletter" email to my Drafts folder in Outlook to use as a "Draft" for the next edition and then when I opened that email, I was about to click "Forward" to be able to start editing it and then I saw the "Edit Message" option under the Edit Menu and this was the first time I've ever used that option... so my head is still stuck on the Forward option to open an email for editing. I'll try to remember that with Outlook, one can open an incoming email and actually edit it... BUT... can that be done on other mail reader clients and or webmail sites? I'm pretty sure the editing of an email that appears to about to be forwarded can be edited by any mail reader client or webmail editing feature. -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Steve Szabo Sent: Sunday, July 26, 2009 5:48 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] A Close up pic/Amber, nice shot/Lenny Lenny, You could just "edit" the message also, to repair the broken link. \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Lenny V. aka GoldLenny Sent: Sunday, July 26, 2009 6:10 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] A Close up pic/Amber, nice shot/Lenny Dang Yahoo Groups. God forbid a link is longer than they like. Do like I do. Just open the email as a "forward", then re-edit the broken link by removing the spaces until the link is back together and then click it. It's kind of like playing "All the King's horses and all the King's men", except you can put the link back together again... as I did below. ;-) They were both broken to pieces when I got this reply. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of harry perry Sent: Sunday, July 26, 2009 4:45 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] A Close up pic/Amber, nice shot/Lenny 2nd link didn't work. Harry --- On Sun, 7/26/09, Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@...> wrote: From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@...> Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] A Close up pic/Amber, nice shot To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Date: Sunday, July 26, 2009, 5:40 PM   Yeah Harry.... you have to remember that Amber's tanks are lit up like the Sun. I'm surprised the fish don't look like this... http://www.thefloridarentalcottage.com/images/img0557.png I bet you thought I was gonna say this... http://www.cartoonstock.com/newscartoons/cartoonists/rma/lowres/rman6846l.jp g Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com [mailto:AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com] On Behalf Of Amber Berglund Sent: Sunday, July 26, 2009 3:18 PM To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] A Close up pic/Amber, nice shot I don't use a flash, I use the fish tank lighting and set my camera up with the proper lighting settings so that the fish look the right color ;) Then I use the macro setting and get as close as I can without the auto focus focusing on the glass of the fish tank, which is usually about a 1/2 inch away from the glass, so if the fish are near the front of the tank I can get some really nice close up shots, just depends on if they're cooperating with me ;) LOL. Oh and I usually have the light off in the room I'm standing in, that way the fish tank lighting appears brighter for my camera, not to mention this is my highest lighted tank of all of them, so it's pretty bright in there ;) Amber harry perry wrote: > > > How did you get this shot without a flash back from the glass?. > > Thanks > > Harry > > --- On Sun, 7/26/09, Amber Berglund <arberglund@gmail. com > <mailto:arberglund% 40gmail.com> > wrote: > > From: Amber Berglund <arberglund@gmail. com > <mailto:arberglund% 40gmail.com> > > Subject: [AquaticLife] Albino BN Pleco Close up pic > To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com <mailto:AquaticLife %40yahoogroups. > com> > Date: Sunday, July 26, 2009, 3:53 PM > > > > Got a nice close up shot of one of my Albino BN pleco's, just thought > > I'd share with the group, still can't tell gender quite yet, but still > a > > nice looking fish IMO :) > > http://farm3. static.flickr. com/2444/ 3758521427_ 8529f81ef2_ o.jpg > > Amber ------------------------------------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the home page. Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com to receive the digest, which includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com for the No E-Mail option where you will still be able to read messages on the group and post replies. Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com to receive individual e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 42340	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 7/26/2009
Subject: Re: A Close up pic/Amber, nice shot/Lenny

I know that using the reading pane in Outlook and/or Outlook Express can be a security issue, if not configured properly... as can anything being done on a computer... which is why I said "in plain text" as reading email with the reading pane in plain text eliminates any of the potential security issues... unless you know something else I should be aware of. I've had to explain my system to other folks over the years, including the Outlook-Users Group as well... as the "general rule" out there is to NOT use the reading pane but when it is configured properly, the reading pane is just as safe as any other email reading method. First, since I use Gmail as a filter for all of my mail, I rarely get any spam into my inbox or folders so I'm getting mail from known persons, mailing lists, etc., for the most part. I NEVER read mail from "strangers", such as potential new customers, etc., in anything other than plain text. This stops any html/Word-macro based attacks and stops spammers from finding out they found a "good" email address based on an image being viewed since I do not view any of their images unless and until I choose to convert the email to HTML and/or View Images, which I do not do unless I have a reasonable comfort in knowing the email is from a safe sender. Last but not least, I have multiple layers of security running from a hardware and software firewall to active and updated anti-virus, anti-malware, etc. If you know of any other security issues with using the Reading Pane that I did not address above, let me know but I've been doing it this way in Outlook Express (many years ago) and started using the same system with Outlook 2003 when I made the switch to Outlook. I've NEVER had an infection related to an email... at least none that I know of. The majority of the rarely found malware on my computers come from super-surfing sessions where I go roaming around the web but even those files are found and stopped before they can become active and/or do any damage to my computers. BTW.. I've only used IE, now version 8, on my computers from the beginning and by using safe-surfing techniques and settings in IE, and using multi-layers security, I've NEVER had a malware attack that resulted in anything more than it being immediately found and removed without it ever doing any damage to any of my computers or sending out any of my information to hackers... as far as I know. The majority of the malware files that are found are "found" when I use CCleaner on a daily basis and when CCleaner is cleaning out the TIF files, Comodo will occasionally alert on any fly-by downloads from the internet, that were sitting in the TIF files, but these files were never executed or opened until CCleaner proceeds to trash them and then Comodo catches them and they are quarantined. I guess, if I ever have any security issues that I become alarmed about with using IE, I might decide to switch to an alternative browser but I KNOW that alternative browsers are JUST AS vulnerable as IE but they are not attacked as often as hackers spend their time going after IE instead of the lesser used alternatives. Now that FireFox is starting to gain a little market share, I see many more attacks on their browser in the security newsletters that I read. I did recently start to get rid of some Adobe products since they are under attack so much lately, such as Adobe's PDF Reader and I am now using PDF-Xchange which is much less of a resource hog. I also LOVE many of the PDF editing features that are available with PDF-Xchange, compared to Foxit which is a nice little reader but doesn't have as many features. I recommend either of these to folks wanting to dump Adobe's PDF Reader. Just make sure you do a full uninstall and clean-up of Adobe before installing one of these optional FREE readers. Now, I'm researching alternative Flash viewers but haven't found as many. Hopefully, website developers will catch up and/or get ahead of some of the hackers success at using their websites as fly-by attack mechanisms. OK... Fish! Had to get back on topic. ;-) Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Steve Szabo Sent: Sunday, July 26, 2009 9:20 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] A Close up pic/Amber, nice shot/Lenny It has been a while since I have used any client other than Outlook, so I cannot answer that question properly off the top of my head. Since most of my mail comes through Exchange servers at home and work (yes, I have my own mail server), it is unlikely that I'll be using another mail client anytime soon. I knew you used outlook, so that remark was directed at you. FWIW, using the reading pane is considered to be bad practice still, and my normal recommendation is to set up your Inbox view to messages with auto preview which gives you the first few lines of each new message to help you decide if you are going to read or delete it, unread. \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Lenny V. aka GoldLenny Sent: Sunday, July 26, 2009 9:58 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] A Close up pic/Amber, nice shot/Lenny You know... I rarely ever actually "open" an email as I read the majority of my email in plain text mode in the reading panel of Outlook so the "Edit" function was never something I would use on an email I was actually reading but I recently moved a sent "Newsletter" email to my Drafts folder in Outlook to use as a "Draft" for the next edition and then when I opened that email, I was about to click "Forward" to be able to start editing it and then I saw the "Edit Message" option under the Edit Menu and this was the first time I've ever used that option... so my head is still stuck on the Forward option to open an email for editing. I'll try to remember that with Outlook, one can open an incoming email and actually edit it... BUT... can that be done on other mail reader clients and or webmail sites? I'm pretty sure the editing of an email that appears to about to be forwarded can be edited by any mail reader client or webmail editing feature. -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Steve Szabo Sent: Sunday, July 26, 2009 5:48 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] A Close up pic/Amber, nice shot/Lenny Lenny, You could just "edit" the message also, to repair the broken link. \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Lenny V. aka GoldLenny Sent: Sunday, July 26, 2009 6:10 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] A Close up pic/Amber, nice shot/Lenny Dang Yahoo Groups. God forbid a link is longer than they like. Do like I do. Just open the email as a "forward", then re-edit the broken link by removing the spaces until the link is back together and then click it. It's kind of like playing "All the King's horses and all the King's men", except you can put the link back together again... as I did below. ;-) They were both broken to pieces when I got this reply. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of harry perry Sent: Sunday, July 26, 2009 4:45 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] A Close up pic/Amber, nice shot/Lenny 2nd link didn't work. Harry --- On Sun, 7/26/09, Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@...> wrote: From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@...> Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] A Close up pic/Amber, nice shot To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Date: Sunday, July 26, 2009, 5:40 PM   Yeah Harry.... you have to remember that Amber's tanks are lit up like the Sun. I'm surprised the fish don't look like this... http://www.thefloridarentalcottage.com/images/img0557.png I bet you thought I was gonna say this... http://www.cartoonstock.com/newscartoons/cartoonists/rma/lowres/rman6846l.jp g Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com [mailto:AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com] On Behalf Of Amber Berglund Sent: Sunday, July 26, 2009 3:18 PM To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] A Close up pic/Amber, nice shot I don't use a flash, I use the fish tank lighting and set my camera up with the proper lighting settings so that the fish look the right color ;) Then I use the macro setting and get as close as I can without the auto focus focusing on the glass of the fish tank, which is usually about a 1/2 inch away from the glass, so if the fish are near the front of the tank I can get some really nice close up shots, just depends on if they're cooperating with me ;) LOL. Oh and I usually have the light off in the room I'm standing in, that way the fish tank lighting appears brighter for my camera, not to mention this is my highest lighted tank of all of them, so it's pretty bright in there ;) Amber harry perry wrote: > > > How did you get this shot without a flash back from the glass?. > > Thanks > > Harry > > --- On Sun, 7/26/09, Amber Berglund <arberglund@gmail. com > <mailto:arberglund% 40gmail.com> > wrote: > > From: Amber Berglund <arberglund@gmail. com > <mailto:arberglund% 40gmail.com> > > Subject: [AquaticLife] Albino BN Pleco Close up pic > To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com <mailto:AquaticLife %40yahoogroups. > com> > Date: Sunday, July 26, 2009, 3:53 PM > > > > Got a nice close up shot of one of my Albino BN pleco's, just thought > > I'd share with the group, still can't tell gender quite yet, but still > a > > nice looking fish IMO :) > > http://farm3. static.flickr. com/2444/ 3758521427_ 8529f81ef2_ o.jpg > > Amber ------------------------------------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the home page. Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com to receive the digest, which includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com for the No E-Mail option where you will still be able to read messages on the group and post replies. Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com to receive individual e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links ------------------------------------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the home page. Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com to receive the digest, which includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com for the No E-Mail option where you will still be able to read messages on the group and post replies. Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com to receive individual e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 42341	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 7/26/2009
Subject: Re: A Close up pic, more Pics of BN Pleco's

I got some close up's of a couple (could be the same pleco not sure, LOL) of my brown BN pleco's. Little guy's still but growing fast already. Pam sent me 3 of the little guys. http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2510/3761048018_59c90842fb_b.jpg and http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2502/3760250275_2dc1e32a97_b.jpg And thanks again Pam, love all the new additions to the tank :) Amber

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 42342	From: nicurns@bellsouth.net	Date: 7/27/2009
Subject: Re: Albino BN Pleco Close up pic

I would like some of those as well. How much does Pam sell them for? James S. --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, Amber Berglund <arberglund@...> wrote: > > Got a nice close up shot of one of my Albino BN pleco's, just thought > I'd share with the group, still can't tell gender quite yet, but still a > nice looking fish IMO :) > http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2444/3758521427_8529f81ef2_o.jpg > > Amber >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 42343	From: Courtland Jacob	Date: 7/27/2009
Subject: Re: biocube

they are expensive brand new, asking 200 but i'm flexible --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@...> wrote: > > Uh oh... this is one of them moments of "If you have to ask how much, you > probably can't afford it!" LOL > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right > side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) > > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On > Behalf Of Courtland Jacob > Sent: Sunday, July 26, 2009 3:26 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Subject: [AquaticLife] biocube > > anyone in louisiana want to buy a 29 gallon biocube? >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 42344	From: pam andress	Date: 7/27/2009
Subject: Re: Albino BN Pleco Close up pic

$3.00 each Pam To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com From: james_kristi@... Date: Mon, 27 Jul 2009 14:10:43 +0000 Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Albino BN Pleco Close up pic I would like some of those as well. How much does Pam sell them for? James S. --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, Amber Berglund <arberglund@...> wrote: > > Got a nice close up shot of one of my Albino BN pleco's, just thought > I'd share with the group, still can't tell gender quite yet, but still a > nice looking fish IMO :) > http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2444/3758521427_8529f81ef2_o.jpg > > Amber > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 42345	From: rosette55@webtv.net	Date: 7/27/2009
Subject: biocube

hi, i am not close to buy the Biorb but i am still looking for comments about it, if you don't mind--couldn't tell looking at the website how you would get a heater cord through the lid--do they leave a space--also it's terrible on the website they show like 4 goldfish in an 8 gallon container! in fact if you browse the smaller setups in the stores they always show in the photos WAY more fish than the container size could maintain. this seems so irresponsible! Samantha

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 42346	From: pam andress	Date: 7/27/2009
Subject: Re: Albino BN Pleco Close up pic

oops. thats for browns. albinos are 4 To: aquaticlife@yahoogroups.com From: pamandress23@... Date: Mon, 27 Jul 2009 17:57:44 +0000 Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: Albino BN Pleco Close up pic $3.00 each Pam To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com From: james_kristi@... Date: Mon, 27 Jul 2009 14:10:43 +0000 Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Albino BN Pleco Close up pic I would like some of those as well. How much does Pam sell them for? James S. --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, Amber Berglund <arberglund@...> wrote: > > Got a nice close up shot of one of my Albino BN pleco's, just thought > I'd share with the group, still can't tell gender quite yet, but still a > nice looking fish IMO :) > http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2444/3758521427_8529f81ef2_o.jpg > > Amber > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 42347	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 7/27/2009
Subject: Re: Albino BN Pleco Close up pic

And that's a GREAT price based on my LFS pricing... and I'm pretty sure Amber's LFS too. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of pam andress Sent: Monday, July 27, 2009 12:58 PM To: aquaticlife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: Albino BN Pleco Close up pic $3.00 each Pam To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com From: james_kristi@... Date: Mon, 27 Jul 2009 14:10:43 +0000 Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Albino BN Pleco Close up pic I would like some of those as well. How much does Pam sell them for? James S. --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, Amber Berglund <arberglund@...> wrote: > > Got a nice close up shot of one of my Albino BN pleco's, just thought > I'd share with the group, still can't tell gender quite yet, but still > a nice looking fish IMO :) > http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2444/3758521427_8529f81ef2_o.jpg > > Amber >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 42348	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 7/27/2009
Subject: Re: Albino BN Pleco Close up pic

My lfs only has giant plecos for sale so yes its a wonderful deal plus my fedex discount on shipping. Now you see why I'm boycotting the lfs lol. Amber On Jul 27, 2009 2:07 PM, "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@...> wrote: And that's a GREAT price based on my LFS pricing... and I'm pretty sure Amber's LFS too. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in ab... Sent: Monday, July 27, 2009 12:58 PM To: aquaticlife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: Albino BN Pleco Close up pic $3.00 each Pam To: AquaticLife@yahoo... [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 42349	From: nicurns@bellsouth.net	Date: 7/27/2009
Subject: Re: Albino BN Pleco Close up pic

Pam do you operate a store, or do you just breed fish as a hobby? If so....what other types of fish do you sell? James S.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 42350	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 7/27/2009
Subject: Re: Albino BN Pleco Close up pic

Gosh Pam look at all the business you're getting ;) LOL. See, you should advertise your pleco's a little more often, or I could just periodically post pictures of how cute they are, LOL. Amber nicurns@... wrote: > > > Pam do you operate a store, or do you just breed fish as a hobby? If > so....what other types of fish do you sell? > > James S. > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 42351	From: pam andress	Date: 7/27/2009
Subject: Re: Albino BN Pleco Close up pic

I don't mind the business, I just don't want to get the site owner upset with doing it on here. Keep showing those pics though. Pam To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com From: arberglund@... Date: Mon, 27 Jul 2009 18:27:06 -0800 Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: Albino BN Pleco Close up pic Gosh Pam look at all the business you're getting ;) LOL. See, you should advertise your pleco's a little more often, or I could just periodically post pictures of how cute they are, LOL. Amber nicurns@... wrote: > > > Pam do you operate a store, or do you just breed fish as a hobby? If > so....what other types of fish do you sell? > > James S. > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 42352	From: toddswoman496861@aim.com	Date: 7/27/2009
Subject: Re: Albino BN Pleco Close up pic

I will be ordering a couple from you on the 3rd just need to know who to have the bank make the check out to( I use cashiers checks to pay bills with. ) and would need an address to have it sent to Kate Dale -----Original Message----- From: pam andress <pamandress23@...> To: aquaticlife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Mon, Jul 27, 2009 1:57 pm Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: Albino BN Pleco Close up pic 3.00 each Pam o: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com rom: james_kristi@... ate: Mon, 27 Jul 2009 14:10:43 +0000 ubject: [AquaticLife] Re: Albino BN Pleco Close up pic I would like some of those as well. How much does Pam sell them for? James S. --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, Amber Berglund <arberglund@...> wrote: Got a nice close up shot of one of my Albino BN pleco's, just thought I'd share with the group, still can't tell gender quite yet, but still a nice looking fish IMO :) http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2444/3758521427_8529f81ef2_o.jpg Amber Non-text portions of this message have been removed] ------------------------------------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. ´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> LEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the eply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> .e. "new su bject (was re: old subject)" <- º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. e Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of unsubscribing, you can hange your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the home age. Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com to receive the digest, which ncludes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com for the No E-Mail option where you ill still be able to read messages on the group and post replies. Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com to receive individual e-mails.Yahoo! roups Links Individual Email | Traditional http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 42353	From: pam andress	Date: 7/27/2009
Subject: Re: Albino BN Pleco Close up pic

Pam Andress 6500 S State Rd 39 North Judson, IN 46366 Or you can paypal me with this email address. Pam To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com From: toddswoman496861@... Date: Mon, 27 Jul 2009 14:14:30 -0400 Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: Albino BN Pleco Close up pic I will be ordering a couple from you on the 3rd just need to know who to have the bank make the check out to( I use cashiers checks to pay bills with. ) and would need an address to have it sent to Kate Dale -----Original Message----- From: pam andress <pamandress23@...> To: aquaticlife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Mon, Jul 27, 2009 1:57 pm Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: Albino BN Pleco Close up pic 3.00 each Pam o: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com rom: james_kristi@... ate: Mon, 27 Jul 2009 14:10:43 +0000 ubject: [AquaticLife] Re: Albino BN Pleco Close up pic I would like some of those as well. How much does Pam sell them for? James S. --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, Amber Berglund <arberglund@...> wrote: Got a nice close up shot of one of my Albino BN pleco's, just thought I'd share with the group, still can't tell gender quite yet, but still a nice looking fish IMO :) http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2444/3758521427_8529f81ef2_o.jpg Amber Non-text portions of this message have been removed] ------------------------------------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. ´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> LEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the eply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> .e. "new su bject (was re: old subject)" <- º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. e Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of unsubscribing, you can hange your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the home age. Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com to receive the digest, which ncludes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com for the No E-Mail option where you ill still be able to read messages on the group and post replies. Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com to receive individual e-mails.Yahoo! roups Links Individual Email | Traditional http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 42354	From: aaron102272	Date: 7/27/2009
Subject: Re: Albino BN Pleco Close up pic

I don't mind, in fact I'm considering getting some myself. However, I have not yet discussed with any of the Moderators as to their views regarding selling and/or trading trough this group. I reckon as long as it is not considered S*P*A*M (will that allow the message to get through the filters?), it outta be encouraged. I'd like to have a network of fellow hobbyists that I can get good quality fish and plants from at reasonable prices. It is more interesting to purchase from a person rather than a website or big box store. For the group members that primarily participate through email, there is a new feature available in the group. Perhaps we can include in our "Group Profile" (one of the new Application) what fish we breed and have available for sale/trade so those that are interested can contact us directly. I think that might be a better way than potentially dozens of messages being sent "advertising" items for sale (there is already an Application for that as well). * Groups Labs (Beta) Applications http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife/grouplets/subscriptions Thank you, Aaron --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, pam andress <pamandress23@...> wrote: > > > I don't mind the business, I just don't want to get the site owner upset with doing it on here. Keep showing those pics though. > > > > Pam >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 42355	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 7/28/2009
Subject: Re: Albino BN Pleco Close up pic

Most forums actually have free "Classified" sections where folks can post their Wanted/For Sale items. Since this is such a busy email group, maybe we can start off with a once a month limit by any member to start their own thread about items/fish they may have for sale/trade, with instructions to take the actual sale/barter conversation off-list. I'm sure that most folks do not want their addresses and such being sent out to thousands of members anyhow... and most members, except maybe Hannibal Lector, do not want to know where *you* live. ;-) Aaron, I think one of the new *grouplets* is a Wanted/For Sale feature but since the majority of folks in this forum use email to receive and reply to the group, they may not feel inclined to surf through the *grouplets* section and thus never see any information in that section. Most of the people that are interested in Pam's BN Plecos would not even know she had them for sale at such a good price if Amber hadn't started up the thread. I personally have mentioned Pam as a seller many times since she doesn't mention it herself. Once again, while the introduction post about stuff for sale with a few Q & A's back and forth are OK, IMO, any actual deals and exchange of information should be done off-list... unless someone wants to post their AMEX Platinum card number on-list. If you do, please do not forget to include your PIN number and that little 3-digit CVS number on the back though... otherwise my travel agent may not allow me to use it for the purchase of my around-the-world trip and the new Lexus waiting in my garage when I return in a few months. Oh yeah, include your address too so I can send you a bunch of thank you postcards. ;-) Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of aaron102272 Sent: Tuesday, July 28, 2009 1:58 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Albino BN Pleco Close up pic I don't mind, in fact I'm considering getting some myself. However, I have not yet discussed with any of the Moderators as to their views regarding selling and/or trading trough this group. I reckon as long as it is not considered S*P*A*M (will that allow the message to get through the filters?), it outta be encouraged. I'd like to have a network of fellow hobbyists that I can get good quality fish and plants from at reasonable prices. It is more interesting to purchase from a person rather than a website or big box store. For the group members that primarily participate through email, there is a new feature available in the group. Perhaps we can include in our "Group Profile" (one of the new Application) what fish we breed and have available for sale/trade so those that are interested can contact us directly. I think that might be a better way than potentially dozens of messages being sent "advertising" items for sale (there is already an Application for that as well). * Groups Labs (Beta) Applications http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife/grouplets/subscriptions Thank you, Aaron --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, pam andress <pamandress23@...> wrote: > > > I don't mind the business, I just don't want to get the site owner upset with doing it on here. Keep showing those pics though. > > > > Pam >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 42356	From: toddswoman496861@aim.com	Date: 7/28/2009
Subject: Re: Albino BN Pleco Close up pic

well it is hearing all the praise that you have given out about her and others have said that convinced me Kate Dale -----Original Message----- From: Amber Berglund <arberglund@...> To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Mon, Jul 27, 2009 10:27 pm Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: Albino BN Pleco Close up pic Gosh Pam look at all the business you're getting ;) LOL. ee, you should advertise your pleco's a little more often, or I could ust periodically post pictures of how cute they are, LOL. Amber nicurns@... wrote: Pam do you operate a store, or do you just breed fish as a hobby? If so....what other types of fish do you sell? James S. ----------------------------------- Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. ´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> LEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the eply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> .e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. e Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of unsubscribing, you can hange your delivery op tion by clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the home age. Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com to receive the digest, which ncludes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com for the No E-Mail option where you ill still be able to read messages on the group and post replies. Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com to receive individual e-mails.Yahoo! roups Links Individual Email | Traditional http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 42357	From: bill 1433	Date: 7/28/2009
Subject: Re: Albino BN Pleco Close up pic

Hi Pam,   Sent message back a bit on asking what you had for sale.  Either you missed it or I missed your reply.   If your nervous about group please feel free to mail direct at: warrenprint@...   Thanks,   Bill --- On Mon, 7/27/09, pam andress <pamandress23@...> wrote: From: pam andress <pamandress23@...> Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: Albino BN Pleco Close up pic To: aquaticlife@yahoogroups.com Date: Monday, July 27, 2009, 10:30 PM I don't mind the business, I just don't want to get the site owner upset with doing it on here. Keep showing those pics though. Pam To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com From: arberglund@... Date: Mon, 27 Jul 2009 18:27:06 -0800 Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: Albino BN Pleco Close up pic   Gosh Pam look at all the business you're getting ;) LOL. See, you should advertise your pleco's a little more often, or I could just periodically post pictures of how cute they are, LOL. Amber nicurns@... wrote: > > > Pam do you operate a store, or do you just breed fish as a hobby? If > so....what other types of fish do you sell? > > James S. > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] ------------------------------------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the home page.  Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com to receive the digest, which includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com for the No E-Mail option where you will still be able to read messages on the group and post replies. Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com to receive individual e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 42358	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 7/28/2009
Subject: Re: Albino BN Pleco Close up pic

As far as I know she has both brown and albino BN pleco's, Plume tail platy's, A specific color of moscow guppy's (forget which color, LOL), and a selection of Mystery snails and cherry shrimp. She's working on breeding Cory's but has not had the luck yet. Did I forget anything Pam? ;) Amber bill 1433 wrote: > > > Hi Pam, > > Sent message back a bit on asking what you had for sale. Either you > missed it or I missed your reply. > > If your nervous about group please feel free to mail direct at: > warrenprint@... <mailto:warrenprint%40yahoo.com> > > Thanks, > > Bill > > --- On Mon, 7/27/09, pam andress <pamandress23@... > <mailto:pamandress23%40hotmail.com>> wrote: > > From: pam andress <pamandress23@... > <mailto:pamandress23%40hotmail.com>> > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: Albino BN Pleco Close up pic > To: aquaticlife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:aquaticlife%40yahoogroups.com> > Date: Monday, July 27, 2009, 10:30 PM > > I don't mind the business, I just don't want to get the site owner > upset with doing it on here. Keep showing those pics though. > > Pam > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > From: arberglund@... <mailto:arberglund%40gmail.com> > Date: Mon, 27 Jul 2009 18:27:06 -0800 > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: Albino BN Pleco Close up pic > > > > Gosh Pam look at all the business you're getting ;) LOL. > See, you should advertise your pleco's a little more often, or I could > just periodically post pictures of how cute they are, LOL. > > Amber > > nicurns@... <mailto:nicurns%40bellsouth.net> wrote: > > > > > > Pam do you operate a store, or do you just breed fish as a hobby? If > > so....what other types of fish do you sell? > > > > James S. > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > ------------------------------------ > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. > ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> > PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT > important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message > MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- > <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. > > If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of unsubscribing, > you can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My > Membership" on the home page. > > Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:aquaticlife-digest%40yahoogroups.com> to receive the digest, > which includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email > > Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:aquaticlife-nomail%40yahoogroups.com> for the No E-Mail option > where you will still be able to read messages on the group and post > replies. > > Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:aquaticlife-normal%40yahoogroups.com> to receive individual > e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 42359	From: pam andress	Date: 7/28/2009
Subject: Re: Albino BN Pleco Close up pic

Thanks for letting me know. I didn't want to upset anyone. So if anyone was interested in albino BN's, I only have 2 left and I think they are both females. They are about 3 inches. Now as for browns, I have a ton. lol Pam To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com From: aaron102272@... Date: Tue, 28 Jul 2009 06:58:25 +0000 Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Albino BN Pleco Close up pic I don't mind, in fact I'm considering getting some myself. However, I have not yet discussed with any of the Moderators as to their views regarding selling and/or trading trough this group. I reckon as long as it is not considered S*P*A*M (will that allow the message to get through the filters?), it outta be encouraged. I'd like to have a network of fellow hobbyists that I can get good quality fish and plants from at reasonable prices. It is more interesting to purchase from a person rather than a website or big box store. For the group members that primarily participate through email, there is a new feature available in the group. Perhaps we can include in our "Group Profile" (one of the new Application) what fish we breed and have available for sale/trade so those that are interested can contact us directly. I think that might be a better way than potentially dozens of messages being sent "advertising" items for sale (there is already an Application for that as well). * Groups Labs (Beta) Applications http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife/grouplets/subscriptions Thank you, Aaron --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, pam andress <pamandress23@...> wrote: > > > I don't mind the business, I just don't want to get the site owner upset with doing it on here. Keep showing those pics though. > > > > Pam > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 42360	From: nicurns@bellsouth.net	Date: 7/28/2009
Subject: Re: Albino BN Pleco Close up pic

Pam I am sorry as I had no idea asking for information regarding selling/buying or trading (fish/plants) would be discouraged. I wasn't aware this would be an issue as I had seen Ambers post re: her fish. I do apologize if I caused you any harm. James S. --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, pam andress <pamandress23@...> wrote: > > > I don't mind the business, I just don't want to get the site owner upset with doing it on here. Keep showing those pics though. > > > > Pam > > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > From: arberglund@... > Date: Mon, 27 Jul 2009 18:27:06 -0800 > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: Albino BN Pleco Close up pic > > > > > > Gosh Pam look at all the business you're getting ;) LOL. > See, you should advertise your pleco's a little more often, or I could > just periodically post pictures of how cute they are, LOL. > > Amber > > nicurns@... wrote: > > > > > > Pam do you operate a store, or do you just breed fish as a hobby? If > > so....what other types of fish do you sell? > > > > James S. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 42361	From: Gail	Date: 7/28/2009
Subject: Re: Snail behaviors

So it does appear to be a mating ritual going on between my two mystery snails, and I have looked into applesnail.net for information, however there is no timeline given for the Female snail laying her clutch of eggs. So, Does anyone know how long before my female will lay her eggs? It's been a few days. Do they wait months, or what? Any info would be helpful! thanks, Gail

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 42362	From: pam andress	Date: 7/28/2009
Subject: Re: Albino BN Pleco Close up pic

I sent a whole big email on what was in my tanks. I guess it didn't go thru. Right now I have lots of brown BN's. I have 2 (female I think) Albino BN's and some brown babies from albino parents. :( I will have to wait a bit to sell any cherry shrimp, but I have mystery snail (breeders) or lots of babies coming soon. Not available at the moment: black moscow guppies full red guppies black bar endlers plume tail platies cherry shrimp Also trying to breed: green shrimp weitzmini cories duplicarious cories metae cories panda cories pepper cories L333 plecos and a whip tail type pleco Discus To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com From: arberglund@... Date: Tue, 28 Jul 2009 06:47:28 -0800 Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: Albino BN Pleco Close up pic As far as I know she has both brown and albino BN pleco's, Plume tail platy's, A specific color of moscow guppy's (forget which color, LOL), and a selection of Mystery snails and cherry shrimp. She's working on breeding Cory's but has not had the luck yet. Did I forget anything Pam? ;) Amber bill 1433 wrote: > > > Hi Pam, > > Sent message back a bit on asking what you had for sale. Either you > missed it or I missed your reply. > > If your nervous about group please feel free to mail direct at: > warrenprint@... <mailto:warrenprint%40yahoo.com> > > Thanks, > > Bill > > --- On Mon, 7/27/09, pam andress <pamandress23@... > <mailto:pamandress23%40hotmail.com>> wrote: > > From: pam andress <pamandress23@... > <mailto:pamandress23%40hotmail.com>> > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: Albino BN Pleco Close up pic > To: aquaticlife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:aquaticlife%40yahoogroups.com> > Date: Monday, July 27, 2009, 10:30 PM > > I don't mind the business, I just don't want to get the site owner > upset with doing it on here. Keep showing those pics though. > > Pam > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > From: arberglund@... <mailto:arberglund%40gmail.com> > Date: Mon, 27 Jul 2009 18:27:06 -0800 > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: Albino BN Pleco Close up pic > > > > Gosh Pam look at all the business you're getting ;) LOL. > See, you should advertise your pleco's a little more often, or I could > just periodically post pictures of how cute they are, LOL. > > Amber > > nicurns@... <mailto:nicurns%40bellsouth.net> wrote: > > > > > > Pam do you operate a store, or do you just breed fish as a hobby? If > > so....what other types of fish do you sell? > > > > James S. > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > ------------------------------------ > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. > ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> > PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT > important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message > MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- > <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. > > If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of unsubscribing, > you can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My > Membership" on the home page. > > Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:aquaticlife-digest%40yahoogroups.com> to receive the digest, > which includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email > > Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:aquaticlife-nomail%40yahoogroups.com> for the No E-Mail option > where you will still be able to read messages on the group and post > replies. > > Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:aquaticlife-normal%40yahoogroups.com> to receive individual > e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 42363	From: pam andress	Date: 7/28/2009
Subject: Re: Snail behaviors

Never paid much attention to when they started laying after fooling around, but just keep looking for clutches above the water line. Pam To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com From: clandestine662002@... Date: Tue, 28 Jul 2009 16:02:46 +0000 Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Snail behaviors So it does appear to be a mating ritual going on between my two mystery snails, and I have looked into applesnail.net for information, however there is no timeline given for the Female snail laying her clutch of eggs. So, Does anyone know how long before my female will lay her eggs? It's been a few days. Do they wait months, or what? Any info would be helpful! thanks, Gail [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 42364	From: bill 1433	Date: 7/28/2009
Subject: Re: Albino BN Pleco Close up pic

Thanks Pam,   I'll save this message.  I was looking for plain simple Red Wag Platys and, of course, Rams.   The local Wal-Mart has some Platys but keeping them alive could come to a lot of praying and candle lighting as they are not in the best of condition.   As for your selling here on group?  I'm not the list owner or even a moderator but I fail to see how it could be even remotely bad or harmful, your helping to expand the hobby!  For myself, Amber and others who could not find a healthy fish within a hundred miles of our locations, your providing a valuable service!  Healthy Fish -----without putting on another mortgage. You go girl!   Bill --- On Tue, 7/28/09, pam andress <pamandress23@...> wrote: From: pam andress <pamandress23@...> Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: Albino BN Pleco Close up pic To: aquaticlife@yahoogroups.com Date: Tuesday, July 28, 2009, 12:25 PM I sent a whole big email on what was in my tanks. I guess it didn't go thru.. Right now I have lots of brown BN's. I have 2 (female I think) Albino BN's and some brown babies from albino parents. :( I will have to wait a bit to sell any cherry shrimp, but I have mystery snail (breeders) or lots of babies coming soon. Not available at the moment: black moscow guppies full red guppies black bar endlers plume tail platies cherry shrimp Also trying to breed: green shrimp weitzmini cories duplicarious cories metae cories panda cories pepper cories L333 plecos and a whip tail type pleco Discus To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com From: arberglund@... Date: Tue, 28 Jul 2009 06:47:28 -0800 Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: Albino BN Pleco Close up pic   As far as I know she has both brown and albino BN pleco's, Plume tail platy's, A specific color of moscow guppy's (forget which color, LOL), and a selection of Mystery snails and cherry shrimp. She's working on breeding Cory's but has not had the luck yet. Did I forget anything Pam? ;) Amber bill 1433 wrote: > > > Hi Pam, > > Sent message back a bit on asking what you had for sale. Either you > missed it or I missed your reply. > > If your nervous about group please feel free to mail direct at: > warrenprint@... <mailto:warrenprint%40yahoo.com> > > Thanks, > > Bill > > --- On Mon, 7/27/09, pam andress <pamandress23@... > <mailto:pamandress23%40hotmail.com>> wrote: > > From: pam andress <pamandress23@... > <mailto:pamandress23%40hotmail.com>> > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: Albino BN Pleco Close up pic > To: aquaticlife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:aquaticlife%40yahoogroups.com> > Date: Monday, July 27, 2009, 10:30 PM > > I don't mind the business, I just don't want to get the site owner > upset with doing it on here. Keep showing those pics though. > > Pam > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > From: arberglund@... <mailto:arberglund%40gmail.com> > Date: Mon, 27 Jul 2009 18:27:06 -0800 > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: Albino BN Pleco Close up pic > > > > Gosh Pam look at all the business you're getting ;) LOL. > See, you should advertise your pleco's a little more often, or I could > just periodically post pictures of how cute they are, LOL. > > Amber > > nicurns@... <mailto:nicurns%40bellsouth.net> wrote: > > > > > > Pam do you operate a store, or do you just breed fish as a hobby? If > > so....what other types of fish do you sell? > > > > James S. > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > ------------------------------------ > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You.. > ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> > PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT > important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message > MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- > <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. > > If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of unsubscribing, > you can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My > Membership" on the home page. > > Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:aquaticlife-digest%40yahoogroups.com> to receive the digest, > which includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email > > Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:aquaticlife-nomail%40yahoogroups.com> for the No E-Mail option > where you will still be able to read messages on the group and post > replies. > > Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:aquaticlife-normal%40yahoogroups.com> to receive individual > e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] ------------------------------------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the home page.  Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com to receive the digest, which includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com for the No E-Mail option where you will still be able to read messages on the group and post replies. Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com to receive individual e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 42365	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 7/28/2009
Subject: Re: Snail behaviors

http://applesnail.net/content/care.php includes a short section on Reproduction which says that a female can store sperm for months. Here's more from that section: There are a few things to be considered to successfully breed apple snails: - Since apple snails are gonochoristic (separated sexes), a male and a female snail are needed(obvious). - Apple snails reproduce when the temperature rises in combination with abundance of food available. - For those species that lay their eggs above the water, one should provide enough air space (+15cm/6 inch). - Some species might need an aestivation period in the mud before they breed successfully (does not apply to the most common species). It is also important to mention that female apple snails can store sperm for months, so even the eggs of a single snail can be fertile. With no male snail present, female apple snails occasionally produce infertile eggs. Obviously, these do no hatch. Last but not least: most species lay their eggs above the water and they should stay there while the eggs of aquatic layers should stay below the surface. At the right circumstances an apple snail can produce one clutch of eggs every 4-7 days during several weeks. After this period, productivity decreases and the female snail regains strength. The species, temperature and availability of food are the main factors in the egg production. Read more about the life cycle of apple snails http://applesnail.net/content/ecology.php#lifecycle (which also has photos of snail breeding). (END SNIP) Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Gail Sent: Tuesday, July 28, 2009 11:03 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Snail behaviors So it does appear to be a mating ritual going on between my two mystery snails, and I have looked into applesnail.net for information, however there is no timeline given for the Female snail laying her clutch of eggs. So, Does anyone know how long before my female will lay her eggs? It's been a few days. Do they wait months, or what? Any info would be helpful! thanks, Gail ------------------------------------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the home page. Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com to receive the digest, which includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com for the No E-Mail option where you will still be able to read messages on the group and post replies. Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com to receive individual e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 42366	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 7/28/2009
Subject: Re: Snail behaviors

Now hopefully that means that my snails won't lay any eggs, my tank is full of babies already, LOL. I'm not sure if the guy I got snails from on aquabid sent a bunch of tiny ones in the bags and I missed them somehow or if a snail laid a clutch of eggs shortly after getting here (but they all seemed under 1 inch to me, which is what is considered breeding size on applesnail.net). Either way I have at least 20 or so babies probably more crawling around the tank and duckweed, I'm hoping they turn out to be dark purple as so far they look to be turning out magenta. Oh which reminds me, how long does it take for their color to come into their shells? I have noticed how they go from the "slug like" stage, to the true snail stage within a short time frame too, which was neat to watch. I had babies within a week of getting my other snails though, so if they laid eggs they hatched quickly. I may be selling purple snails to the group soon, LOL. (just kidding so far, not even sure what color they are just yet), one small one is just now starting to show color on his/her shell and looks to be magenta, the others are all really small still (1/4 of an inch perhaps in size, BB size I guess ;) Amber Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > > > http://applesnail.net/content/care.php > <http://applesnail.net/content/care.php> includes a short section on > Reproduction which says that a female can store sperm for months. Here's > more from that section: > > There are a few things to be considered to successfully breed apple > snails: > - Since apple snails are gonochoristic (separated sexes), a male and a > female snail are needed(obvious). > - Apple snails reproduce when the temperature rises in combination with > abundance of food available. > - For those species that lay their eggs above the water, one should > provide > enough air space (+15cm/6 inch). > - Some species might need an aestivation period in the mud before they > breed > successfully (does not apply to the most common species). > > It is also important to mention that female apple snails can store > sperm for > months, so even the eggs of a single snail can be fertile. With no male > snail present, female apple snails occasionally produce infertile eggs. > Obviously, these do no hatch. Last but not least: most species lay their > eggs above the water and they should stay there while the eggs of aquatic > layers should stay below the surface. > At the right circumstances an apple snail can produce one clutch of eggs > every 4-7 days during several weeks. After this period, productivity > decreases and the female snail regains strength. The species, temperature > and availability of food are the main factors in the egg production. > Read more about the life cycle of apple snails > http://applesnail.net/content/ecology.php#lifecycle > <http://applesnail.net/content/ecology.php#lifecycle> (which also has > photos > of snail breeding). > (END SNIP) > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right > side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On > Behalf Of Gail > Sent: Tuesday, July 28, 2009 11:03 AM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Snail behaviors > > So it does appear to be a mating ritual going on between my two mystery > snails, and I have looked into applesnail.net for information, however > there > is no timeline given for the Female snail laying her clutch of eggs. > So, Does anyone know how long before my female will lay her eggs? It's > been > a few days. Do they wait months, or what? > > Any info would be helpful! > thanks, > Gail > > ------------------------------------ > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. > ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> > PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to > the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the > SUBJECT > LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- > <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. > > If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of unsubscribing, you > can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the > home page. > > Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:aquaticlife-digest%40yahoogroups.com> to receive the digest, which > includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email > > Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:aquaticlife-nomail%40yahoogroups.com> for the No E-Mail option > where > you will still be able to read messages on the group and post replies. > > Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:aquaticlife-normal%40yahoogroups.com> to receive individual > e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 42367	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 7/28/2009
Subject: Re: Snail behaviors

Are you sure they are Mystery snails? Or could you have gotten a pond snail in on one of your plants? Did you ever see an egg clutch? Certainly one of the fertilized females could have laid a clutch right after going into your tank and then those would have hatched but you should have still seen the clutch. Look around under the rim of the tank and behind the waterfall lip of any HOB's. Like that SNIP said.... if the water is a warmer and there is an abundance of food, they will lay lots of eggs. And with your algae growth, that might be considered an abundance of food. ;-) Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Amber Berglund Sent: Tuesday, July 28, 2009 12:24 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: Snail behaviors Now hopefully that means that my snails won't lay any eggs, my tank is full of babies already, LOL. I'm not sure if the guy I got snails from on aquabid sent a bunch of tiny ones in the bags and I missed them somehow or if a snail laid a clutch of eggs shortly after getting here (but they all seemed under 1 inch to me, which is what is considered breeding size on applesnail.net). Either way I have at least 20 or so babies probably more crawling around the tank and duckweed, I'm hoping they turn out to be dark purple as so far they look to be turning out magenta. Oh which reminds me, how long does it take for their color to come into their shells? I have noticed how they go from the "slug like" stage, to the true snail stage within a short time frame too, which was neat to watch. I had babies within a week of getting my other snails though, so if they laid eggs they hatched quickly. I may be selling purple snails to the group soon, LOL. (just kidding so far, not even sure what color they are just yet), one small one is just now starting to show color on his/her shell and looks to be magenta, the others are all really small still (1/4 of an inch perhaps in size, BB size I guess ;) Amber Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > > > http://applesnail.net/content/care.php > <http://applesnail.net/content/care.php> includes a short section on > Reproduction which says that a female can store sperm for months. > Here's more from that section: > > There are a few things to be considered to successfully breed apple > snails: > - Since apple snails are gonochoristic (separated sexes), a male and a > female snail are needed(obvious). > - Apple snails reproduce when the temperature rises in combination > with abundance of food available. > - For those species that lay their eggs above the water, one should > provide enough air space (+15cm/6 inch). > - Some species might need an aestivation period in the mud before they > breed successfully (does not apply to the most common species). > > It is also important to mention that female apple snails can store > sperm for months, so even the eggs of a single snail can be fertile. > With no male snail present, female apple snails occasionally produce > infertile eggs. > Obviously, these do no hatch. Last but not least: most species lay > their eggs above the water and they should stay there while the eggs > of aquatic layers should stay below the surface. > At the right circumstances an apple snail can produce one clutch of > eggs every 4-7 days during several weeks. After this period, > productivity decreases and the female snail regains strength. The > species, temperature and availability of food are the main factors in the egg production. > Read more about the life cycle of apple snails > http://applesnail.net/content/ecology.php#lifecycle > <http://applesnail.net/content/ecology.php#lifecycle> (which also has > photos of snail breeding). > (END SNIP) > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> (Links to any articles referenced in > above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels > and also under Archives by Year, Month) > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On Behalf Of Gail > Sent: Tuesday, July 28, 2009 11:03 AM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Snail behaviors > > So it does appear to be a mating ritual going on between my two > mystery snails, and I have looked into applesnail.net for information, > however there is no timeline given for the Female snail laying her > clutch of eggs. > So, Does anyone know how long before my female will lay her eggs? It's > been a few days. Do they wait months, or what? > > Any info would be helpful! > thanks, > Gail

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 42368	From: pam andress	Date: 7/28/2009
Subject: Re: Snail behaviors

Plus even if one laid eggs right away, they take about 2 weeks to hatch. Pam To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com From: GoldLenny@... Date: Tue, 28 Jul 2009 13:28:57 -0500 Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: Snail behaviors Are you sure they are Mystery snails? Or could you have gotten a pond snail in on one of your plants? Did you ever see an egg clutch? Certainly one of the fertilized females could have laid a clutch right after going into your tank and then those would have hatched but you should have still seen the clutch. Look around under the rim of the tank and behind the waterfall lip of any HOB's. Like that SNIP said.... if the water is a warmer and there is an abundance of food, they will lay lots of eggs. And with your algae growth, that might be considered an abundance of food. ;-) Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Amber Berglund Sent: Tuesday, July 28, 2009 12:24 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: Snail behaviors Now hopefully that means that my snails won't lay any eggs, my tank is full of babies already, LOL. I'm not sure if the guy I got snails from on aquabid sent a bunch of tiny ones in the bags and I missed them somehow or if a snail laid a clutch of eggs shortly after getting here (but they all seemed under 1 inch to me, which is what is considered breeding size on applesnail.net). Either way I have at least 20 or so babies probably more crawling around the tank and duckweed, I'm hoping they turn out to be dark purple as so far they look to be turning out magenta. Oh which reminds me, how long does it take for their color to come into their shells? I have noticed how they go from the "slug like" stage, to the true snail stage within a short time frame too, which was neat to watch. I had babies within a week of getting my other snails though, so if they laid eggs they hatched quickly. I may be selling purple snails to the group soon, LOL. (just kidding so far, not even sure what color they are just yet), one small one is just now starting to show color on his/her shell and looks to be magenta, the others are all really small still (1/4 of an inch perhaps in size, BB size I guess ;) Amber Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > > > http://applesnail.net/content/care.php > <http://applesnail.net/content/care.php> includes a short section on > Reproduction which says that a female can store sperm for months. > Here's more from that section: > > There are a few things to be considered to successfully breed apple > snails: > - Since apple snails are gonochoristic (separated sexes), a male and a > female snail are needed(obvious). > - Apple snails reproduce when the temperature rises in combination > with abundance of food available. > - For those species that lay their eggs above the water, one should > provide enough air space (+15cm/6 inch). > - Some species might need an aestivation period in the mud before they > breed successfully (does not apply to the most common species). > > It is also important to mention that female apple snails can store > sperm for months, so even the eggs of a single snail can be fertile. > With no male snail present, female apple snails occasionally produce > infertile eggs. > Obviously, these do no hatch. Last but not least: most species lay > their eggs above the water and they should stay there while the eggs > of aquatic layers should stay below the surface. > At the right circumstances an apple snail can produce one clutch of > eggs every 4-7 days during several weeks. After this period, > productivity decreases and the female snail regains strength. The > species, temperature and availability of food are the main factors in the egg production. > Read more about the life cycle of apple snails > http://applesnail.net/content/ecology.php#lifecycle > <http://applesnail.net/content/ecology.php#lifecycle> (which also has > photos of snail breeding). > (END SNIP) > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> (Links to any articles referenced in > above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels > and also under Archives by Year, Month) > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On Behalf Of Gail > Sent: Tuesday, July 28, 2009 11:03 AM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Snail behaviors > > So it does appear to be a mating ritual going on between my two > mystery snails, and I have looked into applesnail.net for information, > however there is no timeline given for the Female snail laying her > clutch of eggs. > So, Does anyone know how long before my female will lay her eggs? It's > been a few days. Do they wait months, or what? > > Any info would be helpful! > thanks, > Gail [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 42369	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 7/28/2009
Subject: Re: Snail behaviors

They look like mystery snail babies like pictured on applesnail.net so I must have gotten babies from the aquabid guy or they laid them right after being put in the tank the babies can't be older than a week but I work so much that I can't really remember when they appeared in the tank. I haven't gotten any plants in weeks though. I have a few MTS in the tank but I don't think the mystery snails leave much food for them as they haven't populated the tank like they did in my 125 gal. I remember finding babies the day that pam sent me fish what day was that again pam? Lol they were tiny and looked newly hatched. Amber On Jul 28, 2009 10:30 AM, "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@...> wrote: Are you sure they are Mystery snails? Or could you have gotten a pond snail in on one of your plants? Did you ever see an egg clutch? Certainly one of the fertilized females could have laid a clutch right after going into your tank and then those would have hatched but you should have still seen the clutch. Look around under the rim of the tank and behind the waterfall lip of any HOB's. Like that SNIP said.... if the water is a warmer and there is an abundance of food, they will lay lots of eggs. And with your algae growth, that might be considered an abundance of food. ;-) Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under ... From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Amber Berglund Sent: Tuesday, July 28, 2009 12:24 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: Snail behaviors Now hopefully that means that my snails won't lay an... [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 42370	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 7/28/2009
Subject: Re: Snail behaviors

Hasn't she had some of the Mystery Snails for two weeks? If not, then it's definitely some other snail that is breeding like crazy... ahhhh... maybe another "Adventure of Amber's Tanks" episode in the works. ;-) Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of pam andress Sent: Tuesday, July 28, 2009 2:07 PM To: aquaticlife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: Snail behaviors Plus even if one laid eggs right away, they take about 2 weeks to hatch. Pam To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com From: GoldLenny@... Date: Tue, 28 Jul 2009 13:28:57 -0500 Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: Snail behaviors Are you sure they are Mystery snails? Or could you have gotten a pond snail in on one of your plants? Did you ever see an egg clutch? Certainly one of the fertilized females could have laid a clutch right after going into your tank and then those would have hatched but you should have still seen the clutch. Look around under the rim of the tank and behind the waterfall lip of any HOB's. Like that SNIP said.... if the water is a warmer and there is an abundance of food, they will lay lots of eggs. And with your algae growth, that might be considered an abundance of food. ;-) Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Amber Berglund Sent: Tuesday, July 28, 2009 12:24 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: Snail behaviors Now hopefully that means that my snails won't lay any eggs, my tank is full of babies already, LOL. I'm not sure if the guy I got snails from on aquabid sent a bunch of tiny ones in the bags and I missed them somehow or if a snail laid a clutch of eggs shortly after getting here (but they all seemed under 1 inch to me, which is what is considered breeding size on applesnail.net). Either way I have at least 20 or so babies probably more crawling around the tank and duckweed, I'm hoping they turn out to be dark purple as so far they look to be turning out magenta. Oh which reminds me, how long does it take for their color to come into their shells? I have noticed how they go from the "slug like" stage, to the true snail stage within a short time frame too, which was neat to watch. I had babies within a week of getting my other snails though, so if they laid eggs they hatched quickly. I may be selling purple snails to the group soon, LOL. (just kidding so far, not even sure what color they are just yet), one small one is just now starting to show color on his/her shell and looks to be magenta, the others are all really small still (1/4 of an inch perhaps in size, BB size I guess ;) Amber Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > > > http://applesnail.net/content/care.php > <http://applesnail.net/content/care.php> includes a short section on > Reproduction which says that a female can store sperm for months. > Here's more from that section: > > There are a few things to be considered to successfully breed apple > snails: > - Since apple snails are gonochoristic (separated sexes), a male and a > female snail are needed(obvious). > - Apple snails reproduce when the temperature rises in combination > with abundance of food available. > - For those species that lay their eggs above the water, one should > provide enough air space (+15cm/6 inch). > - Some species might need an aestivation period in the mud before they > breed successfully (does not apply to the most common species). > > It is also important to mention that female apple snails can store > sperm for months, so even the eggs of a single snail can be fertile. > With no male snail present, female apple snails occasionally produce > infertile eggs. > Obviously, these do no hatch. Last but not least: most species lay > their eggs above the water and they should stay there while the eggs > of aquatic layers should stay below the surface. > At the right circumstances an apple snail can produce one clutch of > eggs every 4-7 days during several weeks. After this period, > productivity decreases and the female snail regains strength. The > species, temperature and availability of food are the main factors in > the egg production. > Read more about the life cycle of apple snails > http://applesnail.net/content/ecology.php#lifecycle > <http://applesnail.net/content/ecology.php#lifecycle> (which also has > photos of snail breeding). > (END SNIP) > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> (Links to any articles referenced in > above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels > and also under Archives by Year, Month) > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On Behalf Of Gail > Sent: Tuesday, July 28, 2009 11:03 AM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Snail behaviors > > So it does appear to be a mating ritual going on between my two > mystery snails, and I have looked into applesnail.net for information, > however there is no timeline given for the Female snail laying her > clutch of eggs. > So, Does anyone know how long before my female will lay her eggs? It's > been a few days. Do they wait months, or what? > > Any info would be helpful! > thanks, > Gail

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 42371	From: Menagerie_Manager	Date: 7/28/2009
Subject: Re: 65G tank setup in SE Michigan spotted on eBay

The tank went for $81, not a bad deal considering what all came with it. So did anyone on here get it? DebR and the Three Goldfish (CB, Lucille, and Raven) -----Original Message----- From: Menagerie_Manager In case anyone is looking for a 65G tank with cabinet and supplies. This one is pick up only in Waterford. It's currently going for $40. http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=250471851246&fromMakeTrac k=true&ssPageName=VIP:watchlink:top:en OR http://preview.tinyurl.com/nv2edz

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 42372	From: pam andress	Date: 7/28/2009
Subject: Re: Snail behaviors

H *** if I know. I don't remember what I did yesterday. Pam To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com From: arberglund@... Date: Tue, 28 Jul 2009 12:31:07 -0800 Subject: Re: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: Snail behaviors They look like mystery snail babies like pictured on applesnail.net so I must have gotten babies from the aquabid guy or they laid them right after being put in the tank the babies can't be older than a week but I work so much that I can't really remember when they appeared in the tank. I haven't gotten any plants in weeks though. I have a few MTS in the tank but I don't think the mystery snails leave much food for them as they haven't populated the tank like they did in my 125 gal. I remember finding babies the day that pam sent me fish what day was that again pam? Lol they were tiny and looked newly hatched. Amber . [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 42373	From: bill 1433	Date: 7/28/2009
Subject: Re: Snail behaviors

Thanks for sharing Pam, and welcome to my group! I've had these same thoughts every day of my life. An immediate clue? If you walk into a room and can't remember what you went in there for!-------your on the road girl! Welcome!   Bill         --- On Tue, 7/28/09, pam andress <pamandress23@...> wrote: From: pam andress <pamandress23@...> Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: Snail behaviors To: aquaticlife@yahoogroups.com Date: Tuesday, July 28, 2009, 5:54 PM H *** if I know. I don't remember what I did yesterday. Pam To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com From: arberglund@... Date: Tue, 28 Jul 2009 12:31:07 -0800 Subject: Re: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: Snail behaviors   They look like mystery snail babies like pictured on applesnail.net so I must have gotten babies from the aquabid guy or they laid them right after being put in the tank the babies can't be older than a week but I work so much that I can't really remember when they appeared in the tank. I haven't gotten any plants in weeks though. I have a few MTS in the tank but I don't think the mystery snails leave much food for them as they haven't populated the tank like they did in my 125 gal. I remember finding babies the day that pam sent me fish what day was that again pam? Lol they were tiny and looked newly hatched. Amber .. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] ------------------------------------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the home page.  Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com to receive the digest, which includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com for the No E-Mail option where you will still be able to read messages on the group and post replies. Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com to receive individual e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 42374	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 7/28/2009
Subject: Re: Snail behaviors

I feel that way every day, and I'm only 30... I don't want to know what 40 is going to feel like at this rate ;) LOL. I suppose I could look at fed ex and see when the package shipped from you, LOL. Okay I got the snails on July 9th, I got Pam's snails/fish on 7/14. So that's not enough time for the eggs to have hatched before I got Pam's box. My theory is that I was sent a bunch of babies, since they are definitely growing into mystery snails as they get older (at least a few have). Do you have any pics of week old mystery snails Pam? (or anyone out there, LOL). The ones on applesnail.net were very hard to see so I need something closer up to make sure they're baby mystery snails. If not I guess I'll have to start removing them (which is easy to do as most of they hang out on the duckweed, could just scoop them out with it ;) LOL. Okay after looking over applesnail.net the babies look like they are part of the genus "Lanistes", are these pests? LOL Amber bill 1433 wrote: > > > > Thanks for sharing Pam, and welcome to my group! > I've had these same thoughts every day of my life. > > An immediate clue? > If you walk into a room and can't remember what you > went in there for!-------your on the road girl! Welcome! > > Bill > > > > > --- On Tue, 7/28/09, pam andress <pamandress23@... > <mailto:pamandress23%40hotmail.com>> wrote: > > From: pam andress <pamandress23@... > <mailto:pamandress23%40hotmail.com>> > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: Snail behaviors > To: aquaticlife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:aquaticlife%40yahoogroups.com> > Date: Tuesday, July 28, 2009, 5:54 PM > > H *** if I know. I don't remember what I did yesterday. > > Pam > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > From: arberglund@... <mailto:arberglund%40gmail.com> > Date: Tue, 28 Jul 2009 12:31:07 -0800 > Subject: Re: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: Snail behaviors > > > > They look like mystery snail babies like pictured on applesnail.net so I > must have gotten babies from the aquabid guy or they laid them right after > being put in the tank the babies can't be older than a week but I work so > much that I can't really remember when they appeared in the tank. I > haven't > gotten any plants in weeks though. I have a few MTS in the tank but I > don't > think the mystery snails leave much food for them as they haven't > populated > the tank like they did in my 125 gal. I remember finding babies the > day that > pam sent me fish what day was that again pam? Lol they were tiny and > looked > newly hatched. > > Amber > > .. > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > ------------------------------------ > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. > ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> > PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT > important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message > MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- > <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. > > If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of unsubscribing, > you can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My > Membership" on the home page. > > Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:aquaticlife-digest%40yahoogroups.com> to receive the digest, > which includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email > > Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:aquaticlife-nomail%40yahoogroups.com> for the No E-Mail option > where you will still be able to read messages on the group and post > replies. > > Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:aquaticlife-normal%40yahoogroups.com> to receive individual > e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 42375	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 7/28/2009
Subject: Re: Snail behaviors

On a side note, has anyone actually watched their mystery snails (brig's) eat algae, on applesnail.net they say nothing about eating algae but I have pictures of mine eating hair algae at least, can't tell if they make a difference on the algae growth on the glass as it regrows so fast with high lighting anyways, but the pleco's like the algae ;) Oh and I've recently noticed two of my large purple brig's mating, so I might have MORE babies soon, LOL. Will have to watch for an egg clutch now, I bet they lay it behind the HOB ;) Amber bill 1433 wrote: > > > > Thanks for sharing Pam, and welcome to my group! > I've had these same thoughts every day of my life. > > An immediate clue? > If you walk into a room and can't remember what you > went in there for!-------your on the road girl! Welcome! > > Bill > > > > > --- On Tue, 7/28/09, pam andress <pamandress23@... > <mailto:pamandress23%40hotmail.com>> wrote: > > From: pam andress <pamandress23@... > <mailto:pamandress23%40hotmail.com>> > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: Snail behaviors > To: aquaticlife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:aquaticlife%40yahoogroups.com> > Date: Tuesday, July 28, 2009, 5:54 PM > > H *** if I know. I don't remember what I did yesterday. > > Pam > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > From: arberglund@... <mailto:arberglund%40gmail.com> > Date: Tue, 28 Jul 2009 12:31:07 -0800 > Subject: Re: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: Snail behaviors > > > > They look like mystery snail babies like pictured on applesnail.net so I > must have gotten babies from the aquabid guy or they laid them right after > being put in the tank the babies can't be older than a week but I work so > much that I can't really remember when they appeared in the tank. I > haven't > gotten any plants in weeks though. I have a few MTS in the tank but I > don't > think the mystery snails leave much food for them as they haven't > populated > the tank like they did in my 125 gal. I remember finding babies the > day that > pam sent me fish what day was that again pam? Lol they were tiny and > looked > newly hatched. > > Amber > > .. > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > ------------------------------------ > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. > ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> > PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT > important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message > MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- > <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. > > If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of unsubscribing, > you can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My > Membership" on the home page. > > Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:aquaticlife-digest%40yahoogroups.com> to receive the digest, > which includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email > > Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:aquaticlife-nomail%40yahoogroups.com> for the No E-Mail option > where you will still be able to read messages on the group and post > replies. > > Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:aquaticlife-normal%40yahoogroups.com> to receive individual > e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 42376	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 7/28/2009
Subject: Re: Snail behaviors

Okay, I'm confused, I somehow have both baby brig's (definitely shaped like brigs at least, they could be another type of apple snail I suppose), and I have some type of baby Lanistes (whorl's point to the left rather than the right like most apple snails). The Lanistes does not have a lot of info on the 21 species, but I think I have lanistes lybicus possibly, unless baby Brig's can change their body shape when they're young ;) LOL Which I doubt ;) Amber bill 1433 wrote: > > > > Thanks for sharing Pam, and welcome to my group! > I've had these same thoughts every day of my life. > > An immediate clue? > If you walk into a room and can't remember what you > went in there for!-------your on the road girl! Welcome! > > Bill > > > > > --- On Tue, 7/28/09, pam andress <pamandress23@... > <mailto:pamandress23%40hotmail.com>> wrote: > > From: pam andress <pamandress23@... > <mailto:pamandress23%40hotmail.com>> > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: Snail behaviors > To: aquaticlife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:aquaticlife%40yahoogroups.com> > Date: Tuesday, July 28, 2009, 5:54 PM > > H *** if I know. I don't remember what I did yesterday. > > Pam > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > From: arberglund@... <mailto:arberglund%40gmail.com> > Date: Tue, 28 Jul 2009 12:31:07 -0800 > Subject: Re: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: Snail behaviors > > > > They look like mystery snail babies like pictured on applesnail.net so I > must have gotten babies from the aquabid guy or they laid them right after > being put in the tank the babies can't be older than a week but I work so > much that I can't really remember when they appeared in the tank. I > haven't > gotten any plants in weeks though. I have a few MTS in the tank but I > don't > think the mystery snails leave much food for them as they haven't > populated > the tank like they did in my 125 gal. I remember finding babies the > day that > pam sent me fish what day was that again pam? Lol they were tiny and > looked > newly hatched. > > Amber > > .. > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > ------------------------------------ > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. > ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> > PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT > important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message > MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- > <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. > > If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of unsubscribing, > you can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My > Membership" on the home page. > > Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:aquaticlife-digest%40yahoogroups.com> to receive the digest, > which includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email > > Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:aquaticlife-nomail%40yahoogroups.com> for the No E-Mail option > where you will still be able to read messages on the group and post > replies. > > Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:aquaticlife-normal%40yahoogroups.com> to receive individual > e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 42377	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 7/28/2009
Subject: Re: Snail behaviors

I think the small snails that "look like brig's" are a bad snail, I'm only guessing because they are already mating and only about 1/4 of an inch wide, which worries me ;) LOL. I think I am going to start removing them now before something bad happens. They look like Back <javascript:window.history.go(-1)>/Marisa cornuarietis (listed in the other snails section on applesnail.net) and they are pests... /So I think to be safe I'm going to scoop them all out tonight after work. I think I didn't rinse the guppy grass I got well enough, I'm pretty sure that's where I got these snails. Amber Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > > > Hasn't she had some of the Mystery Snails for two weeks? If not, then it's > definitely some other snail that is breeding like crazy... ahhhh... maybe > another "Adventure of Amber's Tanks" episode in the works. ;-) > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right > side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On > Behalf Of pam andress > Sent: Tuesday, July 28, 2009 2:07 PM > To: aquaticlife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:aquaticlife%40yahoogroups.com> > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: Snail behaviors > > Plus even if one laid eggs right away, they take about 2 weeks to hatch. > > Pam > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > From: GoldLenny@... <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com> > Date: Tue, 28 Jul 2009 13:28:57 -0500 > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: Snail behaviors > > Are you sure they are Mystery snails? Or could you have gotten a pond > snail > in on one of your plants? Did you ever see an egg clutch? Certainly one of > the fertilized females could have laid a clutch right after going into > your > tank and then those would have hatched but you should have still seen the > clutch. Look around under the rim of the tank and behind the waterfall lip > of any HOB's. > > Like that SNIP said.... if the water is a warmer and there is an abundance > of food, they will lay lots of eggs. And with your algae growth, that > might > be considered an abundance of food. ;-) > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> (Links to any articles referenced > in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under > Labels and > also under Archives by Year, Month) > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On > Behalf Of Amber Berglund > Sent: Tuesday, July 28, 2009 12:24 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: Snail behaviors > > Now hopefully that means that my snails won't lay any eggs, my tank is > full > of babies already, LOL. I'm not sure if the guy I got snails from on > aquabid > sent a bunch of tiny ones in the bags and I missed them somehow or if a > snail laid a clutch of eggs shortly after getting here (but they all > seemed > under 1 inch to me, which is what is considered breeding size on > applesnail.net). Either way I have at least 20 or so babies probably more > crawling around the tank and duckweed, I'm hoping they turn out to be dark > purple as so far they look to be turning out magenta. > Oh which reminds me, how long does it take for their color to come into > their shells? I have noticed how they go from the "slug like" stage, > to the > true snail stage within a short time frame too, which was neat to watch. > I had babies within a week of getting my other snails though, so if they > laid eggs they hatched quickly. > I may be selling purple snails to the group soon, LOL. (just kidding > so far, > not even sure what color they are just yet), one small one is just now > starting to show color on his/her shell and looks to be magenta, the > others > are all really small still (1/4 of an inch perhaps in size, BB size I > guess > ;) > > Amber > > Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > > > > > > http://applesnail.net/content/care.php > <http://applesnail.net/content/care.php> > > <http://applesnail.net/content/care.php > <http://applesnail.net/content/care.php>> includes a short section on > > Reproduction which says that a female can store sperm for months. > > Here's more from that section: > > > > There are a few things to be considered to successfully breed apple > > snails: > > - Since apple snails are gonochoristic (separated sexes), a male and a > > female snail are needed(obvious). > > - Apple snails reproduce when the temperature rises in combination > > with abundance of food available. > > - For those species that lay their eggs above the water, one should > > provide enough air space (+15cm/6 inch). > > - Some species might need an aestivation period in the mud before they > > breed successfully (does not apply to the most common species). > > > > It is also important to mention that female apple snails can store > > sperm for months, so even the eggs of a single snail can be fertile. > > With no male snail present, female apple snails occasionally produce > > infertile eggs. > > Obviously, these do no hatch. Last but not least: most species lay > > their eggs above the water and they should stay there while the eggs > > of aquatic layers should stay below the surface. > > At the right circumstances an apple snail can produce one clutch of > > eggs every 4-7 days during several weeks. After this period, > > productivity decreases and the female snail regains strength. The > > species, temperature and availability of food are the main factors in > > the > egg production. > > Read more about the life cycle of apple snails > > http://applesnail.net/content/ecology.php#lifecycle > <http://applesnail.net/content/ecology.php#lifecycle> > > <http://applesnail.net/content/ecology.php#lifecycle > <http://applesnail.net/content/ecology.php#lifecycle>> (which also has > > photos of snail breeding). > > (END SNIP) > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>> > (Links to any articles referenced in > > above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels > > and also under Archives by Year, Month) > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On Behalf Of Gail > > Sent: Tuesday, July 28, 2009 11:03 AM > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Snail behaviors > > > > So it does appear to be a mating ritual going on between my two > > mystery snails, and I have looked into applesnail.net for information, > > however there is no timeline given for the Female snail laying her > > clutch of eggs. > > So, Does anyone know how long before my female will lay her eggs? It's > > been a few days. Do they wait months, or what? > > > > Any info would be helpful! > > thanks, > > Gail > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 42378	From: Gail	Date: 7/28/2009
Subject: Re: Snail behaviors

I am quite certain they are mystery snails. I purchased them, they were not hitch hikers with my plants. One is gold, and the other black. I did read the article you had referenced about the female holding her eggs for months. I guess I will just have to wait and see what she does. I think Amber just needs to be aware of her snails and see if they do the "naughty snail dance" ;) However, I have had my snails for a while in a much bigger tank - they never took notice of each other until I moved them to a smaller tank. When they were in the 55 gallon, I think they were often harassed by the CAE (Chinese algae eater) he would flip them and roll them along the bottom, like they were a toy. I think they are in a comfort zone now, with no one bothering them and plenty of algae. I will check under the water fall of the filtration system to see if there is any presents. All I do know is that the male snail is still active, however the female, she doesn't seem as active. often she looks like she's swollen with her trap door open - sitting on the bottom of the tank. Every now and again I catch her on the glass. thanks, Gail

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 42379	From: Gwydryn@aol.com	Date: 7/28/2009
Subject: Re: Snail behaviors

In a message dated 7/28/2009 5:46:31 P.M. Central Daylight Time, arberglund@... writes: Okay, I'm confused, I somehow have both baby brig's (definitely shaped like brigs at least, they could be another type of apple snail I suppose), and I have some type of baby Lanistes (whorl's point to the left rather than the right like most apple snails). The Lanistes does not have a lot of info on the 21 species, but I think I have lanistes lybicus possibly, unless baby Brig's can change their body shape when they're young ;) LOL Which I doubt ;) Amber well Amber, keep an eye on them , you might have got bonus snails with you snail order and you might have interested buyers in the future. <wink> Enid "Life is not about waiting for the storms to pass...it's about learning how to dance in the rain." **************A Good Credit Score is 700 or Above. See yours in just 2 easy steps! (http://pr.atwola.com/promoclk/100126575x1222377107x1201454434/aol?redir=http://www.freecreditreport.com/pm/default.aspx?sc=668072&hmpgID=115&bcd =JulystepsfooterNO115) [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 42380	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 7/28/2009
Subject: Re: Snail behaviors

The blonde leading the blonde. LOL Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of pam andress Sent: Tuesday, July 28, 2009 4:54 PM To: aquaticlife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: Snail behaviors H *** if I know. I don't remember what I did yesterday. Pam To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com From: arberglund@... Date: Tue, 28 Jul 2009 12:31:07 -0800 Subject: Re: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: Snail behaviors They look like mystery snail babies like pictured on applesnail.net so I must have gotten babies from the aquabid guy or they laid them right after being put in the tank the babies can't be older than a week but I work so much that I can't really remember when they appeared in the tank. I haven't gotten any plants in weeks though. I have a few MTS in the tank but I don't think the mystery snails leave much food for them as they haven't populated the tank like they did in my 125 gal. I remember finding babies the day that pam sent me fish what day was that again pam? Lol they were tiny and looked newly hatched. Amber . [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] ------------------------------------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. 74/`7.88.><((((:>.74/`7.88.74/`7.8><((((:> 8.74/`7.8. , .74/`7..><((((:> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <:((((><.74/`7.88.74/`7.8<:((((><8.74/`7.8. , .74/`7..<:((((><74/`7.88. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the home page. Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com to receive the digest, which includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com for the No E-Mail option where you will still be able to read messages on the group and post replies. Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com to receive individual e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 42381	From: pam andress	Date: 7/28/2009
Subject: Re: Snail behaviors

Thanks Bill. I know it is a sign of age, but I also have fibromylagia and it is a side effect of it too. I hate it when I do what you said by the way. :) Pam To: AquaticLife@com From: warrenprint@... Date: Tue, 28 Jul 2009 15:02:41 -0700 Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: Snail behaviors Thanks for sharing Pam, and welcome to my group! I've had these same thoughts every day of my life. An immediate clue? If you walk into a room and can't remember what you went in there for!-------your on the road girl! Welcome! Bill --- On Tue, 7/28/09, pam andress <pamandress23@...> wrote: From: pam andress <pamandress23@...> Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: Snail behaviors To: aquaticlife@yahoogroups.com Date: Tuesday, July 28, 2009, 5:54 PM H *** if I know. I don't remember what I did yesterday. Pam To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com From: arberglund@... Date: Tue, 28 Jul 2009 12:31:07 -0800 Subject: Re: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: Snail behaviors They look like mystery snail babies like pictured on applesnail.net so I must have gotten babies from the aquabid guy or they laid them right after being put in the tank the babies can't be older than a week but I work so much that I can't really remember when they appeared in the tank. I haven't gotten any plants in weeks though. I have a few MTS in the tank but I don't think the mystery snails leave much food for them as they haven't populated the tank like they did in my 125 gal. I remember finding babies the day that pam sent me fish what day was that again pam? Lol they were tiny and looked newly hatched. Amber .. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] ------------------------------------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the home page. Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com to receive the digest, which includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com for the No E-Mail option where you will still be able to read messages on the group and post replies. Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com to receive individual e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 42382	From: pam andress	Date: 7/28/2009
Subject: Re: Snail behaviors

Do you sew? Have you seen straight pins with the little balls on the end of them? Thats about the size of the babies at a week old. When they first hatch, they are the size of the mark of a pen if you set it on a piece of paper. Teeny tiny. Pam To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com From: arberglund@... Date: Tue, 28 Jul 2009 14:24:33 -0800 Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: Snail behaviors I feel that way every day, and I'm only 30... I don't want to know what 40 is going to feel like at this rate ;) LOL. I suppose I could look at fed ex and see when the package shipped from you, LOL. Okay I got the snails on July 9th, I got Pam's snails/fish on 7/14. So that's not enough time for the eggs to have hatched before I got Pam's box. My theory is that I was sent a bunch of babies, since they are definitely growing into mystery snails as they get older (at least a few have). Do you have any pics of week old mystery snails Pam? (or anyone out there, LOL). The ones on applesnail.net were very hard to see so I need something closer up to make sure they're baby mystery snails. If not I guess I'll have to start removing them (which is easy to do as most of they hang out on the duckweed, could just scoop them out with it ;) LOL. Okay after looking over applesnail.net the babies look like they are part of the genus "Lanistes", are these pests? LOL Amber bill 1433 wrote: > > > > Thanks for sharing Pam, and welcome to my group! > I've had these same thoughts every day of my life. > > An immediate clue? > If you walk into a room and can't remember what you > went in there for!-------your on the road girl! Welcome! > > Bill > > > > > --- On Tue, 7/28/09, pam andress <pamandress23@... > <mailto:pamandress23%40hotmail.com>> wrote: > > From: pam andress <pamandress23@... > <mailto:pamandress23%40hotmail.com>> > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: Snail behaviors > To: aquaticlife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:aquaticlife%40yahoogroups.com> > Date: Tuesday, July 28, 2009, 5:54 PM > > H *** if I know. I don't remember what I did yesterday. > > Pam > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > From: arberglund@... <mailto:arberglund%40gmail.com> > Date: Tue, 28 Jul 2009 12:31:07 -0800 > Subject: Re: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: Snail behaviors > > > > They look like mystery snail babies like pictured on applesnail.net so I > must have gotten babies from the aquabid guy or they laid them right after > being put in the tank the babies can't be older than a week but I work so > much that I can't really remember when they appeared in the tank. I > haven't > gotten any plants in weeks though. I have a few MTS in the tank but I > don't > think the mystery snails leave much food for them as they haven't > populated > the tank like they did in my 125 gal. I remember finding babies the > day that > pam sent me fish what day was that again pam? Lol they were tiny and > looked > newly hatched. > > Amber > > .. > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > ------------------------------------ > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. > ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> > PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT > important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message > MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- > <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. > > If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of unsubscribing, > you can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My > Membership" on the home page. > > Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:aquaticlife-digest%40yahoogroups.com> to receive the digest, > which includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email > > Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:aquaticlife-nomail%40yahoogroups.com> for the No E-Mail option > where you will still be able to read messages on the group and post > replies. > > Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:aquaticlife-normal%40yahoogroups.com> to receive individual > e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 42383	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 7/28/2009
Subject: Re: Snail behaviors

Okay, I think they are definitely not Brig's (the unknown snail), I've been picking out the "pest snails" that I identified as so. I'm wondering if I should just start removing the other snails too, just to be safe. Any thoughts? Amber pam andress wrote: > > > > Do you sew? Have you seen straight pins with the little balls on the > end of them? Thats about the size of the babies at a week old. When > they first hatch, they are the size of the mark of a pen if you set it > on a piece of paper. Teeny tiny. > > Pam > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > From: arberglund@... <mailto:arberglund%40gmail.com> > Date: Tue, 28 Jul 2009 14:24:33 -0800 > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: Snail behaviors > > I feel that way every day, and I'm only 30... I don't want to know what > 40 is going to feel like at this rate ;) LOL. > I suppose I could look at fed ex and see when the package shipped from > you, LOL. > Okay I got the snails on July 9th, I got Pam's snails/fish on 7/14. So > that's not enough time for the eggs to have hatched before I got Pam's > box. My theory is that I was sent a bunch of babies, since they are > definitely growing into mystery snails as they get older (at least a few > have). > Do you have any pics of week old mystery snails Pam? (or anyone out > there, LOL). The ones on applesnail.net were very hard to see so I need > something closer up to make sure they're baby mystery snails. > If not I guess I'll have to start removing them (which is easy to do as > most of they hang out on the duckweed, could just scoop them out with it > ;) LOL. > Okay after looking over applesnail.net the babies look like they are > part of the genus "Lanistes", are these pests? LOL > > Amber > > bill 1433 wrote: > > > > > > > > Thanks for sharing Pam, and welcome to my group! > > I've had these same thoughts every day of my life. > > > > An immediate clue? > > If you walk into a room and can't remember what you > > went in there for!-------your on the road girl! Welcome! > > > > Bill > > > > > > > > > > --- On Tue, 7/28/09, pam andress <pamandress23@... > <mailto:pamandress23%40hotmail.com> > > <mailto:pamandress23%40hotmail.com>> wrote: > > > > From: pam andress <pamandress23@... > <mailto:pamandress23%40hotmail.com> > > <mailto:pamandress23%40hotmail.com>> > > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: Snail behaviors > > To: aquaticlife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:aquaticlife%40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:aquaticlife%40yahoogroups.com> > > Date: Tuesday, July 28, 2009, 5:54 PM > > > > H *** if I know. I don't remember what I did yesterday. > > > > Pam > > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > From: arberglund@... <mailto:arberglund%40gmail.com> > <mailto:arberglund%40gmail.com> > > Date: Tue, 28 Jul 2009 12:31:07 -0800 > > Subject: Re: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: Snail behaviors > > > > > > > > They look like mystery snail babies like pictured on applesnail.net so I > > must have gotten babies from the aquabid guy or they laid them right > after > > being put in the tank the babies can't be older than a week but I > work so > > much that I can't really remember when they appeared in the tank. I > > haven't > > gotten any plants in weeks though. I have a few MTS in the tank but I > > don't > > think the mystery snails leave much food for them as they haven't > > populated > > the tank like they did in my 125 gal. I remember finding babies the > > day that > > pam sent me fish what day was that again pam? Lol they were tiny and > > looked > > newly hatched. > > > > Amber > > > > .. > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > ------------------------------------ > > > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, > Thank You. > > ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> > > PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT > > important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message > > MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- > > <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. > > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. > > > > If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of unsubscribing, > > you can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My > > Membership" on the home page. > > > > Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:aquaticlife-digest%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:aquaticlife-digest%40yahoogroups.com> to receive the digest, > > which includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email > > > > Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:aquaticlife-nomail%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:aquaticlife-nomail%40yahoogroups.com> for the No E-Mail option > > where you will still be able to read messages on the group and post > > replies. > > > > Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:aquaticlife-normal%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:aquaticlife-normal%40yahoogroups.com> to receive individual > > e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 42384	From: pam andress	Date: 7/28/2009
Subject: Re: Snail behaviors

Sorry Lenny I'm not blonde and never have been. Brown hair all my life except the grey coming in more and more. :) Pam To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com From: GoldLenny@... Date: Tue, 28 Jul 2009 19:25:37 -0500 Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: Snail behaviors The blonde leading the blonde. LOL Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of pam andress Sent: Tuesday, July 28, 2009 4:54 PM To: aquaticlife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: Snail behaviors H *** if I know. I don't remember what I did yesterday. Pam To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com From: arberglund@... Date: Tue, 28 Jul 2009 12:31:07 -0800 Subject: Re: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: Snail behaviors They look like mystery snail babies like pictured on applesnail.net so I must have gotten babies from the aquabid guy or they laid them right after being put in the tank the babies can't be older than a week but I work so much that I can't really remember when they appeared in the tank. I haven't gotten any plants in weeks though. I have a few MTS in the tank but I don't think the mystery snails leave much food for them as they haven't populated the tank like they did in my 125 gal. I remember finding babies the day that pam sent me fish what day was that again pam? Lol they were tiny and looked newly hatched. Amber . [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] ------------------------------------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. 74/`7.88.><((((:>.74/`7.88.74/`7.8><((((:> 8.74/`7.8. , .74/`7..><((((:> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <:((((><.74/`7.88.74/`7.8<:((((><8.74/`7.8. , .74/`7..<:((((><74/`7.88. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the home page. Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com to receive the digest, which includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com for the No E-Mail option where you will still be able to read messages on the group and post replies. Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com to receive individual e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 42385	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 7/28/2009
Subject: Re: Snail behaviors

Pam, Just trying to hide the fact that you are turning platinum, are you? \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of pam andress Sent: Tuesday, July 28, 2009 10:16 PM To: aquaticlife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: Snail behaviors Sorry Lenny I'm not blonde and never have been. Brown hair all my life except the grey coming in more and more. :) Pam To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com From: GoldLenny@... Date: Tue, 28 Jul 2009 19:25:37 -0500 Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: Snail behaviors The blonde leading the blonde. LOL Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month)

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 42386	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 7/28/2009
Subject: Re: Snail behaviors

That's not gray, it's light brown. At least mine is! :-P Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of pam andress Sent: Tuesday, July 28, 2009 9:16 PM To: aquaticlife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: Snail behaviors Sorry Lenny I'm not blonde and never have been. Brown hair all my life except the grey coming in more and more. :) Pam To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com From: GoldLenny@... Date: Tue, 28 Jul 2009 19:25:37 -0500 Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: Snail behaviors The blonde leading the blonde. LOL Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of pam andress Sent: Tuesday, July 28, 2009 4:54 PM To: aquaticlife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: Snail behaviors H *** if I know. I don't remember what I did yesterday. Pam To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com From: arberglund@... Date: Tue, 28 Jul 2009 12:31:07 -0800 Subject: Re: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: Snail behaviors They look like mystery snail babies like pictured on applesnail.net so I must have gotten babies from the aquabid guy or they laid them right after being put in the tank the babies can't be older than a week but I work so much that I can't really remember when they appeared in the tank. I haven't gotten any plants in weeks though. I have a few MTS in the tank but I don't think the mystery snails leave much food for them as they haven't populated the tank like they did in my 125 gal. I remember finding babies the day that pam sent me fish what day was that again pam? Lol they were tiny and looked newly hatched. Amber .

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 42387	From: pam andress	Date: 7/28/2009
Subject: Re: Snail behaviors

Who's hiding it? Not me! I can't stand to dye my hair and I'm allergic to it. One of the problems with working with the solutions for many years. I became allergic to perms and hair dyes. I used to be a hair stylist. Pam To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com From: steve@... Date: Tue, 28 Jul 2009 23:12:22 -0400 Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: Snail behaviors Pam, Just trying to hide the fact that you are turning platinum, are you? \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of pam andress Sent: Tuesday, July 28, 2009 10:16 PM To: aquaticlife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: Snail behaviors Sorry Lenny I'm not blonde and never have been. Brown hair all my life except the grey coming in more and more. :) Pam To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com From: GoldLenny@... Date: Tue, 28 Jul 2009 19:25:37 -0500 Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: Snail behaviors The blonde leading the blonde. LOL Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 42388	From: pam andress	Date: 7/28/2009
Subject: Re: Snail behaviors

My hair is just past my shoulders and belive me it is grey coming in and can't be hidden. :( Especially in the temple areas. Pam To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com From: GoldLenny@... Date: Tue, 28 Jul 2009 22:20:25 -0500 Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: Snail behaviors That's not gray, it's light brown. At least mine is! :-P Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of pam andress Sent: Tuesday, July 28, 2009 9:16 PM To: aquaticlife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: Snail behaviors Sorry Lenny I'm not blonde and never have been. Brown hair all my life except the grey coming in more and more. :) Pam To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com From: GoldLenny@... Date: Tue, 28 Jul 2009 19:25:37 -0500 Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: Snail behaviors The blonde leading the blonde. LOL Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of pam andress Sent: Tuesday, July 28, 2009 4:54 PM To: aquaticlife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: Snail behaviors H *** if I know. I don't remember what I did yesterday. Pam To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com From: arberglund@... Date: Tue, 28 Jul 2009 12:31:07 -0800 Subject: Re: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: Snail behaviors They look like mystery snail babies like pictured on applesnail.net so I must have gotten babies from the aquabid guy or they laid them right after being put in the tank the babies can't be older than a week but I work so much that I can't really remember when they appeared in the tank. I haven't gotten any plants in weeks though. I have a few MTS in the tank but I don't think the mystery snails leave much food for them as they haven't populated the tank like they did in my 125 gal. I remember finding babies the day that pam sent me fish what day was that again pam? Lol they were tiny and looked newly hatched. Amber . [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 42389	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 7/28/2009
Subject: Re: Snail behaviors

Us men get to call that gray on the temples "Distinguished" looking. ;-) Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of pam andress Sent: Tuesday, July 28, 2009 10:46 PM To: aquaticlife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: Snail behaviors My hair is just past my shoulders and belive me it is grey coming in and can't be hidden. :( Especially in the temple areas. Pam To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com From: GoldLenny@... Date: Tue, 28 Jul 2009 22:20:25 -0500 Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: Snail behaviors That's not gray, it's light brown. At least mine is! :-P Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of pam andress Sent: Tuesday, July 28, 2009 9:16 PM To: aquaticlife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: Snail behaviors Sorry Lenny I'm not blonde and never have been. Brown hair all my life except the grey coming in more and more. :) Pam To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com From: GoldLenny@... Date: Tue, 28 Jul 2009 19:25:37 -0500 Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: Snail behaviors The blonde leading the blonde. LOL Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of pam andress Sent: Tuesday, July 28, 2009 4:54 PM To: aquaticlife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: Snail behaviors H *** if I know. I don't remember what I did yesterday. Pam To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com From: arberglund@... Date: Tue, 28 Jul 2009 12:31:07 -0800 Subject: Re: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: Snail behaviors They look like mystery snail babies like pictured on applesnail.net so I must have gotten babies from the aquabid guy or they laid them right after being put in the tank the babies can't be older than a week but I work so much that I can't really remember when they appeared in the tank. I haven't gotten any plants in weeks though. I have a few MTS in the tank but I don't think the mystery snails leave much food for them as they haven't populated the tank like they did in my 125 gal. I remember finding babies the day that pam sent me fish what day was that again pam? Lol they were tiny and looked newly hatched. Amber

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 42390	From: Lisa	Date: 7/29/2009
Subject: Proposed plan

Here is my idea. I am going to trade in my community fish, bar my albino bristlenose catfish. Leaving 22gallons of empty tank. I would like to have a single German blue ram. But are they compatible with bn catfish? Thanks Lisa

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 42391	From: bill 1433	Date: 7/29/2009
Subject: Re: Snail behaviors

No, No Pam!   You have it wrong!  Not to worry at all!  Just take it easy and relax.   Why?   The more you worry about it the worse it gets!  Easy is the key.   Bill --- On Tue, 7/28/09, pam andress <pamandress23@...> wrote: From: pam andress <pamandress23@...> Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: Snail behaviors To: aquaticlife@yahoogroups.com Date: Tuesday, July 28, 2009, 10:04 PM Thanks Bill. I know it is a sign of age, but I also have fibromylagia and it is a side effect of it too. I hate it when I do what you said by the way. :) Pam To: AquaticLife@com From: warrenprint@... Date: Tue, 28 Jul 2009 15:02:41 -0700 Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: Snail behaviors   Thanks for sharing Pam, and welcome to my group! I've had these same thoughts every day of my life. An immediate clue? If you walk into a room and can't remember what you went in there for!-------your on the road girl! Welcome! Bill --- On Tue, 7/28/09, pam andress <pamandress23@...> wrote: From: pam andress <pamandress23@...> Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: Snail behaviors To: aquaticlife@yahoogroups.com Date: Tuesday, July 28, 2009, 5:54 PM H *** if I know. I don't remember what I did yesterday. Pam To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com From: arberglund@... Date: Tue, 28 Jul 2009 12:31:07 -0800 Subject: Re: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: Snail behaviors   They look like mystery snail babies like pictured on applesnail.net so I must have gotten babies from the aquabid guy or they laid them right after being put in the tank the babies can't be older than a week but I work so much that I can't really remember when they appeared in the tank. I haven't gotten any plants in weeks though. I have a few MTS in the tank but I don't think the mystery snails leave much food for them as they haven't populated the tank like they did in my 125 gal. I remember finding babies the day that pam sent me fish what day was that again pam? Lol they were tiny and looked newly hatched. Amber ... [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] ------------------------------------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the home page.  Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com to receive the digest, which includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com for the No E-Mail option where you will still be able to read messages on the group and post replies. Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com to receive individual e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] ------------------------------------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the home page.  Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com to receive the digest, which includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com for the No E-Mail option where you will still be able to read messages on the group and post replies. Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com to receive individual e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 42392	From: bill 1433	Date: 7/29/2009
Subject: Re: Snail behaviors

Ya, And don't worry about that either! Why? I started worrying about it and now I have no hair! Bill --- On Tue, 7/28/09, pam andress <pamandress23@...> wrote: > From: pam andress <pamandress23@...> > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: Snail behaviors > To: aquaticlife@yahoogroups.com > Date: Tuesday, July 28, 2009, 10:15 PM > > Sorry Lenny I'm not blonde and never have been. Brown hair > all my life except the grey coming in more and more. :) > > > > Pam > > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > From: GoldLenny@... > Date: Tue, 28 Jul 2009 19:25:37 -0500 > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: Snail behaviors > >   > > > > The blonde leading the blonde. LOL > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed > on the right > side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives > by Year, Month) > > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] > On > Behalf Of pam andress > Sent: Tuesday, July 28, 2009 4:54 PM > To: aquaticlife@yahoogroups.com > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: Snail behaviors > > H *** if I know. I don't remember what I did yesterday. > > Pam > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > From: arberglund@... > Date: Tue, 28 Jul 2009 12:31:07 -0800 > Subject: Re: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: Snail behaviors > > They look like mystery snail babies like pictured on > applesnail.net so I > must have gotten babies from the aquabid guy or they laid > them right after > being put in the tank the babies can't be older than a week > but I work so > much that I can't really remember when they appeared in the > tank. I haven't > gotten any plants in weeks though. I have a few MTS in the > tank but I don't > think the mystery snails leave much food for them as they > haven't populated > the tank like they did in my 125 gal. I remember finding > babies the day that > pam sent me fish what day was that again pam? Lol they were > tiny and looked > newly hatched. > > Amber > > . > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > ------------------------------------ > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when > replying, Thank You. > 74/`7.88.><((((:>.74/`7.88.74/`7.8><((((:> > 8.74/`7.8. , .74/`7..><((((:> > PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is > NOT important to > the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original > message MODIFY the SUBJECT > LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- > <:((((><.74/`7.88.74/`7.8<:((((><8.74/`7.8. > , .74/`7..<:((((><74/`7.88. > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. > > If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of > unsubscribing, you > can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My > Membership" on the > home page. > > Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com > to receive the digest, which > includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email > > Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com > for the No E-Mail option where > you will still be able to read messages on the group and > post replies. > > Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com > to receive individual > e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > ------------------------------------ > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when > replying, Thank You. > ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> > ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> > PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is > NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of > the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new > subject (was re: old subject)" <- > <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. > , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. > > If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of > unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by > clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the home page.  > > Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com > to receive the digest, which includes up to 25 posts at a > time in a single email > > Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com > for the No E-Mail option where you will still be able to > read messages on the group and post replies. > > Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com > to receive individual e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links > > >     mailto:AquaticLife-fullfeatured@yahoogroups.com > > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 42393	From: bill 1433	Date: 7/29/2009
Subject: Re: Proposed plan

Hi Lisa,   I can offer you this as food for thought on your tank and Rams.  I have had them,loved them, and still do.  For a cichlid, they are considered quite peaceful BUT!   That is speaking as a GROUP.  I had 5 and four died.  The single that I have (male)beats up on anything, including my cory's, that will go near HIS rock.  Not badly mind you, just a nip here and there.   My advise?  Keep Rams yes but at least 3 or 4 and try to get at least one female or more if possible.  The females have a pink spot around the area of the pectoral fin.   Bill --- On Wed, 7/29/09, Lisa <lisa_lawless2004@...> wrote: > From: Lisa <lisa_lawless2004@...> > Subject: [AquaticLife] Proposed plan > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Date: Wednesday, July 29, 2009, 3:21 AM > Here is my idea. I am going to trade > in my community fish, bar my albino bristlenose catfish. > Leaving 22gallons of empty tank. > > I would like to have a single German blue ram. But are they > compatible with bn catfish? > > Thanks > Lisa > > > > > ------------------------------------ > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when > replying, Thank You. > ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> > ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> > PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is > NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of > the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new > subject (was re: old subject)" <- > <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. > , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. > > If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of > unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by > clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the home page.  > > Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com > to receive the digest, which includes up to 25 posts at a > time in a single email > > Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com > for the No E-Mail option where you will still be able to > read messages on the group and post replies. > > Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com > to receive individual e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links > > >     mailto:AquaticLife-fullfeatured@yahoogroups.com > > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 42394	From: pam andress	Date: 7/29/2009
Subject: Re: Snail behaviors

Oh NO! I would not look good bald! Well not that I look good now, but bald would be worse. lol Pam PS Ok I'll try not to worry. Yeah right. To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Date: Wed, 29 Jul 2009 06:30:23 -0700 Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: Snail behaviors Ya, And don't worry about that either! Why? I started worrying about it and now I have no hair! Bill

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 42395	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 7/29/2009
Subject: Re: Proposed plan

I agree with Bill, I have 3 pairs (3 females 3 males), and they have obviously all paired up, well the male is the more protective of the two. The males are a little more colorful I guess, but they are both very pretty IMO. My male german blue rams will "pick at" other fish if they get too close to his territory, but if the fish swims off they don't chase them. So it's a matter of having "smart" fish that will leave the Ram's alone if they want them out of their territory. I keep community fish with my Rams, as well as 1 single Severum (yes they get big, they are all in my 125 gallon tank), the Severum is quite docile even compared to the Rams, LOL. I have Cory catfish, Guppy's, Platy's (lots), 1 dwarf gourami, 1 severum, a school of bleeding heart tetras and a couple of "left over" flame tetras (they aren't that hardy IMO, they bloat and die too easily), and of course my 6 hillstream loaches, and 1 BN pleco. I think I got everyone ;) LOL As you can see it's quite a mixture of fish but out of all of them the Ram's are the most aggressive (males), and even so they're just a little "nippy" as bill said. Amber bill 1433 wrote: > > > > Hi Lisa, > > I can offer you this as food for thought on your tank and Rams. I > have had them,loved them, and still do. For a cichlid, they are > considered quite peaceful BUT! > > That is speaking as a GROUP. I had 5 and four died. The single that > I have (male)beats up on anything, including my cory's, that will go > near HIS rock. Not badly mind you, just a nip here and there. > > My advise? Keep Rams yes but at least 3 or 4 and try to get at least > one female or more if possible. The females have a pink spot around > the area of the pectoral fin. > > Bill > > --- On Wed, 7/29/09, Lisa <lisa_lawless2004@... > <mailto:lisa_lawless2004%40yahoo.com.au>> wrote: > > > From: Lisa <lisa_lawless2004@... > <mailto:lisa_lawless2004%40yahoo.com.au>> > > Subject: [AquaticLife] Proposed plan > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > Date: Wednesday, July 29, 2009, 3:21 AM > > Here is my idea. I am going to trade > > in my community fish, bar my albino bristlenose catfish. > > Leaving 22gallons of empty tank. > > > > I would like to have a single German blue ram. But are they > > compatible with bn catfish? > > > > Thanks > > Lisa > > > > > > > > > > ------------------------------------ > > > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when > > replying, Thank You. > > ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> > > ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> > > PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is > > NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of > > the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new > > subject (was re: old subject)" <- > > <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. > > , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. > > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. > > > > If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of > > unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by > > clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the home page. > > > > Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:aquaticlife-digest%40yahoogroups.com> > > to receive the digest, which includes up to 25 posts at a > > time in a single email > > > > Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:aquaticlife-nomail%40yahoogroups.com> > > for the No E-Mail option where you will still be able to > > read messages on the group and post replies. > > > > Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:aquaticlife-normal%40yahoogroups.com> > > to receive individual e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > mailto:AquaticLife-fullfeatured@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife-fullfeatured%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 42396	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 7/29/2009
Subject: Re: Proposed plan

I read it (I think on mongabay) that the german blue ram females don't always have the "pink spot" on their belly, that's only when they go into spawning mode, so it would depend on the female. There are other less easy ways to sex them though, I think it has something to do with the black band that the male has (the female does not have a line like the male, her's will look broken up or missing a spot in her line I guess you would say). Again this is just from memory and my memory sucks ;) LOL. Amber bill 1433 wrote: > > > > Hi Lisa, > > I can offer you this as food for thought on your tank and Rams. I > have had them,loved them, and still do. For a cichlid, they are > considered quite peaceful BUT! > > That is speaking as a GROUP. I had 5 and four died. The single that > I have (male)beats up on anything, including my cory's, that will go > near HIS rock. Not badly mind you, just a nip here and there. > > My advise? Keep Rams yes but at least 3 or 4 and try to get at least > one female or more if possible. The females have a pink spot around > the area of the pectoral fin. > > Bill > > --- On Wed, 7/29/09, Lisa <lisa_lawless2004@... > <mailto:lisa_lawless2004%40yahoo.com.au>> wrote: > > > From: Lisa <lisa_lawless2004@... > <mailto:lisa_lawless2004%40yahoo.com.au>> > > Subject: [AquaticLife] Proposed plan > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > Date: Wednesday, July 29, 2009, 3:21 AM > > Here is my idea. I am going to trade > > in my community fish, bar my albino bristlenose catfish. > > Leaving 22gallons of empty tank. > > > > I would like to have a single German blue ram. But are they > > compatible with bn catfish? > > > > Thanks > > Lisa > > > > > > > > > > ------------------------------------ > > > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when > > replying, Thank You. > > ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> > > ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> > > PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is > > NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of > > the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new > > subject (was re: old subject)" <- > > <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. > > , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. > > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. > > > > If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of > > unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by > > clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the home page. > > > > Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:aquaticlife-digest%40yahoogroups.com> > > to receive the digest, which includes up to 25 posts at a > > time in a single email > > > > Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:aquaticlife-nomail%40yahoogroups.com> > > for the No E-Mail option where you will still be able to > > read messages on the group and post replies. > > > > Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:aquaticlife-normal%40yahoogroups.com> > > to receive individual e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > mailto:AquaticLife-fullfeatured@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife-fullfeatured%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 42397	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 7/29/2009
Subject: Re: Proposed plan

Best place to start is the Mongabay profiles for each species. BN Pleco - http://fish.mongabay.com/species/Ancistrus_dolichopterus.html Blue Ram - http://fish.mongabay.com/apistogramma.htm (Scroll down to the bottom) Other profiles and info on the Blue Rams - http://www.cichlid-forum.com/articles/m_ramirezi.php http://www.thekrib.com/Apisto/P-ramirezi.html (long "article" with lots of comments) Now.. back to the Mongabay profiles... The BN Pleco (Ancistrus sp.) is part of the Loricariidae family and you will see that this family is listed in the SC (Suggested Companions) section in the Blue Ram profile so that is an OK at stage one. Next, the "Water" preferences for the fish. The Blue Ram's water preferences are listed as: WATER : pH 5-7 (6.5), dH 0-10 (3), 73-86°F (23-30°C). And the BN Pleco's water preferences are listed as: Water: pH 5.5-8 (7.0), dH 2-30 (10), 73-84°F (23-29°C) You see that they have similar pH ranges and temperature ranges but the water hardness is higher for the BN Pleco but the ranges do crossover so if your tap water baseline is within these parameters with your GH level between 3dH and 10dH, then you should be OK. With only one Blue Ram and one BN Pleco, you would still have space available so you could look at the Suggested Companions of other suitable fish for the Blue Ram. The downside of getting more than one Blue Ram is that you should get one male and three to four females for the single male and then when he pairs up with one, the others might need to be removed if the tank is not large enough and the pair could also become aggressive towards the other Rams and the BN Pleco during spawning periods. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Lisa Sent: Wednesday, July 29, 2009 2:22 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Proposed plan Here is my idea. I am going to trade in my community fish, bar my albino bristlenose catfish. Leaving 22gallons of empty tank. I would like to have a single German blue ram. But are they compatible with bn catfish? Thanks Lisa

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 42398	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 7/29/2009
Subject: Re: Proposed plan

Oh and if you ever try your hand at making "jello food" for your fish, my Ram's LOVE it, they come flying out of hiding and dart and pick at the food like it's the yummiest thing in the world ;) LOL. It's very cute to watch them. Then all the baby Platy's hang out behind the ram's and eat the little bits that go flying ;) Amber Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > > > Best place to start is the Mongabay profiles for each species. > > BN Pleco - > http://fish.mongabay.com/species/Ancistrus_dolichopterus.html > <http://fish.mongabay.com/species/Ancistrus_dolichopterus.html> > > Blue Ram - http://fish.mongabay.com/apistogramma.htm > <http://fish.mongabay.com/apistogramma.htm> (Scroll down to the > bottom) > > Other profiles and info on the Blue Rams - > http://www.cichlid-forum.com/articles/m_ramirezi.php > <http://www.cichlid-forum.com/articles/m_ramirezi.php> > http://www.thekrib.com/Apisto/P-ramirezi.html > <http://www.thekrib.com/Apisto/P-ramirezi.html> (long "article" with > lots of > comments) > > Now.. back to the Mongabay profiles... > > The BN Pleco (Ancistrus sp.) is part of the Loricariidae family and > you will > see that this family is listed in the SC (Suggested Companions) section in > the Blue Ram profile so that is an OK at stage one. > > Next, the "Water" preferences for the fish. The Blue Ram's water > preferences are listed as: > > WATER : pH 5-7 (6.5), dH 0-10 (3), 73-86°F (23-30°C). > > And the BN Pleco's water preferences are listed as: > > Water: pH 5.5-8 (7.0), dH 2-30 (10), 73-84°F (23-29°C) > > You see that they have similar pH ranges and temperature ranges but the > water hardness is higher for the BN Pleco but the ranges do crossover > so if > your tap water baseline is within these parameters with your GH level > between 3dH and 10dH, then you should be OK. > > With only one Blue Ram and one BN Pleco, you would still have space > available so you could look at the Suggested Companions of other suitable > fish for the Blue Ram. The downside of getting more than one Blue Ram is > that you should get one male and three to four females for the single male > and then when he pairs up with one, the others might need to be removed if > the tank is not large enough and the pair could also become aggressive > towards the other Rams and the BN Pleco during spawning periods. > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right > side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On > Behalf Of Lisa > Sent: Wednesday, July 29, 2009 2:22 AM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Subject: [AquaticLife] Proposed plan > > Here is my idea. I am going to trade in my community fish, bar my albino > bristlenose catfish. Leaving 22gallons of empty tank. > > I would like to have a single German blue ram. But are they compatible > with > bn catfish? > > Thanks > Lisa > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 42399	From: Courtland Jacob	Date: 7/29/2009
Subject: biocube

I have a biocube, not a biorb, two completely different things, I have no experience with the biorb --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, rosette55@... wrote: > > hi, i am not close to buy the Biorb but i am still looking for comments > about it, if you don't mind--couldn't tell looking at the website how > you would get a heater cord through the lid--do they leave a space--also > it's terrible on the website they show like 4 goldfish in an 8 gallon > container! in fact if you browse the smaller setups in the stores they > always show in the photos WAY more fish than the container size could > maintain. this seems so irresponsible! Samantha >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 42400	From: Lisa	Date: 7/29/2009
Subject: Rams

Hi all. Given my recent post, i was just wondering what the difference between Bolivian and German blue rams actually is? I know they're both dwarf `south American'? chichlids. Is it just the colour? Do they come from different regions? Is one more aggressive then the other? Thanks Lisa

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 42401	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 7/29/2009
Subject: Re: Rams

Mongabay says that the bolivian ram is hardier and easier to breed than the german ram's are. I don't know if they come from different regions or just have been selectively bred in South America, either way I believe they both come from South America ;) Either way they are all short lived 2-3 years at BEST. I had one live 8 months, not sure what age it was from the LFS. The ones I have now were quite small when I got them so they should have been fairly young (tank bred not wild caught). The german blue ram's that I got recently grew fast though after being put in the 125 gallon, they are nearly fully grown already in less than a month. Amber Lisa wrote: > > > Hi all. Given my recent post, i was just wondering what the difference > between Bolivian and German blue rams actually is? > > I know they're both dwarf `south American'? chichlids. > Is it just the colour? > Do they come from different regions? > Is one more aggressive then the other? > > Thanks > Lisa > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 42402	From: Lisa	Date: 7/29/2009
Subject: Re: Proposed plan

Lovely, thanks Bill, Amber and Lenny. I was thinking they'd need like an entire tank mostly to themselvs like bettas, cause of the way they seem to 'dart' around a tank. My tank is overstocked atm anyway, because my guppies are breeding like mad. But i was gonna trade in my guppies anyway. So that leavs me with 1 betta, 2 bn catfish (one albino, the other brown) about 10 cardenal tetras, 4 glass catfish 2 dalmation mollies and 3 swordtails. What i was looking at having in my tank after reading all the replies is... my bn catfishes my betta (seperated if need be) The tetras and the mollies The glass catfish. And of course the ram Which would make 18 fish total in the 22gal Lisa And i trade in the swordtails and guppies.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 42403	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 7/29/2009
Subject: Re: Proposed plan

Is that 22 U.S. gallons or Aussie gallons? I'm guessing Aussie, which are larger than U.S. gallons. I think around 1.37 U.S. gallons in an Aussie gallon so your 22G AUS would be equal to around 30G U.S. but in either case, it's not so much "how many" fish but the expected adult sizes of your fish. For fish that stay under 3" as adults, you can use the "1 gallon per inch guideline" but for fish that grow over 3" as adults, they may need 2 gallons per inch, 3 gallons per inch, 5 gallons per inch, etc., depending on how big they get. For example, a 36" Koi can not survive in 36 gallons of water but instead need 300G to 500G per fish (depending on filtration, pond maintenance, etc.) I thought you said you were getting rid of all of your community fish, except for the BN Pleco but you only mentioned one. We know the BN Plecos grow to around 6" each so figure at least 12G for each of them for a total of 24G (U.S.). The dwarf Rams need a little extra space even though they only grow to between 3" and 4" each so for just the 2 BN's and the dwarf Ram, that would put a big dent in your recommended stocking but if you are willing to do extra tank maintenance, you might be able to keep a school of six Cardinal Tetras since they are such a small bioload compared to the other bigger fish. The African Glass Catfish http://fish.mongabay.com/species/Eutropiellus_buffei.html grow to 3" each and are schooling fish so they should be in schools of six or more but even those four would cause you overstocking problems with your other plans. Were you planning on trading them in? Do you have another mini-tank that you could house the Betta in? If not, then you could forego the Cardinal Tetras and keep the Betta in with the other three fish but I think having the school of Cardinal Tetras would add to filling the tank out. The mollies and swordtails generally prefer harder water and a higher pH than the rest of the proposed fish so those should probably be traded in as well. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Lisa Sent: Wednesday, July 29, 2009 11:00 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Proposed plan Lovely, thanks Bill, Amber and Lenny. I was thinking they'd need like an entire tank mostly to themselvs like bettas, cause of the way they seem to 'dart' around a tank. My tank is overstocked atm anyway, because my guppies are breeding like mad. But i was gonna trade in my guppies anyway. So that leavs me with 1 betta, 2 bn catfish (one albino, the other brown) about 10 cardenal tetras, 4 glass catfish 2 dalmation mollies and 3 swordtails. What i was looking at having in my tank after reading all the replies is... my bn catfishes my betta (seperated if need be) The tetras and the mollies The glass catfish. And of course the ram Which would make 18 fish total in the 22gal Lisa And i trade in the swordtails and guppies. ------------------------------------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the home page. Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com to receive the digest, which includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com for the No E-Mail option where you will still be able to read messages on the group and post replies. Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com to receive individual e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 42404	From: Lisa	Date: 7/29/2009
Subject: Re: Proposed plan

Yes i'll trade in all bar the bn's, Cause i can't bare to part with my albino bn. And i already do weekly pws and gravel vacs Lisa

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 42405	From: Raymond Wetzel	Date: 7/30/2009
Subject: Re: Rams

They're two separate and distinctly different species. The German Blue Ram is Mikrogeophagus ramirezi (hence the common name), and the Bolivian Ram is Mikrogeophagus altispinosa (sometimes referred to as M. altispinosus). Yes, they're both dwarf South American species, and while neither are especially aggressive as far as Cichlids go, the Bolivian Ram gets bigger and can be somewhat more aggressive than the German Blue Ram, although both are considered peaceful. None are bred commercially in South American, but collected upon occassion. Most are bred in the Far East and in Florida. As the name would imply, the Bolivian Ram is found in the general region of Bolivia, whereas the German Blue Ram originally came from Western Venezuela. There is a man-made Golden variety of this species. Ray --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Lisa" <lisa_lawless2004@...> wrote: > > Hi all. Given my recent post, i was just wondering what the difference between Bolivian and German blue rams actually is? > > I know they're both dwarf `south American'? chichlids. > Is it just the colour? > Do they come from different regions? > Is one more aggressive then the other? > > Thanks > Lisa >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 42406	From: bill 1433	Date: 7/30/2009
Subject: Re: Rams

Hi Lisa, I would add to Ray's comments, that while they are 100% accurate; they will most probably NOT follow what you will find in the real world or more directly your LPS.   Here in North Eastern, PA and in other areas I suspect, these poor fish suffer big time in being mis-named.  If you research a bit on your own and find good reference pictures of them it will go along way in helping you make correct choices.  You may also find, if you have any interest at all in breeding them yourself, that finding females in the two species is near impossible.    I found around here that there is a very simple reason for this, they don't want you to bred the fish and thus keep the prices high.  Most of the fish available for sale are juviniles, about 9 months to a year old.  Many will tell you that the males are the most colorful, all sorts of excuses.  There are differences between the males and females, do your homework and learn what they are.  If you should be lucky enough to find some that are young or small buy a bunch and you will most likely have a female or two in the group.  At this size they are impossible to sex and chances are good for getting pairs.   These are great fish to keep and I am in constant search now to obtain more "buddies" for the one I have left.  As for tank mates?  Again, although as Ray just told you, they are considered "Peaceful"; they are from Cichlid family and having kept some already, I can tell you for tank mates, only Cory cats and 5 or 6 at least.  They seem not to bother the Cory's too much but hardly at all when there is a bunch of them.  Maybe they don't want to start a "Gang War"?  I'm not sure why, but this is something I have observed in keeping them.  Other fish like Tetra's may be OK but in the end if anyone in the group decides to stake out territory or rock for their own, they will chase away anyone else, its the type of fish that they are.   Bill   --- On Thu, 7/30/09, Raymond Wetzel <sevenspringss@...> wrote: > From: Raymond Wetzel <sevenspringss@...> > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Rams > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Date: Thursday, July 30, 2009, 8:09 AM > They're two separate and distinctly > different species.  The German Blue Ram is > Mikrogeophagus ramirezi (hence the common name), and the > Bolivian Ram is Mikrogeophagus altispinosa (sometimes > referred to as M. altispinosus).  Yes, they're both > dwarf South American species, and while neither are > especially aggressive as far as Cichlids go, the Bolivian > Ram gets bigger and can be somewhat more aggressive than the > German Blue Ram, although both are considered > peaceful.  None are bred commercially in South > American, but collected upon occassion.  Most are bred > in the Far East and in Florida.  As the name would > imply, the Bolivian Ram is found in the general region of > Bolivia, whereas the German Blue Ram originally came from > Western Venezuela.  There is a man-made Golden variety > of this species.  Ray > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, > "Lisa" <lisa_lawless2004@...> wrote: > > > > Hi all. Given my recent post, i was just wondering > what the difference between Bolivian and German blue rams > actually is? > >  > > I know they're both dwarf `south American'? > chichlids. > > Is it just the colour? > > Do they come from different regions? > > Is one more aggressive then the other? > >  > > Thanks > > Lisa > > > > > > > ------------------------------------ > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when > replying, Thank You. > ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> > ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> > PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is > NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of > the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new > subject (was re: old subject)" <- > <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. > , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. > > If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of > unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by > clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the home page.  > > Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com > to receive the digest, which includes up to 25 posts at a > time in a single email > > Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com > for the No E-Mail option where you will still be able to > read messages on the group and post replies. > > Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com > to receive individual e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links > > >     mailto:AquaticLife-fullfeatured@yahoogroups.com > > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 42407	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 7/30/2009
Subject: Re: Rams

You guys should have gone through the same person I got my Ram's from, they were very willing to send me pairs. I didn't ask for more females than males though, that might have met with resistance ;) LOL Amber bill 1433 wrote: > > > > Hi Lisa, > > I would add to Ray's comments, that while they are 100% accurate; > they will most probably NOT follow what you will find in the real world > or more directly your LPS. > > Here in North Eastern, PA and in other areas I suspect, these poor fish > suffer big time in being mis-named. If you research a bit on your own > and find > good reference pictures of them it will go along way in helping you make > correct choices. You may also find, if you have any interest at all > in breeding > them yourself, that finding females in the two species is near > impossible. > > I found around here that there is a very simple reason for this, they > don't want you > to bred the fish and thus keep the prices high. Most of the fish > available for sale are juviniles, about 9 months to a year old. Many > will tell you that the males > are the most colorful, all sorts of excuses. There are differences > between the > males and females, do your homework and learn what they are. If you > should be > lucky enough to find some that are young or small buy a bunch and you will > most likely have a female or two in the group. At this size they are > impossible > to sex and chances are good for getting pairs. > > These are great fish to keep and I am in constant search now to obtain > more > "buddies" for the one I have left. As for tank mates? Again, > although as Ray > just told you, they are considered "Peaceful"; they are from Cichlid > family and having kept some already, I can tell you for tank mates, > only Cory cats and 5 or 6 at least. They seem not to bother the > Cory's too much but hardly at all when there is a bunch of them. > Maybe they don't want to start a "Gang War"? I'm not sure why, but > this is something I have observed in keeping them. Other fish like > Tetra's may be OK but in the end if anyone in the group decides to > stake out territory or rock for their own, they will chase away anyone > else, its the type of fish that they are. > > Bill > > > --- On Thu, 7/30/09, Raymond Wetzel <sevenspringss@... > <mailto:sevenspringss%40wmconnect.com>> wrote: > > > From: Raymond Wetzel <sevenspringss@... > <mailto:sevenspringss%40wmconnect.com>> > > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Rams > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > Date: Thursday, July 30, 2009, 8:09 AM > > They're two separate and distinctly > > different species. The German Blue Ram is > > Mikrogeophagus ramirezi (hence the common name), and the > > Bolivian Ram is Mikrogeophagus altispinosa (sometimes > > referred to as M. altispinosus). Yes, they're both > > dwarf South American species, and while neither are > > especially aggressive as far as Cichlids go, the Bolivian > > Ram gets bigger and can be somewhat more aggressive than the > > German Blue Ram, although both are considered > > peaceful. None are bred commercially in South > > American, but collected upon occassion. Most are bred > > in the Far East and in Florida. As the name would > > imply, the Bolivian Ram is found in the general region of > > Bolivia, whereas the German Blue Ram originally came from > > Western Venezuela. There is a man-made Golden variety > > of this species. Ray > > > > > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>, > > "Lisa" <lisa_lawless2004@...> wrote: > > > > > > Hi all. Given my recent post, i was just wondering > > what the difference between Bolivian and German blue rams > > actually is? > > > > > > I know they're both dwarf `south American'? > > chichlids. > > > Is it just the colour? > > > Do they come from different regions? > > > Is one more aggressive then the other? > > > > > > Thanks > > > Lisa > > > > > > > > > > > > > ------------------------------------ > > > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when > > replying, Thank You. > > ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> > > ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> > > PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is > > NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of > > the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new > > subject (was re: old subject)" <- > > <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. > > , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. > > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. > > > > If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of > > unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by > > clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the home page. > > > > Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:aquaticlife-digest%40yahoogroups.com> > > to receive the digest, which includes up to 25 posts at a > > time in a single email > > > > Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:aquaticlife-nomail%40yahoogroups.com> > > for the No E-Mail option where you will still be able to > > read messages on the group and post replies. > > > > Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:aquaticlife-normal%40yahoogroups.com> > > to receive individual e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > mailto:AquaticLife-fullfeatured@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife-fullfeatured%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 42408	From: Byron	Date: 7/30/2009
Subject: Re: Rams

They are two distinct and the only species in the genus Mikrogeophagus. Mikrogeophagus altispinosa is the "Bolivian" Ram, and M. ramirezi is the original "common" ram from which the various colour morphs (Blue Ram, Gold Ram, German Ram) came. Most you now see in pet stores are commercially raised, although it is still possible to acquire wild caught fish. M. ramirezi is found in South America in the Orinoco system in Venezuela and Columbia, inhabiting still waters of the savanannas. This is a clue to their successful aquarium maintainance, for they prefer very soft and acidic water that is warmer than the usual community aquaria. One site reported by Linke/Staeck had water with a pH of 5.1, total and carbonate hardness below 1 degree, and a temperature of 28.5 C (83 F). The two species do not overlap. M. altisponosa occurs in areas of the Amazon basin in Brazil and Bolivia, particularly the Rio Mamore system. Water parameters in places are similar to the afore-mentioned, but there have been collection sites with a pH of 7.6 and a total and carbonate hardness of 4 degrees, temperature at 27 C (81 F). This species is more tolerant of "normal" aquarium conditions and makes a nice addition to a community tank of peaceful characins and catfish. As the site data would suggest, it can fare better in slightly harder and alkaline (basic) water, whereas the M. ramirezi is much less tolerant of such conditions. This is the reason many aquarists find M. ramirezi do not live long. Even though commercially raised, they seem to retain their natural evolutionary need for soft, acidic water if they are to remain healthy. The common ram is also less tolerant of water quality fluctuations than the Bolivian Ram, although the latter will fade away if aquarium maintainance is not consistent and the water not stable over the long term. But the common ram will usually not last more than a couple of weeks in such conditions. M. ramirezi is best kept in pairs (male/female) and if the water quality is good spawnings will occur easily. Males establish a territory and will defend it against other males, so if more than one pair is kept the aquarium must have sufficient room and provide territory boundaries such as bogwood and plants. M. altipinosa works well as single specimens in a community aquarium; it is more difficult to distinguish male and female, and two males or two females will cntinually defend their space. In its habitat, this species is believed to live in solitude apart from reproduction periods. I have successfully maintained a single fish in a community setup with the only sign of agression being a slight "poke" at corydoras feeding on tablets. The Bolivian ram feeds from the substrate, searching for food bits and frequently picking up bits of gravel to examine and spitting it out, but there is no rearranging of the aquascape as with some larger cichlids. A perfect community fish at home in a well planted and maintained tank. Byron. The species have been placed in different genera since first being discovered. M. ramirezi was originally thought to be an Apistogramma, then both species were Papiliochromis, then Microgeophagus, until the Sweedish ichthylogist and authority on dwarf cichlids Sven Kullander established them in their own genus Mikrogeophagus in 2003. --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Lisa" <lisa_lawless2004@...> wrote: > > Hi all. Given my recent post, i was just wondering what the difference between Bolivian and German blue rams actually is? > > I know they're both dwarf `south American'? chichlids. > Is it just the colour? > Do they come from different regions? > Is one more aggressive then the other? > > Thanks > Lisa >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 42409	From: greychildren	Date: 7/30/2009
Subject: Fish Parasites, or Just Scavengers?

Scud or Gammarus shrimp what are you guys input?

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 42410	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 7/30/2009
Subject: Re: Fish Parasites, or Just Scavengers?

Neither of the above... I think more of a food item. I guess until they become a meal, they might be considered a scavenger unless you only have really small fish that can't eat them. You must have read that article on FishChannel.com, which is the website for Aquarium Fish Int'l. Magazine... a mag that I no longer subscribe to since it gives out some really bad info on a regular basis. Here's their article titled "Fish Parasites, or Just Scavengers?" which is a bad title which might lead some to think these might be parasites... but they ARE NOT. http://www.fishchannel.com/media/freshwater-aquariums/invertebrates/gammarus -shrimp.aspx.pdf Here's a few more threads about them. Some folks get overly concerned about them. Others realize they are just a natural part of aquaria. http://www.caudata.org/forum/showthread.php?t=60345 http://www.plantedtank.net/forums/shrimp-other-invertebrates/85708-need-some -help-gammarus-aka-scud.html http://www.aquaticplantcentral.com/forumapc/dallas-ft-worth-aquatic-plant-cl ub/61636-gammarus-aka-scud-i-need-help.html Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of greychildren Sent: Thursday, July 30, 2009 1:18 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Fish Parasites, or Just Scavengers? Scud or Gammarus shrimp what are you guys input?

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 42411	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 7/30/2009
Subject: Naturalist aquarium offers glimpse of ocean's treasures | www.jamest

http://www.jamestownpress.com/news/2009-07-30/News/Naturalist_aquarium_offers_glimpse_of_oceans_treas.html http://tinyurl.com/lvef22 If you are headed toward New England this summer, you may want to stop here, in Rhode Island. \\Steve//

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 42412	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 7/30/2009
Subject: Missing Eye

Is there anything I should do for a Ram with a missing eye? It doesn't look like it bothers him, he's still with his female and displaying, but I noticed when he turned around that one eye was missing. He must have gotten into a fight with another ram. Should I move a pair out of the tank into my 55 gallon? I figured with all the drift wood and caves/plants that there would be plenty of hiding places for the 3 pairs of rams in the 125 gallon tank but obviously someone got a little too territorial. Amber

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 42413	From: biG poppa	Date: 7/30/2009
Subject: Re: Fish Parasites, or Just Scavengers?

yea that were it came fro Lenny...some one is going to send me some plants in this plants there is scud's.. i was just wondering if there were going to harm my fish ones there added to the tank

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 42414	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 7/31/2009
Subject: Re: Fish Parasites, or Just Scavengers?

They won't harm your fish and like allegedly "nuisance" type snails, they can be a barometer of what is going on in your tank. If you start to see too many, it means the tank needs more frequent tank maintenance since they are both opportunistic breeders and will overly breed only when there is plenty of food available. Cutting back on the amount during each feeding and increasing the frequency of gravel vacuuming will limit their numbers dramatically. If you want to try and kill them off of your incoming plants, you should sanitize and quarantine the plants before adding them to your main tank. See my blog article "Planted Tank - So You Want A Planted Tank?" for more detailed info and links on sanitizing plants. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of biG poppa Sent: Thursday, July 30, 2009 4:31 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] RE: Fish Parasites, or Just Scavengers? yea that were it came fro Lenny...some one is going to send me some plants in this plants there is scud's.. i was just wondering if there were going to harm my fish ones there added to the tank

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 42415	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 7/31/2009
Subject: Re: Missing Eye

There's always a chance for infection. If you have an open quarantine tank, I would move it (or the pair) to the Q-tank and then treat it with either salt or a mild antibacterial like Melafix for a week or two. If you do not have a Q-tank, then whichever tank you do keep the fish in should be kept VERY clean with daily 25% PWC's and possibly adding salt (if other fish are tolerant) or Melafix. There's always the chance that it wasn't a fight and that the fish simply injured the eye. Is there a chance this fish has been hiding a little more in the past week or so while the fight or accident injured eye sloughed off? An injured eye does NOT immediately disappear and it would usually take more than one nip during a fight to completely remove an eye. If there is no evidence of the damaged tissue and the eye socket is completely healed over, then the above may not be necessary. Is the fish eating and fending for itself during eating sessions so that it is getting it's fair share of food? That seems to be one of the problems that one-eyed fish have in zeroing in on floating food particles. All of us use our two eyes to triangulate in on things. This is what gives us our depth/distance perception capabilities. Sinking foods that stay still are easier for a one eyed fish to deal with. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Amber Berglund Sent: Thursday, July 30, 2009 9:39 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Missing Eye Is there anything I should do for a Ram with a missing eye? It doesn't look like it bothers him, he's still with his female and displaying, but I noticed when he turned around that one eye was missing. He must have gotten into a fight with another ram. Should I move a pair out of the tank into my 55 gallon? I figured with all the drift wood and caves/plants that there would be plenty of hiding places for the 3 pairs of rams in the 125 gallon tank but obviously someone got a little too territorial. Amber

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 42416	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 7/31/2009
Subject: Re: Missing Eye

I think his mate helps him, they are not often spotted in separate spots in the tank at least. But he may have been hiding a little (there are lots of hiding places in that tank). How do I know if it is healed? It does not look fuzzy or anything, just an empty eye socket and it's white in color where the eye is missing. He was eating when I fed the tank last night, that's how I noticed he was missing an eye, he turned to get some food and turned his missing eye towards me. I have an empty Q tank... somewhere, LOL. The filter is cycled on my 55 gallon. I'm just worried that it would stress them out to move them into a 10 gallon with no plants/decorations. I can't add salt to the 125 gallon as there are Cory's in it and I think they would mind ;) I could add melafix to the whole 125 gallon but that's a lot of melafix ;) LOL. Amber Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > > > There's always a chance for infection. If you have an open quarantine > tank, > I would move it (or the pair) to the Q-tank and then treat it with either > salt or a mild antibacterial like Melafix for a week or two. If you do not > have a Q-tank, then whichever tank you do keep the fish in should be kept > VERY clean with daily 25% PWC's and possibly adding salt (if other > fish are > tolerant) or Melafix. > > There's always the chance that it wasn't a fight and that the fish simply > injured the eye. Is there a chance this fish has been hiding a little more > in the past week or so while the fight or accident injured eye > sloughed off? > An injured eye does NOT immediately disappear and it would usually > take more > than one nip during a fight to completely remove an eye. If there is no > evidence of the damaged tissue and the eye socket is completely healed > over, > then the above may not be necessary. > > Is the fish eating and fending for itself during eating sessions so > that it > is getting it's fair share of food? That seems to be one of the problems > that one-eyed fish have in zeroing in on floating food particles. All > of us > use our two eyes to triangulate in on things. This is what gives us our > depth/distance perception capabilities. Sinking foods that stay still are > easier for a one eyed fish to deal with. > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right > side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On > Behalf Of Amber Berglund > Sent: Thursday, July 30, 2009 9:39 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Subject: [AquaticLife] Missing Eye > > Is there anything I should do for a Ram with a missing eye? It doesn't > look > like it bothers him, he's still with his female and displaying, but I > noticed when he turned around that one eye was missing. He must have > gotten > into a fight with another ram. Should I move a pair out of the tank > into my > 55 gallon? I figured with all the drift wood and caves/plants that there > would be plenty of hiding places for the 3 pairs of rams in the 125 gallon > tank but obviously someone got a little too territorial. > > Amber > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 42417	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 7/31/2009
Subject: Re: Missing Eye

Yep. That's a BIG reason for using a Q-tank or H-tank when treating fish. It's a heck of a lot cheaper to treat a 10G tank than a much larger display tank. If it looks like the eye is fully healed with no damaged tissue in the eye socket, then the injury likely happened several days to a week or so ago. It may be too late to worry about medicating, if it's already healed up. Just keep a closer eye on them to make sure they aren't fighting. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Amber Berglund Sent: Friday, July 31, 2009 9:47 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Missing Eye I think his mate helps him, they are not often spotted in separate spots in the tank at least. But he may have been hiding a little (there are lots of hiding places in that tank). How do I know if it is healed? It does not look fuzzy or anything, just an empty eye socket and it's white in color where the eye is missing. He was eating when I fed the tank last night, that's how I noticed he was missing an eye, he turned to get some food and turned his missing eye towards me. I have an empty Q tank... somewhere, LOL. The filter is cycled on my 55 gallon. I'm just worried that it would stress them out to move them into a 10 gallon with no plants/decorations. I can't add salt to the 125 gallon as there are Cory's in it and I think they would mind ;) I could add melafix to the whole 125 gallon but that's a lot of melafix ;) LOL. Amber Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > > > There's always a chance for infection. If you have an open quarantine > tank, I would move it (or the pair) to the Q-tank and then treat it > with either salt or a mild antibacterial like Melafix for a week or > two. If you do not have a Q-tank, then whichever tank you do keep the > fish in should be kept VERY clean with daily 25% PWC's and possibly > adding salt (if other fish are > tolerant) or Melafix. > > There's always the chance that it wasn't a fight and that the fish > simply injured the eye. Is there a chance this fish has been hiding a > little more in the past week or so while the fight or accident injured > eye sloughed off? > An injured eye does NOT immediately disappear and it would usually > take more than one nip during a fight to completely remove an eye. If > there is no evidence of the damaged tissue and the eye socket is > completely healed over, then the above may not be necessary. > > Is the fish eating and fending for itself during eating sessions so > that it is getting it's fair share of food? That seems to be one of > the problems that one-eyed fish have in zeroing in on floating food > particles. All of us use our two eyes to triangulate in on things. > This is what gives us our depth/distance perception capabilities. > Sinking foods that stay still are easier for a one eyed fish to deal > with. > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> (Links to any articles referenced in > above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels > and also under Archives by Year, Month) > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On Behalf Of Amber Berglund > Sent: Thursday, July 30, 2009 9:39 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Subject: [AquaticLife] Missing Eye > > Is there anything I should do for a Ram with a missing eye? It doesn't > look like it bothers him, he's still with his female and displaying, > but I noticed when he turned around that one eye was missing. He must > have gotten into a fight with another ram. Should I move a pair out of > the tank into my > 55 gallon? I figured with all the drift wood and caves/plants that > there would be plenty of hiding places for the 3 pairs of rams in the > 125 gallon tank but obviously someone got a little too territorial. > > Amber

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 42418	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 7/31/2009
Subject: Re: Missing Eye

Will try to keep an eye on them (is that a horrid pun? LOL), but I'm working 10+ hours a day and come home all beat up feeling (darn boxes anyway), LOL. So I don't even want to make food when I get home, let's put it that way. My tank cleanings and maintenance got a little slack too for a couple weeks but I caught back up (cleaned a filter a day until everything was clean). How would I tell if it's healed exactly? I'm not used to having fish with wounds ;) This is my first injury I suppose you could say. Normally it's dead or sick, nothing in between, except getting better after being sick ;) Amber Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > > > Yep. That's a BIG reason for using a Q-tank or H-tank when treating fish. > It's a heck of a lot cheaper to treat a 10G tank than a much larger > display > tank. > > If it looks like the eye is fully healed with no damaged tissue in the eye > socket, then the injury likely happened several days to a week or so ago. > It may be too late to worry about medicating, if it's already healed up. > Just keep a closer eye on them to make sure they aren't fighting. > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right > side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On > Behalf Of Amber Berglund > Sent: Friday, July 31, 2009 9:47 AM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Missing Eye > > I think his mate helps him, they are not often spotted in separate > spots in > the tank at least. But he may have been hiding a little (there are lots of > hiding places in that tank). How do I know if it is healed? It does > not look > fuzzy or anything, just an empty eye socket and it's white in color where > the eye is missing. He was eating when I fed the tank last night, > that's how > I noticed he was missing an eye, he turned to get some food and turned his > missing eye towards me. I have an empty Q tank... somewhere, LOL. The > filter > is cycled on my 55 gallon. I'm just worried that it would stress them > out to > move them into a 10 gallon with no plants/decorations. I can't add salt to > the 125 gallon as there are Cory's in it and I think they would mind ;) I > could add melafix to the whole 125 gallon but that's a lot of melafix ;) > LOL. > > Amber > > Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > > > > > > There's always a chance for infection. If you have an open quarantine > > tank, I would move it (or the pair) to the Q-tank and then treat it > > with either salt or a mild antibacterial like Melafix for a week or > > two. If you do not have a Q-tank, then whichever tank you do keep the > > fish in should be kept VERY clean with daily 25% PWC's and possibly > > adding salt (if other fish are > > tolerant) or Melafix. > > > > There's always the chance that it wasn't a fight and that the fish > > simply injured the eye. Is there a chance this fish has been hiding a > > little more in the past week or so while the fight or accident injured > > eye sloughed off? > > An injured eye does NOT immediately disappear and it would usually > > take more than one nip during a fight to completely remove an eye. If > > there is no evidence of the damaged tissue and the eye socket is > > completely healed over, then the above may not be necessary. > > > > Is the fish eating and fending for itself during eating sessions so > > that it is getting it's fair share of food? That seems to be one of > > the problems that one-eyed fish have in zeroing in on floating food > > particles. All of us use our two eyes to triangulate in on things. > > This is what gives us our depth/distance perception capabilities. > > Sinking foods that stay still are easier for a one eyed fish to deal > > with. > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>> > (Links to any articles referenced in > > above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels > > and also under Archives by Year, Month) > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On Behalf Of Amber Berglund > > Sent: Thursday, July 30, 2009 9:39 PM > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > Subject: [AquaticLife] Missing Eye > > > > Is there anything I should do for a Ram with a missing eye? It doesn't > > look like it bothers him, he's still with his female and displaying, > > but I noticed when he turned around that one eye was missing. He must > > have gotten into a fight with another ram. Should I move a pair out of > > the tank into my > > 55 gallon? I figured with all the drift wood and caves/plants that > > there would be plenty of hiding places for the 3 pairs of rams in the > > 125 gallon tank but obviously someone got a little too territorial. > > > > Amber > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 42419	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 7/31/2009
Subject: Re: Missing Eye

Well, you didn't indicate any redness, swelling, oozing, etc., so it *sounds* like it's healed up. Only you can tell that though for certain. I'm not sure if fish recognize a fish with a missing eye as being more vulnerable, like they would a sick or otherwise injured fish, but keep an eye on him (pardon the pun.. lol.. lots of good puns for a thread like this one) at feeding time to make sure he's acting normal and not showing any other signs of injury... such as nipped fins, etc. So... have you decided on a name for him? Might I suggest Jack... as in "One-Eyed Jack"? ;-) Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Amber Berglund Sent: Friday, July 31, 2009 10:54 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Missing Eye Will try to keep an eye on them (is that a horrid pun? LOL), but I'm working 10+ hours a day and come home all beat up feeling (darn boxes anyway), LOL. So I don't even want to make food when I get home, let's put it that way. My tank cleanings and maintenance got a little slack too for a couple weeks but I caught back up (cleaned a filter a day until everything was clean). How would I tell if it's healed exactly? I'm not used to having fish with wounds ;) This is my first injury I suppose you could say. Normally it's dead or sick, nothing in between, except getting better after being sick ;) Amber Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > > > Yep. That's a BIG reason for using a Q-tank or H-tank when treating fish. > It's a heck of a lot cheaper to treat a 10G tank than a much larger > display tank. > > If it looks like the eye is fully healed with no damaged tissue in the > eye socket, then the injury likely happened several days to a week or so ago. > It may be too late to worry about medicating, if it's already healed up. > Just keep a closer eye on them to make sure they aren't fighting. > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> (Links to any articles referenced in > above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels > and also under Archives by Year, Month) > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On Behalf Of Amber Berglund > Sent: Friday, July 31, 2009 9:47 AM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Missing Eye > > I think his mate helps him, they are not often spotted in separate > spots in the tank at least. But he may have been hiding a little > (there are lots of hiding places in that tank). How do I know if it is > healed? It does not look fuzzy or anything, just an empty eye socket > and it's white in color where the eye is missing. He was eating when I > fed the tank last night, that's how I noticed he was missing an eye, > he turned to get some food and turned his missing eye towards me. I > have an empty Q tank... somewhere, LOL. The filter is cycled on my 55 > gallon. I'm just worried that it would stress them out to move them > into a 10 gallon with no plants/decorations. I can't add salt to the > 125 gallon as there are Cory's in it and I think they would mind ;) I > could add melafix to the whole 125 gallon but that's a lot of melafix > ;) LOL. > > Amber > > Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > > > > > > There's always a chance for infection. If you have an open > > quarantine tank, I would move it (or the pair) to the Q-tank and > > then treat it with either salt or a mild antibacterial like Melafix > > for a week or two. If you do not have a Q-tank, then whichever tank > > you do keep the fish in should be kept VERY clean with daily 25% > > PWC's and possibly adding salt (if other fish are > > tolerant) or Melafix. > > > > There's always the chance that it wasn't a fight and that the fish > > simply injured the eye. Is there a chance this fish has been hiding > > a little more in the past week or so while the fight or accident > > injured eye sloughed off? > > An injured eye does NOT immediately disappear and it would usually > > take more than one nip during a fight to completely remove an eye. > > If there is no evidence of the damaged tissue and the eye socket is > > completely healed over, then the above may not be necessary. > > > > Is the fish eating and fending for itself during eating sessions so > > that it is getting it's fair share of food? That seems to be one of > > the problems that one-eyed fish have in zeroing in on floating food > > particles. All of us use our two eyes to triangulate in on things. > > This is what gives us our depth/distance perception capabilities. > > Sinking foods that stay still are easier for a one eyed fish to deal > > with. > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>> > (Links to any articles referenced in > > above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under > > Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On Behalf Of Amber Berglund > > Sent: Thursday, July 30, 2009 9:39 PM > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > Subject: [AquaticLife] Missing Eye > > > > Is there anything I should do for a Ram with a missing eye? It > > doesn't look like it bothers him, he's still with his female and > > displaying, but I noticed when he turned around that one eye was > > missing. He must have gotten into a fight with another ram. Should I > > move a pair out of the tank into my > > 55 gallon? I figured with all the drift wood and caves/plants that > > there would be plenty of hiding places for the 3 pairs of rams in > > the > > 125 gallon tank but obviously someone got a little too territorial. > > > > Amber

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 42420	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 7/31/2009
Subject: Re: Missing Eye

He has none of those signs so I would assume moving him right now is not as serious unless they are still fighting. I will check on them at lunch, if anything I could still move a pair upstairs to the 55 gallon if they are fighting. Or maybe plant some more plants or something, maybe more hiding places too. Amber On Jul 31, 2009 9:05 AM, "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@...> wrote: Well, you didn't indicate any redness, swelling, oozing, etc., so it *sounds* like it's healed up. Only you can tell that though for certain. I'm not sure if fish recognize a fish with a missing eye as being more vulnerable, like they would a sick or otherwise injured fish, but keep an eye on him (pardon the pun.. lol.. lots of good puns for a thread like this one) at feeding time to make sure he's acting normal and not showing any other signs of injury... such as nipped fins, etc. So... have you decided on a name for him? Might I suggest Jack... as in "One-Eyed Jack"? ;-) Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under ... From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Amber Berglund Sent: Friday, July 31, 2009 10:54 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Missing Eye Will try to keep an eye on them (is that a horrid pun? LOL),... [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 42421	From: xdee86x	Date: 7/31/2009
Subject: Burundi Frontosa

Hi, I have Burundi frontosas in my tank, there is 7 (2inch) and 5(1inch). If there is anyone who has these fish and no longer want them please please I will take them. Or even any information on them. Would be grateful

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 42422	From: Natalie Beacom	Date: 7/31/2009
Subject: Re: Burundi Frontosa

i have 1 in my tank i know they are ALOT of money and that they take FOREVER to grow too. ive had mine for 2-3 year and its just now like 4-5 inchs

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 42423	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 7/31/2009
Subject: Re: Missing Eye

Okay, the whole eye doesn't appear to be missing, I got a closer look at him. It has yet to "fall off" so to speak, and the whole eye doesn't appear damaged, perhaps he ran into something instead of fighting. Should I still move him if he's eating okay and not getting picked on? Should I dose with melafix if I move him or wait until the dead cells fall off? Amber Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > > > Yep. That's a BIG reason for using a Q-tank or H-tank when treating fish. > It's a heck of a lot cheaper to treat a 10G tank than a much larger > display > tank. > > If it looks like the eye is fully healed with no damaged tissue in the eye > socket, then the injury likely happened several days to a week or so ago. > It may be too late to worry about medicating, if it's already healed up. > Just keep a closer eye on them to make sure they aren't fighting. > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right > side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On > Behalf Of Amber Berglund > Sent: Friday, July 31, 2009 9:47 AM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Missing Eye > > I think his mate helps him, they are not often spotted in separate > spots in > the tank at least. But he may have been hiding a little (there are lots of > hiding places in that tank). How do I know if it is healed? It does > not look > fuzzy or anything, just an empty eye socket and it's white in color where > the eye is missing. He was eating when I fed the tank last night, > that's how > I noticed he was missing an eye, he turned to get some food and turned his > missing eye towards me. I have an empty Q tank... somewhere, LOL. The > filter > is cycled on my 55 gallon. I'm just worried that it would stress them > out to > move them into a 10 gallon with no plants/decorations. I can't add salt to > the 125 gallon as there are Cory's in it and I think they would mind ;) I > could add melafix to the whole 125 gallon but that's a lot of melafix ;) > LOL. > > Amber > > Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > > > > > > There's always a chance for infection. If you have an open quarantine > > tank, I would move it (or the pair) to the Q-tank and then treat it > > with either salt or a mild antibacterial like Melafix for a week or > > two. If you do not have a Q-tank, then whichever tank you do keep the > > fish in should be kept VERY clean with daily 25% PWC's and possibly > > adding salt (if other fish are > > tolerant) or Melafix. > > > > There's always the chance that it wasn't a fight and that the fish > > simply injured the eye. Is there a chance this fish has been hiding a > > little more in the past week or so while the fight or accident injured > > eye sloughed off? > > An injured eye does NOT immediately disappear and it would usually > > take more than one nip during a fight to completely remove an eye. If > > there is no evidence of the damaged tissue and the eye socket is > > completely healed over, then the above may not be necessary. > > > > Is the fish eating and fending for itself during eating sessions so > > that it is getting it's fair share of food? That seems to be one of > > the problems that one-eyed fish have in zeroing in on floating food > > particles. All of us use our two eyes to triangulate in on things. > > This is what gives us our depth/distance perception capabilities. > > Sinking foods that stay still are easier for a one eyed fish to deal > > with. > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>> > (Links to any articles referenced in > > above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels > > and also under Archives by Year, Month) > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On Behalf Of Amber Berglund > > Sent: Thursday, July 30, 2009 9:39 PM > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > Subject: [AquaticLife] Missing Eye > > > > Is there anything I should do for a Ram with a missing eye? It doesn't > > look like it bothers him, he's still with his female and displaying, > > but I noticed when he turned around that one eye was missing. He must > > have gotten into a fight with another ram. Should I move a pair out of > > the tank into my > > 55 gallon? I figured with all the drift wood and caves/plants that > > there would be plenty of hiding places for the 3 pairs of rams in the > > 125 gallon tank but obviously someone got a little too territorial. > > > > Amber > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 42424	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 7/31/2009
Subject: Re: Burundi Frontosa

Here's a LONG 8 page thread all about Frontosas, including the Burundi variant. http://www.monsterfishkeepers.com/forums/showthread.php?t=162141 Here's a couple of pages from Mongabay, a very reliable source of info on fishes. http://biodiversity.mongabay.com/animals/c/Cyphotilapia_frontosa.html All about Lake Tanganyika cichlids, including Fronts. http://fish.mongabay.com/lake_tanganyika_cichlids.htm (General Info) http://fish.mongabay.com/lake_tanganyika_cichlids2.htm (Fish Profiles) The 3rd profile down on "cichlids2.htm" above is the profile and care sheet on Fronts. I hope you have a REALLY BIG tank or many 100G+ tanks as you will need them, Each of these fish will grow to 14" to 16" (males) and 10 to 12" (females) so even a couple of them would pretty much fill up a 100G tank. This blog article http://aquariumate.blogspot.com/2007/01/cyphotilapia-frontosa.html lists some very good references, so read over all the reference links and other links. It also has a lot of good info except for one section where it says a 500 liter tank would be suitable for 8-10 C. frontosas' which would be WAY TO SMALL IMO. A 500 liter tank would be around 130G and 10 frontosas would need 500G and possibly that wouldn't be big enough as all of the fish reach full size. As you see on the top link, Fronts are considered "Monster Fish". Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of xdee86x Sent: Friday, July 31, 2009 3:09 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Burundi Frontosa Hi, I have Burundi frontosas in my tank, there is 7 (2inch) and 5(1inch). If there is anyone who has these fish and no longer want them please please I will take them. Or even any information on them. Would be grateful ------------------------------------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the home page. Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com to receive the digest, which includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com for the No E-Mail option where you will still be able to read messages on the group and post replies. Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com to receive individual e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 42425	From: Courtland Jacob	Date: 7/31/2009
Subject: cleaning tips

hey guys anyone have experince with really small tanks, say like 2 gallon tanks, i recently sold off all the fish in my community tank except one fish which was one of the first fish i ever bought, but instead of keeping a big tank running just for him i bought a little two gallon tank took the gravel from the tank he was in along with some of the water and some brand new water, i love this little thing because you can put it pretty much anywhere, the question is how often do you clean something that small, how much water whould i change and do i need to vacuum the gravel, if so how?

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 42426	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 7/31/2009
Subject: Re: cleaning tips

I hope it's a small fish ;) LOL. Is it for a betta or something? You would still do the same maintenance as a bigger tank, unless you wanted to change water more often, just change smaller amounts, like 10% every few days or so. That way you don't change too much at once. They have smaller gravel vac's for cleaning smaller tanks but not sure how small they get. Perhaps just some rubber hosing (the kind made for filters) would work instead of a gravel vac? Amber Courtland Jacob wrote: > > > hey guys anyone have experince with really small tanks, say like 2 > gallon tanks, i recently sold off all the fish in my community tank > except one fish which was one of the first fish i ever bought, but > instead of keeping a big tank running just for him i bought a little > two gallon tank took the gravel from the tank he was in along with > some of the water and some brand new water, i love this little thing > because you can put it pretty much anywhere, the question is how often > do you clean something that small, how much water whould i change and > do i need to vacuum the gravel, if so how? > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 42427	From: Donna Ransome	Date: 7/31/2009
Subject: Re: cleaning tips

I would do the same, just in proportion. What fish can you keep in a 2G tank? _____ From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Courtland Jacob Sent: Friday, July 31, 2009 7:36 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] cleaning tips hey guys anyone have experince with really small tanks, say like 2 gallon tanks, i recently sold off all the fish in my community tank except one fish which was one of the first fish i ever bought, but instead of keeping a big tank running just for him i bought a little two gallon tank took the gravel from the tank he was in along with some of the water and some brand new water, i love this little thing because you can put it pretty much anywhere, the question is how often do you clean something that small, how much water whould i change and do i need to vacuum the gravel, if so how? [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 42428	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 7/31/2009
Subject: Re: cleaning tips

What kind of fish do you have? A Betta or other single fish that stays under 2" and is a slow swimmer would be about all that would work long term in a 2G tank. The maintenance would depend on the bioload. If you have a single fish that would be considered a heavy bioload for a 2G tank, you might need to two or three 25% PWC's and tank maintenance each week. If reasonably stocked, then you could do weekly 25% PWC's and tank maintenance. Tank maintenance includes gravel vacuuming and proper filter cleaning/maintenance. With a tank that small, it's also important to know your tap water baseline chemistry and keep it in a room that has a stabile tropical temperature or if a cool water fish, then the proper room temperature since they do not make heaters that work very accurately in smaller tanks like that so you will need to rely on ambient (room) temperature to keep the water temperature stabile. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Courtland Jacob Sent: Friday, July 31, 2009 6:36 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] cleaning tips hey guys anyone have experince with really small tanks, say like 2 gallon tanks, i recently sold off all the fish in my community tank except one fish which was one of the first fish i ever bought, but instead of keeping a big tank running just for him i bought a little two gallon tank took the gravel from the tank he was in along with some of the water and some brand new water, i love this little thing because you can put it pretty much anywhere, the question is how often do you clean something that small, how much water whould i change and do i need to vacuum the gravel, if so how?

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 42429	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 7/31/2009
Subject: Re: Missing Eye

If it was me, I'd probably play it by ear since I know my tanks are reasonably healthy but if you have a H-tank you can set up, then it probably would be better to set it up. Add a decoration or a potted plant and some stalks of Anacharis weighted down to give them some cover and then treat it with either salt or Melafix for a week and then re-assess. Set up the H-tank with 100% of the current tanks water but then do a series of daily 25% PWC's to improve water quality. If you choose Melafix, follow the directions. If you choose salt, then slowly (over the course of 24 hours... in three 1/3rd doses... bring the salt level up to .2% or .3% (2 teaspoons or 3 teaspoons per gallon). Read this article for more details on salt treatment http://www.skepticalaquarist.com/docs/health/salt.shtml. How long has it been since you've had a disease/parasite issue in that tank? The damaged eye may very well heal up perfectly fine on it's own in your display tank if the tank is healthy and you do more frequent PWC's to keep the water quality in excellent condition. Since you've been working long hours, it would be much easier to do daily PWC's, dose meds and monitor the fish in a 10G H-tank than it would in your BIG tank. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Amber Berglund Sent: Friday, July 31, 2009 4:27 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Missing Eye Okay, the whole eye doesn't appear to be missing, I got a closer look at him. It has yet to "fall off" so to speak, and the whole eye doesn't appear damaged, perhaps he ran into something instead of fighting. Should I still move him if he's eating okay and not getting picked on? Should I dose with melafix if I move him or wait until the dead cells fall off? Amber Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > > > Yep. That's a BIG reason for using a Q-tank or H-tank when treating fish. > It's a heck of a lot cheaper to treat a 10G tank than a much larger > display tank. > > If it looks like the eye is fully healed with no damaged tissue in the > eye socket, then the injury likely happened several days to a week or so ago. > It may be too late to worry about medicating, if it's already healed up. > Just keep a closer eye on them to make sure they aren't fighting. > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> (Links to any articles referenced in > above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels > and also under Archives by Year, Month) > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On Behalf Of Amber Berglund > Sent: Friday, July 31, 2009 9:47 AM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Missing Eye > > I think his mate helps him, they are not often spotted in separate > spots in the tank at least. But he may have been hiding a little > (there are lots of hiding places in that tank). How do I know if it is > healed? It does not look fuzzy or anything, just an empty eye socket > and it's white in color where the eye is missing. He was eating when I > fed the tank last night, that's how I noticed he was missing an eye, > he turned to get some food and turned his missing eye towards me. I > have an empty Q tank... somewhere, LOL. The filter is cycled on my 55 > gallon. I'm just worried that it would stress them out to move them > into a 10 gallon with no plants/decorations. I can't add salt to the > 125 gallon as there are Cory's in it and I think they would mind ;) I > could add melafix to the whole 125 gallon but that's a lot of melafix > ;) LOL. > > Amber > > Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > > > > > > There's always a chance for infection. If you have an open > > quarantine tank, I would move it (or the pair) to the Q-tank and > > then treat it with either salt or a mild antibacterial like Melafix > > for a week or two. If you do not have a Q-tank, then whichever tank > > you do keep the fish in should be kept VERY clean with daily 25% > > PWC's and possibly adding salt (if other fish are > > tolerant) or Melafix. > > > > There's always the chance that it wasn't a fight and that the fish > > simply injured the eye. Is there a chance this fish has been hiding > > a little more in the past week or so while the fight or accident > > injured eye sloughed off? > > An injured eye does NOT immediately disappear and it would usually > > take more than one nip during a fight to completely remove an eye. > > If there is no evidence of the damaged tissue and the eye socket is > > completely healed over, then the above may not be necessary. > > > > Is the fish eating and fending for itself during eating sessions so > > that it is getting it's fair share of food? That seems to be one of > > the problems that one-eyed fish have in zeroing in on floating food > > particles. All of us use our two eyes to triangulate in on things. > > This is what gives us our depth/distance perception capabilities. > > Sinking foods that stay still are easier for a one eyed fish to deal > > with. > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>> > (Links to any articles referenced in > > above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under > > Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On Behalf Of Amber Berglund > > Sent: Thursday, July 30, 2009 9:39 PM > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > Subject: [AquaticLife] Missing Eye > > > > Is there anything I should do for a Ram with a missing eye? It > > doesn't look like it bothers him, he's still with his female and > > displaying, but I noticed when he turned around that one eye was > > missing. He must have gotten into a fight with another ram. Should I > > move a pair out of the tank into my > > 55 gallon? I figured with all the drift wood and caves/plants that > > there would be plenty of hiding places for the 3 pairs of rams in > > the > > 125 gallon tank but obviously someone got a little too territorial. > > > > Amber

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 42430	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 7/31/2009
Subject: Re: Missing Eye

Well besides the mysterious death or two the past couple of months (fish was whole, untouched, nothing looked wrong, but dead), but all the fish I lost were older fish from the LFS, so no idea how old they really were, I haven't had any health issues since my last ich outbreak this winter. I run the UV filter every now and then, I just unplugged it about a week ago I think. The filters were all cleaned last weekend/week so I will be cleaning them this weekend, and I did a PWC of about 20% a couple of days ago, and one about a week ago. I do PWC's regularly even though it's a walstad tank since the tank is so large I figure I'm not removing too much with smaller water changes (natural planted walstad tanks normally have water changes like once every 6 months or so, but I don't generally feel that fish want to be in the same water for that long, LOL). Amber Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > > > If it was me, I'd probably play it by ear since I know my tanks are > reasonably healthy but if you have a H-tank you can set up, then it > probably > would be better to set it up. Add a decoration or a potted plant and some > stalks of Anacharis weighted down to give them some cover and then > treat it > with either salt or Melafix for a week and then re-assess. Set up the > H-tank with 100% of the current tanks water but then do a series of daily > 25% PWC's to improve water quality. If you choose Melafix, follow the > directions. If you choose salt, then slowly (over the course of 24 > hours... > in three 1/3rd doses... bring the salt level up to .2% or .3% (2 teaspoons > or 3 teaspoons per gallon). > > Read this article for more details on salt treatment > http://www.skepticalaquarist.com/docs/health/salt.shtml. > <http://www.skepticalaquarist.com/docs/health/salt.shtml.> > > How long has it been since you've had a disease/parasite issue in that > tank? > The damaged eye may very well heal up perfectly fine on it's own in your > display tank if the tank is healthy and you do more frequent PWC's to keep > the water quality in excellent condition. > > Since you've been working long hours, it would be much easier to do daily > PWC's, dose meds and monitor the fish in a 10G H-tank than it would in > your > BIG tank. > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right > side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On > Behalf Of Amber Berglund > Sent: Friday, July 31, 2009 4:27 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Missing Eye > > Okay, the whole eye doesn't appear to be missing, I got a closer look at > him. It has yet to "fall off" so to speak, and the whole eye doesn't > appear > damaged, perhaps he ran into something instead of fighting. > Should I still move him if he's eating okay and not getting picked on? > Should I dose with melafix if I move him or wait until the dead cells fall > off? > > Amber > > Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > > > > > > Yep. That's a BIG reason for using a Q-tank or H-tank when treating > fish. > > It's a heck of a lot cheaper to treat a 10G tank than a much larger > > display tank. > > > > If it looks like the eye is fully healed with no damaged tissue in the > > eye socket, then the injury likely happened several days to a week or so > ago. > > It may be too late to worry about medicating, if it's already healed up. > > Just keep a closer eye on them to make sure they aren't fighting. > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>> > (Links to any articles referenced in > > above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels > > and also under Archives by Year, Month) > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On Behalf Of Amber Berglund > > Sent: Friday, July 31, 2009 9:47 AM > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Missing Eye > > > > I think his mate helps him, they are not often spotted in separate > > spots in the tank at least. But he may have been hiding a little > > (there are lots of hiding places in that tank). How do I know if it is > > healed? It does not look fuzzy or anything, just an empty eye socket > > and it's white in color where the eye is missing. He was eating when I > > fed the tank last night, that's how I noticed he was missing an eye, > > he turned to get some food and turned his missing eye towards me. I > > have an empty Q tank... somewhere, LOL. The filter is cycled on my 55 > > gallon. I'm just worried that it would stress them out to move them > > into a 10 gallon with no plants/decorations. I can't add salt to the > > 125 gallon as there are Cory's in it and I think they would mind ;) I > > could add melafix to the whole 125 gallon but that's a lot of melafix > > ;) LOL. > > > > Amber > > > > Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > > > > > > > > > There's always a chance for infection. If you have an open > > > quarantine tank, I would move it (or the pair) to the Q-tank and > > > then treat it with either salt or a mild antibacterial like Melafix > > > for a week or two. If you do not have a Q-tank, then whichever tank > > > you do keep the fish in should be kept VERY clean with daily 25% > > > PWC's and possibly adding salt (if other fish are > > > tolerant) or Melafix. > > > > > > There's always the chance that it wasn't a fight and that the fish > > > simply injured the eye. Is there a chance this fish has been hiding > > > a little more in the past week or so while the fight or accident > > > injured eye sloughed off? > > > An injured eye does NOT immediately disappear and it would usually > > > take more than one nip during a fight to completely remove an eye. > > > If there is no evidence of the damaged tissue and the eye socket is > > > completely healed over, then the above may not be necessary. > > > > > > Is the fish eating and fending for itself during eating sessions so > > > that it is getting it's fair share of food? That seems to be one of > > > the problems that one-eyed fish have in zeroing in on floating food > > > particles. All of us use our two eyes to triangulate in on things. > > > This is what gives us our depth/distance perception capabilities. > > > Sinking foods that stay still are easier for a one eyed fish to deal > > > with. > > > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>> > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>>> > > (Links to any articles referenced in > > > above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under > > > Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On Behalf Of Amber Berglund > > > Sent: Thursday, July 30, 2009 9:39 PM > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > Subject: [AquaticLife] Missing Eye > > > > > > Is there anything I should do for a Ram with a missing eye? It > > > doesn't look like it bothers him, he's still with his female and > > > displaying, but I noticed when he turned around that one eye was > > > missing. He must have gotten into a fight with another ram. Should I > > > move a pair out of the tank into my > > > 55 gallon? I figured with all the drift wood and caves/plants that > > > there would be plenty of hiding places for the 3 pairs of rams in > > > the > > > 125 gallon tank but obviously someone got a little too territorial. > > > > > > Amber > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 42431	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 7/31/2009
Subject: Snail love

So I caught two of my mystery snails (magenta and a purple) mating, I thought the magenta one (female) looked frustrated by it as she was trying to get to the surface for air and the male was weighing her down, so I picked them both up and the male slowly released her. Not sure if it was a bad thing to do or not, I wasn't sure if the other one was just hitching a ride and was in a bad spot for it ;) They do that now and then. I've witnessed 2 of the purple ones mating in the past but they stayed in one spot for it mostly, one didn't try to go for a walk ;) LOL. I thought it was odd that they were mating and yet the female wanted to take a walk at the same time ;) Just shows that male/female snails don't always think alike too ;) LOL Amber

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 42432	From: biG poppa	Date: 7/31/2009
Subject: Re: Snail love

spamber you should never get involve in snail love....bad bad bad ..lol --- On Fri, 7/31/09, Amber Berglund <arberglund@...> wrote: From: Amber Berglund <arberglund@...> Subject: [AquaticLife] Snail love To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Date: Friday, July 31, 2009, 9:43 PM   So I caught two of my mystery snails (magenta and a purple) mating, I thought the magenta one (female) looked frustrated by it as she was trying to get to the surface for air and the male was weighing her down, so I picked them both up and the male slowly released her. Not sure if it was a bad thing to do or not, I wasn't sure if the other one was just hitching a ride and was in a bad spot for it ;) They do that now and then. I've witnessed 2 of the purple ones mating in the past but they stayed in one spot for it mostly, one didn't try to go for a walk ;) LOL. I thought it was odd that they were mating and yet the female wanted to take a walk at the same time ;) Just shows that male/female snails don't always think alike too ;) LOL Amber [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 42433	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 7/31/2009
Subject: Re: Snail love

Well I wasn't sure if they were really mating or not, the male had his tentacles in and mouth in his shell, he was just stuck to the side of the other snail and I couldn't see any details so I wasn't sure what was going on. I only picked them up to check and that's when the male let go, they really don't like human touching I swear ;) LOL I put my hand in the tank and they drop to the bottom too, sensitive little critters. Amber biG poppa wrote: > > > spamber you should never get involve in snail love....bad bad bad ..lol > > --- On Fri, 7/31/09, Amber Berglund <arberglund@... > <mailto:arberglund%40gmail.com>> wrote: > > From: Amber Berglund <arberglund@... > <mailto:arberglund%40gmail.com>> > Subject: [AquaticLife] Snail love > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Date: Friday, July 31, 2009, 9:43 PM > > > > So I caught two of my mystery snails (magenta and a purple) mating, I > thought the magenta one (female) looked frustrated by it as she was > trying to get to the surface for air and the male was weighing her down, > so I picked them both up and the male slowly released her. Not sure if > it was a bad thing to do or not, I wasn't sure if the other one was just > hitching a ride and was in a bad spot for it ;) They do that now and then. > I've witnessed 2 of the purple ones mating in the past but they stayed > in one spot for it mostly, one didn't try to go for a walk ;) LOL. I > thought it was odd that they were mating and yet the female wanted to > take a walk at the same time ;) Just shows that male/female snails don't > always think alike too ;) LOL > > Amber > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 42434	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 7/31/2009
Subject: Heat issues (in Alaska?)

Okay so the weather has been horridly warm this week and has caused my house temps to go over 90 at times (which raises all the temps in the fish tanks of course). I have only one air pump/stone so I put it in the 125 gallon. I'm going out to the fish store tomorrow to pick up another pump/hose/air stone to put in my 55 gallon upstairs. The Angel's don't seem to have issues, their tank hasn't gone over 80, but the 125 gallon has been 82-85 maybe higher (the thermometer stops at 85), I have been adding floating ice/frozen objects to the tank to help lower the temps (doesn't help more than lower it 1 degree or so, but it helps at least). The fish in the 125 gallon seem okay though, especially since I turned on the 4 foot air stone in the tank to add some oxygen just in case, even though I have so many filters going I wanted to make sure the Hillstream loaches have enough oxygen too. Fish in the 55 gallon upstairs are showing signs of oxygen stress though and the tank hasn't even gone over 80. This is why I'm going to get another airstone for this tank just in case this happens again. I have every window open, every fan going in every window and sitting on surfaces, just to try to get a breeze going through the house, this weather his HORRIBLE. It was 91 on wednesday! I moved here to get away from high temps, sheesh! I've lost one guppy in the 55 gallon, but I don't know if the males just harassed her too much (though they haven't done much of that since the temps went up), but I've noticed that some of the fish in the 55 gallon look bloated. Would higher temps cause this or am I feeding wrong somehow? I haven't changed feeding habits except for the jello food I made a couple weeks ago, could this be causing bloat? I don't feed it every day, perhaps every other day and mix it with the normal foods I have on hand (frozen bloodworms, mysis, and brine shrimp, as well as flake foods, cyclopeze freeze dried, and shrimp pellets, occasionally I feed the sinking carnivore pellets too). I tried feeding carrots but no one wanted any ;) LOL I could just feed some peas to the tank (shelled peas that is), I think there's some in the freezer still. There are peas and green beans in the jello food mix already though. Amber

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 42435	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 7/31/2009
Subject: Re: Heat issues (in Alaska?)

I'm guessing you don't have Air Conditioning? They sell a small window A/C unit at Sears... probably at WalMart too... that runs on 120V for around $150.00 that would help cool things down. It won't get you down into the 70's but at least a lot cooler than the 90's. Put it in the upstairs room and then let thermodynamics do the circulation to cool off the whole condo (cooler air will head down the stairs as the warmer air makes its way back up to the room to be cooled off by the A/C unit. That's what I used when the power was out last hurricane season and in a single story home, it kept the main room in the 70's and with the use of fans, kept the other rooms in the low 80's. It's not designed to run full time at those kinds of temps but would certainly be handy when needed and you could plop it into the window and back out as needed. Lower the water level (or raise the HOB filter a little) so the waterfall creates more splashing. The added surface agitation will allow for more ingasing of O2 and also create a LOT more surface area to dissipate the heat and the added evaporation will also help cool down the tank. Air stones help too but the added surface agitation is the best thing as long as you have filters running as well. If you had a power outage, then the battery operated air stones work to circulate the water and create more surface agitation for O2 ingasing. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Amber Berglund Sent: Friday, July 31, 2009 9:09 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Heat issues (in Alaska?) Okay so the weather has been horridly warm this week and has caused my house temps to go over 90 at times (which raises all the temps in the fish tanks of course). I have only one air pump/stone so I put it in the 125 gallon. I'm going out to the fish store tomorrow to pick up another pump/hose/air stone to put in my 55 gallon upstairs. The Angel's don't seem to have issues, their tank hasn't gone over 80, but the 125 gallon has been 82-85 maybe higher (the thermometer stops at 85), I have been adding floating ice/frozen objects to the tank to help lower the temps (doesn't help more than lower it 1 degree or so, but it helps at least). The fish in the 125 gallon seem okay though, especially since I turned on the 4 foot air stone in the tank to add some oxygen just in case, even though I have so many filters going I wanted to make sure the Hillstream loaches have enough oxygen too. Fish in the 55 gallon upstairs are showing signs of oxygen stress though and the tank hasn't even gone over 80. This is why I'm going to get another airstone for this tank just in case this happens again. I have every window open, every fan going in every window and sitting on surfaces, just to try to get a breeze going through the house, this weather his HORRIBLE. It was 91 on wednesday! I moved here to get away from high temps, sheesh! I've lost one guppy in the 55 gallon, but I don't know if the males just harassed her too much (though they haven't done much of that since the temps went up), but I've noticed that some of the fish in the 55 gallon look bloated. Would higher temps cause this or am I feeding wrong somehow? I haven't changed feeding habits except for the jello food I made a couple weeks ago, could this be causing bloat? I don't feed it every day, perhaps every other day and mix it with the normal foods I have on hand (frozen bloodworms, mysis, and brine shrimp, as well as flake foods, cyclopeze freeze dried, and shrimp pellets, occasionally I feed the sinking carnivore pellets too). I tried feeding carrots but no one wanted any ;) LOL I could just feed some peas to the tank (shelled peas that is), I think there's some in the freezer still. There are peas and green beans in the jello food mix already though. Amber ------------------------------------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the home page. Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com to receive the digest, which includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com for the No E-Mail option where you will still be able to read messages on the group and post replies. Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com to receive individual e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 42436	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 7/31/2009
Subject: Re: Heat issues (in Alaska?)

Uhh Lenny, this is Alaska ;) They don't sell those here. They ordered 1 at sears and it's probably gone by now. All the ones at walmart are LONG gone, trust me, hubby works there ;) LOL I would have to order one and have it shipped in and by then the weather will change ;) Not to mention I have left/right sliding windows rather than up/down sliding windows, those AC units tend to be harder to find ;) I have the water level lowered already and the HOB splashing in, a lot of the fish hang out there and in the outflow from the rena filstar xp4. I could put another HOB on it, or I have a powerhead that I got in my last order from marinedepot.com that I was going to use for the hillstream loaches, not sure how powerfull it is off the top of my head, but I need more splashing right? Not water current... Amber Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > > > I'm guessing you don't have Air Conditioning? They sell a small window A/C > unit at Sears... probably at WalMart too... that runs on 120V for around > $150.00 that would help cool things down. It won't get you down into the > 70's but at least a lot cooler than the 90's. Put it in the upstairs room > and then let thermodynamics do the circulation to cool off the whole condo > (cooler air will head down the stairs as the warmer air makes its way back > up to the room to be cooled off by the A/C unit. That's what I used when > the power was out last hurricane season and in a single story home, it > kept > the main room in the 70's and with the use of fans, kept the other > rooms in > the low 80's. It's not designed to run full time at those kinds of temps > but would certainly be handy when needed and you could plop it into the > window and back out as needed. > > Lower the water level (or raise the HOB filter a little) so the waterfall > creates more splashing. The added surface agitation will allow for more > ingasing of O2 and also create a LOT more surface area to dissipate > the heat > and the added evaporation will also help cool down the tank. Air stones > help too but the added surface agitation is the best thing as long as you > have filters running as well. If you had a power outage, then the battery > operated air stones work to circulate the water and create more surface > agitation for O2 ingasing. > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right > side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On > Behalf Of Amber Berglund > Sent: Friday, July 31, 2009 9:09 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Subject: [AquaticLife] Heat issues (in Alaska?) > > Okay so the weather has been horridly warm this week and has caused my > house > temps to go over 90 at times (which raises all the temps in the fish tanks > of course). I have only one air pump/stone so I put it in the > 125 gallon. I'm going out to the fish store tomorrow to pick up another > pump/hose/air stone to put in my 55 gallon upstairs. The Angel's don't > seem > to have issues, their tank hasn't gone over 80, but the 125 gallon has > been > 82-85 maybe higher (the thermometer stops at 85), I have been adding > floating ice/frozen objects to the tank to help lower the temps (doesn't > help more than lower it 1 degree or so, but it helps at least). > The fish in the 125 gallon seem okay though, especially since I turned on > the 4 foot air stone in the tank to add some oxygen just in case, even > though I have so many filters going I wanted to make sure the Hillstream > loaches have enough oxygen too. > Fish in the 55 gallon upstairs are showing signs of oxygen stress > though and > the tank hasn't even gone over 80. This is why I'm going to get another > airstone for this tank just in case this happens again. > I have every window open, every fan going in every window and sitting on > surfaces, just to try to get a breeze going through the house, this > weather > his HORRIBLE. It was 91 on wednesday! I moved here to get away from high > temps, sheesh! > I've lost one guppy in the 55 gallon, but I don't know if the males just > harassed her too much (though they haven't done much of that since the > temps > went up), but I've noticed that some of the fish in the 55 gallon look > bloated. Would higher temps cause this or am I feeding wrong somehow? I > haven't changed feeding habits except for the jello food I made a couple > weeks ago, could this be causing bloat? I don't feed it every day, perhaps > every other day and mix it with the normal foods I have on hand (frozen > bloodworms, mysis, and brine shrimp, as well as flake foods, cyclopeze > freeze dried, and shrimp pellets, occasionally I feed the sinking > carnivore > pellets too). I tried feeding carrots but no one wanted any ;) LOL I could > just feed some peas to the tank (shelled peas that is), I think > there's some > in the freezer still. There are peas and green beans in the jello food mix > already though. > > Amber > > ------------------------------------ > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. > ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> > PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to > the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the > SUBJECT > LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- > <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. > > If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of unsubscribing, you > can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the > home page. > > Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:aquaticlife-digest%40yahoogroups.com> to receive the digest, which > includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email > > Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:aquaticlife-nomail%40yahoogroups.com> for the No E-Mail option > where > you will still be able to read messages on the group and post replies. > > Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:aquaticlife-normal%40yahoogroups.com> to receive individual > e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 42437	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 7/31/2009
Subject: Re: Heat issues (in Alaska?)

I have 4' wide by 3' tall slider windows in my house too and that little A/C unit fits in the 1/2 open (24" wide opening) with no problem and then have to close the window a little. Then I have a piece of plexiglass the fits from the top of the A/C unit to cover the opening above it that is also held in place when the slider is closed against the A/C unit. If you have any gaps you want to cover, duck tape works wonders but 2" or 3" wide painters tape would also work for short term use and be easier to remove. If you can get one, the next time there's a heat wave in Alaska, you'll have all the neighbors over... and you'll have happy fish too. If you have room in your freezer, freezing 1L and 2L bottles of water and then floating them in the tank(s) as needed will also help. If you have an automatic ice-maker, then filling zip-loc bags with ice and floating that will also help. If you use that other powerhead, just aim it so it's aiming up at the surface so that it creates a lot of surface agitation. That's how I have my spray bars from my Rena Filstars set up. I missed the last section about the bloated fish in your first post in this thread but saw it this time. I'm not sure that the warmer water would cause this or not but there's always a chance that the warmer water could cause some bacteria to grow faster while killing off other bacteria so it certainly could disrupt the digestive tract bacteria. The water temps could also stress out the fish more making them more susceptible to other issues. If you have fans, turn them on high. If you have floor fans or small desktop type fans, set them up so the air is blowing onto the surface of the agitated water. This will aid in evaporation (cooling) of the water. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Amber Berglund Sent: Friday, July 31, 2009 9:32 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Heat issues (in Alaska?) Uhh Lenny, this is Alaska ;) They don't sell those here. They ordered 1 at sears and it's probably gone by now. All the ones at walmart are LONG gone, trust me, hubby works there ;) LOL I would have to order one and have it shipped in and by then the weather will change ;) Not to mention I have left/right sliding windows rather than up/down sliding windows, those AC units tend to be harder to find ;) I have the water level lowered already and the HOB splashing in, a lot of the fish hang out there and in the outflow from the rena filstar xp4. I could put another HOB on it, or I have a powerhead that I got in my last order from marinedepot.com that I was going to use for the hillstream loaches, not sure how powerfull it is off the top of my head, but I need more splashing right? Not water current... Amber Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > > > I'm guessing you don't have Air Conditioning? They sell a small window > A/C unit at Sears... probably at WalMart too... that runs on 120V for > around $150.00 that would help cool things down. It won't get you down > into the 70's but at least a lot cooler than the 90's. Put it in the > upstairs room and then let thermodynamics do the circulation to cool > off the whole condo (cooler air will head down the stairs as the > warmer air makes its way back up to the room to be cooled off by the > A/C unit. That's what I used when the power was out last hurricane > season and in a single story home, it kept the main room in the 70's > and with the use of fans, kept the other rooms in the low 80's. It's > not designed to run full time at those kinds of temps but would > certainly be handy when needed and you could plop it into the window > and back out as needed. > > Lower the water level (or raise the HOB filter a little) so the > waterfall creates more splashing. The added surface agitation will > allow for more ingasing of O2 and also create a LOT more surface area > to dissipate the heat and the added evaporation will also help cool > down the tank. Air stones help too but the added surface agitation is > the best thing as long as you have filters running as well. If you had > a power outage, then the battery operated air stones work to circulate > the water and create more surface agitation for O2 ingasing. > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> (Links to any articles referenced in > above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels > and also under Archives by Year, Month) > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On Behalf Of Amber Berglund > Sent: Friday, July 31, 2009 9:09 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Subject: [AquaticLife] Heat issues (in Alaska?) > > Okay so the weather has been horridly warm this week and has caused my > house temps to go over 90 at times (which raises all the temps in the > fish tanks of course). I have only one air pump/stone so I put it in > the > 125 gallon. I'm going out to the fish store tomorrow to pick up > another pump/hose/air stone to put in my 55 gallon upstairs. The > Angel's don't seem to have issues, their tank hasn't gone over 80, but > the 125 gallon has been > 82-85 maybe higher (the thermometer stops at 85), I have been adding > floating ice/frozen objects to the tank to help lower the temps > (doesn't help more than lower it 1 degree or so, but it helps at least). > The fish in the 125 gallon seem okay though, especially since I turned > on the 4 foot air stone in the tank to add some oxygen just in case, > even though I have so many filters going I wanted to make sure the > Hillstream loaches have enough oxygen too. > Fish in the 55 gallon upstairs are showing signs of oxygen stress > though and the tank hasn't even gone over 80. This is why I'm going to > get another airstone for this tank just in case this happens again. > I have every window open, every fan going in every window and sitting > on surfaces, just to try to get a breeze going through the house, this > weather his HORRIBLE. It was 91 on wednesday! I moved here to get away > from high temps, sheesh! > I've lost one guppy in the 55 gallon, but I don't know if the males > just harassed her too much (though they haven't done much of that > since the temps went up), but I've noticed that some of the fish in > the 55 gallon look bloated. Would higher temps cause this or am I > feeding wrong somehow? I haven't changed feeding habits except for the > jello food I made a couple weeks ago, could this be causing bloat? I > don't feed it every day, perhaps every other day and mix it with the > normal foods I have on hand (frozen bloodworms, mysis, and brine > shrimp, as well as flake foods, cyclopeze freeze dried, and shrimp > pellets, occasionally I feed the sinking carnivore pellets too). I > tried feeding carrots but no one wanted any ;) LOL I could just feed > some peas to the tank (shelled peas that is), I think there's some in > the freezer still. There are peas and green beans in the jello food > mix already though. > > Amber

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 42438	From: pam andress	Date: 7/31/2009
Subject: Re: Heat issues (in Alaska?)

What about freezing some pop bottles. They would hold more ice and loose the cold slower then just ice cubes. Pam To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com From: GoldLenny@... Date: Fri, 31 Jul 2009 21:26:48 -0500 Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Heat issues (in Alaska?) I'm guessing you don't have Air Conditioning? They sell a small window A/C unit at Sears... probably at WalMart too... that runs on 120V for around $150.00 that would help cool things down. It won't get you down into the 70's but at least a lot cooler than the 90's. Put it in the upstairs room and then let thermodynamics do the circulation to cool off the whole condo (cooler air will head down the stairs as the warmer air makes its way back up to the room to be cooled off by the A/C unit. That's what I used when the power was out last hurricane season and in a single story home, it kept the main room in the 70's and with the use of fans, kept the other rooms in the low 80's. It's not designed to run full time at those kinds of temps but would certainly be handy when needed and you could plop it into the window and back out as needed. Lower the water level (or raise the HOB filter a little) so the waterfall creates more splashing. The added surface agitation will allow for more ingasing of O2 and also create a LOT more surface area to dissipate the heat and the added evaporation will also help cool down the tank. Air stones help too but the added surface agitation is the best thing as long as you have filters running as well. If you had a power outage, then the battery operated air stones work to circulate the water and create more surface agitation for O2 ingasing. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Amber Berglund Sent: Friday, July 31, 2009 9:09 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Heat issues (in Alaska?) Okay so the weather has been horridly warm this week and has caused my house temps to go over 90 at times (which raises all the temps in the fish tanks of course). I have only one air pump/stone so I put it in the 125 gallon. I'm going out to the fish store tomorrow to pick up another pump/hose/air stone to put in my 55 gallon upstairs. The Angel's don't seem to have issues, their tank hasn't gone over 80, but the 125 gallon has been 82-85 maybe higher (the thermometer stops at 85), I have been adding floating ice/frozen objects to the tank to help lower the temps (doesn't help more than lower it 1 degree or so, but it helps at least). The fish in the 125 gallon seem okay though, especially since I turned on the 4 foot air stone in the tank to add some oxygen just in case, even though I have so many filters going I wanted to make sure the Hillstream loaches have enough oxygen too. Fish in the 55 gallon upstairs are showing signs of oxygen stress though and the tank hasn't even gone over 80. This is why I'm going to get another airstone for this tank just in case this happens again. I have every window open, every fan going in every window and sitting on surfaces, just to try to get a breeze going through the house, this weather his HORRIBLE. It was 91 on wednesday! I moved here to get away from high temps, sheesh! I've lost one guppy in the 55 gallon, but I don't know if the males just harassed her too much (though they haven't done much of that since the temps went up), but I've noticed that some of the fish in the 55 gallon look bloated. Would higher temps cause this or am I feeding wrong somehow? I haven't changed feeding habits except for the jello food I made a couple weeks ago, could this be causing bloat? I don't feed it every day, perhaps every other day and mix it with the normal foods I have on hand (frozen bloodworms, mysis, and brine shrimp, as well as flake foods, cyclopeze freeze dried, and shrimp pellets, occasionally I feed the sinking carnivore pellets too). I tried feeding carrots but no one wanted any ;) LOL I could just feed some peas to the tank (shelled peas that is), I think there's some in the freezer still. There are peas and green beans in the jello food mix already though. Amber ------------------------------------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the home page. Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com to receive the digest, which includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com for the No E-Mail option where you will still be able to read messages on the group and post replies. Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com to receive individual e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 42439	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 7/31/2009
Subject: Re: Heat issues (in Alaska?)

Well I did something right without even knowing it ;) LOL. I put a fan in the window behind the 55 gallon blowing in, over the top of the fish tank (the tank is open with no cover, so the fan is blowing right over the top of the water), I've already noticed surface disturbance from the fan. I did this about an hour ago ;) I can turn the outflow from the rena so it points upwards more, it's slightly upwards but not that far. Amber Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > > > I have 4' wide by 3' tall slider windows in my house too and that > little A/C > unit fits in the 1/2 open (24" wide opening) with no problem and then have > to close the window a little. Then I have a piece of plexiglass the fits > from the top of the A/C unit to cover the opening above it that is > also held > in place when the slider is closed against the A/C unit. If you have any > gaps you want to cover, duck tape works wonders but 2" or 3" wide painters > tape would also work for short term use and be easier to remove. > > If you can get one, the next time there's a heat wave in Alaska, > you'll have > all the neighbors over... and you'll have happy fish too. > > If you have room in your freezer, freezing 1L and 2L bottles of water and > then floating them in the tank(s) as needed will also help. If you have an > automatic ice-maker, then filling zip-loc bags with ice and floating that > will also help. > > If you use that other powerhead, just aim it so it's aiming up at the > surface so that it creates a lot of surface agitation. That's how I > have my > spray bars from my Rena Filstars set up. > > I missed the last section about the bloated fish in your first post in > this > thread but saw it this time. I'm not sure that the warmer water would > cause > this or not but there's always a chance that the warmer water could cause > some bacteria to grow faster while killing off other bacteria so it > certainly could disrupt the digestive tract bacteria. The water temps > could > also stress out the fish more making them more susceptible to other > issues. > > If you have fans, turn them on high. If you have floor fans or small > desktop type fans, set them up so the air is blowing onto the surface > of the > agitated water. This will aid in evaporation (cooling) of the water. > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right > side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On > Behalf Of Amber Berglund > Sent: Friday, July 31, 2009 9:32 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Heat issues (in Alaska?) > > Uhh Lenny, this is Alaska ;) They don't sell those here. > They ordered 1 at sears and it's probably gone by now. All the ones at > walmart are LONG gone, trust me, hubby works there ;) LOL I would have to > order one and have it shipped in and by then the weather will change > ;) Not > to mention I have left/right sliding windows rather than up/down sliding > windows, those AC units tend to be harder to find ;) I have the water > level > lowered already and the HOB splashing in, a lot of the fish hang out there > and in the outflow from the rena filstar xp4. > I could put another HOB on it, or I have a powerhead that I got in my last > order from marinedepot.com that I was going to use for the hillstream > loaches, not sure how powerfull it is off the top of my head, but I need > more splashing right? Not water current... > > Amber > > Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > > > > > > I'm guessing you don't have Air Conditioning? They sell a small window > > A/C unit at Sears... probably at WalMart too... that runs on 120V for > > around $150.00 that would help cool things down. It won't get you down > > into the 70's but at least a lot cooler than the 90's. Put it in the > > upstairs room and then let thermodynamics do the circulation to cool > > off the whole condo (cooler air will head down the stairs as the > > warmer air makes its way back up to the room to be cooled off by the > > A/C unit. That's what I used when the power was out last hurricane > > season and in a single story home, it kept the main room in the 70's > > and with the use of fans, kept the other rooms in the low 80's. It's > > not designed to run full time at those kinds of temps but would > > certainly be handy when needed and you could plop it into the window > > and back out as needed. > > > > Lower the water level (or raise the HOB filter a little) so the > > waterfall creates more splashing. The added surface agitation will > > allow for more ingasing of O2 and also create a LOT more surface area > > to dissipate the heat and the added evaporation will also help cool > > down the tank. Air stones help too but the added surface agitation is > > the best thing as long as you have filters running as well. If you had > > a power outage, then the battery operated air stones work to circulate > > the water and create more surface agitation for O2 ingasing. > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>> > (Links to any articles referenced in > > above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels > > and also under Archives by Year, Month) > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On Behalf Of Amber Berglund > > Sent: Friday, July 31, 2009 9:09 PM > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > Subject: [AquaticLife] Heat issues (in Alaska?) > > > > Okay so the weather has been horridly warm this week and has caused my > > house temps to go over 90 at times (which raises all the temps in the > > fish tanks of course). I have only one air pump/stone so I put it in > > the > > 125 gallon. I'm going out to the fish store tomorrow to pick up > > another pump/hose/air stone to put in my 55 gallon upstairs. The > > Angel's don't seem to have issues, their tank hasn't gone over 80, but > > the 125 gallon has been > > 82-85 maybe higher (the thermometer stops at 85), I have been adding > > floating ice/frozen objects to the tank to help lower the temps > > (doesn't help more than lower it 1 degree or so, but it helps at least). > > The fish in the 125 gallon seem okay though, especially since I turned > > on the 4 foot air stone in the tank to add some oxygen just in case, > > even though I have so many filters going I wanted to make sure the > > Hillstream loaches have enough oxygen too. > > Fish in the 55 gallon upstairs are showing signs of oxygen stress > > though and the tank hasn't even gone over 80. This is why I'm going to > > get another airstone for this tank just in case this happens again. > > I have every window open, every fan going in every window and sitting > > on surfaces, just to try to get a breeze going through the house, this > > weather his HORRIBLE. It was 91 on wednesday! I moved here to get away > > from high temps, sheesh! > > I've lost one guppy in the 55 gallon, but I don't know if the males > > just harassed her too much (though they haven't done much of that > > since the temps went up), but I've noticed that some of the fish in > > the 55 gallon look bloated. Would higher temps cause this or am I > > feeding wrong somehow? I haven't changed feeding habits except for the > > jello food I made a couple weeks ago, could this be causing bloat? I > > don't feed it every day, perhaps every other day and mix it with the > > normal foods I have on hand (frozen bloodworms, mysis, and brine > > shrimp, as well as flake foods, cyclopeze freeze dried, and shrimp > > pellets, occasionally I feed the sinking carnivore pellets too). I > > tried feeding carrots but no one wanted any ;) LOL I could just feed > > some peas to the tank (shelled peas that is), I think there's some in > > the freezer still. There are peas and green beans in the jello food > > mix already though. > > > > Amber > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 42440	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 7/31/2009
Subject: Re: Heat issues (in Alaska?)

Remember that during all of this, you'll have to top off your tanks, as needed, as they will lose a LOT more water to evaporation and when un-covered, compared to a covered tank with less surface agitation. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Amber Berglund Sent: Friday, July 31, 2009 9:52 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Heat issues (in Alaska?) Well I did something right without even knowing it ;) LOL. I put a fan in the window behind the 55 gallon blowing in, over the top of the fish tank (the tank is open with no cover, so the fan is blowing right over the top of the water), I've already noticed surface disturbance from the fan. I did this about an hour ago ;) I can turn the outflow from the rena so it points upwards more, it's slightly upwards but not that far. Amber Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > > > I have 4' wide by 3' tall slider windows in my house too and that > little A/C unit fits in the 1/2 open (24" wide opening) with no > problem and then have to close the window a little. Then I have a > piece of plexiglass the fits from the top of the A/C unit to cover the > opening above it that is also held in place when the slider is closed > against the A/C unit. If you have any gaps you want to cover, duck > tape works wonders but 2" or 3" wide painters tape would also work for > short term use and be easier to remove. > > If you can get one, the next time there's a heat wave in Alaska, > you'll have all the neighbors over... and you'll have happy fish too. > > If you have room in your freezer, freezing 1L and 2L bottles of water > and then floating them in the tank(s) as needed will also help. If you > have an automatic ice-maker, then filling zip-loc bags with ice and > floating that will also help. > > If you use that other powerhead, just aim it so it's aiming up at the > surface so that it creates a lot of surface agitation. That's how I > have my spray bars from my Rena Filstars set up. > > I missed the last section about the bloated fish in your first post in > this thread but saw it this time. I'm not sure that the warmer water > would cause this or not but there's always a chance that the warmer > water could cause some bacteria to grow faster while killing off other > bacteria so it certainly could disrupt the digestive tract bacteria. > The water temps could also stress out the fish more making them more > susceptible to other issues. > > If you have fans, turn them on high. If you have floor fans or small > desktop type fans, set them up so the air is blowing onto the surface > of the agitated water. This will aid in evaporation (cooling) of the > water. > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> (Links to any articles referenced in > above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels > and also under Archives by Year, Month) > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On Behalf Of Amber Berglund > Sent: Friday, July 31, 2009 9:32 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Heat issues (in Alaska?) > > Uhh Lenny, this is Alaska ;) They don't sell those here. > They ordered 1 at sears and it's probably gone by now. All the ones at > walmart are LONG gone, trust me, hubby works there ;) LOL I would have > to order one and have it shipped in and by then the weather will > change > ;) Not > to mention I have left/right sliding windows rather than up/down > sliding windows, those AC units tend to be harder to find ;) I have > the water level lowered already and the HOB splashing in, a lot of the > fish hang out there and in the outflow from the rena filstar xp4. > I could put another HOB on it, or I have a powerhead that I got in my > last order from marinedepot.com that I was going to use for the > hillstream loaches, not sure how powerfull it is off the top of my > head, but I need more splashing right? Not water current... > > Amber > > Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > > > > > > I'm guessing you don't have Air Conditioning? They sell a small > > window A/C unit at Sears... probably at WalMart too... that runs on > > 120V for around $150.00 that would help cool things down. It won't > > get you down into the 70's but at least a lot cooler than the 90's. > > Put it in the upstairs room and then let thermodynamics do the > > circulation to cool off the whole condo (cooler air will head down > > the stairs as the warmer air makes its way back up to the room to be > > cooled off by the A/C unit. That's what I used when the power was > > out last hurricane season and in a single story home, it kept the > > main room in the 70's and with the use of fans, kept the other rooms > > in the low 80's. It's not designed to run full time at those kinds > > of temps but would certainly be handy when needed and you could plop > > it into the window and back out as needed. > > > > Lower the water level (or raise the HOB filter a little) so the > > waterfall creates more splashing. The added surface agitation will > > allow for more ingasing of O2 and also create a LOT more surface > > area to dissipate the heat and the added evaporation will also help > > cool down the tank. Air stones help too but the added surface > > agitation is the best thing as long as you have filters running as > > well. If you had a power outage, then the battery operated air > > stones work to circulate the water and create more surface agitation for O2 ingasing. > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>> > (Links to any articles referenced in > > above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under > > Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On Behalf Of Amber Berglund > > Sent: Friday, July 31, 2009 9:09 PM > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > Subject: [AquaticLife] Heat issues (in Alaska?) > > > > Okay so the weather has been horridly warm this week and has caused > > my house temps to go over 90 at times (which raises all the temps in > > the fish tanks of course). I have only one air pump/stone so I put > > it in the > > 125 gallon. I'm going out to the fish store tomorrow to pick up > > another pump/hose/air stone to put in my 55 gallon upstairs. The > > Angel's don't seem to have issues, their tank hasn't gone over 80, > > but the 125 gallon has been > > 82-85 maybe higher (the thermometer stops at 85), I have been adding > > floating ice/frozen objects to the tank to help lower the temps > > (doesn't help more than lower it 1 degree or so, but it helps at least). > > The fish in the 125 gallon seem okay though, especially since I > > turned on the 4 foot air stone in the tank to add some oxygen just > > in case, even though I have so many filters going I wanted to make > > sure the Hillstream loaches have enough oxygen too. > > Fish in the 55 gallon upstairs are showing signs of oxygen stress > > though and the tank hasn't even gone over 80. This is why I'm going > > to get another airstone for this tank just in case this happens again. > > I have every window open, every fan going in every window and > > sitting on surfaces, just to try to get a breeze going through the > > house, this weather his HORRIBLE. It was 91 on wednesday! I moved > > here to get away from high temps, sheesh! > > I've lost one guppy in the 55 gallon, but I don't know if the males > > just harassed her too much (though they haven't done much of that > > since the temps went up), but I've noticed that some of the fish in > > the 55 gallon look bloated. Would higher temps cause this or am I > > feeding wrong somehow? I haven't changed feeding habits except for > > the jello food I made a couple weeks ago, could this be causing > > bloat? I don't feed it every day, perhaps every other day and mix it > > with the normal foods I have on hand (frozen bloodworms, mysis, and > > brine shrimp, as well as flake foods, cyclopeze freeze dried, and > > shrimp pellets, occasionally I feed the sinking carnivore pellets > > too). I tried feeding carrots but no one wanted any ;) LOL I could > > just feed some peas to the tank (shelled peas that is), I think > > there's some in the freezer still. There are peas and green beans in > > the jello food mix already though. > > > > Amber

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 42441	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 7/31/2009
Subject: Re: Heat issues (in Alaska?)

Amber, I do not think we have had one day where it hit 90 here, and, normally, we would have had more than a few. So nice of you to take those temperatures on from us <g>. Also, avoid going on the tundra, you may have the tendency to sink into the ground. You have not mentioned turning off your lights, a heat source.. You may also want, especially if your plants need the light, raise your hoods off the aquariums, and point some of those fans at the gap you have now created. Evaporation will help bring the temperature down. If you have any spray bars with your filtration, you might want to raise them, and/or lower the water level. This will serve two purposes. First, it will help evaporate the water, and second, it will help to saturate the water with atmospheric gases, including oxygen. Keep adding frozen, protected, stuff to your tanks to help cool the water. \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Amber Berglund Sent: Friday, July 31, 2009 10:09 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Heat issues (in Alaska?) Okay so the weather has been horridly warm this week and has caused my house temps to go over 90 at times (which raises all the temps in the fish tanks of course). I have only one air pump/stone so I put it in the 125 gallon. I'm going out to the fish store tomorrow to pick up another pump/hose/air stone to put in my 55 gallon upstairs. The Angel's don't seem to have issues, their tank hasn't gone over 80, but the 125 gallon has been 82-85 maybe higher (the thermometer stops at 85), I have been adding floating ice/frozen objects to the tank to help lower the temps (doesn't help more than lower it 1 degree or so, but it helps at least). The fish in the 125 gallon seem okay though, especially since I turned on the 4 foot air stone in the tank to add some oxygen just in case, even though I have so many filters going I wanted to make sure the Hillstream loaches have enough oxygen too. Fish in the 55 gallon upstairs are showing signs of oxygen stress though and the tank hasn't even gone over 80. This is why I'm going to get another airstone for this tank just in case this happens again. I have every window open, every fan going in every window and sitting on surfaces, just to try to get a breeze going through the house, this weather his HORRIBLE. It was 91 on wednesday! I moved here to get away from high temps, sheesh! I've lost one guppy in the 55 gallon, but I don't know if the males just harassed her too much (though they haven't done much of that since the temps went up), but I've noticed that some of the fish in the 55 gallon look bloated. Would higher temps cause this or am I feeding wrong somehow? I haven't changed feeding habits except for the jello food I made a couple weeks ago, could this be causing bloat? I don't feed it every day, perhaps every other day and mix it with the normal foods I have on hand (frozen bloodworms, mysis, and brine shrimp, as well as flake foods, cyclopeze freeze dried, and shrimp pellets, occasionally I feed the sinking carnivore pellets too). I tried feeding carrots but no one wanted any ;) LOL I could just feed some peas to the tank (shelled peas that is), I think there's some in the freezer still. There are peas and green beans in the jello food mix already though. Amber

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 42442	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 7/31/2009
Subject: Re: Heat issues (in Alaska?)

The lights already sit about 3 inches above the water on legs, so that wasn't an issue (heat from the lights) so much, plus with the fan blowing on the top of the tank in the space between and above the light it helps a lot cooling the tank down and giving some more oxygen to that side. The danio's are still acting oddly though. Would a water change help or hurt things? Amber Steve Szabo wrote: > > > Amber, > > I do not think we have had one day where it hit 90 here, and, normally, > we would have had more than a few. So nice of you to take those > temperatures on from us <g>. Also, avoid going on the tundra, you may > have the tendency to sink into the ground. > > You have not mentioned turning off your lights, a heat source.. You may > also want, especially if your plants need the light, raise your hoods > off the aquariums, and point some of those fans at the gap you have now > created. Evaporation will help bring the temperature down. > > If you have any spray bars with your filtration, you might want to raise > them, and/or lower the water level. This will serve two purposes. First, > it will help evaporate the water, and second, it will help to saturate > the water with atmospheric gases, including oxygen. > > Keep adding frozen, protected, stuff to your tanks to help cool the > water. > > \\Steve// > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] > On Behalf Of Amber Berglund > Sent: Friday, July 31, 2009 10:09 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Subject: [AquaticLife] Heat issues (in Alaska?) > > Okay so the weather has been horridly warm this week and has caused my > house temps to go over 90 at times (which raises all the temps in the > fish tanks of course). I have only one air pump/stone so I put it in the > > 125 gallon. I'm going out to the fish store tomorrow to pick up another > pump/hose/air stone to put in my 55 gallon upstairs. The Angel's don't > seem to have issues, their tank hasn't gone over 80, but the 125 gallon > has been 82-85 maybe higher (the thermometer stops at 85), I have been > adding floating ice/frozen objects to the tank to help lower the temps > (doesn't help more than lower it 1 degree or so, but it helps at least). > > The fish in the 125 gallon seem okay though, especially since I turned > on the 4 foot air stone in the tank to add some oxygen just in case, > even though I have so many filters going I wanted to make sure the > Hillstream loaches have enough oxygen too. > Fish in the 55 gallon upstairs are showing signs of oxygen stress though > > and the tank hasn't even gone over 80. This is why I'm going to get > another airstone for this tank just in case this happens again. > I have every window open, every fan going in every window and sitting on > > surfaces, just to try to get a breeze going through the house, this > weather his HORRIBLE. It was 91 on wednesday! I moved here to get away > from high temps, sheesh! > I've lost one guppy in the 55 gallon, but I don't know if the males just > > harassed her too much (though they haven't done much of that since the > temps went up), but I've noticed that some of the fish in the 55 gallon > look bloated. Would higher temps cause this or am I feeding wrong > somehow? I haven't changed feeding habits except for the jello food I > made a couple weeks ago, could this be causing bloat? I don't feed it > every day, perhaps every other day and mix it with the normal foods I > have on hand (frozen bloodworms, mysis, and brine shrimp, as well as > flake foods, cyclopeze freeze dried, and shrimp pellets, occasionally I > feed the sinking carnivore pellets too). I tried feeding carrots but no > one wanted any ;) LOL > I could just feed some peas to the tank (shelled peas that is), I think > there's some in the freezer still. There are peas and green beans in the > > jello food mix already though. > > Amber > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 42443	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 8/1/2009
Subject: Re: Heat issues (in Alaska?)

Zebra Danios are actually a cool water fish, sold as a tropical fish, so the warmer water is probably tougher on them. It almost never hurts to do a PWC. Just make sure your cold water incoming into the tank isn't more than 4F to 8F cooler than the tank so that a 25% PWC does not lower the temp by more than 1F to 2F. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Amber Berglund Sent: Friday, July 31, 2009 10:47 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Heat issues (in Alaska?) The lights already sit about 3 inches above the water on legs, so that wasn't an issue (heat from the lights) so much, plus with the fan blowing on the top of the tank in the space between and above the light it helps a lot cooling the tank down and giving some more oxygen to that side. The danio's are still acting oddly though. Would a water change help or hurt things? Amber Steve Szabo wrote: > > > Amber, > > I do not think we have had one day where it hit 90 here, and, > normally, we would have had more than a few. So nice of you to take > those temperatures on from us <g>. Also, avoid going on the tundra, > you may have the tendency to sink into the ground. > > You have not mentioned turning off your lights, a heat source.. You > may also want, especially if your plants need the light, raise your > hoods off the aquariums, and point some of those fans at the gap you > have now created. Evaporation will help bring the temperature down. > > If you have any spray bars with your filtration, you might want to > raise them, and/or lower the water level. This will serve two > purposes. First, it will help evaporate the water, and second, it will > help to saturate the water with atmospheric gases, including oxygen. > > Keep adding frozen, protected, stuff to your tanks to help cool the > water. > > \\Steve// > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] > On Behalf Of Amber Berglund > Sent: Friday, July 31, 2009 10:09 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Subject: [AquaticLife] Heat issues (in Alaska?) > > Okay so the weather has been horridly warm this week and has caused my > house temps to go over 90 at times (which raises all the temps in the > fish tanks of course). I have only one air pump/stone so I put it in > the > > 125 gallon. I'm going out to the fish store tomorrow to pick up > another pump/hose/air stone to put in my 55 gallon upstairs. The > Angel's don't seem to have issues, their tank hasn't gone over 80, but > the 125 gallon has been 82-85 maybe higher (the thermometer stops at > 85), I have been adding floating ice/frozen objects to the tank to > help lower the temps (doesn't help more than lower it 1 degree or so, but it helps at least). > > The fish in the 125 gallon seem okay though, especially since I turned > on the 4 foot air stone in the tank to add some oxygen just in case, > even though I have so many filters going I wanted to make sure the > Hillstream loaches have enough oxygen too. > Fish in the 55 gallon upstairs are showing signs of oxygen stress > though > > and the tank hasn't even gone over 80. This is why I'm going to get > another airstone for this tank just in case this happens again. > I have every window open, every fan going in every window and sitting > on > > surfaces, just to try to get a breeze going through the house, this > weather his HORRIBLE. It was 91 on wednesday! I moved here to get away > from high temps, sheesh! > I've lost one guppy in the 55 gallon, but I don't know if the males > just > > harassed her too much (though they haven't done much of that since the > temps went up), but I've noticed that some of the fish in the 55 > gallon look bloated. Would higher temps cause this or am I feeding > wrong somehow? I haven't changed feeding habits except for the jello > food I made a couple weeks ago, could this be causing bloat? I don't > feed it every day, perhaps every other day and mix it with the normal > foods I have on hand (frozen bloodworms, mysis, and brine shrimp, as > well as flake foods, cyclopeze freeze dried, and shrimp pellets, > occasionally I feed the sinking carnivore pellets too). I tried > feeding carrots but no one wanted any ;) LOL I could just feed some > peas to the tank (shelled peas that is), I think there's some in the > freezer still. There are peas and green beans in the > > jello food mix already though. > > Amber

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 42444	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 8/1/2009
Subject: Re: Heat issues (in Alaska?)

A water change would be appropriate. If the water is much cooler than the tank water, let it flow in slowly so as not to cause a rapid change in temperature and its attendant possible problems with the fish. Also, if you let it pour from a height, it will help aerate the water. \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Amber Berglund Sent: Friday, July 31, 2009 11:47 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Heat issues (in Alaska?) The lights already sit about 3 inches above the water on legs, so that wasn't an issue (heat from the lights) so much, plus with the fan blowing on the top of the tank in the space between and above the light it helps a lot cooling the tank down and giving some more oxygen to that side. The danio's are still acting oddly though. Would a water change help or hurt things? Amber Steve Szabo wrote: > > > Amber, > > I do not think we have had one day where it hit 90 here, and, normally, > we would have had more than a few. So nice of you to take those > temperatures on from us <g>. Also, avoid going on the tundra, you may > have the tendency to sink into the ground. > > You have not mentioned turning off your lights, a heat source.. You may > also want, especially if your plants need the light, raise your hoods > off the aquariums, and point some of those fans at the gap you have now > created. Evaporation will help bring the temperature down. > > If you have any spray bars with your filtration, you might want to raise > them, and/or lower the water level. This will serve two purposes. First, > it will help evaporate the water, and second, it will help to saturate > the water with atmospheric gases, including oxygen. > > Keep adding frozen, protected, stuff to your tanks to help cool the > water. > > \\Steve// > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] > On Behalf Of Amber Berglund > Sent: Friday, July 31, 2009 10:09 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Subject: [AquaticLife] Heat issues (in Alaska?) > > Okay so the weather has been horridly warm this week and has caused my > house temps to go over 90 at times (which raises all the temps in the > fish tanks of course). I have only one air pump/stone so I put it in the > > 125 gallon. I'm going out to the fish store tomorrow to pick up another > pump/hose/air stone to put in my 55 gallon upstairs. The Angel's don't > seem to have issues, their tank hasn't gone over 80, but the 125 gallon > has been 82-85 maybe higher (the thermometer stops at 85), I have been > adding floating ice/frozen objects to the tank to help lower the temps > (doesn't help more than lower it 1 degree or so, but it helps at least). > > The fish in the 125 gallon seem okay though, especially since I turned > on the 4 foot air stone in the tank to add some oxygen just in case, > even though I have so many filters going I wanted to make sure the > Hillstream loaches have enough oxygen too. > Fish in the 55 gallon upstairs are showing signs of oxygen stress though > > and the tank hasn't even gone over 80. This is why I'm going to get > another airstone for this tank just in case this happens again. > I have every window open, every fan going in every window and sitting on > > surfaces, just to try to get a breeze going through the house, this > weather his HORRIBLE. It was 91 on wednesday! I moved here to get away > from high temps, sheesh! > I've lost one guppy in the 55 gallon, but I don't know if the males just > > harassed her too much (though they haven't done much of that since the > temps went up), but I've noticed that some of the fish in the 55 gallon > look bloated. Would higher temps cause this or am I feeding wrong > somehow? I haven't changed feeding habits except for the jello food I > made a couple weeks ago, could this be causing bloat? I don't feed it > every day, perhaps every other day and mix it with the normal foods I > have on hand (frozen bloodworms, mysis, and brine shrimp, as well as > flake foods, cyclopeze freeze dried, and shrimp pellets, occasionally I > feed the sinking carnivore pellets too). I tried feeding carrots but no > one wanted any ;) LOL > I could just feed some peas to the tank (shelled peas that is), I think > there's some in the freezer still. There are peas and green beans in the > > jello food mix already though. > > Amber > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 42445	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 8/1/2009
Subject: National Wetlands Inventory

National Wetlands Inventory web site from the U.S. Fish and Wildlife Service may be of some interest to some of you. Those who enjoy native species may find this site particularly useful. http://www.fws.gov/wetlands/ \\Steve//

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 42446	From: Raymond Wetzel	Date: 8/1/2009
Subject: Re: National Wetlands Inventory

Looks like this site could be interesting, \\Steve//, and the info can be accessed per one's individual state, received as one (your choice) of two compressed file methods -- but it didn't seem all that appealing when I read the notation that it could take "60 minutes or more" (100 to 700 MB) to download it. Was I misreading something? Ray ---In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Steve Szabo" <steve@...> wrote: > > National Wetlands Inventory web site from the U.S. Fish and Wildlife > Service may be of some interest to some of you. Those who enjoy native > species may find this site particularly useful. > http://www.fws.gov/wetlands/ > > \\Steve// >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 42447	From: janis_chrystal	Date: 8/1/2009
Subject: corydoral catfish

has a white spot on her fin...what is this and how do I treat her....Thanks Janis

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 42449	From: jan1213@aol.com	Date: 8/1/2009
Subject: Re: Check out my photos on Facebook

I did NOT send this Janis ?????????????????????????? In a message dated 8/1/2009 12:28:45 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time, jan1213@... writes: Hi _aquaticlife@aquaticlife@aqu_ (mailto:aquaticlife@yahoogroups.com) , I set up a Facebook profile where I can post my pictures, videos and events and I want to add you as a friend so you can see it. First, you need to join Facebook! Once you join, you can also create your own profile. Thanks, Janis To sign up for Facebook, follow the link below: _http://www.facebookhttp://www.http://www.f&<WBR>k=Z5EUQXS4R<WBR>k=Z&_ (http://www.facebook.com/p.php?i=1444024455&k=Z5EUQXS4RZ4FUGLATE63R4&r) _aquaticlife@aquaticlife@aqu_ (mailto:aquaticlife@yahoogroups.com) was invited to join Facebook by Janis Chrystal. If you do not wish to receive this type of email from Facebook in the future, please click on the link below to unsubscribe. _http://www.facebookhttp://www.http://w&<WBR>u=5815&<WBR>mid=de6a55G<WBR>mi_ (http://www.facebook.com/o.php?k=303371&u=581570039&mid=de6a55G22aa0df7G0G8) Facebook's offices are located at 1601 S. California Ave., Palo Alto, CA 94304 [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] **************A Good Credit Score is 700 or Above. See yours in just 2 easy steps! (http://pr.atwola.com/promoclk/100126575x1222846709x1201493018/aol?redir=http://www.freecreditreport.com/pm/default.aspx?sc=668072&hmpgID=115&bcd =JulystepsfooterNO115) [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 42450	From: Dora Smith	Date: 8/1/2009
Subject: Re: corydoral catfish

Any chance of photographing it; there are white spots, and white spots. Is it fuzzy looking? Unfortunately, a common fungus infection and a common bacterial infection both fit that description. Not always easy to tell them apart. I think a bacterial infection is more common, however. It needs a broad spectrum antibiotic that can treat both gram positive and gram negative bacterial Before trying that, however, you might want to give the tank a good cleaning, as water quality issues commonly underlie such things, and try some pimafix or melafix - one is for bacteria and the other for fungus; I think they do less to destroy the friendly bacteria that you need in your tank and particularly your filter to process fish wastes. Also add a little salt ot the water; a teaspoon a gallon; it'll help keep the infection from spreading. Yours, Dora Smith Austin, TX tiggernut24@... ----- Original Message ----- From: "janis_chrystal" <jan1213@...> To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Saturday, August 01, 2009 10:43 AM Subject: [AquaticLife] corydoral catfish has a white spot on her fin...what is this and how do I treat her....Thanks Janis ------------------------------------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the home page. Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com to receive the digest, which includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com for the No E-Mail option where you will still be able to read messages on the group and post replies. Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com to receive individual e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 42451	From: xdee86x	Date: 8/1/2009
Subject: Re: corydoral catfish

It could be whitespot, due to stress. Ud have to go to petshop and get treatment --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "janis_chrystal" <jan1213@...> wrote: > > has a white spot on her fin...what is this and how do I treat her....Thanks Janis >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 42452	From: jan1213@aol.com	Date: 8/1/2009
Subject: Re: corydoral catfish

I thought catfish can not tollerate salt. there are other catfish in there with her a lot of babies whit spot does not look fuzzie In a message dated 8/1/2009 1:02:01 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time, tiggernut24@... writes: Any chance of photographing it; there are white spots, and white spots. Is it fuzzy looking? Unfortunately, a common fungus infection and a common bacterial infection both fit that description. Not always easy to tell them apart. I think a bacterial infection is more common, however. It needs a broad spectrum antibiotic that can treat both gram positive and gram negative bacterial Before trying that, however, you might want to give the tank a good cleaning, as water quality issues commonly underlie such things, and try some pimafix or melafix - one is for bacteria and the other for fungus; I think they do less to destroy the friendly bacteria that you need in your tank and particularly your filter to process fish wastes. Also add a little salt ot the water; a teaspoon a gallon; it'll help keep the infection from spreading. Yours, Dora Smith Austin, TX _tiggernut24@tiggernut_ (mailto:tiggernut24@...) ----- Original Message ----- From: "janis_chrystal" <_jan1213@..._ (mailto:jan1213@...) > To: <_AquaticLife@AquaticLife@Aqu_ (mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com) > Sent: Saturday, August 01, 2009 10:43 AM Subject: [AquaticLife] corydoral catfish has a white spot on her fin...what is this and how do I treat her....Thanks Janis ------------------------------------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the home page. Or e-mail _aquaticlife-aquaticlife-<WBRaquati_ (mailto:aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com) to receive the digest, which includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email Or email _aquaticlife-aquaticlife-<WBRaquati_ (mailto:aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com) for the No E-Mail option where you will still be able to read messages on the group and post replies. Or email _aquaticlife-aquaticlife-<WBRaquati_ (mailto:aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com) to receive individual e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links **************A Good Credit Score is 700 or Above. See yours in just 2 easy steps! (http://pr.atwola.com/promoclk/100126575x1222846709x1201493018/aol?redir=http://www.freecreditreport.com/pm/default.aspx?sc=668072&hmpgID=115&bcd =JulystepsfooterNO115) [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 42453	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 8/1/2009
Subject: Re: corydoral catfish

What species of Corydoras? Is the spot raised, fuzzy, etc.? Here's a questionnaire that I have on my blog with a LOT more questions and if you could copy/paste it and reply with more info, it would be easier to try and diagnose your issue. http://goldlenny.blogspot.com/2009/06/sick-fish-questionnaire.html Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of janis_chrystal Sent: Saturday, August 01, 2009 10:43 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] corydoral catfish has a white spot on her fin...what is this and how do I treat her....Thanks Janis

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 42454	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 8/1/2009
Subject: Re: Check out my photos on Facebook

WARNING TO EVERYONE WHO JOINS SOCIAL NETWORKS. PLEASE DO NOT ALLOW THEM TO SEND OUT INVITATIONS TO EVERYONE IN YOUR ADDRESS BOOKS. MANY YAHOO GROUP OWNERS WILL IMMEDIATELY BAN YOU FROM THEIR GROUPS FOR DOING THIS. I KNOW THESE SOCIAL NETWORKS KIND OF TRICK YOU INTO GIVING THEM THE O.K. BUT IT'S A SHAME THEY DO NOT LET YOU PEEK AT WHAT THEY ARE ABOUT TO DO SO YOU COULD SEE JUST HOW MANY PEOPLE YOU ARE ABOUT TO SPAM WITH THEIR CRAPPY INVITES. IT WOULD ALSO BE NICE IF THEY LET YOU PEEK SO YOU COULD DELETE CERTAIN NAMES THAT YOU DID NOT INTEND TO INVITE LIKE YOUR BANK, INSURANCE COMPANY, DOCTORS, YAHOO GROUPS, ETC., ETC., ETC.... BUT THEY DO NOT CARE. Yes, I typed the above in ALL CAPS, not because I am mad or yelling or anything like that... but just to try and get folks attention about this issue. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Janis Chrystal Sent: Saturday, August 01, 2009 11:28 AM To: Aquaticlife Subject: [AquaticLife] Check out my photos on Facebook Hi aquaticlife@yahoogroups.com, I set up a Facebook profile where I can post my pictures, videos and events and I want to add you as a friend so you can see it. First, you need to join Facebook! Once you join, you can also create your own profile. Thanks, Janis

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 42455	From: Menagerie_Manager	Date: 8/1/2009
Subject: Re: Check out my photos on Facebook

You need to check your privacy and permissions settings on your Facebook account. They may be defaulted to give Facebook permission to send out invites periodically to addresses in your mailbox. I had the same problem recently. DebR and the Three Goldfish (CB, Lucille, and Raven) ----- Original Message ----- From: <jan1213@...> I did NOT send this Janis ?????????????????????????? In a message dated 8/1/2009 12:28:45 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time, jan1213@... writes: Hi _aquaticlife@aquaticlife@aqu_ (mailto:aquaticlife@yahoogroups.com) , I set up a Facebook profile where I can post my pictures, videos and events and I want to add you as a friend so you can see it. First, you need to join Facebook! Once you join, you can also create your own profile. Thanks, Janis

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 42456	From: chris.2033	Date: 8/1/2009
Subject: oscar scratches on objects,will not eat and has hole in the head

my oscar scratches on objects and will not anything including shrimp also has hole in the head ,temp of tank is 77.2 degrees - any advice would help me to save it

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 42457	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 8/1/2009
Subject: Re: corydoral catfish

Do not start any kind of treatment right now. You still do not know what you have and mis-treating something can often be worse than the presumed problem. While it's true that many freshwater catfish do not tolerate higher levels of salt, many will tolerate it if slowly acclimated to the salt. You can't just start off with the full dosage but instead add the dosage over the course of 24-48 hours to give them a chance to acclimate and if you see them start to show some distress, you can do a PWC (partial water change) with fresh water to lower the salt level. This article goes into more detail. http://www.skepticalaquarist.com/docs/health/salt.shtml BUT... DO NOT start a salt treatment or any other treatment at this point. We still need more info to try and diagnose exactly what your fish has. See my previous reply. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of jan1213@... Sent: Saturday, August 01, 2009 12:07 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] corydoral catfish I thought catfish can not tollerate salt. there are other catfish in there with her a lot of babies whit spot does not look fuzzie In a message dated 8/1/2009 1:02:01 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time, tiggernut24@... writes: Any chance of photographing it; there are white spots, and white spots. Is it fuzzy looking? Unfortunately, a common fungus infection and a common bacterial infection both fit that description. Not always easy to tell them apart. I think a bacterial infection is more common, however. It needs a broad spectrum antibiotic that can treat both gram positive and gram negative bacterial Before trying that, however, you might want to give the tank a good cleaning, as water quality issues commonly underlie such things, and try some pimafix or melafix - one is for bacteria and the other for fungus; I think they do less to destroy the friendly bacteria that you need in your tank and particularly your filter to process fish wastes. Also add a little salt ot the water; a teaspoon a gallon; it'll help keep the infection from spreading. Yours, Dora Smith Austin, TX _tiggernut24@tiggernut_ (mailto:tiggernut24@...) ----- Original Message ----- From: "janis_chrystal" <_jan1213@..._ (mailto:jan1213@...) > To: <_AquaticLife@AquaticLife@Aqu_ (mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com) > Sent: Saturday, August 01, 2009 10:43 AM Subject: [AquaticLife] corydoral catfish has a white spot on her fin...what is this and how do I treat her....Thanks Janis ------------------------------------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the home page. Or e-mail _aquaticlife-aquaticlife-<WBRaquati_ (mailto:aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com) to receive the digest, which includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email Or email _aquaticlife-aquaticlife-<WBRaquati_ (mailto:aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com) for the No E-Mail option where you will still be able to read messages on the group and post replies. Or email _aquaticlife-aquaticlife-<WBRaquati_ (mailto:aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com) to receive individual e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links **************A Good Credit Score is 700 or Above. See yours in just 2 easy steps! (http://pr.atwola.com/promoclk/100126575x1222846709x1201493018/aol?redir=htt p://www.freecreditreport.com/pm/default.aspx?sc=668072&hmpgID=115&bcd =JulystepsfooterNO115) [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] ------------------------------------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the home page. Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com to receive the digest, which includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com for the No E-Mail option where you will still be able to read messages on the group and post replies. Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com to receive individual e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 42458	From: Deenerz@aol.com	Date: 8/1/2009
Subject: Re: Burundi Frontosa

These are great fish. I had a colony of them going for about 5 years. What size tank do you have now? What size are you planning on keep them in when they are about a foot long each? You are going to need a VERY large tank to keep them in as adults, especially 12 of them. You may want to reconsider adding to this group unless you are going to have more LARGE tanks to keep them in. I recommend do NOT feed them any food that floats as they can get air in the stomache from gulping at the surface. There are recipes out there for making your own food for them from shrimp you buy from the market. My personal food of preference is New Liife Spectrum and they make several size pellets and for different fish. It is a good idea to mix up their diet just as it is a good idea to mix up the diet of any fish. Also please do not hybridize these with other Frontosa. They will be virtually worthless if they are mixed. Make sure if you buy more to get them from a reliable source that knows what they are selling. I have met people selling them, stores etc, that don't know so they stick a label on them. In one case a guy was spawning them from two strains and they looked like Burundi so he sold them as Burundi. This guy iis a major seller of fish so keep in mind the dollar value may interfere with the honesty of the seller. I know a lot of the posters and the owner of Duboisi.com and several of them are major breeders of front osa. Anthony Tu ouf of the San Jose area posts there and he has a two car garage dedicated to breeding Frontosa. If I was starting over that is probably where I would seek advice on Fronts. At the moment I have 5 Seven stripe Fronts (Kigoma) that I am growing out right now. When I moved them from a 29 gallon to a 60 gallon they had rapid growth. Which tells me I had them in the 29 too long and I should work on getting them a 100+ gallon tank by next year. Good luck! -Mike Gale -----Original Message----- From: xdee86x <xdee86x@...> To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Fri, Jul 31, 2009 1:08 pm Subject: [AquaticLife] Burundi Frontosa Hi, I have Burundi frontosas in my tank, there is 7 (2inch) and 5(1inch). If there is anyone who has these fish and no longer want them please please I will take them. Or even any information on them. Would be grateful [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 42459	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 8/1/2009
Subject: Re: oscar scratches on objects,will not eat and has hole in the head

Scratching is a sign of external parasites. Not eating can be internal bacterial issues or digestive tract issues. HITH is still being debated as to it's underlying cause. I think it's generally due to keeping a BIG fish in an undersized tank and all of the long term health problems related to this common mistake. Give us more info though. Here's my Sick Fish Questionnaire from my blog. http://goldlenny.blogspot.com/2009/06/sick-fish-questionnaire.html Sick Fish Questionnaire We understand that if you are having a problem, especially one resulting is sick fish, you want help as soon as possible. In order to give you answers as quickly as we can, we need you to provide answers to as many of the questions below as possible, especially test readings. It would be best if you cut and paste this entire set of questions into your first post, in one of the forums listed on the right of this page, to be sure you answer each inquiry. Test readings (in numbers) for: Ammonia: Nitrite: Nitrate: pH: GH: KH: Temperature: Also post your tap water baseline numbers if known. If not known, now would be a good time to start finding out what they are. See my article on this page http://goldlenny.blogspot.com/2007/05/find-your-tap-source-water-baseline.ht ml Tank size: Tank inhabitants (number and type of fish or other aquatic life): Water change amount and when the last one was done: Filter maintenance and what exactly did you do: How long the tank has been set up: Water or filter additives or pH adjusters used: Recent (within 2 weeks) changes or additions to the tank: Full description of the problem you have been having, including any odd behavior of the inhabitants or appearance of the tank or inhabitants.some common examples are: Fish behavior- separating from school hiding breathing rapidly hanging at surface sitting on bottom having difficulty swimming scraping body on ornaments/plants/gravel Fish appearance- pale or different in color (describe) raised spots/tufts of cottony material/cloudy patches on skin fins fraying chunks missing from fins open sores bent spine Tank appearance- whitish cloudy water greenish cloudy water excessive algae (specify color) We'll try to help as best we can. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of chris.2033 Sent: Saturday, August 01, 2009 1:06 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] oscar scratches on objects,will not eat and has hole in the head my oscar scratches on objects and will not anything including shrimp also has hole in the head ,temp of tank is 77.2 degrees - any advice would help me to save it

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 42460	From: jan1213@aol.com	Date: 8/1/2009
Subject: Re: corydoral catfish

Ammonia 0.25 Nitrite: 0/0.25 Nitrate:40 pH: low 6.5 GH:17.8 KH: 71.6 Temperature: 79.2 And the are hiding now.............I thought because she had another set of babies and she did not want the other older babies to get them... I have a castle and all of the bigger ones are hiding in there all I know is they are cory doral...we have lots of snails I was thinking to take my 10 gal tetra tank and that have 4 and add to my 20gal that has 6 tetras in it....and put allof the cory in the 10 gal till I get the 46 gal really cleaned........and rid of snails.... In a message dated 8/1/2009 1:15:01 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time, GoldLenny@... writes: What species of Corydoras? Is the spot raised, fuzzy, etc.? Here's a questionnaire that I have on my blog with a LOT more questions and if you could copy/paste it and reply with more info, it would be easier to try and diagnose your issue. _http://goldlenny.http://gohttp://gohttp://goldlehttp://goldlenhttp_ (http://goldlenny.blogspot.com/2009/06/sick-fish-questionnaire.html) Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - _http://GoldLenny.http://Gohtt_ (http://goldlenny.blogspot.com/) (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: _AquaticLife@AquaticLife@Aqu_ (mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com) [mailto:_AquaticLife@AquaticLife@Aqu_ (mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com) ] On Behalf Of janis_chrystal Sent: Saturday, August 01, 2009 10:43 AM To: _AquaticLife@AquaticLife@Aqu_ (mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com) Subject: [AquaticLife] corydoral catfish has a white spot on her fin...what is this and how do I treat her....Thanks Janis **************A Good Credit Score is 700 or Above. See yours in just 2 easy steps! (http://pr.atwola.com/promoclk/100126575x1222846709x1201493018/aol?redir=http://www.freecreditreport.com/pm/default.aspx?sc=668072&hmpgID=115&bcd =JulystepsfooterNO115) [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 42461	From: jan1213@aol.com	Date: 8/1/2009
Subject: Re: Check out my photos on Facebook

lenny I did not do this...I do not know how this happened...Janis In a message dated 8/1/2009 1:24:58 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time, GoldLenny@... writes: WARNING TO EVERYONE WHO JOINS SOCIAL NETWORKS. PLEASE DO NOT ALLOW THEM TO SEND OUT INVITATIONS TO EVERYONE IN YOUR ADDRESS BOOKS. MANY YAHOO GROUP OWNERS WILL IMMEDIATELY BAN YOU FROM THEIR GROUPS FOR DOING THIS. I KNOW THESE SOCIAL NETWORKS KIND OF TRICK YOU INTO GIVING THEM THE O.K. BUT IT'S A SHAME THEY DO NOT LET YOU PEEK AT WHAT THEY ARE ABOUT TO DO SO YOU COULD SEE JUST HOW MANY PEOPLE YOU ARE ABOUT TO SPAM WITH THEIR CRAPPY INVITES. IT WOULD ALSO BE NICE IF THEY LET YOU PEEK SO YOU COULD DELETE CERTAIN NAMES THAT YOU DID NOT INTEND TO INVITE LIKE YOUR BANK, INSURANCE COMPANY, DOCTORS, YAHOO GROUPS, ETC., ETC., ETC.... BUT THEY DO NOT CARE. Yes, I typed the above in ALL CAPS, not because I am mad or yelling or anything like that... but just to try and get folks attention about this issue. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - _http://GoldLenny.http://Gohtt_ (http://goldlenny.blogspot.com/) (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month)

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 42462	From: Dora Smith	Date: 8/1/2009
Subject: Re: Heat issues (in Alaska?)

Well, you know what, we did have a fan blowing not far from the fish tank when it was on the back porch; it probably helped. I never quite understood why we had a fan going continually on the back porch for three weeks with the doors and windows to the house closed, LOL! We did have enough fans and heaters going IN the house. So when I had the lid open, that and the fan cooled the tank! Yours, Dora Smith Austin, TX tiggernut24@...

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 42463	From: Dora Smith	Date: 8/1/2009
Subject: Re: Heat issues (in Alaska?)

I have danios in my tank. Now, I did lose several fish over the three weeks. But you had to have seen it - fiberglass insulation and wet sheet rock got into the tank! And I wasn't quite able to maintain my usual cleaning schedule, because I was staying at a motel. I didn't think the heat was necessarily responsible. But I hardly noticed the danios dropping like flies. And if the temperature is only getting into the 90's, it is cooler than it was here. Yours, Dora Smith Austin, TX tiggernut24@...

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 42464	From: Dora Smith	Date: 8/1/2009
Subject: Re: Heat issues (in Alaska?)

They'll start selling them if there's a heat wave. Yours, Dora Smith Austin, TX tiggernut24@... ----- Original Message ----- From: "Amber Berglund" <arberglund@...> To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Friday, July 31, 2009 9:32 PM Subject: [Bulk] Re: [AquaticLife] Heat issues (in Alaska?) > Uhh Lenny, this is Alaska ;) They don't sell those here. > They ordered 1 at sears and it's probably gone by now. All the ones at > walmart are LONG gone, trust me, hubby works there ;) LOL > I would have to order one and have it shipped in and by then the weather > will change ;) > Not to mention I have left/right sliding windows rather than up/down > sliding windows, those AC units tend to be harder to find ;) > I have the water level lowered already and the HOB splashing in, a lot > of the fish hang out there and in the outflow from the rena filstar xp4. > I could put another HOB on it, or I have a powerhead that I got in my > last order from marinedepot.com that I was going to use for the > hillstream loaches, not sure how powerfull it is off the top of my head, > but I need more splashing right? Not water current... > > Amber

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 42465	From: xdee86x	Date: 8/1/2009
Subject: Re: Burundi Frontosa

I know in time i will have to get a bigger tank, Iv got a 4"-2"-2" jus now and realise when they start to get bigger I will have to get a bigger tank --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Natalie Beacom" <beautiful_blonde_loves_aaron@...> wrote: > > i have 1 in my tank i know they are ALOT of money and that they take FOREVER to grow too. ive had mine for 2-3 year and its just now like 4-5 inchs >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 42466	From: Dora Smith	Date: 8/1/2009
Subject: Re: Heat issues (in Alaska?)

I had to keep my fish tank on the back porch for several weeks earlier this summer because we had extensive water damage and my room was destroyed. I kept the lid open; that seemed to help. And the lights off. This was when the temperature was just beginning to reach 100, back in June. Hot in Alaska, LOL! You can get a large enough air conditoner for a small ro medium sized room at Home Depot for around $100. Yours, Dora Smith Austin, TX tiggernut24@... ------------------------------------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the home page. Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com to receive the digest, which includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com for the No E-Mail option where you will still be able to read messages on the group and post replies. Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com to receive individual e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 42467	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 8/1/2009
Subject: Re: Check out my photos on Facebook

Like I said, they (almost all social networks.. Facebook, MySpace, Grouply, etc.) *trick* you into giving them permission to access all of your email accounts and spamming your entire address book(s). Someone else, I think DebR, wrote with info on how to take this permission away from them, otherwise they will periodically send out these spams again. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of jan1213@... Sent: Saturday, August 01, 2009 12:31 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Check out my photos on Facebook lenny I did not do this...I do not know how this happened...Janis In a message dated 8/1/2009 1:24:58 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time, GoldLenny@... writes: WARNING TO EVERYONE WHO JOINS SOCIAL NETWORKS. PLEASE DO NOT ALLOW THEM TO SEND OUT INVITATIONS TO EVERYONE IN YOUR ADDRESS BOOKS. MANY YAHOO GROUP OWNERS WILL IMMEDIATELY BAN YOU FROM THEIR GROUPS FOR DOING THIS. I KNOW THESE SOCIAL NETWORKS KIND OF TRICK YOU INTO GIVING THEM THE O.K. BUT IT'S A SHAME THEY DO NOT LET YOU PEEK AT WHAT THEY ARE ABOUT TO DO SO YOU COULD SEE JUST HOW MANY PEOPLE YOU ARE ABOUT TO SPAM WITH THEIR CRAPPY INVITES. IT WOULD ALSO BE NICE IF THEY LET YOU PEEK SO YOU COULD DELETE CERTAIN NAMES THAT YOU DID NOT INTEND TO INVITE LIKE YOUR BANK, INSURANCE COMPANY, DOCTORS, YAHOO GROUPS, ETC., ETC., ETC.... BUT THEY DO NOT CARE. Yes, I typed the above in ALL CAPS, not because I am mad or yelling or anything like that... but just to try and get folks attention about this issue. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - _http://GoldLenny.http://Gohtt_ (http://goldlenny.blogspot.com/) (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month)

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 42468	From: jan1213@aol.com	Date: 8/1/2009
Subject: Re: Check out my photos on Facebook

Deb said to go into the permissions and security and I did but what am I supposed to check off the wording is so vague Thanks Jfanis In a message dated 8/1/2009 3:08:48 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time, GoldLenny@... writes: Like I said, they (almost all social networks.. Facebook, MySpace, Grouply, etc.) *trick* you into giving them permission to access all of your email accounts and spamming your entire address book(s). Someone else, I think DebR, wrote with info on how to take this permission away from them, otherwise they will periodically send out these spams again. Lenny Vasbinder

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 42469	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 8/1/2009
Subject: Re: National Wetlands Inventory

The are probably basing that on a modem speed, not broad band, unless they are throttling their upload speed way back. \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Raymond Wetzel Sent: Saturday, August 01, 2009 11:03 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: National Wetlands Inventory Looks like this site could be interesting, \\Steve//, and the info can be accessed per one's individual state, received as one (your choice) of two compressed file methods -- but it didn't seem all that appealing when I read the notation that it could take "60 minutes or more" (100 to 700 MB) to download it. Was I misreading something? Ray ---In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Steve Szabo" <steve@...> wrote: > > National Wetlands Inventory web site from the U.S. Fish and Wildlife > Service may be of some interest to some of you. Those who enjoy native > species may find this site particularly useful. > http://www.fws.gov/wetlands/ > > \\Steve// >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 42470	From: Menagerie_Manager	Date: 8/1/2009
Subject: Re: Check out my photos on Facebook

Darned if I know. I just went there and everything's different again. One thing I have learned is never to click on, "Search for Friends," or whatever they call it, now. I did that once, thinking it would let me choose which friends to actually invite. Nope, it sent invites to everyone in my online address book. And if I clear my online address book, some very important messages (mortgage notice, etc) will go straight to the spam folder and never get downloaded to Windows Mail. DebR and the Three Goldfish (CB, Lucille, and Raven) ----- Original Message ----- From: <jan1213@...> Deb said to go into the permissions and security and I did but what am I supposed to check off the wording is so vague Thanks Jfanis

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 42471	From: Dora Smith	Date: 8/1/2009
Subject: Re: corydoral catfish

I don't specifically know if catfish can tolerate salt. Most fish can tolerate a little long enough to deal with what ails them. Yours, Dora Smith Austin, TX tiggernut24@...

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 42472	From: Dora Smith	Date: 8/1/2009
Subject: corydoral catfish

The usual cause of fish disease is a water quality issue, and these numbers are consistent with a water quality issue. If it was me, I'd give the tank a good cleaning and change abuot half the water in the process. I don't know how large your tank is. How long has your tank been set up? Yuor ammonia and nitrite levels should be 0. Your nitrate levels are pretty high. Do you test regularly, so that you know fo rhow long your numbers have looked like this? Maybe the tank is not fully cycled, maybe it's overstocked, maybe it's overdue for a cleaning, and maybe something has died in the tank and you don't know it. What is your ph usually? Yours, Dora Smith Austin, TX tiggernut24@...

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 42473	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 8/1/2009
Subject: Re: corydoral catfish

Fish adapt to a lot of different water parameters actually. Like for instance I have Albino Aeneus Cory's and I have very slowly adapted them to higher levels of KH and GH than they "normally" prefer according to profiles like Mongabay, etc. They don't seem to mind the higher GH or KH at all though, they're all still just as active and happy (fat), LOL. Not to mention I slowly adapted them to a higher level of pH than what all of my tanks used to sit at without adding crushed coral to my filters, so they went from a pH of 6 to a pH of 7.2, which is a big difference, but it was a slow process (I had all the fish in a bucket and slowly added water from the fish tank, like most acclimation processes). I also have my Severum in different water parameters than what they "prefer" according to mongabay, higher pH and GH and KH as well. Still need to get him to notice that the jello food is really food, no problem with ANY other fish except him ;) LOL. So as Lenny said, Cory's can slowly adapt to salt in their tanks if you do it very gradually and watch to see if they're in distress/acting oddly from too much salt if you add too much. I have yet to add any salt to my tanks since my Ich outbreak in December last year, and I didn't have Cory's at the time. Amber Dora Smith wrote: > > > I don't specifically know if catfish can tolerate salt. Most fish can > tolerate a little long enough to deal with what ails them. > > Yours, > Dora Smith > Austin, TX > tiggernut24@... <mailto:tiggernut24%40yahoo.com> > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 42474	From: jan1213@aol.com	Date: 8/1/2009
Subject: Re: corydoral catfish

In a message dated 8/1/2009 6:07:02 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time, arberglund@... writes: well I moved all fish as planned...........so I can thoroughly clean the 46 gal tank (Cory Doral tank)...every one is happy...........the cat fish are doing the mating dance again.........I must have got the ultimate romantic pair.......and all my tetras are happy to be together.... this will remain permanent with the tetra.... It still amazes me...... I really love my fish.......such personalities............. Fish adapt to a lot of different water parameters actually. Like for instance I have Albino Aeneus Cory's and I have very slowly adapted them to higher levels of KH and GH than they "normally" prefer according to profiles like Mongabay, etc. They don't seem to mind the higher GH or KH at all though, they're all still just as active and happy (fat), LOL. Not to mention I slowly adapted them to a higher level of pH than what all of my tanks used to sit at without adding crushed coral to my filters, so they went from a pH of 6 to a pH of 7.2, which is a big difference, but it was a slow process (I had all the fish in a bucket and slowly added water from the fish tank, like most acclimation processes). I also have my Severum in different water parameters than what they "prefer" according to mongabay, higher pH and GH and KH as well. Still need to get him to notice that the jello food is really food, no problem with ANY other fish except him ;) LOL. So as Lenny said, Cory's can slowly adapt to salt in their tanks if you do it very gradually and watch to see if they're in distress/acting oddly from too much salt if you add too much. I have yet to add any salt to my tanks since my Ich outbreak in December last year, and I didn't have Cory's at the time. Amber Dora Smith wrote: > > > I don't specifically know if catfish can tolerate salt. Most fish can > tolerate a little long enough to deal with what ails them. > > Yours, > Dora Smith > Austin, TX > _tiggernut24@tiggernut_ (mailto:tiggernut24@...) <mailto:tiggernut24mailto:timai> > > **************A Good Credit Score is 700 or Above. See yours in just 2 easy steps! (http://pr.atwola.com/promoclk/100126575x1222846709x1201493018/aol?redir=http://www.freecreditreport.com/pm/default.aspx?sc=668072&hmpgID=115&bcd =JulystepsfooterNO115) [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 42475	From: Courtland Jacob	Date: 8/1/2009
Subject: Re: cleaning tips

it's a platty, small fish should be fine --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, Amber Berglund <arberglund@...> wrote: > > I hope it's a small fish ;) LOL. > Is it for a betta or something? You would still do the same maintenance > as a bigger tank, unless you wanted to change water more often, just > change smaller amounts, like 10% every few days or so. That way you > don't change too much at once. They have smaller gravel vac's for > cleaning smaller tanks but not sure how small they get. Perhaps just > some rubber hosing (the kind made for filters) would work instead of a > gravel vac? > > Amber > > Courtland Jacob wrote: > > > > > > hey guys anyone have experince with really small tanks, say like 2 > > gallon tanks, i recently sold off all the fish in my community tank > > except one fish which was one of the first fish i ever bought, but > > instead of keeping a big tank running just for him i bought a little > > two gallon tank took the gravel from the tank he was in along with > > some of the water and some brand new water, i love this little thing > > because you can put it pretty much anywhere, the question is how often > > do you clean something that small, how much water whould i change and > > do i need to vacuum the gravel, if so how? > > > > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 42476	From: Courtland Jacob	Date: 8/1/2009
Subject: Re: cleaning tips

yeah it's in an add on office that stays around 80 and i have been keeping a sharp eye on the temp in the tank as well --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@...> wrote: > > What kind of fish do you have? A Betta or other single fish that stays > under 2" and is a slow swimmer would be about all that would work long term > in a 2G tank. > > The maintenance would depend on the bioload. If you have a single fish that > would be considered a heavy bioload for a 2G tank, you might need to two or > three 25% PWC's and tank maintenance each week. If reasonably stocked, then > you could do weekly 25% PWC's and tank maintenance. Tank maintenance > includes gravel vacuuming and proper filter cleaning/maintenance. > > With a tank that small, it's also important to know your tap water baseline > chemistry and keep it in a room that has a stabile tropical temperature or > if a cool water fish, then the proper room temperature since they do not > make heaters that work very accurately in smaller tanks like that so you > will need to rely on ambient (room) temperature to keep the water > temperature stabile. > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right > side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) > > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On > Behalf Of Courtland Jacob > Sent: Friday, July 31, 2009 6:36 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Subject: [AquaticLife] cleaning tips > > hey guys anyone have experince with really small tanks, say like 2 gallon > tanks, i recently sold off all the fish in my community tank except one fish > which was one of the first fish i ever bought, but instead of keeping a big > tank running just for him i bought a little two gallon tank took the gravel > from the tank he was in along with some of the water and some brand new > water, i love this little thing because you can put it pretty much anywhere, > the question is how often do you clean something that small, how much water > whould i change and do i need to vacuum the gravel, if so how? >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 42477	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 8/2/2009
Subject: Re: corydoral catfish

Maybe you need to get your laptop up next to the tank and play some of the old Jello/Bill Cosby commercials off of YouTube. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Amber Berglund Sent: Saturday, August 01, 2009 5:05 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: corydoral catfish Fish adapt to a lot of different water parameters actually. Like for instance I have Albino Aeneus Cory's and I have very slowly adapted them to higher levels of KH and GH than they "normally" prefer according to profiles like Mongabay, etc. They don't seem to mind the higher GH or KH at all though, they're all still just as active and happy (fat), LOL. Not to mention I slowly adapted them to a higher level of pH than what all of my tanks used to sit at without adding crushed coral to my filters, so they went from a pH of 6 to a pH of 7.2, which is a big difference, but it was a slow process (I had all the fish in a bucket and slowly added water from the fish tank, like most acclimation processes). I also have my Severum in different water parameters than what they "prefer" according to mongabay, higher pH and GH and KH as well. Still need to get him to notice that the jello food is really food, no problem with ANY other fish except him ;) LOL. So as Lenny said, Cory's can slowly adapt to salt in their tanks if you do it very gradually and watch to see if they're in distress/acting oddly from too much salt if you add too much. I have yet to add any salt to my tanks since my Ich outbreak in December last year, and I didn't have Cory's at the time. Amber Dora Smith wrote: > > > I don't specifically know if catfish can tolerate salt. Most fish can > tolerate a little long enough to deal with what ails them. > > Yours, > Dora Smith > Austin, TX > tiggernut24@... <mailto:tiggernut24%40yahoo.com>

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 42478	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 8/2/2009
Subject: Re: corydoral catfish

Be careful when cleaning a tank. You don't want to overclean it and then kill off your good nitrifying bacteria or you will than have to re-cycle the tank unless you have taken other measures to preserve your nitrifying bacteria in your filters. See my blog article on proper "Filter Maintenance And Cleaning" for more info on keeping your N-bacteria alive when cleaning/maintaining your filters. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of jan1213@... Sent: Saturday, August 01, 2009 8:10 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: corydoral catfish In a message dated 8/1/2009 6:07:02 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time, arberglund@... writes: well I moved all fish as planned...........so I can thoroughly clean the 46 gal tank (Cory Doral tank)...every one is happy...........the cat fish are doing the mating dance again.........I must have got the ultimate romantic pair.......and all my tetras are happy to be together.... this will remain permanent with the tetra.... It still amazes me...... I really love my fish.......such personalities............. Fish adapt to a lot of different water parameters actually. Like for instance I have Albino Aeneus Cory's and I have very slowly adapted them to higher levels of KH and GH than they "normally" prefer according to profiles like Mongabay, etc. They don't seem to mind the higher GH or KH at all though, they're all still just as active and happy (fat), LOL. Not to mention I slowly adapted them to a higher level of pH than what all of my tanks used to sit at without adding crushed coral to my filters, so they went from a pH of 6 to a pH of 7.2, which is a big difference, but it was a slow process (I had all the fish in a bucket and slowly added water from the fish tank, like most acclimation processes). I also have my Severum in different water parameters than what they "prefer" according to mongabay, higher pH and GH and KH as well. Still need to get him to notice that the jello food is really food, no problem with ANY other fish except him ;) LOL. So as Lenny said, Cory's can slowly adapt to salt in their tanks if you do it very gradually and watch to see if they're in distress/acting oddly from too much salt if you add too much. I have yet to add any salt to my tanks since my Ich outbreak in December last year, and I didn't have Cory's at the time. Amber Dora Smith wrote: > > > I don't specifically know if catfish can tolerate salt. Most fish can > tolerate a little long enough to deal with what ails them. > > Yours, > Dora Smith > Austin, TX > _tiggernut24@tiggernut_ (mailto:tiggernut24@...) <mailto:tiggernut24mailto:timai> > > **************A Good Credit Score is 700 or Above. See yours in just 2 easy steps! (http://pr.atwola.com/promoclk/100126575x1222846709x1201493018/aol?redir=htt p://www.freecreditreport.com/pm/default.aspx?sc=668072&hmpgID=115&bcd =JulystepsfooterNO115) [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] ------------------------------------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the home page. Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com to receive the digest, which includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com for the No E-Mail option where you will still be able to read messages on the group and post replies. Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com to receive individual e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 42479	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 8/2/2009
Subject: Re: corydoral catfish

J-E-L-L-O ;) I don't think it'd work Lenny ;) LOL Amber Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > > > Maybe you need to get your laptop up next to the tank and play some of the > old Jello/Bill Cosby commercials off of YouTube. > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right > side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On > Behalf Of Amber Berglund > Sent: Saturday, August 01, 2009 5:05 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: corydoral catfish > > Fish adapt to a lot of different water parameters actually. Like for > instance I have Albino Aeneus Cory's and I have very slowly adapted > them to > higher levels of KH and GH than they "normally" prefer according to > profiles > like Mongabay, etc. They don't seem to mind the higher GH or KH at all > though, they're all still just as active and happy (fat), LOL. > Not to mention I slowly adapted them to a higher level of pH than what all > of my tanks used to sit at without adding crushed coral to my filters, so > they went from a pH of 6 to a pH of 7.2, which is a big difference, but it > was a slow process (I had all the fish in a bucket and slowly added water > from the fish tank, like most acclimation processes). I also have my > Severum > in different water parameters than what they "prefer" according to > mongabay, > higher pH and GH and KH as well. > Still need to get him to notice that the jello food is really food, no > problem with ANY other fish except him ;) LOL. > So as Lenny said, Cory's can slowly adapt to salt in their tanks if you do > it very gradually and watch to see if they're in distress/acting oddly > from > too much salt if you add too much. I have yet to add any salt to my tanks > since my Ich outbreak in December last year, and I didn't have Cory's > at the > time. > > Amber > > Dora Smith wrote: > > > > > > I don't specifically know if catfish can tolerate salt. Most fish can > > tolerate a little long enough to deal with what ails them. > > > > Yours, > > Dora Smith > > Austin, TX > > tiggernut24@... <mailto:tiggernut24%40yahoo.com> > <mailto:tiggernut24%40yahoo.com> > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 42480	From: Dora Smith	Date: 8/2/2009
Subject: Re: [Bulk] Re: [AquaticLife] Re: corydoral catfish

Might entertain Nathaniel the Fish, though. Yours, Dora Smith Austin, TX tiggernut24@... ----- Original Message ----- From: "Amber Berglund" <arberglund@...> To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Sunday, August 02, 2009 1:51 PM Subject: [Bulk] Re: [AquaticLife] Re: corydoral catfish > J-E-L-L-O ;) > I don't think it'd work Lenny ;) LOL > > Amber > > Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: >> >> >> Maybe you need to get your laptop up next to the tank and play some of >> the >> old Jello/Bill Cosby commercials off of YouTube. >> >> Lenny Vasbinder >> Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> >> (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right >> side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com >> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> >> [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com >> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On >> Behalf Of Amber Berglund >> Sent: Saturday, August 01, 2009 5:05 PM >> To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> >> Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: corydoral catfish >> >> Fish adapt to a lot of different water parameters actually. Like for >> instance I have Albino Aeneus Cory's and I have very slowly adapted >> them to >> higher levels of KH and GH than they "normally" prefer according to >> profiles >> like Mongabay, etc. They don't seem to mind the higher GH or KH at all >> though, they're all still just as active and happy (fat), LOL. >> Not to mention I slowly adapted them to a higher level of pH than what >> all >> of my tanks used to sit at without adding crushed coral to my filters, so >> they went from a pH of 6 to a pH of 7.2, which is a big difference, but >> it >> was a slow process (I had all the fish in a bucket and slowly added water >> from the fish tank, like most acclimation processes). I also have my >> Severum >> in different water parameters than what they "prefer" according to >> mongabay, >> higher pH and GH and KH as well. >> Still need to get him to notice that the jello food is really food, no >> problem with ANY other fish except him ;) LOL. >> So as Lenny said, Cory's can slowly adapt to salt in their tanks if you >> do >> it very gradually and watch to see if they're in distress/acting oddly >> from >> too much salt if you add too much. I have yet to add any salt to my tanks >> since my Ich outbreak in December last year, and I didn't have Cory's >> at the >> time. >> >> Amber >> >> Dora Smith wrote: >> > >> > >> > I don't specifically know if catfish can tolerate salt. Most fish can >> > tolerate a little long enough to deal with what ails them. >> > >> > Yours, >> > Dora Smith >> > Austin, TX >> > tiggernut24@... <mailto:tiggernut24%40yahoo.com> >> <mailto:tiggernut24%40yahoo.com> >> >> > > > ------------------------------------ > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. > ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> > PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to > the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the > SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- > <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. > > If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of unsubscribing, you > can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the > home page. > > Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com to receive the digest, which > includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email > > Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com for the No E-Mail option where > you will still be able to read messages on the group and post replies. > > Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com to receive individual > e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links > > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 42481	From: Dora Smith	Date: 8/2/2009
Subject: Re: [Bulk] RE: [AquaticLife] Re: corydoral catfish

I was thinking that if that's how she cleans her tank, it's no wonder if she lets it go too long. Best way to clean a tank is with a siphon. There are a variety of kinds of them. I just use a plain thingy on the end of a plastic hose. You vacuum the gravel with it. Just change so much water, ordinarily. If that doesn't work you can always repeat it. Yours, Dora Smith Austin, TX tiggernut24@... ----- Original Message ----- From: "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@...> To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Sunday, August 02, 2009 1:51 PM Subject: [Bulk] RE: [AquaticLife] Re: corydoral catfish Be careful when cleaning a tank. You don't want to overclean it and then kill off your good nitrifying bacteria or you will than have to re-cycle the tank unless you have taken other measures to preserve your nitrifying bacteria in your filters. See my blog article on proper "Filter Maintenance And Cleaning" for more info on keeping your N-bacteria alive when cleaning/maintaining your filters. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of jan1213@... Sent: Saturday, August 01, 2009 8:10 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: corydoral catfish In a message dated 8/1/2009 6:07:02 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time, arberglund@... writes: well I moved all fish as planned...........so I can thoroughly clean the 46 gal tank (Cory Doral tank)...every one is happy...........the cat fish are doing the mating dance again.........I must have got the ultimate romantic pair.......and all my tetras are happy to be together.... this will remain permanent with the tetra.... It still amazes me...... I really love my fish.......such personalities............. Fish adapt to a lot of different water parameters actually. Like for instance I have Albino Aeneus Cory's and I have very slowly adapted them to higher levels of KH and GH than they "normally" prefer according to profiles like Mongabay, etc. They don't seem to mind the higher GH or KH at all though, they're all still just as active and happy (fat), LOL. Not to mention I slowly adapted them to a higher level of pH than what all of my tanks used to sit at without adding crushed coral to my filters, so they went from a pH of 6 to a pH of 7.2, which is a big difference, but it was a slow process (I had all the fish in a bucket and slowly added water from the fish tank, like most acclimation processes). I also have my Severum in different water parameters than what they "prefer" according to mongabay, higher pH and GH and KH as well. Still need to get him to notice that the jello food is really food, no problem with ANY other fish except him ;) LOL. So as Lenny said, Cory's can slowly adapt to salt in their tanks if you do it very gradually and watch to see if they're in distress/acting oddly from too much salt if you add too much. I have yet to add any salt to my tanks since my Ich outbreak in December last year, and I didn't have Cory's at the time. Amber Dora Smith wrote: > > > I don't specifically know if catfish can tolerate salt. Most fish can > tolerate a little long enough to deal with what ails them. > > Yours, > Dora Smith > Austin, TX > _tiggernut24@tiggernut_ (mailto:tiggernut24@...) <mailto:tiggernut24mailto:timai> > > **************A Good Credit Score is 700 or Above. See yours in just 2 easy steps! (http://pr.atwola.com/promoclk/100126575x1222846709x1201493018/aol?redir=htt p://www.freecreditreport.com/pm/default.aspx?sc=668072&hmpgID=115&bcd =JulystepsfooterNO115) [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] ------------------------------------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the home page. Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com to receive the digest, which includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com for the No E-Mail option where you will still be able to read messages on the group and post replies. Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com to receive individual e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links ------------------------------------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the home page. Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com to receive the digest, which includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com for the No E-Mail option where you will still be able to read messages on the group and post replies. Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com to receive individual e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 42482	From: jan1213@aol.com	Date: 8/2/2009
Subject: Re: corydoral catfish

I am buying Dr Tims stuff,,,,,,,,,,,and starting all over, the snail problem was too bad In a message dated 8/2/2009 2:52:32 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time, GoldLenny@... writes: Be careful when cleaning a tank. You don't want to overclean it and then kill off your good nitrifying bacteria or you will than have to re-cycle the tank unless you have taken other measures to preserve your nitrifying bacteria in your filters. See my blog article on proper "Filter Maintenance And Cleaning" for more info on keeping your N-bacteria alive when cleaning/maintainincleaning/mainta Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - _http://GoldLenny.http://Gohtt_ (http://goldlenny.blogspot.com/) (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: _AquaticLife@AquaticLife@Aqu_ (mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com) [mailto:_AquaticLife@AquaticLife@Aqu_ (mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com) ] On Behalf Of _jan1213@..._ (mailto:jan1213@...) Sent: Saturday, August 01, 2009 8:10 PM To: _AquaticLife@AquaticLife@Aqu_ (mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com) Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: corydoral catfish In a message dated 8/1/2009 6:07:02 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time, _arberglund@..._ (mailto:arberglund@...) writes: well I moved all fish as planned.....well I moved all fish as planned.....<WBR> gal tank (Cory Doral tank)...every one is happy.......gal tank (Cory Doral doing the mating dance again.......doing the mating dance again....... pair.......and all my tetras are happy to be together.... this will remain permanent with the tetra.... It still amazes me...... I really love my fish.......such personalities.personalipersonal Fish adapt to a lot of different water parameters actually. Like for instance I have Albino Aeneus Cory's and I have very slowly adapted them to higher levels of KH and GH than they "normally" prefer according to profiles like Mongabay, etc. They don't seem to mind the higher GH or KH at all though, they're all still just as active and happy (fat), LOL. Not to mention I slowly adapted them to a higher level of pH than what all of my tanks used to sit at without adding crushed coral to my filters, so they went from a pH of 6 to a pH of 7.2, which is a big difference, but it was a slow process (I had all the fish in a bucket and slowly added water from the fish tank, like most acclimation processes). I also have my Severum in different water parameters than what they "prefer" according to mongabay, higher pH and GH and KH as well. Still need to get him to notice that the jello food is really food, no problem with ANY other fish except him ;) LOL. So as Lenny said, Cory's can slowly adapt to salt in their tanks if you do it very gradually and watch to see if they're in distress/acting oddly from too much salt if you add too much. I have yet to add any salt to my tanks since my Ich outbreak in December last year, and I didn't have Cory's at the time. Amber Dora Smith wrote: > > > I don't specifically know if catfish can tolerate salt. Most fish can > tolerate a little long enough to deal with what ails them. > > Yours, > Dora Smith > Austin, TX > _tiggernut24@ _tiggernut24@<WBR>_tiggernut24@tiggernut_ (mailto:tiggernut24@...) ) <mailto:tiggernut24mailto:tigge> > > ************************<WBR>**A Good Credit Score is 700 or Above. See yours i steps! (_http://pr.atwola.http://pr.atwhttp://pr.atwolahttp://pr.atwolahttp://pr.ht t_ (http://pr.atwola.com/promoclk/100126575x1222846709x1201493018/aol?redir=htt) _p://www.freecreditrp://www.frp://www.frep://www.freecr&<WBR>hmpgI&<WB_ (file:///p://www.freecreditreport.com/pm/default.aspx?sc=668072&hmpgID=115&bcd) =JulystepsfooterNO1=Ju [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] ------------------------------------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the home page. Or e-mail _aquaticlife-aquaticlife-<WBRaquati_ (mailto:aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com) to receive the digest, which includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email Or email _aquaticlife-aquaticlife-<WBRaquati_ (mailto:aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com) for the No E-Mail option where you will still be able to read messages on the group and post replies. Or email _aquaticlife-aquaticlife-<WBRaquati_ (mailto:aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com) to receive individual e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links **************A Good Credit Score is 700 or Above. See yours in just 2 easy steps! (http://pr.atwola.com/promoclk/100126575x1222846709x1201493018/aol?redir=http://www.freecreditreport.com/pm/default.aspx?sc=668072&hmpgID=115&bcd =JulystepsfooterNO115) [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 42483	From: Courtland Jacob	Date: 8/2/2009
Subject: water conditioners

what are some recommendations for water conditioners? anything that comes in a dropper form that makes measuring easier? I know api has one that comes in a dropper bottle that treats one gallon per drop, but I don't know how good of a product it is

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 42484	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 8/2/2009
Subject: Re: water conditioners

I recommend Ultimate, distributed by Hikari USA. 1 teaspoon (the measuring kind, not the stir the coffee kind) treats 10 gallons of water. Comes in sizes to treat 60 gallons of water (1 oz.) to 38,400 gallons (5 gallons). I do not know about the API stuff, but it is more concentrated, for one thing. A teaspoon is equal to 5 milliliters. A milliliter = 19.476877076 drop. The real question would then be, what size is the drop? Is it the official scientific drop where you can fit nearly 19 of them into a teaspoon, or is it a much larger drop, as is likely to be the case? \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Courtland Jacob Sent: Sunday, August 02, 2009 7:34 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] water conditioners what are some recommendations for water conditioners? anything that comes in a dropper form that makes measuring easier? I know api has one that comes in a dropper bottle that treats one gallon per drop, but I don't know how good of a product it is

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 42485	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 8/2/2009
Subject: Re: water conditioners

API's is what I use for the most part. It's a very good product and is much more concentrated than some of the others. As you mentioned, it only takes one drop per gallon where some others need 8 drops per gallon. I buy at least the 16 oz. bottle though as it's a much better bargain than the little 2 oz. bottle with the fold out dropper top. If you already have the 2 oz. bottle, buy the larger bottle next time and simply refill the smaller one if you like the fold out dropper top for dosing your replacement water during PWC's. How many tanks and what is the total water volume of them? Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Courtland Jacob Sent: Sunday, August 02, 2009 6:34 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] water conditioners what are some recommendations for water conditioners? anything that comes in a dropper form that makes measuring easier? I know api has one that comes in a dropper bottle that treats one gallon per drop, but I don't know how good of a product it is

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 42486	From: Dora Smith	Date: 8/2/2009
Subject: Re: water conditioners

You know what I often do? Add conditioner by the pipette full to one of those graduated tall plastic beakers. Yours, Dora Smith Austin, TX tiggernut24@... ----- Original Message ----- From: "Courtland Jacob" <courtland_jacob@...> To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Sunday, August 02, 2009 6:34 PM Subject: [AquaticLife] water conditioners what are some recommendations for water conditioners? anything that comes in a dropper form that makes measuring easier? I know api has one that comes in a dropper bottle that treats one gallon per drop, but I don't know how good of a product it is ------------------------------------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the home page. Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com to receive the digest, which includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com for the No E-Mail option where you will still be able to read messages on the group and post replies. Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com to receive individual e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 42487	From: nicurns@bellsouth.net	Date: 8/2/2009
Subject: ???? Facebook post?????

Was this facebook post a joke or something? I read the subject line but when tried to open it, it said the post doesn't exists on Aquaticlife. Personally I would be leary about such use of facebook on a site like this, as it can cause spam...... I was on a group in the past this happened to and we started having so much junk, that all the posters left. I hope the LMD's are not going to let this occur here, as I really I the group. James S.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 42488	From: cat.rose	Date: 8/2/2009
Subject: Bloated Guppy

My male guppy has been bloated for a couple days, and today he's stayed at the top of the tank gulping air constantly. He does not have any raised scales, and he's been eating. I don't have any other tank/equipment to move him to. Help please! Catherine

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 42489	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 8/2/2009
Subject: Re: ???? Facebook post?????

It was an accidental posting to the group due to FaceBook's aggressive emailing of "friends" when one allows FaceBook (or MySpace or Grouply, etc.) to have access to one's address book. There's nothing wrong with social networks as long as the users maintain control of things like their address books. This group has a MySpace page with a LOT of friends. I'm not sure if I ever linked my own MySpace page to the group's or not. LOL I'm not really into MySpace or FaceBook for that purpose, mostly only to have a profile so I can view friend's or family's photos when needed. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of nicurns@... Sent: Sunday, August 02, 2009 9:31 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] ???? Facebook post????? Was this facebook post a joke or something? I read the subject line but when tried to open it, it said the post doesn't exists on Aquaticlife. Personally I would be leary about such use of facebook on a site like this, as it can cause spam...... I was on a group in the past this happened to and we started having so much junk, that all the posters left. I hope the LMD's are not going to let this occur here, as I really I the group. James S.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 42490	From: Jim Pat.	Date: 8/3/2009
Subject: "Well" Water..........

I have a friend that is starting a tank, he has well water. Does anyone have well water? How do you treat it, he found out that his PH is "very high" and there is copper in the water. He had the water tested at Petsmart, he lives in a different state, I was not there for the testing or I would have taked it to a LFS. They are also telling him to use distilled water.... Thanks, Jim

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 42491	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 8/3/2009
Subject: Re: "Well" Water..........

Typical PetsMart information. "Very high" is so subjective. Without an actual number, one could only speculate as to what it is. I would STRONGLY suggest that you STRONGLY suggest to your friend that they get a Master Test Kit, either the API or Tetra-Laborette brand from Walmart.com where either can be purchased for under $20.00 with free shipping to their local store. Then they can test their water themselves using the baseline testing instructions on my blog and then they will know more about what their water parameters will be. The master test kit will also be very helpful when Cycling their tank, preferably Fishless Cycling but if they decide to put their fish through the Cycling process, then they can at least test the water daily and do the daily PWC's necessary to keep the fish from suffering as much from the high ammonia and nitrite levels. They really should do a Fishless Cycle or use Dr. Tim's One And Only in case their pH is as high as PetsMart suggests as a high pH makes ammonia MUCH MORE TOXIC to fish than a low pH. As far as the Copper level, I would also get a second opinion on that... but if he does have heavy metals in the well water, then basic dechlor products (I use API's Tap Water Conditioner) will not only treat for chlorine/chloramine but also for heavy metals but since he doesn't need the chlorine/chloramine treatment, there are also filter mediums available that remove heavy metals but I think the dechlor product would be a lower cost option. DO NOT listen to their advice on using distilled water. Fish cannot live in distilled water... at least not for very long. Maybe they were suggesting diluting the well water with distilled water and that's always a possibility but without your friend knowing their true baseline water chemistry numbers, it's hard to speculate... and better yet, it's BEST to just keep fish that do well in the water that you have so you do not have to fool with the water chemistry very much. If the well water is a high pH and hard water, there are MANY, MANY fish that prefer that kind of water, such as livebearers and most African Cichlids.... as well as other fish. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Jim Pat. Sent: Monday, August 03, 2009 6:55 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] "Well" Water.......... I have a friend that is starting a tank, he has well water. Does anyone have well water? How do you treat it, he found out that his PH is "very high" and there is copper in the water. He had the water tested at Petsmart, he lives in a different state, I was not there for the testing or I would have taked it to a LFS. They are also telling him to use distilled water.... Thanks, Jim

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 42492	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 8/3/2009
Subject: Re: Bloated Guppy

What else do you have in the tank that he is in? Try feeding him green pea "meat" which is a natural laxative to most fish. I use frozen green peas but unsalted from a can will also work. Of course fresh work as well. Take a single pea and pinch the pea so the "meat" pops out of the skin, discard the skin and then mash up the two halves a little and feed a little to the guppy... as much as he will eat. Your other fish will also like this and it's OK to feed them pea "meat" as well.. even if they are not bloated. Now.. the bloating could be from more than simple constipation but lets eliminate that possibility first. He could be staying at the top of the tank due to swim bladder issues caused by the constipation and the gulping could just be from the added stress from not being able to control his buoyancy. Of course, all of these issues could also be related to internal bacterial or parasitic issues. Can you at least move him to a separate container of any type? I've used clear Sterilite storage boxes for this purpose. When not being used for a Q-tank or H-tank, you can store your fish stuff in the box. While it's certainly best to have a fully set up H-tank, with a cycled filter, if none is available then a simple container that holds enough water for the size fish... a few gallons in the case of a single guppy... and an air stone to help circulate the water will at least give you an easier way to isolate and observe the guppy to see if he is pooping and what the poop looks like. Fish poop observation is a very good first step in trying to diagnose fish problems. Go to my blog and see my most recent blog which is a Sick Fish Questionnaire and give us as much info as possible and we can give more help. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of cat.rose Sent: Sunday, August 02, 2009 9:42 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Bloated Guppy My male guppy has been bloated for a couple days, and today he's stayed at the top of the tank gulping air constantly. He does not have any raised scales, and he's been eating. I don't have any other tank/equipment to move him to. Help please! Catherine

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 42493	From: bill 1433	Date: 8/3/2009
Subject: Re: "Well" Water..........

Hi Jim,   Yes you can treat well water BUT--------you should first get a baseline for pH, Ammonia if present and also GH and KH if they have any.  With well water sometime you don't have any.  That was my problem.  To raise the pH and get some water hardness simply add either cuttle bone to the PF or crushed coral.  I have used both on two different tanks and like the coral better.  It is easier to maintain and will out last the cuttle bone.   To give you some idea of amount to use; my baseline water is 5.5 to 5.8.  In a 29 gallon tank, I am using 7 tablespoons in my PF and now have a pH of 7.0 with a GH and KH both at 3.  I change 5 gallons of water twice each week.   Jim, I have copper pipes too and when I change water I let it run a while both for temperature and copper content.  By this I mean that I have found that many times your reading the copper content of the "standing water" in the pipes.  IF you let it run a bit you might find you get a 0 reading, I did.   Bill --- On Mon, 8/3/09, Jim Pat. <Jpateson@...> wrote: From: Jim Pat. <Jpateson@...> Subject: [AquaticLife] "Well" Water.......... To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Date: Monday, August 3, 2009, 7:54 AM I have a friend that is starting a tank, he has well water.  Does anyone have well water? How do you treat it, he found out that his PH is "very high" and there is copper in the water.  He had the water tested at Petsmart, he lives in a different state, I was not there for the testing or I would have taked it to a LFS. They are also telling him to use distilled water..... Thanks, Jim ------------------------------------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the home page.  Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com to receive the digest, which includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com for the No E-Mail option where you will still be able to read messages on the group and post replies. Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com to receive individual e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 42494	From: cat.rose	Date: 8/3/2009
Subject: Re: Bloated Guppy

Thank you Lenny! Here is the help questionnaire: Tank size: 10 gal Tank inhabitants (number and type of fish or other aquatic life): 3 guppies, 3 platy (1 is a 1/2 in baby that was recently discovered!), 2 GloFish Water change amount and when the last one was done: 25% PWC done weekly (last one was Wed 7/29) Filter maintenance and what exactly did you do: I follow the instructions on the box for replacing the 3 different filter mediums. About 2 weeks ago I took filter apart and cleaned parts thoroughly. How long the tank has been set up: February 2009 Water or filter additives or pH adjusters used: Cycle, Stress Coat (weekly). Used pH increase but stopped because it didn't seem to be working. Recent (within 2 weeks) changes or additions to the tank: I will look at home for name. PetSmart gave me something that I've used twice which is supposed to help with pH, etc (not a Buffer, they were out of that product). Full description of the problem you have been having, including any odd behavior of the inhabitants or appearance of the tank or inhabitants some common examples are: Fish behavior- breathing rapidly hanging at surface Fish appearance- bloated stomach Tank appearance- clear --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@...> wrote: > > What else do you have in the tank that he is in? > > Try feeding him green pea "meat" which is a natural laxative to most fish. I use frozen green peas but unsalted from a can will also work. Of course fresh work as well. Take a single pea and pinch the pea so the "meat" pops out of the skin, discard the skin and then mash up the two halves a little and feed a little to the guppy... as much as he will eat. Your other fish will also like this and it's OK to feed them pea "meat" as well.. even if they are not bloated. > > Now.. the bloating could be from more than simple constipation but lets eliminate that possibility first. He could be staying at the top of the tank due to swim bladder issues caused by the constipation and the gulping could just be from the added stress from not being able to control his buoyancy. Of course, all of these issues could also be related to internal bacterial or parasitic issues. > > Can you at least move him to a separate container of any type? I've used clear Sterilite storage boxes for this purpose. When not being used for a Q-tank or H-tank, you can store your fish stuff in the box. > > While it's certainly best to have a fully set up H-tank, with a cycled filter, if none is available then a simple container that holds enough water for the size fish... a few gallons in the case of a single guppy... and an air stone to help circulate the water will at least give you an easier way to isolate and observe the guppy to see if he is pooping and what the poop looks like. Fish poop observation is a very good first step in trying to diagnose fish problems. > > Go to my blog and see my most recent blog which is a Sick Fish Questionnaire and give us as much info as possible and we can give more help. > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) > > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On > Behalf Of cat.rose > Sent: Sunday, August 02, 2009 9:42 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Subject: [AquaticLife] Bloated Guppy > > My male guppy has been bloated for a couple days, and today he's stayed at the top of the tank gulping air constantly. He does not have any raised scales, and he's been eating. I don't have any other tank/equipment to move him to. > > Help please! > Catherine >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 42495	From: Donna Ransome	Date: 8/3/2009
Subject: Re: "Well" Water..........

I have well water. I have a somewhat high pH (7.8) so I decided to keep African Rift Lake cichlids because they love it. Copper should be regulated by the water authority is it an unsafe level? Distilled water is very troublesome and should be used as a last resort only. _____ From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Jim Pat. Sent: Monday, August 03, 2009 7:55 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] "Well" Water.......... I have a friend that is starting a tank, he has well water. Does anyone have well water? How do you treat it, he found out that his PH is "very high" and there is copper in the water. He had the water tested at Petsmart, he lives in a different state, I was not there for the testing or I would have taked it to a LFS. They are also telling him to use distilled water.... Thanks, Jim [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 42496	From: lioctopi1116	Date: 8/3/2009
Subject: Re: "Well" Water..........

Hello All, You can use distilled water anytime but you must, I repeat, you must put some salt in the water. DI water (what us chemists call it) can actually kill you if that's all you drink. The reason is that it has no electrolytes. They have been removed by the distillation process. All living creatures need electrolytes to maintain a healthy neuro-system. You can buy "ocean salts" that can be added in minute amounts, even to fresh water tanks, in order to place electrolytes back into the system. It also helps in combating infectious agents in the water and can be used in koi ponds, as well. Follow the instructions carefully! Best to you... MoNi' --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, Donna Ransome <djransome@...> wrote: > > I have well water. I have a somewhat high pH (7.8) so I decided to keep > African Rift Lake cichlids because they love it. > > > > Copper should be regulated by the water authority is it an unsafe level? > > > > Distilled water is very troublesome and should be used as a last resort > only. > > > > _____ > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On > Behalf Of Jim Pat. > Sent: Monday, August 03, 2009 7:55 AM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Subject: [AquaticLife] "Well" Water.......... > > > > > > > > I have a friend that is starting a tank, he has well water. Does anyone have > well water? How do you treat it, he found out that his PH is "very high" and > there is copper in the water. He had the water tested at Petsmart, he lives > in a different state, I was not there for the testing or I would have taked > it to a LFS. They are also telling him to use distilled water.... > > Thanks, > > Jim > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 42497	From: Dave	Date: 8/3/2009
Subject: Going on No mail!!

Hello Everyone. I'm going on No Mail effective immediately. I'm going on a long deserved vacation. We will be going on a camping trip to Lake Michigan. I can't wait!!! Will see you all when I get back. Dave

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 42498	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 8/3/2009
Subject: Re: Going on No mail!!

PARTY at Dave's house--All Week Long! (in other words, dave, you should really not post such information publicly) \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Dave Sent: Monday, August 03, 2009 9:06 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Going on No mail!! Hello Everyone. I'm going on No Mail effective immediately. I'm going on a long deserved vacation. We will be going on a camping trip to Lake Michigan. I can't wait!!! Will see you all when I get back. Dave

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 42499	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 8/3/2009
Subject: Re: Going on No mail!!

Is it BYOB or are YOU supplying the party supplies... or do you think Dave has a well stocked L-cabinet? :-P Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Steve Szabo Sent: Monday, August 03, 2009 10:05 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Going on No mail!! PARTY at Dave's house--All Week Long! (in other words, dave, you should really not post such information publicly) \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Dave Sent: Monday, August 03, 2009 9:06 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Going on No mail!! Hello Everyone. I'm going on No Mail effective immediately. I'm going on a long deserved vacation. We will be going on a camping trip to Lake Michigan. I can't wait!!! Will see you all when I get back. Dave

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 42500	From: cat.rose	Date: 8/4/2009
Subject: Re Re: Bloated Guppy (he died last night)

Thank you Lenny! Well, my little guppy died last night... He was alive when I fed them, and then later I couldn't find him, but he was laying on the bottom in the back. I have been giving them all peas like you suggested. Hopefully this won't happen to any of the other fish. Here are answers to the help questionnaire: Tank size: 10 gal Tank inhabitants (number and type of fish or other aquatic life): 3 (now 2) guppies, 3 platy (1 is a 1/2 in baby that was recently discovered!), 2 GloFish Water change amount and when the last one was done: 25% PWC done weekly (last one was Wed 7/29) Filter maintenance and what exactly did you do: I follow the instructions on the box for replacing the 3 different filter mediums. About 2 weeks ago I took filter apart and cleaned parts thoroughly. How long the tank has been set up: February 2009 Water or filter additives or pH adjusters used: Cycle, Stress Coat (weekly). Used pH increase but stopped because it didn't seem to be working. Recent (within 2 weeks) changes or additions to the tank: Nutrifin Waste Control. I've used this twice which is supposed to help with pH, etc (not a Buffer, they were out of that product). Full description of the problem you have been having, including any odd behavior of the inhabitants or appearance of the tank or inhabitants some common examples are: Fish behavior- breathing rapidly hanging at surface Fish appearance- bloated stomach Tank appearance- clear --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@...> wrote: > > What else do you have in the tank that he is in? > > Try feeding him green pea "meat" which is a natural laxative to most fish. I use frozen green peas but unsalted from a can will also work. Of course fresh work as well. Take a single pea and pinch the pea so the "meat" pops out of the skin, discard the skin and then mash up the two halves a little and feed a little to the guppy... as much as he will eat. Your other fish will also like this and it's OK to feed them pea "meat" as well.. even if they are not bloated. > > Now.. the bloating could be from more than simple constipation but lets eliminate that possibility first. He could be staying at the top of the tank due to swim bladder issues caused by the constipation and the gulping could just be from the added stress from not being able to control his buoyancy. Of course, all of these issues could also be related to internal bacterial or parasitic issues. > > Can you at least move him to a separate container of any type? I've used clear Sterilite storage boxes for this purpose. When not being used for a Q-tank or H-tank, you can store your fish stuff in the box. > > While it's certainly best to have a fully set up H-tank, with a cycled filter, if none is available then a simple container that holds enough water for the size fish... a few gallons in the case of a single guppy... and an air stone to help circulate the water will at least give you an easier way to isolate and observe the guppy to see if he is pooping and what the poop looks like. Fish poop observation is a very good first step in trying to diagnose fish problems. > > Go to my blog and see my most recent blog which is a Sick Fish Questionnaire and give us as much info as possible and we can give more help. > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) > > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On > Behalf Of cat.rose > Sent: Sunday, August 02, 2009 9:42 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Subject: [AquaticLife] Bloated Guppy > > My male guppy has been bloated for a couple days, and today he's stayed at the top of the tank gulping air constantly. He does not have any raised scales, and he's been eating. I don't have any other tank/equipment to move him to. > > Help please! > Catherine

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 42501	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 8/4/2009
Subject: Re: Re Re: Bloated Guppy (he died last night)

My guess would be with all those things that petsmart has given you to use you have stressed your fish out and they can't adjust to the changing water parameters. How are you cleaning the filter "thoroughly"? Do you rinse the cartridges in removed tank water or do you throw them away? You should always rinse your filter cartridges in removed tap water or you risk killing all of your nitrifying bacteria on them (which is very bad and causes the tank to start it's cycle all over again). A good rule to follow is asking other people on the group if whatever product you are considering using is safe for your tank, a lot of products out there will actually kill your fish, so you have to be careful with what you add to your tank. Stress coat doesn't do anything that I've ever noticed by the way. I'm not sure about Cycle or the Nutrifin waste control, but I would be hesitant using them anyways. I try not to use anything I don't know as safe first. Amber cat.rose wrote: > > Thank you Lenny! > > Well, my little guppy died last night... He was alive when I fed them, > and then later I couldn't find him, but he was laying on the bottom in > the back. > > I have been giving them all peas like you suggested. Hopefully this > won't happen to any of the other fish. > > Here are answers to the help questionnaire: > > Tank size: 10 gal > > Tank inhabitants (number and type of fish or other aquatic life): 3 > (now 2) guppies, 3 platy (1 is a 1/2 in baby that was recently > discovered!), 2 GloFish Water change amount and when the last one was > done: 25% PWC done weekly (last one was Wed 7/29) > > Filter maintenance and what exactly did you do: I follow the > instructions on the box for replacing the 3 different filter mediums. > About 2 weeks ago I took filter apart and cleaned parts thoroughly. > > How long the tank has been set up: February 2009 Water or filter > additives or pH adjusters used: Cycle, Stress Coat (weekly). > Used pH increase but stopped because it didn't seem to be working. > > Recent (within 2 weeks) changes or additions to the tank: Nutrifin > Waste Control. I've used this twice which is supposed to help with pH, > etc (not a Buffer, they were out of that product). > > Full description of the problem you have been having, including any > odd behavior of the inhabitants or appearance of the tank or > inhabitants… some common examples are: > > Fish behavior- > breathing rapidly > hanging at surface > > Fish appearance- > bloated stomach > > Tank appearance- > clear > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>, "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" > <GoldLenny@...> wrote: > > > > What else do you have in the tank that he is in? > > > > Try feeding him green pea "meat" which is a natural laxative to most > fish. I use frozen green peas but unsalted from a can will also work. > Of course fresh work as well. Take a single pea and pinch the pea so > the "meat" pops out of the skin, discard the skin and then mash up the > two halves a little and feed a little to the guppy... as much as he > will eat. Your other fish will also like this and it's OK to feed them > pea "meat" as well.. even if they are not bloated. > > > > Now.. the bloating could be from more than simple constipation but > lets eliminate that possibility first. He could be staying at the top > of the tank due to swim bladder issues caused by the constipation and > the gulping could just be from the added stress from not being able to > control his buoyancy. Of course, all of these issues could also be > related to internal bacterial or parasitic issues. > > > > Can you at least move him to a separate container of any type? I've > used clear Sterilite storage boxes for this purpose. When not being > used for a Q-tank or H-tank, you can store your fish stuff in the box. > > > > While it's certainly best to have a fully set up H-tank, with a > cycled filter, if none is available then a simple container that holds > enough water for the size fish... a few gallons in the case of a > single guppy... and an air stone to help circulate the water will at > least give you an easier way to isolate and observe the guppy to see > if he is pooping and what the poop looks like. Fish poop observation > is a very good first step in trying to diagnose fish problems. > > > > Go to my blog and see my most recent blog which is a Sick Fish > Questionnaire and give us as much info as possible and we can give > more help. > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the > right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by > Year, Month) > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On > > Behalf Of cat.rose > > Sent: Sunday, August 02, 2009 9:42 PM > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > Subject: [AquaticLife] Bloated Guppy > > > > My male guppy has been bloated for a couple days, and today he's > stayed at the top of the tank gulping air constantly. He does not have > any raised scales, and he's been eating. I don't have any other > tank/equipment to move him to. > > > > Help please! > > Catherine > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 42502	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 8/4/2009
Subject: Re: Re Re: Bloated Guppy (he died last night)

Also do you have your own master test kit for testing pH, ammonia, nitrite, nitrate? If not you should look at getting one, they will be very handy at narrowing down your tank issues. You can order them from walmart.com and have them sent to your local store (except us Alaskans) for free, for pick up. They are less than 20 dollars on walmart.com I think. Amber cat.rose wrote: > > Thank you Lenny! > > Well, my little guppy died last night... He was alive when I fed them, > and then later I couldn't find him, but he was laying on the bottom in > the back. > > I have been giving them all peas like you suggested. Hopefully this > won't happen to any of the other fish. > > Here are answers to the help questionnaire: > > Tank size: 10 gal > > Tank inhabitants (number and type of fish or other aquatic life): 3 > (now 2) guppies, 3 platy (1 is a 1/2 in baby that was recently > discovered!), 2 GloFish Water change amount and when the last one was > done: 25% PWC done weekly (last one was Wed 7/29) > > Filter maintenance and what exactly did you do: I follow the > instructions on the box for replacing the 3 different filter mediums. > About 2 weeks ago I took filter apart and cleaned parts thoroughly. > > How long the tank has been set up: February 2009 Water or filter > additives or pH adjusters used: Cycle, Stress Coat (weekly). > Used pH increase but stopped because it didn't seem to be working. > > Recent (within 2 weeks) changes or additions to the tank: Nutrifin > Waste Control. I've used this twice which is supposed to help with pH, > etc (not a Buffer, they were out of that product). > > Full description of the problem you have been having, including any > odd behavior of the inhabitants or appearance of the tank or > inhabitants… some common examples are: > > Fish behavior- > breathing rapidly > hanging at surface > > Fish appearance- > bloated stomach > > Tank appearance- > clear > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>, "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" > <GoldLenny@...> wrote: > > > > What else do you have in the tank that he is in? > > > > Try feeding him green pea "meat" which is a natural laxative to most > fish. I use frozen green peas but unsalted from a can will also work. > Of course fresh work as well. Take a single pea and pinch the pea so > the "meat" pops out of the skin, discard the skin and then mash up the > two halves a little and feed a little to the guppy... as much as he > will eat. Your other fish will also like this and it's OK to feed them > pea "meat" as well.. even if they are not bloated. > > > > Now.. the bloating could be from more than simple constipation but > lets eliminate that possibility first. He could be staying at the top > of the tank due to swim bladder issues caused by the constipation and > the gulping could just be from the added stress from not being able to > control his buoyancy. Of course, all of these issues could also be > related to internal bacterial or parasitic issues. > > > > Can you at least move him to a separate container of any type? I've > used clear Sterilite storage boxes for this purpose. When not being > used for a Q-tank or H-tank, you can store your fish stuff in the box. > > > > While it's certainly best to have a fully set up H-tank, with a > cycled filter, if none is available then a simple container that holds > enough water for the size fish... a few gallons in the case of a > single guppy... and an air stone to help circulate the water will at > least give you an easier way to isolate and observe the guppy to see > if he is pooping and what the poop looks like. Fish poop observation > is a very good first step in trying to diagnose fish problems. > > > > Go to my blog and see my most recent blog which is a Sick Fish > Questionnaire and give us as much info as possible and we can give > more help. > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the > right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by > Year, Month) > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On > > Behalf Of cat.rose > > Sent: Sunday, August 02, 2009 9:42 PM > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > Subject: [AquaticLife] Bloated Guppy > > > > My male guppy has been bloated for a couple days, and today he's > stayed at the top of the tank gulping air constantly. He does not have > any raised scales, and he's been eating. I don't have any other > tank/equipment to move him to. > > > > Help please! > > Catherine > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 42503	From: cat.rose	Date: 8/4/2009
Subject: Re: "Well" Water..........

Hi there, I live in New Jersey and the water here is HORRIBLE, so I use Britta filtered water. Is that okay for a 10 gallon freshwater tank? My test strips come out pretty good except the water is hard, and the pH needs to be higher but the pH Increase I tried hasn't seemed to do anything. Also the nitrate has been a bit high. Thanks! Catherine --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, bill 1433 <warrenprint@...> wrote: > > > Hi Jim, >   > Yes you can treat well water BUT--------you should first get a baseline for pH, Ammonia if present and also GH and KH if they have any.  With well water sometime you don't have any.  That was my problem.  To raise the pH and get some water hardness simply add either cuttle bone to the PF or crushed coral.  I have used both on two different tanks and like the coral better.  It is easier to maintain and will out last the cuttle bone. >   > To give you some idea of amount to use; my baseline water is 5.5 to 5.8.  In a 29 gallon tank, I am using 7 tablespoons in my PF and now have a pH of 7.0 with a GH and KH both at 3.  I change 5 gallons of water twice each week. >   > Jim, I have copper pipes too and when I change water I let it run a while both for temperature and copper content.  By this I mean that I have found that many times your reading the copper content of the "standing water" in the pipes.  IF you let it run a bit you might find you get a 0 reading, I did. >   > Bill > > --- On Mon, 8/3/09, Jim Pat. <Jpateson@...> wrote: > > > From: Jim Pat. <Jpateson@...> > Subject: [AquaticLife] "Well" Water.......... > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Date: Monday, August 3, 2009, 7:54 AM > > > > > I have a friend that is starting a tank, he has well water.  Does anyone have well water? How do you treat it, he found out that his PH is "very high" and there is copper in the water.  He had the water tested at Petsmart, he lives in a different state, I was not there for the testing or I would have taked it to a LFS. They are also telling him to use distilled water..... > > Thanks, > > Jim > > > > ------------------------------------ > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. > ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> > PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- > <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. > > If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the home page.  > > Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com to receive the digest, which includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email > > Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com for the No E-Mail option where you will still be able to read messages on the group and post replies. > > Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com to receive individual e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 42504	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 8/4/2009
Subject: Re: Re Re: Bloated Guppy (he died last night)

Awww.. sorry to hear about your guppy. I wish we could have figured out what was wrong. Are any of the other fish showing any symptoms? Don't overly worry if they aren't. Quite often, a single fish will succumb to a *bug* that the other fish are able to resist, just like us humans, where one person in the home/office might get sick but that does not mean we all will. How old was this male guppy... I'm guessing still pretty young since you've only had the tank since February 2009 but I wanted to check? Even if not age related, some fish simply have weaker immune systems than other fish and will get sick easier when stressed (and see below about your filter cleaning which could have caused the stress issue). First thing you need to do is QUIT using all of the various bottled chemicals. The only thing you should be using is a simple dechlor product that also treats for heavy metals. 99% of fish keepers DO NOT need any of the stress-this or slime-that or pH changing chemicals... or the Cycle or Waste Control products either. They simply are not needed and basically will turn your tank into a chemical waste dump instead of a *freshwater* tank. Just keep up with your weekly tank maintenance, gravel vacuuming, 25% PWC's and PROPER filter cleaning and maintenance. I mention PROPER filter cleaning and maintenance as I see that you've fallen for the replace-the-filter-cartridge scam that filter companies put in their instructions. This is actually BAD for your tank if not done properly. Go to my blog and read my LONG article on "Filter Maintenance And Cleaning" so you do not repeat your past mistakes. There's a good chance that when you completely cleaned your filter two weeks ago, this caused a Cycling Issue in your tank and the product, Cycle, does not solve this issue. Do you have a master test kit for checking ammonia, nitrite, nitrate, pH, GH and KH? If not, quit buying all the bottled chemical crap and spend $15-$17 on a decent Master Test Kit. Either the API or Tetra-Laborette master test kits can be bought online at Walmart.com for that price range.. with free shipping to your local store. This test kit will last you at least a year and it's the best investment you can make for your fish, instead of all the bottled crap that some stores push on people. Once you get a test kit, we can test your tank but also do a Tap Water Baseline test, which is very important to know when first starting out. While at my blog, also read my article "Find Your Tap Water Baseline" so you will understand this process when you get your test kit. Are you planning on a larger fish tank? If not, your 10G tank is on the small side for the types of fish you are keeping. While at my blog, also check out the article, "10 Gallon Tank Stocking Suggestions". As you will see, livebearers like guppies and platys are not the best choices unless you go with all males, otherwise they can easily overwhelm a tank with their breeding. The GloFish (Zebra Danios) should be kept in schools of at least six but with your other fish, you do not have the room for six of them and six of them would be overcrowded in a 10G tank anyhow since they are such fast swimmers and a 10G tank doesn't really give them room to swim around as a school. If you bought your fish at a LFS (Local Fish Store), ask them if they will take the two GloFish back for store credit. If you bought them at a big box pet store, they probably won't take them back but you can still ask since they should not have sold you the fish in the first place. Another thing, while at my blog, go to my page "A to Z of Fish Keeping" and take one or both of the free online tutorials, which will walk you through a lot of what I've said above and in my articles and keep you from making some of the most common mistakes in the future. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of cat.rose Sent: Tuesday, August 04, 2009 10:16 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Re Re: Bloated Guppy (he died last night) Thank you Lenny! Well, my little guppy died last night... He was alive when I fed them, and then later I couldn't find him, but he was laying on the bottom in the back. I have been giving them all peas like you suggested. Hopefully this won't happen to any of the other fish. Here are answers to the help questionnaire: Tank size: 10 gal Tank inhabitants (number and type of fish or other aquatic life): 3 (now 2) guppies, 3 platy (1 is a 1/2 in baby that was recently discovered!), 2 GloFish Water change amount and when the last one was done: 25% PWC done weekly (last one was Wed 7/29) Filter maintenance and what exactly did you do: I follow the instructions on the box for replacing the 3 different filter mediums. About 2 weeks ago I took filter apart and cleaned parts thoroughly. How long the tank has been set up: February 2009 Water or filter additives or pH adjusters used: Cycle, Stress Coat (weekly). Used pH increase but stopped because it didn't seem to be working. Recent (within 2 weeks) changes or additions to the tank: Nutrifin Waste Control. I've used this twice which is supposed to help with pH, etc (not a Buffer, they were out of that product). Full description of the problem you have been having, including any odd behavior of the inhabitants or appearance of the tank or inhabitants. some common examples are: Fish behavior- breathing rapidly hanging at surface Fish appearance- bloated stomach Tank appearance- clear --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@...> wrote: > > What else do you have in the tank that he is in? > > Try feeding him green pea "meat" which is a natural laxative to most fish. I use frozen green peas but unsalted from a can will also work. Of course fresh work as well. Take a single pea and pinch the pea so the "meat" pops out of the skin, discard the skin and then mash up the two halves a little and feed a little to the guppy... as much as he will eat. Your other fish will also like this and it's OK to feed them pea "meat" as well.. even if they are not bloated. > > Now.. the bloating could be from more than simple constipation but lets eliminate that possibility first. He could be staying at the top of the tank due to swim bladder issues caused by the constipation and the gulping could just be from the added stress from not being able to control his buoyancy. Of course, all of these issues could also be related to internal bacterial or parasitic issues. > > Can you at least move him to a separate container of any type? I've used clear Sterilite storage boxes for this purpose. When not being used for a Q-tank or H-tank, you can store your fish stuff in the box. > > While it's certainly best to have a fully set up H-tank, with a cycled filter, if none is available then a simple container that holds enough water for the size fish... a few gallons in the case of a single guppy... and an air stone to help circulate the water will at least give you an easier way to isolate and observe the guppy to see if he is pooping and what the poop looks like. Fish poop observation is a very good first step in trying to diagnose fish problems. > > Go to my blog and see my most recent blog which is a Sick Fish Questionnaire and give us as much info as possible and we can give more help. > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles > referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically > under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) > > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] > On Behalf Of cat.rose > Sent: Sunday, August 02, 2009 9:42 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Subject: [AquaticLife] Bloated Guppy > > My male guppy has been bloated for a couple days, and today he's stayed at the top of the tank gulping air constantly. He does not have any raised scales, and he's been eating. I don't have any other tank/equipment to move him to. > > Help please! > Catherine

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 42505	From: cat.rose	Date: 8/4/2009
Subject: Re Re: Bloated Guppy (he died last night)

Hi Amber, I have been using test strips (I just ran out and have to buy more - Do you have a specific brand of test strips that you recommend?). --The water is always hard. --The pH is always low, and the pH increase doesn't seem to work. --The nitrate has been a bit high. If you have any suggestions as to how to fix these problems please let me know! Thanks, Catherine --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, Amber Berglund <arberglund@...> wrote: > > Also do you have your own master test kit for testing pH, ammonia, > nitrite, nitrate? If not you should look at getting one, they will be > very handy at narrowing down your tank issues. > You can order them from walmart.com and have them sent to your local > store (except us Alaskans) for free, for pick up. They are less than 20 > dollars on walmart.com I think. > > Amber > > cat.rose wrote: > > > > Thank you Lenny! > > > > Well, my little guppy died last night... He was alive when I fed them, > > and then later I couldn't find him, but he was laying on the bottom in > > the back. > > > > I have been giving them all peas like you suggested. Hopefully this > > won't happen to any of the other fish. > > > > Here are answers to the help questionnaire: > > > > Tank size: 10 gal > > > > Tank inhabitants (number and type of fish or other aquatic life): 3 > > (now 2) guppies, 3 platy (1 is a 1/2 in baby that was recently > > discovered!), 2 GloFish Water change amount and when the last one was > > done: 25% PWC done weekly (last one was Wed 7/29) > > > > Filter maintenance and what exactly did you do: I follow the > > instructions on the box for replacing the 3 different filter mediums. > > About 2 weeks ago I took filter apart and cleaned parts thoroughly. > > > > How long the tank has been set up: February 2009 Water or filter > > additives or pH adjusters used: Cycle, Stress Coat (weekly). > > Used pH increase but stopped because it didn't seem to be working. > > > > Recent (within 2 weeks) changes or additions to the tank: Nutrifin > > Waste Control. I've used this twice which is supposed to help with pH, > > etc (not a Buffer, they were out of that product). > > > > Full description of the problem you have been having, including any > > odd behavior of the inhabitants or appearance of the tank or > > inhabitants some common examples are: > > > > Fish behavior- > > breathing rapidly > > hanging at surface > > > > Fish appearance- > > bloated stomach > > > > Tank appearance- > > clear > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>, "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" > > <GoldLenny@> wrote: > > > > > > What else do you have in the tank that he is in? > > > > > > Try feeding him green pea "meat" which is a natural laxative to most > > fish. I use frozen green peas but unsalted from a can will also work. > > Of course fresh work as well. Take a single pea and pinch the pea so > > the "meat" pops out of the skin, discard the skin and then mash up the > > two halves a little and feed a little to the guppy... as much as he > > will eat. Your other fish will also like this and it's OK to feed them > > pea "meat" as well.. even if they are not bloated. > > > > > > Now.. the bloating could be from more than simple constipation but > > lets eliminate that possibility first. He could be staying at the top > > of the tank due to swim bladder issues caused by the constipation and > > the gulping could just be from the added stress from not being able to > > control his buoyancy. Of course, all of these issues could also be > > related to internal bacterial or parasitic issues. > > > > > > Can you at least move him to a separate container of any type? I've > > used clear Sterilite storage boxes for this purpose. When not being > > used for a Q-tank or H-tank, you can store your fish stuff in the box. > > > > > > While it's certainly best to have a fully set up H-tank, with a > > cycled filter, if none is available then a simple container that holds > > enough water for the size fish... a few gallons in the case of a > > single guppy... and an air stone to help circulate the water will at > > least give you an easier way to isolate and observe the guppy to see > > if he is pooping and what the poop looks like. Fish poop observation > > is a very good first step in trying to diagnose fish problems. > > > > > > Go to my blog and see my most recent blog which is a Sick Fish > > Questionnaire and give us as much info as possible and we can give > > more help. > > > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the > > right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by > > Year, Month) > > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On > > > Behalf Of cat.rose > > > Sent: Sunday, August 02, 2009 9:42 PM > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > Subject: [AquaticLife] Bloated Guppy > > > > > > My male guppy has been bloated for a couple days, and today he's > > stayed at the top of the tank gulping air constantly. He does not have > > any raised scales, and he's been eating. I don't have any other > > tank/equipment to move him to. > > > > > > Help please! > > > Catherine > > > > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 42506	From: cat.rose	Date: 8/4/2009
Subject: Re Re: Bloated Guppy (he died last night)

Thanks Amber. That will be very annoying to me if the products Petsmart recommended is what caused it. I would hope that the people in their aquarium department would know what they're talking about. I only use Cycle, and just recently the Waste Management. I use the test strips weekly and those results never change, so I wouldn't think the water parameters are changing either, unless the test strips don't work properly. I didn't use removed tank water to rinse out my filter, I rinsed the parts out in the sink with filtered Britta water. I rinsed the "stones" in the filtered water (don't need to replace those for a few more weeks, according to the package), I replaced the carbon pack, and I replaced the "sponge". Thanks, Catherine --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, Amber Berglund <arberglund@...> wrote: > > My guess would be with all those things that petsmart has given you to > use you have stressed your fish out and they can't adjust to the > changing water parameters. > How are you cleaning the filter "thoroughly"? Do you rinse the > cartridges in removed tank water or do you throw them away? > You should always rinse your filter cartridges in removed tap water or > you risk killing all of your nitrifying bacteria on them (which is very > bad and causes the tank to start it's cycle all over again). > A good rule to follow is asking other people on the group if whatever > product you are considering using is safe for your tank, a lot of > products out there will actually kill your fish, so you have to be > careful with what you add to your tank. Stress coat doesn't do anything > that I've ever noticed by the way. I'm not sure about Cycle or the > Nutrifin waste control, but I would be hesitant using them anyways. I > try not to use anything I don't know as safe first. > > Amber > > cat.rose wrote: > > > > Thank you Lenny! > > > > Well, my little guppy died last night... He was alive when I fed them, > > and then later I couldn't find him, but he was laying on the bottom in > > the back. > > > > I have been giving them all peas like you suggested. Hopefully this > > won't happen to any of the other fish. > > > > Here are answers to the help questionnaire: > > > > Tank size: 10 gal > > > > Tank inhabitants (number and type of fish or other aquatic life): 3 > > (now 2) guppies, 3 platy (1 is a 1/2 in baby that was recently > > discovered!), 2 GloFish Water change amount and when the last one was > > done: 25% PWC done weekly (last one was Wed 7/29) > > > > Filter maintenance and what exactly did you do: I follow the > > instructions on the box for replacing the 3 different filter mediums. > > About 2 weeks ago I took filter apart and cleaned parts thoroughly. > > > > How long the tank has been set up: February 2009 Water or filter > > additives or pH adjusters used: Cycle, Stress Coat (weekly). > > Used pH increase but stopped because it didn't seem to be working. > > > > Recent (within 2 weeks) changes or additions to the tank: Nutrifin > > Waste Control. I've used this twice which is supposed to help with pH, > > etc (not a Buffer, they were out of that product). > > > > Full description of the problem you have been having, including any > > odd behavior of the inhabitants or appearance of the tank or > > inhabitants some common examples are: > > > > Fish behavior- > > breathing rapidly > > hanging at surface > > > > Fish appearance- > > bloated stomach > > > > Tank appearance- > > clear > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>, "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" > > <GoldLenny@> wrote: > > > > > > What else do you have in the tank that he is in? > > > > > > Try feeding him green pea "meat" which is a natural laxative to most > > fish. I use frozen green peas but unsalted from a can will also work. > > Of course fresh work as well. Take a single pea and pinch the pea so > > the "meat" pops out of the skin, discard the skin and then mash up the > > two halves a little and feed a little to the guppy... as much as he > > will eat. Your other fish will also like this and it's OK to feed them > > pea "meat" as well.. even if they are not bloated. > > > > > > Now.. the bloating could be from more than simple constipation but > > lets eliminate that possibility first. He could be staying at the top > > of the tank due to swim bladder issues caused by the constipation and > > the gulping could just be from the added stress from not being able to > > control his buoyancy. Of course, all of these issues could also be > > related to internal bacterial or parasitic issues. > > > > > > Can you at least move him to a separate container of any type? I've > > used clear Sterilite storage boxes for this purpose. When not being > > used for a Q-tank or H-tank, you can store your fish stuff in the box. > > > > > > While it's certainly best to have a fully set up H-tank, with a > > cycled filter, if none is available then a simple container that holds > > enough water for the size fish... a few gallons in the case of a > > single guppy... and an air stone to help circulate the water will at > > least give you an easier way to isolate and observe the guppy to see > > if he is pooping and what the poop looks like. Fish poop observation > > is a very good first step in trying to diagnose fish problems. > > > > > > Go to my blog and see my most recent blog which is a Sick Fish > > Questionnaire and give us as much info as possible and we can give > > more help. > > > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the > > right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by > > Year, Month) > > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On > > > Behalf Of cat.rose > > > Sent: Sunday, August 02, 2009 9:42 PM > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > Subject: [AquaticLife] Bloated Guppy > > > > > > My male guppy has been bloated for a couple days, and today he's > > stayed at the top of the tank gulping air constantly. He does not have > > any raised scales, and he's been eating. I don't have any other > > tank/equipment to move him to. > > > > > > Help please! > > > Catherine > > > > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 42507	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 8/4/2009
Subject: Re: Re Re: Bloated Guppy (he died last night)

Catherine, Can you give us any numbers? I know from following posts that you only have the test strips and now realize they should only be used as a guideline and that a Master Test Kit is a MUCH better bargain and MUCH MORE reliable but in the interim, give us numbers for things like pH, hardness, ammonia, nitrite, nitrate, etc... or more details on what the test strips say. There should be a chart on the bottle or box that gives corresponding numbers to the color chart. Here is \\Steves// long post all about nitrates. While we try to keep them below 40.0ppm and even below 20.0ppm (I'm not sure what yours are since you just say "high") so they are not the same as ammonia or nitrites which can become toxic at even 0.25ppm depending on other water chemistry factors. http://pets.groups.yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife/message/13064 Fish keeping doesn't have to be difficult. Other than getting through the initial "Cycling" (The Nitrogen Cycle), which you can read all about on my blog, on the "A to Z of Fish Keeping" page, fish keeping is relatively simple once you understand this one phase. The water chemistry issue only becomes an issue if fish are having health problems and then we need to look for likely causes. As long as you are not having problems with fish health issues, then it's just a matter of doing weekly 25% PWC's, vacuuming the gravel and doing proper filter maintenance. Very low cost once you get past the initial cost. Oh yeah.. one other thing you have to do... feed the fish. ;-) Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of cat.rose Sent: Tuesday, August 04, 2009 10:50 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Re Re: Bloated Guppy (he died last night) Hi Amber, I have been using test strips (I just ran out and have to buy more - Do you have a specific brand of test strips that you recommend?). --The water is always hard. --The pH is always low, and the pH increase doesn't seem to work. --The nitrate has been a bit high. If you have any suggestions as to how to fix these problems please let me know! Thanks, Catherine --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, Amber Berglund <arberglund@...> wrote: > > Also do you have your own master test kit for testing pH, ammonia, > nitrite, nitrate? If not you should look at getting one, they will be > very handy at narrowing down your tank issues. > You can order them from walmart.com and have them sent to your local > store (except us Alaskans) for free, for pick up. They are less than > 20 dollars on walmart.com I think. > > Amber > > cat.rose wrote: > > > > Thank you Lenny! > > > > Well, my little guppy died last night... He was alive when I fed > > them, and then later I couldn't find him, but he was laying on the > > bottom in the back. > > > > I have been giving them all peas like you suggested. Hopefully this > > won't happen to any of the other fish. > > > > Here are answers to the help questionnaire: > > > > Tank size: 10 gal > > > > Tank inhabitants (number and type of fish or other aquatic life): 3 > > (now 2) guppies, 3 platy (1 is a 1/2 in baby that was recently > > discovered!), 2 GloFish Water change amount and when the last one > > was > > done: 25% PWC done weekly (last one was Wed 7/29) > > > > Filter maintenance and what exactly did you do: I follow the > > instructions on the box for replacing the 3 different filter mediums. > > About 2 weeks ago I took filter apart and cleaned parts thoroughly. > > > > How long the tank has been set up: February 2009 Water or filter > > additives or pH adjusters used: Cycle, Stress Coat (weekly). > > Used pH increase but stopped because it didn't seem to be working. > > > > Recent (within 2 weeks) changes or additions to the tank: Nutrifin > > Waste Control. I've used this twice which is supposed to help with > > pH, etc (not a Buffer, they were out of that product). > > > > Full description of the problem you have been having, including any > > odd behavior of the inhabitants or appearance of the tank or > > inhabitants. some common examples are: > > > > Fish behavior- > > breathing rapidly > > hanging at surface > > > > Fish appearance- > > bloated stomach > > > > Tank appearance- > > clear > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>, "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" > > <GoldLenny@> wrote: > > > > > > What else do you have in the tank that he is in? > > > > > > Try feeding him green pea "meat" which is a natural laxative to > > > most > > fish. I use frozen green peas but unsalted from a can will also work. > > Of course fresh work as well. Take a single pea and pinch the pea so > > the "meat" pops out of the skin, discard the skin and then mash up > > the two halves a little and feed a little to the guppy... as much as > > he will eat. Your other fish will also like this and it's OK to feed > > them pea "meat" as well.. even if they are not bloated. > > > > > > Now.. the bloating could be from more than simple constipation but > > lets eliminate that possibility first. He could be staying at the > > top of the tank due to swim bladder issues caused by the > > constipation and the gulping could just be from the added stress > > from not being able to control his buoyancy. Of course, all of these > > issues could also be related to internal bacterial or parasitic issues. > > > > > > Can you at least move him to a separate container of any type? > > > I've > > used clear Sterilite storage boxes for this purpose. When not being > > used for a Q-tank or H-tank, you can store your fish stuff in the box. > > > > > > While it's certainly best to have a fully set up H-tank, with a > > cycled filter, if none is available then a simple container that > > holds enough water for the size fish... a few gallons in the case of > > a single guppy... and an air stone to help circulate the water will > > at least give you an easier way to isolate and observe the guppy to > > see if he is pooping and what the poop looks like. Fish poop > > observation is a very good first step in trying to diagnose fish problems. > > > > > > Go to my blog and see my most recent blog which is a Sick Fish > > Questionnaire and give us as much info as possible and we can give > > more help. > > > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the > > right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by > > Year, Month) > > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On > > > Behalf Of cat.rose > > > Sent: Sunday, August 02, 2009 9:42 PM > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > Subject: [AquaticLife] Bloated Guppy > > > > > > My male guppy has been bloated for a couple days, and today he's > > stayed at the top of the tank gulping air constantly. He does not > > have any raised scales, and he's been eating. I don't have any other > > tank/equipment to move him to. > > > > > > Help please! > > > Catherine

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 42508	From: caroline	Date: 8/4/2009
Subject: Re: Re Re: Bloated Guppy (he died last night)

I am so sorry for your loss.. he is at rainbowsbridge..happily splashing about.. carolineee > > >Hi Amber, > >I have been using test strips (I just ran out >and have to buy more - Do you have a specific >brand of test strips that you recommend?). > >--The water is always hard. >--The pH is always low, and the pH increase doesn't seem to work. >--The nitrate has been a bit high. > >If you have any suggestions as to how to fix >these problems please let me know! > >Thanks, >Catherine > >--- In ><mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, >Amber Berglund <arberglund@...> wrote: > > > > Also do you have your own master test kit for testing pH, ammonia, > > nitrite, nitrate? If not you should look at getting one, they will be > > very handy at narrowing down your tank issues. > > You can order them from walmart.com and have them sent to your local > > store (except us Alaskans) for free, for pick up. They are less than 20 > > dollars on walmart.com I think. > > > > Amber > > > > cat.rose wrote: > > > > > > Thank you Lenny! > > > > > > Well, my little guppy died last night... He was alive when I fed them, > > > and then later I couldn't find him, but he was laying on the bottom in > > > the back. > > > > > > I have been giving them all peas like you suggested. Hopefully this > > > won't happen to any of the other fish. > > > > > > Here are answers to the help questionnaire: > > > > > > Tank size: 10 gal > > > > > > Tank inhabitants (number and type of fish or other aquatic life): 3 > > > (now 2) guppies, 3 platy (1 is a 1/2 in baby that was recently > > > discovered!), 2 GloFish Water change amount and when the last one was > > > done: 25% PWC done weekly (last one was Wed 7/29) > > > > > > Filter maintenance and what exactly did you do: I follow the > > > instructions on the box for replacing the 3 different filter mediums. > > > About 2 weeks ago I took filter apart and cleaned parts thoroughly. > > > > > > How long the tank has been set up: February 2009 Water or filter > > > additives or pH adjusters used: Cycle, Stress Coat (weekly). > > > Used pH increase but stopped because it didn't seem to be working. > > > > > > Recent (within 2 weeks) changes or additions to the tank: Nutrifin > > > Waste Control. I've used this twice which is supposed to help with pH, > > > etc (not a Buffer, they were out of that product). > > > > > > Full description of the problem you have been having, including any > > > odd behavior of the inhabitants or appearance of the tank or > > > inhabitants some common examples are: > > > > > > Fish behavior- > > > breathing rapidly > > > hanging at surface > > > > > > Fish appearance- > > > bloated stomach > > > > > > Tank appearance- > > > clear > > > > > > --- In <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>, "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" > > > <GoldLenny@> wrote: > > > > > > > > What else do you have in the tank that he is in? > > > > > > > > Try feeding him green pea "meat" which is a natural laxative to most > > > fish. I use frozen green peas but unsalted from a can will also work. > > > Of course fresh work as well. Take a single pea and pinch the pea so > > > the "meat" pops out of the skin, discard the skin and then mash up the > > > two halves a little and feed a little to the guppy... as much as he > > > will eat. Your other fish will also like this and it's OK to feed them > > > pea "meat" as well.. even if they are not bloated. > > > > > > > > Now.. the bloating could be from more than simple constipation but > > > lets eliminate that possibility first. He could be staying at the top > > > of the tank due to swim bladder issues caused by the constipation and > > > the gulping could just be from the added stress from not being able to > > > control his buoyancy. Of course, all of these issues could also be > > > related to internal bacterial or parasitic issues. > > > > > > > > Can you at least move him to a separate container of any type? I've > > > used clear Sterilite storage boxes for this purpose. When not being > > > used for a Q-tank or H-tank, you can store your fish stuff in the box. > > > > > > > > While it's certainly best to have a fully set up H-tank, with a > > > cycled filter, if none is available then a simple container that holds > > > enough water for the size fish... a few gallons in the case of a > > > single guppy... and an air stone to help circulate the water will at > > > least give you an easier way to isolate and observe the guppy to see > > > if he is pooping and what the poop looks like. Fish poop observation > > > is a very good first step in trying to diagnose fish problems. > > > > > > > > Go to my blog and see my most recent blog which is a Sick Fish > > > Questionnaire and give us as much info as possible and we can give > > > more help. > > > > > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > > > Fish Blog - > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > > (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the > > > right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by > > > Year, Month) > > > > > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > > From: > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > [mailto:<mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On > > > > Behalf Of cat.rose > > > > Sent: Sunday, August 02, 2009 9:42 PM > > > > To: > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > Subject: [AquaticLife] Bloated Guppy > > > > > > > > My male guppy has been bloated for a couple days, and today he's > > > stayed at the top of the tank gulping air constantly. He does not have > > > any raised scales, and he's been eating. I don't have any other > > > tank/equipment to move him to. > > > > > > > > Help please! > > > > Catherine > > > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 42509	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 8/4/2009
Subject: Re: "Well" Water..........

What is hard? What is your pH. Without actual numbers, we cannot really help you with concrete suggestions. Why do you want to raise the pH? The topic is well water. Is this water from a well you own or does it come from a town well? \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of cat.rose Sent: Tuesday, August 04, 2009 11:29 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: "Well" Water.......... Hi there, I live in New Jersey and the water here is HORRIBLE, so I use Britta filtered water. Is that okay for a 10 gallon freshwater tank? My test strips come out pretty good except the water is hard, and the pH needs to be higher but the pH Increase I tried hasn't seemed to do anything. Also the nitrate has been a bit high. Thanks! Catherine --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, bill 1433 <warrenprint@...> wrote: > > > Hi Jim, >   > Yes you can treat well water BUT--------you should first get a baseline for pH, Ammonia if present and also GH and KH if they have any.  With well water sometime you don't have any.  That was my problem.  To raise the pH and get some water hardness simply add either cuttle bone to the PF or crushed coral.  I have used both on two different tanks and like the coral better.  It is easier to maintain and will out last the cuttle bone. >   > To give you some idea of amount to use; my baseline water is 5.5 to 5.8.  In a 29 gallon tank, I am using 7 tablespoons in my PF and now have a pH of 7.0 with a GH and KH both at 3.  I change 5 gallons of water twice each week. >   > Jim, I have copper pipes too and when I change water I let it run a while both for temperature and copper content.  By this I mean that I have found that many times your reading the copper content of the "standing water" in the pipes.  IF you let it run a bit you might find you get a 0 reading, I did. >   > Bill > > --- On Mon, 8/3/09, Jim Pat. <Jpateson@...> wrote: > > > From: Jim Pat. <Jpateson@...> > Subject: [AquaticLife] "Well" Water.......... > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Date: Monday, August 3, 2009, 7:54 AM > > > > > I have a friend that is starting a tank, he has well water.  Does anyone have well water? How do you treat it, he found out that his PH is "very high" and there is copper in the water.  He had the water tested at Petsmart, he lives in a different state, I was not there for the testing or I would have taked it to a LFS. They are also telling him to use distilled water..... > > Thanks, > > Jim > > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 42510	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 8/5/2009
Subject: Re: "Well" Water..........

Basically what Steve is saying is that you're going to either get some more accurate way to test your water rather than test strips (they aren't always the most reliable way to test your tank, they get easily ruined with the slightest moisture). That's why everyone has been suggesting a master test kit, from API or I think Laborette has one too. API tends to be cheaper to get though, through walmart. They will last you for quite awhile and in the end will be less expensive than buying the test strips all the time. I still have the same test kit I bought last fall for around 25 dollars with shipping (since I live in Alaska). Amber Steve Szabo wrote: > > > What is hard? What is your pH. Without actual numbers, we cannot > really help you with concrete suggestions. Why do you want to raise > the pH? The topic is well water. Is this water from a well you own or > does it come from a town well? > > \\Steve// > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On Behalf Of cat.rose > Sent: Tuesday, August 04, 2009 11:29 AM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: "Well" Water.......... > > Hi there, > > I live in New Jersey and the water here is HORRIBLE, so I use Britta > filtered water. Is that okay for a 10 gallon freshwater tank? > > My test strips come out pretty good except the water is hard, and the > pH needs to be higher but the pH Increase I tried hasn't seemed to do > anything. Also the nitrate has been a bit high. > > Thanks! > Catherine > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>, bill 1433 <warrenprint@...> wrote: > > > > > > Hi Jim, > > > > Yes you can treat well water BUT--------you should first get a > baseline for pH, Ammonia if present and also GH and KH if they have > any. With well water sometime you don't have any. That was my > problem. To raise the pH and get some water hardness simply add > either cuttle bone to the PF or crushed coral. I have used both on > two different tanks and like the coral better. It is easier to > maintain and will out last the cuttle bone. > > > > To give you some idea of amount to use; my baseline water is 5.5 to > 5.8. In a 29 gallon tank, I am using 7 tablespoons in my PF and now > have a pH of 7.0 with a GH and KH both at 3. I change 5 gallons of > water twice each week. > > > > Jim, I have copper pipes too and when I change water I let it run a > while both for temperature and copper content. By this I mean that I > have found that many times your reading the copper content of the > "standing water" in the pipes. IF you let it run a bit you might find > you get a 0 reading, I did. > > > > Bill > > > > --- On Mon, 8/3/09, Jim Pat. <Jpateson@...> wrote: > > > > > > From: Jim Pat. <Jpateson@...> > > Subject: [AquaticLife] "Well" Water.......... > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > Date: Monday, August 3, 2009, 7:54 AM > > > > > > > > > > I have a friend that is starting a tank, he has well water. Does > anyone have well water? How do you treat it, he found out that his PH > is "very high" and there is copper in the water. He had the water > tested at Petsmart, he lives in a different state, I was not there for > the testing or I would have taked it to a LFS. They are also telling > him to use distilled water..... > > > > Thanks, > > > > Jim > > > > > > > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 42511	From: piabinha	Date: 8/5/2009
Subject: transparent knife fish

does anyone keep these gymnotiformes? please share your experience, in particular in regards to feeding. thanks. piaba

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 42512	From: gail	Date: 8/5/2009
Subject: Frontosa Cichlids

How many people out there are keeping these fish currently. I have considered getting one. Can't you just keep one? thanks, Gail   [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 42513	From: Deenerz@aol.com	Date: 8/5/2009
Subject: Re: Frontosa Cichlids

I had a colony of Burundi for about 5 years, and am now growing out a new smaller colony of Kigoma. I say had a colony of Burndi until an overzealous family member over fed them. Now no one feeds the fish but me, no exceptions. Duboisi.com is a great resource for Frontosa. Check it out. -Mike -----Original Message----- From: gail <clandestine662002@...> To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Wed, Aug 5, 2009 3:58 pm Subject: [AquaticLife] Frontosa Cichlids How many people out there are keeping these fish currently. I have considered getting one. Can't you just keep one? thanks, Gail   [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 42514	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 8/5/2009
Subject: Re: Frontosa Cichlids

Gail, Besides Mike's reply and info, also look back or do a search of the group's archives. Within the past couple of weeks, I posted a long reply to someone else about Burundi Frontosas with links to several other resources, care sheets, etc. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of gail Sent: Wednesday, August 05, 2009 5:58 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Frontosa Cichlids How many people out there are keeping these fish currently. I have considered getting one. Can't you just keep one? thanks, Gail

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 42515	From: Donna Ransome	Date: 8/5/2009
Subject: Re: Frontosa Cichlids

Make sure you have a 72” tank, LOL. And I do think they prefer groups. _____ From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of gail Sent: Wednesday, August 05, 2009 6:58 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Frontosa Cichlids How many people out there are keeping these fish currently. I have considered getting one. Can't you just keep one? thanks, Gail [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 42516	From: incantashia	Date: 8/5/2009
Subject: what is a single tail fin telescope goldfish called?

My (2nd gen)Black Moores have populated my pond with their kids,Im finding single tailfined fry...its soo funny to see them.my fish(the parent fish) are from a 4 year old butterfly black moor and a 6 year old Broadtailed panda.so Is there a name for a single tail fin telescope? thanks Debby

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 42517	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 8/5/2009
Subject: Re: transparent knife fish

Do you have a Genus and Species name? Do you think "transparent" is just another common name for "glass" as I've seen many references to "glass" knife fish and here is Mongabay's http://fish.mongabay.com/species/Eigenmannia_virescens.html. You will see that they mostly eat insects, worms, snails & crustaceans and smaller fish. Here is Mongabay's profile page on Knife Fish, including the "Glass Knife Fish" which is detailed around half way down the page. Their profiles include information such as feeding, etc. http://fish.mongabay.com/knifefish.htm Here's a long and detailed summary about Knife Fish including several paragraphs on Feeding. http://www.novelguide.com/a/discover/grze_04/grze_04_00267.html Here is FishBase's profile on the Glass Knife Fish. http://www.fishbase.org/summary/SpeciesSummary.php?id=12221 which includes a link in the More Info section to Diet which details the stomach contents of two of these fish from the wild: http://www.fishbase.org/trophiceco/DietCompoSummary.php?dietcode=2998&genusn ame=Eigenmannia&speciesname=virescens Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of piabinha Sent: Wednesday, August 05, 2009 1:28 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] transparent knife fish does anyone keep these gymnotiformes? please share your experience, in particular in regards to feeding. thanks. piaba

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 42518	From: Dora Smith	Date: 8/5/2009
Subject: Re: what is a single tail fin telescope goldfish called?

A fish with one fin. .... running... Yours, Dora Smith Austin, TX tiggernut24@... ----- Original Message ----- From: "incantashia" <debdemona@...> To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Wednesday, August 05, 2009 9:40 PM Subject: [AquaticLife] what is a single tail fin telescope goldfish called? My (2nd gen)Black Moores have populated my pond with their kids,Im finding single tailfined fry...its soo funny to see them.my fish(the parent fish) are from a 4 year old butterfly black moor and a 6 year old Broadtailed panda.so Is there a name for a single tail fin telescope? thanks Debby ------------------------------------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the home page. Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com to receive the digest, which includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com for the No E-Mail option where you will still be able to read messages on the group and post replies. Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com to receive individual e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 42519	From: Lisa	Date: 8/5/2009
Subject: I'm getting my first house :)

Hi all This is a topic that has been raised many times before I'm sure. But now it's my turn. I'm getting my first house in three months. So what do I do to transport my tank and my fish safely? Thanks Lisa

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 42520	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 8/5/2009
Subject: Re: what is a single tail fin telescope goldfish called?

Debby asked: "Is there a name for a single tail fin telescope?" An attempted reversion back to normalcy. ;-) You must remember that ALL goldfish are the same exact species and that only through selective inbreeding of normal goldfish that were born with some kind of mutation, did all of the various other mutations emerge... but they all still carry the genetics of the primary species. Even when breeding two Black Moores, you will sometimes get "normal" goldfish which are culled out by breeders and these normal goldfish are sold as feeder goldfish. Since your fry are crossbreeds of two other inbred and mutated goldfish, you can only expect to get some new mutations, some that will look like one parent, some that will look like the other parent and some that will go back to being semi-normal. Most breeders would not encourage this kind of crossbreeding unless you were trying to come up with a new mutation but then it would take inbreeding your new mutations for several generations and culling the normal goldfish out until you are getting mostly the new mutation. Personally, while I own and/or have owned both long-body "normal" goldfish and round-body "fancy" goldfish, I kind of wish people/breeders would leave the species alone as these mutated "fancy" goldfish have significantly shorter lifespans and many more health issues related to the inbreeding and mutations. Inbreeding and mutations should be left to sci-fi movies... oh yeah, and movies about back-woods-Smokey-mountain-redneck-type families. "You know you're a redneck when you go to a family reunion to pick up chicks!" - Jeff Foxworthy LOL Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of incantashia Sent: Wednesday, August 05, 2009 9:41 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] what is a single tail fin telescope goldfish called? My (2nd gen)Black Moores have populated my pond with their kids,Im finding single tailfined fry...its soo funny to see them.my fish(the parent fish) are from a 4 year old butterfly black moor and a 6 year old Broadtailed panda.so Is there a name for a single tail fin telescope? thanks Debby

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 42521	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 8/5/2009
Subject: Re: I'm getting my first house :)

There's many ways to do this. Here's a few. http://www.thetropicaltank.co.uk/moving_fish.htm http://www.plecofanatics.com/forum/showthread.php?t=11321 http://www.myfishtank.net/forum/freshwater-general-discussion/28882-i-moved- 3-000-miles-my-fish-update-after-move.html Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Lisa Sent: Wednesday, August 05, 2009 11:02 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] I'm getting my first house :) Hi all This is a topic that has been raised many times before I'm sure. But now it's my turn. I'm getting my first house in three months. So what do I do to transport my tank and my fish safely? Thanks Lisa

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 42522	From: bill 1433	Date: 8/6/2009
Subject: Re: I'm getting my first house :)

Hi Lisa,   First, your being very smart to attack this problem now and not later.  You could give more information on fish, size of tank, what have you.  But we will look at the problem in its simplest form.  Without sending you all over the Internet, there is really only one problem.  The WATER at the new location!  If you already know what it is and the parameter's match yours, then there is no real problem, save for a few sore backs!  BUT  If the water DOES NOT match, you do have a problem but not an insurmountable one.    If the new water is way out of your current range the very best way to handle it, at least at first, is not too.  Simply get clean plastic buckets, containers anything, which can hold water and drain the tanks down put the fish, plants, into the buckets, take out the gravel but leave it covered in water, move the tank, reset it and fill with the OLD water.  If you do this quickly enough, especially now in the summer months, the temperature will not drop that much.  Its a good idea to leave yourself working room temperature wise by turning down the original tank temperature a few degree's a week or so prior to the actual move, and cut back a bit on the feeding also until you get the fish to their new location.  Clean your filters about two weeks before the move but not at the move, just keep them wet with old tank water.  In other words don't clean them again, until you get to the new home and reset everything for about two weeks and do not overfeed.  The fish will be stressed enough with the move and you don't want to invite more trouble with fouled tank water.  Then start mixing your water as I have described in the next paragraph.   Now for the tough part, if the water in your new home is not even close to what you have now there are a couple of choice's you can make.  One is to change it, by doctoring your water with additives, to achieve the same parameters as the new location OR, if possible, obtain new water from your new location and begin mixing it s-l-o-w-l-y before the move.  Just a bit at a time.  Remember though, that if these parameters are way out of range from what you have now, you may lose fish just because they can not live in those type of parameters.  Again, you did not say what size tank your moving or the fish your moving either but I would say to mix it safely in any size tank, no more that a gallon or so over a 3 day period.  Some of the more delicate ones like Discus require great care.  The most important thing to remember is to keep the stress level down.  Yours, as well as the fishes!   If you have more questions just ask,   Bill --- On Thu, 8/6/09, Lisa <lisa_lawless2004@...> wrote: From: Lisa <lisa_lawless2004@...> Subject: [AquaticLife] I'm getting my first house :) To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Date: Thursday, August 6, 2009, 12:02 AM Hi all This is a topic that has been raised many times before I'm sure. But now it's my turn. I'm getting my first house in three months. So what do I do to transport my tank and my fish safely? Thanks Lisa ------------------------------------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the home page.  Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com to receive the digest, which includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com for the No E-Mail option where you will still be able to read messages on the group and post replies. Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com to receive individual e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 42523	From: incantashia	Date: 8/6/2009
Subject: Re: what is a single tail fin telescope goldfish called?

LOL ...Good Morning Dora Yea I have had the grandparents of these fish for years(got them when they were lil guys too) a beautiful butterfly black Moor and a beautiful broadtailed Panda Black moor.The broadtailed actually stayed soild black for years and she had a tiny white on her bottom of her stomach which over the years slowly crept up on her sides. these 2 fish populated my 100g with fry also and i kept 2 which turned out to be broadtails as well. I would love to see if these new fry are going to have the telescope eyes and are going to be single fin moors.AlSo If there isnt a name or a breed for them(single tailfin telescope) maybe ill just have to come up with something. these lil guys with the single tail will be going to new homes not as feeders though. to a home where someone can admire them, smile at them and give them a name. have a good day Debby --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Dora Smith" <tiggernut24@...> wrote: > > A fish with one fin. > > .... running... > > Yours, > Dora Smith > Austin, TX > tiggernut24@... > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "incantashia" <debdemona@...> > To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com> > Sent: Wednesday, August 05, 2009 9:40 PM > Subject: [AquaticLife] what is a single tail fin telescope goldfish called? > > > My (2nd gen)Black Moores have populated my pond with their kids,Im finding > single tailfined fry...its soo funny to see them.my fish(the parent fish) > are from a 4 year old butterfly black moor and a 6 year old Broadtailed > panda.so Is there a name for a single tail fin telescope? > thanks > Debby > > > > ------------------------------------ > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. > ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> > PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to > the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT > LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- > <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. > > If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of unsubscribing, you > can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the > home page. > > Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com to receive the digest, which > includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email > > Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com for the No E-Mail option where > you will still be able to read messages on the group and post replies. > > Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com to receive individual > e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 42524	From: Courtland Jacob	Date: 8/6/2009
Subject: Re: I'm getting my first house :)

I have had to do this recently with 3 tanks, and it wasn't as hard as you might think, the big thing is making sure you have help to carry the tank. I suggest taking out as much water as you would do a water change, but don't vaccuum the gravel, the detritus will help after you move the tank, just make sure you give it a good cleaning a few weeks after you've moved in. someone told me you can put all the fish in a bucket, I bagged them and it seemed to work just fine. remove all the water and decore and try to keep as much of the decor wet as possible, along with anyhting else that might contain the bio filter, like bio wheels if you have them and leave enough water to keep the gravel wet in the tank. doing it at night will help reduce stress and oxygen levels are also higher at night so it will help. whatever you do, do not try to move a tank with a lot of water because it will break the seal --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Lisa" <lisa_lawless2004@...> wrote: > > Hi all > This is a topic that has been raised many times before I'm sure. > But now it's my turn. > I'm getting my first house in three months. > So what do I do to transport my tank and my fish safely? > > Thanks > Lisa >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 42525	From: piabinha	Date: 8/6/2009
Subject: Re: transparent knife fish

yeah, that's the only fish in the hobby that is known as transparent knife fish (Eigenmannia virescens). thanks for the info. piaba

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 42526	From: nicurns@bellsouth.net	Date: 8/6/2009
Subject: ??? Re: what is a single tail fin telescope goldfish called?

Debby, Do you keep the black moors in the pond year round????? If so, where do you live? I have been able to keep my fan tail's in the pond year round here in SC, but have not tried the more "fancy" goldfish. We also have a Lionchu, aka: lionhead-ranchu that I would like to rehome outdoors, but it concerns me how he will do over the winter. Most lionchu are slow movers, but this big guy doesn't have any issues fighting/chasing after his share of food so I know he would hold his own with the others in the pond. Just the temp thing concerns me.... James S. AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "incantashia" <debdemona@...> wrote: > > LOL ...Good Morning Dora > Yea I have had the grandparents of these fish for years(got them when they were lil guys too) a beautiful butterfly black Moor and a beautiful broadtailed Panda Black moor.The broadtailed actually stayed soild black for years and she had a tiny white on her bottom of her stomach which over the years slowly crept up on her sides. these 2 fish populated my 100g with fry also and i kept 2 which turned out to be broadtails as well. > I would love to see if these new fry are going to have the telescope eyes and are going to be single fin moors.AlSo If there isnt a name or a breed for them(single tailfin telescope) maybe ill just have to come up with something. > these lil guys with the single tail will be going to new homes not as feeders though. to a home where someone can admire them, smile at them and give them a name. > > have a good day > Debby > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Dora Smith" <tiggernut24@> wrote: > > > > A fish with one fin. > > > > .... running... > > > > Yours, > > Dora Smith > > Austin, TX > > tiggernut24@ > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: "incantashia" <debdemona@> > > To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com> > > Sent: Wednesday, August 05, 2009 9:40 PM > > Subject: [AquaticLife] what is a single tail fin telescope goldfish called? > > > > > > My (2nd gen)Black Moores have populated my pond with their kids,Im finding > > single tailfined fry...its soo funny to see them.my fish(the parent fish) > > are from a 4 year old butterfly black moor and a 6 year old Broadtailed > > panda.so Is there a name for a single tail fin telescope? > > thanks > > Debby > > > > > > > > ------------------------------------ > > > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. > > ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> > > PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to > > the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT > > LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- > > <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. > > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. > > > > If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of unsubscribing, you > > can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the > > home page. > > > > Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com to receive the digest, which > > includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email > > > > Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com for the No E-Mail option where > > you will still be able to read messages on the group and post replies. > > > > Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com to receive individual > > e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links > > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 42527	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 8/6/2009
Subject: Re: I'm getting my first house :)

If you want to prepare ahead of time you can start bringing some of the new water over to where you live now (if you have access to the new house) and start using it for small PWC's to slowly get the fish used to it, that way when you move them you can use some of the "fresh" new water at the new house to fill it up and not have to worry about shocking anyone too badly. Amber Courtland Jacob wrote: > > > I have had to do this recently with 3 tanks, and it wasn't as hard as > you might think, the big thing is making sure you have help to carry > the tank. I suggest taking out as much water as you would do a water > change, but don't vaccuum the gravel, the detritus will help after you > move the tank, just make sure you give it a good cleaning a few weeks > after you've moved in. someone told me you can put all the fish in a > bucket, I bagged them and it seemed to work just fine. remove all the > water and decore and try to keep as much of the decor wet as possible, > along with anyhting else that might contain the bio filter, like bio > wheels if you have them and leave enough water to keep the gravel wet > in the tank. doing it at night will help reduce stress and oxygen > levels are also higher at night so it will help. whatever you do, do > not try to move a tank with a lot of water because it will break the seal > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>, "Lisa" <lisa_lawless2004@...> > wrote: > > > > Hi all > > This is a topic that has been raised many times before I'm sure. > > But now it's my turn. > > I'm getting my first house in three months. > > So what do I do to transport my tank and my fish safely? > > > > Thanks > > Lisa > > > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 42528	From: gail	Date: 8/6/2009
Subject: Bala shark mishap!!

So, I got some sad news today. My husband came home to find my large Bala Shark - dead in the middle of the kitchen floor!! Oh so sad!!! He said he was stiff as a board and was confused as to how he got to the kitchen. The only theory I can come up with is that he flipped himself out of my tank and was flopping around on the floor - that is how he made his way to the kitchen a few feet away. So sad! Any ideas guys??? Was my fish suicidal or sick, maybe?   thank goodness I didn't have to see him that way (dead) I will miss Spock. Thanks Gail [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 42529	From: Gail	Date: 8/6/2009
Subject: Re: Frontosa Cichlids

thanks for reminding me about that post, it did have some good links in it. Especially the one on monsterfishkeeper. I just noticed that my LFS had a bunch on sale recently - $16.99 each. And I have been considering them, however i think I would need to do more rock decor in my tank, and maybe trade in some fish, before I decide to get one. But that is a great deal, don't you think? Also, they are only 3" big, right now. :) thanks, gail --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@...> wrote: > > Gail, > > Besides Mike's reply and info, also look back or do a search of the group's > archives. Within the past couple of weeks, I posted a long reply to someone > else about Burundi Frontosas with links to several other resources, care > sheets, etc. > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right > side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) > > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On > Behalf Of gail > Sent: Wednesday, August 05, 2009 5:58 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Subject: [AquaticLife] Frontosa Cichlids > > How many people out there are keeping these fish currently. I have > considered getting one. Can't you just keep one? > > thanks, > > Gail >   >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 42530	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 8/6/2009
Subject: Re: Bala shark mishap!!

Some fish will jump out of an open tank, some are just less likely to do so. If you have fish that can jump it's always best to keep a solid lid on the tank so they can't somehow get out. Or if you can't do that, you can get a lot of floating plants that will help decrease the chances of a fish jumping out at least,a s they will feel more secure with the covering over the water (remember in the wild they would be caught by birds and such above them), so it's natural to hide, instinct. Amber gail wrote: > > > So, I got some sad news today. My husband came home to find my large > Bala Shark - dead in the middle of the kitchen floor!! Oh so sad!!! He > said he was stiff as a board and was confused as to how he got to the > kitchen. The only theory I can come up with is that he flipped himself > out of my tank and was flopping around on the floor - that is how he > made his way to the kitchen a few feet away. > So sad! Any ideas guys??? Was my fish suicidal or sick, maybe? > > thank goodness I didn't have to see him that way (dead) I will miss Spock. > > Thanks > Gail > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 42531	From: harry perry	Date: 8/6/2009
Subject: Re: Bala shark mishap!!/Gail

Your shark suffered from missingcoveritis. You never know who will jump and for what reason. Harry --- On Thu, 8/6/09, gail <clandestine662002@...> wrote: From: gail <clandestine662002@...> Subject: [AquaticLife] Bala shark mishap!! To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Date: Thursday, August 6, 2009, 5:41 PM   So, I got some sad news today. My husband came home to find my large Bala Shark - dead in the middle of the kitchen floor!! Oh so sad!!! He said he was stiff as a board and was confused as to how he got to the kitchen. The only theory I can come up with is that he flipped himself out of my tank and was flopping around on the floor - that is how he made his way to the kitchen a few feet away. So sad! Any ideas guys??? Was my fish suicidal or sick, maybe?   thank goodness I didn't have to see him that way (dead) I will miss Spock. Thanks Gail [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 42532	From: Gail	Date: 8/6/2009
Subject: Re: Bala shark mishap!!/Gail

Yeah, no cover. It's kind of an interesting set up, if you want to see my pic of it, it's in the photo section. Or here is a link: http://d.yimg.com/kq/groups/8495157/sn/565683205/name/MISC2008+097.jpg however this is an early pic - before my crazy Bala Shark was introduced. It has a unique light fixture on it. Maybe I need some duckweed? Where can I get that? -gail --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, harry perry <harryfisherman@...> wrote: > > Your shark suffered from missingcoveritis. You never know who will jump and for what reason. > > Harry > > --- On Thu, 8/6/09, gail <clandestine662002@...> wrote: > > From: gail <clandestine662002@...> > Subject: [AquaticLife] Bala shark mishap!! > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Date: Thursday, August 6, 2009, 5:41 PM > > > > > > >   > > > > > > So, I got some sad news today. My husband came home to find my large Bala Shark - dead in the middle of the kitchen floor!! Oh so sad!!! He said he was stiff as a board and was confused as to how he got to the kitchen. The only theory I can come up with is that he flipped himself out of my tank and was flopping around on the floor - that is how he made his way to the kitchen a few feet away. > > So sad! Any ideas guys??? Was my fish suicidal or sick, maybe? > >   > > thank goodness I didn't have to see him that way (dead) I will miss Spock. > > > > Thanks > > Gail > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 42533	From: harry perry	Date: 8/6/2009
Subject: Re: Bala shark mishap!!/Gail/again

Looks like a bow front. Going to be an expensive cover. I wouldn't use duckweed unless you plan on never getting rid of it. Try your local LFS. Tell them you want a lowlight floating plant. They will have something. Duckweed is very difficult to get rid of once it starts. I would stay away from it. Harry --- On Thu, 8/6/09, Gail <clandestine662002@...> wrote: From: Gail <clandestine662002@...> Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Bala shark mishap!!/Gail To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Date: Thursday, August 6, 2009, 6:25 PM   Yeah, no cover. It's kind of an interesting set up, if you want to see my pic of it, it's in the photo section. Or here is a link: http://d.yimg com/kq/groups/ 8495157/sn/ 565683205/ name/MISC2008+ 097.jpg however this is an early pic - before my crazy Bala Shark was introduced. It has a unique light fixture on it. Maybe I need some duckweed? Where can I get that? -gail --- In AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com, harry perry <harryfisherman@ ...> wrote: > > Your shark suffered from missingcoveritis. You never know who will jump and for what reason. > > Harry > > --- On Thu, 8/6/09, gail <clandestine662002@ ...> wrote: > > From: gail <clandestine662002@ ...> > Subject: [AquaticLife] Bala shark mishap!! > To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com > Date: Thursday, August 6, 2009, 5:41 PM > > > > > > >   > > > > > > So, I got some sad news today. My husband came home to find my large Bala Shark - dead in the middle of the kitchen floor!! Oh so sad!!! He said he was stiff as a board and was confused as to how he got to the kitchen. The only theory I can come up with is that he flipped himself out of my tank and was flopping around on the floor - that is how he made his way to the kitchen a few feet away. > > So sad! Any ideas guys??? Was my fish suicidal or sick, maybe? > >   > > thank goodness I didn't have to see him that way (dead) I will miss Spock. > > > > Thanks > > Gail > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 42534	From: TOM JONES	Date: 8/6/2009
Subject: Re: I'm getting my first house :)

Can some one please unsubscribe me thanks Tom Jones To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com From: arberglund@... Date: Thu, 6 Aug 2009 13:26:28 -0800 Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: I'm getting my first house :) If you want to prepare ahead of time you can start bringing some of the new water over to where you live now (if you have access to the new house) and start using it for small PWC's to slowly get the fish used to it, that way when you move them you can use some of the "fresh" new water at the new house to fill it up and not have to worry about shocking anyone too badly. Amber Courtland Jacob wrote: > > > I have had to do this recently with 3 tanks, and it wasn't as hard as > you might think, the big thing is making sure you have help to carry > the tank. I suggest taking out as much water as you would do a water > change, but don't vaccuum the gravel, the detritus will help after you > move the tank, just make sure you give it a good cleaning a few weeks > after you've moved in. someone told me you can put all the fish in a > bucket, I bagged them and it seemed to work just fine. remove all the > water and decore and try to keep as much of the decor wet as possible, > along with anyhting else that might contain the bio filter, like bio > wheels if you have them and leave enough water to keep the gravel wet > in the tank. doing it at night will help reduce stress and oxygen > levels are also higher at night so it will help. whatever you do, do > not try to move a tank with a lot of water because it will break the seal > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>, "Lisa" <lisa_lawless2004@...> > wrote: > > > > Hi all > > This is a topic that has been raised many times before I'm sure. > > But now it's my turn. > > I'm getting my first house in three months. > > So what do I do to transport my tank and my fish safely? > > > > Thanks > > Lisa > > > > _________________________________________________________________ Send and receive email from all of your webmail accounts. http://go.microsoft.com/?linkid=9671356 [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 42535	From: LI Octopi	Date: 8/6/2009
Subject: Re: I'm getting my first house :)

I think if you go all the way to the bottom of any message you can click on the "unsubscribe" link. Good luck! Sorry to see you go.   }(((>~~* .·:*¨~MóNi'~¨*:·. ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~            ><((((º>·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º> <º))))><·´¯`·.¸¸.<º((((><                    ><))))º>.·´¯`·.¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.<º))))><·´¯`·.¸<º((((><          ________________________________ From: TOM JONES <number1closer69@...> To: aquaticlife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Thursday, August 6, 2009 5:47:17 PM Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: I'm getting my first house :)   Can some one please unsubscribe me thanks Tom Jones To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com From: arberglund@gmail. com Date: Thu, 6 Aug 2009 13:26:28 -0800 Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: I'm getting my first house :) If you want to prepare ahead of time you can start bringing some of the new water over to where you live now (if you have access to the new house) and start using it for small PWC's to slowly get the fish used to it, that way when you move them you can use some of the "fresh" new water at the new house to fill it up and not have to worry about shocking anyone too badly. Amber Courtland Jacob wrote: > > > I have had to do this recently with 3 tanks, and it wasn't as hard as > you might think, the big thing is making sure you have help to carry > the tank. I suggest taking out as much water as you would do a water > change, but don't vaccuum the gravel, the detritus will help after you > move the tank, just make sure you give it a good cleaning a few weeks > after you've moved in. someone told me you can put all the fish in a > bucket, I bagged them and it seemed to work just fine. remove all the > water and decore and try to keep as much of the decor wet as possible, > along with anyhting else that might contain the bio filter, like bio > wheels if you have them and leave enough water to keep the gravel wet > in the tank. doing it at night will help reduce stress and oxygen > levels are also higher at night so it will help. whatever you do, do > not try to move a tank with a lot of water because it will break the seal > > --- In AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com > <mailto:AquaticLife %40yahoogroups. com>, "Lisa" <lisa_lawless2004@ ...> > wrote: > > > > Hi all > > This is a topic that has been raised many times before I'm sure. > > But now it's my turn. > > I'm getting my first house in three months. > > So what do I do to transport my tank and my fish safely? > > > > Thanks > > Lisa > > > > ____________ _________ _________ _________ _________ _________ _ Send and receive email from all of your webmail accounts. http://go.microsoft .com/?linkid= 9671356 [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 42536	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 8/6/2009
Subject: Re: Bala shark mishap!!

There's always a chance he just decided to jump for joy and didn't realize the repercussions... BUT.. also check your water parameters to make sure everything is where they should be... ammonia, nitrite at 0.0ppm and nitrate less than 40ppm, pH where it usually is, etc. What size tank? Was it covered or did he happen to find an opening? What else is in the tank? Any predators of the Bala that he was trying to avoid? How long have you had him? Last but not least, Scotty could be hitting the sauce again and decided to transport him into the kitchen and then passed out before transporting him back to the tank. <G> Oh yeah... and so much for "Live long and prosper". ;-) Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of gail Sent: Thursday, August 06, 2009 4:42 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Bala shark mishap!! So, I got some sad news today. My husband came home to find my large Bala Shark - dead in the middle of the kitchen floor!! Oh so sad!!! He said he was stiff as a board and was confused as to how he got to the kitchen. The only theory I can come up with is that he flipped himself out of my tank and was flopping around on the floor - that is how he made his way to the kitchen a few feet away. So sad! Any ideas guys??? Was my fish suicidal or sick, maybe?   thank goodness I didn't have to see him that way (dead) I will miss Spock. Thanks Gail

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 42537	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 8/6/2009
Subject: Re: I'm getting my first house :)

You can do this several ways. One simple way, which is included at the bottom of every email sent out by the group is to simply send an email to AquaticLife-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com, from the email account that is subscribed. You can also go to the group's website at http://groups.yahoo.com/group/aquaticlife and sign in, then "Edit My Membership" to either go NoMail or the Daily Digest or Unsub. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of TOM JONES Sent: Thursday, August 06, 2009 4:47 PM To: aquaticlife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: I'm getting my first house :) Can some one please unsubscribe me thanks Tom Jones To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com From: arberglund@... Date: Thu, 6 Aug 2009 13:26:28 -0800 Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: I'm getting my first house :) If you want to prepare ahead of time you can start bringing some of the new water over to where you live now (if you have access to the new house) and start using it for small PWC's to slowly get the fish used to it, that way when you move them you can use some of the "fresh" new water at the new house to fill it up and not have to worry about shocking anyone too badly. Amber Courtland Jacob wrote: > > > I have had to do this recently with 3 tanks, and it wasn't as hard as > you might think, the big thing is making sure you have help to carry > the tank. I suggest taking out as much water as you would do a water > change, but don't vaccuum the gravel, the detritus will help after you > move the tank, just make sure you give it a good cleaning a few weeks > after you've moved in. someone told me you can put all the fish in a > bucket, I bagged them and it seemed to work just fine. remove all the > water and decore and try to keep as much of the decor wet as possible, > along with anyhting else that might contain the bio filter, like bio > wheels if you have them and leave enough water to keep the gravel wet > in the tank. doing it at night will help reduce stress and oxygen > levels are also higher at night so it will help. whatever you do, do > not try to move a tank with a lot of water because it will break the > seal > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>, "Lisa" <lisa_lawless2004@...> > wrote: > > > > Hi all > > This is a topic that has been raised many times before I'm sure. > > But now it's my turn. > > I'm getting my first house in three months. > > So what do I do to transport my tank and my fish safely? > > > > Thanks > > Lisa > > > > _________________________________________________________________ Send and receive email from all of your webmail accounts. http://go.microsoft.com/?linkid=9671356 [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] ------------------------------------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the home page. Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com to receive the digest, which includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com for the No E-Mail option where you will still be able to read messages on the group and post replies. Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com to receive individual e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 42538	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 8/6/2009
Subject: Re: Bala shark mishap!!/Gail

Anyone who has Duckweed will give you extra, trust me ;) LOL Amber Gail wrote: > > > Yeah, no cover. It's kind of an interesting set up, if you want to see > my pic of it, it's in the photo section. Or here is a link: > > http://d.yimg.com/kq/groups/8495157/sn/565683205/name/MISC2008+097.jpg > <http://d.yimg.com/kq/groups/8495157/sn/565683205/name/MISC2008+097.jpg> > > however this is an early pic - before my crazy Bala Shark was > introduced. It has a unique light fixture on it. > Maybe I need some duckweed? Where can I get that? > > -gail > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>, harry perry > <harryfisherman@...> wrote: > > > > Your shark suffered from missingcoveritis. You never know who will > jump and for what reason. > > > > Harry > > > > --- On Thu, 8/6/09, gail <clandestine662002@...> wrote: > > > > From: gail <clandestine662002@...> > > Subject: [AquaticLife] Bala shark mishap!! > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > Date: Thursday, August 6, 2009, 5:41 PM > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > So, I got some sad news today. My husband came home to find my large > Bala Shark - dead in the middle of the kitchen floor!! Oh so sad!!! He > said he was stiff as a board and was confused as to how he got to the > kitchen. The only theory I can come up with is that he flipped himself > out of my tank and was flopping around on the floor - that is how he > made his way to the kitchen a few feet away. > > > > So sad! Any ideas guys??? Was my fish suicidal or sick, maybe? > > > > > > > > thank goodness I didn't have to see him that way (dead) I will miss > Spock. > > > > > > > > Thanks > > > > Gail > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 42539	From: incantashia	Date: 8/6/2009
Subject: ??? Re: what is a single tail fin telescope goldfish called?

Hello James I live in Sacramento California and they do weather here all year in the ground.my pond has the offsping of my aquarium goldfish the broadtail/butterfly moores in it and a butterfly telescope that you would think is white, but she has the slightest hint of gold to her with ruby eyes and then there are my 2 orange stargazers. I first thought the fry where the offspring of the moors but looking at them more closer(I have been sitting on the edge of the pond watching them) i think they are of the moor and one of the stargazers by the body type, some of the young have stargazer long bodies and tail fin also the fact that one of them is missing part of his back fin. I did give away 2 of the lil guys today but they had plump bodies and single tail fin they are to young still for there eyes to pop out or turn up. Stargazers have always been my favorite goldfish and the funny thing is when people come over they see them and they never knew they were a goldfish and i have never had anyone not say they werent cute have a good day Debby --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "nicurns@..." <james_kristi@...> wrote: > > Debby, Do you keep the black moors in the pond year round????? If so, where do you live? > I have been able to keep my fan tail's in the pond year round here in SC, but have not tried the more "fancy" goldfish. We also have a Lionchu, aka: lionhead-ranchu that I would like to rehome outdoors, but it concerns me how he will do over the winter. Most lionchu are slow movers, but this big guy doesn't have any issues fighting/chasing after his share of food so I know he would hold his own with the others in the pond. Just the temp thing concerns me.... > > James S. > > AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "incantashia" <debdemona@> wrote: > > > > LOL ...Good Morning Dora > > Yea I have had the grandparents of these fish for years(got them when they were lil guys too) a beautiful butterfly black Moor and a beautiful broadtailed Panda Black moor.The broadtailed actually stayed soild black for years and she had a tiny white on her bottom of her stomach which over the years slowly crept up on her sides. these 2 fish populated my 100g with fry also and i kept 2 which turned out to be broadtails as well. > > I would love to see if these new fry are going to have the telescope eyes and are going to be single fin moors.AlSo If there isnt a name or a breed for them(single tailfin telescope) maybe ill just have to come up with something. > > these lil guys with the single tail will be going to new homes not as feeders though. to a home where someone can admire them, smile at them and give them a name. > > > > have a good day > > Debby > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Dora Smith" <tiggernut24@> wrote: > > > > > > A fish with one fin. > > > > > > .... running... > > > > > > Yours, > > > Dora Smith > > > Austin, TX > > > tiggernut24@ > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > From: "incantashia" <debdemona@> > > > To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com> > > > Sent: Wednesday, August 05, 2009 9:40 PM > > > Subject: [AquaticLife] what is a single tail fin telescope goldfish called? > > > > > > > > > My (2nd gen)Black Moores have populated my pond with their kids,Im finding > > > single tailfined fry...its soo funny to see them.my fish(the parent fish) > > > are from a 4 year old butterfly black moor and a 6 year old Broadtailed > > > panda.so Is there a name for a single tail fin telescope? > > > thanks > > > Debby > > > > > > > > > > > > ------------------------------------ > > > > > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. > > > ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> > > > PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to > > > the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT > > > LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- > > > <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. > > > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. > > > > > > If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of unsubscribing, you > > > can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the > > > home page. > > > > > > Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com to receive the digest, which > > > includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email > > > > > > Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com for the No E-Mail option where > > > you will still be able to read messages on the group and post replies. > > > > > > Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com to receive individual > > > e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 42540	From: Lisa Lawless	Date: 8/7/2009
Subject: re; i'm getting my first house

Ok, thanks guys. That's made me feel a lot better. And to answer some questions, it's a 22 gal long tropical. With U/G filter not HOB   And i cant get the new water, cause the house is still being built   Lisa   __________________________________________________________________________________ Find local businesses and services in your area with Yahoo!7 Local. Get started: http://local.yahoo.com.au [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 42541	From: Gail	Date: 8/7/2009
Subject: Re: Bala shark mishap!!

Lenny, look at my prior post in this topic - there is a link to the photo of my tank in the photos section for the group. I have that odd sea life light fixture with the blue and florescent lights. It sits on top of my 55 Gallon Bowfront, as for the water perameters... they should be good, I just did my filter cleaning, PWC and gravel vaccuming. He did seem a bit jumpy then. As far as predators, the only one in there that could possibly harrass him is my Blood Parrot, but my BP is smaller, and cannot swim as fast. Besides, my BP is to busy redecorating (especially after tank maintenance day). lol ;) Also - my husband took photos of where the shark ended up. He managed to flip flop his way to the linoleum in the kitchen - 3 feet away from the tank!! Poor guy! I thought for sure that if it was any fish getting out... it would be my Pleco! Not the shark!! :( - still bummed -gail --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@...> wrote: > > There's always a chance he just decided to jump for joy and didn't realize > the repercussions... BUT.. also check your water parameters to make sure > everything is where they should be... ammonia, nitrite at 0.0ppm and nitrate > less than 40ppm, pH where it usually is, etc. > > What size tank? Was it covered or did he happen to find an opening? > > What else is in the tank? Any predators of the Bala that he was trying to > avoid? How long have you had him? > > Last but not least, Scotty could be hitting the sauce again and decided to > transport him into the kitchen and then passed out before transporting him > back to the tank. <G> Oh yeah... and so much for "Live long and prosper". > ;-) > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right > side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) > > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 42542	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 8/7/2009
Subject: Re: re; i'm getting my first house

Would a neighbor give you some water? LOL Just tell 'em you'll be their new neighbor soon and need some water ;) hehe Amber Lisa Lawless wrote: > > > Ok, thanks guys. That's made me feel a lot better. > And to answer some questions, it's a 22 gal long tropical. > With U/G filter not HOB > > And i cant get the new water, cause the house is still being built > > Lisa > > > > __________________________________________________________ > Find local businesses and services in your area with Yahoo!7 Local. > Get started: http://local.yahoo.com.au <http://local.yahoo.com.au> > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 42543	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 8/7/2009
Subject: Re: Bala shark mishap!!

Even though you just did tank maintenance, whenever there is any kind of problem, the first thing anyone should start doing is eliminating possible issues. This means testing the water to make sure there is not a cycling issue with elevated ammonia or nitrite levels, which should always be 0.0ppm. If you overcleaned your filters, there's always a chance that tank went into a mini-cycle which could have resolved itself by now so it's always important to test immediately upon there being any kind of problem. It would still be a good idea to test the water now though.. just in case. When folks do improper filter maintenance, it will usually cause a mini-cycle that can last from a day or two to a week or two so check the water just to eliminate this as a possibility. Did you add your dechlor product when you refilled the tank? Just making sure as I've seen others forget this in the past and that chlorinated water would also cause some fish to try and escape and the chlorinated water would also kill off some of the good nitrifying bacteria in the filter. What percentage of water did you change? Are any of your other fish showing any signs of stress? The main thing, as others have also said, is you have to cover a tank. Almost all fish that are capable will decide to jump or maybe get spooked by something and accidentally jump. A cover, with as few openings as possible, is the only protection against them ending up on the floor. A cover also keeps the water temperature more stable and dramatically slows down evaporation. About the only time a cover should be left off is if there is a heat wave (and no air conditioning) issue where you would want to uncover the tank and increase evaporation to help cool down the water. The cover does not have to be a store-bought cover. I would simply took a piece of plexiglass and cut it to fit. You could also do custom cut outs for your filters, etc. and maybe a flip up hinged section in the front for feeding. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Gail Sent: Friday, August 07, 2009 9:05 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Bala shark mishap!! Lenny, look at my prior post in this topic - there is a link to the photo of my tank in the photos section for the group. I have that odd sea life light fixture with the blue and florescent lights. It sits on top of my 55 Gallon Bowfront, as for the water perameters... they should be good, I just did my filter cleaning, PWC and gravel vaccuming. He did seem a bit jumpy then. As far as predators, the only one in there that could possibly harrass him is my Blood Parrot, but my BP is smaller, and cannot swim as fast. Besides, my BP is to busy redecorating (especially after tank maintenance day). lol ;) Also - my husband took photos of where the shark ended up. He managed to flip flop his way to the linoleum in the kitchen - 3 feet away from the tank!! Poor guy! I thought for sure that if it was any fish getting out... it would be my Pleco! Not the shark!! :( - still bummed -gail --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@...> wrote: > > There's always a chance he just decided to jump for joy and didn't > realize the repercussions... BUT.. also check your water parameters to > make sure everything is where they should be... ammonia, nitrite at > 0.0ppm and nitrate less than 40ppm, pH where it usually is, etc. > > What size tank? Was it covered or did he happen to find an opening? > > What else is in the tank? Any predators of the Bala that he was > trying to avoid? How long have you had him? > > Last but not least, Scotty could be hitting the sauce again and > decided to transport him into the kitchen and then passed out before > transporting him back to the tank. <G> Oh yeah... and so much for "Live long and prosper". > ;-) > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles > referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically > under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month)

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 42544	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 8/7/2009
Subject: Re: re; i'm getting my first house

Unless you will have your own private well, your neighbors should have the same water. Get to know them now by going over and ask if you can borrow a cup of sugar... oops... make that water. ;-) Maybe one of them is already an experienced fish keeper and will be able to give you all of the water parameters. If not, fill up a gallon jug of water and test it while you are there to get an out-the-tap baseline reading. Pour that into an open top container when you get home and then test again, then at 24 hours and 48 hours. Let us know all of those numbers and also give us your present home's baseline water test results. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Lisa Lawless Sent: Friday, August 07, 2009 6:56 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] re; i'm getting my first house Ok, thanks guys. That's made me feel a lot better. And to answer some questions, it's a 22 gal long tropical. With U/G filter not HOB   And i cant get the new water, cause the house is still being built   Lisa

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 42545	From: bill 1433	Date: 8/7/2009
Subject: Re: re; i'm getting my first house

Yes Lisa,   OK on the building BUT is it well water or municipal supply? If municipal, maybe you can get a water sample from a neighbor? If it's well water, you should have already had it tested and know the parameters of it.   Bill --- On Fri, 8/7/09, Lisa Lawless <lisa_lawless2004@...> wrote: From: Lisa Lawless <lisa_lawless2004@...> Subject: [AquaticLife] re; i'm getting my first house To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Date: Friday, August 7, 2009, 7:56 AM Ok, thanks guys. That's made me feel a lot better. And to answer some questions, it's a 22 gal long tropical. With U/G filter not HOB   And i cant get the new water, cause the house is still being built   Lisa         __________________________________________________________________________________ Find local businesses and services in your area with Yahoo!7 Local. Get started: http://local.yahoo.com.au [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] ------------------------------------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the home page.  Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com to receive the digest, which includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com for the No E-Mail option where you will still be able to read messages on the group and post replies. Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com to receive individual e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 42546	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 8/7/2009
Subject: Re: re; i'm getting my first house

Gosh you guys I suggested that... what, 8 hours ago? LOL. Just kidding. Most new neighbors are friendly, let's hope you have friendly ones, and then when they look at you funny for asking for water you can explain that it's for your fish tank so you can test to see what the new water parameters of the location are going to be, compared to where you live now. Most people should understand and be willing to spare water, after-all MOST water is free ;) LOL Amber bill 1433 wrote: > > > > Yes Lisa, > > OK on the building BUT is it well water or municipal supply? > If municipal, maybe you can get a water sample from a neighbor? > If it's well water, you should have already had it tested and know > the parameters of it. > > Bill > > --- On Fri, 8/7/09, Lisa Lawless <lisa_lawless2004@... > <mailto:lisa_lawless2004%40yahoo.com.au>> wrote: > > From: Lisa Lawless <lisa_lawless2004@... > <mailto:lisa_lawless2004%40yahoo.com.au>> > Subject: [AquaticLife] re; i'm getting my first house > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Date: Friday, August 7, 2009, 7:56 AM > > Ok, thanks guys. That's made me feel a lot better. > And to answer some questions, it's a 22 gal long tropical. > With U/G filter not HOB > > And i cant get the new water, cause the house is still being built > > Lisa > > > > __________________________________________________________ > Find local businesses and services in your area with Yahoo!7 Local. > Get started: http://local.yahoo.com.au <http://local.yahoo.com.au> > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > ------------------------------------ > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. > ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> > PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT > important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message > MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- > <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. > > If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of unsubscribing, > you can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My > Membership" on the home page. > > Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:aquaticlife-digest%40yahoogroups.com> to receive the digest, > which includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email > > Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:aquaticlife-nomail%40yahoogroups.com> for the No E-Mail option > where you will still be able to read messages on the group and post > replies. > > Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:aquaticlife-normal%40yahoogroups.com> to receive individual > e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 42547	From: biG poppa	Date: 8/7/2009
Subject: Re: re; i'm getting my first house

umm waters not free --- On Fri, 8/7/09, Amber Berglund <arberglund@...> wrote: From: Amber Berglund <arberglund@...> Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] re; i'm getting my first house To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Date: Friday, August 7, 2009, 6:26 PM   Gosh you guys I suggested that... what, 8 hours ago? LOL. Just kidding. Most new neighbors are friendly, let's hope you have friendly ones, and then when they look at you funny for asking for water you can explain that it's for your fish tank so you can test to see what the new water parameters of the location are going to be, compared to where you live now. Most people should understand and be willing to spare water, after-all MOST water is free ;) LOL Amber bill 1433 wrote: > > > > Yes Lisa, > > OK on the building BUT is it well water or municipal supply? > If municipal, maybe you can get a water sample from a neighbor? > If it's well water, you should have already had it tested and know > the parameters of it. > > Bill > > --- On Fri, 8/7/09, Lisa Lawless <lisa_lawless2004@ yahoo.com. au > <mailto:lisa_ lawless2004% 40yahoo.com. au>> wrote: > > From: Lisa Lawless <lisa_lawless2004@ yahoo.com. au > <mailto:lisa_ lawless2004% 40yahoo.com. au>> > Subject: [AquaticLife] re; i'm getting my first house > To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com <mailto:AquaticLife %40yahoogroups. com> > Date: Friday, August 7, 2009, 7:56 AM > > Ok, thanks guys. That's made me feel a lot better. > And to answer some questions, it's a 22 gal long tropical. > With U/G filter not HOB > > And i cant get the new water, cause the house is still being built > > Lisa > > > > ____________ _________ _________ _________ _________ _________ _ > Find local businesses and services in your area with Yahoo!7 Local. > Get started: http://local. yahoo.com. au <http://local. yahoo.com. au> > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > ------------ --------- --------- ------ > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. > ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> > PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT > important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message > MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- > <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. > > If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of unsubscribing, > you can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My > Membership" on the home page. > > Or e-mail aquaticlife- digest@yahoogrou ps.com > <mailto:aquaticlife -digest%40yahoog roups.com> to receive the digest, > which includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email > > Or email aquaticlife- nomail@yahoogrou ps.com > <mailto:aquaticlife -nomail%40yahoog roups.com> for the No E-Mail option > where you will still be able to read messages on the group and post > replies. > > Or email aquaticlife- normal@yahoogrou ps.com > <mailto:aquaticlife -normal%40yahoog roups.com> to receive individual > e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 42548	From: Gail	Date: 8/7/2009
Subject: Re: Bala shark mishap!!

I am very certain I used my dechlor product. I only did a 25% water change, and I make sure to add dechlor to every bucket I pour back in to my tank. I will check the water, unfortunately I still have my crappy dip strips. So I won't have any ammonia readings. As far as cleaning my filtration - I go by the Lenny-cleaning-instructions (ie bucket and swishing etc) He was my biggest fish, he could've been getting senile? possibly. I will check the water, but I have been carefully watching all other inhabitants, and no one else has had any strange behaviors. However I think my other shark, misses his companion. He seems lost. And my BP is to busy redecorating ;P -gail --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@...> wrote: > > Even though you just did tank maintenance, whenever there is any kind of > problem, the first thing anyone should start doing is eliminating possible > issues. This means testing the water to make sure there is not a cycling > issue with elevated ammonia or nitrite levels, which should always be > 0.0ppm. If you overcleaned your filters, there's always a chance that tank > went into a mini-cycle which could have resolved itself by now so it's > always important to test immediately upon there being any kind of problem. > It would still be a good idea to test the water now though.. just in case. > When folks do improper filter maintenance, it will usually cause a > mini-cycle that can last from a day or two to a week or two so check the > water just to eliminate this as a possibility. > > Did you add your dechlor product when you refilled the tank? Just making > sure as I've seen others forget this in the past and that chlorinated water > would also cause some fish to try and escape and the chlorinated water would > also kill off some of the good nitrifying bacteria in the filter. > > What percentage of water did you change? > > Are any of your other fish showing any signs of stress? > > The main thing, as others have also said, is you have to cover a tank. > Almost all fish that are capable will decide to jump or maybe get spooked by > something and accidentally jump. A cover, with as few openings as possible, > is the only protection against them ending up on the floor. A cover also > keeps the water temperature more stable and dramatically slows down > evaporation. About the only time a cover should be left off is if there is > a heat wave (and no air conditioning) issue where you would want to uncover > the tank and increase evaporation to help cool down the water. The cover > does not have to be a store-bought cover. I would simply took a piece of > plexiglass and cut it to fit. You could also do custom cut outs for your > filters, etc. and maybe a flip up hinged section in the front for feeding. > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right > side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) > > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On > Behalf Of Gail > Sent: Friday, August 07, 2009 9:05 AM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Bala shark mishap!! > > Lenny, look at my prior post in this topic - there is a link to the photo of > my tank in the photos section for the group. I have that odd sea life light > fixture with the blue and florescent lights. It sits on top of my 55 Gallon > Bowfront, as for the water perameters... they should be good, I just did my > filter cleaning, PWC and gravel vaccuming. He did seem a bit jumpy then. As > far as predators, the only one in there that could possibly harrass him is > my Blood Parrot, but my BP is smaller, and cannot swim as fast. Besides, my > BP is to busy redecorating (especially after tank maintenance day). lol ;) > > Also - my husband took photos of where the shark ended up. He managed to > flip flop his way to the linoleum in the kitchen - 3 feet away from the > tank!! Poor guy! I thought for sure that if it was any fish getting out... > it would be my Pleco! Not the shark!! > > :( - still bummed > -gail > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@> > wrote: > > > > There's always a chance he just decided to jump for joy and didn't > > realize the repercussions... BUT.. also check your water parameters to > > make sure everything is where they should be... ammonia, nitrite at > > 0.0ppm and nitrate less than 40ppm, pH where it usually is, etc. > > > > What size tank? Was it covered or did he happen to find an opening? > > > > What else is in the tank? Any predators of the Bala that he was > > trying to avoid? How long have you had him? > > > > Last but not least, Scotty could be hitting the sauce again and > > decided to transport him into the kitchen and then passed out before > > transporting him back to the tank. <G> Oh yeah... and so much for "Live > long and prosper". > > ;-) > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles > > referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically > > under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 42549	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 8/7/2009
Subject: Re: re; i'm getting my first house

I said most... not all, sheesh. Amber biG poppa wrote: > > > umm waters not free > > --- On Fri, 8/7/09, Amber Berglund <arberglund@... > <mailto:arberglund%40gmail.com>> wrote: > > From: Amber Berglund <arberglund@... > <mailto:arberglund%40gmail.com>> > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] re; i'm getting my first house > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Date: Friday, August 7, 2009, 6:26 PM > > > > Gosh you guys I suggested that... what, 8 hours ago? LOL. > Just kidding. > Most new neighbors are friendly, let's hope you have friendly ones, and > then when they look at you funny for asking for water you can explain > that it's for your fish tank so you can test to see what the new water > parameters of the location are going to be, compared to where you live > now. Most people should understand and be willing to spare water, > after-all MOST water is free ;) LOL > > Amber > > bill 1433 wrote: > > > > > > > > Yes Lisa, > > > > OK on the building BUT is it well water or municipal supply? > > If municipal, maybe you can get a water sample from a neighbor? > > If it's well water, you should have already had it tested and know > > the parameters of it. > > > > Bill > > > > --- On Fri, 8/7/09, Lisa Lawless <lisa_lawless2004@ yahoo.com. au > > <mailto:lisa_ lawless2004% 40yahoo.com. au>> wrote: > > > > From: Lisa Lawless <lisa_lawless2004@ yahoo.com. au > > <mailto:lisa_ lawless2004% 40yahoo.com. au>> > > Subject: [AquaticLife] re; i'm getting my first house > > To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com <mailto:AquaticLife > %40yahoogroups. com> > > Date: Friday, August 7, 2009, 7:56 AM > > > > Ok, thanks guys. That's made me feel a lot better. > > And to answer some questions, it's a 22 gal long tropical. > > With U/G filter not HOB > > > > And i cant get the new water, cause the house is still being built > > > > Lisa > > > > > > > > ____________ _________ _________ _________ _________ _________ _ > > Find local businesses and services in your area with Yahoo!7 Local. > > Get started: http://local. yahoo.com. au <http://local. yahoo.com. au> > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > ------------ --------- --------- ------ > > > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, > Thank You. > > ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> > > PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT > > important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message > > MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- > > <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. > > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. > > > > If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of unsubscribing, > > you can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My > > Membership" on the home page. > > > > Or e-mail aquaticlife- digest@yahoogrou ps.com > > <mailto:aquaticlife -digest%40yahoog roups.com> to receive the digest, > > which includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email > > > > Or email aquaticlife- nomail@yahoogrou ps.com > > <mailto:aquaticlife -nomail%40yahoog roups.com> for the No E-Mail > option > > where you will still be able to read messages on the group and post > > replies. > > > > Or email aquaticlife- normal@yahoogrou ps.com > > <mailto:aquaticlife -normal%40yahoog roups.com> to receive individual > > e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 42550	From: harry perry	Date: 8/7/2009
Subject: Re: Bala shark mishap!!/Gail

One of my tanks has been running for years. Awhile back I had four algae eaters. Sae and Chinese in a tank with Gouramis and other fish. I broke the cover. The next day I found all four Algae eaters on the floor. Just them. Everyone else was fine. Why?. I don't know. I just keep the tank covered at all times. Harry --- On Fri, 8/7/09, Gail <clandestine662002@...> wrote: From: Gail <clandestine662002@...> Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Bala shark mishap!! To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Date: Friday, August 7, 2009, 5:41 PM   I am very certain I used my dechlor product. I only did a 25% water change, and I make sure to add dechlor to every bucket I pour back in to my tank. I will check the water, unfortunately I still have my crappy dip strips. So I won't have any ammonia readings. As far as cleaning my filtration - I go by the Lenny-cleaning- instructions (ie bucket and swishing etc) He was my biggest fish, he could've been getting senile? possibly. I will check the water, but I have been carefully watching all other inhabitants, and no one else has had any strange behaviors. However I think my other shark, misses his companion. He seems lost. And my BP is to busy redecorating ;P -gail --- In AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com, "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@. ..> wrote: > > Even though you just did tank maintenance, whenever there is any kind of > problem, the first thing anyone should start doing is eliminating possible > issues. This means testing the water to make sure there is not a cycling > issue with elevated ammonia or nitrite levels, which should always be > 0.0ppm. If you overcleaned your filters, there's always a chance that tank > went into a mini-cycle which could have resolved itself by now so it's > always important to test immediately upon there being any kind of problem. > It would still be a good idea to test the water now though.. just in case. > When folks do improper filter maintenance, it will usually cause a > mini-cycle that can last from a day or two to a week or two so check the > water just to eliminate this as a possibility. > > Did you add your dechlor product when you refilled the tank? Just making > sure as I've seen others forget this in the past and that chlorinated water > would also cause some fish to try and escape and the chlorinated water would > also kill off some of the good nitrifying bacteria in the filter. > > What percentage of water did you change? > > Are any of your other fish showing any signs of stress? > > The main thing, as others have also said, is you have to cover a tank. > Almost all fish that are capable will decide to jump or maybe get spooked by > something and accidentally jump. A cover, with as few openings as possible, > is the only protection against them ending up on the floor. A cover also > keeps the water temperature more stable and dramatically slows down > evaporation. About the only time a cover should be left off is if there is > a heat wave (and no air conditioning) issue where you would want to uncover > the tank and increase evaporation to help cool down the water. The cover > does not have to be a store-bought cover. I would simply took a piece of > plexiglass and cut it to fit. You could also do custom cut outs for your > filters, etc. and maybe a flip up hinged section in the front for feeding. > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com > (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right > side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) > > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com [mailto:AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com] On > Behalf Of Gail > Sent: Friday, August 07, 2009 9:05 AM > To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Bala shark mishap!! > > Lenny, look at my prior post in this topic - there is a link to the photo of > my tank in the photos section for the group. I have that odd sea life light > fixture with the blue and florescent lights. It sits on top of my 55 Gallon > Bowfront, as for the water perameters.. . they should be good, I just did my > filter cleaning, PWC and gravel vaccuming. He did seem a bit jumpy then. As > far as predators, the only one in there that could possibly harrass him is > my Blood Parrot, but my BP is smaller, and cannot swim as fast. Besides, my > BP is to busy redecorating (especially after tank maintenance day). lol ;) > > Also - my husband took photos of where the shark ended up. He managed to > flip flop his way to the linoleum in the kitchen - 3 feet away from the > tank!! Poor guy! I thought for sure that if it was any fish getting out... > it would be my Pleco! Not the shark!! > > :( - still bummed > -gail > > --- In AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com, "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@> > wrote: > > > > There's always a chance he just decided to jump for joy and didn't > > realize the repercussions. .. BUT.. also check your water parameters to > > make sure everything is where they should be... ammonia, nitrite at > > 0.0ppm and nitrate less than 40ppm, pH where it usually is, etc. > > > > What size tank? Was it covered or did he happen to find an opening? > > > > What else is in the tank? Any predators of the Bala that he was > > trying to avoid? How long have you had him? > > > > Last but not least, Scotty could be hitting the sauce again and > > decided to transport him into the kitchen and then passed out before > > transporting him back to the tank. <G> Oh yeah... and so much for "Live > long and prosper". > > ;-) > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com (Links to any articles > > referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically > > under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 42551	From: biG poppa	Date: 8/7/2009
Subject: Re: Bala shark mishap!!/Gail

question a bala is also call a silver catfish? --- On Fri, 8/7/09, harry perry <harryfisherman@...> wrote: From: harry perry <harryfisherman@...> Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: Bala shark mishap!!/Gail To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Date: Friday, August 7, 2009, 7:59 PM   One of my tanks has been running for years. Awhile back I had four algae eaters. Sae and Chinese in a tank with Gouramis and other fish. I broke the cover. The next day I found all four Algae eaters on the floor. Just them. Everyone else was fine. Why?. I don't know. I just keep the tank covered at all times. Harry --- On Fri, 8/7/09, Gail <clandestine662002@ yahoo.com> wrote: From: Gail <clandestine662002@ yahoo.com> Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Bala shark mishap!! To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com Date: Friday, August 7, 2009, 5:41 PM   I am very certain I used my dechlor product. I only did a 25% water change, and I make sure to add dechlor to every bucket I pour back in to my tank. I will check the water, unfortunately I still have my crappy dip strips. So I won't have any ammonia readings. As far as cleaning my filtration - I go by the Lenny-cleaning- instructions (ie bucket and swishing etc) He was my biggest fish, he could've been getting senile? possibly. I will check the water, but I have been carefully watching all other inhabitants, and no one else has had any strange behaviors. However I think my other shark, misses his companion. He seems lost. And my BP is to busy redecorating ;P -gail --- In AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com, "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@. ..> wrote: > > Even though you just did tank maintenance, whenever there is any kind of > problem, the first thing anyone should start doing is eliminating possible > issues. This means testing the water to make sure there is not a cycling > issue with elevated ammonia or nitrite levels, which should always be > 0.0ppm. If you overcleaned your filters, there's always a chance that tank > went into a mini-cycle which could have resolved itself by now so it's > always important to test immediately upon there being any kind of problem. > It would still be a good idea to test the water now though.. just in case. > When folks do improper filter maintenance, it will usually cause a > mini-cycle that can last from a day or two to a week or two so check the > water just to eliminate this as a possibility. > > Did you add your dechlor product when you refilled the tank? Just making > sure as I've seen others forget this in the past and that chlorinated water > would also cause some fish to try and escape and the chlorinated water would > also kill off some of the good nitrifying bacteria in the filter. > > What percentage of water did you change? > > Are any of your other fish showing any signs of stress? > > The main thing, as others have also said, is you have to cover a tank. > Almost all fish that are capable will decide to jump or maybe get spooked by > something and accidentally jump. A cover, with as few openings as possible, > is the only protection against them ending up on the floor. A cover also > keeps the water temperature more stable and dramatically slows down > evaporation. About the only time a cover should be left off is if there is > a heat wave (and no air conditioning) issue where you would want to uncover > the tank and increase evaporation to help cool down the water. The cover > does not have to be a store-bought cover. I would simply took a piece of > plexiglass and cut it to fit. You could also do custom cut outs for your > filters, etc. and maybe a flip up hinged section in the front for feeding. > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com > (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right > side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) > > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com [mailto:AquaticLife @ yahoogroups. com] On > Behalf Of Gail > Sent: Friday, August 07, 2009 9:05 AM > To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Bala shark mishap!! > > Lenny, look at my prior post in this topic - there is a link to the photo of > my tank in the photos section for the group. I have that odd sea life light > fixture with the blue and florescent lights. It sits on top of my 55 Gallon > Bowfront, as for the water perameters.. . they should be good, I just did my > filter cleaning, PWC and gravel vaccuming. He did seem a bit jumpy then. As > far as predators, the only one in there that could possibly harrass him is > my Blood Parrot, but my BP is smaller, and cannot swim as fast. Besides, my > BP is to busy redecorating (especially after tank maintenance day). lol ;) > > Also - my husband took photos of where the shark ended up. He managed to > flip flop his way to the linoleum in the kitchen - 3 feet away from the > tank!! Poor guy! I thought for sure that if it was any fish getting out... > it would be my Pleco! Not the shark!! > > :( - still bummed > -gail > > --- In AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com, "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@> > wrote: > > > > There's always a chance he just decided to jump for joy and didn't > > realize the repercussions. .. BUT.. also check your water parameters to > > make sure everything is where they should be... ammonia, nitrite at > > 0.0ppm and nitrate less than 40ppm, pH where it usually is, etc. > > > > What size tank? Was it covered or did he happen to find an opening? > > > > What else is in the tank? Any predators of the Bala that he was > > trying to avoid? How long have you had him? > > > > Last but not least, Scotty could be hitting the sauce again and > > decided to transport him into the kitchen and then passed out before > > transporting him back to the tank. <G> Oh yeah... and so much for "Live > long and prosper". > > ;-) > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com (Links to any articles > > referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically > > under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 42552	From: biG poppa	Date: 8/7/2009
Subject: Re: re; i'm getting my first house

lol spamber you know im pulling your leg --- On Fri, 8/7/09, Amber Berglund <arberglund@...> wrote: From: Amber Berglund <arberglund@...> Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] re; i'm getting my first house To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Date: Friday, August 7, 2009, 7:46 PM   I said most... not all, sheesh. Amber biG poppa wrote: > > > umm waters not free > > --- On Fri, 8/7/09, Amber Berglund <arberglund@gmail. com > <mailto:arberglund% 40gmail.com> > wrote: > > From: Amber Berglund <arberglund@gmail. com > <mailto:arberglund% 40gmail.com> > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] re; i'm getting my first house > To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com <mailto:AquaticLife %40yahoogroups. com> > Date: Friday, August 7, 2009, 6:26 PM > > > > Gosh you guys I suggested that... what, 8 hours ago? LOL. > Just kidding. > Most new neighbors are friendly, let's hope you have friendly ones, and > then when they look at you funny for asking for water you can explain > that it's for your fish tank so you can test to see what the new water > parameters of the location are going to be, compared to where you live > now. Most people should understand and be willing to spare water, > after-all MOST water is free ;) LOL > > Amber > > bill 1433 wrote: > > > > > > > > Yes Lisa, > > > > OK on the building BUT is it well water or municipal supply? > > If municipal, maybe you can get a water sample from a neighbor? > > If it's well water, you should have already had it tested and know > > the parameters of it. > > > > Bill > > > > --- On Fri, 8/7/09, Lisa Lawless <lisa_lawless2004@ yahoo.com. au > > <mailto:lisa_ lawless2004% 40yahoo.com. au>> wrote: > > > > From: Lisa Lawless <lisa_lawless2004@ yahoo.com. au > > <mailto:lisa_ lawless2004% 40yahoo.com. au>> > > Subject: [AquaticLife] re; i'm getting my first house > > To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com <mailto:AquaticLife > %40yahoogroups. com> > > Date: Friday, August 7, 2009, 7:56 AM > > > > Ok, thanks guys. That's made me feel a lot better. > > And to answer some questions, it's a 22 gal long tropical. > > With U/G filter not HOB > > > > And i cant get the new water, cause the house is still being built > > > > Lisa > > > > > > > > ____________ _________ _________ _________ _________ _________ _ > > Find local businesses and services in your area with Yahoo!7 Local. > > Get started: http://local. yahoo.com. au <http://local. yahoo.com. au> > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > ------------ --------- --------- ------ > > > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, > Thank You. > > ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> > > PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT > > important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message > > MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- > > <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. > > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. > > > > If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of unsubscribing, > > you can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My > > Membership" on the home page. > > > > Or e-mail aquaticlife- digest@yahoogrou ps.com > > <mailto:aquaticlife -digest%40yahoog roups.com> to receive the digest, > > which includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email > > > > Or email aquaticlife- nomail@yahoogrou ps.com > > <mailto:aquaticlife -nomail%40yahoog roups.com> for the No E-Mail > option > > where you will still be able to read messages on the group and post > > replies. > > > > Or email aquaticlife- normal@yahoogrou ps.com > > <mailto:aquaticlife -normal%40yahoog roups.com> to receive individual > > e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 42553	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 8/7/2009
Subject: Re: re; i'm getting my first house

Amber, I know you are married so by now you should certainly know that most men only nod to make it look like we're actually listening when our wives speak... but we really aren't. LOL On a separate but equally sexist note, we men also know that we have to tell you women something at least three times before it sinks in... so Bill and I were just trying to help. LOL Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Amber Berglund Sent: Friday, August 07, 2009 5:26 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] re; i'm getting my first house Gosh you guys I suggested that... what, 8 hours ago? LOL. Just kidding. Most new neighbors are friendly, let's hope you have friendly ones, and then when they look at you funny for asking for water you can explain that it's for your fish tank so you can test to see what the new water parameters of the location are going to be, compared to where you live now. Most people should understand and be willing to spare water, after-all MOST water is free ;) LOL Amber bill 1433 wrote: > > > > Yes Lisa, > > OK on the building BUT is it well water or municipal supply? > If municipal, maybe you can get a water sample from a neighbor? > If it's well water, you should have already had it tested and know the > parameters of it. > > Bill > > --- On Fri, 8/7/09, Lisa Lawless <lisa_lawless2004@... > <mailto:lisa_lawless2004%40yahoo.com.au>> wrote: > > From: Lisa Lawless <lisa_lawless2004@... > <mailto:lisa_lawless2004%40yahoo.com.au>> > Subject: [AquaticLife] re; i'm getting my first house > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Date: Friday, August 7, 2009, 7:56 AM > > Ok, thanks guys. That's made me feel a lot better. > And to answer some questions, it's a 22 gal long tropical. > With U/G filter not HOB > > And i cant get the new water, cause the house is still being built > > Lisa > > > > __________________________________________________________ > Find local businesses and services in your area with Yahoo!7 Local. > Get started: http://local.yahoo.com.au <http://local.yahoo.com.au> > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > ------------------------------------ > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. > ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , > .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT > that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the > original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: > old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. > > If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of unsubscribing, > you can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My > Membership" on the home page. > > Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:aquaticlife-digest%40yahoogroups.com> to receive the digest, > which includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email > > Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:aquaticlife-nomail%40yahoogroups.com> for the No E-Mail option > where you will still be able to read messages on the group and post > replies. > > Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:aquaticlife-normal%40yahoogroups.com> to receive individual > e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links > > ------------------------------------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the home page. Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com to receive the digest, which includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com for the No E-Mail option where you will still be able to read messages on the group and post replies. Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com to receive individual e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 42554	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 8/7/2009
Subject: Re: re; i'm getting my first house

Wait, you guys give nods? Man I'm getting jipped in my marriage ;) LOL. I get a grunt if I'm lucky... and then a few minutes later I get a, "Wait... what did you tell me?" if I'm lucky ;) LOL Amber Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > > > Amber, > > I know you are married so by now you should certainly know that most men > only nod to make it look like we're actually listening when our wives > speak... but we really aren't. LOL > > On a separate but equally sexist note, we men also know that we have > to tell > you women something at least three times before it sinks in... so Bill > and I > were just trying to help. LOL > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right > side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On > Behalf Of Amber Berglund > Sent: Friday, August 07, 2009 5:26 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] re; i'm getting my first house > > Gosh you guys I suggested that... what, 8 hours ago? LOL. > Just kidding. > Most new neighbors are friendly, let's hope you have friendly ones, > and then > when they look at you funny for asking for water you can explain that it's > for your fish tank so you can test to see what the new water parameters of > the location are going to be, compared to where you live now. Most people > should understand and be willing to spare water, after-all MOST water is > free ;) LOL > > Amber > > bill 1433 wrote: > > > > > > > > Yes Lisa, > > > > OK on the building BUT is it well water or municipal supply? > > If municipal, maybe you can get a water sample from a neighbor? > > If it's well water, you should have already had it tested and know the > > parameters of it. > > > > Bill > > > > --- On Fri, 8/7/09, Lisa Lawless <lisa_lawless2004@... > <mailto:lisa_lawless2004%40yahoo.com.au> > > <mailto:lisa_lawless2004%40yahoo.com.au>> wrote: > > > > From: Lisa Lawless <lisa_lawless2004@... > <mailto:lisa_lawless2004%40yahoo.com.au> > > <mailto:lisa_lawless2004%40yahoo.com.au>> > > Subject: [AquaticLife] re; i'm getting my first house > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > Date: Friday, August 7, 2009, 7:56 AM > > > > Ok, thanks guys. That's made me feel a lot better. > > And to answer some questions, it's a 22 gal long tropical. > > With U/G filter not HOB > > > > And i cant get the new water, cause the house is still being built > > > > Lisa > > > > > > > > __________________________________________________________ > > Find local businesses and services in your area with Yahoo!7 Local. > > Get started: http://local.yahoo.com.au <http://local.yahoo.com.au> > <http://local.yahoo.com.au <http://local.yahoo.com.au>> > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > ------------------------------------ > > > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, > Thank You. > > ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , > > .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT > > that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the > > original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: > > old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , > .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. > > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. > > > > If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of unsubscribing, > > you can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My > > Membership" on the home page. > > > > Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:aquaticlife-digest%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:aquaticlife-digest%40yahoogroups.com> to receive the digest, > > which includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email > > > > Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:aquaticlife-nomail%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:aquaticlife-nomail%40yahoogroups.com> for the No E-Mail option > > where you will still be able to read messages on the group and post > > replies. > > > > Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:aquaticlife-normal%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:aquaticlife-normal%40yahoogroups.com> to receive individual > > e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > ------------------------------------ > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. > ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> > PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to > the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the > SUBJECT > LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- > <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. > > If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of unsubscribing, you > can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the > home page. > > Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:aquaticlife-digest%40yahoogroups.com> to receive the digest, which > includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email > > Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:aquaticlife-nomail%40yahoogroups.com> for the No E-Mail option > where > you will still be able to read messages on the group and post replies. > > Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:aquaticlife-normal%40yahoogroups.com> to receive individual > e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 42555	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 8/7/2009
Subject: Re: re; i'm getting my first house

Big Poppa said: "umm waters not free" It is before the guv'ment gets hold of it. LOL Remember the Beatles song, Taxman... (If you drive a car) - I'll tax the street; (If you try to sit) - I'll tax your seat; (If you get too cold) - I'll tax the heat; (If you take a walk) - I'll tax your feet. Taxman! 'Cause I'm the taxman, Yeah, I'm the taxman. (if you get sick) - I'll tax health care; (re: Guv'ment Healthcare) (if you create methane) - I'll tax your air; (re: Cap & Trade) (if you want a new car) - I'll tax everyone; (re: Cash 4 Clunkers) (if you voted for me) - 'Cuz I'm the chosen ONE. (re: The 2008 Election) I am Obama-man Yeah, Obama-mannnn. As John Belushi said in 'Animal House' after smashing the guys ukelele... "Sorry"... but I was on a roll. LOL Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of biG poppa Sent: Friday, August 07, 2009 5:32 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] re; i'm getting my first house umm waters not free --- On Fri, 8/7/09, Amber Berglund <arberglund@...> wrote: From: Amber Berglund <arberglund@...> Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] re; i'm getting my first house To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Date: Friday, August 7, 2009, 6:26 PM   Gosh you guys I suggested that... what, 8 hours ago? LOL. Just kidding. Most new neighbors are friendly, let's hope you have friendly ones, and then when they look at you funny for asking for water you can explain that it's for your fish tank so you can test to see what the new water parameters of the location are going to be, compared to where you live now. Most people should understand and be willing to spare water, after-all MOST water is free ;) LOL Amber bill 1433 wrote: > > > > Yes Lisa, > > OK on the building BUT is it well water or municipal supply? > If municipal, maybe you can get a water sample from a neighbor? > If it's well water, you should have already had it tested and know the > parameters of it. > > Bill > > --- On Fri, 8/7/09, Lisa Lawless <lisa_lawless2004@ yahoo.com. au > <mailto:lisa_ lawless2004% 40yahoo.com. au>> wrote: > > From: Lisa Lawless <lisa_lawless2004@ yahoo.com. au <mailto:lisa_ > lawless2004% 40yahoo.com. au>> > Subject: [AquaticLife] re; i'm getting my first house > To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com <mailto:AquaticLife %40yahoogroups. > com> > Date: Friday, August 7, 2009, 7:56 AM > > Ok, thanks guys. That's made me feel a lot better. > And to answer some questions, it's a 22 gal long tropical. > With U/G filter not HOB > > And i cant get the new water, cause the house is still being built > > Lisa

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 42556	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 8/7/2009
Subject: Re: Bala shark mishap!!

What kind of "shark" is your other fish? Often, these types of fish will be aggressive towards conspecifics... that is fish of the same species or similar species/body/color types. You seem to imply that they got along OK but it's a good idea check up on these things. I just looked at the Mongabay profile on Bala Sharks http://fish.mongabay.com/species/Balantiocheilus_melanopterus.html and they grow to 16" so your 55G tank (I think that is what you mentioned that you had) is not really big enough for a Bala Shark so unless you are planning on an 8' long tank, do not replace Spock. The Mongabay profile also mentions that these fish need LOTS of open room for swimming and a tight fitting cover on the tank as these fish will jump... so that probably explains what happened and it may not be caused by any other water parameter issues and it doesn't mention anything about conspecific issues so it may not have been caused by your other "shark" but it's still a good idea to read the Mongabay profile on your other fishes just to make sure you're not missing anything on them. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Gail Sent: Friday, August 07, 2009 4:42 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Bala shark mishap!! I am very certain I used my dechlor product. I only did a 25% water change, and I make sure to add dechlor to every bucket I pour back in to my tank. I will check the water, unfortunately I still have my crappy dip strips. So I won't have any ammonia readings. As far as cleaning my filtration - I go by the Lenny-cleaning-instructions (ie bucket and swishing etc) He was my biggest fish, he could've been getting senile? possibly. I will check the water, but I have been carefully watching all other inhabitants, and no one else has had any strange behaviors. However I think my other shark, misses his companion. He seems lost. And my BP is to busy redecorating ;P -gail --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@...> wrote: > > Even though you just did tank maintenance, whenever there is any kind > of problem, the first thing anyone should start doing is eliminating > possible issues. This means testing the water to make sure there is > not a cycling issue with elevated ammonia or nitrite levels, which > should always be 0.0ppm. If you overcleaned your filters, there's > always a chance that tank went into a mini-cycle which could have > resolved itself by now so it's always important to test immediately upon there being any kind of problem. > It would still be a good idea to test the water now though.. just in case. > When folks do improper filter maintenance, it will usually cause a > mini-cycle that can last from a day or two to a week or two so check > the water just to eliminate this as a possibility. > > Did you add your dechlor product when you refilled the tank? Just > making sure as I've seen others forget this in the past and that > chlorinated water would also cause some fish to try and escape and the > chlorinated water would also kill off some of the good nitrifying bacteria in the filter. > > What percentage of water did you change? > > Are any of your other fish showing any signs of stress? > > The main thing, as others have also said, is you have to cover a tank. > Almost all fish that are capable will decide to jump or maybe get > spooked by something and accidentally jump. A cover, with as few > openings as possible, is the only protection against them ending up on > the floor. A cover also keeps the water temperature more stable and > dramatically slows down evaporation. About the only time a cover > should be left off is if there is a heat wave (and no air > conditioning) issue where you would want to uncover the tank and > increase evaporation to help cool down the water. The cover does not > have to be a store-bought cover. I would simply took a piece of > plexiglass and cut it to fit. You could also do custom cut outs for your filters, etc. and maybe a flip up hinged section in the front for feeding. > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles > referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically > under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) > > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] > On Behalf Of Gail > Sent: Friday, August 07, 2009 9:05 AM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Bala shark mishap!! > > Lenny, look at my prior post in this topic - there is a link to the > photo of my tank in the photos section for the group. I have that odd > sea life light fixture with the blue and florescent lights. It sits on > top of my 55 Gallon Bowfront, as for the water perameters... they > should be good, I just did my filter cleaning, PWC and gravel > vaccuming. He did seem a bit jumpy then. As far as predators, the only > one in there that could possibly harrass him is my Blood Parrot, but > my BP is smaller, and cannot swim as fast. Besides, my BP is to busy > redecorating (especially after tank maintenance day). lol ;) > > Also - my husband took photos of where the shark ended up. He managed > to flip flop his way to the linoleum in the kitchen - 3 feet away from > the tank!! Poor guy! I thought for sure that if it was any fish getting out... > it would be my Pleco! Not the shark!! > > :( - still bummed > -gail > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" > <GoldLenny@> > wrote: > > > > There's always a chance he just decided to jump for joy and didn't > > realize the repercussions... BUT.. also check your water parameters > > to make sure everything is where they should be... ammonia, nitrite > > at 0.0ppm and nitrate less than 40ppm, pH where it usually is, etc. > > > > What size tank? Was it covered or did he happen to find an opening? > > > > What else is in the tank? Any predators of the Bala that he was > > trying to avoid? How long have you had him? > > > > Last but not least, Scotty could be hitting the sauce again and > > decided to transport him into the kitchen and then passed out before > > transporting him back to the tank. <G> Oh yeah... and so much for > > "Live > long and prosper". > > ;-) > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles > > referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, > > alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month)

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 42557	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 8/7/2009
Subject: Re: Bala shark mishap!!/Gail

I've never heard them called that and haven't really heard of "Silver Catfish" before but a search on FishBase.org shows MANY fish having a common name of "Silver Catfish" Go here http://fishbase.org/search.php and type Silver Catfish in the top "common name" search field and you will see the results. Here's a copy/paste of what I found but I'm not sure how well it will paste. It looks OK for now but not sure how Yahoo Groups will handle it. Silver catfish Australia Porochilus argenteus Vernacular Silver catfish Cameroon Bagrus docmak Vernacular Silver catfish Cameroon Bagrus filamentosus Vernacular Silver catfish Ghana Bagrus bajad Vernacular Silver catfish Ghana Bagrus docmak Vernacular Silver catfish Kenya Schilbe intermedius Vernacular Silver catfish Namibia Schilbe mystus Vernacular Silver catfish Nigeria Bagrus bajad Vernacular Silver catfish Nigeria Bagrus docmak Vernacular Silver catfish Nigeria Bagrus filamentosus Vernacular Silver catfish Rwanda Schilbe intermedius Vernacular Silver catfish South Africa Schilbe mystus Vernacular silver catfish South Africa Schilbe intermedius Vernacular Silver catfish Zimbabwe Schilbe mystus Vernacular Silver catfish Trinidad Tob Rhamdia quelen Vernacular Silver catfish Tanzania Schilbe intermedius Vernacular Silver catfish USA Schilbe mystus Vernacular Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of biG poppa Sent: Friday, August 07, 2009 7:06 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: Bala shark mishap!!/Gail question a bala is also call a silver catfish? --- On Fri, 8/7/09, harry perry <harryfisherman@...> wrote: From: harry perry <harryfisherman@...> Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: Bala shark mishap!!/Gail To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Date: Friday, August 7, 2009, 7:59 PM   One of my tanks has been running for years. Awhile back I had four algae eaters. Sae and Chinese in a tank with Gouramis and other fish. I broke the cover. The next day I found all four Algae eaters on the floor. Just them. Everyone else was fine. Why?. I don't know. I just keep the tank covered at all times. Harry --- On Fri, 8/7/09, Gail <clandestine662002@ yahoo.com> wrote: From: Gail <clandestine662002@ yahoo.com> Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Bala shark mishap!! To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com Date: Friday, August 7, 2009, 5:41 PM   I am very certain I used my dechlor product. I only did a 25% water change, and I make sure to add dechlor to every bucket I pour back in to my tank. I will check the water, unfortunately I still have my crappy dip strips. So I won't have any ammonia readings. As far as cleaning my filtration - I go by the Lenny-cleaning- instructions (ie bucket and swishing etc) He was my biggest fish, he could've been getting senile? possibly. I will check the water, but I have been carefully watching all other inhabitants, and no one else has had any strange behaviors. However I think my other shark, misses his companion. He seems lost. And my BP is to busy redecorating ;P -gail --- In AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com, "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@. ..> wrote: > > Even though you just did tank maintenance, whenever there is any kind > of > problem, the first thing anyone should start doing is eliminating > possible > issues. This means testing the water to make sure there is not a > cycling > issue with elevated ammonia or nitrite levels, which should always be > 0.0ppm. If you overcleaned your filters, there's always a chance that > tank > went into a mini-cycle which could have resolved itself by now so it's > always important to test immediately upon there being any kind of problem. > It would still be a good idea to test the water now though.. just in case. > When folks do improper filter maintenance, it will usually cause a > mini-cycle that can last from a day or two to a week or two so check > the > water just to eliminate this as a possibility. > > Did you add your dechlor product when you refilled the tank? Just > making > sure as I've seen others forget this in the past and that chlorinated > water > would also cause some fish to try and escape and the chlorinated water > would > also kill off some of the good nitrifying bacteria in the filter. > > What percentage of water did you change? > > Are any of your other fish showing any signs of stress? > > The main thing, as others have also said, is you have to cover a tank. > Almost all fish that are capable will decide to jump or maybe get > spooked by > something and accidentally jump. A cover, with as few openings as > possible, > is the only protection against them ending up on the floor. A cover > also > keeps the water temperature more stable and dramatically slows down > evaporation. About the only time a cover should be left off is if > there is > a heat wave (and no air conditioning) issue where you would want to > uncover > the tank and increase evaporation to help cool down the water. The > cover > does not have to be a store-bought cover. I would simply took a piece > of > plexiglass and cut it to fit. You could also do custom cut outs for > your > filters, etc. and maybe a flip up hinged section in the front for feeding. > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com > (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the > right > side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, > Month) > > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com [mailto:AquaticLife @ yahoogroups. > com] On > Behalf Of Gail > Sent: Friday, August 07, 2009 9:05 AM > To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Bala shark mishap!! > > Lenny, look at my prior post in this topic - there is a link to the > photo of > my tank in the photos section for the group. I have that odd sea life > light > fixture with the blue and florescent lights. It sits on top of my 55 > Gallon > Bowfront, as for the water perameters.. . they should be good, I just > did my > filter cleaning, PWC and gravel vaccuming. He did seem a bit jumpy > then. As > far as predators, the only one in there that could possibly harrass > him is > my Blood Parrot, but my BP is smaller, and cannot swim as fast. > Besides, my > BP is to busy redecorating (especially after tank maintenance day). > lol ;) > > Also - my husband took photos of where the shark ended up. He managed > to > flip flop his way to the linoleum in the kitchen - 3 feet away from > the > tank!! Poor guy! I thought for sure that if it was any fish getting out... > it would be my Pleco! Not the shark!! > > :( - still bummed > -gail > > --- In AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com, "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" > <GoldLenny@> > wrote: > > > > There's always a chance he just decided to jump for joy and didn't > > realize the repercussions. .. BUT.. also check your water parameters > > to > > make sure everything is where they should be... ammonia, nitrite at > > 0.0ppm and nitrate less than 40ppm, pH where it usually is, etc. > > > > What size tank? Was it covered or did he happen to find an opening? > > > > What else is in the tank? Any predators of the Bala that he was > > trying to avoid? How long have you had him? > > > > Last but not least, Scotty could be hitting the sauce again and > > decided to transport him into the kitchen and then passed out before > > transporting him back to the tank. <G> Oh yeah... and so much for > > "Live > long and prosper". > > ;-) > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com (Links to any articles > > referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, > > alphabetically > > under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month)

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 42558	From: Courtland Jacob	Date: 8/7/2009
Subject: penn plax canister filter

any experince? opinions?

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 42559	From: bill 1433	Date: 8/7/2009
Subject: Re: re; i'm getting my first house

Sorry Amber,   I did not honestly see your post before I did mine. Besides, I'm not that competitive! Also, sometimes here, Yahoo mail gets here the same as carrier pigeon, but better late than never; but all at once?  I think its a server issue. I've gotten as high as 20 mails at once. Now, not all you folks type that fast------or do you?   Bill --- On Fri, 8/7/09, Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@...> wrote: > From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@...> > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] re; i'm getting my first house > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Date: Friday, August 7, 2009, 8:15 PM > Amber, > > I know you are married so by now you should certainly know > that most men > only nod to make it look like we're actually listening when > our wives > speak... but we really aren't. LOL > > On a separate but equally sexist note, we men also know > that we have to tell > you women something at least three times before it sinks > in... so Bill and I > were just trying to help.  LOL > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed > on the right > side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives > by Year, Month) > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] > On > Behalf Of Amber Berglund > Sent: Friday, August 07, 2009 5:26 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] re; i'm getting my first house > > Gosh you guys I suggested that... what, 8 hours ago? LOL. > Just kidding. > Most new neighbors are friendly, let's hope you have > friendly ones, and then > when they look at you funny for asking for water you can > explain that it's > for your fish tank so you can test to see what the new > water parameters of > the location are going to be, compared to where you live > now. Most people > should understand and be willing to spare water, after-all > MOST water is > free ;) LOL > > Amber > > bill 1433 wrote: > >  > > > > > > Yes Lisa, > >  > > OK on the building BUT is it well water or municipal > supply? > > If municipal, maybe you can get a water sample from a > neighbor? > > If it's well water, you should have already had it > tested and know the > > parameters of it. > >  > > Bill > > > > --- On Fri, 8/7/09, Lisa Lawless <lisa_lawless2004@... > > > <mailto:lisa_lawless2004%40yahoo.com.au>> > wrote: > > > > From: Lisa Lawless <lisa_lawless2004@... > > > <mailto:lisa_lawless2004%40yahoo.com.au>> > > Subject: [AquaticLife] re; i'm getting my first house > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > Date: Friday, August 7, 2009, 7:56 AM > > > > Ok, thanks guys. That's made me feel a lot better. > > And to answer some questions, it's a 22 gal long > tropical. > > With U/G filter not HOB > >  > > And i cant get the new water, cause the house is still > being built > >  > > Lisa > > > >  > > > >    >    __________________________________________________________ > > Find local businesses and services in your area with > Yahoo!7 Local. > > Get started: http://local.yahoo.com.au <http://local.yahoo.com.au> > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > ------------------------------------ > > > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when > replying, Thank You. > > > ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> > ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , > > .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY > to a post, DELETE all TEXT > > that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING > the TOPIC of the > > original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. > "new subject (was re: > > old subject)" <- > <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. > , > .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. > > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. > > > > If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead > of unsubscribing, > > you can change your delivery option by clicking on > "Edit My > > Membership" on the home page. > > > > Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com > > <mailto:aquaticlife-digest%40yahoogroups.com> to > receive the digest, > > which includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single > email > > > > Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com > > <mailto:aquaticlife-nomail%40yahoogroups.com> > for the No E-Mail option > > where you will still be able to read messages on the > group and post > > replies. > > > > Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com > > <mailto:aquaticlife-normal%40yahoogroups.com> to > receive individual > > e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > > ------------------------------------ > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when > replying, Thank You. > ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> > ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> > PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is > NOT important to > the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original > message MODIFY the SUBJECT > LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- > <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. > , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. > > If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of > unsubscribing, you > can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My > Membership" on the > home page.  > > Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com > to receive the digest, which > includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email > > Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com > for the No E-Mail option where > you will still be able to read messages on the group and > post replies. > > Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com > to receive individual > e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > ------------------------------------ > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when > replying, Thank You. > ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> > ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> > PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is > NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of > the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new > subject (was re: old subject)" <- > <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. > , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. > > If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of > unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by > clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the home page.  > > Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com > to receive the digest, which includes up to 25 posts at a > time in a single email > > Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com > for the No E-Mail option where you will still be able to > read messages on the group and post replies. > > Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com > to receive individual e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links > > >     mailto:AquaticLife-fullfeatured@yahoogroups.com > > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 42560	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 8/7/2009
Subject: Re: penn plax canister filter

I've never owned a Penn Plax canister filter but I have owned other Penn Plax stuff and it's not the best quality stuff, IMO, but it is generally a lower priced product so you have to balance out the price with the quality. If I were you, I would look at and compare it to a Rena Filstar canister for price difference and if the Rena isn't too much more, get the Rena Filstar. I own a couple of them and have NEVER had a single problem with any of them in the four years that I've had them. I think others in the group will also give good remarks about the Rena Filstar canister filters. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Courtland Jacob Sent: Friday, August 07, 2009 7:26 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] penn plax canister filter any experince? opinions?

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 42561	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 8/7/2009
Subject: Re: re; i'm getting my first house

I can type as fast as a speeding (slow) bullet ;) hehe. Actually I'm not bad. Amber bill 1433 wrote: > > > > Sorry Amber, > > I did not honestly see your post before I did mine. > Besides, I'm not that competitive! > Also, sometimes here, Yahoo mail gets here the same > as carrier pigeon, but better late than never; but > all at once? I think its a server issue. I've gotten > as high as 20 mails at once. Now, not all you folks > type that fast------or do you? > > Bill > > --- On Fri, 8/7/09, Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@... > <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com>> wrote: > > > From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@... > <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com>> > > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] re; i'm getting my first house > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > Date: Friday, August 7, 2009, 8:15 PM > > Amber, > > > > I know you are married so by now you should certainly know > > that most men > > only nod to make it look like we're actually listening when > > our wives > > speak... but we really aren't. LOL > > > > On a separate but equally sexist note, we men also know > > that we have to tell > > you women something at least three times before it sinks > > in... so Bill and I > > were just trying to help. LOL > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed > > on the right > > side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives > > by Year, Month) > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] > > On > > Behalf Of Amber Berglund > > Sent: Friday, August 07, 2009 5:26 PM > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] re; i'm getting my first house > > > > Gosh you guys I suggested that... what, 8 hours ago? LOL. > > Just kidding. > > Most new neighbors are friendly, let's hope you have > > friendly ones, and then > > when they look at you funny for asking for water you can > > explain that it's > > for your fish tank so you can test to see what the new > > water parameters of > > the location are going to be, compared to where you live > > now. Most people > > should understand and be willing to spare water, after-all > > MOST water is > > free ;) LOL > > > > Amber > > > > bill 1433 wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > Yes Lisa, > > > > > > OK on the building BUT is it well water or municipal > > supply? > > > If municipal, maybe you can get a water sample from a > > neighbor? > > > If it's well water, you should have already had it > > tested and know the > > > parameters of it. > > > > > > Bill > > > > > > --- On Fri, 8/7/09, Lisa Lawless <lisa_lawless2004@... > <mailto:lisa_lawless2004%40yahoo.com.au> > > > > > <mailto:lisa_lawless2004%40yahoo.com.au>> > > wrote: > > > > > > From: Lisa Lawless <lisa_lawless2004@... > <mailto:lisa_lawless2004%40yahoo.com.au> > > > > > <mailto:lisa_lawless2004%40yahoo.com.au>> > > > Subject: [AquaticLife] re; i'm getting my first house > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > Date: Friday, August 7, 2009, 7:56 AM > > > > > > Ok, thanks guys. That's made me feel a lot better. > > > And to answer some questions, it's a 22 gal long > > tropical. > > > With U/G filter not HOB > > > > > > And i cant get the new water, cause the house is still > > being built > > > > > > Lisa > > > > > > > > > > > > > > __________________________________________________________ > > > Find local businesses and services in your area with > > Yahoo!7 Local. > > > Get started: http://local.yahoo.com.au <http://local.yahoo.com.au> > <http://local.yahoo.com.au <http://local.yahoo.com.au>> > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > > > ------------------------------------ > > > > > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when > > replying, Thank You. > > > > > ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> > > ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , > > > .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY > > to a post, DELETE all TEXT > > > that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING > > the TOPIC of the > > > original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. > > "new subject (was re: > > > old subject)" <- > > <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. > > , > > .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. > > > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. > > > > > > If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead > > of unsubscribing, > > > you can change your delivery option by clicking on > > "Edit My > > > Membership" on the home page. > > > > > > Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:aquaticlife-digest%40yahoogroups.com> > > > <mailto:aquaticlife-digest%40yahoogroups.com> to > > receive the digest, > > > which includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single > > email > > > > > > Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:aquaticlife-nomail%40yahoogroups.com> > > > <mailto:aquaticlife-nomail%40yahoogroups.com> > > for the No E-Mail option > > > where you will still be able to read messages on the > > group and post > > > replies. > > > > > > Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:aquaticlife-normal%40yahoogroups.com> > > > <mailto:aquaticlife-normal%40yahoogroups.com> to > > receive individual > > > e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > > > > > > > ------------------------------------ > > > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when > > replying, Thank You. > > ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> > > ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> > > PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is > > NOT important to > > the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original > > message MODIFY the SUBJECT > > LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- > > <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. > > , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. > > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. > > > > If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of > > unsubscribing, you > > can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My > > Membership" on the > > home page. > > > > Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:aquaticlife-digest%40yahoogroups.com> > > to receive the digest, which > > includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email > > > > Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:aquaticlife-nomail%40yahoogroups.com> > > for the No E-Mail option where > > you will still be able to read messages on the group and > > post replies. > > > > Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:aquaticlife-normal%40yahoogroups.com> > > to receive individual > > e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > > > > > > > ------------------------------------ > > > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when > > replying, Thank You. > > ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> > > ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> > > PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is > > NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of > > the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new > > subject (was re: old subject)" <- > > <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. > > , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. > > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. > > > > If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of > > unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by > > clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the home page. > > > > Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:aquaticlife-digest%40yahoogroups.com> > > to receive the digest, which includes up to 25 posts at a > > time in a single email > > > > Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:aquaticlife-nomail%40yahoogroups.com> > > for the No E-Mail option where you will still be able to > > read messages on the group and post replies. > > > > Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:aquaticlife-normal%40yahoogroups.com> > > to receive individual e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > mailto:AquaticLife-fullfeatured@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife-fullfeatured%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 42562	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 8/7/2009
Subject: Snail re-growth?

Can Mystery snails regrow lost tissue, such as their feelers? I have an injured snail that decided the intake filter was a fun place to camp out (the intake filters are now all covered in the 125 gallon tank since this happened), the snail is still alive and moving around it's bowl that I put it in. I didn't leave it in the main tank in case it was dead/deing. I also moved him/her upstairs to the 55 gallon which has yet to have any snail incidents and should be a safer place to heal up where I can keep a better eye on it. Oh and "one eye'd Jack" is doing good, eating fine... Eye finally fell off and he doesn't seem to be too affected by it, and the other ones aren't picking on him, perhaps it was just an accident and not a nippy Ram. Amber

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 42563	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 8/7/2009
Subject: Re: penn plax canister filter

I love my Rena Filstar canister's, if I could swap out every filter for one I would :) Does that tell you how much I prefer them? LOL. Amber Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > > > I've never owned a Penn Plax canister filter but I have owned other Penn > Plax stuff and it's not the best quality stuff, IMO, but it is generally a > lower priced product so you have to balance out the price with the > quality. > If I were you, I would look at and compare it to a Rena Filstar > canister for > price difference and if the Rena isn't too much more, get the Rena > Filstar. > I own a couple of them and have NEVER had a single problem with any of > them > in the four years that I've had them. I think others in the group will > also > give good remarks about the Rena Filstar canister filters. > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right > side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On > Behalf Of Courtland Jacob > Sent: Friday, August 07, 2009 7:26 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Subject: [AquaticLife] penn plax canister filter > > any experince? opinions? > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 42564	From: Donna Ransome	Date: 8/7/2009
Subject: Re: re; i'm getting my first house

It is at my house, unless you count the electricity to pump it. _____ From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of biG poppa Sent: Friday, August 07, 2009 6:32 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] re; i'm getting my first house umm waters not free --- On Fri, 8/7/09, Amber Berglund <arberglund@gmail. <mailto:arberglund%40gmail.com> com> wrote: From: Amber Berglund <arberglund@gmail. <mailto:arberglund%40gmail.com> com> Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] re; i'm getting my first house To: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com Date: Friday, August 7, 2009, 6:26 PM Gosh you guys I suggested that... what, 8 hours ago? LOL. Just kidding. Most new neighbors are friendly, let's hope you have friendly ones, and then when they look at you funny for asking for water you can explain that it's for your fish tank so you can test to see what the new water parameters of the location are going to be, compared to where you live now. Most people should understand and be willing to spare water, after-all MOST water is free ;) LOL Amber bill 1433 wrote: > > > > Yes Lisa, > > OK on the building BUT is it well water or municipal supply? > If municipal, maybe you can get a water sample from a neighbor? > If it's well water, you should have already had it tested and know > the parameters of it. > > Bill > > --- On Fri, 8/7/09, Lisa Lawless <lisa_lawless2004@ yahoo.com. au > <mailto:lisa_ lawless2004% 40yahoo.com. au>> wrote: > > From: Lisa Lawless <lisa_lawless2004@ yahoo.com. au > <mailto:lisa_ lawless2004% 40yahoo.com. au>> > Subject: [AquaticLife] re; i'm getting my first house > To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com <mailto:AquaticLife %40yahoogroups. com> > Date: Friday, August 7, 2009, 7:56 AM > > Ok, thanks guys. That's made me feel a lot better. > And to answer some questions, it's a 22 gal long tropical. > With U/G filter not HOB > > And i cant get the new water, cause the house is still being built > > Lisa > > > > ____________ _________ _________ _________ _________ _________ _ > Find local businesses and services in your area with Yahoo!7 Local. > Get started: http://local. yahoo.com. au <http://local. yahoo.com. au> > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > ------------ --------- --------- ------ > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. > ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> > PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT > important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message > MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- > <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. > > If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of unsubscribing, > you can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My > Membership" on the home page. > > Or e-mail aquaticlife- digest@yahoogrou ps.com > <mailto:aquaticlife -digest%40yahoog roups.com> to receive the digest, > which includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email > > Or email aquaticlife- nomail@yahoogrou ps.com > <mailto:aquaticlife -nomail%40yahoog roups.com> for the No E-Mail option > where you will still be able to read messages on the group and post > replies. > > Or email aquaticlife- normal@yahoogrou ps.com > <mailto:aquaticlife -normal%40yahoog roups.com> to receive individual > e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 42565	From: Courtland Jacob	Date: 8/7/2009
Subject: Re: penn plax canister filter

does the rena outlet submerge a good bit into the water? also is it not a pain to have to use that funnel to prime it? --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@...> wrote: > > I've never owned a Penn Plax canister filter but I have owned other Penn > Plax stuff and it's not the best quality stuff, IMO, but it is generally a > lower priced product so you have to balance out the price with the quality. > If I were you, I would look at and compare it to a Rena Filstar canister for > price difference and if the Rena isn't too much more, get the Rena Filstar. > I own a couple of them and have NEVER had a single problem with any of them > in the four years that I've had them. I think others in the group will also > give good remarks about the Rena Filstar canister filters. > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right > side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) > > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On > Behalf Of Courtland Jacob > Sent: Friday, August 07, 2009 7:26 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Subject: [AquaticLife] penn plax canister filter > > any experince? opinions? >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 42566	From: biG poppa	Date: 8/7/2009
Subject: Re: re; i'm getting my first house

your fast amber thats why theu call you the spamber.. inst? and Lenny thats a good quote on that song lyrics.. --- On Fri, 8/7/09, Amber Berglund <arberglund@...> wrote: From: Amber Berglund <arberglund@...> Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] re; i'm getting my first house To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Date: Friday, August 7, 2009, 9:18 PM   I can type as fast as a speeding (slow) bullet ;) hehe. Actually I'm not bad. Amber bill 1433 wrote: > > > > Sorry Amber, > > I did not honestly see your post before I did mine. > Besides, I'm not that competitive! > Also, sometimes here, Yahoo mail gets here the same > as carrier pigeon, but better late than never; but > all at once? I think its a server issue. I've gotten > as high as 20 mails at once. Now, not all you folks > type that fast------or do you? > > Bill > > --- On Fri, 8/7/09, Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@gmail. com > <mailto:GoldLenny% 40gmail.com> > wrote: > > > From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@gmail. com > <mailto:GoldLenny% 40gmail.com> > > > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] re; i'm getting my first house > > To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com <mailto:AquaticLife %40yahoogroups. com> > > Date: Friday, August 7, 2009, 8:15 PM > > Amber, > > > > I know you are married so by now you should certainly know > > that most men > > only nod to make it look like we're actually listening when > > our wives > > speak... but we really aren't. LOL > > > > On a separate but equally sexist note, we men also know > > that we have to tell > > you women something at least three times before it sinks > > in... so Bill and I > > were just trying to help. LOL > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com > <http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com> > > (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed > > on the right > > side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives > > by Year, Month) > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com <mailto:AquaticLife %40yahoogroups. com> > > [mailto:AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com > <mailto:AquaticLife %40yahoogroups. com>] > > On > > Behalf Of Amber Berglund > > Sent: Friday, August 07, 2009 5:26 PM > > To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com <mailto:AquaticLife %40yahoogroups. com> > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] re; i'm getting my first house > > > > Gosh you guys I suggested that... what, 8 hours ago? LOL. > > Just kidding. > > Most new neighbors are friendly, let's hope you have > > friendly ones, and then > > when they look at you funny for asking for water you can > > explain that it's > > for your fish tank so you can test to see what the new > > water parameters of > > the location are going to be, compared to where you live > > now. Most people > > should understand and be willing to spare water, after-all > > MOST water is > > free ;) LOL > > > > Amber > > > > bill 1433 wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > Yes Lisa, > > > > > > OK on the building BUT is it well water or municipal > > supply? > > > If municipal, maybe you can get a water sample from a > > neighbor? > > > If it's well water, you should have already had it > > tested and know the > > > parameters of it. > > > > > > Bill > > > > > > --- On Fri, 8/7/09, Lisa Lawless <lisa_lawless2004@ yahoo.com. au > <mailto:lisa_ lawless2004% 40yahoo.com. au> > > > > > <mailto:lisa_ lawless2004% 40yahoo.com. au>> > > wrote: > > > > > > From: Lisa Lawless <lisa_lawless2004@ yahoo.com. au > <mailto:lisa_ lawless2004% 40yahoo.com. au> > > > > > <mailto:lisa_ lawless2004% 40yahoo.com. au>> > > > Subject: [AquaticLife] re; i'm getting my first house > > > To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com <mailto:AquaticLife %40yahoogroups. com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife %40yahoogroups. com> > > > Date: Friday, August 7, 2009, 7:56 AM > > > > > > Ok, thanks guys. That's made me feel a lot better. > > > And to answer some questions, it's a 22 gal long > > tropical. > > > With U/G filter not HOB > > > > > > And i cant get the new water, cause the house is still > > being built > > > > > > Lisa > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ____________ _________ _________ _________ _________ _________ _ > > > Find local businesses and services in your area with > > Yahoo!7 Local. > > > Get started: http://local. yahoo.com. au <http://local. yahoo.com. au> > <http://local. yahoo.com. au <http://local. yahoo.com. au>> > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > > > ------------ --------- --------- ------ > > > > > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when > > replying, Thank You. > > > > > ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> > > ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , > > > .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY > > to a post, DELETE all TEXT > > > that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING > > the TOPIC of the > > > original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. > > "new subject (was re: > > > old subject)" <- > > <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. > > , > > .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. > > > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. > > > > > > If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead > > of unsubscribing, > > > you can change your delivery option by clicking on > > "Edit My > > > Membership" on the home page. > > > > > > Or e-mail aquaticlife- digest@yahoogrou ps.com > <mailto:aquaticlife -digest%40yahoog roups.com> > > > <mailto:aquaticlife -digest%40yahoog roups.com> to > > receive the digest, > > > which includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single > > email > > > > > > Or email aquaticlife- nomail@yahoogrou ps.com > <mailto:aquaticlife -nomail%40yahoog roups.com> > > > <mailto:aquaticlife -nomail%40yahoog roups.com> > > for the No E-Mail option > > > where you will still be able to read messages on the > > group and post > > > replies. > > > > > > Or email aquaticlife- normal@yahoogrou ps.com > <mailto:aquaticlife -normal%40yahoog roups.com> > > > <mailto:aquaticlife -normal%40yahoog roups.com> to > > receive individual > > > e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > > > > > > > ------------ --------- --------- ------ > > > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when > > replying, Thank You. > > ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> > > ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> > > PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is > > NOT important to > > the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original > > message MODIFY the SUBJECT > > LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- > > <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. > > , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. > > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. > > > > If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of > > unsubscribing, you > > can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My > > Membership" on the > > home page. > > > > Or e-mail aquaticlife- digest@yahoogrou ps.com > <mailto:aquaticlife -digest%40yahoog roups.com> > > to receive the digest, which > > includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email > > > > Or email aquaticlife- nomail@yahoogrou ps.com > <mailto:aquaticlife -nomail%40yahoog roups.com> > > for the No E-Mail option where > > you will still be able to read messages on the group and > > post replies. > > > > Or email aquaticlife- normal@yahoogrou ps.com > <mailto:aquaticlife -normal%40yahoog roups.com> > > to receive individual > > e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > > > > > > > ------------ --------- --------- ------ > > > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when > > replying, Thank You. > > ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> > > ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> > > PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is > > NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of > > the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new > > subject (was re: old subject)" <- > > <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. > > , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. > > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. > > > > If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of > > unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by > > clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the home page. > > > > Or e-mail aquaticlife- digest@yahoogrou ps.com > <mailto:aquaticlife -digest%40yahoog roups.com> > > to receive the digest, which includes up to 25 posts at a > > time in a single email > > > > Or email aquaticlife- nomail@yahoogrou ps.com > <mailto:aquaticlife -nomail%40yahoog roups.com> > > for the No E-Mail option where you will still be able to > > read messages on the group and post replies. > > > > Or email aquaticlife- normal@yahoogrou ps.com > <mailto:aquaticlife -normal%40yahoog roups.com> > > to receive individual e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > mailto:AquaticLife- fullfeatured@ yahoogroups. com > <mailto:AquaticLife -fullfeatured% 40yahoogroups. com> > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 42567	From: biG poppa	Date: 8/7/2009
Subject: Re: re; i'm getting my first house

not down here Donna they charge you everthing even the air u breath i think some times --- On Fri, 8/7/09, Donna Ransome <djransome@...> wrote: From: Donna Ransome <djransome@...> Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] re; i'm getting my first house To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Date: Friday, August 7, 2009, 9:24 PM   It is at my house, unless you count the electricity to pump it. _____ From: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com [mailto:AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com] On Behalf Of biG poppa Sent: Friday, August 07, 2009 6:32 PM To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] re; i'm getting my first house umm waters not free --- On Fri, 8/7/09, Amber Berglund <arberglund@ gmail. <mailto:arberglund% 40gmail.com> com> wrote: From: Amber Berglund <arberglund@ gmail. <mailto:arberglund% 40gmail.com> com> Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] re; i'm getting my first house To: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife %40yahoogroups. com> yahoogroups. com Date: Friday, August 7, 2009, 6:26 PM Gosh you guys I suggested that... what, 8 hours ago? LOL. Just kidding. Most new neighbors are friendly, let's hope you have friendly ones, and then when they look at you funny for asking for water you can explain that it's for your fish tank so you can test to see what the new water parameters of the location are going to be, compared to where you live now. Most people should understand and be willing to spare water, after-all MOST water is free ;) LOL Amber bill 1433 wrote: > > > > Yes Lisa, > > OK on the building BUT is it well water or municipal supply? > If municipal, maybe you can get a water sample from a neighbor? > If it's well water, you should have already had it tested and know > the parameters of it. > > Bill > > --- On Fri, 8/7/09, Lisa Lawless <lisa_lawless2004@ yahoo.com. au > <mailto:lisa_ lawless2004% 40yahoo.com. au>> wrote: > > From: Lisa Lawless <lisa_lawless2004@ yahoo.com. au > <mailto:lisa_ lawless2004% 40yahoo.com. au>> > Subject: [AquaticLife] re; i'm getting my first house > To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com <mailto:AquaticLife %40yahoogroups. com> > Date: Friday, August 7, 2009, 7:56 AM > > Ok, thanks guys. That's made me feel a lot better. > And to answer some questions, it's a 22 gal long tropical. > With U/G filter not HOB > > And i cant get the new water, cause the house is still being built > > Lisa > > > > ____________ _________ _________ _________ _________ _________ _ > Find local businesses and services in your area with Yahoo!7 Local. > Get started: http://local. yahoo.com. au <http://local. yahoo.com. au> > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > ------------ --------- --------- ------ > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. > ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> > PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT > important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message > MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- > <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. > > If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of unsubscribing, > you can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My > Membership" on the home page. > > Or e-mail aquaticlife- digest@yahoogrou ps.com > <mailto:aquaticlife -digest%40yahoog roups.com> to receive the digest, > which includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email > > Or email aquaticlife- nomail@yahoogrou ps.com > <mailto:aquaticlife -nomail%40yahoog roups.com> for the No E-Mail option > where you will still be able to read messages on the group and post > replies. > > Or email aquaticlife- normal@yahoogrou ps.com > <mailto:aquaticlife -normal%40yahoog roups.com> to receive individual > e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 42568	From: Courtland Jacob	Date: 8/7/2009
Subject: Re: penn plax canister filter

the penn plax is 92 at petco, the rena filters are 149 at petsmart, and 119 online at petco, more in store, and the marineland filter is on sale for 119 at petco --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Courtland Jacob" <courtland_jacob@...> wrote: > > any experince? opinions? >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 42569	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 8/7/2009
Subject: Re: penn plax canister filter

You don't need to use the funnel after the first time you prime it. Just make sure you unhook the hoses then turn it off and the hoses will stay full. So when you hook it back up after cleaning the filter cartridges inside all you have to do is refill the water with tank water and hook it all back up and plug it in. It should start running like normal. And they have 2 different intake lengths, so you can have it at the surface or a little deeper. Amber Courtland Jacob wrote: > > > does the rena outlet submerge a good bit into the water? also is it > not a pain to have to use that funnel to prime it? > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>, "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" > <GoldLenny@...> wrote: > > > > I've never owned a Penn Plax canister filter but I have owned other Penn > > Plax stuff and it's not the best quality stuff, IMO, but it is > generally a > > lower priced product so you have to balance out the price with the > quality. > > If I were you, I would look at and compare it to a Rena Filstar > canister for > > price difference and if the Rena isn't too much more, get the Rena > Filstar. > > I own a couple of them and have NEVER had a single problem with any > of them > > in the four years that I've had them. I think others in the group > will also > > give good remarks about the Rena Filstar canister filters. > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right > > side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, > Month) > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On > > Behalf Of Courtland Jacob > > Sent: Friday, August 07, 2009 7:26 PM > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > Subject: [AquaticLife] penn plax canister filter > > > > any experince? opinions? > > > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 42570	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 8/7/2009
Subject: Re: penn plax canister filter

You can get them on ebay cheaper than that. That's where I got my last 2, unopened boxes, just dented boxes... everything was still wrapped in sealed plastic inside the box. Amber Courtland Jacob wrote: > > > the penn plax is 92 at petco, the rena filters are 149 at petsmart, > and 119 online at petco, more in store, and the marineland filter is > on sale for 119 at petco > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>, "Courtland Jacob" > <courtland_jacob@...> wrote: > > > > any experince? opinions? > > > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 42571	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 8/7/2009
Subject: Re: Snail re-growth?

I believe they can re-grow their antenna but you might want to check on Applesnail.net to be sure. Exactly how did it lose it's antenna in the intake filter screen? Mine use to crawl all over the intake and sometimes I'd worry when I would see part of it's foot slid into one of the slots but they were always able to slide it right back out when they were done whatever it was they were doing on the intake screen. I never had any problems with my fish but I have read of others where the fish will nip at the snails antenna. They can also easily retract the antenna very quickly which also makes me wonder why, if the antenna got sucked into the filter intake, why it didn't just retract it? Glad to see One-eyed Jack is doing well. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Amber Berglund Sent: Friday, August 07, 2009 8:21 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Snail re-growth? Can Mystery snails regrow lost tissue, such as their feelers? I have an injured snail that decided the intake filter was a fun place to camp out (the intake filters are now all covered in the 125 gallon tank since this happened), the snail is still alive and moving around it's bowl that I put it in. I didn't leave it in the main tank in case it was dead/deing. I also moved him/her upstairs to the 55 gallon which has yet to have any snail incidents and should be a safer place to heal up where I can keep a better eye on it. Oh and "one eye'd Jack" is doing good, eating fine... Eye finally fell off and he doesn't seem to be too affected by it, and the other ones aren't picking on him, perhaps it was just an accident and not a nippy Ram. Amber

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 42572	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 8/7/2009
Subject: Re: Snail re-growth?

Apple snail says that it's a common occurance for snails to get stuck on filters and get busy eating and then not realize that their foot has slipped in, and if the blood flow gets cut off the foot will expand and it won't be able to pull itself back out, I believe this is how my other two died, which makes me very sad. I have very carefully covered the intake with screen several layers thick so that they can't get sucked in somehow. I don't have problems with the rena intake, it's just the eheim but it has long slots, not smaller slots like most intakes have (small squares or rectangles). They have crawled on the other intake's and have not gotten stuck so I think it's just a design flaw of the eheim canister filters. Oh and Apple snail doesn't really say if they can regrow, they say the swelling will go down and just keep an eye on the snail if it's still alive. This one is crawling around his/her bowl and comes up for air, but I don't see it's syphon anymore, I'm worried that it got sucked into the filter :( The antenna are still there, but look... misshapen so perhaps they're just deformed temporarilly until they heal up. There's no bleeding, and I carefully removed the snail after turning off the filter and pulling off the intake, and it hadn't been there for too long (few hours at most), thankfully I had a short day at work and I was home early this morning. I haven't noticed the snail feeding yet though, so I've left it floating in the bowl and have been refilling the water periodically. Apple snail says it's safe to toss it back into the tank if it's moving around and there's no bleeding.... but I guess I just want to be sure he/she is okay. Amber Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > > > I believe they can re-grow their antenna but you might want to check on > Applesnail.net to be sure. > > Exactly how did it lose it's antenna in the intake filter screen? Mine use > to crawl all over the intake and sometimes I'd worry when I would see part > of it's foot slid into one of the slots but they were always able to slide > it right back out when they were done whatever it was they were doing > on the > intake screen. > > I never had any problems with my fish but I have read of others where the > fish will nip at the snails antenna. They can also easily retract the > antenna very quickly which also makes me wonder why, if the antenna got > sucked into the filter intake, why it didn't just retract it? > > Glad to see One-eyed Jack is doing well. > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right > side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On > Behalf Of Amber Berglund > Sent: Friday, August 07, 2009 8:21 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Subject: [AquaticLife] Snail re-growth? > > Can Mystery snails regrow lost tissue, such as their feelers? > I have an injured snail that decided the intake filter was a fun place to > camp out (the intake filters are now all covered in the 125 gallon tank > since this happened), the snail is still alive and moving around it's bowl > that I put it in. I didn't leave it in the main tank in case it was > dead/deing. I also moved him/her upstairs to the 55 gallon which has > yet to > have any snail incidents and should be a safer place to heal up where > I can > keep a better eye on it. > Oh and "one eye'd Jack" is doing good, eating fine... Eye finally fell off > and he doesn't seem to be too affected by it, and the other ones aren't > picking on him, perhaps it was just an accident and not a nippy Ram. > > Amber > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 42573	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 8/7/2009
Subject: Re: penn plax canister filter

The Rena's come with an assortment of plastic pieces, extensions, etc., so there are countless ways that one could set up their intake and outflow. I don't know why they even have that funnel. I've NEVER had to prime mine... well, maybe the very first time but after that, when you disconnect the hose attachment from the motor head of the canister, the hoses stay filled with water and after cleaning the filter media, when you re-attach the hose fitting and close down the locking lever, it automatically refills the canister reservoir. It takes about a minute or less but the instructions say to wait two minutes before re-plugging in the filter. Oh, I almost forgot, during the 14 days of no power after Katrina, I did use the funnel so I could pour tank water through the canister filter every hour or so to keep the filter media at least partially cycled. That is where HOB's are MUCH easier to deal with. I could easily pour many 32 oz. cups of water through the HOB's in the same time it took me to pour even one through the canister. Next time, I'll probably snake a battery operated air stone down through the outflow hose and let the rising bubbles create water flow through the canister.... just like a UGF filter works... and that's only if my UPS' and generator fail me too. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Courtland Jacob Sent: Friday, August 07, 2009 8:32 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: penn plax canister filter does the rena outlet submerge a good bit into the water? also is it not a pain to have to use that funnel to prime it? --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@...> wrote: > > I've never owned a Penn Plax canister filter but I have owned other > Penn Plax stuff and it's not the best quality stuff, IMO, but it is > generally a lower priced product so you have to balance out the price with the quality. > If I were you, I would look at and compare it to a Rena Filstar > canister for price difference and if the Rena isn't too much more, get the Rena Filstar. > I own a couple of them and have NEVER had a single problem with any of > them in the four years that I've had them. I think others in the > group will also give good remarks about the Rena Filstar canister filters. > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles > referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically > under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) > > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] > On Behalf Of Courtland Jacob > Sent: Friday, August 07, 2009 7:26 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Subject: [AquaticLife] penn plax canister filter > > any experince? opinions?

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 42574	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 8/7/2009
Subject: Re: penn plax canister filter

I just did a Yahoo Shopping search on the Rena Filstar XP1 and found them for under $100.00 at a couple of places. This one even has them at a clearance price of only $80.00 although I KNOW NOTHING about this online retailer so I cannot vouch for them but if you can check them out and find they are OK, that is a really GOOD price. I see they do accept PayPal so at least you have some assurance with PayPal and you don't have to give out your credit card info when using PayPal. http://www.valuepetsupplies.com/Shop/Control/Product/fp/SFV/32440/vpid/61666 77/vpcsid/0/rid/126301?zmam=33541279&zmas=1&zmac=9&zmap=720 DrsFosterSmith.com, which is a well-known online retailer, has the XP1 for $119.00. http://www.drsfostersmith.com/product/prod_display.cfm?pcatid=3602&cmpid=03c seyh&ref=3473&subref=AA&srccode=cii_1038957&cpncode=23-47545636-2 Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Courtland Jacob Sent: Friday, August 07, 2009 8:40 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: penn plax canister filter the penn plax is 92 at petco, the rena filters are 149 at petsmart, and 119 online at petco, more in store, and the marineland filter is on sale for 119 at petco --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Courtland Jacob" <courtland_jacob@...> wrote: > > any experince? opinions? >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 42575	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 8/7/2009
Subject: Re: penn plax canister filter

Amber, I think you should unplug it first, then unhook the hoses. I'm not sure what would happen if you unhook the hoses first but it doesn't sound good. ;-) My plastic parts had several extension sections so I have my intake nearly all the way to the bottom of my tank, which is 17" deep. Maybe they do not include as many plastic parts any longer. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Amber Berglund Sent: Friday, August 07, 2009 9:10 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: penn plax canister filter You don't need to use the funnel after the first time you prime it. Just make sure you unhook the hoses then turn it off and the hoses will stay full. So when you hook it back up after cleaning the filter cartridges inside all you have to do is refill the water with tank water and hook it all back up and plug it in. It should start running like normal. And they have 2 different intake lengths, so you can have it at the surface or a little deeper. Amber Courtland Jacob wrote: > > > does the rena outlet submerge a good bit into the water? also is it > not a pain to have to use that funnel to prime it? > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>, "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" > <GoldLenny@...> wrote: > > > > I've never owned a Penn Plax canister filter but I have owned other > > Penn Plax stuff and it's not the best quality stuff, IMO, but it is > generally a > > lower priced product so you have to balance out the price with the > quality. > > If I were you, I would look at and compare it to a Rena Filstar > canister for > > price difference and if the Rena isn't too much more, get the Rena > Filstar. > > I own a couple of them and have NEVER had a single problem with any > of them > > in the four years that I've had them. I think others in the group > will also > > give good remarks about the Rena Filstar canister filters. > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the > > right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by > > Year, > Month) > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On > > Behalf Of Courtland Jacob > > Sent: Friday, August 07, 2009 7:26 PM > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > Subject: [AquaticLife] penn plax canister filter > > > > any experince? opinions?

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 42576	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 8/7/2009
Subject: Re: penn plax canister filter

Yes, you're right, that's the proper order of things ;) LOL I had lots of parts, I put it about 4 inches down from the top of the water line myself. Amber Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > > > Amber, I think you should unplug it first, then unhook the hoses. I'm not > sure what would happen if you unhook the hoses first but it doesn't sound > good. ;-) > > My plastic parts had several extension sections so I have my intake nearly > all the way to the bottom of my tank, which is 17" deep. > > Maybe they do not include as many plastic parts any longer. > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right > side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On > Behalf Of Amber Berglund > Sent: Friday, August 07, 2009 9:10 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: penn plax canister filter > > You don't need to use the funnel after the first time you prime it. Just > make sure you unhook the hoses then turn it off and the hoses will stay > full. > So when you hook it back up after cleaning the filter cartridges > inside all > you have to do is refill the water with tank water and hook it all back up > and plug it in. It should start running like normal. > And they have 2 different intake lengths, so you can have it at the > surface > or a little deeper. > > Amber > > Courtland Jacob wrote: > > > > > > does the rena outlet submerge a good bit into the water? also is it > > not a pain to have to use that funnel to prime it? > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>, "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" > > <GoldLenny@...> wrote: > > > > > > I've never owned a Penn Plax canister filter but I have owned other > > > Penn Plax stuff and it's not the best quality stuff, IMO, but it is > > generally a > > > lower priced product so you have to balance out the price with the > > quality. > > > If I were you, I would look at and compare it to a Rena Filstar > > canister for > > > price difference and if the Rena isn't too much more, get the Rena > > Filstar. > > > I own a couple of them and have NEVER had a single problem with any > > of them > > > in the four years that I've had them. I think others in the group > > will also > > > give good remarks about the Rena Filstar canister filters. > > > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>> > > > (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the > > > right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by > > > Year, > > Month) > > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On > > > Behalf Of Courtland Jacob > > > Sent: Friday, August 07, 2009 7:26 PM > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > Subject: [AquaticLife] penn plax canister filter > > > > > > any experince? opinions? > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 42577	From: Donna Ransome	Date: 8/8/2009
Subject: Re: penn plax canister filter

Another vote for rena XP canister filters, once in a lifetime to prime, lots of configurations on the water return. And, I had a hairline crack in a water return part which caused a slow drip. It dripped right back into the tank anyway, but I had visions of the crack exploding while I was sleeping or at work, LOL. I called rena. They send me the entire “accessory” kit for free, no questions asked. PS by the time I got the kit (practically overnight) enough mineral deposits formed to stop the leak anyway I’m still using the original part. _____ From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Amber Berglund Sent: Friday, August 07, 2009 11:06 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: penn plax canister filter Yes, you're right, that's the proper order of things ;) LOL I had lots of parts, I put it about 4 inches down from the top of the water line myself. Amber Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > > > Amber, I think you should unplug it first, then unhook the hoses. I'm not > sure what would happen if you unhook the hoses first but it doesn't sound > good. ;-) > > My plastic parts had several extension sections so I have my intake nearly > all the way to the bottom of my tank, which is 17" deep. > > Maybe they do not include as many plastic parts any longer. > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> blogspot.com> > (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right > side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > [mailto:AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On > Behalf Of Amber Berglund > Sent: Friday, August 07, 2009 9:10 PM > To: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: penn plax canister filter > > You don't need to use the funnel after the first time you prime it. Just > make sure you unhook the hoses then turn it off and the hoses will stay > full. > So when you hook it back up after cleaning the filter cartridges > inside all > you have to do is refill the water with tank water and hook it all back up > and plug it in. It should start running like normal. > And they have 2 different intake lengths, so you can have it at the > surface > or a little deeper. > > Amber > > Courtland Jacob wrote: > > > > > > does the rena outlet submerge a good bit into the water? also is it > > not a pain to have to use that funnel to prime it? > > > > --- In AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>, "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" > > <GoldLenny@...> wrote: > > > > > > I've never owned a Penn Plax canister filter but I have owned other > > > Penn Plax stuff and it's not the best quality stuff, IMO, but it is > > generally a > > > lower priced product so you have to balance out the price with the > > quality. > > > If I were you, I would look at and compare it to a Rena Filstar > > canister for > > > price difference and if the Rena isn't too much more, get the Rena > > Filstar. > > > I own a couple of them and have NEVER had a single problem with any > > of them > > > in the four years that I've had them. I think others in the group > > will also > > > give good remarks about the Rena Filstar canister filters. > > > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> blogspot.com> > > <http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> blogspot.com>> > > > (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the > > > right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by > > > Year, > > Month) > > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > From: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > [mailto:AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On > > > Behalf Of Courtland Jacob > > > Sent: Friday, August 07, 2009 7:26 PM > > > To: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > Subject: [AquaticLife] penn plax canister filter > > > > > > any experince? opinions? > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 42578	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 8/8/2009
Subject: A Marine Logic Problem

Ready to do some thinking? Manhattan Reefs presents us with this logic problem: http://www.manhattanreefs.com/forum/general-discussion/63594-aquarium-lo gic-puzzle.html http://tinyurl.com/mxvszq \\Steve//

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 42579	From: Raymond Wetzel	Date: 8/8/2009
Subject: Re: Bala shark mishap!!

Hi Gail, I've been following this, as time permits -- which has been limited lately or I would have jumped in here sooner. I notice you're still trying to blame the fish for this mishap. NO, he was NOT senile. Lenny brings up a good question -- what species of Shark was this guy's "companion?" I could take a stab and guess the same kind, but I don't know. Quite often, and depending on the species, Sharks do not tolerate others of their own kind or even others somewhat related -- to varying degrees. Red-Tail Sharks are notorious with their aggressiveness towards conspecifics and can be quite aggressive even to other Sharks. Such behavior could force another Shark to jump. In any case, and even if your two Sharks got along fine, I would hope that you would PLEASE learn this from this lesson -- that ANY fish can jump at ANY time. This is NOT strange behavior -- they do this in the wild. Yours may even have done this numerous times in the past, but landed back in the tank. This is NOT suicidal behavior; they CAN'T KNOW that they will not come down into water as they don't know that there is nothing but atmosphere outside their tank below their waterline that they're residing in, and that they think they will be coming back down into. Sometimes a fish will miss coming back down within the limits of the tank and fall to the floor. Even a fish that may never have jumped clear of the water before is subject to possibly jumping at some point in their lives while in your care. It may not be tomorrow, it may not be next week or next year -- but it could happen two years from now -- and of course, you will never expect it. Know that it only takes one time for the fish to miss coming back down into the tank and falling to the floor, and as a result, he dies. Floating plants will help discourage this behavior -- BUT -- WILL NOT entirely eliminate this tendency to jump; it can still happen. As a replacement for Duckweed, which may not grow well for some people, you could try floating Water Sprite which will offer lots of surface cover, but do not expect any floating plants to completely eliminate this possibility of jumping. Your bet bet, even with an odd shaped tank such as a bowfront, is to have the tank completely covered at all times. If you can't find a hood that fits, get a piece of heavy (1/4" minimum) plexiglass cut to the dimensions of the lip of your top frame so that it rests within (on) it. You could even have it "hinged" as that flexible material is available through your LFS (local fish store) from various tank manufacturers. Some fish are more intent on jumping than others. Swordtails are a good example with this, although I've had long-fin male Bettas jump, as well as various Catfish. You never know what fish will decide to jump or when. As I said -- ANY FISH can jump at ANY TIME (please keep this in mind, thanks). Ray --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Gail" <clandestine662002@...> wrote: > > I am very certain I used my dechlor product. I only did a 25% water change, and I make sure to add dechlor to every bucket I pour back in to my tank. I will check the water, unfortunately I still have my crappy dip strips. So I won't have any ammonia readings. > As far as cleaning my filtration - I go by the Lenny-cleaning-instructions (ie bucket and swishing etc) > He was my biggest fish, he could've been getting senile? possibly. > > I will check the water, but I have been carefully watching all other inhabitants, and no one else has had any strange behaviors. However I think my other shark, misses his companion. He seems lost. And my BP is to busy redecorating ;P > > -gail > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@> wrote: > > > > Even though you just did tank maintenance, whenever there is any kind of > > problem, the first thing anyone should start doing is eliminating possible > > issues. This means testing the water to make sure there is not a cycling > > issue with elevated ammonia or nitrite levels, which should always be > > 0.0ppm. If you overcleaned your filters, there's always a chance that tank > > went into a mini-cycle which could have resolved itself by now so it's > > always important to test immediately upon there being any kind of problem. > > It would still be a good idea to test the water now though.. just in case. > > When folks do improper filter maintenance, it will usually cause a > > mini-cycle that can last from a day or two to a week or two so check the > > water just to eliminate this as a possibility. > > > > Did you add your dechlor product when you refilled the tank? Just making > > sure as I've seen others forget this in the past and that chlorinated water > > would also cause some fish to try and escape and the chlorinated water would > > also kill off some of the good nitrifying bacteria in the filter. > > > > What percentage of water did you change? > > > > Are any of your other fish showing any signs of stress? > > > > The main thing, as others have also said, is you have to cover a tank. > > Almost all fish that are capable will decide to jump or maybe get spooked by > > something and accidentally jump. A cover, with as few openings as possible, > > is the only protection against them ending up on the floor. A cover also > > keeps the water temperature more stable and dramatically slows down > > evaporation. About the only time a cover should be left off is if there is > > a heat wave (and no air conditioning) issue where you would want to uncover > > the tank and increase evaporation to help cool down the water. The cover > > does not have to be a store-bought cover. I would simply took a piece of > > plexiglass and cut it to fit. You could also do custom cut outs for your > > filters, etc. and maybe a flip up hinged section in the front for feeding. > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > > (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right > > side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) > > > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On > > Behalf Of Gail > > Sent: Friday, August 07, 2009 9:05 AM > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Bala shark mishap!! > > > > Lenny, look at my prior post in this topic - there is a link to the photo of > > my tank in the photos section for the group. I have that odd sea life light > > fixture with the blue and florescent lights. It sits on top of my 55 Gallon > > Bowfront, as for the water perameters... they should be good, I just did my > > filter cleaning, PWC and gravel vaccuming. He did seem a bit jumpy then. As > > far as predators, the only one in there that could possibly harrass him is > > my Blood Parrot, but my BP is smaller, and cannot swim as fast. Besides, my > > BP is to busy redecorating (especially after tank maintenance day). lol ;) > > > > Also - my husband took photos of where the shark ended up. He managed to > > flip flop his way to the linoleum in the kitchen - 3 feet away from the > > tank!! Poor guy! I thought for sure that if it was any fish getting out... > > it would be my Pleco! Not the shark!! > > > > :( - still bummed > > -gail > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@> > > wrote: > > > > > > There's always a chance he just decided to jump for joy and didn't > > > realize the repercussions... BUT.. also check your water parameters to > > > make sure everything is where they should be... ammonia, nitrite at > > > 0.0ppm and nitrate less than 40ppm, pH where it usually is, etc. > > > > > > What size tank? Was it covered or did he happen to find an opening? > > > > > > What else is in the tank? Any predators of the Bala that he was > > > trying to avoid? How long have you had him? > > > > > > Last but not least, Scotty could be hitting the sauce again and > > > decided to transport him into the kitchen and then passed out before > > > transporting him back to the tank. <G> Oh yeah... and so much for "Live > > long and prosper". > > > ;-) > > > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles > > > referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically > > > under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) > > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 42580	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 8/8/2009
Subject: Re: A Marine Logic Problem

Shouldn't we just *steal* the post so we can try to solve it here? Oops.. I meant *borrow* it. LOL Bill, do not try this until you've had at least a couple of cups of coffee. ;-) Aquarium Logic puzzle ------------------------------------------------------- Four kids have started aquariums in their houses. They all had one fish and one invertebrate in their tank. Unfortunately, they also each had a different problem with their tank. One tank had lighting issues, another had pH problems, one couldn't maintain the right temperature, and the other one had an algae outbreak. They each fed their tanks at different times of day (morning, afternoon, evening, and night). Figure out who owned which tank and which problem, the fish and the invertebrate that lived there, and the time of day that the owners fed their tank. 1. The aquarium that was fed in the evening had an algae bloom problem. Victor did not feed his tank in the morning. 2. The tank with temperature problems had an urchin in it. Ruth did not feed her tank in the evening. 3. The lionfish did not have a pH problem in its tank. The clownfish tank had lighting issues. 4. The anemone's tank was not fed at night. 5. Victor, who did not have a clownfish, had a clam in his tank. Aviva's scooter blenny was not in the tank with the algae problem. 6. Michael, who did not have a clownfish, fed his tank in the afternoon. The blue tang and the shrimp lived in the same tank, but they did not eat in the morning. I'll post the solution in a couple of days. If you've never done a logic puzzle before, do a Google search. They are easy to solve with the right grid. --------------------------------------------------------- Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Steve Szabo Sent: Saturday, August 08, 2009 7:41 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] A Marine Logic Problem Ready to do some thinking? Manhattan Reefs presents us with this logic problem: http://www.manhattanreefs.com/forum/general-discussion/63594-aquarium-lo gic-puzzle.html http://tinyurl.com/mxvszq \\Steve//

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 42581	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 8/8/2009
Subject: Re: A Marine Logic Problem

Now, if I wished, I have no idea where this came from and I cannot explore that site to determine if it may be of use to me. \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Lenny V. aka GoldLenny Sent: Saturday, August 08, 2009 9:11 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] A Marine Logic Problem Shouldn't we just *steal* the post so we can try to solve it here? Oops.. I meant *borrow* it. LOL Bill, do not try this until you've had at least a couple of cups of coffee. ;-) Aquarium Logic puzzle ------------------------------------------------------- Four kids have started aquariums in their houses. They all had one fish and one invertebrate in their tank. Unfortunately, they also each had a different problem with their tank. One tank had lighting issues, another had pH problems, one couldn't maintain the right temperature, and the other one had an algae outbreak. They each fed their tanks at different times of day (morning, afternoon, evening, and night). Figure out who owned which tank and which problem, the fish and the invertebrate that lived there, and the time of day that the owners fed their tank. 1. The aquarium that was fed in the evening had an algae bloom problem. Victor did not feed his tank in the morning. 2. The tank with temperature problems had an urchin in it. Ruth did not feed her tank in the evening. 3. The lionfish did not have a pH problem in its tank. The clownfish tank had lighting issues. 4. The anemone's tank was not fed at night. 5. Victor, who did not have a clownfish, had a clam in his tank. Aviva's scooter blenny was not in the tank with the algae problem. 6. Michael, who did not have a clownfish, fed his tank in the afternoon. The blue tang and the shrimp lived in the same tank, but they did not eat in the morning. I'll post the solution in a couple of days. If you've never done a logic puzzle before, do a Google search. They are easy to solve with the right grid. --------------------------------------------------------- Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Steve Szabo Sent: Saturday, August 08, 2009 7:41 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] A Marine Logic Problem Ready to do some thinking? Manhattan Reefs presents us with this logic problem: http://www.manhattanreefs.com/forum/general-discussion/63594-aquarium-lo gic-puzzle.html http://tinyurl.com/mxvszq \\Steve// ------------------------------------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the home page. Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com to receive the digest, which includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com for the No E-Mail option where you will still be able to read messages on the group and post replies. Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com to receive individual e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 42582	From: Raymond Wetzel	Date: 8/8/2009
Subject: Re: re; i'm getting my first house

NOW, NOW!!! You're forgetting (or ignoring) the recommendation of no politics on this Forum -- just as we encourage the exclusion of discussions on religion -- as they're the two most controversial subjects that can be brought up (and don't belong on open forums such as this). After all, this may cause dissention in the ranks, or at the very least cause ill feelings from at least half (or more) of the members here. You may be forgetting -- that it took more than half of the population to get the Democrats in office this time, and while you may think that the majority of the members are laughing with you, the opposite may actually have taken place. While I doubt we'd lose members as a result of some small remark that they may not necessarily approve of, there's always that possibility, which I'd rather not see. Lately, I've been seeing Groups stating just such prerequisites when joining, as part of their guidelines for posting. Ray --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@...> wrote: > > Big Poppa said: "umm waters not free" > > It is before the guv'ment gets hold of it. LOL > > Remember the Beatles song, Taxman... > > (If you drive a car) - I'll tax the street; > (If you try to sit) - I'll tax your seat; > (If you get too cold) - I'll tax the heat; > (If you take a walk) - I'll tax your feet. > > Taxman! > > 'Cause I'm the taxman, > Yeah, I'm the taxman. > > (if you get sick) - I'll tax health care; (re: Guv'ment Healthcare) > (if you create methane) - I'll tax your air; (re: Cap & Trade) > (if you want a new car) - I'll tax everyone; (re: Cash 4 Clunkers) > (if you voted for me) - 'Cuz I'm the chosen ONE. (re: The 2008 Election) > > I am Obama-man > Yeah, Obama-mannnn. > > As John Belushi said in 'Animal House' after smashing the guys ukelele... > > "Sorry"... but I was on a roll. LOL > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right > side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) > > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On > Behalf Of biG poppa > Sent: Friday, August 07, 2009 5:32 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] re; i'm getting my first house > > umm waters not free > > --- On Fri, 8/7/09, Amber Berglund <arberglund@...> wrote: > > > From: Amber Berglund <arberglund@...> > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] re; i'm getting my first house > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Date: Friday, August 7, 2009, 6:26 PM > > >   > > > > Gosh you guys I suggested that... what, 8 hours ago? LOL. > Just kidding. > Most new neighbors are friendly, let's hope you have friendly ones, and then > when they look at you funny for asking for water you can explain that it's > for your fish tank so you can test to see what the new water parameters of > the location are going to be, compared to where you live now. Most people > should understand and be willing to spare water, after-all MOST water is > free ;) LOL > > Amber > > bill 1433 wrote: > > > > > > > > Yes Lisa, > > > > OK on the building BUT is it well water or municipal supply? > > If municipal, maybe you can get a water sample from a neighbor? > > If it's well water, you should have already had it tested and know the > > parameters of it. > > > > Bill > > > > --- On Fri, 8/7/09, Lisa Lawless <lisa_lawless2004@ yahoo.com. au > > <mailto:lisa_ lawless2004% 40yahoo.com. au>> wrote: > > > > From: Lisa Lawless <lisa_lawless2004@ yahoo.com. au <mailto:lisa_ > > lawless2004% 40yahoo.com. au>> > > Subject: [AquaticLife] re; i'm getting my first house > > To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com <mailto:AquaticLife %40yahoogroups. > > com> > > Date: Friday, August 7, 2009, 7:56 AM > > > > Ok, thanks guys. That's made me feel a lot better. > > And to answer some questions, it's a 22 gal long tropical. > > With U/G filter not HOB > > > > And i cant get the new water, cause the house is still being built > > > > Lisa >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 42583	From: bill 1433	Date: 8/8/2009
Subject: Re: A Marine Logic Problem

Len,   (on 3rd coffee) I have not been into salt water for many years BUT..................   I strongly question the first two words, "Four Kids"?   I immediately call your attention to # 3, "The Lionfish"!!!!!   Sorry, but Lionfish belong in the care of (please notice I did not say "hands of") a very experienced hobbyist.  These fish, although quite beautiful, are very dangerous and a cut or scrap from their dorsal spins can be hazardous to your health to say nothing of a child's.  Right grid?  I wonder who wrote that one!!! I'm thinking this is not the "25 Point" bonus question?   Bill  --- On Sat, 8/8/09, Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@...> wrote: From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@...> Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] A Marine Logic Problem To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Date: Saturday, August 8, 2009, 9:11 AM Shouldn't we just *steal* the post so we can try to solve it here?  Oops... I meant *borrow* it.  LOL Bill, do not try this until you've had at least a couple of cups of coffee. ;-) Aquarium Logic puzzle ------------------------------------------------------- Four kids have started aquariums in their houses. They all had one fish and one invertebrate in their tank. Unfortunately, they also each had a different problem with their tank. One tank had lighting issues, another had pH problems, one couldn't maintain the right temperature, and the other one had an algae outbreak. They each fed their tanks at different times of day (morning, afternoon, evening, and night). Figure out who owned which tank and which problem, the fish and the invertebrate that lived there, and the time of day that the owners fed their tank. 1. The aquarium that was fed in the evening had an algae bloom problem. Victor did not feed his tank in the morning. 2. The tank with temperature problems had an urchin in it. Ruth did not feed her tank in the evening. 3. The lionfish did not have a pH problem in its tank. The clownfish tank had lighting issues. 4. The anemone's tank was not fed at night. 5. Victor, who did not have a clownfish, had a clam in his tank. Aviva's scooter blenny was not in the tank with the algae problem. 6. Michael, who did not have a clownfish, fed his tank in the afternoon. The blue tang and the shrimp lived in the same tank, but they did not eat in the morning. I'll post the solution in a couple of days. If you've never done a logic puzzle before, do a Google search. They are easy to solve with the right grid. --------------------------------------------------------- Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Steve Szabo Sent: Saturday, August 08, 2009 7:41 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] A Marine Logic Problem Ready to do some thinking? Manhattan Reefs presents us with this logic problem: http://www.manhattanreefs.com/forum/general-discussion/63594-aquarium-lo gic-puzzle.html http://tinyurl.com/mxvszq \\Steve// ------------------------------------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the home page.  Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com to receive the digest, which includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com for the No E-Mail option where you will still be able to read messages on the group and post replies. Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com to receive individual e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 42584	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 8/8/2009
Subject: SeaCamp

If you have youngin's and are in the Corpus Christi, TX area, you might find this day camp of interest. http://www.texasstateaquarium.org/index.php?option=com_content&view=arti cle&id=24&Itemid=44 http://tinyurl.com/aaqgr9 Lenny, you might be able to get in as a SeaStar <gr&d>. \\Steve//

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 42585	From: Menagerie_Manager	Date: 8/8/2009
Subject: Honorary catfish gets a forever home ;-) OT

In case anyone has been wondering about the newborn kitten that I posted about back in early July, I was able to get him through his bloating problem and Friday night he went home with my adult niece, who had to have her at put to sleep a couple of months ago. I'm posting a link to my Facebook photo album, which I think is set so you can access it without joining Facebook: http://www.facebook.com/album.php?aid=2026421&id=1124712084&l=e9ef6f692c DebR and the Three Goldfish (CB, Lucille, and Raven)

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 42586	From: David Keymel	Date: 8/8/2009
Subject: My Balloon RedEye Tetra has less fins than otherwise normal

Hey guys. I have a tetra. You can see it here: http://www.petsolutions.com/Red-Eye-Balloon-Body-Tetra+I41025+C79.aspx Thats not him, but the type. We had 6 of them in our 20 gallon tank with a few random other fishes, one of them being a german blue ram. The other is a molly, and a guppy. The ram is only a temporary resident, its a girl. So. Anyway we came home various days of the week to find 1 of our tetras dead. this happened twice we are down to 4. No idea why or what happened. It has happened to other fishes we had in the tank also. One will die, a few weeks or more go buy then another random death. It seems suspiciously natural but not. I cannot find a reason for it really. This last time we came home, we found a tetra on the bottom, thought it was dead. But we looked closer, it was still active. the gills were going and everything. Just no tail fin. He didn't appear to have fin rot. I cannot find any evidence of disease or anything like that. seems perfectly fine other than the fact he cannot swim and sits on the bottom of the tank. Hes been working his way around the bottom of the tank for days now and i dont know what to do with him. I can only guess that maybe the ram nipped his tail off one day, but i have not seen any aggressive history from her at all. We have a long tailed guppy that would be a much more interesting target. So what should i do about this? He seems to get along ok, the other fish have not been picking on him really. Is he going to get better or just hang out down there the rest of his life? Is there anything i can do to promote his tail growth? Thnx guys and girls.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 42587	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 8/8/2009
Subject: Re: SeaCamp

LOL... You know I had to go look to see what a SeaStar was. I'll be honest and thought it was going to be a senior citizens designation but I like your humor nonetheless. But, in honor of Jeff Foxworthy, you should have at least proclaimed me at least a SeaHorse... since I'm smarter than a 5th grader. ;-) But for $200.00 for a week, I hope they teach them the nitrogen cycle and how to do tank maintenance and PWC's too. LOL DayCare centers down here charge $100 to $125 for a week of 6AM to 6PM care... and the kids get to learn "Itsy Bitsy Spider" and "I Am A Teacup". I only know this as one of my customers is a DayCare center so I get to see what they do when I'm fixing something that one of the terrible two's broke. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Steve Szabo Sent: Saturday, August 08, 2009 10:53 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] SeaCamp If you have youngin's and are in the Corpus Christi, TX area, you might find this day camp of interest. http://www.texasstateaquarium.org/index.php?option=com_content&view=arti cle&id=24&Itemid=44 http://tinyurl.com/aaqgr9 Lenny, you might be able to get in as a SeaStar <gr&d>. \\Steve//

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 42588	From: pam andress	Date: 8/8/2009
Subject: Re: Honorary catfish gets a forever home ;-) OT

I'm so glad your neice is the new mommy for the kitten. Sure is a cutie and thanks for letting us know. Pam To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com From: menagerie_manager@... Date: Sat, 8 Aug 2009 10:26:23 -0400 Subject: [AquaticLife] Honorary catfish gets a forever home ;-) OT In case anyone has been wondering about the newborn kitten that I posted about back in early July, I was able to get him through his bloating problem and Friday night he went home with my adult niece, who had to have her at put to sleep a couple of months ago. I'm posting a link to my Facebook photo album, which I think is set so you can access it without joining Facebook: http://www.facebook.com/album.php?aid=2026421&id=1124712084&l=e9ef6f692c DebR and the Three Goldfish (CB, Lucille, and Raven) [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 42589	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 8/8/2009
Subject: GoldLenny's Blog - Fish Jokes and Cartoons page updated

If anyone is bored and hasn't been to my Fish Jokes & Cartoons page lately, I've updated it with some new content. http://goldlenny.blogspot.com/2009/02/fish-jokes-some-may-be-pg-or-r-rated.h tml Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month)

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 42590	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 8/8/2009
Subject: Re: penn plax canister filter

Wow that was nice of them to send it for free, another reason to get one I suppose. Eheim parts are an arm and a leg to replace ;) LOL Amber Donna Ransome wrote: > > Another vote for rena XP canister filters, once in a lifetime to > prime, lots > of configurations on the water return. And, I had a hairline crack in a > water return part which caused a slow drip. It dripped right back into the > tank anyway, but I had visions of the crack exploding while I was sleeping > or at work, LOL. I called rena. They send me the entire “accessory” kit > for free, no questions asked. > > PS by the time I got the kit (practically overnight) enough mineral > deposits > formed to stop the leak anyway…I’m still using the original part. > > _____ > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On > Behalf Of Amber Berglund > Sent: Friday, August 07, 2009 11:06 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: penn plax canister filter > > Yes, you're right, that's the proper order of things ;) LOL > I had lots of parts, I put it about 4 inches down from the top of the > water line myself. > > Amber > > Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > > > > > > Amber, I think you should unplug it first, then unhook the hoses. > I'm not > > sure what would happen if you unhook the hoses first but it doesn't > sound > > good. ;-) > > > > My plastic parts had several extension sections so I have my intake > nearly > > all the way to the bottom of my tank, which is 17" deep. > > > > Maybe they do not include as many plastic parts any longer. > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>> blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>> blogspot.com> > > (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right > > side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, > Month) > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > yahoogroups.com > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > [mailto:AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > yahoogroups.com > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On > > Behalf Of Amber Berglund > > Sent: Friday, August 07, 2009 9:10 PM > > To: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: penn plax canister filter > > > > You don't need to use the funnel after the first time you prime it. Just > > make sure you unhook the hoses then turn it off and the hoses will stay > > full. > > So when you hook it back up after cleaning the filter cartridges > > inside all > > you have to do is refill the water with tank water and hook it all > back up > > and plug it in. It should start running like normal. > > And they have 2 different intake lengths, so you can have it at the > > surface > > or a little deeper. > > > > Amber > > > > Courtland Jacob wrote: > > > > > > > > > does the rena outlet submerge a good bit into the water? also is it > > > not a pain to have to use that funnel to prime it? > > > > > > --- In AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > yahoogroups.com > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>, "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" > > > <GoldLenny@...> wrote: > > > > > > > > I've never owned a Penn Plax canister filter but I have owned other > > > > Penn Plax stuff and it's not the best quality stuff, IMO, but it is > > > generally a > > > > lower priced product so you have to balance out the price with the > > > quality. > > > > If I were you, I would look at and compare it to a Rena Filstar > > > canister for > > > > price difference and if the Rena isn't too much more, get the Rena > > > Filstar. > > > > I own a couple of them and have NEVER had a single problem with any > > > of them > > > > in the four years that I've had them. I think others in the group > > > will also > > > > give good remarks about the Rena Filstar canister filters. > > > > > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>> > blogspot.com > > <http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>> blogspot.com> > > > <http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>> blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>> blogspot.com>> > > > > (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the > > > > right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by > > > > Year, > > > Month) > > > > > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > > From: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > yahoogroups.com > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > [mailto:AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > yahoogroups.com > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On > > > > Behalf Of Courtland Jacob > > > > Sent: Friday, August 07, 2009 7:26 PM > > > > To: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > yahoogroups.com > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > Subject: [AquaticLife] penn plax canister filter > > > > > > > > any experince? opinions? > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 42591	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 8/8/2009
Subject: Re: A Marine Logic Problem

Okay here is my guess, LOL Victor, had clam and lionfish, fed in the evening, and had the algae problem Aviva, Scooter blenny, and urchin, had temp problems and fed at night. Michael, bluetang and shrimp, fed in the afternoon, pH problems. Ruth, clownfish and anemone, fed in morning, had lighting issues. Now what do I win if I actually got it right? LOL Amber bill 1433 wrote: > > > > Len, > > (on 3rd coffee) I have not been into salt water for many years > BUT.................. > > I strongly question the first two words, "Four Kids"? > > I immediately call your attention to # 3, "The Lionfish"!!!!! > > Sorry, but Lionfish belong in the care of (please notice I did not say > "hands of") a very experienced hobbyist. These fish, although quite > beautiful, are very dangerous and a cut or scrap from their dorsal > spins can be hazardous to your health to say nothing of a child's. > > Right grid? I wonder who wrote that one!!! > I'm thinking this is not the "25 Point" bonus question? > > Bill > > --- On Sat, 8/8/09, Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@... > <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com>> wrote: > > From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@... > <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com>> > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] A Marine Logic Problem > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Date: Saturday, August 8, 2009, 9:11 AM > > Shouldn't we just *steal* the post so we can try to solve it here? > Oops... I > meant *borrow* it. LOL > > Bill, do not try this until you've had at least a couple of cups of > coffee. > ;-) > > Aquarium Logic puzzle > > ------------------------------------------------------- > > Four kids have started aquariums in their houses. They all had one > fish and > one invertebrate in their tank. Unfortunately, they also each had a > different problem with their tank. One tank had lighting issues, > another had > pH problems, one couldn't maintain the right temperature, and the > other one > had an algae outbreak. They each fed their tanks at different times of day > (morning, afternoon, evening, and night). Figure out who owned which tank > and which problem, the fish and the invertebrate that lived there, and the > time of day that the owners fed their tank. > > 1. The aquarium that was fed in the evening had an algae bloom problem. > Victor did not feed his tank in the morning. > 2. The tank with temperature problems had an urchin in it. Ruth did > not feed > her tank in the evening. > 3. The lionfish did not have a pH problem in its tank. The clownfish tank > had lighting issues. > 4. The anemone's tank was not fed at night. > 5. Victor, who did not have a clownfish, had a clam in his tank. Aviva's > scooter blenny was not in the tank with the algae problem. > 6. Michael, who did not have a clownfish, fed his tank in the > afternoon. The > blue tang and the shrimp lived in the same tank, but they did not eat > in the > morning. > > I'll post the solution in a couple of days. If you've never done a logic > puzzle before, do a Google search. They are easy to solve with the right > grid. > > --------------------------------------------------------- > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right > side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On > Behalf Of Steve Szabo > Sent: Saturday, August 08, 2009 7:41 AM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Subject: [AquaticLife] A Marine Logic Problem > > Ready to do some thinking? Manhattan Reefs presents us with this logic > problem: > > http://www.manhattanreefs.com/forum/general-discussion/63594-aquarium-lo > <http://www.manhattanreefs.com/forum/general-discussion/63594-aquarium-lo> > gic-puzzle.html > > http://tinyurl.com/mxvszq <http://tinyurl.com/mxvszq> > > \\Steve// > > ------------------------------------ > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. > ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> > PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT > important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message > MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- > <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. > > If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of unsubscribing, > you can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My > Membership" on the home page. > > Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:aquaticlife-digest%40yahoogroups.com> to receive the digest, > which includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email > > Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:aquaticlife-nomail%40yahoogroups.com> for the No E-Mail option > where you will still be able to read messages on the group and post > replies. > > Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:aquaticlife-normal%40yahoogroups.com> to receive individual > e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 42592	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 8/8/2009
Subject: Re: My Balloon RedEye Tetra has less fins than otherwise normal

How long has this tank been set up and what are your water parameters? (pH, temp, ammonia, nitrites, nitrates). Amber David Keymel wrote: > > > Hey guys. I have a tetra. You can see it here: > > http://www.petsolutions.com/Red-Eye-Balloon-Body-Tetra+I41025+C79.aspx > <http://www.petsolutions.com/Red-Eye-Balloon-Body-Tetra+I41025+C79.aspx> > > Thats not him, but the type. We had 6 of them in our 20 gallon tank > with a few random other fishes, one of them being a german blue ram. > The other is a molly, and a guppy. The ram is only a temporary > resident, its a girl. > > So. Anyway we came home various days of the week to find 1 of our > tetras dead. this happened twice we are down to 4. No idea why or what > happened. It has happened to other fishes we had in the tank also. One > will die, a few weeks or more go buy then another random death. It > seems suspiciously natural but not. I cannot find a reason for it > really. > > This last time we came home, we found a tetra on the bottom, thought > it was dead. But we looked closer, it was still active. the gills were > going and everything. Just no tail fin. He didn't appear to have fin > rot. I cannot find any evidence of disease or anything like that. > seems perfectly fine other than the fact he cannot swim and sits on > the bottom of the tank. Hes been working his way around the bottom of > the tank for days now and i dont know what to do with him. I can only > guess that maybe the ram nipped his tail off one day, but i have not > seen any aggressive history from her at all. We have a long tailed > guppy that would be a much more interesting target. > > So what should i do about this? He seems to get along ok, the other > fish have not been picking on him really. Is he going to get better or > just hang out down there the rest of his life? Is there anything i can > do to promote his tail growth? Thnx guys and girls. > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 42593	From: Dora Smith	Date: 8/8/2009
Subject: Re: Honorary catfish gets a forever home ;-) OT

LOL! I had to see what in the world is an honorary catfish. Yours, Dora Smith Austin, TX tiggernut24@... ----- Original Message ----- From: "pam andress" <pamandress23@...> To: <aquaticlife@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Saturday, August 08, 2009 3:16 PM Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Honorary catfish gets a forever home ;-) OT I'm so glad your neice is the new mommy for the kitten. Sure is a cutie and thanks for letting us know. Pam To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com From: menagerie_manager@... Date: Sat, 8 Aug 2009 10:26:23 -0400 Subject: [AquaticLife] Honorary catfish gets a forever home ;-) OT In case anyone has been wondering about the newborn kitten that I posted about back in early July, I was able to get him through his bloating problem and Friday night he went home with my adult niece, who had to have her at put to sleep a couple of months ago. I'm posting a link to my Facebook photo album, which I think is set so you can access it without joining Facebook: http://www.facebook.com/album.php?aid=2026421&id=1124712084&l=e9ef6f692c DebR and the Three Goldfish (CB, Lucille, and Raven) [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] ------------------------------------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. `..><((((>.`..`.><((((> .`.. , .`..><((((> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <((((><.`..`.<((((><.`.. , .`..<((((><`.. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the home page. Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com to receive the digest, which includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com for the No E-Mail option where you will still be able to read messages on the group and post replies. Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com to receive individual e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 42594	From: Menagerie_Manager	Date: 8/8/2009
Subject: Re: A Marine Logic Problem

Yes, but what time will the two trains meet? DebR and the Three Goldfish (CB, Lucille, and Raven) ----- Original Message ----- From: "Amber Berglund" <arberglund@...> > Okay here is my guess, LOL > Victor, had clam and lionfish, fed in the evening, and had the algae > problem > Aviva, Scooter blenny, and urchin, had temp problems and fed at night. > Michael, bluetang and shrimp, fed in the afternoon, pH problems. > Ruth, clownfish and anemone, fed in morning, had lighting issues. > > Now what do I win if I actually got it right? LOL > > Amber

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 42595	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 8/8/2009
Subject: Re: Honorary catfish gets a forever home ;-) OT

He's very cute Deb, glad to see he's doing so well too, looks like a happy kitten there :) Amber Menagerie_Manager wrote: > > > In case anyone has been wondering about the newborn kitten that I > posted about back in early July, I was able to get him through his > bloating > problem and Friday night he went home with my adult niece, who had to > have > her at put to sleep a couple of months ago. I'm posting a link to my > Facebook photo album, which I think is set so you can access it without > joining Facebook: > http://www.facebook.com/album.php?aid=2026421&id=1124712084&l=e9ef6f692c > <http://www.facebook.com/album.php?aid=2026421&id=1124712084&l=e9ef6f692c> > > DebR and the Three Goldfish > (CB, Lucille, and Raven) > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 42596	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 8/8/2009
Subject: Re: A Marine Logic Problem

never, because they never actually pass each other ;) LOL Amber Menagerie_Manager wrote: > > > Yes, but what time will the two trains meet? > > DebR and the Three Goldfish > (CB, Lucille, and Raven) > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Amber Berglund" <arberglund@... > <mailto:arberglund%40gmail.com>> > > > Okay here is my guess, LOL > > Victor, had clam and lionfish, fed in the evening, and had the algae > > problem > > Aviva, Scooter blenny, and urchin, had temp problems and fed at night. > > Michael, bluetang and shrimp, fed in the afternoon, pH problems. > > Ruth, clownfish and anemone, fed in morning, had lighting issues. > > > > Now what do I win if I actually got it right? LOL > > > > Amber > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 42597	From: Donna Ransome	Date: 8/8/2009
Subject: Re: penn plax canister filter

Well it was new, thus they were replacing a defective part. But nice to send the whole kit...it's a big kit. -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Amber Berglund Sent: Saturday, August 08, 2009 7:24 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: penn plax canister filter Wow that was nice of them to send it for free, another reason to get one I suppose. Eheim parts are an arm and a leg to replace ;) LOL Amber Donna Ransome wrote: > > Another vote for rena XP canister filters, once in a lifetime to > prime, lots > of configurations on the water return. And, I had a hairline crack in a > water return part which caused a slow drip. It dripped right back into the > tank anyway, but I had visions of the crack exploding while I was sleeping > or at work, LOL. I called rena. They send me the entire “accessory” kit > for free, no questions asked. > > PS by the time I got the kit (practically overnight) enough mineral > deposits > formed to stop the leak anyway I’m still using the original part. > > _____ > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On > Behalf Of Amber Berglund > Sent: Friday, August 07, 2009 11:06 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: penn plax canister filter > > Yes, you're right, that's the proper order of things ;) LOL > I had lots of parts, I put it about 4 inches down from the top of the > water line myself. > > Amber > > Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > > > > > > Amber, I think you should unplug it first, then unhook the hoses. > I'm not > > sure what would happen if you unhook the hoses first but it doesn't > sound > > good. ;-) > > > > My plastic parts had several extension sections so I have my intake > nearly > > all the way to the bottom of my tank, which is 17" deep. > > > > Maybe they do not include as many plastic parts any longer. > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>> blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>> blogspot.com> > > (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right > > side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, > Month) > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > yahoogroups.com > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > [mailto:AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > yahoogroups.com > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On > > Behalf Of Amber Berglund > > Sent: Friday, August 07, 2009 9:10 PM > > To: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: penn plax canister filter > > > > You don't need to use the funnel after the first time you prime it. Just > > make sure you unhook the hoses then turn it off and the hoses will stay > > full. > > So when you hook it back up after cleaning the filter cartridges > > inside all > > you have to do is refill the water with tank water and hook it all > back up > > and plug it in. It should start running like normal. > > And they have 2 different intake lengths, so you can have it at the > > surface > > or a little deeper. > > > > Amber > > > > Courtland Jacob wrote: > > > > > > > > > does the rena outlet submerge a good bit into the water? also is it > > > not a pain to have to use that funnel to prime it? > > > > > > --- In AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > yahoogroups.com > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>, "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" > > > <GoldLenny@...> wrote: > > > > > > > > I've never owned a Penn Plax canister filter but I have owned other > > > > Penn Plax stuff and it's not the best quality stuff, IMO, but it is > > > generally a > > > > lower priced product so you have to balance out the price with the > > > quality. > > > > If I were you, I would look at and compare it to a Rena Filstar > > > canister for > > > > price difference and if the Rena isn't too much more, get the Rena > > > Filstar. > > > > I own a couple of them and have NEVER had a single problem with any > > > of them > > > > in the four years that I've had them. I think others in the group > > > will also > > > > give good remarks about the Rena Filstar canister filters. > > > > > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>> > blogspot.com > > <http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>> blogspot.com> > > > <http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>> blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>> blogspot.com>> > > > > (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the > > > > right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by > > > > Year, > > > Month) > > > > > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > > From: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > yahoogroups.com > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > [mailto:AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > yahoogroups.com > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On > > > > Behalf Of Courtland Jacob > > > > Sent: Friday, August 07, 2009 7:26 PM > > > > To: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > yahoogroups.com > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > Subject: [AquaticLife] penn plax canister filter > > > > > > > > any experince? opinions? > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > ------------------------------------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the home page. Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com to receive the digest, which includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com for the No E-Mail option where you will still be able to read messages on the group and post replies. Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com to receive individual e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 42598	From: jett07002	Date: 8/8/2009
Subject: Just a "financial thought"

I read an answer that Lenny gave about the Penn Plax filter and buying it on line with Pay Pal not having to give your credit card info. It rang a bell and I thought I would share with whoever may be interested that if you have an account with Discover Card (and I am not pushing Discover: Others may do the same thing, but I am not aware of them.)....the Discover card has a process that you can use to buy on the internet. They give you a special one-time-use number. After you buy what you want that number will not be honored anymore. Saves you from giving out you credit card number, etc. and protects you from anyone trying to use your account. Do not know anything about Pay Pal so I can not comment on that system. joe t

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 42599	From: nicurns@bellsouth.net	Date: 8/8/2009
Subject: Re: Just a "financial thought"

PayPal is GREAT!!!!! It's an account you set-up using a credit card, and then your PayPal account transfers all the monies from one PayPal acct to another. It's very safe as we have used for years and never had a single problem. James S. --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "jett07002" <jett07002@...> wrote: > > I read an answer that Lenny gave about the Penn Plax filter and buying it on line with Pay Pal not having to give your credit card info. It rang a bell and I thought I would share with whoever may be interested that if you have an account with Discover Card (and I am not pushing Discover: Others may do the same thing, but I am not aware of them.)....the Discover card has a process that you can use to buy on the internet. They give you a special one-time-use number. After you buy what you want that number will not be honored anymore. Saves you from giving out you credit card number, etc. and protects you from anyone trying to use your account. > > Do not know anything about Pay Pal so I can not comment on that system. > > joe t >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 42600	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 8/8/2009
Subject: Re: Just a "financial thought"

Visa has a similar plan, as does MasterCard. \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of jett07002 Sent: Saturday, August 08, 2009 8:54 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Just a "financial thought" I read an answer that Lenny gave about the Penn Plax filter and buying it on line with Pay Pal not having to give your credit card info. It rang a bell and I thought I would share with whoever may be interested that if you have an account with Discover Card (and I am not pushing Discover: Others may do the same thing, but I am not aware of them.)....the Discover card has a process that you can use to buy on the internet. They give you a special one-time-use number. After you buy what you want that number will not be honored anymore. Saves you from giving out you credit card number, etc. and protects you from anyone trying to use your account. Do not know anything about Pay Pal so I can not comment on that system. joe t ------------------------------------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the home page. Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com to receive the digest, which includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com for the No E-Mail option where you will still be able to read messages on the group and post replies. Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com to receive individual e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 42601	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 8/8/2009
Subject: Re: A Marine Logic Problem

Depends on which of, or if both Train Engineers are texting or not. ;-) Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Menagerie_Manager Sent: Saturday, August 08, 2009 7:36 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] A Marine Logic Problem Yes, but what time will the two trains meet? DebR and the Three Goldfish (CB, Lucille, and Raven) ----- Original Message ----- From: "Amber Berglund" <arberglund@...> > Okay here is my guess, LOL > Victor, had clam and lionfish, fed in the evening, and had the algae > problem Aviva, Scooter blenny, and urchin, had temp problems and fed > at night. > Michael, bluetang and shrimp, fed in the afternoon, pH problems. > Ruth, clownfish and anemone, fed in morning, had lighting issues. > > Now what do I win if I actually got it right? LOL > > Amber ------------------------------------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the home page. Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com to receive the digest, which includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com for the No E-Mail option where you will still be able to read messages on the group and post replies. Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com to receive individual e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 42602	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 8/8/2009
Subject: Re: Just a "financial thought"

Most credit cards do this nowadays. The security problems lie more with debit cards and how they are tied directly to checking/savings accounts. So many folks use debit cards nowadays that it's a LOT more dangerous for a debit card user on the internet.. or any other use if they should lose their card and password. They are not protected by the same federal regulations that credit card users have. For example, if someone uses your credit card unlawfully, you are only legally liable for a limited amount of money... usually $50.00... but if someone gets your debit cart number, you have ZERO protection until they wipe out your checking/savings account completely. If you use a debit card for many purchases, then setting up the debit card through PayPal is the safer way to go. You could also set up the PayPal account where it's funded by your checking or savings account if you do not have a credit or debit card. I have a LOT of customers that pay me with PayPal and the only info I get on them is their email address so for new customers, they feel much safer sending me money this way.. especially new customers. I originally had my PayPal account tied to my checking account so that I could just use the PayPal MasterCard debit card for all of my purchases but I no longer have that and I do not leave as much money in my PayPal account any longer. I transfer it to my main checking account and then as needed, transfer it back to PayPal as needed. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of jett07002 Sent: Saturday, August 08, 2009 7:54 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Just a "financial thought" I read an answer that Lenny gave about the Penn Plax filter and buying it on line with Pay Pal not having to give your credit card info. It rang a bell and I thought I would share with whoever may be interested that if you have an account with Discover Card (and I am not pushing Discover: Others may do the same thing, but I am not aware of them.)....the Discover card has a process that you can use to buy on the internet. They give you a special one-time-use number. After you buy what you want that number will not be honored anymore. Saves you from giving out you credit card number, etc. and protects you from anyone trying to use your account. Do not know anything about Pay Pal so I can not comment on that system. joe t

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 42603	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 8/8/2009
Subject: Re: Just a "financial thought"

So does Amex.... \\Steve//, if you'd like me to test the security on your Platinum Amex, send me your account number and I'll let you know how it works. ;-) Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Steve Szabo Sent: Saturday, August 08, 2009 8:57 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Just a "financial thought" Visa has a similar plan, as does MasterCard. \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of jett07002 Sent: Saturday, August 08, 2009 8:54 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Just a "financial thought" I read an answer that Lenny gave about the Penn Plax filter and buying it on line with Pay Pal not having to give your credit card info. It rang a bell and I thought I would share with whoever may be interested that if you have an account with Discover Card (and I am not pushing Discover: Others may do the same thing, but I am not aware of them.)....the Discover card has a process that you can use to buy on the internet. They give you a special one-time-use number. After you buy what you want that number will not be honored anymore. Saves you from giving out you credit card number, etc. and protects you from anyone trying to use your account. Do not know anything about Pay Pal so I can not comment on that system. joe t

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 42604	From: o1bigtenor	Date: 8/8/2009
Subject: Re: Just a "financial thought"

Paypal is NOT always great. They have some money of mine that they 'required' for verification that they have had for over 18 months. I also know of much more serious horror stories. This using the aforementioned credit card is far better than 'Paypal' (I would like to use another anacronym!!) D On Sat, Aug 8, 2009 at 7:44 PM, nicurns@... < james_kristi@...> wrote: > PayPal is GREAT!!!!! It's an account you set-up using a credit card, and > then your PayPal account transfers all the monies from one PayPal acct to > another. It's very safe as we have used for years and never > had a single problem. > > James S. > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "jett07002" <jett07002@...> wrote: > > > > I read an answer that Lenny gave about the Penn Plax filter and buying it > on line with Pay Pal not having to give your credit card info. It rang a > bell and I thought I would share with whoever may be interested that if you > have an account with Discover Card (and I am not pushing Discover: Others > may do the same thing, but I am not aware of them.)....the Discover card has > a process that you can use to buy on the internet. They give you a special > one-time-use number. After you buy what you want that number will not be > honored anymore. Saves you from giving out you credit card number, etc. and > protects you from anyone trying to use your account. > > > > Do not know anything about Pay Pal so I can not comment on that system. > > > > joe t > > > > > > > ------------------------------------ > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. > ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> > PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to > the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT > LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- > <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. > > If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of unsubscribing, you > can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the > home page. > > Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com to receive the digest, which > includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email > > Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com for the No E-Mail option where > you will still be able to read messages on the group and post replies. > > Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com to receive individual > e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 42605	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 8/8/2009
Subject: Re: My Balloon RedEye Tetra has less fins than otherwise normal

Hmmmm.. I missed this original post. David, Give us more info about your tank, your maintenance schedule and procedures. Is the tank heated? As Amber asked, do you have a Master Test Kit and do you test your water on a regular basis to see what is happening as far as any changes that could be causing water chemistry shock issues? If you want a guideline of even more questions that could be helpful, go to my blog and copy/paste the Sick Fish Questionnaire and answer those questions and something else might jump out at us as the cause. If you do not have a Master Test Kit, you should probably get one. Walmart.com has either the API or Tetratest-Laborette brand for under $20.00 and either of these would last you about a year so it's a small price to pay to give you (and us) more information about what is going on with your tank. You also have some mis-matched fish in your tank. I realize the female Ram is only temporary but they prefer softer water and a lower pH whereas the livebearers (guppy and molly) prefer harder water and a higher pH. The "Balloon" Red-Eye Tetras are probably an inbred mutation/morph of the normal Red-eyed Tetra, also called the Red-eyed Moe, since the PetSolutions page even uses the same scientific name, Moenkhausia sanctaefilomenae. See these profiles for more info on them. http://fish.mongabay.com/species/Moenkhausia_sanctaefilomenae.html http://www.thetropicaltank.co.uk/Fishindx/tet-rede.htm http://www.fishbase.org/Summary/SpeciesSummary.php?id=10674 As you will see, they should be kept in schools of six or more and when schooling fish are not kept in schools, they will often exhibit anti-social behavior, including fin nipping. There should also be more females than males so that you do not have males fighting over the same female. If the tail fin is not chewed down to the peduncle, it will grow back but it's best to move the fish to it's own recovery tank and use something like Melafix which will aid in healing the damaged fin and preventing secondary infection. It could take several weeks for it to grow back and although the other fish may not be bothering it right now, the injured fish is certainly feeling a LOT of stress knowing how vulnerable it is and this added stress will hurt it's recovery. You would also be able to make sure it's getting enough food in a recovery tank. I've used something as simple as a Sterilite clear storage box and a simple sponge filter as a recovery tank but a 10G tank kit (Walmart sells them cheap) also works. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Amber Berglund Sent: Saturday, August 08, 2009 6:56 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] My Balloon RedEye Tetra has less fins than otherwise normal How long has this tank been set up and what are your water parameters? (pH, temp, ammonia, nitrites, nitrates). Amber David Keymel wrote: > > > Hey guys. I have a tetra. You can see it here: > > http://www.petsolutions.com/Red-Eye-Balloon-Body-Tetra+I41025+C79.aspx > <http://www.petsolutions.com/Red-Eye-Balloon-Body-Tetra+I41025+C79.asp > x> > > Thats not him, but the type. We had 6 of them in our 20 gallon tank > with a few random other fishes, one of them being a german blue ram. > The other is a molly, and a guppy. The ram is only a temporary > resident, its a girl. > > So. Anyway we came home various days of the week to find 1 of our > tetras dead. this happened twice we are down to 4. No idea why or what > happened. It has happened to other fishes we had in the tank also. One > will die, a few weeks or more go buy then another random death. It > seems suspiciously natural but not. I cannot find a reason for it > really. > > This last time we came home, we found a tetra on the bottom, thought > it was dead. But we looked closer, it was still active. the gills were > going and everything. Just no tail fin. He didn't appear to have fin > rot. I cannot find any evidence of disease or anything like that. > seems perfectly fine other than the fact he cannot swim and sits on > the bottom of the tank. Hes been working his way around the bottom of > the tank for days now and i dont know what to do with him. I can only > guess that maybe the ram nipped his tail off one day, but i have not > seen any aggressive history from her at all. We have a long tailed > guppy that would be a much more interesting target. > > So what should i do about this? He seems to get along ok, the other > fish have not been picking on him really. Is he going to get better or > just hang out down there the rest of his life? Is there anything i can > do to promote his tail growth? Thnx guys and girls. >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 42606	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 8/8/2009
Subject: Re: Just a "financial thought"

ALL financial institutions have their respective horror stories. For people spending their money with PayPal, it's relatively harmless but for merchants accepting money through PayPal, there are more but still very limited chances of a horror story. I've read all of the online anti-PayPal sites which is why I do NOT leave a lot of my customers payments in my PayPal account. I'm not sure what you mean by they required some of your money for verification. I've had my personal and merchant PayPal accounts for many years and do not recall this process. If anything, I remember being dumbfounded that PayPal actually made a couple of small deposits into my checking account when I first got my merchant account to verify that my account was legitimate. They never asked for the money back... although it was only a dollar or two but if they do that to every account, that could add up to quite a bit of money. I guess they make it back in the fees we pay but the fees are not really out of line with what other Merchant accounts charge. Further, by using my PayPal MasterCard debit card in the credit card mode with places I shop, I get the cash-back reward so that pretty much offsets the merchant fees each month. This cash-back only works if you specifically say that the PayPal debit card is a credit card and do not use your PIN but instead have to sign the receipt or electronic signature pad. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of o1bigtenor Sent: Saturday, August 08, 2009 10:17 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: Just a "financial thought" Paypal is NOT always great. They have some money of mine that they 'required' for verification that they have had for over 18 months. I also know of much more serious horror stories. This using the aforementioned credit card is far better than 'Paypal' (I would like to use another anacronym!!) D On Sat, Aug 8, 2009 at 7:44 PM, nicurns@... < james_kristi@...> wrote: > PayPal is GREAT!!!!! It's an account you set-up using a credit card, > and then your PayPal account transfers all the monies from one PayPal > acct to another. It's very safe as we have used for years and never > had a single problem. > > James S. > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "jett07002" <jett07002@...> wrote: > > > > I read an answer that Lenny gave about the Penn Plax filter and > > buying it > on line with Pay Pal not having to give your credit card info. It > rang a bell and I thought I would share with whoever may be interested > that if you have an account with Discover Card (and I am not pushing > Discover: Others may do the same thing, but I am not aware of > them.)....the Discover card has a process that you can use to buy on > the internet. They give you a special one-time-use number. After you > buy what you want that number will not be honored anymore. Saves you > from giving out you credit card number, etc. and protects you from anyone trying to use your account. > > > > Do not know anything about Pay Pal so I can not comment on that system. > > > > joe t

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 42607	From: Courtland Jacob	Date: 8/8/2009
Subject: Re: penn plax canister filter

well i have a 55 gallon tank, and right now i can find the marineland c series for less than the rena, and the c series is supposed to be pretty good, my hob filters are from marineland and they make areally good products --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@...> wrote: > > I just did a Yahoo Shopping search on the Rena Filstar XP1 and found them > for under $100.00 at a couple of places. > > This one even has them at a clearance price of only $80.00 although I KNOW > NOTHING about this online retailer so I cannot vouch for them but if you can > check them out and find they are OK, that is a really GOOD price. I see > they do accept PayPal so at least you have some assurance with PayPal and > you don't have to give out your credit card info when using PayPal. > http://www.valuepetsupplies.com/Shop/Control/Product/fp/SFV/32440/vpid/61666 > 77/vpcsid/0/rid/126301?zmam=33541279&zmas=1&zmac=9&zmap=720 > > DrsFosterSmith.com, which is a well-known online retailer, has the XP1 for > $119.00. > http://www.drsfostersmith.com/product/prod_display.cfm?pcatid=3602&cmpid=03c > seyh&ref=3473&subref=AA&srccode=cii_1038957&cpncode=23-47545636-2 > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right > side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On > Behalf Of Courtland Jacob > Sent: Friday, August 07, 2009 8:40 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: penn plax canister filter > > the penn plax is 92 at petco, the rena filters are 149 at petsmart, and 119 > online at petco, more in store, and the marineland filter is on sale for 119 > at petco > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Courtland Jacob" <courtland_jacob@> > wrote: > > > > any experince? opinions? > > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 42608	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 8/8/2009
Subject: Re: A Marine Logic Problem... now Cajun Logic

Check the original link that \\Steve// posted, http://tinyurl.com/mxvszq and see if you got it right. LOL Your prize would be that you are the smartest Alaskan in the AquaticLife group. ;-) I haven't had the willpower to work it out yet. I use to do these things like crazy when I was younger but haven't fooled with one in years. Nowadays, I like Cajun Logic much better.... Two Cajuns, Boudreaux and Thibodaux, are sitting at their favorite bar, drinking beer. Boudreaux turns to Thibodaux and says, "You know, I'm tired of going through life without an education. Tomorrow I think I'll go to the community college and sign up for some classes." Thibodaux agrees that it's a good idea. The next day, Boudreaux goes down to the college and meets the Dean of Admissions, who signs him up for four basic classes: Math, English, History, and Logic. "Logic?" Boudreaux asks, "what's that?" The dean says, "I'll show you. Do you own a lawnmower?" "Yeah." "Then logically speaking, because you own a lawnmower, I think that you would have a yard." "That's true, I do have a yard." "I'm not done," the dean says. "Because you have a yard, I think logically that you would have a house." "Yes, I do have a house!" "And because you have a house, I think that you might logically have a family." "I do have a family." "I'm not done yet. Because you have a family, then logically you must have a wife." "Yes, I do have a wife." "And because you have a wife, then logic tells me you must be heterosexual." "I am heterosexual. That's amazing, you were able to find out all of that because I have a lawnmower." Excited to take the class now, Boudreaux shakes the Dean's hand and leaves to go meet Thibodaux at the bar. He tells Thibodaux about his classes, how he has signed up for Math, English, History and Logic. "Logic?" Thibodaux says, "What's that?" "I'll show you," says Boudreaux. "Do you have a lawnmower?" "No." "Then you must be gay!" I can't tell any of my many other Cajun jokes out here. This was the *cleanest* one that I remember. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Amber Berglund Sent: Saturday, August 08, 2009 6:54 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] A Marine Logic Problem Okay here is my guess, LOL Victor, had clam and lionfish, fed in the evening, and had the algae problem Aviva, Scooter blenny, and urchin, had temp problems and fed at night. Michael, bluetang and shrimp, fed in the afternoon, pH problems. Ruth, clownfish and anemone, fed in morning, had lighting issues. Now what do I win if I actually got it right? LOL Amber bill 1433 wrote: > > > > Len, > > (on 3rd coffee) I have not been into salt water for many years > BUT.................. > > I strongly question the first two words, "Four Kids"? > > I immediately call your attention to # 3, "The Lionfish"!!!!! > > Sorry, but Lionfish belong in the care of (please notice I did not say > "hands of") a very experienced hobbyist. These fish, although quite > beautiful, are very dangerous and a cut or scrap from their dorsal > spins can be hazardous to your health to say nothing of a child's. > > Right grid? I wonder who wrote that one!!! > I'm thinking this is not the "25 Point" bonus question? > > Bill > > --- On Sat, 8/8/09, Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@... > <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com>> wrote: > > From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@... > <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com>> > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] A Marine Logic Problem > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Date: Saturday, August 8, 2009, 9:11 AM > > Shouldn't we just *steal* the post so we can try to solve it here? > Oops... I > meant *borrow* it. LOL > > Bill, do not try this until you've had at least a couple of cups of > coffee. > ;-) > > Aquarium Logic puzzle > > ------------------------------------------------------- > > Four kids have started aquariums in their houses. They all had one > fish and one invertebrate in their tank. Unfortunately, they also each > had a different problem with their tank. One tank had lighting issues, > another had pH problems, one couldn't maintain the right temperature, > and the other one had an algae outbreak. They each fed their tanks at > different times of day (morning, afternoon, evening, and night). > Figure out who owned which tank and which problem, the fish and the > invertebrate that lived there, and the time of day that the owners fed > their tank. > > 1. The aquarium that was fed in the evening had an algae bloom problem. > Victor did not feed his tank in the morning. > 2. The tank with temperature problems had an urchin in it. Ruth did > not feed her tank in the evening. > 3. The lionfish did not have a pH problem in its tank. The clownfish > tank had lighting issues. > 4. The anemone's tank was not fed at night. > 5. Victor, who did not have a clownfish, had a clam in his tank. > Aviva's scooter blenny was not in the tank with the algae problem. > 6. Michael, who did not have a clownfish, fed his tank in the > afternoon. The blue tang and the shrimp lived in the same tank, but > they did not eat in the morning. > > I'll post the solution in a couple of days. If you've never done a > logic puzzle before, do a Google search. They are easy to solve with > the right grid. > > --------------------------------------------------------- > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> (Links to any articles referenced in > above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels > and also under Archives by Year, Month) > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On Behalf Of Steve Szabo > Sent: Saturday, August 08, 2009 7:41 AM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Subject: [AquaticLife] A Marine Logic Problem > > Ready to do some thinking? Manhattan Reefs presents us with this logic > problem: > > http://www.manhattanreefs.com/forum/general-discussion/63594-aquarium- > lo > <http://www.manhattanreefs.com/forum/general-discussion/63594-aquarium > -lo> > gic-puzzle.html > > http://tinyurl.com/mxvszq <http://tinyurl.com/mxvszq> > > \\Steve// > > ------------------------------------ > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. > ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , > .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT > that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the > original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: > old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. > > If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of unsubscribing, > you can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My > Membership" on the home page. > > Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:aquaticlife-digest%40yahoogroups.com> to receive the digest, > which includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email > > Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:aquaticlife-nomail%40yahoogroups.com> for the No E-Mail option > where you will still be able to read messages on the group and post > replies. > > Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:aquaticlife-normal%40yahoogroups.com> to receive individual > e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links > > ------------------------------------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the home page. Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com to receive the digest, which includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com for the No E-Mail option where you will still be able to read messages on the group and post replies. Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com to receive individual e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 42609	From: Lisa Lawless	Date: 8/8/2009
Subject: re; I'm getting my first home

Ok, guys, lets be very clear on this. I CAN'T get a hold of the water. I don't have any existing neighbours yet. It a block of units that are ALL being built. there is no residents, and no plumbing untill hand over at the end of OCT.   I understand the idea that you're all suggesting. It's a very good one, and appriciated.  But it's not pysically possible lol.   Lisa       __________________________________________________________________________________ Find local businesses and services in your area with Yahoo!7 Local. Get started: http://local.yahoo.com.au [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 42610	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 8/9/2009
Subject: Re: Just a "financial thought"

I have the same $50 limit of liability on my debit card as is given to credit cards, and I can also get the special transaction numbers as well with it. \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Lenny V. aka GoldLenny Sent: Saturday, August 08, 2009 11:38 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Just a "financial thought" Most credit cards do this nowadays. The security problems lie more with debit cards and how they are tied directly to checking/savings accounts. So many folks use debit cards nowadays that it's a LOT more dangerous for a debit card user on the internet.. or any other use if they should lose their card and password. They are not protected by the same federal regulations that credit card users have. For example, if someone uses your credit card unlawfully, you are only legally liable for a limited amount of money... usually $50.00... but if someone gets your debit cart number, you have ZERO protection until they wipe out your checking/savings account completely. If you use a debit card for many purchases, then setting up the debit card through PayPal is the safer way to go. You could also set up the PayPal account where it's funded by your checking or savings account if you do not have a credit or debit card. I have a LOT of customers that pay me with PayPal and the only info I get on them is their email address so for new customers, they feel much safer sending me money this way.. especially new customers. I originally had my PayPal account tied to my checking account so that I could just use the PayPal MasterCard debit card for all of my purchases but I no longer have that and I do not leave as much money in my PayPal account any longer. I transfer it to my main checking account and then as needed, transfer it back to PayPal as needed. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of jett07002 Sent: Saturday, August 08, 2009 7:54 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Just a "financial thought" I read an answer that Lenny gave about the Penn Plax filter and buying it on line with Pay Pal not having to give your credit card info. It rang a bell and I thought I would share with whoever may be interested that if you have an account with Discover Card (and I am not pushing Discover: Others may do the same thing, but I am not aware of them.)....the Discover card has a process that you can use to buy on the internet. They give you a special one-time-use number. After you buy what you want that number will not be honored anymore. Saves you from giving out you credit card number, etc. and protects you from anyone trying to use your account. Do not know anything about Pay Pal so I can not comment on that system. joe t ------------------------------------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the home page. Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com to receive the digest, which includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com for the No E-Mail option where you will still be able to read messages on the group and post replies. Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com to receive individual e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 42611	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 8/9/2009
Subject: Re: Just a "financial thought"

Lenny, I'd love to do that. However, I do not have a single credit card, nor have I ever held one. Too expensive for my tastes. \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Lenny V. aka GoldLenny Sent: Saturday, August 08, 2009 11:40 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Just a "financial thought" So does Amex.... \\Steve//, if you'd like me to test the security on your Platinum Amex, send me your account number and I'll let you know how it works. ;-) Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Steve Szabo Sent: Saturday, August 08, 2009 8:57 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Just a "financial thought" Visa has a similar plan, as does MasterCard. \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of jett07002 Sent: Saturday, August 08, 2009 8:54 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Just a "financial thought" I read an answer that Lenny gave about the Penn Plax filter and buying it on line with Pay Pal not having to give your credit card info. It rang a bell and I thought I would share with whoever may be interested that if you have an account with Discover Card (and I am not pushing Discover: Others may do the same thing, but I am not aware of them.)....the Discover card has a process that you can use to buy on the internet. They give you a special one-time-use number. After you buy what you want that number will not be honored anymore. Saves you from giving out you credit card number, etc. and protects you from anyone trying to use your account. Do not know anything about Pay Pal so I can not comment on that system. joe t

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 42612	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 8/9/2009
Subject: Re: re; I'm getting my first home

Lisa, I've followed this thread for a while, but I do not recall you noting the distance from your current home to your new home. This is a consideration in planning your fish move. Also, will you be keeping your current place until after you have moved, or is it I"I move out Saturday, and Sunday someone else moves in" kind of deal. I've always found it helpful to keep the old place for a month after the scheduled move on relatively short moves, so that we could take our time moving, and not be faced with having to do everything basically the same day or two days. It was only during an interstate move where I moved several states away, that this procedure was not followed. You also have to consider, with new construction, that you may be told it will be ready by October, that it may not actually be ready until November or December and plan with your landlord for this possibility. Also, since you will be moving in the spring (people, keep in mind that Lisa lives in Australia, so not only does water go down the drain in a swirl opposite to what you are used to seeing, she walks upside down, and the seasons are the opposite of ours), how variable is the temperature in your part of the country? Do you get 20°C temperatures in the day followed by 0°C nights, or is it more stable than that? \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Lisa Lawless Sent: Sunday, August 09, 2009 2:20 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] re; I'm getting my first home Ok, guys, lets be very clear on this. I CAN'T get a hold of the water. I don't have any existing neighbours yet. It a block of units that are ALL being built. there is no residents, and no plumbing untill hand over at the end of OCT.   I understand the idea that you're all suggesting. It's a very good one, and appriciated.  But it's not pysically possible lol.   Lisa

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 42613	From: Lisa Lawless	Date: 8/9/2009
Subject: re; i'm getting my first home

LOL, well at the moment we're not getting much past 18*. And I'm moving out of home, so my parents will still have this place. I figured it was best to do the move in as little time as possible, so there's not much fussing around.   Lisa   __________________________________________________________________________________ Find local businesses and services in your area with Yahoo!7 Local. Get started: http://local.yahoo.com.au [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 42614	From: Dora Smith	Date: 8/9/2009
Subject: Re: Just a "financial thought"

What company is that? Yours, Dora Smith Austin, TX tiggernut24@... ----- Original Message ----- From: "Steve Szabo" <steve@...> To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Sunday, August 09, 2009 2:55 AM Subject: [Bulk] RE: [AquaticLife] Just a "financial thought" I have the same $50 limit of liability on my debit card as is given to credit cards, and I can also get the special transaction numbers as well with it. \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Lenny V. aka GoldLenny Sent: Saturday, August 08, 2009 11:38 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Just a "financial thought" Most credit cards do this nowadays. The security problems lie more with debit cards and how they are tied directly to checking/savings accounts. So many folks use debit cards nowadays that it's a LOT more dangerous for a debit card user on the internet.. or any other use if they should lose their card and password. They are not protected by the same federal regulations that credit card users have. For example, if someone uses your credit card unlawfully, you are only legally liable for a limited amount of money... usually $50.00... but if someone gets your debit cart number, you have ZERO protection until they wipe out your checking/savings account completely. If you use a debit card for many purchases, then setting up the debit card through PayPal is the safer way to go. You could also set up the PayPal account where it's funded by your checking or savings account if you do not have a credit or debit card. I have a LOT of customers that pay me with PayPal and the only info I get on them is their email address so for new customers, they feel much safer sending me money this way.. especially new customers. I originally had my PayPal account tied to my checking account so that I could just use the PayPal MasterCard debit card for all of my purchases but I no longer have that and I do not leave as much money in my PayPal account any longer. I transfer it to my main checking account and then as needed, transfer it back to PayPal as needed. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of jett07002 Sent: Saturday, August 08, 2009 7:54 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Just a "financial thought" I read an answer that Lenny gave about the Penn Plax filter and buying it on line with Pay Pal not having to give your credit card info. It rang a bell and I thought I would share with whoever may be interested that if you have an account with Discover Card (and I am not pushing Discover: Others may do the same thing, but I am not aware of them.)....the Discover card has a process that you can use to buy on the internet. They give you a special one-time-use number. After you buy what you want that number will not be honored anymore. Saves you from giving out you credit card number, etc. and protects you from anyone trying to use your account. Do not know anything about Pay Pal so I can not comment on that system. joe t ------------------------------------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the home page. Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com to receive the digest, which includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com for the No E-Mail option where you will still be able to read messages on the group and post replies. Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com to receive individual e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links ------------------------------------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the home page. Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com to receive the digest, which includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com for the No E-Mail option where you will still be able to read messages on the group and post replies. Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com to receive individual e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 42615	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 8/9/2009
Subject: Re: re; I'm getting my first home

OK. Will your water supply be from a public utility or a private or semi-public well? If from a public utility, you can start reading over their water quality reports to learn what the water is supposed to be like.. at least when it leaves their facility and they may also have testing stations along the route to your home so try to find out the test results for the testing station nearest your home. I'm sure they will turn the water on at the home prior to your moving in, since they will have had to test the plumbing in the home anyhow, so maybe a couple of weeks before you are moving, check to see if the water is on. If it is, then you can do as we've suggested as far as testing your new water out the tap, compared to your current water out the tap compared to your tank water. Once you know those three things, you can start making more informed decisions. Further in the couple of weeks before your move, when going by the new house to check on it, bring one or two 5G buckets and bring home some of the new water. MAKE SURE YOU RUN THE FAUCET FOR A COUPLE OF MINUTES AT THE NEW HOUSE BEFORE SAVING ANY OF THE WATER SO THAT ANY WATER THAT HAS BEEN SITTING IN THE PIPES WILL BE FLUSHED OUT BEFORE YOU START FILLING YOUR 5G BUCKETS. Use this new home water when doing 10% PWC's on your current tank so the fish can start getting use to the new water. Another thing you can find out is if you will have copper plumbing or PVC plumbing? Especially if you find out your water is going to be acidic (low pH). If you do have copper plumbing and acidic (low pH) water, it will ALWAYS be best to run your tap water for a minute or two before using any water on your fish tank. If you have PVC plumbing, this isn't an issue. If you have basic (<<-scientific term for higher pH) water and copper plumbing, this isn't as much of an issue either. The above, along with everything else stated so far should give you a good guideline for making a safe transition and move to the new home. Remember to save the fish tank for the last thing to be moved and the first thing to set up in the new home. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Lisa Lawless Sent: Sunday, August 09, 2009 1:20 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] re; I'm getting my first home Ok, guys, lets be very clear on this. I CAN'T get a hold of the water. I don't have any existing neighbours yet. It a block of units that are ALL being built. there is no residents, and no plumbing untill hand over at the end of OCT.   I understand the idea that you're all suggesting. It's a very good one, and appriciated. But it's not pysically possible lol.   Lisa

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 42616	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 8/9/2009
Subject: Re: Just a "financial thought"

Hey... can't blame a guy for trying. LOL Would it have helped if I said I was a Nigerian attorney and I was holding $50,000,000.00 for someone with the same name as you... blah, blah, blah? I got rid of all but one business credit card, a long time ago as well... after I got rid of my ex-wife and all her shopping *expenses*. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Steve Szabo Sent: Sunday, August 09, 2009 2:57 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Just a "financial thought" Lenny, I'd love to do that. However, I do not have a single credit card, nor have I ever held one. Too expensive for my tastes. \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Lenny V. aka GoldLenny Sent: Saturday, August 08, 2009 11:40 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Just a "financial thought" So does Amex.... \\Steve//, if you'd like me to test the security on your Platinum Amex, send me your account number and I'll let you know how it works. ;-) Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Steve Szabo Sent: Saturday, August 08, 2009 8:57 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Just a "financial thought" Visa has a similar plan, as does MasterCard. \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of jett07002 Sent: Saturday, August 08, 2009 8:54 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Just a "financial thought" I read an answer that Lenny gave about the Penn Plax filter and buying it on line with Pay Pal not having to give your credit card info. It rang a bell and I thought I would share with whoever may be interested that if you have an account with Discover Card (and I am not pushing Discover: Others may do the same thing, but I am not aware of them.)....the Discover card has a process that you can use to buy on the internet. They give you a special one-time-use number. After you buy what you want that number will not be honored anymore. Saves you from giving out you credit card number, etc. and protects you from anyone trying to use your account. Do not know anything about Pay Pal so I can not comment on that system. joe t

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 42617	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 8/9/2009
Subject: Re: re; i'm getting my first home

Actually, this is a bonus for you when it comes time to move your fish. You still haven't mentioned the distance, but I am going to assume that it is something like a move across town, or to the next town, which means it is not far and that you would be able to get back to mom and dad's pretty easily. This is also presuming that you do not live where it takes 2 days to reach the nearest town <g>. I would suggest that you leave the tank in place until you get a chance to get everything else moved in, and relatively unpacked. I am also presuming here that both your new home and your parents have a municipal water supply, which means, that if you are still in the same town, the water will be fairly consistent between the two residences, so you would not need to worry very much about a change in the water. However, with it being new construction, the pH may well be higher as will the calcium hardness. This would be due to new concrete piping being laid to provide water to the development and the new homes. It will be important to get a baseline water test done, and repeat it every few months until you are sure the water is stable. If the water matches that which you have now, you have no problems, and the move should go fairly easily and without problems. First, you will need, for any move: 1. Enough bags to bag each fish; 2. A cooler or Styrofoam box to hold the bags (some people may need more than one); 3. Container(s) to move at least some of the water. Since your parents will still have possession of your current residence (they are not moving also, are they?), the fish may be moved separately from the rest of your stuff. I would suggest they be the last to be moved, maybe a day or two after you move, since you are likely to be exhausting yourself to move everything else and get it set up so you can do some semblance of living and sleeping. Do not feed your fish for at least one day prior to moving day. When moving day comes for the fish, be sure you have the extra equipment listed above available for the move. Empty at least half the water in the tank into the water container(s). Capture and bag the fish, one to a bag, including enough water to cover the fish when the bag is laid on its side, normally 1/4 to 1/3 full. And place the bag and the fish into your cooler. Once the fish have been captured, empty the rest of the tank into your water container(s). If you have any decorations that sit on the substrate, remove them and bag or box for the move. If you have live plants, leave them in the tank and cover with newspaper, and sprinkle some water on the paper so the plants do not dry out. Also, remember, this is not a tank cleaning, and you do not want to, at this time, clean the substrate, you just want to remove the water. Cover the water container(s). You will need to keep the media in your filter damp, so you can usually just remove it from a filter that hangs from the tank and bag it in a plastic bag. If it is a canister filter, for the short move you can just leave water in the filter and move it in the locked and upright position. If it is an in the tank filter, just place it in the removed water that is being moved. Move the tank carefully. There will still be some water in it, plus the substrate, so it will be heavier than you expect. It should be kept level when moved because of this weight, and the shifting of the weight could weaken a seam, with rather disastrous results when the tank is refilled. Get everything into your vehicle, trailer, or what every you are using to move it, and drive to your new residence. At your new home, bring in the stand and place it where you have planned to have it, and make sure it is level. If not, level it or move it to your second choice location to see if it is more level. Once the stand is taken care of, move the tank into place, remove the newspaper, and refill that tank. Get the filter and heater running, and add your fish. This whole process will take several hours, which is why I suggest that you choose a day separate from moving day to do this. When I had to move 15 tanks, I did it over the course of a month. I'd get home from work, load up a tank, along with a number of other items to be moved out that were not needed at the current residence, and move the whole thing down to the new house, a few towns over, set up the tank, and drop off the other stuff. Feed the fish already there, while checking on them, go home and go to sleep. The next day, I'd move over a new carload of stuff and drop it off, check the fish, go home and watch some TV. My wife would come along every few days to put stuff away, because, you know, guys simply cannot be trusted to do that correctly. I did not lose a fish, but I did go a whole month without doing any water changes. Thankfully, my tanks would be considered, by nearly any measure to be anything but under stocked. \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Lisa Lawless Sent: Sunday, August 09, 2009 8:00 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] re; i'm getting my first home LOL, well at the moment we're not getting much past 18*. And I'm moving out of home, so my parents will still have this place. I figured it was best to do the move in as little time as possible, so there's not much fussing around.   Lisa

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 42618	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 8/9/2009
Subject: Re: Just a "financial thought"

Regional bank with a Visa debit card. \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Dora Smith Sent: Sunday, August 09, 2009 8:29 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Just a "financial thought" What company is that? Yours, Dora Smith Austin, TX tiggernut24@... ----- Original Message ----- From: "Steve Szabo" <steve@...> To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Sunday, August 09, 2009 2:55 AM Subject: [Bulk] RE: [AquaticLife] Just a "financial thought" I have the same $50 limit of liability on my debit card as is given to credit cards, and I can also get the special transaction numbers as well with it. \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Lenny V. aka GoldLenny Sent: Saturday, August 08, 2009 11:38 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Just a "financial thought" Most credit cards do this nowadays. The security problems lie more with debit cards and how they are tied directly to checking/savings accounts. So many folks use debit cards nowadays that it's a LOT more dangerous for a debit card user on the internet.. or any other use if they should lose their card and password. They are not protected by the same federal regulations that credit card users have. For example, if someone uses your credit card unlawfully, you are only legally liable for a limited amount of money... usually $50.00... but if someone gets your debit cart number, you have ZERO protection until they wipe out your checking/savings account completely. If you use a debit card for many purchases, then setting up the debit card through PayPal is the safer way to go. You could also set up the PayPal account where it's funded by your checking or savings account if you do not have a credit or debit card. I have a LOT of customers that pay me with PayPal and the only info I get on them is their email address so for new customers, they feel much safer sending me money this way.. especially new customers. I originally had my PayPal account tied to my checking account so that I could just use the PayPal MasterCard debit card for all of my purchases but I no longer have that and I do not leave as much money in my PayPal account any longer. I transfer it to my main checking account and then as needed, transfer it back to PayPal as needed. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of jett07002 Sent: Saturday, August 08, 2009 7:54 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Just a "financial thought" I read an answer that Lenny gave about the Penn Plax filter and buying it on line with Pay Pal not having to give your credit card info. It rang a bell and I thought I would share with whoever may be interested that if you have an account with Discover Card (and I am not pushing Discover: Others may do the same thing, but I am not aware of them.)....the Discover card has a process that you can use to buy on the internet. They give you a special one-time-use number. After you buy what you want that number will not be honored anymore. Saves you from giving out you credit card number, etc. and protects you from anyone trying to use your account. Do not know anything about Pay Pal so I can not comment on that system. joe t ------------------------------------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the home page. Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com to receive the digest, which includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com for the No E-Mail option where you will still be able to read messages on the group and post replies. Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com to receive individual e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links ------------------------------------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the home page. Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com to receive the digest, which includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com for the No E-Mail option where you will still be able to read messages on the group and post replies. Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com to receive individual e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links ------------------------------------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the home page. Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com to receive the digest, which includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com for the No E-Mail option where you will still be able to read messages on the group and post replies. Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com to receive individual e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 42619	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 8/9/2009
Subject: Re: Just a "financial thought"

Yeah, we have one for the business, but that is a necessity to have, so we need to eat the cost, as a cost of doing business, and it is paid in full each month, surely much to the chagrin of the bank and credit card company. $50 million is not enough. Then the money would need to be transferred under my terms, not yours. \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Lenny V. aka GoldLenny Sent: Sunday, August 09, 2009 9:21 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Just a "financial thought" Hey... can't blame a guy for trying. LOL Would it have helped if I said I was a Nigerian attorney and I was holding $50,000,000.00 for someone with the same name as you... blah, blah, blah? I got rid of all but one business credit card, a long time ago as well... after I got rid of my ex-wife and all her shopping *expenses*. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Steve Szabo Sent: Sunday, August 09, 2009 2:57 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Just a "financial thought" Lenny, I'd love to do that. However, I do not have a single credit card, nor have I ever held one. Too expensive for my tastes. \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Lenny V. aka GoldLenny Sent: Saturday, August 08, 2009 11:40 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Just a "financial thought" So does Amex.... \\Steve//, if you'd like me to test the security on your Platinum Amex, send me your account number and I'll let you know how it works. ;-) Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Steve Szabo Sent: Saturday, August 08, 2009 8:57 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Just a "financial thought" Visa has a similar plan, as does MasterCard. \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of jett07002 Sent: Saturday, August 08, 2009 8:54 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Just a "financial thought" I read an answer that Lenny gave about the Penn Plax filter and buying it on line with Pay Pal not having to give your credit card info. It rang a bell and I thought I would share with whoever may be interested that if you have an account with Discover Card (and I am not pushing Discover: Others may do the same thing, but I am not aware of them.)....the Discover card has a process that you can use to buy on the internet. They give you a special one-time-use number. After you buy what you want that number will not be honored anymore. Saves you from giving out you credit card number, etc. and protects you from anyone trying to use your account. Do not know anything about Pay Pal so I can not comment on that system. joe t

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 42620	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 8/9/2009
Subject: U-G-L-Y, you ain't got no alibi... (or A Face Only A Mother Could Lo

We've all seen the contests for the world's ugliest dog... usually won by the nearly hairless Chihuahua looking dog with snaggly teeth and a tongue that hangs out on one side... but while browsing through the July 2009 edition of TFH (Tropical Fish Hobbyist) magazine, in the Cichlidophiles section, this month about how Cichlids choose their mates, there was a picture of Amphilophus citrinellus, the Midas Cichlid, and all of the photos that I've seen in the past of this fish have been typical of a big Cichlid fish but the TFH photo of this fish must have had the gosh-danged ugliest looking Midas Cichlids ever... with a face only a mother could love. As I'm typing this, I'm also doing a Google Image search trying to find even a remotely similarly ugly-butt-faced photo of a Midas Cichlid and after previewing a couple of pages of images, I found the exact picture that TFH used in their article... http://kora.blox.pl/resource/amphilophus_citrinellus1280_1024.jpg Now tell me if those aren't some of the ugliest dang fish you've ever seen??? Here's a few other photos of "typical" Midas Cichlid images to show that the majority of these fish are not so danged butt-ugly... not necessarily pretty but not as ugly as the picture that TFH used. I wonder if this species might have a class-action defamation lawsuit against TFH??? LOL http://www.aqua-fish.net/show.php?h=midascichlid http://animal-world.com/encyclo/fresh/cichlid/MidasCichlid.php http://www.aquahobby.com/gallery/e_midasm.php Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month)

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 42621	From: bill 1433	Date: 8/9/2009
Subject: Re: re; I'm getting my first home

No Worries Lisa, But unless I missed a back post from you-----Is the water your own likewell-water or municipal supply? Bill --- On Sun, 8/9/09, Lisa Lawless <lisa_lawless2004@...> wrote: > From: Lisa Lawless <lisa_lawless2004@...> > Subject: [AquaticLife] re; I'm getting my first home > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Date: Sunday, August 9, 2009, 2:19 AM > > Ok, guys, lets be very clear on this. I CAN'T get a hold of > the water. I don't have any existing neighbours yet. It a > block of units that are ALL being built. there is no > residents, and no plumbing untill hand over at the end of > OCT. >   > I understand the idea that you're all suggesting. It's a > very good one, and appriciated.  > But it's not pysically possible lol. >   > Lisa > > >   >   >   > > >       > __________________________________________________________________________________ > Find local businesses and services in your area with > Yahoo!7 Local. > Get started: http://local.yahoo.com.au > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > ------------------------------------ > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when > replying, Thank You. > ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> > ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> > PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is > NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of > the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new > subject (was re: old subject)" <- > <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. > , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. > > If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of > unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by > clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the home page.  > > Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com > to receive the digest, which includes up to 25 posts at a > time in a single email > > Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com > for the No E-Mail option where you will still be able to > read messages on the group and post replies. > > Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com > to receive individual e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links > > >     mailto:AquaticLife-fullfeatured@yahoogroups.com > > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 42622	From: Donna Ransome	Date: 8/9/2009
Subject: Re: U-G-L-Y, you ain't got no alibi... (or A Face Only A Mother Coul

Definitely ugly. Just can't see the appeal of ANY hump-headed fish myself. _____ From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Lenny V. aka GoldLenny Sent: Sunday, August 09, 2009 11:59 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] U-G-L-Y, you ain't got no alibi... (or A Face Only A Mother Could Love) We've all seen the contests for the world's ugliest dog... usually won by the nearly hairless Chihuahua looking dog with snaggly teeth and a tongue that hangs out on one side... but while browsing through the July 2009 edition of TFH (Tropical Fish Hobbyist) magazine, in the Cichlidophiles section, this month about how Cichlids choose their mates, there was a picture of Amphilophus citrinellus, the Midas Cichlid, and all of the photos that I've seen in the past of this fish have been typical of a big Cichlid fish but the TFH photo of this fish must have had the gosh-danged ugliest looking Midas Cichlids ever... with a face only a mother could love. As I'm typing this, I'm also doing a Google Image search trying to find even a remotely similarly ugly-butt-faced photo of a Midas Cichlid and after previewing a couple of pages of images, I found the exact picture that TFH used in their article... http://kora. <http://kora.blox.pl/resource/amphilophus_citrinellus1280_1024.jpg> blox.pl/resource/amphilophus_citrinellus1280_1024.jpg Now tell me if those aren't some of the ugliest dang fish you've ever seen??? Here's a few other photos of "typical" Midas Cichlid images to show that the majority of these fish are not so danged butt-ugly... not necessarily pretty but not as ugly as the picture that TFH used. I wonder if this species might have a class-action defamation lawsuit against TFH??? LOL http://www.aqua- <http://www.aqua-fish.net/show.php?h=midascichlid> fish.net/show.php?h=midascichlid http://animal- <http://animal-world.com/encyclo/fresh/cichlid/MidasCichlid.php> world.com/encyclo/fresh/cichlid/MidasCichlid.php http://www.aquahobb <http://www.aquahobby.com/gallery/e_midasm.php> y.com/gallery/e_midasm.php Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 42623	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 8/9/2009
Subject: Re: U-G-L-Y, you ain't got no alibi... (or A Face Only A Mother Coul

The first picture looks like they have a terrible deformation and their head hurts ;) LOL. Why would a breeder go to those lengths? Amber Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > > > We've all seen the contests for the world's ugliest dog... usually won by > the nearly hairless Chihuahua looking dog with snaggly teeth and a tongue > that hangs out on one side... but while browsing through the July 2009 > edition of TFH (Tropical Fish Hobbyist) magazine, in the Cichlidophiles > section, this month about how Cichlids choose their mates, there was a > picture of Amphilophus citrinellus, the Midas Cichlid, and all of the > photos > that I've seen in the past of this fish have been typical of a big Cichlid > fish but the TFH photo of this fish must have had the gosh-danged ugliest > looking Midas Cichlids ever... with a face only a mother could love. > As I'm > typing this, I'm also doing a Google Image search trying to find even a > remotely similarly ugly-butt-faced photo of a Midas Cichlid and after > previewing a couple of pages of images, I found the exact picture that TFH > used in their article... > > http://kora.blox.pl/resource/amphilophus_citrinellus1280_1024.jpg > <http://kora.blox.pl/resource/amphilophus_citrinellus1280_1024.jpg> > > Now tell me if those aren't some of the ugliest dang fish you've ever > seen??? > > Here's a few other photos of "typical" Midas Cichlid images to show > that the > majority of these fish are not so danged butt-ugly... not necessarily > pretty but not as ugly as the picture that TFH used. I wonder if this > species might have a class-action defamation lawsuit against TFH??? LOL > > http://www.aqua-fish.net/show.php?h=midascichlid > <http://www.aqua-fish.net/show.php?h=midascichlid> > > http://animal-world.com/encyclo/fresh/cichlid/MidasCichlid.php > <http://animal-world.com/encyclo/fresh/cichlid/MidasCichlid.php> > > http://www.aquahobby.com/gallery/e_midasm.php > <http://www.aquahobby.com/gallery/e_midasm.php> > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right > side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 42624	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 8/9/2009
Subject: Re: U-G-L-Y, you ain't got no alibi... (or A Face Only A Mother Coul

Well the "hump head" is a common and natural trait on male cichlids... usually with the larger species as the males mature, but it's usually not so LARGE and pronounced as it shown in the picture of the UGLY ones... usually more of a just a hump, not that bulging monstrosity. I don't know if the ones pictured in TFH and the online photo that I found were selectively bred to have those monstrosity of humps or if they were natural but based on the rest of the ugly traits, like the big fat lips too, I would suspect selective inbreeding by man. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Amber Berglund Sent: Sunday, August 09, 2009 12:25 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] U-G-L-Y, you ain't got no alibi... (or A Face Only A Mother Could Love) The first picture looks like they have a terrible deformation and their head hurts ;) LOL. Why would a breeder go to those lengths? Amber Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > > > We've all seen the contests for the world's ugliest dog... usually won > by the nearly hairless Chihuahua looking dog with snaggly teeth and a > tongue that hangs out on one side... but while browsing through the > July 2009 edition of TFH (Tropical Fish Hobbyist) magazine, in the > Cichlidophiles section, this month about how Cichlids choose their > mates, there was a picture of Amphilophus citrinellus, the Midas > Cichlid, and all of the photos that I've seen in the past of this fish > have been typical of a big Cichlid fish but the TFH photo of this fish > must have had the gosh-danged ugliest looking Midas Cichlids ever... > with a face only a mother could love. > As I'm > typing this, I'm also doing a Google Image search trying to find even > a remotely similarly ugly-butt-faced photo of a Midas Cichlid and > after previewing a couple of pages of images, I found the exact > picture that TFH used in their article... > > http://kora.blox.pl/resource/amphilophus_citrinellus1280_1024.jpg > <http://kora.blox.pl/resource/amphilophus_citrinellus1280_1024.jpg> > > Now tell me if those aren't some of the ugliest dang fish you've ever > seen??? > > Here's a few other photos of "typical" Midas Cichlid images to show > that the majority of these fish are not so danged butt-ugly... not > necessarily pretty but not as ugly as the picture that TFH used. I > wonder if this species might have a class-action defamation lawsuit > against TFH??? LOL > > http://www.aqua-fish.net/show.php?h=midascichlid > <http://www.aqua-fish.net/show.php?h=midascichlid> > > http://animal-world.com/encyclo/fresh/cichlid/MidasCichlid.php > <http://animal-world.com/encyclo/fresh/cichlid/MidasCichlid.php> > > http://www.aquahobby.com/gallery/e_midasm.php > <http://www.aquahobby.com/gallery/e_midasm.php> > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> (Links to any articles referenced in > above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels > and also under Archives by Year, Month)

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 42625	From: Courtland Jacob	Date: 8/9/2009
Subject: stocking advice

I have a 55 Gallon African Cichlid tank lots of the red/orange lava rock stcked for hiding i currently have 2 Haplochromis sp.44 "Red Tail" , male and female pair 1 Steveni Taiwan 1 Demasoni 1 Yellow Lab 1 Red buscheri (i think that is what it is called, it's grey with orange fins) 1 swallow tail 1 benga peacock and one more little fish i have no idea what it is called, small mostly grey, black and yellow dorsal, black ventril, black under eye and two black stripes behind gill plate if anyone can identify the two I am unsure of that would be great, also, do these cihclids belong together? they have done well so far, although the Haplochromis sp.44 "Red Tail" is one of the smallest he is deffinately the dominant one. I just want to make sure that I don't have fish together that should never be together

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 42626	From: Menagerie_Manager	Date: 8/9/2009
Subject: Re: U-G-L-Y, you ain't got no alibi... (or A Face Only A Mother Coul

I'm torn between saying, "Thank you. Thank you very much," and, "Looooceee! You've got some s'plainin' to doo!" DebR and the Three Goldfish (CB, Lucille, and Raven) ----- Original Message ----- From: "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@...> We've all seen the contests for the world's ugliest dog... usually won by the nearly hairless Chihuahua looking dog with snaggly teeth and a tongue that hangs out on one side... but while browsing through the July 2009 edition of TFH (Tropical Fish Hobbyist) magazine, in the Cichlidophiles section, this month about how Cichlids choose their mates, there was a picture of Amphilophus citrinellus, the Midas Cichlid, and all of the photos that I've seen in the past of this fish have been typical of a big Cichlid fish but the TFH photo of this fish must have had the gosh-danged ugliest looking Midas Cichlids ever... with a face only a mother could love. As I'm typing this, I'm also doing a Google Image search trying to find even a remotely similarly ugly-butt-faced photo of a Midas Cichlid and after previewing a couple of pages of images, I found the exact picture that TFH used in their article... http://kora.blox.pl/resource/amphilophus_citrinellus1280_1024.jpg Now tell me if those aren't some of the ugliest dang fish you've ever seen??? Here's a few other photos of "typical" Midas Cichlid images to show that the majority of these fish are not so danged butt-ugly... not necessarily pretty but not as ugly as the picture that TFH used. I wonder if this species might have a class-action defamation lawsuit against TFH??? LOL http://www.aqua-fish.net/show.php?h=midascichlid http://animal-world.com/encyclo/fresh/cichlid/MidasCichlid.php http://www.aquahobby.com/gallery/e_midasm.php Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month)

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 42627	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 8/9/2009
Subject: Re Re: Bloated Guppy (he died last night)

OK. You now need to do a Tap Water Baseline test so we will know how far off your tank water is from your tap water. See my blog article http://goldlenny.blogspot.com/2007/05/find-your-tap-source-water-baseline.ht ml for details and instructions. Give us the first test readings now so we will know what your water is like right out the tap and then post all three test results after the 48 hours so we can all see what changed during the 48 hour baseline testing. I would like you to re-test the pH, ammonia and nitrite (NO2-)(note the minus sign behind the 2 which is the proper chemical symbol for nitrite) just to make sure of the test results as your pH would be considered in the very low range and ammonia and nitrite should always be 0.0ppm in a fully "cycled" (read about the nitrogen cycle on my A to Z page) tank. This likely happened due to your over-cleaning of the filter media. Check the ammonia test results under the best lighting you can find and try to determine a more accurate result as you have quite a large range listed below. I realize that the Tetratest card has one color at 0.25 and the next color at 1.5ppm but try to let us know if it's right in the middle or closer to one or the other. Since it has been over a week since you over-cleaned the filtration, it looks like you are in for a full blown re-cycling of the tank. Fortunately, while your ammonia level is elevated, your pH is LOW so that makes the ammonia non-toxic but that LOW pH can make the nitrite much more toxic so please add a teaspoon of salt to your 10G tank, if you are not already adding salt to their water. Usually only a pinch of salt per 10G is needed but I'm worried about your really LOW pH. Please note that while you pH seems LOW, there are many fish that prefer that type of water, just not the livebearers that you mostly have right now. I realize you bought the Tetratest-Laborette Master Test Kit. Considering all that is going on with your tank and the unknowns about your tap water, you will also need to buy a separate nitrate test kit, unless your remaining test strips have a nitrate test on them. If they do, then that will suffice for now. If they don't, API makes a separate nitrate test kit for a few dollars.... less than $5.00. I think Walmart.com sells it also. That's the downside of both of those Master Test Kits... the API includes the nitrate test but not the GH and KH tests and the T-L kit includes the GH and KH but not the nitrate test. It seems they both could come out with a complete kit for a few dollars more so I'm not sure why they don't do this for their customers. In the interim, start doing daily testing of the ammonia and nitrite and post your results. Also do a daily 10% PWC's or 25% PWC's every other day as I suspect you have elevated nitrate levels as well which could be the cause of your really low pH... unless the pH is naturally that low in your area. Re-read my earlier replies, BELOW, for more things that you need to do. I realize a lot of this is overwhelming right now but I consider fishkeeping like riding a bike. Once you learn the right way, you wonder why it was ever difficult in the first place. Many of the WRONG things that some folks learn at first make things so much more difficult for them to learn the RIGHT way. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: Catherine [mailto:catrestivo@...] Sent: Sunday, August 09, 2009 1:13 PM To: GoldLenny@... Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re Re: Bloated Guppy (he died last night) Hi Lenny! So I got my master test kit from WalMart, and did a PWC today, cleaned the filter properly by rinsing in the tank water I took out, then tested the water. Here are the results: GH = 10 (took 10 drops to change color) KH = 1 pH = 5.0 NO2 = <0.3 Ammonia = 0.25-1.5 (color seemed to fall bet these two) All the fish seem fine since the other guppy died. CURRENT DILEMMA: I now have 4 teeny fry from my platy (I have 2 girls but the one must have been prego when I bought her). She's been big for a long time and I kept a lookout for babies & was hoping maybe they were being eaten, but discovered these 4 a couple days ago. She's less bloated but still big - how many fry can they have. Dear lord... :( So I'll let them get a little bigger then will hope that PerSmart will take them as my 10 gal certainly cannot hold that many. I also believe one of my GloFish is prego too. No sign of those yet but I think I will return her for a male. Thanks for all your help and advice! Catherine Sent from my iPhone On Aug 4, 2009, at 12:04 PM, "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@...> wrote: Awww.. sorry to hear about your guppy. I wish we could have figured out what was wrong. Are any of the other fish showing any symptoms? Don't overly worry if they aren't. Quite often, a single fish will succumb to a *bug* that the other fish are able to resist, just like us humans, where one person in the home/office might get sick but that does not mean we all will. How old was this male guppy... I'm guessing still pretty young since you've only had the tank since February 2009 but I wanted to check? Even if not age related, some fish simply have weaker immune systems than other fish and will get sick easier when stressed (and see below about your filter cleaning which could have caused the stress issue). First thing you need to do is QUIT using all of the various bottled chemicals. The only thing you should be using is a simple dechlor product that also treats for heavy metals. 99% of fish keepers DO NOT need any of the stress-this or slime-that or pH changing chemicals... or the Cycle or Waste Control products either. They simply are not needed and basically will turn your tank into a chemical waste dump instead of a *freshwater* tank. Just keep up with your weekly tank maintenance, gravel vacuuming, 25% PWC's and PROPER filter cleaning and maintenance. I mention PROPER filter cleaning and maintenance as I see that you've fallen for the replace-the-filter-cartridge scam that filter companies put in their instructions. This is actually BAD for your tank if not done properly. Go to my blog and read my LONG article on "Filter Maintenance And Cleaning" so you do not repeat your past mistakes. There's a good chance that when you completely cleaned your filter two weeks ago, this caused a Cycling Issue in your tank and the product, Cycle, does not solve this issue. Do you have a master test kit for checking ammonia, nitrite, nitrate, pH, GH and KH? If not, quit buying all the bottled chemical crap and spend $15-$17 on a decent Master Test Kit. Either the API or Tetra-Laborette master test kits can be bought online at Walmart.com for that price range.. with free shipping to your local store. This test kit will last you at least a year and it's the best investment you can make for your fish, instead of all the bottled crap that some stores push on people. Once you get a test kit, we can test your tank but also do a Tap Water Baseline test, which is very important to know when first starting out. While at my blog, also read my article "Find Your Tap Water Baseline" so you will understand this process when you get your test kit. Are you planning on a larger fish tank? If not, your 10G tank is on the small side for the types of fish you are keeping. While at my blog, also check out the article, "10 Gallon Tank Stocking Suggestions". As you will see, livebearers like guppies and platys are not the best choices unless you go with all males, otherwise they can easily overwhelm a tank with their breeding. The GloFish (Zebra Danios) should be kept in schools of at least six but with your other fish, you do not have the room for six of them and six of them would be overcrowded in a 10G tank anyhow since they are such fast swimmers and a 10G tank doesn't really give them room to swim around as a school. If you bought your fish at a LFS (Local Fish Store), ask them if they will take the two GloFish back for store credit. If you bought them at a big box pet store, they probably won't take them back but you can still ask since they should not have sold you the fish in the first place. Another thing, while at my blog, go to my page "A to Z of Fish Keeping" and take one or both of the free online tutorials, which will walk you through a lot of what I've said above and in my articles and keep you from making some of the most common mistakes in the future. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> ] On Behalf Of cat.rose Sent: Tuesday, August 04, 2009 10:16 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> Subject: [AquaticLife] Re Re: Bloated Guppy (he died last night) Thank you Lenny! Well, my little guppy died last night... He was alive when I fed them, and then later I couldn't find him, but he was laying on the bottom in the back. I have been giving them all peas like you suggested. Hopefully this won't happen to any of the other fish. Here are answers to the help questionnaire: Tank size: 10 gal Tank inhabitants (number and type of fish or other aquatic life): 3 (now 2) guppies, 3 platy (1 is a 1/2 in baby that was recently discovered!), 2 GloFish Water change amount and when the last one was done: 25% PWC done weekly (last one was Wed 7/29) Filter maintenance and what exactly did you do: I follow the instructions on the box for replacing the 3 different filter mediums. About 2 weeks ago I took filter apart and cleaned parts thoroughly. How long the tank has been set up: February 2009 Water or filter additives or pH adjusters used: Cycle, Stress Coat (weekly). Used pH increase but stopped because it didn't seem to be working. Recent (within 2 weeks) changes or additions to the tank: Nutrifin Waste Control. I've used this twice which is supposed to help with pH, etc (not a Buffer, they were out of that product). Full description of the problem you have been having, including any odd behavior of the inhabitants or appearance of the tank or inhabitants. some common examples are: Fish behavior- breathing rapidly hanging at surface Fish appearance- bloated stomach Tank appearance- clear --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> , "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@...> wrote: > > What else do you have in the tank that he is in? > > Try feeding him green pea "meat" which is a natural laxative to most fish. I use frozen green peas but unsalted from a can will also work. Of course fresh work as well. Take a single pea and pinch the pea so the "meat" pops out of the skin, discard the skin and then mash up the two halves a little and feed a little to the guppy... as much as he will eat. Your other fish will also like this and it's OK to feed them pea "meat" as well.. even if they are not bloated. > > Now.. the bloating could be from more than simple constipation but lets eliminate that possibility first. He could be staying at the top of the tank due to swim bladder issues caused by the constipation and the gulping could just be from the added stress from not being able to control his buoyancy. Of course, all of these issues could also be related to internal bacterial or parasitic issues. > > Can you at least move him to a separate container of any type? I've used clear Sterilite storage boxes for this purpose. When not being used for a Q-tank or H-tank, you can store your fish stuff in the box. > > While it's certainly best to have a fully set up H-tank, with a cycled filter, if none is available then a simple container that holds enough water for the size fish... a few gallons in the case of a single guppy... and an air stone to help circulate the water will at least give you an easier way to isolate and observe the guppy to see if he is pooping and what the poop looks like. Fish poop observation is a very good first step in trying to diagnose fish problems. > > Go to my blog and see my most recent blog which is a Sick Fish Questionnaire and give us as much info as possible and we can give more help. > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles > referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically > under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) > > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> ] > On Behalf Of cat.rose > Sent: Sunday, August 02, 2009 9:42 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Subject: [AquaticLife] Bloated Guppy > > My male guppy has been bloated for a couple days, and today he's stayed at the top of the tank gulping air constantly. He does not have any raised scales, and he's been eating. I don't have any other tank/equipment to move him to. > > Help please! > Catherine

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 42628	From: Courtland Jacob	Date: 8/9/2009
Subject: Re: stocking advice

found out that the little one is a Placidochromis Electra "Likoma" --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Courtland Jacob" <courtland_jacob@...> wrote: > > I have a 55 Gallon African Cichlid tank lots of the red/orange lava rock stcked for hiding > > i currently have > 2 Haplochromis sp.44 "Red Tail" , male and female pair > 1 Steveni Taiwan > 1 Demasoni > 1 Yellow Lab > 1 Red buscheri (i think that is what it is called, it's grey with orange fins) > 1 swallow tail > 1 benga peacock > and one more little fish i have no idea what it is called, small mostly grey, black and yellow dorsal, black ventril, black under eye and two black stripes behind gill plate > > if anyone can identify the two I am unsure of that would be great, also, do these cihclids belong together? they have done well so far, although the Haplochromis sp.44 "Red Tail" is one of the smallest he is deffinately the dominant one. I just want to make sure that I don't have fish together that should never be together >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 42629	From: Deenerz@aol.com	Date: 8/9/2009
Subject: Re: U-G-L-Y, you ain't got no alibi... (or A Face Only A Mother Coul

Even a very mature angelfish will develop a Nuchal hump. Not quite as pronounced as the Midas in Lenny's links. We caught some of the dark variety Midas at a Florida fish farm in their holding ponds. Not bad looking in that form. -Mike -----Original Message----- From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@...> To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Sun, Aug 9, 2009 1:20 pm Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] U-G-L-Y, you ain't got no alibi... (or A Face Only A Mother Could Love) Well the "hump head" is a common and natural trait on male cichlids... usually with the larger species as the males mature, but it's usually not so LARGE and pronounced as it shown in the picture of the UGLY ones... usually more of a just a hump, not that bulging monstrosity. I don't know if the ones pictured in TFH and the online photo that I found were selectively bred to have those monstrosity of humps or if they were natural but based on the rest of the ugly traits, like the big fat lips too, I would suspect selective inbreeding by man. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Amber Berglund Sent: Sunday, August 09, 2009 12:25 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] U-G-L-Y, you ain't got no alibi... (or A Face Only20A Mother Could Love) The first picture looks like they have a terrible deformation and their head hurts ;) LOL. Why would a breeder go to those lengths? Amber Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > > > We've all seen the contests for the world's ugliest dog... usually won > by the nearly hairless Chihuahua looking dog with snaggly teeth and a > tongue that hangs out on one side... but while browsing through the > July 2009 edition of TFH (Tropical Fish Hobbyist) magazine, in the > Cichlidophiles section, this month about how Cichlids choose their > mates, there was a picture of Amphilophus citrinellus, the Midas > Cichlid, and all of the photos that I've seen in the past of this fish > have been typical of a big Cichlid fish but the TFH photo of this fish > must have had the gosh-danged ugliest looking Midas Cichlids ever... > with a face only a mother could love. > As I'm > typing this, I'm also doing a Google Image search trying to find even > a remotely similarly ugly-butt-faced photo of a Midas Cichlid and > after previewing a couple of pages of images, I found the exact > picture that TFH used in their article... > > http://kora.blox.pl/resource/amphilophus_citrinellus1280_1024.jpg > <http://kora.blox.pl/resource/amphilophus_citrinellus1280_1024.jpg> > > Now tell me if those aren't some of the ugliest dang fish you've ever > seen??? > > Here's a few other photos of "typical" Midas Cichlid images to show > that the majority of these fish are not so danged butt-ugly... not > necessarily pretty but not as ugly as the picture that TFH used. I > wonder if this species might have a class-action defamation lawsuit > against TFH??? LOL > > http://www.aqua-fish.net/show.php?h=midascichlid > <http://www.aqua-fish.net/show.php?h=midascichlid> > > http://animal-world.com/encyclo/fresh/cichlid/MidasCichlid.php > <http://animal-world.com/encyclo/fresh/cichlid/MidasCichlid.php> > > http://www.aquahobby.com/gallery/e_midasm.php > <http://www.aquahobby.com/gallery/e_midasm.php> > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> (Links to any articles referenced in > above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels > and also under Archives by Year, Month) [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 42630	From: Donna Ransome	Date: 8/9/2009
Subject: Re: stocking advice

Where to start? I'd say no, this is not an ideal mix for a 55G tank. How long have you had them together in this tank? If you want all male, you might be able to create a workable all male tank even though usually that works better when you are starting with a 75G. For all male, you want one of each species, none that look alike. If you want a mix of males and females, then you want to choose 3 compatible species and have a single male and multiple females, as most of the fish you have in the tank now are harem breeders. What is your goal? If you post a pic of the unknown maybe someone can ID it.what was it sold to you as? Could it be a hybrid? _____ From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Courtland Jacob Sent: Sunday, August 09, 2009 3:38 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] stocking advice I have a 55 Gallon African Cichlid tank lots of the red/orange lava rock stcked for hiding i currently have 2 Haplochromis sp.44 "Red Tail" , male and female pair 1 Steveni Taiwan 1 Demasoni 1 Yellow Lab 1 Red buscheri (i think that is what it is called, it's grey with orange fins) 1 swallow tail 1 benga peacock and one more little fish i have no idea what it is called, small mostly grey, black and yellow dorsal, black ventril, black under eye and two black stripes behind gill plate if anyone can identify the two I am unsure of that would be great, also, do these cihclids belong together? they have done well so far, although the Haplochromis sp.44 "Red Tail" is one of the smallest he is deffinately the dominant one. I just want to make sure that I don't have fish together that should never be together [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 42631	From: Courtland Jacob	Date: 8/9/2009
Subject: Re: stocking advice

for the most part i have had them all together since april --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, Donna Ransome <djransome@...> wrote: > > Where to start? I'd say no, this is not an ideal mix for a 55G tank. How > long have you had them together in this tank? > > > > If you want all male, you might be able to create a workable all male tank > even though usually that works better when you are starting with a 75G. For > all male, you want one of each species, none that look alike. > > > > If you want a mix of males and females, then you want to choose 3 compatible > species and have a single male and multiple females, as most of the fish you > have in the tank now are harem breeders. > > > > What is your goal? > > > > If you post a pic of the unknown maybe someone can ID it.what was it sold to > you as? Could it be a hybrid? > > > > _____ > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On > Behalf Of Courtland Jacob > Sent: Sunday, August 09, 2009 3:38 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Subject: [AquaticLife] stocking advice > > > > > > I have a 55 Gallon African Cichlid tank lots of the red/orange lava rock > stcked for hiding > > i currently have > 2 Haplochromis sp.44 "Red Tail" , male and female pair > 1 Steveni Taiwan > 1 Demasoni > 1 Yellow Lab > 1 Red buscheri (i think that is what it is called, it's grey with orange > fins) > 1 swallow tail > 1 benga peacock > and one more little fish i have no idea what it is called, small mostly > grey, black and yellow dorsal, black ventril, black under eye and two black > stripes behind gill plate > > if anyone can identify the two I am unsure of that would be great, also, do > these cihclids belong together? they have done well so far, although the > Haplochromis sp.44 "Red Tail" is one of the smallest he is deffinately the > dominant one. I just want to make sure that I don't have fish together that > should never be together > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 42632	From: Dora Smith	Date: 8/9/2009
Subject: Re: [Bulk] RE: [AquaticLife] Just a "financial thought"

I have a Visa debit card with my Bank of America checking account. Haven't heard of anything like that but maybe I should check into it. Yours, Dora Smith Austin, TX tiggernut24@... ----- Original Message ----- From: "Steve Szabo" <steve@...> To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Sunday, August 09, 2009 2:56 AM Subject: [Bulk] RE: [AquaticLife] Just a "financial thought" Lenny, I'd love to do that. However, I do not have a single credit card, nor have I ever held one. Too expensive for my tastes. \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Lenny V. aka GoldLenny Sent: Saturday, August 08, 2009 11:40 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Just a "financial thought" So does Amex.... \\Steve//, if you'd like me to test the security on your Platinum Amex, send me your account number and I'll let you know how it works. ;-) Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Steve Szabo Sent: Saturday, August 08, 2009 8:57 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Just a "financial thought" Visa has a similar plan, as does MasterCard. \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of jett07002 Sent: Saturday, August 08, 2009 8:54 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Just a "financial thought" I read an answer that Lenny gave about the Penn Plax filter and buying it on line with Pay Pal not having to give your credit card info. It rang a bell and I thought I would share with whoever may be interested that if you have an account with Discover Card (and I am not pushing Discover: Others may do the same thing, but I am not aware of them.)....the Discover card has a process that you can use to buy on the internet. They give you a special one-time-use number. After you buy what you want that number will not be honored anymore. Saves you from giving out you credit card number, etc. and protects you from anyone trying to use your account. Do not know anything about Pay Pal so I can not comment on that system. joe t ------------------------------------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the home page. Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com to receive the digest, which includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com for the No E-Mail option where you will still be able to read messages on the group and post replies. Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com to receive individual e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 42633	From: Donna Ransome	Date: 8/9/2009
Subject: Re: stocking advice

These are the ones I had to look up. Protomelas sp. "Steveni Taiwan" hap 7” too big for your tank Haplochromis sp. "Thick Skin" a.k.a. sp. 44 and sp. Red Tail from Lake Victoria, 5” might be OK Placidochromis electra hap might be OK Neolamprologus buescheri from Lake Tanganyika, highly aggressive, not a good fit You have 3 lakes and fish with incompatible temperaments in the tank. If you want to try an all male tank I’d lose the female sp. 44, the Taiwan, the Demasoni and the Buescheri. That gives you 5 males. I’d add 3-5 more but look for a peaceful temperament. I’d stick to peacocks for the rest. One of each species, make sure they look nothing alike. _____ From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Courtland Jacob Sent: Sunday, August 09, 2009 3:38 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] stocking advice I have a 55 Gallon African Cichlid tank lots of the red/orange lava rock stcked for hiding i currently have 2 Haplochromis sp.44 "Red Tail" , male and female pair 1 Steveni Taiwan 1 Demasoni 1 Yellow Lab 1 Red buscheri (i think that is what it is called, it's grey with orange fins) 1 swallow tail 1 benga peacock and one more little fish i have no idea what it is called, small mostly grey, black and yellow dorsal, black ventril, black under eye and two black stripes behind gill plate if anyone can identify the two I am unsure of that would be great, also, do these cihclids belong together? they have done well so far, although the Haplochromis sp.44 "Red Tail" is one of the smallest he is deffinately the dominant one. I just want to make sure that I don't have fish together that should never be together [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 42634	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 8/9/2009
Subject: Re: [Bulk] RE: [AquaticLife] Just a "financial thought"

I t could just be a bank thing. \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Dora Smith Sent: Sunday, August 09, 2009 6:20 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [Bulk] RE: [AquaticLife] Just a "financial thought" I have a Visa debit card with my Bank of America checking account. Haven't heard of anything like that but maybe I should check into it. Yours, Dora Smith Austin, TX tiggernut24@... ----- Original Message ----- From: "Steve Szabo" <steve@...> To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Sunday, August 09, 2009 2:56 AM Subject: [Bulk] RE: [AquaticLife] Just a "financial thought" Lenny, I'd love to do that. However, I do not have a single credit card, nor have I ever held one. Too expensive for my tastes. \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Lenny V. aka GoldLenny Sent: Saturday, August 08, 2009 11:40 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Just a "financial thought" So does Amex.... \\Steve//, if you'd like me to test the security on your Platinum Amex, send me your account number and I'll let you know how it works. ;-) Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Steve Szabo Sent: Saturday, August 08, 2009 8:57 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Just a "financial thought" Visa has a similar plan, as does MasterCard. \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of jett07002 Sent: Saturday, August 08, 2009 8:54 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Just a "financial thought" I read an answer that Lenny gave about the Penn Plax filter and buying it on line with Pay Pal not having to give your credit card info. It rang a bell and I thought I would share with whoever may be interested that if you have an account with Discover Card (and I am not pushing Discover: Others may do the same thing, but I am not aware of them.)....the Discover card has a process that you can use to buy on the internet. They give you a special one-time-use number. After you buy what you want that number will not be honored anymore. Saves you from giving out you credit card number, etc. and protects you from anyone trying to use your account. Do not know anything about Pay Pal so I can not comment on that system. joe t ------------------------------------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the home page. Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com to receive the digest, which includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com for the No E-Mail option where you will still be able to read messages on the group and post replies. Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com to receive individual e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links ------------------------------------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the home page. Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com to receive the digest, which includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com for the No E-Mail option where you will still be able to read messages on the group and post replies. Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com to receive individual e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 42635	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 8/9/2009
Subject: New Version Released

This is a program designed to keep track of your aquarium. It appears to be aimed at the marine aquarist, but the FW enthusiast may also find the program useful. Helps you track water chemistry, and has graphing capabilities, You can create profiles of your fish, plants, inverts, and corals. The program will calculate the volume of your aquarium, as well as the weight. Allows you to keep track of your expenses (might want to hide this from your spouse--"What's this Rara fishiae $200 expense?" may not be a question you would want to exactly answer). It can also help you track your electrical usage and cost. http://0sec.org/software/4407-sea-apple-aquarium-lab-v433.html http://tinyurl.com/m7an2t \\Steve//

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 42636	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 8/9/2009
Subject: Re: New Version Released

\\Steve//, I'm guessing this is a known safe site for downloads? I've never heard of it before. I did a Google on the software and see it for sale on it's main site for $24.95 with only a 30 day free trial. http://www.aquariumlab.com/ Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Steve Szabo Sent: Sunday, August 09, 2009 8:39 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] New Version Released This is a program designed to keep track of your aquarium. It appears to be aimed at the marine aquarist, but the FW enthusiast may also find the program useful. Helps you track water chemistry, and has graphing capabilities, You can create profiles of your fish, plants, inverts, and corals. The program will calculate the volume of your aquarium, as well as the weight. Allows you to keep track of your expenses (might want to hide this from your spouse--"What's this Rara fishiae $200 expense?" may not be a question you would want to exactly answer). It can also help you track your electrical usage and cost. http://0sec.org/software/4407-sea-apple-aquarium-lab-v433.html http://tinyurl.com/m7an2t \\Steve//

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 42637	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 8/9/2009
Subject: Re: New Version Released

McAfee green flags the site. While not 100% accurate, it is a good indicator. I received no alerts when I went to the site. NoScript shows nothing in the scripts run that would indicate redirection or intrusion of a site that may not be kosher. My Google Alerts showed that site and another download site I am not familiar with as places where the software is available. \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Lenny V. aka GoldLenny Sent: Sunday, August 09, 2009 10:11 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] New Version Released \\Steve//, I'm guessing this is a known safe site for downloads? I've never heard of it before. I did a Google on the software and see it for sale on it's main site for $24.95 with only a 30 day free trial. http://www.aquariumlab.com/ Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Steve Szabo Sent: Sunday, August 09, 2009 8:39 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] New Version Released This is a program designed to keep track of your aquarium. It appears to be aimed at the marine aquarist, but the FW enthusiast may also find the program useful. Helps you track water chemistry, and has graphing capabilities, You can create profiles of your fish, plants, inverts, and corals. The program will calculate the volume of your aquarium, as well as the weight. Allows you to keep track of your expenses (might want to hide this from your spouse--"What's this Rara fishiae $200 expense?" may not be a question you would want to exactly answer). It can also help you track your electrical usage and cost. http://0sec.org/software/4407-sea-apple-aquarium-lab-v433.html http://tinyurl.com/m7an2t \\Steve// ------------------------------------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the home page. Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com to receive the digest, which includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com for the No E-Mail option where you will still be able to read messages on the group and post replies. Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com to receive individual e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 42638	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 8/9/2009
Subject: Re: New Version Released

To All: Has anyone else out there downloaded and tested this yet? I guess if nobody else has, I'll be the guinea pig since my computer is relatively secure and I'll run a battery of security sweeps on the program before running it. I'll let y'all know. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Steve Szabo Sent: Sunday, August 09, 2009 9:18 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] New Version Released McAfee green flags the site. While not 100% accurate, it is a good indicator. I received no alerts when I went to the site. NoScript shows nothing in the scripts run that would indicate redirection or intrusion of a site that may not be kosher. My Google Alerts showed that site and another download site I am not familiar with as places where the software is available. \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Lenny V. aka GoldLenny Sent: Sunday, August 09, 2009 10:11 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] New Version Released \\Steve//, I'm guessing this is a known safe site for downloads? I've never heard of it before. I did a Google on the software and see it for sale on it's main site for $24.95 with only a 30 day free trial. http://www.aquariumlab.com/ Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Steve Szabo Sent: Sunday, August 09, 2009 8:39 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] New Version Released This is a program designed to keep track of your aquarium. It appears to be aimed at the marine aquarist, but the FW enthusiast may also find the program useful. Helps you track water chemistry, and has graphing capabilities, You can create profiles of your fish, plants, inverts, and corals. The program will calculate the volume of your aquarium, as well as the weight. Allows you to keep track of your expenses (might want to hide this from your spouse--"What's this Rara fishiae $200 expense?" may not be a question you would want to exactly answer). It can also help you track your electrical usage and cost. http://0sec.org/software/4407-sea-apple-aquarium-lab-v433.html http://tinyurl.com/m7an2t \\Steve//

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 42639	From: Lisa Lawless	Date: 8/9/2009
Subject: re; I'm getting my first home

My parents are not moving, no. The distance is about 20mins from where I currently live   Lisa   __________________________________________________________________________________ Find local businesses and services in your area with Yahoo!7 Local. Get started: http://local.yahoo.com.au [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 42640	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 8/10/2009
Subject: Re: re; I'm getting my first home

I'm not sure if I ever said it in my first reply since the questions were all about the fish... but CONGRATULATIONS on buying your first home! Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Lisa Lawless Sent: Sunday, August 09, 2009 10:26 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] re; I'm getting my first home My parents are not moving, no. The distance is about 20mins from where I currently live   Lisa

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 42641	From: Lisa	Date: 8/10/2009
Subject: Re: re; I'm getting my first home

Should have also mentioned... In my contract of sale, in the section where it tells you what the standard inclusions are, it says nothing about the piping for the plumbing. And whether or not it's pvc or copper, except that I have chrome faucets. Although I suspect the faucet has nothing to do with the water's PH or calcium levels. And as mentioned, more to do with the pipes. For self serving purposes, I wanted to invest in a benchtop water purifier anyway. Would this also be of any benefit come pwc time? With the addition of water conditioners of course Lisa > My parents are not moving, no. The distance is about 20mins from where I currently live >   > Lisa

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 42642	From: Marion Hogervorst	Date: 8/10/2009
Subject: Re: New Version Released

Hi guys, this is a site where ppl can share, upload and download files. I downloaded it but my computer tells me the files are corrupted, or inclomplete or not registered. So i can download, it's secure, only the program wont run on my windows/vista PC. -- Dagdag! Marion *** "Creativity is allowing yourself to make mistakes. Art is knowing which ones to keep.” —SCOTT ADAMS, THE DILBERT PRINCIPLE Weblog: http://booksandfiber.blogspot.com/ My pictures/ mijn foto's: http://www.flickr.com/photos/marretje/

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 42643	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 8/10/2009
Subject: Re: re; I'm getting my first home

Lisa, Then I would put off the tank move until a day or two after your main move. You'll have enough to worry about without adding the fish to the mix. \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Lisa Lawless Sent: Sunday, August 09, 2009 11:26 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] re; I'm getting my first home My parents are not moving, no. The distance is about 20mins from where I currently live   Lisa

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 42644	From: Dora Smith	Date: 8/10/2009
Subject: Re: [Bulk] RE: [AquaticLife] New Version Released

A program to keep track of your decorations? LOL! You can always make an Excel workbook to do the same thing. Yours, Dora Smith Austin, TX tiggernut24@... ----- Original Message ----- From: "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@...> To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Sunday, August 09, 2009 9:10 PM Subject: [Bulk] RE: [AquaticLife] New Version Released \\Steve//, I'm guessing this is a known safe site for downloads? I've never heard of it before. I did a Google on the software and see it for sale on it's main site for $24.95 with only a 30 day free trial. http://www.aquariumlab.com/ Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Steve Szabo Sent: Sunday, August 09, 2009 8:39 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] New Version Released This is a program designed to keep track of your aquarium. It appears to be aimed at the marine aquarist, but the FW enthusiast may also find the program useful. Helps you track water chemistry, and has graphing capabilities, You can create profiles of your fish, plants, inverts, and corals. The program will calculate the volume of your aquarium, as well as the weight. Allows you to keep track of your expenses (might want to hide this from your spouse--"What's this Rara fishiae $200 expense?" may not be a question you would want to exactly answer). It can also help you track your electrical usage and cost. http://0sec.org/software/4407-sea-apple-aquarium-lab-v433.html http://tinyurl.com/m7an2t \\Steve// ------------------------------------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the home page. Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com to receive the digest, which includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com for the No E-Mail option where you will still be able to read messages on the group and post replies. Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com to receive individual e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 42645	From: Courtland Jacob	Date: 8/10/2009
Subject: Re: stocking advice

I don't have a Neolamprologus buescheri they called it a red buscheri when i bought it, but it's deffinately not a Neolamprologus buescheri, but it looks like it's a malawi cichlid and not a tang. the taiwan is not that big at this point so as for it being too big for the tank i'll have to rethink him when he gets bigger, so far they all get along, no fighting just the occasional chasing. and since the hap red tails only mate with each other there is no competition between the males i've seen a lot of people mix victoria and malawi doesn't seem to be a huge problem if you do it correctly --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, Donna Ransome <djransome@...> wrote: > > These are the ones I had to look up. > > > > Protomelas sp. "Steveni Taiwan" hap 7" too big for your tank > > Haplochromis sp. "Thick Skin" a.k.a. sp. 44 and sp. Red Tail from Lake > Victoria, 5" might be OK > > Placidochromis electra hap might be OK > > Neolamprologus buescheri from Lake Tanganyika, highly aggressive, not a good > fit > > > > You have 3 lakes and fish with incompatible temperaments in the tank. If > you want to try an all male tank I'd lose the female sp. 44, the Taiwan, the > Demasoni and the Buescheri. > > > > That gives you 5 males. > > > > I'd add 3-5 more but look for a peaceful temperament. I'd stick to peacocks > for the rest. One of each species, make sure they look nothing alike. > > _____ > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On > Behalf Of Courtland Jacob > Sent: Sunday, August 09, 2009 3:38 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Subject: [AquaticLife] stocking advice > > > > > > I have a 55 Gallon African Cichlid tank lots of the red/orange lava rock > stcked for hiding > > i currently have > 2 Haplochromis sp.44 "Red Tail" , male and female pair > 1 Steveni Taiwan > 1 Demasoni > 1 Yellow Lab > 1 Red buscheri (i think that is what it is called, it's grey with orange > fins) > 1 swallow tail > 1 benga peacock > and one more little fish i have no idea what it is called, small mostly > grey, black and yellow dorsal, black ventril, black under eye and two black > stripes behind gill plate > > if anyone can identify the two I am unsure of that would be great, also, do > these cihclids belong together? they have done well so far, although the > Haplochromis sp.44 "Red Tail" is one of the smallest he is deffinately the > dominant one. I just want to make sure that I don't have fish together that > should never be together > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 42646	From: jett07002	Date: 8/10/2009
Subject: Re: New Version Released

I was going to ask about that. I am a complete know nothing when it comes to computers, but I was going to ask if this would work with WindowsXP since it is saying "Apple" which --I THINK---from the little that I know, that it would not work with Windows. By the way, if you want to sit and fool around with it, anyone that knows Excel could probably make a good worksheet on this. HMMMM. Might try it. Never thought of it before. I got pads near each of my tanks....LOL.........Pad Pad Here, Pad Pad There, Here a Pad, There a Pad, Everywhere a Pad Pad.......... Anyway, been doing it for years. It works. joe t

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 42647	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 8/10/2009
Subject: Re: New Version Released

I downloaded the program from the 0sec.org site and Comodo Antivirus hit on it as containing malware in the .zip file inside of the .rar file. This does not mean the *real* program is a bad program... only that the copy that is being given away (possible illegal file shared) for free on the file sharing site has possibly been compromised before it was uploaded to the 0sec.org file sharing site. If anyone wants to try this program for free for 30 days and then the cost for keeping it would be $24.95, they should probably go to the software creators website, http://www.aquariumlab.com/. If you want a free program that does some or possibly all that this Sea Apple one does, you can use Aqualog for free - http://joejaworski.com/aqualog/. Besides being available on the creators website, it is also found on reputable download sites like CNet's Download.com http://download.cnet.com/AquaLog/3000-2130_4-10027868.html There are also some pre-formatted Excel logs that I have and I will upload them for free download from my new blog page "Software, Spreadsheets And Other Technology For Aquariums" http://goldlenny.blogspot.com/2009/08/software-spreadsheets-and-other.html I'm still working on the page but I have started it and you can download the two spreadsheets and also find the above information on that page. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Marion Hogervorst Sent: Monday, August 10, 2009 2:26 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] New Version Released Hi guys, this is a site where ppl can share, upload and download files. I downloaded it but my computer tells me the files are corrupted, or inclomplete or not registered. So i can download, it's secure, only the program wont run on my windows/vista PC. -- Dagdag! Marion

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 42648	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 8/10/2009
Subject: Re: re; I'm getting my first home

What do you mean by a "benchtop water purifier"? While it sounds good to "purify" fishes water, in actuality, the filtration could be removing minerals and nutrients from the water that the fish actually need. For example, DI (Distilled) Water and RO Water (Reverse Osmosis) water cannot be used 100% for keeping fish. Some folks will mix their tap water with either DI or RO to dilute the hardness and pH, if they have high hardness and pH tap water but most people usually have tap water that is GOOD for a large variety of fish so it's always best to keep fish that are compatible with your tap water, rather than trying to constantly alter the tap water to suit fish that do not like your tap water parameters. If you know somebody who has this same type of filter, you could take a sample of their plain tap water and filtered tap water and run baseline testing on them to see how much the filter takes out. You can also do this once you have the filter in your home and then decide whether it is best to use the filter tap water or unfiltered tap water for your fish. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Lisa Sent: Sunday, August 09, 2009 10:58 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: re; I'm getting my first home Should have also mentioned... In my contract of sale, in the section where it tells you what the standard inclusions are, it says nothing about the piping for the plumbing. And whether or not it's pvc or copper, except that I have chrome faucets. Although I suspect the faucet has nothing to do with the water's PH or calcium levels. And as mentioned, more to do with the pipes. For self serving purposes, I wanted to invest in a benchtop water purifier anyway. Would this also be of any benefit come pwc time? With the addition of water conditioners of course Lisa > My parents are not moving, no. The distance is about 20mins from where > I currently live >   > Lisa

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 42649	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 8/10/2009
Subject: Re: New Version Released

The original program from the creators website is a Windows based program. I'm not sure why they chose the name, Sea Apple Aquarium Lab, but it could be that a "Sea Apple" is a SW Invert apparently related to a "Sea Cucumber" http://www.advancedaquarist.com/issues/mar2003/invert.htm Sounds like them SW folks have a smorgasbord of common names for their fish... OK.. maybe not a smorgasbord... maybe a salad bar? ;-) Check out my new blog page for some pre-formatted spreadsheets that you could modify as needed or see the Aqualog software which is free and basically creates a spreadsheet without the user having to know how to create spreadsheets. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of jett07002 Sent: Monday, August 10, 2009 11:20 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: New Version Released I was going to ask about that. I am a complete know nothing when it comes to computers, but I was going to ask if this would work with WindowsXP since it is saying "Apple" which --I THINK---from the little that I know, that it would not work with Windows. By the way, if you want to sit and fool around with it, anyone that knows Excel could probably make a good worksheet on this. HMMMM. Might try it. Never thought of it before. I got pads near each of my tanks....LOL.........Pad Pad Here, Pad Pad There, Here a Pad, There a Pad, Everywhere a Pad Pad.......... Anyway, been doing it for years. It works. joe t

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 42650	From: Donna Ransome	Date: 8/10/2009
Subject: Re: stocking advice

We usually give stocking advice based on fish when mature. Agree, you can mix certain Vics and Malawi, I plan on doing it myself when I do my all male tank in a couple years. Why do you say the red tails only mate with each other? You know that all mouthbrooders can crossbreed right? If you do not have females of the other species in the tank, the males will try to breed with that lone female and she will probably get chased too much for her health. How old are the fish? Maybe they are not mature enough to chase her yet. Can’t help you with the red buscheri when I do a google search all that comes up is neolamprologus buescheri. _____ From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Courtland Jacob Sent: Monday, August 10, 2009 11:41 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: stocking advice I don't have a Neolamprologus buescheri they called it a red buscheri when i bought it, but it's deffinately not a Neolamprologus buescheri, but it looks like it's a malawi cichlid and not a tang. the taiwan is not that big at this point so as for it being too big for the tank i'll have to rethink him when he gets bigger, so far they all get along, no fighting just the occasional chasing. and since the hap red tails only mate with each other there is no competition between the males i've seen a lot of people mix victoria and malawi doesn't seem to be a huge problem if you do it correctly --- In AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com, Donna Ransome <djransome@...> wrote: > > These are the ones I had to look up. > > > > Protomelas sp. "Steveni Taiwan" hap 7" too big for your tank > > Haplochromis sp. "Thick Skin" a.k.a. sp. 44 and sp. Red Tail from Lake > Victoria, 5" might be OK > > Placidochromis electra hap might be OK > > Neolamprologus buescheri from Lake Tanganyika, highly aggressive, not a good > fit > > > > You have 3 lakes and fish with incompatible temperaments in the tank. If > you want to try an all male tank I'd lose the female sp. 44, the Taiwan, the > Demasoni and the Buescheri. > > > > That gives you 5 males. > > > > I'd add 3-5 more but look for a peaceful temperament. I'd stick to peacocks > for the rest. One of each species, make sure they look nothing alike. > > _____ > > From: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com] On > Behalf Of Courtland Jacob > Sent: Sunday, August 09, 2009 3:38 PM > To: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com > Subject: [AquaticLife] stocking advice > > > > > > I have a 55 Gallon African Cichlid tank lots of the red/orange lava rock > stcked for hiding > > i currently have > 2 Haplochromis sp.44 "Red Tail" , male and female pair > 1 Steveni Taiwan > 1 Demasoni > 1 Yellow Lab > 1 Red buscheri (i think that is what it is called, it's grey with orange > fins) > 1 swallow tail > 1 benga peacock > and one more little fish i have no idea what it is called, small mostly > grey, black and yellow dorsal, black ventril, black under eye and two black > stripes behind gill plate > > if anyone can identify the two I am unsure of that would be great, also, do > these cihclids belong together? they have done well so far, although the > Haplochromis sp.44 "Red Tail" is one of the smallest he is deffinately the > dominant one. I just want to make sure that I don't have fish together that > should never be together > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 42651	From: Courtland Jacob	Date: 8/10/2009
Subject: Re: stocking advice

i get the same results with google. maybe all mouth brooders and interbreed, but the other males don't try to breed with her, the red tails are the smallest and the youngest, all of them are old enough to mate, but like i said peacocks don't seem to want to mate with her and neither does the steveni. now if i had a peacock female i might have some issues considering there would be alot of competition --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, Donna Ransome <djransome@...> wrote: > > We usually give stocking advice based on fish when mature. Agree, you can > mix certain Vics and Malawi, I plan on doing it myself when I do my all male > tank in a couple years. > > > > Why do you say the red tails only mate with each other? You know that all > mouthbrooders can crossbreed right? If you do not have females of the other > species in the tank, the males will try to breed with that lone female and > she will probably get chased too much for her health. > > > > How old are the fish? Maybe they are not mature enough to chase her yet. > > > > Can't help you with the red buscheri when I do a google search all that > comes up is neolamprologus buescheri. > > > > _____ > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On > Behalf Of Courtland Jacob > Sent: Monday, August 10, 2009 11:41 AM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: stocking advice > > > > > > I don't have a Neolamprologus buescheri they called it a red buscheri when i > bought it, but it's deffinately not a Neolamprologus buescheri, but it looks > like it's a malawi cichlid and not a tang. the taiwan is not that big at > this point so as for it being too big for the tank i'll have to rethink him > when he gets bigger, so far they all get along, no fighting just the > occasional chasing. and since the hap red tails only mate with each other > there is no competition between the males > > i've seen a lot of people mix victoria and malawi doesn't seem to be a huge > problem if you do it correctly > > --- In AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com, > Donna Ransome <djransome@> wrote: > > > > These are the ones I had to look up. > > > > > > > > Protomelas sp. "Steveni Taiwan" hap 7" too big for your tank > > > > Haplochromis sp. "Thick Skin" a.k.a. sp. 44 and sp. Red Tail from Lake > > Victoria, 5" might be OK > > > > Placidochromis electra hap might be OK > > > > Neolamprologus buescheri from Lake Tanganyika, highly aggressive, not a > good > > fit > > > > > > > > You have 3 lakes and fish with incompatible temperaments in the tank. If > > you want to try an all male tank I'd lose the female sp. 44, the Taiwan, > the > > Demasoni and the Buescheri. > > > > > > > > That gives you 5 males. > > > > > > > > I'd add 3-5 more but look for a peaceful temperament. I'd stick to > peacocks > > for the rest. One of each species, make sure they look nothing alike. > > > > _____ > > > > From: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com > [mailto:AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com] > On > > Behalf Of Courtland Jacob > > Sent: Sunday, August 09, 2009 3:38 PM > > To: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com > > Subject: [AquaticLife] stocking advice > > > > > > > > > > > > I have a 55 Gallon African Cichlid tank lots of the red/orange lava rock > > stcked for hiding > > > > i currently have > > 2 Haplochromis sp.44 "Red Tail" , male and female pair > > 1 Steveni Taiwan > > 1 Demasoni > > 1 Yellow Lab > > 1 Red buscheri (i think that is what it is called, it's grey with orange > > fins) > > 1 swallow tail > > 1 benga peacock > > and one more little fish i have no idea what it is called, small mostly > > grey, black and yellow dorsal, black ventril, black under eye and two > black > > stripes behind gill plate > > > > if anyone can identify the two I am unsure of that would be great, also, > do > > these cihclids belong together? they have done well so far, although the > > Haplochromis sp.44 "Red Tail" is one of the smallest he is deffinately the > > dominant one. I just want to make sure that I don't have fish together > that > > should never be together > > > > > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 42652	From: jasmine swann	Date: 8/11/2009
Subject: GoldLenny's Blog - Fish Jokes and Cartoons page updated

Loved the jokes and cartoons Lenny Oh, thank you to those people who sent them to you too __________________________________________________________________________________ Find local businesses and services in your area with Yahoo!7 Local. Get started: http://local.yahoo.com.au [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 42653	From: Carolyn Nagle	Date: 8/11/2009
Subject: Need help with leaking aquarium

My 70 gallon tank has "sprung" a small leak in one of the corner seams. It is about 1/2 way up and since I don't have another aquarium available at the moment I was wondering if I could so something on the outside to stop the leak until I can get another one set up for these fish. Then I think I need to empty this one and re-do the joints on the inside. What would the easiest "quick fix" be? Hope someone can help. Carolyn in Illinois

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 42654	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 8/11/2009
Subject: Re: Need help with leaking aquarium

The top question on this page has the same problem as yours and I think the answer is probably the only one that I would give as well. http://www.wetwebmedia.com/aqrepairfaqs.htm This article gives similar step-by-step instructions. http://saltaquarium.about.com/cs/aquariumdiy/ht/htrepairsmleaks.htm Here's an article on doing a complete job. http://www.aquamaniacs.net/forum/cms_view_article.php?aid=107 You could also buy a Sterilite or Rubbermaid type storage box as a temporary holding tank for your fish, filter system, plants, a bowl of gravel, etc., while you do the repair. How old is this aquarium? Is it on a stabile stand? Was it moved recently where it might have been *twisted* or something like that? The reason I ask is that leaks do not normally just happen out of the blue like this. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Carolyn Nagle Sent: Tuesday, August 11, 2009 9:30 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Need help with leaking aquarium My 70 gallon tank has "sprung" a small leak in one of the corner seams. It is about 1/2 way up and since I don't have another aquarium available at the moment I was wondering if I could so something on the outside to stop the leak until I can get another one set up for these fish. Then I think I need to empty this one and re-do the joints on the inside. What would the easiest "quick fix" be? Hope someone can help. Carolyn in Illinois

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 42655	From: ''Grey'' Geyerman	Date: 8/11/2009
Subject: Re: Need help with leaking aquarium

I would be tempted to try that Magic Putty as advertised on tv by Billy Mays Grey ·´¯`·..><((((º>.·´¯`·.><((((º>.·´¯`·..><((((º> To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com From: karlynbasenjis2@... Date: Tue, 11 Aug 2009 14:30:14 +0000 Subject: [AquaticLife] Need help with leaking aquarium My 70 gallon tank has "sprung" a small leak in one of the corner seams. It is about 1/2 way up and since I don't have another aquarium available at the moment I was wondering if I could so something on the outside to stop the leak until I can get another one set up for these fish. Then I think I need to empty this one and re-do the joints on the inside. What would the easiest "quick fix" be? Hope someone can help. Carolyn in Illinois [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 42656	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 8/11/2009
Subject: Re: Need help with leaking aquarium

that doesn't sound aquarium safe to me... Amber ''Grey'' Geyerman wrote: > > > > I would be tempted to try that Magic Putty as advertised on tv by > Billy Mays > > Grey > ·´¯`·..><((((º>.·´¯`·.><((((º>.·´¯`·..><((((º> > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > From: karlynbasenjis2@... <mailto:karlynbasenjis2%40peoplepc.com> > Date: Tue, 11 Aug 2009 14:30:14 +0000 > Subject: [AquaticLife] Need help with leaking aquarium > > My 70 gallon tank has "sprung" a small leak in one of the corner > seams. It is about 1/2 way up and since I don't have another aquarium > available at the moment I was wondering if I could so something on the > outside to stop the leak until I can get another one set up for these > fish. Then I think I need to empty this one and re-do the joints on > the inside. What would the easiest "quick fix" be? > > Hope someone can help. > > Carolyn in Illinois > > > > > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 42657	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 8/11/2009
Subject: Re: Need help with leaking aquarium

That stuff is actually a two-part epoxy and might be VERY difficult to get off if it makes a good seal in the first place... unless you don't mind a big gray blob stuck on the corner of your tank. I guess if it was in the back and you had a house plant to hide it, then it would be OK. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of ''Grey'' Geyerman Sent: Tuesday, August 11, 2009 10:22 AM To: aquaticlife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Need help with leaking aquarium I would be tempted to try that Magic Putty as advertised on tv by Billy Mays Grey ·´¯`·..><((((º>.·´¯`·.><((((º>.·´¯`·..><((((º> To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com From: karlynbasenjis2@... Date: Tue, 11 Aug 2009 14:30:14 +0000 Subject: [AquaticLife] Need help with leaking aquarium My 70 gallon tank has "sprung" a small leak in one of the corner seams. It is about 1/2 way up and since I don't have another aquarium available at the moment I was wondering if I could so something on the outside to stop the leak until I can get another one set up for these fish. Then I think I need to empty this one and re-do the joints on the inside. What would the easiest "quick fix" be? Hope someone can help. Carolyn in Illinois

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 42658	From: Carolyn Nagle	Date: 8/11/2009
Subject: Re: Need help with leaking aquarium

Thanks for the links. This is an older "custom made" aquarium that has a very heavy wooden cover hinged on the back and I am pretty sure I tweaked it a couple days ago when I lifted it. I should probably just junk it, but I really like the custom stand and top. :-) We will see how well it seals. I did get the water level down and the fish seem to be doing OK right now. Just can't use the filter... --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@...> wrote: > > The top question on this page has the same problem as yours and I think the > answer is probably the only one that I would give as well. > > http://www.wetwebmedia.com/aqrepairfaqs.htm > > This article gives similar step-by-step instructions. > > http://saltaquarium.about.com/cs/aquariumdiy/ht/htrepairsmleaks.htm > > Here's an article on doing a complete job. > > http://www.aquamaniacs.net/forum/cms_view_article.php?aid=107 > > You could also buy a Sterilite or Rubbermaid type storage box as a temporary > holding tank for your fish, filter system, plants, a bowl of gravel, etc., > while you do the repair. > > How old is this aquarium? Is it on a stabile stand? Was it moved recently > where it might have been *twisted* or something like that? The reason I ask > is that leaks do not normally just happen out of the blue like this. > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right > side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On > Behalf Of Carolyn Nagle > Sent: Tuesday, August 11, 2009 9:30 AM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Subject: [AquaticLife] Need help with leaking aquarium > > My 70 gallon tank has "sprung" a small leak in one of the corner seams. It > is about 1/2 way up and since I don't have another aquarium available at the > moment I was wondering if I could so something on the outside to stop the > leak until I can get another one set up for these fish. Then I think I need > to empty this one and re-do the joints on the inside. What would the > easiest "quick fix" be? > > Hope someone can help. > > Carolyn in Illinois >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 42659	From: ''Grey'' Geyerman	Date: 8/11/2009
Subject: Re: Need help with leaking aquarium

She said she wanted to try it on the outside... that is the way it is advertised on TV Grey ·´¯`·..><((((º>.·´¯`·.><((((º>.·´¯`·..><((((º> To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com From: arberglund@... Date: Tue, 11 Aug 2009 07:44:26 -0800 Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Need help with leaking aquarium that doesn't sound aquarium safe to me... Amber ''Grey'' Geyerman wrote: > > > > I would be tempted to try that Magic Putty as advertised on tv by > Billy Mays > > Grey > ·´¯`·..><((((º>.·´¯`·.><((((º>.·´¯`·..><((((º> > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > From: karlynbasenjis2@... <mailto:karlynbasenjis2%40peoplepc.com> > Date: Tue, 11 Aug 2009 14:30:14 +0000 > Subject: [AquaticLife] Need help with leaking aquarium > > My 70 gallon tank has "sprung" a small leak in one of the corner > seams. It is about 1/2 way up and since I don't have another aquarium > available at the moment I was wondering if I could so something on the > outside to stop the leak until I can get another one set up for these > fish. Then I think I need to empty this one and re-do the joints on > the inside. What would the easiest "quick fix" be? > > Hope someone can help. > > Carolyn in Illinois > > > > > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 42660	From: Courtland Jacob	Date: 8/11/2009
Subject: shells

where do you find shells for shellies? i thought i saw a container with some at petsmart, but maybe it was just the grocery store that i saw them, would those work?

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 42661	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 8/11/2009
Subject: Re: Need help with leaking aquarium

Well, there's no reason to junk it. A new one would cost you a LOT of money for something that can be fixed. You need to keep your filter going though. If you do not keep it going, you will have major cycling issues. What kind do you have? You can get a piece of clear hose (make sure it's marked for Potable water) and slide it on to the intake tube to extend it down into the water if that is the problem. If it doesn't have enough power to lift the water, or if it's an HOB (hang on back), maybe you can rig up something like a bending a clothes hanger or something to allow the filter to hang down inside the tank. Just make sure it's secure so the filter doesn't fall off into the water and maybe wrap the motor in a plastic baggy and tape the baggy to the plastic reservoir housing to prevent splashing water from getting onto the motor. If there is no way to do this, then every hour, pour several large cups of water through the reservoir to keep the filter media at least partially cycled but it would be best to keep it running full time. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Carolyn Nagle Sent: Tuesday, August 11, 2009 10:50 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Need help with leaking aquarium Thanks for the links. This is an older "custom made" aquarium that has a very heavy wooden cover hinged on the back and I am pretty sure I tweaked it a couple days ago when I lifted it. I should probably just junk it, but I really like the custom stand and top. :-) We will see how well it seals. I did get the water level down and the fish seem to be doing OK right now. Just can't use the filter... --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@...> wrote: > > The top question on this page has the same problem as yours and I > think the answer is probably the only one that I would give as well. > > http://www.wetwebmedia.com/aqrepairfaqs.htm > > This article gives similar step-by-step instructions. > > http://saltaquarium.about.com/cs/aquariumdiy/ht/htrepairsmleaks.htm > > Here's an article on doing a complete job. > > http://www.aquamaniacs.net/forum/cms_view_article.php?aid=107 > > You could also buy a Sterilite or Rubbermaid type storage box as a > temporary holding tank for your fish, filter system, plants, a bowl of > gravel, etc., while you do the repair. > > How old is this aquarium? Is it on a stabile stand? Was it moved > recently where it might have been *twisted* or something like that? > The reason I ask is that leaks do not normally just happen out of the blue like this. > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles > referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically > under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] > On Behalf Of Carolyn Nagle > Sent: Tuesday, August 11, 2009 9:30 AM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Subject: [AquaticLife] Need help with leaking aquarium > > My 70 gallon tank has "sprung" a small leak in one of the corner > seams. It is about 1/2 way up and since I don't have another aquarium > available at the moment I was wondering if I could so something on the > outside to stop the leak until I can get another one set up for these > fish. Then I think I need to empty this one and re-do the joints on > the inside. What would the easiest "quick fix" be? > > Hope someone can help. > > Carolyn in Illinois

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 42662	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 8/11/2009
Subject: Re: Need help with leaking aquarium

Yeah, but Billy doesn't tell you that once it hardens and sticks, it's not easy to get off. They do kind of show it when they show sanding it down when used to repair the wooden table leg. They also show it being used on a drain pipe or a glass of water, which are not under pressure, not a water pipe or half way down on an aquarium that has a LOT of water pressure. Maybe Billy had used too much Orange-Blow that day and forgot to mention those caveats... ooops.. I meant Orange-Glo ;-) Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of ''Grey'' Geyerman Sent: Tuesday, August 11, 2009 10:57 AM To: aquaticlife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Need help with leaking aquarium She said she wanted to try it on the outside... that is the way it is advertised on TV Grey ·´¯`·..><((((º>.·´¯`·.><((((º>.·´¯`·..><((((º> To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com From: arberglund@... Date: Tue, 11 Aug 2009 07:44:26 -0800 Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Need help with leaking aquarium that doesn't sound aquarium safe to me... Amber ''Grey'' Geyerman wrote: > > > > I would be tempted to try that Magic Putty as advertised on tv by > Billy Mays > > Grey > ·´¯`·..><((((º>.·´¯`·.><((((º>.·´¯`·..><((((º> > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > From: karlynbasenjis2@... > <mailto:karlynbasenjis2%40peoplepc.com> > Date: Tue, 11 Aug 2009 14:30:14 +0000 > Subject: [AquaticLife] Need help with leaking aquarium > > My 70 gallon tank has "sprung" a small leak in one of the corner > seams. It is about 1/2 way up and since I don't have another aquarium > available at the moment I was wondering if I could so something on the > outside to stop the leak until I can get another one set up for these > fish. Then I think I need to empty this one and re-do the joints on > the inside. What would the easiest "quick fix" be? > > Hope someone can help. > > Carolyn in Illinois

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 42663	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 8/11/2009
Subject: Re: shells

Craft stores would sell them but you can also find them on eBay. Here's one ad for 10 shells for $2.99 and only $2.75 shipping. http://cgi.ebay.com/10-STRIPED-EYE-SHELLS-Cichlids-hermit-crabs_W0QQitemZ250 457560099QQcmdZViewItemQQptZLH_DefaultDomain_0?hash=item3a506f1423&_trksid=p 3286.m20.l1116 You can search Cichlid Shells to find the above link or search Sea Shells to find many others. You can also find Escargot shells at some grocery stores. Here's a link I found on a Cichlid Breeding site with different shells for sale. http://www.cichlidbreeding.com/products.php?cat=10 Just make sure you clean and sterilize them first. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Courtland Jacob Sent: Tuesday, August 11, 2009 12:19 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] shells where do you find shells for shellies? i thought i saw a container with some at petsmart, but maybe it was just the grocery store that i saw them, would those work?

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 42664	From: Carolyn Nagle	Date: 8/11/2009
Subject: Re: Need help with leaking aquarium

I am not sure what it is called, but there is a "box" built into the back corner where the water flows over the top and goes to another tank in the bottom of the stand. That tank is filled with the filtering material and then pumped back up into tank. Probably not the best way to explain it, but you can see why it is impossible to run it. I do have a smaller filter currently running inside the tank. The fish seem to be doing fine for now. Thanks for all the advise. Carolyn --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@...> wrote: > > Well, there's no reason to junk it. A new one would cost you a LOT of money > for something that can be fixed. > > You need to keep your filter going though. If you do not keep it going, you > will have major cycling issues. > > What kind do you have? > > You can get a piece of clear hose (make sure it's marked for Potable water) > and slide it on to the intake tube to extend it down into the water if that > is the problem. If it doesn't have enough power to lift the water, or if > it's an HOB (hang on back), maybe you can rig up something like a bending a > clothes hanger or something to allow the filter to hang down inside the > tank. Just make sure it's secure so the filter doesn't fall off into the > water and maybe wrap the motor in a plastic baggy and tape the baggy to the > plastic reservoir housing to prevent splashing water from getting onto the > motor. > > If there is no way to do this, then every hour, pour several large cups of > water through the reservoir to keep the filter media at least partially > cycled but it would be best to keep it running full time. > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right > side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) > > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On > Behalf Of Carolyn Nagle > Sent: Tuesday, August 11, 2009 10:50 AM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Need help with leaking aquarium > > Thanks for the links. This is an older "custom made" aquarium that has a > very heavy wooden cover hinged on the back and I am pretty sure I tweaked it > a couple days ago when I lifted it. I should probably just junk it, but I > really like the custom stand and top. :-) > > We will see how well it seals. I did get the water level down and the fish > seem to be doing OK right now. Just can't use the filter... > > > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@> > wrote: > > > > The top question on this page has the same problem as yours and I > > think the answer is probably the only one that I would give as well. > > > > http://www.wetwebmedia.com/aqrepairfaqs.htm > > > > This article gives similar step-by-step instructions. > > > > http://saltaquarium.about.com/cs/aquariumdiy/ht/htrepairsmleaks.htm > > > > Here's an article on doing a complete job. > > > > http://www.aquamaniacs.net/forum/cms_view_article.php?aid=107 > > > > You could also buy a Sterilite or Rubbermaid type storage box as a > > temporary holding tank for your fish, filter system, plants, a bowl of > > gravel, etc., while you do the repair. > > > > How old is this aquarium? Is it on a stabile stand? Was it moved > > recently where it might have been *twisted* or something like that? > > The reason I ask is that leaks do not normally just happen out of the blue > like this. > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles > > referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically > > under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) > > > > > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] > > On Behalf Of Carolyn Nagle > > Sent: Tuesday, August 11, 2009 9:30 AM > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > Subject: [AquaticLife] Need help with leaking aquarium > > > > My 70 gallon tank has "sprung" a small leak in one of the corner > > seams. It is about 1/2 way up and since I don't have another aquarium > > available at the moment I was wondering if I could so something on the > > outside to stop the leak until I can get another one set up for these > > fish. Then I think I need to empty this one and re-do the joints on > > the inside. What would the easiest "quick fix" be? > > > > Hope someone can help. > > > > Carolyn in Illinois >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 42665	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 8/11/2009
Subject: Re: Need help with leaking aquarium

OK. You have a sump system and an overflow box at the top. Is the tank drilled and plumbed so that the overflow box drains through the back of the aquarium and down to the sump tank or do you have an overflow U-tube (upside down U)? In either case, there's no easy fix to keep this running without the overflow box to regulate the water flow between the two tanks. To keep the sump tank bacteria alive, add an air stone to it so the air is bubbling up through the filter media and that will also circulate some of the water as well. You probably have enough detritus in the sump that will continue to decay and put out ammonia to keep your nitrogen cycle going. For the main tank, take some of the filter media out of the sump and put it over an air stone in that tank and that will help to keep the main tank from having a build up of ammonia/nitrite... BUT.. you should also test the water for ammonia and nitrite to make sure they are not rising above the normal 0.0ppm level. If they do, you will have to do necessary PWC's (partial water changes) to keep them below 1.0ppm or less, depending on your pH. Give us all of your test results for more help with this phase. Hopefully, if you can get the tank fixed in a day, you won't see any major ammonia/nitrite spikes. Do you have live plants in the main tank? Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Carolyn Nagle Sent: Tuesday, August 11, 2009 12:58 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Need help with leaking aquarium I am not sure what it is called, but there is a "box" built into the back corner where the water flows over the top and goes to another tank in the bottom of the stand. That tank is filled with the filtering material and then pumped back up into tank. Probably not the best way to explain it, but you can see why it is impossible to run it. I do have a smaller filter currently running inside the tank. The fish seem to be doing fine for now. Thanks for all the advise. Carolyn --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@...> wrote: > > Well, there's no reason to junk it. A new one would cost you a LOT of > money for something that can be fixed. > > You need to keep your filter going though. If you do not keep it > going, you will have major cycling issues. > > What kind do you have? > > You can get a piece of clear hose (make sure it's marked for Potable > water) and slide it on to the intake tube to extend it down into the > water if that is the problem. If it doesn't have enough power to lift > the water, or if it's an HOB (hang on back), maybe you can rig up > something like a bending a clothes hanger or something to allow the > filter to hang down inside the tank. Just make sure it's secure so > the filter doesn't fall off into the water and maybe wrap the motor in > a plastic baggy and tape the baggy to the plastic reservoir housing to > prevent splashing water from getting onto the motor. > > If there is no way to do this, then every hour, pour several large > cups of water through the reservoir to keep the filter media at least > partially cycled but it would be best to keep it running full time. > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles > referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically > under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) > > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] > On Behalf Of Carolyn Nagle > Sent: Tuesday, August 11, 2009 10:50 AM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Need help with leaking aquarium > > Thanks for the links. This is an older "custom made" aquarium that > has a very heavy wooden cover hinged on the back and I am pretty sure > I tweaked it a couple days ago when I lifted it. I should probably > just junk it, but I really like the custom stand and top. :-) > > We will see how well it seals. I did get the water level down and the > fish seem to be doing OK right now. Just can't use the filter... > > > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" > <GoldLenny@> > wrote: > > > > The top question on this page has the same problem as yours and I > > think the answer is probably the only one that I would give as well. > > > > http://www.wetwebmedia.com/aqrepairfaqs.htm > > > > This article gives similar step-by-step instructions. > > > > http://saltaquarium.about.com/cs/aquariumdiy/ht/htrepairsmleaks.htm > > > > Here's an article on doing a complete job. > > > > http://www.aquamaniacs.net/forum/cms_view_article.php?aid=107 > > > > You could also buy a Sterilite or Rubbermaid type storage box as a > > temporary holding tank for your fish, filter system, plants, a bowl > > of gravel, etc., while you do the repair. > > > > How old is this aquarium? Is it on a stabile stand? Was it moved > > recently where it might have been *twisted* or something like that? > > The reason I ask is that leaks do not normally just happen out of > > the blue > like this. > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles > > referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, > > alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) > > > > > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] > > On Behalf Of Carolyn Nagle > > Sent: Tuesday, August 11, 2009 9:30 AM > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > Subject: [AquaticLife] Need help with leaking aquarium > > > > My 70 gallon tank has "sprung" a small leak in one of the corner > > seams. It is about 1/2 way up and since I don't have another > > aquarium available at the moment I was wondering if I could so > > something on the outside to stop the leak until I can get another > > one set up for these fish. Then I think I need to empty this one > > and re-do the joints on the inside. What would the easiest "quick fix" be? > > > > Hope someone can help. > > > > Carolyn in Illinois

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 42666	From: Courtland Jacob	Date: 8/11/2009
Subject: Re: shells

yeah i know i can find them at the grocery store, as long as they are safe to use i'll use those --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@...> wrote: > > Craft stores would sell them but you can also find them on eBay. Here's one > ad for 10 shells for $2.99 and only $2.75 shipping. > > http://cgi.ebay.com/10-STRIPED-EYE-SHELLS-Cichlids-hermit-crabs_W0QQitemZ250 > 457560099QQcmdZViewItemQQptZLH_DefaultDomain_0?hash=item3a506f1423&_trksid=p > 3286.m20.l1116 > > You can search Cichlid Shells to find the above link or search Sea Shells to > find many others. > > You can also find Escargot shells at some grocery stores. > > Here's a link I found on a Cichlid Breeding site with different shells for > sale. > http://www.cichlidbreeding.com/products.php?cat=10 > > Just make sure you clean and sterilize them first. > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right > side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) > > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On > Behalf Of Courtland Jacob > Sent: Tuesday, August 11, 2009 12:19 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Subject: [AquaticLife] shells > > where do you find shells for shellies? i thought i saw a container with some > at petsmart, but maybe it was just the grocery store that i saw them, would > those work? >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 42667	From: Carolyn Nagle	Date: 8/11/2009
Subject: Re: Need help with leaking aquarium

I knew it had a name. :-) The bottom of the tank is drilled and there is a stand tube that the water flows into and then down to the lower tank. I do have live plants in the tank, mostly val and some moss on the driftwood. Not too many fish, just 3 angels, 2 plecos and a bunch of guppies. Everyone seems to be doing fine, although the Angels aren't too happy with their cramped quarters at the moment. Thanks for the suggestion on the air stone in the lower tank. Will do that. Hopefully it will be back up and running tomorrow. Carolyn in Illinois --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@...> wrote: > > OK. You have a sump system and an overflow box at the top. Is the tank > drilled and plumbed so that the overflow box drains through the back of the > aquarium and down to the sump tank or do you have an overflow U-tube (upside > down U)? > > In either case, there's no easy fix to keep this running without the > overflow box to regulate the water flow between the two tanks. > > To keep the sump tank bacteria alive, add an air stone to it so the air is > bubbling up through the filter media and that will also circulate some of > the water as well. You probably have enough detritus in the sump that will > continue to decay and put out ammonia to keep your nitrogen cycle going. > > For the main tank, take some of the filter media out of the sump and put it > over an air stone in that tank and that will help to keep the main tank from > having a build up of ammonia/nitrite... BUT.. you should also test the water > for ammonia and nitrite to make sure they are not rising above the normal > 0.0ppm level. If they do, you will have to do necessary PWC's (partial > water changes) to keep them below 1.0ppm or less, depending on your pH. > Give us all of your test results for more help with this phase. Hopefully, > if you can get the tank fixed in a day, you won't see any major > ammonia/nitrite spikes. > > Do you have live plants in the main tank? > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right > side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) > > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On > Behalf Of Carolyn Nagle > Sent: Tuesday, August 11, 2009 12:58 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Need help with leaking aquarium > > I am not sure what it is called, but there is a "box" built into the back > corner where the water flows over the top and goes to another tank in the > bottom of the stand. That tank is filled with the filtering material and > then pumped back up into tank. Probably not the best way to explain it, but > you can see why it is impossible to run it. I do have a smaller filter > currently running inside the tank. The fish seem to be doing fine for now. > > Thanks for all the advise. > > Carolyn > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@> > wrote: > > > > Well, there's no reason to junk it. A new one would cost you a LOT of > > money for something that can be fixed. > > > > You need to keep your filter going though. If you do not keep it > > going, you will have major cycling issues. > > > > What kind do you have? > > > > You can get a piece of clear hose (make sure it's marked for Potable > > water) and slide it on to the intake tube to extend it down into the > > water if that is the problem. If it doesn't have enough power to lift > > the water, or if it's an HOB (hang on back), maybe you can rig up > > something like a bending a clothes hanger or something to allow the > > filter to hang down inside the tank. Just make sure it's secure so > > the filter doesn't fall off into the water and maybe wrap the motor in > > a plastic baggy and tape the baggy to the plastic reservoir housing to > > prevent splashing water from getting onto the motor. > > > > If there is no way to do this, then every hour, pour several large > > cups of water through the reservoir to keep the filter media at least > > partially cycled but it would be best to keep it running full time. > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles > > referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically > > under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] > > On Behalf Of Carolyn Nagle > > Sent: Tuesday, August 11, 2009 10:50 AM > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Need help with leaking aquarium > > > > Thanks for the links. This is an older "custom made" aquarium that > > has a very heavy wooden cover hinged on the back and I am pretty sure > > I tweaked it a couple days ago when I lifted it. I should probably > > just junk it, but I really like the custom stand and top. :-) > > > > We will see how well it seals. I did get the water level down and the > > fish seem to be doing OK right now. Just can't use the filter... > > > > > > > > > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" > > <GoldLenny@> > > wrote: > > > > > > The top question on this page has the same problem as yours and I > > > think the answer is probably the only one that I would give as well. > > > > > > http://www.wetwebmedia.com/aqrepairfaqs.htm > > > > > > This article gives similar step-by-step instructions. > > > > > > http://saltaquarium.about.com/cs/aquariumdiy/ht/htrepairsmleaks.htm > > > > > > Here's an article on doing a complete job. > > > > > > http://www.aquamaniacs.net/forum/cms_view_article.php?aid=107 > > > > > > You could also buy a Sterilite or Rubbermaid type storage box as a > > > temporary holding tank for your fish, filter system, plants, a bowl > > > of gravel, etc., while you do the repair. > > > > > > How old is this aquarium? Is it on a stabile stand? Was it moved > > > recently where it might have been *twisted* or something like that? > > > The reason I ask is that leaks do not normally just happen out of > > > the blue > > like this. > > > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles > > > referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, > > > alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] > > > On Behalf Of Carolyn Nagle > > > Sent: Tuesday, August 11, 2009 9:30 AM > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > > Subject: [AquaticLife] Need help with leaking aquarium > > > > > > My 70 gallon tank has "sprung" a small leak in one of the corner > > > seams. It is about 1/2 way up and since I don't have another > > > aquarium available at the moment I was wondering if I could so > > > something on the outside to stop the leak until I can get another > > > one set up for these fish. Then I think I need to empty this one > > > and re-do the joints on the inside. What would the easiest "quick fix" > be? > > > > > > Hope someone can help. > > > > > > Carolyn in Illinois >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 42668	From: caroline	Date: 8/11/2009
Subject: siamese fish

do you empty the entire bowl..stirring up the sand..then put in new water..or just vaccum the sand.. thank you..

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 42669	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 8/11/2009
Subject: Re: shells

I would imagine the ones at the grocery store are probably assured of being clean and sanitized since they are being sold to folks to be used as food items. One of the other links I sent, the CichlidBreeding shows the actual native snail shells (the top ad) that the fish are used to in the wild but from all I've read, as long as you provide an assortment of sizes of shells, the fish will be happy as long as they can find a shell that is the right size for what they want as a home. Maybe Donna or other shellie keepers will chime in with more details. The Escargot shells are at least lighter shells so the fish can move them around easier, compared to a conch shell or other heavy shell. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Courtland Jacob Sent: Tuesday, August 11, 2009 1:34 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: shells yeah i know i can find them at the grocery store, as long as they are safe to use i'll use those --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@...> wrote: > > Craft stores would sell them but you can also find them on eBay. > Here's one ad for 10 shells for $2.99 and only $2.75 shipping. > > http://cgi.ebay.com/10-STRIPED-EYE-SHELLS-Cichlids-hermit-crabs_W0QQitemZ250 457560099QQcmdZViewItemQQptZLH_DefaultDomain_0?hash=item3a506f1423&_trksid=p 3286.m20.l1116 > > You can search Cichlid Shells to find the above link or search Sea > Shells to find many others. > > You can also find Escargot shells at some grocery stores. > > Here's a link I found on a Cichlid Breeding site with different shells > for sale. > http://www.cichlidbreeding.com/products.php?cat=10 > > Just make sure you clean and sterilize them first. > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles > referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically > under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) > > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] > On Behalf Of Courtland Jacob > Sent: Tuesday, August 11, 2009 12:19 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Subject: [AquaticLife] shells > > where do you find shells for shellies? i thought i saw a container > with some at petsmart, but maybe it was just the grocery store that i > saw them, would those work?

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 42670	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 8/11/2009
Subject: Re: Need help with leaking aquarium

Oooh OK. If you really wanted to keep the circulation going, you would have to get a siphon going with a length of hose going from the water in your main tank up and over the "stand tube" (as you call it) with the rest of the hose going down into the sump. Once you get the water flowing, I'm guessing you have a pump in the sump that kicks on when the water reaches a certain level and then it pumps water back up to the main tank? Remember that after you do the repair with the aquarium safe silicone (not tub, tile or window caulk), you have to give it at least 24 hours to cure and dry and you do NOT want your tank's water to come into contact with the new silicone for at least this time period. Your live plants will help with keeping the tank cycled or using up any ammonia/nitrite but still test it to make sure... especially if you have a high pH level as ammonia becomes much more toxic at higher pH levels. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Carolyn Nagle Sent: Tuesday, August 11, 2009 1:35 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Need help with leaking aquarium I knew it had a name. :-) The bottom of the tank is drilled and there is a stand tube that the water flows into and then down to the lower tank. I do have live plants in the tank, mostly val and some moss on the driftwood. Not too many fish, just 3 angels, 2 plecos and a bunch of guppies. Everyone seems to be doing fine, although the Angels aren't too happy with their cramped quarters at the moment. Thanks for the suggestion on the air stone in the lower tank. Will do that. Hopefully it will be back up and running tomorrow. Carolyn in Illinois --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@...> wrote: > > OK. You have a sump system and an overflow box at the top. Is the > tank drilled and plumbed so that the overflow box drains through the > back of the aquarium and down to the sump tank or do you have an > overflow U-tube (upside down U)? > > In either case, there's no easy fix to keep this running without the > overflow box to regulate the water flow between the two tanks. > > To keep the sump tank bacteria alive, add an air stone to it so the > air is bubbling up through the filter media and that will also > circulate some of the water as well. You probably have enough > detritus in the sump that will continue to decay and put out ammonia to keep your nitrogen cycle going. > > For the main tank, take some of the filter media out of the sump and > put it over an air stone in that tank and that will help to keep the > main tank from having a build up of ammonia/nitrite... BUT.. you > should also test the water for ammonia and nitrite to make sure they > are not rising above the normal 0.0ppm level. If they do, you will > have to do necessary PWC's (partial water changes) to keep them below 1.0ppm or less, depending on your pH. > Give us all of your test results for more help with this phase. > Hopefully, if you can get the tank fixed in a day, you won't see any > major ammonia/nitrite spikes. > > Do you have live plants in the main tank? > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles > referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically > under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) > > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] > On Behalf Of Carolyn Nagle > Sent: Tuesday, August 11, 2009 12:58 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Need help with leaking aquarium > > I am not sure what it is called, but there is a "box" built into the > back corner where the water flows over the top and goes to another > tank in the bottom of the stand. That tank is filled with the > filtering material and then pumped back up into tank. Probably not > the best way to explain it, but you can see why it is impossible to > run it. I do have a smaller filter currently running inside the tank. The fish seem to be doing fine for now. > > Thanks for all the advise. > > Carolyn > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" > <GoldLenny@> > wrote: > > > > Well, there's no reason to junk it. A new one would cost you a LOT > > of money for something that can be fixed. > > > > You need to keep your filter going though. If you do not keep it > > going, you will have major cycling issues. > > > > What kind do you have? > > > > You can get a piece of clear hose (make sure it's marked for Potable > > water) and slide it on to the intake tube to extend it down into the > > water if that is the problem. If it doesn't have enough power to > > lift the water, or if it's an HOB (hang on back), maybe you can rig > > up something like a bending a clothes hanger or something to allow > > the filter to hang down inside the tank. Just make sure it's secure > > so the filter doesn't fall off into the water and maybe wrap the > > motor in a plastic baggy and tape the baggy to the plastic reservoir > > housing to prevent splashing water from getting onto the motor. > > > > If there is no way to do this, then every hour, pour several large > > cups of water through the reservoir to keep the filter media at > > least partially cycled but it would be best to keep it running full time. > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles > > referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, > > alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] > > On Behalf Of Carolyn Nagle > > Sent: Tuesday, August 11, 2009 10:50 AM > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Need help with leaking aquarium > > > > Thanks for the links. This is an older "custom made" aquarium that > > has a very heavy wooden cover hinged on the back and I am pretty > > sure I tweaked it a couple days ago when I lifted it. I should > > probably just junk it, but I really like the custom stand and top. > > :-) > > > > We will see how well it seals. I did get the water level down and > > the fish seem to be doing OK right now. Just can't use the filter... > > > > > > > > > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" > > <GoldLenny@> > > wrote: > > > > > > The top question on this page has the same problem as yours and I > > > think the answer is probably the only one that I would give as well. > > > > > > http://www.wetwebmedia.com/aqrepairfaqs.htm > > > > > > This article gives similar step-by-step instructions. > > > > > > http://saltaquarium.about.com/cs/aquariumdiy/ht/htrepairsmleaks.ht > > > m > > > > > > Here's an article on doing a complete job. > > > > > > http://www.aquamaniacs.net/forum/cms_view_article.php?aid=107 > > > > > > You could also buy a Sterilite or Rubbermaid type storage box as a > > > temporary holding tank for your fish, filter system, plants, a > > > bowl of gravel, etc., while you do the repair. > > > > > > How old is this aquarium? Is it on a stabile stand? Was it moved > > > recently where it might have been *twisted* or something like that? > > > The reason I ask is that leaks do not normally just happen out of > > > the blue > > like this. > > > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles > > > referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, > > > alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, > > > Month) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] > > > On Behalf Of Carolyn Nagle > > > Sent: Tuesday, August 11, 2009 9:30 AM > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > > Subject: [AquaticLife] Need help with leaking aquarium > > > > > > My 70 gallon tank has "sprung" a small leak in one of the corner > > > seams. It is about 1/2 way up and since I don't have another > > > aquarium available at the moment I was wondering if I could so > > > something on the outside to stop the leak until I can get another > > > one set up for these fish. Then I think I need to empty this one > > > and re-do the joints on the inside. What would the easiest "quick fix" > be? > > > > > > Hope someone can help. > > > > > > Carolyn in Illinois

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 42671	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 8/11/2009
Subject: Re: siamese fish

It's best to only do more frequent 25% to 35% PWC's instead of 100% water changes as a 100% water change would likely be changing the water parameters (temperature, pH, etc.) more than is recommended. Do you have actual sand or gravel in the bottom? How big is the "bowl" as far as volume? A gallon, more or less? If you do have sand, then you can't vacuum it like you would gravel as most gravel vacuums would suck up the actual sand along with the water so you would have to hold the siphon tube a little above the sand and use a separate stick to stir up any fish poop or detritus so the siphon tube could then suck it up. If you have your Betta (species name - Betta splendens) and I'm presuming this is what you have since they are sometimes referred to as Siamese Fighting Fish, in a one gallon or less container, without a filter system, you should probably aim for 2-3 25% PWC's each week instead of just doing one a week. Also if you can get a live plant, even a few stalks of Anacharis weighted down, that would help a lot with keeping the water in better shape in between your 2-3 PWC's each week. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of caroline Sent: Tuesday, August 11, 2009 1:37 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] siamese fish do you empty the entire bowl..stirring up the sand..then put in new water..or just vaccum the sand.. thank you..

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 42672	From: Dora Smith	Date: 8/11/2009
Subject: Re: siamese fish

Well, I use gravel - it's easier to separate the poop from the gravel by stirring long enough to dump out the water. Yours, Dora Smith Austin, TX tiggernut24@... ----- Original Message ----- From: "caroline" <waves02@...> To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Tuesday, August 11, 2009 1:37 PM Subject: [AquaticLife] siamese fish do you empty the entire bowl..stirring up the sand..then put in new water..or just vaccum the sand.. thank you.. ------------------------------------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the home page. Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com to receive the digest, which includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com for the No E-Mail option where you will still be able to read messages on the group and post replies. Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com to receive individual e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 42673	From: caroline	Date: 8/11/2009
Subject: Re: siamese fish

gotcha....................am heading for the 25. water change.. you sure can get attached to the little guy.. caroline >It's best to only do more frequent 25% to 35% PWC's instead of 100% water >changes as a 100% water change would likely be changing the water parameters >(temperature, pH, etc.) more than is recommended. > >Do you have actual sand or gravel in the bottom? How big is the "bowl" as >far as volume? A gallon, more or less? > >If you do have sand, then you can't vacuum it like you would gravel as most >gravel vacuums would suck up the actual sand along with the water so you >would have to hold the siphon tube a little above the sand and use a >separate stick to stir up any fish poop or detritus so the siphon tube could >then suck it up. > >If you have your Betta (species name - Betta splendens) and I'm presuming >this is what you have since they are sometimes referred to as Siamese >Fighting Fish, in a one gallon or less container, without a filter system, >you should probably aim for 2-3 25% PWC's each week instead of just doing >one a week. Also if you can get a live plant, even a few stalks of >Anacharis weighted down, that would help a lot with keeping the water in >better shape in between your 2-3 PWC's each week. > >Lenny Vasbinder >Fish Blog - <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com >(Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right >side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) > >-----Original Message----- >From: ><mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com >[mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On >Behalf Of caroline >Sent: Tuesday, August 11, 2009 1:37 PM >To: <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com >Subject: [AquaticLife] siamese fish > >do you empty the entire bowl..stirring up the sand..then put in new >water..or just vaccum the sand.. thank you.. > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 42674	From: Courtland Jacob	Date: 8/11/2009
Subject: Re: shells

i can get them to start out and work on finding more to give them options --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@...> wrote: > > I would imagine the ones at the grocery store are probably assured of being > clean and sanitized since they are being sold to folks to be used as food > items. > > One of the other links I sent, the CichlidBreeding shows the actual native > snail shells (the top ad) that the fish are used to in the wild but from all > I've read, as long as you provide an assortment of sizes of shells, the fish > will be happy as long as they can find a shell that is the right size for > what they want as a home. > > Maybe Donna or other shellie keepers will chime in with more details. The > Escargot shells are at least lighter shells so the fish can move them around > easier, compared to a conch shell or other heavy shell. > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right > side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) > > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On > Behalf Of Courtland Jacob > Sent: Tuesday, August 11, 2009 1:34 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: shells > > yeah i know i can find them at the grocery store, as long as they are safe > to use i'll use those > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@> > wrote: > > > > Craft stores would sell them but you can also find them on eBay. > > Here's one ad for 10 shells for $2.99 and only $2.75 shipping. > > > > > http://cgi.ebay.com/10-STRIPED-EYE-SHELLS-Cichlids-hermit-crabs_W0QQitemZ250 > 457560099QQcmdZViewItemQQptZLH_DefaultDomain_0?hash=item3a506f1423&_trksid=p > 3286.m20.l1116 > > > > You can search Cichlid Shells to find the above link or search Sea > > Shells to find many others. > > > > You can also find Escargot shells at some grocery stores. > > > > Here's a link I found on a Cichlid Breeding site with different shells > > for sale. > > http://www.cichlidbreeding.com/products.php?cat=10 > > > > Just make sure you clean and sterilize them first. > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles > > referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically > > under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] > > On Behalf Of Courtland Jacob > > Sent: Tuesday, August 11, 2009 12:19 PM > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > Subject: [AquaticLife] shells > > > > where do you find shells for shellies? i thought i saw a container > > with some at petsmart, but maybe it was just the grocery store that i > > saw them, would those work? >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 42675	From: ironsidem	Date: 8/11/2009
Subject: Re: siamese fish

--- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, caroline <waves02@...> wrote: > > do you empty the entire bowl..stirring up the sand..then put in new > water..or just vaccum the sand.. thank you.. > I use gravel for my fish. I think with sand, it would be easier to see the poops as they wouldn't drop down through. I siphon the water out with tubing, don't even have to net my fish out. When the water level is low enough, I take my sponge and clean the sides, rinsing it after each swipe. Just go to local hardware store, plumbing section, and find different sizes and lengths of clear tubing. If you get small diameter tubing, it is easier to control what and how much is getting siphoned out. Michelle

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 42676	From: Gail	Date: 8/11/2009
Subject: Snail behavior - cont

So before I suspected my snails were mating, now suddenly the snail that I thought that was female... is now gone! It's foot was on the bottom of the tank, and the shell up side down, and the shell - was empty! I went to check my other tank, and check on another snail that I had purchased at the same time as the other two... it was also empty. What gives? Or is this the natural circle of Snail life? thanks, Gail

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 42677	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 8/11/2009
Subject: Re: Snail behavior - cont

Were these Mystery Snails or some other species? Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Gail Sent: Tuesday, August 11, 2009 5:58 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Snail behavior - cont So before I suspected my snails were mating, now suddenly the snail that I thought that was female... is now gone! It's foot was on the bottom of the tank, and the shell up side down, and the shell - was empty! I went to check my other tank, and check on another snail that I had purchased at the same time as the other two... it was also empty. What gives? Or is this the natural circle of Snail life? thanks, Gail

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 42678	From: sevenspringss@wmconnect.com	Date: 8/11/2009
Subject: Re: shells

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 42679	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 8/11/2009
Subject: Re: Snail behavior - cont

They will die if the water parameters are not good enough for them, and Lenny she said they were mystery snails about a month ago I think ;) LOL What is your tank parameters? What is your pH, water hardness (KH and GH), these are the main concerns for apple snails. Also what temp do you keep your tank at? The higher your temperature is kept the faster snails live (and die), so if it's over 80, they might have gone through their life span, but I think something else in your tank was bothering them. Amber Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > > > Were these Mystery Snails or some other species? > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right > side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On > Behalf Of Gail > Sent: Tuesday, August 11, 2009 5:58 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Subject: [AquaticLife] Snail behavior - cont > > So before I suspected my snails were mating, now suddenly the snail that I > thought that was female... is now gone! > It's foot was on the bottom of the tank, and the shell up side down, > and the > shell - was empty! I went to check my other tank, and check on another > snail > that I had purchased at the same time as the other two... it was also > empty. > > What gives? Or is this the natural circle of Snail life? > > thanks, > Gail > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 42680	From: Deenerz@aol.com	Date: 8/11/2009
Subject: Re: shells

Escargot shells work fine. -Mike -----Original Message----- From: Courtland Jacob <courtland_jacob@...> To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Tue, Aug 11, 2009 10:18 am Subject: [AquaticLife] shells where do you find shells for shellies? i thought i saw a container with some at petsmart, but maybe it was just the grocery store that i saw them, would those work? [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 42681	From: Deenerz@aol.com	Date: 8/11/2009
Subject: Re: shells

Hi Lenny, I used to keep shellies and used the escargot shells. They work just fine however one time I noted the shells were disintegrating which clued me into the water not having enough calcium(?) so I switched to coral substrate and the shell disintegration slowed. First time shellie keepers beware! Sometimes eager males will cover shells they think are empty and will trap a female! Some people drill a small hole in their shells to make sure there is no trapped air. If you do not drill holes just make sure when you put the shells in the tank to rotate them in a manner to get all the air out. Unused shells can also become repositories for mulm and detritus. Boy does it smell great when it is disturbed! You can always pick up the unused shells and use a bucket of tank water to rinse them. Just make darn sure to get the air out when putting them back in the tank as their may still be a fish in the shell! -Mike -----Original Message----- From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@...> To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Tue, Aug 11, 2009 12:54 pm Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: shells I would imagine the ones at the grocery store are probably assured of being clean and sanitized since they are being sold to folks to be used as food items. One of the other links I sent, the CichlidBreeding shows the actual native snail shells (the top ad) that the fish are used to in the wild but from all I've read, as long as you prov ide an assortment of sizes of shells, the fish will be happy as long as they can find a shell that is the right size for what they want as a home. Maybe Donna or other shellie keepers will chime in with more details. The Escargot shells are at least lighter shells so the fish can move them around easier, compared to a conch shell or other heavy shell. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Courtland Jacob Sent: Tuesday, August 11, 2009 1:34 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: shells yeah i know i can find them at the grocery store, as long as they are safe to use i'll use those --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@...> wrote: > > Craft stores would sell them but you can also find them on eBay. > Here's one ad for 10 shells for $2.99 and only $2.75 shipping. > > http://cgi.ebay.com/10-STRIPED-EYE-SHELLS-Cichlids-hermit-crabs_W0QQitemZ250 457560099QQcmdZViewItemQQptZLH_DefaultDomain_0?hash=item3a506f1423&_trksid=p 3286.m20.l1116 > > You can search Cichlid Shells to find the above link or search Sea > Shells to find many others. > > You can also find Escargot shells at some grocery stores. > > Here's a link I found on a Cichlid Breeding site with different shells > for sale.0A> http://www.cichlidbreeding.com/products.php?cat=10 > > Just make sure you clean and sterilize them first. > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles > referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically > under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) > > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] > On Behalf Of Courtland Jacob > Sent: Tuesday, August 11, 2009 12:19 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Subject: [AquaticLife] shells > > where do you find shells for shellies? i thought i saw a container > with some at petsmart, but maybe it was just the grocery store that i > saw them, would those work? [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 42682	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 8/11/2009
Subject: Re: Snail behavior - cont

Sorry Amber but I help out in several forums. I quit trying to remember what each of thousands of different people have a long time ago. :-P If they are/were Mystery Snails, then the next questions would be hold old were they? Mystery snails live for only a few years. Water parameter test results? Are they being fed enough... and enough calcium in their diets? Are there any fish in the tanks that like Escargot snacks? What dechlor product is used? Any other chemicals besides a dechlor product that also treats heavy metals? Water source information? Etc., etc. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Amber Berglund Sent: Tuesday, August 11, 2009 7:41 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Snail behavior - cont They will die if the water parameters are not good enough for them, and Lenny she said they were mystery snails about a month ago I think ;) LOL What is your tank parameters? What is your pH, water hardness (KH and GH), these are the main concerns for apple snails. Also what temp do you keep your tank at? The higher your temperature is kept the faster snails live (and die), so if it's over 80, they might have gone through their life span, but I think something else in your tank was bothering them. Amber Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > > > Were these Mystery Snails or some other species? > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> (Links to any articles referenced in > above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels > and also under Archives by Year, Month) > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On Behalf Of Gail > Sent: Tuesday, August 11, 2009 5:58 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Subject: [AquaticLife] Snail behavior - cont > > So before I suspected my snails were mating, now suddenly the snail > that I thought that was female... is now gone! > It's foot was on the bottom of the tank, and the shell up side down, > and the shell - was empty! I went to check my other tank, and check on > another snail that I had purchased at the same time as the other > two... it was also empty. > > What gives? Or is this the natural circle of Snail life? > > thanks, > Gail

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 42683	From: Donna Ransome	Date: 8/11/2009
Subject: Re: shells

You have to be careful you don't get the cone shaped shells (think conch) because the shellies can dart in, get stuck and die. Wide opening, narrowing down to zero almost immediately instead of a gradually narrowing opening. _____ From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Lenny V. aka GoldLenny Sent: Tuesday, August 11, 2009 2:04 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] shells Craft stores would sell them but you can also find them on eBay. Here's one ad for 10 shells for $2.99 and only $2.75 shipping. http://cgi.ebay. <http://cgi.ebay.com/10-STRIPED-EYE-SHELLS-Cichlids-hermit-crabs_W0QQitemZ25 0> com/10-STRIPED-EYE-SHELLS-Cichlids-hermit-crabs_W0QQitemZ250 457560099QQcmdZViewItemQQptZLH_DefaultDomain_0?hash=item3a506f1423&_trksid=p 3286.m20.l1116 You can search Cichlid Shells to find the above link or search Sea Shells to find many others. You can also find Escargot shells at some grocery stores. Here's a link I found on a Cichlid Breeding site with different shells for sale. http://www.cichlidb <http://www.cichlidbreeding.com/products.php?cat=10> reeding.com/products.php?cat=10 Just make sure you clean and sterilize them first. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Courtland Jacob Sent: Tuesday, August 11, 2009 12:19 PM To: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] shells where do you find shells for shellies? i thought i saw a container with some at petsmart, but maybe it was just the grocery store that i saw them, would those work? [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 42684	From: Donna Ransome	Date: 8/11/2009
Subject: Re: shells

You got it Lenny! _____ From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Lenny V. aka GoldLenny Sent: Tuesday, August 11, 2009 3:54 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: shells I would imagine the ones at the grocery store are probably assured of being clean and sanitized since they are being sold to folks to be used as food items. One of the other links I sent, the CichlidBreeding shows the actual native snail shells (the top ad) that the fish are used to in the wild but from all I've read, as long as you provide an assortment of sizes of shells, the fish will be happy as long as they can find a shell that is the right size for what they want as a home. Maybe Donna or other shellie keepers will chime in with more details. The Escargot shells are at least lighter shells so the fish can move them around easier, compared to a conch shell or other heavy shell. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Courtland Jacob Sent: Tuesday, August 11, 2009 1:34 PM To: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: shells yeah i know i can find them at the grocery store, as long as they are safe to use i'll use those --- In AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com, "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@...> wrote: > > Craft stores would sell them but you can also find them on eBay. > Here's one ad for 10 shells for $2.99 and only $2.75 shipping. > > http://cgi.ebay. <http://cgi.ebay.com/10-STRIPED-EYE-SHELLS-Cichlids-hermit-crabs_W0QQitemZ25 0> com/10-STRIPED-EYE-SHELLS-Cichlids-hermit-crabs_W0QQitemZ250 457560099QQcmdZViewItemQQptZLH_DefaultDomain_0?hash=item3a506f1423&_trksid=p 3286.m20.l1116 > > You can search Cichlid Shells to find the above link or search Sea > Shells to find many others. > > You can also find Escargot shells at some grocery stores. > > Here's a link I found on a Cichlid Breeding site with different shells > for sale. > http://www.cichlidb <http://www.cichlidbreeding.com/products.php?cat=10> reeding.com/products.php?cat=10 > > Just make sure you clean and sterilize them first. > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> blogspot.com (Links to any articles > referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically > under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) > > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com] > On Behalf Of Courtland Jacob > Sent: Tuesday, August 11, 2009 12:19 PM > To: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com > Subject: [AquaticLife] shells > > where do you find shells for shellies? i thought i saw a container > with some at petsmart, but maybe it was just the grocery store that i > saw them, would those work? [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 42685	From: Donna Ransome	Date: 8/11/2009
Subject: Re: shells

Escargot shells work, and whale eye marine shells. Here is a link if you want to buy online: http://www.cichlidbreeding.com/products.php?cat=10 _____ From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Courtland Jacob Sent: Tuesday, August 11, 2009 1:19 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] shells where do you find shells for shellies? i thought i saw a container with some at petsmart, but maybe it was just the grocery store that i saw them, would those work? [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 42686	From: Donna Ransome	Date: 8/11/2009
Subject: Re: Snail behavior - cont

Someone had a snack! _____ From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Gail Sent: Tuesday, August 11, 2009 6:58 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Snail behavior - cont So before I suspected my snails were mating, now suddenly the snail that I thought that was female... is now gone! It's foot was on the bottom of the tank, and the shell up side down, and the shell - was empty! I went to check my other tank, and check on another snail that I had purchased at the same time as the other two... it was also empty. What gives? Or is this the natural circle of Snail life? thanks, Gail [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 42687	From: Donna Ransome	Date: 8/11/2009
Subject: Re: shells

Yes, if I pick up the shells in my tank and put them in a bucket,all kinds of fish will swim out later. Had a calvus scare the heck out of me when I removed a larger shell for algae removal. _____ From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Deenerz@... Sent: Tuesday, August 11, 2009 9:00 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: shells Hi Lenny, I used to keep shellies and used the escargot shells. They work just fine however one time I noted the shells were disintegrating which clued me into the water not having enough calcium(?) so I switched to coral substrate and the shell disintegration slowed. First time shellie keepers beware! Sometimes eager males will cover shells they think are empty and will trap a female! Some people drill a small hole in their shells to make sure there is no trapped air. If you do not drill holes just make sure when you put the shells in the tank to rotate them in a manner to get all the air out. Unused shells can also become repositories for mulm and detritus. Boy does it smell great when it is disturbed! You can always pick up the unused shells and use a bucket of tank water to rinse them. Just make darn sure to get the air out when putting them back in the tank as their may still be a fish in the shell! -Mike -----Original Message----- From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@gmail. <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com> com> To: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com Sent: Tue, Aug 11, 2009 12:54 pm Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: shells I would imagine the ones at the grocery store are probably assured of being clean and sanitized since they are being sold to folks to be used as food items. One of the other links I sent, the CichlidBreeding shows the actual native snail shells (the top ad) that the fish are used to in the wild but from all I've read, as long as you prov ide an assortment of sizes of shells, the fish will be happy as long as they can find a shell that is the right size for what they want as a home. Maybe Donna or other shellie keepers will chime in with more details. The Escargot shells are at least lighter shells so the fish can move them around easier, compared to a conch shell or other heavy shell. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Courtland Jacob Sent: Tuesday, August 11, 2009 1:34 PM To: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: shells yeah i know i can find them at the grocery store, as long as they are safe to use i'll use those --- In AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com, "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@...> wrote: > > Craft stores would sell them but you can also find them on eBay. > Here's one ad for 10 shells for $2.99 and only $2.75 shipping. > > http://cgi.ebay. <http://cgi.ebay.com/10-STRIPED-EYE-SHELLS-Cichlids-hermit-crabs_W0QQitemZ25 0> com/10-STRIPED-EYE-SHELLS-Cichlids-hermit-crabs_W0QQitemZ250 457560099QQcmdZViewItemQQptZLH_DefaultDomain_0?hash=item3a506f1423&_trksid=p 3286.m20.l1116 > > You can search Cichlid Shells to find the above link or search Sea > Shells to find many others. > > You can also find Escargot shells at some grocery stores. > > Here's a link I found on a Cichlid Breeding site with different shells > for sale.0A> http://www.cichlidb <http://www.cichlidbreeding.com/products.php?cat=10> reeding.com/products.php?cat=10 > > Just make sure you clean and sterilize them first. > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> blogspot.com (Links to any articles > referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically > under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) > > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com] > On Behalf Of Courtland Jacob > Sent: Tuesday, August 11, 2009 12:19 PM > To: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com > Subject: [AquaticLife] shells > > where do you find shells for shellies? i thought i saw a container > with some at petsmart, but maybe it was just the grocery store that i > saw them, would those work? [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 42688	From: Gail	Date: 8/12/2009
Subject: Re: Snail behavior - cont

yes, these were Mystery snails that I bought at Petsmart a few months ago. -gail --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@...> wrote: > > Were these Mystery Snails or some other species? > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right > side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) > > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On > Behalf Of Gail > Sent: Tuesday, August 11, 2009 5:58 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Subject: [AquaticLife] Snail behavior - cont > > So before I suspected my snails were mating, now suddenly the snail that I > thought that was female... is now gone! > It's foot was on the bottom of the tank, and the shell up side down, and the > shell - was empty! I went to check my other tank, and check on another snail > that I had purchased at the same time as the other two... it was also empty. > > > What gives? Or is this the natural circle of Snail life? > > thanks, > Gail >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 42689	From: Gail	Date: 8/12/2009
Subject: Re: Snail behavior - cont

the tanks are well taken care of. They are clean, with the exception of some algae - I like to leave some algae for them to work on. My water perameters are good. The tank stays around 75 degrees, and the one Black mystery snail, that lives in the same tank... he is thriving and getting huge!! Maybe this is some form of natural selection? As for fish that eat Escargot... I don't know who that would be. The one tank has two rosy barbs and a gourami. And the other tank with the deceased snail, wait! I think it was my pictus cat fish, who ate him??? Maybe that was it. Don't they eat whatever will fit in their mouth? Ugh. Oh well, you win some and you lose some. -gail --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@...> wrote: > > Sorry Amber but I help out in several forums. I quit trying to remember > what each of thousands of different people have a long time ago. :-P > > If they are/were Mystery Snails, then the next questions would be hold old > were they? Mystery snails live for only a few years. Water parameter test > results? Are they being fed enough... and enough calcium in their diets? > Are there any fish in the tanks that like Escargot snacks? What dechlor > product is used? Any other chemicals besides a dechlor product that also > treats heavy metals? Water source information? Etc., etc. > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right > side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On > Behalf Of Amber Berglund > Sent: Tuesday, August 11, 2009 7:41 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Snail behavior - cont > > They will die if the water parameters are not good enough for them, and > Lenny she said they were mystery snails about a month ago I think ;) LOL > What is your tank parameters? > What is your pH, water hardness (KH and GH), these are the main concerns for > apple snails. Also what temp do you keep your tank at? > The higher your temperature is kept the faster snails live (and die), so if > it's over 80, they might have gone through their life span, but I think > something else in your tank was bothering them. > > Amber > > Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > > > > > > Were these Mystery Snails or some other species? > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> (Links to any articles referenced in > > above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels > > and also under Archives by Year, Month) > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On Behalf Of Gail > > Sent: Tuesday, August 11, 2009 5:58 PM > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > Subject: [AquaticLife] Snail behavior - cont > > > > So before I suspected my snails were mating, now suddenly the snail > > that I thought that was female... is now gone! > > It's foot was on the bottom of the tank, and the shell up side down, > > and the shell - was empty! I went to check my other tank, and check on > > another snail that I had purchased at the same time as the other > > two... it was also empty. > > > > What gives? Or is this the natural circle of Snail life? > > > > thanks, > > Gail >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 42690	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 8/12/2009
Subject: Re: Snail behavior - cont

It's very hard for fish to get at a snail, they have a protective shell, when they are babies they are vulnerable though. Your mystery snails probably died due to something else. Do you feed them anything? They don't eat very much algae (and the apple snail forums say they don't eat algae at all, but I have witnessed them eating hair algae in person). They mostly eat dead plant matter and left over food (dead and decaying animals). So if you aren't feeding them anything other than the algae on your tank and the rest of your fish are eating all the food they could have starved to death possibly. Does your tap water have copper in it? Did you recently use any medications with copper in it? Copper will kill a snail very quickly too. Your big black mystery snail is finding extra food somewhere or that tank has better GH and KH somehow, do you have any decorations in your tanks that have some form of calcium in them? Shells, coral, etc.? Do you know what your tapwater parameters are? Snails thrive in a pH over 7 and a higher GH and KH than most fish prefer, or their shells will soften or corrode without enough calcium. Amber Gail wrote: > > > the tanks are well taken care of. They are clean, with the exception > of some algae - I like to leave some algae for them to work on. My > water perameters are good. The tank stays around 75 degrees, and the > one Black mystery snail, that lives in the same tank... he is thriving > and getting huge!! Maybe this is some form of natural selection? > As for fish that eat Escargot... I don't know who that would be. The > one tank has two rosy barbs and a gourami. And the other tank with the > deceased snail, wait! I think it was my pictus cat fish, who ate > him??? Maybe that was it. Don't they eat whatever will fit in their > mouth? Ugh. > > Oh well, you win some and you lose some. > > -gail > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>, "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" > <GoldLenny@...> wrote: > > > > Sorry Amber but I help out in several forums. I quit trying to remember > > what each of thousands of different people have a long time ago. :-P > > > > If they are/were Mystery Snails, then the next questions would be > hold old > > were they? Mystery snails live for only a few years. Water parameter > test > > results? Are they being fed enough... and enough calcium in their diets? > > Are there any fish in the tanks that like Escargot snacks? What dechlor > > product is used? Any other chemicals besides a dechlor product that also > > treats heavy metals? Water source information? Etc., etc. > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right > > side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, > Month) > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On > > Behalf Of Amber Berglund > > Sent: Tuesday, August 11, 2009 7:41 PM > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Snail behavior - cont > > > > They will die if the water parameters are not good enough for them, and > > Lenny she said they were mystery snails about a month ago I think ;) LOL > > What is your tank parameters? > > What is your pH, water hardness (KH and GH), these are the main > concerns for > > apple snails. Also what temp do you keep your tank at? > > The higher your temperature is kept the faster snails live (and > die), so if > > it's over 80, they might have gone through their life span, but I think > > something else in your tank was bothering them. > > > > Amber > > > > Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > > > > > > > > > Were these Mystery Snails or some other species? > > > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>> > (Links to any articles referenced in > > > above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels > > > and also under Archives by Year, Month) > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On Behalf Of Gail > > > Sent: Tuesday, August 11, 2009 5:58 PM > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > Subject: [AquaticLife] Snail behavior - cont > > > > > > So before I suspected my snails were mating, now suddenly the snail > > > that I thought that was female... is now gone! > > > It's foot was on the bottom of the tank, and the shell up side down, > > > and the shell - was empty! I went to check my other tank, and > check on > > > another snail that I had purchased at the same time as the other > > > two... it was also empty. > > > > > > What gives? Or is this the natural circle of Snail life? > > > > > > thanks, > > > Gail > > > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 42691	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 8/12/2009
Subject: Re: Snail behavior - cont

Also Gail this might help, go straight to the apple snail forums and post there if you have snail issues, they deal with snail only problems on their forums, but they do have other topics you can discuss that include plants/fish ;) But it's mostly for apple snails (any variety). www.applesnail.net Click on Discussions on the left side bar, that's where the forums are located. I usually post there first when I have snail issues before I come to AquaticLife (sorry guys, LOL), it's just a quicker response because not everyone in this group has a lot of info on apple snails, but that forum is made for it. Hope this helps you out Gail :) Amber Gail wrote: > > > the tanks are well taken care of. They are clean, with the exception > of some algae - I like to leave some algae for them to work on. My > water perameters are good. The tank stays around 75 degrees, and the > one Black mystery snail, that lives in the same tank... he is thriving > and getting huge!! Maybe this is some form of natural selection? > As for fish that eat Escargot... I don't know who that would be. The > one tank has two rosy barbs and a gourami. And the other tank with the > deceased snail, wait! I think it was my pictus cat fish, who ate > him??? Maybe that was it. Don't they eat whatever will fit in their > mouth? Ugh. > > Oh well, you win some and you lose some. > > -gail > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>, "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" > <GoldLenny@...> wrote: > > > > Sorry Amber but I help out in several forums. I quit trying to remember > > what each of thousands of different people have a long time ago. :-P > > > > If they are/were Mystery Snails, then the next questions would be > hold old > > were they? Mystery snails live for only a few years. Water parameter > test > > results? Are they being fed enough... and enough calcium in their diets? > > Are there any fish in the tanks that like Escargot snacks? What dechlor > > product is used? Any other chemicals besides a dechlor product that also > > treats heavy metals? Water source information? Etc., etc. > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right > > side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, > Month) > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On > > Behalf Of Amber Berglund > > Sent: Tuesday, August 11, 2009 7:41 PM > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Snail behavior - cont > > > > They will die if the water parameters are not good enough for them, and > > Lenny she said they were mystery snails about a month ago I think ;) LOL > > What is your tank parameters? > > What is your pH, water hardness (KH and GH), these are the main > concerns for > > apple snails. Also what temp do you keep your tank at? > > The higher your temperature is kept the faster snails live (and > die), so if > > it's over 80, they might have gone through their life span, but I think > > something else in your tank was bothering them. > > > > Amber > > > > Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > > > > > > > > > Were these Mystery Snails or some other species? > > > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>> > (Links to any articles referenced in > > > above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels > > > and also under Archives by Year, Month) > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On Behalf Of Gail > > > Sent: Tuesday, August 11, 2009 5:58 PM > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > Subject: [AquaticLife] Snail behavior - cont > > > > > > So before I suspected my snails were mating, now suddenly the snail > > > that I thought that was female... is now gone! > > > It's foot was on the bottom of the tank, and the shell up side down, > > > and the shell - was empty! I went to check my other tank, and > check on > > > another snail that I had purchased at the same time as the other > > > two... it was also empty. > > > > > > What gives? Or is this the natural circle of Snail life? > > > > > > thanks, > > > Gail > > > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 42692	From: Carolyn Nagle	Date: 8/12/2009
Subject: Good news (I think) on leaking tank

Well, it doesn't look too good, but I got the leak stopped with a big "blob" of silicone sealent on the outside and I have decided to get my 55 gallon set up and transfer everyone so I can tear the 70 gallon completely down and re-seal all the corners. Thanks for the help and wish me luck? Carolyn in Illinois

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 42693	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 8/12/2009
Subject: Re: Snail behavior - cont

I'm not sure if the Pictus catfish would eat the snail out of it's shell or if it would just swallow the thing whole. Certain fish, like some loaches, will actually suck the snail out of it's shell. I haven't heard/read where a Pictus catfish is known to do this. I guess if the Pictus isn't getting enough other food, then anything is possible. Was he getting enough food? Do you have your actual water test results in numbers? "Good" is so subjective as what might be good for one fish isn't good for another fish (or snail). Since you have another snail in the same tank where one died, then it's probably not water parameters, chemicals or pollutants but I'm sure, like with fish and people, some individual snails may be more susceptible to certain things than other snails so seeing the actual numbers can possibly help us to confirm or eliminate a possible problem. See all of the other questions that I posed in my earlier reply below. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Gail Sent: Wednesday, August 12, 2009 9:23 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Snail behavior - cont the tanks are well taken care of. They are clean, with the exception of some algae - I like to leave some algae for them to work on. My water perameters are good. The tank stays around 75 degrees, and the one Black mystery snail, that lives in the same tank... he is thriving and getting huge!! Maybe this is some form of natural selection? As for fish that eat Escargot... I don't know who that would be. The one tank has two rosy barbs and a gourami. And the other tank with the deceased snail, wait! I think it was my pictus cat fish, who ate him??? Maybe that was it. Don't they eat whatever will fit in their mouth? Ugh. Oh well, you win some and you lose some. -gail --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@...> wrote: > > Sorry Amber but I help out in several forums. I quit trying to > remember what each of thousands of different people have a long time > ago. :-P > > If they are/were Mystery Snails, then the next questions would be hold > old were they? Mystery snails live for only a few years. Water > parameter test results? Are they being fed enough... and enough calcium in their diets? > Are there any fish in the tanks that like Escargot snacks? What > dechlor product is used? Any other chemicals besides a dechlor > product that also treats heavy metals? Water source information? Etc., etc. > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles > referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically > under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] > On Behalf Of Amber Berglund > Sent: Tuesday, August 11, 2009 7:41 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Snail behavior - cont > > They will die if the water parameters are not good enough for them, > and Lenny she said they were mystery snails about a month ago I think > ;) LOL What is your tank parameters? > What is your pH, water hardness (KH and GH), these are the main > concerns for apple snails. Also what temp do you keep your tank at? > The higher your temperature is kept the faster snails live (and die), > so if it's over 80, they might have gone through their life span, but > I think something else in your tank was bothering them. > > Amber > > Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > > > > > > Were these Mystery Snails or some other species? > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> (Links to any articles referenced in > > above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under > > Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On Behalf Of Gail > > Sent: Tuesday, August 11, 2009 5:58 PM > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > Subject: [AquaticLife] Snail behavior - cont > > > > So before I suspected my snails were mating, now suddenly the snail > > that I thought that was female... is now gone! > > It's foot was on the bottom of the tank, and the shell up side down, > > and the shell - was empty! I went to check my other tank, and check > > on another snail that I had purchased at the same time as the other > > two... it was also empty. > > > > What gives? Or is this the natural circle of Snail life? > > > > thanks, > > Gail

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 42694	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 8/12/2009
Subject: Re: Snail behavior - cont

I thought Gail said that her 2 snails in the same tank died, but she has another snail in another tank that is still alive... Was I wrong? LOL Okay Gail time to clear things up ;) Amber Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > > > I'm not sure if the Pictus catfish would eat the snail out of it's > shell or > if it would just swallow the thing whole. Certain fish, like some loaches, > will actually suck the snail out of it's shell. I haven't heard/read where > a Pictus catfish is known to do this. I guess if the Pictus isn't getting > enough other food, then anything is possible. Was he getting enough food? > > Do you have your actual water test results in numbers? "Good" is so > subjective as what might be good for one fish isn't good for another fish > (or snail). Since you have another snail in the same tank where one died, > then it's probably not water parameters, chemicals or pollutants but I'm > sure, like with fish and people, some individual snails may be more > susceptible to certain things than other snails so seeing the actual > numbers > can possibly help us to confirm or eliminate a possible problem. > > See all of the other questions that I posed in my earlier reply below. > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right > side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On > Behalf Of Gail > Sent: Wednesday, August 12, 2009 9:23 AM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Snail behavior - cont > > the tanks are well taken care of. They are clean, with the exception > of some > algae - I like to leave some algae for them to work on. My water > perameters > are good. The tank stays around 75 degrees, and the one Black mystery > snail, > that lives in the same tank... he is thriving and getting huge!! Maybe > this > is some form of natural selection? > As for fish that eat Escargot... I don't know who that would be. The one > tank has two rosy barbs and a gourami. And the other tank with the > deceased > snail, wait! I think it was my pictus cat fish, who ate him??? Maybe that > was it. Don't they eat whatever will fit in their mouth? Ugh. > > Oh well, you win some and you lose some. > > -gail > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>, "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" > <GoldLenny@...> > wrote: > > > > Sorry Amber but I help out in several forums. I quit trying to > > remember what each of thousands of different people have a long time > > ago. :-P > > > > If they are/were Mystery Snails, then the next questions would be hold > > old were they? Mystery snails live for only a few years. Water > > parameter test results? Are they being fed enough... and enough calcium > in their diets? > > Are there any fish in the tanks that like Escargot snacks? What > > dechlor product is used? Any other chemicals besides a dechlor > > product that also treats heavy metals? Water source information? Etc., > etc. > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> (Links to any articles > > referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically > > under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] > > On Behalf Of Amber Berglund > > Sent: Tuesday, August 11, 2009 7:41 PM > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Snail behavior - cont > > > > They will die if the water parameters are not good enough for them, > > and Lenny she said they were mystery snails about a month ago I think > > ;) LOL What is your tank parameters? > > What is your pH, water hardness (KH and GH), these are the main > > concerns for apple snails. Also what temp do you keep your tank at? > > The higher your temperature is kept the faster snails live (and die), > > so if it's over 80, they might have gone through their life span, but > > I think something else in your tank was bothering them. > > > > Amber > > > > Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > > > > > > > > > Were these Mystery Snails or some other species? > > > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>> > (Links to any articles referenced in > > > above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under > > > Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On Behalf Of Gail > > > Sent: Tuesday, August 11, 2009 5:58 PM > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > Subject: [AquaticLife] Snail behavior - cont > > > > > > So before I suspected my snails were mating, now suddenly the snail > > > that I thought that was female... is now gone! > > > It's foot was on the bottom of the tank, and the shell up side down, > > > and the shell - was empty! I went to check my other tank, and check > > > on another snail that I had purchased at the same time as the other > > > two... it was also empty. > > > > > > What gives? Or is this the natural circle of Snail life? > > > > > > thanks, > > > Gail > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 42695	From: Donna Ransome	Date: 8/12/2009
Subject: Re: Snail behavior - cont

Not my fish, LOL! My substrate is littered with shells. _____ From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Amber Berglund Sent: Wednesday, August 12, 2009 11:50 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: Snail behavior - cont It's very hard for fish to get at a snail, they have a protective shell, when they are babies they are vulnerable though. Your mystery snails probably died due to something else. Do you feed them anything? They don't eat very much algae (and the apple snail forums say they don't eat algae at all, but I have witnessed them eating hair algae in person). They mostly eat dead plant matter and left over food (dead and decaying animals). So if you aren't feeding them anything other than the algae on your tank and the rest of your fish are eating all the food they could have starved to death possibly. Does your tap water have copper in it? Did you recently use any medications with copper in it? Copper will kill a snail very quickly too. Your big black mystery snail is finding extra food somewhere or that tank has better GH and KH somehow, do you have any decorations in your tanks that have some form of calcium in them? Shells, coral, etc.? Do you know what your tapwater parameters are? Snails thrive in a pH over 7 and a higher GH and KH than most fish prefer, or their shells will soften or corrode without enough calcium. Amber Gail wrote: > > > the tanks are well taken care of. They are clean, with the exception > of some algae - I like to leave some algae for them to work on. My > water perameters are good. The tank stays around 75 degrees, and the > one Black mystery snail, that lives in the same tank... he is thriving > and getting huge!! Maybe this is some form of natural selection? > As for fish that eat Escargot... I don't know who that would be. The > one tank has two rosy barbs and a gourami. And the other tank with the > deceased snail, wait! I think it was my pictus cat fish, who ate > him??? Maybe that was it. Don't they eat whatever will fit in their > mouth? Ugh. > > Oh well, you win some and you lose some. > > -gail > > --- In AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>, "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" > <GoldLenny@...> wrote: > > > > Sorry Amber but I help out in several forums. I quit trying to remember > > what each of thousands of different people have a long time ago. :-P > > > > If they are/were Mystery Snails, then the next questions would be > hold old > > were they? Mystery snails live for only a few years. Water parameter > test > > results? Are they being fed enough... and enough calcium in their diets? > > Are there any fish in the tanks that like Escargot snacks? What dechlor > > product is used? Any other chemicals besides a dechlor product that also > > treats heavy metals? Water source information? Etc., etc. > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> blogspot.com> > > (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right > > side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, > Month) > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > [mailto:AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On > > Behalf Of Amber Berglund > > Sent: Tuesday, August 11, 2009 7:41 PM > > To: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Snail behavior - cont > > > > They will die if the water parameters are not good enough for them, and > > Lenny she said they were mystery snails about a month ago I think ;) LOL > > What is your tank parameters? > > What is your pH, water hardness (KH and GH), these are the main > concerns for > > apple snails. Also what temp do you keep your tank at? > > The higher your temperature is kept the faster snails live (and > die), so if > > it's over 80, they might have gone through their life span, but I think > > something else in your tank was bothering them. > > > > Amber > > > > Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > > > > > > > > > Were these Mystery Snails or some other species? > > > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> blogspot.com> > > > <http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> blogspot.com>> > (Links to any articles referenced in > > > above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels > > > and also under Archives by Year, Month) > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > From: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > [mailto:AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On Behalf Of Gail > > > Sent: Tuesday, August 11, 2009 5:58 PM > > > To: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > Subject: [AquaticLife] Snail behavior - cont > > > > > > So before I suspected my snails were mating, now suddenly the snail > > > that I thought that was female... is now gone! > > > It's foot was on the bottom of the tank, and the shell up side down, > > > and the shell - was empty! I went to check my other tank, and > check on > > > another snail that I had purchased at the same time as the other > > > two... it was also empty. > > > > > > What gives? Or is this the natural circle of Snail life? > > > > > > thanks, > > > Gail > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 42696	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 8/12/2009
Subject: Re: Snail behavior - cont

No. She said that in one tank and only one of the two snails was dead with the BIG black Mystery Snail still thriving... then she said "...I went to check my other tank and check on another snail I had purchased at the same time..." and it was also only an empty shell. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Amber Berglund Sent: Wednesday, August 12, 2009 6:54 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: Snail behavior - cont I thought Gail said that her 2 snails in the same tank died, but she has another snail in another tank that is still alive... Was I wrong? LOL Okay Gail time to clear things up ;) Amber Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > > > I'm not sure if the Pictus catfish would eat the snail out of it's > shell or if it would just swallow the thing whole. Certain fish, like > some loaches, will actually suck the snail out of it's shell. I > haven't heard/read where a Pictus catfish is known to do this. I guess > if the Pictus isn't getting enough other food, then anything is > possible. Was he getting enough food? > > Do you have your actual water test results in numbers? "Good" is so > subjective as what might be good for one fish isn't good for another > fish (or snail). Since you have another snail in the same tank where > one died, then it's probably not water parameters, chemicals or > pollutants but I'm sure, like with fish and people, some individual > snails may be more susceptible to certain things than other snails so > seeing the actual numbers can possibly help us to confirm or eliminate > a possible problem. > > See all of the other questions that I posed in my earlier reply below. > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> (Links to any articles referenced in > above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels > and also under Archives by Year, Month) > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On Behalf Of Gail > Sent: Wednesday, August 12, 2009 9:23 AM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Snail behavior - cont > > the tanks are well taken care of. They are clean, with the exception > of some algae - I like to leave some algae for them to work on. My > water perameters are good. The tank stays around 75 degrees, and the > one Black mystery snail, that lives in the same tank... he is thriving > and getting huge!! Maybe this is some form of natural selection? > As for fish that eat Escargot... I don't know who that would be. The > one tank has two rosy barbs and a gourami. And the other tank with the > deceased snail, wait! I think it was my pictus cat fish, who ate > him??? Maybe that was it. Don't they eat whatever will fit in their > mouth? Ugh. > > Oh well, you win some and you lose some. > > -gail > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>, "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" > <GoldLenny@...> > wrote: > > > > Sorry Amber but I help out in several forums. I quit trying to > > remember what each of thousands of different people have a long time > > ago. :-P > > > > If they are/were Mystery Snails, then the next questions would be > > hold old were they? Mystery snails live for only a few years. Water > > parameter test results? Are they being fed enough... and enough > > calcium > in their diets? > > Are there any fish in the tanks that like Escargot snacks? What > > dechlor product is used? Any other chemicals besides a dechlor > > product that also treats heavy metals? Water source information? > > Etc., > etc. > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> (Links to any articles > > referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, > > alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] > > On Behalf Of Amber Berglund > > Sent: Tuesday, August 11, 2009 7:41 PM > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Snail behavior - cont > > > > They will die if the water parameters are not good enough for them, > > and Lenny she said they were mystery snails about a month ago I > > think > > ;) LOL What is your tank parameters? > > What is your pH, water hardness (KH and GH), these are the main > > concerns for apple snails. Also what temp do you keep your tank at? > > The higher your temperature is kept the faster snails live (and > > die), so if it's over 80, they might have gone through their life > > span, but I think something else in your tank was bothering them. > > > > Amber > > > > Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > > > > > > > > > Were these Mystery Snails or some other species? > > > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>> > (Links to any articles referenced in > > > above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under > > > Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On Behalf Of Gail > > > Sent: Tuesday, August 11, 2009 5:58 PM > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > Subject: [AquaticLife] Snail behavior - cont > > > > > > So before I suspected my snails were mating, now suddenly the > > > snail that I thought that was female... is now gone! > > > It's foot was on the bottom of the tank, and the shell up side > > > down, and the shell - was empty! I went to check my other tank, > > > and check on another snail that I had purchased at the same time > > > as the other two... it was also empty. > > > > > > What gives? Or is this the natural circle of Snail life? > > > > > > thanks, > > > Gail

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 42697	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 8/12/2009
Subject: Re: Snail behavior - cont

She still hasn't listed her GH, KH, pH or any other tank parameters which we need to figure this out, IMO. I have yet to have ANY fish pick on my snails at all, and usually they don't just crawl out of their shell for a reason, if something bumps them they tend to suck into their shell really quick, trust me I watch them enough ;) LOL. So only something that's VERY persistent at killing bigger snails like apple snails would have any luck, and I don't have any of those fish, even my Severum ignores them. Amber Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > > > No. She said that in one tank and only one of the two snails was dead with > the BIG black Mystery Snail still thriving... then she said "...I went to > check my other tank and check on another snail I had purchased at the same > time..." and it was also only an empty shell. > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right > side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On > Behalf Of Amber Berglund > Sent: Wednesday, August 12, 2009 6:54 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: Snail behavior - cont > > I thought Gail said that her 2 snails in the same tank died, but she has > another snail in another tank that is still alive... Was I wrong? LOL > > Okay Gail time to clear things up ;) > > Amber > > Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > > > > > > I'm not sure if the Pictus catfish would eat the snail out of it's > > shell or if it would just swallow the thing whole. Certain fish, like > > some loaches, will actually suck the snail out of it's shell. I > > haven't heard/read where a Pictus catfish is known to do this. I guess > > if the Pictus isn't getting enough other food, then anything is > > possible. Was he getting enough food? > > > > Do you have your actual water test results in numbers? "Good" is so > > subjective as what might be good for one fish isn't good for another > > fish (or snail). Since you have another snail in the same tank where > > one died, then it's probably not water parameters, chemicals or > > pollutants but I'm sure, like with fish and people, some individual > > snails may be more susceptible to certain things than other snails so > > seeing the actual numbers can possibly help us to confirm or eliminate > > a possible problem. > > > > See all of the other questions that I posed in my earlier reply below. > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>> > (Links to any articles referenced in > > above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels > > and also under Archives by Year, Month) > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On Behalf Of Gail > > Sent: Wednesday, August 12, 2009 9:23 AM > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Snail behavior - cont > > > > the tanks are well taken care of. They are clean, with the exception > > of some algae - I like to leave some algae for them to work on. My > > water perameters are good. The tank stays around 75 degrees, and the > > one Black mystery snail, that lives in the same tank... he is thriving > > and getting huge!! Maybe this is some form of natural selection? > > As for fish that eat Escargot... I don't know who that would be. The > > one tank has two rosy barbs and a gourami. And the other tank with the > > deceased snail, wait! I think it was my pictus cat fish, who ate > > him??? Maybe that was it. Don't they eat whatever will fit in their > > mouth? Ugh. > > > > Oh well, you win some and you lose some. > > > > -gail > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>, "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" > > <GoldLenny@...> > > wrote: > > > > > > Sorry Amber but I help out in several forums. I quit trying to > > > remember what each of thousands of different people have a long time > > > ago. :-P > > > > > > If they are/were Mystery Snails, then the next questions would be > > > hold old were they? Mystery snails live for only a few years. Water > > > parameter test results? Are they being fed enough... and enough > > > calcium > > in their diets? > > > Are there any fish in the tanks that like Escargot snacks? What > > > dechlor product is used? Any other chemicals besides a dechlor > > > product that also treats heavy metals? Water source information? > > > Etc., > > etc. > > > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>> > (Links to any articles > > > referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, > > > alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) > > > > > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] > > > On Behalf Of Amber Berglund > > > Sent: Tuesday, August 11, 2009 7:41 PM > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Snail behavior - cont > > > > > > They will die if the water parameters are not good enough for them, > > > and Lenny she said they were mystery snails about a month ago I > > > think > > > ;) LOL What is your tank parameters? > > > What is your pH, water hardness (KH and GH), these are the main > > > concerns for apple snails. Also what temp do you keep your tank at? > > > The higher your temperature is kept the faster snails live (and > > > die), so if it's over 80, they might have gone through their life > > > span, but I think something else in your tank was bothering them. > > > > > > Amber > > > > > > Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > Were these Mystery Snails or some other species? > > > > > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>> > > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>>> > > (Links to any articles referenced in > > > > above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under > > > > Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On Behalf Of Gail > > > > Sent: Tuesday, August 11, 2009 5:58 PM > > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > Subject: [AquaticLife] Snail behavior - cont > > > > > > > > So before I suspected my snails were mating, now suddenly the > > > > snail that I thought that was female... is now gone! > > > > It's foot was on the bottom of the tank, and the shell up side > > > > down, and the shell - was empty! I went to check my other tank, > > > > and check on another snail that I had purchased at the same time > > > > as the other two... it was also empty. > > > > > > > > What gives? Or is this the natural circle of Snail life? > > > > > > > > thanks, > > > > Gail > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 42698	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 8/12/2009
Subject: Warning to those of you with mystery snails.

If you have your filter intakes uncovered in any way be very careful keeping snails of any kind. When a mystery snail gets trapped on it, the suction pulls them slowly inside and when the blood flow gets cut off they swell up inside the intake filter, so even when you unplug and remove it from the suction they can take several hours for the swelling to go down enough so you can safely remove them from the filter intake. Don't try pulling them off as this can tear their bodies and cause bleeding and kill them. Sometimes you have to help the snail get out, I had one such case this evening and I'm waiting to see if the snail survived the incident. It moved when I touched it after removal from the intake piece so I assume it was still alive, but it didn't have much life in it, no idea how long it was stuck there the poor thing :( I thought the filter was safe but I have found that most of them are not built for snails "feet" and they get easily sucked inside of the slots. So as a warning to all, make sure your intake filters have small short slots, nothing long and skinny or especially wide long slots, if they do cover them in either a sponge, or you can wrap netting you would get from a hardware store around it and use zip ties to secure it (or even rubber bands but they might slowly loose their stretchiness). Just keep in mind these will have to be cleaned either by rubbing the debris off during a water change and sucking them up, or by removing the sponge, etc and rinsing it in removed tank water. Sometimes they will get dirty quickly so keep an eye on them. If you want your snails safe it's a good idea to cover all of your intake's on your filters. Thanks, Amber

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 42699	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 8/12/2009
Subject: Re: Need a link you once gave out

Why didn't you post to the group? No biggie, just curious? I'm gonna forward this reply to the group just to remind folks in the group of these really good links. Was this thing living underwater or above the water line? I found a German cockroach living under the rim of my cherry shrimp tank a while back. I use to keep the water level down a little in that tank since I have a lot of duckweed growing in that tank. I imagine the dang cockroach was able to just walk around on top of the duckweed. Anyhow.. back to your issue. When you say it looked like a cricket... are you talking about an adult cricket or do you know what cricket larvae look like? I'll be honest and admit I've never seen cricket larvae but an adult cricket is pretty easily identified. Anyhow, here's all the links that I have to the various critters that grow in our tanks/ponds and each of these pages have many other links on them since there are obviously so many things that can grow in a tank/pond. On the fourth link below, there's something called a Water Bear which at least fits your description of eight legs but I'm not sure if that is what you have. http://www.caudata.org/cc/articles/Tank_critters.shtml http://web.archive.org/web/20070523055718/http://www.menunkatuck.org/pages/m icro.htm http://web.archive.org/web/20060716164019/http://www.menunkatuck.org/pages/m icro2.htm http://microscopy-uk.org.uk/index.html?http://microscopy-uk.org.uk/pond/inde x.html http://www3.sympatico.ca/drosera1/fish/worms.htm Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: Amber Berglund [mailto:arberglund@...] Sent: Thursday, August 13, 2009 12:36 AM To: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny Subject: Need a link you once gave out Hey I found a "creepy crawly" in one of my tanks (the Angel tank to be precise). I haven't found one in any of my other tanks yet, the only other tank it may be in is my 55 gallon community tank upstairs with all the snails and fry in it (not to mention young cherry shrimp). So I can't exactly so savaging around in it looking for critters that don't belong just yet ;) It looked very similar to a cricket but with spikey protrusions on it's arms/legs. It had 8 legs I think, and more of a spikey abdomen than a cricket (crickets are round and this one looked more like something you'd find hiding under a rock in a desert to me). It was very creepy so I made the hubby squish it, it seemed resistant to squishing as even after he had squished it several times it was still "breathing" and twitching it legs. Perhaps death throws who knows ;) LOL. Anyways I'm trying to identify it and find out if I should be on the lookout for whatever they are (makes me not want to stick my arm in the tank even more now, LOL). I thought I saw you give out a link on identifying other types of aquarium inhabitants besides fish and snails ;) Thanks Amber

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 42700	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 8/12/2009
Subject: Re: Need a link you once gave out

OK. Check the last link and the five links under Insect Larvae, namely the Dragonfly larvae, which I think could be your critter. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: Amber Berglund [mailto:arberglund@...] Sent: Thursday, August 13, 2009 1:01 AM To: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny Subject: Re: Need a link you once gave out Oh I didn't want to be repetitive, LOL that's mostly why. It was definitely living UNDER the water, it was crawling around on a rock, and then switched to the intake filter, which I pulled out, tapped into a clean container and promptly said, "There squish it" LOL. It looked like an adult cricket, about the size of a nearly full grown one to be precise. Thanks, I'll go check the links now. Amber Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > Why didn't you post to the group? No biggie, just curious? I'm gonna > forward this reply to the group just to remind folks in the group of > these really good links. > > Was this thing living underwater or above the water line? I found a > German cockroach living under the rim of my cherry shrimp tank a while > back. I use to keep the water level down a little in that tank since > I have a lot of duckweed growing in that tank. I imagine the dang > cockroach was able to just walk around on top of the duckweed. > > Anyhow.. back to your issue. > > When you say it looked like a cricket... are you talking about an > adult cricket or do you know what cricket larvae look like? I'll be > honest and admit I've never seen cricket larvae but an adult cricket > is pretty easily identified. > > Anyhow, here's all the links that I have to the various critters that > grow in our tanks/ponds and each of these pages have many other links > on them since there are obviously so many things that can grow in a tank/pond. > > On the fourth link below, there's something called a Water Bear which > at least fits your description of eight legs but I'm not sure if that > is what you have. > > http://www.caudata.org/cc/articles/Tank_critters.shtml > > http://web.archive.org/web/20070523055718/http://www.menunkatuck.org/pages/m icro.htm > > http://web.archive.org/web/20060716164019/http://www.menunkatuck.org/pages/m icro2.htm > > http://microscopy-uk.org.uk/index.html?http://microscopy-uk.org.uk/pond/inde x.html > > http://www3.sympatico.ca/drosera1/fish/worms.htm > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles > referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically > under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) > > > -----Original Message----- > From: Amber Berglund [mailto:arberglund@...] > Sent: Thursday, August 13, 2009 12:36 AM > To: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny > Subject: Need a link you once gave out > > Hey I found a "creepy crawly" in one of my tanks (the Angel tank to be > precise). I haven't found one in any of my other tanks yet, the only > other tank it may be in is my 55 gallon community tank upstairs with > all the snails and fry in it (not to mention young cherry shrimp). So > I can't exactly so savaging around in it looking for critters that > don't belong just yet ;) It looked very similar to a cricket but with > spikey protrusions on it's arms/legs. It had 8 legs I think, and more > of a spikey abdomen than a cricket (crickets are round and this one > looked more like something you'd find hiding under a rock in a desert > to me). It was very creepy so I made the hubby squish it, it seemed > resistant to squishing as even after he had squished it several times it was still "breathing" and twitching it legs. > Perhaps death throws who knows ;) LOL. > Anyways I'm trying to identify it and find out if I should be on the > lookout for whatever they are (makes me not want to stick my arm in > the tank even more now, LOL). > I thought I saw you give out a link on identifying other types of > aquarium inhabitants besides fish and snails ;) > > Thanks > Amber > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 42701	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 8/12/2009
Subject: Re: Need a link you once gave out

Well, as you saw, they are very good predators so you are lucky you caught him and that he ended up in the Angelfish tank and not the one with your shrimp and fry. They are not very common in aquariums so you should be OK. They are more common in ponds but then BIG goldfish or Koi usually dispense of many of them before they can do much harm. More than likely you got him when you had that heat wave and you probably had your windows and doors open more to help cool down your house and a dragonfly decided to lay an egg in your tank. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: Amber Berglund [mailto:arberglund@...] Sent: Thursday, August 13, 2009 1:24 AM To: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny Subject: Re: Need a link you once gave out Yes I think you are right, that's what it looked like, thanks. Should I worry about more of them? Amber Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > OK. Check the last link and the five links under Insect Larvae, namely > the Dragonfly larvae, which I think could be your critter. > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles > referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically > under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) > > > -----Original Message----- > From: Amber Berglund [mailto:arberglund@...] > Sent: Thursday, August 13, 2009 1:01 AM > To: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny > Subject: Re: Need a link you once gave out > > Oh I didn't want to be repetitive, LOL that's mostly why. > It was definitely living UNDER the water, it was crawling around on a > rock, and then switched to the intake filter, which I pulled out, > tapped into a clean container and promptly said, "There squish it" LOL. > It looked like an adult cricket, about the size of a nearly full grown > one to be precise. > Thanks, I'll go check the links now. > > Amber > > Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > >> Why didn't you post to the group? No biggie, just curious? I'm >> gonna forward this reply to the group just to remind folks in the >> group of these really good links. >> >> Was this thing living underwater or above the water line? I found a >> German cockroach living under the rim of my cherry shrimp tank a >> while back. I use to keep the water level down a little in that tank >> since I have a lot of duckweed growing in that tank. I imagine the >> dang cockroach was able to just walk around on top of the duckweed. >> >> Anyhow.. back to your issue. >> >> When you say it looked like a cricket... are you talking about an >> adult cricket or do you know what cricket larvae look like? I'll be >> honest and admit I've never seen cricket larvae but an adult cricket >> is pretty easily identified. >> >> Anyhow, here's all the links that I have to the various critters that >> grow in our tanks/ponds and each of these pages have many other links >> on them since there are obviously so many things that can grow in a >> > tank/pond. > >> On the fourth link below, there's something called a Water Bear which >> at least fits your description of eight legs but I'm not sure if that >> is what you have. >> >> http://www.caudata.org/cc/articles/Tank_critters.shtml >> >> >> > http://web.archive.org/web/20070523055718/http://www.menunkatuck.org/p > ages/m > icro.htm > >> > http://web.archive.org/web/20060716164019/http://www.menunkatuck.org/p > ages/m > icro2.htm > >> > http://microscopy-uk.org.uk/index.html?http://microscopy-uk.org.uk/pon > d/inde > x.html > >> http://www3.sympatico.ca/drosera1/fish/worms.htm >> >> Lenny Vasbinder >> Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles >> referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, >> alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) >> >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: Amber Berglund [mailto:arberglund@...] >> Sent: Thursday, August 13, 2009 12:36 AM >> To: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny >> Subject: Need a link you once gave out >> >> Hey I found a "creepy crawly" in one of my tanks (the Angel tank to >> be precise). I haven't found one in any of my other tanks yet, the >> only other tank it may be in is my 55 gallon community tank upstairs >> with all the snails and fry in it (not to mention young cherry >> shrimp). So I can't exactly so savaging around in it looking for >> critters that don't belong just yet ;) It looked very similar to a >> cricket but with spikey protrusions on it's arms/legs. It had 8 legs >> I think, and more of a spikey abdomen than a cricket (crickets are >> round and this one looked more like something you'd find hiding under >> a rock in a desert to me). It was very creepy so I made the hubby >> squish it, it seemed resistant to squishing as even after he had >> squished it several times it >> > was still "breathing" and twitching it legs. > >> Perhaps death throws who knows ;) LOL. >> Anyways I'm trying to identify it and find out if I should be on the >> lookout for whatever they are (makes me not want to stick my arm in >> the tank even more now, LOL). >> I thought I saw you give out a link on identifying other types of >> aquarium inhabitants besides fish and snails ;) >> >> Thanks >> Amber >> >> >> > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 42702	From: Muhamad Izham Gulam Ali	Date: 8/13/2009
Subject: Fw: Fresh Water Lobsters Training(Crayfish)

Hai,My name is Izham from Perlis,Malaysia.I make Fresh Water Lobster Training in my Cross Breeding Centre.Training just RM80 and you can see and know all about crayfish.   Training start in sunday 16 August 2009,time 9am to 12 pm.   My adress Lot 2768,Taman Beseri Jaya,Lrg Beseri Jaya 4,Batu 9,Jalan Kaki Bukit,02400,Kangar ,Perlis,Malaysia.   Thank you. Dapatkan nama E-mel keutamaan anda! Kini anda boleh @... dan @....

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 42703	From: caroline	Date: 8/13/2009
Subject: Re: siamese fish

am changing to gravel.. he does seem to sit on the bottom.. how on earth can you tell if your fish is happy. I am not kidding about this..I really want to do right by the little guy. caroline At 01:31 PM 8/11/2009, you wrote: > > >Well, I use gravel - it's easier to separate the poop from the gravel by >stirring long enough to dump out the water. > >Yours, >Dora Smith >Austin, TX ><mailto:tiggernut24%40yahoo.com>tiggernut24@... >----- Original Message ----- >From: "caroline" <<mailto:waves02%40charter.net>waves02@...> >To: <<mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com> >Sent: Tuesday, August 11, 2009 1:37 PM >Subject: [AquaticLife] siamese fish > >do you empty the entire bowl..stirring up the sand..then put in new >water..or just vaccum the sand.. thank you.. > >------------------------------------ > >Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. >·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> >PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to >the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT >LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- ><º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. >We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. > >If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of unsubscribing, you >can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the >home page. > >Or e-mail ><mailto:aquaticlife-digest%40yahoogroups.com>aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com >to receive the digest, which >includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email > >Or email ><mailto:aquaticlife-nomail%40yahoogroups.com>aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com >for the No E-Mail option where >you will still be able to read messages on the group and post replies. > >Or email ><mailto:aquaticlife-normal%40yahoogroups.com>aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com >to receive individual >e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 42704	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 8/13/2009
Subject: Re: siamese fish

You haven't told us much about the tank/container and whether it has a filter or not but if not, then the top layer of sand could possibly contain a lot of nitrifying bacteria helping to keep the water cycled (ammonia/nitrite converted to nitrate) so when changing this sand for gravel, you will have to monitor the water daily for ammonia/nitrite and be prepared to do 25% PWC's as needed to keep the ammonia/nitrite levels at a non-toxic level. Putting a live plant or several stalks of Anacharis, anchored down to the bottom, will help with cycling the container and also provide a nicer home for your Betta. Bettas will often sit somewhere to rest. It's good to have a live plant (or silk if you absolutely can not do a small live plant) as they will also use that as a "hammock" to rest on. If you use Anacharis, as the stalks grow, do not let them cover up the surface of the water too much so your Betta still has plenty of room to go to the surface to breathe. While many folks keep their Bettas in really small containers, vases, bowls, etc., I think a more appropriately sized (5G to 10G) fully set up tank with filter and heater (if needed) is best for them. This article and forum thread discusses things in detail. Sorry but the Aquatic-Hobbyist website forum seems to be down right now but here is the page on the Wayback Internet Archive, minus any pictures. http://web.archive.org/web/20031102050717/http://www.aquatic-hobbyist.com/ph pBB2/viewtopic.php?t=5 And another OK article. http://thegab.org/Articles/BettaBasics.html Here's a SNIP from the article on my blog, "Hailey's 10 Gallon Tank Stocking List And Recommendations", which also gives info on suitable tank mates for a Betta. "*Bettas can be particularly tricky to keep with other fish, so I thought it best to elaborate on the subject of proper tankmates for bettas. Some good tankmates for bettas include corydoras, otocinclus, small, peaceful tetras and rasboras like the ones on this list (some others may not be appropriate), kuhli loaches, pencilfish, snails, african dwarf frogs (only one in a 10 gallon), and occasionally shrimp, if the betta doesn't eat them. Avoid fish of the same color or shape (especially with long fins), fast swimmers (which I didn't put on the list anyway because they don't do well in 10 gallon tanks), labyrinth fish, or fish which occupy the top of the tank like the betta. This rules out gouramis, guppies, hatchetfish, any species of long finned tetras, and various other fish depending on the color of the betta you choose." END SNIP You will also find that maintaining a 5G or 10G tank is a lot easier than maintaining a small container that gets dirtier much quicker so you are doing PWC's much more often. With a lightly stocked and planted 5G or 10G tank, you could go a couple of weeks in between PWCs and tank maintenance. A fully stocked tank would need weekly tank maintenance. Overstocked tanks, more frequently. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of caroline Sent: Thursday, August 13, 2009 8:50 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] siamese fish am changing to gravel.. he does seem to sit on the bottom.. how on earth can you tell if your fish is happy. I am not kidding about this..I really want to do right by the little guy. caroline At 01:31 PM 8/11/2009, you wrote: > > >Well, I use gravel - it's easier to separate the poop from the gravel >by stirring long enough to dump out the water. > >Yours, >Dora Smith >Austin, TX ><mailto:tiggernut24%40yahoo.com>tiggernut24@... >----- Original Message ----- >From: "caroline" <<mailto:waves02%40charter.net>waves02@...> >To: <<mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com> >Sent: Tuesday, August 11, 2009 1:37 PM >Subject: [AquaticLife] siamese fish > >do you empty the entire bowl..stirring up the sand..then put in new >water..or just vaccum the sand.. thank you..

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 42705	From: Gail	Date: 8/13/2009
Subject: Re: Snail behavior - cont

Okay, my snail in the 55 Gallon = is dead. My other tank has the TWO snails, that I thought were mating. The one is dead, and my black one is getting huge and thriving. He cruises around the tank ;) I hope this clarifies. --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, Amber Berglund <arberglund@...> wrote: > > I thought Gail said that her 2 snails in the same tank died, but she has > another snail in another tank that is still alive... Was I wrong? LOL > > Okay Gail time to clear things up ;) > > Amber >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 42706	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 8/13/2009
Subject: Re: Snail behavior - cont

Okay have you tested the 55 gallon tank's water yet? Have you compared the tests to the other tank? Have you changed anything recently? Did you feed anything different, or were you feeding the tank enough so the snail could find enough food? They don't eat algae on the side of the glass much, if at all, they prefer left overs ;) What kind of substrate do you use in these tanks and do you test your GH and KH at all? You can also get ahold of your water company to find out what your GH and or KH is right from the tap, but that will slowly get used up to stabilize the pH and if you run out you can have a pH crash (in my case my GH and KH in my tap water is so low that it's nearly gone 2 days later when I test it sitting in a bucket). Have you done your tap water baseline testing? I still think that either the snail starved to death or possibly was harassed to death, but I don't see that too likely unless you have very aggressive fish. Amber Gail wrote: > > > Okay, my snail in the 55 Gallon = is dead. > My other tank has the TWO snails, that I thought were mating. The one > is dead, and my black one is getting huge and thriving. He cruises > around the tank ;) > > I hope this clarifies. > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>, Amber Berglund > <arberglund@...> wrote: > > > > I thought Gail said that her 2 snails in the same tank died, but she > has > > another snail in another tank that is still alive... Was I wrong? LOL > > > > Okay Gail time to clear things up ;) > > > > Amber > > > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 42707	From: Courtland Jacob	Date: 8/13/2009
Subject: Re: shells

thanks everybody, it's going to be a slow process getting my new tank started, but I hope the end results will pay off --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Courtland Jacob" <courtland_jacob@...> wrote: > > where do you find shells for shellies? i thought i saw a container with some at petsmart, but maybe it was just the grocery store that i saw them, would those work? >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 42708	From: Gail	Date: 8/13/2009
Subject: Re: Snail behavior - cont

All I have is test strips. They test nitrates, etc.not the KH and GH. And since I live in Utah, the water is very hard, and has a lot of calcium carbonate to it and I would feed them tums; so I dont' think calcium was really an issue. And I am actually in the middle of moving, or packing to move. So I am unsure of where my strips actually are. Nothing has drastically changed in either tank. I do try to feed enough so my bottom dwellers have something to eat. So I guess I will just chalk it up as a loss. and keep the One big bad black snail that I have left. I feel like I dont' have much luck with invertibrates. -gail --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, Amber Berglund <arberglund@...> wrote: > > Okay have you tested the 55 gallon tank's water yet? Have you compared > the tests to the other tank? Have you changed anything recently? Did you > feed anything different, or were you feeding the tank enough so the > snail could find enough food? They don't eat algae on the side of the > glass much, if at all, they prefer left overs ;) What kind of substrate > do you use in these tanks and do you test your GH and KH at all? You can > also get ahold of your water company to find out what your GH and or KH > is right from the tap, but that will slowly get used up to stabilize the > pH and if you run out you can have a pH crash (in my case my GH and KH > in my tap water is so low that it's nearly gone 2 days later when I test > it sitting in a bucket). > Have you done your tap water baseline testing? > I still think that either the snail starved to death or possibly was > harassed to death, but I don't see that too likely unless you have very > aggressive fish. > > Amber > > Gail wrote: > > > > > > Okay, my snail in the 55 Gallon = is dead. > > My other tank has the TWO snails, that I thought were mating. The one > > is dead, and my black one is getting huge and thriving. He cruises > > around the tank ;) > > > > I hope this clarifies. > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>, Amber Berglund > > <arberglund@> wrote: > > > > > > I thought Gail said that her 2 snails in the same tank died, but she > > has > > > another snail in another tank that is still alive... Was I wrong? LOL > > > > > > Okay Gail time to clear things up ;) > > > > > > Amber > > > > > > > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 42709	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 8/13/2009
Subject: Re: Snail behavior - cont

If you've had problems with other inverts, then you could have a copper or other contaminate issue as copper is very deadly to inverts. That wouldn't explain the one black one that is doing well but it's a thought. I've asked before... which tap water dechlor do you use, if any? Most dechlor products also treat for heavy metals (including copper) so if you are not using one, maybe due to have non-treated water, maybe you should start just to get the benefits from the heavy metal treatment. How high are your nitrates prior to a PWC? Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Gail Sent: Thursday, August 13, 2009 5:10 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Snail behavior - cont All I have is test strips. They test nitrates, etc.not the KH and GH. And since I live in Utah, the water is very hard, and has a lot of calcium carbonate to it and I would feed them tums; so I dont' think calcium was really an issue. And I am actually in the middle of moving, or packing to move. So I am unsure of where my strips actually are. Nothing has drastically changed in either tank. I do try to feed enough so my bottom dwellers have something to eat. So I guess I will just chalk it up as a loss. and keep the One big bad black snail that I have left. I feel like I dont' have much luck with invertibrates. -gail --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, Amber Berglund <arberglund@...> wrote: > > Okay have you tested the 55 gallon tank's water yet? Have you compared > the tests to the other tank? Have you changed anything recently? Did > you feed anything different, or were you feeding the tank enough so > the snail could find enough food? They don't eat algae on the side of > the glass much, if at all, they prefer left overs ;) What kind of > substrate do you use in these tanks and do you test your GH and KH at > all? You can also get ahold of your water company to find out what > your GH and or KH is right from the tap, but that will slowly get used > up to stabilize the pH and if you run out you can have a pH crash (in > my case my GH and KH in my tap water is so low that it's nearly gone 2 > days later when I test it sitting in a bucket). > Have you done your tap water baseline testing? > I still think that either the snail starved to death or possibly was > harassed to death, but I don't see that too likely unless you have > very aggressive fish. > > Amber > > Gail wrote: > > > > > > Okay, my snail in the 55 Gallon = is dead. > > My other tank has the TWO snails, that I thought were mating. The > > one is dead, and my black one is getting huge and thriving. He > > cruises around the tank ;) > > > > I hope this clarifies. > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>, Amber Berglund <arberglund@> > > wrote: > > > > > > I thought Gail said that her 2 snails in the same tank died, but > > > she > > has > > > another snail in another tank that is still alive... Was I wrong? > > > LOL > > > > > > Okay Gail time to clear things up ;) > > > > > > Amber

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 42710	From: Chauncey	Date: 8/13/2009
Subject: Anemone behavior

My LFS has a ton of these anemones and was just giving them away dont know what kind they are but we it comes time to turn out the lights they close up almost instantly and when i turn the lights on they open back up again they have been doing it the last 3 or 4 days are they just dying or is that normal...

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 42711	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 8/14/2009
Subject: Re: Anemone behavior

I'm not a SW fish keeper but I've read that it is normal for some species to close up at night. Here's a FREE online SW and Reef magazine that you can read up on for more info. They have the past issues back to 2002 up through the current issue... so plenty of free reading. http://www.reefkeeping.com/issues/past.php You can also sort by subject, etc. and here's a LONG articles all about an anemone adventure but no real mention about lighting, opening and closing. http://www.reefkeeping.com/issues/2006-03/nftt/index.php I'm sure there are many other articles about anemones if you browse the index of each magazine. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Chauncey Sent: Thursday, August 13, 2009 10:22 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Anemone behavior My LFS has a ton of these anemones and was just giving them away dont know what kind they are but we it comes time to turn out the lights they close up almost instantly and when i turn the lights on they open back up again they have been doing it the last 3 or 4 days are they just dying or is that normal... ------------------------------------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the home page. Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com to receive the digest, which includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com for the No E-Mail option where you will still be able to read messages on the group and post replies. Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com to receive individual e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 42712	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 8/14/2009
Subject: Re: Anemone behavior

From my years as a child living on a boat I'm pretty sure they are light sensitive (much like a flower), but they will also close up if touched too ;) *looks innocent* Amber Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > > > I'm not a SW fish keeper but I've read that it is normal for some > species to > close up at night. > > Here's a FREE online SW and Reef magazine that you can read up on for more > info. They have the past issues back to 2002 up through the current > issue... so plenty of free reading. > > http://www.reefkeeping.com/issues/past.php > <http://www.reefkeeping.com/issues/past.php> > > You can also sort by subject, etc. and here's a LONG articles all about an > anemone adventure but no real mention about lighting, opening and closing. > > http://www.reefkeeping.com/issues/2006-03/nftt/index.php > <http://www.reefkeeping.com/issues/2006-03/nftt/index.php> > > I'm sure there are many other articles about anemones if you browse the > index of each magazine. > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right > side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On > Behalf Of Chauncey > Sent: Thursday, August 13, 2009 10:22 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Subject: [AquaticLife] Anemone behavior > > My LFS has a ton of these anemones and was just giving them away dont know > what kind they are but we it comes time to turn out the lights they > close up > almost instantly and when i turn the lights on they open back up again > they > have been doing it the last 3 or 4 days are they just dying or is that > normal... > > ------------------------------------ > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. > ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> > PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to > the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the > SUBJECT > LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- > <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. > > If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of unsubscribing, you > can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the > home page. > > Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:aquaticlife-digest%40yahoogroups.com> to receive the digest, which > includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email > > Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:aquaticlife-nomail%40yahoogroups.com> for the No E-Mail option > where > you will still be able to read messages on the group and post replies. > > Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:aquaticlife-normal%40yahoogroups.com> to receive individual > e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 42713	From: toddswoman496861@aim.com	Date: 8/14/2009
Subject: aquarium salt

I am contemplating adding salt to my guppy aquarium. I read the directions on the salt box i got. I plan on doing it slowly. Only thing is. Will salt water hurt plecos? Kate Dale [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 42714	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 8/14/2009
Subject: Re: aquarium salt

I have my guppy's in a salt free aquarium, trust me they will do fine without it, they just prefer salt in their water. Mine breed like crazy in a salt free freshwater aquarium with a pH of 7.2 If you really want to add salt do it very slowly and add it to a cup of water and let it dissolve first before adding it to the tank as it can burn your fish on contact if they try to eat it. Most fish will slowly adapt to changing water parameters, even if it's something they don't prefer. If you half the instructions and add a little once a day until you get to the half amount you came up to, carefully watching your fishes to make sure there are no fish acting oddly from the salt. Once you get to that point you can consider if you want to go to the full dosage the box recommends, but is the dosage for guppy's or just for "medication" type instructions? You might want to double check how much salt guppy's really need/prefer in their water first. Amber toddswoman496861@... wrote: > > > > I am contemplating adding salt to my guppy aquarium. I read the > directions on the salt box i got. I plan on doing it slowly. Only > thing is. Will salt water hurt plecos? > > Kate Dale > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 42715	From: Deenerz@aol.com	Date: 8/14/2009
Subject: Re: aquarium salt

Kate, Why do you want to add salt to your tank? Speaking in generalities, plecos do not come from a salt environment. Many of the ones caught are thousands of miles from brackish or salt water. I only add salt if a fish needs it, or I am treating fish for an ailment. -Mike -----Original Message----- From: toddswoman496861@... To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Fri, Aug 14, 2009 2:11 pm Subject: [AquaticLife] aquarium salt I am contemplating adding salt to my guppy aquarium. I read the directions on the salt box i got. I plan on doing it slowly. Only thing is. Will salt water hurt plecos? Kate Dale [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 42716	From: toddswoman496861@aim.com	Date: 8/14/2009
Subject: Re: aquarium salt

The guppies for some reason seem a bit stressed. and I have read that use of salt will prevent some fungus and other junk? from happening Kate Dale -----Original Message----- From: Deenerz@... To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Fri, Aug 14, 2009 5:29 pm Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] aquarium salt Kate, Why do you want to add salt to your tank? Speaking in generalities, plecos do not come from a salt environment. Many of the ones caught are thousands of miles from brackish or salt water. I only add salt if a fish needs it, or I am treating fish for an ailment. -Mike -----Original Message----- From: toddswoman496861@... To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Fri, Aug 14, 2009 2:11 pm Subject: [AquaticLife] aquarium salt I am contemplating adding salt to my guppy aquarium. I read the directions on the salt box i got. I plan on doing it slowly. Only thing is. Will salt water hurt plecos? Kate Dale [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] ------------------------------------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. `..><((((>.`..`.><((((> .`.. , .`..><((((> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <((((><.`..`.<((((><.`.. , .`..<((((><`.. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the home page. Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com to receive the digest, which includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com for the No E-Mail option where you will still be able to read messages on the group and post replies. Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com to receive individual e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 42717	From: toddswoman496861@aim.com	Date: 8/14/2009
Subject: Re: aquarium salt

That I plan on. Just some of the guppies seem stressed and have lost one already was swimming on its side for a while. and I have no way of even setting up an isolation tank or bowl Kate Dale -----Original Message----- From: Amber Berglund <arberglund@...> To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Fri, Aug 14, 2009 5:26 pm Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] aquarium salt I have my guppy's in a salt free aquarium, trust me they will do fine without it, they just prefer salt in their water. Mine breed like crazy in a salt free freshwater aquarium with a pH of 7.2 If you really want to add salt do it very slowly and add it to a cup of water and let it dissolve first before adding it to the tank as it can burn your fish on contact if they try to eat it. Most fish will slowly adapt to changing water parameters, even if it's something they don't prefer. If you half the instructions and add a little once a day until you get to the half amount you came up to, carefully watching your fishes to make sure there are no fish acting oddly from the salt. Once you get to that point you can consider if you want to go to the full dosage the box recommends, but is the dosage for guppy's or just for "medication" type instructions? You might want to double check how much salt guppy's really need/prefer in their water first. Amber toddswoman496861@... wrote: > > > > I am contemplating adding salt to my guppy aquarium. I read the > directions on the salt box i got. I plan on doing it slowly. Only > thing is. Will salt water hurt plecos? > > Kate Dale > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > ------------------------------------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the home page. Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com to receive the digest, which includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com for the No E-Mail option where you will still be able to read messages on the group and post replies. Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com to receive individual e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 42718	From: toddswoman496861@aim.com	Date: 8/14/2009
Subject: Re: aquarium salt

more like a maintenence Kate Dale -----Original Message----- From: toddswoman496861@... To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Fri, Aug 14, 2009 5:52 pm Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] aquarium salt The guppies for some reason seem a bit stressed. and I have read that use of salt will prevent some fungus and other junk? from happening Kate Dale -----Original Message----- From: Deenerz@... To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Fri, Aug 14, 2009 5:29 pm Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] aquarium salt Kate, Why do you want to add salt to your tank? Speaking in generalities, plecos do not come from a salt environment. Many of the ones caught are thousands of miles from brackish or salt water. I only add salt if a fish needs it, or I am treating fish for an ailment. -Mike -----Original Message----- From: toddswoman496861@... To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Fri, Aug 14, 2009 2:11 pm Subject: [AquaticLife] aquarium salt I am contemplating adding salt to my guppy aquarium. I read the directions on the salt box i got. I plan on doing it slowly. Only thing is. Will salt water hurt plecos? Kate Dale [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] ------------------------------------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. `..><((((>.`..`.><((((> . `.. , .`..><((((> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <((((><.`..`.<((((><.`.. , .`..<((((><`.. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the home page. Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com to receive the digest, which includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com for the No E-Mail option where you will still be able to read messages on the group and post replies. Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com to receive individual e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] ------------------------------------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.· ¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the home page. Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com to receive the digest, which includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com for the No E-Mail option where you will still be able to read messages on the group and post replies. Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com to receive individual e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 42719	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 8/14/2009
Subject: Re: aquarium salt

How much salt were you planning on using? I see in your follow-up post, that you are contemplating this for medicinal purposes but in order for salt to be used as a therapy, for disease/parasite treatment, you would have to use at least 1 teaspoon per gallon (and more if needed) and that is a LOT more than you would use on a "normal" basis for slightly raising the salinity in a livebearer tank... and as you mention, your pleco's and possibly other fish will not likely do as well in the higher salinity water. What are your water parameters like right now... both out the tap, 48 hour baseline and in the tank? Many folks add salt to their livebearer tanks to increase the salinity and also the hardness of the water since most livebearers prefer this type of water. If your tap water, after 48 hours is already providing these parameters, then the addition of salt may not be needed for general usage. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of toddswoman496861@... Sent: Friday, August 14, 2009 4:12 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] aquarium salt I am contemplating adding salt to my guppy aquarium. I read the directions on the salt box i got. I plan on doing it slowly. Only thing is. Will salt water hurt plecos? Kate Dale

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 42720	From: toddswoman496861@aim.com	Date: 8/14/2009
Subject: Re: aquarium salt

not sure of that as I have no testing supplies will  be buying one on payday. damn  just lost another guppy  the last of the deformed ones. Kate Dale -----Original Message----- From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@...> To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Fri, Aug 14, 2009 7:32 pm Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] aquarium salt How much salt were you planning on using? I see in your follow-up post, that you are contemplating this for medicinal purposes but in order for salt to be used as a therapy, for disease/parasite treatment, you would have to use at least 1 teaspoon per gallon (and more if needed) and that is a LOT more than you would use on a "normal" basis for slightly raising the salinity in a livebearer tank... and as you mention, your pleco's and possibly other fish will not likely do as well in the higher salinity water. What are your water parameters like right now... both out the tap, 48 hour baseline and in the tank? Many folks add salt to their livebearer tanks to increase the salinity and also the hardness of the water since most livebearers prefer this type of water. If your tap water, after 48 hours is already providing these parameters, then the addition of salt may not be needed for general usage. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Mo nth) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of toddswoman496861@... Sent: Friday, August 14, 2009 4:12 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] aquarium salt I am contemplating adding salt to my guppy aquarium. I read the directions on the salt box i got. I plan on doing it slowly. Only thing is. Will salt water hurt plecos? Kate Dale ------------------------------------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the home page. Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com to receive the digest, which includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com for the No E-Mail option where you=2 0 will still be able to read messages on the group and post replies. Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com to receive individual e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 42721	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 8/14/2009
Subject: Re: aquarium salt

How long ago was this tank set up? and how often do you do your tank maintenance and how do you do it? Amber toddswoman496861@... wrote: > > > > not sure of that as I have no testing supplies will be buying one on > payday. damn just lost another guppy the last of the deformed ones. > > Kate Dale > > -----Original Message----- > From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@... > <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com>> > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Sent: Fri, Aug 14, 2009 7:32 pm > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] aquarium salt > > How much salt were you planning on using? I see in your follow-up post, > that you are contemplating this for medicinal purposes but in order > for salt > to be used as a therapy, for disease/parasite treatment, you would have to > use at least 1 teaspoon per gallon (and more if needed) and that is a LOT > more than you would use on a "normal" basis for slightly raising the > salinity in a livebearer tank... and as you mention, your pleco's and > possibly other fish will not likely do as well in the higher salinity > water. > > What are your water parameters like right now... both out the tap, 48 hour > baseline and in the tank? Many folks add salt to their livebearer tanks to > increase the salinity and also the hardness of the water since most > livebearers prefer this type of water. If your tap water, after 48 > hours is > already providing these parameters, then the addition of salt may not be > needed for general usage. > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right > side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Mo > nth) > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On > Behalf Of toddswoman496861@... <mailto:toddswoman496861%40aim.com> > Sent: Friday, August 14, 2009 4:12 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Subject: [AquaticLife] aquarium salt > > I am contemplating adding salt to my guppy aquarium. I read the directions > on the salt box i got. I plan on doing it slowly. Only thing is. Will salt > water hurt plecos? > > Kate Dale > > ------------------------------------ > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. > ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> > PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT > important to the > reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the > SUBJECT LINE -> > i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- > <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. > > If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of unsubscribing, > you can > change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the > home > page. > > Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:aquaticlife-digest%40yahoogroups.com> to receive the digest, > which > includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email > > Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:aquaticlife-nomail%40yahoogroups.com> for the No E-Mail option > where you=2 > 0 > will still be able to read messages on the group and post replies. > > Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:aquaticlife-normal%40yahoogroups.com> to receive individual > e-mails.Yahoo! > Groups Links > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 42722	From: nicurns@bellsouth.net	Date: 8/14/2009
Subject: Re: Anemone behavior

This is a normal behavior for anemones to close and open. They are light sensitive as they require it for photosynthesis (algae within their tentacles). Some species do require special lighting or they will die, as well as some are very sensitive to water parameters. We had a large carpet Ane for years that would crawl around the tank finding "it's" place, and they can kill corals in their adventures. They do require supplements, and do better with a clown to help feed them, but you can also feed them shrimp or thawed brine or krill. Don't feed them until they're happy!!!!!! Hope this helps, James S. --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Chauncey" <armyknight2002@...> wrote: > > My LFS has a ton of these anemones and was just giving them away dont know what kind they are but we it comes time to turn out the lights they close up almost instantly and when i turn the lights on they open back up again they have been doing it the last 3 or 4 days are they just dying or is that normal... >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 42723	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 8/14/2009
Subject: Re: aquarium salt

If the ones that have died were deformed ones, they should have been culled anyhow. They are not likely dying from anything to do with your water, just the fact that they were deformed. In the wild, they would have been eaten right away anyhow. Are you leaving the fry in with the adults or removing the adults or fry to a separate tank? If you are separating them, then you should cull them yourself, if you leave them in with the adults, then the adults would likely eat the deformed or sickly fry first and only the stronger fry would figure out a way to escape by hiding in the plants. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of toddswoman496861@... Sent: Friday, August 14, 2009 7:13 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] aquarium salt not sure of that as I have no testing supplies will  be buying one on payday. damn  just lost another guppy  the last of the deformed ones. Kate Dale -----Original Message----- From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@...> To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Fri, Aug 14, 2009 7:32 pm Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] aquarium salt How much salt were you planning on using? I see in your follow-up post, that you are contemplating this for medicinal purposes but in order for salt to be used as a therapy, for disease/parasite treatment, you would have to use at least 1 teaspoon per gallon (and more if needed) and that is a LOT more than you would use on a "normal" basis for slightly raising the salinity in a livebearer tank... and as you mention, your pleco's and possibly other fish will not likely do as well in the higher salinity water. What are your water parameters like right now... both out the tap, 48 hour baseline and in the tank? Many folks add salt to their livebearer tanks to increase the salinity and also the hardness of the water since most livebearers prefer this type of water. If your tap water, after 48 hours is already providing these parameters, then the addition of salt may not be needed for general usage. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Mo nth) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of toddswoman496861@... Sent: Friday, August 14, 2009 4:12 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] aquarium salt I am contemplating adding salt to my guppy aquarium. I read the directions on the salt box i got. I plan on doing it slowly. Only thing is. Will salt water hurt plecos? Kate Dale

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 42724	From: toddswoman496861@aim.com	Date: 8/14/2009
Subject: Re: aquarium salt

leaving with the adults.  Just let them live as well they were swimming good eatig good but will cull any more I find. and I just noticed another batch of young fry. lol Kate Dale -----Original Message----- From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@...> To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Fri, Aug 14, 2009 9:14 pm Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] aquarium salt If the ones that have died were deformed ones, they should have been culled anyhow. They are not likely dying from anything to do with your water, just the fact that they were deformed. In the wild, they would have been eaten right away anyhow. Are you leaving the fry in with the adults or removing the adults or fry to a separate tank? If you are separating them, then you should cull them yourself, if you leave them in with the adults, then the adults would likely eat the deformed or sickly fry first and only the stronger fry would figure out a way to escape by hiding in the plants. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of toddswoman496861@... Sent: Friday, August 14, 2009 7:13 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] aquarium salt not sure of that as I have no testing supplies willA 0 be buying one on payday. damn  just lost another guppy  the last of the deformed ones. Kate Dale -----Original Message----- From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@...> To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Fri, Aug 14, 2009 7:32 pm Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] aquarium salt How much salt were you planning on using? I see in your follow-up post, that you are contemplating this for medicinal purposes but in order for salt to be used as a therapy, for disease/parasite treatment, you would have to use at least 1 teaspoon per gallon (and more if needed) and that is a LOT more than you would use on a "normal" basis for slightly raising the salinity in a livebearer tank... and as you mention, your pleco's and possibly other fish will not likely do as well in the higher salinity water. What are your water parameters like right now... both out the tap, 48 hour baseline and in the tank? Many folks add salt to their livebearer tanks to increase the salinity and also the hardness of the water since most livebearers prefer this type of water. If your tap water, after 48 hours is already providing these parameters, then the addition of salt may not be needed for general usage. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Mo nth) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@y ahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of toddswoman496861@... Sent: Friday, August 14, 2009 4:12 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] aquarium salt I am contemplating adding salt to my guppy aquarium. I read the directions on the salt box i got. I plan on doing it slowly. Only thing is. Will salt water hurt plecos? Kate Dale ------------------------------------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the home page. Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com to receive the digest, which includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com for the No E-Mail option where you will still be able to read messages on the group and post replies. Or20email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com to receive individual e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 42725	From: toddswoman496861@aim.com	Date: 8/14/2009
Subject: Re: aquarium salt

about 3 months or more.  used to have a single goldfish in it when I got it and I used the original water and filter  till the filter gave out on me. the goldfish has found a new home though . do the pwc once  a week. at least 25% and I use a vacuum. The filter gets a complete cleaning(rinse out) every other time) with the pads being rinsed out each week. I think I know what killed the  second guppy I lost. She some how got in the tube that was suctioning the water out of the tank. The first one am not sure all i know is she was swimming on her side practically then half hour later as I was looking for a bowl to use for isolation.  she was gone. Kate Dale -----Original Message----- From: Amber Berglund <arberglund@...> To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Fri, Aug 14, 2009 8:31 pm Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] aquarium salt How long ago was this tank set up? and how often do you do your tank maintenance and how do you do it? Amber toddswoman496861@... wrote: > > > > not sure of that as I have no testing supplies will be buying one on > payday. damn just lost another guppy the last of the deformed ones. > > Kate Dale > > -----Original Message----- > From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@... > <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com>> > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Sent: Fri, Aug 14, 2009 7:32 pm > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] aquarium salt >0A> How much salt were you planning on using? I see in your follow-up post, > that you are contemplating this for medicinal purposes but in order > for salt > to be used as a therapy, for disease/parasite treatment, you would have to > use at least 1 teaspoon per gallon (and more if needed) and that is a LOT > more than you would use on a "normal" basis for slightly raising the > salinity in a livebearer tank... and as you mention, your pleco's and > possibly other fish will not likely do as well in the higher salinity > water. > > What are your water parameters like right now... both out the tap, 48 hour > baseline and in the tank? Many folks add salt to their livebearer tanks to > increase the salinity and also the hardness of the water since most > livebearers prefer this type of water. If your tap water, after 48 > hours is > already providing these parameters, then the addition of salt may not be > needed for general usage. > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right > side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Mo > nth) > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On > Behalf Of toddswoman496861@... <mailto:toddswoman496861%40aim.com> > Sent: Friday, August 14, 2009 4:12 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com20<mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Subject: [AquaticLife] aquarium salt > > I am contemplating adding salt to my guppy aquarium. I read the directions > on the salt box i got. I plan on doing it slowly. Only thing is. Will salt > water hurt plecos? > > Kate Dale > > ------------------------------------ > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. > ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> > PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT > important to the > reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the > SUBJECT LINE -> > i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- > <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. > > If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of unsubscribing, > you can > change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the > home > page. > > Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:aquaticlife-digest%40yahoogroups.com> to receive the digest, > which > includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email > > Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:aquaticlife-nomail%40yahoogroups.com> for the No E-Mail option > where you=2 > 0 >=2 0will still be able to read messages on the group and post replies. > > Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:aquaticlife-normal%40yahoogroups.com> to receive individual > e-mails.Yahoo! > Groups Links > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > ------------------------------------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. `..><((((>.`..`.><((((> .`.. , .`..><((((> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <((((><.`..`.<((((><.`.. , .`..<((((><`.. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the home page. Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com to receive the digest, which includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com for the No E-Mail option where you will still be able to read messages on the group and post replies. Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com to receive individual e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links 0ID required) [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 42726	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 8/14/2009
Subject: Re: aquarium salt

Do you clean the filter pads in removed tank water? Amber toddswoman496861@... wrote: > > > > about 3 months or more. used to have a single goldfish in it when I > got it and I used the original water and filter till the filter gave > out on me. the goldfish has found a new home though . do the pwc once > a week. at least 25% and I use a vacuum. The filter gets a complete > cleaning(rinse out) every other time) with the pads being rinsed out > each week. I think I know what killed the second guppy I lost. She > some how got in the tube that was suctioning the water out of the > tank. The first one am not sure all i know is she was swimming on her > side practically then half hour later as I was looking for a bowl to > use for isolation. she was gone. > > Kate Dale > > -----Original Message----- > From: Amber Berglund <arberglund@... > <mailto:arberglund%40gmail.com>> > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Sent: Fri, Aug 14, 2009 8:31 pm > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] aquarium salt > > How long ago was this tank set up? and how often do you do your tank > maintenance and how do you do it? > > Amber > > toddswoman496861@... <mailto:toddswoman496861%40aim.com> wrote: > > > > > > > > not sure of that as I have no testing supplies will be buying one on > > payday. damn just lost another guppy the last of the deformed ones. > > > > Kate Dale > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@... > <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com> > > <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com>> > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > Sent: Fri, Aug 14, 2009 7:32 pm > > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] aquarium salt > >0A> How much salt were you planning on using? I see in your follow-up > post, > > that you are contemplating this for medicinal purposes but in order > > for salt > > to be used as a therapy, for disease/parasite treatment, you would > have to > > use at least 1 teaspoon per gallon (and more if needed) and that is > a LOT > > more than you would use on a "normal" basis for slightly raising the > > salinity in a livebearer tank... and as you mention, your pleco's and > > possibly other fish will not likely do as well in the higher salinity > > water. > > > > What are your water parameters like right now... both out the tap, > 48 hour > > baseline and in the tank? Many folks add salt to their livebearer > tanks to > > increase the salinity and also the hardness of the water since most > > livebearers prefer this type of water. If your tap water, after 48 > > hours is > > already providing these parameters, then the addition of salt may not be > > needed for general usage. > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>> > > (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right > > side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Mo > > nth) > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On > > Behalf Of toddswoman496861@... > <mailto:toddswoman496861%40aim.com> <mailto:toddswoman496861%40aim.com> > > Sent: Friday, August 14, 2009 4:12 PM > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com20 > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com20><mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > Subject: [AquaticLife] aquarium salt > > > > I am contemplating adding salt to my guppy aquarium. I read the > directions > > on the salt box i got. I plan on doing it slowly. Only thing is. > Will salt > > water hurt plecos? > > > > Kate Dale > > > > ------------------------------------ > > > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, > Thank You. > > ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> > > PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT > > important to the > > reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the > > SUBJECT LINE -> > > i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- > > <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. > > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. > > > > If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of unsubscribing, > > you can > > change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the > > home > > page. > > > > Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:aquaticlife-digest%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:aquaticlife-digest%40yahoogroups.com> to receive the digest, > > which > > includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email > > > > Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:aquaticlife-nomail%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:aquaticlife-nomail%40yahoogroups.com> for the No E-Mail option > > where you=2 > > 0 > >=2 > 0will still be able to read messages on the group and post replies. > > > > Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:aquaticlife-normal%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:aquaticlife-normal%40yahoogroups.com> to receive individual > > e-mails.Yahoo! > > Groups Links > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > > > ------------------------------------ > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. > `..><((((>.`..`.><((((> .`.. , .`..><((((> > PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT > important to the > reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the > SUBJECT LINE -> > i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- > <((((><.`..`.<((((><.`.. , .`..<((((><`.. > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. > > If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of unsubscribing, > you can > change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the > home > page. > > Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:aquaticlife-digest%40yahoogroups.com> to receive the digest, > which > includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email > > Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:aquaticlife-nomail%40yahoogroups.com> for the No E-Mail option > where you > will still be able to read messages on the group and post replies. > > Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:aquaticlife-normal%40yahoogroups.com> to receive individual > e-mails.Yahoo! > Groups Links > > 0ID required) > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 42727	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 8/14/2009
Subject: Re: aquarium salt

Kate, You have not mentioned anything about your water parameters, in particular, your water hardness. Salt is a quick, easy way to introduce some hardness characteristics to the water. It does not increase hardness, per se, because plain salt does not contain any of the compounds that will contribute to water hardness. Salt, when added to freshwater, is best considered to be a medication. What you have heard about salt is using it as a prophylactic. Used occasionally in this manner, it is OK, so long as your fish would not be adversely affected by it. So far as your pleco goes, a light salt treatment would not hurt it. But I would not continue the treatment for more than a few weeks. What you really need to do is to determine why your fish appear to be stressed. Again, since you have not provided water quality measurements, it is difficult to say whether the water quality is playing a role. A description of your fish and their behavior would also help, along with the size of the tank, the population of the tank and their sizes. If it is not water quality, it could be tank mates, it could be diet, it could be any number of factors. Maybe, they are not really stressed at all. It could just be the "worried momma" syndrome, where momma perceives her fears in the fish. Above all, before any treatment is begun, even one as seemingly innocuous as salt, one should be sure what they are treating for, and use the appropriate methods and compounds to achieve a successful cure. \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of toddswoman496861@... Sent: Friday, August 14, 2009 5:53 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] aquarium salt The guppies for some reason seem a bit stressed. and I have read that use of salt will prevent some fungus and other junk? from happening Kate Dale -----Original Message----- From: Deenerz@... To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Fri, Aug 14, 2009 5:29 pm Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] aquarium salt Kate, Why do you want to add salt to your tank? Speaking in generalities, plecos do not come from a salt environment. Many of the ones caught are thousands of miles from brackish or salt water. I only add salt if a fish needs it, or I am treating fish for an ailment. -Mike -----Original Message----- From: toddswoman496861@... To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Fri, Aug 14, 2009 2:11 pm Subject: [AquaticLife] aquarium salt I am contemplating adding salt to my guppy aquarium. I read the directions on the salt box i got. I plan on doing it slowly. Only thing is. Will salt water hurt plecos? Kate Dale

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 42728	From: toddswoman496861@aim.com	Date: 8/14/2009
Subject: Re: aquarium salt

Yes Kate Dale -----Original Message----- From: Amber Berglund <arberglund@...> To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Fri, Aug 14, 2009 10:05 pm Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] aquarium salt Do you clean the filter pads in removed tank water? Amber toddswoman496861@... wrote: > > > > about 3 months or more. used to have a single goldfish in it when I > got it and I used the original water and filter till the filter gave > out on me. the goldfish has found a new home though . do the pwc once > a week. at least 25% and I use a vacuum. The filter gets a complete > cleaning(rinse out) every other time) with the pads being rinsed out > each week. I think I know what killed the second guppy I lost. She > some how got in the tube that was suctioning the water out of the > tank. The first one am not sure all i know is she was swimming on her > side practically then half hour later as I was looking for a bowl to > use for isolation. she was gone. > > Kate Dale > > -----Original Message----- > From: Amber Berglund <arberglund@... > <mailto:arberglund%40gmail.com>> > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Sent: Fri, Aug 14, 2009 8:31 pm > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] aquarium salt > > How long ago was this tank set up? and how often do you do your tank > maintenance and how do you do it? > > Amber > > toddswoman496861@... <mailto:toddswoman496861%40aim.com> wrote: > > > > > > > > not sure of that as I have no testing supplies will be buying one on > > payday. damn just lost another guppy the last of the deformed ones. > > > > Kate Dale > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@... > <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com> > > <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com>> > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > Sent: Fri, Aug 14, 2009 7:32 pm > > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] aquarium salt > >0A> How much salt were you planning on using? I see in your follow-up > post, > > that you are contemplating this for medicinal purposes but in order > > for salt > > to be used as a therapy, for disease/parasite treatment, you would > have to > > use at least 1 teaspoon per gallon (and more if needed) and that is > a LOT > > more than you would use on a "normal" basis for slightly raising the > > salinity in a livebearer tank... and as you mention, your pleco's and > > possibly other fish will not likely do as well in the higher salinity > > water. > > > > What are your water parameters like right now... both out the tap, > 48 hour > > baseline and in the tank? Many folks add salt to their livebearer > tanks to > > increase the salinity and also the hardness of the water since most > > livebearers prefer this type of water. If your tap water, after 48 > > hours is > > already providing these parameters, then=2 0the addition of salt may not be > > needed for general usage. > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>> > > (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right > > side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Mo > > nth) > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On > > Behalf Of toddswoman496861@... > <mailto:toddswoman496861%40aim.com> <mailto:toddswoman496861%40aim.com> > > Sent: Friday, August 14, 2009 4:12 PM > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com20 > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com20><mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > Subject: [AquaticLife] aquarium salt > > > > I am contemplating adding salt to my guppy aquarium. I read the > directions > > on the salt box i got. I plan on doing it slowly. Only thing is. > Will salt > > water hurt plecos? > > > > Kate Dale > > > > ------------------------------------ > > > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, > Thank You. > > ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> > > PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT tha t is NOT > > important to the > > reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the > > SUBJECT LINE -> > > i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- > > <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. > > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. > > > > If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of unsubscribing, > > you can > > change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the > > home > > page. > > > > Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:aquaticlife-digest%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:aquaticlife-digest%40yahoogroups.com> to receive the digest, > > which > > includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email > > > > Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:aquaticlife-nomail%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:aquaticlife-nomail%40yahoogroups.com> for the No E-Mail option > > where you=2 > > 0 > >=2 > 0will still be able to read messages on the group and post replies. > > > > Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:aquaticlife-normal%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:aquaticlife-normal%40yahoogroups.com> to receive individual > > e-mails.Yahoo! > > Groups Links > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > > > ------------------------------------ > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. > `..><((((>.`..`.><((((> .`.. ,20.`..><((((> > PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT > important to the > reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the > SUBJECT LINE -> > i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- > <((((><.`..`.<((((><.`.. , .`..<((((><`.. > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. > > If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of unsubscribing, > you can > change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the > home > page. > > Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:aquaticlife-digest%40yahoogroups.com> to receive the digest, > which > includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email > > Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:aquaticlife-nomail%40yahoogroups.com> for the No E-Mail option > where you > will still be able to read messages on the group and post replies. > > Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:aquaticlife-normal%40yahoogroups.com> to receive individual > e-mails.Yahoo! > Groups Links > > 0ID required) > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > ------------------------------------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. `..><((((>.`..`.><((((> .`.. , .`..><((((> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <((((><.`..`.<((((><.`.. , .`..<((((><`.. W e Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the home page. Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com to receive the digest, which includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com for the No E-Mail option where you will still be able to read messages on the group and post replies. Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com to receive individual e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 42729	From: toddswoman496861@aim.com	Date: 8/14/2009
Subject: Re: aquarium salt

That is because I do not know what they are. I will be getting a test kit come payday./ That is true could be worried momma syndrome. The 2 fish i did loose were deformed as I let them live because they were eating well and were quite active Kate Dale -----Original Message----- From: Steve Szabo <steve@...> To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Fri, Aug 14, 2009 10:43 pm Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] aquarium salt Kate, You have not mentioned anything about your water parameters, in particular, your water hardness. Salt is a quick, easy way to introduce some hardness characteristics to the water. It does not increase hardness, per se, because plain salt does not contain any of the compounds that will contribute to water hardness. Salt, when added to freshwater, is best considered to be a medication. What you have heard about salt is using it as a prophylactic. Used occasionally in this manner, it is OK, so long as your fish would not be adversely affected by it. So far as your pleco goes, a light salt treatment would not hurt it. But I would not continue the treatment for more than a few weeks. What you really need to do is to determine why your fish appear to be stressed. Again, since you have not provided water quality measurements, it is difficult to say whether the water quality is playing a role. A description of your fish and their behavior would also help, along with the size of the tank, the population of the ta nk and their sizes. If it is not water quality, it could be tank mates, it could be diet, it could be any number of factors. Maybe, they are not really stressed at all. It could just be the "worried momma" syndrome, where momma perceives her fears in the fish. Above all, before any treatment is begun, even one as seemingly innocuous as salt, one should be sure what they are treating for, and use the appropriate methods and compounds to achieve a successful cure. \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of toddswoman496861@... Sent: Friday, August 14, 2009 5:53 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] aquarium salt The guppies for some reason seem a bit stressed. and I have read that use of salt will prevent some fungus and other junk? from happening Kate Dale -----Original Message----- From: Deenerz@... To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Fri, Aug 14, 2009 5:29 pm Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] aquarium salt Kate, Why do you want to add salt to your tank? Speaking in generalities, plecos do not come from a salt environment. Many of the ones caught are thousands of miles from brackish or salt water. I only add salt if a fish needs it, or I am treating fish for an ailment. -Mike -----Original Message----- From: toddswoman496861@... To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Fri, Aug 14, 2009 2:11 pm Subject: [AquaticLife] aquarium salt I am contemplating adding salt to my guppy aquarium. I read the directions on the salt box i got. I plan on doing it slowly. Only thing is. Will salt water hurt plecos? Kate Dale ------------------------------------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the home page. Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com to receive the digest, which includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com for the No E-Mail option where you will still be able to read messages on the group and post replies. Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com to receive individual e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 42730	From: Courtland Jacob	Date: 8/15/2009
Subject: tap water

ok so I did a water change a few days ago, completely took apart and cleaned out my filter, deep gravel vac, then i tested the water a few hours later and the ammonia was around .25ppm so i was worried i might have screwed up my bio filter or something, I tested the water again today and the ammonia and nitrites are both at 0ppm, so i got curious and tested my tap water, my tap water came out at 0ppm for nitrate and nitrite, but at .5ppm for ammonia, is this bad for the fish, or more importantly... me?

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 42731	From: Byron	Date: 8/15/2009
Subject: Re: aquarium salt

I read through the subsequent responses on this issue, and will add what I feel is scientific data since no one has yet mentioned it directly. The aqnswer to using salt in a freshwater aquarium is no for the following reason. First off, for fish that can tolerate it (mollies) maybe, but many molly keepers do not use it as it is not mandatory as for brackish fish. In 2006, Laura Muha had a monthly column in TFH entitled "The Skeptical Fishkeeper," and several dealt with scientific issues. One was on pH and its effect on fish, another in December 2006 dealt with tank size v. growth in tropical fish, and salinity was specifically discussed in this article. Ms. Muha consulted a number of leading ichthyologists and scientists from major institutions in the US, and experienced aquarists in compiling her information. I consequently take this as fairly scientific data, not idle musings. Salinity and pH affect how hard a fish's body must work to maintain its biological equilibrium, which is the complex chain of internal chemical reactions that keep the pH of its blood steady, its tissues fed, and its immune system functioning. When pH or salinity stray outside the ideal range for any species, the fishes' bodies must work harder and use more energy to maintain this equilibrium. Ms. Muha used the analogy of driving a car up a hill--it takes more gas to maintain the same speed. One example of this process is the fact that the fish must adjust the pH of its blood to equal that of the water in which it lives. This is necessary because the freshwater fish absorbs water via osmosis into its cells (the equivalent of our drinking water). This adjusting is stressful on the fish, which is why pH fluctuations are so debilitating. Fish that are maintained in water that is reasonably close to its preference--and that is the water it is programmed by nature to live in--will be healthier and less stressed. Stress takes energy (as in humans) and leaves the fish vulnerable to poor health, disease, immune system failings, etc. This has to do not only with salinity, but pH, hardness and temperature. Fish from South America such as characins (with only one exception I am aware of, Pristella maxillaris), corydoras, and other catfish come from water that is generally very soft (0 to 1 or 2 degrees GH) and acidic (pH 4.5 up to low 6's) depending upon the species. None of these are accostomed to salt, and those near brackish water avoid it. Dr. David Sands opinioned that corydoras may not travel from one creek to another (via the main Rio Negro) due to differences in pH of 1 degree; it acts as a natural boundary to the fish. All of this tells us something I think. I would never use salt with these fish. Byron. --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, toddswoman496861@... wrote: > > > I am contemplating adding salt to my guppy aquarium. I read the directions on the salt box i got. I plan on doing it slowly. Only thing is. Will salt water hurt plecos? > > > > > > > Kate Dale > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 42732	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 8/15/2009
Subject: Re: tap water

As long as you only cleaned your filter media with removed tank water, you will mostly keep your good nitrifying bacteria alive. Over cleaning can sometimes cause a mini-cycle where you will get ammonia/nitrite spikes that will usually resolve in a few days to a week, depending on how badly you damaged the nitrifying bacteria colonies. It doesn't sound like this is your problem. As far as your tap water reading of 0.5ppm of ammonia, that is normal, as a by-product of breaking down the chloramine into chlorine and ammonia, then your dechlor treats the chlorine and your bio-filtration handles the residual ammonia. See my blog article about this topic, "Chlorine-Chloramine Information", which includes copies of correspondence between me and one of the scientists with my local water utility. http://goldlenny.blogspot.com/2007/03/chlorine-chloramine-information.html This is one of the reasons why I strongly encourage folks to "Find Your Tap Water Baseline" http://goldlenny.blogspot.com/2007/05/find-your-tap-source-water-baseline.ht ml so you know these things ahead of time. Now that you have a test kit, do this Tap Water Baseline testing and post your numbers so we can help you determine the best procedures for your tank. For example, if you have a really high PH, then you might have to limit your PWC's to only 10% or no more than 25% since even that little residual ammonia can become toxic at high pH. If your pH is neutral, then that little amount of residual ammonia would not be a problem for the short time that it takes for your biological filtration (nitrifying bacteria) to convert the ammonia. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Courtland Jacob Sent: Saturday, August 15, 2009 9:41 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] tap water ok so I did a water change a few days ago, completely took apart and cleaned out my filter, deep gravel vac, then i tested the water a few hours later and the ammonia was around .25ppm so i was worried i might have screwed up my bio filter or something, I tested the water again today and the ammonia and nitrites are both at 0ppm, so i got curious and tested my tap water, my tap water came out at 0ppm for nitrate and nitrite, but at .5ppm for ammonia, is this bad for the fish, or more importantly... me?

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 42733	From: Courtland Jacob	Date: 8/15/2009
Subject: Re: tap water

ok my base line, Ammonia 0.5ppm, Nitrite 0ppm, Nitrate 0ppm, pH 7.8 I don't have testing stuff for hardness or any others, what else should I be testing for, I have all freshwater, 3 african cichlid tanks and one small beta tank --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@...> wrote: > > As long as you only cleaned your filter media with removed tank water, you > will mostly keep your good nitrifying bacteria alive. Over cleaning can > sometimes cause a mini-cycle where you will get ammonia/nitrite spikes that > will usually resolve in a few days to a week, depending on how badly you > damaged the nitrifying bacteria colonies. It doesn't sound like this is > your problem. > > As far as your tap water reading of 0.5ppm of ammonia, that is normal, as a > by-product of breaking down the chloramine into chlorine and ammonia, then > your dechlor treats the chlorine and your bio-filtration handles the > residual ammonia. See my blog article about this topic, > "Chlorine-Chloramine Information", which includes copies of correspondence > between me and one of the scientists with my local water utility. > > http://goldlenny.blogspot.com/2007/03/chlorine-chloramine-information.html > > This is one of the reasons why I strongly encourage folks to "Find Your Tap > Water Baseline" > http://goldlenny.blogspot.com/2007/05/find-your-tap-source-water-baseline.ht > ml so you know these things ahead of time. Now that you have a test kit, do > this Tap Water Baseline testing and post your numbers so we can help you > determine the best procedures for your tank. For example, if you have a > really high PH, then you might have to limit your PWC's to only 10% or no > more than 25% since even that little residual ammonia can become toxic at > high pH. If your pH is neutral, then that little amount of residual ammonia > would not be a problem for the short time that it takes for your biological > filtration (nitrifying bacteria) to convert the ammonia. > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right > side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) > > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On > Behalf Of Courtland Jacob > Sent: Saturday, August 15, 2009 9:41 AM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Subject: [AquaticLife] tap water > > ok so I did a water change a few days ago, completely took apart and cleaned > out my filter, deep gravel vac, then i tested the water a few hours later > and the ammonia was around .25ppm so i was worried i might have screwed up > my bio filter or something, I tested the water again today and the ammonia > and nitrites are both at 0ppm, so i got curious and tested my tap water, my > tap water came out at 0ppm for nitrate and nitrite, but at .5ppm for > ammonia, is this bad for the fish, or more importantly... me? >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 42734	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 8/15/2009
Subject: Re: tap water

OK. That's good for your initial baseline, right out the tap. Now you need to save that container of water and re-test it again at 24 hours and 48 hours to see if and how much it changes. With that high of a pH, ammonia is more toxic so you do NOT want to do more than a 25% PWC at any one time. A 25% PWC would raise the ammonia level, temporarily, in your tank to 0.125ppm which is OK and that small amount would be quickly converted through the nitrogen cycle as long as you properly clean your filters and do not over clean them. DO NOT do large water changes though unless you use a more expensive dechlor product like Prime which also would treat the ammonia. As long as you do 25% or less, you will be fine with your existing basic dechlor product. Which brand do you use? Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Courtland Jacob Sent: Saturday, August 15, 2009 12:16 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: tap water ok my base line, Ammonia 0.5ppm, Nitrite 0ppm, Nitrate 0ppm, pH 7.8 I don't have testing stuff for hardness or any others, what else should I be testing for, I have all freshwater, 3 african cichlid tanks and one small beta tank --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@...> wrote: > > As long as you only cleaned your filter media with removed tank water, > you will mostly keep your good nitrifying bacteria alive. Over > cleaning can sometimes cause a mini-cycle where you will get > ammonia/nitrite spikes that will usually resolve in a few days to a > week, depending on how badly you damaged the nitrifying bacteria > colonies. It doesn't sound like this is your problem. > > As far as your tap water reading of 0.5ppm of ammonia, that is normal, > as a by-product of breaking down the chloramine into chlorine and > ammonia, then your dechlor treats the chlorine and your bio-filtration > handles the residual ammonia. See my blog article about this topic, > "Chlorine-Chloramine Information", which includes copies of > correspondence between me and one of the scientists with my local water utility. > > http://goldlenny.blogspot.com/2007/03/chlorine-chloramine-information. > html > > This is one of the reasons why I strongly encourage folks to "Find > Your Tap Water Baseline" > http://goldlenny.blogspot.com/2007/05/find-your-tap-source-water-basel > ine.ht ml so you know these things ahead of time. Now that you have a > test kit, do this Tap Water Baseline testing and post your numbers so > we can help you determine the best procedures for your tank. For > example, if you have a really high PH, then you might have to limit > your PWC's to only 10% or no more than 25% since even that little > residual ammonia can become toxic at high pH. If your pH is neutral, > then that little amount of residual ammonia would not be a problem for > the short time that it takes for your biological filtration > (nitrifying bacteria) to convert the ammonia. > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles > referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically > under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) > > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] > On Behalf Of Courtland Jacob > Sent: Saturday, August 15, 2009 9:41 AM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Subject: [AquaticLife] tap water > > ok so I did a water change a few days ago, completely took apart and > cleaned out my filter, deep gravel vac, then i tested the water a few > hours later and the ammonia was around .25ppm so i was worried i might > have screwed up my bio filter or something, I tested the water again > today and the ammonia and nitrites are both at 0ppm, so i got curious > and tested my tap water, my tap water came out at 0ppm for nitrate and > nitrite, but at .5ppm for ammonia, is this bad for the fish, or more importantly... me? > ------------------------------------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the home page. Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com to receive the digest, which includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com for the No E-Mail option where you will still be able to read messages on the group and post replies. Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com to receive individual e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 42735	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 8/15/2009
Subject: Blue Impact: The New England Aquarium Video Tour

This focuses on climate change. Whether you believe the news (and the pseudo-science they use) or you follow real scientists (and their hard facts and conclusions) about climate change, this tour proves to be interesting. You can download it to your computer for watching, or just watch the pieces presented on the site, or, if you are planning a visit, download it onto a portable device and follow along with it at the Aquarium. http://www.neaq.org/visit_planning/tours_and_programs/tours/blue_impact/ index.php http://tinyurl.com/kpjtjj \\Steve//

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 42736	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 8/15/2009
Subject: The New England Aquarium Blogs

Listed here are the blogs of some of the various groups within the New England Aquarium's organization. http://www.neaq.org/education_and_activities/blogs_webcams_videos_and_mo re/index.php http://tinyurl.com/cagrdb \\Steve//

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 42737	From: Troy	Date: 8/16/2009
Subject: Re: Blue Impact: The New England Aquarium Video Tour

Thanks. The only TV I ever watch is what is available via the PC, so I really like stuff like this. Faux news? It’s the only news venue that I know that is consistently contrary to climate science research. The nice thing about science is that you do not have to believe it. My dwarf gourami ate almost all my baby Bolivian rams. Anyone have some good recipes for fry-stuffed dwarf gourami? From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Steve Szabo Sent: Saturday, August 15, 2009 5:43 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Blue Impact: The New England Aquarium Video Tour This focuses on climate change. Whether you believe the news (and the pseudo-science they use) or you follow real scientists (and their hard facts and conclusions) about climate change, this tour proves to be interesting. You can download it to your computer for watching, or just watch the pieces presented on the site, or, if you are planning a visit, download it onto a portable device and follow along with it at the Aquarium. http://www.neaq.org/visit_planning/tours_and_programs/tours/blue_impact/ index.php http://tinyurl.com/kpjtjj \\Steve// [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 42738	From: Leanna	Date: 8/16/2009
Subject: New Tank

haaaay-lo ok so i JUST got a new tank (58 gallon with canister filter and lovley black wood stand) i was wondering what i could put in it along with my current fish i have 2 male fancy guppies 2 female fancy guppies 2 golden chinease alge eaters 1 male sward tail 1 female sward tail and one of my lady guppies just had 13 lovley children. i dont intend on keeping them of them. likely only a cuppel. i would love to get some more fish to fill out my new tank. i LOVE glass cats a dwarf blue gramis.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 42739	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 8/16/2009
Subject: Re: New Tank

glass cats need to be kept in schools of at least 6 to be happy. I would recommend only getting one dwarf gourami as most breeders tend to only sell males and it's hard to get a female to go with your other dwarf gourami's and have less aggression. There needs to be more females than males for gourami's to get along together in a tank. I also love glass cats but they can be sensitive to changing water parameters so make sure the tank is stable before you add them to the tank. Amber Leanna wrote: > > > haaaay-lo > > ok so i JUST got a new tank (58 gallon with canister filter and lovley > black wood stand) > > i was wondering what i could put in it along with my current fish i have > > 2 male fancy guppies > 2 female fancy guppies > 2 golden chinease alge eaters > 1 male sward tail > 1 female sward tail > > and one of my lady guppies just had 13 lovley children. i dont intend > on keeping them of them. likely only a cuppel. > > i would love to get some more fish to fill out my new tank. i LOVE > glass cats a dwarf blue gramis. > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 42740	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 8/16/2009
Subject: Re: New Tank

Leanna, I would move the Chinese algae eaters out, and find them a new home. They are not algae eaters, but will eat the slime off your other fish, to their detriment. If you have enough algae, you can replace them with a group of otocinclus, or a couple of bristle-nose ancistrus (pleco). Dwarf gouramis are nice, particularly if you can find any with a natural coloration. If given enough hiding places in the tank, either via plantings or other décor, they become less than timid, and the male may rule the tank. Your other fish will also benefit from a heavily planted tank, displaying well for you. Since the guppies and swords are basically top level fish, you would want to look for fish that will inhabit the lower two thirds of your tank. With this in mind, you might want to look at the various rasboras that are available in your area. The most common are the Harlequin rasbora. (_Trigonostigma heteromorpha_). A group of zebra fish would also be nice, and they are very active. Stay away from white clouds. They display and do best at 70° and lower, and the fish you would want to keep do better at higher temperatures. What you really need to do is to go visit the stores in your area, see what they have available, choose the fish you think you might like to have, then research them and how they will fit, if they will fit, into your present tank. You can find information many places on the web, but Mongabay and Badman's Fishroom are among the most reliable sources of information. Then, when you have found a good fit, go out and buy the fish, quarantine them and eventually add them to your new tank. \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Leanna Sent: Sunday, August 16, 2009 9:19 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] New Tank haaaay-lo ok so i JUST got a new tank (58 gallon with canister filter and lovley black wood stand) i was wondering what i could put in it along with my current fish i have 2 male fancy guppies 2 female fancy guppies 2 golden chinease alge eaters 1 male sward tail 1 female sward tail and one of my lady guppies just had 13 lovley children. i dont intend on keeping them of them. likely only a cuppel. i would love to get some more fish to fill out my new tank. i LOVE glass cats a dwarf blue gramis.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 42741	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 8/16/2009
Subject: Re: New Tank

Do you like keeping your livebearers (guppies and swordtails)? If so, read over this page of profiles on livebearers. http://fish.mongabay.com/poeciliidae.htm Under each of the profiles for each species, you'll see a SC (Suggested Companions) section with suggestions for other fish species that are usually compatible with these fish. Note that most livebearers, from the two families of fish you have, prefer harder water than many other fish so you would want to keep fish that can also do well in harder water... and that is presuming that you have harder water from your tap. If you are going to keep your livebearers, it's best to either keep all males if you do not want a lot of babies but if you do, then you want at least two females for every male so that the females get some rest from the frisky males. Do you know your tap water baseline parameters for pH, GH and KH? If not, it would be a good idea to find this out now. This way, you can choose fish that will do well in your standard tap water so you do not have to think about altering your water chemistry, which can bring on a whole new list of problems. Here's how to "Find Your Tap Water Baseline"... http://goldlenny.blogspot.com/2007/05/find-your-tap-source-water-baseline.ht ml Since you mentioned Dwarf Blue Gourami's, here is the Mongabay profile on them http://fish.mongabay.com/species/Colisa_lalia.html and as you will see, they do NOT prefer harder water and/or higher pH water, although many of them are adaptive to water parameters outside of their natural waters. There are several species of catfish that share the common name, Glass Catfish, so please try to find out which species is available in your area or that you've seen or read about and then more information can be provided about them. http://www.PlanetCatfish.com is a GREAT resource for information and profiles on specific catfish species. If you go to the Cat-eLog page, you'll see several search options, including one on the left for common names http://www.planetcatfish.com/catelog/common_names.php and if you type in Glass Catfish in the Quick Search field, as you type, you'll see suggestions and there are at least 13 fish with Glass Catfish included in their common name. A search of FishBase.org http://fishbase.org/search.php with Glass Catfish in the common name field yields a long list of fish profiles as well.. with at least 9 or 10 different species having Glass Catfish as their common name or part of their common name. A quick lesson here... when ever you are talking about or asking about either Catfish or Cichlids, it's BEST to list their scientific name... as common names are commonly inaccurate. Last but not least, since you already have your Golden CAE's, http://fish.mongabay.com/species/Gyrinocheilus_aymonieri.html, you'll see that they grow to 11" each and are usually territorial towards their own kind. Have you had them very long? Are they showing this kind of behavior already? What are the dimensions of your 58G tank? Hopefully it's a longer, rather than taller tank but even if a 48" long tank, like a 55G. I see that Oceanic makes a 58G tank which is 36.5" x 18.5" x 21.5" tall and if this is what you have, then you might have some problems with the two CAE's as they get larger and claim their territories. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Leanna Sent: Sunday, August 16, 2009 8:19 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] New Tank haaaay-lo ok so i JUST got a new tank (58 gallon with canister filter and lovley black wood stand) i was wondering what i could put in it along with my current fish i have 2 male fancy guppies 2 female fancy guppies 2 golden chinease alge eaters 1 male sward tail 1 female sward tail and one of my lady guppies just had 13 lovley children. i dont intend on keeping them of them. likely only a cuppel. i would love to get some more fish to fill out my new tank. i LOVE glass cats a dwarf blue gramis.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 42742	From: Leanna	Date: 8/16/2009
Subject: Re: New Tank

i relaly like my CAE they spend all day sucking on my decor and glass. there nonstop. i have the gold ones, there considrably diffrent than the silver ones my mother has some of thows in her tank at work(ugg that things a mess) and they whent from an inch long to about 4 and are still growing. mine havent grown at all and if there not sucking on gunk in my tank there eating the alge waffor i dropt in a s a treat. maby the petstore labled them wrong or your thinking of another fish. thanks to my little guys iv never had an alge problume. oh and to awnser some other questions: i will deffanitly be clycaling my new tank i plann to use my current tanks gravle, decor and eventuly fillter pad to aid in the groth of bacteria. sadly i havent go my tank yet i still have to pay it off but im trying to get every thing planned out before its redy to stock. --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Steve Szabo" <steve@...> wrote: > > Leanna, > > I would move the Chinese algae eaters out, and find them a new home. They are not algae eaters, but will eat the slime off your other fish, to their detriment. If you have enough algae, you can replace them with a group of otocinclus, or a couple of bristle-nose ancistrus (pleco). > > Dwarf gouramis are nice, particularly if you can find any with a natural coloration. If given enough hiding places in the tank, either via plantings or other décor, they become less than timid, and the male may rule the tank. Your other fish will also benefit from a heavily planted tank, displaying well for you. > > Since the guppies and swords are basically top level fish, you would want to look for fish that will inhabit the lower two thirds of your tank. With this in mind, you might want to look at the various rasboras that are available in your area. The most common are the Harlequin rasbora. (_Trigonostigma heteromorpha_). > > A group of zebra fish would also be nice, and they are very active. > > Stay away from white clouds. They display and do best at 70° and lower, and the fish you would want to keep do better at higher temperatures. > > What you really need to do is to go visit the stores in your area, see what they have available, choose the fish you think you might like to have, then research them and how they will fit, if they will fit, into your present tank. You can find information many places on the web, but Mongabay and Badman's Fishroom are among the most reliable sources of information. Then, when you have found a good fit, go out and buy the fish, quarantine them and eventually add them to your new tank. > > \\Steve// > > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Leanna > Sent: Sunday, August 16, 2009 9:19 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Subject: [AquaticLife] New Tank > > haaaay-lo > > ok so i JUST got a new tank (58 gallon with canister filter and lovley black wood stand) > > i was wondering what i could put in it along with my current fish i have > > 2 male fancy guppies > 2 female fancy guppies > 2 golden chinease alge eaters > 1 male sward tail > 1 female sward tail > > and one of my lady guppies just had 13 lovley children. i dont intend on keeping them of them. likely only a cuppel. > > i would love to get some more fish to fill out my new tank. i LOVE glass cats a dwarf blue gramis. >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 42743	From: Courtland Jacob	Date: 8/16/2009
Subject: Re: tap water

novaqua used it from day one --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@...> wrote: > > OK. That's good for your initial baseline, right out the tap. Now you need > to save that container of water and

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 42744	From: Lisa	Date: 8/17/2009
Subject: My fish are dieing!

2 days ago, I found one of my Dalmatian mollies, belly up, and now tonight, my male swordtail. He's appears to have some sort of gold patch on his head? Lisa

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 42745	From: Donna Ransome	Date: 8/17/2009
Subject: Re: New Tank

As CAE’s mature they eat less algae and become more aggressive. I agree with Steve. _____ From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Leanna Sent: Sunday, August 16, 2009 11:47 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: New Tank i relaly like my CAE they spend all day sucking on my decor and glass. there nonstop. i have the gold ones, there considrably diffrent than the silver ones my mother has some of thows in her tank at work(ugg that things a mess) and they whent from an inch long to about 4 and are still growing. mine havent grown at all and if there not sucking on gunk in my tank there eating the alge waffor i dropt in a s a treat. maby the petstore labled them wrong or your thinking of another fish. thanks to my little guys iv never had an alge problume. oh and to awnser some other questions: i will deffanitly be clycaling my new tank i plann to use my current tanks gravle, decor and eventuly fillter pad to aid in the groth of bacteria. sadly i havent go my tank yet i still have to pay it off but im trying to get every thing planned out before its redy to stock. --- In AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com, "Steve Szabo" <steve@...> wrote: > > Leanna, > > I would move the Chinese algae eaters out, and find them a new home. They are not algae eaters, but will eat the slime off your other fish, to their detriment. If you have enough algae, you can replace them with a group of otocinclus, or a couple of bristle-nose ancistrus (pleco). > > Dwarf gouramis are nice, particularly if you can find any with a natural coloration. If given enough hiding places in the tank, either via plantings or other décor, they become less than timid, and the male may rule the tank. Your other fish will also benefit from a heavily planted tank, displaying well for you. > > Since the guppies and swords are basically top level fish, you would want to look for fish that will inhabit the lower two thirds of your tank. With this in mind, you might want to look at the various rasboras that are available in your area. The most common are the Harlequin rasbora. (_Trigonostigma heteromorpha_). > > A group of zebra fish would also be nice, and they are very active. > > Stay away from white clouds. They display and do best at 70° and lower, and the fish you would want to keep do better at higher temperatures. > > What you really need to do is to go visit the stores in your area, see what they have available, choose the fish you think you might like to have, then research them and how they will fit, if they will fit, into your present tank. You can find information many places on the web, but Mongabay and Badman's Fishroom are among the most reliable sources of information. Then, when you have found a good fit, go out and buy the fish, quarantine them and eventually add them to your new tank. > > \\Steve// > > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Leanna > Sent: Sunday, August 16, 2009 9:19 PM > To: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com > Subject: [AquaticLife] New Tank > > haaaay-lo > > ok so i JUST got a new tank (58 gallon with canister filter and lovley black wood stand) > > i was wondering what i could put in it along with my current fish i have > > 2 male fancy guppies > 2 female fancy guppies > 2 golden chinease alge eaters > 1 male sward tail > 1 female sward tail > > and one of my lady guppies just had 13 lovley children. i dont intend on keeping them of them. likely only a cuppel. > > i would love to get some more fish to fill out my new tank. i LOVE glass cats a dwarf blue gramis. > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 42746	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 8/17/2009
Subject: Re: My fish are dieing!

Look at Pandora's Fish Disease page http://preview.tinyurl.com/2m83ee and let us know if the "gold patch" looks like the pictures under the disease, "Velvet", which is the 2nd link in the list near the top of the page, right under Ich. Velvet (Oödinium limneticum) looks like a fine powdered dust which is commonly gold in color but can also be white or gray colored. Usually, you will see the parasite all over a fish but it's possible for it to be isolated to a certain area if it hasn't spread yet. Have you noticed any other symptoms or actions by the fish? Often times, a fish with an external parasite, like Ich or Velvet, will be seen scratching itself on decorations or on the gravel. Have you added any new fish or plants without quarantining them recently? Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Lisa Sent: Monday, August 17, 2009 5:13 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] My fish are dieing! 2 days ago, I found one of my Dalmatian mollies, belly up, and now tonight, my male swordtail. He's appears to have some sort of gold patch on his head? Lisa

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 42747	From: Robb	Date: 8/17/2009
Subject: Water Test Kits.

Like a lot of people that have been in and out of the hobby for the last 25 years I started a new setup and have been doing a fishless cycle and I have a question about test kits. Can they go bad? I mean how do you know if your test kit is working? I have 3 master kits as well as a stand alone Nitrite test kit. The ammonia will reach 2 to 5 after added it to the tank and then with in a few hours it will be back at zero so I know the ammonia test kits are working. The issue here is Nitrite I test with 2 kits and the Nirrite is O PPM, the other one is between 1 and 2 and the next one is between 2 and 3. The PH reads the same between the 3 kits and KH reads the same between the 3 master kits. I'm about at the point to toss all the kits and buy a new one but I thought I'd asked before I toss out $75 worth of testing gear. Oh yeah The kit by Tetra (will neer use again harder to test with) is around 2 years old the other two are much older. The stand alone I have no idea. Robb From Utah

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 42748	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 8/17/2009
Subject: Re: New Tank

Look at the link to the profile from Mongabay and then click on the Pictures link to see pictures of what a CAE looks like... or take pictures of your fish and post them to your own online photo album or to the groups album section and we'll try to identify it. You can also look at the pictures here... http://badmanstropicalfish.com/profiles/profile47.html which has a pic of a normal CAE and a Golden CAE for comparison. This page shows several species of algae eaters. http://www.thekrib.com/Fish/Algae-Eaters/ Of course, your pet store could have certainly been selling something like an Otocinclus as a CAE and Oto's do not get very big.. some stay under an inch. Here's a profile with pics of Otocinclus affinis, which is one of the small species. http://badmanstropicalfish.com/profiles/profile76.html You can also click on the Photo Gallery link to see more pics. Technically, to an untrained person, an Otocinclus affinis could easily be sold as a CAE if they just compare the long dark horizontal stripe on the two fish. Some Oto's do not have the solid black horizontal stripe and might be sold as Golden CAE's by mistake. What size tank do you have now? If you've kept them in an undersized tank, like say a 10G tank for a long time, then they would not have grown normally and could be permanently stunted. They may start to grow again once you move them to a larger tank.. or they could be permanently stunted. If permanently stunted, they will usually have a much shorter lifespan and be more susceptible to diseases so be very careful and properly quarantine any new fish or plants to try and prevent the introduction of new pathogens to your current fish. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Leanna Sent: Sunday, August 16, 2009 10:47 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: New Tank i relaly like my CAE they spend all day sucking on my decor and glass. there nonstop. i have the gold ones, there considrably diffrent than the silver ones my mother has some of thows in her tank at work(ugg that things a mess) and they whent from an inch long to about 4 and are still growing. mine havent grown at all and if there not sucking on gunk in my tank there eating the alge waffor i dropt in a s a treat. maby the petstore labled them wrong or your thinking of another fish. thanks to my little guys iv never had an alge problume. oh and to awnser some other questions: i will deffanitly be clycaling my new tank i plann to use my current tanks gravle, decor and eventuly fillter pad to aid in the groth of bacteria. sadly i havent go my tank yet i still have to pay it off but im trying to get every thing planned out before its redy to stock. --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Steve Szabo" <steve@...> wrote: > > Leanna, > > I would move the Chinese algae eaters out, and find them a new home. They are not algae eaters, but will eat the slime off your other fish, to their detriment. If you have enough algae, you can replace them with a group of otocinclus, or a couple of bristle-nose ancistrus (pleco). > > Dwarf gouramis are nice, particularly if you can find any with a natural coloration. If given enough hiding places in the tank, either via plantings or other décor, they become less than timid, and the male may rule the tank. Your other fish will also benefit from a heavily planted tank, displaying well for you. > > Since the guppies and swords are basically top level fish, you would want to look for fish that will inhabit the lower two thirds of your tank. With this in mind, you might want to look at the various rasboras that are available in your area. The most common are the Harlequin rasbora. (_Trigonostigma heteromorpha_). > > A group of zebra fish would also be nice, and they are very active. > > Stay away from white clouds. They display and do best at 70° and lower, and the fish you would want to keep do better at higher temperatures. > > What you really need to do is to go visit the stores in your area, see what they have available, choose the fish you think you might like to have, then research them and how they will fit, if they will fit, into your present tank. You can find information many places on the web, but Mongabay and Badman's Fishroom are among the most reliable sources of information. Then, when you have found a good fit, go out and buy the fish, quarantine them and eventually add them to your new tank. > > \\Steve// > > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] > On Behalf Of Leanna > Sent: Sunday, August 16, 2009 9:19 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Subject: [AquaticLife] New Tank > > haaaay-lo > > ok so i JUST got a new tank (58 gallon with canister filter and lovley > black wood stand) > > i was wondering what i could put in it along with my current fish i > have > > 2 male fancy guppies > 2 female fancy guppies > 2 golden chinease alge eaters > 1 male sward tail > 1 female sward tail > > and one of my lady guppies just had 13 lovley children. i dont intend on keeping them of them. likely only a cuppel. > > i would love to get some more fish to fill out my new tank. i LOVE glass cats a dwarf blue gramis.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 42749	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 8/17/2009
Subject: Re: Water Test Kits.

Yes, all test kits have expiration dates. Here's an article with more details on how to check them. http://www.cichlid-forum.com/articles/test_kits_life.php IMO, a new master test kit should be purchased every year although some folks might get more life out of them. Since all of your kits are more than two years old, this could be your problem. The good news is that either the API or Tetratest-Laborette master test kits are available for under $20.00 at Walmart.com with free shipping to your local store (unless you live on an island in Alaska like Amber.. lol). With the API kit, you would also want to eventually purchase the GH/KH combo kit. With the T-L kit, you would also want to buy the API nitrate test kit right away. The add-on kits can be found for around $5.00 or less so your overall investment is still under $25.00 for an entire years worth of testing... even with multiple tanks. They are a LOT CHEAPER than test strips and give better test results. Not properly shaking the reagents before each use can also cause problems with getting accurate readings and once this mistake has been made once, where the test drops were not mixed properly, then the rest of the solution in the bottle is also out of proper percentage of ingredients and will likely give inaccurate results. Here's some other articles about this problem. http://www.taylortechnologies.com/learnmore_chem_shelf.asp?Print=true http://www.lamotte.com/pages/edu/shellife.html http://www.hach.com/hc/view.knowledge.base.detail.invoker/PackagingCode%3DGE NERAL-REAG_2/NewLinkLabel%3DShelf%2Blife%2Bof%2Breagents Now... to your cycling issues. What are your test results for ammonia, nitrite, nitrate and pH? Since your ammonia is cycling from 5ppm to 0ppm in a few hours, there's a chance that any nitrite created by the ammonia eating bacteria might be instantly converting to nitrate by nitrite eating bacteria. How long have you been fishless cycling and did you seed the filter with some cycled filter media or start from scratch? Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Robb Sent: Monday, August 17, 2009 11:25 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Water Test Kits. Like a lot of people that have been in and out of the hobby for the last 25 years I started a new setup and have been doing a fishless cycle and I have a question about test kits. Can they go bad? I mean how do you know if your test kit is working? I have 3 master kits as well as a stand alone Nitrite test kit. The ammonia will reach 2 to 5 after added it to the tank and then with in a few hours it will be back at zero so I know the ammonia test kits are working. The issue here is Nitrite I test with 2 kits and the Nirrite is O PPM, the other one is between 1 and 2 and the next one is between 2 and 3. The PH reads the same between the 3 kits and KH reads the same between the 3 master kits. I'm about at the point to toss all the kits and buy a new one but I thought I'd asked before I toss out $75 worth of testing gear. Oh yeah The kit by Tetra (will neer use again harder to test with) is around 2 years old the other two are much older. The stand alone I have no idea. Robb From Utah

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 42750	From: Courtland Jacob	Date: 8/17/2009
Subject: tetra safe start

does it work, yes or no?

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 42751	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 8/17/2009
Subject: Re: tetra safe start

Yes and no... mostly yes. I just don't like promoting Tetra due to some of the other CRAP that they sell (like Easy Balance) and the horrible advice they give out to people who sign up on their website.. like changing out filters every month and only doing PWC's once a month or not doing PWC's at all for six months when using their crappie product, Easy Balance. Simply bad stuff!!!! Tetra bought out Marineland a while back and got the use of the patent on Bio-Spira, originally invented by Dr. Tim Hovanec when he was chief science officer with Marineland. He now has his own company, http://www.DrTimsAquatics.com and if you can buy his improved version of Bio-Spira, now called One And Only, that would be better. If you can only get the Tetra Safe Start, then that is still OK. BUT.. the bigger question is why? If I'm not mistaken, you already have one or more tanks running and it would be easier/better for you to just use some of your existing filter media to start up the cycling of a new tank and then you could feed it plain ammonia and within a few days to a week, it would be fully cycled for up to 5ppm of ammonia per day and that is all you would need to add a full bioload of fish to the new tank. Of course, if you want it faster and want to add all your fish tomorrow, then you would need to use One And Only or Safe Start... but if you use either of them, you have to add the fish by the next day... otherwise the bacteria would start to die off unless you fed them with plain ammonia every day... and if you're going to do that, then you might as well just do that with some cycled filter media added to your new filter and quick cycle it yourself. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Courtland Jacob Sent: Monday, August 17, 2009 1:44 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] tetra safe start does it work, yes or no?

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 42752	From: Deenerz@aol.com	Date: 8/17/2009
Subject: Re: New Tank

I have seen CAE's latched on to the sides of goldfish in chain pet stores. The staff was completely oblivious to it. -Mike -----Original Message----- From: Donna Ransome <djransome@...> To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Mon, Aug 17, 2009 4:11 am Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: New Tank As CAE’s mature they eat less algae and become more aggressive. I agree with Steve. _____ From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Leanna Sent: Sunday, August 16, 2009 11:47 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: New Tank i relaly like my CAE they spend all day sucking on my decor and glass. there nonstop. i have the gold ones, there considrably diffrent than the silver ones my mother has some of thows in her tank at work(ugg that things a mess) and they whent from an inch long to about 4 and are still growing. mine havent grown at all and if there not sucking on gunk in my tank there eating the alge waffor i dropt in a s a treat. maby the petstore labled them wrong or your thinking of another fish. thanks to my little guys iv never had an alge problume. oh and to awnser some other questions: i will deffanitly be clycaling my new tank i plann to use my current tanks gravle, decor and eventuly fillter pad to aid in the groth of bacteria. sadly i havent go my tank yet i still have to pay it off but im trying to get every thing planned out before its redy to stock. --- In Aqua ticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com, "Steve Szabo" <steve@...> wrote: > > Leanna, > > I would move the Chinese algae eaters out, and find them a new home. They are not algae eaters, but will eat the slime off your other fish, to their detriment. If you have enough algae, you can replace them with a group of otocinclus, or a couple of bristle-nose ancistrus (pleco). > > Dwarf gouramis are nice, particularly if you can find any with a natural coloration. If given enough hiding places in the tank, either via plantings or other décor, they become less than timid, and the male may rule the tank. Your other fish will also benefit from a heavily planted tank, displaying well for you. > > Since the guppies and swords are basically top level fish, you would want to look for fish that will inhabit the lower two thirds of your tank. With this in mind, you might want to look at the various rasboras that are available in your area. The most common are the Harlequin rasbora. (_Trigonostigma heteromorpha_). > > A group of zebra fish would also be nice, and they are very active. > > Stay away from white clouds. They display and do best at 70° and lower, and the fish you would want to keep do better at higher temperatures. > > What you really need to do is to go visit the stores in your area, see what they have available, choose the fish you think you might like to have, then research them and how they will fit, if they will fit, into your presen t tank. You can find information many places on the web, but Mongabay and Badman's Fishroom are among the most reliable sources of information. Then, when you have found a good fit, go out and buy the fish, quarantine them and eventually add them to your new tank. > > \\Steve// > > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Leanna > Sent: Sunday, August 16, 2009 9:19 PM > To: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com > Subject: [AquaticLife] New Tank > > haaaay-lo > > ok so i JUST got a new tank (58 gallon with canister filter and lovley black wood stand) > > i was wondering what i could put in it along with my current fish i have > > 2 male fancy guppies > 2 female fancy guppies > 2 golden chinease alge eaters > 1 male sward tail > 1 female sward tail > > and one of my lady guppies just had 13 lovley children. i dont intend on keeping them of them. likely only a cuppel. > > i would love to get some more fish to fill out my new tank. i LOVE glass cats a dwarf blue gramis. > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 42753	From: Robb	Date: 8/17/2009
Subject: Re: Water Test Kits.

I bought a new test kit from PetSmart. The Ph has always been high.Have been testing RO water with a mixture of TAP and doing a 50/50 will give me a PH of about 7.2. I will be doing the 50/50 mix, but will wait until the tank cycles before I add the RO water. PH 8.4 to 8.8 With High Ranger test kit Nitrite .5 Ammonia 0 Nitrate 5.0 - 10.0 Tap (treated) and R/0 50/50 mix 7.2 GH Tap R/O Mix 110 PPM Been running the temp at 82 during the fishless cycle that started 9 days ago. --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@...> wrote: > > Yes, all test kits have expiration dates. Here's an article with more > details on how to check them. > http://www.cichlid-forum.com/articles/test_kits_life.php > > IMO, a new master test kit should be purchased every year although some > folks might get more life out of them. Since all of your kits are more than > two years old, this could be your problem. The good news is that either the > API or Tetratest-Laborette master test kits are available for under $20.00 > at Walmart.com with free shipping to your local store (unless you live on an > island in Alaska like Amber.. lol). With the API kit, you would also want > to eventually purchase the GH/KH combo kit. With the T-L kit, you would > also want to buy the API nitrate test kit right away. The add-on kits can > be found for around $5.00 or less so your overall investment is still under > $25.00 for an entire years worth of testing... even with multiple tanks. > They are a LOT CHEAPER than test strips and give better test results. > > Not properly shaking the reagents before each use can also cause problems > with getting accurate readings and once this mistake has been made once, > where the test drops were not mixed properly, then the rest of the solution > in the bottle is also out of proper percentage of ingredients and will > likely give inaccurate results. > > Here's some other articles about this problem. > http://www.taylortechnologies.com/learnmore_chem_shelf.asp?Print=true > http://www.lamotte.com/pages/edu/shellife.html > http://www.hach.com/hc/view.knowledge.base.detail.invoker/PackagingCode%3DGE > NERAL-REAG_2/NewLinkLabel%3DShelf%2Blife%2Bof%2Breagents > > Now... to your cycling issues. > > What are your test results for ammonia, nitrite, nitrate and pH? Since your > ammonia is cycling from 5ppm to 0ppm in a few hours, there's a chance that > any nitrite created by the ammonia eating bacteria might be instantly > converting to nitrate by nitrite eating bacteria. > > How long have you been fishless cycling and did you seed the filter with > some cycled filter media or start from scratch? > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right > side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On > Behalf Of Robb > Sent: Monday, August 17, 2009 11:25 AM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Subject: [AquaticLife] Water Test Kits. > > Like a lot of people that have been in and out of the hobby for the last 25 > years I started a new setup and have been doing a fishless cycle and I have > a question about test kits. > > Can they go bad? I mean how do you know if your test kit is working? I have > 3 master kits as well as a stand alone Nitrite test kit. > > The ammonia will reach 2 to 5 after added it to the tank and then with in a > few hours it will be back at zero so I know the ammonia test kits are > working. > > The issue here is Nitrite I test with 2 kits and the Nirrite is O PPM, the > other one is between 1 and 2 and the next one is between 2 and 3. > > The PH reads the same between the 3 kits and KH reads the same between the 3 > master kits. > > I'm about at the point to toss all the kits and buy a new one but I thought > I'd asked before I toss out $75 worth of testing gear. > > Oh yeah The kit by Tetra (will neer use again harder to test with) is around > 2 years old the other two are much older. The stand alone I have no idea. > > Robb From Utah >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 42754	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 8/17/2009
Subject: Re: Water Test Kits.

What is your tap water baseline before adding RO water? Do you want a higher pH or is what you have already satisfactory for the fish you plan on keeping? Do you plan on freshwater or saltwater? Amber Robb wrote: > > > I bought a new test kit from PetSmart. > > The Ph has always been high.Have been testing RO water with a mixture > of TAP and doing a 50/50 will give me a PH of about 7.2. I will be > doing the 50/50 mix, but will wait until the tank cycles before I add > the RO water. > > PH 8.4 to 8.8 With High Ranger test kit > Nitrite .5 > Ammonia 0 > Nitrate 5.0 - 10.0 > > Tap (treated) and R/0 50/50 mix 7.2 > GH Tap R/O Mix 110 PPM > > Been running the temp at 82 during the fishless cycle that started 9 > days ago. > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>, "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" > <GoldLenny@...> wrote: > > > > Yes, all test kits have expiration dates. Here's an article with more > > details on how to check them. > > http://www.cichlid-forum.com/articles/test_kits_life.php > <http://www.cichlid-forum.com/articles/test_kits_life.php> > > > > IMO, a new master test kit should be purchased every year although some > > folks might get more life out of them. Since all of your kits are > more than > > two years old, this could be your problem. The good news is that > either the > > API or Tetratest-Laborette master test kits are available for under > $20.00 > > at Walmart.com with free shipping to your local store (unless you > live on an > > island in Alaska like Amber.. lol). With the API kit, you would also > want > > to eventually purchase the GH/KH combo kit. With the T-L kit, you would > > also want to buy the API nitrate test kit right away. The add-on > kits can > > be found for around $5.00 or less so your overall investment is > still under > > $25.00 for an entire years worth of testing... even with multiple tanks. > > They are a LOT CHEAPER than test strips and give better test results. > > > > Not properly shaking the reagents before each use can also cause > problems > > with getting accurate readings and once this mistake has been made once, > > where the test drops were not mixed properly, then the rest of the > solution > > in the bottle is also out of proper percentage of ingredients and will > > likely give inaccurate results. > > > > Here's some other articles about this problem. > > > http://www.taylortechnologies.com/learnmore_chem_shelf.asp?Print=true > <http://www.taylortechnologies.com/learnmore_chem_shelf.asp?Print=true> > > http://www.lamotte.com/pages/edu/shellife.html > <http://www.lamotte.com/pages/edu/shellife.html> > > > http://www.hach.com/hc/view.knowledge.base.detail.invoker/PackagingCode%3DGE > <http://www.hach.com/hc/view.knowledge.base.detail.invoker/PackagingCode%3DGE> > > NERAL-REAG_2/NewLinkLabel%3DShelf%2Blife%2Bof%2Breagents > > > > Now... to your cycling issues. > > > > What are your test results for ammonia, nitrite, nitrate and pH? > Since your > > ammonia is cycling from 5ppm to 0ppm in a few hours, there's a > chance that > > any nitrite created by the ammonia eating bacteria might be instantly > > converting to nitrate by nitrite eating bacteria. > > > > How long have you been fishless cycling and did you seed the filter with > > some cycled filter media or start from scratch? > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right > > side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, > Month) > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On > > Behalf Of Robb > > Sent: Monday, August 17, 2009 11:25 AM > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > Subject: [AquaticLife] Water Test Kits. > > > > Like a lot of people that have been in and out of the hobby for the > last 25 > > years I started a new setup and have been doing a fishless cycle and > I have > > a question about test kits. > > > > Can they go bad? I mean how do you know if your test kit is working? > I have > > 3 master kits as well as a stand alone Nitrite test kit. > > > > The ammonia will reach 2 to 5 after added it to the tank and then > with in a > > few hours it will be back at zero so I know the ammonia test kits are > > working. > > > > The issue here is Nitrite I test with 2 kits and the Nirrite is O > PPM, the > > other one is between 1 and 2 and the next one is between 2 and 3. > > > > The PH reads the same between the 3 kits and KH reads the same > between the 3 > > master kits. > > > > I'm about at the point to toss all the kits and buy a new one but I > thought > > I'd asked before I toss out $75 worth of testing gear. > > > > Oh yeah The kit by Tetra (will neer use again harder to test with) > is around > > 2 years old the other two are much older. The stand alone I have no > idea. > > > > Robb From Utah > > > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 42755	From: Robb	Date: 8/17/2009
Subject: Re: Water Test Kits.

Tap water is 220 GH and about 8.4 - 8.8 PH. My tap water PH is very high as well as the hardness with the R/O mixed at 50/50 I get PF down to about 7.2 and GH down to about 110. I have not fully decided on what I'm going to keep in the tank. Getting the cycle down done and then will hit the fish store. I have looked at everything from Gold fish to Cichlid. Not ready for salt water and not sure I ever will be. I just know for most of the fish out there PH around 7.0 would be better. I have had a 5 gallon set up for 3 weeks with a 50/50 mix or RO and TAP and the PH has always stied the same. --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, Amber Berglund <arberglund@...> wrote: > > What is your tap water baseline before adding RO water? > Do you want a higher pH or is what you have already satisfactory for the > fish you plan on keeping? > Do you plan on freshwater or saltwater? > > Amber > > Robb wrote: > > > > > > I bought a new test kit from PetSmart. > > > > The Ph has always been high.Have been testing RO water with a mixture > > of TAP and doing a 50/50 will give me a PH of about 7.2. I will be > > doing the 50/50 mix, but will wait until the tank cycles before I add > > the RO water. > > > > PH 8.4 to 8.8 With High Ranger test kit > > Nitrite .5 > > Ammonia 0 > > Nitrate 5.0 - 10.0 > > > > Tap (treated) and R/0 50/50 mix 7.2 > > GH Tap R/O Mix 110 PPM > > > > Been running the temp at 82 during the fishless cycle that started 9 > > days ago. > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>, "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" > > <GoldLenny@> wrote: > > > > > > Yes, all test kits have expiration dates. Here's an article with more > > > details on how to check them. > > > http://www.cichlid-forum.com/articles/test_kits_life.php > > <http://www.cichlid-forum.com/articles/test_kits_life.php> > > > > > > IMO, a new master test kit should be purchased every year although some > > > folks might get more life out of them. Since all of your kits are > > more than > > > two years old, this could be your problem. The good news is that > > either the > > > API or Tetratest-Laborette master test kits are available for under > > $20.00 > > > at Walmart.com with free shipping to your local store (unless you > > live on an > > > island in Alaska like Amber.. lol). With the API kit, you would also > > want > > > to eventually purchase the GH/KH combo kit. With the T-L kit, you would > > > also want to buy the API nitrate test kit right away. The add-on > > kits can > > > be found for around $5.00 or less so your overall investment is > > still under > > > $25.00 for an entire years worth of testing... even with multiple tanks. > > > They are a LOT CHEAPER than test strips and give better test results. > > > > > > Not properly shaking the reagents before each use can also cause > > problems > > > with getting accurate readings and once this mistake has been made once, > > > where the test drops were not mixed properly, then the rest of the > > solution > > > in the bottle is also out of proper percentage of ingredients and will > > > likely give inaccurate results. > > > > > > Here's some other articles about this problem. > > > > > http://www.taylortechnologies.com/learnmore_chem_shelf.asp?Print=true > > <http://www.taylortechnologies.com/learnmore_chem_shelf.asp?Print=true> > > > http://www.lamotte.com/pages/edu/shellife.html > > <http://www.lamotte.com/pages/edu/shellife.html> > > > > > http://www.hach.com/hc/view.knowledge.base.detail.invoker/PackagingCode%3DGE > > <http://www.hach.com/hc/view.knowledge.base.detail.invoker/PackagingCode%3DGE> > > > NERAL-REAG_2/NewLinkLabel%3DShelf%2Blife%2Bof%2Breagents > > > > > > Now... to your cycling issues. > > > > > > What are your test results for ammonia, nitrite, nitrate and pH? > > Since your > > > ammonia is cycling from 5ppm to 0ppm in a few hours, there's a > > chance that > > > any nitrite created by the ammonia eating bacteria might be instantly > > > converting to nitrate by nitrite eating bacteria. > > > > > > How long have you been fishless cycling and did you seed the filter with > > > some cycled filter media or start from scratch? > > > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right > > > side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, > > Month) > > > > > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On > > > Behalf Of Robb > > > Sent: Monday, August 17, 2009 11:25 AM > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > Subject: [AquaticLife] Water Test Kits. > > > > > > Like a lot of people that have been in and out of the hobby for the > > last 25 > > > years I started a new setup and have been doing a fishless cycle and > > I have > > > a question about test kits. > > > > > > Can they go bad? I mean how do you know if your test kit is working? > > I have > > > 3 master kits as well as a stand alone Nitrite test kit. > > > > > > The ammonia will reach 2 to 5 after added it to the tank and then > > with in a > > > few hours it will be back at zero so I know the ammonia test kits are > > > working. > > > > > > The issue here is Nitrite I test with 2 kits and the Nirrite is O > > PPM, the > > > other one is between 1 and 2 and the next one is between 2 and 3. > > > > > > The PH reads the same between the 3 kits and KH reads the same > > between the 3 > > > master kits. > > > > > > I'm about at the point to toss all the kits and buy a new one but I > > thought > > > I'd asked before I toss out $75 worth of testing gear. > > > > > > Oh yeah The kit by Tetra (will neer use again harder to test with) > > is around > > > 2 years old the other two are much older. The stand alone I have no > > idea. > > > > > > Robb From Utah > > > > > > > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 42756	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 8/17/2009
Subject: Re: Water Test Kits.

Did you seed the new tank's filter? You never answered that question. If you didn't, then this would be a very fast cycle... much faster than possible without seeding, so I'm going to presume you did seed the filter with some cycled filter media. If you did seed the filter, then you are nearing completion of the fishless cycling process. Continue to feed it 5ppm of ammonia each day until you are ready to add your full bioload of fish. Then do a 90% water change and you are ready to add your fish. DO NOT do any kind of filter cleaning/maintenance until you are ready to do your first weekly PWC, then follow the directions on my blog for filter cleaning and maintenance so you do not over-harm your nitrifying bacteria colonies that you spent so much time building. Since you mentioned both Goldfish and Cichlids, you could go with either Goldfish or African Rift Lake Cichlids and either would do find in your baseline water without the need to do the RO mixture. It's certainly up to you, but with the wide variety of fish available that do well with your tap water baseline, it sure would be simpler to not have to worry about doing RO water all the time. One other thing, you need to do a 48 hour tap water baseline, not right out the tap. Quite often, things will change, sometimes dramatically after the tap water is out of the pipes for 48 hours. You could end up with a much lower pH.... or higher... same for GH and KH. You do not mention a KH reading. Did you buy the test strips or a master test kit that uses test tubes and reagent drops/powders? Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Robb Sent: Monday, August 17, 2009 3:19 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Water Test Kits. I bought a new test kit from PetSmart. The Ph has always been high.Have been testing RO water with a mixture of TAP and doing a 50/50 will give me a PH of about 7.2. I will be doing the 50/50 mix, but will wait until the tank cycles before I add the RO water. PH 8.4 to 8.8 With High Ranger test kit Nitrite .5 Ammonia 0 Nitrate 5.0 - 10.0 Tap (treated) and R/0 50/50 mix 7.2 GH Tap R/O Mix 110 PPM Been running the temp at 82 during the fishless cycle that started 9 days ago. --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@...> wrote: > > Yes, all test kits have expiration dates. Here's an article with more > details on how to check them. > http://www.cichlid-forum.com/articles/test_kits_life.php > > IMO, a new master test kit should be purchased every year although > some folks might get more life out of them. Since all of your kits > are more than two years old, this could be your problem. The good > news is that either the API or Tetratest-Laborette master test kits > are available for under $20.00 at Walmart.com with free shipping to > your local store (unless you live on an island in Alaska like Amber.. > lol). With the API kit, you would also want to eventually purchase > the GH/KH combo kit. With the T-L kit, you would also want to buy the > API nitrate test kit right away. The add-on kits can be found for > around $5.00 or less so your overall investment is still under $25.00 for an entire years worth of testing... even with multiple tanks. > They are a LOT CHEAPER than test strips and give better test results. > > Not properly shaking the reagents before each use can also cause > problems with getting accurate readings and once this mistake has been > made once, where the test drops were not mixed properly, then the rest > of the solution in the bottle is also out of proper percentage of > ingredients and will likely give inaccurate results. > > Here's some other articles about this problem. > http://www.taylortechnologies.com/learnmore_chem_shelf.asp?Print=true > http://www.lamotte.com/pages/edu/shellife.html > http://www.hach.com/hc/view.knowledge.base.detail.invoker/PackagingCod > e%3DGE NERAL-REAG_2/NewLinkLabel%3DShelf%2Blife%2Bof%2Breagents > > Now... to your cycling issues. > > What are your test results for ammonia, nitrite, nitrate and pH? > Since your ammonia is cycling from 5ppm to 0ppm in a few hours, > there's a chance that any nitrite created by the ammonia eating > bacteria might be instantly converting to nitrate by nitrite eating bacteria. > > How long have you been fishless cycling and did you seed the filter > with some cycled filter media or start from scratch? > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles > referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically > under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] > On Behalf Of Robb > Sent: Monday, August 17, 2009 11:25 AM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Subject: [AquaticLife] Water Test Kits. > > Like a lot of people that have been in and out of the hobby for the > last 25 years I started a new setup and have been doing a fishless > cycle and I have a question about test kits. > > Can they go bad? I mean how do you know if your test kit is working? I > have > 3 master kits as well as a stand alone Nitrite test kit. > > The ammonia will reach 2 to 5 after added it to the tank and then with > in a few hours it will be back at zero so I know the ammonia test kits > are working. > > The issue here is Nitrite I test with 2 kits and the Nirrite is O PPM, > the other one is between 1 and 2 and the next one is between 2 and 3. > > The PH reads the same between the 3 kits and KH reads the same between > the 3 master kits. > > I'm about at the point to toss all the kits and buy a new one but I > thought I'd asked before I toss out $75 worth of testing gear. > > Oh yeah The kit by Tetra (will neer use again harder to test with) is > around > 2 years old the other two are much older. The stand alone I have no idea. > > Robb From Utah

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 42757	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 8/17/2009
Subject: Re: Water Test Kits.

With your water, you would probably want to look at the Rift lake cichlids from Africa. Then you would not need to go through the hassle of running the RO unit and then reconstituting your water for the fish. You could just use the wt eras it comes out of the tap. If you do not like the rift lake fish, then look into livebearers. There are many more than the usual guppies, mollies and swordtails that everyone seems to keep. Many of them would appreciate your water as it is. \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Robb Sent: Monday, August 17, 2009 6:51 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Water Test Kits. Tap water is 220 GH and about 8.4 - 8.8 PH. My tap water PH is very high as well as the hardness with the R/O mixed at 50/50 I get PF down to about 7.2 and GH down to about 110. I have not fully decided on what I'm going to keep in the tank. Getting the cycle down done and then will hit the fish store. I have looked at everything from Gold fish to Cichlid. Not ready for salt water and not sure I ever will be. I just know for most of the fish out there PH around 7.0 would be better. I have had a 5 gallon set up for 3 weeks with a 50/50 mix or RO and TAP and the PH has always stied the same. --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, Amber Berglund <arberglund@...> wrote: > > What is your tap water baseline before adding RO water? > Do you want a higher pH or is what you have already satisfactory for the > fish you plan on keeping? > Do you plan on freshwater or saltwater? > > Amber > > Robb wrote: > > > > > > I bought a new test kit from PetSmart. > > > > The Ph has always been high.Have been testing RO water with a mixture > > of TAP and doing a 50/50 will give me a PH of about 7.2. I will be > > doing the 50/50 mix, but will wait until the tank cycles before I add > > the RO water. > > > > PH 8.4 to 8.8 With High Ranger test kit > > Nitrite .5 > > Ammonia 0 > > Nitrate 5.0 - 10.0 > > > > Tap (treated) and R/0 50/50 mix 7.2 > > GH Tap R/O Mix 110 PPM > > > > Been running the temp at 82 during the fishless cycle that started 9 > > days ago. > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>, "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" > > <GoldLenny@> wrote: > > > > > > Yes, all test kits have expiration dates. Here's an article with more > > > details on how to check them. > > > http://www.cichlid-forum.com/articles/test_kits_life.php > > <http://www.cichlid-forum.com/articles/test_kits_life.php> > > > > > > IMO, a new master test kit should be purchased every year although some > > > folks might get more life out of them. Since all of your kits are > > more than > > > two years old, this could be your problem. The good news is that > > either the > > > API or Tetratest-Laborette master test kits are available for under > > $20.00 > > > at Walmart.com with free shipping to your local store (unless you > > live on an > > > island in Alaska like Amber.. lol). With the API kit, you would also > > want > > > to eventually purchase the GH/KH combo kit. With the T-L kit, you would > > > also want to buy the API nitrate test kit right away. The add-on > > kits can > > > be found for around $5.00 or less so your overall investment is > > still under > > > $25.00 for an entire years worth of testing... even with multiple tanks. > > > They are a LOT CHEAPER than test strips and give better test results. > > > > > > Not properly shaking the reagents before each use can also cause > > problems > > > with getting accurate readings and once this mistake has been made once, > > > where the test drops were not mixed properly, then the rest of the > > solution > > > in the bottle is also out of proper percentage of ingredients and will > > > likely give inaccurate results. > > > > > > Here's some other articles about this problem. > > > > > http://www.taylortechnologies.com/learnmore_chem_shelf.asp?Print=true > > <http://www.taylortechnologies.com/learnmore_chem_shelf.asp?Print=true> > > > http://www.lamotte.com/pages/edu/shellife.html > > <http://www.lamotte.com/pages/edu/shellife.html> > > > > > http://www.hach.com/hc/view.knowledge.base.detail.invoker/PackagingCode% 3DGE > > <http://www.hach.com/hc/view.knowledge.base.detail.invoker/PackagingCode %3DGE> > > > NERAL-REAG_2/NewLinkLabel%3DShelf%2Blife%2Bof%2Breagents > > > > > > Now... to your cycling issues. > > > > > > What are your test results for ammonia, nitrite, nitrate and pH? > > Since your > > > ammonia is cycling from 5ppm to 0ppm in a few hours, there's a > > chance that > > > any nitrite created by the ammonia eating bacteria might be instantly > > > converting to nitrate by nitrite eating bacteria. > > > > > > How long have you been fishless cycling and did you seed the filter with > > > some cycled filter media or start from scratch? > > > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right > > > side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, > > Month) > > > > > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On > > > Behalf Of Robb > > > Sent: Monday, August 17, 2009 11:25 AM > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > Subject: [AquaticLife] Water Test Kits. > > > > > > Like a lot of people that have been in and out of the hobby for the > > last 25 > > > years I started a new setup and have been doing a fishless cycle and > > I have > > > a question about test kits. > > > > > > Can they go bad? I mean how do you know if your test kit is working? > > I have > > > 3 master kits as well as a stand alone Nitrite test kit. > > > > > > The ammonia will reach 2 to 5 after added it to the tank and then > > with in a > > > few hours it will be back at zero so I know the ammonia test kits are > > > working. > > > > > > The issue here is Nitrite I test with 2 kits and the Nirrite is O > > PPM, the > > > other one is between 1 and 2 and the next one is between 2 and 3. > > > > > > The PH reads the same between the 3 kits and KH reads the same > > between the 3 > > > master kits. > > > > > > I'm about at the point to toss all the kits and buy a new one but I > > thought > > > I'd asked before I toss out $75 worth of testing gear. > > > > > > Oh yeah The kit by Tetra (will neer use again harder to test with) > > is around > > > 2 years old the other two are much older. The stand alone I have no > > idea. > > > > > > Robb From Utah > > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 42758	From: Troy	Date: 8/17/2009
Subject: Will a dwarf gourami eat itself to death?

I had a Dwarf Gourami in a 50 gal with two breeding pairs of Bolivian Rams. The Rams have recently spawned and they had a nice brood of babies swimming around. Then the Dwarf Gourami finally noticed over a short span apparently ate all of the little Rams. Today, my daughter found the Gourami face down in the substrate, he having died. Will a fish, a Dwarf Gourmai in particular, eat itself to death? Thanks. Troy [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 42759	From: Lisa	Date: 8/17/2009
Subject: Re: My fish are dieing!

They others seem to be acting like normal The only new plant in there is a Wisteria that floats. No new fish had been added. Both the Molli and the male swordtail were on top of this plant at the waters surfce when i found them. Could this be behaviour like an elephant? They know they're going to die, so they hide? These ar ethe resaults BEFORE i did a pwc Temp – 25* 77 F PH – 7 Amonia – 0.05 KH – 35.8 Niterite – 0 ppm Niterate - 0 ppm The amonia for 5 - 6 days is normally 0.00ppm, it's really only the last couple of days before the pwc that i sometimes get this reading. And the tank is due for it's clean today. And everytime i do a pwc, the amonia always drops back to 0.00ppm Lisa

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 42760	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 8/17/2009
Subject: Re: Will a dwarf gourami eat itself to death?

In nature, they are omnivores, mostly leaning towards the carnivore end of the food spectrum but if they were not use to high protein foods, I guess there is always a chance of them getting constipated but that will not usually kill a fish so quickly and you would normally see the fish acting sick and see the bloating and be able to treat the constipation. I'm presuming you saw none of this? Meaning that one day it was healthy and fine, the next day dead??? Did you see any evidence of the Dwarf Gourami being in a fish fight... where the parent Rams might have gone after it for attacking their spawn? Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Troy Sent: Monday, August 17, 2009 9:18 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Will a dwarf gourami eat itself to death? I had a Dwarf Gourami in a 50 gal with two breeding pairs of Bolivian Rams. The Rams have recently spawned and they had a nice brood of babies swimming around. Then the Dwarf Gourami finally noticed over a short span apparently ate all of the little Rams. Today, my daughter found the Gourami face down in the substrate, he having died. Will a fish, a Dwarf Gourmai in particular, eat itself to death? Thanks. Troy

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 42761	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 8/17/2009
Subject: Re: My fish are dieing!

Most fish (and most animals) will try to hide when they are feeling sick. This is a natural reaction, since in the wild, a sick or injured fish is more likely to become a meal for a predator. Basic Darwinism... survival of the fittest. For some reason, unless your have a LOT of plants, your tank does not seem to be cycling properly. You should ALWAYS have 0.0ppm for ammonia and nitrite and then your nitrate reading should constantly rise in between PWC's. In a heavily planted tank or very lightly stocked tank, the nitrates will stay very low but NOT usually at 0.0ppm. To me, this 0.0ppm reading for nitrates and an ammonia reading means your tank is not cycled. Since your pH is only 7.0, this low level of ammonia isn't really dangerous at a low pH. Even low levels of ammonia becomes much more toxic as the pH rises into the high 7's or 8's. PLEASE NOTE THAT YOU LISTED YOUR AMMONIA AT 0.05PPM BUT I THINK YOU MADE A TYPO SINCE MOST TEST KITS WILL TEST AT 0.0, THEN 0.25, THEN 0.5, ETC... NOT AS LOW AS 0.05PPM. Please check the expiration dates on your test kit to make sure you are getting accurate readings and/or get a second opinion for your water tests. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Lisa Sent: Monday, August 17, 2009 9:17 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: My fish are dieing! They others seem to be acting like normal The only new plant in there is a Wisteria that floats. No new fish had been added. Both the Molli and the male swordtail were on top of this plant at the waters surfce when i found them. Could this be behaviour like an elephant? They know they're going to die, so they hide? These ar ethe resaults BEFORE i did a pwc Temp - 25* 77 F PH - 7 Amonia - 0.05 KH - 35.8 Niterite - 0 ppm Niterate - 0 ppm The amonia for 5 - 6 days is normally 0.00ppm, it's really only the last couple of days before the pwc that i sometimes get this reading. And the tank is due for it's clean today. And everytime i do a pwc, the amonia always drops back to 0.00ppm Lisa

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 42762	From: Robb	Date: 8/17/2009
Subject: Re: Water Test Kits.

First off No this was a start from scratch cycle. My old tank cracked during the set up process so the tank is new, I bought a 305 Canister filter new. I also sued my Emperor 400 filter and it has new media. The gravel was washed very good to make sure all the old stuff was out off that. I started the cycle off with ammonia and it hit about 5 or 6 ppm and I added about 4 tea spoons full a day and on day 4 I say Nitrite. I still added the ammonia and on day 7 my Nitrite was at 5 ppm and now it's at .5 to 1 and I have still be added ammonia With the water as hard as it is and the PH as high as it is I was assuming by all I have read that both would be to high for gold fish. I have 5 7 gallon jugs that I treat the tap water and they sit out between watter changes so yes my tap water is aged. I d not have a KH test just a water hardness test kit. I did order a GH and KH test tit today from Big Al's. All my test kits are the master test kits. The strips just didn't work well for me. The master kits are the drops. After reading you Gold Fish sections on your blog I'm starting to really second guess myself on weather I even want to try goldfish. I have a 55 gal tank and no room for anything larger so I really don't want jsut one or 2 gold fish I was to the understanding until I read you blog 20 gal for the first fish and 10 for each one added so I was thinking of doing 4 or 5 fancy but now I'm starting to lean toward something else. I had gouramis and corydoras the last time I had a my 55 gallon set up and was running a 10 gallon with 7 Black Neons in it. I had nothing but problems with my 55. I finish a cycle and it took around 3 and a half weeks added 4 Grouramis and about 3 weeks later added 3 cory's. The ammonia and nitrite were always in line. The PH was high as always. The 10 gal Neon tank was great all 7 fish lived about 2 years and we went on vacation and the freaking house sitter turned off the plug strip and by the time we came home needless to say no more neons. Can you suggest a site that might help me with all the temps as well as PH and hardness that fish can typical live in. Even the Electric Yellows say a max of 8 and min is 8.4 plus with just tap water. I can get RO water for .20 a gallon so filling the 5 jugs is not a real hassle. $7.00 with %10 of that going back to store credit. So 7 bucks a month to get water is not too bad. Jsut looking for ideas and glad someone is out there that will listen and give advice. So many web sites out there and 90% of the stuff you read is hard to take much stock in. Like the Aquarium Boxes for a 10 gallon tank with 4 gold fish on the box or even worst the freaking gold fish bowl all the store sell. --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@...> wrote: > > Did you seed the new tank's filter? You never answered that question. > > If you didn't, then this would be a very fast cycle... much faster than > possible without seeding, so I'm going to presume you did seed the filter > with some cycled filter media. If you did seed the filter, then you are > nearing completion of the fishless cycling process. Continue to feed it > 5ppm of ammonia each day until you are ready to add your full bioload of > fish. Then do a 90% water change and you are ready to add your fish. DO > NOT do any kind of filter cleaning/maintenance until you are ready to do > your first weekly PWC, then follow the directions on my blog for filter > cleaning and maintenance so you do not over-harm your nitrifying bacteria > colonies that you spent so much time building. > > Since you mentioned both Goldfish and Cichlids, you could go with either > Goldfish or African Rift Lake Cichlids and either would do find in your > baseline water without the need to do the RO mixture. It's certainly up to > you, but with the wide variety of fish available that do well with your tap > water baseline, it sure would be simpler to not have to worry about doing RO > water all the time. > > One other thing, you need to do a 48 hour tap water baseline, not right out > the tap. Quite often, things will change, sometimes dramatically after the > tap water is out of the pipes for 48 hours. You could end up with a much > lower pH.... or higher... same for GH and KH. You do not mention a KH > reading. Did you buy the test strips or a master test kit that uses test > tubes and reagent drops/powders? > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right > side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 42763	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 8/17/2009
Subject: Re: Water Test Kits.

Now I have a question. Why start the tank fresh? Did something kill all of your other fish? Or did you have to wait awhile before getting the new tank? Amber Robb wrote: > > > First off No this was a start from scratch cycle. My old tank cracked > during the set up process so the tank is new, I bought a 305 Canister > filter new. I also sued my Emperor 400 filter and it has new media. > The gravel was washed very good to make sure all the old stuff was out > off that. > > I started the cycle off with ammonia and it hit about 5 or 6 ppm and I > added about 4 tea spoons full a day and on day 4 I say Nitrite. I > still added the ammonia and on day 7 my Nitrite was at 5 ppm and now > it's at .5 to 1 and I have still be added ammonia > > With the water as hard as it is and the PH as high as it is I was > assuming by all I have read that both would be to high for gold fish. > > I have 5 7 gallon jugs that I treat the tap water and they sit out > between watter changes so yes my tap water is aged. I d not have a KH > test just a water hardness test kit. I did order a GH and KH test tit > today from Big Al's. All my test kits are the master test kits. The > strips just didn't work well for me. The master kits are the drops. > > After reading you Gold Fish sections on your blog I'm starting to > really second guess myself on weather I even want to try goldfish. I > have a 55 gal tank and no room for anything larger so I really don't > want jsut one or 2 gold fish I was to the understanding until I read > you blog 20 gal for the first fish and 10 for each one added so I was > thinking of doing 4 or 5 fancy but now I'm starting to lean toward > something else. > > I had gouramis and corydoras the last time I had a my 55 gallon set up > and was running a 10 gallon with 7 Black Neons in it. > > I had nothing but problems with my 55. I finish a cycle and it took > around 3 and a half weeks added 4 Grouramis and about 3 weeks later > added 3 cory's. The ammonia and nitrite were always in line. The PH > was high as always. > > The 10 gal Neon tank was great all 7 fish lived about 2 years and we > went on vacation and the freaking house sitter turned off the plug > strip and by the time we came home needless to say no more neons. > > Can you suggest a site that might help me with all the temps as well > as PH and hardness that fish can typical live in. Even the Electric > Yellows say a max of 8 and min is 8.4 plus with just tap water. > > I can get RO water for .20 a gallon so filling the 5 jugs is not a > real hassle. $7.00 with %10 of that going back to store credit. So 7 > bucks a month to get water is not too bad. > > Jsut looking for ideas and glad someone is out there that will listen > and give advice. So many web sites out there and 90% of the stuff you > read is hard to take much stock in. Like the Aquarium Boxes for a 10 > gallon tank with 4 gold fish on the box or even worst the freaking > gold fish bowl all the store sell. > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>, "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" > <GoldLenny@...> wrote: > > > > Did you seed the new tank's filter? You never answered that question. > > > > If you didn't, then this would be a very fast cycle... much faster than > > possible without seeding, so I'm going to presume you did seed the > filter > > with some cycled filter media. If you did seed the filter, then you are > > nearing completion of the fishless cycling process. Continue to feed it > > 5ppm of ammonia each day until you are ready to add your full bioload of > > fish. Then do a 90% water change and you are ready to add your fish. DO > > NOT do any kind of filter cleaning/maintenance until you are ready to do > > your first weekly PWC, then follow the directions on my blog for filter > > cleaning and maintenance so you do not over-harm your nitrifying > bacteria > > colonies that you spent so much time building. > > > > Since you mentioned both Goldfish and Cichlids, you could go with either > > Goldfish or African Rift Lake Cichlids and either would do find in your > > baseline water without the need to do the RO mixture. It's certainly > up to > > you, but with the wide variety of fish available that do well with > your tap > > water baseline, it sure would be simpler to not have to worry about > doing RO > > water all the time. > > > > One other thing, you need to do a 48 hour tap water baseline, not > right out > > the tap. Quite often, things will change, sometimes dramatically > after the > > tap water is out of the pipes for 48 hours. You could end up with a much > > lower pH.... or higher... same for GH and KH. You do not mention a KH > > reading. Did you buy the test strips or a master test kit that uses test > > tubes and reagent drops/powders? > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right > > side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, > Month) > > > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 42764	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 8/17/2009
Subject: Re: My fish are dieing!

What do you have in your filter cartridges? What filter do you use. Some filters come with stuff in the media that absorbs things like Ammonia, if you are using one of these your tank will never cycle properly. Amber Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > > > Most fish (and most animals) will try to hide when they are feeling sick. > This is a natural reaction, since in the wild, a sick or injured fish is > more likely to become a meal for a predator. Basic Darwinism... > survival of > the fittest. > > For some reason, unless your have a LOT of plants, your tank does not seem > to be cycling properly. You should ALWAYS have 0.0ppm for ammonia and > nitrite and then your nitrate reading should constantly rise in between > PWC's. In a heavily planted tank or very lightly stocked tank, the > nitrates > will stay very low but NOT usually at 0.0ppm. To me, this 0.0ppm reading > for nitrates and an ammonia reading means your tank is not cycled. Since > your pH is only 7.0, this low level of ammonia isn't really dangerous at a > low pH. Even low levels of ammonia becomes much more toxic as the pH rises > into the high 7's or 8's. > > PLEASE NOTE THAT YOU LISTED YOUR AMMONIA AT 0.05PPM BUT I THINK YOU MADE A > TYPO SINCE MOST TEST KITS WILL TEST AT 0.0, THEN 0.25, THEN 0.5, > ETC... NOT > AS LOW AS 0.05PPM. > > Please check the expiration dates on your test kit to make sure you are > getting accurate readings and/or get a second opinion for your water > tests. > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right > side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On > Behalf Of Lisa > Sent: Monday, August 17, 2009 9:17 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: My fish are dieing! > > They others seem to be acting like normal The only new plant in there is a > Wisteria that floats. No new fish had been added. > Both the Molli and the male swordtail were on top of this plant at the > waters surfce when i found them. > Could this be behaviour like an elephant? They know they're going to > die, so > they hide? > > These ar ethe resaults BEFORE i did a pwc Temp - 25* 77 F PH - 7 Amonia - > 0.05 KH - 35.8 Niterite - 0 ppm Niterate - 0 ppm > > The amonia for 5 - 6 days is normally 0.00ppm, it's really only the last > couple of days before the pwc that i sometimes get this reading. And the > tank is due for it's clean today. > And everytime i do a pwc, the amonia always drops back to 0.00ppm > > Lisa > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 42765	From: Troy	Date: 8/17/2009
Subject: Re: Will a dwarf gourami eat itself to death?

You have summed it up perfectly. This was rather sudden. I only saw the Gourami in the area where the Rams had been “nesting” with most of the little ones gone. I didn’t notice anything about him today, but I am usually at work all day protecting the free world from evil. I didn’t see any physical damage on the Gourami. He did, however, look very full (but not pathologically bloated). Thanks for the help Lenny. I will keep an eye on the rest of the fish for anything looking off. Troy From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Lenny V. aka GoldLenny Sent: Monday, August 17, 2009 7:28 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Will a dwarf gourami eat itself to death? In nature, they are omnivores, mostly leaning towards the carnivore end of the food spectrum but if they were not use to high protein foods, I guess there is always a chance of them getting constipated but that will not usually kill a fish so quickly and you would normally see the fish acting sick and see the bloating and be able to treat the constipation. I'm presuming you saw none of this? Meaning that one day it was healthy and fine, the next day dead??? Did you see any evidence of the Dwarf Gourami being in a fish fight... where the parent Rams might have gone after it for attacking their spawn? Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> ] On Behalf Of Troy Sent: Monday, August 17, 2009 9:18 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> Subject: [AquaticLife] Will a dwarf gourami eat itself to death? I had a Dwarf Gourami in a 50 gal with two breeding pairs of Bolivian Rams. The Rams have recently spawned and they had a nice brood of babies swimming around. Then the Dwarf Gourami finally noticed over a short span apparently ate all of the little Rams. Today, my daughter found the Gourami face down in the substrate, he having died. Will a fish, a Dwarf Gourmai in particular, eat itself to death? Thanks. Troy [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 42766	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 8/17/2009
Subject: Re: My fish are dieing!

Ahhhh... good catch Amber. Them dang filter companies are always pushing Zeolite on people as a filter media that they can sell to people over and over as a way to line the filter companies pockets. It's OK to keep on hand for emergencies but NOT good to run in the filters all the time. While Zeolite sounds like a good thing for removing ammonia, the down side, as you state is that the aquarium will never properly cycle since you need the ammonia to get the nitrogen cycle going. Further, once the Zeolite fills up with ammonia, unless the fish keeper is testing their tank often, they will get an increasing level of ammonia. Another downside is that if someone uses salt in their freshwater tank (not advised), salt will cause Zeolite to start releasing the ammonia which means a double whammy of ammonia. If the water has a higher pH level, this can be toxic or even fatal. I hope the OP in the other thread.. is it Troy???... who is fishless cycling his new tank is also reading this. I wonder if that is why his ammonia is going down so quickly and the tank appears to be nearly fishless cycled after only nine days which is WAY LOW from the norm of 4-6 weeks, since he stated he did not seed his filters with any cycled filter media. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Amber Berglund Sent: Monday, August 17, 2009 9:54 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: My fish are dieing! What do you have in your filter cartridges? What filter do you use. Some filters come with stuff in the media that absorbs things like Ammonia, if you are using one of these your tank will never cycle properly. Amber Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > > > Most fish (and most animals) will try to hide when they are feeling sick. > This is a natural reaction, since in the wild, a sick or injured fish > is more likely to become a meal for a predator. Basic Darwinism... > survival of > the fittest. > > For some reason, unless your have a LOT of plants, your tank does not > seem to be cycling properly. You should ALWAYS have 0.0ppm for ammonia > and nitrite and then your nitrate reading should constantly rise in > between PWC's. In a heavily planted tank or very lightly stocked tank, > the nitrates will stay very low but NOT usually at 0.0ppm. To me, this > 0.0ppm reading for nitrates and an ammonia reading means your tank is > not cycled. Since your pH is only 7.0, this low level of ammonia isn't > really dangerous at a low pH. Even low levels of ammonia becomes much > more toxic as the pH rises into the high 7's or 8's. > > PLEASE NOTE THAT YOU LISTED YOUR AMMONIA AT 0.05PPM BUT I THINK YOU > MADE A TYPO SINCE MOST TEST KITS WILL TEST AT 0.0, THEN 0.25, THEN > 0.5, ETC... NOT AS LOW AS 0.05PPM. > > Please check the expiration dates on your test kit to make sure you > are getting accurate readings and/or get a second opinion for your > water tests. > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> (Links to any articles referenced in > above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels > and also under Archives by Year, Month) > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On Behalf Of Lisa > Sent: Monday, August 17, 2009 9:17 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: My fish are dieing! > > They others seem to be acting like normal The only new plant in there > is a Wisteria that floats. No new fish had been added. > Both the Molli and the male swordtail were on top of this plant at the > waters surfce when i found them. > Could this be behaviour like an elephant? They know they're going to > die, so they hide? > > These ar ethe resaults BEFORE i did a pwc Temp - 25* 77 F PH - 7 > Amonia - > 0.05 KH - 35.8 Niterite - 0 ppm Niterate - 0 ppm > > The amonia for 5 - 6 days is normally 0.00ppm, it's really only the > last couple of days before the pwc that i sometimes get this reading. > And the tank is due for it's clean today. > And everytime i do a pwc, the amonia always drops back to 0.00ppm > > Lisa

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 42767	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 8/17/2009
Subject: Re: Water Test Kits.

Oops.. I just mentioned Troy in another thread and it should have been you, Robb. Robb, Just to be sure, do either of your filter systems have Zeolite in them as a filter media? Read my reply in the "My fish are dying" thread. Zeolite looks like small white pieces of rock.. and it actually is a natural rock formation. Many filter companies will "push" this on people by including it with the new filter system but Zeolite is NOT GOOD to run in filters full time. I'm guessing you read up on Fishless Cycling and most articles mention to remove the carbon and any other filter media except for the floss pads, sponges and/or biological filter media, which is where you do want to grow your nitrifying bacteria colonies.. since those three medias should never be thrown away and can be properly cleaned so that the nitrifying bacteria are kept mostly alive so that folks do not cause their tanks to have cycling issues. Without seeding a tank, it is VERY RARE... actually unheard of by me, for a tank to almost fully cycle in only nine days. It usually takes 4-6 weeks... or more. I've helped hundreds of people fishless cycle their tanks and I have NEVER seen one cycle that quickly from scratch. Now, if one was to seed their new filter with some cycled filter media or gravel, that will dramatically speed up the process, so I'm just not sure what happened in your case. I'm curious so I'm going to ask a few crazy questions. Do you have a closed up house or do you keep your windows open all the time so that your home is exposed to the outside air all of the time? The reason I ask is that nitrifying bacteria is basically everywhere but I suspect that in a closed up home with central A/C, micron-filtration and very dry air, there may not be as many nitrifying bacteria floating around. If a home is open to the outside where the air in the home has a higher level of humidity and the nitrifying bacteria from outside can constantly find their way into a tank, then I guess that could explain things. I've never really asked these questions of people in the past but from a purely scientific theory standpoint, it seems that a closed up house with A/C that removes a lot of the humidity would make it harder for nitrifying bacteria to find their way into a newly set up tank. With that said, I guess keeping the tank open, instead of covered, could also speed up the fishless cycling process. Things that make you go HMMMMMM. From the numbers you are listing, it sure seems like your tank is cycling and as soon as you see both the ammonia and nitrite going to 0.0ppm within 12 hours of dosing the ammonia to 5ppm, then you know it is fully cycled. Now, back to your stocking and other questions. I'm glad you found my goldfish care sheet and realize that the bad info out there of 10G per goldfish is vastly inadequate. Even with only two fancy goldfish in a 55G, you could find yourself needing a bigger tank in a year or two if the goldfish come from good genetics and/or are fed properly from birth so they are not already stunted when you buy them. As far as a site that gives a LOT of GREAT information about each fish, Mongabay.com is the place to start. http://www.mongabay.com/search.htm and then use the Advanced Search section with a bullet in Mongabay Fish, to look up GOOD profiles on each fish species you are interested in. Their profiles include all of the water chemistry, temperature, feeding, breeding, suggested companions and other general information about almost every commonly kept fish and many of the uncommon fish. Another way to find a Mongabay profile on a particular fish is to just do a Google search with the common name of the fish followed by Mongabay and the fish's profile will be one of the top hits. That's what I do 99% of the time. Here is the profile for Gourami's, since you mentioned them. http://fish.mongabay.com/species/Trichogaster_trichopterus.html There are other reputable sites for profiles are listed on my blog article on that topic but http://www.BadmansTropicalFish.com is certainly at the top of the list along with Mongabay. Once again, I just type in the common name and Badmans in a Google search to find the profile. Here is Bradmans profile on Gourami's. http://badmanstropicalfish.com/profiles/profile84.html They are both full of good information BUT the good thing about Mongabay, that I haven't found on other sites, is that they have the Suggested Companion section which lists other fish species/families that are known to usually work well with the profiled fish. Another site that uses a database to search for specific types of fish species that work with various parameters is http://tinyurl.com/FishGeeks-Database-Search or full URL - http://www.aquaria.info/modules.php?op=modload&name=database&file=index_spec ies. Under the Advanced Search section, you can enter your pH, temperature and hardness and click search and it will find all the fish in it's database that like those parameters. You can use the other search fields to limit the search like fish size, species, etc. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Robb Sent: Monday, August 17, 2009 9:28 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Water Test Kits. First off No this was a start from scratch cycle. My old tank cracked during the set up process so the tank is new, I bought a 305 Canister filter new. I also sued my Emperor 400 filter and it has new media. The gravel was washed very good to make sure all the old stuff was out off that. I started the cycle off with ammonia and it hit about 5 or 6 ppm and I added about 4 tea spoons full a day and on day 4 I say Nitrite. I still added the ammonia and on day 7 my Nitrite was at 5 ppm and now it's at .5 to 1 and I have still be added ammonia With the water as hard as it is and the PH as high as it is I was assuming by all I have read that both would be to high for gold fish. I have 5 7 gallon jugs that I treat the tap water and they sit out between watter changes so yes my tap water is aged. I d not have a KH test just a water hardness test kit. I did order a GH and KH test tit today from Big Al's. All my test kits are the master test kits. The strips just didn't work well for me. The master kits are the drops. After reading you Gold Fish sections on your blog I'm starting to really second guess myself on weather I even want to try goldfish. I have a 55 gal tank and no room for anything larger so I really don't want jsut one or 2 gold fish I was to the understanding until I read you blog 20 gal for the first fish and 10 for each one added so I was thinking of doing 4 or 5 fancy but now I'm starting to lean toward something else. I had gouramis and corydoras the last time I had a my 55 gallon set up and was running a 10 gallon with 7 Black Neons in it. I had nothing but problems with my 55. I finish a cycle and it took around 3 and a half weeks added 4 Grouramis and about 3 weeks later added 3 cory's. The ammonia and nitrite were always in line. The PH was high as always. The 10 gal Neon tank was great all 7 fish lived about 2 years and we went on vacation and the freaking house sitter turned off the plug strip and by the time we came home needless to say no more neons. Can you suggest a site that might help me with all the temps as well as PH and hardness that fish can typical live in. Even the Electric Yellows say a max of 8 and min is 8.4 plus with just tap water. I can get RO water for .20 a gallon so filling the 5 jugs is not a real hassle. $7.00 with %10 of that going back to store credit. So 7 bucks a month to get water is not too bad. Jsut looking for ideas and glad someone is out there that will listen and give advice. So many web sites out there and 90% of the stuff you read is hard to take much stock in. Like the Aquarium Boxes for a 10 gallon tank with 4 gold fish on the box or even worst the freaking gold fish bowl all the store sell. --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@...> wrote: > > Did you seed the new tank's filter? You never answered that question. > > If you didn't, then this would be a very fast cycle... much faster > than possible without seeding, so I'm going to presume you did seed > the filter with some cycled filter media. If you did seed the filter, > then you are nearing completion of the fishless cycling process. > Continue to feed it 5ppm of ammonia each day until you are ready to > add your full bioload of fish. Then do a 90% water change and you are > ready to add your fish. DO NOT do any kind of filter > cleaning/maintenance until you are ready to do your first weekly PWC, > then follow the directions on my blog for filter cleaning and > maintenance so you do not over-harm your nitrifying bacteria colonies that you spent so much time building. > > Since you mentioned both Goldfish and Cichlids, you could go with > either Goldfish or African Rift Lake Cichlids and either would do find > in your baseline water without the need to do the RO mixture. It's > certainly up to you, but with the wide variety of fish available that > do well with your tap water baseline, it sure would be simpler to not > have to worry about doing RO water all the time. > > One other thing, you need to do a 48 hour tap water baseline, not > right out the tap. Quite often, things will change, sometimes > dramatically after the tap water is out of the pipes for 48 hours. > You could end up with a much lower pH.... or higher... same for GH and > KH. You do not mention a KH reading. Did you buy the test strips or > a master test kit that uses test tubes and reagent drops/powders? > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles > referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically > under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month)

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 42768	From: Robb	Date: 8/17/2009
Subject: Re: Water Test Kits.

It was a long while. It was over 3 years since the 55 was set up and about 2 years sine the 10 was set up. When I lost everything in the 55. I drained the water and left everything setting there and just had the time to get back to it was working 16 hours days 6 days a week. Work has changed new job and all jsut decided I had the time money invested and really did enjoy it and want to get back into it again. Robb --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, Amber Berglund <arberglund@...> wrote: > > Now I have a question. > Why start the tank fresh? Did something kill all of your other fish? Or > did you have to wait awhile before getting the new tank? > > Amber

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 42769	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 8/17/2009
Subject: Re: Water Test Kits.

Gotcha, just wondering at all the cleaning and such, if it was an established tank that would have been a bad thing to do ;) LOL. But I understand now. Glad to hear you're getting back into the hobby, I love to watch my fish myself. Amber Robb wrote: > > > It was a long while. It was over 3 years since the 55 was set up and > about 2 years sine the 10 was set up. When I lost everything in the > 55. I drained the water and left everything setting there and just had > the time to get back to it was working 16 hours days 6 days a week. > Work has changed new job and all jsut decided I had the time money > invested and really did enjoy it and want to get back into it again. > > Robb > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>, Amber Berglund > <arberglund@...> wrote: > > > > Now I have a question. > > Why start the tank fresh? Did something kill all of your other fish? Or > > did you have to wait awhile before getting the new tank? > > > > Amber > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 42770	From: Lisa	Date: 8/17/2009
Subject: Re: My fish are dieing!

I have an u/g filter. and all, bar one, of the plants in my tank are real Wisteria, dwarf anubias and an amazon sword My amonia test kit isn't liquid based. It sits in the tank attaed to the glass with a suction cap. and the readings on that are 0.02 - Safe (yellow colour), 0.05 - Alert (green colour, 0.2 - Alarm (light blue colour), 0.5 - Toxic (dark blue colour) Lisa

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 42771	From: Courtland Jacob	Date: 8/17/2009
Subject: Re: tetra safe start

ok here is my reasoning, i used ecocomplete sand for cichlids, supposedly it has bacteria in it, i took the penguin off my 55 gallon tank and used it for this new tank, put a mesh bag with gravel from a tank into the filter, and i took a large rock out of my 55 gallon tank that i had in there for almost a year. yet after 3 days my ammonia is still up and no nitrites or nitrates, i'm sorry i'm just a little impatient because last time i cycled a tank this way it took only a few days to complete and this time around it hasn't even started. that and i really want to jump on these fish since they are hard to find in my area --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@...> wrote: > > Yes and no... mostly yes. I just don't like promoting Tetra due to some of > the other CRAP that they sell (like Easy Balance) and the horrible advice > they give out to people who sign up on their website.. like changing out > filters every month and only doing PWC's once a month or not doing PWC's at > all for six months when using their crappie product, Easy Balance. Simply > bad stuff!!!! > > Tetra bought out Marineland a while back and got the use of the patent on > Bio-Spira, originally invented by Dr. Tim Hovanec when he was chief science > officer with Marineland. He now has his own company, > http://www.DrTimsAquatics.com and if you can buy his improved version of > Bio-Spira, now called One And Only, that would be better. If you can only > get the Tetra Safe Start, then that is still OK. > > BUT.. the bigger question is why? If I'm not mistaken, you already have one > or more tanks running and it would be easier/better for you to just use some > of your existing filter media to start up the cycling of a new tank and then > you could feed it plain ammonia and within a few days to a week, it would be > fully cycled for up to 5ppm of ammonia per day and that is all you would > need to add a full bioload of fish to the new tank. > > Of course, if you want it faster and want to add all your fish tomorrow, > then you would need to use One And Only or Safe Start... but if you use > either of them, you have to add the fish by the next day... otherwise the > bacteria would start to die off unless you fed them with plain ammonia every > day... and if you're going to do that, then you might as well just do that > with some cycled filter media added to your new filter and quick cycle it > yourself. > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right > side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) > > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On > Behalf Of Courtland Jacob > Sent: Monday, August 17, 2009 1:44 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Subject: [AquaticLife] tetra safe start > > does it work, yes or no? >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 42772	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 8/17/2009
Subject: Re: tetra safe start

Several years ago, I had heard some good things about Eco-complete and it having live nitrifying bacteria but haven't really heard much about it in the various forums lately. I imagine it is much like the Bio-Spira, now either One And Only or Safe Start and the bacteria are fragile and if the bottle gets too hot or freezes during shipping, that can kill all of the bacteria. I guess if the Eco-Complete is left on the shelf for too long, the same thing will happen. Nitrifying bacteria need LOTS of O2 and obviously the chemicals, ammonia and nitrite, which was always the problem with the older bottle bacteria products. Bio-Spira was a MAJOR advancement in bottle bacteria but even it had to be kept refrigerated to keep the bacteria alive even for six months. The latest technolgy that Dr. Hovanec developed allows the bacteria to live in a hibernative state at room temperature for up to six months, longer if refrigerated and Safe Start supposedly has the same technology since they bought out Marineland and the patent belonged to both Dr. Hovanec and Marineland. Apparently, this time, the bag of Eco-Complete that you got must have been on the shelf too long or exposed to excessive heat or freezing temps during shipping and all of the good bacteria might have died off. It's still a good substrate except you lose a lot of the value if it's not going to cycle the tank properly. Like I said earlier, if you can get Dr. Tim's One And Only, get it (he does have a fish store search function on his website). If you can't get Dr. Tim's, then Safe Start is a suitable replacement... just make sure to check the expiration or manufactured date. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Courtland Jacob Sent: Monday, August 17, 2009 11:27 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: tetra safe start ok here is my reasoning, i used ecocomplete sand for cichlids, supposedly it has bacteria in it, i took the penguin off my 55 gallon tank and used it for this new tank, put a mesh bag with gravel from a tank into the filter, and i took a large rock out of my 55 gallon tank that i had in there for almost a year. yet after 3 days my ammonia is still up and no nitrites or nitrates, i'm sorry i'm just a little impatient because last time i cycled a tank this way it took only a few days to complete and this time around it hasn't even started. that and i really want to jump on these fish since they are hard to find in my area --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@...> wrote: > > Yes and no... mostly yes. I just don't like promoting Tetra due to > some of the other CRAP that they sell (like Easy Balance) and the > horrible advice they give out to people who sign up on their website.. > like changing out filters every month and only doing PWC's once a > month or not doing PWC's at all for six months when using their > crappie product, Easy Balance. Simply bad stuff!!!! > > Tetra bought out Marineland a while back and got the use of the patent > on Bio-Spira, originally invented by Dr. Tim Hovanec when he was chief > science officer with Marineland. He now has his own company, > http://www.DrTimsAquatics.com and if you can buy his improved version > of Bio-Spira, now called One And Only, that would be better. If you > can only get the Tetra Safe Start, then that is still OK. > > BUT.. the bigger question is why? If I'm not mistaken, you already > have one or more tanks running and it would be easier/better for you > to just use some of your existing filter media to start up the cycling > of a new tank and then you could feed it plain ammonia and within a > few days to a week, it would be fully cycled for up to 5ppm of ammonia > per day and that is all you would need to add a full bioload of fish to the new tank. > > Of course, if you want it faster and want to add all your fish > tomorrow, then you would need to use One And Only or Safe Start... but > if you use either of them, you have to add the fish by the next day... > otherwise the bacteria would start to die off unless you fed them with > plain ammonia every day... and if you're going to do that, then you > might as well just do that with some cycled filter media added to your > new filter and quick cycle it yourself. > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles > referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically > under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) > > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] > On Behalf Of Courtland Jacob > Sent: Monday, August 17, 2009 1:44 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Subject: [AquaticLife] tetra safe start > > does it work, yes or no?

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 42773	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 8/17/2009
Subject: Re: My fish are dieing!

AHHHHH.. another one of those critical-need-to-know situations. Do you have the SeaChem Ammonia Alert? It sounds like it since I also have one that I got for free... otherwise I probably wouldn't have it. If it is the SeaChem, it measures only free ammonia, not total ammonia so the numbers are much smaller compared to a regular ammonia test kit. Here is SeaChems explanation from their website's FAQ's. http://www.seachem.com/support/FAQs/AmmoniaAlert.html Q: I have another test kit that showed positive for ammonia but the Ammonia AlertT never changed color. Is it still good? A: Most likely the other test kit was testing for total ammonia. Total ammonia includes both free (NH3) and ionic (NH4+) ammonia. The Ammonia AlertT only measures free ammonia because that is the harmful form. Ionic ammonia cannot harm your fish. However, as pH rises, a greater and greater percentage of the total ammonia will be converted from ionic ammonia to free ammonia, so knowledge of total ammonia is also important. If your SeaChem Ammonia alert is showing Yellow, then you are OK and in the future, let us know this when giving your test results. I'll try to remember but I contribute to too many different threads in several forums to really try and remember people's tank particulars. Like the SeaChem answer says, with a higher pH, you should also know your total ammonia reading, not just the free ammonia. If your pH is on the high side, 7.5 or higher, you should also get a REAL ammonia test kit just to make sure you are OK. I'm still concerned about the 0.0ppm nitrate level (you see... I did remember that from your previous post even though it's not included below... but I do not remember your pH. LOL) Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Lisa Sent: Monday, August 17, 2009 10:43 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: My fish are dieing! I have an u/g filter. and all, bar one, of the plants in my tank are real Wisteria, dwarf anubias and an amazon sword My amonia test kit isn't liquid based. It sits in the tank attaed to the glass with a suction cap. and the readings on that are 0.02 - Safe (yellow colour), 0.05 - Alert (green colour, 0.2 - Alarm (light blue colour), 0.5 - Toxic (dark blue colour) Lisa

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 42774	From: Courtland Jacob	Date: 8/18/2009
Subject: Re: My fish are dieing!

being that she has plants I am willing to bet she adds CO2 when she doesn't need to and that is what is hurting the fish --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Lisa" <lisa_lawless2004@...> wrote: > > > I have an u/g filter. > and all, bar one, of the plants in my tank are real > > Wisteria, dwarf anubias and an amazon sword > > My amonia test kit isn't liquid based. It sits in the tank attaed to the glass with a suction cap. > and the readings on that are > > 0.02 - Safe (yellow colour), > 0.05 - Alert (green colour, > 0.2 - Alarm (light blue colour), > 0.5 - Toxic (dark blue colour) > > Lisa >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 42775	From: Courtland Jacob	Date: 8/18/2009
Subject: Re: My fish are dieing!

where do you live that you have a pH of 7 ummmm ok this might sound crazy, but it's somehting i looked up because i was concerned about the KH and pH apparently in order for the pH to remain at 7 with a hardness as high as 35.8 the CO2 levels would have to be well above what is considered toxic for fish, 40mg/liter of CO2 is considered toxic and if I am thinking correctly your at about 90 mg/liter do you have enough water movement to oxygenate your water? are you adding CO2 to your water since you have plants? the other issue you could be having is that your pH is 7 because your nitrates are bonding with the H+ ions to create nitric acid instead of lowering the pH, so if your tank is truely cycled this could explain the lack of nitrates so i guess the question is, do you have more ammonia than you think, is there too much CO2 in the water, or are you adding something to the tank to mess with the pH --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Lisa" <lisa_lawless2004@...> wrote: > > They others seem to be acting like normal > The only new plant in there is a Wisteria that floats. No new fish had been added. > Both the Molli and the male swordtail were on top of this plant at the waters surfce when i found them. > Could this be behaviour like an elephant? They know they're going to die, so they hide? > > > These ar ethe resaults BEFORE i did a pwc > Temp – 25* 77 F > PH – 7 > Amonia – 0.05 > KH – 35.8 > Niterite – 0 ppm > Niterate - 0 ppm > > The amonia for 5 - 6 days is normally 0.00ppm, it's really only the last couple of days before the pwc that i sometimes get this reading. And the tank is due for it's clean today. > And everytime i do a pwc, the amonia always drops back to 0.00ppm > > Lisa >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 42776	From: Courtland Jacob	Date: 8/18/2009
Subject: Re: tetra safe start

yeah the eco complete looks great and will be great at buffering my water, it keeps the pH perfect at the least, and i just want to make sure something like safe start will work, because it's about $13 for a bottle for my tank size. I think i'm going to give it a few more days to see if i start to see any changes, maybe change up the gravel i put in the mesh bag. and with the eco complete, i mostly got it for it's minerals and pH and color than the bacteria, I was just hoping to get an added benefit if it really worked, maybe it was my own fault for not adding the ammonia early enough, then again since my water has ammonia in it you would think it would be enough to help start it, watch i'll wake up tomorrow and there will be a bacteria bloom! (knocks on wood) --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@...> wrote: > > Several years ago, I had heard some good things about Eco-complete and it > having live nitrifying bacteria but haven't really heard much about it in > the various forums lately. > > I imagine it is much like the Bio-Spira, now either One And Only or Safe > Start and the bacteria are fragile and if the bottle gets too hot or freezes > during shipping, that can kill all of the bacteria. I guess if the > Eco-Complete is left on the shelf for too long, the same thing will happen. > Nitrifying bacteria need LOTS of O2 and obviously the chemicals, ammonia and > nitrite, which was always the problem with the older bottle bacteria > products. Bio-Spira was a MAJOR advancement in bottle bacteria but even it > had to be kept refrigerated to keep the bacteria alive even for six months. > The latest technolgy that Dr. Hovanec developed allows the bacteria to live > in a hibernative state at room temperature for up to six months, longer if > refrigerated and Safe Start supposedly has the same technology since they > bought out Marineland and the patent belonged to both Dr. Hovanec and > Marineland. > > Apparently, this time, the bag of Eco-Complete that you got must have been > on the shelf too long or exposed to excessive heat or freezing temps during > shipping and all of the good bacteria might have died off. It's still a > good substrate except you lose a lot of the value if it's not going to cycle > the tank properly. > > Like I said earlier, if you can get Dr. Tim's One And Only, get it (he does > have a fish store search function on his website). If you can't get Dr. > Tim's, then Safe Start is a suitable replacement... just make sure to check > the expiration or manufactured date. > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right > side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) > > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On > Behalf Of Courtland Jacob > Sent: Monday, August 17, 2009 11:27 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: tetra safe start > > ok here is my reasoning, i used ecocomplete sand for cichlids, supposedly it > has bacteria in it, i took the penguin off my 55 gallon tank and used it for > this new tank, put a mesh bag with gravel from a tank into the filter, and i > took a large rock out of my 55 gallon tank that i had in there for almost a > year. yet after 3 days my ammonia is still up and no nitrites or nitrates, > i'm sorry i'm just a little impatient because last time i cycled a tank this > way it took only a few days to complete and this time around it hasn't even > started. that and i really want to jump on these fish since they are hard to > find in my area > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@> > wrote: > > > > Yes and no... mostly yes. I just don't like promoting Tetra due to > > some of the other CRAP that they sell (like Easy Balance) and the > > horrible advice they give out to people who sign up on their website.. > > like changing out filters every month and only doing PWC's once a > > month or not doing PWC's at all for six months when using their > > crappie product, Easy Balance. Simply bad stuff!!!! > > > > Tetra bought out Marineland a while back and got the use of the patent > > on Bio-Spira, originally invented by Dr. Tim Hovanec when he was chief > > science officer with Marineland. He now has his own company, > > http://www.DrTimsAquatics.com and if you can buy his improved version > > of Bio-Spira, now called One And Only, that would be better. If you > > can only get the Tetra Safe Start, then that is still OK. > > > > BUT.. the bigger question is why? If I'm not mistaken, you already > > have one or more tanks running and it would be easier/better for you > > to just use some of your existing filter media to start up the cycling > > of a new tank and then you could feed it plain ammonia and within a > > few days to a week, it would be fully cycled for up to 5ppm of ammonia > > per day and that is all you would need to add a full bioload of fish to > the new tank. > > > > Of course, if you want it faster and want to add all your fish > > tomorrow, then you would need to use One And Only or Safe Start... but > > if you use either of them, you have to add the fish by the next day... > > otherwise the bacteria would start to die off unless you fed them with > > plain ammonia every day... and if you're going to do that, then you > > might as well just do that with some cycled filter media added to your > > new filter and quick cycle it yourself. > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles > > referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically > > under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] > > On Behalf Of Courtland Jacob > > Sent: Monday, August 17, 2009 1:44 PM > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > Subject: [AquaticLife] tetra safe start > > > > does it work, yes or no? >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 42777	From: bill 1433	Date: 8/18/2009
Subject: Re: Will a dwarf gourami eat itself to death?

Not sure here Troy but you can not discount the possibility of the Rams ganging-up on him for eating their young.  Was the fish damaged in any way?  Chiclids will defend their young and though Rams are considered peaceful the possibility does exist.   Bill --- On Mon, 8/17/09, Troy <ntevidence@...> wrote: From: Troy <ntevidence@...> Subject: [AquaticLife] Will a dwarf gourami eat itself to death? To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Date: Monday, August 17, 2009, 10:18 PM I had a Dwarf Gourami in a 50 gal with two breeding pairs of Bolivian Rams. The Rams have recently spawned and they had a nice brood of babies swimming around.  Then the Dwarf Gourami finally noticed over a short span apparently ate all of the little Rams.  Today, my daughter found the Gourami face down in the substrate, he having died. Will a fish, a Dwarf Gourmai in particular, eat itself to death? Thanks. Troy [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] ------------------------------------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the home page.  Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com to receive the digest, which includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com for the No E-Mail option where you will still be able to read messages on the group and post replies. Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com to receive individual e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 42778	From: Dora Smith	Date: 8/18/2009
Subject: Re: My fish are dieing!

Lisa, that kind of ammonia kit doesn't work well at all. The best thing is to get an API master test kit, available for $25 - $30 at most pet and fish stores; tetra is better than nothing. I was waiting for someone to tell you, and maybe Lenny did and I just didn't see it. The usual cause of disease in fish is a water quality issue. Yours, Dora Smith Austin, TX tiggernut24@... ----- Original Message ----- From: "Lisa" <lisa_lawless2004@...> To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Monday, August 17, 2009 10:42 PM Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: My fish are dieing! I have an u/g filter. and all, bar one, of the plants in my tank are real Wisteria, dwarf anubias and an amazon sword My amonia test kit isn't liquid based. It sits in the tank attaed to the glass with a suction cap. and the readings on that are 0.02 - Safe (yellow colour), 0.05 - Alert (green colour, 0.2 - Alarm (light blue colour), 0.5 - Toxic (dark blue colour) Lisa ------------------------------------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the home page. Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com to receive the digest, which includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com for the No E-Mail option where you will still be able to read messages on the group and post replies. Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com to receive individual e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 42779	From: Matthew O' Farrell	Date: 8/18/2009
Subject: Re: New Tank

--- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, Deenerz@... wrote: > I learned many years ago not to use CAE with flat fish such as Discus,Angelfish,Uaru and such. Once they realize there is food on the sides of fish that use slime to feed there babies they will worry that fish to death. I lost wild discus because of there eating the slime off of the fish by constantly harrassing them for there slime. They are good in a tetra or barb tank with fast moving fish. But once the algea is gone they look for something else to eat and sometimes even sleeping fish get nailed. I prefere bushy nose ancistrus in my tanks to clean algea and when there is none they eat zuccinni(i think thats how it's spelled)or flake food etc,etc. Matty > > I have seen CAE's latched on to the sides of goldfish in chain pet stores. > > The staff was completely oblivious to it. > > > > -Mike > > > -----Original Message----- > From: Donna Ransome <djransome@...> > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Sent: Mon, Aug 17, 2009 4:11 am > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: New Tank > > > > > > > > As CAE’s mature they eat less algae and become more aggressive. I agree > with Steve. > > _____ > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On > Behalf Of Leanna > Sent: Sunday, August 16, 2009 11:47 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: New Tank > > i relaly like my CAE they spend all day sucking on my decor and glass. there > nonstop. i have the gold ones, there considrably diffrent than the silver > ones my mother has some of thows in her tank at work(ugg that things a mess) > and they whent from an inch long to about 4 and are still growing. mine > havent grown at all and if there not sucking on gunk in my tank there eating > the alge waffor i dropt in a s a treat. > > maby the petstore labled them wrong or your thinking of another fish. thanks > to my little guys iv never had an alge problume. > > oh and to awnser some other questions: > > i will deffanitly be clycaling my new tank i plann to use my current tanks > gravle, decor and eventuly fillter pad to aid in the groth of bacteria. > > sadly i havent go my tank yet i still have to pay it off but im trying to > get every thing planned out before its redy to stock. > > --- In Aqua > ticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com, > "Steve Szabo" <steve@> wrote: > > > > Leanna, > > > > I would move the Chinese algae eaters out, and find them a new home. They > are not algae eaters, but will eat the slime off your other fish, to their > detriment. If you have enough algae, you can replace them with a group of > otocinclus, or a couple of bristle-nose ancistrus (pleco). > > > > Dwarf gouramis are nice, particularly if you can find any with a natural > coloration. If given enough hiding places in the tank, either via plantings > or other décor, they become less than timid, and the male may rule the tank. > Your other fish will also benefit from a heavily planted tank, displaying > well for you. > > > > Since the guppies and swords are basically top level fish, you would want > to look for fish that will inhabit the lower two thirds of your tank. With > this in mind, you might want to look at the various rasboras that are > available in your area. The most common are the Harlequin rasbora. > (_Trigonostigma heteromorpha_). > > > > A group of zebra fish would also be nice, and they are very active. > > > > Stay away from white clouds. They display and do best at 70° and lower, > and the fish you would want to keep do better at higher temperatures. > > > > What you really need to do is to go visit the stores in your area, see > what they have available, choose the fish you think you might like to have, > then research them and how they will fit, if they will fit, into your > presen > t tank. You can find information many places on the web, but Mongabay > and Badman's Fishroom are among the most reliable sources of information. > Then, when you have found a good fit, go out and buy the fish, quarantine > them and eventually add them to your new tank. > > > > \\Steve// > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com > [mailto:AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com] > On Behalf Of Leanna > > Sent: Sunday, August 16, 2009 9:19 PM > > To: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com > > Subject: [AquaticLife] New Tank > > > > haaaay-lo > > > > ok so i JUST got a new tank (58 gallon with canister filter and lovley > black wood stand) > > > > i was wondering what i could put in it along with my current fish i have > > > > 2 male fancy guppies > > 2 female fancy guppies > > 2 golden chinease alge eaters > > 1 male sward tail > > 1 female sward tail > > > > and one of my lady guppies just had 13 lovley children. i dont intend on > keeping them of them. likely only a cuppel. > > > > i would love to get some more fish to fill out my new tank. i LOVE glass > cats a dwarf blue gramis. > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 42780	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 8/18/2009
Subject: Re: My fish are dieing!

Courtland, The KH level of 35.8 is listed in ppm, not dH (degrees of Hardness). I'm sure Lisa actually converted the 2 dH to 35.8ppm since 1 dH = 17.9 ppm, so the math works out perfectly. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Courtland Jacob Sent: Tuesday, August 18, 2009 1:51 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: My fish are dieing! where do you live that you have a pH of 7 ummmm ok this might sound crazy, but it's somehting i looked up because i was concerned about the KH and pH apparently in order for the pH to remain at 7 with a hardness as high as 35.8 the CO2 levels would have to be well above what is considered toxic for fish, 40mg/liter of CO2 is considered toxic and if I am thinking correctly your at about 90 mg/liter do you have enough water movement to oxygenate your water? are you adding CO2 to your water since you have plants? the other issue you could be having is that your pH is 7 because your nitrates are bonding with the H+ ions to create nitric acid instead of lowering the pH, so if your tank is truely cycled this could explain the lack of nitrates so i guess the question is, do you have more ammonia than you think, is there too much CO2 in the water, or are you adding something to the tank to mess with the pH --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Lisa" <lisa_lawless2004@...> wrote: > > They others seem to be acting like normal The only new plant in there > is a Wisteria that floats. No new fish had been added. > Both the Molli and the male swordtail were on top of this plant at the waters surfce when i found them. > Could this be behaviour like an elephant? They know they're going to die, so they hide? > > > These ar ethe resaults BEFORE i did a pwc Temp - 25* 77 F PH - 7 > Amonia - 0.05 KH - 35.8 Niterite - 0 ppm Niterate - 0 ppm > > The amonia for 5 - 6 days is normally 0.00ppm, it's really only the last couple of days before the pwc that i sometimes get this reading. And the tank is due for it's clean today. > And everytime i do a pwc, the amonia always drops back to 0.00ppm > > Lisa

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 42781	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 8/18/2009
Subject: Re: My fish are dieing!

Dora, The SeaChem Ammonia Alerts work fine. The user just has to read the FAQ's on them to understand that they measure only free ammonia, not total ammonia. I already explained this to Lisa in an earlier post. One of the articles on my A to Z Of Fishkeeping page is about Fishless Cycling a tank using only a SeaChem Ammonia Alert to monitor ammonia levels instead of doing daily testing. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Dora Smith Sent: Tuesday, August 18, 2009 7:44 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: My fish are dieing! Lisa, that kind of ammonia kit doesn't work well at all. The best thing is to get an API master test kit, available for $25 - $30 at most pet and fish stores; tetra is better than nothing. I was waiting for someone to tell you, and maybe Lenny did and I just didn't see it. The usual cause of disease in fish is a water quality issue. Yours, Dora Smith Austin, TX tiggernut24@... ----- Original Message ----- From: "Lisa" <lisa_lawless2004@...> To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Monday, August 17, 2009 10:42 PM Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: My fish are dieing! I have an u/g filter. and all, bar one, of the plants in my tank are real Wisteria, dwarf anubias and an amazon sword My amonia test kit isn't liquid based. It sits in the tank attaed to the glass with a suction cap. and the readings on that are 0.02 - Safe (yellow colour), 0.05 - Alert (green colour, 0.2 - Alarm (light blue colour), 0.5 - Toxic (dark blue colour) Lisa

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 42782	From: Courtland Jacob	Date: 8/18/2009
Subject: Re: My fish are dieing!

I see what you mean about the dH lenny, could a buffer still be the problem if it's not an ammonia problem? nitric acid is the actual end product of the nitrogen cycle, but it's supposed to break down into free H+ ions and nitrate, which is why pH ultimately decreases as nitrate increases, if her tank was properly cycled and she adds a pH buffer to her water then that could be preventing the nitric acid from breaking down causing a build up. what i would do if i was her is bring a sample of water to her LFS because most of them offer free water testing and they can test for a lot more than the home kit can without buying a bunch of extra stuff --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@...> wrote: > > Dora, > > The SeaChem Ammonia Alerts work fine. The user just has to read the FAQ's > on them to understand that they measure only free ammonia, not total > ammonia. I already explained this to Lisa in an earlier post. > > One of the articles on my A to Z Of Fishkeeping page is about Fishless > Cycling a tank using only a SeaChem Ammonia Alert to monitor ammonia levels > instead of doing daily testing. > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right > side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) > > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On > Behalf Of Dora Smith > Sent: Tuesday, August 18, 2009 7:44 AM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: My fish are dieing! > > Lisa, that kind of ammonia kit doesn't work well at all. The best thing is > > to get an API master test kit, available for $25 - $30 at most pet and fish > stores; tetra is better than nothing. > > I was waiting for someone to tell you, and maybe Lenny did and I just didn't > > see it. The usual cause of disease in fish is a water quality issue. > > Yours, > Dora Smith > Austin, TX > tiggernut24@... > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Lisa" <lisa_lawless2004@...> > To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com> > Sent: Monday, August 17, 2009 10:42 PM > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: My fish are dieing! > > > > I have an u/g filter. > and all, bar one, of the plants in my tank are real > > Wisteria, dwarf anubias and an amazon sword > > My amonia test kit isn't liquid based. It sits in the tank attaed to the > glass with a suction cap. > and the readings on that are > > 0.02 - Safe (yellow colour), > 0.05 - Alert (green colour, > 0.2 - Alarm (light blue colour), > 0.5 - Toxic (dark blue colour) > > Lisa >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 42783	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 8/18/2009
Subject: Re: My fish are dieing!

Just make sure to get numbers rather than, "Good or bad" answers like some fish stores will give. Amber Courtland Jacob wrote: > > > I see what you mean about the dH lenny, could a buffer still be the > problem if it's not an ammonia problem? nitric acid is the actual end > product of the nitrogen cycle, but it's supposed to break down into > free H+ ions and nitrate, which is why pH ultimately decreases as > nitrate increases, if her tank was properly cycled and she adds a pH > buffer to her water then that could be preventing the nitric acid from > breaking down causing a build up. what i would do if i was her is > bring a sample of water to her LFS because most of them offer free > water testing and they can test for a lot more than the home kit can > without buying a bunch of extra stuff > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>, "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" > <GoldLenny@...> wrote: > > > > Dora, > > > > The SeaChem Ammonia Alerts work fine. The user just has to read the > FAQ's > > on them to understand that they measure only free ammonia, not total > > ammonia. I already explained this to Lisa in an earlier post. > > > > One of the articles on my A to Z Of Fishkeeping page is about Fishless > > Cycling a tank using only a SeaChem Ammonia Alert to monitor ammonia > levels > > instead of doing daily testing. > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right > > side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, > Month) > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On > > Behalf Of Dora Smith > > Sent: Tuesday, August 18, 2009 7:44 AM > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: My fish are dieing! > > > > Lisa, that kind of ammonia kit doesn't work well at all. The best > thing is > > > > to get an API master test kit, available for $25 - $30 at most pet > and fish > > stores; tetra is better than nothing. > > > > I was waiting for someone to tell you, and maybe Lenny did and I > just didn't > > > > see it. The usual cause of disease in fish is a water quality issue. > > > > Yours, > > Dora Smith > > Austin, TX > > tiggernut24@... > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: "Lisa" <lisa_lawless2004@...> > > To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>> > > Sent: Monday, August 17, 2009 10:42 PM > > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: My fish are dieing! > > > > > > > > I have an u/g filter. > > and all, bar one, of the plants in my tank are real > > > > Wisteria, dwarf anubias and an amazon sword > > > > My amonia test kit isn't liquid based. It sits in the tank attaed to > the > > glass with a suction cap. > > and the readings on that are > > > > 0.02 - Safe (yellow colour), > > 0.05 - Alert (green colour, > > 0.2 - Alarm (light blue colour), > > 0.5 - Toxic (dark blue colour) > > > > Lisa > > > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 42784	From: Courtland Jacob	Date: 8/18/2009
Subject: Re: tetra safe start

ok so i broke down and spent the 14 and some change to buy the safe start, and almost instanty the ammonia was being converted into nitrite, I went to dinner tested for nitrate and there is a good level of that as well, I am highly impressed that this stuff actually worked, now i would never our it in and add fish, but it's great to use to kick start your fishless cycle --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Courtland Jacob" <courtland_jacob@...> wrote: > > does it work, yes or no? >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 42785	From: Lisa	Date: 8/18/2009
Subject: Re: My fish are dieing!

Thanks guys. The only logical reason i can think of then, is that i have recently been adding additional liquid plant food. I think by memory the brand is API... My water is slightly yellow, but that is due to the tannon from the drift wood that i have in there, so i'm not worried about that. But i think i will stop adding plant food for a while. see if that helps Lisa

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 42786	From: Courtland Jacob	Date: 8/18/2009
Subject: Re: My fish are dieing!

that shouldn't kill fish unless you are seriously overdosing --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Lisa" <lisa_lawless2004@...> wrote: > > Thanks guys. > The only logical reason i can think of then, is that i have recently been adding additional liquid plant food. I think by memory the brand is API... > My water is slightly yellow, but that is due to the tannon from the drift wood that i have in there, so i'm not worried about that. > But i think i will stop adding plant food for a while. see if that helps > > Lisa >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 42787	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 8/18/2009
Subject: Re: My fish are dieing!

Have you been keeping a log of your pH? Usually the tannins from driftwood will cause the pH to drop. It shouldn't act fast enough to harm the fish but if I'm not mistaken, these were livebearers that died... right? (I wish Yahoogroups would include the entire thread when folks reply from the website.. arghhhh!) Anyhow, if the pH has dropped a lot from where it was, that could cause added stress to fish that like a higher pH and were in water with a higher pH... until the driftwood started leaching the tannins. Also, double check the instructions on the plant food and let us know the exact brand name of the product. Most manufacturers make several different types of plant foods and I'm looking at the API page on Plant Care and they have a few products, so let us know which one you are using. http://www.aquariumpharm.com/Products/Product.aspx?ProductID=54 The only one I see that appears to be a liquid is the API Leaf Zone which says: Promotes the lush, beautiful growth of aquatic plants. Leaf Zone is formulated for rapid absorption through plant leaves. Contains chelated iron and potassium essential for lush green leaves. Are you adding any other additives? Which dechlor product do you use? I've never used any kinds of plant additives in my tanks but I only keep easy-to-grow, low-light plants so the fish waste is enough for them to do well. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Lisa Sent: Tuesday, August 18, 2009 7:51 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: My fish are dieing! Thanks guys. The only logical reason i can think of then, is that i have recently been adding additional liquid plant food. I think by memory the brand is API... My water is slightly yellow, but that is due to the tannon from the drift wood that i have in there, so i'm not worried about that. But i think i will stop adding plant food for a while. see if that helps Lisa ------------------------------------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 42788	From: jules27au	Date: 8/18/2009
Subject: Suicide Fish..Not Suicide Blonde!

Hi All, I recently moved, my beloved silver dollar didn't make the trip.. When I set up the tank again, I let it run for a few days & then added 5 mollies & a sucking catfish, together with some grass the petshop recomended. All good for about a week & then the mollies commenced suicide.. Last night I checked on my catfish, he was O.K.. went to change the water & found him either frozen or mouldy.. My tank is heated at 20 degrees C & my local pet shop tested my water to be O.K.. My tank is 60 litres & looked fab. I live in Australia where I wake up everymorning to a frost. Do I give up & get cat?

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 42789	From: Lisa	Date: 8/18/2009
Subject: Re: My fish are dieing!

I do have the API Leaf Zone. I have low light plants (Amazon on driftwood, Dwarf anubias on driftwood, and a floating wisteria. And with regard to the water conditioner, I use a drip bottle, with conditioner formulated for bettas. And i have always used this, even after i got my 22gal. Cause i find it a good brand, and is easy to use, mess free, and lasts a long time I don't log my PH They were livebarers yes. Lisa --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@...> wrote: > > Have you been keeping a log of your pH? Usually the tannins from driftwood > will cause the pH to drop. It shouldn't act fast enough to harm the fish > but if I'm not mistaken, these were livebearers that died... right? (I wish > Yahoogroups would include the entire thread when folks reply from the > website.. arghhhh!) Anyhow, if the pH has dropped a lot from where it was, > that could cause added stress to fish that like a higher pH and were in > water with a higher pH... until the driftwood started leaching the tannins. > > Also, double check the instructions on the plant food and let us know the > exact brand name of the product. Most manufacturers make several different > types of plant foods and I'm looking at the API page on Plant Care and they > have a few products, so let us know which one you are using. The only > one I see that appears to be a liquid is the API Leaf Zone which says: > Promotes the lush, beautiful growth of aquatic plants. Leaf Zone is > formulated for rapid absorption through plant leaves. Contains chelated iron > and potassium essential for lush green leaves. > > Are you adding any other additives? Which dechlor product do you use? > > I've never used any kinds of plant additives in my tanks but I only keep > easy-to-grow, low-light plants so the fish waste is enough for them to do > well. > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right > side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On > Behalf Of Lisa > Sent: Tuesday, August 18, 2009 7:51 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: My fish are dieing! > > Thanks guys. > The only logical reason i can think of then, is that i have recently been > adding additional liquid plant food. I think by memory the brand is API... > My water is slightly yellow, but that is due to the tannon from the drift > wood that i have in there, so i'm not worried about that. > But i think i will stop adding plant food for a while. see if that helps > > Lisa > > > > ------------------------------------ > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 42790	From: mosquitokr2002	Date: 8/18/2009
Subject: Re: Suicide Fish..Not Suicide Blonde!

20 degrees C (68F) is too cold for most tropicals. I think with the cold mornings, the heater was struggling to keep the water temperature even at that low level. I keep the water in my south american tank at 25-27C year round > My tank is heated at 20 degrees C & my local pet shop tested my water to be O.K.. My tank is 60 litres & looked fab. > > I live in Australia where I wake up everymorning to a frost. > > Do I give up & get cat? >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 42791	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 8/18/2009
Subject: Re: My fish are dieing!

What is the brand name on the dechlor product? Remember that Bettas can breathe at the surface so they do not have to use their gills as much so there may be stuff in a conditioner designed to be sold to Betta keepers who have the Bettas in undersized bowls/vases. For example, here is API's Betta Water Conditioner description... http://aquariumpharm.com/Products/Product.aspx?ProductID=137 "A multi-purpose water treatment that instantly makes tap water safe for Bettas by removing chlorine, chloramines and heavy metals, as well as detoxifying ammonia. It also aids in reducing stress, promotion of healing and oxygen transfer across gills. It contains a special polymer that forms a synthetic slime coat for fish to reduce stress and minimize susceptibility to disease. It also contains Aloe Vera, to naturally promote the healing of skin wounds and reduce inflammation of damaged tissue. And it contains Green Tea Extract which has been proven to be beneficial to fish. When Green Tea Extract is added to water in the presence of Bettas, it works as an antioxidant in the red blood cells." (END SNIP) I'm sorry but IMO, folks simply should NOT use these kinds of products in their fish tanks. I have yet to see God pouring this kind of stuff in the water supply and He's been raising fish longer than any of us. There simply is NO reason to add "Aloe Vera", "special polymer to form synthetic slime coat", "Green Tea Extract", or any other chemicals to your fishes water. A simple dechlor product that treats chlorine/chloramine and heave metals is all that is needed. All of the stress-this, slime-that type junk is simply turning your tank into a chemical waste dump. API makes a perfectly good Tap Water Conditioner that will ONLY treat the things that are needed without adding a bunch of other chemicals to the water. While the Betta might be able to survive the chemical waste dump, since they can breathe air from the surface, your other fish are forced to suck in all these chemicals through their gills. I'm not saying that this is the cause of your fish deaths... just that there is no reason to spend money on added chemicals that likely do more harm than good. You can run some fresh carbon in your filter for a couple of weeks which will help to remove the yellow coloring and tannins from the water. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Lisa Sent: Tuesday, August 18, 2009 10:55 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: My fish are dieing! I do have the API Leaf Zone. I have low light plants (Amazon on driftwood, Dwarf anubias on driftwood, and a floating wisteria. And with regard to the water conditioner, I use a drip bottle, with conditioner formulated for bettas. And i have always used this, even after i got my 22gal. Cause i find it a good brand, and is easy to use, mess free, and lasts a long time I don't log my PH They were livebarers yes. Lisa --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@...> wrote: > > Have you been keeping a log of your pH? Usually the tannins from > driftwood will cause the pH to drop. It shouldn't act fast enough to > harm the fish but if I'm not mistaken, these were livebearers that > died... right? (I wish Yahoogroups would include the entire thread > when folks reply from the website.. arghhhh!) Anyhow, if the pH has > dropped a lot from where it was, that could cause added stress to fish > that like a higher pH and were in water with a higher pH... until the driftwood started leaching the tannins. > > Also, double check the instructions on the plant food and let us know > the exact brand name of the product. Most manufacturers make several > different types of plant foods and I'm looking at the API page on > Plant Care and they have a few products, so let us know which one you are using. The only > one I see that appears to be a liquid is the API Leaf Zone which says: > Promotes the lush, beautiful growth of aquatic plants. Leaf Zone is > formulated for rapid absorption through plant leaves. Contains > chelated iron and potassium essential for lush green leaves. > > Are you adding any other additives? Which dechlor product do you use? > > I've never used any kinds of plant additives in my tanks but I only > keep easy-to-grow, low-light plants so the fish waste is enough for > them to do well. > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles > referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically > under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] > On Behalf Of Lisa > Sent: Tuesday, August 18, 2009 7:51 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: My fish are dieing! > > Thanks guys. > The only logical reason i can think of then, is that i have recently > been adding additional liquid plant food. I think by memory the brand is API... > My water is slightly yellow, but that is due to the tannon from the > drift wood that i have in there, so i'm not worried about that. > But i think i will stop adding plant food for a while. see if that > helps > > Lisa

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 42792	From: Raymond Wetzel	Date: 8/19/2009
Subject: Re: Suicide Fish..Not Suicide Blonde!

Agreed, 20 o C is too cold for prolonged tropical fish maintenance, even though many will tolerate it short-term as the bottom of their range. Then too, the higher end of this 25 - 27 o C range year round is unnecessarily warm for most tropicals. When fish are exposed to prolonged periods at temperatures nearer the higher end of their range, they become less tolerant of temperature drops -- even if those drops prove to be above 21 o C -- and will be more prone to illnesses if your heater fails -- much more so than fish being kept in a lower range. Most tropical fish will be quite comfortable in the vicinity of 24 o C to 25 o C. For those members trying to follow this and who aren't familiar with the Centigrade (Celsius) Scale, 27 o C is 80.6 o F. 21 o C = about 70 o F, 24 o C = 75.2 o F and 25 o C = 77 o F. Ray --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "mosquitokr2002" <mosquitokr2002@...> wrote: > > 20 degrees C (68F) is too cold for most tropicals. I think with the cold mornings, the heater was struggling to keep the water temperature even at that low level. I keep the water in my south american tank at 25-27C year round > > > > My tank is heated at 20 degrees C & my local pet shop tested my water to be O.K.. My tank is 60 litres & looked fab. > > > > I live in Australia where I wake up everymorning to a frost. > > > > Do I give up & get cat? > > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 42793	From: Raymond Wetzel	Date: 8/19/2009
Subject: Re: Suicide Fish..Not Suicide Blonde!

While statements here point to the low temperature that these fish were being kept at as the cause for their demise, please keep in mind that for us to assist in problems stemming from water parameter issues, we need more than "my local pet shop tested the water to be O.K." While we're apprehensively glad that the reports indicate the water is "okay," we still don't know what is meant by the LFS as being okay as that can cover a broad range. If the shop tells a customer their water is okay, you need to get the numbers so we can know just where those parameters are registering -- and if the shop has given all the numbers and the hobbyists see them all as "okay," we need to know those numbers rather than to be told the water is okay. In this way, we'll know best how to proceed from there if there is a problem still being encountered. Ray --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "jules27au" <jules27au@...> wrote: > > Hi All, > > I recently moved, my beloved silver dollar didn't make the trip.. > > When I set up the tank again, I let it run for a few days & then added 5 mollies & a sucking catfish, together with some grass the petshop recomended. > > All good for about a week & then the mollies commenced suicide.. > > Last night I checked on my catfish, he was O.K.. went to change the water & found him either frozen or mouldy.. > > My tank is heated at 20 degrees C & my local pet shop tested my water to be O.K.. My tank is 60 litres & looked fab. > > I live in Australia where I wake up everymorning to a frost. > > Do I give up & get cat? >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 42794	From: Gail	Date: 8/19/2009
Subject: Re: Suicide Fish..Not Suicide Blonde!

Definitely invest in a water test kit. My local petstore would test my water, and the people that worked there would just tell me that my water had a lot of alkaline. This was no help. If you find out your Ph, ammonia, etc. The people here, can really help you nail down the source of the problem. Also, did you mention if you had a tank heater? If not, maybe you should invest in one. Isn't it winter in Austrailia? thanks, gail --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Raymond Wetzel" <sevenspringss@...> wrote: > > While statements here point to the low temperature that these fish were being kept at as the cause for their demise, please keep in mind that for us to assist in problems stemming from water parameter issues, we need more than "my local pet shop tested the water to be O.K." While we're apprehensively glad that the reports indicate the water is "okay," we still don't know what is meant by the LFS as being okay as that can cover a broad range. If the shop tells a customer their water is okay, you need to get the numbers so we can know just where those parameters are registering -- and if the shop has given all the numbers and the hobbyists see them all as "okay," we need to know those numbers rather than to be told the water is okay. In this way, we'll know best how to proceed from there if there is a problem still being encountered. Ray > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "jules27au" <jules27au@> wrote: > > > > Hi All, > > > > I recently moved, my beloved silver dollar didn't make the trip.. > > > > When I set up the tank again, I let it run for a few days & then added 5 mollies & a sucking catfish, together with some grass the petshop recomended. > > > > All good for about a week & then the mollies commenced suicide.. > > > > Last night I checked on my catfish, he was O.K.. went to change the water & found him either frozen or mouldy.. > > > > My tank is heated at 20 degrees C & my local pet shop tested my water to be O.K.. My tank is 60 litres & looked fab. > > > > I live in Australia where I wake up everymorning to a frost. > > > > Do I give up & get cat? > > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 42795	From: bill 1433	Date: 8/19/2009
Subject: About Fish On Line?

For those wishing to buy or worse, need to buy, fish on line I've just had a very nice experience with a seller from Aqua bid.  They go by the sales name of Blueram06 and by typing that name in the search box at Aqua Bid you will come to their site of available items.  They are numerous to say the least.    Can't find exactly what you need?  Just ask!  Their names are Jay & Barbara and they are great folks to deal with. They currently entertain a 100% customer approval rating and their fish are all top notch.  In addition, you may find that their shipping charges are quite reasonable too.  If you would just like to email them directly you may do so here:  blueram06@...   Give them a try and if you think of it; tell them Bill sent you!   Bill

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 42796	From: Julie Roughley	Date: 8/19/2009
Subject: Re: Suicide Fish..Not Suicide Blonde!

Hi, It's winter in Australia & I live in the southern part, but not Tasmania!  In my kitchen right now, it's 10 degrees I do have a heater, filter, weed etc & change the water weekly. So what kind of fish will tolerate these temperatures & how long does it take for the water kits to reach their expiry date? ________________________________ From: Gail <clandestine662002@...> To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Thursday, 20 August, 2009 12:54:01 AM Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Suicide Fish..Not Suicide Blonde!   Definitely invest in a water test kit. My local petstore would test my water, and the people that worked there would just tell me that my water had a lot of alkaline. This was no help. If you find out your Ph, ammonia, etc. The people here, can really help you nail down the source of the problem. Also, did you mention if you had a tank heater? If not, maybe you should invest in one. Isn't it winter in Austrailia? thanks, gail --- In AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com, "Raymond Wetzel" <sevenspringss@ ...> wrote: > > While statements here point to the low temperature that these fish were being kept at as the cause for their demise, please keep in mind that for us to assist in problems stemming from water parameter issues, we need more than "my local pet shop tested the water to be O.K." While we're apprehensively glad that the reports indicate the water is "okay," we still don't know what is meant by the LFS as being okay as that can cover a broad range. If the shop tells a customer their water is okay, you need to get the numbers so we can know just where those parameters are registering -- and if the shop has given all the numbers and the hobbyists see them all as "okay," we need to know those numbers rather than to be told the water is okay. In this way, we'll know best how to proceed from there if there is a problem still being encountered. Ray > > > > --- In AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com, "jules27au" <jules27au@> wrote: > > > > Hi All, > > > > I recently moved, my beloved silver dollar didn't make the trip.. > > > > When I set up the tank again, I let it run for a few days & then added 5 mollies & a sucking catfish, together with some grass the petshop recomended. > > > > All good for about a week & then the mollies commenced suicide.. > > > > Last night I checked on my catfish, he was O.K.. went to change the water & found him either frozen or mouldy.. > > > > My tank is heated at 20 degrees C & my local pet shop tested my water to be O.K.. My tank is 60 litres & looked fab. > > > > I live in Australia where I wake up everymorning to a frost. > > > > Do I give up & get cat? > > > __________________________________________________________________________________ Find local businesses and services in your area with Yahoo!7 Local. Get started: http://local.yahoo.com.au [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 42797	From: Robb	Date: 8/19/2009
Subject: Nitrite.

I have been dealing with a fishless cycle and thought I was about done. then I find out my TAP water straight from the tap and even setting treated with water conditioner still has a Nitrite reading of .05. I did a water test on every tap in my house and they are all the same. I'm just wondering if anything can be done. With the Tap water (treated) convert over to 0 ever or am I pretty much screwed? Is there anything that will remove nitrite from my water? Even if I installed an RO unit I'd still have to buffer it and I'd get nitrite right? OK I just tested the R/O water it has been sitting in a blue water jug and the reading are Nitrite .25 Ammonia .00 Nitrate .00 PH 6.0 Water Hardness 0.00 So every-time I do a water change I'll be added Nitrite back into the water what can be done if anything?

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 42798	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 8/19/2009
Subject: Re: Suicide Fish..Not Suicide Blonde!

What size tank do you have and how many watts is your heater? Perhaps the heater is not powerful enough for your tank. Amber Julie Roughley wrote: > > > Hi, > > It's winter in Australia & I live in the southern part, but not > Tasmania! In my kitchen right now, it's 10 degrees > > I do have a heater, filter, weed etc & change the water weekly. > > So what kind of fish will tolerate these temperatures & how long does > it take for the water kits to reach their expiry date? > > ________________________________ > From: Gail <clandestine662002@... > <mailto:clandestine662002%40yahoo.com>> > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Sent: Thursday, 20 August, 2009 12:54:01 AM > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Suicide Fish..Not Suicide Blonde! > > > Definitely invest in a water test kit. My local petstore would test my > water, and the people that worked there would just tell me that my > water had a lot of alkaline. This was no help. If you find out your > Ph, ammonia, etc. The people here, can really help you nail down the > source of the problem. > > Also, did you mention if you had a tank heater? If not, maybe you > should invest in one. Isn't it winter in Austrailia? > > thanks, > gail > > --- In AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com, "Raymond Wetzel" <sevenspringss@ > ...> wrote: > > > > While statements here point to the low temperature that these fish > were being kept at as the cause for their demise, please keep in mind > that for us to assist in problems stemming from water parameter > issues, we need more than "my local pet shop tested the water to be > O.K." While we're apprehensively glad that the reports indicate the > water is "okay," we still don't know what is meant by the LFS as being > okay as that can cover a broad range. If the shop tells a customer > their water is okay, you need to get the numbers so we can know just > where those parameters are registering -- and if the shop has given > all the numbers and the hobbyists see them all as "okay," we need to > know those numbers rather than to be told the water is okay. In this > way, we'll know best how to proceed from there if there is a problem > still being encountered. Ray > > > > > > > > --- In AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com, "jules27au" <jules27au@> wrote: > > > > > > Hi All, > > > > > > I recently moved, my beloved silver dollar didn't make the trip.. > > > > > > When I set up the tank again, I let it run for a few days & then > added 5 mollies & a sucking catfish, together with some grass the > petshop recomended. > > > > > > All good for about a week & then the mollies commenced suicide.. > > > > > > Last night I checked on my catfish, he was O.K.. went to change > the water & found him either frozen or mouldy.. > > > > > > My tank is heated at 20 degrees C & my local pet shop tested my > water to be O.K.. My tank is 60 litres & looked fab. > > > > > > I live in Australia where I wake up everymorning to a frost. > > > > > > Do I give up & get cat? > > > > > > > __________________________________________________________ > Find local businesses and services in your area with Yahoo!7 Local. > Get started: http://local.yahoo.com.au <http://local.yahoo.com.au> > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 42799	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 8/19/2009
Subject: Re: Nitrite.

yes, eventually nitrite will be turned into Nitrate, so you don't have to worry too much about your fishless cycle, eventually it will catch up, right now it's probably not used to having so much nitrite to convert to nitrate, I'm sure it will adjust itself fairly quickly as once the bacteria has started growing it grows rather fast. Amber Robb wrote: > > > I have been dealing with a fishless cycle and thought I was about > done. then I find out my TAP water straight from the tap and even > setting treated with water conditioner still has a Nitrite reading of > .05. I did a water test on every tap in my house and they are all the > same. > > I'm just wondering if anything can be done. With the Tap water > (treated) convert over to 0 ever or am I pretty much screwed? > > Is there anything that will remove nitrite from my water? Even if I > installed an RO unit I'd still have to buffer it and I'd get nitrite > right? > > OK I just tested the R/O water it has been sitting in a blue water jug > and the reading are > > Nitrite .25 > Ammonia .00 > Nitrate .00 > PH 6.0 > Water Hardness 0.00 > > So every-time I do a water change I'll be added Nitrite back into the > water what can be done if anything? > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 42800	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 8/19/2009
Subject: Wow, dead snails make for a very icky looking tank

Okay I found that I had a dead snail in my tank a couple days ago (and of course removed it), it was the one I saved from the filter incident, apparently he/she did not make it. I also lost a danio at the same time, perhaps the ammonia got too high and I wasn't testing (my bad). I thought I had over cleaned my filter or something again and caused the white cloudiness. Well it's now going away since I've done PWC's this week and of course removed all the dead things ;) Thankfully I think it was only the snail and the one danio that I lost. I have plenty of baby guppy's to make up for the 1 danio loss, LOL. Amber

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 42801	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 8/19/2009
Subject: Re: Suicide Fish..Not Suicide Blonde!

There are many cool/cold water fish that will tolerate and thrive in the lower temperatures you are experiencing. See last two paragraphs. Your other option is to add a second heater to your tank since the one you have is not able to keep up with the ambient temperature (room temp). Many folks who keep their homes at a regular temperature of 75F might only need 1-2 Watts per gallon to keep their tank at 78-80F. Other folks might need 3 watts per gallon. In your case, you would probably need 5-6 watts per gallon. In these situations, it's best to have more than one QUALITY heater so that you have redundancy and to have the heaters spread out to provide better and more consistent heating. When you do your weekly PWC's (partial water changes) (VERY GOOD!!!), you must also make sure your incoming water is within a couple of degrees F (or 1 degree C) of the tank's water temperature so you do not shock the fish when doing a PWC. You mentioned a weekly "water change" but it is best to only change out around 25% to 33% of the water each week, or more often if needed. I hope you are not doing 100% water changes or larger than 33%, as in those cases, you have to make sure the incoming water is almost identical in water parameters to the existing tank water. Here's a partial list of some of the common cool/cold water fish, many of which are sold as tropical fish in fish stores... but they are actually cool water fish. http://freshaquarium.about.com/od/fishqa/f/coldwaterfish.htm Here's a list of MORE articles about coldwater fish tanks/ponds. http://www.aquarticles.com/articles/ponds/index.html#Coldwater Last but not least... don't give up and get a cat... a dog maybe... but not a cat. I guess you can tell I'm a dog and fish person. LOL Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Julie Roughley Sent: Wednesday, August 19, 2009 4:38 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: Suicide Fish..Not Suicide Blonde! Hi, It's winter in Australia & I live in the southern part, but not Tasmania!  In my kitchen right now, it's 10 degrees I do have a heater, filter, weed etc & change the water weekly. So what kind of fish will tolerate these temperatures & how long does it take for the water kits to reach their expiry date? ________________________________ From: Gail <clandestine662002@...> To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Thursday, 20 August, 2009 12:54:01 AM Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Suicide Fish..Not Suicide Blonde!   Definitely invest in a water test kit. My local petstore would test my water, and the people that worked there would just tell me that my water had a lot of alkaline. This was no help. If you find out your Ph, ammonia, etc. The people here, can really help you nail down the source of the problem. Also, did you mention if you had a tank heater? If not, maybe you should invest in one. Isn't it winter in Austrailia? thanks, gail --- In AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com, "Raymond Wetzel" <sevenspringss@ ...> wrote: > > While statements here point to the low temperature that these fish > were being kept at as the cause for their demise, please keep in mind > that for us to assist in problems stemming from water parameter > issues, we need more than "my local pet shop tested the water to be > O.K." While we're apprehensively glad that the reports indicate the > water is "okay," we still don't know what is meant by the LFS as being > okay as that can cover a broad range. If the shop tells a customer > their water is okay, you need to get the numbers so we can know just > where those parameters are registering -- and if the shop has given > all the numbers and the hobbyists see them all as "okay," we need to > know those numbers rather than to be told the water is okay. In this > way, we'll know best how to proceed from there if there is a problem > still being encountered. Ray > > > > --- In AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com, "jules27au" <jules27au@> wrote: > > > > Hi All, > > > > I recently moved, my beloved silver dollar didn't make the trip.. > > > > When I set up the tank again, I let it run for a few days & then added 5 mollies & a sucking catfish, together with some grass the petshop recomended. > > > > All good for about a week & then the mollies commenced suicide.. > > > > Last night I checked on my catfish, he was O.K.. went to change the water & found him either frozen or mouldy.. > > > > My tank is heated at 20 degrees C & my local pet shop tested my water to be O.K.. My tank is 60 litres & looked fab. > > > > I live in Australia where I wake up everymorning to a frost. > > > > Do I give up & get cat?

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 42802	From: robbrouse	Date: 8/19/2009
Subject: Re: Nitrite.

What about after the cycle and the fish are there? Will that low amount be OK for the 25% water changes? I have a 55 gallon tank. --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, Amber Berglund <arberglund@...> wrote: > > yes, eventually nitrite will be turned into Nitrate, so you don't have > to worry too much about your fishless cycle, eventually it will catch > up, right now it's probably not used to having so much nitrite to > convert to nitrate, I'm sure it will adjust itself fairly quickly as > once the bacteria has started growing it grows rather fast. > > Amber

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 42803	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 8/19/2009
Subject: Re: Nitrite.

That low level of nitrite is not a problem. There's nothing to worry about. It's the same level as many folks test for ammonia in their tap water. I get a 0.5ppm ammonia reading due to my local utility using chloramine (chlorine and ammonia agent) to disinfect our water. When doing a 25% PWC, this would mean a temporary increase of only 0.125ppm of nitrite (or in my case, ammonia) being added to the tank but since the filters are running while the new water is being added, the nitrite (or in my case ammonia) is immediately converted through the nitrogen cycle. Remember that the fish are constantly putting out ammonia, which is then converted to nitrite and then nitrate by the nitrifying bacteria colonies you are growing in your tank with your fishless cycling. If anything, this might be why your fishless cycling is happening faster than others who start from scratch. Most people have to start with only ammonia and wait a week or two for the ammonia eating bacteria to grow and start converting the ammonia to nitrite, then wait another week or two for the nitrite eating bacteria to grow. In your case, you were adding both ammonia and nitrite from the start so you likely shaved a couple of weeks off your cycling time frame. Most people do not have such easy access to nitrite. When life deals you lemons... make lemonade! ;-) Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Robb Sent: Wednesday, August 19, 2009 4:57 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Nitrite. I have been dealing with a fishless cycle and thought I was about done. then I find out my TAP water straight from the tap and even setting treated with water conditioner still has a Nitrite reading of .05. I did a water test on every tap in my house and they are all the same. I'm just wondering if anything can be done. With the Tap water (treated) convert over to 0 ever or am I pretty much screwed? Is there anything that will remove nitrite from my water? Even if I installed an RO unit I'd still have to buffer it and I'd get nitrite right? OK I just tested the R/O water it has been sitting in a blue water jug and the reading are Nitrite .25 Ammonia .00 Nitrate .00 PH 6.0 Water Hardness 0.00 So every-time I do a water change I'll be added Nitrite back into the water what can be done if anything?

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 42804	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 8/19/2009
Subject: Re: Nitrite.

When you have the tank fully cycled I wouldn't worry about such a small amount, it should be converted fast enough. When you do your PWC's you might do two of them at about 10% or so twice a week instead, if you're worried it might harm the fish. That way it gives the bacteria time to break it down into Nitrate. But you will have to keep an eye on your nitrates as they could go up pretty high, I would keep a fast growing plant that LOVES nitrates if I were you ;) Amber robbrouse wrote: > > > What about after the cycle and the fish are there? Will that low > amount be OK for the 25% water changes? I have a 55 gallon tank. > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>, Amber Berglund > <arberglund@...> wrote: > > > > yes, eventually nitrite will be turned into Nitrate, so you don't have > > to worry too much about your fishless cycle, eventually it will catch > > up, right now it's probably not used to having so much nitrite to > > convert to nitrate, I'm sure it will adjust itself fairly quickly as > > once the bacteria has started growing it grows rather fast. > > > > Amber > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 42805	From: robbrouse	Date: 8/19/2009
Subject: Re: Nitrite.

So what about after the cycle? Will doing the 25% water changes each week Spike the cycle or should it be OK? --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, Amber Berglund <arberglund@...> wrote: > > yes, eventually nitrite will be turned into Nitrate, so you don't have > to worry too much about your fishless cycle, eventually it will catch > up, right now it's probably not used to having so much nitrite to > convert to nitrate, I'm sure it will adjust itself fairly quickly as > once the bacteria has started growing it grows rather fast. > > Amber > > Robb wrote: > > > > > > I have been dealing with a fishless cycle and thought I was about > > done. then I find out my TAP water straight from the tap and even > > setting treated with water conditioner still has a Nitrite reading of > > .05. I did a water test on every tap in my house and they are all the > > same. > > > > I'm just wondering if anything can be done. With the Tap water > > (treated) convert over to 0 ever or am I pretty much screwed? > > > > Is there anything that will remove nitrite from my water? Even if I > > installed an RO unit I'd still have to buffer it and I'd get nitrite > > right? > > > > OK I just tested the R/O water it has been sitting in a blue water jug > > and the reading are > > > > Nitrite .25 > > Ammonia .00 > > Nitrate .00 > > PH 6.0 > > Water Hardness 0.00 > > > > So every-time I do a water change I'll be added Nitrite back into the > > water what can be done if anything? > > > > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 42806	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 8/19/2009
Subject: Re: Nitrite.

Read my reply that I just sent a moment ago, to your first post. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of robbrouse Sent: Wednesday, August 19, 2009 5:58 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Nitrite. What about after the cycle and the fish are there? Will that low amount be OK for the 25% water changes? I have a 55 gallon tank. --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, Amber Berglund <arberglund@...> wrote: > > yes, eventually nitrite will be turned into Nitrate, so you don't have > to worry too much about your fishless cycle, eventually it will catch > up, right now it's probably not used to having so much nitrite to > convert to nitrate, I'm sure it will adjust itself fairly quickly as > once the bacteria has started growing it grows rather fast. > > Amber

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 42807	From: Julie Roughley	Date: 8/19/2009
Subject: Re: Suicide Fish..Not Suicide Blonde!

Hi, My tank is 60 litres & over two days, I change 33% of the water .. what comes out of the tank goes on the garden.. Where I live in Australia, we only have 26% storage in our dams.. Water temperature changes are room temperature, so about 18 degrees, I let the water sit over night to remove the chlorine (yes in line with dechlorinator instructions).   ________________________________ From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@...> To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Thursday, 20 August, 2009 8:55:20 AM Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: Suicide Fish..Not Suicide Blonde!   There are many cool/cold water fish that will tolerate and thrive in the lower temperatures you are experiencing. See last two paragraphs. Your other option is to add a second heater to your tank since the one you have is not able to keep up with the ambient temperature (room temp). Many folks who keep their homes at a regular temperature of 75F might only need 1-2 Watts per gallon to keep their tank at 78-80F. Other folks might need 3 watts per gallon. In your case, you would probably need 5-6 watts per gallon. In these situations, it's best to have more than one QUALITY heater so that you have redundancy and to have the heaters spread out to provide better and more consistent heating. When you do your weekly PWC's (partial water changes) (VERY GOOD!!!), you must also make sure your incoming water is within a couple of degrees F (or 1 degree C) of the tank's water temperature so you do not shock the fish when doing a PWC. You mentioned a weekly "water change" but it is best to only change out around 25% to 33% of the water each week, or more often if needed. I hope you are not doing 100% water changes or larger than 33%, as in those cases, you have to make sure the incoming water is almost identical in water parameters to the existing tank water. Here's a partial list of some of the common cool/cold water fish, many of which are sold as tropical fish in fish stores... but they are actually cool water fish. http://freshaquariu m.about.com/ od/fishqa/ f/coldwaterfish. htm Here's a list of MORE articles about coldwater fish tanks/ponds. http://www.aquartic les.com/articles /ponds/index. html#Coldwater Last but not least... don't give up and get a cat... a dog maybe... but not a cat. I guess you can tell I'm a dog and fish person. LOL Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com [mailto:AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com] On Behalf Of Julie Roughley Sent: Wednesday, August 19, 2009 4:38 PM To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: Suicide Fish..Not Suicide Blonde! Hi, It's winter in Australia & I live in the southern part, but not Tasmania!  In my kitchen right now, it's 10 degrees I do have a heater, filter, weed etc & change the water weekly. So what kind of fish will tolerate these temperatures & how long does it take for the water kits to reach their expiry date? ____________ _________ _________ __ From: Gail <clandestine662002@ yahoo.com> To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com Sent: Thursday, 20 August, 2009 12:54:01 AM Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Suicide Fish..Not Suicide Blonde!   Definitely invest in a water test kit. My local petstore would test my water, and the people that worked there would just tell me that my water had a lot of alkaline. This was no help. If you find out your Ph, ammonia, etc. The people here, can really help you nail down the source of the problem. Also, did you mention if you had a tank heater? If not, maybe you should invest in one. Isn't it winter in Austrailia? thanks, gail --- In AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com, "Raymond Wetzel" <sevenspringss@ ...> wrote: > > While statements here point to the low temperature that these fish > were being kept at as the cause for their demise, please keep in mind > that for us to assist in problems stemming from water parameter > issues, we need more than "my local pet shop tested the water to be > O.K." While we're apprehensively glad that the reports indicate the > water is "okay," we still don't know what is meant by the LFS as being > okay as that can cover a broad range. If the shop tells a customer > their water is okay, you need to get the numbers so we can know just > where those parameters are registering -- and if the shop has given > all the numbers and the hobbyists see them all as "okay," we need to > know those numbers rather than to be told the water is okay. In this > way, we'll know best how to proceed from there if there is a problem > still being encountered. Ray > > > > --- In AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com, "jules27au" <jules27au@> wrote: > > > > Hi All, > > > > I recently moved, my beloved silver dollar didn't make the trip.. > > > > When I set up the tank again, I let it run for a few days & then added 5 mollies & a sucking catfish, together with some grass the petshop recomended. > > > > All good for about a week & then the mollies commenced suicide.. > > > > Last night I checked on my catfish, he was O.K.. went to change the water & found him either frozen or mouldy.. > > > > My tank is heated at 20 degrees C & my local pet shop tested my water to be O.K.. My tank is 60 litres & looked fab. > > > > I live in Australia where I wake up everymorning to a frost. > > > > Do I give up & get cat? __________________________________________________________________________________ Find local businesses and services in your area with Yahoo!7 Local. Get started: http://local.yahoo.com.au [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 42808	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 8/19/2009
Subject: Re: Suicide Fish..Not Suicide Blonde!

If you are unable to get hold of more heating capacity for your tank, then you should seriously consider returning your current tropical fish to your LFS and exchanging them for cool/cold water fish that I provided links to in an earlier reply. They would be able to tolerate your room temperatures or at least with the limited heating capacity that you now have. Even with cool/cold water fish, when doing PWC's, you should warm the water, that you have sitting out to outgas any chlorine, to the same temperature as the tank. Are you sure your water utility only uses chlorine? Many municipalities use chloramine nowadays and chloramine will not outgas in 24-48 hours like chlorine does. It would take a week or more of letting the water stand to break down the chloramine. It's good that you are using your removed tank water for your plants. Fish tank water is VERY GOOD for use on plants... especially all the fish poop and detritus that you siphon out of the gravel. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Julie Roughley Sent: Wednesday, August 19, 2009 8:56 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: Suicide Fish..Not Suicide Blonde! Hi, My tank is 60 litres & over two days, I change 33% of the water .. what comes out of the tank goes on the garden.. Where I live in Australia, we only have 26% storage in our dams.. Water temperature changes are room temperature, so about 18 degrees, I let the water sit over night to remove the chlorine (yes in line with dechlorinator instructions).   ________________________________ From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@...> To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Thursday, 20 August, 2009 8:55:20 AM Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: Suicide Fish..Not Suicide Blonde!   There are many cool/cold water fish that will tolerate and thrive in the lower temperatures you are experiencing. See last two paragraphs. Your other option is to add a second heater to your tank since the one you have is not able to keep up with the ambient temperature (room temp). Many folks who keep their homes at a regular temperature of 75F might only need 1-2 Watts per gallon to keep their tank at 78-80F. Other folks might need 3 watts per gallon. In your case, you would probably need 5-6 watts per gallon. In these situations, it's best to have more than one QUALITY heater so that you have redundancy and to have the heaters spread out to provide better and more consistent heating. When you do your weekly PWC's (partial water changes) (VERY GOOD!!!), you must also make sure your incoming water is within a couple of degrees F (or 1 degree C) of the tank's water temperature so you do not shock the fish when doing a PWC. You mentioned a weekly "water change" but it is best to only change out around 25% to 33% of the water each week, or more often if needed. I hope you are not doing 100% water changes or larger than 33%, as in those cases, you have to make sure the incoming water is almost identical in water parameters to the existing tank water. Here's a partial list of some of the common cool/cold water fish, many of which are sold as tropical fish in fish stores... but they are actually cool water fish. http://freshaquariu m.about.com/ od/fishqa/ f/coldwaterfish. htm Here's a list of MORE articles about coldwater fish tanks/ponds. http://www.aquartic les.com/articles /ponds/index. html#Coldwater Last but not least... don't give up and get a cat... a dog maybe... but not a cat. I guess you can tell I'm a dog and fish person. LOL Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com [mailto:AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com] On Behalf Of Julie Roughley Sent: Wednesday, August 19, 2009 4:38 PM To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: Suicide Fish..Not Suicide Blonde! Hi, It's winter in Australia & I live in the southern part, but not Tasmania! In my kitchen right now, it's 10 degrees I do have a heater, filter, weed etc & change the water weekly. So what kind of fish will tolerate these temperatures & how long does it take for the water kits to reach their expiry date? ____________ _________ _________ __ From: Gail <clandestine662002@ yahoo.com> To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com Sent: Thursday, 20 August, 2009 12:54:01 AM Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Suicide Fish..Not Suicide Blonde!   Definitely invest in a water test kit. My local petstore would test my water, and the people that worked there would just tell me that my water had a lot of alkaline. This was no help. If you find out your Ph, ammonia, etc. The people here, can really help you nail down the source of the problem. Also, did you mention if you had a tank heater? If not, maybe you should invest in one. Isn't it winter in Austrailia? thanks, gail --- In AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com, "Raymond Wetzel" <sevenspringss@ ...> wrote: > > While statements here point to the low temperature that these fish > were being kept at as the cause for their demise, please keep in mind > that for us to assist in problems stemming from water parameter > issues, we need more than "my local pet shop tested the water to be > O.K." While we're apprehensively glad that the reports indicate the > water is "okay," we still don't know what is meant by the LFS as being > okay as that can cover a broad range. If the shop tells a customer > their water is okay, you need to get the numbers so we can know just > where those parameters are registering -- and if the shop has given > all the numbers and the hobbyists see them all as "okay," we need to > know those numbers rather than to be told the water is okay. In this > way, we'll know best how to proceed from there if there is a problem > still being encountered. Ray > > > > --- In AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com, "jules27au" <jules27au@> wrote: > > > > Hi All, > > > > I recently moved, my beloved silver dollar didn't make the trip.. > > > > When I set up the tank again, I let it run for a few days & then > > added 5 mollies & a sucking catfish, together with some grass the petshop recomended. > > > > All good for about a week & then the mollies commenced suicide.. > > > > Last night I checked on my catfish, he was O.K.. went to change the water & found him either frozen or mouldy.. > > > > My tank is heated at 20 degrees C & my local pet shop tested my > > water to be O.K.. My tank is 60 litres & looked fab. > > > > I live in Australia where I wake up everymorning to a frost. > > > > Do I give up & get cat? ____________________________________________________________________________ ______ Find local businesses and services in your area with Yahoo!7 Local. Get started: http://local.yahoo.com.au [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] ------------------------------------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the home page. 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Group: AquaticLife	Message: 42809	From: piercedarrow_107	Date: 8/20/2009
Subject: elos

hi everyone fyi if any one ever gets a elos kit that has no english instructions send elos an email and the will email you the correct instructions to for your test kit or kits info@... note these kits are more accutate then the cheep kits so accuacy is important to you then use elos or salvert as i tried api and red sea and almost did a total crash when the kits were telling me that the tank was ok when it was not.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 42810	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 8/20/2009
Subject: Re: elos

What kind of tests were you having trouble with the API kit? I've been using API's Master Test kits for years with no problems and the test results are consistent with the numbers I get from other test kits. I just did a Google on "elos" since I was not familiar with their kits and I see they are mainly, if not only, for Saltwater aquariums, which would explain why I am not familiar with them. Those test kits aren't cheap either. $17.00 to $30.00 per individual test kit.... they better be good! http://www.aquariasupply.com/Elos-Test-Kits-s/336.htm http://www.marinedepot.com/ps_searchItem.aspx?IdCategory=FITK&vendorname=Elo s_USA&vendorcode=EO But for a SW tank, I probably would buy a better kit than the API and Tetratest-Laborette kits that I recommend for FW tanks, since SW fish are more demanding of water quality and parameters. You could have probably gotten a Master Test Kit from Kordon as their Accu-Tru test kits come highly recommended by \\Steve// and others out here on this group but their Master Test Kit is much more expensive than the API kit... BUT a LOT LESS expensive than the Elos kits. Here's a snip from my blog article, "Everybody Needs A Decent Master Test Kit"... (START SNIP) Kordon AquaTru Test Kits (highly recommended by \\Steve//) and I've read over the information at http://www.novalek.com/kordon/aquatru/overview.htm and I can see why \\Steve// speaks highly of this kit. It's a much higher price than many of the above mentioned test kits but since accuracy is something we strive for, it's certainly something to be considered. PRODUCT DESCRIPTION: Kordon AquaTru Water Quality Test Kits pioneered the use of dry reagents for use in aquarium and pond water testing using colorimetric water test kits. The major advantage of dry reagents is in their accuracy and shelf life. AquaTru Dry reagents for water testing are more stable than colorimetric tests done with test strips or liquid reagents. This means that the aquarist and pond keeper can perform tests using Kordon AquaTru water tests with the confidence of knowing the results will be as accurate as is possible for a "colorimetric" type test. Also, Kordon dates their reagents with their expiration dates. All manufacturer's reagents, whether dry or liquid, are subject to degradation. Because the reagent chemicals break down over time, it is important to know when the reagents are going to go out of date. Therefore, it is not recommended to use reagents that are not dated to show when they are out of date. AquaTru's color comparator system has been carefully designed to reflect the needs of the concerned aquarist and pond keeper. The top is flared to make adding reagents easier,. The wide base increases stability. A special sliding window helps make color comparisons more accurate. The color strip consists of translucent colors applied to a durable plastic, rather than a printed paper card. The translucent color strip allows light to pass through, providing a much more accurate match when comparing the cube's colors to those produced by the reagents. Reflected colors, such as those produced on a printed comparator do not match as well when compared with the translucent colors in a test cube. The quality of tap water varies widely and aquarium and pond systems. It is increasingly important to monitor water conditions carefully in the aquarium and pond. It is equally important to select only top quality, reliable test equipment to monitor these conditions. It is beyond the scope of most aquarists and pond keepers to analyze the accuracy of a test kit. They must depend upon the manufacturer to provide them with accurate, dependable test kits. Kordon has provided professional quality accurate water quality test kits in its AquaTru products for over 30 year, which are of the same grade as provided to scientific laboratories, government agencies, academia, and to commercial aquaculture. (END SNIP) The best price I could find on the Freshwater Master Test Kit was from an eBay store for around $60.00 plus 6.99 shipping. http://cgi.ebay.com/Kordon-Fresh-Water-Master-Aquarium-Test-Kit-35810_W0QQit emZ130125159778QQcmdZViewItem and here is the seller's online store site if the above link fails... http://stores.ebay.com/By-Rite-Pet-Supply but \\Steve// provided this link where this kit is on sale for $48.00 right now (10/17/08) http://www.fish.com/itemdy00.asp?T1=790088+002 but it's regular price is $78.00 plus shipping when the sale ends. (END SNIP) Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of piercedarrow_107 Sent: Thursday, August 20, 2009 2:57 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] elos hi everyone fyi if any one ever gets a elos kit that has no english instructions send elos an email and the will email you the correct instructions to for your test kit or kits info@... note these kits are more accutate then the cheep kits so accuacy is important to you then use elos or salvert as i tried api and red sea and almost did a total crash when the kits were telling me that the tank was ok when it was not.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 42811	From: bruce cohen	Date: 8/20/2009
Subject: Re: elos

elos and salfert do not make Master test kits  only the cheep ones do and as for them only being for fresh water they are used for both salt and fresh water but the price is $$$ so you should expect accuracy --- On Thu, 8/20/09, Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@...> wrote: From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@...> Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] elos To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Date: Thursday, August 20, 2009, 2:02 PM   What kind of tests were you having trouble with the API kit? I've been using API's Master Test kits for years with no problems and the test results are consistent with the numbers I get from other test kits. I just did a Google on "elos" since I was not familiar with their kits and I see they are mainly, if not only, for Saltwater aquariums, which would explain why I am not familiar with them. Those test kits aren't cheap either. $17.00 to $30.00 per individual test kit.... they better be good! http://www.aquarias upply.com/ Elos-Test- Kits-s/336. htm http://www.marinede pot.com/ps_ searchItem. aspx?IdCategory= FITK&vendorname= Elo s_USA&vendorcode= EO But for a SW tank, I probably would buy a better kit than the API and Tetratest-Laborette kits that I recommend for FW tanks, since SW fish are more demanding of water quality and parameters. You could have probably gotten a Master Test Kit from Kordon as their Accu-Tru test kits come highly recommended by \\Steve// and others out here on this group but their Master Test Kit is much more expensive than the API kit... BUT a LOT LESS expensive than the Elos kits. Here's a snip from my blog article, "Everybody Needs A Decent Master Test Kit"... (START SNIP) Kordon AquaTru Test Kits (highly recommended by \\Steve//) and I've read over the information at http://www.novalek. com/kordon/ aquatru/overview .htm and I can see why \\Steve// speaks highly of this kit. It's a much higher price than many of the above mentioned test kits but since accuracy is something we strive for, it's certainly something to be considered. PRODUCT DESCRIPTION: Kordon AquaTru Water Quality Test Kits pioneered the use of dry reagents for use in aquarium and pond water testing using colorimetric water test kits. The major advantage of dry reagents is in their accuracy and shelf life. AquaTru Dry reagents for water testing are more stable than colorimetric tests done with test strips or liquid reagents. This means that the aquarist and pond keeper can perform tests using Kordon AquaTru water tests with the confidence of knowing the results will be as accurate as is possible for a "colorimetric" type test. Also, Kordon dates their reagents with their expiration dates. All manufacturer' s reagents, whether dry or liquid, are subject to degradation. Because the reagent chemicals break down over time, it is important to know when the reagents are going to go out of date. Therefore, it is not recommended to use reagents that are not dated to show when they are out of date. AquaTru's color comparator system has been carefully designed to reflect the needs of the concerned aquarist and pond keeper. The top is flared to make adding reagents easier,. The wide base increases stability. A special sliding window helps make color comparisons more accurate. The color strip consists of translucent colors applied to a durable plastic, rather than a printed paper card. The translucent color strip allows light to pass through, providing a much more accurate match when comparing the cube's colors to those produced by the reagents. Reflected colors, such as those produced on a printed comparator do not match as well when compared with the translucent colors in a test cube. The quality of tap water varies widely and aquarium and pond systems. It is increasingly important to monitor water conditions carefully in the aquarium and pond. It is equally important to select only top quality, reliable test equipment to monitor these conditions. It is beyond the scope of most aquarists and pond keepers to analyze the accuracy of a test kit. They must depend upon the manufacturer to provide them with accurate, dependable test kits. Kordon has provided professional quality accurate water quality test kits in its AquaTru products for over 30 year, which are of the same grade as provided to scientific laboratories, government agencies, academia, and to commercial aquaculture. (END SNIP) The best price I could find on the Freshwater Master Test Kit was from an eBay store for around $60.00 plus 6.99 shipping. http://cgi.ebay. com/Kordon- Fresh-Water- Master-Aquarium- Test-Kit- 35810_W0QQit emZ130125159778QQcm dZViewItem and here is the seller's online store site if the above link fails... http://stores. ebay.com/ By-Rite-Pet- Supply but \\Steve// provided this link where this kit is on sale for $48.00 right now (10/17/08) http://www.fish. com/itemdy00. asp?T1=790088+ 002 but it's regular price is $78.00 plus shipping when the sale ends. (END SNIP) Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com [mailto:AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com] On Behalf Of piercedarrow_ 107 Sent: Thursday, August 20, 2009 2:57 PM To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com Subject: [AquaticLife] elos hi everyone fyi if any one ever gets a elos kit that has no english instructions send elos an email and the will email you the correct instructions to for your test kit or kits info@elosusa. com note these kits are more accutate then the cheep kits so accuacy is important to you then use elos or salvert as i tried api and red sea and almost did a total crash when the kits were telling me that the tank was ok when it was not. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 42812	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 8/20/2009
Subject: Observatory - Deep Sea Worms Release Glow-Bombs When Disturbed - NYT

http://www.nytimes.com/2009/08/25/science/25obbomb.html?_r=1 http://tinyurl.com/lho2yz Site may require registration. \\Steve//

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 42813	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 8/21/2009
Subject: 7 Most Amazing Aquariums Around The World

http://www.unp.co.in/f143/7-most-amazing-aquariums-around-the-world-5469 4/ \\Steve//

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 42814	From: clandestine662002	Date: 8/21/2009
Subject: Jellybean Parrots

Is there anyone in the group that currently has Jellybean Parrots, or Blood parrots. And has anyone noticed the significant differences between the BP and the Jellybeans? My Jellybean doesn't have the typical beak of the BP, and from some of the sites I have seen, this is because its bred with a type of Pink Convict. Do you guys have any knowledge to add? thanks! gail

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 42815	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 8/21/2009
Subject: Re: Jellybean Parrots

I thought the Jellybean cichlids were the dyed or tattooed ones? You can do a Google of 'jellybean parrot cichlid' to find many sites about them. The reason that some have beaks and others do not is that they are not a particular breed of cichlid but rather crossbred cichlids to try and get as many albino or light colored fish that can be dyed or tattooed. Apparently, because Convict Cichlids are such prolific breeders, these are being used in the hybridization to get more babies... at least that's my take on things that I've read over the years. Here's a site that came up in the top of my Google search. http://www.kingdom-gospel.com/fish.html And then there is this site which is vehemently opposed to dying or tattooing fish. http://www.deathbydyeing.org/ Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of clandestine662002 Sent: Friday, August 21, 2009 12:11 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Jellybean Parrots Is there anyone in the group that currently has Jellybean Parrots, or Blood parrots. And has anyone noticed the significant differences between the BP and the Jellybeans? My Jellybean doesn't have the typical beak of the BP, and from some of the sites I have seen, this is because its bred with a type of Pink Convict. Do you guys have any knowledge to add? thanks! gail

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 42816	From: biG poppa	Date: 8/21/2009
Subject: Re: Jellybean Parrots

Gail i have a feamle myself shes the most intelengt fish i have...what a personality..do you have a male or female? --- On Fri, 8/21/09, clandestine662002 <clandestine662002@...> wrote: From: clandestine662002 <clandestine662002@...> Subject: [AquaticLife] Jellybean Parrots To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Date: Friday, August 21, 2009, 1:10 PM   Is there anyone in the group that currently has Jellybean Parrots, or Blood parrots. And has anyone noticed the significant differences between the BP and the Jellybeans? My Jellybean doesn't have the typical beak of the BP, and from some of the sites I have seen, this is because its bred with a type of Pink Convict. Do you guys have any knowledge to add? thanks! gail [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 42817	From: robbrouse	Date: 8/21/2009
Subject: Re: Nitrite.

Very good to know. OK heres the reading as of toady. Ammonia 0 Nitrite 0 Nitrate 10 Ph 7.4 hardness 220 I did a 10 gallon water change to to see what the Nitrite's would do. Right after the water change there were very slightly there 15 minutes later there were back at 0. My next question is. I have to work all weekend so it will be a week from Saturday (the 29th) before I can get fish. This is my thinking tell me if you think it's a workable plan. Keep dosing the tank with ammonia one or twice a day. Next Thursday / Friday do the larger water change and test all water levels again. The heater has been dropped from 80 to 74 (can adjust that as needed) and Saturday go to the LFS and bring them home? Is there anything I have missed? Anything else that should or should not be done? Thanks for all the help you have been a life saver and helped me learn a great deal the blog is outstanding. Robb --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@...> wrote: > > That low level of nitrite is not a problem. There's nothing to worry about. > > It's the same level as many folks test for ammonia in their tap water. I > get a 0.5ppm ammonia reading due to my local utility using chloramine > (chlorine and ammonia agent) to disinfect our water. > > When doing a 25% PWC, this would mean a temporary increase of only 0.125ppm > of nitrite (or in my case, ammonia) being added to the tank but since the > filters are running while the new water is being added, the nitrite (or in > my case ammonia) is immediately converted through the nitrogen cycle. > > Remember that the fish are constantly putting out ammonia, which is then > converted to nitrite and then nitrate by the nitrifying bacteria colonies > you are growing in your tank with your fishless cycling. > > If anything, this might be why your fishless cycling is happening faster > than others who start from scratch. Most people have to start with only > ammonia and wait a week or two for the ammonia eating bacteria to grow and > start converting the ammonia to nitrite, then wait another week or two for > the nitrite eating bacteria to grow. In your case, you were adding both > ammonia and nitrite from the start so you likely shaved a couple of weeks > off your cycling time frame. Most people do not have such easy access to > nitrite. > > When life deals you lemons... make lemonade! ;-) > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right > side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month)

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 42818	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 8/21/2009
Subject: Re: Nitrite.

Just does the tank daily with 4-5ppm of ammonia. Test it 12 hours later. If the numbers are 0.0 for ammonia and nitrite, then your tank is fully cycled. Dosing twice daily at that point might be a good thing to keep it fully cycled so that the lack of ammonia/nitrite for that 12 hour period could cause some of the bacteria to start dying off. When you bring home your fish, do a 90% PWC, then slowly acclimate the fish to the tanks water parameters. Did you ever decide on what kind of fish you were going to get? Were you going to stick to your original plan of using 50% RO water or go with fish that like your naturally hard and higher pH tap water? I'd go with the natural water parameters so that I could continue to use my Python Water Changer hooked right to my tap water faucet when doing my PWC's. I NEVER want to go back to using buckets ever again... although I still keep them around in case of roof leaks from a hurricane. LOL Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of robbrouse Sent: Friday, August 21, 2009 1:08 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Nitrite. Very good to know. OK heres the reading as of toady. Ammonia 0 Nitrite 0 Nitrate 10 Ph 7.4 hardness 220 I did a 10 gallon water change to to see what the Nitrite's would do. Right after the water change there were very slightly there 15 minutes later there were back at 0. My next question is. I have to work all weekend so it will be a week from Saturday (the 29th) before I can get fish. This is my thinking tell me if you think it's a workable plan. Keep dosing the tank with ammonia one or twice a day. Next Thursday / Friday do the larger water change and test all water levels again. The heater has been dropped from 80 to 74 (can adjust that as needed) and Saturday go to the LFS and bring them home? Is there anything I have missed? Anything else that should or should not be done? Thanks for all the help you have been a life saver and helped me learn a great deal the blog is outstanding. Robb --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@...> wrote: > > That low level of nitrite is not a problem. There's nothing to worry about. > > It's the same level as many folks test for ammonia in their tap water. > I get a 0.5ppm ammonia reading due to my local utility using > chloramine (chlorine and ammonia agent) to disinfect our water. > > When doing a 25% PWC, this would mean a temporary increase of only > 0.125ppm of nitrite (or in my case, ammonia) being added to the tank > but since the filters are running while the new water is being added, > the nitrite (or in my case ammonia) is immediately converted through the nitrogen cycle. > > Remember that the fish are constantly putting out ammonia, which is > then converted to nitrite and then nitrate by the nitrifying bacteria > colonies you are growing in your tank with your fishless cycling. > > If anything, this might be why your fishless cycling is happening > faster than others who start from scratch. Most people have to start > with only ammonia and wait a week or two for the ammonia eating > bacteria to grow and start converting the ammonia to nitrite, then > wait another week or two for the nitrite eating bacteria to grow. In > your case, you were adding both ammonia and nitrite from the start so > you likely shaved a couple of weeks off your cycling time frame. Most > people do not have such easy access to nitrite. > > When life deals you lemons... make lemonade! ;-) > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles > referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically > under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month)

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 42820	From: clandestine662002	Date: 8/21/2009
Subject: Re: Jellybean Parrots

Mine, I am certain is a Male. He is pink, and the funny part is that my 5yr old named him "Daisy". But at the time, we had no idea the sex of the fish. Since we have had him, his fins have gotten longer and he has grown a hump on his forehead. He's way cute. In fact he has been so aggressive, that I have put him in with my African Cichlids. And to answer Lenny, my Jellybean doesnt' look tattooed or injected. He just looks like an Albino, type fish with a hint of pink. And I do not like obviously dyed fish. I am okay with hybrids, tho. Can you imagine the guy who's job is to dye or inject fish? I cannot quite fathom it! -gail --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, biG poppa <greychildren@...> wrote: > > Gail i have a feamle myself shes the most intelengt fish i have...what a personality..do you have a male or female? > > --- On Fri, 8/21/09, clandestine662002 <clandestine662002@...> wrote: > > > From: clandestine662002 <clandestine662002@...> > Subject: [AquaticLife] Jellybean Parrots > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Date: Friday, August 21, 2009, 1:10 PM > > >   > > > > Is there anyone in the group that currently has Jellybean Parrots, or Blood parrots. > > And has anyone noticed the significant differences between the BP and the Jellybeans? My Jellybean doesn't have the typical beak of the BP, and from some of the sites I have seen, this is because its bred with a type of Pink Convict. > Do you guys have any knowledge to add? > > thanks! > gail > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 42821	From: robbrouse	Date: 8/21/2009
Subject: Re: Nitrite.

My GH is 11 and KH is 4 (had a friend bring over his test kit) I'm thinking of 4 Grouami's 1 male and 3 females) 4 to 6 Cordores Cat fish I like Black Neons Tetra's but from what I was reading not really a good match with the other fish. I was also thinking about maybe 4 or 5 Green or Tiger Barbs. Would this be a good match in my tap water. Ammonia 0 Nitrite 0 Nitrate 10 Ph 7.4 GH 11 KH 4 I can drop the hardness to 7 doing a 2 Tap 1 RO mixture, but with cold weather around the corner I can just see the hassle of getting water from the store. My wife wants angel Fish they site you talked about talks about much softer water have you heard of angel fish living in harder water? --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@...> wrote: > > Just does the tank daily with 4-5ppm of ammonia. Test it 12 hours later. > If the numbers are 0.0 for ammonia and nitrite, then your tank is fully > cycled. Dosing twice daily at that point might be a good thing to keep it > fully cycled so that the lack of ammonia/nitrite for that 12 hour period > could cause some of the bacteria to start dying off. > > When you bring home your fish, do a 90% PWC, then slowly acclimate the fish > to the tanks water parameters. > > Did you ever decide on what kind of fish you were going to get? > > Were you going to stick to your original plan of using 50% RO water or go > with fish that like your naturally hard and higher pH tap water? I'd go > with the natural water parameters so that I could continue to use my Python > Water Changer hooked right to my tap water faucet when doing my PWC's. I > NEVER want to go back to using buckets ever again... although I still keep > them around in case of roof leaks from a hurricane. LOL > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right > side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) > > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On > Behalf Of robbrouse > Sent: Friday, August 21, 2009 1:08 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Nitrite. > > Very good to know. OK heres the reading as of toady. > > Ammonia 0 > Nitrite 0 > Nitrate 10 > Ph 7.4 > hardness 220

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 42822	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 8/21/2009
Subject: Re: Jellybean Parrots

I'm not sure you should refer to him as a Jellybean then... since Jellybean refers to the multiple colors of these fish after the dying/tattooing process. You should probably refer to him as a Albino Parrot Hybrid or something. Look around in the forums and websites for whatever they are calling these non-dyed/tattooed fish. Of course, stay away from the Cichlid forums where man-made hybridization is not looked highly upon in the hobby. I realize that hybridization takes place in nature and probably, many of the "pure species" we have today are actually hybrids from mating that took place in nature hundreds or thousands of years ago and then took off in a particular area until the "hybrids" were the main species and then when man came along, that was the only fish found so man named them a particular species. For this to happen, it means it was usually part of God's plan. As you noted many of man-made hybrids end up sterile which kind of supports the old Parkay slogan, "It's not nice to fool (with) Mother Nature!" Although I currently own a couple of fancy goldfish in one of my tanks (65G), I think many breeders have gone WAY OVERBOARD with the deformities they are in-breeding into fancy goldfish as well. I will never buy intentionally deformed fish, ever again. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of clandestine662002 Sent: Friday, August 21, 2009 2:04 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Jellybean Parrots Mine, I am certain is a Male. He is pink, and the funny part is that my 5yr old named him "Daisy". But at the time, we had no idea the sex of the fish. Since we have had him, his fins have gotten longer and he has grown a hump on his forehead. He's way cute. In fact he has been so aggressive, that I have put him in with my African Cichlids. And to answer Lenny, my Jellybean doesnt' look tattooed or injected. He just looks like an Albino, type fish with a hint of pink. And I do not like obviously dyed fish. I am okay with hybrids, tho. Can you imagine the guy who's job is to dye or inject fish? I cannot quite fathom it! -gail --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, biG poppa <greychildren@...> wrote: > > Gail i have a feamle myself shes the most intelengt fish i have...what a personality..do you have a male or female? > > --- On Fri, 8/21/09, clandestine662002 <clandestine662002@...> wrote: > > > From: clandestine662002 <clandestine662002@...> > Subject: [AquaticLife] Jellybean Parrots > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Date: Friday, August 21, 2009, 1:10 PM > > >   > > > > Is there anyone in the group that currently has Jellybean Parrots, or Blood parrots. > > And has anyone noticed the significant differences between the BP and the Jellybeans? My Jellybean doesn't have the typical beak of the BP, and from some of the sites I have seen, this is because its bred with a type of Pink Convict. > Do you guys have any knowledge to add? > > thanks! > gail

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 42823	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 8/21/2009
Subject: Re: Nitrite.

OK. Have you done a tap water baseline test yet... or just your tank water testing? If you haven't, please do the 48 hour tap water baseline... of just your tap water with your dechlor added so we can know what your tap water is going to be like. I know you've mentioned adding RO water to the tank... or maybe not... so I'm just not sure of which numbers are your "real" 48 hour tap water baseline numbers.. or if you've done this yet. The numbers you mention below show 0.0ppm for nitrite and I know you mentioned that your tap water has 0.5ppm of nitrite so I'm guessing these are your tank readings.. which are good to know, but when fishless cycling a tank, the numbers are not going to be the same as your tap water baseline or once you add fish, plants, etc., to the tank. If you were to test the pH right after adding your 4-5ppm of ammonia, your pH would likely be much higher since the added ammonia is going to change the pH. It's good to see these numbers but I thought you mentioned your pH being much higher than 7.4 originally. If your baseline pH is 7.4, then you will be fine with a VERY LARGE variety of fish. Most fish easily tolerate 6.8 to 7.4 pH levels. It's when your baseline is a lot lower or higher that you have to start being more picky about your fish that you keep. Let us know your tap water baseline numbers and I'm glad you are leaning away from the added RO water. It seems like a good idea at first but like you said, it can end up being a major detraction at some point in the future and you may end up putting off tank maintenance if you aren't able to get to the store for RO water and that's not a good thing either. You mentioned Angelfish but in all this talk, I forget what size tank you have. Angelfish grow to be BIG fish (over 6" long and over 6" tall so they have the body mass of a much larger standard shaped fish.. probably comparable to a 12"+ long standard shaped fish) so you would need a decent sized tank to keep Angelfish and other fish. Here is the Mongabay profile on Angelfish. http://fish.mongabay.com/angelfish.htm You'll have to scroll down to the middle for the profile on P. scalare since that is the species closest to what you'll find commonly in stores today. The P. altum species grows much larger. You'll see under "Water"... WATER: pH 5-7.5 (6.5), 1-20 dH (5), 75-82°F (24-28°C) So.. Angelfish live naturally in water between pH 5-7.5 with the most common being in 6.5. They live naturally in water with a hardness of 1-20 dH with the most common being 5. Of course, man-bred Angelfish are being bred and raised in water parameters that might be way outside their natural waters so they may do fine in your tap water baseline. Further, if you go with a planted tank, as the ecology takes over, your GH and KH will be lower in your tank than your tap as all of the life forms (fish, plants, inverts, microbiological's, etc.) will use up the elements that make up your GH and KH as part of sustaining their existence. Given all of this, there's no reason you cannot try one or more Angelfish, although a single Angelfish would give you more room for other fish and you wouldn't have to worry about getting a pair or two males that might cause havoc and chaos in your tank. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of robbrouse Sent: Friday, August 21, 2009 3:21 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Nitrite. My GH is 11 and KH is 4 (had a friend bring over his test kit) I'm thinking of 4 Grouami's 1 male and 3 females) 4 to 6 Cordores Cat fish I like Black Neons Tetra's but from what I was reading not really a good match with the other fish. I was also thinking about maybe 4 or 5 Green or Tiger Barbs. Would this be a good match in my tap water. Ammonia 0 Nitrite 0 Nitrate 10 Ph 7.4 GH 11 KH 4 I can drop the hardness to 7 doing a 2 Tap 1 RO mixture, but with cold weather around the corner I can just see the hassle of getting water from the store. My wife wants angel Fish they site you talked about talks about much softer water have you heard of angel fish living in harder water? --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@...> wrote: > > Just does the tank daily with 4-5ppm of ammonia. Test it 12 hours later. > If the numbers are 0.0 for ammonia and nitrite, then your tank is > fully cycled. Dosing twice daily at that point might be a good thing > to keep it fully cycled so that the lack of ammonia/nitrite for that > 12 hour period could cause some of the bacteria to start dying off. > > When you bring home your fish, do a 90% PWC, then slowly acclimate the > fish to the tanks water parameters. > > Did you ever decide on what kind of fish you were going to get? > > Were you going to stick to your original plan of using 50% RO water or > go with fish that like your naturally hard and higher pH tap water? > I'd go with the natural water parameters so that I could continue to > use my Python Water Changer hooked right to my tap water faucet when > doing my PWC's. I NEVER want to go back to using buckets ever > again... although I still keep them around in case of roof leaks from > a hurricane. LOL > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles > referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically > under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) > > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] > On Behalf Of robbrouse > Sent: Friday, August 21, 2009 1:08 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Nitrite. > > Very good to know. OK heres the reading as of toady. > > Ammonia 0 > Nitrite 0 > Nitrate 10 > Ph 7.4 > hardness 220

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 42824	From: biG poppa	Date: 8/21/2009
Subject: Re: Jellybean Parrots

I have a female...that sits there and stares at you and follows you around the house as you walk kind of creepy sometimes but shes fun also very agressive.. she lays egg every other month --- On Fri, 8/21/09, clandestine662002 <clandestine662002@...> wrote: From: clandestine662002 <clandestine662002@...> Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Jellybean Parrots To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Date: Friday, August 21, 2009, 3:03 PM   Mine, I am certain is a Male. He is pink, and the funny part is that my 5yr old named him "Daisy". But at the time, we had no idea the sex of the fish. Since we have had him, his fins have gotten longer and he has grown a hump on his forehead. He's way cute. In fact he has been so aggressive, that I have put him in with my African Cichlids. And to answer Lenny, my Jellybean doesnt' look tattooed or injected. He just looks like an Albino, type fish with a hint of pink. And I do not like obviously dyed fish. I am okay with hybrids, tho. Can you imagine the guy who's job is to dye or inject fish? I cannot quite fathom it! -gail --- In AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com, biG poppa <greychildren@ ...> wrote: > > Gail i have a feamle myself shes the most intelengt fish i have...what a personality. .do you have a male or female? > > --- On Fri, 8/21/09, clandestine662002 <clandestine662002@ ...> wrote: > > > From: clandestine662002 <clandestine662002@ ...> > Subject: [AquaticLife] Jellybean Parrots > To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com > Date: Friday, August 21, 2009, 1:10 PM > > >   > > > > Is there anyone in the group that currently has Jellybean Parrots, or Blood parrots. > > And has anyone noticed the significant differences between the BP and the Jellybeans? My Jellybean doesn't have the typical beak of the BP, and from some of the sites I have seen, this is because its bred with a type of Pink Convict. > Do you guys have any knowledge to add? > > thanks! > gail > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 42825	From: clandestine662002	Date: 8/21/2009
Subject: Re: Jellybean Parrots

My guess would be that the aggression, and non-parrot like mouth stems from the cross breeding with Convicts. They are also known for breeding often. Lenny posted a link, that I had looked at in regards to the Jellybeans. I thought it was helpful. After owning a regular, BP I was kind of disappointed that the Jellybean wasn't more similar. But I get what you mean about personality, ours is full of it. But not quite the decorator like my regular BP. --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, biG poppa <greychildren@...> wrote: > > I have a female...that sits there and stares at you and follows you around the house as you walk kind of creepy sometimes but shes fun also very agressive.. she lays egg every other month

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 42826	From: robbrouse	Date: 8/21/2009
Subject: Re: Nitrite.

TAP WATER BASE LINE TAP dechlor 24 Hours 48 Hours Ammonia 0 0 0 0 Nitrite .5 .5 .5 pH 7.8 7.5 7.5 (between 7.4 & 7.6) Hardness 220 220 220 Nitrate 0 0 0 Temp 66 Room Temp room Temp I do not have the KH and Gh test kits Order should be here next week. I did some test on 50/50 RO and TAP mixed and what changed was/ 48 Hours + Sitting (bought the water last Saturday) Ammonia 0 Nitrate .5 pH 7.4 Nitrate 0 Hardness 110 I have a 55 gallon barrel and 5 7 gallon containers that sit out with the water being treated and never comes straight from the tap. Side note I found if you treat your tap water with conditioner it very drinkable (even after several months) so I have always keep a larger number of gallons on hand for this to be Dione with. I have been talking with my wife and if we can avoid the RO water this would be best we have to lug the 5 jugs down 2 flights of stairs in order to get it to the tank. I just want to make the right choice in fish. About 3 years ago I did keep Black Neons in a 10 gallon tank with just tap water and they lived about 3 years until we went on vacation and I'm really not sure what happen but 5 of the 7 died. The 55 gallon has always giving me problems. I replace the filter with a better canister filter and still have the bio wheel on the back. The tank broke so it's new and I spent a great deal of time washing the ricks to make sure nothing was in there. Anyhow more info with my tap water base line. I do not have an issue using RO if needed. I have really missed fish keeping and want to do it right this go round. Robb --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@...> wrote: > > OK. Have you done a tap water baseline test yet... or just your tank water > testing? If you haven't, please do the 48 hour tap water baseline... of > just your tap water with your dechlor added so we can know what your tap > water is going to be like. > > I know you've mentioned adding RO water to the tank... or maybe not... so > I'm just not sure of which numbers are your "real" 48 hour tap water > baseline numbers.. or if you've done this yet. > > The numbers you mention below show 0.0ppm for nitrite and I know you > mentioned that your tap water has 0.5ppm of nitrite so I'm guessing these > are your tank readings.. which are good to know, but when fishless cycling a > tank, the numbers are not going to be the same as your tap water baseline or > once you add fish, plants, etc., to the tank. If you were to test the pH > right after adding your 4-5ppm of ammonia, your pH would likely be much > higher since the added ammonia is going to change the pH. > > It's good to see these numbers but I thought you mentioned your pH being > much higher than 7.4 originally. If your baseline pH is 7.4, then you will > be fine with a VERY LARGE variety of fish. Most fish easily tolerate 6.8 to > 7.4 pH levels. It's when your baseline is a lot lower or higher that you > have to start being more picky about your fish that you keep. > > Let us know your tap water baseline numbers and I'm glad you are leaning > away from the added RO water. It seems like a good idea at first but like > you said, it can end up being a major detraction at some point in the future > and you may end up putting off tank maintenance if you aren't able to get to > the store for RO water and that's not a good thing either. > > You mentioned Angelfish but in all this talk, I forget what size tank you > have. Angelfish grow to be BIG fish (over 6" long and over 6" tall so they > have the body mass of a much larger standard shaped fish.. probably > comparable to a 12"+ long standard shaped fish) so you would need a decent > sized tank to keep Angelfish and other fish. Here is the Mongabay profile > on Angelfish. http://fish.mongabay.com/angelfish.htm You'll have to scroll > down to the middle for the profile on P. scalare since that is the species > closest to what you'll find commonly in stores today. The P. altum species > grows much larger. You'll see under "Water"... > > WATER: pH 5-7.5 (6.5), 1-20 dH (5), 75-82°F (24-28°C) > > So.. Angelfish live naturally in water between pH 5-7.5 with the most common > being in 6.5. They live naturally in water with a hardness of 1-20 dH with > the most common being 5. > > Of course, man-bred Angelfish are being bred and raised in water parameters > that might be way outside their natural waters so they may do fine in your > tap water baseline. Further, if you go with a planted tank, as the ecology > takes over, your GH and KH will be lower in your tank than your tap as all > of the life forms (fish, plants, inverts, microbiological's, etc.) will use > up the elements that make up your GH and KH as part of sustaining their > existence. Given all of this, there's no reason you cannot try one or more > Angelfish, although a single Angelfish would give you more room for other > fish and you wouldn't have to worry about getting a pair or two males that > might cause havoc and chaos in your tank. > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right > side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) > > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On > Behalf Of robbrouse > Sent: Friday, August 21, 2009 3:21 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Nitrite. > > My GH is 11 and KH is 4 (had a friend bring over his test kit) > > I'm thinking of > 4 Grouami's 1 male and 3 females) > 4 to 6 Cordores Cat fish > I like Black Neons Tetra's but from what I was reading not really a good > match with the other fish. > > I was also thinking about maybe 4 or 5 Green or Tiger Barbs. > > Would this be a good match in my tap water. > > Ammonia 0 > Nitrite 0 > Nitrate 10 > Ph 7.4 > GH 11 > KH 4 > > I can drop the hardness to 7 doing a 2 Tap 1 RO mixture, but with cold > weather around the corner I can just see the hassle of getting water from > the store. > > My wife wants angel Fish they site you talked about talks about much softer > water have you heard of angel fish living in harder water? > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@> > wrote: > > > > Just does the tank daily with 4-5ppm of ammonia. Test it 12 hours later. > > If the numbers are 0.0 for ammonia and nitrite, then your tank is > > fully cycled. Dosing twice daily at that point might be a good thing > > to keep it fully cycled so that the lack of ammonia/nitrite for that > > 12 hour period could cause some of the bacteria to start dying off. > > > > When you bring home your fish, do a 90% PWC, then slowly acclimate the > > fish to the tanks water parameters. > > > > Did you ever decide on what kind of fish you were going to get? > > > > Were you going to stick to your original plan of using 50% RO water or > > go with fish that like your naturally hard and higher pH tap water? > > I'd go with the natural water parameters so that I could continue to > > use my Python Water Changer hooked right to my tap water faucet when > > doing my PWC's. I NEVER want to go back to using buckets ever > > again... although I still keep them around in case of roof leaks from > > a hurricane. LOL > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles > > referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically > > under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] > > On Behalf Of robbrouse > > Sent: Friday, August 21, 2009 1:08 PM > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Nitrite. > > > > Very good to know. OK heres the reading as of toady. > > > > Ammonia 0 > > Nitrite 0 > > Nitrate 10 > > Ph 7.4 > > hardness 220 >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 42827	From: biG poppa	Date: 8/21/2009
Subject: Re: Jellybean Parrots

she olny gets white or albino before laying eggs,, shes a nice orange with blue tips on her fins..also a very hardy fish --- On Fri, 8/21/09, clandestine662002 <clandestine662002@...> wrote: From: clandestine662002 <clandestine662002@...> Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Jellybean Parrots To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Date: Friday, August 21, 2009, 5:41 PM   My guess would be that the aggression, and non-parrot like mouth stems from the cross breeding with Convicts. They are also known for breeding often. Lenny posted a link, that I had looked at in regards to the Jellybeans. I thought it was helpful. After owning a regular, BP I was kind of disappointed that the Jellybean wasn't more similar. But I get what you mean about personality, ours is full of it. But not quite the decorator like my regular BP. --- In AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com, biG poppa <greychildren@ ...> wrote: > > I have a female...that sits there and stares at you and follows you around the house as you walk kind of creepy sometimes but shes fun also very agressive.. she lays egg every other month [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 42828	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 8/21/2009
Subject: Re: Nitrite.

what test kit are you using for your "hardness" test? Amber robbrouse wrote: > > > TAP WATER BASE LINE > > TAP dechlor 24 Hours 48 Hours > Ammonia 0 0 0 0 > Nitrite .5 .5 .5 > pH 7.8 7.5 7.5 (between 7.4 & 7.6) > Hardness 220 220 220 > Nitrate 0 0 0 > Temp 66 Room Temp room Temp > > I do not have the KH and Gh test kits Order should be here next week. > > I did some test on 50/50 RO and TAP mixed and what changed was/ > 48 Hours + Sitting (bought the water last Saturday) > Ammonia 0 > Nitrate .5 > pH 7.4 > Nitrate 0 > Hardness 110 > > I have a 55 gallon barrel and 5 7 gallon containers that sit out with > the water being treated and never comes straight from the tap. > > Side note I found if you treat your tap water with conditioner it very > drinkable (even after several months) so I have always keep a larger > number of gallons on hand for this to be Dione with. > > I have been talking with my wife and if we can avoid the RO water this > would be best we have to lug the 5 jugs down 2 flights of stairs in > order to get it to the tank. I just want to make the right choice in > fish. > > About 3 years ago I did keep Black Neons in a 10 gallon tank with just > tap water and they lived about 3 years until we went on vacation and > I'm really not sure what happen but 5 of the 7 died. The 55 gallon has > always giving me problems. I replace the filter with a better canister > filter and still have the bio wheel on the back. The tank broke so > it's new and I spent a great deal of time washing the ricks to make > sure nothing was in there. > > Anyhow more info with my tap water base line. I do not have an issue > using RO if needed. I have really missed fish keeping and want to do > it right this go round. > > Robb > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>, "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" > <GoldLenny@...> wrote: > > > > OK. Have you done a tap water baseline test yet... or just your tank > water > > testing? If you haven't, please do the 48 hour tap water baseline... of > > just your tap water with your dechlor added so we can know what your tap > > water is going to be like. > > > > I know you've mentioned adding RO water to the tank... or maybe > not... so > > I'm just not sure of which numbers are your "real" 48 hour tap water > > baseline numbers.. or if you've done this yet. > > > > The numbers you mention below show 0.0ppm for nitrite and I know you > > mentioned that your tap water has 0.5ppm of nitrite so I'm guessing > these > > are your tank readings.. which are good to know, but when fishless > cycling a > > tank, the numbers are not going to be the same as your tap water > baseline or > > once you add fish, plants, etc., to the tank. If you were to test the pH > > right after adding your 4-5ppm of ammonia, your pH would likely be much > > higher since the added ammonia is going to change the pH. > > > > It's good to see these numbers but I thought you mentioned your pH being > > much higher than 7.4 originally. If your baseline pH is 7.4, then > you will > > be fine with a VERY LARGE variety of fish. Most fish easily tolerate > 6.8 to > > 7.4 pH levels. It's when your baseline is a lot lower or higher that you > > have to start being more picky about your fish that you keep. > > > > Let us know your tap water baseline numbers and I'm glad you are leaning > > away from the added RO water. It seems like a good idea at first but > like > > you said, it can end up being a major detraction at some point in > the future > > and you may end up putting off tank maintenance if you aren't able > to get to > > the store for RO water and that's not a good thing either. > > > > You mentioned Angelfish but in all this talk, I forget what size > tank you > > have. Angelfish grow to be BIG fish (over 6" long and over 6" tall > so they > > have the body mass of a much larger standard shaped fish.. probably > > comparable to a 12"+ long standard shaped fish) so you would need a > decent > > sized tank to keep Angelfish and other fish. Here is the Mongabay > profile > > on Angelfish. http://fish.mongabay.com/angelfish.htm > <http://fish.mongabay.com/angelfish.htm> You'll have to scroll > > down to the middle for the profile on P. scalare since that is the > species > > closest to what you'll find commonly in stores today. The P. altum > species > > grows much larger. You'll see under "Water"... > > > > WATER: pH 5-7.5 (6.5), 1-20 dH (5), 75-82°F (24-28°C) > > > > So.. Angelfish live naturally in water between pH 5-7.5 with the > most common > > being in 6.5. They live naturally in water with a hardness of 1-20 > dH with > > the most common being 5. > > > > Of course, man-bred Angelfish are being bred and raised in water > parameters > > that might be way outside their natural waters so they may do fine > in your > > tap water baseline. Further, if you go with a planted tank, as the > ecology > > takes over, your GH and KH will be lower in your tank than your tap > as all > > of the life forms (fish, plants, inverts, microbiological's, etc.) > will use > > up the elements that make up your GH and KH as part of sustaining their > > existence. Given all of this, there's no reason you cannot try one > or more > > Angelfish, although a single Angelfish would give you more room for > other > > fish and you wouldn't have to worry about getting a pair or two > males that > > might cause havoc and chaos in your tank. > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right > > side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, > Month) > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On > > Behalf Of robbrouse > > Sent: Friday, August 21, 2009 3:21 PM > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Nitrite. > > > > My GH is 11 and KH is 4 (had a friend bring over his test kit) > > > > I'm thinking of > > 4 Grouami's 1 male and 3 females) > > 4 to 6 Cordores Cat fish > > I like Black Neons Tetra's but from what I was reading not really a good > > match with the other fish. > > > > I was also thinking about maybe 4 or 5 Green or Tiger Barbs. > > > > Would this be a good match in my tap water. > > > > Ammonia 0 > > Nitrite 0 > > Nitrate 10 > > Ph 7.4 > > GH 11 > > KH 4 > > > > I can drop the hardness to 7 doing a 2 Tap 1 RO mixture, but with cold > > weather around the corner I can just see the hassle of getting water > from > > the store. > > > > My wife wants angel Fish they site you talked about talks about much > softer > > water have you heard of angel fish living in harder water? > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>, "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" > <GoldLenny@> > > wrote: > > > > > > Just does the tank daily with 4-5ppm of ammonia. Test it 12 hours > later. > > > If the numbers are 0.0 for ammonia and nitrite, then your tank is > > > fully cycled. Dosing twice daily at that point might be a good thing > > > to keep it fully cycled so that the lack of ammonia/nitrite for that > > > 12 hour period could cause some of the bacteria to start dying off. > > > > > > When you bring home your fish, do a 90% PWC, then slowly acclimate > the > > > fish to the tanks water parameters. > > > > > > Did you ever decide on what kind of fish you were going to get? > > > > > > Were you going to stick to your original plan of using 50% RO > water or > > > go with fish that like your naturally hard and higher pH tap water? > > > I'd go with the natural water parameters so that I could continue to > > > use my Python Water Changer hooked right to my tap water faucet when > > > doing my PWC's. I NEVER want to go back to using buckets ever > > > again... although I still keep them around in case of roof leaks from > > > a hurricane. LOL > > > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> (Links to any articles > > > referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, > alphabetically > > > under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) > > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] > > > On Behalf Of robbrouse > > > Sent: Friday, August 21, 2009 1:08 PM > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Nitrite. > > > > > > Very good to know. OK heres the reading as of toady. > > > > > > Ammonia 0 > > > Nitrite 0 > > > Nitrate 10 > > > Ph 7.4 > > > hardness 220 > > > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 42829	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 8/21/2009
Subject: Re: Nitrite.

I'm jealous my LFS doesn't even get female gourami's in stock, all they get are Male's, so I can only get one pretty little guy per tank at most ;) LOL Even in my 125 gallon my dwarf gourami picks on my Severum and starts any fights, but the Severum just has to turn around for the gourami to give up and run away, LOL. Amber robbrouse wrote: > > > My GH is 11 and KH is 4 (had a friend bring over his test kit) > > I'm thinking of > 4 Grouami's 1 male and 3 females) > 4 to 6 Cordores Cat fish > I like Black Neons Tetra's but from what I was reading not really a > good match with the other fish. > > I was also thinking about maybe 4 or 5 Green or Tiger Barbs. > > Would this be a good match in my tap water. > > Ammonia 0 > Nitrite 0 > Nitrate 10 > Ph 7.4 > GH 11 > KH 4 > > I can drop the hardness to 7 doing a 2 Tap 1 RO mixture, but with cold > weather around the corner I can just see the hassle of getting water > from the store. > > My wife wants angel Fish they site you talked about talks about much > softer water have you heard of angel fish living in harder water? > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>, "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" > <GoldLenny@...> wrote: > > > > Just does the tank daily with 4-5ppm of ammonia. Test it 12 hours later. > > If the numbers are 0.0 for ammonia and nitrite, then your tank is fully > > cycled. Dosing twice daily at that point might be a good thing to > keep it > > fully cycled so that the lack of ammonia/nitrite for that 12 hour period > > could cause some of the bacteria to start dying off. > > > > When you bring home your fish, do a 90% PWC, then slowly acclimate > the fish > > to the tanks water parameters. > > > > Did you ever decide on what kind of fish you were going to get? > > > > Were you going to stick to your original plan of using 50% RO water > or go > > with fish that like your naturally hard and higher pH tap water? I'd go > > with the natural water parameters so that I could continue to use my > Python > > Water Changer hooked right to my tap water faucet when doing my PWC's. I > > NEVER want to go back to using buckets ever again... although I > still keep > > them around in case of roof leaks from a hurricane. LOL > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right > > side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, > Month) > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On > > Behalf Of robbrouse > > Sent: Friday, August 21, 2009 1:08 PM > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Nitrite. > > > > Very good to know. OK heres the reading as of toady. > > > > Ammonia 0 > > Nitrite 0 > > Nitrate 10 > > Ph 7.4 > > hardness 220 > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 42830	From: robbrouse	Date: 8/21/2009
Subject: Re: Nitrite.

It's an old Aquarium Pharmaceutics. 3 Bottle test set. I'm not 100% sure it still good. I have a new one from big Al's that should be here next week. Can't find them local. Petsmart or Petco or even Wally World doesn't sell them. Robb --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, Amber Berglund <arberglund@...> wrote: > > what test kit are you using for your "hardness" test? > > Amber > > robbrouse wrote: > > > > > > TAP WATER BASE LINE > > > > TAP dechlor 24 Hours 48 Hours > > Ammonia 0 0 0 0 > > Nitrite .5 .5 .5 > > pH 7.8 7.5 7.5 (between 7.4 & 7.6) > > Hardness 220 220 220 > > Nitrate 0 0 0 > > Temp 66 Room Temp room Temp > > > > I do not have the KH and Gh test kits Order should be here next week. > > > > I did some test on 50/50 RO and TAP mixed and what changed was/ > > 48 Hours + Sitting (bought the water last Saturday) > > Ammonia 0 > > Nitrate .5 > > pH 7.4 > > Nitrate 0 > > Hardness 110 > > > > I have a 55 gallon barrel and 5 7 gallon containers that sit out with > > the water being treated and never comes straight from the tap. > > > > Side note I found if you treat your tap water with conditioner it very > > drinkable (even after several months) so I have always keep a larger > > number of gallons on hand for this to be Dione with. > > > > I have been talking with my wife and if we can avoid the RO water this > > would be best we have to lug the 5 jugs down 2 flights of stairs in > > order to get it to the tank. I just want to make the right choice in > > fish. > > > > About 3 years ago I did keep Black Neons in a 10 gallon tank with just > > tap water and they lived about 3 years until we went on vacation and > > I'm really not sure what happen but 5 of the 7 died. The 55 gallon has > > always giving me problems. I replace the filter with a better canister > > filter and still have the bio wheel on the back. The tank broke so > > it's new and I spent a great deal of time washing the ricks to make > > sure nothing was in there. > > > > Anyhow more info with my tap water base line. I do not have an issue > > using RO if needed. I have really missed fish keeping and want to do > > it right this go round. > > > > Robb > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>, "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" > > <GoldLenny@> wrote: > > > > > > OK. Have you done a tap water baseline test yet... or just your tank > > water > > > testing? If you haven't, please do the 48 hour tap water baseline... of > > > just your tap water with your dechlor added so we can know what your tap > > > water is going to be like. > > > > > > I know you've mentioned adding RO water to the tank... or maybe > > not... so > > > I'm just not sure of which numbers are your "real" 48 hour tap water > > > baseline numbers.. or if you've done this yet. > > > > > > The numbers you mention below show 0.0ppm for nitrite and I know you > > > mentioned that your tap water has 0.5ppm of nitrite so I'm guessing > > these > > > are your tank readings.. which are good to know, but when fishless > > cycling a > > > tank, the numbers are not going to be the same as your tap water > > baseline or > > > once you add fish, plants, etc., to the tank. If you were to test the pH > > > right after adding your 4-5ppm of ammonia, your pH would likely be much > > > higher since the added ammonia is going to change the pH. > > > > > > It's good to see these numbers but I thought you mentioned your pH being > > > much higher than 7.4 originally. If your baseline pH is 7.4, then > > you will > > > be fine with a VERY LARGE variety of fish. Most fish easily tolerate > > 6.8 to > > > 7.4 pH levels. It's when your baseline is a lot lower or higher that you > > > have to start being more picky about your fish that you keep. > > > > > > Let us know your tap water baseline numbers and I'm glad you are leaning > > > away from the added RO water. It seems like a good idea at first but > > like > > > you said, it can end up being a major detraction at some point in > > the future > > > and you may end up putting off tank maintenance if you aren't able > > to get to > > > the store for RO water and that's not a good thing either. > > > > > > You mentioned Angelfish but in all this talk, I forget what size > > tank you > > > have. Angelfish grow to be BIG fish (over 6" long and over 6" tall > > so they > > > have the body mass of a much larger standard shaped fish.. probably > > > comparable to a 12"+ long standard shaped fish) so you would need a > > decent > > > sized tank to keep Angelfish and other fish. Here is the Mongabay > > profile > > > on Angelfish. http://fish.mongabay.com/angelfish.htm > > <http://fish.mongabay.com/angelfish.htm> You'll have to scroll > > > down to the middle for the profile on P. scalare since that is the > > species > > > closest to what you'll find commonly in stores today. The P. altum > > species > > > grows much larger. You'll see under "Water"... > > > > > > WATER: pH 5-7.5 (6.5), 1-20 dH (5), 75-82°F (24-28°C) > > > > > > So.. Angelfish live naturally in water between pH 5-7.5 with the > > most common > > > being in 6.5. They live naturally in water with a hardness of 1-20 > > dH with > > > the most common being 5. > > > > > > Of course, man-bred Angelfish are being bred and raised in water > > parameters > > > that might be way outside their natural waters so they may do fine > > in your > > > tap water baseline. Further, if you go with a planted tank, as the > > ecology > > > takes over, your GH and KH will be lower in your tank than your tap > > as all > > > of the life forms (fish, plants, inverts, microbiological's, etc.) > > will use > > > up the elements that make up your GH and KH as part of sustaining their > > > existence. Given all of this, there's no reason you cannot try one > > or more > > > Angelfish, although a single Angelfish would give you more room for > > other > > > fish and you wouldn't have to worry about getting a pair or two > > males that > > > might cause havoc and chaos in your tank. > > > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right > > > side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, > > Month) > > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On > > > Behalf Of robbrouse > > > Sent: Friday, August 21, 2009 3:21 PM > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Nitrite. > > > > > > My GH is 11 and KH is 4 (had a friend bring over his test kit) > > > > > > I'm thinking of > > > 4 Grouami's 1 male and 3 females) > > > 4 to 6 Cordores Cat fish > > > I like Black Neons Tetra's but from what I was reading not really a good > > > match with the other fish. > > > > > > I was also thinking about maybe 4 or 5 Green or Tiger Barbs. > > > > > > Would this be a good match in my tap water. > > > > > > Ammonia 0 > > > Nitrite 0 > > > Nitrate 10 > > > Ph 7.4 > > > GH 11 > > > KH 4 > > > > > > I can drop the hardness to 7 doing a 2 Tap 1 RO mixture, but with cold > > > weather around the corner I can just see the hassle of getting water > > from > > > the store. > > > > > > My wife wants angel Fish they site you talked about talks about much > > softer > > > water have you heard of angel fish living in harder water? > > > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>, "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" > > <GoldLenny@> > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > Just does the tank daily with 4-5ppm of ammonia. Test it 12 hours > > later. > > > > If the numbers are 0.0 for ammonia and nitrite, then your tank is > > > > fully cycled. Dosing twice daily at that point might be a good thing > > > > to keep it fully cycled so that the lack of ammonia/nitrite for that > > > > 12 hour period could cause some of the bacteria to start dying off. > > > > > > > > When you bring home your fish, do a 90% PWC, then slowly acclimate > > the > > > > fish to the tanks water parameters. > > > > > > > > Did you ever decide on what kind of fish you were going to get? > > > > > > > > Were you going to stick to your original plan of using 50% RO > > water or > > > > go with fish that like your naturally hard and higher pH tap water? > > > > I'd go with the natural water parameters so that I could continue to > > > > use my Python Water Changer hooked right to my tap water faucet when > > > > doing my PWC's. I NEVER want to go back to using buckets ever > > > > again... although I still keep them around in case of roof leaks from > > > > a hurricane. LOL > > > > > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> (Links to any articles > > > > referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, > > alphabetically > > > > under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) > > > > > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] > > > > On Behalf Of robbrouse > > > > Sent: Friday, August 21, 2009 1:08 PM > > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Nitrite. > > > > > > > > Very good to know. OK heres the reading as of toady. > > > > > > > > Ammonia 0 > > > > Nitrite 0 > > > > Nitrate 10 > > > > Ph 7.4 > > > > hardness 220 > > > > > > > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 42831	From: robbrouse	Date: 8/21/2009
Subject: Re: Nitrite.

The waiting is driving me nuts. I think I have it all figured out what I want to get then a read about something else and then I read about something else. Oh well thats part of the fun I guess. I hope to hit the pet store again tomorrow after work and get a better idea of whats out there. I was settle on Gold Fish and then started researching them I I just don't think they'd be too happy in my tank. I just want to get bigger fish this go round. It'll happen soon enough. I hope I can get females gourami's I haven't check yet. Last time I had 3 or 4 of them. Just can't remember what I bough them. I tried to steer clear of the big box stores. --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, Amber Berglund <arberglund@...> wrote: > > I'm jealous my LFS doesn't even get female gourami's in stock, all they > get are Male's, so I can only get one pretty little guy per tank at most > ;) LOL > Even in my 125 gallon my dwarf gourami picks on my Severum and starts > any fights, but the Severum just has to turn around for the gourami to > give up and run away, LOL. > > Amber > > robbrouse wrote: > > > > > > My GH is 11 and KH is 4 (had a friend bring over his test kit) > > > > I'm thinking of > > 4 Grouami's 1 male and 3 females) > > 4 to 6 Cordores Cat fish > > I like Black Neons Tetra's but from what I was reading not really a > > good match with the other fish. > > > > I was also thinking about maybe 4 or 5 Green or Tiger Barbs. > > > > Would this be a good match in my tap water. > > > > Ammonia 0 > > Nitrite 0 > > Nitrate 10 > > Ph 7.4 > > GH 11 > > KH 4 > > > > I can drop the hardness to 7 doing a 2 Tap 1 RO mixture, but with cold > > weather around the corner I can just see the hassle of getting water > > from the store. > > > > My wife wants angel Fish they site you talked about talks about much > > softer water have you heard of angel fish living in harder water? > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>, "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" > > <GoldLenny@> wrote: > > > > > > Just does the tank daily with 4-5ppm of ammonia. Test it 12 hours later. > > > If the numbers are 0.0 for ammonia and nitrite, then your tank is fully > > > cycled. Dosing twice daily at that point might be a good thing to > > keep it > > > fully cycled so that the lack of ammonia/nitrite for that 12 hour period > > > could cause some of the bacteria to start dying off. > > > > > > When you bring home your fish, do a 90% PWC, then slowly acclimate > > the fish > > > to the tanks water parameters. > > > > > > Did you ever decide on what kind of fish you were going to get? > > > > > > Were you going to stick to your original plan of using 50% RO water > > or go > > > with fish that like your naturally hard and higher pH tap water? I'd go > > > with the natural water parameters so that I could continue to use my > > Python > > > Water Changer hooked right to my tap water faucet when doing my PWC's. I > > > NEVER want to go back to using buckets ever again... although I > > still keep > > > them around in case of roof leaks from a hurricane. LOL > > > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right > > > side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, > > Month) > > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On > > > Behalf Of robbrouse > > > Sent: Friday, August 21, 2009 1:08 PM > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Nitrite. > > > > > > Very good to know. OK heres the reading as of toady. > > > > > > Ammonia 0 > > > Nitrite 0 > > > Nitrate 10 > > > Ph 7.4 > > > hardness 220 > > > > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 42832	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 8/21/2009
Subject: Re: Nitrite.

Walmart.com does sell the API Master Test Kits for around 17.00 with free shipping to your local store (unless you live on an island in Alaska). I know this doesn't help if you've already ordered from Big Al's. Most PetsMart stores also sell the API Master Test Kit but for around $25 to $30. If you're still using an old kit, more than a year old, then your numbers could be way off so wait for your new kit and make sure of your tap water baseline and that your tank is properly cycling before adding fish. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of robbrouse Sent: Friday, August 21, 2009 7:58 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Nitrite. It's an old Aquarium Pharmaceutics. 3 Bottle test set. I'm not 100% sure it still good. I have a new one from big Al's that should be here next week. Can't find them local. Petsmart or Petco or even Wally World doesn't sell them. Robb --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, Amber Berglund <arberglund@...> wrote: > > what test kit are you using for your "hardness" test? > > Amber > > robbrouse wrote: > > > > > > TAP WATER BASE LINE > > > > TAP dechlor 24 Hours 48 Hours > > Ammonia 0 0 0 0 > > Nitrite .5 .5 .5 > > pH 7.8 7.5 7.5 (between 7.4 & 7.6) > > Hardness 220 220 220 > > Nitrate 0 0 0 > > Temp 66 Room Temp room Temp > > > > I do not have the KH and Gh test kits Order should be here next week. > > > > I did some test on 50/50 RO and TAP mixed and what changed was/ > > 48 Hours + Sitting (bought the water last Saturday) Ammonia 0 > > Nitrate .5 pH 7.4 Nitrate 0 Hardness 110 > > > > I have a 55 gallon barrel and 5 7 gallon containers that sit out > > with the water being treated and never comes straight from the tap. > > > > Side note I found if you treat your tap water with conditioner it > > very drinkable (even after several months) so I have always keep a > > larger number of gallons on hand for this to be Dione with. > > > > I have been talking with my wife and if we can avoid the RO water > > this would be best we have to lug the 5 jugs down 2 flights of > > stairs in order to get it to the tank. I just want to make the right > > choice in fish. > > > > About 3 years ago I did keep Black Neons in a 10 gallon tank with > > just tap water and they lived about 3 years until we went on > > vacation and I'm really not sure what happen but 5 of the 7 died. > > The 55 gallon has always giving me problems. I replace the filter > > with a better canister filter and still have the bio wheel on the > > back. The tank broke so it's new and I spent a great deal of time > > washing the ricks to make sure nothing was in there. > > > > Anyhow more info with my tap water base line. I do not have an issue > > using RO if needed. I have really missed fish keeping and want to do > > it right this go round. > > > > Robb > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>, "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" > > <GoldLenny@> wrote: > > > > > > OK. Have you done a tap water baseline test yet... or just your > > > tank > > water > > > testing? If you haven't, please do the 48 hour tap water > > > baseline... of just your tap water with your dechlor added so we > > > can know what your tap water is going to be like. > > > > > > I know you've mentioned adding RO water to the tank... or maybe > > not... so > > > I'm just not sure of which numbers are your "real" 48 hour tap > > > water baseline numbers.. or if you've done this yet. > > > > > > The numbers you mention below show 0.0ppm for nitrite and I know > > > you mentioned that your tap water has 0.5ppm of nitrite so I'm > > > guessing > > these > > > are your tank readings.. which are good to know, but when fishless > > cycling a > > > tank, the numbers are not going to be the same as your tap water > > baseline or > > > once you add fish, plants, etc., to the tank. If you were to test > > > the pH right after adding your 4-5ppm of ammonia, your pH would > > > likely be much higher since the added ammonia is going to change the pH. > > > > > > It's good to see these numbers but I thought you mentioned your pH > > > being much higher than 7.4 originally. If your baseline pH is 7.4, > > > then > > you will > > > be fine with a VERY LARGE variety of fish. Most fish easily > > > tolerate > > 6.8 to > > > 7.4 pH levels. It's when your baseline is a lot lower or higher > > > that you have to start being more picky about your fish that you keep. > > > > > > Let us know your tap water baseline numbers and I'm glad you are > > > leaning away from the added RO water. It seems like a good idea at > > > first but > > like > > > you said, it can end up being a major detraction at some point in > > the future > > > and you may end up putting off tank maintenance if you aren't able > > to get to > > > the store for RO water and that's not a good thing either. > > > > > > You mentioned Angelfish but in all this talk, I forget what size > > tank you > > > have. Angelfish grow to be BIG fish (over 6" long and over 6" tall > > so they > > > have the body mass of a much larger standard shaped fish.. > > > probably comparable to a 12"+ long standard shaped fish) so you > > > would need a > > decent > > > sized tank to keep Angelfish and other fish. Here is the Mongabay > > profile > > > on Angelfish. http://fish.mongabay.com/angelfish.htm > > <http://fish.mongabay.com/angelfish.htm> You'll have to scroll > > > down to the middle for the profile on P. scalare since that is the > > species > > > closest to what you'll find commonly in stores today. The P. altum > > species > > > grows much larger. You'll see under "Water"... > > > > > > WATER: pH 5-7.5 (6.5), 1-20 dH (5), 75-82°F (24-28°C) > > > > > > So.. Angelfish live naturally in water between pH 5-7.5 with the > > most common > > > being in 6.5. They live naturally in water with a hardness of 1-20 > > dH with > > > the most common being 5. > > > > > > Of course, man-bred Angelfish are being bred and raised in water > > parameters > > > that might be way outside their natural waters so they may do fine > > in your > > > tap water baseline. Further, if you go with a planted tank, as the > > ecology > > > takes over, your GH and KH will be lower in your tank than your > > > tap > > as all > > > of the life forms (fish, plants, inverts, microbiological's, etc.) > > will use > > > up the elements that make up your GH and KH as part of sustaining > > > their existence. Given all of this, there's no reason you cannot > > > try one > > or more > > > Angelfish, although a single Angelfish would give you more room > > > for > > other > > > fish and you wouldn't have to worry about getting a pair or two > > males that > > > might cause havoc and chaos in your tank. > > > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the > > > right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by > > > Year, > > Month) > > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On > > > Behalf Of robbrouse > > > Sent: Friday, August 21, 2009 3:21 PM > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Nitrite. > > > > > > My GH is 11 and KH is 4 (had a friend bring over his test kit) > > > > > > I'm thinking of > > > 4 Grouami's 1 male and 3 females) > > > 4 to 6 Cordores Cat fish > > > I like Black Neons Tetra's but from what I was reading not really > > > a good match with the other fish. > > > > > > I was also thinking about maybe 4 or 5 Green or Tiger Barbs. > > > > > > Would this be a good match in my tap water. > > > > > > Ammonia 0 > > > Nitrite 0 > > > Nitrate 10 > > > Ph 7.4 > > > GH 11 > > > KH 4 > > > > > > I can drop the hardness to 7 doing a 2 Tap 1 RO mixture, but with > > > cold weather around the corner I can just see the hassle of > > > getting water > > from > > > the store. > > > > > > My wife wants angel Fish they site you talked about talks about > > > much > > softer > > > water have you heard of angel fish living in harder water? > > > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>, "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" > > <GoldLenny@> > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > Just does the tank daily with 4-5ppm of ammonia. Test it 12 > > > > hours > > later. > > > > If the numbers are 0.0 for ammonia and nitrite, then your tank > > > > is fully cycled. Dosing twice daily at that point might be a > > > > good thing to keep it fully cycled so that the lack of > > > > ammonia/nitrite for that > > > > 12 hour period could cause some of the bacteria to start dying off. > > > > > > > > When you bring home your fish, do a 90% PWC, then slowly > > > > acclimate > > the > > > > fish to the tanks water parameters. > > > > > > > > Did you ever decide on what kind of fish you were going to get? > > > > > > > > Were you going to stick to your original plan of using 50% RO > > water or > > > > go with fish that like your naturally hard and higher pH tap water? > > > > I'd go with the natural water parameters so that I could > > > > continue to use my Python Water Changer hooked right to my tap > > > > water faucet when doing my PWC's. I NEVER want to go back to > > > > using buckets ever again... although I still keep them around in > > > > case of roof leaks from a hurricane. LOL > > > > > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> (Links to any articles > > > > referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, > > alphabetically > > > > under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) > > > > > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] > > > > On Behalf Of robbrouse > > > > Sent: Friday, August 21, 2009 1:08 PM > > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Nitrite. > > > > > > > > Very good to know. OK heres the reading as of toady. > > > > > > > > Ammonia 0 > > > > Nitrite 0 > > > > Nitrate 10 > > > > Ph 7.4 > > > > hardness 220 > > > > > > > > ------------------------------------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the home page. Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com to receive the digest, which includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com for the No E-Mail option where you will still be able to read messages on the group and post replies. Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com to receive individual e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 42833	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 8/21/2009
Subject: Re: Nitrite.

Remember that bigger fish need more water volume per fish on a geometric scale. See my blog article about stocking rules to replace the one gallon per inch fish killing rule that still permeates the hobby. I was just re-reading your thoughts about stocking your tank but you do not state your tank size. You may have posted it out here before but I simply quit trying to remember these kinds of things. What size tank do you have? I seem to remember it being around a 55G tank since I think it was you that stated you were going to get 4-5 goldfish and read on my blog that this won't work. While gourami's do not get as big as goldfish, they can be kind of aggressive and/or territorial so you might have problems with four of them in a 55G as well... especially if you get a mated pair. I hope you have plans on rehoming the other two females as soon as a pair matches up and if they spawn, things could get even testier in the tank. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of robbrouse Sent: Friday, August 21, 2009 8:19 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Nitrite. The waiting is driving me nuts. I think I have it all figured out what I want to get then a read about something else and then I read about something else. Oh well thats part of the fun I guess. I hope to hit the pet store again tomorrow after work and get a better idea of whats out there. I was settle on Gold Fish and then started researching them I I just don't think they'd be too happy in my tank. I just want to get bigger fish this go round. It'll happen soon enough. I hope I can get females gourami's I haven't check yet. Last time I had 3 or 4 of them. Just can't remember what I bough them. I tried to steer clear of the big box stores. --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, Amber Berglund <arberglund@...> wrote: > > I'm jealous my LFS doesn't even get female gourami's in stock, all > they get are Male's, so I can only get one pretty little guy per tank > at most > ;) LOL > Even in my 125 gallon my dwarf gourami picks on my Severum and starts > any fights, but the Severum just has to turn around for the gourami to > give up and run away, LOL. > > Amber > > robbrouse wrote: > > > > > > My GH is 11 and KH is 4 (had a friend bring over his test kit) > > > > I'm thinking of > > 4 Grouami's 1 male and 3 females) > > 4 to 6 Cordores Cat fish > > I like Black Neons Tetra's but from what I was reading not really a > > good match with the other fish. > > > > I was also thinking about maybe 4 or 5 Green or Tiger Barbs. > > > > Would this be a good match in my tap water. > > > > Ammonia 0 > > Nitrite 0 > > Nitrate 10 > > Ph 7.4 > > GH 11 > > KH 4 > > > > I can drop the hardness to 7 doing a 2 Tap 1 RO mixture, but with > > cold weather around the corner I can just see the hassle of getting > > water from the store. > > > > My wife wants angel Fish they site you talked about talks about much > > softer water have you heard of angel fish living in harder water? > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>, "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" > > <GoldLenny@> wrote: > > > > > > Just does the tank daily with 4-5ppm of ammonia. Test it 12 hours later. > > > If the numbers are 0.0 for ammonia and nitrite, then your tank is > > > fully cycled. Dosing twice daily at that point might be a good > > > thing to > > keep it > > > fully cycled so that the lack of ammonia/nitrite for that 12 hour > > > period could cause some of the bacteria to start dying off. > > > > > > When you bring home your fish, do a 90% PWC, then slowly acclimate > > the fish > > > to the tanks water parameters. > > > > > > Did you ever decide on what kind of fish you were going to get? > > > > > > Were you going to stick to your original plan of using 50% RO > > > water > > or go > > > with fish that like your naturally hard and higher pH tap water? > > > I'd go with the natural water parameters so that I could continue > > > to use my > > Python > > > Water Changer hooked right to my tap water faucet when doing my > > > PWC's. I NEVER want to go back to using buckets ever again... > > > although I > > still keep > > > them around in case of roof leaks from a hurricane. LOL > > > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the > > > right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by > > > Year, > > Month) > > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On > > > Behalf Of robbrouse > > > Sent: Friday, August 21, 2009 1:08 PM > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Nitrite. > > > > > > Very good to know. OK heres the reading as of toady. > > > > > > Ammonia 0 > > > Nitrite 0 > > > Nitrate 10 > > > Ph 7.4 > > > hardness 220 > > > > > ------------------------------------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the home page. Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com to receive the digest, which includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com for the No E-Mail option where you will still be able to read messages on the group and post replies. Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com to receive individual e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 42834	From: robbrouse	Date: 8/21/2009
Subject: Re: Nitrite.

I did get a NEW master Test kit from Petsmart. It did not have the GH and KH in the hit but did have the nitrite kit in it. I order the GH and KH from Big Al's All the reading other than maybe the water hardness are from the new kit. I could not find a water hardness test kit locally. Big Al's was running Free shipping so I order from there. --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@...> wrote: > > Walmart.com does sell the API Master Test Kits for around 17.00 with free > shipping to your local store (unless you live on an island in Alaska). I > know this doesn't help if you've already ordered from Big Al's. Most > PetsMart stores also sell the API Master Test Kit but for around $25 to $30. > If you're still using an old kit, more than a year old, then your numbers > could be way off so wait for your new kit and make sure of your tap water > baseline and that your tank is properly cycling before adding fish. > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right > side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) > > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On > Behalf Of robbrouse > Sent: Friday, August 21, 2009 7:58 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Nitrite. > > It's an old Aquarium Pharmaceutics. 3 Bottle test set. I'm not 100% sure it > still good. I have a new one from big Al's that should be here next week. > Can't find them local. Petsmart or Petco or even Wally World doesn't sell > them. > > Robb > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, Amber Berglund <arberglund@> wrote: > > > > what test kit are you using for your "hardness" test? > > > > Amber > > > > robbrouse wrote: > > > > > > > > > TAP WATER BASE LINE > > > > > > TAP dechlor 24 Hours 48 Hours > > > Ammonia 0 0 0 0 > > > Nitrite .5 .5 .5 > > > pH 7.8 7.5 7.5 (between 7.4 & 7.6) > > > Hardness 220 220 220 > > > Nitrate 0 0 0 > > > Temp 66 Room Temp room Temp > > > > > > I do not have the KH and Gh test kits Order should be here next week. > > > > > > I did some test on 50/50 RO and TAP mixed and what changed was/ > > > 48 Hours + Sitting (bought the water last Saturday) Ammonia 0 > > > Nitrate .5 pH 7.4 Nitrate 0 Hardness 110 > > > > > > I have a 55 gallon barrel and 5 7 gallon containers that sit out > > > with the water being treated and never comes straight from the tap. > > > > > > Side note I found if you treat your tap water with conditioner it > > > very drinkable (even after several months) so I have always keep a > > > larger number of gallons on hand for this to be Dione with. > > > > > > I have been talking with my wife and if we can avoid the RO water > > > this would be best we have to lug the 5 jugs down 2 flights of > > > stairs in order to get it to the tank. I just want to make the right > > > choice in fish. > > > > > > About 3 years ago I did keep Black Neons in a 10 gallon tank with > > > just tap water and they lived about 3 years until we went on > > > vacation and I'm really not sure what happen but 5 of the 7 died. > > > The 55 gallon has always giving me problems. I replace the filter > > > with a better canister filter and still have the bio wheel on the > > > back. The tank broke so it's new and I spent a great deal of time > > > washing the ricks to make sure nothing was in there. > > > > > > Anyhow more info with my tap water base line. I do not have an issue > > > using RO if needed. I have really missed fish keeping and want to do > > > it right this go round. > > > > > > Robb > > > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>, "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" > > > <GoldLenny@> wrote: > > > > > > > > OK. Have you done a tap water baseline test yet... or just your > > > > tank > > > water > > > > testing? If you haven't, please do the 48 hour tap water > > > > baseline... of just your tap water with your dechlor added so we > > > > can know what your tap water is going to be like. > > > > > > > > I know you've mentioned adding RO water to the tank... or maybe > > > not... so > > > > I'm just not sure of which numbers are your "real" 48 hour tap > > > > water baseline numbers.. or if you've done this yet. > > > > > > > > The numbers you mention below show 0.0ppm for nitrite and I know > > > > you mentioned that your tap water has 0.5ppm of nitrite so I'm > > > > guessing > > > these > > > > are your tank readings.. which are good to know, but when fishless > > > cycling a > > > > tank, the numbers are not going to be the same as your tap water > > > baseline or > > > > once you add fish, plants, etc., to the tank. If you were to test > > > > the pH right after adding your 4-5ppm of ammonia, your pH would > > > > likely be much higher since the added ammonia is going to change the > pH. > > > > > > > > It's good to see these numbers but I thought you mentioned your pH > > > > being much higher than 7.4 originally. If your baseline pH is 7.4, > > > > then > > > you will > > > > be fine with a VERY LARGE variety of fish. Most fish easily > > > > tolerate > > > 6.8 to > > > > 7.4 pH levels. It's when your baseline is a lot lower or higher > > > > that you have to start being more picky about your fish that you keep. > > > > > > > > Let us know your tap water baseline numbers and I'm glad you are > > > > leaning away from the added RO water. It seems like a good idea at > > > > first but > > > like > > > > you said, it can end up being a major detraction at some point in > > > the future > > > > and you may end up putting off tank maintenance if you aren't able > > > to get to > > > > the store for RO water and that's not a good thing either. > > > > > > > > You mentioned Angelfish but in all this talk, I forget what size > > > tank you > > > > have. Angelfish grow to be BIG fish (over 6" long and over 6" tall > > > so they > > > > have the body mass of a much larger standard shaped fish.. > > > > probably comparable to a 12"+ long standard shaped fish) so you > > > > would need a > > > decent > > > > sized tank to keep Angelfish and other fish. Here is the Mongabay > > > profile > > > > on Angelfish. http://fish.mongabay.com/angelfish.htm > > > <http://fish.mongabay.com/angelfish.htm> You'll have to scroll > > > > down to the middle for the profile on P. scalare since that is the > > > species > > > > closest to what you'll find commonly in stores today. The P. altum > > > species > > > > grows much larger. You'll see under "Water"... > > > > > > > > WATER: pH 5-7.5 (6.5), 1-20 dH (5), 75-82°F (24-28°C) > > > > > > > > So.. Angelfish live naturally in water between pH 5-7.5 with the > > > most common > > > > being in 6.5. They live naturally in water with a hardness of 1-20 > > > dH with > > > > the most common being 5. > > > > > > > > Of course, man-bred Angelfish are being bred and raised in water > > > parameters > > > > that might be way outside their natural waters so they may do fine > > > in your > > > > tap water baseline. Further, if you go with a planted tank, as the > > > ecology > > > > takes over, your GH and KH will be lower in your tank than your > > > > tap > > > as all > > > > of the life forms (fish, plants, inverts, microbiological's, etc.) > > > will use > > > > up the elements that make up your GH and KH as part of sustaining > > > > their existence. Given all of this, there's no reason you cannot > > > > try one > > > or more > > > > Angelfish, although a single Angelfish would give you more room > > > > for > > > other > > > > fish and you wouldn't have to worry about getting a pair or two > > > males that > > > > might cause havoc and chaos in your tank. > > > > > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > > (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the > > > > right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by > > > > Year, > > > Month) > > > > > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On > > > > Behalf Of robbrouse > > > > Sent: Friday, August 21, 2009 3:21 PM > > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Nitrite. > > > > > > > > My GH is 11 and KH is 4 (had a friend bring over his test kit) > > > > > > > > I'm thinking of > > > > 4 Grouami's 1 male and 3 females) > > > > 4 to 6 Cordores Cat fish > > > > I like Black Neons Tetra's but from what I was reading not really > > > > a good match with the other fish. > > > > > > > > I was also thinking about maybe 4 or 5 Green or Tiger Barbs. > > > > > > > > Would this be a good match in my tap water. > > > > > > > > Ammonia 0 > > > > Nitrite 0 > > > > Nitrate 10 > > > > Ph 7.4 > > > > GH 11 > > > > KH 4 > > > > > > > > I can drop the hardness to 7 doing a 2 Tap 1 RO mixture, but with > > > > cold weather around the corner I can just see the hassle of > > > > getting water > > > from > > > > the store. > > > > > > > > My wife wants angel Fish they site you talked about talks about > > > > much > > > softer > > > > water have you heard of angel fish living in harder water? > > > > > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>, "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" > > > <GoldLenny@> > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > Just does the tank daily with 4-5ppm of ammonia. Test it 12 > > > > > hours > > > later. > > > > > If the numbers are 0.0 for ammonia and nitrite, then your tank > > > > > is fully cycled. Dosing twice daily at that point might be a > > > > > good thing to keep it fully cycled so that the lack of > > > > > ammonia/nitrite for that > > > > > 12 hour period could cause some of the bacteria to start dying off. > > > > > > > > > > When you bring home your fish, do a 90% PWC, then slowly > > > > > acclimate > > > the > > > > > fish to the tanks water parameters. > > > > > > > > > > Did you ever decide on what kind of fish you were going to get? > > > > > > > > > > Were you going to stick to your original plan of using 50% RO > > > water or > > > > > go with fish that like your naturally hard and higher pH tap water? > > > > > I'd go with the natural water parameters so that I could > > > > > continue to use my Python Water Changer hooked right to my tap > > > > > water faucet when doing my PWC's. I NEVER want to go back to > > > > > using buckets ever again... although I still keep them around in > > > > > case of roof leaks from a hurricane. LOL > > > > > > > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > > > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> (Links to any articles > > > > > referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, > > > alphabetically > > > > > under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] > > > > > On Behalf Of robbrouse > > > > > Sent: Friday, August 21, 2009 1:08 PM > > > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Nitrite. > > > > > > > > > > Very good to know. OK heres the reading as of toady. > > > > > > > > > > Ammonia 0 > > > > > Nitrite 0 > > > > > Nitrate 10 > > > > > Ph 7.4 > > > > > hardness 220 > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ------------------------------------ > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. > ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> > PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to > the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT > LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- > <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. > > If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of unsubscribing, you > can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the > home page. > > Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com to receive the digest, which > includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email > > Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com for the No E-Mail option where > you will still be able to read messages on the group and post replies. > > Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com to receive individual > e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 42835	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 8/21/2009
Subject: Re: Nitrite.

Robb said: Side note I found if you treat your tap water with conditioner it very drinkable (even after several months) so I have always keep a larger number of gallons on hand for this to be Dione with. Robb, If I'm reading the above paragraph correctly, you are treating your water with your aquarium dechlor product for later use as drinking water? If you are saying that, I think you should refrain from that practice. Most of the MSDS (Safety Data Sheets) on dechlor products show that at least one of the common chemicals in all dechlors is not good for human consumption. This is also why aquarium kept fish are not suitable for human consumption. I guess in an emergency, it's better than no water at all but I would just bottle regular tap water and not use a dechlor product. That's what I do down here in preparation for hurricanes. And then I stuff my freezer and refrigerator with these bottles to keep the fridge frozen and/or cold in the event of an extended power outage. I now have a generator but you never know when it might break down. Now that I have read your last message, I remember and realize you do have a new test kit from PetsMart... just not the GH and KH test kit. Which brand did you get since the ones I am familiar with do not have a hardness test as part of the main kit... at least not the API Master Test Kit. The Tetra-Laborette kit from Walmart.com has the GH and KH kits but not a nitrate kit so I'm not sure which brand you purchased that has the five tests you list in your Tap Water Baseline numbers below. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of robbrouse Sent: Friday, August 21, 2009 5:09 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Nitrite. TAP WATER BASE LINE TAP dechlor 24 Hours 48 Hours Ammonia 0 0 0 0 Nitrite .5 .5 .5 pH 7.8 7.5 7.5 (between 7.4 & 7.6) Hardness 220 220 220 Nitrate 0 0 0 Temp 66 Room Temp room Temp I do not have the KH and Gh test kits Order should be here next week. I did some test on 50/50 RO and TAP mixed and what changed was/ 48 Hours + Sitting (bought the water last Saturday) Ammonia 0 Nitrate .5 pH 7.4 Nitrate 0 Hardness 110 I have a 55 gallon barrel and 5 7 gallon containers that sit out with the water being treated and never comes straight from the tap. Side note I found if you treat your tap water with conditioner it very drinkable (even after several months) so I have always keep a larger number of gallons on hand for this to be Dione with. I have been talking with my wife and if we can avoid the RO water this would be best we have to lug the 5 jugs down 2 flights of stairs in order to get it to the tank. I just want to make the right choice in fish. About 3 years ago I did keep Black Neons in a 10 gallon tank with just tap water and they lived about 3 years until we went on vacation and I'm really not sure what happen but 5 of the 7 died. The 55 gallon has always giving me problems. I replace the filter with a better canister filter and still have the bio wheel on the back. The tank broke so it's new and I spent a great deal of time washing the ricks to make sure nothing was in there. Anyhow more info with my tap water base line. I do not have an issue using RO if needed. I have really missed fish keeping and want to do it right this go round. Robb --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@...> wrote: > > OK. Have you done a tap water baseline test yet... or just your tank > water testing? If you haven't, please do the 48 hour tap water > baseline... of just your tap water with your dechlor added so we can > know what your tap water is going to be like. > > I know you've mentioned adding RO water to the tank... or maybe not... > so I'm just not sure of which numbers are your "real" 48 hour tap > water baseline numbers.. or if you've done this yet. > > The numbers you mention below show 0.0ppm for nitrite and I know you > mentioned that your tap water has 0.5ppm of nitrite so I'm guessing > these are your tank readings.. which are good to know, but when > fishless cycling a tank, the numbers are not going to be the same as > your tap water baseline or once you add fish, plants, etc., to the > tank. If you were to test the pH right after adding your 4-5ppm of > ammonia, your pH would likely be much higher since the added ammonia is going to change the pH. > > It's good to see these numbers but I thought you mentioned your pH > being much higher than 7.4 originally. If your baseline pH is 7.4, > then you will be fine with a VERY LARGE variety of fish. Most fish > easily tolerate 6.8 to > 7.4 pH levels. It's when your baseline is a lot lower or higher that > you have to start being more picky about your fish that you keep. > > Let us know your tap water baseline numbers and I'm glad you are > leaning away from the added RO water. It seems like a good idea at > first but like you said, it can end up being a major detraction at > some point in the future and you may end up putting off tank > maintenance if you aren't able to get to the store for RO water and that's not a good thing either. > > You mentioned Angelfish but in all this talk, I forget what size tank > you have. Angelfish grow to be BIG fish (over 6" long and over 6" > tall so they have the body mass of a much larger standard shaped > fish.. probably comparable to a 12"+ long standard shaped fish) so you > would need a decent sized tank to keep Angelfish and other fish. Here > is the Mongabay profile on Angelfish. > http://fish.mongabay.com/angelfish.htm You'll have to scroll down to > the middle for the profile on P. scalare since that is the species > closest to what you'll find commonly in stores today. The P. altum species grows much larger. You'll see under "Water"... > > WATER: pH 5-7.5 (6.5), 1-20 dH (5), 75-82°F (24-28°C) > > So.. Angelfish live naturally in water between pH 5-7.5 with the most > common being in 6.5. They live naturally in water with a hardness of > 1-20 dH with the most common being 5. > > Of course, man-bred Angelfish are being bred and raised in water > parameters that might be way outside their natural waters so they may > do fine in your tap water baseline. Further, if you go with a planted > tank, as the ecology takes over, your GH and KH will be lower in your > tank than your tap as all of the life forms (fish, plants, inverts, > microbiological's, etc.) will use up the elements that make up your GH > and KH as part of sustaining their existence. Given all of this, > there's no reason you cannot try one or more Angelfish, although a > single Angelfish would give you more room for other fish and you > wouldn't have to worry about getting a pair or two males that might cause havoc and chaos in your tank. > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles > referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically > under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) > > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] > On Behalf Of robbrouse > Sent: Friday, August 21, 2009 3:21 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Nitrite. > > My GH is 11 and KH is 4 (had a friend bring over his test kit) > > I'm thinking of > 4 Grouami's 1 male and 3 females) > 4 to 6 Cordores Cat fish > I like Black Neons Tetra's but from what I was reading not really a > good match with the other fish. > > I was also thinking about maybe 4 or 5 Green or Tiger Barbs. > > Would this be a good match in my tap water. > > Ammonia 0 > Nitrite 0 > Nitrate 10 > Ph 7.4 > GH 11 > KH 4 > > I can drop the hardness to 7 doing a 2 Tap 1 RO mixture, but with cold > weather around the corner I can just see the hassle of getting water > from the store. > > My wife wants angel Fish they site you talked about talks about much > softer water have you heard of angel fish living in harder water? > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" > <GoldLenny@> > wrote: > > > > Just does the tank daily with 4-5ppm of ammonia. Test it 12 hours later. > > If the numbers are 0.0 for ammonia and nitrite, then your tank is > > fully cycled. Dosing twice daily at that point might be a good > > thing to keep it fully cycled so that the lack of ammonia/nitrite > > for that > > 12 hour period could cause some of the bacteria to start dying off. > > > > When you bring home your fish, do a 90% PWC, then slowly acclimate > > the fish to the tanks water parameters. > > > > Did you ever decide on what kind of fish you were going to get? > > > > Were you going to stick to your original plan of using 50% RO water > > or go with fish that like your naturally hard and higher pH tap water? > > I'd go with the natural water parameters so that I could continue to > > use my Python Water Changer hooked right to my tap water faucet when > > doing my PWC's. I NEVER want to go back to using buckets ever > > again... although I still keep them around in case of roof leaks > > from a hurricane. LOL > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles > > referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, > > alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] > > On Behalf Of robbrouse > > Sent: Friday, August 21, 2009 1:08 PM > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Nitrite. > > > > Very good to know. OK heres the reading as of toady. > > > > Ammonia 0 > > Nitrite 0 > > Nitrate 10 > > Ph 7.4 > > hardness 220 >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 42836	From: robbrouse	Date: 8/22/2009
Subject: Re: Nitrite.

Thanks you very much for the info about the water conditioner. I will not be doing that anymore. The bad part about my tap water if it sits for 48 hours or so the taste and smell is not good at all. So I'll just go back to the Brita filters and do it that way. Now the master kit I bought from Petsmart is the API kit. http://aquariumpharm.com/Products/Product.aspx?ProductID=67 I ordered this GH and KH test from Big Al's http://aquariumpharm.com/Products/Product.aspx?ProductID=74 The water hardness kit is a old Test kit I bough many years ago and I've been using in that kit is the water hardness and it a 3 bottle test kit so yes my hardness Levels might not be totally right. I have a friend come over with a Tetra Master kit and the KH was 3 and the GH was 12 from the tank, it was all the tests I did. Here is a link to that one. http://www.tetra-fish.com/sites/tetrafish/catalog/productdetail.aspx?id=1276&cid=242 So like I said all the other test were done with a kit that were manufactured this year and the hardness test was done by one in the late 90's I read someone those test are pretty good for ever. The RO water tested at 0 hardness. Like I stated before I do not want to use RO if i can help it can be a real pain getting waters and I'm worried my fish will suffer. Answer to another question you asked I have a 55 gallon tank. --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@...> wrote: > > Robb said: Side note I found if you treat your tap water with conditioner > it very drinkable (even after several months) so I have always keep a larger > number of gallons on hand for this to be Dione with. > > Robb, > > If I'm reading the above paragraph correctly, you are treating your water > with your aquarium dechlor product for later use as drinking water? If you > are saying that, I think you should refrain from that practice. Most of the > MSDS (Safety Data Sheets) on dechlor products show that at least one of the > common chemicals in all dechlors is not good for human consumption. This is > also why aquarium kept fish are not suitable for human consumption. I guess > in an emergency, it's better than no water at all but I would just bottle > regular tap water and not use a dechlor product. That's what I do down here > in preparation for hurricanes. And then I stuff my freezer and refrigerator > with these bottles to keep the fridge frozen and/or cold in the event of an > extended power outage. I now have a generator but you never know when it > might break down. > > Now that I have read your last message, I remember and realize you do have a > new test kit from PetsMart... just not the GH and KH test kit. Which brand > did you get since the ones I am familiar with do not have a hardness test as > part of the main kit... at least not the API Master Test Kit. The > Tetra-Laborette kit from Walmart.com has the GH and KH kits but not a > nitrate kit so I'm not sure which brand you purchased that has the five > tests you list in your Tap Water Baseline numbers below. > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right > side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) > > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On > Behalf Of robbrouse > Sent: Friday, August 21, 2009 5:09 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Nitrite. > > TAP WATER BASE LINE > > TAP dechlor 24 Hours 48 Hours > Ammonia 0 0 0 0 > Nitrite .5 .5 .5 > pH 7.8 7.5 7.5 (between 7.4 & 7.6) > Hardness 220 220 220 > Nitrate 0 0 0 > Temp 66 Room Temp room Temp > > I do not have the KH and Gh test kits Order should be here next week. > > I did some test on 50/50 RO and TAP mixed and what changed was/ > 48 Hours + Sitting (bought the water last Saturday) > Ammonia 0 > Nitrate .5 > pH 7.4 > Nitrate 0 > Hardness 110 > > I have a 55 gallon barrel and 5 7 gallon containers that sit out with the > water being treated and never comes straight from the tap. > > Side note I found if you treat your tap water with conditioner it very > drinkable (even after several months) so I have always keep a larger number > of gallons on hand for this to be Dione with. > > I have been talking with my wife and if we can avoid the RO water this would > be best we have to lug the 5 jugs down 2 flights of stairs in order to get > it to the tank. I just want to make the right choice in fish. > > About 3 years ago I did keep Black Neons in a 10 gallon tank with just tap > water and they lived about 3 years until we went on vacation and I'm really > not sure what happen but 5 of the 7 died. The 55 gallon has always giving me > problems. I replace the filter with a better canister filter and still have > the bio wheel on the back. The tank broke so it's new and I spent a great > deal of time washing the ricks to make sure nothing was in there. > > Anyhow more info with my tap water base line. I do not have an issue using > RO if needed. I have really missed fish keeping and want to do it right this > go round. > > Robb > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@> > wrote: > > > > OK. Have you done a tap water baseline test yet... or just your tank > > water testing? If you haven't, please do the 48 hour tap water > > baseline... of just your tap water with your dechlor added so we can > > know what your tap water is going to be like. > > > > I know you've mentioned adding RO water to the tank... or maybe not... > > so I'm just not sure of which numbers are your "real" 48 hour tap > > water baseline numbers.. or if you've done this yet. > > > > The numbers you mention below show 0.0ppm for nitrite and I know you > > mentioned that your tap water has 0.5ppm of nitrite so I'm guessing > > these are your tank readings.. which are good to know, but when > > fishless cycling a tank, the numbers are not going to be the same as > > your tap water baseline or once you add fish, plants, etc., to the > > tank. If you were to test the pH right after adding your 4-5ppm of > > ammonia, your pH would likely be much higher since the added ammonia is > going to change the pH. > > > > It's good to see these numbers but I thought you mentioned your pH > > being much higher than 7.4 originally. If your baseline pH is 7.4, > > then you will be fine with a VERY LARGE variety of fish. Most fish > > easily tolerate 6.8 to > > 7.4 pH levels. It's when your baseline is a lot lower or higher that > > you have to start being more picky about your fish that you keep. > > > > Let us know your tap water baseline numbers and I'm glad you are > > leaning away from the added RO water. It seems like a good idea at > > first but like you said, it can end up being a major detraction at > > some point in the future and you may end up putting off tank > > maintenance if you aren't able to get to the store for RO water and that's > not a good thing either. > > > > You mentioned Angelfish but in all this talk, I forget what size tank > > you have. Angelfish grow to be BIG fish (over 6" long and over 6" > > tall so they have the body mass of a much larger standard shaped > > fish.. probably comparable to a 12"+ long standard shaped fish) so you > > would need a decent sized tank to keep Angelfish and other fish. Here > > is the Mongabay profile on Angelfish. > > http://fish.mongabay.com/angelfish.htm You'll have to scroll down to > > the middle for the profile on P. scalare since that is the species > > closest to what you'll find commonly in stores today. The P. altum > species grows much larger. You'll see under "Water"... > > > > WATER: pH 5-7.5 (6.5), 1-20 dH (5), 75-82°F (24-28°C) > > > > So.. Angelfish live naturally in water between pH 5-7.5 with the most > > common being in 6.5. They live naturally in water with a hardness of > > 1-20 dH with the most common being 5. > > > > Of course, man-bred Angelfish are being bred and raised in water > > parameters that might be way outside their natural waters so they may > > do fine in your tap water baseline. Further, if you go with a planted > > tank, as the ecology takes over, your GH and KH will be lower in your > > tank than your tap as all of the life forms (fish, plants, inverts, > > microbiological's, etc.) will use up the elements that make up your GH > > and KH as part of sustaining their existence. Given all of this, > > there's no reason you cannot try one or more Angelfish, although a > > single Angelfish would give you more room for other fish and you > > wouldn't have to worry about getting a pair or two males that might cause > havoc and chaos in your tank. > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles > > referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically > > under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] > > On Behalf Of robbrouse > > Sent: Friday, August 21, 2009 3:21 PM > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Nitrite. > > > > My GH is 11 and KH is 4 (had a friend bring over his test kit) > > > > I'm thinking of > > 4 Grouami's 1 male and 3 females) > > 4 to 6 Cordores Cat fish > > I like Black Neons Tetra's but from what I was reading not really a > > good match with the other fish. > > > > I was also thinking about maybe 4 or 5 Green or Tiger Barbs. > > > > Would this be a good match in my tap water. > > > > Ammonia 0 > > Nitrite 0 > > Nitrate 10 > > Ph 7.4 > > GH 11 > > KH 4 > > > > I can drop the hardness to 7 doing a 2 Tap 1 RO mixture, but with cold > > weather around the corner I can just see the hassle of getting water > > from the store. > > > > My wife wants angel Fish they site you talked about talks about much > > softer water have you heard of angel fish living in harder water? > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" > > <GoldLenny@> > > wrote: > > > > > > Just does the tank daily with 4-5ppm of ammonia. Test it 12 hours > later. > > > If the numbers are 0.0 for ammonia and nitrite, then your tank is > > > fully cycled. Dosing twice daily at that point might be a good > > > thing to keep it fully cycled so that the lack of ammonia/nitrite > > > for that > > > 12 hour period could cause some of the bacteria to start dying off. > > > > > > When you bring home your fish, do a 90% PWC, then slowly acclimate > > > the fish to the tanks water parameters. > > > > > > Did you ever decide on what kind of fish you were going to get? > > > > > > Were you going to stick to your original plan of using 50% RO water > > > or go with fish that like your naturally hard and higher pH tap water? > > > I'd go with the natural water parameters so that I could continue to > > > use my Python Water Changer hooked right to my tap water faucet when > > > doing my PWC's. I NEVER want to go back to using buckets ever > > > again... although I still keep them around in case of roof leaks > > > from a hurricane. LOL > > > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles > > > referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, > > > alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) > > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] > > > On Behalf Of robbrouse > > > Sent: Friday, August 21, 2009 1:08 PM > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Nitrite. > > > > > > Very good to know. OK heres the reading as of toady. > > > > > > Ammonia 0 > > > Nitrite 0 > > > Nitrate 10 > > > Ph 7.4 > > > hardness 220 > > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 42837	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 8/22/2009
Subject: Re: Nitrite.

I was thinking more about your tap water and how you said it tastes really bad after being stored in a container but when you added your dechlor to it, it stored long term with no adverse tastes. I'm wondering if you might not have one or more heavy metal issues with your tap water that might be causing this bad taste. Most dechlor products also treat for heavy metals which would explain why the dechlor might stop the heavy metal from reacting in the stored water. If I was you, I would ask your local water utility about this or have your water tested by your County Agent or a local lab. Your local utility should also publish an annual report that details your water quality and often these can be found online. My blog article about "Chlorine-Chloramine Information" has links to give you more info on water quality issues. The reason for getting your individual water tested would show if there is any kind of contamination between the utilities nearest testing station and your tap. OK.. I now understand how you had the hardness test as a separate test kit. It sounds like your hardness test kit is still accurate since you tested 220ppm and your friends GH kit tested 12 dH (degree of Hardness). Each dH is equal to 17.9ppm (18 for simplicity) so if you multiply 12 x 18 = 216ppm so your old kit was right on. I would keep using it for the GH testing in the future and keep the API GH test kit sealed until you run out of your old kit.. or if your old kit starts to give suspicious readings. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of robbrouse Sent: Saturday, August 22, 2009 10:38 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Nitrite. Thanks you very much for the info about the water conditioner. I will not be doing that anymore. The bad part about my tap water if it sits for 48 hours or so the taste and smell is not good at all. So I'll just go back to the Brita filters and do it that way. Now the master kit I bought from Petsmart is the API kit. http://aquariumpharm.com/Products/Product.aspx?ProductID=67 I ordered this GH and KH test from Big Al's http://aquariumpharm.com/Products/Product.aspx?ProductID=74 The water hardness kit is a old Test kit I bough many years ago and I've been using in that kit is the water hardness and it a 3 bottle test kit so yes my hardness Levels might not be totally right. I have a friend come over with a Tetra Master kit and the KH was 3 and the GH was 12 from the tank, it was all the tests I did. Here is a link to that one. http://www.tetra-fish.com/sites/tetrafish/catalog/productdetail.aspx?id=1276 &cid=242 So like I said all the other test were done with a kit that were manufactured this year and the hardness test was done by one in the late 90's I read someone those test are pretty good for ever. The RO water tested at 0 hardness. Like I stated before I do not want to use RO if i can help it can be a real pain getting waters and I'm worried my fish will suffer. Answer to another question you asked I have a 55 gallon tank. --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@...> wrote: > > Robb said: Side note I found if you treat your tap water with > conditioner it very drinkable (even after several months) so I have > always keep a larger number of gallons on hand for this to be Dione with. > > Robb, > > If I'm reading the above paragraph correctly, you are treating your > water with your aquarium dechlor product for later use as drinking > water? If you are saying that, I think you should refrain from that > practice. Most of the MSDS (Safety Data Sheets) on dechlor products > show that at least one of the common chemicals in all dechlors is not > good for human consumption. This is also why aquarium kept fish are > not suitable for human consumption. I guess in an emergency, it's > better than no water at all but I would just bottle regular tap water > and not use a dechlor product. That's what I do down here in > preparation for hurricanes. And then I stuff my freezer and > refrigerator with these bottles to keep the fridge frozen and/or cold > in the event of an extended power outage. I now have a generator but you never know when it might break down. > > Now that I have read your last message, I remember and realize you do > have a new test kit from PetsMart... just not the GH and KH test kit. > Which brand did you get since the ones I am familiar with do not have > a hardness test as part of the main kit... at least not the API Master > Test Kit. The Tetra-Laborette kit from Walmart.com has the GH and KH > kits but not a nitrate kit so I'm not sure which brand you purchased > that has the five tests you list in your Tap Water Baseline numbers below. > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles > referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically > under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) > > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] > On Behalf Of robbrouse > Sent: Friday, August 21, 2009 5:09 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Nitrite. > > TAP WATER BASE LINE > > TAP dechlor 24 Hours 48 Hours > Ammonia 0 0 0 0 > Nitrite .5 .5 .5 > pH 7.8 7.5 7.5 (between 7.4 & 7.6) > Hardness 220 220 220 > Nitrate 0 0 0 > Temp 66 Room Temp room Temp > > I do not have the KH and Gh test kits Order should be here next week. > > I did some test on 50/50 RO and TAP mixed and what changed was/ > 48 Hours + Sitting (bought the water last Saturday) > Ammonia 0 > Nitrate .5 > pH 7.4 > Nitrate 0 > Hardness 110 > > I have a 55 gallon barrel and 5 7 gallon containers that sit out with > the water being treated and never comes straight from the tap. > > Side note I found if you treat your tap water with conditioner it very > drinkable (even after several months) so I have always keep a larger > number of gallons on hand for this to be Dione with. > > I have been talking with my wife and if we can avoid the RO water this > would be best we have to lug the 5 jugs down 2 flights of stairs in > order to get it to the tank. I just want to make the right choice in fish. > > About 3 years ago I did keep Black Neons in a 10 gallon tank with just > tap water and they lived about 3 years until we went on vacation and > I'm really not sure what happen but 5 of the 7 died. The 55 gallon has > always giving me problems. I replace the filter with a better canister > filter and still have the bio wheel on the back. The tank broke so > it's new and I spent a great deal of time washing the ricks to make sure nothing was in there. > > Anyhow more info with my tap water base line. I do not have an issue > using RO if needed. I have really missed fish keeping and want to do > it right this go round. > > Robb > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" > <GoldLenny@> > wrote: > > > > OK. Have you done a tap water baseline test yet... or just your > > tank water testing? If you haven't, please do the 48 hour tap water > > baseline... of just your tap water with your dechlor added so we can > > know what your tap water is going to be like. > > > > I know you've mentioned adding RO water to the tank... or maybe not... > > so I'm just not sure of which numbers are your "real" 48 hour tap > > water baseline numbers.. or if you've done this yet. > > > > The numbers you mention below show 0.0ppm for nitrite and I know you > > mentioned that your tap water has 0.5ppm of nitrite so I'm guessing > > these are your tank readings.. which are good to know, but when > > fishless cycling a tank, the numbers are not going to be the same as > > your tap water baseline or once you add fish, plants, etc., to the > > tank. If you were to test the pH right after adding your 4-5ppm of > > ammonia, your pH would likely be much higher since the added ammonia > > is > going to change the pH. > > > > It's good to see these numbers but I thought you mentioned your pH > > being much higher than 7.4 originally. If your baseline pH is 7.4, > > then you will be fine with a VERY LARGE variety of fish. Most fish > > easily tolerate 6.8 to > > 7.4 pH levels. It's when your baseline is a lot lower or higher > > that you have to start being more picky about your fish that you keep. > > > > Let us know your tap water baseline numbers and I'm glad you are > > leaning away from the added RO water. It seems like a good idea at > > first but like you said, it can end up being a major detraction at > > some point in the future and you may end up putting off tank > > maintenance if you aren't able to get to the store for RO water and > > that's > not a good thing either. > > > > You mentioned Angelfish but in all this talk, I forget what size > > tank you have. Angelfish grow to be BIG fish (over 6" long and over 6" > > tall so they have the body mass of a much larger standard shaped > > fish.. probably comparable to a 12"+ long standard shaped fish) so > > you would need a decent sized tank to keep Angelfish and other fish. > > Here is the Mongabay profile on Angelfish. > > http://fish.mongabay.com/angelfish.htm You'll have to scroll down > > to the middle for the profile on P. scalare since that is the > > species closest to what you'll find commonly in stores today. The > > P. altum > species grows much larger. You'll see under "Water"... > > > > WATER: pH 5-7.5 (6.5), 1-20 dH (5), 75-82°F (24-28°C) > > > > So.. Angelfish live naturally in water between pH 5-7.5 with the > > most common being in 6.5. They live naturally in water with a > > hardness of 1-20 dH with the most common being 5. > > > > Of course, man-bred Angelfish are being bred and raised in water > > parameters that might be way outside their natural waters so they > > may do fine in your tap water baseline. Further, if you go with a > > planted tank, as the ecology takes over, your GH and KH will be > > lower in your tank than your tap as all of the life forms (fish, > > plants, inverts, microbiological's, etc.) will use up the elements > > that make up your GH and KH as part of sustaining their existence. > > Given all of this, there's no reason you cannot try one or more > > Angelfish, although a single Angelfish would give you more room for > > other fish and you wouldn't have to worry about getting a pair or > > two males that might cause > havoc and chaos in your tank. > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles > > referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, > > alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] > > On Behalf Of robbrouse > > Sent: Friday, August 21, 2009 3:21 PM > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Nitrite. > > > > My GH is 11 and KH is 4 (had a friend bring over his test kit) > > > > I'm thinking of > > 4 Grouami's 1 male and 3 females) > > 4 to 6 Cordores Cat fish > > I like Black Neons Tetra's but from what I was reading not really a > > good match with the other fish. > > > > I was also thinking about maybe 4 or 5 Green or Tiger Barbs. > > > > Would this be a good match in my tap water. > > > > Ammonia 0 > > Nitrite 0 > > Nitrate 10 > > Ph 7.4 > > GH 11 > > KH 4 > > > > I can drop the hardness to 7 doing a 2 Tap 1 RO mixture, but with > > cold weather around the corner I can just see the hassle of getting > > water from the store. > > > > My wife wants angel Fish they site you talked about talks about much > > softer water have you heard of angel fish living in harder water? > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" > > <GoldLenny@> > > wrote: > > > > > > Just does the tank daily with 4-5ppm of ammonia. Test it 12 hours > later. > > > If the numbers are 0.0 for ammonia and nitrite, then your tank is > > > fully cycled. Dosing twice daily at that point might be a good > > > thing to keep it fully cycled so that the lack of ammonia/nitrite > > > for that > > > 12 hour period could cause some of the bacteria to start dying off. > > > > > > When you bring home your fish, do a 90% PWC, then slowly acclimate > > > the fish to the tanks water parameters. > > > > > > Did you ever decide on what kind of fish you were going to get? > > > > > > Were you going to stick to your original plan of using 50% RO > > > water or go with fish that like your naturally hard and higher pH tap water? > > > I'd go with the natural water parameters so that I could continue > > > to use my Python Water Changer hooked right to my tap water faucet > > > when doing my PWC's. I NEVER want to go back to using buckets > > > ever again... although I still keep them around in case of roof > > > leaks from a hurricane. LOL > > > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles > > > referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, > > > alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, > > > Month) > > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] > > > On Behalf Of robbrouse > > > Sent: Friday, August 21, 2009 1:08 PM > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Nitrite. > > > > > > Very good to know. OK heres the reading as of toady. > > > > > > Ammonia 0 > > > Nitrite 0 > > > Nitrate 10 > > > Ph 7.4 > > > hardness 220

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 42838	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 8/23/2009
Subject: Article - Freshwater Aquarium Lighting

I came across this article that has some good information in it covering aquarium lighting. http://www.aquaworldaquarium.com/Articles/TonyGriffitts/FreshwaterAquari umLighting.htm http://tinyurl.com/nl7y5q \\Steve//

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 42839	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 8/23/2009
Subject: Article - Focus on Community Oddballs

Oddballs are fish that are often not very colorful, don't look very much like a fish, perhaps, and often are predators or have diets that are hard to meet in a typical aquarium setting. People keep them for many reasons, mainly their behavior is very interesting. The fact is, though, that many of these oddball fish grow to a large size, not suitable for the typical home aquarium environment. However, there are a number that are available that do not grow more than 6" in length, and can be easily kept in a 55 gallon, or larger aquarium. This article mentions several that you may be interested in keeping in your tanks, but, I would urge you to do further research on the fish mentioned to ensure it will fit in your environment. http://www.practicalfishkeeping.co.uk/pfk/pages/show_article.php?article _id=698 http://tinyurl.com/mw4vag \\Steve//

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 42840	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 8/23/2009
Subject: Mystery snail eggs

Not sure if I should be excited or not, guess I'll wait until all the babies hatch and start to grow up before I see how over populated I get on purple mystery snails, LOL. The eggs were laid last night sometime, so I have some time to wait. Is there anything I should do for the eggs besides not get them wet? LOL. Thanks, Amber

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 42841	From: goldlenny_blogspot	Date: 8/23/2009
Subject: Re: Nitrate (Long post)

Here is a website that \\Steve// found that has a good article on some of the adverse health effects of long-term exposure to excessive nitrates so I thought I'd add that link to this thread. http://www.aquaworldaquarium.com/Articles/TonyGriffitts/AdverseAffectofNitrateontheAquarium.htm Lenny Vasbinder http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Steve Szabo" <steve@...> wrote: There does seem to be a lot of unnecessary concern of nitrate levels expressed by people on this list for relatively low levels of nitrate. Nitrate is the end product of the ammonia cycle that occurs in every tank. There is no easy way to naturally remove nitrate without the use of a setup that uses anaerobic bacteria to reduce nitrate to its components. The usual method of deal with nitrate is water changes and the addition of live plants (which includes algal growth). At what level should one really become concerned about the level of nitrates in the aquarium. A level of 1000 ppm is definitely a concern, since everything dies. So we need to go lower than that. 500 ppm is still of definite concern. Many animals and plants will die at this level also, but some will live, though not well, as they will be subject to long-term effects of nitrate, such as hole-in-head disease and the erosion of the lateral line. Some plants also will not survive this level of nitrates. At 200 ppm, the effects of nitrate will be more long term than immediate. Again, we would be looking at such things as later line disease and hole-in-head as a result. Going lower will help reduce the effects. At 150 ppm, again, the effects are long term. Going even lower, long term effects are still present. Ideally, one would wish to reduce nitrate levels to less than 20 ppm, but immediate action is not called for until you reach a number of more than 150 ppm. (please do note that figures for a marine aquarium are very much different, and action is called for when nitrate is measured in the single digits of ppm. In a marine environment, it is possible to reduce nitrates to immeasurable levels through the use of foam fractioners, which do not work well in fresh water.) So, you notice that your nitrates are rising, or at a high level. One can simply panic and do immediate large water changes to reduce the level of nitrates. However, doing this fails to discover and remedy the core cause of the high level of nitrates. Unless you are getting reading over 150 ppm of nitrate, you do have some time to do investigative work to discover and remedy the cause of the nitrates, while your regular water changes should help you reduce the level. Where does nitrate come from? Nitrate is the end product of the ammonia cycle as we follow it in the aquarium. Ammonia is produced as a waste product by the animals you have living in your tank. It can also be produced by dead and decaying animals and plants as well as food added to the aquarium. If you are using fertilizer for your plants, this may also be a source of ammonia. You need to reduce the sources of ammonia. Feeding less will help reduce the level. Most of us feed our fish too well. A day of fasting may help the health of your fish, as well as reducing the amount fed each day. (Raising fry is a whole other ball of wax, which I will not be covering here, but to get quick growth you do want to ensure they are well fed.) If there is left over food when you are feeding, you will need to reduce the amount of food you give to your fish, until there is no left-overs in the tank. Until this is remedied, you will want to wait a while after feeding the fish, then siphon off the left-overs. If you are fertilizing your live plants, you will want to reduce or stop the fertilization of the plants or start adding only the trace elements your plants may need for good growth and avoid a fertilizer that contain nitrogenous products. Also look for and remove any dead materials from your aquarium. Likely, if this is a fish, you'll do it rather rapidly. If it is plant material, then you will need to, perhaps, do this on a daily basis. Algae poses a particular problem. Removal of algae will reduce the capacity of your aquarium to remove nitrates, but then, it is also difficult to know when to remove it because it may be dead or simply another form of algae. It may be best to follow your aesthetic sense and remove what does not appeal to you, and remove any that is not green. Those of you that have snails in your aquarium are faced with a sometimes difficult decision--is the snail dead or is it alive? Tough to tell sometimes. However, if you have a nitrate problem, it may be well to take the conservative course of action and remove any snails you have doubts about, either to dispose of or to place in another environment. Throughout this entire process, you will need to keep an eye on the progress you are making. Go back to daily testing of your ammonia, nitrite and nitrate levels. Also test your tap water, which could be another source of nitrates in your aquarium. The EPA has a regulation that states that drinking water should not contain more than 10 ppm of nitrate. However, from reports of aquarists around the country, not all water companies are meeting this requirement. Also, if you are using well water, your nitrates may be high, especially when the aquifer is in agricultural parts of the country. (Our well fertilized lawns and gardens can also have an effect on the nitrate level of aquifers, but most research has pointed to agriculture as a large culprit.) If your water is starting with unacceptable levels of nitrate, you will need to look into means to reduce the nitrate before the water reaches the aquarium. This is usually done with chemical adsorption products. If your nitrate level still does not lower after doing all this, you will need to look at some other aspects of your aquarium. I have mentioned live plants in this discussion, but I am aware that not all people utilize live plants in their aquariums. There may be practical reasons for this, like the vegetarian habits of your fish prevent the growth of plant s to any great extent, and may reduce the number of plants you have, your fish may be diggers that uproot plants, etc. Your tank may simply be overcrowded with fish, and be overloading the biological processes that would normally handle such situations. In the former situation, you may want to utilize the marine idea of a refugarium, where there is a separate tank that water flows through that has plants to pull out the "bad stuff" from the water, with water from the main tank run through the filtration system into the refugarium and back into the main tank. You may also wish to investigate plants that may be immune to the predation of your fish. As for overcrowding, well, you simply need to reduce the numbers of fish that are present in the tank. You may set up more aquariums to house them or give them to friends who would like them. You may even be able to bring them back to you LFS for credit. Another source may be a decoration that has recently been added to your tank that is leaching substances into your water as it 'cures' in your tank. Removal of this object will show a quick and drastic reduction with your next water change. Should this be the case, you'll need to either cure the item outside the tank, or do without inside the tank. Also, not usual, but, perhaps not as unusual as we may like to think, there may be an outside force acting upon the tank, like something some one has added to the tank without your knowledge. One of the kids could have put something in the tank without your knowledge (and you may never know if the youngin' expects they'll get a punishment for admitting it) or an adult at a party may have added something just o see what the fish will do. This kind of thing can be the devil to track down, and the influence will abate with time. What ever you need to do, don't panic. Take things slowly and try to identify the cause of the problem. Your fish will allow you time to fix things. Should you be keeping marine fish, well, as I mentioned earlier, we are in a whole other ballpark there, and you may need to take more rapid action to avoid losing animals. Marine animals have less a tolerance for nitrate than freshwater do, and I would advise you to find a guru near you that can be of assistance (I'm not a marine person, nor do I play one on TV, and do not claim to have any special knowledge of marine topics.) Don't buy into any 'magic' cures for what ails your tank. They may do more harm than good. Thank you for your patience reading this long, and somewhat involved post. \\Steve// "Puritanism: The haunting fear that someone, somewhere may be happy." -- H. L. Mencken

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 42842	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 8/23/2009
Subject: Re: Article - Freshwater Aquarium Lighting

That page has a link at the bottom about Nitrates http://www.aquaworldaquarium.com/Articles/TonyGriffitts/AdverseAffectofNitra teontheAquarium.htm that is a nice compliment to your long Nitrate article that you wrote out here a while back. http://pets.groups.yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife/message/13064 It looks like that entire website is probably full of good info from the couple of articles that I have glanced over so far. Good find! Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Steve Szabo Sent: Sunday, August 23, 2009 5:46 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Article - Freshwater Aquarium Lighting I came across this article that has some good information in it covering aquarium lighting. http://www.aquaworldaquarium.com/Articles/TonyGriffitts/FreshwaterAquariumLi ghting.htm http://tinyurl.com/nl7y5q \\Steve// ------------------------------------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. 74/`7.88.><((((:>.74/`7.88.74/`7.8><((((:> 8.74/`7.8. , .74/`7..><((((:> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <:((((><.74/`7.88.74/`7.8<:((((><8.74/`7.8. , .74/`7..<:((((><74/`7.88. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the home page. Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com to receive the digest, which includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com for the No E-Mail option where you will still be able to read messages on the group and post replies. Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com to receive individual e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 42843	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 8/23/2009
Subject: Mudskippers

My LFS has mudskippers in stock, I had never seen them before, they have cute faces though ;) LOL. I don't want to pay 18.99 for one of them though, so I just admired from a distance, with my luck the mudskipper would jump out of my tank anyways, LOL. Either way though, they are very neat to watch. Amber

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 42844	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 8/23/2009
Subject: Re: Mystery snail eggs

Just follow the directions on Applesnail.net, which I'm sure you are already doing. Hopefully they are fertilized. I guess you'll be on Aquabid soon selling your own "Alaskan Purple Mystery Snails". Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Amber Berglund Sent: Sunday, August 23, 2009 12:40 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Mystery snail eggs Not sure if I should be excited or not, guess I'll wait until all the babies hatch and start to grow up before I see how over populated I get on purple mystery snails, LOL. The eggs were laid last night sometime, so I have some time to wait. Is there anything I should do for the eggs besides not get them wet? LOL. Thanks, Amber

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 42845	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 8/23/2009
Subject: Re: Mudskippers

These are brackish to SW amphibious fish, not FW. I hope your LFS isn't selling them as a FW species. Let them know! There's not much written on most of the common aquarium sites about these as they should be kept in a Brackish Water Paludarium, which would have to be a combination of these two articles in order to set this type of tank up. http://badmanstropicalfish.com/paludarium/paludarium.html http://badmanstropicalfish.com/brackish/brackish.html Here is Wiki's article on these fish. It does look well referenced so it may be a good resource. Read the External Links and Reference Links for more info. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mudskipper Here is Badman's profile on one of the species of Mudskippers, Periophthalmus argentilineatus. http://badmanstropicalfish.com/profiles/profile35.html Now... go find room for another 55G and set up this Brackish Water Paludarium. ;-) Take lots of pics. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Amber Berglund Sent: Sunday, August 23, 2009 1:42 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Mudskippers My LFS has mudskippers in stock, I had never seen them before, they have cute faces though ;) LOL. I don't want to pay 18.99 for one of them though, so I just admired from a distance, with my luck the mudskipper would jump out of my tank anyways, LOL. Either way though, they are very neat to watch. Amber

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 42846	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 8/23/2009
Subject: Re: Mudskippers

LOL, I wish I could get another 55 for the little guy but the hubby would yell at me ;) They are very neat little critters though. Thanks for all the info Lenny, Amber Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > > > These are brackish to SW amphibious fish, not FW. I hope your LFS isn't > selling them as a FW species. Let them know! > > There's not much written on most of the common aquarium sites about > these as > they should be kept in a Brackish Water Paludarium, which would have > to be a > combination of these two articles in order to set this type of tank up. > > http://badmanstropicalfish.com/paludarium/paludarium.html > <http://badmanstropicalfish.com/paludarium/paludarium.html> > > http://badmanstropicalfish.com/brackish/brackish.html > <http://badmanstropicalfish.com/brackish/brackish.html> > > Here is Wiki's article on these fish. It does look well referenced so it > may be a good resource. Read the External Links and Reference Links for > more info. > > http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mudskipper > <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mudskipper> > > Here is Badman's profile on one of the species of Mudskippers, > Periophthalmus argentilineatus. > > http://badmanstropicalfish.com/profiles/profile35.html > <http://badmanstropicalfish.com/profiles/profile35.html> > > Now... go find room for another 55G and set up this Brackish Water > Paludarium. ;-) Take lots of pics. > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right > side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On > Behalf Of Amber Berglund > Sent: Sunday, August 23, 2009 1:42 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Subject: [AquaticLife] Mudskippers > > My LFS has mudskippers in stock, I had never seen them before, they have > cute faces though ;) LOL. > I don't want to pay 18.99 for one of them though, so I just admired from a > distance, with my luck the mudskipper would jump out of my tank anyways, > LOL. > Either way though, they are very neat to watch. > > Amber > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 42847	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 8/23/2009
Subject: Re: Mudskippers

You need to set up a wall rack system (or have hubby build one out of angle iron) so you could have three or four 55's in the same amount of space. ;-) He could use this as a design or just buy one of these. http://www.aquaticplantcentral.com/forumapc/aquascaping/27772-high-rise-aqua scape-3-tank-rack.html Since I can't have more tanks right now, I have to live vicariously through others. LOL Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Amber Berglund Sent: Sunday, August 23, 2009 2:54 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Mudskippers LOL, I wish I could get another 55 for the little guy but the hubby would yell at me ;) They are very neat little critters though. Thanks for all the info Lenny, Amber Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > > > These are brackish to SW amphibious fish, not FW. I hope your LFS > isn't selling them as a FW species. Let them know! > > There's not much written on most of the common aquarium sites about > these as they should be kept in a Brackish Water Paludarium, which > would have to be a combination of these two articles in order to set > this type of tank up. > > http://badmanstropicalfish.com/paludarium/paludarium.html > <http://badmanstropicalfish.com/paludarium/paludarium.html> > > http://badmanstropicalfish.com/brackish/brackish.html > <http://badmanstropicalfish.com/brackish/brackish.html> > > Here is Wiki's article on these fish. It does look well referenced so > it may be a good resource. Read the External Links and Reference Links > for more info. > > http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mudskipper > <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mudskipper> > > Here is Badman's profile on one of the species of Mudskippers, > Periophthalmus argentilineatus. > > http://badmanstropicalfish.com/profiles/profile35.html > <http://badmanstropicalfish.com/profiles/profile35.html> > > Now... go find room for another 55G and set up this Brackish Water > Paludarium. ;-) Take lots of pics. > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> (Links to any articles referenced in > above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels > and also under Archives by Year, Month) > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On Behalf Of Amber Berglund > Sent: Sunday, August 23, 2009 1:42 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Subject: [AquaticLife] Mudskippers > > My LFS has mudskippers in stock, I had never seen them before, they > have cute faces though ;) LOL. > I don't want to pay 18.99 for one of them though, so I just admired > from a distance, with my luck the mudskipper would jump out of my tank > anyways, LOL. > Either way though, they are very neat to watch. > > Amber

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 42848	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 8/23/2009
Subject: Discussion On Gravel Vacuuming

I've been reading some of the articles on the site that \\Steve// referenced in another thread and came across this page about Water Changes. While most of the info I've read is good, I tend to seriously disagree with one of the Tip's found on the following page. http://www.aquaworldaquarium.com/Articles/TonyGriffitts/Water_Changes.htm Tip - Gravel Vacuuming Never do a heavy gravel vacuuming on an aquarium that does not use an Under Gravel filter. This can upset the ecological balance of a sand or gravel bed causing an ammonia and nitrite spike a few days later. (END SNIP) Now... my personal experience and feelings on this is diametrically opposite the above tip. I truly believe that deep and heavy gravel vacuuming should be done as part of regular and frequent tank maintenance, especially in a non-planted tank. There is simply no logical reason to leave all of that decaying detritus/mulm in the gravel in our tanks. Vacuuming the detritus/mulm out of the gravel will NOT remove any of the bacteria that are living on the surface areas of the gravel although it will remove any parasites and/or bacteria that are living off of and in the detritus and mulm... which are not typically nitrifying bacteria. Since most of the good bacteria (nitrifying) live in the filter system media and not on the gravel (except with UGF's where the good bacteria do live on the gravel), I'm not sure where heavy gravel vacuuming would cause an ammonia/nitrite spike (also called a mini-cycle) and I have NEVER seen this happen with any of my tanks and I almost always heavy vacuum my gravel, except in my Cherry Shrimp tank where I have to be extra careful due to the number of baby shrimp crawling around. If anything, removing all of this detritus/mulm would reduce the amount of ammonia and carbonic acid that would be put out by the decaying detritus/mulm, thereby lowering the bioload on the tank. What do you all think???? Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month)

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 42849	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 8/23/2009
Subject: API's Nitrate Test Kit IMPORTANT INFORMATION

http://www.aquaworldaquarium.com/Articles/TonyGriffitts/Water_Changes.htm has the following TIP listed on the page. I think this is pretty good information for users of the API Master Test Kit and probably other kits that use liquid reagents. I've always shaken my bottles, even if the instructions do not say so but I probably am also guilty of not shaking the #2 bottle for as long as this tip suggests.... Tip - Word of Warning Aquarium Pharmaceuticals liquid nitrate test kit is a very popular test kit, because it is very easy to use. The instructions that come with the test kit say to shake bottle #2 30 seconds. If you shake bottle #2 only 30 seconds you are likely to get a false low nitrate reading. I recommend you shake the bottle #2 for two minutes before adding it to the test sample to get a true reading of your nitrate content. I have seen a lot of reef hobbyist have problems with their tank because their nitrate was in reality off the chart when their test (following the instructions) showed near 0 ppm. (END SNIP) Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month)

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 42850	From: pam andress	Date: 8/23/2009
Subject: Re: Mystery snail eggs

They need to be kept dry and warm and humid to hatch. Takes about 2 weeks. You will notice the clutch change color a bit before hatching. Congrats! Pam Not sure if I should be excited or not, guess I'll wait until all the babies hatch and start to grow up before I see how over populated I get on purple mystery snails, LOL. The eggs were laid last night sometime, so I have some time to wait. Is there anything I should do for the eggs besides not get them wet? LOL. Thanks, Amber [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 42851	From: Dora Smith	Date: 8/23/2009
Subject: Re: [Bulk] [AquaticLife] Discussion On Gravel Vacuuming

Yup. If you don't clean out the lower layers of gravel you can end up with hydrogen sulfide. You don't want that to happen! Moreover, I usually find that the stuff I want to clean up isn't only or necessarily even mainly on the surface. Yours, Dora Smith Austin, TX tiggernut24@... ----- Original Message ----- From: "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@...> To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Sunday, August 23, 2009 4:03 PM Subject: [Bulk] [AquaticLife] Discussion On Gravel Vacuuming I've been reading some of the articles on the site that \\Steve// referenced in another thread and came across this page about Water Changes. While most of the info I've read is good, I tend to seriously disagree with one of the Tip's found on the following page. http://www.aquaworldaquarium.com/Articles/TonyGriffitts/Water_Changes.htm Tip - Gravel Vacuuming Never do a heavy gravel vacuuming on an aquarium that does not use an Under Gravel filter. This can upset the ecological balance of a sand or gravel bed causing an ammonia and nitrite spike a few days later. (END SNIP) Now... my personal experience and feelings on this is diametrically opposite the above tip. I truly believe that deep and heavy gravel vacuuming should be done as part of regular and frequent tank maintenance, especially in a non-planted tank. There is simply no logical reason to leave all of that decaying detritus/mulm in the gravel in our tanks. Vacuuming the detritus/mulm out of the gravel will NOT remove any of the bacteria that are living on the surface areas of the gravel although it will remove any parasites and/or bacteria that are living off of and in the detritus and mulm... which are not typically nitrifying bacteria. Since most of the good bacteria (nitrifying) live in the filter system media and not on the gravel (except with UGF's where the good bacteria do live on the gravel), I'm not sure where heavy gravel vacuuming would cause an ammonia/nitrite spike (also called a mini-cycle) and I have NEVER seen this happen with any of my tanks and I almost always heavy vacuum my gravel, except in my Cherry Shrimp tank where I have to be extra careful due to the number of baby shrimp crawling around. If anything, removing all of this detritus/mulm would reduce the amount of ammonia and carbonic acid that would be put out by the decaying detritus/mulm, thereby lowering the bioload on the tank. What do you all think???? Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) ------------------------------------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the home page. Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com to receive the digest, which includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com for the No E-Mail option where you will still be able to read messages on the group and post replies. Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com to receive individual e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 42852	From: Dana Rasmussen	Date: 8/23/2009
Subject: Re: Discussion On Gravel Vacuuming

> If anything, removing all of this detritus/mulm would reduce the amount of > ammonia and carbonic acid that would be put out by the decaying > detritus/mulm, thereby lowering the bioload on the tank. > > What do you all think???? Certainly for a non-planted tank. On my planted tanks it something of a issue to actually get at the gravel. What I need and have not found is a Python like cleaning tube about 1/2 the diameter of the one they make. And of course it is providing the plants what they need. ----- Dana Rasmussen Seattle

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 42853	From: pkr772	Date: 8/23/2009
Subject: Best Lighting for My Aquarium

I'm looking for a UV/Sunlight bulb for my 20 gallon high tank. I thought maybe someone could help. I have several different plants-wisteria, anacharis, ludwegia(sp?), and a tiger lotust. Is a 15 watt bulb enough for these plants? So far that has been all I can find in the 18" length. Any suggestions are appreciated.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 42854	From: harry perry	Date: 8/23/2009
Subject: Re: Best Lighting for My Aquarium/pkr772

You don't have enough light especially for the Tiger Lotus this is a high light plant . You'll need at least 3 to 4 watts per gallon especially on this high tank. Also it would be better if your lights were on a timer for 12 hours a day. Harry --- On Sun, 8/23/09, pkr772 <tkr772@...> wrote: From: pkr772 <tkr772@...> Subject: [AquaticLife] Best Lighting for My Aquarium To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Date: Sunday, August 23, 2009, 6:01 PM   I'm looking for a UV/Sunlight bulb for my 20 gallon high tank. I thought maybe someone could help. I have several different plants-wisteria, anacharis, ludwegia(sp? ), and a tiger lotust. Is a 15 watt bulb enough for these plants? So far that has been all I can find in the 18" length. Any suggestions are appreciated. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 42855	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 8/23/2009
Subject: Re: Best Lighting for My Aquarium/pkr772

If you only have a single fluorescent bulb fixture, you'll need to upgrade your light fixture. CFL's (compact fluorescent lighting) would give you a brighter light (more lumens.. usually 1.5 to 2X more lumens per watt than standard fluorescent bulbs) so it would do a better job of the light reaching down to the bottom of your tank. The $71.99, 20" fixture on this page http://www.drsfostersmith.com/product/prod_display.cfm?pcatid=11418 uses 1 - 40W CFL SunPaq bulb which puts out up to 3X the lumens of a standard fluorescent bulb so this would probably suffice, even though the 40W bulb only sounds like 2 watts per gallon, it's more about the lumens than the watts when crossing over the different types of bulbs. With this fixture, you would probably only need 8 hours of lighting per day and this fixture also includes the lunar LED lighting for night time moon-lighting of the tank. Technically, this single 40W CFL would be equal to 120W of standard fluorescent lighting but I think the "up to 3X" is embellishing a little and 1.5 to 2X the lighting is more likely. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of harry perry Sent: Sunday, August 23, 2009 5:37 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Best Lighting for My Aquarium/pkr772 You don't have enough light especially for the Tiger Lotus this is a high light plant . You'll need at least 3 to 4 watts per gallon especially on this high tank. Also it would be better if your lights were on a timer for 12 hours a day. Harry --- On Sun, 8/23/09, pkr772 <tkr772@...> wrote: From: pkr772 <tkr772@...> Subject: [AquaticLife] Best Lighting for My Aquarium To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Date: Sunday, August 23, 2009, 6:01 PM I'm looking for a UV/Sunlight bulb for my 20 gallon high tank. I thought maybe someone could help. I have several different plants-wisteria, anacharis, ludwegia(sp? ), and a tiger lotust. Is a 15 watt bulb enough for these plants? So far that has been all I can find in the 18" length. Any suggestions are appreciated.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 42856	From: Deenerz@aol.com	Date: 8/23/2009
Subject: Re: Mystery snail eggs

-----Original Message----- From: pam andress <pamandress23@...> To: aquaticlife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Sun, Aug 23, 2009 2:08 pm Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Mystery snail eggs They need to be kept dry and warm and humid to hatch. Takes about 2 weeks. You will notice the clutch change color a bit before hatching. Congrats! Pam Not sure if I should be excited or not, guess I'll wait until all the babies hatch and start to grow up before I see how over populated I get on purple mystery snails, LOL. The eggs were laid last night sometime, so I have some time to wait. Is there anything I should do for the eggs besides not get them wet? LOL. Thanks, Amber [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 42857	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 8/23/2009
Subject: Re: Mystery snail eggs

Dry warm and humid... that's a lot of requirements ;) LOL So should I mist the eggs or is that too much humid? Is just being right above the surface of the water enough? Thanks Pam, Amber pam andress wrote: > > > > They need to be kept dry and warm and humid to hatch. Takes about 2 > weeks. You will notice the clutch change color a bit before hatching. > > Congrats! > > Pam > > > Not sure if I should be excited or not, guess I'll wait until all the > babies hatch and start to grow up before I see how over populated I get > on purple mystery snails, LOL. > The eggs were laid last night sometime, so I have some time to wait. Is > there anything I should do for the eggs besides not get them wet? LOL. > > Thanks, > Amber > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 42858	From: bill 1433	Date: 8/23/2009
Subject: Re: Best Lighting for My Aquarium/pkr772

Len is right about this, but one thing you did not mention is what you have now in the way of a cover or hood??? If your going to get into this type of lighting, which is outstanding, you might want to consider a full glass cover for it found here: http://www.drsfostersmith.com/product/prod_display.cfm?pcatid=3790   This combined with the link Len just gave you will work very well.   Bill --- On Sun, 8/23/09, Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@...> wrote: > From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@...> > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Best Lighting for My Aquarium/pkr772 > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Date: Sunday, August 23, 2009, 7:14 PM > If you only have a single fluorescent > bulb fixture, you'll need to upgrade > your light fixture. > > CFL's (compact fluorescent lighting) would give you a > brighter light (more > lumens.. usually 1.5 to 2X more lumens per watt than > standard fluorescent > bulbs) so it would do a better job of the light reaching > down to the bottom > of your tank. > > The $71.99, 20" fixture on this page > http://www.drsfostersmith.com/product/prod_display.cfm?pcatid=11418 > uses 1 - > 40W CFL SunPaq bulb which puts out up to 3X the lumens of a > standard > fluorescent bulb so this would probably suffice, even > though the 40W bulb > only sounds like 2 watts per gallon, it's more about the > lumens than the > watts when crossing over the different types of > bulbs.  With this fixture, > you would probably only need 8 hours of lighting per day > and this fixture > also includes the lunar LED lighting for night time > moon-lighting of the > tank.  Technically, this single 40W CFL would be equal > to 120W of standard > fluorescent lighting but I think the "up to 3X" is > embellishing a little and > 1.5 to 2X the lighting is more likely. > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed > on the right > side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives > by Year, Month) > > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] > On > Behalf Of harry perry > Sent: Sunday, August 23, 2009 5:37 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Best Lighting for My > Aquarium/pkr772 > > You don't have enough light especially for the Tiger Lotus > this is a high > light plant . You'll need at least 3 to 4 watts per gallon > especially on > this high tank. Also it would be better if your lights were > on a timer for > 12 hours a day. > > Harry > > --- On Sun, 8/23/09, pkr772 <tkr772@...> > wrote: > > From: pkr772 <tkr772@...> > Subject: [AquaticLife] Best Lighting for My Aquarium > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Date: Sunday, August 23, 2009, 6:01 PM > >   >                 >   I'm looking for a UV/Sunlight bulb for my 20 gallon > high > tank.  I thought maybe someone could help. I have > several different > plants-wisteria, anacharis, ludwegia(sp? ), and a tiger > lotust.  Is a 15 > watt bulb enough for these plants?  So far that has > been all I can find in > the 18" length.  Any suggestions are appreciated. > > > > > ------------------------------------ > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when > replying, Thank You. > ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> > ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> > PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is > NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of > the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new > subject (was re: old subject)" <- > <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. > , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. > > If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of > unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by > clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the home page.  > > Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com > to receive the digest, which includes up to 25 posts at a > time in a single email > > Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com > for the No E-Mail option where you will still be able to > read messages on the group and post replies. > > Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com > to receive individual e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links > > >     mailto:AquaticLife-fullfeatured@yahoogroups.com > > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 42859	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 8/23/2009
Subject: Re: Mudskippers

Amber, Mudskippers are interesting little creatures (well, maybe not so little, but interesting, nonetheless). You need to create an environment for them that is part water and part land so they can haul their carcasses out of the water when they wish. I believe that most mudskippers are brackish water fish, but would need to check that assumption before stating it flat out. Lenny mentioned a 55 for them, but you need a 6' long tank to better house them. You would also need to keep the land area at least moist for them when they decide it is time to come out of the water. To make it even more interesting, you could become the only person in Alaska to grow a mangrove <g>. Do some reading on the fish, then you can scheme to get another tank, if you decide to give them a whirl. \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Amber Berglund Sent: Sunday, August 23, 2009 2:42 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Mudskippers My LFS has mudskippers in stock, I had never seen them before, they have cute faces though ;) LOL. I don't want to pay 18.99 for one of them though, so I just admired from a distance, with my luck the mudskipper would jump out of my tank anyways, LOL. Either way though, they are very neat to watch. Amber

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 42860	From: pam andress	Date: 8/23/2009
Subject: Re: Mystery snail eggs

Do you have a top on your tank? If so, then that will keep it humid in there. No you don't mist them, you just make sure they stay dry and leave them alone. Pam To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com From: arberglund@... Date: Sun, 23 Aug 2009 15:59:53 -0800 Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Mystery snail eggs Dry warm and humid... that's a lot of requirements ;) LOL So should I mist the eggs or is that too much humid? Is just being right above the surface of the water enough? Thanks Pam, Amber pam andress wrote: > > > > They need to be kept dry and warm and humid to hatch. Takes about 2 > weeks. You will notice the clutch change color a bit before hatching. > > Congrats! > > Pam > > > Not sure if I should be excited or not, guess I'll wait until all the > babies hatch and start to grow up before I see how over populated I get > on purple mystery snails, LOL. > The eggs were laid last night sometime, so I have some time to wait. Is > there anything I should do for the eggs besides not get them wet? LOL. > > Thanks, > Amber > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 42861	From: Gwydryn@aol.com	Date: 8/23/2009
Subject: Re: Mudskippers

In a message dated 8/23/2009 3:43:25 P.M. Central Daylight Time, GoldLenny@... writes: You need to set up a wall rack system (or have hubby build one out of angle iron) so you could have three or four 55's in the same amount of space. ;-) He could use this as a design or just buy one of these. _http://www.aquaticphttp://www.ahttp://www.aqhttp://www.ahttp://www.http://w w_ (http://www.aquaticplantcentral.com/forumapc/aquascaping/27772-high-rise-aqua) scape-3-tank-scape-3-t Since I can't have more tanks right now, I have to live vicariously through others. LOL Lenny Vasbinder Dang it Lenny! STOP!! Now I'm wondering ....heck, staples.com here I go! Enid "Life is not about waiting for the storms to pass...it's about learning how to dance in the rain." [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 42862	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 8/23/2009
Subject: Re: Mystery snail eggs

There is not a top on the tank, so no to that question ;) It's the only tank with a top because I kept knocking the versa tops into the tank and I was getting angry ;) LOL. Amber pam andress wrote: > > > > Do you have a top on your tank? If so, then that will keep it humid in > there. No you don't mist them, you just make sure they stay dry and > leave them alone. > > Pam > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > From: arberglund@... <mailto:arberglund%40gmail.com> > Date: Sun, 23 Aug 2009 15:59:53 -0800 > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Mystery snail eggs > > Dry warm and humid... that's a lot of requirements ;) LOL > So should I mist the eggs or is that too much humid? > Is just being right above the surface of the water enough? > Thanks Pam, > Amber > > pam andress wrote: > > > > > > > > They need to be kept dry and warm and humid to hatch. Takes about 2 > > weeks. You will notice the clutch change color a bit before hatching. > > > > Congrats! > > > > Pam > > > > > > Not sure if I should be excited or not, guess I'll wait until all the > > babies hatch and start to grow up before I see how over populated I get > > on purple mystery snails, LOL. > > The eggs were laid last night sometime, so I have some time to wait. Is > > there anything I should do for the eggs besides not get them wet? LOL. > > > > Thanks, > > Amber > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 42863	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 8/23/2009
Subject: Re: Mystery snail eggs

Mike, I do not see your reply. Did you send prematurely? Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Deenerz@... Sent: Sunday, August 23, 2009 6:57 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Mystery snail eggs -----Original Message----- From: pam andress <pamandress23@...> To: aquaticlife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Sun, Aug 23, 2009 2:08 pm Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Mystery snail eggs They need to be kept dry and warm and humid to hatch. Takes about 2 weeks. You will notice the clutch change color a bit before hatching. Congrats! Pam Not sure if I should be excited or not, guess I'll wait until all the babies hatch and start to grow up before I see how over populated I get on purple mystery snails, LOL. The eggs were laid last night sometime, so I have some time to wait. Is there anything I should do for the eggs besides not get them wet? LOL. Thanks, Amber [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 42864	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 8/23/2009
Subject: Re: Mystery snail eggs

Two words... Saran Wrap (or your brand of choice of plastic wrap). Or even a towel over the top would keep in much of the humidity. OK... maybe that was more than two words. LOL Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Amber Berglund Sent: Sunday, August 23, 2009 9:48 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Mystery snail eggs There is not a top on the tank, so no to that question ;) It's the only tank with a top because I kept knocking the versa tops into the tank and I was getting angry ;) LOL. Amber pam andress wrote: > > > > Do you have a top on your tank? If so, then that will keep it humid in > there. No you don't mist them, you just make sure they stay dry and > leave them alone. > > Pam > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > From: arberglund@... <mailto:arberglund%40gmail.com> > Date: Sun, 23 Aug 2009 15:59:53 -0800 > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Mystery snail eggs > > Dry warm and humid... that's a lot of requirements ;) LOL > So should I mist the eggs or is that too much humid? > Is just being right above the surface of the water enough? > Thanks Pam, > Amber > > pam andress wrote: > > > > > > > > They need to be kept dry and warm and humid to hatch. Takes about 2 > > weeks. You will notice the clutch change color a bit before hatching. > > > > Congrats! > > > > Pam > > > > > > Not sure if I should be excited or not, guess I'll wait until all the > > babies hatch and start to grow up before I see how over populated I get > > on purple mystery snails, LOL. > > The eggs were laid last night sometime, so I have some time to wait. Is > > there anything I should do for the eggs besides not get them wet? LOL. > > > > Thanks, > > Amber > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 42865	From: pam andress	Date: 8/23/2009
Subject: Re: Mystery snail eggs

Deffinately more then 2 words Lenny!!! lol But yes that would help. Pam To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com From: GoldLenny@... Date: Sun, 23 Aug 2009 22:15:27 -0500 Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Mystery snail eggs Two words... Saran Wrap (or your brand of choice of plastic wrap). Or even a towel over the top would keep in much of the humidity. OK... maybe that was more than two words. LOL Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Amber Berglund Sent: Sunday, August 23, 2009 9:48 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Mystery snail eggs There is not a top on the tank, so no to that question ;) It's the only tank with a top because I kept knocking the versa tops into the tank and I was getting angry ;) LOL. Amber pam andress wrote: > > > > Do you have a top on your tank? If so, then that will keep it humid in > there. No you don't mist them, you just make sure they stay dry and > leave them alone. > > Pam > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > From: arberglund@... <mailto:arberglund%40gmail.com> > Date: Sun, 23 Aug 2009 15:59:53 -0800 > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Mystery snail eggs > > Dry warm and humid... that's a lot of requirements ;) LOL > So should I mist the eggs or is that too much humid? > Is just being right above the surface of the water enough? > Thanks Pam, > Amber > > pam andress wrote: > > > > > > > > They need to be kept dry and warm and humid to hatch. Takes about 2 > > weeks. You will notice the clutch change color a bit before hatching. > > > > Congrats! > > > > Pam > > > > > > Not sure if I should be excited or not, guess I'll wait until all the > > babies hatch and start to grow up before I see how over populated I get > > on purple mystery snails, LOL. > > The eggs were laid last night sometime, so I have some time to wait. Is > > there anything I should do for the eggs besides not get them wet? LOL. > > > > Thanks, > > Amber > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 42866	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 8/24/2009
Subject: Changing water parameters

Okay as if I wasn't having enough problems on my own with my tanks my condo association replaced my boiler system a couple of days ago. I didn't think much of it until I did my first water change in my 55 gallon last night, and lost all my danio's. So apparently there is something different about this new boiler system somehow. Oh and all my water turned white overnight, the only losses seem to be the danio's so far, all the guppy's are acting pH shocked so apparently the pH must be different in the new hot water system? Should I do a new tapwater baseline or is it just something that needs to work its way out of the new system? Amber

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 42867	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 8/24/2009
Subject: Re: Changing water parameters

Amber, This is probably something that will work its way out of the system over a period of weeks or a few months. Within the boiler itself, there is a lot of new piping that will eventually leach out some and be coated by minerals in the water. Then you have the outside connections, and the work done to connect the incoming and outgoing pipes. If they were soldered, you may have some flux within the pipes that needs to be washed away, which will happen. If they replaced any external sections of pipe, they will eventually get coated also. Do another baseline test of your water, and test it again prior to each water change. You may find it prudent to skip a water change or two, or vastly reduce the amount of water changed so as not to affect the ecology of your tanks too much. \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Amber Berglund Sent: Monday, August 24, 2009 10:05 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Changing water parameters Okay as if I wasn't having enough problems on my own with my tanks my condo association replaced my boiler system a couple of days ago. I didn't think much of it until I did my first water change in my 55 gallon last night, and lost all my danio's. So apparently there is something different about this new boiler system somehow. Oh and all my water turned white overnight, the only losses seem to be the danio's so far, all the guppy's are acting pH shocked so apparently the pH must be different in the new hot water system? Should I do a new tapwater baseline or is it just something that needs to work its way out of the new system? Amber

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 42868	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 8/24/2009
Subject: Re: Changing water parameters

Quit using the hot water for now... at least for the fish. When refilling the tank(s), simply refill them really slowly with the cold water so that the tank's heater can warm up the tank as needed. Further, slowly refilling them will also give the fish a chance to acclimate to any change in the water temperature. What is your cold water's temperature out of the tap compared to the tank's temperature? Run your baseline testing on your hot, cold and mixed (to tank temp) water and compare them to your previous baseline tests. It could have just been a one-time event where the sediment, scale, etc., from the old boiler had to be flushed out of the lines and your PWC happened to get the crap but you should probably run your hot water for a while... hours maybe???... to flush out the line to your unit. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Amber Berglund Sent: Monday, August 24, 2009 9:05 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Changing water parameters Okay as if I wasn't having enough problems on my own with my tanks my condo association replaced my boiler system a couple of days ago. I didn't think much of it until I did my first water change in my 55 gallon last night, and lost all my danio's. So apparently there is something different about this new boiler system somehow. Oh and all my water turned white overnight, the only losses seem to be the danio's so far, all the guppy's are acting pH shocked so apparently the pH must be different in the new hot water system? Should I do a new tapwater baseline or is it just something that needs to work its way out of the new system? Amber

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 42869	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 8/24/2009
Subject: Re: Changing water parameters

Lenny the last time I didn't use hot water it killed nearly all my fish, even though I very slowly trickled in cold water, my cold water pH is VERY different than my tank pH apparently ;) LOL. I will test before I do anything again though, just to make sure. I waited 2 days before I used the water to do a PWC after they had replaced the pipes and boiler. I was hoping 2 days would be enough to flush the system, apparently it was not. I drastically needed a filter cleaning though as it was not getting enough water through the rena xp4 and was not pushing water through the filter, so I had no choice but to do a filter cleaning, and then refill the tank. Hopefully my danio's and my 1 male guppy loss will be all my losses. It smells like a dead snail though, so I've been searching the tank for a dead snail, so far haven't found one... which makes me wonder just a little ;) LOL. I know there are some more danio's hiding in there too, as I only found 3 out of the 7 that should be in there. I also don't see any swimming... :( Amber Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > > > Quit using the hot water for now... at least for the fish. > > When refilling the tank(s), simply refill them really slowly with the cold > water so that the tank's heater can warm up the tank as needed. Further, > slowly refilling them will also give the fish a chance to acclimate to any > change in the water temperature. What is your cold water's temperature out > of the tap compared to the tank's temperature? > > Run your baseline testing on your hot, cold and mixed (to tank temp) water > and compare them to your previous baseline tests. > > It could have just been a one-time event where the sediment, scale, etc., > from the old boiler had to be flushed out of the lines and your PWC > happened > to get the crap but you should probably run your hot water for a while... > hours maybe???... to flush out the line to your unit. > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right > side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On > Behalf Of Amber Berglund > Sent: Monday, August 24, 2009 9:05 AM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Subject: [AquaticLife] Changing water parameters > > Okay as if I wasn't having enough problems on my own with my tanks my > condo > association replaced my boiler system a couple of days ago. I didn't think > much of it until I did my first water change in my 55 gallon last > night, and > lost all my danio's. So apparently there is something different about this > new boiler system somehow. Oh and all my water turned white overnight, the > only losses seem to be the danio's so far, all the guppy's are acting pH > shocked so apparently the pH must be different in the new hot water > system? > Should I do a new tapwater baseline or is it just something that needs to > work its way out of the new system? > > Amber > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 42870	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 8/24/2009
Subject: Re: Changing water parameters

Thanks Steve, they did replace both the hot and cold water piping, and the whole boiler system, as well as the pipes outside, so there will be a lot of leaching I would assume ;) LOL Amber Steve Szabo wrote: > > > Amber, > > This is probably something that will work its way out of the system over > a period of weeks or a few months. Within the boiler itself, there is a > lot of new piping that will eventually leach out some and be coated by > minerals in the water. Then you have the outside connections, and the > work done to connect the incoming and outgoing pipes. If they were > soldered, you may have some flux within the pipes that needs to be > washed away, which will happen. If they replaced any external sections > of pipe, they will eventually get coated also. > > Do another baseline test of your water, and test it again prior to each > water change. You may find it prudent to skip a water change or two, or > vastly reduce the amount of water changed so as not to affect the > ecology of your tanks too much. > > \\Steve// > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] > On Behalf Of Amber Berglund > Sent: Monday, August 24, 2009 10:05 AM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Subject: [AquaticLife] Changing water parameters > > Okay as if I wasn't having enough problems on my own with my tanks my > condo association replaced my boiler system a couple of days ago. I > didn't think much of it until I did my first water change in my 55 > gallon last night, and lost all my danio's. So apparently there is > something different about this new boiler system somehow. Oh and all my > water turned white overnight, the only losses seem to be the danio's so > far, all the guppy's are acting pH shocked so apparently the pH must be > different in the new hot water system? > Should I do a new tapwater baseline or is it just something that needs > to work its way out of the new system? > > Amber > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 42871	From: bill 1433	Date: 8/24/2009
Subject: Re: Changing water parameters

I would!  And right away too!  Good Luck Amber,   Bill --- On Mon, 8/24/09, Amber Berglund <arberglund@...> wrote: From: Amber Berglund <arberglund@...> Subject: [AquaticLife] Changing water parameters To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Date: Monday, August 24, 2009, 10:04 AM Okay as if I wasn't having enough problems on my own with my tanks my condo association replaced my boiler system a couple of days ago. I didn't think much of it until I did my first water change in my 55 gallon last night, and lost all my danio's. So apparently there is something different about this new boiler system somehow. Oh and all my water turned white overnight, the only losses seem to be the danio's so far, all the guppy's are acting pH shocked so apparently the pH must be different in the new hot water system? Should I do a new tapwater baseline or is it just something that needs to work its way out of the new system? Amber ------------------------------------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the home page.  Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com to receive the digest, which includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com for the No E-Mail option where you will still be able to read messages on the group and post replies. Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com to receive individual e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 42872	From: bill 1433	Date: 8/24/2009
Subject: Re: Changing water parameters

Amber one other thing? Make sure yout let the water run a good while BEFORE testing or doing any water changes. I thought there was a copper problem with my pipes but only if I used the "standing water" in the pipes. By letting it run a bit the problem went away. Bill --- On Mon, 8/24/09, Amber Berglund <arberglund@...> wrote: > From: Amber Berglund <arberglund@...> > Subject: [AquaticLife] Changing water parameters > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Date: Monday, August 24, 2009, 10:04 AM > Okay as if I wasn't having enough > problems on my own with my tanks my > condo association replaced my boiler system a couple of > days ago. I > didn't think much of it until I did my first water change > in my 55 > gallon last night, and lost all my danio's. So apparently > there is > something different about this new boiler system somehow. > Oh and all my > water turned white overnight, the only losses seem to be > the danio's so > far, all the guppy's are acting pH shocked so apparently > the pH must be > different in the new hot water system? > Should I do a new tapwater baseline or is it just something > that needs > to work its way out of the new system? > > Amber > > > ------------------------------------ > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when > replying, Thank You. > ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> > ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> > PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is > NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of > the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new > subject (was re: old subject)" <- > <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. > , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. > > If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of > unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by > clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the home page.  > > Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com > to receive the digest, which includes up to 25 posts at a > time in a single email > > Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com > for the No E-Mail option where you will still be able to > read messages on the group and post replies. > > Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com > to receive individual e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links > > >     mailto:AquaticLife-fullfeatured@yahoogroups.com > > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 42873	From: jett07002	Date: 8/24/2009
Subject: Re: Discussion On Gravel Vacuuming

If by a "heavy gravel vacuum" it is meant that the whole bottom is cleaned out (with the vacuum, that is) Then I have to agree with him, Lenny. I never vacuum the gravel completely. I usually do one side, wait awhile -- a week or two -- and then do the other. I do this whether the tank has plants or not, but especially if it has plants. I also go a step further by trying my best not to disturb the roots of the plants. I try to do a gravel surface clean in these areas. joe t

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 42874	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 8/24/2009
Subject: Re: Changing water parameters

Hmmmm. When you trickled in the cold water "the last time", did you have your filters running? I kind of remember that the last time you had problems with fish during PWC's was when you did too many, too fast. Possibly, since then, you've also raised your tank's pH now that you use the crushed coral in your substrate and filters. You didn't give me the temps of your cold water out of your tap, compared to your tank so I'm not sure how much difference there is. Of course, during the winter, the cold water would likely be much colder than during the summer, so that is always a factor as well. Down here, during the summer, my cold water is warmer than my tanks, but only by a couple of degrees so I still have to refill kind of slowly with my Python. During the winter, the cold water is much colder, down in the 60's(F) but I still do the slow trickle refill and the tank's heater keeps the tank within 1-2F from normal tank temperature. There's just too much loss of minerals/buffers from the water in my hot water heater and the CO2 level is much higher. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Amber Berglund Sent: Monday, August 24, 2009 12:38 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Changing water parameters Lenny the last time I didn't use hot water it killed nearly all my fish, even though I very slowly trickled in cold water, my cold water pH is VERY different than my tank pH apparently ;) LOL. I will test before I do anything again though, just to make sure. I waited 2 days before I used the water to do a PWC after they had replaced the pipes and boiler. I was hoping 2 days would be enough to flush the system, apparently it was not. I drastically needed a filter cleaning though as it was not getting enough water through the rena xp4 and was not pushing water through the filter, so I had no choice but to do a filter cleaning, and then refill the tank. Hopefully my danio's and my 1 male guppy loss will be all my losses. It smells like a dead snail though, so I've been searching the tank for a dead snail, so far haven't found one... which makes me wonder just a little ;) LOL. I know there are some more danio's hiding in there too, as I only found 3 out of the 7 that should be in there. I also don't see any swimming... :( Amber Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > > > Quit using the hot water for now... at least for the fish. > > When refilling the tank(s), simply refill them really slowly with the > cold water so that the tank's heater can warm up the tank as needed. > Further, slowly refilling them will also give the fish a chance to > acclimate to any change in the water temperature. What is your cold > water's temperature out of the tap compared to the tank's temperature? > > Run your baseline testing on your hot, cold and mixed (to tank temp) > water and compare them to your previous baseline tests. > > It could have just been a one-time event where the sediment, scale, > etc., from the old boiler had to be flushed out of the lines and your > PWC happened to get the crap but you should probably run your hot > water for a while... > hours maybe???... to flush out the line to your unit. > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> (Links to any articles referenced in > above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels > and also under Archives by Year, Month) > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On Behalf Of Amber Berglund > Sent: Monday, August 24, 2009 9:05 AM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Subject: [AquaticLife] Changing water parameters > > Okay as if I wasn't having enough problems on my own with my tanks my > condo association replaced my boiler system a couple of days ago. I > didn't think much of it until I did my first water change in my 55 > gallon last night, and lost all my danio's. So apparently there is > something different about this new boiler system somehow. Oh and all > my water turned white overnight, the only losses seem to be the > danio's so far, all the guppy's are acting pH shocked so apparently > the pH must be different in the new hot water system? > Should I do a new tapwater baseline or is it just something that needs > to work its way out of the new system? > > Amber

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 42875	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 8/24/2009
Subject: Re: Discussion On Gravel Vacuuming

Well, certainly with planted tanks, one would not deep vacuum the gravel to keep from damaging roots. I just do not see the reason to leave all of this fish poop, detritus or mulm in our un-planted tanks or tanks where plants are in containers. Now, in planted tanks, I know that some of this waste is utilized by the plants to a certain degree but in un-planted, lightly planted or container planted tanks, there is simply no good reason to leave this fish waste in the tank any longer than we have to. Prior to what we now know about denitrification (the nitrogen cycle, etc.), most folks thought all the good bacteria lived in the gravel but we now know that the good nitrifying bacteria lives mostly in the filter media since that is where all the food and oxygen richer water is passing through on a constant basis. Deep down in the gravel, there is almost no oxygen rich water so aerobic bacteria will not likely be living down there when they can live in better environments of the tank, such as surface areas of the gravel at the top, on the glass, plants, decorations and of course, the filter media. The only thing down deep in the gravel is decaying detritus, mulm and possibly anaerobic bacteria pockets... which could be putting out nasty by-products like hydrogen sulfide, etc. Even if there aren't pockets of anaerobic bacteria, the decaying detritus would simply be adding to the pollution levels in the tank so why leave it there? Years ago, I did have deep gravel in my tanks, 2" to 3", but when I started learning much more about the ecology of fish tanks, I switched to where I only have 1/2" to 1" of gravel and most of my plants that need deeper root beds are in clay pots or other containers. This makes vacuuming the gravel much easier so I am able to do 100% bottom vacuuming, which is especially helpful in my goldfish tank since even though I only have two fancy goldfish in a 65G tank, I still consider it a heavy bioload in that tank. If I leave all their waste laying around in the gravel for more than a week at a time, I can visibly see a degradation in the cleanliness of the tank and water quality. That's not counting all the fish waste that comes out of the filter media when I do filter maintenance/cleaning. Keep the discussion going. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of jett07002 Sent: Monday, August 24, 2009 4:05 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Discussion On Gravel Vacuuming If by a "heavy gravel vacuum" it is meant that the whole bottom is cleaned out (with the vacuum, that is) Then I have to agree with him, Lenny. I never vacuum the gravel completely. I usually do one side, wait awhile -- a week or two -- and then do the other. I do this whether the tank has plants or not, but especially if it has plants. I also go a step further by trying my best not to disturb the roots of the plants. I try to do a gravel surface clean in these areas. joe t

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 42876	From: courtland_jacob	Date: 8/24/2009
Subject: Re: Changing water parameters

i do not heat water before adding it, it has not hurt any of my fish and it never drops the temp of my tank to be safe just add slowly, the reason I don't like to use hot water is because sometimes you get heavy metal deposits built up in water heaters and other crap that I don't really want in my tanks, also doesn't hurt that since i live in louisiana my room temp is pretty high so even if my water just sits in a jug for a while it's usually warm enough --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, Amber Berglund <arberglund@...> wrote: > > Okay as if I wasn't having enough problems on my own with my tanks my > condo association replaced my boiler system a couple of days ago. I > didn't think much of it until I did my first water change in my 55 > gallon last night, and lost all my danio's. So apparently there is > something different about this new boiler system somehow. Oh and all my > water turned white overnight, the only losses seem to be the danio's so > far, all the guppy's are acting pH shocked so apparently the pH must be > different in the new hot water system? > Should I do a new tapwater baseline or is it just something that needs > to work its way out of the new system? > > Amber >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 42877	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 8/24/2009
Subject: Re: Mystery snail eggs

I have another snail that is repeatedly climbing out of the tank as far as it can go... would it be searching for a good spot to lay eggs or just higher ground? ;) LOL Amber pam andress wrote: > > > > Deffinately more then 2 words Lenny!!! lol But yes that would help. > > Pam > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > From: GoldLenny@... <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com> > Date: Sun, 23 Aug 2009 22:15:27 -0500 > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Mystery snail eggs > > Two words... Saran Wrap (or your brand of choice of plastic wrap). Or even > a towel over the top would keep in much of the humidity. OK... maybe that > was more than two words. LOL > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right > side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On > Behalf Of Amber Berglund > Sent: Sunday, August 23, 2009 9:48 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Mystery snail eggs > > There is not a top on the tank, so no to that question ;) It's the > only tank > with a top because I kept knocking the versa tops into the tank and I was > getting angry ;) LOL. > > Amber > > pam andress wrote: > > > > > > > > Do you have a top on your tank? If so, then that will keep it humid in > > there. No you don't mist them, you just make sure they stay dry and > > leave them alone. > > > > Pam > > > > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > From: arberglund@... <mailto:arberglund%40gmail.com> > <mailto:arberglund%40gmail.com> > > Date: Sun, 23 Aug 2009 15:59:53 -0800 > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Mystery snail eggs > > > > Dry warm and humid... that's a lot of requirements ;) LOL > > So should I mist the eggs or is that too much humid? > > Is just being right above the surface of the water enough? > > Thanks Pam, > > Amber > > > > pam andress wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > They need to be kept dry and warm and humid to hatch. Takes about 2 > > > weeks. You will notice the clutch change color a bit before hatching. > > > > > > Congrats! > > > > > > Pam > > > > > > > > > Not sure if I should be excited or not, guess I'll wait until all the > > > babies hatch and start to grow up before I see how over populated > I get > > > on purple mystery snails, LOL. > > > The eggs were laid last night sometime, so I have some time to > wait. Is > > > there anything I should do for the eggs besides not get them wet? LOL. > > > > > > Thanks, > > > Amber > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 42878	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 8/25/2009
Subject: Re: Mystery snail eggs

You know... did you add that same hot water to your snail tank? If the water was bad enough to harm Zebra Danios, then it might also be bad enough to harm your snails. Keep an eye on them and I should have mentioned in my first reply about your water issue, run some fresh carbon or Purigen or some other chemical filtration on your tanks. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Amber Berglund Sent: Tuesday, August 25, 2009 1:44 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Mystery snail eggs I have another snail that is repeatedly climbing out of the tank as far as it can go... would it be searching for a good spot to lay eggs or just higher ground? ;) LOL Amber pam andress wrote: > > > > Deffinately more then 2 words Lenny!!! lol But yes that would help. > > Pam > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > From: GoldLenny@... <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com> > Date: Sun, 23 Aug 2009 22:15:27 -0500 > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Mystery snail eggs > > Two words... Saran Wrap (or your brand of choice of plastic wrap). Or > even a towel over the top would keep in much of the humidity. OK... > maybe that was more than two words. LOL > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> (Links to any articles referenced in > above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels > and also under Archives by Year, Month) > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On Behalf Of Amber Berglund > Sent: Sunday, August 23, 2009 9:48 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Mystery snail eggs > > There is not a top on the tank, so no to that question ;) It's the > only tank with a top because I kept knocking the versa tops into the > tank and I was getting angry ;) LOL. > > Amber > > pam andress wrote: > > > > > > > > Do you have a top on your tank? If so, then that will keep it humid > > in there. No you don't mist them, you just make sure they stay dry > > and leave them alone. > > > > Pam > > > > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > From: arberglund@... <mailto:arberglund%40gmail.com> > <mailto:arberglund%40gmail.com> > > Date: Sun, 23 Aug 2009 15:59:53 -0800 > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Mystery snail eggs > > > > Dry warm and humid... that's a lot of requirements ;) LOL So should > > I mist the eggs or is that too much humid? > > Is just being right above the surface of the water enough? > > Thanks Pam, > > Amber > > > > pam andress wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > They need to be kept dry and warm and humid to hatch. Takes about > > > 2 weeks. You will notice the clutch change color a bit before hatching. > > > > > > Congrats! > > > > > > Pam > > > > > > > > > Not sure if I should be excited or not, guess I'll wait until all > > > the babies hatch and start to grow up before I see how over > > > populated > I get > > > on purple mystery snails, LOL. > > > The eggs were laid last night sometime, so I have some time to > wait. Is > > > there anything I should do for the eggs besides not get them wet? LOL. > > > > > > Thanks, > > > Amber

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 42879	From: sevenspringss	Date: 8/25/2009
Subject: Re: Discussion On Gravel Vacuuming

Lenny, Since you ask for further input, I might add that I too see no merit in retaining the waste in deeper substrate only because the aquarium may not be utilizing an undergravel filter. Actually, I don't at all understand the "logic" being brought forward here when this thread states that deep gravel vacuuming in itself can upset the ecological balance of this substrate, causing a mini-cycle a few days later. What I believe the author of this article may possibly have been trying to say, is that ANY total-area gravel vacuuming may partially upset one's nitrogen cycle as all of the surface dwelling aerobic bacteria will be removed at once. Many hobbyists prefer to clean their substrate in halves, doing one half of their substrate every two weeks and the other half on the alternate two week interims to prevent the total loss of those aerobic bacteria at any one time. This is more beneficial when first establishing one's cycle, but is usually not as critical after the filter has established its full complement of nitrifying bacteria comparable to the bioload it will using the waste products of. It's still not a bad idea to continue such a practice though, to ensure sufficient auxilliary populations of nitrifying bacteria growing on the substrate, especially when servicing the filter. It appears that this author is trying to say that undergravel filtration will continue to keep up one's cycle despite deep gravel cleaning (presumedly because of its promotion of aerobic bacterial growth), but that without this type of filtration, the loss of this bacteria (now only on or very near the substrate surface) will be too great for the filter to compensate for. What I don't see here is the author's consideration for the need for deep cleaning with or especially without the use of undergravel filtration, as ongoing penetration of wastes (either as fish waste, plant ditritus or uneaten foods) into continually lower substrate stratas. Without the deep cleaning of the substrate, these wastes will be acted upon by those types of heterotrophic bacteria which enact in putrefaction of these substances in anaerobic conditions. This will eventually promote noxious gases in the forms of hydrogen and methane. I feel deep cleaning of the substrate is essential in maintaining an absence of such conditions -- even though such deep cleaning may only be needed at least periodically, depending upon the bioload and its accompanied wastes, and the hobbyist's care from excess feeding, or more frequently where prudent. Deep cleaning of the substrate should also be part of one's maintenance regimen even when using undergravel filters, to eliminate waste build-ups in pockets of reduced circulation. Ray --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@...> wrote: > > I've been reading some of the articles on the site that \\Steve// referenced > in another thread and came across this page about Water Changes. While most > of the info I've read is good, I tend to seriously disagree with one of the > Tip's found on the following page. > > http://www.aquaworldaquarium.com/Articles/TonyGriffitts/Water_Changes.htm > > Tip - Gravel Vacuuming > > Never do a heavy gravel vacuuming on an aquarium that does not use an Under > Gravel filter. This can upset the ecological balance of a sand or gravel > bed causing an ammonia and nitrite spike a few days later. > (END SNIP) > > Now... my personal experience and feelings on this is diametrically opposite > the above tip. I truly believe that deep and heavy gravel vacuuming should > be done as part of regular and frequent tank maintenance, especially in a > non-planted tank. There is simply no logical reason to leave all of that > decaying detritus/mulm in the gravel in our tanks. Vacuuming the > detritus/mulm out of the gravel will NOT remove any of the bacteria that are > living on the surface areas of the gravel although it will remove any > parasites and/or bacteria that are living off of and in the detritus and > mulm... which are not typically nitrifying bacteria. > > Since most of the good bacteria (nitrifying) live in the filter system media > and not on the gravel (except with UGF's where the good bacteria do live on > the gravel), I'm not sure where heavy gravel vacuuming would cause an > ammonia/nitrite spike (also called a mini-cycle) and I have NEVER seen this > happen with any of my tanks and I almost always heavy vacuum my gravel, > except in my Cherry Shrimp tank where I have to be extra careful due to the > number of baby shrimp crawling around. > > If anything, removing all of this detritus/mulm would reduce the amount of > ammonia and carbonic acid that would be put out by the decaying > detritus/mulm, thereby lowering the bioload on the tank. > > What do you all think???? > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right > side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 42880	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 8/25/2009
Subject: Re: Changing water parameters

I can't remember that long ago lenny, but I'm pretty sure I had my filters going as I usually clean the filter first, then refill the tank after I refill the filter with removed tank water. Just depends on how dirty the filter is and how much water I have to remove ;) Sometimes I will remove water to clean the filter with and then trickle water in while I'm cleaning the filter, then refill the filter with tank water, topping it off with tap water and dechlor. I didn't check the temp of my cold water out of the tap, but it's very cold ;) LOL. This is Alaska ;) It's probably in the 60's or lower depending on outside temps (which are usually in the 60's or lower most of the year). I prefer to keep the tapwater temp close to my tank temp ever since that incident, but I can try cold water again and see if that helps, I went with less hot water this time and slowly trickled it in. I couldn't see through the tank to find any more dead fish so I tried a PWC to see if it helps... so far no, but the fish look happier ;) LOL. May have to do another one after I get off of work tonight, if I can't see through the cloudy water to find the dead things what would you recommend? searching with my hand until I find something squishy and gross feeling? LOL Amber Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > > > Hmmmm. When you trickled in the cold water "the last time", did you have > your filters running? I kind of remember that the last time you had > problems with fish during PWC's was when you did too many, too fast. > Possibly, since then, you've also raised your tank's pH now that you > use the > crushed coral in your substrate and filters. > > You didn't give me the temps of your cold water out of your tap, > compared to > your tank so I'm not sure how much difference there is. Of course, during > the winter, the cold water would likely be much colder than during the > summer, so that is always a factor as well. Down here, during the summer, > my cold water is warmer than my tanks, but only by a couple of degrees > so I > still have to refill kind of slowly with my Python. During the winter, the > cold water is much colder, down in the 60's(F) but I still do the slow > trickle refill and the tank's heater keeps the tank within 1-2F from > normal > tank temperature. There's just too much loss of minerals/buffers from the > water in my hot water heater and the CO2 level is much higher. > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right > side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On > Behalf Of Amber Berglund > Sent: Monday, August 24, 2009 12:38 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Changing water parameters > > Lenny the last time I didn't use hot water it killed nearly all my fish, > even though I very slowly trickled in cold water, my cold water pH is VERY > different than my tank pH apparently ;) LOL. > I will test before I do anything again though, just to make sure. > I waited 2 days before I used the water to do a PWC after they had > replaced > the pipes and boiler. I was hoping 2 days would be enough to flush the > system, apparently it was not. I drastically needed a filter cleaning > though > as it was not getting enough water through the rena xp4 and was not > pushing > water through the filter, so I had no choice but to do a filter cleaning, > and then refill the tank. > Hopefully my danio's and my 1 male guppy loss will be all my losses. > It smells like a dead snail though, so I've been searching the tank for a > dead snail, so far haven't found one... which makes me wonder just a > little > ;) LOL. > I know there are some more danio's hiding in there too, as I only found > 3 out of the 7 that should be in there. I also don't see any > swimming... :( > > Amber > > Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > > > > > > Quit using the hot water for now... at least for the fish. > > > > When refilling the tank(s), simply refill them really slowly with the > > cold water so that the tank's heater can warm up the tank as needed. > > Further, slowly refilling them will also give the fish a chance to > > acclimate to any change in the water temperature. What is your cold > > water's temperature out of the tap compared to the tank's temperature? > > > > Run your baseline testing on your hot, cold and mixed (to tank temp) > > water and compare them to your previous baseline tests. > > > > It could have just been a one-time event where the sediment, scale, > > etc., from the old boiler had to be flushed out of the lines and your > > PWC happened to get the crap but you should probably run your hot > > water for a while... > > hours maybe???... to flush out the line to your unit. > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>> > (Links to any articles referenced in > > above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels > > and also under Archives by Year, Month) > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On Behalf Of Amber Berglund > > Sent: Monday, August 24, 2009 9:05 AM > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > Subject: [AquaticLife] Changing water parameters > > > > Okay as if I wasn't having enough problems on my own with my tanks my > > condo association replaced my boiler system a couple of days ago. I > > didn't think much of it until I did my first water change in my 55 > > gallon last night, and lost all my danio's. So apparently there is > > something different about this new boiler system somehow. Oh and all > > my water turned white overnight, the only losses seem to be the > > danio's so far, all the guppy's are acting pH shocked so apparently > > the pH must be different in the new hot water system? > > Should I do a new tapwater baseline or is it just something that needs > > to work its way out of the new system? > > > > Amber > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 42881	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 8/25/2009
Subject: Re: Changing water parameters

Oh I forgot to say that yes, my tank pH has gone up and stabilized at 7.2 since adding the crushed coral to the filter (I don't test at lights out so I'm not sure what it drops to at lights out). On sunday I did at water change right before lights out, I'm wondering if that's what caused all the stress :( Amber Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > > > Hmmmm. When you trickled in the cold water "the last time", did you have > your filters running? I kind of remember that the last time you had > problems with fish during PWC's was when you did too many, too fast. > Possibly, since then, you've also raised your tank's pH now that you > use the > crushed coral in your substrate and filters. > > You didn't give me the temps of your cold water out of your tap, > compared to > your tank so I'm not sure how much difference there is. Of course, during > the winter, the cold water would likely be much colder than during the > summer, so that is always a factor as well. Down here, during the summer, > my cold water is warmer than my tanks, but only by a couple of degrees > so I > still have to refill kind of slowly with my Python. During the winter, the > cold water is much colder, down in the 60's(F) but I still do the slow > trickle refill and the tank's heater keeps the tank within 1-2F from > normal > tank temperature. There's just too much loss of minerals/buffers from the > water in my hot water heater and the CO2 level is much higher. > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right > side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On > Behalf Of Amber Berglund > Sent: Monday, August 24, 2009 12:38 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Changing water parameters > > Lenny the last time I didn't use hot water it killed nearly all my fish, > even though I very slowly trickled in cold water, my cold water pH is VERY > different than my tank pH apparently ;) LOL. > I will test before I do anything again though, just to make sure. > I waited 2 days before I used the water to do a PWC after they had > replaced > the pipes and boiler. I was hoping 2 days would be enough to flush the > system, apparently it was not. I drastically needed a filter cleaning > though > as it was not getting enough water through the rena xp4 and was not > pushing > water through the filter, so I had no choice but to do a filter cleaning, > and then refill the tank. > Hopefully my danio's and my 1 male guppy loss will be all my losses. > It smells like a dead snail though, so I've been searching the tank for a > dead snail, so far haven't found one... which makes me wonder just a > little > ;) LOL. > I know there are some more danio's hiding in there too, as I only found > 3 out of the 7 that should be in there. I also don't see any > swimming... :( > > Amber > > Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > > > > > > Quit using the hot water for now... at least for the fish. > > > > When refilling the tank(s), simply refill them really slowly with the > > cold water so that the tank's heater can warm up the tank as needed. > > Further, slowly refilling them will also give the fish a chance to > > acclimate to any change in the water temperature. What is your cold > > water's temperature out of the tap compared to the tank's temperature? > > > > Run your baseline testing on your hot, cold and mixed (to tank temp) > > water and compare them to your previous baseline tests. > > > > It could have just been a one-time event where the sediment, scale, > > etc., from the old boiler had to be flushed out of the lines and your > > PWC happened to get the crap but you should probably run your hot > > water for a while... > > hours maybe???... to flush out the line to your unit. > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>> > (Links to any articles referenced in > > above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels > > and also under Archives by Year, Month) > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On Behalf Of Amber Berglund > > Sent: Monday, August 24, 2009 9:05 AM > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > Subject: [AquaticLife] Changing water parameters > > > > Okay as if I wasn't having enough problems on my own with my tanks my > > condo association replaced my boiler system a couple of days ago. I > > didn't think much of it until I did my first water change in my 55 > > gallon last night, and lost all my danio's. So apparently there is > > something different about this new boiler system somehow. Oh and all > > my water turned white overnight, the only losses seem to be the > > danio's so far, all the guppy's are acting pH shocked so apparently > > the pH must be different in the new hot water system? > > Should I do a new tapwater baseline or is it just something that needs > > to work its way out of the new system? > > > > Amber > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 42882	From: pam andress	Date: 8/25/2009
Subject: Re: Mystery snail eggs

I have no idea. I have had a few climb out. Some I have found in time and others I haven't. :( Pam To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com From: arberglund@... Date: Mon, 24 Aug 2009 22:44:23 -0800 Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Mystery snail eggs I have another snail that is repeatedly climbing out of the tank as far as it can go... would it be searching for a good spot to lay eggs or just higher ground? ;) LOL Amber pam andress wrote: > > > > Deffinately more then 2 words Lenny!!! lol But yes that would help. > > Pam > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > From: GoldLenny@... <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com> > Date: Sun, 23 Aug 2009 22:15:27 -0500 > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Mystery snail eggs > > Two words... Saran Wrap (or your brand of choice of plastic wrap). Or even > a towel over the top would keep in much of the humidity. OK... maybe that > was more than two words. LOL > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right > side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On > Behalf Of Amber Berglund > Sent: Sunday, August 23, 2009 9:48 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Mystery snail eggs > > There is not a top on the tank, so no to that question ;) It's the > only tank > with a top because I kept knocking the versa tops into the tank and I was > getting angry ;) LOL. > > Amber > > pam andress wrote: > > > > > > > > Do you have a top on your tank? If so, then that will keep it humid in > > there. No you don't mist them, you just make sure they stay dry and > > leave them alone. > > > > Pam > > > > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > From: arberglund@... <mailto:arberglund%40gmail.com> > <mailto:arberglund%40gmail.com> > > Date: Sun, 23 Aug 2009 15:59:53 -0800 > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Mystery snail eggs > > > > Dry warm and humid... that's a lot of requirements ;) LOL > > So should I mist the eggs or is that too much humid? > > Is just being right above the surface of the water enough? > > Thanks Pam, > > Amber > > > > pam andress wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > They need to be kept dry and warm and humid to hatch. Takes about 2 > > > weeks. You will notice the clutch change color a bit before hatching. > > > > > > Congrats! > > > > > > Pam > > > > > > > > > Not sure if I should be excited or not, guess I'll wait until all the > > > babies hatch and start to grow up before I see how over populated > I get > > > on purple mystery snails, LOL. > > > The eggs were laid last night sometime, so I have some time to > wait. Is > > > there anything I should do for the eggs besides not get them wet? LOL. > > > > > > Thanks, > > > Amber > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 42883	From: jett07002	Date: 8/25/2009
Subject: Re: Discussion On Gravel Vacuuming

Ahhh! Now you're talking my language! I left out (there I go again, not making myself clear) that at most I have about 2" of gravel in my aquariams. You would be surprised how even the deep rooters will survive in about 2" of gravel if you don't disturb their roots too much. Instead of going deep, they search along the bottom of the tank. (LOL, I think I told one time before how I had to clean out a tank after it was set up for quite awhile. What an entanglement of roots that was! It was a two day project just trying to untangle the roots carefully so that I didn't do too much damage.) That's where pots come in handy. And even then, if the plants are growing vigorously you have to re-pot them, so, "6 of one, half dozen the other." With gravel only an inch or two deep, I am of the opinion that nitrifying (good) bacteria have a good chance or surviving if you have good water circulation. With this comment I am not implying one should not vacuum the gravel at all. Unless it is deep, I do not see the need for "deep" cleaning. A religious routine of partial water changes -- always a must -- and vacuuming the gravel lightly to remove sediment should suffice. I does in my tanks. With deep gravel, I very much agree with you. With goldfish, I agree with you, also. They are especially tough to keep clean if you are not diligent. joe t

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 42884	From: robbrouse	Date: 8/25/2009
Subject: Re: Changing water parameters

One thing you can look at is keeping water in a jug or something that ready for water changes. It will be warmer than right from the tap.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 42885	From: Deenerz@aol.com	Date: 8/25/2009
Subject: Re: Changing water parameters

One of many good reasons to have a container of water for water changes. It allows water to de-gas. Very often water comes out of the piped and de gasses in your tank and this can be harmful for delicate fish. The pH put of the tap often changes. San Francisco fish keepers have had some major issues with this! As you mentioned temperature is also very important. If any of you have ever been to Pam and Gary Chin's fish house in California you will see a great example of a tank set up for just this reason. They are not unique many fish keepers do this. Wish I had a little more room to do that. -Mike -----Original Message----- From: robbrouse <robbrouse@...> To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Tue, Aug 25, 2009 12:36 pm Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Changing water parameters One thing you can look at is keeping water in a jug or something that ready for water changes. It will be warmer than right from the tap. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 42886	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 8/25/2009
Subject: Re: Mystery snail eggs

Well I did a pwc this morning to try to clear up the water and found 2 more dead danios I think I have 2 left to find if the snails don't eat em first lol. I still can't see through the tank though since its so cloudy. I think I lost my nitrifying bacteria in my filter since it was clogged and not running properly. Hopefully it clears up fast, I have a cycled hob on the tank too so that should help repopulate the bacteria again. Will test the tank after work to see where the tank is sitting at. Amber On Aug 25, 2009 8:31 AM, "pam andress" <pamandress23@...> wrote: I have no idea. I have had a few climb out. Some I have found in time and others I haven't. :( Pam To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com From: arberglund@... <arberglund%40gmail.com> Date: Mon, 24 Aug 2009 22:44:23 -0800 Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Mystery snail eggs I have another snail that is repeatedly climbing out... [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 42887	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 8/25/2009
Subject: Re: Changing water parameters

For someone like Amber, with multiple tanks on two different floors, this isn't really practical, which is why the Python was invented. "Necessity is the mother of invention" -- Plato http://www.quotationspage.com/quote/33942.html (I was surprised to see that Plato was the originator of this quote. :-P) I guess if Amber decided to put a rack over her upstairs tank capable of holding enough water to do her weekly 25% PWC's... probably around 100G of water would be needed... then she could use that as a holding tank but now you're talking around 800 pounds of a water holding tank mounted to the wall or ceiling which isn't an easy thing to do. This was a fluke or hopefully just a one-time occurrence since boilers and hot water heaters are not changed out very often. Just consider it a learning experience for anyone else reading this thread so they'll be more careful whenever any plumbing changes are made. ALSO... know your 48 hour tap water baseline numbers and check them a couple of times a year, during the coldest and hottest seasons to see how much they might change. I know mine change between winter and summer. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Deenerz@... Sent: Tuesday, August 25, 2009 2:47 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: Changing water parameters One of many good reasons to have a container of water for water changes. It allows water to de-gas. Very often water comes out of the piped and de gasses in your tank and this can be harmful for delicate fish. The pH put of the tap often changes. San Francisco fish keepers have had some major issues with this! As you mentioned temperature is also very important. If any of you have ever been to Pam and Gary Chin's fish house in California you will see a great example of a tank set up for just this reason. They are not unique many fish keepers do this. Wish I had a little more room to do that. -Mike -----Original Message----- From: robbrouse <robbrouse@...> To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Tue, Aug 25, 2009 12:36 pm Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Changing water parameters One thing you can look at is keeping water in a jug or something that ready for water changes. It will be warmer than right from the tap.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 42888	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 8/25/2009
Subject: Re: Changing water parameters

Did you happen to watch the fish afterwards to see if they were gasping or at the surface? If you had a higher CO2 level from the hot water, compounded by the higher CO2 level from the lights being out, that could have been a cause. Have you tested your tank water? What are the numbers since this started and currently? Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Amber Berglund Sent: Tuesday, August 25, 2009 10:46 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Changing water parameters Oh I forgot to say that yes, my tank pH has gone up and stabilized at 7.2 since adding the crushed coral to the filter (I don't test at lights out so I'm not sure what it drops to at lights out). On sunday I did at water change right before lights out, I'm wondering if that's what caused all the stress :( Amber Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > > > Hmmmm. When you trickled in the cold water "the last time", did you > have your filters running? I kind of remember that the last time you > had problems with fish during PWC's was when you did too many, too fast. > Possibly, since then, you've also raised your tank's pH now that you > use the crushed coral in your substrate and filters. > > You didn't give me the temps of your cold water out of your tap, > compared to your tank so I'm not sure how much difference there is. Of > course, during the winter, the cold water would likely be much colder > than during the summer, so that is always a factor as well. Down here, > during the summer, my cold water is warmer than my tanks, but only by > a couple of degrees so I still have to refill kind of slowly with my > Python. During the winter, the cold water is much colder, down in the > 60's(F) but I still do the slow trickle refill and the tank's heater > keeps the tank within 1-2F from normal tank temperature. There's just > too much loss of minerals/buffers from the water in my hot water > heater and the CO2 level is much higher. > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> (Links to any articles referenced in > above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels > and also under Archives by Year, Month) > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On Behalf Of Amber Berglund > Sent: Monday, August 24, 2009 12:38 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Changing water parameters > > Lenny the last time I didn't use hot water it killed nearly all my > fish, even though I very slowly trickled in cold water, my cold water > pH is VERY different than my tank pH apparently ;) LOL. > I will test before I do anything again though, just to make sure. > I waited 2 days before I used the water to do a PWC after they had > replaced the pipes and boiler. I was hoping 2 days would be enough to > flush the system, apparently it was not. I drastically needed a filter > cleaning though as it was not getting enough water through the rena > xp4 and was not pushing water through the filter, so I had no choice > but to do a filter cleaning, and then refill the tank. > Hopefully my danio's and my 1 male guppy loss will be all my losses. > It smells like a dead snail though, so I've been searching the tank > for a dead snail, so far haven't found one... which makes me wonder > just a little > ;) LOL. > I know there are some more danio's hiding in there too, as I only > found > 3 out of the 7 that should be in there. I also don't see any > swimming... :( > > Amber > > Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > > > > > > Quit using the hot water for now... at least for the fish. > > > > When refilling the tank(s), simply refill them really slowly with > > the cold water so that the tank's heater can warm up the tank as needed. > > Further, slowly refilling them will also give the fish a chance to > > acclimate to any change in the water temperature. What is your cold > > water's temperature out of the tap compared to the tank's temperature? > > > > Run your baseline testing on your hot, cold and mixed (to tank temp) > > water and compare them to your previous baseline tests. > > > > It could have just been a one-time event where the sediment, scale, > > etc., from the old boiler had to be flushed out of the lines and > > your PWC happened to get the crap but you should probably run your > > hot water for a while... > > hours maybe???... to flush out the line to your unit. > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>> > (Links to any articles referenced in > > above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under > > Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On Behalf Of Amber Berglund > > Sent: Monday, August 24, 2009 9:05 AM > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > Subject: [AquaticLife] Changing water parameters > > > > Okay as if I wasn't having enough problems on my own with my tanks > > my condo association replaced my boiler system a couple of days ago. > > I didn't think much of it until I did my first water change in my 55 > > gallon last night, and lost all my danio's. So apparently there is > > something different about this new boiler system somehow. Oh and all > > my water turned white overnight, the only losses seem to be the > > danio's so far, all the guppy's are acting pH shocked so apparently > > the pH must be different in the new hot water system? > > Should I do a new tapwater baseline or is it just something that > > needs to work its way out of the new system? > > > > Amber

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 42889	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 8/25/2009
Subject: Re: Changing water parameters

This just happened sunday night, I worked over 12 hours yesterday and honestly paid little/no attention to the fish tank as I was so tired last night. I plan on testing the tank after work tonight, I have only done 1 PWC since sunday, and that was this morning, and I didn't lose any more fish, so I'm thinking that my PWC right before lights out is what caused my issues. Amber Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > > > Did you happen to watch the fish afterwards to see if they were gasping or > at the surface? If you had a higher CO2 level from the hot water, > compounded by the higher CO2 level from the lights being out, that could > have been a cause. Have you tested your tank water? What are the numbers > since this started and currently? > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right > side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On > Behalf Of Amber Berglund > Sent: Tuesday, August 25, 2009 10:46 AM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Changing water parameters > > Oh I forgot to say that yes, my tank pH has gone up and stabilized at > 7.2 since adding the crushed coral to the filter (I don't test at > lights out > so I'm not sure what it drops to at lights out). On sunday I did at water > change right before lights out, I'm wondering if that's what caused > all the > stress :( > > Amber > > Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > > > > > > Hmmmm. When you trickled in the cold water "the last time", did you > > have your filters running? I kind of remember that the last time you > > had problems with fish during PWC's was when you did too many, too fast. > > Possibly, since then, you've also raised your tank's pH now that you > > use the crushed coral in your substrate and filters. > > > > You didn't give me the temps of your cold water out of your tap, > > compared to your tank so I'm not sure how much difference there is. Of > > course, during the winter, the cold water would likely be much colder > > than during the summer, so that is always a factor as well. Down here, > > during the summer, my cold water is warmer than my tanks, but only by > > a couple of degrees so I still have to refill kind of slowly with my > > Python. During the winter, the cold water is much colder, down in the > > 60's(F) but I still do the slow trickle refill and the tank's heater > > keeps the tank within 1-2F from normal tank temperature. There's just > > too much loss of minerals/buffers from the water in my hot water > > heater and the CO2 level is much higher. > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>> > (Links to any articles referenced in > > above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels > > and also under Archives by Year, Month) > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On Behalf Of Amber Berglund > > Sent: Monday, August 24, 2009 12:38 PM > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Changing water parameters > > > > Lenny the last time I didn't use hot water it killed nearly all my > > fish, even though I very slowly trickled in cold water, my cold water > > pH is VERY different than my tank pH apparently ;) LOL. > > I will test before I do anything again though, just to make sure. > > I waited 2 days before I used the water to do a PWC after they had > > replaced the pipes and boiler. I was hoping 2 days would be enough to > > flush the system, apparently it was not. I drastically needed a filter > > cleaning though as it was not getting enough water through the rena > > xp4 and was not pushing water through the filter, so I had no choice > > but to do a filter cleaning, and then refill the tank. > > Hopefully my danio's and my 1 male guppy loss will be all my losses. > > It smells like a dead snail though, so I've been searching the tank > > for a dead snail, so far haven't found one... which makes me wonder > > just a little > > ;) LOL. > > I know there are some more danio's hiding in there too, as I only > > found > > 3 out of the 7 that should be in there. I also don't see any > > swimming... :( > > > > Amber > > > > Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > > > > > > > > > Quit using the hot water for now... at least for the fish. > > > > > > When refilling the tank(s), simply refill them really slowly with > > > the cold water so that the tank's heater can warm up the tank as > needed. > > > Further, slowly refilling them will also give the fish a chance to > > > acclimate to any change in the water temperature. What is your cold > > > water's temperature out of the tap compared to the tank's temperature? > > > > > > Run your baseline testing on your hot, cold and mixed (to tank temp) > > > water and compare them to your previous baseline tests. > > > > > > It could have just been a one-time event where the sediment, scale, > > > etc., from the old boiler had to be flushed out of the lines and > > > your PWC happened to get the crap but you should probably run your > > > hot water for a while... > > > hours maybe???... to flush out the line to your unit. > > > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>> > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>>> > > (Links to any articles referenced in > > > above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under > > > Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On Behalf Of Amber Berglund > > > Sent: Monday, August 24, 2009 9:05 AM > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > Subject: [AquaticLife] Changing water parameters > > > > > > Okay as if I wasn't having enough problems on my own with my tanks > > > my condo association replaced my boiler system a couple of days ago. > > > I didn't think much of it until I did my first water change in my 55 > > > gallon last night, and lost all my danio's. So apparently there is > > > something different about this new boiler system somehow. Oh and all > > > my water turned white overnight, the only losses seem to be the > > > danio's so far, all the guppy's are acting pH shocked so apparently > > > the pH must be different in the new hot water system? > > > Should I do a new tapwater baseline or is it just something that > > > needs to work its way out of the new system? > > > > > > Amber > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 42890	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 8/25/2009
Subject: Re: Changing water parameters

Oh and I didn't see if they were gasping on Sunday night, I passed out shortly after tank cleaning time. I noticed monday morning that they were gasping at the surface though. Not sure if that helps or not ;) LOL Amber Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > > > Did you happen to watch the fish afterwards to see if they were gasping or > at the surface? If you had a higher CO2 level from the hot water, > compounded by the higher CO2 level from the lights being out, that could > have been a cause. Have you tested your tank water? What are the numbers > since this started and currently? > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right > side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On > Behalf Of Amber Berglund > Sent: Tuesday, August 25, 2009 10:46 AM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Changing water parameters > > Oh I forgot to say that yes, my tank pH has gone up and stabilized at > 7.2 since adding the crushed coral to the filter (I don't test at > lights out > so I'm not sure what it drops to at lights out). On sunday I did at water > change right before lights out, I'm wondering if that's what caused > all the > stress :( > > Amber > > Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > > > > > > Hmmmm. When you trickled in the cold water "the last time", did you > > have your filters running? I kind of remember that the last time you > > had problems with fish during PWC's was when you did too many, too fast. > > Possibly, since then, you've also raised your tank's pH now that you > > use the crushed coral in your substrate and filters. > > > > You didn't give me the temps of your cold water out of your tap, > > compared to your tank so I'm not sure how much difference there is. Of > > course, during the winter, the cold water would likely be much colder > > than during the summer, so that is always a factor as well. Down here, > > during the summer, my cold water is warmer than my tanks, but only by > > a couple of degrees so I still have to refill kind of slowly with my > > Python. During the winter, the cold water is much colder, down in the > > 60's(F) but I still do the slow trickle refill and the tank's heater > > keeps the tank within 1-2F from normal tank temperature. There's just > > too much loss of minerals/buffers from the water in my hot water > > heater and the CO2 level is much higher. > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>> > (Links to any articles referenced in > > above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels > > and also under Archives by Year, Month) > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On Behalf Of Amber Berglund > > Sent: Monday, August 24, 2009 12:38 PM > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Changing water parameters > > > > Lenny the last time I didn't use hot water it killed nearly all my > > fish, even though I very slowly trickled in cold water, my cold water > > pH is VERY different than my tank pH apparently ;) LOL. > > I will test before I do anything again though, just to make sure. > > I waited 2 days before I used the water to do a PWC after they had > > replaced the pipes and boiler. I was hoping 2 days would be enough to > > flush the system, apparently it was not. I drastically needed a filter > > cleaning though as it was not getting enough water through the rena > > xp4 and was not pushing water through the filter, so I had no choice > > but to do a filter cleaning, and then refill the tank. > > Hopefully my danio's and my 1 male guppy loss will be all my losses. > > It smells like a dead snail though, so I've been searching the tank > > for a dead snail, so far haven't found one... which makes me wonder > > just a little > > ;) LOL. > > I know there are some more danio's hiding in there too, as I only > > found > > 3 out of the 7 that should be in there. I also don't see any > > swimming... :( > > > > Amber > > > > Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > > > > > > > > > Quit using the hot water for now... at least for the fish. > > > > > > When refilling the tank(s), simply refill them really slowly with > > > the cold water so that the tank's heater can warm up the tank as > needed. > > > Further, slowly refilling them will also give the fish a chance to > > > acclimate to any change in the water temperature. What is your cold > > > water's temperature out of the tap compared to the tank's temperature? > > > > > > Run your baseline testing on your hot, cold and mixed (to tank temp) > > > water and compare them to your previous baseline tests. > > > > > > It could have just been a one-time event where the sediment, scale, > > > etc., from the old boiler had to be flushed out of the lines and > > > your PWC happened to get the crap but you should probably run your > > > hot water for a while... > > > hours maybe???... to flush out the line to your unit. > > > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>> > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>>> > > (Links to any articles referenced in > > > above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under > > > Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On Behalf Of Amber Berglund > > > Sent: Monday, August 24, 2009 9:05 AM > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > Subject: [AquaticLife] Changing water parameters > > > > > > Okay as if I wasn't having enough problems on my own with my tanks > > > my condo association replaced my boiler system a couple of days ago. > > > I didn't think much of it until I did my first water change in my 55 > > > gallon last night, and lost all my danio's. So apparently there is > > > something different about this new boiler system somehow. Oh and all > > > my water turned white overnight, the only losses seem to be the > > > danio's so far, all the guppy's are acting pH shocked so apparently > > > the pH must be different in the new hot water system? > > > Should I do a new tapwater baseline or is it just something that > > > needs to work its way out of the new system? > > > > > > Amber > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 42891	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 8/25/2009
Subject: Re: Mystery snail eggs

I haven't found any dead snails, but one of them keeps trying to climb out (a big dark purple one) but hasn't done so since last night. Perhaps since my water change this morning the tank is better? I keep expecting a dead snail to be in there since the tank is so cloudy, as that was the source of my cloudiness issue last time it happened and once I found the dead snail and removed it, it cleared up rather fast. But if I can't see in the tank it makes it rather hard to find anything at all ;) I pulled a floating snail out this morning and after about 15 minutes I realized it wasn't dead and it was quite mad about being removed from the tank and put in a bowl ;) good thing I didn't just throw him/her away, LOL. That's okay after a quick "out of tank" experience they were put back in ;) I will run some fresh carbon in the HOB (it's easier to get to than opening up the Rena filstar xp4). Amber Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > > > You know... did you add that same hot water to your snail tank? If the > water was bad enough to harm Zebra Danios, then it might also be bad > enough > to harm your snails. Keep an eye on them and I should have mentioned in my > first reply about your water issue, run some fresh carbon or Purigen > or some > other chemical filtration on your tanks. > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right > side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) > > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On > Behalf Of Amber Berglund > Sent: Tuesday, August 25, 2009 1:44 AM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Mystery snail eggs > > I have another snail that is repeatedly climbing out of the tank as far as > it can go... would it be searching for a good spot to lay eggs or just > higher ground? ;) LOL > > Amber > > pam andress wrote: > > > > > > > > Deffinately more then 2 words Lenny!!! lol But yes that would help. > > > > Pam > > > > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > From: GoldLenny@... <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com> > <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com> > > Date: Sun, 23 Aug 2009 22:15:27 -0500 > > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Mystery snail eggs > > > > Two words... Saran Wrap (or your brand of choice of plastic wrap). Or > > even a towel over the top would keep in much of the humidity. OK... > > maybe that was more than two words. LOL > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>> > (Links to any articles referenced in > > above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels > > and also under Archives by Year, Month) > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On Behalf Of Amber Berglund > > Sent: Sunday, August 23, 2009 9:48 PM > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Mystery snail eggs > > > > There is not a top on the tank, so no to that question ;) It's the > > only tank with a top because I kept knocking the versa tops into the > > tank and I was getting angry ;) LOL. > > > > Amber > > > > pam andress wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > Do you have a top on your tank? If so, then that will keep it humid > > > in there. No you don't mist them, you just make sure they stay dry > > > and leave them alone. > > > > > > Pam > > > > > > > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > From: arberglund@... <mailto:arberglund%40gmail.com> > <mailto:arberglund%40gmail.com> > > <mailto:arberglund%40gmail.com> > > > Date: Sun, 23 Aug 2009 15:59:53 -0800 > > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Mystery snail eggs > > > > > > Dry warm and humid... that's a lot of requirements ;) LOL So should > > > I mist the eggs or is that too much humid? > > > Is just being right above the surface of the water enough? > > > Thanks Pam, > > > Amber > > > > > > pam andress wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > They need to be kept dry and warm and humid to hatch. Takes about > > > > 2 weeks. You will notice the clutch change color a bit before > hatching. > > > > > > > > Congrats! > > > > > > > > Pam > > > > > > > > > > > > Not sure if I should be excited or not, guess I'll wait until all > > > > the babies hatch and start to grow up before I see how over > > > > populated > > I get > > > > on purple mystery snails, LOL. > > > > The eggs were laid last night sometime, so I have some time to > > wait. Is > > > > there anything I should do for the eggs besides not get them > wet? LOL. > > > > > > > > Thanks, > > > > Amber > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 42892	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 8/25/2009
Subject: Re: Mystery snail eggs

The next time you, or anyone else reading this thread, has a water quality problem that might include a contamination, it's very important to run fresh carbon or other chemical filtration, like Purigen, IMMEDIATELY, especially if unable to do a series of PWC's or a large PWC because the water quality issue is being caused by the tap water, like in your case. While chemical filtration is NOT needed full time on most tanks, whenever there is a potential contamination or other water quality issue that will not be using medication, then running fresh carbon can only help and will not hurt. Of course, if the tank is determined to need a medication, then the carbon would have to be removed and should also be removed and trashed after a couple of weeks if simply used to try and clear up a water quality issue or contamination. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Amber Berglund Sent: Tuesday, August 25, 2009 5:31 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Mystery snail eggs I haven't found any dead snails, but one of them keeps trying to climb out (a big dark purple one) but hasn't done so since last night. Perhaps since my water change this morning the tank is better? I keep expecting a dead snail to be in there since the tank is so cloudy, as that was the source of my cloudiness issue last time it happened and once I found the dead snail and removed it, it cleared up rather fast. But if I can't see in the tank it makes it rather hard to find anything at all ;) I pulled a floating snail out this morning and after about 15 minutes I realized it wasn't dead and it was quite mad about being removed from the tank and put in a bowl ;) good thing I didn't just throw him/her away, LOL. That's okay after a quick "out of tank" experience they were put back in ;) I will run some fresh carbon in the HOB (it's easier to get to than opening up the Rena filstar xp4). Amber Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > > > You know... did you add that same hot water to your snail tank? If the > water was bad enough to harm Zebra Danios, then it might also be bad > enough to harm your snails. Keep an eye on them and I should have > mentioned in my first reply about your water issue, run some fresh > carbon or Purigen or some other chemical filtration on your tanks. > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> (Links to any articles referenced in > above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels > and also under Archives by Year, Month) > > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On Behalf Of Amber Berglund > Sent: Tuesday, August 25, 2009 1:44 AM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Mystery snail eggs > > I have another snail that is repeatedly climbing out of the tank as > far as it can go... would it be searching for a good spot to lay eggs > or just higher ground? ;) LOL > > Amber > > pam andress wrote: > > > > > > > > Deffinately more then 2 words Lenny!!! lol But yes that would help. > > > > Pam > > > > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > From: GoldLenny@... <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com> > <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com> > > Date: Sun, 23 Aug 2009 22:15:27 -0500 > > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Mystery snail eggs > > > > Two words... Saran Wrap (or your brand of choice of plastic wrap). > > Or even a towel over the top would keep in much of the humidity. OK... > > maybe that was more than two words. LOL > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>> > (Links to any articles referenced in > > above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under > > Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On Behalf Of Amber Berglund > > Sent: Sunday, August 23, 2009 9:48 PM > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Mystery snail eggs > > > > There is not a top on the tank, so no to that question ;) It's the > > only tank with a top because I kept knocking the versa tops into the > > tank and I was getting angry ;) LOL. > > > > Amber > > > > pam andress wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > Do you have a top on your tank? If so, then that will keep it > > > humid in there. No you don't mist them, you just make sure they > > > stay dry and leave them alone. > > > > > > Pam > > > > > > > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > From: arberglund@... <mailto:arberglund%40gmail.com> > <mailto:arberglund%40gmail.com> > > <mailto:arberglund%40gmail.com> > > > Date: Sun, 23 Aug 2009 15:59:53 -0800 > > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Mystery snail eggs > > > > > > Dry warm and humid... that's a lot of requirements ;) LOL So > > > should I mist the eggs or is that too much humid? > > > Is just being right above the surface of the water enough? > > > Thanks Pam, > > > Amber > > > > > > pam andress wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > They need to be kept dry and warm and humid to hatch. Takes > > > > about > > > > 2 weeks. You will notice the clutch change color a bit before > hatching. > > > > > > > > Congrats! > > > > > > > > Pam > > > > > > > > > > > > Not sure if I should be excited or not, guess I'll wait until > > > > all the babies hatch and start to grow up before I see how over > > > > populated > > I get > > > > on purple mystery snails, LOL. > > > > The eggs were laid last night sometime, so I have some time to > > wait. Is > > > > there anything I should do for the eggs besides not get them > wet? LOL. > > > > > > > > Thanks, > > > > Amber

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 42893	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 8/25/2009
Subject: Re: Mystery snail eggs

Oh and instead of Saran wrap I used a piece of paper towel that I draped over into the tank with just the edge touching the water, to soak up water and keep it moist, hanging over the eggs, I figured it would keep it moist and it doesn't touch the eggs at the same time. Is this too moist or will it suffice? Amber Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > > > Two words... Saran Wrap (or your brand of choice of plastic wrap). Or even > a towel over the top would keep in much of the humidity. OK... maybe that > was more than two words. LOL > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right > side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) > > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On > Behalf Of Amber Berglund > Sent: Sunday, August 23, 2009 9:48 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Mystery snail eggs > > There is not a top on the tank, so no to that question ;) It's the > only tank > with a top because I kept knocking the versa tops into the tank and I was > getting angry ;) LOL. > > Amber > > pam andress wrote: > > > > > > > > Do you have a top on your tank? If so, then that will keep it humid in > > there. No you don't mist them, you just make sure they stay dry and > > leave them alone. > > > > Pam > > > > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > From: arberglund@... <mailto:arberglund%40gmail.com> > <mailto:arberglund%40gmail.com> > > Date: Sun, 23 Aug 2009 15:59:53 -0800 > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Mystery snail eggs > > > > Dry warm and humid... that's a lot of requirements ;) LOL > > So should I mist the eggs or is that too much humid? > > Is just being right above the surface of the water enough? > > Thanks Pam, > > Amber > > > > pam andress wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > They need to be kept dry and warm and humid to hatch. Takes about 2 > > > weeks. You will notice the clutch change color a bit before hatching. > > > > > > Congrats! > > > > > > Pam > > > > > > > > > Not sure if I should be excited or not, guess I'll wait until all the > > > babies hatch and start to grow up before I see how over populated > I get > > > on purple mystery snails, LOL. > > > The eggs were laid last night sometime, so I have some time to > wait. Is > > > there anything I should do for the eggs besides not get them wet? LOL. > > > > > > Thanks, > > > Amber > > > > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 42894	From: pam andress	Date: 8/25/2009
Subject: Re: Mystery snail eggs

I would think that would drip water out of your tank when the paper towel absorbs more water. I would use a dry towel or the plastic wrap to keep in the humidity. Pam To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com From: arberglund@... Date: Tue, 25 Aug 2009 18:02:54 -0800 Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Mystery snail eggs Oh and instead of Saran wrap I used a piece of paper towel that I draped over into the tank with just the edge touching the water, to soak up water and keep it moist, hanging over the eggs, I figured it would keep it moist and it doesn't touch the eggs at the same time. Is this too moist or will it suffice? Amber Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > > > Two words... Saran Wrap (or your brand of choice of plastic wrap). Or even > a towel over the top would keep in much of the humidity. OK... maybe that > was more than two words. LOL > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right > side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) > > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On > Behalf Of Amber Berglund > Sent: Sunday, August 23, 2009 9:48 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Mystery snail eggs > > There is not a top on the tank, so no to that question ;) It's the > only tank > with a top because I kept knocking the versa tops into the tank and I was > getting angry ;) LOL. > > Amber > > pam andress wrote: > > > > > > > > Do you have a top on your tank? If so, then that will keep it humid in > > there. No you don't mist them, you just make sure they stay dry and > > leave them alone. > > > > Pam > > > > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > From: arberglund@... <mailto:arberglund%40gmail.com> > <mailto:arberglund%40gmail.com> > > Date: Sun, 23 Aug 2009 15:59:53 -0800 > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Mystery snail eggs > > > > Dry warm and humid... that's a lot of requirements ;) LOL > > So should I mist the eggs or is that too much humid? > > Is just being right above the surface of the water enough? > > Thanks Pam, > > Amber > > > > pam andress wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > They need to be kept dry and warm and humid to hatch. Takes about 2 > > > weeks. You will notice the clutch change color a bit before hatching. > > > > > > Congrats! > > > > > > Pam > > > > > > > > > Not sure if I should be excited or not, guess I'll wait until all the > > > babies hatch and start to grow up before I see how over populated > I get > > > on purple mystery snails, LOL. > > > The eggs were laid last night sometime, so I have some time to > wait. Is > > > there anything I should do for the eggs besides not get them wet? LOL. > > > > > > Thanks, > > > Amber > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 42895	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 8/25/2009
Subject: Re: Mystery snail eggs

I shortened it ;) I haven't noticed it dripping so far, but the longer end is in the tank. I can switch to saran wrap instead if it's more recommended, do I need to cover the whole top or just the eggs? Amber pam andress wrote: > > > > I would think that would drip water out of your tank when the paper > towel absorbs more water. I would use a dry towel or the plastic wrap > to keep in the humidity. > > Pam > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > From: arberglund@... <mailto:arberglund%40gmail.com> > Date: Tue, 25 Aug 2009 18:02:54 -0800 > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Mystery snail eggs > > Oh and instead of Saran wrap I used a piece of paper towel that I draped > over into the tank with just the edge touching the water, to soak up > water and keep it moist, hanging over the eggs, I figured it would keep > it moist and it doesn't touch the eggs at the same time. > Is this too moist or will it suffice? > > Amber > > Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > > > > > > Two words... Saran Wrap (or your brand of choice of plastic wrap). > Or even > > a towel over the top would keep in much of the humidity. OK... maybe > that > > was more than two words. LOL > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>> > > (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right > > side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, > Month) > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On > > Behalf Of Amber Berglund > > Sent: Sunday, August 23, 2009 9:48 PM > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Mystery snail eggs > > > > There is not a top on the tank, so no to that question ;) It's the > > only tank > > with a top because I kept knocking the versa tops into the tank and > I was > > getting angry ;) LOL. > > > > Amber > > > > pam andress wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > Do you have a top on your tank? If so, then that will keep it humid in > > > there. No you don't mist them, you just make sure they stay dry and > > > leave them alone. > > > > > > Pam > > > > > > > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > From: arberglund@... <mailto:arberglund%40gmail.com> > <mailto:arberglund%40gmail.com> > > <mailto:arberglund%40gmail.com> > > > Date: Sun, 23 Aug 2009 15:59:53 -0800 > > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Mystery snail eggs > > > > > > Dry warm and humid... that's a lot of requirements ;) LOL > > > So should I mist the eggs or is that too much humid? > > > Is just being right above the surface of the water enough? > > > Thanks Pam, > > > Amber > > > > > > pam andress wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > They need to be kept dry and warm and humid to hatch. Takes about 2 > > > > weeks. You will notice the clutch change color a bit before > hatching. > > > > > > > > Congrats! > > > > > > > > Pam > > > > > > > > > > > > Not sure if I should be excited or not, guess I'll wait until > all the > > > > babies hatch and start to grow up before I see how over populated > > I get > > > > on purple mystery snails, LOL. > > > > The eggs were laid last night sometime, so I have some time to > > wait. Is > > > > there anything I should do for the eggs besides not get them > wet? LOL. > > > > > > > > Thanks, > > > > Amber > > > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 42896	From: cat.rose	Date: 8/25/2009
Subject: Re Re: Bloated Guppy (he died last night)

Hi Lenny, I got my test kits and here are my results: Did 25% PWC last night. Tonight my results are: PH = 5.0 GH = 10 KH = 2 NH3 = 0.25 (or maybe a little less) NO2- = <0.3 NO3 = 80-160 (color not quite as dark as 160, but darker than 80) Tap Water Baseline PH = 7.0 GH = 5 KH = 3 NH3 = 0 NO2- = <0.3 NO3 = 0-5.0 Tap Water after 24 hours PH = 8.0 GH = 5 KH = 3 NH3 = 0 NO2- = <0.3 NO3 = (didn't have test kit at that point, but I don't want to wait to post this) I stopped using all chemicals except got a dechlor product as you instructed. Hi Lenny, I got my test kits and here are my results: Did 25% PWC last night. Tonight my results are: PH = 5.0 GH = 10 KH = 2 NH3 = 0.25 (or maybe a little less) NO2- = <0.3 NO3 = 80-160 (color not quite as dark as 160, but darker than 80) Tap Water Baseline PH = 7.0 GH = 5 KH = 3 NH3 = 0 NO2- = <0.3 NO3 = 0-5.0 --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@...> wrote: > > Awww.. sorry to hear about your guppy. I wish we could have figured out > what was wrong. Are any of the other fish showing any symptoms? Don't > overly worry if they aren't. Quite often, a single fish will succumb to a > *bug* that the other fish are able to resist, just like us humans, where one > person in the home/office might get sick but that does not mean we all will. > > How old was this male guppy... I'm guessing still pretty young since you've > only had the tank since February 2009 but I wanted to check? Even if not > age related, some fish simply have weaker immune systems than other fish and > will get sick easier when stressed (and see below about your filter cleaning > which could have caused the stress issue). > > First thing you need to do is QUIT using all of the various bottled > chemicals. The only thing you should be using is a simple dechlor product > that also treats for heavy metals. 99% of fish keepers DO NOT need any of > the stress-this or slime-that or pH changing chemicals... or the Cycle or > Waste Control products either. They simply are not needed and basically > will turn your tank into a chemical waste dump instead of a *freshwater* > tank. > > Just keep up with your weekly tank maintenance, gravel vacuuming, 25% PWC's > and PROPER filter cleaning and maintenance. I mention PROPER filter > cleaning and maintenance as I see that you've fallen for the > replace-the-filter-cartridge scam that filter companies put in their > instructions. This is actually BAD for your tank if not done properly. Go > to my blog and read my LONG article on "Filter Maintenance And Cleaning" so > you do not repeat your past mistakes. > > There's a good chance that when you completely cleaned your filter two weeks > ago, this caused a Cycling Issue in your tank and the product, Cycle, does > not solve this issue. > > Do you have a master test kit for checking ammonia, nitrite, nitrate, pH, GH > and KH? If not, quit buying all the bottled chemical crap and spend $15-$17 > on a decent Master Test Kit. Either the API or Tetra-Laborette master test > kits can be bought online at Walmart.com for that price range.. with free > shipping to your local store. This test kit will last you at least a year > and it's the best investment you can make for your fish, instead of all the > bottled crap that some stores push on people. > > Once you get a test kit, we can test your tank but also do a Tap Water > Baseline test, which is very important to know when first starting out. > While at my blog, also read my article "Find Your Tap Water Baseline" so you > will understand this process when you get your test kit. > > Are you planning on a larger fish tank? If not, your 10G tank is on the > small side for the types of fish you are keeping. While at my blog, also > check out the article, "10 Gallon Tank Stocking Suggestions". As you will > see, livebearers like guppies and platys are not the best choices unless you > go with all males, otherwise they can easily overwhelm a tank with their > breeding. The GloFish (Zebra Danios) should be kept in schools of at least > six but with your other fish, you do not have the room for six of them and > six of them would be overcrowded in a 10G tank anyhow since they are such > fast swimmers and a 10G tank doesn't really give them room to swim around as > a school. If you bought your fish at a LFS (Local Fish Store), ask them if > they will take the two GloFish back for store credit. If you bought them at > a big box pet store, they probably won't take them back but you can still > ask since they should not have sold you the fish in the first place. > > Another thing, while at my blog, go to my page "A to Z of Fish Keeping" and > take one or both of the free online tutorials, which will walk you through a > lot of what I've said above and in my articles and keep you from making some > of the most common mistakes in the future. > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right > side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) > > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On > Behalf Of cat.rose > Sent: Tuesday, August 04, 2009 10:16 AM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re Re: Bloated Guppy (he died last night) > > Thank you Lenny! > > Well, my little guppy died last night... He was alive when I fed them, and > then later I couldn't find him, but he was laying on the bottom in the back. > > I have been giving them all peas like you suggested. Hopefully this won't > happen to any of the other fish. > > Here are answers to the help questionnaire: > > Tank size: 10 gal > > Tank inhabitants (number and type of fish or other aquatic life): 3 (now 2) > guppies, 3 platy (1 is a 1/2 in baby that was recently discovered!), 2 > GloFish Water change amount and when the last one was done: 25% PWC done > weekly (last one was Wed 7/29) > > Filter maintenance and what exactly did you do: I follow the instructions on > the box for replacing the 3 different filter mediums. About 2 weeks ago I > took filter apart and cleaned parts thoroughly. > > How long the tank has been set up: February 2009 Water or filter additives > or pH adjusters used: Cycle, Stress Coat (weekly). > Used pH increase but stopped because it didn't seem to be working. > > Recent (within 2 weeks) changes or additions to the tank: Nutrifin Waste > Control. I've used this twice which is supposed to help with pH, etc (not a > Buffer, they were out of that product). > > Full description of the problem you have been having, including any odd > behavior of the inhabitants or appearance of the tank or inhabitants. some > common examples are: > > Fish behavior- > breathing rapidly > hanging at surface > > Fish appearance- > bloated stomach > > Tank appearance- > clear > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@> > wrote: > > > > What else do you have in the tank that he is in? > > > > Try feeding him green pea "meat" which is a natural laxative to most fish. > I use frozen green peas but unsalted from a can will also work. Of course > fresh work as well. Take a single pea and pinch the pea so the "meat" pops > out of the skin, discard the skin and then mash up the two halves a little > and feed a little to the guppy... as much as he will eat. Your other fish > will also like this and it's OK to feed them pea "meat" as well.. even if > they are not bloated. > > > > Now.. the bloating could be from more than simple constipation but lets > eliminate that possibility first. He could be staying at the top of the tank > due to swim bladder issues caused by the constipation and the gulping could > just be from the added stress from not being able to control his buoyancy. > Of course, all of these issues could also be related to internal bacterial > or parasitic issues. > > > > Can you at least move him to a separate container of any type? I've used > clear Sterilite storage boxes for this purpose. When not being used for a > Q-tank or H-tank, you can store your fish stuff in the box. > > > > While it's certainly best to have a fully set up H-tank, with a cycled > filter, if none is available then a simple container that holds enough water > for the size fish... a few gallons in the case of a single guppy... and an > air stone to help circulate the water will at least give you an easier way > to isolate and observe the guppy to see if he is pooping and what the poop > looks like. Fish poop observation is a very good first step in trying to > diagnose fish problems. > > > > Go to my blog and see my most recent blog which is a Sick Fish > Questionnaire and give us as much info as possible and we can give more > help. > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles > > referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically > > under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] > > On Behalf Of cat.rose > > Sent: Sunday, August 02, 2009 9:42 PM > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > Subject: [AquaticLife] Bloated Guppy > > > > My male guppy has been bloated for a couple days, and today he's stayed at > the top of the tank gulping air constantly. He does not have any raised > scales, and he's been eating. I don't have any other tank/equipment to move > him to. > > > > Help please! > > Catherine >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 42897	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 8/25/2009
Subject: Re: Re Re: Bloated Guppy (he died last night)

You need more KH and GH I recommend adding a small amount of either crushed coral or a chunk of cuttlebone that you can get from a the pet store in the bird selection. Keep an eye on your KH and GH and see how high they get, you don't want them too high, but your pH is crashing because you don't have enough KH and GH to keep the pH up, your tank pH should be much higher than 5 if your tapwater pH raises to 8 after 24 hours... Be careful doing PWC's as your tap water pH is way higher than your tank, I would only do 5% or so at a time, perhaps daily instead of a weekly PWC. Amber cat.rose wrote: > > > Hi Lenny, > > I got my test kits and here are my results: > > Did 25% PWC last night. Tonight my results are: > > PH = 5.0 > GH = 10 > KH = 2 > NH3 = 0.25 (or maybe a little less) > NO2- = <0.3 > NO3 = 80-160 (color not quite as dark as 160, but darker than 80) > > Tap Water Baseline > PH = 7.0 > GH = 5 > KH = 3 > NH3 = 0 > NO2- = <0.3 > NO3 = 0-5.0 > > Tap Water after 24 hours > PH = 8.0 > GH = 5 > KH = 3 > NH3 = 0 > NO2- = <0.3 > NO3 = (didn't have test kit at that point, but I don't want to wait to > post this) > > I stopped using all chemicals except got a dechlor product as you > instructed. > > Hi Lenny, > > I got my test kits and here are my results: > > Did 25% PWC last night. Tonight my results are: > > PH = 5.0 > GH = 10 > KH = 2 > NH3 = 0.25 (or maybe a little less) > NO2- = <0.3 > NO3 = 80-160 (color not quite as dark as 160, but darker than 80) > > Tap Water Baseline > PH = 7.0 > GH = 5 > KH = 3 > NH3 = 0 > NO2- = <0.3 > NO3 = 0-5.0 > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>, "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" > <GoldLenny@...> wrote: > > > > Awww.. sorry to hear about your guppy. I wish we could have figured out > > what was wrong. Are any of the other fish showing any symptoms? Don't > > overly worry if they aren't. Quite often, a single fish will succumb > to a > > *bug* that the other fish are able to resist, just like us humans, > where one > > person in the home/office might get sick but that does not mean we > all will. > > > > How old was this male guppy... I'm guessing still pretty young since > you've > > only had the tank since February 2009 but I wanted to check? Even if not > > age related, some fish simply have weaker immune systems than other > fish and > > will get sick easier when stressed (and see below about your filter > cleaning > > which could have caused the stress issue). > > > > First thing you need to do is QUIT using all of the various bottled > > chemicals. The only thing you should be using is a simple dechlor > product > > that also treats for heavy metals. 99% of fish keepers DO NOT need > any of > > the stress-this or slime-that or pH changing chemicals... or the > Cycle or > > Waste Control products either. They simply are not needed and basically > > will turn your tank into a chemical waste dump instead of a *freshwater* > > tank. > > > > Just keep up with your weekly tank maintenance, gravel vacuuming, > 25% PWC's > > and PROPER filter cleaning and maintenance. I mention PROPER filter > > cleaning and maintenance as I see that you've fallen for the > > replace-the-filter-cartridge scam that filter companies put in their > > instructions. This is actually BAD for your tank if not done > properly. Go > > to my blog and read my LONG article on "Filter Maintenance And > Cleaning" so > > you do not repeat your past mistakes. > > > > There's a good chance that when you completely cleaned your filter > two weeks > > ago, this caused a Cycling Issue in your tank and the product, > Cycle, does > > not solve this issue. > > > > Do you have a master test kit for checking ammonia, nitrite, > nitrate, pH, GH > > and KH? If not, quit buying all the bottled chemical crap and spend > $15-$17 > > on a decent Master Test Kit. Either the API or Tetra-Laborette > master test > > kits can be bought online at Walmart.com for that price range.. with > free > > shipping to your local store. This test kit will last you at least a > year > > and it's the best investment you can make for your fish, instead of > all the > > bottled crap that some stores push on people. > > > > Once you get a test kit, we can test your tank but also do a Tap Water > > Baseline test, which is very important to know when first starting out. > > While at my blog, also read my article "Find Your Tap Water > Baseline" so you > > will understand this process when you get your test kit. > > > > Are you planning on a larger fish tank? If not, your 10G tank is on the > > small side for the types of fish you are keeping. While at my blog, also > > check out the article, "10 Gallon Tank Stocking Suggestions". As you > will > > see, livebearers like guppies and platys are not the best choices > unless you > > go with all males, otherwise they can easily overwhelm a tank with their > > breeding. The GloFish (Zebra Danios) should be kept in schools of at > least > > six but with your other fish, you do not have the room for six of > them and > > six of them would be overcrowded in a 10G tank anyhow since they are > such > > fast swimmers and a 10G tank doesn't really give them room to swim > around as > > a school. If you bought your fish at a LFS (Local Fish Store), ask > them if > > they will take the two GloFish back for store credit. If you bought > them at > > a big box pet store, they probably won't take them back but you can > still > > ask since they should not have sold you the fish in the first place. > > > > Another thing, while at my blog, go to my page "A to Z of Fish > Keeping" and > > take one or both of the free online tutorials, which will walk you > through a > > lot of what I've said above and in my articles and keep you from > making some > > of the most common mistakes in the future. > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right > > side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, > Month) > > > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On > > Behalf Of cat.rose > > Sent: Tuesday, August 04, 2009 10:16 AM > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re Re: Bloated Guppy (he died last night) > > > > Thank you Lenny! > > > > Well, my little guppy died last night... He was alive when I fed > them, and > > then later I couldn't find him, but he was laying on the bottom in > the back. > > > > I have been giving them all peas like you suggested. Hopefully this > won't > > happen to any of the other fish. > > > > Here are answers to the help questionnaire: > > > > Tank size: 10 gal > > > > Tank inhabitants (number and type of fish or other aquatic life): 3 > (now 2) > > guppies, 3 platy (1 is a 1/2 in baby that was recently discovered!), 2 > > GloFish Water change amount and when the last one was done: 25% PWC done > > weekly (last one was Wed 7/29) > > > > Filter maintenance and what exactly did you do: I follow the > instructions on > > the box for replacing the 3 different filter mediums. About 2 weeks > ago I > > took filter apart and cleaned parts thoroughly. > > > > How long the tank has been set up: February 2009 Water or filter > additives > > or pH adjusters used: Cycle, Stress Coat (weekly). > > Used pH increase but stopped because it didn't seem to be working. > > > > Recent (within 2 weeks) changes or additions to the tank: Nutrifin Waste > > Control. I've used this twice which is supposed to help with pH, etc > (not a > > Buffer, they were out of that product). > > > > Full description of the problem you have been having, including any odd > > behavior of the inhabitants or appearance of the tank or > inhabitants. some > > common examples are: > > > > Fish behavior- > > breathing rapidly > > hanging at surface > > > > Fish appearance- > > bloated stomach > > > > Tank appearance- > > clear > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>, "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" > <GoldLenny@> > > wrote: > > > > > > What else do you have in the tank that he is in? > > > > > > Try feeding him green pea "meat" which is a natural laxative to > most fish. > > I use frozen green peas but unsalted from a can will also work. Of > course > > fresh work as well. Take a single pea and pinch the pea so the > "meat" pops > > out of the skin, discard the skin and then mash up the two halves a > little > > and feed a little to the guppy... as much as he will eat. Your other > fish > > will also like this and it's OK to feed them pea "meat" as well.. > even if > > they are not bloated. > > > > > > Now.. the bloating could be from more than simple constipation but > lets > > eliminate that possibility first. He could be staying at the top of > the tank > > due to swim bladder issues caused by the constipation and the > gulping could > > just be from the added stress from not being able to control his > buoyancy. > > Of course, all of these issues could also be related to internal > bacterial > > or parasitic issues. > > > > > > Can you at least move him to a separate container of any type? > I've used > > clear Sterilite storage boxes for this purpose. When not being used > for a > > Q-tank or H-tank, you can store your fish stuff in the box. > > > > > > While it's certainly best to have a fully set up H-tank, with a cycled > > filter, if none is available then a simple container that holds > enough water > > for the size fish... a few gallons in the case of a single guppy... > and an > > air stone to help circulate the water will at least give you an > easier way > > to isolate and observe the guppy to see if he is pooping and what > the poop > > looks like. Fish poop observation is a very good first step in trying to > > diagnose fish problems. > > > > > > Go to my blog and see my most recent blog which is a Sick Fish > > Questionnaire and give us as much info as possible and we can give more > > help. > > > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> (Links to any articles > > > referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, > alphabetically > > > under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) > > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] > > > On Behalf Of cat.rose > > > Sent: Sunday, August 02, 2009 9:42 PM > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > Subject: [AquaticLife] Bloated Guppy > > > > > > My male guppy has been bloated for a couple days, and today he's > stayed at > > the top of the tank gulping air constantly. He does not have any raised > > scales, and he's been eating. I don't have any other tank/equipment > to move > > him to. > > > > > > Help please! > > > Catherine > > > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 42898	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 8/25/2009
Subject: Re: Re Re: Bloated Guppy (he died last night)

I realize this is probably your right out the tap water tests so you need to keep that water and re-test it at 48 hours to see if the numbers change from the 24 hour test numbers. As far as your tank, your pH is much lower than your initial tap water pH and this was after a 25% PWC so it was probably lower before the PWC. It looks like you need to start doing more/better tank maintenance, such as vacuuming your gravel better (see the other thread that is going on right now about gravel vacuuming) since you have slight ammonia and nitrite issues but a moderately high nitrate level and this was after the 25% PWC as well. Your ammonia and nitrite levels are likely due to excess detritus decaying and putting out more ammonia than your biological filtration can handle. You need to be very careful when doing filter cleaning/maintenance until you get your tank back into good shape. Read and/or re-read my article on proper "Filter Maintenance And Cleaning" so you do not repeat those common mistakes. You should probably start doing a 10% PWC each day (with vacuuming the gravel as much as possible each day) until your pH slowly climbs up closer to the 8.0 pH range from your tap. This will also slowly lower the nitrate level to get it down below 40ppm and preferably closer to 20ppm. Test the water before the PWC and after the PWC. If you do not see the nitrates coming down and the pH slowly rising with each PWC, you might have to increase it to two 10% PWC's each day until things are in good shape again. You have to do the daily or twice daily 10% PWC's, not 25% and definitely not more, as you need to slowly change the water parameters back into good shape since the fish slowly acclimated to these bad parameters and if you change the water too much, too fast, it could be just as bad or worse than the bad water right now. After a week or so of daily or twice daily 10% changes, test your water and let us know the numbers. Also let us know the 48 hour test results on your tap water. Part of the reason your pH is so much lower in the tank than the tap is likely due to excess detritus in the gravel OR your nitrates have been really high for a long time. I'm surprised your GH numbers climbed from 5dH (tap) to 10dH (tank). This likely means you have something in your tank that is leaching hardness into the water. What kind of substrate do you have... or have you used any kinds of chemicals? Your KH of 3dh from the tap is on the low side but sufficient for a properly maintained tank with a proper bioload. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of cat.rose Sent: Tuesday, August 25, 2009 9:31 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Re Re: Bloated Guppy (he died last night) Hi Lenny, I got my test kits and here are my results: Did 25% PWC last night. Tonight my results are: PH = 5.0 GH = 10 KH = 2 NH3 = 0.25 (or maybe a little less) NO2- = <0.3 NO3 = 80-160 (color not quite as dark as 160, but darker than 80) Tap Water Baseline PH = 7.0 GH = 5 KH = 3 NH3 = 0 NO2- = <0.3 NO3 = 0-5.0 Tap Water after 24 hours PH = 8.0 GH = 5 KH = 3 NH3 = 0 NO2- = <0.3 NO3 = (didn't have test kit at that point, but I don't want to wait to post this) I stopped using all chemicals except got a dechlor product as you instructed. Hi Lenny, I got my test kits and here are my results: Did 25% PWC last night. Tonight my results are: PH = 5.0 GH = 10 KH = 2 NH3 = 0.25 (or maybe a little less) NO2- = <0.3 NO3 = 80-160 (color not quite as dark as 160, but darker than 80) Tap Water Baseline PH = 7.0 GH = 5 KH = 3 NH3 = 0 NO2- = <0.3 NO3 = 0-5.0 --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@...> wrote: > > Awww.. sorry to hear about your guppy. I wish we could have figured > out what was wrong. Are any of the other fish showing any symptoms? > Don't overly worry if they aren't. Quite often, a single fish will > succumb to a > *bug* that the other fish are able to resist, just like us humans, > where one person in the home/office might get sick but that does not mean we all will. > > How old was this male guppy... I'm guessing still pretty young since > you've only had the tank since February 2009 but I wanted to check? > Even if not age related, some fish simply have weaker immune systems > than other fish and will get sick easier when stressed (and see below > about your filter cleaning which could have caused the stress issue). > > First thing you need to do is QUIT using all of the various bottled > chemicals. The only thing you should be using is a simple dechlor > product that also treats for heavy metals. 99% of fish keepers DO NOT > need any of the stress-this or slime-that or pH changing chemicals... > or the Cycle or Waste Control products either. They simply are not > needed and basically will turn your tank into a chemical waste dump > instead of a *freshwater* tank. > > Just keep up with your weekly tank maintenance, gravel vacuuming, 25% > PWC's and PROPER filter cleaning and maintenance. I mention PROPER > filter cleaning and maintenance as I see that you've fallen for the > replace-the-filter-cartridge scam that filter companies put in their > instructions. This is actually BAD for your tank if not done > properly. Go to my blog and read my LONG article on "Filter > Maintenance And Cleaning" so you do not repeat your past mistakes. > > There's a good chance that when you completely cleaned your filter two > weeks ago, this caused a Cycling Issue in your tank and the product, > Cycle, does not solve this issue. > > Do you have a master test kit for checking ammonia, nitrite, nitrate, > pH, GH and KH? If not, quit buying all the bottled chemical crap and > spend $15-$17 on a decent Master Test Kit. Either the API or > Tetra-Laborette master test kits can be bought online at Walmart.com > for that price range.. with free shipping to your local store. This > test kit will last you at least a year and it's the best investment > you can make for your fish, instead of all the bottled crap that some stores push on people. > > Once you get a test kit, we can test your tank but also do a Tap Water > Baseline test, which is very important to know when first starting out. > While at my blog, also read my article "Find Your Tap Water Baseline" > so you will understand this process when you get your test kit. > > Are you planning on a larger fish tank? If not, your 10G tank is on > the small side for the types of fish you are keeping. While at my > blog, also check out the article, "10 Gallon Tank Stocking > Suggestions". As you will see, livebearers like guppies and platys > are not the best choices unless you go with all males, otherwise they > can easily overwhelm a tank with their breeding. The GloFish (Zebra > Danios) should be kept in schools of at least six but with your other > fish, you do not have the room for six of them and six of them would > be overcrowded in a 10G tank anyhow since they are such fast swimmers > and a 10G tank doesn't really give them room to swim around as a > school. If you bought your fish at a LFS (Local Fish Store), ask them > if they will take the two GloFish back for store credit. If you > bought them at a big box pet store, they probably won't take them back but you can still ask since they should not have sold you the fish in the first place. > > Another thing, while at my blog, go to my page "A to Z of Fish > Keeping" and take one or both of the free online tutorials, which will > walk you through a lot of what I've said above and in my articles and > keep you from making some of the most common mistakes in the future. > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles > referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically > under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) > > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] > On Behalf Of cat.rose > Sent: Tuesday, August 04, 2009 10:16 AM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re Re: Bloated Guppy (he died last night) > > Thank you Lenny! > > Well, my little guppy died last night... He was alive when I fed them, > and then later I couldn't find him, but he was laying on the bottom in the back. > > I have been giving them all peas like you suggested. Hopefully this > won't happen to any of the other fish. > > Here are answers to the help questionnaire: > > Tank size: 10 gal > > Tank inhabitants (number and type of fish or other aquatic life): 3 > (now 2) guppies, 3 platy (1 is a 1/2 in baby that was recently > discovered!), 2 GloFish Water change amount and when the last one was > done: 25% PWC done weekly (last one was Wed 7/29) > > Filter maintenance and what exactly did you do: I follow the > instructions on the box for replacing the 3 different filter mediums. > About 2 weeks ago I took filter apart and cleaned parts thoroughly. > > How long the tank has been set up: February 2009 Water or filter > additives or pH adjusters used: Cycle, Stress Coat (weekly). > Used pH increase but stopped because it didn't seem to be working. > > Recent (within 2 weeks) changes or additions to the tank: Nutrifin > Waste Control. I've used this twice which is supposed to help with pH, > etc (not a Buffer, they were out of that product). > > Full description of the problem you have been having, including any > odd behavior of the inhabitants or appearance of the tank or > inhabitants. some common examples are: > > Fish behavior- > breathing rapidly > hanging at surface > > Fish appearance- > bloated stomach > > Tank appearance- > clear > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" > <GoldLenny@> > wrote: > > > > What else do you have in the tank that he is in? > > > > Try feeding him green pea "meat" which is a natural laxative to most fish. > I use frozen green peas but unsalted from a can will also work. Of > course fresh work as well. Take a single pea and pinch the pea so the > "meat" pops out of the skin, discard the skin and then mash up the two > halves a little and feed a little to the guppy... as much as he will > eat. Your other fish will also like this and it's OK to feed them pea > "meat" as well.. even if they are not bloated. > > > > Now.. the bloating could be from more than simple constipation but > > lets > eliminate that possibility first. He could be staying at the top of > the tank due to swim bladder issues caused by the constipation and the > gulping could just be from the added stress from not being able to control his buoyancy. > Of course, all of these issues could also be related to internal > bacterial or parasitic issues. > > > > Can you at least move him to a separate container of any type? I've > > used > clear Sterilite storage boxes for this purpose. When not being used > for a Q-tank or H-tank, you can store your fish stuff in the box. > > > > While it's certainly best to have a fully set up H-tank, with a > > cycled > filter, if none is available then a simple container that holds enough > water for the size fish... a few gallons in the case of a single > guppy... and an air stone to help circulate the water will at least > give you an easier way to isolate and observe the guppy to see if he > is pooping and what the poop looks like. Fish poop observation is a > very good first step in trying to diagnose fish problems. > > > > Go to my blog and see my most recent blog which is a Sick Fish > Questionnaire and give us as much info as possible and we can give > more help. > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles > > referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, > > alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] > > On Behalf Of cat.rose > > Sent: Sunday, August 02, 2009 9:42 PM > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > Subject: [AquaticLife] Bloated Guppy > > > > My male guppy has been bloated for a couple days, and today he's > > stayed at > the top of the tank gulping air constantly. He does not have any > raised scales, and he's been eating. I don't have any other > tank/equipment to move him to. > > > > Help please! > > Catherine

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 42899	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 8/25/2009
Subject: Re: Re Re: Bloated Guppy (he died last night)

Not yet Amber. We need to get the tank back in good shape as far as the pH and nitrates go, just from doing PWC's and removing excess detritus and then see how things are going. After that, we'll see what kind of fish she has and what needs or doesn't need to be done at that point. The KH in the tank is 2dH which is OK. It's only when the KH level gets down close to 0dH that a pH crash can happen. As long as there is some KH prior to each PWC, then the tank is OK. It just needs a lot of slow TLC for right now to bring it back to good shape without further stressing or shocking the fish. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Amber Berglund Sent: Tuesday, August 25, 2009 10:01 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re Re: Bloated Guppy (he died last night) You need more KH and GH I recommend adding a small amount of either crushed coral or a chunk of cuttlebone that you can get from a the pet store in the bird selection. Keep an eye on your KH and GH and see how high they get, you don't want them too high, but your pH is crashing because you don't have enough KH and GH to keep the pH up, your tank pH should be much higher than 5 if your tapwater pH raises to 8 after 24 hours... Be careful doing PWC's as your tap water pH is way higher than your tank, I would only do 5% or so at a time, perhaps daily instead of a weekly PWC. Amber cat.rose wrote: > > > Hi Lenny, > > I got my test kits and here are my results: > > Did 25% PWC last night. Tonight my results are: > > PH = 5.0 > GH = 10 > KH = 2 > NH3 = 0.25 (or maybe a little less) > NO2- = <0.3 > NO3 = 80-160 (color not quite as dark as 160, but darker than 80) > > Tap Water Baseline > PH = 7.0 > GH = 5 > KH = 3 > NH3 = 0 > NO2- = <0.3 > NO3 = 0-5.0 > > Tap Water after 24 hours > PH = 8.0 > GH = 5 > KH = 3 > NH3 = 0 > NO2- = <0.3 > NO3 = (didn't have test kit at that point, but I don't want to wait to > post this) > > I stopped using all chemicals except got a dechlor product as you > instructed. > > Hi Lenny, > > I got my test kits and here are my results: > > Did 25% PWC last night. Tonight my results are: > > PH = 5.0 > GH = 10 > KH = 2 > NH3 = 0.25 (or maybe a little less) > NO2- = <0.3 > NO3 = 80-160 (color not quite as dark as 160, but darker than 80) > > Tap Water Baseline > PH = 7.0 > GH = 5 > KH = 3 > NH3 = 0 > NO2- = <0.3 > NO3 = 0-5.0 > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>, "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" > <GoldLenny@...> wrote: > > > > Awww.. sorry to hear about your guppy. I wish we could have figured > > out what was wrong. Are any of the other fish showing any symptoms? > > Don't overly worry if they aren't. Quite often, a single fish will > > succumb > to a > > *bug* that the other fish are able to resist, just like us humans, > where one > > person in the home/office might get sick but that does not mean we > all will. > > > > How old was this male guppy... I'm guessing still pretty young since > you've > > only had the tank since February 2009 but I wanted to check? Even if > > not age related, some fish simply have weaker immune systems than > > other > fish and > > will get sick easier when stressed (and see below about your filter > cleaning > > which could have caused the stress issue). > > > > First thing you need to do is QUIT using all of the various bottled > > chemicals. The only thing you should be using is a simple dechlor > product > > that also treats for heavy metals. 99% of fish keepers DO NOT need > any of > > the stress-this or slime-that or pH changing chemicals... or the > Cycle or > > Waste Control products either. They simply are not needed and > > basically will turn your tank into a chemical waste dump instead of > > a *freshwater* tank. > > > > Just keep up with your weekly tank maintenance, gravel vacuuming, > 25% PWC's > > and PROPER filter cleaning and maintenance. I mention PROPER filter > > cleaning and maintenance as I see that you've fallen for the > > replace-the-filter-cartridge scam that filter companies put in their > > instructions. This is actually BAD for your tank if not done > properly. Go > > to my blog and read my LONG article on "Filter Maintenance And > Cleaning" so > > you do not repeat your past mistakes. > > > > There's a good chance that when you completely cleaned your filter > two weeks > > ago, this caused a Cycling Issue in your tank and the product, > Cycle, does > > not solve this issue. > > > > Do you have a master test kit for checking ammonia, nitrite, > nitrate, pH, GH > > and KH? If not, quit buying all the bottled chemical crap and spend > $15-$17 > > on a decent Master Test Kit. Either the API or Tetra-Laborette > master test > > kits can be bought online at Walmart.com for that price range.. with > free > > shipping to your local store. This test kit will last you at least a > year > > and it's the best investment you can make for your fish, instead of > all the > > bottled crap that some stores push on people. > > > > Once you get a test kit, we can test your tank but also do a Tap > > Water Baseline test, which is very important to know when first starting out. > > While at my blog, also read my article "Find Your Tap Water > Baseline" so you > > will understand this process when you get your test kit. > > > > Are you planning on a larger fish tank? If not, your 10G tank is on > > the small side for the types of fish you are keeping. While at my > > blog, also check out the article, "10 Gallon Tank Stocking > > Suggestions". As you > will > > see, livebearers like guppies and platys are not the best choices > unless you > > go with all males, otherwise they can easily overwhelm a tank with > > their breeding. The GloFish (Zebra Danios) should be kept in schools > > of at > least > > six but with your other fish, you do not have the room for six of > them and > > six of them would be overcrowded in a 10G tank anyhow since they are > such > > fast swimmers and a 10G tank doesn't really give them room to swim > around as > > a school. If you bought your fish at a LFS (Local Fish Store), ask > them if > > they will take the two GloFish back for store credit. If you bought > them at > > a big box pet store, they probably won't take them back but you can > still > > ask since they should not have sold you the fish in the first place. > > > > Another thing, while at my blog, go to my page "A to Z of Fish > Keeping" and > > take one or both of the free online tutorials, which will walk you > through a > > lot of what I've said above and in my articles and keep you from > making some > > of the most common mistakes in the future. > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the > > right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by > > Year, > Month) > > > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On > > Behalf Of cat.rose > > Sent: Tuesday, August 04, 2009 10:16 AM > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re Re: Bloated Guppy (he died last night) > > > > Thank you Lenny! > > > > Well, my little guppy died last night... He was alive when I fed > them, and > > then later I couldn't find him, but he was laying on the bottom in > the back. > > > > I have been giving them all peas like you suggested. Hopefully this > won't > > happen to any of the other fish. > > > > Here are answers to the help questionnaire: > > > > Tank size: 10 gal > > > > Tank inhabitants (number and type of fish or other aquatic life): 3 > (now 2) > > guppies, 3 platy (1 is a 1/2 in baby that was recently discovered!), > > 2 GloFish Water change amount and when the last one was done: 25% > > PWC done weekly (last one was Wed 7/29) > > > > Filter maintenance and what exactly did you do: I follow the > instructions on > > the box for replacing the 3 different filter mediums. About 2 weeks > ago I > > took filter apart and cleaned parts thoroughly. > > > > How long the tank has been set up: February 2009 Water or filter > additives > > or pH adjusters used: Cycle, Stress Coat (weekly). > > Used pH increase but stopped because it didn't seem to be working. > > > > Recent (within 2 weeks) changes or additions to the tank: Nutrifin > > Waste Control. I've used this twice which is supposed to help with > > pH, etc > (not a > > Buffer, they were out of that product). > > > > Full description of the problem you have been having, including any > > odd behavior of the inhabitants or appearance of the tank or > inhabitants. some > > common examples are: > > > > Fish behavior- > > breathing rapidly > > hanging at surface > > > > Fish appearance- > > bloated stomach > > > > Tank appearance- > > clear > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>, "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" > <GoldLenny@> > > wrote: > > > > > > What else do you have in the tank that he is in? > > > > > > Try feeding him green pea "meat" which is a natural laxative to > most fish. > > I use frozen green peas but unsalted from a can will also work. Of > course > > fresh work as well. Take a single pea and pinch the pea so the > "meat" pops > > out of the skin, discard the skin and then mash up the two halves a > little > > and feed a little to the guppy... as much as he will eat. Your other > fish > > will also like this and it's OK to feed them pea "meat" as well.. > even if > > they are not bloated. > > > > > > Now.. the bloating could be from more than simple constipation but > lets > > eliminate that possibility first. He could be staying at the top of > the tank > > due to swim bladder issues caused by the constipation and the > gulping could > > just be from the added stress from not being able to control his > buoyancy. > > Of course, all of these issues could also be related to internal > bacterial > > or parasitic issues. > > > > > > Can you at least move him to a separate container of any type? > I've used > > clear Sterilite storage boxes for this purpose. When not being used > for a > > Q-tank or H-tank, you can store your fish stuff in the box. > > > > > > While it's certainly best to have a fully set up H-tank, with a > > > cycled > > filter, if none is available then a simple container that holds > enough water > > for the size fish... a few gallons in the case of a single guppy... > and an > > air stone to help circulate the water will at least give you an > easier way > > to isolate and observe the guppy to see if he is pooping and what > the poop > > looks like. Fish poop observation is a very good first step in > > trying to diagnose fish problems. > > > > > > Go to my blog and see my most recent blog which is a Sick Fish > > Questionnaire and give us as much info as possible and we can give > > more help. > > > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> (Links to any articles > > > referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, > alphabetically > > > under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) > > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] > > > On Behalf Of cat.rose > > > Sent: Sunday, August 02, 2009 9:42 PM > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > Subject: [AquaticLife] Bloated Guppy > > > > > > My male guppy has been bloated for a couple days, and today he's > stayed at > > the top of the tank gulping air constantly. He does not have any > > raised scales, and he's been eating. I don't have any other > > tank/equipment > to move > > him to. > > > > > > Help please! > > > Catherine

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 42900	From: cat.rose	Date: 8/26/2009
Subject: Re Re: Bloated Guppy (he died last night)

I did a 10% PWC tonight & will do it every night for awhile. Did the NO3 test again and it's at 80 (2 days ago it was bet 80-160). I'm too tired tonight to do all the other tests, but did do the 48 hr tests on tap water: Tap Water Baseline PH = 7.0 GH = 5 KH = 3 NH3 = 0 NO2- = <0.3 NO3 = 0-5.0 Tap Water after 24 hours PH = 8.0 GH = 5 KH = 3 NH3 = 0 NO2- = <0.3 NO3 = (didn't have test kit at that point, but I don't want to wait to post this) Tap Water after 48 hours PH = 8.0 GH = 5 KH = 1 NH3 = 0 NO2- = <0.3 NO3 = 0-5.0 (but color looks closer to 0) --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@...> wrote: > > I realize this is probably your right out the tap water tests so you need to > keep that water and re-test it at 48 hours to see if the numbers change from > the 24 hour test numbers. > > As far as your tank, your pH is much lower than your initial tap water pH > and this was after a 25% PWC so it was probably lower before the PWC. It > looks like you need to start doing more/better tank maintenance, such as > vacuuming your gravel better (see the other thread that is going on right > now about gravel vacuuming) since you have slight ammonia and nitrite issues > but a moderately high nitrate level and this was after the 25% PWC as well. > Your ammonia and nitrite levels are likely due to excess detritus decaying > and putting out more ammonia than your biological filtration can handle. > You need to be very careful when doing filter cleaning/maintenance until you > get your tank back into good shape. Read and/or re-read my article on > proper "Filter Maintenance And Cleaning" so you do not repeat those common > mistakes. > > You should probably start doing a 10% PWC each day (with vacuuming the > gravel as much as possible each day) until your pH slowly climbs up closer > to the 8.0 pH range from your tap. This will also slowly lower the nitrate > level to get it down below 40ppm and preferably closer to 20ppm. Test the > water before the PWC and after the PWC. If you do not see the nitrates > coming down and the pH slowly rising with each PWC, you might have to > increase it to two 10% PWC's each day until things are in good shape again. > > You have to do the daily or twice daily 10% PWC's, not 25% and definitely > not more, as you need to slowly change the water parameters back into good > shape since the fish slowly acclimated to these bad parameters and if you > change the water too much, too fast, it could be just as bad or worse than > the bad water right now. After a week or so of daily or twice daily 10% > changes, test your water and let us know the numbers. Also let us know the > 48 hour test results on your tap water. > > Part of the reason your pH is so much lower in the tank than the tap is > likely due to excess detritus in the gravel OR your nitrates have been > really high for a long time. > > I'm surprised your GH numbers climbed from 5dH (tap) to 10dH (tank). This > likely means you have something in your tank that is leaching hardness into > the water. What kind of substrate do you have... or have you used any kinds > of chemicals? Your KH of 3dh from the tap is on the low side but > sufficient for a properly maintained tank with a proper bioload. > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right > side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) > > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On > Behalf Of cat.rose > Sent: Tuesday, August 25, 2009 9:31 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re Re: Bloated Guppy (he died last night) > > Hi Lenny, > > I got my test kits and here are my results: > > Did 25% PWC last night. Tonight my results are: > > PH = 5.0 > GH = 10 > KH = 2 > NH3 = 0.25 (or maybe a little less) > NO2- = <0.3 > NO3 = 80-160 (color not quite as dark as 160, but darker than 80) > > Tap Water Baseline > PH = 7.0 > GH = 5 > KH = 3 > NH3 = 0 > NO2- = <0.3 > NO3 = 0-5.0 > > Tap Water after 24 hours > PH = 8.0 > GH = 5 > KH = 3 > NH3 = 0 > NO2- = <0.3 > NO3 = (didn't have test kit at that point, but I don't want to wait to post > this) > > I stopped using all chemicals except got a dechlor product as you > instructed. > > Hi Lenny, > > I got my test kits and here are my results: > > Did 25% PWC last night. Tonight my results are: > > PH = 5.0 > GH = 10 > KH = 2 > NH3 = 0.25 (or maybe a little less) > NO2- = <0.3 > NO3 = 80-160 (color not quite as dark as 160, but darker than 80) > > Tap Water Baseline > PH = 7.0 > GH = 5 > KH = 3 > NH3 = 0 > NO2- = <0.3 > NO3 = 0-5.0 > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@> > wrote: > > > > Awww.. sorry to hear about your guppy. I wish we could have figured > > out what was wrong. Are any of the other fish showing any symptoms? > > Don't overly worry if they aren't. Quite often, a single fish will > > succumb to a > > *bug* that the other fish are able to resist, just like us humans, > > where one person in the home/office might get sick but that does not mean > we all will. > > > > How old was this male guppy... I'm guessing still pretty young since > > you've only had the tank since February 2009 but I wanted to check? > > Even if not age related, some fish simply have weaker immune systems > > than other fish and will get sick easier when stressed (and see below > > about your filter cleaning which could have caused the stress issue). > > > > First thing you need to do is QUIT using all of the various bottled > > chemicals. The only thing you should be using is a simple dechlor > > product that also treats for heavy metals. 99% of fish keepers DO NOT > > need any of the stress-this or slime-that or pH changing chemicals... > > or the Cycle or Waste Control products either. They simply are not > > needed and basically will turn your tank into a chemical waste dump > > instead of a *freshwater* tank. > > > > Just keep up with your weekly tank maintenance, gravel vacuuming, 25% > > PWC's and PROPER filter cleaning and maintenance. I mention PROPER > > filter cleaning and maintenance as I see that you've fallen for the > > replace-the-filter-cartridge scam that filter companies put in their > > instructions. This is actually BAD for your tank if not done > > properly. Go to my blog and read my LONG article on "Filter > > Maintenance And Cleaning" so you do not repeat your past mistakes. > > > > There's a good chance that when you completely cleaned your filter two > > weeks ago, this caused a Cycling Issue in your tank and the product, > > Cycle, does not solve this issue. > > > > Do you have a master test kit for checking ammonia, nitrite, nitrate, > > pH, GH and KH? If not, quit buying all the bottled chemical crap and > > spend $15-$17 on a decent Master Test Kit. Either the API or > > Tetra-Laborette master test kits can be bought online at Walmart.com > > for that price range.. with free shipping to your local store. This > > test kit will last you at least a year and it's the best investment > > you can make for your fish, instead of all the bottled crap that some > stores push on people. > > > > Once you get a test kit, we can test your tank but also do a Tap Water > > Baseline test, which is very important to know when first starting out. > > While at my blog, also read my article "Find Your Tap Water Baseline" > > so you will understand this process when you get your test kit. > > > > Are you planning on a larger fish tank? If not, your 10G tank is on > > the small side for the types of fish you are keeping. While at my > > blog, also check out the article, "10 Gallon Tank Stocking > > Suggestions". As you will see, livebearers like guppies and platys > > are not the best choices unless you go with all males, otherwise they > > can easily overwhelm a tank with their breeding. The GloFish (Zebra > > Danios) should be kept in schools of at least six but with your other > > fish, you do not have the room for six of them and six of them would > > be overcrowded in a 10G tank anyhow since they are such fast swimmers > > and a 10G tank doesn't really give them room to swim around as a > > school. If you bought your fish at a LFS (Local Fish Store), ask them > > if they will take the two GloFish back for store credit. If you > > bought them at a big box pet store, they probably won't take them back but > you can still ask since they should not have sold you the fish in the first > place. > > > > Another thing, while at my blog, go to my page "A to Z of Fish > > Keeping" and take one or both of the free online tutorials, which will > > walk you through a lot of what I've said above and in my articles and > > keep you from making some of the most common mistakes in the future. > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles > > referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically > > under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) > > > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] > > On Behalf Of cat.rose > > Sent: Tuesday, August 04, 2009 10:16 AM > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re Re: Bloated Guppy (he died last night) > > > > Thank you Lenny! > > > > Well, my little guppy died last night... He was alive when I fed them, > > and then later I couldn't find him, but he was laying on the bottom in the > back. > > > > I have been giving them all peas like you suggested. Hopefully this > > won't happen to any of the other fish. > > > > Here are answers to the help questionnaire: > > > > Tank size: 10 gal > > > > Tank inhabitants (number and type of fish or other aquatic life): 3 > > (now 2) guppies, 3 platy (1 is a 1/2 in baby that was recently > > discovered!), 2 GloFish Water change amount and when the last one was > > done: 25% PWC done weekly (last one was Wed 7/29) > > > > Filter maintenance and what exactly did you do: I follow the > > instructions on the box for replacing the 3 different filter mediums. > > About 2 weeks ago I took filter apart and cleaned parts thoroughly. > > > > How long the tank has been set up: February 2009 Water or filter > > additives or pH adjusters used: Cycle, Stress Coat (weekly). > > Used pH increase but stopped because it didn't seem to be working. > > > > Recent (within 2 weeks) changes or additions to the tank: Nutrifin > > Waste Control. I've used this twice which is supposed to help with pH, > > etc (not a Buffer, they were out of that product). > > > > Full description of the problem you have been having, including any > > odd behavior of the inhabitants or appearance of the tank or > > inhabitants. some common examples are: > > > > Fish behavior- > > breathing rapidly > > hanging at surface > > > > Fish appearance- > > bloated stomach > > > > Tank appearance- > > clear > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" > > <GoldLenny@> > > wrote: > > > > > > What else do you have in the tank that he is in? > > > > > > Try feeding him green pea "meat" which is a natural laxative to most > fish. > > I use frozen green peas but unsalted from a can will also work. Of > > course fresh work as well. Take a single pea and pinch the pea so the > > "meat" pops out of the skin, discard the skin and then mash up the two > > halves a little and feed a little to the guppy... as much as he will > > eat. Your other fish will also like this and it's OK to feed them pea > > "meat" as well.. even if they are not bloated. > > > > > > Now.. the bloating could be from more than simple constipation but > > > lets > > eliminate that possibility first. He could be staying at the top of > > the tank due to swim bladder issues caused by the constipation and the > > gulping could just be from the added stress from not being able to control > his buoyancy. > > Of course, all of these issues could also be related to internal > > bacterial or parasitic issues. > > > > > > Can you at least move him to a separate container of any type? I've > > > used > > clear Sterilite storage boxes for this purpose. When not being used > > for a Q-tank or H-tank, you can store your fish stuff in the box. > > > > > > While it's certainly best to have a fully set up H-tank, with a > > > cycled > > filter, if none is available then a simple container that holds enough > > water for the size fish... a few gallons in the case of a single > > guppy... and an air stone to help circulate the water will at least > > give you an easier way to isolate and observe the guppy to see if he > > is pooping and what the poop looks like. Fish poop observation is a > > very good first step in trying to diagnose fish problems. > > > > > > Go to my blog and see my most recent blog which is a Sick Fish > > Questionnaire and give us as much info as possible and we can give > > more help. > > > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles > > > referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, > > > alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) > > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] > > > On Behalf Of cat.rose > > > Sent: Sunday, August 02, 2009 9:42 PM > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > > Subject: [AquaticLife] Bloated Guppy > > > > > > My male guppy has been bloated for a couple days, and today he's > > > stayed at > > the top of the tank gulping air constantly. He does not have any > > raised scales, and he's been eating. I don't have any other > > tank/equipment to move him to. > > > > > > Help please! > > > Catherine >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 42901	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 8/26/2009
Subject: Re: Re Re: Bloated Guppy (he died last night)

It looks like your tap water, right out the tap has higher CO2 levels, which artificially lower the pH but then as that CO2 outgases from the water, your pH rises to the 8.0 pH level. When adding tap water to your tank, it will outgas much faster since your filter will be agitating the water causing it the CO2 to outgas. Double check your KH level after 48 hours since it's unusual for it to go down like that and if it really is only 1 dH of KH, depending on which fish you want to keep, you will have to use a natural additive in your filter system or in a filter media bag hidden behind a plant or decoration. Two simple and easy choices are either CuttleBone (yes, the kind for parakeets) or Crushed Coral. Either can be found at your local pet store. I use the CuttleBone and a one dollar CuttleBone will last you a LONG time with your single tank. You can break it up into smaller pieces and add maybe 1/4th of the CuttleBone to start and then start monitoring your KH level. CuttleBone will also slightly raise your GH but the KH is an important number since that is what helps to stabilize the pH in the tank in between your PWC's. Both CuttleBone and Crushed Coral are 100% Calcium Carbonate so the Calcium helps raise the GH level and the Carbonate is what raises the KH level. KH stands for Carbonate Hardness. It's a German symbol which is why it's KH and not CH. Look down further in this email, I see that your GH and KH were both higher in your tank, even though the pH was much lower so you might want to double check your tank test results as well. Post all the numbers in this same thread and leave the below info for comparison purposes. Do you know if you have any kind of crushed coral or other additive that is causing your GH and KH to be higher in the tank, than your 48 hour baseline numbers? Give us an inventory of what you have in the tank as far as decorations, plants, fish, etc... and what kinds of filter media you have in your filter... just to bring us back up to speed on your fish bioload and maybe so we can figure out what is leaching GH and KH into your tank. Keep up them daily 10% PWC's but also test the pH and the nitrates, at least. It's good that the nitrates are coming down but your goal is down to the 20ppm range so you still have several more PWC's to do. I'm more concerned about not raising your pH too much, too fast since your tap water pH is so much higher than what your tank was showing. We don't want to cause pH shock to your fish, although, if the tank did have a higher pH prior to your fish health problem, it could have been a pH crash that caused the fish health issues. It's too bad your pet store was selling you all that other crap without having you get a test kit first. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of cat.rose Sent: Wednesday, August 26, 2009 9:20 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Re Re: Bloated Guppy (he died last night) I did a 10% PWC tonight & will do it every night for awhile. Did the NO3 test again and it's at 80 (2 days ago it was bet 80-160). I'm too tired tonight to do all the other tests, but did do the 48 hr tests on tap water: Tap Water Baseline PH = 7.0 GH = 5 KH = 3 NH3 = 0 NO2- = <0.3 NO3 = 0-5.0 Tap Water after 24 hours PH = 8.0 GH = 5 KH = 3 NH3 = 0 NO2- = <0.3 NO3 = (didn't have test kit at that point, but I don't want to wait to post this) Tap Water after 48 hours PH = 8.0 GH = 5 KH = 1 NH3 = 0 NO2- = <0.3 NO3 = 0-5.0 (but color looks closer to 0) --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@...> wrote: > > I realize this is probably your right out the tap water tests so you > need to keep that water and re-test it at 48 hours to see if the > numbers change from the 24 hour test numbers. > > As far as your tank, your pH is much lower than your initial tap water > pH and this was after a 25% PWC so it was probably lower before the > PWC. It looks like you need to start doing more/better tank > maintenance, such as vacuuming your gravel better (see the other > thread that is going on right now about gravel vacuuming) since you > have slight ammonia and nitrite issues but a moderately high nitrate level and this was after the 25% PWC as well. > Your ammonia and nitrite levels are likely due to excess detritus > decaying and putting out more ammonia than your biological filtration can handle. > You need to be very careful when doing filter cleaning/maintenance > until you get your tank back into good shape. Read and/or re-read my > article on proper "Filter Maintenance And Cleaning" so you do not > repeat those common mistakes. > > You should probably start doing a 10% PWC each day (with vacuuming the > gravel as much as possible each day) until your pH slowly climbs up > closer to the 8.0 pH range from your tap. This will also slowly lower > the nitrate level to get it down below 40ppm and preferably closer to > 20ppm. Test the water before the PWC and after the PWC. If you do > not see the nitrates coming down and the pH slowly rising with each > PWC, you might have to increase it to two 10% PWC's each day until things are in good shape again. > > You have to do the daily or twice daily 10% PWC's, not 25% and > definitely not more, as you need to slowly change the water parameters > back into good shape since the fish slowly acclimated to these bad > parameters and if you change the water too much, too fast, it could be > just as bad or worse than the bad water right now. After a week or so > of daily or twice daily 10% changes, test your water and let us know > the numbers. Also let us know the > 48 hour test results on your tap water. > > Part of the reason your pH is so much lower in the tank than the tap > is likely due to excess detritus in the gravel OR your nitrates have > been really high for a long time. > > I'm surprised your GH numbers climbed from 5dH (tap) to 10dH (tank). > This likely means you have something in your tank that is leaching > hardness into the water. What kind of substrate do you have... or have you used any kinds > of chemicals? Your KH of 3dh from the tap is on the low side but > sufficient for a properly maintained tank with a proper bioload. > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles > referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically > under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) > > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] > On Behalf Of cat.rose > Sent: Tuesday, August 25, 2009 9:31 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re Re: Bloated Guppy (he died last night) > > Hi Lenny, > > I got my test kits and here are my results: > > Did 25% PWC last night. Tonight my results are: > > PH = 5.0 > GH = 10 > KH = 2 > NH3 = 0.25 (or maybe a little less) > NO2- = <0.3 > NO3 = 80-160 (color not quite as dark as 160, but darker than 80) > > Tap Water Baseline > PH = 7.0 > GH = 5 > KH = 3 > NH3 = 0 > NO2- = <0.3 > NO3 = 0-5.0 > > Tap Water after 24 hours > PH = 8.0 > GH = 5 > KH = 3 > NH3 = 0 > NO2- = <0.3 > NO3 = (didn't have test kit at that point, but I don't want to wait to > post > this) > > I stopped using all chemicals except got a dechlor product as you > instructed. > > Hi Lenny, > > I got my test kits and here are my results: > > Did 25% PWC last night. Tonight my results are: > > PH = 5.0 > GH = 10 > KH = 2 > NH3 = 0.25 (or maybe a little less) > NO2- = <0.3 > NO3 = 80-160 (color not quite as dark as 160, but darker than 80) > > Tap Water Baseline > PH = 7.0 > GH = 5 > KH = 3 > NH3 = 0 > NO2- = <0.3 > NO3 = 0-5.0 > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" > <GoldLenny@> > wrote: > > > > Awww.. sorry to hear about your guppy. I wish we could have figured > > out what was wrong. Are any of the other fish showing any symptoms? > > Don't overly worry if they aren't. Quite often, a single fish will > > succumb to a > > *bug* that the other fish are able to resist, just like us humans, > > where one person in the home/office might get sick but that does not > > mean > we all will. > > > > How old was this male guppy... I'm guessing still pretty young since > > you've only had the tank since February 2009 but I wanted to check? > > Even if not age related, some fish simply have weaker immune systems > > than other fish and will get sick easier when stressed (and see > > below about your filter cleaning which could have caused the stress issue). > > > > First thing you need to do is QUIT using all of the various bottled > > chemicals. The only thing you should be using is a simple dechlor > > product that also treats for heavy metals. 99% of fish keepers DO > > NOT need any of the stress-this or slime-that or pH changing chemicals... > > or the Cycle or Waste Control products either. They simply are not > > needed and basically will turn your tank into a chemical waste dump > > instead of a *freshwater* tank. > > > > Just keep up with your weekly tank maintenance, gravel vacuuming, > > 25% PWC's and PROPER filter cleaning and maintenance. I mention > > PROPER filter cleaning and maintenance as I see that you've fallen > > for the replace-the-filter-cartridge scam that filter companies put > > in their instructions. This is actually BAD for your tank if not > > done properly. Go to my blog and read my LONG article on "Filter > > Maintenance And Cleaning" so you do not repeat your past mistakes. > > > > There's a good chance that when you completely cleaned your filter > > two weeks ago, this caused a Cycling Issue in your tank and the > > product, Cycle, does not solve this issue. > > > > Do you have a master test kit for checking ammonia, nitrite, > > nitrate, pH, GH and KH? If not, quit buying all the bottled > > chemical crap and spend $15-$17 on a decent Master Test Kit. Either > > the API or Tetra-Laborette master test kits can be bought online at > > Walmart.com for that price range.. with free shipping to your local > > store. This test kit will last you at least a year and it's the > > best investment you can make for your fish, instead of all the > > bottled crap that some > stores push on people. > > > > Once you get a test kit, we can test your tank but also do a Tap > > Water Baseline test, which is very important to know when first starting out. > > While at my blog, also read my article "Find Your Tap Water Baseline" > > so you will understand this process when you get your test kit. > > > > Are you planning on a larger fish tank? If not, your 10G tank is on > > the small side for the types of fish you are keeping. While at my > > blog, also check out the article, "10 Gallon Tank Stocking > > Suggestions". As you will see, livebearers like guppies and platys > > are not the best choices unless you go with all males, otherwise > > they can easily overwhelm a tank with their breeding. The GloFish > > (Zebra > > Danios) should be kept in schools of at least six but with your > > other fish, you do not have the room for six of them and six of them > > would be overcrowded in a 10G tank anyhow since they are such fast > > swimmers and a 10G tank doesn't really give them room to swim around > > as a school. If you bought your fish at a LFS (Local Fish Store), > > ask them if they will take the two GloFish back for store credit. > > If you bought them at a big box pet store, they probably won't take > > them back but > you can still ask since they should not have sold you the fish in the > first place. > > > > Another thing, while at my blog, go to my page "A to Z of Fish > > Keeping" and take one or both of the free online tutorials, which > > will walk you through a lot of what I've said above and in my > > articles and keep you from making some of the most common mistakes in the future. > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles > > referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, > > alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) > > > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] > > On Behalf Of cat.rose > > Sent: Tuesday, August 04, 2009 10:16 AM > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re Re: Bloated Guppy (he died last night) > > > > Thank you Lenny! > > > > Well, my little guppy died last night... He was alive when I fed > > them, and then later I couldn't find him, but he was laying on the > > bottom in the > back. > > > > I have been giving them all peas like you suggested. Hopefully this > > won't happen to any of the other fish. > > > > Here are answers to the help questionnaire: > > > > Tank size: 10 gal > > > > Tank inhabitants (number and type of fish or other aquatic life): 3 > > (now 2) guppies, 3 platy (1 is a 1/2 in baby that was recently > > discovered!), 2 GloFish Water change amount and when the last one > > was > > done: 25% PWC done weekly (last one was Wed 7/29) > > > > Filter maintenance and what exactly did you do: I follow the > > instructions on the box for replacing the 3 different filter mediums. > > About 2 weeks ago I took filter apart and cleaned parts thoroughly. > > > > How long the tank has been set up: February 2009 Water or filter > > additives or pH adjusters used: Cycle, Stress Coat (weekly). > > Used pH increase but stopped because it didn't seem to be working. > > > > Recent (within 2 weeks) changes or additions to the tank: Nutrifin > > Waste Control. I've used this twice which is supposed to help with > > pH, etc (not a Buffer, they were out of that product). > > > > Full description of the problem you have been having, including any > > odd behavior of the inhabitants or appearance of the tank or > > inhabitants. some common examples are: > > > > Fish behavior- > > breathing rapidly > > hanging at surface > > > > Fish appearance- > > bloated stomach > > > > Tank appearance- > > clear > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" > > <GoldLenny@> > > wrote: > > > > > > What else do you have in the tank that he is in? > > > > > > Try feeding him green pea "meat" which is a natural laxative to > > > most > fish. > > I use frozen green peas but unsalted from a can will also work. Of > > course fresh work as well. Take a single pea and pinch the pea so > > the "meat" pops out of the skin, discard the skin and then mash up > > the two halves a little and feed a little to the guppy... as much as > > he will eat. Your other fish will also like this and it's OK to feed > > them pea "meat" as well.. even if they are not bloated. > > > > > > Now.. the bloating could be from more than simple constipation but > > > lets > > eliminate that possibility first. He could be staying at the top of > > the tank due to swim bladder issues caused by the constipation and > > the gulping could just be from the added stress from not being able > > to control > his buoyancy. > > Of course, all of these issues could also be related to internal > > bacterial or parasitic issues. > > > > > > Can you at least move him to a separate container of any type? > > > I've used > > clear Sterilite storage boxes for this purpose. When not being used > > for a Q-tank or H-tank, you can store your fish stuff in the box. > > > > > > While it's certainly best to have a fully set up H-tank, with a > > > cycled > > filter, if none is available then a simple container that holds > > enough water for the size fish... a few gallons in the case of a > > single guppy... and an air stone to help circulate the water will at > > least give you an easier way to isolate and observe the guppy to see > > if he is pooping and what the poop looks like. Fish poop observation > > is a very good first step in trying to diagnose fish problems. > > > > > > Go to my blog and see my most recent blog which is a Sick Fish > > Questionnaire and give us as much info as possible and we can give > > more help. > > > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles > > > referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, > > > alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, > > > Month) > > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] > > > On Behalf Of cat.rose > > > Sent: Sunday, August 02, 2009 9:42 PM > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > > Subject: [AquaticLife] Bloated Guppy > > > > > > My male guppy has been bloated for a couple days, and today he's > > > stayed at > > the top of the tank gulping air constantly. He does not have any > > raised scales, and he's been eating. I don't have any other > > tank/equipment to move him to. > > > > > > Help please! > > > Catherine

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 42902	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 8/27/2009
Subject: Aquarium 1, Cat 0

This is funny, especially if you also own a cat. Registration may be required to see this video which is, of all places, on the New York Times site. http://laughlines.blogs.nytimes.com/2009/08/26/aquarium-1-cat-0/ http://tinyurl.com/ljbaa4 \\Steve//

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 42903	From: David Keymel	Date: 8/27/2009
Subject: Re: Aquarium 1, Cat 0

haha... we got a cat that sits on top of the tank and trys to paw down into it sometimes. its a pain in the butt! On Thu, Aug 27, 2009 at 8:32 AM, Steve Szabo <steve@...> wrote: > > > This is funny, especially if you also own a cat. Registration may be > required to see this video which is, of all places, on the New York > Times site. > > http://laughlines.blogs.nytimes.com/2009/08/26/aquarium-1-cat-0/ > http://tinyurl.com/ljbaa4 > > \\Steve// > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 42904	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 8/27/2009
Subject: Re: Aquarium 1, Cat 0

I didn't have to register. Glad I didn't since I wouldn't have. The closest I allow myself to get to the New York Times is when "Pinch" talks on RedEye... which is the late night comedy show on Fox News. ;-) You kind of knew that stupid cat was gonna do that though.... and since the owners set up the video, I'm sure it wasn't the first time. Some animals never learn.. some humans too! ;-) Now I have to CCleaner my cookies to get the NYT off my computer. :-P Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Steve Szabo Sent: Thursday, August 27, 2009 7:33 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Aquarium 1, Cat 0 This is funny, especially if you also own a cat. Registration may be required to see this video which is, of all places, on the New York Times site. http://laughlines.blogs.nytimes.com/2009/08/26/aquarium-1-cat-0/ http://tinyurl.com/ljbaa4 \\Steve//

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 42905	From: Margie	Date: 8/27/2009
Subject: Re: Aquarium 1, Cat 0

I thought cats were smarter then that..... So funny , thanks -------Original Message------- From: David Keymel Date: 8/27/2009 10:17:15 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Aquarium 1, Cat 0 haha... we got a cat that sits on top of the tank and trys to paw down into it sometimes. its a pain in the butt! On Thu, Aug 27, 2009 at 8:32 AM, Steve Szabo <steve@...> wrote: > > > This is funny, especially if you also own a cat. Registration may be > required to see this video which is, of all places, on the New York > Times site. > > http://laughlines.blogs.nytimes.com/2009/08/26/aquarium-1-cat-0/ > http://tinyurl.com/ljbaa4 > > \\Steve// > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] ------------------------------------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. `..><((((>.`..`.><((((> .`.. , .`..><((((> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <((((><.`..`.<((((><.`.. , .`..<((((><`.. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the home page. Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com to receive the digest, which includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com for the No E-Mail option where you will still be able to read messages on the group and post replies. Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com to receive individual e-mails Yahoo! Groups Links [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 42906	From: silvercat151	Date: 8/27/2009
Subject: PLEASE help - strange thing on goldfish

I recently bought a goldfish with a small lesion near its dorsal fin, a round red circle, with a central white bit that protrudes a bit. I treated the tank with Pimafix for a few days and it seemed to go but, yesterday, I noticed to my horror that it was back. I would post photos but not sure how to. The fish seems well in itself, happy active and eating well. Suggestions as to what it might be and advice please?

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 42907	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 8/27/2009
Subject: Re: PLEASE help - strange thing on goldfish

Pimafix was not the right medicine to use. It's more of an antifungal treatment. Melafix is an OK as a mild antibacterial treatment but for a fish with an obviously infected lesion, medicated antibiotic foods and/or a stronger antibiotic water treatment would be better. Both would be best. Where are you located or where do you shop? Is this fish by itself in the tank and how big is the tank? Give us more info and history and your experience with fish keeping. As far as what it is... since it's red, it's usually going to mean an infection. The white could be pus or just decaying flesh if the lesion has been there a while. In the interim, until we figure out a proper treatment plan, do daily 25% PWC's (partial water changes and siphon the gravel good to make the water quality as good as possible when starting the treatment. Good clean water is the best thing for fish. Stay away from most of the bottle chemicals that many pet stores try to push on people. Just use your dechlor product to treat the chlorine/chloramine and heavy metals. None of the slime-this or stress-that type crap. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of silvercat151 Sent: Thursday, August 27, 2009 10:01 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] PLEASE help - strange thing on goldfish I recently bought a goldfish with a small lesion near its dorsal fin, a round red circle, with a central white bit that protrudes a bit. I treated the tank with Pimafix for a few days and it seemed to go but, yesterday, I noticed to my horror that it was back. I would post photos but not sure how to. The fish seems well in itself, happy active and eating well. Suggestions as to what it might be and advice please?

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 42908	From: moiragrubb2000	Date: 8/27/2009
Subject: oscar ill

hi i have been a member of this group for a while and find it interesting and informative just reading the e mails this is the first time ive had to ask for help i have an oscar he is in an established tank had him about 4 years he is about 6 yrs old. this last few days he is not eating usually comes up to hand feed all water paramaters fine and cant see anything physically wrong but he definately not his usual self he shares his tank with 2 red sharks and a pleco all been in tank 4 yrs other fish fine only thing thats changed is i have been feeding him freeze dried river shrimp and krill since he has took a liking to it along with frozen blood worm and cichlid pellets not all at once obviously could it have anything to do with freeze dried food would appreciate any feedback ,suggestions on what i csn try as completely at a loss have put in some paragon oxygen tonic at the moment tonight he did make an effort to pick up some gravel and throw it at his tank mates but not interested in eating, any help would be appreciated, thanks, mo

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 42909	From: bill 1433	Date: 8/27/2009
Subject: Re: oscar ill

Hi Mo!   My name is Bill and a few thousand years ago (just kidding, but along time) I raised Oscars.  Many people are of the firm belief that Oscars are real pigs and will eat darn near anything.  While that may be true to a certain extent, they do like a change of menu from time to time and the same diet without any variation at all is not good for any fish including the Discus!   While we are talking about the front door, lets go around the back door for a moment.  The fishes "bodily functions" are all in proper working order, I would assume?   Now for Oscars house?  Does he has a large enough tank with plenty of room?  One Oscar= 1 55 gallon tank at least, a 100 would be better if tank mates are present.   Next, how about your water changes and general upkeep of the tank?  Try a 25% water change first as well as a change in diet.  Have you ever fed him small, good old fashioned earthworms?  Oscars love them.  To an Oscar, space is the big thing.  What is the size of the tank, not just gallons but physical size?  A standard 55 at 4 feet long is fine for 1 Oscar but with tankmates?  A 5 footer that is about 18 inches wide to allow him room to swim and turn around would be better and a 6 foot job at a 125 gallons would be the best.   Bill --- On Thu, 8/27/09, moiragrubb2000 <moiragrubb2000@...> wrote: From: moiragrubb2000 <moiragrubb2000@...> Subject: [AquaticLife] oscar ill To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Date: Thursday, August 27, 2009, 4:25 PM hi i have been a member of this group for a while and find it interesting and informative just reading the e mails this is the first time ive had to ask for help i have an oscar  he is in an established tank had him about 4 years he is about 6 yrs old. this last few days he is not eating usually comes up to hand feed all water paramaters fine and cant see anything physically wrong but he definately not his usual self he shares his tank with 2 red sharks and a pleco all been in tank 4 yrs other fish fine only thing thats changed is i have been feeding him freeze dried river shrimp and krill since he has took a liking to it along with frozen blood worm and cichlid pellets not all at once obviously could it have anything to do with freeze dried food would appreciate any feedback ,suggestions on what i csn try as completely at a loss have put in some paragon oxygen tonic at the moment tonight he did make an effort to pick up some gravel and throw it at his tank mates but not interested in eating, any help would be appreciated, thanks, mo ------------------------------------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the home page.  Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com to receive the digest, which includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com for the No E-Mail option where you will still be able to read messages on the group and post replies. Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com to receive individual e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 42910	From: moiragrubb2000	Date: 8/27/2009
Subject: Re: oscar ill

--- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, bill 1433 <warrenprint@...> wrote: >cheers bill the first thing i did was a water change and have been trying him with different foods chicken prawns etc never tried earthworms so i will try that next he is in a 5 foot tank i do regular water changes and filter maintenance when i was watching him earlier it looked like he had a sort of twitching of his head a kind of jerking although he might just be trying to tell me to stop staring at him lol i do actually feed him quite a varied diet but only introduced the freeze dried stuff about 7 wks ago which he loved was just worried this might have caused a problem is there any medication you could suggest he is definately under the weather and not his usual self thanks again mo > Hi Mo! >   > My name is Bill and a few thousand years ago (just kidding, but along time) I raised Oscars.  Many people are of the firm belief that Oscars are real pigs and will eat darn near anything.  While that may be true to a certain extent, they do like a change of menu from time to time and the same diet without any variation at all is not good for any fish including the Discus! >   > While we are talking about the front door, lets go around the back door for a moment.  The fishes "bodily functions" are all in proper working order, I would assume? >   > Now for Oscars house?  Does he has a large enough tank with plenty of room?  One Oscar= 1 55 gallon tank at least, a 100 would be better if tank mates are present. >   > Next, how about your water changes and general upkeep of the tank?  Try a 25% water change first as well as a change in diet.  Have you ever fed him small, good old fashioned earthworms?  Oscars love them.  To an Oscar, space is the big thing.  What is the size of the tank, not just gallons but physical size?  A standard 55 at 4 feet long is fine for 1 Oscar but with tankmates?  A 5 footer that is about 18 inches wide to allow him room to swim and turn around would be better and a 6 foot job at a 125 gallons would be the best. >   > Bill > > --- On Thu, 8/27/09, moiragrubb2000 <moiragrubb2000@...> wrote: > > > From: moiragrubb2000 <moiragrubb2000@...> > Subject: [AquaticLife] oscar ill > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Date: Thursday, August 27, 2009, 4:25 PM > > > hi i have been a member of this group for a while and find it interesting and informative just reading the e mails this is the first time ive had to ask for help i have an oscar  he is in an established tank had him about 4 years he is about 6 yrs old. this last few days he is not eating usually comes up to hand feed all water paramaters fine and cant see anything physically wrong but he definately not his usual self he shares his tank with 2 red sharks and a pleco all been in tank 4 yrs other fish fine only thing thats changed is i have been feeding him freeze dried river shrimp and krill since he has took a liking to it along with frozen blood worm and cichlid pellets not all at once obviously could it have anything to do with freeze dried food would appreciate any feedback ,suggestions on what i csn try as completely at a loss have put in some paragon oxygen tonic at the moment tonight he did make an effort to pick up some gravel and throw it at his > tank mates but not interested in eating, any help would be appreciated, thanks, mo > > > > ------------------------------------

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 42911	From: Dora Smith	Date: 8/27/2009
Subject: Re: Aquarium 1, Cat 0

We wouldn't want to think cats are too bright, now. Yours, Dora Smith Austin, TX tiggernut24@... ----- Original Message ----- From: "Margie" <MargiePhelps@...> To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Thursday, August 27, 2009 9:31 AM Subject: [Bulk] Re: [AquaticLife] Aquarium 1, Cat 0 I thought cats were smarter then that..... So funny , thanks -------Original Message------- From: David Keymel Date: 8/27/2009 10:17:15 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Aquarium 1, Cat 0 haha... we got a cat that sits on top of the tank and trys to paw down into it sometimes. its a pain in the butt! On Thu, Aug 27, 2009 at 8:32 AM, Steve Szabo <steve@...> wrote: > > > This is funny, especially if you also own a cat. Registration may be > required to see this video which is, of all places, on the New York > Times site. > > http://laughlines.blogs.nytimes.com/2009/08/26/aquarium-1-cat-0/ > http://tinyurl.com/ljbaa4 > > \\Steve// > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] ------------------------------------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. `..><((((>.`..`.><((((> .`.. , .`..><((((> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <((((><.`..`.<((((><.`.. , .`..<((((><`.. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the home page. Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com to receive the digest, which includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com for the No E-Mail option where you will still be able to read messages on the group and post replies. Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com to receive individual e-mails Yahoo! Groups Links [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] ------------------------------------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the home page. Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com to receive the digest, which includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com for the No E-Mail option where you will still be able to read messages on the group and post replies. Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com to receive individual e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 42912	From: moira grubb	Date: 8/27/2009
Subject: Re: oscar ill

cheers bill the first thing i did was a water change and have been trying him with different foods chicken prawns etc never tried earthworms so i will try that next he is in a 5 foot tank i do regular water changes and filter maintenance when i was watching him earlier it looked like he had a sort of twitching of his head a kind of jerking although he might just be trying to tell me to stop staring at him lol i do actually feed him quite a varied diet but only introduced the freeze dried stuff about 7 wks ago which he loved was just worried this might have caused a problem  is there any medication you could suggest he is definately under the weather and not his usual self thanks again mo --- On Thu, 27/8/09, bill 1433 <warrenprint@...> wrote: From: bill 1433 <warrenprint@...> Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] oscar ill To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Date: Thursday, 27 August, 2009, 10:01 PM   Hi Mo!   My name is Bill and a few thousand years ago (just kidding, but along time) I raised Oscars.  Many people are of the firm belief that Oscars are real pigs and will eat darn near anything.  While that may be true to a certain extent, they do like a change of menu from time to time and the same diet without any variation at all is not good for any fish including the Discus!   While we are talking about the front door, lets go around the back door for a moment.  The fishes "bodily functions" are all in proper working order, I would assume?   Now for Oscars house?  Does he has a large enough tank with plenty of room?  One Oscar= 1 55 gallon tank at least, a 100 would be better if tank mates are present.   Next, how about your water changes and general upkeep of the tank?  Try a 25% water change first as well as a change in diet.  Have you ever fed him small, good old fashioned earthworms?  Oscars love them.  To an Oscar, space is the big thing.  What is the size of the tank, not just gallons but physical size?  A standard 55 at 4 feet long is fine for 1 Oscar but with tankmates?  A 5 footer that is about 18 inches wide to allow him room to swim and turn around would be better and a 6 foot job at a 125 gallons would be the best.   Bill --- On Thu, 8/27/09, moiragrubb2000 <moiragrubb2000@ yahoo.co. uk> wrote: From: moiragrubb2000 <moiragrubb2000@ yahoo.co. uk> Subject: [AquaticLife] oscar ill To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com Date: Thursday, August 27, 2009, 4:25 PM hi i have been a member of this group for a while and find it interesting and informative just reading the e mails this is the first time ive had to ask for help i have an oscar  he is in an established tank had him about 4 years he is about 6 yrs old. this last few days he is not eating usually comes up to hand feed all water paramaters fine and cant see anything physically wrong but he definately not his usual self he shares his tank with 2 red sharks and a pleco all been in tank 4 yrs other fish fine only thing thats changed is i have been feeding him freeze dried river shrimp and krill since he has took a liking to it along with frozen blood worm and cichlid pellets not all at once obviously could it have anything to do with freeze dried food would appreciate any feedback ,suggestions on what i csn try as completely at a loss have put in some paragon oxygen tonic at the moment tonight he did make an effort to pick up some gravel and throw it at his tank mates but not interested in eating, any help would be appreciated, thanks, mo ------------ --------- --------- ------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the home page.  Or e-mail aquaticlife- digest@yahoogrou ps.com to receive the digest, which includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email Or email aquaticlife- nomail@yahoogrou ps.com for the No E-Mail option where you will still be able to read messages on the group and post replies. Or email aquaticlife- normal@yahoogrou ps.com to receive individual e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 42913	From: sevenspringss	Date: 8/27/2009
Subject: Re: oscar ill

Mo, Noticing that the first thing you did was to make a water change (PWC); how large of a PWC did you do? When was the last time you made a PWC and how much water was changed at that time? I do notice that you do regular water changes and filter maintenance. Can you describe these procedures? How often and how much water do you change at these times? Exactly what do you do when performing filter maintenance, and what type of filter do you have. What are ALL of your water parameters, but more specifically especially at this time, what is your nitrate reading and your pH? How many gallons in this 5' tank? How large is the Pleco? How large is this 6 year old Oscar? Ray --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "moiragrubb2000" <moiragrubb2000@...> wrote: > > hi i have been a member of this group for a while and find it interesting and informative just reading the e mails this is the first time ive had to ask for help i have an oscar he is in an established tank had him about 4 years he is about 6 yrs old. this last few days he is not eating usually comes up to hand feed all water paramaters fine and cant see anything physically wrong but he definately not his usual self he shares his tank with 2 red sharks and a pleco all been in tank 4 yrs other fish fine only thing thats changed is i have been feeding him freeze dried river shrimp and krill since he has took a liking to it along with frozen blood worm and cichlid pellets not all at once obviously could it have anything to do with freeze dried food would appreciate any feedback ,suggestions on what i csn try as completely at a loss have put in some paragon oxygen tonic at the moment tonight he did make an effort to pick up some gravel and throw it at his tank mates but not interested in eating, any help would be appreciated, thanks, mo >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 42914	From: moiragrubb2000	Date: 8/27/2009
Subject: Re: oscar ill

--- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "sevenspringss" <sevenspringss@...> wrote: >when i clean the filter i squeeze sponges in tank water clean filter parts in tank water i have 2 filters both enheim big ones oscar is about 14 inches plec 16 alternate clean filters weekly ph 7.6 nitrate zero tank about 70 imp gallons mo > Mo, Noticing that the first thing you did was to make a water change (PWC); how large of a PWC did you do? When was the last time you made a PWC and how much water was changed at that time? I do notice that you do regular water changes and filter maintenance. Can you describe these procedures? How often and how much water do you change at these times? Exactly what do you do when performing filter maintenance, and what type of filter do you have. What are ALL of your water parameters, but more specifically especially at this time, what is your nitrate reading and your pH? How many gallons in this 5' tank? How large is the Pleco? How large is this 6 year old Oscar? Ray > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "moiragrubb2000" <moiragrubb2000@> wrote: > > > > hi i have been a member of this group for a while and find it interesting and informative just reading the e mails this is the first time ive had to ask for help i have an oscar he is in an established tank had him about 4 years he is about 6 yrs old. this last few days he is not eating usually comes up to hand feed all water paramaters fine and cant see anything physically wrong but he definately not his usual self he shares his tank with 2 red sharks and a pleco all been in tank 4 yrs other fish fine only thing thats changed is i have been feeding him freeze dried river shrimp and krill since he has took a liking to it along with frozen blood worm and cichlid pellets not all at once obviously could it have anything to do with freeze dried food would appreciate any feedback ,suggestions on what i csn try as completely at a loss have put in some paragon oxygen tonic at the moment tonight he did make an effort to pick up some gravel and throw it at his tank mates but not interested in eating, any help would be appreciated, thanks, mo > > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 42915	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 8/27/2009
Subject: Re: oscar ill

One thing that is certain is that your tank is overstocked. You don't say how big the "red sharks" are but even if they are tiny, having a 14" Oscar and a 16" Pleco in only a 5' tank (70 Imperial Gallons = around 84 U.S. Gallons or 318 Liters). Do you have more info on the scientific name of the "red sharks"? I've seen species with common names of Red-Tailed Shark, Red-fin Shark, etc., but never just "red shark". You list your nitrates as "zero" but I believe your nitrate test must be mistaken unless you have some kind of advanced filtration since nitrates is the end product of the nitrogen cycle and would certainly be present in a tank with such a heavy bioload. Please re-check your nitrates and/or get a second opinion from a friend's test kit or your local fish/pet store. Do you have a heavily planted sump tank filter system? Do you use any advanced filter media that might be removing nitrates? Which brand of test kit do you use? How old is the kit? Remember, that while we can test for some of the common pollutants like ammonia, nitrite, nitrate, etc., we are not able to test for things like hormone and pheromone levels and BIG fish put out a lot of these and as these levels rise, they will start to affect the way our fish act. Our normal filter media does not remove these either so the only way to keep them down to low/tolerable levels is to increase the frequency of 25% PWC's to several times a week. Usually, the nitrate level will also rise proportionately with the rise of hormone levels but in heavily planted tanks, which use up nitrogenous wastes, the nitrates might be low but the hormone levels could still be MUCH higher and PWC's are the only thing that will lower them so simply using the nitrate level as a guideline for when PWC's are needed would not work. I realize that getting a bigger tank is not always an easy option and it's obvious that you've been a good fish keeper for a long time to get your fish to have grown to such large sizes but remember that BIG fish grow by around eight times in body mass for each time they double in length so a 14" Oscar is not equal to two 7" Oscars but rather equal in body mass to EIGHT 7" Oscars. That would compute out to being equal to 64 3.5" Oscars and over 500 1.75" Oscars. Same kind of numbers for the Pleco. Obviously, none of us would put that many fish in a 84G (U.S.) tank but that is exactly what is happening when they grow up to adult size. This is why we have to dramatically increase our tank maintenance and PWC's as the fish grow. I have an article on my blog, "New Rules/Guidelines To Replace The Fish-Killing 1" Rule" that I (and other fish keepers worked on for quite a while, several years ago). http://goldlenny.blogspot.com/2007/02/new-rules-guidelines-to-replace-1-per. html That article is about how many gallons per inch for the various sizes of fish and for your 14" and 16" fish, they should each have 5 gallons per inch as a bare minimum which would mean a 150G tank just for them two fish with weekly tank maintenance. You are at around 1/2 that volume so you can partially make up for that by doing twice or three times a week 25% PWC's (or more frequently, depending on the "red sharks") but a bigger tank or splitting the fish into multiple tanks would also work. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of moiragrubb2000 Sent: Thursday, August 27, 2009 7:05 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: oscar ill --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "sevenspringss" <sevenspringss@...> wrote: >when i clean the filter i squeeze sponges in tank water clean filter >parts in tank water i have 2 filters both enheim big ones oscar is >about 14 inches plec 16 alternate clean filters weekly ph 7.6 nitrate >zero tank about 70 imp gallons mo Mo, Noticing that the first thing >you did was to make a water change (PWC); how large of a PWC did you >do? When was the last time you made a PWC and how much water was >changed at that time? I do notice that you do regular water changes >and filter maintenance. Can you describe these procedures? How often >and how much water do you change at these times? Exactly what do you >do when performing filter maintenance, and what type of filter do you >have. What are ALL of your water parameters, but more specifically >especially at this time, what is your nitrate reading and your pH? How >many gallons in this 5' tank? How large is the Pleco? How large is >this 6 year old Oscar? Ray > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "moiragrubb2000" <moiragrubb2000@> wrote: > > > > hi i have been a member of this group for a while and find it > > interesting and informative just reading the e mails this is the > > first time ive had to ask for help i have an oscar he is in an > > established tank had him about 4 years he is about 6 yrs old. this > > last few days he is not eating usually comes up to hand feed all > > water paramaters fine and cant see anything physically wrong but he > > definately not his usual self he shares his tank with 2 red sharks > > and a pleco all been in tank 4 yrs other fish fine only thing thats > > changed is i have been feeding him freeze dried river shrimp and > > krill since he has took a liking to it along with frozen blood worm > > and cichlid pellets not all at once obviously could it have anything > > to do with freeze dried food would appreciate any feedback > > ,suggestions on what i csn try as completely at a loss have put in > > some paragon oxygen tonic at the moment tonight he did make an > > effort to pick up some gravel and throw it at his tank mates but not > > interested in eating, any help would be appreciated, thanks, mo > > > ------------------------------------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the home page. Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com to receive the digest, which includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com for the No E-Mail option where you will still be able to read messages on the group and post replies. Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com to receive individual e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 42916	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 8/27/2009
Subject: Re: Aquarium 1, Cat 0

Lenny, Actually, I read quite a bit from the Times. A lot of stuff I see elsewhere started at the Times, so I go right to the source. \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Lenny V. aka GoldLenny Sent: Thursday, August 27, 2009 10:23 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Aquarium 1, Cat 0 I didn't have to register. Glad I didn't since I wouldn't have. The closest I allow myself to get to the New York Times is when "Pinch" talks on RedEye... which is the late night comedy show on Fox News. ;-) You kind of knew that stupid cat was gonna do that though.... and since the owners set up the video, I'm sure it wasn't the first time. Some animals never learn.. some humans too! ;-) Now I have to CCleaner my cookies to get the NYT off my computer. :-P Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Steve Szabo Sent: Thursday, August 27, 2009 7:33 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Aquarium 1, Cat 0 This is funny, especially if you also own a cat. Registration may be required to see this video which is, of all places, on the New York Times site. http://laughlines.blogs.nytimes.com/2009/08/26/aquarium-1-cat-0/ http://tinyurl.com/ljbaa4 \\Steve//

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 42917	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 8/27/2009
Subject: Re: Aquarium 1, Cat 0

David, I had a cat that fell into a 55. She always blamed my wife for that dunking, even though my wife was nowhere near the cat or the tank. I don't even know how she got wet, she was out of there so quickly I did not think she had time to get wet. \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of David Keymel Sent: Thursday, August 27, 2009 9:01 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Aquarium 1, Cat 0 haha... we got a cat that sits on top of the tank and trys to paw down into it sometimes. its a pain in the butt! On Thu, Aug 27, 2009 at 8:32 AM, Steve Szabo <steve@...> wrote: > > > This is funny, especially if you also own a cat. Registration may be > required to see this video which is, of all places, on the New York > Times site. > > http://laughlines.blogs.nytimes.com/2009/08/26/aquarium-1-cat-0/ > http://tinyurl.com/ljbaa4 > > \\Steve// > > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 42918	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 8/27/2009
Subject: Re: Aquarium 1, Cat 0

Dora, You know that cat did that on purpose--to scare the fish. It also prevented her from becoming wet when doing it. Now, who do you think is dumb <g>. \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Dora Smith Sent: Thursday, August 27, 2009 5:56 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Aquarium 1, Cat 0 We wouldn't want to think cats are too bright, now. Yours, Dora Smith Austin, TX tiggernut24@... ----- Original Message ----- From: "Margie" <MargiePhelps@...> To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Thursday, August 27, 2009 9:31 AM Subject: [Bulk] Re: [AquaticLife] Aquarium 1, Cat 0 I thought cats were smarter then that..... So funny , thanks -------Original Message------- From: David Keymel Date: 8/27/2009 10:17:15 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Aquarium 1, Cat 0 haha... we got a cat that sits on top of the tank and trys to paw down into it sometimes. its a pain in the butt! On Thu, Aug 27, 2009 at 8:32 AM, Steve Szabo <steve@...> wrote: > > > This is funny, especially if you also own a cat. Registration may be > required to see this video which is, of all places, on the New York > Times site. > > http://laughlines.blogs.nytimes.com/2009/08/26/aquarium-1-cat-0/ > http://tinyurl.com/ljbaa4 > > \\Steve// > > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 42919	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 8/27/2009
Subject: Re: oscar ill

Mo, Try to feed him some vegetables. If you have not been soaking the freeze dried stuff before feeding, he may have a blockage, and vegetables will help him clear it out. \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of moira grubb Sent: Thursday, August 27, 2009 5:32 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] oscar ill cheers bill the first thing i did was a water change and have been trying him with different foods chicken prawns etc never tried earthworms so i will try that next he is in a 5 foot tank i do regular water changes and filter maintenance when i was watching him earlier it looked like he had a sort of twitching of his head a kind of jerking although he might just be trying to tell me to stop staring at him lol i do actually feed him quite a varied diet but only introduced the freeze dried stuff about 7 wks ago which he loved was just worried this might have caused a problem  is there any medication you could suggest he is definately under the weather and not his usual self thanks again mo --- On Thu, 27/8/09, bill 1433 <warrenprint@...> wrote: From: bill 1433 <warrenprint@...> Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] oscar ill To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Date: Thursday, 27 August, 2009, 10:01 PM Hi Mo! My name is Bill and a few thousand years ago (just kidding, but along time) I raised Oscars.  Many people are of the firm belief that Oscars are real pigs and will eat darn near anything.  While that may be true to a certain extent, they do like a change of menu from time to time and the same diet without any variation at all is not good for any fish including the Discus! While we are talking about the front door, lets go around the back door for a moment.  The fishes "bodily functions" are all in proper working order, I would assume? Now for Oscars house?  Does he has a large enough tank with plenty of room?  One Oscar= 1 55 gallon tank at least, a 100 would be better if tank mates are present. Next, how about your water changes and general upkeep of the tank?  Try a 25% water change first as well as a change in diet.  Have you ever fed him small, good old fashioned earthworms?  Oscars love them.  To an Oscar, space is the big thing.  What is the size of the tank, not just gallons but physical size?  A standard 55 at 4 feet long is fine for 1 Oscar but with tankmates?  A 5 footer that is about 18 inches wide to allow him room to swim and turn around would be better and a 6 foot job at a 125 gallons would be the best. Bill --- On Thu, 8/27/09, moiragrubb2000 <moiragrubb2000@ yahoo.co. uk> wrote: From: moiragrubb2000 <moiragrubb2000@ yahoo.co. uk> Subject: [AquaticLife] oscar ill To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com Date: Thursday, August 27, 2009, 4:25 PM hi i have been a member of this group for a while and find it interesting and informative just reading the e mails this is the first time ive had to ask for help i have an oscar  he is in an established tank had him about 4 years he is about 6 yrs old. this last few days he is not eating usually comes up to hand feed all water paramaters fine and cant see anything physically wrong but he definately not his usual self he shares his tank with 2 red sharks and a pleco all been in tank 4 yrs other fish fine only thing thats changed is i have been feeding him freeze dried river shrimp and krill since he has took a liking to it along with frozen blood worm and cichlid pellets not all at once obviously could it have anything to do with freeze dried food would appreciate any feedback ,suggestions on what i csn try as completely at a loss have put in some paragon oxygen tonic at the moment tonight he did make an effort to pick up some gravel and throw it at his tank mates but not interested in eating, any help would be appreciated, thanks, mo

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 42920	From: moiragrubb2000	Date: 8/28/2009
Subject: Re: oscar ill

--- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Steve Szabo" <steve@...> wrote: >sorry it was late at night that was a nitrite reading the sharks are red tailed and i will be moving them shortly i did think there might be a blockage so i am going to try him with some veggies only trouble is if i cant get him to eat will let you know what happens but i take it you would advise soaking the freeze dried in future i had already decided to do this but you would think they would tell you this on packet i usually soak freeze drier brine shrimp and tubiflex worms thanks mo > Mo, > > Try to feed him some vegetables. If you have not been soaking the freeze dried stuff before feeding, he may have a blockage, and vegetables will help him clear it out. > > \\Steve// > > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of moira grubb > Sent: Thursday, August 27, 2009 5:32 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] oscar ill > > cheers bill the first thing i did was a water change and have been trying him with different foods chicken prawns etc never tried earthworms so i will try that next he is in a 5 foot tank i do regular water changes and filter maintenance when i was watching him earlier it looked like he had a sort of twitching of his head a kind of jerking although he might just be trying to tell me to stop staring at him lol i do actually feed him quite a varied diet but only introduced the freeze dried stuff about 7 wks ago which he loved was just worried this might have caused a problem  is there any medication you could suggest he is definately under the weather and not his usual self thanks again mo > > --- On Thu, 27/8/09, bill 1433 <warrenprint@...> wrote: > > From: bill 1433 <warrenprint@...> > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] oscar ill > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Date: Thursday, 27 August, 2009, 10:01 PM > > Hi Mo! > > My name is Bill and a few thousand years ago (just kidding, but along time) I raised Oscars.  Many people are of the firm belief that Oscars are real pigs and will eat darn near anything.  While that may be true to a certain extent, they do like a change of menu from time to time and the same diet without any variation at all is not good for any fish including the Discus! > > While we are talking about the front door, lets go around the back door for a moment.  The fishes "bodily functions" are all in proper working order, I would assume? > > Now for Oscars house?  Does he has a large enough tank with plenty of room?  One Oscar= 1 55 gallon tank at least, a 100 would be better if tank mates are present. > > Next, how about your water changes and general upkeep of the tank?  Try a 25% water change first as well as a change in diet.  Have you ever fed him small, good old fashioned earthworms?  Oscars love them.  To an Oscar, space is the big thing.  What is the size of the tank, not just gallons but physical size?  A standard 55 at 4 feet long is fine for 1 Oscar but with tankmates?  A 5 footer that is about 18 inches wide to allow him room to swim and turn around would be better and a 6 foot job at a 125 gallons would be the best. > > Bill > > > > --- On Thu, 8/27/09, moiragrubb2000 <moiragrubb2000@ yahoo.co. uk> wrote: > > > > From: moiragrubb2000 <moiragrubb2000@ yahoo.co. uk> > Subject: [AquaticLife] oscar ill > To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com > Date: Thursday, August 27, 2009, 4:25 PM > > hi i have been a member of this group for a while and find it interesting and informative just reading the e mails this is the first time ive had to ask for help i have an oscar  he is in an established tank had him about 4 years he is about 6 yrs old. this last few days he is not eating usually comes up to hand feed all water paramaters fine and cant see anything physically wrong but he definately not his usual self he shares his tank with 2 red sharks and a pleco all been in tank 4 yrs other fish fine only thing thats changed is i have been feeding him freeze dried river shrimp and krill since he has took a liking to it along with frozen blood worm and cichlid pellets not all at once obviously could it have anything to do with freeze dried food would appreciate any feedback ,suggestions on what i csn try as completely at a loss have put in some paragon oxygen tonic at the moment tonight he did make an effort to pick up some gravel and throw it at his > > tank mates but not interested in eating, any help would be appreciated, thanks, mo >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 42921	From: David Keymel	Date: 8/28/2009
Subject: Re: Aquarium 1, Cat 0

haha that is awesome. cats are silly creatures. On Thu, Aug 27, 2009 at 9:54 PM, Steve Szabo <steve@...> wrote: > > > David, > > I had a cat that fell into a 55. She always blamed my wife for that > dunking, even though my wife was nowhere near the cat or the tank. I don't > even know how she got wet, she was out of there so quickly I did not think > she had time to get wet. > > \\Steve// > > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> [mailto: > AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On Behalf Of > David Keymel > Sent: Thursday, August 27, 2009 9:01 AM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Aquarium 1, Cat 0 > > haha... we got a cat that sits on top of the tank and trys to paw down into > > it sometimes. its a pain in the butt! > > On Thu, Aug 27, 2009 at 8:32 AM, Steve Szabo <steve@...<steve%40familyszabo.com>> > wrote: > > > > > > > This is funny, especially if you also own a cat. Registration may be > > required to see this video which is, of all places, on the New York > > Times site. > > > > http://laughlines.blogs.nytimes.com/2009/08/26/aquarium-1-cat-0/ > > http://tinyurl.com/ljbaa4 > > > > \\Steve// > > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 42922	From: David Keymel	Date: 8/28/2009
Subject: My Tailless Fishy

OK. its been a few weeks now, I have been using malifix to help the fin regrowth. The poor guy is apparently only growing half his tail back. The bottom half it seems. the rest will not grow. I am not sure what to do next. the poor guys been sitting on the bottom of the tank for a long while now, he moves around on his own but is never free swimming. I tried to coax him into a swim the other night but not much luck. i think hes getting stiff from sitting around. His body has a bit of a curl to it. Is there anything else i should try or is it time to release him from this torment to fishy heaven? I feel really bad for the little guy. Not that i ever want to really do this, i am trying to prepare myself. I know this subject has come up before, and its a grim one, but i found this website: http://www.ratemyfishtank.com/articles/81 I know some of the issues talked about here before show up on this site, and some others that have not. In particular i was looking into Tricaine Methanesulfonate (TMS) since it seems like the best choice for a regular home hobbyist. Please advise. Thanks you! [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 42923	From: Dora Smith	Date: 8/28/2009
Subject: Re: [Bulk] RE: [AquaticLife] Aquarium 1, Cat 0

Oh, I see. I thought cat was trying to pounce right thruogh the wall, and she MUST have done that more than once since they waited for her to do it with a camera. Cat in just the right comatose pose, I suppose. They couldn't have been patiently sitting with that camera all day. Yours, Dora Smith Austin, TX tiggernut24@... ----- Original Message ----- From: "Steve Szabo" <steve@...> To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Thursday, August 27, 2009 8:55 PM Subject: [Bulk] RE: [AquaticLife] Aquarium 1, Cat 0 Dora, You know that cat did that on purpose--to scare the fish. It also prevented her from becoming wet when doing it. Now, who do you think is dumb <g>. \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Dora Smith Sent: Thursday, August 27, 2009 5:56 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Aquarium 1, Cat 0 We wouldn't want to think cats are too bright, now. Yours, Dora Smith Austin, TX tiggernut24@... ----- Original Message ----- From: "Margie" <MargiePhelps@...> To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Thursday, August 27, 2009 9:31 AM Subject: [Bulk] Re: [AquaticLife] Aquarium 1, Cat 0 I thought cats were smarter then that..... So funny , thanks -------Original Message------- From: David Keymel Date: 8/27/2009 10:17:15 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Aquarium 1, Cat 0 haha... we got a cat that sits on top of the tank and trys to paw down into it sometimes. its a pain in the butt! On Thu, Aug 27, 2009 at 8:32 AM, Steve Szabo <steve@...> wrote: > > > This is funny, especially if you also own a cat. Registration may be > required to see this video which is, of all places, on the New York > Times site. > > http://laughlines.blogs.nytimes.com/2009/08/26/aquarium-1-cat-0/ > http://tinyurl.com/ljbaa4 > > \\Steve// > > > ------------------------------------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the home page. Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com to receive the digest, which includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com for the No E-Mail option where you will still be able to read messages on the group and post replies. Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com to receive individual e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 42924	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 8/28/2009
Subject: Re: My Tailless Fishy

The Clove Oil method mentioned and linked near the bottom of that article is probably one of the most common chemical methods of euthanasia and it's much less expensive than the TMS stuff. Here's a couple of articles I have in my Favorites folder, both using the Clove Oil method. Clove Oil is inexpensive and every home should already have a bottle of vodka in it... at least we do down here in N'Awlins! ;-) http://www.wisegeek.com/what-is-the-most-humane-way-to-euthanize-a-fish.htm http://www.aquatic-hobbyist.com/profiles/misc/cloveoil.html Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of David Keymel Sent: Friday, August 28, 2009 7:48 AM To: AquaticLife Subject: [AquaticLife] My Tailless Fishy OK. its been a few weeks now, I have been using malifix to help the fin regrowth. The poor guy is apparently only growing half his tail back. The bottom half it seems. the rest will not grow. I am not sure what to do next. the poor guys been sitting on the bottom of the tank for a long while now, he moves around on his own but is never free swimming. I tried to coax him into a swim the other night but not much luck. i think hes getting stiff from sitting around. His body has a bit of a curl to it. Is there anything else i should try or is it time to release him from this torment to fishy heaven? I feel really bad for the little guy. Not that i ever want to really do this, i am trying to prepare myself. I know this subject has come up before, and its a grim one, but i found this website: http://www.ratemyfishtank.com/articles/81 I know some of the issues talked about here before show up on this site, and some others that have not. In particular i was looking into Tricaine Methanesulfonate (TMS) since it seems like the best choice for a regular home hobbyist. Please advise. Thanks you!

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 42925	From: Margie	Date: 8/28/2009
Subject: Re: [Bulk] RE: [AquaticLife] Aquarium 1, Cat 0

I use to feed an outside cat on top of our hot tub (before it was hooked up) had to keep the food from the dogs. The day we hooked up the tub and had just filled it up to the top with water (duh, what else) my cat jumped up on the tub and went right in to the water. She flew out of the tub and the funny part was her right after, looking like she had done nothing wrong and shaking one leg at time, It was a real hoot. But she did learn to look before leaping. -------Original Message------- From: Dora Smith Date: 8/28/2009 10:47:13 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [Bulk] RE: [AquaticLife] Aquarium 1, Cat 0 Oh, I see. I thought cat was trying to pounce right thruogh the wall, and she MUST have done that more than once since they waited for her to do it with a camera. Cat in just the right comatose pose, I suppose. They couldn't have been patiently sitting with that camera all day. Yours, Dora Smith Austin, TX tiggernut24@... ----- Original Message ----- From: "Steve Szabo" <steve@...> To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Thursday, August 27, 2009 8:55 PM Subject: [Bulk] RE: [AquaticLife] Aquarium 1, Cat 0 Dora, You know that cat did that on purpose--to scare the fish. It also prevented her from becoming wet when doing it. Now, who do you think is dumb <g>. \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Dora Smith Sent: Thursday, August 27, 2009 5:56 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Aquarium 1, Cat 0 We wouldn't want to think cats are too bright, now. Yours, Dora Smith Austin, TX tiggernut24@... ----- Original Message ----- From: "Margie" <MargiePhelps@...> To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Thursday, August 27, 2009 9:31 AM Subject: [Bulk] Re: [AquaticLife] Aquarium 1, Cat 0 I thought cats were smarter then that..... So funny , thanks -------Original Message------- From: David Keymel Date: 8/27/2009 10:17:15 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Aquarium 1, Cat 0 haha... we got a cat that sits on top of the tank and trys to paw down into it sometimes. its a pain in the butt! On Thu, Aug 27, 2009 at 8:32 AM, Steve Szabo <steve@...> wrote: > > > This is funny, especially if you also own a cat. Registration may be > required to see this video which is, of all places, on the New York > Times site. > > http://laughlines.blogs.nytimes.com/2009/08/26/aquarium-1-cat-0/ > http://tinyurl.com/ljbaa4 > > \\Steve// > > > ------------------------------------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the home page. Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com to receive the digest, which includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com for the No E-Mail option where you will still be able to read messages on the group and post replies. Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com to receive individual e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links ------------------------------------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the home page. Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com to receive the digest, which includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com for the No E-Mail option where you will still be able to read messages on the group and post replies. Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com to receive individual e-mails Yahoo! Groups Links [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 42926	From: robbrouse	Date: 8/28/2009
Subject: Cycling and Nitrite

For those of you that have been following the cycling progress of my 55 Gallon tank here is the latest. I tested the water yesterday and here are the reading. Ammonia 0.00 Nitrites 0.00 Nitrate 5.0 PH 7.4 GH 11 KH 4 Temp been at 76 I did a 75% water change and after I got the water out and back in here are my reading as of 3:30 Mountain time yesterday. Ammonia 0.0 Nitrites 5.0 - could of been a miss-test Nitrate 5.0 PH 7.4 GH 11 KH 4 Temp been at 76 Here are the reading at 7:30 Last Night. Ammonia 0.0 Nitrites 2.0 Nitrate 5.0 PH 7.4 GH 11 KH 4 Temp been at 76 Here they are as of 8:30 Today (8-28-09) Ammonia 0.0 Nitrites 1.0 Nitrate 5.0 PH 7.4 GH 11 KH 4 Temp been at 76 I do have between .25 and .5 of Nitrite in my tap water. About a week ago I did a 15% Water change and it took about 45 minutes to get the nitrite back down to 0.0. The tank has been dose with ammonia for the last week after my number all hit the target goal twice a day with 10 ML and it took less than 6 hours both times to drop the ammonia to zero and the nitrite never lever zero or if it did it was zero during all tests. I dosed it with ammonia again last night and it was 0 again today. I guess my biggest thing is here if all keeps going the way it is every time I do a PWC I will shoot the Nitrite level back up. I was wondering if I should use a product like Amquel, Stress Zyme or Prime for my water conditioner. First do they work? Do the remove the nitrite (will you a zero reading with test kits) or do they just naturalize it? I have checked water source from 4 different places (all in different water districts) and they all have a Nitrite, all being very close to what my tap water is. I've spent to many money getting ready fro fish and getting it all set up I'm not going to be happy if I can't keep them. Anyways as always any suggesting would be helpful. The only thing I know numbers were perfect for over a week until I did the 75% water change and now it high again. It's been 17 Hours if there were fish in the tank this could of been a nightmare. Robb

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 42927	From: rebecca may	Date: 8/28/2009
Subject: Re: PLEASE help - strange thing on goldfish

Actually, after looking round the internet I have identified this as the start of anchorworm, which this fish and, now I have looked at other recently stocked fish in the local Wal-Mart where this came from, seem to have. This was the only fish with it at the time and I was told by the staff that it was an injury.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 42928	From: David Keymel	Date: 8/28/2009
Subject: Re: My Tailless Fishy

The site made it sound like clove oil was a controlled substance, i take it thats not the case. I thought it sounded odd, but i had never heard of the stuff before. On Fri, Aug 28, 2009 at 11:04 AM, Lenny V. aka GoldLenny < GoldLenny@...> wrote: > > > The Clove Oil method mentioned and linked near the bottom of that article > is > probably one of the most common chemical methods of euthanasia and it's > much > less expensive than the TMS stuff. > > Here's a couple of articles I have in my Favorites folder, both using the > Clove Oil method. Clove Oil is inexpensive and every home should already > have a bottle of vodka in it... at least we do down here in N'Awlins! ;-) > > http://www.wisegeek.com/what-is-the-most-humane-way-to-euthanize-a-fish.htm > > http://www.aquatic-hobbyist.com/profiles/misc/cloveoil.html > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right > side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) > > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> [mailto: > AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On > Behalf Of David Keymel > Sent: Friday, August 28, 2009 7:48 AM > To: AquaticLife > Subject: [AquaticLife] My Tailless Fishy > > OK. its been a few weeks now, I have been using malifix to help the fin > regrowth. The poor guy is apparently only growing half his tail back. The > bottom half it seems. the rest will not grow. I am not sure what to do > next. > the poor guys been sitting on the bottom of the tank for a long while now, > he moves around on his own but is never free swimming. I tried to coax him > into a swim the other night but not much luck. i think hes getting stiff > from sitting around. His body has a bit of a curl to it. Is there anything > else i should try or is it time to release him from this torment to fishy > heaven? I feel really bad for the little guy. > Not that i ever want to really do this, i am trying to prepare myself. I > know this subject has come up before, and its a grim one, but i found this > website: > > http://www.ratemyfishtank.com/articles/81 > > I know some of the issues talked about here before show up on this site, > and > some others that have not. In particular i was looking into Tricaine > Methanesulfonate (TMS) since it seems like the best choice for a regular > home hobbyist. > > Please advise. Thanks you! > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 42929	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 8/28/2009
Subject: Re: My Tailless Fishy

Clove Oil, aka Eugenol, is a common Toothache treatment. Here is Walgreen's page on the Red Cross Brand Toothache treatment for $6.99. This is one product that I've seen others use over the years for euthanasia of their fish. http://www.walgreens.com/store/catalog/Medications-%26-Pain-Relief/Complete- Medication-Kit-for-Toothache/ID=prod1769&navCount=0&navAction=push-product If link breaks, go to http://www.Walgreens.com and do a search on 'Red Cross Toothache'. It's only a 1/8 oz. (3.7ml) bottle but you only need a drop per cup of water (for fish under 3") so you still have plenty left over for toothache treatment, if needed. ;-) Use the vodka for any other pains you may have... like wives, mother-in-laws, etc. LOL Wikipedia's page on Oil of Cloves - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oil_of_cloves - says: (SNIP) Oil of cloves, also known as Clove oil, is an essential oil from the clove plant, Syzygium aromaticum. CAS number: 8015-98-2 It is a natural analgesic and antiseptic used primarily in dentistry for its main ingredient eugenol... ...There are three types of clove oil:[2] Bud oil is derived form the flower-buds of S.aromaticum. It consists of 60-90% eugenol, eugenyl acetate, caryophyllene and other minor constituents. Leaf oil is derived from the leaves of S.aromaticum. It consists of 82-88% eugenol with little or no eugenyl acetate, and minor constituents. Stem oil is derived from the twigs of S.aromaticum. It consists of 90-95% eugenol, with other minor constituents. (END SNIP) Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of David Keymel Sent: Friday, August 28, 2009 10:07 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] My Tailless Fishy The site made it sound like clove oil was a controlled substance, i take it thats not the case. I thought it sounded odd, but i had never heard of the stuff before. On Fri, Aug 28, 2009 at 11:04 AM, Lenny V. aka GoldLenny < GoldLenny@...> wrote: > > > The Clove Oil method mentioned and linked near the bottom of that > article is probably one of the most common chemical methods of > euthanasia and it's much less expensive than the TMS stuff. > > Here's a couple of articles I have in my Favorites folder, both using > the Clove Oil method. Clove Oil is inexpensive and every home should > already have a bottle of vodka in it... at least we do down here in > N'Awlins! ;-) > > http://www.wisegeek.com/what-is-the-most-humane-way-to-euthanize-a-fish.htm > > http://www.aquatic-hobbyist.com/profiles/misc/cloveoil.html > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles > referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically > under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) > > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> [mailto: > AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On Behalf > Of David Keymel > Sent: Friday, August 28, 2009 7:48 AM > To: AquaticLife > Subject: [AquaticLife] My Tailless Fishy > > OK. its been a few weeks now, I have been using malifix to help the > fin regrowth. The poor guy is apparently only growing half his tail > back. The bottom half it seems. the rest will not grow. I am not sure > what to do next. > the poor guys been sitting on the bottom of the tank for a long while > now, he moves around on his own but is never free swimming. I tried to > coax him into a swim the other night but not much luck. i think hes > getting stiff from sitting around. His body has a bit of a curl to it. > Is there anything else i should try or is it time to release him from > this torment to fishy heaven? I feel really bad for the little guy. > Not that i ever want to really do this, i am trying to prepare myself. > I know this subject has come up before, and its a grim one, but i > found this > website: > > http://www.ratemyfishtank.com/articles/81 > > I know some of the issues talked about here before show up on this > site, and some others that have not. In particular i was looking into > Tricaine Methanesulfonate (TMS) since it seems like the best choice > for a regular home hobbyist. > > Please advise. Thanks you! > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] ------------------------------------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. `..><((((>.`..`.><((((> .`.. , .`..><((((> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <((((><.`..`.<((((><.`.. , .`..<((((><`.. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the home page. Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com to receive the digest, which includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com for the No E-Mail option where you will still be able to read messages on the group and post replies. Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com to receive individual e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 42930	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 8/28/2009
Subject: Re: Cycling and Nitrite

OK. I'm puzzled about your nitrIte readings. In one test, you show nitrItes as 0.00ppm and then they jump to 5.0ppm? Or did you mean 0.5ppm??? I see in a later test that the nitrItes were at 2.0ppm and then 1.0ppm so I'm guessing you did mean 5.0ppm in the first test... but I'm confused as to how that jumped up? Did you dose ammonia shortly before doing the testing? Did you possibly overdose the ammonia? I see that the nitrItes dropped from 5.0ppm (330PM) to 2.0ppm (730PM) in only 4 hours so it appears that your tank is still cycling properly but I'm just not sure why they jumped up so high, so fast. Your 75% PWC should have only added less than 0.5ppm of nitrItes to the tank. Are you dosing the tank daily or twice daily with the 4-5ppm of ammonia? (which is 3-5 drops per gallon... depending on the size of the drops). I see you mentioned adding 10ml of ammonia which is the proper amount to add to a 55G tank to bring the ammonia level up to 5.0ppm. Why did you do a 75% PWC? There's no need to do this when fishless cycling unless the water has a low KH level as a low KH level can cause a fishless cycle to go into a stall since the bacteria need Carbonates. For simplicity, please include more details in the steps you are doing. For example: 8AM - Test Results before dosing with ammonia (list results) 830AM - dosed with ammonia to 5ppm 8PM - Test Results 12 hours later (list results) 830PM - dosed with enough ammonia to bring back up to 5ppm Etc., etc. Then we will be better able to see what is happening without having to guess as any missing steps. This isn't critical but is helpful for us to be able to answer your questions better. As I've pointed out in past posts, if your tap water has 0.5ppm or less of nitrItes, then doing a weekly 25% PWC will only increase the nitrite level in the tank to 0.125ppm which, if your filters are running, will almost immediately be converted to nitrAtes. There is NOTHING to worry about with such a low level of nitrItes. You DO NOT need to buy any special tap water dechlor product. Simply use API's Tap Water Conditioner or a similar product. API's 16oz. bottle is around $5.00 online (DrsFosterSmith.com) and will last you over a year on a single 55G tank. It's more concentrated than other products. With API, you only need 1ml per 10G of water where other products need 5ml or even 10ml per 10G of water. Last but not least, while there is no need to do these PWC's in your case, when you are doing them, are you using a dechlor on the water before adding it to the tank? Or, are you dosing the tank with the dechlor and then adding the water? Or what is your procedure. The devil is in the details somewhere in all of this. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of robbrouse Sent: Friday, August 28, 2009 10:15 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Cycling and Nitrite For those of you that have been following the cycling progress of my 55 Gallon tank here is the latest. I tested the water yesterday and here are the reading. Ammonia 0.00 Nitrites 0.00 Nitrate 5.0 PH 7.4 GH 11 KH 4 Temp been at 76 I did a 75% water change and after I got the water out and back in here are my reading as of 3:30 Mountain time yesterday. Ammonia 0.0 Nitrites 5.0 - could of been a miss-test Nitrate 5.0 PH 7.4 GH 11 KH 4 Temp been at 76 Here are the reading at 7:30 Last Night. Ammonia 0.0 Nitrites 2.0 Nitrate 5.0 PH 7.4 GH 11 KH 4 Temp been at 76 Here they are as of 8:30 Today (8-28-09) Ammonia 0.0 Nitrites 1.0 Nitrate 5.0 PH 7.4 GH 11 KH 4 Temp been at 76 I do have between .25 and .5 of Nitrite in my tap water. About a week ago I did a 15% Water change and it took about 45 minutes to get the nitrite back down to 0.0. The tank has been dose with ammonia for the last week after my number all hit the target goal twice a day with 10 ML and it took less than 6 hours both times to drop the ammonia to zero and the nitrite never lever zero or if it did it was zero during all tests. I dosed it with ammonia again last night and it was 0 again today. I guess my biggest thing is here if all keeps going the way it is every time I do a PWC I will shoot the Nitrite level back up. I was wondering if I should use a product like Amquel, Stress Zyme or Prime for my water conditioner. First do they work? Do the remove the nitrite (will you a zero reading with test kits) or do they just naturalize it? I have checked water source from 4 different places (all in different water districts) and they all have a Nitrite, all being very close to what my tap water is. I've spent to many money getting ready fro fish and getting it all set up I'm not going to be happy if I can't keep them. Anyways as always any suggesting would be helpful. The only thing I know numbers were perfect for over a week until I did the 75% water change and now it high again. It's been 17 Hours if there were fish in the tank this could of been a nightmare. Robb

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 42931	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 8/28/2009
Subject: Re: PLEASE help - strange thing on goldfish

Where did you find this information that says this is the "start of anchor worm"? Anchor worms are visible to the naked eye. Do you see an anchor worm "anchored" onto the spot or anywhere else on the fish? If not, it certainly could have been an infected area left over by a previous anchor worm that was removed, but in that case, it should still be treated as a secondary infection, not for a parasite. See this page for pictures of Anchor Worms. http://web.archive.org/web/20051217230513/http://www.fishpalace.org/disease. html OR http://preview.tinyurl.com/2m83ee Scroll down about 3/4th's of the page to get to the section about Anchor Worms to see a few good pictures of these external parasites. What are you doing as far as treatment now? I remember you were using PimaFix which I explained was not the proper medication but you haven't replied with any other information until now... at least not that I have seen. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of rebecca may Sent: Friday, August 28, 2009 10:14 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: PLEASE help - strange thing on goldfish Actually, after looking round the internet I have identified this as the start of anchorworm, which this fish and, now I have looked at other recently stocked fish in the local Wal-Mart where this came from, seem to have. This was the only fish with it at the time and I was told by the staff that it was an injury.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 42932	From: robbrouse	Date: 8/28/2009
Subject: Re: Cycling and Nitrite

After the larger water change it was 5.0 on the nitrite. I does the tank about 24 hours before I did the testing. Then I added tap water that was treated with the API conditioner. Then i filled it back up and the readers were off the chart. The reason I did the 75% water change I was going to add dish tomorrow. Wanted to get the water changed and let the tank sit for 48 hours so the temp all all could regulate and then add the fish tomorrow. This has been the daily steps for the last week. 5:00AM - Test Results before dosing with ammonia Ammonia 0.00 Nitrites 0.00 Nitrate 5.0 PH 7.4 GH 11 KH 4 Temp been at 76 5:20AM - dosed with ammonia to 5ppm 2:45 PM - Test Results 12 hours later Ammonia 0.00 Nitrites 0.00 Nitrate 5.0 PH 7.4 GH 11 KH 4 Temp been at 76 3:15 PM - dosed with ammonia to 5ppm This has been the routine for the last 7 days and as you can see in around 9:00 The levels were back at 0. You asked if I over does the ammonia not this time one time before I added 15 ML to see what would happen and this was done at the 2:45 3:00 PM test and it was done by morning. I did the LARGE PWC yesterday like I said I was sure the cycle was over and the tank was ready for fish so I did the large PWC and was going to go to the LFS in the morning and get my fish today was going to be the final planing day for the finned friends. I might of missed some of your question and I'm grateful for the help you have been giving me over the last month, Robb --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@...> wrote: > > OK. I'm puzzled about your nitrIte readings. In one test, you show > nitrItes as 0.00ppm and then they jump to 5.0ppm? Or did you mean 0.5ppm??? > I see in a later test that the nitrItes were at 2.0ppm and then 1.0ppm so > I'm guessing you did mean 5.0ppm in the first test... but I'm confused as to > how that jumped up? Did you dose ammonia shortly before doing the testing? > Did you possibly overdose the ammonia? > > I see that the nitrItes dropped from 5.0ppm (330PM) to 2.0ppm (730PM) in > only 4 hours so it appears that your tank is still cycling properly but I'm > just not sure why they jumped up so high, so fast. Your 75% PWC should have > only added less than 0.5ppm of nitrItes to the tank. > > Are you dosing the tank daily or twice daily with the 4-5ppm of ammonia? > (which is 3-5 drops per gallon... depending on the size of the drops). I > see you mentioned adding 10ml of ammonia which is the proper amount to add > to a 55G tank to bring the ammonia level up to 5.0ppm. > > Why did you do a 75% PWC? There's no need to do this when fishless cycling > unless the water has a low KH level as a low KH level can cause a fishless > cycle to go into a stall since the bacteria need Carbonates. > > For simplicity, please include more details in the steps you are doing. > > For example: > >8AM - Test Results before dosing with ammonia > (list results) > > 830AM - dosed with ammonia to 5ppm > > 8PM - Test Results 12 hours later > (list results) > > 830PM - dosed with enough ammonia to bring back up to 5p pm > > Etc., etc. > > Then we will be better able to see what is happening without having to guess > as any missing steps. This isn't critical but is helpful for us to be able > to answer your questions better. > > As I've pointed out in past posts, if your tap water has 0.5ppm or less of > nitrItes, then doing a weekly 25% PWC will only increase the nitrite level > in the tank to 0.125ppm which, if your filters are running, will almost > immediately be converted to nitrAtes. There is NOTHING to worry about with > such a low level of nitrItes. > > You DO NOT need to buy any special tap water dechlor product. Simply use > API's Tap Water Conditioner or a similar product. API's 16oz. bottle is > around $5.00 online (DrsFosterSmith.com) and will last you over a year on a > single 55G tank. It's more concentrated than other products. With API, you > only need 1ml per 10G of water where other products need 5ml or even 10ml > per 10G of water. > > Last but not least, while there is no need to do these PWC's in your case, > when you are doing them, are you using a dechlor on the water before adding > it to the tank? Or, are you dosing the tank with the dechlor and then > adding the water? Or what is your procedure. > > The devil is in the details somewhere in all of this. > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right > side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) > > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On > Behalf Of robbrouse > Sent: Friday, August 28, 2009 10:15 AM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Subject: [AquaticLife] Cycling and Nitrite > > For those of you that have been following the cycling progress of my 55 > Gallon tank here is the latest. > > I tested the water yesterday and here are the reading. > > Ammonia 0.00 > Nitrites 0.00 > Nitrate 5.0 > PH 7.4 > GH 11 > KH 4 > Temp been at 76 > > I did a 75% water change and after I got the water out and back in here are > my reading as of 3:30 Mountain time yesterday. > > Ammonia 0.0 > Nitrites 5.0 - could of been a miss-test > Nitrate 5.0 > PH 7.4 > GH 11 > KH 4 > Temp been at 76 > > Here are the reading at 7:30 Last Night. > > Ammonia 0.0 > Nitrites 2.0 > Nitrate 5.0 > PH 7.4 > GH 11 > KH 4 > Temp been at 76 > > Here they are as of 8:30 Today (8-28-09) > > Ammonia 0.0 > Nitrites 1.0 > Nitrate 5.0 > PH 7.4 > GH 11 > KH 4 > Temp been at 76 > > I do have between .25 and .5 of Nitrite in my tap water. About a week ago I > did a 15% Water change and it took about 45 minutes to get the nitrite back > down to 0.0. > > The tank has been dose with ammonia for the last week after my number all > hit the target goal twice a day with 10 ML and it took less than 6 hours > both times to drop the ammonia to zero and the nitrite never lever zero or > if it did it was zero during all tests. > > I dosed it with ammonia again last night and it was 0 again today. > > I guess my biggest thing is here if all keeps going the way it is every time > I do a PWC I will shoot the Nitrite level back up. I was wondering if I > should use a product like Amquel, Stress Zyme or Prime for my water > conditioner. First do they work? Do the remove the nitrite (will you a zero > reading with test kits) or do they just naturalize it? > > I have checked water source from 4 different places (all in different water > districts) and they all have a Nitrite, all being very close to what my tap > water is. > > I've spent to many money getting ready fro fish and getting it all set up > I'm not going to be happy if I can't keep them. Anyways as always any > suggesting would be helpful. > > The only thing I know numbers were perfect for over a week until I did the > 75% water change and now it high again. It's been 17 Hours if there were > fish in the tank this could of been a nightmare. > > Robb >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 42933	From: David Keymel	Date: 8/28/2009
Subject: Re: My Tailless Fishy

Thanks lenny ill stop by there and grab some i guess. On Fri, Aug 28, 2009 at 11:47 AM, Lenny V. aka GoldLenny < GoldLenny@...> wrote: > > > Clove Oil, aka Eugenol, is a common Toothache treatment. > > Here is Walgreen's page on the Red Cross Brand Toothache treatment for > $6.99. This is one product that I've seen others use over the years for > euthanasia of their fish. > > > http://www.walgreens.com/store/catalog/Medications-%26-Pain-Relief/Complete- > Medication-Kit-for-Toothache/ID=prod1769&navCount=0&navAction=push-product > > If link breaks, go to http://www.Walgreens.com and do a search on 'Red > Cross > Toothache'. > > It's only a 1/8 oz. (3.7ml) bottle but you only need a drop per cup of > water > (for fish under 3") so you still have plenty left over for toothache > treatment, if needed. ;-) Use the vodka for any other pains you may have... > like wives, mother-in-laws, etc. LOL > > Wikipedia's page on Oil of Cloves - > http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oil_of_cloves - says: > > (SNIP) > Oil of cloves, also known as Clove oil, is an essential oil from the clove > plant, Syzygium aromaticum. > > CAS number: 8015-98-2 > > It is a natural analgesic and antiseptic used primarily in dentistry for > its > main ingredient eugenol... > > ...There are three types of clove oil:[2] > > Bud oil is derived form the flower-buds of S.aromaticum. It consists of > 60-90% eugenol, eugenyl acetate, caryophyllene and other minor > constituents. > > Leaf oil is derived from the leaves of S.aromaticum. It consists of 82-88% > eugenol with little or no eugenyl acetate, and minor constituents. > > Stem oil is derived from the twigs of S.aromaticum. It consists of 90-95% > eugenol, with other minor constituents. > (END SNIP) > > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right > side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> [mailto: > AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On > Behalf Of David Keymel > Sent: Friday, August 28, 2009 10:07 AM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] My Tailless Fishy > > The site made it sound like clove oil was a controlled substance, i take it > thats not the case. I thought it sounded odd, but i had never heard of the > stuff before. > > On Fri, Aug 28, 2009 at 11:04 AM, Lenny V. aka GoldLenny < > GoldLenny@... <GoldLenny%40gmail.com>> wrote: > > > > > > > The Clove Oil method mentioned and linked near the bottom of that > > article is probably one of the most common chemical methods of > > euthanasia and it's much less expensive than the TMS stuff. > > > > Here's a couple of articles I have in my Favorites folder, both using > > the Clove Oil method. Clove Oil is inexpensive and every home should > > already have a bottle of vodka in it... at least we do down here in > > N'Awlins! ;-) > > > > > http://www.wisegeek.com/what-is-the-most-humane-way-to-euthanize-a-fish.htm > > > > http://www.aquatic-hobbyist.com/profiles/misc/cloveoil.html > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles > > referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically > > under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com><AquaticLife% > 40yahoogroups.com> [mailto: > > AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com><AquaticLife% > 40yahoogroups.com>] On Behalf > > Of David Keymel > > Sent: Friday, August 28, 2009 7:48 AM > > To: AquaticLife > > Subject: [AquaticLife] My Tailless Fishy > > > > OK. its been a few weeks now, I have been using malifix to help the > > fin regrowth. The poor guy is apparently only growing half his tail > > back. The bottom half it seems. the rest will not grow. I am not sure > > what to do next. > > the poor guys been sitting on the bottom of the tank for a long while > > now, he moves around on his own but is never free swimming. I tried to > > coax him into a swim the other night but not much luck. i think hes > > getting stiff from sitting around. His body has a bit of a curl to it. > > Is there anything else i should try or is it time to release him from > > this torment to fishy heaven? I feel really bad for the little guy. > > Not that i ever want to really do this, i am trying to prepare myself. > > I know this subject has come up before, and its a grim one, but i > > found this > > website: > > > > http://www.ratemyfishtank.com/articles/81 > > > > I know some of the issues talked about here before show up on this > > site, and some others that have not. In particular i was looking into > > Tricaine Methanesulfonate (TMS) since it seems like the best choice > > for a regular home hobbyist. > > > > Please advise. Thanks you! > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > ------------------------------------ > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. > `..><((((>.`..`.><((((> .`.. , .`..><((((> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a > post, > DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC > of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was > re: old subject)" <- <((((><.`..`.<((((><.`.. , .`..<((((><`.. > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. > > If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of unsubscribing, you > can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the > home page. > > Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com<aquaticlife-digest%40yahoogroups.com>to receive the digest, which > includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email > > Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com<aquaticlife-nomail%40yahoogroups.com>for the No E-Mail option where > you will still be able to read messages on the group and post replies. > > Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com<aquaticlife-normal%40yahoogroups.com>to receive individual > e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 42934	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 8/28/2009
Subject: Are my posts going through?

So far no one seems to be offering any advice on my tank issues and whether I'm right or not... I've been posting all my info that I have... Just making sure they're going through okay, I see them on my end okay ;) Amber

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 42935	From: David Keymel	Date: 8/28/2009
Subject: Re: Are my posts going through?

yes On Fri, Aug 28, 2009 at 12:54 PM, Amber Berglund <arberglund@...>wrote: > > > So far no one seems to be offering any advice on my tank issues and > whether I'm right or not... I've been posting all my info that I have... > Just making sure they're going through okay, I see them on my end okay ;) > > Amber > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 42936	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 8/28/2009
Subject: Re: Are my posts going through?

I got this one. Haven't seen any others in a while. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of David Keymel Sent: Friday, August 28, 2009 12:05 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Are my posts going through? yes On Fri, Aug 28, 2009 at 12:54 PM, Amber Berglund <arberglund@...>wrote: > > > So far no one seems to be offering any advice on my tank issues and > whether I'm right or not... I've been posting all my info that I have... > Just making sure they're going through okay, I see them on my end okay > ;) > > Amber > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] ------------------------------------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. `..><((((>.`..`.><((((> .`.. , .`..><((((> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <((((><.`..`.<((((><.`.. , .`..<((((><`.. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the home page. Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com to receive the digest, which includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com for the No E-Mail option where you will still be able to read messages on the group and post replies. Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com to receive individual e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 42937	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 8/28/2009
Subject: Re: Are my posts going through?

I got this one too. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Amber Berglund Sent: Friday, August 28, 2009 11:55 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Are my posts going through? So far no one seems to be offering any advice on my tank issues and whether I'm right or not... I've been posting all my info that I have... Just making sure they're going through okay, I see them on my end okay ;) Amber ------------------------------------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the home page. Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com to receive the digest, which includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com for the No E-Mail option where you will still be able to read messages on the group and post replies. Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com to receive individual e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 42938	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 8/28/2009
Subject: Re: Cycling and Nitrite

While your theory sounds good, you can't do the large PWC 48 hours before you add fish since you will still have to dose the tank each day for that 48 hours or your nitrifying bacteria will die off without an ammonia/nitrite food source. This is why the Fishless Cycling articles say to do the large 90% PWC shortly before adding fish. It doesn't take 48 hours for the temperature to come up from 76F to 80F. I'm still concerned about your Fishless Cycling test results but since you've been doing PWC's intermittently, it's hard to know what is really happening. Normally, at the end of a Fishless Cycle, the nitrAtes would be very high, which is why you do the large 90% PWC. In your case, your nitrAtes are only 5.0ppm. While the nitrAtes do not climb proportionately with the ammonia/nitrite levels, they should be climbing well over the 50.0ppm range after a fishless cycle. Once again, your intermittent PWC's have artificially lowered this number but have you ever seen your nitrAtes above 5ppm prior to doing a PWC? If they haven't been climbing, then either your nitrAte test is bad or you are not shaking the solutions enough or something. Don't buy fish yet. Continue dosing the tank for a few more days... maybe even a week and lets see if your nitrAtes are climbing to make sure your tank is cycling properly. DO NOT do any PWC's during this several days to week long test so we can get an accurate picture of what is happening. I'm not sure if you ever answered one of my earlier questions about filter media. Exactly what kind of filter media do you have in each filter system? Many of them come with Zeolite (whitish colored rocks) and many folks do not realize that this is an ammonia absorbing rock and will adversely affect you when trying to properly cycle a tank. Let me know. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of robbrouse Sent: Friday, August 28, 2009 11:40 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Cycling and Nitrite After the larger water change it was 5.0 on the nitrite. I does the tank about 24 hours before I did the testing. Then I added tap water that was treated with the API conditioner. Then i filled it back up and the readers were off the chart. The reason I did the 75% water change I was going to add dish tomorrow. Wanted to get the water changed and let the tank sit for 48 hours so the temp all all could regulate and then add the fish tomorrow. This has been the daily steps for the last week. 5:00AM - Test Results before dosing with ammonia Ammonia 0.00 Nitrites 0.00 Nitrate 5.0 PH 7.4 GH 11 KH 4 Temp been at 76 5:20AM - dosed with ammonia to 5ppm 2:45 PM - Test Results 12 hours later Ammonia 0.00 Nitrites 0.00 Nitrate 5.0 PH 7.4 GH 11 KH 4 Temp been at 76 3:15 PM - dosed with ammonia to 5ppm This has been the routine for the last 7 days and as you can see in around 9:00 The levels were back at 0. You asked if I over does the ammonia not this time one time before I added 15 ML to see what would happen and this was done at the 2:45 3:00 PM test and it was done by morning. I did the LARGE PWC yesterday like I said I was sure the cycle was over and the tank was ready for fish so I did the large PWC and was going to go to the LFS in the morning and get my fish today was going to be the final planing day for the finned friends. I might of missed some of your question and I'm grateful for the help you have been giving me over the last month, Robb --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@...> wrote: > > OK. I'm puzzled about your nitrIte readings. In one test, you show > nitrItes as 0.00ppm and then they jump to 5.0ppm? Or did you mean 0.5ppm??? > I see in a later test that the nitrItes were at 2.0ppm and then 1.0ppm > so I'm guessing you did mean 5.0ppm in the first test... but I'm > confused as to how that jumped up? Did you dose ammonia shortly before doing the testing? > Did you possibly overdose the ammonia? > > I see that the nitrItes dropped from 5.0ppm (330PM) to 2.0ppm (730PM) > in only 4 hours so it appears that your tank is still cycling properly > but I'm just not sure why they jumped up so high, so fast. Your 75% > PWC should have only added less than 0.5ppm of nitrItes to the tank. > > Are you dosing the tank daily or twice daily with the 4-5ppm of ammonia? > (which is 3-5 drops per gallon... depending on the size of the drops). > I see you mentioned adding 10ml of ammonia which is the proper amount > to add to a 55G tank to bring the ammonia level up to 5.0ppm. > > Why did you do a 75% PWC? There's no need to do this when fishless > cycling unless the water has a low KH level as a low KH level can > cause a fishless cycle to go into a stall since the bacteria need Carbonates. > > For simplicity, please include more details in the steps you are doing. > > For example: > >8AM - Test Results before dosing with ammonia (list results) > > 830AM - dosed with ammonia to 5ppm > > 8PM - Test Results 12 hours later > (list results) > > 830PM - dosed with enough ammonia to bring back up to 5p pm > > Etc., etc. > > Then we will be better able to see what is happening without having to > guess as any missing steps. This isn't critical but is helpful for us > to be able to answer your questions better. > > As I've pointed out in past posts, if your tap water has 0.5ppm or > less of nitrItes, then doing a weekly 25% PWC will only increase the > nitrite level in the tank to 0.125ppm which, if your filters are > running, will almost immediately be converted to nitrAtes. There is > NOTHING to worry about with such a low level of nitrItes. > > You DO NOT need to buy any special tap water dechlor product. Simply > use API's Tap Water Conditioner or a similar product. API's 16oz. > bottle is around $5.00 online (DrsFosterSmith.com) and will last you > over a year on a single 55G tank. It's more concentrated than other > products. With API, you only need 1ml per 10G of water where other > products need 5ml or even 10ml per 10G of water. > > Last but not least, while there is no need to do these PWC's in your > case, when you are doing them, are you using a dechlor on the water > before adding it to the tank? Or, are you dosing the tank with the > dechlor and then adding the water? Or what is your procedure. > > The devil is in the details somewhere in all of this. > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles > referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically > under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) > > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] > On Behalf Of robbrouse > Sent: Friday, August 28, 2009 10:15 AM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Subject: [AquaticLife] Cycling and Nitrite > > For those of you that have been following the cycling progress of my > 55 Gallon tank here is the latest. > > I tested the water yesterday and here are the reading. > > Ammonia 0.00 > Nitrites 0.00 > Nitrate 5.0 > PH 7.4 > GH 11 > KH 4 > Temp been at 76 > > I did a 75% water change and after I got the water out and back in > here are my reading as of 3:30 Mountain time yesterday. > > Ammonia 0.0 > Nitrites 5.0 - could of been a miss-test Nitrate 5.0 PH 7.4 GH 11 KH 4 > Temp been at 76 > > Here are the reading at 7:30 Last Night. > > Ammonia 0.0 > Nitrites 2.0 > Nitrate 5.0 > PH 7.4 > GH 11 > KH 4 > Temp been at 76 > > Here they are as of 8:30 Today (8-28-09) > > Ammonia 0.0 > Nitrites 1.0 > Nitrate 5.0 > PH 7.4 > GH 11 > KH 4 > Temp been at 76 > > I do have between .25 and .5 of Nitrite in my tap water. About a week > ago I did a 15% Water change and it took about 45 minutes to get the > nitrite back down to 0.0. > > The tank has been dose with ammonia for the last week after my number > all hit the target goal twice a day with 10 ML and it took less than 6 > hours both times to drop the ammonia to zero and the nitrite never > lever zero or if it did it was zero during all tests. > > I dosed it with ammonia again last night and it was 0 again today. > > I guess my biggest thing is here if all keeps going the way it is > every time I do a PWC I will shoot the Nitrite level back up. I was > wondering if I should use a product like Amquel, Stress Zyme or Prime > for my water conditioner. First do they work? Do the remove the > nitrite (will you a zero reading with test kits) or do they just naturalize it? > > I have checked water source from 4 different places (all in different > water > districts) and they all have a Nitrite, all being very close to what > my tap water is. > > I've spent to many money getting ready fro fish and getting it all set > up I'm not going to be happy if I can't keep them. Anyways as always > any suggesting would be helpful. > > The only thing I know numbers were perfect for over a week until I did > the 75% water change and now it high again. It's been 17 Hours if > there were fish in the tank this could of been a nightmare. > > Robb > ------------------------------------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the home page. Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com to receive the digest, which includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com for the No E-Mail option where you will still be able to read messages on the group and post replies. Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com to receive individual e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 42939	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 8/28/2009
Subject: Re: Are my posts going through?

Have you checked the Group to see if they are showing up there? http://pets.groups.yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife/messages Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Amber Berglund Sent: Friday, August 28, 2009 11:55 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Are my posts going through? So far no one seems to be offering any advice on my tank issues and whether I'm right or not... I've been posting all my info that I have... Just making sure they're going through okay, I see them on my end okay ;) Amber

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 42940	From: Margie	Date: 8/28/2009
Subject: Question - Silver Tip Shark

I have a 55 G tank with 6 Tiger Barbs, 2 catfish, 1 Pleco and this Silver Tip Shark. I have read this breed of Shark is not good in a 55 g tank, plus they need more of them, at least 3 in a shoal. They grow very large. This one runs the tank length all day long, he zips across, then up and over again in the same pattern. And that he should be returned to the store Pets Mart says he is ok with what I have. And I know not all at P.Mart know a lot about fish and their habits. But then not everyone giving advice on the 'net knows either. So, Lenny I know you do. So what is right? Is this Shark ok? Plus he looks more like a catfish. Is he in the catfish family? And I have a comment. When I tried having goldies and they were not to be due to parasites that totally wiped them out and now I have gone back to the tropicals. With the goldies I was getting brown algae also. When at Pet Mart's I asked what would get rid of brown algae, would a algae eater do it He said no, I asked if the pleco would, he said no. But I bought a Pleco anyway and guess what he has cleaned all the brown algae away. So they do suck the algae up. HE is a happy little sucker. I do not plan to add to the fish I have unless I need that one more Shark., I would go 2, but not three. Not if they grow that large. Are the fish I have a good balance? I have had tanks for 50 years and never had troubles before like the goldies. And the goldies have made me totally paranoid now and I don't want to feel like that again. I had tanks and never really worried about what I had or if they were ok together. But It seems the more I read the less secure I feel about fish. I want that warm and fuzzy feeling back again. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 42941	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 8/28/2009
Subject: Re: Are my posts going through?

I just looked at the Group's messages section and the last thread I see where you've posted was on 8/25 in your Mystery Snail Eggs thread and then this thread today... so apparently your emails are going off into a Yahoo Black Hole. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Amber Berglund Sent: Friday, August 28, 2009 11:55 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Are my posts going through? So far no one seems to be offering any advice on my tank issues and whether I'm right or not... I've been posting all my info that I have... Just making sure they're going through okay, I see them on my end okay ;) Amber

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 42942	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 8/28/2009
Subject: Re: Question - Silver Tip Shark

I'm answering as I read so bare with me. You certainly CAN NOT add more fish. In all likelihood, you are severely overstocked already. What kind of "2 catfish" do you have? The Pleco is also a catfish... do you know what species it is? As far as the Silver Tip Shark, I did not recognize this common name but I found some references to a "better" common name being Columbian Shark. Look at the pictures associated with this Mongabay profile and let us know if this is what you have. http://fish.mongabay.com/species/Arius_seemani.html If it is, then as you will see, this species of catfish... (so now you're up to four catfish in the tank) ;-)... actually grows to 24", not as large in captivity, likely due to being kept in undersized tanks and suffering from stunting issues. Even for a 15" fast swimming fish like this one, you should have at least a 8' to 10' long tank so your 55G is NOT nearly big enough. Print out the Mongabay profile which recommends a bare minimum of 100-125G of water just for this single fish. Further, this fish is a brackish water (somewhat salty water) fish which makes them even less compatible with your other fish and should be kept in groups, as you know, so really, for someone wanting to keep a shoal of these fish, they should have a 500G+ sized tank... maybe a little smaller if they do frequent PWC's and tank maintenance. As far as I know there are NO real "sharks" that live their lives in fresh water. Most of the fresh water fish that have the word "shark" as part of their name are usually from the catfish family. There are hundreds of catfish species with the smallest growing to only 1" and the largest growing to over 6' (SIX FEET) long so without knowing your species, it's hard to give any suggestions or advice. If your Pleco (also a catfish) is a common pleco, they grow to 18"+ and get too big for your 55G also. There are some dwarf species that stay under 6" but we would need to know what species you have before saying yeah or nay on the pleco... same for the other "2 catfish". You may be able to keep the pleco, if it's a common pleco at least until it grows to around 6" and then you would have to trade him in on a new baby common pleco or switch to a species of algae eater that stays smaller, like a Clown Pleco or Bristle Nose Pleco. Many LFS (local fish stores) will do the trade in thing. Most PetsMarts will not do this. So.. that leaves the 6 Tiger Barbs as the only certain species... hoping that one is right, of course. ;-) Here is the Mongabay profile on Tiger Barbs (Puntius tetrazona)... http://fish.mongabay.com/species/Puntius_tetrazona.html Look at the SC section (Suggested Companions) for the most likely fish to be suitable for being kept with this species. You will also see that these fish grow to around 3" each so these six fish would need at least 18G of your 55G total volume. This leaves you with 37G of water volume for your remaining fish. If you get a dwarf pleco, it would need around 10G of water volume so you would have 27G of water volume left over for addition fish that are mentioned in the SC section above. I'm presuming your other "2 catfish" are not going to be compatible with your tank. Please, in the future, do your own research or ask out here BEFORE buying fish so you can be more assured of getting fish that will work with your tank, water parameters and other fish. Asking after the fact makes life much harder for you and the fish. If you are an impulsive fish buyer, leave your purse and/or wallet in the car and only bring enough money to buy what you need, when you go into the PetsMart or LFS. ;-) Having a plan and working within that plan will bring back that warm and fuzzy fish feeling. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Margie Sent: Friday, August 28, 2009 1:22 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Question - Silver Tip Shark I have a 55 G tank with 6 Tiger Barbs, 2 catfish, 1 Pleco and this Silver Tip Shark. I have read this breed of Shark is not good in a 55 g tank, plus they need more of them, at least 3 in a shoal. They grow very large. This one runs the tank length all day long, he zips across, then up and over again in the same pattern. And that he should be returned to the store Pets Mart says he is ok with what I have. And I know not all at P.Mart know a lot about fish and their habits. But then not everyone giving advice on the 'net knows either. So, Lenny I know you do. So what is right? Is this Shark ok? Plus he looks more like a catfish. Is he in the catfish family? And I have a comment. When I tried having goldies and they were not to be due to parasites that totally wiped them out and now I have gone back to the tropicals. With the goldies I was getting brown algae also. When at Pet Mart's I asked what would get rid of brown algae, would a algae eater do it He said no, I asked if the pleco would, he said no. But I bought a Pleco anyway and guess what he has cleaned all the brown algae away. So they do suck the algae up. HE is a happy little sucker. I do not plan to add to the fish I have unless I need that one more Shark., I would go 2, but not three. Not if they grow that large. Are the fish I have a good balance? I have had tanks for 50 years and never had troubles before like the goldies. And the goldies have made me totally paranoid now and I don't want to feel like that again. I had tanks and never really worried about what I had or if they were ok together. But It seems the more I read the less secure I feel about fish. I want that warm and fuzzy feeling back again.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 42943	From: robbrouse	Date: 8/28/2009
Subject: Re: Cycling and Nitrite

The first small water change was done to see what would happen to the nitrite level being I have some in my tap. At this point I was at 0 reading on all and the nitrates has never been above 10. It has been at 5 since the test Tank cycled (ammonia and nitrates both hot 0) Other than Topping off the water this is all the water changes that have been done. I guess I misunderstood about the 2 day before added fish. Should of done it today I guess. It did take over night for the temp to raise to the 76 that my heater was set to. Like I stated I did not do a water change until both the ammonia spiked (stayed at 5.00 or greater for several days) and nitrates spiked (was at 5.0 for several days) and then I did a 10% to see what would happen to the nitrite level since I do have some in my tap water. Ok I don't think I'll hit the level of 0 on nitrites so I will not be added fish I still have been adding ammonia twice a day had like my last number show with in 9 to 10 hours all ammonia was gone and nitrate were down to 0. The highest my nitrates has been is 10. I bought a brand new kit and am not using any of the older test gear even though they all match in the reading,. As far as filters I have a Fluva; 305 as well as an Marineland Emperor Bio-Wheel 400 Power Filter filet. The Fluval has Fluval Bio-Max Rings and Carbon. The Emperor has the standard Filers and the Bio-Wheel. I have sued the ammo-lock stuff in the past but not on this setup. If I was at 5.0 reading for my nitrates like it stayed there for over a week should I even do a 90% water change? I don't believe in cycling with fish and I want to do this right. Last time I did a fishless cycle it was on a 10 Gallon tank and it cycled in 2 weeks I added 8 Black Neons and they all lived for about 2 years and then we went on vacation and the water changes were not done and 6 of the 8 died and the other two soon followed. The 55 gallon I had nothing but problems with from the start. I ended up replacing the tank (it cracked) added a new filter and spending several days washing the gravel to make sure nothing was left. Anyway I'm kind of stuck at this point. I know people that swear by anquel they say it will remove the ammonia and the nitrites from there tap water but it $35 for a gallon. I know it cost more but if it takes the ammonia and nitrates out would it be work it? --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@...> wrote: > > While your theory sounds good, you can't do the large PWC 48 hours before > you add fish since you will still have to dose the tank each day for that 48 > hours or your nitrifying bacteria will die off without an ammonia/nitrite > food source. This is why the Fishless Cycling articles say to do the large > 90% PWC shortly before adding fish. It doesn't take 48 hours for the > temperature to come up from 76F to 80F. > > I'm still concerned about your Fishless Cycling test results but since > you've been doing PWC's intermittently, it's hard to know what is really > happening. Normally, at the end of a Fishless Cycle, the nitrAtes would be > very high, which is why you do the large 90% PWC. In your case, your > nitrAtes are only 5.0ppm. While the nitrAtes do not climb proportionately > with the ammonia/nitrite levels, they should be climbing well over the > 50.0ppm range after a fishless cycle. Once again, your intermittent PWC's > have artificially lowered this number but have you ever seen your nitrAtes > above 5ppm prior to doing a PWC? If they haven't been climbing, then either > your nitrAte test is bad or you are not shaking the solutions enough or > something. > > Don't buy fish yet. Continue dosing the tank for a few more days... maybe > even a week and lets see if your nitrAtes are climbing to make sure your > tank is cycling properly. DO NOT do any PWC's during this several days to > week long test so we can get an accurate picture of what is happening. > > I'm not sure if you ever answered one of my earlier questions about filter > media. Exactly what kind of filter media do you have in each filter system? > Many of them come with Zeolite (whitish colored rocks) and many folks do not > realize that this is an ammonia absorbing rock and will adversely affect you > when trying to properly cycle a tank. > > Let me know. > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right > side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) > > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On > Behalf Of robbrouse > Sent: Friday, August 28, 2009 11:40 AM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Cycling and Nitrite > > After the larger water change it was 5.0 on the nitrite. > > I does the tank about 24 hours before I did the testing. Then I added tap > water that was treated with the API conditioner. Then i filled it back up > and the readers were off the chart. > > The reason I did the 75% water change I was going to add dish tomorrow. > Wanted to get the water changed and let the tank sit for 48 hours so the > temp all all could regulate and then add the fish tomorrow. > > This has been the daily steps for the last week. > > 5:00AM - Test Results before dosing with ammonia Ammonia 0.00 Nitrites 0.00 > Nitrate 5.0 PH 7.4 GH 11 KH 4 Temp been at 76 > > 5:20AM - dosed with ammonia to 5ppm > > 2:45 PM - Test Results 12 hours later > Ammonia 0.00 > Nitrites 0.00 > Nitrate 5.0 > PH 7.4 > GH 11 > KH 4 > Temp been at 76 > > 3:15 PM - dosed with ammonia to 5ppm > > This has been the routine for the last 7 days and as you can see in around > 9:00 The levels were back at 0. > > You asked if I over does the ammonia not this time one time before I added > 15 ML to see what would happen and this was done at the 2:45 3:00 PM test > and it was done by morning. > > I did the LARGE PWC yesterday like I said I was sure the cycle was over and > the tank was ready for fish so I did the large PWC and was going to go to > the LFS in the morning and get my fish today was going to be the final > planing day for the finned friends. > > I might of missed some of your question and I'm grateful for the help you > have been giving me over the last month, > > Robb > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@> > wrote: > > > > OK. I'm puzzled about your nitrIte readings. In one test, you show > > nitrItes as 0.00ppm and then they jump to 5.0ppm? Or did you mean > 0.5ppm??? > > I see in a later test that the nitrItes were at 2.0ppm and then 1.0ppm > > so I'm guessing you did mean 5.0ppm in the first test... but I'm > > confused as to how that jumped up? Did you dose ammonia shortly before > doing the testing? > > Did you possibly overdose the ammonia? > > > > I see that the nitrItes dropped from 5.0ppm (330PM) to 2.0ppm (730PM) > > in only 4 hours so it appears that your tank is still cycling properly > > but I'm just not sure why they jumped up so high, so fast. Your 75% > > PWC should have only added less than 0.5ppm of nitrItes to the tank. > > > > Are you dosing the tank daily or twice daily with the 4-5ppm of ammonia? > > (which is 3-5 drops per gallon... depending on the size of the drops). > > I see you mentioned adding 10ml of ammonia which is the proper amount > > to add to a 55G tank to bring the ammonia level up to 5.0ppm. > > > > Why did you do a 75% PWC? There's no need to do this when fishless > > cycling unless the water has a low KH level as a low KH level can > > cause a fishless cycle to go into a stall since the bacteria need > Carbonates. > > > > For simplicity, please include more details in the steps you are doing. > > > > For example: > > > >8AM - Test Results before dosing with ammonia (list results) > > > > 830AM - dosed with ammonia to 5ppm > > > > 8PM - Test Results 12 hours later > > (list results) > > > > 830PM - dosed with enough ammonia to bring back up to 5p pm > > > > Etc., etc. > > > > Then we will be better able to see what is happening without having to > > guess as any missing steps. This isn't critical but is helpful for us > > to be able to answer your questions better. > > > > As I've pointed out in past posts, if your tap water has 0.5ppm or > > less of nitrItes, then doing a weekly 25% PWC will only increase the > > nitrite level in the tank to 0.125ppm which, if your filters are > > running, will almost immediately be converted to nitrAtes. There is > > NOTHING to worry about with such a low level of nitrItes. > > > > You DO NOT need to buy any special tap water dechlor product. Simply > > use API's Tap Water Conditioner or a similar product. API's 16oz. > > bottle is around $5.00 online (DrsFosterSmith.com) and will last you > > over a year on a single 55G tank. It's more concentrated than other > > products. With API, you only need 1ml per 10G of water where other > > products need 5ml or even 10ml per 10G of water. > > > > Last but not least, while there is no need to do these PWC's in your > > case, when you are doing them, are you using a dechlor on the water > > before adding it to the tank? Or, are you dosing the tank with the > > dechlor and then adding the water? Or what is your procedure. > > > > The devil is in the details somewhere in all of this. > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles > > referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically > > under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] > > On Behalf Of robbrouse > > Sent: Friday, August 28, 2009 10:15 AM > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > Subject: [AquaticLife] Cycling and Nitrite > > > > For those of you that have been following the cycling progress of my > > 55 Gallon tank here is the latest. > > > > I tested the water yesterday and here are the reading. > > > > Ammonia 0.00 > > Nitrites 0.00 > > Nitrate 5.0 > > PH 7.4 > > GH 11 > > KH 4 > > Temp been at 76 > > > > I did a 75% water change and after I got the water out and back in > > here are my reading as of 3:30 Mountain time yesterday. > > > > Ammonia 0.0 > > Nitrites 5.0 - could of been a miss-test Nitrate 5.0 PH 7.4 GH 11 KH 4 > > Temp been at 76 > > > > Here are the reading at 7:30 Last Night. > > > > Ammonia 0.0 > > Nitrites 2.0 > > Nitrate 5.0 > > PH 7.4 > > GH 11 > > KH 4 > > Temp been at 76 > > > > Here they are as of 8:30 Today (8-28-09) > > > > Ammonia 0.0 > > Nitrites 1.0 > > Nitrate 5.0 > > PH 7.4 > > GH 11 > > KH 4 > > Temp been at 76 > > > > I do have between .25 and .5 of Nitrite in my tap water. About a week > > ago I did a 15% Water change and it took about 45 minutes to get the > > nitrite back down to 0.0. > > > > The tank has been dose with ammonia for the last week after my number > > all hit the target goal twice a day with 10 ML and it took less than 6 > > hours both times to drop the ammonia to zero and the nitrite never > > lever zero or if it did it was zero during all tests. > > > > I dosed it with ammonia again last night and it was 0 again today. > > > > I guess my biggest thing is here if all keeps going the way it is > > every time I do a PWC I will shoot the Nitrite level back up. I was > > wondering if I should use a product like Amquel, Stress Zyme or Prime > > for my water conditioner. First do they work? Do the remove the > > nitrite (will you a zero reading with test kits) or do they just > naturalize it? > > > > I have checked water source from 4 different places (all in different > > water > > districts) and they all have a Nitrite, all being very close to what > > my tap water is. > > > > I've spent to many money getting ready fro fish and getting it all set > > up I'm not going to be happy if I can't keep them. Anyways as always > > any suggesting would be helpful. > > > > The only thing I know numbers were perfect for over a week until I did > > the 75% water change and now it high again. It's been 17 Hours if > > there were fish in the tank this could of been a nightmare. > > > > Robb > > > > > > > ------------------------------------ > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. > ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> > PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to > the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT > LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- > <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. > > If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of unsubscribing, you > can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the > home page. > > Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com to receive the digest, which > includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email > > Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com for the No E-Mail option where > you will still be able to read messages on the group and post replies. > > Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com to receive individual > e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 42944	From: Margie	Date: 8/28/2009
Subject: Re: Question - Silver Tip Shark

OK, thank you for the info. I will see what I can do to remedy this problem -------Original Message------- From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny Date: 08/28/09 15:36:40 To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Question - Silver Tip Shark I'm answering as I read so bare with me. You certainly CAN NOT add more fish. In all likelihood, you are severely overstocked already. What kind of "2 catfish" do you have? The Pleco is also a catfish... do you know what species it is? As far as the Silver Tip Shark, I did not recognize this common name but I found some references to a "better" common name being Columbian Shark. Look at the pictures associated with this Mongabay profile and let us know if this is what you have. http://fish.mongabay.com/species/Arius_seemani.html If it is, then as you will see, this species of catfish... (so now you're up to four catfish in the tank) ;-)... actually grows to 24", not as large in captivity, likely due to being kept in undersized tanks and suffering from stunting issues. Even for a 15" fast swimming fish like this one, you should have at least a 8' to 10' long tank so your 55G is NOT nearly big enough. Print out the Mongabay profile which recommends a bare minimum of 100-125G of water just for this single fish. Further, this fish is a brackish water (somewhat salty water) fish which makes them even less compatible with your other fish and should be kept in groups, as you know, so really, for someone wanting to keep a shoal of these fish, they should have a 500G+ sized tank... maybe a little smaller if they do frequent PWC's and tank maintenance. As far as I know there are NO real "sharks" that live their lives in fresh water. Most of the fresh water fish that have the word "shark" as part of their name are usually from the catfish family. There are hundreds of catfish species with the smallest growing to only 1" and the largest growing to over 6' (SIX FEET) long so without knowing your species, it's hard to give any suggestions or advice. If your Pleco (also a catfish) is a common pleco, they grow to 18"+ and get too big for your 55G also. There are some dwarf species that stay under 6" but we would need to know what species you have before saying yeah or nay on the pleco... same for the other "2 catfish". You may be able to keep the pleco, if it's a common pleco at least until it grows to around 6" and then you would have to trade him in on a new baby common pleco or switch to a species of algae eater that stays smaller, like a Clown Pleco or Bristle Nose Pleco. Many LFS (local fish stores) will do the trade in thing. Most PetsMarts will not do this. So.. that leaves the 6 Tiger Barbs as the only certain species... hoping that one is right, of course. ;-) Here is the Mongabay profile on Tiger Barbs (Puntius tetrazona)... http://fish.mongabay.com/species/Puntius_tetrazona.html Look at the SC section (Suggested Companions) for the most likely fish to be suitable for being kept with this species. You will also see that these fish grow to around 3" each so these six fish would need at least 18G of your 55G total volume. This leaves you with 37G of water volume for your remaining fish. If you get a dwarf pleco, it would need around 10G of water volume so you would have 27G of water volume left over for addition fish that are mentioned in the SC section above. I'm presuming your other "2 catfish" are not going to be compatible with your tank. Please, in the future, do your own research or ask out here BEFORE buying fish so you can be more assured of getting fish that will work with your tank, water parameters and other fish. Asking after the fact makes life much harder for you and the fish. If you are an impulsive fish buyer, leave your purse and/or wallet in the car and only bring enough money to buy what you need, when you go into the PetsMart or LFS. ;-) Having a plan and working within that plan will bring back that warm and fuzzy fish feeling. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Margie Sent: Friday, August 28, 2009 1:22 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Question - Silver Tip Shark I have a 55 G tank with 6 Tiger Barbs, 2 catfish, 1 Pleco and this Silver Tip Shark. I have read this breed of Shark is not good in a 55 g tank, plus they need more of them, at least 3 in a shoal. They grow very large. This one runs the tank length all day long, he zips across, then up and over again in the same pattern. And that he should be returned to the store Pets Mart says he is ok with what I have. And I know not all at P.Mart know a lot about fish and their habits. But then not everyone giving advice on the 'net knows either. So, Lenny I know you do. So what is right? Is this Shark ok? Plus he looks more like a catfish. Is he in the catfish family? And I have a comment. When I tried having goldies and they were not to be due to parasites that totally wiped them out and now I have gone back to the tropicals. With the goldies I was getting brown algae also. When at Pet Mart's I asked what would get rid of brown algae, would a algae eater do it He said no, I asked if the pleco would, he said no. But I bought a Pleco anyway and guess what he has cleaned all the brown algae away. So they do suck the algae up. HE is a happy little sucker. I do not plan to add to the fish I have unless I need that one more Shark., I would go 2, but not three. Not if they grow that large. Are the fish I have a good balance? I have had tanks for 50 years and never had troubles before like the goldies. And the goldies have made me totally paranoid now and I don't want to feel like that again. I had tanks and never really worried about what I had or if they were ok together. But It seems the more I read the less secure I feel about fish. I want that warm and fuzzy feeling back again. ------------------------------------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the home page. Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com to receive the digest, which includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com for the No E-Mail option where you will still be able to read messages on the group and post replies. Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com to receive individual e-mails Yahoo! Groups Links [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 42945	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 8/28/2009
Subject: Re: Cycling and Nitrite

OK... you need to be certain of what you type or I cannot be certain of how to answer. In the second paragraph, you mention "nitrates spiked (was at 5.0 for several days)" and I'm presuming you meant nitrItes??? The nitrAtes is the end product of the nitrogen cycle... at least for the purposes of fishless cycling a tank. Every day that you add ammonia, that ammonia is converted to nitrIte. Then the nitrIte is converted to nitrAte. Ammonia and nitrIte is toxic to fish. NitrAte is only dangerous at very high levels, over 100ppm but we strive to keep them under 40ppm or even under 20ppm by doing our weekly 25% PWC's, using plants, etc.... once the tank is stocked and running. During a fishless cycle, there is NO NEED to do a PWC unless certain things happen like a stall in the cycling. This usually only happens with very low KH water, which is not present in your case. Your PWC's will NOT raise your nitrItes to any major level... even with a 100% water change, the nitrItes would only go to 0.5ppm so a 25% PWC would only raise them to 0.125ppm, which might not even show up on our test kits. I'm not sure why your nitrItes spiked from 0.0ppm to 5.0ppm after doing a PWC unless you shocked the nitrifying bacteria or did not fully dechlor the water or something. Unless you can replicate that event, I have no clue what happened. As I've stated, doing a PWC will NOT raise your nitrItes to 5.0ppm since your tap water only has 0.5ppm of nitrItes in it. It simply is NOT possible from a chemistry or math perspective... unless something else happened. Please do NOT get fish yet. Continue your fishless cycling for a few more days and lets make sure things are working properly. DO NOT do any PWC's while you continue the testing. Lets make sure things are working properly and then you can plan your next step. Remember that I had some doubts about your fishless cycle from the beginning after you stated that you started from scratch and it was fully cycling in less than two weeks.... but then I thought that maybe your 0.5ppm of nitrItes in your tap water might have helped to jump start things. Because of all of the weird fluctuations in your numbers, I'm very uncertain that your tank is cycling properly. Unless I see your nitrAtes start to rise, then I have to suspect something in your filter is removing the ammonia/nitrite/nitrate or you are not testing properly or your test kit is bad. This is a chemical process that HAS TO FOLLOW certain physiological processes, much like math where 1 + 1 + 1 = 3. Even in public schools, 1 + 1 + 1 still equals 3 and this is the only answer that is correct. With the nitrogen cycle, ammonia is converted to nitrIte is converted to nitrAte and then the nitrAte is kept at a safe level by doing PWC's, using plants and/or having advanced filtration methods where denitrification of the nitrates can be done. For us, we use PWC's and plants to help keep the nitrates at a safe level below 40ppm. You should have removed the carbon when you started fishless cycling. ALL of the fishless cycling articles that I've read have this as one of the steps. I'm not sure it hurts very much but I guess it does or they wouldn't have this as one of their steps. Further, there is NO NEED to run carbon in a filter system even with fish, much less without fish in a tank. It's just another way that the filter companies try to separate people from their hard-earned money. They must think they are the Guv'ment or something. ;-) If your nitrAtes have never been over 10ppm, then either your testing is compromised or something else is going wrong. For example, in a fully stocked tank, the fish put out around 5ppm of ammonia each day. After a week of this and with no plants or filter media to remove the nitrogenous compounds, the nitrates would be over 20ppm, possibly higher. Since you were dosing the tank with 5ppm, twice a day, your nitrates should be well over 40ppm, probably MUCH HIGHER and you are not seeing this figure. Look at your nitrate test instructions. Were you shaking the bottles prior to testing? Nitrate bottle #2 says to shake for at least 30 seconds but it should be more like 1 minute or more if the bottle has been sitting for a long time. If you did not do this each time, prior to testing, your nitrate bottle #2 is probably compromised and will NEVER give you accurate readings again. See if you can pick up another Nitrate test kit and shake it like crazy before using it and lets make sure your nitrates are correct. As far as filter cartridges, MANY of them, usually Tetra or TopFin brand actually have Zeolite inside of the filter cartridges so many fish keepers do not even realize this. I don't think that Marineland has started doing this but then I haven't bought any filter cartridges for any of my HOB's in many years so I'm not sure what they might be up to. If I know them, they would have started throwing this crap in their filters to force you to have to trash the filters and buy new ones more often. Last but not least, do you have live plants in your tank? This is another thing that IS NOT in the instructions for fishless cycling but I've seen people do it and it only messes up the fishless cycling process. Your carbon could also be doing this so please remove the carbon for these next few days. The other reason you should not use carbon when fishless cycling is that some of your good bacteria would then be growing on the carbon and since carbon gets thrown away every few weeks, you would be trashing the bacteria you worked so hard to grow. By not using carbon, it forces the good bacteria to grow on the Bio-Wheels and other filter media that will be staying in the tank, not getting trashed. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of robbrouse Sent: Friday, August 28, 2009 2:35 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Cycling and Nitrite The first small water change was done to see what would happen to the nitrite level being I have some in my tap. At this point I was at 0 reading on all and the nitrates has never been above 10. It has been at 5 since the test Tank cycled (ammonia and nitrates both hot 0) Other than Topping off the water this is all the water changes that have been done. I guess I misunderstood about the 2 day before added fish. Should of done it today I guess. It did take over night for the temp to raise to the 76 that my heater was set to. Like I stated I did not do a water change until both the ammonia spiked (stayed at 5.00 or greater for several days) and nitrates spiked (was at 5.0 for several days) and then I did a 10% to see what would happen to the nitrite level since I do have some in my tap water. Ok I don't think I'll hit the level of 0 on nitrites so I will not be added fish I still have been adding ammonia twice a day had like my last number show with in 9 to 10 hours all ammonia was gone and nitrate were down to 0. The highest my nitrates has been is 10. I bought a brand new kit and am not using any of the older test gear even though they all match in the reading,. As far as filters I have a Fluva; 305 as well as an Marineland Emperor Bio-Wheel 400 Power Filter filet. The Fluval has Fluval Bio-Max Rings and Carbon. The Emperor has the standard Filers and the Bio-Wheel. I have sued the ammo-lock stuff in the past but not on this setup. If I was at 5.0 reading for my nitrates like it stayed there for over a week should I even do a 90% water change? I don't believe in cycling with fish and I want to do this right. Last time I did a fishless cycle it was on a 10 Gallon tank and it cycled in 2 weeks I added 8 Black Neons and they all lived for about 2 years and then we went on vacation and the water changes were not done and 6 of the 8 died and the other two soon followed. The 55 gallon I had nothing but problems with from the start. I ended up replacing the tank (it cracked) added a new filter and spending several days washing the gravel to make sure nothing was left. Anyway I'm kind of stuck at this point. I know people that swear by anquel they say it will remove the ammonia and the nitrites from there tap water but it $35 for a gallon. I know it cost more but if it takes the ammonia and nitrates out would it be work it? --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@...> wrote: > > While your theory sounds good, you can't do the large PWC 48 hours > before you add fish since you will still have to dose the tank each > day for that 48 hours or your nitrifying bacteria will die off without > an ammonia/nitrite food source. This is why the Fishless Cycling > articles say to do the large 90% PWC shortly before adding fish. It > doesn't take 48 hours for the temperature to come up from 76F to 80F. > > I'm still concerned about your Fishless Cycling test results but since > you've been doing PWC's intermittently, it's hard to know what is > really happening. Normally, at the end of a Fishless Cycle, the > nitrAtes would be very high, which is why you do the large 90% PWC. > In your case, your nitrAtes are only 5.0ppm. While the nitrAtes do > not climb proportionately with the ammonia/nitrite levels, they should > be climbing well over the 50.0ppm range after a fishless cycle. Once > again, your intermittent PWC's have artificially lowered this number > but have you ever seen your nitrAtes above 5ppm prior to doing a PWC? > If they haven't been climbing, then either your nitrAte test is bad or > you are not shaking the solutions enough or something. > > Don't buy fish yet. Continue dosing the tank for a few more days... > maybe even a week and lets see if your nitrAtes are climbing to make > sure your tank is cycling properly. DO NOT do any PWC's during this > several days to week long test so we can get an accurate picture of what is happening. > > I'm not sure if you ever answered one of my earlier questions about > filter media. Exactly what kind of filter media do you have in each filter system? > Many of them come with Zeolite (whitish colored rocks) and many folks > do not realize that this is an ammonia absorbing rock and will > adversely affect you when trying to properly cycle a tank. > > Let me know. > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles > referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically > under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) > > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] > On Behalf Of robbrouse > Sent: Friday, August 28, 2009 11:40 AM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Cycling and Nitrite > > After the larger water change it was 5.0 on the nitrite. > > I does the tank about 24 hours before I did the testing. Then I added > tap water that was treated with the API conditioner. Then i filled it > back up and the readers were off the chart. > > The reason I did the 75% water change I was going to add dish tomorrow. > Wanted to get the water changed and let the tank sit for 48 hours so > the temp all all could regulate and then add the fish tomorrow. > > This has been the daily steps for the last week. > > 5:00AM - Test Results before dosing with ammonia Ammonia 0.00 Nitrites > 0.00 Nitrate 5.0 PH 7.4 GH 11 KH 4 Temp been at 76 > > 5:20AM - dosed with ammonia to 5ppm > > 2:45 PM - Test Results 12 hours later > Ammonia 0.00 > Nitrites 0.00 > Nitrate 5.0 > PH 7.4 > GH 11 > KH 4 > Temp been at 76 > > 3:15 PM - dosed with ammonia to 5ppm > > This has been the routine for the last 7 days and as you can see in > around 9:00 The levels were back at 0. > > You asked if I over does the ammonia not this time one time before I > added > 15 ML to see what would happen and this was done at the 2:45 3:00 PM > test and it was done by morning. > > I did the LARGE PWC yesterday like I said I was sure the cycle was > over and the tank was ready for fish so I did the large PWC and was > going to go to the LFS in the morning and get my fish today was going > to be the final planing day for the finned friends. > > I might of missed some of your question and I'm grateful for the help > you have been giving me over the last month, > > Robb > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" > <GoldLenny@> > wrote: > > > > OK. I'm puzzled about your nitrIte readings. In one test, you show > > nitrItes as 0.00ppm and then they jump to 5.0ppm? Or did you mean > 0.5ppm??? > > I see in a later test that the nitrItes were at 2.0ppm and then > > 1.0ppm so I'm guessing you did mean 5.0ppm in the first test... but > > I'm confused as to how that jumped up? Did you dose ammonia shortly > > before > doing the testing? > > Did you possibly overdose the ammonia? > > > > I see that the nitrItes dropped from 5.0ppm (330PM) to 2.0ppm > > (730PM) in only 4 hours so it appears that your tank is still > > cycling properly but I'm just not sure why they jumped up so high, > > so fast. Your 75% PWC should have only added less than 0.5ppm of nitrItes to the tank. > > > > Are you dosing the tank daily or twice daily with the 4-5ppm of ammonia? > > (which is 3-5 drops per gallon... depending on the size of the drops). > > I see you mentioned adding 10ml of ammonia which is the proper > > amount to add to a 55G tank to bring the ammonia level up to 5.0ppm. > > > > Why did you do a 75% PWC? There's no need to do this when fishless > > cycling unless the water has a low KH level as a low KH level can > > cause a fishless cycle to go into a stall since the bacteria need > Carbonates. > > > > For simplicity, please include more details in the steps you are doing. > > > > For example: > > > >8AM - Test Results before dosing with ammonia (list results) > > > > 830AM - dosed with ammonia to 5ppm > > > > 8PM - Test Results 12 hours later > > (list results) > > > > 830PM - dosed with enough ammonia to bring back up to 5p pm > > > > Etc., etc. > > > > Then we will be better able to see what is happening without having > > to guess as any missing steps. This isn't critical but is helpful > > for us to be able to answer your questions better. > > > > As I've pointed out in past posts, if your tap water has 0.5ppm or > > less of nitrItes, then doing a weekly 25% PWC will only increase the > > nitrite level in the tank to 0.125ppm which, if your filters are > > running, will almost immediately be converted to nitrAtes. There is > > NOTHING to worry about with such a low level of nitrItes. > > > > You DO NOT need to buy any special tap water dechlor product. > > Simply use API's Tap Water Conditioner or a similar product. API's 16oz. > > bottle is around $5.00 online (DrsFosterSmith.com) and will last you > > over a year on a single 55G tank. It's more concentrated than other > > products. With API, you only need 1ml per 10G of water where other > > products need 5ml or even 10ml per 10G of water. > > > > Last but not least, while there is no need to do these PWC's in your > > case, when you are doing them, are you using a dechlor on the water > > before adding it to the tank? Or, are you dosing the tank with the > > dechlor and then adding the water? Or what is your procedure. > > > > The devil is in the details somewhere in all of this. > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles > > referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, > > alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] > > On Behalf Of robbrouse > > Sent: Friday, August 28, 2009 10:15 AM > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > Subject: [AquaticLife] Cycling and Nitrite > > > > For those of you that have been following the cycling progress of my > > 55 Gallon tank here is the latest. > > > > I tested the water yesterday and here are the reading. > > > > Ammonia 0.00 > > Nitrites 0.00 > > Nitrate 5.0 > > PH 7.4 > > GH 11 > > KH 4 > > Temp been at 76 > > > > I did a 75% water change and after I got the water out and back in > > here are my reading as of 3:30 Mountain time yesterday. > > > > Ammonia 0.0 > > Nitrites 5.0 - could of been a miss-test Nitrate 5.0 PH 7.4 GH 11 KH > > 4 Temp been at 76 > > > > Here are the reading at 7:30 Last Night. > > > > Ammonia 0.0 > > Nitrites 2.0 > > Nitrate 5.0 > > PH 7.4 > > GH 11 > > KH 4 > > Temp been at 76 > > > > Here they are as of 8:30 Today (8-28-09) > > > > Ammonia 0.0 > > Nitrites 1.0 > > Nitrate 5.0 > > PH 7.4 > > GH 11 > > KH 4 > > Temp been at 76 > > > > I do have between .25 and .5 of Nitrite in my tap water. About a > > week ago I did a 15% Water change and it took about 45 minutes to > > get the nitrite back down to 0.0. > > > > The tank has been dose with ammonia for the last week after my > > number all hit the target goal twice a day with 10 ML and it took > > less than 6 hours both times to drop the ammonia to zero and the > > nitrite never lever zero or if it did it was zero during all tests. > > > > I dosed it with ammonia again last night and it was 0 again today. > > > > I guess my biggest thing is here if all keeps going the way it is > > every time I do a PWC I will shoot the Nitrite level back up. I was > > wondering if I should use a product like Amquel, Stress Zyme or > > Prime for my water conditioner. First do they work? Do the remove > > the nitrite (will you a zero reading with test kits) or do they just > naturalize it? > > > > I have checked water source from 4 different places (all in > > different water > > districts) and they all have a Nitrite, all being very close to what > > my tap water is. > > > > I've spent to many money getting ready fro fish and getting it all > > set up I'm not going to be happy if I can't keep them. Anyways as > > always any suggesting would be helpful. > > > > The only thing I know numbers were perfect for over a week until I > > did the 75% water change and now it high again. It's been 17 Hours > > if there were fish in the tank this could of been a nightmare. > > > > Robb

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 42946	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 8/28/2009
Subject: Re: Question - Silver Tip Shark

ARGGHHH.. you didn't answer any of my questions. Do you know what kind of "2 catfish" that you have or what species of Pleco? Did you look at the pictures of the Columbian Shark to see if that is what you have? Re-read my reply and let me know more answers since I could not give you my answers without knowing the correct information. Is it some kind of software on your computer that causes your replies to lose all formatting? My reply was separated into various paragraphs, etc., and in your reply, it's all one big run-on sentence. Does this happen to you with all of your email replies? Many of us in this group are also computer competent and maybe we can help with this as well. ;-) Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Margie Sent: Friday, August 28, 2009 2:45 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Question - Silver Tip Shark OK, thank you for the info. I will see what I can do to remedy this problem -------Original Message------- From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny Date: 08/28/09 15:36:40 To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Question - Silver Tip Shark I'm answering as I read so bare with me. You certainly CAN NOT add more fish. In all likelihood, you are severely overstocked already. What kind of "2 catfish" do you have? The Pleco is also a catfish... do you know what species it is? As far as the Silver Tip Shark, I did not recognize this common name but I found some references to a "better" common name being Columbian Shark. Look at the pictures associated with this Mongabay profile and let us know if this is what you have. http://fish.mongabay.com/species/Arius_seemani.html If it is, then as you will see, this species of catfish... (so now you're up to four catfish in the tank) ;-)... actually grows to 24", not as large in captivity, likely due to being kept in undersized tanks and suffering from stunting issues. Even for a 15" fast swimming fish like this one, you should have at least a 8' to 10' long tank so your 55G is NOT nearly big enough. Print out the Mongabay profile which recommends a bare minimum of 100-125G of water just for this single fish. Further, this fish is a brackish water (somewhat salty water) fish which makes them even less compatible with your other fish and should be kept in groups, as you know, so really, for someone wanting to keep a shoal of these fish, they should have a 500G+ sized tank... maybe a little smaller if they do frequent PWC's and tank maintenance. As far as I know there are NO real "sharks" that live their lives in fresh water. Most of the fresh water fish that have the word "shark" as part of their name are usually from the catfish family. There are hundreds of catfish species with the smallest growing to only 1" and the largest growing to over 6' (SIX FEET) long so without knowing your species, it's hard to give any suggestions or advice. If your Pleco (also a catfish) is a common pleco, they grow to 18"+ and get too big for your 55G also. There are some dwarf species that stay under 6" but we would need to know what species you have before saying yeah or nay on the pleco... same for the other "2 catfish". You may be able to keep the pleco, if it's a common pleco at least until it grows to around 6" and then you would have to trade him in on a new baby common pleco or switch to a species of algae eater that stays smaller, like a Clown Pleco or Bristle Nose Pleco. Many LFS (local fish stores) will do the trade in thing. Most PetsMarts will not do this. So.. that leaves the 6 Tiger Barbs as the only certain species... hoping that one is right, of course. ;-) Here is the Mongabay profile on Tiger Barbs (Puntius tetrazona)... http://fish.mongabay.com/species/Puntius_tetrazona.html Look at the SC section (Suggested Companions) for the most likely fish to be suitable for being kept with this species. You will also see that these fish grow to around 3" each so these six fish would need at least 18G of your 55G total volume. This leaves you with 37G of water volume for your remaining fish. If you get a dwarf pleco, it would need around 10G of water volume so you would have 27G of water volume left over for addition fish that are mentioned in the SC section above. I'm presuming your other "2 catfish" are not going to be compatible with your tank. Please, in the future, do your own research or ask out here BEFORE buying fish so you can be more assured of getting fish that will work with your tank, water parameters and other fish. Asking after the fact makes life much harder for you and the fish. If you are an impulsive fish buyer, leave your purse and/or wallet in the car and only bring enough money to buy what you need, when you go into the PetsMart or LFS. ;-) Having a plan and working within that plan will bring back that warm and fuzzy fish feeling. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Margie Sent: Friday, August 28, 2009 1:22 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Question - Silver Tip Shark I have a 55 G tank with 6 Tiger Barbs, 2 catfish, 1 Pleco and this Silver Tip Shark. I have read this breed of Shark is not good in a 55 g tank, plus they need more of them, at least 3 in a shoal. They grow very large. This one runs the tank length all day long, he zips across, then up and over again in the same pattern. And that he should be returned to the store Pets Mart says he is ok with what I have. And I know not all at P.Mart know a lot about fish and their habits. But then not everyone giving advice on the 'net knows either. So, Lenny I know you do. So what is right? Is this Shark ok? Plus he looks more like a catfish. Is he in the catfish family? And I have a comment. When I tried having goldies and they were not to be due to parasites that totally wiped them out and now I have gone back to the tropicals. With the goldies I was getting brown algae also. When at Pet Mart's I asked what would get rid of brown algae, would a algae eater do it He said no, I asked if the pleco would, he said no. But I bought a Pleco anyway and guess what he has cleaned all the brown algae away. So they do suck the algae up. HE is a happy little sucker. I do not plan to add to the fish I have unless I need that one more Shark., I would go 2, but not three. Not if they grow that large. Are the fish I have a good balance? I have had tanks for 50 years and never had troubles before like the goldies. And the goldies have made me totally paranoid now and I don't want to feel like that again. I had tanks and never really worried about what I had or if they were ok together. But It seems the more I read the less secure I feel about fish. I want that warm and fuzzy feeling back again.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 42947	From: silvercat151	Date: 8/28/2009
Subject: Re: PLEASE help - strange thing on goldfish

Please see this http://www.aquariacentral.com/forums/showthread.php?t=204402 which has photos of my fish, and I will be posting photos which I took at Wal-Mart today of other infected fish with visible trailing things. This is new stock since I bought my fish, which was sold to me as having a 'wound' . I stopped using Pimafix some time ago, as this seemed to have cleared.It has since returned. Last night I started using Parasite Clear. If you read my posts on the above thread, you will see the full story and agreement of an experienced person there that this is a case of Anchorworm. Thanks! --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@...> wrote: > > Where did you find this information that says this is the "start of anchor > worm"? > > Anchor worms are visible to the naked eye. Do you see an anchor worm > "anchored" onto the spot or anywhere else on the fish? If not, it certainly > could have been an infected area left over by a previous anchor worm that > was removed, but in that case, it should still be treated as a secondary > infection, not for a parasite. > > See this page for pictures of Anchor Worms. > > http://web.archive.org/web/20051217230513/http://www.fishpalace.org/disease. > html OR > > http://preview.tinyurl.com/2m83ee > > Scroll down about 3/4th's of the page to get to the section about Anchor > Worms to see a few good pictures of these external parasites. > > What are you doing as far as treatment now? I remember you were using > PimaFix which I explained was not the proper medication but you haven't > replied with any other information until now... at least not that I have > seen. > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right > side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) > > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On > Behalf Of rebecca may > Sent: Friday, August 28, 2009 10:14 AM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: PLEASE help - strange thing on goldfish > > Actually, after looking round the internet I have identified this as the > start of anchorworm, which this fish and, now I have looked at other > recently stocked fish in the local Wal-Mart where this came from, seem to > have. This was the only fish with it at the time and I was told by the staff > that it was an injury. >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 42948	From: Dora Smith	Date: 8/28/2009
Subject: How to treat my betta's disappearing tail fin

My betta has the Case of the Disappearing Tail Fin. I don't know what's causing it; don't know if maybe he mangled it when he got dropped during water changes a couple of times. Not, betta wants to be picked up and put back in teh water, NOOOOO. I've tried six drops of melafix to a gallon of water, and one tsp salt per gallon. Not working. Betta otherwise seems fine - swimming around, appetite is fine, eats almost anything. Ocean nutrition betta pellets, Ocean nutrition formula one flakes, mosquito larvae from the algae rock farm, spectrum small fish pellets, and a little piece of cooked salmon. Betta is in a two gallon container with 1.5 gallons of water that gets changed completely every day - I couldn't come up with a satisfactory way to get the poop out of the gravel with my siphon. I want to use antibiotic, but the instructions are all for regular tropical fish, not for bettas. What and specifically what dose do you recommend? Yours, Dora Smith Austin, TX tiggernut24@... Yours, Dora Smith Austin, TX tiggernut24@...

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 42949	From: sevenspringss	Date: 8/28/2009
Subject: Re: Question - Silver Tip Shark

Could just be that this is a "regular plain ole Silver Shark" (not Silver "Tip") -- otherwise known as Tri-Color Shark or Bala Shark (Balantiocheilos melanopterus), as would be my best guess. They're a member of the Cyprinid Family as are other freshwater "Sharks," and are related to Barbs, Carps and Goldfish (not catfish). This species gets to 14". Ray --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@...> wrote: > > I'm answering as I read so bare with me. You certainly CAN NOT add more > fish. In all likelihood, you are severely overstocked already. > > What kind of "2 catfish" do you have? The Pleco is also a catfish... do you > know what species it is? > > As far as the Silver Tip Shark, I did not recognize this common name but I > found some references to a "better" common name being Columbian Shark. Look > at the pictures associated with this Mongabay profile and let us know if > this is what you have. > http://fish.mongabay.com/species/Arius_seemani.html > > If it is, then as you will see, this species of catfish... (so now you're up > to four catfish in the tank) ;-)... actually grows to 24", not as large in > captivity, likely due to being kept in undersized tanks and suffering from > stunting issues. Even for a 15" fast swimming fish like this one, you > should have at least a 8' to 10' long tank so your 55G is NOT nearly big > enough. > > Print out the Mongabay profile which recommends a bare minimum of 100-125G > of water just for this single fish. Further, this fish is a brackish water > (somewhat salty water) fish which makes them even less compatible with your > other fish and should be kept in groups, as you know, so really, for someone > wanting to keep a shoal of these fish, they should have a 500G+ sized > tank... maybe a little smaller if they do frequent PWC's and tank > maintenance. > > As far as I know there are NO real "sharks" that live their lives in fresh > water. Most of the fresh water fish that have the word "shark" as part of > their name are usually from the catfish family. > > There are hundreds of catfish species with the smallest growing to only 1" > and the largest growing to over 6' (SIX FEET) long so without knowing your > species, it's hard to give any suggestions or advice. > > If your Pleco (also a catfish) is a common pleco, they grow to 18"+ and get > too big for your 55G also. There are some dwarf species that stay under 6" > but we would need to know what species you have before saying yeah or nay on > the pleco... same for the other "2 catfish". You may be able to keep the > pleco, if it's a common pleco at least until it grows to around 6" and then > you would have to trade him in on a new baby common pleco or switch to a > species of algae eater that stays smaller, like a Clown Pleco or Bristle > Nose Pleco. Many LFS (local fish stores) will do the trade in thing. Most > PetsMarts will not do this. > > So.. that leaves the 6 Tiger Barbs as the only certain species... hoping > that one is right, of course. ;-) > > Here is the Mongabay profile on Tiger Barbs (Puntius tetrazona)... > http://fish.mongabay.com/species/Puntius_tetrazona.html > > Look at the SC section (Suggested Companions) for the most likely fish to be > suitable for being kept with this species. > > You will also see that these fish grow to around 3" each so these six fish > would need at least 18G of your 55G total volume. This leaves you with 37G > of water volume for your remaining fish. If you get a dwarf pleco, it would > need around 10G of water volume so you would have 27G of water volume left > over for addition fish that are mentioned in the SC section above. > > I'm presuming your other "2 catfish" are not going to be compatible with > your tank. > > Please, in the future, do your own research or ask out here BEFORE buying > fish so you can be more assured of getting fish that will work with your > tank, water parameters and other fish. Asking after the fact makes life > much harder for you and the fish. > > If you are an impulsive fish buyer, leave your purse and/or wallet in the > car and only bring enough money to buy what you need, when you go into the > PetsMart or LFS. ;-) > > Having a plan and working within that plan will bring back that warm and > fuzzy fish feeling. > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right > side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) > > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On > Behalf Of Margie > Sent: Friday, August 28, 2009 1:22 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Subject: [AquaticLife] Question - Silver Tip Shark > > I have a 55 G tank with 6 Tiger Barbs, 2 catfish, 1 Pleco and this Silver > Tip Shark. I have read this breed of Shark is not good in a 55 g tank, > plus they need more of them, at least 3 in a shoal. They grow very large. > This one runs the tank length all day long, he zips across, then up and > over again in the same pattern. And that he should be returned to the store > Pets Mart says he is ok with what I have. And I know not all at P.Mart > know a lot about fish and their habits. But then not everyone giving advice > on the 'net knows either. So, Lenny I know you do. So what is right? Is > this Shark ok? Plus he looks more like a catfish. Is he in the catfish > family? And I have a comment. When I tried having goldies and they > were not to be > due to parasites that totally wiped them out and now I have gone back to > the tropicals. With the goldies I was getting brown algae also. When at Pet > Mart's I asked what would get rid of brown algae, would a algae eater do it > He said no, I asked if the pleco would, he said no. But I bought a Pleco > anyway and guess what he has cleaned all the brown algae away. So they do > suck the algae up. HE is a happy little sucker. I do not plan to add to > the fish I have unless I need that one more Shark., > I would go 2, but not three. Not if they grow that large. Are the fish I > have a good balance? I have had tanks for 50 years and > never had troubles before like the goldies. And the goldies have made me > totally paranoid now and I don't want to feel like that again. I had tanks > and never really worried about what I had or if they were ok together. But > It seems the more I read the less secure I feel about fish. I want that > warm and fuzzy feeling back again. >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 42950	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 8/28/2009
Subject: Re: Are my posts going through?

Weird I've been posting to the changing water thread with questions and thought I was getting ignored. They show as sent to the group on my end... guess I will repost at lunch. Amber On Aug 28, 2009 10:50 AM, "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@...> wrote: I just looked at the Group's messages section and the last thread I see where you've posted was on 8/25 in your Mystery Snail Eggs thread and then this thread today... so apparently your emails are going off into a Yahoo Black Hole. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in ab... So far no one seems to be offering any advice on my tank issues and whether I'm right or not... I've... [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 42951	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 8/28/2009
Subject: Re: PLEASE help - strange thing on goldfish

I looked over the pictures and I see NO evidence of anchor worms, only a lesion/injury on the left top of the fish where it meets the dorsal fin. Your pictures are clear and if the fish had an anchor worm, it would be visible. Now.. this doesn't mean that the fish might not have HAD an anchor worm at some point at that spot and you might now have a secondary infection from the bite. I'm not sure I would treat with an anti-parasite and instead I would treat with either antibiotic treated food and/or something like Maracyn in the water column. Even Melafix in the water column OR just use salt, slowly raised to two teaspoons per gallon would help with an external infection. The salt would also help to kill off any parasites for that matter. You do NOT need to buy any kind of special so-called aquarium salt. Just normal old salt from your grocery store, preferably the plain kind but even if iodized, it's OK too. Iodized salt might be a slight concern in an outdoor pond, when exposed to the sun, but it's not an issue in our indoor tanks. If your budget it tight... and who's isn't???... then you could start off by slowly raising the salt level to 2 teaspoons per gallon over the course of 24 hours so 1/3rd of the full dose to start (mixed in a container with tank water first and then slowly poured into the tank, away from the fish or filter), then 12 hours later, add another 1/3rd dose, then 12 hours later, add the third 1/3rd dose. Leave things at 2 teaspoons per gallon for a week and see how things are doing. If the fish starts to show any signs of distress, do a 25% PWC, as needed to reduce the salt level but most goldfish can tolerate this 0.2% salt level as a treatment. Once again, if you can get antibacterial food (Jungle Brand is even OK for this), feed that as the only diet for a week, along with the salty water treatment and let us know. After the week of salty water treatment, slowly return the water back to freshwater by doing a series of daily 25% PWC's and after five of them, the water will be mostly fresh water again with the remaining salt level being low enough to not be an issue and it will slowly lower each time you do your weekly 25% PWC's. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of silvercat151 Sent: Friday, August 28, 2009 3:21 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: PLEASE help - strange thing on goldfish Please see this http://www.aquariacentral.com/forums/showthread.php?t=204402 which has photos of my fish, and I will be posting photos which I took at Wal-Mart today of other infected fish with visible trailing things. This is new stock since I bought my fish, which was sold to me as having a 'wound' . I stopped using Pimafix some time ago, as this seemed to have cleared.It has since returned. Last night I started using Parasite Clear. If you read my posts on the above thread, you will see the full story and agreement of an experienced person there that this is a case of Anchorworm. Thanks! --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@...> wrote: > > Where did you find this information that says this is the "start of > anchor worm"? > > Anchor worms are visible to the naked eye. Do you see an anchor worm > "anchored" onto the spot or anywhere else on the fish? If not, it > certainly could have been an infected area left over by a previous > anchor worm that was removed, but in that case, it should still be > treated as a secondary infection, not for a parasite. > > See this page for pictures of Anchor Worms. > > http://web.archive.org/web/20051217230513/http://www.fishpalace.org/disease. > html OR > > http://preview.tinyurl.com/2m83ee > > Scroll down about 3/4th's of the page to get to the section about > Anchor Worms to see a few good pictures of these external parasites. > > What are you doing as far as treatment now? I remember you were using > PimaFix which I explained was not the proper medication but you > haven't replied with any other information until now... at least not > that I have seen. > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles > referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically > under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) > > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] > On Behalf Of rebecca may > Sent: Friday, August 28, 2009 10:14 AM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: PLEASE help - strange thing on goldfish > > Actually, after looking round the internet I have identified this as > the start of anchorworm, which this fish and, now I have looked at > other recently stocked fish in the local Wal-Mart where this came > from, seem to have. This was the only fish with it at the time and I > was told by the staff that it was an injury.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 42952	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 8/28/2009
Subject: Re: Are my posts going through?

Only one thing to say. YAHOOOOOOOOOO-OOOOOO! A LONG thing but at least I stuck to my word this time. Ooops.. by adding that follow-up sentence, I broke my word again. Darn! :-P Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Amber Berglund Sent: Friday, August 28, 2009 3:42 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: RE: [AquaticLife] Are my posts going through? Weird I've been posting to the changing water thread with questions and thought I was getting ignored. They show as sent to the group on my end... guess I will repost at lunch. Amber On Aug 28, 2009 10:50 AM, "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@...> wrote: I just looked at the Group's messages section and the last thread I see where you've posted was on 8/25 in your Mystery Snail Eggs thread and then this thread today... so apparently your emails are going off into a Yahoo Black Hole. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in ab... So far no one seems to be offering any advice on my tank issues and whether I'm right or not... I've...

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 42953	From: Margie	Date: 8/28/2009
Subject: Re: Question - Silver Tip Shark

Yes, it is for sure the Columbian Shark..... Sorry And I am not sure on the other two breeds. I just know I asked for fish that do not grow to be very large. And that is what I got. I would the name of the catfish if I saw it again. It did start with a Pl-------- something I am not sure. The Pleco is a common one. Was not aware that the "shark" was of the catfish family, till I looked it up on the Internet. And then I saw his tentacles and realized it what it was The price at Pet's Mart on the catfish were 3.99 each and they are long and silvery to almost clear. The pleco was 2.99. Maybe the price will help you. Other then that I know nothing more. I have not had any problems with my software or my replies or new posts. What is below is not what I rec'd or what I sent. I do not know what happen. It does look a mess doesn't it. Thank you -------Original Message------- From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny Date: 8/28/2009 4:32:18 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Question - Silver Tip Shark ARGGHHH.. you didn't answer any of my questions. Do you know what kind of "2 catfish" that you have or what species of Pleco? Did you look at the pictures of the Columbian Shark to see if that is what you have? Re-read my reply and let me know more answers since I could not give you my answers without knowing the correct information. Is it some kind of software on your computer that causes your replies to lose all formatting? My reply was separated into various paragraphs, etc., and in your reply, it's all one big run-on sentence. Does this happen to you with all of your email replies? Many of us in this group are also computer competent and maybe we can help with this as well. ;-) Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Margie Sent: Friday, August 28, 2009 2:45 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Question - Silver Tip Shark OK, thank you for the info. I will see what I can do to remedy this problem -------Original Message------- From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny Date: 08/28/09 15:36:40 To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Question - Silver Tip Shark I'm answering as I read so bare with me. You certainly CAN NOT add more fish. In all likelihood, you are severely overstocked already. What kind of "2 catfish" do you have? The Pleco is also a catfish... do you know what species it is? As far as the Silver Tip Shark, I did not recognize this common name but I found some references to a "better" common name being Columbian Shark. Look at the pictures associated with this Mongabay profile and let us know if this is what you have. http://fish.mongabay.com/species/Arius_seemani.html If it is, then as you will see, this species of catfish... (so now you're up to four catfish in the tank) ;-)... actually grows to 24", not as large in captivity, likely due to being kept in undersized tanks and suffering from stunting issues. Even for a 15" fast swimming fish like this one, you should have at least a 8' to 10' long tank so your 55G is NOT nearly big enough. Print out the Mongabay profile which recommends a bare minimum of 100-125G of water just for this single fish. Further, this fish is a brackish water (somewhat salty water) fish which makes them even less compatible with your other fish and should be kept in groups, as you know, so really, for someone wanting to keep a shoal of these fish, they should have a 500G+ sized tank... maybe a little smaller if they do frequent PWC's and tank maintenance. As far as I know there are NO real "sharks" that live their lives in fresh water. Most of the fresh water fish that have the word "shark" as part of their name are usually from the catfish family. There are hundreds of catfish species with the smallest growing to only 1" and the largest growing to over 6' (SIX FEET) long so without knowing your species, it's hard to give any suggestions or advice. If your Pleco (also a catfish) is a common pleco, they grow to 18"+ and get too big for your 55G also. There are some dwarf species that stay under 6" but we would need to know what species you have before saying yeah or nay on the pleco... same for the other "2 catfish". You may be able to keep the pleco, if it's a common pleco at least until it grows to around 6" and then you would have to trade him in on a new baby common pleco or switch to a species of algae eater that stays smaller, like a Clown Pleco or Bristle Nose Pleco. Many LFS (local fish stores) will do the trade in thing. Most PetsMarts will not do this. So.. that leaves the 6 Tiger Barbs as the only certain species... hoping that one is right, of course. ;-) Here is the Mongabay profile on Tiger Barbs (Puntius tetrazona)... http://fish.mongabay.com/species/Puntius_tetrazona.html Look at the SC section (Suggested Companions) for the most likely fish to be suitable for being kept with this species. You will also see that these fish grow to around 3" each so these six fish would need at least 18G of your 55G total volume. This leaves you with 37G of water volume for your remaining fish. If you get a dwarf pleco, it would need around 10G of water volume so you would have 27G of water volume left over for addition fish that are mentioned in the SC section above. I'm presuming your other "2 catfish" are not going to be compatible with your tank. Please, in the future, do your own research or ask out here BEFORE buying fish so you can be more assured of getting fish that will work with your tank, water parameters and other fish. Asking after the fact makes life much harder for you and the fish. If you are an impulsive fish buyer, leave your purse and/or wallet in the car and only bring enough money to buy what you need, when you go into the PetsMart or LFS. ;-) Having a plan and working within that plan will bring back that warm and fuzzy fish feeling. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Margie Sent: Friday, August 28, 2009 1:22 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Question - Silver Tip Shark I have a 55 G tank with 6 Tiger Barbs, 2 catfish, 1 Pleco and this Silver Tip Shark. I have read this breed of Shark is not good in a 55 g tank, plus they need more of them, at least 3 in a shoal. They grow very large. This one runs the tank length all day long, he zips across, then up and over again in the same pattern. And that he should be returned to the store Pets Mart says he is ok with what I have. And I know not all at P.Mart know a lot about fish and their habits. But then not everyone giving advice on the 'net knows either. So, Lenny I know you do. So what is right? Is this Shark ok? Plus he looks more like a catfish. Is he in the catfish family? And I have a comment. When I tried having goldies and they were not to be due to parasites that totally wiped them out and now I have gone back to the tropicals. With the goldies I was getting brown algae also. When at Pet Mart's I asked what would get rid of brown algae, would a algae eater do it He said no, I asked if the pleco would, he said no. But I bought a Pleco anyway and guess what he has cleaned all the brown algae away. So they do suck the algae up. HE is a happy little sucker. I do not plan to add to the fish I have unless I need that one more Shark., I would go 2, but not three. Not if they grow that large. Are the fish I have a good balance? I have had tanks for 50 years and never had troubles before like the goldies. And the goldies have made me totally paranoid now and I don't want to feel like that again. I had tanks and never really worried about what I had or if they were ok together. But It seems the more I read the less secure I feel about fish. I want that warm and fuzzy feeling back again. ------------------------------------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the home page. Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com to receive the digest, which includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com for the No E-Mail option where you will still be able to read messages on the group and post replies. Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com to receive individual e-mails Yahoo! Groups Links [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 42954	From: Margie	Date: 8/28/2009
Subject: Re: Question - Silver Tip Shark

It was listed at Pets Mart as Silver Tip and on my receipt, plus it looks more like what is shown on the Internet as the Columbian. -------Original Message------- From: sevenspringss Date: 8/28/2009 4:38:54 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Question - Silver Tip Shark Could just be that this is a "regular plain ole Silver Shark" (not Silver Tip") -- otherwise known as Tri-Color Shark or Bala Shark (Balantiocheilos melanopterus), as would be my best guess. They're a member of the Cyprinid Family as are other freshwater "Sharks," and are related to Barbs, Carps and Goldfish (not catfish). This species gets to 14". Ray --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@...> wrote: > > I'm answering as I read so bare with me. You certainly CAN NOT add more > fish. In all likelihood, you are severely overstocked already. > > What kind of "2 catfish" do you have? The Pleco is also a catfish... do you > know what species it is? > > As far as the Silver Tip Shark, I did not recognize this common name but I > found some references to a "better" common name being Columbian Shark. Look > at the pictures associated with this Mongabay profile and let us know if > this is what you have. > http://fish.mongabay.com/species/Arius_seemani.html > > If it is, then as you will see, this species of catfish... (so now you're up > to four catfish in the tank) ;-)... actually grows to 24", not as large in > captivity, likely due to being kept in undersized tanks and suffering from > stunting issues. Even for a 15" fast swimming fish like this one, you > should have at least a 8' to 10' long tank so your 55G is NOT nearly big > enough. > > Print out the Mongabay profile which recommends a bare minimum of 100-125G > of water just for this single fish. Further, this fish is a brackish water > (somewhat salty water) fish which makes them even less compatible with your > other fish and should be kept in groups, as you know, so really, for someone > wanting to keep a shoal of these fish, they should have a 500G+ sized > tank... maybe a little smaller if they do frequent PWC's and tank > maintenance. > > As far as I know there are NO real "sharks" that live their lives in fresh > water. Most of the fresh water fish that have the word "shark" as part of > their name are usually from the catfish family. > > There are hundreds of catfish species with the smallest growing to only 1" > and the largest growing to over 6' (SIX FEET) long so without knowing your > species, it's hard to give any suggestions or advice. > > If your Pleco (also a catfish) is a common pleco, they grow to 18"+ and get > too big for your 55G also. There are some dwarf species that stay under 6 > but we would need to know what species you have before saying yeah or nay on > the pleco... same for the other "2 catfish". You may be able to keep the > pleco, if it's a common pleco at least until it grows to around 6" and then > you would have to trade him in on a new baby common pleco or switch to a > species of algae eater that stays smaller, like a Clown Pleco or Bristle > Nose Pleco. Many LFS (local fish stores) will do the trade in thing. Most > PetsMarts will not do this. > > So.. that leaves the 6 Tiger Barbs as the only certain species... hoping > that one is right, of course. ;-) > > Here is the Mongabay profile on Tiger Barbs (Puntius tetrazona)... > http://fish.mongabay.com/species/Puntius_tetrazona.html > > Look at the SC section (Suggested Companions) for the most likely fish to be > suitable for being kept with this species. > > You will also see that these fish grow to around 3" each so these six fish > would need at least 18G of your 55G total volume. This leaves you with 37G > of water volume for your remaining fish. If you get a dwarf pleco, it would > need around 10G of water volume so you would have 27G of water volume left > over for addition fish that are mentioned in the SC section above. > > I'm presuming your other "2 catfish" are not going to be compatible with > your tank. > > Please, in the future, do your own research or ask out here BEFORE buying > fish so you can be more assured of getting fish that will work with your > tank, water parameters and other fish. Asking after the fact makes life > much harder for you and the fish. > > If you are an impulsive fish buyer, leave your purse and/or wallet in the > car and only bring enough money to buy what you need, when you go into the > PetsMart or LFS. ;-) > > Having a plan and working within that plan will bring back that warm and > fuzzy fish feeling. > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right > side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) > > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On > Behalf Of Margie > Sent: Friday, August 28, 2009 1:22 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Subject: [AquaticLife] Question - Silver Tip Shark > > I have a 55 G tank with 6 Tiger Barbs, 2 catfish, 1 Pleco and this Silver > Tip Shark. I have read this breed of Shark is not good in a 55 g tank, > plus they need more of them, at least 3 in a shoal. They grow very large. > This one runs the tank length all day long, he zips across, then up and > over again in the same pattern. And that he should be returned to the store > Pets Mart says he is ok with what I have. And I know not all at P.Mart > know a lot about fish and their habits. But then not everyone giving advice > on the 'net knows either. So, Lenny I know you do. So what is right? Is > this Shark ok? Plus he looks more like a catfish. Is he in the catfish > family? And I have a comment. When I tried having goldies and they > were not to be > due to parasites that totally wiped them out and now I have gone back to > the tropicals. With the goldies I was getting brown algae also. When at Pet > Mart's I asked what would get rid of brown algae, would a algae eater do it > He said no, I asked if the pleco would, he said no. But I bought a Pleco > anyway and guess what he has cleaned all the brown algae away. So they do > suck the algae up. HE is a happy little sucker. I do not plan to add to > the fish I have unless I need that one more Shark., > I would go 2, but not three. Not if they grow that large. Are the fish I > have a good balance? I have had tanks for 50 years and > never had troubles before like the goldies. And the goldies have made me > totally paranoid now and I don't want to feel like that again. I had tanks > and never really worried about what I had or if they were ok together. But > It seems the more I read the less secure I feel about fish. I want that > warm and fuzzy feeling back again. > ------------------------------------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the home page. Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com to receive the digest, which includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com for the No E-Mail option where you will still be able to read messages on the group and post replies. Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com to receive individual e-mails Yahoo! Groups Links [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 42955	From: sevenspringss	Date: 8/28/2009
Subject: Re: How to treat my betta's disappearing tail fin

AND, this couldn't be a case of Fin & Tail Rot? Is the fin there or not? If the tail waas mangled, it would still all be there -- but MANGLED. If any of the fin was broken off when you dropped him, you would see the remnants of the fin left behind when you picked him up. A Betta is not a regular tropical fish? What do you define as a "regular" tropical fish? I'm guessing you may say, one that doesn't also breathe air (???). If so, this should not preclude the use of antibiotics with Bettas. Melafix is a fairly mild antibiotic, which usually doesn't address aggressive bacterial diseases. If this is getting worse and worse, i.e., if he is progressively losing more and more tail fin over time, it sure sounds like Fin & Tail rot, in which case (if it is), I would suggest using a good primarily gram-negative antibiotic such as Furan II. Before treating though, do you see any growth of the damaged/missing fin at all? If so, it just may need more time (and no further dropping). BTW, Bettas do not like too much salt. I can't say I agree with your 100% water changes; this may be promoting the problem, although I don't know your water well enough to say how fish would take such a change of it -- some water sources are perfectly suited for changing 100% of it, even regularly, but they're rare. Ray --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Dora Smith" <tiggernut24@...> wrote: > > My betta has the Case of the Disappearing Tail Fin. I don't know what's > causing it; don't know if maybe he mangled it when he got dropped during > water changes a couple of times. Not, betta wants to be picked up and put > back in teh water, NOOOOO. I've tried six drops of melafix to a gallon of > water, and one tsp salt per gallon. Not working. > > Betta otherwise seems fine - swimming around, appetite is fine, eats almost > anything. Ocean nutrition betta pellets, Ocean nutrition formula one > flakes, mosquito larvae from the algae rock farm, spectrum small fish > pellets, and a little piece of cooked salmon. > > Betta is in a two gallon container with 1.5 gallons of water that gets > changed completely every day - I couldn't come up with a satisfactory way to > get the poop out of the gravel with my siphon. > > I want to use antibiotic, but the instructions are all for regular tropical > fish, not for bettas. > > What and specifically what dose do you recommend? > > Yours, > Dora Smith > Austin, TX > tiggernut24@... > > > > Yours, > Dora Smith > Austin, TX > tiggernut24@... >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 42956	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 8/28/2009
Subject: Re: Question - Silver Tip Shark

Well, something in your computer, security software or something is changing the formatting of your emails and removing Paragraph separators, line breaks, inserting line breaks, etc.. Do you use webmail at the ATT.net website or do you use Outlook, Outlook Express, Thunderbird, etc., to read and reply to your email? There are some settings in these various website and software that can affect some things but not usually to the degree that yours is doing right now. Maybe \\Steve// will chime in if he's seen this before. I've seen lots of weird formatting issues in email but never this one. I am also sending you a copy of this email off-list and attaching a copy of a Print-Screen from my end so you can see how even the email you just sent is all garbled looking, with sentences ending in the middle of a line and then restarting on the next line. This is only happening to emails that I am receiving from you through the group so I'm not sure what is causing it. Anyhow... back to the fish... Always, ALWAYS, when interested in a certain fish, write down the common name, the scientific name, if available, a description of the fish and what ever info the store has about the fish as far as tank size, fish size, etc.... maybe even take a picture of the fish. Then come out here and post the info and picture and you will get more appropriate advice from people that are not trying to sell you something... just honest, unbiased information. If there is only one fish left that you want, put a deposit down and have them hold it for you... then come do your research and if they have the fish mislabeled or have inaccurate info about tank or fish size, then they would have to give you back your money... or at the very least, a full store credit... or use the squeaky wheel method until they do. I recently had to raise 40 kinds of hell.. heck, maybe 50 kinds of hell inside of my local Sprint Store to get them to remove an overcharge from my phone bill. After 10 minutes of raising hell and after they asked me to leave the store and I refused until I got to speak to the manager, I was quickly taken care of and the over charge was removed. Of course, I only had to do this because the AR person on the phone was too incompetent to do it over the phone. (AR = Anal Retentive. LOL) After it was all over, I chuckled and told them it would have been a lot simpler to us all if they would have just did the right thing in the first place. The manager agreed... although in the back of his head, he was probably calling me a lot worse than a squeaky wheel or an AR customer. LOL Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Margie Sent: Friday, August 28, 2009 3:48 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Question - Silver Tip Shark Yes, it is for sure the Columbian Shark..... Sorry And I am not sure on the other two breeds. I just know I asked for fish that do not grow to be very large. And that is what I got. I would the name of the catfish if I saw it again. It did start with a Pl-------- something I am not sure. The Pleco is a common one. Was not aware that the "shark" was of the catfish family, till I looked it up on the Internet. And then I saw his tentacles and realized it what it was The price at Pet's Mart on the catfish were 3.99 each and they are long and silvery to almost clear. The pleco was 2.99. Maybe the price will help you. Other then that I know nothing more. I have not had any problems with my software or my replies or new posts. What is below is not what I rec'd or what I sent. I do not know what happen. It does look a mess doesn't it. Thank you -------Original Message------- From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny Date: 8/28/2009 4:32:18 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Question - Silver Tip Shark ARGGHHH.. you didn't answer any of my questions. Do you know what kind of "2 catfish" that you have or what species of Pleco? Did you look at the pictures of the Columbian Shark to see if that is what you have? Re-read my reply and let me know more answers since I could not give you my answers without knowing the correct information. Is it some kind of software on your computer that causes your replies to lose all formatting? My reply was separated into various paragraphs, etc., and in your reply, it's all one big run-on sentence. Does this happen to you with all of your email replies? Many of us in this group are also computer competent and maybe we can help with this as well. ;-) Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Margie Sent: Friday, August 28, 2009 2:45 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Question - Silver Tip Shark OK, thank you for the info. I will see what I can do to remedy this problem -------Original Message------- From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny Date: 08/28/09 15:36:40 To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Question - Silver Tip Shark I'm answering as I read so bare with me. You certainly CAN NOT add more fish. In all likelihood, you are severely overstocked already. What kind of "2 catfish" do you have? The Pleco is also a catfish... do you know what species it is? As far as the Silver Tip Shark, I did not recognize this common name but I found some references to a "better" common name being Columbian Shark. Look at the pictures associated with this Mongabay profile and let us know if this is what you have. http://fish.mongabay.com/species/Arius_seemani.html If it is, then as you will see, this species of catfish... (so now you're up to four catfish in the tank) ;-)... actually grows to 24", not as large in captivity, likely due to being kept in undersized tanks and suffering from stunting issues. Even for a 15" fast swimming fish like this one, you should have at least a 8' to 10' long tank so your 55G is NOT nearly big enough. Print out the Mongabay profile which recommends a bare minimum of 100-125G of water just for this single fish. Further, this fish is a brackish water (somewhat salty water) fish which makes them even less compatible with your other fish and should be kept in groups, as you know, so really, for someone wanting to keep a shoal of these fish, they should have a 500G+ sized tank... maybe a little smaller if they do frequent PWC's and tank maintenance. As far as I know there are NO real "sharks" that live their lives in fresh water. Most of the fresh water fish that have the word "shark" as part of their name are usually from the catfish family. There are hundreds of catfish species with the smallest growing to only 1" and the largest growing to over 6' (SIX FEET) long so without knowing your species, it's hard to give any suggestions or advice. If your Pleco (also a catfish) is a common pleco, they grow to 18"+ and get too big for your 55G also. There are some dwarf species that stay under 6" but we would need to know what species you have before saying yeah or nay on the pleco... same for the other "2 catfish". You may be able to keep the pleco, if it's a common pleco at least until it grows to around 6" and then you would have to trade him in on a new baby common pleco or switch to a species of algae eater that stays smaller, like a Clown Pleco or Bristle Nose Pleco. Many LFS (local fish stores) will do the trade in thing. Most PetsMarts will not do this. So.. that leaves the 6 Tiger Barbs as the only certain species... hoping that one is right, of course. ;-) Here is the Mongabay profile on Tiger Barbs (Puntius tetrazona)... http://fish.mongabay.com/species/Puntius_tetrazona.html Look at the SC section (Suggested Companions) for the most likely fish to be suitable for being kept with this species. You will also see that these fish grow to around 3" each so these six fish would need at least 18G of your 55G total volume. This leaves you with 37G of water volume for your remaining fish. If you get a dwarf pleco, it would need around 10G of water volume so you would have 27G of water volume left over for addition fish that are mentioned in the SC section above. I'm presuming your other "2 catfish" are not going to be compatible with your tank. Please, in the future, do your own research or ask out here BEFORE buying fish so you can be more assured of getting fish that will work with your tank, water parameters and other fish. Asking after the fact makes life much harder for you and the fish. If you are an impulsive fish buyer, leave your purse and/or wallet in the car and only bring enough money to buy what you need, when you go into the PetsMart or LFS. ;-) Having a plan and working within that plan will bring back that warm and fuzzy fish feeling. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Margie Sent: Friday, August 28, 2009 1:22 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Question - Silver Tip Shark I have a 55 G tank with 6 Tiger Barbs, 2 catfish, 1 Pleco and this Silver Tip Shark. I have read this breed of Shark is not good in a 55 g tank, plus they need more of them, at least 3 in a shoal. They grow very large. This one runs the tank length all day long, he zips across, then up and over again in the same pattern. And that he should be returned to the store Pets Mart says he is ok with what I have. And I know not all at P.Mart know a lot about fish and their habits. But then not everyone giving advice on the 'net knows either. So, Lenny I know you do. So what is right? Is this Shark ok? Plus he looks more like a catfish. Is he in the catfish family? And I have a comment. When I tried having goldies and they were not to be due to parasites that totally wiped them out and now I have gone back to the tropicals. With the goldies I was getting brown algae also. When at Pet Mart's I asked what would get rid of brown algae, would a algae eater do it He said no, I asked if the pleco would, he said no. But I bought a Pleco anyway and guess what he has cleaned all the brown algae away. So they do suck the algae up. HE is a happy little sucker. I do not plan to add to the fish I have unless I need that one more Shark., I would go 2, but not three. Not if they grow that large. Are the fish I have a good balance? I have had tanks for 50 years and never had troubles before like the goldies. And the goldies have made me totally paranoid now and I don't want to feel like that again. I had tanks and never really worried about what I had or if they were ok together. But It seems the more I read the less secure I feel about fish. I want that warm and fuzzy feeling back again. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 42957	From: sevenspringss	Date: 8/28/2009
Subject: Re: Question - Silver Tip Shark

May I presume then, that your fish has long "whiskers" (barbels) -- one pair on the upper lip and two pair on the lower? I hadn't seen any mention of this feature here, which would be the first thing that would noticably separate it from most other fish. If so, then this is a catfish (Jordan's Catfish); it can grow to 20" in the aquarium, if the tank is large enough. Be careful when you handle him, as his dorsal spines are toxic. This fish really doesn't belong in a freshwater tank, as it's a brackish water fish. Ray --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Margie" <MargiePhelps@...> wrote: > > It was listed at Pets Mart as Silver Tip and on my receipt, plus it looks > more like what is shown on the Internet as the Columbian. > > -------Original Message------- > > From: sevenspringss > Date: 8/28/2009 4:38:54 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Question - Silver Tip Shark > > Could just be that this is a "regular plain ole Silver Shark" (not Silver > Tip") -- otherwise known as Tri-Color Shark or Bala Shark (Balantiocheilos > melanopterus), as would be my best guess. They're a member of the Cyprinid > Family as are other freshwater "Sharks," and are related to Barbs, Carps and > Goldfish (not catfish). This species gets to 14". Ray > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@> > wrote: > > > > I'm answering as I read so bare with me. You certainly CAN NOT add more > > fish. In all likelihood, you are severely overstocked already. > > > > What kind of "2 catfish" do you have? The Pleco is also a catfish... do > you > > know what species it is? > > > > As far as the Silver Tip Shark, I did not recognize this common name but I > > found some references to a "better" common name being Columbian Shark. > Look > > at the pictures associated with this Mongabay profile and let us know if > > this is what you have. > > http://fish.mongabay.com/species/Arius_seemani.html > > > > If it is, then as you will see, this species of catfish... (so now you're > up > > to four catfish in the tank) ;-)... actually grows to 24", not as large in > > captivity, likely due to being kept in undersized tanks and suffering from > > stunting issues. Even for a 15" fast swimming fish like this one, you > > should have at least a 8' to 10' long tank so your 55G is NOT nearly big > > enough. > > > > Print out the Mongabay profile which recommends a bare minimum of 100-125G > > of water just for this single fish. Further, this fish is a brackish > water > > (somewhat salty water) fish which makes them even less compatible with > your > > other fish and should be kept in groups, as you know, so really, for > someone > > wanting to keep a shoal of these fish, they should have a 500G+ sized > > tank... maybe a little smaller if they do frequent PWC's and tank > > maintenance. > > > > As far as I know there are NO real "sharks" that live their lives in fresh > > water. Most of the fresh water fish that have the word "shark" as part of > > their name are usually from the catfish family. > > > > There are hundreds of catfish species with the smallest growing to only 1" > > and the largest growing to over 6' (SIX FEET) long so without knowing your > > species, it's hard to give any suggestions or advice. > > > > If your Pleco (also a catfish) is a common pleco, they grow to 18"+ and > get > > too big for your 55G also. There are some dwarf species that stay under 6 > > > but we would need to know what species you have before saying yeah or nay > on > > the pleco... same for the other "2 catfish". You may be able to keep the > > pleco, if it's a common pleco at least until it grows to around 6" and > then > > you would have to trade him in on a new baby common pleco or switch to a > > species of algae eater that stays smaller, like a Clown Pleco or Bristle > > Nose Pleco. Many LFS (local fish stores) will do the trade in thing. > Most > > PetsMarts will not do this. > > > > So.. that leaves the 6 Tiger Barbs as the only certain species... hoping > > that one is right, of course. ;-) > > > > Here is the Mongabay profile on Tiger Barbs (Puntius tetrazona)... > > http://fish.mongabay.com/species/Puntius_tetrazona.html > > > > Look at the SC section (Suggested Companions) for the most likely fish to > be > > suitable for being kept with this species. > > > > You will also see that these fish grow to around 3" each so these six fish > > would need at least 18G of your 55G total volume. This leaves you with > 37G > > of water volume for your remaining fish. If you get a dwarf pleco, it > would > > need around 10G of water volume so you would have 27G of water volume left > > over for addition fish that are mentioned in the SC section above. > > > > I'm presuming your other "2 catfish" are not going to be compatible with > > your tank. > > > > Please, in the future, do your own research or ask out here BEFORE buying > > fish so you can be more assured of getting fish that will work with your > > tank, water parameters and other fish. Asking after the fact makes life > > much harder for you and the fish. > > > > If you are an impulsive fish buyer, leave your purse and/or wallet in the > > car and only bring enough money to buy what you need, when you go into the > > PetsMart or LFS. ;-) > > > > Having a plan and working within that plan will bring back that warm and > > fuzzy fish feeling. > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > > (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right > > side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On > > Behalf Of Margie > > Sent: Friday, August 28, 2009 1:22 PM > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > Subject: [AquaticLife] Question - Silver Tip Shark > > > > I have a 55 G tank with 6 Tiger Barbs, 2 catfish, 1 Pleco and this Silver > > Tip Shark. I have read this breed of Shark is not good in a 55 g tank, > > plus they need more of them, at least 3 in a shoal. They grow very large. > > This one runs the tank length all day long, he zips across, then up and > > over again in the same pattern. And that he should be returned to the > store > > Pets Mart says he is ok with what I have. And I know not all at P.Mart > > know a lot about fish and their habits. But then not everyone giving > advice > > on the 'net knows either. So, Lenny I know you do. So what is right? Is > > this Shark ok? Plus he looks more like a catfish. Is he in the catfish > > family? And I have a comment. When I tried having goldies and they > > were not to be > > due to parasites that totally wiped them out and now I have gone back to > > the tropicals. With the goldies I was getting brown algae also. When at > Pet > > Mart's I asked what would get rid of brown algae, would a algae eater do > it > > He said no, I asked if the pleco would, he said no. But I bought a > Pleco > > anyway and guess what he has cleaned all the brown algae away. So they do > > suck the algae up. HE is a happy little sucker. I do not plan to add > to > > the fish I have unless I need that one more Shark., > > I would go 2, but not three. Not if they grow that large. Are the fish > I > > have a good balance? I have had tanks for 50 years and > > never had troubles before like the goldies. And the goldies have made me > > totally paranoid now and I don't want to feel like that again. I had > tanks > > and never really worried about what I had or if they were ok together. > But > > It seems the more I read the less secure I feel about fish. I want that > > warm and fuzzy feeling back again. > > > > > > > ------------------------------------ > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. > ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> > PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to > the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT > LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- > <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. > > If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of unsubscribing, you > can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the > home page. > > Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com to receive the digest, which > includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email > > Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com for the No E-Mail option where > you will still be able to read messages on the group and post replies. > > Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com to receive individual e-mails > Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 42958	From: Margie	Date: 8/28/2009
Subject: Re: Question - Silver Tip Shark

He has two long "whiskers" and some very tiny/short whiskers also, plus has silver tips on all his fins. And looks like the Silver Tip Shark and/or the Columbian shark on the 'net. He has a very white flat belly. -------Original Message------- From: sevenspringss Date: 8/28/2009 5:26:20 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Question - Silver Tip Shark May I presume then, that your fish has long "whiskers" (barbels) -- one pair on the upper lip and two pair on the lower? I hadn't seen any mention of this feature here, which would be the first thing that would noticably separate it from most other fish. If so, then this is a catfish (Jordan's Catfish); it can grow to 20" in the aquarium, if the tank is large enough. Be careful when you handle him, as his dorsal spines are toxic. This fish really doesn't belong in a freshwater tank, as it's a brackish water fish. Ray , [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 42959	From: moiragrubb2000	Date: 8/28/2009
Subject: Re: oscar ill

--- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Steve Szabo" <steve@...> wrote: >one of my posts appears to have dissapeared so just to fill in the gaps my nitrate reading is 20 I clean filters weekly alternating each one gravel clean 20 to 25 per cent at least once a week. Intend to up this if I was doing 2 to 3 a week how much water would I take out i have never had any water issues with this tank and dont want to upset the balance by taking out to much water. My problem at the moment is as my oscar is not eating i cant get him to take veggies i did try him today, is there anything i can put in the tank i really think it has got aomething to do with the freeze dried food as i have just introduced it lately the problem was that he was preferring that to his usual food how often should you feed freeze dried foods. Im very gratefull of all the replys sorry my posts are a bit disjointed but new to this thanks again appreciate any more advice mo > Mo, > > Try to feed him some vegetables. If you have not been soaking the freeze dried stuff before feeding, he may have a blockage, and vegetables will help him clear it out. > > \\Steve// > > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of moira grubb > Sent: Thursday, August 27, 2009 5:32 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] oscar ill > > cheers bill the first thing i did was a water change and have been trying him with different foods chicken prawns etc never tried earthworms so i will try that next he is in a 5 foot tank i do regular water changes and filter maintenance when i was watching him earlier it looked like he had a sort of twitching of his head a kind of jerking although he might just be trying to tell me to stop staring at him lol i do actually feed him quite a varied diet but only introduced the freeze dried stuff about 7 wks ago which he loved was just worried this might have caused a problem  is there any medication you could suggest he is definately under the weather and not his usual self thanks again mo > > --- On Thu, 27/8/09, bill 1433 <warrenprint@...> wrote: > > From: bill 1433 <warrenprint@...> > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] oscar ill > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Date: Thursday, 27 August, 2009, 10:01 PM > > Hi Mo! > > My name is Bill and a few thousand years ago (just kidding, but along time) I raised Oscars.  Many people are of the firm belief that Oscars are real pigs and will eat darn near anything.  While that may be true to a certain extent, they do like a change of menu from time to time and the same diet without any variation at all is not good for any fish including the Discus! > > While we are talking about the front door, lets go around the back door for a moment.  The fishes "bodily functions" are all in proper working order, I would assume? > > Now for Oscars house?  Does he has a large enough tank with plenty of room?  One Oscar= 1 55 gallon tank at least, a 100 would be better if tank mates are present. > > Next, how about your water changes and general upkeep of the tank?  Try a 25% water change first as well as a change in diet.  Have you ever fed him small, good old fashioned earthworms?  Oscars love them.  To an Oscar, space is the big thing.  What is the size of the tank, not just gallons but physical size?  A standard 55 at 4 feet long is fine for 1 Oscar but with tankmates?  A 5 footer that is about 18 inches wide to allow him room to swim and turn around would be better and a 6 foot job at a 125 gallons would be the best. > > Bill > > > > --- On Thu, 8/27/09, moiragrubb2000 <moiragrubb2000@ yahoo.co. uk> wrote: > > > > From: moiragrubb2000 <moiragrubb2000@ yahoo.co. uk> > Subject: [AquaticLife] oscar ill > To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com > Date: Thursday, August 27, 2009, 4:25 PM > > hi i have been a member of this group for a while and find it interesting and informative just reading the e mails this is the first time ive had to ask for help i have an oscar  he is in an established tank had him about 4 years he is about 6 yrs old. this last few days he is not eating usually comes up to hand feed all water paramaters fine and cant see anything physically wrong but he definately not his usual self he shares his tank with 2 red sharks and a pleco all been in tank 4 yrs other fish fine only thing thats changed is i have been feeding him freeze dried river shrimp and krill since he has took a liking to it along with frozen blood worm and cichlid pellets not all at once obviously could it have anything to do with freeze dried food would appreciate any feedback ,suggestions on what i csn try as completely at a loss have put in some paragon oxygen tonic at the moment tonight he did make an effort to pick up some gravel and throw it at his > > tank mates but not interested in eating, any help would be appreciated, thanks, mo >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 42960	From: Margie	Date: 8/28/2009
Subject: Lenny

This e-mails looks ok to me on this end. -------Original Message------- From: sevenspringss Date: 8/28/2009 5:26:20 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Question - Silver Tip Shark May I presume then, that your fish has long "whiskers" (barbels) -- one pair on the upper lip and two pair on the lower? I hadn't seen any mention of this feature here, which would be the first thing that would noticably separate it from most other fish. If so, then this is a catfish (Jordan's Catfish); it can grow to 20" in the aquarium, if the tank is large enough. Be careful when you handle him, as his dorsal spines are toxic. This fish really doesn't belong in a freshwater tank, as it's a brackish water fish. Ray --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Margie" <MargiePhelps@...> wrote: > > It was listed at Pets Mart as Silver Tip and on my receipt, plus it looks > more like what is shown on the Internet as the Columbian. > > -------Original Message------- > > From: sevenspringss > Date: 8/28/2009 4:38:54 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Question - Silver Tip Shark > > Could just be that this is a "regular plain ole Silver Shark" (not Silver > Tip") -- otherwise known as Tri-Color Shark or Bala Shark (Balantiocheilos > melanopterus), as would be my best guess. They're a member of the Cyprinid > Family as are other freshwater "Sharks," and are related to Barbs, Carps and > Goldfish (not catfish). This species gets to 14". Ray > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@> > wrote: > > > > I'm answering as I read so bare with me. You certainly CAN NOT add more > > fish. In all likelihood, you are severely overstocked already. > > > > What kind of "2 catfish" do you have? The Pleco is also a catfish... do > you > > know what species it is? > > > > As far as the Silver Tip Shark, I did not recognize this common name but I > > found some references to a "better" common name being Columbian Shark. > Look > > at the pictures associated with this Mongabay profile and let us know if > > this is what you have. > > http://fish.mongabay.com/species/Arius_seemani.html > > > > If it is, then as you will see, this species of catfish... (so now you re > up > > to four catfish in the tank) ;-)... actually grows to 24", not as large in > > captivity, likely due to being kept in undersized tanks and suffering from > > stunting issues. Even for a 15" fast swimming fish like this one, you > > should have at least a 8' to 10' long tank so your 55G is NOT nearly big > > enough. > > > > Print out the Mongabay profile which recommends a bare minimum of 100-125G > > of water just for this single fish. Further, this fish is a brackish > water > > (somewhat salty water) fish which makes them even less compatible with > your > > other fish and should be kept in groups, as you know, so really, for > someone > > wanting to keep a shoal of these fish, they should have a 500G+ sized > > tank... maybe a little smaller if they do frequent PWC's and tank > > maintenance. > > > > As far as I know there are NO real "sharks" that live their lives in fresh > > water. Most of the fresh water fish that have the word "shark" as part of > > their name are usually from the catfish family. > > > > There are hundreds of catfish species with the smallest growing to only 1" > > and the largest growing to over 6' (SIX FEET) long so without knowing your > > species, it's hard to give any suggestions or advice. > > > > If your Pleco (also a catfish) is a common pleco, they grow to 18"+ and > get > > too big for your 55G also. There are some dwarf species that stay under 6 > > > but we would need to know what species you have before saying yeah or nay > on > > the pleco... same for the other "2 catfish". You may be able to keep the > > pleco, if it's a common pleco at least until it grows to around 6" and > then > > you would have to trade him in on a new baby common pleco or switch to a > > species of algae eater that stays smaller, like a Clown Pleco or Bristle > > Nose Pleco. Many LFS (local fish stores) will do the trade in thing. > Most > > PetsMarts will not do this. > > > > So.. that leaves the 6 Tiger Barbs as the only certain species... hoping > > that one is right, of course. ;-) > > > > Here is the Mongabay profile on Tiger Barbs (Puntius tetrazona)... > > http://fish.mongabay.com/species/Puntius_tetrazona.html > > > > Look at the SC section (Suggested Companions) for the most likely fish to > be > > suitable for being kept with this species. > > > > You will also see that these fish grow to around 3" each so these six fish > > would need at least 18G of your 55G total volume. This leaves you with > 37G > > of water volume for your remaining fish. If you get a dwarf pleco, it > would > > need around 10G of water volume so you would have 27G of water volume left > > over for addition fish that are mentioned in the SC section above. > > > > I'm presuming your other "2 catfish" are not going to be compatible with > > your tank. > > > > Please, in the future, do your own research or ask out here BEFORE buying > > fish so you can be more assured of getting fish that will work with your > > tank, water parameters and other fish. Asking after the fact makes life > > much harder for you and the fish. > > > > If you are an impulsive fish buyer, leave your purse and/or wallet in the > > car and only bring enough money to buy what you need, when you go into the > > PetsMart or LFS. ;-) > > > > Having a plan and working within that plan will bring back that warm and > > fuzzy fish feeling. > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > > (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right > > side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On > > Behalf Of Margie > > Sent: Friday, August 28, 2009 1:22 PM > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > Subject: [AquaticLife] Question - Silver Tip Shark > > > > I have a 55 G tank with 6 Tiger Barbs, 2 catfish, 1 Pleco and this Silver > > Tip Shark. I have read this breed of Shark is not good in a 55 g tank > > plus they need more of them, at least 3 in a shoal. They grow very large > > This one runs the tank length all day long, he zips across, then up and > > over again in the same pattern. And that he should be returned to the > store > > Pets Mart says he is ok with what I have. And I know not all at P Mart > > know a lot about fish and their habits. But then not everyone giving > advice > > on the 'net knows either. So, Lenny I know you do. So what is right? Is > > this Shark ok? Plus he looks more like a catfish. Is he in the catfish > > family? And I have a comment. When I tried having goldies and they > > were not to be > > due to parasites that totally wiped them out and now I have gone back to > > the tropicals. With the goldies I was getting brown algae also. When at > Pet > > Mart's I asked what would get rid of brown algae, would a algae eater do > it > > He said no, I asked if the pleco would, he said no. But I bought a > Pleco > > anyway and guess what he has cleaned all the brown algae away. So they do > > suck the algae up. HE is a happy little sucker. I do not plan to add > to > > the fish I have unless I need that one more Shark., > > I would go 2, but not three. Not if they grow that large. Are the fish > I > > have a good balance? I have had tanks for 50 years and > > never had troubles before like the goldies. And the goldies have made me > > totally paranoid now and I don't want to feel like that again. I had > tanks > > and never really worried about what I had or if they were ok together. > But > > It seems the more I read the less secure I feel about fish. I want that > > warm and fuzzy feeling back again. > > > > > > > ------------------------------------ > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. > ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> > PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to > the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT > LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- > <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. > > If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of unsubscribing, you > can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the > home page. > > Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com to receive the digest, which > includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email > > Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com for the No E-Mail option where > you will still be able to read messages on the group and post replies. > > Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com to receive individual e-mails > Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > ------------------------------------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the home page. Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com to receive the digest, which includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com for the No E-Mail option where you will still be able to read messages on the group and post replies. Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com to receive individual e-mails Yahoo! Groups Links [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 42961	From: sevenspringss	Date: 8/28/2009
Subject: Re: Lenny

I would HOPE it looks okay. I don't see anything wrong with it <G>. Ray --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Margie" <MargiePhelps@...> wrote: > > This e-mails looks ok to me on this end. > > -------Original Message------- > > From: sevenspringss > Date: 8/28/2009 5:26:20 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Question - Silver Tip Shark > > May I presume then, that your fish has long "whiskers" (barbels) -- one pair > on the upper lip and two pair on the lower? I hadn't seen any mention of > this feature here, which would be the first thing that would noticably > separate it from most other fish. If so, then this is a catfish (Jordan's > Catfish); it can grow to 20" in the aquarium, if the tank is large enough. > Be careful when you handle him, as his dorsal spines are toxic. This fish > really doesn't belong in a freshwater tank, as it's a brackish water fish. > Ray > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Margie" <MargiePhelps@> wrote: > > > > It was listed at Pets Mart as Silver Tip and on my receipt, plus it looks > > more like what is shown on the Internet as the Columbian. > > > > -------Original Message------- > > > > From: sevenspringss > > Date: 8/28/2009 4:38:54 PM > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Question - Silver Tip Shark > > > > Could just be that this is a "regular plain ole Silver Shark" (not Silver > > Tip") -- otherwise known as Tri-Color Shark or Bala Shark (Balantiocheilos > > melanopterus), as would be my best guess. They're a member of the > Cyprinid > > Family as are other freshwater "Sharks," and are related to Barbs, Carps > and > > Goldfish (not catfish). This species gets to 14". Ray > > > > > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@> > > wrote: > > > > > > I'm answering as I read so bare with me. You certainly CAN NOT add more > > > fish. In all likelihood, you are severely overstocked already. > > > > > > What kind of "2 catfish" do you have? The Pleco is also a catfish... do > > you > > > know what species it is? > > > > > > As far as the Silver Tip Shark, I did not recognize this common name but > I > > > found some references to a "better" common name being Columbian Shark. > > Look > > > at the pictures associated with this Mongabay profile and let us know if > > > this is what you have. > > > http://fish.mongabay.com/species/Arius_seemani.html > > > > > > If it is, then as you will see, this species of catfish... (so now you > re > > up > > > to four catfish in the tank) ;-)... actually grows to 24", not as large > in > > > captivity, likely due to being kept in undersized tanks and suffering > from > > > stunting issues. Even for a 15" fast swimming fish like this one, you > > > should have at least a 8' to 10' long tank so your 55G is NOT nearly big > > > enough. > > > > > > Print out the Mongabay profile which recommends a bare minimum of > 100-125G > > > of water just for this single fish. Further, this fish is a brackish > > water > > > (somewhat salty water) fish which makes them even less compatible with > > your > > > other fish and should be kept in groups, as you know, so really, for > > someone > > > wanting to keep a shoal of these fish, they should have a 500G+ sized > > > tank... maybe a little smaller if they do frequent PWC's and tank > > > maintenance. > > > > > > As far as I know there are NO real "sharks" that live their lives in > fresh > > > water. Most of the fresh water fish that have the word "shark" as part > of > > > their name are usually from the catfish family. > > > > > > There are hundreds of catfish species with the smallest growing to only > 1" > > > and the largest growing to over 6' (SIX FEET) long so without knowing > your > > > species, it's hard to give any suggestions or advice. > > > > > > If your Pleco (also a catfish) is a common pleco, they grow to 18"+ and > > get > > > too big for your 55G also. There are some dwarf species that stay under > 6 > > > > > but we would need to know what species you have before saying yeah or > nay > > on > > > the pleco... same for the other "2 catfish". You may be able to keep > the > > > pleco, if it's a common pleco at least until it grows to around 6" and > > then > > > you would have to trade him in on a new baby common pleco or switch to a > > > species of algae eater that stays smaller, like a Clown Pleco or Bristle > > > Nose Pleco. Many LFS (local fish stores) will do the trade in thing. > > Most > > > PetsMarts will not do this. > > > > > > So.. that leaves the 6 Tiger Barbs as the only certain species... hoping > > > that one is right, of course. ;-) > > > > > > Here is the Mongabay profile on Tiger Barbs (Puntius tetrazona)... > > > http://fish.mongabay.com/species/Puntius_tetrazona.html > > > > > > Look at the SC section (Suggested Companions) for the most likely fish > to > > be > > > suitable for being kept with this species. > > > > > > You will also see that these fish grow to around 3" each so these six > fish > > > would need at least 18G of your 55G total volume. This leaves you with > > 37G > > > of water volume for your remaining fish. If you get a dwarf pleco, it > > would > > > need around 10G of water volume so you would have 27G of water volume > left > > > over for addition fish that are mentioned in the SC section above. > > > > > > I'm presuming your other "2 catfish" are not going to be compatible with > > > your tank. > > > > > > Please, in the future, do your own research or ask out here BEFORE > buying > > > fish so you can be more assured of getting fish that will work with your > > > tank, water parameters and other fish. Asking after the fact makes life > > > much harder for you and the fish. > > > > > > If you are an impulsive fish buyer, leave your purse and/or wallet in > the > > > car and only bring enough money to buy what you need, when you go into > the > > > PetsMart or LFS. ;-) > > > > > > Having a plan and working within that plan will bring back that warm and > > > fuzzy fish feeling. > > > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > > > (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right > > > side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, > Month) > > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] > On > > > Behalf Of Margie > > > Sent: Friday, August 28, 2009 1:22 PM > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > > Subject: [AquaticLife] Question - Silver Tip Shark > > > > > > I have a 55 G tank with 6 Tiger Barbs, 2 catfish, 1 Pleco and this > Silver > > > Tip Shark. I have read this breed of Shark is not good in a 55 g tank > > > > plus they need more of them, at least 3 in a shoal. They grow very large > > > > This one runs the tank length all day long, he zips across, then up and > > > over again in the same pattern. And that he should be returned to the > > store > > > Pets Mart says he is ok with what I have. And I know not all at P > Mart > > > know a lot about fish and their habits. But then not everyone giving > > advice > > > on the 'net knows either. So, Lenny I know you do. So what is right? > Is > > > this Shark ok? Plus he looks more like a catfish. Is he in the catfish > > > family? And I have a comment. When I tried having goldies and they > > > were not to be > > > due to parasites that totally wiped them out and now I have gone back > to > > > the tropicals. With the goldies I was getting brown algae also. When at > > Pet > > > Mart's I asked what would get rid of brown algae, would a algae eater > do > > it > > > He said no, I asked if the pleco would, he said no. But I bought a > > Pleco > > > anyway and guess what he has cleaned all the brown algae away. So they > do > > > suck the algae up. HE is a happy little sucker. I do not plan to add > > to > > > the fish I have unless I need that one more Shark., > > > I would go 2, but not three. Not if they grow that large. Are the > fish > > I > > > have a good balance? I have had tanks for 50 years and > > > never had troubles before like the goldies. And the goldies have made me > > > totally paranoid now and I don't want to feel like that again. I had > > tanks > > > and never really worried about what I had or if they were ok together. > > But > > > It seems the more I read the less secure I feel about fish. I want > that > > > warm and fuzzy feeling back again. > > > > > > > > > > > > > ------------------------------------ > > > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. > > ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> > > PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to > > the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the > SUBJECT > > LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- > > <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. > > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. > > > > If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of unsubscribing, you > > can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the > > home page. > > > > Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com to receive the digest, which > > includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email > > > > Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com for the No E-Mail option where > > you will still be able to read messages on the group and post replies. > > > > Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com to receive individual e-mails > > Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > > > > ------------------------------------ > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. > ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> > PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to > the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT > LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- > <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. > > If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of unsubscribing, you > can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the > home page. > > Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com to receive the digest, which > includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email > > Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com for the No E-Mail option where > you will still be able to read messages on the group and post replies. > > Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com to receive individual e-mails > Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 42962	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 8/28/2009
Subject: Re: Are my posts going through?

Okay, well here was my most recent post, sent last night. pH: 6, not sure how that happened, perhaps all the water changes? Ammonia: Nearly 1 ppm Nitrite: 0 Nitrate: 0 KH: 1dh at most GH: 4 dh... perhaps it's time to add crushed coral again, I had some in the soil but it doesn't seem to be breaking down like the instructions say it will on the walstad info sites I've read... I think my tank is cycling again for sure, the filter issues must have killed off my bacteria. At least with my lower pH the ammonia isn't so toxic, but the snails and shrimp don't like the lower pH I think... they act different, way different. Now any suggestions? I'm going to do a filter cleaning to get rid of the build up and add the crushed coral back in the filter, so it will require refilling the tank, so another PWC of about 15% will be done. My water is MUCH clearer today, so I think my situation is already fixing itself now that I get my post through ;) LOL. Amber Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > > > Only one thing to say. YAHOOOOOOOOOO-OOOOOO! A LONG thing but at least I > stuck to my word this time. > > Ooops.. by adding that follow-up sentence, I broke my word again. > Darn! :-P > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right > side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On > Behalf Of Amber Berglund > Sent: Friday, August 28, 2009 3:42 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Subject: Re: RE: [AquaticLife] Are my posts going through? > > Weird I've been posting to the changing water thread with questions and > thought I was getting ignored. They show as sent to the group on my end... > guess I will repost at lunch. > > Amber > > On Aug 28, 2009 10:50 AM, "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" > <GoldLenny@... <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com>> > wrote: > > I just looked at the Group's messages section and the last thread I see > where you've posted was on 8/25 in your Mystery Snail Eggs thread and then > this thread today... so apparently your emails are going off into a Yahoo > Black Hole. > > Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> (Links to any > articles referenced in ab... > > So far no one seems to be offering any advice on my tank issues and > whether > I'm right or not... I've... > > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 42963	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 8/28/2009
Subject: Re: How to treat my betta's disappearing tail fin

Do you have a filter on your betta tank? Mine likes to... love up to his filter intake, only God knows why ;) LOL. So he tends to lose the tips of his fins by doing this, perhaps he's trying to scare the filter intake away? LOL. I don't know if they are sensitive to antibiotics, perhaps someone else knows. Amber Dora Smith wrote: > > > My betta has the Case of the Disappearing Tail Fin. I don't know what's > causing it; don't know if maybe he mangled it when he got dropped during > water changes a couple of times. Not, betta wants to be picked up and put > back in teh water, NOOOOO. I've tried six drops of melafix to a gallon of > water, and one tsp salt per gallon. Not working. > > Betta otherwise seems fine - swimming around, appetite is fine, eats > almost > anything. Ocean nutrition betta pellets, Ocean nutrition formula one > flakes, mosquito larvae from the algae rock farm, spectrum small fish > pellets, and a little piece of cooked salmon. > > Betta is in a two gallon container with 1.5 gallons of water that gets > changed completely every day - I couldn't come up with a satisfactory > way to > get the poop out of the gravel with my siphon. > > I want to use antibiotic, but the instructions are all for regular > tropical > fish, not for bettas. > > What and specifically what dose do you recommend? > > Yours, > Dora Smith > Austin, TX > tiggernut24@... <mailto:tiggernut24%40yahoo.com> > > Yours, > Dora Smith > Austin, TX > tiggernut24@... <mailto:tiggernut24%40yahoo.com> > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 42964	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 8/28/2009
Subject: Re: oscar ill

If you have a quarantine tank, can you remove the Oscar? This would enable you to better see if he might not be eating when you are not around without the other fish getting to the food. You would also be able to observe whether he is pooping or not. Fish poop and it's appearance can help diagnose what might be wrong with a fish but in a tank with other fish and lots of filtration, it's hard to isolate a single fish's poop, thus the reason for the Q-tank. Is he showing any sign of bloating/swelling in the abdominal area? If you can remove him to a Q-tank, you could try treating him with some Epsom salts which also acts as a laxative for fish. In the future, when feeding freeze dried foods, use a spoonful of tank water and soak the foods for a minute or two until they are rehydrated. What happens to some fish is that they eat the freeze dried foods and then the foods soak up digestive juices inside the fish and can cause digestive blockage. Most of the times, these things will pass but not always.. which could be the issue in your case. You could also try soaking some green pea "meat" in some garlic juice or sprinkling with garlic power (pinch the skin off the peas and just feed the "meat" dosed with garlic). Garlic is known to induce feeding by fish but you may not want to do this for your fish yet since if it is bloated/constipated, adding more food behind the blockage could make things worse. If you could put a single grain of Epsom salt in any food that you can get the fish to eat, that would get the laxative directly to the fish but even if only treating the water column, by Osmoregulation, the fish will take in the Epsom salts and still get similar benefits. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of moiragrubb2000 Sent: Friday, August 28, 2009 4:56 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: oscar ill --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Steve Szabo" <steve@...> wrote: >one of my posts appears to have dissapeared so just to fill in the gaps >my nitrate reading is 20 I clean filters weekly alternating each one >gravel clean 20 to 25 per cent at least once a week. Intend to up this >if I was doing 2 to 3 a week how much water would I take out i have >never had any water issues with this tank and dont want to upset the >balance by taking out to much water. My problem at the moment is as my >oscar is not eating i cant get him to take veggies i did try him today, >is there anything i can put in the tank i really think it has got >aomething to do with the freeze dried food as i have just introduced it >lately the problem was that he was preferring that to his usual food >how often should you feed freeze dried foods. Im very gratefull of all >the replys sorry my posts are a bit disjointed but new to this thanks >again appreciate any more advice mo > Mo, > > Try to feed him some vegetables. If you have not been soaking the freeze dried stuff before feeding, he may have a blockage, and vegetables will help him clear it out. > > \\Steve// > > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] > On Behalf Of moira grubb > Sent: Thursday, August 27, 2009 5:32 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] oscar ill > > cheers bill the first thing i did was a water change and have been > trying him with different foods chicken prawns etc never tried > earthworms so i will try that next he is in a 5 foot tank i do regular > water changes and filter maintenance when i was watching him earlier > it looked like he had a sort of twitching of his head a kind of > jerking although he might just be trying to tell me to stop staring at > him lol i do actually feed him quite a varied diet but only introduced > the freeze dried stuff about 7 wks ago which he loved was just worried > this might have caused a problem  is there any medication you could > suggest he is definately under the weather and not his usual self > thanks again mo > > --- On Thu, 27/8/09, bill 1433 <warrenprint@...> wrote: > > From: bill 1433 <warrenprint@...> > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] oscar ill > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Date: Thursday, 27 August, 2009, 10:01 PM > > Hi Mo! > > My name is Bill and a few thousand years ago (just kidding, but along time) I raised Oscars.  Many people are of the firm belief that Oscars are real pigs and will eat darn near anything.  While that may be true to a certain extent, they do like a change of menu from time to time and the same diet without any variation at all is not good for any fish including the Discus! > > While we are talking about the front door, lets go around the back door for a moment.  The fishes "bodily functions" are all in proper working order, I would assume? > > Now for Oscars house?  Does he has a large enough tank with plenty of room?  One Oscar= 1 55 gallon tank at least, a 100 would be better if tank mates are present. > > Next, how about your water changes and general upkeep of the tank?  Try a 25% water change first as well as a change in diet.  Have you ever fed him small, good old fashioned earthworms?  Oscars love them.  To an Oscar, space is the big thing.  What is the size of the tank, not just gallons but physical size?  A standard 55 at 4 feet long is fine for 1 Oscar but with tankmates?  A 5 footer that is about 18 inches wide to allow him room to swim and turn around would be better and a 6 foot job at a 125 gallons would be the best. > > Bill > > > > --- On Thu, 8/27/09, moiragrubb2000 <moiragrubb2000@ yahoo.co. uk> wrote: > > > > From: moiragrubb2000 <moiragrubb2000@ yahoo.co. uk> > Subject: [AquaticLife] oscar ill > To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com > Date: Thursday, August 27, 2009, 4:25 PM > > hi i have been a member of this group for a while and find it > interesting and informative just reading the e mails this is the first > time ive had to ask for help i have an oscar  he is in an established > tank had him about 4 years he is about 6 yrs old. this last few days > he is not eating usually comes up to hand feed all water paramaters > fine and cant see anything physically wrong but he definately not his > usual self he shares his tank with 2 red sharks and a pleco all been > in tank 4 yrs other fish fine only thing thats changed is i have been > feeding him freeze dried river shrimp and krill since he has took a > liking to it along with frozen blood worm and cichlid pellets not all > at once obviously could it have anything to do with freeze dried food > would appreciate any feedback ,suggestions on what i csn try as > completely at a loss have put in some paragon oxygen tonic at the > moment tonight he did make an effort to pick up some gravel and throw > it at his > > tank mates but not interested in eating, any help would be > appreciated, thanks, mo

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 42965	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 8/28/2009
Subject: Re: Lenny

This is what it looks like when I received it. This is only happening to Margie's emails. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Margie Sent: Friday, August 28, 2009 4:48 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Lenny This e-mails looks ok to me on this end. -------Original Message------- From: sevenspringss Date: 8/28/2009 5:26:20 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Question - Silver Tip Shark May I presume then, that your fish has long "whiskers" (barbels) -- one pair on the upper lip and two pair on the lower? I hadn't seen any mention of this feature here, which would be the first thing that would noticably separate it from most other fish. If so, then this is a catfish (Jordan's Catfish); it can grow to 20" in the aquarium, if the tank is large enough. Be careful when you handle him, as his dorsal spines are toxic. This fish really doesn't belong in a freshwater tank, as it's a brackish water fish. Ray --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Margie" <MargiePhelps@...> wrote: > > It was listed at Pets Mart as Silver Tip and on my receipt, plus it looks > more like what is shown on the Internet as the Columbian. > > -------Original Message------- > > From: sevenspringss > Date: 8/28/2009 4:38:54 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Question - Silver Tip Shark > > Could just be that this is a "regular plain ole Silver Shark" (not Silver > Tip") -- otherwise known as Tri-Color Shark or Bala Shark (Balantiocheilos > melanopterus), as would be my best guess. They're a member of the Cyprinid > Family as are other freshwater "Sharks," and are related to Barbs, Carps and > Goldfish (not catfish). This species gets to 14". Ray > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@> > wrote: > > > > I'm answering as I read so bare with me. You certainly CAN NOT add more > > fish. In all likelihood, you are severely overstocked already. > > > > What kind of "2 catfish" do you have? The Pleco is also a catfish... do > you > > know what species it is? > > > > As far as the Silver Tip Shark, I did not recognize this common name but I > > found some references to a "better" common name being Columbian Shark. > Look > > at the pictures associated with this Mongabay profile and let us know if > > this is what you have. > > http://fish.mongabay.com/species/Arius_seemani.html > > > > If it is, then as you will see, this species of catfish... (so now you re > up > > to four catfish in the tank) ;-)... actually grows to 24", not as large in > > captivity, likely due to being kept in undersized tanks and suffering from > > stunting issues. Even for a 15" fast swimming fish like this one, you > > should have at least a 8' to 10' long tank so your 55G is NOT nearly big > > enough. > > > > Print out the Mongabay profile which recommends a bare minimum of 100-125G > > of water just for this single fish. Further, this fish is a brackish > water > > (somewhat salty water) fish which makes them even less compatible with > your > > other fish and should be kept in groups, as you know, so really, for > someone > > wanting to keep a shoal of these fish, they should have a 500G+ sized > > tank... maybe a little smaller if they do frequent PWC's and tank > > maintenance. > > > > As far as I know there are NO real "sharks" that live their lives in fresh > > water. Most of the fresh water fish that have the word "shark" as part of > > their name are usually from the catfish family. > > > > There are hundreds of catfish species with the smallest growing to only 1" > > and the largest growing to over 6' (SIX FEET) long so without knowing your > > species, it's hard to give any suggestions or advice. > > > > If your Pleco (also a catfish) is a common pleco, they grow to 18"+ and > get > > too big for your 55G also. There are some dwarf species that stay under 6 > > > but we would need to know what species you have before saying yeah or nay > on > > the pleco... same for the other "2 catfish". You may be able to keep the > > pleco, if it's a common pleco at least until it grows to around 6" and > then > > you would have to trade him in on a new baby common pleco or switch to a > > species of algae eater that stays smaller, like a Clown Pleco or Bristle > > Nose Pleco. Many LFS (local fish stores) will do the trade in thing. > Most > > PetsMarts will not do this. > > > > So.. that leaves the 6 Tiger Barbs as the only certain species... hoping > > that one is right, of course. ;-) > > > > Here is the Mongabay profile on Tiger Barbs (Puntius tetrazona)... > > http://fish.mongabay.com/species/Puntius_tetrazona.html > > > > Look at the SC section (Suggested Companions) for the most likely fish to > be > > suitable for being kept with this species. > > > > You will also see that these fish grow to around 3" each so these six fish > > would need at least 18G of your 55G total volume. This leaves you with > 37G > > of water volume for your remaining fish. If you get a dwarf pleco, it > would > > need around 10G of water volume so you would have 27G of water volume left > > over for addition fish that are mentioned in the SC section above. > > > > I'm presuming your other "2 catfish" are not going to be compatible with > > your tank. > > > > Please, in the future, do your own research or ask out here BEFORE buying > > fish so you can be more assured of getting fish that will work with your > > tank, water parameters and other fish. Asking after the fact makes life > > much harder for you and the fish. > > > > If you are an impulsive fish buyer, leave your purse and/or wallet in the > > car and only bring enough money to buy what you need, when you go into the > > PetsMart or LFS. ;-) > > > > Having a plan and working within that plan will bring back that warm and > > fuzzy fish feeling. > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > > (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right > > side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On > > Behalf Of Margie > > Sent: Friday, August 28, 2009 1:22 PM > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > Subject: [AquaticLife] Question - Silver Tip Shark > > > > I have a 55 G tank with 6 Tiger Barbs, 2 catfish, 1 Pleco and this Silver > > Tip Shark. I have read this breed of Shark is not good in a 55 g tank > > plus they need more of them, at least 3 in a shoal. They grow very large > > This one runs the tank length all day long, he zips across, then up and > > over again in the same pattern. And that he should be returned to the > store > > Pets Mart says he is ok with what I have. And I know not all at P Mart > > know a lot about fish and their habits. But then not everyone giving > advice > > on the 'net knows either. So, Lenny I know you do. So what is right? Is > > this Shark ok? Plus he looks more like a catfish. Is he in the catfish > > family? And I have a comment. When I tried having goldies and they > > were not to be > > due to parasites that totally wiped them out and now I have gone back to > > the tropicals. With the goldies I was getting brown algae also. When at > Pet > > Mart's I asked what would get rid of brown algae, would a algae eater do > it > > He said no, I asked if the pleco would, he said no. But I bought a > Pleco > > anyway and guess what he has cleaned all the brown algae away. So they do > > suck the algae up. HE is a happy little sucker. I do not plan to add > to > > the fish I have unless I need that one more Shark., > > I would go 2, but not three. Not if they grow that large. Are the fish > I > > have a good balance? I have had tanks for 50 years and > > never had troubles before like the goldies. And the goldies have made me > > totally paranoid now and I don't want to feel like that again. I had > tanks > > and never really worried about what I had or if they were ok together. > But > > It seems the more I read the less secure I feel about fish. I want that > > warm and fuzzy feeling back again.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 42966	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 8/28/2009
Subject: Re: Are my posts going through?

Add some cycled filter media from one of your other tanks to get this tank cycling again. This was the tank that got some nasty water from the recent boiler replacement at your condos... right? You are running fresh carbon in it also.. right? Double up on the dose of dechlor... mainly to add more heavy metal treatment since the new plumbing, if copper pipes, could possibly be leaching a little more copper than normal and inverts don't like copper. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Amber Berglund Sent: Friday, August 28, 2009 5:10 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Are my posts going through? Okay, well here was my most recent post, sent last night. pH: 6, not sure how that happened, perhaps all the water changes? Ammonia: Nearly 1 ppm Nitrite: 0 Nitrate: 0 KH: 1dh at most GH: 4 dh... perhaps it's time to add crushed coral again, I had some in the soil but it doesn't seem to be breaking down like the instructions say it will on the walstad info sites I've read... I think my tank is cycling again for sure, the filter issues must have killed off my bacteria. At least with my lower pH the ammonia isn't so toxic, but the snails and shrimp don't like the lower pH I think... they act different, way different. Now any suggestions? I'm going to do a filter cleaning to get rid of the build up and add the crushed coral back in the filter, so it will require refilling the tank, so another PWC of about 15% will be done. My water is MUCH clearer today, so I think my situation is already fixing itself now that I get my post through ;) LOL. Amber Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > > > Only one thing to say. YAHOOOOOOOOOO-OOOOOO! A LONG thing but at least > I stuck to my word this time. > > Ooops.. by adding that follow-up sentence, I broke my word again. > Darn! :-P > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> (Links to any articles referenced in > above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels > and also under Archives by Year, Month) > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On Behalf Of Amber Berglund > Sent: Friday, August 28, 2009 3:42 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Subject: Re: RE: [AquaticLife] Are my posts going through? > > Weird I've been posting to the changing water thread with questions > and thought I was getting ignored. They show as sent to the group on my end... > guess I will repost at lunch. > > Amber > > On Aug 28, 2009 10:50 AM, "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" > <GoldLenny@... <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com>> > wrote: > > I just looked at the Group's messages section and the last thread I > see where you've posted was on 8/25 in your Mystery Snail Eggs thread > and then this thread today... so apparently your emails are going off > into a Yahoo Black Hole. > > Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> (Links to any articles referenced in > ab... > > So far no one seems to be offering any advice on my tank issues and > whether I'm right or not... I've... > > > ------------------------------------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the home page. Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com to receive the digest, which includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com for the No E-Mail option where you will still be able to read messages on the group and post replies. Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com to receive individual e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 42967	From: sevenspringss	Date: 8/28/2009
Subject: Re: Question - Silver Tip Shark

Alright, then that's the one I just got done mentioning -- Jordan's Catfish. That's the problem again, with common names, as unless a scientific name is given it's easy to come up with a number of different fish each having the same common name -- unless one knows what they're looking for. The two long "whiskers" are the ones on the top lip, but the others aren't really that short. Even the scientific name can be confusing sometimes, when ichthyologists redescribe these fish. In this case, the name is Arius jordani (hence: "Jordan's" Catfish), but it has at least three other synonyms -- Arius seemanni, sciades seemanni and Hexanematichthys seemanni. Other erroneous websites brought me to a Red Tail Catfish, a spotted Pimelodus Catfish and several other "so-called" Silver-Tip Sharks by various other names. Ray --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Margie" <MargiePhelps@...> wrote: > > He has two long "whiskers" and some very tiny/short whiskers also, plus > has silver tips on all his fins. And looks like the Silver Tip Shark and/or > the Columbian shark on the 'net. He has a very white flat belly. > > -------Original Message------- > > From: sevenspringss > Date: 8/28/2009 5:26:20 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Question - Silver Tip Shark > > May I presume then, that your fish has long "whiskers" (barbels) -- one pair > on the upper lip and two pair on the lower? I hadn't seen any mention of > this feature here, which would be the first thing that would noticably > separate it from most other fish. If so, then this is a catfish (Jordan's > Catfish); it can grow to 20" in the aquarium, if the tank is large enough. > Be careful when you handle him, as his dorsal spines are toxic. This fish > really doesn't belong in a freshwater tank, as it's a brackish water fish. > Ray > > > > > > , > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 42968	From: sevenspringss@wmconnect.com	Date: 8/28/2009
Subject: Re: oscar ill

Mo, At first thought, I too figured this problem may have had something to do with the freeze dried food, but that seemed too "obvious," so I was looking for possible water quality issues. You're apparently maintaining this aquarium properly though, so we come right back to this food. For treating with Epsom Salts, try using 1 Tbp per 5 gallons, if it seems he's constipated -- and if you can isolate him. Pleco's don't like too much table salt and I'm not sure if they take kindly to Epsom Salts either. For treating initial stages of some internal issues, some hobbyists increase the amount of Epsom Salts slowly to 1 tsp per gallon (or more) -- that's 1 2/3 Tsp per 5 gallons -- but the fish must be observed that he doesn't get stressed. Ray [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 42969	From: robbrouse	Date: 8/28/2009
Subject: Re: Cycling and Nitrite

Yes sorry nitrites is was at 5.0 for several days. I will NOT be adding fish this weekend as planned. Too much time and money involved to kill helpless creatures at this point. I started another tap water base line and checked it twice and I do have nitrate in my water as well 5.0 So my tap water base line is. Ammonia 0 Nitr(I)tes .50 Niotr(A)te 5.0 Ph 7.8 KH 4. – NEW Test Kit GH 11 – New test Kit Did all the test 3 times to make sure reading were right. I will be getting the API Water Conditioner soon I have Aqueon right now. I also have some doubts about the cycle as of now as we have found out it's not ready yet. That's is why we test out water to make sure it's safe. I did go though and remove the carbon today. Now non of the filters have carbon in it. I left the bro wheels as well as the Bio-Max Rings in the filters. The article l I read did not say anything about removing the carbon. Bit it is done as of now. When I removed the Marineland I decided to cut it open and see and there was nothing but black carbon in there.. The same with the canister filet. No the plants are all fake. I have been looking into live plants but I do remember not to use them for the fishless cycle. A side note I was unable to cut the media like you did on your blog. I might just snag some filter media and use it. As you know the Marineland filter has baskets so to speak I could add carbon to that if needed Recap. Right now carbon is out. Ammonia is .25 and was dose this morning at 8:00 ish. Nitrite Is still running high. I removed all the carbon from the filters. I had a neighbor let me borrow some Amquel it did remove the nitrite but not the ammonia so I really don't see that as a good product to use. I filled a gallon jug and did my base line and then added 1 drop of ammonia and tested again the nitrite was 0 but the ammonia was still .5. I just need to finish a proper fishless cycle. . Again did I miss anything you asked? Id so please let me know. I'm just trying tot do what's right for the fish. If it's 1 week or 6 weeks I'm more than willing to wait it out. Robb --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@...> wrote: > > OK... you need to be certain of what you type or I cannot be certain of how > to answer. > > In the second paragraph, you mention "nitrates spiked (was at 5.0 for > several days)" and I'm presuming you meant nitrItes??? The nitrAtes is the > end product of the nitrogen cycle... at least for the purposes of fishless > cycling a tank. Every day that you add ammonia, that ammonia is converted > to nitrIte. Then the nitrIte is converted to nitrAte. Ammonia and nitrIte > is toxic to fish. NitrAte is only dangerous at very high levels, over > 100ppm but we strive to keep them under 40ppm or even under 20ppm by doing > our weekly 25% PWC's, using plants, etc.... once the tank is stocked and > running. During a fishless cycle, there is NO NEED to do a PWC unless > certain things happen like a stall in the cycling. This usually only > happens with very low KH water, which is not present in your case. > > Your PWC's will NOT raise your nitrItes to any major level... even with a > 100% water change, the nitrItes would only go to 0.5ppm so a 25% PWC would > only raise them to 0.125ppm, which might not even show up on our test kits. > > I'm not sure why your nitrItes spiked from 0.0ppm to 5.0ppm after doing a > PWC unless you shocked the nitrifying bacteria or did not fully dechlor the > water or something. Unless you can replicate that event, I have no clue > what happened. As I've stated, doing a PWC will NOT raise your nitrItes to > 5.0ppm since your tap water only has 0.5ppm of nitrItes in it. It simply is > NOT possible from a chemistry or math perspective... unless something else > happened. > > Please do NOT get fish yet. Continue your fishless cycling for a few more > days and lets make sure things are working properly. DO NOT do any PWC's > while you continue the testing. Lets make sure things are working properly > and then you can plan your next step. > > Remember that I had some doubts about your fishless cycle from the beginning > after you stated that you started from scratch and it was fully cycling in > less than two weeks.... but then I thought that maybe your 0.5ppm of > nitrItes in your tap water might have helped to jump start things. Because > of all of the weird fluctuations in your numbers, I'm very uncertain that > your tank is cycling properly. Unless I see your nitrAtes start to rise, > then I have to suspect something in your filter is removing the > ammonia/nitrite/nitrate or you are not testing properly or your test kit is > bad. This is a chemical process that HAS TO FOLLOW certain physiological > processes, much like math where 1 + 1 + 1 = 3. Even in public schools, 1 + > 1 + 1 still equals 3 and this is the only answer that is correct. With the > nitrogen cycle, ammonia is converted to nitrIte is converted to nitrAte and > then the nitrAte is kept at a safe level by doing PWC's, using plants and/or > having advanced filtration methods where denitrification of the nitrates can > be done. For us, we use PWC's and plants to help keep the nitrates at a > safe level below 40ppm. > > You should have removed the carbon when you started fishless cycling. ALL > of the fishless cycling articles that I've read have this as one of the > steps. I'm not sure it hurts very much but I guess it does or they wouldn't > have this as one of their steps. Further, there is NO NEED to run carbon in > a filter system even with fish, much less without fish in a tank. It's just > another way that the filter companies try to separate people from their > hard-earned money. They must think they are the Guv'ment or something. ;-) > > If your nitrAtes have never been over 10ppm, then either your testing is > compromised or something else is going wrong. For example, in a fully > stocked tank, the fish put out around 5ppm of ammonia each day. After a > week of this and with no plants or filter media to remove the nitrogenous > compounds, the nitrates would be over 20ppm, possibly higher. Since you > were dosing the tank with 5ppm, twice a day, your nitrates should be well > over 40ppm, probably MUCH HIGHER and you are not seeing this figure. Look > at your nitrate test instructions. Were you shaking the bottles prior to > testing? Nitrate bottle #2 says to shake for at least 30 seconds but it > should be more like 1 minute or more if the bottle has been sitting for a > long time. If you did not do this each time, prior to testing, your nitrate > bottle #2 is probably compromised and will NEVER give you accurate readings > again. See if you can pick up another Nitrate test kit and shake it like > crazy before using it and lets make sure your nitrates are correct. > > As far as filter cartridges, MANY of them, usually Tetra or TopFin brand > actually have Zeolite inside of the filter cartridges so many fish keepers > do not even realize this. I don't think that Marineland has started doing > this but then I haven't bought any filter cartridges for any of my HOB's in > many years so I'm not sure what they might be up to. If I know them, they > would have started throwing this crap in their filters to force you to have > to trash the filters and buy new ones more often. > > Last but not least, do you have live plants in your tank? This is another > thing that IS NOT in the instructions for fishless cycling but I've seen > people do it and it only messes up the fishless cycling process. Your > carbon could also be doing this so please remove the carbon for these next > few days. The other reason you should not use carbon when fishless cycling > is that some of your good bacteria would then be growing on the carbon and > since carbon gets thrown away every few weeks, you would be trashing the > bacteria you worked so hard to grow. By not using carbon, it forces the > good bacteria to grow on the Bio-Wheels and other filter media that will be > staying in the tank, not getting trashed. > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right > side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) > > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On > Behalf Of robbrouse > Sent: Friday, August 28, 2009 2:35 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Cycling and Nitrite > > The first small water change was done to see what would happen to the > nitrite level being I have some in my tap. At this point I was at 0 reading > on all and the nitrates has never been above 10. It has been at 5 since the > test Tank cycled (ammonia and nitrates both hot 0) Other than Topping off > the water this is all the water changes that have been done. I guess I > misunderstood about the 2 day before added fish. Should of done it today I > guess. It did take over night for the temp to raise to the 76 that my heater > was set to. > > Like I stated I did not do a water change until both the ammonia spiked > (stayed at 5.00 or greater for several days) and nitrates spiked (was at 5.0 > for several days) and then I did a 10% to see what would happen to the > nitrite level since I do have some in my tap water. > > Ok I don't think I'll hit the level of 0 on nitrites so I will not be added > fish I still have been adding ammonia twice a day had like my last number > show with in 9 to 10 hours all ammonia was gone and nitrate were down to 0. > > The highest my nitrates has been is 10. I bought a brand new kit and am not > using any of the older test gear even though they all match in the reading,. > > As far as filters I have a Fluva; 305 as well as an Marineland Emperor > Bio-Wheel 400 Power Filter filet. The Fluval has Fluval Bio-Max Rings and > Carbon. The Emperor has the standard Filers and the Bio-Wheel. > > I have sued the ammo-lock stuff in the past but not on this setup. > > If I was at 5.0 reading for my nitrates like it stayed there for over a week > should I even do a 90% water change? > > I don't believe in cycling with fish and I want to do this right. > > Last time I did a fishless cycle it was on a 10 Gallon tank and it cycled in > 2 weeks I added 8 Black Neons and they all lived for about 2 years and then > we went on vacation and the water changes were not done and 6 of the 8 died > and the other two soon followed. > > The 55 gallon I had nothing but problems with from the start. I ended up > replacing the tank (it cracked) added a new filter and spending several days > washing the gravel to make sure nothing was left. Anyway I'm kind of stuck > at this point. I know people that swear by anquel they say it will remove > the ammonia and the nitrites from there tap water but it $35 for a gallon. I > know it cost more but if it takes the ammonia and nitrates out would it be > work it? > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@> > wrote: > > > > While your theory sounds good, you can't do the large PWC 48 hours > > before you add fish since you will still have to dose the tank each > > day for that 48 hours or your nitrifying bacteria will die off without > > an ammonia/nitrite food source. This is why the Fishless Cycling > > articles say to do the large 90% PWC shortly before adding fish. It > > doesn't take 48 hours for the temperature to come up from 76F to 80F. > > > > I'm still concerned about your Fishless Cycling test results but since > > you've been doing PWC's intermittently, it's hard to know what is > > really happening. Normally, at the end of a Fishless Cycle, the > > nitrAtes would be very high, which is why you do the large 90% PWC. > > In your case, your nitrAtes are only 5.0ppm. While the nitrAtes do > > not climb proportionately with the ammonia/nitrite levels, they should > > be climbing well over the 50.0ppm range after a fishless cycle. Once > > again, your intermittent PWC's have artificially lowered this number > > but have you ever seen your nitrAtes above 5ppm prior to doing a PWC? > > If they haven't been climbing, then either your nitrAte test is bad or > > you are not shaking the solutions enough or something. > > > > Don't buy fish yet. Continue dosing the tank for a few more days... > > maybe even a week and lets see if your nitrAtes are climbing to make > > sure your tank is cycling properly. DO NOT do any PWC's during this > > several days to week long test so we can get an accurate picture of what > is happening. > > > > I'm not sure if you ever answered one of my earlier questions about > > filter media. Exactly what kind of filter media do you have in each > filter system? > > Many of them come with Zeolite (whitish colored rocks) and many folks > > do not realize that this is an ammonia absorbing rock and will > > adversely affect you when trying to properly cycle a tank. > > > > Let me know. > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles > > referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically > > under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] > > On Behalf Of robbrouse > > Sent: Friday, August 28, 2009 11:40 AM > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Cycling and Nitrite > > > > After the larger water change it was 5.0 on the nitrite. > > > > I does the tank about 24 hours before I did the testing. Then I added > > tap water that was treated with the API conditioner. Then i filled it > > back up and the readers were off the chart. > > > > The reason I did the 75% water change I was going to add dish tomorrow. > > Wanted to get the water changed and let the tank sit for 48 hours so > > the temp all all could regulate and then add the fish tomorrow. > > > > This has been the daily steps for the last week. > > > > 5:00AM - Test Results before dosing with ammonia Ammonia 0.00 Nitrites > > 0.00 Nitrate 5.0 PH 7.4 GH 11 KH 4 Temp been at 76 > > > > 5:20AM - dosed with ammonia to 5ppm > > > > 2:45 PM - Test Results 12 hours later > > Ammonia 0.00 > > Nitrites 0.00 > > Nitrate 5.0 > > PH 7.4 > > GH 11 > > KH 4 > > Temp been at 76 > > > > 3:15 PM - dosed with ammonia to 5ppm > > > > This has been the routine for the last 7 days and as you can see in > > around 9:00 The levels were back at 0. > > > > You asked if I over does the ammonia not this time one time before I > > added > > 15 ML to see what would happen and this was done at the 2:45 3:00 PM > > test and it was done by morning. > > > > I did the LARGE PWC yesterday like I said I was sure the cycle was > > over and the tank was ready for fish so I did the large PWC and was > > going to go to the LFS in the morning and get my fish today was going > > to be the final planing day for the finned friends. > > > > I might of missed some of your question and I'm grateful for the help > > you have been giving me over the last month, > > > > Robb > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" > > <GoldLenny@> > > wrote: > > > > > > OK. I'm puzzled about your nitrIte readings. In one test, you show > > > nitrItes as 0.00ppm and then they jump to 5.0ppm? Or did you mean > > 0.5ppm??? > > > I see in a later test that the nitrItes were at 2.0ppm and then > > > 1.0ppm so I'm guessing you did mean 5.0ppm in the first test... but > > > I'm confused as to how that jumped up? Did you dose ammonia shortly > > > before > > doing the testing? > > > Did you possibly overdose the ammonia? > > > > > > I see that the nitrItes dropped from 5.0ppm (330PM) to 2.0ppm > > > (730PM) in only 4 hours so it appears that your tank is still > > > cycling properly but I'm just not sure why they jumped up so high, > > > so fast. Your 75% PWC should have only added less than 0.5ppm of > nitrItes to the tank. > > > > > > Are you dosing the tank daily or twice daily with the 4-5ppm of ammonia? > > > (which is 3-5 drops per gallon... depending on the size of the drops). > > > I see you mentioned adding 10ml of ammonia which is the proper > > > amount to add to a 55G tank to bring the ammonia level up to 5.0ppm. > > > > > > Why did you do a 75% PWC? There's no need to do this when fishless > > > cycling unless the water has a low KH level as a low KH level can > > > cause a fishless cycle to go into a stall since the bacteria need > > Carbonates. > > > > > > For simplicity, please include more details in the steps you are doing. > > > > > > > For example: > > > > > >8AM - Test Results before dosing with ammonia (list results) > > > > > > 830AM - dosed with ammonia to 5ppm > > > > > > 8PM - Test Results 12 hours later > > > (list results) > > > > > > 830PM - dosed with enough ammonia to bring back up to 5p pm > > > > > > Etc., etc. > > > > > > Then we will be better able to see what is happening without having > > > to guess as any missing steps. This isn't critical but is helpful > > > for us to be able to answer your questions better. > > > > > > As I've pointed out in past posts, if your tap water has 0.5ppm or > > > less of nitrItes, then doing a weekly 25% PWC will only increase the > > > nitrite level in the tank to 0.125ppm which, if your filters are > > > running, will almost immediately be converted to nitrAtes. There is > > > NOTHING to worry about with such a low level of nitrItes. > > > > > > You DO NOT need to buy any special tap water dechlor product. > > > Simply use API's Tap Water Conditioner or a similar product. API's > 16oz. > > > bottle is around $5.00 online (DrsFosterSmith.com) and will last you > > > over a year on a single 55G tank. It's more concentrated than other > > > products. With API, you only need 1ml per 10G of water where other > > > products need 5ml or even 10ml per 10G of water. > > > > > > Last but not least, while there is no need to do these PWC's in your > > > case, when you are doing them, are you using a dechlor on the water > > > before adding it to the tank? Or, are you dosing the tank with the > > > dechlor and then adding the water? Or what is your procedure. > > > > > > The devil is in the details somewhere in all of this. > > > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles > > > referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, > > > alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) > > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] > > > On Behalf Of robbrouse > > > Sent: Friday, August 28, 2009 10:15 AM > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > > Subject: [AquaticLife] Cycling and Nitrite > > > > > > For those of you that have been following the cycling progress of my > > > 55 Gallon tank here is the latest. > > > > > > I tested the water yesterday and here are the reading. > > > > > > Ammonia 0.00 > > > Nitrites 0.00 > > > Nitrate 5.0 > > > PH 7.4 > > > GH 11 > > > KH 4 > > > Temp been at 76 > > > > > > I did a 75% water change and after I got the water out and back in > > > here are my reading as of 3:30 Mountain time yesterday. > > > > > > Ammonia 0.0 > > > Nitrites 5.0 - could of been a miss-test Nitrate 5.0 PH 7.4 GH 11 KH > > > 4 Temp been at 76 > > > > > > Here are the reading at 7:30 Last Night. > > > > > > Ammonia 0.0 > > > Nitrites 2.0 > > > Nitrate 5.0 > > > PH 7.4 > > > GH 11 > > > KH 4 > > > Temp been at 76 > > > > > > Here they are as of 8:30 Today (8-28-09) > > > > > > Ammonia 0.0 > > > Nitrites 1.0 > > > Nitrate 5.0 > > > PH 7.4 > > > GH 11 > > > KH 4 > > > Temp been at 76 > > > > > > I do have between .25 and .5 of Nitrite in my tap water. About a > > > week ago I did a 15% Water change and it took about 45 minutes to > > > get the nitrite back down to 0.0. > > > > > > The tank has been dose with ammonia for the last week after my > > > number all hit the target goal twice a day with 10 ML and it took > > > less than 6 hours both times to drop the ammonia to zero and the > > > nitrite never lever zero or if it did it was zero during all tests. > > > > > > I dosed it with ammonia again last night and it was 0 again today. > > > > > > I guess my biggest thing is here if all keeps going the way it is > > > every time I do a PWC I will shoot the Nitrite level back up. I was > > > wondering if I should use a product like Amquel, Stress Zyme or > > > Prime for my water conditioner. First do they work? Do the remove > > > the nitrite (will you a zero reading with test kits) or do they just > > naturalize it? > > > > > > I have checked water source from 4 different places (all in > > > different water > > > districts) and they all have a Nitrite, all being very close to what > > > my tap water is. > > > > > > I've spent to many money getting ready fro fish and getting it all > > > set up I'm not going to be happy if I can't keep them. Anyways as > > > always any suggesting would be helpful. > > > > > > The only thing I know numbers were perfect for over a week until I > > > did the 75% water change and now it high again. It's been 17 Hours > > > if there were fish in the tank this could of been a nightmare. > > > > > > Robb >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 42970	From: Margie	Date: 8/28/2009
Subject: Re: Lenny

It did not happen when I sent it to Ray, so maybe for what ever reason your e-mail and mine are compatible, It is ok elsewhere. And I host a group and it is not a problem there either. So I don't know. -------Original Message------- From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny Date: 8/28/2009 6:30:32 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Lenny This is what it looks like when I received it. This is only happening to Margie's emails. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Margie Sent: Friday, August 28, 2009 4:48 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Lenny This e-mails looks ok to me on this end. -------Original Message------- From: sevenspringss Date: 8/28/2009 5:26:20 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Question - Silver Tip Shark May I presume then, that your fish has long "whiskers" (barbels) -- one pair on the upper lip and two pair on the lower? I hadn't seen any mention of this feature here, which would be the first thing that would noticably separate it from most other fish. If so, then this is a catfish (Jordan's Catfish); it can grow to 20" in the aquarium, if the tank is large enough. Be careful when you handle him, as his dorsal spines are toxic. This fish really doesn't belong in a freshwater tank, as it's a brackish water fish. Ray --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Margie" <MargiePhelps@...> wrote: > > It was listed at Pets Mart as Silver Tip and on my receipt, plus it looks > more like what is shown on the Internet as the Columbian. > > -------Original Message------- > > From: sevenspringss > Date: 8/28/2009 4:38:54 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Question - Silver Tip Shark > > Could just be that this is a "regular plain ole Silver Shark" (not Silver > Tip") -- otherwise known as Tri-Color Shark or Bala Shark (Balantiocheilos > melanopterus), as would be my best guess. They're a member of the Cyprinid > Family as are other freshwater "Sharks," and are related to Barbs, Carps and > Goldfish (not catfish). This species gets to 14". Ray > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@> > wrote: > > > > I'm answering as I read so bare with me. You certainly CAN NOT add more > > fish. In all likelihood, you are severely overstocked already. > > > > What kind of "2 catfish" do you have? The Pleco is also a catfish... do > you > > know what species it is? > > > > As far as the Silver Tip Shark, I did not recognize this common name but I > > found some references to a "better" common name being Columbian Shark. > Look > > at the pictures associated with this Mongabay profile and let us know if > > this is what you have. > > http://fish.mongabay.com/species/Arius_seemani.html > > > > If it is, then as you will see, this species of catfish... (so now you re > up > > to four catfish in the tank) ;-)... actually grows to 24", not as large in > > captivity, likely due to being kept in undersized tanks and suffering from > > stunting issues. Even for a 15" fast swimming fish like this one, you > > should have at least a 8' to 10' long tank so your 55G is NOT nearly big > > enough. > > > > Print out the Mongabay profile which recommends a bare minimum of 100-125G > > of water just for this single fish. Further, this fish is a brackish > water > > (somewhat salty water) fish which makes them even less compatible with > your > > other fish and should be kept in groups, as you know, so really, for > someone > > wanting to keep a shoal of these fish, they should have a 500G+ sized > > tank... maybe a little smaller if they do frequent PWC's and tank > > maintenance. > > > > As far as I know there are NO real "sharks" that live their lives in fresh > > water. Most of the fresh water fish that have the word "shark" as part of > > their name are usually from the catfish family. > > > > There are hundreds of catfish species with the smallest growing to only 1" > > and the largest growing to over 6' (SIX FEET) long so without knowing your > > species, it's hard to give any suggestions or advice. > > > > If your Pleco (also a catfish) is a common pleco, they grow to 18"+ and > get > > too big for your 55G also. There are some dwarf species that stay under 6 > > > but we would need to know what species you have before saying yeah or nay > on > > the pleco... same for the other "2 catfish". You may be able to keep the > > pleco, if it's a common pleco at least until it grows to around 6" and > then > > you would have to trade him in on a new baby common pleco or switch to a > > species of algae eater that stays smaller, like a Clown Pleco or Bristle > > Nose Pleco. Many LFS (local fish stores) will do the trade in thing. > Most > > PetsMarts will not do this. > > > > So.. that leaves the 6 Tiger Barbs as the only certain species... hoping > > that one is right, of course. ;-) > > > > Here is the Mongabay profile on Tiger Barbs (Puntius tetrazona)... > > http://fish.mongabay.com/species/Puntius_tetrazona.html > > > > Look at the SC section (Suggested Companions) for the most likely fish to > be > > suitable for being kept with this species. > > > > You will also see that these fish grow to around 3" each so these six fish > > would need at least 18G of your 55G total volume. This leaves you with > 37G > > of water volume for your remaining fish. If you get a dwarf pleco, it > would > > need around 10G of water volume so you would have 27G of water volume left > > over for addition fish that are mentioned in the SC section above. > > > > I'm presuming your other "2 catfish" are not going to be compatible with > > your tank. > > > > Please, in the future, do your own research or ask out here BEFORE buying > > fish so you can be more assured of getting fish that will work with your > > tank, water parameters and other fish. Asking after the fact makes life > > much harder for you and the fish. > > > > If you are an impulsive fish buyer, leave your purse and/or wallet in the > > car and only bring enough money to buy what you need, when you go into the > > PetsMart or LFS. ;-) > > > > Having a plan and working within that plan will bring back that warm and > > fuzzy fish feeling. > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > > (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right > > side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On > > Behalf Of Margie > > Sent: Friday, August 28, 2009 1:22 PM > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > Subject: [AquaticLife] Question - Silver Tip Shark > > > > I have a 55 G tank with 6 Tiger Barbs, 2 catfish, 1 Pleco and this Silver > > Tip Shark. I have read this breed of Shark is not good in a 55 g tank > > plus they need more of them, at least 3 in a shoal. They grow very large > > This one runs the tank length all day long, he zips across, then up and > > over again in the same pattern. And that he should be returned to the > store > > Pets Mart says he is ok with what I have. And I know not all at P Mart > > know a lot about fish and their habits. But then not everyone giving > advice > > on the 'net knows either. So, Lenny I know you do. So what is right? Is > > this Shark ok? Plus he looks more like a catfish. Is he in the catfish > > family? And I have a comment. When I tried having goldies and they > > were not to be > > due to parasites that totally wiped them out and now I have gone back to > > the tropicals. With the goldies I was getting brown algae also. When at > Pet > > Mart's I asked what would get rid of brown algae, would a algae eater do > it > > He said no, I asked if the pleco would, he said no. But I bought a > Pleco > > anyway and guess what he has cleaned all the brown algae away. So they do > > suck the algae up. HE is a happy little sucker. I do not plan to add > to > > the fish I have unless I need that one more Shark., > > I would go 2, but not three. Not if they grow that large. Are the fish > I > > have a good balance? I have had tanks for 50 years and > > never had troubles before like the goldies. And the goldies have made me > > totally paranoid now and I don't want to feel like that again. I had > tanks > > and never really worried about what I had or if they were ok together. > But > > It seems the more I read the less secure I feel about fish. I want that > > warm and fuzzy feeling back again. ------------------------------------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the home page. Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com to receive the digest, which includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com for the No E-Mail option where you will still be able to read messages on the group and post replies. Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com to receive individual e-mails Yahoo! Groups Links [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 42971	From: moiragrubb2000	Date: 8/28/2009
Subject: Re: oscar ill

--- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@...> wrote: >unfortunately i do not have a quarantine tank big enough i think he looks a bit bloated but hard to tell he usually hand feeds but is just backing away could i put a grain of epsom salt in a garlic soaked pea i have got spare filter heaters etc if i could try and find something to make atemporary tank i will defo make sure i soak food in future > If you have a quarantine tank, can you remove the Oscar? This would enable > you to better see if he might not be eating when you are not around without > the other fish getting to the food. You would also be able to observe > whether he is pooping or not. Fish poop and it's appearance can help > diagnose what might be wrong with a fish but in a tank with other fish and > lots of filtration, it's hard to isolate a single fish's poop, thus the > reason for the Q-tank. Is he showing any sign of bloating/swelling in the > abdominal area? If you can remove him to a Q-tank, you could try treating > him with some Epsom salts which also acts as a laxative for fish. > > In the future, when feeding freeze dried foods, use a spoonful of tank water > and soak the foods for a minute or two until they are rehydrated. What > happens to some fish is that they eat the freeze dried foods and then the > foods soak up digestive juices inside the fish and can cause digestive > blockage. Most of the times, these things will pass but not always.. which > could be the issue in your case. > > You could also try soaking some green pea "meat" in some garlic juice or > sprinkling with garlic power (pinch the skin off the peas and just feed the > "meat" dosed with garlic). Garlic is known to induce feeding by fish but > you may not want to do this for your fish yet since if it is > bloated/constipated, adding more food behind the blockage could make things > worse. > > If you could put a single grain of Epsom salt in any food that you can get > the fish to eat, that would get the laxative directly to the fish but even > if only treating the water column, by Osmoregulation, the fish will take in > the Epsom salts and still get similar benefits. > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right > side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) > > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On > Behalf Of moiragrubb2000 > Sent: Friday, August 28, 2009 4:56 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: oscar ill > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Steve Szabo" <steve@> wrote: > >one of my posts appears to have dissapeared so just to fill in the gaps > >my nitrate reading is 20 I clean filters weekly alternating each one > >gravel clean 20 to 25 per cent at least once a week. Intend to up this > >if I was doing 2 to 3 a week how much water would I take out i have > >never had any water issues with this tank and dont want to upset the > >balance by taking out to much water. My problem at the moment is as my > >oscar is not eating i cant get him to take veggies i did try him today, > >is there anything i can put in the tank i really think it has got > >aomething to do with the freeze dried food as i have just introduced it > >lately the problem was that he was preferring that to his usual food > >how often should you feed freeze dried foods. Im very gratefull of all > >the replys sorry my posts are a bit disjointed but new to this thanks > >again appreciate any more advice > mo > > Mo, > > > > Try to feed him some vegetables. If you have not been soaking the freeze > dried stuff before feeding, he may have a blockage, and vegetables will help > him clear it out. > > > > \\Steve// > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] > > On Behalf Of moira grubb > > Sent: Thursday, August 27, 2009 5:32 PM > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] oscar ill > > > > cheers bill the first thing i did was a water change and have been > > trying him with different foods chicken prawns etc never tried > > earthworms so i will try that next he is in a 5 foot tank i do regular > > water changes and filter maintenance when i was watching him earlier > > it looked like he had a sort of twitching of his head a kind of > > jerking although he might just be trying to tell me to stop staring at > > him lol i do actually feed him quite a varied diet but only introduced > > the freeze dried stuff about 7 wks ago which he loved was just worried > > this might have caused a problem  is there any medication you could > > suggest he is definately under the weather and not his usual self > > thanks again mo > > > > --- On Thu, 27/8/09, bill 1433 <warrenprint@> wrote: > > > > From: bill 1433 <warrenprint@> > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] oscar ill > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > Date: Thursday, 27 August, 2009, 10:01 PM > > > > Hi Mo! > > > > My name is Bill and a few thousand years ago (just kidding, but along > time) I raised Oscars.  Many people are of the firm belief that Oscars are > real pigs and will eat darn near anything.  While that may be true to a > certain extent, they do like a change of menu from time to time and the same > diet without any variation at all is not good for any fish including the > Discus! > > > > While we are talking about the front door, lets go around the back door > for a moment.  The fishes "bodily functions" are all in proper working > order, I would assume? > > > > Now for Oscars house?  Does he has a large enough tank with plenty of > room?  One Oscar= 1 55 gallon tank at least, a 100 would be better if tank > mates are present. > > > > Next, how about your water changes and general upkeep of the tank?  Try a > 25% water change first as well as a change in diet.  Have you ever fed him > small, good old fashioned earthworms?  Oscars love them.  To an Oscar, space > is the big thing.  What is the size of the tank, not just gallons but > physical size?  A standard 55 at 4 feet long is fine for 1 Oscar but with > tankmates?  A 5 footer that is about 18 inches wide to allow him room to > swim and turn around would be better and a 6 foot job at a 125 gallons would > be the best. > > > > Bill > > > > > > > > --- On Thu, 8/27/09, moiragrubb2000 <moiragrubb2000@ yahoo.co. uk> wrote: > > > > > > > > From: moiragrubb2000 <moiragrubb2000@ yahoo.co. uk> > > Subject: [AquaticLife] oscar ill > > To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com > > Date: Thursday, August 27, 2009, 4:25 PM > > > > hi i have been a member of this group for a while and find it > > interesting and informative just reading the e mails this is the first > > time ive had to ask for help i have an oscar  he is in an established > > tank had him about 4 years he is about 6 yrs old. this last few days > > he is not eating usually comes up to hand feed all water paramaters > > fine and cant see anything physically wrong but he definately not his > > usual self he shares his tank with 2 red sharks and a pleco all been > > in tank 4 yrs other fish fine only thing thats changed is i have been > > feeding him freeze dried river shrimp and krill since he has took a > > liking to it along with frozen blood worm and cichlid pellets not all > > at once obviously could it have anything to do with freeze dried food > > would appreciate any feedback ,suggestions on what i csn try as > > completely at a loss have put in some paragon oxygen tonic at the > > moment tonight he did make an effort to pick up some gravel and throw > > it at his > > > > tank mates but not interested in eating, any help would be > > appreciated, thanks, mo >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 42972	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 8/28/2009
Subject: Re: Question - Silver Tip Shark

I posted the Mongabay profile earlier in this thread with the scientific name of Arius seemani with one of the synonyms as A. jordani and others. http://fish.mongabay.com/species/Arius_seemani.html This profile says that the two whiskers are on the lower jaw though. Here's a SNIP: The Shark Catfish possesses three pairs of barbels; one on the upper jaw and two on the lower. Whew.. while searching Fishbase.org, I couldn't find it under the above names or synonyms but then noticed that Mongabay has seemani and you have seemanni with two n's and Fishbase found it under Arius seemanni but list the main scientific name as Sciades seemanni with the common name of Tete sea catfish with a nice picture (that can be clicked on to see a larger image). http://fishbase.org/Summary/speciesSummary.php?ID=13480&genusname=Sciades&sp eciesname=seemanni&lang=English Considering that Fishbase.org is probably the most accurate site, I also decide to check on PlanetCatfish.com to see what they said. Nothing under Jordan's catfish, Arius seemani or seemanni, etc. BUT... under the common name, Columbian Shark Catfish, they have it listed under the scientific name, Hexanematichthys seemanni (one of the synonyms on the Mongabay page along with A. jordani and others) http://www.planetcatfish.com/catelog/species.php?species_id=700 (LOTS OF PICS) PlanetCatfish profile says they do well as juveniles in only fresh water but need more and more salt as they mature until they are on at least brackish to full sea water levels of salt, so armed with all this info, Margie should DEFINITELY return this fish for a refund since it should NOT have been sold to her in the first place. As far as the proper scientific name, I'm not sure, since all three reputable sources each have it listed with a different scientific name. I'm leaning towards Fishbase but simply not 100% sure. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of sevenspringss Sent: Friday, August 28, 2009 5:42 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Question - Silver Tip Shark Alright, then that's the one I just got done mentioning -- Jordan's Catfish. That's the problem again, with common names, as unless a scientific name is given it's easy to come up with a number of different fish each having the same common name -- unless one knows what they're looking for. The two long "whiskers" are the ones on the top lip, but the others aren't really that short. Even the scientific name can be confusing sometimes, when ichthyologists redescribe these fish. In this case, the name is Arius jordani (hence: "Jordan's" Catfish), but it has at least three other synonyms -- Arius seemanni, sciades seemanni and Hexanematichthys seemanni. Other erroneous websites brought me to a Red Tail Catfish, a spotted Pimelodus Catfish and several other "so-called" Silver-Tip Sharks by various other names. Ray --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Margie" <MargiePhelps@...> wrote: > > He has two long "whiskers" and some very tiny/short whiskers also, plus > has silver tips on all his fins. And looks like the Silver Tip Shark > and/or the Columbian shark on the 'net. He has a very white flat belly. > > -------Original Message------- > > From: sevenspringss > Date: 8/28/2009 5:26:20 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Question - Silver Tip Shark > > May I presume then, that your fish has long "whiskers" (barbels) -- > one pair on the upper lip and two pair on the lower? I hadn't seen > any mention of this feature here, which would be the first thing that > would noticably separate it from most other fish. If so, then this is > a catfish (Jordan's Catfish); it can grow to 20" in the aquarium, if the tank is large enough. > Be careful when you handle him, as his dorsal spines are toxic. This > fish really doesn't belong in a freshwater tank, as it's a brackish water fish. > Ray >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 42973	From: moiragrubb2000	Date: 8/28/2009
Subject: Re: oscar ill

--- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, sevenspringss@... wrote: > my problem at the moment is isolating him how long would the epsom salts take to work do you think . the longer he is going without eating the more worried im getting could you also answer my question on how much percent of water safe to take out if i was doing 2 to 3 a week cheers mo > Mo, At first thought, I too figured this problem may have had something to > do with the freeze dried food, but that seemed too "obvious," so I was > looking for possible water quality issues. You're apparently maintaining this > aquarium properly though, so we come right back to this food. For treating > with Epsom Salts, try using 1 Tbp per 5 gallons, if it seems he's constipated > -- and if you can isolate him. Pleco's don't like too much table salt and > I'm not sure if they take kindly to Epsom Salts either. For treating initial > stages of some internal issues, some hobbyists increase the amount of Epsom > Salts slowly to 1 tsp per gallon (or more) -- that's 1 2/3 Tsp per 5 > gallons -- but the fish must be observed that he doesn't get stressed. Ray > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 42974	From: Margie	Date: 8/28/2009
Subject: Re: Question - Silver Tip Shark

I just had a close look at his coloring. For the most part he looks gray, but when the light hits him just right his color is a bronze. I wish he would hold still to get a pix of him, but as I said before he is constantly on the move. IS this normal for this type of fish. I really think he is the prettiest in the tank. -------Original Message------- From: sevenspringss Date: 8/28/2009 6:42:46 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Question - Silver Tip Shark Alright, then that's the one I just got done mentioning -- Jordan's Catfish. That's the problem again, with common names, as unless a scientific name is given it's easy to come up with a number of different fish each having the same common name -- unless one knows what they're looking for. The two long "whiskers" are the ones on the top lip, but the others aren't really that short. Even the scientific name can be confusing sometimes, when ichthyologists redescribe these fish. In this case, the name is Arius jordani (hence: Jordan's" Catfish), but it has at least three other synonyms -- Arius seemanni, sciades seemanni and Hexanematichthys seemanni. Other erroneous websites brought me to a Red Tail Catfish, a spotted Pimelodus Catfish and several other "so-called" Silver-Tip Sharks by various other names. Ray --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Margie" <MargiePhelps@...> wrote: > > He has two long "whiskers" and some very tiny/short whiskers also, plus > has silver tips on all his fins. And looks like the Silver Tip Shark and/or > the Columbian shark on the 'net. He has a very white flat belly. > > -------Original Message------- > > From: sevenspringss > Date: 8/28/2009 5:26:20 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Question - Silver Tip Shark > > May I presume then, that your fish has long "whiskers" (barbels) -- one pair > on the upper lip and two pair on the lower? I hadn't seen any mention of > this feature here, which would be the first thing that would noticably > separate it from most other fish. If so, then this is a catfish (Jordan's > Catfish); it can grow to 20" in the aquarium, if the tank is large enough. > Be careful when you handle him, as his dorsal spines are toxic. This fish > really doesn't belong in a freshwater tank, as it's a brackish water fish. > Ray > > > > > > , > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > ------------------------------------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the home page. Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com to receive the digest, which includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com for the No E-Mail option where you will still be able to read messages on the group and post replies. Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com to receive individual e-mails Yahoo! Groups Links [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 42975	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 8/28/2009
Subject: Re: oscar ill

You should soak freeze dried food prior to feeding. This helps to prevent it from swelling in the fish's body, which may be causing the problems you have with your oscar now. Sometimes, if I am feeding only a small amount as a treat, I may not soak it first, but always do if it is a meal. \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of moiragrubb2000 Sent: Friday, August 28, 2009 4:21 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: oscar ill --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Steve Szabo" <steve@...> wrote: >sorry it was late at night that was a nitrite reading the sharks are red tailed and i will be moving them shortly i did think there might be a blockage so i am going to try him with some veggies only trouble is if i cant get him to eat will let you know what happens but i take it you would advise soaking the freeze dried in future i had already decided to do this but you would think they would tell you this on packet i usually soak freeze drier brine shrimp and tubiflex worms thanks mo > Mo, > > Try to feed him some vegetables. If you have not been soaking the freeze dried stuff before feeding, he may have a blockage, and vegetables will help him clear it out. > > \\Steve// > > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of moira grubb > Sent: Thursday, August 27, 2009 5:32 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] oscar ill > > cheers bill the first thing i did was a water change and have been trying him with different foods chicken prawns etc never tried earthworms so i will try that next he is in a 5 foot tank i do regular water changes and filter maintenance when i was watching him earlier it looked like he had a sort of twitching of his head a kind of jerking although he might just be trying to tell me to stop staring at him lol i do actually feed him quite a varied diet but only introduced the freeze dried stuff about 7 wks ago which he loved was just worried this might have caused a problem  is there any medication you could suggest he is definately under the weather and not his usual self thanks again mo > > --- On Thu, 27/8/09, bill 1433 <warrenprint@...> wrote: > > From: bill 1433 <warrenprint@...> > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] oscar ill > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Date: Thursday, 27 August, 2009, 10:01 PM > > Hi Mo! > > My name is Bill and a few thousand years ago (just kidding, but along time) I raised Oscars.  Many people are of the firm belief that Oscars are real pigs and will eat darn near anything.  While that may be true to a certain extent, they do like a change of menu from time to time and the same diet without any variation at all is not good for any fish including the Discus! > > While we are talking about the front door, lets go around the back door for a moment.  The fishes "bodily functions" are all in proper working order, I would assume? > > Now for Oscars house?  Does he has a large enough tank with plenty of room?  One Oscar= 1 55 gallon tank at least, a 100 would be better if tank mates are present. > > Next, how about your water changes and general upkeep of the tank?  Try a 25% water change first as well as a change in diet.  Have you ever fed him small, good old fashioned earthworms?  Oscars love them.  To an Oscar, space is the big thing.  What is the size of the tank, not just gallons but physical size?  A standard 55 at 4 feet long is fine for 1 Oscar but with tankmates?  A 5 footer that is about 18 inches wide to allow him room to swim and turn around would be better and a 6 foot job at a 125 gallons would be the best. > > Bill > > > > --- On Thu, 8/27/09, moiragrubb2000 <moiragrubb2000@ yahoo.co. uk> wrote: > > > > From: moiragrubb2000 <moiragrubb2000@ yahoo.co. uk> > Subject: [AquaticLife] oscar ill > To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com > Date: Thursday, August 27, 2009, 4:25 PM > > hi i have been a member of this group for a while and find it interesting and informative just reading the e mails this is the first time ive had to ask for help i have an oscar  he is in an established tank had him about 4 years he is about 6 yrs old. this last few days he is not eating usually comes up to hand feed all water paramaters fine and cant see anything physically wrong but he definately not his usual self he shares his tank with 2 red sharks and a pleco all been in tank 4 yrs other fish fine only thing thats changed is i have been feeding him freeze dried river shrimp and krill since he has took a liking to it along with frozen blood worm and cichlid pellets not all at once obviously could it have anything to do with freeze dried food would appreciate any feedback ,suggestions on what i csn try as completely at a loss have put in some paragon oxygen tonic at the moment tonight he did make an effort to pick up some gravel and throw it at his > > tank mates but not interested in eating, any help would be appreciated, thanks, mo >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 42976	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 8/28/2009
Subject: Re: Are my posts going through?

Okay I've already done all the above ;) So basically it's a waiting game. I still had the cycled HOB but it's just a small filter for a 10 gallon, it was the rena filstar xp 4 that clogged and had a die off of nitrifying bacteria. I've been cleaning it more often since then, apparently it clogs up easily in the 55 gallon but not the 125 gallon, which I think is odd... Anyways, the tank is clear again, it was starting to clear up this morning and is already clear now, looks like a new tank, LOL. I will test the ammonia but I'm pretty sure from the way the fish are acting that it's not that high, I did a 20% PWC this morning as well, so I'm not too worried about the ammonia levels at this exact moment, all the fish are acting happy and normal and the snails are traveling and the shrimp are swimming again, so I think all will be well now *sigh of relief*. I was frantic for a couple of days when I pulled a dead fish out every morning this week :( I lost all my adult guppies and platy's and danio's. I still have all my guppy fry, snails, shrimp (only a couple of casualties of shrimp and didn't lose any snails at all, hardy little guys), and I have all my pleco's and cory's still. Sorry Pam, this just means I'll have to get more plume tail platy's from you in the future, LOL. Amber Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > > > Add some cycled filter media from one of your other tanks to get this tank > cycling again. This was the tank that got some nasty water from the recent > boiler replacement at your condos... right? > > You are running fresh carbon in it also.. right? > > Double up on the dose of dechlor... mainly to add more heavy metal > treatment > since the new plumbing, if copper pipes, could possibly be leaching a > little > more copper than normal and inverts don't like copper. > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right > side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On > Behalf Of Amber Berglund > Sent: Friday, August 28, 2009 5:10 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Are my posts going through? > > Okay, well here was my most recent post, sent last night. > > pH: 6, not sure how that happened, perhaps all the water changes? > Ammonia: Nearly 1 ppm > Nitrite: 0 > Nitrate: 0 > KH: 1dh at most > GH: 4 dh... perhaps it's time to add crushed coral again, I had some > in the > soil but it doesn't seem to be breaking down like the instructions say it > will on the walstad info sites I've read... > > I think my tank is cycling again for sure, the filter issues must have > killed off my bacteria. > At least with my lower pH the ammonia isn't so toxic, but the snails and > shrimp don't like the lower pH I think... they act different, way > different. > > Now any suggestions? I'm going to do a filter cleaning to get rid of the > build up and add the crushed coral back in the filter, so it will require > refilling the tank, so another PWC of about 15% will be done. > > My water is MUCH clearer today, so I think my situation is already fixing > itself now that I get my post through ;) LOL. > > Amber > > Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > > > > > > Only one thing to say. YAHOOOOOOOOOO-OOOOOO! A LONG thing but at least > > I stuck to my word this time. > > > > Ooops.. by adding that follow-up sentence, I broke my word again. > > Darn! :-P > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>> > (Links to any articles referenced in > > above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels > > and also under Archives by Year, Month) > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On Behalf Of Amber Berglund > > Sent: Friday, August 28, 2009 3:42 PM > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > Subject: Re: RE: [AquaticLife] Are my posts going through? > > > > Weird I've been posting to the changing water thread with questions > > and thought I was getting ignored. They show as sent to the group on my > end... > > guess I will repost at lunch. > > > > Amber > > > > On Aug 28, 2009 10:50 AM, "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" > > <GoldLenny@... <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com> > <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com>> > > wrote: > > > > I just looked at the Group's messages section and the last thread I > > see where you've posted was on 8/25 in your Mystery Snail Eggs thread > > and then this thread today... so apparently your emails are going off > > into a Yahoo Black Hole. > > > > Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>> > (Links to any articles referenced in > > ab... > > > > So far no one seems to be offering any advice on my tank issues and > > whether I'm right or not... I've... > > > > > > > > ------------------------------------ > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. > ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> > PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to > the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the > SUBJECT > LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- > <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. > > If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of unsubscribing, you > can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the > home page. > > Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:aquaticlife-digest%40yahoogroups.com> to receive the digest, which > includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email > > Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:aquaticlife-nomail%40yahoogroups.com> for the No E-Mail option > where > you will still be able to read messages on the group and post replies. > > Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:aquaticlife-normal%40yahoogroups.com> to receive individual > e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 42977	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 8/28/2009
Subject: Re: oscar ill

Mo, I do not recall if you had stated how much water you change when you do a water change, but, since it seems your water parameters are not out of whack, if you go to multiple water changes in a week, change the amount to 10% and the amount of substrate you can clean in the time it takes for you to remove the 10%. If you follow the advice of using the Epsom salt, when you do the water change, first top off your tank to the normal level, wait a few minutes for the water to mix, then do the water change, adding the appropriate amount of salt for the amount of water you are adding. This will keep your dosage level. \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of moiragrubb2000 Sent: Friday, August 28, 2009 5:56 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: oscar ill --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Steve Szabo" <steve@...> wrote: >one of my posts appears to have dissapeared so just to fill in the gaps my nitrate reading is 20 I clean filters weekly alternating each one gravel clean 20 to 25 per cent at least once a week. Intend to up this if I was doing 2 to 3 a week how much water would I take out i have never had any water issues with this tank and dont want to upset the balance by taking out to much water. My problem at the moment is as my oscar is not eating i cant get him to take veggies i did try him today, is there anything i can put in the tank i really think it has got aomething to do with the freeze dried food as i have just introduced it lately the problem was that he was preferring that to his usual food how often should you feed freeze dried foods. Im very gratefull of all the replys sorry my posts are a bit disjointed but new to this thanks again appreciate any more advice mo > Mo, > > Try to feed him some vegetables. If you have not been soaking the freeze dried stuff before feeding, he may have a blockage, and vegetables will help him clear it out. > > \\Steve// > > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of moira grubb > Sent: Thursday, August 27, 2009 5:32 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] oscar ill > > cheers bill the first thing i did was a water change and have been trying him with different foods chicken prawns etc never tried earthworms so i will try that next he is in a 5 foot tank i do regular water changes and filter maintenance when i was watching him earlier it looked like he had a sort of twitching of his head a kind of jerking although he might just be trying to tell me to stop staring at him lol i do actually feed him quite a varied diet but only introduced the freeze dried stuff about 7 wks ago which he loved was just worried this might have caused a problem  is there any medication you could suggest he is definately under the weather and not his usual self thanks again mo > > --- On Thu, 27/8/09, bill 1433 <warrenprint@...> wrote: > > From: bill 1433 <warrenprint@...> > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] oscar ill > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Date: Thursday, 27 August, 2009, 10:01 PM > > Hi Mo! > > My name is Bill and a few thousand years ago (just kidding, but along time) I raised Oscars.  Many people are of the firm belief that Oscars are real pigs and will eat darn near anything.  While that may be true to a certain extent, they do like a change of menu from time to time and the same diet without any variation at all is not good for any fish including the Discus! > > While we are talking about the front door, lets go around the back door for a moment.  The fishes "bodily functions" are all in proper working order, I would assume? > > Now for Oscars house?  Does he has a large enough tank with plenty of room?  One Oscar= 1 55 gallon tank at least, a 100 would be better if tank mates are present. > > Next, how about your water changes and general upkeep of the tank?  Try a 25% water change first as well as a change in diet.  Have you ever fed him small, good old fashioned earthworms?  Oscars love them.  To an Oscar, space is the big thing.  What is the size of the tank, not just gallons but physical size?  A standard 55 at 4 feet long is fine for 1 Oscar but with tankmates?  A 5 footer that is about 18 inches wide to allow him room to swim and turn around would be better and a 6 foot job at a 125 gallons would be the best. > > Bill > > > > --- On Thu, 8/27/09, moiragrubb2000 <moiragrubb2000@ yahoo.co. uk> wrote: > > > > From: moiragrubb2000 <moiragrubb2000@ yahoo.co. uk> > Subject: [AquaticLife] oscar ill > To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com > Date: Thursday, August 27, 2009, 4:25 PM > > hi i have been a member of this group for a while and find it interesting and informative just reading the e mails this is the first time ive had to ask for help i have an oscar  he is in an established tank had him about 4 years he is about 6 yrs old. this last few days he is not eating usually comes up to hand feed all water paramaters fine and cant see anything physically wrong but he definately not his usual self he shares his tank with 2 red sharks and a pleco all been in tank 4 yrs other fish fine only thing thats changed is i have been feeding him freeze dried river shrimp and krill since he has took a liking to it along with frozen blood worm and cichlid pellets not all at once obviously could it have anything to do with freeze dried food would appreciate any feedback ,suggestions on what i csn try as completely at a loss have put in some paragon oxygen tonic at the moment tonight he did make an effort to pick up some gravel and throw it at his > > tank mates but not interested in eating, any help would be appreciated, thanks, mo >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 42978	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 8/28/2009
Subject: Re: PLEASE help - strange thing on goldfish

As Lenny has said, there is no sign of anchor worm on your fish. I do not know what may have caused the lesion, but it is that you need to treat, and my first route would be the salt method that Lenny mentions. \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of silvercat151 Sent: Friday, August 28, 2009 4:21 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: PLEASE help - strange thing on goldfish Please see this http://www.aquariacentral.com/forums/showthread.php?t=204402 which has photos of my fish, and I will be posting photos which I took at Wal-Mart today of other infected fish with visible trailing things. This is new stock since I bought my fish, which was sold to me as having a 'wound' . I stopped using Pimafix some time ago, as this seemed to have cleared.It has since returned. Last night I started using Parasite Clear. If you read my posts on the above thread, you will see the full story and agreement of an experienced person there that this is a case of Anchorworm. Thanks! --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@...> wrote: > > Where did you find this information that says this is the "start of anchor > worm"? > > Anchor worms are visible to the naked eye. Do you see an anchor worm > "anchored" onto the spot or anywhere else on the fish? If not, it certainly > could have been an infected area left over by a previous anchor worm that > was removed, but in that case, it should still be treated as a secondary > infection, not for a parasite. > > See this page for pictures of Anchor Worms. > > http://web.archive.org/web/20051217230513/http://www.fishpalace.org/dise ase. > html OR > > http://preview.tinyurl.com/2m83ee > > Scroll down about 3/4th's of the page to get to the section about Anchor > Worms to see a few good pictures of these external parasites. > > What are you doing as far as treatment now? I remember you were using > PimaFix which I explained was not the proper medication but you haven't > replied with any other information until now... at least not that I have > seen. > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right > side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) > > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On > Behalf Of rebecca may > Sent: Friday, August 28, 2009 10:14 AM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: PLEASE help - strange thing on goldfish > > Actually, after looking round the internet I have identified this as the > start of anchorworm, which this fish and, now I have looked at other > recently stocked fish in the local Wal-Mart where this came from, seem to > have. This was the only fish with it at the time and I was told by the staff > that it was an injury. >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 42979	From: moiragrubb2000	Date: 8/28/2009
Subject: Re: oscar ill

--- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Steve Szabo" <steve@...> wrote: >cheers steve really appreciate all the feedback im getting hopefully i will be able to resolve this situation soon mo > You should soak freeze dried food prior to feeding. This helps to prevent it from swelling in the fish's body, which may be causing the problems you have with your oscar now. Sometimes, if I am feeding only a small amount as a treat, I may not soak it first, but always do if it is a meal. > > \\Steve// > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of moiragrubb2000 > Sent: Friday, August 28, 2009 4:21 AM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: oscar ill > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Steve Szabo" <steve@> wrote: > >sorry it was late at night that was a nitrite reading the sharks are red tailed and i will be moving them shortly i did think there might be a blockage so i am going to try him with some veggies only trouble is if i cant get him to eat will let you know what happens but i take it you would advise soaking the freeze dried in future i had already decided to do this but you would think they would tell you this on packet i usually soak freeze drier brine shrimp and tubiflex worms thanks mo > > Mo, > > > > Try to feed him some vegetables. If you have not been soaking the freeze dried stuff before feeding, he may have a blockage, and vegetables will help him clear it out. > > > > \\Steve// > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of moira grubb > > Sent: Thursday, August 27, 2009 5:32 PM > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] oscar ill > > > > cheers bill the first thing i did was a water change and have been trying him with different foods chicken prawns etc never tried earthworms so i will try that next he is in a 5 foot tank i do regular water changes and filter maintenance when i was watching him earlier it looked like he had a sort of twitching of his head a kind of jerking although he might just be trying to tell me to stop staring at him lol i do actually feed him quite a varied diet but only introduced the freeze dried stuff about 7 wks ago which he loved was just worried this might have caused a problem  is there any medication you could suggest he is definately under the weather and not his usual self thanks again mo > > > > --- On Thu, 27/8/09, bill 1433 <warrenprint@> wrote: > > > > From: bill 1433 <warrenprint@> > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] oscar ill > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > Date: Thursday, 27 August, 2009, 10:01 PM > > > > Hi Mo! > > > > My name is Bill and a few thousand years ago (just kidding, but along time) I raised Oscars.  Many people are of the firm belief that Oscars are real pigs and will eat darn near anything.  While that may be true to a certain extent, they do like a change of menu from time to time and the same diet without any variation at all is not good for any fish including the Discus! > > > > While we are talking about the front door, lets go around the back door for a moment.  The fishes "bodily functions" are all in proper working order, I would assume? > > > > Now for Oscars house?  Does he has a large enough tank with plenty of room?  One Oscar= 1 55 gallon tank at least, a 100 would be better if tank mates are present. > > > > Next, how about your water changes and general upkeep of the tank?  Try a 25% water change first as well as a change in diet.  Have you ever fed him small, good old fashioned earthworms?  Oscars love them.  To an Oscar, space is the big thing.  What is the size of the tank, not just gallons but physical size?  A standard 55 at 4 feet long is fine for 1 Oscar but with tankmates?  A 5 footer that is about 18 inches wide to allow him room to swim and turn around would be better and a 6 foot job at a 125 gallons would be the best. > > > > Bill > > > > > > > > --- On Thu, 8/27/09, moiragrubb2000 <moiragrubb2000@ yahoo.co. uk> wrote: > > > > > > > > From: moiragrubb2000 <moiragrubb2000@ yahoo.co. uk> > > Subject: [AquaticLife] oscar ill > > To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com > > Date: Thursday, August 27, 2009, 4:25 PM > > > > hi i have been a member of this group for a while and find it interesting and informative just reading the e mails this is the first time ive had to ask for help i have an oscar  he is in an established tank had him about 4 years he is about 6 yrs old. this last few days he is not eating usually comes up to hand feed all water paramaters fine and cant see anything physically wrong but he definately not his usual self he shares his tank with 2 red sharks and a pleco all been in tank 4 yrs other fish fine only thing thats changed is i have been feeding him freeze dried river shrimp and krill since he has took a liking to it along with frozen blood worm and cichlid pellets not all at once obviously could it have anything to do with freeze dried food would appreciate any feedback ,suggestions on what i csn try as completely at a loss have put in some paragon oxygen tonic at the moment tonight he did make an effort to pick up some gravel and throw it at his > > > > tank mates but not interested in eating, any help would be appreciated, thanks, mo > > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 42980	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 8/28/2009
Subject: Re: My Tailless Fishy

If there is tissue left from the missing fin, it can regenerate, however, if there is no fin tissue left, the fin will not regenerate. Since the top half of the caudal is not regenerating, it must have been removed too far into the caudal peduncle to regenerate. \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of David Keymel Sent: Friday, August 28, 2009 8:48 AM To: AquaticLife Subject: [AquaticLife] My Tailless Fishy OK. its been a few weeks now, I have been using malifix to help the fin regrowth. The poor guy is apparently only growing half his tail back. The bottom half it seems. the rest will not grow. I am not sure what to do next. the poor guys been sitting on the bottom of the tank for a long while now, he moves around on his own but is never free swimming. I tried to coax him into a swim the other night but not much luck. i think hes getting stiff from sitting around. His body has a bit of a curl to it. Is there anything else i should try or is it time to release him from this torment to fishy heaven? I feel really bad for the little guy. Not that i ever want to really do this, i am trying to prepare myself. I know this subject has come up before, and its a grim one, but i found this website: http://www.ratemyfishtank.com/articles/81 I know some of the issues talked about here before show up on this site, and some others that have not. In particular i was looking into Tricaine Methanesulfonate (TMS) since it seems like the best choice for a regular home hobbyist. Please advise. Thanks you!

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 42981	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 8/28/2009
Subject: Re: Question - Silver Tip Shark

Lenny, Margie's messages are coming through fine with me, even via VPN over a Verizon EVDO connection. If this is only happening to Margie's messages, I have not a clue as to what is going on, or where it is getting munged. If you do not already, use the setting in outlook to save messages on the server for a day or two, so you can go up open the server via the ISP's web mail connection to check the messages there, to see if they are munged when they reach your ISP's mail server. If they are OK there, look at you're A/V solution--shut it down from scanning e-mail, or roll the definitions back a couple of days, if you can, and see if this makes a difference--meanwhile, you'll need to keep this thread going, and Margie answering, since this will not fixed messages already munged. \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Lenny V. aka GoldLenny Sent: Friday, August 28, 2009 5:17 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com; 'Margie' Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Question - Silver Tip Shark Well, something in your computer, security software or something is changing the formatting of your emails and removing Paragraph separators, line breaks, inserting line breaks, etc.. Do you use webmail at the ATT.net website or do you use Outlook, Outlook Express, Thunderbird, etc., to read and reply to your email? There are some settings in these various website and software that can affect some things but not usually to the degree that yours is doing right now. Maybe \\Steve// will chime in if he's seen this before. I've seen lots of weird formatting issues in email but never this one. I am also sending you a copy of this email off-list and attaching a copy of a Print-Screen from my end so you can see how even the email you just sent is all garbled looking, with sentences ending in the middle of a line and then restarting on the next line. This is only happening to emails that I am receiving from you through the group so I'm not sure what is causing it. Anyhow... back to the fish... Always, ALWAYS, when interested in a certain fish, write down the common name, the scientific name, if available, a description of the fish and what ever info the store has about the fish as far as tank size, fish size, etc.... maybe even take a picture of the fish. Then come out here and post the info and picture and you will get more appropriate advice from people that are not trying to sell you something... just honest, unbiased information. If there is only one fish left that you want, put a deposit down and have them hold it for you... then come do your research and if they have the fish mislabeled or have inaccurate info about tank or fish size, then they would have to give you back your money... or at the very least, a full store credit... or use the squeaky wheel method until they do. I recently had to raise 40 kinds of hell.. heck, maybe 50 kinds of hell inside of my local Sprint Store to get them to remove an overcharge from my phone bill. After 10 minutes of raising hell and after they asked me to leave the store and I refused until I got to speak to the manager, I was quickly taken care of and the over charge was removed. Of course, I only had to do this because the AR person on the phone was too incompetent to do it over the phone. (AR = Anal Retentive. LOL) After it was all over, I chuckled and told them it would have been a lot simpler to us all if they would have just did the right thing in the first place. The manager agreed... although in the back of his head, he was probably calling me a lot worse than a squeaky wheel or an AR customer. LOL Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Margie Sent: Friday, August 28, 2009 3:48 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Question - Silver Tip Shark Yes, it is for sure the Columbian Shark..... Sorry And I am not sure on the other two breeds. I just know I asked for fish that do not grow to be very large. And that is what I got. I would the name of the catfish if I saw it again. It did start with a Pl-------- something I am not sure. The Pleco is a common one. Was not aware that the "shark" was of the catfish family, till I looked it up on the Internet. And then I saw his tentacles and realized it what it was The price at Pet's Mart on the catfish were 3.99 each and they are long and silvery to almost clear. The pleco was 2.99. Maybe the price will help you. Other then that I know nothing more. I have not had any problems with my software or my replies or new posts. What is below is not what I rec'd or what I sent. I do not know what happen. It does look a mess doesn't it. Thank you -------Original Message------- From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny Date: 8/28/2009 4:32:18 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Question - Silver Tip Shark ARGGHHH.. you didn't answer any of my questions. Do you know what kind of "2 catfish" that you have or what species of Pleco? Did you look at the pictures of the Columbian Shark to see if that is what you have? Re-read my reply and let me know more answers since I could not give you my answers without knowing the correct information. Is it some kind of software on your computer that causes your replies to lose all formatting? My reply was separated into various paragraphs, etc., and in your reply, it's all one big run-on sentence. Does this happen to you with all of your email replies? Many of us in this group are also computer competent and maybe we can help with this as well. ;-) Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Margie Sent: Friday, August 28, 2009 2:45 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Question - Silver Tip Shark OK, thank you for the info. I will see what I can do to remedy this problem -------Original Message------- From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny Date: 08/28/09 15:36:40 To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Question - Silver Tip Shark I'm answering as I read so bare with me. You certainly CAN NOT add more fish. In all likelihood, you are severely overstocked already. What kind of "2 catfish" do you have? The Pleco is also a catfish... do you know what species it is? As far as the Silver Tip Shark, I did not recognize this common name but I found some references to a "better" common name being Columbian Shark. Look at the pictures associated with this Mongabay profile and let us know if this is what you have. http://fish.mongabay.com/species/Arius_seemani.html If it is, then as you will see, this species of catfish... (so now you're up to four catfish in the tank) ;-)... actually grows to 24", not as large in captivity, likely due to being kept in undersized tanks and suffering from stunting issues. Even for a 15" fast swimming fish like this one, you should have at least a 8' to 10' long tank so your 55G is NOT nearly big enough. Print out the Mongabay profile which recommends a bare minimum of 100-125G of water just for this single fish. Further, this fish is a brackish water (somewhat salty water) fish which makes them even less compatible with your other fish and should be kept in groups, as you know, so really, for someone wanting to keep a shoal of these fish, they should have a 500G+ sized tank... maybe a little smaller if they do frequent PWC's and tank maintenance. As far as I know there are NO real "sharks" that live their lives in fresh water. Most of the fresh water fish that have the word "shark" as part of their name are usually from the catfish family. There are hundreds of catfish species with the smallest growing to only 1" and the largest growing to over 6' (SIX FEET) long so without knowing your species, it's hard to give any suggestions or advice. If your Pleco (also a catfish) is a common pleco, they grow to 18"+ and get too big for your 55G also. There are some dwarf species that stay under 6" but we would need to know what species you have before saying yeah or nay on the pleco... same for the other "2 catfish". You may be able to keep the pleco, if it's a common pleco at least until it grows to around 6" and then you would have to trade him in on a new baby common pleco or switch to a species of algae eater that stays smaller, like a Clown Pleco or Bristle Nose Pleco. Many LFS (local fish stores) will do the trade in thing. Most PetsMarts will not do this. So.. that leaves the 6 Tiger Barbs as the only certain species... hoping that one is right, of course. ;-) Here is the Mongabay profile on Tiger Barbs (Puntius tetrazona)... http://fish.mongabay.com/species/Puntius_tetrazona.html Look at the SC section (Suggested Companions) for the most likely fish to be suitable for being kept with this species. You will also see that these fish grow to around 3" each so these six fish would need at least 18G of your 55G total volume. This leaves you with 37G of water volume for your remaining fish. If you get a dwarf pleco, it would need around 10G of water volume so you would have 27G of water volume left over for addition fish that are mentioned in the SC section above. I'm presuming your other "2 catfish" are not going to be compatible with your tank. Please, in the future, do your own research or ask out here BEFORE buying fish so you can be more assured of getting fish that will work with your tank, water parameters and other fish. Asking after the fact makes life much harder for you and the fish. If you are an impulsive fish buyer, leave your purse and/or wallet in the car and only bring enough money to buy what you need, when you go into the PetsMart or LFS. ;-) Having a plan and working within that plan will bring back that warm and fuzzy fish feeling. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Margie Sent: Friday, August 28, 2009 1:22 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Question - Silver Tip Shark I have a 55 G tank with 6 Tiger Barbs, 2 catfish, 1 Pleco and this Silver Tip Shark. I have read this breed of Shark is not good in a 55 g tank, plus they need more of them, at least 3 in a shoal. They grow very large. This one runs the tank length all day long, he zips across, then up and over again in the same pattern. And that he should be returned to the store Pets Mart says he is ok with what I have. And I know not all at P.Mart know a lot about fish and their habits. But then not everyone giving advice on the 'net knows either. So, Lenny I know you do. So what is right? Is this Shark ok? Plus he looks more like a catfish. Is he in the catfish family? And I have a comment. When I tried having goldies and they were not to be due to parasites that totally wiped them out and now I have gone back to the tropicals. With the goldies I was getting brown algae also. When at Pet Mart's I asked what would get rid of brown algae, would a algae eater do it He said no, I asked if the pleco would, he said no. But I bought a Pleco anyway and guess what he has cleaned all the brown algae away. So they do suck the algae up. HE is a happy little sucker. I do not plan to add to the fish I have unless I need that one more Shark., I would go 2, but not three. Not if they grow that large. Are the fish I have a good balance? I have had tanks for 50 years and never had troubles before like the goldies. And the goldies have made me totally paranoid now and I don't want to feel like that again. I had tanks and never really worried about what I had or if they were ok together. But It seems the more I read the less secure I feel about fish. I want that warm and fuzzy feeling back again.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 42982	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 8/28/2009
Subject: Re: My Tailless Fishy

I have seen some fish survive even without fins, as long as there isn't another fish in the tank picking on them. My parent's had an upside down catfish that got stuck in a fake decoration and had to be removed and had lost it's fins in the process (think they rubbed off or maybe it was a bacterial issue), but it lived several years longer. Amber Steve Szabo wrote: > > > If there is tissue left from the missing fin, it can regenerate, > however, if there is no fin tissue left, the fin will not regenerate. > Since the top half of the caudal is not regenerating, it must have been > removed too far into the caudal peduncle to regenerate. > > \\Steve// > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] > On Behalf Of David Keymel > Sent: Friday, August 28, 2009 8:48 AM > To: AquaticLife > Subject: [AquaticLife] My Tailless Fishy > > OK. its been a few weeks now, I have been using malifix to help the fin > regrowth. The poor guy is apparently only growing half his tail back. > The > bottom half it seems. the rest will not grow. I am not sure what to do > next. > the poor guys been sitting on the bottom of the tank for a long while > now, > he moves around on his own but is never free swimming. I tried to coax > him > into a swim the other night but not much luck. i think hes getting stiff > from sitting around. His body has a bit of a curl to it. Is there > anything > else i should try or is it time to release him from this torment to > fishy > heaven? I feel really bad for the little guy. > Not that i ever want to really do this, i am trying to prepare myself. I > know this subject has come up before, and its a grim one, but i found > this > website: > > http://www.ratemyfishtank.com/articles/81 > <http://www.ratemyfishtank.com/articles/81> > > I know some of the issues talked about here before show up on this site, > and > some others that have not. In particular i was looking into Tricaine > Methanesulfonate (TMS) since it seems like the best choice for a regular > home hobbyist. > > Please advise. Thanks you! > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 42983	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 8/28/2009
Subject: Re: Cycling and Nitrite

You mentioned the possibility of using Amquel. Should you choose to do so, please realize that Amquel is no longer supplied to Kordon by its originator, whose products are now sold through Hikari USA (www.hikariusa.com) and many have reported problems when using the newer Amquel Plus product. Also be aware that when using many products of this sort, you should not use a Nessler's test kit to measure ammonia, but a salicylate ammonia test kit. You can easily tell which you have by the color that is generated for your readings. Nessler's generates a yellow to brown color, while salicylate kits generate a green color. Test kits are often not labeled clearly enough for the average bear to determine which kit they are getting, so look at the color chart before buying. The problem is that the Nessler kit will give you a false positive reading since it measures total ammonia (NH3 and NH4+), not just the toxic form of ammonia (NH3). Also, the Winkler oxygen test will give a lower reading, should you be testing for oxygen levels in your tank, pond, etc. There are also certain chemicals and dyes used in aquaria that should not be used if you are using an ammonia transforming chemical in your tank. Be sure to check the data sheet of any product like this you use for contraindications. For those of you who are really interested, Nessler is really spelled Neßler That would be Ne<Latin small letter sharp s>ler, which is the German spelling. \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of robbrouse Sent: Friday, August 28, 2009 6:56 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Cycling and Nitrite Yes sorry nitrites is was at 5.0 for several days. I will NOT be adding fish this weekend as planned. Too much time and money involved to kill helpless creatures at this point. I started another tap water base line and checked it twice and I do have nitrate in my water as well 5.0 So my tap water base line is. Ammonia 0 Nitr(I)tes .50 Niotr(A)te 5.0 Ph 7.8 KH 4. - NEW Test Kit GH 11 - New test Kit Did all the test 3 times to make sure reading were right. I will be getting the API Water Conditioner soon I have Aqueon right now. I also have some doubts about the cycle as of now as we have found out it's not ready yet. That's is why we test out water to make sure it's safe. I did go though and remove the carbon today. Now non of the filters have carbon in it. I left the bro wheels as well as the Bio-Max Rings in the filters. The article l I read did not say anything about removing the carbon. Bit it is done as of now. When I removed the Marineland I decided to cut it open and see and there was nothing but black carbon in there.. The same with the canister filet. No the plants are all fake. I have been looking into live plants but I do remember not to use them for the fishless cycle. A side note I was unable to cut the media like you did on your blog. I might just snag some filter media and use it. As you know the Marineland filter has baskets so to speak I could add carbon to that if needed Recap. Right now carbon is out. Ammonia is .25 and was dose this morning at 8:00 ish. Nitrite Is still running high. I removed all the carbon from the filters. I had a neighbor let me borrow some Amquel it did remove the nitrite but not the ammonia so I really don't see that as a good product to use. I filled a gallon jug and did my base line and then added 1 drop of ammonia and tested again the nitrite was 0 but the ammonia was still .5. I just need to finish a proper fishless cycle. . Again did I miss anything you asked? Id so please let me know. I'm just trying tot do what's right for the fish. If it's 1 week or 6 weeks I'm more than willing to wait it out. Robb --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@...> wrote: > > OK... you need to be certain of what you type or I cannot be certain of how > to answer. > > In the second paragraph, you mention "nitrates spiked (was at 5.0 for > several days)" and I'm presuming you meant nitrItes??? The nitrAtes is the > end product of the nitrogen cycle... at least for the purposes of fishless > cycling a tank. Every day that you add ammonia, that ammonia is converted > to nitrIte. Then the nitrIte is converted to nitrAte. Ammonia and nitrIte > is toxic to fish. NitrAte is only dangerous at very high levels, over > 100ppm but we strive to keep them under 40ppm or even under 20ppm by doing > our weekly 25% PWC's, using plants, etc.... once the tank is stocked and > running. During a fishless cycle, there is NO NEED to do a PWC unless > certain things happen like a stall in the cycling. This usually only > happens with very low KH water, which is not present in your case. > > Your PWC's will NOT raise your nitrItes to any major level... even with a > 100% water change, the nitrItes would only go to 0.5ppm so a 25% PWC would > only raise them to 0.125ppm, which might not even show up on our test kits. > > I'm not sure why your nitrItes spiked from 0.0ppm to 5.0ppm after doing a > PWC unless you shocked the nitrifying bacteria or did not fully dechlor the > water or something. Unless you can replicate that event, I have no clue > what happened. As I've stated, doing a PWC will NOT raise your nitrItes to > 5.0ppm since your tap water only has 0.5ppm of nitrItes in it. It simply is > NOT possible from a chemistry or math perspective... unless something else > happened. > > Please do NOT get fish yet. Continue your fishless cycling for a few more > days and lets make sure things are working properly. DO NOT do any PWC's > while you continue the testing. Lets make sure things are working properly > and then you can plan your next step. > > Remember that I had some doubts about your fishless cycle from the beginning > after you stated that you started from scratch and it was fully cycling in > less than two weeks.... but then I thought that maybe your 0.5ppm of > nitrItes in your tap water might have helped to jump start things. Because > of all of the weird fluctuations in your numbers, I'm very uncertain that > your tank is cycling properly. Unless I see your nitrAtes start to rise, > then I have to suspect something in your filter is removing the > ammonia/nitrite/nitrate or you are not testing properly or your test kit is > bad. This is a chemical process that HAS TO FOLLOW certain physiological > processes, much like math where 1 + 1 + 1 = 3. Even in public schools, 1 + > 1 + 1 still equals 3 and this is the only answer that is correct. With the > nitrogen cycle, ammonia is converted to nitrIte is converted to nitrAte and > then the nitrAte is kept at a safe level by doing PWC's, using plants and/or > having advanced filtration methods where denitrification of the nitrates can > be done. For us, we use PWC's and plants to help keep the nitrates at a > safe level below 40ppm. > > You should have removed the carbon when you started fishless cycling. ALL > of the fishless cycling articles that I've read have this as one of the > steps. I'm not sure it hurts very much but I guess it does or they wouldn't > have this as one of their steps. Further, there is NO NEED to run carbon in > a filter system even with fish, much less without fish in a tank. It's just > another way that the filter companies try to separate people from their > hard-earned money. They must think they are the Guv'ment or something. ;-) > > If your nitrAtes have never been over 10ppm, then either your testing is > compromised or something else is going wrong. For example, in a fully > stocked tank, the fish put out around 5ppm of ammonia each day. After a > week of this and with no plants or filter media to remove the nitrogenous > compounds, the nitrates would be over 20ppm, possibly higher. Since you > were dosing the tank with 5ppm, twice a day, your nitrates should be well > over 40ppm, probably MUCH HIGHER and you are not seeing this figure. Look > at your nitrate test instructions. Were you shaking the bottles prior to > testing? Nitrate bottle #2 says to shake for at least 30 seconds but it > should be more like 1 minute or more if the bottle has been sitting for a > long time. If you did not do this each time, prior to testing, your nitrate > bottle #2 is probably compromised and will NEVER give you accurate readings > again. See if you can pick up another Nitrate test kit and shake it like > crazy before using it and lets make sure your nitrates are correct. > > As far as filter cartridges, MANY of them, usually Tetra or TopFin brand > actually have Zeolite inside of the filter cartridges so many fish keepers > do not even realize this. I don't think that Marineland has started doing > this but then I haven't bought any filter cartridges for any of my HOB's in > many years so I'm not sure what they might be up to. If I know them, they > would have started throwing this crap in their filters to force you to have > to trash the filters and buy new ones more often. > > Last but not least, do you have live plants in your tank? This is another > thing that IS NOT in the instructions for fishless cycling but I've seen > people do it and it only messes up the fishless cycling process. Your > carbon could also be doing this so please remove the carbon for these next > few days. The other reason you should not use carbon when fishless cycling > is that some of your good bacteria would then be growing on the carbon and > since carbon gets thrown away every few weeks, you would be trashing the > bacteria you worked so hard to grow. By not using carbon, it forces the > good bacteria to grow on the Bio-Wheels and other filter media that will be > staying in the tank, not getting trashed. > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right > side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) > > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On > Behalf Of robbrouse > Sent: Friday, August 28, 2009 2:35 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Cycling and Nitrite > > The first small water change was done to see what would happen to the > nitrite level being I have some in my tap. At this point I was at 0 reading > on all and the nitrates has never been above 10. It has been at 5 since the > test Tank cycled (ammonia and nitrates both hot 0) Other than Topping off > the water this is all the water changes that have been done. I guess I > misunderstood about the 2 day before added fish. Should of done it today I > guess. It did take over night for the temp to raise to the 76 that my heater > was set to. > > Like I stated I did not do a water change until both the ammonia spiked > (stayed at 5.00 or greater for several days) and nitrates spiked (was at 5.0 > for several days) and then I did a 10% to see what would happen to the > nitrite level since I do have some in my tap water. > > Ok I don't think I'll hit the level of 0 on nitrites so I will not be added > fish I still have been adding ammonia twice a day had like my last number > show with in 9 to 10 hours all ammonia was gone and nitrate were down to 0. > > The highest my nitrates has been is 10. I bought a brand new kit and am not > using any of the older test gear even though they all match in the reading,. > > As far as filters I have a Fluva; 305 as well as an Marineland Emperor > Bio-Wheel 400 Power Filter filet. The Fluval has Fluval Bio-Max Rings and > Carbon. The Emperor has the standard Filers and the Bio-Wheel. > > I have sued the ammo-lock stuff in the past but not on this setup. > > If I was at 5.0 reading for my nitrates like it stayed there for over a week > should I even do a 90% water change? > > I don't believe in cycling with fish and I want to do this right. > > Last time I did a fishless cycle it was on a 10 Gallon tank and it cycled in > 2 weeks I added 8 Black Neons and they all lived for about 2 years and then > we went on vacation and the water changes were not done and 6 of the 8 died > and the other two soon followed. > > The 55 gallon I had nothing but problems with from the start. I ended up > replacing the tank (it cracked) added a new filter and spending several days > washing the gravel to make sure nothing was left. Anyway I'm kind of stuck > at this point. I know people that swear by anquel they say it will remove > the ammonia and the nitrites from there tap water but it $35 for a gallon. I > know it cost more but if it takes the ammonia and nitrates out would it be > work it? > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@> > wrote: > > > > While your theory sounds good, you can't do the large PWC 48 hours > > before you add fish since you will still have to dose the tank each > > day for that 48 hours or your nitrifying bacteria will die off without > > an ammonia/nitrite food source. This is why the Fishless Cycling > > articles say to do the large 90% PWC shortly before adding fish. It > > doesn't take 48 hours for the temperature to come up from 76F to 80F. > > > > I'm still concerned about your Fishless Cycling test results but since > > you've been doing PWC's intermittently, it's hard to know what is > > really happening. Normally, at the end of a Fishless Cycle, the > > nitrAtes would be very high, which is why you do the large 90% PWC. > > In your case, your nitrAtes are only 5.0ppm. While the nitrAtes do > > not climb proportionately with the ammonia/nitrite levels, they should > > be climbing well over the 50.0ppm range after a fishless cycle. Once > > again, your intermittent PWC's have artificially lowered this number > > but have you ever seen your nitrAtes above 5ppm prior to doing a PWC? > > If they haven't been climbing, then either your nitrAte test is bad or > > you are not shaking the solutions enough or something. > > > > Don't buy fish yet. Continue dosing the tank for a few more days... > > maybe even a week and lets see if your nitrAtes are climbing to make > > sure your tank is cycling properly. DO NOT do any PWC's during this > > several days to week long test so we can get an accurate picture of what > is happening. > > > > I'm not sure if you ever answered one of my earlier questions about > > filter media. Exactly what kind of filter media do you have in each > filter system? > > Many of them come with Zeolite (whitish colored rocks) and many folks > > do not realize that this is an ammonia absorbing rock and will > > adversely affect you when trying to properly cycle a tank. > > > > Let me know. > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles > > referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically > > under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] > > On Behalf Of robbrouse > > Sent: Friday, August 28, 2009 11:40 AM > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Cycling and Nitrite > > > > After the larger water change it was 5.0 on the nitrite. > > > > I does the tank about 24 hours before I did the testing. Then I added > > tap water that was treated with the API conditioner. Then i filled it > > back up and the readers were off the chart. > > > > The reason I did the 75% water change I was going to add dish tomorrow. > > Wanted to get the water changed and let the tank sit for 48 hours so > > the temp all all could regulate and then add the fish tomorrow. > > > > This has been the daily steps for the last week. > > > > 5:00AM - Test Results before dosing with ammonia Ammonia 0.00 Nitrites > > 0.00 Nitrate 5.0 PH 7.4 GH 11 KH 4 Temp been at 76 > > > > 5:20AM - dosed with ammonia to 5ppm > > > > 2:45 PM - Test Results 12 hours later > > Ammonia 0.00 > > Nitrites 0.00 > > Nitrate 5.0 > > PH 7.4 > > GH 11 > > KH 4 > > Temp been at 76 > > > > 3:15 PM - dosed with ammonia to 5ppm > > > > This has been the routine for the last 7 days and as you can see in > > around 9:00 The levels were back at 0. > > > > You asked if I over does the ammonia not this time one time before I > > added > > 15 ML to see what would happen and this was done at the 2:45 3:00 PM > > test and it was done by morning. > > > > I did the LARGE PWC yesterday like I said I was sure the cycle was > > over and the tank was ready for fish so I did the large PWC and was > > going to go to the LFS in the morning and get my fish today was going > > to be the final planing day for the finned friends. > > > > I might of missed some of your question and I'm grateful for the help > > you have been giving me over the last month, > > > > Robb > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" > > <GoldLenny@> > > wrote: > > > > > > OK. I'm puzzled about your nitrIte readings. In one test, you show > > > nitrItes as 0.00ppm and then they jump to 5.0ppm? Or did you mean > > 0.5ppm??? > > > I see in a later test that the nitrItes were at 2.0ppm and then > > > 1.0ppm so I'm guessing you did mean 5.0ppm in the first test... but > > > I'm confused as to how that jumped up? Did you dose ammonia shortly > > > before > > doing the testing? > > > Did you possibly overdose the ammonia? > > > > > > I see that the nitrItes dropped from 5.0ppm (330PM) to 2.0ppm > > > (730PM) in only 4 hours so it appears that your tank is still > > > cycling properly but I'm just not sure why they jumped up so high, > > > so fast. Your 75% PWC should have only added less than 0.5ppm of > nitrItes to the tank. > > > > > > Are you dosing the tank daily or twice daily with the 4-5ppm of ammonia? > > > (which is 3-5 drops per gallon... depending on the size of the drops). > > > I see you mentioned adding 10ml of ammonia which is the proper > > > amount to add to a 55G tank to bring the ammonia level up to 5.0ppm. > > > > > > Why did you do a 75% PWC? There's no need to do this when fishless > > > cycling unless the water has a low KH level as a low KH level can > > > cause a fishless cycle to go into a stall since the bacteria need > > Carbonates. > > > > > > For simplicity, please include more details in the steps you are doing. > > > > > > > For example: > > > > > >8AM - Test Results before dosing with ammonia (list results) > > > > > > 830AM - dosed with ammonia to 5ppm > > > > > > 8PM - Test Results 12 hours later > > > (list results) > > > > > > 830PM - dosed with enough ammonia to bring back up to 5p pm > > > > > > Etc., etc. > > > > > > Then we will be better able to see what is happening without having > > > to guess as any missing steps. This isn't critical but is helpful > > > for us to be able to answer your questions better. > > > > > > As I've pointed out in past posts, if your tap water has 0.5ppm or > > > less of nitrItes, then doing a weekly 25% PWC will only increase the > > > nitrite level in the tank to 0.125ppm which, if your filters are > > > running, will almost immediately be converted to nitrAtes. There is > > > NOTHING to worry about with such a low level of nitrItes. > > > > > > You DO NOT need to buy any special tap water dechlor product. > > > Simply use API's Tap Water Conditioner or a similar product. API's > 16oz. > > > bottle is around $5.00 online (DrsFosterSmith.com) and will last you > > > over a year on a single 55G tank. It's more concentrated than other > > > products. With API, you only need 1ml per 10G of water where other > > > products need 5ml or even 10ml per 10G of water. > > > > > > Last but not least, while there is no need to do these PWC's in your > > > case, when you are doing them, are you using a dechlor on the water > > > before adding it to the tank? Or, are you dosing the tank with the > > > dechlor and then adding the water? Or what is your procedure. > > > > > > The devil is in the details somewhere in all of this. > > > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles > > > referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, > > > alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) > > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] > > > On Behalf Of robbrouse > > > Sent: Friday, August 28, 2009 10:15 AM > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > > Subject: [AquaticLife] Cycling and Nitrite > > > > > > For those of you that have been following the cycling progress of my > > > 55 Gallon tank here is the latest. > > > > > > I tested the water yesterday and here are the reading. > > > > > > Ammonia 0.00 > > > Nitrites 0.00 > > > Nitrate 5.0 > > > PH 7.4 > > > GH 11 > > > KH 4 > > > Temp been at 76 > > > > > > I did a 75% water change and after I got the water out and back in > > > here are my reading as of 3:30 Mountain time yesterday. > > > > > > Ammonia 0.0 > > > Nitrites 5.0 - could of been a miss-test Nitrate 5.0 PH 7.4 GH 11 KH > > > 4 Temp been at 76 > > > > > > Here are the reading at 7:30 Last Night. > > > > > > Ammonia 0.0 > > > Nitrites 2.0 > > > Nitrate 5.0 > > > PH 7.4 > > > GH 11 > > > KH 4 > > > Temp been at 76 > > > > > > Here they are as of 8:30 Today (8-28-09) > > > > > > Ammonia 0.0 > > > Nitrites 1.0 > > > Nitrate 5.0 > > > PH 7.4 > > > GH 11 > > > KH 4 > > > Temp been at 76 > > > > > > I do have between .25 and .5 of Nitrite in my tap water. About a > > > week ago I did a 15% Water change and it took about 45 minutes to > > > get the nitrite back down to 0.0. > > > > > > The tank has been dose with ammonia for the last week after my > > > number all hit the target goal twice a day with 10 ML and it took > > > less than 6 hours both times to drop the ammonia to zero and the > > > nitrite never lever zero or if it did it was zero during all tests. > > > > > > I dosed it with ammonia again last night and it was 0 again today. > > > > > > I guess my biggest thing is here if all keeps going the way it is > > > every time I do a PWC I will shoot the Nitrite level back up. I was > > > wondering if I should use a product like Amquel, Stress Zyme or > > > Prime for my water conditioner. First do they work? Do the remove > > > the nitrite (will you a zero reading with test kits) or do they just > > naturalize it? > > > > > > I have checked water source from 4 different places (all in > > > different water > > > districts) and they all have a Nitrite, all being very close to what > > > my tap water is. > > > > > > I've spent to many money getting ready fro fish and getting it all > > > set up I'm not going to be happy if I can't keep them. Anyways as > > > always any suggesting would be helpful. > > > > > > The only thing I know numbers were perfect for over a week until I > > > did the 75% water change and now it high again. It's been 17 Hours > > > if there were fish in the tank this could of been a nightmare. > > > > > > Robb >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 42984	From: bill 1433	Date: 8/28/2009
Subject: Re: Cycling and Nitrite

And just let you off easy \\Steve//, I'm not even going to ask how you got "Neßler" to type out! <g> Bill --- On Fri, 8/28/09, Steve Szabo <steve@...> wrote: > From: Steve Szabo <steve@...> > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: Cycling and Nitrite > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Date: Friday, August 28, 2009, 11:40 PM > You mentioned the possibility of > using Amquel. Should you choose to do so, please realize > that Amquel is no longer supplied to Kordon by its > originator, whose products are now sold through Hikari USA > (www.hikariusa.com) and many have reported problems when > using the newer Amquel Plus product. > > Also be aware that when using many products of this sort, > you should not use a Nessler's test kit to measure ammonia, > but a salicylate ammonia test kit. You can easily tell which > you have by the color that is generated for your readings. > Nessler's generates a yellow to brown color, while > salicylate kits generate a green color. Test kits are often > not labeled clearly enough for the average bear to determine > which kit they are getting, so look at the color chart > before buying. The problem is that the Nessler kit will give > you a false positive reading since it measures total ammonia > (NH3 and NH4+), not just the toxic form of ammonia (NH3). > > Also, the Winkler oxygen test will give a lower reading, > should you be testing for oxygen levels in your tank, pond, > etc. > > There are also certain chemicals and dyes used in aquaria > that should not be used if you are using an ammonia > transforming chemical in your tank.  Be sure to check > the data sheet of any product like this you use for > contraindications. > > For those of you who are really interested, Nessler is > really spelled Neßler That would be Ne<Latin small > letter sharp s>ler, which is the German spelling. > > \\Steve// > > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] > On Behalf Of robbrouse > Sent: Friday, August 28, 2009 6:56 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Cycling and Nitrite > > Yes sorry nitrites is was at 5.0 for several days. > > I will NOT be adding fish this weekend as planned. Too much > time and money involved to kill helpless creatures at this > point. > > I started another tap water base line and checked it twice > and I do have nitrate in my water as well 5.0 > > So my tap water base line is. > > Ammonia 0 > Nitr(I)tes .50 > Niotr(A)te 5.0 > Ph 7.8 > KH 4. - NEW Test Kit > GH 11 - New test Kit > > Did all the test 3 times to make sure reading were right. > > I will be getting the API Water Conditioner soon  I > have Aqueon right now. > > I also have some doubts about the cycle as of now as we > have found out it's not ready yet. That's is why we test out > water to make sure it's safe. > > I did go though and remove the carbon today. Now non of the > filters have carbon in it. I left the bro wheels as well as > the Bio-Max Rings in the filters.  The article l I read > did not say anything about removing the carbon. Bit it is > done as of now. > > When I removed the Marineland I decided to cut it open and > see and there was nothing but black carbon in there.. The > same with the canister filet. > > No the plants are all fake. I have been looking into live > plants but I do remember not to use them for the fishless > cycle. > > A side note I was unable to cut the media like you > did  on your blog. I might just snag some filter media > and use it. As you know the Marineland filter has baskets so > to speak I could add carbon to that if needed > > Recap. > > Right now carbon is out. Ammonia is .25 and was dose this > morning at 8:00 ish. Nitrite  Is still running high. I > removed all the carbon from the filters.  I had a > neighbor let me borrow some Amquel it did remove the nitrite > but not the ammonia so I really don't see that as a good > product to use. I filled a gallon jug and did my base line > and then added 1 drop of ammonia and tested again the > nitrite was 0 but the ammonia was still .5.  I just > need to finish a proper fishless cycle. . > > Again did I miss anything you asked? Id so please let me > know. I'm just trying tot do what's right for the fish. If > it's 1 week or 6 weeks I'm more than willing to wait it > out. > > Robb > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, > "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@...> wrote: > > > > OK... you need to be certain of what you type or I > cannot be certain of how > > to answer.  > > > > In the second paragraph, you mention "nitrates spiked > (was at 5.0 for > > several days)" and I'm presuming you meant > nitrItes???  The nitrAtes is the > > end product of the nitrogen cycle... at least for the > purposes of fishless > > cycling a tank.  Every day that you add ammonia, > that ammonia is converted > > to nitrIte.  Then the nitrIte is converted to > nitrAte.  Ammonia and nitrIte > > is toxic to fish.  NitrAte is only dangerous at > very high levels, over > > 100ppm but we strive to keep them under 40ppm or even > under 20ppm by doing > > our weekly 25% PWC's, using plants, etc.... once the > tank is stocked and > > running.  During a fishless cycle, there is NO > NEED to do a PWC unless > > certain things happen like a stall in the > cycling.  This usually only > > happens with very low KH water, which is not present > in your case. > > > > Your PWC's will NOT raise your nitrItes to any major > level... even with a > > 100% water change, the nitrItes would only go to > 0.5ppm so a 25% PWC would > > only raise them to 0.125ppm, which might not even show > up on our test kits. > > > > I'm not sure why your nitrItes spiked from 0.0ppm to > 5.0ppm after doing a > > PWC unless you shocked the nitrifying bacteria or did > not fully dechlor the > > water or something.  Unless you can replicate > that event, I have no clue > > what happened.  As I've stated, doing a PWC will > NOT raise your nitrItes to > > 5.0ppm since your tap water only has 0.5ppm of > nitrItes in it.  It simply is > > NOT possible from a chemistry or math perspective... > unless something else > > happened. > > > > Please do NOT get fish yet.  Continue your > fishless cycling for a few more > > days and lets make sure things are working > properly.  DO NOT do any PWC's > > while you continue the testing.  Lets make sure > things are working properly > > and then you can plan your next step. > > > > Remember that I had some doubts about your fishless > cycle from the beginning > > after you stated that you started from scratch and it > was fully cycling in > > less than two weeks.... but then I thought that maybe > your 0.5ppm of > > nitrItes in your tap water might have helped to jump > start things.  Because > > of all of the weird fluctuations in your numbers, I'm > very uncertain that > > your tank is cycling properly.  Unless I see your > nitrAtes start to rise, > > then I have to suspect something in your filter is > removing the > > ammonia/nitrite/nitrate or you are not testing > properly or your test kit is > > bad.  This is a chemical process that HAS TO > FOLLOW certain physiological > > processes, much like math where 1 + 1 + 1 = 3.  > Even in public schools, 1 + > > 1 + 1 still equals 3 and this is the only answer that > is correct.  With the > > nitrogen cycle, ammonia is converted to nitrIte is > converted to nitrAte and > > then the nitrAte is kept at a safe level by doing > PWC's, using plants and/or > > having advanced filtration methods where > denitrification of the nitrates can > > be done.  For us, we use PWC's and plants to help > keep the nitrates at a > > safe level below 40ppm. > > > > You should have removed the carbon when you started > fishless cycling.  ALL > > of the fishless cycling articles that I've read have > this as one of the > > steps.  I'm not sure it hurts very much but I > guess it does or they wouldn't > > have this as one of their steps.  Further, there > is NO NEED to run carbon in > > a filter system even with fish, much less without fish > in a tank.  It's just > > another way that the filter companies try to separate > people from their > > hard-earned money.  They must think they are the > Guv'ment or something. ;-) > > > > If your nitrAtes have never been over 10ppm, then > either your testing is > > compromised or something else is going wrong.  > For example, in a fully > > stocked tank, the fish put out around 5ppm of ammonia > each day.  After a > > week of this and with no plants or filter media to > remove the nitrogenous > > compounds, the nitrates would be over 20ppm, possibly > higher.  Since you > > were dosing the tank with 5ppm, twice a day, your > nitrates should be well > > over 40ppm, probably MUCH HIGHER and you are not > seeing this figure.  Look > > at your nitrate test instructions.  Were you > shaking the bottles prior to > > testing?   Nitrate bottle #2 says to > shake for at least 30 seconds but it > > should be more like 1 minute or more if the bottle has > been sitting for a > > long time.  If you did not do this each time, > prior to testing, your nitrate > > bottle #2 is probably compromised and will NEVER give > you accurate readings > > again.  See if you can pick up another Nitrate > test kit and shake it like > > crazy before using it and lets make sure your nitrates > are correct. > > > > As far as filter cartridges, MANY of them, usually > Tetra or TopFin brand > > actually have Zeolite inside of the filter cartridges > so many fish keepers > > do not even realize this.  I don't think that > Marineland has started doing > > this but then I haven't bought any filter cartridges > for any of my HOB's in > > many years so I'm not sure what they might be up > to.  If I know them, they > > would have started throwing this crap in their filters > to force you to have > > to trash the filters and buy new ones more often. > > > > Last but not least, do you have live plants in your > tank?  This is another > > thing that IS NOT in the instructions for fishless > cycling but I've seen > > people do it and it only messes up the fishless > cycling process.  Your > > carbon could also be doing this so please remove the > carbon for these next > > few days.  The other reason you should not use > carbon when fishless cycling > > is that some of your good bacteria would then be > growing on the carbon and > > since carbon gets thrown away every few weeks, you > would be trashing the > > bacteria you worked so hard to grow.  By not > using carbon, it forces the > > good bacteria to grow on the Bio-Wheels and other > filter media that will be > > staying in the tank, not getting trashed. > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > > (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are > listed on the right > > side, alphabetically under Labels and also under > Archives by Year, Month) > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] > On > > Behalf Of robbrouse > > Sent: Friday, August 28, 2009 2:35 PM > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Cycling and Nitrite > > > > The first small water change was done to see what > would happen to the > > nitrite level being I have some in my tap. At this > point I was at 0 reading > > on all and the nitrates has never been above 10. It > has been at 5 since the > > test Tank cycled (ammonia and nitrates both hot 0) > Other than Topping off > > the water this is all the water changes that have been > done. I guess I > > misunderstood about the 2 day before added fish. > Should of done it today I > > guess. It did take over night for the temp to raise to > the 76 that my heater > > was set to. > > > > Like I stated I did not do a water change until both > the ammonia spiked > > (stayed at 5.00 or greater for several days) and > nitrates spiked (was at 5.0 > > for several days) and then I did a 10% to see what > would happen to the > > nitrite level since I do have some in my tap water. > > > > Ok I don't think I'll hit the level of 0 on nitrites > so I will not be added > > fish I still have been adding ammonia twice a day had > like my last number > > show with in 9 to 10 hours all ammonia was gone and > nitrate were down to 0. > > > > The highest my nitrates has been is 10. I bought a > brand new kit and am not > > using any of the older test gear even though they all > match in the reading,. > > > > As far as filters I have a Fluva; 305 as well as an > Marineland Emperor > > Bio-Wheel 400 Power Filter filet. The Fluval  has > Fluval Bio-Max Rings  and > > Carbon. The Emperor has the standard Filers and the > Bio-Wheel. > > > > I have sued the ammo-lock stuff in the past but not on > this setup. > > > > If I was at 5.0 reading for my nitrates like it stayed > there for over a week > > should I even do a 90% water change? > > > > I don't believe in cycling with fish and I want to do > this right.  > > > > Last time I did a fishless cycle it was on a 10 Gallon > tank and it cycled in > > 2 weeks I added 8 Black Neons and they all lived for > about 2 years and then > > we went on vacation and the water changes were not > done and 6 of the 8 died > > and the other two soon followed. > > > > The 55 gallon I had nothing but problems with from the > start. I ended up > > replacing the tank (it cracked) added a new filter and > spending several days > > washing the gravel to make sure nothing was left. > Anyway I'm kind of stuck > > at this point. I know people that swear by anquel they > say it will remove > > the ammonia and the nitrites from there tap water but > it $35 for a gallon. I > > know it cost more but if it takes the ammonia and > nitrates out would it be > > work it? > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, > "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@> > > wrote: > > > > > > While your theory sounds good, you can't do the > large PWC 48 hours > > > before you add fish since you will still have to > dose the tank each > > > day for that 48 hours or your nitrifying bacteria > will die off without > > > an ammonia/nitrite food source.  This is why > the Fishless Cycling > > > articles say to do the large 90% PWC shortly > before adding fish.  It > > > doesn't take 48 hours for the temperature to come > up from 76F to 80F. > > > > > > I'm still concerned about your Fishless Cycling > test results but since > > > you've been doing PWC's intermittently, it's hard > to know what is > > > really happening.  Normally, at the end of a > Fishless Cycle, the > > > nitrAtes would be very high, which is why you do > the large 90% PWC.  > > > In your case, your nitrAtes are only > 5.0ppm.  While the nitrAtes do > > > not climb proportionately with the > ammonia/nitrite levels, they should > > > be climbing well over the 50.0ppm range after a > fishless cycle.  Once > > > again, your intermittent PWC's have artificially > lowered this number > > > but have you ever seen your nitrAtes above 5ppm > prior to doing a PWC?  > > > If they haven't been climbing, then either your > nitrAte test is bad or > > > you are not shaking the solutions enough or > something. > > > > > > Don't buy fish yet.  Continue dosing the > tank for a few more days... > > > maybe even a week and lets see if your nitrAtes > are climbing to make > > > sure your tank is cycling properly.  DO NOT > do any PWC's during this > > > several days to week long test so we can get an > accurate picture of what > > is happening. > > > > > > I'm not sure if you ever answered one of my > earlier questions about > > > filter media.  Exactly what kind of filter > media do you have in each > > filter system? > > > Many of them come with Zeolite (whitish colored > rocks) and many folks > > > do not realize that this is an ammonia absorbing > rock and will > > > adversely affect you when trying to properly > cycle a tank. > > > > > > Let me know. > > > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles > > > referenced in above reply are listed on the right > side, alphabetically > > > under Labels and also under Archives by Year, > Month) > > >    > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] > > > > On Behalf Of robbrouse > > > Sent: Friday, August 28, 2009 11:40 AM > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Cycling and Nitrite > > > > > > After the larger water change it was 5.0 on the > nitrite. > > > > > > I does the tank about 24 hours before I did the > testing. Then I added > > > tap water that was treated with the API > conditioner. Then i filled it > > > back up and the readers were off the chart. > > > > > > The reason I did the 75% water change I was going > to add dish tomorrow. > > > Wanted to get the water changed and let the tank > sit for 48 hours so > > > the temp all all could regulate and then add the > fish tomorrow. > > > > > > This has been the daily steps for the last week. > > > > > > 5:00AM - Test Results before dosing with ammonia > Ammonia 0.00 Nitrites > > > 0.00 Nitrate 5.0 PH 7.4 GH 11 KH 4 Temp been at > 76 > > > > > > 5:20AM - dosed with ammonia to 5ppm > > >  > > > 2:45 PM - Test Results 12 hours later > > > Ammonia 0.00 > > > Nitrites 0.00 > > > Nitrate 5.0 > > > PH 7.4 > > > GH 11 > > > KH 4 > > > Temp been at 76 > > > > > > 3:15 PM - dosed with ammonia to 5ppm > > > > > > This has been the routine for the last 7 days and > as you can see in > > > around 9:00 The levels were back at 0. > > > > > > You asked if I over does the ammonia not this > time one time before I > > > added > > > 15 ML to see what would happen and this was done > at the 2:45 3:00 PM > > > test and it was done by morning. > > > > > > I did the LARGE PWC yesterday like I said I was > sure the cycle was > > > over and the tank was ready for fish so I did the > large PWC and was > > > going to go to the LFS in the morning and get my > fish today was going > > > to be the final planing day for the finned > friends. > > > > > > I might of missed some of your question and I'm > grateful for the help > > > you have been giving me over the last month, > > > > > > Robb > > > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, > "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" > > > <GoldLenny@> > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > OK.  I'm puzzled about your nitrIte > readings.  In one test, you show > > > > nitrItes as 0.00ppm and then they jump to > 5.0ppm?  Or did you mean > > > 0.5ppm??? > > > > I see in a later test that the nitrItes were > at 2.0ppm and then > > > > 1.0ppm so I'm guessing you did mean 5.0ppm > in the first test... but > > > > I'm confused as to how that jumped up?  > Did you dose ammonia shortly > > > > before > > > doing the testing? > > > > Did you possibly overdose the ammonia? > > > > > > > > I see that the nitrItes dropped from 5.0ppm > (330PM) to 2.0ppm > > > > (730PM) in only 4 hours so it appears that > your tank is still > > > > cycling properly but I'm just not sure why > they jumped up so high, > > > > so fast.  Your 75% PWC should have only > added less than 0.5ppm of > > nitrItes to the tank. > > > > > > > > Are you dosing the tank daily or twice daily > with the 4-5ppm of ammonia? > > > > (which is 3-5 drops per gallon... depending > on the size of the drops).  > > > > I see you mentioned adding 10ml of ammonia > which is the proper > > > > amount to add to a 55G tank to bring the > ammonia level up to 5.0ppm. > > > > > > > > Why did you do a 75% PWC?  There's no > need to do this when fishless > > > > cycling unless the water has a low KH level > as a low KH level can > > > > cause a fishless cycle to go into a stall > since the bacteria need > > > Carbonates. > > > > > > > > For simplicity, please include more details > in the steps you are doing. > > > > > > > > > > For example: > > > > > > > >8AM - Test Results before dosing with > ammonia  (list results) > > > > > > > > 830AM - dosed with ammonia to 5ppm > > > > > > > > 8PM - Test Results 12 hours later > > > > (list results) > > > > > > > > 830PM - dosed with enough ammonia to bring > back up to 5p pm > > > > > > > > Etc., etc. > > > > > > > > Then we will be better able to see what is > happening without having > > > > to guess as any missing steps.  This > isn't critical but is helpful > > > > for us to be able to answer your questions > better. > > > > > > > > As I've pointed out in past posts, if your > tap water has 0.5ppm or > > > > less of nitrItes, then doing a weekly 25% > PWC will only increase the > > > > nitrite level in the tank to 0.125ppm which, > if your filters are > > > > running, will almost immediately be > converted to nitrAtes.  There is > > > > NOTHING to worry about with such a low level > of nitrItes. > > > > > > > > You DO NOT need to buy any special tap water > dechlor product.  > > > > Simply use API's Tap Water Conditioner or a > similar product.  API's > > 16oz. > > > > bottle is around $5.00 online > (DrsFosterSmith.com) and will last you > > > > over a year on a single 55G tank.  It's > more concentrated than other > > > > products.  With API, you only need 1ml > per 10G of water where other > > > > products need 5ml or even 10ml per 10G of > water. > > > > > > > > Last but not least, while there is no need > to do these PWC's in your > > > > case, when you are doing them, are you using > a dechlor on the water > > > > before adding it to the tank?  Or, are > you dosing the tank with the > > > > dechlor and then adding the water?  Or > what is your procedure. > > > > > > > > The devil is in the details somewhere in all > of this. > > > > > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles > > > > referenced in above reply are listed on the > right side, > > > > alphabetically under Labels and also under > Archives by Year, Month) > > > > > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > > > > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] > > > > On Behalf Of robbrouse > > > > Sent: Friday, August 28, 2009 10:15 AM > > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > > > Subject: [AquaticLife] Cycling and Nitrite > > > > > > > > For those of you that have been following > the cycling progress of my > > > > 55 Gallon tank here is the latest. > > > > > > > > I tested the water yesterday and here are > the reading. > > > > > > > > Ammonia 0.00 > > > > Nitrites 0.00 > > > > Nitrate 5.0 > > > > PH 7.4 > > > > GH 11 > > > > KH 4 > > > > Temp been at 76 > > > > > > > > I did a 75% water change and after I got the > water out and back in > > > > here are my reading as of 3:30 Mountain time > yesterday. > > > > > > > > Ammonia 0.0 > > > > Nitrites 5.0 - could of been a miss-test > Nitrate 5.0 PH 7.4 GH 11 KH > > > > 4 Temp been at 76 > > > > > > > > Here are the reading at 7:30 Last Night. > > > > > > > > Ammonia 0.0 > > > > Nitrites 2.0 > > > > Nitrate 5.0 > > > > PH 7.4 > > > > GH 11 > > > > KH 4 > > > > Temp been at 76 > > > > > > > > Here they are as of 8:30 Today (8-28-09) > > > > > > > > Ammonia 0.0 > > > > Nitrites 1.0 > > > > Nitrate 5.0 > > > > PH 7.4 > > > > GH 11 > > > > KH 4 > > > > Temp been at 76 > > > > > > > > I do have between .25 and .5 of Nitrite in > my tap water. About a > > > > week ago I did a 15% Water change and it > took about 45 minutes to > > > > get the nitrite back down to 0.0. > > > > > > > > The tank has been dose with ammonia for the > last week after my > > > > number all hit the target goal twice a day > with 10 ML and it took > > > > less than 6 hours both times to drop the > ammonia to zero and the > > > > nitrite never lever zero or if it did it was > zero during all tests. > > > > > > > > I dosed it with ammonia again last night and > it was 0 again today. > > > > > > > > I guess my biggest thing is here if all > keeps going the way it is > > > > every time I do  a PWC I will shoot the > Nitrite level back up. I was > > > > wondering if I should use a product like > Amquel, Stress Zyme or > > > > Prime for my water conditioner. First do > they work? Do the remove > > > > the nitrite (will you a zero reading with > test kits) or do they just > > > naturalize it? > > > > > > > > I have checked water source from 4 different > places (all in > > > > different water > > > > districts) and they all have a Nitrite, all > being very close to what > > > > my tap water is. > > > > > > > > I've spent to many money getting ready fro > fish and getting it all > > > > set up I'm not going to be happy if I can't > keep them.  Anyways as > > > > always any suggesting would be helpful. > > > > > > > > The only thing I know numbers were perfect > for over a week until I > > > > did the 75% water change and now it high > again. It's been 17 Hours > > > > if there were fish in the tank this could of > been a nightmare. > > > > > > > > Robb > > > > > > ------------------------------------ > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when > replying, Thank You. > ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> > ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> > PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is > NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of > the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new > subject (was re: old subject)" <- > <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. > , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. > > If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of > unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by > clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the home page.  > > Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com > to receive the digest, which includes up to 25 posts at a > time in a single email > > Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com > for the No E-Mail option where you will still be able to > read messages on the group and post replies. > > Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com > to receive individual e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links > > >     mailto:AquaticLife-fullfeatured@yahoogroups.com > > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 42985	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 8/28/2009
Subject: Re: Question - Silver Tip Shark

\\Steve//, I looked at my Gmail webmail page and the same thing is showing up there. This isn't happening with her first post, only with the embedded replies below her reply. I have Outlook set up to save ALL messages on the Gmail servers since there is little or no limit to the amount of mail I can save on Gmail servers so the original emails are all still there, going back many years. Something I see in this email (your reply), is that when I opened the email to full screen on my computer using OL2003 and when opening the IE8 page for Gmail to the full size of the monitor, your and my typing expanded to the full length of the page (or the full width of the Gmail borders) while her typing has line breaks about 2/3rds of the page so her sentences get chopped to the next line for one or two words, then another line break and the sentence continues on another line with that line ending short and one or two words move down to the next line, then a line break to the next line. That is part of the appearance issue but then, further down in her reply where my or Ray's reply is located, it loses ALL of the Paragraph breaks and line breaks of those replies, that she was replying to, so that those replies becomes just one long run-on looking paragraph, even including my signature, email header info, etc. Since it's showing up the same way on the Gmail webmail page, and her replies to Ray are also showing these same shortened line formatting. Ray's typing expands to the full width of my monitor, at least within the borders of the Gmail webpage (and on OL2003) whereas her typing stops around 2/3rd's of the way before reaching the Gmail bordering that would normally cause a line break. I could send you a series of Print Screens if you want to see what I am seeing or use a virtual connection (or whatever it's called by you tech support guys) where you could see my computer screen live. I use LogMeIn to do this on my computers but I know Microsoft has this software on Windows XP, et al. I use Comodo Internet Security and it doesn't scan every incoming email like AVG and other AV programs do. It only worries or alerts on an email if I was to try and open an attachment that is infected. Gmail also scans all of my incoming emails and blocks all the SPAM and infections so between the two of them, I NEVER get any infected emails or attachments via email. Of course, I also have OL2003 set up to NOT display images or HTML without my express permission as well so over 90% of my mail is read in plain text with only a few of them that I might convert to HTML and download images if it's an email from a previously known trusted source and can't be read in plain text or if I actually want to see the "pretty" HTML formatting or images. ;-) These security measures that I use for my incoming emails are not affecting any of my other incoming emails ALTHOUGH I do recall seeing something like this when folks (from this group and other Yahoo Groups) reply from their Blackberry's where their reply will end and the email header they were replying to continues on the same line that their reply ended instead of their being line breaks. I do not remember if the rest of the email was also garbled, just the header. I figured this was because they were not inserting a couple of Paragraph separators since they were replying from a Blackberry. I'll have to pay more attention to the next reply I get from someone on a Blackberry. When you get this reply in your OL, open it full screen and scroll down below your reply (below) and while the first paragraph of my reply (below yours) has a couple of formatting quirks, the rest of my reply looks normal BUT when I get down to Margie's reply (below mine), the formatting quirks really kick in BIG TIME and her typing does not expand to the full width of the page like ours is showing up. I'm not sure if she uses the webmail interface with ATT.net to do her emailing or if she uses an email client (program) on her computer to handle her emailing. Of course, I'm really only familiar with OE and OL so if she is using Thunderbird or some other email client, you would have to chime in if there is something within that program. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Steve Szabo Sent: Friday, August 28, 2009 9:11 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Question - Silver Tip Shark Lenny, Margie's messages are coming through fine with me, even via VPN over a Verizon EVDO connection. If this is only happening to Margie's messages, I have not a clue as to what is going on, or where it is getting munged. If you do not already, use the setting in outlook to save messages on the server for a day or two, so you can go up open the server via the ISP's web mail connection to check the messages there, to see if they are munged when they reach your ISP's mail server. If they are OK there, look at you're A/V solution--shut it down from scanning e-mail, or roll the definitions back a couple of days, if you can, and see if this makes a difference--meanwhile, you'll need to keep this thread going, and Margie answering, since this will not fixed messages already munged. \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Lenny V. aka GoldLenny Sent: Friday, August 28, 2009 5:17 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com; 'Margie' Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Question - Silver Tip Shark Well, something in your computer, security software or something is changing the formatting of your emails and removing Paragraph separators, line breaks, inserting line breaks, etc.. Do you use webmail at the ATT.net website or do you use Outlook, Outlook Express, Thunderbird, etc., to read and reply to your email? There are some settings in these various website and software that can affect some things but not usually to the degree that yours is doing right now. Maybe \\Steve// will chime in if he's seen this before. I've seen lots of weird formatting issues in email but never this one. I am also sending you a copy of this email off-list and attaching a copy of a Print-Screen from my end so you can see how even the email you just sent is all garbled looking, with sentences ending in the middle of a line and then restarting on the next line. This is only happening to emails that I am receiving from you through the group so I'm not sure what is causing it. Anyhow... back to the fish... Always, ALWAYS, when interested in a certain fish, write down the common name, the scientific name, if available, a description of the fish and what ever info the store has about the fish as far as tank size, fish size, etc.... maybe even take a picture of the fish. Then come out here and post the info and picture and you will get more appropriate advice from people that are not trying to sell you something... just honest, unbiased information. If there is only one fish left that you want, put a deposit down and have them hold it for you... then come do your research and if they have the fish mislabeled or have inaccurate info about tank or fish size, then they would have to give you back your money... or at the very least, a full store credit... or use the squeaky wheel method until they do. I recently had to raise 40 kinds of hell.. heck, maybe 50 kinds of hell inside of my local Sprint Store to get them to remove an overcharge from my phone bill. After 10 minutes of raising hell and after they asked me to leave the store and I refused until I got to speak to the manager, I was quickly taken care of and the over charge was removed. Of course, I only had to do this because the AR person on the phone was too incompetent to do it over the phone. (AR = Anal Retentive. LOL) After it was all over, I chuckled and told them it would have been a lot simpler to us all if they would have just did the right thing in the first place. The manager agreed... although in the back of his head, he was probably calling me a lot worse than a squeaky wheel or an AR customer. LOL Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Margie Sent: Friday, August 28, 2009 3:48 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Question - Silver Tip Shark Yes, it is for sure the Columbian Shark..... Sorry And I am not sure on the other two breeds. I just know I asked for fish that do not grow to be very large. And that is what I got. I would the name of the catfish if I saw it again. It did start with a Pl-------- something I am not sure. The Pleco is a common one. Was not aware that the "shark" was of the catfish family, till I looked it up on the Internet. And then I saw his tentacles and realized it what it was The price at Pet's Mart on the catfish were 3.99 each and they are long and silvery to almost clear. The pleco was 2.99. Maybe the price will help you. Other then that I know nothing more. I have not had any problems with my software or my replies or new posts. What is below is not what I rec'd or what I sent. I do not know what happen. It does look a mess doesn't it. Thank you -------Original Message------- From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny Date: 8/28/2009 4:32:18 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Question - Silver Tip Shark ARGGHHH.. you didn't answer any of my questions. Do you know what kind of "2 catfish" that you have or what species of Pleco? Did you look at the pictures of the Columbian Shark to see if that is what you have? Re-read my reply and let me know more answers since I could not give you my answers without knowing the correct information. Is it some kind of software on your computer that causes your replies to lose all formatting? My reply was separated into various paragraphs, etc., and in your reply, it's all one big run-on sentence. Does this happen to you with all of your email replies? Many of us in this group are also computer competent and maybe we can help with this as well. ;-) Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Margie Sent: Friday, August 28, 2009 2:45 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Question - Silver Tip Shark OK, thank you for the info. I will see what I can do to remedy this problem -------Original Message------- From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny Date: 08/28/09 15:36:40 To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Question - Silver Tip Shark I'm answering as I read so bare with me. You certainly CAN NOT add more fish. In all likelihood, you are severely overstocked already. What kind of "2 catfish" do you have? The Pleco is also a catfish... do you know what species it is? As far as the Silver Tip Shark, I did not recognize this common name but I found some references to a "better" common name being Columbian Shark. Look at the pictures associated with this Mongabay profile and let us know if this is what you have. http://fish.mongabay.com/species/Arius_seemani.html If it is, then as you will see, this species of catfish... (so now you're up to four catfish in the tank) ;-)... actually grows to 24", not as large in captivity, likely due to being kept in undersized tanks and suffering from stunting issues. Even for a 15" fast swimming fish like this one, you should have at least a 8' to 10' long tank so your 55G is NOT nearly big enough. Print out the Mongabay profile which recommends a bare minimum of 100-125G of water just for this single fish. Further, this fish is a brackish water (somewhat salty water) fish which makes them even less compatible with your other fish and should be kept in groups, as you know, so really, for someone wanting to keep a shoal of these fish, they should have a 500G+ sized tank... maybe a little smaller if they do frequent PWC's and tank maintenance. As far as I know there are NO real "sharks" that live their lives in fresh water. Most of the fresh water fish that have the word "shark" as part of their name are usually from the catfish family. There are hundreds of catfish species with the smallest growing to only 1" and the largest growing to over 6' (SIX FEET) long so without knowing your species, it's hard to give any suggestions or advice. If your Pleco (also a catfish) is a common pleco, they grow to 18"+ and get too big for your 55G also. There are some dwarf species that stay under 6" but we would need to know what species you have before saying yeah or nay on the pleco... same for the other "2 catfish". You may be able to keep the pleco, if it's a common pleco at least until it grows to around 6" and then you would have to trade him in on a new baby common pleco or switch to a species of algae eater that stays smaller, like a Clown Pleco or Bristle Nose Pleco. Many LFS (local fish stores) will do the trade in thing. Most PetsMarts will not do this. So.. that leaves the 6 Tiger Barbs as the only certain species... hoping that one is right, of course. ;-) Here is the Mongabay profile on Tiger Barbs (Puntius tetrazona)... http://fish.mongabay.com/species/Puntius_tetrazona.html Look at the SC section (Suggested Companions) for the most likely fish to be suitable for being kept with this species. You will also see that these fish grow to around 3" each so these six fish would need at least 18G of your 55G total volume. This leaves you with 37G of water volume for your remaining fish. If you get a dwarf pleco, it would need around 10G of water volume so you would have 27G of water volume left over for addition fish that are mentioned in the SC section above. I'm presuming your other "2 catfish" are not going to be compatible with your tank. Please, in the future, do your own research or ask out here BEFORE buying fish so you can be more assured of getting fish that will work with your tank, water parameters and other fish. Asking after the fact makes life much harder for you and the fish. If you are an impulsive fish buyer, leave your purse and/or wallet in the car and only bring enough money to buy what you need, when you go into the PetsMart or LFS. ;-) Having a plan and working within that plan will bring back that warm and fuzzy fish feeling. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Margie Sent: Friday, August 28, 2009 1:22 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Question - Silver Tip Shark I have a 55 G tank with 6 Tiger Barbs, 2 catfish, 1 Pleco and this Silver Tip Shark. I have read this breed of Shark is not good in a 55 g tank, plus they need more of them, at least 3 in a shoal. They grow very large. This one runs the tank length all day long, he zips across, then up and over again in the same pattern. And that he should be returned to the store Pets Mart says he is ok with what I have. And I know not all at P.Mart know a lot about fish and their habits. But then not everyone giving advice on the 'net knows either. So, Lenny I know you do. So what is right? Is this Shark ok? Plus he looks more like a catfish. Is he in the catfish family? And I have a comment. When I tried having goldies and they were not to be due to parasites that totally wiped them out and now I have gone back to the tropicals. With the goldies I was getting brown algae also. When at Pet Mart's I asked what would get rid of brown algae, would a algae eater do it He said no, I asked if the pleco would, he said no. But I bought a Pleco anyway and guess what he has cleaned all the brown algae away. So they do suck the algae up. HE is a happy little sucker. I do not plan to add to the fish I have unless I need that one more Shark., I would go 2, but not three. Not if they grow that large. Are the fish I have a good balance? I have had tanks for 50 years and never had troubles before like the goldies. And the goldies have made me totally paranoid now and I don't want to feel like that again. I had tanks and never really worried about what I had or if they were ok together. But It seems the more I read the less secure I feel about fish. I want that warm and fuzzy feeling back again.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 42986	From: silvercat151	Date: 8/28/2009
Subject: Re: PLEASE help - strange thing on goldfish

I appreciate your detailed reply, thank you. However I have been to Wal-Mart today to take photographs of what is going on in their tanks and added the photos and more information to this thread http://www.aquariacentral.com/forums/showthread.php?p=2099016#post2099016 I think this might help clarify things? Even if you are right and this is not Anchorworm, and in view of the fact that I have already started with chemicals to treat suspected parasites, is it safe to start meddling with things by putting salt in the water at the same time? Should I change the water? --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@...> wrote: > > I looked over the pictures and I see NO evidence of anchor worms, only a > lesion/injury on the left top of the fish where it meets the dorsal fin. > > Your pictures are clear and if the fish had an anchor worm, it would be > visible. Now.. this doesn't mean that the fish might not have HAD an anchor > worm at some point at that spot and you might now have a secondary infection > from the bite. > > I'm not sure I would treat with an anti-parasite and instead I would treat > with either antibiotic treated food and/or something like Maracyn in the > water column. Even Melafix in the water column OR just use salt, slowly > raised to two teaspoons per gallon would help with an external infection. > The salt would also help to kill off any parasites for that matter. You do > NOT need to buy any kind of special so-called aquarium salt. Just normal > old salt from your grocery store, preferably the plain kind but even if > iodized, it's OK too. Iodized salt might be a slight concern in an outdoor > pond, when exposed to the sun, but it's not an issue in our indoor tanks. > > If your budget it tight... and who's isn't???... then you could start off by > slowly raising the salt level to 2 teaspoons per gallon over the course of > 24 hours so 1/3rd of the full dose to start (mixed in a container with tank > water first and then slowly poured into the tank, away from the fish or > filter), then 12 hours later, add another 1/3rd dose, then 12 hours later, > add the third 1/3rd dose. Leave things at 2 teaspoons per gallon for a week > and see how things are doing. If the fish starts to show any signs of > distress, do a 25% PWC, as needed to reduce the salt level but most goldfish > can tolerate this 0.2% salt level as a treatment. > > Once again, if you can get antibacterial food (Jungle Brand is even OK for > this), feed that as the only diet for a week, along with the salty water > treatment and let us know. > > After the week of salty water treatment, slowly return the water back to > freshwater by doing a series of daily 25% PWC's and after five of them, the > water will be mostly fresh water again with the remaining salt level being > low enough to not be an issue and it will slowly lower each time you do your > weekly 25% PWC's. > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right > side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) > > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On > Behalf Of silvercat151 > Sent: Friday, August 28, 2009 3:21 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: PLEASE help - strange thing on goldfish > > Please see this http://www.aquariacentral.com/forums/showthread.php?t=204402 > which has photos of my fish, and I will be posting photos which I took at > Wal-Mart today of other infected fish with visible trailing things. This is > new stock since I bought my fish, which was sold to me as having a 'wound' . > > > I stopped using Pimafix some time ago, as this seemed to have cleared.It has > since returned. Last night I started using Parasite Clear. If you read my > posts on the above thread, you will see the full story and agreement of an > experienced person there that this is a case of Anchorworm. > > Thanks! > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@> > wrote: > > > > Where did you find this information that says this is the "start of > > anchor worm"? > > > > Anchor worms are visible to the naked eye. Do you see an anchor worm > > "anchored" onto the spot or anywhere else on the fish? If not, it > > certainly could have been an infected area left over by a previous > > anchor worm that was removed, but in that case, it should still be > > treated as a secondary infection, not for a parasite. > > > > See this page for pictures of Anchor Worms. > > > > > http://web.archive.org/web/20051217230513/http://www.fishpalace.org/disease. > > html OR > > > > http://preview.tinyurl.com/2m83ee > > > > Scroll down about 3/4th's of the page to get to the section about > > Anchor Worms to see a few good pictures of these external parasites. > > > > What are you doing as far as treatment now? I remember you were using > > PimaFix which I explained was not the proper medication but you > > haven't replied with any other information until now... at least not > > that I have seen. > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles > > referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically > > under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) > > > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] > > On Behalf Of rebecca may > > Sent: Friday, August 28, 2009 10:14 AM > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: PLEASE help - strange thing on goldfish > > > > Actually, after looking round the internet I have identified this as > > the start of anchorworm, which this fish and, now I have looked at > > other recently stocked fish in the local Wal-Mart where this came > > from, seem to have. This was the only fish with it at the time and I > > was told by the staff that it was an injury. >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 42987	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 8/29/2009
Subject: Re: PLEASE help - strange thing on goldfish

As with any medication, you should NEVER mix meds unless you know for certain they are compatible. If it's not an emergency to remove a medication, such as a fish reacting badly to the medication, I usually use fresh carbon and do a series of twice daily 25% PWC's for a couple of days to remove the old medication and return the tank to a mostly fresh and clean water state and then give the fish a day or so of rest from medications before starting a new treatment program. A fish's osmoregulatory system works to equalize the salt, mineral and chemical water content on the outside of the fish with the fluids in the inside of the fish (that's the simplest explanation of Osmoregulation that I could think of) so whenever you use meds, salt or other chemicals, this causes the fish a certain level of stress since it's osmoregulatory system has to work overtime to get things balanced on the inside of the fish. If it's not an emergency, it's good to give the fish a day of rest from chemicals to let it clean itself out and then start the new treatment. That said, and since your fish is not showing any signs of stress related to this medication you are using, from it's "injury" and no signs of actual parasites, you could continue the treatment for the remainder of it's prescribed treatment so you did not completely waste the money spent on it so far and to give you added peace of mind that the fish is free of external parasites. Then use the fresh carbon and series of PWC's to bring the tank back to clean fresh water before starting the salty water treatment as I previously detailed. I usually do NOT treat a fish for something I cannot diagnose, with the exception of possibly using salt for unknown things or while trying to figure something out for certain. I also use Hikari's PraziPro (praziquantel) for all new incoming fish, especially goldfish, while they are in quarantine. PraziPro is a anti-parasite for things like gill flukes and certain other internal parasites. I guess it might affect external parasites as well although it's not listed for them. It's very mild and does not cause the fish any stress whatsoever so it's safe to use compared to some other medications. Praziquantel is used for deworming cats and dogs and has been proven to be very safe on our fish as well. There is no need for you to buy this, nor any other medication at this time. I was simply explaining the only medication that I use on almost all new fish. I do keep Table Salt, Melafix and Pimafix on hand since they are very mild and do not go out of date compared to other meds. They are also much less expensive than many other meds. I would not buy an expensive medication or any medication unless or until I absolutely know what is wrong to a reasonable certainty. In your case, I think you were misdirected to buy the external parasite treatment, especially for anchor worms, when no anchor worm was visible. Of course, there are other external parasites that are not as easily diagnosed as anchor worms but most external parasites, even the smallest of them are able to be diagnosed with the naked eye. Some do require a scraping of the fish and viewing under a microscope. Anchor worms are big enough, nearing an inch in length, that they are easily identified, much like Ich and Velvet are easily identified by their unique appearance on fish. I looked at your photos of the other WalMart fish and there is one of the black moores that obviously has what looks like an anchor worm near its dorsal fin, although the picture is a little fuzzy and I see some of the other issues affecting some of the other fish... BUT remember, just because one or more fish are sick, it does NOT mean that all fish are sick. Just like with us humans, one member of our family can be sick but it doesn't mean that the rest of us will also get sick. With parasites, it's the same thing. If two people go swimming in a pond and one of them comes out with leaches on them, it doesn't mean the other person has leaches as well. Parasites are opportunistic and once they find a host, they are happy. They are not predatory where they go looking for any other hosts so they can infest them as well. Further, a weaker fish with a weakened immune system and compromised slime-coat will be more likely to succumb to infestations or infections than a healthier fish with a thicker slime-coat. As I stated above. the only anti-parasite medication (or any medication for that matter) that I use on ALL new fish, even if things are not visible, is PraziPro, since it is so mild to the fish and since so many goldfish do have gill flukes from being in infested breeding ponds. Everything else has to be balanced with the pros and cons of using it. I do not even use MelaFix or PimaFix without seeing symptoms that I think these medications might help, even though they are also very mild... just like I do not take aspirin ahead of time, in case I might get a headache later on in the day (although, when I was married, I might have taken aspirin ahead of time, whenever my M-I-L was coming over... to pre-treat that headache. LOL) It's the same with our fish. Do not use 99% of medications unless or until they are warranted. I'm still a member of Aquaria Central but I do not have time to participate over there as much as I did at one time. This Yahoo Group and some of the other goldfish and pond groups that I belong to keep me busy enough and I can manage these with my email where other forums means I have to go to the forums webpage, click through the various forums and threads to see what is going on. Yahoo Groups and emails are simpler for me to deal with. While there are some very good and experience fish keepers in that forum and many other forums, one thing I've seen is people jumping to conclusions and suggesting treatment plans without being certain of a diagnosis and sometimes, the medication is harder on the fish than the improperly diagnosed health issue. I almost NEVER suggest a treatment until I have a LOT of facts and have a reasonable degree of certainty about what an issue is... other than to suggest improving the water quality while further diagnosing the problem. Clean water is still the best medicine for our fish, as a preventative and as a treatment, since a large percentage of fish health issues, probably 90% or more are a direct result of them being in below-standard water quality. Fix the water and that will fix the fish in many cases. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of silvercat151 Sent: Friday, August 28, 2009 10:28 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: PLEASE help - strange thing on goldfish I appreciate your detailed reply, thank you. However I have been to Wal-Mart today to take photographs of what is going on in their tanks and added the photos and more information to this thread http://www.aquariacentral.com/forums/showthread.php?p=2099016#post2099016 I think this might help clarify things? Even if you are right and this is not Anchorworm, and in view of the fact that I have already started with chemicals to treat suspected parasites, is it safe to start meddling with things by putting salt in the water at the same time? Should I change the water? --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@...> wrote: > > I looked over the pictures and I see NO evidence of anchor worms, only > a lesion/injury on the left top of the fish where it meets the dorsal fin. > > Your pictures are clear and if the fish had an anchor worm, it would > be visible. Now.. this doesn't mean that the fish might not have HAD > an anchor worm at some point at that spot and you might now have a > secondary infection from the bite. > > I'm not sure I would treat with an anti-parasite and instead I would > treat with either antibiotic treated food and/or something like > Maracyn in the water column. Even Melafix in the water column OR just > use salt, slowly raised to two teaspoons per gallon would help with an external infection. > The salt would also help to kill off any parasites for that matter. > You do NOT need to buy any kind of special so-called aquarium salt. > Just normal old salt from your grocery store, preferably the plain > kind but even if iodized, it's OK too. Iodized salt might be a slight > concern in an outdoor pond, when exposed to the sun, but it's not an issue in our indoor tanks. > > If your budget it tight... and who's isn't???... then you could start > off by slowly raising the salt level to 2 teaspoons per gallon over > the course of > 24 hours so 1/3rd of the full dose to start (mixed in a container with > tank water first and then slowly poured into the tank, away from the > fish or filter), then 12 hours later, add another 1/3rd dose, then 12 > hours later, add the third 1/3rd dose. Leave things at 2 teaspoons > per gallon for a week and see how things are doing. If the fish > starts to show any signs of distress, do a 25% PWC, as needed to > reduce the salt level but most goldfish can tolerate this 0.2% salt level as a treatment. > > Once again, if you can get antibacterial food (Jungle Brand is even OK > for this), feed that as the only diet for a week, along with the salty > water treatment and let us know. > > After the week of salty water treatment, slowly return the water back > to freshwater by doing a series of daily 25% PWC's and after five of > them, the water will be mostly fresh water again with the remaining > salt level being low enough to not be an issue and it will slowly > lower each time you do your weekly 25% PWC's. > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles > referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically > under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) > > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] > On Behalf Of silvercat151 > Sent: Friday, August 28, 2009 3:21 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: PLEASE help - strange thing on goldfish > > Please see this > http://www.aquariacentral.com/forums/showthread.php?t=204402 > which has photos of my fish, and I will be posting photos which I took > at Wal-Mart today of other infected fish with visible trailing things. > This is new stock since I bought my fish, which was sold to me as having a 'wound' . > > > I stopped using Pimafix some time ago, as this seemed to have > cleared.It has since returned. Last night I started using Parasite > Clear. If you read my posts on the above thread, you will see the full > story and agreement of an experienced person there that this is a case of Anchorworm. > > Thanks! > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" > <GoldLenny@> > wrote: > > > > Where did you find this information that says this is the "start of > > anchor worm"? > > > > Anchor worms are visible to the naked eye. Do you see an anchor > > worm "anchored" onto the spot or anywhere else on the fish? If not, > > it certainly could have been an infected area left over by a > > previous anchor worm that was removed, but in that case, it should > > still be treated as a secondary infection, not for a parasite. > > > > See this page for pictures of Anchor Worms. > > > > > http://web.archive.org/web/20051217230513/http://www.fishpalace.org/disease. > > html OR > > > > http://preview.tinyurl.com/2m83ee > > > > Scroll down about 3/4th's of the page to get to the section about > > Anchor Worms to see a few good pictures of these external parasites. > > > > What are you doing as far as treatment now? I remember you were > > using PimaFix which I explained was not the proper medication but > > you haven't replied with any other information until now... at least > > not that I have seen. > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles > > referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, > > alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) > > > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] > > On Behalf Of rebecca may > > Sent: Friday, August 28, 2009 10:14 AM > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: PLEASE help - strange thing on goldfish > > > > Actually, after looking round the internet I have identified this as > > the start of anchorworm, which this fish and, now I have looked at > > other recently stocked fish in the local Wal-Mart where this came > > from, seem to have. This was the only fish with it at the time and I > > was told by the staff that it was an injury.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 42988	From: moiragrubb2000	Date: 8/29/2009
Subject: Re: oscar ill

--- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Steve Szabo" <steve@...> wrote: >unless i can isolate my oscar im not sure i can put epsom salts in tank what would the affect be on my plec i could move my sharks as i was thinking of doing that anyway mo > Mo, > > I do not recall if you had stated how much water you change when you do a water change, but, since it seems your water parameters are not out of whack, if you go to multiple water changes in a week, change the amount to 10% and the amount of substrate you can clean in the time it takes for you to remove the 10%. > > If you follow the advice of using the Epsom salt, when you do the water change, first top off your tank to the normal level, wait a few minutes for the water to mix, then do the water change, adding the appropriate amount of salt for the amount of water you are adding. This will keep your dosage level. > > \\Steve// > > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of moiragrubb2000 > Sent: Friday, August 28, 2009 5:56 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: oscar ill > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Steve Szabo" <steve@> wrote: > >one of my posts appears to have dissapeared so just to fill in the gaps my nitrate reading is 20 I clean filters weekly alternating each one gravel clean 20 to 25 per cent at least once a week. Intend to up this if I was doing 2 to 3 a week how much water would I take out i have never had any water issues with this tank and dont want to upset the balance by taking out to much water. My problem at the moment is as my oscar is not eating i cant get him to take veggies i did try him today, is there anything i can put in the tank i really think it has got aomething to do with the freeze dried food as i have just introduced it lately the problem was that he was preferring that to his usual food how often should you feed freeze dried foods. Im very gratefull of all the replys sorry my posts are a bit disjointed but new to this thanks again appreciate any more advice > mo > > Mo, > > > > Try to feed him some vegetables. If you have not been soaking the freeze dried stuff before feeding, he may have a blockage, and vegetables will help him clear it out. > > > > \\Steve// > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of moira grubb > > Sent: Thursday, August 27, 2009 5:32 PM > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] oscar ill > > > > cheers bill the first thing i did was a water change and have been trying him with different foods chicken prawns etc never tried earthworms so i will try that next he is in a 5 foot tank i do regular water changes and filter maintenance when i was watching him earlier it looked like he had a sort of twitching of his head a kind of jerking although he might just be trying to tell me to stop staring at him lol i do actually feed him quite a varied diet but only introduced the freeze dried stuff about 7 wks ago which he loved was just worried this might have caused a problem  is there any medication you could suggest he is definately under the weather and not his usual self thanks again mo > > > > --- On Thu, 27/8/09, bill 1433 <warrenprint@> wrote: > > > > From: bill 1433 <warrenprint@> > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] oscar ill > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > Date: Thursday, 27 August, 2009, 10:01 PM > > > > Hi Mo! > > > > My name is Bill and a few thousand years ago (just kidding, but along time) I raised Oscars.  Many people are of the firm belief that Oscars are real pigs and will eat darn near anything.  While that may be true to a certain extent, they do like a change of menu from time to time and the same diet without any variation at all is not good for any fish including the Discus! > > > > While we are talking about the front door, lets go around the back door for a moment.  The fishes "bodily functions" are all in proper working order, I would assume? > > > > Now for Oscars house?  Does he has a large enough tank with plenty of room?  One Oscar= 1 55 gallon tank at least, a 100 would be better if tank mates are present. > > > > Next, how about your water changes and general upkeep of the tank?  Try a 25% water change first as well as a change in diet.  Have you ever fed him small, good old fashioned earthworms?  Oscars love them.  To an Oscar, space is the big thing.  What is the size of the tank, not just gallons but physical size?  A standard 55 at 4 feet long is fine for 1 Oscar but with tankmates?  A 5 footer that is about 18 inches wide to allow him room to swim and turn around would be better and a 6 foot job at a 125 gallons would be the best. > > > > Bill > > > > > > > > --- On Thu, 8/27/09, moiragrubb2000 <moiragrubb2000@ yahoo.co. uk> wrote: > > > > > > > > From: moiragrubb2000 <moiragrubb2000@ yahoo.co. uk> > > Subject: [AquaticLife] oscar ill > > To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com > > Date: Thursday, August 27, 2009, 4:25 PM > > > > hi i have been a member of this group for a while and find it interesting and informative just reading the e mails this is the first time ive had to ask for help i have an oscar  he is in an established tank had him about 4 years he is about 6 yrs old. this last few days he is not eating usually comes up to hand feed all water paramaters fine and cant see anything physically wrong but he definately not his usual self he shares his tank with 2 red sharks and a pleco all been in tank 4 yrs other fish fine only thing thats changed is i have been feeding him freeze dried river shrimp and krill since he has took a liking to it along with frozen blood worm and cichlid pellets not all at once obviously could it have anything to do with freeze dried food would appreciate any feedback ,suggestions on what i csn try as completely at a loss have put in some paragon oxygen tonic at the moment tonight he did make an effort to pick up some gravel and throw it at his > > > > tank mates but not interested in eating, any help would be appreciated, thanks, mo > > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 42989	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 8/29/2009
Subject: Re: Cycling and Nitrite

Bill, It is very easy. All you need to do is to memorize all the <Alt>nnnn sequences for the ASCII characters of all the fonts you use that are not represented on your keyboard. Since these upper, for the most part, ASCII characters vary from font to font, you then need to use the proper font so you can represent them correctly in an e-mail you are typing in your e-mail program. If the same font exists on the reader's computer, they will see the character that is meant, otherwise they will see a strange character representation that is represented for the font they are currently using, or they will see what is effectively a blank space. If that seems like an impossible task, then you might want to keep an ASCII chart at hand to refer to. If it is too hard to keep track of the ASCII chart, then just use Microsoft's character map included with your version of Windows, select your font, and select the character you need, copy and paste the character in your text. \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of bill 1433 Sent: Friday, August 28, 2009 11:52 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: Cycling and Nitrite And just let you off easy \\Steve//, I'm not even going to ask how you got "Neßler" to type out! <g> Bill --- On Fri, 8/28/09, Steve Szabo <steve@...> wrote: > From: Steve Szabo <steve@...> > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: Cycling and Nitrite > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Date: Friday, August 28, 2009, 11:40 PM > You mentioned the possibility of > using Amquel. Should you choose to do so, please realize > that Amquel is no longer supplied to Kordon by its > originator, whose products are now sold through Hikari USA > (www.hikariusa.com) and many have reported problems when > using the newer Amquel Plus product. > > Also be aware that when using many products of this sort, > you should not use a Nessler's test kit to measure ammonia, > but a salicylate ammonia test kit. You can easily tell which > you have by the color that is generated for your readings. > Nessler's generates a yellow to brown color, while > salicylate kits generate a green color. Test kits are often > not labeled clearly enough for the average bear to determine > which kit they are getting, so look at the color chart > before buying. The problem is that the Nessler kit will give > you a false positive reading since it measures total ammonia > (NH3 and NH4+), not just the toxic form of ammonia (NH3). > > Also, the Winkler oxygen test will give a lower reading, > should you be testing for oxygen levels in your tank, pond, > etc. > > There are also certain chemicals and dyes used in aquaria > that should not be used if you are using an ammonia > transforming chemical in your tank.  Be sure to check > the data sheet of any product like this you use for > contraindications. > > For those of you who are really interested, Nessler is > really spelled Neßler That would be Ne<Latin small > letter sharp s>ler, which is the German spelling. > > \\Steve// > > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] > On Behalf Of robbrouse > Sent: Friday, August 28, 2009 6:56 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Cycling and Nitrite > > Yes sorry nitrites is was at 5.0 for several days. > > I will NOT be adding fish this weekend as planned. Too much > time and money involved to kill helpless creatures at this > point. > > I started another tap water base line and checked it twice > and I do have nitrate in my water as well 5.0 > > So my tap water base line is. > > Ammonia 0 > Nitr(I)tes .50 > Niotr(A)te 5.0 > Ph 7.8 > KH 4. - NEW Test Kit > GH 11 - New test Kit > > Did all the test 3 times to make sure reading were right. > > I will be getting the API Water Conditioner soon  I > have Aqueon right now. > > I also have some doubts about the cycle as of now as we > have found out it's not ready yet. That's is why we test out > water to make sure it's safe. > > I did go though and remove the carbon today. Now non of the > filters have carbon in it. I left the bro wheels as well as > the Bio-Max Rings in the filters.  The article l I read > did not say anything about removing the carbon. Bit it is > done as of now. > > When I removed the Marineland I decided to cut it open and > see and there was nothing but black carbon in there.. The > same with the canister filet. > > No the plants are all fake. I have been looking into live > plants but I do remember not to use them for the fishless > cycle. > > A side note I was unable to cut the media like you > did  on your blog. I might just snag some filter media > and use it. As you know the Marineland filter has baskets so > to speak I could add carbon to that if needed > > Recap. > > Right now carbon is out. Ammonia is .25 and was dose this > morning at 8:00 ish. Nitrite  Is still running high. I > removed all the carbon from the filters.  I had a > neighbor let me borrow some Amquel it did remove the nitrite > but not the ammonia so I really don't see that as a good > product to use. I filled a gallon jug and did my base line > and then added 1 drop of ammonia and tested again the > nitrite was 0 but the ammonia was still .5.  I just > need to finish a proper fishless cycle. . > > Again did I miss anything you asked? Id so please let me > know. I'm just trying tot do what's right for the fish. If > it's 1 week or 6 weeks I'm more than willing to wait it > out. > > Robb > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, > "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@...> wrote: > > > > OK... you need to be certain of what you type or I > cannot be certain of how > > to answer.  > > > > In the second paragraph, you mention "nitrates spiked > (was at 5.0 for > > several days)" and I'm presuming you meant > nitrItes???  The nitrAtes is the > > end product of the nitrogen cycle... at least for the > purposes of fishless > > cycling a tank.  Every day that you add ammonia, > that ammonia is converted > > to nitrIte.  Then the nitrIte is converted to > nitrAte.  Ammonia and nitrIte > > is toxic to fish.  NitrAte is only dangerous at > very high levels, over > > 100ppm but we strive to keep them under 40ppm or even > under 20ppm by doing > > our weekly 25% PWC's, using plants, etc.... once the > tank is stocked and > > running.  During a fishless cycle, there is NO > NEED to do a PWC unless > > certain things happen like a stall in the > cycling.  This usually only > > happens with very low KH water, which is not present > in your case. > > > > Your PWC's will NOT raise your nitrItes to any major > level... even with a > > 100% water change, the nitrItes would only go to > 0.5ppm so a 25% PWC would > > only raise them to 0.125ppm, which might not even show > up on our test kits. > > > > I'm not sure why your nitrItes spiked from 0.0ppm to > 5.0ppm after doing a > > PWC unless you shocked the nitrifying bacteria or did > not fully dechlor the > > water or something.  Unless you can replicate > that event, I have no clue > > what happened.  As I've stated, doing a PWC will > NOT raise your nitrItes to > > 5.0ppm since your tap water only has 0.5ppm of > nitrItes in it.  It simply is > > NOT possible from a chemistry or math perspective... > unless something else > > happened. > > > > Please do NOT get fish yet.  Continue your > fishless cycling for a few more > > days and lets make sure things are working > properly.  DO NOT do any PWC's > > while you continue the testing.  Lets make sure > things are working properly > > and then you can plan your next step. > > > > Remember that I had some doubts about your fishless > cycle from the beginning > > after you stated that you started from scratch and it > was fully cycling in > > less than two weeks.... but then I thought that maybe > your 0.5ppm of > > nitrItes in your tap water might have helped to jump > start things.  Because > > of all of the weird fluctuations in your numbers, I'm > very uncertain that > > your tank is cycling properly.  Unless I see your > nitrAtes start to rise, > > then I have to suspect something in your filter is > removing the > > ammonia/nitrite/nitrate or you are not testing > properly or your test kit is > > bad.  This is a chemical process that HAS TO > FOLLOW certain physiological > > processes, much like math where 1 + 1 + 1 = 3.  > Even in public schools, 1 + > > 1 + 1 still equals 3 and this is the only answer that > is correct.  With the > > nitrogen cycle, ammonia is converted to nitrIte is > converted to nitrAte and > > then the nitrAte is kept at a safe level by doing > PWC's, using plants and/or > > having advanced filtration methods where > denitrification of the nitrates can > > be done.  For us, we use PWC's and plants to help > keep the nitrates at a > > safe level below 40ppm. > > > > You should have removed the carbon when you started > fishless cycling.  ALL > > of the fishless cycling articles that I've read have > this as one of the > > steps.  I'm not sure it hurts very much but I > guess it does or they wouldn't > > have this as one of their steps.  Further, there > is NO NEED to run carbon in > > a filter system even with fish, much less without fish > in a tank.  It's just > > another way that the filter companies try to separate > people from their > > hard-earned money.  They must think they are the > Guv'ment or something. ;-) > > > > If your nitrAtes have never been over 10ppm, then > either your testing is > > compromised or something else is going wrong.  > For example, in a fully > > stocked tank, the fish put out around 5ppm of ammonia > each day.  After a > > week of this and with no plants or filter media to > remove the nitrogenous > > compounds, the nitrates would be over 20ppm, possibly > higher.  Since you > > were dosing the tank with 5ppm, twice a day, your > nitrates should be well > > over 40ppm, probably MUCH HIGHER and you are not > seeing this figure.  Look > > at your nitrate test instructions.  Were you > shaking the bottles prior to > > testing?   Nitrate bottle #2 says to > shake for at least 30 seconds but it > > should be more like 1 minute or more if the bottle has > been sitting for a > > long time.  If you did not do this each time, > prior to testing, your nitrate > > bottle #2 is probably compromised and will NEVER give > you accurate readings > > again.  See if you can pick up another Nitrate > test kit and shake it like > > crazy before using it and lets make sure your nitrates > are correct. > > > > As far as filter cartridges, MANY of them, usually > Tetra or TopFin brand > > actually have Zeolite inside of the filter cartridges > so many fish keepers > > do not even realize this.  I don't think that > Marineland has started doing > > this but then I haven't bought any filter cartridges > for any of my HOB's in > > many years so I'm not sure what they might be up > to.  If I know them, they > > would have started throwing this crap in their filters > to force you to have > > to trash the filters and buy new ones more often. > > > > Last but not least, do you have live plants in your > tank?  This is another > > thing that IS NOT in the instructions for fishless > cycling but I've seen > > people do it and it only messes up the fishless > cycling process.  Your > > carbon could also be doing this so please remove the > carbon for these next > > few days.  The other reason you should not use > carbon when fishless cycling > > is that some of your good bacteria would then be > growing on the carbon and > > since carbon gets thrown away every few weeks, you > would be trashing the > > bacteria you worked so hard to grow.  By not > using carbon, it forces the > > good bacteria to grow on the Bio-Wheels and other > filter media that will be > > staying in the tank, not getting trashed. > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > > (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are > listed on the right > > side, alphabetically under Labels and also under > Archives by Year, Month) > > > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 42990	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 8/29/2009
Subject: Re: Question - Silver Tip Shark

Lenny, I checked to see who Margie was using as an ISP, and it is not the one that is known to cause problems with mail sent to Yahoo! Groups. Why not throw this over to outlook Users to see what may come up? \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Lenny V. aka GoldLenny Sent: Saturday, August 29, 2009 2:31 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Question - Silver Tip Shark \\Steve//, I looked at my Gmail webmail page and the same thing is showing up there. This isn't happening with her first post, only with the embedded replies below her reply. I have Outlook set up to save ALL messages on the Gmail servers since there is little or no limit to the amount of mail I can save on Gmail servers so the original emails are all still there, going back many years. Something I see in this email (your reply), is that when I opened the email to full screen on my computer using OL2003 and when opening the IE8 page for Gmail to the full size of the monitor, your and my typing expanded to the full length of the page (or the full width of the Gmail borders) while her typing has line breaks about 2/3rds of the page so her sentences get chopped to the next line for one or two words, then another line break and the sentence continues on another line with that line ending short and one or two words move down to the next line, then a line break to the next line. That is part of the appearance issue but then, further down in her reply where my or Ray's reply is located, it loses ALL of the Paragraph breaks and line breaks of those replies, that she was replying to, so that those replies becomes just one long run-on looking paragraph, even including my signature, email header info, etc. Since it's showing up the same way on the Gmail webmail page, and her replies to Ray are also showing these same shortened line formatting. Ray's typing expands to the full width of my monitor, at least within the borders of the Gmail webpage (and on OL2003) whereas her typing stops around 2/3rd's of the way before reaching the Gmail bordering that would normally cause a line break. I could send you a series of Print Screens if you want to see what I am seeing or use a virtual connection (or whatever it's called by you tech support guys) where you could see my computer screen live. I use LogMeIn to do this on my computers but I know Microsoft has this software on Windows XP, et al. I use Comodo Internet Security and it doesn't scan every incoming email like AVG and other AV programs do. It only worries or alerts on an email if I was to try and open an attachment that is infected. Gmail also scans all of my incoming emails and blocks all the SPAM and infections so between the two of them, I NEVER get any infected emails or attachments via email. Of course, I also have OL2003 set up to NOT display images or HTML without my express permission as well so over 90% of my mail is read in plain text with only a few of them that I might convert to HTML and download images if it's an email from a previously known trusted source and can't be read in plain text or if I actually want to see the "pretty" HTML formatting or images. ;-) These security measures that I use for my incoming emails are not affecting any of my other incoming emails ALTHOUGH I do recall seeing something like this when folks (from this group and other Yahoo Groups) reply from their Blackberry's where their reply will end and the email header they were replying to continues on the same line that their reply ended instead of their being line breaks. I do not remember if the rest of the email was also garbled, just the header. I figured this was because they were not inserting a couple of Paragraph separators since they were replying from a Blackberry. I'll have to pay more attention to the next reply I get from someone on a Blackberry. When you get this reply in your OL, open it full screen and scroll down below your reply (below) and while the first paragraph of my reply (below yours) has a couple of formatting quirks, the rest of my reply looks normal BUT when I get down to Margie's reply (below mine), the formatting quirks really kick in BIG TIME and her typing does not expand to the full width of the page like ours is showing up. I'm not sure if she uses the webmail interface with ATT.net to do her emailing or if she uses an email client (program) on her computer to handle her emailing. Of course, I'm really only familiar with OE and OL so if she is using Thunderbird or some other email client, you would have to chime in if there is something within that program. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Steve Szabo Sent: Friday, August 28, 2009 9:11 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Question - Silver Tip Shark Lenny, Margie's messages are coming through fine with me, even via VPN over a Verizon EVDO connection. If this is only happening to Margie's messages, I have not a clue as to what is going on, or where it is getting munged. If you do not already, use the setting in outlook to save messages on the server for a day or two, so you can go up open the server via the ISP's web mail connection to check the messages there, to see if they are munged when they reach your ISP's mail server. If they are OK there, look at you're A/V solution--shut it down from scanning e-mail, or roll the definitions back a couple of days, if you can, and see if this makes a difference--meanwhile, you'll need to keep this thread going, and Margie answering, since this will not fixed messages already munged. \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Lenny V. aka GoldLenny Sent: Friday, August 28, 2009 5:17 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com; 'Margie' Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Question - Silver Tip Shark Well, something in your computer, security software or something is changing the formatting of your emails and removing Paragraph separators, line breaks, inserting line breaks, etc.. Do you use webmail at the ATT.net website or do you use Outlook, Outlook Express, Thunderbird, etc., to read and reply to your email? There are some settings in these various website and software that can affect some things but not usually to the degree that yours is doing right now. Maybe \\Steve// will chime in if he's seen this before. I've seen lots of weird formatting issues in email but never this one. I am also sending you a copy of this email off-list and attaching a copy of a Print-Screen from my end so you can see how even the email you just sent is all garbled looking, with sentences ending in the middle of a line and then restarting on the next line. This is only happening to emails that I am receiving from you through the group so I'm not sure what is causing it. Anyhow... back to the fish... Always, ALWAYS, when interested in a certain fish, write down the common name, the scientific name, if available, a description of the fish and what ever info the store has about the fish as far as tank size, fish size, etc.... maybe even take a picture of the fish. Then come out here and post the info and picture and you will get more appropriate advice from people that are not trying to sell you something... just honest, unbiased information. If there is only one fish left that you want, put a deposit down and have them hold it for you... then come do your research and if they have the fish mislabeled or have inaccurate info about tank or fish size, then they would have to give you back your money... or at the very least, a full store credit... or use the squeaky wheel method until they do. I recently had to raise 40 kinds of hell.. heck, maybe 50 kinds of hell inside of my local Sprint Store to get them to remove an overcharge from my phone bill. After 10 minutes of raising hell and after they asked me to leave the store and I refused until I got to speak to the manager, I was quickly taken care of and the over charge was removed. Of course, I only had to do this because the AR person on the phone was too incompetent to do it over the phone. (AR = Anal Retentive. LOL) After it was all over, I chuckled and told them it would have been a lot simpler to us all if they would have just did the right thing in the first place. The manager agreed... although in the back of his head, he was probably calling me a lot worse than a squeaky wheel or an AR customer. LOL Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month)

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 42991	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 8/29/2009
Subject: Re: Cycling and Nitrite

Or just Americanize it and type it with the "ss". ;-) And if my memory of German I & II classes from high school is still accurate, that letter, ß, is called "eszett" and is an extra letter over the standard English alphabet. Another "extra" German letter is the umlaut which affects the pronunciation of the a, o and u when there is an umlaut over those letters. This Wiki page explains more and even has a playable audio file of a German speaker using these extra letters. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/German_alphabet Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Steve Szabo Sent: Saturday, August 29, 2009 4:16 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: Cycling and Nitrite Bill, It is very easy. All you need to do is to memorize all the <Alt>nnnn sequences for the ASCII characters of all the fonts you use that are not represented on your keyboard. Since these upper, for the most part, ASCII characters vary from font to font, you then need to use the proper font so you can represent them correctly in an e-mail you are typing in your e-mail program. If the same font exists on the reader's computer, they will see the character that is meant, otherwise they will see a strange character representation that is represented for the font they are currently using, or they will see what is effectively a blank space. If that seems like an impossible task, then you might want to keep an ASCII chart at hand to refer to. If it is too hard to keep track of the ASCII chart, then just use Microsoft's character map included with your version of Windows, select your font, and select the character you need, copy and paste the character in your text. \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of bill 1433 Sent: Friday, August 28, 2009 11:52 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: Cycling and Nitrite And just let you off easy \\Steve//, I'm not even going to ask how you got "Neßler" to type out! <g> Bill --- On Fri, 8/28/09, Steve Szabo <steve@...> wrote: > From: Steve Szabo <steve@...> > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: Cycling and Nitrite > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Date: Friday, August 28, 2009, 11:40 PM You mentioned the possibility > of using Amquel. Should you choose to do so, please realize that > Amquel is no longer supplied to Kordon by its originator, whose > products are now sold through Hikari USA > (www.hikariusa.com) and many have reported problems when using the > newer Amquel Plus product. > > Also be aware that when using many products of this sort, you should > not use a Nessler's test kit to measure ammonia, but a salicylate > ammonia test kit. You can easily tell which you have by the color that > is generated for your readings. > Nessler's generates a yellow to brown color, while salicylate kits > generate a green color. Test kits are often not labeled clearly enough > for the average bear to determine which kit they are getting, so look > at the color chart before buying. The problem is that the Nessler kit > will give you a false positive reading since it measures total ammonia > (NH3 and NH4+), not just the toxic form of ammonia (NH3). > > Also, the Winkler oxygen test will give a lower reading, should you be > testing for oxygen levels in your tank, pond, etc. > > There are also certain chemicals and dyes used in aquaria that should > not be used if you are using an ammonia transforming chemical in your > tank.  Be sure to check the data sheet of any product like this you > use for contraindications. > > For those of you who are really interested, Nessler is really spelled > Neßler That would be Ne<Latin small letter sharp s>ler, which is the > German spelling. > > \\Steve// > > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] > On Behalf Of robbrouse > Sent: Friday, August 28, 2009 6:56 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Cycling and Nitrite > > Yes sorry nitrites is was at 5.0 for several days. > > I will NOT be adding fish this weekend as planned. Too much time and > money involved to kill helpless creatures at this point. > > I started another tap water base line and checked it twice and I do > have nitrate in my water as well 5.0 > > So my tap water base line is. > > Ammonia 0 > Nitr(I)tes .50 > Niotr(A)te 5.0 > Ph 7.8 > KH 4. - NEW Test Kit > GH 11 - New test Kit > > Did all the test 3 times to make sure reading were right. > > I will be getting the API Water Conditioner soon  I have Aqueon right > now. > > I also have some doubts about the cycle as of now as we have found out > it's not ready yet. That's is why we test out water to make sure it's > safe. > > I did go though and remove the carbon today. Now non of the filters > have carbon in it. I left the bro wheels as well as the Bio-Max Rings > in the filters.  The article l I read did not say anything about > removing the carbon. Bit it is done as of now. > > When I removed the Marineland I decided to cut it open and see and > there was nothing but black carbon in there.. The same with the > canister filet. > > No the plants are all fake. I have been looking into live plants but I > do remember not to use them for the fishless cycle. > > A side note I was unable to cut the media like you did  on your blog. > I might just snag some filter media and use it. As you know the > Marineland filter has baskets so to speak I could add carbon to that > if needed > > Recap. > > Right now carbon is out. Ammonia is .25 and was dose this morning at > 8:00 ish. Nitrite  Is still running high. I removed all the carbon > from the filters.  I had a neighbor let me borrow some Amquel it did > remove the nitrite but not the ammonia so I really don't see that as a > good product to use. I filled a gallon jug and did my base line and > then added 1 drop of ammonia and tested again the nitrite was 0 but > the ammonia was still .5.  I just need to finish a proper fishless > cycle. . > > Again did I miss anything you asked? Id so please let me know. I'm > just trying tot do what's right for the fish. If it's 1 week or 6 > weeks I'm more than willing to wait it out. > > Robb > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, > "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@...> wrote: > > > > OK... you need to be certain of what you type or I > cannot be certain of how > > to answer. > > > > In the second paragraph, you mention "nitrates spiked > (was at 5.0 for > > several days)" and I'm presuming you meant > nitrItes???  The nitrAtes is the > > end product of the nitrogen cycle... at least for the > purposes of fishless > > cycling a tank.  Every day that you add ammonia, > that ammonia is converted > > to nitrIte.  Then the nitrIte is converted to > nitrAte.  Ammonia and nitrIte > > is toxic to fish.  NitrAte is only dangerous at > very high levels, over > > 100ppm but we strive to keep them under 40ppm or even > under 20ppm by doing > > our weekly 25% PWC's, using plants, etc.... once the > tank is stocked and > > running.  During a fishless cycle, there is NO > NEED to do a PWC unless > > certain things happen like a stall in the > cycling.  This usually only > > happens with very low KH water, which is not present > in your case. > > > > Your PWC's will NOT raise your nitrItes to any major > level... even with a > > 100% water change, the nitrItes would only go to > 0.5ppm so a 25% PWC would > > only raise them to 0.125ppm, which might not even show > up on our test kits. > > > > I'm not sure why your nitrItes spiked from 0.0ppm to > 5.0ppm after doing a > > PWC unless you shocked the nitrifying bacteria or did > not fully dechlor the > > water or something.  Unless you can replicate > that event, I have no clue > > what happened.  As I've stated, doing a PWC will > NOT raise your nitrItes to > > 5.0ppm since your tap water only has 0.5ppm of > nitrItes in it.  It simply is > > NOT possible from a chemistry or math perspective... > unless something else > > happened. > > > > Please do NOT get fish yet.  Continue your > fishless cycling for a few more > > days and lets make sure things are working > properly.  DO NOT do any PWC's > > while you continue the testing.  Lets make sure > things are working properly > > and then you can plan your next step. > > > > Remember that I had some doubts about your fishless > cycle from the beginning > > after you stated that you started from scratch and it > was fully cycling in > > less than two weeks.... but then I thought that maybe > your 0.5ppm of > > nitrItes in your tap water might have helped to jump > start things.  Because > > of all of the weird fluctuations in your numbers, I'm > very uncertain that > > your tank is cycling properly.  Unless I see your > nitrAtes start to rise, > > then I have to suspect something in your filter is > removing the > > ammonia/nitrite/nitrate or you are not testing > properly or your test kit is > > bad.  This is a chemical process that HAS TO > FOLLOW certain physiological > > processes, much like math where 1 + 1 + 1 = 3. > Even in public schools, 1 + > > 1 + 1 still equals 3 and this is the only answer that > is correct.  With the > > nitrogen cycle, ammonia is converted to nitrIte is > converted to nitrAte and > > then the nitrAte is kept at a safe level by doing > PWC's, using plants and/or > > having advanced filtration methods where > denitrification of the nitrates can > > be done.  For us, we use PWC's and plants to help > keep the nitrates at a > > safe level below 40ppm. > > > > You should have removed the carbon when you started > fishless cycling.  ALL > > of the fishless cycling articles that I've read have > this as one of the > > steps.  I'm not sure it hurts very much but I > guess it does or they wouldn't > > have this as one of their steps.  Further, there > is NO NEED to run carbon in > > a filter system even with fish, much less without fish > in a tank.  It's just > > another way that the filter companies try to separate > people from their > > hard-earned money.  They must think they are the > Guv'ment or something. ;-) > > > > If your nitrAtes have never been over 10ppm, then > either your testing is > > compromised or something else is going wrong. > For example, in a fully > > stocked tank, the fish put out around 5ppm of ammonia > each day.  After a > > week of this and with no plants or filter media to > remove the nitrogenous > > compounds, the nitrates would be over 20ppm, possibly > higher.  Since you > > were dosing the tank with 5ppm, twice a day, your > nitrates should be well > > over 40ppm, probably MUCH HIGHER and you are not > seeing this figure.  Look > > at your nitrate test instructions.  Were you > shaking the bottles prior to > > testing?   Nitrate bottle #2 says to > shake for at least 30 seconds but it > > should be more like 1 minute or more if the bottle has > been sitting for a > > long time.  If you did not do this each time, > prior to testing, your nitrate > > bottle #2 is probably compromised and will NEVER give > you accurate readings > > again.  See if you can pick up another Nitrate > test kit and shake it like > > crazy before using it and lets make sure your nitrates > are correct. > > > > As far as filter cartridges, MANY of them, usually > Tetra or TopFin brand > > actually have Zeolite inside of the filter cartridges > so many fish keepers > > do not even realize this.  I don't think that > Marineland has started doing > > this but then I haven't bought any filter cartridges > for any of my HOB's in > > many years so I'm not sure what they might be up > to.  If I know them, they > > would have started throwing this crap in their filters > to force you to have > > to trash the filters and buy new ones more often. > > > > Last but not least, do you have live plants in your > tank?  This is another > > thing that IS NOT in the instructions for fishless > cycling but I've seen > > people do it and it only messes up the fishless > cycling process.  Your > > carbon could also be doing this so please remove the > carbon for these next > > few days.  The other reason you should not use > carbon when fishless cycling > > is that some of your good bacteria would then be > growing on the carbon and > > since carbon gets thrown away every few weeks, you > would be trashing the > > bacteria you worked so hard to grow.  By not > using carbon, it forces the > > good bacteria to grow on the Bio-Wheels and other > filter media that will be > > staying in the tank, not getting trashed. > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles > > referenced in above reply are > listed on the right > > side, alphabetically under Labels and also under > Archives by Year, Month)

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 42992	From: sevenspringss	Date: 8/29/2009
Subject: Re: oscar ill

Unfortunately, there's no magic wand that goes along with the epsom salt remedy for constipation in fish. It may take as little as 12 hours, or it may take 24 or even more hours -- if it works. As this is but one method of attepting a cure for intestinal blockage, it may not even work in all cases, but it's a well-recognize and old treatment towards effecting a cure. It's not 100% guaranteed, but neither are green peas; although this can be tried whether or not a fish is eating, whereas peas (often promoting bowel movements in fish) has little hope if the fish isn't eating. Percentage of water to take out? I'm guessing you mean as the part of regular PWC (partial water changes) of normal aquarium maintenance. Normally, hobbyists change from 1/4 to 1/3 of their tank weekly, but this also depends on the bioload. You could try 15% to 20% twice a week, testing as you go for the usual ammonia, nitrite and nitrate parameters which we are trying to keep at safe levels when doing these PWC's -- then go from there according to these tests results, either increasing or decreasing as the case may be. If you prefer doing smaller, more frequent PWC's, start off with 10% every other day. Ray --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "moiragrubb2000" <moiragrubb2000@...> wrote: > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, sevenspringss@ wrote: > > my problem at the moment is isolating him how long would the epsom salts take to work do you think . the longer he is going without eating the more worried im getting could you also answer my question on how much percent of water safe to take out if i was doing 2 to 3 a week cheers mo > > Mo, At first thought, I too figured this problem may have had something to > > do with the freeze dried food, but that seemed too "obvious," so I was > > looking for possible water quality issues. You're apparently maintaining this > > aquarium properly though, so we come right back to this food. For treating > > with Epsom Salts, try using 1 Tbp per 5 gallons, if it seems he's constipated > > -- and if you can isolate him. Pleco's don't like too much table salt and > > I'm not sure if they take kindly to Epsom Salts either. For treating initial > > stages of some internal issues, some hobbyists increase the amount of Epsom > > Salts slowly to 1 tsp per gallon (or more) -- that's 1 2/3 Tsp per 5 > > gallons -- but the fish must be observed that he doesn't get stressed. Ray > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 42993	From: kl_whitney	Date: 8/29/2009
Subject: dimensions?

Hi all, First off, as this is a very active list, I would prefer off list responses so I don't have to sort through the daily digests. FINALLY transferred schools. I checked the policy on pets with both the RD and the housing office. I've moved into a dorm that allows a single fish as a pet...but not aquariums. So I'm stuck with a fishbowl. I was wondering the dimensions of an average four gallon (want the biggest one I can get for the well being of the fish) fishbowl so that I can buy the right sized fake plant and the right amount of glass pebbles. Will a fish be ok with just glass pebbles, or will I need special gravel? I really want a small black moor goldfish as opposed to a beta, IDK, I just don't like betas. Yes I know that a goldfish would prefer to live in a 10-20 gallon aquarium. It's just that I can't give this hypothetical fish that right now, but if he gets big I'll definitely put him in a 20 gallon tank. When he outgrows the bowl, I might give him to my sister, who has an empty 10 gallon since her frog died. I bet she'd love that. I think she misses the frog even though she still has the tarantula in the 10 gallon terrarium next to the empty one. The 20 gallon tall that's mine was recently used to house a snake (he outgrew that one and now lives in a 55 gallon) so I can't put a fish in there unless I take the sticky backed heat pad off. It's not a heat pad rated to get anywhere near water. Yes I know that my sister and I have weird pets. I will have to buy my fish at (cringing because it's a bad place to buy fish) Walmart b/c it's the only thing remotely close to a pet store in town. I've found out when they get their next fish shipment and I will go within a week of that so that the fish won't have to live at Walmart very long. I would definitely get a ride to Walmart from a friend who's going as opposed to taking the campus shuttle, cause I don't want to subject any animal to a 10 passenger van ride. One of my suitemates (I'm in a four bedroom suite so I have my own room but share all other living spaces) is thinking of getting a fish too, but she goes home on the weekends so I would end up watching her fish when I'm not home for a long weekend. So there would be two fish in my room on weekends, but one fish on weekdays. Anyway, thanks in advance and say hi to all your fish for me! -Kathy

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 42994	From: moiragrubb2000	Date: 8/29/2009
Subject: Re: oscar ill

--- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "sevenspringss" <sevenspringss@...> wrote: > thanks ray were the measurements for epsom salts in imp gallons or us gallons mo > Unfortunately, there's no magic wand that goes along with the epsom salt remedy for constipation in fish. It may take as little as 12 hours, or it may take 24 or even more hours -- if it works. As this is but one method of attepting a cure for intestinal blockage, it may not even work in all cases, but it's a well-recognize and old treatment towards effecting a cure. It's not 100% guaranteed, but neither are green peas; although this can be tried whether or not a fish is eating, whereas peas (often promoting bowel movements in fish) has little hope if the fish isn't eating. > > Percentage of water to take out? I'm guessing you mean as the part of regular PWC (partial water changes) of normal aquarium maintenance. Normally, hobbyists change from 1/4 to 1/3 of their tank weekly, but this also depends on the bioload. You could try 15% to 20% twice a week, testing as you go for the usual ammonia, nitrite and nitrate parameters which we are trying to keep at safe levels when doing these PWC's -- then go from there according to these tests results, either increasing or decreasing as the case may be. If you prefer doing smaller, more frequent PWC's, start off with 10% every other day. Ray > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "moiragrubb2000" <moiragrubb2000@> wrote: > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, sevenspringss@ wrote: > > > my problem at the moment is isolating him how long would the epsom salts take to work do you think . the longer he is going without eating the more worried im getting could you also answer my question on how much percent of water safe to take out if i was doing 2 to 3 a week cheers mo > > > > > > > Mo, At first thought, I too figured this problem may have had something to > > > do with the freeze dried food, but that seemed too "obvious," so I was > > > looking for possible water quality issues. You're apparently maintaining this > > > aquarium properly though, so we come right back to this food. For treating > > > with Epsom Salts, try using 1 Tbp per 5 gallons, if it seems he's constipated > > > -- and if you can isolate him. Pleco's don't like too much table salt and > > > I'm not sure if they take kindly to Epsom Salts either. For treating initial > > > stages of some internal issues, some hobbyists increase the amount of Epsom > > > Salts slowly to 1 tsp per gallon (or more) -- that's 1 2/3 Tsp per 5 > > > gallons -- but the fish must be observed that he doesn't get stressed. Ray > > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 42995	From: sevenspringss	Date: 8/29/2009
Subject: Re: oscar ill

Those measurements using Epsom Salt in amounts of water are in U.S. Gallons. This often works and is sure worth a try. As you have no other large tank to isolate either the Oscar or the Pleco, you may try the treatment in your 70 Imperial Gallon (84 U.S, Gallon) tank, starting out at half-strength (1 Tbp. per 10 U.S, Gallons). Reports I've read indicate that Plecos will be fine at 1 Tbs. (Tablespoon) of Epsom Salt per 5 U.S. gallons (and even more), but it's always easier on any fish when introducing a foreign substance to graduate it in increments over time. Scale-less fish do not react to Epsom Salt (Magnesium Sulfate) in as a severe manner as they do with the use of Table Salt (Sodium Chloride), as it's the chloride the penetrates the skin with burning/toxic results when using Table Salt, whereas Epsom Salt's sulfate may promote irritation of the skin in higher concentrations. As long as this concentration is kept low enough, it will not irritate him. The 1 Tbs. per 10 U.S. gallons may be all that is necessary to have a positive effect on your Oscar and is were I would start -- or even less, but it's good to know it can be increased and still be safe for the Pleco when kept below the afore-mentioned amount. As with any unknown process in how it may effect a fish, it's best to observe for stress in which case you may do a 1/3 PWC to decrease the concentration should the need arise, although this should not be necessary -- but just to know what can be done if needed. Give the 1 Tbs per 10 U.S. gallons (or less) time (at least 12 hours) to work before considering increasing the concentration. Some hobbyists report success with smaller gut-blocked fish with using as little as 1/8 tsp. per U.S. Gallon, but since other reports indicate using as much as double the amount I've indicated, I find these extremes of much less and much more to be excesses (too little or too much) to one direction or the other to effect a treatment. Ray --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "moiragrubb2000" <moiragrubb2000@...> wrote: > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "sevenspringss" <sevenspringss@> wrote: > > > thanks ray were the measurements for epsom salts in imp gallons or us gallons mo > > > Unfortunately, there's no magic wand that goes along with the epsom salt remedy for constipation in fish. It may take as little as 12 hours, or it may take 24 or even more hours -- if it works. As this is but one method of attepting a cure for intestinal blockage, it may not even work in all cases, but it's a well-recognize and old treatment towards effecting a cure. It's not 100% guaranteed, but neither are green peas; although this can be tried whether or not a fish is eating, whereas peas (often promoting bowel movements in fish) has little hope if the fish isn't eating. > > > > Percentage of water to take out? I'm guessing you mean as the part of regular PWC (partial water changes) of normal aquarium maintenance. Normally, hobbyists change from 1/4 to 1/3 of their tank weekly, but this also depends on the bioload. You could try 15% to 20% twice a week, testing as you go for the usual ammonia, nitrite and nitrate parameters which we are trying to keep at safe levels when doing these PWC's -- then go from there according to these tests results, either increasing or decreasing as the case may be. If you prefer doing smaller, more frequent PWC's, start off with 10% every other day. Ray > > > > > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "moiragrubb2000" <moiragrubb2000@> wrote: > > > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, sevenspringss@ wrote: > > > > my problem at the moment is isolating him how long would the epsom salts take to work do you think . the longer he is going without eating the more worried im getting could you also answer my question on how much percent of water safe to take out if i was doing 2 to 3 a week cheers mo > > > > > > > > > > > > Mo, At first thought, I too figured this problem may have had something to > > > > do with the freeze dried food, but that seemed too "obvious," so I was > > > > looking for possible water quality issues. You're apparently maintaining this > > > > aquarium properly though, so we come right back to this food. For treating > > > > with Epsom Salts, try using 1 Tbp per 5 gallons, if it seems he's constipated > > > > -- and if you can isolate him. Pleco's don't like too much table salt and > > > > I'm not sure if they take kindly to Epsom Salts either. For treating initial > > > > stages of some internal issues, some hobbyists increase the amount of Epsom > > > > Salts slowly to 1 tsp per gallon (or more) -- that's 1 2/3 Tsp per 5 > > > > gallons -- but the fish must be observed that he doesn't get stressed. Ray > > > > > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > > > > > > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 42996	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 8/29/2009
Subject: Re: dimensions?

Kathy, This list is pretty quiescent compared to some I belong to or have belonged to. It is my opinion that digests are a poor way of receiving list mail. If you receive individual e-mails, you can easily sort them in your e-mail reader, then do wholesale deletes for those whose subjects do not hold an immediate interest for you, though most threads will contain information that, while not relevant for you now, will be helpful at a later date. I get 200-300 messages each day to my home account. When I first sit down to read e-mail, I go through all the e-mail, highlighting those I will not be reading, and do a delete of all those messages. This, typically, will remove about a third of those messages. I'll then look at the few messages that have been sorted out to other folders, and then, once they have been dealt with, go back to the Inbox, starting with the earliest message start reading, and dealing with them. When I come upon a list message, I then sort by subject to read the whole thread at once. Seldom does it take me more than about 2 hours to go through all those messages, including replies, but not counting the time I spend watching the TV <g>. I'll also add that I seldom see more than one or two spam messages per week, due to the filtering methods I have in place. Spam seldom makes it to my Inbox, and what does, is filtered out by my last spam protection program. To move this discussion off list would do a disservice to others who may have the same predicament as you, or may need to have access to this information at a later date. Now, back to your main questions. Is there a definition of what consists of an aquarium at your school? If they have a definition, it would likely be a rectangular container, which then leaves you a lot of leeway to get around the rule, and get something larger than a bowl. If you intend to keep a goldfish, you are going to need something that will hold near 30 gallons, even a young fish, so that they have the room to grow and develop normally. I have a globe here, that when half full of water, holds a bit more than 10 gallons (it is now serving as a terrarium, but that is another story). The first thing you need to do is to find the largest container you can that will be within the allowable rules. Once you have done that, then we can start to advise you what then needs to be done to make it ready for fish. \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of kl_whitney Sent: Saturday, August 29, 2009 6:27 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] dimensions? Hi all, First off, as this is a very active list, I would prefer off list responses so I don't have to sort through the daily digests. FINALLY transferred schools. I checked the policy on pets with both the RD and the housing office. I've moved into a dorm that allows a single fish as a pet...but not aquariums. So I'm stuck with a fishbowl. I was wondering the dimensions of an average four gallon (want the biggest one I can get for the well being of the fish) fishbowl so that I can buy the right sized fake plant and the right amount of glass pebbles. Will a fish be ok with just glass pebbles, or will I need special gravel? I really want a small black moor goldfish as opposed to a beta, IDK, I just don't like betas. Yes I know that a goldfish would prefer to live in a 10-20 gallon aquarium. It's just that I can't give this hypothetical fish that right now, but if he gets big I'll definitely put him in a 20 gallon tank. When he outgrows the bowl, I might give him to my sister, who has an empty 10 gallon since her frog died. I bet she'd love that. I think she misses the frog even though she still has the tarantula in the 10 gallon terrarium next to the empty one. The 20 gallon tall that's mine was recently used to house a snake (he outgrew that one and now lives in a 55 gallon) so I can't put a fish in there unless I take the sticky backed heat pad off. It's not a heat pad rated to get anywhere near water. Yes I know that my sister and I have weird pets. I will have to buy my fish at (cringing because it's a bad place to buy fish) Walmart b/c it's the only thing remotely close to a pet store in town. I've found out when they get their next fish shipment and I will go within a week of that so that the fish won't have to live at Walmart very long. I would definitely get a ride to Walmart from a friend who's going as opposed to taking the campus shuttle, cause I don't want to subject any animal to a 10 passenger van ride. One of my suitemates (I'm in a four bedroom suite so I have my own room but share all other living spaces) is thinking of getting a fish too, but she goes home on the weekends so I would end up watching her fish when I'm not home for a long weekend. So there would be two fish in my room on weekends, but one fish on weekdays. Anyway, thanks in advance and say hi to all your fish for me! -Kathy

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 42997	From: bill 1433	Date: 8/29/2009
Subject: Re: Cycling and Nitrite

Hi \\Steve//, Yes, but that "memory part" was many years ago! Today with all the cob-webs, dust and debris in the old brain-housing assembly, it would be a lost issue. I really only met to compliment you on your "talent and knowledge".  There are few with that much understanding and fewer yet with the ability to use it properly.   On another issue, I had concerns over another problem, very computer based and not really for the group.  I would like to contact you off-list about it sometime?  I am more than aware of your time restraints.   Bill --- On Sat, 8/29/09, Steve Szabo <steve@...> wrote: > From: Steve Szabo <steve@...> > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: Cycling and Nitrite > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Date: Saturday, August 29, 2009, 5:16 AM > Bill, > > It is very easy. All you need to do is to memorize all the > <Alt>nnnn sequences for the ASCII characters of all > the fonts you use that are not represented on your keyboard. > Since these upper, for the most part, ASCII  characters > vary from font to font, you then need to use the proper font > so you can represent them correctly in an e-mail you are > typing in your e-mail program. If the same font exists on > the reader's computer, they will see the character that is > meant, otherwise they will see a strange character > representation that is represented for the font they are > currently using, or they will see what is effectively a > blank space. > > If that seems like an impossible task, then you might want > to keep an ASCII chart at hand to refer to. > > If it is too hard to keep track of the ASCII chart, then > just use Microsoft's character map included with your > version of Windows, select your font, and select the > character you need, copy and paste the character in your > text. > > \\Steve// > > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] > On Behalf Of bill 1433 > Sent: Friday, August 28, 2009 11:52 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: Cycling and Nitrite > > And just let you off easy \\Steve//, I'm not even going to > ask > how you got "Neßler" to type out! <g> > > Bill > > --- On Fri, 8/28/09, Steve Szabo <steve@...> > wrote: > > > From: Steve Szabo <steve@...> > > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: Cycling and Nitrite > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > Date: Friday, August 28, 2009, 11:40 PM > > You mentioned the possibility of > > using Amquel. Should you choose to do so, please > realize > > that Amquel is no longer supplied to Kordon by its > > originator, whose products are now sold through Hikari > USA > > (www.hikariusa.com) and many have reported problems > when > > using the newer Amquel Plus product. > > > > Also be aware that when using many products of this > sort, > > you should not use a Nessler's test kit to measure > ammonia, > > but a salicylate ammonia test kit. You can easily tell > which > > you have by the color that is generated for your > readings. > > Nessler's generates a yellow to brown color, while > > salicylate kits generate a green color. Test kits are > often > > not labeled clearly enough for the average bear to > determine > > which kit they are getting, so look at the color > chart > > before buying. The problem is that the Nessler kit > will give > > you a false positive reading since it measures total > ammonia > > (NH3 and NH4+), not just the toxic form of ammonia > (NH3). > > > > Also, the Winkler oxygen test will give a lower > reading, > > should you be testing for oxygen levels in your tank, > pond, > > etc. > > > > There are also certain chemicals and dyes used in > aquaria > > that should not be used if you are using an ammonia > > transforming chemical in your tank.  Be sure to > check > > the data sheet of any product like this you use for > > contraindications. > > > > For those of you who are really interested, Nessler > is > > really spelled Neßler That would be Ne<Latin > small > > letter sharp s>ler, which is the German spelling. > > > > \\Steve// > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] > > On Behalf Of robbrouse > > Sent: Friday, August 28, 2009 6:56 PM > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Cycling and Nitrite > > > > Yes sorry nitrites is was at 5.0 for several days. > > > > I will NOT be adding fish this weekend as planned. Too > much > > time and money involved to kill helpless creatures at > this > > point. > > > > I started another tap water base line and checked it > twice > > and I do have nitrate in my water as well 5.0 > > > > So my tap water base line is. > > > > Ammonia 0 > > Nitr(I)tes .50 > > Niotr(A)te 5.0 > > Ph 7.8 > > KH 4. - NEW Test Kit > > GH 11 - New test Kit > > > > Did all the test 3 times to make sure reading were > right. > > > > I will be getting the API Water Conditioner soon  I > > have Aqueon right now. > > > > I also have some doubts about the cycle as of now as > we > > have found out it's not ready yet. That's is why we > test out > > water to make sure it's safe. > > > > I did go though and remove the carbon today. Now non > of the > > filters have carbon in it. I left the bro wheels as > well as > > the Bio-Max Rings in the filters.  The article l I > read > > did not say anything about removing the carbon. Bit it > is > > done as of now. > > > > When I removed the Marineland I decided to cut it open > and > > see and there was nothing but black carbon in there.. > The > > same with the canister filet. > > > > No the plants are all fake. I have been looking into > live > > plants but I do remember not to use them for the > fishless > > cycle. > > > > A side note I was unable to cut the media like you > > did  on your blog. I might just snag some filter > media > > and use it. As you know the Marineland filter has > baskets so > > to speak I could add carbon to that if needed > > > > Recap. > > > > Right now carbon is out. Ammonia is .25 and was dose > this > > morning at 8:00 ish. Nitrite  Is still running high. > I > > removed all the carbon from the filters.  I had a > > neighbor let me borrow some Amquel it did remove the > nitrite > > but not the ammonia so I really don't see that as a > good > > product to use. I filled a gallon jug and did my base > line > > and then added 1 drop of ammonia and tested again the > > nitrite was 0 but the ammonia was still .5.  I just > > need to finish a proper fishless cycle. . > > > > Again did I miss anything you asked? Id so please let > me > > know. I'm just trying tot do what's right for the > fish. If > > it's 1 week or 6 weeks I'm more than willing to wait > it > > out. > > > > Robb > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, > > "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@...> wrote: > > > > > > OK... you need to be certain of what you type or > I > > cannot be certain of how > > > to answer.  > > > > > > In the second paragraph, you mention "nitrates > spiked > > (was at 5.0 for > > > several days)" and I'm presuming you meant > > nitrItes???  The nitrAtes is the > > > end product of the nitrogen cycle... at least for > the > > purposes of fishless > > > cycling a tank.  Every day that you add > ammonia, > > that ammonia is converted > > > to nitrIte.  Then the nitrIte is converted to > > nitrAte.  Ammonia and nitrIte > > > is toxic to fish.  NitrAte is only dangerous at > > very high levels, over > > > 100ppm but we strive to keep them under 40ppm or > even > > under 20ppm by doing > > > our weekly 25% PWC's, using plants, etc.... once > the > > tank is stocked and > > > running.  During a fishless cycle, there is NO > > NEED to do a PWC unless > > > certain things happen like a stall in the > > cycling.  This usually only > > > happens with very low KH water, which is not > present > > in your case. > > > > > > Your PWC's will NOT raise your nitrItes to any > major > > level... even with a > > > 100% water change, the nitrItes would only go to > > 0.5ppm so a 25% PWC would > > > only raise them to 0.125ppm, which might not even > show > > up on our test kits. > > > > > > I'm not sure why your nitrItes spiked from 0.0ppm > to > > 5.0ppm after doing a > > > PWC unless you shocked the nitrifying bacteria or > did > > not fully dechlor the > > > water or something.  Unless you can replicate > > that event, I have no clue > > > what happened.  As I've stated, doing a PWC > will > > NOT raise your nitrItes to > > > 5.0ppm since your tap water only has 0.5ppm of > > nitrItes in it.  It simply is > > > NOT possible from a chemistry or math > perspective... > > unless something else > > > happened. > > > > > > Please do NOT get fish yet.  Continue your > > fishless cycling for a few more > > > days and lets make sure things are working > > properly.  DO NOT do any PWC's > > > while you continue the testing.  Lets make sure > > things are working properly > > > and then you can plan your next step. > > > > > > Remember that I had some doubts about your > fishless > > cycle from the beginning > > > after you stated that you started from scratch > and it > > was fully cycling in > > > less than two weeks.... but then I thought that > maybe > > your 0.5ppm of > > > nitrItes in your tap water might have helped to > jump > > start things.  Because > > > of all of the weird fluctuations in your numbers, > I'm > > very uncertain that > > > your tank is cycling properly.  Unless I see > your > > nitrAtes start to rise, > > > then I have to suspect something in your filter > is > > removing the > > > ammonia/nitrite/nitrate or you are not testing > > properly or your test kit is > > > bad.  This is a chemical process that HAS TO > > FOLLOW certain physiological > > > processes, much like math where 1 + 1 + 1 = 3.  > > Even in public schools, 1 + > > > 1 + 1 still equals 3 and this is the only answer > that > > is correct.  With the > > > nitrogen cycle, ammonia is converted to nitrIte > is > > converted to nitrAte and > > > then the nitrAte is kept at a safe level by > doing > > PWC's, using plants and/or > > > having advanced filtration methods where > > denitrification of the nitrates can > > > be done.  For us, we use PWC's and plants to > help > > keep the nitrates at a > > > safe level below 40ppm. > > > > > > You should have removed the carbon when you > started > > fishless cycling.  ALL > > > of the fishless cycling articles that I've read > have > > this as one of the > > > steps.  I'm not sure it hurts very much but I > > guess it does or they wouldn't > > > have this as one of their steps.  Further, > there > > is NO NEED to run carbon in > > > a filter system even with fish, much less without > fish > > in a tank.  It's just > > > another way that the filter companies try to > separate > > people from their > > > hard-earned money.  They must think they are > the > > Guv'ment or something. ;-) > > > > > > If your nitrAtes have never been over 10ppm, > then > > either your testing is > > > compromised or something else is going wrong.  > > For example, in a fully > > > stocked tank, the fish put out around 5ppm of > ammonia > > each day.  After a > > > week of this and with no plants or filter media > to > > remove the nitrogenous > > > compounds, the nitrates would be over 20ppm, > possibly > > higher.  Since you > > > were dosing the tank with 5ppm, twice a day, > your > > nitrates should be well > > > over 40ppm, probably MUCH HIGHER and you are not > > seeing this figure.  Look > > > at your nitrate test instructions.  Were you > > shaking the bottles prior to > > > testing?   Nitrate bottle #2 says to > > shake for at least 30 seconds but it > > > should be more like 1 minute or more if the > bottle has > > been sitting for a > > > long time.  If you did not do this each time, > > prior to testing, your nitrate > > > bottle #2 is probably compromised and will NEVER > give > > you accurate readings > > > again.  See if you can pick up another Nitrate > > test kit and shake it like > > > crazy before using it and lets make sure your > nitrates > > are correct. > > > > > > As far as filter cartridges, MANY of them, > usually > > Tetra or TopFin brand > > > actually have Zeolite inside of the filter > cartridges > > so many fish keepers > > > do not even realize this.  I don't think that > > Marineland has started doing > > > this but then I haven't bought any filter > cartridges > > for any of my HOB's in > > > many years so I'm not sure what they might be up > > to.  If I know them, they > > > would have started throwing this crap in their > filters > > to force you to have > > > to trash the filters and buy new ones more > often. > > > > > > Last but not least, do you have live plants in > your > > tank?  This is another > > > thing that IS NOT in the instructions for > fishless > > cycling but I've seen > > > people do it and it only messes up the fishless > > cycling process.  Your > > > carbon could also be doing this so please remove > the > > carbon for these next > > > few days.  The other reason you should not use > > carbon when fishless cycling > > > is that some of your good bacteria would then be > > growing on the carbon and > > > since carbon gets thrown away every few weeks, > you > > would be trashing the > > > bacteria you worked so hard to grow.  By not > > using carbon, it forces the > > > good bacteria to grow on the Bio-Wheels and > other > > filter media that will be > > > staying in the tank, not getting trashed. > > > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > > > (Links to any articles referenced in above reply > are > > listed on the right > > > side, alphabetically under Labels and also under > > Archives by Year, Month) > > > > > > > > > ------------------------------------ > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when > replying, Thank You. > ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> > ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> > PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is > NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of > the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new > subject (was re: old subject)" <- > <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. > , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. > > If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of > unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by > clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the home page.  > > Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com > to receive the digest, which includes up to 25 posts at a > time in a single email > > Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com > for the No E-Mail option where you will still be able to > read messages on the group and post replies. > > Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com > to receive individual e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links > > >     mailto:AquaticLife-fullfeatured@yahoogroups.com > > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 42998	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 8/29/2009
Subject: Re: Cycling and Nitrite

Bill, Contact me off list any time. \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of bill 1433 Sent: Saturday, August 29, 2009 11:24 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: Cycling and Nitrite Hi \\Steve//, Yes, but that "memory part" was many years ago! Today with all the cob-webs, dust and debris in the old brain-housing assembly, it would be a lost issue. I really only met to compliment you on your "talent and knowledge".  There are few with that much understanding and fewer yet with the ability to use it properly.   On another issue, I had concerns over another problem, very computer based and not really for the group.  I would like to contact you off-list about it sometime?  I am more than aware of your time restraints.   Bill --- On Sat, 8/29/09, Steve Szabo <steve@...> wrote: > From: Steve Szabo <steve@...> > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: Cycling and Nitrite > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Date: Saturday, August 29, 2009, 5:16 AM > Bill, > > It is very easy. All you need to do is to memorize all the > <Alt>nnnn sequences for the ASCII characters of all > the fonts you use that are not represented on your keyboard. > Since these upper, for the most part, ASCII  characters > vary from font to font, you then need to use the proper font > so you can represent them correctly in an e-mail you are > typing in your e-mail program. If the same font exists on > the reader's computer, they will see the character that is > meant, otherwise they will see a strange character > representation that is represented for the font they are > currently using, or they will see what is effectively a > blank space. > > If that seems like an impossible task, then you might want > to keep an ASCII chart at hand to refer to. > > If it is too hard to keep track of the ASCII chart, then > just use Microsoft's character map included with your > version of Windows, select your font, and select the > character you need, copy and paste the character in your > text. > > \\Steve// > > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] > On Behalf Of bill 1433 > Sent: Friday, August 28, 2009 11:52 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: Cycling and Nitrite > > And just let you off easy \\Steve//, I'm not even going to > ask > how you got "Neßler" to type out! <g> > > Bill > > --- On Fri, 8/28/09, Steve Szabo <steve@...> > wrote: > > > From: Steve Szabo <steve@...> > > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: Cycling and Nitrite > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > Date: Friday, August 28, 2009, 11:40 PM > > You mentioned the possibility of > > using Amquel. Should you choose to do so, please > realize > > that Amquel is no longer supplied to Kordon by its > > originator, whose products are now sold through Hikari > USA > > (www.hikariusa.com) and many have reported problems > when > > using the newer Amquel Plus product. > > > > Also be aware that when using many products of this > sort, > > you should not use a Nessler's test kit to measure > ammonia, > > but a salicylate ammonia test kit. You can easily tell > which > > you have by the color that is generated for your > readings. > > Nessler's generates a yellow to brown color, while > > salicylate kits generate a green color. Test kits are > often > > not labeled clearly enough for the average bear to > determine > > which kit they are getting, so look at the color > chart > > before buying. The problem is that the Nessler kit > will give > > you a false positive reading since it measures total > ammonia > > (NH3 and NH4+), not just the toxic form of ammonia > (NH3). > > > > Also, the Winkler oxygen test will give a lower > reading, > > should you be testing for oxygen levels in your tank, > pond, > > etc. > > > > There are also certain chemicals and dyes used in > aquaria > > that should not be used if you are using an ammonia > > transforming chemical in your tank.  Be sure to > check > > the data sheet of any product like this you use for > > contraindications. > > > > For those of you who are really interested, Nessler > is > > really spelled Neßler That would be Ne<Latin > small > > letter sharp s>ler, which is the German spelling. > > > > \\Steve// > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] > > On Behalf Of robbrouse > > Sent: Friday, August 28, 2009 6:56 PM > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Cycling and Nitrite > > > > Yes sorry nitrites is was at 5.0 for several days. > > > > I will NOT be adding fish this weekend as planned. Too > much > > time and money involved to kill helpless creatures at > this > > point. > > > > I started another tap water base line and checked it > twice > > and I do have nitrate in my water as well 5.0 > > > > So my tap water base line is. > > > > Ammonia 0 > > Nitr(I)tes .50 > > Niotr(A)te 5.0 > > Ph 7.8 > > KH 4. - NEW Test Kit > > GH 11 - New test Kit > > > > Did all the test 3 times to make sure reading were > right. > > > > I will be getting the API Water Conditioner soon  I > > have Aqueon right now. > > > > I also have some doubts about the cycle as of now as > we > > have found out it's not ready yet. That's is why we > test out > > water to make sure it's safe. > > > > I did go though and remove the carbon today. Now non > of the > > filters have carbon in it. I left the bro wheels as > well as > > the Bio-Max Rings in the filters.  The article l I > read > > did not say anything about removing the carbon. Bit it > is > > done as of now. > > > > When I removed the Marineland I decided to cut it open > and > > see and there was nothing but black carbon in there.. > The > > same with the canister filet. > > > > No the plants are all fake. I have been looking into > live > > plants but I do remember not to use them for the > fishless > > cycle. > > > > A side note I was unable to cut the media like you > > did  on your blog. I might just snag some filter > media > > and use it. As you know the Marineland filter has > baskets so > > to speak I could add carbon to that if needed > > > > Recap. > > > > Right now carbon is out. Ammonia is .25 and was dose > this > > morning at 8:00 ish. Nitrite  Is still running high. > I > > removed all the carbon from the filters.  I had a > > neighbor let me borrow some Amquel it did remove the > nitrite > > but not the ammonia so I really don't see that as a > good > > product to use. I filled a gallon jug and did my base > line > > and then added 1 drop of ammonia and tested again the > > nitrite was 0 but the ammonia was still .5.  I just > > need to finish a proper fishless cycle. . > > > > Again did I miss anything you asked? Id so please let > me > > know. I'm just trying tot do what's right for the > fish. If > > it's 1 week or 6 weeks I'm more than willing to wait > it > > out. > > > > Robb > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, > > "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@...> wrote: > > > > > > OK... you need to be certain of what you type or > I > > cannot be certain of how > > > to answer.  > > > > > > In the second paragraph, you mention "nitrates > spiked > > (was at 5.0 for > > > several days)" and I'm presuming you meant > > nitrItes???  The nitrAtes is the > > > end product of the nitrogen cycle... at least for > the > > purposes of fishless > > > cycling a tank.  Every day that you add > ammonia, > > that ammonia is converted > > > to nitrIte.  Then the nitrIte is converted to > > nitrAte.  Ammonia and nitrIte > > > is toxic to fish.  NitrAte is only dangerous at > > very high levels, over > > > 100ppm but we strive to keep them under 40ppm or > even > > under 20ppm by doing > > > our weekly 25% PWC's, using plants, etc.... once > the > > tank is stocked and > > > running.  During a fishless cycle, there is NO > > NEED to do a PWC unless > > > certain things happen like a stall in the > > cycling.  This usually only > > > happens with very low KH water, which is not > present > > in your case. > > > > > > Your PWC's will NOT raise your nitrItes to any > major > > level... even with a > > > 100% water change, the nitrItes would only go to > > 0.5ppm so a 25% PWC would > > > only raise them to 0.125ppm, which might not even > show > > up on our test kits. > > > > > > I'm not sure why your nitrItes spiked from 0.0ppm > to > > 5.0ppm after doing a > > > PWC unless you shocked the nitrifying bacteria or > did > > not fully dechlor the > > > water or something.  Unless you can replicate > > that event, I have no clue > > > what happened.  As I've stated, doing a PWC > will > > NOT raise your nitrItes to > > > 5.0ppm since your tap water only has 0.5ppm of > > nitrItes in it.  It simply is > > > NOT possible from a chemistry or math > perspective... > > unless something else > > > happened. > > > > > > Please do NOT get fish yet.  Continue your > > fishless cycling for a few more > > > days and lets make sure things are working > > properly.  DO NOT do any PWC's > > > while you continue the testing.  Lets make sure > > things are working properly > > > and then you can plan your next step. > > > > > > Remember that I had some doubts about your > fishless > > cycle from the beginning > > > after you stated that you started from scratch > and it > > was fully cycling in > > > less than two weeks.... but then I thought that > maybe > > your 0.5ppm of > > > nitrItes in your tap water might have helped to > jump > > start things.  Because > > > of all of the weird fluctuations in your numbers, > I'm > > very uncertain that > > > your tank is cycling properly.  Unless I see > your > > nitrAtes start to rise, > > > then I have to suspect something in your filter > is > > removing the > > > ammonia/nitrite/nitrate or you are not testing > > properly or your test kit is > > > bad.  This is a chemical process that HAS TO > > FOLLOW certain physiological > > > processes, much like math where 1 + 1 + 1 = 3.  > > Even in public schools, 1 + > > > 1 + 1 still equals 3 and this is the only answer > that > > is correct.  With the > > > nitrogen cycle, ammonia is converted to nitrIte > is > > converted to nitrAte and > > > then the nitrAte is kept at a safe level by > doing > > PWC's, using plants and/or > > > having advanced filtration methods where > > denitrification of the nitrates can > > > be done.  For us, we use PWC's and plants to > help > > keep the nitrates at a > > > safe level below 40ppm. > > > > > > You should have removed the carbon when you > started > > fishless cycling.  ALL > > > of the fishless cycling articles that I've read > have > > this as one of the > > > steps.  I'm not sure it hurts very much but I > > guess it does or they wouldn't > > > have this as one of their steps.  Further, > there > > is NO NEED to run carbon in > > > a filter system even with fish, much less without > fish > > in a tank.  It's just > > > another way that the filter companies try to > separate > > people from their > > > hard-earned money.  They must think they are > the > > Guv'ment or something. ;-) > > > > > > If your nitrAtes have never been over 10ppm, > then > > either your testing is > > > compromised or something else is going wrong.  > > For example, in a fully > > > stocked tank, the fish put out around 5ppm of > ammonia > > each day.  After a > > > week of this and with no plants or filter media > to > > remove the nitrogenous > > > compounds, the nitrates would be over 20ppm, > possibly > > higher.  Since you > > > were dosing the tank with 5ppm, twice a day, > your > > nitrates should be well > > > over 40ppm, probably MUCH HIGHER and you are not > > seeing this figure.  Look > > > at your nitrate test instructions.  Were you > > shaking the bottles prior to > > > testing?   Nitrate bottle #2 says to > > shake for at least 30 seconds but it > > > should be more like 1 minute or more if the > bottle has > > been sitting for a > > > long time.  If you did not do this each time, > > prior to testing, your nitrate > > > bottle #2 is probably compromised and will NEVER > give > > you accurate readings > > > again.  See if you can pick up another Nitrate > > test kit and shake it like > > > crazy before using it and lets make sure your > nitrates > > are correct. > > > > > > As far as filter cartridges, MANY of them, > usually > > Tetra or TopFin brand > > > actually have Zeolite inside of the filter > cartridges > > so many fish keepers > > > do not even realize this.  I don't think that > > Marineland has started doing > > > this but then I haven't bought any filter > cartridges > > for any of my HOB's in > > > many years so I'm not sure what they might be up > > to.  If I know them, they > > > would have started throwing this crap in their > filters > > to force you to have > > > to trash the filters and buy new ones more > often. > > > > > > Last but not least, do you have live plants in > your > > tank?  This is another > > > thing that IS NOT in the instructions for > fishless > > cycling but I've seen > > > people do it and it only messes up the fishless > > cycling process.  Your > > > carbon could also be doing this so please remove > the > > carbon for these next > > > few days.  The other reason you should not use > > carbon when fishless cycling > > > is that some of your good bacteria would then be > > growing on the carbon and > > > since carbon gets thrown away every few weeks, > you > > would be trashing the > > > bacteria you worked so hard to grow.  By not > > using carbon, it forces the > > > good bacteria to grow on the Bio-Wheels and > other > > filter media that will be > > > staying in the tank, not getting trashed. > > > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > > > (Links to any articles referenced in above reply > are > > listed on the right > > > side, alphabetically under Labels and also under > > Archives by Year, Month) > > > > > > > > > ------------------------------------ > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when > replying, Thank You. > ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> > ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> > PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is > NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of > the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new > subject (was re: old subject)" <- > <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. > , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. > > If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of > unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by > clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the home page.  > > Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com > to receive the digest, which includes up to 25 posts at a > time in a single email > > Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com > for the No E-Mail option where you will still be able to > read messages on the group and post replies. > > Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com > to receive individual e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links > > >     mailto:AquaticLife-fullfeatured@yahoogroups.com > > > ------------------------------------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the home page. Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com to receive the digest, which includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com for the No E-Mail option where you will still be able to read messages on the group and post replies. Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com to receive individual e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 42999	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 8/29/2009
Subject: Re: dimensions?

A goldfish will not work, AT ALL, in a glass bowl, even a BIG 4G glass bowl. It's not that they prefer a bigger tank, they NEED a BIG tank. Even a 10-20G isn't big enough, except for maybe a few months when goldfish are still really small. For long term success, to ensure proper growth and limit the pollution they have to sustain, a 55G, 48" long tank is about the smallest one should have for a couple of fancy goldfish. Even fancy goldfish grow to 6" to 8" long but still have a similar body mass to long-bodied 12" to 15" goldfish. An adult goldfish is equal in body mass to over 500 1" goldfish so trying to keep one in an undersized tank would be like trying to put 500 goldfish in an undersized tank. While I say a 55G works long term, even it must be taken care of on a weekly basis or the water quality will deteriorate rapidly. They still put out LOTS of ammonia, pee and poop (as does any BIG fish) so they need the water volume to dilute the waste enough in between doing tank maintenance so that the water is not too polluted. If you were going to use a 4G bowl as a temporary home for a goldfish, WHICH I STRONGLY ADVISE AGAINST DOING, but I understand your predicament, you would have to do daily 1G PWC's to keep a constant flow of fresh clean water into the bowl and to siphon out fish waste, from the gravel to further keep the water from getting polluted too bad. I'm guessing you were not going to use a filter on this bowl? If not, you are going to see BAD cycling issues in the beginning so I strongly suggest that you get some live plants, like Anacharis, that can be left floating on the top or anchored down in the gravel to help with removing the ammonia/nitrite during the cycling process and also use SeaChem's Prime as your dechlor product as Prime will help to make the ammonia less toxic. Adding a pinch of salt with each PWC will also help prevent nitrite poisoning. Knowing the water parameters of your dorm's tap water would also help us give you better advice. When they say "a single fish as a pet.... but not aquariums", do they not realize that a bowl is just an aquarium that is round in shape? Or do they mean you can't have powered accessories like lighting, filter, air pump, etc.? If it has to be an un-powered container, you should go with a 10G tank (WalMart sells them for around $10.00) which would make things better for the fish and easier for you and then you would eventually be able to move the goldfish to a proper sized tank one day and still have the 10G tank to use for other fish you may want to get one day. You could also get the low cost fluorescent light strip and top for the 10G tank which would at least give the plants some good lighting so they would grow better, which would also help keep the water quality up and with a 10G tank, instead of a 4G bowl, you might be able to put off tank maintenance to every other day. You could then do daily 1G PWC's or maybe 25% PWC's every other day, once the tank is cycled. You would still have to use the Prime dechlor product, since without a filter, the tank will have trouble getting cycled properly. You would also have more room for more live plants which would help with removing the nitrogenous waste and keeping the CO2 levels lower and raising the O2 levels (when the lights are on). Now, going into the part where you say, "if he gets big" you will give him to your sister or get a bigger tank. Much of what I said above is still applicable but this "if he gets big" is a common myth and a BIG CATCH-22 for the beginner aquarium hobbyist. A fish that is supposed to get BIG will not get BIG if kept in an undersized tank, which is where the CATCH-22 comes in. Yes, it's true that many fish will stunt their own grown when kept in an undersized aquarium as a means of trying to ensure their own survival... BUT stunting is NOT A GOOD THING for the health of the fish. Stunted fish will almost always have many, many, many more health issues and die much earlier than a healthy fish that lives in a proper sized tank. This stunting process happens due to the level of hormones in the water and when the hormone level reaches a certain level, the fish senses this and stops growing. It's God's way (or Darwinism if you don't believe in God) of trying to ensure the fish lives... even if not as long or as healthy as the fish would live in a proper sized home. This can be partly overcome by doing the daily PWC's, as mentioned above and while this sounds like a workable plan, I also know how busy we can get as college students or working adults and them frat parties, kegger's, football games and even the occasional cramming for an exam will get in the way of doing daily PWC's and the fish will suffer the consequences... well, you might also suffer some of the consequences of the partying but IT'S WORTH IT for you... although you might swear that you'll never drink again... until tomorrow! At least, that was my motto back in the good old days! LOL PARTY ON GARTH!!!! LOL I guess you can tell I'm from New Orleans! LOL OK.. back to the fish. WalMart is not a bad place to buy fish. Don't let the PeTA whacko's make you think that. While there are some WalMart's that do not take proper care of their fish sections, other WalMart's do a fine job. This is also true for BIG BOX pet stores like PetsMart's, Petco's and even LFS' (local fish stores). It all depends on who is put in charge of taking care of the fish... much like us fish keepers. Some of us are diligent in keeping our tanks clean and healthy and others let things go for too long until the tank is a mess and they have sick or dying fish. I would venture to say that individual fish keepers are as much responsible for the number of fish that suffer as the BIG BOX pet stores and/or WalMart's. You just don't see it when it's being done in someone else's home. OK... enough for now. I'm sending this reply to the group and to you directly. Feel free to email me back through the group or directly and I'll help answer any questions that you or your future suitemate might have.... WAITAMINUTE.... suite???? Is that just a new-fangled fancy term for a dorm? I hope they don't just use that as a way of charging you all more money for the dorm room. LOL Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of kl_whitney Sent: Saturday, August 29, 2009 5:27 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] dimensions? Hi all, First off, as this is a very active list, I would prefer off list responses so I don't have to sort through the daily digests. FINALLY transferred schools. I checked the policy on pets with both the RD and the housing office. I've moved into a dorm that allows a single fish as a pet...but not aquariums. So I'm stuck with a fishbowl. I was wondering the dimensions of an average four gallon (want the biggest one I can get for the well being of the fish) fishbowl so that I can buy the right sized fake plant and the right amount of glass pebbles. Will a fish be ok with just glass pebbles, or will I need special gravel? I really want a small black moor goldfish as opposed to a beta, IDK, I just don't like betas. Yes I know that a goldfish would prefer to live in a 10-20 gallon aquarium. It's just that I can't give this hypothetical fish that right now, but if he gets big I'll definitely put him in a 20 gallon tank. When he outgrows the bowl, I might give him to my sister, who has an empty 10 gallon since her frog died. I bet she'd love that. I think she misses the frog even though she still has the tarantula in the 10 gallon terrarium next to the empty one. The 20 gallon tall that's mine was recently used to house a snake (he outgrew that one and now lives in a 55 gallon) so I can't put a fish in there unless I take the sticky backed heat pad off. It's not a heat pad rated to get anywhere near water. Yes I know that my sister and I have weird pets. I will have to buy my fish at (cringing because it's a bad place to buy fish) Walmart b/c it's the only thing remotely close to a pet store in town. I've found out when they get their next fish shipment and I will go within a week of that so that the fish won't have to live at Walmart very long. I would definitely get a ride to Walmart from a friend who's going as opposed to taking the campus shuttle, cause I don't want to subject any animal to a 10 passenger van ride. One of my suitemates (I'm in a four bedroom suite so I have my own room but share all other living spaces) is thinking of getting a fish too, but she goes home on the weekends so I would end up watching her fish when I'm not home for a long weekend. So there would be two fish in my room on weekends, but one fish on weekdays. Anyway, thanks in advance and say hi to all your fish for me! -Kathy

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 43000	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 8/29/2009
Subject: Re: oscar ill

U.S. Gallons. But it's a flexible dosage and I've seen folks (in forums) try as much as 3 teaspoons per gallon, slowly raised to that level, to try and get a fish to get un-blocked. Start off with the lower dosage and slowly work the level up if the fish is tolerating the lower dosage and if the lower dosage is not working, slowly raise the dosage up to 3 teaspoons per gallon but usually, if that level is tried, the fish is in really bad shape by that time. It's kind of like Chemotherapy. It's painful for the recipient... but not doing it is worse. Were you going to use a separate container for treating the Oscar or were you going to treat the entire tank? Epsom salts are not as tough on fish as regular salt... at least I don't think so, except for the stress the fish must go through with the extra osmoregulation that takes place with either one but once the osmoregulation is caught up, I don't think the Epsom salt causes physical damage where regular salt does. They are completely different compounds. Regular salt is NaCL (Sodium Chloride) whereas Epsom salt is (Magnesium Sulfate). I think it's the sodium in regular salt that kills bacteria and parasites but also adversely affects the fish as the sodium kind of burns... but I do not think that Epsom salts works the same way. Regular salt is closer in chemical compound to Bleach (Sodium Hypochlorite) whereas Epsom salt is closer to Milk Of Magnesia... now which one would you rather drink? If you have an open sore on your hand or foot, try dipping your hand or foot in a bucket of regular salted water and a separate bucket of epsom salted water and we will judge by the scream meter as to which one burns the most. I'm betting the regular salt will peak out the scream meter. ;-) Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of moiragrubb2000 Sent: Saturday, August 29, 2009 6:49 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: oscar ill --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "sevenspringss" <sevenspringss@...> wrote: > thanks ray were the measurements for epsom salts in imp gallons or us gallons mo > Unfortunately, there's no magic wand that goes along with the epsom salt remedy for constipation in fish. It may take as little as 12 hours, or it may take 24 or even more hours -- if it works. As this is but one method of attepting a cure for intestinal blockage, it may not even work in all cases, but it's a well-recognize and old treatment towards effecting a cure. It's not 100% guaranteed, but neither are green peas; although this can be tried whether or not a fish is eating, whereas peas (often promoting bowel movements in fish) has little hope if the fish isn't eating. > > Percentage of water to take out? I'm guessing you mean as the part of > regular PWC (partial water changes) of normal aquarium maintenance. > Normally, hobbyists change from 1/4 to 1/3 of their tank weekly, but > this also depends on the bioload. You could try 15% to 20% twice a > week, testing as you go for the usual ammonia, nitrite and nitrate > parameters which we are trying to keep at safe levels when doing these > PWC's -- then go from there according to these tests results, either > increasing or decreasing as the case may be. If you prefer doing > smaller, more frequent PWC's, start off with 10% every other day. Ray > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "moiragrubb2000" <moiragrubb2000@> wrote: > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, sevenspringss@ wrote: > > > my problem at the moment is isolating him how long would the epsom > > > salts take to work do you think . the longer he is going without > > > eating the more worried im getting could you also answer my > > > question on how much percent of water safe to take out if i was > > > doing 2 to 3 a week cheers mo > > > > > > > Mo, At first thought, I too figured this problem may have had > > > something to do with the freeze dried food, but that seemed too > > > "obvious," so I was looking for possible water quality issues. > > > You're apparently maintaining this aquarium properly though, so we > > > come right back to this food. For treating with Epsom Salts, try > > > using 1 Tbp per 5 gallons, if it seems he's constipated > > > -- and if you can isolate him. Pleco's don't like too much table > > > salt and I'm not sure if they take kindly to Epsom Salts either. > > > For treating initial stages of some internal issues, some > > > hobbyists increase the amount of Epsom Salts slowly to 1 tsp per > > > gallon (or more) -- that's 1 2/3 Tsp per 5 gallons -- but the fish > > > must be observed that he doesn't get stressed. Ray

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 43001	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 8/29/2009
Subject: Re: oscar ill

I should have read all of my mail before replying a little while ago. Thanks for explaining that it is the chloride that does the burning, not the sodium... but that's strange in a way as it's the chloride in salt that actually improves gill function in fish when using a much lower level of salt (a pinch per 10G) for helping to prevent nitrite poisoning. I do like my comparison of Table Salt and Bleach to Epsom Salt and Milk Of Magnesia though. ;-) The "hypochlorite" in "chlorine" bleach should have made me realize it's the chloride/chlorine derivative, at higher levels, that is the irritant, not the sodium. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of sevenspringss Sent: Saturday, August 29, 2009 8:18 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: oscar ill Those measurements using Epsom Salt in amounts of water are in U.S. Gallons. This often works and is sure worth a try. As you have no other large tank to isolate either the Oscar or the Pleco, you may try the treatment in your 70 Imperial Gallon (84 U.S, Gallon) tank, starting out at half-strength (1 Tbp. per 10 U.S, Gallons). Reports I've read indicate that Plecos will be fine at 1 Tbs. (Tablespoon) of Epsom Salt per 5 U.S. gallons (and even more), but it's always easier on any fish when introducing a foreign substance to graduate it in increments over time. Scale-less fish do not react to Epsom Salt (Magnesium Sulfate) in as a severe manner as they do with the use of Table Salt (Sodium Chloride), as it's the chloride the penetrates the skin with burning/toxic results when using Table Salt, whereas Epsom Salt's sulfate may promote irritation of the skin in higher concentrations. As long as this concentration is kept low enough, it will not irritate him. The 1 Tbs. per 10 U.S. gallons may be all that is necessary to have a positive effect on your Oscar and is were I would start -- or even less, but it's good to know it can be increased and still be safe for the Pleco when kept below the afore-mentioned amount. As with any unknown process in how it may effect a fish, it's best to observe for stress in which case you may do a 1/3 PWC to decrease the concentration should the need arise, although this should not be necessary -- but just to know what can be done if needed. Give the 1 Tbs per 10 U.S. gallons (or less) time (at least 12 hours) to work before considering increasing the concentration. Some hobbyists report success with smaller gut-blocked fish with using as little as 1/8 tsp. per U.S. Gallon, but since other reports indicate using as much as double the amount I've indicated, I find these extremes of much less and much more to be excesses (too little or too much) to one direction or the other to effect a treatment. Ray --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "moiragrubb2000" <moiragrubb2000@...> wrote: > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "sevenspringss" <sevenspringss@> wrote: > > > thanks ray were the measurements for epsom salts in imp gallons or us > gallons mo > > > Unfortunately, there's no magic wand that goes along with the epsom salt remedy for constipation in fish. It may take as little as 12 hours, or it may take 24 or even more hours -- if it works. As this is but one method of attepting a cure for intestinal blockage, it may not even work in all cases, but it's a well-recognize and old treatment towards effecting a cure. It's not 100% guaranteed, but neither are green peas; although this can be tried whether or not a fish is eating, whereas peas (often promoting bowel movements in fish) has little hope if the fish isn't eating. > > > > Percentage of water to take out? I'm guessing you mean as the part > > of regular PWC (partial water changes) of normal aquarium > > maintenance. Normally, hobbyists change from 1/4 to 1/3 of their > > tank weekly, but this also depends on the bioload. You could try > > 15% to 20% twice a week, testing as you go for the usual ammonia, > > nitrite and nitrate parameters which we are trying to keep at safe > > levels when doing these PWC's -- then go from there according to > > these tests results, either increasing or decreasing as the case may > > be. If you prefer doing smaller, more frequent PWC's, start off > > with 10% every other day. Ray > > > > > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "moiragrubb2000" <moiragrubb2000@> wrote: > > > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, sevenspringss@ wrote: > > > > my problem at the moment is isolating him how long would the > > > > epsom salts take to work do you think . the longer he is going > > > > without eating the more worried im getting could you also answer > > > > my question on how much percent of water safe to take out if i > > > > was doing 2 to 3 a week cheers mo > > > > > > > > > > > > Mo, At first thought, I too figured this problem may have had > > > > something to do with the freeze dried food, but that seemed too > > > > "obvious," so I was looking for possible water quality issues. > > > > You're apparently maintaining this aquarium properly though, so > > > > we come right back to this food. For treating with Epsom Salts, > > > > try using 1 Tbp per 5 gallons, if it seems he's constipated > > > > -- and if you can isolate him. Pleco's don't like too much > > > > table salt and I'm not sure if they take kindly to Epsom Salts > > > > either. For treating initial stages of some internal issues, > > > > some hobbyists increase the amount of Epsom Salts slowly to 1 > > > > tsp per gallon (or more) -- that's 1 2/3 Tsp per 5 gallons -- > > > > but the fish must be observed that he doesn't get stressed. Ray

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 43002	From: Dora Smith	Date: 8/29/2009
Subject: Re: How to treat my betta's disappearing tail fin

No, I just change the water in his little two gallon kritter keeper. Yours, Dora Smith Austin, TX tiggernut24@... ----- Original Message ----- From: "Amber Berglund" <arberglund@...> To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Friday, August 28, 2009 5:15 PM Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] How to treat my betta's disappearing tail fin > Do you have a filter on your betta tank? Mine likes to... love up to his > filter intake, only God knows why ;) LOL. > So he tends to lose the tips of his fins by doing this, perhaps he's > trying to scare the filter intake away? LOL. > I don't know if they are sensitive to antibiotics, perhaps someone else > knows. > > Amber > > Dora Smith wrote: >> >> >> My betta has the Case of the Disappearing Tail Fin. I don't know what's >> causing it; don't know if maybe he mangled it when he got dropped during >> water changes a couple of times. Not, betta wants to be picked up and put >> back in teh water, NOOOOO. I've tried six drops of melafix to a gallon of >> water, and one tsp salt per gallon. Not working. >> >> Betta otherwise seems fine - swimming around, appetite is fine, eats >> almost >> anything. Ocean nutrition betta pellets, Ocean nutrition formula one >> flakes, mosquito larvae from the algae rock farm, spectrum small fish >> pellets, and a little piece of cooked salmon. >> >> Betta is in a two gallon container with 1.5 gallons of water that gets >> changed completely every day - I couldn't come up with a satisfactory >> way to >> get the poop out of the gravel with my siphon. >> >> I want to use antibiotic, but the instructions are all for regular >> tropical >> fish, not for bettas. >> >> What and specifically what dose do you recommend? >> >> Yours, >> Dora Smith >> Austin, TX >> tiggernut24@... <mailto:tiggernut24%40yahoo.com> >> >> Yours, >> Dora Smith >> Austin, TX >> tiggernut24@... <mailto:tiggernut24%40yahoo.com> >> >> > > > ------------------------------------ > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. > ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> > PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to > the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the > SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- > <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. > > If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of unsubscribing, you > can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the > home page. > > Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com to receive the digest, which > includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email > > Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com for the No E-Mail option where > you will still be able to read messages on the group and post replies. > > Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com to receive individual > e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links > > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 43003	From: robbrouse	Date: 8/29/2009
Subject: Re: Cycling and Nitrite

Thanks for the info. I did look up and the stuff you are referring to is called Hikari Ultimate. I'm just wondering if anyone knows if this is a safe way to go? I mean it Removes Ammonia and Nitrite so I'm wondering if there is any ill effects to using this product? What will it to the the bio system? If there is no Ammonia to be converted to Nitrite then how will Nitrate be created to fight off the bio load of the aquarium? Anyway I hear it hard to find in a local store might snag some from big Al's and see what it does. I do have the test kit that goes from light yellow to dark green(API) so I'm assuming it'll be the right test kit. I'm still in the process of doing the fishless cycling. The ammonia is being eating in 9 hours or so again and the Nitrite is 1 and the Nitrate are between 5 and 10 (darker the 5 not as dark as 10). Still not sure what I did to kill the cycle guess when all levels hit ) again and another water change come I can see if thats the factor. --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Steve Szabo" <steve@...> wrote: > > You mentioned the possibility of using Amquel. Should you choose to do so, please realize that Amquel is no longer supplied to Kordon by its originator, whose products are now sold through Hikari USA (www.hikariusa.com) and many have reported problems when using the newer Amquel Plus product. > > Also be aware that when using many products of this sort, you should not use a Nessler's test kit to measure ammonia, but a salicylate ammonia test kit. You can easily tell which you have by the color that is generated for your readings. Nessler's generates a yellow to brown color, while salicylate kits generate a green color. Test kits are often not labeled clearly enough for the average bear to determine which kit they are getting, so look at the color chart before buying. The problem is that the Nessler kit will give you a false positive reading since it measures total ammonia (NH3 and NH4+), not just the toxic form of ammonia (NH3). > > Also, the Winkler oxygen test will give a lower reading, should you be testing for oxygen levels in your tank, pond, etc. > > There are also certain chemicals and dyes used in aquaria that should not be used if you are using an ammonia transforming chemical in your tank. Be sure to check the data sheet of any product like this you use for contraindications. > > For those of you who are really interested, Nessler is really spelled Neßler That would be Ne<Latin small letter sharp s>ler, which is the German spelling. > > \\Steve//

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 43004	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 8/29/2009
Subject: Re: Cycling and Nitrite

Despite what is said, the ammonia is not removed. The NH3 is converted to NH4+, and that will still be used by the bacteria. The product is good to use to treat water that has had chloramines added to it rather than chlorine. I was just suggesting that if you wanted to go the Amquel route recommended by your friends, you should consider the Hikari Ultimate instead. The API would be proper to use with these products under discussion, and will return a proper ammonia level for you to react to. \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of robbrouse Sent: Saturday, August 29, 2009 11:06 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Cycling and Nitrite Thanks for the info. I did look up and the stuff you are referring to is called Hikari Ultimate. I'm just wondering if anyone knows if this is a safe way to go? I mean it Removes Ammonia and Nitrite so I'm wondering if there is any ill effects to using this product? What will it to the the bio system? If there is no Ammonia to be converted to Nitrite then how will Nitrate be created to fight off the bio load of the aquarium? Anyway I hear it hard to find in a local store might snag some from big Al's and see what it does. I do have the test kit that goes from light yellow to dark green(API) so I'm assuming it'll be the right test kit. I'm still in the process of doing the fishless cycling. The ammonia is being eating in 9 hours or so again and the Nitrite is 1 and the Nitrate are between 5 and 10 (darker the 5 not as dark as 10). Still not sure what I did to kill the cycle guess when all levels hit ) again and another water change come I can see if thats the factor. --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Steve Szabo" <steve@...> wrote: > > You mentioned the possibility of using Amquel. Should you choose to do so, please realize that Amquel is no longer supplied to Kordon by its originator, whose products are now sold through Hikari USA (www.hikariusa.com) and many have reported problems when using the newer Amquel Plus product. > > Also be aware that when using many products of this sort, you should not use a Nessler's test kit to measure ammonia, but a salicylate ammonia test kit. You can easily tell which you have by the color that is generated for your readings. Nessler's generates a yellow to brown color, while salicylate kits generate a green color. Test kits are often not labeled clearly enough for the average bear to determine which kit they are getting, so look at the color chart before buying. The problem is that the Nessler kit will give you a false positive reading since it measures total ammonia (NH3 and NH4+), not just the toxic form of ammonia (NH3). > > Also, the Winkler oxygen test will give a lower reading, should you be testing for oxygen levels in your tank, pond, etc. > > There are also certain chemicals and dyes used in aquaria that should not be used if you are using an ammonia transforming chemical in your tank. Be sure to check the data sheet of any product like this you use for contraindications. > > For those of you who are really interested, Nessler is really spelled Neßler That would be Ne<Latin small letter sharp s>ler, which is the German spelling. > > \\Steve//

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 43005	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 8/29/2009
Subject: Re: Cycling and Nitrite

Ultimate is a good product but SeaChem's Prime is just as good and I think it's more available and probably at a lower cost. I still do NOT think you will need anything more than a normal dechlor product that treats for chlorine/chloramine and heavy metals. Your nitrite level in your tap water simply is not high enough to be concerned about. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of robbrouse Sent: Saturday, August 29, 2009 10:06 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Cycling and Nitrite Thanks for the info. I did look up and the stuff you are referring to is called Hikari Ultimate. I'm just wondering if anyone knows if this is a safe way to go? I mean it Removes Ammonia and Nitrite so I'm wondering if there is any ill effects to using this product? What will it to the the bio system? If there is no Ammonia to be converted to Nitrite then how will Nitrate be created to fight off the bio load of the aquarium? Anyway I hear it hard to find in a local store might snag some from big Al's and see what it does. I do have the test kit that goes from light yellow to dark green(API) so I'm assuming it'll be the right test kit. I'm still in the process of doing the fishless cycling. The ammonia is being eating in 9 hours or so again and the Nitrite is 1 and the Nitrate are between 5 and 10 (darker the 5 not as dark as 10). Still not sure what I did to kill the cycle guess when all levels hit ) again and another water change come I can see if thats the factor. --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Steve Szabo" <steve@...> wrote: > > You mentioned the possibility of using Amquel. Should you choose to do so, please realize that Amquel is no longer supplied to Kordon by its originator, whose products are now sold through Hikari USA (www.hikariusa.com) and many have reported problems when using the newer Amquel Plus product. > > Also be aware that when using many products of this sort, you should not use a Nessler's test kit to measure ammonia, but a salicylate ammonia test kit. You can easily tell which you have by the color that is generated for your readings. Nessler's generates a yellow to brown color, while salicylate kits generate a green color. Test kits are often not labeled clearly enough for the average bear to determine which kit they are getting, so look at the color chart before buying. The problem is that the Nessler kit will give you a false positive reading since it measures total ammonia (NH3 and NH4+), not just the toxic form of ammonia (NH3). > > Also, the Winkler oxygen test will give a lower reading, should you be testing for oxygen levels in your tank, pond, etc. > > There are also certain chemicals and dyes used in aquaria that should not be used if you are using an ammonia transforming chemical in your tank. Be sure to check the data sheet of any product like this you use for contraindications. > > For those of you who are really interested, Nessler is really spelled Neßler That would be Ne<Latin small letter sharp s>ler, which is the German spelling. > > \\Steve//

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 43006	From: kl_whitney	Date: 8/29/2009
Subject: betas?

Once again, private emails are preferred due to the fact that this is a very active group. My suitemate is getting a beta and I agreed to watch him on the weekends. If I end up with my own fish, how do I prevent her fish from going bonkers when he's in my room for the weekends? Should I just put something opaque between the two bowls? Is it true that they get angry enough to have heart attacks when they see other fish? I might get a beta after all. Not sure. If I can find a nice healthy one at Walmart I may go for the beta over the black moor. Will a beta feel safe in a 4 gallon bowl? I thought they were one of the few fishes that prefered small tanks cause they like to be secure. And once again, if I get a plastic plant, should it be 6", 9", or 12" for that sized bowl? I want one that's big enough to give the fish plenty of hiding space. Oh, and what do I look for as far as signs of good health go in a beta? I know that they're pretty mellow unless they're exposed to other fish. So how do I tell if he's healthy? -Kathy

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 43007	From: kl_whitney	Date: 8/29/2009
Subject: Re: bettas?

Hi all, Decided that a betta is better, even though they're not my favorite fish. A black moor would be too much work. What signs of health do I look for in a betta? Also, I highly doubt I can get a live plant for him. I would have to drive an hour to get to the nearest city with a real pet store. IDK, does a Walmart Supercenter typically have live plants? How big of a plastic plant would you reccommend for the 4 gallon fishbowl? Maybe a 12"? I will plan on putting something opaque between my fish and my suitemate's fish when I'm babysitting cause they'll both be bettas and both males. Anyway, I would appreciate if you folks could tell me how to pick out a healthy betta. Thanks, Kathy --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "kl_whitney" <kl_whitney@...> wrote: > > Once again, private emails are preferred due to the fact that this is a very active group. > My suitemate is getting a beta and I agreed to watch him on the weekends. If I end up with my own fish, how do I prevent her fish from going bonkers when he's in my room for the weekends? Should I just put something opaque between the two bowls? Is it true that they get angry enough to have heart attacks when they see other fish? > I might get a beta after all. Not sure. If I can find a nice healthy one at Walmart I may go for the beta over the black moor. Will a beta feel safe in a 4 gallon bowl? I thought they were one of the few fishes that prefered small tanks cause they like to be secure. And once again, if I get a plastic plant, should it be 6", 9", or 12" for that sized bowl? I want one that's big enough to give the fish plenty of hiding space. > Oh, and what do I look for as far as signs of good health go in a beta? I know that they're pretty mellow unless they're exposed to other fish. So how do I tell if he's healthy? > -Kathy >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 43008	From: pam andress	Date: 8/29/2009
Subject: Re: dimensions?

I would also suggest getting a air pump and sponge filter. If anyone says anything about it being a "filter", just say you like the bubbles! lol Also if you can't find a room for a 10 gal, you could go with a 5 gal. Another fish suggestion would be a Killie fish. Pam To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com; kl_whitney@... From: GoldLenny@... Date: Sat, 29 Aug 2009 11:13:08 -0500 Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] dimensions? A goldfish will not work, AT ALL, in a glass bowl, even a BIG 4G glass bowl. It's not that they prefer a bigger tank, they NEED a BIG tank. Even a 10-20G isn't big enough, except for maybe a few months when goldfish are still really small. For long term success, to ensure proper growth and limit the pollution they have to sustain, a 55G, 48" long tank is about the smallest one should have for a couple of fancy goldfish. Even fancy goldfish grow to 6" to 8" long but still have a similar body mass to long-bodied 12" to 15" goldfish. An adult goldfish is equal in body mass to over 500 1" goldfish so trying to keep one in an undersized tank would be like trying to put 500 goldfish in an undersized tank. While I say a 55G works long term, even it must be taken care of on a weekly basis or the water quality will deteriorate rapidly. They still put out LOTS of ammonia, pee and poop (as does any BIG fish) so they need the water volume to dilute the waste enough in between doing tank maintenance so that the water is not too polluted. If you were going to use a 4G bowl as a temporary home for a goldfish, WHICH I STRONGLY ADVISE AGAINST DOING, but I understand your predicament, you would have to do daily 1G PWC's to keep a constant flow of fresh clean water into the bowl and to siphon out fish waste, from the gravel to further keep the water from getting polluted too bad. I'm guessing you were not going to use a filter on this bowl? If not, you are going to see BAD cycling issues in the beginning so I strongly suggest that you get some live plants, like Anacharis, that can be left floating on the top or anchored down in the gravel to help with removing the ammonia/nitrite during the cycling process and also use SeaChem's Prime as your dechlor product as Prime will help to make the ammonia less toxic. Adding a pinch of salt with each PWC will also help prevent nitrite poisoning. Knowing the water parameters of your dorm's tap water would also help us give you better advice. When they say "a single fish as a pet.... but not aquariums", do they not realize that a bowl is just an aquarium that is round in shape? Or do they mean you can't have powered accessories like lighting, filter, air pump, etc.? If it has to be an un-powered container, you should go with a 10G tank (WalMart sells them for around $10.00) which would make things better for the fish and easier for you and then you would eventually be able to move the goldfish to a proper sized tank one day and still have the 10G tank to use for other fish you may want to get one day. You could also get the low cost fluorescent light strip and top for the 10G tank which would at least give the plants some good lighting so they would grow better, which would also help keep the water quality up and with a 10G tank, instead of a 4G bowl, you might be able to put off tank maintenance to every other day. You could then do daily 1G PWC's or maybe 25% PWC's every other day, once the tank is cycled. You would still have to use the Prime dechlor product, since without a filter, the tank will have trouble getting cycled properly. You would also have more room for more live plants which would help with removing the nitrogenous waste and keeping the CO2 levels lower and raising the O2 levels (when the lights are on). Now, going into the part where you say, "if he gets big" you will give him to your sister or get a bigger tank. Much of what I said above is still applicable but this "if he gets big" is a common myth and a BIG CATCH-22 for the beginner aquarium hobbyist. A fish that is supposed to get BIG will not get BIG if kept in an undersized tank, which is where the CATCH-22 comes in. Yes, it's true that many fish will stunt their own grown when kept in an undersized aquarium as a means of trying to ensure their own survival... BUT stunting is NOT A GOOD THING for the health of the fish. Stunted fish will almost always have many, many, many more health issues and die much earlier than a healthy fish that lives in a proper sized tank. This stunting process happens due to the level of hormones in the water and when the hormone level reaches a certain level, the fish senses this and stops growing. It's God's way (or Darwinism if you don't believe in God) of trying to ensure the fish lives... even if not as long or as healthy as the fish would live in a proper sized home. This can be partly overcome by doing the daily PWC's, as mentioned above and while this sounds like a workable plan, I also know how busy we can get as college students or working adults and them frat parties, kegger's, football games and even the occasional cramming for an exam will get in the way of doing daily PWC's and the fish will suffer the consequences... well, you might also suffer some of the consequences of the partying but IT'S WORTH IT for you... although you might swear that you'll never drink again... until tomorrow! At least, that was my motto back in the good old days! LOL PARTY ON GARTH!!!! LOL I guess you can tell I'm from New Orleans! LOL OK.. back to the fish. WalMart is not a bad place to buy fish. Don't let the PeTA whacko's make you think that. While there are some WalMart's that do not take proper care of their fish sections, other WalMart's do a fine job. This is also true for BIG BOX pet stores like PetsMart's, Petco's and even LFS' (local fish stores). It all depends on who is put in charge of taking care of the fish... much like us fish keepers. Some of us are diligent in keeping our tanks clean and healthy and others let things go for too long until the tank is a mess and they have sick or dying fish. I would venture to say that individual fish keepers are as much responsible for the number of fish that suffer as the BIG BOX pet stores and/or WalMart's. You just don't see it when it's being done in someone else's home. OK... enough for now. I'm sending this reply to the group and to you directly. Feel free to email me back through the group or directly and I'll help answer any questions that you or your future suitemate might have.... WAITAMINUTE.... suite???? Is that just a new-fangled fancy term for a dorm? I hope they don't just use that as a way of charging you all more money for the dorm room. LOL Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of kl_whitney Sent: Saturday, August 29, 2009 5:27 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] dimensions? Hi all, First off, as this is a very active list, I would prefer off list responses so I don't have to sort through the daily digests. FINALLY transferred schools. I checked the policy on pets with both the RD and the housing office. I've moved into a dorm that allows a single fish as a pet...but not aquariums. So I'm stuck with a fishbowl. I was wondering the dimensions of an average four gallon (want the biggest one I can get for the well being of the fish) fishbowl so that I can buy the right sized fake plant and the right amount of glass pebbles. Will a fish be ok with just glass pebbles, or will I need special gravel? I really want a small black moor goldfish as opposed to a beta, IDK, I just don't like betas. Yes I know that a goldfish would prefer to live in a 10-20 gallon aquarium. It's just that I can't give this hypothetical fish that right now, but if he gets big I'll definitely put him in a 20 gallon tank. When he outgrows the bowl, I might give him to my sister, who has an empty 10 gallon since her frog died. I bet she'd love that. I think she misses the frog even though she still has the tarantula in the 10 gallon terrarium next to the empty one. The 20 gallon tall that's mine was recently used to house a snake (he outgrew that one and now lives in a 55 gallon) so I can't put a fish in there unless I take the sticky backed heat pad off. It's not a heat pad rated to get anywhere near water. Yes I know that my sister and I have weird pets. I will have to buy my fish at (cringing because it's a bad place to buy fish) Walmart b/c it's the only thing remotely close to a pet store in town. I've found out when they get their next fish shipment and I will go within a week of that so that the fish won't have to live at Walmart very long. I would definitely get a ride to Walmart from a friend who's going as opposed to taking the campus shuttle, cause I don't want to subject any animal to a 10 passenger van ride. One of my suitemates (I'm in a four bedroom suite so I have my own room but share all other living spaces) is thinking of getting a fish too, but she goes home on the weekends so I would end up watching her fish when I'm not home for a long weekend. So there would be two fish in my room on weekends, but one fish on weekdays. Anyway, thanks in advance and say hi to all your fish for me! -Kathy [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 43009	From: kl_whitney	Date: 8/29/2009
Subject: Re: dimensions?

Thanks, Lenny. I'm planning on getting a betta now, because what you said about caring for a goldfish in a bowl is just way too much work for my busy schedule. So I still would like to know the dimensions of the average 4 gallon bowl so I'll know what size "plant" and what amount of glass pebbles to get him. I really doubt I'll find a live plant at Walmart. -Kathy --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@...> wrote: > > A goldfish will not work, AT ALL, in a glass bowl, even a BIG 4G glass bowl. > It's not that they prefer a bigger tank, they NEED a BIG tank. Even a > 10-20G isn't big enough, except for maybe a few months when goldfish are > still really small. For long term success, to ensure proper growth and > limit the pollution they have to sustain, a 55G, 48" long tank is about the > smallest one should have for a couple of fancy goldfish. Even fancy > goldfish grow to 6" to 8" long but still have a similar body mass to > long-bodied 12" to 15" goldfish. An adult goldfish is equal in body mass to > over 500 1" goldfish so trying to keep one in an undersized tank would be > like trying to put 500 goldfish in an undersized tank. While I say a 55G > works long term, even it must be taken care of on a weekly basis or the > water quality will deteriorate rapidly. They still put out LOTS of ammonia, > pee and poop (as does any BIG fish) so they need the water volume to dilute > the waste enough in between doing tank maintenance so that the water is not > too polluted. > > If you were going to use a 4G bowl as a temporary home for a goldfish, WHICH > I STRONGLY ADVISE AGAINST DOING, but I understand your predicament, you > would have to do daily 1G PWC's to keep a constant flow of fresh clean water > into the bowl and to siphon out fish waste, from the gravel to further keep > the water from getting polluted too bad. I'm guessing you were not going to > use a filter on this bowl? If not, you are going to see BAD cycling issues > in the beginning so I strongly suggest that you get some live plants, like > Anacharis, that can be left floating on the top or anchored down in the > gravel to help with removing the ammonia/nitrite during the cycling process > and also use SeaChem's Prime as your dechlor product as Prime will help to > make the ammonia less toxic. Adding a pinch of salt with each PWC will also > help prevent nitrite poisoning. > > Knowing the water parameters of your dorm's tap water would also help us > give you better advice. > > When they say "a single fish as a pet.... but not aquariums", do they not > realize that a bowl is just an aquarium that is round in shape? Or do they > mean you can't have powered accessories like lighting, filter, air pump, > etc.? > > If it has to be an un-powered container, you should go with a 10G tank > (WalMart sells them for around $10.00) which would make things better for > the fish and easier for you and then you would eventually be able to move > the goldfish to a proper sized tank one day and still have the 10G tank to > use for other fish you may want to get one day. You could also get the low > cost fluorescent light strip and top for the 10G tank which would at least > give the plants some good lighting so they would grow better, which would > also help keep the water quality up and with a 10G tank, instead of a 4G > bowl, you might be able to put off tank maintenance to every other day. You > could then do daily 1G PWC's or maybe 25% PWC's every other day, once the > tank is cycled. You would still have to use the Prime dechlor product, > since without a filter, the tank will have trouble getting cycled properly. > You would also have more room for more live plants which would help with > removing the nitrogenous waste and keeping the CO2 levels lower and raising > the O2 levels (when the lights are on). > > Now, going into the part where you say, "if he gets big" you will give him > to your sister or get a bigger tank. Much of what I said above is still > applicable but this "if he gets big" is a common myth and a BIG CATCH-22 for > the beginner aquarium hobbyist. A fish that is supposed to get BIG will not > get BIG if kept in an undersized tank, which is where the CATCH-22 comes in. > Yes, it's true that many fish will stunt their own grown when kept in an > undersized aquarium as a means of trying to ensure their own survival... BUT > stunting is NOT A GOOD THING for the health of the fish. Stunted fish will > almost always have many, many, many more health issues and die much earlier > than a healthy fish that lives in a proper sized tank. This stunting > process happens due to the level of hormones in the water and when the > hormone level reaches a certain level, the fish senses this and stops > growing. It's God's way (or Darwinism if you don't believe in God) of > trying to ensure the fish lives... even if not as long or as healthy as the > fish would live in a proper sized home. This can be partly overcome by > doing the daily PWC's, as mentioned above and while this sounds like a > workable plan, I also know how busy we can get as college students or > working adults and them frat parties, kegger's, football games and even the > occasional cramming for an exam will get in the way of doing daily PWC's and > the fish will suffer the consequences... well, you might also suffer some of > the consequences of the partying but IT'S WORTH IT for you... although you > might swear that you'll never drink again... until tomorrow! At least, that > was my motto back in the good old days! LOL PARTY ON GARTH!!!! LOL I > guess you can tell I'm from New Orleans! LOL > > OK.. back to the fish. > > WalMart is not a bad place to buy fish. Don't let the PeTA whacko's make > you think that. While there are some WalMart's that do not take proper care > of their fish sections, other WalMart's do a fine job. This is also true > for BIG BOX pet stores like PetsMart's, Petco's and even LFS' (local fish > stores). It all depends on who is put in charge of taking care of the > fish... much like us fish keepers. Some of us are diligent in keeping our > tanks clean and healthy and others let things go for too long until the tank > is a mess and they have sick or dying fish. I would venture to say that > individual fish keepers are as much responsible for the number of fish that > suffer as the BIG BOX pet stores and/or WalMart's. You just don't see it > when it's being done in someone else's home. > > OK... enough for now. I'm sending this reply to the group and to you > directly. Feel free to email me back through the group or directly and I'll > help answer any questions that you or your future suitemate might have.... > WAITAMINUTE.... suite???? Is that just a new-fangled fancy term for a dorm? > I hope they don't just use that as a way of charging you all more money for > the dorm room. LOL > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right > side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On > Behalf Of kl_whitney > Sent: Saturday, August 29, 2009 5:27 AM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Subject: [AquaticLife] dimensions? > > Hi all, > First off, as this is a very active list, I would prefer off list responses > so I don't have to sort through the daily digests. > FINALLY transferred schools. I checked the policy on pets with both the RD > and the housing office. I've moved into a dorm that allows a single fish as > a pet...but not aquariums. So I'm stuck with a fishbowl. I was wondering > the dimensions of an average four gallon (want the biggest one I can get for > the well being of the fish) fishbowl so that I can buy the right sized fake > plant and the right amount of glass pebbles. Will a fish be ok with just > glass pebbles, or will I need special gravel? > I really want a small black moor goldfish as opposed to a beta, IDK, I just > don't like betas. Yes I know that a goldfish would prefer to live in a > 10-20 gallon aquarium. It's just that I can't give this hypothetical fish > that right now, but if he gets big I'll definitely put him in a 20 gallon > tank. When he outgrows the bowl, I might give him to my sister, who has an > empty 10 gallon since her frog died. I bet she'd love that. I think she > misses the frog even though she still has the tarantula in the 10 gallon > terrarium next to the empty one. The 20 gallon tall that's mine was > recently used to house a snake (he outgrew that one and now lives in a 55 > gallon) so I can't put a fish in there unless I take the sticky backed heat > pad off. It's not a heat pad rated to get anywhere near water. Yes I know > that my sister and I have weird pets. > I will have to buy my fish at (cringing because it's a bad place to buy > fish) Walmart b/c it's the only thing remotely close to a pet store in town. > I've found out when they get their next fish shipment and I will go within a > week of that so that the fish won't have to live at Walmart very long. I > would definitely get a ride to Walmart from a friend who's going as opposed > to taking the campus shuttle, cause I don't want to subject any animal to a > 10 passenger van ride. > One of my suitemates (I'm in a four bedroom suite so I have my own room but > share all other living spaces) is thinking of getting a fish too, but she > goes home on the weekends so I would end up watching her fish when I'm not > home for a long weekend. So there would be two fish in my room on weekends, > but one fish on weekdays. > Anyway, thanks in advance and say hi to all your fish for me! > -Kathy >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 43010	From: moiragrubb2000	Date: 8/29/2009
Subject: Re: oscar ill

--- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@...> wrote: > i dont have a spare tank big enough for the oscar and tottally unsure about doing the whole tank as ray had said plecos dont like it dontwant to end up with 2 ill fish i tried the pea in garlic but wasnt very succesfull do you think id get away with doing whole tank im sure the longer i wait the whole situation just getting worse mo > U.S. Gallons. But it's a flexible dosage and I've seen folks (in forums) > try as much as 3 teaspoons per gallon, slowly raised to that level, to try > and get a fish to get un-blocked. Start off with the lower dosage and > slowly work the level up if the fish is tolerating the lower dosage and if > the lower dosage is not working, slowly raise the dosage up to 3 teaspoons > per gallon but usually, if that level is tried, the fish is in really bad > shape by that time. It's kind of like Chemotherapy. It's painful for the > recipient... but not doing it is worse. > > Were you going to use a separate container for treating the Oscar or were > you going to treat the entire tank? Epsom salts are not as tough on fish as > regular salt... at least I don't think so, except for the stress the fish > must go through with the extra osmoregulation that takes place with either > one but once the osmoregulation is caught up, I don't think the Epsom salt > causes physical damage where regular salt does. They are completely > different compounds. Regular salt is NaCL (Sodium Chloride) whereas Epsom > salt is (Magnesium Sulfate). I think it's the sodium in regular salt that > kills bacteria and parasites but also adversely affects the fish as the > sodium kind of burns... but I do not think that Epsom salts works the same > way. Regular salt is closer in chemical compound to Bleach (Sodium > Hypochlorite) whereas Epsom salt is closer to Milk Of Magnesia... now which > one would you rather drink? If you have an open sore on your hand or foot, > try dipping your hand or foot in a bucket of regular salted water and a > separate bucket of epsom salted water and we will judge by the scream meter > as to which one burns the most. I'm betting the regular salt will peak out > the scream meter. ;-) > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right > side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) > > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On > Behalf Of moiragrubb2000 > Sent: Saturday, August 29, 2009 6:49 AM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: oscar ill > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "sevenspringss" <sevenspringss@> > wrote: > > > thanks ray were the measurements for epsom salts in imp gallons or us > gallons mo > > > Unfortunately, there's no magic wand that goes along with the epsom salt > remedy for constipation in fish. It may take as little as 12 hours, or it > may take 24 or even more hours -- if it works. As this is but one method of > attepting a cure for intestinal blockage, it may not even work in all cases, > but it's a well-recognize and old treatment towards effecting a cure. It's > not 100% guaranteed, but neither are green peas; although this can be tried > whether or not a fish is eating, whereas peas (often promoting bowel > movements in fish) has little hope if the fish isn't eating. > > > > Percentage of water to take out? I'm guessing you mean as the part of > > regular PWC (partial water changes) of normal aquarium maintenance. > > Normally, hobbyists change from 1/4 to 1/3 of their tank weekly, but > > this also depends on the bioload. You could try 15% to 20% twice a > > week, testing as you go for the usual ammonia, nitrite and nitrate > > parameters which we are trying to keep at safe levels when doing these > > PWC's -- then go from there according to these tests results, either > > increasing or decreasing as the case may be. If you prefer doing > > smaller, more frequent PWC's, start off with 10% every other day. Ray > > > > > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "moiragrubb2000" <moiragrubb2000@> > wrote: > > > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, sevenspringss@ wrote: > > > > my problem at the moment is isolating him how long would the epsom > > > > salts take to work do you think . the longer he is going without > > > > eating the more worried im getting could you also answer my > > > > question on how much percent of water safe to take out if i was > > > > doing 2 to 3 a week cheers mo > > > > > > > > > > > > Mo, At first thought, I too figured this problem may have had > > > > something to do with the freeze dried food, but that seemed too > > > > "obvious," so I was looking for possible water quality issues. > > > > You're apparently maintaining this aquarium properly though, so we > > > > come right back to this food. For treating with Epsom Salts, try > > > > using 1 Tbp per 5 gallons, if it seems he's constipated > > > > -- and if you can isolate him. Pleco's don't like too much table > > > > salt and I'm not sure if they take kindly to Epsom Salts either. > > > > For treating initial stages of some internal issues, some > > > > hobbyists increase the amount of Epsom Salts slowly to 1 tsp per > > > > gallon (or more) -- that's 1 2/3 Tsp per 5 gallons -- but the fish > > > > must be observed that he doesn't get stressed. Ray >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 43011	From: moiragrubb2000	Date: 8/29/2009
Subject: Re: oscar ill

--- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "sevenspringss" <sevenspringss@...> wrote: > sorry ray i didnt get this e mail earlier this has reassured me and i am going to go ahead and do the whole tank following your guidelines will let you all know how it goes you lot are a mine of information and a great help cheers mo > Those measurements using Epsom Salt in amounts of water are in U.S. Gallons. This often works and is sure worth a try. As you have no other large tank to isolate either the Oscar or the Pleco, you may try the treatment in your 70 Imperial Gallon (84 U.S, Gallon) tank, starting out at half-strength (1 Tbp. per 10 U.S, Gallons). Reports I've read indicate that Plecos will be fine at 1 Tbs. (Tablespoon) of Epsom Salt per 5 U.S. gallons (and even more), but it's always easier on any fish when introducing a foreign substance to graduate it in increments over time. > > Scale-less fish do not react to Epsom Salt (Magnesium Sulfate) in as a severe manner as they do with the use of Table Salt (Sodium Chloride), as it's the chloride the penetrates the skin with burning/toxic results when using Table Salt, whereas Epsom Salt's sulfate may promote irritation of the skin in higher concentrations. As long as this concentration is kept low enough, it will not irritate him. The 1 Tbs. per 10 U.S. gallons may be all that is necessary to have a positive effect on your Oscar and is were I would start -- or even less, but it's good to know it can be increased and still be safe for the Pleco when kept below the afore-mentioned amount. As with any unknown process in how it may effect a fish, it's best to observe for stress in which case you may do a 1/3 PWC to decrease the concentration should the need arise, although this should not be necessary -- but just to know what can be done if needed. > > Give the 1 Tbs per 10 U.S. gallons (or less) time (at least 12 hours) to work before considering increasing the concentration. Some hobbyists report success with smaller gut-blocked fish with using as little as 1/8 tsp. per U.S. Gallon, but since other reports indicate using as much as double the amount I've indicated, I find these extremes of much less and much more to be excesses (too little or too much) to one direction or the other to effect a treatment. Ray > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "moiragrubb2000" <moiragrubb2000@> wrote: > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "sevenspringss" <sevenspringss@> wrote: > > > > > thanks ray were the measurements for epsom salts in imp gallons or us gallons mo > > > > > Unfortunately, there's no magic wand that goes along with the epsom salt remedy for constipation in fish. It may take as little as 12 hours, or it may take 24 or even more hours -- if it works. As this is but one method of attepting a cure for intestinal blockage, it may not even work in all cases, but it's a well-recognize and old treatment towards effecting a cure. It's not 100% guaranteed, but neither are green peas; although this can be tried whether or not a fish is eating, whereas peas (often promoting bowel movements in fish) has little hope if the fish isn't eating. > > > > > > Percentage of water to take out? I'm guessing you mean as the part of regular PWC (partial water changes) of normal aquarium maintenance. Normally, hobbyists change from 1/4 to 1/3 of their tank weekly, but this also depends on the bioload. You could try 15% to 20% twice a week, testing as you go for the usual ammonia, nitrite and nitrate parameters which we are trying to keep at safe levels when doing these PWC's -- then go from there according to these tests results, either increasing or decreasing as the case may be. If you prefer doing smaller, more frequent PWC's, start off with 10% every other day. Ray > > > > > > > > > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "moiragrubb2000" <moiragrubb2000@> wrote: > > > > > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, sevenspringss@ wrote: > > > > > my problem at the moment is isolating him how long would the epsom salts take to work do you think . the longer he is going without eating the more worried im getting could you also answer my question on how much percent of water safe to take out if i was doing 2 to 3 a week cheers mo > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Mo, At first thought, I too figured this problem may have had something to > > > > > do with the freeze dried food, but that seemed too "obvious," so I was > > > > > looking for possible water quality issues. You're apparently maintaining this > > > > > aquarium properly though, so we come right back to this food. For treating > > > > > with Epsom Salts, try using 1 Tbp per 5 gallons, if it seems he's constipated > > > > > -- and if you can isolate him. Pleco's don't like too much table salt and > > > > > I'm not sure if they take kindly to Epsom Salts either. For treating initial > > > > > stages of some internal issues, some hobbyists increase the amount of Epsom > > > > > Salts slowly to 1 tsp per gallon (or more) -- that's 1 2/3 Tsp per 5 > > > > > gallons -- but the fish must be observed that he doesn't get stressed. Ray > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 43012	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 8/29/2009
Subject: Re: bettas?

Walmart up here once had in these cute little black cube aquariums that were I think only 2 gallons, not quite sure. But they had a little light and a filter (bubble type) included, just needed a little gravel I think. They were pretty cheap you might look for something like that. My walmart doesn't even have fish so I can't advise if they will have plants ;) but you could ask them, no harm in trying, they might have some really easy to grow popular kinds, never know. When you look at the bettas look for signs of stress, they will sometimes be lethargic and not swim much, or be left in a very dirty cup. I'm picky and I only pick out the very active males in the cleaner looking cups because some fish stores don't change their betta cups often enough IMO. Just look for an active male and you should be okay, if they aren't doing much when you pick up the cup or move it a little bit they might just be overly stressed from shipping or dirty water. Mostly look for a male that you think is pretty and you want to look at. I have a pretty blue with some purple on him, he is a crown tail too, very pretty. Amber kl_whitney wrote: > > > Hi all, > Decided that a betta is better, even though they're not my favorite > fish. A black moor would be too much work. What signs of health do I > look for in a betta? Also, I highly doubt I can get a live plant for > him. I would have to drive an hour to get to the nearest city with a > real pet store. IDK, does a Walmart Supercenter typically have live > plants? How big of a plastic plant would you reccommend for the 4 > gallon fishbowl? Maybe a 12"? > I will plan on putting something opaque between my fish and my > suitemate's fish when I'm babysitting cause they'll both be bettas and > both males. > Anyway, I would appreciate if you folks could tell me how to pick out > a healthy betta. > Thanks, > Kathy > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>, "kl_whitney" <kl_whitney@...> > wrote: > > > > Once again, private emails are preferred due to the fact that this > is a very active group. > > My suitemate is getting a beta and I agreed to watch him on the > weekends. If I end up with my own fish, how do I prevent her fish from > going bonkers when he's in my room for the weekends? Should I just put > something opaque between the two bowls? Is it true that they get angry > enough to have heart attacks when they see other fish? > > I might get a beta after all. Not sure. If I can find a nice healthy > one at Walmart I may go for the beta over the black moor. Will a beta > feel safe in a 4 gallon bowl? I thought they were one of the few > fishes that prefered small tanks cause they like to be secure. And > once again, if I get a plastic plant, should it be 6", 9", or 12" for > that sized bowl? I want one that's big enough to give the fish plenty > of hiding space. > > Oh, and what do I look for as far as signs of good health go in a > beta? I know that they're pretty mellow unless they're exposed to > other fish. So how do I tell if he's healthy? > > -Kathy > > > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 43013	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 8/29/2009
Subject: Re: bettas?

ARGGGHH.. I just got done typing a LONG email reply to your off-list reply to me. I wish I would have looked here to see that you are re-thinking your plan. But I did end it encouraging you to get a Betta so I'm glad you made that choice on your own. See that reply as well. Your 4G bowl will make a GREAT home for a Betta. As far as picking out a healthy Betta at Walmart??? I would find out when they get their deliveries and be there when they arrive to see what kind of shape they are in. If most arrive alive, then things are looking up. If a lot are dead, you might want to forego till the next shipment. Obviously, the longer the stay in them little cups the worse off they will be. You know, you can mail-order a live Betta from many places and you would get a much better quality fish than from the WalMart but you will also pay more and shipping expenses. Also, get a decent Betta pellet food (see my off-list reply for looking at ingredients) and put one pellet in each cup of the Bettas that interest you and see how well they react to the food. If they react well and are looking for more, that's a good sign. This feeding test is a good one for any fish, not just Bettas. Most of the Walmart/PetsMart Bettas go on to live reasonably healthy lives, even in vases so your 4G bowl will be like a mansion for your Betta. As long as you don't pick one that is completely sick from the start, your Betta will probably live with you for your entire college career... as long as you don't go for the career student route like one of my old college buddies who took 10 years to graduate... and then decided to go for his masters degree. I lost track of him so as far as I know, he could still be in school today. LOL While the average life span of a Betta might only be 2-3 years, this is due to them being stuck in those little quart sized vases with poor water quality and crappy diets. In a proper sized tank, like your 4G bowl, with live plants and a nice ecology and water quality... and decent foods, Bettas can live for 7-10 years. The last one I had was a Katrina rescue from a flooded home in my neighborhood and I first had to move him from the little quart sized vase to a 1.5G vase and then into his own 10G planted and lightly filtered tank. He lived for another 18 months with me and his original owner said he was about 2 years old when I rescued him. He lived a rough life though, including being stuck in a flooded moldy home for a week until I found out he was in there and I broke in (with the owners permission) and rescued him. I was surprised to see he was still alive considering the temperatures were in the 90's and probably much higher in that closed up home with no power or fresh air. They are tough little fish. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of kl_whitney Sent: Saturday, August 29, 2009 6:19 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: bettas? Hi all, Decided that a betta is better, even though they're not my favorite fish. A black moor would be too much work. What signs of health do I look for in a betta? Also, I highly doubt I can get a live plant for him. I would have to drive an hour to get to the nearest city with a real pet store. IDK, does a Walmart Supercenter typically have live plants? How big of a plastic plant would you reccommend for the 4 gallon fishbowl? Maybe a 12"? I will plan on putting something opaque between my fish and my suitemate's fish when I'm babysitting cause they'll both be bettas and both males. Anyway, I would appreciate if you folks could tell me how to pick out a healthy betta. Thanks, Kathy --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "kl_whitney" <kl_whitney@...> wrote: > > Once again, private emails are preferred due to the fact that this is a very active group. > My suitemate is getting a beta and I agreed to watch him on the weekends. If I end up with my own fish, how do I prevent her fish from going bonkers when he's in my room for the weekends? Should I just put something opaque between the two bowls? Is it true that they get angry enough to have heart attacks when they see other fish? > I might get a beta after all. Not sure. If I can find a nice healthy one at Walmart I may go for the beta over the black moor. Will a beta feel safe in a 4 gallon bowl? I thought they were one of the few fishes that prefered small tanks cause they like to be secure. And once again, if I get a plastic plant, should it be 6", 9", or 12" for that sized bowl? I want one that's big enough to give the fish plenty of hiding space. > Oh, and what do I look for as far as signs of good health go in a beta? I know that they're pretty mellow unless they're exposed to other fish. So how do I tell if he's healthy? > -Kathy >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 43014	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 8/29/2009
Subject: Re: betas?

Do NOT get plastic plants for Bettas. Silk would be better since many plastic plants have sharp/rough edges that can damage their fins. See my off-list email also about live plants. You can get a broad leaf silk plant as a centerpiece type plant and then some live Anacharis or other easy to grow live plants to make the ecology better. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of kl_whitney Sent: Saturday, August 29, 2009 1:20 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] betas? Once again, private emails are preferred due to the fact that this is a very active group. My suitemate is getting a beta and I agreed to watch him on the weekends. If I end up with my own fish, how do I prevent her fish from going bonkers when he's in my room for the weekends? Should I just put something opaque between the two bowls? Is it true that they get angry enough to have heart attacks when they see other fish? I might get a beta after all. Not sure. If I can find a nice healthy one at Walmart I may go for the beta over the black moor. Will a beta feel safe in a 4 gallon bowl? I thought they were one of the few fishes that prefered small tanks cause they like to be secure. And once again, if I get a plastic plant, should it be 6", 9", or 12" for that sized bowl? I want one that's big enough to give the fish plenty of hiding space. Oh, and what do I look for as far as signs of good health go in a beta? I know that they're pretty mellow unless they're exposed to other fish. So how do I tell if he's healthy? -Kathy

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 43015	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 8/29/2009
Subject: Re: dimensions?

I've never had a bowl for fish so I'm not sure what a 4G bowl looks like. Is it completely round like a beach ball with a smaller opening in the top or is it like a Punch Bowl where it has a big full size opening in the top or is it flat on two sides like some of the smaller "goldfish bowls" (God, I hate that name.. lol) that then curve back up to a smaller opening at the top? If you already bought it, hopefully the box has dimensions on it or a picture. You mentioned getting it at WalMart so I'm looking at the WalMart.com site but I do not see a fish bowl on their site and they don't even have listings for all of the other tanks that they use to have... just listings for five under 3G sized tanks. I was looking at what kind of fake plants and decorations that WalMart.com has and I see a bowl on that page. http://www.walmart.com/catalog/product.do?product_id=10321806#ProductDetail It doesn't say what size but if this is the type you have, at least it has a BIG MOUTH opening. The ones that curve up to a smaller mouth actually are not as good for the fish as it takes away from the surface area of the tank and surface area is needed for proper gas exchange of CO2 out of the water and O2 into the water. Instead of aquarium gravel or marbles, check out getting a pound or two of pea gravel from the Garden Section and use this. I think it looks better than the funky colored gravels that many of us have used but if you like the marbles or colored gravel, the fish don't seem to mind. I like the natural look. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of kl_whitney Sent: Saturday, August 29, 2009 6:23 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: dimensions? Thanks, Lenny. I'm planning on getting a betta now, because what you said about caring for a goldfish in a bowl is just way too much work for my busy schedule. So I still would like to know the dimensions of the average 4 gallon bowl so I'll know what size "plant" and what amount of glass pebbles to get him. I really doubt I'll find a live plant at Walmart. -Kathy --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@...> wrote: > > A goldfish will not work, AT ALL, in a glass bowl, even a BIG 4G glass bowl. > It's not that they prefer a bigger tank, they NEED a BIG tank. Even a > 10-20G isn't big enough, except for maybe a few months when goldfish > are still really small. For long term success, to ensure proper > growth and limit the pollution they have to sustain, a 55G, 48" long > tank is about the smallest one should have for a couple of fancy > goldfish. Even fancy goldfish grow to 6" to 8" long but still have a > similar body mass to long-bodied 12" to 15" goldfish. An adult > goldfish is equal in body mass to over 500 1" goldfish so trying to > keep one in an undersized tank would be like trying to put 500 > goldfish in an undersized tank. While I say a 55G works long term, > even it must be taken care of on a weekly basis or the water quality > will deteriorate rapidly. They still put out LOTS of ammonia, pee and > poop (as does any BIG fish) so they need the water volume to dilute > the waste enough in between doing tank maintenance so that the water is not too polluted. > > If you were going to use a 4G bowl as a temporary home for a goldfish, > WHICH I STRONGLY ADVISE AGAINST DOING, but I understand your > predicament, you would have to do daily 1G PWC's to keep a constant > flow of fresh clean water into the bowl and to siphon out fish waste, > from the gravel to further keep the water from getting polluted too > bad. I'm guessing you were not going to use a filter on this bowl? > If not, you are going to see BAD cycling issues in the beginning so I > strongly suggest that you get some live plants, like Anacharis, that > can be left floating on the top or anchored down in the gravel to help > with removing the ammonia/nitrite during the cycling process and also > use SeaChem's Prime as your dechlor product as Prime will help to make > the ammonia less toxic. Adding a pinch of salt with each PWC will also help prevent nitrite poisoning. > > Knowing the water parameters of your dorm's tap water would also help > us give you better advice. > > When they say "a single fish as a pet.... but not aquariums", do they > not realize that a bowl is just an aquarium that is round in shape? > Or do they mean you can't have powered accessories like lighting, > filter, air pump, etc.? > > If it has to be an un-powered container, you should go with a 10G tank > (WalMart sells them for around $10.00) which would make things better > for the fish and easier for you and then you would eventually be able > to move the goldfish to a proper sized tank one day and still have the > 10G tank to use for other fish you may want to get one day. You could > also get the low cost fluorescent light strip and top for the 10G tank > which would at least give the plants some good lighting so they would > grow better, which would also help keep the water quality up and with > a 10G tank, instead of a 4G bowl, you might be able to put off tank > maintenance to every other day. You could then do daily 1G PWC's or > maybe 25% PWC's every other day, once the tank is cycled. You would > still have to use the Prime dechlor product, since without a filter, the tank will have trouble getting cycled properly. > You would also have more room for more live plants which would help > with removing the nitrogenous waste and keeping the CO2 levels lower > and raising the O2 levels (when the lights are on). > > Now, going into the part where you say, "if he gets big" you will give > him to your sister or get a bigger tank. Much of what I said above is > still applicable but this "if he gets big" is a common myth and a BIG > CATCH-22 for the beginner aquarium hobbyist. A fish that is supposed > to get BIG will not get BIG if kept in an undersized tank, which is where the CATCH-22 comes in. > Yes, it's true that many fish will stunt their own grown when kept in > an undersized aquarium as a means of trying to ensure their own > survival... BUT stunting is NOT A GOOD THING for the health of the > fish. Stunted fish will almost always have many, many, many more > health issues and die much earlier than a healthy fish that lives in a > proper sized tank. This stunting process happens due to the level of > hormones in the water and when the hormone level reaches a certain > level, the fish senses this and stops growing. It's God's way (or > Darwinism if you don't believe in God) of trying to ensure the fish > lives... even if not as long or as healthy as the fish would live in a > proper sized home. This can be partly overcome by doing the daily > PWC's, as mentioned above and while this sounds like a workable plan, > I also know how busy we can get as college students or working adults > and them frat parties, kegger's, football games and even the > occasional cramming for an exam will get in the way of doing daily > PWC's and the fish will suffer the consequences... well, you might > also suffer some of the consequences of the partying but IT'S WORTH IT for you... although you might swear that you'll never drink again... until tomorrow! At least, that > was my motto back in the good old days! LOL PARTY ON GARTH!!!! LOL I > guess you can tell I'm from New Orleans! LOL > > OK.. back to the fish. > > WalMart is not a bad place to buy fish. Don't let the PeTA whacko's > make you think that. While there are some WalMart's that do not take > proper care of their fish sections, other WalMart's do a fine job. > This is also true for BIG BOX pet stores like PetsMart's, Petco's and > even LFS' (local fish stores). It all depends on who is put in charge > of taking care of the fish... much like us fish keepers. Some of us > are diligent in keeping our tanks clean and healthy and others let > things go for too long until the tank is a mess and they have sick or > dying fish. I would venture to say that individual fish keepers are > as much responsible for the number of fish that suffer as the BIG BOX > pet stores and/or WalMart's. You just don't see it when it's being done in someone else's home. > > OK... enough for now. I'm sending this reply to the group and to you > directly. Feel free to email me back through the group or directly > and I'll help answer any questions that you or your future suitemate might have.... > WAITAMINUTE.... suite???? Is that just a new-fangled fancy term for a dorm? > I hope they don't just use that as a way of charging you all more > money for the dorm room. LOL > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles > referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically > under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] > On Behalf Of kl_whitney > Sent: Saturday, August 29, 2009 5:27 AM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Subject: [AquaticLife] dimensions? > > Hi all, > First off, as this is a very active list, I would prefer off list > responses so I don't have to sort through the daily digests. > FINALLY transferred schools. I checked the policy on pets with both > the RD and the housing office. I've moved into a dorm that allows a > single fish as a pet...but not aquariums. So I'm stuck with a > fishbowl. I was wondering the dimensions of an average four gallon > (want the biggest one I can get for the well being of the fish) > fishbowl so that I can buy the right sized fake plant and the right > amount of glass pebbles. Will a fish be ok with just glass pebbles, or will I need special gravel? > I really want a small black moor goldfish as opposed to a beta, IDK, I > just don't like betas. Yes I know that a goldfish would prefer to > live in a 10-20 gallon aquarium. It's just that I can't give this > hypothetical fish that right now, but if he gets big I'll definitely > put him in a 20 gallon tank. When he outgrows the bowl, I might give > him to my sister, who has an empty 10 gallon since her frog died. I > bet she'd love that. I think she misses the frog even though she > still has the tarantula in the 10 gallon terrarium next to the empty > one. The 20 gallon tall that's mine was recently used to house a > snake (he outgrew that one and now lives in a 55 > gallon) so I can't put a fish in there unless I take the sticky backed > heat pad off. It's not a heat pad rated to get anywhere near water. > Yes I know that my sister and I have weird pets. > I will have to buy my fish at (cringing because it's a bad place to > buy > fish) Walmart b/c it's the only thing remotely close to a pet store in town. > I've found out when they get their next fish shipment and I will go > within a week of that so that the fish won't have to live at Walmart > very long. I would definitely get a ride to Walmart from a friend > who's going as opposed to taking the campus shuttle, cause I don't > want to subject any animal to a 10 passenger van ride. > One of my suitemates (I'm in a four bedroom suite so I have my own > room but share all other living spaces) is thinking of getting a fish > too, but she goes home on the weekends so I would end up watching her > fish when I'm not home for a long weekend. So there would be two fish > in my room on weekends, but one fish on weekdays. > Anyway, thanks in advance and say hi to all your fish for me! > -Kathy > ------------------------------------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the home page. Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com to receive the digest, which includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com for the No E-Mail option where you will still be able to read messages on the group and post replies. Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com to receive individual e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 43016	From: kl_whitney	Date: 8/30/2009
Subject: Re: betas?

Thanks for the offer of live plants, Lenny. You already know I've taken you up on it and given you my school P.O. box number. I won't be ready for them until I've got the bowl that I ordered online. And I ordered water conditioner just to make shipping worthwhile. Got the betta food locally, the brand is Tetra. Is that an ok brand? How much should I feed him? Someone said their stomachs are about the size of their eye, so should I feed him like three or four little flakes a day? It's small flake food, each flake is like a millimeter or two from what I can tell without opening it too soon. Just from the pic on the jar. Should I set the plants up in the bowl before I get Mr. Fishy (I know that's like the cheesiest name ever, but he'll get a decent name once I "adopt" him...I hate the word "buy" in reference to a living animal) or should I wait until I have him with me? -Kathy --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@...> wrote: > > Do NOT get plastic plants for Bettas. Silk would be better since many > plastic plants have sharp/rough edges that can damage their fins. See my > off-list email also about live plants. You can get a broad leaf silk plant > as a centerpiece type plant and then some live Anacharis or other easy to > grow live plants to make the ecology better. > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right > side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) > > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On > Behalf Of kl_whitney > Sent: Saturday, August 29, 2009 1:20 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Subject: [AquaticLife] betas? > > Once again, private emails are preferred due to the fact that this is a very > active group. > My suitemate is getting a beta and I agreed to watch him on the weekends. > If I end up with my own fish, how do I prevent her fish from going bonkers > when he's in my room for the weekends? Should I just put something opaque > between the two bowls? Is it true that they get angry enough to have heart > attacks when they see other fish? > I might get a beta after all. Not sure. If I can find a nice healthy one > at Walmart I may go for the beta over the black moor. Will a beta feel safe > in a 4 gallon bowl? I thought they were one of the few fishes that prefered > small tanks cause they like to be secure. And once again, if I get a > plastic plant, should it be 6", 9", or 12" for that sized bowl? I want one > that's big enough to give the fish plenty of hiding space. > Oh, and what do I look for as far as signs of good health go in a beta? I > know that they're pretty mellow unless they're exposed to other fish. So > how do I tell if he's healthy? > -Kathy >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 43017	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 8/30/2009
Subject: Re: betas?

It's best to set up the tank completely, including aquascaping (decorations, plants, etc.), the day before you bring home the fish. This gives the tank a chance to stabilize to room temperature, outgas anything that needs to be outgased (like possibly higher CO2 levels from the tap, etc.). When you bring home your fish, he'll probably be in one of them cup sized containers so you'll have to slowly acclimate him to your tank and your water parameters. Presuming it will not be full, using a small measuring device (your turkey baster will work or a small measuring cup), add about an ounce of water from your tank to the Betta's cup. Wait a few minutes and add another ounce of water from your tank. Do this until the Betta's cup is nearly full. Keep the cup loosely covered with something to keep the Betta from jumping out but that gives him room to breathe at the surface. As the cup gets full, you'll have to transfer him to a slightly larger container and continue adding one ounce of your tank water ever few minutes until you have doubled the amount of water the Betta is in. Then remove 25% of that water and then start adding two ounces of your tank water every few minutes. When your slightly larger container is nearly full, remove 25% and continue. After 30 minutes or so, your Betta should be in mostly your tank water so you can start removing 50% of the water and replacing it with tank water. After that, you can "pour" the Betta into your tank. Normally, you would NOT pour fish store water into your tank since the fish were living in a tank with other fish and you wouldn't want to transfer any pathogens to your other fish but since the Betta was kept by himself in the cup and will be living by himself in your tank, there's no threat of cross-contamination so if you end up with a residual amount of the original cup water that has been diluted over and over with your tank water, this will not be a problem. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of kl_whitney Sent: Sunday, August 30, 2009 8:12 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: betas? Thanks for the offer of live plants, Lenny. You already know I've taken you up on it and given you my school P.O. box number. I won't be ready for them until I've got the bowl that I ordered online. And I ordered water conditioner just to make shipping worthwhile. Got the betta food locally, the brand is Tetra. Is that an ok brand? How much should I feed him? Someone said their stomachs are about the size of their eye, so should I feed him like three or four little flakes a day? It's small flake food, each flake is like a millimeter or two from what I can tell without opening it too soon. Just from the pic on the jar. Should I set the plants up in the bowl before I get Mr. Fishy (I know that's like the cheesiest name ever, but he'll get a decent name once I "adopt" him...I hate the word "buy" in reference to a living animal) or should I wait until I have him with me? -Kathy --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@...> wrote: > > Do NOT get plastic plants for Bettas. Silk would be better since many > plastic plants have sharp/rough edges that can damage their fins. See > my off-list email also about live plants. You can get a broad leaf > silk plant as a centerpiece type plant and then some live Anacharis or > other easy to grow live plants to make the ecology better. > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles > referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically > under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) > > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] > On Behalf Of kl_whitney > Sent: Saturday, August 29, 2009 1:20 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Subject: [AquaticLife] betas? > > Once again, private emails are preferred due to the fact that this is > a very active group. > My suitemate is getting a beta and I agreed to watch him on the weekends. > If I end up with my own fish, how do I prevent her fish from going > bonkers when he's in my room for the weekends? Should I just put > something opaque between the two bowls? Is it true that they get > angry enough to have heart attacks when they see other fish? > I might get a beta after all. Not sure. If I can find a nice healthy > one at Walmart I may go for the beta over the black moor. Will a beta > feel safe in a 4 gallon bowl? I thought they were one of the few > fishes that prefered small tanks cause they like to be secure. And > once again, if I get a plastic plant, should it be 6", 9", or 12" for > that sized bowl? I want one that's big enough to give the fish plenty of hiding space. > Oh, and what do I look for as far as signs of good health go in a > beta? I know that they're pretty mellow unless they're exposed to > other fish. So how do I tell if he's healthy? > -Kathy >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 43018	From: Dora Smith	Date: 8/30/2009
Subject: Re: [Bulk] [AquaticLife] Re: betas?

How much to feed a betta depends partly on the activity level of the betta, which can vary by water conditions, size of container, and temperature. My housemate kept her betta in one of those little cup containers it came in from Walmart or whatever, and kept it on the TV set in a 76 degree room, and it hardly mved, and she fed it a couple of dried blood worms or tube worms every other day. Directions on my atison's (Ocean Nutrition) betta pellets, which are small, say to feed about seven pellets once or twice a day. I feed several at a time. The directions on the larger Hikari betta biogold pellets say to feed 2 to 4 pellets 2 to 3 times a day. Now, a betta really snatches food, so they'll easily overeat if you feed them as mcuh as they'll eat in three minutes. My betta gets mosquito and other small insect larva from the algae rock farm out back, but the birds have been getting to them before I do lately. If feeding other than mosquito larva it is necessary that the betta catch the larva before it sinks. Yours, Dora Smith Austin, TX tiggernut24@... ----- Original Message ----- From: "kl_whitney" <kl_whitney@...> To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Sunday, August 30, 2009 8:12 AM Subject: [Bulk] [AquaticLife] Re: betas? Thanks for the offer of live plants, Lenny. You already know I've taken you up on it and given you my school P.O. box number. I won't be ready for them until I've got the bowl that I ordered online. And I ordered water conditioner just to make shipping worthwhile. Got the betta food locally, the brand is Tetra. Is that an ok brand? How much should I feed him? Someone said their stomachs are about the size of their eye, so should I feed him like three or four little flakes a day? It's small flake food, each flake is like a millimeter or two from what I can tell without opening it too soon. Just from the pic on the jar. Should I set the plants up in the bowl before I get Mr. Fishy (I know that's like the cheesiest name ever, but he'll get a decent name once I "adopt" him...I hate the word "buy" in reference to a living animal) or should I wait until I have him with me? -Kathy --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@...> wrote: > > Do NOT get plastic plants for Bettas. Silk would be better since many > plastic plants have sharp/rough edges that can damage their fins. See my > off-list email also about live plants. You can get a broad leaf silk > plant > as a centerpiece type plant and then some live Anacharis or other easy to > grow live plants to make the ecology better. > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right > side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) > > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On > Behalf Of kl_whitney > Sent: Saturday, August 29, 2009 1:20 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Subject: [AquaticLife] betas? > > Once again, private emails are preferred due to the fact that this is a > very > active group. > My suitemate is getting a beta and I agreed to watch him on the weekends. > If I end up with my own fish, how do I prevent her fish from going bonkers > when he's in my room for the weekends? Should I just put something opaque > between the two bowls? Is it true that they get angry enough to have > heart > attacks when they see other fish? > I might get a beta after all. Not sure. If I can find a nice healthy one > at Walmart I may go for the beta over the black moor. Will a beta feel > safe > in a 4 gallon bowl? I thought they were one of the few fishes that > prefered > small tanks cause they like to be secure. And once again, if I get a > plastic plant, should it be 6", 9", or 12" for that sized bowl? I want > one > that's big enough to give the fish plenty of hiding space. > Oh, and what do I look for as far as signs of good health go in a beta? I > know that they're pretty mellow unless they're exposed to other fish. So > how do I tell if he's healthy? > -Kathy > ------------------------------------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the home page. Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com to receive the digest, which includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com for the No E-Mail option where you will still be able to read messages on the group and post replies. Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com to receive individual e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 43019	From: Dora Smith	Date: 8/30/2009
Subject: Re: bettas?

Those cute little black cube things at Petsmart are only about 1/2 gallon. Yours, Dora Smith Austin, TX tiggernut24@... ----- Original Message ----- From: "Amber Berglund" <arberglund@...> To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com>; "kl_whitney" <kl_whitney@...> Sent: Saturday, August 29, 2009 6:31 PM Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: bettas? > Walmart up here once had in these cute little black cube aquariums that > were I think only 2 gallons, not quite sure. But they had a little light > and a filter (bubble type) included, just needed a little gravel I > think. They were pretty cheap you might look for something like that. > My walmart doesn't even have fish so I can't advise if they will have > plants ;) but you could ask them, no harm in trying, they might have > some really easy to grow popular kinds, never know. When you look at the > bettas look for signs of stress, they will sometimes be lethargic and > not swim much, or be left in a very dirty cup. I'm picky and I only pick > out the very active males in the cleaner looking cups because some fish > stores don't change their betta cups often enough IMO. Just look for an > active male and you should be okay, if they aren't doing much when you > pick up the cup or move it a little bit they might just be overly > stressed from shipping or dirty water. Mostly look for a male that you > think is pretty and you want to look at. > I have a pretty blue with some purple on him, he is a crown tail too, > very pretty. > > Amber > > kl_whitney wrote: >> >> >> Hi all, >> Decided that a betta is better, even though they're not my favorite >> fish. A black moor would be too much work. What signs of health do I >> look for in a betta? Also, I highly doubt I can get a live plant for >> him. I would have to drive an hour to get to the nearest city with a >> real pet store. IDK, does a Walmart Supercenter typically have live >> plants? How big of a plastic plant would you reccommend for the 4 >> gallon fishbowl? Maybe a 12"? >> I will plan on putting something opaque between my fish and my >> suitemate's fish when I'm babysitting cause they'll both be bettas and >> both males. >> Anyway, I would appreciate if you folks could tell me how to pick out >> a healthy betta. >> Thanks, >> Kathy >> >> --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com >> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>, "kl_whitney" <kl_whitney@...> >> wrote: >> > >> > Once again, private emails are preferred due to the fact that this >> is a very active group. >> > My suitemate is getting a beta and I agreed to watch him on the >> weekends. If I end up with my own fish, how do I prevent her fish from >> going bonkers when he's in my room for the weekends? Should I just put >> something opaque between the two bowls? Is it true that they get angry >> enough to have heart attacks when they see other fish? >> > I might get a beta after all. Not sure. If I can find a nice healthy >> one at Walmart I may go for the beta over the black moor. Will a beta >> feel safe in a 4 gallon bowl? I thought they were one of the few >> fishes that prefered small tanks cause they like to be secure. And >> once again, if I get a plastic plant, should it be 6", 9", or 12" for >> that sized bowl? I want one that's big enough to give the fish plenty >> of hiding space. >> > Oh, and what do I look for as far as signs of good health go in a >> beta? I know that they're pretty mellow unless they're exposed to >> other fish. So how do I tell if he's healthy? >> > -Kathy >> > >> >> > > > ------------------------------------ > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. > ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> > PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to > the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the > SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- > <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. > > If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of unsubscribing, you > can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the > home page. > > Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com to receive the digest, which > includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email > > Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com for the No E-Mail option where > you will still be able to read messages on the group and post replies. > > Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com to receive individual > e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links > > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 43020	From: Dora Smith	Date: 8/30/2009
Subject: Re: betas?

LOL. You don't have to put them close together. One thing; look out for your roommate keeping the betta in a little cup, which risks having hte fish dead when he comes back. I'm not following why it makes a difference to your downloading capacity if e-mails are public or private. Someone did tell you your life would be easier if you subscribed to individual e-mails rather than a digest, and you also have the option of reading list posts online, or getting a Yahoo e-mail account and reading that online, if you prefer. Yours, Dora Smith Austin, TX tiggernut24@... ----- Original Message ----- From: "kl_whitney" <kl_whitney@...> To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Saturday, August 29, 2009 1:20 PM Subject: [AquaticLife] betas? Once again, private emails are preferred due to the fact that this is a very active group. My suitemate is getting a beta and I agreed to watch him on the weekends. If I end up with my own fish, how do I prevent her fish from going bonkers when he's in my room for the weekends? Should I just put something opaque between the two bowls? Is it true that they get angry enough to have heart attacks when they see other fish? I might get a beta after all. Not sure. If I can find a nice healthy one at Walmart I may go for the beta over the black moor. Will a beta feel safe in a 4 gallon bowl? I thought they were one of the few fishes that prefered small tanks cause they like to be secure. And once again, if I get a plastic plant, should it be 6", 9", or 12" for that sized bowl? I want one that's big enough to give the fish plenty of hiding space. Oh, and what do I look for as far as signs of good health go in a beta? I know that they're pretty mellow unless they're exposed to other fish. So how do I tell if he's healthy? -Kathy ------------------------------------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the home page. Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com to receive the digest, which includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com for the No E-Mail option where you will still be able to read messages on the group and post replies. Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com to receive individual e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 43021	From: Dora Smith	Date: 8/30/2009
Subject: Re: [Bulk] RE: [AquaticLife] Re: bettas?

One thing. Beware of bettas in blue stuff - it makes them look bluer than they are. Nathaniel the Fish is a plain old pink-purple-sort-of betta with half a tail, but in the container in that blue stuff at Petsmart I thought he was deep blue. I'd stay away from live plants until you've got some experience. But with a four gallon bowl you should be able to siphon out the bottom of the tank with a small siphon for partial water changes, which you'd do about every day unless you set up a filter and so forth, and if tyou do that, be careful that the water doesn't move very fast. Bettas like still water. It's pretty complicated for a beginner, and bettas actually like frequent water changes better. As to health, most of all make sure the fish has that healthy fish look about it. It shouldn't have spots or fuzz or damaged fins, or scales or eyes that stick out. Yours, Dora Smith Austin, TX tiggernut24@... -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of kl_whitney Sent: Saturday, August 29, 2009 6:19 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: bettas? Hi all, Decided that a betta is better, even though they're not my favorite fish. A black moor would be too much work. What signs of health do I look for in a betta? Also, I highly doubt I can get a live plant for him. I would have to drive an hour to get to the nearest city with a real pet store. IDK, does a Walmart Supercenter typically have live plants? How big of a plastic plant would you reccommend for the 4 gallon fishbowl? Maybe a 12"? I will plan on putting something opaque between my fish and my suitemate's fish when I'm babysitting cause they'll both be bettas and both males. Anyway, I would appreciate if you folks could tell me how to pick out a healthy betta. Thanks, Kathy

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 43022	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 8/30/2009
Subject: FW: AQUAFEST IS COMING!!!!

For those of you who live in the DC Metro area, or those who wish to travel and stay for the weekend, here is where to find the info on the Potomac Valley Aquarium Society’s Aquafest in October. \\Steve// Sent: Wednesday, August 26, 2009 4:02 PM Subject: AQUAFEST IS COMING!!!! WHAT: Aquafest 2009 WHEN: October 16-18, 2009 WHERE: Holiday Inn, Laurel Park West WHO: Jointly Hosted by PVAS, CCA and GWAPA WHY: Because three of the best clubs in the area want to bring in the best speakers, hold a giant auction and all species fish show, and bring you the best aquarium event ever!!! SCHEDULE: Friday, October 16 -- Set-Up. Saturday, October 17 -- Talks, Lunch, Fish Show, Vendors, Banquet 9:00 AM - Ken Davis <http://aquafest2009.org/speakers/KenDavis.htm> , "The Fishes of Uruguay" 10:30 AM - Jason Baliban <http://aquafest2009.org/speakers/JasonBaliban.htm> , "Aquascaping and Photography" 12 noon - Lunch in the Atrium 1:30 PM - Randy Carey <http://aquafest2009.org/speakers/RandyCarey.htm> , "Making Sense of the Barbs, Danios, and Rasboras" 3:00 PM - GWAPA Aquascaping Demo 7 PM – Banquet Sunday, October 18 -- All Day Auction and Pizza Party! Don’t miss your chance to hear well-known speakers at a low-price, combined with vendor demonstrations, a fish show (allowing all types of fish, not just cichlids and catfish), and an aquascaping demonstration. Registration is underway now: REGISTER AT: http://aquafest2009.org/register.htm <http://aquafest2009.org/register.htm> MORE INFORMATION AT: http://aquafest2009.org [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 43023	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 8/30/2009
Subject: Re: bettas?

How tall are they? The ones at walmart were about a foot tall by about 6 inches wide, not sure how many gallons it held for sure. I thought my sister told me her's was 2 gallons though. Amber Dora Smith wrote: > > > Those cute little black cube things at Petsmart are only about 1/2 gallon. > > Yours, > Dora Smith > Austin, TX > tiggernut24@... <mailto:tiggernut24%40yahoo.com> > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Amber Berglund" <arberglund@... > <mailto:arberglund%40gmail.com>> > To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>>; "kl_whitney" > <kl_whitney@... <mailto:kl_whitney%40yahoo.com>> > Sent: Saturday, August 29, 2009 6:31 PM > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: bettas? > > > Walmart up here once had in these cute little black cube aquariums that > > were I think only 2 gallons, not quite sure. But they had a little light > > and a filter (bubble type) included, just needed a little gravel I > > think. They were pretty cheap you might look for something like that. > > My walmart doesn't even have fish so I can't advise if they will have > > plants ;) but you could ask them, no harm in trying, they might have > > some really easy to grow popular kinds, never know. When you look at the > > bettas look for signs of stress, they will sometimes be lethargic and > > not swim much, or be left in a very dirty cup. I'm picky and I only pick > > out the very active males in the cleaner looking cups because some fish > > stores don't change their betta cups often enough IMO. Just look for an > > active male and you should be okay, if they aren't doing much when you > > pick up the cup or move it a little bit they might just be overly > > stressed from shipping or dirty water. Mostly look for a male that you > > think is pretty and you want to look at. > > I have a pretty blue with some purple on him, he is a crown tail too, > > very pretty. > > > > Amber > > > > kl_whitney wrote: > >> > >> > >> Hi all, > >> Decided that a betta is better, even though they're not my favorite > >> fish. A black moor would be too much work. What signs of health do I > >> look for in a betta? Also, I highly doubt I can get a live plant for > >> him. I would have to drive an hour to get to the nearest city with a > >> real pet store. IDK, does a Walmart Supercenter typically have live > >> plants? How big of a plastic plant would you reccommend for the 4 > >> gallon fishbowl? Maybe a 12"? > >> I will plan on putting something opaque between my fish and my > >> suitemate's fish when I'm babysitting cause they'll both be bettas and > >> both males. > >> Anyway, I would appreciate if you folks could tell me how to pick out > >> a healthy betta. > >> Thanks, > >> Kathy > >> > >> --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > >> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>, "kl_whitney" <kl_whitney@...> > >> wrote: > >> > > >> > Once again, private emails are preferred due to the fact that this > >> is a very active group. > >> > My suitemate is getting a beta and I agreed to watch him on the > >> weekends. If I end up with my own fish, how do I prevent her fish from > >> going bonkers when he's in my room for the weekends? Should I just put > >> something opaque between the two bowls? Is it true that they get angry > >> enough to have heart attacks when they see other fish? > >> > I might get a beta after all. Not sure. If I can find a nice healthy > >> one at Walmart I may go for the beta over the black moor. Will a beta > >> feel safe in a 4 gallon bowl? I thought they were one of the few > >> fishes that prefered small tanks cause they like to be secure. And > >> once again, if I get a plastic plant, should it be 6", 9", or 12" for > >> that sized bowl? I want one that's big enough to give the fish plenty > >> of hiding space. > >> > Oh, and what do I look for as far as signs of good health go in a > >> beta? I know that they're pretty mellow unless they're exposed to > >> other fish. So how do I tell if he's healthy? > >> > -Kathy > >> > > >> > >> > > > > > > ------------------------------------ > > > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, > Thank You. > > ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> > > PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT > important to > > the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the > > SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- > > <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. > > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. > > > > If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of > unsubscribing, you > > can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My Membership" > on the > > home page. > > > > Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:aquaticlife-digest%40yahoogroups.com> to receive the digest, > which > > includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email > > > > Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:aquaticlife-nomail%40yahoogroups.com> for the No E-Mail option > where > > you will still be able to read messages on the group and post replies. > > > > Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:aquaticlife-normal%40yahoogroups.com> to receive individual > > e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 43024	From: gambusiaaffinis	Date: 8/31/2009
Subject: Tadpole legs

Once an American Bullfrog tadpole has developed its hind limbs, how long does it take for the front legs to fully develop including all four toes?

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 43025	From: Dora Smith	Date: 8/31/2009
Subject: Re: bettas?

Maybe six inches on a side. Yours, Dora Smith Austin, TX tiggernut24@... ----- Original Message ----- From: "Amber Berglund" <arberglund@...> To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Sunday, August 30, 2009 5:19 PM Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: bettas? > How tall are they? The ones at walmart were about a foot tall by about 6 > inches wide, not sure how many gallons it held for sure. I thought my > sister told me her's was 2 gallons though. > > Amber > > Dora Smith wrote: >> >> >> Those cute little black cube things at Petsmart are only about 1/2 >> gallon. >> >> Yours, >> Dora Smith >> Austin, TX >> tiggernut24@... <mailto:tiggernut24%40yahoo.com> >> ----- Original Message ----- >> From: "Amber Berglund" <arberglund@... >> <mailto:arberglund%40gmail.com>> >> To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com >> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>>; "kl_whitney" >> <kl_whitney@... <mailto:kl_whitney%40yahoo.com>> >> Sent: Saturday, August 29, 2009 6:31 PM >> Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: bettas? >> >> > Walmart up here once had in these cute little black cube aquariums that >> > were I think only 2 gallons, not quite sure. But they had a little >> > light >> > and a filter (bubble type) included, just needed a little gravel I >> > think. They were pretty cheap you might look for something like that. >> > My walmart doesn't even have fish so I can't advise if they will have >> > plants ;) but you could ask them, no harm in trying, they might have >> > some really easy to grow popular kinds, never know. When you look at >> > the >> > bettas look for signs of stress, they will sometimes be lethargic and >> > not swim much, or be left in a very dirty cup. I'm picky and I only >> > pick >> > out the very active males in the cleaner looking cups because some fish >> > stores don't change their betta cups often enough IMO. Just look for an >> > active male and you should be okay, if they aren't doing much when you >> > pick up the cup or move it a little bit they might just be overly >> > stressed from shipping or dirty water. Mostly look for a male that you >> > think is pretty and you want to look at. >> > I have a pretty blue with some purple on him, he is a crown tail too, >> > very pretty. >> > >> > Amber >> > >> > kl_whitney wrote: >> >> >> >> >> >> Hi all, >> >> Decided that a betta is better, even though they're not my favorite >> >> fish. A black moor would be too much work. What signs of health do I >> >> look for in a betta? Also, I highly doubt I can get a live plant for >> >> him. I would have to drive an hour to get to the nearest city with a >> >> real pet store. IDK, does a Walmart Supercenter typically have live >> >> plants? How big of a plastic plant would you reccommend for the 4 >> >> gallon fishbowl? Maybe a 12"? >> >> I will plan on putting something opaque between my fish and my >> >> suitemate's fish when I'm babysitting cause they'll both be bettas and >> >> both males. >> >> Anyway, I would appreciate if you folks could tell me how to pick out >> >> a healthy betta. >> >> Thanks, >> >> Kathy >> >> >> >> --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com >> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> >> >> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>, "kl_whitney" <kl_whitney@...> >> >> wrote: >> >> > >> >> > Once again, private emails are preferred due to the fact that this >> >> is a very active group. >> >> > My suitemate is getting a beta and I agreed to watch him on the >> >> weekends. If I end up with my own fish, how do I prevent her fish from >> >> going bonkers when he's in my room for the weekends? Should I just put >> >> something opaque between the two bowls? Is it true that they get angry >> >> enough to have heart attacks when they see other fish? >> >> > I might get a beta after all. Not sure. If I can find a nice healthy >> >> one at Walmart I may go for the beta over the black moor. Will a beta >> >> feel safe in a 4 gallon bowl? I thought they were one of the few >> >> fishes that prefered small tanks cause they like to be secure. And >> >> once again, if I get a plastic plant, should it be 6", 9", or 12" for >> >> that sized bowl? I want one that's big enough to give the fish plenty >> >> of hiding space. >> >> > Oh, and what do I look for as far as signs of good health go in a >> >> beta? I know that they're pretty mellow unless they're exposed to >> >> other fish. So how do I tell if he's healthy? >> >> > -Kathy >> >> > >> >> >> >> >> > >> > >> > ------------------------------------ >> > >> > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, >> Thank You. >> > ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , >> > .·´¯`·..><((((º> >> > PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT >> important to >> > the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the >> > SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- >> > <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. >> > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. >> > >> > If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of >> unsubscribing, you >> > can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My Membership" >> on the >> > home page. >> > >> > Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com >> <mailto:aquaticlife-digest%40yahoogroups.com> to receive the digest, >> which >> > includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email >> > >> > Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com >> <mailto:aquaticlife-nomail%40yahoogroups.com> for the No E-Mail option >> where >> > you will still be able to read messages on the group and post replies. >> > >> > Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com >> <mailto:aquaticlife-normal%40yahoogroups.com> to receive individual >> > e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links >> > >> > >> > >> >> > > > ------------------------------------ > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. > ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> > PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to > the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the > SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- > <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. > > If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of unsubscribing, you > can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the > home page. > > Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com to receive the digest, which > includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email > > Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com for the No E-Mail option where > you will still be able to read messages on the group and post replies. > > Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com to receive individual > e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links > > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 43026	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 8/31/2009
Subject: Re: Tadpole legs

I don't know for certain but I'm pretty sure it takes a LONG time for them to make the full metamorphosis from tadpole to adult frog. I've had them in ponds down here before and it would be months and months before any surviving tadpoles would leave the pond and they'd be BIG, like 6" to 8" long. Usually, when any frogs or toads would lay eggs in my ponds, I'd remove as many as I could since I had three mini-ponds (less than 1,000G each) and hundreds or thousands of tadpoles would be a major bioload burden for the goldfish. I was curious so I had to do a little Googling and reading to see what the answer was. I'm not sure if this Wikipedia type article is accurate but it says... "... Tadpole development, which is slow, may take between one and three years for the transformation from a tadpole to an adult (Bruening 2002). It may even take up to four years in northern latitudes (Quebec, Canada) (Grzimek et al. 2004). There are three major changes that take place during the metamorphosis: 1.Premetamorphisis which is when the embryo genesis and growth and development occur, during this time the thyroid gland is absent. 2.Prometamorphisis is the period in which the concentration of the endogenous thyroid hormone rises. 3.Metamorphosis is the period when the tadpole's tail shrinks back into the frog's body. Other organs also undergo changes such as the liver and the intestine. The gills are absorbed as well. After metamorphosis, it takes an additional two years to reach sexual maturity (Bruening 2002). The adult frog can live up to 13 years, with the record of an animal in captivity being 16 years. The average bullfrog lives from seven to nine years in the wild (Bruening 2002)...." Here's the link to the Wiki article - http://www.newworldencyclopedia.org/entry/Bullfrog Here's a better website with pictures of each stage but no timeline related to the pictures but the website may have a timeline on another page. They do have this general timeline at the top of the page but I think this is for "ALL" frogs in general, not the American Bullfrog, although these pictures are of the American Bullfrog. http://seapics.com/feature-subject/amphibians/frog-lifecycle-pictures-001.ht ml This page http://www.bullfrogs.com/Bullfrog-Life-Cycle.html kind of reiterates that Wiki-type article above. This page http://el.erdc.usace.army.mil/ansrp/ANSIS/html/rana_catesbeiana_shaw_1802_bu llfrog.htm also has a section about the lifecycle. In reviewing all of the above, it seems like the tadpole stage has more to do with the climate/temperature where the metamorphosis happens a lot faster in warm climates and much slower in cooler climates. I think this is why you are having trouble finding an accurate answer to your particular timeline about the front legs and toes.... as the answer is, "It depends". Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of gambusiaaffinis Sent: Sunday, August 30, 2009 11:20 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Tadpole legs Once an American Bullfrog tadpole has developed its hind limbs, how long does it take for the front legs to fully develop including all four toes?

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 43027	From: moiragrubb2000	Date: 8/31/2009
Subject: Re: oscar ill

--- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "sevenspringss" <sevenspringss@...> wrote: > ray i had a bit of bother getting epsom salts as lot of shops dont sell it but got it today and is in tank would appreciate your advice on whether i can treat tank with this in just worried that maybe he got internal bacteria would i be able to put an internal bacteria in tank or would i be better holding fire to see what happens i notice that he seems to be rubbing his belly gently on the driftwood that what it looks like anyway how long can a fish this size go without eating mo > Those measurements using Epsom Salt in amounts of water are in U.S. Gallons. This often works and is sure worth a try. As you have no other large tank to isolate either the Oscar or the Pleco, you may try the treatment in your 70 Imperial Gallon (84 U.S, Gallon) tank, starting out at half-strength (1 Tbp. per 10 U.S, Gallons). Reports I've read indicate that Plecos will be fine at 1 Tbs. (Tablespoon) of Epsom Salt per 5 U.S. gallons (and even more), but it's always easier on any fish when introducing a foreign substance to graduate it in increments over time. > > Scale-less fish do not react to Epsom Salt (Magnesium Sulfate) in as a severe manner as they do with the use of Table Salt (Sodium Chloride), as it's the chloride the penetrates the skin with burning/toxic results when using Table Salt, whereas Epsom Salt's sulfate may promote irritation of the skin in higher concentrations. As long as this concentration is kept low enough, it will not irritate him. The 1 Tbs. per 10 U.S. gallons may be all that is necessary to have a positive effect on your Oscar and is were I would start -- or even less, but it's good to know it can be increased and still be safe for the Pleco when kept below the afore-mentioned amount. As with any unknown process in how it may effect a fish, it's best to observe for stress in which case you may do a 1/3 PWC to decrease the concentration should the need arise, although this should not be necessary -- but just to know what can be done if needed. > > Give the 1 Tbs per 10 U.S. gallons (or less) time (at least 12 hours) to work before considering increasing the concentration. Some hobbyists report success with smaller gut-blocked fish with using as little as 1/8 tsp. per U.S. Gallon, but since other reports indicate using as much as double the amount I've indicated, I find these extremes of much less and much more to be excesses (too little or too much) to one direction or the other to effect a treatment. Ray > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "moiragrubb2000" <moiragrubb2000@> wrote: > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "sevenspringss" <sevenspringss@> wrote: > > > > > thanks ray were the measurements for epsom salts in imp gallons or us gallons mo > > > > > Unfortunately, there's no magic wand that goes along with the epsom salt remedy for constipation in fish. It may take as little as 12 hours, or it may take 24 or even more hours -- if it works. As this is but one method of attepting a cure for intestinal blockage, it may not even work in all cases, but it's a well-recognize and old treatment towards effecting a cure. It's not 100% guaranteed, but neither are green peas; although this can be tried whether or not a fish is eating, whereas peas (often promoting bowel movements in fish) has little hope if the fish isn't eating. > > > > > > Percentage of water to take out? I'm guessing you mean as the part of regular PWC (partial water changes) of normal aquarium maintenance. Normally, hobbyists change from 1/4 to 1/3 of their tank weekly, but this also depends on the bioload. You could try 15% to 20% twice a week, testing as you go for the usual ammonia, nitrite and nitrate parameters which we are trying to keep at safe levels when doing these PWC's -- then go from there according to these tests results, either increasing or decreasing as the case may be. If you prefer doing smaller, more frequent PWC's, start off with 10% every other day. Ray > > > > > > > > > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "moiragrubb2000" <moiragrubb2000@> wrote: > > > > > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, sevenspringss@ wrote: > > > > > my problem at the moment is isolating him how long would the epsom salts take to work do you think . the longer he is going without eating the more worried im getting could you also answer my question on how much percent of water safe to take out if i was doing 2 to 3 a week cheers mo > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Mo, At first thought, I too figured this problem may have had something to > > > > > do with the freeze dried food, but that seemed too "obvious," so I was > > > > > looking for possible water quality issues. You're apparently maintaining this > > > > > aquarium properly though, so we come right back to this food. For treating > > > > > with Epsom Salts, try using 1 Tbp per 5 gallons, if it seems he's constipated > > > > > -- and if you can isolate him. Pleco's don't like too much table salt and > > > > > I'm not sure if they take kindly to Epsom Salts either. For treating initial > > > > > stages of some internal issues, some hobbyists increase the amount of Epsom > > > > > Salts slowly to 1 tsp per gallon (or more) -- that's 1 2/3 Tsp per 5 > > > > > gallons -- but the fish must be observed that he doesn't get stressed. Ray > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 43028	From: gambusiaaffinis	Date: 8/31/2009
Subject: Re: Tadpole legs

I was curious becuase I have had American Bullfrog tadpoles that after developing their hind limbs took days to weeks to grow front limbs which would start as buds and then progress into functional legs. I recently got a new tadpole of the same species. This one is developing rapidly (primarily because of the 106F heat wave). Even so, I thought it was incredible that this tadpole with in 24 hours went from having no front limbs and open opercular holes to possessing well developed front legs and no gill openings. Thanks for the info! --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@...> wrote: > > I don't know for certain but I'm pretty sure it takes a LONG time for them > to make the full metamorphosis from tadpole to adult frog. I've had them in > ponds down here before and it would be months and months before any > surviving tadpoles would leave the pond and they'd be BIG, like 6" to 8" > long. Usually, when any frogs or toads would lay eggs in my ponds, I'd > remove as many as I could since I had three mini-ponds (less than 1,000G > each) and hundreds or thousands of tadpoles would be a major bioload burden > for the goldfish. I was curious so I had to do a little Googling and > reading to see what the answer was. > > I'm not sure if this Wikipedia type article is accurate but it says... "... > Tadpole development, which is slow, may take between one and three years for > the transformation from a tadpole to an adult (Bruening 2002). It may even > take up to four years in northern latitudes (Quebec, Canada) (Grzimek et al. > 2004). There are three major changes that take place during the > metamorphosis: > 1.Premetamorphisis which is when the embryo genesis and growth and > development occur, during this time the thyroid gland is absent. > 2.Prometamorphisis is the period in which the concentration of the > endogenous thyroid hormone rises. > 3.Metamorphosis is the period when the tadpole's tail shrinks back into the > frog's body. Other organs also undergo changes such as the liver and the > intestine. The gills are absorbed as well. > After metamorphosis, it takes an additional two years to reach sexual > maturity (Bruening 2002). The adult frog can live up to 13 years, with the > record of an animal in captivity being 16 years. The average bullfrog lives > from seven to nine years in the wild (Bruening 2002)...." > Here's the link to the Wiki article - > http://www.newworldencyclopedia.org/entry/Bullfrog > > Here's a better website with pictures of each stage but no timeline related > to the pictures but the website may have a timeline on another page. They > do have this general timeline at the top of the page but I think this is for > "ALL" frogs in general, not the American Bullfrog, although these pictures > are of the American Bullfrog. > http://seapics.com/feature-subject/amphibians/frog-lifecycle-pictures-001.ht > ml > > This page http://www.bullfrogs.com/Bullfrog-Life-Cycle.html kind of > reiterates that Wiki-type article above. > > This page > http://el.erdc.usace.army.mil/ansrp/ANSIS/html/rana_catesbeiana_shaw_1802_bu > llfrog.htm also has a section about the lifecycle. > > In reviewing all of the above, it seems like the tadpole stage has more to > do with the climate/temperature where the metamorphosis happens a lot faster > in warm climates and much slower in cooler climates. I think this is why > you are having trouble finding an accurate answer to your particular > timeline about the front legs and toes.... as the answer is, "It depends". > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right > side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On > Behalf Of gambusiaaffinis > Sent: Sunday, August 30, 2009 11:20 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Subject: [AquaticLife] Tadpole legs > > Once an American Bullfrog tadpole has developed its hind limbs, how long > does it take for the front legs to fully develop including all four toes? >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 43029	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 8/31/2009
Subject: Re: oscar ill

A fish can go at least a week without eating, sometimes more. There's always a chance he is eating something when you aren't watching which would extend the period. How long has it been since you've seen him eat? If it is an internal bacterial issue, then you should really have a Q-tank so you can start a treatment with antibiotics on just the one fish. There is the possibility that any impacted food has started to decay and be more of a haven for bacterial growth. This often happens to overwintering goldfish/Koi that are fed after the water temperature drops too low (into the low 50'sF) for them to properly digest the food. You should really try the Epsom Salt treatment since it could have results in a 12-24 hour period and if it doesn't then you can look at other treatment options. As a reminder to others reading this thread, this is why it's so good to have a Q-tank, even if it's only a Rubbermaid type storage container (I use the Sterilite clear storage boxes for bigger fish and one of my extra 10G tanks for smaller fish) for when a fish gets sick so they can be observed separately for poop diagnosis as that helps a lot in determining what is wrong. They will also feel "safer" by themselves and you would also be able to know for certain if they are eating. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of moiragrubb2000 Sent: Monday, August 31, 2009 7:46 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: oscar ill --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "sevenspringss" <sevenspringss@...> wrote: > ray i had a bit of bother getting epsom salts as lot of shops dont sell it but got it today and is in tank would appreciate your advice on whether i can treat tank with this in just worried that maybe he got internal bacteria would i be able to put an internal bacteria in tank or would i be better holding fire to see what happens i notice that he seems to be rubbing his belly gently on the driftwood that what it looks like anyway how long can a fish this size go without eating mo > Those measurements using Epsom Salt in amounts of water are in U.S. Gallons. This often works and is sure worth a try. As you have no other large tank to isolate either the Oscar or the Pleco, you may try the treatment in your 70 Imperial Gallon (84 U.S, Gallon) tank, starting out at half-strength (1 Tbp. per 10 U.S, Gallons). Reports I've read indicate that Plecos will be fine at 1 Tbs. (Tablespoon) of Epsom Salt per 5 U.S. gallons (and even more), but it's always easier on any fish when introducing a foreign substance to graduate it in increments over time. > > Scale-less fish do not react to Epsom Salt (Magnesium Sulfate) in as a severe manner as they do with the use of Table Salt (Sodium Chloride), as it's the chloride the penetrates the skin with burning/toxic results when using Table Salt, whereas Epsom Salt's sulfate may promote irritation of the skin in higher concentrations. As long as this concentration is kept low enough, it will not irritate him. The 1 Tbs. per 10 U.S. gallons may be all that is necessary to have a positive effect on your Oscar and is were I would start -- or even less, but it's good to know it can be increased and still be safe for the Pleco when kept below the afore-mentioned amount. As with any unknown process in how it may effect a fish, it's best to observe for stress in which case you may do a 1/3 PWC to decrease the concentration should the need arise, although this should not be necessary -- but just to know what can be done if needed. > > Give the 1 Tbs per 10 U.S. gallons (or less) time (at least 12 hours) > to work before considering increasing the concentration. Some > hobbyists report success with smaller gut-blocked fish with using as > little as 1/8 tsp. per U.S. Gallon, but since other reports indicate > using as much as double the amount I've indicated, I find these > extremes of much less and much more to be excesses (too little or too > much) to one direction or the other to effect a treatment. Ray > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "moiragrubb2000" <moiragrubb2000@> wrote: > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "sevenspringss" <sevenspringss@> wrote: > > > > > thanks ray were the measurements for epsom salts in imp gallons or > > us gallons mo > > > > > Unfortunately, there's no magic wand that goes along with the epsom salt remedy for constipation in fish. It may take as little as 12 hours, or it may take 24 or even more hours -- if it works. As this is but one method of attepting a cure for intestinal blockage, it may not even work in all cases, but it's a well-recognize and old treatment towards effecting a cure. It's not 100% guaranteed, but neither are green peas; although this can be tried whether or not a fish is eating, whereas peas (often promoting bowel movements in fish) has little hope if the fish isn't eating. > > > > > > Percentage of water to take out? I'm guessing you mean as the > > > part of regular PWC (partial water changes) of normal aquarium > > > maintenance. Normally, hobbyists change from 1/4 to 1/3 of their > > > tank weekly, but this also depends on the bioload. You could try > > > 15% to 20% twice a week, testing as you go for the usual ammonia, > > > nitrite and nitrate parameters which we are trying to keep at safe > > > levels when doing these PWC's -- then go from there according to > > > these tests results, either increasing or decreasing as the case > > > may be. If you prefer doing smaller, more frequent PWC's, start > > > off with 10% every other day. Ray > > > > > > > > > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "moiragrubb2000" <moiragrubb2000@> wrote: > > > > > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, sevenspringss@ wrote: > > > > > my problem at the moment is isolating him how long would the > > > > > epsom salts take to work do you think . the longer he is going > > > > > without eating the more worried im getting could you also > > > > > answer my question on how much percent of water safe to take > > > > > out if i was doing 2 to 3 a week cheers mo > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Mo, At first thought, I too figured this problem may have had > > > > > something to do with the freeze dried food, but that seemed > > > > > too "obvious," so I was looking for possible water quality > > > > > issues. You're apparently maintaining this aquarium properly > > > > > though, so we come right back to this food. For treating with > > > > > Epsom Salts, try using 1 Tbp per 5 gallons, if it seems he's > > > > > constipated > > > > > -- and if you can isolate him. Pleco's don't like too much > > > > > table salt and I'm not sure if they take kindly to Epsom Salts > > > > > either. For treating initial stages of some internal issues, > > > > > some hobbyists increase the amount of Epsom Salts slowly to 1 > > > > > tsp per gallon (or more) -- that's 1 2/3 Tsp per 5 gallons -- > > > > > but the fish must be observed that he doesn't get stressed. > > > > > Ray > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ------------------------------------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the home page. Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com to receive the digest, which includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com for the No E-Mail option where you will still be able to read messages on the group and post replies. Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com to receive individual e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 43030	From: fishlover_james_s	Date: 8/31/2009
Subject: Re: API's Nitrate Test Kit IMPORTANT INFORMATION

Thanks for the information as I use this test kit..... I will perform the test twice the next time I test and verify if this is real. This makes me wonder if the other tests are accurate, if one follows the card's directions??????? I too always shake my bottles, but not always for the full length of time. James S. --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@...> wrote: > > http://www.aquaworldaquarium.com/Articles/TonyGriffitts/Water_Changes.htm > has the following TIP listed on the page. I think this is pretty good > information for users of the API Master Test Kit and probably other kits > that use liquid reagents. I've always shaken my bottles, even if the > instructions do not say so but I probably am also guilty of not shaking the > #2 bottle for as long as this tip suggests.... > > Tip - Word of Warning > > Aquarium Pharmaceuticals liquid nitrate test kit is a very popular test kit, > because it is very easy to use. The instructions that come with the test > kit say to shake bottle #2 30 seconds. If you shake bottle #2 only 30 > seconds you are likely to get a false low nitrate reading. I recommend you > shake the bottle #2 for two minutes before adding it to the test sample to > get a true reading of your nitrate content. I have seen a lot of reef > hobbyist have problems with their tank because their nitrate was in reality > off the chart when their test (following the instructions) showed near 0 > ppm. > (END SNIP) > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right > side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 43031	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 8/31/2009
Subject: Re: API's Nitrate Test Kit IMPORTANT INFORMATION

Well, the Nitrate bottle #2 is the main one that has to be shaken for OVER 30 seconds, better for over a minute as it has been shown to separate more when sitting around. The other solutions only require a little shaking but I usually shake them all for 15-30 seconds even if they do not instruct it. If you've been under-shaking Nitrate bottle #2 for several tests, then you probably should replace it since you were probably using more of one of the other compounds that make up that reagent so the remaining levels are out of proportion to give you accurate tests. You could try a friends (or the LFS's kit) to double check what yours is saying and if yours is still accurate, then you may not want to replace the Nitrate kit but a separate Nitrate Test Kit from API was under $5.00 the last time I bought the separate kit. It's also important to shake the final mixed solutions for the proper time to insure proper test results. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of fishlover_james_s Sent: Monday, August 31, 2009 8:55 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: API's Nitrate Test Kit IMPORTANT INFORMATION Thanks for the information as I use this test kit..... I will perform the test twice the next time I test and verify if this is real. This makes me wonder if the other tests are accurate, if one follows the card's directions??????? I too always shake my bottles, but not always for the full length of time. James S. --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@...> wrote: > > http://www.aquaworldaquarium.com/Articles/TonyGriffitts/Water_Changes. > htm has the following TIP listed on the page. I think this is pretty > good information for users of the API Master Test Kit and probably > other kits that use liquid reagents. I've always shaken my bottles, > even if the instructions do not say so but I probably am also guilty > of not shaking the > #2 bottle for as long as this tip suggests.... > > Tip - Word of Warning > > Aquarium Pharmaceuticals liquid nitrate test kit is a very popular > test kit, because it is very easy to use. The instructions that come > with the test kit say to shake bottle #2 30 seconds. If you shake > bottle #2 only 30 seconds you are likely to get a false low nitrate > reading. I recommend you shake the bottle #2 for two minutes before > adding it to the test sample to get a true reading of your nitrate > content. I have seen a lot of reef hobbyist have problems with their > tank because their nitrate was in reality off the chart when their > test (following the instructions) showed near 0 ppm. > (END SNIP) > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles > referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically > under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) > ------------------------------------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the home page. Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com to receive the digest, which includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com for the No E-Mail option where you will still be able to read messages on the group and post replies. Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com to receive individual e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 43032	From: sevenspringss	Date: 9/1/2009
Subject: Re: oscar ill

Any supermarket or pharmacy has epsom salt, so you should have been able to find it easily. Not all fish stores have it as it's not necessarily an aquarium hobby related item. We only recommend it knowing that it usually works as well on fish as a laxative as well as it works on humans (in the form of Milk of Magnesia). He may be rubbing his belly in attempts to dislodge the blockage. While he may have internal bacteria or parasites, which remains yet unseen, an attempt at treating him for intestinal blockage should see improvement within 12 to 24 hours if that's the problem and should be started ASAP if only to determine whether further steps may be needed for treating possible internal pathogen issues. A fish of 14" can go without eating for a month (six weeks, but that would be stretching it to the point of probable no return), but then you did say that he hasn't eaten for a little while now already. If it comes down to it, internal pathogen medications should be done in isolation. Consider a cheap container of any type (doesn't need to be an "aquarium") large enough to house either him or the other fish to separate him for treating if it becomes necessary. At such possible time, you will most probably need another heater for this container, depending on your ambient temperatures. Ray --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "moiragrubb2000" <moiragrubb2000@...> wrote: > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "sevenspringss" <sevenspringss@> wrote: > > > ray i had a bit of bother getting epsom salts as lot of shops dont sell it but got it today and is in tank would appreciate your advice on whether i can treat tank with this in just worried that maybe he got internal bacteria would i be able to put an internal bacteria in tank or would i be better holding fire to see what happens i notice that he seems to be rubbing his belly gently on the driftwood that what it looks like anyway how long can a fish this size go without eating mo > > > Those measurements using Epsom Salt in amounts of water are in U.S. Gallons. This often works and is sure worth a try. As you have no other large tank to isolate either the Oscar or the Pleco, you may try the treatment in your 70 Imperial Gallon (84 U.S, Gallon) tank, starting out at half-strength (1 Tbp. per 10 U.S, Gallons). Reports I've read indicate that Plecos will be fine at 1 Tbs. (Tablespoon) of Epsom Salt per 5 U.S. gallons (and even more), but it's always easier on any fish when introducing a foreign substance to graduate it in increments over time. > > > > Scale-less fish do not react to Epsom Salt (Magnesium Sulfate) in as a severe manner as they do with the use of Table Salt (Sodium Chloride), as it's the chloride the penetrates the skin with burning/toxic results when using Table Salt, whereas Epsom Salt's sulfate may promote irritation of the skin in higher concentrations. As long as this concentration is kept low enough, it will not irritate him. The 1 Tbs. per 10 U.S. gallons may be all that is necessary to have a positive effect on your Oscar and is were I would start -- or even less, but it's good to know it can be increased and still be safe for the Pleco when kept below the afore-mentioned amount. As with any unknown process in how it may effect a fish, it's best to observe for stress in which case you may do a 1/3 PWC to decrease the concentration should the need arise, although this should not be necessary -- but just to know what can be done if needed. > > > > Give the 1 Tbs per 10 U.S. gallons (or less) time (at least 12 hours) to work before considering increasing the concentration. Some hobbyists report success with smaller gut-blocked fish with using as little as 1/8 tsp. per U.S. Gallon, but since other reports indicate using as much as double the amount I've indicated, I find these extremes of much less and much more to be excesses (too little or too much) to one direction or the other to effect a treatment. Ray > > > > > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "moiragrubb2000" <moiragrubb2000@> wrote: > > > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "sevenspringss" <sevenspringss@> wrote: > > > > > > > thanks ray were the measurements for epsom salts in imp gallons or us gallons mo > > > > > > > Unfortunately, there's no magic wand that goes along with the epsom salt remedy for constipation in fish. It may take as little as 12 hours, or it may take 24 or even more hours -- if it works. As this is but one method of attepting a cure for intestinal blockage, it may not even work in all cases, but it's a well-recognize and old treatment towards effecting a cure. It's not 100% guaranteed, but neither are green peas; although this can be tried whether or not a fish is eating, whereas peas (often promoting bowel movements in fish) has little hope if the fish isn't eating. > > > > > > > > Percentage of water to take out? I'm guessing you mean as the part of regular PWC (partial water changes) of normal aquarium maintenance. Normally, hobbyists change from 1/4 to 1/3 of their tank weekly, but this also depends on the bioload. You could try 15% to 20% twice a week, testing as you go for the usual ammonia, nitrite and nitrate parameters which we are trying to keep at safe levels when doing these PWC's -- then go from there according to these tests results, either increasing or decreasing as the case may be. If you prefer doing smaller, more frequent PWC's, start off with 10% every other day. Ray > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "moiragrubb2000" <moiragrubb2000@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, sevenspringss@ wrote: > > > > > > my problem at the moment is isolating him how long would the epsom salts take to work do you think . the longer he is going without eating the more worried im getting could you also answer my question on how much percent of water safe to take out if i was doing 2 to 3 a week cheers mo > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Mo, At first thought, I too figured this problem may have had something to > > > > > > do with the freeze dried food, but that seemed too "obvious," so I was > > > > > > looking for possible water quality issues. You're apparently maintaining this > > > > > > aquarium properly though, so we come right back to this food. For treating > > > > > > with Epsom Salts, try using 1 Tbp per 5 gallons, if it seems he's constipated > > > > > > -- and if you can isolate him. Pleco's don't like too much table salt and > > > > > > I'm not sure if they take kindly to Epsom Salts either. For treating initial > > > > > > stages of some internal issues, some hobbyists increase the amount of Epsom > > > > > > Salts slowly to 1 tsp per gallon (or more) -- that's 1 2/3 Tsp per 5 > > > > > > gallons -- but the fish must be observed that he doesn't get stressed. Ray > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 43033	From: moiragrubb2000	Date: 9/1/2009
Subject: Re: oscar ill

--- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "sevenspringss" <sevenspringss@...> wrote: > i have already started treatment and have upped the dosage today believe it or not none of my local supermarkets sold this and tried 4 pharmacys before finding this at s small chemist unbelievable i was going to set up aclear storage box i had but wasnt as big as i thought so sent hubby to get the biggest he can find and going to set it up today i have got spare heater and filter refering bacck to my prev post what water would you recommend i use mo > Any supermarket or pharmacy has epsom salt, so you should have been able to find it easily. Not all fish stores have it as it's not necessarily an aquarium hobby related item. We only recommend it knowing that it usually works as well on fish as a laxative as well as it works on humans (in the form of Milk of Magnesia). > > He may be rubbing his belly in attempts to dislodge the blockage. While he may have internal bacteria or parasites, which remains yet unseen, an attempt at treating him for intestinal blockage should see improvement within 12 to 24 hours if that's the problem and should be started ASAP if only to determine whether further steps may be needed for treating possible internal pathogen issues. A fish of 14" can go without eating for a month (six weeks, but that would be stretching it to the point of probable no return), but then you did say that he hasn't eaten for a little while now already. > > If it comes down to it, internal pathogen medications should be done in isolation. Consider a cheap container of any type (doesn't need to be an "aquarium") large enough to house either him or the other fish to separate him for treating if it becomes necessary. At such possible time, you will most probably need another heater for this container, depending on your ambient temperatures. Ray > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "moiragrubb2000" <moiragrubb2000@> wrote: > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "sevenspringss" <sevenspringss@> wrote: > > > > > ray i had a bit of bother getting epsom salts as lot of shops dont sell it but got it today and is in tank would appreciate your advice on whether i can treat tank with this in just worried that maybe he got internal bacteria would i be able to put an internal bacteria in tank or would i be better holding fire to see what happens i notice that he seems to be rubbing his belly gently on the driftwood that what it looks like anyway how long can a fish this size go without eating mo > > > > > Those measurements using Epsom Salt in amounts of water are in U.S. Gallons. This often works and is sure worth a try. As you have no other large tank to isolate either the Oscar or the Pleco, you may try the treatment in your 70 Imperial Gallon (84 U.S, Gallon) tank, starting out at half-strength (1 Tbp. per 10 U.S, Gallons). Reports I've read indicate that Plecos will be fine at 1 Tbs. (Tablespoon) of Epsom Salt per 5 U.S. gallons (and even more), but it's always easier on any fish when introducing a foreign substance to graduate it in increments over time. > > > > > > Scale-less fish do not react to Epsom Salt (Magnesium Sulfate) in as a severe manner as they do with the use of Table Salt (Sodium Chloride), as it's the chloride the penetrates the skin with burning/toxic results when using Table Salt, whereas Epsom Salt's sulfate may promote irritation of the skin in higher concentrations. As long as this concentration is kept low enough, it will not irritate him. The 1 Tbs. per 10 U.S. gallons may be all that is necessary to have a positive effect on your Oscar and is were I would start -- or even less, but it's good to know it can be increased and still be safe for the Pleco when kept below the afore-mentioned amount. As with any unknown process in how it may effect a fish, it's best to observe for stress in which case you may do a 1/3 PWC to decrease the concentration should the need arise, although this should not be necessary -- but just to know what can be done if needed. > > > > > > Give the 1 Tbs per 10 U.S. gallons (or less) time (at least 12 hours) to work before considering increasing the concentration. Some hobbyists report success with smaller gut-blocked fish with using as little as 1/8 tsp. per U.S. Gallon, but since other reports indicate using as much as double the amount I've indicated, I find these extremes of much less and much more to be excesses (too little or too much) to one direction or the other to effect a treatment. Ray > > > > > > > > > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "moiragrubb2000" <moiragrubb2000@> wrote: > > > > > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "sevenspringss" <sevenspringss@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > thanks ray were the measurements for epsom salts in imp gallons or us gallons mo > > > > > > > > > Unfortunately, there's no magic wand that goes along with the epsom salt remedy for constipation in fish. It may take as little as 12 hours, or it may take 24 or even more hours -- if it works. As this is but one method of attepting a cure for intestinal blockage, it may not even work in all cases, but it's a well-recognize and old treatment towards effecting a cure. It's not 100% guaranteed, but neither are green peas; although this can be tried whether or not a fish is eating, whereas peas (often promoting bowel movements in fish) has little hope if the fish isn't eating. > > > > > > > > > > Percentage of water to take out? I'm guessing you mean as the part of regular PWC (partial water changes) of normal aquarium maintenance. Normally, hobbyists change from 1/4 to 1/3 of their tank weekly, but this also depends on the bioload. You could try 15% to 20% twice a week, testing as you go for the usual ammonia, nitrite and nitrate parameters which we are trying to keep at safe levels when doing these PWC's -- then go from there according to these tests results, either increasing or decreasing as the case may be. If you prefer doing smaller, more frequent PWC's, start off with 10% every other day. Ray > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "moiragrubb2000" <moiragrubb2000@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, sevenspringss@ wrote: > > > > > > > my problem at the moment is isolating him how long would the epsom salts take to work do you think . the longer he is going without eating the more worried im getting could you also answer my question on how much percent of water safe to take out if i was doing 2 to 3 a week cheers mo > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Mo, At first thought, I too figured this problem may have had something to > > > > > > > do with the freeze dried food, but that seemed too "obvious," so I was > > > > > > > looking for possible water quality issues. You're apparently maintaining this > > > > > > > aquarium properly though, so we come right back to this food. For treating > > > > > > > with Epsom Salts, try using 1 Tbp per 5 gallons, if it seems he's constipated > > > > > > > -- and if you can isolate him. Pleco's don't like too much table salt and > > > > > > > I'm not sure if they take kindly to Epsom Salts either. For treating initial > > > > > > > stages of some internal issues, some hobbyists increase the amount of Epsom > > > > > > > Salts slowly to 1 tsp per gallon (or more) -- that's 1 2/3 Tsp per 5 > > > > > > > gallons -- but the fish must be observed that he doesn't get stressed. Ray > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 43034	From: moiragrubb2000	Date: 9/1/2009
Subject: Re: oscar ill

--- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@...> wrote: > lenny thats what i was thinking having 2 ponds im aware of the bacterial issue i do have a 10 gallon hospital tank but never thought about using storage container been wracking my braihs on what i can use and the answer staring me in the face lol what ill do is set that up today in readiness would i use water out of oscar tank or some out of another tank .i havent seen him eat in about a week like you say its possible he is eating when im not looking .im going to up the epsom salt today then ill give it another 12 hours and see whats happening does the epsom salt have any effect on your filters was assuming not sinse nobody mentioned it . just for future ref could you use epsom salt along side medication or would you do a water change to dilute it hopefuuly i wouldnt ever need to use it again but usefull to know thanks . mo > A fish can go at least a week without eating, sometimes more. There's > always a chance he is eating something when you aren't watching which would > extend the period. How long has it been since you've seen him eat? > > If it is an internal bacterial issue, then you should really have a Q-tank > so you can start a treatment with antibiotics on just the one fish. There > is the possibility that any impacted food has started to decay and be more > of a haven for bacterial growth. This often happens to overwintering > goldfish/Koi that are fed after the water temperature drops too low (into > the low 50'sF) for them to properly digest the food. > > You should really try the Epsom Salt treatment since it could have results > in a 12-24 hour period and if it doesn't then you can look at other > treatment options. > > As a reminder to others reading this thread, this is why it's so good to > have a Q-tank, even if it's only a Rubbermaid type storage container (I use > the Sterilite clear storage boxes for bigger fish and one of my extra 10G > tanks for smaller fish) for when a fish gets sick so they can be observed > separately for poop diagnosis as that helps a lot in determining what is > wrong. They will also feel "safer" by themselves and you would also be able > to know for certain if they are eating. > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right > side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) > > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On > Behalf Of moiragrubb2000 > Sent: Monday, August 31, 2009 7:46 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: oscar ill > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "sevenspringss" <sevenspringss@> > wrote: > > > ray i had a bit of bother getting epsom salts as lot of shops dont sell it > but got it today and is in tank would appreciate your advice on whether i > can treat tank with this in just worried that maybe he got internal bacteria > would i be able to put an internal bacteria in tank or would i be better > holding fire to see what happens i notice that he seems to be rubbing his > belly gently on the driftwood that what it looks like anyway how long can a > fish this size go without eating mo > > > Those measurements using Epsom Salt in amounts of water are in U.S. > Gallons. This often works and is sure worth a try. As you have no other > large tank to isolate either the Oscar or the Pleco, you may try the > treatment in your 70 Imperial Gallon (84 U.S, Gallon) tank, starting out at > half-strength (1 Tbp. per 10 U.S, Gallons). Reports I've read indicate that > Plecos will be fine at 1 Tbs. (Tablespoon) of Epsom Salt per 5 U.S. gallons > (and even more), but it's always easier on any fish when introducing a > foreign substance to graduate it in increments over time. > > > > Scale-less fish do not react to Epsom Salt (Magnesium Sulfate) in as a > severe manner as they do with the use of Table Salt (Sodium Chloride), as > it's the chloride the penetrates the skin with burning/toxic results when > using Table Salt, whereas Epsom Salt's sulfate may promote irritation of the > skin in higher concentrations. As long as this concentration is kept low > enough, it will not irritate him. The 1 Tbs. per 10 U.S. gallons may be all > that is necessary to have a positive effect on your Oscar and is were I > would start -- or even less, but it's good to know it can be increased and > still be safe for the Pleco when kept below the afore-mentioned amount. As > with any unknown process in how it may effect a fish, it's best to observe > for stress in which case you may do a 1/3 PWC to decrease the concentration > should the need arise, although this should not be necessary -- but just to > know what can be done if needed. > > > > Give the 1 Tbs per 10 U.S. gallons (or less) time (at least 12 hours) > > to work before considering increasing the concentration. Some > > hobbyists report success with smaller gut-blocked fish with using as > > little as 1/8 tsp. per U.S. Gallon, but since other reports indicate > > using as much as double the amount I've indicated, I find these > > extremes of much less and much more to be excesses (too little or too > > much) to one direction or the other to effect a treatment. Ray > > > > > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "moiragrubb2000" <moiragrubb2000@> > wrote: > > > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "sevenspringss" <sevenspringss@> > wrote: > > > > > > > thanks ray were the measurements for epsom salts in imp gallons or > > > us gallons mo > > > > > > > Unfortunately, there's no magic wand that goes along with the epsom > salt remedy for constipation in fish. It may take as little as 12 hours, or > it may take 24 or even more hours -- if it works. As this is but one method > of attepting a cure for intestinal blockage, it may not even work in all > cases, but it's a well-recognize and old treatment towards effecting a cure. > It's not 100% guaranteed, but neither are green peas; although this can be > tried whether or not a fish is eating, whereas peas (often promoting bowel > movements in fish) has little hope if the fish isn't eating. > > > > > > > > Percentage of water to take out? I'm guessing you mean as the > > > > part of regular PWC (partial water changes) of normal aquarium > > > > maintenance. Normally, hobbyists change from 1/4 to 1/3 of their > > > > tank weekly, but this also depends on the bioload. You could try > > > > 15% to 20% twice a week, testing as you go for the usual ammonia, > > > > nitrite and nitrate parameters which we are trying to keep at safe > > > > levels when doing these PWC's -- then go from there according to > > > > these tests results, either increasing or decreasing as the case > > > > may be. If you prefer doing smaller, more frequent PWC's, start > > > > off with 10% every other day. Ray > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "moiragrubb2000" <moiragrubb2000@> > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, sevenspringss@ wrote: > > > > > > my problem at the moment is isolating him how long would the > > > > > > epsom salts take to work do you think . the longer he is going > > > > > > without eating the more worried im getting could you also > > > > > > answer my question on how much percent of water safe to take > > > > > > out if i was doing 2 to 3 a week cheers mo > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Mo, At first thought, I too figured this problem may have had > > > > > > something to do with the freeze dried food, but that seemed > > > > > > too "obvious," so I was looking for possible water quality > > > > > > issues. You're apparently maintaining this aquarium properly > > > > > > though, so we come right back to this food. For treating with > > > > > > Epsom Salts, try using 1 Tbp per 5 gallons, if it seems he's > > > > > > constipated > > > > > > -- and if you can isolate him. Pleco's don't like too much > > > > > > table salt and I'm not sure if they take kindly to Epsom Salts > > > > > > either. For treating initial stages of some internal issues, > > > > > > some hobbyists increase the amount of Epsom Salts slowly to 1 > > > > > > tsp per gallon (or more) -- that's 1 2/3 Tsp per 5 gallons -- > > > > > > but the fish must be observed that he doesn't get stressed. > > > > > > Ray > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ------------------------------------ > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 43035	From: sevenspringss	Date: 9/1/2009
Subject: Re: oscar ill

I've approved your last two messages in the order that you sent them, one at 4:25 AM EDT and the other at 6:35 AM EDT but I see Yahoo chose to post them in the reverse order -- So I'll address them in their present order. Too bad about the most obvious stores for carrying this product not having it, but at least you found it. Glad to see you've already started treatment with it. Also nice to see that you're prepared with a spare heater and filter. If this filter is not cycled, just take some filter media from your established filter and stuff it into this one. Fill the container with 1/2 water from his tank and 1/2 water from the tap (treated); well, don't quite "fill" it, unless you (preferably) have a clear top for it. Leave at least 4" (5", if the container is deep enough) of space to help ensure he doesn't jump out. Ray --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "moiragrubb2000" <moiragrubb2000@...> wrote: > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "sevenspringss" <sevenspringss@> wrote: > > > i have already started treatment and have upped the dosage today believe it or not none of my local supermarkets sold this and tried 4 pharmacys before finding this at s small chemist unbelievable i was going to set up aclear storage box i had but wasnt as big as i thought so sent hubby to get the biggest he can find and going to set it up today i have got spare heater and filter refering bacck to my prev post what water would you recommend i use mo > > > Any supermarket or pharmacy has epsom salt, so you should have been able to find it easily. Not all fish stores have it as it's not necessarily an aquarium hobby related item. We only recommend it knowing that it usually works as well on fish as a laxative as well as it works on humans (in the form of Milk of Magnesia). > > > > He may be rubbing his belly in attempts to dislodge the blockage. While he may have internal bacteria or parasites, which remains yet unseen, an attempt at treating him for intestinal blockage should see improvement within 12 to 24 hours if that's the problem and should be started ASAP if only to determine whether further steps may be needed for treating possible internal pathogen issues. A fish of 14" can go without eating for a month (six weeks, but that would be stretching it to the point of probable no return), but then you did say that he hasn't eaten for a little while now already. > > > > If it comes down to it, internal pathogen medications should be done in isolation. Consider a cheap container of any type (doesn't need to be an "aquarium") large enough to house either him or the other fish to separate him for treating if it becomes necessary. At such possible time, you will most probably need another heater for this container, depending on your ambient temperatures. Ray > > > > > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "moiragrubb2000" <moiragrubb2000@> wrote: > > > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "sevenspringss" <sevenspringss@> wrote: > > > > > > > ray i had a bit of bother getting epsom salts as lot of shops dont sell it but got it today and is in tank would appreciate your advice on whether i can treat tank with this in just worried that maybe he got internal bacteria would i be able to put an internal bacteria in tank or would i be better holding fire to see what happens i notice that he seems to be rubbing his belly gently on the driftwood that what it looks like anyway how long can a fish this size go without eating mo > > > > > > > Those measurements using Epsom Salt in amounts of water are in U.S. Gallons. This often works and is sure worth a try. As you have no other large tank to isolate either the Oscar or the Pleco, you may try the treatment in your 70 Imperial Gallon (84 U.S, Gallon) tank, starting out at half-strength (1 Tbp. per 10 U.S, Gallons). Reports I've read indicate that Plecos will be fine at 1 Tbs. (Tablespoon) of Epsom Salt per 5 U.S. gallons (and even more), but it's always easier on any fish when introducing a foreign substance to graduate it in increments over time. > > > > > > > > Scale-less fish do not react to Epsom Salt (Magnesium Sulfate) in as a severe manner as they do with the use of Table Salt (Sodium Chloride), as it's the chloride the penetrates the skin with burning/toxic results when using Table Salt, whereas Epsom Salt's sulfate may promote irritation of the skin in higher concentrations. As long as this concentration is kept low enough, it will not irritate him. The 1 Tbs. per 10 U.S. gallons may be all that is necessary to have a positive effect on your Oscar and is were I would start -- or even less, but it's good to know it can be increased and still be safe for the Pleco when kept below the afore-mentioned amount. As with any unknown process in how it may effect a fish, it's best to observe for stress in which case you may do a 1/3 PWC to decrease the concentration should the need arise, although this should not be necessary -- but just to know what can be done if needed. > > > > > > > > Give the 1 Tbs per 10 U.S. gallons (or less) time (at least 12 hours) to work before considering increasing the concentration. Some hobbyists report success with smaller gut-blocked fish with using as little as 1/8 tsp. per U.S. Gallon, but since other reports indicate using as much as double the amount I've indicated, I find these extremes of much less and much more to be excesses (too little or too much) to one direction or the other to effect a treatment. Ray > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "moiragrubb2000" <moiragrubb2000@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "sevenspringss" <sevenspringss@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > thanks ray were the measurements for epsom salts in imp gallons or us gallons mo > > > > > > > > > > > Unfortunately, there's no magic wand that goes along with the epsom salt remedy for constipation in fish. It may take as little as 12 hours, or it may take 24 or even more hours -- if it works. As this is but one method of attepting a cure for intestinal blockage, it may not even work in all cases, but it's a well-recognize and old treatment towards effecting a cure. It's not 100% guaranteed, but neither are green peas; although this can be tried whether or not a fish is eating, whereas peas (often promoting bowel movements in fish) has little hope if the fish isn't eating. > > > > > > > > > > > > Percentage of water to take out? I'm guessing you mean as the part of regular PWC (partial water changes) of normal aquarium maintenance. Normally, hobbyists change from 1/4 to 1/3 of their tank weekly, but this also depends on the bioload. You could try 15% to 20% twice a week, testing as you go for the usual ammonia, nitrite and nitrate parameters which we are trying to keep at safe levels when doing these PWC's -- then go from there according to these tests results, either increasing or decreasing as the case may be. If you prefer doing smaller, more frequent PWC's, start off with 10% every other day. Ray > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "moiragrubb2000" <moiragrubb2000@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, sevenspringss@ wrote: > > > > > > > > my problem at the moment is isolating him how long would the epsom salts take to work do you think . the longer he is going without eating the more worried im getting could you also answer my question on how much percent of water safe to take out if i was doing 2 to 3 a week cheers mo > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Mo, At first thought, I too figured this problem may have had something to > > > > > > > > do with the freeze dried food, but that seemed too "obvious," so I was > > > > > > > > looking for possible water quality issues. You're apparently maintaining this > > > > > > > > aquarium properly though, so we come right back to this food. For treating > > > > > > > > with Epsom Salts, try using 1 Tbp per 5 gallons, if it seems he's constipated > > > > > > > > -- and if you can isolate him. Pleco's don't like too much table salt and > > > > > > > > I'm not sure if they take kindly to Epsom Salts either. For treating initial > > > > > > > > stages of some internal issues, some hobbyists increase the amount of Epsom > > > > > > > > Salts slowly to 1 tsp per gallon (or more) -- that's 1 2/3 Tsp per 5 > > > > > > > > gallons -- but the fish must be observed that he doesn't get stressed. Ray > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 43036	From: sevenspringss	Date: 9/1/2009
Subject: Re: oscar ill

Could just be that by now, if there is an intestinal blockage, that there may be a bacterial issue. Then too, as I was starting to get at originally when asking about water parameters, there is the possibility of him having internal parasites as I touched on in my first message this morning. But let's see how he does with the epsom salt first. As long as food is present (for the other fish), there remains the possibility of his eating a bit when you don't notice it, but I actually tend to doubt it in the condition you describe. The epsom salt will work to harden the water, but should not act to have an effect on the filter as far as I'm aware. For possible treatment with an antibiotic or an antiparasite medication, it would be best to do a PWC to dilute most of the epsom salt, but a small amount shouldn't be detrimental in any way. I wasn't aware that you have another tank. In this case, IF the water parameters match that of the Oscar's tank, it would be allowable to use this water (not having any epsom salt) as 1/2 that of the storage container and 1/2 treated tap water since you haven't added that much epsom salt to his tank yet. I would not advise that though if you had already added additional epsom salts, as you'll be doing in another 12 hours, as that move will increase the osmotic pressure even more -- which we always try to keep at a minimum. Using his present water though, from his tank, having some epsom salt now in it would still be no problem if medicating in the container, as it will be diluted to half anyway when using 1/2 tap water. Ray --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "moiragrubb2000" <moiragrubb2000@...> wrote: > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@> wrote: > > > lenny thats what i was thinking having 2 ponds im aware of the bacterial issue i do have a 10 gallon hospital tank but never thought about using storage container been wracking my braihs on what i can use and the answer staring me in the face lol what ill do is set that up today in readiness would i use water out of oscar tank or some out of another tank .i havent seen him eat in about a week like you say its possible he is eating when im not looking .im going to up the epsom salt today then ill give it another 12 hours and see whats happening does the epsom salt have any effect on your filters was assuming not sinse nobody mentioned it . just for future ref could you use epsom salt along side medication or would you do a water change to dilute it hopefuuly i wouldnt ever need to use it again but usefull to know thanks . > mo > > A fish can go at least a week without eating, sometimes more. There's > > always a chance he is eating something when you aren't watching which would > > extend the period. How long has it been since you've seen him eat? > > > > If it is an internal bacterial issue, then you should really have a Q-tank > > so you can start a treatment with antibiotics on just the one fish. There > > is the possibility that any impacted food has started to decay and be more > > of a haven for bacterial growth. This often happens to overwintering > > goldfish/Koi that are fed after the water temperature drops too low (into > > the low 50'sF) for them to properly digest the food. > > > > You should really try the Epsom Salt treatment since it could have results > > in a 12-24 hour period and if it doesn't then you can look at other > > treatment options. > > > > As a reminder to others reading this thread, this is why it's so good to > > have a Q-tank, even if it's only a Rubbermaid type storage container (I use > > the Sterilite clear storage boxes for bigger fish and one of my extra 10G > > tanks for smaller fish) for when a fish gets sick so they can be observed > > separately for poop diagnosis as that helps a lot in determining what is > > wrong. They will also feel "safer" by themselves and you would also be able > > to know for certain if they are eating. > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > > (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right > > side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On > > Behalf Of moiragrubb2000 > > Sent: Monday, August 31, 2009 7:46 PM > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: oscar ill > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "sevenspringss" <sevenspringss@> > > wrote: > > > > > ray i had a bit of bother getting epsom salts as lot of shops dont sell it > > but got it today and is in tank would appreciate your advice on whether i > > can treat tank with this in just worried that maybe he got internal bacteria > > would i be able to put an internal bacteria in tank or would i be better > > holding fire to see what happens i notice that he seems to be rubbing his > > belly gently on the driftwood that what it looks like anyway how long can a > > fish this size go without eating mo > > > > > Those measurements using Epsom Salt in amounts of water are in U.S. > > Gallons. This often works and is sure worth a try. As you have no other > > large tank to isolate either the Oscar or the Pleco, you may try the > > treatment in your 70 Imperial Gallon (84 U.S, Gallon) tank, starting out at > > half-strength (1 Tbp. per 10 U.S, Gallons). Reports I've read indicate that > > Plecos will be fine at 1 Tbs. (Tablespoon) of Epsom Salt per 5 U.S. gallons > > (and even more), but it's always easier on any fish when introducing a > > foreign substance to graduate it in increments over time. > > > > > > Scale-less fish do not react to Epsom Salt (Magnesium Sulfate) in as a > > severe manner as they do with the use of Table Salt (Sodium Chloride), as > > it's the chloride the penetrates the skin with burning/toxic results when > > using Table Salt, whereas Epsom Salt's sulfate may promote irritation of the > > skin in higher concentrations. As long as this concentration is kept low > > enough, it will not irritate him. The 1 Tbs. per 10 U.S. gallons may be all > > that is necessary to have a positive effect on your Oscar and is were I > > would start -- or even less, but it's good to know it can be increased and > > still be safe for the Pleco when kept below the afore-mentioned amount. As > > with any unknown process in how it may effect a fish, it's best to observe > > for stress in which case you may do a 1/3 PWC to decrease the concentration > > should the need arise, although this should not be necessary -- but just to > > know what can be done if needed. > > > > > > Give the 1 Tbs per 10 U.S. gallons (or less) time (at least 12 hours) > > > to work before considering increasing the concentration. Some > > > hobbyists report success with smaller gut-blocked fish with using as > > > little as 1/8 tsp. per U.S. Gallon, but since other reports indicate > > > using as much as double the amount I've indicated, I find these > > > extremes of much less and much more to be excesses (too little or too > > > much) to one direction or the other to effect a treatment. Ray > > > > > > > > > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "moiragrubb2000" <moiragrubb2000@> > > wrote: > > > > > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "sevenspringss" <sevenspringss@> > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > thanks ray were the measurements for epsom salts in imp gallons or > > > > us gallons mo > > > > > > > > > Unfortunately, there's no magic wand that goes along with the epsom > > salt remedy for constipation in fish. It may take as little as 12 hours, or > > it may take 24 or even more hours -- if it works. As this is but one method > > of attepting a cure for intestinal blockage, it may not even work in all > > cases, but it's a well-recognize and old treatment towards effecting a cure. > > It's not 100% guaranteed, but neither are green peas; although this can be > > tried whether or not a fish is eating, whereas peas (often promoting bowel > > movements in fish) has little hope if the fish isn't eating. > > > > > > > > > > Percentage of water to take out? I'm guessing you mean as the > > > > > part of regular PWC (partial water changes) of normal aquarium > > > > > maintenance. Normally, hobbyists change from 1/4 to 1/3 of their > > > > > tank weekly, but this also depends on the bioload. You could try > > > > > 15% to 20% twice a week, testing as you go for the usual ammonia, > > > > > nitrite and nitrate parameters which we are trying to keep at safe > > > > > levels when doing these PWC's -- then go from there according to > > > > > these tests results, either increasing or decreasing as the case > > > > > may be. If you prefer doing smaller, more frequent PWC's, start > > > > > off with 10% every other day. Ray > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "moiragrubb2000" <moiragrubb2000@> > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, sevenspringss@ wrote: > > > > > > > my problem at the moment is isolating him how long would the > > > > > > > epsom salts take to work do you think . the longer he is going > > > > > > > without eating the more worried im getting could you also > > > > > > > answer my question on how much percent of water safe to take > > > > > > > out if i was doing 2 to 3 a week cheers mo > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Mo, At first thought, I too figured this problem may have had > > > > > > > something to do with the freeze dried food, but that seemed > > > > > > > too "obvious," so I was looking for possible water quality > > > > > > > issues. You're apparently maintaining this aquarium properly > > > > > > > though, so we come right back to this food. For treating with > > > > > > > Epsom Salts, try using 1 Tbp per 5 gallons, if it seems he's > > > > > > > constipated > > > > > > > -- and if you can isolate him. Pleco's don't like too much > > > > > > > table salt and I'm not sure if they take kindly to Epsom Salts > > > > > > > either. For treating initial stages of some internal issues, > > > > > > > some hobbyists increase the amount of Epsom Salts slowly to 1 > > > > > > > tsp per gallon (or more) -- that's 1 2/3 Tsp per 5 gallons -- > > > > > > > but the fish must be observed that he doesn't get stressed. > > > > > > > Ray > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ------------------------------------ > > > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 43037	From: moiragrubb2000	Date: 9/1/2009
Subject: Re: oscar ill

--- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "sevenspringss" <sevenspringss@...> wrote: > ray im sure you must think im a bit of an idiot but if it looks like im asking something after youve answered it its cause my e mails are all over the place im gratefull for you help ant time helping me sort this out cheers mo > Could just be that by now, if there is an intestinal blockage, that there may be a bacterial issue. Then too, as I was starting to get at originally when asking about water parameters, there is the possibility of him having internal parasites as I touched on in my first message this morning. But let's see how he does with the epsom salt first. As long as food is present (for the other fish), there remains the possibility of his eating a bit when you don't notice it, but I actually tend to doubt it in the condition you describe. > > The epsom salt will work to harden the water, but should not act to have an effect on the filter as far as I'm aware. For possible treatment with an antibiotic or an antiparasite medication, it would be best to do a PWC to dilute most of the epsom salt, but a small amount shouldn't be detrimental in any way. > > I wasn't aware that you have another tank. In this case, IF the water parameters match that of the Oscar's tank, it would be allowable to use this water (not having any epsom salt) as 1/2 that of the storage container and 1/2 treated tap water since you haven't added that much epsom salt to his tank yet. I would not advise that though if you had already added additional epsom salts, as you'll be doing in another 12 hours, as that move will increase the osmotic pressure even more -- which we always try to keep at a minimum. Using his present water though, from his tank, having some epsom salt now in it would still be no problem if medicating in the container, as it will be diluted to half anyway when using 1/2 tap water. Ray > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "moiragrubb2000" <moiragrubb2000@> wrote: > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@> wrote: > > > > > lenny thats what i was thinking having 2 ponds im aware of the bacterial issue i do have a 10 gallon hospital tank but never thought about using storage container been wracking my braihs on what i can use and the answer staring me in the face lol what ill do is set that up today in readiness would i use water out of oscar tank or some out of another tank .i havent seen him eat in about a week like you say its possible he is eating when im not looking .im going to up the epsom salt today then ill give it another 12 hours and see whats happening does the epsom salt have any effect on your filters was assuming not sinse nobody mentioned it . just for future ref could you use epsom salt along side medication or would you do a water change to dilute it hopefuuly i wouldnt ever need to use it again but usefull to know thanks . > > mo > > > A fish can go at least a week without eating, sometimes more. There's > > > always a chance he is eating something when you aren't watching which would > > > extend the period. How long has it been since you've seen him eat? > > > > > > If it is an internal bacterial issue, then you should really have a Q-tank > > > so you can start a treatment with antibiotics on just the one fish. There > > > is the possibility that any impacted food has started to decay and be more > > > of a haven for bacterial growth. This often happens to overwintering > > > goldfish/Koi that are fed after the water temperature drops too low (into > > > the low 50'sF) for them to properly digest the food. > > > > > > You should really try the Epsom Salt treatment since it could have results > > > in a 12-24 hour period and if it doesn't then you can look at other > > > treatment options. > > > > > > As a reminder to others reading this thread, this is why it's so good to > > > have a Q-tank, even if it's only a Rubbermaid type storage container (I use > > > the Sterilite clear storage boxes for bigger fish and one of my extra 10G > > > tanks for smaller fish) for when a fish gets sick so they can be observed > > > separately for poop diagnosis as that helps a lot in determining what is > > > wrong. They will also feel "safer" by themselves and you would also be able > > > to know for certain if they are eating. > > > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > > > (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right > > > side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) > > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On > > > Behalf Of moiragrubb2000 > > > Sent: Monday, August 31, 2009 7:46 PM > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: oscar ill > > > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "sevenspringss" <sevenspringss@> > > > wrote: > > > > > > > ray i had a bit of bother getting epsom salts as lot of shops dont sell it > > > but got it today and is in tank would appreciate your advice on whether i > > > can treat tank with this in just worried that maybe he got internal bacteria > > > would i be able to put an internal bacteria in tank or would i be better > > > holding fire to see what happens i notice that he seems to be rubbing his > > > belly gently on the driftwood that what it looks like anyway how long can a > > > fish this size go without eating mo > > > > > > > Those measurements using Epsom Salt in amounts of water are in U.S. > > > Gallons. This often works and is sure worth a try. As you have no other > > > large tank to isolate either the Oscar or the Pleco, you may try the > > > treatment in your 70 Imperial Gallon (84 U.S, Gallon) tank, starting out at > > > half-strength (1 Tbp. per 10 U.S, Gallons). Reports I've read indicate that > > > Plecos will be fine at 1 Tbs. (Tablespoon) of Epsom Salt per 5 U.S. gallons > > > (and even more), but it's always easier on any fish when introducing a > > > foreign substance to graduate it in increments over time. > > > > > > > > Scale-less fish do not react to Epsom Salt (Magnesium Sulfate) in as a > > > severe manner as they do with the use of Table Salt (Sodium Chloride), as > > > it's the chloride the penetrates the skin with burning/toxic results when > > > using Table Salt, whereas Epsom Salt's sulfate may promote irritation of the > > > skin in higher concentrations. As long as this concentration is kept low > > > enough, it will not irritate him. The 1 Tbs. per 10 U.S. gallons may be all > > > that is necessary to have a positive effect on your Oscar and is were I > > > would start -- or even less, but it's good to know it can be increased and > > > still be safe for the Pleco when kept below the afore-mentioned amount. As > > > with any unknown process in how it may effect a fish, it's best to observe > > > for stress in which case you may do a 1/3 PWC to decrease the concentration > > > should the need arise, although this should not be necessary -- but just to > > > know what can be done if needed. > > > > > > > > Give the 1 Tbs per 10 U.S. gallons (or less) time (at least 12 hours) > > > > to work before considering increasing the concentration. Some > > > > hobbyists report success with smaller gut-blocked fish with using as > > > > little as 1/8 tsp. per U.S. Gallon, but since other reports indicate > > > > using as much as double the amount I've indicated, I find these > > > > extremes of much less and much more to be excesses (too little or too > > > > much) to one direction or the other to effect a treatment. Ray > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "moiragrubb2000" <moiragrubb2000@> > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "sevenspringss" <sevenspringss@> > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > thanks ray were the measurements for epsom salts in imp gallons or > > > > > us gallons mo > > > > > > > > > > > Unfortunately, there's no magic wand that goes along with the epsom > > > salt remedy for constipation in fish. It may take as little as 12 hours, or > > > it may take 24 or even more hours -- if it works. As this is but one method > > > of attepting a cure for intestinal blockage, it may not even work in all > > > cases, but it's a well-recognize and old treatment towards effecting a cure. > > > It's not 100% guaranteed, but neither are green peas; although this can be > > > tried whether or not a fish is eating, whereas peas (often promoting bowel > > > movements in fish) has little hope if the fish isn't eating. > > > > > > > > > > > > Percentage of water to take out? I'm guessing you mean as the > > > > > > part of regular PWC (partial water changes) of normal aquarium > > > > > > maintenance. Normally, hobbyists change from 1/4 to 1/3 of their > > > > > > tank weekly, but this also depends on the bioload. You could try > > > > > > 15% to 20% twice a week, testing as you go for the usual ammonia, > > > > > > nitrite and nitrate parameters which we are trying to keep at safe > > > > > > levels when doing these PWC's -- then go from there according to > > > > > > these tests results, either increasing or decreasing as the case > > > > > > may be. If you prefer doing smaller, more frequent PWC's, start > > > > > > off with 10% every other day. Ray > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "moiragrubb2000" <moiragrubb2000@> > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, sevenspringss@ wrote: > > > > > > > > my problem at the moment is isolating him how long would the > > > > > > > > epsom salts take to work do you think . the longer he is going > > > > > > > > without eating the more worried im getting could you also > > > > > > > > answer my question on how much percent of water safe to take > > > > > > > > out if i was doing 2 to 3 a week cheers mo > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Mo, At first thought, I too figured this problem may have had > > > > > > > > something to do with the freeze dried food, but that seemed > > > > > > > > too "obvious," so I was looking for possible water quality > > > > > > > > issues. You're apparently maintaining this aquarium properly > > > > > > > > though, so we come right back to this food. For treating with > > > > > > > > Epsom Salts, try using 1 Tbp per 5 gallons, if it seems he's > > > > > > > > constipated > > > > > > > > -- and if you can isolate him. Pleco's don't like too much > > > > > > > > table salt and I'm not sure if they take kindly to Epsom Salts > > > > > > > > either. For treating initial stages of some internal issues, > > > > > > > > some hobbyists increase the amount of Epsom Salts slowly to 1 > > > > > > > > tsp per gallon (or more) -- that's 1 2/3 Tsp per 5 gallons -- > > > > > > > > but the fish must be observed that he doesn't get stressed. > > > > > > > > Ray > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ------------------------------------ > > > > > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. > > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 43038	From: moira grubb	Date: 9/1/2009
Subject: Re: oscar ill

cheers ray i did notice the messages were wrong way lol it caused me a bit of confusion  i take it the epsom salt wouldnt have an adverse effect on any medication  mo --- On Tue, 1/9/09, sevenspringss <sevenspringss@...> wrote: From: sevenspringss <sevenspringss@...> Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: oscar ill To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Date: Tuesday, 1 September, 2009, 12:12 PM   I've approved your last two messages in the order that you sent them, one at 4:25 AM EDT and the other at 6:35 AM EDT but I see Yahoo chose to post them in the reverse order -- So I'll address them in their present order. Too bad about the most obvious stores for carrying this product not having it, but at least you found it. Glad to see you've already started treatment with it. Also nice to see that you're prepared with a spare heater and filter. If this filter is not cycled, just take some filter media from your established filter and stuff it into this one. Fill the container with 1/2 water from his tank and 1/2 water from the tap (treated); well, don't quite "fill" it, unless you (preferably) have a clear top for it. Leave at least 4" (5", if the container is deep enough) of space to help ensure he doesn't jump out. Ray --- In AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com, "moiragrubb2000" <moiragrubb2000@ ...> wrote: > > --- In AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com, "sevenspringss" <sevenspringss@ > wrote: > > > i have already started treatment and have upped the dosage today believe it or not none of my local supermarkets sold this and tried 4 pharmacys before finding this at s small chemist unbelievable i was going to set up aclear storage box i had but wasnt as big as i thought so sent hubby to get the biggest he can find and going to set it up today i have got spare heater and filter refering bacck to my prev post what water would you recommend i use mo > > > Any supermarket or pharmacy has epsom salt, so you should have been able to find it easily. Not all fish stores have it as it's not necessarily an aquarium hobby related item. We only recommend it knowing that it usually works as well on fish as a laxative as well as it works on humans (in the form of Milk of Magnesia). > > > > He may be rubbing his belly in attempts to dislodge the blockage. While he may have internal bacteria or parasites, which remains yet unseen, an attempt at treating him for intestinal blockage should see improvement within 12 to 24 hours if that's the problem and should be started ASAP if only to determine whether further steps may be needed for treating possible internal pathogen issues. A fish of 14" can go without eating for a month (six weeks, but that would be stretching it to the point of probable no return), but then you did say that he hasn't eaten for a little while now already. > > > > If it comes down to it, internal pathogen medications should be done in isolation. Consider a cheap container of any type (doesn't need to be an "aquarium") large enough to house either him or the other fish to separate him for treating if it becomes necessary. At such possible time, you will most probably need another heater for this container, depending on your ambient temperatures. Ray > > > > > > > > --- In AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com, "moiragrubb2000" <moiragrubb2000@ > wrote: > > > > > > --- In AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com, "sevenspringss" <sevenspringss@ > wrote: > > > > > > > ray i had a bit of bother getting epsom salts as lot of shops dont sell it but got it today and is in tank would appreciate your advice on whether i can treat tank with this in just worried that maybe he got internal bacteria would i be able to put an internal bacteria in tank or would i be better holding fire to see what happens i notice that he seems to be rubbing his belly gently on the driftwood that what it looks like anyway how long can a fish this size go without eating mo > > > > > > > Those measurements using Epsom Salt in amounts of water are in U.S. Gallons. This often works and is sure worth a try. As you have no other large tank to isolate either the Oscar or the Pleco, you may try the treatment in your 70 Imperial Gallon (84 U.S, Gallon) tank, starting out at half-strength (1 Tbp. per 10 U.S, Gallons). Reports I've read indicate that Plecos will be fine at 1 Tbs. (Tablespoon) of Epsom Salt per 5 U.S. gallons (and even more), but it's always easier on any fish when introducing a foreign substance to graduate it in increments over time. > > > > > > > > Scale-less fish do not react to Epsom Salt (Magnesium Sulfate) in as a severe manner as they do with the use of Table Salt (Sodium Chloride), as it's the chloride the penetrates the skin with burning/toxic results when using Table Salt, whereas Epsom Salt's sulfate may promote irritation of the skin in higher concentrations. As long as this concentration is kept low enough, it will not irritate him. The 1 Tbs. per 10 U.S. gallons may be all that is necessary to have a positive effect on your Oscar and is were I would start -- or even less, but it's good to know it can be increased and still be safe for the Pleco when kept below the afore-mentioned amount. As with any unknown process in how it may effect a fish, it's best to observe for stress in which case you may do a 1/3 PWC to decrease the concentration should the need arise, although this should not be necessary -- but just to know what can be done if needed. > > > > > > > > Give the 1 Tbs per 10 U.S. gallons (or less) time (at least 12 hours) to work before considering increasing the concentration. Some hobbyists report success with smaller gut-blocked fish with using as little as 1/8 tsp. per U.S. Gallon, but since other reports indicate using as much as double the amount I've indicated, I find these extremes of much less and much more to be excesses (too little or too much) to one direction or the other to effect a treatment. Ray > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > --- In AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com, "moiragrubb2000" <moiragrubb2000@ > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > --- In AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com, "sevenspringss" <sevenspringss@ > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > thanks ray were the measurements for epsom salts in imp gallons or us gallons mo > > > > > > > > > > > Unfortunately, there's no magic wand that goes along with the epsom salt remedy for constipation in fish. It may take as little as 12 hours, or it may take 24 or even more hours -- if it works. As this is but one method of attepting a cure for intestinal blockage, it may not even work in all cases, but it's a well-recognize and old treatment towards effecting a cure. It's not 100% guaranteed, but neither are green peas; although this can be tried whether or not a fish is eating, whereas peas (often promoting bowel movements in fish) has little hope if the fish isn't eating. > > > > > > > > > > > > Percentage of water to take out? I'm guessing you mean as the part of regular PWC (partial water changes) of normal aquarium maintenance. Normally, hobbyists change from 1/4 to 1/3 of their tank weekly, but this also depends on the bioload. You could try 15% to 20% twice a week, testing as you go for the usual ammonia, nitrite and nitrate parameters which we are trying to keep at safe levels when doing these PWC's -- then go from there according to these tests results, either increasing or decreasing as the case may be. If you prefer doing smaller, more frequent PWC's, start off with 10% every other day. Ray > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > --- In AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com, "moiragrubb2000" <moiragrubb2000@ > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > --- In AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com, sevenspringss@ wrote: > > > > > > > > my problem at the moment is isolating him how long would the epsom salts take to work do you think . the longer he is going without eating the more worried im getting could you also answer my question on how much percent of water safe to take out if i was doing 2 to 3 a week cheers mo > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Mo, At first thought, I too figured this problem may have had something to > > > > > > > > do with the freeze dried food, but that seemed too "obvious," so I was > > > > > > > > looking for possible water quality issues. You're apparently maintaining this > > > > > > > > aquarium properly though, so we come right back to this food. For treating > > > > > > > > with Epsom Salts, try using 1 Tbp per 5 gallons, if it seems he's constipated > > > > > > > > -- and if you can isolate him. Pleco's don't like too much table salt and > > > > > > > > I'm not sure if they take kindly to Epsom Salts either. For treating initial > > > > > > > > stages of some internal issues, some hobbyists increase the amount of Epsom > > > > > > > > Salts slowly to 1 tsp per gallon (or more) -- that's 1 2/3 Tsp per 5 > > > > > > > > gallons -- but the fish must be observed that he doesn't get stressed. Ray > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 43039	From: sevenspringss	Date: 9/1/2009
Subject: Re: oscar ill

No problem, not your fault. I see you discovered much of the problem in the way Yahoo posted them. Ray --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "moiragrubb2000" <moiragrubb2000@...> wrote: > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "sevenspringss" <sevenspringss@> wrote: > > > ray im sure you must think im a bit of an idiot but if it looks like im asking something after youve answered it its cause my e mails are all over the place im gratefull for you help ant time helping me sort this out cheers > mo > > Could just be that by now, if there is an intestinal blockage, that there may be a bacterial issue. Then too, as I was starting to get at originally when asking about water parameters, there is the possibility of him having internal parasites as I touched on in my first message this morning. But let's see how he does with the epsom salt first. As long as food is present (for the other fish), there remains the possibility of his eating a bit when you don't notice it, but I actually tend to doubt it in the condition you describe. > > > > The epsom salt will work to harden the water, but should not act to have an effect on the filter as far as I'm aware. For possible treatment with an antibiotic or an antiparasite medication, it would be best to do a PWC to dilute most of the epsom salt, but a small amount shouldn't be detrimental in any way. > > > > I wasn't aware that you have another tank. In this case, IF the water parameters match that of the Oscar's tank, it would be allowable to use this water (not having any epsom salt) as 1/2 that of the storage container and 1/2 treated tap water since you haven't added that much epsom salt to his tank yet. I would not advise that though if you had already added additional epsom salts, as you'll be doing in another 12 hours, as that move will increase the osmotic pressure even more -- which we always try to keep at a minimum. Using his present water though, from his tank, having some epsom salt now in it would still be no problem if medicating in the container, as it will be diluted to half anyway when using 1/2 tap water. Ray > > > > > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "moiragrubb2000" <moiragrubb2000@> wrote: > > > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@> wrote: > > > > > > > lenny thats what i was thinking having 2 ponds im aware of the bacterial issue i do have a 10 gallon hospital tank but never thought about using storage container been wracking my braihs on what i can use and the answer staring me in the face lol what ill do is set that up today in readiness would i use water out of oscar tank or some out of another tank .i havent seen him eat in about a week like you say its possible he is eating when im not looking .im going to up the epsom salt today then ill give it another 12 hours and see whats happening does the epsom salt have any effect on your filters was assuming not sinse nobody mentioned it . just for future ref could you use epsom salt along side medication or would you do a water change to dilute it hopefuuly i wouldnt ever need to use it again but usefull to know thanks . > > > mo > > > > A fish can go at least a week without eating, sometimes more. There's > > > > always a chance he is eating something when you aren't watching which would > > > > extend the period. How long has it been since you've seen him eat? > > > > > > > > If it is an internal bacterial issue, then you should really have a Q-tank > > > > so you can start a treatment with antibiotics on just the one fish. There > > > > is the possibility that any impacted food has started to decay and be more > > > > of a haven for bacterial growth. This often happens to overwintering > > > > goldfish/Koi that are fed after the water temperature drops too low (into > > > > the low 50'sF) for them to properly digest the food. > > > > > > > > You should really try the Epsom Salt treatment since it could have results > > > > in a 12-24 hour period and if it doesn't then you can look at other > > > > treatment options. > > > > > > > > As a reminder to others reading this thread, this is why it's so good to > > > > have a Q-tank, even if it's only a Rubbermaid type storage container (I use > > > > the Sterilite clear storage boxes for bigger fish and one of my extra 10G > > > > tanks for smaller fish) for when a fish gets sick so they can be observed > > > > separately for poop diagnosis as that helps a lot in determining what is > > > > wrong. They will also feel "safer" by themselves and you would also be able > > > > to know for certain if they are eating. > > > > > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > > > > (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right > > > > side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) > > > > > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On > > > > Behalf Of moiragrubb2000 > > > > Sent: Monday, August 31, 2009 7:46 PM > > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > > > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: oscar ill > > > > > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "sevenspringss" <sevenspringss@> > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > ray i had a bit of bother getting epsom salts as lot of shops dont sell it > > > > but got it today and is in tank would appreciate your advice on whether i > > > > can treat tank with this in just worried that maybe he got internal bacteria > > > > would i be able to put an internal bacteria in tank or would i be better > > > > holding fire to see what happens i notice that he seems to be rubbing his > > > > belly gently on the driftwood that what it looks like anyway how long can a > > > > fish this size go without eating mo > > > > > > > > > Those measurements using Epsom Salt in amounts of water are in U.S. > > > > Gallons. This often works and is sure worth a try. As you have no other > > > > large tank to isolate either the Oscar or the Pleco, you may try the > > > > treatment in your 70 Imperial Gallon (84 U.S, Gallon) tank, starting out at > > > > half-strength (1 Tbp. per 10 U.S, Gallons). Reports I've read indicate that > > > > Plecos will be fine at 1 Tbs. (Tablespoon) of Epsom Salt per 5 U.S. gallons > > > > (and even more), but it's always easier on any fish when introducing a > > > > foreign substance to graduate it in increments over time. > > > > > > > > > > Scale-less fish do not react to Epsom Salt (Magnesium Sulfate) in as a > > > > severe manner as they do with the use of Table Salt (Sodium Chloride), as > > > > it's the chloride the penetrates the skin with burning/toxic results when > > > > using Table Salt, whereas Epsom Salt's sulfate may promote irritation of the > > > > skin in higher concentrations. As long as this concentration is kept low > > > > enough, it will not irritate him. The 1 Tbs. per 10 U.S. gallons may be all > > > > that is necessary to have a positive effect on your Oscar and is were I > > > > would start -- or even less, but it's good to know it can be increased and > > > > still be safe for the Pleco when kept below the afore-mentioned amount. As > > > > with any unknown process in how it may effect a fish, it's best to observe > > > > for stress in which case you may do a 1/3 PWC to decrease the concentration > > > > should the need arise, although this should not be necessary -- but just to > > > > know what can be done if needed. > > > > > > > > > > Give the 1 Tbs per 10 U.S. gallons (or less) time (at least 12 hours) > > > > > to work before considering increasing the concentration. Some > > > > > hobbyists report success with smaller gut-blocked fish with using as > > > > > little as 1/8 tsp. per U.S. Gallon, but since other reports indicate > > > > > using as much as double the amount I've indicated, I find these > > > > > extremes of much less and much more to be excesses (too little or too > > > > > much) to one direction or the other to effect a treatment. Ray > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "moiragrubb2000" <moiragrubb2000@> > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "sevenspringss" <sevenspringss@> > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > thanks ray were the measurements for epsom salts in imp gallons or > > > > > > us gallons mo > > > > > > > > > > > > > Unfortunately, there's no magic wand that goes along with the epsom > > > > salt remedy for constipation in fish. It may take as little as 12 hours, or > > > > it may take 24 or even more hours -- if it works. As this is but one method > > > > of attepting a cure for intestinal blockage, it may not even work in all > > > > cases, but it's a well-recognize and old treatment towards effecting a cure. > > > > It's not 100% guaranteed, but neither are green peas; although this can be > > > > tried whether or not a fish is eating, whereas peas (often promoting bowel > > > > movements in fish) has little hope if the fish isn't eating. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Percentage of water to take out? I'm guessing you mean as the > > > > > > > part of regular PWC (partial water changes) of normal aquarium > > > > > > > maintenance. Normally, hobbyists change from 1/4 to 1/3 of their > > > > > > > tank weekly, but this also depends on the bioload. You could try > > > > > > > 15% to 20% twice a week, testing as you go for the usual ammonia, > > > > > > > nitrite and nitrate parameters which we are trying to keep at safe > > > > > > > levels when doing these PWC's -- then go from there according to > > > > > > > these tests results, either increasing or decreasing as the case > > > > > > > may be. If you prefer doing smaller, more frequent PWC's, start > > > > > > > off with 10% every other day. Ray > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "moiragrubb2000" <moiragrubb2000@> > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, sevenspringss@ wrote: > > > > > > > > > my problem at the moment is isolating him how long would the > > > > > > > > > epsom salts take to work do you think . the longer he is going > > > > > > > > > without eating the more worried im getting could you also > > > > > > > > > answer my question on how much percent of water safe to take > > > > > > > > > out if i was doing 2 to 3 a week cheers mo > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Mo, At first thought, I too figured this problem may have had > > > > > > > > > something to do with the freeze dried food, but that seemed > > > > > > > > > too "obvious," so I was looking for possible water quality > > > > > > > > > issues. You're apparently maintaining this aquarium properly > > > > > > > > > though, so we come right back to this food. For treating with > > > > > > > > > Epsom Salts, try using 1 Tbp per 5 gallons, if it seems he's > > > > > > > > > constipated > > > > > > > > > -- and if you can isolate him. Pleco's don't like too much > > > > > > > > > table salt and I'm not sure if they take kindly to Epsom Salts > > > > > > > > > either. For treating initial stages of some internal issues, > > > > > > > > > some hobbyists increase the amount of Epsom Salts slowly to 1 > > > > > > > > > tsp per gallon (or more) -- that's 1 2/3 Tsp per 5 gallons -- > > > > > > > > > but the fish must be observed that he doesn't get stressed. > > > > > > > > > Ray > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ------------------------------------ > > > > > > > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. > > > > > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 43040	From: sevenspringss	Date: 9/1/2009
Subject: Re: oscar ill

Yes, I don't know why yahoo posted them in the reverse order. Sorry it confused you. I thought it best to answer them in the order Yahoo posted them to prevent any confusion, as usually the messages are read from the top down (first one first) in your In Box. Anyway, in answer to the epsom salt, I see you've given the Oscar his initial dosage. I still don't know what you've decided on giving him, as the initial amount of this epsom salt dosage. In any event, it shouldn't have any adverse effect on medications, that I can see, and as I reminded you, the amount of epsom salt being used will be diluted in half when you make up the water for the container. While on this subject, I'd just like to clarify the statement I made about trying to keep the osmotic pressure at a minimum. That should read read, to keep the osmotic pressure difference at a minimum. Ray --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, moira grubb <moiragrubb2000@...> wrote: > > > cheers ray i did notice the messages were wrong way lol it caused me a bit of confusion  i take it the epsom salt wouldnt have an adverse effect on any medication  mo > --- On Tue, 1/9/09, sevenspringss <sevenspringss@...> wrote: > > From: sevenspringss <sevenspringss@...> > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: oscar ill > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Date: Tuesday, 1 September, 2009, 12:12 PM > > > > > > >   > > > > > > I've approved your last two messages in the order that you sent them, one at 4:25 AM EDT and the other at 6:35 AM EDT but I see Yahoo chose to post them in the reverse order -- So I'll address them in their present order. Too bad about the most obvious stores for carrying this product not having it, but at least you found it. Glad to see you've already started treatment with it. Also nice to see that you're prepared with a spare heater and filter. If this filter is not cycled, just take some filter media from your established filter and stuff it into this one. Fill the container with 1/2 water from his tank and 1/2 water from the tap (treated); well, don't quite "fill" it, unless you (preferably) have a clear top for it. Leave at least 4" (5", if the container is deep enough) of space to help ensure he doesn't jump out. Ray > > > > --- In AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com, "moiragrubb2000" <moiragrubb2000@ ...> wrote: > > > > > > --- In AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com, "sevenspringss" <sevenspringss@ > wrote: > > > > > > > i have already started treatment and have upped the dosage today believe it or not none of my local supermarkets sold this and tried 4 pharmacys before finding this at s small chemist unbelievable i was going to set up aclear storage box i had but wasnt as big as i thought so sent hubby to get the biggest he can find and going to set it up today i have got spare heater and filter refering bacck to my prev post what water would you recommend i use mo > > > > > > > Any supermarket or pharmacy has epsom salt, so you should have been able to find it easily. Not all fish stores have it as it's not necessarily an aquarium hobby related item. We only recommend it knowing that it usually works as well on fish as a laxative as well as it works on humans (in the form of Milk of Magnesia). > > > > > > > > He may be rubbing his belly in attempts to dislodge the blockage. While he may have internal bacteria or parasites, which remains yet unseen, an attempt at treating him for intestinal blockage should see improvement within 12 to 24 hours if that's the problem and should be started ASAP if only to determine whether further steps may be needed for treating possible internal pathogen issues. A fish of 14" can go without eating for a month (six weeks, but that would be stretching it to the point of probable no return), but then you did say that he hasn't eaten for a little while now already. > > > > > > > > If it comes down to it, internal pathogen medications should be done in isolation. Consider a cheap container of any type (doesn't need to be an "aquarium") large enough to house either him or the other fish to separate him for treating if it becomes necessary. At such possible time, you will most probably need another heater for this container, depending on your ambient temperatures. Ray > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > --- In AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com, "moiragrubb2000" <moiragrubb2000@ > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > --- In AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com, "sevenspringss" <sevenspringss@ > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > ray i had a bit of bother getting epsom salts as lot of shops dont sell it but got it today and is in tank would appreciate your advice on whether i can treat tank with this in just worried that maybe he got internal bacteria would i be able to put an internal bacteria in tank or would i be better holding fire to see what happens i notice that he seems to be rubbing his belly gently on the driftwood that what it looks like anyway how long can a fish this size go without eating mo > > > > > > > > > > > Those measurements using Epsom Salt in amounts of water are in U.S. Gallons. This often works and is sure worth a try. As you have no other large tank to isolate either the Oscar or the Pleco, you may try the treatment in your 70 Imperial Gallon (84 U.S, Gallon) tank, starting out at half-strength (1 Tbp. per 10 U.S, Gallons). Reports I've read indicate that Plecos will be fine at 1 Tbs. (Tablespoon) of Epsom Salt per 5 U.S. gallons (and even more), but it's always easier on any fish when introducing a foreign substance to graduate it in increments over time. > > > > > > > > > > > > Scale-less fish do not react to Epsom Salt (Magnesium Sulfate) in as a severe manner as they do with the use of Table Salt (Sodium Chloride), as it's the chloride the penetrates the skin with burning/toxic results when using Table Salt, whereas Epsom Salt's sulfate may promote irritation of the skin in higher concentrations. As long as this concentration is kept low enough, it will not irritate him. The 1 Tbs. per 10 U.S. gallons may be all that is necessary to have a positive effect on your Oscar and is were I would start -- or even less, but it's good to know it can be increased and still be safe for the Pleco when kept below the afore-mentioned amount. As with any unknown process in how it may effect a fish, it's best to observe for stress in which case you may do a 1/3 PWC to decrease the concentration should the need arise, although this should not be necessary -- but just to know what can be done if needed. > > > > > > > > > > > > Give the 1 Tbs per 10 U.S. gallons (or less) time (at least 12 hours) to work before considering increasing the concentration. Some hobbyists report success with smaller gut-blocked fish with using as little as 1/8 tsp. per U.S. Gallon, but since other reports indicate using as much as double the amount I've indicated, I find these extremes of much less and much more to be excesses (too little or too much) to one direction or the other to effect a treatment. Ray > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > --- In AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com, "moiragrubb2000" <moiragrubb2000@ > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > --- In AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com, "sevenspringss" <sevenspringss@ > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > thanks ray were the measurements for epsom salts in imp gallons or us gallons mo > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Unfortunately, there's no magic wand that goes along with the epsom salt remedy for constipation in fish. It may take as little as 12 hours, or it may take 24 or even more hours -- if it works. As this is but one method of attepting a cure for intestinal blockage, it may not even work in all cases, but it's a well-recognize and old treatment towards effecting a cure. It's not 100% guaranteed, but neither are green peas; although this can be tried whether or not a fish is eating, whereas peas (often promoting bowel movements in fish) has little hope if the fish isn't eating. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Percentage of water to take out? I'm guessing you mean as the part of regular PWC (partial water changes) of normal aquarium maintenance. Normally, hobbyists change from 1/4 to 1/3 of their tank weekly, but this also depends on the bioload. You could try 15% to 20% twice a week, testing as you go for the usual ammonia, nitrite and nitrate parameters which we are trying to keep at safe levels when doing these PWC's -- then go from there according to these tests results, either increasing or decreasing as the case may be. If you prefer doing smaller, more frequent PWC's, start off with 10% every other day. Ray > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > --- In AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com, "moiragrubb2000" <moiragrubb2000@ > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > --- In AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com, sevenspringss@ wrote: > > > > > > > > > > my problem at the moment is isolating him how long would the epsom salts take to work do you think . the longer he is going without eating the more worried im getting could you also answer my question on how much percent of water safe to take out if i was doing 2 to 3 a week cheers mo > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Mo, At first thought, I too figured this problem may have had something to > > > > > > > > > > do with the freeze dried food, but that seemed too "obvious," so I was > > > > > > > > > > looking for possible water quality issues. You're apparently maintaining this > > > > > > > > > > aquarium properly though, so we come right back to this food. For treating > > > > > > > > > > with Epsom Salts, try using 1 Tbp per 5 gallons, if it seems he's constipated > > > > > > > > > > -- and if you can isolate him. Pleco's don't like too much table salt and > > > > > > > > > > I'm not sure if they take kindly to Epsom Salts either. For treating initial > > > > > > > > > > stages of some internal issues, some hobbyists increase the amount of Epsom > > > > > > > > > > Salts slowly to 1 tsp per gallon (or more) -- that's 1 2/3 Tsp per 5 > > > > > > > > > > gallons -- but the fish must be observed that he doesn't get stressed. Ray > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 43041	From: moiragrubb2000	Date: 9/1/2009
Subject: Re: oscar ill

--- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "sevenspringss" <sevenspringss@...> wrote: > ray just to double check before i set up tank my initialdose was 9 tbs followed by another 8 tsp this morning which was about 16 hours later that was 9am this morning bmt 7 hours ago so think thats roughly 11 tbs in tank so going by that would you reccommend using half his water or half another tanks water along side treated fresh water sorry for being a pain but just want to be sure im all ready to set it up had to go out earlier so couldnt answer your post at the time cheers mo > Yes, I don't know why yahoo posted them in the reverse order. Sorry it confused you. I thought it best to answer them in the order Yahoo posted them to prevent any confusion, as usually the messages are read from the top down (first one first) in your In Box. > > Anyway, in answer to the epsom salt, I see you've given the Oscar his initial dosage. I still don't know what you've decided on giving him, as the initial amount of this epsom salt dosage. In any event, it shouldn't have any adverse effect on medications, that I can see, and as I reminded you, the amount of epsom salt being used will be diluted in half when you make up the water for the container. While on this subject, I'd just like to clarify the statement I made about trying to keep the osmotic pressure at a minimum. That should read read, to keep the osmotic pressure difference at a minimum. Ray > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, moira grubb <moiragrubb2000@> wrote: > > > > > > cheers ray i did notice the messages were wrong way lol it caused me a bit of confusion  i take it the epsom salt wouldnt have an adverse effect on any medication  mo > > --- On Tue, 1/9/09, sevenspringss <sevenspringss@> wrote: > > > > From: sevenspringss <sevenspringss@> > > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: oscar ill > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > Date: Tuesday, 1 September, 2009, 12:12 PM > > > > > > > > > > > > > >   > > > > > > > > > > > > I've approved your last two messages in the order that you sent them, one at 4:25 AM EDT and the other at 6:35 AM EDT but I see Yahoo chose to post them in the reverse order -- So I'll address them in their present order. Too bad about the most obvious stores for carrying this product not having it, but at least you found it. Glad to see you've already started treatment with it. Also nice to see that you're prepared with a spare heater and filter. If this filter is not cycled, just take some filter media from your established filter and stuff it into this one. Fill the container with 1/2 water from his tank and 1/2 water from the tap (treated); well, don't quite "fill" it, unless you (preferably) have a clear top for it. Leave at least 4" (5", if the container is deep enough) of space to help ensure he doesn't jump out. Ray > > > > > > > > --- In AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com, "moiragrubb2000" <moiragrubb2000@ ...> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > --- In AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com, "sevenspringss" <sevenspringss@ > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > i have already started treatment and have upped the dosage today believe it or not none of my local supermarkets sold this and tried 4 pharmacys before finding this at s small chemist unbelievable i was going to set up aclear storage box i had but wasnt as big as i thought so sent hubby to get the biggest he can find and going to set it up today i have got spare heater and filter refering bacck to my prev post what water would you recommend i use mo > > > > > > > > > > > Any supermarket or pharmacy has epsom salt, so you should have been able to find it easily. Not all fish stores have it as it's not necessarily an aquarium hobby related item. We only recommend it knowing that it usually works as well on fish as a laxative as well as it works on humans (in the form of Milk of Magnesia). > > > > > > > > > > > > He may be rubbing his belly in attempts to dislodge the blockage. While he may have internal bacteria or parasites, which remains yet unseen, an attempt at treating him for intestinal blockage should see improvement within 12 to 24 hours if that's the problem and should be started ASAP if only to determine whether further steps may be needed for treating possible internal pathogen issues. A fish of 14" can go without eating for a month (six weeks, but that would be stretching it to the point of probable no return), but then you did say that he hasn't eaten for a little while now already. > > > > > > > > > > > > If it comes down to it, internal pathogen medications should be done in isolation. Consider a cheap container of any type (doesn't need to be an "aquarium") large enough to house either him or the other fish to separate him for treating if it becomes necessary. At such possible time, you will most probably need another heater for this container, depending on your ambient temperatures. Ray > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > --- In AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com, "moiragrubb2000" <moiragrubb2000@ > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > --- In AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com, "sevenspringss" <sevenspringss@ > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ray i had a bit of bother getting epsom salts as lot of shops dont sell it but got it today and is in tank would appreciate your advice on whether i can treat tank with this in just worried that maybe he got internal bacteria would i be able to put an internal bacteria in tank or would i be better holding fire to see what happens i notice that he seems to be rubbing his belly gently on the driftwood that what it looks like anyway how long can a fish this size go without eating mo > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Those measurements using Epsom Salt in amounts of water are in U.S. Gallons. This often works and is sure worth a try. As you have no other large tank to isolate either the Oscar or the Pleco, you may try the treatment in your 70 Imperial Gallon (84 U.S, Gallon) tank, starting out at half-strength (1 Tbp. per 10 U.S, Gallons). Reports I've read indicate that Plecos will be fine at 1 Tbs. (Tablespoon) of Epsom Salt per 5 U.S. gallons (and even more), but it's always easier on any fish when introducing a foreign substance to graduate it in increments over time. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Scale-less fish do not react to Epsom Salt (Magnesium Sulfate) in as a severe manner as they do with the use of Table Salt (Sodium Chloride), as it's the chloride the penetrates the skin with burning/toxic results when using Table Salt, whereas Epsom Salt's sulfate may promote irritation of the skin in higher concentrations. As long as this concentration is kept low enough, it will not irritate him. The 1 Tbs. per 10 U.S. gallons may be all that is necessary to have a positive effect on your Oscar and is were I would start -- or even less, but it's good to know it can be increased and still be safe for the Pleco when kept below the afore-mentioned amount. As with any unknown process in how it may effect a fish, it's best to observe for stress in which case you may do a 1/3 PWC to decrease the concentration should the need arise, although this should not be necessary -- but just to know what can be done if needed. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Give the 1 Tbs per 10 U.S. gallons (or less) time (at least 12 hours) to work before considering increasing the concentration. Some hobbyists report success with smaller gut-blocked fish with using as little as 1/8 tsp. per U.S. Gallon, but since other reports indicate using as much as double the amount I've indicated, I find these extremes of much less and much more to be excesses (too little or too much) to one direction or the other to effect a treatment. Ray > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > --- In AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com, "moiragrubb2000" <moiragrubb2000@ > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > --- In AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com, "sevenspringss" <sevenspringss@ > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > thanks ray were the measurements for epsom salts in imp gallons or us gallons mo > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Unfortunately, there's no magic wand that goes along with the epsom salt remedy for constipation in fish. It may take as little as 12 hours, or it may take 24 or even more hours -- if it works. As this is but one method of attepting a cure for intestinal blockage, it may not even work in all cases, but it's a well-recognize and old treatment towards effecting a cure. It's not 100% guaranteed, but neither are green peas; although this can be tried whether or not a fish is eating, whereas peas (often promoting bowel movements in fish) has little hope if the fish isn't eating. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Percentage of water to take out? I'm guessing you mean as the part of regular PWC (partial water changes) of normal aquarium maintenance. Normally, hobbyists change from 1/4 to 1/3 of their tank weekly, but this also depends on the bioload. You could try 15% to 20% twice a week, testing as you go for the usual ammonia, nitrite and nitrate parameters which we are trying to keep at safe levels when doing these PWC's -- then go from there according to these tests results, either increasing or decreasing as the case may be. If you prefer doing smaller, more frequent PWC's, start off with 10% every other day. Ray > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > --- In AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com, "moiragrubb2000" <moiragrubb2000@ > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > --- In AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com, sevenspringss@ wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > my problem at the moment is isolating him how long would the epsom salts take to work do you think . the longer he is going without eating the more worried im getting could you also answer my question on how much percent of water safe to take out if i was doing 2 to 3 a week cheers mo > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Mo, At first thought, I too figured this problem may have had something to > > > > > > > > > > > > do with the freeze dried food, but that seemed too "obvious," so I was > > > > > > > > > > > > looking for possible water quality issues. You're apparently maintaining this > > > > > > > > > > > > aquarium properly though, so we come right back to this food. For treating > > > > > > > > > > > > with Epsom Salts, try using 1 Tbp per 5 gallons, if it seems he's constipated > > > > > > > > > > > > -- and if you can isolate him. Pleco's don't like too much table salt and > > > > > > > > > > > > I'm not sure if they take kindly to Epsom Salts either. For treating initial > > > > > > > > > > > > stages of some internal issues, some hobbyists increase the amount of Epsom > > > > > > > > > > > > Salts slowly to 1 tsp per gallon (or more) -- that's 1 2/3 Tsp per 5 > > > > > > > > > > > > gallons -- but the fish must be observed that he doesn't get stressed. Ray > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 43042	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 9/1/2009
Subject: Re: oscar ill

What size tank do you have again mo? I couldn't remember, and it'll be needed to make sure your doses were right (I would assume so at least). Thanks, Amber moiragrubb2000 wrote: > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>, "sevenspringss" > <sevenspringss@...> wrote: > > > ray just to double check before i set up tank my initialdose was 9 tbs > followed by another 8 tsp this morning which was about 16 hours later > that was 9am this morning bmt 7 hours ago so think thats roughly 11 > tbs in tank so going by that would you reccommend using half his water > or half another tanks water along side treated fresh water sorry for > being a pain but just want to be sure im all ready to set it up had to > go out earlier so couldnt answer your post at the time cheers mo > > > Yes, I don't know why yahoo posted them in the reverse order. Sorry > it confused you. I thought it best to answer them in the order Yahoo > posted them to prevent any confusion, as usually the messages are read > from the top down (first one first) in your In Box. > > > > Anyway, in answer to the epsom salt, I see you've given the Oscar > his initial dosage. I still don't know what you've decided on giving > him, as the initial amount of this epsom salt dosage. In any event, it > shouldn't have any adverse effect on medications, that I can see, and > as I reminded you, the amount of epsom salt being used will be diluted > in half when you make up the water for the container. While on this > subject, I'd just like to clarify the statement I made about trying to > keep the osmotic pressure at a minimum. That should read read, to keep > the osmotic pressure difference at a minimum. Ray > > > > > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>, moira grubb <moiragrubb2000@> > wrote: > > > > > > > > > cheers ray i did notice the messages were wrong way lol it caused > me a bit of confusion i take it the epsom salt wouldnt have an > adverse effect on any medication mo > > > --- On Tue, 1/9/09, sevenspringss <sevenspringss@> wrote: > > > > > > From: sevenspringss <sevenspringss@> > > > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: oscar ill > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > Date: Tuesday, 1 September, 2009, 12:12 PM > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I've approved your last two messages in the order that you sent > them, one at 4:25 AM EDT and the other at 6:35 AM EDT but I see Yahoo > chose to post them in the reverse order -- So I'll address them in > their present order. Too bad about the most obvious stores for > carrying this product not having it, but at least you found it. Glad > to see you've already started treatment with it. Also nice to see that > you're prepared with a spare heater and filter. If this filter is not > cycled, just take some filter media from your established filter and > stuff it into this one. Fill the container with 1/2 water from his > tank and 1/2 water from the tap (treated); well, don't quite "fill" > it, unless you (preferably) have a clear top for it. Leave at least 4" > (5", if the container is deep enough) of space to help ensure he > doesn't jump out. Ray > > > > > > > > > > > > --- In AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com, "moiragrubb2000" > <moiragrubb2000@ ...> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > --- In AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com, "sevenspringss" > <sevenspringss@ > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > i have already started treatment and have upped the dosage today > believe it or not none of my local supermarkets sold this and tried 4 > pharmacys before finding this at s small chemist unbelievable i was > going to set up aclear storage box i had but wasnt as big as i thought > so sent hubby to get the biggest he can find and going to set it up > today i have got spare heater and filter refering bacck to my prev > post what water would you recommend i use mo > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Any supermarket or pharmacy has epsom salt, so you should have > been able to find it easily. Not all fish stores have it as it's not > necessarily an aquarium hobby related item. We only recommend it > knowing that it usually works as well on fish as a laxative as well as > it works on humans (in the form of Milk of Magnesia). > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > He may be rubbing his belly in attempts to dislodge the > blockage. While he may have internal bacteria or parasites, which > remains yet unseen, an attempt at treating him for intestinal blockage > should see improvement within 12 to 24 hours if that's the problem and > should be started ASAP if only to determine whether further steps may > be needed for treating possible internal pathogen issues. A fish of > 14" can go without eating for a month (six weeks, but that would be > stretching it to the point of probable no return), but then you did > say that he hasn't eaten for a little while now already. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > If it comes down to it, internal pathogen medications should > be done in isolation. Consider a cheap container of any type (doesn't > need to be an "aquarium") large enough to house either him or the > other fish to separate him for treating if it becomes necessary. At > such possible time, you will most probably need another heater for > this container, depending on your ambient temperatures. Ray > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > --- In AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com, "moiragrubb2000" > <moiragrubb2000@ > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > --- In AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com, "sevenspringss" > <sevenspringss@ > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ray i had a bit of bother getting epsom salts as lot of > shops dont sell it but got it today and is in tank would appreciate > your advice on whether i can treat tank with this in just worried that > maybe he got internal bacteria would i be able to put an internal > bacteria in tank or would i be better holding fire to see what happens > i notice that he seems to be rubbing his belly gently on the driftwood > that what it looks like anyway how long can a fish this size go > without eating mo > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Those measurements using Epsom Salt in amounts of water > are in U.S. Gallons. This often works and is sure worth a try. As you > have no other large tank to isolate either the Oscar or the Pleco, you > may try the treatment in your 70 Imperial Gallon (84 U.S, Gallon) > tank, starting out at half-strength (1 Tbp. per 10 U.S, Gallons). > Reports I've read indicate that Plecos will be fine at 1 Tbs. > (Tablespoon) of Epsom Salt per 5 U.S. gallons (and even more), but > it's always easier on any fish when introducing a foreign substance to > graduate it in increments over time. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Scale-less fish do not react to Epsom Salt (Magnesium > Sulfate) in as a severe manner as they do with the use of Table Salt > (Sodium Chloride), as it's the chloride the penetrates the skin with > burning/toxic results when using Table Salt, whereas Epsom Salt's > sulfate may promote irritation of the skin in higher concentrations. > As long as this concentration is kept low enough, it will not irritate > him. The 1 Tbs. per 10 U.S. gallons may be all that is necessary to > have a positive effect on your Oscar and is were I would start -- or > even less, but it's good to know it can be increased and still be safe > for the Pleco when kept below the afore-mentioned amount. As with any > unknown process in how it may effect a fish, it's best to observe for > stress in which case you may do a 1/3 PWC to decrease the > concentration should the need arise, although this should not be > necessary -- but just to know what can be done if needed. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Give the 1 Tbs per 10 U.S. gallons (or less) time (at > least 12 hours) to work before considering increasing the > concentration. Some hobbyists report success with smaller gut-blocked > fish with using as little as 1/8 tsp. per U.S. Gallon, but since other > reports indicate using as much as double the amount I've indicated, I > find these extremes of much less and much more to be excesses (too > little or too much) to one direction or the other to effect a > treatment. Ray > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > --- In AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com, "moiragrubb2000" > <moiragrubb2000@ > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > --- In AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com, "sevenspringss" > <sevenspringss@ > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > thanks ray were the measurements for epsom salts in imp > gallons or us gallons mo > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Unfortunately, there's no magic wand that goes along > with the epsom salt remedy for constipation in fish. It may take as > little as 12 hours, or it may take 24 or even more hours -- if it > works. As this is but one method of attepting a cure for intestinal > blockage, it may not even work in all cases, but it's a well-recognize > and old treatment towards effecting a cure. It's not 100% guaranteed, > but neither are green peas; although this can be tried whether or not > a fish is eating, whereas peas (often promoting bowel movements in > fish) has little hope if the fish isn't eating. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Percentage of water to take out? I'm guessing you mean > as the part of regular PWC (partial water changes) of normal aquarium > maintenance. Normally, hobbyists change from 1/4 to 1/3 of their tank > weekly, but this also depends on the bioload. You could try 15% to 20% > twice a week, testing as you go for the usual ammonia, nitrite and > nitrate parameters which we are trying to keep at safe levels when > doing these PWC's -- then go from there according to these tests > results, either increasing or decreasing as the case may be. If you > prefer doing smaller, more frequent PWC's, start off with 10% every > other day. Ray > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > --- In AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com, "moiragrubb2000" > <moiragrubb2000@ > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > --- In AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com, sevenspringss@ > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > my problem at the moment is isolating him how long > would the epsom salts take to work do you think . the longer he is > going without eating the more worried im getting could you also answer > my question on how much percent of water safe to take out if i was > doing 2 to 3 a week cheers mo > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Mo, At first thought, I too figured this problem > may have had something to > > > > > > > > > > > > > > do with the freeze dried food, but that seemed too > "obvious," so I was > > > > > > > > > > > > > > looking for possible water quality issues. You're > apparently maintaining this > > > > > > > > > > > > > > aquarium properly though, so we come right back to > this food. For treating > > > > > > > > > > > > > > with Epsom Salts, try using 1 Tbp per 5 gallons, > if it seems he's constipated > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -- and if you can isolate him. Pleco's don't like > too much table salt and > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I'm not sure if they take kindly to Epsom Salts > either. For treating initial > > > > > > > > > > > > > > stages of some internal issues, some hobbyists > increase the amount of Epsom > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Salts slowly to 1 tsp per gallon (or more) -- > that's 1 2/3 Tsp per 5 > > > > > > > > > > > > > > gallons -- but the fish must be observed that he > doesn't get stressed. Ray > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > > > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 43043	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 9/1/2009
Subject: Re: oscar ill

Mo, Re-post your dosages... or confirm what I am writing just to make sure there are not typos. You started off by saying "9 tbs" (tbs = tablespoons?) and at first I was thinking you meant tsp = teaspoons, but then you followed that with "8 tsp" but then you state a total of "11 tbs" but that would be equating "8 tsp" to be only 2 Tbsp whereas a level Tbsp is equal to 3 teaspoons so your total dosage, according to my calculations would be 11 2/3 Tbsp., so right now you are at 35 teaspoons in your 84G tank, or .416 teaspoons per gallon (U.S.) right now. Since Ray instructed to gradually raise the Epsom Salt level to 1 Tbsp (level tablespoon) per 5G (U.S.) (which would be equal to 6 teaspoons per 10G) and you have an 84G (U.S.) tank, that would be a total of 17 Tbsp. (for 85G U.S.)(which would be equal to 51 teaspoons). This would be equal to 6 teaspoons per 10G. I'm making these conversions so that you will be able to properly dose the replacement water for the Q-tank... and because, personally, I like using teaspoons per gallon or 10G rather than Tbsp per 5G for calculating and dosing. I've seen too many people (or maybe it's just me.. lol) get confused when trying to use the Tbsp measure for dosing their tanks... or even for cooking for that matter. :-P Since all of the fish in the main tank are now acclimated to this harder water, you would normally want to slowly lower the water back to normal but since you now plan to move the Oscar, you will want his new Q-tank to have at least half of his tank water and then move the Oscar to that 1/2 filled Q-tank. Then, prepare the water for topping off the Q-tank by using your dechlor and dosing that water to the same Epsom Salt level that is in the main tank now and then top off the Q-tank with that water. Then you can top off the main tank with normal dechlored water to start lowering the Epsom Salt level in that tank slowly back to normal. It will take several more 25% PWC's to get it completely back to normal. I'm presuming that the main tank will only lose around 25% or less of it's water volume when you use some of the main tank water in the Q-tank to fill it at least 1/2 way. You can easily use up to 25% of the main tank's water in the Q-tank so if it fills up the Q-tank even more than 1/2 way, that would be even better to keep the fish from having to deal with too much of a water change while it's dealing with all of the other changes. From now on, when dosing or keeping track of your dosages or posting them, do NOT mix Tbsp and tsp so you don't get mixed up with knowing the total volume or so that others do not inadvertently pick up the numbers wrong when replying. I've seen many of mixed up threads of advice being given in forums due to this problem. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of moiragrubb2000 Sent: Tuesday, September 01, 2009 10:04 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: oscar ill --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "sevenspringss" <sevenspringss@...> wrote: > ray just to double check before i set up tank my initialdose was 9 tbs followed by another 8 tsp this morning which was about 16 hours later that was 9am this morning bmt 7 hours ago so think thats roughly 11 tbs in tank so going by that would you reccommend using half his water or half another tanks water along side treated fresh water sorry for being a pain but just want to be sure im all ready to set it up had to go out earlier so couldnt answer your post at the time cheers mo > Yes, I don't know why yahoo posted them in the reverse order. Sorry it confused you. I thought it best to answer them in the order Yahoo posted them to prevent any confusion, as usually the messages are read from the top down (first one first) in your In Box. > > Anyway, in answer to the epsom salt, I see you've given the Oscar his > initial dosage. I still don't know what you've decided on giving him, > as the initial amount of this epsom salt dosage. In any event, it > shouldn't have any adverse effect on medications, that I can see, and > as I reminded you, the amount of epsom salt being used will be diluted > in half when you make up the water for the container. While on this > subject, I'd just like to clarify the statement I made about trying to > keep the osmotic pressure at a minimum. That should read read, to > keep the osmotic pressure difference at a minimum. Ray > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, moira grubb <moiragrubb2000@> wrote: > > > > > > cheers ray i did notice the messages were wrong way lol it caused me > > a bit of confusion  i take it the epsom salt wouldnt have an adverse > > effect on any medication  mo > > --- On Tue, 1/9/09, sevenspringss <sevenspringss@> wrote: > > > > From: sevenspringss <sevenspringss@> > > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: oscar ill > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > Date: Tuesday, 1 September, 2009, 12:12 PM > > > > > > > > > > > > > >   > > > > > > > > > > > > I've approved your last two messages in the order > > that you sent them, one at 4:25 AM EDT and the other at 6:35 AM EDT > > but I see Yahoo chose to post them in the reverse order -- So I'll > > address them in their present order. Too bad about the most obvious > > stores for carrying this product not having it, but at least you > > found it. Glad to see you've already started treatment with it. > > Also nice to see that you're prepared with a spare heater and > > filter. If this filter is not cycled, just take some filter media > > from your established filter and stuff it into this one. Fill the > > container with 1/2 water from his tank and 1/2 water from the tap > > (treated); well, don't quite "fill" it, unless you (preferably) have > > a clear top for it. Leave at least 4" (5", if the container is deep > > enough) of space to help ensure he doesn't jump out. Ray > > > > > > > > --- In AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com, "moiragrubb2000" <moiragrubb2000@ ...> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > --- In AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com, "sevenspringss" <sevenspringss@ > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > i have already started treatment and have upped the dosage today > > > believe it or not none of my local supermarkets sold this and > > > tried 4 pharmacys before finding this at s small chemist > > > unbelievable i was going to set up aclear storage box i had but > > > wasnt as big as i thought so sent hubby to get the biggest he can > > > find and going to set it up today i have got spare heater and > > > filter refering bacck to my prev post what water would you > > > recommend i use mo > > > > > > > > > > > Any supermarket or pharmacy has epsom salt, so you should have been able to find it easily. Not all fish stores have it as it's not necessarily an aquarium hobby related item. We only recommend it knowing that it usually works as well on fish as a laxative as well as it works on humans (in the form of Milk of Magnesia). > > > > > > > > > > > > He may be rubbing his belly in attempts to dislodge the blockage. While he may have internal bacteria or parasites, which remains yet unseen, an attempt at treating him for intestinal blockage should see improvement within 12 to 24 hours if that's the problem and should be started ASAP if only to determine whether further steps may be needed for treating possible internal pathogen issues. A fish of 14" can go without eating for a month (six weeks, but that would be stretching it to the point of probable no return), but then you did say that he hasn't eaten for a little while now already. > > > > > > > > > > > > If it comes down to it, internal pathogen medications should be > > > > done in isolation. Consider a cheap container of any type > > > > (doesn't need to be an "aquarium") large enough to house either > > > > him or the other fish to separate him for treating if it becomes > > > > necessary. At such possible time, you will most probably need > > > > another heater for this container, depending on your ambient > > > > temperatures. Ray > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > --- In AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com, "moiragrubb2000" <moiragrubb2000@ > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > --- In AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com, "sevenspringss" <sevenspringss@ > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ray i had a bit of bother getting epsom salts as lot of shops > > > > > dont sell it but got it today and is in tank would appreciate > > > > > your advice on whether i can treat tank with this in just > > > > > worried that maybe he got internal bacteria would i be able to > > > > > put an internal bacteria in tank or would i be better holding > > > > > fire to see what happens i notice that he seems to be rubbing > > > > > his belly gently on the driftwood that what it looks like > > > > > anyway how long can a fish this size go without eating mo > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Those measurements using Epsom Salt in amounts of water are in U.S. Gallons. This often works and is sure worth a try. As you have no other large tank to isolate either the Oscar or the Pleco, you may try the treatment in your 70 Imperial Gallon (84 U.S, Gallon) tank, starting out at half-strength (1 Tbp. per 10 U.S, Gallons). Reports I've read indicate that Plecos will be fine at 1 Tbs. (Tablespoon) of Epsom Salt per 5 U.S. gallons (and even more), but it's always easier on any fish when introducing a foreign substance to graduate it in increments over time. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Scale-less fish do not react to Epsom Salt (Magnesium Sulfate) in as a severe manner as they do with the use of Table Salt (Sodium Chloride), as it's the chloride the penetrates the skin with burning/toxic results when using Table Salt, whereas Epsom Salt's sulfate may promote irritation of the skin in higher concentrations. As long as this concentration is kept low enough, it will not irritate him. The 1 Tbs. per 10 U.S. gallons may be all that is necessary to have a positive effect on your Oscar and is were I would start -- or even less, but it's good to know it can be increased and still be safe for the Pleco when kept below the afore-mentioned amount. As with any unknown process in how it may effect a fish, it's best to observe for stress in which case you may do a 1/3 PWC to decrease the concentration should the need arise, although this should not be necessary -- but just to know what can be done if needed. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Give the 1 Tbs per 10 U.S. gallons (or less) time (at least > > > > > > 12 hours) to work before considering increasing the > > > > > > concentration. Some hobbyists report success with smaller > > > > > > gut-blocked fish with using as little as 1/8 tsp. per U.S. > > > > > > Gallon, but since other reports indicate using as much as > > > > > > double the amount I've indicated, I find these extremes of > > > > > > much less and much more to be excesses (too little or too > > > > > > much) to one direction or the other to effect a treatment. > > > > > > Ray > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > --- In AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com, "moiragrubb2000" <moiragrubb2000@ > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > --- In AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com, "sevenspringss" <sevenspringss@ > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > thanks ray were the measurements for epsom salts in imp > > > > > > > gallons or us gallons mo > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Unfortunately, there's no magic wand that goes along with the epsom salt remedy for constipation in fish. It may take as little as 12 hours, or it may take 24 or even more hours -- if it works. As this is but one method of attepting a cure for intestinal blockage, it may not even work in all cases, but it's a well-recognize and old treatment towards effecting a cure. It's not 100% guaranteed, but neither are green peas; although this can be tried whether or not a fish is eating, whereas peas (often promoting bowel movements in fish) has little hope if the fish isn't eating. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Percentage of water to take out? I'm guessing you mean > > > > > > > > as the part of regular PWC (partial water changes) of > > > > > > > > normal aquarium maintenance. Normally, hobbyists change > > > > > > > > from 1/4 to 1/3 of their tank weekly, but this also > > > > > > > > depends on the bioload. You could try 15% to 20% twice > > > > > > > > a week, testing as you go for the usual ammonia, nitrite > > > > > > > > and nitrate parameters which we are trying to keep at > > > > > > > > safe levels when doing these PWC's -- then go from there > > > > > > > > according to these tests results, either increasing or > > > > > > > > decreasing as the case may be. If you prefer doing > > > > > > > > smaller, more frequent PWC's, start off with 10% every > > > > > > > > other day. Ray > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > --- In AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com, "moiragrubb2000" <moiragrubb2000@ > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > --- In AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com, sevenspringss@ wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > my problem at the moment is isolating him how long > > > > > > > > > > would the epsom salts take to work do you think . > > > > > > > > > > the longer he is going without eating the more > > > > > > > > > > worried im getting could you also answer my question > > > > > > > > > > on how much percent of water safe to take out if i > > > > > > > > > > was doing 2 to 3 a week cheers mo > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Mo, At first thought, I too figured this problem may > > > > > > > > > > have had something to > > > > > > > > > > > > do with the freeze dried food, but that seemed too > > > > > > > > > > "obvious," so I was > > > > > > > > > > > > looking for possible water quality issues. You're > > > > > > > > > > apparently maintaining this > > > > > > > > > > > > aquarium properly though, so we come right back to > > > > > > > > > > this food. For treating > > > > > > > > > > > > with Epsom Salts, try using 1 Tbp per 5 gallons, if > > > > > > > > > > it seems he's constipated > > > > > > > > > > > > -- and if you can isolate him. Pleco's don't like > > > > > > > > > > too much table salt and > > > > > > > > > > > > I'm not sure if they take kindly to Epsom Salts > > > > > > > > > > either. For treating initial > > > > > > > > > > > > stages of some internal issues, some hobbyists > > > > > > > > > > increase the amount of Epsom > > > > > > > > > > > > Salts slowly to 1 tsp per gallon (or more) -- that's > > > > > > > > > > 1 2/3 Tsp per 5 > > > > > > > > > > > > gallons -- but the fish must be observed that he > > > > > > > > > > doesn't get stressed. Ray

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 43044	From: moiragrubb2000	Date: 9/1/2009
Subject: Re: oscar ill

--- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, Amber Berglund <arberglund@...> wrote: > sorry amber didnt read this properly snd just assumed it was ray answering > What size tank do you have again mo? I couldn't remember, and it'll be > needed to make sure your doses were right (I would assume so at least). > > Thanks, > Amber > > moiragrubb2000 wrote: > > > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>, "sevenspringss" > > <sevenspringss@> wrote: > > > > > ray just to double check before i set up tank my initialdose was 9 tbs > > followed by another 8 tsp this morning which was about 16 hours later > > that was 9am this morning bmt 7 hours ago so think thats roughly 11 > > tbs in tank so going by that would you reccommend using half his water > > or half another tanks water along side treated fresh water sorry for > > being a pain but just want to be sure im all ready to set it up had to > > go out earlier so couldnt answer your post at the time cheers mo > > > > > Yes, I don't know why yahoo posted them in the reverse order. Sorry > > it confused you. I thought it best to answer them in the order Yahoo > > posted them to prevent any confusion, as usually the messages are read > > from the top down (first one first) in your In Box. > > > > > > Anyway, in answer to the epsom salt, I see you've given the Oscar > > his initial dosage. I still don't know what you've decided on giving > > him, as the initial amount of this epsom salt dosage. In any event, it > > shouldn't have any adverse effect on medications, that I can see, and > > as I reminded you, the amount of epsom salt being used will be diluted > > in half when you make up the water for the container. While on this > > subject, I'd just like to clarify the statement I made about trying to > > keep the osmotic pressure at a minimum. That should read read, to keep > > the osmotic pressure difference at a minimum. Ray > > > > > > > > > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>, moira grubb <moiragrubb2000@> > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > cheers ray i did notice the messages were wrong way lol it caused > > me a bit of confusion i take it the epsom salt wouldnt have an > > adverse effect on any medication mo > > > > --- On Tue, 1/9/09, sevenspringss <sevenspringss@> wrote: > > > > > > > > From: sevenspringss <sevenspringss@> > > > > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: oscar ill > > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > Date: Tuesday, 1 September, 2009, 12:12 PM > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I've approved your last two messages in the order that you sent > > them, one at 4:25 AM EDT and the other at 6:35 AM EDT but I see Yahoo > > chose to post them in the reverse order -- So I'll address them in > > their present order. Too bad about the most obvious stores for > > carrying this product not having it, but at least you found it. Glad > > to see you've already started treatment with it. Also nice to see that > > you're prepared with a spare heater and filter. If this filter is not > > cycled, just take some filter media from your established filter and > > stuff it into this one. Fill the container with 1/2 water from his > > tank and 1/2 water from the tap (treated); well, don't quite "fill" > > it, unless you (preferably) have a clear top for it. Leave at least 4" > > (5", if the container is deep enough) of space to help ensure he > > doesn't jump out. Ray > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > --- In AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com, "moiragrubb2000" > > <moiragrubb2000@ ...> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > --- In AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com, "sevenspringss" > > <sevenspringss@ > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > i have already started treatment and have upped the dosage today > > believe it or not none of my local supermarkets sold this and tried 4 > > pharmacys before finding this at s small chemist unbelievable i was > > going to set up aclear storage box i had but wasnt as big as i thought > > so sent hubby to get the biggest he can find and going to set it up > > today i have got spare heater and filter refering bacck to my prev > > post what water would you recommend i use mo > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Any supermarket or pharmacy has epsom salt, so you should have > > been able to find it easily. Not all fish stores have it as it's not > > necessarily an aquarium hobby related item. We only recommend it > > knowing that it usually works as well on fish as a laxative as well as > > it works on humans (in the form of Milk of Magnesia). > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > He may be rubbing his belly in attempts to dislodge the > > blockage. While he may have internal bacteria or parasites, which > > remains yet unseen, an attempt at treating him for intestinal blockage > > should see improvement within 12 to 24 hours if that's the problem and > > should be started ASAP if only to determine whether further steps may > > be needed for treating possible internal pathogen issues. A fish of > > 14" can go without eating for a month (six weeks, but that would be > > stretching it to the point of probable no return), but then you did > > say that he hasn't eaten for a little while now already. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > If it comes down to it, internal pathogen medications should > > be done in isolation. Consider a cheap container of any type (doesn't > > need to be an "aquarium") large enough to house either him or the > > other fish to separate him for treating if it becomes necessary. At > > such possible time, you will most probably need another heater for > > this container, depending on your ambient temperatures. Ray > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > --- In AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com, "moiragrubb2000" > > <moiragrubb2000@ > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > --- In AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com, "sevenspringss" > > <sevenspringss@ > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ray i had a bit of bother getting epsom salts as lot of > > shops dont sell it but got it today and is in tank would appreciate > > your advice on whether i can treat tank with this in just worried that > > maybe he got internal bacteria would i be able to put an internal > > bacteria in tank or would i be better holding fire to see what happens > > i notice that he seems to be rubbing his belly gently on the driftwood > > that what it looks like anyway how long can a fish this size go > > without eating mo > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Those measurements using Epsom Salt in amounts of water > > are in U.S. Gallons. This often works and is sure worth a try. As you > > have no other large tank to isolate either the Oscar or the Pleco, you > > may try the treatment in your 70 Imperial Gallon (84 U.S, Gallon) > > tank, starting out at half-strength (1 Tbp. per 10 U.S, Gallons). > > Reports I've read indicate that Plecos will be fine at 1 Tbs. > > (Tablespoon) of Epsom Salt per 5 U.S. gallons (and even more), but > > it's always easier on any fish when introducing a foreign substance to > > graduate it in increments over time. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Scale-less fish do not react to Epsom Salt (Magnesium > > Sulfate) in as a severe manner as they do with the use of Table Salt > > (Sodium Chloride), as it's the chloride the penetrates the skin with > > burning/toxic results when using Table Salt, whereas Epsom Salt's > > sulfate may promote irritation of the skin in higher concentrations. > > As long as this concentration is kept low enough, it will not irritate > > him. The 1 Tbs. per 10 U.S. gallons may be all that is necessary to > > have a positive effect on your Oscar and is were I would start -- or > > even less, but it's good to know it can be increased and still be safe > > for the Pleco when kept below the afore-mentioned amount. As with any > > unknown process in how it may effect a fish, it's best to observe for > > stress in which case you may do a 1/3 PWC to decrease the > > concentration should the need arise, although this should not be > > necessary -- but just to know what can be done if needed. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Give the 1 Tbs per 10 U.S. gallons (or less) time (at > > least 12 hours) to work before considering increasing the > > concentration. Some hobbyists report success with smaller gut-blocked > > fish with using as little as 1/8 tsp. per U.S. Gallon, but since other > > reports indicate using as much as double the amount I've indicated, I > > find these extremes of much less and much more to be excesses (too > > little or too much) to one direction or the other to effect a > > treatment. Ray > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > --- In AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com, "moiragrubb2000" > > <moiragrubb2000@ > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > --- In AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com, "sevenspringss" > > <sevenspringss@ > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > thanks ray were the measurements for epsom salts in imp > > gallons or us gallons mo > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Unfortunately, there's no magic wand that goes along > > with the epsom salt remedy for constipation in fish. It may take as > > little as 12 hours, or it may take 24 or even more hours -- if it > > works. As this is but one method of attepting a cure for intestinal > > blockage, it may not even work in all cases, but it's a well-recognize > > and old treatment towards effecting a cure. It's not 100% guaranteed, > > but neither are green peas; although this can be tried whether or not > > a fish is eating, whereas peas (often promoting bowel movements in > > fish) has little hope if the fish isn't eating. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Percentage of water to take out? I'm guessing you mean > > as the part of regular PWC (partial water changes) of normal aquarium > > maintenance. Normally, hobbyists change from 1/4 to 1/3 of their tank > > weekly, but this also depends on the bioload. You could try 15% to 20% > > twice a week, testing as you go for the usual ammonia, nitrite and > > nitrate parameters which we are trying to keep at safe levels when > > doing these PWC's -- then go from there according to these tests > > results, either increasing or decreasing as the case may be. If you > > prefer doing smaller, more frequent PWC's, start off with 10% every > > other day. Ray > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > --- In AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com, "moiragrubb2000" > > <moiragrubb2000@ > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > --- In AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com, sevenspringss@ > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > my problem at the moment is isolating him how long > > would the epsom salts take to work do you think . the longer he is > > going without eating the more worried im getting could you also answer > > my question on how much percent of water safe to take out if i was > > doing 2 to 3 a week cheers mo > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Mo, At first thought, I too figured this problem > > may have had something to > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > do with the freeze dried food, but that seemed too > > "obvious," so I was > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > looking for possible water quality issues. You're > > apparently maintaining this > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > aquarium properly though, so we come right back to > > this food. For treating > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > with Epsom Salts, try using 1 Tbp per 5 gallons, > > if it seems he's constipated > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -- and if you can isolate him. Pleco's don't like > > too much table salt and > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I'm not sure if they take kindly to Epsom Salts > > either. For treating initial > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > stages of some internal issues, some hobbyists > > increase the amount of Epsom > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Salts slowly to 1 tsp per gallon (or more) -- > > that's 1 2/3 Tsp per 5 > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > gallons -- but the fish must be observed that he > > doesn't get stressed. Ray > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > > > > > > > > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 43045	From: moiragrubb2000	Date: 9/1/2009
Subject: Re: oscar ill

--- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, Amber Berglund <arberglund@...> wrote: > ok ray my tanks 70 imp gallon 84 us gallon the container ive bought is 80 litre roughly 17 imp gallons while im here if i go for medication would i go for internal bacteria or parasite a have both mo > What size tank do you have again mo? I couldn't remember, and it'll be > needed to make sure your doses were right (I would assume so at least). > > Thanks, > Amber > > moiragrubb2000 wrote: > > > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>, "sevenspringss" > > <sevenspringss@> wrote: > > > > > ray just to double check before i set up tank my initialdose was 9 tbs > > followed by another 8 tsp this morning which was about 16 hours later > > that was 9am this morning bmt 7 hours ago so think thats roughly 11 > > tbs in tank so going by that would you reccommend using half his water > > or half another tanks water along side treated fresh water sorry for > > being a pain but just want to be sure im all ready to set it up had to > > go out earlier so couldnt answer your post at the time cheers mo > > > > > Yes, I don't know why yahoo posted them in the reverse order. Sorry > > it confused you. I thought it best to answer them in the order Yahoo > > posted them to prevent any confusion, as usually the messages are read > > from the top down (first one first) in your In Box. > > > > > > Anyway, in answer to the epsom salt, I see you've given the Oscar > > his initial dosage. I still don't know what you've decided on giving > > him, as the initial amount of this epsom salt dosage. In any event, it > > shouldn't have any adverse effect on medications, that I can see, and > > as I reminded you, the amount of epsom salt being used will be diluted > > in half when you make up the water for the container. While on this > > subject, I'd just like to clarify the statement I made about trying to > > keep the osmotic pressure at a minimum. That should read read, to keep > > the osmotic pressure difference at a minimum. Ray > > > > > > > > > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>, moira grubb <moiragrubb2000@> > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > cheers ray i did notice the messages were wrong way lol it caused > > me a bit of confusion i take it the epsom salt wouldnt have an > > adverse effect on any medication mo > > > > --- On Tue, 1/9/09, sevenspringss <sevenspringss@> wrote: > > > > > > > > From: sevenspringss <sevenspringss@> > > > > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: oscar ill > > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > Date: Tuesday, 1 September, 2009, 12:12 PM > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I've approved your last two messages in the order that you sent > > them, one at 4:25 AM EDT and the other at 6:35 AM EDT but I see Yahoo > > chose to post them in the reverse order -- So I'll address them in > > their present order. Too bad about the most obvious stores for > > carrying this product not having it, but at least you found it. Glad > > to see you've already started treatment with it. Also nice to see that > > you're prepared with a spare heater and filter. If this filter is not > > cycled, just take some filter media from your established filter and > > stuff it into this one. Fill the container with 1/2 water from his > > tank and 1/2 water from the tap (treated); well, don't quite "fill" > > it, unless you (preferably) have a clear top for it. Leave at least 4" > > (5", if the container is deep enough) of space to help ensure he > > doesn't jump out. Ray > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > --- In AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com, "moiragrubb2000" > > <moiragrubb2000@ ...> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > --- In AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com, "sevenspringss" > > <sevenspringss@ > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > i have already started treatment and have upped the dosage today > > believe it or not none of my local supermarkets sold this and tried 4 > > pharmacys before finding this at s small chemist unbelievable i was > > going to set up aclear storage box i had but wasnt as big as i thought > > so sent hubby to get the biggest he can find and going to set it up > > today i have got spare heater and filter refering bacck to my prev > > post what water would you recommend i use mo > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Any supermarket or pharmacy has epsom salt, so you should have > > been able to find it easily. Not all fish stores have it as it's not > > necessarily an aquarium hobby related item. We only recommend it > > knowing that it usually works as well on fish as a laxative as well as > > it works on humans (in the form of Milk of Magnesia). > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > He may be rubbing his belly in attempts to dislodge the > > blockage. While he may have internal bacteria or parasites, which > > remains yet unseen, an attempt at treating him for intestinal blockage > > should see improvement within 12 to 24 hours if that's the problem and > > should be started ASAP if only to determine whether further steps may > > be needed for treating possible internal pathogen issues. A fish of > > 14" can go without eating for a month (six weeks, but that would be > > stretching it to the point of probable no return), but then you did > > say that he hasn't eaten for a little while now already. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > If it comes down to it, internal pathogen medications should > > be done in isolation. Consider a cheap container of any type (doesn't > > need to be an "aquarium") large enough to house either him or the > > other fish to separate him for treating if it becomes necessary. At > > such possible time, you will most probably need another heater for > > this container, depending on your ambient temperatures. Ray > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > --- In AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com, "moiragrubb2000" > > <moiragrubb2000@ > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > --- In AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com, "sevenspringss" > > <sevenspringss@ > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ray i had a bit of bother getting epsom salts as lot of > > shops dont sell it but got it today and is in tank would appreciate > > your advice on whether i can treat tank with this in just worried that > > maybe he got internal bacteria would i be able to put an internal > > bacteria in tank or would i be better holding fire to see what happens > > i notice that he seems to be rubbing his belly gently on the driftwood > > that what it looks like anyway how long can a fish this size go > > without eating mo > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Those measurements using Epsom Salt in amounts of water > > are in U.S. Gallons. This often works and is sure worth a try. As you > > have no other large tank to isolate either the Oscar or the Pleco, you > > may try the treatment in your 70 Imperial Gallon (84 U.S, Gallon) > > tank, starting out at half-strength (1 Tbp. per 10 U.S, Gallons). > > Reports I've read indicate that Plecos will be fine at 1 Tbs. > > (Tablespoon) of Epsom Salt per 5 U.S. gallons (and even more), but > > it's always easier on any fish when introducing a foreign substance to > > graduate it in increments over time. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Scale-less fish do not react to Epsom Salt (Magnesium > > Sulfate) in as a severe manner as they do with the use of Table Salt > > (Sodium Chloride), as it's the chloride the penetrates the skin with > > burning/toxic results when using Table Salt, whereas Epsom Salt's > > sulfate may promote irritation of the skin in higher concentrations. > > As long as this concentration is kept low enough, it will not irritate > > him. The 1 Tbs. per 10 U.S. gallons may be all that is necessary to > > have a positive effect on your Oscar and is were I would start -- or > > even less, but it's good to know it can be increased and still be safe > > for the Pleco when kept below the afore-mentioned amount. As with any > > unknown process in how it may effect a fish, it's best to observe for > > stress in which case you may do a 1/3 PWC to decrease the > > concentration should the need arise, although this should not be > > necessary -- but just to know what can be done if needed. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Give the 1 Tbs per 10 U.S. gallons (or less) time (at > > least 12 hours) to work before considering increasing the > > concentration. Some hobbyists report success with smaller gut-blocked > > fish with using as little as 1/8 tsp. per U.S. Gallon, but since other > > reports indicate using as much as double the amount I've indicated, I > > find these extremes of much less and much more to be excesses (too > > little or too much) to one direction or the other to effect a > > treatment. Ray > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > --- In AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com, "moiragrubb2000" > > <moiragrubb2000@ > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > --- In AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com, "sevenspringss" > > <sevenspringss@ > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > thanks ray were the measurements for epsom salts in imp > > gallons or us gallons mo > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Unfortunately, there's no magic wand that goes along > > with the epsom salt remedy for constipation in fish. It may take as > > little as 12 hours, or it may take 24 or even more hours -- if it > > works. As this is but one method of attepting a cure for intestinal > > blockage, it may not even work in all cases, but it's a well-recognize > > and old treatment towards effecting a cure. It's not 100% guaranteed, > > but neither are green peas; although this can be tried whether or not > > a fish is eating, whereas peas (often promoting bowel movements in > > fish) has little hope if the fish isn't eating. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Percentage of water to take out? I'm guessing you mean > > as the part of regular PWC (partial water changes) of normal aquarium > > maintenance. Normally, hobbyists change from 1/4 to 1/3 of their tank > > weekly, but this also depends on the bioload. You could try 15% to 20% > > twice a week, testing as you go for the usual ammonia, nitrite and > > nitrate parameters which we are trying to keep at safe levels when > > doing these PWC's -- then go from there according to these tests > > results, either increasing or decreasing as the case may be. If you > > prefer doing smaller, more frequent PWC's, start off with 10% every > > other day. Ray > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > --- In AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com, "moiragrubb2000" > > <moiragrubb2000@ > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > --- In AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com, sevenspringss@ > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > my problem at the moment is isolating him how long > > would the epsom salts take to work do you think . the longer he is > > going without eating the more worried im getting could you also answer > > my question on how much percent of water safe to take out if i was > > doing 2 to 3 a week cheers mo > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Mo, At first thought, I too figured this problem > > may have had something to > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > do with the freeze dried food, but that seemed too > > "obvious," so I was > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > looking for possible water quality issues. You're > > apparently maintaining this > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > aquarium properly though, so we come right back to > > this food. For treating > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > with Epsom Salts, try using 1 Tbp per 5 gallons, > > if it seems he's constipated > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -- and if you can isolate him. Pleco's don't like > > too much table salt and > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I'm not sure if they take kindly to Epsom Salts > > either. For treating initial > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > stages of some internal issues, some hobbyists > > increase the amount of Epsom > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Salts slowly to 1 tsp per gallon (or more) -- > > that's 1 2/3 Tsp per 5 > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > gallons -- but the fish must be observed that he > > doesn't get stressed. Ray > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > > > > > > > > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 43046	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 9/1/2009
Subject: Re: oscar ill

Uh oh Mo. Don't bring liters into the mix now. You know us crazy Americans like our Gallons. LOL Your 80 liter Q-tank would be equal to 21G (U.S.), figure 20G since you won't be filling it to the top. You should be able to remove the 20G from your 84G tank so the Oscar will at least have the exact same water parameters... then you just need to raise the Epsom Salt level in the Q-tank to the proper (final) level. See my previous post. And when you top off the 84G with just dechlored tap water, that would be like doing your first 25% PWC on it. You will still need to do about four more 25% PWC's to get that water mostly back to normal. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of moiragrubb2000 Sent: Tuesday, September 01, 2009 10:34 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: oscar ill --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, Amber Berglund <arberglund@...> wrote: > ok ray my tanks 70 imp gallon 84 us gallon the container ive bought is 80 litre roughly 17 imp gallons while im here if i go for medication would i go for internal bacteria or parasite a have both mo > What size tank do you have again mo? I couldn't remember, and it'll be > needed to make sure your doses were right (I would assume so at least). > > Thanks, > Amber > > moiragrubb2000 wrote: > > > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>, "sevenspringss" > > <sevenspringss@> wrote: > > > > > ray just to double check before i set up tank my initialdose was 9 > > tbs followed by another 8 tsp this morning which was about 16 hours > > later that was 9am this morning bmt 7 hours ago so think thats > > roughly 11 tbs in tank so going by that would you reccommend using > > half his water or half another tanks water along side treated fresh > > water sorry for being a pain but just want to be sure im all ready > > to set it up had to go out earlier so couldnt answer your post at > > the time cheers mo > > > > > Yes, I don't know why yahoo posted them in the reverse order. > > > Sorry > > it confused you. I thought it best to answer them in the order Yahoo > > posted them to prevent any confusion, as usually the messages are > > read from the top down (first one first) in your In Box. > > > > > > Anyway, in answer to the epsom salt, I see you've given the Oscar > > his initial dosage. I still don't know what you've decided on giving > > him, as the initial amount of this epsom salt dosage. In any event, > > it shouldn't have any adverse effect on medications, that I can see, > > and as I reminded you, the amount of epsom salt being used will be > > diluted in half when you make up the water for the container. While > > on this subject, I'd just like to clarify the statement I made about > > trying to keep the osmotic pressure at a minimum. That should read > > read, to keep the osmotic pressure difference at a minimum. Ray > > > > > > > > > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>, moira grubb > > <moiragrubb2000@> > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > cheers ray i did notice the messages were wrong way lol it > > > > caused > > me a bit of confusion i take it the epsom salt wouldnt have an > > adverse effect on any medication mo > > > > --- On Tue, 1/9/09, sevenspringss <sevenspringss@> wrote: > > > > > > > > From: sevenspringss <sevenspringss@> > > > > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: oscar ill > > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > Date: Tuesday, 1 September, 2009, 12:12 PM > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I've approved your last two messages in the order that you sent > > them, one at 4:25 AM EDT and the other at 6:35 AM EDT but I see > > Yahoo chose to post them in the reverse order -- So I'll address > > them in their present order. Too bad about the most obvious stores > > for carrying this product not having it, but at least you found it. > > Glad to see you've already started treatment with it. Also nice to > > see that you're prepared with a spare heater and filter. If this > > filter is not cycled, just take some filter media from your > > established filter and stuff it into this one. Fill the container > > with 1/2 water from his tank and 1/2 water from the tap (treated); well, don't quite "fill" > > it, unless you (preferably) have a clear top for it. Leave at least 4" > > (5", if the container is deep enough) of space to help ensure he > > doesn't jump out. Ray > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > --- In AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com, "moiragrubb2000" > > <moiragrubb2000@ ...> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > --- In AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com, "sevenspringss" > > <sevenspringss@ > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > i have already started treatment and have upped the dosage > > > > > today > > believe it or not none of my local supermarkets sold this and tried > > 4 pharmacys before finding this at s small chemist unbelievable i > > was going to set up aclear storage box i had but wasnt as big as i > > thought so sent hubby to get the biggest he can find and going to > > set it up today i have got spare heater and filter refering bacck to > > my prev post what water would you recommend i use mo > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Any supermarket or pharmacy has epsom salt, so you should > > > > > > have > > been able to find it easily. Not all fish stores have it as it's not > > necessarily an aquarium hobby related item. We only recommend it > > knowing that it usually works as well on fish as a laxative as well > > as it works on humans (in the form of Milk of Magnesia). > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > He may be rubbing his belly in attempts to dislodge the > > blockage. While he may have internal bacteria or parasites, which > > remains yet unseen, an attempt at treating him for intestinal > > blockage should see improvement within 12 to 24 hours if that's the > > problem and should be started ASAP if only to determine whether > > further steps may be needed for treating possible internal pathogen > > issues. A fish of 14" can go without eating for a month (six weeks, > > but that would be stretching it to the point of probable no return), > > but then you did say that he hasn't eaten for a little while now already. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > If it comes down to it, internal pathogen medications should > > be done in isolation. Consider a cheap container of any type > > (doesn't need to be an "aquarium") large enough to house either him > > or the other fish to separate him for treating if it becomes > > necessary. At such possible time, you will most probably need > > another heater for this container, depending on your ambient > > temperatures. Ray > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > --- In AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com, "moiragrubb2000" > > <moiragrubb2000@ > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > --- In AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com, "sevenspringss" > > <sevenspringss@ > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ray i had a bit of bother getting epsom salts as lot of > > shops dont sell it but got it today and is in tank would appreciate > > your advice on whether i can treat tank with this in just worried > > that maybe he got internal bacteria would i be able to put an > > internal bacteria in tank or would i be better holding fire to see > > what happens i notice that he seems to be rubbing his belly gently > > on the driftwood that what it looks like anyway how long can a fish > > this size go without eating mo > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Those measurements using Epsom Salt in amounts of water > > are in U.S. Gallons. This often works and is sure worth a try. As > > you have no other large tank to isolate either the Oscar or the > > Pleco, you may try the treatment in your 70 Imperial Gallon (84 U.S, > > Gallon) tank, starting out at half-strength (1 Tbp. per 10 U.S, Gallons). > > Reports I've read indicate that Plecos will be fine at 1 Tbs. > > (Tablespoon) of Epsom Salt per 5 U.S. gallons (and even more), but > > it's always easier on any fish when introducing a foreign substance > > to graduate it in increments over time. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Scale-less fish do not react to Epsom Salt (Magnesium > > Sulfate) in as a severe manner as they do with the use of Table Salt > > (Sodium Chloride), as it's the chloride the penetrates the skin with > > burning/toxic results when using Table Salt, whereas Epsom Salt's > > sulfate may promote irritation of the skin in higher concentrations. > > As long as this concentration is kept low enough, it will not > > irritate him. The 1 Tbs. per 10 U.S. gallons may be all that is > > necessary to have a positive effect on your Oscar and is were I > > would start -- or even less, but it's good to know it can be > > increased and still be safe for the Pleco when kept below the > > afore-mentioned amount. As with any unknown process in how it may > > effect a fish, it's best to observe for stress in which case you may > > do a 1/3 PWC to decrease the concentration should the need arise, > > although this should not be necessary -- but just to know what can be done if needed. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Give the 1 Tbs per 10 U.S. gallons (or less) time (at > > least 12 hours) to work before considering increasing the > > concentration. Some hobbyists report success with smaller > > gut-blocked fish with using as little as 1/8 tsp. per U.S. Gallon, > > but since other reports indicate using as much as double the amount > > I've indicated, I find these extremes of much less and much more to > > be excesses (too little or too much) to one direction or the other > > to effect a treatment. Ray > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > --- In AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com, "moiragrubb2000" > > <moiragrubb2000@ > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > --- In AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com, "sevenspringss" > > <sevenspringss@ > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > thanks ray were the measurements for epsom salts in > > > > > > > > > imp > > gallons or us gallons mo > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Unfortunately, there's no magic wand that goes along > > with the epsom salt remedy for constipation in fish. It may take as > > little as 12 hours, or it may take 24 or even more hours -- if it > > works. As this is but one method of attepting a cure for intestinal > > blockage, it may not even work in all cases, but it's a > > well-recognize and old treatment towards effecting a cure. It's not > > 100% guaranteed, but neither are green peas; although this can be > > tried whether or not a fish is eating, whereas peas (often promoting > > bowel movements in > > fish) has little hope if the fish isn't eating. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Percentage of water to take out? I'm guessing you > > > > > > > > > > mean > > as the part of regular PWC (partial water changes) of normal > > aquarium maintenance. Normally, hobbyists change from 1/4 to 1/3 of > > their tank weekly, but this also depends on the bioload. You could > > try 15% to 20% twice a week, testing as you go for the usual > > ammonia, nitrite and nitrate parameters which we are trying to keep > > at safe levels when doing these PWC's -- then go from there > > according to these tests results, either increasing or decreasing as > > the case may be. If you prefer doing smaller, more frequent PWC's, > > start off with 10% every other day. Ray > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > --- In AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com, "moiragrubb2000" > > <moiragrubb2000@ > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > --- In AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com, > > > > > > > > > > > sevenspringss@ > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > my problem at the moment is isolating him how > > > > > > > > > > > > long > > would the epsom salts take to work do you think . the longer he is > > going without eating the more worried im getting could you also > > answer my question on how much percent of water safe to take out if > > i was doing 2 to 3 a week cheers mo > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Mo, At first thought, I too figured this problem > > may have had something to > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > do with the freeze dried food, but that seemed > > > > > > > > > > > > too > > "obvious," so I was > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > looking for possible water quality issues. > > > > > > > > > > > > You're > > apparently maintaining this > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > aquarium properly though, so we come right back > > > > > > > > > > > > to > > this food. For treating > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > with Epsom Salts, try using 1 Tbp per 5 gallons, > > if it seems he's constipated > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -- and if you can isolate him. Pleco's don't > > > > > > > > > > > > like > > too much table salt and > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I'm not sure if they take kindly to Epsom Salts > > either. For treating initial > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > stages of some internal issues, some hobbyists > > increase the amount of Epsom > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Salts slowly to 1 tsp per gallon (or more) -- > > that's 1 2/3 Tsp per 5 > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > gallons -- but the fish must be observed that he > > doesn't get stressed. Ray

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 43047	From: moiragrubb2000	Date: 9/1/2009
Subject: Re: oscar ill

--- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@...> wrote: > lenny the only reason i used both was because ray did i dont know if u s calculations are different from british but our calc are 2tsp per dessert spoon and 2 dessert to a tbs which makes 4 tsp to a tbs i think ray probably used both to make raising the dose easier because i was treating the main tank he advised starting at 1 tablespoon per 10 us gallon then slowly raising it by 2 thirds of a teaspoonper 10 gallon this is all becoming a bit confusing and to make it worse i dont have a tbs so was using a dessert spoon so if i start again i initially put in 18 dessert spoons then added another 8teaspoons 16 hours later my head is starting to spin but i dont think ive went above the top dosage of 1 tbsp per 5 us gallons mo > Mo, > > Re-post your dosages... or confirm what I am writing just to make sure there > are not typos. You started off by saying "9 tbs" (tbs = tablespoons?) and > at first I was thinking you meant tsp = teaspoons, but then you followed > that with "8 tsp" but then you state a total of "11 tbs" but that would be > equating "8 tsp" to be only 2 Tbsp whereas a level Tbsp is equal to 3 > teaspoons so your total dosage, according to my calculations would be 11 2/3 > Tbsp., so right now you are at 35 teaspoons in your 84G tank, or .416 > teaspoons per gallon (U.S.) right now. > > Since Ray instructed to gradually raise the Epsom Salt level to 1 Tbsp > (level tablespoon) per 5G (U.S.) (which would be equal to 6 teaspoons per > 10G) and you have an 84G (U.S.) tank, that would be a total of 17 Tbsp. (for > 85G U.S.)(which would be equal to 51 teaspoons). This would be equal to 6 > teaspoons per 10G. I'm making these conversions so that you will be able to > properly dose the replacement water for the Q-tank... and because, > personally, I like using teaspoons per gallon or 10G rather than Tbsp per 5G > for calculating and dosing. I've seen too many people (or maybe it's just > me.. lol) get confused when trying to use the Tbsp measure for dosing their > tanks... or even for cooking for that matter. :-P > > Since all of the fish in the main tank are now acclimated to this harder > water, you would normally want to slowly lower the water back to normal but > since you now plan to move the Oscar, you will want his new Q-tank to have > at least half of his tank water and then move the Oscar to that 1/2 filled > Q-tank. Then, prepare the water for topping off the Q-tank by using your > dechlor and dosing that water to the same Epsom Salt level that is in the > main tank now and then top off the Q-tank with that water. > > Then you can top off the main tank with normal dechlored water to start > lowering the Epsom Salt level in that tank slowly back to normal. It will > take several more 25% PWC's to get it completely back to normal. I'm > presuming that the main tank will only lose around 25% or less of it's water > volume when you use some of the main tank water in the Q-tank to fill it at > least 1/2 way. You can easily use up to 25% of the main tank's water in the > Q-tank so if it fills up the Q-tank even more than 1/2 way, that would be > even better to keep the fish from having to deal with too much of a water > change while it's dealing with all of the other changes. > > From now on, when dosing or keeping track of your dosages or posting them, > do NOT mix Tbsp and tsp so you don't get mixed up with knowing the total > volume or so that others do not inadvertently pick up the numbers wrong when > replying. I've seen many of mixed up threads of advice being given in > forums due to this problem. > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right > side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) > > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On > Behalf Of moiragrubb2000 > Sent: Tuesday, September 01, 2009 10:04 AM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: oscar ill > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "sevenspringss" <sevenspringss@> > wrote: > > > ray just to double check before i set up tank my initialdose was 9 tbs > followed by another 8 tsp this morning which was about 16 hours later that > was 9am this morning bmt 7 hours ago so think thats roughly 11 tbs in tank > so going by that would you reccommend using half his water or half another > tanks water along side treated fresh water sorry for being a pain but just > want to be sure im all ready to set it up had to go out earlier so couldnt > answer your post at the time cheers mo > > > Yes, I don't know why yahoo posted them in the reverse order. Sorry it > confused you. I thought it best to answer them in the order Yahoo posted > them to prevent any confusion, as usually the messages are read from the top > down (first one first) in your In Box. > > > > Anyway, in answer to the epsom salt, I see you've given the Oscar his > > initial dosage. I still don't know what you've decided on giving him, > > as the initial amount of this epsom salt dosage. In any event, it > > shouldn't have any adverse effect on medications, that I can see, and > > as I reminded you, the amount of epsom salt being used will be diluted > > in half when you make up the water for the container. While on this > > subject, I'd just like to clarify the statement I made about trying to > > keep the osmotic pressure at a minimum. That should read read, to > > keep the osmotic pressure difference at a minimum. Ray > > > > > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, moira grubb <moiragrubb2000@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > cheers ray i did notice the messages were wrong way lol it caused me > > > a bit of confusion  i take it the epsom salt wouldnt have an adverse > > > effect on any medication  mo > > > --- On Tue, 1/9/09, sevenspringss <sevenspringss@> wrote: > > > > > > From: sevenspringss <sevenspringss@> > > > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: oscar ill > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > > Date: Tuesday, 1 September, 2009, 12:12 PM > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >   > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I've approved your last two messages in the order > > > that you sent them, one at 4:25 AM EDT and the other at 6:35 AM EDT > > > but I see Yahoo chose to post them in the reverse order -- So I'll > > > address them in their present order. Too bad about the most obvious > > > stores for carrying this product not having it, but at least you > > > found it. Glad to see you've already started treatment with it. > > > Also nice to see that you're prepared with a spare heater and > > > filter. If this filter is not cycled, just take some filter media > > > from your established filter and stuff it into this one. Fill the > > > container with 1/2 water from his tank and 1/2 water from the tap > > > (treated); well, don't quite "fill" it, unless you (preferably) have > > > a clear top for it. Leave at least 4" (5", if the container is deep > > > enough) of space to help ensure he doesn't jump out. Ray > > > > > > > > > > > > --- In AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com, "moiragrubb2000" <moiragrubb2000@ > ...> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > --- In AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com, "sevenspringss" <sevenspringss@ > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > i have already started treatment and have upped the dosage today > > > > believe it or not none of my local supermarkets sold this and > > > > tried 4 pharmacys before finding this at s small chemist > > > > unbelievable i was going to set up aclear storage box i had but > > > > wasnt as big as i thought so sent hubby to get the biggest he can > > > > find and going to set it up today i have got spare heater and > > > > filter refering bacck to my prev post what water would you > > > > recommend i use mo > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Any supermarket or pharmacy has epsom salt, so you should have been > able to find it easily. Not all fish stores have it as it's not necessarily > an aquarium hobby related item. We only recommend it knowing that it > usually works as well on fish as a laxative as well as it works on humans > (in the form of Milk of Magnesia). > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > He may be rubbing his belly in attempts to dislodge the blockage. > While he may have internal bacteria or parasites, which remains yet unseen, > an attempt at treating him for intestinal blockage should see improvement > within 12 to 24 hours if that's the problem and should be started ASAP if > only to determine whether further steps may be needed for treating possible > internal pathogen issues. A fish of 14" can go without eating for a month > (six weeks, but that would be stretching it to the point of probable no > return), but then you did say that he hasn't eaten for a little while now > already. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > If it comes down to it, internal pathogen medications should be > > > > > done in isolation. Consider a cheap container of any type > > > > > (doesn't need to be an "aquarium") large enough to house either > > > > > him or the other fish to separate him for treating if it becomes > > > > > necessary. At such possible time, you will most probably need > > > > > another heater for this container, depending on your ambient > > > > > temperatures. Ray > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > --- In AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com, "moiragrubb2000" > <moiragrubb2000@ > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > --- In AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com, "sevenspringss" > <sevenspringss@ > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ray i had a bit of bother getting epsom salts as lot of shops > > > > > > dont sell it but got it today and is in tank would appreciate > > > > > > your advice on whether i can treat tank with this in just > > > > > > worried that maybe he got internal bacteria would i be able to > > > > > > put an internal bacteria in tank or would i be better holding > > > > > > fire to see what happens i notice that he seems to be rubbing > > > > > > his belly gently on the driftwood that what it looks like > > > > > > anyway how long can a fish this size go without eating mo > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Those measurements using Epsom Salt in amounts of water are in > U.S. Gallons. This often works and is sure worth a try. As you have no > other large tank to isolate either the Oscar or the Pleco, you may try the > treatment in your 70 Imperial Gallon (84 U.S, Gallon) tank, starting out at > half-strength (1 Tbp. per 10 U.S, Gallons). Reports I've read indicate that > Plecos will be fine at 1 Tbs. (Tablespoon) of Epsom Salt per 5 U.S. gallons > (and even more), but it's always easier on any fish when introducing a > foreign substance to graduate it in increments over time. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Scale-less fish do not react to Epsom Salt (Magnesium Sulfate) > in as a severe manner as they do with the use of Table Salt (Sodium > Chloride), as it's the chloride the penetrates the skin with burning/toxic > results when using Table Salt, whereas Epsom Salt's sulfate may promote > irritation of the skin in higher concentrations. As long as this > concentration is kept low enough, it will not irritate him. The 1 Tbs. per > 10 U.S. gallons may be all that is necessary to have a positive effect on > your Oscar and is were I would start -- or even less, but it's good to know > it can be increased and still be safe for the Pleco when kept below the > afore-mentioned amount. As with any unknown process in how it may effect a > fish, it's best to observe for stress in which case you may do a 1/3 PWC to > decrease the concentration should the need arise, although this should not > be necessary -- but just to know what can be done if needed. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Give the 1 Tbs per 10 U.S. gallons (or less) time (at least > > > > > > > 12 hours) to work before considering increasing the > > > > > > > concentration. Some hobbyists report success with smaller > > > > > > > gut-blocked fish with using as little as 1/8 tsp. per U.S. > > > > > > > Gallon, but since other reports indicate using as much as > > > > > > > double the amount I've indicated, I find these extremes of > > > > > > > much less and much more to be excesses (too little or too > > > > > > > much) to one direction or the other to effect a treatment. > > > > > > > Ray > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > --- In AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com, "moiragrubb2000" > <moiragrubb2000@ > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > --- In AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com, "sevenspringss" > <sevenspringss@ > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > thanks ray were the measurements for epsom salts in imp > > > > > > > > gallons or us gallons mo > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Unfortunately, there's no magic wand that goes along with > the epsom salt remedy for constipation in fish. It may take as little as 12 > hours, or it may take 24 or even more hours -- if it works. As this is but > one method of attepting a cure for intestinal blockage, it may not even work > in all cases, but it's a well-recognize and old treatment towards effecting > a cure. It's not 100% guaranteed, but neither are green peas; although this > can be tried whether or not a fish is eating, whereas peas (often promoting > bowel movements in fish) has little hope if the fish isn't eating. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Percentage of water to take out? I'm guessing you mean > > > > > > > > > as the part of regular PWC (partial water changes) of > > > > > > > > > normal aquarium maintenance. Normally, hobbyists change > > > > > > > > > from 1/4 to 1/3 of their tank weekly, but this also > > > > > > > > > depends on the bioload. You could try 15% to 20% twice > > > > > > > > > a week, testing as you go for the usual ammonia, nitrite > > > > > > > > > and nitrate parameters which we are trying to keep at > > > > > > > > > safe levels when doing these PWC's -- then go from there > > > > > > > > > according to these tests results, either increasing or > > > > > > > > > decreasing as the case may be. If you prefer doing > > > > > > > > > smaller, more frequent PWC's, start off with 10% every > > > > > > > > > other day. Ray > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > --- In AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com, "moiragrubb2000" > <moiragrubb2000@ > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > --- In AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com, sevenspringss@ > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > my problem at the moment is isolating him how long > > > > > > > > > > > would the epsom salts take to work do you think . > > > > > > > > > > > the longer he is going without eating the more > > > > > > > > > > > worried im getting could you also answer my question > > > > > > > > > > > on how much percent of water safe to take out if i > > > > > > > > > > > was doing 2 to 3 a week cheers mo > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Mo, At first thought, I too figured this problem may > > > > > > > > > > > have had something to > > > > > > > > > > > > > > do with the freeze dried food, but that seemed too > > > > > > > > > > > "obvious," so I was > > > > > > > > > > > > > > looking for possible water quality issues. You're > > > > > > > > > > > apparently maintaining this > > > > > > > > > > > > > > aquarium properly though, so we come right back to > > > > > > > > > > > this food. For treating > > > > > > > > > > > > > > with Epsom Salts, try using 1 Tbp per 5 gallons, if > > > > > > > > > > > it seems he's constipated > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -- and if you can isolate him. Pleco's don't like > > > > > > > > > > > too much table salt and > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I'm not sure if they take kindly to Epsom Salts > > > > > > > > > > > either. For treating initial > > > > > > > > > > > > > > stages of some internal issues, some hobbyists > > > > > > > > > > > increase the amount of Epsom > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Salts slowly to 1 tsp per gallon (or more) -- that's > > > > > > > > > > > 1 2/3 Tsp per 5 > > > > > > > > > > > > > > gallons -- but the fish must be observed that he > > > > > > > > > > > doesn't get stressed. Ray >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 43048	From: sevenspringss	Date: 9/1/2009
Subject: Re: oscar ill

WHOA, WHOA, WHOA, WHOA -- Hold it up a minute!!! Talk about confusion, here's a case where two people (you and I) are giving Mo two different directions. It appears that you either haven't read my directions to Mo, or if you have, you must have misunderstood them -- or figure to give her your directions instead. I think if Mo is going to be able to followq this, we need to give her directions in unison. Oh, and as for confusion, I'm really confused now with Teaspoons. If we are to enter teaspoons into this, let's use both teaspoons and tablespoons -- this would serve as a check against each measurement too. Now, for starters, as I believe we all know, Mo's Oscar is presently being treated for an intestinal blockage (with epsom salt), in her 84 U.S. Gallon tank with the other fish in with it. Hopefully, while she is setting up this 21 U.S. gallon container for possible further treatment, let's hope she won't need it. IF she does need it, it will only be because it has been determined that there is no internal blockage (unless the epsom salt isn't working) -- but she will be transferring the Oscar to this smaller container ONLY to treat it with medications. At that time, I told her to reduce the present quantity of epsom salt by half, when setting up the container -- by using 1/2 tank water from the 84 U.S. Gallon and 1/2 tap water (treated). We don't need full strength epsom salt in the container when treating with medications, yet of course, we do not want to suddenly reduce the amount of epsom salt to 0.0. Ray --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@...> wrote: > > Uh oh Mo. Don't bring liters into the mix now. You know us crazy Americans > like our Gallons. LOL > > Your 80 liter Q-tank would be equal to 21G (U.S.), figure 20G since you > won't be filling it to the top. You should be able to remove the 20G from > your 84G tank so the Oscar will at least have the exact same water > parameters... then you just need to raise the Epsom Salt level in the Q-tank > to the proper (final) level. See my previous post. > > And when you top off the 84G with just dechlored tap water, that would be > like doing your first 25% PWC on it. You will still need to do about four > more 25% PWC's to get that water mostly back to normal. > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right > side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) > > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On > Behalf Of moiragrubb2000 > Sent: Tuesday, September 01, 2009 10:34 AM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: oscar ill > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, Amber Berglund <arberglund@> wrote: > > > ok ray my tanks 70 imp gallon 84 us gallon the container ive bought is 80 > litre roughly 17 imp gallons while im here if i go for medication would i go > for internal bacteria or parasite a have both mo > > > What size tank do you have again mo? I couldn't remember, and it'll be > > needed to make sure your doses were right (I would assume so at least). > > > > Thanks, > > Amber > > > > moiragrubb2000 wrote: > > > > > > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>, "sevenspringss" > > > <sevenspringss@> wrote: > > > > > > > ray just to double check before i set up tank my initialdose was 9 > > > tbs followed by another 8 tsp this morning which was about 16 hours > > > later that was 9am this morning bmt 7 hours ago so think thats > > > roughly 11 tbs in tank so going by that would you reccommend using > > > half his water or half another tanks water along side treated fresh > > > water sorry for being a pain but just want to be sure im all ready > > > to set it up had to go out earlier so couldnt answer your post at > > > the time cheers mo > > > > > > > Yes, I don't know why yahoo posted them in the reverse order. > > > > Sorry > > > it confused you. I thought it best to answer them in the order Yahoo > > > posted them to prevent any confusion, as usually the messages are > > > read from the top down (first one first) in your In Box. > > > > > > > > Anyway, in answer to the epsom salt, I see you've given the Oscar > > > his initial dosage. I still don't know what you've decided on giving > > > him, as the initial amount of this epsom salt dosage. In any event, > > > it shouldn't have any adverse effect on medications, that I can see, > > > and as I reminded you, the amount of epsom salt being used will be > > > diluted in half when you make up the water for the container. While > > > on this subject, I'd just like to clarify the statement I made about > > > trying to keep the osmotic pressure at a minimum. That should read > > > read, to keep the osmotic pressure difference at a minimum. Ray > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>, moira grubb > > > <moiragrubb2000@> > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > cheers ray i did notice the messages were wrong way lol it > > > > > caused > > > me a bit of confusion i take it the epsom salt wouldnt have an > > > adverse effect on any medication mo > > > > > --- On Tue, 1/9/09, sevenspringss <sevenspringss@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > From: sevenspringss <sevenspringss@> > > > > > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: oscar ill > > > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > Date: Tuesday, 1 September, 2009, 12:12 PM > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I've approved your last two messages in the order that you sent > > > them, one at 4:25 AM EDT and the other at 6:35 AM EDT but I see > > > Yahoo chose to post them in the reverse order -- So I'll address > > > them in their present order. Too bad about the most obvious stores > > > for carrying this product not having it, but at least you found it. > > > Glad to see you've already started treatment with it. Also nice to > > > see that you're prepared with a spare heater and filter. If this > > > filter is not cycled, just take some filter media from your > > > established filter and stuff it into this one. Fill the container > > > with 1/2 water from his tank and 1/2 water from the tap (treated); well, > don't quite "fill" > > > it, unless you (preferably) have a clear top for it. Leave at least 4" > > > (5", if the container is deep enough) of space to help ensure he > > > doesn't jump out. Ray > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > --- In AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com, "moiragrubb2000" > > > <moiragrubb2000@ ...> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > --- In AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com, "sevenspringss" > > > <sevenspringss@ > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > i have already started treatment and have upped the dosage > > > > > > today > > > believe it or not none of my local supermarkets sold this and tried > > > 4 pharmacys before finding this at s small chemist unbelievable i > > > was going to set up aclear storage box i had but wasnt as big as i > > > thought so sent hubby to get the biggest he can find and going to > > > set it up today i have got spare heater and filter refering bacck to > > > my prev post what water would you recommend i use mo > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Any supermarket or pharmacy has epsom salt, so you should > > > > > > > have > > > been able to find it easily. Not all fish stores have it as it's not > > > necessarily an aquarium hobby related item. We only recommend it > > > knowing that it usually works as well on fish as a laxative as well > > > as it works on humans (in the form of Milk of Magnesia). > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > He may be rubbing his belly in attempts to dislodge the > > > blockage. While he may have internal bacteria or parasites, which > > > remains yet unseen, an attempt at treating him for intestinal > > > blockage should see improvement within 12 to 24 hours if that's the > > > problem and should be started ASAP if only to determine whether > > > further steps may be needed for treating possible internal pathogen > > > issues. A fish of 14" can go without eating for a month (six weeks, > > > but that would be stretching it to the point of probable no return), > > > but then you did say that he hasn't eaten for a little while now > already. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > If it comes down to it, internal pathogen medications should > > > be done in isolation. Consider a cheap container of any type > > > (doesn't need to be an "aquarium") large enough to house either him > > > or the other fish to separate him for treating if it becomes > > > necessary. At such possible time, you will most probably need > > > another heater for this container, depending on your ambient > > > temperatures. Ray > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > --- In AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com, "moiragrubb2000" > > > <moiragrubb2000@ > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > --- In AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com, "sevenspringss" > > > <sevenspringss@ > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ray i had a bit of bother getting epsom salts as lot of > > > shops dont sell it but got it today and is in tank would appreciate > > > your advice on whether i can treat tank with this in just worried > > > that maybe he got internal bacteria would i be able to put an > > > internal bacteria in tank or would i be better holding fire to see > > > what happens i notice that he seems to be rubbing his belly gently > > > on the driftwood that what it looks like anyway how long can a fish > > > this size go without eating mo > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Those measurements using Epsom Salt in amounts of water > > > are in U.S. Gallons. This often works and is sure worth a try. As > > > you have no other large tank to isolate either the Oscar or the > > > Pleco, you may try the treatment in your 70 Imperial Gallon (84 U.S, > > > Gallon) tank, starting out at half-strength (1 Tbp. per 10 U.S, > Gallons). > > > Reports I've read indicate that Plecos will be fine at 1 Tbs. > > > (Tablespoon) of Epsom Salt per 5 U.S. gallons (and even more), but > > > it's always easier on any fish when introducing a foreign substance > > > to graduate it in increments over time. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Scale-less fish do not react to Epsom Salt (Magnesium > > > Sulfate) in as a severe manner as they do with the use of Table Salt > > > (Sodium Chloride), as it's the chloride the penetrates the skin with > > > burning/toxic results when using Table Salt, whereas Epsom Salt's > > > sulfate may promote irritation of the skin in higher concentrations. > > > As long as this concentration is kept low enough, it will not > > > irritate him. The 1 Tbs. per 10 U.S. gallons may be all that is > > > necessary to have a positive effect on your Oscar and is were I > > > would start -- or even less, but it's good to know it can be > > > increased and still be safe for the Pleco when kept below the > > > afore-mentioned amount. As with any unknown process in how it may > > > effect a fish, it's best to observe for stress in which case you may > > > do a 1/3 PWC to decrease the concentration should the need arise, > > > although this should not be necessary -- but just to know what can be > done if needed. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Give the 1 Tbs per 10 U.S. gallons (or less) time (at > > > least 12 hours) to work before considering increasing the > > > concentration. Some hobbyists report success with smaller > > > gut-blocked fish with using as little as 1/8 tsp. per U.S. Gallon, > > > but since other reports indicate using as much as double the amount > > > I've indicated, I find these extremes of much less and much more to > > > be excesses (too little or too much) to one direction or the other > > > to effect a treatment. Ray > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > --- In AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com, "moiragrubb2000" > > > <moiragrubb2000@ > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > --- In AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com, "sevenspringss" > > > <sevenspringss@ > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > thanks ray were the measurements for epsom salts in > > > > > > > > > > imp > > > gallons or us gallons mo > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Unfortunately, there's no magic wand that goes along > > > with the epsom salt remedy for constipation in fish. It may take as > > > little as 12 hours, or it may take 24 or even more hours -- if it > > > works. As this is but one method of attepting a cure for intestinal > > > blockage, it may not even work in all cases, but it's a > > > well-recognize and old treatment towards effecting a cure. It's not > > > 100% guaranteed, but neither are green peas; although this can be > > > tried whether or not a fish is eating, whereas peas (often promoting > > > bowel movements in > > > fish) has little hope if the fish isn't eating. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Percentage of water to take out? I'm guessing you > > > > > > > > > > > mean > > > as the part of regular PWC (partial water changes) of normal > > > aquarium maintenance. Normally, hobbyists change from 1/4 to 1/3 of > > > their tank weekly, but this also depends on the bioload. You could > > > try 15% to 20% twice a week, testing as you go for the usual > > > ammonia, nitrite and nitrate parameters which we are trying to keep > > > at safe levels when doing these PWC's -- then go from there > > > according to these tests results, either increasing or decreasing as > > > the case may be. If you prefer doing smaller, more frequent PWC's, > > > start off with 10% every other day. Ray > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > --- In AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com, "moiragrubb2000" > > > <moiragrubb2000@ > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > --- In AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com, > > > > > > > > > > > > sevenspringss@ > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > my problem at the moment is isolating him how > > > > > > > > > > > > > long > > > would the epsom salts take to work do you think . the longer he is > > > going without eating the more worried im getting could you also > > > answer my question on how much percent of water safe to take out if > > > i was doing 2 to 3 a week cheers mo > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Mo, At first thought, I too figured this problem > > > may have had something to > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > do with the freeze dried food, but that seemed > > > > > > > > > > > > > too > > > "obvious," so I was > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > looking for possible water quality issues. > > > > > > > > > > > > > You're > > > apparently maintaining this > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > aquarium properly though, so we come right back > > > > > > > > > > > > > to > > > this food. For treating > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > with Epsom Salts, try using 1 Tbp per 5 gallons, > > > if it seems he's constipated > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -- and if you can isolate him. Pleco's don't > > > > > > > > > > > > > like > > > too much table salt and > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I'm not sure if they take kindly to Epsom Salts > > > either. For treating initial > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > stages of some internal issues, some hobbyists > > > increase the amount of Epsom > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Salts slowly to 1 tsp per gallon (or more) -- > > > that's 1 2/3 Tsp per 5 > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > gallons -- but the fish must be observed that he > > > doesn't get stressed. Ray >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 43049	From: sevenspringss	Date: 9/1/2009
Subject: Re: oscar ill

Mo, I'm sorry to say, but I didn't give you ANY directions with teaspoons. As it's alway much easier to follow, it'a always a good idea to remain consistent. The directions I gave you were in in Tbs (Tablespoons). From now on, I'll spell it out each time. By using teaspoons instead of Tablespoons, you've used far less epsom salt this second time than was intended (and needed). Go back and figure that amount in Tbs (Tablespoons) in place of the teaspoons you've used, and add in the difference. Ray --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "moiragrubb2000" <moiragrubb2000@...> wrote: > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@> wrote: > > > lenny the only reason i used both was because ray did i dont know if u s calculations are different from british but our calc are 2tsp per dessert spoon and 2 dessert to a tbs which makes 4 tsp to a tbs i think ray probably used both to make raising the dose easier because i was treating the main tank he advised starting at 1 tablespoon per 10 us gallon then slowly raising it by 2 thirds of a teaspoonper 10 gallon this is all becoming a bit confusing and to make it worse i dont have a tbs so was using a dessert spoon so if i start again i initially put in 18 dessert spoons then added another 8teaspoons 16 hours later my head is starting to spin but i dont think ive went above the top dosage of 1 tbsp per 5 us gallons mo > > > Mo, > > > > Re-post your dosages... or confirm what I am writing just to make sure there > > are not typos. You started off by saying "9 tbs" (tbs = tablespoons?) and > > at first I was thinking you meant tsp = teaspoons, but then you followed > > that with "8 tsp" but then you state a total of "11 tbs" but that would be > > equating "8 tsp" to be only 2 Tbsp whereas a level Tbsp is equal to 3 > > teaspoons so your total dosage, according to my calculations would be 11 2/3 > > Tbsp., so right now you are at 35 teaspoons in your 84G tank, or .416 > > teaspoons per gallon (U.S.) right now. > > > > Since Ray instructed to gradually raise the Epsom Salt level to 1 Tbsp > > (level tablespoon) per 5G (U.S.) (which would be equal to 6 teaspoons per > > 10G) and you have an 84G (U.S.) tank, that would be a total of 17 Tbsp. (for > > 85G U.S.)(which would be equal to 51 teaspoons). This would be equal to 6 > > teaspoons per 10G. I'm making these conversions so that you will be able to > > properly dose the replacement water for the Q-tank... and because, > > personally, I like using teaspoons per gallon or 10G rather than Tbsp per 5G > > for calculating and dosing. I've seen too many people (or maybe it's just > > me.. lol) get confused when trying to use the Tbsp measure for dosing their > > tanks... or even for cooking for that matter. :-P > > > > Since all of the fish in the main tank are now acclimated to this harder > > water, you would normally want to slowly lower the water back to normal but > > since you now plan to move the Oscar, you will want his new Q-tank to have > > at least half of his tank water and then move the Oscar to that 1/2 filled > > Q-tank. Then, prepare the water for topping off the Q-tank by using your > > dechlor and dosing that water to the same Epsom Salt level that is in the > > main tank now and then top off the Q-tank with that water. > > > > Then you can top off the main tank with normal dechlored water to start > > lowering the Epsom Salt level in that tank slowly back to normal. It will > > take several more 25% PWC's to get it completely back to normal. I'm > > presuming that the main tank will only lose around 25% or less of it's water > > volume when you use some of the main tank water in the Q-tank to fill it at > > least 1/2 way. You can easily use up to 25% of the main tank's water in the > > Q-tank so if it fills up the Q-tank even more than 1/2 way, that would be > > even better to keep the fish from having to deal with too much of a water > > change while it's dealing with all of the other changes. > > > > From now on, when dosing or keeping track of your dosages or posting them, > > do NOT mix Tbsp and tsp so you don't get mixed up with knowing the total > > volume or so that others do not inadvertently pick up the numbers wrong when > > replying. I've seen many of mixed up threads of advice being given in > > forums due to this problem. > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > > (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right > > side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) > > > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On > > Behalf Of moiragrubb2000 > > Sent: Tuesday, September 01, 2009 10:04 AM > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: oscar ill > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "sevenspringss" <sevenspringss@> > > wrote: > > > > > ray just to double check before i set up tank my initialdose was 9 tbs > > followed by another 8 tsp this morning which was about 16 hours later that > > was 9am this morning bmt 7 hours ago so think thats roughly 11 tbs in tank > > so going by that would you reccommend using half his water or half another > > tanks water along side treated fresh water sorry for being a pain but just > > want to be sure im all ready to set it up had to go out earlier so couldnt > > answer your post at the time cheers mo > > > > > Yes, I don't know why yahoo posted them in the reverse order. Sorry it > > confused you. I thought it best to answer them in the order Yahoo posted > > them to prevent any confusion, as usually the messages are read from the top > > down (first one first) in your In Box. > > > > > > Anyway, in answer to the epsom salt, I see you've given the Oscar his > > > initial dosage. I still don't know what you've decided on giving him, > > > as the initial amount of this epsom salt dosage. In any event, it > > > shouldn't have any adverse effect on medications, that I can see, and > > > as I reminded you, the amount of epsom salt being used will be diluted > > > in half when you make up the water for the container. While on this > > > subject, I'd just like to clarify the statement I made about trying to > > > keep the osmotic pressure at a minimum. That should read read, to > > > keep the osmotic pressure difference at a minimum. Ray > > > > > > > > > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, moira grubb <moiragrubb2000@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > cheers ray i did notice the messages were wrong way lol it caused me > > > > a bit of confusion  i take it the epsom salt wouldnt have an adverse > > > > effect on any medication  mo > > > > --- On Tue, 1/9/09, sevenspringss <sevenspringss@> wrote: > > > > > > > > From: sevenspringss <sevenspringss@> > > > > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: oscar ill > > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > > > Date: Tuesday, 1 September, 2009, 12:12 PM > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >   > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I've approved your last two messages in the order > > > > that you sent them, one at 4:25 AM EDT and the other at 6:35 AM EDT > > > > but I see Yahoo chose to post them in the reverse order -- So I'll > > > > address them in their present order. Too bad about the most obvious > > > > stores for carrying this product not having it, but at least you > > > > found it. Glad to see you've already started treatment with it. > > > > Also nice to see that you're prepared with a spare heater and > > > > filter. If this filter is not cycled, just take some filter media > > > > from your established filter and stuff it into this one. Fill the > > > > container with 1/2 water from his tank and 1/2 water from the tap > > > > (treated); well, don't quite "fill" it, unless you (preferably) have > > > > a clear top for it. Leave at least 4" (5", if the container is deep > > > > enough) of space to help ensure he doesn't jump out. Ray > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > --- In AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com, "moiragrubb2000" <moiragrubb2000@ > > ...> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > --- In AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com, "sevenspringss" <sevenspringss@ > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > i have already started treatment and have upped the dosage today > > > > > believe it or not none of my local supermarkets sold this and > > > > > tried 4 pharmacys before finding this at s small chemist > > > > > unbelievable i was going to set up aclear storage box i had but > > > > > wasnt as big as i thought so sent hubby to get the biggest he can > > > > > find and going to set it up today i have got spare heater and > > > > > filter refering bacck to my prev post what water would you > > > > > recommend i use mo > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Any supermarket or pharmacy has epsom salt, so you should have been > > able to find it easily. Not all fish stores have it as it's not necessarily > > an aquarium hobby related item. We only recommend it knowing that it > > usually works as well on fish as a laxative as well as it works on humans > > (in the form of Milk of Magnesia). > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > He may be rubbing his belly in attempts to dislodge the blockage. > > While he may have internal bacteria or parasites, which remains yet unseen, > > an attempt at treating him for intestinal blockage should see improvement > > within 12 to 24 hours if that's the problem and should be started ASAP if > > only to determine whether further steps may be needed for treating possible > > internal pathogen issues. A fish of 14" can go without eating for a month > > (six weeks, but that would be stretching it to the point of probable no > > return), but then you did say that he hasn't eaten for a little while now > > already. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > If it comes down to it, internal pathogen medications should be > > > > > > done in isolation. Consider a cheap container of any type > > > > > > (doesn't need to be an "aquarium") large enough to house either > > > > > > him or the other fish to separate him for treating if it becomes > > > > > > necessary. At such possible time, you will most probably need > > > > > > another heater for this container, depending on your ambient > > > > > > temperatures. Ray > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > --- In AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com, "moiragrubb2000" > > <moiragrubb2000@ > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > --- In AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com, "sevenspringss" > > <sevenspringss@ > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ray i had a bit of bother getting epsom salts as lot of shops > > > > > > > dont sell it but got it today and is in tank would appreciate > > > > > > > your advice on whether i can treat tank with this in just > > > > > > > worried that maybe he got internal bacteria would i be able to > > > > > > > put an internal bacteria in tank or would i be better holding > > > > > > > fire to see what happens i notice that he seems to be rubbing > > > > > > > his belly gently on the driftwood that what it looks like > > > > > > > anyway how long can a fish this size go without eating mo > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Those measurements using Epsom Salt in amounts of water are in > > U.S. Gallons. This often works and is sure worth a try. As you have no > > other large tank to isolate either the Oscar or the Pleco, you may try the > > treatment in your 70 Imperial Gallon (84 U.S, Gallon) tank, starting out at > > half-strength (1 Tbp. per 10 U.S, Gallons). Reports I've read indicate that > > Plecos will be fine at 1 Tbs. (Tablespoon) of Epsom Salt per 5 U.S. gallons > > (and even more), but it's always easier on any fish when introducing a > > foreign substance to graduate it in increments over time. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Scale-less fish do not react to Epsom Salt (Magnesium Sulfate) > > in as a severe manner as they do with the use of Table Salt (Sodium > > Chloride), as it's the chloride the penetrates the skin with burning/toxic > > results when using Table Salt, whereas Epsom Salt's sulfate may promote > > irritation of the skin in higher concentrations. As long as this > > concentration is kept low enough, it will not irritate him. The 1 Tbs. per > > 10 U.S. gallons may be all that is necessary to have a positive effect on > > your Oscar and is were I would start -- or even less, but it's good to know > > it can be increased and still be safe for the Pleco when kept below the > > afore-mentioned amount. As with any unknown process in how it may effect a > > fish, it's best to observe for stress in which case you may do a 1/3 PWC to > > decrease the concentration should the need arise, although this should not > > be necessary -- but just to know what can be done if needed. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Give the 1 Tbs per 10 U.S. gallons (or less) time (at least > > > > > > > > 12 hours) to work before considering increasing the > > > > > > > > concentration. Some hobbyists report success with smaller > > > > > > > > gut-blocked fish with using as little as 1/8 tsp. per U.S. > > > > > > > > Gallon, but since other reports indicate using as much as > > > > > > > > double the amount I've indicated, I find these extremes of > > > > > > > > much less and much more to be excesses (too little or too > > > > > > > > much) to one direction or the other to effect a treatment. > > > > > > > > Ray > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > --- In AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com, "moiragrubb2000" > > <moiragrubb2000@ > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > --- In AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com, "sevenspringss" > > <sevenspringss@ > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > thanks ray were the measurements for epsom salts in imp > > > > > > > > > gallons or us gallons mo > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Unfortunately, there's no magic wand that goes along with > > the epsom salt remedy for constipation in fish. It may take as little as 12 > > hours, or it may take 24 or even more hours -- if it works. As this is but > > one method of attepting a cure for intestinal blockage, it may not even work > > in all cases, but it's a well-recognize and old treatment towards effecting > > a cure. It's not 100% guaranteed, but neither are green peas; although this > > can be tried whether or not a fish is eating, whereas peas (often promoting > > bowel movements in fish) has little hope if the fish isn't eating. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Percentage of water to take out? I'm guessing you mean > > > > > > > > > > as the part of regular PWC (partial water changes) of > > > > > > > > > > normal aquarium maintenance. Normally, hobbyists change > > > > > > > > > > from 1/4 to 1/3 of their tank weekly, but this also > > > > > > > > > > depends on the bioload. You could try 15% to 20% twice > > > > > > > > > > a week, testing as you go for the usual ammonia, nitrite > > > > > > > > > > and nitrate parameters which we are trying to keep at > > > > > > > > > > safe levels when doing these PWC's -- then go from there > > > > > > > > > > according to these tests results, either increasing or > > > > > > > > > > decreasing as the case may be. If you prefer doing > > > > > > > > > > smaller, more frequent PWC's, start off with 10% every > > > > > > > > > > other day. Ray > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > --- In AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com, "moiragrubb2000" > > <moiragrubb2000@ > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > --- In AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com, sevenspringss@ > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > my problem at the moment is isolating him how long > > > > > > > > > > > > would the epsom salts take to work do you think . > > > > > > > > > > > > the longer he is going without eating the more > > > > > > > > > > > > worried im getting could you also answer my question > > > > > > > > > > > > on how much percent of water safe to take out if i > > > > > > > > > > > > was doing 2 to 3 a week cheers mo > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Mo, At first thought, I too figured this problem may > > > > > > > > > > > > have had something to > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > do with the freeze dried food, but that seemed too > > > > > > > > > > > > "obvious," so I was > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > looking for possible water quality issues. You're > > > > > > > > > > > > apparently maintaining this > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > aquarium properly though, so we come right back to > > > > > > > > > > > > this food. For treating > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > with Epsom Salts, try using 1 Tbp per 5 gallons, if > > > > > > > > > > > > it seems he's constipated > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -- and if you can isolate him. Pleco's don't like > > > > > > > > > > > > too much table salt and > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I'm not sure if they take kindly to Epsom Salts > > > > > > > > > > > > either. For treating initial > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > stages of some internal issues, some hobbyists > > > > > > > > > > > > increase the amount of Epsom > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Salts slowly to 1 tsp per gallon (or more) -- that's > > > > > > > > > > > > 1 2/3 Tsp per 5 > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > gallons -- but the fish must be observed that he > > > > > > > > > > > > doesn't get stressed. Ray > > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 43050	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 9/1/2009
Subject: Re: oscar ill

Ray, Just to further clear things up, didn't you instruct Mo to use 1 Tbsp per 5G? Mo is mentioning 1 Tbsp per 10G as the dosage but I KNOW you said 1 Tbsp per 5G which would be 3 tsp (teaspoons) per 5G... right? Way back in the beginning, I even said the level could be raised to 1 tsp per gallon if the Oscar was in a Q-tank. Like you, with the Pleco, dosages would have to raised very slowly and watch the Pleco for signs of distress. I've read forum threads where folks have used up to this dosage on Plecos without a problem as long as it is slowly raised to that level. Since Mo had under-dosed the original tank for fear of harming the Pleco, I thought Mo was going to move the Oscar to the Q-tank set-up to increase the dosage and to observe if the Oscar is eating/pooping, before looking at other options or treatments. At least, that is what I would do. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of sevenspringss Sent: Tuesday, September 01, 2009 12:43 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: oscar ill Mo, I'm sorry to say, but I didn't give you ANY directions with teaspoons. As it's alway much easier to follow, it'a always a good idea to remain consistent. The directions I gave you were in in Tbs (Tablespoons). From now on, I'll spell it out each time. By using teaspoons instead of Tablespoons, you've used far less epsom salt this second time than was intended (and needed). Go back and figure that amount in Tbs (Tablespoons) in place of the teaspoons you've used, and add in the difference. Ray --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "moiragrubb2000" <moiragrubb2000@...> wrote: > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@> wrote: > > > lenny the only reason i used both was because ray did i dont know if > u s calculations are different from british but our calc are 2tsp per > dessert spoon and 2 dessert to a tbs which makes 4 tsp to a tbs i > think ray probably used both to make raising the dose easier because i > was treating the main tank he advised starting at 1 tablespoon per 10 > us gallon then slowly raising it by 2 thirds of a teaspoonper 10 > gallon this is all becoming a bit confusing and to make it worse i > dont have a tbs so was using a dessert spoon so if i start again i > initially put in 18 dessert spoons then added another 8teaspoons 16 > hours later my head is starting to spin but i dont think ive went > above the top dosage of 1 tbsp per 5 us gallons mo > > > Mo, > > > > Re-post your dosages... or confirm what I am writing just to make > > sure there are not typos. You started off by saying "9 tbs" (tbs = > > tablespoons?) and at first I was thinking you meant tsp = teaspoons, > > but then you followed that with "8 tsp" but then you state a total > > of "11 tbs" but that would be equating "8 tsp" to be only 2 Tbsp > > whereas a level Tbsp is equal to 3 teaspoons so your total dosage, > > according to my calculations would be 11 2/3 Tbsp., so right now you > > are at 35 teaspoons in your 84G tank, or .416 teaspoons per gallon (U.S.) right now. > > > > Since Ray instructed to gradually raise the Epsom Salt level to 1 > > Tbsp (level tablespoon) per 5G (U.S.) (which would be equal to 6 > > teaspoons per > > 10G) and you have an 84G (U.S.) tank, that would be a total of 17 > > Tbsp. (for 85G U.S.)(which would be equal to 51 teaspoons). This > > would be equal to 6 teaspoons per 10G. I'm making these conversions > > so that you will be able to properly dose the replacement water for > > the Q-tank... and because, personally, I like using teaspoons per > > gallon or 10G rather than Tbsp per 5G for calculating and dosing. > > I've seen too many people (or maybe it's just me.. lol) get confused > > when trying to use the Tbsp measure for dosing their tanks... or > > even for cooking for that matter. :-P > > > > Since all of the fish in the main tank are now acclimated to this > > harder water, you would normally want to slowly lower the water back > > to normal but since you now plan to move the Oscar, you will want > > his new Q-tank to have at least half of his tank water and then move > > the Oscar to that 1/2 filled Q-tank. Then, prepare the water for > > topping off the Q-tank by using your dechlor and dosing that water > > to the same Epsom Salt level that is in the main tank now and then top off the Q-tank with that water. > > > > Then you can top off the main tank with normal dechlored water to > > start lowering the Epsom Salt level in that tank slowly back to > > normal. It will take several more 25% PWC's to get it completely > > back to normal. I'm presuming that the main tank will only lose > > around 25% or less of it's water volume when you use some of the > > main tank water in the Q-tank to fill it at least 1/2 way. You can > > easily use up to 25% of the main tank's water in the Q-tank so if it > > fills up the Q-tank even more than 1/2 way, that would be even > > better to keep the fish from having to deal with too much of a water change while it's dealing with all of the other changes. > > > > From now on, when dosing or keeping track of your dosages or posting > > them, do NOT mix Tbsp and tsp so you don't get mixed up with knowing > > the total volume or so that others do not inadvertently pick up the > > numbers wrong when replying. I've seen many of mixed up threads of > > advice being given in forums due to this problem. > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles > > referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, > > alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) > > > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of moiragrubb2000 > > Sent: Tuesday, September 01, 2009 10:04 AM > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: oscar ill > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "sevenspringss" <sevenspringss@> > > wrote: > > > > > ray just to double check before i set up tank my initialdose was 9 > > tbs followed by another 8 tsp this morning which was about 16 hours > > later that was 9am this morning bmt 7 hours ago so think thats > > roughly 11 tbs in tank so going by that would you reccommend using > > half his water or half another tanks water along side treated fresh > > water sorry for being a pain but just want to be sure im all ready > > to set it up had to go out earlier so couldnt answer your post at > > the time cheers mo > > > > > Yes, I don't know why yahoo posted them in the reverse order. > > > Sorry it > > confused you. I thought it best to answer them in the order Yahoo > > posted them to prevent any confusion, as usually the messages are > > read from the top down (first one first) in your In Box. > > > > > > Anyway, in answer to the epsom salt, I see you've given the Oscar > > > his initial dosage. I still don't know what you've decided on > > > giving him, as the initial amount of this epsom salt dosage. In > > > any event, it shouldn't have any adverse effect on medications, > > > that I can see, and as I reminded you, the amount of epsom salt > > > being used will be diluted in half when you make up the water for > > > the container. While on this subject, I'd just like to clarify > > > the statement I made about trying to keep the osmotic pressure at > > > a minimum. That should read read, to keep the osmotic pressure > > > difference at a minimum. Ray > > > > > > > > > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, moira grubb <moiragrubb2000@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > cheers ray i did notice the messages were wrong way lol it > > > > caused me a bit of confusion  i take it the epsom salt wouldnt > > > > have an adverse effect on any medication  mo > > > > --- On Tue, 1/9/09, sevenspringss <sevenspringss@> wrote: > > > > > > > > From: sevenspringss <sevenspringss@> > > > > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: oscar ill > > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > > > Date: Tuesday, 1 September, 2009, 12:12 PM > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >   > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I've approved your last two messages in the > > > > order that you sent them, one at 4:25 AM EDT and the other at > > > > 6:35 AM EDT but I see Yahoo chose to post them in the reverse > > > > order -- So I'll address them in their present order. Too bad > > > > about the most obvious stores for carrying this product not > > > > having it, but at least you found it. Glad to see you've already started treatment with it. > > > > Also nice to see that you're prepared with a spare heater and > > > > filter. If this filter is not cycled, just take some filter > > > > media from your established filter and stuff it into this one. > > > > Fill the container with 1/2 water from his tank and 1/2 water > > > > from the tap (treated); well, don't quite "fill" it, unless you > > > > (preferably) have a clear top for it. Leave at least 4" (5", if > > > > the container is deep > > > > enough) of space to help ensure he doesn't jump out. Ray > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > --- In AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com, "moiragrubb2000" > > > > <moiragrubb2000@ > > ...> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > --- In AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com, "sevenspringss" > > > > > <sevenspringss@ > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > i have already started treatment and have upped the dosage > > > > > today believe it or not none of my local supermarkets sold > > > > > this and tried 4 pharmacys before finding this at s small > > > > > chemist unbelievable i was going to set up aclear storage box > > > > > i had but wasnt as big as i thought so sent hubby to get the > > > > > biggest he can find and going to set it up today i have got > > > > > spare heater and filter refering bacck to my prev post what > > > > > water would you recommend i use mo > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Any supermarket or pharmacy has epsom salt, so you should > > > > > > have been > > able to find it easily. Not all fish stores have it as it's not > > necessarily an aquarium hobby related item. We only recommend it > > knowing that it usually works as well on fish as a laxative as well > > as it works on humans (in the form of Milk of Magnesia). > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > He may be rubbing his belly in attempts to dislodge the blockage. > > While he may have internal bacteria or parasites, which remains yet > > unseen, an attempt at treating him for intestinal blockage should > > see improvement within 12 to 24 hours if that's the problem and > > should be started ASAP if only to determine whether further steps > > may be needed for treating possible internal pathogen issues. A > > fish of 14" can go without eating for a month (six weeks, but that > > would be stretching it to the point of probable no return), but then > > you did say that he hasn't eaten for a little while now already. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > If it comes down to it, internal pathogen medications should > > > > > > be done in isolation. Consider a cheap container of any > > > > > > type (doesn't need to be an "aquarium") large enough to > > > > > > house either him or the other fish to separate him for > > > > > > treating if it becomes necessary. At such possible time, > > > > > > you will most probably need another heater for this > > > > > > container, depending on your ambient temperatures. Ray > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > --- In AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com, "moiragrubb2000" > > <moiragrubb2000@ > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > --- In AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com, "sevenspringss" > > <sevenspringss@ > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ray i had a bit of bother getting epsom salts as lot of > > > > > > > shops dont sell it but got it today and is in tank would > > > > > > > appreciate your advice on whether i can treat tank with > > > > > > > this in just worried that maybe he got internal bacteria > > > > > > > would i be able to put an internal bacteria in tank or > > > > > > > would i be better holding fire to see what happens i > > > > > > > notice that he seems to be rubbing his belly gently on the > > > > > > > driftwood that what it looks like anyway how long can a > > > > > > > fish this size go without eating mo > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Those measurements using Epsom Salt in amounts of water > > > > > > > > are in > > U.S. Gallons. This often works and is sure worth a try. As you > > have no other large tank to isolate either the Oscar or the Pleco, > > you may try the treatment in your 70 Imperial Gallon (84 U.S, > > Gallon) tank, starting out at half-strength (1 Tbp. per 10 U.S, > > Gallons). Reports I've read indicate that Plecos will be fine at 1 > > Tbs. (Tablespoon) of Epsom Salt per 5 U.S. gallons (and even more), > > but it's always easier on any fish when introducing a foreign substance to graduate it in increments over time. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Scale-less fish do not react to Epsom Salt (Magnesium > > > > > > > > Sulfate) > > in as a severe manner as they do with the use of Table Salt (Sodium > > Chloride), as it's the chloride the penetrates the skin with > > burning/toxic results when using Table Salt, whereas Epsom Salt's > > sulfate may promote irritation of the skin in higher concentrations. > > As long as this concentration is kept low enough, it will not > > irritate him. The 1 Tbs. per 10 U.S. gallons may be all that is > > necessary to have a positive effect on your Oscar and is were I > > would start -- or even less, but it's good to know it can be > > increased and still be safe for the Pleco when kept below the > > afore-mentioned amount. As with any unknown process in how it may > > effect a fish, it's best to observe for stress in which case you may > > do a 1/3 PWC to decrease the concentration should the need arise, although this should not be necessary -- but just to know what can be done if needed. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Give the 1 Tbs per 10 U.S. gallons (or less) time (at > > > > > > > > least > > > > > > > > 12 hours) to work before considering increasing the > > > > > > > > concentration. Some hobbyists report success with > > > > > > > > smaller gut-blocked fish with using as little as 1/8 tsp. per U.S. > > > > > > > > Gallon, but since other reports indicate using as much > > > > > > > > as double the amount I've indicated, I find these > > > > > > > > extremes of much less and much more to be excesses (too > > > > > > > > little or too > > > > > > > > much) to one direction or the other to effect a treatment. > > > > > > > > Ray > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > --- In AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com, "moiragrubb2000" > > <moiragrubb2000@ > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > --- In AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com, "sevenspringss" > > <sevenspringss@ > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > thanks ray were the measurements for epsom salts in > > > > > > > > > imp gallons or us gallons mo > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Unfortunately, there's no magic wand that goes along > > > > > > > > > > with > > the epsom salt remedy for constipation in fish. It may take as > > little as 12 hours, or it may take 24 or even more hours -- if it > > works. As this is but one method of attepting a cure for intestinal > > blockage, it may not even work in all cases, but it's a > > well-recognize and old treatment towards effecting a cure. It's not > > 100% guaranteed, but neither are green peas; although this can be > > tried whether or not a fish is eating, whereas peas (often promoting bowel movements in fish) has little hope if the fish isn't eating. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Percentage of water to take out? I'm guessing you > > > > > > > > > > mean as the part of regular PWC (partial water > > > > > > > > > > changes) of normal aquarium maintenance. Normally, > > > > > > > > > > hobbyists change from 1/4 to 1/3 of their tank > > > > > > > > > > weekly, but this also depends on the bioload. You > > > > > > > > > > could try 15% to 20% twice a week, testing as you go > > > > > > > > > > for the usual ammonia, nitrite and nitrate > > > > > > > > > > parameters which we are trying to keep at safe > > > > > > > > > > levels when doing these PWC's -- then go from there > > > > > > > > > > according to these tests results, either increasing > > > > > > > > > > or decreasing as the case may be. If you prefer > > > > > > > > > > doing smaller, more frequent PWC's, start off with > > > > > > > > > > 10% every other day. Ray > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > --- In AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com, "moiragrubb2000" > > <moiragrubb2000@ > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > --- In AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com, > > > > > > > > > > > sevenspringss@ > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > my problem at the moment is isolating him how > > > > > > > > > > > > long would the epsom salts take to work do you think . > > > > > > > > > > > > the longer he is going without eating the more > > > > > > > > > > > > worried im getting could you also answer my > > > > > > > > > > > > question on how much percent of water safe to > > > > > > > > > > > > take out if i was doing 2 to 3 a week cheers mo > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Mo, At first thought, I too figured this problem > > > > > > > > > > > > may have had something to > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > do with the freeze dried food, but that seemed > > > > > > > > > > > > too "obvious," so I was > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > looking for possible water quality issues. > > > > > > > > > > > > You're apparently maintaining this > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > aquarium properly though, so we come right back > > > > > > > > > > > > to this food. For treating > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > with Epsom Salts, try using 1 Tbp per 5 gallons, > > > > > > > > > > > > if it seems he's constipated > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -- and if you can isolate him. Pleco's don't > > > > > > > > > > > > like too much table salt and > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I'm not sure if they take kindly to Epsom Salts > > > > > > > > > > > > either. For treating initial > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > stages of some internal issues, some hobbyists > > > > > > > > > > > > increase the amount of Epsom > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Salts slowly to 1 tsp per gallon (or more) -- > > > > > > > > > > > > that's > > > > > > > > > > > > 1 2/3 Tsp per 5 > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > gallons -- but the fish must be observed that he > > > > > > > > > > > > doesn't get stressed. Ray > > > ------------------------------------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the home page. Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com to receive the digest, which includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com for the No E-Mail option where you will still be able to read messages on the group and post replies. Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com to receive individual e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 43051	From: moiragrubb2000	Date: 9/1/2009
Subject: Re: oscar ill

--- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, sevenspringss@... wrote: > ray maybe it was accidental but you did write tbs and tsp in your original dosage but i should have double checked any how looks like the epsom salts are working my oscar seems to be perking up im keeping my fingers crossed that what i need to know next is how to reduce the amount tsanks mo > Mo, At first thought, I too figured this problem may have had something to > do with the freeze dried food, but that seemed too "obvious," so I was > looking for possible water quality issues. You're apparently maintaining this > aquarium properly though, so we come right back to this food. For treating > with Epsom Salts, try using 1 Tbp per 5 gallons, if it seems he's constipated > -- and if you can isolate him. Pleco's don't like too much table salt and > I'm not sure if they take kindly to Epsom Salts either. For treating initial > stages of some internal issues, some hobbyists increase the amount of Epsom > Salts slowly to 1 tsp per gallon (or more) -- that's 1 2/3 Tsp per 5 > gallons -- but the fish must be observed that he doesn't get stressed. Ray > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 43052	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 9/1/2009
Subject: Re: oscar ill

Mo, Do you have any measuring spoons that are calibrated in ml? Not that it's critical at this point since salt has a built in margin of error unless one is way overdosing but it would be a good thing to check your spoons to see how many ml's they hold in a level spoon full. Or we could convert our Tbsp and tsp measurements to ml for uniformity. Since you've been using spoons that are already known to be different than the measurements we've been talking about, I'd at least like to see what your two different spoons really measure out to in ml's compared to what our tsp and Tbsp measure out to in ml's so we will know if you are already peaked out or if you are still way under dosage? Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of moiragrubb2000 Sent: Tuesday, September 01, 2009 1:51 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: oscar ill --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, sevenspringss@... wrote: > ray maybe it was accidental but you did write tbs and tsp in your original dosage but i should have double checked any how looks like the epsom salts are working my oscar seems to be perking up im keeping my fingers crossed that what i need to know next is how to reduce the amount tsanks mo > Mo, At first thought, I too figured this problem may have had > something to do with the freeze dried food, but that seemed too > "obvious," so I was looking for possible water quality issues. You're > apparently maintaining this aquarium properly though, so we come right > back to this food. For treating with Epsom Salts, try using 1 Tbp per > 5 gallons, if it seems he's constipated > -- and if you can isolate him. Pleco's don't like too much table salt > and I'm not sure if they take kindly to Epsom Salts either. For > treating initial stages of some internal issues, some hobbyists > increase the amount of Epsom Salts slowly to 1 tsp per gallon (or > more) -- that's 1 2/3 Tsp per 5 gallons -- but the fish must be > observed that he doesn't get stressed. Ray > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > ------------------------------------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the home page. Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com to receive the digest, which includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com for the No E-Mail option where you will still be able to read messages on the group and post replies. Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com to receive individual e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 43053	From: sevenspringss	Date: 9/1/2009
Subject: Re: oscar ill

Mo, Just to clarify, your initial dose for the 84 U.S. Gallon tank should have been 8.4 Tbs (Tablespoons) -- or, for Lenny, 25.2 teaspoons, [but 9 Tbs (Tablespoons) -- 27 teaspoons is close enough]: just keep in mind that there's 1.8 teaspoons extra in there. You needed to add another 8.4 Tablespoons for the second dosing. If you've just recently added 8 teaspoons (2 2/3 Tablespoons -- let's call it 2.6 Tablespoons), you'll need to add an additional 5.8 Tablespoons (or, 17.4 teaspoons) to make up the difference of what should should have added, but didn't. Keeping in mind you added an extra 0.6 Tablespoon (1.8 teaspoon) in the beginning, you can deduct that amount and instead add 5.2 Tablespoons (15.6 teaspoons) of epsom salt in addition to what you've added, for the total amount needed. Ray --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "moiragrubb2000" <moiragrubb2000@...> wrote: > > > ray just to double check before i set up tank my initialdose was 9 tbs followed by another 8 tsp this morning which was about 16 hours later that was 9am this morning bmt 7 hours ago so think thats roughly 11 tbs in tank so going by that would you reccommend using half his water or half another tanks water along side treated fresh water sorry for being a pain but just want to be sure im all ready to set it up had to go out earlier so couldnt answer your post at the time cheers mo --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "sevenspringss" <sevenspringss@> wrote: > > > Yes, I don't know why yahoo posted them in the reverse order. Sorry it confused you. I thought it best to answer them in the order Yahoo posted them to prevent any confusion, as usually the messages are read from the top down (first one first) in your In Box. > > > > Anyway, in answer to the epsom salt, I see you've given the Oscar his initial dosage. I still don't know what you've decided on giving him, as the initial amount of this epsom salt dosage. In any event, it shouldn't have any adverse effect on medications, that I can see, and as I reminded you, the amount of epsom salt being used will be diluted in half when you make up the water for the container. While on this subject, I'd just like to clarify the statement I made about trying to keep the osmotic pressure at a minimum. That should read read, to keep the osmotic pressure difference at a minimum. Ray > > > > > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, moira grubb <moiragrubb2000@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > cheers ray i did notice the messages were wrong way lol it caused me a bit of confusion  i take it the epsom salt wouldnt have an adverse effect on any medication  mo > > > --- On Tue, 1/9/09, sevenspringss <sevenspringss@> wrote: > > > > > > From: sevenspringss <sevenspringss@> > > > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: oscar ill > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > > Date: Tuesday, 1 September, 2009, 12:12 PM > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >   > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I've approved your last two messages in the order that you sent them, one at 4:25 AM EDT and the other at 6:35 AM EDT but I see Yahoo chose to post them in the reverse order -- So I'll address them in their present order. Too bad about the most obvious stores for carrying this product not having it, but at least you found it. Glad to see you've already started treatment with it. Also nice to see that you're prepared with a spare heater and filter. If this filter is not cycled, just take some filter media from your established filter and stuff it into this one. Fill the container with 1/2 water from his tank and 1/2 water from the tap (treated); well, don't quite "fill" it, unless you (preferably) have a clear top for it. Leave at least 4" (5", if the container is deep enough) of space to help ensure he doesn't jump out. Ray > > > > > > > > > > > > --- In AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com, "moiragrubb2000" <moiragrubb2000@ ...> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > --- In AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com, "sevenspringss" <sevenspringss@ > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > i have already started treatment and have upped the dosage today believe it or not none of my local supermarkets sold this and tried 4 pharmacys before finding this at s small chemist unbelievable i was going to set up aclear storage box i had but wasnt as big as i thought so sent hubby to get the biggest he can find and going to set it up today i have got spare heater and filter refering bacck to my prev post what water would you recommend i use mo > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Any supermarket or pharmacy has epsom salt, so you should have been able to find it easily. Not all fish stores have it as it's not necessarily an aquarium hobby related item. We only recommend it knowing that it usually works as well on fish as a laxative as well as it works on humans (in the form of Milk of Magnesia). > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > He may be rubbing his belly in attempts to dislodge the blockage. While he may have internal bacteria or parasites, which remains yet unseen, an attempt at treating him for intestinal blockage should see improvement within 12 to 24 hours if that's the problem and should be started ASAP if only to determine whether further steps may be needed for treating possible internal pathogen issues. A fish of 14" can go without eating for a month (six weeks, but that would be stretching it to the point of probable no return), but then you did say that he hasn't eaten for a little while now already. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > If it comes down to it, internal pathogen medications should be done in isolation. Consider a cheap container of any type (doesn't need to be an "aquarium") large enough to house either him or the other fish to separate him for treating if it becomes necessary. At such possible time, you will most probably need another heater for this container, depending on your ambient temperatures. Ray > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > --- In AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com, "moiragrubb2000" <moiragrubb2000@ > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > --- In AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com, "sevenspringss" <sevenspringss@ > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ray i had a bit of bother getting epsom salts as lot of shops dont sell it but got it today and is in tank would appreciate your advice on whether i can treat tank with this in just worried that maybe he got internal bacteria would i be able to put an internal bacteria in tank or would i be better holding fire to see what happens i notice that he seems to be rubbing his belly gently on the driftwood that what it looks like anyway how long can a fish this size go without eating mo > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Those measurements using Epsom Salt in amounts of water are in U.S. Gallons. This often works and is sure worth a try. As you have no other large tank to isolate either the Oscar or the Pleco, you may try the treatment in your 70 Imperial Gallon (84 U.S, Gallon) tank, starting out at half-strength (1 Tbp. per 10 U.S, Gallons). Reports I've read indicate that Plecos will be fine at 1 Tbs. (Tablespoon) of Epsom Salt per 5 U.S. gallons (and even more), but it's always easier on any fish when introducing a foreign substance to graduate it in increments over time. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Scale-less fish do not react to Epsom Salt (Magnesium Sulfate) in as a severe manner as they do with the use of Table Salt (Sodium Chloride), as it's the chloride the penetrates the skin with burning/toxic results when using Table Salt, whereas Epsom Salt's sulfate may promote irritation of the skin in higher concentrations. As long as this concentration is kept low enough, it will not irritate him. The 1 Tbs. per 10 U.S. gallons may be all that is necessary to have a positive effect on your Oscar and is were I would start -- or even less, but it's good to know it can be increased and still be safe for the Pleco when kept below the afore-mentioned amount. As with any unknown process in how it may effect a fish, it's best to observe for stress in which case you may do a 1/3 PWC to decrease the concentration should the need arise, although this should not be necessary -- but just to know what can be done if needed. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Give the 1 Tbs per 10 U.S. gallons (or less) time (at least 12 hours) to work before considering increasing the concentration. Some hobbyists report success with smaller gut-blocked fish with using as little as 1/8 tsp. per U.S. Gallon, but since other reports indicate using as much as double the amount I've indicated, I find these extremes of much less and much more to be excesses (too little or too much) to one direction or the other to effect a treatment. Ray > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > --- In AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com, "moiragrubb2000" <moiragrubb2000@ > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > --- In AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com, "sevenspringss" <sevenspringss@ > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > thanks ray were the measurements for epsom salts in imp gallons or us gallons mo > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Unfortunately, there's no magic wand that goes along with the epsom salt remedy for constipation in fish. It may take as little as 12 hours, or it may take 24 or even more hours -- if it works. As this is but one method of attepting a cure for intestinal blockage, it may not even work in all cases, but it's a well-recognize and old treatment towards effecting a cure. It's not 100% guaranteed, but neither are green peas; although this can be tried whether or not a fish is eating, whereas peas (often promoting bowel movements in fish) has little hope if the fish isn't eating. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Percentage of water to take out? I'm guessing you mean as the part of regular PWC (partial water changes) of normal aquarium maintenance. Normally, hobbyists change from 1/4 to 1/3 of their tank weekly, but this also depends on the bioload. You could try 15% to 20% twice a week, testing as you go for the usual ammonia, nitrite and nitrate parameters which we are trying to keep at safe levels when doing these PWC's -- then go from there according to these tests results, either increasing or decreasing as the case may be. If you prefer doing smaller, more frequent PWC's, start off with 10% every other day. Ray > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > --- In AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com, "moiragrubb2000" <moiragrubb2000@ > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > --- In AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com, sevenspringss@ wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > my problem at the moment is isolating him how long would the epsom salts take to work do you think . the longer he is going without eating the more worried im getting could you also answer my question on how much percent of water safe to take out if i was doing 2 to 3 a week cheers mo > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Mo, At first thought, I too figured this problem may have had something to > > > > > > > > > > > > > > do with the freeze dried food, but that seemed too "obvious," so I was > > > > > > > > > > > > > > looking for possible water quality issues. You're apparently maintaining this > > > > > > > > > > > > > > aquarium properly though, so we come right back to this food. For treating > > > > > > > > > > > > > > with Epsom Salts, try using 1 Tbp per 5 gallons, if it seems he's constipated > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -- and if you can isolate him. Pleco's don't like too much table salt and > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I'm not sure if they take kindly to Epsom Salts either. For treating initial > > > > > > > > > > > > > > stages of some internal issues, some hobbyists increase the amount of Epsom > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Salts slowly to 1 tsp per gallon (or more) -- that's 1 2/3 Tsp per 5 > > > > > > > > > > > > > > gallons -- but the fish must be observed that he doesn't get stressed. Ray > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 43054	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 9/1/2009
Subject: Re: oscar ill

Here's a simple page with a calculator from U.S. measurements to Metric. http://animal-world.com/encyclo/information/calculate.htm Click on the "Liquid Measurement Conversions" to see that 1 teaspoon is equal to 5ml and 1 tablespoon is equal to 15ml (since a Tbsp is equal to 3 tsp). At least, if you have a metric measuring spoon(s), you can check the two spoons that you have been using so we'll know how far off we are. For others reading this thread, that page also has other useful aquarium calculators but I cannot vouch for other things on the site as I have not looked over it enough to know so proceed with caution if browsing the site. If I ever learn HTML, javascript, etc., I'll consider building my own calculator page on my blog... but that will be a while. I know I could probably "steal" the code from this page or others out there but I'd still like to learn how to tweak it to my own style. LOL Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of moiragrubb2000 Sent: Tuesday, September 01, 2009 1:51 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: oscar ill --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, sevenspringss@... wrote: > ray maybe it was accidental but you did write tbs and tsp in your original dosage but i should have double checked any how looks like the epsom salts are working my oscar seems to be perking up im keeping my fingers crossed that what i need to know next is how to reduce the amount tsanks mo > Mo, At first thought, I too figured this problem may have had > something to do with the freeze dried food, but that seemed too > "obvious," so I was looking for possible water quality issues. You're > apparently maintaining this aquarium properly though, so we come right > back to this food. For treating with Epsom Salts, try using 1 Tbp per > 5 gallons, if it seems he's constipated > -- and if you can isolate him. Pleco's don't like too much table salt > and I'm not sure if they take kindly to Epsom Salts either. For > treating initial stages of some internal issues, some hobbyists > increase the amount of Epsom Salts slowly to 1 tsp per gallon (or > more) -- that's 1 2/3 Tsp per 5 gallons -- but the fish must be > observed that he doesn't get stressed. Ray > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > ------------------------------------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the home page. Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com to receive the digest, which includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com for the No E-Mail option where you will still be able to read messages on the group and post replies. Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com to receive individual e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 43055	From: moiragrubb2000	Date: 9/1/2009
Subject: Re: oscar ill

--- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "sevenspringss" <sevenspringss@...> wrote: > cheers ray will rectify that .looks like its starting to work anyway thank goodness i think my e mails seem to be taking ages to get through lol youd think they were walking from scotland to america im getting answers from you guys before my e mails are even showing on my computer mo > Mo, Just to clarify, your initial dose for the 84 U.S. Gallon tank should have been 8.4 Tbs (Tablespoons) -- or, for Lenny, 25.2 teaspoons, [but 9 Tbs (Tablespoons) -- 27 teaspoons is close enough]: just keep in mind that there's 1.8 teaspoons extra in there. > > You needed to add another 8.4 Tablespoons for the second dosing. If you've just recently added 8 teaspoons (2 2/3 Tablespoons -- let's call it 2.6 Tablespoons), you'll need to add an additional 5.8 Tablespoons (or, 17.4 teaspoons) to make up the difference of what should should have added, but didn't. Keeping in mind you added an extra 0.6 Tablespoon (1.8 teaspoon) in the beginning, you can deduct that amount and instead add 5.2 Tablespoons (15.6 teaspoons) of epsom salt in addition to what you've added, for the total amount needed. Ray > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "moiragrubb2000" <moiragrubb2000@> wrote: > > > > > ray just to double check before i set up tank my initialdose was 9 tbs followed by another 8 tsp this morning which was about 16 hours later that was 9am this morning bmt 7 hours ago so think thats roughly 11 tbs in tank so going by that would you reccommend using half his water or half another tanks water along side treated fresh water sorry for being a pain but just want to be sure im all ready to set it up had to go out earlier so couldnt answer your post at the time cheers mo > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "sevenspringss" <sevenspringss@> wrote: > > > > > Yes, I don't know why yahoo posted them in the reverse order. Sorry it confused you. I thought it best to answer them in the order Yahoo posted them to prevent any confusion, as usually the messages are read from the top down (first one first) in your In Box. > > > > > > Anyway, in answer to the epsom salt, I see you've given the Oscar his initial dosage. I still don't know what you've decided on giving him, as the initial amount of this epsom salt dosage. In any event, it shouldn't have any adverse effect on medications, that I can see, and as I reminded you, the amount of epsom salt being used will be diluted in half when you make up the water for the container. While on this subject, I'd just like to clarify the statement I made about trying to keep the osmotic pressure at a minimum. That should read read, to keep the osmotic pressure difference at a minimum. Ray > > > > > > > > > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, moira grubb <moiragrubb2000@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > cheers ray i did notice the messages were wrong way lol it caused me a bit of confusion  i take it the epsom salt wouldnt have an adverse effect on any medication  mo > > > > --- On Tue, 1/9/09, sevenspringss <sevenspringss@> wrote: > > > > > > > > From: sevenspringss <sevenspringss@> > > > > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: oscar ill > > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > > > Date: Tuesday, 1 September, 2009, 12:12 PM > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >   > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I've approved your last two messages in the order that you sent them, one at 4:25 AM EDT and the other at 6:35 AM EDT but I see Yahoo chose to post them in the reverse order -- So I'll address them in their present order. Too bad about the most obvious stores for carrying this product not having it, but at least you found it. Glad to see you've already started treatment with it. Also nice to see that you're prepared with a spare heater and filter. If this filter is not cycled, just take some filter media from your established filter and stuff it into this one. Fill the container with 1/2 water from his tank and 1/2 water from the tap (treated); well, don't quite "fill" it, unless you (preferably) have a clear top for it. Leave at least 4" (5", if the container is deep enough) of space to help ensure he doesn't jump out. Ray > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > --- In AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com, "moiragrubb2000" <moiragrubb2000@ ...> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > --- In AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com, "sevenspringss" <sevenspringss@ > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > i have already started treatment and have upped the dosage today believe it or not none of my local supermarkets sold this and tried 4 pharmacys before finding this at s small chemist unbelievable i was going to set up aclear storage box i had but wasnt as big as i thought so sent hubby to get the biggest he can find and going to set it up today i have got spare heater and filter refering bacck to my prev post what water would you recommend i use mo > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Any supermarket or pharmacy has epsom salt, so you should have been able to find it easily. Not all fish stores have it as it's not necessarily an aquarium hobby related item. We only recommend it knowing that it usually works as well on fish as a laxative as well as it works on humans (in the form of Milk of Magnesia). > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > He may be rubbing his belly in attempts to dislodge the blockage. While he may have internal bacteria or parasites, which remains yet unseen, an attempt at treating him for intestinal blockage should see improvement within 12 to 24 hours if that's the problem and should be started ASAP if only to determine whether further steps may be needed for treating possible internal pathogen issues. A fish of 14" can go without eating for a month (six weeks, but that would be stretching it to the point of probable no return), but then you did say that he hasn't eaten for a little while now already. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > If it comes down to it, internal pathogen medications should be done in isolation. Consider a cheap container of any type (doesn't need to be an "aquarium") large enough to house either him or the other fish to separate him for treating if it becomes necessary. At such possible time, you will most probably need another heater for this container, depending on your ambient temperatures. Ray > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > --- In AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com, "moiragrubb2000" <moiragrubb2000@ > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > --- In AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com, "sevenspringss" <sevenspringss@ > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ray i had a bit of bother getting epsom salts as lot of shops dont sell it but got it today and is in tank would appreciate your advice on whether i can treat tank with this in just worried that maybe he got internal bacteria would i be able to put an internal bacteria in tank or would i be better holding fire to see what happens i notice that he seems to be rubbing his belly gently on the driftwood that what it looks like anyway how long can a fish this size go without eating mo > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Those measurements using Epsom Salt in amounts of water are in U.S. Gallons. This often works and is sure worth a try. As you have no other large tank to isolate either the Oscar or the Pleco, you may try the treatment in your 70 Imperial Gallon (84 U.S, Gallon) tank, starting out at half-strength (1 Tbp. per 10 U.S, Gallons). Reports I've read indicate that Plecos will be fine at 1 Tbs. (Tablespoon) of Epsom Salt per 5 U.S. gallons (and even more), but it's always easier on any fish when introducing a foreign substance to graduate it in increments over time. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Scale-less fish do not react to Epsom Salt (Magnesium Sulfate) in as a severe manner as they do with the use of Table Salt (Sodium Chloride), as it's the chloride the penetrates the skin with burning/toxic results when using Table Salt, whereas Epsom Salt's sulfate may promote irritation of the skin in higher concentrations. As long as this concentration is kept low enough, it will not irritate him. The 1 Tbs. per 10 U.S. gallons may be all that is necessary to have a positive effect on your Oscar and is were I would start -- or even less, but it's good to know it can be increased and still be safe for the Pleco when kept below the afore-mentioned amount. As with any unknown process in how it may effect a fish, it's best to observe for stress in which case you may do a 1/3 PWC to decrease the concentration should the need arise, although this should not be necessary -- but just to know what can be done if needed. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Give the 1 Tbs per 10 U.S. gallons (or less) time (at least 12 hours) to work before considering increasing the concentration. Some hobbyists report success with smaller gut-blocked fish with using as little as 1/8 tsp. per U.S. Gallon, but since other reports indicate using as much as double the amount I've indicated, I find these extremes of much less and much more to be excesses (too little or too much) to one direction or the other to effect a treatment. Ray > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > --- In AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com, "moiragrubb2000" <moiragrubb2000@ > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > --- In AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com, "sevenspringss" <sevenspringss@ > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > thanks ray were the measurements for epsom salts in imp gallons or us gallons mo > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Unfortunately, there's no magic wand that goes along with the epsom salt remedy for constipation in fish. It may take as little as 12 hours, or it may take 24 or even more hours -- if it works. As this is but one method of attepting a cure for intestinal blockage, it may not even work in all cases, but it's a well-recognize and old treatment towards effecting a cure. It's not 100% guaranteed, but neither are green peas; although this can be tried whether or not a fish is eating, whereas peas (often promoting bowel movements in fish) has little hope if the fish isn't eating. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Percentage of water to take out? I'm guessing you mean as the part of regular PWC (partial water changes) of normal aquarium maintenance. Normally, hobbyists change from 1/4 to 1/3 of their tank weekly, but this also depends on the bioload. You could try 15% to 20% twice a week, testing as you go for the usual ammonia, nitrite and nitrate parameters which we are trying to keep at safe levels when doing these PWC's -- then go from there according to these tests results, either increasing or decreasing as the case may be. If you prefer doing smaller, more frequent PWC's, start off with 10% every other day. Ray > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > --- In AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com, "moiragrubb2000" <moiragrubb2000@ > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > --- In AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com, sevenspringss@ wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > my problem at the moment is isolating him how long would the epsom salts take to work do you think . the longer he is going without eating the more worried im getting could you also answer my question on how much percent of water safe to take out if i was doing 2 to 3 a week cheers mo > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Mo, At first thought, I too figured this problem may have had something to > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > do with the freeze dried food, but that seemed too "obvious," so I was > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > looking for possible water quality issues. You're apparently maintaining this > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > aquarium properly though, so we come right back to this food. For treating > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > with Epsom Salts, try using 1 Tbp per 5 gallons, if it seems he's constipated > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -- and if you can isolate him. Pleco's don't like too much table salt and > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I'm not sure if they take kindly to Epsom Salts either. For treating initial > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > stages of some internal issues, some hobbyists increase the amount of Epsom > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Salts slowly to 1 tsp per gallon (or more) -- that's 1 2/3 Tsp per 5 > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > gallons -- but the fish must be observed that he doesn't get stressed. Ray > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > > > > > > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 43056	From: moiragrubb2000	Date: 9/1/2009
Subject: Re: oscar ill

--- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@...> wrote: > lenny i think our teaspoons are 5mls so either our tablespoons are 20mls or the calculater i went to was wrong but when i went to school we were taught 2 tsp for dessert and 2 dessert for a tbsp but now im going to double check it lol managed to figure it all out anyway with rays help he calculated how much more i had to add you guys are a fab help mo > Mo, > > Do you have any measuring spoons that are calibrated in ml? Not that it's > critical at this point since salt has a built in margin of error unless one > is way overdosing but it would be a good thing to check your spoons to see > how many ml's they hold in a level spoon full. Or we could convert our Tbsp > and tsp measurements to ml for uniformity. Since you've been using spoons > that are already known to be different than the measurements we've been > talking about, I'd at least like to see what your two different spoons > really measure out to in ml's compared to what our tsp and Tbsp measure out > to in ml's so we will know if you are already peaked out or if you are still > way under dosage? > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right > side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) > > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On > Behalf Of moiragrubb2000 > Sent: Tuesday, September 01, 2009 1:51 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: oscar ill > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, sevenspringss@ wrote: > > > ray maybe it was accidental but you did write tbs and tsp in your original > dosage but i should have double checked any how looks like the epsom salts > are working my oscar seems to be perking up im keeping my fingers crossed > that what i need to know next is how to reduce the amount tsanks mo > > > Mo, At first thought, I too figured this problem may have had > > something to do with the freeze dried food, but that seemed too > > "obvious," so I was looking for possible water quality issues. You're > > apparently maintaining this aquarium properly though, so we come right > > back to this food. For treating with Epsom Salts, try using 1 Tbp per > > 5 gallons, if it seems he's constipated > > -- and if you can isolate him. Pleco's don't like too much table salt > > and I'm not sure if they take kindly to Epsom Salts either. For > > treating initial stages of some internal issues, some hobbyists > > increase the amount of Epsom Salts slowly to 1 tsp per gallon (or > > more) -- that's 1 2/3 Tsp per 5 gallons -- but the fish must be > > observed that he doesn't get stressed. Ray > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > > > > ------------------------------------ > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. > ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> > PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to > the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT > LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- > <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. > > If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of unsubscribing, you > can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the > home page. > > Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com to receive the digest, which > includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email > > Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com for the No E-Mail option where > you will still be able to read messages on the group and post replies. > > Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com to receive individual > e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 43057	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 9/1/2009
Subject: Re: oscar ill

That's because your posts have to be approved by the admin's of the group first ;) It's okay Mo, we will still get them all eventually, just a slow walk from scotland ;) LOL Amber moiragrubb2000 wrote: > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>, "sevenspringss" > <sevenspringss@...> wrote: > > > cheers ray will rectify that .looks like its starting to work anyway > thank goodness i think my e mails seem to be taking ages to get > through lol youd think they were walking from scotland to america im > getting answers from you guys before my e mails are even showing on my > computer mo > > > Mo, Just to clarify, your initial dose for the 84 U.S. Gallon tank > should have been 8.4 Tbs (Tablespoons) -- or, for Lenny, 25.2 > teaspoons, [but 9 Tbs (Tablespoons) -- 27 teaspoons is close enough]: > just keep in mind that there's 1.8 teaspoons extra in there. > > > > You needed to add another 8.4 Tablespoons for the second dosing. If > you've just recently added 8 teaspoons (2 2/3 Tablespoons -- let's > call it 2.6 Tablespoons), you'll need to add an additional 5.8 > Tablespoons (or, 17.4 teaspoons) to make up the difference of what > should should have added, but didn't. Keeping in mind you added an > extra 0.6 Tablespoon (1.8 teaspoon) in the beginning, you can deduct > that amount and instead add 5.2 Tablespoons (15.6 teaspoons) of epsom > salt in addition to what you've added, for the total amount needed. Ray > > > > > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>, "moiragrubb2000" > <moiragrubb2000@> wrote: > > > > > > > ray just to double check before i set up tank my initialdose was 9 > tbs followed by another 8 tsp this morning which was about 16 hours > later that was 9am this morning bmt 7 hours ago so think thats roughly > 11 tbs in tank so going by that would you reccommend using half his > water or half another tanks water along side treated fresh water sorry > for being a pain but just want to be sure im all ready to set it up > had to go out earlier so couldnt answer your post at the time cheers mo > > > > > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>, "sevenspringss" > <sevenspringss@> wrote: > > > > > > > Yes, I don't know why yahoo posted them in the reverse order. > Sorry it confused you. I thought it best to answer them in the order > Yahoo posted them to prevent any confusion, as usually the messages > are read from the top down (first one first) in your In Box. > > > > > > > > Anyway, in answer to the epsom salt, I see you've given the > Oscar his initial dosage. I still don't know what you've decided on > giving him, as the initial amount of this epsom salt dosage. In any > event, it shouldn't have any adverse effect on medications, that I can > see, and as I reminded you, the amount of epsom salt being used will > be diluted in half when you make up the water for the container. While > on this subject, I'd just like to clarify the statement I made about > trying to keep the osmotic pressure at a minimum. That should read > read, to keep the osmotic pressure difference at a minimum. Ray > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>, moira grubb <moiragrubb2000@> > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > cheers ray i did notice the messages were wrong way lol it > caused me a bit of confusion i take it the epsom salt wouldnt have an > adverse effect on any medication mo > > > > > --- On Tue, 1/9/09, sevenspringss <sevenspringss@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > From: sevenspringss <sevenspringss@> > > > > > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: oscar ill > > > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > Date: Tuesday, 1 September, 2009, 12:12 PM > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I've approved your last two messages in the order that you > sent them, one at 4:25 AM EDT and the other at 6:35 AM EDT but I see > Yahoo chose to post them in the reverse order -- So I'll address them > in their present order. Too bad about the most obvious stores for > carrying this product not having it, but at least you found it. Glad > to see you've already started treatment with it. Also nice to see that > you're prepared with a spare heater and filter. If this filter is not > cycled, just take some filter media from your established filter and > stuff it into this one. Fill the container with 1/2 water from his > tank and 1/2 water from the tap (treated); well, don't quite "fill" > it, unless you (preferably) have a clear top for it. Leave at least 4" > (5", if the container is deep enough) of space to help ensure he > doesn't jump out. Ray > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > --- In AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com, "moiragrubb2000" > <moiragrubb2000@ ...> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > --- In AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com, "sevenspringss" > <sevenspringss@ > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > i have already started treatment and have upped the dosage > today believe it or not none of my local supermarkets sold this and > tried 4 pharmacys before finding this at s small chemist unbelievable > i was going to set up aclear storage box i had but wasnt as big as i > thought so sent hubby to get the biggest he can find and going to set > it up today i have got spare heater and filter refering bacck to my > prev post what water would you recommend i use mo > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Any supermarket or pharmacy has epsom salt, so you should > have been able to find it easily. Not all fish stores have it as it's > not necessarily an aquarium hobby related item. We only recommend it > knowing that it usually works as well on fish as a laxative as well as > it works on humans (in the form of Milk of Magnesia). > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > He may be rubbing his belly in attempts to dislodge the > blockage. While he may have internal bacteria or parasites, which > remains yet unseen, an attempt at treating him for intestinal blockage > should see improvement within 12 to 24 hours if that's the problem and > should be started ASAP if only to determine whether further steps may > be needed for treating possible internal pathogen issues. A fish of > 14" can go without eating for a month (six weeks, but that would be > stretching it to the point of probable no return), but then you did > say that he hasn't eaten for a little while now already. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > If it comes down to it, internal pathogen medications > should be done in isolation. Consider a cheap container of any type > (doesn't need to be an "aquarium") large enough to house either him or > the other fish to separate him for treating if it becomes necessary. > At such possible time, you will most probably need another heater for > this container, depending on your ambient temperatures. Ray > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > --- In AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com, "moiragrubb2000" > <moiragrubb2000@ > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > --- In AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com, "sevenspringss" > <sevenspringss@ > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ray i had a bit of bother getting epsom salts as lot of > shops dont sell it but got it today and is in tank would appreciate > your advice on whether i can treat tank with this in just worried that > maybe he got internal bacteria would i be able to put an internal > bacteria in tank or would i be better holding fire to see what happens > i notice that he seems to be rubbing his belly gently on the driftwood > that what it looks like anyway how long can a fish this size go > without eating mo > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Those measurements using Epsom Salt in amounts of > water are in U.S. Gallons. This often works and is sure worth a try. > As you have no other large tank to isolate either the Oscar or the > Pleco, you may try the treatment in your 70 Imperial Gallon (84 U.S, > Gallon) tank, starting out at half-strength (1 Tbp. per 10 U.S, > Gallons). Reports I've read indicate that Plecos will be fine at 1 > Tbs. (Tablespoon) of Epsom Salt per 5 U.S. gallons (and even more), > but it's always easier on any fish when introducing a foreign > substance to graduate it in increments over time. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Scale-less fish do not react to Epsom Salt (Magnesium > Sulfate) in as a severe manner as they do with the use of Table Salt > (Sodium Chloride), as it's the chloride the penetrates the skin with > burning/toxic results when using Table Salt, whereas Epsom Salt's > sulfate may promote irritation of the skin in higher concentrations. > As long as this concentration is kept low enough, it will not irritate > him. The 1 Tbs. per 10 U.S. gallons may be all that is necessary to > have a positive effect on your Oscar and is were I would start -- or > even less, but it's good to know it can be increased and still be safe > for the Pleco when kept below the afore-mentioned amount. As with any > unknown process in how it may effect a fish, it's best to observe for > stress in which case you may do a 1/3 PWC to decrease the > concentration should the need arise, although this should not be > necessary -- but just to know what can be done if needed. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Give the 1 Tbs per 10 U.S. gallons (or less) time (at > least 12 hours) to work before considering increasing the > concentration. Some hobbyists report success with smaller gut-blocked > fish with using as little as 1/8 tsp. per U.S. Gallon, but since other > reports indicate using as much as double the amount I've indicated, I > find these extremes of much less and much more to be excesses (too > little or too much) to one direction or the other to effect a > treatment. Ray > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > --- In AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com, "moiragrubb2000" > <moiragrubb2000@ > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > --- In AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com, > "sevenspringss" <sevenspringss@ > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > thanks ray were the measurements for epsom salts in > imp gallons or us gallons mo > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Unfortunately, there's no magic wand that goes > along with the epsom salt remedy for constipation in fish. It may take > as little as 12 hours, or it may take 24 or even more hours -- if it > works. As this is but one method of attepting a cure for intestinal > blockage, it may not even work in all cases, but it's a well-recognize > and old treatment towards effecting a cure. It's not 100% guaranteed, > but neither are green peas; although this can be tried whether or not > a fish is eating, whereas peas (often promoting bowel movements in > fish) has little hope if the fish isn't eating. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Percentage of water to take out? I'm guessing you > mean as the part of regular PWC (partial water changes) of normal > aquarium maintenance. Normally, hobbyists change from 1/4 to 1/3 of > their tank weekly, but this also depends on the bioload. You could try > 15% to 20% twice a week, testing as you go for the usual ammonia, > nitrite and nitrate parameters which we are trying to keep at safe > levels when doing these PWC's -- then go from there according to these > tests results, either increasing or decreasing as the case may be. If > you prefer doing smaller, more frequent PWC's, start off with 10% > every other day. Ray > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > --- In AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com, > "moiragrubb2000" <moiragrubb2000@ > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > --- In AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com, > sevenspringss@ wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > my problem at the moment is isolating him how > long would the epsom salts take to work do you think . the longer he > is going without eating the more worried im getting could you also > answer my question on how much percent of water safe to take out if i > was doing 2 to 3 a week cheers mo > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Mo, At first thought, I too figured this > problem may have had something to > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > do with the freeze dried food, but that seemed > too "obvious," so I was > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > looking for possible water quality issues. > You're apparently maintaining this > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > aquarium properly though, so we come right > back to this food. For treating > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > with Epsom Salts, try using 1 Tbp per 5 > gallons, if it seems he's constipated > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -- and if you can isolate him. Pleco's don't > like too much table salt and > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I'm not sure if they take kindly to Epsom > Salts either. For treating initial > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > stages of some internal issues, some hobbyists > increase the amount of Epsom > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Salts slowly to 1 tsp per gallon (or more) -- > that's 1 2/3 Tsp per 5 > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > gallons -- but the fish must be observed that > he doesn't get stressed. Ray > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been > removed] > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 43058	From: sevenspringss	Date: 9/1/2009
Subject: Re: oscar ill

Lenny, Yes I DID -- That is the EXACT amount I told Mo to use -- BUT, in two equal doses -- 24 hours apart (again, to best keep a better eye on the Pleco in case of his stressing) -- each partial dose being half THIS TOTAL, or 3 Tablespoons per 10 U.S. Gallons partial dosage (in two separate increments). Of course, this was all before this 21 container came into the picture, and there was no other choice in the matter -- but with the knowledge of the Pleco being safe at this level of epsom salt, just as you're stating. As I gather it from her, she had already started the first partial dose of these salts yesterday before getting this container; at least that's the way I read her to say. Ray --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@...> wrote: > > Ray, > > Just to further clear things up, didn't you instruct Mo to use 1 Tbsp per > 5G? Mo is mentioning 1 Tbsp per 10G as the dosage but I KNOW you said 1 > Tbsp per 5G which would be 3 tsp (teaspoons) per 5G... right? Way back in > the beginning, I even said the level could be raised to 1 tsp per gallon if > the Oscar was in a Q-tank. Like you, with the Pleco, dosages would have to > raised very slowly and watch the Pleco for signs of distress. I've read > forum threads where folks have used up to this dosage on Plecos without a > problem as long as it is slowly raised to that level. Since Mo had > under-dosed the original tank for fear of harming the Pleco, I thought Mo > was going to move the Oscar to the Q-tank set-up to increase the dosage and > to observe if the Oscar is eating/pooping, before looking at other options > or treatments. At least, that is what I would do. > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right > side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) > > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On > Behalf Of sevenspringss > Sent: Tuesday, September 01, 2009 12:43 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: oscar ill > > Mo, I'm sorry to say, but I didn't give you ANY directions with teaspoons. > As it's alway much easier to follow, it'a always a good idea to remain > consistent. The directions I gave you were in in Tbs (Tablespoons). From > now on, I'll spell it out each time. By using teaspoons instead of > Tablespoons, you've used far less epsom salt this second time than was > intended (and needed). Go back and figure that amount in Tbs (Tablespoons) > in place of the teaspoons you've used, and add in the difference. Ray > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "moiragrubb2000" <moiragrubb2000@> > wrote: > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@> > wrote: > > > > > lenny the only reason i used both was because ray did i dont know if > > u s calculations are different from british but our calc are 2tsp per > > dessert spoon and 2 dessert to a tbs which makes 4 tsp to a tbs i > > think ray probably used both to make raising the dose easier because i > > was treating the main tank he advised starting at 1 tablespoon per 10 > > us gallon then slowly raising it by 2 thirds of a teaspoonper 10 > > gallon this is all becoming a bit confusing and to make it worse i > > dont have a tbs so was using a dessert spoon so if i start again i > > initially put in 18 dessert spoons then added another 8teaspoons 16 > > hours later my head is starting to spin but i dont think ive went > > above the top dosage of 1 tbsp per 5 us gallons mo > > > > > Mo, > > > > > > Re-post your dosages... or confirm what I am writing just to make > > > sure there are not typos. You started off by saying "9 tbs" (tbs = > > > tablespoons?) and at first I was thinking you meant tsp = teaspoons, > > > but then you followed that with "8 tsp" but then you state a total > > > of "11 tbs" but that would be equating "8 tsp" to be only 2 Tbsp > > > whereas a level Tbsp is equal to 3 teaspoons so your total dosage, > > > according to my calculations would be 11 2/3 Tbsp., so right now you > > > are at 35 teaspoons in your 84G tank, or .416 teaspoons per gallon > (U.S.) right now. > > > > > > Since Ray instructed to gradually raise the Epsom Salt level to 1 > > > Tbsp (level tablespoon) per 5G (U.S.) (which would be equal to 6 > > > teaspoons per > > > 10G) and you have an 84G (U.S.) tank, that would be a total of 17 > > > Tbsp. (for 85G U.S.)(which would be equal to 51 teaspoons). This > > > would be equal to 6 teaspoons per 10G. I'm making these conversions > > > so that you will be able to properly dose the replacement water for > > > the Q-tank... and because, personally, I like using teaspoons per > > > gallon or 10G rather than Tbsp per 5G for calculating and dosing. > > > I've seen too many people (or maybe it's just me.. lol) get confused > > > when trying to use the Tbsp measure for dosing their tanks... or > > > even for cooking for that matter. :-P > > > > > > Since all of the fish in the main tank are now acclimated to this > > > harder water, you would normally want to slowly lower the water back > > > to normal but since you now plan to move the Oscar, you will want > > > his new Q-tank to have at least half of his tank water and then move > > > the Oscar to that 1/2 filled Q-tank. Then, prepare the water for > > > topping off the Q-tank by using your dechlor and dosing that water > > > to the same Epsom Salt level that is in the main tank now and then top > off the Q-tank with that water. > > > > > > Then you can top off the main tank with normal dechlored water to > > > start lowering the Epsom Salt level in that tank slowly back to > > > normal. It will take several more 25% PWC's to get it completely > > > back to normal. I'm presuming that the main tank will only lose > > > around 25% or less of it's water volume when you use some of the > > > main tank water in the Q-tank to fill it at least 1/2 way. You can > > > easily use up to 25% of the main tank's water in the Q-tank so if it > > > fills up the Q-tank even more than 1/2 way, that would be even > > > better to keep the fish from having to deal with too much of a water > change while it's dealing with all of the other changes. > > > > > > From now on, when dosing or keeping track of your dosages or posting > > > them, do NOT mix Tbsp and tsp so you don't get mixed up with knowing > > > the total volume or so that others do not inadvertently pick up the > > > numbers wrong when replying. I've seen many of mixed up threads of > > > advice being given in forums due to this problem. > > > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles > > > referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, > > > alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of moiragrubb2000 > > > Sent: Tuesday, September 01, 2009 10:04 AM > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: oscar ill > > > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "sevenspringss" <sevenspringss@> > > > wrote: > > > > > > > ray just to double check before i set up tank my initialdose was 9 > > > tbs followed by another 8 tsp this morning which was about 16 hours > > > later that was 9am this morning bmt 7 hours ago so think thats > > > roughly 11 tbs in tank so going by that would you reccommend using > > > half his water or half another tanks water along side treated fresh > > > water sorry for being a pain but just want to be sure im all ready > > > to set it up had to go out earlier so couldnt answer your post at > > > the time cheers mo > > > > > > > Yes, I don't know why yahoo posted them in the reverse order. > > > > Sorry it > > > confused you. I thought it best to answer them in the order Yahoo > > > posted them to prevent any confusion, as usually the messages are > > > read from the top down (first one first) in your In Box. > > > > > > > > Anyway, in answer to the epsom salt, I see you've given the Oscar > > > > his initial dosage. I still don't know what you've decided on > > > > giving him, as the initial amount of this epsom salt dosage. In > > > > any event, it shouldn't have any adverse effect on medications, > > > > that I can see, and as I reminded you, the amount of epsom salt > > > > being used will be diluted in half when you make up the water for > > > > the container. While on this subject, I'd just like to clarify > > > > the statement I made about trying to keep the osmotic pressure at > > > > a minimum. That should read read, to keep the osmotic pressure > > > > difference at a minimum. Ray > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, moira grubb <moiragrubb2000@> > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > cheers ray i did notice the messages were wrong way lol it > > > > > caused me a bit of confusion  i take it the epsom salt wouldnt > > > > > have an adverse effect on any medication  mo > > > > > --- On Tue, 1/9/09, sevenspringss <sevenspringss@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > From: sevenspringss <sevenspringss@> > > > > > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: oscar ill > > > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > > > > Date: Tuesday, 1 September, 2009, 12:12 PM > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >   > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I've approved your last two messages in the > > > > > order that you sent them, one at 4:25 AM EDT and the other at > > > > > 6:35 AM EDT but I see Yahoo chose to post them in the reverse > > > > > order -- So I'll address them in their present order. Too bad > > > > > about the most obvious stores for carrying this product not > > > > > having it, but at least you found it. Glad to see you've already > started treatment with it. > > > > > Also nice to see that you're prepared with a spare heater and > > > > > filter. If this filter is not cycled, just take some filter > > > > > media from your established filter and stuff it into this one. > > > > > Fill the container with 1/2 water from his tank and 1/2 water > > > > > from the tap (treated); well, don't quite "fill" it, unless you > > > > > (preferably) have a clear top for it. Leave at least 4" (5", if > > > > > the container is deep > > > > > enough) of space to help ensure he doesn't jump out. Ray > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > --- In AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com, "moiragrubb2000" > > > > > <moiragrubb2000@ > > > ...> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > --- In AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com, "sevenspringss" > > > > > > <sevenspringss@ > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > i have already started treatment and have upped the dosage > > > > > > today believe it or not none of my local supermarkets sold > > > > > > this and tried 4 pharmacys before finding this at s small > > > > > > chemist unbelievable i was going to set up aclear storage box > > > > > > i had but wasnt as big as i thought so sent hubby to get the > > > > > > biggest he can find and going to set it up today i have got > > > > > > spare heater and filter refering bacck to my prev post what > > > > > > water would you recommend i use mo > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Any supermarket or pharmacy has epsom salt, so you should > > > > > > > have been > > > able to find it easily. Not all fish stores have it as it's not > > > necessarily an aquarium hobby related item. We only recommend it > > > knowing that it usually works as well on fish as a laxative as well > > > as it works on humans (in the form of Milk of Magnesia). > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > He may be rubbing his belly in attempts to dislodge the > blockage. > > > While he may have internal bacteria or parasites, which remains yet > > > unseen, an attempt at treating him for intestinal blockage should > > > see improvement within 12 to 24 hours if that's the problem and > > > should be started ASAP if only to determine whether further steps > > > may be needed for treating possible internal pathogen issues. A > > > fish of 14" can go without eating for a month (six weeks, but that > > > would be stretching it to the point of probable no return), but then > > > you did say that he hasn't eaten for a little while now already. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > If it comes down to it, internal pathogen medications should > > > > > > > be done in isolation. Consider a cheap container of any > > > > > > > type (doesn't need to be an "aquarium") large enough to > > > > > > > house either him or the other fish to separate him for > > > > > > > treating if it becomes necessary. At such possible time, > > > > > > > you will most probably need another heater for this > > > > > > > container, depending on your ambient temperatures. Ray > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > --- In AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com, "moiragrubb2000" > > > <moiragrubb2000@ > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > --- In AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com, "sevenspringss" > > > <sevenspringss@ > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ray i had a bit of bother getting epsom salts as lot of > > > > > > > > shops dont sell it but got it today and is in tank would > > > > > > > > appreciate your advice on whether i can treat tank with > > > > > > > > this in just worried that maybe he got internal bacteria > > > > > > > > would i be able to put an internal bacteria in tank or > > > > > > > > would i be better holding fire to see what happens i > > > > > > > > notice that he seems to be rubbing his belly gently on the > > > > > > > > driftwood that what it looks like anyway how long can a > > > > > > > > fish this size go without eating mo > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Those measurements using Epsom Salt in amounts of water > > > > > > > > > are in > > > U.S. Gallons. This often works and is sure worth a try. As you > > > have no other large tank to isolate either the Oscar or the Pleco, > > > you may try the treatment in your 70 Imperial Gallon (84 U.S, > > > Gallon) tank, starting out at half-strength (1 Tbp. per 10 U.S, > > > Gallons). Reports I've read indicate that Plecos will be fine at 1 > > > Tbs. (Tablespoon) of Epsom Salt per 5 U.S. gallons (and even more), > > > but it's always easier on any fish when introducing a foreign substance > to graduate it in increments over time. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Scale-less fish do not react to Epsom Salt (Magnesium > > > > > > > > > Sulfate) > > > in as a severe manner as they do with the use of Table Salt (Sodium > > > Chloride), as it's the chloride the penetrates the skin with > > > burning/toxic results when using Table Salt, whereas Epsom Salt's > > > sulfate may promote irritation of the skin in higher concentrations. > > > As long as this concentration is kept low enough, it will not > > > irritate him. The 1 Tbs. per 10 U.S. gallons may be all that is > > > necessary to have a positive effect on your Oscar and is were I > > > would start -- or even less, but it's good to know it can be > > > increased and still be safe for the Pleco when kept below the > > > afore-mentioned amount. As with any unknown process in how it may > > > effect a fish, it's best to observe for stress in which case you may > > > do a 1/3 PWC to decrease the concentration should the need arise, > although this should not be necessary -- but just to know what can be done > if needed. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Give the 1 Tbs per 10 U.S. gallons (or less) time (at > > > > > > > > > least > > > > > > > > > 12 hours) to work before considering increasing the > > > > > > > > > concentration. Some hobbyists report success with > > > > > > > > > smaller gut-blocked fish with using as little as 1/8 tsp. > per U.S. > > > > > > > > > Gallon, but since other reports indicate using as much > > > > > > > > > as double the amount I've indicated, I find these > > > > > > > > > extremes of much less and much more to be excesses (too > > > > > > > > > little or too > > > > > > > > > much) to one direction or the other to effect a treatment. > > > > > > > > > Ray > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > --- In AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com, "moiragrubb2000" > > > <moiragrubb2000@ > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > --- In AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com, "sevenspringss" > > > <sevenspringss@ > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > thanks ray were the measurements for epsom salts in > > > > > > > > > > imp gallons or us gallons mo > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Unfortunately, there's no magic wand that goes along > > > > > > > > > > > with > > > the epsom salt remedy for constipation in fish. It may take as > > > little as 12 hours, or it may take 24 or even more hours -- if it > > > works. As this is but one method of attepting a cure for intestinal > > > blockage, it may not even work in all cases, but it's a > > > well-recognize and old treatment towards effecting a cure. It's not > > > 100% guaranteed, but neither are green peas; although this can be > > > tried whether or not a fish is eating, whereas peas (often promoting > bowel movements in fish) has little hope if the fish isn't eating. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Percentage of water to take out? I'm guessing you > > > > > > > > > > > mean as the part of regular PWC (partial water > > > > > > > > > > > changes) of normal aquarium maintenance. Normally, > > > > > > > > > > > hobbyists change from 1/4 to 1/3 of their tank > > > > > > > > > > > weekly, but this also depends on the bioload. You > > > > > > > > > > > could try 15% to 20% twice a week, testing as you go > > > > > > > > > > > for the usual ammonia, nitrite and nitrate > > > > > > > > > > > parameters which we are trying to keep at safe > > > > > > > > > > > levels when doing these PWC's -- then go from there > > > > > > > > > > > according to these tests results, either increasing > > > > > > > > > > > or decreasing as the case may be. If you prefer > > > > > > > > > > > doing smaller, more frequent PWC's, start off with > > > > > > > > > > > 10% every other day. Ray > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > --- In AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com, "moiragrubb2000" > > > <moiragrubb2000@ > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > --- In AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com, > > > > > > > > > > > > sevenspringss@ > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > my problem at the moment is isolating him how > > > > > > > > > > > > > long would the epsom salts take to work do you think > . > > > > > > > > > > > > > the longer he is going without eating the more > > > > > > > > > > > > > worried im getting could you also answer my > > > > > > > > > > > > > question on how much percent of water safe to > > > > > > > > > > > > > take out if i was doing 2 to 3 a week cheers mo > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Mo, At first thought, I too figured this problem > > > > > > > > > > > > > may have had something to > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > do with the freeze dried food, but that seemed > > > > > > > > > > > > > too "obvious," so I was > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > looking for possible water quality issues. > > > > > > > > > > > > > You're apparently maintaining this > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > aquarium properly though, so we come right back > > > > > > > > > > > > > to this food. For treating > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > with Epsom Salts, try using 1 Tbp per 5 gallons, > > > > > > > > > > > > > if it seems he's constipated > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -- and if you can isolate him. Pleco's don't > > > > > > > > > > > > > like too much table salt and > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I'm not sure if they take kindly to Epsom Salts > > > > > > > > > > > > > either. For treating initial > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > stages of some internal issues, some hobbyists > > > > > > > > > > > > > increase the amount of Epsom > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Salts slowly to 1 tsp per gallon (or more) -- > > > > > > > > > > > > > that's > > > > > > > > > > > > > 1 2/3 Tsp per 5 > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > gallons -- but the fish must be observed that he > > > > > > > > > > > > > doesn't get stressed. Ray > > > > > > > > > > ------------------------------------ > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. > ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> > PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to > the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT > LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- > <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. > > If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of unsubscribing, you > can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the > home page. > > Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com to receive the digest, which > includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email > > Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com for the No E-Mail option where > you will still be able to read messages on the group and post replies. > > Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com to receive individual > e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 43059	From: sevenspringss	Date: 9/1/2009
Subject: Re: oscar ill

Mo, Just wanted to let you know that I wrote you on this about 4 hours ago, but it did not go through. Yes, your partially right in that I did not use "Tbs." (nor did I use "tsp.") in some sentences. To clarify, as I notice in looking back at them, in my message of 8/28 at 7:02 PM EDT (would that be 8/29, 12:02 AM Greenwich Time - London?), I inadvertantly used Tbp., a none-descript combination of both, and I also used Tsp., another none-descript abbreviation since it's capitalized. Tbs. abbreviated as such, and capitalized is correct for Tablespoon, and tsp., abbreviated as such, and using all smakll letters is correct for teaspoon. Anything else is an erroneous conglomeration. I note too, that while I used Tbs. properly at 3 different times in my post of 8/29 at 9:18 AM EDT, I also used Tbp. once, again -- a none-descript error. While I meant Tbs., you could have no way of knowing, but it's too bad you didn't catch them for the errors they were, since they were not properly spelled abbreviations. To avoid any confusion, I'll also spell the words out for you in the future. I'm glad to hear that the Oscar is perking up. Do not consider reducing the amount of epsom salt yet, until you see him eat and defecate, to know any blockage has cleared. At that time, you may do a PWC of 25% the first day, 33% the 3rd day, 50% the 5th day and 50% the 7th day. This will bring the salts down to about 2 Tablespoons for the entire 84 U.S. Gallon tank, which is miniscule. Further regular water changes will eliminate it over time. Ray --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "moiragrubb2000" <moiragrubb2000@...> wrote: > > > > ray maybe it was accidental but you did write tbs and tsp in your original dosage but i should have double checked any how looks like the epsom salts are working my oscar seems to be perking up im keeping my fingers crossed that what i need to know next is how to reduce the amount tsanks mo --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, sevenspringss@ wrote: > > > Mo, At first thought, I too figured this problem may have had something to > > do with the freeze dried food, but that seemed too "obvious," so I was > > looking for possible water quality issues. You're apparently maintaining this > > aquarium properly though, so we come right back to this food. For treating > > with Epsom Salts, try using 1 Tbp per 5 gallons, if it seems he's constipated > > -- and if you can isolate him. Pleco's don't like too much table salt and > > I'm not sure if they take kindly to Epsom Salts either. For treating initial > > stages of some internal issues, some hobbyists increase the amount of Epsom > > Salts slowly to 1 tsp per gallon (or more) -- that's 1 2/3 Tsp per 5 > > gallons -- but the fish must be observed that he doesn't get stressed. Ray > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 43060	From: sevenspringss	Date: 9/1/2009
Subject: Re: oscar ill

From the looks of this, you may be thinking that the additional epsom salt is not needed -- and you may be right -- but before considering curtailing the additional salt just make sure he's really improving. Postive results have been effected by using only the amount of salts you now have in the tank, but it always pays to be sure. In the event that he may not yet be eating, it's good to know that there's nothing lost (except time) in resuming the salts treatment (to full dosage) at any time during the next 24 hours if necessary. Ray --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "moiragrubb2000" <moiragrubb2000@...> wrote: > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "sevenspringss" <sevenspringss@> wrote: > > > cheers ray will rectify that .looks like its starting to work anyway thank goodness i think my e mails seem to be taking ages to get through lol youd think they were walking from scotland to america im getting answers from you guys before my e mails are even showing on my computer mo > > > Mo, Just to clarify, your initial dose for the 84 U.S. Gallon tank should have been 8.4 Tbs (Tablespoons) -- or, for Lenny, 25.2 teaspoons, [but 9 Tbs (Tablespoons) -- 27 teaspoons is close enough]: just keep in mind that there's 1.8 teaspoons extra in there. > > > > You needed to add another 8.4 Tablespoons for the second dosing. If you've just recently added 8 teaspoons (2 2/3 Tablespoons -- let's call it 2.6 Tablespoons), you'll need to add an additional 5.8 Tablespoons (or, 17.4 teaspoons) to make up the difference of what should should have added, but didn't. Keeping in mind you added an extra 0.6 Tablespoon (1.8 teaspoon) in the beginning, you can deduct that amount and instead add 5.2 Tablespoons (15.6 teaspoons) of epsom salt in addition to what you've added, for the total amount needed. Ray > > > > > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "moiragrubb2000" <moiragrubb2000@> wrote: > > > > > > > ray just to double check before i set up tank my initialdose was 9 tbs followed by another 8 tsp this morning which was about 16 hours later that was 9am this morning bmt 7 hours ago so think thats roughly 11 tbs in tank so going by that would you reccommend using half his water or half another tanks water along side treated fresh water sorry for being a pain but just want to be sure im all ready to set it up had to go out earlier so couldnt answer your post at the time cheers mo > > > > > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "sevenspringss" <sevenspringss@> wrote: > > > > > > > Yes, I don't know why yahoo posted them in the reverse order. Sorry it confused you. I thought it best to answer them in the order Yahoo posted them to prevent any confusion, as usually the messages are read from the top down (first one first) in your In Box. > > > > > > > > Anyway, in answer to the epsom salt, I see you've given the Oscar his initial dosage. I still don't know what you've decided on giving him, as the initial amount of this epsom salt dosage. In any event, it shouldn't have any adverse effect on medications, that I can see, and as I reminded you, the amount of epsom salt being used will be diluted in half when you make up the water for the container. While on this subject, I'd just like to clarify the statement I made about trying to keep the osmotic pressure at a minimum. That should read read, to keep the osmotic pressure difference at a minimum. Ray > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, moira grubb <moiragrubb2000@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > cheers ray i did notice the messages were wrong way lol it caused me a bit of confusion  i take it the epsom salt wouldnt have an adverse effect on any medication  mo > > > > > --- On Tue, 1/9/09, sevenspringss <sevenspringss@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > From: sevenspringss <sevenspringss@> > > > > > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: oscar ill > > > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > > > > Date: Tuesday, 1 September, 2009, 12:12 PM > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >   > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I've approved your last two messages in the order that you sent them, one at 4:25 AM EDT and the other at 6:35 AM EDT but I see Yahoo chose to post them in the reverse order -- So I'll address them in their present order. Too bad about the most obvious stores for carrying this product not having it, but at least you found it. Glad to see you've already started treatment with it. Also nice to see that you're prepared with a spare heater and filter. If this filter is not cycled, just take some filter media from your established filter and stuff it into this one. Fill the container with 1/2 water from his tank and 1/2 water from the tap (treated); well, don't quite "fill" it, unless you (preferably) have a clear top for it. Leave at least 4" (5", if the container is deep enough) of space to help ensure he doesn't jump out. Ray > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > --- In AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com, "moiragrubb2000" <moiragrubb2000@ ...> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > --- In AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com, "sevenspringss" <sevenspringss@ > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > i have already started treatment and have upped the dosage today believe it or not none of my local supermarkets sold this and tried 4 pharmacys before finding this at s small chemist unbelievable i was going to set up aclear storage box i had but wasnt as big as i thought so sent hubby to get the biggest he can find and going to set it up today i have got spare heater and filter refering bacck to my prev post what water would you recommend i use mo > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Any supermarket or pharmacy has epsom salt, so you should have been able to find it easily. Not all fish stores have it as it's not necessarily an aquarium hobby related item. We only recommend it knowing that it usually works as well on fish as a laxative as well as it works on humans (in the form of Milk of Magnesia). > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > He may be rubbing his belly in attempts to dislodge the blockage. While he may have internal bacteria or parasites, which remains yet unseen, an attempt at treating him for intestinal blockage should see improvement within 12 to 24 hours if that's the problem and should be started ASAP if only to determine whether further steps may be needed for treating possible internal pathogen issues. A fish of 14" can go without eating for a month (six weeks, but that would be stretching it to the point of probable no return), but then you did say that he hasn't eaten for a little while now already. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > If it comes down to it, internal pathogen medications should be done in isolation. Consider a cheap container of any type (doesn't need to be an "aquarium") large enough to house either him or the other fish to separate him for treating if it becomes necessary. At such possible time, you will most probably need another heater for this container, depending on your ambient temperatures. Ray > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > --- In AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com, "moiragrubb2000" <moiragrubb2000@ > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > --- In AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com, "sevenspringss" <sevenspringss@ > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ray i had a bit of bother getting epsom salts as lot of shops dont sell it but got it today and is in tank would appreciate your advice on whether i can treat tank with this in just worried that maybe he got internal bacteria would i be able to put an internal bacteria in tank or would i be better holding fire to see what happens i notice that he seems to be rubbing his belly gently on the driftwood that what it looks like anyway how long can a fish this size go without eating mo > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Those measurements using Epsom Salt in amounts of water are in U.S. Gallons. This often works and is sure worth a try. As you have no other large tank to isolate either the Oscar or the Pleco, you may try the treatment in your 70 Imperial Gallon (84 U.S, Gallon) tank, starting out at half-strength (1 Tbp. per 10 U.S, Gallons). Reports I've read indicate that Plecos will be fine at 1 Tbs. (Tablespoon) of Epsom Salt per 5 U.S. gallons (and even more), but it's always easier on any fish when introducing a foreign substance to graduate it in increments over time. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Scale-less fish do not react to Epsom Salt (Magnesium Sulfate) in as a severe manner as they do with the use of Table Salt (Sodium Chloride), as it's the chloride the penetrates the skin with burning/toxic results when using Table Salt, whereas Epsom Salt's sulfate may promote irritation of the skin in higher concentrations. As long as this concentration is kept low enough, it will not irritate him. The 1 Tbs. per 10 U.S. gallons may be all that is necessary to have a positive effect on your Oscar and is were I would start -- or even less, but it's good to know it can be increased and still be safe for the Pleco when kept below the afore-mentioned amount. As with any unknown process in how it may effect a fish, it's best to observe for stress in which case you may do a 1/3 PWC to decrease the concentration should the need arise, although this should not be necessary -- but just to know what can be done if needed. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Give the 1 Tbs per 10 U.S. gallons (or less) time (at least 12 hours) to work before considering increasing the concentration. Some hobbyists report success with smaller gut-blocked fish with using as little as 1/8 tsp. per U.S. Gallon, but since other reports indicate using as much as double the amount I've indicated, I find these extremes of much less and much more to be excesses (too little or too much) to one direction or the other to effect a treatment. Ray > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > --- In AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com, "moiragrubb2000" <moiragrubb2000@ > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > --- In AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com, "sevenspringss" <sevenspringss@ > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > thanks ray were the measurements for epsom salts in imp gallons or us gallons mo > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Unfortunately, there's no magic wand that goes along with the epsom salt remedy for constipation in fish. It may take as little as 12 hours, or it may take 24 or even more hours -- if it works. As this is but one method of attepting a cure for intestinal blockage, it may not even work in all cases, but it's a well-recognize and old treatment towards effecting a cure. It's not 100% guaranteed, but neither are green peas; although this can be tried whether or not a fish is eating, whereas peas (often promoting bowel movements in fish) has little hope if the fish isn't eating. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Percentage of water to take out? I'm guessing you mean as the part of regular PWC (partial water changes) of normal aquarium maintenance. Normally, hobbyists change from 1/4 to 1/3 of their tank weekly, but this also depends on the bioload. You could try 15% to 20% twice a week, testing as you go for the usual ammonia, nitrite and nitrate parameters which we are trying to keep at safe levels when doing these PWC's -- then go from there according to these tests results, either increasing or decreasing as the case may be. If you prefer doing smaller, more frequent PWC's, start off with 10% every other day. Ray > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > --- In AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com, "moiragrubb2000" <moiragrubb2000@ > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > --- In AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com, sevenspringss@ wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > my problem at the moment is isolating him how long would the epsom salts take to work do you think . the longer he is going without eating the more worried im getting could you also answer my question on how much percent of water safe to take out if i was doing 2 to 3 a week cheers mo > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Mo, At first thought, I too figured this problem may have had something to > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > do with the freeze dried food, but that seemed too "obvious," so I was > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > looking for possible water quality issues. You're apparently maintaining this > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > aquarium properly though, so we come right back to this food. For treating > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > with Epsom Salts, try using 1 Tbp per 5 gallons, if it seems he's constipated > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -- and if you can isolate him. Pleco's don't like too much table salt and > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I'm not sure if they take kindly to Epsom Salts either. For treating initial > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > stages of some internal issues, some hobbyists increase the amount of Epsom > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Salts slowly to 1 tsp per gallon (or more) -- that's 1 2/3 Tsp per 5 > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > gallons -- but the fish must be observed that he doesn't get stressed. Ray > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 43061	From: toddswoman496861@aim.com	Date: 9/1/2009
Subject: Re: oscar ill

yes at least in liquid form it is. Kate Dale -----Original Message----- From: moiragrubb2000 <moiragrubb2000@...> To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Tue, Sep 1, 2009 3:47 pm Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: oscar ill --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@...> wrote: > lenny i think our teaspoons are 5mls so either our tablespoons are 20mls or the calculater i went to was wrong but when i went to school we were taught 2 tsp for dessert and 2 dessert for a tbsp but now im going to double check it lol managed to figure it all out anyway with rays help he calculated how much more i had to add you guys are a fab help mo > Mo, > > Do you have any measuring spoons that are calibrated in ml? Not that it's > critical at this point since salt has a built in margin of error unless one > is way overdosing but it would be a good thing to check your spoons to see > how many ml's they hold in a level spoon full. Or we could convert our Tbsp > and tsp measurements to ml for uniformity. Since you've been using spoons > that are already known to be different than the measurements we've been > talking about, I'd at least like to see what your two different spoons > really measure out to in ml's compared to what our tsp and Tbsp measure out > to in ml's so we will know if you are already peaked out or if you are still > way under dosage? > > Lenny Vasbinder 0A> Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right > side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) > > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On > Behalf Of moiragrubb2000 > Sent: Tuesday, September 01, 2009 1:51 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: oscar ill > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, sevenspringss@ wrote: > > > ray maybe it was accidental but you did write tbs and tsp in your original > dosage but i should have double checked any how looks like the epsom salts > are working my oscar seems to be perking up im keeping my fingers crossed > that what i need to know next is how to reduce the amount tsanks mo > > > Mo, At first thought, I too figured this problem may have had > > something to do with the freeze dried food, but that seemed too > > "obvious," so I was looking for possible water quality issues. You're > > apparently maintaining this aquarium properly though, so we come right > > back to this food. For treating with Epsom Salts, try using 1 Tbp per > > 5 gallons, if it seems he's constipated > > -- and if you can isolate him. Pleco's don't like too much table salt > > and I'm not sure if they take kindly to Epsom Salts either. For > > treating initial stages of some internal issues, some hobbyists > > increase the amount of Epsom Salts slow ly to 1 tsp per gallon (or > > more) -- that's 1 2/3 Tsp per 5 gallons -- but the fish must be > > observed that he doesn't get stressed. Ray > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > > > > ------------------------------------ > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. > ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> > PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to > the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT > LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- > <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. > > If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of unsubscribing, you > can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the > home page. > > Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com to receive the digest, which > includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email > > Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com for the No E-Mail option where > you will still be able to read messages on the group and post replies. > > Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com to re ceive individual > e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links > ------------------------------------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the home page. Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com to receive the digest, which includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com for the No E-Mail option where you will still be able to read messages on the group and post replies. Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com to receive individual e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links (Yahoo! ID required) [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 43062	From: moiragrubb2000	Date: 9/1/2009
Subject: Re: oscar ill

--- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "sevenspringss" <sevenspringss@...> wrote: > ray i just went ahead and rectified the dosage when i got your email on the correct dosage he definately looking better but i wont start to reduce until im sure all is well then will follow your guidelines sorry about all the confusion over tablespoons and teaspoons lol but least i got there in the end thanks again you have been a great help mo > From the looks of this, you may be thinking that the additional epsom salt is not needed -- and you may be right -- but before considering curtailing the additional salt just make sure he's really improving. Postive results have been effected by using only the amount of salts you now have in the tank, but it always pays to be sure. In the event that he may not yet be eating, it's good to know that there's nothing lost (except time) in resuming the salts treatment (to full dosage) at any time during the next 24 hours if necessary. Ray > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "moiragrubb2000" <moiragrubb2000@> wrote: > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "sevenspringss" <sevenspringss@> wrote: > > > > > cheers ray will rectify that .looks like its starting to work anyway thank goodness i think my e mails seem to be taking ages to get through lol youd think they were walking from scotland to america im getting answers from you guys before my e mails are even showing on my computer mo > > > > > Mo, Just to clarify, your initial dose for the 84 U.S. Gallon tank should have been 8.4 Tbs (Tablespoons) -- or, for Lenny, 25.2 teaspoons, [but 9 Tbs (Tablespoons) -- 27 teaspoons is close enough]: just keep in mind that there's 1.8 teaspoons extra in there. > > > > > > You needed to add another 8.4 Tablespoons for the second dosing. If you've just recently added 8 teaspoons (2 2/3 Tablespoons -- let's call it 2.6 Tablespoons), you'll need to add an additional 5.8 Tablespoons (or, 17.4 teaspoons) to make up the difference of what should should have added, but didn't. Keeping in mind you added an extra 0.6 Tablespoon (1.8 teaspoon) in the beginning, you can deduct that amount and instead add 5.2 Tablespoons (15.6 teaspoons) of epsom salt in addition to what you've added, for the total amount needed. Ray > > > > > > > > > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "moiragrubb2000" <moiragrubb2000@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > ray just to double check before i set up tank my initialdose was 9 tbs followed by another 8 tsp this morning which was about 16 hours later that was 9am this morning bmt 7 hours ago so think thats roughly 11 tbs in tank so going by that would you reccommend using half his water or half another tanks water along side treated fresh water sorry for being a pain but just want to be sure im all ready to set it up had to go out earlier so couldnt answer your post at the time cheers mo > > > > > > > > > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "sevenspringss" <sevenspringss@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > Yes, I don't know why yahoo posted them in the reverse order. Sorry it confused you. I thought it best to answer them in the order Yahoo posted them to prevent any confusion, as usually the messages are read from the top down (first one first) in your In Box. > > > > > > > > > > Anyway, in answer to the epsom salt, I see you've given the Oscar his initial dosage. I still don't know what you've decided on giving him, as the initial amount of this epsom salt dosage. In any event, it shouldn't have any adverse effect on medications, that I can see, and as I reminded you, the amount of epsom salt being used will be diluted in half when you make up the water for the container. While on this subject, I'd just like to clarify the statement I made about trying to keep the osmotic pressure at a minimum. That should read read, to keep the osmotic pressure difference at a minimum. Ray > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, moira grubb <moiragrubb2000@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > cheers ray i did notice the messages were wrong way lol it caused me a bit of confusion  i take it the epsom salt wouldnt have an adverse effect on any medication  mo > > > > > > --- On Tue, 1/9/09, sevenspringss <sevenspringss@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > From: sevenspringss <sevenspringss@> > > > > > > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: oscar ill > > > > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > > > > > Date: Tuesday, 1 September, 2009, 12:12 PM > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >   > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I've approved your last two messages in the order that you sent them, one at 4:25 AM EDT and the other at 6:35 AM EDT but I see Yahoo chose to post them in the reverse order -- So I'll address them in their present order. Too bad about the most obvious stores for carrying this product not having it, but at least you found it. Glad to see you've already started treatment with it. Also nice to see that you're prepared with a spare heater and filter. If this filter is not cycled, just take some filter media from your established filter and stuff it into this one. Fill the container with 1/2 water from his tank and 1/2 water from the tap (treated); well, don't quite "fill" it, unless you (preferably) have a clear top for it. Leave at least 4" (5", if the container is deep enough) of space to help ensure he doesn't jump out. Ray > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > --- In AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com, "moiragrubb2000" <moiragrubb2000@ ...> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > --- In AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com, "sevenspringss" <sevenspringss@ > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > i have already started treatment and have upped the dosage today believe it or not none of my local supermarkets sold this and tried 4 pharmacys before finding this at s small chemist unbelievable i was going to set up aclear storage box i had but wasnt as big as i thought so sent hubby to get the biggest he can find and going to set it up today i have got spare heater and filter refering bacck to my prev post what water would you recommend i use mo > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Any supermarket or pharmacy has epsom salt, so you should have been able to find it easily. Not all fish stores have it as it's not necessarily an aquarium hobby related item. We only recommend it knowing that it usually works as well on fish as a laxative as well as it works on humans (in the form of Milk of Magnesia). > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > He may be rubbing his belly in attempts to dislodge the blockage. While he may have internal bacteria or parasites, which remains yet unseen, an attempt at treating him for intestinal blockage should see improvement within 12 to 24 hours if that's the problem and should be started ASAP if only to determine whether further steps may be needed for treating possible internal pathogen issues. A fish of 14" can go without eating for a month (six weeks, but that would be stretching it to the point of probable no return), but then you did say that he hasn't eaten for a little while now already. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > If it comes down to it, internal pathogen medications should be done in isolation. Consider a cheap container of any type (doesn't need to be an "aquarium") large enough to house either him or the other fish to separate him for treating if it becomes necessary. At such possible time, you will most probably need another heater for this container, depending on your ambient temperatures. Ray > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > --- In AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com, "moiragrubb2000" <moiragrubb2000@ > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > --- In AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com, "sevenspringss" <sevenspringss@ > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ray i had a bit of bother getting epsom salts as lot of shops dont sell it but got it today and is in tank would appreciate your advice on whether i can treat tank with this in just worried that maybe he got internal bacteria would i be able to put an internal bacteria in tank or would i be better holding fire to see what happens i notice that he seems to be rubbing his belly gently on the driftwood that what it looks like anyway how long can a fish this size go without eating mo > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Those measurements using Epsom Salt in amounts of water are in U.S. Gallons. This often works and is sure worth a try. As you have no other large tank to isolate either the Oscar or the Pleco, you may try the treatment in your 70 Imperial Gallon (84 U.S, Gallon) tank, starting out at half-strength (1 Tbp. per 10 U.S, Gallons). Reports I've read indicate that Plecos will be fine at 1 Tbs. (Tablespoon) of Epsom Salt per 5 U.S. gallons (and even more), but it's always easier on any fish when introducing a foreign substance to graduate it in increments over time. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Scale-less fish do not react to Epsom Salt (Magnesium Sulfate) in as a severe manner as they do with the use of Table Salt (Sodium Chloride), as it's the chloride the penetrates the skin with burning/toxic results when using Table Salt, whereas Epsom Salt's sulfate may promote irritation of the skin in higher concentrations. As long as this concentration is kept low enough, it will not irritate him. The 1 Tbs. per 10 U.S. gallons may be all that is necessary to have a positive effect on your Oscar and is were I would start -- or even less, but it's good to know it can be increased and still be safe for the Pleco when kept below the afore-mentioned amount. As with any unknown process in how it may effect a fish, it's best to observe for stress in which case you may do a 1/3 PWC to decrease the concentration should the need arise, although this should not be necessary -- but just to know what can be done if needed. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Give the 1 Tbs per 10 U.S. gallons (or less) time (at least 12 hours) to work before considering increasing the concentration. Some hobbyists report success with smaller gut-blocked fish with using as little as 1/8 tsp. per U.S. Gallon, but since other reports indicate using as much as double the amount I've indicated, I find these extremes of much less and much more to be excesses (too little or too much) to one direction or the other to effect a treatment. Ray > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > --- In AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com, "moiragrubb2000" <moiragrubb2000@ > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > --- In AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com, "sevenspringss" <sevenspringss@ > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > thanks ray were the measurements for epsom salts in imp gallons or us gallons mo > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Unfortunately, there's no magic wand that goes along with the epsom salt remedy for constipation in fish. It may take as little as 12 hours, or it may take 24 or even more hours -- if it works. As this is but one method of attepting a cure for intestinal blockage, it may not even work in all cases, but it's a well-recognize and old treatment towards effecting a cure. It's not 100% guaranteed, but neither are green peas; although this can be tried whether or not a fish is eating, whereas peas (often promoting bowel movements in fish) has little hope if the fish isn't eating. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Percentage of water to take out? I'm guessing you mean as the part of regular PWC (partial water changes) of normal aquarium maintenance. Normally, hobbyists change from 1/4 to 1/3 of their tank weekly, but this also depends on the bioload. You could try 15% to 20% twice a week, testing as you go for the usual ammonia, nitrite and nitrate parameters which we are trying to keep at safe levels when doing these PWC's -- then go from there according to these tests results, either increasing or decreasing as the case may be. If you prefer doing smaller, more frequent PWC's, start off with 10% every other day. Ray > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > --- In AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com, "moiragrubb2000" <moiragrubb2000@ > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > --- In AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com, sevenspringss@ wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > my problem at the moment is isolating him how long would the epsom salts take to work do you think . the longer he is going without eating the more worried im getting could you also answer my question on how much percent of water safe to take out if i was doing 2 to 3 a week cheers mo > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Mo, At first thought, I too figured this problem may have had something to > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > do with the freeze dried food, but that seemed too "obvious," so I was > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > looking for possible water quality issues. You're apparently maintaining this > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > aquarium properly though, so we come right back to this food. For treating > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > with Epsom Salts, try using 1 Tbp per 5 gallons, if it seems he's constipated > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -- and if you can isolate him. Pleco's don't like too much table salt and > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I'm not sure if they take kindly to Epsom Salts either. For treating initial > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > stages of some internal issues, some hobbyists increase the amount of Epsom > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Salts slowly to 1 tsp per gallon (or more) -- that's 1 2/3 Tsp per 5 > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > gallons -- but the fish must be observed that he doesn't get stressed. Ray > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 43063	From: moiragrubb2000	Date: 9/2/2009
Subject: Re: oscar ill

--- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, toddswoman496861@... wrote: > yes well im just going by a medicine spoon but these days your probably better using real spoon measures as normal spoons all seem to be different sizes mo > > yes at least in liquid form it is. > > > > > > Kate Dale > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: moiragrubb2000 <moiragrubb2000@...> > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Sent: Tue, Sep 1, 2009 3:47 pm > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: oscar ill > > > > > > > > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@> > wrote: > > > lenny i think our teaspoons are 5mls so either our tablespoons are 20mls or the > calculater i went to was wrong but when i went to school we were taught 2 tsp > for dessert and 2 dessert for a tbsp but now im going to double check it lol > managed to figure it all out anyway with rays help he calculated how much more i > had to add you guys are a fab help mo > > > Mo, > > > > Do you have any measuring spoons that are calibrated in ml? Not that it's > > critical at this point since salt has a built in margin of error unless one > > is way overdosing but it would be a good thing to check your spoons to see > > how many ml's they hold in a level spoon full. Or we could convert our Tbsp > > and tsp measurements to ml for uniformity. Since you've been using spoons > > that are already known to be different than the measurements we've been > > talking about, I'd at least like to see what your two different spoons > > really measure out to in ml's compared to what our tsp and Tbsp measure out > > to in ml's so we will know if you are already peaked out or if you are still > > way under dosage? > > > > Lenny Vasbinder 0A> Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > > (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right > > side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On > > Behalf Of moiragrubb2000 > > Sent: Tuesday, September 01, 2009 1:51 PM > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: oscar ill > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, sevenspringss@ wrote: > > > > > ray maybe it was accidental but you did write tbs and tsp in your original > > dosage but i should have double checked any how looks like the epsom salts > > are working my oscar seems to be perking up im keeping my fingers crossed > > that what i need to know next is how to reduce the amount tsanks mo > > > > > Mo, At first thought, I too figured this problem may have had > > > something to do with the freeze dried food, but that seemed too > > > "obvious," so I was looking for possible water quality issues. You're > > > apparently maintaining this aquarium properly though, so we come right > > > back to this food. For treating with Epsom Salts, try using 1 Tbp per > > > 5 gallons, if it seems he's constipated > > > -- and if you can isolate him. Pleco's don't like too much table salt > > > and I'm not sure if they take kindly to Epsom Salts either. For > > > treating initial stages of some internal issues, some hobbyists > > > increase the amount of Epsom Salts slow > ly to 1 tsp per gallon (or > > > more) -- that's 1 2/3 Tsp per 5 gallons -- but the fish must be > > > observed that he doesn't get stressed. Ray > > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > > > > > > > > > > ------------------------------------ > > > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. > > ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> > > PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to > > the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT > > LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- > > <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. > > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. > > > > If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of unsubscribing, you > > can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the > > home page. > > > > Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com to receive the digest, which > > includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email > > > > Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com for the No E-Mail option where > > you will still be able to read messages on the group and post replies. > > > > Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com to re > ceive individual > > e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > > ------------------------------------ > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. > ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> > PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the > reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> > i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- > <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. > > If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of unsubscribing, you can > change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the home > page. > > Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com to receive the digest, which > includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email > > Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com for the No E-Mail option where you > will still be able to read messages on the group and post replies. > > Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com to receive individual e-mails.Yahoo! > Groups Links > > (Yahoo! ID required) > > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 43064	From: moiragrubb2000	Date: 9/2/2009
Subject: Re: oscar ill

--- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@...> wrote: > lenny heres what i found on yahoo answers Best Answer - Chosen by Voters In America and Canada: 3 (5 ml) teaspoons = 1 tablespoon (15 ml) In Australia and the UK: 4 (5 ml) teaspoons = 1 tablespoon (20ml) Be very careful when using recipes from different English speaking countries. so that clears that up but its usefull to know as im sure im not the only uk resident in this group i was actually beginningb to think id been using the wrong measurements all my life lol mo > Here's a simple page with a calculator from U.S. measurements to Metric. > http://animal-world.com/encyclo/information/calculate.htm Click on the > "Liquid Measurement Conversions" to see that 1 teaspoon is equal to 5ml and > 1 tablespoon is equal to 15ml (since a Tbsp is equal to 3 tsp). At least, > if you have a metric measuring spoon(s), you can check the two spoons that > you have been using so we'll know how far off we are. > > For others reading this thread, that page also has other useful aquarium > calculators but I cannot vouch for other things on the site as I have not > looked over it enough to know so proceed with caution if browsing the site. > > > If I ever learn HTML, javascript, etc., I'll consider building my own > calculator page on my blog... but that will be a while. I know I could > probably "steal" the code from this page or others out there but I'd still > like to learn how to tweak it to my own style. LOL > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right > side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) > > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On > Behalf Of moiragrubb2000 > Sent: Tuesday, September 01, 2009 1:51 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: oscar ill > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, sevenspringss@ wrote: > > > ray maybe it was accidental but you did write tbs and tsp in your original > dosage but i should have double checked any how looks like the epsom salts > are working my oscar seems to be perking up im keeping my fingers crossed > that what i need to know next is how to reduce the amount tsanks mo > > > Mo, At first thought, I too figured this problem may have had > > something to do with the freeze dried food, but that seemed too > > "obvious," so I was looking for possible water quality issues. You're > > apparently maintaining this aquarium properly though, so we come right > > back to this food. For treating with Epsom Salts, try using 1 Tbp per > > 5 gallons, if it seems he's constipated > > -- and if you can isolate him. Pleco's don't like too much table salt > > and I'm not sure if they take kindly to Epsom Salts either. For > > treating initial stages of some internal issues, some hobbyists > > increase the amount of Epsom Salts slowly to 1 tsp per gallon (or > > more) -- that's 1 2/3 Tsp per 5 gallons -- but the fish must be > > observed that he doesn't get stressed. Ray > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > > > > ------------------------------------ > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. > ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> > PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to > the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT > LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- > <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. > > If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of unsubscribing, you > can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the > home page. > > Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com to receive the digest, which > includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email > > Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com for the No E-Mail option where > you will still be able to read messages on the group and post replies. > > Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com to receive individual > e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 43065	From: toddswoman496861@aim.com	Date: 9/2/2009
Subject: Re: oscar ill

that is true but having a mom who is a retired nurse helps me alot. best use measuring spoons that one would use for cooking as most have the conversions from tsp to ml already on them now days Kate Dale -----Original Message----- From: moiragrubb2000 <moiragrubb2000@...> To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Wed, Sep 2, 2009 4:06 am Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: oscar ill --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, toddswoman496861@... wrote: > yes well im just going by a medicine spoon but these days your probably better using real spoon measures as normal spoons all seem to be different sizes mo > > yes at least in liquid form it is. > > > > > > Kate Dale > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: moiragrubb2000 <moiragrubb2000@...> > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Sent: Tue, Sep 1, 2009 3:47 pm > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: oscar ill > > > > > > > > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@> > wrote: > > > lenny i think our teaspoons are 5mls so either our tablespoons are 20mls or the > calculater i went to was wrong but when i went to school we were taught 2 tsp > for dessert and 2 dessert for a tbsp but now im going to double check it lol > managed to figure it all out anyway with rays help he calculated how much more i > had to add you guys are a fab help mo > > > Mo, > > > > Do you have any measuring spoons that are calibrated in ml? Not that it's > > critical at this point since salt has a built in margin of error unless one > > is way overdosing but it would be a good thing to check your spoons to see > > how many ml's they hold in a level spoon full. Or we could convert our Tbsp > > and tsp measurements to ml for uniformity. Since you've been using spoons > > that are already known to be different than the measurements we've been > > talking about, I'd at least like to see what your two different spoons > > really measure out to in ml's compared to what our tsp and Tbsp measure out > > to in ml's so we will know if you are already peaked out or if you are still > > way under dosage? > > > > Lenny Vasbinder 0A> Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > > (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right > > side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On > > Behalf Of moiragrubb2000 > > Sent: Tuesday, September 01, 2009 1:51 PM > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: oscar ill > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, sevenspringss@ wrote: > > > > > ray maybe it was accidental but you did write tbs and tsp in your original > > dosage but i should have double checked any how looks like the epsom salts > > are wo rking my oscar seems to be perking up im keeping my fingers crossed > > that what i need to know next is how to reduce the amount tsanks mo > > > > > Mo, At first thought, I too figured this problem may have had > > > something to do with the freeze dried food, but that seemed too > > > "obvious," so I was looking for possible water quality issues. You're > > > apparently maintaining this aquarium properly though, so we come right > > > back to this food. For treating with Epsom Salts, try using 1 Tbp per > > > 5 gallons, if it seems he's constipated > > > -- and if you can isolate him. Pleco's don't like too much table salt > > > and I'm not sure if they take kindly to Epsom Salts either. For > > > treating initial stages of some internal issues, some hobbyists > > > increase the amount of Epsom Salts slow > ly to 1 tsp per gallon (or > > > more) -- that's 1 2/3 Tsp per 5 gallons -- but the fish must be > > > observed that he doesn't get stressed. Ray > > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > > > > > > > > > > ------------------------------------ > > > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. > > ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.ÂC2´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> > > PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to > > the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT > > LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- > > <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. > > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. > > > > If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of unsubscribing, you > > can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the > > home page. > > > > Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com to receive the digest, which > > includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email > > > > Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com for the No E-Mail option where > > you will still be able to read messages on the group and post replies. > > > > Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com to re > ceive individual > > e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > > ------------------------------------ > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. > ·´¯`·.¸¸.><(((( >.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> > PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the > reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> > i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- > <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. > > If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of unsubscribing, you can > change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the home > page. > > Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com to receive the digest, which > includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email > > Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com for the No E-Mail option where you > will still be able to read messages on the group and post replies. > > Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com to receive individual e-mails.Yahoo! > Groups Links > > (Yahoo! ID required) > > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of20this message have been removed] > ------------------------------------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the home page. Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com to receive the digest, which includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com for the No E-Mail option where you will still be able to read messages on the group and post replies. Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com to receive individual e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links (Yahoo! ID required) [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 43066	From: fishdudeut	Date: 9/2/2009
Subject: Fishless Cycle.

Fishless Cycle. Ok I have been in the process of doing a fishless cycle. I add the ammonia and it goes off the chart above the highest level of the test card (SUPER DARK GREEN). I let it set for a while and after about 6 or 7 days I saw it start to drop. I can add 30 ML of Ammonia to my 55 gallon tank and the next day (24 hours or so) it will be at 0. I started testing for nitrite and it made it about to 2 or 3 and now after about a week it's down to zero. My nitrate have never spiked they are still between 5 and 10. saw them above 10 one time but could have been a failed test. I have a tetra mast test kit. For Ammonia, Nitrite and PH as well as GH and KH. I have an API test kit for Nitrates. I did run a base line on my tap water from a blog I found and can't remember the ULR anymore. Straight from the tap. With API water Conditioner Ammonia 0 Nitrate 0 Nitrate 0 Ph 7.5 GH 12 KH 4 Day 2 Ammonia 0 Nitrate 0 Nitrate 0 Ph 7.5 GH 12 KH 4 Day 3 Ammonia 0 Nitrate 0 – (A slightly darker shade, nit up to .025) Nitrate 0 Ph 7.5 GH 12 KH 4 I'm concerned about the Nitrate never getting above 10. They are the color between 5 and 10. I'll always read that they would be 100 or something like that. Background on the tank. I set it up fresh, bought the tank new and picked up a bio wheel Dual filer off Crags List for $5 and had to replace the bio Wheels. Added a 2nd Bio Wheel Single filter new and also did not add the carbon I have read both ways and decided not to add it as of yet. The gravel is new and I spend some time washing it to remove all the bust and what not from it. The plants are fake. The heater is set to 76 and runs between 76 and 77 depending on the time of day. I'm going to keep live breeders as well as some Cory cats. Questions. Everything I have read tells me when nitrite and ammonia are at O and you add the ammonia to the tank to spike it and it's gone within 24 hours the tank is cycled I have done this for the last 2 days and both ammonia and nitrite come back as zero. I even took a water sample to one of my LFS and had them test the water as well and they reading also came back at 0 and the nitrate was at 5. So do I do the 70% water change or not worry about it since my nitrates are low? I was to the understanding the reason behind this was to remove the nitrates. Anyhow this is pretty long and I'm sure I'll end up with more questions along that way. Jack.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 43067	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 9/2/2009
Subject: Slow Russian customs officials kill 18 ton exotic tropical fish carg

http://www.gadling.com/2009/09/02/slow-russian-customs-officials-kill-18 -ton-exotic-tropical-fish-c/ http://tinyurl.com/ljht5x \\Steve//

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 43068	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 9/2/2009
Subject: Re: Fishless Cycle.

The "Baseline Testing" was probably from my blog (URL in my sig). Not very many sites even tell folks about finding their tap water baseline. That's why I wrote that article quite a while back (probably 2004) in another forum and then re-wrote it on my blog when I started my blog in 2007. It's one of the most important things to know when starting out so you know what kind of fish will do best in your tap water so you don't have to think about using all the other chemical fixes that are thrown at people for a quick fix. It also lets you know if you do need some kind of supplement to raise your KH level. It looks like your water stays pretty stable out of the tap through the 48 hour baseline so that's good. And your water parameters give you a broad spectrum of fish you can keep although your water is a little on the hard side (GH = General Hardness) but most fish adapt OK to that parameter, besides it usually goes down in an established tank as all of the ecology starts to utilize many of the trace elements that make up the GH level. How much ammonia did you add to start with? 30ml is WAY too much to be adding to your tank at one time. This is likely causing your nitrite eating bacteria some problems. For a 55G, you should be adding only 10ml per day... maybe twice a day, every 12 hours, once the cycle is fully established, to keep the ammonia eating bacteria at full capacity until you are ready for your fish. Do me a favor. Test your tank. Make sure you shake all bottles more than the directions say and double check your test procedures to make sure your numbers are as accurate as possible. Note all test results. Add 10ml of ammonia. Test immediately for ammonia and log results. 12 hours later, test again and log results. If ammonia is down to zero, add 10ml more of ammonia. 12 hours later (24 hours from initial test), test again and log results. Give me those numbers. Continue doing this daily regimen until we have your cycling figured out. Another group member (can't recall their name right now) is having similar issues with their fishless cycle. NO.. something is still not right with your fishless cycle. The nitrates HAVE to climb as the end product of the nitrogen cycle. Since yours are not climbing, something isn't right. Tell us more about your filtration? Exactly what kind of filter media do you have in your filters? You mentioned not having the carbon, which is good, but what other types of filter media do you have in them? Have you done any PWC's (partial water changes) during the fishless cycling process? If you haven't done any yet, GOOD! You are not supposed to do them unless you have a low KH level, which you do not have unless it's crashing in the fishless cycling tank. What have your KH levels been during the fishless cycle? I'll wait for your reply before coming up with even more questions. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of fishdudeut Sent: Wednesday, September 02, 2009 5:57 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Fishless Cycle. Fishless Cycle. Ok I have been in the process of doing a fishless cycle. I add the ammonia and it goes off the chart above the highest level of the test card (SUPER DARK GREEN). I let it set for a while and after about 6 or 7 days I saw it start to drop. I can add 30 ML of Ammonia to my 55 gallon tank and the next day (24 hours or so) it will be at 0. I started testing for nitrite and it made it about to 2 or 3 and now after about a week it's down to zero. My nitrate have never spiked they are still between 5 and 10. saw them above 10 one time but could have been a failed test. I have a tetra mast test kit. For Ammonia, Nitrite and PH as well as GH and KH. I have an API test kit for Nitrates. I did run a base line on my tap water from a blog I found and can't remember the ULR anymore. Straight from the tap. With API water Conditioner Ammonia 0 Nitrate 0 Nitrate 0 Ph 7.5 GH 12 KH 4 Day 2 Ammonia 0 Nitrate 0 Nitrate 0 Ph 7.5 GH 12 KH 4 Day 3 Ammonia 0 Nitrate 0 - (A slightly darker shade, nit up to .025) Nitrate 0 Ph 7.5 GH 12 KH 4 I'm concerned about the Nitrate never getting above 10. They are the color between 5 and 10. I'll always read that they would be 100 or something like that. Background on the tank. I set it up fresh, bought the tank new and picked up a bio wheel Dual filer off Crags List for $5 and had to replace the bio Wheels. Added a 2nd Bio Wheel Single filter new and also did not add the carbon I have read both ways and decided not to add it as of yet. The gravel is new and I spend some time washing it to remove all the bust and what not from it. The plants are fake. The heater is set to 76 and runs between 76 and 77 depending on the time of day. I'm going to keep live breeders as well as some Cory cats. Questions. Everything I have read tells me when nitrite and ammonia are at O and you add the ammonia to the tank to spike it and it's gone within 24 hours the tank is cycled I have done this for the last 2 days and both ammonia and nitrite come back as zero. I even took a water sample to one of my LFS and had them test the water as well and they reading also came back at 0 and the nitrate was at 5. So do I do the 70% water change or not worry about it since my nitrates are low? I was to the understanding the reason behind this was to remove the nitrates. Anyhow this is pretty long and I'm sure I'll end up with more questions along that way. Jack.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 43069	From: fishdudeut	Date: 9/2/2009
Subject: Re: Fishless Cycle.

I started out added 30 ML of ammonia and after seeing the VERY high results I cut it down to 20 and then down to 15. Been doing 15 every since. I have been checking twice a day and I get zero ammonia and zero nitrite after about 12 hours. I can't do a set of test until tomorrow. I added 15 today at 3:30 and will check results again tomorrow and see what they are at. You said added to much would cause some bacteria issue. So over doing can be a bad thing? I would think if it was eating all the ammonia and the nitrite were at zero I thought that would be good, bit that's why I'm here to figure out what's happening wrong. They only media that's in the filets are the bio wheels. I have the Marineland filets and they have the pre filets with the carbon in them and the bio wheels so nothing is there but the bio wheels. The other think I have done to the water is topped off the tank. NO WATER changes. As far as the KH during the cycle I have not tested for that. I will run the tests tomorrow and report back. I'll post in the afternoon when I get home and give a full update on the levels as of tomorrow and I'll test for everything. Jack --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@...> wrote: > > The "Baseline Testing" was probably from my blog (URL in my sig). Not very > many sites even tell folks about finding their tap water baseline. That's > why I wrote that article quite a while back (probably 2004) in another forum > and then re-wrote it on my blog when I started my blog in 2007. It's one of > the most important things to know when starting out so you know what kind of > fish will do best in your tap water so you don't have to think about using > all the other chemical fixes that are thrown at people for a quick fix. It > also lets you know if you do need some kind of supplement to raise your KH > level. It looks like your water stays pretty stable out of the tap through > the 48 hour baseline so that's good. And your water parameters give you a > broad spectrum of fish you can keep although your water is a little on the > hard side (GH = General Hardness) but most fish adapt OK to that parameter, > besides it usually goes down in an established tank as all of the ecology > starts to utilize many of the trace elements that make up the GH level. > > How much ammonia did you add to start with? 30ml is WAY too much to be > adding to your tank at one time. This is likely causing your nitrite eating > bacteria some problems. For a 55G, you should be adding only 10ml per > day... maybe twice a day, every 12 hours, once the cycle is fully > established, to keep the ammonia eating bacteria at full capacity until you > are ready for your fish. > > Do me a favor. Test your tank. Make sure you shake all bottles more than > the directions say and double check your test procedures to make sure your > numbers are as accurate as possible. Note all test results. Add 10ml of > ammonia. Test immediately for ammonia and log results. 12 hours later, > test again and log results. If ammonia is down to zero, add 10ml more of > ammonia. 12 hours later (24 hours from initial test), test again and log > results. Give me those numbers. Continue doing this daily regimen until we > have your cycling figured out. > > Another group member (can't recall their name right now) is having similar > issues with their fishless cycle. > > NO.. something is still not right with your fishless cycle. The nitrates > HAVE to climb as the end product of the nitrogen cycle. Since yours are not > climbing, something isn't right. > > Tell us more about your filtration? Exactly what kind of filter media do > you have in your filters? You mentioned not having the carbon, which is > good, but what other types of filter media do you have in them? > > Have you done any PWC's (partial water changes) during the fishless cycling > process? If you haven't done any yet, GOOD! You are not supposed to do > them unless you have a low KH level, which you do not have unless it's > crashing in the fishless cycling tank. What have your KH levels been during > the fishless cycle? > > I'll wait for your reply before coming up with even more questions. > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right > side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) > > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On > Behalf Of fishdudeut > Sent: Wednesday, September 02, 2009 5:57 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Subject: [AquaticLife] Fishless Cycle. > > Fishless Cycle. > > Ok I have been in the process of doing a fishless cycle. I add the ammonia > and it goes off the chart above the highest level of the test card (SUPER > DARK GREEN). I let it set for a while and after about 6 or 7 days I saw it > start to drop. I can add 30 ML of Ammonia to my 55 gallon tank and the next > day (24 hours or so) it will be at 0. I started testing for nitrite and it > made it about to 2 or 3 and now after about a week it's down to zero. My > nitrate have never spiked they are still between 5 and 10. saw them above 10 > one time but could have been a failed test. > > I have a tetra mast test kit. For Ammonia, Nitrite and PH as well as GH and > KH. I have an API test kit for Nitrates. > > I did run a base line on my tap water from a blog I found and can't remember > the ULR anymore. > > Straight from the tap. With API water Conditioner Ammonia 0 Nitrate 0 > Nitrate 0 Ph 7.5 GH 12 KH 4 > > Day 2 > Ammonia 0 > Nitrate 0 > Nitrate 0 > Ph 7.5 > GH 12 > KH 4 > > Day 3 > Ammonia 0 > Nitrate 0 - (A slightly darker shade, nit up to .025) Nitrate 0 Ph 7.5 GH 12 > KH 4 > > I'm concerned about the Nitrate never getting above 10. They are the color > between 5 and 10. I'll always read that they would be 100 or something like > that. > > > Background on the tank. > > I set it up fresh, bought the tank new and picked up a bio wheel Dual filer > off Crags List for $5 and had to replace the bio Wheels. Added a 2nd Bio > Wheel Single filter new and also did not add the carbon I have read both > ways and decided not to add it as of yet. The gravel is new and I spend some > time washing it to remove all the bust and what not from it. The plants are > fake. The heater is set to 76 and runs between 76 and 77 depending on the > time of day. > > I'm going to keep live breeders as well as some Cory cats. > > Questions. > > Everything I have read tells me when nitrite and ammonia are at O and you > add the ammonia to the tank to spike it and it's gone within 24 hours the > tank is cycled I have done this for the last 2 days and both ammonia and > nitrite come back as zero. I even took a water sample to one of my LFS and > had them test the water as well and they reading also came back at 0 and the > nitrate was at 5. > > So do I do the 70% water change or not worry about it since my nitrates are > low? I was to the understanding the reason behind this was to remove the > nitrates. Anyhow this is pretty long and I'm sure I'll end up with more > questions along that way. > > Jack. >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 43070	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 9/2/2009
Subject: Re: Fishless Cycle.

Well, 30ml of ammonia in a 55G tank would have raised the ammonia to 14ppm so I'm surprised if you would ever get the ammonia eating bacteria growing at that level... at least from all of the fishless cycling threads that I've read over the years, if the ammonia even gets up to the 6-7ppm level, it can cause problems. Even at 15ml in a 55G, that raises the ammonia level to 7ppm. There's a reason why the level we strive for is 4-5ppm IN EVERY FISHLESS CYCLING ARTICLE... because it has been found in countless fishless cycling experiments to be the optimum level. Too much lower and it takes a LOT longer or the tank ends up being cycled for a much smaller bioload. Too much higher and other problems develop... as you are seeing. You should cut it back to 10ml at a time and then you can dose it every 12 hours with this level. This is all you need to do since a fully stocked and properly maintained aquarium only produces around 5ppm of ammonia each day, so building a larger nitrifying bacteria colony is simply not needed. They are just going to die off when you stock your tank, since it will not be producing enough ammonia to feed all of the extra bacteria colonies that you grew. Yes, overdoing it can be a bad thing. For example, when cooking, if it takes the 15 minutes at 400F to cook that small frozen pizza, then it must be better to raise the temp to 1,200F... right? NOPE.. you end up with a SEVERELY overcooked pizza on the outside and maybe still mushy on the inside. Maybe that's not a good analogy but looking at a chemistry analogy... if drinking H2O is good.. then drinking H2O2 must be better since it has an extra Oxygen molecule.... right? NOPE AGAIN. H2O2 is Hydrogen Peroxide and while you might end up with nice white teeth, the rest of you won't fair so well. ;-) Now, back to your cycling. I need more data. When you are checking twice a day, what are the numbers for temperature, pH, ammonia, nitrite, nitrate, GH, KH? I know you said you will not be able to test until tomorrow, which is fine, but let us know ALL of the information that is available. It's good that you are running JUST the Bio-Wheels. Are they spinning OK? They don't have to buzz like a top, just as long as they are turning on a regular basis. I have one that spins like crazy and another that just spins about one rotation a second or two but in either case, they work fine. Of course, I have a lot of other filter media as well. As far as your Marineland filter cartridges with the built-in carbon, you will probably want to modify them to add more filter floss and trash the carbon. See my blog article, "Filter Profile - Marineland Bio-Wheel" to see how I have cut open the black plastic screen that holds the carbon and then added more filter floss to add to the mechanical filtration. In a fully stocked tank, that thin blue filter floss pad that is on the Marineland filters will clog up quickly causing the water to overflow the filter cartridge and while that will still keep the tank cycled, due to the Bio-Wheels, you will not be getting proper mechanical filtration of any fish poop, detritus sucked up by the filter. While at my blog, also read my article on proper "Filter Cleaning & Maintenance..." so you do not repeat the mistakes made by so many newbies when they follow the directions from the filter companies... who are just trying to sell filters, not necessarily do the best thing for your fish. Of course, that is why Dr. Tim Hovanec invented the Bio-Wheel, so that they could tell people to trash the filter cartridges every few weeks without causing harm to the fish... but it's simply not needed unless you like to transfer money from your wallet to someone else's wallet... and if you like doing that, I'll give you my PayPal addy and you can transfer some to me too! ;-) Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of fishdudeut Sent: Wednesday, September 02, 2009 10:31 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Fishless Cycle. I started out added 30 ML of ammonia and after seeing the VERY high results I cut it down to 20 and then down to 15. Been doing 15 every since. I have been checking twice a day and I get zero ammonia and zero nitrite after about 12 hours. I can't do a set of test until tomorrow. I added 15 today at 3:30 and will check results again tomorrow and see what they are at. You said added to much would cause some bacteria issue. So over doing can be a bad thing? I would think if it was eating all the ammonia and the nitrite were at zero I thought that would be good, bit that's why I'm here to figure out what's happening wrong. They only media that's in the filets are the bio wheels. I have the Marineland filets and they have the pre filets with the carbon in them and the bio wheels so nothing is there but the bio wheels. The other think I have done to the water is topped off the tank. NO WATER changes. As far as the KH during the cycle I have not tested for that. I will run the tests tomorrow and report back. I'll post in the afternoon when I get home and give a full update on the levels as of tomorrow and I'll test for everything. Jack --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@...> wrote: > > The "Baseline Testing" was probably from my blog (URL in my sig). Not > very many sites even tell folks about finding their tap water > baseline. That's why I wrote that article quite a while back > (probably 2004) in another forum and then re-wrote it on my blog when > I started my blog in 2007. It's one of the most important things to > know when starting out so you know what kind of fish will do best in > your tap water so you don't have to think about using all the other > chemical fixes that are thrown at people for a quick fix. It also > lets you know if you do need some kind of supplement to raise your KH > level. It looks like your water stays pretty stable out of the tap > through the 48 hour baseline so that's good. And your water > parameters give you a broad spectrum of fish you can keep although > your water is a little on the hard side (GH = General Hardness) but > most fish adapt OK to that parameter, besides it usually goes down in an established tank as all of the ecology starts to utilize many of the trace elements that make up the GH level. > > How much ammonia did you add to start with? 30ml is WAY too much to > be adding to your tank at one time. This is likely causing your > nitrite eating bacteria some problems. For a 55G, you should be > adding only 10ml per day... maybe twice a day, every 12 hours, once > the cycle is fully established, to keep the ammonia eating bacteria at > full capacity until you are ready for your fish. > > Do me a favor. Test your tank. Make sure you shake all bottles more > than the directions say and double check your test procedures to make > sure your numbers are as accurate as possible. Note all test results. > Add 10ml of ammonia. Test immediately for ammonia and log results. > 12 hours later, test again and log results. If ammonia is down to > zero, add 10ml more of ammonia. 12 hours later (24 hours from initial > test), test again and log results. Give me those numbers. Continue > doing this daily regimen until we have your cycling figured out. > > Another group member (can't recall their name right now) is having > similar issues with their fishless cycle. > > NO.. something is still not right with your fishless cycle. The > nitrates HAVE to climb as the end product of the nitrogen cycle. > Since yours are not climbing, something isn't right. > > Tell us more about your filtration? Exactly what kind of filter media > do you have in your filters? You mentioned not having the carbon, > which is good, but what other types of filter media do you have in them? > > Have you done any PWC's (partial water changes) during the fishless > cycling process? If you haven't done any yet, GOOD! You are not > supposed to do them unless you have a low KH level, which you do not > have unless it's crashing in the fishless cycling tank. What have > your KH levels been during the fishless cycle? > > I'll wait for your reply before coming up with even more questions. > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles > referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically > under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) > > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] > On Behalf Of fishdudeut > Sent: Wednesday, September 02, 2009 5:57 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Subject: [AquaticLife] Fishless Cycle. > > Fishless Cycle. > > Ok I have been in the process of doing a fishless cycle. I add the > ammonia and it goes off the chart above the highest level of the test > card (SUPER DARK GREEN). I let it set for a while and after about 6 > or 7 days I saw it start to drop. I can add 30 ML of Ammonia to my 55 > gallon tank and the next day (24 hours or so) it will be at 0. I > started testing for nitrite and it made it about to 2 or 3 and now > after about a week it's down to zero. My nitrate have never spiked > they are still between 5 and 10. saw them above 10 one time but could have been a failed test. > > I have a tetra mast test kit. For Ammonia, Nitrite and PH as well as > GH and KH. I have an API test kit for Nitrates. > > I did run a base line on my tap water from a blog I found and can't > remember the ULR anymore. > > Straight from the tap. With API water Conditioner Ammonia 0 Nitrate 0 > Nitrate 0 Ph 7.5 GH 12 KH 4 > > Day 2 > Ammonia 0 > Nitrate 0 > Nitrate 0 > Ph 7.5 > GH 12 > KH 4 > > Day 3 > Ammonia 0 > Nitrate 0 - (A slightly darker shade, nit up to .025) Nitrate 0 Ph 7.5 > GH 12 KH 4 > > I'm concerned about the Nitrate never getting above 10. They are the > color between 5 and 10. I'll always read that they would be 100 or > something like that. > > > Background on the tank. > > I set it up fresh, bought the tank new and picked up a bio wheel Dual > filer off Crags List for $5 and had to replace the bio Wheels. Added a > 2nd Bio Wheel Single filter new and also did not add the carbon I > have read both ways and decided not to add it as of yet. The gravel is > new and I spend some time washing it to remove all the bust and what > not from it. The plants are fake. The heater is set to 76 and runs > between 76 and 77 depending on the time of day. > > I'm going to keep live breeders as well as some Cory cats. > > Questions. > > Everything I have read tells me when nitrite and ammonia are at O and > you add the ammonia to the tank to spike it and it's gone within 24 > hours the tank is cycled I have done this for the last 2 days and both > ammonia and nitrite come back as zero. I even took a water sample to > one of my LFS and had them test the water as well and they reading > also came back at 0 and the nitrate was at 5. > > So do I do the 70% water change or not worry about it since my > nitrates are low? I was to the understanding the reason behind this > was to remove the nitrates. Anyhow this is pretty long and I'm sure > I'll end up with more questions along that way. > > Jack.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 43071	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 9/2/2009
Subject: Re: Fishless Cycle.

Lenny the test results both said nitrate, there was no test that said nitrIte, perhaps we should clarify this bit ;) Amber Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > > > Well, 30ml of ammonia in a 55G tank would have raised the ammonia to 14ppm > so I'm surprised if you would ever get the ammonia eating bacteria growing > at that level... at least from all of the fishless cycling threads > that I've > read over the years, if the ammonia even gets up to the 6-7ppm level, > it can > cause problems. Even at 15ml in a 55G, that raises the ammonia level to > 7ppm. There's a reason why the level we strive for is 4-5ppm IN EVERY > FISHLESS CYCLING ARTICLE... because it has been found in countless > fishless > cycling experiments to be the optimum level. Too much lower and it takes a > LOT longer or the tank ends up being cycled for a much smaller > bioload. Too > much higher and other problems develop... as you are seeing. > > You should cut it back to 10ml at a time and then you can dose it every 12 > hours with this level. This is all you need to do since a fully > stocked and > properly maintained aquarium only produces around 5ppm of ammonia each > day, > so building a larger nitrifying bacteria colony is simply not needed. They > are just going to die off when you stock your tank, since it will not be > producing enough ammonia to feed all of the extra bacteria colonies > that you > grew. > > Yes, overdoing it can be a bad thing. > > For example, when cooking, if it takes the 15 minutes at 400F to cook that > small frozen pizza, then it must be better to raise the temp to 1,200F... > right? NOPE.. you end up with a SEVERELY overcooked pizza on the outside > and maybe still mushy on the inside. Maybe that's not a good analogy but > looking at a chemistry analogy... if drinking H2O is good.. then drinking > H2O2 must be better since it has an extra Oxygen molecule.... right? NOPE > AGAIN. H2O2 is Hydrogen Peroxide and while you might end up with nice > white > teeth, the rest of you won't fair so well. ;-) > > Now, back to your cycling. I need more data. When you are checking twice a > day, what are the numbers for temperature, pH, ammonia, nitrite, nitrate, > GH, KH? I know you said you will not be able to test until tomorrow, which > is fine, but let us know ALL of the information that is available. > > It's good that you are running JUST the Bio-Wheels. Are they spinning OK? > They don't have to buzz like a top, just as long as they are turning on a > regular basis. I have one that spins like crazy and another that just > spins > about one rotation a second or two but in either case, they work fine. Of > course, I have a lot of other filter media as well. As far as your > Marineland filter cartridges with the built-in carbon, you will probably > want to modify them to add more filter floss and trash the carbon. See my > blog article, "Filter Profile - Marineland Bio-Wheel" to see how I > have cut > open the black plastic screen that holds the carbon and then added more > filter floss to add to the mechanical filtration. In a fully stocked tank, > that thin blue filter floss pad that is on the Marineland filters will > clog > up quickly causing the water to overflow the filter cartridge and > while that > will still keep the tank cycled, due to the Bio-Wheels, you will not be > getting proper mechanical filtration of any fish poop, detritus sucked > up by > the filter. > > While at my blog, also read my article on proper "Filter Cleaning & > Maintenance..." so you do not repeat the mistakes made by so many newbies > when they follow the directions from the filter companies... who are just > trying to sell filters, not necessarily do the best thing for your > fish. Of > course, that is why Dr. Tim Hovanec invented the Bio-Wheel, so that they > could tell people to trash the filter cartridges every few weeks without > causing harm to the fish... but it's simply not needed unless you like to > transfer money from your wallet to someone else's wallet... and if you > like > doing that, I'll give you my PayPal addy and you can transfer some to me > too! ;-) > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right > side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On > Behalf Of fishdudeut > Sent: Wednesday, September 02, 2009 10:31 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Fishless Cycle. > > I started out added 30 ML of ammonia and after seeing the VERY high > results > I cut it down to 20 and then down to 15. Been doing 15 every since. > > I have been checking twice a day and I get zero ammonia and zero nitrite > after about 12 hours. I can't do a set of test until tomorrow. I added 15 > today at 3:30 and will check results again tomorrow and see what they are > at. You said added to much would cause some bacteria issue. > > So over doing can be a bad thing? I would think if it was eating all the > ammonia and the nitrite were at zero I thought that would be good, bit > that's why I'm here to figure out what's happening wrong. > > They only media that's in the filets are the bio wheels. I have the > Marineland filets and they have the pre filets with the carbon in them and > the bio wheels so nothing is there but the bio wheels. > > The other think I have done to the water is topped off the tank. NO WATER > changes. As far as the KH during the cycle I have not tested for that. I > will run the tests tomorrow and report back. > > I'll post in the afternoon when I get home and give a full update on the > levels as of tomorrow and I'll test for everything. > > Jack > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>, "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" > <GoldLenny@...> > wrote: > > > > The "Baseline Testing" was probably from my blog (URL in my sig). Not > > very many sites even tell folks about finding their tap water > > baseline. That's why I wrote that article quite a while back > > (probably 2004) in another forum and then re-wrote it on my blog when > > I started my blog in 2007. It's one of the most important things to > > know when starting out so you know what kind of fish will do best in > > your tap water so you don't have to think about using all the other > > chemical fixes that are thrown at people for a quick fix. It also > > lets you know if you do need some kind of supplement to raise your KH > > level. It looks like your water stays pretty stable out of the tap > > through the 48 hour baseline so that's good. And your water > > parameters give you a broad spectrum of fish you can keep although > > your water is a little on the hard side (GH = General Hardness) but > > most fish adapt OK to that parameter, besides it usually goes down in an > established tank as all of the ecology starts to utilize many of the trace > elements that make up the GH level. > > > > How much ammonia did you add to start with? 30ml is WAY too much to > > be adding to your tank at one time. This is likely causing your > > nitrite eating bacteria some problems. For a 55G, you should be > > adding only 10ml per day... maybe twice a day, every 12 hours, once > > the cycle is fully established, to keep the ammonia eating bacteria at > > full capacity until you are ready for your fish. > > > > Do me a favor. Test your tank. Make sure you shake all bottles more > > than the directions say and double check your test procedures to make > > sure your numbers are as accurate as possible. Note all test results. > > Add 10ml of ammonia. Test immediately for ammonia and log results. > > 12 hours later, test again and log results. If ammonia is down to > > zero, add 10ml more of ammonia. 12 hours later (24 hours from initial > > test), test again and log results. Give me those numbers. Continue > > doing this daily regimen until we have your cycling figured out. > > > > Another group member (can't recall their name right now) is having > > similar issues with their fishless cycle. > > > > NO.. something is still not right with your fishless cycle. The > > nitrates HAVE to climb as the end product of the nitrogen cycle. > > Since yours are not climbing, something isn't right. > > > > Tell us more about your filtration? Exactly what kind of filter media > > do you have in your filters? You mentioned not having the carbon, > > which is good, but what other types of filter media do you have in them? > > > > Have you done any PWC's (partial water changes) during the fishless > > cycling process? If you haven't done any yet, GOOD! You are not > > supposed to do them unless you have a low KH level, which you do not > > have unless it's crashing in the fishless cycling tank. What have > > your KH levels been during the fishless cycle? > > > > I'll wait for your reply before coming up with even more questions. > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> (Links to any articles > > referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically > > under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) > > > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] > > On Behalf Of fishdudeut > > Sent: Wednesday, September 02, 2009 5:57 PM > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > Subject: [AquaticLife] Fishless Cycle. > > > > Fishless Cycle. > > > > Ok I have been in the process of doing a fishless cycle. I add the > > ammonia and it goes off the chart above the highest level of the test > > card (SUPER DARK GREEN). I let it set for a while and after about 6 > > or 7 days I saw it start to drop. I can add 30 ML of Ammonia to my 55 > > gallon tank and the next day (24 hours or so) it will be at 0. I > > started testing for nitrite and it made it about to 2 or 3 and now > > after about a week it's down to zero. My nitrate have never spiked > > they are still between 5 and 10. saw them above 10 one time but > could have > been a failed test. > > > > I have a tetra mast test kit. For Ammonia, Nitrite and PH as well as > > GH and KH. I have an API test kit for Nitrates. > > > > I did run a base line on my tap water from a blog I found and can't > > remember the ULR anymore. > > > > Straight from the tap. With API water Conditioner Ammonia 0 Nitrate 0 > > Nitrate 0 Ph 7.5 GH 12 KH 4 > > > > Day 2 > > Ammonia 0 > > Nitrate 0 > > Nitrate 0 > > Ph 7.5 > > GH 12 > > KH 4 > > > > Day 3 > > Ammonia 0 > > Nitrate 0 - (A slightly darker shade, nit up to .025) Nitrate 0 Ph 7.5 > > GH 12 KH 4 > > > > I'm concerned about the Nitrate never getting above 10. They are the > > color between 5 and 10. I'll always read that they would be 100 or > > something like that. > > > > > > Background on the tank. > > > > I set it up fresh, bought the tank new and picked up a bio wheel Dual > > filer off Crags List for $5 and had to replace the bio Wheels. Added a > > 2nd Bio Wheel Single filter new and also did not add the carbon I > > have read both ways and decided not to add it as of yet. The gravel is > > new and I spend some time washing it to remove all the bust and what > > not from it. The plants are fake. The heater is set to 76 and runs > > between 76 and 77 depending on the time of day. > > > > I'm going to keep live breeders as well as some Cory cats. > > > > Questions. > > > > Everything I have read tells me when nitrite and ammonia are at O and > > you add the ammonia to the tank to spike it and it's gone within 24 > > hours the tank is cycled I have done this for the last 2 days and both > > ammonia and nitrite come back as zero. I even took a water sample to > > one of my LFS and had them test the water as well and they reading > > also came back at 0 and the nitrate was at 5. > > > > So do I do the 70% water change or not worry about it since my > > nitrates are low? I was to the understanding the reason behind this > > was to remove the nitrates. Anyhow this is pretty long and I'm sure > > I'll end up with more questions along that way. > > > > Jack. > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 43072	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 9/2/2009
Subject: Re: Fishless Cycle.

Hopefully, it's just a typo. I didn't notice the repeat of "nitrate" in the Baseline Testing either. Just like with the recent confusion with tsp (teaspoon) and Tbs (Tablespoon), it's probably a good idea to use the full spelling of them and also to use the chemical symbols for nitrite (NO2-) and nitrate (NO3-) when using them. At least the 2 and 3 respectively shows their position in the nitrogen cycle. ;-) Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Amber Berglund Sent: Thursday, September 03, 2009 12:46 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: Fishless Cycle. Lenny the test results both said nitrate, there was no test that said nitrIte, perhaps we should clarify this bit ;) Amber Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > > > Well, 30ml of ammonia in a 55G tank would have raised the ammonia to > 14ppm so I'm surprised if you would ever get the ammonia eating > bacteria growing at that level... at least from all of the fishless > cycling threads that I've read over the years, if the ammonia even > gets up to the 6-7ppm level, it can cause problems. Even at 15ml in a > 55G, that raises the ammonia level to 7ppm. There's a reason why the > level we strive for is 4-5ppm IN EVERY FISHLESS CYCLING ARTICLE... > because it has been found in countless fishless cycling experiments to > be the optimum level. Too much lower and it takes a LOT longer or the > tank ends up being cycled for a much smaller bioload. Too much higher > and other problems develop... as you are seeing. > > You should cut it back to 10ml at a time and then you can dose it > every 12 hours with this level. This is all you need to do since a > fully stocked and properly maintained aquarium only produces around > 5ppm of ammonia each day, so building a larger nitrifying bacteria > colony is simply not needed. They are just going to die off when you > stock your tank, since it will not be producing enough ammonia to feed > all of the extra bacteria colonies that you grew. > > Yes, overdoing it can be a bad thing. > > For example, when cooking, if it takes the 15 minutes at 400F to cook > that small frozen pizza, then it must be better to raise the temp to 1,200F... > right? NOPE.. you end up with a SEVERELY overcooked pizza on the > outside and maybe still mushy on the inside. Maybe that's not a good > analogy but looking at a chemistry analogy... if drinking H2O is > good.. then drinking > H2O2 must be better since it has an extra Oxygen molecule.... right? > NOPE AGAIN. H2O2 is Hydrogen Peroxide and while you might end up with > nice white teeth, the rest of you won't fair so well. ;-) > > Now, back to your cycling. I need more data. When you are checking > twice a day, what are the numbers for temperature, pH, ammonia, > nitrite, nitrate, GH, KH? I know you said you will not be able to test > until tomorrow, which is fine, but let us know ALL of the information that is available. > > It's good that you are running JUST the Bio-Wheels. Are they spinning OK? > They don't have to buzz like a top, just as long as they are turning > on a regular basis. I have one that spins like crazy and another that > just spins about one rotation a second or two but in either case, they > work fine. Of course, I have a lot of other filter media as well. As > far as your Marineland filter cartridges with the built-in carbon, you > will probably want to modify them to add more filter floss and trash > the carbon. See my blog article, "Filter Profile - Marineland > Bio-Wheel" to see how I have cut open the black plastic screen that > holds the carbon and then added more filter floss to add to the > mechanical filtration. In a fully stocked tank, that thin blue filter > floss pad that is on the Marineland filters will clog up quickly > causing the water to overflow the filter cartridge and while that will > still keep the tank cycled, due to the Bio-Wheels, you will not be > getting proper mechanical filtration of any fish poop, detritus sucked > up by the filter. > > While at my blog, also read my article on proper "Filter Cleaning & > Maintenance..." so you do not repeat the mistakes made by so many > newbies when they follow the directions from the filter companies... > who are just trying to sell filters, not necessarily do the best thing > for your fish. Of course, that is why Dr. Tim Hovanec invented the > Bio-Wheel, so that they could tell people to trash the filter > cartridges every few weeks without causing harm to the fish... but > it's simply not needed unless you like to transfer money from your > wallet to someone else's wallet... and if you like doing that, I'll > give you my PayPal addy and you can transfer some to me too! ;-) > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> (Links to any articles referenced in > above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels > and also under Archives by Year, Month) > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On Behalf Of fishdudeut > Sent: Wednesday, September 02, 2009 10:31 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Fishless Cycle. > > I started out added 30 ML of ammonia and after seeing the VERY high > results I cut it down to 20 and then down to 15. Been doing 15 every > since. > > I have been checking twice a day and I get zero ammonia and zero > nitrite after about 12 hours. I can't do a set of test until tomorrow. > I added 15 today at 3:30 and will check results again tomorrow and see > what they are at. You said added to much would cause some bacteria issue. > > So over doing can be a bad thing? I would think if it was eating all > the ammonia and the nitrite were at zero I thought that would be good, > bit that's why I'm here to figure out what's happening wrong. > > They only media that's in the filets are the bio wheels. I have the > Marineland filets and they have the pre filets with the carbon in them > and the bio wheels so nothing is there but the bio wheels. > > The other think I have done to the water is topped off the tank. NO > WATER changes. As far as the KH during the cycle I have not tested for > that. I will run the tests tomorrow and report back. > > I'll post in the afternoon when I get home and give a full update on > the levels as of tomorrow and I'll test for everything. > > Jack > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>, "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" > <GoldLenny@...> > wrote: > > > > The "Baseline Testing" was probably from my blog (URL in my sig). > > Not very many sites even tell folks about finding their tap water > > baseline. That's why I wrote that article quite a while back > > (probably 2004) in another forum and then re-wrote it on my blog > > when I started my blog in 2007. It's one of the most important > > things to know when starting out so you know what kind of fish will > > do best in your tap water so you don't have to think about using all > > the other chemical fixes that are thrown at people for a quick fix. > > It also lets you know if you do need some kind of supplement to > > raise your KH level. It looks like your water stays pretty stable > > out of the tap through the 48 hour baseline so that's good. And your > > water parameters give you a broad spectrum of fish you can keep > > although your water is a little on the hard side (GH = General > > Hardness) but most fish adapt OK to that parameter, besides it > > usually goes down in an > established tank as all of the ecology starts to utilize many of the > trace elements that make up the GH level. > > > > How much ammonia did you add to start with? 30ml is WAY too much to > > be adding to your tank at one time. This is likely causing your > > nitrite eating bacteria some problems. For a 55G, you should be > > adding only 10ml per day... maybe twice a day, every 12 hours, once > > the cycle is fully established, to keep the ammonia eating bacteria > > at full capacity until you are ready for your fish. > > > > Do me a favor. Test your tank. Make sure you shake all bottles more > > than the directions say and double check your test procedures to > > make sure your numbers are as accurate as possible. Note all test results. > > Add 10ml of ammonia. Test immediately for ammonia and log results. > > 12 hours later, test again and log results. If ammonia is down to > > zero, add 10ml more of ammonia. 12 hours later (24 hours from > > initial test), test again and log results. Give me those numbers. > > Continue doing this daily regimen until we have your cycling figured out. > > > > Another group member (can't recall their name right now) is having > > similar issues with their fishless cycle. > > > > NO.. something is still not right with your fishless cycle. The > > nitrates HAVE to climb as the end product of the nitrogen cycle. > > Since yours are not climbing, something isn't right. > > > > Tell us more about your filtration? Exactly what kind of filter > > media do you have in your filters? You mentioned not having the > > carbon, which is good, but what other types of filter media do you have in them? > > > > Have you done any PWC's (partial water changes) during the fishless > > cycling process? If you haven't done any yet, GOOD! You are not > > supposed to do them unless you have a low KH level, which you do not > > have unless it's crashing in the fishless cycling tank. What have > > your KH levels been during the fishless cycle? > > > > I'll wait for your reply before coming up with even more questions. > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> (Links to any articles > > referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, > > alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) > > > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] > > On Behalf Of fishdudeut > > Sent: Wednesday, September 02, 2009 5:57 PM > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > Subject: [AquaticLife] Fishless Cycle. > > > > Fishless Cycle. > > > > Ok I have been in the process of doing a fishless cycle. I add the > > ammonia and it goes off the chart above the highest level of the > > test card (SUPER DARK GREEN). I let it set for a while and after > > about 6 or 7 days I saw it start to drop. I can add 30 ML of Ammonia > > to my 55 gallon tank and the next day (24 hours or so) it will be at > > 0. I started testing for nitrite and it made it about to 2 or 3 and > > now after about a week it's down to zero. My nitrate have never > > spiked they are still between 5 and 10. saw them above 10 one time > > but > could have > been a failed test. > > > > I have a tetra mast test kit. For Ammonia, Nitrite and PH as well as > > GH and KH. I have an API test kit for Nitrates. > > > > I did run a base line on my tap water from a blog I found and can't > > remember the ULR anymore. > > > > Straight from the tap. With API water Conditioner Ammonia 0 Nitrate > > 0 Nitrate 0 Ph 7.5 GH 12 KH 4 > > > > Day 2 > > Ammonia 0 > > Nitrate 0 > > Nitrate 0 > > Ph 7.5 > > GH 12 > > KH 4 > > > > Day 3 > > Ammonia 0 > > Nitrate 0 - (A slightly darker shade, nit up to .025) Nitrate 0 Ph > > 7.5 GH 12 KH 4 > > > > I'm concerned about the Nitrate never getting above 10. They are the > > color between 5 and 10. I'll always read that they would be 100 or > > something like that. > > > > > > Background on the tank. > > > > I set it up fresh, bought the tank new and picked up a bio wheel > > Dual filer off Crags List for $5 and had to replace the bio Wheels. > > Added a 2nd Bio Wheel Single filter new and also did not add the > > carbon I have read both ways and decided not to add it as of yet. > > The gravel is new and I spend some time washing it to remove all the > > bust and what not from it. The plants are fake. The heater is set to > > 76 and runs between 76 and 77 depending on the time of day. > > > > I'm going to keep live breeders as well as some Cory cats. > > > > Questions. > > > > Everything I have read tells me when nitrite and ammonia are at O > > and you add the ammonia to the tank to spike it and it's gone within > > 24 hours the tank is cycled I have done this for the last 2 days and > > both ammonia and nitrite come back as zero. I even took a water > > sample to one of my LFS and had them test the water as well and they > > reading also came back at 0 and the nitrate was at 5. > > > > So do I do the 70% water change or not worry about it since my > > nitrates are low? I was to the understanding the reason behind this > > was to remove the nitrates. Anyhow this is pretty long and I'm sure > > I'll end up with more questions along that way. > > > > Jack.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 43073	From: fishdudeut	Date: 9/3/2009
Subject: Re: Fishless Cycle.

Here the reading. 8/08 - 3:45 Ammonia 0 - Nitrite 0 - Nitrate 0 - Ph 7.5 - GH 12 - KH 4 – Temp 76.6 Added 30 ML Ammonia 8/08 - 9:00 PM - Ammonia Off the chart 8/09 - 8/28 - Added 30 ML Ammonia 8/29 – 7:15 Ammonia 0 – Nitrite 3 – Nitrate 5 - PH 7.5 – GH 12 – KH 4 – temp 76.5 Added 15 ML Ammonia 8/29 – 8:00 Ammonia 0.5 – Nitrite 3 – Nitrate 5 - PH 7.5 – GH 12 – KH 4 – temp 76.4 Added 15 ML Ammonia 8/30 – 9:15 Ammonia 0 – Nitrite 1 – Nitrate 5/10 - PH 7.5 – GH 12 – KH 4 – temp 76.2 Added 15 ML ammonia 8/30 – 8:15 Ammonia .25 – Nitrite 1 – Nitrate 5 - PH DNT – GH DNT– KH DNT– temp 76.5 Added 5 Ml Ammonia 8/31 – 5:30 Ammonia 0 – Nitrite DNT – Nitrate DNT PH DNT – GH DNT – KH DNT – temp 76.1 Added 10 ML Ammonia 8/31 – 4:20 Ammonia 0 – Nitrite 0 – Nitrate 5/10 - PH 7.4 – GH 12 – KH 5 – temp 76..0 Added 10 ML Ammonia 9/1 – 5:30 Ammonia 0 – Nitrite .0 – Nitrate 5/10 - PH DNT – GH DNT– KH DNT– temp 76.4 Added 10 ML Ammonia 9/1 – 2:30 Ammonia 0 – Nitrite 0 – Nitrate 5 - PH DNT – GH DNT– KH DNT – temp 76.8 Added 10 ML Ammonia 9/2 – 5:25 Ammonia .25 – Nitrite DNY – Nitrate DNT- PH DNT – GH DNT – KH DNT – temp 76.6 Added 10 ML Ammonia 9/3 – 2:25 Ammonia 0 – Nitrite 0 – Nitrate 10 - PH 7.4 – GH 13 – KH 5 – temp 76.7 Today I did each test 3 times to make sure I got the proper readings. The nitrate test came out 40 for the first test and the next 2 came out 10. I'm thinking I was think ammonia and added 8 drops of one of the solutions instead of 10. Not sure. I looked at your blog on the filters and the way my filters are set up you cannot cut an "H" in them they are the emperor one is the 400 and the other is the 280. Looks like I can get the carbon out just not with the "H" cut. Anyhow thanks for the info and any ideas? Should I cut back to 5 ML of ammonia one time a day for a while or still do 10 one or two times a day? I've toyed with the idea of starting over, but that would be pretty stupid. --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@...> wrote: > > Well, 30ml of ammonia in a 55G tank would have raised the ammonia to 14ppm > so I'm surprised if you would ever get the ammonia eating bacteria growing > at that level... at least from all of the fishless cycling threads that I've > read over the years, if the ammonia even gets up to the 6-7ppm level, it can > cause problems. Even at 15ml in a 55G, that raises the ammonia level to > 7ppm. There's a reason why the level we strive for is 4-5ppm IN EVERY > FISHLESS CYCLING ARTICLE... because it has been found in countless fishless > cycling experiments to be the optimum level. Too much lower and it takes a > LOT longer or the tank ends up being cycled for a much smaller bioload. Too > much higher and other problems develop... as you are seeing. > > You should cut it back to 10ml at a time and then you can dose it every 12 > hours with this level. This is all you need to do since a fully stocked and > properly maintained aquarium only produces around 5ppm of ammonia each day, > so building a larger nitrifying bacteria colony is simply not needed. They > are just going to die off when you stock your tank, since it will not be > producing enough ammonia to feed all of the extra bacteria colonies that you > grew. > > Yes, overdoing it can be a bad thing. > > For example, when cooking, if it takes the 15 minutes at 400F to cook that > small frozen pizza, then it must be better to raise the temp to 1,200F... > right? NOPE.. you end up with a SEVERELY overcooked pizza on the outside > and maybe still mushy on the inside. Maybe that's not a good analogy but > looking at a chemistry analogy... if drinking H2O is good.. then drinking > H2O2 must be better since it has an extra Oxygen molecule.... right? NOPE > AGAIN. H2O2 is Hydrogen Peroxide and while you might end up with nice white > teeth, the rest of you won't fair so well. ;-) > > Now, back to your cycling. I need more data. When you are checking twice a > day, what are the numbers for temperature, pH, ammonia, nitrite, nitrate, > GH, KH? I know you said you will not be able to test until tomorrow, which > is fine, but let us know ALL of the information that is available. > > It's good that you are running JUST the Bio-Wheels. Are they spinning OK? > They don't have to buzz like a top, just as long as they are turning on a > regular basis. I have one that spins like crazy and another that just spins > about one rotation a second or two but in either case, they work fine. Of > course, I have a lot of other filter media as well. As far as your > Marineland filter cartridges with the built-in carbon, you will probably > want to modify them to add more filter floss and trash the carbon. See my > blog article, "Filter Profile - Marineland Bio-Wheel" to see how I have cut > open the black plastic screen that holds the carbon and then added more > filter floss to add to the mechanical filtration. In a fully stocked tank, > that thin blue filter floss pad that is on the Marineland filters will clog > up quickly causing the water to overflow the filter cartridge and while that > will still keep the tank cycled, due to the Bio-Wheels, you will not be > getting proper mechanical filtration of any fish poop, detritus sucked up by > the filter. > > While at my blog, also read my article on proper "Filter Cleaning & > Maintenance..." so you do not repeat the mistakes made by so many newbies > when they follow the directions from the filter companies... who are just > trying to sell filters, not necessarily do the best thing for your fish. Of > course, that is why Dr. Tim Hovanec invented the Bio-Wheel, so that they > could tell people to trash the filter cartridges every few weeks without > causing harm to the fish... but it's simply not needed unless you like to > transfer money from your wallet to someone else's wallet... and if you like > doing that, I'll give you my PayPal addy and you can transfer some to me > too! ;-) > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right > side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) > > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On > Behalf Of fishdudeut > Sent: Wednesday, September 02, 2009 10:31 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Fishless Cycle. > > I started out added 30 ML of ammonia and after seeing the VERY high results > I cut it down to 20 and then down to 15. Been doing 15 every since. > > I have been checking twice a day and I get zero ammonia and zero nitrite > after about 12 hours. I can't do a set of test until tomorrow. I added 15 > today at 3:30 and will check results again tomorrow and see what they are > at. You said added to much would cause some bacteria issue. > > So over doing can be a bad thing? I would think if it was eating all the > ammonia and the nitrite were at zero I thought that would be good, bit > that's why I'm here to figure out what's happening wrong. > > They only media that's in the filets are the bio wheels. I have the > Marineland filets and they have the pre filets with the carbon in them and > the bio wheels so nothing is there but the bio wheels. > > The other think I have done to the water is topped off the tank. NO WATER > changes. As far as the KH during the cycle I have not tested for that. I > will run the tests tomorrow and report back. > > I'll post in the afternoon when I get home and give a full update on the > levels as of tomorrow and I'll test for everything. > > Jack > > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@> > wrote: > > > > The "Baseline Testing" was probably from my blog (URL in my sig). Not > > very many sites even tell folks about finding their tap water > > baseline. That's why I wrote that article quite a while back > > (probably 2004) in another forum and then re-wrote it on my blog when > > I started my blog in 2007. It's one of the most important things to > > know when starting out so you know what kind of fish will do best in > > your tap water so you don't have to think about using all the other > > chemical fixes that are thrown at people for a quick fix. It also > > lets you know if you do need some kind of supplement to raise your KH > > level. It looks like your water stays pretty stable out of the tap > > through the 48 hour baseline so that's good. And your water > > parameters give you a broad spectrum of fish you can keep although > > your water is a little on the hard side (GH = General Hardness) but > > most fish adapt OK to that parameter, besides it usually goes down in an > established tank as all of the ecology starts to utilize many of the trace > elements that make up the GH level. > > > > How much ammonia did you add to start with? 30ml is WAY too much to > > be adding to your tank at one time. This is likely causing your > > nitrite eating bacteria some problems. For a 55G, you should be > > adding only 10ml per day... maybe twice a day, every 12 hours, once > > the cycle is fully established, to keep the ammonia eating bacteria at > > full capacity until you are ready for your fish. > > > > Do me a favor. Test your tank. Make sure you shake all bottles more > > than the directions say and double check your test procedures to make > > sure your numbers are as accurate as possible. Note all test results. > > Add 10ml of ammonia. Test immediately for ammonia and log results. > > 12 hours later, test again and log results. If ammonia is down to > > zero, add 10ml more of ammonia. 12 hours later (24 hours from initial > > test), test again and log results. Give me those numbers. Continue > > doing this daily regimen until we have your cycling figured out. > > > > Another group member (can't recall their name right now) is having > > similar issues with their fishless cycle. > > > > NO.. something is still not right with your fishless cycle. The > > nitrates HAVE to climb as the end product of the nitrogen cycle. > > Since yours are not climbing, something isn't right. > > > > Tell us more about your filtration? Exactly what kind of filter media > > do you have in your filters? You mentioned not having the carbon, > > which is good, but what other types of filter media do you have in them? > > > > Have you done any PWC's (partial water changes) during the fishless > > cycling process? If you haven't done any yet, GOOD! You are not > > supposed to do them unless you have a low KH level, which you do not > > have unless it's crashing in the fishless cycling tank. What have > > your KH levels been during the fishless cycle? > > > > I'll wait for your reply before coming up with even more questions. > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles > > referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically > > under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) > > > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] > > On Behalf Of fishdudeut > > Sent: Wednesday, September 02, 2009 5:57 PM > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > Subject: [AquaticLife] Fishless Cycle. > > > > Fishless Cycle. > > > > Ok I have been in the process of doing a fishless cycle. I add the > > ammonia and it goes off the chart above the highest level of the test > > card (SUPER DARK GREEN). I let it set for a while and after about 6 > > or 7 days I saw it start to drop. I can add 30 ML of Ammonia to my 55 > > gallon tank and the next day (24 hours or so) it will be at 0. I > > started testing for nitrite and it made it about to 2 or 3 and now > > after about a week it's down to zero. My nitrate have never spiked > > they are still between 5 and 10. saw them above 10 one time but could have > been a failed test. > > > > I have a tetra mast test kit. For Ammonia, Nitrite and PH as well as > > GH and KH. I have an API test kit for Nitrates. > > > > I did run a base line on my tap water from a blog I found and can't > > remember the ULR anymore. > > > > Straight from the tap. With API water Conditioner Ammonia 0 Nitrate 0 > > Nitrate 0 Ph 7.5 GH 12 KH 4 > > > > Day 2 > > Ammonia 0 > > Nitrate 0 > > Nitrate 0 > > Ph 7.5 > > GH 12 > > KH 4 > > > > Day 3 > > Ammonia 0 > > Nitrate 0 - (A slightly darker shade, nit up to .025) Nitrate 0 Ph 7.5 > > GH 12 KH 4 > > > > I'm concerned about the Nitrate never getting above 10. They are the > > color between 5 and 10. I'll always read that they would be 100 or > > something like that. > > > > > > Background on the tank. > > > > I set it up fresh, bought the tank new and picked up a bio wheel Dual > > filer off Crags List for $5 and had to replace the bio Wheels. Added a > > 2nd Bio Wheel Single filter new and also did not add the carbon I > > have read both ways and decided not to add it as of yet. The gravel is > > new and I spend some time washing it to remove all the bust and what > > not from it. The plants are fake. The heater is set to 76 and runs > > between 76 and 77 depending on the time of day. > > > > I'm going to keep live breeders as well as some Cory cats. > > > > Questions. > > > > Everything I have read tells me when nitrite and ammonia are at O and > > you add the ammonia to the tank to spike it and it's gone within 24 > > hours the tank is cycled I have done this for the last 2 days and both > > ammonia and nitrite come back as zero. I even took a water sample to > > one of my LFS and had them test the water as well and they reading > > also came back at 0 and the nitrate was at 5. > > > > So do I do the 70% water change or not worry about it since my > > nitrates are low? I was to the understanding the reason behind this > > was to remove the nitrates. Anyhow this is pretty long and I'm sure > > I'll end up with more questions along that way. > > > > Jack. >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 43074	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 9/3/2009
Subject: Re: Fishless Cycle.

Are the first two "8/08" supposed to be 8/28??? Well, maybe not since the third date range has "8/09 - 8/28". If I'm reading this correctly, you added 30ml of Ammonia on "8/08" and even with the "Ammonia Off the chart", you added another 30ml of Ammonia between "8/09 - 8/28"? If this is correct, then I'm not sure what might be happening with your cycle but I think it would not work at that high of an ammonia level. I've never tried to use ammonia at that high of a level and have always strived to keep it between 4-5ppm per all of the Fishless Cycling instruction sites. Here's one theory that is popping into my head but this would have to be tested to verify the theory... With that much ammonia to start, from all I've read, the nitrifying bacteria will have a tough time growing and I'm wondering if the ammonia wasn't simply evaporating, rather than being converted to nitrite, then nitrate, which would explain your low nitrate level and the lack of a nitrite spike. Possibly, after enough ammonia evaporated, you started to get a little cycling done which is why you never did get a BIG nitrite spike and your nitrates continue to be relatively low. Then, when you followed up with another overdose of ammonia to either 30ml or 15ml, which would raise the ammonia level to at least 7ppm (or 14ppm with 30ml), any nitrification that might have started to happen went into a stall again or possibly even died off some, until some of the ammonia evaporated and then you get some nitrification happening again. You do not have to start over but you do need to get back on the right track and follow the instructions for a week or so to see how things work out. Hopefully, your Bio-Wheels have some of the three nitrifying bacteria (nitrospira, nitrosospira and nitrosomonas) growing on them so you will at least have a BIG jump start over starting from scratch. Just follow the directions. Hopefully, with your 9/3 test results showing 10ppm of nitrate, it means your tank is cycling a little... unless there is a problem with your testing procedures since you indicate you may have erred on the nitrate test. Double check the instructions prior to testing and during the test to try and get accurate results. Now... to my suggested plan of attack at this point... Test your ammonia. If it's at 0.0ppm, add 10ml of ammonia (for a 55G tank). Immediately re-test the ammonia. It should be around 5.0ppm. If it is, also test nitrite and nitrate. Log results. After 12 hours or so, re-test again and log results. If the ammonia is down to 0.0ppm, then the nitrites should be showing some kind of a level. If they aren't, then something is wrong with the testing. If the ammonia is down to 0.0ppm and there are some nitrites present, then re-dose the tank with 10ml of ammonia and wait 12 hours. Re-test and log results. Post all of these results as your 24 hour regimen so we can see what is happening and advise further. Hopefully, if you stick to the proper dosage, you will start to see your cycling start to rapidly gain hold, presuming some of the nitrifying bacteria are alive and/or survived the overdosing. Remember, that ammonia, while it is eaten by nitrifying bacteria at low levels, at higher levels, it's used as a disinfectant, meaning it kills bacteria. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of fishdudeut Sent: Thursday, September 03, 2009 5:23 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Fishless Cycle. Here the reading. 8/08 - 3:45 Ammonia 0 - Nitrite 0 - Nitrate 0 - Ph 7.5 - GH 12 - KH 4 - Temp 76.6 Added 30 ML Ammonia 8/08 - 9:00 PM - Ammonia Off the chart 8/09 - 8/28 - Added 30 ML Ammonia 8/29 - 7:15 Ammonia 0 - Nitrite 3 - Nitrate 5 - PH 7.5 - GH 12 - KH 4 - temp 76.5 Added 15 ML Ammonia 8/29 - 8:00 Ammonia 0.5 - Nitrite 3 - Nitrate 5 - PH 7.5 - GH 12 - KH 4 - temp 76.4 Added 15 ML Ammonia 8/30 - 9:15 Ammonia 0 - Nitrite 1 - Nitrate 5/10 - PH 7.5 - GH 12 - KH 4 - temp 76.2 Added 15 ML ammonia 8/30 - 8:15 Ammonia .25 - Nitrite 1 - Nitrate 5 - PH DNT - GH DNT- KH DNT- temp 76.5 Added 5 Ml Ammonia 8/31 - 5:30 Ammonia 0 - Nitrite DNT - Nitrate DNT PH DNT - GH DNT - KH DNT - temp 76.1 Added 10 ML Ammonia 8/31 - 4:20 Ammonia 0 - Nitrite 0 - Nitrate 5/10 - PH 7.4 - GH 12 - KH 5 - temp 76..0 Added 10 ML Ammonia 9/1 - 5:30 Ammonia 0 - Nitrite .0 - Nitrate 5/10 - PH DNT - GH DNT- KH DNT- temp 76.4 Added 10 ML Ammonia 9/1 - 2:30 Ammonia 0 - Nitrite 0 - Nitrate 5 - PH DNT - GH DNT- KH DNT - temp 76.8 Added 10 ML Ammonia 9/2 - 5:25 Ammonia .25 - Nitrite DNY - Nitrate DNT- PH DNT - GH DNT - KH DNT - temp 76.6 Added 10 ML Ammonia 9/3 - 2:25 Ammonia 0 - Nitrite 0 - Nitrate 10 - PH 7.4 - GH 13 - KH 5 - temp 76.7 Today I did each test 3 times to make sure I got the proper readings. The nitrate test came out 40 for the first test and the next 2 came out 10. I'm thinking I was think ammonia and added 8 drops of one of the solutions instead of 10. Not sure. I looked at your blog on the filters and the way my filters are set up you cannot cut an "H" in them they are the emperor one is the 400 and the other is the 280. Looks like I can get the carbon out just not with the "H" cut. Anyhow thanks for the info and any ideas? Should I cut back to 5 ML of ammonia one time a day for a while or still do 10 one or two times a day? I've toyed with the idea of starting over, but that would be pretty stupid. --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@...> wrote: > > Well, 30ml of ammonia in a 55G tank would have raised the ammonia to > 14ppm so I'm surprised if you would ever get the ammonia eating > bacteria growing at that level... at least from all of the fishless > cycling threads that I've read over the years, if the ammonia even gets up to the 6-7ppm level, it can > cause problems. Even at 15ml in a 55G, that raises the ammonia level to > 7ppm. There's a reason why the level we strive for is 4-5ppm IN EVERY > FISHLESS CYCLING ARTICLE... because it has been found in countless > fishless cycling experiments to be the optimum level. Too much lower > and it takes a LOT longer or the tank ends up being cycled for a much > smaller bioload. Too much higher and other problems develop... as you are seeing. > > You should cut it back to 10ml at a time and then you can dose it > every 12 hours with this level. This is all you need to do since a > fully stocked and properly maintained aquarium only produces around > 5ppm of ammonia each day, so building a larger nitrifying bacteria > colony is simply not needed. They are just going to die off when you > stock your tank, since it will not be producing enough ammonia to feed > all of the extra bacteria colonies that you grew. > > Yes, overdoing it can be a bad thing. > > For example, when cooking, if it takes the 15 minutes at 400F to cook > that small frozen pizza, then it must be better to raise the temp to 1,200F... > right? NOPE.. you end up with a SEVERELY overcooked pizza on the > outside and maybe still mushy on the inside. Maybe that's not a good > analogy but looking at a chemistry analogy... if drinking H2O is > good.. then drinking > H2O2 must be better since it has an extra Oxygen molecule.... right? > NOPE AGAIN. H2O2 is Hydrogen Peroxide and while you might end up with > nice white teeth, the rest of you won't fair so well. ;-) > > Now, back to your cycling. I need more data. When you are checking > twice a day, what are the numbers for temperature, pH, ammonia, > nitrite, nitrate, GH, KH? I know you said you will not be able to > test until tomorrow, which is fine, but let us know ALL of the information that is available. > > It's good that you are running JUST the Bio-Wheels. Are they spinning OK? > They don't have to buzz like a top, just as long as they are turning > on a regular basis. I have one that spins like crazy and another that > just spins about one rotation a second or two but in either case, they > work fine. Of course, I have a lot of other filter media as well. As > far as your Marineland filter cartridges with the built-in carbon, you > will probably want to modify them to add more filter floss and trash > the carbon. See my blog article, "Filter Profile - Marineland > Bio-Wheel" to see how I have cut open the black plastic screen that > holds the carbon and then added more filter floss to add to the > mechanical filtration. In a fully stocked tank, that thin blue filter > floss pad that is on the Marineland filters will clog up quickly > causing the water to overflow the filter cartridge and while that will > still keep the tank cycled, due to the Bio-Wheels, you will not be > getting proper mechanical filtration of any fish poop, detritus sucked up by the filter. > > While at my blog, also read my article on proper "Filter Cleaning & > Maintenance..." so you do not repeat the mistakes made by so many > newbies when they follow the directions from the filter companies... > who are just trying to sell filters, not necessarily do the best thing > for your fish. Of course, that is why Dr. Tim Hovanec invented the > Bio-Wheel, so that they could tell people to trash the filter > cartridges every few weeks without causing harm to the fish... but > it's simply not needed unless you like to transfer money from your > wallet to someone else's wallet... and if you like doing that, I'll > give you my PayPal addy and you can transfer some to me too! ;-) > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles > referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically > under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) > > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] > On Behalf Of fishdudeut > Sent: Wednesday, September 02, 2009 10:31 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Fishless Cycle. > > I started out added 30 ML of ammonia and after seeing the VERY high > results I cut it down to 20 and then down to 15. Been doing 15 every since. > > I have been checking twice a day and I get zero ammonia and zero > nitrite after about 12 hours. I can't do a set of test until tomorrow. > I added 15 today at 3:30 and will check results again tomorrow and see > what they are at. You said added to much would cause some bacteria issue. > > So over doing can be a bad thing? I would think if it was eating all > the ammonia and the nitrite were at zero I thought that would be good, > bit that's why I'm here to figure out what's happening wrong. > > They only media that's in the filets are the bio wheels. I have the > Marineland filets and they have the pre filets with the carbon in them > and the bio wheels so nothing is there but the bio wheels. > > The other think I have done to the water is topped off the tank. NO > WATER changes. As far as the KH during the cycle I have not tested for > that. I will run the tests tomorrow and report back. > > I'll post in the afternoon when I get home and give a full update on > the levels as of tomorrow and I'll test for everything. > > Jack > > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" > <GoldLenny@> > wrote: > > > > The "Baseline Testing" was probably from my blog (URL in my sig). > > Not very many sites even tell folks about finding their tap water > > baseline. That's why I wrote that article quite a while back > > (probably 2004) in another forum and then re-wrote it on my blog > > when I started my blog in 2007. It's one of the most important > > things to know when starting out so you know what kind of fish will > > do best in your tap water so you don't have to think about using all > > the other chemical fixes that are thrown at people for a quick fix. > > It also lets you know if you do need some kind of supplement to > > raise your KH level. It looks like your water stays pretty stable > > out of the tap through the 48 hour baseline so that's good. And > > your water parameters give you a broad spectrum of fish you can keep > > although your water is a little on the hard side (GH = General > > Hardness) but most fish adapt OK to that parameter, besides it > > usually goes down in an > established tank as all of the ecology starts to utilize many of the > trace elements that make up the GH level. > > > > How much ammonia did you add to start with? 30ml is WAY too much to > > be adding to your tank at one time. This is likely causing your > > nitrite eating bacteria some problems. For a 55G, you should be > > adding only 10ml per day... maybe twice a day, every 12 hours, once > > the cycle is fully established, to keep the ammonia eating bacteria > > at full capacity until you are ready for your fish. > > > > Do me a favor. Test your tank. Make sure you shake all bottles > > more than the directions say and double check your test procedures > > to make sure your numbers are as accurate as possible. Note all test results. > > Add 10ml of ammonia. Test immediately for ammonia and log results. > > 12 hours later, test again and log results. If ammonia is down to > > zero, add 10ml more of ammonia. 12 hours later (24 hours from > > initial test), test again and log results. Give me those numbers. > > Continue doing this daily regimen until we have your cycling figured out. > > > > Another group member (can't recall their name right now) is having > > similar issues with their fishless cycle. > > > > NO.. something is still not right with your fishless cycle. The > > nitrates HAVE to climb as the end product of the nitrogen cycle. > > Since yours are not climbing, something isn't right. > > > > Tell us more about your filtration? Exactly what kind of filter > > media do you have in your filters? You mentioned not having the > > carbon, which is good, but what other types of filter media do you have in them? > > > > Have you done any PWC's (partial water changes) during the fishless > > cycling process? If you haven't done any yet, GOOD! You are not > > supposed to do them unless you have a low KH level, which you do not > > have unless it's crashing in the fishless cycling tank. What have > > your KH levels been during the fishless cycle? > > > > I'll wait for your reply before coming up with even more questions. > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles > > referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, > > alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) > > > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] > > On Behalf Of fishdudeut > > Sent: Wednesday, September 02, 2009 5:57 PM > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > Subject: [AquaticLife] Fishless Cycle. > > > > Fishless Cycle. > > > > Ok I have been in the process of doing a fishless cycle. I add the > > ammonia and it goes off the chart above the highest level of the > > test card (SUPER DARK GREEN). I let it set for a while and after > > about 6 or 7 days I saw it start to drop. I can add 30 ML of > > Ammonia to my 55 gallon tank and the next day (24 hours or so) it > > will be at 0. I started testing for nitrite and it made it about to > > 2 or 3 and now after about a week it's down to zero. My nitrate > > have never spiked they are still between 5 and 10. saw them above 10 > > one time but could have > been a failed test. > > > > I have a tetra mast test kit. For Ammonia, Nitrite and PH as well as > > GH and KH. I have an API test kit for Nitrates. > > > > I did run a base line on my tap water from a blog I found and can't > > remember the ULR anymore. > > > > Straight from the tap. With API water Conditioner Ammonia 0 Nitrate > > 0 Nitrate 0 Ph 7.5 GH 12 KH 4 > > > > Day 2 > > Ammonia 0 > > Nitrate 0 > > Nitrate 0 > > Ph 7.5 > > GH 12 > > KH 4 > > > > Day 3 > > Ammonia 0 > > Nitrate 0 - (A slightly darker shade, nit up to .025) Nitrate 0 Ph > > 7.5 GH 12 KH 4 > > > > I'm concerned about the Nitrate never getting above 10. They are > > the color between 5 and 10. I'll always read that they would be 100 > > or something like that. > > > > > > Background on the tank. > > > > I set it up fresh, bought the tank new and picked up a bio wheel > > Dual filer off Crags List for $5 and had to replace the bio Wheels. > > Added a 2nd Bio Wheel Single filter new and also did not add the > > carbon I have read both ways and decided not to add it as of yet. > > The gravel is new and I spend some time washing it to remove all the > > bust and what not from it. The plants are fake. The heater is set > > to 76 and runs between 76 and 77 depending on the time of day. > > > > I'm going to keep live breeders as well as some Cory cats. > > > > Questions. > > > > Everything I have read tells me when nitrite and ammonia are at O > > and you add the ammonia to the tank to spike it and it's gone within > > 24 hours the tank is cycled I have done this for the last 2 days and > > both ammonia and nitrite come back as zero. I even took a water > > sample to one of my LFS and had them test the water as well and they > > reading also came back at 0 and the nitrate was at 5. > > > > So do I do the 70% water change or not worry about it since my > > nitrates are low? I was to the understanding the reason behind this > > was to remove the nitrates. Anyhow this is pretty long and I'm sure > > I'll end up with more questions along that way. > > > > Jack.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 43075	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 9/3/2009
Subject: TFSRI Makes Network News Podcast

Print isn't dead for Tankquilizer magazine. This podcast is 38:27 long. It is mainly about things going on in the world of computers & networking. I listen to it occasionally, but this one caught my eye with the mention of the Tanquilizer. The question of internal politics of fish shows is brushed upon as well. You can listen to the whole thing, but the fish talk, starting with robotic fish, and ending with the TFSRI show starts at 24:45 and goes for about 9 minutes. I've sent this message around to various people who I know would have an interest, but for this list, let me make some clarifications. The Tankquilizer is the publication of the Tropical Fish Society of Rhode Island (TFSRI). Ned's Fish Factory is an interesting fish store in, I believe, Millis, MA, though it may be Medford-it's right near the town line. The actual name is Uncle Ned's Fish factory, after the owner, who has had the moniker for many, many years, even prior to opening the store. The part about the politics of the judging is just that, talk. I judged the show many times, and the judges are not given to playing politics while judging, and if they know the owner of a fish, they will not judge that class unless absolutely necessary to avoid any signs of impropriety. Link to TFSRI: http://www.tfsri.net Link to Uncle Ned's: http://www.unclenedsfishfactory.com (and, yes, it is in Millis. I know how to get there, so the location is not that important to me <g>) \\Steve// [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 43076	From: fishdudeut	Date: 9/3/2009
Subject: Re: Fishless Cycle.

Yes they were date ranges, Ok I did add the ammonia at 3:30 this after noon and did not check again. I'll do the next check in the morning before I go to work. I work 6 am to 2 pm so some morning as you can see can be hard to do the tests, I do have a question if I add the 10ML of ammonia and they do not reach 5 PPM do I add more? Like maybe another 1 ML? If so how low should it be below 5 before I add more? Would I add at 4 PPM? I will post results in a couple of days when I get some data for you all. --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@...> wrote: > > Are the first two "8/08" supposed to be 8/28??? Well, maybe not since the > third date range has "8/09 - 8/28". If I'm reading this correctly, you > added 30ml of Ammonia on "8/08" and even with the "Ammonia Off the chart", > you added another 30ml of Ammonia between "8/09 - 8/28"? If this is > correct, then I'm not sure what might be happening with your cycle but I > think it would not work at that high of an ammonia level. I've never tried > to use ammonia at that high of a level and have always strived to keep it > between 4-5ppm per all of the Fishless Cycling instruction sites. > > Here's one theory that is popping into my head but this would have to be > tested to verify the theory... > > With that much ammonia to start, from all I've read, the nitrifying bacteria > will have a tough time growing and I'm wondering if the ammonia wasn't > simply evaporating, rather than being converted to nitrite, then nitrate, > which would explain your low nitrate level and the lack of a nitrite spike. > Possibly, after enough ammonia evaporated, you started to get a little > cycling done which is why you never did get a BIG nitrite spike and your > nitrates continue to be relatively low. > > Then, when you followed up with another overdose of ammonia to either 30ml > or 15ml, which would raise the ammonia level to at least 7ppm (or 14ppm with > 30ml), any nitrification that might have started to happen went into a stall > again or possibly even died off some, until some of the ammonia evaporated > and then you get some nitrification happening again. > > You do not have to start over but you do need to get back on the right track > and follow the instructions for a week or so to see how things work out. > Hopefully, your Bio-Wheels have some of the three nitrifying bacteria > (nitrospira, nitrosospira and nitrosomonas) growing on them so you will at > least have a BIG jump start over starting from scratch. Just follow the > directions. Hopefully, with your 9/3 test results showing 10ppm of nitrate, > it means your tank is cycling a little... unless there is a problem with > your testing procedures since you indicate you may have erred on the nitrate > test. Double check the instructions prior to testing and during the test to > try and get accurate results. > > Now... to my suggested plan of attack at this point... > > Test your ammonia. If it's at 0.0ppm, add 10ml of ammonia (for a 55G tank). > Immediately re-test the ammonia. It should be around 5.0ppm. If it is, > also test nitrite and nitrate. Log results. After 12 hours or so, re-test > again and log results. If the ammonia is down to 0.0ppm, then the nitrites > should be showing some kind of a level. If they aren't, then something is > wrong with the testing. If the ammonia is down to 0.0ppm and there are some > nitrites present, then re-dose the tank with 10ml of ammonia and wait 12 > hours. Re-test and log results. Post all of these results as your 24 hour > regimen so we can see what is happening and advise further. > > Hopefully, if you stick to the proper dosage, you will start to see your > cycling start to rapidly gain hold, presuming some of the nitrifying > bacteria are alive and/or survived the overdosing. > > Remember, that ammonia, while it is eaten by nitrifying bacteria at low > levels, at higher levels, it's used as a disinfectant, meaning it kills > bacteria. > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right > side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) > > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On > Behalf Of fishdudeut > Sent: Thursday, September 03, 2009 5:23 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Fishless Cycle. > > Here the reading. > > 8/08 - 3:45 > Ammonia 0 - Nitrite 0 - Nitrate 0 - Ph 7.5 - GH 12 - KH 4 - Temp 76.6 > > Added 30 ML Ammonia > > 8/08 - 9:00 PM - Ammonia Off the chart > > 8/09 - 8/28 - Added 30 ML Ammonia > > 8/29 - 7:15 > Ammonia 0 - Nitrite 3 - Nitrate 5 - PH 7.5 - GH 12 - KH 4 - temp 76.5 Added > 15 ML Ammonia > 8/29 - 8:00 > Ammonia 0.5 - Nitrite 3 - Nitrate 5 - PH 7.5 - GH 12 - KH 4 - temp 76.4 > Added 15 ML Ammonia > > 8/30 - 9:15 > Ammonia 0 - Nitrite 1 - Nitrate 5/10 - PH 7.5 - GH 12 - KH 4 - temp 76.2 > Added 15 ML ammonia > > 8/30 - 8:15 > Ammonia .25 - Nitrite 1 - Nitrate 5 - PH DNT - GH DNT- KH DNT- temp 76.5 > Added 5 Ml Ammonia > > 8/31 - 5:30 > Ammonia 0 - Nitrite DNT - Nitrate DNT PH DNT - GH DNT - KH DNT - temp 76.1 > Added 10 ML Ammonia > > 8/31 - 4:20 > Ammonia 0 - Nitrite 0 - Nitrate 5/10 - PH 7.4 - GH 12 - KH 5 - temp 76..0 > > Added 10 ML Ammonia > > 9/1 - 5:30 > Ammonia 0 - Nitrite .0 - Nitrate 5/10 - PH DNT - GH DNT- KH DNT- temp 76.4 > Added 10 ML Ammonia > > 9/1 - 2:30 > Ammonia 0 - Nitrite 0 - Nitrate 5 - PH DNT - GH DNT- KH DNT - temp 76.8 > Added 10 ML Ammonia > > 9/2 - 5:25 > Ammonia .25 - Nitrite DNY - Nitrate DNT- PH DNT - GH DNT - KH DNT - temp > 76.6 Added 10 ML Ammonia > > 9/3 - 2:25 > Ammonia 0 - Nitrite 0 - Nitrate 10 - PH 7.4 - GH 13 - KH 5 - temp 76.7 > > Today I did each test 3 times to make sure I got the proper readings. The > nitrate test came out 40 for the first test and the next 2 came out 10. I'm > thinking I was think ammonia and added 8 drops of one of the solutions > instead of 10. Not sure. > > > I looked at your blog on the filters and the way my filters are set up you > cannot cut an "H" in them they are the emperor one is the 400 and the other > is the 280. Looks like I can get the carbon out just not with the "H" cut. > > Anyhow thanks for the info and any ideas? Should I cut back to 5 ML of > ammonia one time a day for a while or still do 10 one or two times a day? > I've toyed with the idea of starting over, but that would be pretty stupid. > > > > > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@> > wrote: > > > > Well, 30ml of ammonia in a 55G tank would have raised the ammonia to > > 14ppm so I'm surprised if you would ever get the ammonia eating > > bacteria growing at that level... at least from all of the fishless > > cycling threads that I've read over the years, if the ammonia even gets up > to the 6-7ppm level, it can > > cause problems. Even at 15ml in a 55G, that raises the ammonia level to > > 7ppm. There's a reason why the level we strive for is 4-5ppm IN EVERY > > FISHLESS CYCLING ARTICLE... because it has been found in countless > > fishless cycling experiments to be the optimum level. Too much lower > > and it takes a LOT longer or the tank ends up being cycled for a much > > smaller bioload. Too much higher and other problems develop... as you are > seeing. > > > > You should cut it back to 10ml at a time and then you can dose it > > every 12 hours with this level. This is all you need to do since a > > fully stocked and properly maintained aquarium only produces around > > 5ppm of ammonia each day, so building a larger nitrifying bacteria > > colony is simply not needed. They are just going to die off when you > > stock your tank, since it will not be producing enough ammonia to feed > > all of the extra bacteria colonies that you grew. > > > > Yes, overdoing it can be a bad thing. > > > > For example, when cooking, if it takes the 15 minutes at 400F to cook > > that small frozen pizza, then it must be better to raise the temp to > 1,200F... > > right? NOPE.. you end up with a SEVERELY overcooked pizza on the > > outside and maybe still mushy on the inside. Maybe that's not a good > > analogy but looking at a chemistry analogy... if drinking H2O is > > good.. then drinking > > H2O2 must be better since it has an extra Oxygen molecule.... right? > > NOPE AGAIN. H2O2 is Hydrogen Peroxide and while you might end up with > > nice white teeth, the rest of you won't fair so well. ;-) > > > > Now, back to your cycling. I need more data. When you are checking > > twice a day, what are the numbers for temperature, pH, ammonia, > > nitrite, nitrate, GH, KH? I know you said you will not be able to > > test until tomorrow, which is fine, but let us know ALL of the information > that is available. > > > > It's good that you are running JUST the Bio-Wheels. Are they spinning OK? > > They don't have to buzz like a top, just as long as they are turning > > on a regular basis. I have one that spins like crazy and another that > > just spins about one rotation a second or two but in either case, they > > work fine. Of course, I have a lot of other filter media as well. As > > far as your Marineland filter cartridges with the built-in carbon, you > > will probably want to modify them to add more filter floss and trash > > the carbon. See my blog article, "Filter Profile - Marineland > > Bio-Wheel" to see how I have cut open the black plastic screen that > > holds the carbon and then added more filter floss to add to the > > mechanical filtration. In a fully stocked tank, that thin blue filter > > floss pad that is on the Marineland filters will clog up quickly > > causing the water to overflow the filter cartridge and while that will > > still keep the tank cycled, due to the Bio-Wheels, you will not be > > getting proper mechanical filtration of any fish poop, detritus sucked up > by the filter. > > > > While at my blog, also read my article on proper "Filter Cleaning & > > Maintenance..." so you do not repeat the mistakes made by so many > > newbies when they follow the directions from the filter companies... > > who are just trying to sell filters, not necessarily do the best thing > > for your fish. Of course, that is why Dr. Tim Hovanec invented the > > Bio-Wheel, so that they could tell people to trash the filter > > cartridges every few weeks without causing harm to the fish... but > > it's simply not needed unless you like to transfer money from your > > wallet to someone else's wallet... and if you like doing that, I'll > > give you my PayPal addy and you can transfer some to me too! ;-) > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles > > referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically > > under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) > > > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] > > On Behalf Of fishdudeut > > Sent: Wednesday, September 02, 2009 10:31 PM > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Fishless Cycle. > > > > I started out added 30 ML of ammonia and after seeing the VERY high > > results I cut it down to 20 and then down to 15. Been doing 15 every > since. > > > > I have been checking twice a day and I get zero ammonia and zero > > nitrite after about 12 hours. I can't do a set of test until tomorrow. > > I added 15 today at 3:30 and will check results again tomorrow and see > > what they are at. You said added to much would cause some bacteria issue. > > > > So over doing can be a bad thing? I would think if it was eating all > > the ammonia and the nitrite were at zero I thought that would be good, > > bit that's why I'm here to figure out what's happening wrong. > > > > They only media that's in the filets are the bio wheels. I have the > > Marineland filets and they have the pre filets with the carbon in them > > and the bio wheels so nothing is there but the bio wheels. > > > > The other think I have done to the water is topped off the tank. NO > > WATER changes. As far as the KH during the cycle I have not tested for > > that. I will run the tests tomorrow and report back. > > > > I'll post in the afternoon when I get home and give a full update on > > the levels as of tomorrow and I'll test for everything. > > > > Jack > > > > > > > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" > > <GoldLenny@> > > wrote: > > > > > > The "Baseline Testing" was probably from my blog (URL in my sig). > > > Not very many sites even tell folks about finding their tap water > > > baseline. That's why I wrote that article quite a while back > > > (probably 2004) in another forum and then re-wrote it on my blog > > > when I started my blog in 2007. It's one of the most important > > > things to know when starting out so you know what kind of fish will > > > do best in your tap water so you don't have to think about using all > > > the other chemical fixes that are thrown at people for a quick fix. > > > It also lets you know if you do need some kind of supplement to > > > raise your KH level. It looks like your water stays pretty stable > > > out of the tap through the 48 hour baseline so that's good. And > > > your water parameters give you a broad spectrum of fish you can keep > > > although your water is a little on the hard side (GH = General > > > Hardness) but most fish adapt OK to that parameter, besides it > > > usually goes down in an > > established tank as all of the ecology starts to utilize many of the > > trace elements that make up the GH level. > > > > > > How much ammonia did you add to start with? 30ml is WAY too much to > > > be adding to your tank at one time. This is likely causing your > > > nitrite eating bacteria some problems. For a 55G, you should be > > > adding only 10ml per day... maybe twice a day, every 12 hours, once > > > the cycle is fully established, to keep the ammonia eating bacteria > > > at full capacity until you are ready for your fish. > > > > > > Do me a favor. Test your tank. Make sure you shake all bottles > > > more than the directions say and double check your test procedures > > > to make sure your numbers are as accurate as possible. Note all test > results. > > > Add 10ml of ammonia. Test immediately for ammonia and log results. > > > 12 hours later, test again and log results. If ammonia is down to > > > zero, add 10ml more of ammonia. 12 hours later (24 hours from > > > initial test), test again and log results. Give me those numbers. > > > Continue doing this daily regimen until we have your cycling figured > out. > > > > > > Another group member (can't recall their name right now) is having > > > similar issues with their fishless cycle. > > > > > > NO.. something is still not right with your fishless cycle. The > > > nitrates HAVE to climb as the end product of the nitrogen cycle. > > > Since yours are not climbing, something isn't right. > > > > > > Tell us more about your filtration? Exactly what kind of filter > > > media do you have in your filters? You mentioned not having the > > > carbon, which is good, but what other types of filter media do you have > in them? > > > > > > Have you done any PWC's (partial water changes) during the fishless > > > cycling process? If you haven't done any yet, GOOD! You are not > > > supposed to do them unless you have a low KH level, which you do not > > > have unless it's crashing in the fishless cycling tank. What have > > > your KH levels been during the fishless cycle? > > > > > > I'll wait for your reply before coming up with even more questions. > > > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles > > > referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, > > > alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] > > > On Behalf Of fishdudeut > > > Sent: Wednesday, September 02, 2009 5:57 PM > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > > Subject: [AquaticLife] Fishless Cycle. > > > > > > Fishless Cycle. > > > > > > Ok I have been in the process of doing a fishless cycle. I add the > > > ammonia and it goes off the chart above the highest level of the > > > test card (SUPER DARK GREEN). I let it set for a while and after > > > about 6 or 7 days I saw it start to drop. I can add 30 ML of > > > Ammonia to my 55 gallon tank and the next day (24 hours or so) it > > > will be at 0. I started testing for nitrite and it made it about to > > > 2 or 3 and now after about a week it's down to zero. My nitrate > > > have never spiked they are still between 5 and 10. saw them above 10 > > > one time but could have > > been a failed test. > > > > > > I have a tetra mast test kit. For Ammonia, Nitrite and PH as well as > > > GH and KH. I have an API test kit for Nitrates. > > > > > > I did run a base line on my tap water from a blog I found and can't > > > remember the ULR anymore. > > > > > > Straight from the tap. With API water Conditioner Ammonia 0 Nitrate > > > 0 Nitrate 0 Ph 7.5 GH 12 KH 4 > > > > > > Day 2 > > > Ammonia 0 > > > Nitrate 0 > > > Nitrate 0 > > > Ph 7.5 > > > GH 12 > > > KH 4 > > > > > > Day 3 > > > Ammonia 0 > > > Nitrate 0 - (A slightly darker shade, nit up to .025) Nitrate 0 Ph > > > 7.5 GH 12 KH 4 > > > > > > I'm concerned about the Nitrate never getting above 10. They are > > > the color between 5 and 10. I'll always read that they would be 100 > > > or something like that. > > > > > > > > > Background on the tank. > > > > > > I set it up fresh, bought the tank new and picked up a bio wheel > > > Dual filer off Crags List for $5 and had to replace the bio Wheels. > > > Added a 2nd Bio Wheel Single filter new and also did not add the > > > carbon I have read both ways and decided not to add it as of yet. > > > The gravel is new and I spend some time washing it to remove all the > > > bust and what not from it. The plants are fake. The heater is set > > > to 76 and runs between 76 and 77 depending on the time of day. > > > > > > I'm going to keep live breeders as well as some Cory cats. > > > > > > Questions. > > > > > > Everything I have read tells me when nitrite and ammonia are at O > > > and you add the ammonia to the tank to spike it and it's gone within > > > 24 hours the tank is cycled I have done this for the last 2 days and > > > both ammonia and nitrite come back as zero. I even took a water > > > sample to one of my LFS and had them test the water as well and they > > > reading also came back at 0 and the nitrate was at 5. > > > > > > So do I do the 70% water change or not worry about it since my > > > nitrates are low? I was to the understanding the reason behind this > > > was to remove the nitrates. Anyhow this is pretty long and I'm sure > > > I'll end up with more questions along that way. > > > > > > Jack. >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 43077	From: fishdudeut	Date: 9/3/2009
Subject: Stability Water Conditioner.

Stability Water Conditioner has anyone sued this before? Will it do what it says it will or it it a waste of money like most of the other stuff like cycle and AmQuel+?

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 43078	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 9/4/2009
Subject: Re: Stability Water Conditioner.

The short answer is that 95% of the "stuff" that is sold by stores, for our fish, simply is not needed and most of it is bottled crap that usually causes more problems than they purport to solve. Remember the basic consumer warnings, "Caveat Emptor" (Buyer Beware) and "If it sounds too good to be true, it probably is". Now, here's the long answer.... While companies like Hagen, SeaChem and API make plenty of good and useful products, they unfortunately also have to compete with each other and some of the quackery that happens in the hobby and come up with their own versions of crappy products... hopefully making their crappy competitive product not as harmful as the product they are competing with. All that said... Stability is going to do what they are advertising but what they are saying is not what you think they are saying... a clever play on words. Here's a snip from the SeaChem page on Stability... http://www.seachem.com/Products/product_pages/Stability.html... "...StabilityR is formulated specifically for the aquarium and contains a synergistic blend of aerobic, anaerobic, and facultative bacteria which facilitate the breakdown of waste organics, ammonia, nitrite and nitrate...." Since nitrifying bacteria are aerobic bacteria, it is obvious that this product has other "stuff" in it and anaerobic bacteria are not necessarily a good thing in our tanks. I'm not sure what facultative bacteria are... and since we do not want to leave fish waste in our tanks long enough for it to breakdown (unless it's a live planted tank), then I'm not sure why we would want or need bacteria that breaks it down. The MSDS (Material Safety Data Sheet) is available for download from the SeaChem site but it does not show anything other than "an aqueous solution of naturally occurring bacteria". This is something I look for that I consider a quality company... when they have their products MSDS available right on their website. When they hide their MSDS, then I start to worry. API has theirs available also. Now... all that said... There are two products that do work for quick-cycling a tank, both based on the works of Dr. Tim Hovanec, formerly the Chief Science Officer for Marineland and the inventor of many cutting edge aquarium products, including the Bio-Wheel and Bio-Spira, the first bottled bacteria that actually worked. When Marineland sold out and merged with Tetra and other companies, Dr. Tim left to form his own company, http://www.DrTimsAquatics.com and he has advanced the technology of Bio-Spira into "Dr. Tim's One And Only" which does work as a nitrifying bacteria in a bottle. Tetra, using the Bio-Spira technology, also came out with their own new product called Safe Start. I know that Dr. Tim's product works and I've seen posts from others that couldn't find Dr. Tim's so they got some Safe Start and said that it worked also... as it should since it was based on Dr. Tim's technology. These two products have the actual nitrifying bacteria, nitrospira, nitrosospira and nitrosomonas, in a hibernative state and you add the product to an un-cycled aquarium and then 24 hours late, you can safely add fish. Dr. Tim is actually a member of this group and replies from time to time when discussions of his products pop up. There might still be some minor cycling issues with the use of the above two products, depending on the bioload that is added to the tank, but it's a very short and minor cycling issue. With higher pH water, you do have to watch out for ammonia since ammonia is much more toxic at low levels in higher pH water. Your mention of Amquel+ is not the same type of product compared to Hagen's Cycle, SeaChem's Stability, etc. Amquel+ is a tap water treatment for treating chlorine/chloramine and supposedly treats for other nitrogenous wastes, etc. BUT... please remember that when you throw one chemical into the water that supposedly is going to take care of another chemical.. which chemical is worse in the long run? Using a simple dechlor product like API's Tap Water Conditioner or other product that only has Sodium Thiosulfate and EDTA. The S.T. treats the chlorine/chloramine and the EDTA is a chelating agent that binds with heavy metals to make them non-toxic. If you had a really high pH level in the high 7's or 8's then the use of a product like SeaChem's Prime would be beneficial as it also treats any residual ammonia from the tap water and/or the fish. Since your tap water isn't showing any ammonia, I'm guessing your tap water is disinfected with chlorine, not chloramine. My public utility uses chloramine which is a compound made up of chlorine and ammonia so when the dechlor product breaks down the chloramine, it leaves 0.5ppm of ammonia behind. When doing a 25% PWC, this only adds 0.125ppm of ammonia which is barely detectable and with a properly cycled tank, the filtration immediately converts this through the nitrogen cycle. In a tank with a HIGH ph level in the high 7's or 8's, then the use of an ammonia detoxifying dechlor product should be considered. There are NO bottled quick fixes that solve the basic maintenance that MUST be done on our fish tanks. An old saying, "Dilution is the solution to pollution" is one of the most appropriate for our tanks and it's the way God does it. Tides and currents constantly dilute/refresh the ocean's waters. Melting snow or rains constantly dilute/refresh the waters of rivers and lakes. For our tanks, with their closed ecosystems, doing a minimum of regular weekly 25% PWC's (or more often if a heavy bioload) is the best solution for removing the waste while siphon vacuuming the gravel while removing the old water and fish poop from the tank. Then the added fresh water dilutes any remaining pollution. Weekly, proper cleaning of our filters to remove the fish waste from them is another thing that should be done. There are still so many people that leave their filters for weeks and weeks, even months at a time without cleaning them. Here's what one of my online friends from the Koi-Ponds group says about filter cleaning... FILTRATION: HAVING TO CLEAN A FILTER CAN BE GOOD. First of all, if a filter does not collect junk and clog, it isn't doing its job and working to get the junk out of the water. Since IT'S ALL ABOUT WATER QUALITY, the filter is supposed to take organics out of the water to IMPROVE water quality. (Inorganics = rocks = really aren't a problem.) If a filter catches organics and the filter is not clogged (yet) but also not cleaned - then the organics can dissolve and go back into the water in solution = LOWERING THE WATER QUALITY. SO, the object of a good pond keeper is to IMPROVE water quality = clean the organics from ANY filter BEFORE they dissolve = every other day, every third day....... Sorry for bringing reality into your lives.... I know everyone wants a filter that doesn't EVER need to be cleaned. Imagine that the filter catches poop. So it is the fishes' toilet. How often do you clean (flush) your toilet? Why? Why not the fishes' also. :-) Bill On that note, this LONG answer is done. Aren't you glad I gave the short answer first. ;-) Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of fishdudeut Sent: Thursday, September 03, 2009 9:10 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Stability Water Conditioner. Stability Water Conditioner has anyone sued this before? Will it do what it says it will or it it a waste of money like most of the other stuff like cycle and AmQuel+?

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 43079	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 9/4/2009
Subject: Re: Fishless Cycle.

As far as your question about the 10ml of ammonia and 5.0ppm... they are one and the same. 10ml of ammonia in 50G of water is equal to 5.0ppm of ammonia. In your 55G tank, it would be right under 5.0ppm of ammonia which is where you want to be... between 4-5ppm. This would be a good way to test your ammonia testing skills. If you add 2ml of ammonia, you should get 1.0ppm on your test kit. 4ml should read 2.0ppm. 6ml should read 3.0ppm, 8ml should read 4.0ppm and 10ml should read 5.0ppm. As far as when to add more ammonia, in the past when I did some fishless cycles, I usually did not add more until the current level is down to 0.0 or 1.0ppm, then top it off to bring it back up to 4-5ppm, using the above amounts. To double check any math issues, you can use the calculator at the bottom of this page... http://www.fishforums.net/aquarium-calculator.htm You can also change the numbers in other fields to facilitate backwards checking of numbers. For example, if you have 2ppm of ammonia and you want to top it off to 5ppm, then change the field for Desired Level to 3ppm and put in your tank volume and the final field will show how much ammonia you would need. I've given you the numbers for a 50-55G tank but for others reading this, the calculator can be used for other sizes of tanks. Note that they have 9.5% ammonia solution as the default level but I've seen 5% to 10% or more ammonia solutions so double check what yours is. It should be on the bottle under ingredients. I'm not sure why this site has 9.5% as the default level as the most common level is 10% but maybe the 10% is rounded up and this site knows something I don't know. Something I forgot in your other thread about Stability. One of the good things about doing a fishless cycle, compared to using one of the two legitimate products like Dr. Tim's One And Only, is that you LEARN so much more about the nitrogen cycle and how it works... which is SO IMPORTANT to our hobby. Also, in the 4-6 weeks of fishless cycling, you have time to learn so much other important things about fish keeping and learn which fish are suitable for your baseline water, etc., etc., etc. If you had found out about the two good bottle bacteria products first, you would never know about all these other things and you might be mixing fish that do not like your baseline water parameters, etc., etc., etc. Several years ago, in another forum, I did a Top 10 List about Fishless Cycling (similar to a David Letterman Top 10 List) to bring a little humor to the subject. That forum has been through countless changes over the years but I still think my Top 10 List is a sticky over there... as well as several other articles/threads that I did on that site before starting up my blog but many of the links no longer work. BTW.. the Top 10 reasons to fishless cycle is... 10. A 99 cents bottle of Ammonia is much cheaper than losing ALL of your fish and the cost to replace them.(GoldLenny) 9. Gives you time to get parameters stable (ie. if you are going to have any PH swings they are going to be right from the start), and to find out how it all works without fish lives on the line (like if you have rocks, will they leech? That first month gives you a chance to find out without fish dying.(Hailey) 8. Gives you time to really research stocking, and decide what you want. Most people decide on one stocking list and then find something else they like better, maybe even two or three times before settling on one.(Hailey) 7. Can introduce a much higher bioload right from the start (starting your tank with, say, 10 fish instead of 3...makes it a lot more interesting.(Hailey) 6. Because a month of time spent cycling is better than a month of money saving for more fish.(Krazy_Keeper) ...and you dont have to deal with constant ich in the begining. (TrixR4Kids364)(TIE... lol...I'm running out of room.) 5. You won't have to worry about a bunch of overzealous PETA members setting up a picket line in front of your house and then throwing a bucket of rotting fish guts on you when you try to leave the house.(GoldLenny) 4. Gives you time to make sure you didn't get any defective equipment (leaky tank, spazzy heater, etc).(Hailey) 3. To give yourself a break from doing daily, twice daily or even every four hour PWC's (25% partial water changes) and the stress and strain from the constant worry if your fish were going to live or die from day to day.(GoldLenny) 2. Faster (much faster...a few weeks as opposed to a few months).(Hailey) AND THE NUMBER ONE REASON'S (we have a TIE) TO FISHLESS CYCLE YOUR TANK IS: 1a. You get to play Mad Scientist! MUAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!!(CoolTow1) And since we now have a TIE for the Number One answer... 1b. Because you might just get a compliment and a "smiley with tongue" from one of the Mermaids out here!(GoldLenny, thanks to Jillian_05) Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of fishdudeut Sent: Thursday, September 03, 2009 8:52 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Fishless Cycle. Yes they were date ranges, Ok I did add the ammonia at 3:30 this after noon and did not check again. I'll do the next check in the morning before I go to work. I work 6 am to 2 pm so some morning as you can see can be hard to do the tests, I do have a question if I add the 10ML of ammonia and they do not reach 5 PPM do I add more? Like maybe another 1 ML? If so how low should it be below 5 before I add more? Would I add at 4 PPM? I will post results in a couple of days when I get some data for you all. --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@...> wrote: > > Are the first two "8/08" supposed to be 8/28??? Well, maybe not since the > third date range has "8/09 - 8/28". If I'm reading this correctly, you > added 30ml of Ammonia on "8/08" and even with the "Ammonia Off the > chart", you added another 30ml of Ammonia between "8/09 - 8/28"? If > this is correct, then I'm not sure what might be happening with your > cycle but I think it would not work at that high of an ammonia level. > I've never tried to use ammonia at that high of a level and have > always strived to keep it between 4-5ppm per all of the Fishless Cycling instruction sites. > > Here's one theory that is popping into my head but this would have to > be tested to verify the theory... > > With that much ammonia to start, from all I've read, the nitrifying > bacteria will have a tough time growing and I'm wondering if the > ammonia wasn't simply evaporating, rather than being converted to > nitrite, then nitrate, which would explain your low nitrate level and the lack of a nitrite spike. > Possibly, after enough ammonia evaporated, you started to get a little > cycling done which is why you never did get a BIG nitrite spike and > your nitrates continue to be relatively low. > > Then, when you followed up with another overdose of ammonia to either > 30ml or 15ml, which would raise the ammonia level to at least 7ppm (or > 14ppm with 30ml), any nitrification that might have started to happen > went into a stall again or possibly even died off some, until some of > the ammonia evaporated and then you get some nitrification happening again. > > You do not have to start over but you do need to get back on the right > track and follow the instructions for a week or so to see how things work out. > Hopefully, your Bio-Wheels have some of the three nitrifying bacteria > (nitrospira, nitrosospira and nitrosomonas) growing on them so you > will at least have a BIG jump start over starting from scratch. Just > follow the directions. Hopefully, with your 9/3 test results showing > 10ppm of nitrate, it means your tank is cycling a little... unless > there is a problem with your testing procedures since you indicate you > may have erred on the nitrate test. Double check the instructions > prior to testing and during the test to try and get accurate results. > > Now... to my suggested plan of attack at this point... > > Test your ammonia. If it's at 0.0ppm, add 10ml of ammonia (for a 55G tank). > Immediately re-test the ammonia. It should be around 5.0ppm. If it > is, also test nitrite and nitrate. Log results. After 12 hours or > so, re-test again and log results. If the ammonia is down to 0.0ppm, > then the nitrites should be showing some kind of a level. If they > aren't, then something is wrong with the testing. If the ammonia is > down to 0.0ppm and there are some nitrites present, then re-dose the > tank with 10ml of ammonia and wait 12 hours. Re-test and log results. > Post all of these results as your 24 hour regimen so we can see what is happening and advise further. > > Hopefully, if you stick to the proper dosage, you will start to see > your cycling start to rapidly gain hold, presuming some of the > nitrifying bacteria are alive and/or survived the overdosing. > > Remember, that ammonia, while it is eaten by nitrifying bacteria at > low levels, at higher levels, it's used as a disinfectant, meaning it > kills bacteria. > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles > referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically > under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) > > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] > On Behalf Of fishdudeut > Sent: Thursday, September 03, 2009 5:23 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Fishless Cycle. > > Here the reading. > > 8/08 - 3:45 > Ammonia 0 - Nitrite 0 - Nitrate 0 - Ph 7.5 - GH 12 - KH 4 - Temp > 76.6 > > Added 30 ML Ammonia > > 8/08 - 9:00 PM - Ammonia Off the chart > > 8/09 - 8/28 - Added 30 ML Ammonia > > 8/29 - 7:15 > Ammonia 0 - Nitrite 3 - Nitrate 5 - PH 7.5 - GH 12 - KH 4 - temp 76.5 > Added > 15 ML Ammonia > 8/29 - 8:00 > Ammonia 0.5 - Nitrite 3 - Nitrate 5 - PH 7.5 - GH 12 - KH 4 - temp > 76.4 Added 15 ML Ammonia > > 8/30 - 9:15 > Ammonia 0 - Nitrite 1 - Nitrate 5/10 - PH 7.5 - GH 12 - KH 4 - temp > 76.2 Added 15 ML ammonia > > 8/30 - 8:15 > Ammonia .25 - Nitrite 1 - Nitrate 5 - PH DNT - GH DNT- KH DNT- temp > 76.5 Added 5 Ml Ammonia > > 8/31 - 5:30 > Ammonia 0 - Nitrite DNT - Nitrate DNT PH DNT - GH DNT - KH DNT - temp > 76.1 Added 10 ML Ammonia > > 8/31 - 4:20 > Ammonia 0 - Nitrite 0 - Nitrate 5/10 - PH 7.4 - GH 12 - KH 5 - temp > 76..0 > > Added 10 ML Ammonia > > 9/1 - 5:30 > Ammonia 0 - Nitrite .0 - Nitrate 5/10 - PH DNT - GH DNT- KH DNT- temp > 76.4 Added 10 ML Ammonia > > 9/1 - 2:30 > Ammonia 0 - Nitrite 0 - Nitrate 5 - PH DNT - GH DNT- KH DNT - temp > 76.8 Added 10 ML Ammonia > > 9/2 - 5:25 > Ammonia .25 - Nitrite DNY - Nitrate DNT- PH DNT - GH DNT - KH DNT - > temp > 76.6 Added 10 ML Ammonia > > 9/3 - 2:25 > Ammonia 0 - Nitrite 0 - Nitrate 10 - PH 7.4 - GH 13 - KH 5 - temp 76.7 > > Today I did each test 3 times to make sure I got the proper readings. > The nitrate test came out 40 for the first test and the next 2 came > out 10. I'm thinking I was think ammonia and added 8 drops of one of > the solutions instead of 10. Not sure. > > > I looked at your blog on the filters and the way my filters are set up > you cannot cut an "H" in them they are the emperor one is the 400 and > the other is the 280. Looks like I can get the carbon out just not with the "H" cut. > > Anyhow thanks for the info and any ideas? Should I cut back to 5 ML of > ammonia one time a day for a while or still do 10 one or two times a day? > I've toyed with the idea of starting over, but that would be pretty stupid. > > > > > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" > <GoldLenny@> > wrote: > > > > Well, 30ml of ammonia in a 55G tank would have raised the ammonia to > > 14ppm so I'm surprised if you would ever get the ammonia eating > > bacteria growing at that level... at least from all of the fishless > > cycling threads that I've read over the years, if the ammonia even > > gets up > to the 6-7ppm level, it can > > cause problems. Even at 15ml in a 55G, that raises the ammonia level to > > 7ppm. There's a reason why the level we strive for is 4-5ppm IN > > EVERY FISHLESS CYCLING ARTICLE... because it has been found in > > countless fishless cycling experiments to be the optimum level. Too > > much lower and it takes a LOT longer or the tank ends up being > > cycled for a much smaller bioload. Too much higher and other > > problems develop... as you are > seeing. > > > > You should cut it back to 10ml at a time and then you can dose it > > every 12 hours with this level. This is all you need to do since a > > fully stocked and properly maintained aquarium only produces around > > 5ppm of ammonia each day, so building a larger nitrifying bacteria > > colony is simply not needed. They are just going to die off when > > you stock your tank, since it will not be producing enough ammonia > > to feed all of the extra bacteria colonies that you grew. > > > > Yes, overdoing it can be a bad thing. > > > > For example, when cooking, if it takes the 15 minutes at 400F to > > cook that small frozen pizza, then it must be better to raise the > > temp to > 1,200F... > > right? NOPE.. you end up with a SEVERELY overcooked pizza on the > > outside and maybe still mushy on the inside. Maybe that's not a > > good analogy but looking at a chemistry analogy... if drinking H2O > > is good.. then drinking > > H2O2 must be better since it has an extra Oxygen molecule.... right? > > NOPE AGAIN. H2O2 is Hydrogen Peroxide and while you might end up > > with nice white teeth, the rest of you won't fair so well. ;-) > > > > Now, back to your cycling. I need more data. When you are checking > > twice a day, what are the numbers for temperature, pH, ammonia, > > nitrite, nitrate, GH, KH? I know you said you will not be able to > > test until tomorrow, which is fine, but let us know ALL of the > > information > that is available. > > > > It's good that you are running JUST the Bio-Wheels. Are they spinning OK? > > They don't have to buzz like a top, just as long as they are turning > > on a regular basis. I have one that spins like crazy and another > > that just spins about one rotation a second or two but in either > > case, they work fine. Of course, I have a lot of other filter media > > as well. As far as your Marineland filter cartridges with the > > built-in carbon, you will probably want to modify them to add more > > filter floss and trash the carbon. See my blog article, "Filter > > Profile - Marineland Bio-Wheel" to see how I have cut open the black > > plastic screen that holds the carbon and then added more filter > > floss to add to the mechanical filtration. In a fully stocked tank, > > that thin blue filter floss pad that is on the Marineland filters > > will clog up quickly causing the water to overflow the filter > > cartridge and while that will still keep the tank cycled, due to the > > Bio-Wheels, you will not be getting proper mechanical filtration of > > any fish poop, detritus sucked up > by the filter. > > > > While at my blog, also read my article on proper "Filter Cleaning & > > Maintenance..." so you do not repeat the mistakes made by so many > > newbies when they follow the directions from the filter companies... > > who are just trying to sell filters, not necessarily do the best > > thing for your fish. Of course, that is why Dr. Tim Hovanec > > invented the Bio-Wheel, so that they could tell people to trash the > > filter cartridges every few weeks without causing harm to the > > fish... but it's simply not needed unless you like to transfer money > > from your wallet to someone else's wallet... and if you like doing > > that, I'll give you my PayPal addy and you can transfer some to me > > too! ;-) > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles > > referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, > > alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) > > > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] > > On Behalf Of fishdudeut > > Sent: Wednesday, September 02, 2009 10:31 PM > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Fishless Cycle. > > > > I started out added 30 ML of ammonia and after seeing the VERY high > > results I cut it down to 20 and then down to 15. Been doing 15 every > since. > > > > I have been checking twice a day and I get zero ammonia and zero > > nitrite after about 12 hours. I can't do a set of test until tomorrow. > > I added 15 today at 3:30 and will check results again tomorrow and > > see what they are at. You said added to much would cause some bacteria issue. > > > > So over doing can be a bad thing? I would think if it was eating all > > the ammonia and the nitrite were at zero I thought that would be > > good, bit that's why I'm here to figure out what's happening wrong. > > > > They only media that's in the filets are the bio wheels. I have the > > Marineland filets and they have the pre filets with the carbon in > > them and the bio wheels so nothing is there but the bio wheels. > > > > The other think I have done to the water is topped off the tank. NO > > WATER changes. As far as the KH during the cycle I have not tested > > for that. I will run the tests tomorrow and report back. > > > > I'll post in the afternoon when I get home and give a full update on > > the levels as of tomorrow and I'll test for everything. > > > > Jack > > > > > > > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" > > <GoldLenny@> > > wrote: > > > > > > The "Baseline Testing" was probably from my blog (URL in my sig). > > > Not very many sites even tell folks about finding their tap water > > > baseline. That's why I wrote that article quite a while back > > > (probably 2004) in another forum and then re-wrote it on my blog > > > when I started my blog in 2007. It's one of the most important > > > things to know when starting out so you know what kind of fish > > > will do best in your tap water so you don't have to think about > > > using all the other chemical fixes that are thrown at people for a quick fix. > > > It also lets you know if you do need some kind of supplement to > > > raise your KH level. It looks like your water stays pretty stable > > > out of the tap through the 48 hour baseline so that's good. And > > > your water parameters give you a broad spectrum of fish you can > > > keep although your water is a little on the hard side (GH = > > > General > > > Hardness) but most fish adapt OK to that parameter, besides it > > > usually goes down in an > > established tank as all of the ecology starts to utilize many of the > > trace elements that make up the GH level. > > > > > > How much ammonia did you add to start with? 30ml is WAY too much > > > to be adding to your tank at one time. This is likely causing > > > your nitrite eating bacteria some problems. For a 55G, you should > > > be adding only 10ml per day... maybe twice a day, every 12 hours, > > > once the cycle is fully established, to keep the ammonia eating > > > bacteria at full capacity until you are ready for your fish. > > > > > > Do me a favor. Test your tank. Make sure you shake all bottles > > > more than the directions say and double check your test procedures > > > to make sure your numbers are as accurate as possible. Note all > > > test > results. > > > Add 10ml of ammonia. Test immediately for ammonia and log results. > > > 12 hours later, test again and log results. If ammonia is down to > > > zero, add 10ml more of ammonia. 12 hours later (24 hours from > > > initial test), test again and log results. Give me those numbers. > > > Continue doing this daily regimen until we have your cycling > > > figured > out. > > > > > > Another group member (can't recall their name right now) is having > > > similar issues with their fishless cycle. > > > > > > NO.. something is still not right with your fishless cycle. The > > > nitrates HAVE to climb as the end product of the nitrogen cycle. > > > Since yours are not climbing, something isn't right. > > > > > > Tell us more about your filtration? Exactly what kind of filter > > > media do you have in your filters? You mentioned not having the > > > carbon, which is good, but what other types of filter media do you > > > have > in them? > > > > > > Have you done any PWC's (partial water changes) during the > > > fishless cycling process? If you haven't done any yet, GOOD! You > > > are not supposed to do them unless you have a low KH level, which > > > you do not have unless it's crashing in the fishless cycling tank. > > > What have your KH levels been during the fishless cycle? > > > > > > I'll wait for your reply before coming up with even more questions. > > > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles > > > referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, > > > alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, > > > Month) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] > > > On Behalf Of fishdudeut > > > Sent: Wednesday, September 02, 2009 5:57 PM > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > > Subject: [AquaticLife] Fishless Cycle. > > > > > > Fishless Cycle. > > > > > > Ok I have been in the process of doing a fishless cycle. I add > > > the ammonia and it goes off the chart above the highest level of > > > the test card (SUPER DARK GREEN). I let it set for a while and > > > after about 6 or 7 days I saw it start to drop. I can add 30 ML > > > of Ammonia to my 55 gallon tank and the next day (24 hours or so) > > > it will be at 0. I started testing for nitrite and it made it > > > about to > > > 2 or 3 and now after about a week it's down to zero. My nitrate > > > have never spiked they are still between 5 and 10. saw them above > > > 10 one time but could have > > been a failed test. > > > > > > I have a tetra mast test kit. For Ammonia, Nitrite and PH as well > > > as GH and KH. I have an API test kit for Nitrates. > > > > > > I did run a base line on my tap water from a blog I found and > > > can't remember the ULR anymore. > > > > > > Straight from the tap. With API water Conditioner Ammonia 0 > > > Nitrate 0 Nitrate 0 Ph 7.5 GH 12 KH 4 > > > > > > Day 2 > > > Ammonia 0 > > > Nitrate 0 > > > Nitrate 0 > > > Ph 7.5 > > > GH 12 > > > KH 4 > > > > > > Day 3 > > > Ammonia 0 > > > Nitrate 0 - (A slightly darker shade, nit up to .025) Nitrate 0 Ph > > > 7.5 GH 12 KH 4 > > > > > > I'm concerned about the Nitrate never getting above 10. They are > > > the color between 5 and 10. I'll always read that they would be > > > 100 or something like that. > > > > > > > > > Background on the tank. > > > > > > I set it up fresh, bought the tank new and picked up a bio wheel > > > Dual filer off Crags List for $5 and had to replace the bio Wheels. > > > Added a 2nd Bio Wheel Single filter new and also did not add the > > > carbon I have read both ways and decided not to add it as of yet. > > > The gravel is new and I spend some time washing it to remove all > > > the bust and what not from it. The plants are fake. The heater is > > > set to 76 and runs between 76 and 77 depending on the time of day. > > > > > > I'm going to keep live breeders as well as some Cory cats. > > > > > > Questions. > > > > > > Everything I have read tells me when nitrite and ammonia are at O > > > and you add the ammonia to the tank to spike it and it's gone > > > within > > > 24 hours the tank is cycled I have done this for the last 2 days > > > and both ammonia and nitrite come back as zero. I even took a > > > water sample to one of my LFS and had them test the water as well > > > and they reading also came back at 0 and the nitrate was at 5. > > > > > > So do I do the 70% water change or not worry about it since my > > > nitrates are low? I was to the understanding the reason behind > > > this was to remove the nitrates. Anyhow this is pretty long and > > > I'm sure I'll end up with more questions along that way. > > > > > > Jack. > ------------------------------------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the home page. Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com to receive the digest, which includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com for the No E-Mail option where you will still be able to read messages on the group and post replies. Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com to receive individual e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 43080	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 9/4/2009
Subject: Something's Fishy In Wellington

A Florida community is using plecos to help keep swimming pools in the yards of foreclosed homes clean. http://www.wptv.com/content/news/centralpbc/wellington/story/catfish-wel lington-foreclosed-homes-algae-pools/UXfdieQW1k-SkLUwaNSCBQ.cspx http://tinyurl.com/ne9q9a \\Steve//

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 43081	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 9/4/2009
Subject: Re: Something's Fishy In Wellington

Umm.. what about filtration, or water changes? LOL With no water circulation that can't be a very nice home for those pleco's... I hope it rains a lot ;) Amber Steve Szabo wrote: > > > A Florida community is using plecos to help keep swimming pools in the > yards of foreclosed homes clean. > > http://www.wptv.com/content/news/centralpbc/wellington/story/catfish-wel > <http://www.wptv.com/content/news/centralpbc/wellington/story/catfish-wel> > lington-foreclosed-homes-algae-pools/UXfdieQW1k-SkLUwaNSCBQ.cspx > http://tinyurl.com/ne9q9a <http://tinyurl.com/ne9q9a> > > \\Steve// > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 43082	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 9/4/2009
Subject: Re: Something's Fishy In Wellington

I was more worried about the "chemicals" they had been using. Hopefully there was enough rain and evaporation to dilute the chemicals before they threw in the fish... or if they only used chlorine, that would evaporate on it's own after a few days. Fortunately, plecos are pretty tough fish and can handle some of the abuses of us fish keepers. Since even a small pool is usually at least 10,000G, with normal sized pools being in the 25,000G to 50,000G range, there is plenty of water volume to handle the bioload of 15 plecos, even without filtration/circulation. Now, if only they would throw in some floating island planters and lilies, that would help out the pool/pond's ecology and make it look pretty too. ;-) Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Amber Berglund Sent: Friday, September 04, 2009 10:03 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Something's Fishy In Wellington Umm.. what about filtration, or water changes? LOL With no water circulation that can't be a very nice home for those pleco's... I hope it rains a lot ;) Amber Steve Szabo wrote: > > > A Florida community is using plecos to help keep swimming pools in the > yards of foreclosed homes clean. > > http://www.wptv.com/content/news/centralpbc/wellington/story/catfish-w > el > <http://www.wptv.com/content/news/centralpbc/wellington/story/catfish- > wel> lington-foreclosed-homes-algae-pools/UXfdieQW1k-SkLUwaNSCBQ.cspx > http://tinyurl.com/ne9q9a <http://tinyurl.com/ne9q9a> > > \\Steve//

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 43083	From: pam andress	Date: 9/4/2009
Subject: Re: Something's Fishy In Wellington

What about the lake(s) they got these from. They took all of those and then they say to just put them back. How is the new owner going to know where to put them and what is this doing to the lakes? Pam To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com From: GoldLenny@... Date: Fri, 4 Sep 2009 13:36:32 -0500 Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Something's Fishy In Wellington I was more worried about the "chemicals" they had been using. Hopefully there was enough rain and evaporation to dilute the chemicals before they threw in the fish... or if they only used chlorine, that would evaporate on it's own after a few days. Fortunately, plecos are pretty tough fish and can handle some of the abuses of us fish keepers. Since even a small pool is usually at least 10,000G, with normal sized pools being in the 25,000G to 50,000G range, there is plenty of water volume to handle the bioload of 15 plecos, even without filtration/circulation. Now, if only they would throw in some floating island planters and lilies, that would help out the pool/pond's ecology and make it look pretty too. ;-) Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Amber Berglund Sent: Friday, September 04, 2009 10:03 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Something's Fishy In Wellington Umm.. what about filtration, or water changes? LOL With no water circulation that can't be a very nice home for those pleco's... I hope it rains a lot ;) Amber Steve Szabo wrote: > > > A Florida community is using plecos to help keep swimming pools in the > yards of foreclosed homes clean. > > http://www.wptv.com/content/news/centralpbc/wellington/story/catfish-w > el > <http://www.wptv.com/content/news/centralpbc/wellington/story/catfish- > wel> lington-foreclosed-homes-algae-pools/UXfdieQW1k-SkLUwaNSCBQ.cspx > http://tinyurl.com/ne9q9a <http://tinyurl.com/ne9q9a> > > \\Steve// [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 43084	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 9/4/2009
Subject: Re: Something's Fishy In Wellington

Good point Pam, they say they just "came from a lake", let's hope they give the new home owners information of what to do with their new "pond inhabitants" if they want their swimming pool back ;) I don't know about you guys but I'm not so sure I'd want to go swimming with 15 pleco's ;) 'specially common pleco's full grown, LOL. Amber pam andress wrote: > > > > What about the lake(s) they got these from. They took all of those and > then they say to just put them back. How is the new owner going to > know where to put them and what is this doing to the lakes? > > Pam > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > From: GoldLenny@... <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com> > Date: Fri, 4 Sep 2009 13:36:32 -0500 > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Something's Fishy In Wellington > > I was more worried about the "chemicals" they had been using. Hopefully > there was enough rain and evaporation to dilute the chemicals before they > threw in the fish... or if they only used chlorine, that would > evaporate on > it's own after a few days. > > Fortunately, plecos are pretty tough fish and can handle some of the > abuses > of us fish keepers. Since even a small pool is usually at least 10,000G, > with normal sized pools being in the 25,000G to 50,000G range, there is > plenty of water volume to handle the bioload of 15 plecos, even without > filtration/circulation. > > Now, if only they would throw in some floating island planters and lilies, > that would help out the pool/pond's ecology and make it look pretty > too. ;-) > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right > side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On > Behalf Of Amber Berglund > Sent: Friday, September 04, 2009 10:03 AM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Something's Fishy In Wellington > > Umm.. what about filtration, or water changes? LOL With no water > circulation > that can't be a very nice home for those pleco's... I hope it rains a > lot ;) > > Amber > > Steve Szabo wrote: > > > > > > A Florida community is using plecos to help keep swimming pools in the > > yards of foreclosed homes clean. > > > > > http://www.wptv.com/content/news/centralpbc/wellington/story/catfish-w > <http://www.wptv.com/content/news/centralpbc/wellington/story/catfish-w> > > el > > > <http://www.wptv.com/content/news/centralpbc/wellington/story/catfish- > <http://www.wptv.com/content/news/centralpbc/wellington/story/catfish-> > > wel> lington-foreclosed-homes-algae-pools/UXfdieQW1k-SkLUwaNSCBQ.cspx > > http://tinyurl.com/ne9q9a <http://tinyurl.com/ne9q9a> > <http://tinyurl.com/ne9q9a <http://tinyurl.com/ne9q9a>> > > > > \\Steve// > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 43085	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 9/4/2009
Subject: Re: Something's Fishy In Wellington

Most of the natural waterways in Florida are already home to breeding populations of many non-native species like Plecos, Cichlids, Goldfish, etc... fish that were released into these waterways... mostly NOT by man but by naturally occurring hurricanes and their related floods that flooded the man-made breeding ponds down in Florida, causing tens of thousands of non-native fish to be released into the wild. I doubt that Florida's waterways will ever be home to only native species ever again. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of pam andress Sent: Friday, September 04, 2009 1:39 PM To: aquaticlife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Something's Fishy In Wellington What about the lake(s) they got these from. They took all of those and then they say to just put them back. How is the new owner going to know where to put them and what is this doing to the lakes? Pam To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com From: GoldLenny@... Date: Fri, 4 Sep 2009 13:36:32 -0500 Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Something's Fishy In Wellington I was more worried about the "chemicals" they had been using. Hopefully there was enough rain and evaporation to dilute the chemicals before they threw in the fish... or if they only used chlorine, that would evaporate on it's own after a few days. Fortunately, plecos are pretty tough fish and can handle some of the abuses of us fish keepers. Since even a small pool is usually at least 10,000G, with normal sized pools being in the 25,000G to 50,000G range, there is plenty of water volume to handle the bioload of 15 plecos, even without filtration/circulation. Now, if only they would throw in some floating island planters and lilies, that would help out the pool/pond's ecology and make it look pretty too. ;-) Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Amber Berglund Sent: Friday, September 04, 2009 10:03 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Something's Fishy In Wellington Umm.. what about filtration, or water changes? LOL With no water circulation that can't be a very nice home for those pleco's... I hope it rains a lot ;) Amber Steve Szabo wrote: > > > A Florida community is using plecos to help keep swimming pools in the > yards of foreclosed homes clean. > > http://www.wptv.com/content/news/centralpbc/wellington/story/catfish-w > el > <http://www.wptv.com/content/news/centralpbc/wellington/story/catfish- > wel> lington-foreclosed-homes-algae-pools/UXfdieQW1k-SkLUwaNSCBQ.cspx > http://tinyurl.com/ne9q9a <http://tinyurl.com/ne9q9a> > > \\Steve//

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 43086	From: courtland_jacob	Date: 9/4/2009
Subject: 46 gallon bowfront

would this be ok for some peacocks, if so how many would you guys recamend, I plan to have an all male tank

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 43087	From: Donna Ransome	Date: 9/4/2009
Subject: Re: 46 gallon bowfront

What are the dimensions of the tank. Measure the sides not the middle. _____ From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of courtland_jacob Sent: Friday, September 04, 2009 6:44 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] 46 gallon bowfront would this be ok for some peacocks, if so how many would you guys recamend, I plan to have an all male tank [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 43088	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 9/4/2009
Subject: Re: Something's Fishy In Wellington

Most likely they were just adding chlorine. \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Lenny V. aka GoldLenny Sent: Friday, September 04, 2009 2:37 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Something's Fishy In Wellington I was more worried about the "chemicals" they had been using. Hopefully there was enough rain and evaporation to dilute the chemicals before they threw in the fish... or if they only used chlorine, that would evaporate on it's own after a few days. Fortunately, plecos are pretty tough fish and can handle some of the abuses of us fish keepers. Since even a small pool is usually at least 10,000G, with normal sized pools being in the 25,000G to 50,000G range, there is plenty of water volume to handle the bioload of 15 plecos, even without filtration/circulation. Now, if only they would throw in some floating island planters and lilies, that would help out the pool/pond's ecology and make it look pretty too. ;-) Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Amber Berglund Sent: Friday, September 04, 2009 10:03 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Something's Fishy In Wellington Umm.. what about filtration, or water changes? LOL With no water circulation that can't be a very nice home for those pleco's... I hope it rains a lot ;) Amber Steve Szabo wrote: > > > A Florida community is using plecos to help keep swimming pools in the > yards of foreclosed homes clean. > > http://www.wptv.com/content/news/centralpbc/wellington/story/catfish-w > el > <http://www.wptv.com/content/news/centralpbc/wellington/story/catfish- > wel> lington-foreclosed-homes-algae-pools/UXfdieQW1k-SkLUwaNSCBQ.cspx > http://tinyurl.com/ne9q9a <http://tinyurl.com/ne9q9a> > > \\Steve// ------------------------------------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the home page. Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com to receive the digest, which includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com for the No E-Mail option where you will still be able to read messages on the group and post replies. Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com to receive individual e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 43089	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 9/4/2009
Subject: TFSRI Makes Network News Podcast

It was brought to my attention that I neglected to place the link to the podcast in this message I sent last night. Here is the link, followed by the TinyURL version of it since it will wrap for most people. http://www.networkworld.com/podcasts/twistedpair/2009/082809twistedpair. html?source=NWWNLE_nlt_cool_tools_2009-09-03 http://tinyurl.com/mjea5l Print isn't dead for Tankquilizer magazine. This podcast is 38:27 long. It is mainly about things going on in the world of computers & networking. I listen to it occasionally, but this one caught my eye with the mention of the Tanquilizer. The question of internal politics of fish shows is brushed upon as well. You can listen to the whole thing, but the fish talk, starting with robotic fish, and ending with the TFSRI show starts at 24:45 and goes for about 9 minutes. I've sent this message around to various people who I know would have an interest, but for this list, let me make some clarifications. The Tankquilizer is the publication of the Tropical Fish Society of Rhode Island (TFSRI). Ned's Fish Factory is an interesting fish store in, I believe, Millis, MA, though it may be Medford-it's right near the town line. The actual name is Uncle Ned's Fish factory, after the owner, who has had the moniker for many, many years, even prior to opening the store. The part about the politics of the judging is just that, talk. I judged the show many times, and the judges are not given to playing politics while judging, and if they know the owner of a fish, they will not judge that class unless absolutely necessary to avoid any signs of impropriety. Link to TFSRI: http://www.tfsri.net Link to Uncle Ned's: http://www.unclenedsfishfactory.com (and, yes, it is in Millis. I know how to get there, so the location is not that important to me <g>) \\Steve// [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 43090	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 9/4/2009
Subject: Re: Something's Fishy In Wellington

I suspect that they would need to take a trip down to South America to dispose of the fish then. Had you read the comments, the author was excoriated for that comment. One thing I wondered about is why they were getting the fish from the big box fish store. There should be some fish farms in the area that could have given them a better price for a quantity. \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of pam andress Sent: Friday, September 04, 2009 2:39 PM To: aquaticlife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Something's Fishy In Wellington What about the lake(s) they got these from. They took all of those and then they say to just put them back. How is the new owner going to know where to put them and what is this doing to the lakes? Pam To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com From: GoldLenny@... Date: Fri, 4 Sep 2009 13:36:32 -0500 Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Something's Fishy In Wellington I was more worried about the "chemicals" they had been using. Hopefully there was enough rain and evaporation to dilute the chemicals before they threw in the fish... or if they only used chlorine, that would evaporate on it's own after a few days. Fortunately, plecos are pretty tough fish and can handle some of the abuses of us fish keepers. Since even a small pool is usually at least 10,000G, with normal sized pools being in the 25,000G to 50,000G range, there is plenty of water volume to handle the bioload of 15 plecos, even without filtration/circulation. Now, if only they would throw in some floating island planters and lilies, that would help out the pool/pond's ecology and make it look pretty too. ;-) Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Amber Berglund Sent: Friday, September 04, 2009 10:03 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Something's Fishy In Wellington Umm.. what about filtration, or water changes? LOL With no water circulation that can't be a very nice home for those pleco's... I hope it rains a lot ;) Amber Steve Szabo wrote: > > > A Florida community is using plecos to help keep swimming pools in the > yards of foreclosed homes clean. > > http://www.wptv.com/content/news/centralpbc/wellington/story/catfish-w > el > <http://www.wptv.com/content/news/centralpbc/wellington/story/catfish- > wel> lington-foreclosed-homes-algae-pools/UXfdieQW1k-SkLUwaNSCBQ.cspx > http://tinyurl.com/ne9q9a <http://tinyurl.com/ne9q9a> > > \\Steve//

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 43091	From: courtland_jacob	Date: 9/4/2009
Subject: Re: 46 gallon bowfront

I think 46 bow fronts are listed at 36"x16.25" and then 20 inches high, that is all I know I don't own one to measure the sides so i don't know what the 16.25 is but in all honestly I would assume it's the middle --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, Donna Ransome <djransome@...> wrote: > > What are the dimensions of the tank. Measure the sides not the middle. > > > > _____ > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On > Behalf Of courtland_jacob > Sent: Friday, September 04, 2009 6:44 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Subject: [AquaticLife] 46 gallon bowfront > > > > > > would this be ok for some peacocks, if so how many would you guys recamend, > I plan to have an all male tank > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 43092	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 9/4/2009
Subject: Re: Something's Fishy In Wellington

I do not recall that they got the Pleco's from a big box store... although the news segment showed a trip to a retail tank display to better show people what Pleco's were. I think the town's agent was actually getting the pleco's for free from a nearby lake... at least, that's how I read the article. The bucket of Pleco's being dumped into the pool looked like several full grown specimens, not the juvis that are found in most retail outlets. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Steve Szabo Sent: Friday, September 04, 2009 7:11 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Something's Fishy In Wellington I suspect that they would need to take a trip down to South America to dispose of the fish then. Had you read the comments, the author was excoriated for that comment. One thing I wondered about is why they were getting the fish from the big box fish store. There should be some fish farms in the area that could have given them a better price for a quantity. \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of pam andress Sent: Friday, September 04, 2009 2:39 PM To: aquaticlife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Something's Fishy In Wellington What about the lake(s) they got these from. They took all of those and then they say to just put them back. How is the new owner going to know where to put them and what is this doing to the lakes? Pam To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com From: GoldLenny@... Date: Fri, 4 Sep 2009 13:36:32 -0500 Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Something's Fishy In Wellington I was more worried about the "chemicals" they had been using. Hopefully there was enough rain and evaporation to dilute the chemicals before they threw in the fish... or if they only used chlorine, that would evaporate on it's own after a few days. Fortunately, plecos are pretty tough fish and can handle some of the abuses of us fish keepers. Since even a small pool is usually at least 10,000G, with normal sized pools being in the 25,000G to 50,000G range, there is plenty of water volume to handle the bioload of 15 plecos, even without filtration/circulation. Now, if only they would throw in some floating island planters and lilies, that would help out the pool/pond's ecology and make it look pretty too. ;-) Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Amber Berglund Sent: Friday, September 04, 2009 10:03 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Something's Fishy In Wellington Umm.. what about filtration, or water changes? LOL With no water circulation that can't be a very nice home for those pleco's... I hope it rains a lot ;) Amber Steve Szabo wrote: > > > A Florida community is using plecos to help keep swimming pools in the > yards of foreclosed homes clean. > > http://www.wptv.com/content/news/centralpbc/wellington/story/catfish-w > el > <http://www.wptv.com/content/news/centralpbc/wellington/story/catfish- > wel> lington-foreclosed-homes-algae-pools/UXfdieQW1k-SkLUwaNSCBQ.cspx > http://tinyurl.com/ne9q9a <http://tinyurl.com/ne9q9a> > > \\Steve//

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 43093	From: kuradi8	Date: 9/4/2009
Subject: Air Pumps

I bought a Whisper-60 for my 55g about a year ago and I'm disappointed with its output. I had two 24" curtain wands and thought they might have been too old/clogged so I replaced them with two 4" disks. They are also wimpy-wimpy-wimpy in their output. One just "sizzles" a little air, the other "blurps" a big bubble every 10 seconds or so. I think it's the air pump's fault. It started out weak and seems to have gotten worse. I would like to replace it with something with a bit more horsepower. Any recommendations? ~Kai (Pennsylvania)

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 43094	From: Jeremy Taylor	Date: 9/4/2009
Subject: new member intro

Hello, I just recently joined the group, and wanted to introduce myself. My name is Jeremy, and I live in upstate New York. I have a B.S. degree in wildlife biology, and have worked as an environmental educator, wildlife biologist, and zookeeper. I am currently working in the pet products industry. I have a strong interest in nature and the environment, and am also very interested in travel, photography, history, and different cultures and religions from around the world. I have always been very interested in goldfish and koi, and because I work in the pet industry, I am always looking for new sources of information! I am also very interested in the connections between culture, religion, and nature, and in personal views of nature and the environment. For the last few years I have been conducting a short questionnaire on these topics, and as I get responses back (more than 700 to date), I am posting them on the blog I created for the project, http://earthsurvey.blogspot.com I am hoping to get as many responses as I can, from a wide cross-section of society. Eventually, I hope to turn this into a book or documentary, although I am not sure of the timeline for that as of yet. If anyone is interested in taking the questionnaire, it can be accessed online at http://tinyurl.com/nx4ng7 I am hoping that many of you will take a few moments to answer it for me! If you have any questions or comments, please feel free to contact me directly! Regards, Jeremy ______________________________________________ "We do not inherit the Earth from our Ancestors; we borrow it from our Children." ~Native American proverb Answer my Earth Survey questionnaire at http://tinyurl.com/nx4ng7 Earth Survey Project http://earthsurvey.blogspot.com Project Facebook group http://www.facebook.com/group.php?gid=34705684632 Jeremy's website http://jeremyjtaylor.tripod.com Jeremy - Facebook http://www.facebook.com/jeremyjtaylor Jeremy's Photography http://jeremyjtaylor.shutterfly.com/

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 43095	From: Donna Ransome	Date: 9/4/2009
Subject: Re: 46 gallon bowfront

Yes I think they are more like 12” on the sides. So stock like it was 36” x 12”. I am growing out a trio of stuartgranti in my tank that size and it’s too small for them. _____ From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of courtland_jacob Sent: Friday, September 04, 2009 8:18 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: 46 gallon bowfront I think 46 bow fronts are listed at 36"x16.25" and then 20 inches high, that is all I know I don't own one to measure the sides so i don't know what the 16.25 is but in all honestly I would assume it's the middle --- In AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com, Donna Ransome <djransome@...> wrote: > > What are the dimensions of the tank. Measure the sides not the middle. > > > > _____ > > From: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com] On > Behalf Of courtland_jacob > Sent: Friday, September 04, 2009 6:44 PM > To: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com > Subject: [AquaticLife] 46 gallon bowfront > > > > > > would this be ok for some peacocks, if so how many would you guys recamend, > I plan to have an all male tank > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 43096	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 9/4/2009
Subject: Re: Something's Fishy In Wellington

I thought I saw they had gotten them from a Petco, but further looking, and I found this more complete article: http://www.sun-sentinel.com/news/nationworld/sfl-wellington-algae-p08170 9pnaug17,0,1723736.story http://tinyurl.com/nbqaja Which shows that they do, indeed, come from a fish farm. \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Lenny V. aka GoldLenny Sent: Friday, September 04, 2009 8:41 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Something's Fishy In Wellington I do not recall that they got the Pleco's from a big box store... although the news segment showed a trip to a retail tank display to better show people what Pleco's were. I think the town's agent was actually getting the pleco's for free from a nearby lake... at least, that's how I read the article. The bucket of Pleco's being dumped into the pool looked like several full grown specimens, not the juvis that are found in most retail outlets. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Steve Szabo Sent: Friday, September 04, 2009 7:11 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Something's Fishy In Wellington I suspect that they would need to take a trip down to South America to dispose of the fish then. Had you read the comments, the author was excoriated for that comment. One thing I wondered about is why they were getting the fish from the big box fish store. There should be some fish farms in the area that could have given them a better price for a quantity. \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of pam andress Sent: Friday, September 04, 2009 2:39 PM To: aquaticlife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Something's Fishy In Wellington What about the lake(s) they got these from. They took all of those and then they say to just put them back. How is the new owner going to know where to put them and what is this doing to the lakes? Pam To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com From: GoldLenny@... Date: Fri, 4 Sep 2009 13:36:32 -0500 Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Something's Fishy In Wellington I was more worried about the "chemicals" they had been using. Hopefully there was enough rain and evaporation to dilute the chemicals before they threw in the fish... or if they only used chlorine, that would evaporate on it's own after a few days. Fortunately, plecos are pretty tough fish and can handle some of the abuses of us fish keepers. Since even a small pool is usually at least 10,000G, with normal sized pools being in the 25,000G to 50,000G range, there is plenty of water volume to handle the bioload of 15 plecos, even without filtration/circulation. Now, if only they would throw in some floating island planters and lilies, that would help out the pool/pond's ecology and make it look pretty too. ;-) Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Amber Berglund Sent: Friday, September 04, 2009 10:03 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Something's Fishy In Wellington Umm.. what about filtration, or water changes? LOL With no water circulation that can't be a very nice home for those pleco's... I hope it rains a lot ;) Amber Steve Szabo wrote: > > > A Florida community is using plecos to help keep swimming pools in the > yards of foreclosed homes clean. > > http://www.wptv.com/content/news/centralpbc/wellington/story/catfish-w > el > <http://www.wptv.com/content/news/centralpbc/wellington/story/catfish- > wel> lington-foreclosed-homes-algae-pools/UXfdieQW1k-SkLUwaNSCBQ.cspx > http://tinyurl.com/ne9q9a <http://tinyurl.com/ne9q9a> > > \\Steve//

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 43097	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 9/4/2009
Subject: Re: new member intro

Jeremy, Welcome to the list. I do not know if this would be of interest to you, but I have a PDF file of a book published in 1856 in London called "THE AQUAYIYARIUM, FRESH AND MARINE; BEING AN ACCOUNT OF THE PRINCIPLES AND OBJECTS INVOLVED IN THE DOMESTIC. CULTURE OF WATER PLANTS AND ANIMALS," by one E, LANKESTER, M,D. I can e-mail it to you, if your e-mail system will take a file size of about 15MB or so. This is probably the closest I can come to your interest in culture, religion, and nature, though the book "The Toy Fish A History of the Aquarium Hobby in America - The First One Hundred Years" by Albert J. Klee. It is available from www.finleyaquaticbooks.com. There are actually three editions, but the first edition was a limited edition at 300 copies, and the last I saw, someone had it available for well over $300, and the third edition was also a limited edition with only 50 copies published. So, the so called Second Edition is the only one publicly available. Off hand, I cannot think of anything else in my print or digital libraries that might fit your interest. However, I think it could lead to some interesting discussions here. \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Jeremy Taylor Sent: Friday, September 04, 2009 10:05 PM To: AquaticLife Subject: [AquaticLife] new member intro Hello, I just recently joined the group, and wanted to introduce myself. My name is Jeremy, and I live in upstate New York. I have a B.S. degree in wildlife biology, and have worked as an environmental educator, wildlife biologist, and zookeeper. I am currently working in the pet products industry. I have a strong interest in nature and the environment, and am also very interested in travel, photography, history, and different cultures and religions from around the world. I have always been very interested in goldfish and koi, and because I work in the pet industry, I am always looking for new sources of information! I am also very interested in the connections between culture, religion, and nature, and in personal views of nature and the environment. For the last few years I have been conducting a short questionnaire on these topics, and as I get responses back (more than 700 to date), I am posting them on the blog I created for the project, http://earthsurvey.blogspot.com I am hoping to get as many responses as I can, from a wide cross-section of society. Eventually, I hope to turn this into a book or documentary, although I am not sure of the timeline for that as of yet. If anyone is interested in taking the questionnaire, it can be accessed online at http://tinyurl.com/nx4ng7 I am hoping that many of you will take a few moments to answer it for me! If you have any questions or comments, please feel free to contact me directly! Regards, Jeremy ______________________________________________ "We do not inherit the Earth from our Ancestors; we borrow it from our Children." ~Native American proverb Answer my Earth Survey questionnaire at http://tinyurl.com/nx4ng7 Earth Survey Project http://earthsurvey.blogspot.com Project Facebook group http://www.facebook.com/group.php?gid=34705684632 Jeremy's website http://jeremyjtaylor.tripod.com Jeremy - Facebook http://www.facebook.com/jeremyjtaylor Jeremy's Photography http://jeremyjtaylor.shutterfly.com/

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 43098	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 9/4/2009
Subject: Re: Something's Fishy In Wellington

Umm, what's a "years worth of pleco service"? In the 2nd to last paragraph it states what they paid for... I think they were ripped off, LOL. I wonder what they are getting for $700 a year... And they're going to destroy the pleco's? Why not give them back to the fish farm at least? Geez... Amber Steve Szabo wrote: > > > I thought I saw they had gotten them from a Petco, but further looking, > and I found this more complete article: > http://www.sun-sentinel.com/news/nationworld/sfl-wellington-algae-p08170 > <http://www.sun-sentinel.com/news/nationworld/sfl-wellington-algae-p08170> > 9pnaug17,0,1723736.story > http://tinyurl.com/nbqaja <http://tinyurl.com/nbqaja> > > Which shows that they do, indeed, come from a fish farm. > > \\Steve// > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] > On Behalf Of Lenny V. aka GoldLenny > Sent: Friday, September 04, 2009 8:41 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Something's Fishy In Wellington > > I do not recall that they got the Pleco's from a big box store... > although > the news segment showed a trip to a retail tank display to better show > people what Pleco's were. I think the town's agent was actually getting > the > pleco's for free from a nearby lake... at least, that's how I read the > article. The bucket of Pleco's being dumped into the pool looked like > several full grown specimens, not the juvis that are found in most > retail > outlets. > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right > side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, > Month) > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] > On > Behalf Of Steve Szabo > Sent: Friday, September 04, 2009 7:11 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Something's Fishy In Wellington > > I suspect that they would need to take a trip down to South America to > dispose of the fish then. Had you read the comments, the author was > excoriated for that comment. > > One thing I wondered about is why they were getting the fish from the > big > box fish store. There should be some fish farms in the area that could > have > given them a better price for a quantity. > > \\Steve// > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] > On Behalf Of pam andress > Sent: Friday, September 04, 2009 2:39 PM > To: aquaticlife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:aquaticlife%40yahoogroups.com> > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Something's Fishy In Wellington > > What about the lake(s) they got these from. They took all of those and > then > they say to just put them back. How is the new owner going to know where > to > put them and what is this doing to the lakes? > > Pam > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > From: GoldLenny@... <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com> > Date: Fri, 4 Sep 2009 13:36:32 -0500 > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Something's Fishy In Wellington > > I was more worried about the "chemicals" they had been using. Hopefully > there was enough rain and evaporation to dilute the chemicals before > they > threw in the fish... or if they only used chlorine, that would evaporate > on > it's own after a few days. > > Fortunately, plecos are pretty tough fish and can handle some of the > abuses > of us fish keepers. Since even a small pool is usually at least 10,000G, > with normal sized pools being in the 25,000G to 50,000G range, there is > plenty of water volume to handle the bioload of 15 plecos, even without > filtration/circulation. > > Now, if only they would throw in some floating island planters and > lilies, > that would help out the pool/pond's ecology and make it look pretty too. > ;-) > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> (Links to any articles > referenced > in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels > and > also under Archives by Year, > Month) > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] > On > Behalf Of Amber Berglund > Sent: Friday, September 04, 2009 10:03 AM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Something's Fishy In Wellington > > Umm.. what about filtration, or water changes? LOL With no water > circulation > that can't be a very nice home for those pleco's... I hope it rains a > lot ;) > > Amber > > Steve Szabo wrote: > > > > > > A Florida community is using plecos to help keep swimming pools in the > > > yards of foreclosed homes clean. > > > > > http://www.wptv.com/content/news/centralpbc/wellington/story/catfish-w > <http://www.wptv.com/content/news/centralpbc/wellington/story/catfish-w> > > el > > > <http://www.wptv.com/content/news/centralpbc/wellington/story/catfish- > <http://www.wptv.com/content/news/centralpbc/wellington/story/catfish-> > > wel> lington-foreclosed-homes-algae-pools/UXfdieQW1k-SkLUwaNSCBQ.cspx > > http://tinyurl.com/ne9q9a <http://tinyurl.com/ne9q9a> > <http://tinyurl.com/ne9q9a <http://tinyurl.com/ne9q9a>> > > > > \\Steve// > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 43099	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 9/4/2009
Subject: Re: Something's Fishy In Wellington

No. The fish farm people went and caught them from a nearby lake.. according to this paragraph. "Small plecos are common in the aquarium trade, which led to the South American natives' release, and subsequent spread, throughout most of Florida's freshwater lakes and canals, where they grow as large as 2 feet. Hoy and Spangler caught Wellington's plecos in a lake near Bartow and cleaned them of parasites before driving them to their new luxury digs." So the fish farm folks are just catching wild bigger plecos, probably giving them a Praziquantel treatment and then selling them for $15.00 each to the city. Not a bad deal for the fish farm folks. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Steve Szabo Sent: Friday, September 04, 2009 9:19 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Something's Fishy In Wellington I thought I saw they had gotten them from a Petco, but further looking, and I found this more complete article: http://www.sun-sentinel.com/news/nationworld/sfl-wellington-algae-p08170 9pnaug17,0,1723736.story http://tinyurl.com/nbqaja Which shows that they do, indeed, come from a fish farm. \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Lenny V. aka GoldLenny Sent: Friday, September 04, 2009 8:41 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Something's Fishy In Wellington I do not recall that they got the Pleco's from a big box store... although the news segment showed a trip to a retail tank display to better show people what Pleco's were. I think the town's agent was actually getting the pleco's for free from a nearby lake... at least, that's how I read the article. The bucket of Pleco's being dumped into the pool looked like several full grown specimens, not the juvis that are found in most retail outlets. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Steve Szabo Sent: Friday, September 04, 2009 7:11 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Something's Fishy In Wellington I suspect that they would need to take a trip down to South America to dispose of the fish then. Had you read the comments, the author was excoriated for that comment. One thing I wondered about is why they were getting the fish from the big box fish store. There should be some fish farms in the area that could have given them a better price for a quantity. \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of pam andress Sent: Friday, September 04, 2009 2:39 PM To: aquaticlife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Something's Fishy In Wellington What about the lake(s) they got these from. They took all of those and then they say to just put them back. How is the new owner going to know where to put them and what is this doing to the lakes? Pam To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com From: GoldLenny@... Date: Fri, 4 Sep 2009 13:36:32 -0500 Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Something's Fishy In Wellington I was more worried about the "chemicals" they had been using. Hopefully there was enough rain and evaporation to dilute the chemicals before they threw in the fish... or if they only used chlorine, that would evaporate on it's own after a few days. Fortunately, plecos are pretty tough fish and can handle some of the abuses of us fish keepers. Since even a small pool is usually at least 10,000G, with normal sized pools being in the 25,000G to 50,000G range, there is plenty of water volume to handle the bioload of 15 plecos, even without filtration/circulation. Now, if only they would throw in some floating island planters and lilies, that would help out the pool/pond's ecology and make it look pretty too. ;-) Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Amber Berglund Sent: Friday, September 04, 2009 10:03 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Something's Fishy In Wellington Umm.. what about filtration, or water changes? LOL With no water circulation that can't be a very nice home for those pleco's... I hope it rains a lot ;) Amber Steve Szabo wrote: > > > A Florida community is using plecos to help keep swimming pools in the > yards of foreclosed homes clean. > > http://www.wptv.com/content/news/centralpbc/wellington/story/catfish-w > el > <http://www.wptv.com/content/news/centralpbc/wellington/story/catfish- > wel> lington-foreclosed-homes-algae-pools/UXfdieQW1k-SkLUwaNSCBQ.cspx > http://tinyurl.com/ne9q9a <http://tinyurl.com/ne9q9a> > > \\Steve//

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 43100	From: pam andress	Date: 9/4/2009
Subject: Re: Something's Fishy In Wellington

Sounds like the fish farm people are really making out with this. I'm glad to see they are helping with the problem though. It sounded to me like they will remove the fish when the house is sold and decide if they should go to another pool or be distroyed. Since they are fish experts (I hope), I'm thinking they will check the fish over before knowing what they will do with them. This is most likely in their 700 buck fee. Thanks for finding that other article. It helped clear up some questions. Pam No. The fish farm people went and caught them from a nearby lake.. according to this paragraph. "Small plecos are common in the aquarium trade, which led to the South American natives' release, and subsequent spread, throughout most of Florida's freshwater lakes and canals, where they grow as large as 2 feet. Hoy and Spangler caught Wellington's plecos in a lake near Bartow and cleaned them of parasites before driving them to their new luxury digs." So the fish farm folks are just catching wild bigger plecos, probably giving them a Praziquantel treatment and then selling them for $15.00 each to the city. Not a bad deal for the fish farm folks. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Steve Szabo Sent: Friday, September 04, 2009 9:19 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Something's Fishy In Wellington I thought I saw they had gotten them from a Petco, but further looking, and I found this more complete article: http://www.sun-sentinel.com/news/nationworld/sfl-wellington-algae-p08170 9pnaug17,0,1723736.story http://tinyurl.com/nbqaja Which shows that they do, indeed, come from a fish farm. \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Lenny V. aka GoldLenny Sent: Friday, September 04, 2009 8:41 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Something's Fishy In Wellington I do not recall that they got the Pleco's from a big box store... although the news segment showed a trip to a retail tank display to better show people what Pleco's were. I think the town's agent was actually getting the pleco's for free from a nearby lake... at least, that's how I read the article. The bucket of Pleco's being dumped into the pool looked like several full grown specimens, not the juvis that are found in most retail outlets. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Steve Szabo Sent: Friday, September 04, 2009 7:11 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Something's Fishy In Wellington I suspect that they would need to take a trip down to South America to dispose of the fish then. Had you read the comments, the author was excoriated for that comment. One thing I wondered about is why they were getting the fish from the big box fish store. There should be some fish farms in the area that could have given them a better price for a quantity. \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of pam andress Sent: Friday, September 04, 2009 2:39 PM To: aquaticlife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Something's Fishy In Wellington What about the lake(s) they got these from. They took all of those and then they say to just put them back. How is the new owner going to know where to put them and what is this doing to the lakes? Pam To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com From: GoldLenny@... Date: Fri, 4 Sep 2009 13:36:32 -0500 Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Something's Fishy In Wellington I was more worried about the "chemicals" they had been using. Hopefully there was enough rain and evaporation to dilute the chemicals before they threw in the fish... or if they only used chlorine, that would evaporate on it's own after a few days. Fortunately, plecos are pretty tough fish and can handle some of the abuses of us fish keepers. Since even a small pool is usually at least 10,000G, with normal sized pools being in the 25,000G to 50,000G range, there is plenty of water volume to handle the bioload of 15 plecos, even without filtration/circulation. Now, if only they would throw in some floating island planters and lilies, that would help out the pool/pond's ecology and make it look pretty too. ;-) Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Amber Berglund Sent: Friday, September 04, 2009 10:03 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Something's Fishy In Wellington Umm.. what about filtration, or water changes? LOL With no water circulation that can't be a very nice home for those pleco's... I hope it rains a lot ;) Amber Steve Szabo wrote: > > > A Florida community is using plecos to help keep swimming pools in the > yards of foreclosed homes clean. > > http://www.wptv.com/content/news/centralpbc/wellington/story/catfish-w > el > <http://www.wptv.com/content/news/centralpbc/wellington/story/catfish- > wel> lington-foreclosed-homes-algae-pools/UXfdieQW1k-SkLUwaNSCBQ.cspx > http://tinyurl.com/ne9q9a <http://tinyurl.com/ne9q9a> > > \\Steve// [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 43101	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 9/5/2009
Subject: NOAA Ocean, Great Lakes and Coastal Research

Some of you may find this site interesting. For instance, there is a section on Aquatic Invasive Species which gives a definition and provides a good number of links to learn more about this topic. The same applies to a section on aquaculture. http://www.research.noaa.gov/oceans/ \\Steve//

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 43102	From: erikaandnewton	Date: 9/5/2009
Subject: planted frog tank

i know i know i keep asking almost the same question about plants and my frogs. now that im in my new house i will have a 75 gallon tank. since i dont have room for two tanks im going to use it for the frogs and guppies for now and later for my giant school of cory cats:-). any rate i want it to be fairly heavily planted and while looking through the planted tank files i've come across some info on making your own substrate. I think though that maybe with those one isnt suppoed to do water changes? so should i just stick with the flourite im using? erika, wilmington de usa

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 43103	From: kuradi8	Date: 9/5/2009
Subject: Re: betas?

Sage advice that I once read: "In order to be a keeper of fish, you must first be a keeper of water." In other words, you can't just plunk a fish into plain tap water. You have to establish its ecosystem first. Your tank (or betta bowl) must first go through a complex biological process called cycling. Google for more info. Lenny has a great tutorial about it. My advice for a betta: == Get a suitable bowl for it. 1 to 2 gallons is a nice desktop size. It should have a ventilated cover of some sort so the fish can't jump out. == Buy a (small) live aquatic plant for it. I pot mine in a small plastic party cup with some sand. == Wait at least one week before getting a betta for its new home. Because bettas are surface breathers, they do not need an air pump. If you get a small desk tank with a lamp, do not use the light because it will heat the water too much. Also, do not put the bowl/tank where it will get direct sunlight for the same reason. Two bowls side by side will keep the fish entertained. They will be aggressive for a short while but then get used to each other as neighbors. They're a lot like a couple of dogs on opposite sides of a fence. For tank maintenance, a length of air hose rubber banded to something like a chopstick makes a dandy siphon. That way you can vacuum the fish poop off bottom of the bowl without having to stick your hand in the water. Never remove more than half the water at a time. Replace that water with water that has been standing in an open jug on your counter for at least a week. Add to that jug with cold tap water because hot water heaters contain minerals (etc) that can be harmful to fish. Pick a betta that is bright and alert and responsive to your interactions. Frayed or clamped fins are a bad sign. Crowntails (the ones with fringed fins) are my favorites. :o) ~Kai --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "kl_whitney" <kl_whitney@...> wrote: > > Once again, private emails are preferred due to the fact that this is a very active group. > My suitemate is getting a beta and I agreed to watch him on the weekends. If I end up with my own fish, how do I prevent her fish from going bonkers when he's in my room for the weekends? Should I just put something opaque between the two bowls? Is it true that they get angry enough to have heart attacks when they see other fish? > I might get a beta after all. Not sure. If I can find a nice healthy one at Walmart I may go for the beta over the black moor. Will a beta feel safe in a 4 gallon bowl? I thought they were one of the few fishes that prefered small tanks cause they like to be secure. And once again, if I get a plastic plant, should it be 6", 9", or 12" for that sized bowl? I want one that's big enough to give the fish plenty of hiding space. > Oh, and what do I look for as far as signs of good health go in a beta? I know that they're pretty mellow unless they're exposed to other fish. So how do I tell if he's healthy? > -Kathy >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 43104	From: Dora Smith	Date: 9/5/2009
Subject: Re: new member intro

Jeremy, from this description, I'm afraid I'm not going to go check out hte survey. I normally enjoy surveys. Maybe I'd enjoy this one. But it sounds too philosophical; it would take too long and I'd not want to put the time into answering, for instance, my views on religion. Yours, Dora Smith Austin, TX tiggernut24@... ----- Original Message ----- From: "Jeremy Taylor" <jeremyjtaylor@...> To: "AquaticLife" <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Friday, September 04, 2009 9:05 PM Subject: [AquaticLife] new member intro Hello, I just recently joined the group, and wanted to introduce myself. My name is Jeremy, and I live in upstate New York. I have a B.S. degree in wildlife biology, and have worked as an environmental educator, wildlife biologist, and zookeeper. I am currently working in the pet products industry. I have a strong interest in nature and the environment, and am also very interested in travel, photography, history, and different cultures and religions from around the world. I have always been very interested in goldfish and koi, and because I work in the pet industry, I am always looking for new sources of information! I am also very interested in the connections between culture, religion, and nature, and in personal views of nature and the environment. For the last few years I have been conducting a short questionnaire on these topics, and as I get responses back (more than 700 to date), I am posting them on the blog I created for the project, http://earthsurvey.blogspot.com I am hoping to get as many responses as I can, from a wide cross-section of society. Eventually, I hope to turn this into a book or documentary, although I am not sure of the timeline for that as of yet. If anyone is interested in taking the questionnaire, it can be accessed online at http://tinyurl.com/nx4ng7 I am hoping that many of you will take a few moments to answer it for me! If you have any questions or comments, please feel free to contact me directly! Regards, Jeremy ______________________________________________ "We do not inherit the Earth from our Ancestors; we borrow it from our Children." ~Native American proverb Answer my Earth Survey questionnaire at http://tinyurl.com/nx4ng7 Earth Survey Project http://earthsurvey.blogspot.com Project Facebook group http://www.facebook.com/group.php?gid=34705684632 Jeremy's website http://jeremyjtaylor.tripod.com Jeremy - Facebook http://www.facebook.com/jeremyjtaylor Jeremy's Photography http://jeremyjtaylor.shutterfly.com/ ------------------------------------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the home page. Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com to receive the digest, which includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com for the No E-Mail option where you will still be able to read messages on the group and post replies. Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com to receive individual e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 43105	From: Dora Smith	Date: 9/5/2009
Subject: Re: new member intro

You think that people with pets are more aware of nature? You wish! Yours, Dora Smith Austin, TX tiggernut24@... ----- Original Message ----- From: "Jeremy Taylor" <jeremyjtaylor@...> To: "AquaticLife" <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Friday, September 04, 2009 9:05 PM Subject: [AquaticLife] new member intro Hello, I just recently joined the group, and wanted to introduce myself. My name is Jeremy, and I live in upstate New York. I have a B.S. degree in wildlife biology, and have worked as an environmental educator, wildlife biologist, and zookeeper. I am currently working in the pet products industry. I have a strong interest in nature and the environment, and am also very interested in travel, photography, history, and different cultures and religions from around the world. I have always been very interested in goldfish and koi, and because I work in the pet industry, I am always looking for new sources of information! I am also very interested in the connections between culture, religion, and nature, and in personal views of nature and the environment. For the last few years I have been conducting a short questionnaire on these topics, and as I get responses back (more than 700 to date), I am posting them on the blog I created for the project, http://earthsurvey.blogspot.com I am hoping to get as many responses as I can, from a wide cross-section of society. Eventually, I hope to turn this into a book or documentary, although I am not sure of the timeline for that as of yet. If anyone is interested in taking the questionnaire, it can be accessed online at http://tinyurl.com/nx4ng7 I am hoping that many of you will take a few moments to answer it for me! If you have any questions or comments, please feel free to contact me directly! Regards, Jeremy ______________________________________________ "We do not inherit the Earth from our Ancestors; we borrow it from our Children." ~Native American proverb Answer my Earth Survey questionnaire at http://tinyurl.com/nx4ng7 Earth Survey Project http://earthsurvey.blogspot.com Project Facebook group http://www.facebook.com/group.php?gid=34705684632 Jeremy's website http://jeremyjtaylor.tripod.com Jeremy - Facebook http://www.facebook.com/jeremyjtaylor Jeremy's Photography http://jeremyjtaylor.shutterfly.com/ ------------------------------------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the home page. Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com to receive the digest, which includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com for the No E-Mail option where you will still be able to read messages on the group and post replies. Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com to receive individual e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 43106	From: fishdudeut	Date: 9/5/2009
Subject: Re: Fishless Cycle.

When I test for Nitrites it starts out dark purple and at the end of the 5 minute wait period it goes to just slightly darker the baby blue. When I test my tap it starts at baby blue and stays there. Nitrates will not get off 10. Ammonia is being eating in 12 hours, bitrates are just about 0. I'm lost as what to do on this cycle. I was reading yesterday that some people are getting faster results using a safe start with their fishless cycle. 9/3 5:30 Ammonia 0 / Added 10 ML Ammonia 9/3 5:37 Ammonia 1.0 /Nitrite 0+ 9/3 2:30 Ammonia 0 / Added 10 ML Ammonia 9/3 2:40 Ammonia 1.0 9/3 2:45 Ammonia 1.5 9/3 3:10 Ammonia 4+ / Nitrite 0+ / Nitrate 10 9/4 5:20 Ammonia 0 / Added 10 ML Ammonia 9/4 5:30 Ammonia 1.0 9/4 5:35 Ammonia 1.5 9/4 5:50 Ammonia 4+ /Nitrite 0+/Nitrate 10 9/4 8:30 Ammonia 0 / Added 10 ML Ammonia 9/4 8:45 Ammonia 2 9/4 9:00 Ammonia 4+ / Nitrite 0+ / Nitrate 10 9/5 8:30 Ammonia 0 /Added 10 ML ammonia 9/5 8:35 Ammonia 1.0 / Nitrite 0+ /Nitrate 10 9/5 8:50 Ammonia 3 / Nitrite 0+/ Nitrate 10 9/5 9:05 Ammonia 4+ / Nitrite 0+ /Nitrate 10 --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@...> wrote: > > Are the first two "8/08" supposed to be 8/28??? Well, maybe not since the > third date range has "8/09 - 8/28". If I'm reading this correctly, you > added 30ml of Ammonia on "8/08" and even with the "Ammonia Off the chart", > you added another 30ml of Ammonia between "8/09 - 8/28"? If this is > correct, then I'm not sure what might be happening with your cycle but I > think it would not work at that high of an ammonia level. I've never tried > to use ammonia at that high of a level and have always strived to keep it > between 4-5ppm per all of the Fishless Cycling instruction sites. > > Here's one theory that is popping into my head but this would have to be > tested to verify the theory... > > With that much ammonia to start, from all I've read, the nitrifying bacteria > will have a tough time growing and I'm wondering if the ammonia wasn't > simply evaporating, rather than being converted to nitrite, then nitrate, > which would explain your low nitrate level and the lack of a nitrite spike. > Possibly, after enough ammonia evaporated, you started to get a little > cycling done which is why you never did get a BIG nitrite spike and your > nitrates continue to be relatively low. > > Then, when you followed up with another overdose of ammonia to either 30ml > or 15ml, which would raise the ammonia level to at least 7ppm (or 14ppm with > 30ml), any nitrification that might have started to happen went into a stall > again or possibly even died off some, until some of the ammonia evaporated > and then you get some nitrification happening again. > > You do not have to start over but you do need to get back on the right track > and follow the instructions for a week or so to see how things work out. > Hopefully, your Bio-Wheels have some of the three nitrifying bacteria > (nitrospira, nitrosospira and nitrosomonas) growing on them so you will at > least have a BIG jump start over starting from scratch. Just follow the > directions. Hopefully, with your 9/3 test results showing 10ppm of nitrate, > it means your tank is cycling a little... unless there is a problem with > your testing procedures since you indicate you may have erred on the nitrate > test. Double check the instructions prior to testing and during the test to > try and get accurate results. > > Now... to my suggested plan of attack at this point... > > Test your ammonia. If it's at 0.0ppm, add 10ml of ammonia (for a 55G tank). > Immediately re-test the ammonia. It should be around 5.0ppm. If it is, > also test nitrite and nitrate. Log results. After 12 hours or so, re-test > again and log results. If the ammonia is down to 0.0ppm, then the nitrites > should be showing some kind of a level. If they aren't, then something is > wrong with the testing. If the ammonia is down to 0.0ppm and there are some > nitrites present, then re-dose the tank with 10ml of ammonia and wait 12 > hours. Re-test and log results. Post all of these results as your 24 hour > regimen so we can see what is happening and advise further. > > Hopefully, if you stick to the proper dosage, you will start to see your > cycling start to rapidly gain hold, presuming some of the nitrifying > bacteria are alive and/or survived the overdosing. > > Remember, that ammonia, while it is eaten by nitrifying bacteria at low > levels, at higher levels, it's used as a disinfectant, meaning it kills > bacteria. > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right > side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) > > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On > Behalf Of fishdudeut > Sent: Thursday, September 03, 2009 5:23 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Fishless Cycle. > > Here the reading. > > 8/08 - 3:45 > Ammonia 0 - Nitrite 0 - Nitrate 0 - Ph 7.5 - GH 12 - KH 4 - Temp 76.6 > > Added 30 ML Ammonia > > 8/08 - 9:00 PM - Ammonia Off the chart > > 8/09 - 8/28 - Added 30 ML Ammonia > > 8/29 - 7:15 > Ammonia 0 - Nitrite 3 - Nitrate 5 - PH 7.5 - GH 12 - KH 4 - temp 76.5 Added > 15 ML Ammonia > 8/29 - 8:00 > Ammonia 0.5 - Nitrite 3 - Nitrate 5 - PH 7.5 - GH 12 - KH 4 - temp 76.4 > Added 15 ML Ammonia > > 8/30 - 9:15 > Ammonia 0 - Nitrite 1 - Nitrate 5/10 - PH 7.5 - GH 12 - KH 4 - temp 76.2 > Added 15 ML ammonia > > 8/30 - 8:15 > Ammonia .25 - Nitrite 1 - Nitrate 5 - PH DNT - GH DNT- KH DNT- temp 76.5 > Added 5 Ml Ammonia > > 8/31 - 5:30 > Ammonia 0 - Nitrite DNT - Nitrate DNT PH DNT - GH DNT - KH DNT - temp 76.1 > Added 10 ML Ammonia > > 8/31 - 4:20 > Ammonia 0 - Nitrite 0 - Nitrate 5/10 - PH 7.4 - GH 12 - KH 5 - temp 76..0 > > Added 10 ML Ammonia > > 9/1 - 5:30 > Ammonia 0 - Nitrite .0 - Nitrate 5/10 - PH DNT - GH DNT- KH DNT- temp 76.4 > Added 10 ML Ammonia > > 9/1 - 2:30 > Ammonia 0 - Nitrite 0 - Nitrate 5 - PH DNT - GH DNT- KH DNT - temp 76.8 > Added 10 ML Ammonia > > 9/2 - 5:25 > Ammonia .25 - Nitrite DNY - Nitrate DNT- PH DNT - GH DNT - KH DNT - temp > 76.6 Added 10 ML Ammonia > > 9/3 - 2:25 > Ammonia 0 - Nitrite 0 - Nitrate 10 - PH 7.4 - GH 13 - KH 5 - temp 76.7 > > Today I did each test 3 times to make sure I got the proper readings. The > nitrate test came out 40 for the first test and the next 2 came out 10. I'm > thinking I was think ammonia and added 8 drops of one of the solutions > instead of 10. Not sure. > > > I looked at your blog on the filters and the way my filters are set up you > cannot cut an "H" in them they are the emperor one is the 400 and the other > is the 280. Looks like I can get the carbon out just not with the "H" cut. > > Anyhow thanks for the info and any ideas? Should I cut back to 5 ML of > ammonia one time a day for a while or still do 10 one or two times a day? > I've toyed with the idea of starting over, but that would be pretty stupid. > > > > > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@> > wrote: > > > > Well, 30ml of ammonia in a 55G tank would have raised the ammonia to > > 14ppm so I'm surprised if you would ever get the ammonia eating > > bacteria growing at that level... at least from all of the fishless > > cycling threads that I've read over the years, if the ammonia even gets up > to the 6-7ppm level, it can > > cause problems. Even at 15ml in a 55G, that raises the ammonia level to > > 7ppm. There's a reason why the level we strive for is 4-5ppm IN EVERY > > FISHLESS CYCLING ARTICLE... because it has been found in countless > > fishless cycling experiments to be the optimum level. Too much lower > > and it takes a LOT longer or the tank ends up being cycled for a much > > smaller bioload. Too much higher and other problems develop... as you are > seeing. > > > > You should cut it back to 10ml at a time and then you can dose it > > every 12 hours with this level. This is all you need to do since a > > fully stocked and properly maintained aquarium only produces around > > 5ppm of ammonia each day, so building a larger nitrifying bacteria > > colony is simply not needed. They are just going to die off when you > > stock your tank, since it will not be producing enough ammonia to feed > > all of the extra bacteria colonies that you grew. > > > > Yes, overdoing it can be a bad thing. > > > > For example, when cooking, if it takes the 15 minutes at 400F to cook > > that small frozen pizza, then it must be better to raise the temp to > 1,200F... > > right? NOPE.. you end up with a SEVERELY overcooked pizza on the > > outside and maybe still mushy on the inside. Maybe that's not a good > > analogy but looking at a chemistry analogy... if drinking H2O is > > good.. then drinking > > H2O2 must be better since it has an extra Oxygen molecule.... right? > > NOPE AGAIN. H2O2 is Hydrogen Peroxide and while you might end up with > > nice white teeth, the rest of you won't fair so well. ;-) > > > > Now, back to your cycling. I need more data. When you are checking > > twice a day, what are the numbers for temperature, pH, ammonia, > > nitrite, nitrate, GH, KH? I know you said you will not be able to > > test until tomorrow, which is fine, but let us know ALL of the information > that is available. > > > > It's good that you are running JUST the Bio-Wheels. Are they spinning OK? > > They don't have to buzz like a top, just as long as they are turning > > on a regular basis. I have one that spins like crazy and another that > > just spins about one rotation a second or two but in either case, they > > work fine. Of course, I have a lot of other filter media as well. As > > far as your Marineland filter cartridges with the built-in carbon, you > > will probably want to modify them to add more filter floss and trash > > the carbon. See my blog article, "Filter Profile - Marineland > > Bio-Wheel" to see how I have cut open the black plastic screen that > > holds the carbon and then added more filter floss to add to the > > mechanical filtration. In a fully stocked tank, that thin blue filter > > floss pad that is on the Marineland filters will clog up quickly > > causing the water to overflow the filter cartridge and while that will > > still keep the tank cycled, due to the Bio-Wheels, you will not be > > getting proper mechanical filtration of any fish poop, detritus sucked up > by the filter. > > > > While at my blog, also read my article on proper "Filter Cleaning & > > Maintenance..." so you do not repeat the mistakes made by so many > > newbies when they follow the directions from the filter companies... > > who are just trying to sell filters, not necessarily do the best thing > > for your fish. Of course, that is why Dr. Tim Hovanec invented the > > Bio-Wheel, so that they could tell people to trash the filter > > cartridges every few weeks without causing harm to the fish... but > > it's simply not needed unless you like to transfer money from your > > wallet to someone else's wallet... and if you like doing that, I'll > > give you my PayPal addy and you can transfer some to me too! ;-) > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles > > referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically > > under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) > > > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] > > On Behalf Of fishdudeut > > Sent: Wednesday, September 02, 2009 10:31 PM > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Fishless Cycle. > > > > I started out added 30 ML of ammonia and after seeing the VERY high > > results I cut it down to 20 and then down to 15. Been doing 15 every > since. > > > > I have been checking twice a day and I get zero ammonia and zero > > nitrite after about 12 hours. I can't do a set of test until tomorrow. > > I added 15 today at 3:30 and will check results again tomorrow and see > > what they are at. You said added to much would cause some bacteria issue. > > > > So over doing can be a bad thing? I would think if it was eating all > > the ammonia and the nitrite were at zero I thought that would be good, > > bit that's why I'm here to figure out what's happening wrong. > > > > They only media that's in the filets are the bio wheels. I have the > > Marineland filets and they have the pre filets with the carbon in them > > and the bio wheels so nothing is there but the bio wheels. > > > > The other think I have done to the water is topped off the tank. NO > > WATER changes. As far as the KH during the cycle I have not tested for > > that. I will run the tests tomorrow and report back. > > > > I'll post in the afternoon when I get home and give a full update on > > the levels as of tomorrow and I'll test for everything. > > > > Jack > > > > > > > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" > > <GoldLenny@> > > wrote: > > > > > > The "Baseline Testing" was probably from my blog (URL in my sig). > > > Not very many sites even tell folks about finding their tap water > > > baseline. That's why I wrote that article quite a while back > > > (probably 2004) in another forum and then re-wrote it on my blog > > > when I started my blog in 2007. It's one of the most important > > > things to know when starting out so you know what kind of fish will > > > do best in your tap water so you don't have to think about using all > > > the other chemical fixes that are thrown at people for a quick fix. > > > It also lets you know if you do need some kind of supplement to > > > raise your KH level. It looks like your water stays pretty stable > > > out of the tap through the 48 hour baseline so that's good. And > > > your water parameters give you a broad spectrum of fish you can keep > > > although your water is a little on the hard side (GH = General > > > Hardness) but most fish adapt OK to that parameter, besides it > > > usually goes down in an > > established tank as all of the ecology starts to utilize many of the > > trace elements that make up the GH level. > > > > > > How much ammonia did you add to start with? 30ml is WAY too much to > > > be adding to your tank at one time. This is likely causing your > > > nitrite eating bacteria some problems. For a 55G, you should be > > > adding only 10ml per day... maybe twice a day, every 12 hours, once > > > the cycle is fully established, to keep the ammonia eating bacteria > > > at full capacity until you are ready for your fish. > > > > > > Do me a favor. Test your tank. Make sure you shake all bottles > > > more than the directions say and double check your test procedures > > > to make sure your numbers are as accurate as possible. Note all test > results. > > > Add 10ml of ammonia. Test immediately for ammonia and log results. > > > 12 hours later, test again and log results. If ammonia is down to > > > zero, add 10ml more of ammonia. 12 hours later (24 hours from > > > initial test), test again and log results. Give me those numbers. > > > Continue doing this daily regimen until we have your cycling figured > out. > > > > > > Another group member (can't recall their name right now) is having > > > similar issues with their fishless cycle. > > > > > > NO.. something is still not right with your fishless cycle. The > > > nitrates HAVE to climb as the end product of the nitrogen cycle. > > > Since yours are not climbing, something isn't right. > > > > > > Tell us more about your filtration? Exactly what kind of filter > > > media do you have in your filters? You mentioned not having the > > > carbon, which is good, but what other types of filter media do you have > in them? > > > > > > Have you done any PWC's (partial water changes) during the fishless > > > cycling process? If you haven't done any yet, GOOD! You are not > > > supposed to do them unless you have a low KH level, which you do not > > > have unless it's crashing in the fishless cycling tank. What have > > > your KH levels been during the fishless cycle? > > > > > > I'll wait for your reply before coming up with even more questions. > > > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles > > > referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, > > > alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] > > > On Behalf Of fishdudeut > > > Sent: Wednesday, September 02, 2009 5:57 PM > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > > Subject: [AquaticLife] Fishless Cycle. > > > > > > Fishless Cycle. > > > > > > Ok I have been in the process of doing a fishless cycle. I add the > > > ammonia and it goes off the chart above the highest level of the > > > test card (SUPER DARK GREEN). I let it set for a while and after > > > about 6 or 7 days I saw it start to drop. I can add 30 ML of > > > Ammonia to my 55 gallon tank and the next day (24 hours or so) it > > > will be at 0. I started testing for nitrite and it made it about to > > > 2 or 3 and now after about a week it's down to zero. My nitrate > > > have never spiked they are still between 5 and 10. saw them above 10 > > > one time but could have > > been a failed test. > > > > > > I have a tetra mast test kit. For Ammonia, Nitrite and PH as well as > > > GH and KH. I have an API test kit for Nitrates. > > > > > > I did run a base line on my tap water from a blog I found and can't > > > remember the ULR anymore. > > > > > > Straight from the tap. With API water Conditioner Ammonia 0 Nitrate > > > 0 Nitrate 0 Ph 7.5 GH 12 KH 4 > > > > > > Day 2 > > > Ammonia 0 > > > Nitrate 0 > > > Nitrate 0 > > > Ph 7.5 > > > GH 12 > > > KH 4 > > > > > > Day 3 > > > Ammonia 0 > > > Nitrate 0 - (A slightly darker shade, nit up to .025) Nitrate 0 Ph > > > 7.5 GH 12 KH 4 > > > > > > I'm concerned about the Nitrate never getting above 10. They are > > > the color between 5 and 10. I'll always read that they would be 100 > > > or something like that. > > > > > > > > > Background on the tank. > > > > > > I set it up fresh, bought the tank new and picked up a bio wheel > > > Dual filer off Crags List for $5 and had to replace the bio Wheels. > > > Added a 2nd Bio Wheel Single filter new and also did not add the > > > carbon I have read both ways and decided not to add it as of yet. > > > The gravel is new and I spend some time washing it to remove all the > > > bust and what not from it. The plants are fake. The heater is set > > > to 76 and runs between 76 and 77 depending on the time of day. > > > > > > I'm going to keep live breeders as well as some Cory cats. > > > > > > Questions. > > > > > > Everything I have read tells me when nitrite and ammonia are at O > > > and you add the ammonia to the tank to spike it and it's gone within > > > 24 hours the tank is cycled I have done this for the last 2 days and > > > both ammonia and nitrite come back as zero. I even took a water > > > sample to one of my LFS and had them test the water as well and they > > > reading also came back at 0 and the nitrate was at 5. > > > > > > So do I do the 70% water change or not worry about it since my > > > nitrates are low? I was to the understanding the reason behind this > > > was to remove the nitrates. Anyhow this is pretty long and I'm sure > > > I'll end up with more questions along that way. > > > > > > Jack. >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 43107	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 9/5/2009
Subject: Re: Fishless Cycle.

OK. If I recall correctly, you have the TetraTest-Laborette Master Test Kit for most of your tests and then the API Nitrate Test Kit for that test since Nitrate is not included in the T-L kit... right? If yes, then I'm not sure if they've changed something recently but the color card in my T-L kit, for Nitrite (NO2-) ranges from yellow to red. The card that goes from purple to blue is the high pH card. I'm not sure why the kit is reacting differently on your tank and tap water. If you do not have this TetraTest-Laborette Master test kit, let me know what the name of your kit is so I will be able to compare apples to apples. In the second paragraph below, you mention that "Ammonia is being eaten in 12 hours...", then go on to say "bitrates are just about 0", I'm guessing that was a typo for Nitrates since the b is next to the n key but did you mean Nitrites or Nitrates... as you mentioned your "Nitrates will not get off 10." at the beginning of that paragraph. Well, I think I figured it out. In your detailed chart of readings, the last listing shows Nitrites at 0 so that answers my question above. Try to double-check and/or proof-read your post before sending as typos like that could result in our giving advice that might not be the right advice, especially if you had fish and said your nitrites were 10 when you meant to say your nitrates were 10. Now... back to the chart of readings. I'm getting confused again. In your detailed listings for 9/5, you show the 8:30 test with Ammonia at 0 and added 10ml of ammonia, then your 8:35 testing shows ammonia at only 1.0 where it should be up to 4-5ppm, which is what it shows up as at 9:05. Unless you added the ammonia at one end of the tank and immediately tested at the other end of the tank, where the ammonia might not have spread out to that end, I'm not sure how your test results are not showing it after 5 minutes in the tank. I'm presuming your filters are running.. right? With two filter systems on a 55G tank, they should be mixing the water up completely within 5 minutes so the ammonia should have been thoroughly mixed after 5 minutes. I'm not sure why the proper ammonia level is not showing up in your water sampling for 30 minutes but I see the same thing happening to your testing on the preceding days as well. Are you adding the ammonia into a corner of the tank where there is limited circulation? Try adding the ammonia directly into the outflow from one of your filters so that it gets mixed up throughout the tank quicker. Also, DO NOT add that much ammonia where it would get sucked up into one of your filters intake tubes as that level of ammonia would be harmful to your nitrifying bacteria if sucked into your filter before it's diluted in the tank. This is another reason that adding it (or other additives/medications that might ever be needed) to the outflow of the filter is a good idea. If it is taking 30 minutes to mix up thoroughly, then you might as well just wait the 30 minutes after adding the ammonia before testing the tank, of just know that when you add 10ml of ammonia to your 55G tank, it WILL raise the ammonia level to 4-5ppm of ammonia. Since you show your ammonia being cycled but still not getting a nitrite reading and your nitrates are not going up, I'm really beginning to suspect something is wrong with your test kit for one or both of those two compounds.. or something. If you haven't had the kit for very long, I would bring it back to where you bought it and get a replacement. Your kit might have been exposed to excessive heat or cold during shipping/storage in a warehouse and is not giving you accurate results. The "math" simply is not adding up for your tests right now. As far as using Safe Start or a better choice, Dr. Tim's One And Only, while these products can be used with fishless cycling, they are actually a replacement to fishless cycling. If you are going to go with one of these products, you could simply plan what fish you are going to buy and make sure your store has them in stock, then add the product on one day and the next day, pick up your fish and acclimate them to your tank and add them. There is no need to do the fishless cycling... although, I guess if you wanted to be certain the products are working, you could do the ammonia test for a day or two to make sure the bacteria product that you added is indeed working. There have been reports of these products being exposed to excessive cold or heat causing them to fail as well. If you do decide on one of these products, you should do a 90% PWC to remove the water that you've been using for fishless cycling. The same holds true after doing a fishless cycle, before adding fish. Keep doing the daily or twice daily dosing of ammonia to keep the bacteria that you do have, alive, while we continue to try and figure out what is not working right here. If you cannot bring your current kit back for a replacement, do you have a friend that can come over with their test kit and test your water... just to get a second opinion on your test results? Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of fishdudeut Sent: Saturday, September 05, 2009 10:47 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Fishless Cycle. When I test for Nitrites it starts out dark purple and at the end of the 5 minute wait period it goes to just slightly darker the baby blue. When I test my tap it starts at baby blue and stays there. Nitrates will not get off 10. Ammonia is being eating in 12 hours, bitrates are just about 0. I'm lost as what to do on this cycle. I was reading yesterday that some people are getting faster results using a safe start with their fishless cycle. 9/3 5:30 Ammonia 0 / Added 10 ML Ammonia 9/3 5:37 Ammonia 1.0 /Nitrite 0+ 9/3 2:30 Ammonia 0 / Added 10 ML Ammonia 9/3 2:40 Ammonia 1.0 9/3 2:45 Ammonia 1.5 9/3 3:10 Ammonia 4+ / Nitrite 0+ / Nitrate 10 9/4 5:20 Ammonia 0 / Added 10 ML Ammonia 9/4 5:30 Ammonia 1.0 9/4 5:35 Ammonia 1.5 9/4 5:50 Ammonia 4+ /Nitrite 0+/Nitrate 10 9/4 8:30 Ammonia 0 / Added 10 ML Ammonia 9/4 8:45 Ammonia 2 9/4 9:00 Ammonia 4+ / Nitrite 0+ / Nitrate 10 9/5 8:30 Ammonia 0 /Added 10 ML ammonia 9/5 8:35 Ammonia 1.0 / Nitrite 0+ /Nitrate 10 9/5 8:50 Ammonia 3 / Nitrite 0+/ Nitrate 10 9/5 9:05 Ammonia 4+ / Nitrite 0+ /Nitrate 10 --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@...> wrote: > > Are the first two "8/08" supposed to be 8/28??? Well, maybe not since the > third date range has "8/09 - 8/28". If I'm reading this correctly, you > added 30ml of Ammonia on "8/08" and even with the "Ammonia Off the > chart", you added another 30ml of Ammonia between "8/09 - 8/28"? If > this is correct, then I'm not sure what might be happening with your > cycle but I think it would not work at that high of an ammonia level. > I've never tried to use ammonia at that high of a level and have > always strived to keep it between 4-5ppm per all of the Fishless Cycling instruction sites. > > Here's one theory that is popping into my head but this would have to > be tested to verify the theory... > > With that much ammonia to start, from all I've read, the nitrifying > bacteria will have a tough time growing and I'm wondering if the > ammonia wasn't simply evaporating, rather than being converted to > nitrite, then nitrate, which would explain your low nitrate level and the lack of a nitrite spike. > Possibly, after enough ammonia evaporated, you started to get a little > cycling done which is why you never did get a BIG nitrite spike and > your nitrates continue to be relatively low. > > Then, when you followed up with another overdose of ammonia to either > 30ml or 15ml, which would raise the ammonia level to at least 7ppm (or > 14ppm with 30ml), any nitrification that might have started to happen > went into a stall again or possibly even died off some, until some of > the ammonia evaporated and then you get some nitrification happening again. > > You do not have to start over but you do need to get back on the right > track and follow the instructions for a week or so to see how things work out. > Hopefully, your Bio-Wheels have some of the three nitrifying bacteria > (nitrospira, nitrosospira and nitrosomonas) growing on them so you > will at least have a BIG jump start over starting from scratch. Just > follow the directions. Hopefully, with your 9/3 test results showing > 10ppm of nitrate, it means your tank is cycling a little... unless > there is a problem with your testing procedures since you indicate you > may have erred on the nitrate test. Double check the instructions > prior to testing and during the test to try and get accurate results. > > Now... to my suggested plan of attack at this point... > > Test your ammonia. If it's at 0.0ppm, add 10ml of ammonia (for a 55G tank). > Immediately re-test the ammonia. It should be around 5.0ppm. If it > is, also test nitrite and nitrate. Log results. After 12 hours or > so, re-test again and log results. If the ammonia is down to 0.0ppm, > then the nitrites should be showing some kind of a level. If they > aren't, then something is wrong with the testing. If the ammonia is > down to 0.0ppm and there are some nitrites present, then re-dose the > tank with 10ml of ammonia and wait 12 hours. Re-test and log results. > Post all of these results as your 24 hour regimen so we can see what is happening and advise further. > > Hopefully, if you stick to the proper dosage, you will start to see > your cycling start to rapidly gain hold, presuming some of the > nitrifying bacteria are alive and/or survived the overdosing. > > Remember, that ammonia, while it is eaten by nitrifying bacteria at > low levels, at higher levels, it's used as a disinfectant, meaning it > kills bacteria. > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles > referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically > under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) > > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] > On Behalf Of fishdudeut > Sent: Thursday, September 03, 2009 5:23 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Fishless Cycle. > > Here the reading. > > 8/08 - 3:45 > Ammonia 0 - Nitrite 0 - Nitrate 0 - Ph 7.5 - GH 12 - KH 4 - Temp > 76.6 > > Added 30 ML Ammonia > > 8/08 - 9:00 PM - Ammonia Off the chart > > 8/09 - 8/28 - Added 30 ML Ammonia > > 8/29 - 7:15 > Ammonia 0 - Nitrite 3 - Nitrate 5 - PH 7.5 - GH 12 - KH 4 - temp 76.5 > Added > 15 ML Ammonia > 8/29 - 8:00 > Ammonia 0.5 - Nitrite 3 - Nitrate 5 - PH 7.5 - GH 12 - KH 4 - temp > 76.4 Added 15 ML Ammonia > > 8/30 - 9:15 > Ammonia 0 - Nitrite 1 - Nitrate 5/10 - PH 7.5 - GH 12 - KH 4 - temp > 76.2 Added 15 ML ammonia > > 8/30 - 8:15 > Ammonia .25 - Nitrite 1 - Nitrate 5 - PH DNT - GH DNT- KH DNT- temp > 76.5 Added 5 Ml Ammonia > > 8/31 - 5:30 > Ammonia 0 - Nitrite DNT - Nitrate DNT PH DNT - GH DNT - KH DNT - temp > 76.1 Added 10 ML Ammonia > > 8/31 - 4:20 > Ammonia 0 - Nitrite 0 - Nitrate 5/10 - PH 7.4 - GH 12 - KH 5 - temp > 76..0 > > Added 10 ML Ammonia > > 9/1 - 5:30 > Ammonia 0 - Nitrite .0 - Nitrate 5/10 - PH DNT - GH DNT- KH DNT- temp > 76.4 Added 10 ML Ammonia > > 9/1 - 2:30 > Ammonia 0 - Nitrite 0 - Nitrate 5 - PH DNT - GH DNT- KH DNT - temp > 76.8 Added 10 ML Ammonia > > 9/2 - 5:25 > Ammonia .25 - Nitrite DNY - Nitrate DNT- PH DNT - GH DNT - KH DNT - > temp > 76.6 Added 10 ML Ammonia > > 9/3 - 2:25 > Ammonia 0 - Nitrite 0 - Nitrate 10 - PH 7.4 - GH 13 - KH 5 - temp 76.7 > > Today I did each test 3 times to make sure I got the proper readings. > The nitrate test came out 40 for the first test and the next 2 came > out 10. I'm thinking I was think ammonia and added 8 drops of one of > the solutions instead of 10. Not sure. > > > I looked at your blog on the filters and the way my filters are set up > you cannot cut an "H" in them they are the emperor one is the 400 and > the other is the 280. Looks like I can get the carbon out just not with the "H" cut. > > Anyhow thanks for the info and any ideas? Should I cut back to 5 ML of > ammonia one time a day for a while or still do 10 one or two times a day? > I've toyed with the idea of starting over, but that would be pretty stupid. > > > > > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" > <GoldLenny@> > wrote: > > > > Well, 30ml of ammonia in a 55G tank would have raised the ammonia to > > 14ppm so I'm surprised if you would ever get the ammonia eating > > bacteria growing at that level... at least from all of the fishless > > cycling threads that I've read over the years, if the ammonia even > > gets up > to the 6-7ppm level, it can > > cause problems. Even at 15ml in a 55G, that raises the ammonia level to > > 7ppm. There's a reason why the level we strive for is 4-5ppm IN > > EVERY FISHLESS CYCLING ARTICLE... because it has been found in > > countless fishless cycling experiments to be the optimum level. Too > > much lower and it takes a LOT longer or the tank ends up being > > cycled for a much smaller bioload. Too much higher and other > > problems develop... as you are > seeing. > > > > You should cut it back to 10ml at a time and then you can dose it > > every 12 hours with this level. This is all you need to do since a > > fully stocked and properly maintained aquarium only produces around > > 5ppm of ammonia each day, so building a larger nitrifying bacteria > > colony is simply not needed. They are just going to die off when > > you stock your tank, since it will not be producing enough ammonia > > to feed all of the extra bacteria colonies that you grew. > > > > Yes, overdoing it can be a bad thing. > > > > For example, when cooking, if it takes the 15 minutes at 400F to > > cook that small frozen pizza, then it must be better to raise the > > temp to > 1,200F... > > right? NOPE.. you end up with a SEVERELY overcooked pizza on the > > outside and maybe still mushy on the inside. Maybe that's not a > > good analogy but looking at a chemistry analogy... if drinking H2O > > is good.. then drinking > > H2O2 must be better since it has an extra Oxygen molecule.... right? > > NOPE AGAIN. H2O2 is Hydrogen Peroxide and while you might end up > > with nice white teeth, the rest of you won't fair so well. ;-) > > > > Now, back to your cycling. I need more data. When you are checking > > twice a day, what are the numbers for temperature, pH, ammonia, > > nitrite, nitrate, GH, KH? I know you said you will not be able to > > test until tomorrow, which is fine, but let us know ALL of the > > information > that is available. > > > > It's good that you are running JUST the Bio-Wheels. Are they spinning OK? > > They don't have to buzz like a top, just as long as they are turning > > on a regular basis. I have one that spins like crazy and another > > that just spins about one rotation a second or two but in either > > case, they work fine. Of course, I have a lot of other filter media > > as well. As far as your Marineland filter cartridges with the > > built-in carbon, you will probably want to modify them to add more > > filter floss and trash the carbon. See my blog article, "Filter > > Profile - Marineland Bio-Wheel" to see how I have cut open the black > > plastic screen that holds the carbon and then added more filter > > floss to add to the mechanical filtration. In a fully stocked tank, > > that thin blue filter floss pad that is on the Marineland filters > > will clog up quickly causing the water to overflow the filter > > cartridge and while that will still keep the tank cycled, due to the > > Bio-Wheels, you will not be getting proper mechanical filtration of > > any fish poop, detritus sucked up > by the filter. > > > > While at my blog, also read my article on proper "Filter Cleaning & > > Maintenance..." so you do not repeat the mistakes made by so many > > newbies when they follow the directions from the filter companies... > > who are just trying to sell filters, not necessarily do the best > > thing for your fish. Of course, that is why Dr. Tim Hovanec > > invented the Bio-Wheel, so that they could tell people to trash the > > filter cartridges every few weeks without causing harm to the > > fish... but it's simply not needed unless you like to transfer money > > from your wallet to someone else's wallet... and if you like doing > > that, I'll give you my PayPal addy and you can transfer some to me > > too! ;-) > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles > > referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, > > alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) > > > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] > > On Behalf Of fishdudeut > > Sent: Wednesday, September 02, 2009 10:31 PM > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Fishless Cycle. > > > > I started out added 30 ML of ammonia and after seeing the VERY high > > results I cut it down to 20 and then down to 15. Been doing 15 every > since. > > > > I have been checking twice a day and I get zero ammonia and zero > > nitrite after about 12 hours. I can't do a set of test until tomorrow. > > I added 15 today at 3:30 and will check results again tomorrow and > > see what they are at. You said added to much would cause some bacteria issue. > > > > So over doing can be a bad thing? I would think if it was eating all > > the ammonia and the nitrite were at zero I thought that would be > > good, bit that's why I'm here to figure out what's happening wrong. > > > > They only media that's in the filets are the bio wheels. I have the > > Marineland filets and they have the pre filets with the carbon in > > them and the bio wheels so nothing is there but the bio wheels. > > > > The other think I have done to the water is topped off the tank. NO > > WATER changes. As far as the KH during the cycle I have not tested > > for that. I will run the tests tomorrow and report back. > > > > I'll post in the afternoon when I get home and give a full update on > > the levels as of tomorrow and I'll test for everything. > > > > Jack > > > > > > > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" > > <GoldLenny@> > > wrote: > > > > > > The "Baseline Testing" was probably from my blog (URL in my sig). > > > Not very many sites even tell folks about finding their tap water > > > baseline. That's why I wrote that article quite a while back > > > (probably 2004) in another forum and then re-wrote it on my blog > > > when I started my blog in 2007. It's one of the most important > > > things to know when starting out so you know what kind of fish > > > will do best in your tap water so you don't have to think about > > > using all the other chemical fixes that are thrown at people for a quick fix. > > > It also lets you know if you do need some kind of supplement to > > > raise your KH level. It looks like your water stays pretty stable > > > out of the tap through the 48 hour baseline so that's good. And > > > your water parameters give you a broad spectrum of fish you can > > > keep although your water is a little on the hard side (GH = > > > General > > > Hardness) but most fish adapt OK to that parameter, besides it > > > usually goes down in an > > established tank as all of the ecology starts to utilize many of the > > trace elements that make up the GH level. > > > > > > How much ammonia did you add to start with? 30ml is WAY too much > > > to be adding to your tank at one time. This is likely causing > > > your nitrite eating bacteria some problems. For a 55G, you should > > > be adding only 10ml per day... maybe twice a day, every 12 hours, > > > once the cycle is fully established, to keep the ammonia eating > > > bacteria at full capacity until you are ready for your fish. > > > > > > Do me a favor. Test your tank. Make sure you shake all bottles > > > more than the directions say and double check your test procedures > > > to make sure your numbers are as accurate as possible. Note all > > > test > results. > > > Add 10ml of ammonia. Test immediately for ammonia and log results. > > > 12 hours later, test again and log results. If ammonia is down to > > > zero, add 10ml more of ammonia. 12 hours later (24 hours from > > > initial test), test again and log results. Give me those numbers. > > > Continue doing this daily regimen until we have your cycling > > > figured > out. > > > > > > Another group member (can't recall their name right now) is having > > > similar issues with their fishless cycle. > > > > > > NO.. something is still not right with your fishless cycle. The > > > nitrates HAVE to climb as the end product of the nitrogen cycle. > > > Since yours are not climbing, something isn't right. > > > > > > Tell us more about your filtration? Exactly what kind of filter > > > media do you have in your filters? You mentioned not having the > > > carbon, which is good, but what other types of filter media do you > > > have > in them? > > > > > > Have you done any PWC's (partial water changes) during the > > > fishless cycling process? If you haven't done any yet, GOOD! You > > > are not supposed to do them unless you have a low KH level, which > > > you do not have unless it's crashing in the fishless cycling tank. > > > What have your KH levels been during the fishless cycle? > > > > > > I'll wait for your reply before coming up with even more questions. > > > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles > > > referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, > > > alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, > > > Month) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] > > > On Behalf Of fishdudeut > > > Sent: Wednesday, September 02, 2009 5:57 PM > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > > Subject: [AquaticLife] Fishless Cycle. > > > > > > Fishless Cycle. > > > > > > Ok I have been in the process of doing a fishless cycle. I add > > > the ammonia and it goes off the chart above the highest level of > > > the test card (SUPER DARK GREEN). I let it set for a while and > > > after about 6 or 7 days I saw it start to drop. I can add 30 ML > > > of Ammonia to my 55 gallon tank and the next day (24 hours or so) > > > it will be at 0. I started testing for nitrite and it made it > > > about to > > > 2 or 3 and now after about a week it's down to zero. My nitrate > > > have never spiked they are still between 5 and 10. saw them above > > > 10 one time but could have > > been a failed test. > > > > > > I have a tetra mast test kit. For Ammonia, Nitrite and PH as well > > > as GH and KH. I have an API test kit for Nitrates. > > > > > > I did run a base line on my tap water from a blog I found and > > > can't remember the ULR anymore. > > > > > > Straight from the tap. With API water Conditioner Ammonia 0 > > > Nitrate 0 Nitrate 0 Ph 7.5 GH 12 KH 4 > > > > > > Day 2 > > > Ammonia 0 > > > Nitrate 0 > > > Nitrate 0 > > > Ph 7.5 > > > GH 12 > > > KH 4 > > > > > > Day 3 > > > Ammonia 0 > > > Nitrate 0 - (A slightly darker shade, nit up to .025) Nitrate 0 Ph > > > 7.5 GH 12 KH 4 > > > > > > I'm concerned about the Nitrate never getting above 10. They are > > > the color between 5 and 10. I'll always read that they would be > > > 100 or something like that. > > > > > > > > > Background on the tank. > > > > > > I set it up fresh, bought the tank new and picked up a bio wheel > > > Dual filer off Crags List for $5 and had to replace the bio Wheels. > > > Added a 2nd Bio Wheel Single filter new and also did not add the > > > carbon I have read both ways and decided not to add it as of yet. > > > The gravel is new and I spend some time washing it to remove all > > > the bust and what not from it. The plants are fake. The heater is > > > set to 76 and runs between 76 and 77 depending on the time of day. > > > > > > I'm going to keep live breeders as well as some Cory cats. > > > > > > Questions. > > > > > > Everything I have read tells me when nitrite and ammonia are at O > > > and you add the ammonia to the tank to spike it and it's gone > > > within > > > 24 hours the tank is cycled I have done this for the last 2 days > > > and both ammonia and nitrite come back as zero. I even took a > > > water sample to one of my LFS and had them test the water as well > > > and they reading also came back at 0 and the nitrate was at 5. > > > > > > So do I do the 70% water change or not worry about it since my > > > nitrates are low? I was to the understanding the reason behind > > > this was to remove the nitrates. Anyhow this is pretty long and > > > I'm sure I'll end up with more questions along that way. > > > > > > Jack. > ------------------------------------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the home page. Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com to receive the digest, which includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com for the No E-Mail option where you will still be able to read messages on the group and post replies. Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com to receive individual e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 43108	From: kuradi8	Date: 9/5/2009
Subject: Re: betas?

Second reply: Black moors. Oh, I love them too. Because moors (all goldfish) are champion poopers, they need larger tanks. Figure about 5 gallons per fish. Yes, you'll have to cycle their water first too. The larger the tank, the longer it'll take. They do not need a tank heater (room temperature is good enough) but they do require an air pump and/or waterfall (aerating) filter. They are not surface breathers and will suffocate in "just a bowl." They also need frequent tank maintenance to keep their water clean. They think most live plants are delicious so you're best off with silk or plastic ones. ~Kai --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "kl_whitney" <kl_whitney@...> wrote: > > Once again, private emails are preferred due to the fact that this is a very active group. > My suitemate is getting a beta and I agreed to watch him on the weekends. If I end up with my own fish, how do I prevent her fish from going bonkers when he's in my room for the weekends? Should I just put something opaque between the two bowls? Is it true that they get angry enough to have heart attacks when they see other fish? > I might get a beta after all. Not sure. If I can find a nice healthy one at Walmart I may go for the beta over the black moor. Will a beta feel safe in a 4 gallon bowl? I thought they were one of the few fishes that prefered small tanks cause they like to be secure. And once again, if I get a plastic plant, should it be 6", 9", or 12" for that sized bowl? I want one that's big enough to give the fish plenty of hiding space. > Oh, and what do I look for as far as signs of good health go in a beta? I know that they're pretty mellow unless they're exposed to other fish. So how do I tell if he's healthy? > -Kathy >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 43109	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 9/5/2009
Subject: Re: betas?

They need more than 5 gallons per gold fish. Amber kuradi8 wrote: > > > Second reply: > > Black moors. Oh, I love them too. Because moors (all goldfish) are > champion poopers, they need larger tanks. Figure about 5 gallons per > fish. Yes, you'll have to cycle their water first too. The larger the > tank, the longer it'll take. They do not need a tank heater (room > temperature is good enough) but they do require an air pump and/or > waterfall (aerating) filter. They are not surface breathers and will > suffocate in "just a bowl." They also need frequent tank maintenance > to keep their water clean. They think most live plants are delicious > so you're best off with silk or plastic ones. > ~Kai > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>, "kl_whitney" <kl_whitney@...> > wrote: > > > > Once again, private emails are preferred due to the fact that this > is a very active group. > > My suitemate is getting a beta and I agreed to watch him on the > weekends. If I end up with my own fish, how do I prevent her fish from > going bonkers when he's in my room for the weekends? Should I just put > something opaque between the two bowls? Is it true that they get angry > enough to have heart attacks when they see other fish? > > I might get a beta after all. Not sure. If I can find a nice healthy > one at Walmart I may go for the beta over the black moor. Will a beta > feel safe in a 4 gallon bowl? I thought they were one of the few > fishes that prefered small tanks cause they like to be secure. And > once again, if I get a plastic plant, should it be 6", 9", or 12" for > that sized bowl? I want one that's big enough to give the fish plenty > of hiding space. > > Oh, and what do I look for as far as signs of good health go in a > beta? I know that they're pretty mellow unless they're exposed to > other fish. So how do I tell if he's healthy? > > -Kathy > > > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 43110	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 9/5/2009
Subject: Re: betas?

Kai, While 5G might work for a baby 1" goldfish for a short period of time (a month or two), it's not nearly enough for long term housing of a goldfish. Even the smallest fancy goldfish grow to 6" to 8" long and are big around so they still have a similar body mass compared to a 12"+ long bodied goldfish. Goldfish grow rapidly in their first year and should reach full adult size in 1-3 years so trying to keep them in an undersized tank while they are small usually results in long term stunting and its related health problems. The math actually proves that an adult 8" fancy goldfish is equal in body mass to over 500 1" goldfish. A younger 4" fancy goldfish is equal to 64 1" goldfish. See my goldfish care sheet on my blog for more and better info on long term care for goldfish. The smallest tank one should have for fancy goldfish is 55G tank for two fancies. A 30G long tank could also work for a single fancy goldfish but with either of these setups, weekly tank maintenance is needed to keep the water in decent shape. There are live plants that do work with goldfish. I have them outlined on my "Planted Tank..." blog article. I have live plants in my 65G goldfish tank (2 fancies and a 2.5" clown pleco) and as long as they are fed enough, they'll leave the plants alone. What happens is that so many folks keep goldfish in undersized tanks so they do not feed them enough to try and keep the water from getting fouled... so the goldfish simply eat the plants. If kept in the right sized tank, they can be fed properly and then they leave the plants alone, for the most part. They'll still nibble at the Anacharis but they don't gulp it down wholesale like they would if underfed. They do gulp down the duckweed but I grow plenty of that in my Cherry Shrimp tank mainly for the goldfish to snack on. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of kuradi8 Sent: Saturday, September 05, 2009 11:49 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: betas? Second reply: Black moors. Oh, I love them too. Because moors (all goldfish) are champion poopers, they need larger tanks. Figure about 5 gallons per fish. Yes, you'll have to cycle their water first too. The larger the tank, the longer it'll take. They do not need a tank heater (room temperature is good enough) but they do require an air pump and/or waterfall (aerating) filter. They are not surface breathers and will suffocate in "just a bowl." They also need frequent tank maintenance to keep their water clean. They think most live plants are delicious so you're best off with silk or plastic ones. ~Kai --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "kl_whitney" <kl_whitney@...> wrote: > > Once again, private emails are preferred due to the fact that this is a very active group. > My suitemate is getting a beta and I agreed to watch him on the weekends. If I end up with my own fish, how do I prevent her fish from going bonkers when he's in my room for the weekends? Should I just put something opaque between the two bowls? Is it true that they get angry enough to have heart attacks when they see other fish? > I might get a beta after all. Not sure. If I can find a nice healthy one at Walmart I may go for the beta over the black moor. Will a beta feel safe in a 4 gallon bowl? I thought they were one of the few fishes that prefered small tanks cause they like to be secure. And once again, if I get a plastic plant, should it be 6", 9", or 12" for that sized bowl? I want one that's big enough to give the fish plenty of hiding space. > Oh, and what do I look for as far as signs of good health go in a beta? I know that they're pretty mellow unless they're exposed to other fish. So how do I tell if he's healthy? > -Kathy >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 43111	From: harry perry	Date: 9/5/2009
Subject: Re: Fishless Cycle./fishdudeut/Why?.

I have been following your posts and I have to ask why would anyone put themselves thru all this?. All you need is Dr. Tims one and only to cycle your tank. I am not an affiliate. I have used this product many times. It works great. You simple add it to your tank and the next day test your water and add the fish. http://tinyurl.com/ny7ke6 That's all you have to do. Harry --- On Sat, 9/5/09, fishdudeut <jacknobel@...> wrote: From: fishdudeut <jacknobel@...> Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Fishless Cycle. To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Date: Saturday, September 5, 2009, 11:47 AM   When I test for Nitrites it starts out dark purple and at the end of the 5 minute wait period it goes to just slightly darker the baby blue. When I test my tap it starts at baby blue and stays there. Nitrates will not get off 10. Ammonia is being eating in 12 hours, bitrates are just about 0. I'm lost as what to do on this cycle. I was reading yesterday that some people are getting faster results using a safe start with their fishless cycle. 9/3 5:30 Ammonia 0 / Added 10 ML Ammonia 9/3 5:37 Ammonia 1.0 /Nitrite 0+ 9/3 2:30 Ammonia 0 / Added 10 ML Ammonia 9/3 2:40 Ammonia 1.0 9/3 2:45 Ammonia 1.5 9/3 3:10 Ammonia 4+ / Nitrite 0+ / Nitrate 10 9/4 5:20 Ammonia 0 / Added 10 ML Ammonia 9/4 5:30 Ammonia 1.0 9/4 5:35 Ammonia 1.5 9/4 5:50 Ammonia 4+ /Nitrite 0+/Nitrate 10 9/4 8:30 Ammonia 0 / Added 10 ML Ammonia 9/4 8:45 Ammonia 2 9/4 9:00 Ammonia 4+ / Nitrite 0+ / Nitrate 10 9/5 8:30 Ammonia 0 /Added 10 ML ammonia 9/5 8:35 Ammonia 1.0 / Nitrite 0+ /Nitrate 10 9/5 8:50 Ammonia 3 / Nitrite 0+/ Nitrate 10 9/5 9:05 Ammonia 4+ / Nitrite 0+ /Nitrate 10 --- In AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com, "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@. ..> wrote: > > Are the first two "8/08" supposed to be 8/28??? Well, maybe not since the > third date range has "8/09 - 8/28". If I'm reading this correctly, you > added 30ml of Ammonia on "8/08" and even with the "Ammonia Off the chart", > you added another 30ml of Ammonia between "8/09 - 8/28"? If this is > correct, then I'm not sure what might be happening with your cycle but I > think it would not work at that high of an ammonia level. I've never tried > to use ammonia at that high of a level and have always strived to keep it > between 4-5ppm per all of the Fishless Cycling instruction sites. > > Here's one theory that is popping into my head but this would have to be > tested to verify the theory... > > With that much ammonia to start, from all I've read, the nitrifying bacteria > will have a tough time growing and I'm wondering if the ammonia wasn't > simply evaporating, rather than being converted to nitrite, then nitrate, > which would explain your low nitrate level and the lack of a nitrite spike. > Possibly, after enough ammonia evaporated, you started to get a little > cycling done which is why you never did get a BIG nitrite spike and your > nitrates continue to be relatively low. > > Then, when you followed up with another overdose of ammonia to either 30ml > or 15ml, which would raise the ammonia level to at least 7ppm (or 14ppm with > 30ml), any nitrification that might have started to happen went into a stall > again or possibly even died off some, until some of the ammonia evaporated > and then you get some nitrification happening again. > > You do not have to start over but you do need to get back on the right track > and follow the instructions for a week or so to see how things work out. > Hopefully, your Bio-Wheels have some of the three nitrifying bacteria > (nitrospira, nitrosospira and nitrosomonas) growing on them so you will at > least have a BIG jump start over starting from scratch. Just follow the > directions. Hopefully, with your 9/3 test results showing 10ppm of nitrate, > it means your tank is cycling a little... unless there is a problem with > your testing procedures since you indicate you may have erred on the nitrate > test. Double check the instructions prior to testing and during the test to > try and get accurate results. > > Now... to my suggested plan of attack at this point... > > Test your ammonia. If it's at 0.0ppm, add 10ml of ammonia (for a 55G tank). > Immediately re-test the ammonia. It should be around 5.0ppm. If it is, > also test nitrite and nitrate. Log results. After 12 hours or so, re-test > again and log results. If the ammonia is down to 0.0ppm, then the nitrites > should be showing some kind of a level. If they aren't, then something is > wrong with the testing. If the ammonia is down to 0.0ppm and there are some > nitrites present, then re-dose the tank with 10ml of ammonia and wait 12 > hours. Re-test and log results. Post all of these results as your 24 hour > regimen so we can see what is happening and advise further. > > Hopefully, if you stick to the proper dosage, you will start to see your > cycling start to rapidly gain hold, presuming some of the nitrifying > bacteria are alive and/or survived the overdosing. > > Remember, that ammonia, while it is eaten by nitrifying bacteria at low > levels, at higher levels, it's used as a disinfectant, meaning it kills > bacteria. > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com > (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right > side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) > > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com [mailto:AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com] On > Behalf Of fishdudeut > Sent: Thursday, September 03, 2009 5:23 PM > To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Fishless Cycle. > > Here the reading. > > 8/08 - 3:45 > Ammonia 0 - Nitrite 0 - Nitrate 0 - Ph 7.5 - GH 12 - KH 4 - Temp 76.6 > > Added 30 ML Ammonia > > 8/08 - 9:00 PM - Ammonia Off the chart > > 8/09 - 8/28 - Added 30 ML Ammonia > > 8/29 - 7:15 > Ammonia 0 - Nitrite 3 - Nitrate 5 - PH 7.5 - GH 12 - KH 4 - temp 76.5 Added > 15 ML Ammonia > 8/29 - 8:00 > Ammonia 0.5 - Nitrite 3 - Nitrate 5 - PH 7.5 - GH 12 - KH 4 - temp 76.4 > Added 15 ML Ammonia > > 8/30 - 9:15 > Ammonia 0 - Nitrite 1 - Nitrate 5/10 - PH 7.5 - GH 12 - KH 4 - temp 76.2 > Added 15 ML ammonia > > 8/30 - 8:15 > Ammonia .25 - Nitrite 1 - Nitrate 5 - PH DNT - GH DNT- KH DNT- temp 76.5 > Added 5 Ml Ammonia > > 8/31 - 5:30 > Ammonia 0 - Nitrite DNT - Nitrate DNT PH DNT - GH DNT - KH DNT - temp 76.1 > Added 10 ML Ammonia > > 8/31 - 4:20 > Ammonia 0 - Nitrite 0 - Nitrate 5/10 - PH 7.4 - GH 12 - KH 5 - temp 76..0 > > Added 10 ML Ammonia > > 9/1 - 5:30 > Ammonia 0 - Nitrite .0 - Nitrate 5/10 - PH DNT - GH DNT- KH DNT- temp 76.4 > Added 10 ML Ammonia > > 9/1 - 2:30 > Ammonia 0 - Nitrite 0 - Nitrate 5 - PH DNT - GH DNT- KH DNT - temp 76.8 > Added 10 ML Ammonia > > 9/2 - 5:25 > Ammonia .25 - Nitrite DNY - Nitrate DNT- PH DNT - GH DNT - KH DNT - temp > 76.6 Added 10 ML Ammonia > > 9/3 - 2:25 > Ammonia 0 - Nitrite 0 - Nitrate 10 - PH 7.4 - GH 13 - KH 5 - temp 76.7 > > Today I did each test 3 times to make sure I got the proper readings. The > nitrate test came out 40 for the first test and the next 2 came out 10. I'm > thinking I was think ammonia and added 8 drops of one of the solutions > instead of 10. Not sure. > > > I looked at your blog on the filters and the way my filters are set up you > cannot cut an "H" in them they are the emperor one is the 400 and the other > is the 280. Looks like I can get the carbon out just not with the "H" cut. > > Anyhow thanks for the info and any ideas? Should I cut back to 5 ML of > ammonia one time a day for a while or still do 10 one or two times a day? > I've toyed with the idea of starting over, but that would be pretty stupid. > > > > > > > > --- In AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com, "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@> > wrote: > > > > Well, 30ml of ammonia in a 55G tank would have raised the ammonia to > > 14ppm so I'm surprised if you would ever get the ammonia eating > > bacteria growing at that level... at least from all of the fishless > > cycling threads that I've read over the years, if the ammonia even gets up > to the 6-7ppm level, it can > > cause problems. Even at 15ml in a 55G, that raises the ammonia level to > > 7ppm. There's a reason why the level we strive for is 4-5ppm IN EVERY > > FISHLESS CYCLING ARTICLE... because it has been found in countless > > fishless cycling experiments to be the optimum level. Too much lower > > and it takes a LOT longer or the tank ends up being cycled for a much > > smaller bioload. Too much higher and other problems develop... as you are > seeing. > > > > You should cut it back to 10ml at a time and then you can dose it > > every 12 hours with this level. This is all you need to do since a > > fully stocked and properly maintained aquarium only produces around > > 5ppm of ammonia each day, so building a larger nitrifying bacteria > > colony is simply not needed. They are just going to die off when you > > stock your tank, since it will not be producing enough ammonia to feed > > all of the extra bacteria colonies that you grew. > > > > Yes, overdoing it can be a bad thing. > > > > For example, when cooking, if it takes the 15 minutes at 400F to cook > > that small frozen pizza, then it must be better to raise the temp to > 1,200F... > > right? NOPE.. you end up with a SEVERELY overcooked pizza on the > > outside and maybe still mushy on the inside. Maybe that's not a good > > analogy but looking at a chemistry analogy... if drinking H2O is > > good.. then drinking > > H2O2 must be better since it has an extra Oxygen molecule.... right? > > NOPE AGAIN. H2O2 is Hydrogen Peroxide and while you might end up with > > nice white teeth, the rest of you won't fair so well. ;-) > > > > Now, back to your cycling. I need more data. When you are checking > > twice a day, what are the numbers for temperature, pH, ammonia, > > nitrite, nitrate, GH, KH? I know you said you will not be able to > > test until tomorrow, which is fine, but let us know ALL of the information > that is available. > > > > It's good that you are running JUST the Bio-Wheels. Are they spinning OK? > > They don't have to buzz like a top, just as long as they are turning > > on a regular basis. I have one that spins like crazy and another that > > just spins about one rotation a second or two but in either case, they > > work fine. Of course, I have a lot of other filter media as well. As > > far as your Marineland filter cartridges with the built-in carbon, you > > will probably want to modify them to add more filter floss and trash > > the carbon. See my blog article, "Filter Profile - Marineland > > Bio-Wheel" to see how I have cut open the black plastic screen that > > holds the carbon and then added more filter floss to add to the > > mechanical filtration. In a fully stocked tank, that thin blue filter > > floss pad that is on the Marineland filters will clog up quickly > > causing the water to overflow the filter cartridge and while that will > > still keep the tank cycled, due to the Bio-Wheels, you will not be > > getting proper mechanical filtration of any fish poop, detritus sucked up > by the filter. > > > > While at my blog, also read my article on proper "Filter Cleaning & > > Maintenance. .." so you do not repeat the mistakes made by so many > > newbies when they follow the directions from the filter companies... > > who are just trying to sell filters, not necessarily do the best thing > > for your fish. Of course, that is why Dr. Tim Hovanec invented the > > Bio-Wheel, so that they could tell people to trash the filter > > cartridges every few weeks without causing harm to the fish... but > > it's simply not needed unless you like to transfer money from your > > wallet to someone else's wallet... and if you like doing that, I'll > > give you my PayPal addy and you can transfer some to me too! ;-) > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com (Links to any articles > > referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically > > under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) > > > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com [mailto:AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com] > > On Behalf Of fishdudeut > > Sent: Wednesday, September 02, 2009 10:31 PM > > To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com > > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Fishless Cycle. > > > > I started out added 30 ML of ammonia and after seeing the VERY high > > results I cut it down to 20 and then down to 15. Been doing 15 every > since. > > > > I have been checking twice a day and I get zero ammonia and zero > > nitrite after about 12 hours. I can't do a set of test until tomorrow. > > I added 15 today at 3:30 and will check results again tomorrow and see > > what they are at. You said added to much would cause some bacteria issue. > > > > So over doing can be a bad thing? I would think if it was eating all > > the ammonia and the nitrite were at zero I thought that would be good, > > bit that's why I'm here to figure out what's happening wrong. > > > > They only media that's in the filets are the bio wheels. I have the > > Marineland filets and they have the pre filets with the carbon in them > > and the bio wheels so nothing is there but the bio wheels. > > > > The other think I have done to the water is topped off the tank. NO > > WATER changes. As far as the KH during the cycle I have not tested for > > that. I will run the tests tomorrow and report back. > > > > I'll post in the afternoon when I get home and give a full update on > > the levels as of tomorrow and I'll test for everything. > > > > Jack > > > > > > > > > > --- In AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com, "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" > > <GoldLenny@> > > wrote: > > > > > > The "Baseline Testing" was probably from my blog (URL in my sig). > > > Not very many sites even tell folks about finding their tap water > > > baseline. That's why I wrote that article quite a while back > > > (probably 2004) in another forum and then re-wrote it on my blog > > > when I started my blog in 2007. It's one of the most important > > > things to know when starting out so you know what kind of fish will > > > do best in your tap water so you don't have to think about using all > > > the other chemical fixes that are thrown at people for a quick fix. > > > It also lets you know if you do need some kind of supplement to > > > raise your KH level. It looks like your water stays pretty stable > > > out of the tap through the 48 hour baseline so that's good. And > > > your water parameters give you a broad spectrum of fish you can keep > > > although your water is a little on the hard side (GH = General > > > Hardness) but most fish adapt OK to that parameter, besides it > > > usually goes down in an > > established tank as all of the ecology starts to utilize many of the > > trace elements that make up the GH level. > > > > > > How much ammonia did you add to start with? 30ml is WAY too much to > > > be adding to your tank at one time. This is likely causing your > > > nitrite eating bacteria some problems. For a 55G, you should be > > > adding only 10ml per day... maybe twice a day, every 12 hours, once > > > the cycle is fully established, to keep the ammonia eating bacteria > > > at full capacity until you are ready for your fish. > > > > > > Do me a favor. Test your tank. Make sure you shake all bottles > > > more than the directions say and double check your test procedures > > > to make sure your numbers are as accurate as possible. Note all test > results. > > > Add 10ml of ammonia. Test immediately for ammonia and log results. > > > 12 hours later, test again and log results. If ammonia is down to > > > zero, add 10ml more of ammonia. 12 hours later (24 hours from > > > initial test), test again and log results. Give me those numbers. > > > Continue doing this daily regimen until we have your cycling figured > out. > > > > > > Another group member (can't recall their name right now) is having > > > similar issues with their fishless cycle. > > > > > > NO.. something is still not right with your fishless cycle. The > > > nitrates HAVE to climb as the end product of the nitrogen cycle. > > > Since yours are not climbing, something isn't right. > > > > > > Tell us more about your filtration? Exactly what kind of filter > > > media do you have in your filters? You mentioned not having the > > > carbon, which is good, but what other types of filter media do you have > in them? > > > > > > Have you done any PWC's (partial water changes) during the fishless > > > cycling process? If you haven't done any yet, GOOD! You are not > > > supposed to do them unless you have a low KH level, which you do not > > > have unless it's crashing in the fishless cycling tank. What have > > > your KH levels been during the fishless cycle? > > > > > > I'll wait for your reply before coming up with even more questions. > > > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com (Links to any articles > > > referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, > > > alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > From: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com > > > [mailto:AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com] > > > On Behalf Of fishdudeut > > > Sent: Wednesday, September 02, 2009 5:57 PM > > > To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com > > > Subject: [AquaticLife] Fishless Cycle. > > > > > > Fishless Cycle. > > > > > > Ok I have been in the process of doing a fishless cycle. I add the > > > ammonia and it goes off the chart above the highest level of the > > > test card (SUPER DARK GREEN). I let it set for a while and after > > > about 6 or 7 days I saw it start to drop. I can add 30 ML of > > > Ammonia to my 55 gallon tank and the next day (24 hours or so) it > > > will be at 0. I started testing for nitrite and it made it about to > > > 2 or 3 and now after about a week it's down to zero. My nitrate > > > have never spiked they are still between 5 and 10. saw them above 10 > > > one time but could have > > been a failed test. > > > > > > I have a tetra mast test kit. For Ammonia, Nitrite and PH as well as > > > GH and KH. I have an API test kit for Nitrates. > > > > > > I did run a base line on my tap water from a blog I found and can't > > > remember the ULR anymore. > > > > > > Straight from the tap. With API water Conditioner Ammonia 0 Nitrate > > > 0 Nitrate 0 Ph 7.5 GH 12 KH 4 > > > > > > Day 2 > > > Ammonia 0 > > > Nitrate 0 > > > Nitrate 0 > > > Ph 7.5 > > > GH 12 > > > KH 4 > > > > > > Day 3 > > > Ammonia 0 > > > Nitrate 0 - (A slightly darker shade, nit up to .025) Nitrate 0 Ph > > > 7.5 GH 12 KH 4 > > > > > > I'm concerned about the Nitrate never getting above 10. They are > > > the color between 5 and 10. I'll always read that they would be 100 > > > or something like that. > > > > > > > > > Background on the tank. > > > > > > I set it up fresh, bought the tank new and picked up a bio wheel > > > Dual filer off Crags List for $5 and had to replace the bio Wheels. > > > Added a 2nd Bio Wheel Single filter new and also did not add the > > > carbon I have read both ways and decided not to add it as of yet. > > > The gravel is new and I spend some time washing it to remove all the > > > bust and what not from it. The plants are fake. The heater is set > > > to 76 and runs between 76 and 77 depending on the time of day. > > > > > > I'm going to keep live breeders as well as some Cory cats. > > > > > > Questions. > > > > > > Everything I have read tells me when nitrite and ammonia are at O > > > and you add the ammonia to the tank to spike it and it's gone within > > > 24 hours the tank is cycled I have done this for the last 2 days and > > > both ammonia and nitrite come back as zero. I even took a water > > > sample to one of my LFS and had them test the water as well and they > > > reading also came back at 0 and the nitrate was at 5. > > > > > > So do I do the 70% water change or not worry about it since my > > > nitrates are low? I was to the understanding the reason behind this > > > was to remove the nitrates. Anyhow this is pretty long and I'm sure > > > I'll end up with more questions along that way. > > > > > > Jack. > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 43112	From: Dora Smith	Date: 9/5/2009
Subject: Nataniel the Fish is sick

I think he OD'd on HBH betta colorbright flakes, but I can't be sure. I first noticed yesterday that he spat out some of what he ate. Nataniel usually scarfs down everything. I changed his water, bringing it up to outside water temperature first because that's where the new water was, and used identical water, and suddenly he was at death's door. Lying around on the bottom of his tank, leaning over, breathing heavily. No interest in food or much of anything else. I managed to get half a brine shrimp into him - that stayed down. This morning his color is better and he's swimming around. I added 3/4 tsp of epsom salts to his gallon and a half of water, and he's had another half brine shrimp and some little bits of green pea. I also added some Maracyn and Marcyn 2 to his water. Anyone have any other suggestions? Yours, Dora Smith Austin, TX tiggernut24@...

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 43113	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 9/5/2009
Subject: Re: Fishless Cycle./fishdudeut/Why?.

While I'm a big proponent of Dr. Tim's One And Only, fishless cycling is still done since Dr. Tim's product isn't cheap. A 4 oz. bottle (the amount needed for a 55G tank) is $19.99 (even on sale at DFS) and add another $10.00 for standard shipping/handling, $20.00 for 2-day shipping, so the final price for a 4 oz. bottle could be $30.00 to $40.00. Some folks might opt for the 99 cents bottle of ammonia and learning all about the nitrogen cycle while doing the Fishless Cycle. Of if you want to save the 99 cents, drinking lots of water and standing on a chair next to the tank will also work. ;-) There have been reported incidents of Dr. Tim's and Tetra's products not working due to having been exposed to excessive heat or freezing temps during shipping/warehousing, so many folks are hesitant to "trust" that the product worked so they still do a mini-Fishless Cycle after adding it to make sure it worked. It also gives them a chance to make sure their test kit is working properly... which if this happens to be Jack's problem, it's better to find out that the test kit is faulty during a fishless cycle than to get bad test results once fish are in the tank. That's one of the "Top 10 reasons...", to test out all your equipment and make sure everything is working properly. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of harry perry Sent: Saturday, September 05, 2009 2:56 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: Fishless Cycle./fishdudeut/Why?. I have been following your posts and I have to ask why would anyone put themselves thru all this?. All you need is Dr. Tims one and only to cycle your tank. I am not an affiliate. I have used this product many times. It works great. You simple add it to your tank and the next day test your water and add the fish. http://tinyurl.com/ny7ke6 That's all you have to do. Harry --- On Sat, 9/5/09, fishdudeut <jacknobel@...> wrote: From: fishdudeut <jacknobel@...> Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Fishless Cycle. To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Date: Saturday, September 5, 2009, 11:47 AM   When I test for Nitrites it starts out dark purple and at the end of the 5 minute wait period it goes to just slightly darker the baby blue. When I test my tap it starts at baby blue and stays there. Nitrates will not get off 10. Ammonia is being eating in 12 hours, bitrates are just about 0. I'm lost as what to do on this cycle. I was reading yesterday that some people are getting faster results using a safe start with their fishless cycle. 9/3 5:30 Ammonia 0 / Added 10 ML Ammonia 9/3 5:37 Ammonia 1.0 /Nitrite 0+ 9/3 2:30 Ammonia 0 / Added 10 ML Ammonia 9/3 2:40 Ammonia 1.0 9/3 2:45 Ammonia 1.5 9/3 3:10 Ammonia 4+ / Nitrite 0+ / Nitrate 10 9/4 5:20 Ammonia 0 / Added 10 ML Ammonia 9/4 5:30 Ammonia 1.0 9/4 5:35 Ammonia 1.5 9/4 5:50 Ammonia 4+ /Nitrite 0+/Nitrate 10 9/4 8:30 Ammonia 0 / Added 10 ML Ammonia 9/4 8:45 Ammonia 2 9/4 9:00 Ammonia 4+ / Nitrite 0+ / Nitrate 10 9/5 8:30 Ammonia 0 /Added 10 ML ammonia 9/5 8:35 Ammonia 1.0 / Nitrite 0+ /Nitrate 10 9/5 8:50 Ammonia 3 / Nitrite 0+/ Nitrate 10 9/5 9:05 Ammonia 4+ / Nitrite 0+ /Nitrate 10 --- In AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com, "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@. ..> wrote: > > Are the first two "8/08" supposed to be 8/28??? Well, maybe not since > the > third date range has "8/09 - 8/28". If I'm reading this correctly, you > added 30ml of Ammonia on "8/08" and even with the "Ammonia Off the > chart", > you added another 30ml of Ammonia between "8/09 - 8/28"? If this is > correct, then I'm not sure what might be happening with your cycle but > I > think it would not work at that high of an ammonia level. I've never > tried > to use ammonia at that high of a level and have always strived to keep > it > between 4-5ppm per all of the Fishless Cycling instruction sites. > > Here's one theory that is popping into my head but this would have to > be > tested to verify the theory... > > With that much ammonia to start, from all I've read, the nitrifying > bacteria > will have a tough time growing and I'm wondering if the ammonia wasn't > simply evaporating, rather than being converted to nitrite, then > nitrate, > which would explain your low nitrate level and the lack of a nitrite spike. > Possibly, after enough ammonia evaporated, you started to get a little > cycling done which is why you never did get a BIG nitrite spike and > your > nitrates continue to be relatively low. > > Then, when you followed up with another overdose of ammonia to either > 30ml > or 15ml, which would raise the ammonia level to at least 7ppm (or > 14ppm with > 30ml), any nitrification that might have started to happen went into a > stall > again or possibly even died off some, until some of the ammonia > evaporated > and then you get some nitrification happening again. > > You do not have to start over but you do need to get back on the right > track > and follow the instructions for a week or so to see how things work out. > Hopefully, your Bio-Wheels have some of the three nitrifying bacteria > (nitrospira, nitrosospira and nitrosomonas) growing on them so you > will at > least have a BIG jump start over starting from scratch. Just follow > the > directions. Hopefully, with your 9/3 test results showing 10ppm of > nitrate, > it means your tank is cycling a little... unless there is a problem > with > your testing procedures since you indicate you may have erred on the > nitrate > test. Double check the instructions prior to testing and during the > test to > try and get accurate results. > > Now... to my suggested plan of attack at this point... > > Test your ammonia. If it's at 0.0ppm, add 10ml of ammonia (for a 55G tank). > Immediately re-test the ammonia. It should be around 5.0ppm. If it > is, > also test nitrite and nitrate. Log results. After 12 hours or so, > re-test > again and log results. If the ammonia is down to 0.0ppm, then the > nitrites > should be showing some kind of a level. If they aren't, then > something is > wrong with the testing. If the ammonia is down to 0.0ppm and there > are some > nitrites present, then re-dose the tank with 10ml of ammonia and wait > 12 > hours. Re-test and log results. Post all of these results as your 24 > hour > regimen so we can see what is happening and advise further. > > Hopefully, if you stick to the proper dosage, you will start to see > your > cycling start to rapidly gain hold, presuming some of the nitrifying > bacteria are alive and/or survived the overdosing. > > Remember, that ammonia, while it is eaten by nitrifying bacteria at > low > levels, at higher levels, it's used as a disinfectant, meaning it > kills > bacteria. > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com > (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the > right > side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, > Month) > > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com [mailto:AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. > com] On > Behalf Of fishdudeut > Sent: Thursday, September 03, 2009 5:23 PM > To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Fishless Cycle. > > Here the reading. > > 8/08 - 3:45 > Ammonia 0 - Nitrite 0 - Nitrate 0 - Ph 7.5 - GH 12 - KH 4 - Temp > 76.6 > > Added 30 ML Ammonia > > 8/08 - 9:00 PM - Ammonia Off the chart > > 8/09 - 8/28 - Added 30 ML Ammonia > > 8/29 - 7:15 > Ammonia 0 - Nitrite 3 - Nitrate 5 - PH 7.5 - GH 12 - KH 4 - temp 76.5 > Added > 15 ML Ammonia > 8/29 - 8:00 > Ammonia 0.5 - Nitrite 3 - Nitrate 5 - PH 7.5 - GH 12 - KH 4 - temp > 76.4 > Added 15 ML Ammonia > > 8/30 - 9:15 > Ammonia 0 - Nitrite 1 - Nitrate 5/10 - PH 7.5 - GH 12 - KH 4 - temp > 76.2 > Added 15 ML ammonia > > 8/30 - 8:15 > Ammonia .25 - Nitrite 1 - Nitrate 5 - PH DNT - GH DNT- KH DNT- temp > 76.5 > Added 5 Ml Ammonia > > 8/31 - 5:30 > Ammonia 0 - Nitrite DNT - Nitrate DNT PH DNT - GH DNT - KH DNT - temp > 76.1 > Added 10 ML Ammonia > > 8/31 - 4:20 > Ammonia 0 - Nitrite 0 - Nitrate 5/10 - PH 7.4 - GH 12 - KH 5 - temp > 76..0 > > Added 10 ML Ammonia > > 9/1 - 5:30 > Ammonia 0 - Nitrite .0 - Nitrate 5/10 - PH DNT - GH DNT- KH DNT- temp > 76.4 > Added 10 ML Ammonia > > 9/1 - 2:30 > Ammonia 0 - Nitrite 0 - Nitrate 5 - PH DNT - GH DNT- KH DNT - temp > 76.8 > Added 10 ML Ammonia > > 9/2 - 5:25 > Ammonia .25 - Nitrite DNY - Nitrate DNT- PH DNT - GH DNT - KH DNT - > temp > 76.6 Added 10 ML Ammonia > > 9/3 - 2:25 > Ammonia 0 - Nitrite 0 - Nitrate 10 - PH 7.4 - GH 13 - KH 5 - temp 76.7 > > Today I did each test 3 times to make sure I got the proper readings. > The > nitrate test came out 40 for the first test and the next 2 came out > 10. I'm > thinking I was think ammonia and added 8 drops of one of the solutions > instead of 10. Not sure. > > > I looked at your blog on the filters and the way my filters are set up > you > cannot cut an "H" in them they are the emperor one is the 400 and the > other > is the 280. Looks like I can get the carbon out just not with the "H" cut. > > Anyhow thanks for the info and any ideas? Should I cut back to 5 ML of > ammonia one time a day for a while or still do 10 one or two times a day? > I've toyed with the idea of starting over, but that would be pretty stupid. > > > > > > > > --- In AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com, "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" > <GoldLenny@> > wrote: > > > > Well, 30ml of ammonia in a 55G tank would have raised the ammonia to > > 14ppm so I'm surprised if you would ever get the ammonia eating > > bacteria growing at that level... at least from all of the fishless > > cycling threads that I've read over the years, if the ammonia even > > gets up > to the 6-7ppm level, it can > > cause problems. Even at 15ml in a 55G, that raises the ammonia level to > > 7ppm. There's a reason why the level we strive for is 4-5ppm IN > > EVERY > > FISHLESS CYCLING ARTICLE... because it has been found in countless > > fishless cycling experiments to be the optimum level. Too much > > lower > > and it takes a LOT longer or the tank ends up being cycled for a > > much > > smaller bioload. Too much higher and other problems develop... as > > you are > seeing. > > > > You should cut it back to 10ml at a time and then you can dose it > > every 12 hours with this level. This is all you need to do since a > > fully stocked and properly maintained aquarium only produces around > > 5ppm of ammonia each day, so building a larger nitrifying bacteria > > colony is simply not needed. They are just going to die off when > > you > > stock your tank, since it will not be producing enough ammonia to > > feed > > all of the extra bacteria colonies that you grew. > > > > Yes, overdoing it can be a bad thing. > > > > For example, when cooking, if it takes the 15 minutes at 400F to > > cook > > that small frozen pizza, then it must be better to raise the temp to > 1,200F... > > right? NOPE.. you end up with a SEVERELY overcooked pizza on the > > outside and maybe still mushy on the inside. Maybe that's not a > > good > > analogy but looking at a chemistry analogy... if drinking H2O is > > good.. then drinking > > H2O2 must be better since it has an extra Oxygen molecule.... right? > > NOPE AGAIN. H2O2 is Hydrogen Peroxide and while you might end up > > with > > nice white teeth, the rest of you won't fair so well. ;-) > > > > Now, back to your cycling. I need more data. When you are checking > > twice a day, what are the numbers for temperature, pH, ammonia, > > nitrite, nitrate, GH, KH? I know you said you will not be able to > > test until tomorrow, which is fine, but let us know ALL of the > > information > that is available. > > > > It's good that you are running JUST the Bio-Wheels. Are they spinning OK? > > They don't have to buzz like a top, just as long as they are turning > > on a regular basis. I have one that spins like crazy and another > > that > > just spins about one rotation a second or two but in either case, > > they > > work fine. Of course, I have a lot of other filter media as well. > > As > > far as your Marineland filter cartridges with the built-in carbon, > > you > > will probably want to modify them to add more filter floss and trash > > the carbon. See my blog article, "Filter Profile - Marineland > > Bio-Wheel" to see how I have cut open the black plastic screen that > > holds the carbon and then added more filter floss to add to the > > mechanical filtration. In a fully stocked tank, that thin blue > > filter > > floss pad that is on the Marineland filters will clog up quickly > > causing the water to overflow the filter cartridge and while that > > will > > still keep the tank cycled, due to the Bio-Wheels, you will not be > > getting proper mechanical filtration of any fish poop, detritus > > sucked up > by the filter. > > > > While at my blog, also read my article on proper "Filter Cleaning & > > Maintenance. .." so you do not repeat the mistakes made by so many > > newbies when they follow the directions from the filter companies... > > who are just trying to sell filters, not necessarily do the best > > thing > > for your fish. Of course, that is why Dr. Tim Hovanec invented the > > Bio-Wheel, so that they could tell people to trash the filter > > cartridges every few weeks without causing harm to the fish... but > > it's simply not needed unless you like to transfer money from your > > wallet to someone else's wallet... and if you like doing that, I'll > > give you my PayPal addy and you can transfer some to me too! ;-) > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com (Links to any articles > > referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, > > alphabetically > > under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) > > > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com [mailto:AquaticLife@ > > yahoogroups. com] > > On Behalf Of fishdudeut > > Sent: Wednesday, September 02, 2009 10:31 PM > > To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com > > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Fishless Cycle. > > > > I started out added 30 ML of ammonia and after seeing the VERY high > > results I cut it down to 20 and then down to 15. Been doing 15 every > since. > > > > I have been checking twice a day and I get zero ammonia and zero > > nitrite after about 12 hours. I can't do a set of test until tomorrow. > > I added 15 today at 3:30 and will check results again tomorrow and > > see > > what they are at. You said added to much would cause some bacteria issue. > > > > So over doing can be a bad thing? I would think if it was eating all > > the ammonia and the nitrite were at zero I thought that would be > > good, > > bit that's why I'm here to figure out what's happening wrong. > > > > They only media that's in the filets are the bio wheels. I have the > > Marineland filets and they have the pre filets with the carbon in > > them > > and the bio wheels so nothing is there but the bio wheels. > > > > The other think I have done to the water is topped off the tank. NO > > WATER changes. As far as the KH during the cycle I have not tested > > for > > that. I will run the tests tomorrow and report back. > > > > I'll post in the afternoon when I get home and give a full update on > > the levels as of tomorrow and I'll test for everything. > > > > Jack > > > > > > > > > > --- In AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com, "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" > > <GoldLenny@> > > wrote: > > > > > > The "Baseline Testing" was probably from my blog (URL in my sig). > > > Not very many sites even tell folks about finding their tap water > > > baseline. That's why I wrote that article quite a while back > > > (probably 2004) in another forum and then re-wrote it on my blog > > > when I started my blog in 2007. It's one of the most important > > > things to know when starting out so you know what kind of fish > > > will > > > do best in your tap water so you don't have to think about using > > > all > > > the other chemical fixes that are thrown at people for a quick fix. > > > It also lets you know if you do need some kind of supplement to > > > raise your KH level. It looks like your water stays pretty stable > > > out of the tap through the 48 hour baseline so that's good. And > > > your water parameters give you a broad spectrum of fish you can > > > keep > > > although your water is a little on the hard side (GH = General > > > Hardness) but most fish adapt OK to that parameter, besides it > > > usually goes down in an > > established tank as all of the ecology starts to utilize many of the > > trace elements that make up the GH level. > > > > > > How much ammonia did you add to start with? 30ml is WAY too much > > > to > > > be adding to your tank at one time. This is likely causing your > > > nitrite eating bacteria some problems. For a 55G, you should be > > > adding only 10ml per day... maybe twice a day, every 12 hours, > > > once > > > the cycle is fully established, to keep the ammonia eating > > > bacteria > > > at full capacity until you are ready for your fish. > > > > > > Do me a favor. Test your tank. Make sure you shake all bottles > > > more than the directions say and double check your test procedures > > > to make sure your numbers are as accurate as possible. Note all > > > test > results. > > > Add 10ml of ammonia. Test immediately for ammonia and log results. > > > 12 hours later, test again and log results. If ammonia is down to > > > zero, add 10ml more of ammonia. 12 hours later (24 hours from > > > initial test), test again and log results. Give me those numbers. > > > Continue doing this daily regimen until we have your cycling > > > figured > out. > > > > > > Another group member (can't recall their name right now) is having > > > similar issues with their fishless cycle. > > > > > > NO.. something is still not right with your fishless cycle. The > > > nitrates HAVE to climb as the end product of the nitrogen cycle. > > > Since yours are not climbing, something isn't right. > > > > > > Tell us more about your filtration? Exactly what kind of filter > > > media do you have in your filters? You mentioned not having the > > > carbon, which is good, but what other types of filter media do you > > > have > in them? > > > > > > Have you done any PWC's (partial water changes) during the > > > fishless > > > cycling process? If you haven't done any yet, GOOD! You are not > > > supposed to do them unless you have a low KH level, which you do > > > not > > > have unless it's crashing in the fishless cycling tank. What have > > > your KH levels been during the fishless cycle? > > > > > > I'll wait for your reply before coming up with even more questions. > > > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com (Links to any articles > > > referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, > > > alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, > > > Month) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > From: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com > > > [mailto:AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com] > > > On Behalf Of fishdudeut > > > Sent: Wednesday, September 02, 2009 5:57 PM > > > To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com > > > Subject: [AquaticLife] Fishless Cycle. > > > > > > Fishless Cycle. > > > > > > Ok I have been in the process of doing a fishless cycle. I add > > > the > > > ammonia and it goes off the chart above the highest level of the > > > test card (SUPER DARK GREEN). I let it set for a while and after > > > about 6 or 7 days I saw it start to drop. I can add 30 ML of > > > Ammonia to my 55 gallon tank and the next day (24 hours or so) it > > > will be at 0. I started testing for nitrite and it made it about > > > to > > > 2 or 3 and now after about a week it's down to zero. My nitrate > > > have never spiked they are still between 5 and 10. saw them above > > > 10 > > > one time but could have > > been a failed test. > > > > > > I have a tetra mast test kit. For Ammonia, Nitrite and PH as well > > > as > > > GH and KH. I have an API test kit for Nitrates. > > > > > > I did run a base line on my tap water from a blog I found and > > > can't > > > remember the ULR anymore. > > > > > > Straight from the tap. With API water Conditioner Ammonia 0 > > > Nitrate > > > 0 Nitrate 0 Ph 7.5 GH 12 KH 4 > > > > > > Day 2 > > > Ammonia 0 > > > Nitrate 0 > > > Nitrate 0 > > > Ph 7.5 > > > GH 12 > > > KH 4 > > > > > > Day 3 > > > Ammonia 0 > > > Nitrate 0 - (A slightly darker shade, nit up to .025) Nitrate 0 Ph > > > 7.5 GH 12 KH 4 > > > > > > I'm concerned about the Nitrate never getting above 10. They are > > > the color between 5 and 10. I'll always read that they would be > > > 100 > > > or something like that. > > > > > > > > > Background on the tank. > > > > > > I set it up fresh, bought the tank new and picked up a bio wheel > > > Dual filer off Crags List for $5 and had to replace the bio Wheels. > > > Added a 2nd Bio Wheel Single filter new and also did not add the > > > carbon I have read both ways and decided not to add it as of yet. > > > The gravel is new and I spend some time washing it to remove all > > > the > > > bust and what not from it. The plants are fake. The heater is set > > > to 76 and runs between 76 and 77 depending on the time of day. > > > > > > I'm going to keep live breeders as well as some Cory cats. > > > > > > Questions. > > > > > > Everything I have read tells me when nitrite and ammonia are at O > > > and you add the ammonia to the tank to spike it and it's gone > > > within > > > 24 hours the tank is cycled I have done this for the last 2 days > > > and > > > both ammonia and nitrite come back as zero. I even took a water > > > sample to one of my LFS and had them test the water as well and > > > they > > > reading also came back at 0 and the nitrate was at 5. > > > > > > So do I do the 70% water change or not worry about it since my > > > nitrates are low? I was to the understanding the reason behind > > > this > > > was to remove the nitrates. Anyhow this is pretty long and I'm > > > sure > > > I'll end up with more questions along that way. > > > > > > Jack. > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] ------------------------------------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the home page. Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com to receive the digest, which includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com for the No E-Mail option where you will still be able to read messages on the group and post replies. Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com to receive individual e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 43114	From: kuradi8	Date: 9/5/2009
Subject: Re: betas?

Thanks, I stand corrected! :o) ~Kai --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@...> wrote: > > Kai, > > While 5G might work for a baby 1" goldfish for a short period of time (a > month or two), it's not nearly enough for long term housing of a goldfish. > Even the smallest fancy goldfish grow to 6" to 8" long and are big around so > they still have a similar body mass compared to a 12"+ long bodied goldfish. > Goldfish grow rapidly in their first year and should reach full adult size > in 1-3 years so trying to keep them in an undersized tank while they are > small usually results in long term stunting and its related health problems. > The math actually proves that an adult 8" fancy goldfish is equal in body > mass to over 500 1" goldfish. A younger 4" fancy goldfish is equal to 64 1" > goldfish. See my goldfish care sheet on my blog for more and better info on > long term care for goldfish. The smallest tank one should have for fancy > goldfish is 55G tank for two fancies. A 30G long tank could also work for a > single fancy goldfish but with either of these setups, weekly tank > maintenance is needed to keep the water in decent shape. > > There are live plants that do work with goldfish. I have them outlined on > my "Planted Tank..." blog article. I have live plants in my 65G goldfish > tank (2 fancies and a 2.5" clown pleco) and as long as they are fed enough, > they'll leave the plants alone. What happens is that so many folks keep > goldfish in undersized tanks so they do not feed them enough to try and keep > the water from getting fouled... so the goldfish simply eat the plants. If > kept in the right sized tank, they can be fed properly and then they leave > the plants alone, for the most part. They'll still nibble at the Anacharis > but they don't gulp it down wholesale like they would if underfed. They do > gulp down the duckweed but I grow plenty of that in my Cherry Shrimp tank > mainly for the goldfish to snack on. > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right > side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) > > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On > Behalf Of kuradi8 > Sent: Saturday, September 05, 2009 11:49 AM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: betas? > > Second reply: > > Black moors. Oh, I love them too. Because moors (all goldfish) are > champion poopers, they need larger tanks. Figure about 5 gallons per fish. > Yes, you'll have to cycle their water first too. The larger the tank, the > longer it'll take. They do not need a tank heater (room temperature is good > enough) but they do require an air pump and/or waterfall (aerating) filter. > They are not surface breathers and will suffocate in "just a bowl." They > also need frequent tank maintenance to keep their water clean. They think > most live plants are delicious so you're best off with silk or plastic ones. > ~Kai > > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "kl_whitney" <kl_whitney@> wrote: > > > > Once again, private emails are preferred due to the fact that this is a > very active group. > > My suitemate is getting a beta and I agreed to watch him on the weekends. > If I end up with my own fish, how do I prevent her fish from going bonkers > when he's in my room for the weekends? Should I just put something opaque > between the two bowls? Is it true that they get angry enough to have heart > attacks when they see other fish? > > I might get a beta after all. Not sure. If I can find a nice healthy one > at Walmart I may go for the beta over the black moor. Will a beta feel safe > in a 4 gallon bowl? I thought they were one of the few fishes that prefered > small tanks cause they like to be secure. And once again, if I get a > plastic plant, should it be 6", 9", or 12" for that sized bowl? I want one > that's big enough to give the fish plenty of hiding space. > > Oh, and what do I look for as far as signs of good health go in a beta? I > know that they're pretty mellow unless they're exposed to other fish. So > how do I tell if he's healthy? > > -Kathy > > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 43115	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 9/5/2009
Subject: Re: Nataniel the Fish is sick

It sounds like the "water change" caused his reaction. What percentage did you change? If more than 25% to 33%, this could be the problem and it's why I strongly recommend 25% PWC's. This kind of reaction is usually due to pH shock, possibly osmotic shock. I'm presuming you used a dechlor??? It's probably nothing to do with constipation or bacteria. You should probably do 2 25% PWC's each week, testing your nitrates to make sure this is enough. If your tap water baseline parameters are a LOT different than the tank/bowl, you might have to drop down to 10% PWC's and then do them every other day or more often if needed. I would NOT have used the antibiotics since nothing indicates that it should have been used. The Epsom Salt is less of a problem as mis-using antibiotics but they probably were not needed either. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Dora Smith Sent: Saturday, September 05, 2009 2:55 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Nataniel the Fish is sick I think he OD'd on HBH betta colorbright flakes, but I can't be sure. I first noticed yesterday that he spat out some of what he ate. Nataniel usually scarfs down everything. I changed his water, bringing it up to outside water temperature first because that's where the new water was, and used identical water, and suddenly he was at death's door. Lying around on the bottom of his tank, leaning over, breathing heavily. No interest in food or much of anything else. I managed to get half a brine shrimp into him - that stayed down. This morning his color is better and he's swimming around. I added 3/4 tsp of epsom salts to his gallon and a half of water, and he's had another half brine shrimp and some little bits of green pea. I also added some Maracyn and Marcyn 2 to his water. Anyone have any other suggestions? Yours, Dora Smith Austin, TX tiggernut24@...

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 43116	From: fishdudeut	Date: 9/5/2009
Subject: Re: Fishless Cycle.

Sorry about the typo was in a hurry this morning. The 2nd paragraph was nitrite. I have the tetra Test kit that was giving to me and I was told it's about a year old. I went out a few days ago and bought a API master test kit. So I have double test for everything and all the kits I have are reading the same. It took some time getting use to the 2 different kits being the are done different. All the reading from the last list was with the new test kit. I did not do a new base line because all the reading were the same so I'm guessing the Terra kit is working right. It seems hard to imagine that both test kits are bad. That would be my luck I guess. I have 2 kits for Ammonia and the read the same, 2 kits for nitrite and they also read the same the 2 kits for nitrate are both API and they also read the same. The Nitrate kits have the dates of 0209 and 0709 The Ammonia API kit is 04/09 The Nitrite API kit is 04/09 I cannot find dates on the Tetra kit I was told it was about a year old. It was to my understand they lasted for 2 or 3 years. Now locally I can't find Dr. Tim's one and only or the safe start. --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@...> wrote: > > OK. If I recall correctly, you have the TetraTest-Laborette Master Test Kit > for most of your tests and then the API Nitrate Test Kit for that test since > Nitrate is not included in the T-L kit... right? If yes, then I'm not sure > if they've changed something recently but the color card in my T-L kit, for > Nitrite (NO2-) ranges from yellow to red. The card that goes from purple to > blue is the high pH card. I'm not sure why the kit is reacting differently > on your tank and tap water. If you do not have this TetraTest-Laborette > Master test kit, let me know what the name of your kit is so I will be able > to compare apples to apples. > > In the second paragraph below, you mention that "Ammonia is being eaten in > 12 hours...", then go on to say "bitrates are just about 0", I'm guessing > that was a typo for Nitrates since the b is next to the n key but did you > mean Nitrites or Nitrates... as you mentioned your "Nitrates will not get > off 10." at the beginning of that paragraph. > > Well, I think I figured it out. In your detailed chart of readings, the > last listing shows Nitrites at 0 so that answers my question above. Try to > double-check and/or proof-read your post before sending as typos like that > could result in our giving advice that might not be the right advice, > especially if you had fish and said your nitrites were 10 when you meant to > say your nitrates were 10. > > Now... back to the chart of readings. > > I'm getting confused again. In your detailed listings for 9/5, you show the > 8:30 test with Ammonia at 0 and added 10ml of ammonia, then your 8:35 > testing shows ammonia at only 1.0 where it should be up to 4-5ppm, which is > what it shows up as at 9:05. Unless you added the ammonia at one end of the > tank and immediately tested at the other end of the tank, where the ammonia > might not have spread out to that end, I'm not sure how your test results > are not showing it after 5 minutes in the tank. I'm presuming your filters > are running.. right? With two filter systems on a 55G tank, they should be > mixing the water up completely within 5 minutes so the ammonia should have > been thoroughly mixed after 5 minutes. I'm not sure why the proper ammonia > level is not showing up in your water sampling for 30 minutes but I see the > same thing happening to your testing on the preceding days as well. Are you > adding the ammonia into a corner of the tank where there is limited > circulation? Try adding the ammonia directly into the outflow from one of > your filters so that it gets mixed up throughout the tank quicker. Also, DO > NOT add that much ammonia where it would get sucked up into one of your > filters intake tubes as that level of ammonia would be harmful to your > nitrifying bacteria if sucked into your filter before it's diluted in the > tank. This is another reason that adding it (or other additives/medications > that might ever be needed) to the outflow of the filter is a good idea. If > it is taking 30 minutes to mix up thoroughly, then you might as well just > wait the 30 minutes after adding the ammonia before testing the tank, of > just know that when you add 10ml of ammonia to your 55G tank, it WILL raise > the ammonia level to 4-5ppm of ammonia. > > Since you show your ammonia being cycled but still not getting a nitrite > reading and your nitrates are not going up, I'm really beginning to suspect > something is wrong with your test kit for one or both of those two > compounds.. or something. If you haven't had the kit for very long, I would > bring it back to where you bought it and get a replacement. Your kit might > have been exposed to excessive heat or cold during shipping/storage in a > warehouse and is not giving you accurate results. The "math" simply is not > adding up for your tests right now. > > As far as using Safe Start or a better choice, Dr. Tim's One And Only, while > these products can be used with fishless cycling, they are actually a > replacement to fishless cycling. If you are going to go with one of these > products, you could simply plan what fish you are going to buy and make sure > your store has them in stock, then add the product on one day and the next > day, pick up your fish and acclimate them to your tank and add them. There > is no need to do the fishless cycling... although, I guess if you wanted to > be certain the products are working, you could do the ammonia test for a day > or two to make sure the bacteria product that you added is indeed working. > There have been reports of these products being exposed to excessive cold or > heat causing them to fail as well. If you do decide on one of these > products, you should do a 90% PWC to remove the water that you've been using > for fishless cycling. The same holds true after doing a fishless cycle, > before adding fish. > > Keep doing the daily or twice daily dosing of ammonia to keep the bacteria > that you do have, alive, while we continue to try and figure out what is not > working right here. If you cannot bring your current kit back for a > replacement, do you have a friend that can come over with their test kit and > test your water... just to get a second opinion on your test results? > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right > side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) > > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On > Behalf Of fishdudeut > Sent: Saturday, September 05, 2009 10:47 AM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Fishless Cycle. > > When I test for Nitrites it starts out dark purple and at the end of the 5 > minute wait period it goes to just slightly darker the baby blue. When I > test my tap it starts at baby blue and stays there. > > Nitrates will not get off 10. Ammonia is being eating in 12 hours, bitrates > are just about 0. I'm lost as what to do on this cycle. I was reading > yesterday that some people are getting faster results using a safe start > with their fishless cycle. > > > 9/3 5:30 Ammonia 0 / Added 10 ML Ammonia > 9/3 5:37 Ammonia 1.0 /Nitrite 0+ > 9/3 2:30 Ammonia 0 / Added 10 ML Ammonia > 9/3 2:40 Ammonia 1.0 > 9/3 2:45 Ammonia 1.5 > 9/3 3:10 Ammonia 4+ / Nitrite 0+ / Nitrate 10 > > 9/4 5:20 Ammonia 0 / Added 10 ML Ammonia > 9/4 5:30 Ammonia 1.0 > 9/4 5:35 Ammonia 1.5 > 9/4 5:50 Ammonia 4+ /Nitrite 0+/Nitrate 10 > > 9/4 8:30 Ammonia 0 / Added 10 ML Ammonia > 9/4 8:45 Ammonia 2 > 9/4 9:00 Ammonia 4+ / Nitrite 0+ / Nitrate 10 > > 9/5 8:30 Ammonia 0 /Added 10 ML ammonia > 9/5 8:35 Ammonia 1.0 / Nitrite 0+ /Nitrate 10 > > 9/5 8:50 Ammonia 3 / Nitrite 0+/ Nitrate 10 > > 9/5 9:05 Ammonia 4+ / Nitrite 0+ /Nitrate 10

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 43117	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 9/5/2009
Subject: Re: Fishless Cycle.

Ahhh.. OK. I didn't realize you had a new API test kit. While the manufacturers state that their test kits last 3-5 years, once the bottles are opened, their life span is much shorter so consider getting a new kit every year. WalMart.com sells them for $15-$17 with free shipping to your local store and you could alternate the brands each year so you have a full array of tests on hands at all times, since the API kit is missing GH, KH and CO2 testing and the T-L kit is missing the nitrate testing. This is what I do. I don't think the T-L kit has easily verifiable dates on them. You would have to email Tetra from their website and give them the bottle's LOT numbers for Tetra to tell you when they were manufactured. Since your T-L kit is still testing accurately, according to the duplicate testing done with the API kit, then continue to use it and save the API kit for when the T-L kit runs out, since you know the API kit is newer. As you can see, the T-L kits have more types of tests but the bottles of reagents are smaller bottles. Even with the smaller bottles, I find that the kit still lasts a full year+, even with multiple tanks. Since you are doing so much testing with your fishless cycle, you could go through the T-L kit for ammonia, nitrite, nitrate but at least you'll still have the GH & KH test kits to go with the rest of the tests with the API kit. I also like the plastic rectangular test tubes with the T-L kit, over the small vials with the API kit. I use the rectangular tubes for most of my API testing and use 10ml of water instead of 5ml of water. Of course, you have to double the reagent drops when doing this but I figure I'm getting a better water sample from the tank with 10ml. Considering all of this, I'm still not sure what is happening to your nitrites and/or nitrates. Continue with your daily dosing and maybe just test the tank for all of your tests (including KH) every other day until we see your nitrates start to climb. MAKE SURE you shake the API nitrate bottle #2 for over a minute (even though the instructions say just 30 seconds) to insure that you are getting accurate test results. You should be an expert on testing by now but still double check the instructions to minimize the chances of mistakes as we are all human and make mistakes. Hopefully, in a few more days of proper dosing of ammonia, we will start to see some changes in the nitrate levels. I'm still leaning towards my theory that the overdosing of ammonia delayed your fishless cycling for the past two months. If all goes well, you should see your nitrates starting to climb soon and then we will be more assured that your cycling is complete. We should know for certain in the next 7 days. Please note that the nitrite and nitrate levels do not go up proportionately to the amount of ammonia, In other words, 1ppm of ammonia will not create 1ppm of nitrate. It takes a LOT of ammonia to create even a low level of nitrites and then a lot of nitrites to make a low level of nitrates. Give it another week since you are so close now. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of fishdudeut Sent: Saturday, September 05, 2009 4:12 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Fishless Cycle. Sorry about the typo was in a hurry this morning. The 2nd paragraph was nitrite. I have the tetra Test kit that was giving to me and I was told it's about a year old. I went out a few days ago and bought a API master test kit. So I have double test for everything and all the kits I have are reading the same. It took some time getting use to the 2 different kits being the are done different. All the reading from the last list was with the new test kit. I did not do a new base line because all the reading were the same so I'm guessing the Terra kit is working right. It seems hard to imagine that both test kits are bad. That would be my luck I guess. I have 2 kits for Ammonia and the read the same, 2 kits for nitrite and they also read the same the 2 kits for nitrate are both API and they also read the same. The Nitrate kits have the dates of 0209 and 0709 The Ammonia API kit is 04/09 The Nitrite API kit is 04/09 I cannot find dates on the Tetra kit I was told it was about a year old. It was to my understand they lasted for 2 or 3 years. Now locally I can't find Dr. Tim's one and only or the safe start. --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@...> wrote: > > OK. If I recall correctly, you have the TetraTest-Laborette Master > Test Kit for most of your tests and then the API Nitrate Test Kit for > that test since Nitrate is not included in the T-L kit... right? If > yes, then I'm not sure if they've changed something recently but the > color card in my T-L kit, for Nitrite (NO2-) ranges from yellow to > red. The card that goes from purple to blue is the high pH card. I'm > not sure why the kit is reacting differently on your tank and tap > water. If you do not have this TetraTest-Laborette Master test kit, > let me know what the name of your kit is so I will be able to compare apples to apples. > > In the second paragraph below, you mention that "Ammonia is being > eaten in > 12 hours...", then go on to say "bitrates are just about 0", I'm > guessing that was a typo for Nitrates since the b is next to the n key > but did you mean Nitrites or Nitrates... as you mentioned your > "Nitrates will not get off 10." at the beginning of that paragraph. > > Well, I think I figured it out. In your detailed chart of readings, > the last listing shows Nitrites at 0 so that answers my question > above. Try to double-check and/or proof-read your post before sending > as typos like that could result in our giving advice that might not be > the right advice, especially if you had fish and said your nitrites > were 10 when you meant to say your nitrates were 10. > > Now... back to the chart of readings. > > I'm getting confused again. In your detailed listings for 9/5, you > show the 8:30 test with Ammonia at 0 and added 10ml of ammonia, then > your 8:35 testing shows ammonia at only 1.0 where it should be up to > 4-5ppm, which is what it shows up as at 9:05. Unless you added the > ammonia at one end of the tank and immediately tested at the other end > of the tank, where the ammonia might not have spread out to that end, > I'm not sure how your test results are not showing it after 5 minutes > in the tank. I'm presuming your filters are running.. right? With > two filter systems on a 55G tank, they should be mixing the water up > completely within 5 minutes so the ammonia should have been thoroughly > mixed after 5 minutes. I'm not sure why the proper ammonia level is > not showing up in your water sampling for 30 minutes but I see the > same thing happening to your testing on the preceding days as well. > Are you adding the ammonia into a corner of the tank where there is > limited circulation? Try adding the ammonia directly into the outflow > from one of your filters so that it gets mixed up throughout the tank > quicker. Also, DO NOT add that much ammonia where it would get sucked > up into one of your filters intake tubes as that level of ammonia > would be harmful to your nitrifying bacteria if sucked into your > filter before it's diluted in the tank. This is another reason that > adding it (or other additives/medications that might ever be needed) > to the outflow of the filter is a good idea. If it is taking 30 > minutes to mix up thoroughly, then you might as well just wait the 30 > minutes after adding the ammonia before testing the tank, of just know that when you add 10ml of ammonia to your 55G tank, it WILL raise the ammonia level to 4-5ppm of ammonia. > > Since you show your ammonia being cycled but still not getting a > nitrite reading and your nitrates are not going up, I'm really > beginning to suspect something is wrong with your test kit for one or > both of those two compounds.. or something. If you haven't had the > kit for very long, I would bring it back to where you bought it and > get a replacement. Your kit might have been exposed to excessive heat > or cold during shipping/storage in a warehouse and is not giving you > accurate results. The "math" simply is not adding up for your tests right now. > > As far as using Safe Start or a better choice, Dr. Tim's One And Only, > while these products can be used with fishless cycling, they are > actually a replacement to fishless cycling. If you are going to go > with one of these products, you could simply plan what fish you are > going to buy and make sure your store has them in stock, then add the > product on one day and the next day, pick up your fish and acclimate > them to your tank and add them. There is no need to do the fishless > cycling... although, I guess if you wanted to be certain the products > are working, you could do the ammonia test for a day or two to make sure the bacteria product that you added is indeed working. > There have been reports of these products being exposed to excessive > cold or heat causing them to fail as well. If you do decide on one of > these products, you should do a 90% PWC to remove the water that > you've been using for fishless cycling. The same holds true after > doing a fishless cycle, before adding fish. > > Keep doing the daily or twice daily dosing of ammonia to keep the > bacteria that you do have, alive, while we continue to try and figure > out what is not working right here. If you cannot bring your current > kit back for a replacement, do you have a friend that can come over > with their test kit and test your water... just to get a second opinion on your test results? > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles > referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically > under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) > > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] > On Behalf Of fishdudeut > Sent: Saturday, September 05, 2009 10:47 AM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Fishless Cycle. > > When I test for Nitrites it starts out dark purple and at the end of > the 5 minute wait period it goes to just slightly darker the baby > blue. When I test my tap it starts at baby blue and stays there. > > Nitrates will not get off 10. Ammonia is being eating in 12 hours, > bitrates are just about 0. I'm lost as what to do on this cycle. I > was reading yesterday that some people are getting faster results > using a safe start with their fishless cycle. > > > 9/3 5:30 Ammonia 0 / Added 10 ML Ammonia > 9/3 5:37 Ammonia 1.0 /Nitrite 0+ > 9/3 2:30 Ammonia 0 / Added 10 ML Ammonia > 9/3 2:40 Ammonia 1.0 > 9/3 2:45 Ammonia 1.5 > 9/3 3:10 Ammonia 4+ / Nitrite 0+ / Nitrate 10 > > 9/4 5:20 Ammonia 0 / Added 10 ML Ammonia > 9/4 5:30 Ammonia 1.0 > 9/4 5:35 Ammonia 1.5 > 9/4 5:50 Ammonia 4+ /Nitrite 0+/Nitrate 10 > > 9/4 8:30 Ammonia 0 / Added 10 ML Ammonia > 9/4 8:45 Ammonia 2 > 9/4 9:00 Ammonia 4+ / Nitrite 0+ / Nitrate 10 > > 9/5 8:30 Ammonia 0 /Added 10 ML ammonia > 9/5 8:35 Ammonia 1.0 / Nitrite 0+ /Nitrate 10 > > 9/5 8:50 Ammonia 3 / Nitrite 0+/ Nitrate 10 > > 9/5 9:05 Ammonia 4+ / Nitrite 0+ /Nitrate 10

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 43118	From: fishdudeut	Date: 9/5/2009
Subject: Re: Fishless Cycle.

Sounds good really don't want to go the safe start way. I've read mix reviews and being into the fishless cycle so long I figure it's got to be getting close. I like the plastic tubes better than the round glass one as well. Some time I do see it not as easy to get the levels right the curve in the water level. I'll have to try doubling next time and see if by some change I get different results. I'll start the KH testing as well. Add ammonia every day and check over other. I'm wondering if all the test bottles should be shaken? I read on here that shake the nitrate for 2 minutes and I have been doing that and then shaking the final collection in the tube for 1 minute. Do you shake all your test solutions (the bottle before added the drops)? I have read the direction a million times. The Nitrate with API pretty easy to remember, but I check since PH is also blue want to make sure I'm adding the right number of drops. I have been adding ammonia ever 12 hours should I just keep doing that or just add one time a day? I plan on another week. Heck if it takes two that's cool, just wish the dang nitrates would start climbing even a little would be nice. Again sorry for all the stupid typos and thanks for all the help. You're help is greatly appreciated. Jack. --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@...> wrote: > > Ahhh.. OK. I didn't realize you had a new API test kit. While the > manufacturers state that their test kits last 3-5 years, once the bottles > are opened, their life span is much shorter so consider getting a new kit > every year. WalMart.com sells them for $15-$17 with free shipping to your > local store and you could alternate the brands each year so you have a full > array of tests on hands at all times, since the API kit is missing GH, KH > and CO2 testing and the T-L kit is missing the nitrate testing. This is > what I do. > > I don't think the T-L kit has easily verifiable dates on them. You would > have to email Tetra from their website and give them the bottle's LOT > numbers for Tetra to tell you when they were manufactured. Since your T-L > kit is still testing accurately, according to the duplicate testing done > with the API kit, then continue to use it and save the API kit for when the > T-L kit runs out, since you know the API kit is newer. As you can see, the > T-L kits have more types of tests but the bottles of reagents are smaller > bottles. Even with the smaller bottles, I find that the kit still lasts a > full year+, even with multiple tanks. Since you are doing so much testing > with your fishless cycle, you could go through the T-L kit for ammonia, > nitrite, nitrate but at least you'll still have the GH & KH test kits to go > with the rest of the tests with the API kit. > > I also like the plastic rectangular test tubes with the T-L kit, over the > small vials with the API kit. I use the rectangular tubes for most of my API > testing and use 10ml of water instead of 5ml of water. Of course, you have > to double the reagent drops when doing this but I figure I'm getting a > better water sample from the tank with 10ml. > > Considering all of this, I'm still not sure what is happening to your > nitrites and/or nitrates. Continue with your daily dosing and maybe just > test the tank for all of your tests (including KH) every other day until we > see your nitrates start to climb. MAKE SURE you shake the API nitrate > bottle #2 for over a minute (even though the instructions say just 30 > seconds) to insure that you are getting accurate test results. You should > be an expert on testing by now but still double check the instructions to > minimize the chances of mistakes as we are all human and make mistakes. > Hopefully, in a few more days of proper dosing of ammonia, we will start to > see some changes in the nitrate levels. I'm still leaning towards my theory > that the overdosing of ammonia delayed your fishless cycling for the past > two months. If all goes well, you should see your nitrates starting to > climb soon and then we will be more assured that your cycling is complete. > We should know for certain in the next 7 days. > > Please note that the nitrite and nitrate levels do not go up proportionately > to the amount of ammonia, In other words, 1ppm of ammonia will not create > 1ppm of nitrate. It takes a LOT of ammonia to create even a low level of > nitrites and then a lot of nitrites to make a low level of nitrates. Give > it another week since you are so close now. > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right > side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month)

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 43119	From: Dora Smith	Date: 9/5/2009
Subject: Re: Nataniel the Fish is sick

Repost; first time it fell into hyperspace Yours, Dora Smith Austin, TX tiggernut24@... ----- Original Message ----- From: "Dora Smith" <tiggernut24@...> To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Saturday, September 05, 2009 2:54 PM Subject: Nataniel the Fish is sick >I think he OD'd on HBH betta colorbright flakes, but I can't be sure. I >first noticed yesterday that he spat out some of what he ate. Nataniel >usually scarfs down everything. I changed his water, bringing it up to >outside water temperature first because that's where the new water was, and >used identical water, and suddenly he was at death's door. Lying around >on the bottom of his tank, leaning over, breathing heavily. No interest >in food or much of anything else. I managed to get half a brine shrimp >into him - that stayed down. This morning his color is better and he's >swimming around. I added 3/4 tsp of epsom salts to his gallon and a half >of water, and he's had another half brine shrimp and some little bits of >green pea. I also added some Maracyn and Marcyn 2 to his water. > > Anyone have any other suggestions? > > Yours, > Dora Smith > Austin, TX > tiggernut24@... >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 43120	From: greychildren	Date: 9/5/2009
Subject: My beloved clown loach is not normal

My clown loach who i had for the past year and a half has lost all the weight and looks like a stick very very skinny.. i don't know whats going on i know i moved about 2 weeks ago and had to transport and refill tanks... Ph is a stable 7.0 nitrate are below 0.2 ammonia is 0.1 nitrate are 0.0 water temp is Always keep at 77f....I don't know when its playing or dead...please help

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 43121	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 9/5/2009
Subject: Re: My beloved clown loach is not normal

There are either typos or something wrong with your test results.. most likely a typo or two. Normal nitrate test kits do not test down below 5ppm, unless you guess at the level between 0ppm and 5ppm. Further, you list nitrate twice, "nitrate are below 0.2" and again "nitrate are 0.0" so I'm going to guess that the first nitrate should have been nitrITE. Since you are showing both ammonia and nitrITE and 0.0 nitrates, this means your tank is not cycled and if it's been two weeks, it means your fish have possibly been going through the cycling process which is tough on fish. This could be your problem... or a secondary issue such as bacterial or parasitic that could have occurred as a result of the lowered immune system from the stress of the move and the cycling issues. What measures did you take when you moved to make sure you kept your filters alive with nitrifying bacteria? What size tank? What other fish? I'm guessing any other fish are OK since you didn't mention them. Do you have something to set up as a H-tank (Hospital tank)? A sick fish in with other fish actually incurs further stress because in the wild, a sick fish is more likely to be picked on or eaten by a predator. This is why sick fish will often hide. I know Clown Loaches are known for sleeping on their side where people have thought their fish died so I'm not as concerned about that but the noticeable loss of weight means it is either not eating or if it is eating, it could have an internal parasite that is eating all the food, causing the fish to start to waste away. Certain digestive tract bacterial infections can also cause diarrhea so that food flows through the fish so fast that it cannot absorb any of the nutrition from the food. If the fish is in an H-tank, you could observe better to see that it is eating and also pooping. Poop from a sick fish usually has certain tell-tale signs to help diagnose what might be wrong but this is hard to tell when the fish is in a big tank with other fish, decorations, plants, etc. The H-tank should only have one decoration or plant so the fish can hide a little to feel more secure but not enough to block your observation of the fish. Here's a site with poop descriptions. It's on a goldfish site but it's applicable to tropical fish as well, for the most part.. except for the coloration of the food. With goldfish, their digestive tract is so short that what comes out often looks like what went in because the food processed through so quickly. This is why goldfish are constantly looking for and constantly need lots of smaller meals rather than one or two big meals a day... especially as babies and juvis. I even feed my adult goldfish twice a day with a snack in between... otherwise they'd just snack on my plants. Their attitude is "A fish has got to eat!" Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of greychildren Sent: Saturday, September 05, 2009 6:21 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] My beloved clown loach is not normal My clown loach who i had for the past year and a half has lost all the weight and looks like a stick very very skinny.. i don't know whats going on i know i moved about 2 weeks ago and had to transport and refill tanks... Ph is a stable 7.0 nitrate are below 0.2 ammonia is 0.1 nitrate are 0.0 water temp is Always keep at 77f....I don't know when its playing or dead...please help

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 43122	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 9/5/2009
Subject: Re: Nataniel the Fish is sick

I got it the first time and replied. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Dora Smith Sent: Saturday, September 05, 2009 3:46 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Nataniel the Fish is sick Repost; first time it fell into hyperspace Yours, Dora Smith Austin, TX tiggernut24@... ----- Original Message ----- From: "Dora Smith" <tiggernut24@...> To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Saturday, September 05, 2009 2:54 PM Subject: Nataniel the Fish is sick >I think he OD'd on HBH betta colorbright flakes, but I can't be sure. I >first noticed yesterday that he spat out some of what he ate. Nataniel >usually scarfs down everything. I changed his water, bringing it up to >outside water temperature first because that's where the new water was, and >used identical water, and suddenly he was at death's door. Lying around >on the bottom of his tank, leaning over, breathing heavily. No interest >in food or much of anything else. I managed to get half a brine shrimp >into him - that stayed down. This morning his color is better and he's >swimming around. I added 3/4 tsp of epsom salts to his gallon and a half >of water, and he's had another half brine shrimp and some little bits of >green pea. I also added some Maracyn and Marcyn 2 to his water. > > Anyone have any other suggestions? > > Yours, > Dora Smith > Austin, TX > tiggernut24@... > ------------------------------------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the home page. Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com to receive the digest, which includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com for the No E-Mail option where you will still be able to read messages on the group and post replies. Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com to receive individual e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 43123	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 9/5/2009
Subject: Re: Fishless Cycle.

Yes, I shake all of my reagent bottles at least a few shakes. The ones that instruct to shake more, I double that. Same with the test tubes. If they say to just shake one or twice, I do three or four... just to make sure the solution is mixed properly once it's in the test tube as well. As long as it looks like your ammonia is going down to 0.0ppm every 12 hours, then keep dosing every 12 hours. No need in possibly starving some of your ammonia eating bacteria. Technically, in our tanks with fish, they are being fed 24/7 instead of getting 5ppm all at once and then going down to 0.0ppm but it would be a lot of extra work to start feeding the bacteria every hour or two. For all of the Fishless Cycling that I've done and helped others with, usually feeding the bacteria twice a day is all that is needed. Another thing I thought about... which shouldn't be as much of issue with Bio-Wheels but it sometimes is with other filter media, is making sure there's enough O2 in the water. Either lower the water level a little so the waterfalls from the filters causes more splashing and surface agitation, which will raise the O2 level in the water. The whole purpose of the Bio-Wheel is that it is a semi-wet-dry filter so that the wet pleated filter media is supposed to get plenty of aeration but I guess it wouldn't hurt to add more O2 into the tank water as well. Nitrifying bacteria need LOTS of O2 in their water. And remember, if you do decide to go with Dr. Tim's or Safe Start, you would have to do a large 90% water change before starting with a new plan. Since you indicate you don't mind another week, you probably didn't need that reminder but I wanted to just in case you get frustrated. And definitely test your KH in the tank. There's always a chance that it is too low and that could be causing problems as the bacteria also need carbonates to survive. I'm pretty sure I mentioned that early on but you could have missed it with all the other information overload. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of fishdudeut Sent: Saturday, September 05, 2009 6:28 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Fishless Cycle. Sounds good really don't want to go the safe start way. I've read mix reviews and being into the fishless cycle so long I figure it's got to be getting close. I like the plastic tubes better than the round glass one as well. Some time I do see it not as easy to get the levels right the curve in the water level. I'll have to try doubling next time and see if by some change I get different results. I'll start the KH testing as well. Add ammonia every day and check over other. I'm wondering if all the test bottles should be shaken? I read on here that shake the nitrate for 2 minutes and I have been doing that and then shaking the final collection in the tube for 1 minute. Do you shake all your test solutions (the bottle before added the drops)? I have read the direction a million times. The Nitrate with API pretty easy to remember, but I check since PH is also blue want to make sure I'm adding the right number of drops. I have been adding ammonia ever 12 hours should I just keep doing that or just add one time a day? I plan on another week. Heck if it takes two that's cool, just wish the dang nitrates would start climbing even a little would be nice. Again sorry for all the stupid typos and thanks for all the help. You're help is greatly appreciated. Jack. --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@...> wrote: > > Ahhh.. OK. I didn't realize you had a new API test kit. While the > manufacturers state that their test kits last 3-5 years, once the > bottles are opened, their life span is much shorter so consider > getting a new kit every year. WalMart.com sells them for $15-$17 with > free shipping to your local store and you could alternate the brands > each year so you have a full array of tests on hands at all times, > since the API kit is missing GH, KH and CO2 testing and the T-L kit is > missing the nitrate testing. This is what I do. > > I don't think the T-L kit has easily verifiable dates on them. You > would have to email Tetra from their website and give them the > bottle's LOT numbers for Tetra to tell you when they were > manufactured. Since your T-L kit is still testing accurately, > according to the duplicate testing done with the API kit, then > continue to use it and save the API kit for when the T-L kit runs out, > since you know the API kit is newer. As you can see, the T-L kits > have more types of tests but the bottles of reagents are smaller > bottles. Even with the smaller bottles, I find that the kit still > lasts a full year+, even with multiple tanks. Since you are doing so > much testing with your fishless cycle, you could go through the T-L > kit for ammonia, nitrite, nitrate but at least you'll still have the GH & KH test kits to go with the rest of the tests with the API kit. > > I also like the plastic rectangular test tubes with the T-L kit, over > the small vials with the API kit. I use the rectangular tubes for most > of my API testing and use 10ml of water instead of 5ml of water. Of > course, you have to double the reagent drops when doing this but I > figure I'm getting a better water sample from the tank with 10ml. > > Considering all of this, I'm still not sure what is happening to your > nitrites and/or nitrates. Continue with your daily dosing and maybe > just test the tank for all of your tests (including KH) every other > day until we see your nitrates start to climb. MAKE SURE you shake > the API nitrate bottle #2 for over a minute (even though the > instructions say just 30 > seconds) to insure that you are getting accurate test results. You > should be an expert on testing by now but still double check the > instructions to minimize the chances of mistakes as we are all human and make mistakes. > Hopefully, in a few more days of proper dosing of ammonia, we will > start to see some changes in the nitrate levels. I'm still leaning > towards my theory that the overdosing of ammonia delayed your fishless > cycling for the past two months. If all goes well, you should see > your nitrates starting to climb soon and then we will be more assured that your cycling is complete. > We should know for certain in the next 7 days. > > Please note that the nitrite and nitrate levels do not go up > proportionately to the amount of ammonia, In other words, 1ppm of > ammonia will not create 1ppm of nitrate. It takes a LOT of ammonia to > create even a low level of nitrites and then a lot of nitrites to make > a low level of nitrates. Give it another week since you are so close now. > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles > referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically > under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month)

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 43124	From: fishdudeut	Date: 9/5/2009
Subject: Re: Fishless Cycle./fishdudeut/Why?.

I have given it some thought. The price is WAY to much and I have read stories where it did not work as stated. So I decided to go the cheap route. Heck like Lenny said when all is said and done I should have the water tests down pat. --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, harry perry <harryfisherman@...> wrote: > > I have been following your posts and I have to ask why would anyone put themselves thru all this?. > > All you need is Dr. Tims one and only to cycle your tank. > > I am not an affiliate. I have used this product many times. It works great. > > You simple add it to your tank and the next day test your water and add the fish. > http://tinyurl.com/ny7ke6 > > That's all you have to do. > > Harry > > --- On Sat, 9/5/09, fishdudeut <jacknobel@...> wrote: > > From: fishdudeut <jacknobel@...> > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Fishless Cycle. > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Date: Saturday, September 5, 2009, 11:47 AM > > > > > > >   > > > > > > When I test for Nitrites it starts out dark purple and at the end of the 5 minute wait period it goes to > > just slightly darker the baby blue. When I test my tap it starts at baby blue and stays there. > > > > Nitrates will not get off 10. Ammonia is being eating in 12 hours, bitrates are just about 0. I'm lost > > as what to do on this cycle. I was reading yesterday that some people are getting faster results using > > a safe start with their fishless cycle. > > > > 9/3 5:30 Ammonia 0 / Added 10 ML Ammonia > > 9/3 5:37 Ammonia 1.0 /Nitrite 0+ > > 9/3 2:30 Ammonia 0 / Added 10 ML Ammonia > > 9/3 2:40 Ammonia 1.0 > > 9/3 2:45 Ammonia 1.5 > > 9/3 3:10 Ammonia 4+ / Nitrite 0+ / Nitrate 10 > > 9/4 5:20 Ammonia 0 / Added 10 ML Ammonia > > 9/4 5:30 Ammonia 1.0 > > 9/4 5:35 Ammonia 1.5 > > 9/4 5:50 Ammonia 4+ /Nitrite 0+/Nitrate 10 > > 9/4 8:30 Ammonia 0 / Added 10 ML Ammonia > > 9/4 8:45 Ammonia 2 > > 9/4 9:00 Ammonia 4+ / Nitrite 0+ / Nitrate 10 > > 9/5 8:30 Ammonia 0 /Added 10 ML ammonia > > 9/5 8:35 Ammonia 1.0 / Nitrite 0+ /Nitrate 10 > > 9/5 8:50 Ammonia 3 / Nitrite 0+/ Nitrate 10 > > 9/5 9:05 Ammonia 4+ / Nitrite 0+ /Nitrate 10 > > > > --- In AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com, "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@ ..> wrote: > > > > > > Are the first two "8/08" supposed to be 8/28??? Well, maybe not since the > > > third date range has "8/09 - 8/28". If I'm reading this correctly, you > > > added 30ml of Ammonia on "8/08" and even with the "Ammonia Off the chart", > > > you added another 30ml of Ammonia between "8/09 - 8/28"? If this is > > > correct, then I'm not sure what might be happening with your cycle but I > > > think it would not work at that high of an ammonia level. I've never tried > > > to use ammonia at that high of a level and have always strived to keep it > > > between 4-5ppm per all of the Fishless Cycling instruction sites. > > > > > > Here's one theory that is popping into my head but this would have to be > > > tested to verify the theory... > > > > > > With that much ammonia to start, from all I've read, the nitrifying bacteria > > > will have a tough time growing and I'm wondering if the ammonia wasn't > > > simply evaporating, rather than being converted to nitrite, then nitrate, > > > which would explain your low nitrate level and the lack of a nitrite spike. > > > Possibly, after enough ammonia evaporated, you started to get a little > > > cycling done which is why you never did get a BIG nitrite spike and your > > > nitrates continue to be relatively low. > > > > > > Then, when you followed up with another overdose of ammonia to either 30ml > > > or 15ml, which would raise the ammonia level to at least 7ppm (or 14ppm with > > > 30ml), any nitrification that might have started to happen went into a stall > > > again or possibly even died off some, until some of the ammonia evaporated > > > and then you get some nitrification happening again. > > > > > > You do not have to start over but you do need to get back on the right track > > > and follow the instructions for a week or so to see how things work out. > > > Hopefully, your Bio-Wheels have some of the three nitrifying bacteria > > > (nitrospira, nitrosospira and nitrosomonas) growing on them so you will at > > > least have a BIG jump start over starting from scratch. Just follow the > > > directions. Hopefully, with your 9/3 test results showing 10ppm of nitrate, > > > it means your tank is cycling a little... unless there is a problem with > > > your testing procedures since you indicate you may have erred on the nitrate > > > test. Double check the instructions prior to testing and during the test to > > > try and get accurate results. > > > > > > Now... to my suggested plan of attack at this point... > > > > > > Test your ammonia. If it's at 0.0ppm, add 10ml of ammonia (for a 55G tank). > > > Immediately re-test the ammonia. It should be around 5.0ppm. If it is, > > > also test nitrite and nitrate. Log results. After 12 hours or so, re-test > > > again and log results. If the ammonia is down to 0.0ppm, then the nitrites > > > should be showing some kind of a level. If they aren't, then something is > > > wrong with the testing. If the ammonia is down to 0.0ppm and there are some > > > nitrites present, then re-dose the tank with 10ml of ammonia and wait 12 > > > hours. Re-test and log results. Post all of these results as your 24 hour > > > regimen so we can see what is happening and advise further. > > > > > > Hopefully, if you stick to the proper dosage, you will start to see your > > > cycling start to rapidly gain hold, presuming some of the nitrifying > > > bacteria are alive and/or survived the overdosing. > > > > > > Remember, that ammonia, while it is eaten by nitrifying bacteria at low > > > levels, at higher levels, it's used as a disinfectant, meaning it kills > > > bacteria. > > > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com > > > (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right > > > side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) > > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > From: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com [mailto:AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com] On > > > Behalf Of fishdudeut > > > Sent: Thursday, September 03, 2009 5:23 PM > > > To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com > > > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Fishless Cycle. > > > > > > Here the reading. > > > > > > 8/08 - 3:45 > > > Ammonia 0 - Nitrite 0 - Nitrate 0 - Ph 7.5 - GH 12 - KH 4 - Temp 76.6 > > > > > > Added 30 ML Ammonia > > > > > > 8/08 - 9:00 PM - Ammonia Off the chart > > > > > > 8/09 - 8/28 - Added 30 ML Ammonia > > > > > > 8/29 - 7:15 > > > Ammonia 0 - Nitrite 3 - Nitrate 5 - PH 7.5 - GH 12 - KH 4 - temp 76.5 Added > > > 15 ML Ammonia > > > 8/29 - 8:00 > > > Ammonia 0.5 - Nitrite 3 - Nitrate 5 - PH 7.5 - GH 12 - KH 4 - temp 76.4 > > > Added 15 ML Ammonia > > > > > > 8/30 - 9:15 > > > Ammonia 0 - Nitrite 1 - Nitrate 5/10 - PH 7.5 - GH 12 - KH 4 - temp 76.2 > > > Added 15 ML ammonia > > > > > > 8/30 - 8:15 > > > Ammonia .25 - Nitrite 1 - Nitrate 5 - PH DNT - GH DNT- KH DNT- temp 76.5 > > > Added 5 Ml Ammonia > > > > > > 8/31 - 5:30 > > > Ammonia 0 - Nitrite DNT - Nitrate DNT PH DNT - GH DNT - KH DNT - temp 76.1 > > > Added 10 ML Ammonia > > > > > > 8/31 - 4:20 > > > Ammonia 0 - Nitrite 0 - Nitrate 5/10 - PH 7.4 - GH 12 - KH 5 - temp 76..0 > > > > > > Added 10 ML Ammonia > > > > > > 9/1 - 5:30 > > > Ammonia 0 - Nitrite .0 - Nitrate 5/10 - PH DNT - GH DNT- KH DNT- temp 76.4 > > > Added 10 ML Ammonia > > > > > > 9/1 - 2:30 > > > Ammonia 0 - Nitrite 0 - Nitrate 5 - PH DNT - GH DNT- KH DNT - temp 76.8 > > > Added 10 ML Ammonia > > > > > > 9/2 - 5:25 > > > Ammonia .25 - Nitrite DNY - Nitrate DNT- PH DNT - GH DNT - KH DNT - temp > > > 76.6 Added 10 ML Ammonia > > > > > > 9/3 - 2:25 > > > Ammonia 0 - Nitrite 0 - Nitrate 10 - PH 7.4 - GH 13 - KH 5 - temp 76.7 > > > > > > Today I did each test 3 times to make sure I got the proper readings. The > > > nitrate test came out 40 for the first test and the next 2 came out 10. I'm > > > thinking I was think ammonia and added 8 drops of one of the solutions > > > instead of 10. Not sure. > > > > > > > > > I looked at your blog on the filters and the way my filters are set up you > > > cannot cut an "H" in them they are the emperor one is the 400 and the other > > > is the 280. Looks like I can get the carbon out just not with the "H" cut. > > > > > > Anyhow thanks for the info and any ideas? Should I cut back to 5 ML of > > > ammonia one time a day for a while or still do 10 one or two times a day? > > > I've toyed with the idea of starting over, but that would be pretty stupid. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > --- In AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com, "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@> > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > Well, 30ml of ammonia in a 55G tank would have raised the ammonia to > > > > 14ppm so I'm surprised if you would ever get the ammonia eating > > > > bacteria growing at that level... at least from all of the fishless > > > > cycling threads that I've read over the years, if the ammonia even gets up > > > to the 6-7ppm level, it can > > > > cause problems. Even at 15ml in a 55G, that raises the ammonia level to > > > > 7ppm. There's a reason why the level we strive for is 4-5ppm IN EVERY > > > > FISHLESS CYCLING ARTICLE... because it has been found in countless > > > > fishless cycling experiments to be the optimum level. Too much lower > > > > and it takes a LOT longer or the tank ends up being cycled for a much > > > > smaller bioload. Too much higher and other problems develop... as you are > > > seeing. > > > > > > > > You should cut it back to 10ml at a time and then you can dose it > > > > every 12 hours with this level. This is all you need to do since a > > > > fully stocked and properly maintained aquarium only produces around > > > > 5ppm of ammonia each day, so building a larger nitrifying bacteria > > > > colony is simply not needed. They are just going to die off when you > > > > stock your tank, since it will not be producing enough ammonia to feed > > > > all of the extra bacteria colonies that you grew. > > > > > > > > Yes, overdoing it can be a bad thing. > > > > > > > > For example, when cooking, if it takes the 15 minutes at 400F to cook > > > > that small frozen pizza, then it must be better to raise the temp to > > > 1,200F... > > > > right? NOPE.. you end up with a SEVERELY overcooked pizza on the > > > > outside and maybe still mushy on the inside. Maybe that's not a good > > > > analogy but looking at a chemistry analogy... if drinking H2O is > > > > good.. then drinking > > > > H2O2 must be better since it has an extra Oxygen molecule.... right? > > > > NOPE AGAIN. H2O2 is Hydrogen Peroxide and while you might end up with > > > > nice white teeth, the rest of you won't fair so well. ;-) > > > > > > > > Now, back to your cycling. I need more data. When you are checking > > > > twice a day, what are the numbers for temperature, pH, ammonia, > > > > nitrite, nitrate, GH, KH? I know you said you will not be able to > > > > test until tomorrow, which is fine, but let us know ALL of the information > > > that is available. > > > > > > > > It's good that you are running JUST the Bio-Wheels. Are they spinning OK? > > > > They don't have to buzz like a top, just as long as they are turning > > > > on a regular basis. I have one that spins like crazy and another that > > > > just spins about one rotation a second or two but in either case, they > > > > work fine. Of course, I have a lot of other filter media as well. As > > > > far as your Marineland filter cartridges with the built-in carbon, you > > > > will probably want to modify them to add more filter floss and trash > > > > the carbon. See my blog article, "Filter Profile - Marineland > > > > Bio-Wheel" to see how I have cut open the black plastic screen that > > > > holds the carbon and then added more filter floss to add to the > > > > mechanical filtration. In a fully stocked tank, that thin blue filter > > > > floss pad that is on the Marineland filters will clog up quickly > > > > causing the water to overflow the filter cartridge and while that will > > > > still keep the tank cycled, due to the Bio-Wheels, you will not be > > > > getting proper mechanical filtration of any fish poop, detritus sucked up > > > by the filter. > > > > > > > > While at my blog, also read my article on proper "Filter Cleaning & > > > > Maintenance. .." so you do not repeat the mistakes made by so many > > > > newbies when they follow the directions from the filter companies... > > > > who are just trying to sell filters, not necessarily do the best thing > > > > for your fish. Of course, that is why Dr. Tim Hovanec invented the > > > > Bio-Wheel, so that they could tell people to trash the filter > > > > cartridges every few weeks without causing harm to the fish... but > > > > it's simply not needed unless you like to transfer money from your > > > > wallet to someone else's wallet... and if you like doing that, I'll > > > > give you my PayPal addy and you can transfer some to me too! ;-) > > > > > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com (Links to any articles > > > > referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically > > > > under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > > From: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com [mailto:AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com] > > > > On Behalf Of fishdudeut > > > > Sent: Wednesday, September 02, 2009 10:31 PM > > > > To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com > > > > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Fishless Cycle. > > > > > > > > I started out added 30 ML of ammonia and after seeing the VERY high > > > > results I cut it down to 20 and then down to 15. Been doing 15 every > > > since. > > > > > > > > I have been checking twice a day and I get zero ammonia and zero > > > > nitrite after about 12 hours. I can't do a set of test until tomorrow. > > > > I added 15 today at 3:30 and will check results again tomorrow and see > > > > what they are at. You said added to much would cause some bacteria issue. > > > > > > > > So over doing can be a bad thing? I would think if it was eating all > > > > the ammonia and the nitrite were at zero I thought that would be good, > > > > bit that's why I'm here to figure out what's happening wrong. > > > > > > > > They only media that's in the filets are the bio wheels. I have the > > > > Marineland filets and they have the pre filets with the carbon in them > > > > and the bio wheels so nothing is there but the bio wheels. > > > > > > > > The other think I have done to the water is topped off the tank. NO > > > > WATER changes. As far as the KH during the cycle I have not tested for > > > > that. I will run the tests tomorrow and report back. > > > > > > > > I'll post in the afternoon when I get home and give a full update on > > > > the levels as of tomorrow and I'll test for everything. > > > > > > > > Jack > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > --- In AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com, "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" > > > > <GoldLenny@> > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > The "Baseline Testing" was probably from my blog (URL in my sig). > > > > > Not very many sites even tell folks about finding their tap water > > > > > baseline. That's why I wrote that article quite a while back > > > > > (probably 2004) in another forum and then re-wrote it on my blog > > > > > when I started my blog in 2007. It's one of the most important > > > > > things to know when starting out so you know what kind of fish will > > > > > do best in your tap water so you don't have to think about using all > > > > > the other chemical fixes that are thrown at people for a quick fix. > > > > > It also lets you know if you do need some kind of supplement to > > > > > raise your KH level. It looks like your water stays pretty stable > > > > > out of the tap through the 48 hour baseline so that's good. And > > > > > your water parameters give you a broad spectrum of fish you can keep > > > > > although your water is a little on the hard side (GH = General > > > > > Hardness) but most fish adapt OK to that parameter, besides it > > > > > usually goes down in an > > > > established tank as all of the ecology starts to utilize many of the > > > > trace elements that make up the GH level. > > > > > > > > > > How much ammonia did you add to start with? 30ml is WAY too much to > > > > > be adding to your tank at one time. This is likely causing your > > > > > nitrite eating bacteria some problems. For a 55G, you should be > > > > > adding only 10ml per day... maybe twice a day, every 12 hours, once > > > > > the cycle is fully established, to keep the ammonia eating bacteria > > > > > at full capacity until you are ready for your fish. > > > > > > > > > > Do me a favor. Test your tank. Make sure you shake all bottles > > > > > more than the directions say and double check your test procedures > > > > > to make sure your numbers are as accurate as possible. Note all test > > > results. > > > > > Add 10ml of ammonia. Test immediately for ammonia and log results. > > > > > 12 hours later, test again and log results. If ammonia is down to > > > > > zero, add 10ml more of ammonia. 12 hours later (24 hours from > > > > > initial test), test again and log results. Give me those numbers. > > > > > Continue doing this daily regimen until we have your cycling figured > > > out. > > > > > > > > > > Another group member (can't recall their name right now) is having > > > > > similar issues with their fishless cycle. > > > > > > > > > > NO.. something is still not right with your fishless cycle. The > > > > > nitrates HAVE to climb as the end product of the nitrogen cycle. > > > > > Since yours are not climbing, something isn't right. > > > > > > > > > > Tell us more about your filtration? Exactly what kind of filter > > > > > media do you have in your filters? You mentioned not having the > > > > > carbon, which is good, but what other types of filter media do you have > > > in them? > > > > > > > > > > Have you done any PWC's (partial water changes) during the fishless > > > > > cycling process? If you haven't done any yet, GOOD! You are not > > > > > supposed to do them unless you have a low KH level, which you do not > > > > > have unless it's crashing in the fishless cycling tank. What have > > > > > your KH levels been during the fishless cycle? > > > > > > > > > > I'll wait for your reply before coming up with even more questions. > > > > > > > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > > > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com (Links to any articles > > > > > referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, > > > > > alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > > > From: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com > > > > > [mailto:AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com] > > > > > On Behalf Of fishdudeut > > > > > Sent: Wednesday, September 02, 2009 5:57 PM > > > > > To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com > > > > > Subject: [AquaticLife] Fishless Cycle. > > > > > > > > > > Fishless Cycle. > > > > > > > > > > Ok I have been in the process of doing a fishless cycle. I add the > > > > > ammonia and it goes off the chart above the highest level of the > > > > > test card (SUPER DARK GREEN). I let it set for a while and after > > > > > about 6 or 7 days I saw it start to drop. I can add 30 ML of > > > > > Ammonia to my 55 gallon tank and the next day (24 hours or so) it > > > > > will be at 0. I started testing for nitrite and it made it about to > > > > > 2 or 3 and now after about a week it's down to zero. My nitrate > > > > > have never spiked they are still between 5 and 10. saw them above 10 > > > > > one time but could have > > > > been a failed test. > > > > > > > > > > I have a tetra mast test kit. For Ammonia, Nitrite and PH as well as > > > > > GH and KH. I have an API test kit for Nitrates. > > > > > > > > > > I did run a base line on my tap water from a blog I found and can't > > > > > remember the ULR anymore. > > > > > > > > > > Straight from the tap. With API water Conditioner Ammonia 0 Nitrate > > > > > 0 Nitrate 0 Ph 7.5 GH 12 KH 4 > > > > > > > > > > Day 2 > > > > > Ammonia 0 > > > > > Nitrate 0 > > > > > Nitrate 0 > > > > > Ph 7.5 > > > > > GH 12 > > > > > KH 4 > > > > > > > > > > Day 3 > > > > > Ammonia 0 > > > > > Nitrate 0 - (A slightly darker shade, nit up to .025) Nitrate 0 Ph > > > > > 7.5 GH 12 KH 4 > > > > > > > > > > I'm concerned about the Nitrate never getting above 10. They are > > > > > the color between 5 and 10. I'll always read that they would be 100 > > > > > or something like that. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Background on the tank. > > > > > > > > > > I set it up fresh, bought the tank new and picked up a bio wheel > > > > > Dual filer off Crags List for $5 and had to replace the bio Wheels. > > > > > Added a 2nd Bio Wheel Single filter new and also did not add the > > > > > carbon I have read both ways and decided not to add it as of yet. > > > > > The gravel is new and I spend some time washing it to remove all the > > > > > bust and what not from it. The plants are fake. The heater is set > > > > > to 76 and runs between 76 and 77 depending on the time of day. > > > > > > > > > > I'm going to keep live breeders as well as some Cory cats. > > > > > > > > > > Questions. > > > > > > > > > > Everything I have read tells me when nitrite and ammonia are at O > > > > > and you add the ammonia to the tank to spike it and it's gone within > > > > > 24 hours the tank is cycled I have done this for the last 2 days and > > > > > both ammonia and nitrite come back as zero. I even took a water > > > > > sample to one of my LFS and had them test the water as well and they > > > > > reading also came back at 0 and the nitrate was at 5. > > > > > > > > > > So do I do the 70% water change or not worry about it since my > > > > > nitrates are low? I was to the understanding the reason behind this > > > > > was to remove the nitrates. Anyhow this is pretty long and I'm sure > > > > > I'll end up with more questions along that way. > > > > > > > > > > Jack. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 43125	From: biG poppa	Date: 9/5/2009
Subject: Re: My beloved clown loach is not normal

or two..lol.. yea he or she is in my 40g dont have and h tank sense i have to get rid of the spare 55g that i had seeting in my byard...i mean it lost alot of wait..it started when i lost the other clown loach i had do to an accident with a the fake decoration. all the other fish seam to be fine.. i took the filters did not clean them and the same for the gravel ... --- On Sat, 9/5/09, Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@...> wrote: From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@...> Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] My beloved clown loach is not normal To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Date: Saturday, September 5, 2009, 9:17 PM   There are either typos or something wrong with your test results.. most likely a typo or two. Normal nitrate test kits do not test down below 5ppm, unless you guess at the level between 0ppm and 5ppm. Further, you list nitrate twice, "nitrate are below 0.2" and again "nitrate are 0.0" so I'm going to guess that the first nitrate should have been nitrITE. Since you are showing both ammonia and nitrITE and 0.0 nitrates, this means your tank is not cycled and if it's been two weeks, it means your fish have possibly been going through the cycling process which is tough on fish. This could be your problem... or a secondary issue such as bacterial or parasitic that could have occurred as a result of the lowered immune system from the stress of the move and the cycling issues. What measures did you take when you moved to make sure you kept your filters alive with nitrifying bacteria? What size tank? What other fish? I'm guessing any other fish are OK since you didn't mention them. Do you have something to set up as a H-tank (Hospital tank)? A sick fish in with other fish actually incurs further stress because in the wild, a sick fish is more likely to be picked on or eaten by a predator. This is why sick fish will often hide. I know Clown Loaches are known for sleeping on their side where people have thought their fish died so I'm not as concerned about that but the noticeable loss of weight means it is either not eating or if it is eating, it could have an internal parasite that is eating all the food, causing the fish to start to waste away. Certain digestive tract bacterial infections can also cause diarrhea so that food flows through the fish so fast that it cannot absorb any of the nutrition from the food. If the fish is in an H-tank, you could observe better to see that it is eating and also pooping. Poop from a sick fish usually has certain tell-tale signs to help diagnose what might be wrong but this is hard to tell when the fish is in a big tank with other fish, decorations, plants, etc. The H-tank should only have one decoration or plant so the fish can hide a little to feel more secure but not enough to block your observation of the fish. Here's a site with poop descriptions. It's on a goldfish site but it's applicable to tropical fish as well, for the most part.. except for the coloration of the food. With goldfish, their digestive tract is so short that what comes out often looks like what went in because the food processed through so quickly. This is why goldfish are constantly looking for and constantly need lots of smaller meals rather than one or two big meals a day... especially as babies and juvis. I even feed my adult goldfish twice a day with a snack in between... otherwise they'd just snack on my plants. Their attitude is "A fish has got to eat!" Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com [mailto:AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com] On Behalf Of greychildren Sent: Saturday, September 05, 2009 6:21 PM To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com Subject: [AquaticLife] My beloved clown loach is not normal My clown loach who i had for the past year and a half has lost all the weight and looks like a stick very very skinny.. i don't know whats going on i know i moved about 2 weeks ago and had to transport and refill tanks... Ph is a stable 7.0 nitrate are below 0.2 ammonia is 0.1 nitrate are 0.0 water temp is Always keep at 77f....I don't know when its playing or dead...please help [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 43126	From: Dora Smith	Date: 9/5/2009
Subject: Re: Nataniel the Fish is sick

He's still sick. He just isn't as sick as he was. His fins are still clamped, not as badly but he's not spread them out once, and he still can't eat much. Yours, Dora Smith Austin, TX tiggernut24@... ----- Original Message ----- From: "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@...> To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Saturday, September 05, 2009 8:28 PM Subject: [Bulk] RE: [AquaticLife] Re: Nataniel the Fish is sick I got it the first time and replied. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Dora Smith Sent: Saturday, September 05, 2009 3:46 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Nataniel the Fish is sick Repost; first time it fell into hyperspace Yours, Dora Smith Austin, TX tiggernut24@... ----- Original Message ----- From: "Dora Smith" <tiggernut24@...> To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Saturday, September 05, 2009 2:54 PM Subject: Nataniel the Fish is sick >I think he OD'd on HBH betta colorbright flakes, but I can't be sure. I >first noticed yesterday that he spat out some of what he ate. Nataniel >usually scarfs down everything. I changed his water, bringing it up to >outside water temperature first because that's where the new water was, and >used identical water, and suddenly he was at death's door. Lying around >on the bottom of his tank, leaning over, breathing heavily. No interest >in food or much of anything else. I managed to get half a brine shrimp >into him - that stayed down. This morning his color is better and he's >swimming around. I added 3/4 tsp of epsom salts to his gallon and a half >of water, and he's had another half brine shrimp and some little bits of >green pea. I also added some Maracyn and Marcyn 2 to his water. > > Anyone have any other suggestions? > > Yours, > Dora Smith > Austin, TX > tiggernut24@... > ------------------------------------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the home page. Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com to receive the digest, which includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com for the No E-Mail option where you will still be able to read messages on the group and post replies. Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com to receive individual e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links ------------------------------------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the home page. Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com to receive the digest, which includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com for the No E-Mail option where you will still be able to read messages on the group and post replies. Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com to receive individual e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 43127	From: Dora Smith	Date: 9/5/2009
Subject: Re: [Bulk] RE: [AquaticLife] Re: Nataniel the Fish is sick

I saw your reply; didn't realize it was to the first post because I got it some time after I made the second post. :) Maybe Yahoo is playing its usual fun and games. But I don't believe the water change caused Nathaniel to get sick. I always do a total water change, his tank and the water were teh same water, and the same temperature. I think it possibly did provoke a reaction because he was sick. Yours, Dora Smith Austin, TX tiggernut24@... ----- Original Message ----- From: "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@...> To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Saturday, September 05, 2009 8:28 PM Subject: [Bulk] RE: [AquaticLife] Re: Nataniel the Fish is sick I got it the first time and replied. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Dora Smith Sent: Saturday, September 05, 2009 3:46 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Nataniel the Fish is sick Repost; first time it fell into hyperspace Yours, Dora Smith Austin, TX tiggernut24@... ----- Original Message ----- From: "Dora Smith" <tiggernut24@...> To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Saturday, September 05, 2009 2:54 PM Subject: Nataniel the Fish is sick >I think he OD'd on HBH betta colorbright flakes, but I can't be sure. I >first noticed yesterday that he spat out some of what he ate. Nataniel >usually scarfs down everything. I changed his water, bringing it up to >outside water temperature first because that's where the new water was, and >used identical water, and suddenly he was at death's door. Lying around >on the bottom of his tank, leaning over, breathing heavily. No interest >in food or much of anything else. I managed to get half a brine shrimp >into him - that stayed down. This morning his color is better and he's >swimming around. I added 3/4 tsp of epsom salts to his gallon and a half >of water, and he's had another half brine shrimp and some little bits of >green pea. I also added some Maracyn and Marcyn 2 to his water. > > Anyone have any other suggestions? > > Yours, > Dora Smith > Austin, TX > tiggernut24@... > ------------------------------------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the home page. Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com to receive the digest, which includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com for the No E-Mail option where you will still be able to read messages on the group and post replies. Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com to receive individual e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links ------------------------------------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the home page. Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com to receive the digest, which includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com for the No E-Mail option where you will still be able to read messages on the group and post replies. Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com to receive individual e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 43128	From: Dora Smith	Date: 9/5/2009
Subject: Re: Nataniel the Fish is sick

Thought I'd better send this again without the Bulk label. Yahoo puts alot of both my own and Lenny's posts in the Bulk mail folder. Not why I don't see them when I read the mail in chronological instead of subject order, though. The bulk mail downloads into my inbox along with my Yahoo inbox. Yours, Dora Smith Austin, TX tiggernut24@... ----- Original Message ----- From: "Dora Smith" <tiggernut24@...> To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Saturday, September 05, 2009 10:24 PM Subject: Re: [Bulk] RE: [AquaticLife] Re: Nataniel the Fish is sick >I saw your reply; didn't realize it was to the first post because I got it >some time after I made the second post. :) > > Maybe Yahoo is playing its usual fun and games. > > But I don't believe the water change caused Nathaniel to get sick. I > always do a total water change, his tank and the water were teh same > water, and the same temperature. I think it possibly did provoke a > reaction because he was sick. > Yours, > Dora Smith > Austin, TX > tiggernut24@... > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@...> > To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com> > Sent: Saturday, September 05, 2009 8:28 PM > Subject: [Bulk] RE: [AquaticLife] Re: Nataniel the Fish is sick > > > I got it the first time and replied. > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right > side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) > > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On > Behalf Of Dora Smith > Sent: Saturday, September 05, 2009 3:46 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Nataniel the Fish is sick > > Repost; first time it fell into hyperspace > > Yours, > Dora Smith > Austin, TX > tiggernut24@... > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Dora Smith" <tiggernut24@...> > To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com> > Sent: Saturday, September 05, 2009 2:54 PM > Subject: Nataniel the Fish is sick > > >>I think he OD'd on HBH betta colorbright flakes, but I can't be sure. I >>first noticed yesterday that he spat out some of what he ate. Nataniel >>usually scarfs down everything. I changed his water, bringing it up to >>outside water temperature first because that's where the new water was, >>and > >>used identical water, and suddenly he was at death's door. Lying around >>on the bottom of his tank, leaning over, breathing heavily. No interest >>in food or much of anything else. I managed to get half a brine shrimp >>into him - that stayed down. This morning his color is better and he's >>swimming around. I added 3/4 tsp of epsom salts to his gallon and a half >>of water, and he's had another half brine shrimp and some little bits of >>green pea. I also added some Maracyn and Marcyn 2 to his water. >> >> Anyone have any other suggestions? >> >> Yours, >> Dora Smith >> Austin, TX >> tiggernut24@... >> > > > > ------------------------------------ > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. > ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> > PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to > the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the > SUBJECT > LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- > <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. > > If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of unsubscribing, you > can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the > home page. > > Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com to receive the digest, which > includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email > > Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com for the No E-Mail option where > you will still be able to read messages on the group and post replies. > > Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com to receive individual > e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > > ------------------------------------ > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. > ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> > PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to > the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the > SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- > <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. > > If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of unsubscribing, you > can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the > home page. > > Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com to receive the digest, which > includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email > > Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com for the No E-Mail option where > you will still be able to read messages on the group and post replies. > > Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com to receive individual > e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links > > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 43129	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 9/5/2009
Subject: Re: [Bulk] RE: [AquaticLife] Re: Nataniel the Fish is sick

100% water changes are always risky unless they are being done on a continuous flow basis, like how a stream/river works. If done on a daily basis, that would be better than if done on a weekly basis and waiting even longer would make things worse. The water in a an aquarium, after a week has gone through a LOT of changes that we usually do not test for. Even if the pH, temperature, GH & KH levels were identical, according to our basic testing abilities, which is unlikely after the water has been in a tank for a week, there are other differences that we do not test for with our basic testing kits. These other differences include DOC's (Dissolved Organic Compounds), different mineral and macro nutrient levels, since the ecosystem of the tank would have used up some of the previous minerals and macro nutrients that were added with the last PWC, etc. From the last water change, the fish slowly acclimated to these changing values, as they occurred slowly throughout the week. This means that when you do a 100% water change, the fish has to immediately acclimate to the new values instead of slowly acclimating to them. While a healthy fish may not be overcome by even a slight differences, a fish that isn't 100% could be affected, as you may have seen in your case. If these 100% water changes only happen once in a while, the fish may be able to handle them and recover fully but if the fish is subjected to these kinds of osmotic changes on a regular basis, they will either grow stronger from it (such as fish in the wild that are subjected to regular tidal flows that dramatically change their water parameters on a daily basis)... or a weaker fish can succumb to these osmotic changes. Making a fish's osmoregulatory system work hard also puts more work on the fish's kidneys and other internal organs tied to the osmoregulatory system, and like our own kidneys, they are only able to filter out a certain amount of waste before they slowly start to get damaged and affect our overall health. This is why I always talk about doing no more than a 25% PWC, so that we are not changing the fishes water too much, too fast, to avoid putting these kinds of added stressors on our fish. In some situations, we may not be able to do more than a 10% PWC, if the incoming water is dramatically different than the tank's water but for most people, a 25% PWC is a safe amount to change without dramatically changing the water parameters of the tank. Since your fish is still looking under the weather, now that it has been 24 hours since you added the Epsom Salts (which would have added further work to his osmoregulatory system to acclimate to the increased magnesium and hardness levels in the water), start doing daily 10% PWC's to slowly bring his water back to normal. After a few 10% PWC's, you can up it to 25% and after a few of them, the water should be back to normal. If it was constipation, the Epsom Salts would have either worked (or not) but if he's eating (including green pea "meat") and not showing any other signs of constipation (bloating, etc.), then it probably wasn't constipation. Do you see him pooping? What does it look like? Once you have the water back to normal, give him a day or two of rest and see how he is doing and let us know before changing to a new treatment. In the future, please try to do more frequent smaller PWC's instead of a less frequent 100% change. My experience and from reading the tank and baseline water parameters from 100's of other fishkeepers over the years has led me to this strong opinion of doing no more than 25% to 33% at a time, with 25% being an even safer level. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Dora Smith Sent: Saturday, September 05, 2009 10:24 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [Bulk] RE: [AquaticLife] Re: Nataniel the Fish is sick I saw your reply; didn't realize it was to the first post because I got it some time after I made the second post. :) Maybe Yahoo is playing its usual fun and games. But I don't believe the water change caused Nathaniel to get sick. I always do a total water change, his tank and the water were teh same water, and the same temperature. I think it possibly did provoke a reaction because he was sick. Yours, Dora Smith Austin, TX tiggernut24@... ----- Original Message ----- From: "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@...> To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Saturday, September 05, 2009 8:28 PM Subject: [Bulk] RE: [AquaticLife] Re: Nataniel the Fish is sick I got it the first time and replied. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Dora Smith Sent: Saturday, September 05, 2009 3:46 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Nataniel the Fish is sick Repost; first time it fell into hyperspace Yours, Dora Smith Austin, TX tiggernut24@... ----- Original Message ----- From: "Dora Smith" <tiggernut24@...> To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Saturday, September 05, 2009 2:54 PM Subject: Nataniel the Fish is sick >I think he OD'd on HBH betta colorbright flakes, but I can't be sure. I >first noticed yesterday that he spat out some of what he ate. Nataniel >usually scarfs down everything. I changed his water, bringing it up to >outside water temperature first because that's where the new water was, and >used identical water, and suddenly he was at death's door. Lying around >on the bottom of his tank, leaning over, breathing heavily. No interest >in food or much of anything else. I managed to get half a brine shrimp >into him - that stayed down. This morning his color is better and he's >swimming around. I added 3/4 tsp of epsom salts to his gallon and a half >of water, and he's had another half brine shrimp and some little bits of >green pea. I also added some Maracyn and Marcyn 2 to his water. > > Anyone have any other suggestions? > > Yours, > Dora Smith > Austin, TX > tiggernut24@...

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 43130	From: kl_whitney	Date: 9/6/2009
Subject: Will have to delay getting a betta.....

I found out on Wednesday that my broken foot was getting worse all the time it was feeling better. I mean, my pain was nonexistent and yet the fracture had spread further apart. UGH! So they had me go under the knife on Friday, and I'm stuck at home recuperating. I can't put weight on the (insert expletive of choice here) foot until early October! If you folks have any desire to know what I had the docs fix, google "Jones Fracture"...it's so commonly operated on it even has a name! I'll rent a motorized scooter to get around school (hope I can get one that's small, easy to manuver, and stable! and hope that the insurance will cover most of the rental!), but I'm probably taking a little over a week off. Which is REALLY hard at college cause the courses are so fast paced. I refuse to put an animal through the hardship of a guardian who can't put weight on her right foot. So I will not be getting a betta until I can walk again, probably mid-October. Anyone here who is into prayer: I would like prayers that I could get to school ASAP and recover well. Anyway, thanks for all the advice on bettas, just wanted to let you folks know what's going on with me now. -Kathy

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 43131	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 9/6/2009
Subject: Re: Will have to delay getting a betta.....

Kathy, Boy, what a chicken <g>. I know several people with various disabilities who maintain fish. One of the best fish persons back in the '60's was a victim of polio and needed an iron lung to breathe (look up Braz Walker). I myself was on crutches for 8 months one year, and without them only had a leg to stand on, yet I took care of three tanks, including getting them back into shape after spending a month in the hospital so they could get me out on crutches (and, I am sure they were glad to see me go, I'm not a real good patient). So, I am sure you can manage to get something set up and, at least, start doing a fishless cycle in it before you get both your feet back under you. \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of kl_whitney Sent: Sunday, September 06, 2009 11:21 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Will have to delay getting a betta..... I found out on Wednesday that my broken foot was getting worse all the time it was feeling better. I mean, my pain was nonexistent and yet the fracture had spread further apart. UGH! So they had me go under the knife on Friday, and I'm stuck at home recuperating. I can't put weight on the (insert expletive of choice here) foot until early October! If you folks have any desire to know what I had the docs fix, google "Jones Fracture"...it's so commonly operated on it even has a name! I'll rent a motorized scooter to get around school (hope I can get one that's small, easy to manuver, and stable! and hope that the insurance will cover most of the rental!), but I'm probably taking a little over a week off. Which is REALLY hard at college cause the courses are so fast paced. I refuse to put an animal through the hardship of a guardian who can't put weight on her right foot. So I will not be getting a betta until I can walk again, probably mid-October. Anyone here who is into prayer: I would like prayers that I could get to school ASAP and recover well. Anyway, thanks for all the advice on bettas, just wanted to let you folks know what's going on with me now. -Kathy

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 43132	From: Dora Smith	Date: 9/6/2009
Subject: Re: Will have to delay getting a betta.....

Sorry to hear that. I hope you'll be enjoying your fish when you do return to school! Yours, Dora Smith Austin, TX tiggernut24@... ----- Original Message ----- From: "kl_whitney" <kl_whitney@...> To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Sunday, September 06, 2009 10:20 AM Subject: [AquaticLife] Will have to delay getting a betta..... I found out on Wednesday that my broken foot was getting worse all the time it was feeling better. I mean, my pain was nonexistent and yet the fracture had spread further apart. UGH! So they had me go under the knife on Friday, and I'm stuck at home recuperating. I can't put weight on the (insert expletive of choice here) foot until early October! If you folks have any desire to know what I had the docs fix, google "Jones Fracture"...it's so commonly operated on it even has a name! I'll rent a motorized scooter to get around school (hope I can get one that's small, easy to manuver, and stable! and hope that the insurance will cover most of the rental!), but I'm probably taking a little over a week off. Which is REALLY hard at college cause the courses are so fast paced. I refuse to put an animal through the hardship of a guardian who can't put weight on her right foot. So I will not be getting a betta until I can walk again, probably mid-October. Anyone here who is into prayer: I would like prayers that I could get to school ASAP and recover well. Anyway, thanks for all the advice on bettas, just wanted to let you folks know what's going on with me now. -Kathy ------------------------------------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the home page. Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com to receive the digest, which includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com for the No E-Mail option where you will still be able to read messages on the group and post replies. Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com to receive individual e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 43133	From: fishdudeut	Date: 9/6/2009
Subject: Re: Fishless Cycle.

Well I think I found Te problem. I did a full set of test today and Ammonia 0 - Nitrite 0+ - Nitrate 10 - PH 6.0 - KH 1.0 + GH 15. I have never and that low of PH before and yes I test with both test kits. I test my tap water KH and it was 6. I also have a 55 gallon drum I have for water and tested it and it was 6 as well. It's been there for about 2 weeks. Tank water is 1 maybe 2. It was very faint in the colors. Should I do a large water change or what? The PH is freakish low as well. The PH of tap water is 7.6. --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@...> wrote: > > Yes, I shake all of my reagent bottles at least a few shakes. The ones that > instruct to shake more, I double that. Same with the test tubes. If they > say to just shake one or twice, I do three or four... just to make sure the > solution is mixed properly once it's in the test tube as well. > > As long as it looks like your ammonia is going down to 0.0ppm every 12 > hours, then keep dosing every 12 hours. No need in possibly starving some > of your ammonia eating bacteria. Technically, in our tanks with fish, they > are being fed 24/7 instead of getting 5ppm all at once and then going down > to 0.0ppm but it would be a lot of extra work to start feeding the bacteria > every hour or two. For all of the Fishless Cycling that I've done and > helped others with, usually feeding the bacteria twice a day is all that is > needed. > > Another thing I thought about... which shouldn't be as much of issue with > Bio-Wheels but it sometimes is with other filter media, is making sure > there's enough O2 in the water. Either lower the water level a little so > the waterfalls from the filters causes more splashing and surface agitation, > which will raise the O2 level in the water. The whole purpose of the > Bio-Wheel is that it is a semi-wet-dry filter so that the wet pleated filter > media is supposed to get plenty of aeration but I guess it wouldn't hurt to > add more O2 into the tank water as well. Nitrifying bacteria need LOTS of > O2 in their water. > > And remember, if you do decide to go with Dr. Tim's or Safe Start, you would > have to do a large 90% water change before starting with a new plan. Since > you indicate you don't mind another week, you probably didn't need that > reminder but I wanted to just in case you get frustrated. > > And definitely test your KH in the tank. There's always a chance that it is > too low and that could be causing problems as the bacteria also need > carbonates to survive. I'm pretty sure I mentioned that early on but you > could have missed it with all the other information overload. > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right > side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) > > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On > Behalf Of fishdudeut > Sent: Saturday, September 05, 2009 6:28 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Fishless Cycle. > > Sounds good really don't want to go the safe start way. I've read mix > reviews and being into the fishless cycle so long I figure it's got to be > getting close. > > I like the plastic tubes better than the round glass one as well. Some time > I do see it not as easy to get the levels right the curve in the water > level. I'll have to try doubling next time and see if by some change I get > different results. > > I'll start the KH testing as well. Add ammonia every day and check over > other. I'm wondering if all the test bottles should be shaken? I read on > here that shake the nitrate for 2 minutes and I have been doing that and > then shaking the final collection in the tube for 1 minute. Do you shake all > your test solutions (the bottle before added the drops)? > > I have read the direction a million times. The Nitrate with API pretty easy > to remember, but I check since PH is also blue want to make sure I'm adding > the right number of drops. > > I have been adding ammonia ever 12 hours should I just keep doing that or > just add one time a day? > > I plan on another week. Heck if it takes two that's cool, just wish the dang > nitrates would start climbing even a little would be nice. > > Again sorry for all the stupid typos and thanks for all the help. You're > help is greatly appreciated. > > Jack. >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 43134	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 9/6/2009
Subject: Re: Fishless Cycle.

Do a 25% PWC each day for the next few days. You don't want to overly shock your nitrifying bacteria colonies. That will raise both the pH and KH and get your cycling going again. This is why I asked about the KH level a while back. I figured that was what happened due to the overdosing of so much ammonia early on. Once you do the series of PWC's, after each one, test your ammonia and dose as needed to bring it up to 4-5ppm, then dose your ammonia as needed after that and you should see your cycling start to take off. Check your KH every few days but you should be OK once you do these three PWC's. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of fishdudeut Sent: Sunday, September 06, 2009 5:35 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Fishless Cycle. Well I think I found Te problem. I did a full set of test today and Ammonia 0 - Nitrite 0+ - Nitrate 10 - PH 6.0 - KH 1.0 + GH 15. I have never and that low of PH before and yes I test with both test kits. I test my tap water KH and it was 6. I also have a 55 gallon drum I have for water and tested it and it was 6 as well. It's been there for about 2 weeks. Tank water is 1 maybe 2. It was very faint in the colors. Should I do a large water change or what? The PH is freakish low as well. The PH of tap water is 7.6. --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@...> wrote: > > Yes, I shake all of my reagent bottles at least a few shakes. The ones that > instruct to shake more, I double that. Same with the test tubes. If they > say to just shake one or twice, I do three or four... just to make > sure the solution is mixed properly once it's in the test tube as well. > > As long as it looks like your ammonia is going down to 0.0ppm every 12 > hours, then keep dosing every 12 hours. No need in possibly starving > some of your ammonia eating bacteria. Technically, in our tanks with > fish, they are being fed 24/7 instead of getting 5ppm all at once and > then going down to 0.0ppm but it would be a lot of extra work to start > feeding the bacteria every hour or two. For all of the Fishless > Cycling that I've done and helped others with, usually feeding the > bacteria twice a day is all that is needed. > > Another thing I thought about... which shouldn't be as much of issue > with Bio-Wheels but it sometimes is with other filter media, is making > sure there's enough O2 in the water. Either lower the water level a > little so the waterfalls from the filters causes more splashing and > surface agitation, which will raise the O2 level in the water. The > whole purpose of the Bio-Wheel is that it is a semi-wet-dry filter so > that the wet pleated filter media is supposed to get plenty of > aeration but I guess it wouldn't hurt to add more O2 into the tank > water as well. Nitrifying bacteria need LOTS of > O2 in their water. > > And remember, if you do decide to go with Dr. Tim's or Safe Start, you > would have to do a large 90% water change before starting with a new > plan. Since you indicate you don't mind another week, you probably > didn't need that reminder but I wanted to just in case you get frustrated. > > And definitely test your KH in the tank. There's always a chance that > it is too low and that could be causing problems as the bacteria also > need carbonates to survive. I'm pretty sure I mentioned that early on > but you could have missed it with all the other information overload. > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles > referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically > under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) > > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] > On Behalf Of fishdudeut > Sent: Saturday, September 05, 2009 6:28 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Fishless Cycle. > > Sounds good really don't want to go the safe start way. I've read mix > reviews and being into the fishless cycle so long I figure it's got to > be getting close. > > I like the plastic tubes better than the round glass one as well. Some > time I do see it not as easy to get the levels right the curve in the > water level. I'll have to try doubling next time and see if by some > change I get different results. > > I'll start the KH testing as well. Add ammonia every day and check > over other. I'm wondering if all the test bottles should be shaken? I > read on here that shake the nitrate for 2 minutes and I have been > doing that and then shaking the final collection in the tube for 1 > minute. Do you shake all your test solutions (the bottle before added the drops)? > > I have read the direction a million times. The Nitrate with API pretty > easy to remember, but I check since PH is also blue want to make sure > I'm adding the right number of drops. > > I have been adding ammonia ever 12 hours should I just keep doing that > or just add one time a day? > > I plan on another week. Heck if it takes two that's cool, just wish > the dang nitrates would start climbing even a little would be nice. > > Again sorry for all the stupid typos and thanks for all the help. > You're help is greatly appreciated. > > Jack.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 43135	From: Dora Smith	Date: 9/6/2009
Subject: Re: Will have to delay getting a betta.....

I thought it over, and she's likely to be right. If she keeps that betta in any sizeable container, she'll have to carry it and/or buckets of water around, and from experience I can testify that you plain can't do that on crutches - and I COULD put weight on the broken leg. If she hasn't got someone willing to help care for the fish, it makes sense to wait. It's also one more thing to carry back and forth if she's gonig to spend some time at home and then go back to the dorm. You know that broken bone will tkae a minimum of two months to heal, and this one is doing anything but healing straightforwardly. Now, if she'd said she was going to spend the next month in bed, THEN I'd have an issue with her. You can always be a doll and go to her house and tend the betta for her. VBG. Yours, Dora Smith Austin, TX tiggernut24@... ----- Original Message ----- From: "Steve Szabo" <steve@...> To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Sunday, September 06, 2009 1:00 PM Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Will have to delay getting a betta..... Kathy, Boy, what a chicken <g>. I know several people with various disabilities who maintain fish. One of the best fish persons back in the '60's was a victim of polio and needed an iron lung to breathe (look up Braz Walker). I myself was on crutches for 8 months one year, and without them only had a leg to stand on, yet I took care of three tanks, including getting them back into shape after spending a month in the hospital so they could get me out on crutches (and, I am sure they were glad to see me go, I'm not a real good patient). So, I am sure you can manage to get something set up and, at least, start doing a fishless cycle in it before you get both your feet back under you. \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of kl_whitney Sent: Sunday, September 06, 2009 11:21 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Will have to delay getting a betta..... I found out on Wednesday that my broken foot was getting worse all the time it was feeling better. I mean, my pain was nonexistent and yet the fracture had spread further apart. UGH! So they had me go under the knife on Friday, and I'm stuck at home recuperating. I can't put weight on the (insert expletive of choice here) foot until early October! If you folks have any desire to know what I had the docs fix, google "Jones Fracture"...it's so commonly operated on it even has a name! I'll rent a motorized scooter to get around school (hope I can get one that's small, easy to manuver, and stable! and hope that the insurance will cover most of the rental!), but I'm probably taking a little over a week off. Which is REALLY hard at college cause the courses are so fast paced. I refuse to put an animal through the hardship of a guardian who can't put weight on her right foot. So I will not be getting a betta until I can walk again, probably mid-October. Anyone here who is into prayer: I would like prayers that I could get to school ASAP and recover well. Anyway, thanks for all the advice on bettas, just wanted to let you folks know what's going on with me now. -Kathy ------------------------------------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the home page. Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com to receive the digest, which includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com for the No E-Mail option where you will still be able to read messages on the group and post replies. Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com to receive individual e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 43136	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 9/6/2009
Subject: Re: Will have to delay getting a betta.....

Dora, You aren't paying attention. I said I was on crutches for 8 months, and you can carry water while using crutches, just not as much as if you were not on crutches. Second point is that she has one of those motorized chairs. She does her own water changes. It is quite possible for Kathy to get her bowl, and start a fishless cycle, which, actually, does not involve water changes--just the initial filling, while she is temporarily footless. \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Dora Smith Sent: Sunday, September 06, 2009 9:59 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Will have to delay getting a betta..... I thought it over, and she's likely to be right. If she keeps that betta in any sizeable container, she'll have to carry it and/or buckets of water around, and from experience I can testify that you plain can't do that on crutches - and I COULD put weight on the broken leg. If she hasn't got someone willing to help care for the fish, it makes sense to wait. It's also one more thing to carry back and forth if she's gonig to spend some time at home and then go back to the dorm. You know that broken bone will tkae a minimum of two months to heal, and this one is doing anything but healing straightforwardly. Now, if she'd said she was going to spend the next month in bed, THEN I'd have an issue with her. You can always be a doll and go to her house and tend the betta for her. VBG. Yours, Dora Smith Austin, TX tiggernut24@... ----- Original Message ----- From: "Steve Szabo" <steve@...> To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Sunday, September 06, 2009 1:00 PM Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Will have to delay getting a betta..... Kathy, Boy, what a chicken <g>. I know several people with various disabilities who maintain fish. One of the best fish persons back in the '60's was a victim of polio and needed an iron lung to breathe (look up Braz Walker). I myself was on crutches for 8 months one year, and without them only had a leg to stand on, yet I took care of three tanks, including getting them back into shape after spending a month in the hospital so they could get me out on crutches (and, I am sure they were glad to see me go, I'm not a real good patient). So, I am sure you can manage to get something set up and, at least, start doing a fishless cycle in it before you get both your feet back under you. \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of kl_whitney Sent: Sunday, September 06, 2009 11:21 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Will have to delay getting a betta..... I found out on Wednesday that my broken foot was getting worse all the time it was feeling better. I mean, my pain was nonexistent and yet the fracture had spread further apart. UGH! So they had me go under the knife on Friday, and I'm stuck at home recuperating. I can't put weight on the (insert expletive of choice here) foot until early October! If you folks have any desire to know what I had the docs fix, google "Jones Fracture"...it's so commonly operated on it even has a name! I'll rent a motorized scooter to get around school (hope I can get one that's small, easy to manuver, and stable! and hope that the insurance will cover most of the rental!), but I'm probably taking a little over a week off. Which is REALLY hard at college cause the courses are so fast paced. I refuse to put an animal through the hardship of a guardian who can't put weight on her right foot. So I will not be getting a betta until I can walk again, probably mid-October. Anyone here who is into prayer: I would like prayers that I could get to school ASAP and recover well. Anyway, thanks for all the advice on bettas, just wanted to let you folks know what's going on with me now. -Kathy

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 43137	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 9/6/2009
Subject: Re: Will have to delay getting a betta.....

I don't think she was planning on fishless cycling. With a single juvi Betta in 4G bowl, and using live plants to balance out the ecology, I don't think cycling was really going to be much of an issue, if any at all. The live plants will also be bringing some nitrifying bacteria growing on them which will eventually spread to the gravel and bowl walls as well. She wasn't going to have any kind of filtration so I'm not sure how a fishless cycle would work out anyhow. I've never seen anyone try to fishless cycle without a filter to circulate and aerate the water. I think if one was going to try it, you would at least need an air pump with some tubing shoved down into the gravel to get water flowing through the gravel in order to try and get the nitrifying bacteria going, circulate the water and aerate the water. In a stagnant bowl, I'm really not sure how it would work. That's why my thoughts were to use live plants to make the bowl's ecology more balanced. The Betta wouldn't really like a filter going in that small of a container anyhow as it wouldn't have any undisturbed surface area to build it's bubble nest. When I had a 10G with a Betta, I had the small 5G rated HOB on one end of the tank with some anacharis floating in the middle of the tank so the other end has relatively still surface area so he could build his bubble nests at will. The use of SeaChem's Prime as a dechlor and a half a pinch of salt for every 4G's of water changed, would also be a safe option just to make sure that any ammonia/nitrite not handled by the plants are made non-toxic. We can discuss the use of salt when the time comes so that she doesn't build up too high of a salt level. Bettas are probably at a much lower risk of nitrite poisoning anyhow since they do not use their gills as much for breathing. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Steve Szabo Sent: Sunday, September 06, 2009 9:16 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Will have to delay getting a betta..... Dora, You aren't paying attention. I said I was on crutches for 8 months, and you can carry water while using crutches, just not as much as if you were not on crutches. Second point is that she has one of those motorized chairs. She does her own water changes. It is quite possible for Kathy to get her bowl, and start a fishless cycle, which, actually, does not involve water changes--just the initial filling, while she is temporarily footless. \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Dora Smith Sent: Sunday, September 06, 2009 9:59 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Will have to delay getting a betta..... I thought it over, and she's likely to be right. If she keeps that betta in any sizeable container, she'll have to carry it and/or buckets of water around, and from experience I can testify that you plain can't do that on crutches - and I COULD put weight on the broken leg. If she hasn't got someone willing to help care for the fish, it makes sense to wait. It's also one more thing to carry back and forth if she's gonig to spend some time at home and then go back to the dorm. You know that broken bone will tkae a minimum of two months to heal, and this one is doing anything but healing straightforwardly. Now, if she'd said she was going to spend the next month in bed, THEN I'd have an issue with her. You can always be a doll and go to her house and tend the betta for her. VBG. Yours, Dora Smith Austin, TX tiggernut24@... ----- Original Message ----- From: "Steve Szabo" <steve@...> To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Sunday, September 06, 2009 1:00 PM Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Will have to delay getting a betta..... Kathy, Boy, what a chicken <g>. I know several people with various disabilities who maintain fish. One of the best fish persons back in the '60's was a victim of polio and needed an iron lung to breathe (look up Braz Walker). I myself was on crutches for 8 months one year, and without them only had a leg to stand on, yet I took care of three tanks, including getting them back into shape after spending a month in the hospital so they could get me out on crutches (and, I am sure they were glad to see me go, I'm not a real good patient). So, I am sure you can manage to get something set up and, at least, start doing a fishless cycle in it before you get both your feet back under you. \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of kl_whitney Sent: Sunday, September 06, 2009 11:21 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Will have to delay getting a betta..... I found out on Wednesday that my broken foot was getting worse all the time it was feeling better. I mean, my pain was nonexistent and yet the fracture had spread further apart. UGH! So they had me go under the knife on Friday, and I'm stuck at home recuperating. I can't put weight on the (insert expletive of choice here) foot until early October! If you folks have any desire to know what I had the docs fix, google "Jones Fracture"...it's so commonly operated on it even has a name! I'll rent a motorized scooter to get around school (hope I can get one that's small, easy to manuver, and stable! and hope that the insurance will cover most of the rental!), but I'm probably taking a little over a week off. Which is REALLY hard at college cause the courses are so fast paced. I refuse to put an animal through the hardship of a guardian who can't put weight on her right foot. So I will not be getting a betta until I can walk again, probably mid-October. Anyone here who is into prayer: I would like prayers that I could get to school ASAP and recover well. Anyway, thanks for all the advice on bettas, just wanted to let you folks know what's going on with me now. -Kathy

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 43138	From: Heather	Date: 9/6/2009
Subject: Hi there.

My name is Heather and Im located in IL and I was a part of this group a while back but got out of fish and aquariums for a while due to lack of time but am back and starting over. At the moment I have a 10 gallon planted tank with an albino clawed frog in it and a 29 gallon also with live plants with 4 platies 3 female and one male and 5 huge beautiful guppies whom 4 are females and just had babies (TONS of babies) and a pleco. I am going to go and pick up my 65 gallon this coming week and then the frog will have the 29 gallon and the fish will have the 65. I do plan to add more fish in time but for now I am happy with what I have.  I am looking to buy a couple fire bellied newts but am having a very hard time finding any online or any where close to me. I have seen a couple of sites selling them but they seem fishy (pun intended...haha) and I do not trust purchasing from them.  Anyway happy to be back in the group and ecstatic to once again have aquariums and fish and of course my beloved frog whose name is Frog by the way (I know original right...lol). Huge Hugs~Heather http://www.youravon.com/hbroschayt [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 43139	From: Dora Smith	Date: 9/7/2009
Subject: Re: [Bulk] RE: [AquaticLife] Will have to delay getting a betta.....

Well I can't. Yours, Dora Smith Austin, TX tiggernut24@... ----- Original Message ----- From: "Steve Szabo" <steve@...> To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Sunday, September 06, 2009 9:16 PM Subject: [Bulk] RE: [AquaticLife] Will have to delay getting a betta..... Dora, You aren't paying attention. I said I was on crutches for 8 months, and you can carry water while using crutches, just not as much as if you were not on crutches. Second point is that she has one of those motorized chairs. She does her own water changes. It is quite possible for Kathy to get her bowl, and start a fishless cycle, which, actually, does not involve water changes--just the initial filling, while she is temporarily footless. \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Dora Smith Sent: Sunday, September 06, 2009 9:59 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Will have to delay getting a betta..... I thought it over, and she's likely to be right. If she keeps that betta in any sizeable container, she'll have to carry it and/or buckets of water around, and from experience I can testify that you plain can't do that on crutches - and I COULD put weight on the broken leg. If she hasn't got someone willing to help care for the fish, it makes sense to wait. It's also one more thing to carry back and forth if she's gonig to spend some time at home and then go back to the dorm. You know that broken bone will tkae a minimum of two months to heal, and this one is doing anything but healing straightforwardly. Now, if she'd said she was going to spend the next month in bed, THEN I'd have an issue with her. You can always be a doll and go to her house and tend the betta for her. VBG. Yours, Dora Smith Austin, TX tiggernut24@... ----- Original Message ----- From: "Steve Szabo" <steve@...> To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Sunday, September 06, 2009 1:00 PM Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Will have to delay getting a betta..... Kathy, Boy, what a chicken <g>. I know several people with various disabilities who maintain fish. One of the best fish persons back in the '60's was a victim of polio and needed an iron lung to breathe (look up Braz Walker). I myself was on crutches for 8 months one year, and without them only had a leg to stand on, yet I took care of three tanks, including getting them back into shape after spending a month in the hospital so they could get me out on crutches (and, I am sure they were glad to see me go, I'm not a real good patient). So, I am sure you can manage to get something set up and, at least, start doing a fishless cycle in it before you get both your feet back under you. \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of kl_whitney Sent: Sunday, September 06, 2009 11:21 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Will have to delay getting a betta..... I found out on Wednesday that my broken foot was getting worse all the time it was feeling better. I mean, my pain was nonexistent and yet the fracture had spread further apart. UGH! So they had me go under the knife on Friday, and I'm stuck at home recuperating. I can't put weight on the (insert expletive of choice here) foot until early October! If you folks have any desire to know what I had the docs fix, google "Jones Fracture"...it's so commonly operated on it even has a name! I'll rent a motorized scooter to get around school (hope I can get one that's small, easy to manuver, and stable! and hope that the insurance will cover most of the rental!), but I'm probably taking a little over a week off. Which is REALLY hard at college cause the courses are so fast paced. I refuse to put an animal through the hardship of a guardian who can't put weight on her right foot. So I will not be getting a betta until I can walk again, probably mid-October. Anyone here who is into prayer: I would like prayers that I could get to school ASAP and recover well. Anyway, thanks for all the advice on bettas, just wanted to let you folks know what's going on with me now. -Kathy ------------------------------------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the home page. Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com to receive the digest, which includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com for the No E-Mail option where you will still be able to read messages on the group and post replies. Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com to receive individual e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 43140	From: fishdudeut	Date: 9/7/2009
Subject: Aquarium Heater

I have a 55 gallon tank and I bought a Pen-Plax 300 Watt heater it said on the package it was rated for a 70 gallon aquarium. That's 4.3 watts a gallon so I was thinking for my 55 that would be 5.5 a gallon. Now the tank is located in our basement and the room temp in the basement is about 60-70 in the summer and winter and between 70-80 in spring and fall. As you can guess spring and fall less heat and central air is not running. Now I have always read 5 watts a gallon is a good reference point unless you are dealing with higher temp swings. My question is would 300 Watts be enough and I just ended up getting a junk heater. Should I upgrade to more watts or a better heater. I've read about keeping 2 heats going instead of one. http://tinyurl.com/tankheater I was thinking about getting one of these in 300 watts, but should I get two in 200 or 2 in 250 or something else al the way around. Same product different store http://tinyurl.com/tankheater2 Anyhow another newbee question.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 43141	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 9/7/2009
Subject: That Fish Place

A couple of weeks ago, we found ourselves in Lancaster, PA. Getting over the fact that I had arrived on the wrong weekend to participate in the Whoopie Pie Festival 2009 at the Hershey Farm Restaurant & Inn, located in nearby Strasburg, PA, we went to That Fish Place to check out the offerings in the retail store. For those of you who do not know, That Fish Place is also That Pet Place, with stock and equipment for other pets. We were both surprised to find that they had greatly consolidated their offerings, both for fish and dogs (and, also cats). There was lots of open floor space that had previously been used for display of stock. The stock was quite limited from what we had been used to seeing. We go about every other year while returning from our annual summer visit with family in New England and, of course, The Hardwick Fair--the oldest continuous agricultural fair in the country (see http://www.hardwickfair.com). For instance, we did not see the open bins of Mother Hubbard dog treats, where I would normally purchase bulk dog treats for the treat ball one of our dogs so adores. Also, I could find no replacement reagents for my Kordon test kits. However, they still had the large ship wreck, in three pieces, that takes up better than half of the bottom of a 265 gallon tank. (There is also a smaller version, in two pieces that fits into a 125 gallon, are you listening Amber? A couple of air stones in each half and you'd really have something going!) It is hard to judge the fish stock, since we are such infrequent visitors, but there were not as many fish as I have seen on earlier visits, nor the selection I am used to seeing. One thing I did make note of was the tank of naturally colored dwarf gouramis--a rarity these days. Unfortunately, they were all males, else I would have been thinking how I could get them home and a tank set for them. Although a clerk assured us they had lots of other stuff in the warehouse, they were not able to get us anything we were looking for in particular that had been available on previous visits. This reduction in stock may be the result of two trends. One is the current state of the economy (though the down turn has not really affected this area other than the housing market price plunge, and we saw little evidence of it in other places we are familiar with on our trip, other than the usual suspects, just a lot of talk about how bad things were, probably mostly parroted from the news.) The other is the effect of consolidation in the pet industry, where most formerly independent operations are now a part of one conglomerate or another. For instance, Mother Hubbard was bought a few years ago, and many of the treats that used to be offered that I used in the treat ball are no longer to be found in my local stores. Another effect of this consolidation I have noticed, again more in the way of dog stuff, not fish stuff, is the degradation of foods, with the companies reformulating their foods for cheaper ingredients, while maintaining the pricing. As a result, our dogs have gone through several changes in diet, as my lady finds foods that are up to her standards to fed the dogs. Read your labels, to be sure you are getting what you think you are getting. For example, the food I had been buying the cats (we had two back then) suddenly lost the list of ingredients on the label. When the ingredients once again appeared, cheap filler ingredients topped the listing, and the brand of food was changed to another to give the cats a diet like they had been used to. \\Steve//

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 43142	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 9/7/2009
Subject: Re: Aquarium Heater

The size of a heater depends not only on the size of the tank, but on the temperature you wish to heat the tank to in relation with the room temperature. A 150 watt heater in a 55 may be sufficient if the tank temperature is to be 5 degrees or less above the average room temperature. A higher difference would mean you need a larger heater. The idea of using two heaters is to prevent accidental creation of a bouillabaisse in your tank should the heat malfunction and remain in the on position. The two heaters together would equal the number of watts you need to maintain your desired temperature. For instance, if you need 300 watts, you would purchase two 150 watt heaters. If one heater fails, the other would work to try to maintain the temperature, and not overheat the tank. While the resulting temperature may be a bit lower than normal, it will take some time to get there, and you fish would have time to adjust. If the failed heater is in the on position, the other heater would not act to overheat the tank. If the failed heater is not working, the good heater would do what it can to keep the temperature. \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of fishdudeut Sent: Monday, September 07, 2009 2:26 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Aquarium Heater I have a 55 gallon tank and I bought a Pen-Plax 300 Watt heater it said on the package it was rated for a 70 gallon aquarium. That's 4.3 watts a gallon so I was thinking for my 55 that would be 5.5 a gallon. Now the tank is located in our basement and the room temp in the basement is about 60-70 in the summer and winter and between 70-80 in spring and fall. As you can guess spring and fall less heat and central air is not running. Now I have always read 5 watts a gallon is a good reference point unless you are dealing with higher temp swings. My question is would 300 Watts be enough and I just ended up getting a junk heater. Should I upgrade to more watts or a better heater. I've read about keeping 2 heats going instead of one. http://tinyurl.com/tankheater I was thinking about getting one of these in 300 watts, but should I get two in 200 or 2 in 250 or something else al the way around. Same product different store http://tinyurl.com/tankheater2 Anyhow another newbee question. ------------------------------------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the home page. Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com to receive the digest, which includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com for the No E-Mail option where you will still be able to read messages on the group and post replies. Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com to receive individual e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 43143	From: bill 1433	Date: 9/7/2009
Subject: Re: Aquarium Heater

If it were me, I would use two at 300.  When they give those "static" rules like 5 watts to a gallon, I think I read somewhere that they are presupposing the tank is at least 70 degree's constant.  I'd use two just to be safe.  Why have a tank full of dead fish?  Cheap insurance if you ask me. Bill --- On Mon, 9/7/09, fishdudeut <jacknobel@...> wrote: From: fishdudeut <jacknobel@...> Subject: [AquaticLife] Aquarium Heater To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Date: Monday, September 7, 2009, 2:26 PM I have a 55 gallon tank and I bought a Pen-Plax 300 Watt heater it said on the package it was rated for a 70 gallon aquarium.  That's 4.3 watts a  gallon  so I was thinking for my 55 that would be 5.5 a gallon. Now the tank is located in our basement and the room temp in the basement is about 60-70 in the summer and winter and between 70-80 in spring and fall. As you can guess spring and fall less heat and central air is not running. Now I have always read 5 watts a gallon is a good reference point unless you are dealing with higher temp swings. My question is would 300 Watts be enough and I just ended up getting a junk heater. Should I upgrade to  more watts or a better heater. I've read about keeping 2 heats going instead of one. http://tinyurl.com/tankheater I was thinking about getting one of these in 300 watts, but should I get two in 200 or 2 in 250 or something else al the way around. Same product different store http://tinyurl.com/tankheater2 Anyhow another newbee question. ------------------------------------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the home page.  Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com to receive the digest, which includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com for the No E-Mail option where you will still be able to read messages on the group and post replies. Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com to receive individual e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 43144	From: fishdudeut	Date: 9/7/2009
Subject: Re: Aquarium Heater

What is a good brand of heaters? I read mixed reviews about the penn-plax. Would it be better to get 2 new heaters or add a 2nd penn-palx to the tank? --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, bill 1433 <warrenprint@...> wrote: > > If it were me, I would use two at 300.  When they give those "static" rules > like 5 watts to a gallon, I think I read somewhere that they are presupposing the tank is at least 70 degree's constant.  I'd use two just to be safe.  Why have a tank full of dead fish?  Cheap insurance if you ask me. > > Bill > > --- On Mon, 9/7/09, fishdudeut <jacknobel@...> wrote: > > > From: fishdudeut <jacknobel@...> > Subject: [AquaticLife] Aquarium Heater > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Date: Monday, September 7, 2009, 2:26 PM > > > I have a 55 gallon tank and I bought a Pen-Plax 300 Watt heater it said on the package it was rated for a 70 gallon aquarium.  That's 4.3 watts a  gallon  so I was thinking for my 55 that would be 5.5 a gallon. > > Now the tank is located in our basement and the room temp in the basement is about 60-70 in the summer and winter and between 70-80 in spring and fall. As you can guess spring and fall less heat and central air is not running. > > Now I have always read 5 watts a gallon is a good reference point unless you are dealing with higher temp swings. > > My question is would 300 Watts be enough and I just ended up getting a junk heater. Should I upgrade to  more watts or a better heater. I've read about keeping 2 heats going instead of one. > > http://tinyurl.com/tankheater I was thinking about getting one of these in 300 watts, but should I get two in 200 or 2 in 250 or something else al the way around. > > Same product different store http://tinyurl.com/tankheater2 > > Anyhow another newbee question. >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 43145	From: bill 1433	Date: 9/7/2009
Subject: Re: Aquarium Heater

Ebo Jaguer, Visa Therm any of your better quality heaters are fine. Sorry for the spelling, Bill --- On Mon, 9/7/09, fishdudeut <jacknobel@...> wrote: > From: fishdudeut <jacknobel@...> > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Aquarium Heater > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Date: Monday, September 7, 2009, 4:09 PM > What is a good brand of heaters? I > read mixed reviews about the penn-plax. > > Would it be better to get 2 new heaters or add a 2nd > penn-palx to the tank? > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, > bill 1433 <warrenprint@...> wrote: > > > > If it were me, I would use two at 300.  When they > give those "static" rules > > like 5 watts to a gallon, I think I read somewhere > that they are presupposing the tank is at least 70 degree's > constant.  I'd use two just to be safe.  Why have a tank > full of dead fish?  Cheap insurance if you ask me. > > > > Bill > > > > --- On Mon, 9/7/09, fishdudeut <jacknobel@...> > wrote: > > > > > > From: fishdudeut <jacknobel@...> > > Subject: [AquaticLife] Aquarium Heater > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > Date: Monday, September 7, 2009, 2:26 PM > > > > > > I have a 55 gallon tank and I bought a Pen-Plax 300 > Watt heater it said on the package it was rated for a 70 > gallon aquarium.  That's 4.3 watts a  gallon  so I was > thinking for my 55 that would be 5.5 a gallon. > > > > Now the tank is located in our basement and the room > temp in the basement is about 60-70 in the summer and winter > and between 70-80 in spring and fall. As you can guess > spring and fall less heat and central air is not running. > > > > Now I have always read 5 watts a gallon is a good > reference point unless you are dealing with higher temp > swings. > > > > My question is would 300 Watts be enough and I just > ended up getting a junk heater. Should I upgrade to  more > watts or a better heater. I've read about keeping 2 heats > going instead of one. > > > > http://tinyurl.com/tankheater I was thinking about > getting one of these in 300 watts, but should I get two in > 200 or 2 in 250 or something else al the way around. > > > > Same product different store http://tinyurl.com/tankheater2 > > > > Anyhow another newbee question. > > > > > > ------------------------------------ > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when > replying, Thank You. > ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> > ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> > PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is > NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of > the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new > subject (was re: old subject)" <- > <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. > , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. > > If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of > unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by > clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the home page.  > > Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com > to receive the digest, which includes up to 25 posts at a > time in a single email > > Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com > for the No E-Mail option where you will still be able to > read messages on the group and post replies. > > Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com > to receive individual e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links > > >     mailto:AquaticLife-fullfeatured@yahoogroups.com > > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 43146	From: bill 1433	Date: 9/7/2009
Subject: Re: That Fish Place

Thanks for the Heads Up on this Steve. May be making a visit within a month. Sounds along the lines of "If you don't expect too much, you won't be disappointed" type of thing. Maybe their business has gone into the Internet and Mail Order and less walk-in trade? Bill --- On Mon, 9/7/09, Steve Szabo <steve@...> wrote: > From: Steve Szabo <steve@...> > Subject: [AquaticLife] That Fish Place > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Date: Monday, September 7, 2009, 2:58 PM > A couple of weeks ago, we found > ourselves in Lancaster, PA. Getting over > the fact that I had arrived on the wrong weekend to > participate in the > Whoopie Pie Festival 2009 at the Hershey Farm Restaurant > & Inn, located > in nearby Strasburg, PA, we went to That Fish Place to > check out the > offerings in the retail store. For those of you who do not > know, That > Fish Place is also That Pet Place, with stock and equipment > for other > pets. > > We were both surprised to find that they had greatly > consolidated their > offerings, both for fish and dogs (and, also cats). There > was lots of > open floor space that had previously been used for display > of stock. The > stock was quite limited from what we had been used to > seeing. We go > about every other year while returning from our annual > summer visit with > family in New England and, of course, The Hardwick > Fair--the oldest > continuous agricultural fair in the country (see > http://www.hardwickfair.com). For instance, we did not > see the open bins > of Mother Hubbard dog treats, where I would normally > purchase bulk dog > treats for the treat ball one of our dogs so adores. Also, > I could find > no replacement reagents for my Kordon test kits. However, > they still had > the large ship wreck, in three pieces, that takes up better > than half of > the bottom of a 265 gallon tank. (There is also a smaller > version, in > two pieces that fits into a 125 gallon, are you listening > Amber? A > couple of air stones in each half and you'd really have > something > going!) > > It is hard to judge the fish stock, since we are such > infrequent > visitors, but there were not as many fish as I have seen on > earlier > visits, nor the selection I am used to seeing. One thing I > did make note > of was the tank of naturally colored dwarf gouramis--a > rarity these > days. Unfortunately, they were all males, else I would have > been > thinking how I could get them home and a tank set for > them. > > Although a clerk assured us they had lots of other stuff in > the > warehouse, they were not able to get us anything we were > looking for in > particular that had been available on previous visits. This > reduction in > stock may be the result of two trends. One is the current > state of the > economy (though the down turn has not really affected this > area other > than the housing market price plunge, and we saw little > evidence of it > in other places we are familiar with on our trip, other > than the usual > suspects, just a lot of talk about how bad things were, > probably mostly > parroted from the news.) The other is the effect of > consolidation in the > pet industry, where most formerly independent operations > are now a part > of one conglomerate or another. For instance, Mother > Hubbard was bought > a few years ago, and many of the treats that used to be > offered that I > used in the treat ball are no longer to be found in my > local stores. > > Another effect of this consolidation I have noticed, again > more in the > way of dog stuff, not fish stuff, is the degradation of > foods, with the > companies reformulating their foods for cheaper > ingredients, while > maintaining the pricing. As a result, our dogs have gone > through several > changes in diet, as my lady finds foods that are up to her > standards to > fed the dogs. Read your labels, to be sure you are getting > what you > think you are getting. For example, the food I had been > buying the cats > (we had two back then) suddenly lost the list of > ingredients on the > label. When the ingredients once again appeared, cheap > filler > ingredients topped the listing, and the brand of food was > changed to > another to give the cats a diet like they had been used > to. > > \\Steve// > > > > ------------------------------------ > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when > replying, Thank You. > ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> > ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> > PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is > NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of > the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new > subject (was re: old subject)" <- > <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. > , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. > > If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of > unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by > clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the home page.  > > Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com > to receive the digest, which includes up to 25 posts at a > time in a single email > > Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com > for the No E-Mail option where you will still be able to > read messages on the group and post replies. > > Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com > to receive individual e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links > > >     mailto:AquaticLife-fullfeatured@yahoogroups.com > > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 43147	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 9/7/2009
Subject: Re: That Fish Place

Bill, I don't know about that, but I did notice a couple of the tanks in the fish room were labeled as reserve for mail order. However, I just took a look at the web site, and searched for some things I know they carried, and was only able to find one out of three, so, they have cut back. Besides, a guy like you, I thought you would be more interested in finding out more about the Whoopie Pie Festival <g>. \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of bill 1433 Sent: Monday, September 07, 2009 4:33 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] That Fish Place Thanks for the Heads Up on this Steve. May be making a visit within a month. Sounds along the lines of "If you don't expect too much, you won't be disappointed" type of thing. Maybe their business has gone into the Internet and Mail Order and less walk-in trade? Bill --- On Mon, 9/7/09, Steve Szabo <steve@...> wrote: > From: Steve Szabo <steve@...> > Subject: [AquaticLife] That Fish Place > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Date: Monday, September 7, 2009, 2:58 PM > A couple of weeks ago, we found > ourselves in Lancaster, PA. Getting over > the fact that I had arrived on the wrong weekend to > participate in the > Whoopie Pie Festival 2009 at the Hershey Farm Restaurant > & Inn, located > in nearby Strasburg, PA, we went to That Fish Place to > check out the > offerings in the retail store. For those of you who do not > know, That > Fish Place is also That Pet Place, with stock and equipment > for other > pets. > > We were both surprised to find that they had greatly > consolidated their > offerings, both for fish and dogs (and, also cats). There > was lots of > open floor space that had previously been used for display > of stock. The > stock was quite limited from what we had been used to > seeing. We go > about every other year while returning from our annual > summer visit with > family in New England and, of course, The Hardwick > Fair--the oldest > continuous agricultural fair in the country (see > http://www.hardwickfair.com). For instance, we did not > see the open bins > of Mother Hubbard dog treats, where I would normally > purchase bulk dog > treats for the treat ball one of our dogs so adores. Also, > I could find > no replacement reagents for my Kordon test kits. However, > they still had > the large ship wreck, in three pieces, that takes up better > than half of > the bottom of a 265 gallon tank. (There is also a smaller > version, in > two pieces that fits into a 125 gallon, are you listening > Amber? A > couple of air stones in each half and you'd really have > something > going!) > > It is hard to judge the fish stock, since we are such > infrequent > visitors, but there were not as many fish as I have seen on > earlier > visits, nor the selection I am used to seeing. One thing I > did make note > of was the tank of naturally colored dwarf gouramis--a > rarity these > days. Unfortunately, they were all males, else I would have > been > thinking how I could get them home and a tank set for > them. > > Although a clerk assured us they had lots of other stuff in > the > warehouse, they were not able to get us anything we were > looking for in > particular that had been available on previous visits. This > reduction in > stock may be the result of two trends. One is the current > state of the > economy (though the down turn has not really affected this > area other > than the housing market price plunge, and we saw little > evidence of it > in other places we are familiar with on our trip, other > than the usual > suspects, just a lot of talk about how bad things were, > probably mostly > parroted from the news.) The other is the effect of > consolidation in the > pet industry, where most formerly independent operations > are now a part > of one conglomerate or another. For instance, Mother > Hubbard was bought > a few years ago, and many of the treats that used to be > offered that I > used in the treat ball are no longer to be found in my > local stores. > > Another effect of this consolidation I have noticed, again > more in the > way of dog stuff, not fish stuff, is the degradation of > foods, with the > companies reformulating their foods for cheaper > ingredients, while > maintaining the pricing. As a result, our dogs have gone > through several > changes in diet, as my lady finds foods that are up to her > standards to > fed the dogs. Read your labels, to be sure you are getting > what you > think you are getting. For example, the food I had been > buying the cats > (we had two back then) suddenly lost the list of > ingredients on the > label. When the ingredients once again appeared, cheap > filler > ingredients topped the listing, and the brand of food was > changed to > another to give the cats a diet like they had been used > to. > > \\Steve// > > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 43148	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 9/7/2009
Subject: Re: That Fish Place

Now if I was anywhere near PA I would be interested in that sunken ship set up for a 125 gallon tank, and yes I was listening ;) LOL. I'm sure the shipping would be horrid to get it here, most ornaments are fairly heavy. Amber Steve Szabo wrote: > > > Bill, > > I don't know about that, but I did notice a couple of the tanks in the > fish room were labeled as reserve for mail order. However, I just took a > look at the web site, and searched for some things I know they carried, > and was only able to find one out of three, so, they have cut back. > > Besides, a guy like you, I thought you would be more interested in > finding out more about the Whoopie Pie Festival <g>. > > \\Steve// > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] > On Behalf Of bill 1433 > Sent: Monday, September 07, 2009 4:33 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] That Fish Place > > Thanks for the Heads Up on this Steve. May be making a visit > within a month. Sounds along the lines of "If you don't expect too > much, you won't be disappointed" type of thing. Maybe their business > has gone into the Internet and Mail Order and less walk-in trade? > > Bill > > --- On Mon, 9/7/09, Steve Szabo <steve@... > <mailto:steve%40familyszabo.com>> wrote: > > > From: Steve Szabo <steve@... > <mailto:steve%40familyszabo.com>> > > Subject: [AquaticLife] That Fish Place > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > Date: Monday, September 7, 2009, 2:58 PM > > A couple of weeks ago, we found > > ourselves in Lancaster, PA. Getting over > > the fact that I had arrived on the wrong weekend to > > participate in the > > Whoopie Pie Festival 2009 at the Hershey Farm Restaurant > > & Inn, located > > in nearby Strasburg, PA, we went to That Fish Place to > > check out the > > offerings in the retail store. For those of you who do not > > know, That > > Fish Place is also That Pet Place, with stock and equipment > > for other > > pets. > > > > We were both surprised to find that they had greatly > > consolidated their > > offerings, both for fish and dogs (and, also cats). There > > was lots of > > open floor space that had previously been used for display > > of stock. The > > stock was quite limited from what we had been used to > > seeing. We go > > about every other year while returning from our annual > > summer visit with > > family in New England and, of course, The Hardwick > > Fair--the oldest > > continuous agricultural fair in the country (see > > http://www.hardwickfair.com <http://www.hardwickfair.com>). For > instance, we did not > > see the open bins > > of Mother Hubbard dog treats, where I would normally > > purchase bulk dog > > treats for the treat ball one of our dogs so adores. Also, > > I could find > > no replacement reagents for my Kordon test kits. However, > > they still had > > the large ship wreck, in three pieces, that takes up better > > than half of > > the bottom of a 265 gallon tank. (There is also a smaller > > version, in > > two pieces that fits into a 125 gallon, are you listening > > Amber? A > > couple of air stones in each half and you'd really have > > something > > going!) > > > > It is hard to judge the fish stock, since we are such > > infrequent > > visitors, but there were not as many fish as I have seen on > > earlier > > visits, nor the selection I am used to seeing. One thing I > > did make note > > of was the tank of naturally colored dwarf gouramis--a > > rarity these > > days. Unfortunately, they were all males, else I would have > > been > > thinking how I could get them home and a tank set for > > them. > > > > Although a clerk assured us they had lots of other stuff in > > the > > warehouse, they were not able to get us anything we were > > looking for in > > particular that had been available on previous visits. This > > reduction in > > stock may be the result of two trends. One is the current > > state of the > > economy (though the down turn has not really affected this > > area other > > than the housing market price plunge, and we saw little > > evidence of it > > in other places we are familiar with on our trip, other > > than the usual > > suspects, just a lot of talk about how bad things were, > > probably mostly > > parroted from the news.) The other is the effect of > > consolidation in the > > pet industry, where most formerly independent operations > > are now a part > > of one conglomerate or another. For instance, Mother > > Hubbard was bought > > a few years ago, and many of the treats that used to be > > offered that I > > used in the treat ball are no longer to be found in my > > local stores. > > > > Another effect of this consolidation I have noticed, again > > more in the > > way of dog stuff, not fish stuff, is the degradation of > > foods, with the > > companies reformulating their foods for cheaper > > ingredients, while > > maintaining the pricing. As a result, our dogs have gone > > through several > > changes in diet, as my lady finds foods that are up to her > > standards to > > fed the dogs. Read your labels, to be sure you are getting > > what you > > think you are getting. For example, the food I had been > > buying the cats > > (we had two back then) suddenly lost the list of > > ingredients on the > > label. When the ingredients once again appeared, cheap > > filler > > ingredients topped the listing, and the brand of food was > > changed to > > another to give the cats a diet like they had been used > > to. > > > > \\Steve// > > > > > > > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 43149	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 9/7/2009
Subject: Re: Aquarium Heater

In the Tutorials that I have listed on my blog's "A to Z of Fish Keeping" page, here's a snip from TheKrib.com tutorial about heaters. 5 watts per gallon is overkill for most people but maybe not in your case. Note the second paragraph below. You should take one or both of these free online tutorials if you haven't read through them yet. You will likely come up with many more questions to go over while you finish your fishless cycling. http://faq.thekrib.com/begin-hardware.html#essentials Heaters If you are keeping tropical fish, you will need a heater. A heater insures that a tank doesn't get too cool, and that the temperature stays steady during the course of the day, even when the room cools off (e.g., at night). For many tropical fish, a temperature of 78F is ideal. There are two main heater types. Submersible heaters stay completely below the water. A second, more traditional style, has a partially submerged glass tube (which contains the heating coils), but leaves the controls above the water. Submersible heaters are the better design, as they can be placed horizontally along the tank's bottom. This helps keep tank temperature uniform (heat rises), and prevents the heater from becoming exposed while doing partial water changes. With the traditional design, one must remember to unplug the heater before doing water changes; if the heater is accidentally left on while the coil is above the water, the tube gets hot and may crack when you fill the tank back up with water. If your room is never more than 8-10F degrees cooler than your target tank temperature, a heater of roughly 2.5 Watts per gallon will suffice. If the differential is higher, up to 5 Watts (or more) per gallon may be necessary. Remember, the heater needs to keep the tank at its target temperature, even when the room is at its coldest point; the tank's temperature should not fluctuate. Heaters (especially cheap ones) will fail. Most often the contact that actually turns the heater on and off gets permanently stuck, either in the on or off position. In the former case, your tank can get VERY hot, especially if the heater is larger than your tank actually requires. To minimize potential problems, avoid heaters larger than the optimal size for your tank. To prevent winter disasters, use two smaller heaters in parallel rather than one large one. That way if one fails, the consequences won't be as disastrous. (END SNIP) That said and considering your basement can get nearly 20F cooler than your preferred tank temp of around 78F, you should go with a total of 5 watts per gallon and use two heaters so you have redundancy in the event of a failure of one of them. So... two 150W (or 200W depending on brand) heaters would be sufficient. If you get a decent quality submersible heater.. I think all are nowadays.., you can lay them down in the back of your tank with the wire going down the back corners and even bury the heaters under your gravel to hide them if you like... although you won't be able to see the LED light to know when they are kicking on if they are buried. I usually leave them above the gravel and hide them behind plants or decorations. Since you have already purchased the Penn-Plax 300W heater, use it but keep an eye on it. Penn-Plax stuff isn't the best quality stuff around. A nice new design in heaters is the Rena SmartHeater http://www.drsfostersmith.com/product/prod_display.cfm?c=3578+3743+18444&pca tid=18444 which fits over your filters intake tube and replaces the intake screen so that the water has to go through the heater before entering the filter. This also hides the wire up the back of the intake tube. They're more expensive than the ones you've been looking at though. 150W SmartHeater's are regular priced at $31.99 each at DFS. These will NOT fit over the rectangular intake tubes on some of the larger Marineland Bio-Wheel HOB's but do fit over the standard 1" round intake tubes on most other filter systems. The Visi-Therm heaters you are looking at are probably a better quality than the Penn-Plax. I see they are owned/made by Instant Ocean which is generally a reputable company. Speaking of hiding wires, when it comes time to empty your tank after your fishless cycle, while it's 90% empty, apply some of these http://www.radioshack.com/product/index.jsp?productId=2062666 in the back two corners to hold your wires, airline tubes, etc. Peel off the double stick tape (and clean adhesive with alcohol) and use 2-part epoxy for quick and permanent sticking or aquarium silicone for non-permanent sticking... but then you would have to leave the tank empty for 24 hours so that really isn't an option now so the 2-part epoxy is your only choice now. Just make sure you are putting them where you want them! They only show white on the website but they also come in black. Here's the two pages of other cable holders at "The Shack" as they are advertising themselves nowadays. http://www.radioshack.com/family/index.jsp?categoryId=2032317 Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of fishdudeut Sent: Monday, September 07, 2009 1:26 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Aquarium Heater I have a 55 gallon tank and I bought a Pen-Plax 300 Watt heater it said on the package it was rated for a 70 gallon aquarium. That's 4.3 watts a gallon so I was thinking for my 55 that would be 5.5 a gallon. Now the tank is located in our basement and the room temp in the basement is about 60-70 in the summer and winter and between 70-80 in spring and fall. As you can guess spring and fall less heat and central air is not running. Now I have always read 5 watts a gallon is a good reference point unless you are dealing with higher temp swings. My question is would 300 Watts be enough and I just ended up getting a junk heater. Should I upgrade to more watts or a better heater. I've read about keeping 2 heats going instead of one. http://tinyurl.com/tankheater I was thinking about getting one of these in 300 watts, but should I get two in 200 or 2 in 250 or something else al the way around. Same product different store http://tinyurl.com/tankheater2 Anyhow another newbee question.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 43150	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 9/7/2009
Subject: Re: That Fish Place

Amber, Here is your link: http://www.thatpetplace.com/pet/group/7396/product.web \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Amber Berglund Sent: Monday, September 07, 2009 5:06 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] That Fish Place Now if I was anywhere near PA I would be interested in that sunken ship set up for a 125 gallon tank, and yes I was listening ;) LOL. I'm sure the shipping would be horrid to get it here, most ornaments are fairly heavy. Amber Steve Szabo wrote: > > > Bill, > > I don't know about that, but I did notice a couple of the tanks in the > fish room were labeled as reserve for mail order. However, I just took a > look at the web site, and searched for some things I know they carried, > and was only able to find one out of three, so, they have cut back. > > Besides, a guy like you, I thought you would be more interested in > finding out more about the Whoopie Pie Festival <g>. > > \\Steve// > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] > On Behalf Of bill 1433 > Sent: Monday, September 07, 2009 4:33 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] That Fish Place > > Thanks for the Heads Up on this Steve. May be making a visit > within a month. Sounds along the lines of "If you don't expect too > much, you won't be disappointed" type of thing. Maybe their business > has gone into the Internet and Mail Order and less walk-in trade? > > Bill > > --- On Mon, 9/7/09, Steve Szabo <steve@... > <mailto:steve%40familyszabo.com>> wrote: > > > From: Steve Szabo <steve@... > <mailto:steve%40familyszabo.com>> > > Subject: [AquaticLife] That Fish Place > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > Date: Monday, September 7, 2009, 2:58 PM > > A couple of weeks ago, we found > > ourselves in Lancaster, PA. Getting over > > the fact that I had arrived on the wrong weekend to > > participate in the > > Whoopie Pie Festival 2009 at the Hershey Farm Restaurant > > & Inn, located > > in nearby Strasburg, PA, we went to That Fish Place to > > check out the > > offerings in the retail store. For those of you who do not > > know, That > > Fish Place is also That Pet Place, with stock and equipment > > for other > > pets. > > > > We were both surprised to find that they had greatly > > consolidated their > > offerings, both for fish and dogs (and, also cats). There > > was lots of > > open floor space that had previously been used for display > > of stock. The > > stock was quite limited from what we had been used to > > seeing. We go > > about every other year while returning from our annual > > summer visit with > > family in New England and, of course, The Hardwick > > Fair--the oldest > > continuous agricultural fair in the country (see > > http://www.hardwickfair.com <http://www.hardwickfair.com>). For > instance, we did not > > see the open bins > > of Mother Hubbard dog treats, where I would normally > > purchase bulk dog > > treats for the treat ball one of our dogs so adores. Also, > > I could find > > no replacement reagents for my Kordon test kits. However, > > they still had > > the large ship wreck, in three pieces, that takes up better > > than half of > > the bottom of a 265 gallon tank. (There is also a smaller > > version, in > > two pieces that fits into a 125 gallon, are you listening > > Amber? A > > couple of air stones in each half and you'd really have > > something > > going!) > > > > It is hard to judge the fish stock, since we are such > > infrequent > > visitors, but there were not as many fish as I have seen on > > earlier > > visits, nor the selection I am used to seeing. One thing I > > did make note > > of was the tank of naturally colored dwarf gouramis--a > > rarity these > > days. Unfortunately, they were all males, else I would have > > been > > thinking how I could get them home and a tank set for > > them. > > > > Although a clerk assured us they had lots of other stuff in > > the > > warehouse, they were not able to get us anything we were > > looking for in > > particular that had been available on previous visits. This > > reduction in > > stock may be the result of two trends. One is the current > > state of the > > economy (though the down turn has not really affected this > > area other > > than the housing market price plunge, and we saw little > > evidence of it > > in other places we are familiar with on our trip, other > > than the usual > > suspects, just a lot of talk about how bad things were, > > probably mostly > > parroted from the news.) The other is the effect of > > consolidation in the > > pet industry, where most formerly independent operations > > are now a part > > of one conglomerate or another. For instance, Mother > > Hubbard was bought > > a few years ago, and many of the treats that used to be > > offered that I > > used in the treat ball are no longer to be found in my > > local stores. > > > > Another effect of this consolidation I have noticed, again > > more in the > > way of dog stuff, not fish stuff, is the degradation of > > foods, with the > > companies reformulating their foods for cheaper > > ingredients, while > > maintaining the pricing. As a result, our dogs have gone > > through several > > changes in diet, as my lady finds foods that are up to her > > standards to > > fed the dogs. Read your labels, to be sure you are getting > > what you > > think you are getting. For example, the food I had been > > buying the cats > > (we had two back then) suddenly lost the list of > > ingredients on the > > label. When the ingredients once again appeared, cheap > > filler > > ingredients topped the listing, and the brand of food was > > changed to > > another to give the cats a diet like they had been used > > to. > > > > \\Steve// > > > > > > > > ------------------------------------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the home page. Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com to receive the digest, which includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com for the No E-Mail option where you will still be able to read messages on the group and post replies. Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com to receive individual e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 43151	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 9/7/2009
Subject: Re: That Fish Place

I wonder if they are just moving their marketing efforts towards the web? Retail space is expensive compared to a website. I haven't spent a lot of time at their website, http://www.ThatFishPlace.com to know or notice if they've reduced their inventory there also but maybe you can find your missing products there. Of course, the doggy treats would be at http://www.ThatPetPlace.com but can also be accessed from the ThatFishPlace.com site. Their websites are known for having very competitive online pricing. Of course, so did PetsMart.com until the past year where their prices have gone up to around the same as the retail prices. Sheesh.. they don't even carry the API Tap Water Conditioner 16 oz. bottle, just the 4 oz. bottle so maybe they are cutting back inventory in general... and their price on the 4 oz. bottle doesn't seem to be very good at $3.49 since the 16 oz. bottle is usually around $5.00 to $6.00. Sheesh.. DrsFosterSmith.com doesn't have API's Tap Water Conditioner either. What-the-heck??? OH WAIT.. it just didn't show up on a search of Aquarium Pharmaceuticals. They must have it only under API. 16 oz. bottle is $5.69 and treats almost 10,000 gallons where other products 16 oz. bottles only treat 2,500 to 5,000G and usually cost more. http://www.drsfostersmith.com/product/prod_display.cfm?c=3578+3974+4038&pcat id=4038 Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Steve Szabo Sent: Monday, September 07, 2009 1:59 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] That Fish Place A couple of weeks ago, we found ourselves in Lancaster, PA. Getting over the fact that I had arrived on the wrong weekend to participate in the Whoopie Pie Festival 2009 at the Hershey Farm Restaurant & Inn, located in nearby Strasburg, PA, we went to That Fish Place to check out the offerings in the retail store. For those of you who do not know, That Fish Place is also That Pet Place, with stock and equipment for other pets. We were both surprised to find that they had greatly consolidated their offerings, both for fish and dogs (and, also cats). There was lots of open floor space that had previously been used for display of stock. The stock was quite limited from what we had been used to seeing. We go about every other year while returning from our annual summer visit with family in New England and, of course, The Hardwick Fair--the oldest continuous agricultural fair in the country (see http://www.hardwickfair.com). For instance, we did not see the open bins of Mother Hubbard dog treats, where I would normally purchase bulk dog treats for the treat ball one of our dogs so adores. Also, I could find no replacement reagents for my Kordon test kits. However, they still had the large ship wreck, in three pieces, that takes up better than half of the bottom of a 265 gallon tank. (There is also a smaller version, in two pieces that fits into a 125 gallon, are you listening Amber? A couple of air stones in each half and you'd really have something going!) It is hard to judge the fish stock, since we are such infrequent visitors, but there were not as many fish as I have seen on earlier visits, nor the selection I am used to seeing. One thing I did make note of was the tank of naturally colored dwarf gouramis--a rarity these days. Unfortunately, they were all males, else I would have been thinking how I could get them home and a tank set for them. Although a clerk assured us they had lots of other stuff in the warehouse, they were not able to get us anything we were looking for in particular that had been available on previous visits. This reduction in stock may be the result of two trends. One is the current state of the economy (though the down turn has not really affected this area other than the housing market price plunge, and we saw little evidence of it in other places we are familiar with on our trip, other than the usual suspects, just a lot of talk about how bad things were, probably mostly parroted from the news.) The other is the effect of consolidation in the pet industry, where most formerly independent operations are now a part of one conglomerate or another. For instance, Mother Hubbard was bought a few years ago, and many of the treats that used to be offered that I used in the treat ball are no longer to be found in my local stores. Another effect of this consolidation I have noticed, again more in the way of dog stuff, not fish stuff, is the degradation of foods, with the companies reformulating their foods for cheaper ingredients, while maintaining the pricing. As a result, our dogs have gone through several changes in diet, as my lady finds foods that are up to her standards to fed the dogs. Read your labels, to be sure you are getting what you think you are getting. For example, the food I had been buying the cats (we had two back then) suddenly lost the list of ingredients on the label. When the ingredients once again appeared, cheap filler ingredients topped the listing, and the brand of food was changed to another to give the cats a diet like they had been used to. \\Steve// ------------------------------------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. 74/`7.88.><((((:>.74/`7.88.74/`7.8><((((:> 8.74/`7.8. , .74/`7..><((((:> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <:((((><.74/`7.88.74/`7.8<:((((><8.74/`7.8. , .74/`7..<:((((><74/`7.88. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the home page. Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com to receive the digest, which includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com for the No E-Mail option where you will still be able to read messages on the group and post replies. Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com to receive individual e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 43152	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 9/7/2009
Subject: Re: Aquarium Heater

If you are going to keep the current 300W Penn-Plax and get a second heater, the Visi-Therm you are looking at is OK. See my previous post for more info. I would NOT spend money on Penn-Plax stuff unless it was for an emergency and that was all that was available or all I could afford... although they may have some good quality stuff that I'm not aware of. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of fishdudeut Sent: Monday, September 07, 2009 3:09 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Aquarium Heater What is a good brand of heaters? I read mixed reviews about the penn-plax. Would it be better to get 2 new heaters or add a 2nd penn-palx to the tank? --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, bill 1433 <warrenprint@...> wrote: > > If it were me, I would use two at 300.  When they give those "static" > rules like 5 watts to a gallon, I think I read somewhere that they are presupposing the tank is at least 70 degree's constant.  I'd use two just to be safe.  Why have a tank full of dead fish?  Cheap insurance if you ask me. > > Bill > > --- On Mon, 9/7/09, fishdudeut <jacknobel@...> wrote: > > > From: fishdudeut <jacknobel@...> > Subject: [AquaticLife] Aquarium Heater > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Date: Monday, September 7, 2009, 2:26 PM > > > I have a 55 gallon tank and I bought a Pen-Plax 300 Watt heater it said on the package it was rated for a 70 gallon aquarium.  That's 4.3 watts a  gallon  so I was thinking for my 55 that would be 5.5 a gallon. > > Now the tank is located in our basement and the room temp in the basement is about 60-70 in the summer and winter and between 70-80 in spring and fall. As you can guess spring and fall less heat and central air is not running. > > Now I have always read 5 watts a gallon is a good reference point unless you are dealing with higher temp swings. > > My question is would 300 Watts be enough and I just ended up getting a junk heater. Should I upgrade to  more watts or a better heater. I've read about keeping 2 heats going instead of one. > > http://tinyurl.com/tankheater I was thinking about getting one of these in 300 watts, but should I get two in 200 or 2 in 250 or something else al the way around. > > Same product different store http://tinyurl.com/tankheater2 > > Anyhow another newbee question. >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 43153	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 9/7/2009
Subject: Re: That Fish Place

You didn't supply a link to the Whoopie Pie Festival. ;-) http://www.whoopiepiefestival.com/ I was hoping for something else but I should have know *you* wouldn't go to that kind of festival... at least not with your family. LOL \\Steve//, On a side note, about computers, lately, with IE8, when I try to open certain websites, mainly Wikipedia pages but it also happened on that WhoopiePieFestival site, I get a pop up saying "File Download - Security Warning, Do you want to save this file, or find a program online to open it?..." Of course I cancel this and the page never opens but then I can click on the Google Cached link to see the page but I'm wondering about this issue and keep expecting an MS update to fix it. I'm guessing it's something to do with the compatibility mode with IE8 but even when I added Wikipedia to my approved compatibility list, most of their pages will not open properly although some will so I'm not sure why it only happens sometimes. I haven't Googled this issue yet so you're the first person I'm running this issue by. I know you use FF so you may not even know about this but I thought I'd ask. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Steve Szabo Sent: Monday, September 07, 2009 4:02 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] That Fish Place Bill, I don't know about that, but I did notice a couple of the tanks in the fish room were labeled as reserve for mail order. However, I just took a look at the web site, and searched for some things I know they carried, and was only able to find one out of three, so, they have cut back. Besides, a guy like you, I thought you would be more interested in finding out more about the Whoopie Pie Festival <g>. \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of bill 1433 Sent: Monday, September 07, 2009 4:33 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] That Fish Place Thanks for the Heads Up on this Steve. May be making a visit within a month. Sounds along the lines of "If you don't expect too much, you won't be disappointed" type of thing. Maybe their business has gone into the Internet and Mail Order and less walk-in trade? Bill --- On Mon, 9/7/09, Steve Szabo <steve@...> wrote: > From: Steve Szabo <steve@...> > Subject: [AquaticLife] That Fish Place > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Date: Monday, September 7, 2009, 2:58 PM A couple of weeks ago, we > found ourselves in Lancaster, PA. Getting over the fact that I had > arrived on the wrong weekend to participate in the Whoopie Pie > Festival 2009 at the Hershey Farm Restaurant & Inn, located in nearby > Strasburg, PA, we went to That Fish Place to check out the offerings > in the retail store. For those of you who do not know, That Fish Place > is also That Pet Place, with stock and equipment for other pets. > > We were both surprised to find that they had greatly consolidated > their offerings, both for fish and dogs (and, also cats). There was > lots of open floor space that had previously been used for display of > stock. The stock was quite limited from what we had been used to > seeing. We go about every other year while returning from our annual > summer visit with family in New England and, of course, The Hardwick > Fair--the oldest continuous agricultural fair in the country (see > http://www.hardwickfair.com). For instance, we did not see the open > bins of Mother Hubbard dog treats, where I would normally purchase > bulk dog treats for the treat ball one of our dogs so adores. Also, I > could find no replacement reagents for my Kordon test kits. However, > they still had the large ship wreck, in three pieces, that takes up > better than half of the bottom of a 265 gallon tank. (There is also a > smaller version, in two pieces that fits into a 125 gallon, are you > listening Amber? A couple of air stones in each half and you'd really > have something > going!) > > It is hard to judge the fish stock, since we are such infrequent > visitors, but there were not as many fish as I have seen on earlier > visits, nor the selection I am used to seeing. One thing I did make > note of was the tank of naturally colored dwarf gouramis--a rarity > these days. Unfortunately, they were all males, else I would have been > thinking how I could get them home and a tank set for them. > > Although a clerk assured us they had lots of other stuff in the > warehouse, they were not able to get us anything we were looking for > in particular that had been available on previous visits. This > reduction in stock may be the result of two trends. One is the current > state of the economy (though the down turn has not really affected > this area other than the housing market price plunge, and we saw > little evidence of it in other places we are familiar with on our > trip, other than the usual suspects, just a lot of talk about how bad > things were, probably mostly parroted from the news.) The other is the > effect of consolidation in the pet industry, where most formerly > independent operations are now a part of one conglomerate or another. > For instance, Mother Hubbard was bought a few years ago, and many of > the treats that used to be offered that I used in the treat ball are > no longer to be found in my local stores. > > Another effect of this consolidation I have noticed, again more in the > way of dog stuff, not fish stuff, is the degradation of foods, with > the companies reformulating their foods for cheaper ingredients, while > maintaining the pricing. As a result, our dogs have gone through > several changes in diet, as my lady finds foods that are up to her > standards to fed the dogs. Read your labels, to be sure you are > getting what you think you are getting. For example, the food I had > been buying the cats (we had two back then) suddenly lost the list of > ingredients on the label. When the ingredients once again appeared, > cheap filler ingredients topped the listing, and the brand of food was > changed to another to give the cats a diet like they had been used to. > > \\Steve//

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 43154	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 9/7/2009
Subject: Re: That Fish Place

That Fish Place is just a big warehouse on the wrong side of the tracks. Well, depending on how you approach it, you do need to cross some tracks. Seriously, if you have Google Earth, take a look, the whole area is industrial, with a lot of warehouse space, certainly not a high rent district in a retail area. \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Lenny V. aka GoldLenny Sent: Monday, September 07, 2009 5:30 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] That Fish Place I wonder if they are just moving their marketing efforts towards the web? Retail space is expensive compared to a website. I haven't spent a lot of time at their website, http://www.ThatFishPlace.com to know or notice if they've reduced their inventory there also but maybe you can find your missing products there. Of course, the doggy treats would be at http://www.ThatPetPlace.com but can also be accessed from the ThatFishPlace.com site. Their websites are known for having very competitive online pricing. Of course, so did PetsMart.com until the past year where their prices have gone up to around the same as the retail prices. Sheesh.. they don't even carry the API Tap Water Conditioner 16 oz. bottle, just the 4 oz. bottle so maybe they are cutting back inventory in general... and their price on the 4 oz. bottle doesn't seem to be very good at $3.49 since the 16 oz. bottle is usually around $5.00 to $6.00. Sheesh.. DrsFosterSmith.com doesn't have API's Tap Water Conditioner either. What-the-heck??? OH WAIT.. it just didn't show up on a search of Aquarium Pharmaceuticals. They must have it only under API. 16 oz. bottle is $5.69 and treats almost 10,000 gallons where other products 16 oz. bottles only treat 2,500 to 5,000G and usually cost more. http://www.drsfostersmith.com/product/prod_display.cfm?c=3578+3974+4038& pcat id=4038 Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Steve Szabo Sent: Monday, September 07, 2009 1:59 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] That Fish Place A couple of weeks ago, we found ourselves in Lancaster, PA. Getting over the fact that I had arrived on the wrong weekend to participate in the Whoopie Pie Festival 2009 at the Hershey Farm Restaurant & Inn, located in nearby Strasburg, PA, we went to That Fish Place to check out the offerings in the retail store. For those of you who do not know, That Fish Place is also That Pet Place, with stock and equipment for other pets. We were both surprised to find that they had greatly consolidated their offerings, both for fish and dogs (and, also cats). There was lots of open floor space that had previously been used for display of stock. The stock was quite limited from what we had been used to seeing. We go about every other year while returning from our annual summer visit with family in New England and, of course, The Hardwick Fair--the oldest continuous agricultural fair in the country (see http://www.hardwickfair.com). For instance, we did not see the open bins of Mother Hubbard dog treats, where I would normally purchase bulk dog treats for the treat ball one of our dogs so adores. Also, I could find no replacement reagents for my Kordon test kits. However, they still had the large ship wreck, in three pieces, that takes up better than half of the bottom of a 265 gallon tank. (There is also a smaller version, in two pieces that fits into a 125 gallon, are you listening Amber? A couple of air stones in each half and you'd really have something going!) It is hard to judge the fish stock, since we are such infrequent visitors, but there were not as many fish as I have seen on earlier visits, nor the selection I am used to seeing. One thing I did make note of was the tank of naturally colored dwarf gouramis--a rarity these days. Unfortunately, they were all males, else I would have been thinking how I could get them home and a tank set for them. Although a clerk assured us they had lots of other stuff in the warehouse, they were not able to get us anything we were looking for in particular that had been available on previous visits. This reduction in stock may be the result of two trends. One is the current state of the economy (though the down turn has not really affected this area other than the housing market price plunge, and we saw little evidence of it in other places we are familiar with on our trip, other than the usual suspects, just a lot of talk about how bad things were, probably mostly parroted from the news.) The other is the effect of consolidation in the pet industry, where most formerly independent operations are now a part of one conglomerate or another. For instance, Mother Hubbard was bought a few years ago, and many of the treats that used to be offered that I used in the treat ball are no longer to be found in my local stores. Another effect of this consolidation I have noticed, again more in the way of dog stuff, not fish stuff, is the degradation of foods, with the companies reformulating their foods for cheaper ingredients, while maintaining the pricing. As a result, our dogs have gone through several changes in diet, as my lady finds foods that are up to her standards to fed the dogs. Read your labels, to be sure you are getting what you think you are getting. For example, the food I had been buying the cats (we had two back then) suddenly lost the list of ingredients on the label. When the ingredients once again appeared, cheap filler ingredients topped the listing, and the brand of food was changed to another to give the cats a diet like they had been used to. \\Steve//

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 43155	From: pam andress	Date: 9/7/2009
Subject: Re: That Fish Place/Whoopie Pie Festival

I want to go. Those look good!!!! Pam You didn't supply a link to the Whoopie Pie Festival. ;-) http://www.whoopiepiefestival.com/ I was hoping for something else but I should have know *you* wouldn't go to that kind of festival... at least not with your family. LOL \\Steve//, . [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 43156	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 9/7/2009
Subject: Re: That Fish Place/Whoopie Pie Festival

Pam, What are you waiting for? There is a ton of places to stay, what with Lancaster being right in the middle of Amish country--a big tourist draw--so it will not be hard to find a place. Just remember, the horse & buggies have the right of way. If you get lucky, maybe you'll be able to see these guys: http://www.electricamish.com/. \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of pam andress Sent: Monday, September 07, 2009 5:53 PM To: aquaticlife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] That Fish Place/Whoopie Pie Festival I want to go. Those look good!!!! Pam You didn't supply a link to the Whoopie Pie Festival. ;-) http://www.whoopiepiefestival.com/ I was hoping for something else but I should have know *you* wouldn't go to that kind of festival... at least not with your family. LOL \\Steve//,

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 43157	From: bill 1433	Date: 9/7/2009
Subject: Re: That Fish Place

SAZAM!!! I think Ray must have told you about my spaghetti sauce! And anything else, Italian for that matter!   Bill --- On Mon, 9/7/09, Steve Szabo <steve@...> wrote: > From: Steve Szabo <steve@...> > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] That Fish Place > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Date: Monday, September 7, 2009, 5:02 PM > Bill, > > I don't know about that, but I did notice a couple of the > tanks in the > fish room were labeled as reserve for mail order. However, > I just took a > look at the web site, and searched for some things I know > they carried, > and was only able to find one out of three, so, they have > cut back. > > Besides, a guy like you, I thought you would be more > interested in > finding out more about the Whoopie Pie Festival <g>. > > \\Steve// > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] > On Behalf Of bill 1433 > Sent: Monday, September 07, 2009 4:33 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] That Fish Place > > Thanks for the Heads Up on this Steve. May be making a > visit > within a month. Sounds along the lines of "If you don't > expect too > much, you won't be disappointed" type of thing.  Maybe > their business > has gone into the Internet and Mail Order and less walk-in > trade? > > Bill > > --- On Mon, 9/7/09, Steve Szabo <steve@...> > wrote: > > > From: Steve Szabo <steve@...> > > Subject: [AquaticLife] That Fish Place > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > Date: Monday, September 7, 2009, 2:58 PM > > A couple of weeks ago, we found > > ourselves in Lancaster, PA. Getting over > > the fact that I had arrived on the wrong weekend to > > participate in the > > Whoopie Pie Festival 2009 at the Hershey Farm > Restaurant > > & Inn, located > > in nearby Strasburg, PA, we went to That Fish Place > to > > check out the > > offerings in the retail store. For those of you who do > not > > know, That > > Fish Place is also That Pet Place, with stock and > equipment > > for other > > pets. > > > > We were both surprised to find that they had greatly > > consolidated their > > offerings, both for fish and dogs (and, also cats). > There > > was lots of > > open floor space that had previously been used for > display > > of stock. The > > stock was quite limited from what we had been used to > > seeing. We go > > about every other year while returning from our > annual > > summer visit with > > family in New England and, of course, The Hardwick > > Fair--the oldest > > continuous agricultural fair in the country (see > > http://www.hardwickfair.com). For instance, we did not > > see the open bins > > of Mother Hubbard dog treats, where I would normally > > purchase bulk dog > > treats for the treat ball one of our dogs so adores. > Also, > > I could find > > no replacement reagents for my Kordon test kits. > However, > > they still had > > the large ship wreck, in three pieces, that takes up > better > > than half of > > the bottom of a 265 gallon tank. (There is also a > smaller > > version, in > > two pieces that fits into a 125 gallon, are you > listening > > Amber? A > > couple of air stones in each half and you'd really > have > > something > > going!) > > > > It is hard to judge the fish stock, since we are such > > infrequent > > visitors, but there were not as many fish as I have > seen on > > earlier > > visits, nor the selection I am used to seeing. One > thing I > > did make note > > of was the tank of naturally colored dwarf > gouramis--a > > rarity these > > days. Unfortunately, they were all males, else I would > have > > been > > thinking how I could get them home and a tank set for > > them. > > > > Although a clerk assured us they had lots of other > stuff in > > the > > warehouse, they were not able to get us anything we > were > > looking for in > > particular that had been available on previous visits. > This > > reduction in > > stock may be the result of two trends. One is the > current > > state of the > > economy (though the down turn has not really affected > this > > area other > > than the housing market price plunge, and we saw > little > > evidence of it > > in other places we are familiar with on our trip, > other > > than the usual > > suspects, just a lot of talk about how bad things > were, > > probably mostly > > parroted from the news.) The other is the effect of > > consolidation in the > > pet industry, where most formerly independent > operations > > are now a part > > of one conglomerate or another. For instance, Mother > > Hubbard was bought > > a few years ago, and many of the treats that used to > be > > offered that I > > used in the treat ball are no longer to be found in > my > > local stores. > > > > Another effect of this consolidation I have noticed, > again > > more in the > > way of dog stuff, not fish stuff, is the degradation > of > > foods, with the > > companies reformulating their foods for cheaper > > ingredients, while > > maintaining the pricing. As a result, our dogs have > gone > > through several > > changes in diet, as my lady finds foods that are up to > her > > standards to > > fed the dogs. Read your labels, to be sure you are > getting > > what you > > think you are getting. For example, the food I had > been > > buying the cats > > (we had two back then) suddenly lost the list of > > ingredients on the > > label. When the ingredients once again appeared, > cheap > > filler > > ingredients topped the listing, and the brand of food > was > > changed to > > another to give the cats a diet like they had been > used > > to. > > > > \\Steve// > > > > > > > > > ------------------------------------ > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when > replying, Thank You. > ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> > ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> > PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is > NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of > the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new > subject (was re: old subject)" <- > <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. > , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. > > If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of > unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by > clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the home page.  > > Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com > to receive the digest, which includes up to 25 posts at a > time in a single email > > Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com > for the No E-Mail option where you will still be able to > read messages on the group and post replies. > > Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com > to receive individual e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links > > >     mailto:AquaticLife-fullfeatured@yahoogroups.com > > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 43158	From: bill 1433	Date: 9/7/2009
Subject: Re: That Fish Place

Amber, you can find close at Doctor Fosters and Smith Bill --- On Mon, 9/7/09, Amber Berglund <arberglund@...> wrote: > From: Amber Berglund <arberglund@...> > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] That Fish Place > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Date: Monday, September 7, 2009, 5:06 PM > Now if I was anywhere near PA I would > be interested in that sunken ship > set up for a 125 gallon tank, and yes I was listening ;) > LOL. > I'm sure the shipping would be horrid to get it here, most > ornaments are > fairly heavy. > > Amber > > Steve Szabo wrote: > >  > > > > Bill, > > > > I don't know about that, but I did notice a couple of > the tanks in the > > fish room were labeled as reserve for mail order. > However, I just took a > > look at the web site, and searched for some things I > know they carried, > > and was only able to find one out of three, so, they > have cut back. > > > > Besides, a guy like you, I thought you would be more > interested in > > finding out more about the Whoopie Pie Festival > <g>. > > > > \\Steve// > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] > > On Behalf Of bill 1433 > > Sent: Monday, September 07, 2009 4:33 PM > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] That Fish Place > > > > Thanks for the Heads Up on this Steve. May be making a > visit > > within a month. Sounds along the lines of "If you > don't expect too > > much, you won't be disappointed" type of thing. Maybe > their business > > has gone into the Internet and Mail Order and less > walk-in trade? > > > > Bill > > > > --- On Mon, 9/7/09, Steve Szabo <steve@... > > > <mailto:steve%40familyszabo.com>> wrote: > > > > > From: Steve Szabo <steve@... > > > <mailto:steve%40familyszabo.com>> > > > Subject: [AquaticLife] That Fish Place > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > Date: Monday, September 7, 2009, 2:58 PM > > > A couple of weeks ago, we found > > > ourselves in Lancaster, PA. Getting over > > > the fact that I had arrived on the wrong weekend > to > > > participate in the > > > Whoopie Pie Festival 2009 at the Hershey Farm > Restaurant > > > & Inn, located > > > in nearby Strasburg, PA, we went to That Fish > Place to > > > check out the > > > offerings in the retail store. For those of you > who do not > > > know, That > > > Fish Place is also That Pet Place, with stock and > equipment > > > for other > > > pets. > > > > > > We were both surprised to find that they had > greatly > > > consolidated their > > > offerings, both for fish and dogs (and, also > cats). There > > > was lots of > > > open floor space that had previously been used > for display > > > of stock. The > > > stock was quite limited from what we had been > used to > > > seeing. We go > > > about every other year while returning from our > annual > > > summer visit with > > > family in New England and, of course, The > Hardwick > > > Fair--the oldest > > > continuous agricultural fair in the country (see > > > http://www.hardwickfair.com <http://www.hardwickfair.com>). For > > instance, we did not > > > see the open bins > > > of Mother Hubbard dog treats, where I would > normally > > > purchase bulk dog > > > treats for the treat ball one of our dogs so > adores. Also, > > > I could find > > > no replacement reagents for my Kordon test kits. > However, > > > they still had > > > the large ship wreck, in three pieces, that takes > up better > > > than half of > > > the bottom of a 265 gallon tank. (There is also a > smaller > > > version, in > > > two pieces that fits into a 125 gallon, are you > listening > > > Amber? A > > > couple of air stones in each half and you'd > really have > > > something > > > going!) > > > > > > It is hard to judge the fish stock, since we are > such > > > infrequent > > > visitors, but there were not as many fish as I > have seen on > > > earlier > > > visits, nor the selection I am used to seeing. > One thing I > > > did make note > > > of was the tank of naturally colored dwarf > gouramis--a > > > rarity these > > > days. Unfortunately, they were all males, else I > would have > > > been > > > thinking how I could get them home and a tank set > for > > > them. > > > > > > Although a clerk assured us they had lots of > other stuff in > > > the > > > warehouse, they were not able to get us anything > we were > > > looking for in > > > particular that had been available on previous > visits. This > > > reduction in > > > stock may be the result of two trends. One is the > current > > > state of the > > > economy (though the down turn has not really > affected this > > > area other > > > than the housing market price plunge, and we saw > little > > > evidence of it > > > in other places we are familiar with on our trip, > other > > > than the usual > > > suspects, just a lot of talk about how bad things > were, > > > probably mostly > > > parroted from the news.) The other is the effect > of > > > consolidation in the > > > pet industry, where most formerly independent > operations > > > are now a part > > > of one conglomerate or another. For instance, > Mother > > > Hubbard was bought > > > a few years ago, and many of the treats that used > to be > > > offered that I > > > used in the treat ball are no longer to be found > in my > > > local stores. > > > > > > Another effect of this consolidation I have > noticed, again > > > more in the > > > way of dog stuff, not fish stuff, is the > degradation of > > > foods, with the > > > companies reformulating their foods for cheaper > > > ingredients, while > > > maintaining the pricing. As a result, our dogs > have gone > > > through several > > > changes in diet, as my lady finds foods that are > up to her > > > standards to > > > fed the dogs. Read your labels, to be sure you > are getting > > > what you > > > think you are getting. For example, the food I > had been > > > buying the cats > > > (we had two back then) suddenly lost the list of > > > ingredients on the > > > label. When the ingredients once again appeared, > cheap > > > filler > > > ingredients topped the listing, and the brand of > food was > > > changed to > > > another to give the cats a diet like they had > been used > > > to. > > > > > > \\Steve// > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ------------------------------------ > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when > replying, Thank You. > ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> > ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> > PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is > NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of > the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new > subject (was re: old subject)" <- > <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. > , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. > > If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of > unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by > clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the home page.  > > Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com > to receive the digest, which includes up to 25 posts at a > time in a single email > > Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com > for the No E-Mail option where you will still be able to > read messages on the group and post replies. > > Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com > to receive individual e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links > > >     mailto:AquaticLife-fullfeatured@yahoogroups.com > > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 43159	From: pam andress	Date: 9/7/2009
Subject: Re: That Fish Place/Whoopie Pie Festival

No thanks Steve. I'll stay home and save some money and not gain some weight. lol Pam To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com From: steve@... Date: Mon, 7 Sep 2009 18:15:50 -0400 Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] That Fish Place/Whoopie Pie Festival Pam, What are you waiting for? There is a ton of places to stay, what with Lancaster being right in the middle of Amish country--a big tourist draw--so it will not be hard to find a place. Just remember, the horse & buggies have the right of way. If you get lucky, maybe you'll be able to see these guys: http://www.electricamish.com/. \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of pam andress Sent: Monday, September 07, 2009 5:53 PM To: aquaticlife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] That Fish Place/Whoopie Pie Festival I want to go. Those look good!!!! Pam You didn't supply a link to the Whoopie Pie Festival. ;-) http://www.whoopiepiefestival.com/ I was hoping for something else but I should have know *you* wouldn't go to that kind of festival... at least not with your family. LOL \\Steve//, [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 43160	From: sevenspringss	Date: 9/7/2009
Subject: Re: Aquarium Heater

To start with, I would not put my trust in a Penn-Plax heater. They are of only average quality, perhaps better than some (although I can't recall just which those might be right now <G>), they're more subject to failure than some others of better quality. While your budget may be limited, and I have no idea whether it is, this is one item that the safety of your fish depend directly on day after day, and I wouldn't entrust a middle-of-the-road unit not to cook my fish for me if I could at all help it. In my opinion, an Ebo-Jager (now, Eheim Jager) is about the best heater you can buy, followed closely by Visi-Therm, their "Stealth" models. I don't know where you've "always read" that 5 Watts per gallon is a good reference point, as (1) the needed wattage depends directly on your ambient temperature, and (2) this equation is far in excess for the average situation; it is overkill under most circumstances and is a recipe for cooking your fish -- a disaster in waiting under normal conditions. I note that you state your lowest temperature as being 60 o. If this is truly the lowest temperature you may expect during the winter, then I would increase the wattage (over the normally recommended figure of 3 WATTS PER GALLON, average) -- but a better platform would be to go with a very long-standing recommendation of 2 Watts per Gallon for every 5 o you need to raise the tank's temperature above the room temperature. In your case, that would be 18 o (from 60 o to about a comfortable 78 o), but then that would be stretching the heaters ability to its absolute limits whenever the room got down to 60 o. We can safely go with 80 o as being an average upper limit you plan to need for your tank, and except for extreme colds of the room, this margin of allowing for the heater to raise the temperature some 20 o above your ambient temperature should be quite adequate -- with the potential to even go a bit higher in times of treating diseases -- at most times. So, figuring now that you'll need 8 Watts per gallon to raise the water 20 o higher than your lowest room temperature of 60 o, you'll need 440 Watts of heater capacity for your 55 gallon tank. As two smaller heaters equaling this amount are always the safest way to go, two 200 Watt heaters may just about fill the bill, but I would most definitely go with two 250 Watt heaters, since it would be extremely rare for both heaters to malfunction at the same time -- which is exactly why you'd prefer going with two heaters -- but this is only if your room does get down to that low of 60 o. Ray --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "fishdudeut" <jacknobel@...> wrote: > > I have a 55 gallon tank and I bought a Pen-Plax 300 Watt heater it said on the package it was rated for a 70 gallon aquarium. That's 4.3 watts a gallon so I was thinking for my 55 that would be 5.5 a gallon. > > Now the tank is located in our basement and the room temp in the basement is about 60-70 in the summer and winter and between 70-80 in spring and fall. As you can guess spring and fall less heat and central air is not running. > > Now I have always read 5 watts a gallon is a good reference point unless you are dealing with higher temp swings. > > My question is would 300 Watts be enough and I just ended up getting a junk heater. Should I upgrade to more watts or a better heater. I've read about keeping 2 heats going instead of one. > > http://tinyurl.com/tankheater I was thinking about getting one of these in 300 watts, but should I get two in 200 or 2 in 250 or something else al the way around. > > Same product different store http://tinyurl.com/tankheater2 > > Anyhow another newbee question. >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 43161	From: fishdudeut	Date: 9/7/2009
Subject: Re: Aquarium Heater

The part I'm the most worried about right now it the temp will go between 1 and 2 degrease from morning to night. Will that mater I keep reading you want a contest temp. Well I do it will not drop 2 degrease at one time, but is this something to worry about? --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@...> wrote: Since you have already purchased the Penn-Plax 300W heater, use it but keep an eye on it. Penn-Plax stuff isn't the best quality stuff around. A nice new design in heaters is the Rena SmartHeater http://www.drsfostersmith.com/product/prod_display.cfm?c=3578+3743+18444&pca tid=18444 which fits over your filters intake tube and replaces the intake screen so that the water has to go through the heater before entering the filter. This also hides the wire up the back of the intake tube. They're more expensive than the ones you've been looking at though. 150W SmartHeater's are regular priced at $31.99 each at DFS. These will NOT fit over the rectangular intake tubes on some of the larger Marineland Bio-Wheel HOB's but do fit over the standard 1" round intake tubes on most other filter systems. The Visi-Therm heaters you are looking at are probably a better quality than the Penn-Plax. I see they are owned/made by Instant Ocean which is generally a reputable company.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 43162	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 9/7/2009
Subject: Re: Aquarium Heater

It's OK if the temp fluctuates only 1-2F, especially if this fluctuation is slowly over time so the fish can acclimate. A 55G tank is going to be more stable than a 10G tank, as far as being affected by ambient/room temperatures. I have a blog article where I did an experiment and charted the temperature changes on a 10G tank with a simulated-failed 50W heater in the stuck-off position and then in the stuck-on position. You will see where the tank changes by more than 1F per hour and up to 2F per hour. A 55G tank would not change so quickly with a heater failure stuck-off, since it would take the ambient temp longer to affect the tank temp. Your bigger concern will be when doing 25% PWC's, to make sure your replacement water is within a few degrees (F) of the tank so that the 25% PWC does not change the temp by more than 1-2F. I use a Python water change system so during the winter, I have to refill my tanks slowly so the cold incoming water is able to be heated up by the tanks heater(s) to keep the tanks at a stable temperature... same during the hottest months of the year when my tap water might be in the low 80's. You could also set up the tank where it is sitting on some 1/2" thick foam board and have panels cut out to cover the back and two sides during the coldest periods so the ambient temperature does not affect the tank as much. These foam panels could also help save the fish in the event of a short term power failure by also putting up a front insulating panel and then covering the top with a blanket. It won't save the fish in long term power failure though. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of fishdudeut Sent: Monday, September 07, 2009 7:34 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Aquarium Heater The part I'm the most worried about right now it the temp will go between 1 and 2 degrease from morning to night. Will that mater I keep reading you want a contest temp. Well I do it will not drop 2 degrease at one time, but is this something to worry about? --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@...> wrote: Since you have already purchased the Penn-Plax 300W heater, use it but keep an eye on it. Penn-Plax stuff isn't the best quality stuff around. A nice new design in heaters is the Rena SmartHeater http://www.drsfostersmith.com/product/prod_display.cfm?c=3578+3743+18444&pca tid=18444 which fits over your filters intake tube and replaces the intake screen so that the water has to go through the heater before entering the filter. This also hides the wire up the back of the intake tube. They're more expensive than the ones you've been looking at though. 150W SmartHeater's are regular priced at $31.99 each at DFS. These will NOT fit over the rectangular intake tubes on some of the larger Marineland Bio-Wheel HOB's but do fit over the standard 1" round intake tubes on most other filter systems. The Visi-Therm heaters you are looking at are probably a better quality than the Penn-Plax. I see they are owned/made by Instant Ocean which is generally a reputable company.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 43163	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 9/7/2009
Subject: Clearwater Marine Aquarium holds contest to name its rays

I'm leaning toward X-Ray, Gamma Ray, and Ray Gun. http://www.tampabay.com/news/briefs/clearwater-marine-aquarium-holds-con test-to-name-its-rays/1034225 http://tinyurl.com/m23srl \\Steve//

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 43164	From: fishdudeut	Date: 9/7/2009
Subject: Re: Aquarium Heater

The 60 degree would be a rare thing I thinks it's been that cold one or two times other than when the power is out. I'd say mid sixty is typical the coldest it gets in the winter time. Have you personal used any of the Eheim Jager. I've read some great reviews and some not so great reviews since the switched names. Now after reading some reviews on the Aquarium Systems Visi-Therm Stealth Heater. You find some mix reviews there so I guess you have to take them all with a grain of salt. So if we were talking 15 or 16 degrees temp increase I'm guessing by your figures 2 200 watt heaters would work. Like I stated in my last post it's had to keep the water temp steady with that POS Penn-Plax. Should of never bought it. I guess I'll be ordering something better I have had troubles getting my tank to cycle and really don't want to fry or freeze the fish. --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "sevenspringss" <sevenspringss@...> wrote: > > To start with, I would not put my trust in a Penn-Plax heater. They are of only average quality, perhaps better than some (although I can't recall just which those might be right now <G>), they're more subject to failure than some others of better quality. While your budget may be limited, and I have no idea whether it is, this is one item that the safety of your fish depend directly on day after day, and I wouldn't entrust a middle-of-the-road unit not to cook my fish for me if I could at all help it. In my opinion, an Ebo-Jager (now, Eheim Jager) is about the best heater you can buy, followed closely by Visi-Therm, their "Stealth" models. > > I don't know where you've "always read" that 5 Watts per gallon is a good reference point, as (1) the needed wattage depends directly on your ambient temperature, and (2) this equation is far in excess for the average situation; it is overkill under most circumstances and is a recipe for cooking your fish -- a disaster in waiting under normal conditions. > > I note that you state your lowest temperature as being 60 o. If this is truly the lowest temperature you may expect during the winter, then I would increase the wattage (over the normally recommended figure of 3 WATTS PER GALLON, average) -- but a better platform would be to go with a very long-standing recommendation of 2 Watts per Gallon for every 5 o you need to raise the tank's temperature above the room temperature. > > In your case, that would be 18 o (from 60 o to about a comfortable 78 o), but then that would be stretching the heaters ability to its absolute limits whenever the room got down to 60 o. We can safely go with 80 o as being an average upper limit you plan to need for your tank, and except for extreme colds of the room, this margin of allowing for the heater to raise the temperature some 20 o above your ambient temperature should be quite adequate -- with the potential to even go a bit higher in times of treating diseases -- at most times. > > So, figuring now that you'll need 8 Watts per gallon to raise the water 20 o higher than your lowest room temperature of 60 o, you'll need 440 Watts of heater capacity for your 55 gallon tank. As two smaller heaters equaling this amount are always the safest way to go, two 200 Watt heaters may just about fill the bill, but I would most definitely go with two 250 Watt heaters, since it would be extremely rare for both heaters to malfunction at the same time -- which is exactly why you'd prefer going with two heaters -- but this is only if your room does get down to that low of 60 o. Ray > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "fishdudeut" <jacknobel@> wrote: > > > > I have a 55 gallon tank and I bought a Pen-Plax 300 Watt heater it said on the package it was rated for a 70 gallon aquarium. That's 4.3 watts a gallon so I was thinking for my 55 that would be 5.5 a gallon. > > > > Now the tank is located in our basement and the room temp in the basement is about 60-70 in the summer and winter and between 70-80 in spring and fall. As you can guess spring and fall less heat and central air is not running. > > > > Now I have always read 5 watts a gallon is a good reference point unless you are dealing with higher temp swings. > > > > My question is would 300 Watts be enough and I just ended up getting a junk heater. Should I upgrade to more watts or a better heater. I've read about keeping 2 heats going instead of one. > > > > http://tinyurl.com/tankheater I was thinking about getting one of these in 300 watts, but should I get two in 200 or 2 in 250 or something else al the way around. > > > > Same product different store http://tinyurl.com/tankheater2 > > > > Anyhow another newbee question. > > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 43165	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 9/7/2009
Subject: Re: Clearwater Marine Aquarium holds contest to name its rays

One of the males can be named Raymoooooond, since they are "cownose stingrays". Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Steve Szabo Sent: Monday, September 07, 2009 9:34 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Clearwater Marine Aquarium holds contest to name its rays I'm leaning toward X-Ray, Gamma Ray, and Ray Gun. http://www.tampabay.com/news/briefs/clearwater-marine-aquarium-holds-con test-to-name-its-rays/1034225 http://tinyurl.com/m23srl \\Steve//

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 43166	From: sevenspringss@wmconnect.com	Date: 9/7/2009
Subject: Re: Aquarium Heater

Whether the possible 60 o temperature is a rare thing or not, if you want to be prepared for it (knowing this drop will be coming) you'd need to go with two 250 Watt heaters if you want to maintain your 78 o tank temperatures at those times. Worst case scenario, if you have two 200 Watt heaters and the room dips to 60 o, you can expect the tank's temperature to drop to 73 o or so -- possibly a little higher as there's always room built in for some extra heating, albeit, the heaters may be working full time during those periods. Figuring heating your tank from an ambient temperature of the mid-60's (let's use 65 o), then you'd need at least 330 Watts (6 Watts per gallon) to be able to boost the tank to 80 o. Two 200 Watt heaters would more than cover that nicely, but not by an unsafe margin as they're working separately, preventing overheating. The 70 Watt difference (400 Watts minus 330 Watts) is roughly equivilent to 1 more Watt per gallon, allowing for an extra boost of almost 2.5 o when/if both heaters are on at the same time. When the power goes out though, no size heater will be of any help. I've used both Ebo Jager and Visi-Therm (Stealth) heaters with equal satisfaction. Actually, I prefer the Visi-Therms, but friends of mine prefer Ebo Jager, and rightly so. I've never had the opportunity to use the newer Eheim Jager heaters though since I already have the earlier Ebo Jagers. So, I really can't comment on the Eheim heater although I understand they've kept the same high quality. Whatever heater you buy, NONE will be completely failure proof. Even the best heaters such as Ebo Jager and Visi-Therm have been known to fail. Looking at it another way, anything made by made may fail. They don't have specialized Rolls Royce repair garages for nothing; they're put to good use as the circumstances require. So, yes, you need to take these reports with a grain of salt, but better quality heaters will last much longer and will be least likely to fail. One further note, at more normal, average room temperatures (say, 70 o) a 55 gallon tank cannot lose its heat all that rapidly due to its larger volume, the temperature tends to remain more stable. Depending on the wattage of the heaters, they may be able to increase the temperature at a slightly greater rate, but again it wouldn't be catastrophic. A temp swing of 1 or 2 degees over the course of the day is immaterial and of little consequence. We often perform PWC's at up to 2 o difference in a lower temperature in efforts to stimulate our fish into spawning -- replicating an extended rainstorm, although this PWC (of perhaps up to 50%, on these more infrequent occasions) can only decrease the tank's temperature by 1/2 to 1 o by the very nature of their partial volume. Ray [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 43167	From: sevenspringss@wmconnect.com	Date: 9/7/2009
Subject: Re: Aquarium Heater

That's -- Anything made by MAN can fail. (hope that makes more sense). Ray [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 43168	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 9/8/2009
Subject: Re: That Fish Place

Ahh, believe it or not I already have half of that in their smaller size (I think it's recommended for a 55 gallon tank maybe?), I got the back half of the ship ;) Thanks for the link Steve :) Amber Steve Szabo wrote: > > > Amber, > > Here is your link: > http://www.thatpetplace.com/pet/group/7396/product.web > <http://www.thatpetplace.com/pet/group/7396/product.web> > > \\Steve// > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On Behalf Of Amber Berglund > Sent: Monday, September 07, 2009 5:06 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] That Fish Place > > Now if I was anywhere near PA I would be interested in that sunken ship > set up for a 125 gallon tank, and yes I was listening ;) LOL. > I'm sure the shipping would be horrid to get it here, most ornaments are > fairly heavy. > > Amber > > Steve Szabo wrote: > > > > > > Bill, > > > > I don't know about that, but I did notice a couple of the tanks in the > > fish room were labeled as reserve for mail order. However, I just took a > > look at the web site, and searched for some things I know they carried, > > and was only able to find one out of three, so, they have cut back. > > > > Besides, a guy like you, I thought you would be more interested in > > finding out more about the Whoopie Pie Festival <g>. > > > > \\Steve// > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] > > On Behalf Of bill 1433 > > Sent: Monday, September 07, 2009 4:33 PM > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] That Fish Place > > > > Thanks for the Heads Up on this Steve. May be making a visit > > within a month. Sounds along the lines of "If you don't expect too > > much, you won't be disappointed" type of thing. Maybe their business > > has gone into the Internet and Mail Order and less walk-in trade? > > > > Bill > > > > --- On Mon, 9/7/09, Steve Szabo <steve@... > <mailto:steve%40familyszabo.com> > > <mailto:steve%40familyszabo.com>> wrote: > > > > > From: Steve Szabo <steve@... > <mailto:steve%40familyszabo.com> > > <mailto:steve%40familyszabo.com>> > > > Subject: [AquaticLife] That Fish Place > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > Date: Monday, September 7, 2009, 2:58 PM > > > A couple of weeks ago, we found > > > ourselves in Lancaster, PA. Getting over > > > the fact that I had arrived on the wrong weekend to > > > participate in the > > > Whoopie Pie Festival 2009 at the Hershey Farm Restaurant > > > & Inn, located > > > in nearby Strasburg, PA, we went to That Fish Place to > > > check out the > > > offerings in the retail store. For those of you who do not > > > know, That > > > Fish Place is also That Pet Place, with stock and equipment > > > for other > > > pets. > > > > > > We were both surprised to find that they had greatly > > > consolidated their > > > offerings, both for fish and dogs (and, also cats). There > > > was lots of > > > open floor space that had previously been used for display > > > of stock. The > > > stock was quite limited from what we had been used to > > > seeing. We go > > > about every other year while returning from our annual > > > summer visit with > > > family in New England and, of course, The Hardwick > > > Fair--the oldest > > > continuous agricultural fair in the country (see > > > http://www.hardwickfair.com <http://www.hardwickfair.com> > <http://www.hardwickfair.com <http://www.hardwickfair.com>>). For > > instance, we did not > > > see the open bins > > > of Mother Hubbard dog treats, where I would normally > > > purchase bulk dog > > > treats for the treat ball one of our dogs so adores. Also, > > > I could find > > > no replacement reagents for my Kordon test kits. However, > > > they still had > > > the large ship wreck, in three pieces, that takes up better > > > than half of > > > the bottom of a 265 gallon tank. (There is also a smaller > > > version, in > > > two pieces that fits into a 125 gallon, are you listening > > > Amber? A > > > couple of air stones in each half and you'd really have > > > something > > > going!) > > > > > > It is hard to judge the fish stock, since we are such > > > infrequent > > > visitors, but there were not as many fish as I have seen on > > > earlier > > > visits, nor the selection I am used to seeing. One thing I > > > did make note > > > of was the tank of naturally colored dwarf gouramis--a > > > rarity these > > > days. Unfortunately, they were all males, else I would have > > > been > > > thinking how I could get them home and a tank set for > > > them. > > > > > > Although a clerk assured us they had lots of other stuff in > > > the > > > warehouse, they were not able to get us anything we were > > > looking for in > > > particular that had been available on previous visits. This > > > reduction in > > > stock may be the result of two trends. One is the current > > > state of the > > > economy (though the down turn has not really affected this > > > area other > > > than the housing market price plunge, and we saw little > > > evidence of it > > > in other places we are familiar with on our trip, other > > > than the usual > > > suspects, just a lot of talk about how bad things were, > > > probably mostly > > > parroted from the news.) The other is the effect of > > > consolidation in the > > > pet industry, where most formerly independent operations > > > are now a part > > > of one conglomerate or another. For instance, Mother > > > Hubbard was bought > > > a few years ago, and many of the treats that used to be > > > offered that I > > > used in the treat ball are no longer to be found in my > > > local stores. > > > > > > Another effect of this consolidation I have noticed, again > > > more in the > > > way of dog stuff, not fish stuff, is the degradation of > > > foods, with the > > > companies reformulating their foods for cheaper > > > ingredients, while > > > maintaining the pricing. As a result, our dogs have gone > > > through several > > > changes in diet, as my lady finds foods that are up to her > > > standards to > > > fed the dogs. Read your labels, to be sure you are getting > > > what you > > > think you are getting. For example, the food I had been > > > buying the cats > > > (we had two back then) suddenly lost the list of > > > ingredients on the > > > label. When the ingredients once again appeared, cheap > > > filler > > > ingredients topped the listing, and the brand of food was > > > changed to > > > another to give the cats a diet like they had been used > > > to. > > > > > > \\Steve// > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ------------------------------------ > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. > ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> > PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT > important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message > MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- > <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. > > If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of unsubscribing, > you can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My > Membership" on the home page. > > Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:aquaticlife-digest%40yahoogroups.com> to receive the digest, > which includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email > > Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:aquaticlife-nomail%40yahoogroups.com> for the No E-Mail option > where you will still be able to read messages on the group and post > replies. > > Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:aquaticlife-normal%40yahoogroups.com> to receive individual > e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 43169	From: Gwydryn@aol.com	Date: 9/8/2009
Subject: Re: Aquarium Heater

Ray, my experience is that not only the safety of your fish, but your own is at stake here. I had one running, for some reason I woke up at 2 am, and got online. I heard a "buzz" sound, and the dogs went to looking to the den, I was in an adjacent room were the computer is... seconds later, another "buzz", so I went to check just as the plug sparked and caught on fire. The heater, including the power filters were all connected to a surge protector, so it was just a matter of unplugging and separating the filter plugs from the smoldering surge protector. To make a long story short, had I not woken when I did, the house would have caught on fire, never mind the fish broth. Enid In a message dated 9/7/2009 7:53:42 P.M. Central Daylight Time, sevenspringss@... writes: To start with, I would not put my trust in a Penn-Plax heater. They are of only average quality, perhaps better than some (although I can't recall just which those might be right now <G>), they're more subject to failure than some others of better quality. While your budget may be limited, and I have no idea whether it is, this is one item that the safety of your fish depend directly on day after day, and I wouldn't entrust a middle-of-the-), they're more subject to failure than some others of better quality. While your budget may be limited, and I have no idea whether it is, this is one item that the safety of your fish depend directly on "Life is not about waiting for the storms to pass...it's about learning how to dance in the rain." [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 43170	From: jimpat101	Date: 9/8/2009
Subject: Alge on glass problem...

What to you use to remove the alge from the glass? I bought a plastic scraper for the LFS,that will take months to remove the alge with... Any ideas? Thanks, Jim

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 43171	From: bill 1433	Date: 9/8/2009
Subject: Re: Alge on glass problem...

Jim,   I just use a plain 100% cotton white wash cloth.  You can buy them at any discount store for like 50 cents.  Works fine for me and no scratches on the glass either!   Bill --- On Tue, 9/8/09, jimpat101 <Jpateson@...> wrote: From: jimpat101 <Jpateson@...> Subject: [AquaticLife] Alge on glass problem... To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Date: Tuesday, September 8, 2009, 11:45 AM What to you use to remove the alge from the glass?  I bought a plastic scraper for the LFS,that will take months to remove the alge with... Any ideas? Thanks, Jim ------------------------------------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the home page.  Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com to receive the digest, which includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com for the No E-Mail option where you will still be able to read messages on the group and post replies. Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com to receive individual e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 43172	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 9/8/2009
Subject: Re: Alge on glass problem...

Wow... months? You must have a lot of algae. What kind of algae do you have? Is this a FW or SW tank? I seem to remember you have a FW tank but I wanted to be sure. Usually, for glass tanks, you can use a razor blade scraper, just be careful around the corners with the silicone. With acrylic tanks, you would have to use a plastic scraper as a razor blade would scratch or cut into the acrylic. Old credit cards work great too. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of jimpat101 Sent: Tuesday, September 08, 2009 10:45 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Alge on glass problem... What to you use to remove the alge from the glass? I bought a plastic scraper for the LFS,that will take months to remove the alge with... Any ideas? Thanks, Jim

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 43173	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 9/8/2009
Subject: Re: Alge on glass problem...

I personally like the magnetic "mag-floats" where you don't have to get your hands wet ;) Not only that but it holds most of the algae in the little bristles on the scraper side so you can just rinse it off after you pull it out of the tank. Amber Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > > > Wow... months? You must have a lot of algae. What kind of algae do you > have? Is this a FW or SW tank? I seem to remember you have a FW tank but I > wanted to be sure. > > Usually, for glass tanks, you can use a razor blade scraper, just be > careful > around the corners with the silicone. With acrylic tanks, you would > have to > use a plastic scraper as a razor blade would scratch or cut into the > acrylic. Old credit cards work great too. > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right > side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On > Behalf Of jimpat101 > Sent: Tuesday, September 08, 2009 10:45 AM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Subject: [AquaticLife] Alge on glass problem... > > What to you use to remove the alge from the glass? I bought a plastic > scraper for the LFS,that will take months to remove the alge with... > Any ideas? > > Thanks, > > Jim > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 43174	From: biG poppa	Date: 9/8/2009
Subject: Re: Alge on glass problem...

i tried the magfloat on my 55g and it scrached the hell out of the glass will never use it again..i have a natural solution for algea is call 4 inch pleco,,,,lol --- On Tue, 9/8/09, Amber Berglund <arberglund@...> wrote: From: Amber Berglund <arberglund@...> Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Alge on glass problem... To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Date: Tuesday, September 8, 2009, 2:58 PM   I personally like the magnetic "mag-floats" where you don't have to get your hands wet ;) Not only that but it holds most of the algae in the little bristles on the scraper side so you can just rinse it off after you pull it out of the tank. Amber Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > > > Wow... months? You must have a lot of algae. What kind of algae do you > have? Is this a FW or SW tank? I seem to remember you have a FW tank but I > wanted to be sure. > > Usually, for glass tanks, you can use a razor blade scraper, just be > careful > around the corners with the silicone. With acrylic tanks, you would > have to > use a plastic scraper as a razor blade would scratch or cut into the > acrylic. Old credit cards work great too. > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com <http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com> > (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right > side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com > <mailto:AquaticLife %40yahoogroups. com> > [mailto:AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com > <mailto:AquaticLife %40yahoogroups. com>] On > Behalf Of jimpat101 > Sent: Tuesday, September 08, 2009 10:45 AM > To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com <mailto:AquaticLife %40yahoogroups. com> > Subject: [AquaticLife] Alge on glass problem... > > What to you use to remove the alge from the glass? I bought a plastic > scraper for the LFS,that will take months to remove the alge with... > Any ideas? > > Thanks, > > Jim > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 43175	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 9/8/2009
Subject: Re: Alge on glass problem...

The only time I've heard of this happening is with acrylic tanks or with sand type substrate where the sand would get caught between the magnets. Something I failed to mention in my first reply would be to try and figure out the cause of all this algae and then work on fixing the cause so it's not so hard to clean up, as needed, in the future. Jim, Tell us more about your tank, stocking levels, tank and filter maintenance, water parameters (ammonia, nitrite, nitrate, pH, etc.) Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of biG poppa Sent: Tuesday, September 08, 2009 2:36 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Alge on glass problem... i tried the magfloat on my 55g and it scrached the hell out of the glass will never use it again..i have a natural solution for algea is call 4 inch pleco,,,,lol --- On Tue, 9/8/09, Amber Berglund <arberglund@...> wrote: From: Amber Berglund <arberglund@...> Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Alge on glass problem... To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Date: Tuesday, September 8, 2009, 2:58 PM   I personally like the magnetic "mag-floats" where you don't have to get your hands wet ;) Not only that but it holds most of the algae in the little bristles on the scraper side so you can just rinse it off after you pull it out of the tank. Amber Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > > > Wow... months? You must have a lot of algae. What kind of algae do you > have? Is this a FW or SW tank? I seem to remember you have a FW tank > but I wanted to be sure. > > Usually, for glass tanks, you can use a razor blade scraper, just be > careful around the corners with the silicone. With acrylic tanks, you > would have to use a plastic scraper as a razor blade would scratch or > cut into the acrylic. Old credit cards work great too. > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com <http://GoldLenny. > blogspot. com> (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are > listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under > Archives by Year, Month) > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com > <mailto:AquaticLife %40yahoogroups. com> [mailto:AquaticLife@ > yahoogroups. com <mailto:AquaticLife %40yahoogroups. com>] On Behalf > Of jimpat101 > Sent: Tuesday, September 08, 2009 10:45 AM > To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com <mailto:AquaticLife %40yahoogroups. > com> > Subject: [AquaticLife] Alge on glass problem... > > What to you use to remove the alge from the glass? I bought a plastic > scraper for the LFS,that will take months to remove the alge with... > Any ideas? > > Thanks, > > Jim

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 43176	From: biG poppa	Date: 9/8/2009
Subject: Re: Alge on glass problem...

Maybe because it was a saltwater setup before? --- On Tue, 9/8/09, Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@...> wrote: From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@...> Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Alge on glass problem... To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Date: Tuesday, September 8, 2009, 4:31 PM   The only time I've heard of this happening is with acrylic tanks or with sand type substrate where the sand would get caught between the magnets. Something I failed to mention in my first reply would be to try and figure out the cause of all this algae and then work on fixing the cause so it's not so hard to clean up, as needed, in the future. Jim, Tell us more about your tank, stocking levels, tank and filter maintenance, water parameters (ammonia, nitrite, nitrate, pH, etc.) Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com [mailto:AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com] On Behalf Of biG poppa Sent: Tuesday, September 08, 2009 2:36 PM To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Alge on glass problem... i tried the magfloat on my 55g and it scrached the hell out of the glass will never use it again..i have a natural solution for algea is call 4 inch pleco,,,,lol --- On Tue, 9/8/09, Amber Berglund <arberglund@gmail. com> wrote: From: Amber Berglund <arberglund@gmail. com> Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Alge on glass problem... To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com Date: Tuesday, September 8, 2009, 2:58 PM   I personally like the magnetic "mag-floats" where you don't have to get your hands wet ;) Not only that but it holds most of the algae in the little bristles on the scraper side so you can just rinse it off after you pull it out of the tank. Amber Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > > > Wow... months? You must have a lot of algae. What kind of algae do you > have? Is this a FW or SW tank? I seem to remember you have a FW tank > but I wanted to be sure. > > Usually, for glass tanks, you can use a razor blade scraper, just be > careful around the corners with the silicone. With acrylic tanks, you > would have to use a plastic scraper as a razor blade would scratch or > cut into the acrylic. Old credit cards work great too. > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com <http://GoldLenny. > blogspot. com> (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are > listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under > Archives by Year, Month) > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com > <mailto:AquaticLife %40yahoogroups. com> [mailto:AquaticLife @ > yahoogroups. com <mailto:AquaticLife %40yahoogroups. com>] On Behalf > Of jimpat101 > Sent: Tuesday, September 08, 2009 10:45 AM > To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com <mailto:AquaticLife %40yahoogroups. > com> > Subject: [AquaticLife] Alge on glass problem... > > What to you use to remove the alge from the glass? I bought a plastic > scraper for the LFS,that will take months to remove the alge with... > Any ideas? > > Thanks, > > Jim [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 43177	From: fishdudeut	Date: 9/8/2009
Subject: Tap Water Base Line.

Hello. I decided to do a new base line on my water (my tank is cycling as we speak) I tested for everything the 2nd time around and My finish test day was this Ammonia .25 Nitrite .25 Nitrate 5.0 The other 2 days they were 0.00 all but Ammonia and that was .25 I have one of those 55 gallon water drums and that is where I was planning on keeping water for water changes. I pumped out each day to a gallon water jug that has had nothing in it but water. I'm wondering if this is normal to read o nitrate and nitrite for 48 hours and then on the 72 house test they are there? I set up 3 gallon in a 5 gallon bucket and the test as of today are Ammonia .25 Nitrate 0 Nitrite 0 Guess I just need to see if the barrel is causing any problems.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 43178	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 9/8/2009
Subject: UV filter

Okay, it seems like every time I unplug my UV filter from my 125 gallon tank fish start dieing in it. Is this because of some sort of bacteria die off or something maybe? I don't change anything else that I'm doing, my filter cleanings are rotated so that I clean 2 of the filters each week and do a water change. I've lost a couple of my ram's and one of my hillstream loaches. My dwarf gourami is also bloated all of a sudden, I'm going to feed peas tonight to see if that helps, I can put him in a 10 gallon by himself if I need to (have one cycled and ready when needed). I didn't run tests yet this week since I saw the dead fish but other than the bloated gourami no one else is acting oddly. I have to clean the filters tonight and do a water change, I will try to remember to run my tests before I do so ;) LOL. I have some Maracyn 2 handy but it doesn't look like it helps for an internal bacteria infection if that's what the gourami has. My LFS has awful selection on meds, I can usually find better at the local hardware/feed store, LOL. I had some guppy's give birth a little while ago, perhaps the gourami gorged himself on baby guppies? Besides an Epsom salt bath are there any other suggestions besides feeding shelled peas? Amber

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 43179	From: cat.rose	Date: 9/8/2009
Subject: Strange creatures in my tank

I just noticed these teeny tiny things crawling on the glass inside my tank. They sort of look like snails without the shell or the antennas - kind of worm-like. As I'm typing this I just spotted several crawling on the heater - looks like they have a triangular head. Are these bad? Thanks, Catherine

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 43180	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 9/8/2009
Subject: Re: Tap Water Base Line.

Since you have some ammonia in your tap water, probably from the chloramine and then when you use your dechlor, it leaves a little residual ammonia, then while this water is sitting in your 55G drum, you obviously have some nitrifying bacteria living on the walls of the drum and they convert the ammonia to nitrite and then to nitrate while the water is sitting there. The 5G bucket, which hasn't been sitting around long term, does not have nitrifying bacteria growing on it's walls. This is also why so many folks have nitrates in their tap water.. due to nitrification of ammonia (from the chloramine) while it's still in the city pipes or underground springs, if a well. Is this a plastic or metal drum? What was it used for before? Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of fishdudeut Sent: Tuesday, September 08, 2009 4:44 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Tap Water Base Line. Hello. I decided to do a new base line on my water (my tank is cycling as we speak) I tested for everything the 2nd time around and My finish test day was this Ammonia .25 Nitrite .25 Nitrate 5.0 The other 2 days they were 0.00 all but Ammonia and that was .25 I have one of those 55 gallon water drums and that is where I was planning on keeping water for water changes. I pumped out each day to a gallon water jug that has had nothing in it but water. I'm wondering if this is normal to read o nitrate and nitrite for 48 hours and then on the 72 house test they are there? I set up 3 gallon in a 5 gallon bucket and the test as of today are Ammonia .25 Nitrate 0 Nitrite 0 Guess I just need to see if the barrel is causing any problems.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 43181	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 9/8/2009
Subject: Re: Strange creatures in my tank

Catherine, Look up planaria. The description you give sounds like you have planaria in your tank. They can be present when there is an excess of food available. \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of cat.rose Sent: Tuesday, September 08, 2009 10:15 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Strange creatures in my tank I just noticed these teeny tiny things crawling on the glass inside my tank. They sort of look like snails without the shell or the antennas - kind of worm-like. As I'm typing this I just spotted several crawling on the heater - looks like they have a triangular head. Are these bad? Thanks, Catherine

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 43182	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 9/8/2009
Subject: Re: UV filter

I think it's a catch-22 that you are in. Here's my theory... What happens is that when you run the UV filter on the water, it kills all water borne micro-organisms, both good ones and the bad ones too, so the fish get use to living in this pristine water and then when you turn off the UV filter, these micro-organisms return (naturally) and since the fish have no immunity or resistance to the, they start to get sick. It's kind of like what happens to kids (and adults) nowadays since they stay inside so much, houses and offices are climate controlled and air-tight, etc., so people do not build up immunities like we did years ago when kids played outside all the time, playing in mud-puddles, making mud-pies, falling in dog poo when playing sports, etc. Nothing builds character better than landing face first into a big pile after catching that fly ball or touchdown. LOL I guess up there in Alaska, it would be a big pile of Moose poo. LOL Nowadays, parents and schools are getting even worse with kids, with the H1N1 virus and they are using all these anti-bacterial soaps, hand lotions, teaching kids to cough into their elbows, etc. What ever happened to just rubbing your runny nose with your hand and then finishing that sandwich with mayonnaise and luncheon meat that has been sitting at room temperature in your lunch box/bag since early this morning? Now, "Those were the days!" http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0d8FTPv955I The next generation will get sick even easier due to all the crap being done about H1N1 today. OK.. back to the fish... You need to either run the UV all the time or slowly start weaning them off of the UV filtered water. Going cold-turkey might work for most of the fish but some of the ones with weaker immune systems might get sick.. as you are seeing. For now, start running the UV filter again and treat the symptoms. Unless you saw the Gourami gorging on guppy fry, I would suspect it to be an internal bacterial issue which Gourami's are prone to anyhow. I've used Melafix/Pimafix cocktail for treating this issue on one of my Gourami's after Katrina. While Melafix is a mild antibacterial and Pimafix is a an antifungal treatment, when combined as a cocktail, it turns into a much stronger antibacterial treatment. If you have both of them, you could move the Gourami to a H-tank and treat him. You could also observe his poop to get more information about what is bothering him. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Amber Berglund Sent: Tuesday, September 08, 2009 6:14 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] UV filter Okay, it seems like every time I unplug my UV filter from my 125 gallon tank fish start dieing in it. Is this because of some sort of bacteria die off or something maybe? I don't change anything else that I'm doing, my filter cleanings are rotated so that I clean 2 of the filters each week and do a water change. I've lost a couple of my ram's and one of my hillstream loaches. My dwarf gourami is also bloated all of a sudden, I'm going to feed peas tonight to see if that helps, I can put him in a 10 gallon by himself if I need to (have one cycled and ready when needed). I didn't run tests yet this week since I saw the dead fish but other than the bloated gourami no one else is acting oddly. I have to clean the filters tonight and do a water change, I will try to remember to run my tests before I do so ;) LOL. I have some Maracyn 2 handy but it doesn't look like it helps for an internal bacteria infection if that's what the gourami has. My LFS has awful selection on meds, I can usually find better at the local hardware/feed store, LOL. I had some guppy's give birth a little while ago, perhaps the gourami gorged himself on baby guppies? Besides an Epsom salt bath are there any other suggestions besides feeding shelled peas? Amber

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 43183	From: Dora Smith	Date: 9/8/2009
Subject: Re: Alge on glass problem...

Algae is with you always. Just clean it. ;) Yours, Dora Smith Austin, TX tiggernut24@... ----- Original Message ----- From: "biG poppa" <greychildren@...> To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Tuesday, September 08, 2009 4:29 PM Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Alge on glass problem... Maybe because it was a saltwater setup before? --- On Tue, 9/8/09, Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@...> wrote: From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@...> Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Alge on glass problem... To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Date: Tuesday, September 8, 2009, 4:31 PM The only time I've heard of this happening is with acrylic tanks or with sand type substrate where the sand would get caught between the magnets. Something I failed to mention in my first reply would be to try and figure out the cause of all this algae and then work on fixing the cause so it's not so hard to clean up, as needed, in the future. Jim, Tell us more about your tank, stocking levels, tank and filter maintenance, water parameters (ammonia, nitrite, nitrate, pH, etc.) Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com [mailto:AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com] On Behalf Of biG poppa Sent: Tuesday, September 08, 2009 2:36 PM To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Alge on glass problem... i tried the magfloat on my 55g and it scrached the hell out of the glass will never use it again..i have a natural solution for algea is call 4 inch pleco,,,,lol --- On Tue, 9/8/09, Amber Berglund <arberglund@gmail. com> wrote: From: Amber Berglund <arberglund@gmail. com> Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Alge on glass problem... To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com Date: Tuesday, September 8, 2009, 2:58 PM I personally like the magnetic "mag-floats" where you don't have to get your hands wet ;) Not only that but it holds most of the algae in the little bristles on the scraper side so you can just rinse it off after you pull it out of the tank. Amber Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > > > Wow... months? You must have a lot of algae. What kind of algae do you > have? Is this a FW or SW tank? I seem to remember you have a FW tank > but I wanted to be sure. > > Usually, for glass tanks, you can use a razor blade scraper, just be > careful around the corners with the silicone. With acrylic tanks, you > would have to use a plastic scraper as a razor blade would scratch or > cut into the acrylic. Old credit cards work great too. > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com <http://GoldLenny. > blogspot. com> (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are > listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under > Archives by Year, Month) > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com > <mailto:AquaticLife %40yahoogroups. com> [mailto:AquaticLife @ > yahoogroups. com <mailto:AquaticLife %40yahoogroups. com>] On Behalf > Of jimpat101 > Sent: Tuesday, September 08, 2009 10:45 AM > To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com <mailto:AquaticLife %40yahoogroups. > com> > Subject: [AquaticLife] Alge on glass problem... > > What to you use to remove the alge from the glass? I bought a plastic > scraper for the LFS,that will take months to remove the alge with... > Any ideas? > > Thanks, > > Jim [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] ------------------------------------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the home page. Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com to receive the digest, which includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com for the No E-Mail option where you will still be able to read messages on the group and post replies. Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com to receive individual e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 43184	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 9/8/2009
Subject: Re: Strange creatures in my tank

You start off saying they look like snails but then go towards worm-like. It sounds like Planaria, especially since you mention the triangular head. While Planaria are not harmful, most fish will not eat them. They are actually a sign that you have too much detritus built up in your gravel. You need to start vacuuming your gravel better and the Planaria will slowly die off. Here's more on Planaria... http://www3.sympatico.ca/drosera1/fish/worms.htm#planaria Scroll up to the top of the page to read up on more about all the other "Worms" that show up in our aquariums. I have other pages of all of the other "critters" that show up. Let me know if this is what you have. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of cat.rose Sent: Tuesday, September 08, 2009 9:15 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Strange creatures in my tank I just noticed these teeny tiny things crawling on the glass inside my tank. They sort of look like snails without the shell or the antennas - kind of worm-like. As I'm typing this I just spotted several crawling on the heater - looks like they have a triangular head. Are these bad? Thanks, Catherine

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 43185	From: fishdudeut	Date: 9/8/2009
Subject: Re: Tap Water Base Line.

The barrel is about a month old and nothing been it it but water. Will this still be using for the water changes when the tank is cycled? Or will this pretty much be a no go? Would running an AIR stone in the barrel make any kid of difference? --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@...> wrote: > > Since you have some ammonia in your tap water, probably from the chloramine > and then when you use your dechlor, it leaves a little residual ammonia, > then while this water is sitting in your 55G drum, you obviously have some > nitrifying bacteria living on the walls of the drum and they convert the > ammonia to nitrite and then to nitrate while the water is sitting there. > The 5G bucket, which hasn't been sitting around long term, does not have > nitrifying bacteria growing on it's walls. > > This is also why so many folks have nitrates in their tap water.. due to > nitrification of ammonia (from the chloramine) while it's still in the city > pipes or underground springs, if a well. > > Is this a plastic or metal drum? What was it used for before? > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right > side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) > > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On > Behalf Of fishdudeut > Sent: Tuesday, September 08, 2009 4:44 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Subject: [AquaticLife] Tap Water Base Line. > > Hello. I decided to do a new base line on my water (my tank is cycling as we > speak) > > I tested for everything the 2nd time around and > > My finish test day was this > > Ammonia .25 > Nitrite .25 > Nitrate 5.0 > > The other 2 days they were 0.00 all but Ammonia and that was .25 > > I have one of those 55 gallon water drums and that is where I was planning > on keeping water for water changes. I pumped out each day to a gallon water > jug that has had nothing in it but water. > > I'm wondering if this is normal to read o nitrate and nitrite for 48 hours > and then on the 72 house test they are there? > > I set up 3 gallon in a 5 gallon bucket and the test as of today are > > Ammonia .25 > Nitrate 0 > Nitrite 0 > > Guess I just need to see if the barrel is causing any problems. >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 43186	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 9/8/2009
Subject: Re: UV filter

Lenny, You sure you did not mean to point to a video like this one - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3h6jw4Fni-w Or this: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xT36zXWdsvM&feature=related http://tinyurl.com/cn6pw5 Or even this 10 minute one: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ah5vK-PMEeM&feature=related http://tinyurl.com/mpos22 \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Lenny V. aka GoldLenny Sent: Tuesday, September 08, 2009 11:43 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] UV filter I think it's a catch-22 that you are in. Here's my theory... What happens is that when you run the UV filter on the water, it kills all water borne micro-organisms, both good ones and the bad ones too, so the fish get use to living in this pristine water and then when you turn off the UV filter, these micro-organisms return (naturally) and since the fish have no immunity or resistance to the, they start to get sick. It's kind of like what happens to kids (and adults) nowadays since they stay inside so much, houses and offices are climate controlled and air-tight, etc., so people do not build up immunities like we did years ago when kids played outside all the time, playing in mud-puddles, making mud-pies, falling in dog poo when playing sports, etc. Nothing builds character better than landing face first into a big pile after catching that fly ball or touchdown. LOL I guess up there in Alaska, it would be a big pile of Moose poo. LOL Nowadays, parents and schools are getting even worse with kids, with the H1N1 virus and they are using all these anti-bacterial soaps, hand lotions, teaching kids to cough into their elbows, etc. What ever happened to just rubbing your runny nose with your hand and then finishing that sandwich with mayonnaise and luncheon meat that has been sitting at room temperature in your lunch box/bag since early this morning? Now, "Those were the days!" http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0d8FTPv955I The next generation will get sick even easier due to all the crap being done about H1N1 today. OK.. back to the fish... You need to either run the UV all the time or slowly start weaning them off of the UV filtered water. Going cold-turkey might work for most of the fish but some of the ones with weaker immune systems might get sick.. as you are seeing. For now, start running the UV filter again and treat the symptoms. Unless you saw the Gourami gorging on guppy fry, I would suspect it to be an internal bacterial issue which Gourami's are prone to anyhow. I've used Melafix/Pimafix cocktail for treating this issue on one of my Gourami's after Katrina. While Melafix is a mild antibacterial and Pimafix is a an antifungal treatment, when combined as a cocktail, it turns into a much stronger antibacterial treatment. If you have both of them, you could move the Gourami to a H-tank and treat him. You could also observe his poop to get more information about what is bothering him. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Amber Berglund Sent: Tuesday, September 08, 2009 6:14 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] UV filter Okay, it seems like every time I unplug my UV filter from my 125 gallon tank fish start dieing in it. Is this because of some sort of bacteria die off or something maybe? I don't change anything else that I'm doing, my filter cleanings are rotated so that I clean 2 of the filters each week and do a water change. I've lost a couple of my ram's and one of my hillstream loaches. My dwarf gourami is also bloated all of a sudden, I'm going to feed peas tonight to see if that helps, I can put him in a 10 gallon by himself if I need to (have one cycled and ready when needed). I didn't run tests yet this week since I saw the dead fish but other than the bloated gourami no one else is acting oddly. I have to clean the filters tonight and do a water change, I will try to remember to run my tests before I do so ;) LOL. I have some Maracyn 2 handy but it doesn't look like it helps for an internal bacteria infection if that's what the gourami has. My LFS has awful selection on meds, I can usually find better at the local hardware/feed store, LOL. I had some guppy's give birth a little while ago, perhaps the gourami gorged himself on baby guppies? Besides an Epsom salt bath are there any other suggestions besides feeding shelled peas? Amber

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 43187	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 9/8/2009
Subject: Re: Tap Water Base Line.

More than likely, the barrel is not the issue but nothing wrong with checking it out. Plastic or metal barrel? I'm not sure if it matters but it could, especially since there are various grades of barrels depending on their intended use. Did you buy this barrel or get it somewhere for free... and let us know where? Running an airstone would help if you were having issues with your tap water having a high CO2 or other dissolved gas issue but I haven't seen this as an issue with any of your tap water test results so I do NOT think running an airstone is necessary. Where is this barrel kept? Is it covered to prevent contamination if any contamination is possible? Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of fishdudeut Sent: Tuesday, September 08, 2009 10:40 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Tap Water Base Line. The barrel is about a month old and nothing been it it but water. Will this still be using for the water changes when the tank is cycled? Or will this pretty much be a no go? Would running an AIR stone in the barrel make any kid of difference? --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@...> wrote: > > Since you have some ammonia in your tap water, probably from the > chloramine and then when you use your dechlor, it leaves a little > residual ammonia, then while this water is sitting in your 55G drum, > you obviously have some nitrifying bacteria living on the walls of the > drum and they convert the ammonia to nitrite and then to nitrate while the water is sitting there. > The 5G bucket, which hasn't been sitting around long term, does not > have nitrifying bacteria growing on it's walls. > > This is also why so many folks have nitrates in their tap water.. due > to nitrification of ammonia (from the chloramine) while it's still in > the city pipes or underground springs, if a well. > > Is this a plastic or metal drum? What was it used for before? > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles > referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically > under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) > > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] > On Behalf Of fishdudeut > Sent: Tuesday, September 08, 2009 4:44 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Subject: [AquaticLife] Tap Water Base Line. > > Hello. I decided to do a new base line on my water (my tank is cycling > as we > speak) > > I tested for everything the 2nd time around and > > My finish test day was this > > Ammonia .25 > Nitrite .25 > Nitrate 5.0 > > The other 2 days they were 0.00 all but Ammonia and that was .25 > > I have one of those 55 gallon water drums and that is where I was > planning on keeping water for water changes. I pumped out each day to > a gallon water jug that has had nothing in it but water. > > I'm wondering if this is normal to read o nitrate and nitrite for 48 > hours and then on the 72 house test they are there? > > I set up 3 gallon in a 5 gallon bucket and the test as of today are > > Ammonia .25 > Nitrate 0 > Nitrite 0 > > Guess I just need to see if the barrel is causing any problems.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 43188	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 9/8/2009
Subject: Re: UV filter

Okay I did a water change and some tank cleaning tonight, and I also turned the UV filter back on for now. I will pull the gourami out and put him in the 10 gallon with some mela/pimafix, hopefully it helps. He's huge and it's just over the weekend, I gave peas this weekend but he didn't eat any of them that I could see. And he's getting worse. I don't know if the UV filter would help him or not, should I keep him in the tank with the UV filter or move him? Amber Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > > > I think it's a catch-22 that you are in. Here's my theory... > > What happens is that when you run the UV filter on the water, it kills all > water borne micro-organisms, both good ones and the bad ones too, so the > fish get use to living in this pristine water and then when you turn > off the > UV filter, these micro-organisms return (naturally) and since the fish > have > no immunity or resistance to the, they start to get sick. > > It's kind of like what happens to kids (and adults) nowadays since > they stay > inside so much, houses and offices are climate controlled and air-tight, > etc., so people do not build up immunities like we did years ago when kids > played outside all the time, playing in mud-puddles, making mud-pies, > falling in dog poo when playing sports, etc. Nothing builds character > better than landing face first into a big pile after catching that fly > ball > or touchdown. LOL I guess up there in Alaska, it would be a big pile of > Moose poo. LOL > > Nowadays, parents and schools are getting even worse with kids, with the > H1N1 virus and they are using all these anti-bacterial soaps, hand > lotions, > teaching kids to cough into their elbows, etc. What ever happened to just > rubbing your runny nose with your hand and then finishing that > sandwich with > mayonnaise and luncheon meat that has been sitting at room temperature in > your lunch box/bag since early this morning? > > Now, "Those were the days!" http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0d8FTPv955I > <http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0d8FTPv955I> > > The next generation will get sick even easier due to all the crap > being done > about H1N1 today. > > OK.. back to the fish... > > You need to either run the UV all the time or slowly start weaning > them off > of the UV filtered water. Going cold-turkey might work for most of the > fish > but some of the ones with weaker immune systems might get sick.. as > you are > seeing. > > For now, start running the UV filter again and treat the symptoms. Unless > you saw the Gourami gorging on guppy fry, I would suspect it to be an > internal bacterial issue which Gourami's are prone to anyhow. I've used > Melafix/Pimafix cocktail for treating this issue on one of my Gourami's > after Katrina. While Melafix is a mild antibacterial and Pimafix is a an > antifungal treatment, when combined as a cocktail, it turns into a much > stronger antibacterial treatment. If you have both of them, you could move > the Gourami to a H-tank and treat him. You could also observe his poop to > get more information about what is bothering him. > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right > side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On > Behalf Of Amber Berglund > Sent: Tuesday, September 08, 2009 6:14 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Subject: [AquaticLife] UV filter > > Okay, it seems like every time I unplug my UV filter from my 125 > gallon tank > fish start dieing in it. Is this because of some sort of bacteria die > off or > something maybe? I don't change anything else that I'm doing, my filter > cleanings are rotated so that I clean 2 of the filters each week and do a > water change. I've lost a couple of my ram's and one of my hillstream > loaches. My dwarf gourami is also bloated all of a sudden, I'm going > to feed > peas tonight to see if that helps, I can put him in a 10 gallon by himself > if I need to (have one cycled and ready when needed). > I didn't run tests yet this week since I saw the dead fish but other than > the bloated gourami no one else is acting oddly. I have to clean the > filters > tonight and do a water change, I will try to remember to run my tests > before > I do so ;) LOL. > I have some Maracyn 2 handy but it doesn't look like it helps for an > internal bacteria infection if that's what the gourami has. My LFS has > awful > selection on meds, I can usually find better at the local hardware/feed > store, LOL. > I had some guppy's give birth a little while ago, perhaps the gourami > gorged > himself on baby guppies? > Besides an Epsom salt bath are there any other suggestions besides feeding > shelled peas? > > Amber > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 43189	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 9/9/2009
Subject: Re: UV filter

No. The UV will not help him. It's not going to kill the bacteria inside him. The Melafix/Pimafix cocktail will kill the waterborne bacteria and also work on the bacteria inside him. Something I might have expected you to know, but failed to mention in my previous post, is that you should use only 1/2 doses of these medications with labyrinth fish. The strong smell hovers over the water and affects them when they breathe at the surface so instead of adding a full dose of each, cut it back 50% to two 25% doses the first day, to slowly build up potency in the water, and then 50% doses each day on follow-up treatments. If you see the fish showing more distress with breathing, do a 25% PWC and cut back the dosing to only 25% dosage of each, each day through the treatment period. I've used it at 50% dosages with no adverse effects on my gourami but every fish is different. I was just re-reading your original post and I see that you do have Maracyn 2 on hand.. right? This would be better than the Melafix/Pimafix mentioned above. Maracyn 2 is a gram-negative antibiotic and most bacterial issues with fish are gram-negative and I was just looking at the directions on DrsFosterSmith.com and it says that it treats internal infections and for fish that will not eat. Remember to remove any carbon or other chemical filtration from the filter and NO UV filtration when medicating a tank either. Do not mix the Mela/Pimafix cocktail with the Maracyn 2. Use the Maracyn 2 first and then if that does not fix him up fully and you run out of it, then you could do a series of PWC's and then start the Mela/Pimafix cocktail. I'm not sure how much Maracyn 2 you have but at least with treating only a 10G tank, it will be more cost effective. I priced it once for my 65G and the price wasn't pretty. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Amber Berglund Sent: Wednesday, September 09, 2009 1:33 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] UV filter Okay I did a water change and some tank cleaning tonight, and I also turned the UV filter back on for now. I will pull the gourami out and put him in the 10 gallon with some mela/pimafix, hopefully it helps. He's huge and it's just over the weekend, I gave peas this weekend but he didn't eat any of them that I could see. And he's getting worse. I don't know if the UV filter would help him or not, should I keep him in the tank with the UV filter or move him? Amber Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > > > I think it's a catch-22 that you are in. Here's my theory... > > What happens is that when you run the UV filter on the water, it kills > all water borne micro-organisms, both good ones and the bad ones too, > so the fish get use to living in this pristine water and then when you > turn off the UV filter, these micro-organisms return (naturally) and > since the fish have no immunity or resistance to them, they start to > get sick. > > It's kind of like what happens to kids (and adults) nowadays since > they stay inside so much, houses and offices are climate controlled > and air-tight, etc., so people do not build up immunities like we did > years ago when kids played outside all the time, playing in > mud-puddles, making mud-pies, falling in dog poo when playing sports, > etc. Nothing builds character better than landing face first into a > big pile after catching that fly ball or touchdown. LOL I guess up > there in Alaska, it would be a big pile of Moose poo. LOL > > Nowadays, parents and schools are getting even worse with kids, with > the > H1N1 virus and they are using all these anti-bacterial soaps, hand > lotions, teaching kids to cough into their elbows, etc. What ever > happened to just rubbing your runny nose with your hand and then > finishing that sandwich with mayonnaise and luncheon meat that has > been sitting at room temperature in your lunch box/bag since early > this morning? > > Now, "Those were the days!" http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0d8FTPv955I > <http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0d8FTPv955I> > > The next generation will get sick even easier due to all the crap > being done about H1N1 today. > > OK.. back to the fish... > > You need to either run the UV all the time or slowly start weaning > them off of the UV filtered water. Going cold-turkey might work for > most of the fish but some of the ones with weaker immune systems might > get sick.. as you are seeing. > > For now, start running the UV filter again and treat the symptoms. > Unless you saw the Gourami gorging on guppy fry, I would suspect it to > be an internal bacterial issue which Gourami's are prone to anyhow. > I've used Melafix/Pimafix cocktail for treating this issue on one of > my Gourami's after Katrina. While Melafix is a mild antibacterial and > Pimafix is a an antifungal treatment, when combined as a cocktail, it > turns into a much stronger antibacterial treatment. If you have both > of them, you could move the Gourami to a H-tank and treat him. You > could also observe his poop to get more information about what is bothering him. > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> (Links to any articles referenced in > above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels > and also under Archives by Year, Month) > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On Behalf Of Amber Berglund > Sent: Tuesday, September 08, 2009 6:14 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Subject: [AquaticLife] UV filter > > Okay, it seems like every time I unplug my UV filter from my 125 > gallon tank fish start dieing in it. Is this because of some sort of > bacteria die off or something maybe? I don't change anything else that > I'm doing, my filter cleanings are rotated so that I clean 2 of the > filters each week and do a water change. I've lost a couple of my > ram's and one of my hillstream loaches. My dwarf gourami is also > bloated all of a sudden, I'm going to feed peas tonight to see if that > helps, I can put him in a 10 gallon by himself if I need to (have one > cycled and ready when needed). > I didn't run tests yet this week since I saw the dead fish but other > than the bloated gourami no one else is acting oddly. I have to clean > the filters tonight and do a water change, I will try to remember to > run my tests before I do so ;) LOL. > I have some Maracyn 2 handy but it doesn't look like it helps for an > internal bacteria infection if that's what the gourami has. My LFS has > awful selection on meds, I can usually find better at the local > hardware/feed store, LOL. > I had some guppy's give birth a little while ago, perhaps the gourami > gorged himself on baby guppies? > Besides an Epsom salt bath are there any other suggestions besides > feeding shelled peas? > > Amber

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 43190	From: kuradi8	Date: 9/9/2009
Subject: Re: Alge on glass problem...

How about an algae eater or pl*co? This is more for floating algae, but how about more aeration? If your tank is getting too much light, how about some automotive window tinting? (The smaller the number%, the darker the tint.) And this is a dangerous way to infect your fish but how about hand scraping using an old credit card? Wash your hand and arm well beforehand and be sure to rinse thoroughly to remove any soap residue, etc. If compatible, I still vote for an algae eater or pl*co. ~Kai --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "jimpat101" <Jpateson@...> wrote: > > > What to you use to remove the algae from the glass? I bought a plastic scraper for the LFS,that will take months to remove the algae with... > Any ideas? > > Thanks, > > Jim >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 43191	From: jimpat101	Date: 9/9/2009
Subject: Algae problem......

Thanks for all the advice.. The tank is FW, 72 gal. I change 20% a week and clean the filter once a month. I going with the razor blade as the plastic scraper just takes to long to get tha algae off.. The tank gets some indirect sun most of the day.. Jim

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 43192	From: kuradi8	Date: 9/9/2009
Subject: Re: Air Pumps

I've been shopping online, especially on ebay (people bid crazy high over Labor Day Weekend) and now I have new questions. My top contenders at the moment are the Tetra AP300 and the Rena 400. The AP300 will only tell me that it's 7.5w. All the other specs are well guarded secrets. The Rena 400 is 8w and claims to put out 2x200 liters/hour. BUT... That's only 3.3 liters/minute and I've seen other "no-name" units for smaller tanks claiming as much as 8 liters/minute. So I question whether that's the right spec for me to be looking at. (Kinda like a large car with a small engine boasting about the number of cup-holders.) The Rena 400's online operator's manual shows it runs 4" and 6" air stones. So what would I need for my dual 24" curtain wands? A Sears automotive shop compressor??? OK, rant over. (And now I hope you understand my confusion.) So... How do I pick an air pump? What is the most important spec? Wattage? Liters per hour/minute? PSI? Thanks in advance for your help. :o) ~Kai > On September 9, Kai wrote: > > I bought a Whisper-60 for my 55g about a year ago and I'm disappointed with its output. I had two 24" curtain wands and thought they might have been too old/clogged so I replaced them with two 4" disks. They are also wimpy-wimpy-wimpy in their output. One just "sizzles" a little air, the other "blurps" a big bubble every 10 seconds or so. > > I think it's the air pump's fault. It started out weak and seems to have gotten worse. I would like to replace it with something with a bit more horsepower. Any recommendations? > ~Kai > (Pennsylvania) >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 43193	From: Jpateson@aol.com	Date: 9/9/2009
Subject: Re: Alge on glass problem...

Kai, I have a pleco, but, the algae is spotty on the glass and hard to scrape off, the plastic scraper is like a credit card and it takes 3 to 4 passes to get off, which is why I want to go to the razor blade. Tinting is not an option as the tank is in the living room and I don't think my wife would go for it. I also have one of those tank scrubbers, it does no good....... Jim In a message dated 9/9/2009 8:08:23 A.M. Central Daylight Time, kuradi8@... writes: How about an algae eater or pl*co? This is more for floating algae, but how about more aeration? If your tank is getting too much light, how about some automotive window tinting? (The smaller the number%, the darker the tint.) And this is a dangerous way to infect your fish but how about hand scraping using an old credit card? Wash your hand and arm well beforehand and be sure to rinse thoroughly to remove any soap residue, etc. If compatible, I still vote for an algae eater or pl*co. ~Kai --- In _AquaticLife@AquaticLife@Aqu_ (mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com) , "jimpat101" <Jpateson@..J> wrote: > > > What to you use to remove the algae from the glass? I bought a plastic scraper for the LFS,that will take months to remove the algae with... > Any ideas? > > Thanks, > > Jim > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 43194	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 9/9/2009
Subject: Re: UV filter

I have 2 packets enough to treat 10 gallons twice, for now. I will move him over to the 10 gallon today and start treatments with the maracyn 2 first and see how it helps. The package didn't say anything about internal parasites so I figured it only helped with external issues. Thanks for clearing that up. Do I need to worry about how much I dose with my gourami or will he not be sensitive to maracyn 2? I knew about the pima/melafix being too strong for them already though, but thanks for reminding me, I may have forgotten when it came time to dose the tank ;) LOL. Amber Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > > > No. The UV will not help him. It's not going to kill the bacteria inside > him. The Melafix/Pimafix cocktail will kill the waterborne bacteria and > also work on the bacteria inside him. > > Something I might have expected you to know, but failed to mention in my > previous post, is that you should use only 1/2 doses of these medications > with labyrinth fish. The strong smell hovers over the water and affects > them when they breathe at the surface so instead of adding a full dose of > each, cut it back 50% to two 25% doses the first day, to slowly build up > potency in the water, and then 50% doses each day on follow-up treatments. > If you see the fish showing more distress with breathing, do a 25% PWC and > cut back the dosing to only 25% dosage of each, each day through the > treatment period. I've used it at 50% dosages with no adverse effects > on my > gourami but every fish is different. > > I was just re-reading your original post and I see that you do have > Maracyn > 2 on hand.. right? This would be better than the Melafix/Pimafix mentioned > above. Maracyn 2 is a gram-negative antibiotic and most bacterial issues > with fish are gram-negative and I was just looking at the directions on > DrsFosterSmith.com and it says that it treats internal infections and for > fish that will not eat. Remember to remove any carbon or other chemical > filtration from the filter and NO UV filtration when medicating a tank > either. Do not mix the Mela/Pimafix cocktail with the Maracyn 2. Use the > Maracyn 2 first and then if that does not fix him up fully and you run out > of it, then you could do a series of PWC's and then start the Mela/Pimafix > cocktail. I'm not sure how much Maracyn 2 you have but at least with > treating only a 10G tank, it will be more cost effective. I priced it once > for my 65G and the price wasn't pretty. > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right > side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On > Behalf Of Amber Berglund > Sent: Wednesday, September 09, 2009 1:33 AM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] UV filter > > Okay I did a water change and some tank cleaning tonight, and I also > turned > the UV filter back on for now. I will pull the gourami out and put him in > the 10 gallon with some mela/pimafix, hopefully it helps. > He's huge and it's just over the weekend, I gave peas this weekend but he > didn't eat any of them that I could see. And he's getting worse. I don't > know if the UV filter would help him or not, should I keep him in the tank > with the UV filter or move him? > > Amber > > Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > > > > > > I think it's a catch-22 that you are in. Here's my theory... > > > > What happens is that when you run the UV filter on the water, it kills > > all water borne micro-organisms, both good ones and the bad ones too, > > so the fish get use to living in this pristine water and then when you > > turn off the UV filter, these micro-organisms return (naturally) and > > since the fish have no immunity or resistance to them, they start to > > get sick. > > > > It's kind of like what happens to kids (and adults) nowadays since > > they stay inside so much, houses and offices are climate controlled > > and air-tight, etc., so people do not build up immunities like we did > > years ago when kids played outside all the time, playing in > > mud-puddles, making mud-pies, falling in dog poo when playing sports, > > etc. Nothing builds character better than landing face first into a > > big pile after catching that fly ball or touchdown. LOL I guess up > > there in Alaska, it would be a big pile of Moose poo. LOL > > > > Nowadays, parents and schools are getting even worse with kids, with > > the > > H1N1 virus and they are using all these anti-bacterial soaps, hand > > lotions, teaching kids to cough into their elbows, etc. What ever > > happened to just rubbing your runny nose with your hand and then > > finishing that sandwich with mayonnaise and luncheon meat that has > > been sitting at room temperature in your lunch box/bag since early > > this morning? > > > > Now, "Those were the days!" > http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0d8FTPv955I > <http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0d8FTPv955I> > > <http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0d8FTPv955I > <http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0d8FTPv955I>> > > > > The next generation will get sick even easier due to all the crap > > being done about H1N1 today. > > > > OK.. back to the fish... > > > > You need to either run the UV all the time or slowly start weaning > > them off of the UV filtered water. Going cold-turkey might work for > > most of the fish but some of the ones with weaker immune systems might > > get sick.. as you are seeing. > > > > For now, start running the UV filter again and treat the symptoms. > > Unless you saw the Gourami gorging on guppy fry, I would suspect it to > > be an internal bacterial issue which Gourami's are prone to anyhow. > > I've used Melafix/Pimafix cocktail for treating this issue on one of > > my Gourami's after Katrina. While Melafix is a mild antibacterial and > > Pimafix is a an antifungal treatment, when combined as a cocktail, it > > turns into a much stronger antibacterial treatment. If you have both > > of them, you could move the Gourami to a H-tank and treat him. You > > could also observe his poop to get more information about what is > bothering him. > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>> > (Links to any articles referenced in > > above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels > > and also under Archives by Year, Month) > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On Behalf Of Amber Berglund > > Sent: Tuesday, September 08, 2009 6:14 PM > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > Subject: [AquaticLife] UV filter > > > > Okay, it seems like every time I unplug my UV filter from my 125 > > gallon tank fish start dieing in it. Is this because of some sort of > > bacteria die off or something maybe? I don't change anything else that > > I'm doing, my filter cleanings are rotated so that I clean 2 of the > > filters each week and do a water change. I've lost a couple of my > > ram's and one of my hillstream loaches. My dwarf gourami is also > > bloated all of a sudden, I'm going to feed peas tonight to see if that > > helps, I can put him in a 10 gallon by himself if I need to (have one > > cycled and ready when needed). > > I didn't run tests yet this week since I saw the dead fish but other > > than the bloated gourami no one else is acting oddly. I have to clean > > the filters tonight and do a water change, I will try to remember to > > run my tests before I do so ;) LOL. > > I have some Maracyn 2 handy but it doesn't look like it helps for an > > internal bacteria infection if that's what the gourami has. My LFS has > > awful selection on meds, I can usually find better at the local > > hardware/feed store, LOL. > > I had some guppy's give birth a little while ago, perhaps the gourami > > gorged himself on baby guppies? > > Besides an Epsom salt bath are there any other suggestions besides > > feeding shelled peas? > > > > Amber > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 43195	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 9/9/2009
Subject: Re: Alge on glass problem...

I have 4 algae eaters in my 55 gallon tank and they hardly touch the algae on the glass (they're BN pleco's), perhaps they're just too busy chewing on the driftwood instead ;) Either way I still have to scrape the front of my tank. Amber kuradi8 wrote: > > > How about an algae eater or pl*co? > > This is more for floating algae, but how about more aeration? > > If your tank is getting too much light, how about some automotive > window tinting? (The smaller the number%, the darker the tint.) > > And this is a dangerous way to infect your fish but how about hand > scraping using an old credit card? Wash your hand and arm well > beforehand and be sure to rinse thoroughly to remove any soap residue, > etc. > > If compatible, I still vote for an algae eater or pl*co. > ~Kai > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>, "jimpat101" <Jpateson@...> wrote: > > > > > > What to you use to remove the algae from the glass? I bought a > plastic scraper for the LFS,that will take months to remove the algae > with... > > Any ideas? > > > > Thanks, > > > > Jim > > > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 43196	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 9/9/2009
Subject: Henderson Morley announces KHV vaccine results - (over 90% successfu

Henderson Morley announces KHV vaccine results - Biotechnology company Henderson Morley has announced successful results from its vaccine against the fish disease Koi Herpes Virus (KHV). Henderson Morley claims that field studies, undertaken by a sub-contracted research facility, have produced 'positive results' with 93% and 96% of vaccinated fish remaining healthy and surviving exposure to KHV. Read more here... http://www.practicalfishkeeping.co.uk/pfk/pages/item.php?news=2197 Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month)

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 43197	From: kuradi8	Date: 9/9/2009
Subject: Re: Alge on glass problem...

Dang, Jim! You've got some STRONG and stubborn algae! FWI: I used 37% tinting (lets 37% of the light through) on the two sides and it doesn't look bad. My living/dining area is very bright, especially in the winter when there are no leaves on the trees and the sun reflects off the snow. I've had no algae problems since I put the tinting on. ~Kai > Jim wrote: > > Kai, > > I have a pleco, but, the algae is spotty on the glass and hard to scrape > off, the plastic scraper is like a credit card and it takes 3 to 4 passes to > get off, which is why I want to go to the razor blade. Tinting is not an > option as the tank is in the living room and I don't think my wife would go > for it. I also have one of those tank scrubbers, it does no good....... > > Jim > > > > > > Kai wrote: > > How about an algae eater or pl*co? > > This is more for floating algae, but how about more aeration? > > If your tank is getting too much light, how about some automotive window > tinting? (The smaller the number%, the darker the tint.) > > And this is a dangerous way to infect your fish but how about hand > scraping using an old credit card? Wash your hand and arm well beforehand and be > sure to rinse thoroughly to remove any soap residue, etc. > > If compatible, I still vote for an algae eater or pl*co. > ~Kai > > > Jim wrote: > > > > What to you use to remove the algae from the glass? I bought a plastic > scraper for the LFS,that will take months to remove the algae with... > > Any ideas? > > > > Thanks, > > > > Jim > > > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 43198	From: Kevin Boyle	Date: 9/9/2009
Subject: Re: Air Pumps

http://www.jehmco.com/html/diaphragm_air_pumps.html#DAPMH8-15 this is what finally worked for me, runs six very large airstones with air leftover, it's a little more money but has an actual metal housing, inside it's very well built! i went through a lot of so called "high output" air pumps 'till i found this. my tanks are all really deep and i need volume and pressure, this pump gives me both. (i have an 8, know someone who has the 15,  - more air  but also runs hotter because if the increased coil size) ----- Original Message ----- From: "kuradi8" <kuradi8@...> To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Wednesday, September 9, 2009 9:19:09 AM GMT -05:00 US/Canada Eastern Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Air Pumps   I've been shopping online, especially on ebay (people bid crazy high over Labor Day Weekend) and now I have new questions. My top contenders at the moment are the Tetra AP300 and the Rena 400. The AP300 will only tell me that it's 7.5w. All the other specs are well guarded secrets. The Rena 400 is 8w and claims to put out 2x200 liters/hour. BUT... That's only 3.3 liters/minute and I've seen other "no-name" units for smaller tanks claiming as much as 8 liters/minute. So I question whether that's the right spec for me to be looking at. (Kinda like a large car with a small engine boasting about the number of cup-holders.) The Rena 400's online operator's manual shows it runs 4" and 6" air stones. So what would I need for my dual 24" curtain wands? A Sears automotive shop compressor??? OK, rant over. (And now I hope you understand my confusion.) So... How do I pick an air pump? What is the most important spec? Wattage? Liters per hour/minute? PSI? Thanks in advance for your help. :o) ~Kai > On September 9, Kai wrote: > > I bought a Whisper-60 for my 55g about a year ago and I'm disappointed with its output. I had two 24" curtain wands and thought they might have been too old/clogged so I replaced them with two 4" disks. They are also wimpy-wimpy-wimpy in their output. One just "sizzles" a little air, the other "blurps" a big bubble every 10 seconds or so. > > I think it's the air pump's fault. It started out weak and seems to have gotten worse. I would like to replace it with something with a bit more horsepower. Any recommendations? > ~Kai > (Pennsylvania) > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 43199	From: kuradi8	Date: 9/9/2009
Subject: Dear Moderator(s)

Dear Moderator(s) I see that you need to approve EVERY message that we submit to be posted. It's a lot of work for you and the impatient ones among us (me) often get a little frustrated at the lack of instant gratification because we (I) want a quick reply. I belong to several other Yahoo Groups and they are set up so that the regular active members (of which we seem to have quite a few) can post automatically. Only newcomers and inactive members need to go through moderator approval. How do you feel about changing this Group to that sort of a system? ~Kai PS - You don't have to post this for everyone to see unless you want their opinions too.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 43200	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 9/9/2009
Subject: Re: Algae problem......

You should probably clean your filter more often. I'm presuming you are vacuuming your gravel with each weekly PWC? Leaving detritus in a filter for a month WILL result in a lot of the detritus dissolving back into the water column which is likely a BIG contributor to your algae problems. This dissolved detritus is part of what are called DOC's (Dissolved Organic Compounds) but it's basically just liquefied poo in your water... aka Diarrhea. Algae is a single celled plant and various animal's poo is used as fertilizer for plants so this dissolved poo in your water column is helping to feed your algae problem. What are your nitrate readings before each PWC and before doing your filter maintenance? Do you have live plants? If yes, they would help to lower the nitrate levels but the dissolved poo and other DOC's are not the same as nitrates so you would still have lots of other nutrients in your water feeding the plants... and algae. I know that in the "old days", it was common to do monthly water changes and filter maintenance but we've learned so much more about the science and ecology of our fish tanks to know that it's not good to leave this old funky water or decaying detritus in our tanks for so long. Further, in the "old days", most fish keepers used lots of live plants which went a LONG way towards keeping the water naturally filtered.. something many do not do today with the advent of plastic and silk plants. Live plants will also compete with the algae for the excess nutrients in the water column. The sunlight, even if indirect is also a MAJOR contributor to your algae issue. Close the curtains or move the tank and you will see a MAJOR reduction in the amount of algae. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of jimpat101 Sent: Wednesday, September 09, 2009 7:57 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Algae problem...... Thanks for all the advice.. The tank is FW, 72 gal. I change 20% a week and clean the filter once a month. I going with the razor blade as the plastic scraper just takes to long to get tha algae off.. The tank gets some indirect sun most of the day.. Jim

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 43201	From: bill 1433	Date: 9/9/2009
Subject: Re: Dear Moderator(s)

Hi Kai,   I am not a moderator but I do know that these rules are in place for a reason, usually against "spammers" to protect both you as well as the group.   If a quick response is required it may pay you to write directly to someone within the group.   Finally, I just found out last night that even though I was responding directly to a person and not the group, Yahoo Mail still made me type in one of those "Flash Gordon" codes to even send the mail through.   Just some food for thought,   Bill --- On Wed, 9/9/09, kuradi8 <kuradi8@...> wrote: From: kuradi8 <kuradi8@...> Subject: [AquaticLife] Dear Moderator(s) To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Date: Wednesday, September 9, 2009, 11:16 AM Dear Moderator(s) I see that you need to approve EVERY message that we submit to be posted.  It's a lot of work for you and the impatient ones among us (me) often get a little frustrated at the lack of instant gratification because we (I) want a quick reply.  I belong to several other Yahoo Groups and they are set up so that the regular active members (of which we seem to have quite a few) can post automatically.  Only newcomers and inactive members need to go through moderator approval. How do you feel about changing this Group to that sort of a system? ~Kai PS - You don't have to post this for everyone to see unless you want their opinions too. ------------------------------------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the home page.  Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com to receive the digest, which includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com for the No E-Mail option where you will still be able to read messages on the group and post replies. Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com to receive individual e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 43202	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 9/9/2009
Subject: Re: Alge on glass problem...

Jim, Since you are leaning towards the razor blade, if you have a Harbor Freight store in your area, they often have these on sale cheap, especially if you are signed up for Harbor Freight's couple email where they send out dozens of coupons for stuff at about 1/2 off their regular prices. They are both about a foot long so you would still have to get your hands wet but This one uses a longer and stronger blade than a razor blade and covers more real estate a lot faster than a regular sized blade. http://www.harborfreight.com/cpi/ctaf/displayitem.taf?Itemnumber=98381 This one uses the regular single edged razor blades. http://www.harborfreight.com/cpi/ctaf/displayitem.taf?Itemnumber=94036 I use the top one around my house for scraping the tape off of windows after each hurricane (or season if it's a busy one). I use a plastic scraper on my 65G goldfish tank since it's an acrylic tank. I keep hoping my little Clown Pleco will start to do the job better but I think the 65G is just too much real estate for him and he's not getting as big as I thought he would get. Maybe I got a runt. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Jpateson@... Sent: Wednesday, September 09, 2009 8:21 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: Alge on glass problem... Kai, I have a pleco, but, the algae is spotty on the glass and hard to scrape off, the plastic scraper is like a credit card and it takes 3 to 4 passes to get off, which is why I want to go to the razor blade. Tinting is not an option as the tank is in the living room and I don't think my wife would go for it. I also have one of those tank scrubbers, it does no good....... Jim In a message dated 9/9/2009 8:08:23 A.M. Central Daylight Time, kuradi8@... writes: How about an algae eater or pl*co? This is more for floating algae, but how about more aeration? If your tank is getting too much light, how about some automotive window tinting? (The smaller the number%, the darker the tint.) And this is a dangerous way to infect your fish but how about hand scraping using an old credit card? Wash your hand and arm well beforehand and be sure to rinse thoroughly to remove any soap residue, etc. If compatible, I still vote for an algae eater or pl*co. ~Kai --- In _AquaticLife@AquaticLife@Aqu_ (mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com) , "jimpat101" <Jpateson@..J> wrote: > > > What to you use to remove the algae from the glass? I bought a plastic scraper for the LFS,that will take months to remove the algae with... > Any ideas? > > Thanks, > > Jim >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 43203	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 9/9/2009
Subject: Re: Air Pumps

I would go with Rena over Tetra as a general rule.. although there's always a chance that Tetra could make quality air pumps. You would have to Google user reviews and compare warranties to find out for sure. Air pumps have more to do with the depth of your tank, rather than the size of your air stone. (almost sounds like one of them motion in the ocean sayings.. lol) It takes work to push air under water so a deeper tank needs a much stronger air pump. It's nothing to do with watts or liters per minute if the pump can't push the air down to the depths that you might need. How deep is your tank? My 65G goldfish tank is only 17" deep (48" x 18" footprint) and I have a Rena Air 300 that I used on the tank, with a 2' long bubble wand, when I first set it up and only had one filter system. I quit using it after I increased my filtration... but it had plenty of power to push the air to create a huge micro bubble curtain on the back of the glass. I even had to throttle it back a little if I remember correctly. I tested a few air pumps before deciding on the Rena. I like it. It's a little noisy, as are most air pumps but I found that by sitting it on a small piece of carpeting, that made it almost as quiet as a mouse and I figured the carpeting would also help to filter out dust/dirt before it got to the little filter pad on the bottom of the unit... which should be cleaned or changed as needed. Here's the DFS page on Rena Air Pumps and you can read the Overview and More Info tabs for better details. http://www.drsfostersmith.com/product/prod_display.cfm?pcatid=3724 Remember to get an anti-siphon valve for your pump if you are going to be placing the pump below the water line. If you place the pump on a shelf above the tank, you do not need the anti-siphon valve. Also consider the heating/cooling benefits of an air pump. If the pump is placed high in a room, it will be sucking in warmer air than if it's on the floor where it will be sucking in cooler air. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of kuradi8 Sent: Wednesday, September 09, 2009 8:19 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Air Pumps I've been shopping online, especially on ebay (people bid crazy high over Labor Day Weekend) and now I have new questions. My top contenders at the moment are the Tetra AP300 and the Rena 400. The AP300 will only tell me that it's 7.5w. All the other specs are well guarded secrets. The Rena 400 is 8w and claims to put out 2x200 liters/hour. BUT... That's only 3.3 liters/minute and I've seen other "no-name" units for smaller tanks claiming as much as 8 liters/minute. So I question whether that's the right spec for me to be looking at. (Kinda like a large car with a small engine boasting about the number of cup-holders.) The Rena 400's online operator's manual shows it runs 4" and 6" air stones. So what would I need for my dual 24" curtain wands? A Sears automotive shop compressor??? OK, rant over. (And now I hope you understand my confusion.) So... How do I pick an air pump? What is the most important spec? Wattage? Liters per hour/minute? PSI? Thanks in advance for your help. :o) ~Kai > On September 9, Kai wrote: > > I bought a Whisper-60 for my 55g about a year ago and I'm disappointed with its output. I had two 24" curtain wands and thought they might have been too old/clogged so I replaced them with two 4" disks. They are also wimpy-wimpy-wimpy in their output. One just "sizzles" a little air, the other "blurps" a big bubble every 10 seconds or so. > > I think it's the air pump's fault. It started out weak and seems to have gotten worse. I would like to replace it with something with a bit more horsepower. Any recommendations? > ~Kai > (Pennsylvania) >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 43204	From: kuradi8	Date: 9/9/2009
Subject: Re: Dear Moderator(s)

Bill, I understand what you're saying but I think you misunderstood what I did. I'm not proposing that EVERYONE gets "taken off Moderation," just the regulars and trusted members. Though it's not impossible, it's unlikely that any of our accounts will be hijacked by spammers -- and if they are, it's even more unlikely that they'll know to spam the Group(s) that we belong to. Strangers, newcomers and other inactive members would still need to be approved on a post by post basis. Automatic approval of the most active members would lessen the work load on the moderators and make this Group more "conversational." ~Kai > Bill wrote: > > Hi Kai, > > I am not a moderator but I do know that these rules are > in place for a reason, usually against "spammers" to protect > both you as well as the group. > > If a quick response is required it may pay you to write directly to > someone within the group. > > Finally, I just found out last night that even though I was responding > directly to a person and not the group, Yahoo Mail still made me type in > one of those "Flash Gordon" codes to even send the mail through. > > Just some food for thought, > > Bill > > > Kai wrote: > > Dear Moderator(s) > > I see that you need to approve EVERY message that we submit to be posted. It's a lot of work for you and the impatient ones among us (me) often get a little frustrated at the lack of instant gratification because we (I) want a quick reply. I belong to several other Yahoo Groups and they are set up so that the regular active members (of which we seem to have quite a few) can post automatically. Only newcomers and inactive members need to go through moderator approval. > > How do you feel about changing this Group to that sort of a system? > ~Kai > > > PS - You don't have to post this for everyone to see unless you want their opinions too. >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 43205	From: robbrouse	Date: 9/9/2009
Subject: Re: Dear Moderator(s)

The way I look at it you don't want into someone else house and tells them you don't like the carpet. The Board owner runs it the way he sees fit. If we want to sue the board we have to play by his rules. --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "kuradi8" <kuradi8@...> wrote: > > Dear Moderator(s) > > I see that you need to approve EVERY message that we submit to be posted. It's a lot of work for you and the impatient ones among us (me) often get a little frustrated at the lack of instant gratification because we (I) want a quick reply. I belong to several other Yahoo Groups and they are set up so that the regular active members (of which we seem to have quite a few) can post automatically. Only newcomers and inactive members need to go through moderator approval. > > How do you feel about changing this Group to that sort of a system? > ~Kai > > > PS - You don't have to post this for everyone to see unless you want their opinions too. >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 43206	From: kuradi8	Date: 9/9/2009
Subject: Re: Air Pumps

Hmmmmmmmmmm... Thanks for that suggestion, Kevin. I think the 8w ($80+ with shipping) would be plenty for me since I only want to run two 24" air curtains or two 4" disks. The specs don't give the lpm. Any clue what it might be? The Rena 400 ($40-ish with shipping) I have been looking at is also 8w and each of the two outlets puts out 3.333 lpm. On the other hand, this no-name (?) single-outlet pump with Chinese writing on the box http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=160355683140 is 6w, 4.35 psi and claims to put out 8 lpm. Even with shipping, TWO of those would come in at less than half the price of the Jehmco and possibly provide (insert simian chest beating here) "more air power" than either the Rena or the Jehmco. (Or are you skeptical of their claim too?) Who would have thought buying a pump would be this difficult??? I just don't want to be as disappointed in whatever I get next as I am in the Whisper 60. I hate wasting money like that. ~Kai > Kevin wrote: > > > http://www.jehmco.com/html/diaphragm_air_pumps.html#DAPMH8-15 > > this is what finally worked for me, runs six very large airstones with air leftover, it's a little more money but has an actual metal housing, inside it's very well built! i went through a lot of so called "high output" air pumps 'till i found this. my tanks are all really deep and i need volume and pressure, this pump gives me both. (i have an 8, know someone who has the 15, - more air but also runs hotter because if the increased coil size) > > Kai wrote: > > I've been shopping online, especially on ebay (people bid crazy high over Labor Day Weekend) and now I have new questions. > > My top contenders at the moment are the Tetra AP300 and the Rena 400. The AP300 will only tell me that it's 7.5w. All the other specs are well guarded secrets. > > The Rena 400 is 8w and claims to put out 2x200 liters/hour. BUT... That's only 3.3 liters/minute and I've seen other "no-name" units for smaller tanks claiming as much as 8 liters/minute. So I question whether that's the right spec for me to be looking at. (Kinda like a large car with a small engine boasting about the number of cup-holders.) > > The Rena 400's online operator's manual shows it runs 4" and 6" air stones. So what would I need for my dual 24" curtain wands? A Sears automotive shop compressor??? > > OK, rant over. (And now I hope you understand my confusion.) > > So... How do I pick an air pump? What is the most important spec? Wattage? Liters per hour/minute? PSI? > > Thanks in advance for your help. :o) > ~Kai > > > On September 9, Kai wrote: > > > > I bought a Whisper-60 for my 55g about a year ago and I'm disappointed with its output. I had two 24" curtain wands and thought they might have been too old/clogged so I replaced them with two 4" disks. They are also wimpy-wimpy-wimpy in their output. One just "sizzles" a little air, the other "blurps" a big bubble every 10 seconds or so. > > > > I think it's the air pump's fault. It started out weak and seems to have gotten worse. I would like to replace it with something with a bit more horsepower. Any recommendations? > > ~Kai > > (Pennsylvania) > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 43207	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 9/9/2009
Subject: Re: UV filter

I know you meant internal bacteria (not parasites) but I just wanted to make sure and or clarify for other readers. The bloating you are seeing is usually from bacteria... if not attributable to constipation but since you describe it as severe, I'm pretty sure it's bacterial. A fish will usually stop eating before constipation gets to that point. No need to worry about the Maracyn 2 affecting your fish, as long as you use proper dosing and DO NOT overdose the antibiotics. It was the smell lingering on the surface of the water, from the Mela/Pimafix that affects the surface breathing labyrinth fish (Bettas, Gourami's, etc.). As far as I know, anything put into the water column will get inside the fish via osmoregulation. Some meds might work better or quicker but Maracyn 2 is a broad spectrum gram-negative antibiotic so it should do the trick. Are two packets enough? I thought it took multiple re-dosing to complete the treatment cycle? Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Amber Berglund Sent: Wednesday, September 09, 2009 10:01 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] UV filter I have 2 packets enough to treat 10 gallons twice, for now. I will move him over to the 10 gallon today and start treatments with the maracyn 2 first and see how it helps. The package didn't say anything about internal parasites so I figured it only helped with external issues. Thanks for clearing that up. Do I need to worry about how much I dose with my gourami or will he not be sensitive to maracyn 2? I knew about the pima/melafix being too strong for them already though, but thanks for reminding me, I may have forgotten when it came time to dose the tank ;) LOL. Amber Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > > > No. The UV will not help him. It's not going to kill the bacteria inside > him. The Melafix/Pimafix cocktail will kill the waterborne bacteria and > also work on the bacteria inside him. > > Something I might have expected you to know, but failed to mention in my > previous post, is that you should use only 1/2 doses of these medications > with labyrinth fish. The strong smell hovers over the water and affects > them when they breathe at the surface so instead of adding a full dose of > each, cut it back 50% to two 25% doses the first day, to slowly build up > potency in the water, and then 50% doses each day on follow-up treatments. > If you see the fish showing more distress with breathing, do a 25% PWC and > cut back the dosing to only 25% dosage of each, each day through the > treatment period. I've used it at 50% dosages with no adverse effects > on my > gourami but every fish is different. > > I was just re-reading your original post and I see that you do have > Maracyn > 2 on hand.. right? This would be better than the Melafix/Pimafix mentioned > above. Maracyn 2 is a gram-negative antibiotic and most bacterial issues > with fish are gram-negative and I was just looking at the directions on > DrsFosterSmith.com and it says that it treats internal infections and for > fish that will not eat. Remember to remove any carbon or other chemical > filtration from the filter and NO UV filtration when medicating a tank > either. Do not mix the Mela/Pimafix cocktail with the Maracyn 2. Use the > Maracyn 2 first and then if that does not fix him up fully and you run out > of it, then you could do a series of PWC's and then start the Mela/Pimafix > cocktail. I'm not sure how much Maracyn 2 you have but at least with > treating only a 10G tank, it will be more cost effective. I priced it once > for my 65G and the price wasn't pretty. > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right > side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On > Behalf Of Amber Berglund > Sent: Wednesday, September 09, 2009 1:33 AM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] UV filter > > Okay I did a water change and some tank cleaning tonight, and I also > turned > the UV filter back on for now. I will pull the gourami out and put him in > the 10 gallon with some mela/pimafix, hopefully it helps. > He's huge and it's just over the weekend, I gave peas this weekend but he > didn't eat any of them that I could see. And he's getting worse. I don't > know if the UV filter would help him or not, should I keep him in the tank > with the UV filter or move him? > > Amber > > Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > > > > > > I think it's a catch-22 that you are in. Here's my theory... > > > > What happens is that when you run the UV filter on the water, it kills > > all water borne micro-organisms, both good ones and the bad ones too, > > so the fish get use to living in this pristine water and then when you > > turn off the UV filter, these micro-organisms return (naturally) and > > since the fish have no immunity or resistance to them, they start to > > get sick. > > > > It's kind of like what happens to kids (and adults) nowadays since > > they stay inside so much, houses and offices are climate controlled > > and air-tight, etc., so people do not build up immunities like we did > > years ago when kids played outside all the time, playing in > > mud-puddles, making mud-pies, falling in dog poo when playing sports, > > etc. Nothing builds character better than landing face first into a > > big pile after catching that fly ball or touchdown. LOL I guess up > > there in Alaska, it would be a big pile of Moose poo. LOL > > > > Nowadays, parents and schools are getting even worse with kids, with > > the > > H1N1 virus and they are using all these anti-bacterial soaps, hand > > lotions, teaching kids to cough into their elbows, etc. What ever > > happened to just rubbing your runny nose with your hand and then > > finishing that sandwich with mayonnaise and luncheon meat that has > > been sitting at room temperature in your lunch box/bag since early > > this morning? > > > > Now, "Those were the days!" > http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0d8FTPv955I > <http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0d8FTPv955I> > > <http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0d8FTPv955I > <http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0d8FTPv955I>> > > > > The next generation will get sick even easier due to all the crap > > being done about H1N1 today. > > > > OK.. back to the fish... > > > > You need to either run the UV all the time or slowly start weaning > > them off of the UV filtered water. Going cold-turkey might work for > > most of the fish but some of the ones with weaker immune systems might > > get sick.. as you are seeing. > > > > For now, start running the UV filter again and treat the symptoms. > > Unless you saw the Gourami gorging on guppy fry, I would suspect it to > > be an internal bacterial issue which Gourami's are prone to anyhow. > > I've used Melafix/Pimafix cocktail for treating this issue on one of > > my Gourami's after Katrina. While Melafix is a mild antibacterial and > > Pimafix is a an antifungal treatment, when combined as a cocktail, it > > turns into a much stronger antibacterial treatment. If you have both > > of them, you could move the Gourami to a H-tank and treat him. You > > could also observe his poop to get more information about what is > bothering him. > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>> > (Links to any articles referenced in > > above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels > > and also under Archives by Year, Month) > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On Behalf Of Amber Berglund > > Sent: Tuesday, September 08, 2009 6:14 PM > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > Subject: [AquaticLife] UV filter > > > > Okay, it seems like every time I unplug my UV filter from my 125 > > gallon tank fish start dieing in it. Is this because of some sort of > > bacteria die off or something maybe? I don't change anything else that > > I'm doing, my filter cleanings are rotated so that I clean 2 of the > > filters each week and do a water change. I've lost a couple of my > > ram's and one of my hillstream loaches. My dwarf gourami is also > > bloated all of a sudden, I'm going to feed peas tonight to see if that > > helps, I can put him in a 10 gallon by himself if I need to (have one > > cycled and ready when needed). > > I didn't run tests yet this week since I saw the dead fish but other > > than the bloated gourami no one else is acting oddly. I have to clean > > the filters tonight and do a water change, I will try to remember to > > run my tests before I do so ;) LOL. > > I have some Maracyn 2 handy but it doesn't look like it helps for an > > internal bacteria infection if that's what the gourami has. My LFS has > > awful selection on meds, I can usually find better at the local > > hardware/feed store, LOL. > > I had some guppy's give birth a little while ago, perhaps the gourami > > gorged himself on baby guppies? > > Besides an Epsom salt bath are there any other suggestions besides > > feeding shelled peas? > > > > Amber > > ------------------------------------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the home page. Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com to receive the digest, which includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com for the No E-Mail option where you will still be able to read messages on the group and post replies. Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com to receive individual e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 43208	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 9/9/2009
Subject: Re: Dear Moderator(s)

How long have you been a member? Unless you've changed Yahoo ID's, the group's member section shows you since May of this year. I'm not sure what the default is for Yahoo Groups, but I'm pretty sure that only new members are moderated unless a mod/owner put you on moderation. I did a search of the Messages section for how long ago you made your first post but of course, the search still is not working properly (a long known issue with Yahoo Groups that they are supposed to have fixed). I've reported this several times via the link at the top of the search results page, to no avail. I did recently send a similar question to the mods/owners about taking some frequent posters off of moderation so maybe this post of yours will work in your case. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of kuradi8 Sent: Wednesday, September 09, 2009 10:16 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Dear Moderator(s) Dear Moderator(s) I see that you need to approve EVERY message that we submit to be posted. It's a lot of work for you and the impatient ones among us (me) often get a little frustrated at the lack of instant gratification because we (I) want a quick reply. I belong to several other Yahoo Groups and they are set up so that the regular active members (of which we seem to have quite a few) can post automatically. Only newcomers and inactive members need to go through moderator approval. How do you feel about changing this Group to that sort of a system? ~Kai PS - You don't have to post this for everyone to see unless you want their opinions too.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 43209	From: kuradi8	Date: 9/9/2009
Subject: Re: Air Pumps

Thanks for your in depth (tee hee, pun intended) reply, Lenny. How deep is my tank? It's a standard consumer 55g which makes it 21" tall with a water depth of about 17-18". The pump lives in the cabinet below so the air hose must climb appx 43 vertical inches before it loops down to the bottom of the tank. Both the disappointing Tetra-60 and the (future?) Rena 400 are 2-outlet pumps so the other air hose crosses to the other corner of the 48" wide tank before it does the same. After my disappointment with the Tetra-60, I don't think I'd want another Tetra so therefore I am also leaning toward the Rena. But I'm also tempted by a pair of the el-cheapo 8-lpm units I pointed out earlier -- *if* I can get over my skepticism. ("Too good to be true" and "Ya get what ya pay for.") ~Kai > Lenny wrote: > > I would go with Rena over Tetra as a general rule.. although there's always > a chance that Tetra could make quality air pumps. You would have to Google > user reviews and compare warranties to find out for sure. > > Air pumps have more to do with the depth of your tank, rather than the size > of your air stone. (almost sounds like one of them motion in the ocean > sayings.. lol) It takes work to push air under water so a deeper tank needs > a much stronger air pump. It's nothing to do with watts or liters per > minute if the pump can't push the air down to the depths that you might > need. > > How deep is your tank? > > My 65G goldfish tank is only 17" deep (48" x 18" footprint) and I have a > Rena Air 300 that I used on the tank, with a 2' long bubble wand, when I > first set it up and only had one filter system. I quit using it after I > increased my filtration... but it had plenty of power to push the air to > create a huge micro bubble curtain on the back of the glass. I even had to > throttle it back a little if I remember correctly. > > I tested a few air pumps before deciding on the Rena. I like it. It's a > little noisy, as are most air pumps but I found that by sitting it on a > small piece of carpeting, that made it almost as quiet as a mouse and I > figured the carpeting would also help to filter out dust/dirt before it got > to the little filter pad on the bottom of the unit... which should be > cleaned or changed as needed. > > Here's the DFS page on Rena Air Pumps and you can read the Overview and More > Info tabs for better details. > http://www.drsfostersmith.com/product/prod_display.cfm?pcatid=3724 > > Remember to get an anti-siphon valve for your pump if you are going to be > placing the pump below the water line. If you place the pump on a shelf > above the tank, you do not need the anti-siphon valve. Also consider the > heating/cooling benefits of an air pump. If the pump is placed high in a > room, it will be sucking in warmer air than if it's on the floor where it > will be sucking in cooler air. > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right > side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) > > > Kai wrote: > > I've been shopping online, especially on ebay (people bid crazy high over > Labor Day Weekend) and now I have new questions. > > My top contenders at the moment are the Tetra AP300 and the Rena 400. The > AP300 will only tell me that it's 7.5w. All the other specs are well > guarded secrets. > > The Rena 400 is 8w and claims to put out 2x200 liters/hour. BUT... That's > only 3.3 liters/minute and I've seen other "no-name" units for smaller tanks > claiming as much as 8 liters/minute. So I question whether that's the right > spec for me to be looking at. (Kinda like a large car with a small engine > boasting about the number of cup-holders.) > > The Rena 400's online operator's manual shows it runs 4" and 6" air stones. > So what would I need for my dual 24" curtain wands? A Sears automotive shop > compressor??? > > OK, rant over. (And now I hope you understand my confusion.) > > So... How do I pick an air pump? What is the most important spec? > Wattage? Liters per hour/minute? PSI? > > Thanks in advance for your help. :o) > ~Kai > > > > > > On September 9, Kai wrote: > > > > I bought a Whisper-60 for my 55g about a year ago and I'm disappointed > with its output. I had two 24" curtain wands and thought they might have > been too old/clogged so I replaced them with two 4" disks. They are also > wimpy-wimpy-wimpy in their output. One just "sizzles" a little air, the > other "blurps" a big bubble every 10 seconds or so. > > > > I think it's the air pump's fault. It started out weak and seems to have > gotten worse. I would like to replace it with something with a bit more > horsepower. Any recommendations? > > ~Kai > > (Pennsylvania) > > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 43210	From: robbrouse	Date: 9/9/2009
Subject: Re: Air Pumps

How much of a different will it make in the over all temp of the tank? I Have mine on the floor if I moved it higher how much warmer would the water be? --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@...> wrote: > > Remember to get an anti-siphon valve for your pump if you are going to be > placing the pump below the water line. If you place the pump on a shelf > above the tank, you do not need the anti-siphon valve. Also consider the > heating/cooling benefits of an air pump. If the pump is placed high in a > room, it will be sucking in warmer air than if it's on the floor where it > will be sucking in cooler air. > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 43211	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 9/9/2009
Subject: Re: Air Pumps

Just because it's "Made in China" doesn't mean it's not decent stuff, although their quality control does still need more oversight considering the melamine-in-the-pet-food fiasco recently. I would venture to say that lots of stuff inside many of our products are made and assembled in China nowadays and the only American thing about the product might be the name. I remember not too long ago, "Made in Japan", brought up the same kinds of "poor quality" inferences but the Japanese have been kicking America's (and most other industrialized countries) butts as far as quality goes for quite a while now. Considering the general laziness and poor work habits of a large percentage of the population in industrialized countries (obviously including my own country, America), I would expect Chinese workmanship to overcome many of these union slackers... oops.. meant union worker's and non-union worker's quality in the not too distant future. God help us when India develops a larger manufacturing base and our borders are weakened even further in the next four years and we sink further and further into a massive debt load from all of the over-spending by our useless politicians. America will probably cease to exist as we now know it... but at least it will be "Change You Can Believe In"... just not necessarily what you might have wanted. ;-) Ok... I gotta get back to building and stocking my underground bunker now. I wonder if I'll have room for my fish? LOL Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of kuradi8 Sent: Wednesday, September 09, 2009 1:03 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Air Pumps Thanks for your in depth (tee hee, pun intended) reply, Lenny. How deep is my tank? It's a standard consumer 55g which makes it 21" tall with a water depth of about 17-18". The pump lives in the cabinet below so the air hose must climb appx 43 vertical inches before it loops down to the bottom of the tank. Both the disappointing Tetra-60 and the (future?) Rena 400 are 2-outlet pumps so the other air hose crosses to the other corner of the 48" wide tank before it does the same. After my disappointment with the Tetra-60, I don't think I'd want another Tetra so therefore I am also leaning toward the Rena. But I'm also tempted by a pair of the el-cheapo 8-lpm units I pointed out earlier -- *if* I can get over my skepticism. ("Too good to be true" and "Ya get what ya pay for.") ~Kai > Lenny wrote: > > I would go with Rena over Tetra as a general rule.. although there's > always a chance that Tetra could make quality air pumps. You would > have to Google user reviews and compare warranties to find out for sure. > > Air pumps have more to do with the depth of your tank, rather than the > size of your air stone. (almost sounds like one of them motion in the > ocean sayings.. lol) It takes work to push air under water so a > deeper tank needs a much stronger air pump. It's nothing to do with > watts or liters per minute if the pump can't push the air down to the > depths that you might need. > > How deep is your tank? > > My 65G goldfish tank is only 17" deep (48" x 18" footprint) and I have > a Rena Air 300 that I used on the tank, with a 2' long bubble wand, > when I first set it up and only had one filter system. I quit using > it after I increased my filtration... but it had plenty of power to > push the air to create a huge micro bubble curtain on the back of the > glass. I even had to throttle it back a little if I remember correctly. > > I tested a few air pumps before deciding on the Rena. I like it. It's > a little noisy, as are most air pumps but I found that by sitting it > on a small piece of carpeting, that made it almost as quiet as a mouse > and I figured the carpeting would also help to filter out dust/dirt > before it got to the little filter pad on the bottom of the unit... > which should be cleaned or changed as needed. > > Here's the DFS page on Rena Air Pumps and you can read the Overview > and More Info tabs for better details. > http://www.drsfostersmith.com/product/prod_display.cfm?pcatid=3724 > > Remember to get an anti-siphon valve for your pump if you are going to > be placing the pump below the water line. If you place the pump on a > shelf above the tank, you do not need the anti-siphon valve. Also > consider the heating/cooling benefits of an air pump. If the pump is > placed high in a room, it will be sucking in warmer air than if it's > on the floor where it will be sucking in cooler air. > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles > referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically > under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) > > > Kai wrote: > > I've been shopping online, especially on ebay (people bid crazy high > over Labor Day Weekend) and now I have new questions. > > My top contenders at the moment are the Tetra AP300 and the Rena 400. > The AP300 will only tell me that it's 7.5w. All the other specs are > well guarded secrets. > > The Rena 400 is 8w and claims to put out 2x200 liters/hour. BUT... > That's only 3.3 liters/minute and I've seen other "no-name" units for > smaller tanks claiming as much as 8 liters/minute. So I question > whether that's the right spec for me to be looking at. (Kinda like a > large car with a small engine boasting about the number of > cup-holders.) > > The Rena 400's online operator's manual shows it runs 4" and 6" air stones. > So what would I need for my dual 24" curtain wands? A Sears > automotive shop compressor??? > > OK, rant over. (And now I hope you understand my confusion.) > > So... How do I pick an air pump? What is the most important spec? > Wattage? Liters per hour/minute? PSI? > > Thanks in advance for your help. :o) > ~Kai > > > > > > On September 9, Kai wrote: > > > > I bought a Whisper-60 for my 55g about a year ago and I'm > > disappointed > with its output. I had two 24" curtain wands and thought they might > have been too old/clogged so I replaced them with two 4" disks. They > are also wimpy-wimpy-wimpy in their output. One just "sizzles" a > little air, the other "blurps" a big bubble every 10 seconds or so. > > > > I think it's the air pump's fault. It started out weak and seems to > > have > gotten worse. I would like to replace it with something with a bit > more horsepower. Any recommendations? > > ~Kai > > (Pennsylvania)

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 43212	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 9/9/2009
Subject: Re: Air Pumps

I've never tested it to know any specifics. It's just obvious from basic physics that hot air rises so cooler air would be closer to the floor. I know in my house, the air temp at the ceiling is usually around 5F warmer than the air temp at the floor. You can test your own by putting a reliable thermometer in each area of your room for a couple of minutes to see what the difference would be. Obviously, do not test the area right near a central air/heat vent and to not put the pump in one of these areas either. If you have one of these two air temps (floor or ceiling) constantly pumping into your tank, it will certainly affect the temperature of the tank... or make your heater work more, or less. When I used air pumps on my tanks (I no longer use them), I would put the air pump for the goldfish tank on the floor and the air pump for the tropical tanks higher up to take advantage of this thermal difference. Of course, a constantly running ceiling fan or other air circulation will lessen the difference but there will still be some difference between floor and ceiling temps. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of robbrouse Sent: Wednesday, September 09, 2009 1:07 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Air Pumps How much of a different will it make in the over all temp of the tank? I Have mine on the floor if I moved it higher how much warmer would the water be? --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@...> wrote: > > Remember to get an anti-siphon valve for your pump if you are going to > be placing the pump below the water line. If you place the pump on a > shelf above the tank, you do not need the anti-siphon valve. Also > consider the heating/cooling benefits of an air pump. If the pump is > placed high in a room, it will be sucking in warmer air than if it's > on the floor where it will be sucking in cooler air. > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles > referenced in above reply are listed on the

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 43213	From: Sam Palermo	Date: 9/9/2009
Subject: Re: [Bulk] [AquaticLife] Re: Air Pumps

Hi Kai; I have been using a Tetra pump on my tank for at least a year continuously and it is higher than the water but still is going. I think it is called a whisper. http://www.drsfostersmith.com/product/prod_display.cfm?c=3578+3669+12738&pcatid=12738 Sam, kuradi8 wrote: > > > Thanks for your in depth (tee hee, pun intended) reply, Lenny. > > How deep is my tank? It's a standard consumer 55g which makes it 21" > tall with a water depth of about 17-18". > > The pump lives in the cabinet below so the air hose must climb appx 43 > vertical inches before it loops down to the bottom of the tank. Both > the disappointing Tetra-60 and the (future?) Rena 400 are 2-outlet > pumps so the other air hose crosses to the other corner of the 48" > wide tank before it does the same. > > After my disappointment with the Tetra-60, I don't think I'd want > another Tetra so therefore I am also leaning toward the Rena. But I'm > also tempted by a pair of the el-cheapo 8-lpm units I pointed out > earlier -- *if* I can get over my skepticism. ("Too good to be true" > and "Ya get what ya pay for.") > ~Kai > > > Lenny wrote: > > > > I would go with Rena over Tetra as a general rule.. although there's > always > > a chance that Tetra could make quality air pumps. You would have to > Google > > user reviews and compare warranties to find out for sure. > > > > Air pumps have more to do with the depth of your tank, rather than > the size > > of your air stone. (almost sounds like one of them motion in the ocean > > sayings.. lol) It takes work to push air under water so a deeper > tank needs > > a much stronger air pump. It's nothing to do with watts or liters per > > minute if the pump can't push the air down to the depths that you might > > need. > > > > How deep is your tank? > > > > My 65G goldfish tank is only 17" deep (48" x 18" footprint) and I have a > > Rena Air 300 that I used on the tank, with a 2' long bubble wand, when I > > first set it up and only had one filter system. I quit using it after I > > increased my filtration... but it had plenty of power to push the air to > > create a huge micro bubble curtain on the back of the glass. I even > had to > > throttle it back a little if I remember correctly. > > > > I tested a few air pumps before deciding on the Rena. I like it. It's a > > little noisy, as are most air pumps but I found that by sitting it on a > > small piece of carpeting, that made it almost as quiet as a mouse and I > > figured the carpeting would also help to filter out dust/dirt before > it got > > to the little filter pad on the bottom of the unit... which should be > > cleaned or changed as needed. > > > > Here's the DFS page on Rena Air Pumps and you can read the Overview > and More > > Info tabs for better details. > > http://www.drsfostersmith.com/product/prod_display.cfm?pcatid=3724 > <http://www.drsfostersmith.com/product/prod_display.cfm?pcatid=3724> > > > > Remember to get an anti-siphon valve for your pump if you are going > to be > > placing the pump below the water line. If you place the pump on a shelf > > above the tank, you do not need the anti-siphon valve. Also consider the > > heating/cooling benefits of an air pump. If the pump is placed high in a > > room, it will be sucking in warmer air than if it's on the floor > where it > > will be sucking in cooler air. > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right > > side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, > Month) > > > > > > > Kai wrote: > > > > I've been shopping online, especially on ebay (people bid crazy high > over > > Labor Day Weekend) and now I have new questions. > > > > My top contenders at the moment are the Tetra AP300 and the Rena > 400. The > > AP300 will only tell me that it's 7.5w. All the other specs are well > > guarded secrets. > > > > The Rena 400 is 8w and claims to put out 2x200 liters/hour. BUT... > That's > > only 3.3 liters/minute and I've seen other "no-name" units for > smaller tanks > > claiming as much as 8 liters/minute. So I question whether that's > the right > > spec for me to be looking at. (Kinda like a large car with a small > engine > > boasting about the number of cup-holders.) > > > > The Rena 400's online operator's manual shows it runs 4" and 6" air > stones. > > So what would I need for my dual 24" curtain wands? A Sears > automotive shop > > compressor??? > > > > OK, rant over. (And now I hope you understand my confusion.) > > > > So... How do I pick an air pump? What is the most important spec? > > Wattage? Liters per hour/minute? PSI? > > > > Thanks in advance for your help. :o) > > ~Kai > > > > > > > > > > > On September 9, Kai wrote: > > > > > > I bought a Whisper-60 for my 55g about a year ago and I'm disappointed > > with its output. I had two 24" curtain wands and thought they might have > > been too old/clogged so I replaced them with two 4" disks. They are also > > wimpy-wimpy-wimpy in their output. One just "sizzles" a little air, the > > other "blurps" a big bubble every 10 seconds or so. > > > > > > I think it's the air pump's fault. It started out weak and seems > to have > > gotten worse. I would like to replace it with something with a bit more > > horsepower. Any recommendations? > > > ~Kai > > > (Pennsylvania) > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 43214	From: kuradi8	Date: 9/9/2009
Subject: Re: Dear Moderator(s)

May sounds about right. And I tend to ask a boatload of questions, then disappear for a while until my next tank crisis. I suspect there are many members like me -- off and on. I admit that I can be a PITA -- but I'm not a spammer. :o) I brought this up only because I noticed that posts appear in clumps -- even from long time regulars like \\Steve// and Amber. It's too consistent to be coincidental so I ASSUME (and we all know what happens when we do that) that a moderator is OK'ing everyone's posts in batches instead of allowing trusted members to post automatically. According to my buddy who moderates another Group, he (as Moderator) sets the universal setting to "MODERATE ALL" and then manually removes the moderation from trusted members so that they can post automatically. He says that the reverse is also possible -- to "MODERATE NONE" and only moderate the "problem" ones. But that means spammers can get in until they're banned. And there seems to be a never-ending supply of spammers so it's better to "MODERATE ALL" and trust those who are "known good." Bottom line: It's YOUR choice. :o) I'm just asking/suggesting because I think it would make things easier for you/moderator(s) and more fluid for the rest of us. It's OK to say NO to me. :o) ~Kai --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@...> wrote: > > How long have you been a member? Unless you've changed Yahoo ID's, the > group's member section shows you since May of this year. I'm not sure what > the default is for Yahoo Groups, but I'm pretty sure that only new members > are moderated unless a mod/owner put you on moderation. > > I did a search of the Messages section for how long ago you made your first > post but of course, the search still is not working properly (a long known > issue with Yahoo Groups that they are supposed to have fixed). I've > reported this several times via the link at the top of the search results > page, to no avail. > > I did recently send a similar question to the mods/owners about taking some > frequent posters off of moderation so maybe this post of yours will work in > your case. > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right > side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) > > > -----Original Message----- > Kai wrote: > > Dear Moderator(s) > > I see that you need to approve EVERY message that we submit to be posted. > It's a lot of work for you and the impatient ones among us (me) often get a > little frustrated at the lack of instant gratification because we (I) want a > quick reply. I belong to several other Yahoo Groups and they are set up so > that the regular active members (of which we seem to have quite a few) can > post automatically. Only newcomers and inactive members need to go through > moderator approval. > > How do you feel about changing this Group to that sort of a system? > ~Kai > > > PS - You don't have to post this for everyone to see unless you want their > opinions too. >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 43215	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 9/9/2009
Subject: Re: Dear Moderator(s)

Usually, folks like myself, \\Steve// and Amber will reply to a bunch of messages at once, as we are checking our mail, so this may be why you see our messages all show up in a close time group. I'm hanging around the office today so I'm replying as I see messages come in right now. I know \\Steve// and I are not on moderation and I'm pretty sure Amber is not on moderation any longer either. Up until the past six months or so, the group was not using all of the anti-spammer member security methods to prevent spammers from joining the group so the mods were having to reject tons of spammer messages from ever reaching the group. Since implementing all of the anti-spammer member methods, we are probably blocking over 50% of the "people" that attempt to join the group since they do not past the anti-spammer smell test and this has resulted in a HUGE decrease in spammers trying to send spam to the group but we also have to presume there are a bunch of "sleepers" who are members who previously joined when there was limited security, waiting to attack if the group turns off moderation (Sheesh.. sounds like I'm paranoid... lol). We've also seen people join and post relatively benign messages/replies and then after being taken off of moderation, they start their spamming so it's a constant battle for all of the various Yahoo Group's owners and/or moderators. Call me a racist, prejudice or whatever you want to call me... as long as you don't call me late for dinner... lol... but a LARGE percentage of the attempts by spammers to join this group (and others that I own or moderate) are from folks in India so there's always a chance that your Yahoo ID (which looks Indian, or from that area of the world, to me.. but then I would be admitting that I'm prejudice, that is pre-judging someone, and yes we all do it and in the "old days" it was called intuition and was a good thing before the PC crowd came along) could have kept you on moderation a little longer than usual. I'm sure I'm not the first person to presume or assume this (and yes, I know what assume means... lol) as I noticed you put "(Pennsylvania)" under your signature in one of your recent posts to help overcome any prejudices that might be inferred from your Yahoo ID and name. It's also why my favorite Governor (Louisiana Governor Bobby Jindal... his parents immigrated legally from India and since I support and voted for him, I guess I'm not too much of a prejudiced racist redneck... lol) changed his name to Bobby as a kid, not withstanding the fact that his favorite Brady Bunch actor was Bobby Brady. ;-) Last but not least, it's OK to be a PITA... just not a member of PeTA. ;-) I'm a HUGE PITA (or some might say just the "A" part of PITA) when the need arises. LOL Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of kuradi8 Sent: Wednesday, September 09, 2009 1:27 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Dear Moderator(s) May sounds about right. And I tend to ask a boatload of questions, then disappear for a while until my next tank crisis. I suspect there are many members like me -- off and on. I admit that I can be a PITA -- but I'm not a spammer. :o) I brought this up only because I noticed that posts appear in clumps -- even from long time regulars like \\Steve// and Amber. It's too consistent to be coincidental so I ASSUME (and we all know what happens when we do that) that a moderator is OK'ing everyone's posts in batches instead of allowing trusted members to post automatically. According to my buddy who moderates another Group, he (as Moderator) sets the universal setting to "MODERATE ALL" and then manually removes the moderation from trusted members so that they can post automatically. He says that the reverse is also possible -- to "MODERATE NONE" and only moderate the "problem" ones. But that means spammers can get in until they're banned. And there seems to be a never-ending supply of spammers so it's better to "MODERATE ALL" and trust those who are "known good." Bottom line: It's YOUR choice. :o) I'm just asking/suggesting because I think it would make things easier for you/moderator(s) and more fluid for the rest of us. It's OK to say NO to me. :o) ~Kai --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@...> wrote: > > How long have you been a member? Unless you've changed Yahoo ID's, > the group's member section shows you since May of this year. I'm not > sure what the default is for Yahoo Groups, but I'm pretty sure that > only new members are moderated unless a mod/owner put you on moderation. > > I did a search of the Messages section for how long ago you made your > first post but of course, the search still is not working properly (a > long known issue with Yahoo Groups that they are supposed to have > fixed). I've reported this several times via the link at the top of > the search results page, to no avail. > > I did recently send a similar question to the mods/owners about taking > some frequent posters off of moderation so maybe this post of yours > will work in your case. > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles > referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically > under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) > > > -----Original Message----- > Kai wrote: > > Dear Moderator(s) > > I see that you need to approve EVERY message that we submit to be posted. > It's a lot of work for you and the impatient ones among us (me) often > get a little frustrated at the lack of instant gratification because > we (I) want a quick reply. I belong to several other Yahoo Groups and > they are set up so that the regular active members (of which we seem > to have quite a few) can post automatically. Only newcomers and > inactive members need to go through moderator approval. > > How do you feel about changing this Group to that sort of a system? > ~Kai > > > PS - You don't have to post this for everyone to see unless you want > their opinions too.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 43216	From: Deenerz@aol.com	Date: 9/9/2009
Subject: Deer in the headlights Moderator(s)

Hello Kai, In the past we have experimented with non moderation, moderating problem members, non moderation of frequent posters, as well as longtime members. It almost always seems to come back and bite us in the arse :) Even if posts were not moderated there is no guarantee someone will answer in a timely fashion,or worse you will get bad advice. On some groups if ONE spammer gets through the membership pitches a fit. This group is much more forgiving :) -Mike, one of many moderators. essage----- From: kuradi8 <kuradi8@...> To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Wed, Sep 9, 2009 11:26 am Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Dear Moderator(s) May sounds about right. And I tend to ask a boatload of questions, then disappear for a while until my next tank crisis. I suspect there are many members like me -- off and on. I admit that I can be a PITA -- but I'm not a spammer. :o)

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 43217	From: kuradi8	Date: 9/9/2009
Subject: [Bulk] [AquaticLife] Re: Air Pumps

I have one of those too, Sam. That link lists all of the models... the 10, 20, 40, 60 and 100. Which one do you have? I have the 60 -- which is supposed to be the appropriate size for my 55g. But it's too wimpy to drive the wands or the disks I've put in there. That's why I'm looking for one with (grunt-grunt-grunt) "More Power!" In fact, the Tetra/Whisper I considered was the AP300, which is two steps up from the 100 listed on that site (and 3 steps up from the one I have.) But I'm starting to think that Tetra/Whisper is the Harley Davidson of aquarium products. Just because it's the most well known brand doesn't mean it's (quote-unquote) "the best." As I've been saying, I'm very disappointed with (quote-unquote) "the right one" that I have now. At this point, it's a toss-up between the Rena 400 (which is the equivalent model to the AP300) and a pair of those el-cheapo high-output (are they really?) pumps with the Chinese writing on the box. The Jehmco that Kevin suggested is just a little too pricey but a piece of me still looks back at it wondering if it isn't the most cost-effective of them all. Like I said, who knew that picking a pump would be so difficult??? ~Kai > Sam Palermo wrote: > > Hi Kai; > I have been using a Tetra pump on my tank for at least a year continuously > and it is higher than the water but still is going. I think it is called > a whisper. > http://www.drsfostersmith.com/product/prod_display.cfm?c=3578+3669+12738&pcatid=12738 > > Sam, > kuradi8 wrote: > > > > > > Thanks for your in depth (tee hee, pun intended) reply, Lenny. > > > > How deep is my tank? It's a standard consumer 55g which makes it 21" > > tall with a water depth of about 17-18". > > > > The pump lives in the cabinet below so the air hose must climb appx 43 > > vertical inches before it loops down to the bottom of the tank. Both > > the disappointing Tetra-60 and the (future?) Rena 400 are 2-outlet > > pumps so the other air hose crosses to the other corner of the 48" > > wide tank before it does the same. > > > > After my disappointment with the Tetra-60, I don't think I'd want > > another Tetra so therefore I am also leaning toward the Rena. But I'm > > also tempted by a pair of the el-cheapo 8-lpm units I pointed out > > earlier -- *if* I can get over my skepticism. ("Too good to be true" > > and "Ya get what ya pay for.") > > ~Kai > > > > > Lenny wrote: > > > > > > I would go with Rena over Tetra as a general rule.. although there's > > always > > > a chance that Tetra could make quality air pumps. You would have to > > Google > > > user reviews and compare warranties to find out for sure. > > > > > > Air pumps have more to do with the depth of your tank, rather than > > the size > > > of your air stone. (almost sounds like one of them motion in the ocean > > > sayings.. lol) It takes work to push air under water so a deeper > > tank needs > > > a much stronger air pump. It's nothing to do with watts or liters per > > > minute if the pump can't push the air down to the depths that you might > > > need. > > > > > > How deep is your tank? > > > > > > My 65G goldfish tank is only 17" deep (48" x 18" footprint) and I have a > > > Rena Air 300 that I used on the tank, with a 2' long bubble wand, when I > > > first set it up and only had one filter system. I quit using it after I > > > increased my filtration... but it had plenty of power to push the air to > > > create a huge micro bubble curtain on the back of the glass. I even > > had to > > > throttle it back a little if I remember correctly. > > > > > > I tested a few air pumps before deciding on the Rena. I like it. It's a > > > little noisy, as are most air pumps but I found that by sitting it on a > > > small piece of carpeting, that made it almost as quiet as a mouse and I > > > figured the carpeting would also help to filter out dust/dirt before > > it got > > > to the little filter pad on the bottom of the unit... which should be > > > cleaned or changed as needed. > > > > > > Here's the DFS page on Rena Air Pumps and you can read the Overview > > and More > > > Info tabs for better details. > > > http://www.drsfostersmith.com/product/prod_display.cfm?pcatid=3724 > > <http://www.drsfostersmith.com/product/prod_display.cfm?pcatid=3724> > > > > > > Remember to get an anti-siphon valve for your pump if you are going > > to be > > > placing the pump below the water line. If you place the pump on a shelf > > > above the tank, you do not need the anti-siphon valve. Also consider the > > > heating/cooling benefits of an air pump. If the pump is placed high in a > > > room, it will be sucking in warmer air than if it's on the floor > > where it > > > will be sucking in cooler air. > > > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right > > > side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, > > Month) > > > > > > > > > > > Kai wrote: > > > > > > I've been shopping online, especially on ebay (people bid crazy high > > over > > > Labor Day Weekend) and now I have new questions. > > > > > > My top contenders at the moment are the Tetra AP300 and the Rena > > 400. The > > > AP300 will only tell me that it's 7.5w. All the other specs are well > > > guarded secrets. > > > > > > The Rena 400 is 8w and claims to put out 2x200 liters/hour. BUT... > > That's > > > only 3.3 liters/minute and I've seen other "no-name" units for > > smaller tanks > > > claiming as much as 8 liters/minute. So I question whether that's > > the right > > > spec for me to be looking at. (Kinda like a large car with a small > > engine > > > boasting about the number of cup-holders.) > > > > > > The Rena 400's online operator's manual shows it runs 4" and 6" air > > stones. > > > So what would I need for my dual 24" curtain wands? A Sears > > automotive shop > > > compressor??? > > > > > > OK, rant over. (And now I hope you understand my confusion.) > > > > > > So... How do I pick an air pump? What is the most important spec? > > > Wattage? Liters per hour/minute? PSI? > > > > > > Thanks in advance for your help. :o) > > > ~Kai > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > On September 9, Kai wrote: > > > > > > > > I bought a Whisper-60 for my 55g about a year ago and I'm disappointed > > > with its output. I had two 24" curtain wands and thought they might have > > > been too old/clogged so I replaced them with two 4" disks. They are also > > > wimpy-wimpy-wimpy in their output. One just "sizzles" a little air, the > > > other "blurps" a big bubble every 10 seconds or so. > > > > > > > > I think it's the air pump's fault. It started out weak and seems > > to have > > > gotten worse. I would like to replace it with something with a bit more > > > horsepower. Any recommendations? > > > > ~Kai > > > > (Pennsylvania) > > > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 43218	From: Deenerz@aol.com	Date: 9/9/2009
Subject: Re: Dear Moderator(s)

As Lenny mentioned we get spammers from India. A LOT of spammers from there. Usually you can look at the clock and figure out that when it is daytime in India we are going to get spammed like crazy and it does happen. That is certainly not to say that people from India are turned away. All people asking to join must post a semi coherent message to join, "hai" and "let me in" " to see the aquatic life" and "send me pictures" and "Biology student" are frequent attempts at joining. With 30 seconds of studying the group anyone could potentially put down a coherent sentence and get in and attempt to spam us. Most are just too stupid or have too many groups to try and spam to take that 30 seconds. I wonder if they are paid by the message? -Mike -----Original Message----- From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@...> To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Wed, Sep 9, 2009 12:08 pm Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: Dear Moderator(s)   Usually, folks like myself, \\Steve// and Amber will reply to a bunch of messages at once, as we are checking our mail, so this may be why you see our messages all show up in a close time group. I'm hanging around the office today so I'm replying as I see messages come in right now. I know \\Steve// and I are not on moderation and I'm pretty sure Amber is not on moderation any longer either. Up until the past six months or so, the group was not using all of the anti-spammer member security methods to prevent spammers from joining the group so the mods were having to reject tons of spammer messages from ever reaching the group. Since implementing all of the anti-spammer member methods, we are probably blocking over 50% of the "people" that attempt to join the group since they do not past the anti-spammer smell test and this has resulted in a HUGE decrease in spammers trying to send spam to the group but we also have to presume there are a bunch of "sleepers" who are members who previously joined when there was limited security, waiting to attack if the group turns off moderation (Sheesh.. sounds like I'm paranoid... lol). We've also seen people join and post relatively benign messages/replies and then after being taken off of moderation, they start their spamming so it's a constant battle for all of the various Yahoo Group's owners and/or moderators. Call me a racist, prejudice or whatever you want to call me... as long as you don't call me late for dinner... lol... but a LARGE percentage of the attempts by spammers to join this group (and others that I own or moderate) are from folks in India so there's always a chance that your Yahoo ID (which looks Indian, or f rom that area of the world, to me.. but then I would be admitting that I'm prejudice, that is pre-judging someone, and yes we all do it and in the "old days" it was called intuition and was a good thing before the PC crowd came along) could have kept you on moderation a little longer than usual. I'm sure I'm not the first person to presume or assume this (and yes, I know what assume means... lol) as I noticed you put "(Pennsylvania)" under your signature in one of your recent posts to help overcome any prejudices that might be inferred from your Yahoo ID and name. It's also why my favorite Governor (Louisiana Governor Bobby Jindal... his parents immigrated legally from India and since I support and voted for him, I guess I'm not too much of a prejudiced racist redneck... lol) changed his name to Bobby as a kid, not withstanding the fact that his favorite Brady Bunch actor was Bobby Brady. ;-) Last but not least, it's OK to be a PITA... just not a member of PeTA. ;-) I'm a HUGE PITA (or some might say just the "A" part of PITA) when the need arises. LOL Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of kuradi8 Sent: Wednesday, September 09, 2009 1:27 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Dear Moderator(s) May sounds about right. And I tend to ask a boatload of questions, then disappear for a while until my next tank crisis. I suspect there are many members like me -- off and on. I admit that I can be a PITA -- but I'm not a spammer. :o) I brought this up only because I noticed that posts appear in clumps -- even from long time regulars like \\Steve// and Amber. It's too consistent to be coincidental so I ASSUME (and we all know what happens when we do that) that a moderator is OK'ing everyone's posts in batches instead of allowing trusted members to post automatically. According to my buddy who moderates another Group, he (as Moderator) sets the universal setting to "MODERATE ALL" and then manually removes the moderation from trusted members so that they can post automatically. He says that the reverse is also possible -- to "MODERATE NONE" and only moderate the "problem" ones. But that means spammers can get in until they're banned. And there seems to be a never-ending supply of spammers so it's better to "MODERATE ALL" and trust those w ho are "known good." Bottom line: It's YOUR choice. :o) I'm just asking/suggesting because I think it would make things easier for you/moderator(s) and more fluid for the rest of us. It's OK to say NO to me. :o) ~Kai --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@...> wrote: > > How long have you been a member? Unless you've changed Yahoo ID's, > the group's member section shows you since May of this year. I'm not > sure what the default is for Yahoo Groups, but I'm pretty sure that > only new members are moderated unless a mod/owner put you on moderation. > > I did a search of the Messages section for how long ago you made your > first post but of course, the search still is not working properly (a > long known issue with Yahoo Groups that they are supposed to have > fixed). I've reported this several times via the link at the top of > the search results page, to no avail. > > I did recently send a similar question to the mods/owners about taking > some frequent posters off of moderation so maybe this post of yours > will work in your case. > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles > referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically > under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) > > > -----Original Message----- > Kai wrote: > > Dear Moderator(s) > > I see that you need to approve EVERY message that we submit to be posted. > It's a lot of work for you and the impatient ones among us (me) often > get a little frustrated at the lack of instant gratification because > we (I) want a quick reply. I belong to several other Yahoo Groups and > they are set up so that the regular active members (of which we seem > to have quite a few) can post automatically. Only newcomers and > inactive members need to go through moderator approval. > > How do you feel about changing this Group to that sort of a system? > ~Kai > > > PS - You don't have to post this for everyone to see unless you want > their opinions too.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 43219	From: laramoo1@ymail.com	Date: 9/9/2009
Subject: goldfish

Hi everyone I am new to this group. I have a question about my gold fish. My goldfish mouth, fins, and head turned red. He did slow down a little and started eating a little less then normal. I don't know what is wrong with him. What can I do for him?

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 43220	From: biG poppa	Date: 9/9/2009
Subject: Re: Dear Moderator(s)

I'm not a spamer..i post some times sense im kind of new to the hobby and get stuck sometimes i read all the post and comment on the ones i find interesting sense some post just become a repeat of and older ones.. --- On Wed, 9/9/09, kuradi8 <kuradi8@...> wrote: From: kuradi8 <kuradi8@...> Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Dear Moderator(s) To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Date: Wednesday, September 9, 2009, 2:26 PM   May sounds about right. And I tend to ask a boatload of questions, then disappear for a while until my next tank crisis. I suspect there are many members like me -- off and on. I admit that I can be a PITA -- but I'm not a spammer. :o) I brought this up only because I noticed that posts appear in clumps -- even from long time regulars like \\Steve// and Amber. It's too consistent to be coincidental so I ASSUME (and we all know what happens when we do that) that a moderator is OK'ing everyone's posts in batches instead of allowing trusted members to post automatically. According to my buddy who moderates another Group, he (as Moderator) sets the universal setting to "MODERATE ALL" and then manually removes the moderation from trusted members so that they can post automatically. He says that the reverse is also possible -- to "MODERATE NONE" and only moderate the "problem" ones. But that means spammers can get in until they're banned. And there seems to be a never-ending supply of spammers so it's better to "MODERATE ALL" and trust those who are "known good." Bottom line: It's YOUR choice. :o) I'm just asking/suggesting because I think it would make things easier for you/moderator( s) and more fluid for the rest of us. It's OK to say NO to me. :o) ~Kai --- In AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com, "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@. ..> wrote: > > How long have you been a member? Unless you've changed Yahoo ID's, the > group's member section shows you since May of this year. I'm not sure what > the default is for Yahoo Groups, but I'm pretty sure that only new members > are moderated unless a mod/owner put you on moderation. > > I did a search of the Messages section for how long ago you made your first > post but of course, the search still is not working properly (a long known > issue with Yahoo Groups that they are supposed to have fixed). I've > reported this several times via the link at the top of the search results > page, to no avail. > > I did recently send a similar question to the mods/owners about taking some > frequent posters off of moderation so maybe this post of yours will work in > your case. > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com > (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right > side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) > > > -----Original Message----- > Kai wrote: > > Dear Moderator(s) > > I see that you need to approve EVERY message that we submit to be posted. > It's a lot of work for you and the impatient ones among us (me) often get a > little frustrated at the lack of instant gratification because we (I) want a > quick reply. I belong to several other Yahoo Groups and they are set up so > that the regular active members (of which we seem to have quite a few) can > post automatically. Only newcomers and inactive members need to go through > moderator approval. > > How do you feel about changing this Group to that sort of a system? > ~Kai > > > PS - You don't have to post this for everyone to see unless you want their > opinions too. > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 43221	From: kuradi8	Date: 9/9/2009
Subject: Re: Dear Moderator(s)

Lenny wrote: \\I noticed you put "(Pennsylvania)" under your signature in one of your recent posts to help overcome any prejudices that might be inferred from your Yahoo ID and name.// Tee hee, no, that's not why I did that. It was in case someone wanted to point me to a source. Sending me to Walmart wouldn't help if I were in the UK, etc. As for Kai, yes that's my name. My heritage is from a country that is "almost" Scandinavian -- so I'm blonde (gray now) haired, blue eyed, fair skinned, etc. kuradi8 is for kuradi eit, which is my standard online "handle." Individually, each word isn't bad but put them together and my mother would stick a bar of soap in my mouth. Unfortunately, there is no way to keep spammers who pretend to be trusted off the list. But more than likely, they are 'bots or folks whose IDs have been hijacked. I guarantee you that if you get spam from my ID, it's not from *ME.* And I'd venture to say that's true of 90-some-odd percent of others who were once trusted. Obviously, *I* am on moderation. It takes a while before my posts show up. That's OK. But I do get impatient. It takes a while for others to see my questions and more time until I see their moderated replies. As I said, it's more "conversational" to be able to ask and answer and ask again with those who happen to have a few minutes to spare. ~Kai --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@...> wrote: > > Usually, folks like myself, \\Steve// and Amber will reply to a bunch of > messages at once, as we are checking our mail, so this may be why you see > our messages all show up in a close time group. I'm hanging around the > office today so I'm replying as I see messages come in right now. I know > \\Steve// and I are not on moderation and I'm pretty sure Amber is not on > moderation any longer either. > > Up until the past six months or so, the group was not using all of the > anti-spammer member security methods to prevent spammers from joining the > group so the mods were having to reject tons of spammer messages from ever > reaching the group. Since implementing all of the anti-spammer member > methods, we are probably blocking over 50% of the "people" that attempt to > join the group since they do not past the anti-spammer smell test and this > has resulted in a HUGE decrease in spammers trying to send spam to the group > but we also have to presume there are a bunch of "sleepers" who are members > who previously joined when there was limited security, waiting to attack if > the group turns off moderation (Sheesh.. sounds like I'm paranoid... lol). > We've also seen people join and post relatively benign messages/replies and > then after being taken off of moderation, they start their spamming so it's > a constant battle for all of the various Yahoo Group's owners and/or > moderators. > > Call me a racist, prejudice or whatever you want to call me... as long as > you don't call me late for dinner... lol... but a LARGE percentage of the > attempts by spammers to join this group (and others that I own or moderate) > are from folks in India so there's always a chance that your Yahoo ID (which > looks Indian, or from that area of the world, to me.. but then I would be > admitting that I'm prejudice, that is pre-judging someone, and yes we all do > it and in the "old days" it was called intuition and was a good thing before > the PC crowd came along) could have kept you on moderation a little longer > than usual. > > I'm sure I'm not the first person to presume or assume this (and yes, I know > what assume means... lol) as I noticed you put "(Pennsylvania)" under your > signature in one of your recent posts to help overcome any prejudices that > might be inferred from your Yahoo ID and name. It's also why my favorite > Governor (Louisiana Governor Bobby Jindal... his parents immigrated legally > from India and since I support and voted for him, I guess I'm not too much > of a prejudiced racist redneck... lol) changed his name to Bobby as a kid, > not withstanding the fact that his favorite Brady Bunch actor was Bobby > Brady. ;-) > > Last but not least, it's OK to be a PITA... just not a member of PeTA. ;-) > I'm a HUGE PITA (or some might say just the "A" part of PITA) when the need > arises. LOL > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right > side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) > > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On > Behalf Of kuradi8 > Sent: Wednesday, September 09, 2009 1:27 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Dear Moderator(s) > > May sounds about right. And I tend to ask a boatload of questions, then > disappear for a while until my next tank crisis. I suspect there are many > members like me -- off and on. I admit that I can be a PITA -- but I'm not > a spammer. :o) > > I brought this up only because I noticed that posts appear in clumps -- even > from long time regulars like \\Steve// and Amber. It's too consistent to be > coincidental so I ASSUME (and we all know what happens when we do that) that > a moderator is OK'ing everyone's posts in batches instead of allowing > trusted members to post automatically. > > According to my buddy who moderates another Group, he (as Moderator) sets > the universal setting to "MODERATE ALL" and then manually removes the > moderation from trusted members so that they can post automatically. > > He says that the reverse is also possible -- to "MODERATE NONE" and only > moderate the "problem" ones. But that means spammers can get in until > they're banned. And there seems to be a never-ending supply of spammers so > it's better to "MODERATE ALL" and trust those who are "known good." > > Bottom line: It's YOUR choice. :o) I'm just asking/suggesting because I > think it would make things easier for you/moderator(s) and more fluid for > the rest of us. > > It's OK to say NO to me. :o) > ~Kai > > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@> > wrote: > > > > How long have you been a member? Unless you've changed Yahoo ID's, > > the group's member section shows you since May of this year. I'm not > > sure what the default is for Yahoo Groups, but I'm pretty sure that > > only new members are moderated unless a mod/owner put you on moderation. > > > > I did a search of the Messages section for how long ago you made your > > first post but of course, the search still is not working properly (a > > long known issue with Yahoo Groups that they are supposed to have > > fixed). I've reported this several times via the link at the top of > > the search results page, to no avail. > > > > I did recently send a similar question to the mods/owners about taking > > some frequent posters off of moderation so maybe this post of yours > > will work in your case. > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles > > referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically > > under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > Kai wrote: > > > > Dear Moderator(s) > > > > I see that you need to approve EVERY message that we submit to be posted. > > It's a lot of work for you and the impatient ones among us (me) often > > get a little frustrated at the lack of instant gratification because > > we (I) want a quick reply. I belong to several other Yahoo Groups and > > they are set up so that the regular active members (of which we seem > > to have quite a few) can post automatically. Only newcomers and > > inactive members need to go through moderator approval. > > > > How do you feel about changing this Group to that sort of a system? > > ~Kai > > > > > > PS - You don't have to post this for everyone to see unless you want > > their opinions too. >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 43222	From: kuradi8	Date: 9/9/2009
Subject: Re: Deer in the headlights Moderator(s)

Thanks, Mike. I figure: "Ya don't ask, ya don't get." Like I said, it's OK if the answer is NO to "trusting" regular list members. I just replied from an earlier post so there will be another post with a final pitch from me. And on a completely different off-topic note... Headlight modulators... you mean on motorcycles? Ugh, don't get me started on those. I hate, hate, hate, hate, HATE them!!! Get that [long string of bad words} blinkie light out of my eyes! I am a STRONG proponent of amber beams for consipicuity instead. OK, I think we can consider this discussion closed. I've been out-voted, and that's OK. :o) ~Kai --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, Deenerz@... wrote: > > Hello Kai, > > In the past we have experimented with non moderation, moderating > problem members, non moderation of frequent posters, as well as > longtime members. It almost always seems to come back and bite us in > the arse :) > > Even if posts were not moderated there is no guarantee someone will > answer in a timely fashion,or worse you will get bad advice. > On some groups if ONE spammer gets through the membership pitches a > fit. This group is much more forgiving :) > > -Mike, one of many moderators. > > essage----- > From: kuradi8 <kuradi8@...> > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Sent: Wed, Sep 9, 2009 11:26 am > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Dear Moderator(s) > > > > > > May sounds about right. And I tend to ask a boatload of questions, then > disappear for a while until my next tank crisis. I suspect there are > many members like me -- off and on. I admit that I can be a PITA -- but > I'm not a spammer. :o) >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 43223	From: kuradi8	Date: 9/9/2009
Subject: Re: goldfish

Others will probably beat me to this reply but there are questions to be answered first: How big is the fish? How long have you had him? If he's new, is he in "just a bowl" or in a tank with some form of aeration? If he's new and in a tank, did you cycle the water first? How big is that tank? Have you done a recent water change? Approximately what percentage? Is the tank/bowl in direct sunlight for any amount of time during the day? Is it on another heat source like a TV? And whatever else anyone else asks... cos I'm dashing out the door. (Evening shift tonight.) ~Kai --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "laramoo1@..." <laramoo1@...> wrote: > > Hi everyone I am new to this group. I have a question about my gold fish. My goldfish mouth, fins, and head turned red. He did slow down a little and started eating a little less then normal. I don't know what is wrong with him. What can I do for him? >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 43224	From: kuradi8	Date: 9/9/2009
Subject: Re: Deer in the headlights Moderator(s)

> Kai wrote: > Headlight modulators... you mean on motorcycles? Sheesh, SORRY! I need to read more carefully. Deer in the headlights describes you from having me bombard this list. MODERATORS, not modulators. Sorry! I hope you're laughing at me the way I'm laughing at myself. ~Kai

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 43225	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 9/9/2009
Subject: Re: UV filter

Sorry I should read the box before I tell you how many I have, and yes I meant internal bacteria not parasites (sorry). I have 2 boxes, which each have 8 packets inside, it takes 2 packets the first day (per 10 gallons), and 2nd through 5th day add contents of 1 packet per 10 gallons... So that would be 7 packets for 5 days worth, it says to repeat only once if necessary. So I have enough for over 10 days worth (16 packets). Amber Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > > > I know you meant internal bacteria (not parasites) but I just wanted > to make > sure and or clarify for other readers. The bloating you are seeing is > usually from bacteria... if not attributable to constipation but since you > describe it as severe, I'm pretty sure it's bacterial. A fish will usually > stop eating before constipation gets to that point. > > No need to worry about the Maracyn 2 affecting your fish, as long as > you use > proper dosing and DO NOT overdose the antibiotics. It was the smell > lingering on the surface of the water, from the Mela/Pimafix that affects > the surface breathing labyrinth fish (Bettas, Gourami's, etc.). As far > as I > know, anything put into the water column will get inside the fish via > osmoregulation. Some meds might work better or quicker but Maracyn 2 is a > broad spectrum gram-negative antibiotic so it should do the trick. Are two > packets enough? I thought it took multiple re-dosing to complete the > treatment cycle? > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right > side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On > Behalf Of Amber Berglund > Sent: Wednesday, September 09, 2009 10:01 AM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] UV filter > > I have 2 packets enough to treat 10 gallons twice, for now. I will > move him > over to the 10 gallon today and start treatments with the maracyn 2 first > and see how it helps. The package didn't say anything about internal > parasites so I figured it only helped with external issues. > Thanks for clearing that up. > Do I need to worry about how much I dose with my gourami or will he not be > sensitive to maracyn 2? I knew about the pima/melafix being too strong for > them already though, but thanks for reminding me, I may have forgotten > when > it came time to dose the tank ;) LOL. > > Amber > > Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > > > > > > No. The UV will not help him. It's not going to kill the bacteria inside > > him. The Melafix/Pimafix cocktail will kill the waterborne bacteria and > > also work on the bacteria inside him. > > > > Something I might have expected you to know, but failed to mention in my > > previous post, is that you should use only 1/2 doses of these > medications > > with labyrinth fish. The strong smell hovers over the water and affects > > them when they breathe at the surface so instead of adding a full > dose of > > each, cut it back 50% to two 25% doses the first day, to slowly build up > > potency in the water, and then 50% doses each day on follow-up > treatments. > > If you see the fish showing more distress with breathing, do a 25% > PWC and > > cut back the dosing to only 25% dosage of each, each day through the > > treatment period. I've used it at 50% dosages with no adverse effects > > on my > > gourami but every fish is different. > > > > I was just re-reading your original post and I see that you do have > > Maracyn > > 2 on hand.. right? This would be better than the Melafix/Pimafix > mentioned > > above. Maracyn 2 is a gram-negative antibiotic and most bacterial issues > > with fish are gram-negative and I was just looking at the directions on > > DrsFosterSmith.com and it says that it treats internal infections > and for > > fish that will not eat. Remember to remove any carbon or other chemical > > filtration from the filter and NO UV filtration when medicating a tank > > either. Do not mix the Mela/Pimafix cocktail with the Maracyn 2. Use the > > Maracyn 2 first and then if that does not fix him up fully and you > run out > > of it, then you could do a series of PWC's and then start the > Mela/Pimafix > > cocktail. I'm not sure how much Maracyn 2 you have but at least with > > treating only a 10G tank, it will be more cost effective. I priced > it once > > for my 65G and the price wasn't pretty. > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>> > > (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right > > side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, > Month) > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On > > Behalf Of Amber Berglund > > Sent: Wednesday, September 09, 2009 1:33 AM > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] UV filter > > > > Okay I did a water change and some tank cleaning tonight, and I also > > turned > > the UV filter back on for now. I will pull the gourami out and put > him in > > the 10 gallon with some mela/pimafix, hopefully it helps. > > He's huge and it's just over the weekend, I gave peas this weekend > but he > > didn't eat any of them that I could see. And he's getting worse. I don't > > know if the UV filter would help him or not, should I keep him in > the tank > > with the UV filter or move him? > > > > Amber > > > > Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > > > > > > > > > I think it's a catch-22 that you are in. Here's my theory... > > > > > > What happens is that when you run the UV filter on the water, it kills > > > all water borne micro-organisms, both good ones and the bad ones too, > > > so the fish get use to living in this pristine water and then when you > > > turn off the UV filter, these micro-organisms return (naturally) and > > > since the fish have no immunity or resistance to them, they start to > > > get sick. > > > > > > It's kind of like what happens to kids (and adults) nowadays since > > > they stay inside so much, houses and offices are climate controlled > > > and air-tight, etc., so people do not build up immunities like we did > > > years ago when kids played outside all the time, playing in > > > mud-puddles, making mud-pies, falling in dog poo when playing sports, > > > etc. Nothing builds character better than landing face first into a > > > big pile after catching that fly ball or touchdown. LOL I guess up > > > there in Alaska, it would be a big pile of Moose poo. LOL > > > > > > Nowadays, parents and schools are getting even worse with kids, with > > > the > > > H1N1 virus and they are using all these anti-bacterial soaps, hand > > > lotions, teaching kids to cough into their elbows, etc. What ever > > > happened to just rubbing your runny nose with your hand and then > > > finishing that sandwich with mayonnaise and luncheon meat that has > > > been sitting at room temperature in your lunch box/bag since early > > > this morning? > > > > > > Now, "Those were the days!" > > http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0d8FTPv955I > <http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0d8FTPv955I> > > <http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0d8FTPv955I > <http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0d8FTPv955I>> > > > <http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0d8FTPv955I > <http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0d8FTPv955I> > > <http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0d8FTPv955I > <http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0d8FTPv955I>>> > > > > > > The next generation will get sick even easier due to all the crap > > > being done about H1N1 today. > > > > > > OK.. back to the fish... > > > > > > You need to either run the UV all the time or slowly start weaning > > > them off of the UV filtered water. Going cold-turkey might work for > > > most of the fish but some of the ones with weaker immune systems might > > > get sick.. as you are seeing. > > > > > > For now, start running the UV filter again and treat the symptoms. > > > Unless you saw the Gourami gorging on guppy fry, I would suspect it to > > > be an internal bacterial issue which Gourami's are prone to anyhow. > > > I've used Melafix/Pimafix cocktail for treating this issue on one of > > > my Gourami's after Katrina. While Melafix is a mild antibacterial and > > > Pimafix is a an antifungal treatment, when combined as a cocktail, it > > > turns into a much stronger antibacterial treatment. If you have both > > > of them, you could move the Gourami to a H-tank and treat him. You > > > could also observe his poop to get more information about what is > > bothering him. > > > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>> > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>>> > > (Links to any articles referenced in > > > above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels > > > and also under Archives by Year, Month) > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On Behalf Of Amber Berglund > > > Sent: Tuesday, September 08, 2009 6:14 PM > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > Subject: [AquaticLife] UV filter > > > > > > Okay, it seems like every time I unplug my UV filter from my 125 > > > gallon tank fish start dieing in it. Is this because of some sort of > > > bacteria die off or something maybe? I don't change anything else that > > > I'm doing, my filter cleanings are rotated so that I clean 2 of the > > > filters each week and do a water change. I've lost a couple of my > > > ram's and one of my hillstream loaches. My dwarf gourami is also > > > bloated all of a sudden, I'm going to feed peas tonight to see if that > > > helps, I can put him in a 10 gallon by himself if I need to (have one > > > cycled and ready when needed). > > > I didn't run tests yet this week since I saw the dead fish but other > > > than the bloated gourami no one else is acting oddly. I have to clean > > > the filters tonight and do a water change, I will try to remember to > > > run my tests before I do so ;) LOL. > > > I have some Maracyn 2 handy but it doesn't look like it helps for an > > > internal bacteria infection if that's what the gourami has. My LFS has > > > awful selection on meds, I can usually find better at the local > > > hardware/feed store, LOL. > > > I had some guppy's give birth a little while ago, perhaps the gourami > > > gorged himself on baby guppies? > > > Besides an Epsom salt bath are there any other suggestions besides > > > feeding shelled peas? > > > > > > Amber > > > > > > ------------------------------------ > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. > ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> > PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to > the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the > SUBJECT > LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- > <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. > > If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of unsubscribing, you > can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the > home page. > > Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:aquaticlife-digest%40yahoogroups.com> to receive the digest, which > includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email > > Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:aquaticlife-nomail%40yahoogroups.com> for the No E-Mail option > where > you will still be able to read messages on the group and post replies. > > Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:aquaticlife-normal%40yahoogroups.com> to receive individual > e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 43226	From: Kevin E Boyle	Date: 9/9/2009
Subject: Re: Air Pumps

the jehmco has an actual (heavy) metal case, is so quiet you can lliterally not hear it 2 feet away. i've taken it apart and it is very well made. i don't know liters per minute, it puts out a large volume of air. i tend to be skeptical about liters per minute claims anyway since it's meaningless without knowing at what psi a pump can produce that much air. let's put it this way, this one pump easily replaced two tetra tec deepwater pumps. With a thousand lies And a good disguise Hit em' right between the eyes Hit em' right between the eyes When you walk away, Nothing more to say. See the lightning in your eyes See em' running for their lives ><(((*> ><)))*> ><(((*> ----- Original Message ----- From: kuradi8 To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Wednesday, September 09, 2009 01:33 PM Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Air Pumps Hmmmmmmmmmm... Thanks for that suggestion, Kevin. I think the 8w ($80+ with shipping) would be plenty for me since I only want to run two 24" air curtains or two 4" disks. The specs don't give the lpm. Any clue what it might be? The Rena 400 ($40-ish with shipping) I have been looking at is also 8w and each of the two outlets puts out 3.333 lpm. On the other hand, this no-name (?) single-outlet pump with Chinese writing on the box http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=160355683140 is 6w, 4.35 psi and claims to put out 8 lpm. Even with shipping, TWO of those would come in at less than half the price of the Jehmco and possibly provide (insert simian chest beating here) "more air power" than either the Rena or the Jehmco. (Or are you skeptical of their claim too?) Who would have thought buying a pump would be this difficult??? I just don't want to be as disappointed in whatever I get next as I am in the Whisper 60. I hate wasting money like that. ~Kai > Kevin wrote: > > > http://www.jehmco.com/html/diaphragm_air_pumps.html#DAPMH8-15 > > this is what finally worked for me, runs six very large airstones with air leftover, it's a little more money but has an actual metal housing, inside it's very well built! i went through a lot of so called "high output" air pumps 'till i found this. my tanks are all really deep and i need volume and pressure, this pump gives me both. (i have an 8, know someone who has the 15, - more air but also runs hotter because if the increased coil size) > > Kai wrote: > > I've been shopping online, especially on ebay (people bid crazy high over Labor Day Weekend) and now I have new questions. > > My top contenders at the moment are the Tetra AP300 and the Rena 400. The AP300 will only tell me that it's 7.5w. All the other specs are well guarded secrets. > > The Rena 400 is 8w and claims to put out 2x200 liters/hour. BUT... That's only 3.3 liters/minute and I've seen other "no-name" units for smaller tanks claiming as much as 8 liters/minute. So I question whether that's the right spec for me to be looking at. (Kinda like a large car with a small engine boasting about the number of cup-holders.) > > The Rena 400's online operator's manual shows it runs 4" and 6" air stones. So what would I need for my dual 24" curtain wands? A Sears automotive shop compressor??? > > OK, rant over. (And now I hope you understand my confusion.) > > So... How do I pick an air pump? What is the most important spec? Wattage? Liters per hour/minute? PSI? > > Thanks in advance for your help. :o) > ~Kai > > > On September 9, Kai wrote: > > > > I bought a Whisper-60 for my 55g about a year ago and I'm disappointed with its output. I had two 24" curtain wands and thought they might have been too old/clogged so I replaced them with two 4" disks. They are also wimpy-wimpy-wimpy in their output. One just "sizzles" a little air, the other "blurps" a big bubble every 10 seconds or so. > > > > I think it's the air pump's fault. It started out weak and seems to have gotten worse. I would like to replace it with something with a bit more horsepower. Any recommendations? > > ~Kai > > (Pennsylvania) > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 43227	From: fishdudeut	Date: 9/9/2009
Subject: Re: Tap Water Base Line.

Well I did a 72 hour test and the nitrite is up even more. I was thinking about it last night and the whole idea of water changes is about FRESH water. if I leave water in a jug or barrel for a few weeks (like with the 55 it would be a month's worth of PCW) and do the water changes from there it's really not fresh water. So I'll be looking into a python or something of the likes. Now to answer your question. The barrel is one of the blue ones from Wal-Mart. With the two small screw caps one for the pump and the other to add water into the barrel. The barrel is kept in the laundry room and use it is covered like I said with the caps. And like I said I bought it from Wal-Mart. And it is plastic. Now for another question. If I do by the python thing and I fill the tank with it how do you added water conditioner? Do you add enough for the whole tank or just the water you put in? Will it be safe for the fish to have 14 gallons or so of untreated water to start with? I remember you saying you hated buckets so I'm assuming you fill then add the water treatment stuff right? Well again how much to you add enough for total tank volume or just for the added water? --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@...> wrote: > > More than likely, the barrel is not the issue but nothing wrong with > checking it out. > > Plastic or metal barrel? I'm not sure if it matters but it could, > especially since there are various grades of barrels depending on their > intended use. > > Did you buy this barrel or get it somewhere for free... and let us know > where? > > Running an airstone would help if you were having issues with your tap water > having a high CO2 or other dissolved gas issue but I haven't seen this as an > issue with any of your tap water test results so I do NOT think running an > airstone is necessary. > > Where is this barrel kept? Is it covered to prevent contamination if any > contamination is possible? > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right > side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) > > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On > Behalf Of fishdudeut > Sent: Tuesday, September 08, 2009 10:40 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Tap Water Base Line. > > The barrel is about a month old and nothing been it it but water. Will this > still be using for the water changes when the tank is cycled? Or will this > pretty much be a no go? Would running an AIR stone in the barrel make any > kid of difference? > > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@> > wrote: > > > > Since you have some ammonia in your tap water, probably from the > > chloramine and then when you use your dechlor, it leaves a little > > residual ammonia, then while this water is sitting in your 55G drum, > > you obviously have some nitrifying bacteria living on the walls of the > > drum and they convert the ammonia to nitrite and then to nitrate while the > water is sitting there. > > The 5G bucket, which hasn't been sitting around long term, does not > > have nitrifying bacteria growing on it's walls. > > > > This is also why so many folks have nitrates in their tap water.. due > > to nitrification of ammonia (from the chloramine) while it's still in > > the city pipes or underground springs, if a well. > > > > Is this a plastic or metal drum? What was it used for before? > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles > > referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically > > under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] > > On Behalf Of fishdudeut > > Sent: Tuesday, September 08, 2009 4:44 PM > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > Subject: [AquaticLife] Tap Water Base Line. > > > > Hello. I decided to do a new base line on my water (my tank is cycling > > as we > > speak) > > > > I tested for everything the 2nd time around and > > > > My finish test day was this > > > > Ammonia .25 > > Nitrite .25 > > Nitrate 5.0 > > > > The other 2 days they were 0.00 all but Ammonia and that was .25 > > > > I have one of those 55 gallon water drums and that is where I was > > planning on keeping water for water changes. I pumped out each day to > > a gallon water jug that has had nothing in it but water. > > > > I'm wondering if this is normal to read o nitrate and nitrite for 48 > > hours and then on the 72 house test they are there? > > > > I set up 3 gallon in a 5 gallon bucket and the test as of today are > > > > Ammonia .25 > > Nitrate 0 > > Nitrite 0 > > > > Guess I just need to see if the barrel is causing any problems. >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 43228	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 9/9/2009
Subject: Re: Deer in the headlights Moderator(s)

Now we're laughing with you Kai, not at you ;) LOL. And don't worry you'll probably be approved for regular posting at some point, most of the members who've been here for several months or more are no longer on moderation. Amber kuradi8 wrote: > > > > Kai wrote: > > Headlight modulators... you mean on motorcycles? > > Sheesh, SORRY! I need to read more carefully. > > Deer in the headlights describes you from having me bombard this list. > > MODERATORS, not modulators. > > Sorry! > > I hope you're laughing at me the way I'm laughing at myself. > ~Kai > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 43229	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 9/9/2009
Subject: Re: Tap Water Base Line.

It is safe to add the dechlor product straight to your tank before you add the water with the python hose. Only dose for the water you are ADDIng not the whole tank, otherwise you will overdose on your dechlor and it could build up to harmful levels in the tank. By untreated water are you talking about with the python? As long as your tap water is not drastically different from your tank pH/ammonia/nitrite/nitrate you should be safe to do normal 25% water changes each week. If your tap pH is very different you may have to do 10% or less every few days for your water changes so you don't shock your fish. Also if you are going to use the python either make sure your water is close to the same temp that you are adding or you can very very slowly trickle in cooler water so that it has time to raise to the tank temp rather than lowering your tank temperature. Buckets are horrible if you have big tanks like I do (125 gallon tank), it's not too awful with a 55 gallon or small though. And again, only add enough dechlor for the water you are replacing, not the whole tank. Hope that helps, Amber fishdudeut wrote: > > > Well I did a 72 hour test and the nitrite is up even more. I was > thinking about it last night and the whole idea of water changes is > about FRESH water. if I leave water in a jug or barrel for a few weeks > (like with the 55 it would be a month's worth of PCW) and do the water > changes from there it's really not fresh water. So I'll be looking > into a python or something of the likes. > > Now to answer your question. The barrel is one of the blue ones from > Wal-Mart. With the two small screw caps one for the pump and the other > to add water into the barrel. The barrel is kept in the laundry room > and use it is covered like I said with the caps. And like I said I > bought it from Wal-Mart. And it is plastic. > > Now for another question. If I do by the python thing and I fill the > tank with it how do you added water conditioner? Do you add enough for > the whole tank or just the water you put in? Will it be safe for the > fish to have 14 gallons or so of untreated water to start with? > > I remember you saying you hated buckets so I'm assuming you fill then > add the water treatment stuff right? Well again how much to you add > enough for total tank volume or just for the added water? > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>, "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" > <GoldLenny@...> wrote: > > > > More than likely, the barrel is not the issue but nothing wrong with > > checking it out. > > > > Plastic or metal barrel? I'm not sure if it matters but it could, > > especially since there are various grades of barrels depending on their > > intended use. > > > > Did you buy this barrel or get it somewhere for free... and let us know > > where? > > > > Running an airstone would help if you were having issues with your > tap water > > having a high CO2 or other dissolved gas issue but I haven't seen > this as an > > issue with any of your tap water test results so I do NOT think > running an > > airstone is necessary. > > > > Where is this barrel kept? Is it covered to prevent contamination if any > > contamination is possible? > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right > > side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, > Month) > > > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On > > Behalf Of fishdudeut > > Sent: Tuesday, September 08, 2009 10:40 PM > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Tap Water Base Line. > > > > The barrel is about a month old and nothing been it it but water. > Will this > > still be using for the water changes when the tank is cycled? Or > will this > > pretty much be a no go? Would running an AIR stone in the barrel > make any > > kid of difference? > > > > > > > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>, "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" > <GoldLenny@> > > wrote: > > > > > > Since you have some ammonia in your tap water, probably from the > > > chloramine and then when you use your dechlor, it leaves a little > > > residual ammonia, then while this water is sitting in your 55G drum, > > > you obviously have some nitrifying bacteria living on the walls of > the > > > drum and they convert the ammonia to nitrite and then to nitrate > while the > > water is sitting there. > > > The 5G bucket, which hasn't been sitting around long term, does not > > > have nitrifying bacteria growing on it's walls. > > > > > > This is also why so many folks have nitrates in their tap water.. due > > > to nitrification of ammonia (from the chloramine) while it's still in > > > the city pipes or underground springs, if a well. > > > > > > Is this a plastic or metal drum? What was it used for before? > > > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> (Links to any articles > > > referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, > alphabetically > > > under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) > > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] > > > On Behalf Of fishdudeut > > > Sent: Tuesday, September 08, 2009 4:44 PM > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > Subject: [AquaticLife] Tap Water Base Line. > > > > > > Hello. I decided to do a new base line on my water (my tank is > cycling > > > as we > > > speak) > > > > > > I tested for everything the 2nd time around and > > > > > > My finish test day was this > > > > > > Ammonia .25 > > > Nitrite .25 > > > Nitrate 5.0 > > > > > > The other 2 days they were 0.00 all but Ammonia and that was .25 > > > > > > I have one of those 55 gallon water drums and that is where I was > > > planning on keeping water for water changes. I pumped out each day to > > > a gallon water jug that has had nothing in it but water. > > > > > > I'm wondering if this is normal to read o nitrate and nitrite for 48 > > > hours and then on the 72 house test they are there? > > > > > > I set up 3 gallon in a 5 gallon bucket and the test as of today are > > > > > > Ammonia .25 > > > Nitrate 0 > > > Nitrite 0 > > > > > > Guess I just need to see if the barrel is causing any problems. > > > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 43230	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 9/9/2009
Subject: Snail issues

I have one or two rather large and older mystery snails who appear to be having some sort of issue that I have not heard of yet. They are suddenly VERY heavy, and look like a poor turtle when they end up upside down and can't tip themselves back over onto their foot instead of their "backs". Is this just normal for older mystery snails? Is there something I should do for the snail? I tried setting it up on top of the floating plants but it's much heavier than the rest of my snails and it won't sit there without sinking. I put the snail with the most issues on a water covered part of the floating driftwood so that it can get air if it needs to (most of my snails go to the surface for air, guess they don't get enough in the water column from the plants). Amber

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 43231	From: fishdudeut	Date: 9/9/2009
Subject: Re: Tap Water Base Line.

Makes since. I have another question about water treatment. On the back of the API bottle it tells you to add 1 ML for 20 gallons of water of water to remove chlorine and detoxify heavy metals and to add 1 ML to 5 gallons of water to break the chloramines bond. Should I be added for 5 or 20 gallons? --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, Amber Berglund <arberglund@...> wrote: > > It is safe to add the dechlor product straight to your tank before you > add the water with the python hose. Only dose for the water you are > ADDIng not the whole tank, otherwise you will overdose on your dechlor > and it could build up to harmful levels in the tank. > By untreated water are you talking about with the python? As long as > your tap water is not drastically different from your tank > pH/ammonia/nitrite/nitrate you should be safe to do normal 25% water > changes each week. If your tap pH is very different you may have to do > 10% or less every few days for your water changes so you don't shock > your fish. Also if you are going to use the python either make sure your > water is close to the same temp that you are adding or you can very very > slowly trickle in cooler water so that it has time to raise to the tank > temp rather than lowering your tank temperature. > Buckets are horrible if you have big tanks like I do (125 gallon tank), > it's not too awful with a 55 gallon or small though. And again, only add > enough dechlor for the water you are replacing, not the whole tank. > Hope that helps, > Amber > > fishdudeut wrote: > > > > > > Well I did a 72 hour test and the nitrite is up even more. I was > > thinking about it last night and the whole idea of water changes is > > about FRESH water. if I leave water in a jug or barrel for a few weeks > > (like with the 55 it would be a month's worth of PCW) and do the water > > changes from there it's really not fresh water. So I'll be looking > > into a python or something of the likes. > > > > Now to answer your question. The barrel is one of the blue ones from > > Wal-Mart. With the two small screw caps one for the pump and the other > > to add water into the barrel. The barrel is kept in the laundry room > > and use it is covered like I said with the caps. And like I said I > > bought it from Wal-Mart. And it is plastic. > > > > Now for another question. If I do by the python thing and I fill the > > tank with it how do you added water conditioner? Do you add enough for > > the whole tank or just the water you put in? Will it be safe for the > > fish to have 14 gallons or so of untreated water to start with? > > > > I remember you saying you hated buckets so I'm assuming you fill then > > add the water treatment stuff right? Well again how much to you add > > enough for total tank volume or just for the added water? > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>, "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" > > <GoldLenny@> wrote: > > > > > > More than likely, the barrel is not the issue but nothing wrong with > > > checking it out. > > > > > > Plastic or metal barrel? I'm not sure if it matters but it could, > > > especially since there are various grades of barrels depending on their > > > intended use. > > > > > > Did you buy this barrel or get it somewhere for free... and let us know > > > where? > > > > > > Running an airstone would help if you were having issues with your > > tap water > > > having a high CO2 or other dissolved gas issue but I haven't seen > > this as an > > > issue with any of your tap water test results so I do NOT think > > running an > > > airstone is necessary. > > > > > > Where is this barrel kept? Is it covered to prevent contamination if any > > > contamination is possible? > > > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right > > > side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, > > Month) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On > > > Behalf Of fishdudeut > > > Sent: Tuesday, September 08, 2009 10:40 PM > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Tap Water Base Line. > > > > > > The barrel is about a month old and nothing been it it but water. > > Will this > > > still be using for the water changes when the tank is cycled? Or > > will this > > > pretty much be a no go? Would running an AIR stone in the barrel > > make any > > > kid of difference? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>, "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" > > <GoldLenny@> > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > Since you have some ammonia in your tap water, probably from the > > > > chloramine and then when you use your dechlor, it leaves a little > > > > residual ammonia, then while this water is sitting in your 55G drum, > > > > you obviously have some nitrifying bacteria living on the walls of > > the > > > > drum and they convert the ammonia to nitrite and then to nitrate > > while the > > > water is sitting there. > > > > The 5G bucket, which hasn't been sitting around long term, does not > > > > have nitrifying bacteria growing on it's walls. > > > > > > > > This is also why so many folks have nitrates in their tap water.. due > > > > to nitrification of ammonia (from the chloramine) while it's still in > > > > the city pipes or underground springs, if a well. > > > > > > > > Is this a plastic or metal drum? What was it used for before? > > > > > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> (Links to any articles > > > > referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, > > alphabetically > > > > under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) > > > > > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] > > > > On Behalf Of fishdudeut > > > > Sent: Tuesday, September 08, 2009 4:44 PM > > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > Subject: [AquaticLife] Tap Water Base Line. > > > > > > > > Hello. I decided to do a new base line on my water (my tank is > > cycling > > > > as we > > > > speak) > > > > > > > > I tested for everything the 2nd time around and > > > > > > > > My finish test day was this > > > > > > > > Ammonia .25 > > > > Nitrite .25 > > > > Nitrate 5.0 > > > > > > > > The other 2 days they were 0.00 all but Ammonia and that was .25 > > > > > > > > I have one of those 55 gallon water drums and that is where I was > > > > planning on keeping water for water changes. I pumped out each day to > > > > a gallon water jug that has had nothing in it but water. > > > > > > > > I'm wondering if this is normal to read o nitrate and nitrite for 48 > > > > hours and then on the 72 house test they are there? > > > > > > > > I set up 3 gallon in a 5 gallon bucket and the test as of today are > > > > > > > > Ammonia .25 > > > > Nitrate 0 > > > > Nitrite 0 > > > > > > > > Guess I just need to see if the barrel is causing any problems. > > > > > > > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 43232	From: Donna Ransome	Date: 9/9/2009
Subject: Re: Algae problem......

Sounds like you have green spot algae. A credit card works well, but you have to go over it several times. It helps if you scrape the algae every week with water change so the “hard” stuff can’t get a head start. _____ From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of jimpat101 Sent: Wednesday, September 09, 2009 8:57 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Algae problem...... Thanks for all the advice.. The tank is FW, 72 gal. I change 20% a week and clean the filter once a month. I going with the razor blade as the plastic scraper just takes to long to get tha algae off.. The tank gets some indirect sun most of the day.. Jim [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 43233	From: Donna Ransome	Date: 9/9/2009
Subject: Re: Alge on glass problem...

Even with glass you can scratch with a razor blade, be careful. _____ From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Jpateson@... Sent: Wednesday, September 09, 2009 9:21 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: Alge on glass problem... Kai, I have a pleco, but, the algae is spotty on the glass and hard to scrape off, the plastic scraper is like a credit card and it takes 3 to 4 passes to get off, which is why I want to go to the razor blade. Tinting is not an option as the tank is in the living room and I don't think my wife would go for it. I also have one of those tank scrubbers, it does no good....... Jim In a message dated 9/9/2009 8:08:23 A.M. Central Daylight Time, kuradi8@yahoo. <mailto:kuradi8%40yahoo.com> com writes: How about an algae eater or pl*co? This is more for floating algae, but how about more aeration? If your tank is getting too much light, how about some automotive window tinting? (The smaller the number%, the darker the tint.) And this is a dangerous way to infect your fish but how about hand scraping using an old credit card? Wash your hand and arm well beforehand and be sure to rinse thoroughly to remove any soap residue, etc. If compatible, I still vote for an algae eater or pl*co. ~Kai --- In _AquaticLife@AquaticLife@Aqu_ (mailto:AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com) , "jimpat101" <Jpateson@..J> wrote: > > > What to you use to remove the algae from the glass? I bought a plastic scraper for the LFS,that will take months to remove the algae with... > Any ideas? > > Thanks, > > Jim > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 43234	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 9/9/2009
Subject: Re: Dear Moderator(s)

I do not know if you are moderated or not. However, e-mail is not a method for instant gratification. E-mail is a best effort means of communication. E-mail is not guaranteed to reach its destination in a timely manner, or, even, at all. I have sent messages to various lists hosted on Yahoo! and they have not been delivered for minutes, hours, days, and one even took two weeks to arrive on the list it was sent to. That e-mail does as well as it does as a medium for communication is nothing short of a miracle. If you are on moderation here, then that will add a bit to the delay while it sits in a queue waiting for a moderator to come along and decide whether it should be allowed to pass or not. Not being moderated means that you will have the gratification of seeing your message sooner than if you are moderated, maybe a few as seconds sooner, depending on the presence of a moderator. This group has a number of moderators, some more active than others. All in all, delivery of e-mail is a roll of the dice, moderated or not. In case there are those of you out there wondering about my take on e-mail, here are a few lines from my business card: LAN Doctor, Inc. Vice President Senior Network Administrator \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of kuradi8 Sent: Wednesday, September 09, 2009 4:12 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Dear Moderator(s) Lenny wrote: \\I noticed you put "(Pennsylvania)" under your signature in one of your recent posts to help overcome any prejudices that might be inferred from your Yahoo ID and name.// Tee hee, no, that's not why I did that. It was in case someone wanted to point me to a source. Sending me to Walmart wouldn't help if I were in the UK, etc. As for Kai, yes that's my name. My heritage is from a country that is "almost" Scandinavian -- so I'm blonde (gray now) haired, blue eyed, fair skinned, etc. kuradi8 is for kuradi eit, which is my standard online "handle." Individually, each word isn't bad but put them together and my mother would stick a bar of soap in my mouth. Unfortunately, there is no way to keep spammers who pretend to be trusted off the list. But more than likely, they are 'bots or folks whose IDs have been hijacked. I guarantee you that if you get spam from my ID, it's not from *ME.* And I'd venture to say that's true of 90-some-odd percent of others who were once trusted. Obviously, *I* am on moderation. It takes a while before my posts show up. That's OK. But I do get impatient. It takes a while for others to see my questions and more time until I see their moderated replies. As I said, it's more "conversational" to be able to ask and answer and ask again with those who happen to have a few minutes to spare. ~Kai --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@...> wrote: > > Usually, folks like myself, \\Steve// and Amber will reply to a bunch of > messages at once, as we are checking our mail, so this may be why you see > our messages all show up in a close time group. I'm hanging around the > office today so I'm replying as I see messages come in right now. I know > \\Steve// and I are not on moderation and I'm pretty sure Amber is not on > moderation any longer either. > > Up until the past six months or so, the group was not using all of the > anti-spammer member security methods to prevent spammers from joining the > group so the mods were having to reject tons of spammer messages from ever > reaching the group. Since implementing all of the anti-spammer member > methods, we are probably blocking over 50% of the "people" that attempt to > join the group since they do not past the anti-spammer smell test and this > has resulted in a HUGE decrease in spammers trying to send spam to the group > but we also have to presume there are a bunch of "sleepers" who are members > who previously joined when there was limited security, waiting to attack if > the group turns off moderation (Sheesh.. sounds like I'm paranoid... lol). > We've also seen people join and post relatively benign messages/replies and > then after being taken off of moderation, they start their spamming so it's > a constant battle for all of the various Yahoo Group's owners and/or > moderators. > > Call me a racist, prejudice or whatever you want to call me... as long as > you don't call me late for dinner... lol... but a LARGE percentage of the > attempts by spammers to join this group (and others that I own or moderate) > are from folks in India so there's always a chance that your Yahoo ID (which > looks Indian, or from that area of the world, to me.. but then I would be > admitting that I'm prejudice, that is pre-judging someone, and yes we all do > it and in the "old days" it was called intuition and was a good thing before > the PC crowd came along) could have kept you on moderation a little longer > than usual. > > I'm sure I'm not the first person to presume or assume this (and yes, I know > what assume means... lol) as I noticed you put "(Pennsylvania)" under your > signature in one of your recent posts to help overcome any prejudices that > might be inferred from your Yahoo ID and name. It's also why my favorite > Governor (Louisiana Governor Bobby Jindal... his parents immigrated legally > from India and since I support and voted for him, I guess I'm not too much > of a prejudiced racist redneck... lol) changed his name to Bobby as a kid, > not withstanding the fact that his favorite Brady Bunch actor was Bobby > Brady. ;-) > > Last but not least, it's OK to be a PITA... just not a member of PeTA. ;-) > I'm a HUGE PITA (or some might say just the "A" part of PITA) when the need > arises. LOL > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right > side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) > > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On > Behalf Of kuradi8 > Sent: Wednesday, September 09, 2009 1:27 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Dear Moderator(s) > > May sounds about right. And I tend to ask a boatload of questions, then > disappear for a while until my next tank crisis. I suspect there are many > members like me -- off and on. I admit that I can be a PITA -- but I'm not > a spammer. :o) > > I brought this up only because I noticed that posts appear in clumps -- even > from long time regulars like \\Steve// and Amber. It's too consistent to be > coincidental so I ASSUME (and we all know what happens when we do that) that > a moderator is OK'ing everyone's posts in batches instead of allowing > trusted members to post automatically. > > According to my buddy who moderates another Group, he (as Moderator) sets > the universal setting to "MODERATE ALL" and then manually removes the > moderation from trusted members so that they can post automatically. > > He says that the reverse is also possible -- to "MODERATE NONE" and only > moderate the "problem" ones. But that means spammers can get in until > they're banned. And there seems to be a never-ending supply of spammers so > it's better to "MODERATE ALL" and trust those who are "known good." > > Bottom line: It's YOUR choice. :o) I'm just asking/suggesting because I > think it would make things easier for you/moderator(s) and more fluid for > the rest of us. > > It's OK to say NO to me. :o) > ~Kai > > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@> > wrote: > > > > How long have you been a member? Unless you've changed Yahoo ID's, > > the group's member section shows you since May of this year. I'm not > > sure what the default is for Yahoo Groups, but I'm pretty sure that > > only new members are moderated unless a mod/owner put you on moderation. > > > > I did a search of the Messages section for how long ago you made your > > first post but of course, the search still is not working properly (a > > long known issue with Yahoo Groups that they are supposed to have > > fixed). I've reported this several times via the link at the top of > > the search results page, to no avail. > > > > I did recently send a similar question to the mods/owners about taking > > some frequent posters off of moderation so maybe this post of yours > > will work in your case. > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles > > referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically > > under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > Kai wrote: > > > > Dear Moderator(s) > > > > I see that you need to approve EVERY message that we submit to be posted. > > It's a lot of work for you and the impatient ones among us (me) often > > get a little frustrated at the lack of instant gratification because > > we (I) want a quick reply. I belong to several other Yahoo Groups and > > they are set up so that the regular active members (of which we seem > > to have quite a few) can post automatically. Only newcomers and > > inactive members need to go through moderator approval. > > > > How do you feel about changing this Group to that sort of a system? > > ~Kai > > > > > > PS - You don't have to post this for everyone to see unless you want > > their opinions too. >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 43235	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 9/9/2009
Subject: Re: Dear Moderator(s)

Uh oh... a spammer snuck through. Oh wait.. it's just \\Steve// plugging his biz a little. ;-) And yes, I'll go on the record and say that \\Steve// knows email and computers as good, if not better than fish keeping. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Steve Szabo Sent: Wednesday, September 09, 2009 7:39 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: Dear Moderator(s) I do not know if you are moderated or not. However, e-mail is not a method for instant gratification. E-mail is a best effort means of communication. E-mail is not guaranteed to reach its destination in a timely manner, or, even, at all. I have sent messages to various lists hosted on Yahoo! and they have not been delivered for minutes, hours, days, and one even took two weeks to arrive on the list it was sent to. That e-mail does as well as it does as a medium for communication is nothing short of a miracle. If you are on moderation here, then that will add a bit to the delay while it sits in a queue waiting for a moderator to come along and decide whether it should be allowed to pass or not. Not being moderated means that you will have the gratification of seeing your message sooner than if you are moderated, maybe a few as seconds sooner, depending on the presence of a moderator. This group has a number of moderators, some more active than others. All in all, delivery of e-mail is a roll of the dice, moderated or not. In case there are those of you out there wondering about my take on e-mail, here are a few lines from my business card: LAN Doctor, Inc. Vice President Senior Network Administrator \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of kuradi8 Sent: Wednesday, September 09, 2009 4:12 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Dear Moderator(s) Lenny wrote: \\I noticed you put "(Pennsylvania)" under your signature in one of your recent posts to help overcome any prejudices that might be inferred from your Yahoo ID and name.// Tee hee, no, that's not why I did that. It was in case someone wanted to point me to a source. Sending me to Walmart wouldn't help if I were in the UK, etc. As for Kai, yes that's my name. My heritage is from a country that is "almost" Scandinavian -- so I'm blonde (gray now) haired, blue eyed, fair skinned, etc. kuradi8 is for kuradi eit, which is my standard online "handle." Individually, each word isn't bad but put them together and my mother would stick a bar of soap in my mouth. Unfortunately, there is no way to keep spammers who pretend to be trusted off the list. But more than likely, they are 'bots or folks whose IDs have been hijacked. I guarantee you that if you get spam from my ID, it's not from *ME.* And I'd venture to say that's true of 90-some-odd percent of others who were once trusted. Obviously, *I* am on moderation. It takes a while before my posts show up. That's OK. But I do get impatient. It takes a while for others to see my questions and more time until I see their moderated replies. As I said, it's more "conversational" to be able to ask and answer and ask again with those who happen to have a few minutes to spare. ~Kai --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@...> wrote: > > Usually, folks like myself, \\Steve// and Amber will reply to a bunch of > messages at once, as we are checking our mail, so this may be why you see > our messages all show up in a close time group. I'm hanging around the > office today so I'm replying as I see messages come in right now. I know > \\Steve// and I are not on moderation and I'm pretty sure Amber is not on > moderation any longer either. > > Up until the past six months or so, the group was not using all of the > anti-spammer member security methods to prevent spammers from joining the > group so the mods were having to reject tons of spammer messages from ever > reaching the group. Since implementing all of the anti-spammer member > methods, we are probably blocking over 50% of the "people" that attempt to > join the group since they do not past the anti-spammer smell test and this > has resulted in a HUGE decrease in spammers trying to send spam to the group > but we also have to presume there are a bunch of "sleepers" who are members > who previously joined when there was limited security, waiting to attack if > the group turns off moderation (Sheesh.. sounds like I'm paranoid... lol). > We've also seen people join and post relatively benign messages/replies and > then after being taken off of moderation, they start their spamming so it's > a constant battle for all of the various Yahoo Group's owners and/or > moderators. > > Call me a racist, prejudice or whatever you want to call me... as long as > you don't call me late for dinner... lol... but a LARGE percentage of the > attempts by spammers to join this group (and others that I own or moderate) > are from folks in India so there's always a chance that your Yahoo ID (which > looks Indian, or from that area of the world, to me.. but then I would be > admitting that I'm prejudice, that is pre-judging someone, and yes we all do > it and in the "old days" it was called intuition and was a good thing before > the PC crowd came along) could have kept you on moderation a little longer > than usual. > > I'm sure I'm not the first person to presume or assume this (and yes, I know > what assume means... lol) as I noticed you put "(Pennsylvania)" under your > signature in one of your recent posts to help overcome any prejudices that > might be inferred from your Yahoo ID and name. It's also why my favorite > Governor (Louisiana Governor Bobby Jindal... his parents immigrated legally > from India and since I support and voted for him, I guess I'm not too much > of a prejudiced racist redneck... lol) changed his name to Bobby as a kid, > not withstanding the fact that his favorite Brady Bunch actor was Bobby > Brady. ;-) > > Last but not least, it's OK to be a PITA... just not a member of PeTA. ;-) > I'm a HUGE PITA (or some might say just the "A" part of PITA) when the need > arises. LOL > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles > referenced in above reply are listed on the right > side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) > > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On > Behalf Of kuradi8 > Sent: Wednesday, September 09, 2009 1:27 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Dear Moderator(s) > > May sounds about right. And I tend to ask a boatload of questions, then > disappear for a while until my next tank crisis. I suspect there are many > members like me -- off and on. I admit that I can be a PITA -- but I'm not > a spammer. :o) > > I brought this up only because I noticed that posts appear in clumps -- even > from long time regulars like \\Steve// and Amber. It's too consistent to be > coincidental so I ASSUME (and we all know what happens when we do that) that > a moderator is OK'ing everyone's posts in batches instead of allowing > trusted members to post automatically. > > According to my buddy who moderates another Group, he (as Moderator) sets > the universal setting to "MODERATE ALL" and then manually removes the > moderation from trusted members so that they can post automatically. > > He says that the reverse is also possible -- to "MODERATE NONE" and only > moderate the "problem" ones. But that means spammers can get in until > they're banned. And there seems to be a never-ending supply of spammers so > it's better to "MODERATE ALL" and trust those who are "known good." > > Bottom line: It's YOUR choice. :o) I'm just asking/suggesting because I > think it would make things easier for you/moderator(s) and more fluid for > the rest of us. > > It's OK to say NO to me. :o) > ~Kai > > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@> > wrote: > > > > How long have you been a member? Unless you've changed Yahoo ID's, > > the group's member section shows you since May of this year. I'm not > > sure what the default is for Yahoo Groups, but I'm pretty sure that > > only new members are moderated unless a mod/owner put you on moderation. > > > > I did a search of the Messages section for how long ago you made your > > first post but of course, the search still is not working properly (a > > long known issue with Yahoo Groups that they are supposed to have > > fixed). I've reported this several times via the link at the top of > > the search results page, to no avail. > > > > I did recently send a similar question to the mods/owners about taking > > some frequent posters off of moderation so maybe this post of yours > > will work in your case. > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles > > referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically > > under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > Kai wrote: > > > > Dear Moderator(s) > > > > I see that you need to approve EVERY message that we submit to be posted. > > It's a lot of work for you and the impatient ones among us (me) often > > get a little frustrated at the lack of instant gratification because > > we (I) want a quick reply. I belong to several other Yahoo Groups and > > they are set up so that the regular active members (of which we seem > > to have quite a few) can post automatically. Only newcomers and > > inactive members need to go through moderator approval. > > > > How do you feel about changing this Group to that sort of a system? > > ~Kai > > > > > > PS - You don't have to post this for everyone to see unless you want > > their opinions too.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 43236	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 9/9/2009
Subject: Re: Tap Water Base Line.

It depends on if you have chlorine or chloramine treated water. I'm leaning towards chloramine since you are showing an ammonia level but you need to check with your water utility to be certain. See my blog article about "Chlorine-Chloramine..." for the series of emails between me and one of the scientists at my water utility to help explain some of the misleading info contained in some water quality reports, so you cannot rely solely on the water quality report to find out whether you have chlorine or chloramine... or something else. I also usually just use 1 ml per 10G, not 5G, even though I have chloramine treated water. API is the only product that I know of that gives the dual-dose directions. All of the others that I've looked at gives the same dosages whether it's chlorine or chloramine and most of them have the same primary ingredients, Sodium Thiosulfate and EDTA, so I'm not sure why API's is different. It's probably something someone should email API about and ask. hint! hint! http://www.aquariumpharm.com and use the contact us form. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of fishdudeut Sent: Wednesday, September 09, 2009 5:23 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Tap Water Base Line. Makes since. I have another question about water treatment. On the back of the API bottle it tells you to add 1 ML for 20 gallons of water of water to remove chlorine and detoxify heavy metals and to add 1 ML to 5 gallons of water to break the chloramines bond. Should I be added for 5 or 20 gallons? --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, Amber Berglund <arberglund@...> wrote: > > It is safe to add the dechlor product straight to your tank before you > add the water with the python hose. Only dose for the water you are > ADDIng not the whole tank, otherwise you will overdose on your dechlor > and it could build up to harmful levels in the tank. > By untreated water are you talking about with the python? As long as > your tap water is not drastically different from your tank > pH/ammonia/nitrite/nitrate you should be safe to do normal 25% water > changes each week. If your tap pH is very different you may have to do > 10% or less every few days for your water changes so you don't shock > your fish. Also if you are going to use the python either make sure > your water is close to the same temp that you are adding or you can > very very slowly trickle in cooler water so that it has time to raise > to the tank temp rather than lowering your tank temperature. > Buckets are horrible if you have big tanks like I do (125 gallon > tank), it's not too awful with a 55 gallon or small though. And again, > only add enough dechlor for the water you are replacing, not the whole tank. > Hope that helps, > Amber > > fishdudeut wrote: > > > > > > Well I did a 72 hour test and the nitrite is up even more. I was > > thinking about it last night and the whole idea of water changes is > > about FRESH water. if I leave water in a jug or barrel for a few > > weeks (like with the 55 it would be a month's worth of PCW) and do > > the water changes from there it's really not fresh water. So I'll be > > looking into a python or something of the likes. > > > > Now to answer your question. The barrel is one of the blue ones from > > Wal-Mart. With the two small screw caps one for the pump and the > > other to add water into the barrel. The barrel is kept in the > > laundry room and use it is covered like I said with the caps. And > > like I said I bought it from Wal-Mart. And it is plastic. > > > > Now for another question. If I do by the python thing and I fill the > > tank with it how do you added water conditioner? Do you add enough > > for the whole tank or just the water you put in? Will it be safe for > > the fish to have 14 gallons or so of untreated water to start with? > > > > I remember you saying you hated buckets so I'm assuming you fill > > then add the water treatment stuff right? Well again how much to you > > add enough for total tank volume or just for the added water? > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>, "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" > > <GoldLenny@> wrote: > > > > > > More than likely, the barrel is not the issue but nothing wrong > > > with checking it out. > > > > > > Plastic or metal barrel? I'm not sure if it matters but it could, > > > especially since there are various grades of barrels depending on > > > their intended use. > > > > > > Did you buy this barrel or get it somewhere for free... and let us > > > know where? > > > > > > Running an airstone would help if you were having issues with your > > tap water > > > having a high CO2 or other dissolved gas issue but I haven't seen > > this as an > > > issue with any of your tap water test results so I do NOT think > > running an > > > airstone is necessary. > > > > > > Where is this barrel kept? Is it covered to prevent contamination > > > if any contamination is possible? > > > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the > > > right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by > > > Year, > > Month) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On > > > Behalf Of fishdudeut > > > Sent: Tuesday, September 08, 2009 10:40 PM > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Tap Water Base Line. > > > > > > The barrel is about a month old and nothing been it it but water. > > Will this > > > still be using for the water changes when the tank is cycled? Or > > will this > > > pretty much be a no go? Would running an AIR stone in the barrel > > make any > > > kid of difference? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>, "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" > > <GoldLenny@> > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > Since you have some ammonia in your tap water, probably from the > > > > chloramine and then when you use your dechlor, it leaves a > > > > little residual ammonia, then while this water is sitting in > > > > your 55G drum, you obviously have some nitrifying bacteria > > > > living on the walls of > > the > > > > drum and they convert the ammonia to nitrite and then to nitrate > > while the > > > water is sitting there. > > > > The 5G bucket, which hasn't been sitting around long term, does > > > > not have nitrifying bacteria growing on it's walls. > > > > > > > > This is also why so many folks have nitrates in their tap > > > > water.. due to nitrification of ammonia (from the chloramine) > > > > while it's still in the city pipes or underground springs, if a well. > > > > > > > > Is this a plastic or metal drum? What was it used for before? > > > > > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> (Links to any articles > > > > referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, > > alphabetically > > > > under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) > > > > > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] > > > > On Behalf Of fishdudeut > > > > Sent: Tuesday, September 08, 2009 4:44 PM > > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > Subject: [AquaticLife] Tap Water Base Line. > > > > > > > > Hello. I decided to do a new base line on my water (my tank is > > cycling > > > > as we > > > > speak) > > > > > > > > I tested for everything the 2nd time around and > > > > > > > > My finish test day was this > > > > > > > > Ammonia .25 > > > > Nitrite .25 > > > > Nitrate 5.0 > > > > > > > > The other 2 days they were 0.00 all but Ammonia and that was .25 > > > > > > > > I have one of those 55 gallon water drums and that is where I > > > > was planning on keeping water for water changes. I pumped out > > > > each day to a gallon water jug that has had nothing in it but water. > > > > > > > > I'm wondering if this is normal to read o nitrate and nitrite > > > > for 48 hours and then on the 72 house test they are there? > > > > > > > > I set up 3 gallon in a 5 gallon bucket and the test as of today > > > > are > > > > > > > > Ammonia .25 > > > > Nitrate 0 > > > > Nitrite 0 > > > > > > > > Guess I just need to see if the barrel is causing any problems. > > > > > > > > ------------------------------------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the home page. Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com to receive the digest, which includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com for the No E-Mail option where you will still be able to read messages on the group and post replies. Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com to receive individual e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 43237	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 9/9/2009
Subject: Re: Dear Moderator(s)

OK... I definitely got everything wrong about your Yahoo ID and name. 2 points for the PC crowd about being prejudiced (that is pre-judging someone or something, not the often misused term racism)... but I'll still throw PC crowd out the window and rely on my human intuition when push comes to shove. Why wouldn't sending you to WalMart help if you were in the UK... are you saying WalMart hasn't taken over there yet? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wal-Mart "...Walmart operates in Mexico as Walmex, in the United Kingdom as Asda, and in Japan as Seiyu. It has wholly-owned operations in Argentina, Brazil, Canada, and Puerto Rico. Wal-Mart's investments outside North America have had mixed results: its operations in South America and China are highly successful, while it was forced to pull out of Germany and South Korea when ventures there were unsuccessful..." They just go by a different name in the UK with 346 Asda stores and many of them converting to Asda Walmart Supercenters... http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Asda You know the old saying, "If you can't beat them, buy them out!"... OK, it's not an old saying; I just made it up. LOL But that's how Wal-Mart became the 2nd largest retailer in the UK and they've only just begun to fight! "...Asda Walmart Supercentres Following the takeover by Walmart, several "Asda Walmart Supercentres" have been opened, creating some of the largest hypermarkets in the United Kingdom. The first Supercentre opened in Livingston, Scotland in June 2000. The Milton Keynes store is currently the largest Asda Walmart Supercentre. There are currently 25 Supercentres in the UK. It is also planned for a Walmart Supercentre in Dundee, Scotland..." I know I am glad to have a Walmart Supercenter just a half mile from me now. Prior to that, I had to drive almost two miles to the nearest one. ;-) Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of kuradi8 Sent: Wednesday, September 09, 2009 3:12 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Dear Moderator(s) Lenny wrote: \\I noticed you put "(Pennsylvania)" under your signature in one of your recent posts to help overcome any prejudices that might be inferred from your Yahoo ID and name.// Tee hee, no, that's not why I did that. It was in case someone wanted to point me to a source. Sending me to Walmart wouldn't help if I were in the UK, etc. As for Kai, yes that's my name. My heritage is from a country that is "almost" Scandinavian -- so I'm blonde (gray now) haired, blue eyed, fair skinned, etc. kuradi8 is for kuradi eit, which is my standard online "handle." Individually, each word isn't bad but put them together and my mother would stick a bar of soap in my mouth. Unfortunately, there is no way to keep spammers who pretend to be trusted off the list. But more than likely, they are 'bots or folks whose IDs have been hijacked. I guarantee you that if you get spam from my ID, it's not from *ME.* And I'd venture to say that's true of 90-some-odd percent of others who were once trusted. Obviously, *I* am on moderation. It takes a while before my posts show up. That's OK. But I do get impatient. It takes a while for others to see my questions and more time until I see their moderated replies. As I said, it's more "conversational" to be able to ask and answer and ask again with those who happen to have a few minutes to spare. ~Kai --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@...> wrote: > > Usually, folks like myself, \\Steve// and Amber will reply to a bunch > of messages at once, as we are checking our mail, so this may be why > you see our messages all show up in a close time group. I'm hanging > around the office today so I'm replying as I see messages come in > right now. I know \\Steve// and I are not on moderation and I'm > pretty sure Amber is not on moderation any longer either. > > Up until the past six months or so, the group was not using all of the > anti-spammer member security methods to prevent spammers from joining > the group so the mods were having to reject tons of spammer messages > from ever reaching the group. Since implementing all of the > anti-spammer member methods, we are probably blocking over 50% of the > "people" that attempt to join the group since they do not past the > anti-spammer smell test and this has resulted in a HUGE decrease in > spammers trying to send spam to the group but we also have to presume > there are a bunch of "sleepers" who are members who previously joined > when there was limited security, waiting to attack if the group turns off moderation (Sheesh.. sounds like I'm paranoid... lol). > We've also seen people join and post relatively benign > messages/replies and then after being taken off of moderation, they > start their spamming so it's a constant battle for all of the various > Yahoo Group's owners and/or moderators. > > Call me a racist, prejudice or whatever you want to call me... as long > as you don't call me late for dinner... lol... but a LARGE percentage > of the attempts by spammers to join this group (and others that I own > or moderate) are from folks in India so there's always a chance that > your Yahoo ID (which looks Indian, or from that area of the world, to > me.. but then I would be admitting that I'm prejudice, that is > pre-judging someone, and yes we all do it and in the "old days" it was > called intuition and was a good thing before the PC crowd came along) > could have kept you on moderation a little longer than usual. > > I'm sure I'm not the first person to presume or assume this (and yes, > I know what assume means... lol) as I noticed you put "(Pennsylvania)" > under your signature in one of your recent posts to help overcome any > prejudices that might be inferred from your Yahoo ID and name. It's > also why my favorite Governor (Louisiana Governor Bobby Jindal... his > parents immigrated legally from India and since I support and voted > for him, I guess I'm not too much of a prejudiced racist redneck... > lol) changed his name to Bobby as a kid, not withstanding the fact > that his favorite Brady Bunch actor was Bobby Brady. ;-) > > Last but not least, it's OK to be a PITA... just not a member of PeTA. > ;-) I'm a HUGE PITA (or some might say just the "A" part of PITA) when > the need arises. LOL > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles > referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically > under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) > > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] > On Behalf Of kuradi8 > Sent: Wednesday, September 09, 2009 1:27 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Dear Moderator(s) > > May sounds about right. And I tend to ask a boatload of questions, > then disappear for a while until my next tank crisis. I suspect there > are many members like me -- off and on. I admit that I can be a PITA > -- but I'm not a spammer. :o) > > I brought this up only because I noticed that posts appear in clumps > -- even from long time regulars like \\Steve// and Amber. It's too > consistent to be coincidental so I ASSUME (and we all know what > happens when we do that) that a moderator is OK'ing everyone's posts > in batches instead of allowing trusted members to post automatically. > > According to my buddy who moderates another Group, he (as Moderator) > sets the universal setting to "MODERATE ALL" and then manually removes > the moderation from trusted members so that they can post automatically. > > He says that the reverse is also possible -- to "MODERATE NONE" and > only moderate the "problem" ones. But that means spammers can get in > until they're banned. And there seems to be a never-ending supply of > spammers so it's better to "MODERATE ALL" and trust those who are "known good." > > Bottom line: It's YOUR choice. :o) I'm just asking/suggesting > because I think it would make things easier for you/moderator(s) and > more fluid for the rest of us. > > It's OK to say NO to me. :o) > ~Kai > > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" > <GoldLenny@> > wrote: > > > > How long have you been a member? Unless you've changed Yahoo ID's, > > the group's member section shows you since May of this year. I'm > > not sure what the default is for Yahoo Groups, but I'm pretty sure > > that only new members are moderated unless a mod/owner put you on moderation. > > > > I did a search of the Messages section for how long ago you made > > your first post but of course, the search still is not working > > properly (a long known issue with Yahoo Groups that they are > > supposed to have fixed). I've reported this several times via the > > link at the top of the search results page, to no avail. > > > > I did recently send a similar question to the mods/owners about > > taking some frequent posters off of moderation so maybe this post of > > yours will work in your case. > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles > > referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, > > alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > Kai wrote: > > > > Dear Moderator(s) > > > > I see that you need to approve EVERY message that we submit to be posted. > > It's a lot of work for you and the impatient ones among us (me) > > often get a little frustrated at the lack of instant gratification > > because we (I) want a quick reply. I belong to several other Yahoo > > Groups and they are set up so that the regular active members (of > > which we seem to have quite a few) can post automatically. Only > > newcomers and inactive members need to go through moderator approval. > > > > How do you feel about changing this Group to that sort of a system? > > ~Kai > > > > > > PS - You don't have to post this for everyone to see unless you want > > their opinions too. > ------------------------------------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the home page. Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com to receive the digest, which includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com for the No E-Mail option where you will still be able to read messages on the group and post replies. Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com to receive individual e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 43238	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 9/9/2009
Subject: Re: Air Pumps

There is one pump I would like to put back into action, when I can find the space for more tanks, and that is the Supreme Dynamaster. The one I have has two pistons, but there is (was) also a one piston model. Even the one piston model would likely put out way more air than you want. I do not currently use an air pump, and cannot make a recommendation for you. Especially since I have not been really enamored of vibrator pumps since my Silent Giant went out on me, and I was unable to repair it. That is an example of a company that made a product too well, and they went out of business when they could not sell enough pumps to stay in business. It seemed that everyone was using them. \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of kuradi8 Sent: Wednesday, September 09, 2009 2:03 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Air Pumps Thanks for your in depth (tee hee, pun intended) reply, Lenny. How deep is my tank? It's a standard consumer 55g which makes it 21" tall with a water depth of about 17-18". The pump lives in the cabinet below so the air hose must climb appx 43 vertical inches before it loops down to the bottom of the tank. Both the disappointing Tetra-60 and the (future?) Rena 400 are 2-outlet pumps so the other air hose crosses to the other corner of the 48" wide tank before it does the same. After my disappointment with the Tetra-60, I don't think I'd want another Tetra so therefore I am also leaning toward the Rena. But I'm also tempted by a pair of the el-cheapo 8-lpm units I pointed out earlier -- *if* I can get over my skepticism. ("Too good to be true" and "Ya get what ya pay for.") ~Kai > Lenny wrote: > > I would go with Rena over Tetra as a general rule.. although there's always > a chance that Tetra could make quality air pumps. You would have to Google > user reviews and compare warranties to find out for sure. > > Air pumps have more to do with the depth of your tank, rather than the size > of your air stone. (almost sounds like one of them motion in the ocean > sayings.. lol) It takes work to push air under water so a deeper tank needs > a much stronger air pump. It's nothing to do with watts or liters per > minute if the pump can't push the air down to the depths that you might > need. > > How deep is your tank? > > My 65G goldfish tank is only 17" deep (48" x 18" footprint) and I have a > Rena Air 300 that I used on the tank, with a 2' long bubble wand, when I > first set it up and only had one filter system. I quit using it after I > increased my filtration... but it had plenty of power to push the air to > create a huge micro bubble curtain on the back of the glass. I even had to > throttle it back a little if I remember correctly. > > I tested a few air pumps before deciding on the Rena. I like it. It's a > little noisy, as are most air pumps but I found that by sitting it on a > small piece of carpeting, that made it almost as quiet as a mouse and I > figured the carpeting would also help to filter out dust/dirt before it got > to the little filter pad on the bottom of the unit... which should be > cleaned or changed as needed. > > Here's the DFS page on Rena Air Pumps and you can read the Overview and More > Info tabs for better details. > http://www.drsfostersmith.com/product/prod_display.cfm?pcatid=3724 > > Remember to get an anti-siphon valve for your pump if you are going to be > placing the pump below the water line. If you place the pump on a shelf > above the tank, you do not need the anti-siphon valve. Also consider the > heating/cooling benefits of an air pump. If the pump is placed high in a > room, it will be sucking in warmer air than if it's on the floor where it > will be sucking in cooler air. > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right > side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) > > > Kai wrote: > > I've been shopping online, especially on ebay (people bid crazy high over > Labor Day Weekend) and now I have new questions. > > My top contenders at the moment are the Tetra AP300 and the Rena 400. The > AP300 will only tell me that it's 7.5w. All the other specs are well > guarded secrets. > > The Rena 400 is 8w and claims to put out 2x200 liters/hour. BUT... That's > only 3.3 liters/minute and I've seen other "no-name" units for smaller tanks > claiming as much as 8 liters/minute. So I question whether that's the right > spec for me to be looking at. (Kinda like a large car with a small engine > boasting about the number of cup-holders.) > > The Rena 400's online operator's manual shows it runs 4" and 6" air stones. > So what would I need for my dual 24" curtain wands? A Sears automotive shop > compressor??? > > OK, rant over. (And now I hope you understand my confusion.) > > So... How do I pick an air pump? What is the most important spec? > Wattage? Liters per hour/minute? PSI? > > Thanks in advance for your help. :o) > ~Kai > > > > > > On September 9, Kai wrote: > > > > I bought a Whisper-60 for my 55g about a year ago and I'm disappointed > with its output. I had two 24" curtain wands and thought they might have > been too old/clogged so I replaced them with two 4" disks. They are also > wimpy-wimpy-wimpy in their output. One just "sizzles" a little air, the > other "blurps" a big bubble every 10 seconds or so. > > > > I think it's the air pump's fault. It started out weak and seems to have > gotten worse. I would like to replace it with something with a bit more > horsepower. Any recommendations? > > ~Kai > > (Pennsylvania) > > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 43239	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 9/9/2009
Subject: Re: goldfish

Laramoo1, I keep goldfish and have kept them in both ponds and tanks. I can tell you from experience that the number one problem affecting goldfish is water quality, followed by stunting and the health issues related to stunting... with most of these problems being directly related to goldfish being kept in undersized tanks/ponds or too many in a proper sized tank/pond. Answer all of the questions that Kai has posted as well as what kind of goldfish, fancy or long-bodied, etc., and also check out my Goldfish Care article on my blog which will give you some basic care information for long term success with goldfish. http://goldlenny.blogspot.com/2007/03/goldfish-care-sheet-fancy-goldfish.htm l The description you give sounds like Hemorrhagic Septicemia and probably Columnaris and possibly other bacterial infections as well. You will first need to drastically improve his water quality... BUT not by doing a major water change as that can/will cause it's own problems. Start doing daily 25% PWC's (partial water changes, siphoning the poop/detritus out of the gravel and then doing proper filter cleaning (see my blog article "Filter Cleaning and Maintenance). Keeping their water in good condition will help keep them from getting sick in the first place and help them heal up faster if they do get sick... but you will also need to treat your goldfish with a broad spectrum antibiotic. There are several brands/choices available. A common one is Mardel's Maracyn (1 & 2 and Combined) but you will have to check your local stores to see what they have and let us know what they have and we can tell you which medication would be best. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of kuradi8 Sent: Wednesday, September 09, 2009 3:31 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: goldfish Others will probably beat me to this reply but there are questions to be answered first: How big is the fish? How long have you had him? If he's new, is he in "just a bowl" or in a tank with some form of aeration? If he's new and in a tank, did you cycle the water first? How big is that tank? Have you done a recent water change? Approximately what percentage? Is the tank/bowl in direct sunlight for any amount of time during the day? Is it on another heat source like a TV? And whatever else anyone else asks... cos I'm dashing out the door. (Evening shift tonight.) ~Kai --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "laramoo1@..." <laramoo1@...> wrote: > > Hi everyone I am new to this group. I have a question about my gold fish. My goldfish mouth, fins, and head turned red. He did slow down a little and started eating a little less then normal. I don't know what is wrong with him. What can I do for him? >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 43240	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 9/9/2009
Subject: Re: Tap Water Base Line.

Your thoughts about using the barrel are OK. Aging tap water is not the same as dirty water so the aged tap water will still be fresh water compared to the dirty water you would be removing from the tank. You might want to keep the barrel open a little by leaving one of the caps ajar, so that the broken down chlorine compounds can outgas fully... although I would still lean towards using a Python but that is up to you. With only one tank, I could possibly still lean towards buckets but with multiple tanks, buckets get OLD fast. I read through a couple of pages about the 55G plastic drums and this page http://www.yankeecontainers.com/Plastic-Drums.html repeatedly says, "...Our drums are made with High Density Polyethylene. All colors except black are made with FDA approved Food Grade Resin. ..." so as long as it's not a black drum, it appears that the colored drums, especially the blue ones, are food grade so you should be OK. I was worried that they might contain a mildewcide or possibly leach some other compound into the water (like a garden hose does), but the blue ones appear to be stable for storing water. Amber already answered your questions about dosing the dechlor into the tank after you remove the old water and only dose enough dechlor to treat the replacement water and then refill the tank with the Python. That is how I've been doing it for years. Right now, are you using the pump on the barrel to fill buckets and then going back and forth from the barrel to the tank? You might just want to get a long potable water hose and pump the water directly into your tank and save the bucket brigade when refilling the tank. It's going to take the same number of pumps either way. You'll still have to do the bucket brigade for removing the old water and fish poop. Remember you can use this removed water for your plants, gardens and lawn and they will all love you for the fish waste water. If you can't use it all, give it to your neighbors or have them bring their own 5G buckets on tank maintenance day and you won't even have to haul the buckets of dirty water away. ;-) I need to do this with my neighbors who have lots of plants. Right now, I do the work of lugging the bucket to them but I only have one neighbor who only wants 5G a week so the rest of mine is recycled down the drain with the Python. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of fishdudeut Sent: Wednesday, September 09, 2009 4:25 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Tap Water Base Line. Well I did a 72 hour test and the nitrite is up even more. I was thinking about it last night and the whole idea of water changes is about FRESH water. if I leave water in a jug or barrel for a few weeks (like with the 55 it would be a month's worth of PCW) and do the water changes from there it's really not fresh water. So I'll be looking into a python or something of the likes. Now to answer your question. The barrel is one of the blue ones from Wal-Mart. With the two small screw caps one for the pump and the other to add water into the barrel. The barrel is kept in the laundry room and use it is covered like I said with the caps. And like I said I bought it from Wal-Mart. And it is plastic. Now for another question. If I do by the python thing and I fill the tank with it how do you added water conditioner? Do you add enough for the whole tank or just the water you put in? Will it be safe for the fish to have 14 gallons or so of untreated water to start with? I remember you saying you hated buckets so I'm assuming you fill then add the water treatment stuff right? Well again how much to you add enough for total tank volume or just for the added water? --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@...> wrote: > > More than likely, the barrel is not the issue but nothing wrong with > checking it out. > > Plastic or metal barrel? I'm not sure if it matters but it could, > especially since there are various grades of barrels depending on > their intended use. > > Did you buy this barrel or get it somewhere for free... and let us > know where? > > Running an airstone would help if you were having issues with your tap > water having a high CO2 or other dissolved gas issue but I haven't > seen this as an issue with any of your tap water test results so I do > NOT think running an airstone is necessary. > > Where is this barrel kept? Is it covered to prevent contamination if > any contamination is possible? > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles > referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically > under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) > > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] > On Behalf Of fishdudeut > Sent: Tuesday, September 08, 2009 10:40 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Tap Water Base Line. > > The barrel is about a month old and nothing been it it but water. Will > this still be using for the water changes when the tank is cycled? Or > will this pretty much be a no go? Would running an AIR stone in the > barrel make any kid of difference? > > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" > <GoldLenny@> > wrote: > > > > Since you have some ammonia in your tap water, probably from the > > chloramine and then when you use your dechlor, it leaves a little > > residual ammonia, then while this water is sitting in your 55G drum, > > you obviously have some nitrifying bacteria living on the walls of > > the drum and they convert the ammonia to nitrite and then to nitrate > > while the > water is sitting there. > > The 5G bucket, which hasn't been sitting around long term, does not > > have nitrifying bacteria growing on it's walls. > > > > This is also why so many folks have nitrates in their tap water.. > > due to nitrification of ammonia (from the chloramine) while it's > > still in the city pipes or underground springs, if a well. > > > > Is this a plastic or metal drum? What was it used for before? > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles > > referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, > > alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] > > On Behalf Of fishdudeut > > Sent: Tuesday, September 08, 2009 4:44 PM > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > Subject: [AquaticLife] Tap Water Base Line. > > > > Hello. I decided to do a new base line on my water (my tank is > > cycling as we > > speak) > > > > I tested for everything the 2nd time around and > > > > My finish test day was this > > > > Ammonia .25 > > Nitrite .25 > > Nitrate 5.0 > > > > The other 2 days they were 0.00 all but Ammonia and that was .25 > > > > I have one of those 55 gallon water drums and that is where I was > > planning on keeping water for water changes. I pumped out each day > > to a gallon water jug that has had nothing in it but water. > > > > I'm wondering if this is normal to read o nitrate and nitrite for 48 > > hours and then on the 72 house test they are there? > > > > I set up 3 gallon in a 5 gallon bucket and the test as of today are > > > > Ammonia .25 > > Nitrate 0 > > Nitrite 0 > > > > Guess I just need to see if the barrel is causing any problems.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 43241	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 9/9/2009
Subject: Re: Snail issues

I know they have the air bladder in their shell that they fill up as part of their buoyancy control. This is also what allows them to fill it up and float around the surface of the tank, sometimes for days or even a couple of weeks at a time.. and probably how they travel across large bodies of water using wind and currents.. instead of moving along at a snail's pace (pun intended..lol). All that said, I'm not sure why yours are having issues with this air bladder. You know where I'd go for the bestest information about our snails.... http://AppleSnail.net Let us know here, what they say over there or give us a link to your thread. You could always set up a container for them with only a couple of inches of water so they are completely submerged and maybe have an island or ramp for them to crawl up on if they want less water so they can stick their snorkel out of the water. They do have gills so they should be OK even without breathing at the surface, just like labyrinth fish can survive on gill function only but I think they just find it easier to take big breaths at the surface... especially the snails when filling their air bladder. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Amber Berglund Sent: Wednesday, September 09, 2009 5:16 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Snail issues I have one or two rather large and older mystery snails who appear to be having some sort of issue that I have not heard of yet. They are suddenly VERY heavy, and look like a poor turtle when they end up upside down and can't tip themselves back over onto their foot instead of their "backs". Is this just normal for older mystery snails? Is there something I should do for the snail? I tried setting it up on top of the floating plants but it's much heavier than the rest of my snails and it won't sit there without sinking. I put the snail with the most issues on a water covered part of the floating driftwood so that it can get air if it needs to (most of my snails go to the surface for air, guess they don't get enough in the water column from the plants). Amber

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 43242	From: kuradi8	Date: 9/9/2009
Subject: Re: Air Pumps

http://www.epinions.com/content_1788452996 says that piston pumps surge, stop, surge, stop, etc -- and the fish don't like it. It tells to build a pressure tank to prevent that but it doesn't sound like anything I'd want to do. I bid on but lost a Rena 400 on ebay tonight so my budget must grow while my search goes on. Sigh. ~Kai --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Steve Szabo" <steve@...> wrote: > > There is one pump I would like to put back into action, when I can find > the space for more tanks, and that is the Supreme Dynamaster. The one I > have has two pistons, but there is (was) also a one piston model. Even > the one piston model would likely put out way more air than you want. I > do not currently use an air pump, and cannot make a recommendation for > you. Especially since I have not been really enamored of vibrator pumps > since my Silent Giant went out on me, and I was unable to repair it. > That is an example of a company that made a product too well, and they > went out of business when they could not sell enough pumps to stay in > business. It seemed that everyone was using them. > > \\Steve// > > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] > On Behalf Of kuradi8 > Sent: Wednesday, September 09, 2009 2:03 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Air Pumps > > Thanks for your in depth (tee hee, pun intended) reply, Lenny. > > How deep is my tank? It's a standard consumer 55g which makes it 21" > tall with a water depth of about 17-18". > > The pump lives in the cabinet below so the air hose must climb appx 43 > vertical inches before it loops down to the bottom of the tank. Both > the disappointing Tetra-60 and the (future?) Rena 400 are 2-outlet pumps > so the other air hose crosses to the other corner of the 48" wide tank > before it does the same. > > After my disappointment with the Tetra-60, I don't think I'd want > another Tetra so therefore I am also leaning toward the Rena. But I'm > also tempted by a pair of the el-cheapo 8-lpm units I pointed out > earlier -- *if* I can get over my skepticism. ("Too good to be true" > and "Ya get what ya pay for.") > ~Kai > > > > > > Lenny wrote: > > > > I would go with Rena over Tetra as a general rule.. although there's > always > > a chance that Tetra could make quality air pumps. You would have to > Google > > user reviews and compare warranties to find out for sure. > > > > Air pumps have more to do with the depth of your tank, rather than the > size > > of your air stone. (almost sounds like one of them motion in the > ocean > > sayings.. lol) It takes work to push air under water so a deeper tank > needs > > a much stronger air pump. It's nothing to do with watts or liters per > > minute if the pump can't push the air down to the depths that you > might > > need. > > > > How deep is your tank? > > > > My 65G goldfish tank is only 17" deep (48" x 18" footprint) and I have > a > > Rena Air 300 that I used on the tank, with a 2' long bubble wand, when > I > > first set it up and only had one filter system. I quit using it after > I > > increased my filtration... but it had plenty of power to push the air > to > > create a huge micro bubble curtain on the back of the glass. I even > had to > > throttle it back a little if I remember correctly. > > > > I tested a few air pumps before deciding on the Rena. I like it. It's > a > > little noisy, as are most air pumps but I found that by sitting it on > a > > small piece of carpeting, that made it almost as quiet as a mouse and > I > > figured the carpeting would also help to filter out dust/dirt before > it got > > to the little filter pad on the bottom of the unit... which should be > > cleaned or changed as needed. > > > > Here's the DFS page on Rena Air Pumps and you can read the Overview > and More > > Info tabs for better details. > > http://www.drsfostersmith.com/product/prod_display.cfm?pcatid=3724 > > > > Remember to get an anti-siphon valve for your pump if you are going to > be > > placing the pump below the water line. If you place the pump on a > shelf > > above the tank, you do not need the anti-siphon valve. Also consider > the > > heating/cooling benefits of an air pump. If the pump is placed high > in a > > room, it will be sucking in warmer air than if it's on the floor where > it > > will be sucking in cooler air. > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > > (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the > right > > side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, > Month) > > > > > > > > Kai wrote: > > > > I've been shopping online, especially on ebay (people bid crazy high > over > > Labor Day Weekend) and now I have new questions. > > > > My top contenders at the moment are the Tetra AP300 and the Rena 400. > The > > AP300 will only tell me that it's 7.5w. All the other specs are well > > guarded secrets. > > > > The Rena 400 is 8w and claims to put out 2x200 liters/hour. BUT... > That's > > only 3.3 liters/minute and I've seen other "no-name" units for smaller > tanks > > claiming as much as 8 liters/minute. So I question whether that's the > right > > spec for me to be looking at. (Kinda like a large car with a small > engine > > boasting about the number of cup-holders.) > > > > The Rena 400's online operator's manual shows it runs 4" and 6" air > stones. > > So what would I need for my dual 24" curtain wands? A Sears > automotive shop > > compressor??? > > > > OK, rant over. (And now I hope you understand my confusion.) > > > > So... How do I pick an air pump? What is the most important spec? > > Wattage? Liters per hour/minute? PSI? > > > > Thanks in advance for your help. :o) > > ~Kai > > > > > > > > > > > On September 9, Kai wrote: > > > > > > I bought a Whisper-60 for my 55g about a year ago and I'm > disappointed > > with its output. I had two 24" curtain wands and thought they might > have > > been too old/clogged so I replaced them with two 4" disks. They are > also > > wimpy-wimpy-wimpy in their output. One just "sizzles" a little air, > the > > other "blurps" a big bubble every 10 seconds or so. > > > > > > I think it's the air pump's fault. It started out weak and seems to > have > > gotten worse. I would like to replace it with something with a bit > more > > horsepower. Any recommendations? > > > ~Kai > > > (Pennsylvania) > > > > > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 43243	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 9/9/2009
Subject: Re: Air Pumps

How much did it sell for? I see prices in the low-to-mid-$40's on Google Shopping and mid-$40's on Yahoo Shopping. That DrsFosterSmith.com link I gave further down in this thread had their regular price at $62.99. That's a nice ePinion that you found. Most of them are pretty crappy but it's obvious that author knew what they were talking about. I think the 2-piston model \\Steve// mentioned would solve the pulsing air flow that the 1-piston model might create. These types of pumps are designed for use on fish rooms with dozens of tanks and using the air to power sponge or UGF filtration, not for the single tank and air stone usage you are looking for. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of kuradi8 Sent: Wednesday, September 09, 2009 10:21 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Air Pumps http://www.epinions.com/content_1788452996 says that piston pumps surge, stop, surge, stop, etc -- and the fish don't like it. It tells to build a pressure tank to prevent that but it doesn't sound like anything I'd want to do. I bid on but lost a Rena 400 on ebay tonight so my budget must grow while my search goes on. Sigh. ~Kai --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Steve Szabo" <steve@...> wrote: > > There is one pump I would like to put back into action, when I can > find the space for more tanks, and that is the Supreme Dynamaster. The > one I have has two pistons, but there is (was) also a one piston > model. Even the one piston model would likely put out way more air > than you want. I do not currently use an air pump, and cannot make a > recommendation for you. Especially since I have not been really > enamored of vibrator pumps since my Silent Giant went out on me, and I was unable to repair it. > That is an example of a company that made a product too well, and they > went out of business when they could not sell enough pumps to stay in > business. It seemed that everyone was using them. > > \\Steve// > > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] > On Behalf Of kuradi8 > Sent: Wednesday, September 09, 2009 2:03 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Air Pumps > > Thanks for your in depth (tee hee, pun intended) reply, Lenny. > > How deep is my tank? It's a standard consumer 55g which makes it 21" > tall with a water depth of about 17-18". > > The pump lives in the cabinet below so the air hose must climb appx 43 > vertical inches before it loops down to the bottom of the tank. Both > the disappointing Tetra-60 and the (future?) Rena 400 are 2-outlet > pumps so the other air hose crosses to the other corner of the 48" > wide tank before it does the same. > > After my disappointment with the Tetra-60, I don't think I'd want > another Tetra so therefore I am also leaning toward the Rena. But I'm > also tempted by a pair of the el-cheapo 8-lpm units I pointed out > earlier -- *if* I can get over my skepticism. ("Too good to be true" > and "Ya get what ya pay for.") > ~Kai > > > > > > Lenny wrote: > > > > I would go with Rena over Tetra as a general rule.. although there's > always > > a chance that Tetra could make quality air pumps. You would have to > Google > > user reviews and compare warranties to find out for sure. > > > > Air pumps have more to do with the depth of your tank, rather than > > the > size > > of your air stone. (almost sounds like one of them motion in the > ocean > > sayings.. lol) It takes work to push air under water so a deeper > > tank > needs > > a much stronger air pump. It's nothing to do with watts or liters > > per minute if the pump can't push the air down to the depths that > > you > might > > need. > > > > How deep is your tank? > > > > My 65G goldfish tank is only 17" deep (48" x 18" footprint) and I > > have > a > > Rena Air 300 that I used on the tank, with a 2' long bubble wand, > > when > I > > first set it up and only had one filter system. I quit using it > > after > I > > increased my filtration... but it had plenty of power to push the > > air > to > > create a huge micro bubble curtain on the back of the glass. I even > had to > > throttle it back a little if I remember correctly. > > > > I tested a few air pumps before deciding on the Rena. I like it. > > It's > a > > little noisy, as are most air pumps but I found that by sitting it > > on > a > > small piece of carpeting, that made it almost as quiet as a mouse > > and > I > > figured the carpeting would also help to filter out dust/dirt before > it got > > to the little filter pad on the bottom of the unit... which should > > be cleaned or changed as needed. > > > > Here's the DFS page on Rena Air Pumps and you can read the Overview > and More > > Info tabs for better details. > > http://www.drsfostersmith.com/product/prod_display.cfm?pcatid=3724 > > > > Remember to get an anti-siphon valve for your pump if you are going > > to > be > > placing the pump below the water line. If you place the pump on a > shelf > > above the tank, you do not need the anti-siphon valve. Also > > consider > the > > heating/cooling benefits of an air pump. If the pump is placed high > in a > > room, it will be sucking in warmer air than if it's on the floor > > where > it > > will be sucking in cooler air. > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles > > referenced in above reply are listed on the > right > > side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, > Month) > > > > > > > > Kai wrote: > > > > I've been shopping online, especially on ebay (people bid crazy high > over > > Labor Day Weekend) and now I have new questions. > > > > My top contenders at the moment are the Tetra AP300 and the Rena 400. > The > > AP300 will only tell me that it's 7.5w. All the other specs are > > well guarded secrets. > > > > The Rena 400 is 8w and claims to put out 2x200 liters/hour. BUT... > That's > > only 3.3 liters/minute and I've seen other "no-name" units for > > smaller > tanks > > claiming as much as 8 liters/minute. So I question whether that's > > the > right > > spec for me to be looking at. (Kinda like a large car with a small > engine > > boasting about the number of cup-holders.) > > > > The Rena 400's online operator's manual shows it runs 4" and 6" air > stones. > > So what would I need for my dual 24" curtain wands? A Sears > automotive shop > > compressor??? > > > > OK, rant over. (And now I hope you understand my confusion.) > > > > So... How do I pick an air pump? What is the most important spec? > > Wattage? Liters per hour/minute? PSI? > > > > Thanks in advance for your help. :o) ~Kai > > > > > > > > > > > On September 9, Kai wrote: > > > > > > I bought a Whisper-60 for my 55g about a year ago and I'm > disappointed > > with its output. I had two 24" curtain wands and thought they might > have > > been too old/clogged so I replaced them with two 4" disks. They are > also > > wimpy-wimpy-wimpy in their output. One just "sizzles" a little air, > the > > other "blurps" a big bubble every 10 seconds or so. > > > > > > I think it's the air pump's fault. It started out weak and seems > > > to > have > > gotten worse. I would like to replace it with something with a bit > more > > horsepower. Any recommendations? > > > ~Kai > > > (Pennsylvania)

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 43244	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 9/9/2009
Subject: Re: Air Pumps

I cannot say that I ever noticed such surging as your quote has. Perhaps this may be a single piston pump he is talking about. \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of kuradi8 Sent: Wednesday, September 09, 2009 11:21 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Air Pumps http://www.epinions.com/content_1788452996 says that piston pumps surge, stop, surge, stop, etc -- and the fish don't like it. It tells to build a pressure tank to prevent that but it doesn't sound like anything I'd want to do. I bid on but lost a Rena 400 on ebay tonight so my budget must grow while my search goes on. Sigh. ~Kai --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Steve Szabo" <steve@...> wrote: > > There is one pump I would like to put back into action, when I can find > the space for more tanks, and that is the Supreme Dynamaster. The one I > have has two pistons, but there is (was) also a one piston model. Even > the one piston model would likely put out way more air than you want. I > do not currently use an air pump, and cannot make a recommendation for > you. Especially since I have not been really enamored of vibrator pumps > since my Silent Giant went out on me, and I was unable to repair it. > That is an example of a company that made a product too well, and they > went out of business when they could not sell enough pumps to stay in > business. It seemed that everyone was using them. > > \\Steve// > > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] > On Behalf Of kuradi8 > Sent: Wednesday, September 09, 2009 2:03 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Air Pumps > > Thanks for your in depth (tee hee, pun intended) reply, Lenny. > > How deep is my tank? It's a standard consumer 55g which makes it 21" > tall with a water depth of about 17-18". > > The pump lives in the cabinet below so the air hose must climb appx 43 > vertical inches before it loops down to the bottom of the tank. Both > the disappointing Tetra-60 and the (future?) Rena 400 are 2-outlet pumps > so the other air hose crosses to the other corner of the 48" wide tank > before it does the same. > > After my disappointment with the Tetra-60, I don't think I'd want > another Tetra so therefore I am also leaning toward the Rena. But I'm > also tempted by a pair of the el-cheapo 8-lpm units I pointed out > earlier -- *if* I can get over my skepticism. ("Too good to be true" > and "Ya get what ya pay for.") > ~Kai > > > > > > Lenny wrote: > > > > I would go with Rena over Tetra as a general rule.. although there's > always > > a chance that Tetra could make quality air pumps. You would have to > Google > > user reviews and compare warranties to find out for sure. > > > > Air pumps have more to do with the depth of your tank, rather than the > size > > of your air stone. (almost sounds like one of them motion in the > ocean > > sayings.. lol) It takes work to push air under water so a deeper tank > needs > > a much stronger air pump. It's nothing to do with watts or liters per > > minute if the pump can't push the air down to the depths that you > might > > need. > > > > How deep is your tank? > > > > My 65G goldfish tank is only 17" deep (48" x 18" footprint) and I have > a > > Rena Air 300 that I used on the tank, with a 2' long bubble wand, when > I > > first set it up and only had one filter system. I quit using it after > I > > increased my filtration... but it had plenty of power to push the air > to > > create a huge micro bubble curtain on the back of the glass. I even > had to > > throttle it back a little if I remember correctly. > > > > I tested a few air pumps before deciding on the Rena. I like it. It's > a > > little noisy, as are most air pumps but I found that by sitting it on > a > > small piece of carpeting, that made it almost as quiet as a mouse and > I > > figured the carpeting would also help to filter out dust/dirt before > it got > > to the little filter pad on the bottom of the unit... which should be > > cleaned or changed as needed. > > > > Here's the DFS page on Rena Air Pumps and you can read the Overview > and More > > Info tabs for better details. > > http://www.drsfostersmith.com/product/prod_display.cfm?pcatid=3724 > > > > Remember to get an anti-siphon valve for your pump if you are going to > be > > placing the pump below the water line. If you place the pump on a > shelf > > above the tank, you do not need the anti-siphon valve. Also consider > the > > heating/cooling benefits of an air pump. If the pump is placed high > in a > > room, it will be sucking in warmer air than if it's on the floor where > it > > will be sucking in cooler air. > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > > (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the > right > > side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, > Month) > > > > > > > > Kai wrote: > > > > I've been shopping online, especially on ebay (people bid crazy high > over > > Labor Day Weekend) and now I have new questions. > > > > My top contenders at the moment are the Tetra AP300 and the Rena 400. > The > > AP300 will only tell me that it's 7.5w. All the other specs are well > > guarded secrets. > > > > The Rena 400 is 8w and claims to put out 2x200 liters/hour. BUT... > That's > > only 3.3 liters/minute and I've seen other "no-name" units for smaller > tanks > > claiming as much as 8 liters/minute. So I question whether that's the > right > > spec for me to be looking at. (Kinda like a large car with a small > engine > > boasting about the number of cup-holders.) > > > > The Rena 400's online operator's manual shows it runs 4" and 6" air > stones. > > So what would I need for my dual 24" curtain wands? A Sears > automotive shop > > compressor??? > > > > OK, rant over. (And now I hope you understand my confusion.) > > > > So... How do I pick an air pump? What is the most important spec? > > Wattage? Liters per hour/minute? PSI? > > > > Thanks in advance for your help. :o) > > ~Kai > > > > > > > > > > > On September 9, Kai wrote: > > > > > > I bought a Whisper-60 for my 55g about a year ago and I'm > disappointed > > with its output. I had two 24" curtain wands and thought they might > have > > been too old/clogged so I replaced them with two 4" disks. They are > also > > wimpy-wimpy-wimpy in their output. One just "sizzles" a little air, > the > > other "blurps" a big bubble every 10 seconds or so. > > > > > > I think it's the air pump's fault. It started out weak and seems to > have > > gotten worse. I would like to replace it with something with a bit > more > > horsepower. Any recommendations? > > > ~Kai > > > (Pennsylvania) > > > > > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 43245	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 9/9/2009
Subject: Re: Snail issues

Ahh, with some searching this evening I think I figured out what is wrong. It is a possible collapsed lung or water filled lung, I'm not sure if he/she will recover from it on their own or not. I removed it from the tank like suggested on the forums FAQ and it found it's way back into the water, so I let it stay there. I will try putting it in a bowl instead. Amber Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > > > I know they have the air bladder in their shell that they fill up as > part of > their buoyancy control. This is also what allows them to fill it up and > float around the surface of the tank, sometimes for days or even a > couple of > weeks at a time.. and probably how they travel across large bodies of > water > using wind and currents.. instead of moving along at a snail's pace (pun > intended..lol). > > All that said, I'm not sure why yours are having issues with this air > bladder. You know where I'd go for the bestest information about our > snails.... http://AppleSnail.net <http://AppleSnail.net> Let us know > here, what they say over there > or give us a link to your thread. > > You could always set up a container for them with only a couple of > inches of > water so they are completely submerged and maybe have an island or > ramp for > them to crawl up on if they want less water so they can stick their > snorkel > out of the water. They do have gills so they should be OK even without > breathing at the surface, just like labyrinth fish can survive on gill > function only but I think they just find it easier to take big breaths at > the surface... especially the snails when filling their air bladder. > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right > side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On > Behalf Of Amber Berglund > Sent: Wednesday, September 09, 2009 5:16 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Subject: [AquaticLife] Snail issues > > I have one or two rather large and older mystery snails who appear to be > having some sort of issue that I have not heard of yet. > They are suddenly VERY heavy, and look like a poor turtle when they end up > upside down and can't tip themselves back over onto their foot instead of > their "backs". > Is this just normal for older mystery snails? Is there something I > should do > for the snail? I tried setting it up on top of the floating plants but > it's > much heavier than the rest of my snails and it won't sit there without > sinking. > I put the snail with the most issues on a water covered part of the > floating > driftwood so that it can get air if it needs to (most of my snails go > to the > surface for air, guess they don't get enough in the water column from the > plants). > > Amber > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 43246	From: Jpateson@aol.com	Date: 9/10/2009
Subject: Re: Alge on glass problem...

Lenny, Thanks, I'll pick one up this weekend, HF is about 20 minutes "down the road"............ Jim In a message dated 9/9/2009 12:12:05 P.M. Central Daylight Time, GoldLenny@... writes: Jim, Since you are leaning towards the razor blade, if you have a Harbor Freight store in your area, they often have these on sale cheap, especially if you are signed up for Harbor Freight's couple email where they send out dozens of coupons for stuff at about 1/2 off their regular prices. They are both about a foot long so you would still have to get your hands wet but This one uses a longer and stronger blade than a razor blade and covers more real estate a lot faster than a regular sized blade. _http://www.harborfrhttp://wwwhttp://wwhttp://www.hhttp://www.harbhttp:_ (http://www.harborfreight.com/cpi/ctaf/displayitem.taf?Itemnumber=98381) This one uses the regular single edged razor blades. _http://www.harborfrhttp://wwwhttp://wwhttp://www.hhttp://www.harbhttp:_ (http://www.harborfreight.com/cpi/ctaf/displayitem.taf?Itemnumber=94036) I use the top one around my house for scraping the tape off of windows after each hurricane (or season if it's a busy one). I use a plastic scraper on my 65G goldfish tank since it's an acrylic tank. I keep hoping my little Clown Pleco will start to do the job better but I think the 65G is just too much real estate for him and he's not getting as big as I thought he would get. Maybe I got a runt. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - _http://GoldLenny.http://Gohtt_ (http://goldlenny.blogspot.com/) (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: _AquaticLife@AquaticLife@Aqu_ (mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com) [mailto:_AquaticLife@AquaticLife@Aqu_ (mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com) ] On Behalf Of _Jpateson@..._ (mailto:Jpateson@...) Sent: Wednesday, September 09, 2009 8:21 AM To: _AquaticLife@AquaticLife@Aqu_ (mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com) Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: Alge on glass problem... Kai, I have a pleco, but, the algae is spotty on the glass and hard to scrape off, the plastic scraper is like a credit card and it takes 3 to 4 passes to get off, which is why I want to go to the razor blade. Tinting is not an option as the tank is in the living room and I don't think my wife would go for it. I also have one of those tank scrubbers, it does no good....... Jim In a message dated 9/9/2009 8:08:23 A.M. Central Daylight Time, _kuradi8@..._ (mailto:kuradi8@...) writes: How about an algae eater or pl*co? This is more for floating algae, but how about more aeration? If your tank is getting too much light, how about some automotive window tinting? (The smaller the number%, the darker the tint.) And this is a dangerous way to infect your fish but how about hand scraping using an old credit card? Wash your hand and arm well beforehand and be sure to rinse thoroughly to remove any soap residue, etc. If compatible, I still vote for an algae eater or pl*co. ~Kai --- In _AquaticLife@--- In _Aqua--- In _AquaticLi_AquaticLife@AquaticLife@Aqu_ (mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com) ) , "jimpat101" <Jpateson@..J> wrote: > > > What to you use to remove the algae from the glass? I bought a plastic scraper for the LFS,that will take months to remove the algae with... > Any ideas? > > Thanks, > > Jim > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 43247	From: Jpateson@aol.com	Date: 9/10/2009
Subject: Re: Alge on glass problem...

Yes, I do worry about that and will take it slow... In a message dated 9/9/2009 7:21:20 P.M. Central Daylight Time, djransome@... writes: Even with glass you can scratch with a razor blade, be careful. _____ From: _AquaticLife@AquaticLife@Aqu_ (mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com) [mailto:_AquaticLife@AquaticLife@Aqu_ (mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com) ] On Behalf Of _Jpateson@..._ (mailto:Jpateson@...) Sent: Wednesday, September 09, 2009 9:21 AM To: _AquaticLife@AquaticLife@Aqu_ (mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com) Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: Alge on glass problem... Kai, I have a pleco, but, the algae is spotty on the glass and hard to scrape off, the plastic scraper is like a credit card and it takes 3 to 4 passes to get off, which is why I want to go to the razor blade. Tinting is not an option as the tank is in the living room and I don't think my wife would go for it. I also have one of those tank scrubbers, it does no good....... Jim In a message dated 9/9/2009 8:08:23 A.M. Central Daylight Time, kuradi8@yahoo. <mailto:kuradi8%mailto:kura> com writes: How about an algae eater or pl*co? This is more for floating algae, but how about more aeration? If your tank is getting too much light, how about some automotive window tinting? (The smaller the number%, the darker the tint.) And this is a dangerous way to infect your fish but how about hand scraping using an old credit card? Wash your hand and arm well beforehand and be sure to rinse thoroughly to remove any soap residue, etc. If compatible, I still vote for an algae eater or pl*co. ~Kai --- In _AquaticLife@--- In _Aqua--- In _AquaticLife@<WBR>Aqu- <mailto:AquaticLifemailto:AquaticLmai> yahoogroups. ya "jimpat101" <Jpateson@..J> wrote: > > > What to you use to remove the algae from the glass? I bought a plastic scraper for the LFS,that will take months to remove the algae with... > Any ideas? > > Thanks, > > Jim > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 43248	From: Jpateson@aol.com	Date: 9/10/2009
Subject: Re: Algae problem......

That's what I have, and I'll take your advice.... Jim In a message dated 9/9/2009 7:17:23 P.M. Central Daylight Time, djransome@... writes: Sounds like you have green spot algae. A credit card works well, but you have to go over it several times. It helps if you scrape the algae every week with water change so the “hard” stuff can’t get a head start. _____ From: _AquaticLife@AquaticLife@Aqu_ (mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com) [mailto:_AquaticLife@AquaticLife@Aqu_ (mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com) ] On Behalf Of jimpat101 Sent: Wednesday, September 09, 2009 8:57 AM To: _AquaticLife@AquaticLife@Aqu_ (mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com) Subject: [AquaticLife] Algae problem.....S Thanks for all the advice.. The tank is FW, 72 gal. I change 20% a week and clean the filter once a month. I going with the razor blade as the plastic scraper just takes to long to get tha algae off.. The tank gets some indirect sun most of the day.. Jim [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 43249	From: sevenspringss	Date: 9/10/2009
Subject: Re: Dear Moderator(s)

Hello Kai, In your interests of wanting to see us change the moderated status of the membership, I'm sure you wouldn't mind more input. I regret that I was unavailable yesterday to participate in these discussions, but I've previewed your status in the meantime. I trust you can understand our preference for keeping the moderations in place, and our reasons for doing so as Lenny and other have outlined. With going over your status, it wouldn't appear to me that even if we were to have "regular active members" post automatically, it wouldn't seem that you'd be included. You've only been a member for four months -- since May 9, 2009 -- and while this rather short period as a member may not necessarily preclude one from being considered one of the "regulars," your brief posting has not given us the opportunity to get to comfortably know your motives or ways. You have not given us the opportunity to get to know you. I understand your assurances that you wouldn't be a spammer, but we would have to feel the same way about anyone with such a short posting history, whether they were seeking information or giving advice in their messages; I notice you were mainly giving advice -- which was appreciated. With your first post (#43093 -- 11:14 AM 5/9/09), having the Subject title of "Antibiotics," I see you did introduce yourself (using your other User Name -- Kuradi Eit) then went on to give advice. You were quite active for the first week or so after that, but as the month went by your posts became fewer, appearing about once every 4 or 5 days or so until you stopped abruptly on May 27th with your message # 40518. You hadn't even stayed one full month as there is no sign of you through at least June 9th. You haven't posted all August (I hadn't bothered to look for your posts the rest of June or July, but I can't say I recall hearing from you). You're next message (#40518) was only last Friday on September 4th; where have you been? I'm not knocking your infrequent posts, but I'm sure you can see that we could hardly call you a regular. In fact, to ask us to release your moderation would appear to me as being rather bold, almost to the point of being audacious in view of your just getting to be known here. I think you are asking too much in light of your past brief history. My purpose is not to berate you however, but only to point out to you how anyone not yet very familiar to us would not yet be considered a regular, which you may not have realized from your point of view. You certainly had the right to ask, even though it may have been quite presumptuous. In any case, because of other problems we've had in the past (and with the same ongoing problems) with prospective spammers who we constantly have to deal with, we find it best to keep the moderatind process in place. We don't mind the extra work, as that's part of why we're here, in fact -- even if not all the time -- there is generally at least one of the moderators overseeing things at all times even if it may not seem that way, except when we sleep <g>. Even then, I've seen Lenny or one of the other moderators "on duty" replying to someone's problems, because I'm sometimes there too at 2:00 AM overseeing things. Yes, there may be some lapses sometimes between messages getting posted, but perhaps the moderator is answering another question during those times, or attending to other Forums/Groups. I'm on a number of other ones myself and moderate 3 other Groups (you can't expect us to devote our full time here), although I have to say that this Group is the most active by far. -- which makes for good constant sources of new information. I hope you can excuse the lack of us supplying you with instant gratification, and can understand our reason and necessity for it; I regret your frustrations, but I know you'll find this site worthwhile -- many others here do. Cordially, Ray Wetzel, Moderator --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "kuradi8" <kuradi8@...> wrote: > > Dear Moderator(s) > > I see that you need to approve EVERY message that we submit to be posted. It's a lot of work for you and the impatient ones among us (me) often get a little frustrated at the lack of instant gratification because we (I) want a quick reply. I belong to several other Yahoo Groups and they are set up so that the regular active members (of which we seem to have quite a few) can post automatically. Only newcomers and inactive members need to go through moderator approval. > > How do you feel about changing this Group to that sort of a system? > ~Kai > > > PS - You don't have to post this for everyone to see unless you want their opinions too. >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 43250	From: kuradi8	Date: 9/10/2009
Subject: Re: Air Pumps

Before Labor Day Weekend madness (holy cow, it seems like everything I was watching got bid up to way beyond what they'd sold for in the past) the average price of Rena 400s was appx $40, including shipping. Since the weekend, they've been selling for about $46-47, which is what this last one went for. And "Buy it Now" units have been in the mid-40s plus shipping all along. I'm still favoring the Rena over the AP300. I like the others that have been recommended but they're all twice the price. I really should just pay the extra $10 and GET ONE -- but "the thrill of the hunt" factors in on ebay to "shop victoriously." :oP And having grown up in "the land of competitive pricing" in the NYC 'burbs, it just kills me to pay anything more than the rock bottom price for anything. ~Kai --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@...> wrote: > > How much did it sell for? > > I see prices in the low-to-mid-$40's on Google Shopping and mid-$40's on > Yahoo Shopping. That DrsFosterSmith.com link I gave further down in this > thread had their regular price at $62.99. > > That's a nice ePinion that you found. Most of them are pretty crappy but > it's obvious that author knew what they were talking about. I think the > 2-piston model \\Steve// mentioned would solve the pulsing air flow that the > 1-piston model might create. These types of pumps are designed for use on > fish rooms with dozens of tanks and using the air to power sponge or UGF > filtration, not for the single tank and air stone usage you are looking for. > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right > side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > Kai wrote: > > http://www.epinions.com/content_1788452996 says that piston pumps surge, > stop, surge, stop, etc -- and the fish don't like it. It tells to build a > pressure tank to prevent that but it doesn't sound like anything I'd want to > do. > > I bid on but lost a Rena 400 on ebay tonight so my budget must grow while my > search goes on. Sigh. > ~Kai > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Steve Szabo" <steve@> wrote: > > > > There is one pump I would like to put back into action, when I can > > find the space for more tanks, and that is the Supreme Dynamaster. The > > one I have has two pistons, but there is (was) also a one piston > > model. Even the one piston model would likely put out way more air > > than you want. I do not currently use an air pump, and cannot make a > > recommendation for you. Especially since I have not been really > > enamored of vibrator pumps since my Silent Giant went out on me, and I > was unable to repair it. > > That is an example of a company that made a product too well, and they > > went out of business when they could not sell enough pumps to stay in > > business. It seemed that everyone was using them. > > > > \\Steve// > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > Kai wrote: > > > > Thanks for your in depth (tee hee, pun intended) reply, Lenny. > > > > How deep is my tank? It's a standard consumer 55g which makes it 21" > > tall with a water depth of about 17-18". > > > > The pump lives in the cabinet below so the air hose must climb appx 43 > > vertical inches before it loops down to the bottom of the tank. Both > > the disappointing Tetra-60 and the (future?) Rena 400 are 2-outlet > > pumps so the other air hose crosses to the other corner of the 48" > > wide tank before it does the same. > > > > After my disappointment with the Tetra-60, I don't think I'd want > > another Tetra so therefore I am also leaning toward the Rena. But I'm > > also tempted by a pair of the el-cheapo 8-lpm units I pointed out > > earlier -- *if* I can get over my skepticism. ("Too good to be true" > > and "Ya get what ya pay for.") > > ~Kai > > > > > > > > > > > Lenny wrote: > > > > > > I would go with Rena over Tetra as a general rule.. although there's > > always > > > a chance that Tetra could make quality air pumps. You would have to > > Google > > > user reviews and compare warranties to find out for sure. > > > > > > Air pumps have more to do with the depth of your tank, rather than > > > the > > size > > > of your air stone. (almost sounds like one of them motion in the > > ocean > > > sayings.. lol) It takes work to push air under water so a deeper > > > tank > > needs > > > a much stronger air pump. It's nothing to do with watts or liters > > > per minute if the pump can't push the air down to the depths that > > > you > > might > > > need. > > > > > > How deep is your tank? > > > > > > My 65G goldfish tank is only 17" deep (48" x 18" footprint) and I > > > have > > a > > > Rena Air 300 that I used on the tank, with a 2' long bubble wand, > > > when > > I > > > first set it up and only had one filter system. I quit using it > > > after > > I > > > increased my filtration... but it had plenty of power to push the > > > air > > to > > > create a huge micro bubble curtain on the back of the glass. I even > > had to > > > throttle it back a little if I remember correctly. > > > > > > I tested a few air pumps before deciding on the Rena. I like it. > > > It's > > a > > > little noisy, as are most air pumps but I found that by sitting it > > > on > > a > > > small piece of carpeting, that made it almost as quiet as a mouse > > > and > > I > > > figured the carpeting would also help to filter out dust/dirt before > > it got > > > to the little filter pad on the bottom of the unit... which should > > > be cleaned or changed as needed. > > > > > > Here's the DFS page on Rena Air Pumps and you can read the Overview > > and More > > > Info tabs for better details. > > > http://www.drsfostersmith.com/product/prod_display.cfm?pcatid=3724 > > > > > > Remember to get an anti-siphon valve for your pump if you are going > > > to > > be > > > placing the pump below the water line. If you place the pump on a > > shelf > > > above the tank, you do not need the anti-siphon valve. Also > > > consider > > the > > > heating/cooling benefits of an air pump. If the pump is placed high > > in a > > > room, it will be sucking in warmer air than if it's on the floor > > > where > > it > > > will be sucking in cooler air. > > > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles > > > referenced in above reply are listed on the > > right > > > side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, > > Month) > > > > > > > > > > > > > Kai wrote: > > > > > > I've been shopping online, especially on ebay (people bid crazy high > > over > > > Labor Day Weekend) and now I have new questions. > > > > > > My top contenders at the moment are the Tetra AP300 and the Rena 400. > > The > > > AP300 will only tell me that it's 7.5w. All the other specs are > > > well guarded secrets. > > > > > > The Rena 400 is 8w and claims to put out 2x200 liters/hour. BUT... > > That's > > > only 3.3 liters/minute and I've seen other "no-name" units for > > > smaller > > tanks > > > claiming as much as 8 liters/minute. So I question whether that's > > > the > > right > > > spec for me to be looking at. (Kinda like a large car with a small > > engine > > > boasting about the number of cup-holders.) > > > > > > The Rena 400's online operator's manual shows it runs 4" and 6" air > > stones. > > > So what would I need for my dual 24" curtain wands? A Sears > > automotive shop > > > compressor??? > > > > > > OK, rant over. (And now I hope you understand my confusion.) > > > > > > So... How do I pick an air pump? What is the most important spec? > > > Wattage? Liters per hour/minute? PSI? > > > > > > Thanks in advance for your help. :o) ~Kai > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > On September 9, Kai wrote: > > > > > > > > I bought a Whisper-60 for my 55g about a year ago and I'm > > disappointed > > > with its output. I had two 24" curtain wands and thought they might > > have > > > been too old/clogged so I replaced them with two 4" disks. They are > > also > > > wimpy-wimpy-wimpy in their output. One just "sizzles" a little air, > > the > > > other "blurps" a big bubble every 10 seconds or so. > > > > > > > > I think it's the air pump's fault. It started out weak and seems > > > > to > > have > > > gotten worse. I would like to replace it with something with a bit > > more > > > horsepower. Any recommendations? > > > > ~Kai > > > > (Pennsylvania) >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 43251	From: kuradi8	Date: 9/10/2009
Subject: Re: Dear Moderator(s)

As I have already said, it's OK, Ray. Even though you disapprove of my ID and that I only post in bursts when I need advice, I am obviously not a spammer -- which is why you moderators have the approval step. If you/moderators want to go through the extra step of manually approving each of my posts, that's OK. It's a little frustrating to add the approval time to my questions and others' answers -- but I appreciate the all of advice I get and can live with the lack of instant gratification. I was just pointing out how it's done at other Yahoo Groups that I belong to and suggested that this Group could run just as smoothly with less stringent moderator control. It's less work for you and more "conversational" for the rest of us. But really... it's ***OK*** if you don't want to change your policy. Thanks for taking the time to write such an in depth reply. :o) ~Kai --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "sevenspringss" <sevenspringss@...> wrote: > > Hello Kai, In your interests of wanting to see us change the moderated status of the membership, I'm sure you wouldn't mind more input. I regret that I was unavailable yesterday to participate in these discussions, but I've previewed your status in the meantime. > > I trust you can understand our preference for keeping the moderations in place, and our reasons for doing so as Lenny and other have outlined. With going over your status, it wouldn't appear to me that even if we were to have "regular active members" post automatically, it wouldn't seem that you'd be included. You've only been a member for four months -- since May 9, 2009 -- and while this rather short period as a member may not necessarily preclude one from being considered one of the "regulars," your brief posting has not given us the opportunity to get to comfortably know your motives or ways. You have not given us the opportunity to get to know you. I understand your assurances that you wouldn't be a spammer, but we would have to feel the same way about anyone with such a short posting history, whether they were seeking information or giving advice in their messages; I notice you were mainly giving advice -- which was appreciated. > > With your first post (#43093 -- 11:14 AM 5/9/09), having the Subject title of "Antibiotics," I see you did introduce yourself (using your other User Name -- Kuradi Eit) then went on to give advice. You were quite active for the first week or so after that, but as the month went by your posts became fewer, appearing about once every 4 or 5 days or so until you stopped abruptly on May 27th with your message # 40518. You hadn't even stayed one full month as there is no sign of you through at least June 9th. You haven't posted all August (I hadn't bothered to look for your posts the rest of June or July, but I can't say I recall hearing from you). You're next message (#40518) was only last Friday on September 4th; where have you been? I'm not knocking your infrequent posts, but I'm sure you can see that we could hardly call you a regular. In fact, to ask us to release your moderation would appear to me as being rather bold, almost to the point of being audacious in view of your just getting to be known here. I think you are asking too much in light of your past brief history. > > My purpose is not to berate you however, but only to point out to you how anyone not yet very familiar to us would not yet be considered a regular, which you may not have realized from your point of view. You certainly had the right to ask, even though it may have been quite presumptuous. In any case, because of other problems we've had in the past (and with the same ongoing problems) with prospective spammers who we constantly have to deal with, we find it best to keep the moderatind process in place. We don't mind the extra work, as that's part of why we're here, in fact -- even if not all the time -- there is generally at least one of the moderators overseeing things at all times even if it may not seem that way, except when we sleep <g>. Even then, I've seen Lenny or one of the other moderators "on duty" replying to someone's problems, because I'm sometimes there too at 2:00 AM overseeing things. > > Yes, there may be some lapses sometimes between messages getting posted, but perhaps the moderator is answering another question during those times, or attending to other Forums/Groups. I'm on a number of other ones myself and moderate 3 other Groups (you can't expect us to devote our full time here), although I have to say that this Group is the most active by far. -- which makes for good constant sources of new information. I hope you can excuse the lack of us supplying you with instant gratification, and can understand our reason and necessity for it; I regret your frustrations, but I know you'll find this site worthwhile -- many others here do. Cordially, Ray Wetzel, Moderator > > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "kuradi8" <kuradi8@> wrote: > > > > Dear Moderator(s) > > > > I see that you need to approve EVERY message that we submit to be posted. It's a lot of work for you and the impatient ones among us (me) often get a little frustrated at the lack of instant gratification because we (I) want a quick reply. I belong to several other Yahoo Groups and they are set up so that the regular active members (of which we seem to have quite a few) can post automatically. Only newcomers and inactive members need to go through moderator approval. > > > > How do you feel about changing this Group to that sort of a system? > > ~Kai > > > > > > PS - You don't have to post this for everyone to see unless you want their opinions too. > > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 43252	From: greychildren	Date: 9/10/2009
Subject: Malawi's in the wild beutifull colors enjoy

http://www.dailymotion.com/relevance/search/cichlid/video/x1pbc1_malawi-cichlids_animals Hope you guys like this

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 43253	From: Kevin Boyle	Date: 9/10/2009
Subject: Re: Air Pumps

the down side with either of the supreme piston air pumps is that they are very noisy as compared with any diaphram type pump, they also use a lot more electricity, and run rather hot. both of them do pulse a little, the dual piston more then the single piston but it's really not as problem ----- Original Message ----- From: "kuradi8" <kuradi8@...> To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Thursday, September 10, 2009 9:27:06 AM GMT -05:00 US/Canada Eastern Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Air Pumps   Before Labor Day Weekend madness (holy cow, it seems like everything I was watching got bid up to way beyond what they'd sold for in the past) the average price of Rena 400s was appx $40, including shipping. Since the weekend, they've been selling for about $46-47, which is what this last one went for. And "Buy it Now" units have been in the mid-40s plus shipping all along. I'm still favoring the Rena over the AP300. I like the others that have been recommended but they're all twice the price. I really should just pay the extra $10 and GET ONE -- but "the thrill of the hunt" factors in on ebay to "shop victoriously." :oP And having grown up in "the land of competitive pricing" in the NYC 'burbs, it just kills me to pay anything more than the rock bottom price for anything. ~Kai --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com , "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@...> wrote: > > How much did it sell for? > > I see prices in the low-to-mid-$40's on Google Shopping and mid-$40's on > Yahoo Shopping. That DrsFosterSmith.com link I gave further down in this > thread had their regular price at $62.99. > > That's a nice ePinion that you found. Most of them are pretty crappy but > it's obvious that author knew what they were talking about. I think the > 2-piston model \\Steve// mentioned would solve the pulsing air flow that the > 1-piston model might create. These types of pumps are designed for use on > fish rooms with dozens of tanks and using the air to power sponge or UGF > filtration, not for the single tank and air stone usage you are looking for. > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right > side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > Kai wrote: > > http://www.epinions.com/content_1788452996 says that piston pumps surge, > stop, surge, stop, etc -- and the fish don't like it. It tells to build a > pressure tank to prevent that but it doesn't sound like anything I'd want to > do. > > I bid on but lost a Rena 400 on ebay tonight so my budget must grow while my > search goes on. Sigh. > ~Kai > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com , "Steve Szabo" <steve@> wrote: > > > > There is one pump I would like to put back into action, when I can > > find the space for more tanks, and that is the Supreme Dynamaster. The > > one I have has two pistons, but there is (was) also a one piston > > model. Even the one piston model would likely put out way more air > > than you want. I do not currently use an air pump, and cannot make a > > recommendation for you. Especially since I have not been really > > enamored of vibrator pumps since my Silent Giant went out on me, and I > was unable to repair it. > > That is an example of a company that made a product too well, and they > > went out of business when they could not sell enough pumps to stay in > > business. It seemed that everyone was using them. > > > > \\Steve// > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > Kai wrote: > > > > Thanks for your in depth (tee hee, pun intended) reply, Lenny. > > > > How deep is my tank? It's a standard consumer 55g which makes it 21" > > tall with a water depth of about 17-18". > > > > The pump lives in the cabinet below so the air hose must climb appx 43 > > vertical inches before it loops down to the bottom of the tank. Both > > the disappointing Tetra-60 and the (future?) Rena 400 are 2-outlet > > pumps so the other air hose crosses to the other corner of the 48" > > wide tank before it does the same. > > > > After my disappointment with the Tetra-60, I don't think I'd want > > another Tetra so therefore I am also leaning toward the Rena. But I'm > > also tempted by a pair of the el-cheapo 8-lpm units I pointed out > > earlier -- *if* I can get over my skepticism. ("Too good to be true" > > and "Ya get what ya pay for.") > > ~Kai > > > > > > > > > > > Lenny wrote: > > > > > > I would go with Rena over Tetra as a general rule.. although there's > > always > > > a chance that Tetra could make quality air pumps. You would have to > > Google > > > user reviews and compare warranties to find out for sure. > > > > > > Air pumps have more to do with the depth of your tank, rather than > > > the > > size > > > of your air stone. (almost sounds like one of them motion in the > > ocean > > > sayings.. lol) It takes work to push air under water so a deeper > > > tank > > needs > > > a much stronger air pump. It's nothing to do with watts or liters > > > per minute if the pump can't push the air down to the depths that > > > you > > might > > > need. > > > > > > How deep is your tank? > > > > > > My 65G goldfish tank is only 17" deep (48" x 18" footprint) and I > > > have > > a > > > Rena Air 300 that I used on the tank, with a 2' long bubble wand, > > > when > > I > > > first set it up and only had one filter system. I quit using it > > > after > > I > > > increased my filtration... but it had plenty of power to push the > > > air > > to > > > create a huge micro bubble curtain on the back of the glass. I even > > had to > > > throttle it back a little if I remember correctly. > > > > > > I tested a few air pumps before deciding on the Rena. I like it. > > > It's > > a > > > little noisy, as are most air pumps but I found that by sitting it > > > on > > a > > > small piece of carpeting, that made it almost as quiet as a mouse > > > and > > I > > > figured the carpeting would also help to filter out dust/dirt before > > it got > > > to the little filter pad on the bottom of the unit... which should > > > be cleaned or changed as needed. > > > > > > Here's the DFS page on Rena Air Pumps and you can read the Overview > > and More > > > Info tabs for better details. > > > http://www.drsfostersmith.com/product/prod_display.cfm?pcatid=3724 > > > > > > Remember to get an anti-siphon valve for your pump if you are going > > > to > > be > > > placing the pump below the water line. If you place the pump on a > > shelf > > > above the tank, you do not need the anti-siphon valve. Also > > > consider > > the > > > heating/cooling benefits of an air pump. If the pump is placed high > > in a > > > room, it will be sucking in warmer air than if it's on the floor > > > where > > it > > > will be sucking in cooler air. > > > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles > > > referenced in above reply are listed on the > > right > > > side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, > > Month) > > > > > > > > > > > > > Kai wrote: > > > > > > I've been shopping online, especially on ebay (people bid crazy high > > over > > > Labor Day Weekend) and now I have new questions. > > > > > > My top contenders at the moment are the Tetra AP300 and the Rena 400. > > The > > > AP300 will only tell me that it's 7.5w. All the other specs are > > > well guarded secrets. > > > > > > The Rena 400 is 8w and claims to put out 2x200 liters/hour. BUT... > > That's > > > only 3.3 liters/minute and I've seen other "no-name" units for > > > smaller > > tanks > > > claiming as much as 8 liters/minute. So I question whether that's > > > the > > right > > > spec for me to be looking at. (Kinda like a large car with a small > > engine > > > boasting about the number of cup-holders.) > > > > > > The Rena 400's online operator's manual shows it runs 4" and 6" air > > stones. > > > So what would I need for my dual 24" curtain wands? A Sears > > automotive shop > > > compressor??? > > > > > > OK, rant over. (And now I hope you understand my confusion.) > > > > > > So... How do I pick an air pump? What is the most important spec? > > > Wattage? Liters per hour/minute? PSI? > > > > > > Thanks in advance for your help. :o) ~Kai > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > On September 9, Kai wrote: > > > > > > > > I bought a Whisper-60 for my 55g about a year ago and I'm > > disappointed > > > with its output. I had two 24" curtain wands and thought they might > > have > > > been too old/clogged so I replaced them with two 4" disks. They are > > also > > > wimpy-wimpy-wimpy in their output. One just "sizzles" a little air, > > the > > > other "blurps" a big bubble every 10 seconds or so. > > > > > > > > I think it's the air pump's fault. It started out weak and seems > > > > to > > have > > > gotten worse. I would like to replace it with something with a bit > > more > > > horsepower. Any recommendations? > > > > ~Kai > > > > (Pennsylvania) > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 43254	From: Heather	Date: 9/10/2009
Subject: Re: Dear Moderator(s)

Ya know this is the only post I have actually had come through in my email since joining a few days ago. When I go to the groups site I see there have been lots of posts made but for some reason I am not receiving them...how odd I receive this one of all posts....hahaha! Hopefully yahoo can get itself together and start delivering all the posts to me...in the meantime I guess Ill pop onto the groups web page when I get a chance to read emails. Huge Hugs~Heather http://www.youravon.com/hbroschayt --- On Thu, 9/10/09, kuradi8 <kuradi8@...> wrote: From: kuradi8 <kuradi8@...> Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Dear Moderator(s) To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Date: Thursday, September 10, 2009, 9:51 AM   As I have already said, it's OK, Ray. Even though you disapprove of my ID and that I only post in bursts when I need advice, I am obviously not a spammer -- which is why you moderators have the approval step. If you/moderators want to go through the extra step of manually approving each of my posts, that's OK. It's a little frustrating to add the approval time to my questions and others' answers -- but I appreciate the all of advice I get and can live with the lack of instant gratification. I was just pointing out how it's done at other Yahoo Groups that I belong to and suggested that this Group could run just as smoothly with less stringent moderator control. It's less work for you and more "conversational" for the rest of us. But really... it's ***OK*** if you don't want to change your policy. Thanks for taking the time to write such an in depth reply. :o) ~Kai --- In AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com, "sevenspringss" <sevenspringss@ ...> wrote: > > Hello Kai, In your interests of wanting to see us change the moderated status of the membership, I'm sure you wouldn't mind more input. I regret that I was unavailable yesterday to participate in these discussions, but I've previewed your status in the meantime. > > I trust you can understand our preference for keeping the moderations in place, and our reasons for doing so as Lenny and other have outlined. With going over your status, it wouldn't appear to me that even if we were to have "regular active members" post automatically, it wouldn't seem that you'd be included. You've only been a member for four months -- since May 9, 2009 -- and while this rather short period as a member may not necessarily preclude one from being considered one of the "regulars," your brief posting has not given us the opportunity to get to comfortably know your motives or ways. You have not given us the opportunity to get to know you. I understand your assurances that you wouldn't be a spammer, but we would have to feel the same way about anyone with such a short posting history, whether they were seeking information or giving advice in their messages; I notice you were mainly giving advice -- which was appreciated. > > With your first post (#43093 -- 11:14 AM 5/9/09), having the Subject title of "Antibiotics, " I see you did introduce yourself (using your other User Name -- Kuradi Eit) then went on to give advice. You were quite active for the first week or so after that, but as the month went by your posts became fewer, appearing about once every 4 or 5 days or so until you stopped abruptly on May 27th with your message # 40518. You hadn't even stayed one full month as there is no sign of you through at least June 9th. You haven't posted all August (I hadn't bothered to look for your posts the rest of June or July, but I can't say I recall hearing from you). You're next message (#40518) was only last Friday on September 4th; where have you been? I'm not knocking your infrequent posts, but I'm sure you can see that we could hardly call you a regular. In fact, to ask us to release your moderation would appear to me as being rather bold, almost to the point of being audacious in view of your just getting to be known here. I think you are asking too much in light of your past brief history. > > My purpose is not to berate you however, but only to point out to you how anyone not yet very familiar to us would not yet be considered a regular, which you may not have realized from your point of view. You certainly had the right to ask, even though it may have been quite presumptuous. In any case, because of other problems we've had in the past (and with the same ongoing problems) with prospective spammers who we constantly have to deal with, we find it best to keep the moderatind process in place. We don't mind the extra work, as that's part of why we're here, in fact -- even if not all the time -- there is generally at least one of the moderators overseeing things at all times even if it may not seem that way, except when we sleep <g>. Even then, I've seen Lenny or one of the other moderators "on duty" replying to someone's problems, because I'm sometimes there too at 2:00 AM overseeing things. > > Yes, there may be some lapses sometimes between messages getting posted, but perhaps the moderator is answering another question during those times, or attending to other Forums/Groups. I'm on a number of other ones myself and moderate 3 other Groups (you can't expect us to devote our full time here), although I have to say that this Group is the most active by far. -- which makes for good constant sources of new information. I hope you can excuse the lack of us supplying you with instant gratification, and can understand our reason and necessity for it; I regret your frustrations, but I know you'll find this site worthwhile -- many others here do. Cordially, Ray Wetzel, Moderator > > > > > --- In AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com, "kuradi8" <kuradi8@> wrote: > > > > Dear Moderator(s) > > > > I see that you need to approve EVERY message that we submit to be posted. It's a lot of work for you and the impatient ones among us (me) often get a little frustrated at the lack of instant gratification because we (I) want a quick reply. I belong to several other Yahoo Groups and they are set up so that the regular active members (of which we seem to have quite a few) can post automatically. Only newcomers and inactive members need to go through moderator approval. > > > > How do you feel about changing this Group to that sort of a system? > > ~Kai > > > > > > PS - You don't have to post this for everyone to see unless you want their opinions too. > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 43255	From: Cee Jaye	Date: 9/10/2009
Subject: Oscar Question - (moved)

I have a question, I moved yesterday evening & have an Oscar. He is approximately 1 & 1/2yrs old (don't know if that makes a difference;) I have had him since the size of about a 1/2 dollar. . . My question is this. . . He has been at my ex-husband's house & they didn't really do any "maintenance" . . . Just added water when it got low & fed him . . I put him in a bucket to move him with as much of his old water as possible. I set up his tank this am & have the filter running (which I cleaned up). I have things like stress coat, novaqua, amquel, prime, etc. Should I add those to the water & let it run awhile before adding him? I put some of his old water into the tank & then enough new water to run the filter to get it going & I added some new water to his bucket. When do you think it would be ok to go ahead & add him to the tank? I have him a long while & really do not want him to die on me. Thanks Tara [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 43256	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 9/10/2009
Subject: Re: Malawi's in the wild beutifull colors enjoy

If you like that, you should also check out the NatGeo video "Jewel Of The Rift". You can view it for free on YouTube here... http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9nrPdnzW6eo It's in 10 parts on YouTube, so about an hour long, but if you get the NatGeo Channel, I hear it plays on that on a regular basis. If you have a good video card, monitor and high speed internet, watch it in HQ by clicking the little HQ button on the bottom right and full screen as well. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of greychildren Sent: Thursday, September 10, 2009 11:27 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Malawi's in the wild beutifull colors enjoy http://www.dailymotion.com/relevance/search/cichlid/video/x1pbc1_malawi-cich lids_animals Hope you guys like this

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 43257	From: bill 1433	Date: 9/10/2009
Subject: Re: Dear Moderator(s)

Hi Heather,   While your over there check that the box for "digest" is left non checked, otherwise you will get your messages in a sort of magazine form, about 10 or 20 at once!   Bill --- On Thu, 9/10/09, Heather <lilredhd1@...> wrote: From: Heather <lilredhd1@...> Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: Dear Moderator(s) To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Date: Thursday, September 10, 2009, 11:52 AM  Ya know this is the only post I have actually had come through in my email since joining a few days ago. When I go to the groups site I see there have been lots of posts made but for some reason I am not receiving them...how odd I receive this one of all posts....hahaha! Hopefully yahoo can get itself together and start delivering all the posts to me...in the meantime I guess Ill pop onto the groups web page when I get a chance to read emails. Huge Hugs~Heather http://www.youravon.com/hbroschayt --- On Thu, 9/10/09, kuradi8 <kuradi8@...> wrote: From: kuradi8 <kuradi8@...> Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Dear Moderator(s) To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Date: Thursday, September 10, 2009, 9:51 AM                         As I have already said, it's OK, Ray.  Even though you disapprove of my ID and that I only post in bursts when I need advice, I am obviously not a spammer -- which is why you moderators have the approval step.  If you/moderators want to go through the extra step of manually approving each of my posts, that's OK.  It's a little frustrating to add the approval time to my questions and others' answers -- but I appreciate the all of advice I get and can live with the lack of instant gratification. I was just pointing out how it's done at other Yahoo Groups that I belong to and suggested that this Group could run just as smoothly with less stringent moderator control.  It's less work for you and more "conversational" for the rest of us. But really... it's ***OK*** if you don't want to change your policy. Thanks for taking the time to write such an in depth reply.  :o) ~Kai --- In AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com, "sevenspringss" <sevenspringss@ ...> wrote: > > Hello Kai,  In your interests of wanting to see us change the moderated status of the membership, I'm sure you wouldn't mind more input.  I regret that I was unavailable yesterday to participate in these discussions, but I've previewed your status in the meantime.  > > I trust you can understand our preference for keeping the moderations in place, and our reasons for doing so as Lenny and other have outlined.  With going over your status, it wouldn't appear to me that even if we were to have "regular active members" post automatically, it wouldn't seem that you'd be included.  You've only been a member for four months -- since May 9, 2009 -- and while this rather short period as a member may not necessarily preclude one from being considered one of the "regulars," your brief posting has not given us the opportunity to get to comfortably know your motives or ways.  You have not given us the opportunity to get to know you.  I understand your assurances that you wouldn't be a spammer, but we would have to feel the same way about anyone with such a short posting history, whether they were seeking information or giving advice in their messages; I notice you were mainly giving advice -- which was appreciated. > > With your first post (#43093 -- 11:14 AM 5/9/09), having the Subject title of "Antibiotics, " I see you did introduce yourself (using your other User Name -- Kuradi Eit) then went on to give advice.  You were quite active for the first week or so after that, but as the month went by your posts became fewer, appearing about once every 4 or 5 days or so until you stopped abruptly on May 27th with your message # 40518.  You hadn't even stayed one full month as there is no sign of you through at least June 9th.  You haven't posted all August (I hadn't bothered to look for your posts the rest of June or July, but I can't say I recall hearing from you).  You're next message (#40518) was only last Friday on September 4th; where have you been?  I'm not knocking your infrequent posts, but I'm sure you can see that we could hardly call you a regular.  In fact, to ask us to release your moderation would appear to me as being rather bold, almost to the point of being audacious in view of your just getting to be known here.  I think you are asking too much in light of your past brief history.  > > My purpose is not to berate you however, but only to point out to you how anyone not yet very familiar to us would not yet be considered a regular, which you may not have realized from your point of view.  You certainly had the right to ask, even though it may have been quite presumptuous.  In any case, because of other problems we've had in the past (and with the same ongoing problems) with prospective spammers who we constantly have to deal with, we find it best to keep the moderatind process in place.  We don't mind the extra work, as that's part of why we're here, in fact -- even if not all the time -- there is generally at least one of the moderators overseeing things at all times even if it may not seem that way, except when we sleep <g>.  Even then, I've seen Lenny or one of the other moderators "on duty" replying to someone's problems, because I'm sometimes there too at 2:00 AM overseeing things.  > > Yes, there may be some lapses sometimes between messages getting posted, but perhaps the moderator is answering another question during those times, or attending to other Forums/Groups.  I'm on a number of other ones myself and moderate 3 other Groups (you can't expect us to devote our full time here), although I have to say that this Group is the most active by far. -- which makes for good constant sources of new information.  I hope you can excuse the lack of us supplying you with instant gratification, and can understand our reason and necessity for it; I regret your frustrations, but I know you'll find this site worthwhile -- many others here do.  Cordially,  Ray Wetzel, Moderator > > > > > --- In AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com, "kuradi8" <kuradi8@> wrote: > > > > Dear Moderator(s) > > > > I see that you need to approve EVERY message that we submit to be posted.  It's a lot of work for you and the impatient ones among us (me) often get a little frustrated at the lack of instant gratification because we (I) want a quick reply.  I belong to several other Yahoo Groups and they are set up so that the regular active members (of which we seem to have quite a few) can post automatically.  Only newcomers and inactive members need to go through moderator approval. > > > > How do you feel about changing this Group to that sort of a system? > > ~Kai > > > > > > PS - You don't have to post this for everyone to see unless you want their opinions too. > > >                                                   [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] ------------------------------------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the home page.  Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com to receive the digest, which includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com for the No E-Mail option where you will still be able to read messages on the group and post replies. Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com to receive individual e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 43258	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 9/10/2009
Subject: Re: Oscar Question - (moved)

I wish you would have asked us before you made the move but we'll help as best we can now. When you cleaned the filter, how did you clean it? If you cleaned it thoroughly, then you also may have killed off all of the good nitrifying bacteria that lives mostly in the filter media. This means you will likely have Nitrogen Cycle issues like on a newly set up tank. When you set up the tank again, which dechlor product did you use to treat your tap water? Since you have Prime, I would use it as your dechlor product for the next month or two and then you can switch to a lower cost dechlor. DO NOT use all the other stuff you have. You will still have to go through the nitrogen cycle and do frequent PWC's (partial water changes) to keep the ammonia and nitrite levels down to reasonably safe levels but the Prime will help in making the ammonia less toxic. Add a pinch of salt per 10G to help prevent nitrite poisoning when you get your nitrite spike. Do you have a Master Test Kit for testing the water for things like ammonia, nitrite, nitrate, pH, etc.? Let us know which tests you do have, if any. If you did use a dechlor on the tank water, then you can start SLOWLY acclimating him to the new water since he has lived in the funky water for so long. It would help to know the water parameters of the water he was living in and the new water but absent that, you should probably set up a drip line to add tank water to his bucket. Here's a page about acclimating fish which includes this method of acclimation which starts about 1/2 way down on the page. http://www.csupomona.edu/~jskoga/Aquariums/Acclimation.html Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Cee Jaye Sent: Thursday, September 10, 2009 11:43 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Oscar Question - (moved) I have a question, I moved yesterday evening & have an Oscar. He is approximately 1 & 1/2yrs old (don't know if that makes a difference;) I have had him since the size of about a 1/2 dollar. . . My question is this. . . He has been at my ex-husband's house & they didn't really do any "maintenance" . . . Just added water when it got low & fed him . . I put him in a bucket to move him with as much of his old water as possible. I set up his tank this am & have the filter running (which I cleaned up). I have things like stress coat, novaqua, amquel, prime, etc. Should I add those to the water & let it run awhile before adding him? I put some of his old water into the tank & then enough new water to run the filter to get it going & I added some new water to his bucket. When do you think it would be ok to go ahead & add him to the tank? I have him a long while & really do not want him to die on me. Thanks Tara

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 43259	From: sevenspringss	Date: 9/10/2009
Subject: Re: Oscar Question - (moved)

Tara, If it's at all possible, put an airstone (running) in his bucket to provide a turnover of the water, to enable a better transfer of oxygen. I hope you have aquarium water test kits (please let us know). As your ex-husband had only been topping off the tank when the water got low and really didn't do any maintenance, the Oscar's water in the bucket is most probably quite acidic and probably high in nitrates; it may even have some ammonium and/or nitrite. Most water companies provide water with a pH of over 7.0, usually in the vicinity of pH 7.4 to 7.6 (but could be higher depending on local conditions). If this Oscar is put directly into this probably much higher pH (from most likely a pH of 6.0 -- or LOWER), it will suffer pH shock. You've already added some of his bucket water to the tank, as I read. If there is any ammonium in his water, this will be released as toxic ammonia as it mixes with the much higher pH tap water; actually, the more of his bucket water you add to this higher pH tap water, the more toxic this mix will become -- IF it now has ammonium. You need to test his water for ammonia, nitrite, nitrate and pH and test the tap water for pH. If his bucket water has no ammonia (ammonium, when the pH is below 7.0), it's safe to add the Oscar and his water to the tank, with certain provisions, as long as you do it SLOWLY. Of the four water conditioner use the PRIME. You will need to use this to neutralize the chloramine in the tap water, but at the same time this product will also take care of any ammonium that might be in his water when adding an additional amount, rendering this ammonium non-toxic. Knowing the amount (if any) of ammonium in his water will give you some idea of how much extra Prime you need to use. Now, if his pH is much different than that of the tap water, you'll need to acclimate him over to the new water slowly, to prevent pH shock. The wider the difference between these two pH's, the more time you'll need to take in adjusting him over. You can do this by removing (and if not containing ammonium, nitrite or nitrate -- this last one especially if it's only at 40 PPM or below), a small portion of his water and adding an equal amount of the tank water (at the same temperature) to his bucket a number of times. As he'll be the sole occupant of this tank, you may add his bucket discard water to his tank -- if it doesn't contain ammonium, nitrite or higher levels of nitrate much above 40 ppm, otherwise just discard down the drain. I don't know how large this bucket is, you haven't said, but if it's a 5 gallon bucket for instance, with about 4 gallons of water in it, you can change out about a pint and a half to a quart of water each time, every 10 or 15 minutes for about 2 hours. This would be if his water is much different than the tap water, as the length of this acclimation process depends directly on how similar or how different these two waters are. If there's less of a difference, you can cut the water exchange intervals back to every 10 minutes -- for about an hour and a half. If this difference is greater, you'll need to take more time. This will ensure that he gets used to these new water parameters slowly. If you're still not sure how to proceed, just run it by us after giving us all the test result numbers and we'll advise you from here. Oh, and if you don't have an airpump and airstone, just keep scooping his bucket water up with a cup and pouring it back in (from a height, so as to agitate his water actively) every 5 minutes or so as you acclimate him. Ray --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Cee Jaye" <CeeJayee@...> wrote: > > I have a question, I moved yesterday evening & have an Oscar. He is > approximately 1 & 1/2yrs old (don't know if that makes a difference;) I have > had him since the size of about a 1/2 dollar. . . > > My question is this. . . He has been at my ex-husband's house & they didn't > really do any "maintenance" . . . Just added water when it got low & fed him > . . > > I put him in a bucket to move him with as much of his old water as possible. > I set up his tank this am & have the filter running (which I cleaned up). I > have things like stress coat, novaqua, amquel, prime, etc. Should I add > those to the water & let it run awhile before adding him? I put some of his > old water into the tank & then enough new water to run the filter to get it > going & I added some new water to his bucket. > > When do you think it would be ok to go ahead & add him to the tank? I have > him a long while & really do not want him to die on me. > Thanks > Tara > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 43260	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 9/10/2009
Subject: Re: Oscar Question - (moved)

Oops.. after I looked at that page better, I realize the drip tube method they have is more complicated than it needs to be. Here's an easier method near the bottom of this page. http://www.fishlore.com/acclimating-tropicalfish.htm I tried to find a YouTube on this method but nothing jumped out at me. If you do not have a drip line available, you can simply use a cup and every 10 minutes, pour no more than a 10% increase into the bucket at a time (the tank's water into the bucket). As the bucket fills, dip some of the water out and pour it down a drain. Then keep up this process until you have fully acclimated the fish to the tanks water. This could take up to a couple of hours although hardier fish can be acclimated more quickly. I'm not sure what kind of shape your Oscar is in right now since it's been living in poor water quality for a while. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Cee Jaye Sent: Thursday, September 10, 2009 11:43 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Oscar Question - (moved) I have a question, I moved yesterday evening & have an Oscar. He is approximately 1 & 1/2yrs old (don't know if that makes a difference;) I have had him since the size of about a 1/2 dollar. . . My question is this. . . He has been at my ex-husband's house & they didn't really do any "maintenance" . . . Just added water when it got low & fed him . . I put him in a bucket to move him with as much of his old water as possible. I set up his tank this am & have the filter running (which I cleaned up). I have things like stress coat, novaqua, amquel, prime, etc. Should I add those to the water & let it run awhile before adding him? I put some of his old water into the tank & then enough new water to run the filter to get it going & I added some new water to his bucket. When do you think it would be ok to go ahead & add him to the tank? I have him a long while & really do not want him to die on me. Thanks Tara [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] ------------------------------------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. 74/`7.88.><((((:>.74/`7.88.74/`7.8><((((:> 8.74/`7.8. , .74/`7..><((((:> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <:((((><.74/`7.88.74/`7.8<:((((><8.74/`7.8. , .74/`7..<:((((><74/`7.88. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the home page. Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com to receive the digest, which includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com for the No E-Mail option where you will still be able to read messages on the group and post replies. Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com to receive individual e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 43261	From: Cee Jaye	Date: 9/10/2009
Subject: Re: Oscar Question - (moved)

Thank you for all the info - I didn't "thoroughly" clean the filter, but rinsed some of it out, as it was barely running water through. I didn't do anything to the tank water yet, as I wanted to see the recommendation first. Regular table salt? I have not added him to the tank yet, & still have him in the bucket, he's ok but I am worried about him being in there. . The move unfortunately was sudden:( This is a well system, so I am not sure how different it is from city systems - I know the water has been tested. It was treated a month or so ago, with shock it or something?? But there is not filtration system on the "well" water at this time. I do not have my pH test kit as I need to get a new one - I couldn't find the one I had there with the fish at my ex's house. Thank you for all the helpful info! Tara -------Original Message------- From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny Date: 9/10/2009 1:19:05 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Oscar Question - (moved) I wish you would have asked us before you made the move but we'll help as Best we can now. When you cleaned the filter, how did you clean it? If you cleaned it Thoroughly, then you also may have killed off all of the good nitrifying Bacteria that lives mostly in the filter media. This means you will likely Have Nitrogen Cycle issues like on a newly set up tank. When you set up the tank again, which dechlor product did you use to treat Your tap water? Since you have Prime, I would use it as your dechlor product for the next Month or two and then you can switch to a lower cost dechlor. DO NOT use All the other stuff you have. You will still have to go through the Nitrogen cycle and do frequent PWC's (partial water changes) to keep the Ammonia and nitrite levels down to reasonably safe levels but the Prime will Help in making the ammonia less toxic. Add a pinch of salt per 10G to help Prevent nitrite poisoning when you get your nitrite spike. Do you have a Master Test Kit for testing the water for things like ammonia, Nitrite, nitrate, pH, etc.? Let us know which tests you do have, if any. If you did use a dechlor on the tank water, then you can start SLOWLY acclimating him to the new water since he has lived in the funky water for so long. It would help to know the water parameters of the water he was living in and the new water but absent that, you should probably set up a drip line to add tank water to his bucket. Here's a page about acclimating fish which includes this method of acclimation which starts about 1/2 way down on the page. http://www.csupomona.edu/~jskoga/Aquariums/Acclimation.html Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Cee Jaye Sent: Thursday, September 10, 2009 11:43 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Oscar Question - (moved) I have a question, I moved yesterday evening & have an Oscar. He is approximately 1 & 1/2yrs old (don't know if that makes a difference;) I have had him since the size of about a 1/2 dollar. . . My question is this. . . He has been at my ex-husband's house & they didn't really do any "maintenance" . . . Just added water when it got low & fed him . . I put him in a bucket to move him with as much of his old water as possible. I set up his tank this am & have the filter running (which I cleaned up). I have things like stress coat, novaqua, amquel, prime, etc. Should I add those to the water & let it run awhile before adding him? I put some of his old water into the tank & then enough new water to run the filter to get it going & I added some new water to his bucket. When do you think it would be ok to go ahead & add him to the tank? I have him a long while & really do not want him to die on me. Thanks Tara ------------------------------------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the home page. Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com to receive the digest, which includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com for the No E-Mail option where you will still be able to read messages on the group and post replies. Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com to receive individual e-mails Yahoo! Groups Links [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 43262	From: Cee Jaye	Date: 9/10/2009
Subject: Re: Oscar Question - (moved)

Thank you very much for the information & help too:) I appreciate it. I didn t expect to suddenly move him like that . . :( I don't have a test kit right now. . . & now I am worried about ph:(( I don t want to loose him. . . The only think I can hope is that "well" water is different than tap (which I am sure it must be) & hopefully will not be as much of a shock for him. I am going to ask my ex to see if he knows where the test kit I had was. . I had all that stuff;( The bucket is about 5 gal, & it prob has about 4 gal in (maybe a little less). I have been taking a cup & pouring his water several times now & then to "mix" up the air/water. Tara -------Original Message------- From: sevenspringss Date: 9/10/2009 1:44:25 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Oscar Question - (moved) Tara, If it's at all possible, put an airstone (running) in his bucket to provide a turnover of the water, to enable a better transfer of oxygen. I hope you have aquarium water test kits (please let us know). As your ex-husband had only been topping off the tank when the water got low and really didn't do any maintenance, the Oscar's water in the bucket is most probably quite acidic and probably high in nitrates; it may even have some ammonium and/or nitrite. Most water companies provide water with a pH of over 7.0, usually in the vicinity of pH 7.4 to 7.6 (but could be higher depending on local conditions). If this Oscar is put directly into this probably much higher pH (from most likely a pH of 6.0 -- or LOWER), it will suffer pH shock. You've already added some of his bucket water to the tank, as I read. If there is any ammonium in his water, this will be released as toxic ammonia as it mixes with the much higher pH tap water; actually, the more of his bucket water you add to this higher pH tap water, the more toxic this mix will become -- IF it now has ammonium. You need to test his water for ammonia, nitrite, nitrate and pH and test the tap water for pH. If his bucket water has no ammonia (ammonium, when the pH is below 7.0), it s safe to add the Oscar and his water to the tank, with certain provisions, as long as you do it SLOWLY. Of the four water conditioner use the PRIME. You will need to use this to neutralize the chloramine in the tap water, but at the same time this product will also take care of any ammonium that might be in his water when adding an additional amount, rendering this ammonium non-toxic. Knowing the amount (if any) of ammonium in his water will give you some idea of how much extra Prime you need to use. Now, if his pH is much different than that of the tap water, you'll need to acclimate him over to the new water slowly, to prevent pH shock. The wider the difference between these two pH's, the more time you'll need to take in adjusting him over. You can do this by removing (and if not containing ammonium, nitrite or nitrate -- this last one especially if it's only at 40 PPM or below), a small portion of his water and adding an equal amount of the tank water (at the same temperature) to his bucket a number of times. As he'll be the sole occupant of this tank, you may add his bucket discard water to his tank -- if it doesn't contain ammonium, nitrite or higher levels of nitrate much above 40 ppm, otherwise just discard down the drain. I don't know how large this bucket is, you haven't said, but if it's a 5 gallon bucket for instance, with about 4 gallons of water in it, you can change out about a pint and a half to a quart of water each time, every 10 or 15 minutes for about 2 hours. This would be if his water is much different than the tap water, as the length of this acclimation process depends directly on how similar or how different these two waters are. If there's less of a difference, you can cut the water exchange intervals back to every 10 minutes -- for about an hour and a half. If this difference is greater, you'll need to take more time. This will ensure that he gets used to these new water parameters slowly. If you're still not sure how to proceed, just run it by us after giving us all the test result numbers and we'll advise you from here. Oh, and if you don't have an airpump and airstone, just keep scooping his bucket water up with a cup and pouring it back in (from a height, so as to agitate his water actively) every 5 minutes or so as you acclimate him. Ray --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Cee Jaye" <CeeJayee@...> wrote: > > I have a question, I moved yesterday evening & have an Oscar. He is > approximately 1 & 1/2yrs old (don't know if that makes a difference;) I have > had him since the size of about a 1/2 dollar. . . > > My question is this. . . He has been at my ex-husband's house & they didn t > really do any "maintenance" . . . Just added water when it got low & fed him > . . > > I put him in a bucket to move him with as much of his old water as possible. > I set up his tank this am & have the filter running (which I cleaned up). I > have things like stress coat, novaqua, amquel, prime, etc. Should I add > those to the water & let it run awhile before adding him? I put some of his > old water into the tank & then enough new water to run the filter to get it > going & I added some new water to his bucket. > > When do you think it would be ok to go ahead & add him to the tank? I have > him a long while & really do not want him to die on me. > Thanks > Tara > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > ------------------------------------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the home page. Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com to receive the digest, which includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com for the No E-Mail option where you will still be able to read messages on the group and post replies. Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com to receive individual e-mails Yahoo! Groups Links [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 43263	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 9/10/2009
Subject: Re: Oscar Question - (moved)

Since you are on a well water system, hopefully you do not have chlorine/chloramine in your water so you would not have to use a dechlor but using Prime in the beginning would be helpful at least until we are sure that your tank is properly "Cycled" (The Nitrogen Cycle) and that we know what your water parameters are like. I see that Ray has also replied and he covers a lot of things I did not cover, or covers them in different ways. I'm wondering about the "shock it" treatment to your well. I'm not sure why they would have to do that but maybe one of the well owners out here can answer that. I know about using a shock chemical treatment in a swimming pool but I'm not sure how that would work in a well. I did do a quick Google and saw that it entails using a heavy dose of chlorine when a well system has been contaminated with bacteria. http://www.maine.gov/dhhs/eng/water/Templates/Sections/Field%20Services/well shockingfactsheet.htm I'm not sure how long this process lasts and/or if there would be residual chlorine in your water so hopefully you used the Prime on the tank water, otherwise if there was chlorine in the well water, any good bacteria that might have survived your filter cleaning would certainly be killed off with the chlorinated water. If the shock treatment has worn out and there was no residual chlorine, the bacteria would still only live for so long without a food source (fish urine, ammonia from decaying detritus, etc.) so you will still need to test your tank daily after adding your Oscar to make sure you do not have cycling issues. Instead of just getting a pH test kit, you can get a complete Master Test Kit for $15 - $17 from Walmart.com, with free shipping to your local store. That's the best bargain on the internet right now, AFAIK. Here's the links... http://www.walmart.com/catalog/product.do?product_id=3635493 http://www.walmart.com/catalog/product.do?product_id=3635399 Each kit is slightly inadequate. The top link to the API kit includes pH, ammonia, nitrite, nitrate but does not test for GH & KH (General Hardness & Carbonate Hardness). The 2nd link is to the Tetratest-Laborette kit and includes pH, ammonia, nitrite, GH, KH and CO2 but does not include the Nitrate test kit. API does sell a separate Nitrate kit and/or a separate GH/KH test kit so depending on which brand you choose above, you could get the added on kit and still have a full master kit for under $25.00. So to recap, yes, use the Prime on the tank before starting the acclimation process. Add a pinch of salt per 10G to help prevent nitrite poisoning if you get a nitrite spike. Yes, good old fashioned plain table salt (NaCL = Sodium Chloride) is fine... that stuff they sell as "aquarium salt" is the exact same thing for about 10 times the price. Even if all you have is Iodized Salt, that's still OK. Iodide is at such a small level and will not affect aquarium fish and only at higher levels, in ponds, where the sunlight affects the Iodide, does it become a possible issue. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Cee Jaye Sent: Thursday, September 10, 2009 12:46 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Oscar Question - (moved) Thank you for all the info - I didn't "thoroughly" clean the filter, but rinsed some of it out, as it was barely running water through. I didn't do anything to the tank water yet, as I wanted to see the recommendation first. Regular table salt? I have not added him to the tank yet, & still have him in the bucket, he's ok but I am worried about him being in there. . The move unfortunately was sudden:( This is a well system, so I am not sure how different it is from city systems - I know the water has been tested. It was treated a month or so ago, with shock it or something?? But there is not filtration system on the "well" water at this time. I do not have my pH test kit as I need to get a new one - I couldn't find the one I had there with the fish at my ex's house. Thank you for all the helpful info! Tara -------Original Message------- From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny Date: 9/10/2009 1:19:05 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Oscar Question - (moved) I wish you would have asked us before you made the move but we'll help as Best we can now. When you cleaned the filter, how did you clean it? If you cleaned it Thoroughly, then you also may have killed off all of the good nitrifying Bacteria that lives mostly in the filter media. This means you will likely Have Nitrogen Cycle issues like on a newly set up tank. When you set up the tank again, which dechlor product did you use to treat Your tap water? Since you have Prime, I would use it as your dechlor product for the next Month or two and then you can switch to a lower cost dechlor. DO NOT use All the other stuff you have. You will still have to go through the Nitrogen cycle and do frequent PWC's (partial water changes) to keep the Ammonia and nitrite levels down to reasonably safe levels but the Prime will Help in making the ammonia less toxic. Add a pinch of salt per 10G to help Prevent nitrite poisoning when you get your nitrite spike. Do you have a Master Test Kit for testing the water for things like ammonia, Nitrite, nitrate, pH, etc.? Let us know which tests you do have, if any. If you did use a dechlor on the tank water, then you can start SLOWLY acclimating him to the new water since he has lived in the funky water for so long. It would help to know the water parameters of the water he was living in and the new water but absent that, you should probably set up a drip line to add tank water to his bucket. Here's a page about acclimating fish which includes this method of acclimation which starts about 1/2 way down on the page. http://www.csupomona.edu/~jskoga/Aquariums/Acclimation.html Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Cee Jaye Sent: Thursday, September 10, 2009 11:43 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Oscar Question - (moved) I have a question, I moved yesterday evening & have an Oscar. He is approximately 1 & 1/2yrs old (don't know if that makes a difference;) I have had him since the size of about a 1/2 dollar. . . My question is this. . . He has been at my ex-husband's house & they didn't really do any "maintenance" . . . Just added water when it got low & fed him . . I put him in a bucket to move him with as much of his old water as possible. I set up his tank this am & have the filter running (which I cleaned up). I have things like stress coat, novaqua, amquel, prime, etc. Should I add those to the water & let it run awhile before adding him? I put some of his old water into the tank & then enough new water to run the filter to get it going & I added some new water to his bucket. When do you think it would be ok to go ahead & add him to the tank? I have him a long while & really do not want him to die on me. Thanks Tara ------------------------------------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the home page. Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com to receive the digest, which includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com for the No E-Mail option where you will still be able to read messages on the group and post replies. Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com to receive individual e-mails Yahoo! Groups Links [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] ------------------------------------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the home page. Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com to receive the digest, which includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com for the No E-Mail option where you will still be able to read messages on the group and post replies. Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com to receive individual e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 43264	From: sevenspringss	Date: 9/10/2009
Subject: Re: Oscar Question - (moved)

Ordinarily, especially as he'll be the only fish in the new tank (he thoroughly used to the old water he's in), and his old water is not carrying a disease, it's preferable to use as much of his water as you can -- as you have brought along -- provided his water parameters are safe. As you don't have test kits, we have to assume the worst case scenario and figure on his water being adverse to the tap water in pH (which it most probably is anyway), and has levels of ammonium, nitrite and nitrate -- even if it doesn't -- just to play it safe. When acclimating him then, any water that you remove from his bucket while doing this should be discarded down the drain and not added to the tank. Okay, I see that the bucket is a 5 gallon one -- that'a about the "standard" size. I suddenly see you mentioning "well water," whereas I hadn't seen that before. If you've stated such, I must have missed it. If this is your own private well water, you needn't use the Prime -- unless the amount of his bucket water you've already added to the tank is considerable, but being only a 5 gallon bucket I find that improbable. Please know though, that your well water could have at least the same pH as your tap water, if not higher if it runs through limestone deposits. Then too, it could be on the acidic side if it's not an especially deep well. If you feel "safer" using well water, then use half well water and half tap water, with Prime (half the dosage), since you don't have a pH test kit. keep up with agitating his water and proceed the acclamation, dumping a pint or pint and a half every 10 to 15 minutes, allowing him to get use to this mix slowly. Do this for up to 2 hours in this case -- again treating the situation as though it were at extremes (even though it may not be, but we can't know that) -- if you have the time. Otherwise, at LEAST an hour; preferable 1 1/2 hours or longer, to the 2 hours. Let us know how you make out with him. He should be fine, especially the longer you take acclimating him, with the least but practical amount of water you change out each time. I really do suspect that with maintaining him in the same water for 1 1/2 years with little or no maintenance, nor partial water changes, that his pH HAS to be at least 6.0 or lower, so go slow. BTW, how big of a tank are you putting him in? Ray --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Cee Jaye" <CeeJayee@...> wrote: > > Thank you very much for the information & help too:) I appreciate it. I didn > t expect to suddenly move him like that . . :( > I don't have a test kit right now. . . & now I am worried about ph:(( I don > t want to loose him. . . > The only think I can hope is that "well" water is different than tap (which > I am sure it must be) & hopefully will not be as much of a shock for him. I > am going to ask my ex to see if he knows where the test kit I had was. . I > had all that stuff;( > The bucket is about 5 gal, & it prob has about 4 gal in (maybe a little > less). I have been taking a cup & pouring his water several times now & then > to "mix" up the air/water. > Tara > > -------Original Message------- > > From: sevenspringss > Date: 9/10/2009 1:44:25 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Oscar Question - (moved) > > Tara, If it's at all possible, put an airstone (running) in his bucket to > provide a turnover of the water, to enable a better transfer of oxygen. I > hope you have aquarium water test kits (please let us know). As your > ex-husband had only been topping off the tank when the water got low and > really didn't do any maintenance, the Oscar's water in the bucket is most > probably quite acidic and probably high in nitrates; it may even have some > ammonium and/or nitrite. Most water companies provide water with a pH of > over 7.0, usually in the vicinity of pH 7.4 to 7.6 (but could be higher > depending on local conditions). If this Oscar is put directly into this > probably much higher pH (from most likely a pH of 6.0 -- or LOWER), it will > suffer pH shock. You've already added some of his bucket water to the tank, > as I read. If there is any ammonium in his water, this will be released as > toxic ammonia as it mixes with the much higher pH tap water; actually, the > more of his bucket water you add to this higher pH tap water, the more toxic > this mix will become -- IF it now has ammonium. You need to test his water > for ammonia, nitrite, nitrate and pH and test the tap water for pH. > > If his bucket water has no ammonia (ammonium, when the pH is below 7.0), it > s safe to add the Oscar and his water to the tank, with certain provisions, > as long as you do it SLOWLY. Of the four water conditioner use the PRIME. > You will need to use this to neutralize the chloramine in the tap water, but > at the same time this product will also take care of any ammonium that might > be in his water when adding an additional amount, rendering this ammonium > non-toxic. Knowing the amount (if any) of ammonium in his water will give > you some idea of how much extra Prime you need to use. > > Now, if his pH is much different than that of the tap water, you'll need to > acclimate him over to the new water slowly, to prevent pH shock. The wider > the difference between these two pH's, the more time you'll need to take in > adjusting him over. You can do this by removing (and if not containing > ammonium, nitrite or nitrate -- this last one especially if it's only at 40 > PPM or below), a small portion of his water and adding an equal amount of > the tank water (at the same temperature) to his bucket a number of times. > As he'll be the sole occupant of this tank, you may add his bucket discard > water to his tank -- if it doesn't contain ammonium, nitrite or higher > levels of nitrate much above 40 ppm, otherwise just discard down the drain. > > I don't know how large this bucket is, you haven't said, but if it's a 5 > gallon bucket for instance, with about 4 gallons of water in it, you can > change out about a pint and a half to a quart of water each time, every 10 > or 15 minutes for about 2 hours. This would be if his water is much > different than the tap water, as the length of this acclimation process > depends directly on how similar or how different these two waters are. If > there's less of a difference, you can cut the water exchange intervals back > to every 10 minutes -- for about an hour and a half. If this difference is > greater, you'll need to take more time. This will ensure that he gets used > to these new water parameters slowly. > > If you're still not sure how to proceed, just run it by us after giving us > all the test result numbers and we'll advise you from here. Oh, and if you > don't have an airpump and airstone, just keep scooping his bucket water up > with a cup and pouring it back in (from a height, so as to agitate his water > actively) every 5 minutes or so as you acclimate him. Ray > > > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Cee Jaye" <CeeJayee@> wrote: > > > > I have a question, I moved yesterday evening & have an Oscar. He is > > approximately 1 & 1/2yrs old (don't know if that makes a difference;) I > have > > had him since the size of about a 1/2 dollar. . . > > > > My question is this. . . He has been at my ex-husband's house & they didn > t > > really do any "maintenance" . . . Just added water when it got low & fed > him > > . . > > > > I put him in a bucket to move him with as much of his old water as > possible. > > I set up his tank this am & have the filter running (which I cleaned up). > I > > have things like stress coat, novaqua, amquel, prime, etc. Should I add > > those to the water & let it run awhile before adding him? I put some of > his > > old water into the tank & then enough new water to run the filter to get > it > > going & I added some new water to his bucket. > > > > When do you think it would be ok to go ahead & add him to the tank? I have > > him a long while & really do not want him to die on me. > > Thanks > > Tara > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > > > > ------------------------------------ > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. > ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> > PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to > the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT > LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- > <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. > > If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of unsubscribing, you > can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the > home page. > > Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com to receive the digest, which > includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email > > Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com for the No E-Mail option where > you will still be able to read messages on the group and post replies. > > Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com to receive individual e-mails > Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 43265	From: moiragrubb2000	Date: 9/10/2009
Subject: oscar ill

hi all just a quick one to let you all know that my oscar is back to his normal self and chucking his gravel at the other occupants. just like to say thanks to everybody for all help and advice it was greatly appreciated you are a great bunchnthanks again mo

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 43266	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 9/10/2009
Subject: Re: oscar ill

Glad to see he made it through his illness OK. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of moiragrubb2000 Sent: Thursday, September 10, 2009 1:51 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] oscar ill hi all just a quick one to let you all know that my oscar is back to his normal self and chucking his gravel at the other occupants. just like to say thanks to everybody for all help and advice it was greatly appreciated you are a great bunchnthanks again mo

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 43267	From: biG poppa	Date: 9/10/2009
Subject: Re: Malawi's in the wild beutifull colors enjoy

ThanQ Lenny i will too bad there so agrive casue i love to have some an there on sale at petco 3 for 5 --- On Thu, 9/10/09, Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@...> wrote: From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@...> Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Malawi's in the wild beutifull colors enjoy To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Date: Thursday, September 10, 2009, 1:03 PM   If you like that, you should also check out the NatGeo video "Jewel Of The Rift". You can view it for free on YouTube here... http://www.youtube. com/watch? v=9nrPdnzW6eo It's in 10 parts on YouTube, so about an hour long, but if you get the NatGeo Channel, I hear it plays on that on a regular basis. If you have a good video card, monitor and high speed internet, watch it in HQ by clicking the little HQ button on the bottom right and full screen as well. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com [mailto:AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com] On Behalf Of greychildren Sent: Thursday, September 10, 2009 11:27 AM To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com Subject: [AquaticLife] Malawi's in the wild beutifull colors enjoy http://www.dailymot ion.com/relevanc e/search/ cichlid/video/ x1pbc1_malawi- cich lids_animals Hope you guys like this [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 43268	From: Heather	Date: 9/10/2009
Subject: Re: Dear Moderator(s)

Thanks Bill I chose individual but went and checked any way just to make sure I did...yahoo seems to be picking and choosing which ones I get and none are in my spam folder...I guess thats yahoo though lol! Heather --- On Thu, 9/10/09, bill 1433 <warrenprint@...> wrote: From: bill 1433 <warrenprint@...> Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: Dear Moderator(s) To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Date: Thursday, September 10, 2009, 12:11 PM   Hi Heather,   While your over there check that the box for "digest" is left non checked, otherwise you will get your messages in a sort of magazine form, about 10 or 20 at once!   Bill --- On Thu, 9/10/09, Heather <lilredhd1@yahoo. com> wrote: From: Heather <lilredhd1@yahoo. com> Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: Dear Moderator(s) To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com Date: Thursday, September 10, 2009, 11:52 AM  Ya know this is the only post I have actually had come through in my email since joining a few days ago. When I go to the groups site I see there have been lots of posts made but for some reason I am not receiving them...how odd I receive this one of all posts....hahaha! Hopefully yahoo can get itself together and start delivering all the posts to me...in the meantime I guess Ill pop onto the groups web page when I get a chance to read emails. Huge Hugs~Heather http://www.youravon .com/hbroschayt --- On Thu, 9/10/09, kuradi8 <kuradi8@yahoo. com> wrote: From: kuradi8 <kuradi8@yahoo. com> Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Dear Moderator(s) To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com Date: Thursday, September 10, 2009, 9:51 AM                         As I have already said, it's OK, Ray.  Even though you disapprove of my ID and that I only post in bursts when I need advice, I am obviously not a spammer -- which is why you moderators have the approval step.  If you/moderators want to go through the extra step of manually approving each of my posts, that's OK.  It's a little frustrating to add the approval time to my questions and others' answers -- but I appreciate the all of advice I get and can live with the lack of instant gratification. I was just pointing out how it's done at other Yahoo Groups that I belong to and suggested that this Group could run just as smoothly with less stringent moderator control.  It's less work for you and more "conversational" for the rest of us. But really... it's ***OK*** if you don't want to change your policy. Thanks for taking the time to write such an in depth reply.  :o) ~Kai --- In AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com, "sevenspringss" <sevenspringss@ ...> wrote: > > Hello Kai,  In your interests of wanting to see us change the moderated status of the membership, I'm sure you wouldn't mind more input.  I regret that I was unavailable yesterday to participate in these discussions, but I've previewed your status in the meantime.  > > I trust you can understand our preference for keeping the moderations in place, and our reasons for doing so as Lenny and other have outlined.  With going over your status, it wouldn't appear to me that even if we were to have "regular active members" post automatically, it wouldn't seem that you'd be included.  You've only been a member for four months -- since May 9, 2009 -- and while this rather short period as a member may not necessarily preclude one from being considered one of the "regulars," your brief posting has not given us the opportunity to get to comfortably know your motives or ways.  You have not given us the opportunity to get to know you.  I understand your assurances that you wouldn't be a spammer, but we would have to feel the same way about anyone with such a short posting history, whether they were seeking information or giving advice in their messages; I notice you were mainly giving advice -- which was appreciated. > > With your first post (#43093 -- 11:14 AM 5/9/09), having the Subject title of "Antibiotics, " I see you did introduce yourself (using your other User Name -- Kuradi Eit) then went on to give advice.  You were quite active for the first week or so after that, but as the month went by your posts became fewer, appearing about once every 4 or 5 days or so until you stopped abruptly on May 27th with your message # 40518.  You hadn't even stayed one full month as there is no sign of you through at least June 9th.  You haven't posted all August (I hadn't bothered to look for your posts the rest of June or July, but I can't say I recall hearing from you).  You're next message (#40518) was only last Friday on September 4th; where have you been?  I'm not knocking your infrequent posts, but I'm sure you can see that we could hardly call you a regular.  In fact, to ask us to release your moderation would appear to me as being rather bold, almost to the point of being audacious in view of your just getting to be known here.  I think you are asking too much in light of your past brief history.  > > My purpose is not to berate you however, but only to point out to you how anyone not yet very familiar to us would not yet be considered a regular, which you may not have realized from your point of view.  You certainly had the right to ask, even though it may have been quite presumptuous.  In any case, because of other problems we've had in the past (and with the same ongoing problems) with prospective spammers who we constantly have to deal with, we find it best to keep the moderatind process in place.  We don't mind the extra work, as that's part of why we're here, in fact -- even if not all the time -- there is generally at least one of the moderators overseeing things at all times even if it may not seem that way, except when we sleep <g>.  Even then, I've seen Lenny or one of the other moderators "on duty" replying to someone's problems, because I'm sometimes there too at 2:00 AM overseeing things.  > > Yes, there may be some lapses sometimes between messages getting posted, but perhaps the moderator is answering another question during those times, or attending to other Forums/Groups.  I'm on a number of other ones myself and moderate 3 other Groups (you can't expect us to devote our full time here), although I have to say that this Group is the most active by far. -- which makes for good constant sources of new information.  I hope you can excuse the lack of us supplying you with instant gratification, and can understand our reason and necessity for it; I regret your frustrations, but I know you'll find this site worthwhile -- many others here do.  Cordially,  Ray Wetzel, Moderator > > > > > --- In AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com, "kuradi8" <kuradi8@> wrote: > > > > Dear Moderator(s) > > > > I see that you need to approve EVERY message that we submit to be posted.  It's a lot of work for you and the impatient ones among us (me) often get a little frustrated at the lack of instant gratification because we (I) want a quick reply.  I belong to several other Yahoo Groups and they are set up so that the regular active members (of which we seem to have quite a few) can post automatically.  Only newcomers and inactive members need to go through moderator approval. > > > > How do you feel about changing this Group to that sort of a system? > > ~Kai > > > > > > PS - You don't have to post this for everyone to see unless you want their opinions too. > > >                                                   [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] ------------ --------- --------- ------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the home page.  Or e-mail aquaticlife- digest@yahoogrou ps.com to receive the digest, which includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email Or email aquaticlife- nomail@yahoogrou ps.com for the No E-Mail option where you will still be able to read messages on the group and post replies. Or email aquaticlife- normal@yahoogrou ps.com to receive individual e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 43269	From: clandestine662002	Date: 9/10/2009
Subject: Re: Snail issues > Gail's snail

I am now having snail issues as well - but a bit different. My one snail that seemed to be thriving... is now having problems. He doesn't shut his shell with his foot completely. And the other day I found him bobbing in the current from the water filter. I plucked him out and put him in the Betta Bowl and he clung to a plant and the side for the bit, but again he seemed to just float in the water. I assume he is probably dying? I dunno. So for now, he is in my 55 gallon where if he does die, he can be scavenged by my cories or my pictus. Any thoughts? --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, Amber Berglund <arberglund@...> wrote: > > Ahh, with some searching this evening I think I figured out what is > wrong. It is a possible collapsed lung or water filled lung, I'm not > sure if he/she will recover from it on their own or not. I removed it > from the tank like suggested on the forums FAQ and it found it's way > back into the water, so I let it stay there. I will try putting it in a > bowl instead. > > Amber > > Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > > > > > > I know they have the air bladder in their shell that they fill up as > > part of > > their buoyancy control. This is also what allows them to fill it up and > > float around the surface of the tank, sometimes for days or even a > > couple of > > weeks at a time.. and probably how they travel across large bodies of > > water > > using wind and currents.. instead of moving along at a snail's pace (pun > > intended..lol). > > > > All that said, I'm not sure why yours are having issues with this air > > bladder. You know where I'd go for the bestest information about our > > snails.... http://AppleSnail.net <http://AppleSnail.net> Let us know > > here, what they say over there > > or give us a link to your thread. > > > > You could always set up a container for them with only a couple of > > inches of > > water so they are completely submerged and maybe have an island or > > ramp for > > them to crawl up on if they want less water so they can stick their > > snorkel > > out of the water. They do have gills so they should be OK even without > > breathing at the surface, just like labyrinth fish can survive on gill > > function only but I think they just find it easier to take big breaths at > > the surface... especially the snails when filling their air bladder. > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right > > side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On > > Behalf Of Amber Berglund > > Sent: Wednesday, September 09, 2009 5:16 PM > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > Subject: [AquaticLife] Snail issues > > > > I have one or two rather large and older mystery snails who appear to be > > having some sort of issue that I have not heard of yet. > > They are suddenly VERY heavy, and look like a poor turtle when they end up > > upside down and can't tip themselves back over onto their foot instead of > > their "backs". > > Is this just normal for older mystery snails? Is there something I > > should do > > for the snail? I tried setting it up on top of the floating plants but > > it's > > much heavier than the rest of my snails and it won't sit there without > > sinking. > > I put the snail with the most issues on a water covered part of the > > floating > > driftwood so that it can get air if it needs to (most of my snails go > > to the > > surface for air, guess they don't get enough in the water column from the > > plants). > > > > Amber > > > > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 43270	From: kuradi8	Date: 9/10/2009
Subject: A TEST Post -- Feel Free to Ignore

Prompted by Ray's comments, I went into my Groups profiles and settings and poked around. If you go back to the older entries, it does identify me as BOTH "Kuradi Eit" and "kuradi8" underneath. Somehow, "Kuradi Eit" has disappeared and only "kuradi8" remains. I don't know how or why and quite frankly, I really don't care -- as long as I'm still able to participate in my Groups, including this one. :o) Obviously I can. I made a couple of changes and I'm curious to see if it came back. If not, sorry. Deal with it. Either way, it's me. ~Kai (Still not a spammer.) 4:10 --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "sevenspringss" <sevenspringss@...> wrote: > > Hello Kai, > > I see you did introduce yourself (using your other User Name -- Kuradi Eit) > > Cordially, Ray Wetzel, Moderator > > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 43271	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 9/10/2009
Subject: Re: Snail issues > Gail's snail

Both of the things you are seeing are relatively normal things for a Mystery/Apple snail to do. The foot hanging out thing is probably just due to them feeling comfortable in the tank and not feeling the need to lock up tight when snoozing. The floating thing is relatively normal as well. They will sometimes close up with their air bladder/lung filled up with air and float around for days and even a week or more. Maybe they think they are cruising around the world and are shocked to see they are still in the same dang tank when they come out of their cruising mode... but at least he did cruise, or rather took a flight over to the Betta bowl for a short visit. ;-) Now, I may be reading things incorrectly so if he is really looking like he is sick, disregard the above. Does he act normal sometimes too? If he does, then the above is probably accurate. You can read through all the info, care sheets and FAQ's on http://AppleSnail.net for more info about some of the quirky things that snails sometimes do and the things you need to be on the lookout for. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of clandestine662002 Sent: Thursday, September 10, 2009 2:53 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Snail issues > Gail's snail I am now having snail issues as well - but a bit different. My one snail that seemed to be thriving... is now having problems. He doesn't shut his shell with his foot completely. And the other day I found him bobbing in the current from the water filter. I plucked him out and put him in the Betta Bowl and he clung to a plant and the side for the bit, but again he seemed to just float in the water. I assume he is probably dying? I dunno. So for now, he is in my 55 gallon where if he does die, he can be scavenged by my cories or my pictus. Any thoughts? --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, Amber Berglund <arberglund@...> wrote: > > Ahh, with some searching this evening I think I figured out what is > wrong. It is a possible collapsed lung or water filled lung, I'm not > sure if he/she will recover from it on their own or not. I removed it > from the tank like suggested on the forums FAQ and it found it's way > back into the water, so I let it stay there. I will try putting it in > a bowl instead. > > Amber > > Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > > > > > > I know they have the air bladder in their shell that they fill up as > > part of their buoyancy control. This is also what allows them to > > fill it up and float around the surface of the tank, sometimes for > > days or even a couple of weeks at a time.. and probably how they > > travel across large bodies of water using wind and currents.. > > instead of moving along at a snail's pace (pun intended..lol). > > > > All that said, I'm not sure why yours are having issues with this > > air bladder. You know where I'd go for the bestest information about > > our snails.... http://AppleSnail.net <http://AppleSnail.net> Let us > > know here, what they say over there or give us a link to your > > thread. > > > > You could always set up a container for them with only a couple of > > inches of water so they are completely submerged and maybe have an > > island or ramp for them to crawl up on if they want less water so > > they can stick their snorkel out of the water. They do have gills so > > they should be OK even without breathing at the surface, just like > > labyrinth fish can survive on gill function only but I think they > > just find it easier to take big breaths at the surface... especially > > the snails when filling their air bladder. > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> (Links to any articles referenced in > > above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under > > Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On Behalf Of Amber Berglund > > Sent: Wednesday, September 09, 2009 5:16 PM > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > Subject: [AquaticLife] Snail issues > > > > I have one or two rather large and older mystery snails who appear > > to be having some sort of issue that I have not heard of yet. > > They are suddenly VERY heavy, and look like a poor turtle when they > > end up upside down and can't tip themselves back over onto their > > foot instead of their "backs". > > Is this just normal for older mystery snails? Is there something I > > should do for the snail? I tried setting it up on top of the > > floating plants but it's much heavier than the rest of my snails and > > it won't sit there without sinking. > > I put the snail with the most issues on a water covered part of the > > floating driftwood so that it can get air if it needs to (most of my > > snails go to the surface for air, guess they don't get enough in the > > water column from the plants). > > > > Amber

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 43272	From: Cee Jaye	Date: 9/10/2009
Subject: Re: Oscar Question - (moved) (additional questions too)

Yup, he is definitely the only fish:) Ok, so in acclimating him slowly, I can remove a cup or so of water from the bucket, and add a cup of "new" water? Dumping the water removed from the bucket down the drain. . . I just have the "well" water. . . He hasn't always been in this "yucky" water, only for the last 6-7 MOS (I know its still a long time) before that I made sure that I took care to keep his water cleaner, etc, but I haven't been able to get up there as much recently. Plus, they had recently began feeding him fish, which of course, makes the water yuckier, with no changing, etc. I will change his water slowly, after 2 or so hrs of adding water to his bucket. & removing equal amount each time, will he be acclimated? Actually his tank is small (20 or 30gal) & I am in the process of getting him a new tank. Which, when I do, I will be sure to get advice on the switch first!! So that could be the next thing ya'll tell me if ya can:) I am working on searching one up for him & have been asking around. . . See, I had a 55 gal for him, but it was in storage & I lost that a few MOS ago:(( so I have to work on replacing it now. What do you recommend for feeding/feeding schedule for him? The one I had as a teen, we fed him goldfish. I don't know if that is an appropriate food source for them. . I thought there was something wrong with that? I fed him pellets & he ate those fine. But my ex- & his girlfriend started feeding him fish. I guess he would still take pellets. Are they adequate? Thanks so much for all the help!! Tara -------Original Message------- From: sevenspringss Date: 9/10/2009 3:05:20 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Oscar Question - (moved) Ordinarily, especially as he'll be the only fish in the new tank (he thoroughly used to the old water he's in), and his old water is not carrying a disease, it's preferable to use as much of his water as you can -- as you have brought along -- provided his water parameters are safe. As you don't have test kits, we have to assume the worst case scenario and figure on his water being adverse to the tap water in pH (which it most probably is anyway), and has levels of ammonium, nitrite and nitrate -- even if it doesn t -- just to play it safe. When acclimating him then, any water that you remove from his bucket while doing this should be discarded down the drain and not added to the tank. Okay, I see that the bucket is a 5 gallon one -- that'a about the "standard" size. I suddenly see you mentioning "well water," whereas I hadn't seen that before. If you've stated such, I must have missed it. If this is your own private well water, you needn't use the Prime -- unless the amount of his bucket water you've already added to the tank is considerable, but being only a 5 gallon bucket I find that improbable. Please know though, that your well water could have at least the same pH as your tap water, if not higher if it runs through limestone deposits. Then too, it could be on the acidic side if it's not an especially deep well. If you feel "safer" using well water, then use half well water and half tap water, with Prime (half the dosage), since you don't have a pH test kit. keep up with agitating his water and proceed the acclamation, dumping a pint or pint and a half every 10 to 15 minutes, allowing him to get use to this mix slowly. Do this for up to 2 hours in this case -- again treating the situation as though it were at extremes (even though it may not be, but we can't know that) -- if you have the time. Otherwise, at LEAST an hour; preferable 1 1/2 hours or longer, to the 2 hours. Let us know how you make out with him. He should be fine, especially the longer you take acclimating him, with the least but practical amount of water you change out each time. I really do suspect that with maintaining him in the same water for 1 1/2 years with little or no maintenance, nor partial water changes, that his pH HAS to be at least 6.0 or lower, so go slow. BTW, how big of a tank are you putting him in? Ray --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Cee Jaye" <CeeJayee@...> wrote: > > Thank you very much for the information & help too:) I appreciate it. I didn > t expect to suddenly move him like that . . :( > I don't have a test kit right now. . . & now I am worried about ph:(( I don > t want to loose him. . . > The only think I can hope is that "well" water is different than tap (which > I am sure it must be) & hopefully will not be as much of a shock for him. I > am going to ask my ex to see if he knows where the test kit I had was. . I > had all that stuff;( > The bucket is about 5 gal, & it prob has about 4 gal in (maybe a little > less). I have been taking a cup & pouring his water several times now & then > to "mix" up the air/water. > Tara > > -------Original Message------- > > From: sevenspringss > Date: 9/10/2009 1:44:25 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Oscar Question - (moved) > > Tara, If it's at all possible, put an airstone (running) in his bucket to > provide a turnover of the water, to enable a better transfer of oxygen. I > hope you have aquarium water test kits (please let us know). As your > ex-husband had only been topping off the tank when the water got low and > really didn't do any maintenance, the Oscar's water in the bucket is most > probably quite acidic and probably high in nitrates; it may even have some > ammonium and/or nitrite. Most water companies provide water with a pH of > over 7.0, usually in the vicinity of pH 7.4 to 7.6 (but could be higher > depending on local conditions). If this Oscar is put directly into this > probably much higher pH (from most likely a pH of 6.0 -- or LOWER), it will > suffer pH shock. You've already added some of his bucket water to the tank, > as I read. If there is any ammonium in his water, this will be released as > toxic ammonia as it mixes with the much higher pH tap water; actually, the > more of his bucket water you add to this higher pH tap water, the more toxic > this mix will become -- IF it now has ammonium. You need to test his water > for ammonia, nitrite, nitrate and pH and test the tap water for pH. > > If his bucket water has no ammonia (ammonium, when the pH is below 7.0), it > s safe to add the Oscar and his water to the tank, with certain provisions > as long as you do it SLOWLY. Of the four water conditioner use the PRIME. > You will need to use this to neutralize the chloramine in the tap water, but > at the same time this product will also take care of any ammonium that might > be in his water when adding an additional amount, rendering this ammonium > non-toxic. Knowing the amount (if any) of ammonium in his water will give > you some idea of how much extra Prime you need to use. > > Now, if his pH is much different than that of the tap water, you'll need to > acclimate him over to the new water slowly, to prevent pH shock. The wider > the difference between these two pH's, the more time you'll need to take in > adjusting him over. You can do this by removing (and if not containing > ammonium, nitrite or nitrate -- this last one especially if it's only at 40 > PPM or below), a small portion of his water and adding an equal amount of > the tank water (at the same temperature) to his bucket a number of times. > As he'll be the sole occupant of this tank, you may add his bucket discard > water to his tank -- if it doesn't contain ammonium, nitrite or higher > levels of nitrate much above 40 ppm, otherwise just discard down the drain > > I don't know how large this bucket is, you haven't said, but if it's a 5 > gallon bucket for instance, with about 4 gallons of water in it, you can > change out about a pint and a half to a quart of water each time, every 10 > or 15 minutes for about 2 hours. This would be if his water is much > different than the tap water, as the length of this acclimation process > depends directly on how similar or how different these two waters are. If > there's less of a difference, you can cut the water exchange intervals back > to every 10 minutes -- for about an hour and a half. If this difference is > greater, you'll need to take more time. This will ensure that he gets used > to these new water parameters slowly. > > If you're still not sure how to proceed, just run it by us after giving us > all the test result numbers and we'll advise you from here. Oh, and if you > don't have an airpump and airstone, just keep scooping his bucket water up > with a cup and pouring it back in (from a height, so as to agitate his water > actively) every 5 minutes or so as you acclimate him. Ray > > > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Cee Jaye" <CeeJayee@> wrote: > > > > I have a question, I moved yesterday evening & have an Oscar. He is > > approximately 1 & 1/2yrs old (don't know if that makes a difference;) I > have > > had him since the size of about a 1/2 dollar. . . > > > > My question is this. . . He has been at my ex-husband's house & they didn > t > > really do any "maintenance" . . . Just added water when it got low & fed > him > > . . > > > > I put him in a bucket to move him with as much of his old water as > possible. > > I set up his tank this am & have the filter running (which I cleaned up) > I > > have things like stress coat, novaqua, amquel, prime, etc. Should I add > > those to the water & let it run awhile before adding him? I put some of > his > > old water into the tank & then enough new water to run the filter to get > it > > going & I added some new water to his bucket. > > > > When do you think it would be ok to go ahead & add him to the tank? I have > > him a long while & really do not want him to die on me. > > Thanks > > Tara > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > > > > ------------------------------------ > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. > ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> > PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to > the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT > LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- > <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. > > If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of unsubscribing, you > can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the > home page. > > Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com to receive the digest, which > includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email > > Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com for the No E-Mail option where > you will still be able to read messages on the group and post replies. > > Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com to receive individual e-mails > Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > ------------------------------------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the home page. Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com to receive the digest, which includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com for the No E-Mail option where you will still be able to read messages on the group and post replies. Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com to receive individual e-mails Yahoo! Groups Links [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 43273	From: Cee Jaye	Date: 9/10/2009
Subject: Re: Oscar Question - (moved)

I added some Prime to the tank. I will get the kit as soon as possible & test the waters. He is a fabulous fish & I sure would hate for him to die. The reason I chose to get one again, was I had one as a teen & really enjoyed "him". . . I think they have a lot of personality!! So are there ways to tell a male from a female?? LOL THANK YOU so much for your help!!! I appreciate it! -------Original Message------- From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny Date: 9/10/2009 2:53:48 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Oscar Question - (moved) Since you are on a well water system, hopefully you do not have chlorine/chloramine in your water so you would not have to use a dechlor but using Prime in the beginning would be helpful at least until we are sure that your tank is properly "Cycled" (The Nitrogen Cycle) and that we know what your water parameters are like. I see that Ray has also replied and he covers a lot of things I did not cover, or covers them in different ways. I'm wondering about the "shock it" treatment to your well. I'm not sure why they would have to do that but maybe one of the well owners out here can answer that. I know about using a shock chemical treatment in a swimming pool but I'm not sure how that would work in a well. I did do a quick Google and saw that it entails using a heavy dose of chlorine when a well system has been contaminated with bacteria. http://www.maine.gov/dhhs/eng/water/Templates/Sections/Field%20Services/well Shockingfactsheet.htm I'm not sure how long this process lasts and/or if there would be residual chlorine in your water so hopefully you used the Prime on the tank water, otherwise if there was chlorine in the well water, any good bacteria that might have survived your filter cleaning would certainly be killed off with the chlorinated water. If the shock treatment has worn out and there was no residual chlorine, the bacteria would still only live for so long without a food source (fish urine, ammonia from decaying detritus, etc.) so you will still need to test your tank daily after adding your Oscar to make sure you do not have cycling issues. Instead of just getting a pH test kit, you can get a complete Master Test Kit for $15 - $17 from Walmart.com, with free shipping to your local store. That's the best bargain on the internet right now, AFAIK. Here's the links... http://www.walmart.com/catalog/product.do?product_id=3635493 http://www.walmart.com/catalog/product.do?product_id=3635399 Each kit is slightly inadequate. The top link to the API kit includes pH, ammonia, nitrite, nitrate but does not test for GH & KH (General Hardness & Carbonate Hardness). The 2nd link is to the Tetratest-Laborette kit and includes pH, ammonia, nitrite, GH, KH and CO2 but does not include the Nitrate test kit. API does sell a separate Nitrate kit and/or a separate GH/KH test kit so depending on which brand you choose above, you could get the added on kit and still have a full master kit for under $25.00. So to recap, yes, use the Prime on the tank before starting the acclimation process. Add a pinch of salt per 10G to help prevent nitrite poisoning if you get a nitrite spike. Yes, good old fashioned plain table salt (NaCL = Sodium Chloride) is fine... that stuff they sell as "aquarium salt" is the exact same thing for about 10 times the price. Even if all you have is Iodized Salt, that's still OK. Iodide is at such a small level and will not affect aquarium fish and only at higher levels, in ponds, where the sunlight affects the Iodide, does it become a possible issue. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Cee Jaye Sent: Thursday, September 10, 2009 12:46 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Oscar Question - (moved) Thank you for all the info - I didn't "thoroughly" clean the filter, but rinsed some of it out, as it was barely running water through. I didn't do anything to the tank water yet, as I wanted to see the recommendation first. Regular table salt? I have not added him to the tank yet, & still have him in the bucket, he's ok but I am worried about him being in there. . The move unfortunately was sudden:( This is a well system, so I am not sure how different it is from city systems - I know the water has been tested. It was treated a month or so ago, with shock it or something?? But there is not filtration system on the "well" water at this time. I do not have my pH test kit as I need to get a new one - I couldn't find the one I had there with the fish at my ex's house. Thank you for all the helpful info! Tara -------Original Message------- From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny Date: 9/10/2009 1:19:05 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Oscar Question - (moved) I wish you would have asked us before you made the move but we'll help as Best we can now. When you cleaned the filter, how did you clean it? If you cleaned it Thoroughly, then you also may have killed off all of the good nitrifying Bacteria that lives mostly in the filter media. This means you will likely Have Nitrogen Cycle issues like on a newly set up tank. When you set up the tank again, which dechlor product did you use to treat Your tap water? Since you have Prime, I would use it as your dechlor product for the next Month or two and then you can switch to a lower cost dechlor. DO NOT use All the other stuff you have. You will still have to go through the Nitrogen cycle and do frequent PWC's (partial water changes) to keep the Ammonia and nitrite levels down to reasonably safe levels but the Prime will Help in making the ammonia less toxic. Add a pinch of salt per 10G to help Prevent nitrite poisoning when you get your nitrite spike. Do you have a Master Test Kit for testing the water for things like ammonia, Nitrite, nitrate, pH, etc.? Let us know which tests you do have, if any. If you did use a dechlor on the tank water, then you can start SLOWLY acclimating him to the new water since he has lived in the funky water for so long. It would help to know the water parameters of the water he was living in and the new water but absent that, you should probably set up a drip line to add tank water to his bucket. Here's a page about acclimating fish which includes this method of acclimation which starts about 1/2 way down on the page. http://www.csupomona.edu/~jskoga/Aquariums/Acclimation.html Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Cee Jaye Sent: Thursday, September 10, 2009 11:43 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Oscar Question - (moved) I have a question, I moved yesterday evening & have an Oscar. He is approximately 1 & 1/2yrs old (don't know if that makes a difference;) I have had him since the size of about a 1/2 dollar. . . My question is this. . . He has been at my ex-husband's house & they didn't really do any "maintenance" . . . Just added water when it got low & fed him . . I put him in a bucket to move him with as much of his old water as possible. I set up his tank this am & have the filter running (which I cleaned up). I have things like stress coat, novaqua, amquel, prime, etc. Should I add those to the water & let it run awhile before adding him? I put some of his old water into the tank & then enough new water to run the filter to get it going & I added some new water to his bucket. When do you think it would be ok to go ahead & add him to the tank? I have him a long while & really do not want him to die on me. Thanks Tara ------------------------------------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the home page. Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com to receive the digest, which includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com for the No E-Mail option where you will still be able to read messages on the group and post replies. Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com to receive individual e-mails Yahoo! Groups Links [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] ------------------------------------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the home page. Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com to receive the digest, which includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com for the No E-Mail option where you will still be able to read messages on the group and post replies. Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com to receive individual e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links ------------------------------------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the home page. Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com to receive the digest, which includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com for the No E-Mail option where you will still be able to read messages on the group and post replies. Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com to receive individual e-mails Yahoo! Groups Links . [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 43274	From: bill 1433	Date: 9/10/2009
Subject: How Much Carbon?

I recently decided to use carbon but according to the directions on the box, it's telling me to use a 1/2 cup, 8 Tablespoons per 10 gallons! At this rate I would not have enough room for any other filter material in the box. The filter in question is an Aqua Clear 50 (200). The replacement carbon packet comes to 150 grams. Does anyone know what this would work out to by tablespoon or cup size as I don't have a gram scale for weight. Again, by following the box directions from AP, I would be adding 1 1/2 cups of carbon to the power filter! NOT! Bill

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 43275	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 9/10/2009
Subject: Re: Oscar Question - (moved) (additional questions too)

I like to feed my fish a variety of foods, and you'll definitely want to get your oscar a bigger tank (even bigger than 55 gallon would be better as they are dirty fish as I'm sure you know already, LOL). Fish are okay to feed them but I feel it's safer to feed them other live "critters" such as meal worms and crickets, as fish can often carry a disease especially cheap "feeder" goldfish. It is fine to mix pellets with live foods as well as frozen foods if you can get your hands on some (frozen brine shrimp, and blood worms are often good ones, mysis shrimp will probably be too small for your oscar unless "he" is still small). 2 or so hours of adding/removing your tank/well water should be sufficient in acclimating him, just watch to see how he is acting and if he seems stressed perhaps give him some more time to acclimate to the new water. Oscars are usually pretty hardy though and you shouldn't have too many problems acclimating him, just depends on if he was in good health when you picked him up from your Ex's. Amber Cee Jaye wrote: > > > Yup, he is definitely the only fish:) > > Ok, so in acclimating him slowly, I can remove a cup or so of water > from the > bucket, and add a cup of "new" water? Dumping the water removed from the > bucket down the drain. . . > I just have the "well" water. . . > He hasn't always been in this "yucky" water, only for the last 6-7 MOS (I > know its still a long time) before that I made sure that I took care > to keep > his water cleaner, etc, but I haven't been able to get up there as much > recently. Plus, they had recently began feeding him fish, which of course, > makes the water yuckier, with no changing, etc. > I will change his water slowly, after 2 or so hrs of adding water to his > bucket. & removing equal amount each time, will he be acclimated? > Actually his tank is small (20 or 30gal) & I am in the process of getting > him a new tank. Which, when I do, I will be sure to get advice on the > switch > first!! So that could be the next thing ya'll tell me if ya can:) I am > working on searching one up for him & have been asking around. . . See, I > had a 55 gal for him, but it was in storage & I lost that a few MOS ago:(( > so I have to work on replacing it now. > What do you recommend for feeding/feeding schedule for him? > The one I had as a teen, we fed him goldfish. I don't know if that is an > appropriate food source for them. . I thought there was something wrong > with that? I fed him pellets & he ate those fine. But my ex- & his > girlfriend started feeding him fish. > I guess he would still take pellets. Are they adequate? > Thanks so much for all the help!! > Tara > > -------Original Message------- > > From: sevenspringss > Date: 9/10/2009 3:05:20 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Oscar Question - (moved) > > Ordinarily, especially as he'll be the only fish in the new tank (he > thoroughly used to the old water he's in), and his old water is not > carrying > a disease, it's preferable to use as much of his water as you can -- > as you > have brought along -- provided his water parameters are safe. As you don't > have test kits, we have to assume the worst case scenario and figure > on his > water being adverse to the tap water in pH (which it most probably is > anyway), and has levels of ammonium, nitrite and nitrate -- even if it > doesn > t -- just to play it safe. When acclimating him then, any water that you > remove from his bucket while doing this should be discarded down the drain > and not added to the tank. > > Okay, I see that the bucket is a 5 gallon one -- that'a about the > "standard" > size. I suddenly see you mentioning "well water," whereas I hadn't seen > that before. If you've stated such, I must have missed it. If this is your > own private well water, you needn't use the Prime -- unless the amount of > his bucket water you've already added to the tank is considerable, but > being > only a 5 gallon bucket I find that improbable. Please know though, that > your well water could have at least the same pH as your tap water, if not > higher if it runs through limestone deposits. Then too, it could be on the > acidic side if it's not an especially deep well. If you feel "safer" using > well water, then use half well water and half tap water, with Prime (half > the dosage), since you don't have a pH test kit. > > keep up with agitating his water and proceed the acclamation, dumping > a pint > or pint and a half every 10 to 15 minutes, allowing him to get use to this > mix slowly. Do this for up to 2 hours in this case -- again treating the > situation as though it were at extremes (even though it may not be, but we > can't know that) -- if you have the time. Otherwise, at LEAST an hour; > preferable 1 1/2 hours or longer, to the 2 hours. Let us know how you make > out with him. He should be fine, especially the longer you take > acclimating > him, with the least but practical amount of water you change out each > time. > I really do suspect that with maintaining him in the same water for 1 1/2 > years with little or no maintenance, nor partial water changes, that > his pH > HAS to be at least 6.0 or lower, so go slow. BTW, how big of a tank > are you > putting him in? Ray > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>, "Cee Jaye" <CeeJayee@...> wrote: > > > > Thank you very much for the information & help too:) I appreciate it. I > didn > > t expect to suddenly move him like that . . :( > > I don't have a test kit right now. . . & now I am worried about ph:(( I > don > > t want to loose him. . . > > The only think I can hope is that "well" water is different than tap > (which > > I am sure it must be) & hopefully will not be as much of a shock for > him. > I > > am going to ask my ex to see if he knows where the test kit I had > was. . > I > > had all that stuff;( > > The bucket is about 5 gal, & it prob has about 4 gal in (maybe a little > > less). I have been taking a cup & pouring his water several times now & > then > > to "mix" up the air/water. > > Tara > > > > -------Original Message------- > > > > From: sevenspringss > > Date: 9/10/2009 1:44:25 PM > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Oscar Question - (moved) > > > > Tara, If it's at all possible, put an airstone (running) in his > bucket to > > provide a turnover of the water, to enable a better transfer of > oxygen. I > > hope you have aquarium water test kits (please let us know). As your > > ex-husband had only been topping off the tank when the water got low > and > > really didn't do any maintenance, the Oscar's water in the bucket is > most > > probably quite acidic and probably high in nitrates; it may even > have some > > ammonium and/or nitrite. Most water companies provide water with a > pH of > > over 7.0, usually in the vicinity of pH 7.4 to 7.6 (but could be higher > > depending on local conditions). If this Oscar is put directly into this > > probably much higher pH (from most likely a pH of 6.0 -- or LOWER), it > will > > suffer pH shock. You've already added some of his bucket water to the > tank, > > as I read. If there is any ammonium in his water, this will be released > as > > toxic ammonia as it mixes with the much higher pH tap water; > actually, the > > more of his bucket water you add to this higher pH tap water, the more > toxic > > this mix will become -- IF it now has ammonium. You need to test his > water > > for ammonia, nitrite, nitrate and pH and test the tap water for pH. > > > > If his bucket water has no ammonia (ammonium, when the pH is below 7.0), > it > > s safe to add the Oscar and his water to the tank, with certain > provisions > > > as long as you do it SLOWLY. Of the four water conditioner use the > PRIME. > > You will need to use this to neutralize the chloramine in the tap water, > but > > at the same time this product will also take care of any ammonium that > might > > be in his water when adding an additional amount, rendering this > ammonium > > non-toxic. Knowing the amount (if any) of ammonium in his water will > give > > you some idea of how much extra Prime you need to use. > > > > Now, if his pH is much different than that of the tap water, you'll need > to > > acclimate him over to the new water slowly, to prevent pH shock. The > wider > > the difference between these two pH's, the more time you'll need to take > in > > adjusting him over. You can do this by removing (and if not containing > > ammonium, nitrite or nitrate -- this last one especially if it's only at > 40 > > PPM or below), a small portion of his water and adding an equal > amount of > > the tank water (at the same temperature) to his bucket a number of > times. > > As he'll be the sole occupant of this tank, you may add his bucket > discard > > water to his tank -- if it doesn't contain ammonium, nitrite or higher > > levels of nitrate much above 40 ppm, otherwise just discard down the > drain > > > > > I don't know how large this bucket is, you haven't said, but if it's > a 5 > > gallon bucket for instance, with about 4 gallons of water in it, you > can > > change out about a pint and a half to a quart of water each time, > every 10 > > or 15 minutes for about 2 hours. This would be if his water is much > > different than the tap water, as the length of this acclimation process > > depends directly on how similar or how different these two waters > are. If > > there's less of a difference, you can cut the water exchange intervals > back > > to every 10 minutes -- for about an hour and a half. If this difference > is > > greater, you'll need to take more time. This will ensure that he gets > used > > to these new water parameters slowly. > > > > If you're still not sure how to proceed, just run it by us after > giving us > > all the test result numbers and we'll advise you from here. Oh, and if > you > > don't have an airpump and airstone, just keep scooping his bucket > water up > > with a cup and pouring it back in (from a height, so as to agitate his > water > > actively) every 5 minutes or so as you acclimate him. Ray > > > > > > > > > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>, "Cee Jaye" <CeeJayee@> wrote: > > > > > > I have a question, I moved yesterday evening & have an Oscar. He is > > > approximately 1 & 1/2yrs old (don't know if that makes a > difference;) I > > have > > > had him since the size of about a 1/2 dollar. . . > > > > > > My question is this. . . He has been at my ex-husband's house & they > didn > > t > > > really do any "maintenance" . . . Just added water when it got low > & fed > > him > > > . . > > > > > > I put him in a bucket to move him with as much of his old water as > > possible. > > > I set up his tank this am & have the filter running (which I > cleaned up) > > > I > > > have things like stress coat, novaqua, amquel, prime, etc. Should > I add > > > those to the water & let it run awhile before adding him? I put > some of > > his > > > old water into the tank & then enough new water to run the filter > to get > > it > > > going & I added some new water to his bucket. > > > > > > When do you think it would be ok to go ahead & add him to the tank? I > have > > > him a long while & really do not want him to die on me. > > > Thanks > > > Tara > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > > > > > > > > > > ------------------------------------ > > > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, > Thank You. > > ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , > .·´¯`·..><((((º> > > PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT > important to > > the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the > SUBJECT > > LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- > > <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. > > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. > > > > If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of > unsubscribing, you > > can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My Membership" > on the > > home page. > > > > Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:aquaticlife-digest%40yahoogroups.com> to receive the digest, > which > > includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email > > > > Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:aquaticlife-nomail%40yahoogroups.com> for the No E-Mail option > where > > you will still be able to read messages on the group and post replies. > > > > Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:aquaticlife-normal%40yahoogroups.com> to receive individual > e-mails > > Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > > > > ------------------------------------ > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank > You. > ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> > PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to > the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the > SUBJECT > LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- > <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. > > If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of unsubscribing, you > can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the > home page. > > Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:aquaticlife-digest%40yahoogroups.com> to receive the digest, which > includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email > > Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:aquaticlife-nomail%40yahoogroups.com> for the No E-Mail option > where > you will still be able to read messages on the group and post replies. > > Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:aquaticlife-normal%40yahoogroups.com> to receive individual > e-mails > Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 43276	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 9/10/2009
Subject: Re: How Much Carbon?

I think the Aqua clear filters tend to have carbon packets that are useable by all their filters, right? One size fits all I thought, but I could be wrong. If I'm right though my carbon "bag" that came with the filter was easily more than 1 1/2 cups of carbon, I'd have to say it was more like 2 cups or so. I never measured it but I'm pretty sure it was more than plenty. Perhaps their "recommendation" is wrong? Seems like a pretty high amount of carbon to be "needed" for a tank to me. Amber bill 1433 wrote: > > > I recently decided to use carbon but according to > the directions on the box, it's telling me to use a 1/2 cup, > 8 Tablespoons per 10 gallons! At this rate I would not have enough > room for any other filter material in the box. > > The filter in question is an Aqua Clear 50 (200). The replacement > carbon packet comes to 150 grams. Does anyone know what this > would work out to by tablespoon or cup size as I don't have a gram > scale for weight. Again, by following the box directions from AP, I > would be adding 1 1/2 cups of carbon to the power filter! NOT! > > Bill > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 43277	From: Cee Jaye	Date: 9/10/2009
Subject: Re: Oscar Question - (moved) (additional questions too)

Thanks for the reply, too, Amber;) I have been VERY lucky with my guy!! I got (what I assume:) a healthy fish when I bought & he has dealt with his conditions well! I am so glad to have him back!! I hope that all will go well & he will make an adjustment & I can get back to getting him used to me & paying attention to him the way I want:) Wow! LOL I didn't know people fed them crickets! :) I will definitely add him some because I get some for the turtles;) He's good sized. . . From reading on the net, I am guessing he is close to the average size for his age, but I think it is hindered some by his tank & I can't wait to get him a new one!!:)) I'd guess he is a good 7-8" but not positive on that. May be closer to 7. Thanks! Tara -------Original Message------- From: Amber Berglund Date: 9/10/2009 5:28:20 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: Oscar Question - (moved) (additional questions too) I like to feed my fish a variety of foods, and you'll definitely want to get your oscar a bigger tank (even bigger than 55 gallon would be better as they are dirty fish as I'm sure you know already, LOL). Fish are okay to feed them but I feel it's safer to feed them other live "critters" such as meal worms and crickets, as fish can often carry a disease especially cheap "feeder" goldfish. It is fine to mix pellets with live foods as well as frozen foods if you can get your hands on some (frozen brine shrimp, and blood worms are often good ones, mysis shrimp will probably be too small for your oscar unless "he" is still small). 2 or so hours of adding/removing your tank/well water should be sufficient in acclimating him, just watch to see how he is acting and if he seems stressed perhaps give him some more time to acclimate to the new water. Oscars are usually pretty hardy though and you shouldn't have too many problems acclimating him, just depends on if he was in good health when you picked him up from your Ex's. Amber Cee Jaye wrote: > > > Yup, he is definitely the only fish:) > > Ok, so in acclimating him slowly, I can remove a cup or so of water > from the > bucket, and add a cup of "new" water? Dumping the water removed from the > bucket down the drain. . . > I just have the "well" water. . . > He hasn't always been in this "yucky" water, only for the last 6-7 MOS (I > know its still a long time) before that I made sure that I took care > to keep > his water cleaner, etc, but I haven't been able to get up there as much > recently. Plus, they had recently began feeding him fish, which of course, > makes the water yuckier, with no changing, etc. > I will change his water slowly, after 2 or so hrs of adding water to his > bucket. & removing equal amount each time, will he be acclimated? > Actually his tank is small (20 or 30gal) & I am in the process of getting > him a new tank. Which, when I do, I will be sure to get advice on the > switch > first!! So that could be the next thing ya'll tell me if ya can:) I am > working on searching one up for him & have been asking around. . . See, I > had a 55 gal for him, but it was in storage & I lost that a few MOS ago:(( > so I have to work on replacing it now. > What do you recommend for feeding/feeding schedule for him? > The one I had as a teen, we fed him goldfish. I don't know if that is an > appropriate food source for them. . I thought there was something wrong > with that? I fed him pellets & he ate those fine. But my ex- & his > girlfriend started feeding him fish. > I guess he would still take pellets. Are they adequate? > Thanks so much for all the help!! > Tara > > -------Original Message------- > > From: sevenspringss > Date: 9/10/2009 3:05:20 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Oscar Question - (moved) > > Ordinarily, especially as he'll be the only fish in the new tank (he > thoroughly used to the old water he's in), and his old water is not > carrying > a disease, it's preferable to use as much of his water as you can -- > as you > have brought along -- provided his water parameters are safe. As you don't > have test kits, we have to assume the worst case scenario and figure > on his > water being adverse to the tap water in pH (which it most probably is > anyway), and has levels of ammonium, nitrite and nitrate -- even if it > doesn > t -- just to play it safe. When acclimating him then, any water that you > remove from his bucket while doing this should be discarded down the drain > and not added to the tank. > > Okay, I see that the bucket is a 5 gallon one -- that'a about the > "standard" > size. I suddenly see you mentioning "well water," whereas I hadn't seen > that before. If you've stated such, I must have missed it. If this is your > own private well water, you needn't use the Prime -- unless the amount of > his bucket water you've already added to the tank is considerable, but > being > only a 5 gallon bucket I find that improbable. Please know though, that > your well water could have at least the same pH as your tap water, if not > higher if it runs through limestone deposits. Then too, it could be on the > acidic side if it's not an especially deep well. If you feel "safer" using > well water, then use half well water and half tap water, with Prime (half > the dosage), since you don't have a pH test kit. > > keep up with agitating his water and proceed the acclamation, dumping > a pint > or pint and a half every 10 to 15 minutes, allowing him to get use to this > mix slowly. Do this for up to 2 hours in this case -- again treating the > situation as though it were at extremes (even though it may not be, but we > can't know that) -- if you have the time. Otherwise, at LEAST an hour; > preferable 1 1/2 hours or longer, to the 2 hours. Let us know how you make > out with him. He should be fine, especially the longer you take > acclimating > him, with the least but practical amount of water you change out each > time. > I really do suspect that with maintaining him in the same water for 1 1/2 > years with little or no maintenance, nor partial water changes, that > his pH > HAS to be at least 6.0 or lower, so go slow. BTW, how big of a tank > are you > putting him in? Ray > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>, "Cee Jaye" <CeeJayee@...> wrote: > > > > Thank you very much for the information & help too:) I appreciate it. I > didn > > t expect to suddenly move him like that . . :( > > I don't have a test kit right now. . . & now I am worried about ph:(( I > don > > t want to loose him. . . > > The only think I can hope is that "well" water is different than tap > (which > > I am sure it must be) & hopefully will not be as much of a shock for > him. > I > > am going to ask my ex to see if he knows where the test kit I had > was. . > I > > had all that stuff;( > > The bucket is about 5 gal, & it prob has about 4 gal in (maybe a little > > less). I have been taking a cup & pouring his water several times now & > then > > to "mix" up the air/water. > > Tara > > > > -------Original Message------- > > > > From: sevenspringss > > Date: 9/10/2009 1:44:25 PM > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Oscar Question - (moved) > > > > Tara, If it's at all possible, put an airstone (running) in his > bucket to > > provide a turnover of the water, to enable a better transfer of > oxygen. I > > hope you have aquarium water test kits (please let us know). As your > > ex-husband had only been topping off the tank when the water got low > and > > really didn't do any maintenance, the Oscar's water in the bucket is > most > > probably quite acidic and probably high in nitrates; it may even > have some > > ammonium and/or nitrite. Most water companies provide water with a > pH of > > over 7.0, usually in the vicinity of pH 7.4 to 7.6 (but could be higher > > depending on local conditions). If this Oscar is put directly into this > > probably much higher pH (from most likely a pH of 6.0 -- or LOWER), it > will > > suffer pH shock. You've already added some of his bucket water to the > tank, > > as I read. If there is any ammonium in his water, this will be released > as > > toxic ammonia as it mixes with the much higher pH tap water; > actually, the > > more of his bucket water you add to this higher pH tap water, the more > toxic > > this mix will become -- IF it now has ammonium. You need to test his > water > > for ammonia, nitrite, nitrate and pH and test the tap water for pH. > > > > If his bucket water has no ammonia (ammonium, when the pH is below 7.0), > it > > s safe to add the Oscar and his water to the tank, with certain > provisions > > > as long as you do it SLOWLY. Of the four water conditioner use the > PRIME. > > You will need to use this to neutralize the chloramine in the tap water, > but > > at the same time this product will also take care of any ammonium that > might > > be in his water when adding an additional amount, rendering this > ammonium > > non-toxic. Knowing the amount (if any) of ammonium in his water will > give > > you some idea of how much extra Prime you need to use. > > > > Now, if his pH is much different than that of the tap water, you'll need > to > > acclimate him over to the new water slowly, to prevent pH shock. The > wider > > the difference between these two pH's, the more time you'll need to take > in > > adjusting him over. You can do this by removing (and if not containing > > ammonium, nitrite or nitrate -- this last one especially if it's only at > 40 > > PPM or below), a small portion of his water and adding an equal > amount of > > the tank water (at the same temperature) to his bucket a number of > times. > > As he'll be the sole occupant of this tank, you may add his bucket > discard > > water to his tank -- if it doesn't contain ammonium, nitrite or higher > > levels of nitrate much above 40 ppm, otherwise just discard down the > drain > > > > > I don't know how large this bucket is, you haven't said, but if it's > a 5 > > gallon bucket for instance, with about 4 gallons of water in it, you > can > > change out about a pint and a half to a quart of water each time, > every 10 > > or 15 minutes for about 2 hours. This would be if his water is much > > different than the tap water, as the length of this acclimation process > > depends directly on how similar or how different these two waters > are. If > > there's less of a difference, you can cut the water exchange intervals > back > > to every 10 minutes -- for about an hour and a half. If this difference > is > > greater, you'll need to take more time. This will ensure that he gets > used > > to these new water parameters slowly. > > > > If you're still not sure how to proceed, just run it by us after > giving us > > all the test result numbers and we'll advise you from here. Oh, and if > you > > don't have an airpump and airstone, just keep scooping his bucket > water up > > with a cup and pouring it back in (from a height, so as to agitate his > water > > actively) every 5 minutes or so as you acclimate him. Ray > > > > > > > > > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>, "Cee Jaye" <CeeJayee@> wrote: > > > > > > I have a question, I moved yesterday evening & have an Oscar. He is > > > approximately 1 & 1/2yrs old (don't know if that makes a > difference;) I > > have > > > had him since the size of about a 1/2 dollar. . . > > > > > > My question is this. . . He has been at my ex-husband's house & they > didn > > t > > > really do any "maintenance" . . . Just added water when it got low > & fed > > him > > > . . > > > > > > I put him in a bucket to move him with as much of his old water as > > possible. > > > I set up his tank this am & have the filter running (which I > cleaned up) > > > I > > > have things like stress coat, novaqua, amquel, prime, etc. Should > I add > > > those to the water & let it run awhile before adding him? I put > some of > > his > > > old water into the tank & then enough new water to run the filter > to get > > it > > > going & I added some new water to his bucket. > > > > > > When do you think it would be ok to go ahead & add him to the tank? I > have > > > him a long while & really do not want him to die on me. > > > Thanks > > > Tara > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > > > > > > > > > > ------------------------------------ > > > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, > Thank You. > > ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , > .·´¯`·..><((((º> > > PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT > important to > > the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the > SUBJECT > > LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- > > <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. > > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. > > > > If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of > unsubscribing, you > > can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My Membership" > on the > > home page. > > > > Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:aquaticlife-digest%40yahoogroups.com> to receive the digest, > which > > includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email > > > > Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:aquaticlife-nomail%40yahoogroups.com> for the No E-Mail option > where > > you will still be able to read messages on the group and post replies. > > > > Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:aquaticlife-normal%40yahoogroups.com> to receive individual > e-mails > > Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > > > > ------------------------------------ > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank > You. > ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> > PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to > the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the > SUBJECT > LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- > <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. > > If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of unsubscribing, you > can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the > home page. > > Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:aquaticlife-digest%40yahoogroups.com> to receive the digest, which > includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email > > Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:aquaticlife-nomail%40yahoogroups.com> for the No E-Mail option > where > you will still be able to read messages on the group and post replies. > > Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:aquaticlife-normal%40yahoogroups.com> to receive individual > e-mails > Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > ------------------------------------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the home page. Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com to receive the digest, which includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com for the No E-Mail option where you will still be able to read messages on the group and post replies. Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com to receive individual e-mails Yahoo! Groups Links [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 43278	From: bill 1433	Date: 9/10/2009
Subject: Re: Oscar Question - (moved) (additional questions too)

He may STILL grow a tiny bit----about another 2 inches. Even a 55-gallon for him will not allow him to turn around much.  A 75 at 18 inches wide will give him the room he will need.   Bill --- On Thu, 9/10/09, Cee Jaye <CeeJayee@...> wrote: From: Cee Jaye <CeeJayee@...> Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: Oscar Question - (moved) (additional questions too) To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Date: Thursday, September 10, 2009, 5:35 PM Thanks for the reply, too, Amber;) I have been VERY lucky with my guy!! I got (what I assume:) a healthy fish when I bought & he has dealt with his conditions well! I am so glad to have him back!! I hope that all will go well & he will make an adjustment & I can get back to getting him used to me & paying attention to him the way I want:) Wow! LOL I didn't know people fed them crickets! :) I will definitely add him some because I get some for the turtles;) He's good sized. . . From reading on the net, I am guessing he is close to the average size for his age, but I think it is hindered some by his tank & I can't wait to get him a new one!!:)) I'd guess he is a good 7-8" but not positive on that. May be closer to 7. Thanks! Tara -------Original Message------- From: Amber Berglund Date: 9/10/2009 5:28:20 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: Oscar Question - (moved) (additional questions too) I like to feed my fish a variety of foods, and you'll definitely want to get your oscar a bigger tank (even bigger than 55 gallon would be better as they are dirty fish as I'm sure you know already, LOL). Fish are okay to feed them but I feel it's safer to feed them other live "critters" such as meal worms and crickets, as fish can often carry a disease especially cheap "feeder" goldfish. It is fine to mix pellets with live foods as well as frozen foods if you can get your hands on some (frozen brine shrimp, and blood worms are often good ones, mysis shrimp will probably be too small for your oscar unless "he" is still small). 2 or so hours of adding/removing your tank/well water should be sufficient in acclimating him, just watch to see how he is acting and if he seems stressed perhaps give him some more time to acclimate to the new water. Oscars are usually pretty hardy though and you shouldn't have too many problems acclimating him, just depends on if he was in good health when you picked him up from your Ex's. Amber Cee Jaye wrote: > > > Yup, he is definitely the only fish:) > > Ok, so in acclimating him slowly, I can remove a cup or so of water > from the > bucket, and add a cup of "new" water? Dumping the water removed from the > bucket down the drain. . . > I just have the "well" water. . . > He hasn't always been in this "yucky" water, only for the last 6-7 MOS (I > know its still a long time) before that I made sure that I took care > to keep > his water cleaner, etc, but I haven't been able to get up there as much > recently. Plus, they had recently began feeding him fish, which of course, > makes the water yuckier, with no changing, etc. > I will change his water slowly, after 2 or so hrs of adding water to his > bucket. & removing equal amount each time, will he be acclimated? > Actually his tank is small (20 or 30gal) & I am in the process of getting > him a new tank. Which, when I do, I will be sure to get advice on the > switch > first!! So that could be the next thing ya'll tell me if ya can:) I am > working on searching one up for him & have been asking around. . . See, I > had a 55 gal for him, but it was in storage & I lost that a few MOS ago:(( > so I have to work on replacing it now. > What do you recommend for feeding/feeding schedule for him? > The one I had as a teen, we fed him goldfish. I don't know if that is an > appropriate food source for them. . I thought there was something wrong > with that? I fed him pellets & he ate those fine. But my ex- & his > girlfriend started feeding him fish. > I guess he would still take pellets. Are they adequate? > Thanks so much for all the help!! > Tara > > -------Original Message------- > > From: sevenspringss > Date: 9/10/2009 3:05:20 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Oscar Question - (moved) > > Ordinarily, especially as he'll be the only fish in the new tank (he > thoroughly used to the old water he's in), and his old water is not > carrying > a disease, it's preferable to use as much of his water as you can -- > as you > have brought along -- provided his water parameters are safe. As you don't > have test kits, we have to assume the worst case scenario and figure > on his > water being adverse to the tap water in pH (which it most probably is > anyway), and has levels of ammonium, nitrite and nitrate -- even if it > doesn > t -- just to play it safe. When acclimating him then, any water that you > remove from his bucket while doing this should be discarded down the drain > and not added to the tank. > > Okay, I see that the bucket is a 5 gallon one -- that'a about the > "standard" > size. I suddenly see you mentioning "well water," whereas I hadn't seen > that before. If you've stated such, I must have missed it. If this is your > own private well water, you needn't use the Prime -- unless the amount of > his bucket water you've already added to the tank is considerable, but > being > only a 5 gallon bucket I find that improbable. Please know though, that > your well water could have at least the same pH as your tap water, if not > higher if it runs through limestone deposits. Then too, it could be on the > acidic side if it's not an especially deep well. If you feel "safer" using > well water, then use half well water and half tap water, with Prime (half > the dosage), since you don't have a pH test kit. > > keep up with agitating his water and proceed the acclamation, dumping > a pint > or pint and a half every 10 to 15 minutes, allowing him to get use to this > mix slowly. Do this for up to 2 hours in this case -- again treating the > situation as though it were at extremes (even though it may not be, but we > can't know that) -- if you have the time. Otherwise, at LEAST an hour; > preferable 1 1/2 hours or longer, to the 2 hours. Let us know how you make > out with him. He should be fine, especially the longer you take > acclimating > him, with the least but practical amount of water you change out each > time. > I really do suspect that with maintaining him in the same water for 1 1/2 > years with little or no maintenance, nor partial water changes, that > his pH > HAS to be at least 6.0 or lower, so go slow. BTW, how big of a tank > are you > putting him in? Ray > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>, "Cee Jaye" <CeeJayee@...> wrote: > > > > Thank you very much for the information & help too:) I appreciate it. I > didn > > t expect to suddenly move him like that . . :( > > I don't have a test kit right now. . . & now I am worried about ph:(( I > don > > t want to loose him. . . > > The only think I can hope is that "well" water is different than tap > (which > > I am sure it must be) & hopefully will not be as much of a shock for > him. > I > > am going to ask my ex to see if he knows where the test kit I had > was. . > I > > had all that stuff;( > > The bucket is about 5 gal, & it prob has about 4 gal in (maybe a little > > less). I have been taking a cup & pouring his water several times now & > then > > to "mix" up the air/water. > > Tara > > > > -------Original Message------- > > > > From: sevenspringss > > Date: 9/10/2009 1:44:25 PM > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Oscar Question - (moved) > > > > Tara, If it's at all possible, put an airstone (running) in his > bucket to > > provide a turnover of the water, to enable a better transfer of > oxygen. I > > hope you have aquarium water test kits (please let us know). As your > > ex-husband had only been topping off the tank when the water got low > and > > really didn't do any maintenance, the Oscar's water in the bucket is > most > > probably quite acidic and probably high in nitrates; it may even > have some > > ammonium and/or nitrite. Most water companies provide water with a > pH of > > over 7.0, usually in the vicinity of pH 7.4 to 7.6 (but could be higher > > depending on local conditions). If this Oscar is put directly into this > > probably much higher pH (from most likely a pH of 6.0 -- or LOWER), it > will > > suffer pH shock. You've already added some of his bucket water to the > tank, > > as I read. If there is any ammonium in his water, this will be released > as > > toxic ammonia as it mixes with the much higher pH tap water; > actually, the > > more of his bucket water you add to this higher pH tap water, the more > toxic > > this mix will become -- IF it now has ammonium. You need to test his > water > > for ammonia, nitrite, nitrate and pH and test the tap water for pH. > > > > If his bucket water has no ammonia (ammonium, when the pH is below 7.0), > it > > s safe to add the Oscar and his water to the tank, with certain > provisions > > > as long as you do it SLOWLY. Of the four water conditioner use the > PRIME. > > You will need to use this to neutralize the chloramine in the tap water, > but > > at the same time this product will also take care of any ammonium that > might > > be in his water when adding an additional amount, rendering this > ammonium > > non-toxic. Knowing the amount (if any) of ammonium in his water will > give > > you some idea of how much extra Prime you need to use. > > > > Now, if his pH is much different than that of the tap water, you'll need > to > > acclimate him over to the new water slowly, to prevent pH shock. The > wider > > the difference between these two pH's, the more time you'll need to take > in > > adjusting him over. You can do this by removing (and if not containing > > ammonium, nitrite or nitrate -- this last one especially if it's only at > 40 > > PPM or below), a small portion of his water and adding an equal > amount of > > the tank water (at the same temperature) to his bucket a number of > times. > > As he'll be the sole occupant of this tank, you may add his bucket > discard > > water to his tank -- if it doesn't contain ammonium, nitrite or higher > > levels of nitrate much above 40 ppm, otherwise just discard down the > drain > > > > > I don't know how large this bucket is, you haven't said, but if it's > a 5 > > gallon bucket for instance, with about 4 gallons of water in it, you > can > > change out about a pint and a half to a quart of water each time, > every 10 > > or 15 minutes for about 2 hours. This would be if his water is much > > different than the tap water, as the length of this acclimation process > > depends directly on how similar or how different these two waters > are. If > > there's less of a difference, you can cut the water exchange intervals > back > > to every 10 minutes -- for about an hour and a half. If this difference > is > > greater, you'll need to take more time. This will ensure that he gets > used > > to these new water parameters slowly. > > > > If you're still not sure how to proceed, just run it by us after > giving us > > all the test result numbers and we'll advise you from here. Oh, and if > you > > don't have an airpump and airstone, just keep scooping his bucket > water up > > with a cup and pouring it back in (from a height, so as to agitate his > water > > actively) every 5 minutes or so as you acclimate him. Ray > > > > > > > > > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>, "Cee Jaye" <CeeJayee@> wrote: > > > > > > I have a question, I moved yesterday evening & have an Oscar. He is > > > approximately 1 & 1/2yrs old (don't know if that makes a > difference;) I > > have > > > had him since the size of about a 1/2 dollar. . . > > > > > > My question is this. . . He has been at my ex-husband's house & they > didn > > t > > > really do any "maintenance" . . . Just added water when it got low > & fed > > him > > > . . > > > > > > I put him in a bucket to move him with as much of his old water as > > possible. > > > I set up his tank this am & have the filter running (which I > cleaned up) > > > I > > > have things like stress coat, novaqua, amquel, prime, etc. Should > I add > > > those to the water & let it run awhile before adding him? I put > some of > > his > > > old water into the tank & then enough new water to run the filter > to get > > it > > > going & I added some new water to his bucket. > > > > > > When do you think it would be ok to go ahead & add him to the tank? I > have > > > him a long while & really do not want him to die on me. > > > Thanks > > > Tara > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > > > > > > > > > > ------------------------------------ > > > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, > Thank You. > > ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , > .·´¯`·..><((((º> > > PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT > important to > > the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the > SUBJECT > > LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- > > <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. > > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. > > > > If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of > unsubscribing, you > > can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My Membership" > on the > > home page. > > > > Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:aquaticlife-digest%40yahoogroups.com> to receive the digest, > which > > includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email > > > > Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:aquaticlife-nomail%40yahoogroups.com> for the No E-Mail option > where > > you will still be able to read messages on the group and post replies. > > > > Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:aquaticlife-normal%40yahoogroups.com> to receive individual > e-mails > > Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > > > > ------------------------------------ > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank > You. > ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> > PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to > the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the > SUBJECT > LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- > <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. > > If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of unsubscribing, you > can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the > home page. > > Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:aquaticlife-digest%40yahoogroups.com> to receive the digest, which > includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email > > Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:aquaticlife-nomail%40yahoogroups.com> for the No E-Mail option > where > you will still be able to read messages on the group and post replies. > > Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:aquaticlife-normal%40yahoogroups.com> to receive individual > e-mails > Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > ------------------------------------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the home page. Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com to receive the digest, which includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com for the No E-Mail option where you will still be able to read messages on the group and post replies. Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com to receive individual e-mails Yahoo! Groups Links [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] ------------------------------------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. 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Group: AquaticLife	Message: 43279	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 9/10/2009
Subject: Baby Hillstream Loaches! yay!

Lol, so for once I actually have good news instead of bad news with my fish ;) I actually managed to end up with some baby hillstream loaches. I saw one swimming around on the bottom of the tank looking for food, I thought it was a baby guppy until I looked closely. It's only about a quarter of an inch long including it's tiny little fins (they don't have very long tail fins though). I'm glad I ended up with babies, i got discouraged a bit when I saw that one of them had died last week (with my 2 ram's) after I unplugged the UV filter :( I still have at least 4 adults from what I could see (one might be hiding), there should be 5 of them left plus the babies now though. Oh and my poor snail must've not pulled through, I'm not sure if putting him in a bowl was a good thing or not, or perhaps it was just too late (didn't get air fast enough after his lung filled with water). I had to throw the poor guy away when I got home from work today. And I also had another snail/filter intake incident, thought it had small enough slots and apparently the snail stayed for a snack long enough to get his/her face sucked into the filter *sigh* it's still moving and I'm waiting for it to remove itself from the filter on it's own, sometimes it takes a few hours since they swell up due to loss of blood flow in their bodies. poor thing :( Amber

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 43280	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 9/10/2009
Subject: Re: Oscar Question - (moved) (additional questions too)

I agree with Bill, go for a bigger tank if you're going to save up for one, sometimes you can find a very good deal on used tanks as well, so keep an eye on your local classifieds or craigslist. I managed to get a 125 gallon tank with ALL accessories/stand/filter/hood/lighting/uv filter/python etc for only 250 dollars, so there are some VERY good deals to be found if you're patient enough. You unfortunately are going to have to do at least daily maintenance on such a small tank until you can get your oscar something bigger, he/she will foul up such a small tank in a very short time frame and will need lots of fresh water coming in to compensate, as well as doing filter cleanings a couple of times a week (or more depending on how quickly he dirties his tank, just keep an eye on your filter, it's better to keep it cleaner rather than let it get really dirty and then clean it, just remember to rinse your filter cartridges in removed tank water, in a bucket or something, so that you don't kill off your bacteria). Also with your tank possibly going through a cycle you're going to want to keep a very close eye on your oscar and watch for any signs of stress/health issues as ammonia will build up very fast with such a big fish in a small tank. I have been watching some people at a local office in town that have a 55 gallon with 2 comet goldfish and a 5 inch oscar in it *BIG SIGH* they glare at me when I stare at their tank and frown now, LOL. I don't think they like me anymore, and I can't be mean in my Fed Ex Uniform, LOL. These people are slowly killing all their fish and have them all in a tank that's still cycling and it has an ammonia bloom it has gotten so bad (I don't think they are even changing the water once a week from the way it looks). They have already torn the tank down once and replaced the last fish, I think one of the goldfish MAY have possibly lived through it, but not sure. I really wish some people would do research, or our local fish store would properly INFORM new fish owners :( Okay my rant is over now, LOL. My point is, don't do what these people are doing, make sure to watch your fish and keep the water changes coming, even though you have a nice healthy fish they can easily die from ammonia poisoning. Trust me, I've also learned from personal experience as have a lot of people on this list, it's better to ask lots of questions here rather than end up losing all your fish first :( I myself put fish in an uncycled tank about a year ago and had to replace all of them once they died and I figured out what I was doing wrong, and got proper testing equipment (don't use the dip strips they are not very accurate, LOL). Hope things go well for your oscar, sounds like he's in good hands so far (even if he's in a small tank for now at least you're trying to find out how to properly care for him for the future) :) Amber bill 1433 wrote: > > > He may STILL grow a tiny bit----about another 2 inches. > Even a 55-gallon for him will not allow him to turn around > much. A 75 at 18 inches wide will give him the room he will need. > > Bill > > --- On Thu, 9/10/09, Cee Jaye <CeeJayee@... > <mailto:CeeJayee%40gmail.com>> wrote: > > From: Cee Jaye <CeeJayee@... <mailto:CeeJayee%40gmail.com>> > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: Oscar Question - (moved) (additional > questions too) > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Date: Thursday, September 10, 2009, 5:35 PM > > Thanks for the reply, too, Amber;) > I have been VERY lucky with my guy!! I got (what I assume:) a healthy fish > when I bought & he has dealt with his conditions well! I am so glad to > have > him back!! I hope that all will go well & he will make an adjustment & > I can > get back to getting him used to me & paying attention to him the way I > want:) > Wow! LOL I didn't know people fed them crickets! :) I will definitely add > him some because I get some for the turtles;) > He's good sized. . . From reading on the net, I am guessing he is close to > the average size for his age, but I think it is hindered some by his > tank & > I can't wait to get him a new one!!:)) > I'd guess he is a good 7-8" but not positive on that. May be closer to 7. > Thanks! > Tara > > -------Original Message------- > > From: Amber Berglund > Date: 9/10/2009 5:28:20 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: Oscar Question - (moved) (additional > questions too) > > I like to feed my fish a variety of foods, and you'll definitely want to > get your oscar a bigger tank (even bigger than 55 gallon would be better > as they are dirty fish as I'm sure you know already, LOL). > Fish are okay to feed them but I feel it's safer to feed them other live > "critters" such as meal worms and crickets, as fish can often carry a > disease especially cheap "feeder" goldfish. > It is fine to mix pellets with live foods as well as frozen foods if you > can get your hands on some (frozen brine shrimp, and blood worms are > often good ones, mysis shrimp will probably be too small for your oscar > unless "he" is still small). > 2 or so hours of adding/removing your tank/well water should be > sufficient in acclimating him, just watch to see how he is acting and if > he seems stressed perhaps give him some more time to acclimate to the > new water. Oscars are usually pretty hardy though and you shouldn't have > too many problems acclimating him, just depends on if he was in good > health when you picked him up from your Ex's. > > Amber > > Cee Jaye wrote: > > > > > > Yup, he is definitely the only fish:) > > > > Ok, so in acclimating him slowly, I can remove a cup or so of water > > from the > > bucket, and add a cup of "new" water? Dumping the water removed from the > > bucket down the drain. . . > > I just have the "well" water. . . > > He hasn't always been in this "yucky" water, only for the last 6-7 > MOS (I > > know its still a long time) before that I made sure that I took care > > to keep > > his water cleaner, etc, but I haven't been able to get up there as much > > recently. Plus, they had recently began feeding him fish, which of > course, > > makes the water yuckier, with no changing, etc. > > I will change his water slowly, after 2 or so hrs of adding water to his > > bucket. & removing equal amount each time, will he be acclimated? > > Actually his tank is small (20 or 30gal) & I am in the process of > getting > > him a new tank. Which, when I do, I will be sure to get advice on the > > switch > > first!! So that could be the next thing ya'll tell me if ya can:) I am > > working on searching one up for him & have been asking around. . . > See, I > > had a 55 gal for him, but it was in storage & I lost that a few MOS > ago:(( > > so I have to work on replacing it now. > > What do you recommend for feeding/feeding schedule for him? > > The one I had as a teen, we fed him goldfish. I don't know if that is an > > appropriate food source for them. . I thought there was something wrong > > with that? I fed him pellets & he ate those fine. But my ex- & his > > girlfriend started feeding him fish. > > I guess he would still take pellets. Are they adequate? > > Thanks so much for all the help!! > > Tara > > > > -------Original Message------- > > > > From: sevenspringss > > Date: 9/10/2009 3:05:20 PM > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Oscar Question - (moved) > > > > Ordinarily, especially as he'll be the only fish in the new tank (he > > thoroughly used to the old water he's in), and his old water is not > > carrying > > a disease, it's preferable to use as much of his water as you can -- > > as you > > have brought along -- provided his water parameters are safe. As you > don't > > have test kits, we have to assume the worst case scenario and figure > > on his > > water being adverse to the tap water in pH (which it most probably is > > anyway), and has levels of ammonium, nitrite and nitrate -- even if it > > doesn > > t -- just to play it safe. When acclimating him then, any water that you > > remove from his bucket while doing this should be discarded down the > drain > > and not added to the tank. > > > > Okay, I see that the bucket is a 5 gallon one -- that'a about the > > "standard" > > size. I suddenly see you mentioning "well water," whereas I hadn't seen > > that before. If you've stated such, I must have missed it. If this > is your > > own private well water, you needn't use the Prime -- unless the > amount of > > his bucket water you've already added to the tank is considerable, but > > being > > only a 5 gallon bucket I find that improbable. Please know though, that > > your well water could have at least the same pH as your tap water, > if not > > higher if it runs through limestone deposits. Then too, it could be > on the > > acidic side if it's not an especially deep well. If you feel "safer" > using > > well water, then use half well water and half tap water, with Prime > (half > > the dosage), since you don't have a pH test kit. > > > > keep up with agitating his water and proceed the acclamation, dumping > > a pint > > or pint and a half every 10 to 15 minutes, allowing him to get use > to this > > mix slowly. Do this for up to 2 hours in this case -- again treating the > > situation as though it were at extremes (even though it may not be, > but we > > can't know that) -- if you have the time. Otherwise, at LEAST an hour; > > preferable 1 1/2 hours or longer, to the 2 hours. Let us know how > you make > > out with him. He should be fine, especially the longer you take > > acclimating > > him, with the least but practical amount of water you change out each > > time. > > I really do suspect that with maintaining him in the same water for > 1 1/2 > > years with little or no maintenance, nor partial water changes, that > > his pH > > HAS to be at least 6.0 or lower, so go slow. BTW, how big of a tank > > are you > > putting him in? Ray > > > > > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>, "Cee Jaye" <CeeJayee@...> wrote: > > > > > > Thank you very much for the information & help too:) I appreciate > it. I > > didn > > > t expect to suddenly move him like that . . :( > > > I don't have a test kit right now. . . & now I am worried about > ph:(( I > > don > > > t want to loose him. . . > > > The only think I can hope is that "well" water is different than tap > > (which > > > I am sure it must be) & hopefully will not be as much of a shock for > > him. > > I > > > am going to ask my ex to see if he knows where the test kit I had > > was. . > > I > > > had all that stuff;( > > > The bucket is about 5 gal, & it prob has about 4 gal in (maybe a > little > > > less). I have been taking a cup & pouring his water several times > now & > > then > > > to "mix" up the air/water. > > > Tara > > > > > > -------Original Message------- > > > > > > From: sevenspringss > > > Date: 9/10/2009 1:44:25 PM > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Oscar Question - (moved) > > > > > > Tara, If it's at all possible, put an airstone (running) in his > > bucket to > > > provide a turnover of the water, to enable a better transfer of > > oxygen. I > > > hope you have aquarium water test kits (please let us know). As your > > > ex-husband had only been topping off the tank when the water got low > > and > > > really didn't do any maintenance, the Oscar's water in the bucket is > > most > > > probably quite acidic and probably high in nitrates; it may even > > have some > > > ammonium and/or nitrite. Most water companies provide water with a > > pH of > > > over 7.0, usually in the vicinity of pH 7.4 to 7.6 (but could be > higher > > > depending on local conditions). If this Oscar is put directly into > this > > > probably much higher pH (from most likely a pH of 6.0 -- or LOWER), it > > will > > > suffer pH shock. You've already added some of his bucket water to the > > tank, > > > as I read. If there is any ammonium in his water, this will be > released > > as > > > toxic ammonia as it mixes with the much higher pH tap water; > > actually, the > > > more of his bucket water you add to this higher pH tap water, the more > > toxic > > > this mix will become -- IF it now has ammonium. You need to test his > > water > > > for ammonia, nitrite, nitrate and pH and test the tap water for pH. > > > > > > If his bucket water has no ammonia (ammonium, when the pH is below > 7.0), > > it > > > s safe to add the Oscar and his water to the tank, with certain > > provisions > > > > > as long as you do it SLOWLY. Of the four water conditioner use the > > PRIME. > > > You will need to use this to neutralize the chloramine in the tap > water, > > but > > > at the same time this product will also take care of any ammonium that > > might > > > be in his water when adding an additional amount, rendering this > > ammonium > > > non-toxic. Knowing the amount (if any) of ammonium in his water will > > give > > > you some idea of how much extra Prime you need to use. > > > > > > Now, if his pH is much different than that of the tap water, > you'll need > > to > > > acclimate him over to the new water slowly, to prevent pH shock. The > > wider > > > the difference between these two pH's, the more time you'll need > to take > > in > > > adjusting him over. You can do this by removing (and if not containing > > > ammonium, nitrite or nitrate -- this last one especially if it's > only at > > 40 > > > PPM or below), a small portion of his water and adding an equal > > amount of > > > the tank water (at the same temperature) to his bucket a number of > > times. > > > As he'll be the sole occupant of this tank, you may add his bucket > > discard > > > water to his tank -- if it doesn't contain ammonium, nitrite or higher > > > levels of nitrate much above 40 ppm, otherwise just discard down the > > drain > > > > > > > > I don't know how large this bucket is, you haven't said, but if it's > > a 5 > > > gallon bucket for instance, with about 4 gallons of water in it, you > > can > > > change out about a pint and a half to a quart of water each time, > > every 10 > > > or 15 minutes for about 2 hours. This would be if his water is much > > > different than the tap water, as the length of this acclimation > process > > > depends directly on how similar or how different these two waters > > are. If > > > there's less of a difference, you can cut the water exchange intervals > > back > > > to every 10 minutes -- for about an hour and a half. If this > difference > > is > > > greater, you'll need to take more time. This will ensure that he gets > > used > > > to these new water parameters slowly. > > > > > > If you're still not sure how to proceed, just run it by us after > > giving us > > > all the test result numbers and we'll advise you from here. Oh, and if > > you > > > don't have an airpump and airstone, just keep scooping his bucket > > water up > > > with a cup and pouring it back in (from a height, so as to agitate his > > water > > > actively) every 5 minutes or so as you acclimate him. Ray > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>, "Cee Jaye" <CeeJayee@> wrote: > > > > > > > > I have a question, I moved yesterday evening & have an Oscar. He is > > > > approximately 1 & 1/2yrs old (don't know if that makes a > > difference;) I > > > have > > > > had him since the size of about a 1/2 dollar. . . > > > > > > > > My question is this. . . He has been at my ex-husband's house & they > > didn > > > t > > > > really do any "maintenance" . . . Just added water when it got low > > & fed > > > him > > > > . . > > > > > > > > I put him in a bucket to move him with as much of his old water as > > > possible. > > > > I set up his tank this am & have the filter running (which I > > cleaned up) > > > > > I > > > > have things like stress coat, novaqua, amquel, prime, etc. Should > > I add > > > > those to the water & let it run awhile before adding him? I put > > some of > > > his > > > > old water into the tank & then enough new water to run the filter > > to get > > > it > > > > going & I added some new water to his bucket. > > > > > > > > When do you think it would be ok to go ahead & add him to the > tank? I > > have > > > > him a long while & really do not want him to die on me. > > > > Thanks > > > > Tara > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ------------------------------------ > > > > > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, > > Thank You. > > > ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , > > .·´¯`·..><((((º> > > > PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT > > important to > > > the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the > > SUBJECT > > > LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- > > > <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , > .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. > > > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. > > > > > > If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of > > unsubscribing, you > > > can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My Membership" > > on the > > > home page. > > > > > > Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:aquaticlife-digest%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:aquaticlife-digest%40yahoogroups.com> to receive the digest, > > which > > > includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email > > > > > > Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:aquaticlife-nomail%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:aquaticlife-nomail%40yahoogroups.com> for the No E-Mail option > > where > > > you will still be able to read messages on the group and post replies. > > > > > > Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:aquaticlife-normal%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:aquaticlife-normal%40yahoogroups.com> to receive individual > > e-mails > > > Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > > > > > > > > > > ------------------------------------ > > > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank > > You. > > ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> > > PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT > important to > > the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the > > SUBJECT > > LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- > > <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. > > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. > > > > If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of > unsubscribing, you > > can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My Membership" > on the > > home page. > > > > Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:aquaticlife-digest%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:aquaticlife-digest%40yahoogroups.com> to receive the digest, > which > > includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email > > > > Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:aquaticlife-nomail%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:aquaticlife-nomail%40yahoogroups.com> for the No E-Mail option > > where > > you will still be able to read messages on the group and post replies. > > > > Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:aquaticlife-normal%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:aquaticlife-normal%40yahoogroups.com> to receive individual > > e-mails > > Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > > > ------------------------------------ > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. > ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> > PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to > the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the > SUBJECT > LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- > <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. > > If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of unsubscribing, you > can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the > home page. > > Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:aquaticlife-digest%40yahoogroups.com> to receive the digest, which > includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email > > Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:aquaticlife-nomail%40yahoogroups.com> for the No E-Mail option > where > you will still be able to read messages on the group and post replies. > > Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:aquaticlife-normal%40yahoogroups.com> to receive individual > e-mails > Yahoo! Groups Links > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > ------------------------------------ > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. > ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> > PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT > important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message > MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- > <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. > > If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of unsubscribing, > you can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My > Membership" on the home page. > > Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:aquaticlife-digest%40yahoogroups.com> to receive the digest, > which includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email > > Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:aquaticlife-nomail%40yahoogroups.com> for the No E-Mail option > where you will still be able to read messages on the group and post > replies. > > Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:aquaticlife-normal%40yahoogroups.com> to receive individual > e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 43281	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 9/10/2009
Subject: Re: How Much Carbon?

Bill, Figure 28 grams to the ounce, to make it easy. That way, your 150 grams is equal to 5.3571428571428571428571428571429 ounces. If you want to be a bit more precise in your measurement, 1 ounce = 28.349523125 gram, or, 150 gram = 5.2910942924 ounce. Happy calculating. \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of bill 1433 Sent: Thursday, September 10, 2009 5:17 PM To: AquaticLife Subject: [AquaticLife] How Much Carbon? I recently decided to use carbon but according to the directions on the box, it's telling me to use a 1/2 cup, 8 Tablespoons per 10 gallons! At this rate I would not have enough room for any other filter material in the box. The filter in question is an Aqua Clear 50 (200). The replacement carbon packet comes to 150 grams. Does anyone know what this would work out to by tablespoon or cup size as I don't have a gram scale for weight. Again, by following the box directions from AP, I would be adding 1 1/2 cups of carbon to the power filter! NOT! Bill

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 43282	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 9/10/2009
Subject: Re: Oscar Question - (moved) (additional questions too)

Yeah CeeJaye, the bigger the tank, the less work it will be for you too. I'd go with a minimum of a 75G and the longer/wider the better. A tall tank with a smaller footprint doesn't really give him the room he needs to grow and swim around properly. Technically, use the 6X minimum rule for slower swimming fish, the tank should be 6X longer than the expected adult size so a 6'+ long tank would be best but I know money is always an issue. At least with a 75G, you could probably get away with weekly maintenance and a 25% to 33% PWC's (partial water changes). With a 55G, you would probably have to do twice weekly 25% PWC's and tank maintenance to keep the tank reasonably clean. While he's still in the small tank (and depending on if it's 20G or 30G... give us the measurements), you should probably do daily 10% PWC's OR 25% every other day and then a weekly 25-33% PWC when you vacuum the gravel good to get out as much detritus as possible. That would at least simulate the larger water volume as being similar to a larger tank as far as the pollution levels and hormone/pheromone levels. It is these hormone levels that we cannot test for but we now know they are the thing that causes stunting, stress and health issues for our fish. If you've used carbon in the past, continue to use it till you run out but then get something like Purigen or other advanced chemical filtration media (I like Purigen since it can be cleaned and recharged with regular bleach) which will help to remove more of the dissolved organic waste. While this isn't needed on a normally stocked tank, when someone is stuck with an overstocked tank (or undersized tank for the fish), then using this certainly helps keep up the water quality until the tank size can be improved. Purigen will last several years before you can't recharge it any longer so it's a much better price in the long run. I use the 100ml packets in my 65G goldfish tank (2 fancies). Purigen also comes in bulk form but a single 100ml packet would be fine for your... or two of them so you can alternate them when you take one out for cleaning/recharging. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of bill 1433 Sent: Thursday, September 10, 2009 5:10 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: Oscar Question - (moved) (additional questions too) He may STILL grow a tiny bit----about another 2 inches. Even a 55-gallon for him will not allow him to turn around much.  A 75 at 18 inches wide will give him the room he will need.   Bill --- On Thu, 9/10/09, Cee Jaye <CeeJayee@...> wrote: From: Cee Jaye <CeeJayee@...> Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: Oscar Question - (moved) (additional questions too) To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Date: Thursday, September 10, 2009, 5:35 PM Thanks for the reply, too, Amber;) I have been VERY lucky with my guy!! I got (what I assume:) a healthy fish when I bought & he has dealt with his conditions well! I am so glad to have him back!! I hope that all will go well & he will make an adjustment & I can get back to getting him used to me & paying attention to him the way I want:) Wow! LOL I didn't know people fed them crickets! :) I will definitely add him some because I get some for the turtles;) He's good sized. . . From reading on the net, I am guessing he is close to the average size for his age, but I think it is hindered some by his tank & I can't wait to get him a new one!!:)) I'd guess he is a good 7-8" but not positive on that. May be closer to 7. Thanks! Tara -------Original Message------- From: Amber Berglund Date: 9/10/2009 5:28:20 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: Oscar Question - (moved) (additional questions too) I like to feed my fish a variety of foods, and you'll definitely want to get your oscar a bigger tank (even bigger than 55 gallon would be better as they are dirty fish as I'm sure you know already, LOL). Fish are okay to feed them but I feel it's safer to feed them other live "critters" such as meal worms and crickets, as fish can often carry a disease especially cheap "feeder" goldfish. It is fine to mix pellets with live foods as well as frozen foods if you can get your hands on some (frozen brine shrimp, and blood worms are often good ones, mysis shrimp will probably be too small for your oscar unless "he" is still small). 2 or so hours of adding/removing your tank/well water should be sufficient in acclimating him, just watch to see how he is acting and if he seems stressed perhaps give him some more time to acclimate to the new water. Oscars are usually pretty hardy though and you shouldn't have too many problems acclimating him, just depends on if he was in good health when you picked him up from your Ex's. Amber Cee Jaye wrote: > > > Yup, he is definitely the only fish:) > > Ok, so in acclimating him slowly, I can remove a cup or so of water > from the bucket, and add a cup of "new" water? Dumping the water > removed from the bucket down the drain. . . > I just have the "well" water. . . > He hasn't always been in this "yucky" water, only for the last 6-7 MOS > (I know its still a long time) before that I made sure that I took > care to keep his water cleaner, etc, but I haven't been able to get up > there as much recently. Plus, they had recently began feeding him > fish, which of course, makes the water yuckier, with no changing, etc. > I will change his water slowly, after 2 or so hrs of adding water to > his bucket. & removing equal amount each time, will he be acclimated? > Actually his tank is small (20 or 30gal) & I am in the process of > getting him a new tank. Which, when I do, I will be sure to get advice > on the switch first!! So that could be the next thing ya'll tell me if > ya can:) I am working on searching one up for him & have been asking > around. . . See, I had a 55 gal for him, but it was in storage & I > lost that a few MOS ago:(( so I have to work on replacing it now. > What do you recommend for feeding/feeding schedule for him? > The one I had as a teen, we fed him goldfish. I don't know if that is > an appropriate food source for them. . I thought there was something > wrong with that? I fed him pellets & he ate those fine. But my ex- & > his girlfriend started feeding him fish. > I guess he would still take pellets. Are they adequate? > Thanks so much for all the help!! > Tara > > -------Original Message------- > > From: sevenspringss > Date: 9/10/2009 3:05:20 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Oscar Question - (moved) > > Ordinarily, especially as he'll be the only fish in the new tank (he > thoroughly used to the old water he's in), and his old water is not > carrying a disease, it's preferable to use as much of his water as you > can -- as you have brought along -- provided his water parameters are > safe. As you don't have test kits, we have to assume the worst case > scenario and figure on his water being adverse to the tap water in pH > (which it most probably is anyway), and has levels of ammonium, > nitrite and nitrate -- even if it doesn t -- just to play it safe. > When acclimating him then, any water that you remove from his bucket > while doing this should be discarded down the drain and not added to > the tank. > > Okay, I see that the bucket is a 5 gallon one -- that'a about the > "standard" > size. I suddenly see you mentioning "well water," whereas I hadn't > seen that before. If you've stated such, I must have missed it. If > this is your own private well water, you needn't use the Prime -- > unless the amount of his bucket water you've already added to the tank > is considerable, but being only a 5 gallon bucket I find that > improbable. Please know though, that your well water could have at > least the same pH as your tap water, if not higher if it runs through > limestone deposits. Then too, it could be on the acidic side if it's > not an especially deep well. If you feel "safer" using well water, > then use half well water and half tap water, with Prime (half the > dosage), since you don't have a pH test kit. > > keep up with agitating his water and proceed the acclamation, dumping > a pint or pint and a half every 10 to 15 minutes, allowing him to get > use to this mix slowly. Do this for up to 2 hours in this case -- > again treating the situation as though it were at extremes (even > though it may not be, but we can't know that) -- if you have the time. > Otherwise, at LEAST an hour; preferable 1 1/2 hours or longer, to the > 2 hours. Let us know how you make out with him. He should be fine, > especially the longer you take acclimating him, with the least but > practical amount of water you change out each time. > I really do suspect that with maintaining him in the same water for 1 > 1/2 years with little or no maintenance, nor partial water changes, > that his pH HAS to be at least 6.0 or lower, so go slow. BTW, how big > of a tank are you putting him in? Ray > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>, "Cee Jaye" <CeeJayee@...> wrote: > > > > Thank you very much for the information & help too:) I appreciate > > it. I > didn > > t expect to suddenly move him like that . . :( I don't have a test > > kit right now. . . & now I am worried about ph:(( I > don > > t want to loose him. . . > > The only think I can hope is that "well" water is different than tap > (which > > I am sure it must be) & hopefully will not be as much of a shock for > him. > I > > am going to ask my ex to see if he knows where the test kit I had > was. . > I > > had all that stuff;( > > The bucket is about 5 gal, & it prob has about 4 gal in (maybe a > > little less). I have been taking a cup & pouring his water several > > times now & > then > > to "mix" up the air/water. > > Tara > > > > -------Original Message------- > > > > From: sevenspringss > > Date: 9/10/2009 1:44:25 PM > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Oscar Question - (moved) > > > > Tara, If it's at all possible, put an airstone (running) in his > bucket to > > provide a turnover of the water, to enable a better transfer of > oxygen. I > > hope you have aquarium water test kits (please let us know). As your > > ex-husband had only been topping off the tank when the water got low > and > > really didn't do any maintenance, the Oscar's water in the bucket is > most > > probably quite acidic and probably high in nitrates; it may even > have some > > ammonium and/or nitrite. Most water companies provide water with a > pH of > > over 7.0, usually in the vicinity of pH 7.4 to 7.6 (but could be > > higher depending on local conditions). If this Oscar is put directly > > into this probably much higher pH (from most likely a pH of 6.0 -- > > or LOWER), it > will > > suffer pH shock. You've already added some of his bucket water to > > the > tank, > > as I read. If there is any ammonium in his water, this will be > > released > as > > toxic ammonia as it mixes with the much higher pH tap water; > actually, the > > more of his bucket water you add to this higher pH tap water, the > > more > toxic > > this mix will become -- IF it now has ammonium. You need to test his > water > > for ammonia, nitrite, nitrate and pH and test the tap water for pH. > > > > If his bucket water has no ammonia (ammonium, when the pH is below > > 7.0), > it > > s safe to add the Oscar and his water to the tank, with certain > provisions > > > as long as you do it SLOWLY. Of the four water conditioner use the > PRIME. > > You will need to use this to neutralize the chloramine in the tap > > water, > but > > at the same time this product will also take care of any ammonium > > that > might > > be in his water when adding an additional amount, rendering this > ammonium > > non-toxic. Knowing the amount (if any) of ammonium in his water will > give > > you some idea of how much extra Prime you need to use. > > > > Now, if his pH is much different than that of the tap water, you'll > > need > to > > acclimate him over to the new water slowly, to prevent pH shock. The > wider > > the difference between these two pH's, the more time you'll need to > > take > in > > adjusting him over. You can do this by removing (and if not > > containing ammonium, nitrite or nitrate -- this last one especially > > if it's only at > 40 > > PPM or below), a small portion of his water and adding an equal > amount of > > the tank water (at the same temperature) to his bucket a number of > times. > > As he'll be the sole occupant of this tank, you may add his bucket > discard > > water to his tank -- if it doesn't contain ammonium, nitrite or > > higher levels of nitrate much above 40 ppm, otherwise just discard > > down the > drain > > > > > I don't know how large this bucket is, you haven't said, but if it's > a 5 > > gallon bucket for instance, with about 4 gallons of water in it, you > can > > change out about a pint and a half to a quart of water each time, > every 10 > > or 15 minutes for about 2 hours. This would be if his water is much > > different than the tap water, as the length of this acclimation > > process depends directly on how similar or how different these two > > waters > are. If > > there's less of a difference, you can cut the water exchange > > intervals > back > > to every 10 minutes -- for about an hour and a half. If this > > difference > is > > greater, you'll need to take more time. This will ensure that he > > gets > used > > to these new water parameters slowly. > > > > If you're still not sure how to proceed, just run it by us after > giving us > > all the test result numbers and we'll advise you from here. Oh, and > > if > you > > don't have an airpump and airstone, just keep scooping his bucket > water up > > with a cup and pouring it back in (from a height, so as to agitate > > his > water > > actively) every 5 minutes or so as you acclimate him. Ray > > > > > > > > > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>, "Cee Jaye" <CeeJayee@> wrote: > > > > > > I have a question, I moved yesterday evening & have an Oscar. He > > > is approximately 1 & 1/2yrs old (don't know if that makes a > difference;) I > > have > > > had him since the size of about a 1/2 dollar. . . > > > > > > My question is this. . . He has been at my ex-husband's house & > > > they > didn > > t > > > really do any "maintenance" . . . Just added water when it got low > & fed > > him > > > . . > > > > > > I put him in a bucket to move him with as much of his old water as > > possible. > > > I set up his tank this am & have the filter running (which I > cleaned up) > > > I > > > have things like stress coat, novaqua, amquel, prime, etc. Should > I add > > > those to the water & let it run awhile before adding him? I put > some of > > his > > > old water into the tank & then enough new water to run the filter > to get > > it > > > going & I added some new water to his bucket. > > > > > > When do you think it would be ok to go ahead & add him to the > > > tank? I > have > > > him a long while & really do not want him to die on me. > > > Thanks > > > Tara > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > > > > > > > > > > ------------------------------------ > > > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, > Thank You. > > ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , > .·´¯`·..><((((º> > > PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT > important to > > the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the > SUBJECT > > LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- > > <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. > > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. > > > > If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of > unsubscribing, you > > can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My Membership" > on the > > home page. > > > > Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:aquaticlife-digest%40yahoogroups.com> to receive the digest, > which > > includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email > > > > Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:aquaticlife-nomail%40yahoogroups.com> for the No E-Mail option > where > > you will still be able to read messages on the group and post replies. > > > > Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:aquaticlife-normal%40yahoogroups.com> to receive individual > e-mails > > Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > > > > ------------------------------------ > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank > You. > ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , > .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT > that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the > original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: > old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , > .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. > > If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of unsubscribing, > you can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My > Membership" on the home page. > > Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:aquaticlife-digest%40yahoogroups.com> to receive the digest, > which includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email > > Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:aquaticlife-nomail%40yahoogroups.com> for the No E-Mail option > where you will still be able to read messages on the group and post > replies. > > Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:aquaticlife-normal%40yahoogroups.com> to receive individual > e-mails Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > ------------------------------------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the home page. Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com to receive the digest, which includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com for the No E-Mail option where you will still be able to read messages on the group and post replies. Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com to receive individual e-mails Yahoo! Groups Links [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] ------------------------------------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the home page.  Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com to receive the digest, which includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com for the No E-Mail option where you will still be able to read messages on the group and post replies. Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com to receive individual e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links ------------------------------------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the home page. Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com to receive the digest, which includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com for the No E-Mail option where you will still be able to read messages on the group and post replies. Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com to receive individual e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 43283	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 9/10/2009
Subject: Re: Oscar Question - (moved)

Lenny, Here are directions for "shocking" your well. http://aces.nmsu.edu/pubs/_m/m-115.pdf \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Lenny V. aka GoldLenny Sent: Thursday, September 10, 2009 2:52 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Oscar Question - (moved) Since you are on a well water system, hopefully you do not have chlorine/chloramine in your water so you would not have to use a dechlor but using Prime in the beginning would be helpful at least until we are sure that your tank is properly "Cycled" (The Nitrogen Cycle) and that we know what your water parameters are like. I see that Ray has also replied and he covers a lot of things I did not cover, or covers them in different ways. I'm wondering about the "shock it" treatment to your well. I'm not sure why they would have to do that but maybe one of the well owners out here can answer that. I know about using a shock chemical treatment in a swimming pool but I'm not sure how that would work in a well. I did do a quick Google and saw that it entails using a heavy dose of chlorine when a well system has been contaminated with bacteria. http://www.maine.gov/dhhs/eng/water/Templates/Sections/Field%20Services/well shockingfactsheet.htm I'm not sure how long this process lasts and/or if there would be residual chlorine in your water so hopefully you used the Prime on the tank water, otherwise if there was chlorine in the well water, any good bacteria that might have survived your filter cleaning would certainly be killed off with the chlorinated water. If the shock treatment has worn out and there was no residual chlorine, the bacteria would still only live for so long without a food source (fish urine, ammonia from decaying detritus, etc.) so you will still need to test your tank daily after adding your Oscar to make sure you do not have cycling issues. Instead of just getting a pH test kit, you can get a complete Master Test Kit for $15 - $17 from Walmart.com, with free shipping to your local store. That's the best bargain on the internet right now, AFAIK. Here's the links... http://www.walmart.com/catalog/product.do?product_id=3635493 http://www.walmart.com/catalog/product.do?product_id=3635399 Each kit is slightly inadequate. The top link to the API kit includes pH, ammonia, nitrite, nitrate but does not test for GH & KH (General Hardness & Carbonate Hardness). The 2nd link is to the Tetratest-Laborette kit and includes pH, ammonia, nitrite, GH, KH and CO2 but does not include the Nitrate test kit. API does sell a separate Nitrate kit and/or a separate GH/KH test kit so depending on which brand you choose above, you could get the added on kit and still have a full master kit for under $25.00. So to recap, yes, use the Prime on the tank before starting the acclimation process. Add a pinch of salt per 10G to help prevent nitrite poisoning if you get a nitrite spike. Yes, good old fashioned plain table salt (NaCL = Sodium Chloride) is fine... that stuff they sell as "aquarium salt" is the exact same thing for about 10 times the price. Even if all you have is Iodized Salt, that's still OK. Iodide is at such a small level and will not affect aquarium fish and only at higher levels, in ponds, where the sunlight affects the Iodide, does it become a possible issue. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Cee Jaye Sent: Thursday, September 10, 2009 12:46 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Oscar Question - (moved) Thank you for all the info - I didn't "thoroughly" clean the filter, but rinsed some of it out, as it was barely running water through. I didn't do anything to the tank water yet, as I wanted to see the recommendation first. Regular table salt? I have not added him to the tank yet, & still have him in the bucket, he's ok but I am worried about him being in there. . The move unfortunately was sudden:( This is a well system, so I am not sure how different it is from city systems - I know the water has been tested. It was treated a month or so ago, with shock it or something?? But there is not filtration system on the "well" water at this time. I do not have my pH test kit as I need to get a new one - I couldn't find the one I had there with the fish at my ex's house. Thank you for all the helpful info! Tara -------Original Message------- From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny Date: 9/10/2009 1:19:05 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Oscar Question - (moved) I wish you would have asked us before you made the move but we'll help as Best we can now. When you cleaned the filter, how did you clean it? If you cleaned it Thoroughly, then you also may have killed off all of the good nitrifying Bacteria that lives mostly in the filter media. This means you will likely Have Nitrogen Cycle issues like on a newly set up tank. When you set up the tank again, which dechlor product did you use to treat Your tap water? Since you have Prime, I would use it as your dechlor product for the next Month or two and then you can switch to a lower cost dechlor. DO NOT use All the other stuff you have. You will still have to go through the Nitrogen cycle and do frequent PWC's (partial water changes) to keep the Ammonia and nitrite levels down to reasonably safe levels but the Prime will Help in making the ammonia less toxic. Add a pinch of salt per 10G to help Prevent nitrite poisoning when you get your nitrite spike. Do you have a Master Test Kit for testing the water for things like ammonia, Nitrite, nitrate, pH, etc.? Let us know which tests you do have, if any. If you did use a dechlor on the tank water, then you can start SLOWLY acclimating him to the new water since he has lived in the funky water for so long. It would help to know the water parameters of the water he was living in and the new water but absent that, you should probably set up a drip line to add tank water to his bucket. Here's a page about acclimating fish which includes this method of acclimation which starts about 1/2 way down on the page. http://www.csupomona.edu/~jskoga/Aquariums/Acclimation.html Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Cee Jaye Sent: Thursday, September 10, 2009 11:43 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Oscar Question - (moved) I have a question, I moved yesterday evening & have an Oscar. He is approximately 1 & 1/2yrs old (don't know if that makes a difference;) I have had him since the size of about a 1/2 dollar. . . My question is this. . . He has been at my ex-husband's house & they didn't really do any "maintenance" . . . Just added water when it got low & fed him . . I put him in a bucket to move him with as much of his old water as possible. I set up his tank this am & have the filter running (which I cleaned up). I have things like stress coat, novaqua, amquel, prime, etc. Should I add those to the water & let it run awhile before adding him? I put some of his old water into the tank & then enough new water to run the filter to get it going & I added some new water to his bucket. When do you think it would be ok to go ahead & add him to the tank? I have him a long while & really do not want him to die on me. Thanks Tara ------------------------------------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the home page. Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com to receive the digest, which includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com for the No E-Mail option where you will still be able to read messages on the group and post replies. Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com to receive individual e-mails Yahoo! Groups Links [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] ------------------------------------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the home page. Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com to receive the digest, which includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com for the No E-Mail option where you will still be able to read messages on the group and post replies. Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com to receive individual e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links ------------------------------------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the home page. Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com to receive the digest, which includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com for the No E-Mail option where you will still be able to read messages on the group and post replies. Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com to receive individual e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 43284	From: bill 1433	Date: 9/10/2009
Subject: Re: How Much Carbon?

I appreciate that buddy BUT..........if ya could change all that to teaspoons, tablespoons, 1/4 cups or 1/2 cups, I'd be obliged to you. You must've missed that part of the post where I mentioned about not having a gram scale. But this 1st part went in Ye Olde Notebook for future reference. UNLESS your talking to use the ounce as per liquid measuremnet? In which case your calulation would put us at about 2/3's of a cup? Correct? And thank you, Bill --- On Thu, 9/10/09, Steve Szabo <steve@...> wrote: > From: Steve Szabo <steve@...> > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] How Much Carbon? > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Date: Thursday, September 10, 2009, 8:33 PM > Bill, > > Figure 28 grams to the ounce, to make it easy. That way, > your 150 grams > is equal to 5.3571428571428571428571428571429 ounces. If > you want to be > a bit more precise in your measurement, 1 ounce = > 28.349523125 gram, or, > 150 gram = 5.2910942924 ounce. > > Happy calculating. > > \\Steve// > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] > On Behalf Of bill 1433 > Sent: Thursday, September 10, 2009 5:17 PM > To: AquaticLife > Subject: [AquaticLife] How Much Carbon? > > I recently decided to use carbon but according to > the directions on the box, it's telling me to use a 1/2 > cup, > 8 Tablespoons per 10 gallons!  At this rate I would > not have enough > room for any other filter material in the box. > > The filter in question is an Aqua Clear 50 (200).  The > replacement > carbon packet comes to 150 grams.  Does anyone know > what this > would work out to by tablespoon or cup size as I don't have > a gram > scale for weight.  Again, by following the box > directions from AP, I > would be adding 1 1/2 cups of carbon to the power > filter!  NOT! > > Bill > > > > > ------------------------------------ > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when > replying, Thank You. > ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> > ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> > PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is > NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of > the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new > subject (was re: old subject)" <- > <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. > , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. > > If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of > unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by > clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the home page.  > > Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com > to receive the digest, which includes up to 25 posts at a > time in a single email > > Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com > for the No E-Mail option where you will still be able to > read messages on the group and post replies. > > Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com > to receive individual e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links > > >     mailto:AquaticLife-fullfeatured@yahoogroups.com > > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 43285	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 9/10/2009
Subject: Re: How Much Carbon?

I would use the least amount possible since it's only good for a couple of weeks anyhow. Of course, the manufacturer is going to tell you to use plenty... that means they sell more when you run out quicker. As far as how much you use, it really depends on the bioload of the tank or the purpose for using it. The AC-50 would be big enough for you to use a 100ml of Purigen, which would be much better than using carbon and it's much less costly in the long run. It comes in it's own filter bag and would lay down perfectly as the top layer or 2nd from top layer of filtration... with maybe the bio-media as the top/front layer. As far as measuring, you can pretty much use grams and ml since 1ml of water weighs 1gm but for things that have a higher or lower mass (weight) than water, it will not calculate exactly but for this purpose, it will be close enough. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of bill 1433 Sent: Thursday, September 10, 2009 4:17 PM To: AquaticLife Subject: [AquaticLife] How Much Carbon? I recently decided to use carbon but according to the directions on the box, it's telling me to use a 1/2 cup, 8 Tablespoons per 10 gallons! At this rate I would not have enough room for any other filter material in the box. The filter in question is an Aqua Clear 50 (200). The replacement carbon packet comes to 150 grams. Does anyone know what this would work out to by tablespoon or cup size as I don't have a gram scale for weight. Again, by following the box directions from AP, I would be adding 1 1/2 cups of carbon to the power filter! NOT! Bill

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 43286	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 9/10/2009
Subject: Re: Oscar Question - (moved) (additional questions too)

Why do you say only another 2 inches? Oscars grow to much larger than 9" in the proper sized tank. Now, stuck in a 20G or 30G, yes he probably won't grow much larger. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of bill 1433 Sent: Thursday, September 10, 2009 5:10 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: Oscar Question - (moved) (additional questions too) He may STILL grow a tiny bit----about another 2 inches. Even a 55-gallon for him will not allow him to turn around much.  A 75 at 18 inches wide will give him the room he will need.   Bill --- On Thu, 9/10/09, Cee Jaye <CeeJayee@...> wrote: From: Cee Jaye <CeeJayee@...> Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: Oscar Question - (moved) (additional questions too) To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Date: Thursday, September 10, 2009, 5:35 PM Thanks for the reply, too, Amber;) I have been VERY lucky with my guy!! I got (what I assume:) a healthy fish when I bought & he has dealt with his conditions well! I am so glad to have him back!! I hope that all will go well & he will make an adjustment & I can get back to getting him used to me & paying attention to him the way I want:) Wow! LOL I didn't know people fed them crickets! :) I will definitely add him some because I get some for the turtles;) He's good sized. . . From reading on the net, I am guessing he is close to the average size for his age, but I think it is hindered some by his tank & I can't wait to get him a new one!!:)) I'd guess he is a good 7-8" but not positive on that. May be closer to 7. Thanks! Tara -------Original Message------- From: Amber Berglund Date: 9/10/2009 5:28:20 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: Oscar Question - (moved) (additional questions too) I like to feed my fish a variety of foods, and you'll definitely want to get your oscar a bigger tank (even bigger than 55 gallon would be better as they are dirty fish as I'm sure you know already, LOL). Fish are okay to feed them but I feel it's safer to feed them other live "critters" such as meal worms and crickets, as fish can often carry a disease especially cheap "feeder" goldfish. It is fine to mix pellets with live foods as well as frozen foods if you can get your hands on some (frozen brine shrimp, and blood worms are often good ones, mysis shrimp will probably be too small for your oscar unless "he" is still small). 2 or so hours of adding/removing your tank/well water should be sufficient in acclimating him, just watch to see how he is acting and if he seems stressed perhaps give him some more time to acclimate to the new water. Oscars are usually pretty hardy though and you shouldn't have too many problems acclimating him, just depends on if he was in good health when you picked him up from your Ex's. Amber Cee Jaye wrote: > > > Yup, he is definitely the only fish:) > > Ok, so in acclimating him slowly, I can remove a cup or so of water > from the bucket, and add a cup of "new" water? Dumping the water > removed from the bucket down the drain. . . > I just have the "well" water. . . > He hasn't always been in this "yucky" water, only for the last 6-7 MOS > (I know its still a long time) before that I made sure that I took > care to keep his water cleaner, etc, but I haven't been able to get up > there as much recently. Plus, they had recently began feeding him > fish, which of course, makes the water yuckier, with no changing, etc. > I will change his water slowly, after 2 or so hrs of adding water to > his bucket. & removing equal amount each time, will he be acclimated? > Actually his tank is small (20 or 30gal) & I am in the process of > getting him a new tank. Which, when I do, I will be sure to get advice > on the switch first!! So that could be the next thing ya'll tell me if > ya can:) I am working on searching one up for him & have been asking > around. . . See, I had a 55 gal for him, but it was in storage & I > lost that a few MOS ago:(( so I have to work on replacing it now. > What do you recommend for feeding/feeding schedule for him? > The one I had as a teen, we fed him goldfish. I don't know if that is > an appropriate food source for them. . I thought there was something > wrong with that? I fed him pellets & he ate those fine. But my ex- & > his girlfriend started feeding him fish. > I guess he would still take pellets. Are they adequate? > Thanks so much for all the help!! > Tara > > -------Original Message------- > > From: sevenspringss > Date: 9/10/2009 3:05:20 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Oscar Question - (moved) > > Ordinarily, especially as he'll be the only fish in the new tank (he > thoroughly used to the old water he's in), and his old water is not > carrying a disease, it's preferable to use as much of his water as you > can -- as you have brought along -- provided his water parameters are > safe. As you don't have test kits, we have to assume the worst case > scenario and figure on his water being adverse to the tap water in pH > (which it most probably is anyway), and has levels of ammonium, > nitrite and nitrate -- even if it doesn t -- just to play it safe. > When acclimating him then, any water that you remove from his bucket > while doing this should be discarded down the drain and not added to > the tank. > > Okay, I see that the bucket is a 5 gallon one -- that'a about the > "standard" > size. I suddenly see you mentioning "well water," whereas I hadn't > seen that before. If you've stated such, I must have missed it. If > this is your own private well water, you needn't use the Prime -- > unless the amount of his bucket water you've already added to the tank > is considerable, but being only a 5 gallon bucket I find that > improbable. Please know though, that your well water could have at > least the same pH as your tap water, if not higher if it runs through > limestone deposits. Then too, it could be on the acidic side if it's > not an especially deep well. If you feel "safer" using well water, > then use half well water and half tap water, with Prime (half the > dosage), since you don't have a pH test kit. > > keep up with agitating his water and proceed the acclamation, dumping > a pint or pint and a half every 10 to 15 minutes, allowing him to get > use to this mix slowly. Do this for up to 2 hours in this case -- > again treating the situation as though it were at extremes (even > though it may not be, but we can't know that) -- if you have the time. > Otherwise, at LEAST an hour; preferable 1 1/2 hours or longer, to the > 2 hours. Let us know how you make out with him. He should be fine, > especially the longer you take acclimating him, with the least but > practical amount of water you change out each time. > I really do suspect that with maintaining him in the same water for 1 > 1/2 years with little or no maintenance, nor partial water changes, > that his pH HAS to be at least 6.0 or lower, so go slow. BTW, how big > of a tank are you putting him in? Ray > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>, "Cee Jaye" <CeeJayee@...> wrote: > > > > Thank you very much for the information & help too:) I appreciate > > it. I > didn > > t expect to suddenly move him like that . . :( I don't have a test > > kit right now. . . & now I am worried about ph:(( I > don > > t want to loose him. . . > > The only think I can hope is that "well" water is different than tap > (which > > I am sure it must be) & hopefully will not be as much of a shock for > him. > I > > am going to ask my ex to see if he knows where the test kit I had > was. . > I > > had all that stuff;( > > The bucket is about 5 gal, & it prob has about 4 gal in (maybe a > > little less). I have been taking a cup & pouring his water several > > times now & > then > > to "mix" up the air/water. > > Tara > > > > -------Original Message------- > > > > From: sevenspringss > > Date: 9/10/2009 1:44:25 PM > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Oscar Question - (moved) > > > > Tara, If it's at all possible, put an airstone (running) in his > bucket to > > provide a turnover of the water, to enable a better transfer of > oxygen. I > > hope you have aquarium water test kits (please let us know). As your > > ex-husband had only been topping off the tank when the water got low > and > > really didn't do any maintenance, the Oscar's water in the bucket is > most > > probably quite acidic and probably high in nitrates; it may even > have some > > ammonium and/or nitrite. Most water companies provide water with a > pH of > > over 7.0, usually in the vicinity of pH 7.4 to 7.6 (but could be > > higher depending on local conditions). If this Oscar is put directly > > into this probably much higher pH (from most likely a pH of 6.0 -- > > or LOWER), it > will > > suffer pH shock. You've already added some of his bucket water to > > the > tank, > > as I read. If there is any ammonium in his water, this will be > > released > as > > toxic ammonia as it mixes with the much higher pH tap water; > actually, the > > more of his bucket water you add to this higher pH tap water, the > > more > toxic > > this mix will become -- IF it now has ammonium. You need to test his > water > > for ammonia, nitrite, nitrate and pH and test the tap water for pH. > > > > If his bucket water has no ammonia (ammonium, when the pH is below > > 7.0), > it > > s safe to add the Oscar and his water to the tank, with certain > provisions > > > as long as you do it SLOWLY. Of the four water conditioner use the > PRIME. > > You will need to use this to neutralize the chloramine in the tap > > water, > but > > at the same time this product will also take care of any ammonium > > that > might > > be in his water when adding an additional amount, rendering this > ammonium > > non-toxic. Knowing the amount (if any) of ammonium in his water will > give > > you some idea of how much extra Prime you need to use. > > > > Now, if his pH is much different than that of the tap water, you'll > > need > to > > acclimate him over to the new water slowly, to prevent pH shock. The > wider > > the difference between these two pH's, the more time you'll need to > > take > in > > adjusting him over. You can do this by removing (and if not > > containing ammonium, nitrite or nitrate -- this last one especially > > if it's only at > 40 > > PPM or below), a small portion of his water and adding an equal > amount of > > the tank water (at the same temperature) to his bucket a number of > times. > > As he'll be the sole occupant of this tank, you may add his bucket > discard > > water to his tank -- if it doesn't contain ammonium, nitrite or > > higher levels of nitrate much above 40 ppm, otherwise just discard > > down the > drain > > > > > I don't know how large this bucket is, you haven't said, but if it's > a 5 > > gallon bucket for instance, with about 4 gallons of water in it, you > can > > change out about a pint and a half to a quart of water each time, > every 10 > > or 15 minutes for about 2 hours. This would be if his water is much > > different than the tap water, as the length of this acclimation > > process depends directly on how similar or how different these two > > waters > are. If > > there's less of a difference, you can cut the water exchange > > intervals > back > > to every 10 minutes -- for about an hour and a half. If this > > difference > is > > greater, you'll need to take more time. This will ensure that he > > gets > used > > to these new water parameters slowly. > > > > If you're still not sure how to proceed, just run it by us after > giving us > > all the test result numbers and we'll advise you from here. Oh, and > > if > you > > don't have an airpump and airstone, just keep scooping his bucket > water up > > with a cup and pouring it back in (from a height, so as to agitate > > his > water > > actively) every 5 minutes or so as you acclimate him. Ray > > > > > > > > > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>, "Cee Jaye" <CeeJayee@> wrote: > > > > > > I have a question, I moved yesterday evening & have an Oscar. He > > > is approximately 1 & 1/2yrs old (don't know if that makes a > difference;) I > > have > > > had him since the size of about a 1/2 dollar. . . > > > > > > My question is this. . . He has been at my ex-husband's house & > > > they > didn > > t > > > really do any "maintenance" . . . Just added water when it got low > & fed > > him > > > . . > > > > > > I put him in a bucket to move him with as much of his old water as > > possible. > > > I set up his tank this am & have the filter running (which I > cleaned up) > > > I > > > have things like stress coat, novaqua, amquel, prime, etc. Should > I add > > > those to the water & let it run awhile before adding him? I put > some of > > his > > > old water into the tank & then enough new water to run the filter > to get > > it > > > going & I added some new water to his bucket. > > > > > > When do you think it would be ok to go ahead & add him to the > > > tank? I > have > > > him a long while & really do not want him to die on me. > > > Thanks > > > Tara

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 43287	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 9/10/2009
Subject: Gourami update

Okay I have the gourami in the 10 gallon tank by himself (I moved him last night). He's still huge, but he's doing okay (still going to get air at the surface, etc). Obviously he's not eating, but I didn't expect him too since he's so bloated looking. I have dosed day 2 meds this evening, will update tomorrow. Hopefully the Maracyn 2 works fast and I don't have to dose him for 10 days straight, I'd rather he got better after the first treatment (don't we all? LOL). Amber

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 43288	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 9/10/2009
Subject: Re: How Much Carbon?

A cup is 48 teaspoons or 16 tablespoons. (This is not your flatware teaspoon or tablespoon, but the ones that do the measurements when cooking.) So, a 1/2 cup is 24 teaspoons or 8 tablespoons. \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of bill 1433 Sent: Thursday, September 10, 2009 8:44 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] How Much Carbon? I appreciate that buddy BUT..........if ya could change all that to teaspoons, tablespoons, 1/4 cups or 1/2 cups, I'd be obliged to you. You must've missed that part of the post where I mentioned about not having a gram scale. But this 1st part went in Ye Olde Notebook for future reference. UNLESS your talking to use the ounce as per liquid measuremnet? In which case your calulation would put us at about 2/3's of a cup? Correct? And thank you, Bill --- On Thu, 9/10/09, Steve Szabo <steve@...> wrote: > From: Steve Szabo <steve@...> > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] How Much Carbon? > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Date: Thursday, September 10, 2009, 8:33 PM > Bill, > > Figure 28 grams to the ounce, to make it easy. That way, > your 150 grams > is equal to 5.3571428571428571428571428571429 ounces. If > you want to be > a bit more precise in your measurement, 1 ounce = > 28.349523125 gram, or, > 150 gram = 5.2910942924 ounce. > > Happy calculating. > > \\Steve// > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] > On Behalf Of bill 1433 > Sent: Thursday, September 10, 2009 5:17 PM > To: AquaticLife > Subject: [AquaticLife] How Much Carbon? > > I recently decided to use carbon but according to > the directions on the box, it's telling me to use a 1/2 > cup, > 8 Tablespoons per 10 gallons!  At this rate I would > not have enough > room for any other filter material in the box. > > The filter in question is an Aqua Clear 50 (200).  The > replacement > carbon packet comes to 150 grams.  Does anyone know > what this > would work out to by tablespoon or cup size as I don't have > a gram > scale for weight.  Again, by following the box > directions from AP, I > would be adding 1 1/2 cups of carbon to the power > filter!  NOT! > > Bill >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 43289	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 9/10/2009
Subject: Re: Oscar Question - (moved)

Most reputable sites all say the same thing... it's very difficult to sex an Oscar, especially a juvenile one. Here's Mongabay's profile on them and how to SEX them... http://fish.mongabay.com/species/Astronotus_ocellatus.html "SEX: Sexes are only distinguishable at spawning times when the female has a more obvious, rounded genital papilla." Page two of this Cichlid-Forum profile, http://www.cichlid-forum.com/articles/oscar_cichlid.php, says: "The only reliable method of determining the gender of an Oscar, is by netting them out of the tank, and holding them still while examining their genital area with a bright light available. It does take some practice to tell the difference, but the male's spawning tube points back towards the tail, and is located just in front of the opening of the anus. The female on the other hand, has a spawning tube that is less pointed, and points straight down. The female's genital area gives the impression of two openings including the anus." Please try to explain to your fish why they heck you are examining their anus so closely when he/she gives you that really dirty look whenever you come near it's tank. LOL I just realized your name is Tara, not CeeJaye. Sorry. When I scrolled down on this reply to remove all the footer information, I saw you signed the first email as Tara. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Cee Jaye Sent: Thursday, September 10, 2009 3:25 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Oscar Question - (moved) I added some Prime to the tank. I will get the kit as soon as possible & test the waters. He is a fabulous fish & I sure would hate for him to die. The reason I chose to get one again, was I had one as a teen & really enjoyed "him". . . I think they have a lot of personality!! So are there ways to tell a male from a female?? LOL THANK YOU so much for your help!!! I appreciate it! -------Original Message------- From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny Date: 9/10/2009 2:53:48 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Oscar Question - (moved) Since you are on a well water system, hopefully you do not have chlorine/chloramine in your water so you would not have to use a dechlor but using Prime in the beginning would be helpful at least until we are sure that your tank is properly "Cycled" (The Nitrogen Cycle) and that we know what your water parameters are like. I see that Ray has also replied and he covers a lot of things I did not cover, or covers them in different ways. I'm wondering about the "shock it" treatment to your well. I'm not sure why they would have to do that but maybe one of the well owners out here can answer that. I know about using a shock chemical treatment in a swimming pool but I'm not sure how that would work in a well. I did do a quick Google and saw that it entails using a heavy dose of chlorine when a well system has been contaminated with bacteria. http://www.maine.gov/dhhs/eng/water/Templates/Sections/Field%20Services/well Shockingfactsheet.htm I'm not sure how long this process lasts and/or if there would be residual chlorine in your water so hopefully you used the Prime on the tank water, otherwise if there was chlorine in the well water, any good bacteria that might have survived your filter cleaning would certainly be killed off with the chlorinated water. If the shock treatment has worn out and there was no residual chlorine, the bacteria would still only live for so long without a food source (fish urine, ammonia from decaying detritus, etc.) so you will still need to test your tank daily after adding your Oscar to make sure you do not have cycling issues. Instead of just getting a pH test kit, you can get a complete Master Test Kit for $15 - $17 from Walmart.com, with free shipping to your local store. That's the best bargain on the internet right now, AFAIK. Here's the links... http://www.walmart.com/catalog/product.do?product_id=3635493 http://www.walmart.com/catalog/product.do?product_id=3635399 Each kit is slightly inadequate. The top link to the API kit includes pH, ammonia, nitrite, nitrate but does not test for GH & KH (General Hardness & Carbonate Hardness). The 2nd link is to the Tetratest-Laborette kit and includes pH, ammonia, nitrite, GH, KH and CO2 but does not include the Nitrate test kit. API does sell a separate Nitrate kit and/or a separate GH/KH test kit so depending on which brand you choose above, you could get the added on kit and still have a full master kit for under $25.00. So to recap, yes, use the Prime on the tank before starting the acclimation process. Add a pinch of salt per 10G to help prevent nitrite poisoning if you get a nitrite spike. Yes, good old fashioned plain table salt (NaCL = Sodium Chloride) is fine... that stuff they sell as "aquarium salt" is the exact same thing for about 10 times the price. Even if all you have is Iodized Salt, that's still OK. Iodide is at such a small level and will not affect aquarium fish and only at higher levels, in ponds, where the sunlight affects the Iodide, does it become a possible issue. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Cee Jaye Sent: Thursday, September 10, 2009 12:46 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Oscar Question - (moved) Thank you for all the info - I didn't "thoroughly" clean the filter, but rinsed some of it out, as it was barely running water through. I didn't do anything to the tank water yet, as I wanted to see the recommendation first. Regular table salt? I have not added him to the tank yet, & still have him in the bucket, he's ok but I am worried about him being in there. . The move unfortunately was sudden:( This is a well system, so I am not sure how different it is from city systems - I know the water has been tested. It was treated a month or so ago, with shock it or something?? But there is not filtration system on the "well" water at this time. I do not have my pH test kit as I need to get a new one - I couldn't find the one I had there with the fish at my ex's house. Thank you for all the helpful info! Tara -------Original Message------- From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny Date: 9/10/2009 1:19:05 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Oscar Question - (moved) I wish you would have asked us before you made the move but we'll help as Best we can now. When you cleaned the filter, how did you clean it? If you cleaned it Thoroughly, then you also may have killed off all of the good nitrifying Bacteria that lives mostly in the filter media. This means you will likely Have Nitrogen Cycle issues like on a newly set up tank. When you set up the tank again, which dechlor product did you use to treat Your tap water? Since you have Prime, I would use it as your dechlor product for the next Month or two and then you can switch to a lower cost dechlor. DO NOT use All the other stuff you have. You will still have to go through the Nitrogen cycle and do frequent PWC's (partial water changes) to keep the Ammonia and nitrite levels down to reasonably safe levels but the Prime will Help in making the ammonia less toxic. Add a pinch of salt per 10G to help Prevent nitrite poisoning when you get your nitrite spike. Do you have a Master Test Kit for testing the water for things like ammonia, Nitrite, nitrate, pH, etc.? Let us know which tests you do have, if any. If you did use a dechlor on the tank water, then you can start SLOWLY acclimating him to the new water since he has lived in the funky water for so long. It would help to know the water parameters of the water he was living in and the new water but absent that, you should probably set up a drip line to add tank water to his bucket. Here's a page about acclimating fish which includes this method of acclimation which starts about 1/2 way down on the page. http://www.csupomona.edu/~jskoga/Aquariums/Acclimation.html Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Cee Jaye Sent: Thursday, September 10, 2009 11:43 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Oscar Question - (moved) I have a question, I moved yesterday evening & have an Oscar. He is approximately 1 & 1/2yrs old (don't know if that makes a difference;) I have had him since the size of about a 1/2 dollar. . . My question is this. . . He has been at my ex-husband's house & they didn't really do any "maintenance" . . . Just added water when it got low & fed him . . I put him in a bucket to move him with as much of his old water as possible. I set up his tank this am & have the filter running (which I cleaned up). I have things like stress coat, novaqua, amquel, prime, etc. Should I add those to the water & let it run awhile before adding him? I put some of his old water into the tank & then enough new water to run the filter to get it going & I added some new water to his bucket. When do you think it would be ok to go ahead & add him to the tank? I have him a long while & really do not want him to die on me. Thanks Tara

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 43290	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 9/10/2009
Subject: Re: How Much Carbon?

You should have a measuring cup and almost all of them have ounces and ml's on them. For simple non-precise measuring, 1ml = 1gm. For liquid measuring, 500ml is close to 16 oz., so 250ml is close to 8 oz., 125ml is close to 4 oz., etc. These are only estimated measurements for something like carbon... not for when more precise measurements are needed. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of bill 1433 Sent: Thursday, September 10, 2009 7:44 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] How Much Carbon? I appreciate that buddy BUT..........if ya could change all that to teaspoons, tablespoons, 1/4 cups or 1/2 cups, I'd be obliged to you. You must've missed that part of the post where I mentioned about not having a gram scale. But this 1st part went in Ye Olde Notebook for future reference. UNLESS your talking to use the ounce as per liquid measuremnet? In which case your calulation would put us at about 2/3's of a cup? Correct? And thank you, Bill --- On Thu, 9/10/09, Steve Szabo <steve@...> wrote: > From: Steve Szabo <steve@...> > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] How Much Carbon? > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Date: Thursday, September 10, 2009, 8:33 PM Bill, > > Figure 28 grams to the ounce, to make it easy. That way, your 150 > grams is equal to 5.3571428571428571428571428571429 ounces. If you > want to be a bit more precise in your measurement, 1 ounce = > 28.349523125 gram, or, > 150 gram = 5.2910942924 ounce. > > Happy calculating. > > \\Steve// > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] > On Behalf Of bill 1433 > Sent: Thursday, September 10, 2009 5:17 PM > To: AquaticLife > Subject: [AquaticLife] How Much Carbon? > > I recently decided to use carbon but according to the directions on > the box, it's telling me to use a 1/2 cup, > 8 Tablespoons per 10 gallons!  At this rate I would not have enough > room for any other filter material in the box. > > The filter in question is an Aqua Clear 50 (200).  The replacement > carbon packet comes to 150 grams.  Does anyone know what this would > work out to by tablespoon or cup size as I don't have a gram scale for > weight.  Again, by following the box directions from AP, I would be > adding 1 1/2 cups of carbon to the power filter!  NOT! > > Bill

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 43291	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 9/10/2009
Subject: Re: Gourami update

If you read the instructions, even after he appears to be fully healed, continue on at least the full initial treatment... hopefully not the 10 day treatment.. but if he doesn't look normal until day 8, then continue for the 10 days. After Katrina, I only had Melafix/Pimafix and if I recall correctly, it took about a week before mine started to look normal again and even developed pop-eye in one eye before he started to turn around. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Amber Berglund Sent: Thursday, September 10, 2009 8:30 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Gourami update Okay I have the gourami in the 10 gallon tank by himself (I moved him last night). He's still huge, but he's doing okay (still going to get air at the surface, etc). Obviously he's not eating, but I didn't expect him too since he's so bloated looking. I have dosed day 2 meds this evening, will update tomorrow. Hopefully the Maracyn 2 works fast and I don't have to dose him for 10 days straight, I'd rather he got better after the first treatment (don't we all? LOL). Amber

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 43292	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 9/10/2009
Subject: Re: Gourami update

The directions said 5 days and continue if needed for a 2nd 5 day treatment. I will keep an eye on him though and if he still looks even slightly swollen at 5 days I will continue the meds until he looks better again (or 10 days whichever comes first). Amber Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > > > If you read the instructions, even after he appears to be fully healed, > continue on at least the full initial treatment... hopefully not the > 10 day > treatment.. but if he doesn't look normal until day 8, then continue > for the > 10 days. > > After Katrina, I only had Melafix/Pimafix and if I recall correctly, > it took > about a week before mine started to look normal again and even developed > pop-eye in one eye before he started to turn around. > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right > side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On > Behalf Of Amber Berglund > Sent: Thursday, September 10, 2009 8:30 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Subject: [AquaticLife] Gourami update > > Okay I have the gourami in the 10 gallon tank by himself (I moved him last > night). He's still huge, but he's doing okay (still going to get air > at the > surface, etc). Obviously he's not eating, but I didn't expect him too > since > he's so bloated looking. > I have dosed day 2 meds this evening, will update tomorrow. Hopefully the > Maracyn 2 works fast and I don't have to dose him for 10 days > straight, I'd > rather he got better after the first treatment (don't we all? LOL). > > Amber > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 43293	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 9/10/2009
Subject: Re: Gourami update

Your other option, if you wanted to save money and/or save your Maracyn-2, is to do a series of PWC's (which also means 24 hours of fresh water) and then start on a Melafix/Pimafix cocktail (at 25% to 50% dosage only) since those two meds are much less expensive than Maracyn-2 and IF the first round of Maracyn-2 has mostly healed up the little guy/gal. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Amber Berglund Sent: Thursday, September 10, 2009 9:03 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Gourami update The directions said 5 days and continue if needed for a 2nd 5 day treatment. I will keep an eye on him though and if he still looks even slightly swollen at 5 days I will continue the meds until he looks better again (or 10 days whichever comes first). Amber Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > > > If you read the instructions, even after he appears to be fully > healed, continue on at least the full initial treatment... hopefully > not the 10 day treatment.. but if he doesn't look normal until day 8, > then continue for the 10 days. > > After Katrina, I only had Melafix/Pimafix and if I recall correctly, > it took about a week before mine started to look normal again and even > developed pop-eye in one eye before he started to turn around. > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> (Links to any articles referenced in > above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels > and also under Archives by Year, Month) > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On Behalf Of Amber Berglund > Sent: Thursday, September 10, 2009 8:30 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Subject: [AquaticLife] Gourami update > > Okay I have the gourami in the 10 gallon tank by himself (I moved him > last night). He's still huge, but he's doing okay (still going to get > air at the surface, etc). Obviously he's not eating, but I didn't > expect him too since he's so bloated looking. > I have dosed day 2 meds this evening, will update tomorrow. Hopefully > the Maracyn 2 works fast and I don't have to dose him for 10 days > straight, I'd rather he got better after the first treatment (don't we > all? LOL). > > Amber

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 43294	From: bill 1433	Date: 9/10/2009
Subject: Re: Oscar Question - (moved) (additional questions too)

Because I didn't want to scare her! She's dealing with enough just giving him the proper care he needs right now. If she keeps to that water change schedule you gave a bit ago and feeds him well, including some good old fashioned earthworms from time to time, that fish will easily be a foot by next year at this time. He should hit that 8 or 9 inch mark by Christmas! Lenny, that tank rule does not always hold true with Oscars. Most especially with good water changes, plenty of food and good tank maintenance. I've seen poor Oscars that could not turn around in a 20-gallon long. Many times its all how well they are treated and taken care of. If their needs are met, the sky's the limit. Big tanks are always preferred and in the 18 inch wide range. But till that time you can make an Oscar very happy with good clean water and lots of it. Filter changes as necessary and a good diet. We all know those boys love it eat! They are great people fish. Bill --- On Thu, 9/10/09, Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@...> wrote: > From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@...> > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: Oscar Question - (moved) (additional questions too) > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Date: Thursday, September 10, 2009, 8:56 PM > Why do you say only another 2 > inches?  Oscars grow to much larger than 9" in > the proper sized tank.  Now, stuck in a 20G or 30G, > yes he probably won't > grow much larger. > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed > on the right > side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives > by Year, Month) > > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] > On > Behalf Of bill 1433 > Sent: Thursday, September 10, 2009 5:10 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: Oscar Question - (moved) > (additional > questions too) > > He may STILL grow a tiny bit----about another 2 inches. > Even a 55-gallon for him will not allow him to turn around > much.  A 75 at 18 > inches wide will give him the room he will need. >   > Bill > > --- On Thu, 9/10/09, Cee Jaye <CeeJayee@...> > wrote: > > > From: Cee Jaye <CeeJayee@...> > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: Oscar Question - (moved) > (additional > questions too) > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Date: Thursday, September 10, 2009, 5:35 PM > > > Thanks for the reply, too, Amber;) > I have been VERY lucky with my guy!! I got (what I assume:) > a healthy fish > when I bought & he has dealt with his conditions well! > I am so glad to have > him back!! I hope that all will go well & he will make > an adjustment & I can > get back to getting him used to me & paying attention > to him the way I > want:) > Wow! LOL I didn't know people fed them crickets! :) I will > definitely add > him some because I get some for the turtles;) He's good > sized. . . From > reading on the net, I am guessing he is close to the > average size for his > age, but I think it is hindered some by his tank & I > can't wait to get him a > new one!!:)) I'd guess he is a good 7-8" but not positive > on that. May be > closer to 7. > Thanks! > Tara > > > -------Original Message------- > > From: Amber Berglund > Date: 9/10/2009 5:28:20 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: Oscar Question - (moved) > (additional > questions too) > > I like to feed my fish a variety of foods, and you'll > definitely want to get > your oscar a bigger tank (even bigger than 55 gallon would > be better as they > are dirty fish as I'm sure you know already, LOL). > Fish are okay to feed them but I feel it's safer to feed > them other live > "critters" such as meal worms and crickets, as fish can > often carry a > disease especially cheap "feeder" goldfish. > It is fine to mix pellets with live foods as well as frozen > foods if you can > get your hands on some (frozen brine shrimp, and blood > worms are often good > ones, mysis shrimp will probably be too small for your > oscar unless "he" is > still small). > 2 or so hours of adding/removing your tank/well water > should be sufficient > in acclimating him, just watch to see how he is acting and > if he seems > stressed perhaps give him some more time to acclimate to > the new water. > Oscars are usually pretty hardy though and you shouldn't > have too many > problems acclimating him, just depends on if he was in good > health when you > picked him up from your Ex's. > > Amber > > Cee Jaye wrote: > > > > > > Yup, he is definitely the only fish:) > > > > Ok, so in acclimating him slowly, I can remove a cup > or so of water > > from the bucket, and add a cup of "new" water? Dumping > the water > > removed from the bucket down the drain. . . > > I just have the "well" water. . . > > He hasn't always been in this "yucky" water, only for > the last 6-7 MOS > > (I know its still a long time) before that I made sure > that I took > > care to keep his water cleaner, etc, but I haven't > been able to get up > > there as much recently. Plus, they had recently began > feeding him > > fish, which of course, makes the water yuckier, with > no changing, etc. > > I will change his water slowly, after 2 or so hrs of > adding water to > > his bucket. & removing equal amount each time, > will he be acclimated? > > Actually his tank is small (20 or 30gal) & I am in > the process of > > getting him a new tank. Which, when I do, I will be > sure to get advice > > on the switch first!! So that could be the next thing > ya'll tell me if > > ya can:) I am working on searching one up for him > & have been asking > > around. . . See, I had a 55 gal for him, but it was in > storage & I > > lost that a few MOS ago:(( so I have to work on > replacing it now. > > What do you recommend for feeding/feeding schedule for > him? > > The one I had as a teen, we fed him goldfish. I don't > know if that is > > an appropriate food source for them. . I thought there > was something > > wrong with that? I fed him pellets & he ate those > fine. But my ex- & > > his girlfriend started feeding him fish. > > I guess he would still take pellets. Are they > adequate? > > Thanks so much for all the help!! > > Tara > > > > -------Original Message------- > > > > From: sevenspringss > > Date: 9/10/2009 3:05:20 PM > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Oscar Question - (moved) > > > > Ordinarily, especially as he'll be the only fish in > the new tank (he > > thoroughly used to the old water he's in), and his old > water is not > > carrying a disease, it's preferable to use as much of > his water as you > > can -- as you have brought along -- provided his water > parameters are > > safe. As you don't have test kits, we have to assume > the worst case > > scenario and figure on his water being adverse to the > tap water in pH > > (which it most probably is anyway), and has levels of > ammonium, > > nitrite and nitrate -- even if it doesn t -- just to > play it safe. > > When acclimating him then, any water that you remove > from his bucket > > while doing this should be discarded down the drain > and not added to > > the tank. > > > > Okay, I see that the bucket is a 5 gallon one -- > that'a about the > > "standard" > > size. I suddenly see you mentioning "well water," > whereas I hadn't > > seen that before. If you've stated such, I must have > missed it. If > > this is your own private well water, you needn't use > the Prime -- > > unless the amount of his bucket water you've already > added to the tank > > is considerable, but being only a 5 gallon bucket I > find that > > improbable. Please know though, that your well water > could have at > > least the same pH as your tap water, if not higher if > it runs through > > limestone deposits. Then too, it could be on the > acidic side if it's > > not an especially deep well. If you feel "safer" using > well water, > > then use half well water and half tap water, with > Prime (half the > > dosage), since you don't have a pH test kit. > > > > keep up with agitating his water and proceed the > acclamation, dumping > > a pint or pint and a half every 10 to 15 minutes, > allowing him to get > > use to this mix slowly. Do this for up to 2 hours in > this case -- > > again treating the situation as though it were at > extremes (even > > though it may not be, but we can't know that) -- if > you have the time. > > Otherwise, at LEAST an hour; preferable 1 1/2 hours or > longer, to the > > 2 hours. Let us know how you make out with him. He > should be fine, > > especially the longer you take acclimating him, with > the least but > > practical amount of water you change out each time. > > I really do suspect that with maintaining him in the > same water for 1 > > 1/2 years with little or no maintenance, nor partial > water changes, > > that his pH HAS to be at least 6.0 or lower, so go > slow. BTW, how big > > of a tank are you putting him in? Ray > > > > > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>, "Cee > Jaye" <CeeJayee@...> wrote: > > > > > > Thank you very much for the information & > help too:) I appreciate > > > it. I > > didn > > > t expect to suddenly move him like that . . :( I > don't have a test > > > kit right now. . . & now I am worried about > ph:(( I > > don > > > t want to loose him. . . > > > The only think I can hope is that "well" water is > different than tap > > (which > > > I am sure it must be) & hopefully will not be > as much of a shock for > > him. > > I > > > am going to ask my ex to see if he knows where > the test kit I had > > was. . > > I > > > had all that stuff;( > > > The bucket is about 5 gal, & it prob has > about 4 gal in (maybe a > > > little less). I have been taking a cup & > pouring his water several > > > times now & > > then > > > to "mix" up the air/water. > > > Tara > > > > > > -------Original Message------- > > > > > > From: sevenspringss > > > Date: 9/10/2009 1:44:25 PM > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Oscar Question - > (moved) > > > > > > Tara, If it's at all possible, put an airstone > (running) in his > > bucket to > > > provide a turnover of the water, to enable a > better transfer of > > oxygen. I > > > hope you have aquarium water test kits (please > let us know). As your > > > ex-husband had only been topping off the tank > when the water got low > > and > > > really didn't do any maintenance, the Oscar's > water in the bucket is > > most > > > probably quite acidic and probably high in > nitrates; it may even > > have some > > > ammonium and/or nitrite. Most water companies > provide water with a > > pH of > > > over 7.0, usually in the vicinity of pH 7.4 to > 7.6 (but could be > > > higher depending on local conditions). If this > Oscar is put directly > > > into this probably much higher pH (from most > likely a pH of 6.0 -- > > > or LOWER), it > > will > > > suffer pH shock. You've already added some of his > bucket water to > > > the > > tank, > > > as I read. If there is any ammonium in his water, > this will be > > > released > > as > > > toxic ammonia as it mixes with the much higher pH > tap water; > > actually, the > > > more of his bucket water you add to this higher > pH tap water, the > > > more > > toxic > > > this mix will become -- IF it now has ammonium. > You need to test his > > water > > > for ammonia, nitrite, nitrate and pH and test the > tap water for pH. > > > > > > If his bucket water has no ammonia (ammonium, > when the pH is below > > > 7.0), > > it > > > s safe to add the Oscar and his water to the > tank, with certain > > provisions > > > > > as long as you do it SLOWLY. Of the four water > conditioner use the > > PRIME. > > > You will need to use this to neutralize the > chloramine in the tap > > > water, > > but > > > at the same time this product will also take care > of any ammonium > > > that > > might > > > be in his water when adding an additional amount, > rendering this > > ammonium > > > non-toxic. Knowing the amount (if any) of > ammonium in his water will > > give > > > you some idea of how much extra Prime you need to > use. > > > > > > Now, if his pH is much different than that of the > tap water, you'll > > > need > > to > > > acclimate him over to the new water slowly, to > prevent pH shock. The > > wider > > > the difference between these two pH's, the more > time you'll need to > > > take > > in > > > adjusting him over. You can do this by removing > (and if not > > > containing ammonium, nitrite or nitrate -- this > last one especially > > > if it's only at > > 40 > > > PPM or below), a small portion of his water and > adding an equal > > amount of > > > the tank water (at the same temperature) to his > bucket a number of > > times. > > > As he'll be the sole occupant of this tank, you > may add his bucket > > discard > > > water to his tank -- if it doesn't contain > ammonium, nitrite or > > > higher levels of nitrate much above 40 ppm, > otherwise just discard > > > down the > > drain > > > > > > > > I don't know how large this bucket is, you > haven't said, but if it's > > a 5 > > > gallon bucket for instance, with about 4 gallons > of water in it, you > > can > > > change out about a pint and a half to a quart of > water each time, > > every 10 > > > or 15 minutes for about 2 hours. This would be if > his water is much > > > different than the tap water, as the length of > this acclimation > > > process depends directly on how similar or how > different these two > > > waters > > are. If > > > there's less of a difference, you can cut the > water exchange > > > intervals > > back > > > to every 10 minutes -- for about an hour and a > half. If this > > > difference > > is > > > greater, you'll need to take more time. This will > ensure that he > > > gets > > used > > > to these new water parameters slowly. > > > > > > If you're still not sure how to proceed, just run > it by us after > > giving us > > > all the test result numbers and we'll advise you > from here. Oh, and > > > if > > you > > > don't have an airpump and airstone, just keep > scooping his bucket > > water up > > > with a cup and pouring it back in (from a height, > so as to agitate > > > his > > water > > > actively) every 5 minutes or so as you acclimate > him. Ray > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>, "Cee > Jaye" <CeeJayee@> wrote: > > > > > > > > I have a question, I moved yesterday evening > & have an Oscar. He > > > > is approximately 1 & 1/2yrs old (don't > know if that makes a > > difference;) I > > > have > > > > had him since the size of about a 1/2 > dollar. . . > > > > > > > > My question is this. . . He has been at my > ex-husband's house & > > > > they > > didn > > > t > > > > really do any "maintenance" . . . Just added > water when it got low > > & fed > > > him > > > > . . > > > > > > > > I put him in a bucket to move him with as > much of his old water as > > > possible. > > > > I set up his tank this am & have the > filter running (which I > > cleaned up) > > > > > I > > > > have things like stress coat, novaqua, > amquel, prime, etc. Should > > I add > > > > those to the water & let it run awhile > before adding him? I put > > some of > > > his > > > > old water into the tank & then enough > new water to run the filter > > to get > > > it > > > > going & I added some new water to his > bucket. > > > > > > > > When do you think it would be ok to go ahead > & add him to the > > > > tank? I > > have > > > > him a long while & really do not want > him to die on me. > > > > Thanks > > > > Tara > > > > ------------------------------------ > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when > replying, Thank You. > ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> > ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> > PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is > NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of > the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new > subject (was re: old subject)" <- > <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. > , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. > > If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of > unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by > clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the home page.  > > Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com > to receive the digest, which includes up to 25 posts at a > time in a single email > > Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com > for the No E-Mail option where you will still be able to > read messages on the group and post replies. > > Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com > to receive individual e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links > > >     mailto:AquaticLife-fullfeatured@yahoogroups.com > > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 43295	From: bill 1433	Date: 9/10/2009
Subject: Re: How Much Carbon?

Lenny, Thanks I found your information interesting. Your saying in your opinion that this stuff is better than Carbon? What would be the difference between this and Poly Pad? I found this link but can't see the actual product: http://www.marinedepot.com/ps_ViewItem.aspx?category=Seachem_Purigen_Carbon_Replacements_Resin_Chemical_Filter_Media&vendor=Seachem&idProduct=SC3231&idCategory=FIFMCHRM Anything you can add? Bill --- On Thu, 9/10/09, Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@...> wrote: > From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@...> > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] How Much Carbon? > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Date: Thursday, September 10, 2009, 8:52 PM > I would use the least amount possible > since it's only good for a couple of > weeks anyhow.  Of course, the manufacturer is going to > tell you to use > plenty... that means they sell more when you run out > quicker.  As far as how > much you use, it really depends on the bioload of the tank > or the purpose > for using it.  > > The AC-50 would be big enough for you to use a 100ml of > Purigen, which would > be much better than using carbon and it's much less costly > in the long run. > It comes in it's own filter bag and would lay down > perfectly as the top > layer or 2nd from top layer of filtration... with maybe the > bio-media as the > top/front layer. > > As far as measuring, you can pretty much use grams and ml > since 1ml of water > weighs 1gm but for things that have a higher or lower mass > (weight) than > water, it will not calculate exactly but for this purpose, > it will be close > enough. > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed > on the right > side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives > by Year, Month) > > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] > On > Behalf Of bill 1433 > Sent: Thursday, September 10, 2009 4:17 PM > To: AquaticLife > Subject: [AquaticLife] How Much Carbon? > > I recently decided to use carbon but according to the > directions on the box, > it's telling me to use a 1/2 cup, > 8 Tablespoons per 10 gallons!  At this rate I would > not have enough room for > any other filter material in the box. > > The filter in question is an Aqua Clear 50 (200).  The > replacement carbon > packet comes to 150 grams.  Does anyone know what this > would work out to by > tablespoon or cup size as I don't have a gram scale for > weight.  Again, by > following the box directions from AP, I would be adding 1 > 1/2 cups of carbon > to the power filter!  NOT! > > Bill > > > > > > ------------------------------------ > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when > replying, Thank You. > ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> > ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> > PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is > NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of > the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new > subject (was re: old subject)" <- > <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. > , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. > > If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of > unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by > clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the home page.  > > Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com > to receive the digest, which includes up to 25 posts at a > time in a single email > > Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com > for the No E-Mail option where you will still be able to > read messages on the group and post replies. > > Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com > to receive individual e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links > > >     mailto:AquaticLife-fullfeatured@yahoogroups.com > > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 43296	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 9/10/2009
Subject: Re: Baby Hillstream Loaches! yay!

If anyone would like to see a picture of the baby loaches here is a link below: http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2551/3907954955_7221c6c104_o.jpg cute little guys, I've seen at least 2 out at a time, not sure how many I have in there, hard to tell with how over grown the plants have gotten lately ;) LOL. Amber Amber Berglund wrote: > Lol, so for once I actually have good news instead of bad news with my > fish ;) > I actually managed to end up with some baby hillstream loaches. I saw > one swimming around on the bottom of the tank looking for food, I > thought it was a baby guppy until I looked closely. It's only about a > quarter of an inch long including it's tiny little fins (they don't > have very long tail fins though). I'm glad I ended up with babies, i > got discouraged a bit when I saw that one of them had died last week > (with my 2 ram's) after I unplugged the UV filter :( > I still have at least 4 adults from what I could see (one might be > hiding), there should be 5 of them left plus the babies now though. > Oh and my poor snail must've not pulled through, I'm not sure if > putting him in a bowl was a good thing or not, or perhaps it was just > too late (didn't get air fast enough after his lung filled with > water). I had to throw the poor guy away when I got home from work today. > And I also had another snail/filter intake incident, thought it had > small enough slots and apparently the snail stayed for a snack long > enough to get his/her face sucked into the filter *sigh* it's still > moving and I'm waiting for it to remove itself from the filter on it's > own, sometimes it takes a few hours since they swell up due to loss of > blood flow in their bodies. poor thing :( > > Amber

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 43297	From: pam andress	Date: 9/10/2009
Subject: Re: Baby Hillstream Loaches! yay!

Thats wonderful Amber! And you were so worried when you got them. Didn't take long for them to figure out what to do. :) Pam If anyone would like to see a picture of the baby loaches here is a link below: http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2551/3907954955_7221c6c104_o.jpg cute little guys, I've seen at least 2 out at a time, not sure how many I have in there, hard to tell with how over grown the plants have gotten lately ;) LOL. Amber . [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 43298	From: Lisa Lawless	Date: 9/10/2009
Subject: Should all else fail...Was - How much carbon?-

Hi...Apoligies bill, i had to cross post, cause i can't access the groups main page from this computer...   But my question is... When i move into my new place. And the day comes to move my tank. If all precautions are taken, and correct methods are used....but ends up causing me to loose all my fish... would i have to fishless 're-cycle' my tank for 8 weeks again before i add anything?   Or -having tried to save as much existing water as i can- would i be able to start restocking again within days?   Thanks Lisa   __________________________________________________________________________________ Find local businesses and services in your area with Yahoo!7 Local. Get started: http://local.yahoo.com.au [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 43299	From: courtland_jacob	Date: 9/10/2009
Subject: baton rouge

maybe i've already asked this, but I hear there is a cichlid breeder in baton rouge, i know the local store here gets his cichlids from them, is there anyone from louisiana or around baton rouge that knows of this breeder and how to contact them?

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 43300	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 9/10/2009
Subject: Re: Should all else fail...Was - How much carbon?-

It's not the water you have to keep but the filter cartridges, those are what the bacteria cling to and grow on. Keep that in mind when doing your cleaning, any chlorine will kill them, so therefor if your well water has any chlorine in it it will kill the bacteria very quickly on contact. Amber Lisa Lawless wrote: > > > Hi...Apoligies bill, i had to cross post, cause i can't access the > groups main page from this computer... > > But my question is... > When i move into my new place. And the day comes to move my tank. > If all precautions are taken, and correct methods are used....but ends > up causing me to loose all my fish... would i have to fishless > 're-cycle' my tank for 8 weeks again before i add anything? > > Or -having tried to save as much existing water as i can- would i be > able to start restocking again within days? > > Thanks > Lisa > > > > __________________________________________________________ > Find local businesses and services in your area with Yahoo!7 Local. > Get started: http://local.yahoo.com.au <http://local.yahoo.com.au> > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 43301	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 9/11/2009
Subject: Re: How Much Carbon?

Here's SeaChem's info on their product. http://www.seachem.com/Products/product_pages/Purigen.html As with most advanced products, it started off as a product for SW fish keepers so they "tested" it for us FW fish keepers, so to speak. For me, the regeneration/cleaning process is much easier than the instructions say, for FW. As you will see in the instructions, for SW tanks, Purigen only needs to be soaked in a bleach solution for 24 hours, then in a dechlor solution for 24 hours in order to be cleaned/regenerated. For FW, SeaChem recommends also soaking in a buffer solution after the dechlor soak, but for folks with hard water, this step is not needed. In your case, it will probably be needed. I haven't done any online research in a few years on this product but I suspect people are making their own buffer solution, rather than buying one of the bottled products that SeaChem recommends, mainly their own buffering products. Here's a snip from the above site... "Regeneration: Soak in a 1:1 bleach:water solution for 24 hours in a non-metallic container in a well ventilated area and away from children. Rinse well, then soak for 8 hours with a solution containing 2 tablespoons of ChlorGuard™, Prime®, or equivalent dechlorinator per cup of water. Rinse well. For freshwater use, soak for 4 hours with a solution containing 1 tablespoon of buffer per cup of water (Discus Buffer™, Neutral Regulator™, or Acid Buffer™). Original color and full activity should now be restored and Purigen® is ready for reuse. Caution: some slime coat products may permanently foul Purigen® and render regeneration difficult. Do not reuse if odor of chlorine is detectable. In case of doubt, soak beads in small quantity of water and test for residual chlorine with a chlorine test kit." (END SNIP) Since my tap water is rather hard and higher pH (closer to what SW would use), I decided to test whether I would need this 3rd buffer soak step and ran the Purigen on a test tank (no fish) after just the bleach and dechlor stages and the Purigen did NOT affect my pH or hardness levels. Since the 3rd buffer soak step is not needed for use on SW tanks, I figured it can't be dangerous as we know that SW fish are more sensitive to water parameters than our FW fish. I still get slightly confused when reading about this buffer soak process because it seems contradictory to the fact that it's not needed for SW tanks. For example, we know that a SW tank would have a much higher pH (over 8.0) and much harder water yet the 3rd step, the buffer soak that SeaChem instructs is using products that are used for lowering the pH and softening the water in the case of the Discus Buffer and Neutral Regulator products, so I'm not really sure how these products aid in the regeneration process. As I stated above, I decided against using this 3rd step after testing and after reading this from other FW fish keepers with hard water. I guess in your case, you might want to look at some of the other advanced filtration products that can be regenerated as well, that might work better with soft water, low-pH water. I don't want to steer you towards something you might find a PITA to use. As far as the Poly Filter product you mentioned, while it may be a good product (I'm not positive as I haven't read enough on it or used it to make an informed decision), it is like carbon and cannot be cleaned/reused. Here's DFS' page on it, http://www.drsfostersmith.com/product/prod_display.cfm?c=3578+4136+4335&pcat id=4335, and their directions indicate that it can last "for months" depending on the tank. It looks to be a LOT more expensive than Purigen but if it does what it says it does and the price isn't an object, then it seems like it would be OK. I don't like how they use such a generic name "poly filter" since this term is used in the industry for the basic poly pad filter material and I'm wondering if they didn't pick this name to try and trick unsuspecting people into buying their product when they were looking for a plain and simple poly filter media like http://www.drsfostersmith.com/product/prod_display.cfm?c=3578+4136+4150+4231 &pcatid=4231. When a company picks a product name that appears to be word play to possibly mislead folks, I automatically dislike the product... for example, "Aquarium Salt", which is a complete rip-off to unsuspecting fish keepers since it costs 10X more than regular salt and it's the same exact product. Even you, who has read about this product referred to it as "Poly Pad" in your below reply which further illustrates how they named their product to take advantage of the generic term, "Poly Pad", which comes in many styles and is simply a basic mechanical/biological filtration product. At least with Purigen, one of the things I really like about it is that it changes colors from near white to dark brown as it gets dirty, so you can see when it needs to be cleaned/regenerated (which the "Poly Filter" product also does). Depending on the tank, bioload, etc., it could last weeks or even months before needing to be cleaned/regenerated. I use two 100ml packets on my goldfish tank and probably alternate cleaning/regenerating each packet every other month (so each packet lasts around 2 months for me before cleaning) where with carbon, I would be throwing the stuff away every couple of weeks. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of bill 1433 Sent: Thursday, September 10, 2009 10:23 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] How Much Carbon? Lenny, Thanks I found your information interesting. Your saying in your opinion that this stuff is better than Carbon? What would be the difference between this and Poly Pad? I found this link but can't see the actual product: http://www.marinedepot.com/ps_ViewItem.aspx?category=Seachem_Purigen_Carbon_ Replacements_Resin_Chemical_Filter_Media&vendor=Seachem&idProduct=SC3231&idC ategory=FIFMCHRM Anything you can add? Bill --- On Thu, 9/10/09, Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@...> wrote: > From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@...> > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] How Much Carbon? > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Date: Thursday, September 10, 2009, 8:52 PM I would use the least > amount possible since it's only good for a couple of weeks anyhow.  Of > course, the manufacturer is going to tell you to use plenty... that > means they sell more when you run out quicker.  As far as how much you > use, it really depends on the bioload of the tank or the purpose for > using it. > > The AC-50 would be big enough for you to use a 100ml of Purigen, which > would be much better than using carbon and it's much less costly in > the long run. > It comes in it's own filter bag and would lay down perfectly as the > top layer or 2nd from top layer of filtration... with maybe the > bio-media as the top/front layer. > > As far as measuring, you can pretty much use grams and ml since 1ml of > water weighs 1gm but for things that have a higher or lower mass > (weight) than > water, it will not calculate exactly but for this purpose, it will be > close enough. > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles > referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically > under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) > > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] > On > Behalf Of bill 1433 > Sent: Thursday, September 10, 2009 4:17 PM > To: AquaticLife > Subject: [AquaticLife] How Much Carbon? > > I recently decided to use carbon but according to the > directions on the box, > it's telling me to use a 1/2 cup, > 8 Tablespoons per 10 gallons!  At this rate I would > not have enough room for > any other filter material in the box. > > The filter in question is an Aqua Clear 50 (200).  The > replacement carbon > packet comes to 150 grams.  Does anyone know what this > would work out to by > tablespoon or cup size as I don't have a gram scale for > weight.  Again, by > following the box directions from AP, I would be adding 1 > 1/2 cups of carbon > to the power filter!  NOT! > > Bill

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 43302	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 9/11/2009
Subject: Re: How Much Carbon?

One more thing to add. Here's an old forum thread, that I'm pretty sure I participated in at some point, about Purigen. You'll see where one poster actually took pics of their tannin stained water over the course of 36 hours to show how the Purigen cleaned it up a lot in just 36 hours. http://72.36.167.186/~thegab/forum/viewtopic.php?t=5283 The thread is 3 pages long so read through all the info and maybe look at some forum threads on SW fish forums. While TheGAB has a lot of knowledgeable goldfish keepers on the site, they simply will not budge from their goldfish care sheet which says 10G per goldfish and after being on that forum for a couple of years and constantly battling their BAD information, they banned me (LOL) when I started giving people a link to my Goldfish Care Sheet instead of theirs and/or explaining why 10G is simply not enough water volume for a fish that gets the size of goldfish. They still have some very good articles and information on the site... except for that damned goldfish care sheet page and the mod's reliance on 10G per goldfish being a suitable amount. This is a common problem with many books and internet sites. They do not want to change their recommendations because then they would be admitting that they were giving out BAD information for so long... so they stick to their BAD info instead of admitting they were just wrong or less-informed when they wrote the original information. Although, the folks on TheGAB are very experienced at treating sick goldfish... mainly because so many of their fish get sick from being in overstocked/undersized tanks (ARGGGHHHH!!!). Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of bill 1433 Sent: Thursday, September 10, 2009 10:23 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] How Much Carbon? Lenny, Thanks I found your information interesting. Your saying in your opinion that this stuff is better than Carbon? What would be the difference between this and Poly Pad? I found this link but can't see the actual product: http://www.marinedepot.com/ps_ViewItem.aspx?category=Seachem_Purigen_Carbon_ Replacements_Resin_Chemical_Filter_Media&vendor=Seachem&idProduct=SC3231&idC ategory=FIFMCHRM Anything you can add? Bill --- On Thu, 9/10/09, Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@...> wrote: > From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@...> > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] How Much Carbon? > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Date: Thursday, September 10, 2009, 8:52 PM I would use the least > amount possible since it's only good for a couple of weeks anyhow.  Of > course, the manufacturer is going to tell you to use plenty... that > means they sell more when you run out quicker.  As far as how much you > use, it really depends on the bioload of the tank or the purpose for > using it. > > The AC-50 would be big enough for you to use a 100ml of Purigen, which > would be much better than using carbon and it's much less costly in > the long run. > It comes in it's own filter bag and would lay down perfectly as the > top layer or 2nd from top layer of filtration... with maybe the > bio-media as the top/front layer. > > As far as measuring, you can pretty much use grams and ml since 1ml of > water weighs 1gm but for things that have a higher or lower mass > (weight) than > water, it will not calculate exactly but for this purpose, it will be > close enough. > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles > referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically > under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) > > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] > On > Behalf Of bill 1433 > Sent: Thursday, September 10, 2009 4:17 PM > To: AquaticLife > Subject: [AquaticLife] How Much Carbon? > > I recently decided to use carbon but according to the > directions on the box, > it's telling me to use a 1/2 cup, > 8 Tablespoons per 10 gallons!  At this rate I would > not have enough room for > any other filter material in the box. > > The filter in question is an Aqua Clear 50 (200).  The > replacement carbon > packet comes to 150 grams.  Does anyone know what this > would work out to by > tablespoon or cup size as I don't have a gram scale for > weight.  Again, by > following the box directions from AP, I would be adding 1 > 1/2 cups of carbon > to the power filter!  NOT! > > Bill > > > > > > ------------------------------------ > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when > replying, Thank You. > ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> > ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> > PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is > NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of > the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new > subject (was re: old subject)" <- > <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. > , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. > > If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of > unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by > clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the home page.  > > Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com > to receive the digest, which includes up to 25 posts at a > time in a single email > > Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com > for the No E-Mail option where you will still be able to > read messages on the group and post replies. > > Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com > to receive individual e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links > > >     mailto:AquaticLife-fullfeatured@yahoogroups.com > > > ------------------------------------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the home page. Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com to receive the digest, which includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com for the No E-Mail option where you will still be able to read messages on the group and post replies. Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com to receive individual e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 43303	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 9/11/2009
Subject: Re: Baby Hillstream Loaches! yay!

Congrats on the babies. I'm not sure what's up with your snails. I never saw this behavior with mine. You might want to modify your filter intake screens with one of rectangular shaped Marineland filter intake screens. I know you have the long slotted intake screens on your Rena Filstar intakes and they could be modified to these Marineland intake screens. Many people also change out the AquaClear intake screens to the Marineland intake screens. http://www.bigalsonline.com/BigAlsUS/ctl3684/cp18665/si1379768/cl0/marinelan declipseintakestrainer https://www.marineland.com/store/1-Strainer-P215C0.aspx http://thegab.org/Articles/FilterProfileAquaClear20.html (This article shows how they changed out the intake screen on their AC's to the Marineland intake screen) At least with these larger screens, when the snails get on them, there should still be plenty of openings where the snail is not at so that the snail won't get sucked into the slots. Also, the slots are much smaller and not pointy like the AC's or Rena Filstar intakes. I imagine the snails are drawn to the intake screens to eat any plant leaves that get sucked to the intake screen since they are known to like decaying plant matter. Hopefully, with the larger intake screens, they could happily munch away without there being too much suction to suck them into the slots. Your other option would be to put some kind of a larger screen over the intake screens... something that would allow detritus to get sucked into the filter without allowing the snails to get directly to the intake screen. I have some thoughts going through my head for this DIY project for you but I'll have to look around the net for suitable products. I know you could use (and probably do use) the round foam prefilters on the intakes, which would also keep fry from getting sucked into the filters but these seem to defeat the purpose of having larger filter systems since the prefilters catch everything instead of allowing it to go into the filter to be caught by the filter media. Here's an add-on foam pre-filter but this isn't what I'm talking about for my thoughts about a larger screen pre-filter. http://www.americanaquariumproducts.com/PreFilter.html My thoughts are for something to stop the snails from getting to the smaller slots of the normal intake screen but mine would not stop fry or other detritus from getting sucked in... just more of a safety screen for your snails. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Amber Berglund Sent: Thursday, September 10, 2009 10:44 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Baby Hillstream Loaches! yay! If anyone would like to see a picture of the baby loaches here is a link below: http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2551/3907954955_7221c6c104_o.jpg cute little guys, I've seen at least 2 out at a time, not sure how many I have in there, hard to tell with how over grown the plants have gotten lately ;) LOL. Amber Amber Berglund wrote: > Lol, so for once I actually have good news instead of bad news with my > fish ;) I actually managed to end up with some baby hillstream > loaches. I saw one swimming around on the bottom of the tank looking > for food, I thought it was a baby guppy until I looked closely. It's > only about a quarter of an inch long including it's tiny little fins > (they don't have very long tail fins though). I'm glad I ended up with > babies, i got discouraged a bit when I saw that one of them had died > last week (with my 2 ram's) after I unplugged the UV filter :( I still > have at least 4 adults from what I could see (one might be hiding), > there should be 5 of them left plus the babies now though. > Oh and my poor snail must've not pulled through, I'm not sure if > putting him in a bowl was a good thing or not, or perhaps it was just > too late (didn't get air fast enough after his lung filled with > water). I had to throw the poor guy away when I got home from work today. > And I also had another snail/filter intake incident, thought it had > small enough slots and apparently the snail stayed for a snack long > enough to get his/her face sucked into the filter *sigh* it's still > moving and I'm waiting for it to remove itself from the filter on it's > own, sometimes it takes a few hours since they swell up due to loss of > blood flow in their bodies. poor thing :( > > Amber

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 43304	From: bill 1433	Date: 9/11/2009
Subject: Re: Should all else fail...Was - How much carbon?-

Lisa, If the move is quick and you can save all old filter media and as much water as you can you should be alright. Bill --- On Thu, 9/10/09, Lisa Lawless <lisa_lawless2004@...> wrote: > From: Lisa Lawless <lisa_lawless2004@...> > Subject: [AquaticLife] Should all else fail...Was - How much carbon?- > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Date: Thursday, September 10, 2009, 11:46 PM > Hi...Apoligies bill, i had to cross > post, cause i can't access the groups main page from this > computer... >   > But my question is... > When i move into my new place. And the day comes to move my > tank. > If all precautions are taken, and correct methods are > used....but ends up causing me to loose all my fish... would > i have to fishless 're-cycle' my tank for 8 weeks again > before i add anything? >   > Or -having tried to save as much existing water as i can- > would i be able to start restocking again within days? >   > Thanks > Lisa > > >   > > >       > __________________________________________________________________________________ > Find local businesses and services in your area with > Yahoo!7 Local. > Get started: http://local.yahoo.com.au > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > ------------------------------------ > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when > replying, Thank You. > ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> > ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> > PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is > NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of > the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new > subject (was re: old subject)" <- > <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. > , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. > > If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of > unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by > clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the home page.  > > Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com > to receive the digest, which includes up to 25 posts at a > time in a single email > > Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com > for the No E-Mail option where you will still be able to > read messages on the group and post replies. > > Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com > to receive individual e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links > > >     mailto:AquaticLife-fullfeatured@yahoogroups.com > > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 43305	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 9/11/2009
Subject: Re: baton rouge

I'm in N'Awlins 'burbs so I'm not familiar with any B.R. breeders.. or any in N'Awlins for that matter... but if you check out SELAS (SouthEast Louisiana Aquarium Society) http://www.sela.us, in their forums, they should know who this breeder is. You can join the forums for free. They are a decent little society down here, started after Katrina, AFAIK, and they have monthly meetings and field trips so it's probably a good society to join as well... although I keep missing the meetings/field trips due to work or other scheduling conflicts. The founder of SELAS, Clay, lives in B.R. so hopefully he would have some info for you or maybe this breeder is already a member. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of courtland_jacob Sent: Thursday, September 10, 2009 11:33 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] baton rouge maybe i've already asked this, but I hear there is a cichlid breeder in baton rouge, i know the local store here gets his cichlids from them, is there anyone from louisiana or around baton rouge that knows of this breeder and how to contact them?

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 43306	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 9/11/2009
Subject: Re: Should all else fail...Was - How much carbon?-

I'm sure your move will go fine BUT... it's not the water that holds the good nitrifying bacteria, it's the filters and gravel. Just make sure you keep the filter media and gravel wet and slightly dirty with fish waste so it continues to cycle the ammonia from decaying detritus if you do have all your fish die. Further, if for some strange reason, all of your fish do die, you would not have to worry about keeping any of your old water for acclimation purposes since you could just acclimate newly purchased fish right into the new water. Have you ever tried to get water samples from your new home's well or public utility water lines to give it a 48 hour baseline test? Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Lisa Lawless Sent: Thursday, September 10, 2009 10:47 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Should all else fail...Was - How much carbon?- Hi...Apoligies bill, i had to cross post, cause i can't access the groups main page from this computer...   But my question is... When i move into my new place. And the day comes to move my tank. If all precautions are taken, and correct methods are used....but ends up causing me to loose all my fish... would i have to fishless 're-cycle' my tank for 8 weeks again before i add anything?   Or -having tried to save as much existing water as i can- would i be able to start restocking again within days?   Thanks Lisa

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 43307	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 9/11/2009
Subject: Re: Baby Hillstream Loaches! yay!

I use a mesh screen (that you normally use for windows I think but it's slightly larger than the window screen "squares" are). Obviously it's still small enough to catch almost anything that tries to go into the filter intakes though, so I have to clean them every few days, minimum. Too bad I can't use something that will keep out fry but won't hinder the filter in any way ;) LOL. I'm not sure if switching the intakes will help or not. They don't get stuck on my magnum 350 deluxe intake screen, nor do they get stuck to the powerhead for my fluidized bed filter. They only got stuck to the Eheim intake, the aquaclear intake, and the rena filstar intake. Apparently they're designed badly I would say ;) I didn't have the aquaclear covered as I didn't think it was a hazard, none of the snails had gone near it so far, but go figure, just when I think it's safe one decides to go eat lunch on it ;) I think the snail will be okay though, it was able to remove itself safely from the filter intake with no help from me after a couple of hours with the filter intake off of the filter, I moved it to the 55 gallon upstairs so it can heal in peace in case anything would have picked on it in the 125 gallon. Applesnail.net says that it's a very common behavior for snails to get sucked into filter intakes, perhaps you were just lucky with your filter intakes? Or maybe you fed the tank well enough so that it didn't go searching upwards for food ;) I also have a lot of MTS in the tank, perhaps I should start removing them on lettuce or something? They might be out competing the mystery snails for food. Amber Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > > > Congrats on the babies. > > I'm not sure what's up with your snails. I never saw this behavior with > mine. You might want to modify your filter intake screens with one of > rectangular shaped Marineland filter intake screens. I know you have the > long slotted intake screens on your Rena Filstar intakes and they could be > modified to these Marineland intake screens. Many people also change out > the AquaClear intake screens to the Marineland intake screens. > > http://www.bigalsonline.com/BigAlsUS/ctl3684/cp18665/si1379768/cl0/marinelan > <http://www.bigalsonline.com/BigAlsUS/ctl3684/cp18665/si1379768/cl0/marinelan> > declipseintakestrainer > > https://www.marineland.com/store/1-Strainer-P215C0.aspx > <https://www.marineland.com/store/1-Strainer-P215C0.aspx> > > http://thegab.org/Articles/FilterProfileAquaClear20.html > <http://thegab.org/Articles/FilterProfileAquaClear20.html> (This > article shows > how they changed out the intake screen on their AC's to the Marineland > intake screen) > > At least with these larger screens, when the snails get on them, there > should still be plenty of openings where the snail is not at so that the > snail won't get sucked into the slots. Also, the slots are much > smaller and > not pointy like the AC's or Rena Filstar intakes. > > I imagine the snails are drawn to the intake screens to eat any plant > leaves > that get sucked to the intake screen since they are known to like decaying > plant matter. > > Hopefully, with the larger intake screens, they could happily munch away > without there being too much suction to suck them into the slots. > > Your other option would be to put some kind of a larger screen over the > intake screens... something that would allow detritus to get sucked > into the > filter without allowing the snails to get directly to the intake screen. I > have some thoughts going through my head for this DIY project for you but > I'll have to look around the net for suitable products. > > I know you could use (and probably do use) the round foam prefilters > on the > intakes, which would also keep fry from getting sucked into the > filters but > these seem to defeat the purpose of having larger filter systems since the > prefilters catch everything instead of allowing it to go into the > filter to > be caught by the filter media. Here's an add-on foam pre-filter but this > isn't what I'm talking about for my thoughts about a larger screen > pre-filter. http://www.americanaquariumproducts.com/PreFilter.html > <http://www.americanaquariumproducts.com/PreFilter.html> > > My thoughts are for something to stop the snails from getting to the > smaller > slots of the normal intake screen but mine would not stop fry or other > detritus from getting sucked in... just more of a safety screen for your > snails. > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right > side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On > Behalf Of Amber Berglund > Sent: Thursday, September 10, 2009 10:44 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Baby Hillstream Loaches! yay! > > If anyone would like to see a picture of the baby loaches here is a link > below: > http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2551/3907954955_7221c6c104_o.jpg > <http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2551/3907954955_7221c6c104_o.jpg> > cute little guys, I've seen at least 2 out at a time, not sure how many I > have in there, hard to tell with how over grown the plants have gotten > lately ;) LOL. > > Amber > > Amber Berglund wrote: > > Lol, so for once I actually have good news instead of bad news with my > > fish ;) I actually managed to end up with some baby hillstream > > loaches. I saw one swimming around on the bottom of the tank looking > > for food, I thought it was a baby guppy until I looked closely. It's > > only about a quarter of an inch long including it's tiny little fins > > (they don't have very long tail fins though). I'm glad I ended up with > > babies, i got discouraged a bit when I saw that one of them had died > > last week (with my 2 ram's) after I unplugged the UV filter :( I still > > have at least 4 adults from what I could see (one might be hiding), > > there should be 5 of them left plus the babies now though. > > Oh and my poor snail must've not pulled through, I'm not sure if > > putting him in a bowl was a good thing or not, or perhaps it was just > > too late (didn't get air fast enough after his lung filled with > > water). I had to throw the poor guy away when I got home from work > today. > > And I also had another snail/filter intake incident, thought it had > > small enough slots and apparently the snail stayed for a snack long > > enough to get his/her face sucked into the filter *sigh* it's still > > moving and I'm waiting for it to remove itself from the filter on it's > > own, sometimes it takes a few hours since they swell up due to loss of > > blood flow in their bodies. poor thing :( > > > > Amber > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 43308	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 9/11/2009
Subject: Re: Baby Hillstream Loaches! yay!

I'm not familiar with the Eheim but I know the AC's and Rena's have the long slotted intakes. Check out those Marineland intakes I directed you to in my earlier reply. There are a LOT more slots on them and the slots are much smaller so hopefully they will deter your snails from shoving body parts inside the slots... of course that may not help with the fry but it would help a little since there is not as much water volume going through each slot since the intake area is spread out over more slots. It's still sucking in the same amount of water except each individual slot is taking in less volume so there's not as much suction on each individual slot. This should help your snails and fry from getting sucked in, although you might still need the foam sleeves/blocks over the intake to protect the fry. With the larger screen material you are using, do you have it right next to the filter intake or is it about 1/4" out from it? My thoughts were putting the 1/4" square type fiberglass screen material so that it formed a safety bubble around your intake to keep the snails away from the actual intake slots. Of course, this would provide NO protection for fry. The 1/4" squares would let more detritus get to the intake and eventually suck up into the filter but stop the snails from getting too close... much like a wire shield might be put over/around a commercial incandescent light bulb fixture to protect the fixture from breakage. Something like image L-30 (lower left corner image) on this page... http://www.complast.com/MESH/VEXAR.HTM You could cut it to make a square or round safety shield and using fishing line to "tie" the ends together to form the tube or box to fit over the intake. Then use a tie strip to hold it to the intake tube. -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Amber Berglund Sent: Friday, September 11, 2009 10:02 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: Baby Hillstream Loaches! yay! I use a mesh screen (that you normally use for windows I think but it's slightly larger than the window screen "squares" are). Obviously it's still small enough to catch almost anything that tries to go into the filter intakes though, so I have to clean them every few days, minimum. Too bad I can't use something that will keep out fry but won't hinder the filter in any way ;) LOL. I'm not sure if switching the intakes will help or not. They don't get stuck on my magnum 350 deluxe intake screen, nor do they get stuck to the powerhead for my fluidized bed filter. They only got stuck to the Eheim intake, the aquaclear intake, and the rena filstar intake. Apparently they're designed badly I would say ;) I didn't have the aquaclear covered as I didn't think it was a hazard, none of the snails had gone near it so far, but go figure, just when I think it's safe one decides to go eat lunch on it ;) I think the snail will be okay though, it was able to remove itself safely from the filter intake with no help from me after a couple of hours with the filter intake off of the filter, I moved it to the 55 gallon upstairs so it can heal in peace in case anything would have picked on it in the 125 gallon. Applesnail.net says that it's a very common behavior for snails to get sucked into filter intakes, perhaps you were just lucky with your filter intakes? Or maybe you fed the tank well enough so that it didn't go searching upwards for food ;) I also have a lot of MTS in the tank, perhaps I should start removing them on lettuce or something? They might be out competing the mystery snails for food. Amber Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > > > Congrats on the babies. > > I'm not sure what's up with your snails. I never saw this behavior > with mine. You might want to modify your filter intake screens with > one of rectangular shaped Marineland filter intake screens. I know you > have the long slotted intake screens on your Rena Filstar intakes and > they could be modified to these Marineland intake screens. Many people > also change out the AquaClear intake screens to the Marineland intake screens. > > http://www.bigalsonline.com/BigAlsUS/ctl3684/cp18665/si1379768/cl0/mar > inelan > <http://www.bigalsonline.com/BigAlsUS/ctl3684/cp18665/si1379768/cl0/ma > rinelan> > declipseintakestrainer > > https://www.marineland.com/store/1-Strainer-P215C0.aspx > <https://www.marineland.com/store/1-Strainer-P215C0.aspx> > > http://thegab.org/Articles/FilterProfileAquaClear20.html > <http://thegab.org/Articles/FilterProfileAquaClear20.html> (This > article shows how they changed out the intake screen on their AC's to > the Marineland intake screen) > > At least with these larger screens, when the snails get on them, there > should still be plenty of openings where the snail is not at so that > the snail won't get sucked into the slots. Also, the slots are much > smaller and not pointy like the AC's or Rena Filstar intakes. > > I imagine the snails are drawn to the intake screens to eat any plant > leaves that get sucked to the intake screen since they are known to > like decaying plant matter. > > Hopefully, with the larger intake screens, they could happily munch > away without there being too much suction to suck them into the slots. > > Your other option would be to put some kind of a larger screen over > the intake screens... something that would allow detritus to get > sucked into the filter without allowing the snails to get directly to > the intake screen. I have some thoughts going through my head for this > DIY project for you but I'll have to look around the net for suitable > products. > > I know you could use (and probably do use) the round foam prefilters > on the intakes, which would also keep fry from getting sucked into the > filters but these seem to defeat the purpose of having larger filter > systems since the prefilters catch everything instead of allowing it > to go into the filter to be caught by the filter media. Here's an > add-on foam pre-filter but this isn't what I'm talking about for my > thoughts about a larger screen pre-filter. > http://www.americanaquariumproducts.com/PreFilter.html > <http://www.americanaquariumproducts.com/PreFilter.html> > > My thoughts are for something to stop the snails from getting to the > smaller slots of the normal intake screen but mine would not stop fry > or other detritus from getting sucked in... just more of a safety > screen for your snails. > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> (Links to any articles referenced in > above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels > and also under Archives by Year, Month) > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On Behalf Of Amber Berglund > Sent: Thursday, September 10, 2009 10:44 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Baby Hillstream Loaches! yay! > > If anyone would like to see a picture of the baby loaches here is a > link > below: > http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2551/3907954955_7221c6c104_o.jpg > <http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2551/3907954955_7221c6c104_o.jpg> > cute little guys, I've seen at least 2 out at a time, not sure how > many I have in there, hard to tell with how over grown the plants have > gotten lately ;) LOL. > > Amber > > Amber Berglund wrote: > > Lol, so for once I actually have good news instead of bad news with > > my fish ;) I actually managed to end up with some baby hillstream > > loaches. I saw one swimming around on the bottom of the tank looking > > for food, I thought it was a baby guppy until I looked closely. It's > > only about a quarter of an inch long including it's tiny little fins > > (they don't have very long tail fins though). I'm glad I ended up > > with babies, i got discouraged a bit when I saw that one of them had > > died last week (with my 2 ram's) after I unplugged the UV filter :( > > I still have at least 4 adults from what I could see (one might be > > hiding), there should be 5 of them left plus the babies now though. > > Oh and my poor snail must've not pulled through, I'm not sure if > > putting him in a bowl was a good thing or not, or perhaps it was > > just too late (didn't get air fast enough after his lung filled with > > water). I had to throw the poor guy away when I got home from work > today. > > And I also had another snail/filter intake incident, thought it had > > small enough slots and apparently the snail stayed for a snack long > > enough to get his/her face sucked into the filter *sigh* it's still > > moving and I'm waiting for it to remove itself from the filter on > > it's own, sometimes it takes a few hours since they swell up due to > > loss of blood flow in their bodies. poor thing :( > > > > Amber > > ------------------------------------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the home page. Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com to receive the digest, which includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com for the No E-Mail option where you will still be able to read messages on the group and post replies. Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com to receive individual e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 43309	From: bill 1433	Date: 9/11/2009
Subject: Water Base Lines ----A Warning!

When I first came on this list I was encouraged by Lenny and others to do a Water Base Line in order to establish water parameters and record such, which I did. Lately, I just found a .3 nitrate level in what I thought was my aquarium. I came to find out that it was not. I was putting this in my tank by supply from my well water. Now I'm not sure what the real rules are for checking base lines but I strongly advise all to do one more frequently than once a year! You may be surprised at what you find, I know I was! For you folks that are on city or municipal water, I would check at least every other month. With the economy as it is today, the government agency's are constantly looking at ways of doing things more cheaply. Things they are using or putting in your water supply today, maY not have been there a month or so ago. Check your water! Bill

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 43310	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 9/11/2009
Subject: Re: Baby Hillstream Loaches! yay!

I have it wrapped around the end of the intake filter so it stops fry from getting sucked in (was tired of all the guppies and platies in the filter when I clean it ;) So it's there to stop both the snails and the fry from getting sucked in. Your idea would work for snails I think, but I'd still have to worry about fry, and since I finally have my loaches breeding I'd like to not have them all sucked into the filters ;) LOL. I saw the LFS do something like you're suggesting for their planted tank, but it was to keep it from sucking up all the duckweed, LOL. Amber Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > > > I'm not familiar with the Eheim but I know the AC's and Rena's have > the long > slotted intakes. Check out those Marineland intakes I directed you to > in my > earlier reply. There are a LOT more slots on them and the slots are much > smaller so hopefully they will deter your snails from shoving body parts > inside the slots... of course that may not help with the fry but it would > help a little since there is not as much water volume going through each > slot since the intake area is spread out over more slots. It's still > sucking in the same amount of water except each individual slot is > taking in > less volume so there's not as much suction on each individual slot. This > should help your snails and fry from getting sucked in, although you might > still need the foam sleeves/blocks over the intake to protect the fry. > > With the larger screen material you are using, do you have it right > next to > the filter intake or is it about 1/4" out from it? My thoughts were > putting > the 1/4" square type fiberglass screen material so that it formed a safety > bubble around your intake to keep the snails away from the actual intake > slots. Of course, this would provide NO protection for fry. The 1/4" > squares would let more detritus get to the intake and eventually suck up > into the filter but stop the snails from getting too close... much like a > wire shield might be put over/around a commercial incandescent light bulb > fixture to protect the fixture from breakage. Something like image L-30 > (lower left corner image) on this page... > > http://www.complast.com/MESH/VEXAR.HTM > <http://www.complast.com/MESH/VEXAR.HTM> > > You could cut it to make a square or round safety shield and using fishing > line to "tie" the ends together to form the tube or box to fit over the > intake. Then use a tie strip to hold it to the intake tube. > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On > Behalf Of Amber Berglund > Sent: Friday, September 11, 2009 10:02 AM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: Baby Hillstream Loaches! yay! > > I use a mesh screen (that you normally use for windows I think but it's > slightly larger than the window screen "squares" are). > Obviously it's still small enough to catch almost anything that tries > to go > into the filter intakes though, so I have to clean them every few days, > minimum. > Too bad I can't use something that will keep out fry but won't hinder the > filter in any way ;) LOL. > I'm not sure if switching the intakes will help or not. They don't get > stuck > on my magnum 350 deluxe intake screen, nor do they get stuck to the > powerhead for my fluidized bed filter. They only got stuck to the Eheim > intake, the aquaclear intake, and the rena filstar intake. > Apparently they're designed badly I would say ;) I didn't have the > aquaclear > covered as I didn't think it was a hazard, none of the snails had gone > near > it so far, but go figure, just when I think it's safe one decides to > go eat > lunch on it ;) I think the snail will be okay though, it was able to > remove > itself safely from the filter intake with no help from me after a > couple of > hours with the filter intake off of the filter, I moved it to the 55 > gallon > upstairs so it can heal in peace in case anything would have picked on > it in > the 125 gallon. > Applesnail.net says that it's a very common behavior for snails to get > sucked into filter intakes, perhaps you were just lucky with your filter > intakes? Or maybe you fed the tank well enough so that it didn't go > searching upwards for food ;) I also have a lot of MTS in the tank, > perhaps > I should start removing them on lettuce or something? They might be out > competing the mystery snails for food. > > Amber > > Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > > > > > > Congrats on the babies. > > > > I'm not sure what's up with your snails. I never saw this behavior > > with mine. You might want to modify your filter intake screens with > > one of rectangular shaped Marineland filter intake screens. I know you > > have the long slotted intake screens on your Rena Filstar intakes and > > they could be modified to these Marineland intake screens. Many people > > also change out the AquaClear intake screens to the Marineland intake > screens. > > > > > http://www.bigalsonline.com/BigAlsUS/ctl3684/cp18665/si1379768/cl0/mar > <http://www.bigalsonline.com/BigAlsUS/ctl3684/cp18665/si1379768/cl0/mar> > > inelan > > > <http://www.bigalsonline.com/BigAlsUS/ctl3684/cp18665/si1379768/cl0/ma > <http://www.bigalsonline.com/BigAlsUS/ctl3684/cp18665/si1379768/cl0/ma> > > rinelan> > > declipseintakestrainer > > > > https://www.marineland.com/store/1-Strainer-P215C0.aspx > <https://www.marineland.com/store/1-Strainer-P215C0.aspx> > > <https://www.marineland.com/store/1-Strainer-P215C0.aspx > <https://www.marineland.com/store/1-Strainer-P215C0.aspx>> > > > > http://thegab.org/Articles/FilterProfileAquaClear20.html > <http://thegab.org/Articles/FilterProfileAquaClear20.html> > > <http://thegab.org/Articles/FilterProfileAquaClear20.html > <http://thegab.org/Articles/FilterProfileAquaClear20.html>> (This > > article shows how they changed out the intake screen on their AC's to > > the Marineland intake screen) > > > > At least with these larger screens, when the snails get on them, there > > should still be plenty of openings where the snail is not at so that > > the snail won't get sucked into the slots. Also, the slots are much > > smaller and not pointy like the AC's or Rena Filstar intakes. > > > > I imagine the snails are drawn to the intake screens to eat any plant > > leaves that get sucked to the intake screen since they are known to > > like decaying plant matter. > > > > Hopefully, with the larger intake screens, they could happily munch > > away without there being too much suction to suck them into the slots. > > > > Your other option would be to put some kind of a larger screen over > > the intake screens... something that would allow detritus to get > > sucked into the filter without allowing the snails to get directly to > > the intake screen. I have some thoughts going through my head for this > > DIY project for you but I'll have to look around the net for suitable > > products. > > > > I know you could use (and probably do use) the round foam prefilters > > on the intakes, which would also keep fry from getting sucked into the > > filters but these seem to defeat the purpose of having larger filter > > systems since the prefilters catch everything instead of allowing it > > to go into the filter to be caught by the filter media. Here's an > > add-on foam pre-filter but this isn't what I'm talking about for my > > thoughts about a larger screen pre-filter. > > http://www.americanaquariumproducts.com/PreFilter.html > <http://www.americanaquariumproducts.com/PreFilter.html> > > <http://www.americanaquariumproducts.com/PreFilter.html > <http://www.americanaquariumproducts.com/PreFilter.html>> > > > > My thoughts are for something to stop the snails from getting to the > > smaller slots of the normal intake screen but mine would not stop fry > > or other detritus from getting sucked in... just more of a safety > > screen for your snails. > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>> > (Links to any articles referenced in > > above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels > > and also under Archives by Year, Month) > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On Behalf Of Amber Berglund > > Sent: Thursday, September 10, 2009 10:44 PM > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Baby Hillstream Loaches! yay! > > > > If anyone would like to see a picture of the baby loaches here is a > > link > > below: > > http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2551/3907954955_7221c6c104_o.jpg > <http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2551/3907954955_7221c6c104_o.jpg> > > <http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2551/3907954955_7221c6c104_o.jpg > <http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2551/3907954955_7221c6c104_o.jpg>> > > cute little guys, I've seen at least 2 out at a time, not sure how > > many I have in there, hard to tell with how over grown the plants have > > gotten lately ;) LOL. > > > > Amber > > > > Amber Berglund wrote: > > > Lol, so for once I actually have good news instead of bad news with > > > my fish ;) I actually managed to end up with some baby hillstream > > > loaches. I saw one swimming around on the bottom of the tank looking > > > for food, I thought it was a baby guppy until I looked closely. It's > > > only about a quarter of an inch long including it's tiny little fins > > > (they don't have very long tail fins though). I'm glad I ended up > > > with babies, i got discouraged a bit when I saw that one of them had > > > died last week (with my 2 ram's) after I unplugged the UV filter :( > > > I still have at least 4 adults from what I could see (one might be > > > hiding), there should be 5 of them left plus the babies now though. > > > Oh and my poor snail must've not pulled through, I'm not sure if > > > putting him in a bowl was a good thing or not, or perhaps it was > > > just too late (didn't get air fast enough after his lung filled with > > > water). I had to throw the poor guy away when I got home from work > > today. > > > And I also had another snail/filter intake incident, thought it had > > > small enough slots and apparently the snail stayed for a snack long > > > enough to get his/her face sucked into the filter *sigh* it's still > > > moving and I'm waiting for it to remove itself from the filter on > > > it's own, sometimes it takes a few hours since they swell up due to > > > loss of blood flow in their bodies. poor thing :( > > > > > > Amber > > > > > > ------------------------------------ > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. > ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> > PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to > the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the > SUBJECT > LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- > <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. > > If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of unsubscribing, you > can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the > home page. > > Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:aquaticlife-digest%40yahoogroups.com> to receive the digest, which > includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email > > Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:aquaticlife-nomail%40yahoogroups.com> for the No E-Mail option > where > you will still be able to read messages on the group and post replies. > > Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:aquaticlife-normal%40yahoogroups.com> to receive individual > e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 43311	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 9/11/2009
Subject: Re: Baby Hillstream Loaches! yay!

Follow-up... AHHHH... I knew if I looked around enough, I'd find someone who already came up with an idea similar to what I was thinking about and this one is even simpler than what I was thinking about. I just needed the right key words when searching Google Images. They're doing this for a powerhead but it would also work perfectly in your case and you probably have one of these plastic left-over food storage containers in your cupboard just waiting to be used on your fish tanks. ;-) http://www.cichlid-forum.com/articles/diy_powerhead_filter.php In your case, just drill the 3/16" holes in the plastic housing and put this plastic shield over a Marineland type intake screen but DO NOT cover it with poly pad media... or you could put some filter floss or sponge inside the plastic housing when you have fry in the tank IF you see them getting stuck to the Marineland intake screen. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Amber Berglund Sent: Friday, September 11, 2009 10:02 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: Baby Hillstream Loaches! yay! I use a mesh screen (that you normally use for windows I think but it's slightly larger than the window screen "squares" are). Obviously it's still small enough to catch almost anything that tries to go into the filter intakes though, so I have to clean them every few days, minimum. Too bad I can't use something that will keep out fry but won't hinder the filter in any way ;) LOL. I'm not sure if switching the intakes will help or not. They don't get stuck on my magnum 350 deluxe intake screen, nor do they get stuck to the powerhead for my fluidized bed filter. They only got stuck to the Eheim intake, the aquaclear intake, and the rena filstar intake. Apparently they're designed badly I would say ;) I didn't have the aquaclear covered as I didn't think it was a hazard, none of the snails had gone near it so far, but go figure, just when I think it's safe one decides to go eat lunch on it ;) I think the snail will be okay though, it was able to remove itself safely from the filter intake with no help from me after a couple of hours with the filter intake off of the filter, I moved it to the 55 gallon upstairs so it can heal in peace in case anything would have picked on it in the 125 gallon. Applesnail.net says that it's a very common behavior for snails to get sucked into filter intakes, perhaps you were just lucky with your filter intakes? Or maybe you fed the tank well enough so that it didn't go searching upwards for food ;) I also have a lot of MTS in the tank, perhaps I should start removing them on lettuce or something? They might be out competing the mystery snails for food. Amber Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > > > Congrats on the babies. > > I'm not sure what's up with your snails. I never saw this behavior > with mine. You might want to modify your filter intake screens with > one of rectangular shaped Marineland filter intake screens. I know you > have the long slotted intake screens on your Rena Filstar intakes and > they could be modified to these Marineland intake screens. Many people > also change out the AquaClear intake screens to the Marineland intake screens. > > http://www.bigalsonline.com/BigAlsUS/ctl3684/cp18665/si1379768/cl0/mar > inelan > <http://www.bigalsonline.com/BigAlsUS/ctl3684/cp18665/si1379768/cl0/ma > rinelan> > declipseintakestrainer > > https://www.marineland.com/store/1-Strainer-P215C0.aspx > <https://www.marineland.com/store/1-Strainer-P215C0.aspx> > > http://thegab.org/Articles/FilterProfileAquaClear20.html > <http://thegab.org/Articles/FilterProfileAquaClear20.html> (This > article shows how they changed out the intake screen on their AC's to > the Marineland intake screen) > > At least with these larger screens, when the snails get on them, there > should still be plenty of openings where the snail is not at so that > the snail won't get sucked into the slots. Also, the slots are much > smaller and not pointy like the AC's or Rena Filstar intakes. > > I imagine the snails are drawn to the intake screens to eat any plant > leaves that get sucked to the intake screen since they are known to > like decaying plant matter. > > Hopefully, with the larger intake screens, they could happily munch > away without there being too much suction to suck them into the slots. > > Your other option would be to put some kind of a larger screen over > the intake screens... something that would allow detritus to get > sucked into the filter without allowing the snails to get directly to > the intake screen. I have some thoughts going through my head for this > DIY project for you but I'll have to look around the net for suitable > products. > > I know you could use (and probably do use) the round foam prefilters > on the intakes, which would also keep fry from getting sucked into the > filters but these seem to defeat the purpose of having larger filter > systems since the prefilters catch everything instead of allowing it > to go into the filter to be caught by the filter media. Here's an > add-on foam pre-filter but this isn't what I'm talking about for my > thoughts about a larger screen pre-filter. > http://www.americanaquariumproducts.com/PreFilter.html > <http://www.americanaquariumproducts.com/PreFilter.html> > > My thoughts are for something to stop the snails from getting to the > smaller slots of the normal intake screen but mine would not stop fry > or other detritus from getting sucked in... just more of a safety > screen for your snails. > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> (Links to any articles referenced in > above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels > and also under Archives by Year, Month) > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On Behalf Of Amber Berglund > Sent: Thursday, September 10, 2009 10:44 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Baby Hillstream Loaches! yay! > > If anyone would like to see a picture of the baby loaches here is a > link > below: > http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2551/3907954955_7221c6c104_o.jpg > <http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2551/3907954955_7221c6c104_o.jpg> > cute little guys, I've seen at least 2 out at a time, not sure how > many I have in there, hard to tell with how over grown the plants have > gotten lately ;) LOL. > > Amber > > Amber Berglund wrote: > > Lol, so for once I actually have good news instead of bad news with > > my fish ;) I actually managed to end up with some baby hillstream > > loaches. I saw one swimming around on the bottom of the tank looking > > for food, I thought it was a baby guppy until I looked closely. It's > > only about a quarter of an inch long including it's tiny little fins > > (they don't have very long tail fins though). I'm glad I ended up > > with babies, i got discouraged a bit when I saw that one of them had > > died last week (with my 2 ram's) after I unplugged the UV filter :( > > I still have at least 4 adults from what I could see (one might be > > hiding), there should be 5 of them left plus the babies now though. > > Oh and my poor snail must've not pulled through, I'm not sure if > > putting him in a bowl was a good thing or not, or perhaps it was > > just too late (didn't get air fast enough after his lung filled with > > water). I had to throw the poor guy away when I got home from work > today. > > And I also had another snail/filter intake incident, thought it had > > small enough slots and apparently the snail stayed for a snack long > > enough to get his/her face sucked into the filter *sigh* it's still > > moving and I'm waiting for it to remove itself from the filter on > > it's own, sometimes it takes a few hours since they swell up due to > > loss of blood flow in their bodies. poor thing :( > > > > Amber

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 43312	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 9/11/2009
Subject: Re: Baby Hillstream Loaches! yay!

Hey the hubby shouldn't mind if I use his little plastic containers, right? ;) LOL That's a good idea though, wonder how well it works. amber Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > > > Follow-up... > > AHHHH... I knew if I looked around enough, I'd find someone who > already came > up with an idea similar to what I was thinking about and this one is even > simpler than what I was thinking about. I just needed the right key words > when searching Google Images. They're doing this for a powerhead but it > would also work perfectly in your case and you probably have one of these > plastic left-over food storage containers in your cupboard just waiting to > be used on your fish tanks. ;-) > > http://www.cichlid-forum.com/articles/diy_powerhead_filter.php > <http://www.cichlid-forum.com/articles/diy_powerhead_filter.php> > > In your case, just drill the 3/16" holes in the plastic housing and > put this > plastic shield over a Marineland type intake screen but DO NOT cover > it with > poly pad media... or you could put some filter floss or sponge inside the > plastic housing when you have fry in the tank IF you see them getting > stuck > to the Marineland intake screen. > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right > side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On > Behalf Of Amber Berglund > Sent: Friday, September 11, 2009 10:02 AM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: Baby Hillstream Loaches! yay! > > I use a mesh screen (that you normally use for windows I think but it's > slightly larger than the window screen "squares" are). > Obviously it's still small enough to catch almost anything that tries > to go > into the filter intakes though, so I have to clean them every few days, > minimum. > Too bad I can't use something that will keep out fry but won't hinder the > filter in any way ;) LOL. > I'm not sure if switching the intakes will help or not. They don't get > stuck > on my magnum 350 deluxe intake screen, nor do they get stuck to the > powerhead for my fluidized bed filter. They only got stuck to the Eheim > intake, the aquaclear intake, and the rena filstar intake. > Apparently they're designed badly I would say ;) I didn't have the > aquaclear > covered as I didn't think it was a hazard, none of the snails had gone > near > it so far, but go figure, just when I think it's safe one decides to > go eat > lunch on it ;) I think the snail will be okay though, it was able to > remove > itself safely from the filter intake with no help from me after a > couple of > hours with the filter intake off of the filter, I moved it to the 55 > gallon > upstairs so it can heal in peace in case anything would have picked on > it in > the 125 gallon. > Applesnail.net says that it's a very common behavior for snails to get > sucked into filter intakes, perhaps you were just lucky with your filter > intakes? Or maybe you fed the tank well enough so that it didn't go > searching upwards for food ;) I also have a lot of MTS in the tank, > perhaps > I should start removing them on lettuce or something? They might be out > competing the mystery snails for food. > > Amber > > Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > > > > > > Congrats on the babies. > > > > I'm not sure what's up with your snails. I never saw this behavior > > with mine. You might want to modify your filter intake screens with > > one of rectangular shaped Marineland filter intake screens. I know you > > have the long slotted intake screens on your Rena Filstar intakes and > > they could be modified to these Marineland intake screens. Many people > > also change out the AquaClear intake screens to the Marineland intake > screens. > > > > > http://www.bigalsonline.com/BigAlsUS/ctl3684/cp18665/si1379768/cl0/mar > <http://www.bigalsonline.com/BigAlsUS/ctl3684/cp18665/si1379768/cl0/mar> > > inelan > > > <http://www.bigalsonline.com/BigAlsUS/ctl3684/cp18665/si1379768/cl0/ma > <http://www.bigalsonline.com/BigAlsUS/ctl3684/cp18665/si1379768/cl0/ma> > > rinelan> > > declipseintakestrainer > > > > https://www.marineland.com/store/1-Strainer-P215C0.aspx > <https://www.marineland.com/store/1-Strainer-P215C0.aspx> > > <https://www.marineland.com/store/1-Strainer-P215C0.aspx > <https://www.marineland.com/store/1-Strainer-P215C0.aspx>> > > > > http://thegab.org/Articles/FilterProfileAquaClear20.html > <http://thegab.org/Articles/FilterProfileAquaClear20.html> > > <http://thegab.org/Articles/FilterProfileAquaClear20.html > <http://thegab.org/Articles/FilterProfileAquaClear20.html>> (This > > article shows how they changed out the intake screen on their AC's to > > the Marineland intake screen) > > > > At least with these larger screens, when the snails get on them, there > > should still be plenty of openings where the snail is not at so that > > the snail won't get sucked into the slots. Also, the slots are much > > smaller and not pointy like the AC's or Rena Filstar intakes. > > > > I imagine the snails are drawn to the intake screens to eat any plant > > leaves that get sucked to the intake screen since they are known to > > like decaying plant matter. > > > > Hopefully, with the larger intake screens, they could happily munch > > away without there being too much suction to suck them into the slots. > > > > Your other option would be to put some kind of a larger screen over > > the intake screens... something that would allow detritus to get > > sucked into the filter without allowing the snails to get directly to > > the intake screen. I have some thoughts going through my head for this > > DIY project for you but I'll have to look around the net for suitable > > products. > > > > I know you could use (and probably do use) the round foam prefilters > > on the intakes, which would also keep fry from getting sucked into the > > filters but these seem to defeat the purpose of having larger filter > > systems since the prefilters catch everything instead of allowing it > > to go into the filter to be caught by the filter media. Here's an > > add-on foam pre-filter but this isn't what I'm talking about for my > > thoughts about a larger screen pre-filter. > > http://www.americanaquariumproducts.com/PreFilter.html > <http://www.americanaquariumproducts.com/PreFilter.html> > > <http://www.americanaquariumproducts.com/PreFilter.html > <http://www.americanaquariumproducts.com/PreFilter.html>> > > > > My thoughts are for something to stop the snails from getting to the > > smaller slots of the normal intake screen but mine would not stop fry > > or other detritus from getting sucked in... just more of a safety > > screen for your snails. > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>> > (Links to any articles referenced in > > above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels > > and also under Archives by Year, Month) > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On Behalf Of Amber Berglund > > Sent: Thursday, September 10, 2009 10:44 PM > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Baby Hillstream Loaches! yay! > > > > If anyone would like to see a picture of the baby loaches here is a > > link > > below: > > http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2551/3907954955_7221c6c104_o.jpg > <http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2551/3907954955_7221c6c104_o.jpg> > > <http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2551/3907954955_7221c6c104_o.jpg > <http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2551/3907954955_7221c6c104_o.jpg>> > > cute little guys, I've seen at least 2 out at a time, not sure how > > many I have in there, hard to tell with how over grown the plants have > > gotten lately ;) LOL. > > > > Amber > > > > Amber Berglund wrote: > > > Lol, so for once I actually have good news instead of bad news with > > > my fish ;) I actually managed to end up with some baby hillstream > > > loaches. I saw one swimming around on the bottom of the tank looking > > > for food, I thought it was a baby guppy until I looked closely. It's > > > only about a quarter of an inch long including it's tiny little fins > > > (they don't have very long tail fins though). I'm glad I ended up > > > with babies, i got discouraged a bit when I saw that one of them had > > > died last week (with my 2 ram's) after I unplugged the UV filter :( > > > I still have at least 4 adults from what I could see (one might be > > > hiding), there should be 5 of them left plus the babies now though. > > > Oh and my poor snail must've not pulled through, I'm not sure if > > > putting him in a bowl was a good thing or not, or perhaps it was > > > just too late (didn't get air fast enough after his lung filled with > > > water). I had to throw the poor guy away when I got home from work > > today. > > > And I also had another snail/filter intake incident, thought it had > > > small enough slots and apparently the snail stayed for a snack long > > > enough to get his/her face sucked into the filter *sigh* it's still > > > moving and I'm waiting for it to remove itself from the filter on > > > it's own, sometimes it takes a few hours since they swell up due to > > > loss of blood flow in their bodies. poor thing :( > > > > > > Amber > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 43313	From: bill 1433	Date: 9/11/2009
Subject: Re: Baby Hillstream Loaches! yay!

OR..............simply wrap the entire intake in foam to protect them. Use some rubber bands to hold the thing in place. Bill --- On Fri, 9/11/09, Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@...> wrote: > From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@...> > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: Baby Hillstream Loaches! yay! > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Date: Friday, September 11, 2009, 11:31 AM > Follow-up... > > AHHHH... I knew if I looked around enough, I'd find someone > who already came > up with an idea similar to what I was thinking about and > this one is even > simpler than what I was thinking about.  I just needed > the right key words > when searching Google Images.  They're doing this for > a powerhead but it > would also work perfectly in your case and you probably > have one of these > plastic left-over food storage containers in your cupboard > just waiting to > be used on your fish tanks. ;-) > > http://www.cichlid-forum.com/articles/diy_powerhead_filter.php > > In your case, just drill the 3/16" holes in the plastic > housing and put this > plastic shield over a Marineland type intake screen but DO > NOT cover it with > poly pad media... or you could put some filter floss or > sponge inside the > plastic housing when you have fry in the tank IF you see > them getting stuck > to the Marineland intake screen. > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed > on the right > side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives > by Year, Month) > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] > On > Behalf Of Amber Berglund > Sent: Friday, September 11, 2009 10:02 AM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: Baby Hillstream Loaches! > yay! > > I use a mesh screen (that you normally use for windows I > think but it's > slightly larger than the window screen "squares" are). > Obviously it's still small enough to catch almost anything > that tries to go > into the filter intakes though, so I have to clean them > every few days, > minimum. > Too bad I can't use something that will keep out fry but > won't hinder the > filter in any way ;) LOL. > I'm not sure if switching the intakes will help or not. > They don't get stuck > on my magnum 350 deluxe intake screen, nor do they get > stuck to the > powerhead for my fluidized bed filter. They only got stuck > to the Eheim > intake, the aquaclear intake, and the rena filstar intake. > > Apparently they're designed badly I would say ;) I didn't > have the aquaclear > covered as I didn't think it was a hazard, none of the > snails had gone near > it so far, but go figure, just when I think it's safe one > decides to go eat > lunch on it ;) I think the snail will be okay though, it > was able to remove > itself safely from the filter intake with no help from me > after a couple of > hours with the filter intake off of the filter, I moved it > to the 55 gallon > upstairs so it can heal in peace in case anything would > have picked on it in > the 125 gallon. > Applesnail.net says that it's a very common behavior for > snails to get > sucked into filter intakes, perhaps you were just lucky > with your filter > intakes? Or maybe you fed the tank well enough so that it > didn't go > searching upwards for food ;) I also have a lot of MTS in > the tank, perhaps > I should start removing them on lettuce or something? They > might be out > competing the mystery snails for food. > > Amber > > Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > >  > > > > Congrats on the babies. > > > > I'm not sure what's up with your snails. I never saw > this behavior > > with mine. You might want to modify your filter intake > screens with > > one of rectangular shaped Marineland filter intake > screens. I know you > > have the long slotted intake screens on your Rena > Filstar intakes and > > they could be modified to these Marineland intake > screens. Many people > > also change out the AquaClear intake screens to the > Marineland intake > screens. > > > > http://www.bigalsonline.com/BigAlsUS/ctl3684/cp18665/si1379768/cl0/mar > > inelan > > <http://www.bigalsonline.com/BigAlsUS/ctl3684/cp18665/si1379768/cl0/ma > > rinelan> > > declipseintakestrainer > > > > https://www.marineland.com/store/1-Strainer-P215C0.aspx > > <https://www.marineland.com/store/1-Strainer-P215C0.aspx> > > > > http://thegab.org/Articles/FilterProfileAquaClear20.html > > <http://thegab.org/Articles/FilterProfileAquaClear20.html> > (This > > article shows how they changed out the intake screen > on their AC's to > > the Marineland intake screen) > > > > At least with these larger screens, when the snails > get on them, there > > should still be plenty of openings where the snail is > not at so that > > the snail won't get sucked into the slots. Also, the > slots are much > > smaller and not pointy like the AC's or Rena Filstar > intakes. > > > > I imagine the snails are drawn to the intake screens > to eat any plant > > leaves that get sucked to the intake screen since they > are known to > > like decaying plant matter. > > > > Hopefully, with the larger intake screens, they could > happily munch > > away without there being too much suction to suck them > into the slots. > > > > Your other option would be to put some kind of a > larger screen over > > the intake screens... something that would allow > detritus to get > > sucked into the filter without allowing the snails to > get directly to > > the intake screen. I have some thoughts going through > my head for this > > DIY project for you but I'll have to look around the > net for suitable > > products. > > > > I know you could use (and probably do use) the round > foam prefilters > > on the intakes, which would also keep fry from getting > sucked into the > > filters but these seem to defeat the purpose of having > larger filter > > systems since the prefilters catch everything instead > of allowing it > > to go into the filter to be caught by the filter > media. Here's an > > add-on foam pre-filter but this isn't what I'm talking > about for my > > thoughts about a larger screen pre-filter. > > http://www.americanaquariumproducts.com/PreFilter.html > > <http://www.americanaquariumproducts.com/PreFilter.html> > > > > My thoughts are for something to stop the snails from > getting to the > > smaller slots of the normal intake screen but mine > would not stop fry > > or other detritus from getting sucked in... just more > of a safety > > screen for your snails. > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> (Links > to any articles referenced in > > above reply are listed on the right side, > alphabetically under Labels > > and also under Archives by Year, Month) > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On > Behalf Of Amber Berglund > > Sent: Thursday, September 10, 2009 10:44 PM > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Baby Hillstream Loaches! > yay! > > > > If anyone would like to see a picture of the baby > loaches here is a > > link > > below: > > http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2551/3907954955_7221c6c104_o.jpg > > <http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2551/3907954955_7221c6c104_o.jpg> > > cute little guys, I've seen at least 2 out at a time, > not sure how > > many I have in there, hard to tell with how over grown > the plants have > > gotten lately ;) LOL. > > > > Amber > > > > Amber Berglund wrote: > > > Lol, so for once I actually have good news > instead of bad news with > > > my fish ;) I actually managed to end up with some > baby hillstream > > > loaches. I saw one swimming around on the bottom > of the tank looking > > > for food, I thought it was a baby guppy until I > looked closely. It's > > > only about a quarter of an inch long including > it's tiny little fins > > > (they don't have very long tail fins though). I'm > glad I ended up > > > with babies, i got discouraged a bit when I saw > that one of them had > > > died last week (with my 2 ram's) after I > unplugged the UV filter :( > > > I still have at least 4 adults from what I could > see (one might be > > > hiding), there should be 5 of them left plus the > babies now though. > > > Oh and my poor snail must've not pulled through, > I'm not sure if > > > putting him in a bowl was a good thing or not, or > perhaps it was > > > just too late (didn't get air fast enough after > his lung filled with > > > water). I had to throw the poor guy away when I > got home from work > > today. > > > And I also had another snail/filter intake > incident, thought it had > > > small enough slots and apparently the snail > stayed for a snack long > > > enough to get his/her face sucked into the filter > *sigh* it's still > > > moving and I'm waiting for it to remove itself > from the filter on > > > it's own, sometimes it takes a few hours since > they swell up due to > > > loss of blood flow in their bodies. poor thing > :( > > > > > > Amber > > > > ------------------------------------ > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when > replying, Thank You. > ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> > ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> > PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is > NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of > the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new > subject (was re: old subject)" <- > <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. > , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. > > If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of > unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by > clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the home page.  > > Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com > to receive the digest, which includes up to 25 posts at a > time in a single email > > Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com > for the No E-Mail option where you will still be able to > read messages on the group and post replies. > > Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com > to receive individual e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links > > >     mailto:AquaticLife-fullfeatured@yahoogroups.com > > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 43314	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 9/11/2009
Subject: Re: Baby Hillstream Loaches! yay!

You have to clean foam out almost every day, I did not enjoy this ;) LOL. I prefer something that needs cleaned either weekly like the filters or every few days. I took the pre-filters off and started using the screens because they're much easier to clean off, I just swish them around in the bucket, with the sponges you have to squeeze them out almost every day, or at least every 2 days in a bucket of removed tank water. With the screens it at least allows some of the smaller particles to make it into the filter system ;) I think I just need slightly bigger screening and I'll be okay. Amber bill 1433 wrote: > > > OR..............simply wrap the entire intake in foam to protect > them. Use some rubber bands to hold the thing in place. > > Bill > > --- On Fri, 9/11/09, Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@... > <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com>> wrote: > > > From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@... > <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com>> > > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: Baby Hillstream Loaches! yay! > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > Date: Friday, September 11, 2009, 11:31 AM > > Follow-up... > > > > AHHHH... I knew if I looked around enough, I'd find someone > > who already came > > up with an idea similar to what I was thinking about and > > this one is even > > simpler than what I was thinking about. I just needed > > the right key words > > when searching Google Images. They're doing this for > > a powerhead but it > > would also work perfectly in your case and you probably > > have one of these > > plastic left-over food storage containers in your cupboard > > just waiting to > > be used on your fish tanks. ;-) > > > > http://www.cichlid-forum.com/articles/diy_powerhead_filter.php > <http://www.cichlid-forum.com/articles/diy_powerhead_filter.php> > > > > In your case, just drill the 3/16" holes in the plastic > > housing and put this > > plastic shield over a Marineland type intake screen but DO > > NOT cover it with > > poly pad media... or you could put some filter floss or > > sponge inside the > > plastic housing when you have fry in the tank IF you see > > them getting stuck > > to the Marineland intake screen. > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed > > on the right > > side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives > > by Year, Month) > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] > > On > > Behalf Of Amber Berglund > > Sent: Friday, September 11, 2009 10:02 AM > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: Baby Hillstream Loaches! > > yay! > > > > I use a mesh screen (that you normally use for windows I > > think but it's > > slightly larger than the window screen "squares" are). > > Obviously it's still small enough to catch almost anything > > that tries to go > > into the filter intakes though, so I have to clean them > > every few days, > > minimum. > > Too bad I can't use something that will keep out fry but > > won't hinder the > > filter in any way ;) LOL. > > I'm not sure if switching the intakes will help or not. > > They don't get stuck > > on my magnum 350 deluxe intake screen, nor do they get > > stuck to the > > powerhead for my fluidized bed filter. They only got stuck > > to the Eheim > > intake, the aquaclear intake, and the rena filstar intake. > > > > Apparently they're designed badly I would say ;) I didn't > > have the aquaclear > > covered as I didn't think it was a hazard, none of the > > snails had gone near > > it so far, but go figure, just when I think it's safe one > > decides to go eat > > lunch on it ;) I think the snail will be okay though, it > > was able to remove > > itself safely from the filter intake with no help from me > > after a couple of > > hours with the filter intake off of the filter, I moved it > > to the 55 gallon > > upstairs so it can heal in peace in case anything would > > have picked on it in > > the 125 gallon. > > Applesnail.net says that it's a very common behavior for > > snails to get > > sucked into filter intakes, perhaps you were just lucky > > with your filter > > intakes? Or maybe you fed the tank well enough so that it > > didn't go > > searching upwards for food ;) I also have a lot of MTS in > > the tank, perhaps > > I should start removing them on lettuce or something? They > > might be out > > competing the mystery snails for food. > > > > Amber > > > > Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > > > > > > > > > Congrats on the babies. > > > > > > I'm not sure what's up with your snails. I never saw > > this behavior > > > with mine. You might want to modify your filter intake > > screens with > > > one of rectangular shaped Marineland filter intake > > screens. I know you > > > have the long slotted intake screens on your Rena > > Filstar intakes and > > > they could be modified to these Marineland intake > > screens. Many people > > > also change out the AquaClear intake screens to the > > Marineland intake > > screens. > > > > > > > http://www.bigalsonline.com/BigAlsUS/ctl3684/cp18665/si1379768/cl0/mar > <http://www.bigalsonline.com/BigAlsUS/ctl3684/cp18665/si1379768/cl0/mar> > > > inelan > > > > <http://www.bigalsonline.com/BigAlsUS/ctl3684/cp18665/si1379768/cl0/ma > <http://www.bigalsonline.com/BigAlsUS/ctl3684/cp18665/si1379768/cl0/ma> > > > rinelan> > > > declipseintakestrainer > > > > > > https://www.marineland.com/store/1-Strainer-P215C0.aspx > <https://www.marineland.com/store/1-Strainer-P215C0.aspx> > > > <https://www.marineland.com/store/1-Strainer-P215C0.aspx > <https://www.marineland.com/store/1-Strainer-P215C0.aspx>> > > > > > > http://thegab.org/Articles/FilterProfileAquaClear20.html > <http://thegab.org/Articles/FilterProfileAquaClear20.html> > > > <http://thegab.org/Articles/FilterProfileAquaClear20.html > <http://thegab.org/Articles/FilterProfileAquaClear20.html>> > > (This > > > article shows how they changed out the intake screen > > on their AC's to > > > the Marineland intake screen) > > > > > > At least with these larger screens, when the snails > > get on them, there > > > should still be plenty of openings where the snail is > > not at so that > > > the snail won't get sucked into the slots. Also, the > > slots are much > > > smaller and not pointy like the AC's or Rena Filstar > > intakes. > > > > > > I imagine the snails are drawn to the intake screens > > to eat any plant > > > leaves that get sucked to the intake screen since they > > are known to > > > like decaying plant matter. > > > > > > Hopefully, with the larger intake screens, they could > > happily munch > > > away without there being too much suction to suck them > > into the slots. > > > > > > Your other option would be to put some kind of a > > larger screen over > > > the intake screens... something that would allow > > detritus to get > > > sucked into the filter without allowing the snails to > > get directly to > > > the intake screen. I have some thoughts going through > > my head for this > > > DIY project for you but I'll have to look around the > > net for suitable > > > products. > > > > > > I know you could use (and probably do use) the round > > foam prefilters > > > on the intakes, which would also keep fry from getting > > sucked into the > > > filters but these seem to defeat the purpose of having > > larger filter > > > systems since the prefilters catch everything instead > > of allowing it > > > to go into the filter to be caught by the filter > > media. Here's an > > > add-on foam pre-filter but this isn't what I'm talking > > about for my > > > thoughts about a larger screen pre-filter. > > > http://www.americanaquariumproducts.com/PreFilter.html > <http://www.americanaquariumproducts.com/PreFilter.html> > > > <http://www.americanaquariumproducts.com/PreFilter.html > <http://www.americanaquariumproducts.com/PreFilter.html>> > > > > > > My thoughts are for something to stop the snails from > > getting to the > > > smaller slots of the normal intake screen but mine > > would not stop fry > > > or other detritus from getting sucked in... just more > > of a safety > > > screen for your snails. > > > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>> (Links > > to any articles referenced in > > > above reply are listed on the right side, > > alphabetically under Labels > > > and also under Archives by Year, Month) > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On > > Behalf Of Amber Berglund > > > Sent: Thursday, September 10, 2009 10:44 PM > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Baby Hillstream Loaches! > > yay! > > > > > > If anyone would like to see a picture of the baby > > loaches here is a > > > link > > > below: > > > http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2551/3907954955_7221c6c104_o.jpg > <http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2551/3907954955_7221c6c104_o.jpg> > > > <http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2551/3907954955_7221c6c104_o.jpg > <http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2551/3907954955_7221c6c104_o.jpg>> > > > cute little guys, I've seen at least 2 out at a time, > > not sure how > > > many I have in there, hard to tell with how over grown > > the plants have > > > gotten lately ;) LOL. > > > > > > Amber > > > > > > Amber Berglund wrote: > > > > Lol, so for once I actually have good news > > instead of bad news with > > > > my fish ;) I actually managed to end up with some > > baby hillstream > > > > loaches. I saw one swimming around on the bottom > > of the tank looking > > > > for food, I thought it was a baby guppy until I > > looked closely. It's > > > > only about a quarter of an inch long including > > it's tiny little fins > > > > (they don't have very long tail fins though). I'm > > glad I ended up > > > > with babies, i got discouraged a bit when I saw > > that one of them had > > > > died last week (with my 2 ram's) after I > > unplugged the UV filter :( > > > > I still have at least 4 adults from what I could > > see (one might be > > > > hiding), there should be 5 of them left plus the > > babies now though. > > > > Oh and my poor snail must've not pulled through, > > I'm not sure if > > > > putting him in a bowl was a good thing or not, or > > perhaps it was > > > > just too late (didn't get air fast enough after > > his lung filled with > > > > water). I had to throw the poor guy away when I > > got home from work > > > today. > > > > And I also had another snail/filter intake > > incident, thought it had > > > > small enough slots and apparently the snail > > stayed for a snack long > > > > enough to get his/her face sucked into the filter > > *sigh* it's still > > > > moving and I'm waiting for it to remove itself > > from the filter on > > > > it's own, sometimes it takes a few hours since > > they swell up due to > > > > loss of blood flow in their bodies. poor thing > > :( > > > > > > > > Amber > > > > > > > > ------------------------------------ > > > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when > > replying, Thank You. > > ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> > > ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> > > PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is > > NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of > > the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new > > subject (was re: old subject)" <- > > <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. > > , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. > > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. > > > > If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of > > unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by > > clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the home page. > > > > Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:aquaticlife-digest%40yahoogroups.com> > > to receive the digest, which includes up to 25 posts at a > > time in a single email > > > > Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:aquaticlife-nomail%40yahoogroups.com> > > for the No E-Mail option where you will still be able to > > read messages on the group and post replies. > > > > Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:aquaticlife-normal%40yahoogroups.com> > > to receive individual e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > mailto:AquaticLife-fullfeatured@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife-fullfeatured%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 43315	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 9/11/2009
Subject: Re: Water Base Lines ----A Warning!

I'm guessing you meant nitrIte, not nitrAte level since we are not able to easily test for such low levels of nitrAtes with our typical aquarium test kits. I'm not sure what to do about this but this typo has been happening a LOT lately. Presuming it was nitrIte, that low of a level is nothing to worry about. With a 25% PWC, you would only be adding less than 0.1ppm of nitrIte which, if your filters are running, would immediately be converted by your nitrifying bacteria. If you are showing a 0.3 nitrite level in your tanks, then something happened to your nitrogen cycle. Add a pinch of salt per 10G to protect your fish from nitrite poisoning while figuring out your cycling issue. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of bill 1433 Sent: Friday, September 11, 2009 10:23 AM To: AquaticLife Subject: [AquaticLife] Water Base Lines ----A Warning! When I first came on this list I was encouraged by Lenny and others to do a Water Base Line in order to establish water parameters and record such, which I did. Lately, I just found a .3 nitrate level in what I thought was my aquarium. I came to find out that it was not. I was putting this in my tank by supply from my well water. Now I'm not sure what the real rules are for checking base lines but I strongly advise all to do one more frequently than once a year! You may be surprised at what you find, I know I was! For you folks that are on city or municipal water, I would check at least every other month. With the economy as it is today, the government agency's are constantly looking at ways of doing things more cheaply. Things they are using or putting in your water supply today, maY not have been there a month or so ago. Check your water! Bill ------------------------------------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. 74/`7.88.><((((:>.74/`7.88.74/`7.8><((((:> 8.74/`7.8. , .74/`7..><((((:> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <:((((><.74/`7.88.74/`7.8<:((((><8.74/`7.8. , .74/`7..<:((((><74/`7.88. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the home page. Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com to receive the digest, which includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com for the No E-Mail option where you will still be able to read messages on the group and post replies. Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com to receive individual e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 43316	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 9/11/2009
Subject: Re: Baby Hillstream Loaches! yay!

See my 2nd follow-up with even better safety shield for snails. Your hillstreams should not end up on or near your filter intakes since they will mostly stick to the bottom or maybe the glass. Do you really ever see them swimming around in the water column??? I know the Guppy fry would be in the water column but not the Hillstream Loaches. The only thing that would work for both fry and snails would be foam sleeves/blocks over the intakes but then they would also keep most of the detritus out of your filters so you would have to clean the foam more often. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Amber Berglund Sent: Friday, September 11, 2009 10:26 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: Baby Hillstream Loaches! yay! I have it wrapped around the end of the intake filter so it stops fry from getting sucked in (was tired of all the guppies and platies in the filter when I clean it ;) So it's there to stop both the snails and the fry from getting sucked in. Your idea would work for snails I think, but I'd still have to worry about fry, and since I finally have my loaches breeding I'd like to not have them all sucked into the filters ;) LOL. I saw the LFS do something like you're suggesting for their planted tank, but it was to keep it from sucking up all the duckweed, LOL. Amber Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > > > I'm not familiar with the Eheim but I know the AC's and Rena's have > the long > slotted intakes. Check out those Marineland intakes I directed you to > in my > earlier reply. There are a LOT more slots on them and the slots are much > smaller so hopefully they will deter your snails from shoving body parts > inside the slots... of course that may not help with the fry but it would > help a little since there is not as much water volume going through each > slot since the intake area is spread out over more slots. It's still > sucking in the same amount of water except each individual slot is > taking in > less volume so there's not as much suction on each individual slot. This > should help your snails and fry from getting sucked in, although you might > still need the foam sleeves/blocks over the intake to protect the fry. > > With the larger screen material you are using, do you have it right > next to > the filter intake or is it about 1/4" out from it? My thoughts were > putting > the 1/4" square type fiberglass screen material so that it formed a safety > bubble around your intake to keep the snails away from the actual intake > slots. Of course, this would provide NO protection for fry. The 1/4" > squares would let more detritus get to the intake and eventually suck up > into the filter but stop the snails from getting too close... much like a > wire shield might be put over/around a commercial incandescent light bulb > fixture to protect the fixture from breakage. Something like image L-30 > (lower left corner image) on this page... > > http://www.complast.com/MESH/VEXAR.HTM > <http://www.complast.com/MESH/VEXAR.HTM> > > You could cut it to make a square or round safety shield and using fishing > line to "tie" the ends together to form the tube or box to fit over the > intake. Then use a tie strip to hold it to the intake tube. > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On > Behalf Of Amber Berglund > Sent: Friday, September 11, 2009 10:02 AM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: Baby Hillstream Loaches! yay! > > I use a mesh screen (that you normally use for windows I think but it's > slightly larger than the window screen "squares" are). > Obviously it's still small enough to catch almost anything that tries > to go > into the filter intakes though, so I have to clean them every few days, > minimum. > Too bad I can't use something that will keep out fry but won't hinder the > filter in any way ;) LOL. > I'm not sure if switching the intakes will help or not. They don't get > stuck > on my magnum 350 deluxe intake screen, nor do they get stuck to the > powerhead for my fluidized bed filter. They only got stuck to the Eheim > intake, the aquaclear intake, and the rena filstar intake. > Apparently they're designed badly I would say ;) I didn't have the > aquaclear > covered as I didn't think it was a hazard, none of the snails had gone > near > it so far, but go figure, just when I think it's safe one decides to > go eat > lunch on it ;) I think the snail will be okay though, it was able to > remove > itself safely from the filter intake with no help from me after a > couple of > hours with the filter intake off of the filter, I moved it to the 55 > gallon > upstairs so it can heal in peace in case anything would have picked on > it in > the 125 gallon. > Applesnail.net says that it's a very common behavior for snails to get > sucked into filter intakes, perhaps you were just lucky with your filter > intakes? Or maybe you fed the tank well enough so that it didn't go > searching upwards for food ;) I also have a lot of MTS in the tank, > perhaps > I should start removing them on lettuce or something? They might be out > competing the mystery snails for food. > > Amber > > Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > > > > > > Congrats on the babies. > > > > I'm not sure what's up with your snails. I never saw this behavior > > with mine. You might want to modify your filter intake screens with > > one of rectangular shaped Marineland filter intake screens. I know you > > have the long slotted intake screens on your Rena Filstar intakes and > > they could be modified to these Marineland intake screens. Many people > > also change out the AquaClear intake screens to the Marineland intake > screens. > > > > > http://www.bigalsonline.com/BigAlsUS/ctl3684/cp18665/si1379768/cl0/mar > <http://www.bigalsonline.com/BigAlsUS/ctl3684/cp18665/si1379768/cl0/mar> > > inelan > > > <http://www.bigalsonline.com/BigAlsUS/ctl3684/cp18665/si1379768/cl0/ma > <http://www.bigalsonline.com/BigAlsUS/ctl3684/cp18665/si1379768/cl0/ma> > > rinelan> > > declipseintakestrainer > > > > https://www.marineland.com/store/1-Strainer-P215C0.aspx > <https://www.marineland.com/store/1-Strainer-P215C0.aspx> > > <https://www.marineland.com/store/1-Strainer-P215C0.aspx > <https://www.marineland.com/store/1-Strainer-P215C0.aspx>> > > > > http://thegab.org/Articles/FilterProfileAquaClear20.html > <http://thegab.org/Articles/FilterProfileAquaClear20.html> > > <http://thegab.org/Articles/FilterProfileAquaClear20.html > <http://thegab.org/Articles/FilterProfileAquaClear20.html>> (This > > article shows how they changed out the intake screen on their AC's to > > the Marineland intake screen) > > > > At least with these larger screens, when the snails get on them, there > > should still be plenty of openings where the snail is not at so that > > the snail won't get sucked into the slots. Also, the slots are much > > smaller and not pointy like the AC's or Rena Filstar intakes. > > > > I imagine the snails are drawn to the intake screens to eat any plant > > leaves that get sucked to the intake screen since they are known to > > like decaying plant matter. > > > > Hopefully, with the larger intake screens, they could happily munch > > away without there being too much suction to suck them into the slots. > > > > Your other option would be to put some kind of a larger screen over > > the intake screens... something that would allow detritus to get > > sucked into the filter without allowing the snails to get directly to > > the intake screen. I have some thoughts going through my head for this > > DIY project for you but I'll have to look around the net for suitable > > products. > > > > I know you could use (and probably do use) the round foam prefilters > > on the intakes, which would also keep fry from getting sucked into the > > filters but these seem to defeat the purpose of having larger filter > > systems since the prefilters catch everything instead of allowing it > > to go into the filter to be caught by the filter media. Here's an > > add-on foam pre-filter but this isn't what I'm talking about for my > > thoughts about a larger screen pre-filter. > > http://www.americanaquariumproducts.com/PreFilter.html > <http://www.americanaquariumproducts.com/PreFilter.html> > > <http://www.americanaquariumproducts.com/PreFilter.html > <http://www.americanaquariumproducts.com/PreFilter.html>> > > > > My thoughts are for something to stop the snails from getting to the > > smaller slots of the normal intake screen but mine would not stop fry > > or other detritus from getting sucked in... just more of a safety > > screen for your snails. > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>> > (Links to any articles referenced in > > above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels > > and also under Archives by Year, Month) > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On Behalf Of Amber Berglund > > Sent: Thursday, September 10, 2009 10:44 PM > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Baby Hillstream Loaches! yay! > > > > If anyone would like to see a picture of the baby loaches here is a > > link > > below: > > http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2551/3907954955_7221c6c104_o.jpg > <http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2551/3907954955_7221c6c104_o.jpg> > > <http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2551/3907954955_7221c6c104_o.jpg > <http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2551/3907954955_7221c6c104_o.jpg>> > > cute little guys, I've seen at least 2 out at a time, not sure how > > many I have in there, hard to tell with how over grown the plants have > > gotten lately ;) LOL. > > > > Amber > > > > Amber Berglund wrote: > > > Lol, so for once I actually have good news instead of bad news with > > > my fish ;) I actually managed to end up with some baby hillstream > > > loaches. I saw one swimming around on the bottom of the tank looking > > > for food, I thought it was a baby guppy until I looked closely. It's > > > only about a quarter of an inch long including it's tiny little fins > > > (they don't have very long tail fins though). I'm glad I ended up > > > with babies, i got discouraged a bit when I saw that one of them had > > > died last week (with my 2 ram's) after I unplugged the UV filter :( > > > I still have at least 4 adults from what I could see (one might be > > > hiding), there should be 5 of them left plus the babies now though. > > > Oh and my poor snail must've not pulled through, I'm not sure if > > > putting him in a bowl was a good thing or not, or perhaps it was > > > just too late (didn't get air fast enough after his lung filled with > > > water). I had to throw the poor guy away when I got home from work > > today. > > > And I also had another snail/filter intake incident, thought it had > > > small enough slots and apparently the snail stayed for a snack long > > > enough to get his/her face sucked into the filter *sigh* it's still > > > moving and I'm waiting for it to remove itself from the filter on > > > it's own, sometimes it takes a few hours since they swell up due to > > > loss of blood flow in their bodies. poor thing :( > > > > > > Amber > > > > > > ------------------------------------ > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. > ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> > PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to > the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the > SUBJECT > LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- > <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. > > If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of unsubscribing, you > can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the > home page. > > Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:aquaticlife-digest%40yahoogroups.com> to receive the digest, which > includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email > > Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:aquaticlife-nomail%40yahoogroups.com> for the No E-Mail option > where > you will still be able to read messages on the group and post replies. > > Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:aquaticlife-normal%40yahoogroups.com> to receive individual > e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links > > ------------------------------------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the home page. Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com to receive the digest, which includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com for the No E-Mail option where you will still be able to read messages on the group and post replies. Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com to receive individual e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 43317	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 9/11/2009
Subject: Re: Baby Hillstream Loaches! yay!

To me, this seems like a very good DIY pre-filter housing that could also be used in a H-tank for a sick fish to keep if from getting sucked onto an intake screen... although an H-tank should not have such strong filtration anyhow. And you could use the space between the plastic housing and the intake screen for other filter media like a sponge or filter pad when you have fry in the tank. The plastic cover would stay in place above your normal filter intake so you could pop off the clear plastic holey part to add other media to the housing. If you use the Marineland intake screen (rectangular kind) which would hold the lid of the plastic safety shield in place... unless the hole in the lid is drilled precisely enough to make it fit snuggly on the intake tube above a normal filter intake screen. The BIG question though... why are these hubby's "little plastic containers"? Does that mean you make him do all the cooking and storage of left-over's? What ever happened to "A woman's place is in the kitchen!".... oh yeah... "Those were the days!" http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0d8FTPv955I comes to mind again. LOL Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Amber Berglund Sent: Friday, September 11, 2009 10:34 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: Baby Hillstream Loaches! yay! Hey the hubby shouldn't mind if I use his little plastic containers, right? ;) LOL That's a good idea though, wonder how well it works. amber Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > > > Follow-up... > > AHHHH... I knew if I looked around enough, I'd find someone who > already came up with an idea similar to what I was thinking about and > this one is even simpler than what I was thinking about. I just needed > the right key words when searching Google Images. They're doing this > for a powerhead but it would also work perfectly in your case and you > probably have one of these plastic left-over food storage containers > in your cupboard just waiting to be used on your fish tanks. ;-) > > http://www.cichlid-forum.com/articles/diy_powerhead_filter.php > <http://www.cichlid-forum.com/articles/diy_powerhead_filter.php> > > In your case, just drill the 3/16" holes in the plastic housing and > put this plastic shield over a Marineland type intake screen but DO > NOT cover it with poly pad media... or you could put some filter floss > or sponge inside the plastic housing when you have fry in the tank IF > you see them getting stuck to the Marineland intake screen. > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> (Links to any articles referenced in > above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels > and also under Archives by Year, Month) > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On Behalf Of Amber Berglund > Sent: Friday, September 11, 2009 10:02 AM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: Baby Hillstream Loaches! yay! > > I use a mesh screen (that you normally use for windows I think but > it's slightly larger than the window screen "squares" are). > Obviously it's still small enough to catch almost anything that tries > to go into the filter intakes though, so I have to clean them every > few days, minimum. > Too bad I can't use something that will keep out fry but won't hinder > the filter in any way ;) LOL. > I'm not sure if switching the intakes will help or not. They don't get > stuck on my magnum 350 deluxe intake screen, nor do they get stuck to > the powerhead for my fluidized bed filter. They only got stuck to the > Eheim intake, the aquaclear intake, and the rena filstar intake. > Apparently they're designed badly I would say ;) I didn't have the > aquaclear covered as I didn't think it was a hazard, none of the > snails had gone near it so far, but go figure, just when I think it's > safe one decides to go eat lunch on it ;) I think the snail will be > okay though, it was able to remove itself safely from the filter > intake with no help from me after a couple of hours with the filter > intake off of the filter, I moved it to the 55 gallon upstairs so it > can heal in peace in case anything would have picked on it in the 125 > gallon. > Applesnail.net says that it's a very common behavior for snails to get > sucked into filter intakes, perhaps you were just lucky with your > filter intakes? Or maybe you fed the tank well enough so that it > didn't go searching upwards for food ;) I also have a lot of MTS in > the tank, perhaps I should start removing them on lettuce or > something? They might be out competing the mystery snails for food. > > Amber > > Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > > > > > > Congrats on the babies. > > > > I'm not sure what's up with your snails. I never saw this behavior > > with mine. You might want to modify your filter intake screens with > > one of rectangular shaped Marineland filter intake screens. I know you > > have the long slotted intake screens on your Rena Filstar intakes and > > they could be modified to these Marineland intake screens. Many people > > also change out the AquaClear intake screens to the Marineland intake > screens. > > > > > http://www.bigalsonline.com/BigAlsUS/ctl3684/cp18665/si1379768/cl0/mar > <http://www.bigalsonline.com/BigAlsUS/ctl3684/cp18665/si1379768/cl0/mar> > > inelan > > > <http://www.bigalsonline.com/BigAlsUS/ctl3684/cp18665/si1379768/cl0/ma > <http://www.bigalsonline.com/BigAlsUS/ctl3684/cp18665/si1379768/cl0/ma> > > rinelan> > > declipseintakestrainer > > > > https://www.marineland.com/store/1-Strainer-P215C0.aspx > <https://www.marineland.com/store/1-Strainer-P215C0.aspx> > > <https://www.marineland.com/store/1-Strainer-P215C0.aspx > <https://www.marineland.com/store/1-Strainer-P215C0.aspx>> > > > > http://thegab.org/Articles/FilterProfileAquaClear20.html > <http://thegab.org/Articles/FilterProfileAquaClear20.html> > > <http://thegab.org/Articles/FilterProfileAquaClear20.html > <http://thegab.org/Articles/FilterProfileAquaClear20.html>> (This > > article shows how they changed out the intake screen on their AC's to > > the Marineland intake screen) > > > > At least with these larger screens, when the snails get on them, there > > should still be plenty of openings where the snail is not at so that > > the snail won't get sucked into the slots. Also, the slots are much > > smaller and not pointy like the AC's or Rena Filstar intakes. > > > > I imagine the snails are drawn to the intake screens to eat any plant > > leaves that get sucked to the intake screen since they are known to > > like decaying plant matter. > > > > Hopefully, with the larger intake screens, they could happily munch > > away without there being too much suction to suck them into the slots. > > > > Your other option would be to put some kind of a larger screen over > > the intake screens... something that would allow detritus to get > > sucked into the filter without allowing the snails to get directly to > > the intake screen. I have some thoughts going through my head for this > > DIY project for you but I'll have to look around the net for suitable > > products. > > > > I know you could use (and probably do use) the round foam prefilters > > on the intakes, which would also keep fry from getting sucked into the > > filters but these seem to defeat the purpose of having larger filter > > systems since the prefilters catch everything instead of allowing it > > to go into the filter to be caught by the filter media. Here's an > > add-on foam pre-filter but this isn't what I'm talking about for my > > thoughts about a larger screen pre-filter. > > http://www.americanaquariumproducts.com/PreFilter.html > <http://www.americanaquariumproducts.com/PreFilter.html> > > <http://www.americanaquariumproducts.com/PreFilter.html > <http://www.americanaquariumproducts.com/PreFilter.html>> > > > > My thoughts are for something to stop the snails from getting to the > > smaller slots of the normal intake screen but mine would not stop fry > > or other detritus from getting sucked in... just more of a safety > > screen for your snails. > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>> > (Links to any articles referenced in > > above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels > > and also under Archives by Year, Month) > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On Behalf Of Amber Berglund > > Sent: Thursday, September 10, 2009 10:44 PM > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Baby Hillstream Loaches! yay! > > > > If anyone would like to see a picture of the baby loaches here is a > > link > > below: > > http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2551/3907954955_7221c6c104_o.jpg > <http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2551/3907954955_7221c6c104_o.jpg> > > <http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2551/3907954955_7221c6c104_o.jpg > <http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2551/3907954955_7221c6c104_o.jpg>> > > cute little guys, I've seen at least 2 out at a time, not sure how > > many I have in there, hard to tell with how over grown the plants have > > gotten lately ;) LOL. > > > > Amber > > > > Amber Berglund wrote: > > > Lol, so for once I actually have good news instead of bad news with > > > my fish ;) I actually managed to end up with some baby hillstream > > > loaches. I saw one swimming around on the bottom of the tank looking > > > for food, I thought it was a baby guppy until I looked closely. It's > > > only about a quarter of an inch long including it's tiny little fins > > > (they don't have very long tail fins though). I'm glad I ended up > > > with babies, i got discouraged a bit when I saw that one of them had > > > died last week (with my 2 ram's) after I unplugged the UV filter :( > > > I still have at least 4 adults from what I could see (one might be > > > hiding), there should be 5 of them left plus the babies now though. > > > Oh and my poor snail must've not pulled through, I'm not sure if > > > putting him in a bowl was a good thing or not, or perhaps it was > > > just too late (didn't get air fast enough after his lung filled with > > > water). I had to throw the poor guy away when I got home from work > > today. > > > And I also had another snail/filter intake incident, thought it had > > > small enough slots and apparently the snail stayed for a snack long > > > enough to get his/her face sucked into the filter *sigh* it's still > > > moving and I'm waiting for it to remove itself from the filter on > > > it's own, sometimes it takes a few hours since they swell up due to > > > loss of blood flow in their bodies. poor thing :( > > > > > > Amber > > ------------------------------------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the home page. Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com to receive the digest, which includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com for the No E-Mail option where you will still be able to read messages on the group and post replies. Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com to receive individual e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 43318	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 9/11/2009
Subject: Re: Baby Hillstream Loaches! yay!

The only problem with using foam over the intake, which, I admit, is the only thing that would work for both fry and snail protection, is that the foam also catches all of the detritus so the detritus doesn't make it into the filter... kind of defeating the purpose of why we have filters with lots of advanced filter media to catch every thing. Of course, the foam would serve as a good feeding area for the snails and fry so there's nothing wrong with it.. I was just trying to find a good snail safety shield and the fry would have to figure out on their own to NOT go past that shield... maybe little signs "No Fry Zone" would work. ;-) Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of bill 1433 Sent: Friday, September 11, 2009 10:36 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: Baby Hillstream Loaches! yay! OR..............simply wrap the entire intake in foam to protect them. Use some rubber bands to hold the thing in place. Bill --- On Fri, 9/11/09, Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@...> wrote: > From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@...> > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: Baby Hillstream Loaches! yay! > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Date: Friday, September 11, 2009, 11:31 AM Follow-up... > > AHHHH... I knew if I looked around enough, I'd find someone who > already came up with an idea similar to what I was thinking about and > this one is even simpler than what I was thinking about.  I just > needed the right key words when searching Google Images.  They're > doing this for a powerhead but it would also work perfectly in your > case and you probably have one of these plastic left-over food storage > containers in your cupboard just waiting to be used on your fish > tanks. ;-) > > http://www.cichlid-forum.com/articles/diy_powerhead_filter.php > > In your case, just drill the 3/16" holes in the plastic housing and > put this plastic shield over a Marineland type intake screen but DO > NOT cover it with poly pad media... or you could put some filter floss > or sponge inside the plastic housing when you have fry in the tank IF > you see them getting stuck to the Marineland intake screen. > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles > referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically > under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] > On > Behalf Of Amber Berglund > Sent: Friday, September 11, 2009 10:02 AM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: Baby Hillstream Loaches! > yay! > > I use a mesh screen (that you normally use for windows I > think but it's > slightly larger than the window screen "squares" are). > Obviously it's still small enough to catch almost anything > that tries to go > into the filter intakes though, so I have to clean them > every few days, > minimum. > Too bad I can't use something that will keep out fry but > won't hinder the > filter in any way ;) LOL. > I'm not sure if switching the intakes will help or not. > They don't get stuck > on my magnum 350 deluxe intake screen, nor do they get > stuck to the > powerhead for my fluidized bed filter. They only got stuck > to the Eheim > intake, the aquaclear intake, and the rena filstar intake. > > Apparently they're designed badly I would say ;) I didn't > have the aquaclear > covered as I didn't think it was a hazard, none of the > snails had gone near > it so far, but go figure, just when I think it's safe one > decides to go eat > lunch on it ;) I think the snail will be okay though, it > was able to remove > itself safely from the filter intake with no help from me > after a couple of > hours with the filter intake off of the filter, I moved it > to the 55 gallon > upstairs so it can heal in peace in case anything would > have picked on it in > the 125 gallon. > Applesnail.net says that it's a very common behavior for > snails to get > sucked into filter intakes, perhaps you were just lucky > with your filter > intakes? Or maybe you fed the tank well enough so that it > didn't go > searching upwards for food ;) I also have a lot of MTS in > the tank, perhaps > I should start removing them on lettuce or something? They > might be out > competing the mystery snails for food. > > Amber > > Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > >  > > > > Congrats on the babies. > > > > I'm not sure what's up with your snails. I never saw > this behavior > > with mine. You might want to modify your filter intake > screens with > > one of rectangular shaped Marineland filter intake > screens. I know you > > have the long slotted intake screens on your Rena > Filstar intakes and > > they could be modified to these Marineland intake > screens. Many people > > also change out the AquaClear intake screens to the > Marineland intake > screens. > > > > http://www.bigalsonline.com/BigAlsUS/ctl3684/cp18665/si1379768/cl0/mar > > inelan > > <http://www.bigalsonline.com/BigAlsUS/ctl3684/cp18665/si1379768/cl0/ma > > rinelan> > > declipseintakestrainer > > > > https://www.marineland.com/store/1-Strainer-P215C0.aspx > > <https://www.marineland.com/store/1-Strainer-P215C0.aspx> > > > > http://thegab.org/Articles/FilterProfileAquaClear20.html > > <http://thegab.org/Articles/FilterProfileAquaClear20.html> > (This > > article shows how they changed out the intake screen > on their AC's to > > the Marineland intake screen) > > > > At least with these larger screens, when the snails > get on them, there > > should still be plenty of openings where the snail is > not at so that > > the snail won't get sucked into the slots. Also, the > slots are much > > smaller and not pointy like the AC's or Rena Filstar > intakes. > > > > I imagine the snails are drawn to the intake screens > to eat any plant > > leaves that get sucked to the intake screen since they > are known to > > like decaying plant matter. > > > > Hopefully, with the larger intake screens, they could > happily munch > > away without there being too much suction to suck them > into the slots. > > > > Your other option would be to put some kind of a > larger screen over > > the intake screens... something that would allow > detritus to get > > sucked into the filter without allowing the snails to > get directly to > > the intake screen. I have some thoughts going through > my head for this > > DIY project for you but I'll have to look around the > net for suitable > > products. > > > > I know you could use (and probably do use) the round > foam prefilters > > on the intakes, which would also keep fry from getting > sucked into the > > filters but these seem to defeat the purpose of having > larger filter > > systems since the prefilters catch everything instead > of allowing it > > to go into the filter to be caught by the filter > media. Here's an > > add-on foam pre-filter but this isn't what I'm talking > about for my > > thoughts about a larger screen pre-filter. > > http://www.americanaquariumproducts.com/PreFilter.html > > <http://www.americanaquariumproducts.com/PreFilter.html> > > > > My thoughts are for something to stop the snails from > getting to the > > smaller slots of the normal intake screen but mine > would not stop fry > > or other detritus from getting sucked in... just more > of a safety > > screen for your snails. > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> (Links > to any articles referenced in > > above reply are listed on the right side, > alphabetically under Labels > > and also under Archives by Year, Month) > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On > Behalf Of Amber Berglund > > Sent: Thursday, September 10, 2009 10:44 PM > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Baby Hillstream Loaches! > yay! > > > > If anyone would like to see a picture of the baby > loaches here is a > > link > > below: > > http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2551/3907954955_7221c6c104_o.jpg > > <http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2551/3907954955_7221c6c104_o.jpg> > > cute little guys, I've seen at least 2 out at a time, > not sure how > > many I have in there, hard to tell with how over grown > the plants have > > gotten lately ;) LOL. > > > > Amber > > > > Amber Berglund wrote: > > > Lol, so for once I actually have good news > instead of bad news with > > > my fish ;) I actually managed to end up with some > baby hillstream > > > loaches. I saw one swimming around on the bottom > of the tank looking > > > for food, I thought it was a baby guppy until I > looked closely. It's > > > only about a quarter of an inch long including > it's tiny little fins > > > (they don't have very long tail fins though). I'm > glad I ended up > > > with babies, i got discouraged a bit when I saw > that one of them had > > > died last week (with my 2 ram's) after I > unplugged the UV filter :( > > > I still have at least 4 adults from what I could > see (one might be > > > hiding), there should be 5 of them left plus the > babies now though. > > > Oh and my poor snail must've not pulled through, > I'm not sure if > > > putting him in a bowl was a good thing or not, or > perhaps it was > > > just too late (didn't get air fast enough after > his lung filled with > > > water). I had to throw the poor guy away when I > got home from work > > today. > > > And I also had another snail/filter intake > incident, thought it had > > > small enough slots and apparently the snail > stayed for a snack long > > > enough to get his/her face sucked into the filter > *sigh* it's still > > > moving and I'm waiting for it to remove itself > from the filter on > > > it's own, sometimes it takes a few hours since > they swell up due to > > > loss of blood flow in their bodies. poor thing > :( > > > > > > Amber

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 43319	From: fishdudeut	Date: 9/11/2009
Subject: Re: Fishless Cycle.

After my 25% PCW for 3 days I did get the KH back up to 3 and the PH back to 7.4. 9/09 0 Ammonia 5 Nitrite 10+ Nitrate PH 7.4 KH 3 GH 12 9/10 0 Ammonia 5+ Nitrite 40 Nitrate PH 7.4 KH 2 GH 12 9/11 0 Ammonia 5- Nitrite 40/80 Nitrate PH 7.2 KH 2 GH 12 I have been check twice a day and I see my PH and GH starting to drop my Nitrite is also starting to drop (like it should) but my Nitrate going up like it should. With the PH and KH starting to drop should I do another water change or just keep an eye on it to make sure it doesn't crash again? I've started half dosing ammonia like all the guides tell you to do when your nitrite spikes. --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@...> wrote: > > Do a 25% PWC each day for the next few days. You don't want to overly shock > your nitrifying bacteria colonies. That will raise both the pH and KH and > get your cycling going again. > > This is why I asked about the KH level a while back. I figured that was > what happened due to the overdosing of so much ammonia early on. Once you > do the series of PWC's, after each one, test your ammonia and dose as needed > to bring it up to 4-5ppm, then dose your ammonia as needed after that and > you should see your cycling start to take off. Check your KH every few days > but you should be OK once you do these three PWC's. > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right > side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) > > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On > Behalf Of fishdudeut > Sent: Sunday, September 06, 2009 5:35 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Fishless Cycle. > > Well I think I found Te problem. I did a full set of test today and > > Ammonia 0 - Nitrite 0+ - Nitrate 10 - PH 6.0 - KH 1.0 + GH 15. > > I have never and that low of PH before and yes I test with both test kits. > > I test my tap water KH and it was 6. I also have a 55 gallon drum I have for > water and tested it and it was 6 as well. It's been there for about 2 > weeks. Tank water is 1 maybe 2. It was very faint in the colors. > > Should I do a large water change or what? The PH is freakish low as well. > The PH of tap water is 7.6.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 43320	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 9/11/2009
Subject: Re: Baby Hillstream Loaches! yay!

I haven't seen any of the loaches in the filters yet, but I do see them swimming from object to object so yes, they do go into the water column to move to different objects, much like pleco's do when they're eating algae off of stuff. Amber Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > > > See my 2nd follow-up with even better safety shield for snails. Your > hillstreams should not end up on or near your filter intakes since > they will > mostly stick to the bottom or maybe the glass. Do you really ever see them > swimming around in the water column??? I know the Guppy fry would be > in the > water column but not the Hillstream Loaches. > > The only thing that would work for both fry and snails would be foam > sleeves/blocks over the intakes but then they would also keep most of the > detritus out of your filters so you would have to clean the foam more > often. > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right > side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) > > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On > Behalf Of Amber Berglund > Sent: Friday, September 11, 2009 10:26 AM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: Baby Hillstream Loaches! yay! > > I have it wrapped around the end of the intake filter so it stops fry from > getting sucked in (was tired of all the guppies and platies in the filter > when I clean it ;) So it's there to stop both the snails and the fry from > getting sucked in. Your idea would work for snails I think, but I'd still > have to worry about fry, and since I finally have my loaches breeding I'd > like to not have them all sucked into the filters ;) LOL. > I saw the LFS do something like you're suggesting for their planted tank, > but it was to keep it from sucking up all the duckweed, LOL. > > Amber > > Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > > > > > > I'm not familiar with the Eheim but I know the AC's and Rena's have > > the long > > slotted intakes. Check out those Marineland intakes I directed you to > > in my > > earlier reply. There are a LOT more slots on them and the slots are much > > smaller so hopefully they will deter your snails from shoving body parts > > inside the slots... of course that may not help with the fry but it > would > > help a little since there is not as much water volume going through each > > slot since the intake area is spread out over more slots. It's still > > sucking in the same amount of water except each individual slot is > > taking in > > less volume so there's not as much suction on each individual slot. This > > should help your snails and fry from getting sucked in, although you > might > > still need the foam sleeves/blocks over the intake to protect the fry. > > > > With the larger screen material you are using, do you have it right > > next to > > the filter intake or is it about 1/4" out from it? My thoughts were > > putting > > the 1/4" square type fiberglass screen material so that it formed a > safety > > bubble around your intake to keep the snails away from the actual intake > > slots. Of course, this would provide NO protection for fry. The 1/4" > > squares would let more detritus get to the intake and eventually suck up > > into the filter but stop the snails from getting too close... much > like a > > wire shield might be put over/around a commercial incandescent light > bulb > > fixture to protect the fixture from breakage. Something like image L-30 > > (lower left corner image) on this page... > > > > http://www.complast.com/MESH/VEXAR.HTM > <http://www.complast.com/MESH/VEXAR.HTM> > > <http://www.complast.com/MESH/VEXAR.HTM > <http://www.complast.com/MESH/VEXAR.HTM>> > > > > You could cut it to make a square or round safety shield and using > fishing > > line to "tie" the ends together to form the tube or box to fit over the > > intake. Then use a tie strip to hold it to the intake tube. > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On > > Behalf Of Amber Berglund > > Sent: Friday, September 11, 2009 10:02 AM > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: Baby Hillstream Loaches! yay! > > > > I use a mesh screen (that you normally use for windows I think but it's > > slightly larger than the window screen "squares" are). > > Obviously it's still small enough to catch almost anything that tries > > to go > > into the filter intakes though, so I have to clean them every few days, > > minimum. > > Too bad I can't use something that will keep out fry but won't > hinder the > > filter in any way ;) LOL. > > I'm not sure if switching the intakes will help or not. They don't get > > stuck > > on my magnum 350 deluxe intake screen, nor do they get stuck to the > > powerhead for my fluidized bed filter. They only got stuck to the Eheim > > intake, the aquaclear intake, and the rena filstar intake. > > Apparently they're designed badly I would say ;) I didn't have the > > aquaclear > > covered as I didn't think it was a hazard, none of the snails had gone > > near > > it so far, but go figure, just when I think it's safe one decides to > > go eat > > lunch on it ;) I think the snail will be okay though, it was able to > > remove > > itself safely from the filter intake with no help from me after a > > couple of > > hours with the filter intake off of the filter, I moved it to the 55 > > gallon > > upstairs so it can heal in peace in case anything would have picked on > > it in > > the 125 gallon. > > Applesnail.net says that it's a very common behavior for snails to get > > sucked into filter intakes, perhaps you were just lucky with your filter > > intakes? Or maybe you fed the tank well enough so that it didn't go > > searching upwards for food ;) I also have a lot of MTS in the tank, > > perhaps > > I should start removing them on lettuce or something? They might be out > > competing the mystery snails for food. > > > > Amber > > > > Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > > > > > > > > > Congrats on the babies. > > > > > > I'm not sure what's up with your snails. I never saw this behavior > > > with mine. You might want to modify your filter intake screens with > > > one of rectangular shaped Marineland filter intake screens. I know you > > > have the long slotted intake screens on your Rena Filstar intakes and > > > they could be modified to these Marineland intake screens. Many people > > > also change out the AquaClear intake screens to the Marineland intake > > screens. > > > > > > > > > http://www.bigalsonline.com/BigAlsUS/ctl3684/cp18665/si1379768/cl0/mar > <http://www.bigalsonline.com/BigAlsUS/ctl3684/cp18665/si1379768/cl0/mar> > > > <http://www.bigalsonline.com/BigAlsUS/ctl3684/cp18665/si1379768/cl0/mar > <http://www.bigalsonline.com/BigAlsUS/ctl3684/cp18665/si1379768/cl0/mar>> > > > inelan > > > > > > <http://www.bigalsonline.com/BigAlsUS/ctl3684/cp18665/si1379768/cl0/ma > <http://www.bigalsonline.com/BigAlsUS/ctl3684/cp18665/si1379768/cl0/ma> > > > <http://www.bigalsonline.com/BigAlsUS/ctl3684/cp18665/si1379768/cl0/ma > <http://www.bigalsonline.com/BigAlsUS/ctl3684/cp18665/si1379768/cl0/ma>> > > > rinelan> > > > declipseintakestrainer > > > > > > https://www.marineland.com/store/1-Strainer-P215C0.aspx > <https://www.marineland.com/store/1-Strainer-P215C0.aspx> > > <https://www.marineland.com/store/1-Strainer-P215C0.aspx > <https://www.marineland.com/store/1-Strainer-P215C0.aspx>> > > > <https://www.marineland.com/store/1-Strainer-P215C0.aspx > <https://www.marineland.com/store/1-Strainer-P215C0.aspx> > > <https://www.marineland.com/store/1-Strainer-P215C0.aspx > <https://www.marineland.com/store/1-Strainer-P215C0.aspx>>> > > > > > > http://thegab.org/Articles/FilterProfileAquaClear20.html > <http://thegab.org/Articles/FilterProfileAquaClear20.html> > > <http://thegab.org/Articles/FilterProfileAquaClear20.html > <http://thegab.org/Articles/FilterProfileAquaClear20.html>> > > > <http://thegab.org/Articles/FilterProfileAquaClear20.html > <http://thegab.org/Articles/FilterProfileAquaClear20.html> > > <http://thegab.org/Articles/FilterProfileAquaClear20.html > <http://thegab.org/Articles/FilterProfileAquaClear20.html>>> (This > > > article shows how they changed out the intake screen on their AC's to > > > the Marineland intake screen) > > > > > > At least with these larger screens, when the snails get on them, there > > > should still be plenty of openings where the snail is not at so that > > > the snail won't get sucked into the slots. Also, the slots are much > > > smaller and not pointy like the AC's or Rena Filstar intakes. > > > > > > I imagine the snails are drawn to the intake screens to eat any plant > > > leaves that get sucked to the intake screen since they are known to > > > like decaying plant matter. > > > > > > Hopefully, with the larger intake screens, they could happily munch > > > away without there being too much suction to suck them into the slots. > > > > > > Your other option would be to put some kind of a larger screen over > > > the intake screens... something that would allow detritus to get > > > sucked into the filter without allowing the snails to get directly to > > > the intake screen. I have some thoughts going through my head for this > > > DIY project for you but I'll have to look around the net for suitable > > > products. > > > > > > I know you could use (and probably do use) the round foam prefilters > > > on the intakes, which would also keep fry from getting sucked into the > > > filters but these seem to defeat the purpose of having larger filter > > > systems since the prefilters catch everything instead of allowing it > > > to go into the filter to be caught by the filter media. Here's an > > > add-on foam pre-filter but this isn't what I'm talking about for my > > > thoughts about a larger screen pre-filter. > > > http://www.americanaquariumproducts.com/PreFilter.html > <http://www.americanaquariumproducts.com/PreFilter.html> > > <http://www.americanaquariumproducts.com/PreFilter.html > <http://www.americanaquariumproducts.com/PreFilter.html>> > > > <http://www.americanaquariumproducts.com/PreFilter.html > <http://www.americanaquariumproducts.com/PreFilter.html> > > <http://www.americanaquariumproducts.com/PreFilter.html > <http://www.americanaquariumproducts.com/PreFilter.html>>> > > > > > > My thoughts are for something to stop the snails from getting to the > > > smaller slots of the normal intake screen but mine would not stop fry > > > or other detritus from getting sucked in... just more of a safety > > > screen for your snails. > > > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>> > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>>> > > (Links to any articles referenced in > > > above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels > > > and also under Archives by Year, Month) > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On Behalf Of Amber Berglund > > > Sent: Thursday, September 10, 2009 10:44 PM > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Baby Hillstream Loaches! yay! > > > > > > If anyone would like to see a picture of the baby loaches here is a > > > link > > > below: > > > http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2551/3907954955_7221c6c104_o.jpg > <http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2551/3907954955_7221c6c104_o.jpg> > > <http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2551/3907954955_7221c6c104_o.jpg > <http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2551/3907954955_7221c6c104_o.jpg>> > > > <http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2551/3907954955_7221c6c104_o.jpg > <http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2551/3907954955_7221c6c104_o.jpg> > > <http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2551/3907954955_7221c6c104_o.jpg > <http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2551/3907954955_7221c6c104_o.jpg>>> > > > cute little guys, I've seen at least 2 out at a time, not sure how > > > many I have in there, hard to tell with how over grown the plants have > > > gotten lately ;) LOL. > > > > > > Amber > > > > > > Amber Berglund wrote: > > > > Lol, so for once I actually have good news instead of bad news with > > > > my fish ;) I actually managed to end up with some baby hillstream > > > > loaches. I saw one swimming around on the bottom of the tank looking > > > > for food, I thought it was a baby guppy until I looked closely. It's > > > > only about a quarter of an inch long including it's tiny little fins > > > > (they don't have very long tail fins though). I'm glad I ended up > > > > with babies, i got discouraged a bit when I saw that one of them had > > > > died last week (with my 2 ram's) after I unplugged the UV filter :( > > > > I still have at least 4 adults from what I could see (one might be > > > > hiding), there should be 5 of them left plus the babies now though. > > > > Oh and my poor snail must've not pulled through, I'm not sure if > > > > putting him in a bowl was a good thing or not, or perhaps it was > > > > just too late (didn't get air fast enough after his lung filled with > > > > water). I had to throw the poor guy away when I got home from work > > > today. > > > > And I also had another snail/filter intake incident, thought it had > > > > small enough slots and apparently the snail stayed for a snack long > > > > enough to get his/her face sucked into the filter *sigh* it's still > > > > moving and I'm waiting for it to remove itself from the filter on > > > > it's own, sometimes it takes a few hours since they swell up due to > > > > loss of blood flow in their bodies. poor thing :( > > > > > > > > Amber > > > > > > > > > > ------------------------------------ > > > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, > Thank You. > > ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> > > PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT > important to > > the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the > > SUBJECT > > LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- > > <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. > > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. > > > > If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of > unsubscribing, you > > can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My Membership" > on the > > home page. > > > > Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:aquaticlife-digest%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:aquaticlife-digest%40yahoogroups.com> to receive the digest, > which > > includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email > > > > Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:aquaticlife-nomail%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:aquaticlife-nomail%40yahoogroups.com> for the No E-Mail option > > where > > you will still be able to read messages on the group and post replies. > > > > Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:aquaticlife-normal%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:aquaticlife-normal%40yahoogroups.com> to receive individual > > e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > ------------------------------------ > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. > ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> > PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to > the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the > SUBJECT > LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- > <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. > > If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of unsubscribing, you > can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the > home page. > > Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:aquaticlife-digest%40yahoogroups.com> to receive the digest, which > includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email > > Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:aquaticlife-nomail%40yahoogroups.com> for the No E-Mail option > where > you will still be able to read messages on the group and post replies. > > Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:aquaticlife-normal%40yahoogroups.com> to receive individual > e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 43321	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 9/11/2009
Subject: Re: Baby Hillstream Loaches! yay!

Yep "those were the days" ;) LOL. And yes, he does most of the cooking because I pay most of the bills, seems like a fair trade off to me ;) LOL. Amber Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > > > To me, this seems like a very good DIY pre-filter housing that could > also be > used in a H-tank for a sick fish to keep if from getting sucked onto an > intake screen... although an H-tank should not have such strong filtration > anyhow. > > And you could use the space between the plastic housing and the intake > screen for other filter media like a sponge or filter pad when you > have fry > in the tank. The plastic cover would stay in place above your normal > filter > intake so you could pop off the clear plastic holey part to add other > media > to the housing. If you use the Marineland intake screen (rectangular kind) > which would hold the lid of the plastic safety shield in place... > unless the > hole in the lid is drilled precisely enough to make it fit snuggly on the > intake tube above a normal filter intake screen. > > The BIG question though... why are these hubby's "little plastic > containers"? Does that mean you make him do all the cooking and storage of > left-over's? What ever happened to "A woman's place is in the > kitchen!".... > oh yeah... "Those were the days!" > http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0d8FTPv955I > <http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0d8FTPv955I> > comes to mind again. LOL > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right > side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On > Behalf Of Amber Berglund > Sent: Friday, September 11, 2009 10:34 AM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: Baby Hillstream Loaches! yay! > > Hey the hubby shouldn't mind if I use his little plastic containers, > right? > ;) LOL That's a good idea though, wonder how well it works. > > amber > > Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > > > > > > Follow-up... > > > > AHHHH... I knew if I looked around enough, I'd find someone who > > already came up with an idea similar to what I was thinking about and > > this one is even simpler than what I was thinking about. I just needed > > the right key words when searching Google Images. They're doing this > > for a powerhead but it would also work perfectly in your case and you > > probably have one of these plastic left-over food storage containers > > in your cupboard just waiting to be used on your fish tanks. ;-) > > > > http://www.cichlid-forum.com/articles/diy_powerhead_filter.php > <http://www.cichlid-forum.com/articles/diy_powerhead_filter.php> > > <http://www.cichlid-forum.com/articles/diy_powerhead_filter.php > <http://www.cichlid-forum.com/articles/diy_powerhead_filter.php>> > > > > In your case, just drill the 3/16" holes in the plastic housing and > > put this plastic shield over a Marineland type intake screen but DO > > NOT cover it with poly pad media... or you could put some filter floss > > or sponge inside the plastic housing when you have fry in the tank IF > > you see them getting stuck to the Marineland intake screen. > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>> > (Links to any articles referenced in > > above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels > > and also under Archives by Year, Month) > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On Behalf Of Amber Berglund > > Sent: Friday, September 11, 2009 10:02 AM > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: Baby Hillstream Loaches! yay! > > > > I use a mesh screen (that you normally use for windows I think but > > it's slightly larger than the window screen "squares" are). > > Obviously it's still small enough to catch almost anything that tries > > to go into the filter intakes though, so I have to clean them every > > few days, minimum. > > Too bad I can't use something that will keep out fry but won't hinder > > the filter in any way ;) LOL. > > I'm not sure if switching the intakes will help or not. They don't get > > stuck on my magnum 350 deluxe intake screen, nor do they get stuck to > > the powerhead for my fluidized bed filter. They only got stuck to the > > Eheim intake, the aquaclear intake, and the rena filstar intake. > > Apparently they're designed badly I would say ;) I didn't have the > > aquaclear covered as I didn't think it was a hazard, none of the > > snails had gone near it so far, but go figure, just when I think it's > > safe one decides to go eat lunch on it ;) I think the snail will be > > okay though, it was able to remove itself safely from the filter > > intake with no help from me after a couple of hours with the filter > > intake off of the filter, I moved it to the 55 gallon upstairs so it > > can heal in peace in case anything would have picked on it in the 125 > > gallon. > > Applesnail.net says that it's a very common behavior for snails to get > > sucked into filter intakes, perhaps you were just lucky with your > > filter intakes? Or maybe you fed the tank well enough so that it > > didn't go searching upwards for food ;) I also have a lot of MTS in > > the tank, perhaps I should start removing them on lettuce or > > something? They might be out competing the mystery snails for food. > > > > Amber > > > > Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > > > > > > > > > Congrats on the babies. > > > > > > I'm not sure what's up with your snails. I never saw this behavior > > > with mine. You might want to modify your filter intake screens with > > > one of rectangular shaped Marineland filter intake screens. I know you > > > have the long slotted intake screens on your Rena Filstar intakes and > > > they could be modified to these Marineland intake screens. Many people > > > also change out the AquaClear intake screens to the Marineland intake > > screens. > > > > > > > > > http://www.bigalsonline.com/BigAlsUS/ctl3684/cp18665/si1379768/cl0/mar > <http://www.bigalsonline.com/BigAlsUS/ctl3684/cp18665/si1379768/cl0/mar> > > > <http://www.bigalsonline.com/BigAlsUS/ctl3684/cp18665/si1379768/cl0/mar > <http://www.bigalsonline.com/BigAlsUS/ctl3684/cp18665/si1379768/cl0/mar>> > > > inelan > > > > > > <http://www.bigalsonline.com/BigAlsUS/ctl3684/cp18665/si1379768/cl0/ma > <http://www.bigalsonline.com/BigAlsUS/ctl3684/cp18665/si1379768/cl0/ma> > > > <http://www.bigalsonline.com/BigAlsUS/ctl3684/cp18665/si1379768/cl0/ma > <http://www.bigalsonline.com/BigAlsUS/ctl3684/cp18665/si1379768/cl0/ma>> > > > rinelan> > > > declipseintakestrainer > > > > > > https://www.marineland.com/store/1-Strainer-P215C0.aspx > <https://www.marineland.com/store/1-Strainer-P215C0.aspx> > > <https://www.marineland.com/store/1-Strainer-P215C0.aspx > <https://www.marineland.com/store/1-Strainer-P215C0.aspx>> > > > <https://www.marineland.com/store/1-Strainer-P215C0.aspx > <https://www.marineland.com/store/1-Strainer-P215C0.aspx> > > <https://www.marineland.com/store/1-Strainer-P215C0.aspx > <https://www.marineland.com/store/1-Strainer-P215C0.aspx>>> > > > > > > http://thegab.org/Articles/FilterProfileAquaClear20.html > <http://thegab.org/Articles/FilterProfileAquaClear20.html> > > <http://thegab.org/Articles/FilterProfileAquaClear20.html > <http://thegab.org/Articles/FilterProfileAquaClear20.html>> > > > <http://thegab.org/Articles/FilterProfileAquaClear20.html > <http://thegab.org/Articles/FilterProfileAquaClear20.html> > > <http://thegab.org/Articles/FilterProfileAquaClear20.html > <http://thegab.org/Articles/FilterProfileAquaClear20.html>>> (This > > > article shows how they changed out the intake screen on their AC's to > > > the Marineland intake screen) > > > > > > At least with these larger screens, when the snails get on them, there > > > should still be plenty of openings where the snail is not at so that > > > the snail won't get sucked into the slots. Also, the slots are much > > > smaller and not pointy like the AC's or Rena Filstar intakes. > > > > > > I imagine the snails are drawn to the intake screens to eat any plant > > > leaves that get sucked to the intake screen since they are known to > > > like decaying plant matter. > > > > > > Hopefully, with the larger intake screens, they could happily munch > > > away without there being too much suction to suck them into the slots. > > > > > > Your other option would be to put some kind of a larger screen over > > > the intake screens... something that would allow detritus to get > > > sucked into the filter without allowing the snails to get directly to > > > the intake screen. I have some thoughts going through my head for this > > > DIY project for you but I'll have to look around the net for suitable > > > products. > > > > > > I know you could use (and probably do use) the round foam prefilters > > > on the intakes, which would also keep fry from getting sucked into the > > > filters but these seem to defeat the purpose of having larger filter > > > systems since the prefilters catch everything instead of allowing it > > > to go into the filter to be caught by the filter media. Here's an > > > add-on foam pre-filter but this isn't what I'm talking about for my > > > thoughts about a larger screen pre-filter. > > > http://www.americanaquariumproducts.com/PreFilter.html > <http://www.americanaquariumproducts.com/PreFilter.html> > > <http://www.americanaquariumproducts.com/PreFilter.html > <http://www.americanaquariumproducts.com/PreFilter.html>> > > > <http://www.americanaquariumproducts.com/PreFilter.html > <http://www.americanaquariumproducts.com/PreFilter.html> > > <http://www.americanaquariumproducts.com/PreFilter.html > <http://www.americanaquariumproducts.com/PreFilter.html>>> > > > > > > My thoughts are for something to stop the snails from getting to the > > > smaller slots of the normal intake screen but mine would not stop fry > > > or other detritus from getting sucked in... just more of a safety > > > screen for your snails. > > > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>> > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>>> > > (Links to any articles referenced in > > > above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels > > > and also under Archives by Year, Month) > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On Behalf Of Amber Berglund > > > Sent: Thursday, September 10, 2009 10:44 PM > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Baby Hillstream Loaches! yay! > > > > > > If anyone would like to see a picture of the baby loaches here is a > > > link > > > below: > > > http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2551/3907954955_7221c6c104_o.jpg > <http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2551/3907954955_7221c6c104_o.jpg> > > <http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2551/3907954955_7221c6c104_o.jpg > <http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2551/3907954955_7221c6c104_o.jpg>> > > > <http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2551/3907954955_7221c6c104_o.jpg > <http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2551/3907954955_7221c6c104_o.jpg> > > <http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2551/3907954955_7221c6c104_o.jpg > <http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2551/3907954955_7221c6c104_o.jpg>>> > > > cute little guys, I've seen at least 2 out at a time, not sure how > > > many I have in there, hard to tell with how over grown the plants have > > > gotten lately ;) LOL. > > > > > > Amber > > > > > > Amber Berglund wrote: > > > > Lol, so for once I actually have good news instead of bad news with > > > > my fish ;) I actually managed to end up with some baby hillstream > > > > loaches. I saw one swimming around on the bottom of the tank looking > > > > for food, I thought it was a baby guppy until I looked closely. It's > > > > only about a quarter of an inch long including it's tiny little fins > > > > (they don't have very long tail fins though). I'm glad I ended up > > > > with babies, i got discouraged a bit when I saw that one of them had > > > > died last week (with my 2 ram's) after I unplugged the UV filter :( > > > > I still have at least 4 adults from what I could see (one might be > > > > hiding), there should be 5 of them left plus the babies now though. > > > > Oh and my poor snail must've not pulled through, I'm not sure if > > > > putting him in a bowl was a good thing or not, or perhaps it was > > > > just too late (didn't get air fast enough after his lung filled with > > > > water). I had to throw the poor guy away when I got home from work > > > today. > > > > And I also had another snail/filter intake incident, thought it had > > > > small enough slots and apparently the snail stayed for a snack long > > > > enough to get his/her face sucked into the filter *sigh* it's still > > > > moving and I'm waiting for it to remove itself from the filter on > > > > it's own, sometimes it takes a few hours since they swell up due to > > > > loss of blood flow in their bodies. poor thing :( > > > > > > > > Amber > > > > > > ------------------------------------ > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. > ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> > PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to > the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the > SUBJECT > LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- > <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. > > If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of unsubscribing, you > can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the > home page. > > Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:aquaticlife-digest%40yahoogroups.com> to receive the digest, which > includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email > > Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:aquaticlife-nomail%40yahoogroups.com> for the No E-Mail option > where > you will still be able to read messages on the group and post replies. > > Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:aquaticlife-normal%40yahoogroups.com> to receive individual > e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 43322	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 9/11/2009
Subject: Re: Fishless Cycle.

And I see that your Nitrite is spiking now and your Nitrate is climbing... looks like you're on your way now! Your pH will fluctuate BUT the main thing is your KH level. I would do another series of 25% PWC's, redosing the ammonia, as needed after each one. It's the KH level, which if it gets too low, will cause the pH crash and subsequent Cycling crash since the bacteria need carbonates to live... as do most living things, probably all things but I don't want to stretch my scientific knowledge to make that statement. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of fishdudeut Sent: Friday, September 11, 2009 10:00 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Fishless Cycle. After my 25% PCW for 3 days I did get the KH back up to 3 and the PH back to 7.4. 9/09 0 Ammonia 5 Nitrite 10+ Nitrate PH 7.4 KH 3 GH 12 9/10 0 Ammonia 5+ Nitrite 40 Nitrate PH 7.4 KH 2 GH 12 9/11 0 Ammonia 5- Nitrite 40/80 Nitrate PH 7.2 KH 2 GH 12 I have been check twice a day and I see my PH and GH starting to drop my Nitrite is also starting to drop (like it should) but my Nitrate going up like it should. With the PH and KH starting to drop should I do another water change or just keep an eye on it to make sure it doesn't crash again? I've started half dosing ammonia like all the guides tell you to do when your nitrite spikes. --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@...> wrote: > > Do a 25% PWC each day for the next few days. You don't want to overly > shock your nitrifying bacteria colonies. That will raise both the pH > and KH and get your cycling going again. > > This is why I asked about the KH level a while back. I figured that > was what happened due to the overdosing of so much ammonia early on. > Once you do the series of PWC's, after each one, test your ammonia and > dose as needed to bring it up to 4-5ppm, then dose your ammonia as > needed after that and you should see your cycling start to take off. > Check your KH every few days but you should be OK once you do these three PWC's. > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles > referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically > under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) > > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] > On Behalf Of fishdudeut > Sent: Sunday, September 06, 2009 5:35 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Fishless Cycle. > > Well I think I found Te problem. I did a full set of test today and > > Ammonia 0 - Nitrite 0+ - Nitrate 10 - PH 6.0 - KH 1.0 + GH 15. > > I have never and that low of PH before and yes I test with both test kits. > > I test my tap water KH and it was 6. I also have a 55 gallon drum I > have for water and tested it and it was 6 as well. It's been there > for about 2 weeks. Tank water is 1 maybe 2. It was very faint in the colors. > > Should I do a large water change or what? The PH is freakish low as well. > The PH of tap water is 7.6. ------------------------------------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the home page. Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com to receive the digest, which includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com for the No E-Mail option where you will still be able to read messages on the group and post replies. Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com to receive individual e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 43323	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 9/11/2009
Subject: Re: Baby Hillstream Loaches! yay!

OK... sounds fair then. LOL Any other sugar-momma's up there? LOL Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Amber Berglund Sent: Friday, September 11, 2009 11:35 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: Baby Hillstream Loaches! yay! Yep "those were the days" ;) LOL. And yes, he does most of the cooking because I pay most of the bills, seems like a fair trade off to me ;) LOL. Amber Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > > > To me, this seems like a very good DIY pre-filter housing that could > also be used in a H-tank for a sick fish to keep if from getting > sucked onto an intake screen... although an H-tank should not have > such strong filtration anyhow. > > And you could use the space between the plastic housing and the intake > screen for other filter media like a sponge or filter pad when you > have fry in the tank. The plastic cover would stay in place above your > normal filter intake so you could pop off the clear plastic holey part > to add other media to the housing. If you use the Marineland intake > screen (rectangular kind) which would hold the lid of the plastic > safety shield in place... > unless the > hole in the lid is drilled precisely enough to make it fit snuggly on > the intake tube above a normal filter intake screen. > > The BIG question though... why are these hubby's "little plastic > containers"? Does that mean you make him do all the cooking and > storage of left-over's? What ever happened to "A woman's place is in > the kitchen!".... > oh yeah... "Those were the days!" > http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0d8FTPv955I > <http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0d8FTPv955I> > comes to mind again. LOL > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> (Links to any articles referenced in > above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels > and also under Archives by Year, Month) > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On Behalf Of Amber Berglund > Sent: Friday, September 11, 2009 10:34 AM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: Baby Hillstream Loaches! yay! > > Hey the hubby shouldn't mind if I use his little plastic containers, > right? > ;) LOL That's a good idea though, wonder how well it works. > > amber > > Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > > > > > > Follow-up... > > > > AHHHH... I knew if I looked around enough, I'd find someone who > > already came up with an idea similar to what I was thinking about > > and this one is even simpler than what I was thinking about. I just > > needed the right key words when searching Google Images. They're > > doing this for a powerhead but it would also work perfectly in your > > case and you probably have one of these plastic left-over food > > storage containers in your cupboard just waiting to be used on your > > fish tanks. ;-) > > > > http://www.cichlid-forum.com/articles/diy_powerhead_filter.php > <http://www.cichlid-forum.com/articles/diy_powerhead_filter.php> > > <http://www.cichlid-forum.com/articles/diy_powerhead_filter.php > <http://www.cichlid-forum.com/articles/diy_powerhead_filter.php>> > > > > In your case, just drill the 3/16" holes in the plastic housing and > > put this plastic shield over a Marineland type intake screen but DO > > NOT cover it with poly pad media... or you could put some filter > > floss or sponge inside the plastic housing when you have fry in the > > tank IF you see them getting stuck to the Marineland intake screen. > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>> > (Links to any articles referenced in > > above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under > > Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On Behalf Of Amber Berglund > > Sent: Friday, September 11, 2009 10:02 AM > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: Baby Hillstream Loaches! yay! > > > > I use a mesh screen (that you normally use for windows I think but > > it's slightly larger than the window screen "squares" are). > > Obviously it's still small enough to catch almost anything that > > tries to go into the filter intakes though, so I have to clean them > > every few days, minimum. > > Too bad I can't use something that will keep out fry but won't > > hinder the filter in any way ;) LOL. > > I'm not sure if switching the intakes will help or not. They don't > > get stuck on my magnum 350 deluxe intake screen, nor do they get > > stuck to the powerhead for my fluidized bed filter. They only got > > stuck to the Eheim intake, the aquaclear intake, and the rena filstar intake. > > Apparently they're designed badly I would say ;) I didn't have the > > aquaclear covered as I didn't think it was a hazard, none of the > > snails had gone near it so far, but go figure, just when I think > > it's safe one decides to go eat lunch on it ;) I think the snail > > will be okay though, it was able to remove itself safely from the > > filter intake with no help from me after a couple of hours with the > > filter intake off of the filter, I moved it to the 55 gallon > > upstairs so it can heal in peace in case anything would have picked > > on it in the 125 gallon. > > Applesnail.net says that it's a very common behavior for snails to > > get sucked into filter intakes, perhaps you were just lucky with > > your filter intakes? Or maybe you fed the tank well enough so that > > it didn't go searching upwards for food ;) I also have a lot of MTS > > in the tank, perhaps I should start removing them on lettuce or > > something? They might be out competing the mystery snails for food. > > > > Amber > > > > Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > > > > > > > > > Congrats on the babies. > > > > > > I'm not sure what's up with your snails. I never saw this behavior > > > with mine. You might want to modify your filter intake screens > > > with one of rectangular shaped Marineland filter intake screens. I > > > know you have the long slotted intake screens on your Rena Filstar > > > intakes and they could be modified to these Marineland intake > > > screens. Many people also change out the AquaClear intake screens > > > to the Marineland intake > > screens. > > > > > > > > > http://www.bigalsonline.com/BigAlsUS/ctl3684/cp18665/si1379768/cl0/mar > <http://www.bigalsonline.com/BigAlsUS/ctl3684/cp18665/si1379768/cl0/ma > r> > > > <http://www.bigalsonline.com/BigAlsUS/ctl3684/cp18665/si1379768/cl0/ma > r > <http://www.bigalsonline.com/BigAlsUS/ctl3684/cp18665/si1379768/cl0/ma > r>> > > > inelan > > > > > > <http://www.bigalsonline.com/BigAlsUS/ctl3684/cp18665/si1379768/cl0/ma > <http://www.bigalsonline.com/BigAlsUS/ctl3684/cp18665/si1379768/cl0/ma > > > > > <http://www.bigalsonline.com/BigAlsUS/ctl3684/cp18665/si1379768/cl0/ma > <http://www.bigalsonline.com/BigAlsUS/ctl3684/cp18665/si1379768/cl0/ma > >> > > > rinelan> > > > declipseintakestrainer > > > > > > https://www.marineland.com/store/1-Strainer-P215C0.aspx > <https://www.marineland.com/store/1-Strainer-P215C0.aspx> > > <https://www.marineland.com/store/1-Strainer-P215C0.aspx > <https://www.marineland.com/store/1-Strainer-P215C0.aspx>> > > > <https://www.marineland.com/store/1-Strainer-P215C0.aspx > <https://www.marineland.com/store/1-Strainer-P215C0.aspx> > > <https://www.marineland.com/store/1-Strainer-P215C0.aspx > <https://www.marineland.com/store/1-Strainer-P215C0.aspx>>> > > > > > > http://thegab.org/Articles/FilterProfileAquaClear20.html > <http://thegab.org/Articles/FilterProfileAquaClear20.html> > > <http://thegab.org/Articles/FilterProfileAquaClear20.html > <http://thegab.org/Articles/FilterProfileAquaClear20.html>> > > > <http://thegab.org/Articles/FilterProfileAquaClear20.html > <http://thegab.org/Articles/FilterProfileAquaClear20.html> > > <http://thegab.org/Articles/FilterProfileAquaClear20.html > <http://thegab.org/Articles/FilterProfileAquaClear20.html>>> (This > > > article shows how they changed out the intake screen on their AC's > > > to the Marineland intake screen) > > > > > > At least with these larger screens, when the snails get on them, > > > there should still be plenty of openings where the snail is not at > > > so that the snail won't get sucked into the slots. Also, the slots > > > are much smaller and not pointy like the AC's or Rena Filstar intakes. > > > > > > I imagine the snails are drawn to the intake screens to eat any > > > plant leaves that get sucked to the intake screen since they are > > > known to like decaying plant matter. > > > > > > Hopefully, with the larger intake screens, they could happily > > > munch away without there being too much suction to suck them into the slots. > > > > > > Your other option would be to put some kind of a larger screen > > > over the intake screens... something that would allow detritus to > > > get sucked into the filter without allowing the snails to get > > > directly to the intake screen. I have some thoughts going through > > > my head for this DIY project for you but I'll have to look around > > > the net for suitable products. > > > > > > I know you could use (and probably do use) the round foam > > > prefilters on the intakes, which would also keep fry from getting > > > sucked into the filters but these seem to defeat the purpose of > > > having larger filter systems since the prefilters catch everything > > > instead of allowing it to go into the filter to be caught by the > > > filter media. Here's an add-on foam pre-filter but this isn't what > > > I'm talking about for my thoughts about a larger screen pre-filter. > > > http://www.americanaquariumproducts.com/PreFilter.html > <http://www.americanaquariumproducts.com/PreFilter.html> > > <http://www.americanaquariumproducts.com/PreFilter.html > <http://www.americanaquariumproducts.com/PreFilter.html>> > > > <http://www.americanaquariumproducts.com/PreFilter.html > <http://www.americanaquariumproducts.com/PreFilter.html> > > <http://www.americanaquariumproducts.com/PreFilter.html > <http://www.americanaquariumproducts.com/PreFilter.html>>> > > > > > > My thoughts are for something to stop the snails from getting to > > > the smaller slots of the normal intake screen but mine would not > > > stop fry or other detritus from getting sucked in... just more of > > > a safety screen for your snails. > > > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>> > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>>> > > (Links to any articles referenced in > > > above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under > > > Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On Behalf Of Amber > > > Berglund > > > Sent: Thursday, September 10, 2009 10:44 PM > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Baby Hillstream Loaches! yay! > > > > > > If anyone would like to see a picture of the baby loaches here is > > > a link > > > below: > > > http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2551/3907954955_7221c6c104_o.jpg > <http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2551/3907954955_7221c6c104_o.jpg> > > <http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2551/3907954955_7221c6c104_o.jpg > <http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2551/3907954955_7221c6c104_o.jpg>> > > > <http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2551/3907954955_7221c6c104_o.jpg > <http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2551/3907954955_7221c6c104_o.jpg> > > <http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2551/3907954955_7221c6c104_o.jpg > <http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2551/3907954955_7221c6c104_o.jpg>>> > > > cute little guys, I've seen at least 2 out at a time, not sure how > > > many I have in there, hard to tell with how over grown the plants > > > have gotten lately ;) LOL. > > > > > > Amber > > > > > > Amber Berglund wrote: > > > > Lol, so for once I actually have good news instead of bad news > > > > with my fish ;) I actually managed to end up with some baby > > > > hillstream loaches. I saw one swimming around on the bottom of > > > > the tank looking for food, I thought it was a baby guppy until I > > > > looked closely. It's only about a quarter of an inch long > > > > including it's tiny little fins (they don't have very long tail > > > > fins though). I'm glad I ended up with babies, i got discouraged > > > > a bit when I saw that one of them had died last week (with my 2 > > > > ram's) after I unplugged the UV filter :( I still have at least > > > > 4 adults from what I could see (one might be hiding), there should be 5 of them left plus the babies now though. > > > > Oh and my poor snail must've not pulled through, I'm not sure if > > > > putting him in a bowl was a good thing or not, or perhaps it was > > > > just too late (didn't get air fast enough after his lung filled > > > > with water). I had to throw the poor guy away when I got home > > > > from work > > > today. > > > > And I also had another snail/filter intake incident, thought it > > > > had small enough slots and apparently the snail stayed for a > > > > snack long enough to get his/her face sucked into the filter > > > > *sigh* it's still moving and I'm waiting for it to remove itself > > > > from the filter on it's own, sometimes it takes a few hours > > > > since they swell up due to loss of blood flow in their bodies. > > > > poor thing :( > > > > > > > > Amber > > > > > > ------------------------------------ > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. > ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , > .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT > that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the > original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: > old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , > .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. > > If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of unsubscribing, > you can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My > Membership" on the home page. > > Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:aquaticlife-digest%40yahoogroups.com> to receive the digest, > which includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email > > Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:aquaticlife-nomail%40yahoogroups.com> for the No E-Mail option > where you will still be able to read messages on the group and post > replies. > > Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:aquaticlife-normal%40yahoogroups.com> to receive individual > e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links > > ------------------------------------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the home page. Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com to receive the digest, which includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com for the No E-Mail option where you will still be able to read messages on the group and post replies. Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com to receive individual e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 43324	From: bill 1433	Date: 9/11/2009
Subject: Re: Baby Hillstream Loaches! yay!

Len, Don't lose that humor! But if she has something that will work better than foam to protect those fry, maybe some pictures? I's like to see it? Bill --- On Fri, 9/11/09, Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@...> wrote: > From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@...> > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: Baby Hillstream Loaches! yay! > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Date: Friday, September 11, 2009, 12:05 PM > The only problem with using foam over > the intake, which, I admit, is the > only thing that would work for both fry and snail > protection, is that the > foam also catches all of the detritus so the detritus > doesn't make it into > the filter... kind of defeating the purpose of why we have > filters with lots > of advanced filter media to catch every thing.  Of > course, the foam would > serve as a good feeding area for the snails and fry so > there's nothing wrong > with it.. I was just trying to find a good snail safety > shield and the fry > would have to figure out on their own to NOT go past that > shield... maybe > little signs "No Fry Zone" would work.  ;-) > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed > on the right > side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives > by Year, Month) > > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] > On > Behalf Of bill 1433 > Sent: Friday, September 11, 2009 10:36 AM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: Baby Hillstream Loaches! > yay! > > OR..............simply wrap the entire intake in foam to > protect them.  Use > some rubber bands to hold the thing in place. > > Bill > > --- On Fri, 9/11/09, Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@...> > wrote: > > > From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@...> > > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: Baby Hillstream > Loaches! yay! > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > Date: Friday, September 11, 2009, 11:31 AM > Follow-up... > > > > AHHHH... I knew if I looked around enough, I'd find > someone who > > already came up with an idea similar to what I was > thinking about and > > this one is even simpler than what I was thinking > about.  I just > > needed the right key words when searching Google > Images.  They're > > doing this for a powerhead but it would also work > perfectly in your > > case and you probably have one of these plastic > left-over food storage > > containers in your cupboard just waiting to be used on > your fish > > tanks. ;-) > > > > http://www.cichlid-forum.com/articles/diy_powerhead_filter.php > > > > In your case, just drill the 3/16" holes in the > plastic housing and > > put this plastic shield over a Marineland type intake > screen but DO > > NOT cover it with poly pad media... or you could put > some filter floss > > or sponge inside the plastic housing when you have fry > in the tank IF > > you see them getting stuck to the Marineland intake > screen. > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to > any articles > > referenced in above reply are listed on the right > side, alphabetically > > under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] > > On > > Behalf Of Amber Berglund > > Sent: Friday, September 11, 2009 10:02 AM > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: Baby Hillstream > Loaches! > > yay! > > > > I use a mesh screen (that you normally use for windows > I > > think but it's > > slightly larger than the window screen "squares" > are). > > Obviously it's still small enough to catch almost > anything > > that tries to go > > into the filter intakes though, so I have to clean > them > > every few days, > > minimum. > > Too bad I can't use something that will keep out fry > but > > won't hinder the > > filter in any way ;) LOL. > > I'm not sure if switching the intakes will help or > not. > > They don't get stuck > > on my magnum 350 deluxe intake screen, nor do they > get > > stuck to the > > powerhead for my fluidized bed filter. They only got > stuck > > to the Eheim > > intake, the aquaclear intake, and the rena filstar > intake. > > > > Apparently they're designed badly I would say ;) I > didn't > > have the aquaclear > > covered as I didn't think it was a hazard, none of > the > > snails had gone near > > it so far, but go figure, just when I think it's safe > one > > decides to go eat > > lunch on it ;) I think the snail will be okay though, > it > > was able to remove > > itself safely from the filter intake with no help from > me > > after a couple of > > hours with the filter intake off of the filter, I > moved it > > to the 55 gallon > > upstairs so it can heal in peace in case anything > would > > have picked on it in > > the 125 gallon. > > Applesnail.net says that it's a very common behavior > for > > snails to get > > sucked into filter intakes, perhaps you were just > lucky > > with your filter > > intakes? Or maybe you fed the tank well enough so that > it > > didn't go > > searching upwards for food ;) I also have a lot of MTS > in > > the tank, perhaps > > I should start removing them on lettuce or something? > They > > might be out > > competing the mystery snails for food. > > > > Amber > > > > Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > > >  > > > > > > Congrats on the babies. > > > > > > I'm not sure what's up with your snails. I never > saw > > this behavior > > > with mine. You might want to modify your filter > intake > > screens with > > > one of rectangular shaped Marineland filter > intake > > screens. I know you > > > have the long slotted intake screens on your > Rena > > Filstar intakes and > > > they could be modified to these Marineland > intake > > screens. Many people > > > also change out the AquaClear intake screens to > the > > Marineland intake > > screens. > > > > > > http://www.bigalsonline.com/BigAlsUS/ctl3684/cp18665/si1379768/cl0/mar > > > inelan > > > <http://www.bigalsonline.com/BigAlsUS/ctl3684/cp18665/si1379768/cl0/ma > > > rinelan> > > > declipseintakestrainer > > > > > > https://www.marineland.com/store/1-Strainer-P215C0.aspx > > > <https://www.marineland.com/store/1-Strainer-P215C0.aspx> > > > > > > http://thegab.org/Articles/FilterProfileAquaClear20.html > > > <http://thegab.org/Articles/FilterProfileAquaClear20.html> > > (This > > > article shows how they changed out the intake > screen > > on their AC's to > > > the Marineland intake screen) > > > > > > At least with these larger screens, when the > snails > > get on them, there > > > should still be plenty of openings where the > snail is > > not at so that > > > the snail won't get sucked into the slots. Also, > the > > slots are much > > > smaller and not pointy like the AC's or Rena > Filstar > > intakes. > > > > > > I imagine the snails are drawn to the intake > screens > > to eat any plant > > > leaves that get sucked to the intake screen since > they > > are known to > > > like decaying plant matter. > > > > > > Hopefully, with the larger intake screens, they > could > > happily munch > > > away without there being too much suction to suck > them > > into the slots. > > > > > > Your other option would be to put some kind of a > > larger screen over > > > the intake screens... something that would allow > > detritus to get > > > sucked into the filter without allowing the > snails to > > get directly to > > > the intake screen. I have some thoughts going > through > > my head for this > > > DIY project for you but I'll have to look around > the > > net for suitable > > > products. > > > > > > I know you could use (and probably do use) the > round > > foam prefilters > > > on the intakes, which would also keep fry from > getting > > sucked into the > > > filters but these seem to defeat the purpose of > having > > larger filter > > > systems since the prefilters catch everything > instead > > of allowing it > > > to go into the filter to be caught by the filter > > media. Here's an > > > add-on foam pre-filter but this isn't what I'm > talking > > about for my > > > thoughts about a larger screen pre-filter. > > > http://www.americanaquariumproducts.com/PreFilter.html > > > <http://www.americanaquariumproducts.com/PreFilter.html> > > > > > > My thoughts are for something to stop the snails > from > > getting to the > > > smaller slots of the normal intake screen but > mine > > would not stop fry > > > or other detritus from getting sucked in... just > more > > of a safety > > > screen for your snails. > > > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> (Links > > to any articles referenced in > > > above reply are listed on the right side, > > alphabetically under Labels > > > and also under Archives by Year, Month) > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On > > Behalf Of Amber Berglund > > > Sent: Thursday, September 10, 2009 10:44 PM > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Baby Hillstream > Loaches! > > yay! > > > > > > If anyone would like to see a picture of the > baby > > loaches here is a > > > link > > > below: > > > http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2551/3907954955_7221c6c104_o.jpg > > > <http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2551/3907954955_7221c6c104_o.jpg> > > > cute little guys, I've seen at least 2 out at a > time, > > not sure how > > > many I have in there, hard to tell with how over > grown > > the plants have > > > gotten lately ;) LOL. > > > > > > Amber > > > > > > Amber Berglund wrote: > > > > Lol, so for once I actually have good news > > instead of bad news with > > > > my fish ;) I actually managed to end up with > some > > baby hillstream > > > > loaches. I saw one swimming around on the > bottom > > of the tank looking > > > > for food, I thought it was a baby guppy > until I > > looked closely. It's > > > > only about a quarter of an inch long > including > > it's tiny little fins > > > > (they don't have very long tail fins > though). I'm > > glad I ended up > > > > with babies, i got discouraged a bit when I > saw > > that one of them had > > > > died last week (with my 2 ram's) after I > > unplugged the UV filter :( > > > > I still have at least 4 adults from what I > could > > see (one might be > > > > hiding), there should be 5 of them left plus > the > > babies now though. > > > > Oh and my poor snail must've not pulled > through, > > I'm not sure if > > > > putting him in a bowl was a good thing or > not, or > > perhaps it was > > > > just too late (didn't get air fast enough > after > > his lung filled with > > > > water). I had to throw the poor guy away > when I > > got home from work > > > today. > > > > And I also had another snail/filter intake > > incident, thought it had > > > > small enough slots and apparently the snail > > stayed for a snack long > > > > enough to get his/her face sucked into the > filter > > *sigh* it's still > > > > moving and I'm waiting for it to remove > itself > > from the filter on > > > > it's own, sometimes it takes a few hours > since > > they swell up due to > > > > loss of blood flow in their bodies. poor > thing > > :( > > > > > > > > Amber > > > > ------------------------------------ > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when > replying, Thank You. > ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> > ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> > PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is > NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of > the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new > subject (was re: old subject)" <- > <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. > , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. > > If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of > unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by > clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the home page.  > > Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com > to receive the digest, which includes up to 25 posts at a > time in a single email > > Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com > for the No E-Mail option where you will still be able to > read messages on the group and post replies. > > Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com > to receive individual e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links > > >     mailto:AquaticLife-fullfeatured@yahoogroups.com > > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 43325	From: Cee Jaye	Date: 9/11/2009
Subject: My Oscar again:}

Hello Everyone! I wanted to let you all know that I finally moved my Oscar . . . (funny I never gave "him" a name!:) into his tank last nite!! Around 6pm He seems to be doing well. I thought maybet he transition in the evening would be better so he'd have the nite where it would be mostly quiet & dark. He's not really moping & is swimming around;) Dumb me I forgot the top to the tank so I have to put a sterlite container across the top (one of those long sweater box things) which he doesn't care for! :} He keeps looking at it like what is that??? The turtles got moved back into their home too & seem to be "happy" enough;) They ate this afternoon readily, so I guess they aren't too disturbed;) The one I have had for 2 & 1/2 yrs now - I got her the summer before I got my Oscar. I want to thank all of you that gave me help through this!!! I hope that he will do well & I will watch him & change his water. Someone mentioned he can have earthworms? I know of that . . But from the yard? Or do I buy them at a store? I think I could dig up several earthworms now, but in a few wks they'd be gone. . . But I could get some into a container for him! Does anyone raise worms? What do ya do to them? (care-wise) Thank you all again! I am going to send in another question:) LOL Tara & fish, turtles, kids;) LOL [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 43326	From: bill 1433	Date: 9/11/2009
Subject: Re: My Oscar again:}

On the worms? Small ones and put into a small container with clean water for a day or so to purge the dirt inside of them. Sorry I can't tell you more on the size of the worms because that's all up to the size of his mouth! Really, you know what he eats and how much so you are the best judge as to size and how much. Bill --- On Fri, 9/11/09, Cee Jaye <CeeJayee@...> wrote: > From: Cee Jaye <CeeJayee@...> > Subject: [AquaticLife] My Oscar again:} > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Date: Friday, September 11, 2009, 12:42 PM > Hello Everyone! I wanted to let you > all know that I finally moved my Oscar . > . . (funny I never gave "him" a name!:) into his tank last > nite!! Around 6pm > He seems to be doing well.  I thought maybet he > transition in the evening > would be better so he'd have the nite where it would be > mostly quiet & dark. > > He's not really moping & is swimming around;) > > Dumb me I forgot the top to the tank so I have to put a > sterlite container > across the top (one of those long sweater box things) which > he doesn't care > for! :} He keeps looking at it like what is that??? > > The turtles got moved back into their home too & seem > to be "happy" enough;) > They ate this afternoon readily, so I guess they aren't too > disturbed;) The > one I have had for 2 & 1/2 yrs now - I got her the > summer before I got my > Oscar. > > I want to thank all of you that gave me help through > this!!! I hope that he > will do well & I will watch him & change his > water. > > Someone mentioned he can have earthworms? I know of that . > . But from the > yard? Or do I buy them at a store? I think I could dig up > several earthworms > now, but in a few wks they'd be gone. . . But I could get > some into a > container for him! Does anyone raise worms? What do ya do > to them? > (care-wise) > > Thank you all again! I am going to send in another > question:) LOL > Tara & fish, turtles, kids;) LOL > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > ------------------------------------ > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when > replying, Thank You. > ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> > ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> > PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is > NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of > the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new > subject (was re: old subject)" <- > <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. > , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. > > If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of > unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by > clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the home page.  > > Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com > to receive the digest, which includes up to 25 posts at a > time in a single email > > Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com > for the No E-Mail option where you will still be able to > read messages on the group and post replies. > > Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com > to receive individual e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links > > >     mailto:AquaticLife-fullfeatured@yahoogroups.com > > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 43327	From: Cee Jaye	Date: 9/11/2009
Subject: Regarding new tank (when the time comes) for Oscar

Ok. I want to be sure that I will be prepared. . Because sometimes the opportunity for the new tank just arises. . . So. When the new tank comes - first off I will take advice & get the biggest I can, although I'll take any bigger tank in the interim to give him more room When the new tank comes, what should be done to be sure that it will be adequately set up for him? Do people here use bottled water? I used to do that & use a bit of salt. . . With using the water in the home, what things do I need to watch for? (Like I am not sure about the "shock" treatment they used either, except for what Lenny posted, and I am guessing that should the time come they do that again I will need to be very careful. I could use bottled water at that time, maybe? I did have the full master kit for testing at my husbands (the pH & nitrate, etc testing) because even though I didn't really do it with my Oscar, I did have bettas that I tested the water before adding them etc. When I first put the fish in, I generally test the waters. I asked him about it & he didn't know so I am going to have to have him look. Ok I have to go to town, so I will be back in a bit;) Better go by & get his lid;) LOL!! Thank you all again!! :) Tara & all [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 43328	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 9/11/2009
Subject: Re: My Oscar again:}

Here's a DIY worm growing system for growing your own... but not Earthworms as they are harder to grow indoors or keep from crawling out of their box. Read down to the section on Red Worms. http://www.thekrib.com/Food/worms.html As you will see, this is an old forum thread from the 90's so you will have to check on sources for the red worms since I'm sure the info in this thread is no longer adequate. By growing/raising your own food, you also have the opportunity to make sure they are healthy and even gut-load them with vitamins/nutrients for added nutritional value to the fish. On a side note, just about anything you read on TheKrib's website, http://www.TheKrib.com, or on Badman's website, http://www.BadmansTropicalFish.com, will be VERY good information, although dated in some cases. These websites were some of the first on the internet about fish keeping and some really smart fish keepers populated their forums or rather bulletin board services (BBS) which is what forums/groups were called in the "old days" of computers and the internet. Another good website is The Skeptical Aquarist, http://www.skepticalaquarist.com/index.shtml.. and of course, my own blog but much of what I've learned has been from my own experiences and what I've learned on these other sites and forums like this one. I mainly do articles on my blog that I do not see on other sites or when I may not like something included in another site... and depending on how much time I have to spare for writing articles. As far as your turtles, you will also want to know your water parameters for them. If your new well water is a low pH and soft water, you will have to supplement their diet and/or add something like crushed coral or Cuttlebone to the filter to increase the KH and pH of the tank or their shells will suffer. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Cee Jaye Sent: Friday, September 11, 2009 11:43 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] My Oscar again:} Hello Everyone! I wanted to let you all know that I finally moved my Oscar . . . (funny I never gave "him" a name!:) into his tank last nite!! Around 6pm He seems to be doing well. I thought maybet he transition in the evening would be better so he'd have the nite where it would be mostly quiet & dark. He's not really moping & is swimming around;) Dumb me I forgot the top to the tank so I have to put a sterlite container across the top (one of those long sweater box things) which he doesn't care for! :} He keeps looking at it like what is that??? The turtles got moved back into their home too & seem to be "happy" enough;) They ate this afternoon readily, so I guess they aren't too disturbed;) The one I have had for 2 & 1/2 yrs now - I got her the summer before I got my Oscar. I want to thank all of you that gave me help through this!!! I hope that he will do well & I will watch him & change his water. Someone mentioned he can have earthworms? I know of that . . But from the yard? Or do I buy them at a store? I think I could dig up several earthworms now, but in a few wks they'd be gone. . . But I could get some into a container for him! Does anyone raise worms? What do ya do to them? (care-wise) Thank you all again! I am going to send in another question:) LOL Tara & fish, turtles, kids;) LOL

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 43329	From: Cee Jaye	Date: 9/11/2009
Subject: Re: My Oscar again:}

Thanks Bill & Lenny;) I actually provide the turtles with cuttlebone to bite if they want. . . I heard that that was a good thing for them for their shell, bones & their beak:) Thank you for the sites, I will be checking them out today!:) Tara -------Original Message------- From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny Date: 9/11/2009 1:13:14 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] My Oscar again:} Here's a DIY worm growing system for growing your own... but not Earthworms as they are harder to grow indoors or keep from crawling out of their box. Read down to the section on Red Worms. http://www.thekrib.com/Food/worms.html As you will see, this is an old forum thread from the 90's so you will have to check on sources for the red worms since I'm sure the info in this thread is no longer adequate. By growing/raising your own food, you also have the opportunity to make sure they are healthy and even gut-load them with vitamins/nutrients for added nutritional value to the fish. On a side note, just about anything you read on TheKrib's website, http://www.TheKrib.com, or on Badman's website, http://www.BadmansTropicalFish.com, will be VERY good information, although dated in some cases. These websites were some of the first on the internet about fish keeping and some really smart fish keepers populated their forums or rather bulletin board services (BBS) which is what forums/groups were called in the "old days" of computers and the internet. Another good website is The Skeptical Aquarist, http://www.skepticalaquarist.com/index.shtml.. and of course, my own blog but much of what I've learned has been from my own experiences and what I've learned on these other sites and forums like this one. I mainly do articles on my blog that I do not see on other sites or when I may not like something included in another site... and depending on how much time I have to spare for writing articles. As far as your turtles, you will also want to know your water parameters for them. If your new well water is a low pH and soft water, you will have to supplement their diet and/or add something like crushed coral or Cuttlebone to the filter to increase the KH and pH of the tank or their shells will suffer. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Cee Jaye Sent: Friday, September 11, 2009 11:43 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] My Oscar again:} Hello Everyone! I wanted to let you all know that I finally moved my Oscar . . . (funny I never gave "him" a name!:) into his tank last nite!! Around 6pm He seems to be doing well. I thought maybet he transition in the evening would be better so he'd have the nite where it would be mostly quiet & dark. He's not really moping & is swimming around;) Dumb me I forgot the top to the tank so I have to put a sterlite container across the top (one of those long sweater box things) which he doesn't care for! :} He keeps looking at it like what is that??? The turtles got moved back into their home too & seem to be "happy" enough;) They ate this afternoon readily, so I guess they aren't too disturbed;) The one I have had for 2 & 1/2 yrs now - I got her the summer before I got my Oscar. I want to thank all of you that gave me help through this!!! I hope that he will do well & I will watch him & change his water. Someone mentioned he can have earthworms? I know of that . . But from the yard? Or do I buy them at a store? I think I could dig up several earthworms now, but in a few wks they'd be gone. . . But I could get some into a container for him! Does anyone raise worms? What do ya do to them? (care-wise) Thank you all again! I am going to send in another question:) LOL Tara & fish, turtles, kids;) LOL ------------------------------------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the home page. Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com to receive the digest, which includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com for the No E-Mail option where you will still be able to read messages on the group and post replies. Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com to receive individual e-mails Yahoo! Groups Links [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 43330	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 9/11/2009
Subject: Re: Regarding new tank (when the time comes) for Oscar

This is how I've cloned many smaller tanks and their fish into larger tanks. The main thing you want to do with a new tank is "clone" your old tank into the new tank. This mainly means the filter and gravel so you are transferring as much of the good bacteria as possible from the old tank to the new tank. Prior to the move, do daily 25% PWC's and gravel vacuuming for several days to a week, to get his tank's water clean and stabile and to remove as much detritus from the gravel as possible. This also slowly acclimates him to water very close to your tap water parameters since the new tank will have a LOT more tap water even when you add most of the current tank's water to the new tank. Move the fish to a holding tank (or big bucket) with the current tank's filter running on it. DO NOT fill up the new tank yet. If you are using the same gravel, which is a good idea and probably using the same amount of gravel in your current tank will be all you need for the bigger tank since you don't want a deep gravel bed anyhow. A thin gravel bed is a LOT easier to vacuum every week compared to the deep gravel bed. Deep gravel beds are only needed for planted tanks and Oscars and plants do not do very well together anyhow. I only have 1/2" to 1" deep gravel in my goldfish tank and put the plants in 2" or 3" clay pots. Once the fish and filter are running in the holding tank/bucket, filled with water from his tank, move all your plants (I'm guessing fake in your case) and decorations to the new tank, all in one corner. Siphon at least 1/2 to 2/3rd's of the water from the old tank to the new tank, leaving just 6" of water in the old tank. Then put a colander in the old tank and using a slotted spoon, spatula or other tool, scoop up the old gravel and put it into the colander. When full, lift the colander and let most of the dirty water drain and then move the colander to the new tank and spread it out. NOTE... if you are not using the old gravel, then you would put the new gravel down first and just set the colander full of old gravel into the new tank (or fill several pantyhose feet with the old gravel and lay these tubes on the new gravel. If using the old gravel, just spread it out and repeat with the colander until you've transferred at least 1/2" to 1" of gravel to the new BIGGER tank bottom. Discard the old dirty water from the old tank. Fill the new tank up with just enough tap water to make it deep enough for your fish. Then transfer your fish and the water from his bucket to the new tank. There should be no problems with water parameters since you had done all of them PWC's prior to this move so his tank's water should have been nearly identical to your tap water... and you used enough of his previous water to keep it nearly identical even when you might have had to add a little more tap water to make it deep enough for him. Move the filter to the new tank also. Once he's in the new tank and all seems well, you can add 10% more tap water every half-hour or so until the tank is full. As far as bottled water, it has it's own possible problems and if the water chemistry of the bottled water is different from what your fish is use to, the same acclimation issues will be applicable. I would avoid it since it's expensive and usually no better than tap water anyhow. Most bottle water is simply filtered tap water anyhow and depending on how much they filter it, it could be worse for the fish if they filter out all of the minerals and macro-nutrients that the fish need. For example, distilled water, often sold in bottled water sections, is HORRIBLE for using on fish. They will die in short order if kept in only distilled water. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Cee Jaye Sent: Friday, September 11, 2009 11:55 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Regarding new tank (when the time comes) for Oscar Ok. I want to be sure that I will be prepared. . Because sometimes the opportunity for the new tank just arises. . . So. When the new tank comes - first off I will take advice & get the biggest I can, although I'll take any bigger tank in the interim to give him more room When the new tank comes, what should be done to be sure that it will be adequately set up for him? Do people here use bottled water? I used to do that & use a bit of salt. . . With using the water in the home, what things do I need to watch for? (Like I am not sure about the "shock" treatment they used either, except for what Lenny posted, and I am guessing that should the time come they do that again I will need to be very careful. I could use bottled water at that time, maybe? I did have the full master kit for testing at my husbands (the pH & nitrate, etc testing) because even though I didn't really do it with my Oscar, I did have bettas that I tested the water before adding them etc. When I first put the fish in, I generally test the waters. I asked him about it & he didn't know so I am going to have to have him look. Ok I have to go to town, so I will be back in a bit;) Better go by & get his lid;) LOL!! Thank you all again!! :) Tara & all [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] ------------------------------------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. 74/`7.88.><((((:>.74/`7.88.74/`7.8><((((:> 8.74/`7.8. , .74/`7..><((((:> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <:((((><.74/`7.88.74/`7.8<:((((><8.74/`7.8. , .74/`7..<:((((><74/`7.88. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the home page. Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com to receive the digest, which includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com for the No E-Mail option where you will still be able to read messages on the group and post replies. Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com to receive individual e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 43331	From: sevenspringss@wmconnect.com	Date: 9/11/2009
Subject: Re: My Oscar again:}

Tara, Make sure to cover the entire top and weight it (with a brick or something) if need be. Sterlite doesn't weigh very much and can easily get knocked off if he decides to jump. A 6" or 7" Oscar should be able to handle small nitecrawlers (or LARGE "regular" earthworms. If you decide on feeding him earthworms, only take them from your yard if the lawn has not been dusted for insect pests. You can't put earthworms in water for 24 hours as they will drown. I doubt if any small amount of internal topsoil in the worms will harm the fish. Then too, I don't know how long it would take to empty their digestive system contents of dirt. Some people keep their worms in ground up, moist, plain grey cardboard. Most pet shops carry both kinds of worms. Ray [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 43332	From: sevenspringss@wmconnect.com	Date: 9/11/2009
Subject: Re: Regarding new tank (when the time comes) for Oscar

Tara, You've already been advised that an 18" wide tank would be best for your Oscar. If you can get a 75 gallon tank that woulds be ideal, but even a 50 gallon would do in a pinch. If you're considering accepting "any bigger" used tank in the meantime, DO NOT get one that had previously housed a reptile or small mammal. No, you don't need bottled water unless as a last resort if your tap or well water is completely unsuitable for fish life. It's always best whenever possible to use your tap water (or well water) to maintain your fish, and for ease and consistency of providing the same kind of water when doing PWC's (partial water changes). He doesn't need salt either, although you could keep a constant 1/8 tsp. per gallon in his water as a prophylactic against possible ammonia and nitrite issues, but I doubt he'd encounter these in a 75 gallon tank by himself if you're keeping up with maintenance. To be truthful, the first time I read of your having "shock treatment" done to your water was when Lenny brought it up; I didn't know that one of your water sources was being shocked as I hadn't seen you mention it (I obviously missed that, if you did). I still don't know which of your water sources was "shocked" or gets shocked regularly -- your well water or your tap water. If it's only one of these sources that gets shocked, test your alternate water supply and see if you can use that. If it's close to what his conditions are presently, I don't see any reason why you couldn't use it (with a water conditioner, as needed). Beats paying for 19 gallons of bottled water each time you do a 25% PWC in his 75 gallon tank. I just saw you went out to buy him a lid. Smart move; make sure it's heavy enough. Oscars don't jump very often, but it only takes once and he's gone. Ray [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 43333	From: kuradi8	Date: 9/11/2009
Subject: Re: Air Pumps

For those of you who might remember my air pump dilemma, Well, I took the plunge. I'd had my eye on a Rena 400 but got a good deal on one of these instead. This is not where I got the pump from but this ebay listing describes it best: http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=300343244939 It's for my 55g and will replace a very disappointingly wimpy Whisper-60. I hope I chose well. Did I? ~Kai

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 43334	From: Cee Jaye	Date: 9/11/2009
Subject: Re: My Oscar again:}

Thanks Ray!:) Tara -------Original Message------- From: sevenspringss@... Date: 9/11/2009 2:18:30 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] My Oscar again:} Tara, Make sure to cover the entire top and weight it (with a brick or something) if need be. Sterlite doesn't weigh very much and can easily get knocked off if he decides to jump. A 6" or 7" Oscar should be able to handle small nitecrawlers (or LARGE "regular" earthworms. If you decide on feeding him earthworms, only take them from your yard if the lawn has not been dusted for insect pests. You can't put earthworms in water for 24 hours as they will drown. I doubt if any small amount of internal topsoil in the worms will harm the fish. Then too, I don't know how long it would take to empty their digestive system contents of dirt. Some people keep their worms in ground up, moist, plain grey cardboard. Most pet shops carry both kinds of worms. Ray [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] ------------------------------------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the home page. Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com to receive the digest, which includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com for the No E-Mail option where you will still be able to read messages on the group and post replies. Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com to receive individual e-mails Yahoo! Groups Links [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 43335	From: Cee Jaye	Date: 9/11/2009
Subject: Re: Regarding new tank (when the time comes) for Oscar

Thanks Lenny!! I will keep all these messages:) I know distilled water is bad for them :) I never ever use that;)) Tara -------Original Message------- From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny Date: 9/11/2009 1:40:02 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Regarding new tank (when the time comes) for Oscar This is how I've cloned many smaller tanks and their fish into larger tanks. The main thing you want to do with a new tank is "clone" your old tank into the new tank. This mainly means the filter and gravel so you are transferring as much of the good bacteria as possible from the old tank to the new tank. Prior to the move, do daily 25% PWC's and gravel vacuuming for several days to a week, to get his tank's water clean and stabile and to remove as much detritus from the gravel as possible. This also slowly acclimates him to water very close to your tap water parameters since the new tank will have a LOT more tap water even when you add most of the current tank's water to the new tank. Move the fish to a holding tank (or big bucket) with the current tank's filter running on it. DO NOT fill up the new tank yet. If you are using the same gravel, which is a good idea and probably using the same amount of gravel in your current tank will be all you need for the bigger tank since you don't want a deep gravel bed anyhow. A thin gravel bed is a LOT easier to vacuum every week compared to the deep gravel bed. Deep gravel beds are only needed for planted tanks and Oscars and plants do not do very well together anyhow. I only have 1/2" to 1" deep gravel in my goldfish tank and put the plants in 2" or 3" clay pots. Once the fish and filter are running in the holding tank/bucket, filled with water from his tank, move all your plants (I'm guessing fake in your case) and decorations to the new tank, all in one corner. Siphon at least 1/2 to 2/3rd's of the water from the old tank to the new tank, leaving just 6" of water in the old tank. Then put a colander in the old tank and using a slotted spoon, spatula or other tool, scoop up the old gravel and put it into the colander. When full, lift the colander and let most of the dirty water drain and then move the colander to the new tank and spread it out. NOTE... if you are not using the old gravel, then you would put the new gravel down first and just set the colander full of old gravel into the new tank (or fill several pantyhose feet with the old gravel and lay these tubes on the new gravel. If using the old gravel, just spread it out and repeat with the colander until you've transferred at least 1/2" to 1" of gravel to the new BIGGER tank bottom. Discard the old dirty water from the old tank. Fill the new tank up with just enough tap water to make it deep enough for your fish. Then transfer your fish and the water from his bucket to the new tank. There should be no problems with water parameters since you had done all of them PWC's prior to this move so his tank's water should have been nearly identical to your tap water... and you used enough of his previous water to keep it nearly identical even when you might have had to add a little more tap water to make it deep enough for him. Move the filter to the new tank also. Once he's in the new tank and all seems well, you can add 10% more tap water every half-hour or so until the tank is full. As far as bottled water, it has it's own possible problems and if the water chemistry of the bottled water is different from what your fish is use to, the same acclimation issues will be applicable. I would avoid it since it's expensive and usually no better than tap water anyhow. Most bottle water is simply filtered tap water anyhow and depending on how much they filter it, it could be worse for the fish if they filter out all of the minerals and macro-nutrients that the fish need. For example, distilled water, often sold in bottled water sections, is HORRIBLE for using on fish. They will die in short order if kept in only distilled water. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Cee Jaye Sent: Friday, September 11, 2009 11:55 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Regarding new tank (when the time comes) for Oscar Ok. I want to be sure that I will be prepared. . Because sometimes the opportunity for the new tank just arises. . . So. When the new tank comes - first off I will take advice & get the biggest I can, although I'll take any bigger tank in the interim to give him more room When the new tank comes, what should be done to be sure that it will be adequately set up for him? Do people here use bottled water? I used to do that & use a bit of salt. . . With using the water in the home, what things do I need to watch for? (Like I am not sure about the "shock" treatment they used either, except for what Lenny posted, and I am guessing that should the time come they do that again I will need to be very careful. I could use bottled water at that time, maybe? I did have the full master kit for testing at my husbands (the pH & nitrate, etc testing) because even though I didn't really do it with my Oscar, I did have bettas that I tested the water before adding them etc. When I first put the fish in, I generally test the waters. I asked him about it & he didn't know so I am going to have to have him look. Ok I have to go to town, so I will be back in a bit;) Better go by & get his lid;) LOL!! Thank you all again!! :) Tara & all [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] ------------------------------------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. 74/`7.88.><((((:>.74/`7.88.74/`7.8><((((:> 8.74/`7.8. , .74/`7..><((((:> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <:((((><.74/`7.88.74/`7.8<:((((><8.74/`7.8. , .74/`7..<:((((><74/`7.88. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the home page. Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com to receive the digest, which includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com for the No E-Mail option where you will still be able to read messages on the group and post replies. Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com to receive individual e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links ------------------------------------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the home page. Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com to receive the digest, which includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com for the No E-Mail option where you will still be able to read messages on the group and post replies. Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com to receive individual e-mails Yahoo! Groups Links [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 43336	From: Cee Jaye	Date: 9/11/2009
Subject: Re: Regarding new tank // Ray

Hi Ray, Thank you again for replying to me;) I don't want to "settle" for anything, but if I come across, say a 50 gal in the search for a 75, I will take it so he can get out of his present tank. The tank I have now is also a long instead of high. We don't have city water here. The water inside (tap water) is from the well outside. I didn't know about the "shock" treatment until she told me & it was done about a 2 wks or so, before I got here (Wed). Well, he has a lid to his tank, but I forgot it. . I don't know how that happened, but it did. . So actually I have the turtles sitting across the top of his cage. . He does not care for this "container" across his cage, but he isn't overly bothered, because he is swimming around as to what I would expect of him "under normal situations". . . So I think so far so good!! I thank everyone in their help in transitioning him!!:)) As funny as it is, & even though he hasn't been with me the last few MOS, I m very fond of him & enjoy him very much:) Tara -------Original Message------- From: sevenspringss@... Date: 9/11/2009 2:46:30 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Regarding new tank (when the time comes) for Oscar Tara, You've already been advised that an 18" wide tank would be best for your Oscar. If you can get a 75 gallon tank that woulds be ideal, but even a 50 gallon would do in a pinch. If you're considering accepting "any bigger" used tank in the meantime, DO NOT get one that had previously housed a reptile or small mammal. No, you don't need bottled water unless as a last resort if your tap or well water is completely unsuitable for fish life. It's always best whenever possible to use your tap water (or well water) to maintain your fish, and for ease and consistency of providing the same kind of water when doing PWC's (partial water changes). He doesn't need salt either, although you could keep a constant 1/8 tsp. per gallon in his water as a prophylactic against possible ammonia and nitrite issues, but I doubt he'd encounter these in a 75 gallon tank by himself if you're keeping up with maintenance. To be truthful, the first time I read of your having "shock treatment" done to your water was when Lenny brought it up; I didn't know that one of your water sources was being shocked as I hadn't seen you mention it (I obviously missed that, if you did). I still don't know which of your water sources was "shocked" or gets shocked regularly -- your well water or your tap water If it's only one of these sources that gets shocked, test your alternate water supply and see if you can use that. If it's close to what his conditions are presently, I don't see any reason why you couldn't use it (with a water conditioner, as needed). Beats paying for 19 gallons of bottled water each time you do a 25% PWC in his 75 gallon tank. I just saw you went out to buy him a lid. Smart move; make sure it's heavy enough. Oscars don't jump very often, but it only takes once and he's gone. Ray [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] ------------------------------------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the home page. Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com to receive the digest, which includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com for the No E-Mail option where you will still be able to read messages on the group and post replies. Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com to receive individual e-mails Yahoo! Groups Links [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 43337	From: biG poppa	Date: 9/11/2009
Subject: Re: Air Pumps

i have 6 huge old school aquaclear air pumps i don't know what to do with them now thats a dilemma --- On Fri, 9/11/09, kuradi8 <kuradi8@...> wrote: From: kuradi8 <kuradi8@...> Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Air Pumps To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Date: Friday, September 11, 2009, 4:45 PM   For those of you who might remember my air pump dilemma, Well, I took the plunge. I'd had my eye on a Rena 400 but got a good deal on one of these instead. This is not where I got the pump from but this ebay listing describes it best: http://cgi.ebay com/ws/eBayISAPI .dll?ViewItem& item=30034324493 9 It's for my 55g and will replace a very disappointingly wimpy Whisper-60. I hope I chose well. Did I? ~Kai [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 43338	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 9/11/2009
Subject: Re: Air Pumps

eBay. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of biG poppa Sent: Friday, September 11, 2009 5:34 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: Air Pumps i have 6 huge old school aquaclear air pumps i don't know what to do with them now thats a dilemma --- On Fri, 9/11/09, kuradi8 <kuradi8@...> wrote: From: kuradi8 <kuradi8@...> Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Air Pumps To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Date: Friday, September 11, 2009, 4:45 PM   For those of you who might remember my air pump dilemma, Well, I took the plunge. I'd had my eye on a Rena 400 but got a good deal on one of these instead. This is not where I got the pump from but this ebay listing describes it best: http://cgi.ebay com/ws/eBayISAPI .dll?ViewItem& item=30034324493 9 It's for my 55g and will replace a very disappointingly wimpy Whisper-60. I hope I chose well. Did I? ~Kai [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] ------------------------------------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the home page. Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com to receive the digest, which includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com for the No E-Mail option where you will still be able to read messages on the group and post replies. Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com to receive individual e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 43339	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 9/11/2009
Subject: Re: Air Pumps

That one seems like overkill for a single tank... or were you planning on adding a few more now? I thought you were looking at the low-$40's or lower price range. ;-) Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of kuradi8 Sent: Friday, September 11, 2009 3:45 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Air Pumps For those of you who might remember my air pump dilemma, Well, I took the plunge. I'd had my eye on a Rena 400 but got a good deal on one of these instead. This is not where I got the pump from but this ebay listing describes it best: http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=300343244939 It's for my 55g and will replace a very disappointingly wimpy Whisper-60. I hope I chose well. Did I? ~Kai

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 43340	From: kuradi8	Date: 9/11/2009
Subject: Re: Air Pumps

After having gotten burned by the wimpy pump, overkill seemed like a better option than another disappointment. And the 4 outlets give me the option of adding more (sing this) tiiiiny buuuubbles if the pump truly is up to the task. Both this one and the Rena are 8w. The Rena's PSI is higher. But this one's L/min is higher. So equal, worse, better... I figured they're pretty close. And believe it or not, I stayed in my meager price range. ;o) ~Kai --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@...> wrote: > > That one seems like overkill for a single tank... or were you planning on > adding a few more now? I thought you were looking at the low-$40's or lower > price range. ;-) > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right > side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) > > > -----Original Message----- > Kai wrote: > > For those of you who might remember my air pump dilemma, > > Well, I took the plunge. I'd had my eye on a Rena 400 but got a good deal > on one of these instead. This is not where I got the pump from but this > ebay listing describes it best: > http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=300343244939 > > It's for my 55g and will replace a very disappointingly wimpy Whisper-60. I > hope I chose well. Did I? > ~Kai >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 43341	From: biG poppa	Date: 9/11/2009
Subject: Re: Air Pumps

here is a question for you Lenny whats the ratio of air per gallon of water? --- On Fri, 9/11/09, Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@...> wrote: From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@...> Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: Air Pumps To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Date: Friday, September 11, 2009, 7:27 PM   That one seems like overkill for a single tank... or were you planning on adding a few more now? I thought you were looking at the low-$40's or lower price range. ;-) Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com [mailto:AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com] On Behalf Of kuradi8 Sent: Friday, September 11, 2009 3:45 PM To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Air Pumps For those of you who might remember my air pump dilemma, Well, I took the plunge. I'd had my eye on a Rena 400 but got a good deal on one of these instead. This is not where I got the pump from but this ebay listing describes it best: http://cgi.ebay. com/ws/eBayISAPI .dll?ViewItem& item=30034324493 9 It's for my 55g and will replace a very disappointingly wimpy Whisper-60. I hope I chose well. Did I? ~Kai [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 43342	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 9/11/2009
Subject: Re: Air Pumps

There's no real answer for this one. For my tanks, it's a big fat ZERO. I've had them in the past for bubble stones and wands but I have grown to like more natural looking tanks and air bubbles rarely happen in nature. For some folks, who have lots of air stones, bubble wands, air powered treasure chests or alligators, air powered UGF's, sponge filters or corner filters, then they need a LOT more. Maybe one of the folks that used or still uses air power for sponge filters in one or more tanks can tell you how much air power they use, as a guideline, depending on the size of the filter and depth of the tank. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of biG poppa Sent: Friday, September 11, 2009 6:39 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: Air Pumps here is a question for you Lenny whats the ratio of air per gallon of water? --- On Fri, 9/11/09, Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@...> wrote: From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@...> Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: Air Pumps To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Date: Friday, September 11, 2009, 7:27 PM   That one seems like overkill for a single tank... or were you planning on adding a few more now? I thought you were looking at the low-$40's or lower price range. ;-) Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com [mailto:AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com] On Behalf Of kuradi8 Sent: Friday, September 11, 2009 3:45 PM To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Air Pumps For those of you who might remember my air pump dilemma, Well, I took the plunge. I'd had my eye on a Rena 400 but got a good deal on one of these instead. This is not where I got the pump from but this ebay listing describes it best: http://cgi.ebay. com/ws/eBayISAPI .dll?ViewItem& item=30034324493 9 It's for my 55g and will replace a very disappointingly wimpy Whisper-60. I hope I chose well. Did I? ~Kai

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 43343	From: Cee Jaye	Date: 9/11/2009
Subject: Re: Regarding new tank - In addition to. . .

Well, I guess when the time comes to move him to a larger tank, it will also require purchasing a new filter??:) So, my next question is this. . . What filtration systems do you recommend for a 55 or 75 gal tank housing 1 Oscar? My other thing is. . . I have nothing in his tank. He has no stones or anything. Should he HAVE stones? Is it necessary? Thanks! Tara [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 43344	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 9/11/2009
Subject: Re: Air Pumps

I hope this one has enough Ummmph to push air to the bottom of your tank. That's where the PSI comes in handy. How much higher PSI rating did the Rena have? Since it was designed for hydroponics, I'm not sure their water systems are very deep... in fact, I think they are rather shallow trays, but I could be wrong. This page shows the deepest of three plant containers at less than 6" deep. http://homeharvest.com/hydroponicgrowingcontainers.htm This site even has a page about your new pump... http://www.4hydroponics.com/grow_room/dualDiaphragmPump.asp with a lower price than what you paid also. Sorry to be the bearer of bad news. I see yours does include free shipping so maybe that will make the $54.95 price on this page more palatable compared to the $71.88 price on eBay. Worse case scenario, you could probably sell it on Craigslist in the "Grow Your Own" section. LOL I'm sure there are more of "those kinds" of hydroponics users than folks that grow fruits and veggies. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of kuradi8 Sent: Friday, September 11, 2009 6:41 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Air Pumps After having gotten burned by the wimpy pump, overkill seemed like a better option than another disappointment. And the 4 outlets give me the option of adding more (sing this) tiiiiny buuuubbles if the pump truly is up to the task. Both this one and the Rena are 8w. The Rena's PSI is higher. But this one's L/min is higher. So equal, worse, better... I figured they're pretty close. And believe it or not, I stayed in my meager price range. ;o) ~Kai --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@...> wrote: > > That one seems like overkill for a single tank... or were you planning > on adding a few more now? I thought you were looking at the low-$40's > or lower price range. ;-) > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles > referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically > under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) > > > -----Original Message----- > Kai wrote: > > For those of you who might remember my air pump dilemma, > > Well, I took the plunge. I'd had my eye on a Rena 400 but got a good > deal on one of these instead. This is not where I got the pump from > but this ebay listing describes it best: > http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=300343244939 > > It's for my 55g and will replace a very disappointingly wimpy > Whisper-60. I hope I chose well. Did I? > ~Kai

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 43345	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 9/11/2009
Subject: Re: Regarding new tank - In addition to. . .

Keep your current filter and just add a second filter system. I don't know what you have now but I'd make the second filter system a Rena Filstar canister filter which would do a better job of handling the weekly waste output of an larger Oscar. Put one filter system on each end of the tank to ensure adequate water circulation throughout the tank. I'm pretty sure Oscars LOVE to dig in the gravel, which is why they do not do well with plants but they still like to dig and redecorate their tanks on a regular basis. See those two good profile articles I gave you links to in one of my earlier replies... one on Mongabay.com and one on Cichlid-Forum.com. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Cee Jaye Sent: Friday, September 11, 2009 7:30 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Regarding new tank - In addition to. . . Well, I guess when the time comes to move him to a larger tank, it will also require purchasing a new filter??:) So, my next question is this. . . What filtration systems do you recommend for a 55 or 75 gal tank housing 1 Oscar? My other thing is. . . I have nothing in his tank. He has no stones or anything. Should he HAVE stones? Is it necessary? Thanks! Tara

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 43346	From: Cee Jaye	Date: 9/11/2009
Subject: Re: Regarding new tank - In addition to. . .

Thanks much Lenny!! I will check those articles out in just a few mins. . I m winding down & getting ready to settle & watch TV, so I will do that when I get ready for bed;) Tara -------Original Message------- From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny Date: 9/11/2009 8:54:36 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Regarding new tank - In addition to. . . Keep your current filter and just add a second filter system. I don't know what you have now but I'd make the second filter system a Rena Filstar canister filter which would do a better job of handling the weekly waste output of an larger Oscar. Put one filter system on each end of the tank to ensure adequate water circulation throughout the tank. I'm pretty sure Oscars LOVE to dig in the gravel, which is why they do not do well with plants but they still like to dig and redecorate their tanks on a regular basis. See those two good profile articles I gave you links to in one of my earlier replies... one on Mongabay.com and one on Cichlid-Forum.com. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Cee Jaye Sent: Friday, September 11, 2009 7:30 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Regarding new tank - In addition to. . . Well, I guess when the time comes to move him to a larger tank, it will also require purchasing a new filter??:) So, my next question is this. . . What filtration systems do you recommend for a 55 or 75 gal tank housing 1 Oscar? My other thing is. . . I have nothing in his tank. He has no stones or anything. Should he HAVE stones? Is it necessary? Thanks! Tara ------------------------------------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the home page. Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com to receive the digest, which includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com for the No E-Mail option where you will still be able to read messages on the group and post replies. Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com to receive individual e-mails Yahoo! Groups Links [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 43347	From: bill 1433	Date: 9/11/2009
Subject: Re: Regarding new tank - In addition to. . .

There'w no question in my mind which one I'd buy: http://www.marinelandc-series.com/ If this one don't get ya there, nothin' will! Bill --- On Fri, 9/11/09, Cee Jaye <CeeJayee@...> wrote: > From: Cee Jaye <CeeJayee@...> > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Regarding new tank - In addition to. . . > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Date: Friday, September 11, 2009, 8:29 PM > Well, I guess when the time comes to > move him to a larger tank, it will also > require purchasing a new filter??:) > > So, my next question is this. . . What filtration systems > do you recommend > for a 55 or 75 gal tank housing 1 Oscar? > > My other thing is. . . I have nothing in his tank. He has > no stones or > anything. Should he HAVE stones? Is it necessary? > > Thanks! > Tara > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > ------------------------------------ > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when > replying, Thank You. > ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> > ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> > PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is > NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of > the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new > subject (was re: old subject)" <- > <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. > , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. > > If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of > unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by > clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the home page.  > > Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com > to receive the digest, which includes up to 25 posts at a > time in a single email > > Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com > for the No E-Mail option where you will still be able to > read messages on the group and post replies. > > Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com > to receive individual e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links > > >     mailto:AquaticLife-fullfeatured@yahoogroups.com > > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 43348	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 9/11/2009
Subject: Re: Air Pumps

Do you mean how much air to provide a tank with using a pump, or how much oxygen and carbon dioxide should be in the water? If it is the former, enough to do the job you want it to do. If you are using an air driven UGF, you'll need a lot more air than if you want the pirate chest that uses air to lift the lid as a large bubble of air is released. If you mean the latter, you want to look at 5-8 ppm of oxygen. The higher your temperature, the less oxygen the water can hold in solution. I do not know about the concentration of other gases in the water, but I do know that I have seen a number for CO2, but it hasn't hung around in my mind. \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of biG poppa Sent: Friday, September 11, 2009 7:39 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: Air Pumps here is a question for you Lenny whats the ratio of air per gallon of water? --- On Fri, 9/11/09, Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@...> wrote: From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@...> Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: Air Pumps To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Date: Friday, September 11, 2009, 7:27 PM   That one seems like overkill for a single tank... or were you planning on adding a few more now? I thought you were looking at the low-$40's or lower price range. ;-) Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com [mailto:AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com] On Behalf Of kuradi8 Sent: Friday, September 11, 2009 3:45 PM To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Air Pumps For those of you who might remember my air pump dilemma, Well, I took the plunge. I'd had my eye on a Rena 400 but got a good deal on one of these instead. This is not where I got the pump from but this ebay listing describes it best: http://cgi.ebay. com/ws/eBayISAPI .dll?ViewItem& item=30034324493 9 It's for my 55g and will replace a very disappointingly wimpy Whisper-60. I hope I chose well. Did I? ~Kai

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 43349	From: kuradi8	Date: 9/11/2009
Subject: Re: Air Pumps

Gosh, I really wish someone had said I need to look at PSI a few days ago when I asked which of the specs is most important. Now that I know that the answer is PSI, I can kinda infer it by looking back at a couple of the replies but it really didn't sink in at the time. Kevin's reply spoke of volume and pressure but I didn't know which was more important. And Lenny, you said, "It takes work to push air under water so a deeper tank needs a much stronger air pump. It's nothing to do with watts or liters per minute if the pump can't push the air down to the depths that you might need.?" OK, I guess now that I know you meant PSI, that's what you meant. But I wish you'd said so in so many words. Unfortunately, process of elimination didn't sink in to my feeble mind. The Rena supposedly maxes out at 4.3psi and the Hydroponics at 3psi. The Rena has 2 outlets and the Hydro has 4 (but they can be switched off) so do I have to divide that output by the number of outlets that are being used? Crap, I'da been better off with a pair of those single-outlet Chinese units with 4.35psi. I dunno... can I TRUST their specs? Crap. Too soon old, too late smart. I hope this doesn't turn out to be yet MORE money down the drain. This is me snarling, growling and spitting sparks. ~Kai --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@...> wrote: > > I hope this one has enough Ummmph to push air to the bottom of your tank. > That's where the PSI comes in handy. How much higher PSI rating did the > Rena have? Since it was designed for hydroponics, I'm not sure their water > systems are very deep... in fact, I think they are rather shallow trays, but > I could be wrong. This page shows the deepest of three plant containers at > less than 6" deep. http://homeharvest.com/hydroponicgrowingcontainers.htm > > This site even has a page about your new pump... > http://www.4hydroponics.com/grow_room/dualDiaphragmPump.asp with a lower > price than what you paid also. Sorry to be the bearer of bad news. I see > yours does include free shipping so maybe that will make the $54.95 price on > this page more palatable compared to the $71.88 price on eBay. > > Worse case scenario, you could probably sell it on Craigslist in the "Grow > Your Own" section. LOL I'm sure there are more of "those kinds" of > hydroponics users than folks that grow fruits and veggies. > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right > side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On > Behalf Of kuradi8 > Sent: Friday, September 11, 2009 6:41 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Air Pumps > > After having gotten burned by the wimpy pump, overkill seemed like a better > option than another disappointment. And the 4 outlets give me the option of > adding more (sing this) tiiiiny buuuubbles if the pump truly is up to the > task. > > Both this one and the Rena are 8w. The Rena's PSI is higher. But this > one's L/min is higher. So equal, worse, better... I figured they're pretty > close. > > And believe it or not, I stayed in my meager price range. ;o) ~Kai > > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@> > wrote: > > > > That one seems like overkill for a single tank... or were you planning > > on adding a few more now? I thought you were looking at the low-$40's > > or lower price range. ;-) > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles > > referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically > > under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > Kai wrote: > > > > For those of you who might remember my air pump dilemma, > > > > Well, I took the plunge. I'd had my eye on a Rena 400 but got a good > > deal on one of these instead. This is not where I got the pump from > > but this ebay listing describes it best: > > http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=300343244939 > > > > It's for my 55g and will replace a very disappointingly wimpy > > Whisper-60. I hope I chose well. Did I? > > ~Kai >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 43350	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 9/11/2009
Subject: Re: Regarding new tank - In addition to. . .

I'm also a big proponent of the Rena Filstar canister filters, they are fairly easy to clean compared to most canister filters and after you prime it for the very first time you never have to again, all you do is unplug the filter, unplug the hoses from the base (they have a lever to shut off the water flow and unhook the hoses so water won't pour out onto the floor). Then you do your filter cleaning, refill with fresh tank water (not tap water, make sure you remember this as it will kill off your nitrifying bacteria in your filter). Then hook it all back up and plug it in, viola! :) LOL. I'd switch all my filters over to the rena filstars if I could switch for free ;) Also if you watch on ebay you can find cheap deals for the rena xp 4's (which is the one I would recommend for you). I got 2 of them for less than half of what you'd pay on a retail site, and they were only dented boxes, everything inside the box was still sealed up in plastic still and unused. Just make sure to read the descriptions carefully, especially if you're in a place that's not easy to ship to (like I am), as some ebay sellers will only ship to the continental US (I'm still wondering if they look at a map, Alaska is really attached to the northern continent, it's not floating off by hawaii like it looks like on most maps ;) LOL. Amber Cee Jaye wrote: > > > Thanks much Lenny!! I will check those articles out in just a few > mins. . I > m winding down & getting ready to settle & watch TV, so I will do that > when > I get ready for bed;) > Tara > > -------Original Message------- > > From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny > Date: 9/11/2009 8:54:36 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Regarding new tank - In addition to. . . > > Keep your current filter and just add a second filter system. I don't > know > what you have now but I'd make the second filter system a Rena Filstar > canister filter which would do a better job of handling the weekly waste > output of an larger Oscar. Put one filter system on each end of the > tank to > ensure adequate water circulation throughout the tank. I'm pretty sure > Oscars LOVE to dig in the gravel, which is why they do not do well with > plants but they still like to dig and redecorate their tanks on a regular > basis. See those two good profile articles I gave you links to in one > of my > earlier replies... one on Mongabay.com and one on Cichlid-Forum.com. > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right > side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) > > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On > Behalf Of Cee Jaye > Sent: Friday, September 11, 2009 7:30 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Regarding new tank - In addition to. . . > > Well, I guess when the time comes to move him to a larger tank, it > will also > require purchasing a new filter??:) So, my next question is this. . . > What > filtration systems do you recommend for a 55 or 75 gal tank housing 1 > Oscar? > My other thing is. . . I have nothing in his tank. He has no stones or > anything. Should he HAVE stones? Is it necessary? Thanks! Tara > > > > ------------------------------------ > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank > You. > ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> > PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to > the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the > SUBJECT > LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- > <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. > > If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of unsubscribing, you > can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the > home page. > > Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:aquaticlife-digest%40yahoogroups.com> to receive the digest, which > includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email > > Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:aquaticlife-nomail%40yahoogroups.com> for the No E-Mail option > where > you will still be able to read messages on the group and post replies. > > Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:aquaticlife-normal%40yahoogroups.com> to receive individual > e-mails > Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 43351	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 9/11/2009
Subject: Re: Air Pumps

I use one of these Air pumps in my 125 gallon tank and it seems to do the trick to put out enough bubbles in my 4 foot bubble "stick" (one of those bendable bubble wands). I have another ornament hooked up to it but it stopped putting out bubbles, I think it's clogged, so I just turned off the valve and only have the bubble wand bubbling instead. http://www.drsfostersmith.com/product/prod_display.cfm?c=3578+3669+19779&pcatid=19779 It has a handy knob on the top to either turn the pressure up or down, if you don't need as much pressure for your bubbles. I'm not exactly sure which model I have, but it only has one outlet on it, so it's one of the 3 "lesser" models listed, but I know it's not the cheapest one, I got either a 300 or a 400, can't remember now, since I bought it a year ago ;) LOL. It's a good sale going on though. Amber Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > > > I hope this one has enough Ummmph to push air to the bottom of your tank. > That's where the PSI comes in handy. How much higher PSI rating did the > Rena have? Since it was designed for hydroponics, I'm not sure their water > systems are very deep... in fact, I think they are rather shallow > trays, but > I could be wrong. This page shows the deepest of three plant containers at > less than 6" deep. > http://homeharvest.com/hydroponicgrowingcontainers.htm > <http://homeharvest.com/hydroponicgrowingcontainers.htm> > > This site even has a page about your new pump... > http://www.4hydroponics.com/grow_room/dualDiaphragmPump.asp > <http://www.4hydroponics.com/grow_room/dualDiaphragmPump.asp> with a lower > price than what you paid also. Sorry to be the bearer of bad news. I see > yours does include free shipping so maybe that will make the $54.95 > price on > this page more palatable compared to the $71.88 price on eBay. > > Worse case scenario, you could probably sell it on Craigslist in the "Grow > Your Own" section. LOL I'm sure there are more of "those kinds" of > hydroponics users than folks that grow fruits and veggies. > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right > side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On > Behalf Of kuradi8 > Sent: Friday, September 11, 2009 6:41 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Air Pumps > > After having gotten burned by the wimpy pump, overkill seemed like a > better > option than another disappointment. And the 4 outlets give me the > option of > adding more (sing this) tiiiiny buuuubbles if the pump truly is up to the > task. > > Both this one and the Rena are 8w. The Rena's PSI is higher. But this > one's L/min is higher. So equal, worse, better... I figured they're pretty > close. > > And believe it or not, I stayed in my meager price range. ;o) ~Kai > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>, "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" > <GoldLenny@...> > wrote: > > > > That one seems like overkill for a single tank... or were you planning > > on adding a few more now? I thought you were looking at the low-$40's > > or lower price range. ;-) > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> (Links to any articles > > referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically > > under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > Kai wrote: > > > > For those of you who might remember my air pump dilemma, > > > > Well, I took the plunge. I'd had my eye on a Rena 400 but got a good > > deal on one of these instead. This is not where I got the pump from > > but this ebay listing describes it best: > > http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=300343244939 > <http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=300343244939> > > > > It's for my 55g and will replace a very disappointingly wimpy > > Whisper-60. I hope I chose well. Did I? > > ~Kai > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 43352	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 9/11/2009
Subject: Re: Air Pumps

LOL, guess I should learn to read descriptions, I noticed on the site it says that the 400 model's and higher have the knobs, so I definitely have a 400 model, and it puts out plenty of bubbles for my 125 gallon tank, and it's only recommended for 40 gallons (hmm, wonder why?), anyone have any idea why they recommend such low tank volumes? Mine works just fine. Amber Amber Berglund wrote: > I use one of these Air pumps in my 125 gallon tank and it seems to do > the trick to put out enough bubbles in my 4 foot bubble "stick" (one > of those bendable bubble wands). I have another ornament hooked up to > it but it stopped putting out bubbles, I think it's clogged, so I just > turned off the valve and only have the bubble wand bubbling instead. > http://www.drsfostersmith.com/product/prod_display.cfm?c=3578+3669+19779&pcatid=19779 > > It has a handy knob on the top to either turn the pressure up or down, > if you don't need as much pressure for your bubbles. > I'm not exactly sure which model I have, but it only has one outlet on > it, so it's one of the 3 "lesser" models listed, but I know it's not > the cheapest one, I got either a 300 or a 400, can't remember now, > since I bought it a year ago ;) LOL. > It's a good sale going on though. > > Amber > > Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: >> >> >> I hope this one has enough Ummmph to push air to the bottom of your >> tank. >> That's where the PSI comes in handy. How much higher PSI rating did the >> Rena have? Since it was designed for hydroponics, I'm not sure their >> water >> systems are very deep... in fact, I think they are rather shallow >> trays, but >> I could be wrong. This page shows the deepest of three plant >> containers at >> less than 6" deep. >> http://homeharvest.com/hydroponicgrowingcontainers.htm >> <http://homeharvest.com/hydroponicgrowingcontainers.htm> >> >> This site even has a page about your new pump... >> http://www.4hydroponics.com/grow_room/dualDiaphragmPump.asp >> <http://www.4hydroponics.com/grow_room/dualDiaphragmPump.asp> with a >> lower >> price than what you paid also. Sorry to be the bearer of bad news. I see >> yours does include free shipping so maybe that will make the $54.95 >> price on >> this page more palatable compared to the $71.88 price on eBay. >> >> Worse case scenario, you could probably sell it on Craigslist in the >> "Grow >> Your Own" section. LOL I'm sure there are more of "those kinds" of >> hydroponics users than folks that grow fruits and veggies. >> >> Lenny Vasbinder >> Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com >> <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> >> (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right >> side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, >> Month) >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com >> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> >> [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com >> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On >> Behalf Of kuradi8 >> Sent: Friday, September 11, 2009 6:41 PM >> To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> >> Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Air Pumps >> >> After having gotten burned by the wimpy pump, overkill seemed like a >> better >> option than another disappointment. And the 4 outlets give me the >> option of >> adding more (sing this) tiiiiny buuuubbles if the pump truly is up to >> the >> task. >> >> Both this one and the Rena are 8w. The Rena's PSI is higher. But this >> one's L/min is higher. So equal, worse, better... I figured they're >> pretty >> close. >> >> And believe it or not, I stayed in my meager price range. ;o) ~Kai >> >> --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com >> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>, "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" >> <GoldLenny@...> >> wrote: >> > >> > That one seems like overkill for a single tank... or were you planning >> > on adding a few more now? I thought you were looking at the low-$40's >> > or lower price range. ;-) >> > >> > Lenny Vasbinder >> > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com >> <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> (Links to any articles >> > referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically >> > under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) >> > >> > >> > -----Original Message----- >> > Kai wrote: >> > >> > For those of you who might remember my air pump dilemma, >> > >> > Well, I took the plunge. I'd had my eye on a Rena 400 but got a good >> > deal on one of these instead. This is not where I got the pump from >> > but this ebay listing describes it best: >> > http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=300343244939 >> <http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=300343244939> >> > >> > It's for my 55g and will replace a very disappointingly wimpy >> > Whisper-60. I hope I chose well. Did I? >> > ~Kai >> >>

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 43353	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 9/11/2009
Subject: Re: Air Pumps

Actually, PSI, while a helpful spec, isn't the end-all spec either. You have to factor in all of the specs, along with the intended purpose to try and get the best practical pump for an application... whether an air pump or water pump. And then you have to figure that the manufacturers are embellishing things a little... "salesman's fluffery" so to speak. Next, you have to wean through their specs and information to see how they determined their specs. Since that one mentions that it's primary use is with hydroponics, I just hope it has enough Ummphh to push the air down to the dept of your tank. Hopefully, this pump will work for you but it certainly would have been better to ask out here first before buying it. I was under the impression you were going with the Rena Air 400 since a couple of us had vouched for that manufacturer but it still might not have been enough if you have a lot of things needing to be powered by the air pump. Just based on the PSI specs, the Rena has over 40% more Ummphhh but this may not be needed in your situation but might be needed for a 24" deep or deeper aquarium. I wish the pumps put better comparative specs on their pumps.. but they don't. In your case, the pump you purchased, since you are wanting to power a couple or several things may work perfectly for you. I simply haven't experimented with enough air pumps to know. Like the recent follow-up post by BigPoppa... at least I think it was him... asking about how much air does one need in a tank and the answer is "it depends". I have ZERO in my tanks but I know others use air pumps to power their filtration, decorations, air stones, etc. so they need a LOT more. The depth of the tank certainly does matter, as I explained in an earlier reply, and a higher PSI rated pump will do a better job on a deeper tank but then the Liters/hour (or cf - cubic feet/hour), the size of the airline, the size of air-plumbing in the item being powered, etc., also comes into play. For example, you could have a 1" diameter tubing with lots of air volume and a BIG pump, but then if it gets to a 1/8" opening the air is just going to come to a near standstill with only a little bit (1/8") of air going through this smaller opening... but at a higher PSI but with a much lower liter/hour of air volume. Another example, if you are trying to blow up a pool raft through one of them little 1/4" sized plugs, it's going to take you a long time to fill it up because even though you might be able to blow out a lot of air, when trying to force that air through a little opening, it takes a lot more work than if you were trying to fill up a raft that has a plug that's an inch wide or more. At that point, liters per hour comes into play since there is little restriction to get the air into the raft. Now, if you try to blow that same raft up under water, whether with the 1/4" plug or a 1" or 2" plug, it's going to be MUCH, MUCH harder due to the water pressure from the weight of the water. Now, PSI will certainly help with this but then, since the air gets compressed under the weight of the water, you also need enough volume at a certain PSI. It's not a simple one-size-fits-all answer. I'm not a physicist, although I did study it, advanced math and calculus in high school and a little more in college, so while I might be able to understand things, I'm not always able to explain these things to others if they do not have a fundamental understanding of them, so those are the best examples I can come up with. Even with my having stayed at a Holiday Inn Express last night... it doesn't help with this one. LOL http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ff9soPDP7Pc I do have this link in my favorites about Bernoulli's Principle, which deals with fluid dynamics, that is an interactive Java based webpage where you can see how this works with Flow rates of water, which kind of helps with explaining how air works also, when it comes to moving it through different sized pipes/tubing, with the difference being that water is MUCH denser than air so it cannot be easily compressed like air can be compressed or pressurized (there's that PSI thing again). http://home.earthlink.net/~mmc1919/venturi.html If you grab the yellow square on the two ends and open them up wide and then grab the yellow squares in the middle and close them down to an 1/4" or 1/8", you will see what happens to the simulated molecules (the red balls). In a bigger pipe (or river/stream), it can be the same amount of water flowing but at a much slower pace than when the pipe is made much smaller, much like how a river runs slowly but then when it gets to a narrower section, the water flows much faster possibly turning into rapids if the narrowing area is rocky. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of kuradi8 Sent: Friday, September 11, 2009 8:27 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Air Pumps Gosh, I really wish someone had said I need to look at PSI a few days ago when I asked which of the specs is most important. Now that I know that the answer is PSI, I can kinda infer it by looking back at a couple of the replies but it really didn't sink in at the time. Kevin's reply spoke of volume and pressure but I didn't know which was more important. And Lenny, you said, "It takes work to push air under water so a deeper tank needs a much stronger air pump. It's nothing to do with watts or liters per minute if the pump can't push the air down to the depths that you might need.?" OK, I guess now that I know you meant PSI, that's what you meant. But I wish you'd said so in so many words. Unfortunately, process of elimination didn't sink in to my feeble mind. The Rena supposedly maxes out at 4.3psi and the Hydroponics at 3psi. The Rena has 2 outlets and the Hydro has 4 (but they can be switched off) so do I have to divide that output by the number of outlets that are being used? Crap, I'da been better off with a pair of those single-outlet Chinese units with 4.35psi. I dunno... can I TRUST their specs? Crap. Too soon old, too late smart. I hope this doesn't turn out to be yet MORE money down the drain. This is me snarling, growling and spitting sparks. ~Kai --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@...> wrote: > > I hope this one has enough Ummmph to push air to the bottom of your tank. > That's where the PSI comes in handy. How much higher PSI rating did > the Rena have? Since it was designed for hydroponics, I'm not sure > their water systems are very deep... in fact, I think they are rather shallow trays, but > I could be wrong. This page shows the deepest of three plant containers at > less than 6" deep. > http://homeharvest.com/hydroponicgrowingcontainers.htm > > This site even has a page about your new pump... > http://www.4hydroponics.com/grow_room/dualDiaphragmPump.asp with a lower > price than what you paid also. Sorry to be the bearer of bad news. I see > yours does include free shipping so maybe that will make the $54.95 > price on this page more palatable compared to the $71.88 price on eBay. > > Worse case scenario, you could probably sell it on Craigslist in the > "Grow Your Own" section. LOL I'm sure there are more of "those > kinds" of hydroponics users than folks that grow fruits and veggies. > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles > referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically > under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] > On Behalf Of kuradi8 > Sent: Friday, September 11, 2009 6:41 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Air Pumps > > After having gotten burned by the wimpy pump, overkill seemed like a > better option than another disappointment. And the 4 outlets give me > the option of adding more (sing this) tiiiiny buuuubbles if the pump > truly is up to the task. > > Both this one and the Rena are 8w. The Rena's PSI is higher. But > this one's L/min is higher. So equal, worse, better... I figured > they're pretty close. > > And believe it or not, I stayed in my meager price range. ;o) ~Kai > > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" > <GoldLenny@> > wrote: > > > > That one seems like overkill for a single tank... or were you > > planning on adding a few more now? I thought you were looking at > > the low-$40's or lower price range. ;-) > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles > > referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, > > alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > Kai wrote: > > > > For those of you who might remember my air pump dilemma, > > > > Well, I took the plunge. I'd had my eye on a Rena 400 but got a > > good deal on one of these instead. This is not where I got the pump > > from but this ebay listing describes it best: > > http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=300343244939 > > > > It's for my 55g and will replace a very disappointingly wimpy > > Whisper-60. I hope I chose well. Did I? > > ~Kai > ------------------------------------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the home page. Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com to receive the digest, which includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com for the No E-Mail option where you will still be able to read messages on the group and post replies. Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com to receive individual e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 43354	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 9/11/2009
Subject: Re: Regarding new tank - In addition to. . .

But Amber, was the spelling on the boxes "Reena" or "Rina"... like them Rolox Watches you can buy real cheap on the streets of N.Y.??? Just kidding.. I know you got the real deal... I hope! ;-) Maybe they misspelled contiguous as continental. It does start with the same first five letters and you know how schools are nowadays... or maybe they used spell-check that suggested a word before they were finished typing... and it looked right. ;-) Not to mention that so many maps do show Alaska as a big island just north of Hawaii, as you mentioned. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Amber Berglund Sent: Friday, September 11, 2009 9:39 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Regarding new tank - In addition to. . . I'm also a big proponent of the Rena Filstar canister filters, they are fairly easy to clean compared to most canister filters and after you prime it for the very first time you never have to again, all you do is unplug the filter, unplug the hoses from the base (they have a lever to shut off the water flow and unhook the hoses so water won't pour out onto the floor). Then you do your filter cleaning, refill with fresh tank water (not tap water, make sure you remember this as it will kill off your nitrifying bacteria in your filter). Then hook it all back up and plug it in, viola! :) LOL. I'd switch all my filters over to the rena filstars if I could switch for free ;) Also if you watch on ebay you can find cheap deals for the rena xp 4's (which is the one I would recommend for you). I got 2 of them for less than half of what you'd pay on a retail site, and they were only dented boxes, everything inside the box was still sealed up in plastic still and unused. Just make sure to read the descriptions carefully, especially if you're in a place that's not easy to ship to (like I am), as some ebay sellers will only ship to the continental US (I'm still wondering if they look at a map, Alaska is really attached to the northern continent, it's not floating off by hawaii like it looks like on most maps ;) LOL. Amber Cee Jaye wrote: > > > Thanks much Lenny!! I will check those articles out in just a few > mins. . I m winding down & getting ready to settle & watch TV, so I > will do that when I get ready for bed;) Tara > > -------Original Message------- > > From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny > Date: 9/11/2009 8:54:36 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Regarding new tank - In addition to. . . > > Keep your current filter and just add a second filter system. I don't > know what you have now but I'd make the second filter system a Rena > Filstar canister filter which would do a better job of handling the > weekly waste output of an larger Oscar. Put one filter system on each > end of the tank to ensure adequate water circulation throughout the > tank. I'm pretty sure Oscars LOVE to dig in the gravel, which is why > they do not do well with plants but they still like to dig and > redecorate their tanks on a regular basis. See those two good profile > articles I gave you links to in one of my earlier replies... one on > Mongabay.com and one on Cichlid-Forum.com. > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> (Links to any articles referenced in > above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels > and also under Archives by Year, Month) > > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On Behalf Of Cee Jaye > Sent: Friday, September 11, 2009 7:30 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Regarding new tank - In addition to. . . > > Well, I guess when the time comes to move him to a larger tank, it > will also require purchasing a new filter??:) So, my next question is > this. . . > What > filtration systems do you recommend for a 55 or 75 gal tank housing 1 > Oscar? > My other thing is. . . I have nothing in his tank. He has no stones or > anything. Should he HAVE stones? Is it necessary? Thanks! Tara > > > > ------------------------------------ > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank > You. > ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , > .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT > that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the > original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: > old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , > .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. > > If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of unsubscribing, > you can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My > Membership" on the home page. > > Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:aquaticlife-digest%40yahoogroups.com> to receive the digest, > which includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email > > Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:aquaticlife-nomail%40yahoogroups.com> for the No E-Mail option > where you will still be able to read messages on the group and post > replies. > > Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:aquaticlife-normal%40yahoogroups.com> to receive individual > e-mails Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > ------------------------------------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the home page. Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com to receive the digest, which includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com for the No E-Mail option where you will still be able to read messages on the group and post replies. Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com to receive individual e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 43355	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 9/11/2009
Subject: Re: Regarding new tank - In addition to. . .

Yeah, I wish i was on a big island just north of Hawaii ;) Someone needs to inform the president that we should move the entire state of Alaska just north of Hawaii now ;) And yes I got the real deal on the Rena Filstar Xp 4's ;) LOL. And I remember my geography classes as a kid, and I also remember them telling us, "Now Alaska is not really down here by Hawaii, but they couldn't fit it on the map properly in it's normal place" LOL. Talk about the government saving money, let's just move the whole map around while we're at it, we could put Australia up between the US and Europe and no one would know any better ;) Heck my mom couldn't even tell me where Georgia was inside the US, let alone anything outside the US, LOL. Amber Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > > > But Amber, was the spelling on the boxes "Reena" or "Rina"... like them > Rolox Watches you can buy real cheap on the streets of N.Y.??? Just > kidding.. I know you got the real deal... I hope! ;-) > > Maybe they misspelled contiguous as continental. It does start with the > same first five letters and you know how schools are nowadays... or maybe > they used spell-check that suggested a word before they were finished > typing... and it looked right. ;-) Not to mention that so many maps do > show > Alaska as a big island just north of Hawaii, as you mentioned. > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right > side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On > Behalf Of Amber Berglund > Sent: Friday, September 11, 2009 9:39 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Regarding new tank - In addition to. . . > > I'm also a big proponent of the Rena Filstar canister filters, they are > fairly easy to clean compared to most canister filters and after you prime > it for the very first time you never have to again, all you do is > unplug the > filter, unplug the hoses from the base (they have a lever to shut off the > water flow and unhook the hoses so water won't pour out onto the floor). > Then you do your filter cleaning, refill with fresh tank water (not tap > water, make sure you remember this as it will kill off your nitrifying > bacteria in your filter). Then hook it all back up and plug it in, > viola! :) > LOL. > I'd switch all my filters over to the rena filstars if I could switch for > free ;) Also if you watch on ebay you can find cheap deals for the rena xp > 4's (which is the one I would recommend for you). I got 2 of them for less > than half of what you'd pay on a retail site, and they were only dented > boxes, everything inside the box was still sealed up in plastic still and > unused. Just make sure to read the descriptions carefully, especially if > you're in a place that's not easy to ship to (like I am), as some ebay > sellers will only ship to the continental US (I'm still wondering if they > look at a map, Alaska is really attached to the northern continent, > it's not > floating off by hawaii like it looks like on most maps ;) LOL. > > Amber > > Cee Jaye wrote: > > > > > > Thanks much Lenny!! I will check those articles out in just a few > > mins. . I m winding down & getting ready to settle & watch TV, so I > > will do that when I get ready for bed;) Tara > > > > -------Original Message------- > > > > From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny > > Date: 9/11/2009 8:54:36 PM > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Regarding new tank - In addition to. . . > > > > Keep your current filter and just add a second filter system. I don't > > know what you have now but I'd make the second filter system a Rena > > Filstar canister filter which would do a better job of handling the > > weekly waste output of an larger Oscar. Put one filter system on each > > end of the tank to ensure adequate water circulation throughout the > > tank. I'm pretty sure Oscars LOVE to dig in the gravel, which is why > > they do not do well with plants but they still like to dig and > > redecorate their tanks on a regular basis. See those two good profile > > articles I gave you links to in one of my earlier replies... one on > > Mongabay.com and one on Cichlid-Forum.com. > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>> > (Links to any articles referenced in > > above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels > > and also under Archives by Year, Month) > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On Behalf Of Cee Jaye > > Sent: Friday, September 11, 2009 7:30 PM > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Regarding new tank - In addition to. . . > > > > Well, I guess when the time comes to move him to a larger tank, it > > will also require purchasing a new filter??:) So, my next question is > > this. . . > > What > > filtration systems do you recommend for a 55 or 75 gal tank housing 1 > > Oscar? > > My other thing is. . . I have nothing in his tank. He has no stones or > > anything. Should he HAVE stones? Is it necessary? Thanks! Tara > > > > > > > > ------------------------------------ > > > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank > > You. > > ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , > > .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT > > that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the > > original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: > > old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , > > .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. > > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. > > > > If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of unsubscribing, > > you can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My > > Membership" on the home page. > > > > Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:aquaticlife-digest%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:aquaticlife-digest%40yahoogroups.com> to receive the digest, > > which includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email > > > > Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:aquaticlife-nomail%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:aquaticlife-nomail%40yahoogroups.com> for the No E-Mail option > > where you will still be able to read messages on the group and post > > replies. > > > > Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:aquaticlife-normal%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:aquaticlife-normal%40yahoogroups.com> to receive individual > > e-mails Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > > > ------------------------------------ > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. > ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> > PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to > the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the > SUBJECT > LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- > <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. > > If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of unsubscribing, you > can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the > home page. > > Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:aquaticlife-digest%40yahoogroups.com> to receive the digest, which > includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email > > Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:aquaticlife-nomail%40yahoogroups.com> for the No E-Mail option > where > you will still be able to read messages on the group and post replies. > > Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:aquaticlife-normal%40yahoogroups.com> to receive individual > e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 43356	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 9/11/2009
Subject: Re: Air Pumps

It depends on how many things you are operating. Back in the "old days"... man that has been coming up a lot lately... folks had air powered UGF filters, sponge filters, air stones, bubble wands and decorations so that some of their tanks looked more like a hot tub than a natural water body. The Rena Air 400 is rated for more than just a 40G. It has a range. This website http://www.aquariumguys.com/renaairpump4.html says "The Rena Air Pump 400 is for aquariums up to 150 gallons that are 36" deep with up to 16-1" airstones." I stated earlier in the thread that I have a Rena Air 300 (with only one air output) and it powered a 2' bubble wand on my 65G tank and I'm pretty sure I had to throttle back the air volume to keep the weighted bubble wand from wanting to float away. "The Rena Air 300 is for aquariums up to 75 gallons that are 24" deep with up to 8-1" airstones.", according to http://www.aquariumguys.com/renaairpump3.html Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Amber Berglund Sent: Friday, September 11, 2009 10:02 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: Air Pumps LOL, guess I should learn to read descriptions, I noticed on the site it says that the 400 model's and higher have the knobs, so I definitely have a 400 model, and it puts out plenty of bubbles for my 125 gallon tank, and it's only recommended for 40 gallons (hmm, wonder why?), anyone have any idea why they recommend such low tank volumes? Mine works just fine. Amber Amber Berglund wrote: > I use one of these Air pumps in my 125 gallon tank and it seems to do > the trick to put out enough bubbles in my 4 foot bubble "stick" (one > of those bendable bubble wands). I have another ornament hooked up to > it but it stopped putting out bubbles, I think it's clogged, so I just > turned off the valve and only have the bubble wand bubbling instead. > http://www.drsfostersmith.com/product/prod_display.cfm?c=3578+3669+197 > 79&pcatid=19779 > > It has a handy knob on the top to either turn the pressure up or down, > if you don't need as much pressure for your bubbles. > I'm not exactly sure which model I have, but it only has one outlet on > it, so it's one of the 3 "lesser" models listed, but I know it's not > the cheapest one, I got either a 300 or a 400, can't remember now, > since I bought it a year ago ;) LOL. > It's a good sale going on though. > > Amber > > Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: >> >> >> I hope this one has enough Ummmph to push air to the bottom of your >> tank. >> That's where the PSI comes in handy. How much higher PSI rating did >> the Rena have? Since it was designed for hydroponics, I'm not sure >> their water systems are very deep... in fact, I think they are rather >> shallow trays, but I could be wrong. This page shows the deepest of >> three plant containers at less than 6" deep. >> http://homeharvest.com/hydroponicgrowingcontainers.htm >> <http://homeharvest.com/hydroponicgrowingcontainers.htm> >> >> This site even has a page about your new pump... >> http://www.4hydroponics.com/grow_room/dualDiaphragmPump.asp >> <http://www.4hydroponics.com/grow_room/dualDiaphragmPump.asp> with a >> lower price than what you paid also. Sorry to be the bearer of bad >> news. I see yours does include free shipping so maybe that will make >> the $54.95 price on this page more palatable compared to the $71.88 >> price on eBay. >> >> Worse case scenario, you could probably sell it on Craigslist in the >> "Grow Your Own" section. LOL I'm sure there are more of "those kinds" >> of hydroponics users than folks that grow fruits and veggies. >> >> Lenny Vasbinder >> Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com >> <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> (Links to any articles referenced in >> above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels >> and also under Archives by Year, >> Month) >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com >> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> >> [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com >> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On Behalf Of kuradi8 >> Sent: Friday, September 11, 2009 6:41 PM >> To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com >> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> >> Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Air Pumps >> >> After having gotten burned by the wimpy pump, overkill seemed like a >> better option than another disappointment. And the 4 outlets give me >> the option of adding more (sing this) tiiiiny buuuubbles if the pump >> truly is up to the task. >> >> Both this one and the Rena are 8w. The Rena's PSI is higher. But this >> one's L/min is higher. So equal, worse, better... I figured they're >> pretty close. >> >> And believe it or not, I stayed in my meager price range. ;o) ~Kai >> >> --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com >> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>, "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" >> <GoldLenny@...> >> wrote: >> > >> > That one seems like overkill for a single tank... or were you >> > planning on adding a few more now? I thought you were looking at >> > the low-$40's or lower price range. ;-) >> > >> > Lenny Vasbinder >> > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com >> <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> (Links to any articles >> > referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, >> > alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) >> > >> > >> > -----Original Message----- >> > Kai wrote: >> > >> > For those of you who might remember my air pump dilemma, >> > >> > Well, I took the plunge. I'd had my eye on a Rena 400 but got a >> > good deal on one of these instead. This is not where I got the pump >> > from but this ebay listing describes it best: >> > http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=300343244939 >> <http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=300343244939> >> > >> > It's for my 55g and will replace a very disappointingly wimpy >> > Whisper-60. I hope I chose well. Did I? >> > ~Kai

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 43357	From: Heather	Date: 9/11/2009
Subject: Picked up my 65 gallon tonight

Well I went and picked up my 65 gallon tank tonight and a stand that is actually for a 125 gallon but it was free and has lower cabinets and drawers which is awesome. Our local fish guy is a great guy. I also bought a Marineland Pro Series Bio Wheel Power Filter 400 for a great price which he told me was a great filter but that I might eventually need a second one depending on what kind of fish we decide on but I want this to be a heavily planted tank so not sure I will need a second filter.  Also picked up another 29 for very cheap which I will set up for my albino clawed frog.  So all in all the guppies and platies with stay in their 29 and the frog will be switched over from a 10 to a 29 and in a few months we will start to add fish to the new tank. We will not be setting up the new tank until we clean, sand down and restain the stand and then will take it through the fishless cycling and then we will begin to add fish. My fiance really wants to go with cichlids but Im not so sure thats what I want. I want to be able to have angels as I really like angels and my favorite of course is danios and I want them and cichlids would make that impossible so we are still discussing what type of fish to put in so it may be quite some time before we make any decisions and actually add fish. I also would like this to be a planted tank so I will probably start on that part right away after we get it all set up. I can go ahead and begin to put aquatic plants in right away after it is set up...right? I always added my plants quite a bit after my fish in the past and have never had a tank as planted as I would like this one to be so I would love some advice on the easiest aquatic plants to care for in a heavily planted tank and what else I would need to keep them healthy and well living...lol!  I know I have rambled on and on but I am excited about the new tank and about getting plants into and eventually fish and would love any suggestions on the plant topic because I am still very new at the whole aquatic plant thing. My frog tank has a few plants but I havent had to do much for them and my tanks in the past had some that my pleco usually ended up shredding which wasnt so pretty....lol and Ihad some duckweed in one of my 55's which took over and I didnt like that much.  Anyway thanks for listening to me ramble about my new tanks and again any advice, tips, suggestions are more than welcome. Heather [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 43358	From: Kevin E Boyle	Date: 9/11/2009
Subject: Re: Air Pumps

i think you will be okay if you keep a close eye on your airstone(s), they can clog rather quickly depending on the circumstances and the volume of air will go down quickly. also excessive back pressure will degrade the life of the pump (diaphram) . be sure to bleed the excess air, and i would think there will be a fair amount. on the other hand with that much volume you might be able to dive (as long as you kept to shallow water) :) With a thousand lies And a good disguise Hit em' right between the eyes Hit em' right between the eyes When you walk away, Nothing more to say. See the lightning in your eyes See em' running for their lives ><(((*> ><)))*> ><(((*> ----- Original Message ----- From: kuradi8 To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Friday, September 11, 2009 09:26 PM Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Air Pumps Gosh, I really wish someone had said I need to look at PSI a few days ago when I asked which of the specs is most important. Now that I know that the answer is PSI, I can kinda infer it by looking back at a couple of the replies but it really didn't sink in at the time. Kevin's reply spoke of volume and pressure but I didn't know which was more important. And Lenny, you said, "It takes work to push air under water so a deeper tank needs a much stronger air pump. It's nothing to do with watts or liters per minute if the pump can't push the air down to the depths that you might need.?" OK, I guess now that I know you meant PSI, that's what you meant. But I wish you'd said so in so many words. Unfortunately, process of elimination didn't sink in to my feeble mind. The Rena supposedly maxes out at 4.3psi and the Hydroponics at 3psi. The Rena has 2 outlets and the Hydro has 4 (but they can be switched off) so do I have to divide that output by the number of outlets that are being used? Crap, I'da been better off with a pair of those single-outlet Chinese units with 4.35psi. I dunno... can I TRUST their specs? Crap. Too soon old, too late smart. I hope this doesn't turn out to be yet MORE money down the drain. This is me snarling, growling and spitting sparks. ~Kai --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@...> wrote: > > I hope this one has enough Ummmph to push air to the bottom of your tank. > That's where the PSI comes in handy. How much higher PSI rating did the > Rena have? Since it was designed for hydroponics, I'm not sure their water > systems are very deep... in fact, I think they are rather shallow trays, but > I could be wrong. This page shows the deepest of three plant containers at > less than 6" deep. http://homeharvest.com/hydroponicgrowingcontainers.htm > > This site even has a page about your new pump... > http://www.4hydroponics.com/grow_room/dualDiaphragmPump.asp with a lower > price than what you paid also. Sorry to be the bearer of bad news. I see > yours does include free shipping so maybe that will make the $54.95 price on > this page more palatable compared to the $71.88 price on eBay. > > Worse case scenario, you could probably sell it on Craigslist in the "Grow > Your Own" section. LOL I'm sure there are more of "those kinds" of > hydroponics users than folks that grow fruits and veggies. > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right > side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On > Behalf Of kuradi8 > Sent: Friday, September 11, 2009 6:41 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Air Pumps > > After having gotten burned by the wimpy pump, overkill seemed like a better > option than another disappointment. And the 4 outlets give me the option of > adding more (sing this) tiiiiny buuuubbles if the pump truly is up to the > task. > > Both this one and the Rena are 8w. The Rena's PSI is higher. But this > one's L/min is higher. So equal, worse, better... I figured they're pretty > close. > > And believe it or not, I stayed in my meager price range. ;o) ~Kai > > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@> > wrote: > > > > That one seems like overkill for a single tank... or were you planning > > on adding a few more now? I thought you were looking at the low-$40's > > or lower price range. ;-) > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles > > referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically > > under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > Kai wrote: > > > > For those of you who might remember my air pump dilemma, > > > > Well, I took the plunge. I'd had my eye on a Rena 400 but got a good > > deal on one of these instead. This is not where I got the pump from > > but this ebay listing describes it best: > > http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=300343244939 > > > > It's for my 55g and will replace a very disappointingly wimpy > > Whisper-60. I hope I chose well. Did I? > > ~Kai > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 43359	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 9/11/2009
Subject: Re: Picked up my 65 gallon tonight

Don't those Albino clawed frogs get pretty big? I thought they needed big tanks? I have a dwarf frog, not one of the bigger fish eating albino clawed frogs, I hope you don't keep your frog with any fish, as they will eat them eventually ;) Congrats on the new tank, sounds like you got a good deal on it :) Amber Heather wrote: > > > Well I went and picked up my 65 gallon tank tonight and a stand that > is actually for a 125 gallon but it was free and has lower cabinets > and drawers which is awesome. Our local fish guy is a great guy. I > also bought a Marineland Pro Series Bio Wheel Power Filter 400 for a > great price which he told me was a great filter but that I might > eventually need a second one depending on what kind of fish we decide > on but I want this to be a heavily planted tank so not sure I will > need a second filter. > Also picked up another 29 for very cheap which I will set up for my > albino clawed frog. > So all in all the guppies and platies with stay in their 29 and the > frog will be switched over from a 10 to a 29 and in a few months we > will start to add fish to the new tank. We will not be setting up the > new tank until we clean, sand down and restain the stand and then will > take it through the fishless cycling and then we will begin to add > fish. My fiance really wants to go with cichlids but Im not so sure > thats what I want. I want to be able to have angels as I really like > angels and my favorite of course is danios and I want them and > cichlids would make that impossible so we are still discussing what > type of fish to put in so it may be quite some time before we make any > decisions and actually add fish. I also would like this to be a > planted tank so I will probably start on that part right away after we > get it all set up. I can go ahead and begin to put aquatic plants in > right away after it is set up...right? I always added my plants quite > a bit > after my fish in the past and have never had a tank as planted as I > would like this one to be so I would love some advice on the easiest > aquatic plants to care for in a heavily planted tank and what else I > would need to keep them healthy and well living...lol! > I know I have rambled on and on but I am excited about the new tank > and about getting plants into and eventually fish and would love any > suggestions on the plant topic because I am still very new at the > whole aquatic plant thing. My frog tank has a few plants but I havent > had to do much for them and my tanks in the past had some that my > pleco usually ended up shredding which wasnt so pretty....lol and Ihad > some duckweed in one of my 55's which took over and I didnt like that > much. > Anyway thanks for listening to me ramble about my new tanks and again > any advice, tips, suggestions are more than welcome. > > Heather > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 43360	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 9/11/2009
Subject: Re: Air Pumps

How about with a 4 foot air stone? ;) LOL. I have my rena air 400 running only one airstone, but it's 4 feet long, not 16 inches;) I also have it throttled back a little as well, it can put out bigger bubbles but I prefer smaller bubbles, and so do the fish. Can you say "Eek the bubble is coming for me?" LOL. Not all fish enjoy bubbles, my rams seem to enjoy playing in the bubbles though, and the Severum seems to ignore them mostly. Amber Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > > > It depends on how many things you are operating. Back in the "old days"... > man that has been coming up a lot lately... folks had air powered UGF > filters, sponge filters, air stones, bubble wands and decorations so that > some of their tanks looked more like a hot tub than a natural water body. > > The Rena Air 400 is rated for more than just a 40G. It has a range. This > website http://www.aquariumguys.com/renaairpump4.html > <http://www.aquariumguys.com/renaairpump4.html> says "The Rena Air > Pump 400 is for aquariums up to 150 gallons that are 36" deep with up to > 16-1" airstones." I stated earlier in the thread that I have a Rena > Air 300 > (with only one air output) and it powered a 2' bubble wand on my 65G tank > and I'm pretty sure I had to throttle back the air volume to keep the > weighted bubble wand from wanting to float away. "The Rena Air 300 is for > aquariums up to 75 gallons that are 24" deep with up to 8-1" airstones.", > according to http://www.aquariumguys.com/renaairpump3.html > <http://www.aquariumguys.com/renaairpump3.html> > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right > side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On > Behalf Of Amber Berglund > Sent: Friday, September 11, 2009 10:02 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: Air Pumps > > LOL, guess I should learn to read descriptions, I noticed on the site it > says that the 400 model's and higher have the knobs, so I definitely > have a > 400 model, and it puts out plenty of bubbles for my 125 gallon tank, and > it's only recommended for 40 gallons (hmm, wonder why?), anyone have any > idea why they recommend such low tank volumes? Mine works just fine. > > Amber > > Amber Berglund wrote: > > I use one of these Air pumps in my 125 gallon tank and it seems to do > > the trick to put out enough bubbles in my 4 foot bubble "stick" (one > > of those bendable bubble wands). I have another ornament hooked up to > > it but it stopped putting out bubbles, I think it's clogged, so I just > > turned off the valve and only have the bubble wand bubbling instead. > > > http://www.drsfostersmith.com/product/prod_display.cfm?c=3578+3669+197 > <http://www.drsfostersmith.com/product/prod_display.cfm?c=3578+3669+197> > > 79&pcatid=19779 > > > > It has a handy knob on the top to either turn the pressure up or down, > > if you don't need as much pressure for your bubbles. > > I'm not exactly sure which model I have, but it only has one outlet on > > it, so it's one of the 3 "lesser" models listed, but I know it's not > > the cheapest one, I got either a 300 or a 400, can't remember now, > > since I bought it a year ago ;) LOL. > > It's a good sale going on though. > > > > Amber > > > > Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > >> > >> > >> I hope this one has enough Ummmph to push air to the bottom of your > >> tank. > >> That's where the PSI comes in handy. How much higher PSI rating did > >> the Rena have? Since it was designed for hydroponics, I'm not sure > >> their water systems are very deep... in fact, I think they are rather > >> shallow trays, but I could be wrong. This page shows the deepest of > >> three plant containers at less than 6" deep. > >> http://homeharvest.com/hydroponicgrowingcontainers.htm > <http://homeharvest.com/hydroponicgrowingcontainers.htm> > >> <http://homeharvest.com/hydroponicgrowingcontainers.htm > <http://homeharvest.com/hydroponicgrowingcontainers.htm>> > >> > >> This site even has a page about your new pump... > >> http://www.4hydroponics.com/grow_room/dualDiaphragmPump.asp > <http://www.4hydroponics.com/grow_room/dualDiaphragmPump.asp> > >> <http://www.4hydroponics.com/grow_room/dualDiaphragmPump.asp > <http://www.4hydroponics.com/grow_room/dualDiaphragmPump.asp>> with a > >> lower price than what you paid also. Sorry to be the bearer of bad > >> news. I see yours does include free shipping so maybe that will make > >> the $54.95 price on this page more palatable compared to the $71.88 > >> price on eBay. > >> > >> Worse case scenario, you could probably sell it on Craigslist in the > >> "Grow Your Own" section. LOL I'm sure there are more of "those kinds" > >> of hydroponics users than folks that grow fruits and veggies. > >> > >> Lenny Vasbinder > >> Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > >> <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>> > (Links to any articles referenced in > >> above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels > >> and also under Archives by Year, > >> Month) > >> > >> -----Original Message----- > >> From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > >> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > >> [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > >> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On Behalf Of kuradi8 > >> Sent: Friday, September 11, 2009 6:41 PM > >> To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > >> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > >> Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Air Pumps > >> > >> After having gotten burned by the wimpy pump, overkill seemed like a > >> better option than another disappointment. And the 4 outlets give me > >> the option of adding more (sing this) tiiiiny buuuubbles if the pump > >> truly is up to the task. > >> > >> Both this one and the Rena are 8w. The Rena's PSI is higher. But this > >> one's L/min is higher. So equal, worse, better... I figured they're > >> pretty close. > >> > >> And believe it or not, I stayed in my meager price range. ;o) ~Kai > >> > >> --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > >> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>, "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" > >> <GoldLenny@...> > >> wrote: > >> > > >> > That one seems like overkill for a single tank... or were you > >> > planning on adding a few more now? I thought you were looking at > >> > the low-$40's or lower price range. ;-) > >> > > >> > Lenny Vasbinder > >> > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > >> <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>> > (Links to any articles > >> > referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, > >> > alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) > >> > > >> > > >> > -----Original Message----- > >> > Kai wrote: > >> > > >> > For those of you who might remember my air pump dilemma, > >> > > >> > Well, I took the plunge. I'd had my eye on a Rena 400 but got a > >> > good deal on one of these instead. This is not where I got the pump > >> > from but this ebay listing describes it best: > >> > http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=300343244939 > <http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=300343244939> > >> <http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=300343244939 > <http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=300343244939>> > >> > > >> > It's for my 55g and will replace a very disappointingly wimpy > >> > Whisper-60. I hope I chose well. Did I? > >> > ~Kai > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 43361	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 9/11/2009
Subject: Re: Picked up my 65 gallon tonight

Did you say your LFS sold you the stand and the tank? Do they have the same foot print? The reason I ask is that most aquarium stands are designed for the four sides to carry the weight of the aquarium since the aquariums stand displaces all of the weight on the four bottom-sides of the tank's frame. If your stand is 60" x 24" and your tank is 48" x 18", then the stand's top may not be designed to hold your tank. The top may just be more of a decorative piece of wood or particle board where the stand is designed for the tank's four bottom-side framing sections to sit directly above the upright supports of the stand. This is another one of them physics problems that I understand in my head but may not be able to explain to others properly. Hopefully your LFS guy knows about this design feature in aquarium stands. If you can give me dimensions (mainly the footprint - L x W dimensions) of the tank and stand and the manufacturer and/or model number of the stand, I would be able to check this out and advise better. I just don't want you to wake up to a disaster one day. BTW... Angelfish are cichlids so you could get them and he should be happy. Of course, he probably wants African Cichlids and Angelfish are S. American Cichlids. If that is the case, then they would not mix, although some species might work but it wouldn't be the best thing for the fish since their water parameter preferences are much different. As far as easy plants, see my blog article, "Planted Tank - So You Want A Planted Tank?" which has LOTS of info and links to other sites with LOTS more info for beginners who want a planted tank including lots of choices of good beginner plants that are easy to grow. If he also likes the idea of a planted tank, then your Angelfish Cichlids and maybe a S. American Biotope would be the way to go since African Cichlids like rocks and lots of rocks... not plants. I hope you get this reply. I know you recently said you were not getting email from the group properly... dang Yahoo! Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Heather Sent: Friday, September 11, 2009 10:22 PM To: aquatic life Subject: [AquaticLife] Picked up my 65 gallon tonight  Well I went and picked up my 65 gallon tank tonight and a stand that is actually for a 125 gallon but it was free and has lower cabinets and drawers which is awesome. Our local fish guy is a great guy. I also bought a Marineland Pro Series Bio Wheel Power Filter 400 for a great price which he told me was a great filter but that I might eventually need a second one depending on what kind of fish we decide on but I want this to be a heavily planted tank so not sure I will need a second filter.  Also picked up another 29 for very cheap which I will set up for my albino clawed frog.  So all in all the guppies and platies with stay in their 29 and the frog will be switched over from a 10 to a 29 and in a few months we will start to add fish to the new tank. We will not be setting up the new tank until we clean, sand down and restain the stand and then will take it through the fishless cycling and then we will begin to add fish. My fiance really wants to go with cichlids but Im not so sure thats what I want. I want to be able to have angels as I really like angels and my favorite of course is danios and I want them and cichlids would make that impossible so we are still discussing what type of fish to put in so it may be quite some time before we make any decisions and actually add fish. I also would like this to be a planted tank so I will probably start on that part right away after we get it all set up. I can go ahead and begin to put aquatic plants in right away after it is set up...right? I always added my plants quite a bit after my fish in the past and have never had a tank as planted as I would like this one to be so I would love some advice on the easiest aquatic plants to care for in a heavily planted tank and what else I would need to keep them healthy and well living...lol!  I know I have rambled on and on but I am excited about the new tank and about getting plants into and eventually fish and would love any suggestions on the plant topic because I am still very new at the whole aquatic plant thing. My frog tank has a few plants but I havent had to do much for them and my tanks in the past had some that my pleco usually ended up shredding which wasnt so pretty....lol and Ihad some duckweed in one of my 55's which took over and I didnt like that much.  Anyway thanks for listening to me ramble about my new tanks and again any advice, tips, suggestions are more than welcome. Heather

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 43362	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 9/11/2009
Subject: Re: Air Pumps

Well, a 48" bubble wand does not have as much surface area as 16 1" diameter air stones. The bubble wand probably has a couple of holes wide, running the entire length of the wand where the 1" diameter stones might have the same number of holes, but all bunched up together. I would venture to say that the 16 1" air stones have a LOT more surface area, capable of producing bubbles, than the 48" bubble wand. I thought you decided you have the Rena Air 300 since you only have one output.. right???... or do you have two outlets built into the pump or do you have a splitter valve that was going to both of your bubble decorations. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Amber Berglund Sent: Friday, September 11, 2009 10:51 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: Air Pumps How about with a 4 foot air stone? ;) LOL. I have my rena air 400 running only one airstone, but it's 4 feet long, not 16 inches;) I also have it throttled back a little as well, it can put out bigger bubbles but I prefer smaller bubbles, and so do the fish. Can you say "Eek the bubble is coming for me?" LOL. Not all fish enjoy bubbles, my rams seem to enjoy playing in the bubbles though, and the Severum seems to ignore them mostly. Amber Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > > > It depends on how many things you are operating. Back in the "old days"... > man that has been coming up a lot lately... folks had air powered UGF > filters, sponge filters, air stones, bubble wands and decorations so > that some of their tanks looked more like a hot tub than a natural water body. > > The Rena Air 400 is rated for more than just a 40G. It has a range. > This website http://www.aquariumguys.com/renaairpump4.html > <http://www.aquariumguys.com/renaairpump4.html> says "The Rena Air > Pump 400 is for aquariums up to 150 gallons that are 36" deep with up > to 16-1" airstones." I stated earlier in the thread that I have a Rena > Air 300 (with only one air output) and it powered a 2' bubble wand on > my 65G tank and I'm pretty sure I had to throttle back the air volume > to keep the weighted bubble wand from wanting to float away. "The Rena > Air 300 is for aquariums up to 75 gallons that are 24" deep with up to > 8-1" airstones.", according to > http://www.aquariumguys.com/renaairpump3.html > <http://www.aquariumguys.com/renaairpump3.html> > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> (Links to any articles referenced in > above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels > and also under Archives by Year, Month) > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On Behalf Of Amber Berglund > Sent: Friday, September 11, 2009 10:02 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: Air Pumps > > LOL, guess I should learn to read descriptions, I noticed on the site > it says that the 400 model's and higher have the knobs, so I > definitely have a 400 model, and it puts out plenty of bubbles for my > 125 gallon tank, and it's only recommended for 40 gallons (hmm, wonder > why?), anyone have any idea why they recommend such low tank volumes? > Mine works just fine. > > Amber > > Amber Berglund wrote: > > I use one of these Air pumps in my 125 gallon tank and it seems to > > do the trick to put out enough bubbles in my 4 foot bubble "stick" > > (one of those bendable bubble wands). I have another ornament hooked > > up to it but it stopped putting out bubbles, I think it's clogged, > > so I just turned off the valve and only have the bubble wand bubbling instead. > > > http://www.drsfostersmith.com/product/prod_display.cfm?c=3578+3669+197 > <http://www.drsfostersmith.com/product/prod_display.cfm?c=3578+3669+19 > 7> > > 79&pcatid=19779 > > > > It has a handy knob on the top to either turn the pressure up or > > down, if you don't need as much pressure for your bubbles. > > I'm not exactly sure which model I have, but it only has one outlet > > on it, so it's one of the 3 "lesser" models listed, but I know it's > > not the cheapest one, I got either a 300 or a 400, can't remember > > now, since I bought it a year ago ;) LOL. > > It's a good sale going on though. > > > > Amber > > > > Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > >> > >> > >> I hope this one has enough Ummmph to push air to the bottom of your > >> tank. > >> That's where the PSI comes in handy. How much higher PSI rating did > >> the Rena have? Since it was designed for hydroponics, I'm not sure > >> their water systems are very deep... in fact, I think they are > >> rather shallow trays, but I could be wrong. This page shows the > >> deepest of three plant containers at less than 6" deep. > >> http://homeharvest.com/hydroponicgrowingcontainers.htm > <http://homeharvest.com/hydroponicgrowingcontainers.htm> > >> <http://homeharvest.com/hydroponicgrowingcontainers.htm > <http://homeharvest.com/hydroponicgrowingcontainers.htm>> > >> > >> This site even has a page about your new pump... > >> http://www.4hydroponics.com/grow_room/dualDiaphragmPump.asp > <http://www.4hydroponics.com/grow_room/dualDiaphragmPump.asp> > >> <http://www.4hydroponics.com/grow_room/dualDiaphragmPump.asp > <http://www.4hydroponics.com/grow_room/dualDiaphragmPump.asp>> with a > >> lower price than what you paid also. Sorry to be the bearer of bad > >> news. I see yours does include free shipping so maybe that will > >> make the $54.95 price on this page more palatable compared to the > >> $71.88 price on eBay. > >> > >> Worse case scenario, you could probably sell it on Craigslist in > >> the "Grow Your Own" section. LOL I'm sure there are more of "those kinds" > >> of hydroponics users than folks that grow fruits and veggies. > >> > >> Lenny Vasbinder > >> Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > >> <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>> > (Links to any articles referenced in > >> above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under > >> Labels and also under Archives by Year, > >> Month) > >> > >> -----Original Message----- > >> From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > >> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > >> [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > >> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On Behalf Of kuradi8 > >> Sent: Friday, September 11, 2009 6:41 PM > >> To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > >> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > >> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > >> Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Air Pumps > >> > >> After having gotten burned by the wimpy pump, overkill seemed like > >> a better option than another disappointment. And the 4 outlets give > >> me the option of adding more (sing this) tiiiiny buuuubbles if the > >> pump truly is up to the task. > >> > >> Both this one and the Rena are 8w. The Rena's PSI is higher. But > >> this one's L/min is higher. So equal, worse, better... I figured > >> they're pretty close. > >> > >> And believe it or not, I stayed in my meager price range. ;o) ~Kai > >> > >> --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > >> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>, "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" > >> <GoldLenny@...> > >> wrote: > >> > > >> > That one seems like overkill for a single tank... or were you > >> > planning on adding a few more now? I thought you were looking at > >> > the low-$40's or lower price range. ;-) > >> > > >> > Lenny Vasbinder > >> > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > >> <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>> > (Links to any articles > >> > referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, > >> > alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, > >> > Month) > >> > > >> > > >> > -----Original Message----- > >> > Kai wrote: > >> > > >> > For those of you who might remember my air pump dilemma, > >> > > >> > Well, I took the plunge. I'd had my eye on a Rena 400 but got a > >> > good deal on one of these instead. This is not where I got the > >> > pump from but this ebay listing describes it best: > >> > http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=300343244939 > <http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=300343244939> > >> <http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=300343244939 > <http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=300343244939>> > >> > > >> > It's for my 55g and will replace a very disappointingly wimpy > >> > Whisper-60. I hope I chose well. Did I? > >> > ~Kai

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 43363	From: Heather	Date: 9/11/2009
Subject: Re: Picked up my 65 gallon tonight

Yes they do get big and I learned my lesson on putting fish with my frog months ago when he ate fish that I thought were way too big for him to eat. He is all alone in his tank now and will stay that way. When I did my research on albino clawed frogs most said 10 gallons per frog but this did not seem quite right since they can get big not super big but big all the same. He has grown so much since we first got him 4 months ago that I knew he needed a bigger set up and he just may end up needing something larger than the 29. Huge Hugs~Heather http://www.youravon.com/hbroschayt --- On Fri, 9/11/09, Amber Berglund <arberglund@...> wrote: From: Amber Berglund <arberglund@...> Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Picked up my 65 gallon tonight To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Date: Friday, September 11, 2009, 10:38 PM   Don't those Albino clawed frogs get pretty big? I thought they needed big tanks? I have a dwarf frog, not one of the bigger fish eating albino clawed frogs, I hope you don't keep your frog with any fish, as they will eat them eventually ;) Congrats on the new tank, sounds like you got a good deal on it :) Amber Heather wrote: > > > Well I went and picked up my 65 gallon tank tonight and a stand that > is actually for a 125 gallon but it was free and has lower cabinets > and drawers which is awesome. Our local fish guy is a great guy. I > also bought a Marineland Pro Series Bio Wheel Power Filter 400 for a > great price which he told me was a great filter but that I might > eventually need a second one depending on what kind of fish we decide > on but I want this to be a heavily planted tank so not sure I will > need a second filter. > Also picked up another 29 for very cheap which I will set up for my > albino clawed frog. > So all in all the guppies and platies with stay in their 29 and the > frog will be switched over from a 10 to a 29 and in a few months we > will start to add fish to the new tank. We will not be setting up the > new tank until we clean, sand down and restain the stand and then will > take it through the fishless cycling and then we will begin to add > fish. My fiance really wants to go with cichlids but Im not so sure > thats what I want. I want to be able to have angels as I really like > angels and my favorite of course is danios and I want them and > cichlids would make that impossible so we are still discussing what > type of fish to put in so it may be quite some time before we make any > decisions and actually add fish. I also would like this to be a > planted tank so I will probably start on that part right away after we > get it all set up. I can go ahead and begin to put aquatic plants in > right away after it is set up...right? I always added my plants quite > a bit > after my fish in the past and have never had a tank as planted as I > would like this one to be so I would love some advice on the easiest > aquatic plants to care for in a heavily planted tank and what else I > would need to keep them healthy and well living...lol! > I know I have rambled on and on but I am excited about the new tank > and about getting plants into and eventually fish and would love any > suggestions on the plant topic because I am still very new at the > whole aquatic plant thing. My frog tank has a few plants but I havent > had to do much for them and my tanks in the past had some that my > pleco usually ended up shredding which wasnt so pretty....lol and Ihad > some duckweed in one of my 55's which took over and I didnt like that > much. > Anyway thanks for listening to me ramble about my new tanks and again > any advice, tips, suggestions are more than welcome. > > Heather > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 43364	From: Heather	Date: 9/11/2009
Subject: Lenny--RE: [AquaticLife] Picked up my 65 gallon tonight

This stand is actually made out of 3/4 inch plywood which has a center cabinet with center supports on both sides of the cabinet door and then drawers on either side of the cabinet. Can I send pictures through the group...I will take some and send them through if I can.  And yes Tim wants the african cichlids and he really likes convicts which I am also not so fond of...lol! Huge Hugs~Heather http://www.youravon.com/hbroschayt --- On Fri, 9/11/09, Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@...> wrote: From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@...> Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Picked up my 65 gallon tonight To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Date: Friday, September 11, 2009, 11:00 PM   Did you say your LFS sold you the stand and the tank? Do they have the same foot print? The reason I ask is that most aquarium stands are designed for the four sides to carry the weight of the aquarium since the aquariums stand displaces all of the weight on the four bottom-sides of the tank's frame. If your stand is 60" x 24" and your tank is 48" x 18", then the stand's top may not be designed to hold your tank. The top may just be more of a decorative piece of wood or particle board where the stand is designed for the tank's four bottom-side framing sections to sit directly above the upright supports of the stand. This is another one of them physics problems that I understand in my head but may not be able to explain to others properly. Hopefully your LFS guy knows about this design feature in aquarium stands. If you can give me dimensions (mainly the footprint - L x W dimensions) of the tank and stand and the manufacturer and/or model number of the stand, I would be able to check this out and advise better. I just don't want you to wake up to a disaster one day. BTW... Angelfish are cichlids so you could get them and he should be happy. Of course, he probably wants African Cichlids and Angelfish are S. American Cichlids. If that is the case, then they would not mix, although some species might work but it wouldn't be the best thing for the fish since their water parameter preferences are much different. As far as easy plants, see my blog article, "Planted Tank - So You Want A Planted Tank?" which has LOTS of info and links to other sites with LOTS more info for beginners who want a planted tank including lots of choices of good beginner plants that are easy to grow. If he also likes the idea of a planted tank, then your Angelfish Cichlids and maybe a S. American Biotope would be the way to go since African Cichlids like rocks and lots of rocks... not plants. I hope you get this reply. I know you recently said you were not getting email from the group properly... dang Yahoo! Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com [mailto:AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com] On Behalf Of Heather Sent: Friday, September 11, 2009 10:22 PM To: aquatic life Subject: [AquaticLife] Picked up my 65 gallon tonight  Well I went and picked up my 65 gallon tank tonight and a stand that is actually for a 125 gallon but it was free and has lower cabinets and drawers which is awesome. Our local fish guy is a great guy. I also bought a Marineland Pro Series Bio Wheel Power Filter 400 for a great price which he told me was a great filter but that I might eventually need a second one depending on what kind of fish we decide on but I want this to be a heavily planted tank so not sure I will need a second filter.  Also picked up another 29 for very cheap which I will set up for my albino clawed frog.  So all in all the guppies and platies with stay in their 29 and the frog will be switched over from a 10 to a 29 and in a few months we will start to add fish to the new tank. We will not be setting up the new tank until we clean, sand down and restain the stand and then will take it through the fishless cycling and then we will begin to add fish. My fiance really wants to go with cichlids but Im not so sure thats what I want. I want to be able to have angels as I really like angels and my favorite of course is danios and I want them and cichlids would make that impossible so we are still discussing what type of fish to put in so it may be quite some time before we make any decisions and actually add fish. I also would like this to be a planted tank so I will probably start on that part right away after we get it all set up. I can go ahead and begin to put aquatic plants in right away after it is set up...right? I always added my plants quite a bit after my fish in the past and have never had a tank as planted as I would like this one to be so I would love some advice on the easiest aquatic plants to care for in a heavily planted tank and what else I would need to keep them healthy and well living...lol!  I know I have rambled on and on but I am excited about the new tank and about getting plants into and eventually fish and would love any suggestions on the plant topic because I am still very new at the whole aquatic plant thing. My frog tank has a few plants but I havent had to do much for them and my tanks in the past had some that my pleco usually ended up shredding which wasnt so pretty....lol and Ihad some duckweed in one of my 55's which took over and I didnt like that much.  Anyway thanks for listening to me ramble about my new tanks and again any advice, tips, suggestions are more than welcome. Heather [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 43365	From: Heather	Date: 9/11/2009
Subject: Re: Picked up my 65 gallon tonight

By the way we got the tank from someone other than our local fish guy and my local fish guy whose name is Mike by the way gave us the stand for free. He built a new store onto his home and has a whole new set up and no longer needed it. Huge Hugs~Heather http://www.youravon.com/hbroschayt --- On Fri, 9/11/09, Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@...> wrote: From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@...> Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Picked up my 65 gallon tonight To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Date: Friday, September 11, 2009, 11:00 PM   Did you say your LFS sold you the stand and the tank? Do they have the same foot print? The reason I ask is that most aquarium stands are designed for the four sides to carry the weight of the aquarium since the aquariums stand displaces all of the weight on the four bottom-sides of the tank's frame. If your stand is 60" x 24" and your tank is 48" x 18", then the stand's top may not be designed to hold your tank. The top may just be more of a decorative piece of wood or particle board where the stand is designed for the tank's four bottom-side framing sections to sit directly above the upright supports of the stand. This is another one of them physics problems that I understand in my head but may not be able to explain to others properly. Hopefully your LFS guy knows about this design feature in aquarium stands. If you can give me dimensions (mainly the footprint - L x W dimensions) of the tank and stand and the manufacturer and/or model number of the stand, I would be able to check this out and advise better. I just don't want you to wake up to a disaster one day. BTW... Angelfish are cichlids so you could get them and he should be happy. Of course, he probably wants African Cichlids and Angelfish are S. American Cichlids. If that is the case, then they would not mix, although some species might work but it wouldn't be the best thing for the fish since their water parameter preferences are much different. As far as easy plants, see my blog article, "Planted Tank - So You Want A Planted Tank?" which has LOTS of info and links to other sites with LOTS more info for beginners who want a planted tank including lots of choices of good beginner plants that are easy to grow. If he also likes the idea of a planted tank, then your Angelfish Cichlids and maybe a S. American Biotope would be the way to go since African Cichlids like rocks and lots of rocks... not plants. I hope you get this reply. I know you recently said you were not getting email from the group properly... dang Yahoo! Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com [mailto:AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com] On Behalf Of Heather Sent: Friday, September 11, 2009 10:22 PM To: aquatic life Subject: [AquaticLife] Picked up my 65 gallon tonight  Well I went and picked up my 65 gallon tank tonight and a stand that is actually for a 125 gallon but it was free and has lower cabinets and drawers which is awesome. Our local fish guy is a great guy. I also bought a Marineland Pro Series Bio Wheel Power Filter 400 for a great price which he told me was a great filter but that I might eventually need a second one depending on what kind of fish we decide on but I want this to be a heavily planted tank so not sure I will need a second filter.  Also picked up another 29 for very cheap which I will set up for my albino clawed frog.  So all in all the guppies and platies with stay in their 29 and the frog will be switched over from a 10 to a 29 and in a few months we will start to add fish to the new tank. We will not be setting up the new tank until we clean, sand down and restain the stand and then will take it through the fishless cycling and then we will begin to add fish. My fiance really wants to go with cichlids but Im not so sure thats what I want. I want to be able to have angels as I really like angels and my favorite of course is danios and I want them and cichlids would make that impossible so we are still discussing what type of fish to put in so it may be quite some time before we make any decisions and actually add fish. I also would like this to be a planted tank so I will probably start on that part right away after we get it all set up. I can go ahead and begin to put aquatic plants in right away after it is set up...right? I always added my plants quite a bit after my fish in the past and have never had a tank as planted as I would like this one to be so I would love some advice on the easiest aquatic plants to care for in a heavily planted tank and what else I would need to keep them healthy and well living...lol!  I know I have rambled on and on but I am excited about the new tank and about getting plants into and eventually fish and would love any suggestions on the plant topic because I am still very new at the whole aquatic plant thing. My frog tank has a few plants but I havent had to do much for them and my tanks in the past had some that my pleco usually ended up shredding which wasnt so pretty....lol and Ihad some duckweed in one of my 55's which took over and I didnt like that much.  Anyway thanks for listening to me ramble about my new tanks and again any advice, tips, suggestions are more than welcome. Heather [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 43366	From: Heather	Date: 9/11/2009
Subject: Have a question about tank molding

Where could I buy new moldings for tanks? The center bar on the 65 looks as if someone had a light of some sort laying right on it and it melted and then was fixed with silicone and we would like to replace the entire top molding and bottom if need be to make it match...lol! Any suggestions on where I can pick this up or order this? Huge Hugs~Heather http://www.youravon.com/hbroschayt [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 43367	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 9/11/2009
Subject: Re: Lenny--RE: [AquaticLife] Picked up my 65 gallon tonight

No, you can not send pics through the group but you can upload them to the group's photo album section or post them to your own online photo album and give us a link to where ever you put them. You do get a Flickr account, I believe automatically, with your Yahoo ID and Flickr is pretty easy to use. Other online photo album sites include Photobucket, Webshots, Picasa and many others. It sounds like it could be a DIY stand so it may be built to stronger standards than many of the "aquarium stands" that are sold so you be OK. BUT... it could also be just a piece of furniture and then it may not be suitable. Not many manufactured aquarium stands include drawers in them, nor do many DIY stands, although a decent handyman or carpenter could certainly do that kind of work. Your pics would be helpful. Take several different angles, including the insides of the stand, if possible. Just so you know, Convicts are not African Cichlids. They come from Central America. They do OK with plants but may not be suitable with Angelfish. They like the same kinds of ecology and water but Convicts tend to be very aggressive. You guys have to decide if you want a planted tank or not. If you want planted, then the African Cichlid tank is out... unless you get a 2nd tank. ;-) Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Heather Sent: Friday, September 11, 2009 11:14 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Lenny--RE: [AquaticLife] Picked up my 65 gallon tonight  This stand is actually made out of 3/4 inch plywood which has a center cabinet with center supports on both sides of the cabinet door and then drawers on either side of the cabinet. Can I send pictures through the group...I will take some and send them through if I can.  And yes Tim wants the african cichlids and he really likes convicts which I am also not so fond of...lol! Huge Hugs~Heather http://www.youravon.com/hbroschayt --- On Fri, 9/11/09, Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@...> wrote: From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@...> Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Picked up my 65 gallon tonight To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Date: Friday, September 11, 2009, 11:00 PM   Did you say your LFS sold you the stand and the tank? Do they have the same foot print? The reason I ask is that most aquarium stands are designed for the four sides to carry the weight of the aquarium since the aquariums stand displaces all of the weight on the four bottom-sides of the tank's frame. If your stand is 60" x 24" and your tank is 48" x 18", then the stand's top may not be designed to hold your tank. The top may just be more of a decorative piece of wood or particle board where the stand is designed for the tank's four bottom-side framing sections to sit directly above the upright supports of the stand. This is another one of them physics problems that I understand in my head but may not be able to explain to others properly. Hopefully your LFS guy knows about this design feature in aquarium stands. If you can give me dimensions (mainly the footprint - L x W dimensions) of the tank and stand and the manufacturer and/or model number of the stand, I would be able to check this out and advise better. I just don't want you to wake up to a disaster one day. BTW... Angelfish are cichlids so you could get them and he should be happy. Of course, he probably wants African Cichlids and Angelfish are S. American Cichlids. If that is the case, then they would not mix, although some species might work but it wouldn't be the best thing for the fish since their water parameter preferences are much different. As far as easy plants, see my blog article, "Planted Tank - So You Want A Planted Tank?" which has LOTS of info and links to other sites with LOTS more info for beginners who want a planted tank including lots of choices of good beginner plants that are easy to grow. If he also likes the idea of a planted tank, then your Angelfish Cichlids and maybe a S. American Biotope would be the way to go since African Cichlids like rocks and lots of rocks... not plants. I hope you get this reply. I know you recently said you were not getting email from the group properly... dang Yahoo! Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com [mailto:AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com] On Behalf Of Heather Sent: Friday, September 11, 2009 10:22 PM To: aquatic life Subject: [AquaticLife] Picked up my 65 gallon tonight  Well I went and picked up my 65 gallon tank tonight and a stand that is actually for a 125 gallon but it was free and has lower cabinets and drawers which is awesome. Our local fish guy is a great guy. I also bought a Marineland Pro Series Bio Wheel Power Filter 400 for a great price which he told me was a great filter but that I might eventually need a second one depending on what kind of fish we decide on but I want this to be a heavily planted tank so not sure I will need a second filter.  Also picked up another 29 for very cheap which I will set up for my albino clawed frog.  So all in all the guppies and platies with stay in their 29 and the frog will be switched over from a 10 to a 29 and in a few months we will start to add fish to the new tank. We will not be setting up the new tank until we clean, sand down and restain the stand and then will take it through the fishless cycling and then we will begin to add fish. My fiance really wants to go with cichlids but Im not so sure thats what I want. I want to be able to have angels as I really like angels and my favorite of course is danios and I want them and cichlids would make that impossible so we are still discussing what type of fish to put in so it may be quite some time before we make any decisions and actually add fish. I also would like this to be a planted tank so I will probably start on that part right away after we get it all set up. I can go ahead and begin to put aquatic plants in right away after it is set up...right? I always added my plants quite a bit after my fish in the past and have never had a tank as planted as I would like this one to be so I would love some advice on the easiest aquatic plants to care for in a heavily planted tank and what else I would need to keep them healthy and well living...lol!  I know I have rambled on and on but I am excited about the new tank and about getting plants into and eventually fish and would love any suggestions on the plant topic because I am still very new at the whole aquatic plant thing. My frog tank has a few plants but I havent had to do much for them and my tanks in the past had some that my pleco usually ended up shredding which wasnt so pretty....lol and Ihad some duckweed in one of my 55's which took over and I didnt like that much.  Anyway thanks for listening to me ramble about my new tanks and again any advice, tips, suggestions are more than welcome. Heather

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 43368	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 9/11/2009
Subject: Re: Have a question about tank molding

I don't think you would want to or need to replace the top framing. It's a lot of work for a minor repair. You can simply repair that center brace by scraping off the silicone and then getting a piece of plastic or maybe 1/8" plexiglass, long enough to cover the entire broken brace, then use a 2-part epoxy to glue the repair strip to the top of the current bracket. This bracket is not a major support bracket but it does provide support to keep the long sides of the tank from bowing outward when filled with water. I'm not sure I would rely on silicone to repair this, especially if the silicone is only "gluing" the broken parts together. Now, if they used a strip, like I just described and used silicone as the adhesive, that seems like it would be sufficient. Take some pics of this brace and the repair so I can give better info on this also. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Heather Sent: Friday, September 11, 2009 11:48 PM To: Aquatic Life Subject: [AquaticLife] Have a question about tank molding Where could I buy new moldings for tanks? The center bar on the 65 looks as if someone had a light of some sort laying right on it and it melted and then was fixed with silicone and we would like to replace the entire top molding and bottom if need be to make it match...lol! Any suggestions on where I can pick this up or order this? Huge Hugs~Heather http://www.youravon.com/hbroschayt

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 43369	From: Heather	Date: 9/11/2009
Subject: Re: Have a question about tank molding

No they were basically just filling in the hole/huge space left over after it was melted and it looks horrible and I am sure would not give anything much support. I think your idea sounds great and yes like it would be much easier than replacing the moldings. I will take pictures of everything first thing in the morning and either post them on my photobucket account and send a link or upload them to the groups photos page. Heather   --- On Sat, 9/12/09, Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@...> wrote: From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@...> Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Have a question about tank molding To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Date: Saturday, September 12, 2009, 12:00 AM   I don't think you would want to or need to replace the top framing. It's a lot of work for a minor repair. You can simply repair that center brace by scraping off the silicone and then getting a piece of plastic or maybe 1/8" plexiglass, long enough to cover the entire broken brace, then use a 2-part epoxy to glue the repair strip to the top of the current bracket. This bracket is not a major support bracket but it does provide support to keep the long sides of the tank from bowing outward when filled with water. I'm not sure I would rely on silicone to repair this, especially if the silicone is only "gluing" the broken parts together. Now, if they used a strip, like I just described and used silicone as the adhesive, that seems like it would be sufficient. Take some pics of this brace and the repair so I can give better info on this also. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com [mailto:AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com] On Behalf Of Heather Sent: Friday, September 11, 2009 11:48 PM To: Aquatic Life Subject: [AquaticLife] Have a question about tank molding Where could I buy new moldings for tanks? The center bar on the 65 looks as if someone had a light of some sort laying right on it and it melted and then was fixed with silicone and we would like to replace the entire top molding and bottom if need be to make it match...lol! Any suggestions on where I can pick this up or order this? Huge Hugs~Heather http://www.youravon .com/hbroschayt [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 43370	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 9/12/2009
Subject: Scouting Louis Agassiz's Personal Assistant

Jacques Burkhardt and the Thayer Collection Expedition to Brazil http://library.mcz.harvard.edu/wp/?page_id=63 Born around 1808, Jacques Burkhardt was a naturalist, an explorer, and the personal assistant to famed scientist Louis Agassiz. Burkhardt was a well- known scientific artist, and his turtle illustrations are considered some of the most elaborate ever created. These illustrations (and many others) were the product of a fifteen-month collecting expedition to Brazil led by Agassiz, and Burkhardt was along to document the entire trip. On this site, visitors can look over 976 scientific drawings, which include 518 watercolor and/or pencil drawings of fishes and other vertebrates and invertebrates. Additionally, the archive also contains five portrait photographs of various party members, including Burkhardt, and a number of non-scientific drawings of Brazilian landscapes. The site is rounded out by the inclusion of a link to the complete Thayer Expedition Papers, courtesy of the Ernst Mayr Library at Harvard University. >From The Scout Report, Copyright Internet Scout 1994-2009. http://scout.wisc.edu/ \\Steve//

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 43371	From: kuradi8	Date: 9/12/2009
Subject: Re: Air Pumps

Wow! What an answer! It'll take some time to digest it all. The bottom line is that I'm going to have to wait and see. I guess if I'm not happy with the pump I bought, I can re-sell it on ebay or Craig's List or something. And then try again. All I want to run is two 24" wands or two 4" disks. The wands are prettier but harder to vacuum around and the disks are easier to deal with but not as decorative. The wimpy Whisper 60 I have is 4 watts and 2 outlets. That's all I know about it. Very disappointing. The Hydroponics I bought is 8 watts and 4 outlets with 3 psi and 20 L/min. The Rena I should have (?) bought is 8 watts and 2 outlets with 4.3 psi and either 3.3 or 2.2 L/min (depending whose specs you believe.) And the el-cheapo Chinese units that I don't trust (but haven't written off completely) are 8 watts and 1 outlet with 4.35 psi and 8 L/min. My tank is a standard consumer 55g with a water depth of about 18". I've got a very busy few days ahead so pardon me if I don't/can't reply in a polite amount of time. Hitting the ground running..... ~Kai --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@...> wrote: > > Actually, PSI, while a helpful spec, isn't the end-all spec either. You > have to factor in all of the specs, along with the intended purpose to try > and get the best practical pump for an application... whether an air pump or > water pump. And then you have to figure that the manufacturers are > embellishing things a little... "salesman's fluffery" so to speak. Next, > you have to wean through their specs and information to see how they > determined their specs. Since that one mentions that it's primary use is > with hydroponics, I just hope it has enough Ummphh to push the air down to > the dept of your tank. > > Hopefully, this pump will work for you but it certainly would have been > better to ask out here first before buying it. I was under the impression > you were going with the Rena Air 400 since a couple of us had vouched for > that manufacturer but it still might not have been enough if you have a lot > of things needing to be powered by the air pump. Just based on the PSI > specs, the Rena has over 40% more Ummphhh but this may not be needed in your > situation but might be needed for a 24" deep or deeper aquarium. I wish the > pumps put better comparative specs on their pumps.. but they don't. In your > case, the pump you purchased, since you are wanting to power a couple or > several things may work perfectly for you. I simply haven't experimented > with enough air pumps to know. > > Like the recent follow-up post by BigPoppa... at least I think it was him... > asking about how much air does one need in a tank and the answer is "it > depends". I have ZERO in my tanks but I know others use air pumps to power > their filtration, decorations, air stones, etc. so they need a LOT more. > > The depth of the tank certainly does matter, as I explained in an earlier > reply, and a higher PSI rated pump will do a better job on a deeper tank but > then the Liters/hour (or cf - cubic feet/hour), the size of the airline, the > size of air-plumbing in the item being powered, etc., also comes into play. > For example, you could have a 1" diameter tubing with lots of air volume and > a BIG pump, but then if it gets to a 1/8" opening the air is just going to > come to a near standstill with only a little bit (1/8") of air going through > this smaller opening... but at a higher PSI but with a much lower liter/hour > of air volume. > > Another example, if you are trying to blow up a pool raft through one of > them little 1/4" sized plugs, it's going to take you a long time to fill it > up because even though you might be able to blow out a lot of air, when > trying to force that air through a little opening, it takes a lot more work > than if you were trying to fill up a raft that has a plug that's an inch > wide or more. At that point, liters per hour comes into play since there is > little restriction to get the air into the raft. Now, if you try to blow > that same raft up under water, whether with the 1/4" plug or a 1" or 2" > plug, it's going to be MUCH, MUCH harder due to the water pressure from the > weight of the water. Now, PSI will certainly help with this but then, since > the air gets compressed under the weight of the water, you also need enough > volume at a certain PSI. It's not a simple one-size-fits-all answer. > > I'm not a physicist, although I did study it, advanced math and calculus in > high school and a little more in college, so while I might be able to > understand things, I'm not always able to explain these things to others if > they do not have a fundamental understanding of them, so those are the best > examples I can come up with. Even with my having stayed at a Holiday Inn > Express last night... it doesn't help with this one. LOL > http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ff9soPDP7Pc > > I do have this link in my favorites about Bernoulli's Principle, which deals > with fluid dynamics, that is an interactive Java based webpage where you can > see how this works with Flow rates of water, which kind of helps with > explaining how air works also, when it comes to moving it through different > sized pipes/tubing, with the difference being that water is MUCH denser than > air so it cannot be easily compressed like air can be compressed or > pressurized (there's that PSI thing again). > > http://home.earthlink.net/~mmc1919/venturi.html > > If you grab the yellow square on the two ends and open them up wide and then > grab the yellow squares in the middle and close them down to an 1/4" or > 1/8", you will see what happens to the simulated molecules (the red balls). > In a bigger pipe (or river/stream), it can be the same amount of water > flowing but at a much slower pace than when the pipe is made much smaller, > much like how a river runs slowly but then when it gets to a narrower > section, the water flows much faster possibly turning into rapids if the > narrowing area is rocky. > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right > side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) > > > > -----Original Message----- > Kai wrote: > > Gosh, I really wish someone had said I need to look at PSI a few days ago > when I asked which of the specs is most important. Now that I know that the > answer is PSI, I can kinda infer it by looking back at a couple of the > replies but it really didn't sink in at the time. > > Kevin's reply spoke of volume and pressure but I didn't know which was more > important. And Lenny, you said, "It takes work to push air under water so a > deeper tank needs a much stronger air pump. It's nothing to do with watts or > liters per minute if the pump can't push the air down to the depths that you > might need.?" > > OK, I guess now that I know you meant PSI, that's what you meant. But I > wish you'd said so in so many words. Unfortunately, process of elimination > didn't sink in to my feeble mind. > > The Rena supposedly maxes out at 4.3psi and the Hydroponics at 3psi. The > Rena has 2 outlets and the Hydro has 4 (but they can be switched off) so do > I have to divide that output by the number of outlets that are being used? > Crap, I'da been better off with a pair of those single-outlet Chinese units > with 4.35psi. I dunno... can I TRUST their specs? > > Crap. Too soon old, too late smart. I hope this doesn't turn out to be yet > MORE money down the drain. This is me snarling, growling and spitting > sparks. > ~Kai > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@> > wrote: > > > > I hope this one has enough Ummmph to push air to the bottom of your tank. > > That's where the PSI comes in handy. How much higher PSI rating did > > the Rena have? Since it was designed for hydroponics, I'm not sure > > their water systems are very deep... in fact, I think they are rather > shallow trays, but > > I could be wrong. This page shows the deepest of three plant containers > at > > less than 6" deep. > > http://homeharvest.com/hydroponicgrowingcontainers.htm > > > > This site even has a page about your new pump... > > http://www.4hydroponics.com/grow_room/dualDiaphragmPump.asp with a lower > > price than what you paid also. Sorry to be the bearer of bad news. I > see > > yours does include free shipping so maybe that will make the $54.95 > > price on this page more palatable compared to the $71.88 price on eBay. > > > > Worse case scenario, you could probably sell it on Craigslist in the > > "Grow Your Own" section. LOL I'm sure there are more of "those > > kinds" of hydroponics users than folks that grow fruits and veggies. > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles > > referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically > > under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > Kai wrote: > > > > After having gotten burned by the wimpy pump, overkill seemed like a > > better option than another disappointment. And the 4 outlets give me > > the option of adding more (sing this) tiiiiny buuuubbles if the pump > > truly is up to the task. > > > > Both this one and the Rena are 8w. The Rena's PSI is higher. But > > this one's L/min is higher. So equal, worse, better... I figured > > they're pretty close. > > > > And believe it or not, I stayed in my meager price range. ;o) ~Kai > > > > > > > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" > > <GoldLenny@> > > wrote: > > > > > > That one seems like overkill for a single tank... or were you > > > planning on adding a few more now? I thought you were looking at > > > the low-$40's or lower price range. ;-) > > > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles > > > referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, > > > alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) > > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > Kai wrote: > > > > > > For those of you who might remember my air pump dilemma, > > > > > > Well, I took the plunge. I'd had my eye on a Rena 400 but got a > > > good deal on one of these instead. This is not where I got the pump > > > from but this ebay listing describes it best: > > > http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=300343244939 > > > > > > It's for my 55g and will replace a very disappointingly wimpy > > > Whisper-60. I hope I chose well. Did I? > > > ~Kai > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 43372	From: Donna Ransome	Date: 9/12/2009
Subject: Re: Regarding new tank - In addition to. . .

I vote for Rena XP filters as well. I have several, and also some Eheim Ecco’s. _____ From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Amber Berglund Sent: Friday, September 11, 2009 10:39 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Regarding new tank - In addition to. . . I'm also a big proponent of the Rena Filstar canister filters, they are fairly easy to clean compared to most canister filters and after you prime it for the very first time you never have to again, all you do is unplug the filter, unplug the hoses from the base (they have a lever to shut off the water flow and unhook the hoses so water won't pour out onto the floor). Then you do your filter cleaning, refill with fresh tank water (not tap water, make sure you remember this as it will kill off your nitrifying bacteria in your filter). Then hook it all back up and plug it in, viola! :) LOL. I'd switch all my filters over to the rena filstars if I could switch for free ;) Also if you watch on ebay you can find cheap deals for the rena xp 4's (which is the one I would recommend for you). I got 2 of them for less than half of what you'd pay on a retail site, and they were only dented boxes, everything inside the box was still sealed up in plastic still and unused. Just make sure to read the descriptions carefully, especially if you're in a place that's not easy to ship to (like I am), as some ebay sellers will only ship to the continental US (I'm still wondering if they look at a map, Alaska is really attached to the northern continent, it's not floating off by hawaii like it looks like on most maps ;) LOL. Amber Cee Jaye wrote: > > > Thanks much Lenny!! I will check those articles out in just a few > mins. . I > m winding down & getting ready to settle & watch TV, so I will do that > when > I get ready for bed;) > Tara > > -------Original Message------- > > From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny > Date: 9/11/2009 8:54:36 PM > To: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Regarding new tank - In addition to. . . > > Keep your current filter and just add a second filter system. I don't > know > what you have now but I'd make the second filter system a Rena Filstar > canister filter which would do a better job of handling the weekly waste > output of an larger Oscar. Put one filter system on each end of the > tank to > ensure adequate water circulation throughout the tank. I'm pretty sure > Oscars LOVE to dig in the gravel, which is why they do not do well with > plants but they still like to dig and redecorate their tanks on a regular > basis. See those two good profile articles I gave you links to in one > of my > earlier replies... one on Mongabay.com and one on Cichlid-Forum.com. > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> blogspot.com> > (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right > side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) > > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > [mailto:AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On > Behalf Of Cee Jaye > Sent: Friday, September 11, 2009 7:30 PM > To: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Regarding new tank - In addition to. . . > > Well, I guess when the time comes to move him to a larger tank, it > will also > require purchasing a new filter??:) So, my next question is this. . . > What > filtration systems do you recommend for a 55 or 75 gal tank housing 1 > Oscar? > My other thing is. . . I have nothing in his tank. He has no stones or > anything. Should he HAVE stones? Is it necessary? Thanks! Tara > > > > ------------------------------------ > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank > You. > ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> > PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to > the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the > SUBJECT > LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- > <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. > > If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of unsubscribing, you > can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the > home page. > > Or e-mail aquaticlife- <mailto:aquaticlife-digest%40yahoogroups.com> digest@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:aquaticlife-digest%40yahoogroups.com> to receive the digest, which > includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email > > Or email aquaticlife- <mailto:aquaticlife-nomail%40yahoogroups.com> nomail@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:aquaticlife-nomail%40yahoogroups.com> for the No E-Mail option > where > you will still be able to read messages on the group and post replies. > > Or email aquaticlife- <mailto:aquaticlife-normal%40yahoogroups.com> normal@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:aquaticlife-normal%40yahoogroups.com> to receive individual > e-mails > Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 43373	From: Donna Ransome	Date: 9/12/2009
Subject: Re: Lenny--RE: [AquaticLife] Picked up my 65 gallon tonight

What are the dimensions of the 65G? If it is not 48” long then you may find it VERY limiting if you want African cichlids. _____ From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Heather Sent: Saturday, September 12, 2009 12:14 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Lenny--RE: [AquaticLife] Picked up my 65 gallon tonight This stand is actually made out of 3/4 inch plywood which has a center cabinet with center supports on both sides of the cabinet door and then drawers on either side of the cabinet. Can I send pictures through the group...I will take some and send them through if I can. And yes Tim wants the african cichlids and he really likes convicts which I am also not so fond of...lol! Huge Hugs~Heather http://www.youravon <http://www.youravon.com/hbroschayt> .com/hbroschayt --- On Fri, 9/11/09, Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@gmail. <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com> com> wrote: From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@gmail. <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com> com> Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Picked up my 65 gallon tonight To: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com Date: Friday, September 11, 2009, 11:00 PM Did you say your LFS sold you the stand and the tank? Do they have the same foot print? The reason I ask is that most aquarium stands are designed for the four sides to carry the weight of the aquarium since the aquariums stand displaces all of the weight on the four bottom-sides of the tank's frame. If your stand is 60" x 24" and your tank is 48" x 18", then the stand's top may not be designed to hold your tank. The top may just be more of a decorative piece of wood or particle board where the stand is designed for the tank's four bottom-side framing sections to sit directly above the upright supports of the stand. This is another one of them physics problems that I understand in my head but may not be able to explain to others properly. Hopefully your LFS guy knows about this design feature in aquarium stands. If you can give me dimensions (mainly the footprint - L x W dimensions) of the tank and stand and the manufacturer and/or model number of the stand, I would be able to check this out and advise better. I just don't want you to wake up to a disaster one day. BTW... Angelfish are cichlids so you could get them and he should be happy. Of course, he probably wants African Cichlids and Angelfish are S. American Cichlids. If that is the case, then they would not mix, although some species might work but it wouldn't be the best thing for the fish since their water parameter preferences are much different. As far as easy plants, see my blog article, "Planted Tank - So You Want A Planted Tank?" which has LOTS of info and links to other sites with LOTS more info for beginners who want a planted tank including lots of choices of good beginner plants that are easy to grow. If he also likes the idea of a planted tank, then your Angelfish Cichlids and maybe a S. American Biotope would be the way to go since African Cichlids like rocks and lots of rocks... not plants. I hope you get this reply. I know you recently said you were not getting email from the group properly... dang Yahoo! Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com [mailto:AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com] On Behalf Of Heather Sent: Friday, September 11, 2009 10:22 PM To: aquatic life Subject: [AquaticLife] Picked up my 65 gallon tonight Well I went and picked up my 65 gallon tank tonight and a stand that is actually for a 125 gallon but it was free and has lower cabinets and drawers which is awesome. Our local fish guy is a great guy. I also bought a Marineland Pro Series Bio Wheel Power Filter 400 for a great price which he told me was a great filter but that I might eventually need a second one depending on what kind of fish we decide on but I want this to be a heavily planted tank so not sure I will need a second filter. Also picked up another 29 for very cheap which I will set up for my albino clawed frog. So all in all the guppies and platies with stay in their 29 and the frog will be switched over from a 10 to a 29 and in a few months we will start to add fish to the new tank. We will not be setting up the new tank until we clean, sand down and restain the stand and then will take it through the fishless cycling and then we will begin to add fish. My fiance really wants to go with cichlids but Im not so sure thats what I want. I want to be able to have angels as I really like angels and my favorite of course is danios and I want them and cichlids would make that impossible so we are still discussing what type of fish to put in so it may be quite some time before we make any decisions and actually add fish. I also would like this to be a planted tank so I will probably start on that part right away after we get it all set up. I can go ahead and begin to put aquatic plants in right away after it is set up...right? I always added my plants quite a bit after my fish in the past and have never had a tank as planted as I would like this one to be so I would love some advice on the easiest aquatic plants to care for in a heavily planted tank and what else I would need to keep them healthy and well living...lol! I know I have rambled on and on but I am excited about the new tank and about getting plants into and eventually fish and would love any suggestions on the plant topic because I am still very new at the whole aquatic plant thing. My frog tank has a few plants but I havent had to do much for them and my tanks in the past had some that my pleco usually ended up shredding which wasnt so pretty....lol and Ihad some duckweed in one of my 55's which took over and I didnt like that much. Anyway thanks for listening to me ramble about my new tanks and again any advice, tips, suggestions are more than welcome. Heather [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 43374	From: Heather	Date: 9/12/2009
Subject: Re: Lenny--RE: [AquaticLife] Picked up my 65 gallon tonight

Its 48 inches long 18 inches wide. Heather --- On Sat, 9/12/09, Donna Ransome <djransome@...> wrote: From: Donna Ransome <djransome@...> Subject: RE: Lenny--RE: [AquaticLife] Picked up my 65 gallon tonight To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Date: Saturday, September 12, 2009, 8:06 AM   What are the dimensions of the 65G? If it is not 48” long then you may find it VERY limiting if you want African cichlids. _____ From: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com [mailto:AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com] On Behalf Of Heather Sent: Saturday, September 12, 2009 12:14 AM To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com Subject: Lenny--RE: [AquaticLife] Picked up my 65 gallon tonight This stand is actually made out of 3/4 inch plywood which has a center cabinet with center supports on both sides of the cabinet door and then drawers on either side of the cabinet. Can I send pictures through the group...I will take some and send them through if I can. And yes Tim wants the african cichlids and he really likes convicts which I am also not so fond of...lol! Huge Hugs~Heather http://www.youravon <http://www.youravon .com/hbroschayt> .com/hbroschayt --- On Fri, 9/11/09, Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@gmail. <mailto:GoldLenny% 40gmail.com> com> wrote: From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@gmail. <mailto:GoldLenny% 40gmail.com> com> Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Picked up my 65 gallon tonight To: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife %40yahoogroups. com> yahoogroups. com Date: Friday, September 11, 2009, 11:00 PM Did you say your LFS sold you the stand and the tank? Do they have the same foot print? The reason I ask is that most aquarium stands are designed for the four sides to carry the weight of the aquarium since the aquariums stand displaces all of the weight on the four bottom-sides of the tank's frame. If your stand is 60" x 24" and your tank is 48" x 18", then the stand's top may not be designed to hold your tank. The top may just be more of a decorative piece of wood or particle board where the stand is designed for the tank's four bottom-side framing sections to sit directly above the upright supports of the stand. This is another one of them physics problems that I understand in my head but may not be able to explain to others properly. Hopefully your LFS guy knows about this design feature in aquarium stands. If you can give me dimensions (mainly the footprint - L x W dimensions) of the tank and stand and the manufacturer and/or model number of the stand, I would be able to check this out and advise better. I just don't want you to wake up to a disaster one day. BTW... Angelfish are cichlids so you could get them and he should be happy. Of course, he probably wants African Cichlids and Angelfish are S. American Cichlids. If that is the case, then they would not mix, although some species might work but it wouldn't be the best thing for the fish since their water parameter preferences are much different. As far as easy plants, see my blog article, "Planted Tank - So You Want A Planted Tank?" which has LOTS of info and links to other sites with LOTS more info for beginners who want a planted tank including lots of choices of good beginner plants that are easy to grow. If he also likes the idea of a planted tank, then your Angelfish Cichlids and maybe a S. American Biotope would be the way to go since African Cichlids like rocks and lots of rocks... not plants. I hope you get this reply. I know you recently said you were not getting email from the group properly... dang Yahoo! Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com [mailto:AquaticLife @ yahoogroups. com] On Behalf Of Heather Sent: Friday, September 11, 2009 10:22 PM To: aquatic life Subject: [AquaticLife] Picked up my 65 gallon tonight Well I went and picked up my 65 gallon tank tonight and a stand that is actually for a 125 gallon but it was free and has lower cabinets and drawers which is awesome. Our local fish guy is a great guy. I also bought a Marineland Pro Series Bio Wheel Power Filter 400 for a great price which he told me was a great filter but that I might eventually need a second one depending on what kind of fish we decide on but I want this to be a heavily planted tank so not sure I will need a second filter. Also picked up another 29 for very cheap which I will set up for my albino clawed frog. So all in all the guppies and platies with stay in their 29 and the frog will be switched over from a 10 to a 29 and in a few months we will start to add fish to the new tank. We will not be setting up the new tank until we clean, sand down and restain the stand and then will take it through the fishless cycling and then we will begin to add fish. My fiance really wants to go with cichlids but Im not so sure thats what I want. I want to be able to have angels as I really like angels and my favorite of course is danios and I want them and cichlids would make that impossible so we are still discussing what type of fish to put in so it may be quite some time before we make any decisions and actually add fish. I also would like this to be a planted tank so I will probably start on that part right away after we get it all set up. I can go ahead and begin to put aquatic plants in right away after it is set up...right? I always added my plants quite a bit after my fish in the past and have never had a tank as planted as I would like this one to be so I would love some advice on the easiest aquatic plants to care for in a heavily planted tank and what else I would need to keep them healthy and well living...lol! I know I have rambled on and on but I am excited about the new tank and about getting plants into and eventually fish and would love any suggestions on the plant topic because I am still very new at the whole aquatic plant thing. My frog tank has a few plants but I havent had to do much for them and my tanks in the past had some that my pleco usually ended up shredding which wasnt so pretty....lol and Ihad some duckweed in one of my 55's which took over and I didnt like that much. Anyway thanks for listening to me ramble about my new tanks and again any advice, tips, suggestions are more than welcome. Heather [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 43375	From: Heather	Date: 9/12/2009
Subject: Pics of my tank and stand

Pics are waiting approval on the group webpage under Heathers Photos. The stand is a tiny bit over 75 inches long by 19.5 inches wide all made with 3/4 inch plywood except the solid wood front and the two supports on either side of the middle cabinet are made with 1 inch thick plywood.  The tank is made with very thick tempered glass and all is in perfect shape except the top molding which has been torn up and melted and so on. Almost looks as if they were trying to trim it down to get a small filter to fit on. The molding is all intact and connected but looks horrible...lol! Heather [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 43376	From: bill 1433	Date: 9/12/2009
Subject: Re: Air Pumps

\\Steve// is right here but also, in mention of UFG? If your going to power Under Gravel Filters? Your best bet is to simply use a power head to do it. Not only will you move way more water but in the long run is cheaper and easier. If setting up a big tank, 55 or more, you don't put return or power tubes in each plate, one per plate with a power head is plenty. Bill --- On Fri, 9/11/09, Steve Szabo <steve@...> wrote: > From: Steve Szabo <steve@...> > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: Air Pumps > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Date: Friday, September 11, 2009, 9:43 PM > Do you mean how much air to provide a > tank with using a pump, or how much oxygen and carbon > dioxide should be in the water? > > If it is the former, enough to do the job you want it to > do. If you are using an air driven UGF, you'll need a lot > more air than if you want the pirate chest that uses air to > lift the lid as a large bubble of air is released. > > If you mean the latter, you want to look at 5-8 ppm of > oxygen. The higher your temperature, the less oxygen the > water can hold in solution. I do not know about the > concentration of other gases in the water, but I do know > that I have seen a number for CO2, but it hasn't hung around > in my mind. > > \\Steve// > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] > On Behalf Of biG poppa > Sent: Friday, September 11, 2009 7:39 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: Air Pumps > > here is a question for you Lenny whats the ratio of air per > gallon of water? > > --- On Fri, 9/11/09, Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@...> > wrote: > > > From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@...> > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: Air Pumps > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Date: Friday, September 11, 2009, 7:27 PM > > >   > > > > That one seems like overkill for a single tank... or were > you planning on > adding a few more now? I thought you were looking at the > low-$40's or lower > price range. ;-) > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com > (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed > on the right > side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives > by Year, Month) > > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com [mailto:AquaticLife@ > yahoogroups. com] On > Behalf Of kuradi8 > Sent: Friday, September 11, 2009 3:45 PM > To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Air Pumps > > For those of you who might remember my air pump dilemma, > > Well, I took the plunge. I'd had my eye on a Rena 400 but > got a good deal > on one of these instead. This is not where I got the pump > from but this > ebay listing describes it best: > http://cgi.ebay. com/ws/eBayISAPI .dll?ViewItem& > item=30034324493 9 > > It's for my 55g and will replace a very disappointingly > wimpy Whisper-60. I > hope I chose well. Did I? > ~Kai > > > > ------------------------------------ > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when > replying, Thank You. > ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> > ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> > PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is > NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of > the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new > subject (was re: old subject)" <- > <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. > , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. > > If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of > unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by > clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the home page.  > > Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com > to receive the digest, which includes up to 25 posts at a > time in a single email > > Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com > for the No E-Mail option where you will still be able to > read messages on the group and post replies. > > Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com > to receive individual e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links > > >     mailto:AquaticLife-fullfeatured@yahoogroups.com > > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 43377	From: Donna Ransome	Date: 9/12/2009
Subject: Re: Lenny--RE: [AquaticLife] Picked up my 65 gallon tonight

Sounds like a 75G footprint.must be shorter than usual if it's 65G. But that footprint is good for Africans.you just would not want to mix them with angelfish. _____ From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Heather Sent: Saturday, September 12, 2009 9:49 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: Lenny--RE: [AquaticLife] Picked up my 65 gallon tonight Its 48 inches long 18 inches wide. Heather --- On Sat, 9/12/09, Donna Ransome <djransome@optonline <mailto:djransome%40optonline.net> .net> wrote: From: Donna Ransome <djransome@optonline <mailto:djransome%40optonline.net> .net> Subject: RE: Lenny--RE: [AquaticLife] Picked up my 65 gallon tonight To: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com Date: Saturday, September 12, 2009, 8:06 AM What are the dimensions of the 65G? If it is not 48" long then you may find it VERY limiting if you want African cichlids. _____ From: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com [mailto:AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com] On Behalf Of Heather Sent: Saturday, September 12, 2009 12:14 AM To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com Subject: Lenny--RE: [AquaticLife] Picked up my 65 gallon tonight This stand is actually made out of 3/4 inch plywood which has a center cabinet with center supports on both sides of the cabinet door and then drawers on either side of the cabinet. Can I send pictures through the group...I will take some and send them through if I can. And yes Tim wants the african cichlids and he really likes convicts which I am also not so fond of...lol! Huge Hugs~Heather http://www.youravon <http://www.youravon .com/hbroschayt> .com/hbroschayt --- On Fri, 9/11/09, Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@gmail. <mailto:GoldLenny% 40gmail.com> com> wrote: From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@gmail. <mailto:GoldLenny% 40gmail.com> com> Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Picked up my 65 gallon tonight To: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife %40yahoogroups. com> yahoogroups. com Date: Friday, September 11, 2009, 11:00 PM Did you say your LFS sold you the stand and the tank? Do they have the same foot print? The reason I ask is that most aquarium stands are designed for the four sides to carry the weight of the aquarium since the aquariums stand displaces all of the weight on the four bottom-sides of the tank's frame. If your stand is 60" x 24" and your tank is 48" x 18", then the stand's top may not be designed to hold your tank. The top may just be more of a decorative piece of wood or particle board where the stand is designed for the tank's four bottom-side framing sections to sit directly above the upright supports of the stand. This is another one of them physics problems that I understand in my head but may not be able to explain to others properly. Hopefully your LFS guy knows about this design feature in aquarium stands. If you can give me dimensions (mainly the footprint - L x W dimensions) of the tank and stand and the manufacturer and/or model number of the stand, I would be able to check this out and advise better. I just don't want you to wake up to a disaster one day. BTW... Angelfish are cichlids so you could get them and he should be happy. Of course, he probably wants African Cichlids and Angelfish are S. American Cichlids. If that is the case, then they would not mix, although some species might work but it wouldn't be the best thing for the fish since their water parameter preferences are much different. As far as easy plants, see my blog article, "Planted Tank - So You Want A Planted Tank?" which has LOTS of info and links to other sites with LOTS more info for beginners who want a planted tank including lots of choices of good beginner plants that are easy to grow. If he also likes the idea of a planted tank, then your Angelfish Cichlids and maybe a S. American Biotope would be the way to go since African Cichlids like rocks and lots of rocks... not plants. I hope you get this reply. I know you recently said you were not getting email from the group properly... dang Yahoo! Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com [mailto:AquaticLife @ yahoogroups. com] On Behalf Of Heather Sent: Friday, September 11, 2009 10:22 PM To: aquatic life Subject: [AquaticLife] Picked up my 65 gallon tonight Well I went and picked up my 65 gallon tank tonight and a stand that is actually for a 125 gallon but it was free and has lower cabinets and drawers which is awesome. Our local fish guy is a great guy. I also bought a Marineland Pro Series Bio Wheel Power Filter 400 for a great price which he told me was a great filter but that I might eventually need a second one depending on what kind of fish we decide on but I want this to be a heavily planted tank so not sure I will need a second filter. Also picked up another 29 for very cheap which I will set up for my albino clawed frog. So all in all the guppies and platies with stay in their 29 and the frog will be switched over from a 10 to a 29 and in a few months we will start to add fish to the new tank. We will not be setting up the new tank until we clean, sand down and restain the stand and then will take it through the fishless cycling and then we will begin to add fish. My fiance really wants to go with cichlids but Im not so sure thats what I want. I want to be able to have angels as I really like angels and my favorite of course is danios and I want them and cichlids would make that impossible so we are still discussing what type of fish to put in so it may be quite some time before we make any decisions and actually add fish. I also would like this to be a planted tank so I will probably start on that part right away after we get it all set up. I can go ahead and begin to put aquatic plants in right away after it is set up...right? I always added my plants quite a bit after my fish in the past and have never had a tank as planted as I would like this one to be so I would love some advice on the easiest aquatic plants to care for in a heavily planted tank and what else I would need to keep them healthy and well living...lol! I know I have rambled on and on but I am excited about the new tank and about getting plants into and eventually fish and would love any suggestions on the plant topic because I am still very new at the whole aquatic plant thing. My frog tank has a few plants but I havent had to do much for them and my tanks in the past had some that my pleco usually ended up shredding which wasnt so pretty....lol and Ihad some duckweed in one of my 55's which took over and I didnt like that much. Anyway thanks for listening to me ramble about my new tanks and again any advice, tips, suggestions are more than welcome. Heather [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 43378	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 9/12/2009
Subject: Re: Have a question about tank molding

If the middle brace is not completely broken, then it is probably mechanically sound, just maybe not pretty. Using a 1/8" thick piece of plastic, cut to the same size as the brace and epoxied in place would at least cover up the "horrible" looking piece and give you piece of mind that the damaged section will never be a problem in the future. I'm looking at your pictures now, http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife/photos/album/1174204113/pic/list?m ode=tn&order=ordinal&start=1&dir=asc Your stand is definitely a DIY Tank Stand. While much of the stand appears to be framed in hardwood (looks like 1" x 4" sections, the top, rear and bottom panels are made with fiberboard (officially called OSB - Oriented Strand Board), not plywood. OSB is strong and many say as strong as plywood but due to it's make up, it can be compromised easier than plywood, in my opinion and experience, especially when constantly exposed to water, which is not a problem for you unless you had a constantly leaking tank. I've seen houses where either plywood or OSB was used and when both were exposed to flood waters (Katrina), the plywood remained structurally OK while the OSB was deteriorated severely, similar to what happens with particle board when exposed to water except particle board is 100 times worse than OSB. OSB is made by taking shredded wood (made from scraps of wood) and then mixing it in a resin and pressing it into sheets. Particle board is made from taking ground up wood, almost like sawdust, mixing it with resin and pouring it into sheets. OK... enough about wood manufacturing and back to your stand. As you can see, there are 1" x 4" sections outlining the top and these sections sit on top of other 1" x 4" sections and those upright 1" x 4" sections sit on top of the base which is also made up of 1" x 4" sections. For a stand made for such a large tank, I would probably have used 2" x 4"s (which is what I used on my DIY Tank Stand for my 65G - see my blog article) but they also incorporated the OSB to provide additional structural stability so I'm sure it's OK. The problem comes with your smaller tank sitting on it. The BIG questions.... Will your tank bottom-front & back frame sections sit on top of the front and back 1" x 4" sections of the top or just on the OSB panel in the middle? Will your tank's bottom-end frame sections sit on the OSB top where it is supported by the upright OSB panels that enclose the middle cabinet area or not? If you give me dimensions of the stand and tank, I could better assess these questions unless you understand the questions I am asking and can make your own assessment. Now, onto your tank. I misunderstood you when you were saying about the top frame. It's not just the middle brace, which runs across open space and just connects the front and back frame sections in the middle of the tank. It looks like the entire top frame has areas of melted damage. I would suspect this was previously a Saltwater Tank or possibly even a Reptile tank as both of these would use lighting that is usually much hotter than the relatively cool lighting that we usually use on our freshwater tanks. Did you see this tank in use as an aquarium, filled up with water or has it only been empty? Also, ask the previous owner for more info on the history of the tank. Also, if you did not see this tank in use as an aquarium, I would take it outside, on a flat and secure surface, and fill it up to test it out. While it may still be perfectly sound, it has definitely seen some abuse in it's lifetime. I would definitely reinforce that top middle brace just to provide more security that the front and back top frame sections will not bow out when the tank is filled up. Since those sections show some melting damage as well, I would worry that the bowing might cause cracking in the melted sections. The end top frame sections are not really an issue since the glass panes are not long like the front and back panes so the shorter panes are not as subject to bowing as the front and back sections. Believe me, I've seen tanks that either did not have a middle top brace or it was removed and when folks would fill up the tank, the front and back would bow out an inch or two.... very scary looking to me but the people would say, "It's been like that for years", so go figure. Thin glass is very flexible but at a certain point it will develop stress cracks and eventually shatter, which is why the top and bottom frames have those middle braces on larger tanks. If the tank is made with thicker glass, then the middle braces are not as much of an issue. On a side note, the middle top brace does not appear to be filled with silicone to me, but rather an epoxy or fiberglass filler, which would provide more structural stability than silicone. When you touch the whitish colored repaired section, is it soft like silicone (rubbery) or is it hard/rigid, like epoxy or fiberglass would be? Of course, OLD silicone also gets hard but usually starts visibly cracking when that happens. Try to read through this and answer every question I've asked. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Heather Sent: Saturday, September 12, 2009 12:10 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Have a question about tank molding  No they were basically just filling in the hole/huge space left over after it was melted and it looks horrible and I am sure would not give anything much support. I think your idea sounds great and yes like it would be much easier than replacing the moldings. I will take pictures of everything first thing in the morning and either post them on my photobucket account and send a link or upload them to the groups photos page. Heather   --- On Sat, 9/12/09, Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@...> wrote: From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@...> Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Have a question about tank molding To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Date: Saturday, September 12, 2009, 12:00 AM   I don't think you would want to or need to replace the top framing. It's a lot of work for a minor repair. You can simply repair that center brace by scraping off the silicone and then getting a piece of plastic or maybe 1/8" plexiglass, long enough to cover the entire broken brace, then use a 2-part epoxy to glue the repair strip to the top of the current bracket. This bracket is not a major support bracket but it does provide support to keep the long sides of the tank from bowing outward when filled with water. I'm not sure I would rely on silicone to repair this, especially if the silicone is only "gluing" the broken parts together. Now, if they used a strip, like I just described and used silicone as the adhesive, that seems like it would be sufficient. Take some pics of this brace and the repair so I can give better info on this also. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com [mailto:AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com] On Behalf Of Heather Sent: Friday, September 11, 2009 11:48 PM To: Aquatic Life Subject: [AquaticLife] Have a question about tank molding Where could I buy new moldings for tanks? The center bar on the 65 looks as if someone had a light of some sort laying right on it and it melted and then was fixed with silicone and we would like to replace the entire top molding and bottom if need be to make it match...lol! Any suggestions on where I can pick this up or order this? Huge Hugs~Heather http://www.youravon .com/hbroschayt [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] ------------------------------------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the home page. Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com to receive the digest, which includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com for the No E-Mail option where you will still be able to read messages on the group and post replies. Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com to receive individual e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 43379	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 9/12/2009
Subject: Re: Air Pumps

Bill, You cloud the discussion. This is not a conversation about filtration, but in the use of air in the aquarium. Back in the day, even before there were power heads, UGF's were powered by air. I just needed an example of something that would require a healthy amount of air to run, and that was the first thing that came to poor, little, exhausted mind. If you are considering using air for any reason, you should size the pump to the duties planned for it. If you get one that does not have a large enough output, it will not perform as expected, you will be disappointed, and the pump may have a short lifespan. If the one you choose is too large, you will need to bleed off the excess air produced or the tank may be disrupted with currents and/or the air powered device will not function properly, perhaps breaking in the process. The best way I have found to bleed off air is with a two way valve at the end of your distribution system, with a pipe cleaner stuck into the open side of the valve. Adjust the valve as needed to bleed off the excess air pressure. The purpose of the pipe cleaner is to silence the release of the air while also providing minimal back pressure. \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of bill 1433 Sent: Saturday, September 12, 2009 10:33 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: Air Pumps \\Steve// is right here but also, in mention of UFG? If your going to power Under Gravel Filters? Your best bet is to simply use a power head to do it. Not only will you move way more water but in the long run is cheaper and easier. If setting up a big tank, 55 or more, you don't put return or power tubes in each plate, one per plate with a power head is plenty. Bill --- On Fri, 9/11/09, Steve Szabo <steve@...> wrote: > From: Steve Szabo <steve@...> > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: Air Pumps > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Date: Friday, September 11, 2009, 9:43 PM > Do you mean how much air to provide a > tank with using a pump, or how much oxygen and carbon > dioxide should be in the water? > > If it is the former, enough to do the job you want it to > do. If you are using an air driven UGF, you'll need a lot > more air than if you want the pirate chest that uses air to > lift the lid as a large bubble of air is released. > > If you mean the latter, you want to look at 5-8 ppm of > oxygen. The higher your temperature, the less oxygen the > water can hold in solution. I do not know about the > concentration of other gases in the water, but I do know > that I have seen a number for CO2, but it hasn't hung around > in my mind. > > \\Steve// > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] > On Behalf Of biG poppa > Sent: Friday, September 11, 2009 7:39 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: Air Pumps > > here is a question for you Lenny whats the ratio of air per > gallon of water? > > --- On Fri, 9/11/09, Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@...> > wrote: > > > From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@...> > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: Air Pumps > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Date: Friday, September 11, 2009, 7:27 PM > > >   > > > > That one seems like overkill for a single tank... or were > you planning on > adding a few more now? I thought you were looking at the > low-$40's or lower > price range. ;-) > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com > (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed > on the right > side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives > by Year, Month) > > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com [mailto:AquaticLife@ > yahoogroups. com] On > Behalf Of kuradi8 > Sent: Friday, September 11, 2009 3:45 PM > To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Air Pumps > > For those of you who might remember my air pump dilemma, > > Well, I took the plunge. I'd had my eye on a Rena 400 but > got a good deal > on one of these instead. This is not where I got the pump > from but this > ebay listing describes it best: > http://cgi.ebay. com/ws/eBayISAPI .dll?ViewItem& > item=30034324493 9 > > It's for my 55g and will replace a very disappointingly > wimpy Whisper-60. I > hope I chose well. Did I? > ~Kai >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 43380	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 9/12/2009
Subject: Re: Lenny--RE: [AquaticLife] Picked up my 65 gallon tonight

IF it is a 65G, from looking at her pictures , it is probably a 48" x 18" footprint but we need her to measure LxWxH to be sure. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Donna Ransome Sent: Saturday, September 12, 2009 8:07 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: Lenny--RE: [AquaticLife] Picked up my 65 gallon tonight What are the dimensions of the 65G? If it is not 48" long then you may find it VERY limiting if you want African cichlids. _____ From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Heather Sent: Saturday, September 12, 2009 12:14 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Lenny--RE: [AquaticLife] Picked up my 65 gallon tonight This stand is actually made out of 3/4 inch plywood which has a center cabinet with center supports on both sides of the cabinet door and then drawers on either side of the cabinet. Can I send pictures through the group...I will take some and send them through if I can. And yes Tim wants the african cichlids and he really likes convicts which I am also not so fond of...lol! Huge Hugs~Heather http://www.youravon <http://www.youravon.com/hbroschayt> .com/hbroschayt --- On Fri, 9/11/09, Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@gmail. <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com> com> wrote: From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@gmail. <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com> com> Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Picked up my 65 gallon tonight To: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com Date: Friday, September 11, 2009, 11:00 PM Did you say your LFS sold you the stand and the tank? Do they have the same foot print? The reason I ask is that most aquarium stands are designed for the four sides to carry the weight of the aquarium since the aquariums stand displaces all of the weight on the four bottom-sides of the tank's frame. If your stand is 60" x 24" and your tank is 48" x 18", then the stand's top may not be designed to hold your tank. The top may just be more of a decorative piece of wood or particle board where the stand is designed for the tank's four bottom-side framing sections to sit directly above the upright supports of the stand. This is another one of them physics problems that I understand in my head but may not be able to explain to others properly. Hopefully your LFS guy knows about this design feature in aquarium stands. If you can give me dimensions (mainly the footprint - L x W dimensions) of the tank and stand and the manufacturer and/or model number of the stand, I would be able to check this out and advise better. I just don't want you to wake up to a disaster one day. BTW... Angelfish are cichlids so you could get them and he should be happy. Of course, he probably wants African Cichlids and Angelfish are S. American Cichlids. If that is the case, then they would not mix, although some species might work but it wouldn't be the best thing for the fish since their water parameter preferences are much different. As far as easy plants, see my blog article, "Planted Tank - So You Want A Planted Tank?" which has LOTS of info and links to other sites with LOTS more info for beginners who want a planted tank including lots of choices of good beginner plants that are easy to grow. If he also likes the idea of a planted tank, then your Angelfish Cichlids and maybe a S. American Biotope would be the way to go since African Cichlids like rocks and lots of rocks... not plants. I hope you get this reply. I know you recently said you were not getting email from the group properly... dang Yahoo! Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com [mailto:AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com] On Behalf Of Heather Sent: Friday, September 11, 2009 10:22 PM To: aquatic life Subject: [AquaticLife] Picked up my 65 gallon tonight Well I went and picked up my 65 gallon tank tonight and a stand that is actually for a 125 gallon but it was free and has lower cabinets and drawers which is awesome. Our local fish guy is a great guy. I also bought a Marineland Pro Series Bio Wheel Power Filter 400 for a great price which he told me was a great filter but that I might eventually need a second one depending on what kind of fish we decide on but I want this to be a heavily planted tank so not sure I will need a second filter. Also picked up another 29 for very cheap which I will set up for my albino clawed frog. So all in all the guppies and platies with stay in their 29 and the frog will be switched over from a 10 to a 29 and in a few months we will start to add fish to the new tank. We will not be setting up the new tank until we clean, sand down and restain the stand and then will take it through the fishless cycling and then we will begin to add fish. My fiance really wants to go with cichlids but Im not so sure thats what I want. I want to be able to have angels as I really like angels and my favorite of course is danios and I want them and cichlids would make that impossible so we are still discussing what type of fish to put in so it may be quite some time before we make any decisions and actually add fish. I also would like this to be a planted tank so I will probably start on that part right away after we get it all set up. I can go ahead and begin to put aquatic plants in right away after it is set up...right? I always added my plants quite a bit after my fish in the past and have never had a tank as planted as I would like this one to be so I would love some advice on the easiest aquatic plants to care for in a heavily planted tank and what else I would need to keep them healthy and well living...lol! I know I have rambled on and on but I am excited about the new tank and about getting plants into and eventually fish and would love any suggestions on the plant topic because I am still very new at the whole aquatic plant thing. My frog tank has a few plants but I havent had to do much for them and my tanks in the past had some that my pleco usually ended up shredding which wasnt so pretty....lol and Ihad some duckweed in one of my 55's which took over and I didnt like that much. Anyway thanks for listening to me ramble about my new tanks and again any advice, tips, suggestions are more than welcome. Heather

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 43381	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 9/12/2009
Subject: Re: Lenny--RE: [AquaticLife] Picked up my 65 gallon tonight

Oops.. you answered. I just hadn't gotten to it yet. There's still the issue of Heather wanting a planted tank and hubby wanting an African Cichlid tank. Might I suggest Rock, Paper, Scissors... or maybe thumb wrestling? LOL Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Heather Sent: Saturday, September 12, 2009 8:49 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: Lenny--RE: [AquaticLife] Picked up my 65 gallon tonight Its 48 inches long 18 inches wide. Heather --- On Sat, 9/12/09, Donna Ransome <djransome@...> wrote: From: Donna Ransome <djransome@...> Subject: RE: Lenny--RE: [AquaticLife] Picked up my 65 gallon tonight To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Date: Saturday, September 12, 2009, 8:06 AM   What are the dimensions of the 65G? If it is not 48” long then you may find it VERY limiting if you want African cichlids. _____ From: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com [mailto:AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com] On Behalf Of Heather Sent: Saturday, September 12, 2009 12:14 AM To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com Subject: Lenny--RE: [AquaticLife] Picked up my 65 gallon tonight This stand is actually made out of 3/4 inch plywood which has a center cabinet with center supports on both sides of the cabinet door and then drawers on either side of the cabinet. Can I send pictures through the group...I will take some and send them through if I can. And yes Tim wants the african cichlids and he really likes convicts which I am also not so fond of...lol! Huge Hugs~Heather http://www.youravon <http://www.youravon .com/hbroschayt> .com/hbroschayt --- On Fri, 9/11/09, Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@gmail. <mailto:GoldLenny% 40gmail.com> com> wrote: From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@gmail. <mailto:GoldLenny% 40gmail.com> com> Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Picked up my 65 gallon tonight To: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife %40yahoogroups. com> yahoogroups. com Date: Friday, September 11, 2009, 11:00 PM Did you say your LFS sold you the stand and the tank? Do they have the same foot print? The reason I ask is that most aquarium stands are designed for the four sides to carry the weight of the aquarium since the aquariums stand displaces all of the weight on the four bottom-sides of the tank's frame. If your stand is 60" x 24" and your tank is 48" x 18", then the stand's top may not be designed to hold your tank. The top may just be more of a decorative piece of wood or particle board where the stand is designed for the tank's four bottom-side framing sections to sit directly above the upright supports of the stand. This is another one of them physics problems that I understand in my head but may not be able to explain to others properly. Hopefully your LFS guy knows about this design feature in aquarium stands. If you can give me dimensions (mainly the footprint - L x W dimensions) of the tank and stand and the manufacturer and/or model number of the stand, I would be able to check this out and advise better. I just don't want you to wake up to a disaster one day. BTW... Angelfish are cichlids so you could get them and he should be happy. Of course, he probably wants African Cichlids and Angelfish are S. American Cichlids. If that is the case, then they would not mix, although some species might work but it wouldn't be the best thing for the fish since their water parameter preferences are much different. As far as easy plants, see my blog article, "Planted Tank - So You Want A Planted Tank?" which has LOTS of info and links to other sites with LOTS more info for beginners who want a planted tank including lots of choices of good beginner plants that are easy to grow. If he also likes the idea of a planted tank, then your Angelfish Cichlids and maybe a S. American Biotope would be the way to go since African Cichlids like rocks and lots of rocks... not plants. I hope you get this reply. I know you recently said you were not getting email from the group properly... dang Yahoo! Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com [mailto:AquaticLife @ yahoogroups. com] On Behalf Of Heather Sent: Friday, September 11, 2009 10:22 PM To: aquatic life Subject: [AquaticLife] Picked up my 65 gallon tonight Well I went and picked up my 65 gallon tank tonight and a stand that is actually for a 125 gallon but it was free and has lower cabinets and drawers which is awesome. Our local fish guy is a great guy. I also bought a Marineland Pro Series Bio Wheel Power Filter 400 for a great price which he told me was a great filter but that I might eventually need a second one depending on what kind of fish we decide on but I want this to be a heavily planted tank so not sure I will need a second filter. Also picked up another 29 for very cheap which I will set up for my albino clawed frog. So all in all the guppies and platies with stay in their 29 and the frog will be switched over from a 10 to a 29 and in a few months we will start to add fish to the new tank. We will not be setting up the new tank until we clean, sand down and restain the stand and then will take it through the fishless cycling and then we will begin to add fish. My fiance really wants to go with cichlids but Im not so sure thats what I want. I want to be able to have angels as I really like angels and my favorite of course is danios and I want them and cichlids would make that impossible so we are still discussing what type of fish to put in so it may be quite some time before we make any decisions and actually add fish. I also would like this to be a planted tank so I will probably start on that part right away after we get it all set up. I can go ahead and begin to put aquatic plants in right away after it is set up...right? I always added my plants quite a bit after my fish in the past and have never had a tank as planted as I would like this one to be so I would love some advice on the easiest aquatic plants to care for in a heavily planted tank and what else I would need to keep them healthy and well living...lol! I know I have rambled on and on but I am excited about the new tank and about getting plants into and eventually fish and would love any suggestions on the plant topic because I am still very new at the whole aquatic plant thing. My frog tank has a few plants but I havent had to do much for them and my tanks in the past had some that my pleco usually ended up shredding which wasnt so pretty....lol and Ihad some duckweed in one of my 55's which took over and I didnt like that much. Anyway thanks for listening to me ramble about my new tanks and again any advice, tips, suggestions are more than welcome. Heather [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] ------------------------------------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. `..><((((>.`..`.><((((> .`.. , .`..><((((> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <((((><.`..`.<((((><.`.. , .`..<((((><`.. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the home page. 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Group: AquaticLife	Message: 43382	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 9/12/2009
Subject: Re: Pics of my tank and stand

OK. As you can see, your 65G tank, with a 48" x 18" footprint will NOT be sitting directly on any of the primary structural tank stand framing sections. This is a concern to me. It may still work but I'd experiment with it OUTSIDE. Now possibly, there is a fix that would work, by putting a "new" top on the stand, right on top of the existing stand, but so the new top would sit on top of the outside framing sections of the stand so the new top is fully supported. That OSB top panel that is on the stand right now is NOT supported on top of the frame but rather inlaid into the top frame supports. It does probably benefit from support of the two inside cabinet upright OSB panels but that would not be enough for me to trust it. If you get either a custom cut piece of 3/4" plywood or hard-wood (like 8' long, 12" Oak Shelving where you would need two pieces and one would have to be cut length-wise to 7.5" wide and then both pieces cut to 75" long) and put this on top of the current stand, I would be more prone to trusting it. At least the new top would be fully supported by the outside framing of the tank stand and not just the OSB panels. As I said in my previous post, I think the top black frame of the tank was damaged by HOT lighting, either from a Saltwater lighting system that often uses Halogen lighting or other HOT lighting sources (normally these lighting systems are supported 8" to 12" above the tank so the heat doesn't affect the water temperature and/or tank frame but maybe they didn't read the instructions). The other possibility is it was a Reptile tank where heat lamps are used for the Reptile to sun itself and keep warm. If it was a Reptile tank, other issues pop up that I'm not sure if I believe 100% but there are reports that reptile urine that might soak into the silicone of a tank will then leach out into an aquarium and cause health issues. I'm not sure I buy this theory 100% because I'm pretty sure that reptile urine must find it's way into our ponds, lakes, rivers, etc., and the fish seem to do OK with it there. I'm almost positive I saw the Geico Gecko peeing in one of my ponds one day... when I switched to Progressive. ;-) You could always make a DIY Canopy for the top to cover up the damaged looking black framing and also add decorative molding along the outside of the tank stand to cover the black framing on the bottom. If you want some sites with DIY plans for canopies and stands to see what I'm talking about, let me know. I have dozens. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Heather Sent: Saturday, September 12, 2009 8:46 AM To: aquatic life Subject: [AquaticLife] Pics of my tank and stand  Pics are waiting approval on the group webpage under Heathers Photos. The stand is a tiny bit over 75 inches long by 19.5 inches wide all made with 3/4 inch plywood except the solid wood front and the two supports on either side of the middle cabinet are made with 1 inch thick plywood.  The tank is made with very thick tempered glass and all is in perfect shape except the top molding which has been torn up and melted and so on. Almost looks as if they were trying to trim it down to get a small filter to fit on. The molding is all intact and connected but looks horrible...lol! Heather

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 43383	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 9/12/2009
Subject: Re: Lenny--RE: [AquaticLife] Picked up my 65 gallon tonight

My 65G acrylic tank has a 48" x 18" footprint with 17" height. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Donna Ransome Sent: Saturday, September 12, 2009 9:42 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: Lenny--RE: [AquaticLife] Picked up my 65 gallon tonight Sounds like a 75G footprint.must be shorter than usual if it's 65G. But that footprint is good for Africans.you just would not want to mix them with angelfish. _____ From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Heather Sent: Saturday, September 12, 2009 9:49 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: Lenny--RE: [AquaticLife] Picked up my 65 gallon tonight Its 48 inches long 18 inches wide. Heather --- On Sat, 9/12/09, Donna Ransome <djransome@optonline <mailto:djransome%40optonline.net> .net> wrote: From: Donna Ransome <djransome@optonline <mailto:djransome%40optonline.net> .net> Subject: RE: Lenny--RE: [AquaticLife] Picked up my 65 gallon tonight To: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com Date: Saturday, September 12, 2009, 8:06 AM What are the dimensions of the 65G? If it is not 48" long then you may find it VERY limiting if you want African cichlids. _____ From: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com [mailto:AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com] On Behalf Of Heather Sent: Saturday, September 12, 2009 12:14 AM To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com Subject: Lenny--RE: [AquaticLife] Picked up my 65 gallon tonight This stand is actually made out of 3/4 inch plywood which has a center cabinet with center supports on both sides of the cabinet door and then drawers on either side of the cabinet. Can I send pictures through the group...I will take some and send them through if I can. And yes Tim wants the african cichlids and he really likes convicts which I am also not so fond of...lol! Huge Hugs~Heather http://www.youravon <http://www.youravon .com/hbroschayt> .com/hbroschayt --- On Fri, 9/11/09, Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@gmail. <mailto:GoldLenny% 40gmail.com> com> wrote: From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@gmail. <mailto:GoldLenny% 40gmail.com> com> Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Picked up my 65 gallon tonight To: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife %40yahoogroups. com> yahoogroups. com Date: Friday, September 11, 2009, 11:00 PM Did you say your LFS sold you the stand and the tank? Do they have the same foot print? The reason I ask is that most aquarium stands are designed for the four sides to carry the weight of the aquarium since the aquariums stand displaces all of the weight on the four bottom-sides of the tank's frame. If your stand is 60" x 24" and your tank is 48" x 18", then the stand's top may not be designed to hold your tank. The top may just be more of a decorative piece of wood or particle board where the stand is designed for the tank's four bottom-side framing sections to sit directly above the upright supports of the stand. This is another one of them physics problems that I understand in my head but may not be able to explain to others properly. Hopefully your LFS guy knows about this design feature in aquarium stands. If you can give me dimensions (mainly the footprint - L x W dimensions) of the tank and stand and the manufacturer and/or model number of the stand, I would be able to check this out and advise better. I just don't want you to wake up to a disaster one day. BTW... Angelfish are cichlids so you could get them and he should be happy. Of course, he probably wants African Cichlids and Angelfish are S. American Cichlids. If that is the case, then they would not mix, although some species might work but it wouldn't be the best thing for the fish since their water parameter preferences are much different. As far as easy plants, see my blog article, "Planted Tank - So You Want A Planted Tank?" which has LOTS of info and links to other sites with LOTS more info for beginners who want a planted tank including lots of choices of good beginner plants that are easy to grow. If he also likes the idea of a planted tank, then your Angelfish Cichlids and maybe a S. American Biotope would be the way to go since African Cichlids like rocks and lots of rocks... not plants. I hope you get this reply. I know you recently said you were not getting email from the group properly... dang Yahoo! Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com [mailto:AquaticLife @ yahoogroups. com] On Behalf Of Heather Sent: Friday, September 11, 2009 10:22 PM To: aquatic life Subject: [AquaticLife] Picked up my 65 gallon tonight Well I went and picked up my 65 gallon tank tonight and a stand that is actually for a 125 gallon but it was free and has lower cabinets and drawers which is awesome. Our local fish guy is a great guy. I also bought a Marineland Pro Series Bio Wheel Power Filter 400 for a great price which he told me was a great filter but that I might eventually need a second one depending on what kind of fish we decide on but I want this to be a heavily planted tank so not sure I will need a second filter. Also picked up another 29 for very cheap which I will set up for my albino clawed frog. So all in all the guppies and platies with stay in their 29 and the frog will be switched over from a 10 to a 29 and in a few months we will start to add fish to the new tank. We will not be setting up the new tank until we clean, sand down and restain the stand and then will take it through the fishless cycling and then we will begin to add fish. My fiance really wants to go with cichlids but Im not so sure thats what I want. I want to be able to have angels as I really like angels and my favorite of course is danios and I want them and cichlids would make that impossible so we are still discussing what type of fish to put in so it may be quite some time before we make any decisions and actually add fish. I also would like this to be a planted tank so I will probably start on that part right away after we get it all set up. I can go ahead and begin to put aquatic plants in right away after it is set up...right? I always added my plants quite a bit after my fish in the past and have never had a tank as planted as I would like this one to be so I would love some advice on the easiest aquatic plants to care for in a heavily planted tank and what else I would need to keep them healthy and well living...lol! I know I have rambled on and on but I am excited about the new tank and about getting plants into and eventually fish and would love any suggestions on the plant topic because I am still very new at the whole aquatic plant thing. My frog tank has a few plants but I havent had to do much for them and my tanks in the past had some that my pleco usually ended up shredding which wasnt so pretty....lol and Ihad some duckweed in one of my 55's which took over and I didnt like that much. Anyway thanks for listening to me ramble about my new tanks and again any advice, tips, suggestions are more than welcome. Heather [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] ------------------------------------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. 74/`7.88.><((((:>.74/`7.88.74/`7.8><((((:> 8.74/`7.8. , .74/`7..><((((:> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <:((((><.74/`7.88.74/`7.8<:((((><8.74/`7.8. , .74/`7..<:((((><74/`7.88. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the home page. Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com to receive the digest, which includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com for the No E-Mail option where you will still be able to read messages on the group and post replies. Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com to receive individual e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 43384	From: bill 1433	Date: 9/12/2009
Subject: Re: Air Pumps

Sorry, I didn't mean to jump off the track! From what was being described it sounded like they were looking to power two or three air devices. I naturally thought of the tubes for under gravel filters. Bill --- On Sat, 9/12/09, Steve Szabo <steve@...> wrote: > From: Steve Szabo <steve@...> > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: Air Pumps > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Date: Saturday, September 12, 2009, 11:33 AM > Bill, > > You cloud the discussion. This is not a conversation about > filtration, but in the use of air in the aquarium. Back in > the day, even before there were power heads, UGF's were > powered by air. I just needed an example of something that > would require a healthy amount of air to run, and that was > the first thing that came to poor, little, exhausted mind. > > If you are considering using air for any reason, you should > size the pump to the duties planned for it. If you get one > that does not have a large enough output, it will not > perform as expected, you will be disappointed, and the pump > may have a short lifespan. If the one you choose is too > large, you will need to bleed off the excess air produced or > the tank may be disrupted with currents and/or the air > powered device will not function properly, perhaps breaking > in the process. > > The best way I have found to bleed off air is with a two > way valve at the end of your distribution system, with a > pipe cleaner stuck into the open side of the valve. Adjust > the valve as needed to bleed off the excess air pressure. > The purpose of the pipe cleaner is to silence the release of > the air while also providing minimal back pressure. > > \\Steve// > > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] > On Behalf Of bill 1433 > Sent: Saturday, September 12, 2009 10:33 AM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: Air Pumps > > \\Steve// is right here but also, in mention of UFG? > > If your going to power Under Gravel Filters?  Your > best bet > is to simply use a power head to do it.  Not only will > you move > way more water but in the long run is cheaper and easier. > > If setting up a big tank, 55 or more, you don't put return > or > power tubes in each plate, one per plate with a power head > is > plenty. > > Bill > > --- On Fri, 9/11/09, Steve Szabo <steve@...> > wrote: > > > From: Steve Szabo <steve@...> > > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: Air Pumps > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > Date: Friday, September 11, 2009, 9:43 PM > > Do you mean how much air to provide a > > tank with using a pump, or how much oxygen and carbon > > dioxide should be in the water? > > > > If it is the former, enough to do the job you want it > to > > do. If you are using an air driven UGF, you'll need a > lot > > more air than if you want the pirate chest that uses > air to > > lift the lid as a large bubble of air is released. > > > > If you mean the latter, you want to look at 5-8 ppm > of > > oxygen. The higher your temperature, the less oxygen > the > > water can hold in solution. I do not know about the > > concentration of other gases in the water, but I do > know > > that I have seen a number for CO2, but it hasn't hung > around > > in my mind. > > > > \\Steve// > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] > > On Behalf Of biG poppa > > Sent: Friday, September 11, 2009 7:39 PM > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: Air Pumps > > > > here is a question for you Lenny whats the ratio of > air per > > gallon of water? > > > > --- On Fri, 9/11/09, Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@...> > > wrote: > > > > > > From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@...> > > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: Air Pumps > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > Date: Friday, September 11, 2009, 7:27 PM > > > > > >   > > > > > > > > That one seems like overkill for a single tank... or > were > > you planning on > > adding a few more now? I thought you were looking at > the > > low-$40's or lower > > price range. ;-) > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com > > (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are > listed > > on the right > > side, alphabetically under Labels and also under > Archives > > by Year, Month) > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com > [mailto:AquaticLife@ > > yahoogroups. com] On > > Behalf Of kuradi8 > > Sent: Friday, September 11, 2009 3:45 PM > > To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com > > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Air Pumps > > > > For those of you who might remember my air pump > dilemma, > > > > Well, I took the plunge. I'd had my eye on a Rena 400 > but > > got a good deal > > on one of these instead. This is not where I got the > pump > > from but this > > ebay listing describes it best: > > http://cgi.ebay. com/ws/eBayISAPI .dll?ViewItem& > > item=30034324493 9 > > > > It's for my 55g and will replace a very > disappointingly > > wimpy Whisper-60. I > > hope I chose well. Did I? > > ~Kai > > > > > ------------------------------------ > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when > replying, Thank You. > ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> > ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> > PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is > NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of > the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new > subject (was re: old subject)" <- > <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. > , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. > > If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of > unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by > clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the home page.  > > Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com > to receive the digest, which includes up to 25 posts at a > time in a single email > > Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com > for the No E-Mail option where you will still be able to > read messages on the group and post replies. > > Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com > to receive individual e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links > > >     mailto:AquaticLife-fullfeatured@yahoogroups.com > > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 43385	From: fishdudeut	Date: 9/12/2009
Subject: All Levels checked out.

Water test of 9/12/09 0 Ammonia 0 Nitrite 40/80 Nitrate PH 7.4 KH 3 GH 12 I tested today as you can see from above and everything was in line as should be. I added 10 ML ammonia and now just wait 'till tonight when I get home from work 9:00 PM MST or first thing in the morning and test again. Now if the ammonia and nitrites are 0 it should be time for a 90% water change and then it should be ready to add teh fish correct? Everything I have read tells me when nitrite and ammonia are 0 PPM you added a full enough ammonia to hit 5.0 PPM and them if it's gone within 24 hours you are ready to do the LARGE water change and then add fish. Am I missing anything? It's been a long road and had a PH crash as you know. If the nitrate and Ammonal are ZERO tomorrow or tonight is the tank cycled? If I'm unable to get the take stocked tomorrow do to work it'll have to be next weekend. Next weekend is not a big deal I just don't want to kill the cycle if I wait a week. Thanks for all the advice that has been giving to me along this long and drug out process. I'm sure I'll have many more questions, but I'm hoping the fishless cycle part is coming to an end.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 43386	From: Heather	Date: 9/12/2009
Subject: Re: Lenny--RE: [AquaticLife] Picked up my 65 gallon tonight

it is 21 inches tall...I do not know if that is short but it looks the same size as a 55 just much wider --- On Sat, 9/12/09, Donna Ransome <djransome@...> wrote: From: Donna Ransome <djransome@...> Subject: RE: Lenny--RE: [AquaticLife] Picked up my 65 gallon tonight To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Date: Saturday, September 12, 2009, 9:41 AM   Sounds like a 75G footprint.must be shorter than usual if it's 65G. But that footprint is good for Africans.you just would not want to mix them with angelfish. _____ From: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com [mailto:AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com] On Behalf Of Heather Sent: Saturday, September 12, 2009 9:49 AM To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com Subject: RE: Lenny--RE: [AquaticLife] Picked up my 65 gallon tonight Its 48 inches long 18 inches wide. Heather --- On Sat, 9/12/09, Donna Ransome <djransome@optonlin e <mailto:djransome% 40optonline. net> .net> wrote: From: Donna Ransome <djransome@optonlin e <mailto:djransome% 40optonline. net> .net> Subject: RE: Lenny--RE: [AquaticLife] Picked up my 65 gallon tonight To: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife %40yahoogroups. com> yahoogroups. com Date: Saturday, September 12, 2009, 8:06 AM What are the dimensions of the 65G? If it is not 48" long then you may find it VERY limiting if you want African cichlids. _____ From: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com [mailto:AquaticLife @ yahoogroups. com] On Behalf Of Heather Sent: Saturday, September 12, 2009 12:14 AM To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com Subject: Lenny--RE: [AquaticLife] Picked up my 65 gallon tonight This stand is actually made out of 3/4 inch plywood which has a center cabinet with center supports on both sides of the cabinet door and then drawers on either side of the cabinet. Can I send pictures through the group...I will take some and send them through if I can. And yes Tim wants the african cichlids and he really likes convicts which I am also not so fond of...lol! Huge Hugs~Heather http://www.youravon <http://www.youravon .com/hbroschayt> .com/hbroschayt --- On Fri, 9/11/09, Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@gmail. <mailto:GoldLenny% 40gmail.com> com> wrote: From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@gmail. <mailto:GoldLenny% 40gmail.com> com> Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Picked up my 65 gallon tonight To: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife %40yahoogroups. com> yahoogroups. com Date: Friday, September 11, 2009, 11:00 PM Did you say your LFS sold you the stand and the tank? Do they have the same foot print? The reason I ask is that most aquarium stands are designed for the four sides to carry the weight of the aquarium since the aquariums stand displaces all of the weight on the four bottom-sides of the tank's frame. If your stand is 60" x 24" and your tank is 48" x 18", then the stand's top may not be designed to hold your tank. The top may just be more of a decorative piece of wood or particle board where the stand is designed for the tank's four bottom-side framing sections to sit directly above the upright supports of the stand. This is another one of them physics problems that I understand in my head but may not be able to explain to others properly. Hopefully your LFS guy knows about this design feature in aquarium stands. If you can give me dimensions (mainly the footprint - L x W dimensions) of the tank and stand and the manufacturer and/or model number of the stand, I would be able to check this out and advise better. I just don't want you to wake up to a disaster one day. BTW... Angelfish are cichlids so you could get them and he should be happy. Of course, he probably wants African Cichlids and Angelfish are S. American Cichlids. If that is the case, then they would not mix, although some species might work but it wouldn't be the best thing for the fish since their water parameter preferences are much different. As far as easy plants, see my blog article, "Planted Tank - So You Want A Planted Tank?" which has LOTS of info and links to other sites with LOTS more info for beginners who want a planted tank including lots of choices of good beginner plants that are easy to grow. If he also likes the idea of a planted tank, then your Angelfish Cichlids and maybe a S. American Biotope would be the way to go since African Cichlids like rocks and lots of rocks... not plants. I hope you get this reply. I know you recently said you were not getting email from the group properly... dang Yahoo! Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com [mailto:AquaticLife @ yahoogroups. com] On Behalf Of Heather Sent: Friday, September 11, 2009 10:22 PM To: aquatic life Subject: [AquaticLife] Picked up my 65 gallon tonight Well I went and picked up my 65 gallon tank tonight and a stand that is actually for a 125 gallon but it was free and has lower cabinets and drawers which is awesome. Our local fish guy is a great guy. I also bought a Marineland Pro Series Bio Wheel Power Filter 400 for a great price which he told me was a great filter but that I might eventually need a second one depending on what kind of fish we decide on but I want this to be a heavily planted tank so not sure I will need a second filter. Also picked up another 29 for very cheap which I will set up for my albino clawed frog. So all in all the guppies and platies with stay in their 29 and the frog will be switched over from a 10 to a 29 and in a few months we will start to add fish to the new tank. We will not be setting up the new tank until we clean, sand down and restain the stand and then will take it through the fishless cycling and then we will begin to add fish. My fiance really wants to go with cichlids but Im not so sure thats what I want. I want to be able to have angels as I really like angels and my favorite of course is danios and I want them and cichlids would make that impossible so we are still discussing what type of fish to put in so it may be quite some time before we make any decisions and actually add fish. I also would like this to be a planted tank so I will probably start on that part right away after we get it all set up. I can go ahead and begin to put aquatic plants in right away after it is set up...right? I always added my plants quite a bit after my fish in the past and have never had a tank as planted as I would like this one to be so I would love some advice on the easiest aquatic plants to care for in a heavily planted tank and what else I would need to keep them healthy and well living...lol! I know I have rambled on and on but I am excited about the new tank and about getting plants into and eventually fish and would love any suggestions on the plant topic because I am still very new at the whole aquatic plant thing. My frog tank has a few plants but I havent had to do much for them and my tanks in the past had some that my pleco usually ended up shredding which wasnt so pretty....lol and Ihad some duckweed in one of my 55's which took over and I didnt like that much. Anyway thanks for listening to me ramble about my new tanks and again any advice, tips, suggestions are more than welcome. Heather [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 43387	From: Heather	Date: 9/12/2009
Subject: Re: Pics of my tank and stand

I would love the sites you have on the DIY molding because Tim is running ideas through his head already to cover the existing molding and make it look nicer. I also think your idea about putting a new top on so it will be supported is a great idea and it just so happens at my work (I am a cook at a country club) a HUGE oak tree was knocked down by a storm awhile back and they are getting ready to cut it up so I could have them cut me a slab to fit the top and it would look much better than what is on there now...that would work right? How thick should it be? Heather --- On Sat, 9/12/09, Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@...> wrote: From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@...> Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Pics of my tank and stand To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Date: Saturday, September 12, 2009, 11:06 AM   OK. As you can see, your 65G tank, with a 48" x 18" footprint will NOT be sitting directly on any of the primary structural tank stand framing sections. This is a concern to me. It may still work but I'd experiment with it OUTSIDE. Now possibly, there is a fix that would work, by putting a "new" top on the stand, right on top of the existing stand, but so the new top would sit on top of the outside framing sections of the stand so the new top is fully supported. That OSB top panel that is on the stand right now is NOT supported on top of the frame but rather inlaid into the top frame supports. It does probably benefit from support of the two inside cabinet upright OSB panels but that would not be enough for me to trust it. If you get either a custom cut piece of 3/4" plywood or hard-wood (like 8' long, 12" Oak Shelving where you would need two pieces and one would have to be cut length-wise to 7.5" wide and then both pieces cut to 75" long) and put this on top of the current stand, I would be more prone to trusting it. At least the new top would be fully supported by the outside framing of the tank stand and not just the OSB panels. As I said in my previous post, I think the top black frame of the tank was damaged by HOT lighting, either from a Saltwater lighting system that often uses Halogen lighting or other HOT lighting sources (normally these lighting systems are supported 8" to 12" above the tank so the heat doesn't affect the water temperature and/or tank frame but maybe they didn't read the instructions) . The other possibility is it was a Reptile tank where heat lamps are used for the Reptile to sun itself and keep warm. If it was a Reptile tank, other issues pop up that I'm not sure if I believe 100% but there are reports that reptile urine that might soak into the silicone of a tank will then leach out into an aquarium and cause health issues. I'm not sure I buy this theory 100% because I'm pretty sure that reptile urine must find it's way into our ponds, lakes, rivers, etc., and the fish seem to do OK with it there. I'm almost positive I saw the Geico Gecko peeing in one of my ponds one day... when I switched to Progressive. ;-) You could always make a DIY Canopy for the top to cover up the damaged looking black framing and also add decorative molding along the outside of the tank stand to cover the black framing on the bottom. If you want some sites with DIY plans for canopies and stands to see what I'm talking about, let me know. I have dozens. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com [mailto:AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com] On Behalf Of Heather Sent: Saturday, September 12, 2009 8:46 AM To: aquatic life Subject: [AquaticLife] Pics of my tank and stand  Pics are waiting approval on the group webpage under Heathers Photos. The stand is a tiny bit over 75 inches long by 19.5 inches wide all made with 3/4 inch plywood except the solid wood front and the two supports on either side of the middle cabinet are made with 1 inch thick plywood.  The tank is made with very thick tempered glass and all is in perfect shape except the top molding which has been torn up and melted and so on. Almost looks as if they were trying to trim it down to get a small filter to fit on. The molding is all intact and connected but looks horrible...lol! Heather [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 43388	From: Heather	Date: 9/12/2009
Subject: Re: Lenny--RE: [AquaticLife] Picked up my 65 gallon tonight

We agreed on a tank that angels could be in safely so african cichlids are a no go...I won...I won...lol! Heather --- On Sat, 9/12/09, Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@...> wrote: From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@...> Subject: RE: Lenny--RE: [AquaticLife] Picked up my 65 gallon tonight To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Date: Saturday, September 12, 2009, 10:45 AM   Oops.. you answered. I just hadn't gotten to it yet. There's still the issue of Heather wanting a planted tank and hubby wanting an African Cichlid tank. Might I suggest Rock, Paper, Scissors... or maybe thumb wrestling? LOL Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com [mailto:AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com] On Behalf Of Heather Sent: Saturday, September 12, 2009 8:49 AM To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com Subject: RE: Lenny--RE: [AquaticLife] Picked up my 65 gallon tonight Its 48 inches long 18 inches wide. Heather --- On Sat, 9/12/09, Donna Ransome <djransome@optonline .net> wrote: From: Donna Ransome <djransome@optonline .net> Subject: RE: Lenny--RE: [AquaticLife] Picked up my 65 gallon tonight To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com Date: Saturday, September 12, 2009, 8:06 AM   What are the dimensions of the 65G? If it is not 48” long then you may find it VERY limiting if you want African cichlids. _____ From: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com [mailto:AquaticLife @ yahoogroups. com] On Behalf Of Heather Sent: Saturday, September 12, 2009 12:14 AM To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com Subject: Lenny--RE: [AquaticLife] Picked up my 65 gallon tonight This stand is actually made out of 3/4 inch plywood which has a center cabinet with center supports on both sides of the cabinet door and then drawers on either side of the cabinet. Can I send pictures through the group...I will take some and send them through if I can. And yes Tim wants the african cichlids and he really likes convicts which I am also not so fond of...lol! Huge Hugs~Heather http://www.youravon <http://www.youravon .com/hbroschayt> .com/hbroschayt --- On Fri, 9/11/09, Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@gmail. <mailto:GoldLenny% 40gmail.com> com> wrote: From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@gmail. <mailto:GoldLenny% 40gmail.com> com> Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Picked up my 65 gallon tonight To: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife %40yahoogroups. com> yahoogroups. com Date: Friday, September 11, 2009, 11:00 PM Did you say your LFS sold you the stand and the tank? Do they have the same foot print? The reason I ask is that most aquarium stands are designed for the four sides to carry the weight of the aquarium since the aquariums stand displaces all of the weight on the four bottom-sides of the tank's frame. If your stand is 60" x 24" and your tank is 48" x 18", then the stand's top may not be designed to hold your tank. The top may just be more of a decorative piece of wood or particle board where the stand is designed for the tank's four bottom-side framing sections to sit directly above the upright supports of the stand. This is another one of them physics problems that I understand in my head but may not be able to explain to others properly. Hopefully your LFS guy knows about this design feature in aquarium stands. If you can give me dimensions (mainly the footprint - L x W dimensions) of the tank and stand and the manufacturer and/or model number of the stand, I would be able to check this out and advise better. I just don't want you to wake up to a disaster one day. BTW... Angelfish are cichlids so you could get them and he should be happy. Of course, he probably wants African Cichlids and Angelfish are S. American Cichlids. If that is the case, then they would not mix, although some species might work but it wouldn't be the best thing for the fish since their water parameter preferences are much different. As far as easy plants, see my blog article, "Planted Tank - So You Want A Planted Tank?" which has LOTS of info and links to other sites with LOTS more info for beginners who want a planted tank including lots of choices of good beginner plants that are easy to grow. If he also likes the idea of a planted tank, then your Angelfish Cichlids and maybe a S. American Biotope would be the way to go since African Cichlids like rocks and lots of rocks... not plants. I hope you get this reply. I know you recently said you were not getting email from the group properly... dang Yahoo! Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com [mailto:AquaticLife @ yahoogroups. com] On Behalf Of Heather Sent: Friday, September 11, 2009 10:22 PM To: aquatic life Subject: [AquaticLife] Picked up my 65 gallon tonight Well I went and picked up my 65 gallon tank tonight and a stand that is actually for a 125 gallon but it was free and has lower cabinets and drawers which is awesome. Our local fish guy is a great guy. I also bought a Marineland Pro Series Bio Wheel Power Filter 400 for a great price which he told me was a great filter but that I might eventually need a second one depending on what kind of fish we decide on but I want this to be a heavily planted tank so not sure I will need a second filter. Also picked up another 29 for very cheap which I will set up for my albino clawed frog. So all in all the guppies and platies with stay in their 29 and the frog will be switched over from a 10 to a 29 and in a few months we will start to add fish to the new tank. We will not be setting up the new tank until we clean, sand down and restain the stand and then will take it through the fishless cycling and then we will begin to add fish. My fiance really wants to go with cichlids but Im not so sure thats what I want. I want to be able to have angels as I really like angels and my favorite of course is danios and I want them and cichlids would make that impossible so we are still discussing what type of fish to put in so it may be quite some time before we make any decisions and actually add fish. I also would like this to be a planted tank so I will probably start on that part right away after we get it all set up. I can go ahead and begin to put aquatic plants in right away after it is set up...right? I always added my plants quite a bit after my fish in the past and have never had a tank as planted as I would like this one to be so I would love some advice on the easiest aquatic plants to care for in a heavily planted tank and what else I would need to keep them healthy and well living...lol! I know I have rambled on and on but I am excited about the new tank and about getting plants into and eventually fish and would love any suggestions on the plant topic because I am still very new at the whole aquatic plant thing. My frog tank has a few plants but I havent had to do much for them and my tanks in the past had some that my pleco usually ended up shredding which wasnt so pretty....lol and Ihad some duckweed in one of my 55's which took over and I didnt like that much. Anyway thanks for listening to me ramble about my new tanks and again any advice, tips, suggestions are more than welcome. Heather [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] ------------ --------- --------- ------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. `..><((((>.` ..`.><((( (> .`.. , .`..><((((> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <((((><.`..` .<((((><. `.. , .`..<((((><` .. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the home page. Or e-mail aquaticlife- digest@yahoogrou ps.com to receive the digest, which includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email Or email aquaticlife- nomail@yahoogrou ps.com for the No E-Mail option where you will still be able to read messages on the group and post replies. Or email aquaticlife- normal@yahoogrou ps.com to receive individual e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 43389	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 9/12/2009
Subject: Re: All Levels checked out.

Yes, you are correct.. for the most part. Read on. Now you just want to plan the next stage so that you do not leave the BIG colony of nitrifying bacteria without any food for too long or they will start to die off. When you are sure you will be getting your fish, the night before you go pick them up, do the 90% PWC and maybe dose one more time with ammonia if you like. I usually did just to be sure. Then the next morning, go get your fish, bring them home, test the water in their bags (or better yet, also test the water from the tanks where they came from also as this will be their baseline and the bag water might change due to added O2 to the bag, how long they stay in the bag, etc.) and start the acclimation process. Slow is better in most cases but certain cases require getting the fish out of the bags and water quickly if they are under distress in the bags. This will usually take an hour or two depending on how much different the water parameters are from the bag and your tank and the condition of the fish in the bags. If all the fish come from the same tank, at least you only have to use one container for all the fish for acclimating, instead of trying to acclimate each bag separately. See these articles for acclimation info. http://www.csupomona.edu/~jskoga/Aquariums/Acclimation.html http://www.fishlore.com/acclimating-tropicalfish.htm If you haven't taken TheKrib's fish keeping tutorial which I have as a BIG thing to do on my "A to Z of Fish Keeping..." article on my blog, here's one of the pages from the tutorial which includes buying and acclimating your fish, although they use the quick acclimation process of just floating the bag, etc., which is not always the best method but works in most cases. http://faq.thekrib.com/begin-addfish.html On my "A to Z..." page, I have two free online tutorials that might answer most of your questions and probably give you dozens of more questions. There's also a neat little online test to take on another site that I like. If you have to wait another week, just keep feeding the ammonia daily or twice daily and do PWC's as needed if your KH or pH starts to drop too fast, before it gets to the crash point. Then plan your 90% PWC and getting the fish as described above. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of fishdudeut Sent: Saturday, September 12, 2009 11:28 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] All Levels checked out. Water test of 9/12/09 0 Ammonia 0 Nitrite 40/80 Nitrate PH 7.4 KH 3 GH 12 I tested today as you can see from above and everything was in line as should be. I added 10 ML ammonia and now just wait 'till tonight when I get home from work 9:00 PM MST or first thing in the morning and test again. Now if the ammonia and nitrites are 0 it should be time for a 90% water change and then it should be ready to add teh fish correct? Everything I have read tells me when nitrite and ammonia are 0 PPM you added a full enough ammonia to hit 5.0 PPM and them if it's gone within 24 hours you are ready to do the LARGE water change and then add fish. Am I missing anything? It's been a long road and had a PH crash as you know. If the nitrate and Ammonal are ZERO tomorrow or tonight is the tank cycled? If I'm unable to get the take stocked tomorrow do to work it'll have to be next weekend. Next weekend is not a big deal I just don't want to kill the cycle if I wait a week. Thanks for all the advice that has been giving to me along this long and drug out process. I'm sure I'll have many more questions, but I'm hoping the fishless cycle part is coming to an end.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 43390	From: Heather	Date: 9/12/2009
Subject: Re: Have a question about tank molding

Ok first question. The front and back of the tank barely sit on the front and back of the stand but do sit on the upright front and back portions a tiny bit. The front and back of the tank are a little less than 1/2 inch from the very edge of the stand. The middle upright sections support the center of the tank perfectly even on each side. Second question yes I saw the tank full and had to wait for her to switch over to her new 90 gallon tank...waited 4 weeks. She assumes it was always used as a fish tank but does not know this for sure but she does know there were fish in it before she bought it from the owner before her. Also already did the fill up and check for no leaks outside just to be safe as thats a lot of water to go all over the living room and the ride back home was a little rough after picking up the tank...lol! The stuff that they used to fill in the middle brace is not soft and rubbery like silicone it is very hard like plastic. Ok I think that is all of your questions. --- On Sat, 9/12/09, Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@...> wrote: From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@...> Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Have a question about tank molding To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Date: Saturday, September 12, 2009, 10:19 AM   If the middle brace is not completely broken, then it is probably mechanically sound, just maybe not pretty. Using a 1/8" thick piece of plastic, cut to the same size as the brace and epoxied in place would at least cover up the "horrible" looking piece and give you piece of mind that the damaged section will never be a problem in the future. I'm looking at your pictures now, http://groups. yahoo.com/ group/AquaticLif e/photos/ album/1174204113 /pic/list? m ode=tn&order= ordinal&start= 1&dir=asc Your stand is definitely a DIY Tank Stand. While much of the stand appears to be framed in hardwood (looks like 1" x 4" sections, the top, rear and bottom panels are made with fiberboard (officially called OSB - Oriented Strand Board), not plywood. OSB is strong and many say as strong as plywood but due to it's make up, it can be compromised easier than plywood, in my opinion and experience, especially when constantly exposed to water, which is not a problem for you unless you had a constantly leaking tank. I've seen houses where either plywood or OSB was used and when both were exposed to flood waters (Katrina), the plywood remained structurally OK while the OSB was deteriorated severely, similar to what happens with particle board when exposed to water except particle board is 100 times worse than OSB. OSB is made by taking shredded wood (made from scraps of wood) and then mixing it in a resin and pressing it into sheets. Particle board is made from taking ground up wood, almost like sawdust, mixing it with resin and pouring it into sheets. OK... enough about wood manufacturing and back to your stand. As you can see, there are 1" x 4" sections outlining the top and these sections sit on top of other 1" x 4" sections and those upright 1" x 4" sections sit on top of the base which is also made up of 1" x 4" sections. For a stand made for such a large tank, I would probably have used 2" x 4"s (which is what I used on my DIY Tank Stand for my 65G - see my blog article) but they also incorporated the OSB to provide additional structural stability so I'm sure it's OK. The problem comes with your smaller tank sitting on it. The BIG questions... . Will your tank bottom-front & back frame sections sit on top of the front and back 1" x 4" sections of the top or just on the OSB panel in the middle? Will your tank's bottom-end frame sections sit on the OSB top where it is supported by the upright OSB panels that enclose the middle cabinet area or not? If you give me dimensions of the stand and tank, I could better assess these questions unless you understand the questions I am asking and can make your own assessment. Now, onto your tank. I misunderstood you when you were saying about the top frame. It's not just the middle brace, which runs across open space and just connects the front and back frame sections in the middle of the tank. It looks like the entire top frame has areas of melted damage. I would suspect this was previously a Saltwater Tank or possibly even a Reptile tank as both of these would use lighting that is usually much hotter than the relatively cool lighting that we usually use on our freshwater tanks. Did you see this tank in use as an aquarium, filled up with water or has it only been empty? Also, ask the previous owner for more info on the history of the tank. Also, if you did not see this tank in use as an aquarium, I would take it outside, on a flat and secure surface, and fill it up to test it out. While it may still be perfectly sound, it has definitely seen some abuse in it's lifetime. I would definitely reinforce that top middle brace just to provide more security that the front and back top frame sections will not bow out when the tank is filled up. Since those sections show some melting damage as well, I would worry that the bowing might cause cracking in the melted sections. The end top frame sections are not really an issue since the glass panes are not long like the front and back panes so the shorter panes are not as subject to bowing as the front and back sections. Believe me, I've seen tanks that either did not have a middle top brace or it was removed and when folks would fill up the tank, the front and back would bow out an inch or two.... very scary looking to me but the people would say, "It's been like that for years", so go figure. Thin glass is very flexible but at a certain point it will develop stress cracks and eventually shatter, which is why the top and bottom frames have those middle braces on larger tanks. If the tank is made with thicker glass, then the middle braces are not as much of an issue. On a side note, the middle top brace does not appear to be filled with silicone to me, but rather an epoxy or fiberglass filler, which would provide more structural stability than silicone. When you touch the whitish colored repaired section, is it soft like silicone (rubbery) or is it hard/rigid, like epoxy or fiberglass would be? Of course, OLD silicone also gets hard but usually starts visibly cracking when that happens. Try to read through this and answer every question I've asked. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com [mailto:AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com] On Behalf Of Heather Sent: Saturday, September 12, 2009 12:10 AM To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Have a question about tank molding  No they were basically just filling in the hole/huge space left over after it was melted and it looks horrible and I am sure would not give anything much support. I think your idea sounds great and yes like it would be much easier than replacing the moldings. I will take pictures of everything first thing in the morning and either post them on my photobucket account and send a link or upload them to the groups photos page. Heather   --- On Sat, 9/12/09, Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@gmail. com> wrote: From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@gmail. com> Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Have a question about tank molding To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com Date: Saturday, September 12, 2009, 12:00 AM   I don't think you would want to or need to replace the top framing. It's a lot of work for a minor repair. You can simply repair that center brace by scraping off the silicone and then getting a piece of plastic or maybe 1/8" plexiglass, long enough to cover the entire broken brace, then use a 2-part epoxy to glue the repair strip to the top of the current bracket. This bracket is not a major support bracket but it does provide support to keep the long sides of the tank from bowing outward when filled with water. I'm not sure I would rely on silicone to repair this, especially if the silicone is only "gluing" the broken parts together. Now, if they used a strip, like I just described and used silicone as the adhesive, that seems like it would be sufficient. Take some pics of this brace and the repair so I can give better info on this also. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com [mailto:AquaticLife @ yahoogroups. com] On Behalf Of Heather Sent: Friday, September 11, 2009 11:48 PM To: Aquatic Life Subject: [AquaticLife] Have a question about tank molding Where could I buy new moldings for tanks? The center bar on the 65 looks as if someone had a light of some sort laying right on it and it melted and then was fixed with silicone and we would like to replace the entire top molding and bottom if need be to make it match...lol! Any suggestions on where I can pick this up or order this? Huge Hugs~Heather http://www.youravon .com/hbroschayt [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] ------------ --------- --------- ------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the home page. Or e-mail aquaticlife- digest@yahoogrou ps.com to receive the digest, which includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email Or email aquaticlife- nomail@yahoogrou ps.com for the No E-Mail option where you will still be able to read messages on the group and post replies. Or email aquaticlife- normal@yahoogrou ps.com to receive individual e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 43391	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 9/12/2009
Subject: Re: Lenny--RE: [AquaticLife] Picked up my 65 gallon tonight

Well, I'm SORRY to say that your tank is not a 65G tank. It's BIGGER!!!! Yippeee!!!! 48 x 18 x 21 = 18,144 / 231 = 78.5 Gallons. Probably sold as a 75G, some might call it an 80G. A 65G is only 17" high/tall (48 x 18 x 17 / 231 = 63.6G and sold as a 65G). Most tanks are rounded up to the next 5G mark, which is why many might sell your tank as an 80G. But this also means about another 100 pounds of weight on the stand (water weighs around 8 pound per gallon plus the weight of the tank, gravel, etc., so I always round up to 10 pounds per gallon when considering weight). Since your stand was not designed for that tank, that raises more concerns about making sure to do some minor reinforcing of the top of the stand as I described in an earlier post in that thread. I'll answer your stand questions in that thread. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Heather Sent: Saturday, September 12, 2009 9:59 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: Lenny--RE: [AquaticLife] Picked up my 65 gallon tonight it is 21 inches tall...I do not know if that is short but it looks the same size as a 55 just much wider --- On Sat, 9/12/09, Donna Ransome <djransome@...> wrote: From: Donna Ransome <djransome@...> Subject: RE: Lenny--RE: [AquaticLife] Picked up my 65 gallon tonight To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Date: Saturday, September 12, 2009, 9:41 AM   Sounds like a 75G footprint.must be shorter than usual if it's 65G. But that footprint is good for Africans.you just would not want to mix them with angelfish. _____ From: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com [mailto:AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com] On Behalf Of Heather Sent: Saturday, September 12, 2009 9:49 AM To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com Subject: RE: Lenny--RE: [AquaticLife] Picked up my 65 gallon tonight Its 48 inches long 18 inches wide. Heather --- On Sat, 9/12/09, Donna Ransome <djransome@optonlin e <mailto:djransome% 40optonline. net> .net> wrote: From: Donna Ransome <djransome@optonlin e <mailto:djransome% 40optonline. net> .net> Subject: RE: Lenny--RE: [AquaticLife] Picked up my 65 gallon tonight To: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife %40yahoogroups. com> yahoogroups. com Date: Saturday, September 12, 2009, 8:06 AM What are the dimensions of the 65G? If it is not 48" long then you may find it VERY limiting if you want African cichlids. _____ From: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com [mailto:AquaticLife @ yahoogroups. com] On Behalf Of Heather Sent: Saturday, September 12, 2009 12:14 AM To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com Subject: Lenny--RE: [AquaticLife] Picked up my 65 gallon tonight This stand is actually made out of 3/4 inch plywood which has a center cabinet with center supports on both sides of the cabinet door and then drawers on either side of the cabinet. Can I send pictures through the group...I will take some and send them through if I can. And yes Tim wants the african cichlids and he really likes convicts which I am also not so fond of...lol! Huge Hugs~Heather http://www.youravon <http://www.youravon .com/hbroschayt> .com/hbroschayt --- On Fri, 9/11/09, Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@gmail. <mailto:GoldLenny% 40gmail.com> com> wrote: From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@gmail. <mailto:GoldLenny% 40gmail.com> com> Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Picked up my 65 gallon tonight To: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife %40yahoogroups. com> yahoogroups. com Date: Friday, September 11, 2009, 11:00 PM Did you say your LFS sold you the stand and the tank? Do they have the same foot print? The reason I ask is that most aquarium stands are designed for the four sides to carry the weight of the aquarium since the aquariums stand displaces all of the weight on the four bottom-sides of the tank's frame. If your stand is 60" x 24" and your tank is 48" x 18", then the stand's top may not be designed to hold your tank. The top may just be more of a decorative piece of wood or particle board where the stand is designed for the tank's four bottom-side framing sections to sit directly above the upright supports of the stand. This is another one of them physics problems that I understand in my head but may not be able to explain to others properly. Hopefully your LFS guy knows about this design feature in aquarium stands. If you can give me dimensions (mainly the footprint - L x W dimensions) of the tank and stand and the manufacturer and/or model number of the stand, I would be able to check this out and advise better. I just don't want you to wake up to a disaster one day. BTW... Angelfish are cichlids so you could get them and he should be happy. Of course, he probably wants African Cichlids and Angelfish are S. American Cichlids. If that is the case, then they would not mix, although some species might work but it wouldn't be the best thing for the fish since their water parameter preferences are much different. As far as easy plants, see my blog article, "Planted Tank - So You Want A Planted Tank?" which has LOTS of info and links to other sites with LOTS more info for beginners who want a planted tank including lots of choices of good beginner plants that are easy to grow. If he also likes the idea of a planted tank, then your Angelfish Cichlids and maybe a S. American Biotope would be the way to go since African Cichlids like rocks and lots of rocks... not plants. I hope you get this reply. I know you recently said you were not getting email from the group properly... dang Yahoo! Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com [mailto:AquaticLife @ yahoogroups. com] On Behalf Of Heather Sent: Friday, September 11, 2009 10:22 PM To: aquatic life Subject: [AquaticLife] Picked up my 65 gallon tonight Well I went and picked up my 65 gallon tank tonight and a stand that is actually for a 125 gallon but it was free and has lower cabinets and drawers which is awesome. Our local fish guy is a great guy. I also bought a Marineland Pro Series Bio Wheel Power Filter 400 for a great price which he told me was a great filter but that I might eventually need a second one depending on what kind of fish we decide on but I want this to be a heavily planted tank so not sure I will need a second filter. Also picked up another 29 for very cheap which I will set up for my albino clawed frog. So all in all the guppies and platies with stay in their 29 and the frog will be switched over from a 10 to a 29 and in a few months we will start to add fish to the new tank. We will not be setting up the new tank until we clean, sand down and restain the stand and then will take it through the fishless cycling and then we will begin to add fish. My fiance really wants to go with cichlids but Im not so sure thats what I want. I want to be able to have angels as I really like angels and my favorite of course is danios and I want them and cichlids would make that impossible so we are still discussing what type of fish to put in so it may be quite some time before we make any decisions and actually add fish. I also would like this to be a planted tank so I will probably start on that part right away after we get it all set up. I can go ahead and begin to put aquatic plants in right away after it is set up...right? I always added my plants quite a bit after my fish in the past and have never had a tank as planted as I would like this one to be so I would love some advice on the easiest aquatic plants to care for in a heavily planted tank and what else I would need to keep them healthy and well living...lol! I know I have rambled on and on but I am excited about the new tank and about getting plants into and eventually fish and would love any suggestions on the plant topic because I am still very new at the whole aquatic plant thing. My frog tank has a few plants but I havent had to do much for them and my tanks in the past had some that my pleco usually ended up shredding which wasnt so pretty....lol and Ihad some duckweed in one of my 55's which took over and I didnt like that much. Anyway thanks for listening to me ramble about my new tanks and again any advice, tips, suggestions are more than welcome. Heather [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] ------------------------------------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the home page. Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com to receive the digest, which includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com for the No E-Mail option where you will still be able to read messages on the group and post replies. Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com to receive individual e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 43392	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 9/12/2009
Subject: Re: Have a question about tank molding

"barely sit" is not acceptable so you will need to add a new "top" to the tank so that new top is fully supported by the existing wood/framing and then your tank would sit on that new top and be fully supported by it. You don't want the OSB top panel possibly bowing which would put a LOT of stress on the tank which could cause leaks or outright explosion. It's good that the middle upright cabinet enclosure panes are 48" apart to provide the direct support on the ends of the tank but you will still need the new top, IMO, to keep the long ends from being subjected to inadequate support. The new top would also cover up the exposed OSB that would show up on each end with your shorter tank. OSB is OK to use in hidden areas of carpentry but it's NOT PRETTY to look at in exposed areas. See my other reply about the top piece. OK. Since the tank has been used for fish for a while, if it ever was a reptile tank, any leaching of reptile urine would have already happened so you should be fine. Since you are looking at adding a canopy to the top of the tank, which will make the entire set-up look much better anyhow, you will not have to be as concerned about the middle brace and since it's a hard plastic repair, it's probably either epoxy or fiberglass so that is likely sufficient. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Heather Sent: Saturday, September 12, 2009 11:21 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Have a question about tank molding Ok first question. The front and back of the tank barely sit on the front and back of the stand but do sit on the upright front and back portions a tiny bit. The front and back of the tank are a little less than 1/2 inch from the very edge of the stand. The middle upright sections support the center of the tank perfectly even on each side. Second question yes I saw the tank full and had to wait for her to switch over to her new 90 gallon tank...waited 4 weeks. She assumes it was always used as a fish tank but does not know this for sure but she does know there were fish in it before she bought it from the owner before her. Also already did the fill up and check for no leaks outside just to be safe as thats a lot of water to go all over the living room and the ride back home was a little rough after picking up the tank...lol! The stuff that they used to fill in the middle brace is not soft and rubbery like silicone it is very hard like plastic. Ok I think that is all of your questions. --- On Sat, 9/12/09, Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@...> wrote: From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@...> Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Have a question about tank molding To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Date: Saturday, September 12, 2009, 10:19 AM   If the middle brace is not completely broken, then it is probably mechanically sound, just maybe not pretty. Using a 1/8" thick piece of plastic, cut to the same size as the brace and epoxied in place would at least cover up the "horrible" looking piece and give you piece of mind that the damaged section will never be a problem in the future. I'm looking at your pictures now, http://groups. yahoo.com/ group/AquaticLif e/photos/ album/1174204113 /pic/list? m ode=tn&order= ordinal&start= 1&dir=asc Your stand is definitely a DIY Tank Stand. While much of the stand appears to be framed in hardwood (looks like 1" x 4" sections, the top, rear and bottom panels are made with fiberboard (officially called OSB - Oriented Strand Board), not plywood. OSB is strong and many say as strong as plywood but due to it's make up, it can be compromised easier than plywood, in my opinion and experience, especially when constantly exposed to water, which is not a problem for you unless you had a constantly leaking tank. I've seen houses where either plywood or OSB was used and when both were exposed to flood waters (Katrina), the plywood remained structurally OK while the OSB was deteriorated severely, similar to what happens with particle board when exposed to water except particle board is 100 times worse than OSB. OSB is made by taking shredded wood (made from scraps of wood) and then mixing it in a resin and pressing it into sheets. Particle board is made from taking ground up wood, almost like sawdust, mixing it with resin and pouring it into sheets. OK... enough about wood manufacturing and back to your stand. As you can see, there are 1" x 4" sections outlining the top and these sections sit on top of other 1" x 4" sections and those upright 1" x 4" sections sit on top of the base which is also made up of 1" x 4" sections. For a stand made for such a large tank, I would probably have used 2" x 4"s (which is what I used on my DIY Tank Stand for my 65G - see my blog article) but they also incorporated the OSB to provide additional structural stability so I'm sure it's OK. The problem comes with your smaller tank sitting on it. The BIG questions... . Will your tank bottom-front & back frame sections sit on top of the front and back 1" x 4" sections of the top or just on the OSB panel in the middle? Will your tank's bottom-end frame sections sit on the OSB top where it is supported by the upright OSB panels that enclose the middle cabinet area or not? If you give me dimensions of the stand and tank, I could better assess these questions unless you understand the questions I am asking and can make your own assessment. Now, onto your tank. I misunderstood you when you were saying about the top frame. It's not just the middle brace, which runs across open space and just connects the front and back frame sections in the middle of the tank. It looks like the entire top frame has areas of melted damage. I would suspect this was previously a Saltwater Tank or possibly even a Reptile tank as both of these would use lighting that is usually much hotter than the relatively cool lighting that we usually use on our freshwater tanks. Did you see this tank in use as an aquarium, filled up with water or has it only been empty? Also, ask the previous owner for more info on the history of the tank. Also, if you did not see this tank in use as an aquarium, I would take it outside, on a flat and secure surface, and fill it up to test it out. While it may still be perfectly sound, it has definitely seen some abuse in it's lifetime. I would definitely reinforce that top middle brace just to provide more security that the front and back top frame sections will not bow out when the tank is filled up. Since those sections show some melting damage as well, I would worry that the bowing might cause cracking in the melted sections. The end top frame sections are not really an issue since the glass panes are not long like the front and back panes so the shorter panes are not as subject to bowing as the front and back sections. Believe me, I've seen tanks that either did not have a middle top brace or it was removed and when folks would fill up the tank, the front and back would bow out an inch or two.... very scary looking to me but the people would say, "It's been like that for years", so go figure. Thin glass is very flexible but at a certain point it will develop stress cracks and eventually shatter, which is why the top and bottom frames have those middle braces on larger tanks. If the tank is made with thicker glass, then the middle braces are not as much of an issue. On a side note, the middle top brace does not appear to be filled with silicone to me, but rather an epoxy or fiberglass filler, which would provide more structural stability than silicone. When you touch the whitish colored repaired section, is it soft like silicone (rubbery) or is it hard/rigid, like epoxy or fiberglass would be? Of course, OLD silicone also gets hard but usually starts visibly cracking when that happens. Try to read through this and answer every question I've asked. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com [mailto:AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com] On Behalf Of Heather Sent: Saturday, September 12, 2009 12:10 AM To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Have a question about tank molding  No they were basically just filling in the hole/huge space left over after it was melted and it looks horrible and I am sure would not give anything much support. I think your idea sounds great and yes like it would be much easier than replacing the moldings. I will take pictures of everything first thing in the morning and either post them on my photobucket account and send a link or upload them to the groups photos page. Heather   --- On Sat, 9/12/09, Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@gmail. com> wrote: From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@gmail. com> Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Have a question about tank molding To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com Date: Saturday, September 12, 2009, 12:00 AM   I don't think you would want to or need to replace the top framing. It's a lot of work for a minor repair. You can simply repair that center brace by scraping off the silicone and then getting a piece of plastic or maybe 1/8" plexiglass, long enough to cover the entire broken brace, then use a 2-part epoxy to glue the repair strip to the top of the current bracket. This bracket is not a major support bracket but it does provide support to keep the long sides of the tank from bowing outward when filled with water. I'm not sure I would rely on silicone to repair this, especially if the silicone is only "gluing" the broken parts together. Now, if they used a strip, like I just described and used silicone as the adhesive, that seems like it would be sufficient. Take some pics of this brace and the repair so I can give better info on this also. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com [mailto:AquaticLife @ yahoogroups. com] On Behalf Of Heather Sent: Friday, September 11, 2009 11:48 PM To: Aquatic Life Subject: [AquaticLife] Have a question about tank molding Where could I buy new moldings for tanks? The center bar on the 65 looks as if someone had a light of some sort laying right on it and it melted and then was fixed with silicone and we would like to replace the entire top molding and bottom if need be to make it match...lol! Any suggestions on where I can pick this up or order this? Huge Hugs~Heather http://www.youravon .com/hbroschayt [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] ------------ --------- --------- ------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the home page. Or e-mail aquaticlife- digest@yahoogrou ps.com to receive the digest, which includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email Or email aquaticlife- nomail@yahoogrou ps.com for the No E-Mail option where you will still be able to read messages on the group and post replies. Or email aquaticlife- normal@yahoogrou ps.com to receive individual e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] ------------------------------------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. 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Group: AquaticLife	Message: 43393	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 9/12/2009
Subject: Re: Pics of my tank and stand

OK. Just to be clear, I didn't say "DIY molding" but rather DIY Canopy which would cover up the molding, serve as a top for the tank, be a housing for your lighting, etc., and you could build it to match the stand so it will all look custom made. Since the canopy would fit over and around your current black plastic framing, it would provide the cosmetic cover up as well as providing much more support to keep the tank from bowing in the event the plastic frame should ever start to develop cracks where it has been melted/damaged. WOW... I figured you would go buy a couple of 8' long 12" Oak shelves or a piece of plywood. I didn't know you'd chop down a HUGE Oak tree. LOL I'm not sure that freshly cut wood would work for you anyhow. They normally cut it and cure it to let all the moisture evaporate out of the wood before they start cutting it into boards or the boards would be subject to warping. If they cut you a one piece section to fit perfectly on top of your current stand, a 1" thick section (or as you call it, slab) would be all that is needed. Anything more would be overkill especially since that section would be further supported/reinforced by the existing stand's wooden top and top outside framing. I'm really not sure that the people who would cut up that storm damaged oak tree would have the tools capable of cutting the piece of wood you need.. but maybe they do. They will probably just have chain saws and such, not the kind of table saws needed for more refined cutting like used for carpentry, shelving, etc. Here are a few DIY sites with good canopies and stands for hubby to get some ideas from. http://www.cichlid-forum.com/articles/diy_list.php http://www.monsterfishkeepers.com/forums/showthread.php?s=736f9a3bee2c08d586 b97f32f1553613&t=31612 BUT mainly just this link on that page, since that link will probably break... http://www.box.net/public/sxeo3y28fs http://www.aquariumlife.net/diy.asp http://www.aquariaforums.com/aquarium-diy-plans/?TYP=1 Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Heather Sent: Saturday, September 12, 2009 11:35 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Pics of my tank and stand  I would love the sites you have on the DIY molding because Tim is running ideas through his head already to cover the existing molding and make it look nicer. I also think your idea about putting a new top on so it will be supported is a great idea and it just so happens at my work (I am a cook at a country club) a HUGE oak tree was knocked down by a storm awhile back and they are getting ready to cut it up so I could have them cut me a slab to fit the top and it would look much better than what is on there now...that would work right? How thick should it be? Heather --- On Sat, 9/12/09, Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@...> wrote: From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@...> Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Pics of my tank and stand To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Date: Saturday, September 12, 2009, 11:06 AM   OK. As you can see, your 65G tank, with a 48" x 18" footprint will NOT be sitting directly on any of the primary structural tank stand framing sections. This is a concern to me. It may still work but I'd experiment with it OUTSIDE. Now possibly, there is a fix that would work, by putting a "new" top on the stand, right on top of the existing stand, but so the new top would sit on top of the outside framing sections of the stand so the new top is fully supported. That OSB top panel that is on the stand right now is NOT supported on top of the frame but rather inlaid into the top frame supports. It does probably benefit from support of the two inside cabinet upright OSB panels but that would not be enough for me to trust it. If you get either a custom cut piece of 3/4" plywood or hard-wood (like 8' long, 12" Oak Shelving where you would need two pieces and one would have to be cut length-wise to 7.5" wide and then both pieces cut to 75" long) and put this on top of the current stand, I would be more prone to trusting it. At least the new top would be fully supported by the outside framing of the tank stand and not just the OSB panels. As I said in my previous post, I think the top black frame of the tank was damaged by HOT lighting, either from a Saltwater lighting system that often uses Halogen lighting or other HOT lighting sources (normally these lighting systems are supported 8" to 12" above the tank so the heat doesn't affect the water temperature and/or tank frame but maybe they didn't read the instructions) . The other possibility is it was a Reptile tank where heat lamps are used for the Reptile to sun itself and keep warm. If it was a Reptile tank, other issues pop up that I'm not sure if I believe 100% but there are reports that reptile urine that might soak into the silicone of a tank will then leach out into an aquarium and cause health issues. I'm not sure I buy this theory 100% because I'm pretty sure that reptile urine must find it's way into our ponds, lakes, rivers, etc., and the fish seem to do OK with it there. I'm almost positive I saw the Geico Gecko peeing in one of my ponds one day... when I switched to Progressive. ;-) You could always make a DIY Canopy for the top to cover up the damaged looking black framing and also add decorative molding along the outside of the tank stand to cover the black framing on the bottom. If you want some sites with DIY plans for canopies and stands to see what I'm talking about, let me know. I have dozens. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com [mailto:AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com] On Behalf Of Heather Sent: Saturday, September 12, 2009 8:46 AM To: aquatic life Subject: [AquaticLife] Pics of my tank and stand  Pics are waiting approval on the group webpage under Heathers Photos. The stand is a tiny bit over 75 inches long by 19.5 inches wide all made with 3/4 inch plywood except the solid wood front and the two supports on either side of the middle cabinet are made with 1 inch thick plywood.  The tank is made with very thick tempered glass and all is in perfect shape except the top molding which has been torn up and melted and so on. Almost looks as if they were trying to trim it down to get a small filter to fit on. The molding is all intact and connected but looks horrible...lol! Heather

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 43394	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 9/12/2009
Subject: Re: Lenny--RE: [AquaticLife] Picked up my 65 gallon tonight

Well I hope you at least give hubby a concession prize. ;-) And no end-zone style dancing to rub your victory in his face either. LOL Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Heather Sent: Saturday, September 12, 2009 11:23 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: Lenny--RE: [AquaticLife] Picked up my 65 gallon tonight We agreed on a tank that angels could be in safely so african cichlids are a no go...I won...I won...lol! Heather --- On Sat, 9/12/09, Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@...> wrote: From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@...> Subject: RE: Lenny--RE: [AquaticLife] Picked up my 65 gallon tonight To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Date: Saturday, September 12, 2009, 10:45 AM   Oops.. you answered. I just hadn't gotten to it yet. There's still the issue of Heather wanting a planted tank and hubby wanting an African Cichlid tank. Might I suggest Rock, Paper, Scissors... or maybe thumb wrestling? LOL Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com [mailto:AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com] On Behalf Of Heather Sent: Saturday, September 12, 2009 8:49 AM To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com Subject: RE: Lenny--RE: [AquaticLife] Picked up my 65 gallon tonight Its 48 inches long 18 inches wide. Heather --- On Sat, 9/12/09, Donna Ransome <djransome@optonline .net> wrote: From: Donna Ransome <djransome@optonline .net> Subject: RE: Lenny--RE: [AquaticLife] Picked up my 65 gallon tonight To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com Date: Saturday, September 12, 2009, 8:06 AM   What are the dimensions of the 65G? If it is not 48” long then you may find it VERY limiting if you want African cichlids. _____ From: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com [mailto:AquaticLife @ yahoogroups. com] On Behalf Of Heather Sent: Saturday, September 12, 2009 12:14 AM To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com Subject: Lenny--RE: [AquaticLife] Picked up my 65 gallon tonight This stand is actually made out of 3/4 inch plywood which has a center cabinet with center supports on both sides of the cabinet door and then drawers on either side of the cabinet. Can I send pictures through the group...I will take some and send them through if I can. And yes Tim wants the african cichlids and he really likes convicts which I am also not so fond of...lol! Huge Hugs~Heather http://www.youravon <http://www.youravon .com/hbroschayt> .com/hbroschayt --- On Fri, 9/11/09, Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@gmail. <mailto:GoldLenny% 40gmail.com> com> wrote: From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@gmail. <mailto:GoldLenny% 40gmail.com> com> Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Picked up my 65 gallon tonight To: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife %40yahoogroups. com> yahoogroups. com Date: Friday, September 11, 2009, 11:00 PM Did you say your LFS sold you the stand and the tank? Do they have the same foot print? The reason I ask is that most aquarium stands are designed for the four sides to carry the weight of the aquarium since the aquariums stand displaces all of the weight on the four bottom-sides of the tank's frame. If your stand is 60" x 24" and your tank is 48" x 18", then the stand's top may not be designed to hold your tank. The top may just be more of a decorative piece of wood or particle board where the stand is designed for the tank's four bottom-side framing sections to sit directly above the upright supports of the stand. This is another one of them physics problems that I understand in my head but may not be able to explain to others properly. Hopefully your LFS guy knows about this design feature in aquarium stands. If you can give me dimensions (mainly the footprint - L x W dimensions) of the tank and stand and the manufacturer and/or model number of the stand, I would be able to check this out and advise better. I just don't want you to wake up to a disaster one day. BTW... Angelfish are cichlids so you could get them and he should be happy. Of course, he probably wants African Cichlids and Angelfish are S. American Cichlids. If that is the case, then they would not mix, although some species might work but it wouldn't be the best thing for the fish since their water parameter preferences are much different. As far as easy plants, see my blog article, "Planted Tank - So You Want A Planted Tank?" which has LOTS of info and links to other sites with LOTS more info for beginners who want a planted tank including lots of choices of good beginner plants that are easy to grow. If he also likes the idea of a planted tank, then your Angelfish Cichlids and maybe a S. American Biotope would be the way to go since African Cichlids like rocks and lots of rocks... not plants. I hope you get this reply. I know you recently said you were not getting email from the group properly... dang Yahoo! Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com [mailto:AquaticLife @ yahoogroups. com] On Behalf Of Heather Sent: Friday, September 11, 2009 10:22 PM To: aquatic life Subject: [AquaticLife] Picked up my 65 gallon tonight Well I went and picked up my 65 gallon tank tonight and a stand that is actually for a 125 gallon but it was free and has lower cabinets and drawers which is awesome. Our local fish guy is a great guy. I also bought a Marineland Pro Series Bio Wheel Power Filter 400 for a great price which he told me was a great filter but that I might eventually need a second one depending on what kind of fish we decide on but I want this to be a heavily planted tank so not sure I will need a second filter. Also picked up another 29 for very cheap which I will set up for my albino clawed frog. So all in all the guppies and platies with stay in their 29 and the frog will be switched over from a 10 to a 29 and in a few months we will start to add fish to the new tank. We will not be setting up the new tank until we clean, sand down and restain the stand and then will take it through the fishless cycling and then we will begin to add fish. My fiance really wants to go with cichlids but Im not so sure thats what I want. I want to be able to have angels as I really like angels and my favorite of course is danios and I want them and cichlids would make that impossible so we are still discussing what type of fish to put in so it may be quite some time before we make any decisions and actually add fish. I also would like this to be a planted tank so I will probably start on that part right away after we get it all set up. I can go ahead and begin to put aquatic plants in right away after it is set up...right? I always added my plants quite a bit after my fish in the past and have never had a tank as planted as I would like this one to be so I would love some advice on the easiest aquatic plants to care for in a heavily planted tank and what else I would need to keep them healthy and well living...lol! I know I have rambled on and on but I am excited about the new tank and about getting plants into and eventually fish and would love any suggestions on the plant topic because I am still very new at the whole aquatic plant thing. My frog tank has a few plants but I havent had to do much for them and my tanks in the past had some that my pleco usually ended up shredding which wasnt so pretty....lol and Ihad some duckweed in one of my 55's which took over and I didnt like that much. Anyway thanks for listening to me ramble about my new tanks and again any advice, tips, suggestions are more than welcome. Heather [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] ------------ --------- --------- ------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. `..><((((>.` ..`.><((( (> .`.. , .`..><((((> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <((((><.`..` .<((((><. `.. , .`..<((((><` .. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the home page. Or e-mail aquaticlife- digest@yahoogrou ps.com to receive the digest, which includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email Or email aquaticlife- nomail@yahoogrou ps.com for the No E-Mail option where you will still be able to read messages on the group and post replies. Or email aquaticlife- normal@yahoogrou ps.com to receive individual e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] ------------------------------------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. `..><((((>.`..`.><((((> .`.. , .`..><((((> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <((((><.`..`.<((((><.`.. , .`..<((((><`.. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the home page. Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com to receive the digest, which includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com for the No E-Mail option where you will still be able to read messages on the group and post replies. Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com to receive individual e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 43395	From: Donna Ransome	Date: 9/12/2009
Subject: Re: Lenny--RE: [AquaticLife] Picked up my 65 gallon tonight

I come out to more like 78 gallons. _____ From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Heather Sent: Saturday, September 12, 2009 10:59 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: Lenny--RE: [AquaticLife] Picked up my 65 gallon tonight it is 21 inches tall...I do not know if that is short but it looks the same size as a 55 just much wider --- On Sat, 9/12/09, Donna Ransome <djransome@optonline <mailto:djransome%40optonline.net> .net> wrote: From: Donna Ransome <djransome@optonline <mailto:djransome%40optonline.net> .net> Subject: RE: Lenny--RE: [AquaticLife] Picked up my 65 gallon tonight To: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com Date: Saturday, September 12, 2009, 9:41 AM Sounds like a 75G footprint.must be shorter than usual if it's 65G. But that footprint is good for Africans.you just would not want to mix them with angelfish. _____ From: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com [mailto:AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com] On Behalf Of Heather Sent: Saturday, September 12, 2009 9:49 AM To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com Subject: RE: Lenny--RE: [AquaticLife] Picked up my 65 gallon tonight Its 48 inches long 18 inches wide. Heather --- On Sat, 9/12/09, Donna Ransome <djransome@optonlin e <mailto:djransome% 40optonline. net> .net> wrote: From: Donna Ransome <djransome@optonlin e <mailto:djransome% 40optonline. net> .net> Subject: RE: Lenny--RE: [AquaticLife] Picked up my 65 gallon tonight To: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife %40yahoogroups. com> yahoogroups. com Date: Saturday, September 12, 2009, 8:06 AM What are the dimensions of the 65G? If it is not 48" long then you may find it VERY limiting if you want African cichlids. _____ From: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com [mailto:AquaticLife @ yahoogroups. com] On Behalf Of Heather Sent: Saturday, September 12, 2009 12:14 AM To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com Subject: Lenny--RE: [AquaticLife] Picked up my 65 gallon tonight This stand is actually made out of 3/4 inch plywood which has a center cabinet with center supports on both sides of the cabinet door and then drawers on either side of the cabinet. Can I send pictures through the group...I will take some and send them through if I can. And yes Tim wants the african cichlids and he really likes convicts which I am also not so fond of...lol! Huge Hugs~Heather http://www.youravon <http://www.youravon .com/hbroschayt> .com/hbroschayt --- On Fri, 9/11/09, Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@gmail. <mailto:GoldLenny% 40gmail.com> com> wrote: From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@gmail. <mailto:GoldLenny% 40gmail.com> com> Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Picked up my 65 gallon tonight To: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife %40yahoogroups. com> yahoogroups. com Date: Friday, September 11, 2009, 11:00 PM Did you say your LFS sold you the stand and the tank? Do they have the same foot print? The reason I ask is that most aquarium stands are designed for the four sides to carry the weight of the aquarium since the aquariums stand displaces all of the weight on the four bottom-sides of the tank's frame. If your stand is 60" x 24" and your tank is 48" x 18", then the stand's top may not be designed to hold your tank. The top may just be more of a decorative piece of wood or particle board where the stand is designed for the tank's four bottom-side framing sections to sit directly above the upright supports of the stand. This is another one of them physics problems that I understand in my head but may not be able to explain to others properly. Hopefully your LFS guy knows about this design feature in aquarium stands. If you can give me dimensions (mainly the footprint - L x W dimensions) of the tank and stand and the manufacturer and/or model number of the stand, I would be able to check this out and advise better. I just don't want you to wake up to a disaster one day. BTW... Angelfish are cichlids so you could get them and he should be happy. Of course, he probably wants African Cichlids and Angelfish are S. American Cichlids. If that is the case, then they would not mix, although some species might work but it wouldn't be the best thing for the fish since their water parameter preferences are much different. As far as easy plants, see my blog article, "Planted Tank - So You Want A Planted Tank?" which has LOTS of info and links to other sites with LOTS more info for beginners who want a planted tank including lots of choices of good beginner plants that are easy to grow. If he also likes the idea of a planted tank, then your Angelfish Cichlids and maybe a S. American Biotope would be the way to go since African Cichlids like rocks and lots of rocks... not plants. I hope you get this reply. I know you recently said you were not getting email from the group properly... dang Yahoo! Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com [mailto:AquaticLife @ yahoogroups. com] On Behalf Of Heather Sent: Friday, September 11, 2009 10:22 PM To: aquatic life Subject: [AquaticLife] Picked up my 65 gallon tonight Well I went and picked up my 65 gallon tank tonight and a stand that is actually for a 125 gallon but it was free and has lower cabinets and drawers which is awesome. Our local fish guy is a great guy. I also bought a Marineland Pro Series Bio Wheel Power Filter 400 for a great price which he told me was a great filter but that I might eventually need a second one depending on what kind of fish we decide on but I want this to be a heavily planted tank so not sure I will need a second filter. Also picked up another 29 for very cheap which I will set up for my albino clawed frog. So all in all the guppies and platies with stay in their 29 and the frog will be switched over from a 10 to a 29 and in a few months we will start to add fish to the new tank. We will not be setting up the new tank until we clean, sand down and restain the stand and then will take it through the fishless cycling and then we will begin to add fish. My fiance really wants to go with cichlids but Im not so sure thats what I want. I want to be able to have angels as I really like angels and my favorite of course is danios and I want them and cichlids would make that impossible so we are still discussing what type of fish to put in so it may be quite some time before we make any decisions and actually add fish. I also would like this to be a planted tank so I will probably start on that part right away after we get it all set up. I can go ahead and begin to put aquatic plants in right away after it is set up...right? I always added my plants quite a bit after my fish in the past and have never had a tank as planted as I would like this one to be so I would love some advice on the easiest aquatic plants to care for in a heavily planted tank and what else I would need to keep them healthy and well living...lol! I know I have rambled on and on but I am excited about the new tank and about getting plants into and eventually fish and would love any suggestions on the plant topic because I am still very new at the whole aquatic plant thing. My frog tank has a few plants but I havent had to do much for them and my tanks in the past had some that my pleco usually ended up shredding which wasnt so pretty....lol and Ihad some duckweed in one of my 55's which took over and I didnt like that much. Anyway thanks for listening to me ramble about my new tanks and again any advice, tips, suggestions are more than welcome. Heather [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 43396	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 9/12/2009
Subject: Re: Pics of my tank and stand

Are you or hubby a good handymam or handyman or good with carpentry or do you have a friend or family member who is? Here's a simple DIY Canopy. http://www.cichlid-forum.com/articles/diy_canopy2.php Here's another, looks very similar but possibly a little more complicated. http://www.cichlid-forum.com/articles/diy_canopy.php Here's a lot more canopies (or hoods as some call them). This page includes links to many other website's DIY articles. http://www.aquariaforums.com/aquarium-diy-plans/Hoods/ The top picture on this page shows the cosmetic trim added around the outside of the top of the stand to cover up the black bottom tank frame. This trim could be made out of the same material as the canopy so it matches and if the materials match the rest of the stand, it will all blend in and look very nice. Since you will have space on the top on each end, you could also use the same trim that is used on the four sides of the top and glue or screw pieces into the top on each end of your tank to cover the black frame. The 4th photo down on this page http://www.cichlid-forum.com/articles/55_diy_pt4.php shows these outside trim pieces applied to this DIY stand. These pieces are solely cosmetic, to cover up the usually black plastic frames on tanks. As you will see in that picture, they only have the pieces on the front and two ends but you would need all four sides or the back of your top would look funny on each end where the tank is not filling in the entire top of your stand. You could position your tank so it's all the way in the front of the stand or push it all the way to the back and in that case, you might want to use another piece of cosmetic trim to cover the front black plastic like you did on each side. I would lean towards moving the tank to the front of the stand. You'll have a little more space in the back but this would also allow you to put the stand all the way against the wall and still have room for HOB filters on the back of the tank. If you go with the DIY canopy. I did not see where they mentioned but you should probably use plexiglass to cover the top of the tank to keep evaporation to a minimum which would also keep the humidity from causing long-term damage to the canopy. I've always talked about using plexiglass as DIY covers for tanks but I like the idea of just using prismatic lighting diffuser plastic panels like this guy did in this article as well. I wonder if this thinner plastic would bow down to much though? It's certainly cheaper than plexiglass and worth a shot. Maybe two sheets thick with some epoxy or silicone between the two sheets would make it much stiffer and it would still be much cheaper than plexiglass. http://www.cichlid-forum.com/articles/diy_tank_covers.php Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Heather Sent: Saturday, September 12, 2009 11:35 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Pics of my tank and stand  I would love the sites you have on the DIY molding because Tim is running ideas through his head already to cover the existing molding and make it look nicer. I also think your idea about putting a new top on so it will be supported is a great idea and it just so happens at my work (I am a cook at a country club) a HUGE oak tree was knocked down by a storm awhile back and they are getting ready to cut it up so I could have them cut me a slab to fit the top and it would look much better than what is on there now...that would work right? How thick should it be? Heather --- On Sat, 9/12/09, Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@...> wrote: From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@...> Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Pics of my tank and stand To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Date: Saturday, September 12, 2009, 11:06 AM   OK. As you can see, your 65G tank, with a 48" x 18" footprint will NOT be sitting directly on any of the primary structural tank stand framing sections. This is a concern to me. It may still work but I'd experiment with it OUTSIDE. Now possibly, there is a fix that would work, by putting a "new" top on the stand, right on top of the existing stand, but so the new top would sit on top of the outside framing sections of the stand so the new top is fully supported. That OSB top panel that is on the stand right now is NOT supported on top of the frame but rather inlaid into the top frame supports. It does probably benefit from support of the two inside cabinet upright OSB panels but that would not be enough for me to trust it. If you get either a custom cut piece of 3/4" plywood or hard-wood (like 8' long, 12" Oak Shelving where you would need two pieces and one would have to be cut length-wise to 7.5" wide and then both pieces cut to 75" long) and put this on top of the current stand, I would be more prone to trusting it. At least the new top would be fully supported by the outside framing of the tank stand and not just the OSB panels. As I said in my previous post, I think the top black frame of the tank was damaged by HOT lighting, either from a Saltwater lighting system that often uses Halogen lighting or other HOT lighting sources (normally these lighting systems are supported 8" to 12" above the tank so the heat doesn't affect the water temperature and/or tank frame but maybe they didn't read the instructions) . The other possibility is it was a Reptile tank where heat lamps are used for the Reptile to sun itself and keep warm. If it was a Reptile tank, other issues pop up that I'm not sure if I believe 100% but there are reports that reptile urine that might soak into the silicone of a tank will then leach out into an aquarium and cause health issues. I'm not sure I buy this theory 100% because I'm pretty sure that reptile urine must find it's way into our ponds, lakes, rivers, etc., and the fish seem to do OK with it there. I'm almost positive I saw the Geico Gecko peeing in one of my ponds one day... when I switched to Progressive. ;-) You could always make a DIY Canopy for the top to cover up the damaged looking black framing and also add decorative molding along the outside of the tank stand to cover the black framing on the bottom. If you want some sites with DIY plans for canopies and stands to see what I'm talking about, let me know. I have dozens. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com [mailto:AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com] On Behalf Of Heather Sent: Saturday, September 12, 2009 8:46 AM To: aquatic life Subject: [AquaticLife] Pics of my tank and stand  Pics are waiting approval on the group webpage under Heathers Photos. The stand is a tiny bit over 75 inches long by 19.5 inches wide all made with 3/4 inch plywood except the solid wood front and the two supports on either side of the middle cabinet are made with 1 inch thick plywood.  The tank is made with very thick tempered glass and all is in perfect shape except the top molding which has been torn up and melted and so on. Almost looks as if they were trying to trim it down to get a small filter to fit on. The molding is all intact and connected but looks horrible...lol! Heather

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 43397	From: Heather	Date: 9/12/2009
Subject: Re: Lenny--RE: [AquaticLife] Picked up my 65 gallon tonight

Thats great to hear...we ened up getting a better deal than thought...lol! Huge Hugs~Heather http://www.youravon.com/hbroschayt --- On Sat, 9/12/09, Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@...> wrote: From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@...> Subject: RE: Lenny--RE: [AquaticLife] Picked up my 65 gallon tonight To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Date: Saturday, September 12, 2009, 11:58 AM   Well, I'm SORRY to say that your tank is not a 65G tank. It's BIGGER!!!! Yippeee!!!! 48 x 18 x 21 = 18,144 / 231 = 78.5 Gallons. Probably sold as a 75G, some might call it an 80G. A 65G is only 17" high/tall (48 x 18 x 17 / 231 = 63.6G and sold as a 65G). Most tanks are rounded up to the next 5G mark, which is why many might sell your tank as an 80G. But this also means about another 100 pounds of weight on the stand (water weighs around 8 pound per gallon plus the weight of the tank, gravel, etc., so I always round up to 10 pounds per gallon when considering weight). Since your stand was not designed for that tank, that raises more concerns about making sure to do some minor reinforcing of the top of the stand as I described in an earlier post in that thread. I'll answer your stand questions in that thread. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com [mailto:AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com] On Behalf Of Heather Sent: Saturday, September 12, 2009 9:59 AM To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com Subject: RE: Lenny--RE: [AquaticLife] Picked up my 65 gallon tonight it is 21 inches tall...I do not know if that is short but it looks the same size as a 55 just much wider --- On Sat, 9/12/09, Donna Ransome <djransome@optonline .net> wrote: From: Donna Ransome <djransome@optonline .net> Subject: RE: Lenny--RE: [AquaticLife] Picked up my 65 gallon tonight To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com Date: Saturday, September 12, 2009, 9:41 AM   Sounds like a 75G footprint.must be shorter than usual if it's 65G. But that footprint is good for Africans.you just would not want to mix them with angelfish. _____ From: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com [mailto:AquaticLife @ yahoogroups. com] On Behalf Of Heather Sent: Saturday, September 12, 2009 9:49 AM To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com Subject: RE: Lenny--RE: [AquaticLife] Picked up my 65 gallon tonight Its 48 inches long 18 inches wide. Heather --- On Sat, 9/12/09, Donna Ransome <djransome@optonlin e <mailto:djransome% 40optonline. net> .net> wrote: From: Donna Ransome <djransome@optonlin e <mailto:djransome% 40optonline. net> .net> Subject: RE: Lenny--RE: [AquaticLife] Picked up my 65 gallon tonight To: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife %40yahoogroups. com> yahoogroups. com Date: Saturday, September 12, 2009, 8:06 AM What are the dimensions of the 65G? If it is not 48" long then you may find it VERY limiting if you want African cichlids. _____ From: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com [mailto:AquaticLife @ yahoogroups. com] On Behalf Of Heather Sent: Saturday, September 12, 2009 12:14 AM To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com Subject: Lenny--RE: [AquaticLife] Picked up my 65 gallon tonight This stand is actually made out of 3/4 inch plywood which has a center cabinet with center supports on both sides of the cabinet door and then drawers on either side of the cabinet. Can I send pictures through the group...I will take some and send them through if I can. And yes Tim wants the african cichlids and he really likes convicts which I am also not so fond of...lol! Huge Hugs~Heather http://www.youravon <http://www.youravon .com/hbroschayt> .com/hbroschayt --- On Fri, 9/11/09, Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@gmail. <mailto:GoldLenny% 40gmail.com> com> wrote: From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@gmail. <mailto:GoldLenny% 40gmail.com> com> Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Picked up my 65 gallon tonight To: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife %40yahoogroups. com> yahoogroups. com Date: Friday, September 11, 2009, 11:00 PM Did you say your LFS sold you the stand and the tank? Do they have the same foot print? The reason I ask is that most aquarium stands are designed for the four sides to carry the weight of the aquarium since the aquariums stand displaces all of the weight on the four bottom-sides of the tank's frame. If your stand is 60" x 24" and your tank is 48" x 18", then the stand's top may not be designed to hold your tank. The top may just be more of a decorative piece of wood or particle board where the stand is designed for the tank's four bottom-side framing sections to sit directly above the upright supports of the stand. This is another one of them physics problems that I understand in my head but may not be able to explain to others properly. Hopefully your LFS guy knows about this design feature in aquarium stands. If you can give me dimensions (mainly the footprint - L x W dimensions) of the tank and stand and the manufacturer and/or model number of the stand, I would be able to check this out and advise better. I just don't want you to wake up to a disaster one day. BTW... Angelfish are cichlids so you could get them and he should be happy. Of course, he probably wants African Cichlids and Angelfish are S. American Cichlids. If that is the case, then they would not mix, although some species might work but it wouldn't be the best thing for the fish since their water parameter preferences are much different. As far as easy plants, see my blog article, "Planted Tank - So You Want A Planted Tank?" which has LOTS of info and links to other sites with LOTS more info for beginners who want a planted tank including lots of choices of good beginner plants that are easy to grow. If he also likes the idea of a planted tank, then your Angelfish Cichlids and maybe a S. American Biotope would be the way to go since African Cichlids like rocks and lots of rocks... not plants. I hope you get this reply. I know you recently said you were not getting email from the group properly... dang Yahoo! Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com [mailto:AquaticLife @ yahoogroups. com] On Behalf Of Heather Sent: Friday, September 11, 2009 10:22 PM To: aquatic life Subject: [AquaticLife] Picked up my 65 gallon tonight Well I went and picked up my 65 gallon tank tonight and a stand that is actually for a 125 gallon but it was free and has lower cabinets and drawers which is awesome. Our local fish guy is a great guy. I also bought a Marineland Pro Series Bio Wheel Power Filter 400 for a great price which he told me was a great filter but that I might eventually need a second one depending on what kind of fish we decide on but I want this to be a heavily planted tank so not sure I will need a second filter. Also picked up another 29 for very cheap which I will set up for my albino clawed frog. So all in all the guppies and platies with stay in their 29 and the frog will be switched over from a 10 to a 29 and in a few months we will start to add fish to the new tank. We will not be setting up the new tank until we clean, sand down and restain the stand and then will take it through the fishless cycling and then we will begin to add fish. My fiance really wants to go with cichlids but Im not so sure thats what I want. I want to be able to have angels as I really like angels and my favorite of course is danios and I want them and cichlids would make that impossible so we are still discussing what type of fish to put in so it may be quite some time before we make any decisions and actually add fish. I also would like this to be a planted tank so I will probably start on that part right away after we get it all set up. I can go ahead and begin to put aquatic plants in right away after it is set up...right? I always added my plants quite a bit after my fish in the past and have never had a tank as planted as I would like this one to be so I would love some advice on the easiest aquatic plants to care for in a heavily planted tank and what else I would need to keep them healthy and well living...lol! I know I have rambled on and on but I am excited about the new tank and about getting plants into and eventually fish and would love any suggestions on the plant topic because I am still very new at the whole aquatic plant thing. My frog tank has a few plants but I havent had to do much for them and my tanks in the past had some that my pleco usually ended up shredding which wasnt so pretty....lol and Ihad some duckweed in one of my 55's which took over and I didnt like that much. Anyway thanks for listening to me ramble about my new tanks and again any advice, tips, suggestions are more than welcome. Heather [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] ------------ --------- --------- ------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the home page. Or e-mail aquaticlife- digest@yahoogrou ps.com to receive the digest, which includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email Or email aquaticlife- nomail@yahoogrou ps.com for the No E-Mail option where you will still be able to read messages on the group and post replies. Or email aquaticlife- normal@yahoogrou ps.com to receive individual e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 43398	From: Heather	Date: 9/12/2009
Subject: Re: Pics of my tank and stand

Great thanks for the links. Heather --- On Sat, 9/12/09, Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@...> wrote: From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@...> Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Pics of my tank and stand To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Date: Saturday, September 12, 2009, 12:13 PM   OK. Just to be clear, I didn't say "DIY molding" but rather DIY Canopy which would cover up the molding, serve as a top for the tank, be a housing for your lighting, etc., and you could build it to match the stand so it will all look custom made. Since the canopy would fit over and around your current black plastic framing, it would provide the cosmetic cover up as well as providing much more support to keep the tank from bowing in the event the plastic frame should ever start to develop cracks where it has been melted/damaged. WOW... I figured you would go buy a couple of 8' long 12" Oak shelves or a piece of plywood. I didn't know you'd chop down a HUGE Oak tree. LOL I'm not sure that freshly cut wood would work for you anyhow. They normally cut it and cure it to let all the moisture evaporate out of the wood before they start cutting it into boards or the boards would be subject to warping. If they cut you a one piece section to fit perfectly on top of your current stand, a 1" thick section (or as you call it, slab) would be all that is needed. Anything more would be overkill especially since that section would be further supported/reinforce d by the existing stand's wooden top and top outside framing. I'm really not sure that the people who would cut up that storm damaged oak tree would have the tools capable of cutting the piece of wood you need.. but maybe they do. They will probably just have chain saws and such, not the kind of table saws needed for more refined cutting like used for carpentry, shelving, etc. Here are a few DIY sites with good canopies and stands for hubby to get some ideas from. http://www.cichlid- forum.com/ articles/ diy_list. php http://www.monsterf ishkeepers. com/forums/ showthread. php?s=736f9a3bee 2c08d586 b97f32f1553613& t=31612 BUT mainly just this link on that page, since that link will probably break... http://www.box. net/public/ sxeo3y28fs http://www.aquarium life.net/ diy.asp http://www.aquariaf orums.com/ aquarium- diy-plans/ ?TYP=1 Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com [mailto:AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com] On Behalf Of Heather Sent: Saturday, September 12, 2009 11:35 AM To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Pics of my tank and stand  I would love the sites you have on the DIY molding because Tim is running ideas through his head already to cover the existing molding and make it look nicer. I also think your idea about putting a new top on so it will be supported is a great idea and it just so happens at my work (I am a cook at a country club) a HUGE oak tree was knocked down by a storm awhile back and they are getting ready to cut it up so I could have them cut me a slab to fit the top and it would look much better than what is on there now...that would work right? How thick should it be? Heather --- On Sat, 9/12/09, Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@gmail. com> wrote: From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@gmail. com> Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Pics of my tank and stand To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com Date: Saturday, September 12, 2009, 11:06 AM   OK. As you can see, your 65G tank, with a 48" x 18" footprint will NOT be sitting directly on any of the primary structural tank stand framing sections. This is a concern to me. It may still work but I'd experiment with it OUTSIDE. Now possibly, there is a fix that would work, by putting a "new" top on the stand, right on top of the existing stand, but so the new top would sit on top of the outside framing sections of the stand so the new top is fully supported. That OSB top panel that is on the stand right now is NOT supported on top of the frame but rather inlaid into the top frame supports. It does probably benefit from support of the two inside cabinet upright OSB panels but that would not be enough for me to trust it. If you get either a custom cut piece of 3/4" plywood or hard-wood (like 8' long, 12" Oak Shelving where you would need two pieces and one would have to be cut length-wise to 7.5" wide and then both pieces cut to 75" long) and put this on top of the current stand, I would be more prone to trusting it. At least the new top would be fully supported by the outside framing of the tank stand and not just the OSB panels. As I said in my previous post, I think the top black frame of the tank was damaged by HOT lighting, either from a Saltwater lighting system that often uses Halogen lighting or other HOT lighting sources (normally these lighting systems are supported 8" to 12" above the tank so the heat doesn't affect the water temperature and/or tank frame but maybe they didn't read the instructions) . The other possibility is it was a Reptile tank where heat lamps are used for the Reptile to sun itself and keep warm. If it was a Reptile tank, other issues pop up that I'm not sure if I believe 100% but there are reports that reptile urine that might soak into the silicone of a tank will then leach out into an aquarium and cause health issues. I'm not sure I buy this theory 100% because I'm pretty sure that reptile urine must find it's way into our ponds, lakes, rivers, etc., and the fish seem to do OK with it there. I'm almost positive I saw the Geico Gecko peeing in one of my ponds one day... when I switched to Progressive. ;-) You could always make a DIY Canopy for the top to cover up the damaged looking black framing and also add decorative molding along the outside of the tank stand to cover the black framing on the bottom. If you want some sites with DIY plans for canopies and stands to see what I'm talking about, let me know. I have dozens. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com [mailto:AquaticLife @ yahoogroups. com] On Behalf Of Heather Sent: Saturday, September 12, 2009 8:46 AM To: aquatic life Subject: [AquaticLife] Pics of my tank and stand  Pics are waiting approval on the group webpage under Heathers Photos. The stand is a tiny bit over 75 inches long by 19.5 inches wide all made with 3/4 inch plywood except the solid wood front and the two supports on either side of the middle cabinet are made with 1 inch thick plywood.  The tank is made with very thick tempered glass and all is in perfect shape except the top molding which has been torn up and melted and so on. Almost looks as if they were trying to trim it down to get a small filter to fit on. The molding is all intact and connected but looks horrible...lol! Heather [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 43399	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 9/12/2009
Subject: Re: Air Pumps

I have a splitter valve on the side of the tank in case I want/need more decorations with air ;) I have the rena 400 because it has the knob on top to up the output or lower it if needed, all the models under the 400 do not have this knob. It has only one output as you said. Amber Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > > > Well, a 48" bubble wand does not have as much surface area as 16 1" > diameter > air stones. The bubble wand probably has a couple of holes wide, running > the entire length of the wand where the 1" diameter stones might have the > same number of holes, but all bunched up together. I would venture to say > that the 16 1" air stones have a LOT more surface area, capable of > producing > bubbles, than the 48" bubble wand. I thought you decided you have the Rena > Air 300 since you only have one output.. right???... or do you have two > outlets built into the pump or do you have a splitter valve that was going > to both of your bubble decorations. > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right > side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On > Behalf Of Amber Berglund > Sent: Friday, September 11, 2009 10:51 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: Air Pumps > > How about with a 4 foot air stone? ;) LOL. > I have my rena air 400 running only one airstone, but it's 4 feet > long, not > 16 inches;) I also have it throttled back a little as well, it can put out > bigger bubbles but I prefer smaller bubbles, and so do the fish. > Can you say "Eek the bubble is coming for me?" LOL. Not all fish enjoy > bubbles, my rams seem to enjoy playing in the bubbles though, and the > Severum seems to ignore them mostly. > > Amber > > Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > > > > > > It depends on how many things you are operating. Back in the "old > days"... > > man that has been coming up a lot lately... folks had air powered UGF > > filters, sponge filters, air stones, bubble wands and decorations so > > that some of their tanks looked more like a hot tub than a natural water > body. > > > > The Rena Air 400 is rated for more than just a 40G. It has a range. > > This website http://www.aquariumguys.com/renaairpump4.html > <http://www.aquariumguys.com/renaairpump4.html> > > <http://www.aquariumguys.com/renaairpump4.html > <http://www.aquariumguys.com/renaairpump4.html>> says "The Rena Air > > Pump 400 is for aquariums up to 150 gallons that are 36" deep with up > > to 16-1" airstones." I stated earlier in the thread that I have a Rena > > Air 300 (with only one air output) and it powered a 2' bubble wand on > > my 65G tank and I'm pretty sure I had to throttle back the air volume > > to keep the weighted bubble wand from wanting to float away. "The Rena > > Air 300 is for aquariums up to 75 gallons that are 24" deep with up to > > 8-1" airstones.", according to > > http://www.aquariumguys.com/renaairpump3.html > <http://www.aquariumguys.com/renaairpump3.html> > > <http://www.aquariumguys.com/renaairpump3.html > <http://www.aquariumguys.com/renaairpump3.html>> > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>> > (Links to any articles referenced in > > above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels > > and also under Archives by Year, Month) > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On Behalf Of Amber Berglund > > Sent: Friday, September 11, 2009 10:02 PM > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: Air Pumps > > > > LOL, guess I should learn to read descriptions, I noticed on the site > > it says that the 400 model's and higher have the knobs, so I > > definitely have a 400 model, and it puts out plenty of bubbles for my > > 125 gallon tank, and it's only recommended for 40 gallons (hmm, wonder > > why?), anyone have any idea why they recommend such low tank volumes? > > Mine works just fine. > > > > Amber > > > > Amber Berglund wrote: > > > I use one of these Air pumps in my 125 gallon tank and it seems to > > > do the trick to put out enough bubbles in my 4 foot bubble "stick" > > > (one of those bendable bubble wands). I have another ornament hooked > > > up to it but it stopped putting out bubbles, I think it's clogged, > > > so I just turned off the valve and only have the bubble wand bubbling > instead. > > > > > > http://www.drsfostersmith.com/product/prod_display.cfm?c=3578+3669+197 > <http://www.drsfostersmith.com/product/prod_display.cfm?c=3578+3669+197> > > > <http://www.drsfostersmith.com/product/prod_display.cfm?c=3578+3669+19 > <http://www.drsfostersmith.com/product/prod_display.cfm?c=3578+3669+19> > > 7> > > > 79&pcatid=19779 > > > > > > It has a handy knob on the top to either turn the pressure up or > > > down, if you don't need as much pressure for your bubbles. > > > I'm not exactly sure which model I have, but it only has one outlet > > > on it, so it's one of the 3 "lesser" models listed, but I know it's > > > not the cheapest one, I got either a 300 or a 400, can't remember > > > now, since I bought it a year ago ;) LOL. > > > It's a good sale going on though. > > > > > > Amber > > > > > > Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > > >> > > >> > > >> I hope this one has enough Ummmph to push air to the bottom of your > > >> tank. > > >> That's where the PSI comes in handy. How much higher PSI rating did > > >> the Rena have? Since it was designed for hydroponics, I'm not sure > > >> their water systems are very deep... in fact, I think they are > > >> rather shallow trays, but I could be wrong. This page shows the > > >> deepest of three plant containers at less than 6" deep. > > >> http://homeharvest.com/hydroponicgrowingcontainers.htm > <http://homeharvest.com/hydroponicgrowingcontainers.htm> > > <http://homeharvest.com/hydroponicgrowingcontainers.htm > <http://homeharvest.com/hydroponicgrowingcontainers.htm>> > > >> <http://homeharvest.com/hydroponicgrowingcontainers.htm > <http://homeharvest.com/hydroponicgrowingcontainers.htm> > > <http://homeharvest.com/hydroponicgrowingcontainers.htm > <http://homeharvest.com/hydroponicgrowingcontainers.htm>>> > > >> > > >> This site even has a page about your new pump... > > >> http://www.4hydroponics.com/grow_room/dualDiaphragmPump.asp > <http://www.4hydroponics.com/grow_room/dualDiaphragmPump.asp> > > <http://www.4hydroponics.com/grow_room/dualDiaphragmPump.asp > <http://www.4hydroponics.com/grow_room/dualDiaphragmPump.asp>> > > >> <http://www.4hydroponics.com/grow_room/dualDiaphragmPump.asp > <http://www.4hydroponics.com/grow_room/dualDiaphragmPump.asp> > > <http://www.4hydroponics.com/grow_room/dualDiaphragmPump.asp > <http://www.4hydroponics.com/grow_room/dualDiaphragmPump.asp>>> with a > > >> lower price than what you paid also. Sorry to be the bearer of bad > > >> news. I see yours does include free shipping so maybe that will > > >> make the $54.95 price on this page more palatable compared to the > > >> $71.88 price on eBay. > > >> > > >> Worse case scenario, you could probably sell it on Craigslist in > > >> the "Grow Your Own" section. LOL I'm sure there are more of "those > kinds" > > >> of hydroponics users than folks that grow fruits and veggies. > > >> > > >> Lenny Vasbinder > > >> Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>> > > >> <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>>> > > (Links to any articles referenced in > > >> above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under > > >> Labels and also under Archives by Year, > > >> Month) > > >> > > >> -----Original Message----- > > >> From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > >> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > >> [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > >> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On Behalf Of kuradi8 > > >> Sent: Friday, September 11, 2009 6:41 PM > > >> To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > >> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > >> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > >> Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Air Pumps > > >> > > >> After having gotten burned by the wimpy pump, overkill seemed like > > >> a better option than another disappointment. And the 4 outlets give > > >> me the option of adding more (sing this) tiiiiny buuuubbles if the > > >> pump truly is up to the task. > > >> > > >> Both this one and the Rena are 8w. The Rena's PSI is higher. But > > >> this one's L/min is higher. So equal, worse, better... I figured > > >> they're pretty close. > > >> > > >> And believe it or not, I stayed in my meager price range. ;o) ~Kai > > >> > > >> --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > >> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>, "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" > > >> <GoldLenny@...> > > >> wrote: > > >> > > > >> > That one seems like overkill for a single tank... or were you > > >> > planning on adding a few more now? I thought you were looking at > > >> > the low-$40's or lower price range. ;-) > > >> > > > >> > Lenny Vasbinder > > >> > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>> > > >> <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>>> > > (Links to any articles > > >> > referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, > > >> > alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, > > >> > Month) > > >> > > > >> > > > >> > -----Original Message----- > > >> > Kai wrote: > > >> > > > >> > For those of you who might remember my air pump dilemma, > > >> > > > >> > Well, I took the plunge. I'd had my eye on a Rena 400 but got a > > >> > good deal on one of these instead. This is not where I got the > > >> > pump from but this ebay listing describes it best: > > >> > http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=300343244939 > <http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=300343244939> > > <http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=300343244939 > <http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=300343244939>> > > >> <http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=300343244939 > <http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=300343244939> > > <http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=300343244939 > <http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=300343244939>>> > > >> > > > >> > It's for my 55g and will replace a very disappointingly wimpy > > >> > Whisper-60. I hope I chose well. Did I? > > >> > ~Kai > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 43400	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 9/12/2009
Subject: Re: Lenny--RE: [AquaticLife] Picked up my 65 gallon tonight

Convicts are nasty little fish if they want to be. I had one that beat up my oscar so bad that I had to remove the little thing and take it back to the fish store. This was years ago though, I haven't had oscars since then. I do enjoy my Severum though, "he" has lots of personality just like Oscars do, but like Oscars they get very big. Amber Heather wrote: > > > This stand is actually made out of 3/4 inch plywood which has a > center cabinet with center supports on both sides of the cabinet door > and then drawers on either side of the cabinet. Can I send pictures > through the group...I will take some and send them through if I can. > And yes Tim wants the african cichlids and he really likes convicts > which I am also not so fond of...lol! > > Huge Hugs~Heather > > http://www.youravon.com/hbroschayt <http://www.youravon.com/hbroschayt> > > --- On Fri, 9/11/09, Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@... > <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com>> wrote: > > From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@... > <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com>> > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Picked up my 65 gallon tonight > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Date: Friday, September 11, 2009, 11:00 PM > > > > Did you say your LFS sold you the stand and the tank? Do they have the > same > > foot print? The reason I ask is that most aquarium stands are designed for > > the four sides to carry the weight of the aquarium since the aquariums > stand > > displaces all of the weight on the four bottom-sides of the tank's frame. > > If your stand is 60" x 24" and your tank is 48" x 18", then the > stand's top > > may not be designed to hold your tank. The top may just be more of a > > decorative piece of wood or particle board where the stand is designed for > > the tank's four bottom-side framing sections to sit directly above the > > upright supports of the stand. This is another one of them physics > problems > > that I understand in my head but may not be able to explain to others > > properly. > > Hopefully your LFS guy knows about this design feature in aquarium stands. > > If you can give me dimensions (mainly the footprint - L x W dimensions) of > > the tank and stand and the manufacturer and/or model number of the > stand, I > > would be able to check this out and advise better. I just don't want > you to > > wake up to a disaster one day. > > BTW... Angelfish are cichlids so you could get them and he should be > happy. > > Of course, he probably wants African Cichlids and Angelfish are S. > American > > Cichlids. If that is the case, then they would not mix, although some > > species might work but it wouldn't be the best thing for the fish since > > their water parameter preferences are much different. > > As far as easy plants, see my blog article, "Planted Tank - So You Want A > > Planted Tank?" which has LOTS of info and links to other sites with LOTS > > more info for beginners who want a planted tank including lots of > choices of > > good beginner plants that are easy to grow. > > If he also likes the idea of a planted tank, then your Angelfish Cichlids > > and maybe a S. American Biotope would be the way to go since African > > Cichlids like rocks and lots of rocks... not plants. > > I hope you get this reply. I know you recently said you were not getting > > email from the group properly... dang Yahoo! > > Lenny Vasbinder > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com > > (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right > > side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) > > -----Original Message----- > > From: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com [mailto:AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. > com] On > > Behalf Of Heather > > Sent: Friday, September 11, 2009 10:22 PM > > To: aquatic life > > Subject: [AquaticLife] Picked up my 65 gallon tonight > > Well I went and picked up my 65 gallon tank tonight and a stand that is > > actually for a 125 gallon but it was free and has lower cabinets and > drawers > > which is awesome. Our local fish guy is a great guy. I also bought a > > Marineland Pro Series Bio Wheel Power Filter 400 for a great price > which he > > told me was a great filter but that I might eventually need a second one > > depending on what kind of fish we decide on but I want this to be a > heavily > > planted tank so not sure I will need a second filter. > > Also picked up another 29 for very cheap which I will set up for my > albino > > clawed frog. > > So all in all the guppies and platies with stay in their 29 and the frog > > will be switched over from a 10 to a 29 and in a few months we will > start to > > add fish to the new tank. We will not be setting up the new tank until we > > clean, sand down and restain the stand and then will take it through the > > fishless cycling and then we will begin to add fish. My fiance really > wants > > to go with cichlids but Im not so sure thats what I want. I want to be > able > > to have angels as I really like angels and my favorite of course is danios > > and I want them and cichlids would make that impossible so we are still > > discussing what type of fish to put in so it may be quite some time before > > we make any decisions and actually add fish. I also would like this to > be a > > planted tank so I will probably start on that part right away after we get > > it all set up. I can go ahead and begin to put aquatic plants in right > away > > after it is set up...right? I always added my plants quite a bit after my > > fish in the past and have never had a tank as planted as I would like this > > one to be so I would love some advice on the easiest aquatic plants to > care > > for in a heavily planted tank and what else I would need to keep them > > healthy and well living...lol! > > I know I have rambled on and on but I am excited about the new tank and > > about getting plants into and eventually fish and would love any > suggestions > > on the plant topic because I am still very new at the whole aquatic plant > > thing. My frog tank has a few plants but I havent had to do much for them > > and my tanks in the past had some that my pleco usually ended up shredding > > which wasnt so pretty....lol and Ihad some duckweed in one of my 55's > which > > took over and I didnt like that much. > > Anyway thanks for listening to me ramble about my new tanks and again any > > advice, tips, suggestions are more than welcome. > > Heather > > > > > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 43401	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 9/12/2009
Subject: Re: Air Pumps

I think you may only have the 300 but you would have to look at the bottom of the unit in the raised lettering area to know for certain. My 300 has a control knob as well but only one output. The 400's have two outputs and two separate control knobs. Mine is 5-6 years old so maybe they've changed things. Not that it matters, as long as yours is giving you the power you need, I just don't want you to have someone else buy a 400 when they could get by with a 300. I know my 300 is more than powerful enough for running the 2' wand I had in my tank back then and I bought it because it was supposed to be enough for me to add one or two splitters/valves and run even more things in other tanks if needed. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Amber Berglund Sent: Saturday, September 12, 2009 3:39 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: Air Pumps I have a splitter valve on the side of the tank in case I want/need more decorations with air ;) I have the rena 400 because it has the knob on top to up the output or lower it if needed, all the models under the 400 do not have this knob. It has only one output as you said. Amber Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > > > Well, a 48" bubble wand does not have as much surface area as 16 1" > diameter > air stones. The bubble wand probably has a couple of holes wide, > running the entire length of the wand where the 1" diameter stones > might have the same number of holes, but all bunched up together. I > would venture to say that the 16 1" air stones have a LOT more surface > area, capable of producing bubbles, than the 48" bubble wand. I > thought you decided you have the Rena Air 300 since you only have one > output.. right???... or do you have two outlets built into the pump or > do you have a splitter valve that was going to both of your bubble > decorations. > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> (Links to any articles referenced in > above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels > and also under Archives by Year, Month) > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On Behalf Of Amber Berglund > Sent: Friday, September 11, 2009 10:51 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: Air Pumps > > How about with a 4 foot air stone? ;) LOL. > I have my rena air 400 running only one airstone, but it's 4 feet > long, not > 16 inches;) I also have it throttled back a little as well, it can put > out bigger bubbles but I prefer smaller bubbles, and so do the fish. > Can you say "Eek the bubble is coming for me?" LOL. Not all fish enjoy > bubbles, my rams seem to enjoy playing in the bubbles though, and the > Severum seems to ignore them mostly. > > Amber > > Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > > > > > > It depends on how many things you are operating. Back in the "old > days"... > > man that has been coming up a lot lately... folks had air powered > > UGF filters, sponge filters, air stones, bubble wands and > > decorations so that some of their tanks looked more like a hot tub > > than a natural water > body. > > > > The Rena Air 400 is rated for more than just a 40G. It has a range. > > This website http://www.aquariumguys.com/renaairpump4.html > <http://www.aquariumguys.com/renaairpump4.html> > > <http://www.aquariumguys.com/renaairpump4.html > <http://www.aquariumguys.com/renaairpump4.html>> says "The Rena Air > > Pump 400 is for aquariums up to 150 gallons that are 36" deep with > > up to 16-1" airstones." I stated earlier in the thread that I have a > > Rena Air 300 (with only one air output) and it powered a 2' bubble > > wand on my 65G tank and I'm pretty sure I had to throttle back the > > air volume to keep the weighted bubble wand from wanting to float > > away. "The Rena Air 300 is for aquariums up to 75 gallons that are > > 24" deep with up to 8-1" airstones.", according to > > http://www.aquariumguys.com/renaairpump3.html > <http://www.aquariumguys.com/renaairpump3.html> > > <http://www.aquariumguys.com/renaairpump3.html > <http://www.aquariumguys.com/renaairpump3.html>> > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>> > (Links to any articles referenced in > > above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under > > Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On Behalf Of Amber Berglund > > Sent: Friday, September 11, 2009 10:02 PM > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: Air Pumps > > > > LOL, guess I should learn to read descriptions, I noticed on the > > site it says that the 400 model's and higher have the knobs, so I > > definitely have a 400 model, and it puts out plenty of bubbles for > > my > > 125 gallon tank, and it's only recommended for 40 gallons (hmm, > > wonder why?), anyone have any idea why they recommend such low tank volumes? > > Mine works just fine. > > > > Amber > > > > Amber Berglund wrote: > > > I use one of these Air pumps in my 125 gallon tank and it seems to > > > do the trick to put out enough bubbles in my 4 foot bubble "stick" > > > (one of those bendable bubble wands). I have another ornament > > > hooked up to it but it stopped putting out bubbles, I think it's > > > clogged, so I just turned off the valve and only have the bubble > > > wand bubbling > instead. > > > > > > http://www.drsfostersmith.com/product/prod_display.cfm?c=3578+3669+197 > <http://www.drsfostersmith.com/product/prod_display.cfm?c=3578+3669+19 > 7> > > > <http://www.drsfostersmith.com/product/prod_display.cfm?c=3578+3669+19 > <http://www.drsfostersmith.com/product/prod_display.cfm?c=3578+3669+19 > > > > 7> > > > 79&pcatid=19779 > > > > > > It has a handy knob on the top to either turn the pressure up or > > > down, if you don't need as much pressure for your bubbles. > > > I'm not exactly sure which model I have, but it only has one > > > outlet on it, so it's one of the 3 "lesser" models listed, but I > > > know it's not the cheapest one, I got either a 300 or a 400, can't > > > remember now, since I bought it a year ago ;) LOL. > > > It's a good sale going on though. > > > > > > Amber > > > > > > Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > > >> > > >> > > >> I hope this one has enough Ummmph to push air to the bottom of > > >> your tank. > > >> That's where the PSI comes in handy. How much higher PSI rating > > >> did the Rena have? Since it was designed for hydroponics, I'm not > > >> sure their water systems are very deep... in fact, I think they > > >> are rather shallow trays, but I could be wrong. This page shows > > >> the deepest of three plant containers at less than 6" deep. > > >> http://homeharvest.com/hydroponicgrowingcontainers.htm > <http://homeharvest.com/hydroponicgrowingcontainers.htm> > > <http://homeharvest.com/hydroponicgrowingcontainers.htm > <http://homeharvest.com/hydroponicgrowingcontainers.htm>> > > >> <http://homeharvest.com/hydroponicgrowingcontainers.htm > <http://homeharvest.com/hydroponicgrowingcontainers.htm> > > <http://homeharvest.com/hydroponicgrowingcontainers.htm > <http://homeharvest.com/hydroponicgrowingcontainers.htm>>> > > >> > > >> This site even has a page about your new pump... > > >> http://www.4hydroponics.com/grow_room/dualDiaphragmPump.asp > <http://www.4hydroponics.com/grow_room/dualDiaphragmPump.asp> > > <http://www.4hydroponics.com/grow_room/dualDiaphragmPump.asp > <http://www.4hydroponics.com/grow_room/dualDiaphragmPump.asp>> > > >> <http://www.4hydroponics.com/grow_room/dualDiaphragmPump.asp > <http://www.4hydroponics.com/grow_room/dualDiaphragmPump.asp> > > <http://www.4hydroponics.com/grow_room/dualDiaphragmPump.asp > <http://www.4hydroponics.com/grow_room/dualDiaphragmPump.asp>>> with a > > >> lower price than what you paid also. Sorry to be the bearer of > > >> bad news. I see yours does include free shipping so maybe that > > >> will make the $54.95 price on this page more palatable compared > > >> to the > > >> $71.88 price on eBay. > > >> > > >> Worse case scenario, you could probably sell it on Craigslist in > > >> the "Grow Your Own" section. LOL I'm sure there are more of > > >> "those > kinds" > > >> of hydroponics users than folks that grow fruits and veggies. > > >> > > >> Lenny Vasbinder > > >> Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>> > > >> <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>>> > > (Links to any articles referenced in > > >> above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under > > >> Labels and also under Archives by Year, > > >> Month) > > >> > > >> -----Original Message----- > > >> From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > >> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > >> [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > >> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On Behalf Of kuradi8 > > >> Sent: Friday, September 11, 2009 6:41 PM > > >> To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > >> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > >> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > >> Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Air Pumps > > >> > > >> After having gotten burned by the wimpy pump, overkill seemed > > >> like a better option than another disappointment. And the 4 > > >> outlets give me the option of adding more (sing this) tiiiiny > > >> buuuubbles if the pump truly is up to the task. > > >> > > >> Both this one and the Rena are 8w. The Rena's PSI is higher. But > > >> this one's L/min is higher. So equal, worse, better... I figured > > >> they're pretty close. > > >> > > >> And believe it or not, I stayed in my meager price range. ;o) > > >> ~Kai > > >> > > >> --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > >> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>, "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" > > >> <GoldLenny@...> > > >> wrote: > > >> > > > >> > That one seems like overkill for a single tank... or were you > > >> > planning on adding a few more now? I thought you were looking > > >> > at the low-$40's or lower price range. ;-) > > >> > > > >> > Lenny Vasbinder > > >> > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>> > > >> <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>>> > > (Links to any articles > > >> > referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, > > >> > alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, > > >> > Month) > > >> > > > >> > > > >> > -----Original Message----- > > >> > Kai wrote: > > >> > > > >> > For those of you who might remember my air pump dilemma, > > >> > > > >> > Well, I took the plunge. I'd had my eye on a Rena 400 but got a > > >> > good deal on one of these instead. This is not where I got the > > >> > pump from but this ebay listing describes it best: > > >> > http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=300343244939 > <http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=300343244939> > > <http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=300343244939 > <http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=300343244939>> > > >> <http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=300343244939 > <http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=300343244939> > > <http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=300343244939 > <http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=300343244939>>> > > >> > > > >> > It's for my 55g and will replace a very disappointingly wimpy > > >> > Whisper-60. I hope I chose well. Did I? > > >> > ~Kai

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 43402	From: bill 1433	Date: 9/12/2009
Subject: Re: Lenny--RE: [AquaticLife] Picked up my 65 gallon tonight

Amber,   Convicts get big enough.  What to do?  More convicts, but no other tankmates.  Your correct, they are nasty buggers.   Bill --- On Sat, 9/12/09, Amber Berglund <arberglund@...> wrote: From: Amber Berglund <arberglund@...> Subject: Re: Lenny--RE: [AquaticLife] Picked up my 65 gallon tonight To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Date: Saturday, September 12, 2009, 4:40 PM Convicts are nasty little fish if they want to be. I had one that beat up my oscar so bad that I had to remove the little thing and take it back to the fish store. This was years ago though, I haven't had oscars since then. I do enjoy my Severum though, "he" has lots of personality just like Oscars do, but like Oscars they get very big. Amber Heather wrote: >  > >  This stand is actually made out of 3/4 inch plywood which has a > center cabinet with center supports on both sides of the cabinet door > and then drawers on either side of the cabinet. Can I send pictures > through the group...I will take some and send them through if I can. >  And yes Tim wants the african cichlids and he really likes convicts > which I am also not so fond of...lol! > > Huge Hugs~Heather > > http://www.youravon.com/hbroschayt <http://www.youravon.com/hbroschayt> > > --- On Fri, 9/11/09, Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@... > <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com>> wrote: > > From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@... > <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com>> > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Picked up my 65 gallon tonight > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Date: Friday, September 11, 2009, 11:00 PM > >  > > Did you say your LFS sold you the stand and the tank? Do they have the > same > > foot print? The reason I ask is that most aquarium stands are designed for > > the four sides to carry the weight of the aquarium since the aquariums > stand > > displaces all of the weight on the four bottom-sides of the tank's frame. > > If your stand is 60" x 24" and your tank is 48" x 18", then the > stand's top > > may not be designed to hold your tank. The top may just be more of a > > decorative piece of wood or particle board where the stand is designed for > > the tank's four bottom-side framing sections to sit directly above the > > upright supports of the stand. This is another one of them physics > problems > > that I understand in my head but may not be able to explain to others > > properly. > > Hopefully your LFS guy knows about this design feature in aquarium stands. > > If you can give me dimensions (mainly the footprint - L x W dimensions) of > > the tank and stand and the manufacturer and/or model number of the > stand, I > > would be able to check this out and advise better. I just don't want > you to > > wake up to a disaster one day. > > BTW... Angelfish are cichlids so you could get them and he should be > happy. > > Of course, he probably wants African Cichlids and Angelfish are S. > American > > Cichlids. If that is the case, then they would not mix, although some > > species might work but it wouldn't be the best thing for the fish since > > their water parameter preferences are much different. > > As far as easy plants, see my blog article, "Planted Tank - So You Want A > > Planted Tank?" which has LOTS of info and links to other sites with LOTS > > more info for beginners who want a planted tank including lots of > choices of > > good beginner plants that are easy to grow. > > If he also likes the idea of a planted tank, then your Angelfish Cichlids > > and maybe a S. American Biotope would be the way to go since African > > Cichlids like rocks and lots of rocks... not plants. > > I hope you get this reply. I know you recently said you were not getting > > email from the group properly... dang Yahoo! > > Lenny Vasbinder > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com > > (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right > > side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) > > -----Original Message----- > > From: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com [mailto:AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. > com] On > > Behalf Of Heather > > Sent: Friday, September 11, 2009 10:22 PM > > To: aquatic life > > Subject: [AquaticLife] Picked up my 65 gallon tonight > >  Well I went and picked up my 65 gallon tank tonight and a stand that is > > actually for a 125 gallon but it was free and has lower cabinets and > drawers > > which is awesome. Our local fish guy is a great guy. I also bought a > > Marineland Pro Series Bio Wheel Power Filter 400 for a great price > which he > > told me was a great filter but that I might eventually need a second one > > depending on what kind of fish we decide on but I want this to be a > heavily > > planted tank so not sure I will need a second filter. > >  Also picked up another 29 for very cheap which I will set up for my > albino > > clawed frog. > >  So all in all the guppies and platies with stay in their 29 and the frog > > will be switched over from a 10 to a 29 and in a few months we will > start to > > add fish to the new tank. We will not be setting up the new tank until we > > clean, sand down and restain the stand and then will take it through the > > fishless cycling and then we will begin to add fish. My fiance really > wants > > to go with cichlids but Im not so sure thats what I want. I want to be > able > > to have angels as I really like angels and my favorite of course is danios > > and I want them and cichlids would make that impossible so we are still > > discussing what type of fish to put in so it may be quite some time before > > we make any decisions and actually add fish. I also would like this to > be a > > planted tank so I will probably start on that part right away after we get > > it all set up. I can go ahead and begin to put aquatic plants in right > away > > after it is set up...right? I always added my plants quite a bit after my > > fish in the past and have never had a tank as planted as I would like this > > one to be so I would love some advice on the easiest aquatic plants to > care > > for in a heavily planted tank and what else I would need to keep them > > healthy and well living...lol! > >  I know I have rambled on and on but I am excited about the new tank and > > about getting plants into and eventually fish and would love any > suggestions > > on the plant topic because I am still very new at the whole aquatic plant > > thing. My frog tank has a few plants but I havent had to do much for them > > and my tanks in the past had some that my pleco usually ended up shredding > > which wasnt so pretty....lol and Ihad some duckweed in one of my 55's > which > > took over and I didnt like that much. > >  Anyway thanks for listening to me ramble about my new tanks and again any > > advice, tips, suggestions are more than welcome. > > Heather > > > > > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > ------------------------------------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the home page.  Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com to receive the digest, which includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com for the No E-Mail option where you will still be able to read messages on the group and post replies. Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com to receive individual e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 43403	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 9/12/2009
Subject: Re: Air Pumps

I was going by the drsfostersmith.com air pumps. They say the 400 and lower has only 1 outlet and only the 400 and higher has a control knob on top. I can always go check if it's that big of a deal ;) LOL. Amber Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > > > I think you may only have the 300 but you would have to look at the bottom > of the unit in the raised lettering area to know for certain. My 300 has a > control knob as well but only one output. The 400's have two outputs and > two separate control knobs. Mine is 5-6 years old so maybe they've changed > things. Not that it matters, as long as yours is giving you the power you > need, I just don't want you to have someone else buy a 400 when they could > get by with a 300. I know my 300 is more than powerful enough for running > the 2' wand I had in my tank back then and I bought it because it was > supposed to be enough for me to add one or two splitters/valves and > run even > more things in other tanks if needed. > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right > side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On > Behalf Of Amber Berglund > Sent: Saturday, September 12, 2009 3:39 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: Air Pumps > > I have a splitter valve on the side of the tank in case I want/need more > decorations with air ;) I have the rena 400 because it has the knob on top > to up the output or lower it if needed, all the models under the 400 > do not > have this knob. > It has only one output as you said. > > Amber > > Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > > > > > > Well, a 48" bubble wand does not have as much surface area as 16 1" > > diameter > > air stones. The bubble wand probably has a couple of holes wide, > > running the entire length of the wand where the 1" diameter stones > > might have the same number of holes, but all bunched up together. I > > would venture to say that the 16 1" air stones have a LOT more surface > > area, capable of producing bubbles, than the 48" bubble wand. I > > thought you decided you have the Rena Air 300 since you only have one > > output.. right???... or do you have two outlets built into the pump or > > do you have a splitter valve that was going to both of your bubble > > decorations. > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>> > (Links to any articles referenced in > > above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels > > and also under Archives by Year, Month) > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On Behalf Of Amber Berglund > > Sent: Friday, September 11, 2009 10:51 PM > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: Air Pumps > > > > How about with a 4 foot air stone? ;) LOL. > > I have my rena air 400 running only one airstone, but it's 4 feet > > long, not > > 16 inches;) I also have it throttled back a little as well, it can put > > out bigger bubbles but I prefer smaller bubbles, and so do the fish. > > Can you say "Eek the bubble is coming for me?" LOL. Not all fish enjoy > > bubbles, my rams seem to enjoy playing in the bubbles though, and the > > Severum seems to ignore them mostly. > > > > Amber > > > > Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > > > > > > > > > It depends on how many things you are operating. Back in the "old > > days"... > > > man that has been coming up a lot lately... folks had air powered > > > UGF filters, sponge filters, air stones, bubble wands and > > > decorations so that some of their tanks looked more like a hot tub > > > than a natural water > > body. > > > > > > The Rena Air 400 is rated for more than just a 40G. It has a range. > > > This website http://www.aquariumguys.com/renaairpump4.html > <http://www.aquariumguys.com/renaairpump4.html> > > <http://www.aquariumguys.com/renaairpump4.html > <http://www.aquariumguys.com/renaairpump4.html>> > > > <http://www.aquariumguys.com/renaairpump4.html > <http://www.aquariumguys.com/renaairpump4.html> > > <http://www.aquariumguys.com/renaairpump4.html > <http://www.aquariumguys.com/renaairpump4.html>>> says "The Rena Air > > > Pump 400 is for aquariums up to 150 gallons that are 36" deep with > > > up to 16-1" airstones." I stated earlier in the thread that I have a > > > Rena Air 300 (with only one air output) and it powered a 2' bubble > > > wand on my 65G tank and I'm pretty sure I had to throttle back the > > > air volume to keep the weighted bubble wand from wanting to float > > > away. "The Rena Air 300 is for aquariums up to 75 gallons that are > > > 24" deep with up to 8-1" airstones.", according to > > > http://www.aquariumguys.com/renaairpump3.html > <http://www.aquariumguys.com/renaairpump3.html> > > <http://www.aquariumguys.com/renaairpump3.html > <http://www.aquariumguys.com/renaairpump3.html>> > > > <http://www.aquariumguys.com/renaairpump3.html > <http://www.aquariumguys.com/renaairpump3.html> > > <http://www.aquariumguys.com/renaairpump3.html > <http://www.aquariumguys.com/renaairpump3.html>>> > > > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>> > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>>> > > (Links to any articles referenced in > > > above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under > > > Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On Behalf Of Amber Berglund > > > Sent: Friday, September 11, 2009 10:02 PM > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: Air Pumps > > > > > > LOL, guess I should learn to read descriptions, I noticed on the > > > site it says that the 400 model's and higher have the knobs, so I > > > definitely have a 400 model, and it puts out plenty of bubbles for > > > my > > > 125 gallon tank, and it's only recommended for 40 gallons (hmm, > > > wonder why?), anyone have any idea why they recommend such low tank > volumes? > > > Mine works just fine. > > > > > > Amber > > > > > > Amber Berglund wrote: > > > > I use one of these Air pumps in my 125 gallon tank and it seems to > > > > do the trick to put out enough bubbles in my 4 foot bubble "stick" > > > > (one of those bendable bubble wands). I have another ornament > > > > hooked up to it but it stopped putting out bubbles, I think it's > > > > clogged, so I just turned off the valve and only have the bubble > > > > wand bubbling > > instead. > > > > > > > > > > http://www.drsfostersmith.com/product/prod_display.cfm?c=3578+3669+197 > <http://www.drsfostersmith.com/product/prod_display.cfm?c=3578+3669+197> > > > <http://www.drsfostersmith.com/product/prod_display.cfm?c=3578+3669+19 > <http://www.drsfostersmith.com/product/prod_display.cfm?c=3578+3669+19> > > 7> > > > > > > <http://www.drsfostersmith.com/product/prod_display.cfm?c=3578+3669+19 > <http://www.drsfostersmith.com/product/prod_display.cfm?c=3578+3669+19> > > > <http://www.drsfostersmith.com/product/prod_display.cfm?c=3578+3669+19 > <http://www.drsfostersmith.com/product/prod_display.cfm?c=3578+3669+19> > > > > > > 7> > > > > 79&pcatid=19779 > > > > > > > > It has a handy knob on the top to either turn the pressure up or > > > > down, if you don't need as much pressure for your bubbles. > > > > I'm not exactly sure which model I have, but it only has one > > > > outlet on it, so it's one of the 3 "lesser" models listed, but I > > > > know it's not the cheapest one, I got either a 300 or a 400, can't > > > > remember now, since I bought it a year ago ;) LOL. > > > > It's a good sale going on though. > > > > > > > > Amber > > > > > > > > Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > > > >> > > > >> > > > >> I hope this one has enough Ummmph to push air to the bottom of > > > >> your tank. > > > >> That's where the PSI comes in handy. How much higher PSI rating > > > >> did the Rena have? Since it was designed for hydroponics, I'm not > > > >> sure their water systems are very deep... in fact, I think they > > > >> are rather shallow trays, but I could be wrong. This page shows > > > >> the deepest of three plant containers at less than 6" deep. > > > >> http://homeharvest.com/hydroponicgrowingcontainers.htm > <http://homeharvest.com/hydroponicgrowingcontainers.htm> > > <http://homeharvest.com/hydroponicgrowingcontainers.htm > <http://homeharvest.com/hydroponicgrowingcontainers.htm>> > > > <http://homeharvest.com/hydroponicgrowingcontainers.htm > <http://homeharvest.com/hydroponicgrowingcontainers.htm> > > <http://homeharvest.com/hydroponicgrowingcontainers.htm > <http://homeharvest.com/hydroponicgrowingcontainers.htm>>> > > > >> <http://homeharvest.com/hydroponicgrowingcontainers.htm > <http://homeharvest.com/hydroponicgrowingcontainers.htm> > > <http://homeharvest.com/hydroponicgrowingcontainers.htm > <http://homeharvest.com/hydroponicgrowingcontainers.htm>> > > > <http://homeharvest.com/hydroponicgrowingcontainers.htm > <http://homeharvest.com/hydroponicgrowingcontainers.htm> > > <http://homeharvest.com/hydroponicgrowingcontainers.htm > <http://homeharvest.com/hydroponicgrowingcontainers.htm>>>> > > > >> > > > >> This site even has a page about your new pump... > > > >> http://www.4hydroponics.com/grow_room/dualDiaphragmPump.asp > <http://www.4hydroponics.com/grow_room/dualDiaphragmPump.asp> > > <http://www.4hydroponics.com/grow_room/dualDiaphragmPump.asp > <http://www.4hydroponics.com/grow_room/dualDiaphragmPump.asp>> > > > <http://www.4hydroponics.com/grow_room/dualDiaphragmPump.asp > <http://www.4hydroponics.com/grow_room/dualDiaphragmPump.asp> > > <http://www.4hydroponics.com/grow_room/dualDiaphragmPump.asp > <http://www.4hydroponics.com/grow_room/dualDiaphragmPump.asp>>> > > > >> <http://www.4hydroponics.com/grow_room/dualDiaphragmPump.asp > <http://www.4hydroponics.com/grow_room/dualDiaphragmPump.asp> > > <http://www.4hydroponics.com/grow_room/dualDiaphragmPump.asp > <http://www.4hydroponics.com/grow_room/dualDiaphragmPump.asp>> > > > <http://www.4hydroponics.com/grow_room/dualDiaphragmPump.asp > <http://www.4hydroponics.com/grow_room/dualDiaphragmPump.asp> > > <http://www.4hydroponics.com/grow_room/dualDiaphragmPump.asp > <http://www.4hydroponics.com/grow_room/dualDiaphragmPump.asp>>>> with a > > > >> lower price than what you paid also. Sorry to be the bearer of > > > >> bad news. I see yours does include free shipping so maybe that > > > >> will make the $54.95 price on this page more palatable compared > > > >> to the > > > >> $71.88 price on eBay. > > > >> > > > >> Worse case scenario, you could probably sell it on Craigslist in > > > >> the "Grow Your Own" section. LOL I'm sure there are more of > > > >> "those > > kinds" > > > >> of hydroponics users than folks that grow fruits and veggies. > > > >> > > > >> Lenny Vasbinder > > > >> Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>> > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>>> > > > >> <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>> > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>>>> > > > (Links to any articles referenced in > > > >> above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under > > > >> Labels and also under Archives by Year, > > > >> Month) > > > >> > > > >> -----Original Message----- > > > >> From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > >> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > >> [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > >> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On Behalf Of kuradi8 > > > >> Sent: Friday, September 11, 2009 6:41 PM > > > >> To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > >> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > >> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > >> Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Air Pumps > > > >> > > > >> After having gotten burned by the wimpy pump, overkill seemed > > > >> like a better option than another disappointment. And the 4 > > > >> outlets give me the option of adding more (sing this) tiiiiny > > > >> buuuubbles if the pump truly is up to the task. > > > >> > > > >> Both this one and the Rena are 8w. The Rena's PSI is higher. But > > > >> this one's L/min is higher. So equal, worse, better... I figured > > > >> they're pretty close. > > > >> > > > >> And believe it or not, I stayed in my meager price range. ;o) > > > >> ~Kai > > > >> > > > >> --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > >> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>, "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" > > > >> <GoldLenny@...> > > > >> wrote: > > > >> > > > > >> > That one seems like overkill for a single tank... or were you > > > >> > planning on adding a few more now? I thought you were looking > > > >> > at the low-$40's or lower price range. ;-) > > > >> > > > > >> > Lenny Vasbinder > > > >> > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>> > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>>> > > > >> <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>> > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>>>> > > > (Links to any articles > > > >> > referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, > > > >> > alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, > > > >> > Month) > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > -----Original Message----- > > > >> > Kai wrote: > > > >> > > > > >> > For those of you who might remember my air pump dilemma, > > > >> > > > > >> > Well, I took the plunge. I'd had my eye on a Rena 400 but got a > > > >> > good deal on one of these instead. This is not where I got the > > > >> > pump from but this ebay listing describes it best: > > > >> > > http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=300343244939 > <http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=300343244939> > > <http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=300343244939 > <http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=300343244939>> > > > <http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=300343244939 > <http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=300343244939> > > <http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=300343244939 > <http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=300343244939>>> > > > >> > <http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=300343244939 > <http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=300343244939> > > <http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=300343244939 > <http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=300343244939>> > > > <http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=300343244939 > <http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=300343244939> > > <http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=300343244939 > <http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=300343244939>>>> > > > >> > > > > >> > It's for my 55g and will replace a very disappointingly wimpy > > > >> > Whisper-60. I hope I chose well. Did I? > > > >> > ~Kai > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 43404	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 9/12/2009
Subject: Y! Alert: Yahoo! Groups Blog - Login issues for Firefox users

AND IE8 USERS TOO.... at least there have been for me. I just figured it was one of Yahoo's typical server glitches that come and go. Read more below my sig. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: Yahoo! Alerts [mailto:alerts@...] Sent: Saturday, September 12, 2009 5:01 PM To: GoldLenny@... Subject: Y! Alert: Yahoo! Groups Blog Login issues for Firefox users (AND IE8 USERS TOO... AT LEAST FOR LENNY) http://www.ygroupsblog.com http://www.ygroupsblog.com/blog/2009/09/11/login-issues-for-firefox-users/ Several of you have reported that when visiting your groups, you're repeatedly asked to enter your password in order for you to proceed. While this is the expected behavior if you haven't logged in two weeks, or, are attempting to add users to your group, this should not be happening when you're simply trying to access a group or post a message through the web. We are currently investigating this issue, but believe that users who recently upgraded to the newest version of Firefox (3.5.2 or 3.5.3) are impacted by this problem. Until the issue is resolved, we suggest using a different browser for the time-being (ex: Internet Explorer, Safari, or Opera). Or, you may participate in your groups by posting messages via email. We'll be sure to update you all here as soon as we have more information and/or the issue is resolved. Thanks for your patience! Melissa Daniels Yahoo! Community Manager

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 43405	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 9/12/2009
Subject: Re: Y! Alert: Yahoo! Groups Blog - Login issues for Firefox users

I have had no problems logging in with both Firefox 3.5.2 or, now, 3.5.3. On the other hand, my lady has had a problem logging in with one of the lists that she belongs to, but not with any of the lists she owns with 3.5.2, but she has not complained since 3.5.3 was released, though I do not know if she has upgraded to it. \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Lenny V. aka GoldLenny Sent: Saturday, September 12, 2009 7:17 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Y! Alert: Yahoo! Groups Blog - Login issues for Firefox users AND IE8 USERS TOO.... at least there have been for me. I just figured it was one of Yahoo's typical server glitches that come and go. Read more below my sig. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: Yahoo! Alerts [mailto:alerts@...] Sent: Saturday, September 12, 2009 5:01 PM To: GoldLenny@... Subject: Y! Alert: Yahoo! Groups Blog Login issues for Firefox users (AND IE8 USERS TOO... AT LEAST FOR LENNY) http://www.ygroupsblog.com http://www.ygroupsblog.com/blog/2009/09/11/login-issues-for-firefox-user s/ Several of you have reported that when visiting your groups, you're repeatedly asked to enter your password in order for you to proceed. While this is the expected behavior if you haven't logged in two weeks, or, are attempting to add users to your group, this should not be happening when you're simply trying to access a group or post a message through the web. We are currently investigating this issue, but believe that users who recently upgraded to the newest version of Firefox (3.5.2 or 3.5.3) are impacted by this problem. Until the issue is resolved, we suggest using a different browser for the time-being (ex: Internet Explorer, Safari, or Opera). Or, you may participate in your groups by posting messages via email. We'll be sure to update you all here as soon as we have more information and/or the issue is resolved. Thanks for your patience! Melissa Daniels Yahoo! Community Manager

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 43406	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 9/12/2009
Subject: Re: Y! Alert: Yahoo! Groups Blog - Login issues for Firefox users

They added an update to the blog, based on the comments they were getting... "UPDATE: In the comments below we've noticed that some of you are running into this issue with IE and Opera. If this is the case, please report it to Customer Care http://help.yahoo.com/l/us/yahoo/groups/original/members/forms/general.html and include your browser, your browser's version, and your operating system so we can better track down the issue." I haven't done this since I figure hundreds/thousands of others have already done so. I'm not sure why Yahoo Groups is trying to blame this on browsers, rather than admit it's their issue. Here's the top four comments out of 44. Glen Swift said, September 11, 2009 @ 11:21 pm Don't blame Firefox. I use Internet Explorer (and always have) and tonight I've had to log in at least eight separate times, for no good reason, though mainly when I'm trying to reply to a message or use the back button to return to the list of messages from the message I just finished reading. rik said, September 12, 2009 @ 3:24 am Firefox 2 on XP as well, seems more a Yahoo problem rather than browser Deborah S. said, September 12, 2009 @ 3:25 am I also use Intnet Explorer (and always have), but now I have this problem too. Mostly when switching between my e-gtroups, and with no good reason since I log in daily. And now, more than the log in problem.. Seems that I cannot reply to messages in my groups via the web page (which I have almost always done, I rarely reply via e-mail). When I try to reply, I get a notice that the message (number xxxx) cannot be retrieved. THis is very frustrating, this is NEW problem, and, again, it's not Firefox. I use Interntet Explorer and no other broweser. Hope you can solve this, soon. Brent said, September 12, 2009 @ 4:25 am I am having the same problem on IE8 and Chrome. I also had Yahoo Groups continually ask for my password on my iPhone. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Steve Szabo Sent: Saturday, September 12, 2009 9:40 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Y! Alert: Yahoo! Groups Blog - Login issues for Firefox users I have had no problems logging in with both Firefox 3.5.2 or, now, 3.5.3. On the other hand, my lady has had a problem logging in with one of the lists that she belongs to, but not with any of the lists she owns with 3.5.2, but she has not complained since 3.5.3 was released, though I do not know if she has upgraded to it. \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Lenny V. aka GoldLenny Sent: Saturday, September 12, 2009 7:17 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Y! Alert: Yahoo! Groups Blog - Login issues for Firefox users AND IE8 USERS TOO.... at least there have been for me. I just figured it was one of Yahoo's typical server glitches that come and go. Read more below my sig. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: Yahoo! Alerts [mailto:alerts@...] Sent: Saturday, September 12, 2009 5:01 PM To: GoldLenny@... Subject: Y! Alert: Yahoo! Groups Blog Login issues for Firefox users (AND IE8 USERS TOO... AT LEAST FOR LENNY) http://www.ygroupsblog.com http://www.ygroupsblog.com/blog/2009/09/11/login-issues-for-firefox-users/ Several of you have reported that when visiting your groups, you're repeatedly asked to enter your password in order for you to proceed. While this is the expected behavior if you haven't logged in two weeks, or, are attempting to add users to your group, this should not be happening when you're simply trying to access a group or post a message through the web. We are currently investigating this issue, but believe that users who recently upgraded to the newest version of Firefox (3.5.2 or 3.5.3) are impacted by this problem. Until the issue is resolved, we suggest using a different browser for the time-being (ex: Internet Explorer, Safari, or Opera). Or, you may participate in your groups by posting messages via email. We'll be sure to update you all here as soon as we have more information and/or the issue is resolved. Thanks for your patience! Melissa Daniels Yahoo! Community Manager

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 43407	From: harry perry	Date: 9/13/2009
Subject: Re: Login issues/Opera

For quite some time I've had a problem with my computer. It would get so slow I had to reboot as much as 3 times in half an hour. I was running Firefox. I switched to Opera and it made all the difference in the world. The computer is running like it was knew and with Opera's "speed dial" option I bypassed all the password B.S. You should really try it . It speeds up your computer significantly. Harry                                                                             --- On Sun, 9/13/09, Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@...> wrote: From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@...> Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Y! Alert: Yahoo! Groups Blog - Login issues for Firefox users To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Date: Sunday, September 13, 2009, 2:40 AM   They added an update to the blog, based on the comments they were getting... "UPDATE: In the comments below we've noticed that some of you are running into this issue with IE and Opera. If this is the case, please report it to Customer Care http://help. yahoo.com/ l/us/yahoo/ groups/original/ members/forms/ general.html and include your browser, your browser's version, and your operating system so we can better track down the issue." I haven't done this since I figure hundreds/thousands of others have already done so. I'm not sure why Yahoo Groups is trying to blame this on browsers, rather than admit it's their issue. Here's the top four comments out of 44. Glen Swift said, September 11, 2009 @ 11:21 pm Don't blame Firefox. I use Internet Explorer (and always have) and tonight I've had to log in at least eight separate times, for no good reason, though mainly when I'm trying to reply to a message or use the back button to return to the list of messages from the message I just finished reading. rik said, September 12, 2009 @ 3:24 am Firefox 2 on XP as well, seems more a Yahoo problem rather than browser Deborah S. said, September 12, 2009 @ 3:25 am I also use Intnet Explorer (and always have), but now I have this problem too. Mostly when switching between my e-gtroups, and with no good reason since I log in daily. And now, more than the log in problem.. Seems that I cannot reply to messages in my groups via the web page (which I have almost always done, I rarely reply via e-mail). When I try to reply, I get a notice that the message (number xxxx) cannot be retrieved. THis is very frustrating, this is NEW problem, and, again, it's not Firefox. I use Interntet Explorer and no other broweser. Hope you can solve this, soon. Brent said, September 12, 2009 @ 4:25 am I am having the same problem on IE8 and Chrome. I also had Yahoo Groups continually ask for my password on my iPhone. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com [mailto:AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com] On Behalf Of Steve Szabo Sent: Saturday, September 12, 2009 9:40 PM To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Y! Alert: Yahoo! Groups Blog - Login issues for Firefox users I have had no problems logging in with both Firefox 3.5.2 or, now, 3.5.3. On the other hand, my lady has had a problem logging in with one of the lists that she belongs to, but not with any of the lists she owns with 3.5.2, but she has not complained since 3.5.3 was released, though I do not know if she has upgraded to it. \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com [mailto:AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com] On Behalf Of Lenny V. aka GoldLenny Sent: Saturday, September 12, 2009 7:17 PM To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com Subject: [AquaticLife] Y! Alert: Yahoo! Groups Blog - Login issues for Firefox users AND IE8 USERS TOO.... at least there have been for me. I just figured it was one of Yahoo's typical server glitches that come and go. Read more below my sig. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: Yahoo! Alerts [mailto:alerts@yahoo- inc.com] Sent: Saturday, September 12, 2009 5:01 PM To: GoldLenny@gmail. com Subject: Y! Alert: Yahoo! Groups Blog Login issues for Firefox users (AND IE8 USERS TOO... AT LEAST FOR LENNY) http://www.ygroupsb log.com http://www.ygroupsb log.com/blog/ 2009/09/11/ login-issues- for-firefox- users/ Several of you have reported that when visiting your groups, you're repeatedly asked to enter your password in order for you to proceed. While this is the expected behavior if you haven't logged in two weeks, or, are attempting to add users to your group, this should not be happening when you're simply trying to access a group or post a message through the web. We are currently investigating this issue, but believe that users who recently upgraded to the newest version of Firefox (3.5.2 or 3.5.3) are impacted by this problem. Until the issue is resolved, we suggest using a different browser for the time-being (ex: Internet Explorer, Safari, or Opera). Or, you may participate in your groups by posting messages via email. We'll be sure to update you all here as soon as we have more information and/or the issue is resolved. Thanks for your patience! Melissa Daniels Yahoo! Community Manager [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 43408	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 9/13/2009
Subject: Re: Login issues/Opera

My vast experience with computer users, although not as vast as \\Steve's// and maybe others, has shown that simply changing browsers does not usually solve computer problems. I'm glad it's working in your case but for the dozens of people that I've come across who were told to switch from IE to FF or Opera or Chrome, etc., that simply does not solve the problem since the problem is generally a PICNIC problem... not a computer problem. BTW, PICNIC means Problem In Chair, Not In Computer. In your case, I believe your computer is older so you do have to pick and choose which software you run as some will certainly use up more than others. I was just reading a post in one of the computer tech groups I subscribe to and he showed that FireFox was using twice as much of his computer's resources than IE8. I find that IE8 is very reliable to use, even on my oldest computer with only 384MB of RAM and a 16GB Hard Drive... to give folks an idea of how old it is. It actually only had 256MB of RAM but I had an extra 128MB stick that matched so I threw it in. I know, I should have added a matching 256MB stick but I didn't want to spend any money on this computer. That extra 128MB RAM stick made it noticeably faster for my elderly neighbor who uses that computer. I also have them running off of my wireless network and they are still amazed they can do all of this "internet stuff" without having to pay anything or even be connected to anything. LOL I even having them watching missed TV shows on HULU now... "turning their brains into mush, because we're aliens and that's how we roll!" They're thinking about turning off their cable to save some money now... I guess that beats eating cat food. LOL I've seen people (friends, co-workers, associates, etc.) constantly getting hit with malware, spyware, viruses, etc., and someone might tell them "Use FireFox, it's safer than IE" or some other rubbish like that, so the people switch and continue to have problems simply because they practice BAD surfing habits, refuse to learn basic computer security, etc. It's analogous to telling someone, "You need stronger locks on your doors" without telling them to close and lock their Windows (pun intended). ;-) The same thing happens with the Mac commercials and simply put, if the user does not practice basic security, there is nothing anyone can do to protect them. Certainly, hackers spend most of their time going after Microsoft, Windows, IE, etc., since they are the Goliath but ALL of those other computer operating systems, browsers, software, etc. are just and possibly even more vulnerable. What the supporters of these other options do not realize is that every time they promote their choice, they are making their choice more visible to hackers. FireFox and Apple are both seeing this. As they increase their market share, they are also under more and more attacks by hackers. Yes, you can use a more obscure browser like Opera or Chrome, or a more obscure computer OS like Mac's have, and you may feel less at risk, simply because the hackers may not spend as much time going after those browsers and OS, but you ARE NOT SAFE. You still have to practice safe surfing and have adequate computer security, meaning a good firewall (not the Windows firewall), good anti-virus and a couple of good anti-malware/spyware programs. All of these are available for FREE so there simply is NO REASON for everyone to not have them. Folks that choose to surf the net unprotected WILL get infected and infested and then their computers are used as zombies in a bot-net to create even more havoc for the rest of us. Even Apple is shipping their latest OS, Snow Leopard, with built in security software as they are seeing themselves under more and more web-based attacks. Like with irresponsible people having babies, I wish the Guv'ment would pass a law that says you have to be trained and licensed to have babies and/or using a computer on the net, instead of wasting our tax dollars on all the other crap that the Guv'ment does. Maybe ACORN could offer these services with more Guv'ment Grants... but I think they're too busy setting folks up with brothels right now. LOL Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of harry perry Sent: Sunday, September 13, 2009 2:22 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Login issues/Opera For quite some time I've had a problem with my computer. It would get so slow I had to reboot as much as 3 times in half an hour. I was running Firefox. I switched to Opera and it made all the difference in the world. The computer is running like it was knew and with Opera's "speed dial" option I bypassed all the password B.S. You should really try it . It speeds up your computer significantly. Harry                                                                             --- On Sun, 9/13/09, Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@...> wrote: From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@...> Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Y! Alert: Yahoo! Groups Blog - Login issues for Firefox users To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Date: Sunday, September 13, 2009, 2:40 AM They added an update to the blog, based on the comments they were getting... "UPDATE: In the comments below we've noticed that some of you are running into this issue with IE and Opera. If this is the case, please report it to Customer Care http://help. yahoo.com/ l/us/yahoo/ groups/original/ members/forms/ general.html and include your browser, your browser's version, and your operating system so we can better track down the issue." I haven't done this since I figure hundreds/thousands of others have already done so. I'm not sure why Yahoo Groups is trying to blame this on browsers, rather than admit it's their issue. Here's the top four comments out of 44. Glen Swift said, September 11, 2009 @ 11:21 pm Don't blame Firefox. I use Internet Explorer (and always have) and tonight I've had to log in at least eight separate times, for no good reason, though mainly when I'm trying to reply to a message or use the back button to return to the list of messages from the message I just finished reading. rik said, September 12, 2009 @ 3:24 am Firefox 2 on XP as well, seems more a Yahoo problem rather than browser Deborah S. said, September 12, 2009 @ 3:25 am I also use Intnet Explorer (and always have), but now I have this problem too. Mostly when switching between my e-gtroups, and with no good reason since I log in daily. And now, more than the log in problem.. Seems that I cannot reply to messages in my groups via the web page (which I have almost always done, I rarely reply via e-mail). When I try to reply, I get a notice that the message (number xxxx) cannot be retrieved. THis is very frustrating, this is NEW problem, and, again, it's not Firefox. I use Interntet Explorer and no other broweser. Hope you can solve this, soon. Brent said, September 12, 2009 @ 4:25 am I am having the same problem on IE8 and Chrome. I also had Yahoo Groups continually ask for my password on my iPhone. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com [mailto:AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com] On Behalf Of Steve Szabo Sent: Saturday, September 12, 2009 9:40 PM To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Y! Alert: Yahoo! Groups Blog - Login issues for Firefox users I have had no problems logging in with both Firefox 3.5.2 or, now, 3.5.3. On the other hand, my lady has had a problem logging in with one of the lists that she belongs to, but not with any of the lists she owns with 3.5.2, but she has not complained since 3.5.3 was released, though I do not know if she has upgraded to it. \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com [mailto:AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com] On Behalf Of Lenny V. aka GoldLenny Sent: Saturday, September 12, 2009 7:17 PM To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com Subject: [AquaticLife] Y! Alert: Yahoo! Groups Blog - Login issues for Firefox users AND IE8 USERS TOO.... at least there have been for me. I just figured it was one of Yahoo's typical server glitches that come and go. Read more below my sig. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: Yahoo! Alerts [mailto:alerts@yahoo- inc.com] Sent: Saturday, September 12, 2009 5:01 PM To: GoldLenny@gmail. com Subject: Y! Alert: Yahoo! Groups Blog Login issues for Firefox users (AND IE8 USERS TOO... AT LEAST FOR LENNY) http://www.ygroupsb log.com http://www.ygroupsb log.com/blog/ 2009/09/11/ login-issues- for-firefox- users/ Several of you have reported that when visiting your groups, you're repeatedly asked to enter your password in order for you to proceed. While this is the expected behavior if you haven't logged in two weeks, or, are attempting to add users to your group, this should not be happening when you're simply trying to access a group or post a message through the web. We are currently investigating this issue, but believe that users who recently upgraded to the newest version of Firefox (3.5.2 or 3.5.3) are impacted by this problem. Until the issue is resolved, we suggest using a different browser for the time-being (ex: Internet Explorer, Safari, or Opera). Or, you may participate in your groups by posting messages via email. We'll be sure to update you all here as soon as we have more information and/or the issue is resolved. Thanks for your patience! Melissa Daniels Yahoo! Community Manager

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 43409	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 9/13/2009
Subject: Re: Login issues/Opera

Harry, You do not give enough information here to make a valid conclusion. I've not yet seen a machine where Firefox was a problem in and of itself. I have seen certain add-ins give problems in certain configurations, but not across the board. There were a few versions that suffered from memory leaks, but that seems to have been resolved in the last few versions released. This, however, does not seem to be your problem since you say you have had to reboot several times within a half hour span. Did you use Task manager to check to see what was eating your CPU cycles prior to restarting? The only problem I run into with Firefox is with those sites that are designed for IE specifically. They will either not display correctly or not at all. \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of harry perry Sent: Sunday, September 13, 2009 3:22 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Login issues/Opera For quite some time I've had a problem with my computer. It would get so slow I had to reboot as much as 3 times in half an hour. I was running Firefox. I switched to Opera and it made all the difference in the world. The computer is running like it was knew and with Opera's "speed dial" option I bypassed all the password B.S. You should really try it . It speeds up your computer significantly. Harry                                                                             --- On Sun, 9/13/09, Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@...> wrote: From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@...> Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Y! Alert: Yahoo! Groups Blog - Login issues for Firefox users To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Date: Sunday, September 13, 2009, 2:40 AM They added an update to the blog, based on the comments they were getting... "UPDATE: In the comments below we've noticed that some of you are running into this issue with IE and Opera. If this is the case, please report it to Customer Care http://help. yahoo.com/ l/us/yahoo/ groups/original/ members/forms/ general.html and include your browser, your browser's version, and your operating system so we can better track down the issue." I haven't done this since I figure hundreds/thousands of others have already done so. I'm not sure why Yahoo Groups is trying to blame this on browsers, rather than admit it's their issue. Here's the top four comments out of 44. Glen Swift said, September 11, 2009 @ 11:21 pm Don't blame Firefox. I use Internet Explorer (and always have) and tonight I've had to log in at least eight separate times, for no good reason, though mainly when I'm trying to reply to a message or use the back button to return to the list of messages from the message I just finished reading. rik said, September 12, 2009 @ 3:24 am Firefox 2 on XP as well, seems more a Yahoo problem rather than browser Deborah S. said, September 12, 2009 @ 3:25 am I also use Intnet Explorer (and always have), but now I have this problem too. Mostly when switching between my e-gtroups, and with no good reason since I log in daily. And now, more than the log in problem.. Seems that I cannot reply to messages in my groups via the web page (which I have almost always done, I rarely reply via e-mail). When I try to reply, I get a notice that the message (number xxxx) cannot be retrieved. THis is very frustrating, this is NEW problem, and, again, it's not Firefox. I use Interntet Explorer and no other broweser. Hope you can solve this, soon. Brent said, September 12, 2009 @ 4:25 am I am having the same problem on IE8 and Chrome. I also had Yahoo Groups continually ask for my password on my iPhone. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com [mailto:AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com] On Behalf Of Steve Szabo Sent: Saturday, September 12, 2009 9:40 PM To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Y! Alert: Yahoo! Groups Blog - Login issues for Firefox users I have had no problems logging in with both Firefox 3.5.2 or, now, 3.5.3. On the other hand, my lady has had a problem logging in with one of the lists that she belongs to, but not with any of the lists she owns with 3.5.2, but she has not complained since 3.5.3 was released, though I do not know if she has upgraded to it. \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com [mailto:AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com] On Behalf Of Lenny V. aka GoldLenny Sent: Saturday, September 12, 2009 7:17 PM To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com Subject: [AquaticLife] Y! Alert: Yahoo! Groups Blog - Login issues for Firefox users AND IE8 USERS TOO.... at least there have been for me. I just figured it was one of Yahoo's typical server glitches that come and go. Read more below my sig. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: Yahoo! Alerts [mailto:alerts@yahoo- inc.com] Sent: Saturday, September 12, 2009 5:01 PM To: GoldLenny@gmail. com Subject: Y! Alert: Yahoo! Groups Blog Login issues for Firefox users (AND IE8 USERS TOO... AT LEAST FOR LENNY) http://www.ygroupsb log.com http://www.ygroupsb log.com/blog/ 2009/09/11/ login-issues- for-firefox- users/ Several of you have reported that when visiting your groups, you're repeatedly asked to enter your password in order for you to proceed. While this is the expected behavior if you haven't logged in two weeks, or, are attempting to add users to your group, this should not be happening when you're simply trying to access a group or post a message through the web. We are currently investigating this issue, but believe that users who recently upgraded to the newest version of Firefox (3.5.2 or 3.5.3) are impacted by this problem. Until the issue is resolved, we suggest using a different browser for the time-being (ex: Internet Explorer, Safari, or Opera). Or, you may participate in your groups by posting messages via email. We'll be sure to update you all here as soon as we have more information and/or the issue is resolved. Thanks for your patience! Melissa Daniels Yahoo! Community Manager

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 43410	From: Dora Smith	Date: 9/13/2009
Subject: Re: [Bulk] RE: [AquaticLife] Y! Alert: Yahoo! Groups Blog - Login is

Logging into what? It took me the longest time to figure out what you are talking about. I use firefox. I'll be glad to give it a try. Yours, Dora Smith Austin, TX tiggernut24@... ----- Original Message ----- From: "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@...> To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Sunday, September 13, 2009 1:40 AM Subject: [Bulk] RE: [AquaticLife] Y! Alert: Yahoo! Groups Blog - Login issues for Firefox users They added an update to the blog, based on the comments they were getting... "UPDATE: In the comments below we've noticed that some of you are running into this issue with IE and Opera. If this is the case, please report it to Customer Care http://help.yahoo.com/l/us/yahoo/groups/original/members/forms/general.html and include your browser, your browser's version, and your operating system so we can better track down the issue." I haven't done this since I figure hundreds/thousands of others have already done so. I'm not sure why Yahoo Groups is trying to blame this on browsers, rather than admit it's their issue. Here's the top four comments out of 44. Glen Swift said, September 11, 2009 @ 11:21 pm Don't blame Firefox. I use Internet Explorer (and always have) and tonight I've had to log in at least eight separate times, for no good reason, though mainly when I'm trying to reply to a message or use the back button to return to the list of messages from the message I just finished reading. rik said, September 12, 2009 @ 3:24 am Firefox 2 on XP as well, seems more a Yahoo problem rather than browser Deborah S. said, September 12, 2009 @ 3:25 am I also use Intnet Explorer (and always have), but now I have this problem too. Mostly when switching between my e-gtroups, and with no good reason since I log in daily. And now, more than the log in problem.. Seems that I cannot reply to messages in my groups via the web page (which I have almost always done, I rarely reply via e-mail). When I try to reply, I get a notice that the message (number xxxx) cannot be retrieved. THis is very frustrating, this is NEW problem, and, again, it's not Firefox. I use Interntet Explorer and no other broweser. Hope you can solve this, soon. Brent said, September 12, 2009 @ 4:25 am I am having the same problem on IE8 and Chrome. I also had Yahoo Groups continually ask for my password on my iPhone. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Steve Szabo Sent: Saturday, September 12, 2009 9:40 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Y! Alert: Yahoo! Groups Blog - Login issues for Firefox users I have had no problems logging in with both Firefox 3.5.2 or, now, 3.5.3. On the other hand, my lady has had a problem logging in with one of the lists that she belongs to, but not with any of the lists she owns with 3.5.2, but she has not complained since 3.5.3 was released, though I do not know if she has upgraded to it. \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Lenny V. aka GoldLenny Sent: Saturday, September 12, 2009 7:17 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Y! Alert: Yahoo! Groups Blog - Login issues for Firefox users AND IE8 USERS TOO.... at least there have been for me. I just figured it was one of Yahoo's typical server glitches that come and go. Read more below my sig. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: Yahoo! Alerts [mailto:alerts@...] Sent: Saturday, September 12, 2009 5:01 PM To: GoldLenny@... Subject: Y! Alert: Yahoo! Groups Blog Login issues for Firefox users (AND IE8 USERS TOO... AT LEAST FOR LENNY) http://www.ygroupsblog.com http://www.ygroupsblog.com/blog/2009/09/11/login-issues-for-firefox-users/ Several of you have reported that when visiting your groups, you're repeatedly asked to enter your password in order for you to proceed. While this is the expected behavior if you haven't logged in two weeks, or, are attempting to add users to your group, this should not be happening when you're simply trying to access a group or post a message through the web. We are currently investigating this issue, but believe that users who recently upgraded to the newest version of Firefox (3.5.2 or 3.5.3) are impacted by this problem. Until the issue is resolved, we suggest using a different browser for the time-being (ex: Internet Explorer, Safari, or Opera). Or, you may participate in your groups by posting messages via email. We'll be sure to update you all here as soon as we have more information and/or the issue is resolved. Thanks for your patience! Melissa Daniels Yahoo! Community Manager ------------------------------------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the home page. Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com to receive the digest, which includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com for the No E-Mail option where you will still be able to read messages on the group and post replies. Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com to receive individual e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 43411	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 9/13/2009
Subject: Re: Login issues/Opera

I've never used Opera but from reading about the Speed Dial thing, it just seems like something that I do with my Favorites folders in IE. At the very top of my Favorites list are the sites I visit often. I do this by "Renaming" them and putting a 0- in front of their names so that they all stay at the top when sorted. I also use LOTS of sub-folders to sort my HUGE assortment of links and keep them organized so I can find them when needed. While reading about Opera, I did see several "security" issue articles about Opera so while it is heralded as being "the safest" by some, if a hacker feels like spending time going after Opera, they certainly can. http://blogs.zdnet.com/security/?p=2093&tag=rbxccnbzd1 http://blogs.zdnet.com/security/?p=2012 Many of these same articles do say that Opera is faster than other web-browsers and maybe with an under-resourced computer, this could help out but like \\Steve// says, IE8, FF nor any other browser should cause a computer to have to be rebooted unless there are other underlying reasons. I know that Adobe Flash Ads do cause browsers to freeze up sometimes but then it's just a matter of closing the browser window and reopening it to fix that problem. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Steve Szabo Sent: Sunday, September 13, 2009 8:35 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Login issues/Opera Harry, You do not give enough information here to make a valid conclusion. I've not yet seen a machine where Firefox was a problem in and of itself. I have seen certain add-ins give problems in certain configurations, but not across the board. There were a few versions that suffered from memory leaks, but that seems to have been resolved in the last few versions released. This, however, does not seem to be your problem since you say you have had to reboot several times within a half hour span. Did you use Task manager to check to see what was eating your CPU cycles prior to restarting? The only problem I run into with Firefox is with those sites that are designed for IE specifically. They will either not display correctly or not at all. \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of harry perry Sent: Sunday, September 13, 2009 3:22 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Login issues/Opera For quite some time I've had a problem with my computer. It would get so slow I had to reboot as much as 3 times in half an hour. I was running Firefox. I switched to Opera and it made all the difference in the world. The computer is running like it was knew and with Opera's "speed dial" option I bypassed all the password B.S. You should really try it . It speeds up your computer significantly. Harry                                                                             --- On Sun, 9/13/09, Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@...> wrote: From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@...> Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Y! Alert: Yahoo! Groups Blog - Login issues for Firefox users To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Date: Sunday, September 13, 2009, 2:40 AM They added an update to the blog, based on the comments they were getting... "UPDATE: In the comments below we've noticed that some of you are running into this issue with IE and Opera. If this is the case, please report it to Customer Care http://help. yahoo.com/ l/us/yahoo/ groups/original/ members/forms/ general.html and include your browser, your browser's version, and your operating system so we can better track down the issue." I haven't done this since I figure hundreds/thousands of others have already done so. I'm not sure why Yahoo Groups is trying to blame this on browsers, rather than admit it's their issue. Here's the top four comments out of 44. Glen Swift said, September 11, 2009 @ 11:21 pm Don't blame Firefox. I use Internet Explorer (and always have) and tonight I've had to log in at least eight separate times, for no good reason, though mainly when I'm trying to reply to a message or use the back button to return to the list of messages from the message I just finished reading. rik said, September 12, 2009 @ 3:24 am Firefox 2 on XP as well, seems more a Yahoo problem rather than browser Deborah S. said, September 12, 2009 @ 3:25 am I also use Intnet Explorer (and always have), but now I have this problem too. Mostly when switching between my e-gtroups, and with no good reason since I log in daily. And now, more than the log in problem.. Seems that I cannot reply to messages in my groups via the web page (which I have almost always done, I rarely reply via e-mail). When I try to reply, I get a notice that the message (number xxxx) cannot be retrieved. THis is very frustrating, this is NEW problem, and, again, it's not Firefox. I use Interntet Explorer and no other broweser. Hope you can solve this, soon. Brent said, September 12, 2009 @ 4:25 am I am having the same problem on IE8 and Chrome. I also had Yahoo Groups continually ask for my password on my iPhone. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com [mailto:AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com] On Behalf Of Steve Szabo Sent: Saturday, September 12, 2009 9:40 PM To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Y! Alert: Yahoo! Groups Blog - Login issues for Firefox users I have had no problems logging in with both Firefox 3.5.2 or, now, 3.5.3. On the other hand, my lady has had a problem logging in with one of the lists that she belongs to, but not with any of the lists she owns with 3.5.2, but she has not complained since 3.5.3 was released, though I do not know if she has upgraded to it. \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com [mailto:AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com] On Behalf Of Lenny V. aka GoldLenny Sent: Saturday, September 12, 2009 7:17 PM To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com Subject: [AquaticLife] Y! Alert: Yahoo! Groups Blog - Login issues for Firefox users AND IE8 USERS TOO.... at least there have been for me. I just figured it was one of Yahoo's typical server glitches that come and go. Read more below my sig. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: Yahoo! Alerts [mailto:alerts@yahoo- inc.com] Sent: Saturday, September 12, 2009 5:01 PM To: GoldLenny@gmail. com Subject: Y! Alert: Yahoo! Groups Blog Login issues for Firefox users (AND IE8 USERS TOO... AT LEAST FOR LENNY) http://www.ygroupsb log.com http://www.ygroupsb log.com/blog/ 2009/09/11/ login-issues- for-firefox- users/ Several of you have reported that when visiting your groups, you're repeatedly asked to enter your password in order for you to proceed. While this is the expected behavior if you haven't logged in two weeks, or, are attempting to add users to your group, this should not be happening when you're simply trying to access a group or post a message through the web. We are currently investigating this issue, but believe that users who recently upgraded to the newest version of Firefox (3.5.2 or 3.5.3) are impacted by this problem. Until the issue is resolved, we suggest using a different browser for the time-being (ex: Internet Explorer, Safari, or Opera). Or, you may participate in your groups by posting messages via email. We'll be sure to update you all here as soon as we have more information and/or the issue is resolved. Thanks for your patience! Melissa Daniels Yahoo! Community Manager ------------------------------------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the home page. Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com to receive the digest, which includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com for the No E-Mail option where you will still be able to read messages on the group and post replies. Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com to receive individual e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 43412	From: kuradi8	Date: 9/13/2009
Subject: Re: Login issues/Opera

Admittedly, I have only skimmed through a couple of the posts on this thread. It sounds like the problem is too much baggage. My guess is that you have too many unnecessary background tasks. Other baggage: Have you tried clearing your cache, clearing your history, tossing your cookies, running anti-spyware and anti-adware programs, or (potentially dangerous) running registry cleaner programs? How about running maintenance and utility programs such as a DEFRAG or others? (Windows has many built-in "performance enhancing" programs.) Ask the computer gurus about how and why to do those things. I only know "of" them, not "about" them -- and do them on the advice of and with help of my more computer literate buddies. As for constant re-booting, if it's not a software issue, your hard drive could be starting to fail. Back up all your important stuff ASAP (pictures, financial info, documents and correspondence, etc) onto external media and poke around Windows Help for the "check disk" facility. Then plan ahead to get a new drive (or whole new computer) and move your data over to the new one BEFORE the old one fails. Off and running, ~Kai --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Steve Szabo" <steve@...> wrote: > > Harry, > > You do not give enough information here to make a valid conclusion. I've not yet seen a machine where Firefox was a problem in and of itself. I have seen certain add-ins give problems in certain configurations, but not across the board. There were a few versions that suffered from memory leaks, but that seems to have been resolved in the last few versions released. This, however, does not seem to be your problem since you say you have had to reboot several times within a half hour span. > > Did you use Task manager to check to see what was eating your CPU cycles prior to restarting? > > The only problem I run into with Firefox is with those sites that are designed for IE specifically. They will either not display correctly or not at all. > > \\Steve// > > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of harry perry > Sent: Sunday, September 13, 2009 3:22 AM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Login issues/Opera > > For quite some time I've had a problem with my computer. It would get so slow I had to reboot as much as 3 times in half an hour. I was running Firefox. I switched to Opera and it made all the difference in the world. The computer is running like it was knew and with Opera's "speed dial" option I bypassed all the password B.S. You should really try it . It speeds up your computer significantly. > Harry > > --- On Sun, 9/13/09, Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@...> wrote: > > From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@...> > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Y! Alert: Yahoo! Groups Blog - Login issues for Firefox users > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Date: Sunday, September 13, 2009, 2:40 AM > > They added an update to the blog, based on the comments they were getting... > > "UPDATE: In the comments below we've noticed that some of you are running > into this issue with IE and Opera. If this is the case, please report it to > > Customer Care > http://help. yahoo.com/ l/us/yahoo/ groups/original/ members/forms/ general.html > and include your browser, your browser's version, and your operating system > so we can better track down the issue." > > I haven't done this since I figure hundreds/thousands of others have already > done so. > > I'm not sure why Yahoo Groups is trying to blame this on browsers, rather > than admit it's their issue. Here's the top four comments out of 44. > > Glen Swift said, > September 11, 2009 @ 11:21 pm > > Don't blame Firefox. I use Internet Explorer (and always have) and tonight > I've had to log in at least eight separate times, for no good reason, though > mainly when I'm trying to reply to a message or use the back button to > return to the list of messages from the message I just finished reading. > > rik said, > September 12, 2009 @ 3:24 am > > Firefox 2 on XP as well, seems more a Yahoo problem rather than browser > > Deborah S. said, > September 12, 2009 @ 3:25 am > > I also use Intnet Explorer (and always have), but now I have this problem > too. Mostly when switching between my e-gtroups, and with no good reason > since I log in daily. And now, more than the log in problem.. Seems that I > cannot reply to messages in my groups via the web page (which I have almost > always done, I rarely reply via e-mail). When I try to reply, I get a notice > that the message (number xxxx) cannot be retrieved. THis is very > frustrating, this is NEW problem, and, again, it's not Firefox. I use > Interntet Explorer and no other broweser. Hope you can solve this, soon. > > Brent said, > September 12, 2009 @ 4:25 am > > I am having the same problem on IE8 and Chrome. I also had Yahoo Groups > continually ask for my password on my iPhone. > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com > (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right > side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com [mailto:AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com] On > Behalf Of Steve Szabo > Sent: Saturday, September 12, 2009 9:40 PM > To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Y! Alert: Yahoo! Groups Blog - Login issues for > > Firefox users > I have had no problems logging in with both Firefox 3.5.2 or, now, 3.5.3. On > the other hand, my lady has had a problem logging in with one of the lists > that she belongs to, but not with any of the lists she owns with 3.5.2, but > she has not complained since 3.5.3 was released, though I do not know if she > has upgraded to it. > > \\Steve// > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com [mailto:AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com] > On Behalf Of Lenny V. aka GoldLenny > Sent: Saturday, September 12, 2009 7:17 PM > To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com > Subject: [AquaticLife] Y! Alert: Yahoo! Groups Blog - Login issues for > > Firefox users > AND IE8 USERS TOO.... at least there have been for me. I just figured it > was one of Yahoo's typical server glitches that come and go. Read more > below my sig. > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com (Links to any articles referenced > in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and > also under Archives by Year, > Month) > > -----Original Message----- > From: Yahoo! Alerts [mailto:alerts@yahoo- inc.com] > Sent: Saturday, September 12, 2009 5:01 PM > To: GoldLenny@gmail. com > Subject: Y! Alert: Yahoo! Groups Blog > > Login issues for Firefox users (AND IE8 USERS TOO... AT LEAST FOR LENNY) > http://www.ygroupsb log.com > http://www.ygroupsb log.com/blog/ 2009/09/11/ login-issues- for-firefox- users/ > Several of you have reported that when visiting your groups, you're > repeatedly asked to enter your password in order for you to proceed. > While > this is the expected behavior if you haven't logged in two weeks, or, > are > attempting to add users to your group, this should not be happening when > you're simply trying to access a group or post a message through the > web. We > are currently investigating this issue, but believe that users who > recently > upgraded to the newest version of Firefox (3.5.2 or 3.5.3) are impacted > by > this problem. Until the issue is resolved, we suggest using a different > browser for the time-being (ex: Internet Explorer, Safari, or Opera). > Or, > you may participate in your groups by posting messages via email. We'll > be > sure to update you all here as soon as we have more information and/or > the > issue is resolved. Thanks for your patience! > > Melissa Daniels > Yahoo! Community Manager >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 43413	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 9/13/2009
Subject: Re: [Bulk] RE: [AquaticLife] Y! Alert: Yahoo! Groups Blog - Login is

You obviously did NOT read the entire thread. Scroll down to the bottom and read the previous posts. I forwarded a Yahoo Groups Blog article, which I get as an "Alert", to let folks know what may be happening to them. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Dora Smith Sent: Sunday, September 13, 2009 8:51 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [Bulk] RE: [AquaticLife] Y! Alert: Yahoo! Groups Blog - Login issues for Firefox users Logging into what? It took me the longest time to figure out what you are talking about. I use firefox. I'll be glad to give it a try. Yours, Dora Smith Austin, TX tiggernut24@... ----- Original Message ----- From: "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@...> To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Sunday, September 13, 2009 1:40 AM Subject: [Bulk] RE: [AquaticLife] Y! Alert: Yahoo! Groups Blog - Login issues for Firefox users They added an update to the blog, based on the comments they were getting... "UPDATE: In the comments below we've noticed that some of you are running into this issue with IE and Opera. If this is the case, please report it to Customer Care http://help.yahoo.com/l/us/yahoo/groups/original/members/forms/general.html and include your browser, your browser's version, and your operating system so we can better track down the issue." I haven't done this since I figure hundreds/thousands of others have already done so. I'm not sure why Yahoo Groups is trying to blame this on browsers, rather than admit it's their issue. Here's the top four comments out of 44. Glen Swift said, September 11, 2009 @ 11:21 pm Don't blame Firefox. I use Internet Explorer (and always have) and tonight I've had to log in at least eight separate times, for no good reason, though mainly when I'm trying to reply to a message or use the back button to return to the list of messages from the message I just finished reading. rik said, September 12, 2009 @ 3:24 am Firefox 2 on XP as well, seems more a Yahoo problem rather than browser Deborah S. said, September 12, 2009 @ 3:25 am I also use Intnet Explorer (and always have), but now I have this problem too. Mostly when switching between my e-gtroups, and with no good reason since I log in daily. And now, more than the log in problem.. Seems that I cannot reply to messages in my groups via the web page (which I have almost always done, I rarely reply via e-mail). When I try to reply, I get a notice that the message (number xxxx) cannot be retrieved. THis is very frustrating, this is NEW problem, and, again, it's not Firefox. I use Interntet Explorer and no other broweser. Hope you can solve this, soon. Brent said, September 12, 2009 @ 4:25 am I am having the same problem on IE8 and Chrome. I also had Yahoo Groups continually ask for my password on my iPhone. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Steve Szabo Sent: Saturday, September 12, 2009 9:40 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Y! Alert: Yahoo! Groups Blog - Login issues for Firefox users I have had no problems logging in with both Firefox 3.5.2 or, now, 3.5.3. On the other hand, my lady has had a problem logging in with one of the lists that she belongs to, but not with any of the lists she owns with 3.5.2, but she has not complained since 3.5.3 was released, though I do not know if she has upgraded to it. \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Lenny V. aka GoldLenny Sent: Saturday, September 12, 2009 7:17 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Y! Alert: Yahoo! Groups Blog - Login issues for Firefox users AND IE8 USERS TOO.... at least there have been for me. I just figured it was one of Yahoo's typical server glitches that come and go. Read more below my sig. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: Yahoo! Alerts [mailto:alerts@...] Sent: Saturday, September 12, 2009 5:01 PM To: GoldLenny@... Subject: Y! Alert: Yahoo! Groups Blog Login issues for Firefox users (AND IE8 USERS TOO... AT LEAST FOR LENNY) http://www.ygroupsblog.com http://www.ygroupsblog.com/blog/2009/09/11/login-issues-for-firefox-users/ Several of you have reported that when visiting your groups, you're repeatedly asked to enter your password in order for you to proceed. While this is the expected behavior if you haven't logged in two weeks, or, are attempting to add users to your group, this should not be happening when you're simply trying to access a group or post a message through the web. We are currently investigating this issue, but believe that users who recently upgraded to the newest version of Firefox (3.5.2 or 3.5.3) are impacted by this problem. Until the issue is resolved, we suggest using a different browser for the time-being (ex: Internet Explorer, Safari, or Opera). Or, you may participate in your groups by posting messages via email. We'll be sure to update you all here as soon as we have more information and/or the issue is resolved. Thanks for your patience! Melissa Daniels Yahoo! Community Manager

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 43414	From: fishdudeut	Date: 9/13/2009
Subject: Molly and Salt.

I was reading an article in Aquarium USA 2010 Annual reading Molly. The Magnificent Molly. On page 66 it stated "They need hard alkaline water" Then is also states "The one thing they do NOT require is Salt". Then I read on line that they need salt in their water. Then on http://fish.mongabay.com/poeciliidae.htm (Mongabay) that they are compatible with cory cat fish, but unless I'm reading it work cory's will do better at a little cooler temp as well has a more neutral PH and they would prefer NO salt in there tank. So I guess my question is are the two fish compatible? My water is hard like 19 dh and my ph runs 7.4 / 7.8. So will Cory do ok in the water? Are they ok with mollies? From what I see Mollies will be fine in my water. If I keep them should I add salt to the tank? If cory's will note make it with the salt or in the water condition I have what are some other fish that will make it in the molly tank.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 43415	From: harry perry	Date: 9/13/2009
Subject: Re: Login issues/Opera/Lenny

If a hacker decides to go after anything they certainly can. My computer issue was when I was in Yahoo mail. Outside of Yahoo it worked fine. I think it was a problem with Firefox and Yahoo. With speed dial I have it set so it pops up when I open my computer. I click on my mail and it's there. My computer doesn't hang up anymore with Opera. I like it. Harry --- On Sun, 9/13/09, Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@...> wrote: From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@...> Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Login issues/Opera To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Date: Sunday, September 13, 2009, 10:05 AM   I've never used Opera but from reading about the Speed Dial thing, it just seems like something that I do with my Favorites folders in IE. At the very top of my Favorites list are the sites I visit often. I do this by "Renaming" them and putting a 0- in front of their names so that they all stay at the top when sorted. I also use LOTS of sub-folders to sort my HUGE assortment of links and keep them organized so I can find them when needed. While reading about Opera, I did see several "security" issue articles about Opera so while it is heralded as being "the safest" by some, if a hacker feels like spending time going after Opera, they certainly can. http://blogs. zdnet.com/ security/ ?p=2093&tag= rbxccnbzd1 http://blogs. zdnet.com/ security/ ?p=2012 Many of these same articles do say that Opera is faster than other web-browsers and maybe with an under-resourced computer, this could help out but like \\Steve// says, IE8, FF nor any other browser should cause a computer to have to be rebooted unless there are other underlying reasons. I know that Adobe Flash Ads do cause browsers to freeze up sometimes but then it's just a matter of closing the browser window and reopening it to fix that problem. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com [mailto:AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com] On Behalf Of Steve Szabo Sent: Sunday, September 13, 2009 8:35 AM To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Login issues/Opera Harry, You do not give enough information here to make a valid conclusion. I've not yet seen a machine where Firefox was a problem in and of itself. I have seen certain add-ins give problems in certain configurations, but not across the board. There were a few versions that suffered from memory leaks, but that seems to have been resolved in the last few versions released. This, however, does not seem to be your problem since you say you have had to reboot several times within a half hour span. Did you use Task manager to check to see what was eating your CPU cycles prior to restarting? The only problem I run into with Firefox is with those sites that are designed for IE specifically. They will either not display correctly or not at all. \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com [mailto:AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com] On Behalf Of harry perry Sent: Sunday, September 13, 2009 3:22 AM To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Login issues/Opera For quite some time I've had a problem with my computer. It would get so slow I had to reboot as much as 3 times in half an hour. I was running Firefox. I switched to Opera and it made all the difference in the world. The computer is running like it was knew and with Opera's "speed dial" option I bypassed all the password B.S. You should really try it . It speeds up your computer significantly. Harry                                                                             --- On Sun, 9/13/09, Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@gmail. com> wrote: From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@gmail. com> Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Y! Alert: Yahoo! Groups Blog - Login issues for Firefox users To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com Date: Sunday, September 13, 2009, 2:40 AM They added an update to the blog, based on the comments they were getting... "UPDATE: In the comments below we've noticed that some of you are running into this issue with IE and Opera. If this is the case, please report it to Customer Care http://help. yahoo.com/ l/us/yahoo/ groups/original/ members/forms/ general.html and include your browser, your browser's version, and your operating system so we can better track down the issue." I haven't done this since I figure hundreds/thousands of others have already done so. I'm not sure why Yahoo Groups is trying to blame this on browsers, rather than admit it's their issue. Here's the top four comments out of 44. Glen Swift said, September 11, 2009 @ 11:21 pm Don't blame Firefox. I use Internet Explorer (and always have) and tonight I've had to log in at least eight separate times, for no good reason, though mainly when I'm trying to reply to a message or use the back button to return to the list of messages from the message I just finished reading. rik said, September 12, 2009 @ 3:24 am Firefox 2 on XP as well, seems more a Yahoo problem rather than browser Deborah S. said, September 12, 2009 @ 3:25 am I also use Intnet Explorer (and always have), but now I have this problem too. Mostly when switching between my e-gtroups, and with no good reason since I log in daily. And now, more than the log in problem.. Seems that I cannot reply to messages in my groups via the web page (which I have almost always done, I rarely reply via e-mail). When I try to reply, I get a notice that the message (number xxxx) cannot be retrieved. THis is very frustrating, this is NEW problem, and, again, it's not Firefox. I use Interntet Explorer and no other broweser. Hope you can solve this, soon. Brent said, September 12, 2009 @ 4:25 am I am having the same problem on IE8 and Chrome. I also had Yahoo Groups continually ask for my password on my iPhone. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com [mailto:AquaticLife @ yahoogroups. com] On Behalf Of Steve Szabo Sent: Saturday, September 12, 2009 9:40 PM To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Y! Alert: Yahoo! Groups Blog - Login issues for Firefox users I have had no problems logging in with both Firefox 3.5.2 or, now, 3.5.3. On the other hand, my lady has had a problem logging in with one of the lists that she belongs to, but not with any of the lists she owns with 3.5.2, but she has not complained since 3.5.3 was released, though I do not know if she has upgraded to it. \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com [mailto:AquaticLife @ yahoogroups. com] On Behalf Of Lenny V. aka GoldLenny Sent: Saturday, September 12, 2009 7:17 PM To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com Subject: [AquaticLife] Y! Alert: Yahoo! Groups Blog - Login issues for Firefox users AND IE8 USERS TOO.... at least there have been for me. I just figured it was one of Yahoo's typical server glitches that come and go. Read more below my sig. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: Yahoo! Alerts [mailto:alerts@ yahoo- inc.com] Sent: Saturday, September 12, 2009 5:01 PM To: GoldLenny@gmail. com Subject: Y! Alert: Yahoo! Groups Blog Login issues for Firefox users (AND IE8 USERS TOO... AT LEAST FOR LENNY) http://www.ygroupsb log.com http://www.ygroupsb log.com/blog/ 2009/09/11/ login-issues- for-firefox- users/ Several of you have reported that when visiting your groups, you're repeatedly asked to enter your password in order for you to proceed. While this is the expected behavior if you haven't logged in two weeks, or, are attempting to add users to your group, this should not be happening when you're simply trying to access a group or post a message through the web. We are currently investigating this issue, but believe that users who recently upgraded to the newest version of Firefox (3.5.2 or 3.5.3) are impacted by this problem. Until the issue is resolved, we suggest using a different browser for the time-being (ex: Internet Explorer, Safari, or Opera). Or, you may participate in your groups by posting messages via email. We'll be sure to update you all here as soon as we have more information and/or the issue is resolved. Thanks for your patience! Melissa Daniels Yahoo! Community Manager ------------ --------- --------- ------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the home page. Or e-mail aquaticlife- digest@yahoogrou ps.com to receive the digest, which includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email Or email aquaticlife- nomail@yahoogrou ps.com for the No E-Mail option where you will still be able to read messages on the group and post replies. Or email aquaticlife- normal@yahoogrou ps.com to receive individual e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 43416	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 9/13/2009
Subject: Re: Molly and Salt.

I guess when Mongabay says a certain group of fish is usually compatible may not mean all fish within that group are compatible. There are many types of fish in the Corydoras genus so you would have to look at the Mongabay profiles for each species to see if their water parameters are similar enough. I'm sure there are many Corydoras species that will do fine in your water where other's may not like the hardness even though the pH might be OK for them. As far as the salt thing, in the "old days" (there's that "old days" reference again.. lol), salt was used by so many people in freshwater tanks, some thinking it would prevent disease, others because someone told them to, etc., it really is overused in freshwater tanks. At low levels, it really does nothing as far as disease or parasite treatment. Only a pinch per 10G is needed for Cycling With Fish to protect again nitrite poisoning. If fish are sick and salt is a treatment option, then it would have to be raised to at least 0.1% and as much as 0.3% before it would have any therapeutic/medicinal benefits. Yes, most livebearers like harder water and many of them live in tidal estuaries in the wild so they are exposed to brackish type water parameters on a regular basis, so they can "tolerate" salt better and the salt will make the water a little harder, which they prefer, but really, the thing that should be used, if someone wanted to make their water harder for certain types of fish, would be a Marine Salt mix, not regular table salt or the rip-off "aquarium salt" that is sold that is the same thing as regular table salt at about 10 times the price. Marine Salt is only around 30-40% NaCl (regular salt), if I recall correctly, with the rest of it being made up of other hardening chemical compounds (calcium, magnesium, etc.) that occur naturally in sea water. I just read the Mongabay profile and it does NOT say "they NEED salt" but rather... "A 0.05% to 0.15% addition of salt CAN be used (but) is NOT required" (that's a typo on their page for the percentage, which they need to fix, but at least the directions of how much to add is accurate) Here's the snip from their page on livebearers.... "WATER : pH 7.0-8.5 (7.6), 12-30 dH (20), 70-82°F (21-28°C). A 0.5-1.5% addition of salt can be used, although this is not required. This can be accomplished by adding 4-11 tsp. of salt to every 10 gallons (5-15 g/10 L)." Your water is fine for livebearers like Mollys, Guppies and Swordtails and most other fish. The water will naturally get a little softer and the pH will get lower in the tank as the ecology of the tank starts to utilize many of the nutrients in the water which makes it harder and the decaying detritus puts out carbonic acid and life forms put out CO2 which will lower the pH. This is another reason we have to do PWC's on a regular basis, to make sure the ecology doesn't lower the pH and other water parameters so much that it's bad for the fish. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of fishdudeut Sent: Sunday, September 13, 2009 10:46 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Molly and Salt. I was reading an article in Aquarium USA 2010 Annual reading Molly. The Magnificent Molly. On page 66 it stated "They need hard alkaline water" Then is also states "The one thing they do NOT require is Salt". Then I read on line that they need salt in their water. Then on http://fish.mongabay.com/poeciliidae.htm (Mongabay) that they are compatible with cory cat fish, but unless I'm reading it work cory's will do better at a little cooler temp as well has a more neutral PH and they would prefer NO salt in there tank. So I guess my question is are the two fish compatible? My water is hard like 19 dh and my ph runs 7.4 / 7.8. So will Cory do ok in the water? Are they ok with mollies? From what I see Mollies will be fine in my water. If I keep them should I add salt to the tank? If cory's will note make it with the salt or in the water condition I have what are some other fish that will make it in the molly tank.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 43417	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 9/13/2009
Subject: Re: Molly and Salt.

Mollies can be found in pure freshwater to pure marine water. This is variable by species in that some will prefer the fresh water, or slightly brackish, while others will prefer the brackish to marine waters. The one thing that holds true, though, is the need for relatively hard water. We do run into a bit of a conundrum with the mollies that are usually found in stores. Many of them are hybrids between two or three species, especially the blacks. Many of those are raised and bred in fresh water only. Therefore, keeping mollies in fresh water will be fine. Just ensure they have a certain degree of hardness to the water. If your water is not hard, salt is a quick, easy way to introduce hardness, particularly if it is a marine salt mix. This is a good interim method until you can use another method to raise the hardness of your water, such as a dolomite mix for your substrate or in your filter, or oyster shell, or a cuttlebone in your filter. How well will a cory do in this situation? Most will do well in water that has a dH of less than 20. Some can stand higher dH levels naturally, and most would probably adjust to that level. If your water has a dH of at least 10, and no more than 20, the mollies and corys should do well together. \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of fishdudeut Sent: Sunday, September 13, 2009 11:46 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Molly and Salt. I was reading an article in Aquarium USA 2010 Annual reading Molly. The Magnificent Molly. On page 66 it stated "They need hard alkaline water" Then is also states "The one thing they do NOT require is Salt". Then I read on line that they need salt in their water. Then on http://fish.mongabay.com/poeciliidae.htm (Mongabay) that they are compatible with cory cat fish, but unless I'm reading it work cory's will do better at a little cooler temp as well has a more neutral PH and they would prefer NO salt in there tank. So I guess my question is are the two fish compatible? My water is hard like 19 dh and my ph runs 7.4 / 7.8. So will Cory do ok in the water? Are they ok with mollies? From what I see Mollies will be fine in my water. If I keep them should I add salt to the tank? If cory's will note make it with the salt or in the water condition I have what are some other fish that will make it in the molly tank. ------------------------------------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the home page. Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com to receive the digest, which includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com for the No E-Mail option where you will still be able to read messages on the group and post replies. Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com to receive individual e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 43418	From: harry perry	Date: 9/13/2009
Subject: Re: Login issues/Opera

Did you use Task manager to check to see what was eating your CPU cycles prior to restarting? Yes it was Firefox eating it up. It was the latest edition of Firefox but in combination with Yahoo mail it was really slow. I found a significantly different situation with Opera.  At first I hated the speed dial option but when I got used to it I found I could go directly from my desktop to any site including Yahoo mail without the passwords hassel.  My wife and I are the only ones using this computer so we don't need all the password protection. Harry --- On Sun, 9/13/09, Steve Szabo <steve@...> wrote: From: Steve Szabo <steve@...> Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Login issues/Opera To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Date: Sunday, September 13, 2009, 9:34 AM   Harry, You do not give enough information here to make a valid conclusion. I've not yet seen a machine where Firefox was a problem in and of itself. I have seen certain add-ins give problems in certain configurations, but not across the board. There were a few versions that suffered from memory leaks, but that seems to have been resolved in the last few versions released. This, however, does not seem to be your problem since you say you have had to reboot several times within a half hour span. Did you use Task manager to check to see what was eating your CPU cycles prior to restarting? The only problem I run into with Firefox is with those sites that are designed for IE specifically. They will either not display correctly or not at all. \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com [mailto:AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com] On Behalf Of harry perry Sent: Sunday, September 13, 2009 3:22 AM To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Login issues/Opera For quite some time I've had a problem with my computer. It would get so slow I had to reboot as much as 3 times in half an hour. I was running Firefox. I switched to Opera and it made all the difference in the world. The computer is running like it was knew and with Opera's "speed dial" option I bypassed all the password B.S. You should really try it . It speeds up your computer significantly. Harry                                                                             --- On Sun, 9/13/09, Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@gmail. com> wrote: From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@gmail. com> Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Y! Alert: Yahoo! Groups Blog - Login issues for Firefox users To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com Date: Sunday, September 13, 2009, 2:40 AM They added an update to the blog, based on the comments they were getting... "UPDATE: In the comments below we've noticed that some of you are running into this issue with IE and Opera. If this is the case, please report it to Customer Care http://help. yahoo.com/ l/us/yahoo/ groups/original/ members/forms/ general.html and include your browser, your browser's version, and your operating system so we can better track down the issue." I haven't done this since I figure hundreds/thousands of others have already done so. I'm not sure why Yahoo Groups is trying to blame this on browsers, rather than admit it's their issue. Here's the top four comments out of 44. Glen Swift said, September 11, 2009 @ 11:21 pm Don't blame Firefox. I use Internet Explorer (and always have) and tonight I've had to log in at least eight separate times, for no good reason, though mainly when I'm trying to reply to a message or use the back button to return to the list of messages from the message I just finished reading. rik said, September 12, 2009 @ 3:24 am Firefox 2 on XP as well, seems more a Yahoo problem rather than browser Deborah S. said, September 12, 2009 @ 3:25 am I also use Intnet Explorer (and always have), but now I have this problem too. Mostly when switching between my e-gtroups, and with no good reason since I log in daily. And now, more than the log in problem.. Seems that I cannot reply to messages in my groups via the web page (which I have almost always done, I rarely reply via e-mail). When I try to reply, I get a notice that the message (number xxxx) cannot be retrieved. THis is very frustrating, this is NEW problem, and, again, it's not Firefox. I use Interntet Explorer and no other broweser. Hope you can solve this, soon. Brent said, September 12, 2009 @ 4:25 am I am having the same problem on IE8 and Chrome. I also had Yahoo Groups continually ask for my password on my iPhone. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com [mailto:AquaticLife @ yahoogroups. com] On Behalf Of Steve Szabo Sent: Saturday, September 12, 2009 9:40 PM To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Y! Alert: Yahoo! Groups Blog - Login issues for Firefox users I have had no problems logging in with both Firefox 3.5.2 or, now, 3.5.3. On the other hand, my lady has had a problem logging in with one of the lists that she belongs to, but not with any of the lists she owns with 3.5.2, but she has not complained since 3.5.3 was released, though I do not know if she has upgraded to it. \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com [mailto:AquaticLife @ yahoogroups. com] On Behalf Of Lenny V. aka GoldLenny Sent: Saturday, September 12, 2009 7:17 PM To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com Subject: [AquaticLife] Y! Alert: Yahoo! Groups Blog - Login issues for Firefox users AND IE8 USERS TOO.... at least there have been for me. I just figured it was one of Yahoo's typical server glitches that come and go. Read more below my sig. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: Yahoo! Alerts [mailto:alerts@ yahoo- inc.com] Sent: Saturday, September 12, 2009 5:01 PM To: GoldLenny@gmail. com Subject: Y! Alert: Yahoo! Groups Blog Login issues for Firefox users (AND IE8 USERS TOO... AT LEAST FOR LENNY) http://www.ygroupsb log.com http://www.ygroupsb log.com/blog/ 2009/09/11/ login-issues- for-firefox- users/ Several of you have reported that when visiting your groups, you're repeatedly asked to enter your password in order for you to proceed. While this is the expected behavior if you haven't logged in two weeks, or, are attempting to add users to your group, this should not be happening when you're simply trying to access a group or post a message through the web. We are currently investigating this issue, but believe that users who recently upgraded to the newest version of Firefox (3.5.2 or 3.5.3) are impacted by this problem. Until the issue is resolved, we suggest using a different browser for the time-being (ex: Internet Explorer, Safari, or Opera). Or, you may participate in your groups by posting messages via email. We'll be sure to update you all here as soon as we have more information and/or the issue is resolved. Thanks for your patience! Melissa Daniels Yahoo! Community Manager [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 43419	From: harry perry	Date: 9/13/2009
Subject: Re: Login issues/Opera/Lenny

are still amazed they can do all of this "Internet stuff" without having to   pay anything or even be connected to anything. Lenny, you have access to the Internet for free?. How did you do that?. Harry  --- On Sun, 9/13/09, Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@...> wrote: From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@...> Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Login issues/Opera To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Date: Sunday, September 13, 2009, 4:30 AM   My vast experience with computer users, although not as vast as \\Steve's// and maybe others, has shown that simply changing browsers does not usually solve computer problems. I'm glad it's working in your case but for the dozens of people that I've come across who were told to switch from IE to FF or Opera or Chrome, etc., that simply does not solve the problem since the problem is generally a PICNIC problem... not a computer problem. BTW, PICNIC means Problem In Chair, Not In Computer. In your case, I believe your computer is older so you do have to pick and choose which software you run as some will certainly use up more than others. I was just reading a post in one of the computer tech groups I subscribe to and he showed that FireFox was using twice as much of his computer's resources than IE8. I find that IE8 is very reliable to use, even on my oldest computer with only 384MB of RAM and a 16GB Hard Drive... to give folks an idea of how old it is. It actually only had 256MB of RAM but I had an extra 128MB stick that matched so I threw it in. I know, I should have added a matching 256MB stick but I didn't want to spend any money on this computer. That extra 128MB RAM stick made it noticeably faster for my elderly neighbor who uses that computer. I also have them running off of my wireless network and they are still amazed they can do all of this "internet stuff" without having to pay anything or even be connected to anything. LOL I even having them watching missed TV shows on HULU now... "turning their brains into mush, because we're aliens and that's how we roll!" They're thinking about turning off their cable to save some money now... I guess that beats eating cat food. LOL I've seen people (friends, co-workers, associates, etc.) constantly getting hit with malware, spyware, viruses, etc., and someone might tell them "Use FireFox, it's safer than IE" or some other rubbish like that, so the people switch and continue to have problems simply because they practice BAD surfing habits, refuse to learn basic computer security, etc. It's analogous to telling someone, "You need stronger locks on your doors" without telling them to close and lock their Windows (pun intended). ;-) The same thing happens with the Mac commercials and simply put, if the user does not practice basic security, there is nothing anyone can do to protect them. Certainly, hackers spend most of their time going after Microsoft, Windows, IE, etc., since they are the Goliath but ALL of those other computer operating systems, browsers, software, etc. are just and possibly even more vulnerable. What the supporters of these other options do not realize is that every time they promote their choice, they are making their choice more visible to hackers. FireFox and Apple are both seeing this. As they increase their market share, they are also under more and more attacks by hackers. Yes, you can use a more obscure browser like Opera or Chrome, or a more obscure computer OS like Mac's have, and you may feel less at risk, simply because the hackers may not spend as much time going after those browsers and OS, but you ARE NOT SAFE. You still have to practice safe surfing and have adequate computer security, meaning a good firewall (not the Windows firewall), good anti-virus and a couple of good anti-malware/ spyware programs. All of these are available for FREE so there simply is NO REASON for everyone to not have them. Folks that choose to surf the net unprotected WILL get infected and infested and then their computers are used as zombies in a bot-net to create even more havoc for the rest of us. Even Apple is shipping their latest OS, Snow Leopard, with built in security software as they are seeing themselves under more and more web-based attacks. Like with irresponsible people having babies, I wish the Guv'ment would pass a law that says you have to be trained and licensed to have babies and/or using a computer on the net, instead of wasting our tax dollars on all the other crap that the Guv'ment does. Maybe ACORN could offer these services with more Guv'ment Grants... but I think they're too busy setting folks up with brothels right now. LOL Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com [mailto:AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com] On Behalf Of harry perry Sent: Sunday, September 13, 2009 2:22 AM To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Login issues/Opera For quite some time I've had a problem with my computer. It would get so slow I had to reboot as much as 3 times in half an hour. I was running Firefox. I switched to Opera and it made all the difference in the world. The computer is running like it was knew and with Opera's "speed dial" option I bypassed all the password B.S. You should really try it . It speeds up your computer significantly. Harry                                                                             --- On Sun, 9/13/09, Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@gmail. com> wrote: From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@gmail. com> Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Y! Alert: Yahoo! Groups Blog - Login issues for Firefox users To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com Date: Sunday, September 13, 2009, 2:40 AM They added an update to the blog, based on the comments they were getting... "UPDATE: In the comments below we've noticed that some of you are running into this issue with IE and Opera. If this is the case, please report it to Customer Care http://help. yahoo.com/ l/us/yahoo/ groups/original/ members/forms/ general.html and include your browser, your browser's version, and your operating system so we can better track down the issue." I haven't done this since I figure hundreds/thousands of others have already done so. I'm not sure why Yahoo Groups is trying to blame this on browsers, rather than admit it's their issue. Here's the top four comments out of 44. Glen Swift said, September 11, 2009 @ 11:21 pm Don't blame Firefox. I use Internet Explorer (and always have) and tonight I've had to log in at least eight separate times, for no good reason, though mainly when I'm trying to reply to a message or use the back button to return to the list of messages from the message I just finished reading. rik said, September 12, 2009 @ 3:24 am Firefox 2 on XP as well, seems more a Yahoo problem rather than browser Deborah S. said, September 12, 2009 @ 3:25 am I also use Intnet Explorer (and always have), but now I have this problem too. Mostly when switching between my e-gtroups, and with no good reason since I log in daily. And now, more than the log in problem.. Seems that I cannot reply to messages in my groups via the web page (which I have almost always done, I rarely reply via e-mail). When I try to reply, I get a notice that the message (number xxxx) cannot be retrieved. THis is very frustrating, this is NEW problem, and, again, it's not Firefox. I use Interntet Explorer and no other broweser. Hope you can solve this, soon. Brent said, September 12, 2009 @ 4:25 am I am having the same problem on IE8 and Chrome. I also had Yahoo Groups continually ask for my password on my iPhone. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com [mailto:AquaticLife @ yahoogroups. com] On Behalf Of Steve Szabo Sent: Saturday, September 12, 2009 9:40 PM To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Y! Alert: Yahoo! Groups Blog - Login issues for Firefox users I have had no problems logging in with both Firefox 3.5.2 or, now, 3.5.3. On the other hand, my lady has had a problem logging in with one of the lists that she belongs to, but not with any of the lists she owns with 3.5.2, but she has not complained since 3.5.3 was released, though I do not know if she has upgraded to it. \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com [mailto:AquaticLife @ yahoogroups. com] On Behalf Of Lenny V. aka GoldLenny Sent: Saturday, September 12, 2009 7:17 PM To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com Subject: [AquaticLife] Y! Alert: Yahoo! Groups Blog - Login issues for Firefox users AND IE8 USERS TOO.... at least there have been for me. I just figured it was one of Yahoo's typical server glitches that come and go. Read more below my sig. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: Yahoo! Alerts [mailto:alerts@ yahoo- inc.com] Sent: Saturday, September 12, 2009 5:01 PM To: GoldLenny@gmail. com Subject: Y! Alert: Yahoo! Groups Blog Login issues for Firefox users (AND IE8 USERS TOO... AT LEAST FOR LENNY) http://www.ygroupsb log.com http://www.ygroupsb log.com/blog/ 2009/09/11/ login-issues- for-firefox- users/ Several of you have reported that when visiting your groups, you're repeatedly asked to enter your password in order for you to proceed. While this is the expected behavior if you haven't logged in two weeks, or, are attempting to add users to your group, this should not be happening when you're simply trying to access a group or post a message through the web. We are currently investigating this issue, but believe that users who recently upgraded to the newest version of Firefox (3.5.2 or 3.5.3) are impacted by this problem. Until the issue is resolved, we suggest using a different browser for the time-being (ex: Internet Explorer, Safari, or Opera). Or, you may participate in your groups by posting messages via email. We'll be sure to update you all here as soon as we have more information and/or the issue is resolved. Thanks for your patience! Melissa Daniels Yahoo! Community Manager [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 43420	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 9/13/2009
Subject: Re: Login issues/Opera/Lenny

No. I pay for my internet but have a wireless router so the signal travels to a couple of my neighbors homes and set them up with a WPA security key, so they can log into my wireless internet signal, so my neighbor whom I am letting use one of my old computers with a USB wireless modem can pick up my wireless router signal and access the internet for free. I only pay $19.95 a month for DSL service so I don't worry about collecting $5.00 from each of the ones that I let use my service. On a side note, I bet there are still some dial-up services that are free, although there will likely be banner ads that show up on every webpage, besides the other ads that show up. I know K-Mart had this service called BlueLight.com years ago and NetZero also had this service, thus their name, NetZero. I know one of my neighbors told me a year or so ago that they still used the free NetZero dial-up service. I don't know if I would ever want to go back to dial-up service. My DSL service is adequate for me since I do not download a music or movies, although I do watch them on HULU, YouTube Movies, etc. I just press the pause button and let the video load up for a little while before playing so there is no lag when I start watching the program. Cox cable is now offering cable internet for $19.95 a month with their digital cable service but I don't want to pay the extra money for digital cable so I'll stay with my DSL for now. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of harry perry Sent: Sunday, September 13, 2009 1:56 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Login issues/Opera/Lenny are still amazed they can do all of this "Internet stuff" without having to   pay anything or even be connected to anything. Lenny, you have access to the Internet for free?. How did you do that?. Harry  --- On Sun, 9/13/09, Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@...> wrote: From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@...> Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Login issues/Opera To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Date: Sunday, September 13, 2009, 4:30 AM My vast experience with computer users, although not as vast as \\Steve's// and maybe others, has shown that simply changing browsers does not usually solve computer problems. I'm glad it's working in your case but for the dozens of people that I've come across who were told to switch from IE to FF or Opera or Chrome, etc., that simply does not solve the problem since the problem is generally a PICNIC problem... not a computer problem. BTW, PICNIC means Problem In Chair, Not In Computer. In your case, I believe your computer is older so you do have to pick and choose which software you run as some will certainly use up more than others. I was just reading a post in one of the computer tech groups I subscribe to and he showed that FireFox was using twice as much of his computer's resources than IE8. I find that IE8 is very reliable to use, even on my oldest computer with only 384MB of RAM and a 16GB Hard Drive... to give folks an idea of how old it is. It actually only had 256MB of RAM but I had an extra 128MB stick that matched so I threw it in. I know, I should have added a matching 256MB stick but I didn't want to spend any money on this computer. That extra 128MB RAM stick made it noticeably faster for my elderly neighbor who uses that computer. I also have them running off of my wireless network and they are still amazed they can do all of this "internet stuff" without having to pay anything or even be connected to anything. LOL I even having them watching missed TV shows on HULU now... "turning their brains into mush, because we're aliens and that's how we roll!" They're thinking about turning off their cable to save some money now... I guess that beats eating cat food. LOL I've seen people (friends, co-workers, associates, etc.) constantly getting hit with malware, spyware, viruses, etc., and someone might tell them "Use FireFox, it's safer than IE" or some other rubbish like that, so the people switch and continue to have problems simply because they practice BAD surfing habits, refuse to learn basic computer security, etc. It's analogous to telling someone, "You need stronger locks on your doors" without telling them to close and lock their Windows (pun intended). ;-) The same thing happens with the Mac commercials and simply put, if the user does not practice basic security, there is nothing anyone can do to protect them. Certainly, hackers spend most of their time going after Microsoft, Windows, IE, etc., since they are the Goliath but ALL of those other computer operating systems, browsers, software, etc. are just and possibly even more vulnerable. What the supporters of these other options do not realize is that every time they promote their choice, they are making their choice more visible to hackers. FireFox and Apple are both seeing this. As they increase their market share, they are also under more and more attacks by hackers. Yes, you can use a more obscure browser like Opera or Chrome, or a more obscure computer OS like Mac's have, and you may feel less at risk, simply because the hackers may not spend as much time going after those browsers and OS, but you ARE NOT SAFE. You still have to practice safe surfing and have adequate computer security, meaning a good firewall (not the Windows firewall), good anti-virus and a couple of good anti-malware/ spyware programs. All of these are available for FREE so there simply is NO REASON for everyone to not have them. Folks that choose to surf the net unprotected WILL get infected and infested and then their computers are used as zombies in a bot-net to create even more havoc for the rest of us. Even Apple is shipping their latest OS, Snow Leopard, with built in security software as they are seeing themselves under more and more web-based attacks. Like with irresponsible people having babies, I wish the Guv'ment would pass a law that says you have to be trained and licensed to have babies and/or using a computer on the net, instead of wasting our tax dollars on all the other crap that the Guv'ment does. Maybe ACORN could offer these services with more Guv'ment Grants... but I think they're too busy setting folks up with brothels right now. LOL Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com [mailto:AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com] On Behalf Of harry perry Sent: Sunday, September 13, 2009 2:22 AM To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Login issues/Opera For quite some time I've had a problem with my computer. It would get so slow I had to reboot as much as 3 times in half an hour. I was running Firefox. I switched to Opera and it made all the difference in the world. The computer is running like it was knew and with Opera's "speed dial" option I bypassed all the password B.S. You should really try it . It speeds up your computer significantly. Harry                                                                             --- On Sun, 9/13/09, Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@gmail. com> wrote: From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@gmail. com> Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Y! Alert: Yahoo! Groups Blog - Login issues for Firefox users To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com Date: Sunday, September 13, 2009, 2:40 AM They added an update to the blog, based on the comments they were getting... "UPDATE: In the comments below we've noticed that some of you are running into this issue with IE and Opera. If this is the case, please report it to Customer Care http://help. yahoo.com/ l/us/yahoo/ groups/original/ members/forms/ general.html and include your browser, your browser's version, and your operating system so we can better track down the issue." I haven't done this since I figure hundreds/thousands of others have already done so. I'm not sure why Yahoo Groups is trying to blame this on browsers, rather than admit it's their issue. Here's the top four comments out of 44. Glen Swift said, September 11, 2009 @ 11:21 pm Don't blame Firefox. I use Internet Explorer (and always have) and tonight I've had to log in at least eight separate times, for no good reason, though mainly when I'm trying to reply to a message or use the back button to return to the list of messages from the message I just finished reading. rik said, September 12, 2009 @ 3:24 am Firefox 2 on XP as well, seems more a Yahoo problem rather than browser Deborah S. said, September 12, 2009 @ 3:25 am I also use Intnet Explorer (and always have), but now I have this problem too. Mostly when switching between my e-gtroups, and with no good reason since I log in daily. And now, more than the log in problem.. Seems that I cannot reply to messages in my groups via the web page (which I have almost always done, I rarely reply via e-mail). When I try to reply, I get a notice that the message (number xxxx) cannot be retrieved. THis is very frustrating, this is NEW problem, and, again, it's not Firefox. I use Interntet Explorer and no other broweser. Hope you can solve this, soon. Brent said, September 12, 2009 @ 4:25 am I am having the same problem on IE8 and Chrome. I also had Yahoo Groups continually ask for my password on my iPhone. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com [mailto:AquaticLife @ yahoogroups. com] On Behalf Of Steve Szabo Sent: Saturday, September 12, 2009 9:40 PM To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Y! Alert: Yahoo! Groups Blog - Login issues for Firefox users I have had no problems logging in with both Firefox 3.5.2 or, now, 3.5.3. On the other hand, my lady has had a problem logging in with one of the lists that she belongs to, but not with any of the lists she owns with 3.5.2, but she has not complained since 3.5.3 was released, though I do not know if she has upgraded to it. \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com [mailto:AquaticLife @ yahoogroups. com] On Behalf Of Lenny V. aka GoldLenny Sent: Saturday, September 12, 2009 7:17 PM To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com Subject: [AquaticLife] Y! Alert: Yahoo! Groups Blog - Login issues for Firefox users AND IE8 USERS TOO.... at least there have been for me. I just figured it was one of Yahoo's typical server glitches that come and go. Read more below my sig. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: Yahoo! Alerts [mailto:alerts@ yahoo- inc.com] Sent: Saturday, September 12, 2009 5:01 PM To: GoldLenny@gmail. com Subject: Y! Alert: Yahoo! Groups Blog Login issues for Firefox users (AND IE8 USERS TOO... AT LEAST FOR LENNY) http://www.ygroupsb log.com http://www.ygroupsb log.com/blog/ 2009/09/11/ login-issues- for-firefox- users/ Several of you have reported that when visiting your groups, you're repeatedly asked to enter your password in order for you to proceed. While this is the expected behavior if you haven't logged in two weeks, or, are attempting to add users to your group, this should not be happening when you're simply trying to access a group or post a message through the web. We are currently investigating this issue, but believe that users who recently upgraded to the newest version of Firefox (3.5.2 or 3.5.3) are impacted by this problem. Until the issue is resolved, we suggest using a different browser for the time-being (ex: Internet Explorer, Safari, or Opera). Or, you may participate in your groups by posting messages via email. We'll be sure to update you all here as soon as we have more information and/or the issue is resolved. Thanks for your patience! Melissa Daniels Yahoo! Community Manager

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 43421	From: Dora Smith	Date: 9/13/2009
Subject: Re: [Bulk] RE: [Bulk] RE: [AquaticLife] Y! Alert: Yahoo! Groups Blog

Lenny, those are links to general articles, and not links to an example of what you're talking about. Do you have a separate blog at Yahoo, or are you talking about the main groups page? I've logged into groups lately. Now, I'm accustomed to some state departments' employment web sites making me sign in again every time I turn around; you have to sign in TWICE every time you make out an application. Yours, Dora Smith Austin, TX tiggernut24@... ----- Original Message ----- From: "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@...> To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Sunday, September 13, 2009 9:08 AM Subject: [Bulk] RE: [Bulk] RE: [AquaticLife] Y! Alert: Yahoo! Groups Blog - Login issues for Firefox users You obviously did NOT read the entire thread. Scroll down to the bottom and read the previous posts. I forwarded a Yahoo Groups Blog article, which I get as an "Alert", to let folks know what may be happening to them. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Dora Smith Sent: Sunday, September 13, 2009 8:51 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [Bulk] RE: [AquaticLife] Y! Alert: Yahoo! Groups Blog - Login issues for Firefox users Logging into what? It took me the longest time to figure out what you are talking about. I use firefox. I'll be glad to give it a try. Yours, Dora Smith Austin, TX tiggernut24@... ----- Original Message ----- From: "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@...> To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Sunday, September 13, 2009 1:40 AM Subject: [Bulk] RE: [AquaticLife] Y! Alert: Yahoo! Groups Blog - Login issues for Firefox users They added an update to the blog, based on the comments they were getting... "UPDATE: In the comments below we've noticed that some of you are running into this issue with IE and Opera. If this is the case, please report it to Customer Care http://help.yahoo.com/l/us/yahoo/groups/original/members/forms/general.html and include your browser, your browser's version, and your operating system so we can better track down the issue." I haven't done this since I figure hundreds/thousands of others have already done so. I'm not sure why Yahoo Groups is trying to blame this on browsers, rather than admit it's their issue. Here's the top four comments out of 44. Glen Swift said, September 11, 2009 @ 11:21 pm Don't blame Firefox. I use Internet Explorer (and always have) and tonight I've had to log in at least eight separate times, for no good reason, though mainly when I'm trying to reply to a message or use the back button to return to the list of messages from the message I just finished reading. rik said, September 12, 2009 @ 3:24 am Firefox 2 on XP as well, seems more a Yahoo problem rather than browser Deborah S. said, September 12, 2009 @ 3:25 am I also use Intnet Explorer (and always have), but now I have this problem too. Mostly when switching between my e-gtroups, and with no good reason since I log in daily. And now, more than the log in problem.. Seems that I cannot reply to messages in my groups via the web page (which I have almost always done, I rarely reply via e-mail). When I try to reply, I get a notice that the message (number xxxx) cannot be retrieved. THis is very frustrating, this is NEW problem, and, again, it's not Firefox. I use Interntet Explorer and no other broweser. Hope you can solve this, soon. Brent said, September 12, 2009 @ 4:25 am I am having the same problem on IE8 and Chrome. I also had Yahoo Groups continually ask for my password on my iPhone. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Steve Szabo Sent: Saturday, September 12, 2009 9:40 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Y! Alert: Yahoo! Groups Blog - Login issues for Firefox users I have had no problems logging in with both Firefox 3.5.2 or, now, 3.5.3. On the other hand, my lady has had a problem logging in with one of the lists that she belongs to, but not with any of the lists she owns with 3.5.2, but she has not complained since 3.5.3 was released, though I do not know if she has upgraded to it. \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Lenny V. aka GoldLenny Sent: Saturday, September 12, 2009 7:17 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Y! Alert: Yahoo! Groups Blog - Login issues for Firefox users AND IE8 USERS TOO.... at least there have been for me. I just figured it was one of Yahoo's typical server glitches that come and go. Read more below my sig. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: Yahoo! Alerts [mailto:alerts@...] Sent: Saturday, September 12, 2009 5:01 PM To: GoldLenny@... Subject: Y! Alert: Yahoo! Groups Blog Login issues for Firefox users (AND IE8 USERS TOO... AT LEAST FOR LENNY) http://www.ygroupsblog.com http://www.ygroupsblog.com/blog/2009/09/11/login-issues-for-firefox-users/ Several of you have reported that when visiting your groups, you're repeatedly asked to enter your password in order for you to proceed. While this is the expected behavior if you haven't logged in two weeks, or, are attempting to add users to your group, this should not be happening when you're simply trying to access a group or post a message through the web. We are currently investigating this issue, but believe that users who recently upgraded to the newest version of Firefox (3.5.2 or 3.5.3) are impacted by this problem. Until the issue is resolved, we suggest using a different browser for the time-being (ex: Internet Explorer, Safari, or Opera). Or, you may participate in your groups by posting messages via email. We'll be sure to update you all here as soon as we have more information and/or the issue is resolved. Thanks for your patience! Melissa Daniels Yahoo! Community Manager ------------------------------------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the home page. Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com to receive the digest, which includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com for the No E-Mail option where you will still be able to read messages on the group and post replies. Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com to receive individual e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 43422	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 9/13/2009
Subject: Re: [Bulk] RE: [Bulk] RE: [AquaticLife] Y! Alert: Yahoo! Groups Blog

Here's the Original Message in the thread, which is still in this email all the way at the bottom. It's self-explanatory as far as I read it. This is an Alert from Yahoo, via their Yahoo Group's blog, which I subscribe to. -----Original Message----- From: Yahoo! Alerts [mailto:alerts@...] Sent: Saturday, September 12, 2009 5:01 PM To: GoldLenny@... Subject: Y! Alert: Yahoo! Groups Blog Login issues for Firefox users (AND IE8 USERS TOO... AT LEAST FOR LENNY) http://www.ygroupsblog.com http://www.ygroupsblog.com/blog/2009/09/11/login-issues-for-firefox-users/ Several of you have reported that when visiting your groups, you're repeatedly asked to enter your password in order for you to proceed. While this is the expected behavior if you haven't logged in two weeks, or, are attempting to add users to your group, this should not be happening when you're simply trying to access a group or post a message through the web. We are currently investigating this issue, but believe that users who recently upgraded to the newest version of Firefox (3.5.2 or 3.5.3) are impacted by this problem. Until the issue is resolved, we suggest using a different browser for the time-being (ex: Internet Explorer, Safari, or Opera). Or, you may participate in your groups by posting messages via email. We'll be sure to update you all here as soon as we have more information and/or the issue is resolved. Thanks for your patience! Melissa Daniels Yahoo! Community Manager -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Dora Smith Sent: Sunday, September 13, 2009 2:07 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [Bulk] RE: [Bulk] RE: [AquaticLife] Y! Alert: Yahoo! Groups Blog - Login issues for Firefox users Lenny, those are links to general articles, and not links to an example of what you're talking about. Do you have a separate blog at Yahoo, or are you talking about the main groups page? I've logged into groups lately. Now, I'm accustomed to some state departments' employment web sites making me sign in again every time I turn around; you have to sign in TWICE every time you make out an application. Yours, Dora Smith Austin, TX tiggernut24@... ----- Original Message ----- From: "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@...> To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Sunday, September 13, 2009 9:08 AM Subject: [Bulk] RE: [Bulk] RE: [AquaticLife] Y! Alert: Yahoo! Groups Blog - Login issues for Firefox users You obviously did NOT read the entire thread. Scroll down to the bottom and read the previous posts. I forwarded a Yahoo Groups Blog article, which I get as an "Alert", to let folks know what may be happening to them. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Dora Smith Sent: Sunday, September 13, 2009 8:51 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [Bulk] RE: [AquaticLife] Y! Alert: Yahoo! Groups Blog - Login issues for Firefox users Logging into what? It took me the longest time to figure out what you are talking about. I use firefox. I'll be glad to give it a try. Yours, Dora Smith Austin, TX tiggernut24@... ----- Original Message ----- From: "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@...> To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Sunday, September 13, 2009 1:40 AM Subject: [Bulk] RE: [AquaticLife] Y! Alert: Yahoo! Groups Blog - Login issues for Firefox users They added an update to the blog, based on the comments they were getting... "UPDATE: In the comments below we've noticed that some of you are running into this issue with IE and Opera. If this is the case, please report it to Customer Care http://help.yahoo.com/l/us/yahoo/groups/original/members/forms/general.html and include your browser, your browser's version, and your operating system so we can better track down the issue." I haven't done this since I figure hundreds/thousands of others have already done so. I'm not sure why Yahoo Groups is trying to blame this on browsers, rather than admit it's their issue. Here's the top four comments out of 44. Glen Swift said, September 11, 2009 @ 11:21 pm Don't blame Firefox. I use Internet Explorer (and always have) and tonight I've had to log in at least eight separate times, for no good reason, though mainly when I'm trying to reply to a message or use the back button to return to the list of messages from the message I just finished reading. rik said, September 12, 2009 @ 3:24 am Firefox 2 on XP as well, seems more a Yahoo problem rather than browser Deborah S. said, September 12, 2009 @ 3:25 am I also use Intnet Explorer (and always have), but now I have this problem too. Mostly when switching between my e-gtroups, and with no good reason since I log in daily. And now, more than the log in problem.. Seems that I cannot reply to messages in my groups via the web page (which I have almost always done, I rarely reply via e-mail). When I try to reply, I get a notice that the message (number xxxx) cannot be retrieved. THis is very frustrating, this is NEW problem, and, again, it's not Firefox. I use Interntet Explorer and no other broweser. Hope you can solve this, soon. Brent said, September 12, 2009 @ 4:25 am I am having the same problem on IE8 and Chrome. I also had Yahoo Groups continually ask for my password on my iPhone. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Steve Szabo Sent: Saturday, September 12, 2009 9:40 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Y! Alert: Yahoo! Groups Blog - Login issues for Firefox users I have had no problems logging in with both Firefox 3.5.2 or, now, 3.5.3. On the other hand, my lady has had a problem logging in with one of the lists that she belongs to, but not with any of the lists she owns with 3.5.2, but she has not complained since 3.5.3 was released, though I do not know if she has upgraded to it. \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Lenny V. aka GoldLenny Sent: Saturday, September 12, 2009 7:17 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Y! Alert: Yahoo! Groups Blog - Login issues for Firefox users AND IE8 USERS TOO.... at least there have been for me. I just figured it was one of Yahoo's typical server glitches that come and go. Read more below my sig. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: Yahoo! Alerts [mailto:alerts@...] Sent: Saturday, September 12, 2009 5:01 PM To: GoldLenny@... Subject: Y! Alert: Yahoo! Groups Blog Login issues for Firefox users (AND IE8 USERS TOO... AT LEAST FOR LENNY) http://www.ygroupsblog.com http://www.ygroupsblog.com/blog/2009/09/11/login-issues-for-firefox-users/ Several of you have reported that when visiting your groups, you're repeatedly asked to enter your password in order for you to proceed. While this is the expected behavior if you haven't logged in two weeks, or, are attempting to add users to your group, this should not be happening when you're simply trying to access a group or post a message through the web. We are currently investigating this issue, but believe that users who recently upgraded to the newest version of Firefox (3.5.2 or 3.5.3) are impacted by this problem. Until the issue is resolved, we suggest using a different browser for the time-being (ex: Internet Explorer, Safari, or Opera). Or, you may participate in your groups by posting messages via email. We'll be sure to update you all here as soon as we have more information and/or the issue is resolved. Thanks for your patience! Melissa Daniels Yahoo! Community Manager ------------------------------------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the home page. Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com to receive the digest, which includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com for the No E-Mail option where you will still be able to read messages on the group and post replies. Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com to receive individual e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links ------------------------------------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the home page. Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com to receive the digest, which includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com for the No E-Mail option where you will still be able to read messages on the group and post replies. Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com to receive individual e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 43423	From: harry perry	Date: 9/13/2009
Subject: Re: Login issues/Opera/Lenny/again

Who do you have for your DSL service. Thanks Harry --- On Sun, 9/13/09, Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@...> wrote: From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@...> Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Login issues/Opera/Lenny To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Date: Sunday, September 13, 2009, 3:27 PM   No. I pay for my internet but have a wireless router so the signal travels to a couple of my neighbors homes and set them up with a WPA security key, so they can log into my wireless internet signal, so my neighbor whom I am letting use one of my old computers with a USB wireless modem can pick up my wireless router signal and access the internet for free. I only pay $19.95 a month for DSL service so I don't worry about collecting $5.00 from each of the ones that I let use my service. On a side note, I bet there are still some dial-up services that are free, although there will likely be banner ads that show up on every webpage, besides the other ads that show up. I know K-Mart had this service called BlueLight.com years ago and NetZero also had this service, thus their name, NetZero. I know one of my neighbors told me a year or so ago that they still used the free NetZero dial-up service. I don't know if I would ever want to go back to dial-up service. My DSL service is adequate for me since I do not download a music or movies, although I do watch them on HULU, YouTube Movies, etc. I just press the pause button and let the video load up for a little while before playing so there is no lag when I start watching the program. Cox cable is now offering cable internet for $19.95 a month with their digital cable service but I don't want to pay the extra money for digital cable so I'll stay with my DSL for now. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com [mailto:AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com] On Behalf Of harry perry Sent: Sunday, September 13, 2009 1:56 PM To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Login issues/Opera/ Lenny are still amazed they can do all of this "Internet stuff" without having to   pay anything or even be connected to anything. Lenny, you have access to the Internet for free?. How did you do that?. Harry  --- On Sun, 9/13/09, Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@gmail. com> wrote: From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@gmail. com> Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Login issues/Opera To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com Date: Sunday, September 13, 2009, 4:30 AM My vast experience with computer users, although not as vast as \\Steve's// and maybe others, has shown that simply changing browsers does not usually solve computer problems. I'm glad it's working in your case but for the dozens of people that I've come across who were told to switch from IE to FF or Opera or Chrome, etc., that simply does not solve the problem since the problem is generally a PICNIC problem... not a computer problem. BTW, PICNIC means Problem In Chair, Not In Computer. In your case, I believe your computer is older so you do have to pick and choose which software you run as some will certainly use up more than others. I was just reading a post in one of the computer tech groups I subscribe to and he showed that FireFox was using twice as much of his computer's resources than IE8. I find that IE8 is very reliable to use, even on my oldest computer with only 384MB of RAM and a 16GB Hard Drive... to give folks an idea of how old it is. It actually only had 256MB of RAM but I had an extra 128MB stick that matched so I threw it in. I know, I should have added a matching 256MB stick but I didn't want to spend any money on this computer. That extra 128MB RAM stick made it noticeably faster for my elderly neighbor who uses that computer. I also have them running off of my wireless network and they are still amazed they can do all of this "internet stuff" without having to pay anything or even be connected to anything. LOL I even having them watching missed TV shows on HULU now... "turning their brains into mush, because we're aliens and that's how we roll!" They're thinking about turning off their cable to save some money now... I guess that beats eating cat food. LOL I've seen people (friends, co-workers, associates, etc.) constantly getting hit with malware, spyware, viruses, etc., and someone might tell them "Use FireFox, it's safer than IE" or some other rubbish like that, so the people switch and continue to have problems simply because they practice BAD surfing habits, refuse to learn basic computer security, etc. It's analogous to telling someone, "You need stronger locks on your doors" without telling them to close and lock their Windows (pun intended). ;-) The same thing happens with the Mac commercials and simply put, if the user does not practice basic security, there is nothing anyone can do to protect them. Certainly, hackers spend most of their time going after Microsoft, Windows, IE, etc., since they are the Goliath but ALL of those other computer operating systems, browsers, software, etc. are just and possibly even more vulnerable. What the supporters of these other options do not realize is that every time they promote their choice, they are making their choice more visible to hackers. FireFox and Apple are both seeing this. As they increase their market share, they are also under more and more attacks by hackers. Yes, you can use a more obscure browser like Opera or Chrome, or a more obscure computer OS like Mac's have, and you may feel less at risk, simply because the hackers may not spend as much time going after those browsers and OS, but you ARE NOT SAFE. You still have to practice safe surfing and have adequate computer security, meaning a good firewall (not the Windows firewall), good anti-virus and a couple of good anti-malware/ spyware programs. All of these are available for FREE so there simply is NO REASON for everyone to not have them. Folks that choose to surf the net unprotected WILL get infected and infested and then their computers are used as zombies in a bot-net to create even more havoc for the rest of us. Even Apple is shipping their latest OS, Snow Leopard, with built in security software as they are seeing themselves under more and more web-based attacks. Like with irresponsible people having babies, I wish the Guv'ment would pass a law that says you have to be trained and licensed to have babies and/or using a computer on the net, instead of wasting our tax dollars on all the other crap that the Guv'ment does. Maybe ACORN could offer these services with more Guv'ment Grants... but I think they're too busy setting folks up with brothels right now. LOL Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com [mailto:AquaticLife @ yahoogroups. com] On Behalf Of harry perry Sent: Sunday, September 13, 2009 2:22 AM To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Login issues/Opera For quite some time I've had a problem with my computer. It would get so slow I had to reboot as much as 3 times in half an hour. I was running Firefox. I switched to Opera and it made all the difference in the world. The computer is running like it was knew and with Opera's "speed dial" option I bypassed all the password B.S. You should really try it . It speeds up your computer significantly. Harry                                                                             --- On Sun, 9/13/09, Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@gmail. com> wrote: From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@gmail. com> Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Y! Alert: Yahoo! Groups Blog - Login issues for Firefox users To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com Date: Sunday, September 13, 2009, 2:40 AM They added an update to the blog, based on the comments they were getting... "UPDATE: In the comments below we've noticed that some of you are running into this issue with IE and Opera. If this is the case, please report it to Customer Care http://help. yahoo.com/ l/us/yahoo/ groups/original/ members/forms/ general.html and include your browser, your browser's version, and your operating system so we can better track down the issue." I haven't done this since I figure hundreds/thousands of others have already done so. I'm not sure why Yahoo Groups is trying to blame this on browsers, rather than admit it's their issue. Here's the top four comments out of 44. Glen Swift said, September 11, 2009 @ 11:21 pm Don't blame Firefox. I use Internet Explorer (and always have) and tonight I've had to log in at least eight separate times, for no good reason, though mainly when I'm trying to reply to a message or use the back button to return to the list of messages from the message I just finished reading. rik said, September 12, 2009 @ 3:24 am Firefox 2 on XP as well, seems more a Yahoo problem rather than browser Deborah S. said, September 12, 2009 @ 3:25 am I also use Intnet Explorer (and always have), but now I have this problem too. Mostly when switching between my e-gtroups, and with no good reason since I log in daily. And now, more than the log in problem.. Seems that I cannot reply to messages in my groups via the web page (which I have almost always done, I rarely reply via e-mail). When I try to reply, I get a notice that the message (number xxxx) cannot be retrieved. THis is very frustrating, this is NEW problem, and, again, it's not Firefox. I use Interntet Explorer and no other broweser. Hope you can solve this, soon. Brent said, September 12, 2009 @ 4:25 am I am having the same problem on IE8 and Chrome. I also had Yahoo Groups continually ask for my password on my iPhone. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com [mailto:AquaticLife @ yahoogroups. com] On Behalf Of Steve Szabo Sent: Saturday, September 12, 2009 9:40 PM To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Y! Alert: Yahoo! Groups Blog - Login issues for Firefox users I have had no problems logging in with both Firefox 3.5.2 or, now, 3.5.3. On the other hand, my lady has had a problem logging in with one of the lists that she belongs to, but not with any of the lists she owns with 3.5.2, but she has not complained since 3.5.3 was released, though I do not know if she has upgraded to it. \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com [mailto:AquaticLife @ yahoogroups. com] On Behalf Of Lenny V. aka GoldLenny Sent: Saturday, September 12, 2009 7:17 PM To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com Subject: [AquaticLife] Y! Alert: Yahoo! Groups Blog - Login issues for Firefox users AND IE8 USERS TOO.... at least there have been for me. I just figured it was one of Yahoo's typical server glitches that come and go. Read more below my sig. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: Yahoo! Alerts [mailto:alerts@ yahoo- inc.com] Sent: Saturday, September 12, 2009 5:01 PM To: GoldLenny@gmail. com Subject: Y! Alert: Yahoo! Groups Blog Login issues for Firefox users (AND IE8 USERS TOO... AT LEAST FOR LENNY) http://www.ygroupsb log.com http://www.ygroupsb log.com/blog/ 2009/09/11/ login-issues- for-firefox- users/ Several of you have reported that when visiting your groups, you're repeatedly asked to enter your password in order for you to proceed. While this is the expected behavior if you haven't logged in two weeks, or, are attempting to add users to your group, this should not be happening when you're simply trying to access a group or post a message through the web. We are currently investigating this issue, but believe that users who recently upgraded to the newest version of Firefox (3.5.2 or 3.5.3) are impacted by this problem. Until the issue is resolved, we suggest using a different browser for the time-being (ex: Internet Explorer, Safari, or Opera). Or, you may participate in your groups by posting messages via email. We'll be sure to update you all here as soon as we have more information and/or the issue is resolved. Thanks for your patience! Melissa Daniels Yahoo! Community Manager [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 43424	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 9/13/2009
Subject: Re: Login issues/Opera/Lenny/again

Bellsouth.net, now owned by AT&T again. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of harry perry Sent: Sunday, September 13, 2009 3:04 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Login issues/Opera/Lenny/again Who do you have for your DSL service. Thanks Harry --- On Sun, 9/13/09, Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@...> wrote: From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@...> Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Login issues/Opera/Lenny To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Date: Sunday, September 13, 2009, 3:27 PM   No. I pay for my internet but have a wireless router so the signal travels to a couple of my neighbors homes and set them up with a WPA security key, so they can log into my wireless internet signal, so my neighbor whom I am letting use one of my old computers with a USB wireless modem can pick up my wireless router signal and access the internet for free. I only pay $19.95 a month for DSL service so I don't worry about collecting $5.00 from each of the ones that I let use my service. On a side note, I bet there are still some dial-up services that are free, although there will likely be banner ads that show up on every webpage, besides the other ads that show up. I know K-Mart had this service called BlueLight.com years ago and NetZero also had this service, thus their name, NetZero. I know one of my neighbors told me a year or so ago that they still used the free NetZero dial-up service. I don't know if I would ever want to go back to dial-up service. My DSL service is adequate for me since I do not download a music or movies, although I do watch them on HULU, YouTube Movies, etc. I just press the pause button and let the video load up for a little while before playing so there is no lag when I start watching the program. Cox cable is now offering cable internet for $19.95 a month with their digital cable service but I don't want to pay the extra money for digital cable so I'll stay with my DSL for now. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com [mailto:AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com] On Behalf Of harry perry Sent: Sunday, September 13, 2009 1:56 PM To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Login issues/Opera/ Lenny are still amazed they can do all of this "Internet stuff" without having to   pay anything or even be connected to anything. Lenny, you have access to the Internet for free?. How did you do that?. Harry  --- On Sun, 9/13/09, Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@gmail. com> wrote: From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@gmail. com> Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Login issues/Opera To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com Date: Sunday, September 13, 2009, 4:30 AM My vast experience with computer users, although not as vast as \\Steve's// and maybe others, has shown that simply changing browsers does not usually solve computer problems. I'm glad it's working in your case but for the dozens of people that I've come across who were told to switch from IE to FF or Opera or Chrome, etc., that simply does not solve the problem since the problem is generally a PICNIC problem... not a computer problem. BTW, PICNIC means Problem In Chair, Not In Computer. In your case, I believe your computer is older so you do have to pick and choose which software you run as some will certainly use up more than others. I was just reading a post in one of the computer tech groups I subscribe to and he showed that FireFox was using twice as much of his computer's resources than IE8. I find that IE8 is very reliable to use, even on my oldest computer with only 384MB of RAM and a 16GB Hard Drive... to give folks an idea of how old it is. It actually only had 256MB of RAM but I had an extra 128MB stick that matched so I threw it in. I know, I should have added a matching 256MB stick but I didn't want to spend any money on this computer. That extra 128MB RAM stick made it noticeably faster for my elderly neighbor who uses that computer. I also have them running off of my wireless network and they are still amazed they can do all of this "internet stuff" without having to pay anything or even be connected to anything. LOL I even having them watching missed TV shows on HULU now... "turning their brains into mush, because we're aliens and that's how we roll!" They're thinking about turning off their cable to save some money now... I guess that beats eating cat food. LOL I've seen people (friends, co-workers, associates, etc.) constantly getting hit with malware, spyware, viruses, etc., and someone might tell them "Use FireFox, it's safer than IE" or some other rubbish like that, so the people switch and continue to have problems simply because they practice BAD surfing habits, refuse to learn basic computer security, etc. It's analogous to telling someone, "You need stronger locks on your doors" without telling them to close and lock their Windows (pun intended). ;-) The same thing happens with the Mac commercials and simply put, if the user does not practice basic security, there is nothing anyone can do to protect them. Certainly, hackers spend most of their time going after Microsoft, Windows, IE, etc., since they are the Goliath but ALL of those other computer operating systems, browsers, software, etc. are just and possibly even more vulnerable. What the supporters of these other options do not realize is that every time they promote their choice, they are making their choice more visible to hackers. FireFox and Apple are both seeing this. As they increase their market share, they are also under more and more attacks by hackers. Yes, you can use a more obscure browser like Opera or Chrome, or a more obscure computer OS like Mac's have, and you may feel less at risk, simply because the hackers may not spend as much time going after those browsers and OS, but you ARE NOT SAFE. You still have to practice safe surfing and have adequate computer security, meaning a good firewall (not the Windows firewall), good anti-virus and a couple of good anti-malware/ spyware programs. All of these are available for FREE so there simply is NO REASON for everyone to not have them. Folks that choose to surf the net unprotected WILL get infected and infested and then their computers are used as zombies in a bot-net to create even more havoc for the rest of us. Even Apple is shipping their latest OS, Snow Leopard, with built in security software as they are seeing themselves under more and more web-based attacks. Like with irresponsible people having babies, I wish the Guv'ment would pass a law that says you have to be trained and licensed to have babies and/or using a computer on the net, instead of wasting our tax dollars on all the other crap that the Guv'ment does. Maybe ACORN could offer these services with more Guv'ment Grants... but I think they're too busy setting folks up with brothels right now. LOL Lenny Vasbinder

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 43425	From: Dora Smith	Date: 9/13/2009
Subject: Re: Y! Alert: Yahoo! Groups Blog - Login issues for Firefox users

OK, so this is an issue with Yahoo groups. It has nothing to do with a blog. Yours, Dora Smith Austin, TX tiggernut24@... ----- Original Message ----- From: "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@...> To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Sunday, September 13, 2009 2:31 PM Subject: [Bulk] RE: [Bulk] RE: [Bulk] RE: [AquaticLife] Y! Alert: Yahoo! Groups Blog - Login issues for Firefox users Here's the Original Message in the thread, which is still in this email all the way at the bottom. It's self-explanatory as far as I read it. This is an Alert from Yahoo, via their Yahoo Group's blog, which I subscribe to. -----Original Message----- From: Yahoo! Alerts [mailto:alerts@...] Sent: Saturday, September 12, 2009 5:01 PM To: GoldLenny@... Subject: Y! Alert: Yahoo! Groups Blog Login issues for Firefox users (AND IE8 USERS TOO... AT LEAST FOR LENNY) http://www.ygroupsblog.com http://www.ygroupsblog.com/blog/2009/09/11/login-issues-for-firefox-users/ Several of you have reported that when visiting your groups, you're repeatedly asked to enter your password in order for you to proceed. While this is the expected behavior if you haven't logged in two weeks, or, are attempting to add users to your group, this should not be happening when you're simply trying to access a group or post a message through the web. We are currently investigating this issue, but believe that users who recently upgraded to the newest version of Firefox (3.5.2 or 3.5.3) are impacted by this problem. Until the issue is resolved, we suggest using a different browser for the time-being (ex: Internet Explorer, Safari, or Opera). Or, you may participate in your groups by posting messages via email. We'll be sure to update you all here as soon as we have more information and/or the issue is resolved. Thanks for your patience! Melissa Daniels Yahoo! Community Manager

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 43426	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 9/13/2009
Subject: Re: Login issues/Opera/Lenny

I have a business account at home, because I need a static IP address, and that runs me $99/month. I get 20Mb down and 5Mb up. At the office we have a DSL connection and a synchronous 10Mb connection with a data center basically across the hall from us. We use both lines for different purposes. The DSL is going to be replaced shortly with a FiOS connection. The 10Mb connection is basically free for us, though we do occasionally do some work for the data center for which we do not charge. Since the work is assigned to someone who has some downtime (i.e. not scheduled for a client), it is "free" work that does not take from our business. This would be a very expensive line if we had to actually pay for it. If you doubt me, look at the cost for synchronous lines (as opposed to the asynchronous lines that everyone has from their ISP). \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Lenny V. aka GoldLenny Sent: Sunday, September 13, 2009 3:27 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Login issues/Opera/Lenny No. I pay for my internet but have a wireless router so the signal travels to a couple of my neighbors homes and set them up with a WPA security key, so they can log into my wireless internet signal, so my neighbor whom I am letting use one of my old computers with a USB wireless modem can pick up my wireless router signal and access the internet for free. I only pay $19.95 a month for DSL service so I don't worry about collecting $5.00 from each of the ones that I let use my service. On a side note, I bet there are still some dial-up services that are free, although there will likely be banner ads that show up on every webpage, besides the other ads that show up. I know K-Mart had this service called BlueLight.com years ago and NetZero also had this service, thus their name, NetZero. I know one of my neighbors told me a year or so ago that they still used the free NetZero dial-up service. I don't know if I would ever want to go back to dial-up service. My DSL service is adequate for me since I do not download a music or movies, although I do watch them on HULU, YouTube Movies, etc. I just press the pause button and let the video load up for a little while before playing so there is no lag when I start watching the program. Cox cable is now offering cable internet for $19.95 a month with their digital cable service but I don't want to pay the extra money for digital cable so I'll stay with my DSL for now. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of harry perry Sent: Sunday, September 13, 2009 1:56 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Login issues/Opera/Lenny are still amazed they can do all of this "Internet stuff" without having to   pay anything or even be connected to anything. Lenny, you have access to the Internet for free?. How did you do that?. Harry  --- On Sun, 9/13/09, Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@...> wrote: From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@...> Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Login issues/Opera To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Date: Sunday, September 13, 2009, 4:30 AM My vast experience with computer users, although not as vast as \\Steve's// and maybe others, has shown that simply changing browsers does not usually solve computer problems. I'm glad it's working in your case but for the dozens of people that I've come across who were told to switch from IE to FF or Opera or Chrome, etc., that simply does not solve the problem since the problem is generally a PICNIC problem... not a computer problem. BTW, PICNIC means Problem In Chair, Not In Computer. In your case, I believe your computer is older so you do have to pick and choose which software you run as some will certainly use up more than others. I was just reading a post in one of the computer tech groups I subscribe to and he showed that FireFox was using twice as much of his computer's resources than IE8. I find that IE8 is very reliable to use, even on my oldest computer with only 384MB of RAM and a 16GB Hard Drive... to give folks an idea of how old it is. It actually only had 256MB of RAM but I had an extra 128MB stick that matched so I threw it in. I know, I should have added a matching 256MB stick but I didn't want to spend any money on this computer. That extra 128MB RAM stick made it noticeably faster for my elderly neighbor who uses that computer. I also have them running off of my wireless network and they are still amazed they can do all of this "internet stuff" without having to pay anything or even be connected to anything. LOL I even having them watching missed TV shows on HULU now... "turning their brains into mush, because we're aliens and that's how we roll!" They're thinking about turning off their cable to save some money now... I guess that beats eating cat food. LOL I've seen people (friends, co-workers, associates, etc.) constantly getting hit with malware, spyware, viruses, etc., and someone might tell them "Use FireFox, it's safer than IE" or some other rubbish like that, so the people switch and continue to have problems simply because they practice BAD surfing habits, refuse to learn basic computer security, etc. It's analogous to telling someone, "You need stronger locks on your doors" without telling them to close and lock their Windows (pun intended). ;-) The same thing happens with the Mac commercials and simply put, if the user does not practice basic security, there is nothing anyone can do to protect them. Certainly, hackers spend most of their time going after Microsoft, Windows, IE, etc., since they are the Goliath but ALL of those other computer operating systems, browsers, software, etc. are just and possibly even more vulnerable. What the supporters of these other options do not realize is that every time they promote their choice, they are making their choice more visible to hackers. FireFox and Apple are both seeing this. As they increase their market share, they are also under more and more attacks by hackers. Yes, you can use a more obscure browser like Opera or Chrome, or a more obscure computer OS like Mac's have, and you may feel less at risk, simply because the hackers may not spend as much time going after those browsers and OS, but you ARE NOT SAFE. You still have to practice safe surfing and have adequate computer security, meaning a good firewall (not the Windows firewall), good anti-virus and a couple of good anti-malware/ spyware programs. All of these are available for FREE so there simply is NO REASON for everyone to not have them. Folks that choose to surf the net unprotected WILL get infected and infested and then their computers are used as zombies in a bot-net to create even more havoc for the rest of us. Even Apple is shipping their latest OS, Snow Leopard, with built in security software as they are seeing themselves under more and more web-based attacks. Like with irresponsible people having babies, I wish the Guv'ment would pass a law that says you have to be trained and licensed to have babies and/or using a computer on the net, instead of wasting our tax dollars on all the other crap that the Guv'ment does. Maybe ACORN could offer these services with more Guv'ment Grants... but I think they're too busy setting folks up with brothels right now. LOL Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com [mailto:AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com] On Behalf Of harry perry Sent: Sunday, September 13, 2009 2:22 AM To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Login issues/Opera For quite some time I've had a problem with my computer. It would get so slow I had to reboot as much as 3 times in half an hour. I was running Firefox. I switched to Opera and it made all the difference in the world. The computer is running like it was knew and with Opera's "speed dial" option I bypassed all the password B.S. You should really try it . It speeds up your computer significantly. Harry

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 43427	From: fishdudeut	Date: 9/13/2009
Subject: Re: Molly and Salt.

Another Question about Mollies. Can they be mixed? I know with tetras if you want a 6 of them they need to all be neons or what ever. Can you mix mollies like Sailfin Molly and Lyretail Molly or should they be keep to the same type and what about colors should they be the same as well?

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 43428	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 9/13/2009
Subject: Re: Login issues/Opera/Lenny

\\Steve// Do you know why the phone companies dropped the A from ADSL? Was it simply for marketing purposes... not that very many people know what DSL means either. I know when the phone companies first started selling internet service, it was called ADSL (Asymmetric Digital Subscriber Line) and eventually changed to DSL which I know it's not truly DSL since the lines are not dedicated copper lines but rather where the internet runs along side the phone signals. I'm guessing Asynchronous and Asymmetric are synonymous? Wow.. some big words getting thrown around here. LOL Here's a page of synonyms of asymmetric but asynchronous is not listed, even as a word, in a Reference.com search but does show up on Synonym.com. http://thesaurus.reference.com/browse/asymmetrical http://thesaurus.reference.com/browse/asynchronous (nothing found and they make suggestions) http://www.synonym.com/synonyms/asynchronous/ (does show it as a word and some synonyms) Here's a WiseGeek article about ADSL/DSL. http://www.wisegeek.com/what-is-the-difference-between-dsl-and-adsl.htm Or, did you use asynchronous when asymmetric should have been used? To me, they sound like they could be used synonymously but maybe not. I didn't realize there might have been an error until I read the WiseGeek.com article and saw asymmetric as the original word that the phone companies used. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Steve Szabo Sent: Sunday, September 13, 2009 3:26 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Login issues/Opera/Lenny I have a business account at home, because I need a static IP address, and that runs me $99/month. I get 20Mb down and 5Mb up. At the office we have a DSL connection and a synchronous 10Mb connection with a data center basically across the hall from us. We use both lines for different purposes. The DSL is going to be replaced shortly with a FiOS connection. The 10Mb connection is basically free for us, though we do occasionally do some work for the data center for which we do not charge. Since the work is assigned to someone who has some downtime (i.e. not scheduled for a client), it is "free" work that does not take from our business. This would be a very expensive line if we had to actually pay for it. If you doubt me, look at the cost for synchronous lines (as opposed to the asynchronous lines that everyone has from their ISP). \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Lenny V. aka GoldLenny Sent: Sunday, September 13, 2009 3:27 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Login issues/Opera/Lenny No. I pay for my internet but have a wireless router so the signal travels to a couple of my neighbors homes and set them up with a WPA security key, so they can log into my wireless internet signal, so my neighbor whom I am letting use one of my old computers with a USB wireless modem can pick up my wireless router signal and access the internet for free. I only pay $19.95 a month for DSL service so I don't worry about collecting $5.00 from each of the ones that I let use my service. On a side note, I bet there are still some dial-up services that are free, although there will likely be banner ads that show up on every webpage, besides the other ads that show up. I know K-Mart had this service called BlueLight.com years ago and NetZero also had this service, thus their name, NetZero. I know one of my neighbors told me a year or so ago that they still used the free NetZero dial-up service. I don't know if I would ever want to go back to dial-up service. My DSL service is adequate for me since I do not download a music or movies, although I do watch them on HULU, YouTube Movies, etc. I just press the pause button and let the video load up for a little while before playing so there is no lag when I start watching the program. Cox cable is now offering cable internet for $19.95 a month with their digital cable service but I don't want to pay the extra money for digital cable so I'll stay with my DSL for now. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of harry perry Sent: Sunday, September 13, 2009 1:56 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Login issues/Opera/Lenny are still amazed they can do all of this "Internet stuff" without having to   pay anything or even be connected to anything. Lenny, you have access to the Internet for free?. How did you do that?. Harry  --- On Sun, 9/13/09, Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@...> wrote: From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@...> Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Login issues/Opera To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Date: Sunday, September 13, 2009, 4:30 AM My vast experience with computer users, although not as vast as \\Steve's// and maybe others, has shown that simply changing browsers does not usually solve computer problems. I'm glad it's working in your case but for the dozens of people that I've come across who were told to switch from IE to FF or Opera or Chrome, etc., that simply does not solve the problem since the problem is generally a PICNIC problem... not a computer problem. BTW, PICNIC means Problem In Chair, Not In Computer. In your case, I believe your computer is older so you do have to pick and choose which software you run as some will certainly use up more than others. I was just reading a post in one of the computer tech groups I subscribe to and he showed that FireFox was using twice as much of his computer's resources than IE8. I find that IE8 is very reliable to use, even on my oldest computer with only 384MB of RAM and a 16GB Hard Drive... to give folks an idea of how old it is. It actually only had 256MB of RAM but I had an extra 128MB stick that matched so I threw it in. I know, I should have added a matching 256MB stick but I didn't want to spend any money on this computer. That extra 128MB RAM stick made it noticeably faster for my elderly neighbor who uses that computer. I also have them running off of my wireless network and they are still amazed they can do all of this "internet stuff" without having to pay anything or even be connected to anything. LOL I even having them watching missed TV shows on HULU now... "turning their brains into mush, because we're aliens and that's how we roll!" They're thinking about turning off their cable to save some money now... I guess that beats eating cat food. LOL I've seen people (friends, co-workers, associates, etc.) constantly getting hit with malware, spyware, viruses, etc., and someone might tell them "Use FireFox, it's safer than IE" or some other rubbish like that, so the people switch and continue to have problems simply because they practice BAD surfing habits, refuse to learn basic computer security, etc. It's analogous to telling someone, "You need stronger locks on your doors" without telling them to close and lock their Windows (pun intended). ;-) The same thing happens with the Mac commercials and simply put, if the user does not practice basic security, there is nothing anyone can do to protect them. Certainly, hackers spend most of their time going after Microsoft, Windows, IE, etc., since they are the Goliath but ALL of those other computer operating systems, browsers, software, etc. are just and possibly even more vulnerable. What the supporters of these other options do not realize is that every time they promote their choice, they are making their choice more visible to hackers. FireFox and Apple are both seeing this. As they increase their market share, they are also under more and more attacks by hackers. Yes, you can use a more obscure browser like Opera or Chrome, or a more obscure computer OS like Mac's have, and you may feel less at risk, simply because the hackers may not spend as much time going after those browsers and OS, but you ARE NOT SAFE. You still have to practice safe surfing and have adequate computer security, meaning a good firewall (not the Windows firewall), good anti-virus and a couple of good anti-malware/ spyware programs. All of these are available for FREE so there simply is NO REASON for everyone to not have them. Folks that choose to surf the net unprotected WILL get infected and infested and then their computers are used as zombies in a bot-net to create even more havoc for the rest of us. Even Apple is shipping their latest OS, Snow Leopard, with built in security software as they are seeing themselves under more and more web-based attacks. Like with irresponsible people having babies, I wish the Guv'ment would pass a law that says you have to be trained and licensed to have babies and/or using a computer on the net, instead of wasting our tax dollars on all the other crap that the Guv'ment does. Maybe ACORN could offer these services with more Guv'ment Grants... but I think they're too busy setting folks up with brothels right now. LOL Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com [mailto:AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com] On Behalf Of harry perry Sent: Sunday, September 13, 2009 2:22 AM To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Login issues/Opera For quite some time I've had a problem with my computer. It would get so slow I had to reboot as much as 3 times in half an hour. I was running Firefox. I switched to Opera and it made all the difference in the world. The computer is running like it was knew and with Opera's "speed dial" option I bypassed all the password B.S. You should really try it . It speeds up your computer significantly. Harry

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 43429	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 9/13/2009
Subject: Re: Molly and Salt.

Mollies are not really schooling fish like some other fish, like the neon tetras that you mentioned. They may prefer to be in groups, or they may do fine singly, but that's not the same as a schooling fish the swim in a synchronous group and usually need at least six of the same species to form a school. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of fishdudeut Sent: Sunday, September 13, 2009 5:11 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Molly and Salt. Another Question about Mollies. Can they be mixed? I know with tetras if you want a 6 of them they need to all be neons or what ever. Can you mix mollies like Sailfin Molly and Lyretail Molly or should they be keep to the same type and what about colors should they be the same as well?

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 43430	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 9/13/2009
Subject: Re: Molly and Salt.

To keep the strains pure, or, if you have wild mollies, i.e. those not found in stores, do not mix the different types and/or species. There is a good probability they will interbreed, especially the different types that you find in the stores. With mollies, as with pretty much all livebearers (there are a few exceptions), you should keep at least trios. That means you get two females for every male. In fact, since the males can drive the females relentlessly, the more females you have per male, the better off your females will be. \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of fishdudeut Sent: Sunday, September 13, 2009 6:11 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Molly and Salt. Another Question about Mollies. Can they be mixed? I know with tetras if you want a 6 of them they need to all be neons or what ever. Can you mix mollies like Sailfin Molly and Lyretail Molly or should they be keep to the same type and what about colors should they be the same as well?

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 43431	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 9/13/2009
Subject: Re: Login issues/Opera/Lenny

I really do not know the history of the terms, but most of the people I talk with in this area use asynchronous rather than asymmetric, though the latter rolls off the tongue better. \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Lenny V. aka GoldLenny Sent: Sunday, September 13, 2009 8:21 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Login issues/Opera/Lenny \\Steve// Do you know why the phone companies dropped the A from ADSL? Was it simply for marketing purposes... not that very many people know what DSL means either. I know when the phone companies first started selling internet service, it was called ADSL (Asymmetric Digital Subscriber Line) and eventually changed to DSL which I know it's not truly DSL since the lines are not dedicated copper lines but rather where the internet runs along side the phone signals. I'm guessing Asynchronous and Asymmetric are synonymous? Wow.. some big words getting thrown around here. LOL Here's a page of synonyms of asymmetric but asynchronous is not listed, even as a word, in a Reference.com search but does show up on Synonym.com. http://thesaurus.reference.com/browse/asymmetrical http://thesaurus.reference.com/browse/asynchronous (nothing found and they make suggestions) http://www.synonym.com/synonyms/asynchronous/ (does show it as a word and some synonyms) Here's a WiseGeek article about ADSL/DSL. http://www.wisegeek.com/what-is-the-difference-between-dsl-and-adsl.htm Or, did you use asynchronous when asymmetric should have been used? To me, they sound like they could be used synonymously but maybe not. I didn't realize there might have been an error until I read the WiseGeek.com article and saw asymmetric as the original word that the phone companies used. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Steve Szabo Sent: Sunday, September 13, 2009 3:26 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Login issues/Opera/Lenny I have a business account at home, because I need a static IP address, and that runs me $99/month. I get 20Mb down and 5Mb up. At the office we have a DSL connection and a synchronous 10Mb connection with a data center basically across the hall from us. We use both lines for different purposes. The DSL is going to be replaced shortly with a FiOS connection. The 10Mb connection is basically free for us, though we do occasionally do some work for the data center for which we do not charge. Since the work is assigned to someone who has some downtime (i.e. not scheduled for a client), it is "free" work that does not take from our business. This would be a very expensive line if we had to actually pay for it. If you doubt me, look at the cost for synchronous lines (as opposed to the asynchronous lines that everyone has from their ISP). \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Lenny V. aka GoldLenny Sent: Sunday, September 13, 2009 3:27 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Login issues/Opera/Lenny No. I pay for my internet but have a wireless router so the signal travels to a couple of my neighbors homes and set them up with a WPA security key, so they can log into my wireless internet signal, so my neighbor whom I am letting use one of my old computers with a USB wireless modem can pick up my wireless router signal and access the internet for free. I only pay $19.95 a month for DSL service so I don't worry about collecting $5.00 from each of the ones that I let use my service. On a side note, I bet there are still some dial-up services that are free, although there will likely be banner ads that show up on every webpage, besides the other ads that show up. I know K-Mart had this service called BlueLight.com years ago and NetZero also had this service, thus their name, NetZero. I know one of my neighbors told me a year or so ago that they still used the free NetZero dial-up service. I don't know if I would ever want to go back to dial-up service. My DSL service is adequate for me since I do not download a music or movies, although I do watch them on HULU, YouTube Movies, etc. I just press the pause button and let the video load up for a little while before playing so there is no lag when I start watching the program. Cox cable is now offering cable internet for $19.95 a month with their digital cable service but I don't want to pay the extra money for digital cable so I'll stay with my DSL for now. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of harry perry Sent: Sunday, September 13, 2009 1:56 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Login issues/Opera/Lenny are still amazed they can do all of this "Internet stuff" without having to   pay anything or even be connected to anything. Lenny, you have access to the Internet for free?. How did you do that?. Harry  --- On Sun, 9/13/09, Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@...> wrote: From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@...> Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Login issues/Opera To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Date: Sunday, September 13, 2009, 4:30 AM My vast experience with computer users, although not as vast as \\Steve's// and maybe others, has shown that simply changing browsers does not usually solve computer problems. I'm glad it's working in your case but for the dozens of people that I've come across who were told to switch from IE to FF or Opera or Chrome, etc., that simply does not solve the problem since the problem is generally a PICNIC problem... not a computer problem. BTW, PICNIC means Problem In Chair, Not In Computer. In your case, I believe your computer is older so you do have to pick and choose which software you run as some will certainly use up more than others. I was just reading a post in one of the computer tech groups I subscribe to and he showed that FireFox was using twice as much of his computer's resources than IE8. I find that IE8 is very reliable to use, even on my oldest computer with only 384MB of RAM and a 16GB Hard Drive... to give folks an idea of how old it is. It actually only had 256MB of RAM but I had an extra 128MB stick that matched so I threw it in. I know, I should have added a matching 256MB stick but I didn't want to spend any money on this computer. That extra 128MB RAM stick made it noticeably faster for my elderly neighbor who uses that computer. I also have them running off of my wireless network and they are still amazed they can do all of this "internet stuff" without having to pay anything or even be connected to anything. LOL I even having them watching missed TV shows on HULU now... "turning their brains into mush, because we're aliens and that's how we roll!" They're thinking about turning off their cable to save some money now... I guess that beats eating cat food. LOL I've seen people (friends, co-workers, associates, etc.) constantly getting hit with malware, spyware, viruses, etc., and someone might tell them "Use FireFox, it's safer than IE" or some other rubbish like that, so the people switch and continue to have problems simply because they practice BAD surfing habits, refuse to learn basic computer security, etc. It's analogous to telling someone, "You need stronger locks on your doors" without telling them to close and lock their Windows (pun intended). ;-) The same thing happens with the Mac commercials and simply put, if the user does not practice basic security, there is nothing anyone can do to protect them. Certainly, hackers spend most of their time going after Microsoft, Windows, IE, etc., since they are the Goliath but ALL of those other computer operating systems, browsers, software, etc. are just and possibly even more vulnerable. What the supporters of these other options do not realize is that every time they promote their choice, they are making their choice more visible to hackers. FireFox and Apple are both seeing this. As they increase their market share, they are also under more and more attacks by hackers. Yes, you can use a more obscure browser like Opera or Chrome, or a more obscure computer OS like Mac's have, and you may feel less at risk, simply because the hackers may not spend as much time going after those browsers and OS, but you ARE NOT SAFE. You still have to practice safe surfing and have adequate computer security, meaning a good firewall (not the Windows firewall), good anti-virus and a couple of good anti-malware/ spyware programs. All of these are available for FREE so there simply is NO REASON for everyone to not have them. Folks that choose to surf the net unprotected WILL get infected and infested and then their computers are used as zombies in a bot-net to create even more havoc for the rest of us. Even Apple is shipping their latest OS, Snow Leopard, with built in security software as they are seeing themselves under more and more web-based attacks. Like with irresponsible people having babies, I wish the Guv'ment would pass a law that says you have to be trained and licensed to have babies and/or using a computer on the net, instead of wasting our tax dollars on all the other crap that the Guv'ment does. Maybe ACORN could offer these services with more Guv'ment Grants... but I think they're too busy setting folks up with brothels right now. LOL Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com [mailto:AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com] On Behalf Of harry perry Sent: Sunday, September 13, 2009 2:22 AM To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Login issues/Opera For quite some time I've had a problem with my computer. It would get so slow I had to reboot as much as 3 times in half an hour. I was running Firefox. I switched to Opera and it made all the difference in the world. The computer is running like it was knew and with Opera's "speed dial" option I bypassed all the password B.S. You should really try it . It speeds up your computer significantly. Harry

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 43432	From: kuradi8	Date: 9/14/2009
Subject: Re: Login issues/Opera

Firefox used to hang for me too. It would drive up the CPU to 100% and slow things to a snail's pace. I'd have to cancel the task from the manager and try again. Not too long afterward, my HDD crashed and burned. Related? Coincidence? I don't know. But make sure your pictures and other important files are backed up on external media. Worst case scenario, you've saved your precious data. Best case scenario, you've saved them for "no reason." ~Kai --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, harry perry <harryfisherman@...> wrote: > > Did you use Task manager to check to see what was eating your CPU cycles prior to restarting? > Yes it was Firefox eating it up. It was the latest edition of Firefox but in combination with Yahoo mail it was really slow. > > I found a significantly different situation with Opera. > At first I hated the speed dial option but when I got used to it I found I could go directly from my desktop to any site including Yahoo mail without the passwords hassel. > My wife and I are the only ones using this computer so we don't need all the password protection. > Harry > > > --- On Sun, 9/13/09, Steve Szabo <steve@...> wrote: > > From: Steve Szabo <steve@...> > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Login issues/Opera > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Date: Sunday, September 13, 2009, 9:34 AM > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Harry, > > > > You do not give enough information here to make a valid conclusion. I've not yet seen a machine where Firefox was a problem in and of itself. I have seen certain add-ins give problems in certain configurations, but not across the board. There were a few versions that suffered from memory leaks, but that seems to have been resolved in the last few versions released. This, however, does not seem to be your problem since you say you have had to reboot several times within a half hour span. > > > > Did you use Task manager to check to see what was eating your CPU cycles prior to restarting? > > > > The only problem I run into with Firefox is with those sites that are designed for IE specifically. They will either not display correctly or not at all. > > > > \\Steve// > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com [mailto:AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com] On Behalf Of harry perry > > Sent: Sunday, September 13, 2009 3:22 AM > > To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com > > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Login issues/Opera > > > > For quite some time I've had a problem with my computer. It would get so slow I had to reboot as much as 3 times in half an hour. I was running Firefox. I switched to Opera and it made all the difference in the world. The computer is running like it was knew and with Opera's "speed dial" option I bypassed all the password B.S. You should really try it . It speeds up your computer significantly. > > Harry > > > > --- On Sun, 9/13/09, Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@gmail. com> wrote: > > > > From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@gmail. com> > > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Y! Alert: Yahoo! Groups Blog - Login issues for Firefox users > > To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com > > Date: Sunday, September 13, 2009, 2:40 AM > > > > They added an update to the blog, based on the comments they were getting... > > > > "UPDATE: In the comments below we've noticed that some of you are running > > into this issue with IE and Opera. If this is the case, please report it to > > > > Customer Care > > http://help. yahoo.com/ l/us/yahoo/ groups/original/ members/forms/ general.html > > and include your browser, your browser's version, and your operating system > > so we can better track down the issue." > > > > I haven't done this since I figure hundreds/thousands of others have already > > done so. > > > > I'm not sure why Yahoo Groups is trying to blame this on browsers, rather > > than admit it's their issue. Here's the top four comments out of 44. > > > > Glen Swift said, > > September 11, 2009 @ 11:21 pm > > > > Don't blame Firefox. I use Internet Explorer (and always have) and tonight > > I've had to log in at least eight separate times, for no good reason, though > > mainly when I'm trying to reply to a message or use the back button to > > return to the list of messages from the message I just finished reading. > > > > rik said, > > September 12, 2009 @ 3:24 am > > > > Firefox 2 on XP as well, seems more a Yahoo problem rather than browser > > > > Deborah S. said, > > September 12, 2009 @ 3:25 am > > > > I also use Intnet Explorer (and always have), but now I have this problem > > too. Mostly when switching between my e-gtroups, and with no good reason > > since I log in daily. And now, more than the log in problem.. Seems that I > > cannot reply to messages in my groups via the web page (which I have almost > > always done, I rarely reply via e-mail). When I try to reply, I get a notice > > that the message (number xxxx) cannot be retrieved. THis is very > > frustrating, this is NEW problem, and, again, it's not Firefox. I use > > Interntet Explorer and no other broweser. Hope you can solve this, soon. > > > > Brent said, > > September 12, 2009 @ 4:25 am > > > > I am having the same problem on IE8 and Chrome. I also had Yahoo Groups > > continually ask for my password on my iPhone. > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com > > (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right > > side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com [mailto:AquaticLife @ yahoogroups. com] On > > Behalf Of Steve Szabo > > Sent: Saturday, September 12, 2009 9:40 PM > > To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com > > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Y! Alert: Yahoo! Groups Blog - Login issues for > > > > Firefox users > > I have had no problems logging in with both Firefox 3.5.2 or, now, 3.5.3. On > > the other hand, my lady has had a problem logging in with one of the lists > > that she belongs to, but not with any of the lists she owns with 3.5.2, but > > she has not complained since 3.5.3 was released, though I do not know if she > > has upgraded to it. > > > > \\Steve// > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com [mailto:AquaticLife @ yahoogroups. com] > > On Behalf Of Lenny V. aka GoldLenny > > Sent: Saturday, September 12, 2009 7:17 PM > > To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com > > Subject: [AquaticLife] Y! Alert: Yahoo! Groups Blog - Login issues for > > > > Firefox users > > AND IE8 USERS TOO.... at least there have been for me. I just figured it > > was one of Yahoo's typical server glitches that come and go. Read more > > below my sig. > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com (Links to any articles referenced > > in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and > > also under Archives by Year, > > Month) > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: Yahoo! Alerts [mailto:alerts@ yahoo- inc.com] > > Sent: Saturday, September 12, 2009 5:01 PM > > To: GoldLenny@gmail. com > > Subject: Y! Alert: Yahoo! Groups Blog > > > > Login issues for Firefox users (AND IE8 USERS TOO... AT LEAST FOR LENNY) > > http://www.ygroupsb log.com > > http://www.ygroupsb log.com/blog/ 2009/09/11/ login-issues- for-firefox- users/ > > Several of you have reported that when visiting your groups, you're > > repeatedly asked to enter your password in order for you to proceed. > > While > > this is the expected behavior if you haven't logged in two weeks, or, > > are > > attempting to add users to your group, this should not be happening when > > you're simply trying to access a group or post a message through the > > web. We > > are currently investigating this issue, but believe that users who > > recently > > upgraded to the newest version of Firefox (3.5.2 or 3.5.3) are impacted > > by > > this problem. Until the issue is resolved, we suggest using a different > > browser for the time-being (ex: Internet Explorer, Safari, or Opera). > > Or, > > you may participate in your groups by posting messages via email. We'll > > be > > sure to update you all here as soon as we have more information and/or > > the > > issue is resolved. Thanks for your patience! > > > > Melissa Daniels > > Yahoo! Community Manager > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 43433	From: greychildren	Date: 9/14/2009
Subject: fish keeping software

I needed to know were i can find some free software to put in aquarium maintenance and that kind of stuff. Thank you

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 43434	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 9/14/2009
Subject: Re: fish keeping software

See my latest blog article that I started a couple of weeks ago. I started compiling software and spreadsheets and have links to them in that blog article. The top two are NOT free but the rest of them are. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of greychildren Sent: Monday, September 14, 2009 2:12 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] fish keeping software I needed to know were i can find some free software to put in aquarium maintenance and that kind of stuff. Thank you ------------------------------------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the home page. Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com to receive the digest, which includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com for the No E-Mail option where you will still be able to read messages on the group and post replies. Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com to receive individual e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 43435	From: bill 1433	Date: 9/14/2009
Subject: Re: fish keeping software

If you have or are running Microsoft Office you really don't need anything else.  I use an Excel Spread Sheet for fish purchases, water changes and filter maintenance, works great and I don't lose any information only fish! For additional notes or sometimes cutting and pasting "words of wisdom from this list" I use MS Word as a dated log.   Bill --- On Mon, 9/14/09, greychildren <greychildren@...> wrote: From: greychildren <greychildren@...> Subject: [AquaticLife] fish keeping software To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Date: Monday, September 14, 2009, 3:11 PM I needed to know were i can find some free software to put in aquarium maintenance and that kind of stuff. Thank you ------------------------------------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the home page.  Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com to receive the digest, which includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com for the No E-Mail option where you will still be able to read messages on the group and post replies. Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com to receive individual e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 43436	From: biG poppa	Date: 9/14/2009
Subject: Re: fish keeping software

thanq Lenny will look into it.. --- On Mon, 9/14/09, Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@...> wrote: From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@...> Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] fish keeping software To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Date: Monday, September 14, 2009, 3:34 PM   See my latest blog article that I started a couple of weeks ago. I started compiling software and spreadsheets and have links to them in that blog article. The top two are NOT free but the rest of them are. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com [mailto:AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com] On Behalf Of greychildren Sent: Monday, September 14, 2009 2:12 PM To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com Subject: [AquaticLife] fish keeping software I needed to know were i can find some free software to put in aquarium maintenance and that kind of stuff. Thank you ------------ --------- --------- ------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the home page. Or e-mail aquaticlife- digest@yahoogrou ps.com to receive the digest, which includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email Or email aquaticlife- nomail@yahoogrou ps.com for the No E-Mail option where you will still be able to read messages on the group and post replies. Or email aquaticlife- normal@yahoogrou ps.com to receive individual e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 43437	From: biG poppa	Date: 9/14/2009
Subject: Re: fish keeping software

That sounds like a good idea..thanQ Bill --- On Mon, 9/14/09, bill 1433 <warrenprint@...> wrote: From: bill 1433 <warrenprint@...> Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] fish keeping software To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Date: Monday, September 14, 2009, 4:40 PM   If you have or are running Microsoft Office you really don't need anything else.  I use an Excel Spread Sheet for fish purchases, water changes and filter maintenance, works great and I don't lose any information only fish! For additional notes or sometimes cutting and pasting "words of wisdom from this list" I use MS Word as a dated log.   Bill --- On Mon, 9/14/09, greychildren <greychildren@ yahoo.com> wrote: From: greychildren <greychildren@ yahoo.com> Subject: [AquaticLife] fish keeping software To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com Date: Monday, September 14, 2009, 3:11 PM I needed to know were i can find some free software to put in aquarium maintenance and that kind of stuff. Thank you ------------ --------- --------- ------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the home page.  Or e-mail aquaticlife- digest@yahoogrou ps.com to receive the digest, which includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email Or email aquaticlife- nomail@yahoogrou ps.com for the No E-Mail option where you will still be able to read messages on the group and post replies. Or email aquaticlife- normal@yahoogrou ps.com to receive individual e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 43438	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 9/14/2009
Subject: Re: fish keeping software

Also if you don't have microsoft office, Google has a new thing offered called, "Google Docs", you just need to sign up for a free gmail account to use it. You can access it at spreadsheets.google.com Amber biG poppa wrote: > > > That sounds like a good idea..thanQ Bill > > --- On Mon, 9/14/09, bill 1433 <warrenprint@... > <mailto:warrenprint%40yahoo.com>> wrote: > > From: bill 1433 <warrenprint@... <mailto:warrenprint%40yahoo.com>> > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] fish keeping software > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Date: Monday, September 14, 2009, 4:40 PM > > > > If you have or are running Microsoft Office you really don't need > > anything else. I use an Excel Spread Sheet for fish purchases, > > water changes and filter maintenance, works great and I don't lose > > any information only fish! For additional notes or sometimes cutting > and pasting "words of wisdom from this list" I use MS Word as a dated log. > > > > Bill > > --- On Mon, 9/14/09, greychildren <greychildren@ yahoo.com> wrote: > > From: greychildren <greychildren@ yahoo.com> > > Subject: [AquaticLife] fish keeping software > > To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com > > Date: Monday, September 14, 2009, 3:11 PM > > I needed to know were i can find some free software to put in aquarium > maintenance and that kind of stuff. Thank you > > ------------ --------- --------- ------ > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. > > ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> > > PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT > important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message > MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- > > <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. > > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. > > If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of unsubscribing, > you can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My > Membership" on the home page. > > Or e-mail aquaticlife- digest@yahoogrou ps.com to receive the digest, > which includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email > > Or email aquaticlife- nomail@yahoogrou ps.com for the No E-Mail option > where you will still be able to read messages on the group and post > replies. > > Or email aquaticlife- normal@yahoogrou ps.com to receive individual > e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 43439	From: Menagerie_Manager	Date: 9/14/2009
Subject: Re: fish keeping software

Also, Open Office ( http://www.openoffice.org/ ) will do everything Microsoft Works does for free and it will open any Microsoft works document (excel, Word, etc). DebR and the Three Goldfish (CB, Lucille, and Raven) ----- Original Message ----- From: "Amber Berglund" <arberglund@...> To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Monday, September 14, 2009 6:41 PM Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] fish keeping software > Also if you don't have microsoft office, Google has a new thing offered > called, "Google Docs", you just need to sign up for a free gmail account > to use it. > You can access it at spreadsheets.google.com > > Amber > > biG poppa wrote: >> >> >> That sounds like a good idea..thanQ Bill >> >> --- On Mon, 9/14/09, bill 1433 <warrenprint@... >> <mailto:warrenprint%40yahoo.com>> wrote: >> >> From: bill 1433 <warrenprint@... <mailto:warrenprint%40yahoo.com>> >> Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] fish keeping software >> To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> >> Date: Monday, September 14, 2009, 4:40 PM >> >> >> >> If you have or are running Microsoft Office you really don't need >> >> anything else. I use an Excel Spread Sheet for fish purchases, >> >> water changes and filter maintenance, works great and I don't lose >> >> any information only fish! For additional notes or sometimes cutting >> and pasting "words of wisdom from this list" I use MS Word as a dated >> log. >> >> >> >> Bill >> >> --- On Mon, 9/14/09, greychildren <greychildren@ yahoo.com> wrote: >> >> From: greychildren <greychildren@ yahoo.com> >> >> Subject: [AquaticLife] fish keeping software >> >> To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com >> >> Date: Monday, September 14, 2009, 3:11 PM >> >> I needed to know were i can find some free software to put in aquarium >> maintenance and that kind of stuff. Thank you >> >> ------------ --------- --------- ------ >> >> Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank >> You. >> >> ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> >> >> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT >> important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message >> MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- >> >> <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. >> >> We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. >> >> If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of unsubscribing, >> you can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My >> Membership" on the home page. >> >> Or e-mail aquaticlife- digest@yahoogrou ps.com to receive the digest, >> which includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email >> >> Or email aquaticlife- nomail@yahoogrou ps.com for the No E-Mail option >> where you will still be able to read messages on the group and post >> replies. >> >> Or email aquaticlife- normal@yahoogrou ps.com to receive individual >> e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] >> >> > > > ------------------------------------ > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. > ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> > PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to > the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the > SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- > <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. > > If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of unsubscribing, you > can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the > home page. > > Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com to receive the digest, which > includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email > > Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com for the No E-Mail option where > you will still be able to read messages on the group and post replies. > > Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com to receive individual > e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links > > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 43440	From: Menagerie_Manager	Date: 9/14/2009
Subject: Re: fish keeping software

Also, Open Office ( http://www.openoffice.org/ ) will do everything Microsoft Works does for free and it will open any Microsoft works document (excel, Word, etc). DebR and the Three Goldfish (CB, Lucille, and Raven) ----- Original Message ----- From: "Amber Berglund" <arberglund@...> To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Monday, September 14, 2009 6:41 PM Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] fish keeping software > Also if you don't have microsoft office, Google has a new thing offered > called, "Google Docs", you just need to sign up for a free gmail account > to use it. > You can access it at spreadsheets.google.com > > Amber >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 43441	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 9/14/2009
Subject: Re: fish keeping software

It does not have an e-mail client integrated into it, you must find one on your own. Depending on the version of Microsoft Office one may use, there may be other programs missing as well that one may use on a regular basis. For instance, I rarely use Publisher, but milady uses it quite often. Also, I am given to understand that reading MS Office files is still problematic, but I cannot say that from experience. It has been a while since I played with it. \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Menagerie_Manager Sent: Monday, September 14, 2009 6:57 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] fish keeping software Also, Open Office ( http://www.openoffice.org/ ) will do everything Microsoft Works does for free and it will open any Microsoft works document (excel, Word, etc). DebR and the Three Goldfish (CB, Lucille, and Raven) ----- Original Message ----- From: "Amber Berglund" <arberglund@...> To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Monday, September 14, 2009 6:41 PM Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] fish keeping software > Also if you don't have microsoft office, Google has a new thing offered > called, "Google Docs", you just need to sign up for a free gmail account > to use it. > You can access it at spreadsheets.google.com > > Amber > > biG poppa wrote: >> >> >> That sounds like a good idea..thanQ Bill >> >> --- On Mon, 9/14/09, bill 1433 <warrenprint@... >> <mailto:warrenprint%40yahoo.com>> wrote: >> >> From: bill 1433 <warrenprint@... <mailto:warrenprint%40yahoo.com>> >> Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] fish keeping software >> To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> >> Date: Monday, September 14, 2009, 4:40 PM >> >> >> >> If you have or are running Microsoft Office you really don't need >> >> anything else. I use an Excel Spread Sheet for fish purchases, >> >> water changes and filter maintenance, works great and I don't lose >> >> any information only fish! For additional notes or sometimes cutting >> and pasting "words of wisdom from this list" I use MS Word as a dated >> log. >> >> >> >> Bill >> >> --- On Mon, 9/14/09, greychildren <greychildren@ yahoo.com> wrote: >> >> From: greychildren <greychildren@ yahoo.com> >> >> Subject: [AquaticLife] fish keeping software >> >> To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com >> >> Date: Monday, September 14, 2009, 3:11 PM >> >> I needed to know were i can find some free software to put in aquarium >> maintenance and that kind of stuff. Thank you >>

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 43442	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 9/14/2009
Subject: National Aquatic Animal Health Plan for the United States; October 2

There is a document of regulations that is in the comment period that may affect the fish farmers that supply us with fish, and, as a result, affect us. The document can be found at http://www.regulations.gov/search/Regs/home.html#docketDetail?R=APHIS-20 08-0096 http://tinyurl.com/nguxfn Currently, the first document gives you some information about the report and gives web addresses to send comments to. The second item is a comment, the third, the report itself, and the fourth, another comment. \\Steve//

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 43443	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 9/14/2009
Subject: Four-eyed fish born in aquarium - Telegraph

Don't know why they are making a big deal of this. _Anableps_ are easy to breed, if you get the right mix of males and females. To put it basically, the fish are either right-handed or left-handed. The males gonopodium will only bend one way or the other, and he must find a female who can accommodate him, thus needing a female that can accept a rightie or leftie for fertilization to occur. http://www.telegraph.co.uk/earth/wildlife/6188203/Four-eyed-fish-born-in -aquarium.html http://tinyurl.com/ouhdx3 \\Steve//

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 43444	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 9/15/2009
Subject: GARDEN SNAKES CAN BE DANGEROUS FOR POND AND WATER GARDEN KEEPERS

Garden snakes can be dangerous for pond and water garden keepers. I didn't think twice about this tiny fellow on my baby boxwood until I got this from one of the Pond groups that I belong to. GARDEN SNAKES CAN BE DANGEROUS... Snakes also known as Garter Snakes (Thamnophissirtalis) can be dangerous. Yes, grass snakes, not rattlesnakes. Here's why. A couple in Sweetwater, Texas, had a lot of potted plants. During a recent cold spell, the wife was bringing a lot of them indoors to protect them from a possible freeze. It turned out that a little green garden grass snake was hidden in one of the plants. When it had warmed up, it slithered out and the wife saw it go under the sofa. She let out a very loud scream. The husband (who was taking a shower) ran out into the living room naked to see what the problem was. She told him there was a snake under the sofa. He got down on the floor on his hands and knees to look for it. About that time the family dog came and cold-nosed him on the behind. He thought the snake had bitten him, so he screamed and fell over on the floor. His wife thought he had had a heart attack, so she covered him up, told him to lie still and called an ambulance. The attendants rushed in, would not listen to his protests, loaded him on the stretcher, and started carrying him out. About that time, the snake came out from under the sofa and the Emergency Medical Technician saw it and dropped his end of the stretcher. That's when the man broke his leg and why he is still in the hospital. The wife still had the problem of the snake in the house, so she called on a neighbor who volunteered to capture the snake. He armed himself with a rolled-up newspaper and began poking under the couch. Soon he decided it was gone and told the woman, who sat down on the sofa in relief. But while relaxing, her hand dangled in between the cushions, where she felt the snake wriggling around. She screamed and fainted, the snake rushed back under the sofa. The neighbor man, seeing her lying there passed out, tried to use CPR to revive her. The neighbor's wife, who had just returned from shopping at the grocery store, saw her husband's mouth on the woman's mouth and slammed her husband in the back of the head with a bag of canned goods, knocking him out and cutting his scalp to a point where it needed stitches. The noise woke the woman from her dead faint and she saw her neighbor lying on the floor with his wife bending over him, so she assumed that the snake had bitten him. She went to the kitchen and got a small bottle of whiskey, and began pouring it down the man's throat. By now, the police had arrived. Breathe here... They saw the unconscious man, smelled the whiskey, and assumed that a drunken fight had occurred. They were about to arrest them all, when the women tried to explain how it all happened over a little garden snake! The police called an ambulance, which took away the neighbor and his sobbing wife. Now, the little snake again crawled out from under the sofa and one of the policemen drew his gun and fired at it. He missed the snake and hit the leg of the end table. The table fell over, the lamp on it shattered and, as the bulb broke, it started a fire in the drapes. The other policeman tried to beat out the flames, and fell through the window into the yard on top of the family dog who, startled, jumped out and raced into the street, where an oncoming car swerved to avoid it and smashed into the parked police car. Meanwhile, neighbors saw the burning drapes and called in the fire department. The firemen had started raising the fire ladder when they were halfway down the street. The rising ladder tore out the overhead wires, put out the power, and disconnected the telephones in a ten-square city block area (but they did get the house fire out). Time passed! Both men were discharged from the hospital, the house was repaired, the dog came home, the police acquired a new car and all was right with their world. A while later they were watching TV and the weatherman announced a cold snap for that night. The wife asked her husband if he thought they should bring in their plants for the night. And that's when he shot her.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 43445	From: sevenspringss@wmconnect.com	Date: 9/15/2009
Subject: Re: GARDEN SNAKES CAN BE DANGEROUS FOR POND AND WATER GARDEN KE...

I LOVED it Lenny -- I laughed all the way through it. That's what we need once in a while, some humor to freshen up the air. Keep 'em coming, and thanks for a great read (LOL)! Ray [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 43446	From: lisa_lawless2004	Date: 9/15/2009
Subject: BN catfish not growing

I have a question about my bristle nose cat fish. I've had it for a couple of months. But it doesn't seem to be growing at all. How big are they supposed to get? And why is it not growing? Thanks Lisa

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 43447	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 9/15/2009
Subject: Re: GARDEN SNAKES CAN BE DANGEROUS FOR POND AND WATER GARDEN KE...

Yep. I LOL'ed too, which is why I had to forward it to the group. That one's going on my Fish Jokes blog page even though it's not really about fish... but close enough. And it was clean enough to forward too. I get ton's of emailed jokes but many cannot passed along. Are you on one of the group member's joke list? I don't want to mention his name but he might come forward. LOL Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of sevenspringss@... Sent: Tuesday, September 15, 2009 4:24 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] GARDEN SNAKES CAN BE DANGEROUS FOR POND AND WATER GARDEN KE... I LOVED it Lenny -- I laughed all the way through it. That's what we need once in a while, some humor to freshen up the air. Keep 'em coming, and thanks for a great read (LOL)! Ray [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 43448	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 9/15/2009
Subject: Re: BN catfish not growing

They only grow to around 5" to 6" in a proper sized, properly stocked tank. They also need more than just algae. What else are you feeding it? If you have lots of other fish, you might need to increase the frequency of PWC's as the hormone levels can be getting too high which will cause fish to get stunted. This is even more important for baby and juvi fish when they should be growing the most as a percentage. Pleco's generally do grow a little slower than some other fish but you should see some growth. Did you actually measure it against some decorations or anything with pictures so you can take more pictures for comparison? It's hard to tell just by looking to see if some fish are growing as we see them every day and get used to their increased size. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of lisa_lawless2004 Sent: Tuesday, September 15, 2009 4:49 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] BN catfish not growing I have a question about my bristle nose cat fish. I've had it for a couple of months. But it doesn't seem to be growing at all. How big are they supposed to get? And why is it not growing? Thanks Lisa

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 43449	From: sevenspringss@wmconnect.com	Date: 9/15/2009
Subject: Re: GARDEN SNAKES CAN BE DANGEROUS FOR POND AND WATER GARDEN KE...

Lenny, Well you picked a good one to forward to the group. We need some levity around here once in a while, if only for a bit of diversity. I don't know how someone can think up something so extensive with a laugh in just about every continuing sentence, but it sure takes a good imagination. No, I'm not on this member's joke list -- didn't even know we had a member with a joke list, but I'll be content with your receiving them and passing along the good ones. Oh yeah, FISH, to keep it on topic <g>. Ray [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 43450	From: sandi turner	Date: 9/15/2009
Subject: Re: GARDEN SNAKES CAN BE DANGEROUS FOR POND AND WATER GARDEN KEEPERS

That one was worth forwarding!!! I don't forward many myself cause so many people get mad at me for it but I did that one!!! Thanks for the laugh Lenny!!! Sandi --- On Tue, 9/15/09, Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@...> wrote: From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@...> Subject: [AquaticLife] GARDEN SNAKES CAN BE DANGEROUS FOR POND AND WATER GARDEN KEEPERS To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Date: Tuesday, September 15, 2009, 4:20 AM   Garden snakes can be dangerous for pond and water garden keepers. I didn't think twice about this tiny fellow on my baby boxwood until I got this from one of the Pond groups that I belong to. GARDEN SNAKES CAN BE DANGEROUS... Snakes also known as Garter Snakes (Thamnophissirtalis ) can be dangerous. Yes, grass snakes, not rattlesnakes. Here's why. A couple in Sweetwater, Texas, had a lot of potted plants. During a recent cold spell, the wife was bringing a lot of them indoors to protect them from a possible freeze. It turned out that a little green garden grass snake was hidden in one of the plants. When it had warmed up, it slithered out and the wife saw it go under the sofa. She let out a very loud scream. The husband (who was taking a shower) ran out into the living room naked to see what the problem was. She told him there was a snake under the sofa. He got down on the floor on his hands and knees to look for it. About that time the family dog came and cold-nosed him on the behind. He thought the snake had bitten him, so he screamed and fell over on the floor. His wife thought he had had a heart attack, so she covered him up, told him to lie still and called an ambulance. The attendants rushed in, would not listen to his protests, loaded him on the stretcher, and started carrying him out. About that time, the snake came out from under the sofa and the Emergency Medical Technician saw it and dropped his end of the stretcher. That's when the man broke his leg and why he is still in the hospital. The wife still had the problem of the snake in the house, so she called on a neighbor who volunteered to capture the snake. He armed himself with a rolled-up newspaper and began poking under the couch. Soon he decided it was gone and told the woman, who sat down on the sofa in relief. But while relaxing, her hand dangled in between the cushions, where she felt the snake wriggling around. She screamed and fainted, the snake rushed back under the sofa. The neighbor man, seeing her lying there passed out, tried to use CPR to revive her. The neighbor's wife, who had just returned from shopping at the grocery store, saw her husband's mouth on the woman's mouth and slammed her husband in the back of the head with a bag of canned goods, knocking him out and cutting his scalp to a point where it needed stitches. The noise woke the woman from her dead faint and she saw her neighbor lying on the floor with his wife bending over him, so she assumed that the snake had bitten him. She went to the kitchen and got a small bottle of whiskey, and began pouring it down the man's throat. By now, the police had arrived. Breathe here... They saw the unconscious man, smelled the whiskey, and assumed that a drunken fight had occurred. They were about to arrest them all, when the women tried to explain how it all happened over a little garden snake! The police called an ambulance, which took away the neighbor and his sobbing wife. Now, the little snake again crawled out from under the sofa and one of the policemen drew his gun and fired at it. He missed the snake and hit the leg of the end table. The table fell over, the lamp on it shattered and, as the bulb broke, it started a fire in the drapes. The other policeman tried to beat out the flames, and fell through the window into the yard on top of the family dog who, startled, jumped out and raced into the street, where an oncoming car swerved to avoid it and smashed into the parked police car. Meanwhile, neighbors saw the burning drapes and called in the fire department. The firemen had started raising the fire ladder when they were halfway down the street. The rising ladder tore out the overhead wires, put out the power, and disconnected the telephones in a ten-square city block area (but they did get the house fire out). Time passed! Both men were discharged from the hospital, the house was repaired, the dog came home, the police acquired a new car and all was right with their world. A while later they were watching TV and the weatherman announced a cold snap for that night. The wife asked her husband if he thought they should bring in their plants for the night. And that's when he shot her. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 43451	From: clandestine662002	Date: 9/15/2009
Subject: black belt cichlids

Does anyone know if Black Belt Cichlids are related to Severums? I just got one and the shape is very similar to Severums. Also, I am looking for ideas on what to name my Black belt, they are kind of the tough guy types... maybe a tough guy name? thanks, gail

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 43452	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 9/15/2009
Subject: Re: black belt cichlids

Well, they're both cichlids and get pretty big but they are not from the same Genus but they are *currently* from the same Family per the FishBase.org Classifications below. http://fish.mongabay.com/species/Cichlasoma_maculicauda.html (correct Genus is Vieja now) http://fishbase.org.cn/Summary/SpeciesSummary.php?id=12208 Classification - Actinopterygii | Perciformes | Cichlidae | Cichlasomatinae http://www.cichlid-forum.com/profiles/species.php?id=101 Here's the Severum profiles. http://fish.mongabay.com/species/Heros_severus.html http://fishbase.org/Summary/SpeciesSummary.php?id=3617 Classification - Actinopterygii | Perciformes | Cichlidae | Cichlasomatinae http://www.cichlid-forum.com/profiles/species.php?id=2449 I hope you have a BIGGGGGGGG tank for each of them. I think the name comes from the single "black band" on the Vieja maculicauda which would be like a "black belt" around the waist area if a fish had a waist, rather than from their martial arts skills. ;-) Bruce Lee or Chuck Norris would be appropriate names. LOL Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of clandestine662002 Sent: Tuesday, September 15, 2009 5:59 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] black belt cichlids Does anyone know if Black Belt Cichlids are related to Severums? I just got one and the shape is very similar to Severums. Also, I am looking for ideas on what to name my Black belt, they are kind of the tough guy types... maybe a tough guy name? thanks, gail

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 43453	From: Lisa Lawless	Date: 9/15/2009
Subject: Re; BN not growing

Hi Lenny.   My tank is 22gal heated at 24* and filtered with an u/g filter. There is about 18 fish in there, none over 2 ½ inch in length, except for my albino BN which is about 3 inch. 95% real plants, and 3 pieces of driftwood which I have seen the juvi and albino munching on.   They also get Tubifex worms that are disgaurded by the mid and top swimmers. Also Spirilina flakes, and sinking algae disks and pellets. Oh! and an occasional green veggie   Lisa   __________________________________________________________________________________ Find local businesses and services in your area with Yahoo!7 Local. Get started: http://local.yahoo.com.au [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 43454	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 9/15/2009
Subject: Re: Re; BN not growing

OK. It sounds like you are getting enough food to it so the next obvious thing is your stocking level. You are likely overstocked, possibly very overstocked. Lets look at what we know from this thread and then you can figure out the rest. Since a BN Pleco grows to 5"-6" long, it would need at least 10G of water volume for itself (see my blog article, "New Rules/Guidelines to replace the 1" fish-killing rule"). This means you have only 12G left over after deducting the 10G for the BN Pleco... and since you have 17 more fish, you have WAY LESS than even 1G per fish, much less 1G per (expected adult size) inch. The 1G per inch would work if all of your fish stay under 3" as adults. All you've told us is their current size but when stocking a tank, you MUST stock it based on expected adult size of the fish, not their current size. Even if you had 17 fish that only grew to 1" each, you would be considered overstocked but not by much. If each of your remaining 17 fish stay under 3" as adults but average 2" each, you would need 34G plus the 10G for the BN Pleco, meaning you are currently 200% overstocked. This will cause stunting to all of the fish but the baby fish will suffer more than fish that were already full grown before being put into an overstocked tank. A short term remedy would be doing more frequent 25% PWC's, gravel vacuuming and filter maintenance, etc., to keep their water in extra-pristine condition and the PWC's would remove/dilute the hormone levels making the fish think they are in a larger volume of water until you can get a 2nd tank, a larger tank or rehome some of the fish. Long term problems caused by overstocking, besides the stunting issue, will be added stress and health issues. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Lisa Lawless Sent: Tuesday, September 15, 2009 7:27 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Re; BN not growing Hi Lenny.   My tank is 22gal heated at 24* and filtered with an u/g filter. There is about 18 fish in there, none over 2 ½ inch in length, except for my albino BN which is about 3 inch. 95% real plants, and 3 pieces of driftwood which I have seen the juvi and albino munching on.   They also get Tubifex worms that are disgaurded by the mid and top swimmers. Also Spirilina flakes, and sinking algae disks and pellets. Oh! and an occasional green veggie   Lisa

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 43455	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 9/15/2009
Subject: Re: Y! Alert: Yahoo! Groups Blog - Login issues for Firefox users

Here's a follow-up that I got from the Yahoo Group's Blog Moderator. UPDATE - September 14, 2090 @ 3pm PT: We believe we have found the root of this problem and have fixed the issue. However, if you are still seeing this issue please leave a comment below and/or email me directly at yahoogroups[at] yahoo-inc[dot] com. In the email, please include your browser and operating system information (what version, etc.) so we can better diagnose the issue. Thanks! Several of you have reported that when visiting your groups, you're repeatedly asked to enter your password in order for you to proceed. While this is the expected behavior if you haven't logged in two weeks, or, are attempting to add users to your group, this should not be happening when you're simply trying to access a group or post a message through the web. We are currently investigating this issue, but believe that users who recently upgraded to the newest version of Firefox (3.5.2 or 3.5.3) are impacted by this problem. Additionally, users of IE 7 and 8 are also reporting problems. We are currently investigating the issue for all browsers and are working to resolve the problem as soon as possible. Until the issue is resolved, we suggest using a different browser for the time-being (some users have reported stability when using alternate browsers). Or, you may participate in your groups by posting messages via email. If you are experiencing other issues (member lists not updating, etc.) please also contact Customer Care as that is likely a separate problem. Customer Care: http://help.yahoo.com/l/us/yahoo/groups/original/members/forms/general.html We'll be sure to update you all here as soon as we have more information and/or the issue is resolved. Thanks for your patience! Melissa Daniels Yahoo! Community Manager -----Original Message----- From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny [mailto:goldlenny@...] Sent: Sunday, September 13, 2009 1:41 AM To: 'AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com' Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Y! Alert: Yahoo! Groups Blog - Login issues for Firefox users They added an update to the blog, based on the comments they were getting... "UPDATE: In the comments below we've noticed that some of you are running into this issue with IE and Opera. If this is the case, please report it to Customer Care http://help.yahoo.com/l/us/yahoo/groups/original/members/forms/general.html and include your browser, your browser's version, and your operating system so we can better track down the issue." I haven't done this since I figure hundreds/thousands of others have already done so. I'm not sure why Yahoo Groups is trying to blame this on browsers, rather than admit it's their issue. Here's the top four comments out of 44. Glen Swift said, September 11, 2009 @ 11:21 pm Don't blame Firefox. I use Internet Explorer (and always have) and tonight I've had to log in at least eight separate times, for no good reason, though mainly when I'm trying to reply to a message or use the back button to return to the list of messages from the message I just finished reading. rik said, September 12, 2009 @ 3:24 am Firefox 2 on XP as well, seems more a Yahoo problem rather than browser Deborah S. said, September 12, 2009 @ 3:25 am I also use Intnet Explorer (and always have), but now I have this problem too. Mostly when switching between my e-gtroups, and with no good reason since I log in daily. And now, more than the log in problem.. Seems that I cannot reply to messages in my groups via the web page (which I have almost always done, I rarely reply via e-mail). When I try to reply, I get a notice that the message (number xxxx) cannot be retrieved. THis is very frustrating, this is NEW problem, and, again, it's not Firefox. I use Interntet Explorer and no other broweser. Hope you can solve this, soon. Brent said, September 12, 2009 @ 4:25 am I am having the same problem on IE8 and Chrome. I also had Yahoo Groups continually ask for my password on my iPhone. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Steve Szabo Sent: Saturday, September 12, 2009 9:40 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Y! Alert: Yahoo! Groups Blog - Login issues for Firefox users I have had no problems logging in with both Firefox 3.5.2 or, now, 3.5.3. On the other hand, my lady has had a problem logging in with one of the lists that she belongs to, but not with any of the lists she owns with 3.5.2, but she has not complained since 3.5.3 was released, though I do not know if she has upgraded to it. \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Lenny V. aka GoldLenny Sent: Saturday, September 12, 2009 7:17 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Y! Alert: Yahoo! Groups Blog - Login issues for Firefox users AND IE8 USERS TOO.... at least there have been for me. I just figured it was one of Yahoo's typical server glitches that come and go. Read more below my sig. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: Yahoo! Alerts [mailto:alerts@...] Sent: Saturday, September 12, 2009 5:01 PM To: GoldLenny@... Subject: Y! Alert: Yahoo! Groups Blog Login issues for Firefox users (AND IE8 USERS TOO... AT LEAST FOR LENNY) http://www.ygroupsblog.com http://www.ygroupsblog.com/blog/2009/09/11/login-issues-for-firefox-users/ Several of you have reported that when visiting your groups, you're repeatedly asked to enter your password in order for you to proceed. While this is the expected behavior if you haven't logged in two weeks, or, are attempting to add users to your group, this should not be happening when you're simply trying to access a group or post a message through the web. We are currently investigating this issue, but believe that users who recently upgraded to the newest version of Firefox (3.5.2 or 3.5.3) are impacted by this problem. Until the issue is resolved, we suggest using a different browser for the time-being (ex: Internet Explorer, Safari, or Opera). Or, you may participate in your groups by posting messages via email. We'll be sure to update you all here as soon as we have more information and/or the issue is resolved. Thanks for your patience! Melissa Daniels Yahoo! Community Manager

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 43456	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 9/15/2009
Subject: Coral reefs create variety for aquariums

http://www.news8austin.com/content/headlines/Default.asp?ArID=252434&Sec ID=2&addvid=71039 http://tinyurl.com/q7nwtq \\Steve//

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 43457	From: sevenspringss@wmconnect.com	Date: 9/16/2009
Subject: Re: black belt cichlids

Gail, They are related, only from the stance that they are both in the same Family (Cichlidae -- or just plain "Cichlids" to us). They're only distantly related, and by that I mean their evolutionary position in the Cichlid family is not close -- although they are found quite a "distance" away from each other too. The Severum comes from South America and the Black Belt from Central America. As they grown, you'll start seeing some marked differences, such as the Severum being much more laterally compressed. Lenny offered some good names for your Black Belt Cichlid, in my opinion, I can't come up with anything better. Ray [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 43458	From: Lisa Lawless	Date: 9/16/2009
Subject: re - BN not growing

All my adult fish are no bigger then 2 ½ -3* at most, and I was conscious of the expected adult size when I got them. So yeah, I planned ahead for that. Maybe before I move next month, I should attempt to trade in some of the more common ones, -my cardinal tetras, glassfish, swordtails and dalmatian mollie- and keep the special ones. Like my female blue ram, albino BN, normal BN, and my guppies. That would leave me with a stock of roughly 1 blue ram 2 BN catfish 4 guppies. Surely 7 fish is not over stocking my tank?.   Lisa   Send instant messages to your online friends http://au.messenger.yahoo.com [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 43459	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 9/16/2009
Subject: Re: re - BN not growing

Well, even one fish could overstock a tank if the tank is not large enough. For example, a single Oscar Cichlid would not work out in your tank; neither would a single goldfish. So yes, seven fish could overstock a tank with no problem if they are not the right sized fish for the tank. I only have three fish in my 65G tank... but two are fancy goldfish and the third is a 3" Clown Pleco. Even with only those three, I have to stick to a strict weekly tank maintenance schedule to keep the water quality from deteriorating or algae from becoming a problem. With your 22G tank, the two BN Plecos (5" to 6" each), each needing around 10G each, that would come close to fully stocking a 22G tank. The Ram would certainly fill out the stocking level of the tank. How well are the BN Plecos getting along? Are they both males, females or mixed? The guppies aren't too bad compared to the above three fish, except for the preferred water parameters as the above fish like softer, more acidic waters and guppies like harder, more alkaline (higher pH) water. As far as body mass or pollution levels, four guppies aren't that bad, unless you have a mix of males and females that would be constantly breeding and causing either a lot of extra fish or a lot of protein rich food for the other fish and protein rich foods add to the bioload compared to regular foods. Four male guppies would be best so there would be no breeding and males are prettier anyhow. If you have them mixed sex, then you should have three females and one male as two on two would result in too much stress on the females from being sexually harassed by the males... and three males on one female would be fish-abuse on the female. LOL You might consider keeping the neon tetras, instead of the guppies, since neon's prefer similar water parameters to the other fish (plecos and ram) but we still do not know what your new water parameters are going to be. If you have soft, acidic water, then the plecos, ram and neon's would be best. If you have hard, alkaline water, then the guppies, mollies and swordtails would be better. At least, if you do have hard, alkaline water at the new source, with the driftwood and plants, they would help to soften the water and lower the pH, especially if the driftwood is still leaching tannins. Or you could run a little peat moss in your filter to naturally soften the water and lower the pH making the water better for the plecos, ram and neon's... but all of this is speculation since we do not know what your new water parameters are going to be like. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Lisa Lawless Sent: Wednesday, September 16, 2009 8:10 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] re - BN not growing All my adult fish are no bigger then 2 ½ -3* at most, and I was conscious of the expected adult size when I got them. So yeah, I planned ahead for that. Maybe before I move next month, I should attempt to trade in some of the more common ones, -my cardinal tetras, glassfish, swordtails and dalmatian mollie- and keep the special ones. Like my female blue ram, albino BN, normal BN, and my guppies. That would leave me with a stock of roughly 1 blue ram 2 BN catfish 4 guppies. Surely 7 fish is not over stocking my tank?.   Lisa

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 43460	From: robbrouse	Date: 9/16/2009
Subject: Re: Re; BN not growing

18 fish for a 22 gallon tank? Were you thinking one fish per gallon or the very popular and over used (and under thought out) 1" of adult fish per gallon. I'd be willing to be that you TANK is way over stocked. I'm think you need to get rid of half of the fish or dang near triple the size of your tank. Maybe if you moved up to a 55 gallon you could pull this off, but I still think it might be a little tight. Maybe look into a 2nd tank if room allows and split them up. I'm sure others can give you better advice but from what I can see you have about 8 to 10 too many fish for your tank. I don't know whats all in there, but I'm guessing you should try and get it down to 8 or 10 fish and see if things get better. Maybe see if a friend or local sore could take some of the extra and see if thing get better. Robb --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, Lisa Lawless <lisa_lawless2004@...> wrote: > > > Hi Lenny. >   > My tank is 22gal heated at 24* and filtered with an u/g filter. > There is about 18 fish in there, none over 2 ½ inch in length, except for my albino BN which is about 3 inch. > 95% real plants, and 3 pieces of driftwood which I have seen the juvi and albino munching on. >   > They also get Tubifex worms that are disgaurded by the mid and top swimmers. Also Spirilina flakes, and sinking algae disks and pellets. > Oh! and an occasional green veggie >   > Lisa > > > >   > > > __________________________________________________________________________________ > Find local businesses and services in your area with Yahoo!7 Local. > Get started: http://local.yahoo.com.au > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 43461	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 9/16/2009
Subject: Law of Concern

There is a part of the U.S. Code known as Section 48 that may be of concern to at least some of us. In brief, Section 48 imposes criminal penalties on anyone who knowingly creates, possesses or sells a visual or auditory depiction of "animal cruelty" with the intention of placing that depiction in interstate or foreign commerce, unless the depiction possesses "serious" religious, political, scientific, educational, journalistic, historical or artistic value. For purposes of the statute, "animal cruelty" is defined to include all conduct in which a living animal is intentionally killed or wounded, and such conduct violates federal or state law, either where it occurred or where the depiction is possessed or sold. Sold, quite often, are fish that are tattooed or dyed. Such an action (the tattooing or dyeing of fish) could be construed to constitute cruelty. If you take pictures of these fish, you are liable under this law, and if you post them to a place where the public has access to them, you are also liable, as are those who view the images, since the image will remain on your computer for a length of time, or download the picture to your computer. I am fairly certain they would also try to tie this to the sites who host these photos as well (the AR folk are relentless once they get their hands onto something). Although the law is over 10 years old, the first prosecution under the law was in 2004 of a Virginian, Robert Stevens, for making a video depicting dog fighting. He was convicted and sentenced to 37 months in prison. The case has been under appeal ever since, and an appeal will be heard by the Supreme Court of the United States in early October. [I could not find the reference I had read talking about the subject matter of the videos, so I'll not attempt to talk about the subject matter in the videos.] If the Supreme Court finds the law to be valid, anyone who possesses photos of the above mentioned fish could be found liable. Of course, the law cuts two ways. One can go to any AR site and see photos and stills of supposedly abused animals. That would mean that they would also run afoul of this law (not that I would mind seeing organizations such as HSUS and their buddies PeTA, and subsidiaries such as the Doris Day group be brought to court and found guilty). I also think it would be some time before this would come around to aquarists, but, if the law is upheld, I am sure that once the AR people effectively remove dogs and cats as pets (which is one of their goals) fish would come into their sights. \\Steve//

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 43462	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 9/16/2009
Subject: Re: Law of Concern

There are also lots of vids on YouTube and other sites that show people setting up their fish to fight or feeding live feeder fish to carnivorous predatory fish like Snakehead's. Of course, all of these things happen in nature, as does dog fighting so if the guy who made the dog-fighting video got convicted, then folks who make fish fighting vids could also be prosecuted. I hope they don't come after me with my Fish Jokes page on my blog, http://goldlenny.blogspot.com/2009/02/fish-jokes-some-may-be-pg-or-r-rated.h tml. There is the one video, half way down, called "Little Girl Burying Her Goldfish". Everyone should watch that one before I get hauled off to a SuperMax Prison. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Steve Szabo Sent: Wednesday, September 16, 2009 11:00 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Law of Concern There is a part of the U.S. Code known as Section 48 that may be of concern to at least some of us. In brief, Section 48 imposes criminal penalties on anyone who knowingly creates, possesses or sells a visual or auditory depiction of "animal cruelty" with the intention of placing that depiction in interstate or foreign commerce, unless the depiction possesses "serious" religious, political, scientific, educational, journalistic, historical or artistic value. For purposes of the statute, "animal cruelty" is defined to include all conduct in which a living animal is intentionally killed or wounded, and such conduct violates federal or state law, either where it occurred or where the depiction is possessed or sold. Sold, quite often, are fish that are tattooed or dyed. Such an action (the tattooing or dyeing of fish) could be construed to constitute cruelty. If you take pictures of these fish, you are liable under this law, and if you post them to a place where the public has access to them, you are also liable, as are those who view the images, since the image will remain on your computer for a length of time, or download the picture to your computer. I am fairly certain they would also try to tie this to the sites who host these photos as well (the AR folk are relentless once they get their hands onto something). Although the law is over 10 years old, the first prosecution under the law was in 2004 of a Virginian, Robert Stevens, for making a video depicting dog fighting. He was convicted and sentenced to 37 months in prison. The case has been under appeal ever since, and an appeal will be heard by the Supreme Court of the United States in early October. [I could not find the reference I had read talking about the subject matter of the videos, so I'll not attempt to talk about the subject matter in the videos.] If the Supreme Court finds the law to be valid, anyone who possesses photos of the above mentioned fish could be found liable. Of course, the law cuts two ways. One can go to any AR site and see photos and stills of supposedly abused animals. That would mean that they would also run afoul of this law (not that I would mind seeing organizations such as HSUS and their buddies PeTA, and subsidiaries such as the Doris Day group be brought to court and found guilty). I also think it would be some time before this would come around to aquarists, but, if the law is upheld, I am sure that once the AR people effectively remove dogs and cats as pets (which is one of their goals) fish would come into their sights. \\Steve//

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 43463	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 9/16/2009
Subject: Re: re - BN not growing

So Lenny is there an 800 number for reporting fish abuse? ;) Amber Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > > > Well, even one fish could overstock a tank if the tank is not large > enough. > For example, a single Oscar Cichlid would not work out in your tank; > neither > would a single goldfish. So yes, seven fish could overstock a tank with no > problem if they are not the right sized fish for the tank. I only have > three fish in my 65G tank... but two are fancy goldfish and the third is a > 3" Clown Pleco. Even with only those three, I have to stick to a strict > weekly tank maintenance schedule to keep the water quality from > deteriorating or algae from becoming a problem. > > With your 22G tank, the two BN Plecos (5" to 6" each), each needing around > 10G each, that would come close to fully stocking a 22G tank. The Ram > would > certainly fill out the stocking level of the tank. > > How well are the BN Plecos getting along? Are they both males, females or > mixed? > > The guppies aren't too bad compared to the above three fish, except > for the > preferred water parameters as the above fish like softer, more acidic > waters > and guppies like harder, more alkaline (higher pH) water. As far as body > mass or pollution levels, four guppies aren't that bad, unless you have a > mix of males and females that would be constantly breeding and causing > either a lot of extra fish or a lot of protein rich food for the other > fish > and protein rich foods add to the bioload compared to regular foods. Four > male guppies would be best so there would be no breeding and males are > prettier anyhow. If you have them mixed sex, then you should have three > females and one male as two on two would result in too much stress on the > females from being sexually harassed by the males... and three males > on one > female would be fish-abuse on the female. LOL > > You might consider keeping the neon tetras, instead of the guppies, since > neon's prefer similar water parameters to the other fish (plecos and ram) > but we still do not know what your new water parameters are going to > be. If > you have soft, acidic water, then the plecos, ram and neon's would be > best. > If you have hard, alkaline water, then the guppies, mollies and swordtails > would be better. > > At least, if you do have hard, alkaline water at the new source, with the > driftwood and plants, they would help to soften the water and lower > the pH, > especially if the driftwood is still leaching tannins. Or you could run a > little peat moss in your filter to naturally soften the water and > lower the > pH making the water better for the plecos, ram and neon's... but all > of this > is speculation since we do not know what your new water parameters are > going > to be like. > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right > side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On > Behalf Of Lisa Lawless > Sent: Wednesday, September 16, 2009 8:10 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Subject: [AquaticLife] re - BN not growing > > All my adult fish are no bigger then 2 ½ -3* at most, and I was > conscious of > the expected adult size when I got them. So yeah, I planned ahead for > that. > Maybe before I move next month, I should attempt to trade in some of the > more common ones, -my cardinal tetras, glassfish, swordtails and dalmatian > mollie- and keep the special ones. Like my female blue ram, albino BN, > normal BN, and my guppies. > That would leave me with a stock of roughly > > 1 blue ram > 2 BN catfish > 4 guppies. > Surely 7 fish is not over stocking my tank?. > > Lisa > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 43464	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 9/16/2009
Subject: Re: re - BN not growing

Did you mean to post this reply in the thread that \\Steve// started about the U.S. Federal Fish-Abuse laws? I don't think Lisa is abusing her fish since she's working to make things better for them. Besides, she's down in Australia and can thumb her nose at some of our laws. ;-) In answering your question, I think 1-800-PeTA-SUX might work. ;-) Oh wait.. that's for reporting PeTA fraud and abuse, not fish abuse. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Amber Berglund Sent: Thursday, September 17, 2009 12:19 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] re - BN not growing So Lenny is there an 800 number for reporting fish abuse? ;) Amber Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > > > Well, even one fish could overstock a tank if the tank is not large > enough. > For example, a single Oscar Cichlid would not work out in your tank; > neither would a single goldfish. So yes, seven fish could overstock a > tank with no problem if they are not the right sized fish for the > tank. I only have three fish in my 65G tank... but two are fancy > goldfish and the third is a 3" Clown Pleco. Even with only those > three, I have to stick to a strict weekly tank maintenance schedule to > keep the water quality from deteriorating or algae from becoming a > problem. > > With your 22G tank, the two BN Plecos (5" to 6" each), each needing > around 10G each, that would come close to fully stocking a 22G tank. > The Ram would certainly fill out the stocking level of the tank. > > How well are the BN Plecos getting along? Are they both males, females > or mixed? > > The guppies aren't too bad compared to the above three fish, except > for the preferred water parameters as the above fish like softer, more > acidic waters and guppies like harder, more alkaline (higher pH) > water. As far as body mass or pollution levels, four guppies aren't > that bad, unless you have a mix of males and females that would be > constantly breeding and causing either a lot of extra fish or a lot of > protein rich food for the other fish and protein rich foods add to the > bioload compared to regular foods. Four male guppies would be best so > there would be no breeding and males are prettier anyhow. If you have > them mixed sex, then you should have three females and one male as two > on two would result in too much stress on the females from being > sexually harassed by the males... and three males on one female would > be fish-abuse on the female. LOL > > You might consider keeping the neon tetras, instead of the guppies, > since neon's prefer similar water parameters to the other fish (plecos > and ram) but we still do not know what your new water parameters are > going to be. If you have soft, acidic water, then the plecos, ram and > neon's would be best. > If you have hard, alkaline water, then the guppies, mollies and > swordtails would be better. > > At least, if you do have hard, alkaline water at the new source, with > the driftwood and plants, they would help to soften the water and > lower the pH, especially if the driftwood is still leaching tannins. > Or you could run a little peat moss in your filter to naturally soften > the water and lower the pH making the water better for the plecos, ram > and neon's... but all of this is speculation since we do not know what > your new water parameters are going to be like. > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> (Links to any articles referenced in > above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels > and also under Archives by Year, Month) > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On Behalf Of Lisa Lawless > Sent: Wednesday, September 16, 2009 8:10 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Subject: [AquaticLife] re - BN not growing > > All my adult fish are no bigger then 2 ½ -3* at most, and I was > conscious of the expected adult size when I got them. So yeah, I > planned ahead for that. > Maybe before I move next month, I should attempt to trade in some of > the more common ones, -my cardinal tetras, glassfish, swordtails and > dalmatian > mollie- and keep the special ones. Like my female blue ram, albino BN, > normal BN, and my guppies. > That would leave me with a stock of roughly > > 1 blue ram > 2 BN catfish > 4 guppies. > Surely 7 fish is not over stocking my tank?. > > Lisa

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 43465	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 9/16/2009
Subject: Re: re - BN not growing

You said that 3 males against 1 female would be fish abuse, so I just had to ask where you report that fish abuse ;) LOL. Sorry been a long day and at this point all I can do is try to find humor otherwise I might just have to go insane ;) Amber Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > > > Did you mean to post this reply in the thread that \\Steve// started about > the U.S. Federal Fish-Abuse laws? I don't think Lisa is abusing her fish > since she's working to make things better for them. Besides, she's down in > Australia and can thumb her nose at some of our laws. ;-) > > In answering your question, I think 1-800-PeTA-SUX might work. ;-) Oh > wait.. that's for reporting PeTA fraud and abuse, not fish abuse. > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right > side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On > Behalf Of Amber Berglund > Sent: Thursday, September 17, 2009 12:19 AM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] re - BN not growing > > So Lenny is there an 800 number for reporting fish abuse? ;) > > Amber > > Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > > > > > > Well, even one fish could overstock a tank if the tank is not large > > enough. > > For example, a single Oscar Cichlid would not work out in your tank; > > neither would a single goldfish. So yes, seven fish could overstock a > > tank with no problem if they are not the right sized fish for the > > tank. I only have three fish in my 65G tank... but two are fancy > > goldfish and the third is a 3" Clown Pleco. Even with only those > > three, I have to stick to a strict weekly tank maintenance schedule to > > keep the water quality from deteriorating or algae from becoming a > > problem. > > > > With your 22G tank, the two BN Plecos (5" to 6" each), each needing > > around 10G each, that would come close to fully stocking a 22G tank. > > The Ram would certainly fill out the stocking level of the tank. > > > > How well are the BN Plecos getting along? Are they both males, females > > or mixed? > > > > The guppies aren't too bad compared to the above three fish, except > > for the preferred water parameters as the above fish like softer, more > > acidic waters and guppies like harder, more alkaline (higher pH) > > water. As far as body mass or pollution levels, four guppies aren't > > that bad, unless you have a mix of males and females that would be > > constantly breeding and causing either a lot of extra fish or a lot of > > protein rich food for the other fish and protein rich foods add to the > > bioload compared to regular foods. Four male guppies would be best so > > there would be no breeding and males are prettier anyhow. If you have > > them mixed sex, then you should have three females and one male as two > > on two would result in too much stress on the females from being > > sexually harassed by the males... and three males on one female would > > be fish-abuse on the female. LOL > > > > You might consider keeping the neon tetras, instead of the guppies, > > since neon's prefer similar water parameters to the other fish (plecos > > and ram) but we still do not know what your new water parameters are > > going to be. If you have soft, acidic water, then the plecos, ram and > > neon's would be best. > > If you have hard, alkaline water, then the guppies, mollies and > > swordtails would be better. > > > > At least, if you do have hard, alkaline water at the new source, with > > the driftwood and plants, they would help to soften the water and > > lower the pH, especially if the driftwood is still leaching tannins. > > Or you could run a little peat moss in your filter to naturally soften > > the water and lower the pH making the water better for the plecos, ram > > and neon's... but all of this is speculation since we do not know what > > your new water parameters are going to be like. > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>> > (Links to any articles referenced in > > above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels > > and also under Archives by Year, Month) > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On Behalf Of Lisa Lawless > > Sent: Wednesday, September 16, 2009 8:10 PM > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > Subject: [AquaticLife] re - BN not growing > > > > All my adult fish are no bigger then 2 ½ -3* at most, and I was > > conscious of the expected adult size when I got them. So yeah, I > > planned ahead for that. > > Maybe before I move next month, I should attempt to trade in some of > > the more common ones, -my cardinal tetras, glassfish, swordtails and > > dalmatian > > mollie- and keep the special ones. Like my female blue ram, albino BN, > > normal BN, and my guppies. > > That would leave me with a stock of roughly > > > > 1 blue ram > > 2 BN catfish > > 4 guppies. > > Surely 7 fish is not over stocking my tank?. > > > > Lisa > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 43466	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 9/16/2009
Subject: Re: re - BN not growing

OH YEAH.. my bad. I did say that in this thread. Ooops! At least your question prompted me to come up with a good 800 number though. ;-) Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Amber Berglund Sent: Thursday, September 17, 2009 12:38 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] re - BN not growing You said that 3 males against 1 female would be fish abuse, so I just had to ask where you report that fish abuse ;) LOL. Sorry been a long day and at this point all I can do is try to find humor otherwise I might just have to go insane ;) Amber Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > > > Did you mean to post this reply in the thread that \\Steve// started > about the U.S. Federal Fish-Abuse laws? I don't think Lisa is abusing > her fish since she's working to make things better for them. Besides, > she's down in Australia and can thumb her nose at some of our laws. > ;-) > > In answering your question, I think 1-800-PeTA-SUX might work. ;-) Oh > wait.. that's for reporting PeTA fraud and abuse, not fish abuse. > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> (Links to any articles referenced in > above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels > and also under Archives by Year, Month) > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On Behalf Of Amber Berglund > Sent: Thursday, September 17, 2009 12:19 AM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] re - BN not growing > > So Lenny is there an 800 number for reporting fish abuse? ;) > > Amber > > Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > > > > > > Well, even one fish could overstock a tank if the tank is not large > > enough. > > For example, a single Oscar Cichlid would not work out in your tank; > > neither would a single goldfish. So yes, seven fish could overstock > > a tank with no problem if they are not the right sized fish for the > > tank. I only have three fish in my 65G tank... but two are fancy > > goldfish and the third is a 3" Clown Pleco. Even with only those > > three, I have to stick to a strict weekly tank maintenance schedule > > to keep the water quality from deteriorating or algae from becoming > > a problem. > > > > With your 22G tank, the two BN Plecos (5" to 6" each), each needing > > around 10G each, that would come close to fully stocking a 22G tank. > > The Ram would certainly fill out the stocking level of the tank. > > > > How well are the BN Plecos getting along? Are they both males, > > females or mixed? > > > > The guppies aren't too bad compared to the above three fish, except > > for the preferred water parameters as the above fish like softer, > > more acidic waters and guppies like harder, more alkaline (higher > > pH) water. As far as body mass or pollution levels, four guppies > > aren't that bad, unless you have a mix of males and females that > > would be constantly breeding and causing either a lot of extra fish > > or a lot of protein rich food for the other fish and protein rich > > foods add to the bioload compared to regular foods. Four male > > guppies would be best so there would be no breeding and males are > > prettier anyhow. If you have them mixed sex, then you should have > > three females and one male as two on two would result in too much > > stress on the females from being sexually harassed by the males... > > and three males on one female would be fish-abuse on the female. LOL > > > > You might consider keeping the neon tetras, instead of the guppies, > > since neon's prefer similar water parameters to the other fish > > (plecos and ram) but we still do not know what your new water > > parameters are going to be. If you have soft, acidic water, then the > > plecos, ram and neon's would be best. > > If you have hard, alkaline water, then the guppies, mollies and > > swordtails would be better. > > > > At least, if you do have hard, alkaline water at the new source, > > with the driftwood and plants, they would help to soften the water > > and lower the pH, especially if the driftwood is still leaching tannins. > > Or you could run a little peat moss in your filter to naturally > > soften the water and lower the pH making the water better for the > > plecos, ram and neon's... but all of this is speculation since we do > > not know what your new water parameters are going to be like. > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>> > (Links to any articles referenced in > > above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under > > Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On Behalf Of Lisa Lawless > > Sent: Wednesday, September 16, 2009 8:10 PM > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > Subject: [AquaticLife] re - BN not growing > > > > All my adult fish are no bigger then 2 ½ -3* at most, and I was > > conscious of the expected adult size when I got them. So yeah, I > > planned ahead for that. > > Maybe before I move next month, I should attempt to trade in some of > > the more common ones, -my cardinal tetras, glassfish, swordtails and > > dalmatian > > mollie- and keep the special ones. Like my female blue ram, albino > > BN, normal BN, and my guppies. > > That would leave me with a stock of roughly > > > > 1 blue ram > > 2 BN catfish > > 4 guppies. > > Surely 7 fish is not over stocking my tank?. > > > > Lisa >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 43467	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 9/16/2009
Subject: Re: re - BN not growing

Are there bad 800 numbers? On a side note too, Lisa your BN plecos will not grow very fast at all, even if you had them in a nice big tank by themselves. I have one in my 125 gallon tank and in the last 2 months it's only grown about 1/4 of an inch at most. But it's got some nice "whiskers" showing on it's snout, might be a male after all. Mine is probably about 8 months old, so it's still pretty young and usually most young fish grow fast, but BN pleco's don't seem to know this ;) LOL. Amber Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > > > OH YEAH.. my bad. I did say that in this thread. Ooops! > > At least your question prompted me to come up with a good 800 number > though. > ;-) > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right > side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) > > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On > Behalf Of Amber Berglund > Sent: Thursday, September 17, 2009 12:38 AM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] re - BN not growing > > You said that 3 males against 1 female would be fish abuse, so I just > had to > ask where you report that fish abuse ;) LOL. > Sorry been a long day and at this point all I can do is try to find humor > otherwise I might just have to go insane ;) > > Amber > > Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > > > > > > Did you mean to post this reply in the thread that \\Steve// started > > about the U.S. Federal Fish-Abuse laws? I don't think Lisa is abusing > > her fish since she's working to make things better for them. Besides, > > she's down in Australia and can thumb her nose at some of our laws. > > ;-) > > > > In answering your question, I think 1-800-PeTA-SUX might work. ;-) Oh > > wait.. that's for reporting PeTA fraud and abuse, not fish abuse. > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>> > (Links to any articles referenced in > > above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels > > and also under Archives by Year, Month) > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On Behalf Of Amber Berglund > > Sent: Thursday, September 17, 2009 12:19 AM > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] re - BN not growing > > > > So Lenny is there an 800 number for reporting fish abuse? ;) > > > > Amber > > > > Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > > > > > > > > > Well, even one fish could overstock a tank if the tank is not large > > > enough. > > > For example, a single Oscar Cichlid would not work out in your tank; > > > neither would a single goldfish. So yes, seven fish could overstock > > > a tank with no problem if they are not the right sized fish for the > > > tank. I only have three fish in my 65G tank... but two are fancy > > > goldfish and the third is a 3" Clown Pleco. Even with only those > > > three, I have to stick to a strict weekly tank maintenance schedule > > > to keep the water quality from deteriorating or algae from becoming > > > a problem. > > > > > > With your 22G tank, the two BN Plecos (5" to 6" each), each needing > > > around 10G each, that would come close to fully stocking a 22G tank. > > > The Ram would certainly fill out the stocking level of the tank. > > > > > > How well are the BN Plecos getting along? Are they both males, > > > females or mixed? > > > > > > The guppies aren't too bad compared to the above three fish, except > > > for the preferred water parameters as the above fish like softer, > > > more acidic waters and guppies like harder, more alkaline (higher > > > pH) water. As far as body mass or pollution levels, four guppies > > > aren't that bad, unless you have a mix of males and females that > > > would be constantly breeding and causing either a lot of extra fish > > > or a lot of protein rich food for the other fish and protein rich > > > foods add to the bioload compared to regular foods. Four male > > > guppies would be best so there would be no breeding and males are > > > prettier anyhow. If you have them mixed sex, then you should have > > > three females and one male as two on two would result in too much > > > stress on the females from being sexually harassed by the males... > > > and three males on one female would be fish-abuse on the female. LOL > > > > > > You might consider keeping the neon tetras, instead of the guppies, > > > since neon's prefer similar water parameters to the other fish > > > (plecos and ram) but we still do not know what your new water > > > parameters are going to be. If you have soft, acidic water, then the > > > plecos, ram and neon's would be best. > > > If you have hard, alkaline water, then the guppies, mollies and > > > swordtails would be better. > > > > > > At least, if you do have hard, alkaline water at the new source, > > > with the driftwood and plants, they would help to soften the water > > > and lower the pH, especially if the driftwood is still leaching > tannins. > > > Or you could run a little peat moss in your filter to naturally > > > soften the water and lower the pH making the water better for the > > > plecos, ram and neon's... but all of this is speculation since we do > > > not know what your new water parameters are going to be like. > > > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>> > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>>> > > (Links to any articles referenced in > > > above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under > > > Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On Behalf Of Lisa Lawless > > > Sent: Wednesday, September 16, 2009 8:10 PM > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > Subject: [AquaticLife] re - BN not growing > > > > > > All my adult fish are no bigger then 2 ½ -3* at most, and I was > > > conscious of the expected adult size when I got them. So yeah, I > > > planned ahead for that. > > > Maybe before I move next month, I should attempt to trade in some of > > > the more common ones, -my cardinal tetras, glassfish, swordtails and > > > dalmatian > > > mollie- and keep the special ones. Like my female blue ram, albino > > > BN, normal BN, and my guppies. > > > That would leave me with a stock of roughly > > > > > > 1 blue ram > > > 2 BN catfish > > > 4 guppies. > > > Surely 7 fish is not over stocking my tank?. > > > > > > Lisa > > > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 43468	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 9/17/2009
Subject: Re: re - BN not growing

Call your local (or their local) animal control officer. \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Amber Berglund Sent: Thursday, September 17, 2009 1:19 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] re - BN not growing So Lenny is there an 800 number for reporting fish abuse? ;) Amber Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > > > Well, even one fish could overstock a tank if the tank is not large > enough. > For example, a single Oscar Cichlid would not work out in your tank; > neither > would a single goldfish. So yes, seven fish could overstock a tank with no > problem if they are not the right sized fish for the tank. I only have > three fish in my 65G tank... but two are fancy goldfish and the third is a > 3" Clown Pleco. Even with only those three, I have to stick to a strict > weekly tank maintenance schedule to keep the water quality from > deteriorating or algae from becoming a problem. > > With your 22G tank, the two BN Plecos (5" to 6" each), each needing around > 10G each, that would come close to fully stocking a 22G tank. The Ram > would > certainly fill out the stocking level of the tank. > > How well are the BN Plecos getting along? Are they both males, females or > mixed? > > The guppies aren't too bad compared to the above three fish, except > for the > preferred water parameters as the above fish like softer, more acidic > waters > and guppies like harder, more alkaline (higher pH) water. As far as body > mass or pollution levels, four guppies aren't that bad, unless you have a > mix of males and females that would be constantly breeding and causing > either a lot of extra fish or a lot of protein rich food for the other > fish > and protein rich foods add to the bioload compared to regular foods. Four > male guppies would be best so there would be no breeding and males are > prettier anyhow. If you have them mixed sex, then you should have three > females and one male as two on two would result in too much stress on the > females from being sexually harassed by the males... and three males > on one > female would be fish-abuse on the female. LOL > > You might consider keeping the neon tetras, instead of the guppies, since > neon's prefer similar water parameters to the other fish (plecos and ram) > but we still do not know what your new water parameters are going to > be. If > you have soft, acidic water, then the plecos, ram and neon's would be > best. > If you have hard, alkaline water, then the guppies, mollies and swordtails > would be better. > > At least, if you do have hard, alkaline water at the new source, with the > driftwood and plants, they would help to soften the water and lower > the pH, > especially if the driftwood is still leaching tannins. Or you could run a > little peat moss in your filter to naturally soften the water and > lower the > pH making the water better for the plecos, ram and neon's... but all > of this > is speculation since we do not know what your new water parameters are > going > to be like. > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right > side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On > Behalf Of Lisa Lawless > Sent: Wednesday, September 16, 2009 8:10 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Subject: [AquaticLife] re - BN not growing > > All my adult fish are no bigger then 2 ½ -3* at most, and I was > conscious of > the expected adult size when I got them. So yeah, I planned ahead for > that. > Maybe before I move next month, I should attempt to trade in some of the > more common ones, -my cardinal tetras, glassfish, swordtails and dalmatian > mollie- and keep the special ones. Like my female blue ram, albino BN, > normal BN, and my guppies. > That would leave me with a stock of roughly > > 1 blue ram > 2 BN catfish > 4 guppies. > Surely 7 fish is not over stocking my tank?. > > Lisa > > ------------------------------------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the home page. Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com to receive the digest, which includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com for the No E-Mail option where you will still be able to read messages on the group and post replies. Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com to receive individual e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 43469	From: Lisa	Date: 9/17/2009
Subject: Re: re - BN not growing

Well at this point I know the albino is male. But the juvi, is only roughly uh....3cm, so still to small to tell. And they get along really well. I love my catfish, and i really don;t want to give them up :) Lisa _________________ How well are the BN Plecos getting along? Are they both males, females or mixed?

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 43470	From: Lisa	Date: 9/17/2009
Subject: Re: re - BN not growing

Oh dear lol, i might have to turn myself it to the authorities for fish abuse...lol At least i can see the joke it it. But in all seriousness, the reason i raised this topic in the first place, was, when i got my (gold spot)albino about 9 months ago, he was not much bigger then the normal colour juvi, maybe half a cm bigger??? But he's been in my tank 9 months, and already he's the biggest in my tank at 3 inches. So that's why i thought the juvi should have grown quicker. I love my fish, i love my aquarium, and i only want the best for them. It's kinda like an addiction though. Cause i see a pretty colour fish, and i'm like 'Oooooooh! got to have it now!' I can help myself. AT least it's a healthy addiction...it could have been something worse... Lisa

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 43471	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 9/17/2009
Subject: Re: re - BN not growing

As for the last paragraph below, that's another reason many of us stress doing research first, before buying that pretty new fish. It gives you a chance to write down the common and hopefully the scientific name of the fish while at the store, maybe take a pic. Then come home and either ask out here or check for profiles/care sheets on reliable sites like Mongabay.com, BadmansTropicalFish, TheKrib, Cichlid-Forum.com, PlanetCatfish.com and the MANY, MANY other good profile sites. I have a more thorough list of sites that I use often, listed on my blog. Then, after reading a few good profiles, you'll know how to take care of the fish better, should you get it, but also know how it will impact the ecology of your tank and if it's not a good mix, then hopefully you won't get it. It's kind of like a learning time-out, to stop impulsive purchases. ;-) Back to your pleco... As a general rule, most fish will grow their largest percentage of growth during their fry/juvi stages and then continue to grow quickly as adults during the first 1-3 years, for longer living fish. Catfish have been known to grow more slowly than some other fish so, as Amber says, yours could be on schedule... BUT... I'm guessing that when you got the first BN pleco, it and your other fish were much smaller, thus a much smaller bioload and lower hormone level in your tank. Now, many of your other fish are larger so they are a much larger bioload and put out a lot more hormones than they did nine months ago so this is affecting your new juvi fish a LOT more than it did nine months ago when you might have had less fish and smaller fish in the tank. The only solution is to lower the bioload and/or do more frequent PWC's to remove/dilute the hormone levels in the water. This is an artificial way to make the fish *think* they are in a bigger volume of water since they will still be cramped but the hormone levels will be much smaller. We learned this from the fisheries industry since they really overstock their ponds but had to figure out a way to NOT stunt the fish and get maximum growth from the fish in as short a period of time as possible to make the industry more profitable and to get more food fish to the market place. They use a constant inflow of large volumes of water which then drain out the other end of the pond, flushing the hormones and waste out so the fish are still crammed into the ponds but do not suffer from the stunting problems. In cases where they do not have access to large and inexpensive volumes of water, they use advanced filtration, much more advanced than the things we have available to us home fish keepers. Something like SeaChem's Purigen or one of the other advanced chemical filtration medias will help with removing DOC's from the water and some other impurities/pollutants but I have yet to see one of them advertise that they will reduce hormone levels. I have seen one of the reasonably well known water dechlor/conditioning products, mention on their website that their product has somehow managed to also treat/lower hormones/pheromones but I haven't seen any independent testing to verify this claim so I am still highly skeptical. One last note... for folks who do suffer from the same addiction as you, there is a name for it... it's called MTS (Multi Tank Syndrome) so the solution is to get more tanks. Then you can get more fish... and then more tanks... and then more fish.... and then more tanks. Right, Amber??? ;-) Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Lisa Sent: Thursday, September 17, 2009 2:57 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: re - BN not growing Oh dear lol, i might have to turn myself it to the authorities for fish abuse...lol At least i can see the joke it it. But in all seriousness, the reason i raised this topic in the first place, was, when i got my (gold spot)albino about 9 months ago, he was not much bigger then the normal colour juvi, maybe half a cm bigger??? But he's been in my tank 9 months, and already he's the biggest in my tank at 3 inches. So that's why i thought the juvi should have grown quicker. I love my fish, i love my aquarium, and i only want the best for them. It's kinda like an addiction though. Cause i see a pretty colour fish, and i'm like 'Oooooooh! got to have it now!' I can help myself. AT least it's a healthy addiction...it could have been something worse... Lisa

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 43472	From: sevenspringss@wmconnect.com	Date: 9/17/2009
Subject: Re: Law of Concern

So then, \\Steve//, if all of us go to our LFS's, take photos of any tattooed and dyed fish we see and send them into the Feds, we could effectively shut down this particular practice in cruelty to fish. After all these shops from all over the country getting fined, I doubt they would be buying any more of them from their local wholesalers. HMM, now, if some of us have access to these wholesalers . . . well, I doubt any more would be imported after that. Ray [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 43473	From: Wendie	Date: 9/17/2009
Subject: Re: re - BN not growing

I've always found that my females remain about 3 inches in size while the male can almost double that. This has remained true during several generations. Although small in size, they can sure produce eggs. Wendie ----- Original Message ----- From: Lisa To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Thursday, September 17, 2009 3:46 AM Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: re - BN not growing Well at this point I know the albino is male. But the juvi, is only roughly uh....3cm, so still to small to tell. And they get along really well. I love my catfish, and i really don;t want to give them up :) Lisa _________________ How well are the BN Plecos getting along? Are they both males, females or mixed? [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 43474	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 9/17/2009
Subject: Re: re - BN not growing

Hi Wendie, I've never read that on any of the reputable profiles or other info that I've read but it certainly could be true since this is not uncommon for other fish species. Of course, there are many species in the Ancistrus genus that are called Bristlenose Plecos (probably all of them since the Ancistrus genus ALL have the tentacles that brought on this common name) so I guess knowing the exact species is always helpful but as a general rule, they are still supposed to get to the 5" mark, maybe a little less. Mongabay says they reach 6". Other profiles say 5" or even 4" to 5" but NONE say 3" so I'm not sure if there might be a species that stays even smaller than the others. http://fish.mongabay.com/species/Ancistrus_dolichopterus.html - 6" http://badmanstropicalfish.com/profiles/profile117.html - 4" to 5" http://www.aquariumlife.net/profiles/plecostamus/bristle-nose-pleco/100049.a sp - 5" According to PlanetCatfish.com, probably the premier website for research and profiles on all things catfish, there are around 150 individual profiles on the Ancistrus species that they have listed so far. There are likely many more that they have not profiled yet. http://www.planetcatfish.com/catelog/genus.php?genus_id=4#48 A. temminckii, http://www.planetcatfish.com/catelog/species.php?species=ancistrus+temmincki i&species_id=1290 one of the more common species referenced in many profiles and one of the smaller species, says they grow to 3.9" but nothing about females being smaller than males... just the tentacles: "Identification Mature males and sometimes females have soft tentacles (bushy fleshy growths) on the snout - this is unique within the genus Ancistrus. What is identified as A. temminckii in the aquarium trade and some hobby literature nowadays is possibly A sp. (3) but the true origins of that fish is unclear. The real A. temminckii may have shown up in the trade in the past, but is almost never imported nowadays. Sexing - Typical for the genus with males possessing the so-called 'bushy nose'. Females also may have much smaller growths on the head but to a much lesser extent." A random clicking on some of the other 150 species profiles listed on the Genus link above, shows size ranges in the 3.9" to 5.6" range. I didn't click on all 150 profiles, just about 6 of them so there certainly could be some that show up smaller or even larger. I guess in the future, I'll refer to them as growing in the 4" to 6" range instead of 5" to 6" range but I'm still unsure about those 3" ones that you've seen. Even at 4" to 6", I'll still go with recommending around 10G per BN Pleco (not a 10G tank but rather 10G of water volume within a larger tank. A 10G tank is not really large enough for a fish that should grow up to 6" and most folks will not know the exact species they are getting when they buy one. Do you know the exact species that you have? Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Wendie Sent: Thursday, September 17, 2009 6:55 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: re - BN not growing I've always found that my females remain about 3 inches in size while the male can almost double that. This has remained true during several generations. Although small in size, they can sure produce eggs. Wendie ----- Original Message ----- From: Lisa To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Thursday, September 17, 2009 3:46 AM Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: re - BN not growing Well at this point I know the albino is male. But the juvi, is only roughly uh....3cm, so still to small to tell. And they get along really well. I love my catfish, and i really don;t want to give them up :) Lisa _________________ How well are the BN Plecos getting along? Are they both males, females or mixed?

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 43475	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 9/17/2009
Subject: Re: re - BN not growing

*looks around the house* Right Lenny! LOL. I have 2x 55 gallon tanks, a 125 gallon tank, and 3x 10 gallon tanks (one is empty for an emergency H tank if needed, and only only has plants in it, and I feed it to keep it cycled, it's my recovering plant tank). Oh and my gourami is looking much better speaking of H tanks ;) he's only half as swollen, but it looks like it's going to take him a double dose to get him back to healthy condition, i've already dosed him 5 days and I'm on the 2nd 5 day dosing. Lisa if you have a hubby that doesn't like fish tanks all over the house you might have to negotiate a bit ;) LOL. Amber Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > > > As for the last paragraph below, that's another reason many of us stress > doing research first, before buying that pretty new fish. It gives you a > chance to write down the common and hopefully the scientific name of the > fish while at the store, maybe take a pic. Then come home and either ask > out here or check for profiles/care sheets on reliable sites like > Mongabay.com, BadmansTropicalFish, TheKrib, Cichlid-Forum.com, > PlanetCatfish.com and the MANY, MANY other good profile sites. I have a > more thorough list of sites that I use often, listed on my blog. Then, > after reading a few good profiles, you'll know how to take care of the > fish > better, should you get it, but also know how it will impact the ecology of > your tank and if it's not a good mix, then hopefully you won't get it. > It's > kind of like a learning time-out, to stop impulsive purchases. ;-) > > Back to your pleco... > > As a general rule, most fish will grow their largest percentage of growth > during their fry/juvi stages and then continue to grow quickly as adults > during the first 1-3 years, for longer living fish. Catfish have been > known > to grow more slowly than some other fish so, as Amber says, yours could be > on schedule... BUT... I'm guessing that when you got the first BN > pleco, it > and your other fish were much smaller, thus a much smaller bioload and > lower > hormone level in your tank. Now, many of your other fish are larger so > they > are a much larger bioload and put out a lot more hormones than they > did nine > months ago so this is affecting your new juvi fish a LOT more than it did > nine months ago when you might have had less fish and smaller fish in the > tank. The only solution is to lower the bioload and/or do more frequent > PWC's to remove/dilute the hormone levels in the water. This is an > artificial way to make the fish *think* they are in a bigger volume of > water > since they will still be cramped but the hormone levels will be much > smaller. > > We learned this from the fisheries industry since they really overstock > their ponds but had to figure out a way to NOT stunt the fish and get > maximum growth from the fish in as short a period of time as possible to > make the industry more profitable and to get more food fish to the market > place. They use a constant inflow of large volumes of water which then > drain out the other end of the pond, flushing the hormones and waste > out so > the fish are still crammed into the ponds but do not suffer from the > stunting problems. In cases where they do not have access to large and > inexpensive volumes of water, they use advanced filtration, much more > advanced than the things we have available to us home fish keepers. > > Something like SeaChem's Purigen or one of the other advanced chemical > filtration medias will help with removing DOC's from the water and some > other impurities/pollutants but I have yet to see one of them > advertise that > they will reduce hormone levels. I have seen one of the reasonably well > known water dechlor/conditioning products, mention on their website that > their product has somehow managed to also treat/lower hormones/pheromones > but I haven't seen any independent testing to verify this claim so I am > still highly skeptical. > > One last note... for folks who do suffer from the same addiction as you, > there is a name for it... it's called MTS (Multi Tank Syndrome) so the > solution is to get more tanks. Then you can get more fish... and then more > tanks... and then more fish.... and then more tanks. > > Right, Amber??? ;-) > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right > side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On > Behalf Of Lisa > Sent: Thursday, September 17, 2009 2:57 AM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: re - BN not growing > > Oh dear lol, i might have to turn myself it to the authorities for fish > abuse...lol At least i can see the joke it it. > > But in all seriousness, the reason i raised this topic in the first place, > was, when i got my (gold spot)albino about 9 months ago, he was not much > bigger then the normal colour juvi, maybe half a cm bigger??? > > But he's been in my tank 9 months, and already he's the biggest in my tank > at 3 inches. So that's why i thought the juvi should have grown quicker. > > I love my fish, i love my aquarium, and i only want the best for them. > It's kinda like an addiction though. Cause i see a pretty colour fish, and > i'm like 'Oooooooh! got to have it now!' > I can help myself. > AT least it's a healthy addiction...it could have been something worse... > > Lisa > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 43476	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 9/17/2009
Subject: Re: Law of Concern

Ray, No. There is another law that covers the act of cruelty, but nothing that I am aware that would make the shop owners guilty of anything but trying to make a profit. Now, perhaps, if you twist the logic a bit, You may be able to cook something up under the so called RICO statute, but that is not likely. I do not think there are any perpetrators of the initial act in this country, so, even this would prove to be difficult to do. There are ways to stop the importation of fish like this, but that is probably a path we would not want to follow as it would then become easier to ban fish that would be acceptable. Pit bulls are the dog now to focus upon. There is a lot of proposed legislation afoot in towns and counties to ban these dogs. The problem is that most ACO's and AR's cannot properly identify a pit bull on sight, and a lot of dogs are getting hit where these laws (ordinances) are in place. For those of you who do not know dogs, the term pit bull is a bit loosely defined, but covers only three breeds, all fairly closely related. If anyone wants to try to id the American pit bull (American Staffordshire Terrier) try it on this page: http://www.pitbullsontheweb.com/petbull/findpit.html. The other two breeds considered to be pit bulls are not pictured here. The skill set of those who would be making determinations at the border would not likely be up to the task of identifying fish properly. Would you like to have an ACO come into your store and confiscate a tank of bleeding hearts as being tattooed, and buying fish with a heart tattoo to take home with him? When it comes to animals, especially dogs and livestock right now, be very, very careful what you wish for. \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of sevenspringss@... Sent: Thursday, September 17, 2009 7:56 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Law of Concern So then, \\Steve//, if all of us go to our LFS's, take photos of any tattooed and dyed fish we see and send them into the Feds, we could effectively shut down this particular practice in cruelty to fish. After all these shops from all over the country getting fined, I doubt they would be buying any more of them from their local wholesalers. HMM, now, if some of us have access to these wholesalers . . . well, I doubt any more would be imported after that. Ray

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 43477	From: Lisa Lawless	Date: 9/18/2009
Subject: re; BN not growing

Hey Amber...Lenny...   My albino as far as i can tell is a gold spot male BN The juvi is normal colour   And i dont have a husband lol, i'm single   Lisa   Send instant messages to your online friends http://au.messenger.yahoo.com [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 43478	From: kuradi8	Date: 9/18/2009
Subject: Re: Law of Concern

It is up to all of us to be responsible pet owners to our furry, feathered or scaled family members. And that includes not perpetuating cruelty at any level. Don't create a demand for dyed, injected or tattooed fish. And since you brought up pit bulls, I recently saw a TV show in which it spoke about breeds that are most likely to bite and chihuahuas topped the list. Many at the top of the list were hyper "little yappy dogs." Pit bulls came in pretty low on the list -- and the commentator said that they would have scored lower if so many hadn't been taught and bred to be aggressive. Blame the owners, not the breeds. ~Kai --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Steve Szabo" <steve@...> wrote: > > Ray, > > No. There is another law that covers the act of cruelty, but nothing > that I am aware that would make the shop owners guilty of anything but > trying to make a profit. Now, perhaps, if you twist the logic a bit, You > may be able to cook something up under the so called RICO statute, but > that is not likely. I do not think there are any perpetrators of the > initial act in this country, so, even this would prove to be difficult > to do. There are ways to stop the importation of fish like this, but > that is probably a path we would not want to follow as it would then > become easier to ban fish that would be acceptable. > > Pit bulls are the dog now to focus upon. There is a lot of proposed > legislation afoot in towns and counties to ban these dogs. The problem > is that most ACO's and AR's cannot properly identify a pit bull on > sight, and a lot of dogs are getting hit where these laws (ordinances) > are in place. For those of you who do not know dogs, the term pit bull > is a bit loosely defined, but covers only three breeds, all fairly > closely related. If anyone wants to try to id the American pit bull > (American Staffordshire Terrier) try it on this page: > http://www.pitbullsontheweb.com/petbull/findpit.html. The other two > breeds considered to be pit bulls are not pictured here. > > The skill set of those who would be making determinations at the border > would not likely be up to the task of identifying fish properly. Would > you like to have an ACO come into your store and confiscate a tank of > bleeding hearts as being tattooed, and buying fish with a heart tattoo > to take home with him? > > When it comes to animals, especially dogs and livestock right now, be > very, very careful what you wish for. > > \\Steve// > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] > On Behalf Of sevenspringss@... > Sent: Thursday, September 17, 2009 7:56 AM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Law of Concern > > So then, \\Steve//, if all of us go to our LFS's, take photos of any > tattooed and dyed fish we see and send them into the Feds, we could > effectively > shut down this particular practice in cruelty to fish. After all these > shops > from all over the country getting fined, I doubt they would be buying > any > more of them from their local wholesalers. HMM, now, if some of us have > > access to these wholesalers . . . well, I doubt any more would be > imported after > that. Ray >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 43479	From: mattyobones	Date: 9/18/2009
Subject: Re: Law of Concern

--- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "kuradi8" <kuradi8@...> wrote: > I agree with that. > It is up to all of us to be responsible pet owners to our furry, feathered or scaled family members. And that includes not perpetuating cruelty at any level. Don't create a demand for dyed, injected or tattooed fish. > > And since you brought up pit bulls, I recently saw a TV show in which it spoke about breeds that are most likely to bite and chihuahuas topped the list. Many at the top of the list were hyper "little yappy dogs." Pit bulls came in pretty low on the list -- and the commentator said that they would have scored lower if so many hadn't been taught and bred to be aggressive. Blame the owners, not the breeds. > ~Kai > > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Steve Szabo" <steve@> wrote: > > > > Ray, > > > > No. There is another law that covers the act of cruelty, but nothing > > that I am aware that would make the shop owners guilty of anything but > > trying to make a profit. Now, perhaps, if you twist the logic a bit, You > > may be able to cook something up under the so called RICO statute, but > > that is not likely. I do not think there are any perpetrators of the > > initial act in this country, so, even this would prove to be difficult > > to do. There are ways to stop the importation of fish like this, but > > that is probably a path we would not want to follow as it would then > > become easier to ban fish that would be acceptable. > > > > Pit bulls are the dog now to focus upon. There is a lot of proposed > > legislation afoot in towns and counties to ban these dogs. The problem > > is that most ACO's and AR's cannot properly identify a pit bull on > > sight, and a lot of dogs are getting hit where these laws (ordinances) > > are in place. For those of you who do not know dogs, the term pit bull > > is a bit loosely defined, but covers only three breeds, all fairly > > closely related. If anyone wants to try to id the American pit bull > > (American Staffordshire Terrier) try it on this page: > > http://www.pitbullsontheweb.com/petbull/findpit.html. The other two > > breeds considered to be pit bulls are not pictured here. > > > > The skill set of those who would be making determinations at the border > > would not likely be up to the task of identifying fish properly. Would > > you like to have an ACO come into your store and confiscate a tank of > > bleeding hearts as being tattooed, and buying fish with a heart tattoo > > to take home with him? > > > > When it comes to animals, especially dogs and livestock right now, be > > very, very careful what you wish for. > > > > \\Steve// > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] > > On Behalf Of sevenspringss@ > > Sent: Thursday, September 17, 2009 7:56 AM > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Law of Concern > > > > So then, \\Steve//, if all of us go to our LFS's, take photos of any > > tattooed and dyed fish we see and send them into the Feds, we could > > effectively > > shut down this particular practice in cruelty to fish. After all these > > shops > > from all over the country getting fined, I doubt they would be buying > > any > > more of them from their local wholesalers. HMM, now, if some of us have > > > > access to these wholesalers . . . well, I doubt any more would be > > imported after > > that. Ray > > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 43480	From: robbrouse	Date: 9/18/2009
Subject: Heaters.

I have 2 heaters for my 55 gallon aquarium. Do I set them both to 78 (if that's what I want it at) or do I set one slight lower like to 76? Robb

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 43481	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 9/18/2009
Subject: Re: re; BN not growing

Well I don't know if being single is good or not for your checkbook this time around ;) LOL. You might have a house full of fish tanks like I do by the time you find a hubby ;) hehe But that also means you don't have to ask anyone if they mind either, so you're free to do as you please ;) LOL. Good luck with your MTS ;) I think I have mine curbed... for now ;) Amber Lisa Lawless wrote: > > > Hey Amber...Lenny... > > My albino as far as i can tell is a gold spot male BN > > The juvi is normal colour > > And i dont have a husband lol, i'm single > > Lisa > > > > Send instant messages to your online friends > http://au.messenger.yahoo.com <http://au.messenger.yahoo.com> > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 43482	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 9/18/2009
Subject: Re: Heaters.

I normally set mine both at the same temperature. Amber robbrouse wrote: > > > I have 2 heaters for my 55 gallon aquarium. > Do I set them both to 78 (if that's what I want it at) or do I set one > slight lower like to 76? > > Robb > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 43483	From: Menagerie_Manager	Date: 9/18/2009
Subject: Re: Heaters.

It seems to me that if you set the heaters at two different temps, the one set higher will do all of the work and the one set lower will rarely, if ever, kick in. Now if each heater is strong enough to heat the entire tank alone, that might make a nifty back up system when the first one fails. DebR and the Three Goldfish (CB, Lucille, and Raven) ----- Original Message ----- From: "Amber Berglund" <arberglund@...> To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Friday, September 18, 2009 2:36 PM Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Heaters. >I normally set mine both at the same temperature. > > Amber > > robbrouse wrote: >> >> >> I have 2 heaters for my 55 gallon aquarium. >> Do I set them both to 78 (if that's what I want it at) or do I set one >> slight lower like to 76? >> >> Robb >> >> > > > ------------------------------------ > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. > ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> > PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to > the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the > SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- > <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. > > If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of unsubscribing, you > can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the > home page. > > Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com to receive the digest, which > includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email > > Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com for the No E-Mail option where > you will still be able to read messages on the group and post replies. > > Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com to receive individual > e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links > > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 43484	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 9/18/2009
Subject: Re: Heaters.

I usually have them set at the same temp but even then, it seems one will come on more often than the other due to the variances in the thermostats of the heaters. When I see this happening, after a while, I'll adjust the other heater up 1 degree. Then, if that one starts doing all the work, I'll know that I'll never get perfect harmony between the heaters so I'll alternate the thermostats on them once a month or so, so that both heaters are getting equal use throughout the course of the year. This also assures you that both heaters are working properly and will work if and when needed. Sometimes, you'll get lucky and get two heaters that are calibrated exactly the same and they'll both kick on and off at the same time but this doesn't happen often. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Menagerie_Manager Sent: Friday, September 18, 2009 2:04 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Heaters. It seems to me that if you set the heaters at two different temps, the one set higher will do all of the work and the one set lower will rarely, if ever, kick in. Now if each heater is strong enough to heat the entire tank alone, that might make a nifty back up system when the first one fails. DebR and the Three Goldfish (CB, Lucille, and Raven) ----- Original Message ----- From: "Amber Berglund" <arberglund@...> To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Friday, September 18, 2009 2:36 PM Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Heaters. >I normally set mine both at the same temperature. > > Amber > > robbrouse wrote: >> >> >> I have 2 heaters for my 55 gallon aquarium. >> Do I set them both to 78 (if that's what I want it at) or do I set one >> slight lower like to 76? >> >> Robb

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 43485	From: Menagerie_Manager	Date: 9/18/2009
Subject: Re: Heaters.

I'm so glad I have goldfish and white cloud minnows and don't have to bother with a heater. I do have three, so if I need to raise temps for treatments, I can, but it's nice to have one less thing to worry about most of the time. DebR and the Three Goldfish (CB, Lucille, and Raven) ----- Original Message ----- From: "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@...> Sent: Friday, September 18, 2009 4:49 PM I usually have them set at the same temp but even then, it seems one will come on more often than the other due to the variances in the thermostats of the heaters. When I see this happening, after a while, I'll adjust the other heater up 1 degree. Then, if that one starts doing all the work, I'll know that I'll never get perfect harmony between the heaters so I'll alternate the thermostats on them once a month or so, so that both heaters are getting equal use throughout the course of the year. This also assures you that both heaters are working properly and will work if and when needed. Sometimes, you'll get lucky and get two heaters that are calibrated exactly the same and they'll both kick on and off at the same time but this doesn't happen often. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month)

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 43486	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 9/18/2009
Subject: Re: Law of Concern

When I was still living in new England, I had an acquaintance who had a whole pack of Am Staffs Once they got to know me, they were true to their breed, the most loving, gentle dogs who would vie for a position near me, especially when treats were to be had. \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of kuradi8 Sent: Friday, September 18, 2009 8:51 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Law of Concern It is up to all of us to be responsible pet owners to our furry, feathered or scaled family members. And that includes not perpetuating cruelty at any level. Don't create a demand for dyed, injected or tattooed fish. And since you brought up pit bulls, I recently saw a TV show in which it spoke about breeds that are most likely to bite and chihuahuas topped the list. Many at the top of the list were hyper "little yappy dogs." Pit bulls came in pretty low on the list -- and the commentator said that they would have scored lower if so many hadn't been taught and bred to be aggressive. Blame the owners, not the breeds. ~Kai --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Steve Szabo" <steve@...> wrote: > > Ray, > > No. There is another law that covers the act of cruelty, but nothing > that I am aware that would make the shop owners guilty of anything but > trying to make a profit. Now, perhaps, if you twist the logic a bit, You > may be able to cook something up under the so called RICO statute, but > that is not likely. I do not think there are any perpetrators of the > initial act in this country, so, even this would prove to be difficult > to do. There are ways to stop the importation of fish like this, but > that is probably a path we would not want to follow as it would then > become easier to ban fish that would be acceptable. > > Pit bulls are the dog now to focus upon. There is a lot of proposed > legislation afoot in towns and counties to ban these dogs. The problem > is that most ACO's and AR's cannot properly identify a pit bull on > sight, and a lot of dogs are getting hit where these laws (ordinances) > are in place. For those of you who do not know dogs, the term pit bull > is a bit loosely defined, but covers only three breeds, all fairly > closely related. If anyone wants to try to id the American pit bull > (American Staffordshire Terrier) try it on this page: > http://www.pitbullsontheweb.com/petbull/findpit.html. The other two > breeds considered to be pit bulls are not pictured here. > > The skill set of those who would be making determinations at the border > would not likely be up to the task of identifying fish properly. Would > you like to have an ACO come into your store and confiscate a tank of > bleeding hearts as being tattooed, and buying fish with a heart tattoo > to take home with him? > > When it comes to animals, especially dogs and livestock right now, be > very, very careful what you wish for. > > \\Steve// > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] > On Behalf Of sevenspringss@... > Sent: Thursday, September 17, 2009 7:56 AM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Law of Concern > > So then, \\Steve//, if all of us go to our LFS's, take photos of any > tattooed and dyed fish we see and send them into the Feds, we could > effectively > shut down this particular practice in cruelty to fish. After all these > shops > from all over the country getting fined, I doubt they would be buying > any > more of them from their local wholesalers. HMM, now, if some of us have > > access to these wholesalers . . . well, I doubt any more would be > imported after > that. Ray >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 43487	From: Cee Jaye	Date: 9/18/2009
Subject: Oscar Update

Wanted to thank everyone again for their help:) So far so good! He is doing well & seems like everything is going well:) I tried to take a pic but it didn't turn out well:) Tara [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 43488	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 9/18/2009
Subject: OT: For Our Hebrew Members

Shana tova! For those of you who may be a bit slow on the translation, "a good year", \\Steve//

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 43489	From: sevenspringss@wmconnect.com	Date: 9/19/2009
Subject: Re: Oscar Update

Hi Tara, Glad to see that he acclimated well and is doing fine, thanks to your taking the needed steps in seeing him through this. I guess by now he has his tank cover on <g>. Not easy taking fish photos, but it's rewarding when you come up with presentable ones. Keep trying, if only as a challenge to yourself. Ray [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 43490	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 9/19/2009
Subject: Re: Law of Concern

For those of you who may have an interest in following up on this case, oral arguments scheduled before the Supreme Court on October 6, 2009, go to this site, http://www.scotuswiki.com/index.php?title=United_States_v._Stevens. (http://tinyurl.com/nj2vws). When you get to the Amicus Briefs section, briefs in support of the petitioner are briefs supporting the US position, and briefs in support of the respondent are briefs supporting the accused, Robert Stevens. Please be aware that these are legal documents, and as such, make some heavy duty reading for the average person. Earlier on I had said that I could not find the reference to the subject matter of the video, other than it showed dog fighting, for lack of a reference to point to. The dog fighting segments were taken in Japan, and the film is in support of banning dog fighting. \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Steve Szabo Sent: Thursday, September 17, 2009 8:51 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Law of Concern Ray, No. There is another law that covers the act of cruelty, but nothing that I am aware that would make the shop owners guilty of anything but trying to make a profit. Now, perhaps, if you twist the logic a bit, You may be able to cook something up under the so called RICO statute, but that is not likely. I do not think there are any perpetrators of the initial act in this country, so, even this would prove to be difficult to do. There are ways to stop the importation of fish like this, but that is probably a path we would not want to follow as it would then become easier to ban fish that would be acceptable. Pit bulls are the dog now to focus upon. There is a lot of proposed legislation afoot in towns and counties to ban these dogs. The problem is that most ACO's and AR's cannot properly identify a pit bull on sight, and a lot of dogs are getting hit where these laws (ordinances) are in place. For those of you who do not know dogs, the term pit bull is a bit loosely defined, but covers only three breeds, all fairly closely related. If anyone wants to try to id the American pit bull (American Staffordshire Terrier) try it on this page: http://www.pitbullsontheweb.com/petbull/findpit.html. The other two breeds considered to be pit bulls are not pictured here. The skill set of those who would be making determinations at the border would not likely be up to the task of identifying fish properly. Would you like to have an ACO come into your store and confiscate a tank of bleeding hearts as being tattooed, and buying fish with a heart tattoo to take home with him? When it comes to animals, especially dogs and livestock right now, be very, very careful what you wish for. \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of sevenspringss@... Sent: Thursday, September 17, 2009 7:56 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Law of Concern So then, \\Steve//, if all of us go to our LFS's, take photos of any tattooed and dyed fish we see and send them into the Feds, we could effectively shut down this particular practice in cruelty to fish. After all these shops from all over the country getting fined, I doubt they would be buying any more of them from their local wholesalers. HMM, now, if some of us have access to these wholesalers . . . well, I doubt any more would be imported after that. Ray

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 43491	From: adonaikam	Date: 9/19/2009
Subject: Koi angel is laying eggs

Hi all Just thought I would share with you what we have been watching for the last half hour. Our Yellow Koi angel fish is laying eggs and the black marble angel is trying to fertilize them. Its the first time for the Koi so she is having lots of difficulties but is getting with practice. We will see if the eggs will survive - we expect they won't because its a community tank and we are sure the other fish will eat the eggs eventually. Just thought I'd share our excitement with you. Regards Jasmine

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 43492	From: Cee Jaye	Date: 9/19/2009
Subject: Re: Oscar Update

Thanks Ray!:) I definitely will keep trying to get his pic;) I enjoy him so much!!:) Tara -------Original Message------- From: sevenspringss@... Date: 9/19/2009 5:42:32 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Oscar Update Hi Tara, Glad to see that he acclimated well and is doing fine, thanks to Your taking the needed steps in seeing him through this. I guess by now he Has his tank cover on <g>. Not easy taking fish photos, but it's rewarding When you come up with presentable ones. Keep trying, if only as a challenge To yourself. Ray [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 43493	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 9/19/2009
Subject: Re: Koi angel is laying eggs

You will find that as soon as the other fish start going after the eggs that the Angel's should become more and more protective of them, so watch your other fish carefully, Angel's will beat up on other fish if they are in "their area". Very territorial fish when they are breeding, mine had to go into their own 55 gallon tank because they were beating up the other fish in the 125 gallon tank and making them all hang out on one side of the tank while they had half all to themselves ;). It's very neat to watch them lay eggs and care for them though, mine tend to eat their eggs, have yet to have any survive since moving them over into their own tank. My Angel's also got more aggressive towards each other when I moved them to their own tank, besides adding some fast moving fish to distract them I'm not sure how to make them happy, LOL. I thought giving them their own tank might make them happy but they seemed happier when they had other fish to chase away ;) Now they spend the time chasing each other around the tank. Hope you have less territorial Angel fish than I do ;) LOL. Amber adonaikam wrote: > > > Hi all > > Just thought I would share with you what we have been watching for the > last half hour. Our Yellow Koi angel fish is laying eggs and the black > marble angel is trying to fertilize them. Its the first time for the > Koi so she is having lots of difficulties but is getting with practice. > > We will see if the eggs will survive - we expect they won't because > its a community tank and we are sure the other fish will eat the eggs > eventually. > > Just thought I'd share our excitement with you. > > Regards > Jasmine > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 43494	From: pam andress	Date: 9/19/2009
Subject: Re: Koi angel is laying eggs

Amber, I had a problem with my discus pair all of a sudden getting mean with the other one. I took one out for a few days and then put it back and everything is fine now. They also have been eating first their eggs, then the wigglers, then the fry. The last time they had free swimming fry, I tried to move them into another tank to raise. This didn't work, but this time they have not eaten everybody. The fry has been free swimming for about 10 days now! This is a record for them, so I'm hoping this time I will actually get to see babies grow. :) I also had another pair off and I moved them to a 23 gal tank by themselves. One didn't like it at all and they never laid eggs. One was always hiding in a corner. I finally moved them back to the 55 gal community tank and a few days later they laid eggs. Of course they didn't last, but it was a first. They haven't done anything since and that was about 2 weeks ago. Pam To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com From: arberglund@... Date: Sat, 19 Sep 2009 12:24:33 -0800 Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Koi angel is laying eggs You will find that as soon as the other fish start going after the eggs that the Angel's should become more and more protective of them, so watch your other fish carefully, Angel's will beat up on other fish if they are in "their area". Very territorial fish when they are breeding, mine had to go into their own 55 gallon tank because they were beating up the other fish in the 125 gallon tank and making them all hang out on one side of the tank while they had half all to themselves ;). It's very neat to watch them lay eggs and care for them though, mine tend to eat their eggs, have yet to have any survive since moving them over into their own tank. My Angel's also got more aggressive towards each other when I moved them to their own tank, besides adding some fast moving fish to distract them I'm not sure how to make them happy, LOL. I thought giving them their own tank might make them happy but they seemed happier when they had other fish to chase away ;) Now they spend the time chasing each other around the tank. Hope you have less territorial Angel fish than I do ;) LOL. Amber adonaikam wrote: > > > Hi all > > Just thought I would share with you what we have been watching for the > last half hour. Our Yellow Koi angel fish is laying eggs and the black > marble angel is trying to fertilize them. Its the first time for the > Koi so she is having lots of difficulties but is getting with practice. > > We will see if the eggs will survive - we expect they won't because > its a community tank and we are sure the other fish will eat the eggs > eventually. > > Just thought I'd share our excitement with you. > > Regards > Jasmine > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 43495	From: adonaikam	Date: 9/19/2009
Subject: Re: Koi angel is laying eggs

Hi Amber Yes, the angels did chase the other fish and I knew it would take place. We are intending on placing them into their own tank but first my partner wanted to paint the cupboard the tank will be going on. also wants to paint the walls (inside the house that is) where the tank is going and now he wants to do the floor. I'm guessing it will be a "little" while before the tank is up and running LOL. Oh - there is not eggs left this morning as we suspected. Have a great day. Jasmine --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, Amber Berglund <arberglund@...> wrote: > > You will find that as soon as the other fish start going after the eggs > that the Angel's should become more and more protective of them, so > watch your other fish carefully, Angel's will beat up on other fish if > they are in "their area". Very territorial fish when they are breeding, > mine had to go into their own 55 gallon tank because they were beating > up the other fish in the 125 gallon tank and making them all hang out on > one side of the tank while they had half all to themselves ;). > It's very neat to watch them lay eggs and care for them though, mine > tend to eat their eggs, have yet to have any survive since moving them > over into their own tank. My Angel's also got more aggressive towards > each other when I moved them to their own tank, besides adding some fast > moving fish to distract them I'm not sure how to make them happy, LOL. I > thought giving them their own tank might make them happy but they seemed > happier when they had other fish to chase away ;) Now they spend the > time chasing each other around the tank. > Hope you have less territorial Angel fish than I do ;) LOL. > > Amber > > adonaikam wrote: > > > > > > Hi all > > > > Just thought I would share with you what we have been watching for the > > last half hour. Our Yellow Koi angel fish is laying eggs and the black > > marble angel is trying to fertilize them. Its the first time for the > > Koi so she is having lots of difficulties but is getting with practice. > > > > We will see if the eggs will survive - we expect they won't because > > its a community tank and we are sure the other fish will eat the eggs > > eventually. > > > > Just thought I'd share our excitement with you. > > > > Regards > > Jasmine > > > > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 43496	From: bill 1433	Date: 9/20/2009
Subject: Black Algae Problem

I have started getting a black algae problem that I am trying to live with but have not been able to conquer.  The tanks are a standard 29-gallon Ram tank and a 20-gallon long with Neon Tetras in it.   I may have posted this problem a few months ago and have been living with it through cleaning and water changes but the problem has never really completely cleared.  Someone mentioned the use of Seachem's Excel to kill it but I'm not sure of proper dosage or how long.  All water tests are fine and pH is 7.0 Bill

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 43497	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 9/20/2009
Subject: Re: Black Algae Problem

Bill, Get some hydrogen peroxide (normally found in a 3% solution) and a syringe. With the syringe, apply the hydrogen peroxide directly to the black algae. This should kill the black algae without harming any plants or fish in the process, since hydrogen peroxide will break down fairly rapidly to the main components, water and oxygen, \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of bill 1433 Sent: Sunday, September 20, 2009 11:23 PM To: AquaticLife Subject: [AquaticLife] Black Algae Problem I have started getting a black algae problem that I am trying to live with but have not been able to conquer.  The tanks are a standard 29-gallon Ram tank and a 20-gallon long with Neon Tetras in it.   I may have posted this problem a few months ago and have been living with it through cleaning and water changes but the problem has never really completely cleared.  Someone mentioned the use of Seachem's Excel to kill it but I'm not sure of proper dosage or how long.  All water tests are fine and pH is 7.0 Bill

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 43498	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 9/20/2009
Subject: Re: Black Algae Problem

Bill, If I recall correctly, you do NOT have any live plants... right? Here's a thread about using HP for algae issues, including suggested dosages, etc. http://www.thekrib.com/Plants/Algae/hydrogen-peroxide.html And an article. http://www.malawicichlidhomepage.com/aquainfo/algae_peroxide.html The basic safe dose for fish and plants is 1 oz. per 10G per day, with PWC's between each treatment and do not dose the tank close to the intake to your filter(s). If you have sensitive shrimp or snails and someone mentioned oto's, then you might want to halve that dosage. One other question, are you sure you have "black algae". Algae is another thing in the aquarium hobby that suffers from common name abuse so look over these articles and I can give you several other sites about algae, if you don't have them already, for even more reading. You'll see what I mean about the common name problem. If your water testing is showing low levels of nitrates and other nitrogenous compounds, then you might want to check your phosphate levels in your source water and tank. Also, many fish foods are a BIG source of phosphates so check them also and maybe change over to a lower phosphate level food. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Steve Szabo Sent: Sunday, September 20, 2009 10:50 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Black Algae Problem Bill, Get some hydrogen peroxide (normally found in a 3% solution) and a syringe. With the syringe, apply the hydrogen peroxide directly to the black algae. This should kill the black algae without harming any plants or fish in the process, since hydrogen peroxide will break down fairly rapidly to the main components, water and oxygen, \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of bill 1433 Sent: Sunday, September 20, 2009 11:23 PM To: AquaticLife Subject: [AquaticLife] Black Algae Problem I have started getting a black algae problem that I am trying to live with but have not been able to conquer.  The tanks are a standard 29-gallon Ram tank and a 20-gallon long with Neon Tetras in it.   I may have posted this problem a few months ago and have been living with it through cleaning and water changes but the problem has never really completely cleared.  Someone mentioned the use of Seachem's Excel to kill it but I'm not sure of proper dosage or how long.  All water tests are fine and pH is 7.0 Bill

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 43499	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 9/20/2009
Subject: Re: Black Algae Problem

Black beard algae is very common for lower pH freshwater aquariums, I found that out in the links you gave me several months ago Lenny. So if that's what he has it doesn't surprise me, with his lower pH. He will probably constantly battle it. I have it in all of my tanks, mostly the 125 gallon, probably has better "food source" since it has the big fish in it and a lot of "smaller" fish. I think I have a defective severum, he's not eating my guppy fry or my platy fry... perhaps there's just enough plant growth in the tank now that they can hide better ;) Anyways, for some reason the black beard algae thrives in pH usually around 6 or lower. I think I don't have as much in my other tanks because the pH averages higher for some reason. Perhaps I have more crushed coral in those tanks than the 125 gallon. Do you already add some form of crushed coral/calcium to your tanks? Amber Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > > > Bill, > > If I recall correctly, you do NOT have any live plants... right? > > Here's a thread about using HP for algae issues, including suggested > dosages, etc. > > http://www.thekrib.com/Plants/Algae/hydrogen-peroxide.html > <http://www.thekrib.com/Plants/Algae/hydrogen-peroxide.html> > > And an article. > > http://www.malawicichlidhomepage.com/aquainfo/algae_peroxide.html > <http://www.malawicichlidhomepage.com/aquainfo/algae_peroxide.html> > > The basic safe dose for fish and plants is 1 oz. per 10G per day, with > PWC's > between each treatment and do not dose the tank close to the intake to > your > filter(s). If you have sensitive shrimp or snails and someone mentioned > oto's, then you might want to halve that dosage. > > One other question, are you sure you have "black algae". Algae is another > thing in the aquarium hobby that suffers from common name abuse so > look over > these articles and I can give you several other sites about algae, if you > don't have them already, for even more reading. You'll see what I mean > about the common name problem. > > If your water testing is showing low levels of nitrates and other > nitrogenous compounds, then you might want to check your phosphate > levels in > your source water and tank. Also, many fish foods are a BIG source of > phosphates so check them also and maybe change over to a lower phosphate > level food. > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right > side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On > Behalf Of Steve Szabo > Sent: Sunday, September 20, 2009 10:50 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Black Algae Problem > > Bill, > > Get some hydrogen peroxide (normally found in a 3% solution) and a > syringe. > With the syringe, apply the hydrogen peroxide directly to the black algae. > This should kill the black algae without harming any plants or fish in the > process, since hydrogen peroxide will break down fairly rapidly to the > main > components, water and oxygen, > > \\Steve// > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On > Behalf Of bill 1433 > Sent: Sunday, September 20, 2009 11:23 PM > To: AquaticLife > Subject: [AquaticLife] Black Algae Problem > > I have started getting a black algae problem that I am trying to live with > but have not been able to conquer. The tanks are a standard 29-gallon Ram > tank and a 20-gallon long with Neon Tetras in it. > > I may have posted this problem a few months ago and have been living > with it > through cleaning and water changes but the problem has never really > completely cleared. Someone mentioned the use of Seachem's Excel to > kill it > but I'm not sure of proper dosage or how long. All water tests are > fine and > pH is 7.0 > > Bill > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 43500	From: Donna Ransome	Date: 9/21/2009
Subject: Re: Black Algae Problem

I don’t know, I have it in my pH=7.8 tanks. All except the planted ones. _____ From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Amber Berglund Sent: Tuesday, September 22, 2009 1:32 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Black Algae Problem Black beard algae is very common for lower pH freshwater aquariums, I found that out in the links you gave me several months ago Lenny. So if that's what he has it doesn't surprise me, with his lower pH. He will probably constantly battle it. I have it in all of my tanks, mostly the 125 gallon, probably has better "food source" since it has the big fish in it and a lot of "smaller" fish. I think I have a defective severum, he's not eating my guppy fry or my platy fry... perhaps there's just enough plant growth in the tank now that they can hide better ;) Anyways, for some reason the black beard algae thrives in pH usually around 6 or lower. I think I don't have as much in my other tanks because the pH averages higher for some reason. Perhaps I have more crushed coral in those tanks than the 125 gallon. Do you already add some form of crushed coral/calcium to your tanks? Amber Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > > > Bill, > > If I recall correctly, you do NOT have any live plants... right? > > Here's a thread about using HP for algae issues, including suggested > dosages, etc. > > http://www.thekrib. <http://www.thekrib.com/Plants/Algae/hydrogen-peroxide.html> com/Plants/Algae/hydrogen-peroxide.html > <http://www.thekrib. <http://www.thekrib.com/Plants/Algae/hydrogen-peroxide.html> com/Plants/Algae/hydrogen-peroxide.html> > > And an article. > > http://www.malawici <http://www.malawicichlidhomepage.com/aquainfo/algae_peroxide.html> chlidhomepage.com/aquainfo/algae_peroxide.html > <http://www.malawici <http://www.malawicichlidhomepage.com/aquainfo/algae_peroxide.html> chlidhomepage.com/aquainfo/algae_peroxide.html> > > The basic safe dose for fish and plants is 1 oz. per 10G per day, with > PWC's > between each treatment and do not dose the tank close to the intake to > your > filter(s). If you have sensitive shrimp or snails and someone mentioned > oto's, then you might want to halve that dosage. > > One other question, are you sure you have "black algae". Algae is another > thing in the aquarium hobby that suffers from common name abuse so > look over > these articles and I can give you several other sites about algae, if you > don't have them already, for even more reading. You'll see what I mean > about the common name problem. > > If your water testing is showing low levels of nitrates and other > nitrogenous compounds, then you might want to check your phosphate > levels in > your source water and tank. Also, many fish foods are a BIG source of > phosphates so check them also and maybe change over to a lower phosphate > level food. > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> blogspot.com> > (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right > side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > [mailto:AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On > Behalf Of Steve Szabo > Sent: Sunday, September 20, 2009 10:50 PM > To: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Black Algae Problem > > Bill, > > Get some hydrogen peroxide (normally found in a 3% solution) and a > syringe. > With the syringe, apply the hydrogen peroxide directly to the black algae. > This should kill the black algae without harming any plants or fish in the > process, since hydrogen peroxide will break down fairly rapidly to the > main > components, water and oxygen, > > \\Steve// > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > [mailto:AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On > Behalf Of bill 1433 > Sent: Sunday, September 20, 2009 11:23 PM > To: AquaticLife > Subject: [AquaticLife] Black Algae Problem > > I have started getting a black algae problem that I am trying to live with > but have not been able to conquer. The tanks are a standard 29-gallon Ram > tank and a 20-gallon long with Neon Tetras in it. > > I may have posted this problem a few months ago and have been living > with it > through cleaning and water changes but the problem has never really > completely cleared. Someone mentioned the use of Seachem's Excel to > kill it > but I'm not sure of proper dosage or how long. All water tests are > fine and > pH is 7.0 > > Bill > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 43501	From: bill 1433	Date: 9/21/2009
Subject: Re: Black Algae Problem

Hi Len,   \\Steve// also suggested this BUT, even with the links you sent (some dated) it appears that there is great controversy over dosage.   The fish in the tank are 9 rams at 5 months old and 3 Cory cats.  Those Rams were a long time coming and I really don't want anything to happen to them.    On the other hand, some for other groups mention the use of SeaChem's Excel but again, nobody seems to have an dosage level for positive results.  Looking at their web-site they do mention this on their support page but since this is a by-pass type of reaction they are not being specific as to dosage either.  Unless they just mean to use the product by its instructions on the bottle to boost carbon for plants.  Information so far has been "ify" at best.  I don't want to hurt those Rams.   Bill--where Rams Rule! --- On Mon, 9/21/09, Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@...> wrote: > From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@...> > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Black Algae Problem > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Date: Monday, September 21, 2009, 1:29 AM > Bill, > > If I recall correctly, you do NOT have any live plants... > right? > > Here's a thread about using HP for algae issues, including > suggested > dosages, etc. > > http://www.thekrib.com/Plants/Algae/hydrogen-peroxide.html > > And an article. > > http://www.malawicichlidhomepage.com/aquainfo/algae_peroxide.html > > The basic safe dose for fish and plants is 1 oz. per 10G > per day, with PWC's > between each treatment and do not dose the tank close to > the intake to your > filter(s).  If you have sensitive shrimp or snails and > someone mentioned > oto's, then you might want to halve that dosage. > > One other question, are you sure you have "black > algae".  Algae is another > thing in the aquarium hobby that suffers from common name > abuse so look over > these articles and I can give you several other sites about > algae, if you > don't have them already, for even more reading.  > You'll see what I mean > about the common name problem. > > If your water testing is showing low levels of nitrates and > other > nitrogenous compounds, then you might want to check your > phosphate levels in > your source water and tank.  Also, many fish foods are > a BIG source of > phosphates so check them also and maybe change over to a > lower phosphate > level food. > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed > on the right > side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives > by Year, Month) > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] > On > Behalf Of Steve Szabo > Sent: Sunday, September 20, 2009 10:50 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Black Algae Problem > > Bill, > > Get some hydrogen peroxide (normally found in a 3% > solution) and a syringe. > With the syringe, apply the hydrogen peroxide directly to > the black algae. > This should kill the black algae without harming any plants > or fish in the > process, since hydrogen peroxide will break down fairly > rapidly to the main > components, water and oxygen, > > \\Steve// > > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] > On > Behalf Of bill 1433 > Sent: Sunday, September 20, 2009 11:23 PM > To: AquaticLife > Subject: [AquaticLife] Black Algae Problem > > I have started getting a black algae problem that I am > trying to live with > but have not been able to conquer.  The tanks are a > standard 29-gallon Ram > tank and a 20-gallon long with Neon Tetras in it. >   > I may have posted this problem a few months ago and have > been living with it > through cleaning and water changes but the problem has > never really > completely cleared.  Someone mentioned the use of > Seachem's Excel to kill it > but I'm not sure of proper dosage or how long.  All water > tests are fine and > pH is 7.0 > > Bill > > > > ------------------------------------ > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when > replying, Thank You. > ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> > ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> > PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is > NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of > the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new > subject (was re: old subject)" <- > <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. > , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. > > If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of > unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by > clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the home page.  > > Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com > to receive the digest, which includes up to 25 posts at a > time in a single email > > Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com > for the No E-Mail option where you will still be able to > read messages on the group and post replies. > > Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com > to receive individual e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links > > >     mailto:AquaticLife-fullfeatured@yahoogroups.com > > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 43502	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 9/21/2009
Subject: Re: Black Algae Problem

The dosing instructions are on the bottle, I would assume that you use it per the instructions on the bottle. When I started using it I noticed an immediate difference, but I refuse to by enough bottles to dose the 125 gallon for a week to see if it goes away ;) It did go away in my 55 gallon though when I was dosing with excel a few months back (before I switched my substrate over). It will kill a few easy to grow plants though, like Anacharis, and any Valisneria plant. There might be a couple others that don't like Excel too. Amber bill 1433 wrote: > > > Hi Len, > > \\Steve// also suggested this BUT, even with the links you sent (some > dated) it appears that there is great controversy over dosage. > > The fish in the tank are 9 rams at 5 months old and 3 Cory cats. > Those Rams were a long time coming and I really don't want anything to > happen to them. > > On the other hand, some for other groups mention the use of SeaChem's > Excel but again, nobody seems to have an dosage level for positive > results. Looking at their web-site they do mention this on their > support page but since this is a by-pass type of reaction they are not > being specific as to dosage either. Unless they just mean to use the > product by its instructions on the bottle to boost carbon for plants. > Information so far has been "ify" at best. I don't want to hurt those > Rams. > > Bill--where Rams Rule! > > --- On Mon, 9/21/09, Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@... > <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com>> wrote: > > > From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@... > <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com>> > > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Black Algae Problem > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > Date: Monday, September 21, 2009, 1:29 AM > > Bill, > > > > If I recall correctly, you do NOT have any live plants... > > right? > > > > Here's a thread about using HP for algae issues, including > > suggested > > dosages, etc. > > > > http://www.thekrib.com/Plants/Algae/hydrogen-peroxide.html > <http://www.thekrib.com/Plants/Algae/hydrogen-peroxide.html> > > > > And an article. > > > > http://www.malawicichlidhomepage.com/aquainfo/algae_peroxide.html > <http://www.malawicichlidhomepage.com/aquainfo/algae_peroxide.html> > > > > The basic safe dose for fish and plants is 1 oz. per 10G > > per day, with PWC's > > between each treatment and do not dose the tank close to > > the intake to your > > filter(s). If you have sensitive shrimp or snails and > > someone mentioned > > oto's, then you might want to halve that dosage. > > > > One other question, are you sure you have "black > > algae". Algae is another > > thing in the aquarium hobby that suffers from common name > > abuse so look over > > these articles and I can give you several other sites about > > algae, if you > > don't have them already, for even more reading. > > You'll see what I mean > > about the common name problem. > > > > If your water testing is showing low levels of nitrates and > > other > > nitrogenous compounds, then you might want to check your > > phosphate levels in > > your source water and tank. Also, many fish foods are > > a BIG source of > > phosphates so check them also and maybe change over to a > > lower phosphate > > level food. > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed > > on the right > > side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives > > by Year, Month) > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] > > On > > Behalf Of Steve Szabo > > Sent: Sunday, September 20, 2009 10:50 PM > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Black Algae Problem > > > > Bill, > > > > Get some hydrogen peroxide (normally found in a 3% > > solution) and a syringe. > > With the syringe, apply the hydrogen peroxide directly to > > the black algae. > > This should kill the black algae without harming any plants > > or fish in the > > process, since hydrogen peroxide will break down fairly > > rapidly to the main > > components, water and oxygen, > > > > \\Steve// > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] > > On > > Behalf Of bill 1433 > > Sent: Sunday, September 20, 2009 11:23 PM > > To: AquaticLife > > Subject: [AquaticLife] Black Algae Problem > > > > I have started getting a black algae problem that I am > > trying to live with > > but have not been able to conquer. The tanks are a > > standard 29-gallon Ram > > tank and a 20-gallon long with Neon Tetras in it. > > > > I may have posted this problem a few months ago and have > > been living with it > > through cleaning and water changes but the problem has > > never really > > completely cleared. Someone mentioned the use of > > Seachem's Excel to kill it > > but I'm not sure of proper dosage or how long. All water > > tests are fine and > > pH is 7.0 > > > > Bill > > > > > > > > ------------------------------------ > > > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when > > replying, Thank You. > > ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> > > ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> > > PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is > > NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of > > the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new > > subject (was re: old subject)" <- > > <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. > > , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. > > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. > > > > If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of > > unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by > > clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the home page. > > > > Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:aquaticlife-digest%40yahoogroups.com> > > to receive the digest, which includes up to 25 posts at a > > time in a single email > > > > Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:aquaticlife-nomail%40yahoogroups.com> > > for the No E-Mail option where you will still be able to > > read messages on the group and post replies. > > > > Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:aquaticlife-normal%40yahoogroups.com> > > to receive individual e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > mailto:AquaticLife-fullfeatured@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife-fullfeatured%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 43503	From: bill 1433	Date: 9/21/2009
Subject: Re: Black Algae Problem

No worries on the plants Amber-----------their plastic! But they also have some of the mess on them. Bill --- On Tue, 9/22/09, Amber Berglund <arberglund@...> wrote: > From: Amber Berglund <arberglund@...> > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Black Algae Problem > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Date: Tuesday, September 22, 2009, 10:10 AM > The dosing instructions are on the > bottle, I would assume that you use > it per the instructions on the bottle. When I started using > it I noticed > an immediate difference, but I refuse to by enough bottles > to dose the > 125 gallon for a week to see if it goes away ;) It did go > away in my 55 > gallon though when I was dosing with excel a few months > back (before I > switched my substrate over). > It will kill a few easy to grow plants though, like > Anacharis, and any > Valisneria plant. There might be a couple others that don't > like Excel too. > > Amber > > bill 1433 wrote: > >  > > > > Hi Len, > >  > > \\Steve// also suggested this BUT, even with the links > you sent (some > > dated) it appears that there is great controversy over > dosage. > >  > > The fish in the tank are 9 rams at 5 months old and 3 > Cory cats.  > > Those Rams were a long time coming and I really don't > want anything to > > happen to them. > >  > > On the other hand, some for other groups mention the > use of SeaChem's > > Excel but again, nobody seems to have an dosage level > for positive > > results.  Looking at their web-site they do > mention this on their > > support page but since this is a by-pass type of > reaction they are not > > being specific as to dosage either.  Unless they > just mean to use the > > product by its instructions on the bottle to boost > carbon for plants.  > > Information so far has been "ify" at best.  I > don't want to hurt those > > Rams. > >  > > Bill--where Rams Rule! > > > > --- On Mon, 9/21/09, Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@... > > > <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com>> wrote: > > > > > From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@... > > > <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com>> > > > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Black Algae Problem > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > Date: Monday, September 21, 2009, 1:29 AM > > > Bill, > > > > > > If I recall correctly, you do NOT have any live > plants... > > > right? > > > > > > Here's a thread about using HP for algae issues, > including > > > suggested > > > dosages, etc. > > > > > > http://www.thekrib.com/Plants/Algae/hydrogen-peroxide.html > > > <http://www.thekrib.com/Plants/Algae/hydrogen-peroxide.html> > > > > > > And an article. > > > > > > http://www.malawicichlidhomepage.com/aquainfo/algae_peroxide.html > > > <http://www.malawicichlidhomepage.com/aquainfo/algae_peroxide.html> > > > > > > The basic safe dose for fish and plants is 1 oz. > per 10G > > > per day, with PWC's > > > between each treatment and do not dose the tank > close to > > > the intake to your > > > filter(s).  If you have sensitive shrimp or > snails and > > > someone mentioned > > > oto's, then you might want to halve that dosage. > > > > > > One other question, are you sure you have "black > > > algae".  Algae is another > > > thing in the aquarium hobby that suffers from > common name > > > abuse so look over > > > these articles and I can give you several other > sites about > > > algae, if you > > > don't have them already, for even more reading. > > > You'll see what I mean > > > about the common name problem. > > > > > > If your water testing is showing low levels of > nitrates and > > > other > > > nitrogenous compounds, then you might want to > check your > > > phosphate levels in > > > your source water and tank.  Also, many fish > foods are > > > a BIG source of > > > phosphates so check them also and maybe change > over to a > > > lower phosphate > > > level food. > > > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > (Links to any articles referenced in above reply > are listed > > > on the right > > > side, alphabetically under Labels and also under > Archives > > > by Year, Month) > > > > > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] > > > On > > > Behalf Of Steve Szabo > > > Sent: Sunday, September 20, 2009 10:50 PM > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Black Algae Problem > > > > > > Bill, > > > > > > Get some hydrogen peroxide (normally found in a > 3% > > > solution) and a syringe. > > > With the syringe, apply the hydrogen peroxide > directly to > > > the black algae. > > > This should kill the black algae without harming > any plants > > > or fish in the > > > process, since hydrogen peroxide will break down > fairly > > > rapidly to the main > > > components, water and oxygen, > > > > > > \\Steve// > > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] > > > On > > > Behalf Of bill 1433 > > > Sent: Sunday, September 20, 2009 11:23 PM > > > To: AquaticLife > > > Subject: [AquaticLife] Black Algae Problem > > > > > > I have started getting a black algae problem that > I am > > > trying to live with > > > but have not been able to conquer.  The > tanks are a > > > standard 29-gallon Ram > > > tank and a 20-gallon long with Neon Tetras in > it. > > >  > > > I may have posted this problem a few months ago > and have > > > been living with it > > > through cleaning and water changes but the > problem has > > > never really > > > completely cleared.  Someone mentioned the > use of > > > Seachem's Excel to kill it > > > but I'm not sure of proper dosage or how > long.  All water > > > tests are fine and > > > pH is 7.0 > > > > > > Bill > > > > > > > > > > > > ------------------------------------ > > > > > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it > when > > > replying, Thank You. > > > > ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> > > > ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , > .·´¯`·..><((((º> > > > PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT > that is > > > NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the > TOPIC of > > > the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE > -> i.e. "new > > > subject (was re: old subject)" <- > > > > <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. > > > , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. > > > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this > matter. > > > > > > If you do not want all of the groups emails, > instead of > > > unsubscribing, you can change your delivery > option by > > > clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the home > page. > > > > > > Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com > > > <mailto:aquaticlife-digest%40yahoogroups.com> > > > to receive the digest, which includes up to 25 > posts at a > > > time in a single email > > > > > > Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com > > > <mailto:aquaticlife-nomail%40yahoogroups.com> > > > for the No E-Mail option where you will still be > able to > > > read messages on the group and post replies. > > > > > > Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com > > > <mailto:aquaticlife-normal%40yahoogroups.com> > > > to receive individual e-mails.Yahoo! Groups > Links > > > > > > > > >     mailto:AquaticLife-fullfeatured@yahoogroups.com > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife-fullfeatured%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ------------------------------------ > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when > replying, Thank You. > ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> > ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> > PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is > NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of > the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new > subject (was re: old subject)" <- > <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. > , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. > > If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of > unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by > clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the home page.  > > Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com > to receive the digest, which includes up to 25 posts at a > time in a single email > > Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com > for the No E-Mail option where you will still be able to > read messages on the group and post replies. > > Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com > to receive individual e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links > > >     mailto:AquaticLife-fullfeatured@yahoogroups.com > > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 43504	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 9/21/2009
Subject: Re: Black Algae Problem

I know TheKrib's thread is from late 1990's - early 2000's but IT is some of the best info out there on the net. EVERY forum thread that I've ever seen in any other forum still refers to TheKrib's thread as THE guide for using Hydrogen Peroxide. I know the dosages are or can be confusing in that thread as that was raw data compiled by posting around 20 experienced replies to make that page, which is why I included the one paragraph about what the safe dosage was, as I know it from reading many other forum threads over the years and using it myself in the past. 1 oz. per 10G has been used on tanks with fry but if you are more concerned, halve that dosage. Do the dosing during the day so the lights stay on for a while after the dose as light helps to break down the HP faster. Since you are using a syringe (minus needle) to apply the HP, it's the direct contact of the HP on the algae that does the job and then the HP breaks down into water and oxygen. Do a PWC the next day (or even be prepared to do a PWC after dosing if your fish are showing any signs of distress but the 1 oz. per 10G should be OK. 1 oz. equals around 30ml (actually 29.57ml if you have a highly calibrated syringe... lol). In TheKrib's page, there were people who experimented with using as much as 60ml per 10G (2 oz. per 10G) which was found to cause issues for sensitive snails and ghost shrimp and some fish. Others would dose with their filters off, worried about the HP causing harm to the filters, but that could also cause problems as it did not disperse/dilute the HP fast enough in the water column. Just leave your filters running BUT do not squirt the HP close enough to a filter intake. If you need to dose near the filter, unplug it for a moment, do the dose, use something to stir up the water in that area, then turn the filter back on. Leave the lights on for several hours after using HP. Do the PWC the next day and dose again as needed. As far as the Excel, which is an EXPENSIVE alternative treatment, here are a couple of forum threads on the topic, with some users using up to 5X the proper dose of Excel, every 3 days. http://www.aquaticplantcentral.com/forumapc/algae/3806-flourish-excel-got-ri d-all-my.html (25 page thread) SeaChem's official reply. http://www.seachem.com/support/forums/showthread.php?t=682 The top FAQ on this page is another of SeaChem's official replies. http://www.seachem.com/support/FAQs/FlourishExcel.html Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of bill 1433 Sent: Monday, September 21, 2009 8:40 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Black Algae Problem Hi Len,   \\Steve// also suggested this BUT, even with the links you sent (some dated) it appears that there is great controversy over dosage.   The fish in the tank are 9 rams at 5 months old and 3 Cory cats.  Those Rams were a long time coming and I really don't want anything to happen to them.    On the other hand, some for other groups mention the use of SeaChem's Excel but again, nobody seems to have an dosage level for positive results.  Looking at their web-site they do mention this on their support page but since this is a by-pass type of reaction they are not being specific as to dosage either.  Unless they just mean to use the product by its instructions on the bottle to boost carbon for plants.  Information so far has been "ify" at best.  I don't want to hurt those Rams.   Bill--where Rams Rule! --- On Mon, 9/21/09, Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@...> wrote: > From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@...> > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Black Algae Problem > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Date: Monday, September 21, 2009, 1:29 AM Bill, > > If I recall correctly, you do NOT have any live plants... > right? > > Here's a thread about using HP for algae issues, including suggested > dosages, etc. > > http://www.thekrib.com/Plants/Algae/hydrogen-peroxide.html > > And an article. > > http://www.malawicichlidhomepage.com/aquainfo/algae_peroxide.html > > The basic safe dose for fish and plants is 1 oz. per 10G per day, with > PWC's between each treatment and do not dose the tank close to the > intake to your filter(s).  If you have sensitive shrimp or snails and > someone mentioned oto's, then you might want to halve that dosage. > > One other question, are you sure you have "black algae".  Algae is > another thing in the aquarium hobby that suffers from common name > abuse so look over these articles and I can give you several other > sites about algae, if you don't have them already, for even more > reading. > You'll see what I mean > about the common name problem. > > If your water testing is showing low levels of nitrates and other > nitrogenous compounds, then you might want to check your phosphate > levels in your source water and tank.  Also, many fish foods are a BIG > source of phosphates so check them also and maybe change over to a > lower phosphate level food. > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles > referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically > under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] > On > Behalf Of Steve Szabo > Sent: Sunday, September 20, 2009 10:50 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Black Algae Problem > > Bill, > > Get some hydrogen peroxide (normally found in a 3% > solution) and a syringe. > With the syringe, apply the hydrogen peroxide directly to > the black algae. > This should kill the black algae without harming any plants > or fish in the > process, since hydrogen peroxide will break down fairly > rapidly to the main > components, water and oxygen, > > \\Steve// > > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] > On > Behalf Of bill 1433 > Sent: Sunday, September 20, 2009 11:23 PM > To: AquaticLife > Subject: [AquaticLife] Black Algae Problem > > I have started getting a black algae problem that I am > trying to live with > but have not been able to conquer.  The tanks are a > standard 29-gallon Ram > tank and a 20-gallon long with Neon Tetras in it. >   > I may have posted this problem a few months ago and have > been living with it > through cleaning and water changes but the problem has > never really > completely cleared.  Someone mentioned the use of > Seachem's Excel to kill it > but I'm not sure of proper dosage or how long.  All water > tests are fine and > pH is 7.0 > > Bill > > > > ------------------------------------ > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when > replying, Thank You. > ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> > ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> > PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is > NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of > the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new > subject (was re: old subject)" <- > <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. > , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. > > If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of > unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by > clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the home page.  > > Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com > to receive the digest, which includes up to 25 posts at a > time in a single email > > Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com > for the No E-Mail option where you will still be able to > read messages on the group and post replies. > > Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com > to receive individual e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links > > >     mailto:AquaticLife-fullfeatured@yahoogroups.com > > > ------------------------------------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the home page. Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com to receive the digest, which includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com for the No E-Mail option where you will still be able to read messages on the group and post replies. Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com to receive individual e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 43505	From: bill 1433	Date: 9/21/2009
Subject: Re: Black Algae Problem

Len, I understand what your trying to say and thanks for the help but the problem is the stuff is everywhere. Not real heavy and can usually just be wiped off with the clean cloth, the problems come in at the "where" part. For instance pieces of gravel, not all mind you just some, you know, so you'll notice it! What I need is a way to dose the whole tank at once without having to worry about checking for survivors when I'm done. The hp seems to infer direct contact. Working with a syringe it would probably take me to Christmas to get the whole tank done by this method, which is why I'm looking at Seachem. Now if there was some way of using the HP in this method it would be great but most articles seem to infer this direct contact approach. Thanks, Bill --- On Mon, 9/21/09, Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@...> wrote: > From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@...> > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Black Algae Problem > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Date: Monday, September 21, 2009, 12:21 PM > I know TheKrib's thread is from late > 1990's - early 2000's but IT is some of > the best info out there on the net.  EVERY forum > thread that I've ever seen > in any other forum still refers to TheKrib's thread as THE > guide for using > Hydrogen Peroxide.  I know the dosages are or can be > confusing in that > thread as that was raw data compiled by posting around 20 > experienced > replies to make that page, which is why I included the one > paragraph about > what the safe dosage was, as I know it from reading many > other forum threads > over the years and using it myself in the past. > > 1 oz. per 10G has been used on tanks with fry but if you > are more concerned, > halve that dosage.  Do the dosing during the day so > the lights stay on for a > while after the dose as light helps to break down the HP > faster.  Since you > are using a syringe (minus needle) to apply the HP, it's > the direct contact > of the HP on the algae that does the job and then the HP > breaks down into > water and oxygen.  Do a PWC the next day (or even be > prepared to do a PWC > after dosing if your fish are showing any signs of distress > but the 1 oz. > per 10G should be OK.  1 oz. equals around 30ml > (actually 29.57ml if you > have a highly calibrated syringe... lol). > > In TheKrib's page, there were people who experimented with > using as much as > 60ml per 10G (2 oz. per 10G) which was found to cause > issues for sensitive > snails and ghost shrimp and some fish.  Others would > dose with their filters > off, worried about the HP causing harm to the filters, but > that could also > cause problems as it did not disperse/dilute the HP fast > enough in the water > column.  Just leave your filters running BUT do not > squirt the HP close > enough to a filter intake.  If you need to dose near > the filter, unplug it > for a moment, do the dose, use something to stir up the > water in that area, > then turn the filter back on.  Leave the lights on for > several hours after > using HP.  Do the PWC the next day and dose again as > needed. > > > > As far as the Excel, which is an EXPENSIVE alternative > treatment, here are a > couple of forum threads on the topic, with some users using > up to 5X the > proper dose of Excel, every 3 days. > > http://www.aquaticplantcentral.com/forumapc/algae/3806-flourish-excel-got-ri > d-all-my.html (25 page thread) > > SeaChem's official reply. > http://www.seachem.com/support/forums/showthread.php?t=682 > > The top FAQ on this page is another of SeaChem's official > replies. > http://www.seachem.com/support/FAQs/FlourishExcel.html > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed > on the right > side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives > by Year, Month) > > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] > On > Behalf Of bill 1433 > Sent: Monday, September 21, 2009 8:40 AM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Black Algae Problem > > Hi Len, >   > \\Steve// also suggested this BUT, even with the links you > sent (some dated) > it appears that there is great controversy over dosage. >   > The fish in the tank are 9 rams at 5 months old and 3 Cory > cats.  Those Rams > were a long time coming and I really don't want anything to > happen to them.  >   > On the other hand, some for other groups mention the use of > SeaChem's Excel > but again, nobody seems to have an dosage level for > positive results.  > Looking at their web-site they do mention this on their > support page but > since this is a by-pass type of reaction they are not being > specific as to > dosage either.  Unless they just mean to use the product > by its instructions > on the bottle to boost carbon for plants.  Information so > far has been "ify" > at best.  I don't want to hurt those Rams. >   > Bill--where Rams Rule! > > --- On Mon, 9/21/09, Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@...> > wrote: > > > From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@...> > > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Black Algae Problem > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > Date: Monday, September 21, 2009, 1:29 AM Bill, > > > > If I recall correctly, you do NOT have any live > plants... > > right? > > > > Here's a thread about using HP for algae issues, > including suggested > > dosages, etc. > > > > http://www.thekrib.com/Plants/Algae/hydrogen-peroxide.html > > > > And an article. > > > > http://www.malawicichlidhomepage.com/aquainfo/algae_peroxide.html > > > > The basic safe dose for fish and plants is 1 oz. per > 10G per day, with > > PWC's between each treatment and do not dose the tank > close to the > > intake to your filter(s).  If you have sensitive > shrimp or snails and > > someone mentioned oto's, then you might want to halve > that dosage. > > > > One other question, are you sure you have "black > algae".  Algae is > > another thing in the aquarium hobby that suffers from > common name > > abuse so look over these articles and I can give you > several other > > sites about algae, if you don't have them already, for > even more > > reading. > > You'll see what I mean > > about the common name problem. > > > > If your water testing is showing low levels of > nitrates and other > > nitrogenous compounds, then you might want to check > your phosphate > > levels in your source water and tank.  Also, many > fish foods are a BIG > > source of phosphates so check them also and maybe > change over to a > > lower phosphate level food. > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to > any articles > > referenced in above reply are listed on the right > side, alphabetically > > under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] > > On > > Behalf Of Steve Szabo > > Sent: Sunday, September 20, 2009 10:50 PM > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Black Algae Problem > > > > Bill, > > > > Get some hydrogen peroxide (normally found in a 3% > > solution) and a syringe. > > With the syringe, apply the hydrogen peroxide directly > to > > the black algae. > > This should kill the black algae without harming any > plants > > or fish in the > > process, since hydrogen peroxide will break down > fairly > > rapidly to the main > > components, water and oxygen, > > > > \\Steve// > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] > > On > > Behalf Of bill 1433 > > Sent: Sunday, September 20, 2009 11:23 PM > > To: AquaticLife > > Subject: [AquaticLife] Black Algae Problem > > > > I have started getting a black algae problem that I > am > > trying to live with > > but have not been able to conquer.  The tanks are a > > standard 29-gallon Ram > > tank and a 20-gallon long with Neon Tetras in it. > >   > > I may have posted this problem a few months ago and > have > > been living with it > > through cleaning and water changes but the problem > has > > never really > > completely cleared.  Someone mentioned the use of > > Seachem's Excel to kill it > > but I'm not sure of proper dosage or how long.  All > water > > tests are fine and > > pH is 7.0 > > > > Bill > > > > > > > > ------------------------------------ > > > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when > > replying, Thank You. > > > ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> > > ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> > > PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that > is > > NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC > of > > the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> > i.e. "new > > subject (was re: old subject)" <- > > > <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. > > , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. > > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. > > > > If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead > of > > unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by > > clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the home page.  > > > > Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com > > to receive the digest, which includes up to 25 posts > at a > > time in a single email > > > > Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com > > for the No E-Mail option where you will still be able > to > > read messages on the group and post replies. > > > > Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com > > to receive individual e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > >     mailto:AquaticLife-fullfeatured@yahoogroups.com > > > > > > > > >       > > > ------------------------------------ > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when > replying, Thank You. > ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> > ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> > PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is > NOT important to > the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original > message MODIFY the SUBJECT > LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- > <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. > , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. > > If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of > unsubscribing, you > can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My > Membership" on the > home page.  > > Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com > to receive the digest, which > includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email > > Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com > for the No E-Mail option where > you will still be able to read messages on the group and > post replies. > > Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com > to receive individual > e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > > ------------------------------------ > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when > replying, Thank You. > ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> > ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> > PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is > NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of > the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new > subject (was re: old subject)" <- > <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. > , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. > > If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of > unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by > clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the home page.  > > Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com > to receive the digest, which includes up to 25 posts at a > time in a single email > > Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com > for the No E-Mail option where you will still be able to > read messages on the group and post replies. > > Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com > to receive individual e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links > > >     mailto:AquaticLife-fullfeatured@yahoogroups.com > > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 43506	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 9/21/2009
Subject: Re: Black Algae Problem

I guess the SeaChem Flourish Excel might be your preferred choice... BUT... remember that if you do not figure out the cause and fix the cause, it will simply return, so you still have to figure out the cause. Presuming you are keeping any cycling issues in check and thus keeping nitrates at a low enough level, below 20ppm, then I would highly suspect either too much lighting (how long do you leave them on each day and how much lighting do you have?) or direct sunlight or other nutrients (mainly phosphates) that you may be getting from your well water or from many foods that list phosphorous percentages (I've seen many that have MUCH higher levels than others). I'm looking at three of my store bought foods right now. Omega One Medium Goldfish Pellets lists "Min. Phosphorous (0.5%)". I'm not sure why it's in brackets ( ), as the other analysis levels are not in brackets... could this mean negative???, I have to check with Omega One. My Hikari Algae Wafers has "Guaranteed Analysis" as "Phosphorous min 0.7%" but then in a separate section called "Typical Analysis", it has "Phosphorous 1.4%". My Hagen Nutrafin Max Goldfish Flake Food has "Phosphorous min 0.5%, max 0.9%". I've seen other foods where they "advertise" on the package of having less than 3% phosphorous or something like that, which means they are simply taking advantage of the uninformed as those levels of phosphorous are 3X to 6X the levels of the three foods I just listed and even the Hikari Algae Wafers has nearly 2X to 3X more than the other two. As usual with store bought foods, check the ingredients. Last but not least, if you have bioload room in the tanks and cannot figure out the cause of the algae, you might want to consider a small algae eater. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of bill 1433 Sent: Monday, September 21, 2009 11:48 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Black Algae Problem Len, I understand what your trying to say and thanks for the help but the problem is the stuff is everywhere. Not real heavy and can usually just be wiped off with the clean cloth, the problems come in at the "where" part. For instance pieces of gravel, not all mind you just some, you know, so you'll notice it! What I need is a way to dose the whole tank at once without having to worry about checking for survivors when I'm done. The hp seems to infer direct contact. Working with a syringe it would probably take me to Christmas to get the whole tank done by this method, which is why I'm looking at Seachem. Now if there was some way of using the HP in this method it would be great but most articles seem to infer this direct contact approach. Thanks, Bill --- On Mon, 9/21/09, Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@...> wrote: > From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@...> > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Black Algae Problem > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Date: Monday, September 21, 2009, 12:21 PM I know TheKrib's thread is > from late 1990's - early 2000's but IT is some of the best info out > there on the net.  EVERY forum thread that I've ever seen in any other > forum still refers to TheKrib's thread as THE guide for using Hydrogen > Peroxide.  I know the dosages are or can be confusing in that thread > as that was raw data compiled by posting around 20 experienced replies > to make that page, which is why I included the one paragraph about > what the safe dosage was, as I know it from reading many other forum > threads over the years and using it myself in the past. > > 1 oz. per 10G has been used on tanks with fry but if you are more > concerned, halve that dosage.  Do the dosing during the day so the > lights stay on for a while after the dose as light helps to break down > the HP faster.  Since you are using a syringe (minus needle) to apply > the HP, it's the direct contact of the HP on the algae that does the > job and then the HP breaks down into water and oxygen.  Do a PWC the > next day (or even be prepared to do a PWC after dosing if your fish > are showing any signs of distress but the 1 oz. > per 10G should be OK.  1 oz. equals around 30ml (actually 29.57ml if > you have a highly calibrated syringe... lol). > > In TheKrib's page, there were people who experimented with using as > much as 60ml per 10G (2 oz. per 10G) which was found to cause issues > for sensitive snails and ghost shrimp and some fish.  Others would > dose with their filters off, worried about the HP causing harm to the > filters, but that could also cause problems as it did not > disperse/dilute the HP fast enough in the water column.  Just leave > your filters running BUT do not squirt the HP close enough to a filter > intake.  If you need to dose near the filter, unplug it for a moment, > do the dose, use something to stir up the water in that area, then > turn the filter back on.  Leave the lights on for several hours after > using HP.  Do the PWC the next day and dose again as needed. > > > > As far as the Excel, which is an EXPENSIVE alternative treatment, here > are a couple of forum threads on the topic, with some users using up > to 5X the proper dose of Excel, every 3 days. > > http://www.aquaticplantcentral.com/forumapc/algae/3806-flourish-excel-got-ri d-all-my.html (25 page thread) > > SeaChem's official reply. > http://www.seachem.com/support/forums/showthread.php?t=682 > > The top FAQ on this page is another of SeaChem's official replies. > http://www.seachem.com/support/FAQs/FlourishExcel.html > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles > referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically > under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) > > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] > On > Behalf Of bill 1433 > Sent: Monday, September 21, 2009 8:40 AM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Black Algae Problem > > Hi Len, >   > \\Steve// also suggested this BUT, even with the links you > sent (some dated) > it appears that there is great controversy over dosage. >   > The fish in the tank are 9 rams at 5 months old and 3 Cory > cats.  Those Rams > were a long time coming and I really don't want anything to > happen to them.  >   > On the other hand, some for other groups mention the use of > SeaChem's Excel > but again, nobody seems to have an dosage level for > positive results.  > Looking at their web-site they do mention this on their > support page but > since this is a by-pass type of reaction they are not being > specific as to > dosage either.  Unless they just mean to use the product > by its instructions > on the bottle to boost carbon for plants.  Information so > far has been "ify" > at best.  I don't want to hurt those Rams. >   > Bill--where Rams Rule! > > --- On Mon, 9/21/09, Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@...> > wrote: > > > From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@...> > > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Black Algae Problem > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > Date: Monday, September 21, 2009, 1:29 AM Bill, > > > > If I recall correctly, you do NOT have any live > plants... > > right? > > > > Here's a thread about using HP for algae issues, > including suggested > > dosages, etc. > > > > http://www.thekrib.com/Plants/Algae/hydrogen-peroxide.html > > > > And an article. > > > > http://www.malawicichlidhomepage.com/aquainfo/algae_peroxide.html > > > > The basic safe dose for fish and plants is 1 oz. per > 10G per day, with > > PWC's between each treatment and do not dose the tank > close to the > > intake to your filter(s).  If you have sensitive > shrimp or snails and > > someone mentioned oto's, then you might want to halve > that dosage. > > > > One other question, are you sure you have "black > algae".  Algae is > > another thing in the aquarium hobby that suffers from > common name > > abuse so look over these articles and I can give you > several other > > sites about algae, if you don't have them already, for > even more > > reading. > > You'll see what I mean > > about the common name problem. > > > > If your water testing is showing low levels of > nitrates and other > > nitrogenous compounds, then you might want to check > your phosphate > > levels in your source water and tank.  Also, many > fish foods are a BIG > > source of phosphates so check them also and maybe > change over to a > > lower phosphate level food. > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to > any articles > > referenced in above reply are listed on the right > side, alphabetically > > under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] > > On > > Behalf Of Steve Szabo > > Sent: Sunday, September 20, 2009 10:50 PM > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Black Algae Problem > > > > Bill, > > > > Get some hydrogen peroxide (normally found in a 3% > > solution) and a syringe. > > With the syringe, apply the hydrogen peroxide directly > to > > the black algae. > > This should kill the black algae without harming any > plants > > or fish in the > > process, since hydrogen peroxide will break down > fairly > > rapidly to the main > > components, water and oxygen, > > > > \\Steve// > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] > > On > > Behalf Of bill 1433 > > Sent: Sunday, September 20, 2009 11:23 PM > > To: AquaticLife > > Subject: [AquaticLife] Black Algae Problem > > > > I have started getting a black algae problem that I > am > > trying to live with > > but have not been able to conquer.  The tanks are a > > standard 29-gallon Ram > > tank and a 20-gallon long with Neon Tetras in it. > >   > > I may have posted this problem a few months ago and > have > > been living with it > > through cleaning and water changes but the problem > has > > never really > > completely cleared.  Someone mentioned the use of > > Seachem's Excel to kill it > > but I'm not sure of proper dosage or how long.  All > water > > tests are fine and > > pH is 7.0 > > > > Bill

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 43507	From: bill 1433	Date: 9/21/2009
Subject: Re: Black Algae Problem

Check on the algae eater but far as I know, none eat the black stuff. Your right, i've got to figure out the "Y" part. Lights on 10 to 12 but they are standard tubes, 17watts each for the 20 and 29. Food? Very high protein stuff from Ken's up in Mass. Fish love it. Bill --- On Mon, 9/21/09, Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@...> wrote: > From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@...> > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Black Algae Problem > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Date: Monday, September 21, 2009, 1:28 PM > I guess the SeaChem Flourish Excel > might be your preferred choice... BUT... > remember that if you do not figure out the cause and fix > the cause, it will > simply return, so you still have to figure out the cause. > > Presuming you are keeping any cycling issues in check and > thus keeping > nitrates at a low enough level, below 20ppm, then I would > highly suspect > either too much lighting (how long do you leave them on > each day and how > much lighting do you have?) or direct sunlight or other > nutrients (mainly > phosphates) that you may be getting from your well water or > from many foods > that list phosphorous percentages (I've seen many that have > MUCH higher > levels than others). > > I'm looking at three of my store bought foods right > now.  Omega One Medium > Goldfish Pellets lists "Min. Phosphorous (0.5%)".  I'm > not sure why it's in > brackets ( ), as the other analysis levels are not in > brackets... could this > mean negative???, I have to check with Omega One.  My > Hikari Algae Wafers > has "Guaranteed Analysis" as "Phosphorous min 0.7%" but > then in a separate > section called "Typical Analysis", it has "Phosphorous > 1.4%".  My Hagen > Nutrafin Max Goldfish Flake Food has "Phosphorous min 0.5%, > max 0.9%". > > I've seen other foods where they "advertise" on the package > of having less > than 3% phosphorous or something like that, which means > they are simply > taking advantage of the uninformed as those levels of > phosphorous are 3X to > 6X the levels of the three foods I just listed and even the > Hikari Algae > Wafers has nearly 2X to 3X more than the other two. > > As usual with store bought foods, check the ingredients. > > Last but not least, if you have bioload room in the tanks > and cannot figure > out the cause of the algae, you might want to consider a > small algae eater. > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed > on the right > side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives > by Year, Month) > > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] > On > Behalf Of bill 1433 > Sent: Monday, September 21, 2009 11:48 AM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Black Algae Problem > > Len, > > I understand what your trying to say and thanks for the > help but the problem > is the stuff is everywhere.  Not real heavy and can > usually just be wiped > off with the clean cloth, the problems come in at the > "where" part. > > For instance pieces of gravel, not all mind you just some, > you know, so > you'll notice it! > > What I need is a way to dose the whole tank at once without > having to worry > about checking for survivors when I'm done.  The hp > seems to infer direct > contact.  Working with a syringe it would probably > take me to Christmas to > get the whole tank done by this method, which is why I'm > looking at Seachem. > Now if there was some way of using the HP in this method it > would be great > but most articles seem to infer this direct contact > approach. > > Thanks, Bill > > > > --- On Mon, 9/21/09, Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@...> > wrote: > > > From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@...> > > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Black Algae Problem > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > Date: Monday, September 21, 2009, 12:21 PM I know > TheKrib's thread is > > from late 1990's - early 2000's but IT is some of the > best info out > > there on the net.  EVERY forum thread that I've ever > seen in any other > > forum still refers to TheKrib's thread as THE guide > for using Hydrogen > > Peroxide.  I know the dosages are or can be confusing > in that thread > > as that was raw data compiled by posting around 20 > experienced replies > > to make that page, which is why I included the one > paragraph about > > what the safe dosage was, as I know it from reading > many other forum > > threads over the years and using it myself in the > past. > > > > 1 oz. per 10G has been used on tanks with fry but if > you are more > > concerned, halve that dosage.  Do the dosing during > the day so the > > lights stay on for a while after the dose as light > helps to break down > > the HP faster.  Since you are using a syringe (minus > needle) to apply > > the HP, it's the direct contact of the HP on the algae > that does the > > job and then the HP breaks down into water and > oxygen.  Do a PWC the > > next day (or even be prepared to do a PWC after dosing > if your fish > > are showing any signs of distress but the 1 oz. > > per 10G should be OK.  1 oz. equals around 30ml > (actually 29.57ml if > > you have a highly calibrated syringe... lol). > > > > In TheKrib's page, there were people who experimented > with using as > > much as 60ml per 10G (2 oz. per 10G) which was found > to cause issues > > for sensitive snails and ghost shrimp and some fish.  > Others would > > dose with their filters off, worried about the HP > causing harm to the > > filters, but that could also cause problems as it did > not > > disperse/dilute the HP fast enough in the water > column.  Just leave > > your filters running BUT do not squirt the HP close > enough to a filter > > intake.  If you need to dose near the filter, unplug > it for a moment, > > do the dose, use something to stir up the water in > that area, then > > turn the filter back on.  Leave the lights on for > several hours after > > using HP.  Do the PWC the next day and dose again as > needed. > > > > > > > > As far as the Excel, which is an EXPENSIVE alternative > treatment, here > > are a couple of forum threads on the topic, with some > users using up > > to 5X the proper dose of Excel, every 3 days. > > > > > http://www.aquaticplantcentral.com/forumapc/algae/3806-flourish-excel-got-ri > d-all-my.html (25 page thread) > > > > SeaChem's official reply. > > http://www.seachem.com/support/forums/showthread.php?t=682 > > > > The top FAQ on this page is another of SeaChem's > official replies. > > http://www.seachem.com/support/FAQs/FlourishExcel.html > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to > any articles > > referenced in above reply are listed on the right > side, alphabetically > > under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) > > > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] > > On > > Behalf Of bill 1433 > > Sent: Monday, September 21, 2009 8:40 AM > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Black Algae Problem > > > > Hi Len, > >   > > \\Steve// also suggested this BUT, even with the links > you > > sent (some dated) > > it appears that there is great controversy over > dosage. > >   > > The fish in the tank are 9 rams at 5 months old and 3 > Cory > > cats.  Those Rams > > were a long time coming and I really don't want > anything to > > happen to them.  > >   > > On the other hand, some for other groups mention the > use of > > SeaChem's Excel > > but again, nobody seems to have an dosage level for > > positive results.  > > Looking at their web-site they do mention this on > their > > support page but > > since this is a by-pass type of reaction they are not > being > > specific as to > > dosage either.  Unless they just mean to use the > product > > by its instructions > > on the bottle to boost carbon for plants.  > Information so > > far has been "ify" > > at best.  I don't want to hurt those Rams. > >   > > Bill--where Rams Rule! > > > > --- On Mon, 9/21/09, Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@...> > > wrote: > > > > > From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@...> > > > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Black Algae Problem > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > > Date: Monday, September 21, 2009, 1:29 AM Bill, > > > > > > If I recall correctly, you do NOT have any live > > plants... > > > right? > > > > > > Here's a thread about using HP for algae issues, > > including suggested > > > dosages, etc. > > > > > > http://www.thekrib.com/Plants/Algae/hydrogen-peroxide.html > > > > > > And an article. > > > > > > http://www.malawicichlidhomepage.com/aquainfo/algae_peroxide.html > > > > > > The basic safe dose for fish and plants is 1 oz. > per > > 10G per day, with > > > PWC's between each treatment and do not dose the > tank > > close to the > > > intake to your filter(s).  If you have > sensitive > > shrimp or snails and > > > someone mentioned oto's, then you might want to > halve > > that dosage. > > > > > > One other question, are you sure you have "black > > algae".  Algae is > > > another thing in the aquarium hobby that suffers > from > > common name > > > abuse so look over these articles and I can give > you > > several other > > > sites about algae, if you don't have them > already, for > > even more > > > reading. > > > You'll see what I mean > > > about the common name problem. > > > > > > If your water testing is showing low levels of > > nitrates and other > > > nitrogenous compounds, then you might want to > check > > your phosphate > > > levels in your source water and tank.  Also, > many > > fish foods are a BIG > > > source of phosphates so check them also and > maybe > > change over to a > > > lower phosphate level food. > > > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to > > any articles > > > referenced in above reply are listed on the > right > > side, alphabetically > > > under Labels and also under Archives by Year, > Month) > > > > > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] > > > On > > > Behalf Of Steve Szabo > > > Sent: Sunday, September 20, 2009 10:50 PM > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Black Algae Problem > > > > > > Bill, > > > > > > Get some hydrogen peroxide (normally found in a > 3% > > > solution) and a syringe. > > > With the syringe, apply the hydrogen peroxide > directly > > to > > > the black algae. > > > This should kill the black algae without harming > any > > plants > > > or fish in the > > > process, since hydrogen peroxide will break down > > fairly > > > rapidly to the main > > > components, water and oxygen, > > > > > > \\Steve// > > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] > > > On > > > Behalf Of bill 1433 > > > Sent: Sunday, September 20, 2009 11:23 PM > > > To: AquaticLife > > > Subject: [AquaticLife] Black Algae Problem > > > > > > I have started getting a black algae problem that > I > > am > > > trying to live with > > > but have not been able to conquer.  The tanks > are a > > > standard 29-gallon Ram > > > tank and a 20-gallon long with Neon Tetras in > it. > > >   > > > I may have posted this problem a few months ago > and > > have > > > been living with it > > > through cleaning and water changes but the > problem > > has > > > never really > > > completely cleared.  Someone mentioned the use > of > > > Seachem's Excel to kill it > > > but I'm not sure of proper dosage or how long.  > All > > water > > > tests are fine and > > > pH is 7.0 > > > > > > Bill > > > > ------------------------------------ > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when > replying, Thank You. > ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> > ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> > PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is > NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of > the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new > subject (was re: old subject)" <- > <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. > , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. > > If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of > unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by > clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the home page.  > > Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com > to receive the digest, which includes up to 25 posts at a > time in a single email > > Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com > for the No E-Mail option where you will still be able to > read messages on the group and post replies. > > Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com > to receive individual e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links > > >     mailto:AquaticLife-fullfeatured@yahoogroups.com > > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 43508	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 9/21/2009
Subject: Re: Black Algae Problem

I do not know much about "Ken's up in Mass" so I Googled and found this, http://kensfish.com, and this page on their Ken's Premium Flake Food, http://kensfish.com/kensflake1.html, does not list the phosphorous content (You might want to email them and ask about the phosphorous content) Well, that was weird.... I did a copy/paste of what I could "see" on the above page, which was the next four paragraphs but when I pasted it here, a LOT more info showed up on other products as well. I've never seen this happen before but I'll leave it anyhow. (START OF COPY/PASTE) KENS PREMIUM TROPICAL FISH FLAKE: EXTRA STABILIZED VITAMIN C AND FRESH FISH OIL UPGRADE THIS COMPLETE DIET. FOR FRESHWATER AND MARINE FISH. INGREDIENTS: FISH MEAL, BREWERS DRIED YEAST, SOY FLOUR. OAT FLOUR, CORN GLUTEN MEAL, SHRIMP MEAL, DRIED PLANKTON, DRIED SPIRULINA ALGAE, DRIED KELP, LECITHIN, VITAMIN SUPPLEMENTS A, D3, B12, BIOTIN, THIAMINE (SOURCE OF VITAMIN B1), NATURAL COLORING, ASCOROBIC ACID ( SOURCE OF VITAMIN C). GUARANTEED ANALYSIS: CRUDE PROTEIN 44.0% MIN., CRUDE FAT 9.0%MIN., CRUDE FIBER 1.2% MAX., MOISTURE 9.0% MAX. ALL NATURAL INGREDIENTS. NO PRESERVATIVES. (THIS WAS SUPPOSED TO BE THE END OF THE COPY/PASTE BUT SEE DOWN BELOW MY SIG FOR MORE INFO THAT SHOWED UP WITH THE PASTE, AND I STILL DO NOT KNOW WHY... MAYBE \\STEVE// HAS SEEN THIS BEFORE) Anyhow, as you can see, no mention of Phosphorous content. I'm not so sure it's as "premium" as it claims. The ingredients look very similar to the ingredients on many of the "cheap" fish foods. Other than the "Fish Meal" as the first ingredient, the next four are just fillers, IMO, before it returns to what looks like decent ingredients again, like the "Dried Plankton, Dried Spirulina Algae, Dried Kelp" and then it goes into the vitamins section. For comparison, here's the ingredients on my Omega One Goldfish Pellets (Medium): http://www.omegasea.net/medium_goldfish_pellets.html INGREDIENTS: Whole Salmon, Whole Herring, Whole Shrimp, Wheat Flour, Wheat Gluten, Fresh Kelp, Soy Flour, Astaxanthin, L-Ascorbyl-2-Phosphate (Source of Vitamin C), Natural and Artificial Colors, Vitamin A Acetate, Vitamin D3 Supplement, Vitamin E Supplement, Vitamin B12 Supplement, Riboflavin, Niacin, Pantothenic Acid, Folic Acid, Biotin, Inositol, Tocopherol (Preservative), Ethoxyquin (Preservative). Yes, http://www.OmegaSea.net, makers of Omega One fish foods, does have the "Wheat Flour", "Wheat Gluten" and "Soy Flour" fillers but they are the 3rd and 4th and 6th ingredients, not the 2nd, 3rd, 4th and 5th ingredients. Further, "Fish Meal", the first ingredient in Ken's, is a nice way of saying ground up fish by-products, whereas the Omega One has "Whole Salmon, Whole Herring, Whole Shrimp" listed as the 1st, 2nd and 3rd ingredients. Now, all this said, I'm certainly NOT saying that Ken's is a bad product, as it's very similar to the Nutrafin Max Goldfish Flakes which has "Fish Meal, Corn Meal, Wheat Flour, Soy Flour, Oat Meal, Squid Meal, Fish Liver Meal...." as the primary ingredients in it and it is also listed as a "premium" food according to Hagen... but my preference is to get away from foods that consist of too many un-natural products like the flour based fillers that make up so many of the ingredients in our pet foods. After all, when I go to the store and buy Green Peas, even the el cheapo generic canned ones, I DO NOT want wheat gluten, soy flour or any other kinds of flour's listed in the ingredients... just "Green Peas" and maybe some water and probably salt and preservatives. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) (HERE'S THE OTHER STUFF THAT COPY/PASTED FROM THE KEN'S PAGE WHEN I ONLY COPY/PASTED FOUR PARAGRAPHS... STILL NOT SURE WHY THE REST OF THIS SHOWED UP) KENS PREMIUM CHICKEN LIVER FLAKE: EXTRA STABILIZED VITAMIN C AND FRESH FISH OIL UPGRADE THIS COMPLETE DIET ALONG WITH THE MAIN INGREDIENT OF FRESH CHICKEN LIVER. THE HIGH PROTEIN MAKES THIS EXCELLENT FOR FRY AS WELL AS GUPPIES AND OTHER LIVE BEARERS. INGREDIENTS: CHICKEN LIVER, FISH MEAL, BREWERS DRIED YEAST, SOY FLOUR. OAT FLOUR, CORN GLUTEN MEAL, SHRIMP MEAL, DRIED PLANKTON, DRIED SPIRULINA ALGAE, DRIED KELP, LECITHIN, VITAMIN SUPPLEMENTS A, D3, B12, BIOTIN, THIAMINE (SOURCE OF VITAMIN B1), NATURAL COLORING, ASCOROBIC ACID ( SOURCE OF VITAMIN C). GUARANTEED ANALYSIS: CRUDE PROTEIN 48.0% MIN., CRUDE FAT 9.0%MIN., CRUDE FIBER 5.0% MAX., MOISTURE 9.0% MAX. ALL NATURAL INGREDIENTS, EXCEPT SOME ARTIFICIAL COLORING. NO PRESERVATIVES. FOR PHOTO: 1/2 LB $4.25 1 LB $8.00 5 LB $35.00 KENS PREMIUM MARINE FLAKE: THIS PREMIUM FLAKE IS EXCELLENT FOR MARINE FISH. GREAT AS USING FOR A STARTER FLAKE FOR YOUNG FRESHWATER FRY AS WELL. INGREDIENTS: WHITE FISH MEAL & WHITE FISH PROTEIN CONCENTRATE. OAT, WHEAT, SOYBEEN MEAL FLOURS, SHRIMP, PLANKTON & KRILL MEAL, FISH OIL, LECITHIN, VITAMIN MINERAL SUPPLEMENT, SPIRULINA, FROZEN BRINE SHRIMP, KELP MEAL, METHIONINE.ASCORBIC ACID (SOURCE OF VITAMIN C).NATURAL AND SOME ARTIFICIAL COLORING. GUARANTEED ANALYSIS: CRUDE PROTEIN 46.0% MIN., CRUDE FAT 5.0% MIN., CRUDE FIBER 3.0% MAX., MOISTURE 8.0% MAX., ALL NATURAL INGREDIENTS, EXCEPT FOR SOME ARTIFICIAL COLORING. NO PRESERVATIVES. 1/2 LB $4.25 1 LB $7.95 5 LB $37.75 FOR PHOTO: KENS PREMIUM SPIRULINA + FLAKE WITH GARLIC & PAPRIKA: THIS IS REMARKABLE FORTIFIED FOOD THAT WILL KEEP YOUR TROPHEUS AND OTHER FISH IN TOP FORM.THIS CONTAINS A HIGH AMOUNT OF SPIRULINA AND THE ADDED INGREDIENT OF GARLIC & PAPRIKA! INGREDIENTS: FISH MEAL, DRIED BREWERS YEAST, SOY FLOUR, WHEAT FLOUR, OAT FLOUR, CORN GLUTEN MEAL, DRIED SPIRULINA ALGEA, GARLIC, SHRIMP MEAL, DRIED KRILL, FISH OIL, PAPRIKA, LECITHIN, VITAMIN SUPPLEMENTS A, D3, B12, BIOTIN, NATURAL COLORING, ASCORBIC ACID (SOURCE OF VITAMIN C). GUARANTEED ANALYSIS: CRUDE PROTEIN 45.0% MIN., CRUDE FAT 4.0% MAX., CRUDE FIBER 3.2% MAX., MOISTURE 8.0% MAX. ALL NATURAL INGREDIENTS, EXCEPT FOR SOME ARTIFICIAL COLORING. NO PRESERVATIVES. 1/2 LB $4.95 1 LB $9.75 5 LB $47.75 FOR PHOTO: KENS PREMIUM SUPER BRINE SHRIMP FLAKE: THIS IS EXCELLENT FOR GROWTH DUE TO THE HIGH AMOUNTS OF CRUDE PROTEIN. EXCELLENT DIGESTABILITY AND HIGH AMOUNTS BRINE SHRIMP MAKE UP THIS HIGH GRADE FORMULA. INGREDIENTS: FISH MEAL, SHRIMP MEAL, SOY FLOUR, SOY PROTEIN ISOLATE, FISH PROTEIN CONCENTRATE, BREWERS DRIED YEAST, CORN STARCH, SOY LECITHIN, DRIED BRINE SHRIMP, SODIUM ALGINATE, FISH OIL, MENADIONE DIMETHYIPYRIMIDINOL BISULFATE (SOURCE OF VITAMIN K), D1-ALPHA TOCOPHERYL ACETATE, INOSITOL, PARAMINO BENZOIC ACID, NIACIN, CALCIUM PANTOTHENATE, RIBOFLAVIN, BIOTIN, PYRIDOXINE HYDROCHLORIDE, THIAMINE MONONITRATE, VITAMIN A ACETATE, VITAMIN B12, VITAMIN D3 SUPPLEMENT, SQUIS MEAL, EMULSIFIER, CHOLINE CHLORIDE, MANGANESE PROTEINATE, ZINC PROTEINATE, COPPER PROTEINATE, CALCIUM IODATE, IRON PEOTEINATE, COBALT PROTEINATE, CALCIUM CARBONATE, SODIUM SELENITE, L-ASCORBYL-2POLYPHOSPHATE (SOURCE OF VITAMIN C). GUARANTEED ANALYSIS: CRUDE PROTEIN 50.0% MIN., CRUDE FAT 12.0% MAX., CRUDE FIBER 3.0% MAX., MOISTURE 10.0% MAX. SOME ARTIFICIAL COLORING AND PRESERVATIVES. FOR PHOTO: 1/2 LB $4.75 1 LB $9.25 5 LB $44.25 KENS PREMIUM COLOR FLAKE WITH NATUROSE ADDED: GREAT FOR ADDING COLOR! NATURE'S OWN COLORING FOOD! BRINGS OUT THE RADIENT NATURAL COLORS OF YOUR BEST FRESHWATER AND SALTWATER FISH! NOW WITH THE ADDED INGREDIENT OF NATUROSE FOR ADDED COLOR ENHANCEMENT. INGREDIENTS: FISH MEAL BLEND, SPECIAL MIX: DRIED PLANKTON, SHRIMP, KRILL AND DRIED SPIRULINA ALGEA, WHEAT GLUTEN MEAL, OAT FLOUR, BREWERS DRIED YEAST, CAROTENE, NATUROSE, LECITHIN, SOY OIL, FISH OIL, VITAMIN SUPPLEMENTS, A, D3, B12, BIOTIN, NATURAL & ARTIFICIAL COLORING, ASCORBIC ACID (SOURCE OF VITAMIN C). GUARANTEED ANALYSIS: CRUDE PROTEIN 44.0% MIN., CRUDE FAT 12.0% MIN., CRUDE FIBER 8.0% MAX., MOISTURE 8.0% MAX. ALL NATURAL INGREDIENTS. NO PRESERVATIVES. FOR PHOTO: 1/2 LB $4.50 1 LB $8.75 5 LB $42.00 KENS PREMIUM BEEFHEART FLAKE: EXCELLENT DIET FOR ANGELS AND DISCUS. MADE WITH REAL BEEFHEARTS TO HELP BRING YOUR FISH INTO FULL SPAWNING CONDITION. ALSO EXCELLENT FOR OTHER TROPICAL FISH. Main Ingredients: Fish Meal, Wheat Flour, Soy Flour, Shrimp Meal, Brewers Dried Yeast, Krill Meal, Fish Oil, Soy Lecithin, Spirulina, Emulsifier, Beefhearts, Choline Chloride, Sorbitol, Propylene Glycol, Artificial Color, Vitamin A, Vitamin D3 Supplement, d1-Alpha Tocopheryl Acetate (Vitamin E Supplement), Vitamin B12 Supplement, Riboflavin, Niacin, Calcium Pantothenate, Menadione Sodium Bisulfite Complex (source of vitamin K Activity), Folic Acid, Thiamine Mononitrate, Pyridoxine Hydrochloride, Biotin, Manganese Proteinate, Zinc Proteinate, Copper Proteinate, Calcium Iodate, Iron Proteinate, Cobolt Proteinate, Calcium Carbonate, Sodium Selenite, Anise Oil, L-Ascorbyl-2-Polyphosphate (source or Vitamin C), Xanthophyll, Canthaxanthin, Ethoxyquin, TBHQ (preservative). Guaranteed Analysis: Crude Protein 46.0% Min., Crude Fat 10.0% Min., Crude Fiber 3.0% Max., Moisture 10.0% Max. FOR PHOTO: 1/2 LB $4.50 1 LB $8.75 5 LB $42.00 KENS PREMIUM SUPER TROPICAL FLAKE: This is a higher protein general flake diet for all your tropical fish. This tropical fish flake contains spirulina, krill, Shrimp meal to aid in coloration. Also contains highly digestible marine proteins to reduce excreted waste. Ingredients: Fish Meal, Wheat Flour, Soy Flour, Shrimp Meal, Brewers Dried Yeast, Krill Meal, Soy Lecithin, Fish Oil, Emulsifier, Choline Chloride, Sorbitol, Propylene Glycol, Artificial Color, Spirulina, Yeast Extract, Calcium Phosphate, Anise Oil, Xanthophyll Pigments, L-Ascorbyl-2- Polyphosphate (source of Vitamin C), Canthaxanthin, Manganese Proteinate, Zinc Proteinate, Copper Proteinate, Calcium Iodate, Iron Proteinate, Cobalt Proteinate, Calcium Carbonate, Sodium Selenite, Vitamin A Acetate, Vitamin D3 Supplement, dl-Alpha Tocopheryl Acetate (Vitamin E Supplement), Vitamin B12 Supplement, Riboflavin Supplement, Niacin, Calcium Pantothenate, Menadione Sodium Bisulfite Complex (source of Vitamin K Activity), Folic Acid, Thiamine Mononitrate, Pyridoxine Hydrochloride, Biotin, Ethoxyquin, TBHQ (preservative). Guaranteed Analysis: Min. Protein 45.0%, Min. Crude Fat 9.0%, Max Crude Fiber 3.0%, Max Moisture 10.0%, FOR PHOTO: 1/2 LB $4.00 1 LB $7.15 5 LB $33.75 KENS PREMIUM HATCHERY FLAKE: EXTRA STABILIZED VITAMIN C AND FRESH FISH OIL UPGRADE THIS COMPLETE DIET. FOR FRESHWATER AND MARINE FISH. INGREDIENTS: FISH MEAL, BREWERS DRIED YEAST, SOY FLOUR. OAT FLOUR, CORN GLUTEN MEAL, SHRIMP MEAL, DRIED PLANKTON, DRIED SPIRULINA ALGAE, DRIED KELP, LECITHIN, VITAMIN SUPPLEMENTS A, D3, B12, BIOTIN, THIAMINE (SOURCE OF VITAMIN B1), NATURAL COLORING, ASCOROBIC ACID ( SOURCE OF VITAMIN C). GUARANTEED ANALYSIS: CRUDE PROTEIN 44.0% MIN., CRUDE FAT 9.0%MIN., CRUDE FIBER 1.2% MAX., MOISTURE 9.0% MAX. ALL NATURAL INGREDIENTS. NO PRESERVATIVES. FOR PHOTO: 1/2 LB $3.50 1 LB $6.25 5 LB $29.75 -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of bill 1433 Sent: Monday, September 21, 2009 12:44 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Black Algae Problem Check on the algae eater but far as I know, none eat the black stuff. Your right, i've got to figure out the "Y" part. Lights on 10 to 12 but they are standard tubes, 17watts each for the 20 and 29. Food? Very high protein stuff from Ken's up in Mass. Fish love it. Bill --- On Mon, 9/21/09, Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@...> wrote: > From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@...> > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Black Algae Problem > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Date: Monday, September 21, 2009, 1:28 PM I guess the SeaChem Flourish > Excel might be your preferred choice... BUT... > remember that if you do not figure out the cause and fix the cause, it > will simply return, so you still have to figure out the cause. > > Presuming you are keeping any cycling issues in check and thus keeping > nitrates at a low enough level, below 20ppm, then I would highly > suspect either too much lighting (how long do you leave them on each > day and how much lighting do you have?) or direct sunlight or other > nutrients (mainly > phosphates) that you may be getting from your well water or from many > foods that list phosphorous percentages (I've seen many that have MUCH > higher levels than others). > > I'm looking at three of my store bought foods right now.  Omega One > Medium Goldfish Pellets lists "Min. Phosphorous (0.5%)".  I'm not sure > why it's in brackets ( ), as the other analysis levels are not in > brackets... could this mean negative???, I have to check with Omega > One.  My Hikari Algae Wafers has "Guaranteed Analysis" as "Phosphorous > min 0.7%" but then in a separate section called "Typical Analysis", it > has "Phosphorous 1.4%".  My Hagen Nutrafin Max Goldfish Flake Food has > "Phosphorous min 0.5%, max 0.9%". > > I've seen other foods where they "advertise" on the package of having > less than 3% phosphorous or something like that, which means they are > simply taking advantage of the uninformed as those levels of > phosphorous are 3X to 6X the levels of the three foods I just listed > and even the Hikari Algae Wafers has nearly 2X to 3X more than the > other two. > > As usual with store bought foods, check the ingredients. > > Last but not least, if you have bioload room in the tanks and cannot > figure out the cause of the algae, you might want to consider a small > algae eater. > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles > referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically > under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) > > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] > On > Behalf Of bill 1433 > Sent: Monday, September 21, 2009 11:48 AM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Black Algae Problem > > Len, > > I understand what your trying to say and thanks for the > help but the problem > is the stuff is everywhere.  Not real heavy and can > usually just be wiped > off with the clean cloth, the problems come in at the > "where" part. > > For instance pieces of gravel, not all mind you just some, > you know, so > you'll notice it! > > What I need is a way to dose the whole tank at once without > having to worry > about checking for survivors when I'm done.  The hp > seems to infer direct > contact.  Working with a syringe it would probably > take me to Christmas to > get the whole tank done by this method, which is why I'm > looking at Seachem. > Now if there was some way of using the HP in this method it > would be great > but most articles seem to infer this direct contact > approach. > > Thanks, Bill > > > > --- On Mon, 9/21/09, Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@...> > wrote: > > > From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@...> > > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Black Algae Problem > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > Date: Monday, September 21, 2009, 12:21 PM I know > TheKrib's thread is > > from late 1990's - early 2000's but IT is some of the > best info out > > there on the net.  EVERY forum thread that I've ever > seen in any other > > forum still refers to TheKrib's thread as THE guide > for using Hydrogen > > Peroxide.  I know the dosages are or can be confusing > in that thread > > as that was raw data compiled by posting around 20 > experienced replies > > to make that page, which is why I included the one > paragraph about > > what the safe dosage was, as I know it from reading > many other forum > > threads over the years and using it myself in the > past. > > > > 1 oz. per 10G has been used on tanks with fry but if > you are more > > concerned, halve that dosage.  Do the dosing during > the day so the > > lights stay on for a while after the dose as light > helps to break down > > the HP faster.  Since you are using a syringe (minus > needle) to apply > > the HP, it's the direct contact of the HP on the algae > that does the > > job and then the HP breaks down into water and > oxygen.  Do a PWC the > > next day (or even be prepared to do a PWC after dosing > if your fish > > are showing any signs of distress but the 1 oz. > > per 10G should be OK.  1 oz. equals around 30ml > (actually 29.57ml if > > you have a highly calibrated syringe... lol). > > > > In TheKrib's page, there were people who experimented > with using as > > much as 60ml per 10G (2 oz. per 10G) which was found > to cause issues > > for sensitive snails and ghost shrimp and some fish.  > Others would > > dose with their filters off, worried about the HP > causing harm to the > > filters, but that could also cause problems as it did > not > > disperse/dilute the HP fast enough in the water > column.  Just leave > > your filters running BUT do not squirt the HP close > enough to a filter > > intake.  If you need to dose near the filter, unplug > it for a moment, > > do the dose, use something to stir up the water in > that area, then > > turn the filter back on.  Leave the lights on for > several hours after > > using HP.  Do the PWC the next day and dose again as > needed. > > > > > > > > As far as the Excel, which is an EXPENSIVE alternative > treatment, here > > are a couple of forum threads on the topic, with some > users using up > > to 5X the proper dose of Excel, every 3 days. > > > > > http://www.aquaticplantcentral.com/forumapc/algae/3806-flourish-excel-got-ri > d-all-my.html (25 page thread) > > > > SeaChem's official reply. > > http://www.seachem.com/support/forums/showthread.php?t=682 > > > > The top FAQ on this page is another of SeaChem's > official replies. > > http://www.seachem.com/support/FAQs/FlourishExcel.html > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to > any articles > > referenced in above reply are listed on the right > side, alphabetically > > under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) > > > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] > > On > > Behalf Of bill 1433 > > Sent: Monday, September 21, 2009 8:40 AM > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Black Algae Problem > > > > Hi Len, > >   > > \\Steve// also suggested this BUT, even with the links > you > > sent (some dated) > > it appears that there is great controversy over > dosage. > >   > > The fish in the tank are 9 rams at 5 months old and 3 > Cory > > cats.  Those Rams > > were a long time coming and I really don't want > anything to > > happen to them.  > >   > > On the other hand, some for other groups mention the > use of > > SeaChem's Excel > > but again, nobody seems to have an dosage level for > > positive results.  > > Looking at their web-site they do mention this on > their > > support page but > > since this is a by-pass type of reaction they are not > being > > specific as to > > dosage either.  Unless they just mean to use the > product > > by its instructions > > on the bottle to boost carbon for plants.  > Information so > > far has been "ify" > > at best.  I don't want to hurt those Rams. > >   > > Bill--where Rams Rule! > > > > --- On Mon, 9/21/09, Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@...> > > wrote: > > > > > From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@...> > > > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Black Algae Problem > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > > Date: Monday, September 21, 2009, 1:29 AM Bill, > > > > > > If I recall correctly, you do NOT have any live > > plants... > > > right? > > > > > > Here's a thread about using HP for algae issues, > > including suggested > > > dosages, etc. > > > > > > http://www.thekrib.com/Plants/Algae/hydrogen-peroxide.html > > > > > > And an article. > > > > > > http://www.malawicichlidhomepage.com/aquainfo/algae_peroxide.html > > > > > > The basic safe dose for fish and plants is 1 oz. > per > > 10G per day, with > > > PWC's between each treatment and do not dose the > tank > > close to the > > > intake to your filter(s).  If you have > sensitive > > shrimp or snails and > > > someone mentioned oto's, then you might want to > halve > > that dosage. > > > > > > One other question, are you sure you have "black > > algae".  Algae is > > > another thing in the aquarium hobby that suffers > from > > common name > > > abuse so look over these articles and I can give > you > > several other > > > sites about algae, if you don't have them > already, for > > even more > > > reading. > > > You'll see what I mean > > > about the common name problem. > > > > > > If your water testing is showing low levels of > > nitrates and other > > > nitrogenous compounds, then you might want to > check > > your phosphate > > > levels in your source water and tank.  Also, > many > > fish foods are a BIG > > > source of phosphates so check them also and > maybe > > change over to a > > > lower phosphate level food. > > > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to > > any articles > > > referenced in above reply are listed on the > right > > side, alphabetically > > > under Labels and also under Archives by Year, > Month) > > > > > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] > > > On > > > Behalf Of Steve Szabo > > > Sent: Sunday, September 20, 2009 10:50 PM > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Black Algae Problem > > > > > > Bill, > > > > > > Get some hydrogen peroxide (normally found in a > 3% > > > solution) and a syringe. > > > With the syringe, apply the hydrogen peroxide > directly > > to > > > the black algae. > > > This should kill the black algae without harming > any > > plants > > > or fish in the > > > process, since hydrogen peroxide will break down > > fairly > > > rapidly to the main > > > components, water and oxygen, > > > > > > \\Steve// > > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] > > > On > > > Behalf Of bill 1433 > > > Sent: Sunday, September 20, 2009 11:23 PM > > > To: AquaticLife > > > Subject: [AquaticLife] Black Algae Problem > > > > > > I have started getting a black algae problem that > I > > am > > > trying to live with > > > but have not been able to conquer.  The tanks > are a > > > standard 29-gallon Ram > > > tank and a 20-gallon long with Neon Tetras in > it. > > >   > > > I may have posted this problem a few months ago > and > > have > > > been living with it > > > through cleaning and water changes but the > problem > > has > > > never really > > > completely cleared.  Someone mentioned the use > of > > > Seachem's Excel to kill it > > > but I'm not sure of proper dosage or how long.  > All > > water > > > tests are fine and > > > pH is 7.0 > > > > > > Bill

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 43509	From: kuradi8	Date: 9/21/2009
Subject: Re: Air Pumps

> Over a week ago, Kai wrote: > > For those of you who might remember my air pump dilemma, > > Well, I took the plunge. I'd had my eye on a Rena 400 but got a good deal on [a General Hydroponics air pump] instead. > A couple of you replied that I hadn't made such a good choice and fortunately, that deal fell through. I finally got a Rena 400 and hooked it up this morning. Insert simian chest beating here. "MORE POWER!" My old Whisper-60's output was oh so wimpy but the Rena turned my two 4" air disks into hot tub jets. They are happily bubbling away and the fish all seem to be taking turns playing in the bubbles. "Ooooooh, it tickles!" And it looks so much nicer too -- a couple of nice columns of bubbles instead of occasional spastic burps between little sizzles. Thanks for all your help and encouragement! ~Kai

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 43510	From: yofiguy	Date: 9/21/2009
Subject: Re: OT: For Our Hebrew Members

--- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Steve Szabo" <steve@...> wrote: > > Shana tova! > > For those of you who may be a bit slow on the translation, "a good > year", > > > \\Steve// > Hebrew is a language not a religion. the religion is Jew or Jewish. thank you for the sediment

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 43511	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 9/21/2009
Subject: Re: Air Pumps

UGH! UGH!!! Arr, Arr, Arrgg. That's the best I could do to type out the grunts similar to the ones made by Tim Allen in Tool Time. ;-) http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6XUg5cfwilI (four minutes of mostly just grunting.. lol) OK.. Now I have to go bandage my knuckles. I was wondering what happened with the Hydroponics pump but I see the deal fell through. I'm glad it worked out although I was curious to see how that pump was going to work as well.. to try and figure out all the volume, PSI, flow rates, etc., figures that are thrown around by the pump people. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of kuradi8 Sent: Monday, September 21, 2009 1:16 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Air Pumps > Over a week ago, Kai wrote: > > For those of you who might remember my air pump dilemma, > > Well, I took the plunge. I'd had my eye on a Rena 400 but got a good deal on [a General Hydroponics air pump] instead. > A couple of you replied that I hadn't made such a good choice and fortunately, that deal fell through. I finally got a Rena 400 and hooked it up this morning. Insert simian chest beating here. "MORE POWER!" My old Whisper-60's output was oh so wimpy but the Rena turned my two 4" air disks into hot tub jets. They are happily bubbling away and the fish all seem to be taking turns playing in the bubbles. "Ooooooh, it tickles!" And it looks so much nicer too -- a couple of nice columns of bubbles instead of occasional spastic burps between little sizzles. Thanks for all your help and encouragement! ~Kai

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 43512	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 9/21/2009
Subject: Re: Air Pumps

Oops.. I said "Tool Time" but the TV show was Home Improvement and Tool Time was merely a TV show within the show. It's been a while since I've seen that series. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of kuradi8 Sent: Monday, September 21, 2009 1:16 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Air Pumps > Over a week ago, Kai wrote: > > For those of you who might remember my air pump dilemma, > > Well, I took the plunge. I'd had my eye on a Rena 400 but got a good deal on [a General Hydroponics air pump] instead. > A couple of you replied that I hadn't made such a good choice and fortunately, that deal fell through. I finally got a Rena 400 and hooked it up this morning. Insert simian chest beating here. "MORE POWER!" My old Whisper-60's output was oh so wimpy but the Rena turned my two 4" air disks into hot tub jets. They are happily bubbling away and the fish all seem to be taking turns playing in the bubbles. "Ooooooh, it tickles!" And it looks so much nicer too -- a couple of nice columns of bubbles instead of occasional spastic burps between little sizzles. Thanks for all your help and encouragement! ~Kai

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 43513	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 9/21/2009
Subject: Re: Black Algae Problem

Ken seems to sell good food from the reports that I have received. I have never heard it be mentioned along with algae as a causative agent. I'd say that what you experienced, Gold One, is probably an artifact of the use of CSS. \\Steve// ________________________________ From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com on behalf of Lenny V. aka GoldLenny Sent: Mon 9/21/2009 2:24 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Black Algae Problem I do not know much about "Ken's up in Mass" so I Googled and found this, http://kensfish.com <http://kensfish.com/> , and this page on their Ken's Premium Flake Food, http://kensfish.com/kensflake1.html, does not list the phosphorous content (You might want to email them and ask about the phosphorous content) Well, that was weird.... I did a copy/paste of what I could "see" on the above page, which was the next four paragraphs but when I pasted it here, a LOT more info showed up on other products as well. I've never seen this happen before but I'll leave it anyhow. (START OF COPY/PASTE) KENS PREMIUM TROPICAL FISH FLAKE: EXTRA STABILIZED VITAMIN C AND FRESH FISH OIL UPGRADE THIS COMPLETE DIET. FOR FRESHWATER AND MARINE FISH. INGREDIENTS: FISH MEAL, BREWERS DRIED YEAST, SOY FLOUR. OAT FLOUR, CORN GLUTEN MEAL, SHRIMP MEAL, DRIED PLANKTON, DRIED SPIRULINA ALGAE, DRIED KELP, LECITHIN, VITAMIN SUPPLEMENTS A, D3, B12, BIOTIN, THIAMINE (SOURCE OF VITAMIN B1), NATURAL COLORING, ASCOROBIC ACID ( SOURCE OF VITAMIN C). GUARANTEED ANALYSIS: CRUDE PROTEIN 44.0% MIN., CRUDE FAT 9.0%MIN., CRUDE FIBER 1.2% MAX., MOISTURE 9.0% MAX. ALL NATURAL INGREDIENTS. NO PRESERVATIVES. (THIS WAS SUPPOSED TO BE THE END OF THE COPY/PASTE BUT SEE DOWN BELOW MY SIG FOR MORE INFO THAT SHOWED UP WITH THE PASTE, AND I STILL DO NOT KNOW WHY... MAYBE \\STEVE// HAS SEEN THIS BEFORE) Anyhow, as you can see, no mention of Phosphorous content. I'm not so sure it's as "premium" as it claims. The ingredients look very similar to the ingredients on many of the "cheap" fish foods. Other than the "Fish Meal" as the first ingredient, the next four are just fillers, IMO, before it returns to what looks like decent ingredients again, like the "Dried Plankton, Dried Spirulina Algae, Dried Kelp" and then it goes into the vitamins section. For comparison, here's the ingredients on my Omega One Goldfish Pellets (Medium): http://www.omegasea.net/medium_goldfish_pellets.html INGREDIENTS: Whole Salmon, Whole Herring, Whole Shrimp, Wheat Flour, Wheat Gluten, Fresh Kelp, Soy Flour, Astaxanthin, L-Ascorbyl-2-Phosphate (Source of Vitamin C), Natural and Artificial Colors, Vitamin A Acetate, Vitamin D3 Supplement, Vitamin E Supplement, Vitamin B12 Supplement, Riboflavin, Niacin, Pantothenic Acid, Folic Acid, Biotin, Inositol, Tocopherol (Preservative), Ethoxyquin (Preservative). Yes, http://www.OmegaSea.net <http://www.omegasea.net/> , makers of Omega One fish foods, does have the "Wheat Flour", "Wheat Gluten" and "Soy Flour" fillers but they are the 3rd and 4th and 6th ingredients, not the 2nd, 3rd, 4th and 5th ingredients. Further, "Fish Meal", the first ingredient in Ken's, is a nice way of saying ground up fish by-products, whereas the Omega One has "Whole Salmon, Whole Herring, Whole Shrimp" listed as the 1st, 2nd and 3rd ingredients. Now, all this said, I'm certainly NOT saying that Ken's is a bad product, as it's very similar to the Nutrafin Max Goldfish Flakes which has "Fish Meal, Corn Meal, Wheat Flour, Soy Flour, Oat Meal, Squid Meal, Fish Liver Meal...." as the primary ingredients in it and it is also listed as a "premium" food according to Hagen... but my preference is to get away from foods that consist of too many un-natural products like the flour based fillers that make up so many of the ingredients in our pet foods. After all, when I go to the store and buy Green Peas, even the el cheapo generic canned ones, I DO NOT want wheat gluten, soy flour or any other kinds of flour's listed in the ingredients... just "Green Peas" and maybe some water and probably salt and preservatives. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://goldlenny.blogspot.com/> (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) (HERE'S THE OTHER STUFF THAT COPY/PASTED FROM THE KEN'S PAGE WHEN I ONLY COPY/PASTED FOUR PARAGRAPHS... STILL NOT SURE WHY THE REST OF THIS SHOWED UP) KENS PREMIUM CHICKEN LIVER FLAKE: EXTRA STABILIZED VITAMIN C AND FRESH FISH OIL UPGRADE THIS COMPLETE DIET ALONG WITH THE MAIN INGREDIENT OF FRESH CHICKEN LIVER. THE HIGH PROTEIN MAKES THIS EXCELLENT FOR FRY AS WELL AS GUPPIES AND OTHER LIVE BEARERS. INGREDIENTS: CHICKEN LIVER, FISH MEAL, BREWERS DRIED YEAST, SOY FLOUR. OAT FLOUR, CORN GLUTEN MEAL, SHRIMP MEAL, DRIED PLANKTON, DRIED SPIRULINA ALGAE, DRIED KELP, LECITHIN, VITAMIN SUPPLEMENTS A, D3, B12, BIOTIN, THIAMINE (SOURCE OF VITAMIN B1), NATURAL COLORING, ASCOROBIC ACID ( SOURCE OF VITAMIN C). GUARANTEED ANALYSIS: CRUDE PROTEIN 48.0% MIN., CRUDE FAT 9.0%MIN., CRUDE FIBER 5.0% MAX., MOISTURE 9.0% MAX. ALL NATURAL INGREDIENTS, EXCEPT SOME ARTIFICIAL COLORING. NO PRESERVATIVES. FOR PHOTO: 1/2 LB $4.25 1 LB $8.00 5 LB $35.00 KENS PREMIUM MARINE FLAKE: THIS PREMIUM FLAKE IS EXCELLENT FOR MARINE FISH. GREAT AS USING FOR A STARTER FLAKE FOR YOUNG FRESHWATER FRY AS WELL. INGREDIENTS: WHITE FISH MEAL & WHITE FISH PROTEIN CONCENTRATE. OAT, WHEAT, SOYBEEN MEAL FLOURS, SHRIMP, PLANKTON & KRILL MEAL, FISH OIL, LECITHIN, VITAMIN MINERAL SUPPLEMENT, SPIRULINA, FROZEN BRINE SHRIMP, KELP MEAL, METHIONINE.ASCORBIC ACID (SOURCE OF VITAMIN C).NATURAL AND SOME ARTIFICIAL COLORING. GUARANTEED ANALYSIS: CRUDE PROTEIN 46.0% MIN., CRUDE FAT 5.0% MIN., CRUDE FIBER 3.0% MAX., MOISTURE 8.0% MAX., ALL NATURAL INGREDIENTS, EXCEPT FOR SOME ARTIFICIAL COLORING. NO PRESERVATIVES. 1/2 LB $4.25 1 LB $7.95 5 LB $37.75 FOR PHOTO: KENS PREMIUM SPIRULINA + FLAKE WITH GARLIC & PAPRIKA: THIS IS REMARKABLE FORTIFIED FOOD THAT WILL KEEP YOUR TROPHEUS AND OTHER FISH IN TOP FORM.THIS CONTAINS A HIGH AMOUNT OF SPIRULINA AND THE ADDED INGREDIENT OF GARLIC & PAPRIKA! INGREDIENTS: FISH MEAL, DRIED BREWERS YEAST, SOY FLOUR, WHEAT FLOUR, OAT FLOUR, CORN GLUTEN MEAL, DRIED SPIRULINA ALGEA, GARLIC, SHRIMP MEAL, DRIED KRILL, FISH OIL, PAPRIKA, LECITHIN, VITAMIN SUPPLEMENTS A, D3, B12, BIOTIN, NATURAL COLORING, ASCORBIC ACID (SOURCE OF VITAMIN C). GUARANTEED ANALYSIS: CRUDE PROTEIN 45.0% MIN., CRUDE FAT 4.0% MAX., CRUDE FIBER 3.2% MAX., MOISTURE 8.0% MAX. ALL NATURAL INGREDIENTS, EXCEPT FOR SOME ARTIFICIAL COLORING. NO PRESERVATIVES. 1/2 LB $4.95 1 LB $9.75 5 LB $47.75 FOR PHOTO: KENS PREMIUM SUPER BRINE SHRIMP FLAKE: THIS IS EXCELLENT FOR GROWTH DUE TO THE HIGH AMOUNTS OF CRUDE PROTEIN. EXCELLENT DIGESTABILITY AND HIGH AMOUNTS BRINE SHRIMP MAKE UP THIS HIGH GRADE FORMULA. INGREDIENTS: FISH MEAL, SHRIMP MEAL, SOY FLOUR, SOY PROTEIN ISOLATE, FISH PROTEIN CONCENTRATE, BREWERS DRIED YEAST, CORN STARCH, SOY LECITHIN, DRIED BRINE SHRIMP, SODIUM ALGINATE, FISH OIL, MENADIONE DIMETHYIPYRIMIDINOL BISULFATE (SOURCE OF VITAMIN K), D1-ALPHA TOCOPHERYL ACETATE, INOSITOL, PARAMINO BENZOIC ACID, NIACIN, CALCIUM PANTOTHENATE, RIBOFLAVIN, BIOTIN, PYRIDOXINE HYDROCHLORIDE, THIAMINE MONONITRATE, VITAMIN A ACETATE, VITAMIN B12, VITAMIN D3 SUPPLEMENT, SQUIS MEAL, EMULSIFIER, CHOLINE CHLORIDE, MANGANESE PROTEINATE, ZINC PROTEINATE, COPPER PROTEINATE, CALCIUM IODATE, IRON PEOTEINATE, COBALT PROTEINATE, CALCIUM CARBONATE, SODIUM SELENITE, L-ASCORBYL-2POLYPHOSPHATE (SOURCE OF VITAMIN C). GUARANTEED ANALYSIS: CRUDE PROTEIN 50.0% MIN., CRUDE FAT 12.0% MAX., CRUDE FIBER 3.0% MAX., MOISTURE 10.0% MAX. SOME ARTIFICIAL COLORING AND PRESERVATIVES. FOR PHOTO: 1/2 LB $4.75 1 LB $9.25 5 LB $44.25 KENS PREMIUM COLOR FLAKE WITH NATUROSE ADDED: GREAT FOR ADDING COLOR! NATURE'S OWN COLORING FOOD! BRINGS OUT THE RADIENT NATURAL COLORS OF YOUR BEST FRESHWATER AND SALTWATER FISH! NOW WITH THE ADDED INGREDIENT OF NATUROSE FOR ADDED COLOR ENHANCEMENT. INGREDIENTS: FISH MEAL BLEND, SPECIAL MIX: DRIED PLANKTON, SHRIMP, KRILL AND DRIED SPIRULINA ALGEA, WHEAT GLUTEN MEAL, OAT FLOUR, BREWERS DRIED YEAST, CAROTENE, NATUROSE, LECITHIN, SOY OIL, FISH OIL, VITAMIN SUPPLEMENTS, A, D3, B12, BIOTIN, NATURAL & ARTIFICIAL COLORING, ASCORBIC ACID (SOURCE OF VITAMIN C). GUARANTEED ANALYSIS: CRUDE PROTEIN 44.0% MIN., CRUDE FAT 12.0% MIN., CRUDE FIBER 8.0% MAX., MOISTURE 8.0% MAX. ALL NATURAL INGREDIENTS. NO PRESERVATIVES. FOR PHOTO: 1/2 LB $4.50 1 LB $8.75 5 LB $42.00 KENS PREMIUM BEEFHEART FLAKE: EXCELLENT DIET FOR ANGELS AND DISCUS. MADE WITH REAL BEEFHEARTS TO HELP BRING YOUR FISH INTO FULL SPAWNING CONDITION. ALSO EXCELLENT FOR OTHER TROPICAL FISH. Main Ingredients: Fish Meal, Wheat Flour, Soy Flour, Shrimp Meal, Brewers Dried Yeast, Krill Meal, Fish Oil, Soy Lecithin, Spirulina, Emulsifier, Beefhearts, Choline Chloride, Sorbitol, Propylene Glycol, Artificial Color, Vitamin A, Vitamin D3 Supplement, d1-Alpha Tocopheryl Acetate (Vitamin E Supplement), Vitamin B12 Supplement, Riboflavin, Niacin, Calcium Pantothenate, Menadione Sodium Bisulfite Complex (source of vitamin K Activity), Folic Acid, Thiamine Mononitrate, Pyridoxine Hydrochloride, Biotin, Manganese Proteinate, Zinc Proteinate, Copper Proteinate, Calcium Iodate, Iron Proteinate, Cobolt Proteinate, Calcium Carbonate, Sodium Selenite, Anise Oil, L-Ascorbyl-2-Polyphosphate (source or Vitamin C), Xanthophyll, Canthaxanthin, Ethoxyquin, TBHQ (preservative). Guaranteed Analysis: Crude Protein 46.0% Min., Crude Fat 10.0% Min., Crude Fiber 3.0% Max., Moisture 10.0% Max. FOR PHOTO: 1/2 LB $4.50 1 LB $8.75 5 LB $42.00 KENS PREMIUM SUPER TROPICAL FLAKE: This is a higher protein general flake diet for all your tropical fish. This tropical fish flake contains spirulina, krill, Shrimp meal to aid in coloration. Also contains highly digestible marine proteins to reduce excreted waste. Ingredients: Fish Meal, Wheat Flour, Soy Flour, Shrimp Meal, Brewers Dried Yeast, Krill Meal, Soy Lecithin, Fish Oil, Emulsifier, Choline Chloride, Sorbitol, Propylene Glycol, Artificial Color, Spirulina, Yeast Extract, Calcium Phosphate, Anise Oil, Xanthophyll Pigments, L-Ascorbyl-2- Polyphosphate (source of Vitamin C), Canthaxanthin, Manganese Proteinate, Zinc Proteinate, Copper Proteinate, Calcium Iodate, Iron Proteinate, Cobalt Proteinate, Calcium Carbonate, Sodium Selenite, Vitamin A Acetate, Vitamin D3 Supplement, dl-Alpha Tocopheryl Acetate (Vitamin E Supplement), Vitamin B12 Supplement, Riboflavin Supplement, Niacin, Calcium Pantothenate, Menadione Sodium Bisulfite Complex (source of Vitamin K Activity), Folic Acid, Thiamine Mononitrate, Pyridoxine Hydrochloride, Biotin, Ethoxyquin, TBHQ (preservative). Guaranteed Analysis: Min. Protein 45.0%, Min. Crude Fat 9.0%, Max Crude Fiber 3.0%, Max Moisture 10.0%, FOR PHOTO: 1/2 LB $4.00 1 LB $7.15 5 LB $33.75 KENS PREMIUM HATCHERY FLAKE: EXTRA STABILIZED VITAMIN C AND FRESH FISH OIL UPGRADE THIS COMPLETE DIET. FOR FRESHWATER AND MARINE FISH. INGREDIENTS: FISH MEAL, BREWERS DRIED YEAST, SOY FLOUR. OAT FLOUR, CORN GLUTEN MEAL, SHRIMP MEAL, DRIED PLANKTON, DRIED SPIRULINA ALGAE, DRIED KELP, LECITHIN, VITAMIN SUPPLEMENTS A, D3, B12, BIOTIN, THIAMINE (SOURCE OF VITAMIN B1), NATURAL COLORING, ASCOROBIC ACID ( SOURCE OF VITAMIN C). GUARANTEED ANALYSIS: CRUDE PROTEIN 44.0% MIN., CRUDE FAT 9.0%MIN., CRUDE FIBER 1.2% MAX., MOISTURE 9.0% MAX. ALL NATURAL INGREDIENTS. NO PRESERVATIVES. FOR PHOTO: 1/2 LB $3.50 1 LB $6.25 5 LB $29.75 -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of bill 1433 Sent: Monday, September 21, 2009 12:44 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Black Algae Problem Check on the algae eater but far as I know, none eat the black stuff. Your right, i've got to figure out the "Y" part. Lights on 10 to 12 but they are standard tubes, 17watts each for the 20 and 29. Food? Very high protein stuff from Ken's up in Mass. Fish love it. Bill --- On Mon, 9/21/09, Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@...> wrote: > From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@...> > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Black Algae Problem > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Date: Monday, September 21, 2009, 1:28 PM I guess the SeaChem Flourish > Excel might be your preferred choice... BUT... > remember that if you do not figure out the cause and fix the cause, it > will simply return, so you still have to figure out the cause. > > Presuming you are keeping any cycling issues in check and thus keeping > nitrates at a low enough level, below 20ppm, then I would highly > suspect either too much lighting (how long do you leave them on each > day and how much lighting do you have?) or direct sunlight or other > nutrients (mainly > phosphates) that you may be getting from your well water or from many > foods that list phosphorous percentages (I've seen many that have MUCH > higher levels than others). > > I'm looking at three of my store bought foods right now. Omega One > Medium Goldfish Pellets lists "Min. Phosphorous (0.5%)". I'm not sure > why it's in brackets ( ), as the other analysis levels are not in > brackets... could this mean negative???, I have to check with Omega > One. My Hikari Algae Wafers has "Guaranteed Analysis" as "Phosphorous > min 0.7%" but then in a separate section called "Typical Analysis", it > has "Phosphorous 1.4%". My Hagen Nutrafin Max Goldfish Flake Food has > "Phosphorous min 0.5%, max 0.9%". > > I've seen other foods where they "advertise" on the package of having > less than 3% phosphorous or something like that, which means they are > simply taking advantage of the uninformed as those levels of > phosphorous are 3X to 6X the levels of the three foods I just listed > and even the Hikari Algae Wafers has nearly 2X to 3X more than the > other two. > > As usual with store bought foods, check the ingredients. > > Last but not least, if you have bioload room in the tanks and cannot > figure out the cause of the algae, you might want to consider a small > algae eater. > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://goldlenny.blogspot.com/> (Links to any articles > referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically > under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) > > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] > On > Behalf Of bill 1433 > Sent: Monday, September 21, 2009 11:48 AM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Black Algae Problem > > Len, > > I understand what your trying to say and thanks for the > help but the problem > is the stuff is everywhere. Not real heavy and can > usually just be wiped > off with the clean cloth, the problems come in at the > "where" part. > > For instance pieces of gravel, not all mind you just some, > you know, so > you'll notice it! > > What I need is a way to dose the whole tank at once without > having to worry > about checking for survivors when I'm done. The hp > seems to infer direct > contact. Working with a syringe it would probably > take me to Christmas to > get the whole tank done by this method, which is why I'm > looking at Seachem. > Now if there was some way of using the HP in this method it > would be great > but most articles seem to infer this direct contact > approach. > > Thanks, Bill > > > > --- On Mon, 9/21/09, Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@...> > wrote: > > > From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@...> > > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Black Algae Problem > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > Date: Monday, September 21, 2009, 12:21 PM I know > TheKrib's thread is > > from late 1990's - early 2000's but IT is some of the > best info out > > there on the net. EVERY forum thread that I've ever > seen in any other > > forum still refers to TheKrib's thread as THE guide > for using Hydrogen > > Peroxide. I know the dosages are or can be confusing > in that thread > > as that was raw data compiled by posting around 20 > experienced replies > > to make that page, which is why I included the one > paragraph about > > what the safe dosage was, as I know it from reading > many other forum > > threads over the years and using it myself in the > past. > > > > 1 oz. per 10G has been used on tanks with fry but if > you are more > > concerned, halve that dosage. Do the dosing during > the day so the > > lights stay on for a while after the dose as light > helps to break down > > the HP faster. Since you are using a syringe (minus > needle) to apply > > the HP, it's the direct contact of the HP on the algae > that does the > > job and then the HP breaks down into water and > oxygen. Do a PWC the > > next day (or even be prepared to do a PWC after dosing > if your fish > > are showing any signs of distress but the 1 oz. > > per 10G should be OK. 1 oz. equals around 30ml > (actually 29.57ml if > > you have a highly calibrated syringe... lol). > > > > In TheKrib's page, there were people who experimented > with using as > > much as 60ml per 10G (2 oz. per 10G) which was found > to cause issues > > for sensitive snails and ghost shrimp and some fish. > Others would > > dose with their filters off, worried about the HP > causing harm to the > > filters, but that could also cause problems as it did > not > > disperse/dilute the HP fast enough in the water > column. Just leave > > your filters running BUT do not squirt the HP close > enough to a filter > > intake. If you need to dose near the filter, unplug > it for a moment, > > do the dose, use something to stir up the water in > that area, then > > turn the filter back on. Leave the lights on for > several hours after > > using HP. Do the PWC the next day and dose again as > needed. > > > > > > > > As far as the Excel, which is an EXPENSIVE alternative > treatment, here > > are a couple of forum threads on the topic, with some > users using up > > to 5X the proper dose of Excel, every 3 days. > > > > > http://www.aquaticplantcentral.com/forumapc/algae/3806-flourish-excel-got-ri > d-all-my.html (25 page thread) > > > > SeaChem's official reply. > > http://www.seachem.com/support/forums/showthread.php?t=682 > > > > The top FAQ on this page is another of SeaChem's > official replies. > > http://www.seachem.com/support/FAQs/FlourishExcel.html > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://goldlenny.blogspot.com/> (Links to > any articles > > referenced in above reply are listed on the right > side, alphabetically > > under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) > > > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] > > On > > Behalf Of bill 1433 > > Sent: Monday, September 21, 2009 8:40 AM > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Black Algae Problem > > > > Hi Len, > > > > \\Steve// also suggested this BUT, even with the links > you > > sent (some dated) > > it appears that there is great controversy over > dosage. > > > > The fish in the tank are 9 rams at 5 months old and 3 > Cory > > cats. Those Rams > > were a long time coming and I really don't want > anything to > > happen to them. > > > > On the other hand, some for other groups mention the > use of > > SeaChem's Excel > > but again, nobody seems to have an dosage level for > > positive results. > > Looking at their web-site they do mention this on > their > > support page but > > since this is a by-pass type of reaction they are not > being > > specific as to > > dosage either. Unless they just mean to use the > product > > by its instructions > > on the bottle to boost carbon for plants. > Information so > > far has been "ify" > > at best. I don't want to hurt those Rams. > > > > Bill--where Rams Rule! > > > > --- On Mon, 9/21/09, Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@...> > > wrote: > > > > > From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@...> > > > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Black Algae Problem > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > > Date: Monday, September 21, 2009, 1:29 AM Bill, > > > > > > If I recall correctly, you do NOT have any live > > plants... > > > right? > > > > > > Here's a thread about using HP for algae issues, > > including suggested > > > dosages, etc. > > > > > > http://www.thekrib.com/Plants/Algae/hydrogen-peroxide.html > > > > > > And an article. > > > > > > http://www.malawicichlidhomepage.com/aquainfo/algae_peroxide.html > > > > > > The basic safe dose for fish and plants is 1 oz. > per > > 10G per day, with > > > PWC's between each treatment and do not dose the > tank > > close to the > > > intake to your filter(s). If you have > sensitive > > shrimp or snails and > > > someone mentioned oto's, then you might want to > halve > > that dosage. > > > > > > One other question, are you sure you have "black > > algae". Algae is > > > another thing in the aquarium hobby that suffers > from > > common name > > > abuse so look over these articles and I can give > you > > several other > > > sites about algae, if you don't have them > already, for > > even more > > > reading. > > > You'll see what I mean > > > about the common name problem. > > > > > > If your water testing is showing low levels of > > nitrates and other > > > nitrogenous compounds, then you might want to > check > > your phosphate > > > levels in your source water and tank. Also, > many > > fish foods are a BIG > > > source of phosphates so check them also and > maybe > > change over to a > > > lower phosphate level food. > > > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://goldlenny.blogspot.com/> (Links to > > any articles > > > referenced in above reply are listed on the > right > > side, alphabetically > > > under Labels and also under Archives by Year, > Month) > > > > > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] > > > On > > > Behalf Of Steve Szabo > > > Sent: Sunday, September 20, 2009 10:50 PM > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Black Algae Problem > > > > > > Bill, > > > > > > Get some hydrogen peroxide (normally found in a > 3% > > > solution) and a syringe. > > > With the syringe, apply the hydrogen peroxide > directly > > to > > > the black algae. > > > This should kill the black algae without harming > any > > plants > > > or fish in the > > > process, since hydrogen peroxide will break down > > fairly > > > rapidly to the main > > > components, water and oxygen, > > > > > > \\Steve// > > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] > > > On > > > Behalf Of bill 1433 > > > Sent: Sunday, September 20, 2009 11:23 PM > > > To: AquaticLife > > > Subject: [AquaticLife] Black Algae Problem > > > > > > I have started getting a black algae problem that > I > > am > > > trying to live with > > > but have not been able to conquer. The tanks > are a > > > standard 29-gallon Ram > > > tank and a 20-gallon long with Neon Tetras in > it. > > > > > > I may have posted this problem a few months ago > and > > have > > > been living with it > > > through cleaning and water changes but the > problem > > has > > > never really > > > completely cleared. Someone mentioned the use > of > > > Seachem's Excel to kill it > > > but I'm not sure of proper dosage or how long. > All > > water > > > tests are fine and > > > pH is 7.0 > > > > > > Bill [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 43514	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 9/21/2009
Subject: Re: Black Algae Problem

I have been told word of mouth that Platy's and Guppy's will nibble on the black beard algae, but only if you practically starve them ;) LOL. So basically it's pointless to try getting a fish that eats the algae as they will always prefer the food you feed them over the algae growing in the tank ;) I have seen my guppy's and platy's nibble on it, but not all the time, usually when they're foraging for food they will "taste test" the algae too. Amber bill 1433 wrote: > > > Check on the algae eater but far as I know, none eat > the black stuff. Your right, i've got to figure out > the "Y" part. Lights on 10 to 12 but they are standard > tubes, 17watts each for the 20 and 29. > > Food? Very high protein stuff from Ken's up in Mass. > Fish love it. > > Bill > > --- On Mon, 9/21/09, Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@... > <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com>> wrote: > > > From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@... > <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com>> > > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Black Algae Problem > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > Date: Monday, September 21, 2009, 1:28 PM > > I guess the SeaChem Flourish Excel > > might be your preferred choice... BUT... > > remember that if you do not figure out the cause and fix > > the cause, it will > > simply return, so you still have to figure out the cause. > > > > Presuming you are keeping any cycling issues in check and > > thus keeping > > nitrates at a low enough level, below 20ppm, then I would > > highly suspect > > either too much lighting (how long do you leave them on > > each day and how > > much lighting do you have?) or direct sunlight or other > > nutrients (mainly > > phosphates) that you may be getting from your well water or > > from many foods > > that list phosphorous percentages (I've seen many that have > > MUCH higher > > levels than others). > > > > I'm looking at three of my store bought foods right > > now. Omega One Medium > > Goldfish Pellets lists "Min. Phosphorous (0.5%)". I'm > > not sure why it's in > > brackets ( ), as the other analysis levels are not in > > brackets... could this > > mean negative???, I have to check with Omega One. My > > Hikari Algae Wafers > > has "Guaranteed Analysis" as "Phosphorous min 0.7%" but > > then in a separate > > section called "Typical Analysis", it has "Phosphorous > > 1.4%". My Hagen > > Nutrafin Max Goldfish Flake Food has "Phosphorous min 0.5%, > > max 0.9%". > > > > I've seen other foods where they "advertise" on the package > > of having less > > than 3% phosphorous or something like that, which means > > they are simply > > taking advantage of the uninformed as those levels of > > phosphorous are 3X to > > 6X the levels of the three foods I just listed and even the > > Hikari Algae > > Wafers has nearly 2X to 3X more than the other two. > > > > As usual with store bought foods, check the ingredients. > > > > Last but not least, if you have bioload room in the tanks > > and cannot figure > > out the cause of the algae, you might want to consider a > > small algae eater. > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed > > on the right > > side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives > > by Year, Month) > > > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] > > On > > Behalf Of bill 1433 > > Sent: Monday, September 21, 2009 11:48 AM > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Black Algae Problem > > > > Len, > > > > I understand what your trying to say and thanks for the > > help but the problem > > is the stuff is everywhere. Not real heavy and can > > usually just be wiped > > off with the clean cloth, the problems come in at the > > "where" part. > > > > For instance pieces of gravel, not all mind you just some, > > you know, so > > you'll notice it! > > > > What I need is a way to dose the whole tank at once without > > having to worry > > about checking for survivors when I'm done. The hp > > seems to infer direct > > contact. Working with a syringe it would probably > > take me to Christmas to > > get the whole tank done by this method, which is why I'm > > looking at Seachem. > > Now if there was some way of using the HP in this method it > > would be great > > but most articles seem to infer this direct contact > > approach. > > > > Thanks, Bill > > > > > > > > --- On Mon, 9/21/09, Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@... > <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com>> > > wrote: > > > > > From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@... > <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com>> > > > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Black Algae Problem > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > Date: Monday, September 21, 2009, 12:21 PM I know > > TheKrib's thread is > > > from late 1990's - early 2000's but IT is some of the > > best info out > > > there on the net. EVERY forum thread that I've ever > > seen in any other > > > forum still refers to TheKrib's thread as THE guide > > for using Hydrogen > > > Peroxide. I know the dosages are or can be confusing > > in that thread > > > as that was raw data compiled by posting around 20 > > experienced replies > > > to make that page, which is why I included the one > > paragraph about > > > what the safe dosage was, as I know it from reading > > many other forum > > > threads over the years and using it myself in the > > past. > > > > > > 1 oz. per 10G has been used on tanks with fry but if > > you are more > > > concerned, halve that dosage. Do the dosing during > > the day so the > > > lights stay on for a while after the dose as light > > helps to break down > > > the HP faster. Since you are using a syringe (minus > > needle) to apply > > > the HP, it's the direct contact of the HP on the algae > > that does the > > > job and then the HP breaks down into water and > > oxygen. Do a PWC the > > > next day (or even be prepared to do a PWC after dosing > > if your fish > > > are showing any signs of distress but the 1 oz. > > > per 10G should be OK. 1 oz. equals around 30ml > > (actually 29.57ml if > > > you have a highly calibrated syringe... lol). > > > > > > In TheKrib's page, there were people who experimented > > with using as > > > much as 60ml per 10G (2 oz. per 10G) which was found > > to cause issues > > > for sensitive snails and ghost shrimp and some fish. > > Others would > > > dose with their filters off, worried about the HP > > causing harm to the > > > filters, but that could also cause problems as it did > > not > > > disperse/dilute the HP fast enough in the water > > column. Just leave > > > your filters running BUT do not squirt the HP close > > enough to a filter > > > intake. If you need to dose near the filter, unplug > > it for a moment, > > > do the dose, use something to stir up the water in > > that area, then > > > turn the filter back on. Leave the lights on for > > several hours after > > > using HP. Do the PWC the next day and dose again as > > needed. > > > > > > > > > > > > As far as the Excel, which is an EXPENSIVE alternative > > treatment, here > > > are a couple of forum threads on the topic, with some > > users using up > > > to 5X the proper dose of Excel, every 3 days. > > > > > > > > > http://www.aquaticplantcentral.com/forumapc/algae/3806-flourish-excel-got-ri > <http://www.aquaticplantcentral.com/forumapc/algae/3806-flourish-excel-got-ri> > > d-all-my.html (25 page thread) > > > > > > SeaChem's official reply. > > > http://www.seachem.com/support/forums/showthread.php?t=682 > <http://www.seachem.com/support/forums/showthread.php?t=682> > > > > > > The top FAQ on this page is another of SeaChem's > > official replies. > > > http://www.seachem.com/support/FAQs/FlourishExcel.html > <http://www.seachem.com/support/FAQs/FlourishExcel.html> > > > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> (Links to > > any articles > > > referenced in above reply are listed on the right > > side, alphabetically > > > under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] > > > On > > > Behalf Of bill 1433 > > > Sent: Monday, September 21, 2009 8:40 AM > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Black Algae Problem > > > > > > Hi Len, > > > > > > \\Steve// also suggested this BUT, even with the links > > you > > > sent (some dated) > > > it appears that there is great controversy over > > dosage. > > > > > > The fish in the tank are 9 rams at 5 months old and 3 > > Cory > > > cats. Those Rams > > > were a long time coming and I really don't want > > anything to > > > happen to them. > > > > > > On the other hand, some for other groups mention the > > use of > > > SeaChem's Excel > > > but again, nobody seems to have an dosage level for > > > positive results. > > > Looking at their web-site they do mention this on > > their > > > support page but > > > since this is a by-pass type of reaction they are not > > being > > > specific as to > > > dosage either. Unless they just mean to use the > > product > > > by its instructions > > > on the bottle to boost carbon for plants. > > Information so > > > far has been "ify" > > > at best. I don't want to hurt those Rams. > > > > > > Bill--where Rams Rule! > > > > > > --- On Mon, 9/21/09, Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@... > <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com>> > > > wrote: > > > > > > > From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@... > <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com>> > > > > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Black Algae Problem > > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > Date: Monday, September 21, 2009, 1:29 AM Bill, > > > > > > > > If I recall correctly, you do NOT have any live > > > plants... > > > > right? > > > > > > > > Here's a thread about using HP for algae issues, > > > including suggested > > > > dosages, etc. > > > > > > > > http://www.thekrib.com/Plants/Algae/hydrogen-peroxide.html > <http://www.thekrib.com/Plants/Algae/hydrogen-peroxide.html> > > > > > > > > And an article. > > > > > > > > > http://www.malawicichlidhomepage.com/aquainfo/algae_peroxide.html > <http://www.malawicichlidhomepage.com/aquainfo/algae_peroxide.html> > > > > > > > > The basic safe dose for fish and plants is 1 oz. > > per > > > 10G per day, with > > > > PWC's between each treatment and do not dose the > > tank > > > close to the > > > > intake to your filter(s). If you have > > sensitive > > > shrimp or snails and > > > > someone mentioned oto's, then you might want to > > halve > > > that dosage. > > > > > > > > One other question, are you sure you have "black > > > algae". Algae is > > > > another thing in the aquarium hobby that suffers > > from > > > common name > > > > abuse so look over these articles and I can give > > you > > > several other > > > > sites about algae, if you don't have them > > already, for > > > even more > > > > reading. > > > > You'll see what I mean > > > > about the common name problem. > > > > > > > > If your water testing is showing low levels of > > > nitrates and other > > > > nitrogenous compounds, then you might want to > > check > > > your phosphate > > > > levels in your source water and tank. Also, > > many > > > fish foods are a BIG > > > > source of phosphates so check them also and > > maybe > > > change over to a > > > > lower phosphate level food. > > > > > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> (Links to > > > any articles > > > > referenced in above reply are listed on the > > right > > > side, alphabetically > > > > under Labels and also under Archives by Year, > > Month) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] > > > > On > > > > Behalf Of Steve Szabo > > > > Sent: Sunday, September 20, 2009 10:50 PM > > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Black Algae Problem > > > > > > > > Bill, > > > > > > > > Get some hydrogen peroxide (normally found in a > > 3% > > > > solution) and a syringe. > > > > With the syringe, apply the hydrogen peroxide > > directly > > > to > > > > the black algae. > > > > This should kill the black algae without harming > > any > > > plants > > > > or fish in the > > > > process, since hydrogen peroxide will break down > > > fairly > > > > rapidly to the main > > > > components, water and oxygen, > > > > > > > > \\Steve// > > > > > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] > > > > On > > > > Behalf Of bill 1433 > > > > Sent: Sunday, September 20, 2009 11:23 PM > > > > To: AquaticLife > > > > Subject: [AquaticLife] Black Algae Problem > > > > > > > > I have started getting a black algae problem that > > I > > > am > > > > trying to live with > > > > but have not been able to conquer. The tanks > > are a > > > > standard 29-gallon Ram > > > > tank and a 20-gallon long with Neon Tetras in > > it. > > > > > > > > I may have posted this problem a few months ago > > and > > > have > > > > been living with it > > > > through cleaning and water changes but the > > problem > > > has > > > > never really > > > > completely cleared. Someone mentioned the use > > of > > > > Seachem's Excel to kill it > > > > but I'm not sure of proper dosage or how long. > > All > > > water > > > > tests are fine and > > > > pH is 7.0 > > > > > > > > Bill > > > > > > > > ------------------------------------ > > > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when > > replying, Thank You. > > ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> > > ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> > > PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is > > NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of > > the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new > > subject (was re: old subject)" <- > > <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. > > , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. > > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. > > > > If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of > > unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by > > clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the home page. > > > > Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:aquaticlife-digest%40yahoogroups.com> > > to receive the digest, which includes up to 25 posts at a > > time in a single email > > > > Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:aquaticlife-nomail%40yahoogroups.com> > > for the No E-Mail option where you will still be able to > > read messages on the group and post replies. > > > > Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:aquaticlife-normal%40yahoogroups.com> > > to receive individual e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > mailto:AquaticLife-fullfeatured@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife-fullfeatured%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 43515	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 9/21/2009
Subject: Baby mystery snails and question about duckweed.

So my baby mystery snails are doing great, starting to show some color (purple so far). Also Pam the ones I got from you are busy little guys, they've laid eggs 4 times the last 3 weeks! My 125 gallon is going to be swarming in mystery snails soon. So far my dark purple ones have not laid eggs, the eggs that were laid were from one of the magenta ones, either Pam's or the ones I got from the aquabid seller. The babies look more like Pam's purple ones though. Perhaps my dark purple ones just aren't ready, I know there's enough in there to have at least one pair off ;) LOL. Maybe the next batch will be dark purple ones ;) The ones in the 125 gallon are growing faster, that tank is usually a couple degrees warmer than the ones upstairs as I keep the upstairs windows open for a bit of air in the house, it gets too stuffy if I don't. Most of my older snails in the 55 gallon upstairs are "napping", they have been for a couple of weeks, off and on. Perhaps they think it's their hibernation time? Not sure, either way they're still alive and they wake up for food every now and then. I'm struggling with the duckweed in that tank as well, perhaps they don't like the duckweed? Other than removing all traces of duckweed so that it can't reproduce is there a faster way to get rid of it somehow? LOL. Darn stuff is going to take over my home, when I get done cleaning the fish tank I have duckweed everywhere ;) Hubby calls me "swamp thing" LOL. Amber

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 43516	From: bill 1433	Date: 9/21/2009
Subject: Re: Black Algae Problem

CSS? Bill --- On Mon, 9/21/09, Steve Szabo <steve@...> wrote: > From: Steve Szabo <steve@...> > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Black Algae Problem > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Date: Monday, September 21, 2009, 4:44 PM > Ken seems to sell good food from the > reports that I have received. I have never heard it be > mentioned along with algae as a causative agent. > > I'd say that what you experienced, Gold One, is probably an > artifact of the use of CSS. > > \\Steve// > > ________________________________ > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > on behalf of Lenny V. aka GoldLenny > Sent: Mon 9/21/2009 2:24 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Black Algae Problem > > > > I do not know much about "Ken's up in Mass" so I Googled > and found this, > http://kensfish.com <http://kensfish.com/> , and this page > on their Ken's Premium Flake Food, > http://kensfish.com/kensflake1.html, does not list the > phosphorous content > (You might want to email them and ask about the phosphorous > content) > > Well, that was weird.... I did a copy/paste of what I could > "see" on the > above page, which was the next four paragraphs but when I > pasted it here, a > LOT more info showed up on other products as well.  > I've never seen this > happen before but I'll leave it anyhow. > > (START OF COPY/PASTE) > KENS PREMIUM TROPICAL FISH FLAKE: > > EXTRA STABILIZED VITAMIN C AND FRESH FISH OIL UPGRADE THIS > COMPLETE DIET. > FOR FRESHWATER AND MARINE FISH. > > INGREDIENTS: FISH MEAL, BREWERS DRIED YEAST, SOY FLOUR. OAT > FLOUR, CORN > GLUTEN MEAL, SHRIMP MEAL, DRIED PLANKTON, DRIED SPIRULINA > ALGAE, DRIED KELP, > LECITHIN, VITAMIN SUPPLEMENTS A, D3, B12, BIOTIN, THIAMINE > (SOURCE OF > VITAMIN B1), NATURAL COLORING, ASCOROBIC ACID ( SOURCE OF > VITAMIN C). > > GUARANTEED ANALYSIS: CRUDE PROTEIN 44.0% MIN., CRUDE FAT > 9.0%MIN., CRUDE > FIBER 1.2% MAX., MOISTURE 9.0% MAX. ALL NATURAL > INGREDIENTS. NO > PRESERVATIVES. > > (THIS WAS SUPPOSED TO BE THE END OF THE COPY/PASTE BUT SEE > DOWN BELOW MY SIG > FOR MORE INFO THAT SHOWED UP WITH THE PASTE, AND I STILL DO > NOT KNOW WHY... > MAYBE \\STEVE// HAS SEEN THIS BEFORE) > > Anyhow, as you can see, no mention of Phosphorous > content.  I'm not so sure > it's as "premium" as it claims.  The ingredients look > very similar to the > ingredients on many of the "cheap" fish foods.  Other > than the "Fish Meal" > as the first ingredient, the next four are just fillers, > IMO, before it > returns to what looks like decent ingredients again, like > the "Dried > Plankton, Dried Spirulina Algae, Dried Kelp" and then it > goes into the > vitamins section. > > For comparison, here's the ingredients on my Omega One > Goldfish Pellets > (Medium): > http://www.omegasea.net/medium_goldfish_pellets.html > INGREDIENTS: Whole Salmon, Whole Herring, Whole Shrimp, > Wheat Flour, Wheat > Gluten, Fresh Kelp, Soy Flour, Astaxanthin, > L-Ascorbyl-2-Phosphate (Source > of Vitamin C), Natural and Artificial Colors, Vitamin A > Acetate, Vitamin D3 > Supplement, Vitamin E Supplement, Vitamin B12 Supplement, > Riboflavin, > Niacin, Pantothenic Acid, Folic Acid, Biotin, Inositol, > Tocopherol > (Preservative), Ethoxyquin (Preservative). > > Yes, http://www.OmegaSea.net <http://www.omegasea.net/> , makers of Omega One fish > foods, does have the > "Wheat Flour", "Wheat Gluten" and "Soy Flour" fillers but > they are the 3rd > and 4th and 6th ingredients, not the 2nd, 3rd, 4th and 5th > ingredients. > Further, "Fish Meal", the first ingredient in Ken's, is a > nice way of saying > ground up fish by-products, whereas the Omega One has > "Whole Salmon, Whole > Herring, Whole Shrimp" listed as the 1st, 2nd and 3rd > ingredients. > > Now, all this said, I'm certainly NOT saying that Ken's is > a bad product, as > it's very similar to the Nutrafin Max Goldfish Flakes which > has "Fish Meal, > Corn Meal, Wheat Flour, Soy Flour, Oat Meal, Squid Meal, > Fish Liver > Meal...." as the primary ingredients in it and it is also > listed as a > "premium" food according to Hagen... but my preference is > to get away from > foods that consist of too many un-natural products like the > flour based > fillers that make up so many of the ingredients in our pet > foods. > > After all, when I go to the store and buy Green Peas, even > the el cheapo > generic canned ones, I DO NOT want wheat gluten, soy flour > or any other > kinds of flour's listed in the ingredients... just "Green > Peas" and maybe > some water and probably salt and preservatives. > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://goldlenny.blogspot.com/> > (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed > on the right > side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives > by Year, Month) > > > (HERE'S THE OTHER STUFF THAT COPY/PASTED FROM THE KEN'S > PAGE WHEN I ONLY > COPY/PASTED FOUR PARAGRAPHS... STILL NOT SURE WHY THE REST > OF THIS SHOWED > UP) > > KENS PREMIUM CHICKEN LIVER FLAKE: > > EXTRA STABILIZED VITAMIN C AND FRESH FISH OIL UPGRADE THIS > COMPLETE DIET > ALONG WITH THE MAIN INGREDIENT OF FRESH CHICKEN LIVER. THE > HIGH PROTEIN > MAKES THIS EXCELLENT FOR FRY AS WELL AS GUPPIES AND OTHER > LIVE BEARERS. > > INGREDIENTS: CHICKEN LIVER, FISH MEAL, BREWERS DRIED YEAST, > SOY FLOUR. OAT > FLOUR, CORN GLUTEN MEAL, SHRIMP MEAL, DRIED PLANKTON, DRIED > SPIRULINA ALGAE, > DRIED KELP, LECITHIN, VITAMIN SUPPLEMENTS A, D3, B12, > BIOTIN, THIAMINE > (SOURCE OF VITAMIN B1), NATURAL COLORING, ASCOROBIC ACID ( > SOURCE OF VITAMIN > C). > > GUARANTEED ANALYSIS: CRUDE PROTEIN 48.0% MIN., CRUDE FAT > 9.0%MIN., CRUDE > FIBER 5.0% MAX., MOISTURE 9.0% MAX. ALL NATURAL > INGREDIENTS, EXCEPT SOME > ARTIFICIAL COLORING. NO PRESERVATIVES. > FOR PHOTO: >   1/2 LB $4.25          >           1 LB $8.00    >                 >   5 LB > $35.00 >         >   > > KENS PREMIUM MARINE FLAKE: > > THIS PREMIUM FLAKE IS EXCELLENT FOR MARINE FISH. GREAT AS > USING FOR A > STARTER FLAKE FOR YOUNG FRESHWATER FRY AS WELL. > > INGREDIENTS: WHITE FISH MEAL & WHITE FISH PROTEIN > CONCENTRATE. OAT, WHEAT, > SOYBEEN MEAL FLOURS, SHRIMP, PLANKTON & KRILL MEAL, > FISH OIL, LECITHIN, > VITAMIN MINERAL SUPPLEMENT, SPIRULINA, FROZEN BRINE SHRIMP, > KELP MEAL, > METHIONINE.ASCORBIC ACID (SOURCE OF VITAMIN C).NATURAL AND > SOME ARTIFICIAL > COLORING. > > GUARANTEED ANALYSIS: CRUDE PROTEIN 46.0% MIN., CRUDE FAT > 5.0% MIN., CRUDE > FIBER 3.0% MAX., MOISTURE 8.0% MAX., ALL NATURAL > INGREDIENTS, EXCEPT FOR > SOME ARTIFICIAL COLORING. NO PRESERVATIVES. > >   > >   1/2 LB $4.25          >           1 LB $7.95    >                 >   5 LB > $37.75 >   FOR PHOTO: >      KENS PREMIUM SPIRULINA + FLAKE > WITH GARLIC & PAPRIKA: > > THIS IS REMARKABLE FORTIFIED FOOD THAT WILL KEEP YOUR > TROPHEUS AND OTHER > FISH IN TOP FORM.THIS CONTAINS A HIGH AMOUNT OF SPIRULINA > AND THE ADDED > INGREDIENT OF GARLIC & PAPRIKA! > > INGREDIENTS: FISH MEAL, DRIED BREWERS YEAST, SOY FLOUR, > WHEAT FLOUR, OAT > FLOUR, CORN GLUTEN MEAL, DRIED SPIRULINA ALGEA, GARLIC, > SHRIMP MEAL, DRIED > KRILL, FISH OIL, PAPRIKA, LECITHIN, VITAMIN SUPPLEMENTS A, > D3, B12, BIOTIN, > NATURAL COLORING, ASCORBIC ACID (SOURCE OF VITAMIN C). > > GUARANTEED ANALYSIS: CRUDE PROTEIN 45.0% MIN., CRUDE FAT > 4.0% MAX., CRUDE > FIBER 3.2% MAX., MOISTURE 8.0% MAX. ALL NATURAL > INGREDIENTS, EXCEPT FOR SOME > ARTIFICIAL COLORING. NO PRESERVATIVES. >   1/2 LB $4.95          >           1 LB $9.75    >                 >   5 LB > $47.75 > FOR PHOTO: >   >   > >       KENS PREMIUM SUPER BRINE SHRIMP > FLAKE: > > THIS IS EXCELLENT FOR GROWTH DUE TO THE HIGH AMOUNTS OF > CRUDE PROTEIN. > EXCELLENT DIGESTABILITY AND HIGH AMOUNTS BRINE SHRIMP MAKE > UP THIS HIGH > GRADE FORMULA. > > INGREDIENTS: FISH MEAL, SHRIMP MEAL, SOY FLOUR, SOY PROTEIN > ISOLATE, FISH > PROTEIN CONCENTRATE, BREWERS DRIED YEAST, CORN STARCH, SOY > LECITHIN, DRIED > BRINE SHRIMP, SODIUM ALGINATE, FISH OIL, MENADIONE > DIMETHYIPYRIMIDINOL > BISULFATE (SOURCE OF VITAMIN K), D1-ALPHA TOCOPHERYL > ACETATE, INOSITOL, > PARAMINO BENZOIC ACID, NIACIN, CALCIUM PANTOTHENATE, > RIBOFLAVIN, BIOTIN, > PYRIDOXINE HYDROCHLORIDE, THIAMINE MONONITRATE, VITAMIN A > ACETATE, VITAMIN > B12, VITAMIN D3 SUPPLEMENT, SQUIS MEAL, EMULSIFIER, CHOLINE > CHLORIDE, > MANGANESE PROTEINATE, ZINC PROTEINATE, COPPER PROTEINATE, > CALCIUM IODATE, > IRON PEOTEINATE, COBALT PROTEINATE, CALCIUM CARBONATE, > SODIUM SELENITE, > L-ASCORBYL-2POLYPHOSPHATE (SOURCE OF VITAMIN C). > > GUARANTEED ANALYSIS: CRUDE PROTEIN 50.0% MIN., CRUDE FAT > 12.0% MAX., CRUDE > FIBER 3.0% MAX., MOISTURE 10.0% MAX. SOME ARTIFICIAL > COLORING AND > PRESERVATIVES. > FOR PHOTO: >   1/2 LB $4.75          >           1 LB $9.25    >                 >   5 LB > $44.25 >         >   > > KENS PREMIUM COLOR FLAKE WITH NATUROSE ADDED: GREAT FOR > ADDING COLOR! > NATURE'S OWN COLORING FOOD! BRINGS OUT THE RADIENT NATURAL > COLORS OF YOUR > BEST FRESHWATER AND SALTWATER FISH! NOW WITH THE ADDED > INGREDIENT OF > NATUROSE FOR ADDED COLOR ENHANCEMENT. > > INGREDIENTS: FISH MEAL BLEND, SPECIAL MIX: DRIED PLANKTON, > SHRIMP, KRILL AND > DRIED SPIRULINA ALGEA, WHEAT GLUTEN MEAL, OAT FLOUR, > BREWERS DRIED YEAST, > CAROTENE, NATUROSE, LECITHIN, SOY OIL, FISH OIL, VITAMIN > SUPPLEMENTS, A, D3, > B12, BIOTIN, NATURAL & ARTIFICIAL COLORING, ASCORBIC > ACID (SOURCE OF VITAMIN > C). > > GUARANTEED ANALYSIS: CRUDE PROTEIN 44.0% MIN., CRUDE FAT > 12.0% MIN., CRUDE > FIBER 8.0% MAX., MOISTURE 8.0% MAX. ALL NATURAL > INGREDIENTS. NO > PRESERVATIVES. > FOR PHOTO: >   1/2 LB $4.50          >           1 LB $8.75    >                 >   5 LB > $42.00 >         >   > > KENS PREMIUM BEEFHEART FLAKE: > > EXCELLENT DIET FOR ANGELS AND DISCUS. MADE WITH REAL > BEEFHEARTS TO HELP > BRING YOUR FISH INTO FULL SPAWNING CONDITION. ALSO > EXCELLENT FOR OTHER > TROPICAL FISH. > > Main Ingredients: Fish Meal, Wheat Flour, Soy Flour, Shrimp > Meal, Brewers > Dried Yeast, Krill Meal, Fish Oil, Soy Lecithin, Spirulina, > Emulsifier, > Beefhearts, Choline Chloride, Sorbitol, Propylene Glycol, > Artificial Color, > Vitamin A, Vitamin D3 Supplement, d1-Alpha Tocopheryl > Acetate (Vitamin E > Supplement), Vitamin B12 Supplement, Riboflavin, Niacin, > Calcium > Pantothenate, Menadione Sodium Bisulfite Complex (source of > vitamin K > Activity), Folic Acid, Thiamine Mononitrate, Pyridoxine > Hydrochloride, > Biotin, Manganese Proteinate, Zinc Proteinate, Copper > Proteinate, Calcium > Iodate, Iron Proteinate, Cobolt Proteinate, Calcium > Carbonate, Sodium > Selenite, Anise Oil, L-Ascorbyl-2-Polyphosphate (source or > Vitamin C), > Xanthophyll, Canthaxanthin, Ethoxyquin, TBHQ > (preservative). > > Guaranteed Analysis: Crude Protein 46.0% Min., Crude Fat > 10.0% Min., Crude > Fiber 3.0% Max., Moisture 10.0% Max. > FOR PHOTO: >   1/2 LB $4.50          >           1 LB $8.75    >                 >   5 LB > $42.00 >         >   > > KENS PREMIUM SUPER TROPICAL FLAKE: > > This is a higher protein general flake diet for all your > tropical fish. This > tropical fish flake contains spirulina, krill, Shrimp meal > to aid in > coloration. Also contains highly digestible marine proteins > to reduce > excreted waste. > > Ingredients: Fish Meal, Wheat Flour, Soy Flour, Shrimp > Meal, Brewers Dried > Yeast, Krill Meal, Soy Lecithin, Fish Oil, Emulsifier, > Choline Chloride, > Sorbitol, Propylene Glycol, Artificial Color, Spirulina, > Yeast Extract, > Calcium Phosphate, Anise Oil, Xanthophyll Pigments, > L-Ascorbyl-2- > Polyphosphate (source of Vitamin C), Canthaxanthin, > Manganese Proteinate, > Zinc Proteinate, Copper Proteinate, Calcium Iodate, Iron > Proteinate, Cobalt > Proteinate, Calcium Carbonate, Sodium Selenite, Vitamin A > Acetate, Vitamin > D3 Supplement, dl-Alpha Tocopheryl Acetate (Vitamin E > Supplement), Vitamin > B12 Supplement, Riboflavin Supplement, Niacin, Calcium > Pantothenate, > Menadione Sodium Bisulfite Complex (source of Vitamin K > Activity), Folic > Acid, Thiamine Mononitrate, Pyridoxine Hydrochloride, > Biotin, Ethoxyquin, > TBHQ (preservative). > > Guaranteed Analysis: Min. Protein 45.0%, Min. Crude Fat > 9.0%, Max Crude > Fiber 3.0%, Max Moisture 10.0%, > FOR PHOTO: >   1/2 LB $4.00          >           1 LB $7.15    >                 >   5 LB > $33.75 >         >   > > KENS PREMIUM HATCHERY FLAKE: > > EXTRA STABILIZED VITAMIN C AND FRESH FISH OIL UPGRADE THIS > COMPLETE DIET. > FOR FRESHWATER AND MARINE FISH. > > INGREDIENTS: FISH MEAL, BREWERS DRIED YEAST, SOY FLOUR. OAT > FLOUR, CORN > GLUTEN MEAL, SHRIMP MEAL, DRIED PLANKTON, DRIED SPIRULINA > ALGAE, DRIED KELP, > LECITHIN, VITAMIN SUPPLEMENTS A, D3, B12, BIOTIN, THIAMINE > (SOURCE OF > VITAMIN B1), NATURAL COLORING, ASCOROBIC ACID ( SOURCE OF > VITAMIN C). > > GUARANTEED ANALYSIS: CRUDE PROTEIN 44.0% MIN., CRUDE FAT > 9.0%MIN., CRUDE > FIBER 1.2% MAX., MOISTURE 9.0% MAX. ALL NATURAL > INGREDIENTS. NO > PRESERVATIVES. > FOR PHOTO: >   1/2 LB $3.50          >           1 LB $6.25    >                 >   5 LB > $29.75 >         >   > > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] > On > Behalf Of bill 1433 > Sent: Monday, September 21, 2009 12:44 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Black Algae Problem > > Check on the algae eater but far as I know, none eat the > black stuff.  Your > right, i've got to figure out the "Y" part.  Lights on > 10 to 12 but they are > standard tubes, 17watts each for the 20 and 29. > > Food?  Very high protein stuff from Ken's up in Mass. > Fish love it. > > Bill > > --- On Mon, 9/21/09, Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@...> > wrote: > > > From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@...> > > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Black Algae Problem > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > Date: Monday, September 21, 2009, 1:28 PM I guess the > SeaChem Flourish > > Excel might be your preferred choice... BUT... > > remember that if you do not figure out the cause and > fix the cause, it > > will simply return, so you still have to figure out > the cause. > > > > Presuming you are keeping any cycling issues in check > and thus keeping > > nitrates at a low enough level, below 20ppm, then I > would highly > > suspect either too much lighting (how long do you > leave them on each > > day and how much lighting do you have?) or direct > sunlight or other > > nutrients (mainly > > phosphates) that you may be getting from your well > water or from many > > foods that list phosphorous percentages (I've seen > many that have MUCH > > higher levels than others). > > > > I'm looking at three of my store bought foods right > now.  Omega One > > Medium Goldfish Pellets lists "Min. Phosphorous > (0.5%)".  I'm not sure > > why it's in brackets ( ), as the other analysis levels > are not in > > brackets... could this mean negative???, I have to > check with Omega > > One.  My Hikari Algae Wafers has "Guaranteed > Analysis" as "Phosphorous > > min 0.7%" but then in a separate section called > "Typical Analysis", it > > has "Phosphorous 1.4%".  My Hagen Nutrafin Max > Goldfish Flake Food has > > "Phosphorous min 0.5%, max 0.9%". > > > > I've seen other foods where they "advertise" on the > package of having > > less than 3% phosphorous or something like that, which > means they are > > simply taking advantage of the uninformed as those > levels of > > phosphorous are 3X to 6X the levels of the three foods > I just listed > > and even the Hikari Algae Wafers has nearly 2X to 3X > more than the > > other two. > > > > As usual with store bought foods, check the > ingredients. > > > > Last but not least, if you have bioload room in the > tanks and cannot > > figure out the cause of the algae, you might want to > consider a small > > algae eater. > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://goldlenny.blogspot.com/>  (Links to any > articles > > referenced in above reply are listed on the right > side, alphabetically > > under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) > > > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] > > On > > Behalf Of bill 1433 > > Sent: Monday, September 21, 2009 11:48 AM > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Black Algae Problem > > > > Len, > > > > I understand what your trying to say and thanks for > the > > help but the problem > > is the stuff is everywhere.  Not real heavy and > can > > usually just be wiped > > off with the clean cloth, the problems come in at the > > "where" part. > > > > For instance pieces of gravel, not all mind you just > some, > > you know, so > > you'll notice it! > > > > What I need is a way to dose the whole tank at once > without > > having to worry > > about checking for survivors when I'm done.  The > hp > > seems to infer direct > > contact.  Working with a syringe it would > probably > > take me to Christmas to > > get the whole tank done by this method, which is why > I'm > > looking at Seachem. > > Now if there was some way of using the HP in this > method it > > would be great > > but most articles seem to infer this direct contact > > approach. > > > > Thanks, Bill > > > > > > > > --- On Mon, 9/21/09, Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@...> > > wrote: > > > > > From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@...> > > > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Black Algae Problem > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > > Date: Monday, September 21, 2009, 12:21 PM I > know > > TheKrib's thread is > > > from late 1990's - early 2000's but IT is some of > the > > best info out > > > there on the net.  EVERY forum thread that > I've ever > > seen in any other > > > forum still refers to TheKrib's thread as THE > guide > > for using Hydrogen > > > Peroxide.  I know the dosages are or can be > confusing > > in that thread > > > as that was raw data compiled by posting around > 20 > > experienced replies > > > to make that page, which is why I included the > one > > paragraph about > > > what the safe dosage was, as I know it from > reading > > many other forum > > > threads over the years and using it myself in > the > > past. > > > > > > 1 oz. per 10G has been used on tanks with fry but > if > > you are more > > > concerned, halve that dosage.  Do the dosing > during > > the day so the > > > lights stay on for a while after the dose as > light > > helps to break down > > > the HP faster.  Since you are using a > syringe (minus > > needle) to apply > > > the HP, it's the direct contact of the HP on the > algae > > that does the > > > job and then the HP breaks down into water and > > oxygen.  Do a PWC the > > > next day (or even be prepared to do a PWC after > dosing > > if your fish > > > are showing any signs of distress but the 1 oz. > > > per 10G should be OK.  1 oz. equals around > 30ml > > (actually 29.57ml if > > > you have a highly calibrated syringe... lol). > > > > > > In TheKrib's page, there were people who > experimented > > with using as > > > much as 60ml per 10G (2 oz. per 10G) which was > found > > to cause issues > > > for sensitive snails and ghost shrimp and some > fish. > > Others would > > > dose with their filters off, worried about the > HP > > causing harm to the > > > filters, but that could also cause problems as it > did > > not > > > disperse/dilute the HP fast enough in the water > > column.  Just leave > > > your filters running BUT do not squirt the HP > close > > enough to a filter > > > intake.  If you need to dose near the > filter, unplug > > it for a moment, > > > do the dose, use something to stir up the water > in > > that area, then > > > turn the filter back on.  Leave the lights > on for > > several hours after > > > using HP.  Do the PWC the next day and dose > again as > > needed. > > > > > > > > > > > > As far as the Excel, which is an EXPENSIVE > alternative > > treatment, here > > > are a couple of forum threads on the topic, with > some > > users using up > > > to 5X the proper dose of Excel, every 3 days. > > > > > > > > > http://www.aquaticplantcentral.com/forumapc/algae/3806-flourish-excel-got-ri > > d-all-my.html (25 page thread) > > > > > > SeaChem's official reply. > > > http://www.seachem.com/support/forums/showthread.php?t=682 > > > > > > The top FAQ on this page is another of SeaChem's > > official replies. > > > http://www.seachem.com/support/FAQs/FlourishExcel.html > > > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://goldlenny.blogspot.com/>  (Links to > > any articles > > > referenced in above reply are listed on the > right > > side, alphabetically > > > under Labels and also under Archives by Year, > Month) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] > > > On > > > Behalf Of bill 1433 > > > Sent: Monday, September 21, 2009 8:40 AM > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Black Algae Problem > > > > > > Hi Len, > > >  > > > \\Steve// also suggested this BUT, even with the > links > > you > > > sent (some dated) > > > it appears that there is great controversy over > > dosage. > > >  > > > The fish in the tank are 9 rams at 5 months old > and 3 > > Cory > > > cats.  Those Rams > > > were a long time coming and I really don't want > > anything to > > > happen to them. > > >  > > > On the other hand, some for other groups mention > the > > use of > > > SeaChem's Excel > > > but again, nobody seems to have an dosage level > for > > > positive results. > > > Looking at their web-site they do mention this > on > > their > > > support page but > > > since this is a by-pass type of reaction they are > not > > being > > > specific as to > > > dosage either.  Unless they just mean to use > the > > product > > > by its instructions > > > on the bottle to boost carbon for plants. > > Information so > > > far has been "ify" > > > at best.  I don't want to hurt those Rams. > > >  > > > Bill--where Rams Rule! > > > > > > --- On Mon, 9/21/09, Lenny V. aka GoldLenny > <GoldLenny@...> > > > wrote: > > > > > > > From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@...> > > > > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Black Algae > Problem > > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > > > Date: Monday, September 21, 2009, 1:29 AM > Bill, > > > > > > > > If I recall correctly, you do NOT have any > live > > > plants... > > > > right? > > > > > > > > Here's a thread about using HP for algae > issues, > > > including suggested > > > > dosages, etc. > > > > > > > > http://www.thekrib.com/Plants/Algae/hydrogen-peroxide.html > > > > > > > > And an article. > > > > > > > > http://www.malawicichlidhomepage.com/aquainfo/algae_peroxide.html > > > > > > > > The basic safe dose for fish and plants is 1 > oz. > > per > > > 10G per day, with > > > > PWC's between each treatment and do not dose > the > > tank > > > close to the > > > > intake to your filter(s).  If you have > > sensitive > > > shrimp or snails and > > > > someone mentioned oto's, then you might want > to > > halve > > > that dosage. > > > > > > > > One other question, are you sure you have > "black > > > algae".  Algae is > > > > another thing in the aquarium hobby that > suffers > > from > > > common name > > > > abuse so look over these articles and I can > give > > you > > > several other > > > > sites about algae, if you don't have them > > already, for > > > even more > > > > reading. > > > > You'll see what I mean > > > > about the common name problem. > > > > > > > > If your water testing is showing low levels > of > > > nitrates and other > > > > nitrogenous compounds, then you might want > to > > check > > > your phosphate > > > > levels in your source water and tank.  > Also, > > many > > > fish foods are a BIG > > > > source of phosphates so check them also and > > maybe > > > change over to a > > > > lower phosphate level food. > > > > > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://goldlenny.blogspot.com/>  (Links to > > > any articles > > > > referenced in above reply are listed on the > > right > > > side, alphabetically > > > > under Labels and also under Archives by > Year, > > Month) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > > > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] > > > > On > > > > Behalf Of Steve Szabo > > > > Sent: Sunday, September 20, 2009 10:50 PM > > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > > > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Black Algae > Problem > > > > > > > > Bill, > > > > > > > > Get some hydrogen peroxide (normally found > in a > > 3% > > > > solution) and a syringe. > > > > With the syringe, apply the hydrogen > peroxide > > directly > > > to > > > > the black algae. > > > > This should kill the black algae without > harming > > any > > > plants > > > > or fish in the > > > > process, since hydrogen peroxide will break > down > > > fairly > > > > rapidly to the main > > > > components, water and oxygen, > > > > > > > > \\Steve// > > > > > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > > > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] > > > > On > > > > Behalf Of bill 1433 > > > > Sent: Sunday, September 20, 2009 11:23 PM > > > > To: AquaticLife > > > > Subject: [AquaticLife] Black Algae Problem > > > > > > > > I have started getting a black algae problem > that > > I > > > am > > > > trying to live with > > > > but have not been able to conquer.  The > tanks > > are a > > > > standard 29-gallon Ram > > > > tank and a 20-gallon long with Neon Tetras > in > > it. > > > >  > > > > I may have posted this problem a few months > ago > > and > > > have > > > > been living with it > > > > through cleaning and water changes but the > > problem > > > has > > > > never really > > > > completely cleared.  Someone mentioned > the use > > of > > > > Seachem's Excel to kill it > > > > but I'm not sure of proper dosage or how > long. > > All > > > water > > > > tests are fine and > > > > pH is 7.0 > > > > > > > > Bill > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > ------------------------------------ > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when > replying, Thank You. > ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> > ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> > PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is > NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of > the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new > subject (was re: old subject)" <- > <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. > , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. > > If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of > unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by > clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the home page.  > > Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com > to receive the digest, which includes up to 25 posts at a > time in a single email > > Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com > for the No E-Mail option where you will still be able to > read messages on the group and post replies. > > Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com > to receive individual e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links > > >     mailto:AquaticLife-fullfeatured@yahoogroups.com > > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 43517	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 9/21/2009
Subject: Re: Black Algae Problem

That was my thought too Bill, but I thought you might get it, since Steve was talking to you ;) LOL. I'm guessing it's a joke of some sort, knowing Steve ;) hehe. If it makes you feel better Bill my 125 gallon tank has a ton of black beard algae, and it's like glue when it grows on something, I have to scrape it off with a fingernail to get it to come off, and it takes several tries. Not sure if you have the same type of algae or not. Does it look like a fuzzy black carpet and it's really hard to remove from ornaments? I tend to suck it up with the gravel vac if it's stuck to bits of gravel ;) (not the python as it doesn't make it all the way upstairs, yes I know odd arrangement for the python but my lower faucet doesn't have enough water pressure to run the python it doesn't create a suction at all). Amber bill 1433 wrote: > > > CSS? > > Bill > > --- On Mon, 9/21/09, Steve Szabo <steve@... > <mailto:steve%40familyszabo.com>> wrote: > > > From: Steve Szabo <steve@... > <mailto:steve%40familyszabo.com>> > > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Black Algae Problem > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > Date: Monday, September 21, 2009, 4:44 PM > > Ken seems to sell good food from the > > reports that I have received. I have never heard it be > > mentioned along with algae as a causative agent. > > > > I'd say that what you experienced, Gold One, is probably an > > artifact of the use of CSS. > > > > \\Steve// > > > > ________________________________ > > > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > on behalf of Lenny V. aka GoldLenny > > Sent: Mon 9/21/2009 2:24 PM > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Black Algae Problem > > > > > > > > I do not know much about "Ken's up in Mass" so I Googled > > and found this, > > http://kensfish.com <http://kensfish.com> <http://kensfish.com/ > <http://kensfish.com/>> , and this page > > on their Ken's Premium Flake Food, > > http://kensfish.com/kensflake1.html, > <http://kensfish.com/kensflake1.html,> does not list the > > phosphorous content > > (You might want to email them and ask about the phosphorous > > content) > > > > Well, that was weird.... I did a copy/paste of what I could > > "see" on the > > above page, which was the next four paragraphs but when I > > pasted it here, a > > LOT more info showed up on other products as well. > > I've never seen this > > happen before but I'll leave it anyhow. > > > > (START OF COPY/PASTE) > > KENS PREMIUM TROPICAL FISH FLAKE: > > > > EXTRA STABILIZED VITAMIN C AND FRESH FISH OIL UPGRADE THIS > > COMPLETE DIET. > > FOR FRESHWATER AND MARINE FISH. > > > > INGREDIENTS: FISH MEAL, BREWERS DRIED YEAST, SOY FLOUR. OAT > > FLOUR, CORN > > GLUTEN MEAL, SHRIMP MEAL, DRIED PLANKTON, DRIED SPIRULINA > > ALGAE, DRIED KELP, > > LECITHIN, VITAMIN SUPPLEMENTS A, D3, B12, BIOTIN, THIAMINE > > (SOURCE OF > > VITAMIN B1), NATURAL COLORING, ASCOROBIC ACID ( SOURCE OF > > VITAMIN C). > > > > GUARANTEED ANALYSIS: CRUDE PROTEIN 44.0% MIN., CRUDE FAT > > 9.0%MIN., CRUDE > > FIBER 1.2% MAX., MOISTURE 9.0% MAX. ALL NATURAL > > INGREDIENTS. NO > > PRESERVATIVES. > > > > (THIS WAS SUPPOSED TO BE THE END OF THE COPY/PASTE BUT SEE > > DOWN BELOW MY SIG > > FOR MORE INFO THAT SHOWED UP WITH THE PASTE, AND I STILL DO > > NOT KNOW WHY... > > MAYBE \\STEVE// HAS SEEN THIS BEFORE) > > > > Anyhow, as you can see, no mention of Phosphorous > > content. I'm not so sure > > it's as "premium" as it claims. The ingredients look > > very similar to the > > ingredients on many of the "cheap" fish foods. Other > > than the "Fish Meal" > > as the first ingredient, the next four are just fillers, > > IMO, before it > > returns to what looks like decent ingredients again, like > > the "Dried > > Plankton, Dried Spirulina Algae, Dried Kelp" and then it > > goes into the > > vitamins section. > > > > For comparison, here's the ingredients on my Omega One > > Goldfish Pellets > > (Medium): > > http://www.omegasea.net/medium_goldfish_pellets.html > <http://www.omegasea.net/medium_goldfish_pellets.html> > > INGREDIENTS: Whole Salmon, Whole Herring, Whole Shrimp, > > Wheat Flour, Wheat > > Gluten, Fresh Kelp, Soy Flour, Astaxanthin, > > L-Ascorbyl-2-Phosphate (Source > > of Vitamin C), Natural and Artificial Colors, Vitamin A > > Acetate, Vitamin D3 > > Supplement, Vitamin E Supplement, Vitamin B12 Supplement, > > Riboflavin, > > Niacin, Pantothenic Acid, Folic Acid, Biotin, Inositol, > > Tocopherol > > (Preservative), Ethoxyquin (Preservative). > > > > Yes, http://www.OmegaSea.net <http://www.OmegaSea.net> > <http://www.omegasea.net/ <http://www.omegasea.net/>> , makers of > Omega One fish > > foods, does have the > > "Wheat Flour", "Wheat Gluten" and "Soy Flour" fillers but > > they are the 3rd > > and 4th and 6th ingredients, not the 2nd, 3rd, 4th and 5th > > ingredients. > > Further, "Fish Meal", the first ingredient in Ken's, is a > > nice way of saying > > ground up fish by-products, whereas the Omega One has > > "Whole Salmon, Whole > > Herring, Whole Shrimp" listed as the 1st, 2nd and 3rd > > ingredients. > > > > Now, all this said, I'm certainly NOT saying that Ken's is > > a bad product, as > > it's very similar to the Nutrafin Max Goldfish Flakes which > > has "Fish Meal, > > Corn Meal, Wheat Flour, Soy Flour, Oat Meal, Squid Meal, > > Fish Liver > > Meal...." as the primary ingredients in it and it is also > > listed as a > > "premium" food according to Hagen... but my preference is > > to get away from > > foods that consist of too many un-natural products like the > > flour based > > fillers that make up so many of the ingredients in our pet > > foods. > > > > After all, when I go to the store and buy Green Peas, even > > the el cheapo > > generic canned ones, I DO NOT want wheat gluten, soy flour > > or any other > > kinds of flour's listed in the ingredients... just "Green > > Peas" and maybe > > some water and probably salt and preservatives. > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> <http://goldlenny.blogspot.com/ > <http://goldlenny.blogspot.com/>> > > (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed > > on the right > > side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives > > by Year, Month) > > > > > > (HERE'S THE OTHER STUFF THAT COPY/PASTED FROM THE KEN'S > > PAGE WHEN I ONLY > > COPY/PASTED FOUR PARAGRAPHS... STILL NOT SURE WHY THE REST > > OF THIS SHOWED > > UP) > > > > KENS PREMIUM CHICKEN LIVER FLAKE: > > > > EXTRA STABILIZED VITAMIN C AND FRESH FISH OIL UPGRADE THIS > > COMPLETE DIET > > ALONG WITH THE MAIN INGREDIENT OF FRESH CHICKEN LIVER. THE > > HIGH PROTEIN > > MAKES THIS EXCELLENT FOR FRY AS WELL AS GUPPIES AND OTHER > > LIVE BEARERS. > > > > INGREDIENTS: CHICKEN LIVER, FISH MEAL, BREWERS DRIED YEAST, > > SOY FLOUR. OAT > > FLOUR, CORN GLUTEN MEAL, SHRIMP MEAL, DRIED PLANKTON, DRIED > > SPIRULINA ALGAE, > > DRIED KELP, LECITHIN, VITAMIN SUPPLEMENTS A, D3, B12, > > BIOTIN, THIAMINE > > (SOURCE OF VITAMIN B1), NATURAL COLORING, ASCOROBIC ACID ( > > SOURCE OF VITAMIN > > C). > > > > GUARANTEED ANALYSIS: CRUDE PROTEIN 48.0% MIN., CRUDE FAT > > 9.0%MIN., CRUDE > > FIBER 5.0% MAX., MOISTURE 9.0% MAX. ALL NATURAL > > INGREDIENTS, EXCEPT SOME > > ARTIFICIAL COLORING. NO PRESERVATIVES. > > FOR PHOTO: > > 1/2 LB $4.25 > > 1 LB $8.00 > > > > 5 LB > > $35.00 > > > > > > > > KENS PREMIUM MARINE FLAKE: > > > > THIS PREMIUM FLAKE IS EXCELLENT FOR MARINE FISH. GREAT AS > > USING FOR A > > STARTER FLAKE FOR YOUNG FRESHWATER FRY AS WELL. > > > > INGREDIENTS: WHITE FISH MEAL & WHITE FISH PROTEIN > > CONCENTRATE. OAT, WHEAT, > > SOYBEEN MEAL FLOURS, SHRIMP, PLANKTON & KRILL MEAL, > > FISH OIL, LECITHIN, > > VITAMIN MINERAL SUPPLEMENT, SPIRULINA, FROZEN BRINE SHRIMP, > > KELP MEAL, > > METHIONINE.ASCORBIC ACID (SOURCE OF VITAMIN C).NATURAL AND > > SOME ARTIFICIAL > > COLORING. > > > > GUARANTEED ANALYSIS: CRUDE PROTEIN 46.0% MIN., CRUDE FAT > > 5.0% MIN., CRUDE > > FIBER 3.0% MAX., MOISTURE 8.0% MAX., ALL NATURAL > > INGREDIENTS, EXCEPT FOR > > SOME ARTIFICIAL COLORING. NO PRESERVATIVES. > > > > > > > > 1/2 LB $4.25 > > 1 LB $7.95 > > > > 5 LB > > $37.75 > > FOR PHOTO: > > KENS PREMIUM SPIRULINA + FLAKE > > WITH GARLIC & PAPRIKA: > > > > THIS IS REMARKABLE FORTIFIED FOOD THAT WILL KEEP YOUR > > TROPHEUS AND OTHER > > FISH IN TOP FORM.THIS CONTAINS A HIGH AMOUNT OF SPIRULINA > > AND THE ADDED > > INGREDIENT OF GARLIC & PAPRIKA! > > > > INGREDIENTS: FISH MEAL, DRIED BREWERS YEAST, SOY FLOUR, > > WHEAT FLOUR, OAT > > FLOUR, CORN GLUTEN MEAL, DRIED SPIRULINA ALGEA, GARLIC, > > SHRIMP MEAL, DRIED > > KRILL, FISH OIL, PAPRIKA, LECITHIN, VITAMIN SUPPLEMENTS A, > > D3, B12, BIOTIN, > > NATURAL COLORING, ASCORBIC ACID (SOURCE OF VITAMIN C). > > > > GUARANTEED ANALYSIS: CRUDE PROTEIN 45.0% MIN., CRUDE FAT > > 4.0% MAX., CRUDE > > FIBER 3.2% MAX., MOISTURE 8.0% MAX. ALL NATURAL > > INGREDIENTS, EXCEPT FOR SOME > > ARTIFICIAL COLORING. NO PRESERVATIVES. > > 1/2 LB $4.95 > > 1 LB $9.75 > > > > 5 LB > > $47.75 > > FOR PHOTO: > > > > > > > > KENS PREMIUM SUPER BRINE SHRIMP > > FLAKE: > > > > THIS IS EXCELLENT FOR GROWTH DUE TO THE HIGH AMOUNTS OF > > CRUDE PROTEIN. > > EXCELLENT DIGESTABILITY AND HIGH AMOUNTS BRINE SHRIMP MAKE > > UP THIS HIGH > > GRADE FORMULA. > > > > INGREDIENTS: FISH MEAL, SHRIMP MEAL, SOY FLOUR, SOY PROTEIN > > ISOLATE, FISH > > PROTEIN CONCENTRATE, BREWERS DRIED YEAST, CORN STARCH, SOY > > LECITHIN, DRIED > > BRINE SHRIMP, SODIUM ALGINATE, FISH OIL, MENADIONE > > DIMETHYIPYRIMIDINOL > > BISULFATE (SOURCE OF VITAMIN K), D1-ALPHA TOCOPHERYL > > ACETATE, INOSITOL, > > PARAMINO BENZOIC ACID, NIACIN, CALCIUM PANTOTHENATE, > > RIBOFLAVIN, BIOTIN, > > PYRIDOXINE HYDROCHLORIDE, THIAMINE MONONITRATE, VITAMIN A > > ACETATE, VITAMIN > > B12, VITAMIN D3 SUPPLEMENT, SQUIS MEAL, EMULSIFIER, CHOLINE > > CHLORIDE, > > MANGANESE PROTEINATE, ZINC PROTEINATE, COPPER PROTEINATE, > > CALCIUM IODATE, > > IRON PEOTEINATE, COBALT PROTEINATE, CALCIUM CARBONATE, > > SODIUM SELENITE, > > L-ASCORBYL-2POLYPHOSPHATE (SOURCE OF VITAMIN C). > > > > GUARANTEED ANALYSIS: CRUDE PROTEIN 50.0% MIN., CRUDE FAT > > 12.0% MAX., CRUDE > > FIBER 3.0% MAX., MOISTURE 10.0% MAX. SOME ARTIFICIAL > > COLORING AND > > PRESERVATIVES. > > FOR PHOTO: > > 1/2 LB $4.75 > > 1 LB $9.25 > > > > 5 LB > > $44.25 > > > > > > > > KENS PREMIUM COLOR FLAKE WITH NATUROSE ADDED: GREAT FOR > > ADDING COLOR! > > NATURE'S OWN COLORING FOOD! BRINGS OUT THE RADIENT NATURAL > > COLORS OF YOUR > > BEST FRESHWATER AND SALTWATER FISH! NOW WITH THE ADDED > > INGREDIENT OF > > NATUROSE FOR ADDED COLOR ENHANCEMENT. > > > > INGREDIENTS: FISH MEAL BLEND, SPECIAL MIX: DRIED PLANKTON, > > SHRIMP, KRILL AND > > DRIED SPIRULINA ALGEA, WHEAT GLUTEN MEAL, OAT FLOUR, > > BREWERS DRIED YEAST, > > CAROTENE, NATUROSE, LECITHIN, SOY OIL, FISH OIL, VITAMIN > > SUPPLEMENTS, A, D3, > > B12, BIOTIN, NATURAL & ARTIFICIAL COLORING, ASCORBIC > > ACID (SOURCE OF VITAMIN > > C). > > > > GUARANTEED ANALYSIS: CRUDE PROTEIN 44.0% MIN., CRUDE FAT > > 12.0% MIN., CRUDE > > FIBER 8.0% MAX., MOISTURE 8.0% MAX. ALL NATURAL > > INGREDIENTS. NO > > PRESERVATIVES. > > FOR PHOTO: > > 1/2 LB $4.50 > > 1 LB $8.75 > > > > 5 LB > > $42.00 > > > > > > > > KENS PREMIUM BEEFHEART FLAKE: > > > > EXCELLENT DIET FOR ANGELS AND DISCUS. MADE WITH REAL > > BEEFHEARTS TO HELP > > BRING YOUR FISH INTO FULL SPAWNING CONDITION. ALSO > > EXCELLENT FOR OTHER > > TROPICAL FISH. > > > > Main Ingredients: Fish Meal, Wheat Flour, Soy Flour, Shrimp > > Meal, Brewers > > Dried Yeast, Krill Meal, Fish Oil, Soy Lecithin, Spirulina, > > Emulsifier, > > Beefhearts, Choline Chloride, Sorbitol, Propylene Glycol, > > Artificial Color, > > Vitamin A, Vitamin D3 Supplement, d1-Alpha Tocopheryl > > Acetate (Vitamin E > > Supplement), Vitamin B12 Supplement, Riboflavin, Niacin, > > Calcium > > Pantothenate, Menadione Sodium Bisulfite Complex (source of > > vitamin K > > Activity), Folic Acid, Thiamine Mononitrate, Pyridoxine > > Hydrochloride, > > Biotin, Manganese Proteinate, Zinc Proteinate, Copper > > Proteinate, Calcium > > Iodate, Iron Proteinate, Cobolt Proteinate, Calcium > > Carbonate, Sodium > > Selenite, Anise Oil, L-Ascorbyl-2-Polyphosphate (source or > > Vitamin C), > > Xanthophyll, Canthaxanthin, Ethoxyquin, TBHQ > > (preservative). > > > > Guaranteed Analysis: Crude Protein 46.0% Min., Crude Fat > > 10.0% Min., Crude > > Fiber 3.0% Max., Moisture 10.0% Max. > > FOR PHOTO: > > 1/2 LB $4.50 > > 1 LB $8.75 > > > > 5 LB > > $42.00 > > > > > > > > KENS PREMIUM SUPER TROPICAL FLAKE: > > > > This is a higher protein general flake diet for all your > > tropical fish. This > > tropical fish flake contains spirulina, krill, Shrimp meal > > to aid in > > coloration. Also contains highly digestible marine proteins > > to reduce > > excreted waste. > > > > Ingredients: Fish Meal, Wheat Flour, Soy Flour, Shrimp > > Meal, Brewers Dried > > Yeast, Krill Meal, Soy Lecithin, Fish Oil, Emulsifier, > > Choline Chloride, > > Sorbitol, Propylene Glycol, Artificial Color, Spirulina, > > Yeast Extract, > > Calcium Phosphate, Anise Oil, Xanthophyll Pigments, > > L-Ascorbyl-2- > > Polyphosphate (source of Vitamin C), Canthaxanthin, > > Manganese Proteinate, > > Zinc Proteinate, Copper Proteinate, Calcium Iodate, Iron > > Proteinate, Cobalt > > Proteinate, Calcium Carbonate, Sodium Selenite, Vitamin A > > Acetate, Vitamin > > D3 Supplement, dl-Alpha Tocopheryl Acetate (Vitamin E > > Supplement), Vitamin > > B12 Supplement, Riboflavin Supplement, Niacin, Calcium > > Pantothenate, > > Menadione Sodium Bisulfite Complex (source of Vitamin K > > Activity), Folic > > Acid, Thiamine Mononitrate, Pyridoxine Hydrochloride, > > Biotin, Ethoxyquin, > > TBHQ (preservative). > > > > Guaranteed Analysis: Min. Protein 45.0%, Min. Crude Fat > > 9.0%, Max Crude > > Fiber 3.0%, Max Moisture 10.0%, > > FOR PHOTO: > > 1/2 LB $4.00 > > 1 LB $7.15 > > > > 5 LB > > $33.75 > > > > > > > > KENS PREMIUM HATCHERY FLAKE: > > > > EXTRA STABILIZED VITAMIN C AND FRESH FISH OIL UPGRADE THIS > > COMPLETE DIET. > > FOR FRESHWATER AND MARINE FISH. > > > > INGREDIENTS: FISH MEAL, BREWERS DRIED YEAST, SOY FLOUR. OAT > > FLOUR, CORN > > GLUTEN MEAL, SHRIMP MEAL, DRIED PLANKTON, DRIED SPIRULINA > > ALGAE, DRIED KELP, > > LECITHIN, VITAMIN SUPPLEMENTS A, D3, B12, BIOTIN, THIAMINE > > (SOURCE OF > > VITAMIN B1), NATURAL COLORING, ASCOROBIC ACID ( SOURCE OF > > VITAMIN C). > > > > GUARANTEED ANALYSIS: CRUDE PROTEIN 44.0% MIN., CRUDE FAT > > 9.0%MIN., CRUDE > > FIBER 1.2% MAX., MOISTURE 9.0% MAX. ALL NATURAL > > INGREDIENTS. NO > > PRESERVATIVES. > > FOR PHOTO: > > 1/2 LB $3.50 > > 1 LB $6.25 > > > > 5 LB > > $29.75 > > > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] > > On > > Behalf Of bill 1433 > > Sent: Monday, September 21, 2009 12:44 PM > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Black Algae Problem > > > > Check on the algae eater but far as I know, none eat the > > black stuff. Your > > right, i've got to figure out the "Y" part. Lights on > > 10 to 12 but they are > > standard tubes, 17watts each for the 20 and 29. > > > > Food? Very high protein stuff from Ken's up in Mass. > > Fish love it. > > > > Bill > > > > --- On Mon, 9/21/09, Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@... > <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com>> > > wrote: > > > > > From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@... > <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com>> > > > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Black Algae Problem > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > Date: Monday, September 21, 2009, 1:28 PM I guess the > > SeaChem Flourish > > > Excel might be your preferred choice... BUT... > > > remember that if you do not figure out the cause and > > fix the cause, it > > > will simply return, so you still have to figure out > > the cause. > > > > > > Presuming you are keeping any cycling issues in check > > and thus keeping > > > nitrates at a low enough level, below 20ppm, then I > > would highly > > > suspect either too much lighting (how long do you > > leave them on each > > > day and how much lighting do you have?) or direct > > sunlight or other > > > nutrients (mainly > > > phosphates) that you may be getting from your well > > water or from many > > > foods that list phosphorous percentages (I've seen > > many that have MUCH > > > higher levels than others). > > > > > > I'm looking at three of my store bought foods right > > now. Omega One > > > Medium Goldfish Pellets lists "Min. Phosphorous > > (0.5%)". I'm not sure > > > why it's in brackets ( ), as the other analysis levels > > are not in > > > brackets... could this mean negative???, I have to > > check with Omega > > > One. My Hikari Algae Wafers has "Guaranteed > > Analysis" as "Phosphorous > > > min 0.7%" but then in a separate section called > > "Typical Analysis", it > > > has "Phosphorous 1.4%". My Hagen Nutrafin Max > > Goldfish Flake Food has > > > "Phosphorous min 0.5%, max 0.9%". > > > > > > I've seen other foods where they "advertise" on the > > package of having > > > less than 3% phosphorous or something like that, which > > means they are > > > simply taking advantage of the uninformed as those > > levels of > > > phosphorous are 3X to 6X the levels of the three foods > > I just listed > > > and even the Hikari Algae Wafers has nearly 2X to 3X > > more than the > > > other two. > > > > > > As usual with store bought foods, check the > > ingredients. > > > > > > Last but not least, if you have bioload room in the > > tanks and cannot > > > figure out the cause of the algae, you might want to > > consider a small > > > algae eater. > > > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> <http://goldlenny.blogspot.com/ > <http://goldlenny.blogspot.com/>> (Links to any > > articles > > > referenced in above reply are listed on the right > > side, alphabetically > > > under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] > > > On > > > Behalf Of bill 1433 > > > Sent: Monday, September 21, 2009 11:48 AM > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Black Algae Problem > > > > > > Len, > > > > > > I understand what your trying to say and thanks for > > the > > > help but the problem > > > is the stuff is everywhere. Not real heavy and > > can > > > usually just be wiped > > > off with the clean cloth, the problems come in at the > > > "where" part. > > > > > > For instance pieces of gravel, not all mind you just > > some, > > > you know, so > > > you'll notice it! > > > > > > What I need is a way to dose the whole tank at once > > without > > > having to worry > > > about checking for survivors when I'm done. The > > hp > > > seems to infer direct > > > contact. Working with a syringe it would > > probably > > > take me to Christmas to > > > get the whole tank done by this method, which is why > > I'm > > > looking at Seachem. > > > Now if there was some way of using the HP in this > > method it > > > would be great > > > but most articles seem to infer this direct contact > > > approach. > > > > > > Thanks, Bill > > > > > > > > > > > > --- On Mon, 9/21/09, Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@... > <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com>> > > > wrote: > > > > > > > From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@... > <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com>> > > > > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Black Algae Problem > > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > Date: Monday, September 21, 2009, 12:21 PM I > > know > > > TheKrib's thread is > > > > from late 1990's - early 2000's but IT is some of > > the > > > best info out > > > > there on the net. EVERY forum thread that > > I've ever > > > seen in any other > > > > forum still refers to TheKrib's thread as THE > > guide > > > for using Hydrogen > > > > Peroxide. I know the dosages are or can be > > confusing > > > in that thread > > > > as that was raw data compiled by posting around > > 20 > > > experienced replies > > > > to make that page, which is why I included the > > one > > > paragraph about > > > > what the safe dosage was, as I know it from > > reading > > > many other forum > > > > threads over the years and using it myself in > > the > > > past. > > > > > > > > 1 oz. per 10G has been used on tanks with fry but > > if > > > you are more > > > > concerned, halve that dosage. Do the dosing > > during > > > the day so the > > > > lights stay on for a while after the dose as > > light > > > helps to break down > > > > the HP faster. Since you are using a > > syringe (minus > > > needle) to apply > > > > the HP, it's the direct contact of the HP on the > > algae > > > that does the > > > > job and then the HP breaks down into water and > > > oxygen. Do a PWC the > > > > next day (or even be prepared to do a PWC after > > dosing > > > if your fish > > > > are showing any signs of distress but the 1 oz. > > > > per 10G should be OK. 1 oz. equals around > > 30ml > > > (actually 29.57ml if > > > > you have a highly calibrated syringe... lol). > > > > > > > > In TheKrib's page, there were people who > > experimented > > > with using as > > > > much as 60ml per 10G (2 oz. per 10G) which was > > found > > > to cause issues > > > > for sensitive snails and ghost shrimp and some > > fish. > > > Others would > > > > dose with their filters off, worried about the > > HP > > > causing harm to the > > > > filters, but that could also cause problems as it > > did > > > not > > > > disperse/dilute the HP fast enough in the water > > > column. Just leave > > > > your filters running BUT do not squirt the HP > > close > > > enough to a filter > > > > intake. If you need to dose near the > > filter, unplug > > > it for a moment, > > > > do the dose, use something to stir up the water > > in > > > that area, then > > > > turn the filter back on. Leave the lights > > on for > > > several hours after > > > > using HP. Do the PWC the next day and dose > > again as > > > needed. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > As far as the Excel, which is an EXPENSIVE > > alternative > > > treatment, here > > > > are a couple of forum threads on the topic, with > > some > > > users using up > > > > to 5X the proper dose of Excel, every 3 days. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > http://www.aquaticplantcentral.com/forumapc/algae/3806-flourish-excel-got-ri > <http://www.aquaticplantcentral.com/forumapc/algae/3806-flourish-excel-got-ri> > > > d-all-my.html (25 page thread) > > > > > > > > SeaChem's official reply. > > > > http://www.seachem.com/support/forums/showthread.php?t=682 > <http://www.seachem.com/support/forums/showthread.php?t=682> > > > > > > > > The top FAQ on this page is another of SeaChem's > > > official replies. > > > > http://www.seachem.com/support/FAQs/FlourishExcel.html > <http://www.seachem.com/support/FAQs/FlourishExcel.html> > > > > > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> <http://goldlenny.blogspot.com/ > <http://goldlenny.blogspot.com/>> (Links to > > > any articles > > > > referenced in above reply are listed on the > > right > > > side, alphabetically > > > > under Labels and also under Archives by Year, > > Month) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] > > > > On > > > > Behalf Of bill 1433 > > > > Sent: Monday, September 21, 2009 8:40 AM > > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Black Algae Problem > > > > > > > > Hi Len, > > > > > > > > \\Steve// also suggested this BUT, even with the > > links > > > you > > > > sent (some dated) > > > > it appears that there is great controversy over > > > dosage. > > > > > > > > The fish in the tank are 9 rams at 5 months old > > and 3 > > > Cory > > > > cats. Those Rams > > > > were a long time coming and I really don't want > > > anything to > > > > happen to them. > > > > > > > > On the other hand, some for other groups mention > > the > > > use of > > > > SeaChem's Excel > > > > but again, nobody seems to have an dosage level > > for > > > > positive results. > > > > Looking at their web-site they do mention this > > on > > > their > > > > support page but > > > > since this is a by-pass type of reaction they are > > not > > > being > > > > specific as to > > > > dosage either. Unless they just mean to use > > the > > > product > > > > by its instructions > > > > on the bottle to boost carbon for plants. > > > Information so > > > > far has been "ify" > > > > at best. I don't want to hurt those Rams. > > > > > > > > Bill--where Rams Rule! > > > > > > > > --- On Mon, 9/21/09, Lenny V. aka GoldLenny > > <GoldLenny@... <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com>> > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@... > <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com>> > > > > > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Black Algae > > Problem > > > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > Date: Monday, September 21, 2009, 1:29 AM > > Bill, > > > > > > > > > > If I recall correctly, you do NOT have any > > live > > > > plants... > > > > > right? > > > > > > > > > > Here's a thread about using HP for algae > > issues, > > > > including suggested > > > > > dosages, etc. > > > > > > > > > > http://www.thekrib.com/Plants/Algae/hydrogen-peroxide.html > <http://www.thekrib.com/Plants/Algae/hydrogen-peroxide.html> > > > > > > > > > > And an article. > > > > > > > > > > > http://www.malawicichlidhomepage.com/aquainfo/algae_peroxide.html > <http://www.malawicichlidhomepage.com/aquainfo/algae_peroxide.html> > > > > > > > > > > The basic safe dose for fish and plants is 1 > > oz. > > > per > > > > 10G per day, with > > > > > PWC's between each treatment and do not dose > > the > > > tank > > > > close to the > > > > > intake to your filter(s). If you have > > > sensitive > > > > shrimp or snails and > > > > > someone mentioned oto's, then you might want > > to > > > halve > > > > that dosage. > > > > > > > > > > One other question, are you sure you have > > "black > > > > algae". Algae is > > > > > another thing in the aquarium hobby that > > suffers > > > from > > > > common name > > > > > abuse so look over these articles and I can > > give > > > you > > > > several other > > > > > sites about algae, if you don't have them > > > already, for > > > > even more > > > > > reading. > > > > > You'll see what I mean > > > > > about the common name problem. > > > > > > > > > > If your water testing is showing low levels > > of > > > > nitrates and other > > > > > nitrogenous compounds, then you might want > > to > > > check > > > > your phosphate > > > > > levels in your source water and tank. > > Also, > > > many > > > > fish foods are a BIG > > > > > source of phosphates so check them also and > > > maybe > > > > change over to a > > > > > lower phosphate level food. > > > > > > > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > > > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> <http://goldlenny.blogspot.com/ > <http://goldlenny.blogspot.com/>> (Links to > > > > any articles > > > > > referenced in above reply are listed on the > > > right > > > > side, alphabetically > > > > > under Labels and also under Archives by > > Year, > > > Month) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] > > > > > On > > > > > Behalf Of Steve Szabo > > > > > Sent: Sunday, September 20, 2009 10:50 PM > > > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Black Algae > > Problem > > > > > > > > > > Bill, > > > > > > > > > > Get some hydrogen peroxide (normally found > > in a > > > 3% > > > > > solution) and a syringe. > > > > > With the syringe, apply the hydrogen > > peroxide > > > directly > > > > to > > > > > the black algae. > > > > > This should kill the black algae without > > harming > > > any > > > > plants > > > > > or fish in the > > > > > process, since hydrogen peroxide will break > > down > > > > fairly > > > > > rapidly to the main > > > > > components, water and oxygen, > > > > > > > > > > \\Steve// > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] > > > > > On > > > > > Behalf Of bill 1433 > > > > > Sent: Sunday, September 20, 2009 11:23 PM > > > > > To: AquaticLife > > > > > Subject: [AquaticLife] Black Algae Problem > > > > > > > > > > I have started getting a black algae problem > > that > > > I > > > > am > > > > > trying to live with > > > > > but have not been able to conquer. The > > tanks > > > are a > > > > > standard 29-gallon Ram > > > > > tank and a 20-gallon long with Neon Tetras > > in > > > it. > > > > > > > > > > I may have posted this problem a few months > > ago > > > and > > > > have > > > > > been living with it > > > > > through cleaning and water changes but the > > > problem > > > > has > > > > > never really > > > > > completely cleared. Someone mentioned > > the use > > > of > > > > > Seachem's Excel to kill it > > > > > but I'm not sure of proper dosage or how > > long. > > > All > > > > water > > > > > tests are fine and > > > > > pH is 7.0 > > > > > > > > > > Bill > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > > > > > ------------------------------------ > > > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when > > replying, Thank You. > > ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> > > ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> > > PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is > > NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of > > the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new > > subject (was re: old subject)" <- > > <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. > > , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. > > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. > > > > If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of > > unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by > > clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the home page. > > > > Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:aquaticlife-digest%40yahoogroups.com> > > to receive the digest, which includes up to 25 posts at a > > time in a single email > > > > Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:aquaticlife-nomail%40yahoogroups.com> > > for the No E-Mail option where you will still be able to > > read messages on the group and post replies. > > > > Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:aquaticlife-normal%40yahoogroups.com> > > to receive individual e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > mailto:AquaticLife-fullfeatured@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife-fullfeatured%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 43518	From: Cee Jaye	Date: 9/21/2009
Subject: Tank upgrade

Well, in the meantime, I have come across a 40gal (I believe. . . How do I know for sure?) So I figure that he will enjoy the extra room for the time being (My Oscar) I will wash it out good (it was used as a tank & not a reptarium). I kept all the emails regarding how to change to a new tank, so I will follow them;) I will need to purchase a new filter soon, too, to add to his tank to go with his old one. That'll be good because then when the next tank comes along, I will have it hopefully:) LOL And maybe in the bigger tank, I will get the opportunity to get a better pic ) Thank you all for the help again! Tara [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 43519	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 9/21/2009
Subject: Re: Black Algae Problem

\\Steve//, CSS??? Well, I wasn't familiar with that acronym so I Googled and see something called Cascading Style Sheets. Is that what you meant with CSS? Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Steve Szabo Sent: Monday, September 21, 2009 3:45 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Black Algae Problem Ken seems to sell good food from the reports that I have received. I have never heard it be mentioned along with algae as a causative agent. I'd say that what you experienced, Gold One, is probably an artifact of the use of CSS. \\Steve// ________________________________ From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com on behalf of Lenny V. aka GoldLenny Sent: Mon 9/21/2009 2:24 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Black Algae Problem I do not know much about "Ken's up in Mass" so I Googled and found this, http://kensfish.com <http://kensfish.com/> , and this page on their Ken's Premium Flake Food, http://kensfish.com/kensflake1.html, does not list the phosphorous content (You might want to email them and ask about the phosphorous content) Well, that was weird.... I did a copy/paste of what I could "see" on the above page, which was the next four paragraphs but when I pasted it here, a LOT more info showed up on other products as well. I've never seen this happen before but I'll leave it anyhow. (START OF COPY/PASTE) KENS PREMIUM TROPICAL FISH FLAKE: EXTRA STABILIZED VITAMIN C AND FRESH FISH OIL UPGRADE THIS COMPLETE DIET. FOR FRESHWATER AND MARINE FISH. INGREDIENTS: FISH MEAL, BREWERS DRIED YEAST, SOY FLOUR. OAT FLOUR, CORN GLUTEN MEAL, SHRIMP MEAL, DRIED PLANKTON, DRIED SPIRULINA ALGAE, DRIED KELP, LECITHIN, VITAMIN SUPPLEMENTS A, D3, B12, BIOTIN, THIAMINE (SOURCE OF VITAMIN B1), NATURAL COLORING, ASCOROBIC ACID ( SOURCE OF VITAMIN C). GUARANTEED ANALYSIS: CRUDE PROTEIN 44.0% MIN., CRUDE FAT 9.0%MIN., CRUDE FIBER 1.2% MAX., MOISTURE 9.0% MAX. ALL NATURAL INGREDIENTS. NO PRESERVATIVES. (THIS WAS SUPPOSED TO BE THE END OF THE COPY/PASTE BUT SEE DOWN BELOW MY SIG FOR MORE INFO THAT SHOWED UP WITH THE PASTE, AND I STILL DO NOT KNOW WHY... MAYBE \\STEVE// HAS SEEN THIS BEFORE) Anyhow, as you can see, no mention of Phosphorous content. I'm not so sure it's as "premium" as it claims. The ingredients look very similar to the ingredients on many of the "cheap" fish foods. Other than the "Fish Meal" as the first ingredient, the next four are just fillers, IMO, before it returns to what looks like decent ingredients again, like the "Dried Plankton, Dried Spirulina Algae, Dried Kelp" and then it goes into the vitamins section. For comparison, here's the ingredients on my Omega One Goldfish Pellets (Medium): http://www.omegasea.net/medium_goldfish_pellets.html INGREDIENTS: Whole Salmon, Whole Herring, Whole Shrimp, Wheat Flour, Wheat Gluten, Fresh Kelp, Soy Flour, Astaxanthin, L-Ascorbyl-2-Phosphate (Source of Vitamin C), Natural and Artificial Colors, Vitamin A Acetate, Vitamin D3 Supplement, Vitamin E Supplement, Vitamin B12 Supplement, Riboflavin, Niacin, Pantothenic Acid, Folic Acid, Biotin, Inositol, Tocopherol (Preservative), Ethoxyquin (Preservative). Yes, http://www.OmegaSea.net <http://www.omegasea.net/> , makers of Omega One fish foods, does have the "Wheat Flour", "Wheat Gluten" and "Soy Flour" fillers but they are the 3rd and 4th and 6th ingredients, not the 2nd, 3rd, 4th and 5th ingredients. Further, "Fish Meal", the first ingredient in Ken's, is a nice way of saying ground up fish by-products, whereas the Omega One has "Whole Salmon, Whole Herring, Whole Shrimp" listed as the 1st, 2nd and 3rd ingredients. Now, all this said, I'm certainly NOT saying that Ken's is a bad product, as it's very similar to the Nutrafin Max Goldfish Flakes which has "Fish Meal, Corn Meal, Wheat Flour, Soy Flour, Oat Meal, Squid Meal, Fish Liver Meal...." as the primary ingredients in it and it is also listed as a "premium" food according to Hagen... but my preference is to get away from foods that consist of too many un-natural products like the flour based fillers that make up so many of the ingredients in our pet foods. After all, when I go to the store and buy Green Peas, even the el cheapo generic canned ones, I DO NOT want wheat gluten, soy flour or any other kinds of flour's listed in the ingredients... just "Green Peas" and maybe some water and probably salt and preservatives. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://goldlenny.blogspot.com/> (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) (HERE'S THE OTHER STUFF THAT COPY/PASTED FROM THE KEN'S PAGE WHEN I ONLY COPY/PASTED FOUR PARAGRAPHS... STILL NOT SURE WHY THE REST OF THIS SHOWED UP) KENS PREMIUM CHICKEN LIVER FLAKE: EXTRA STABILIZED VITAMIN C AND FRESH FISH OIL UPGRADE THIS COMPLETE DIET ALONG WITH THE MAIN INGREDIENT OF FRESH CHICKEN LIVER. THE HIGH PROTEIN MAKES THIS EXCELLENT FOR FRY AS WELL AS GUPPIES AND OTHER LIVE BEARERS. INGREDIENTS: CHICKEN LIVER, FISH MEAL, BREWERS DRIED YEAST, SOY FLOUR. OAT FLOUR, CORN GLUTEN MEAL, SHRIMP MEAL, DRIED PLANKTON, DRIED SPIRULINA ALGAE, DRIED KELP, LECITHIN, VITAMIN SUPPLEMENTS A, D3, B12, BIOTIN, THIAMINE (SOURCE OF VITAMIN B1), NATURAL COLORING, ASCOROBIC ACID ( SOURCE OF VITAMIN C). GUARANTEED ANALYSIS: CRUDE PROTEIN 48.0% MIN., CRUDE FAT 9.0%MIN., CRUDE FIBER 5.0% MAX., MOISTURE 9.0% MAX. ALL NATURAL INGREDIENTS, EXCEPT SOME ARTIFICIAL COLORING. NO PRESERVATIVES. FOR PHOTO: 1/2 LB $4.25 1 LB $8.00 5 LB $35.00 KENS PREMIUM MARINE FLAKE: THIS PREMIUM FLAKE IS EXCELLENT FOR MARINE FISH. GREAT AS USING FOR A STARTER FLAKE FOR YOUNG FRESHWATER FRY AS WELL. INGREDIENTS: WHITE FISH MEAL & WHITE FISH PROTEIN CONCENTRATE. OAT, WHEAT, SOYBEEN MEAL FLOURS, SHRIMP, PLANKTON & KRILL MEAL, FISH OIL, LECITHIN, VITAMIN MINERAL SUPPLEMENT, SPIRULINA, FROZEN BRINE SHRIMP, KELP MEAL, METHIONINE.ASCORBIC ACID (SOURCE OF VITAMIN C).NATURAL AND SOME ARTIFICIAL COLORING. GUARANTEED ANALYSIS: CRUDE PROTEIN 46.0% MIN., CRUDE FAT 5.0% MIN., CRUDE FIBER 3.0% MAX., MOISTURE 8.0% MAX., ALL NATURAL INGREDIENTS, EXCEPT FOR SOME ARTIFICIAL COLORING. NO PRESERVATIVES. 1/2 LB $4.25 1 LB $7.95 5 LB $37.75 FOR PHOTO: KENS PREMIUM SPIRULINA + FLAKE WITH GARLIC & PAPRIKA: THIS IS REMARKABLE FORTIFIED FOOD THAT WILL KEEP YOUR TROPHEUS AND OTHER FISH IN TOP FORM.THIS CONTAINS A HIGH AMOUNT OF SPIRULINA AND THE ADDED INGREDIENT OF GARLIC & PAPRIKA! INGREDIENTS: FISH MEAL, DRIED BREWERS YEAST, SOY FLOUR, WHEAT FLOUR, OAT FLOUR, CORN GLUTEN MEAL, DRIED SPIRULINA ALGEA, GARLIC, SHRIMP MEAL, DRIED KRILL, FISH OIL, PAPRIKA, LECITHIN, VITAMIN SUPPLEMENTS A, D3, B12, BIOTIN, NATURAL COLORING, ASCORBIC ACID (SOURCE OF VITAMIN C). GUARANTEED ANALYSIS: CRUDE PROTEIN 45.0% MIN., CRUDE FAT 4.0% MAX., CRUDE FIBER 3.2% MAX., MOISTURE 8.0% MAX. ALL NATURAL INGREDIENTS, EXCEPT FOR SOME ARTIFICIAL COLORING. NO PRESERVATIVES. 1/2 LB $4.95 1 LB $9.75 5 LB $47.75 FOR PHOTO: KENS PREMIUM SUPER BRINE SHRIMP FLAKE: THIS IS EXCELLENT FOR GROWTH DUE TO THE HIGH AMOUNTS OF CRUDE PROTEIN. EXCELLENT DIGESTABILITY AND HIGH AMOUNTS BRINE SHRIMP MAKE UP THIS HIGH GRADE FORMULA. INGREDIENTS: FISH MEAL, SHRIMP MEAL, SOY FLOUR, SOY PROTEIN ISOLATE, FISH PROTEIN CONCENTRATE, BREWERS DRIED YEAST, CORN STARCH, SOY LECITHIN, DRIED BRINE SHRIMP, SODIUM ALGINATE, FISH OIL, MENADIONE DIMETHYIPYRIMIDINOL BISULFATE (SOURCE OF VITAMIN K), D1-ALPHA TOCOPHERYL ACETATE, INOSITOL, PARAMINO BENZOIC ACID, NIACIN, CALCIUM PANTOTHENATE, RIBOFLAVIN, BIOTIN, PYRIDOXINE HYDROCHLORIDE, THIAMINE MONONITRATE, VITAMIN A ACETATE, VITAMIN B12, VITAMIN D3 SUPPLEMENT, SQUIS MEAL, EMULSIFIER, CHOLINE CHLORIDE, MANGANESE PROTEINATE, ZINC PROTEINATE, COPPER PROTEINATE, CALCIUM IODATE, IRON PEOTEINATE, COBALT PROTEINATE, CALCIUM CARBONATE, SODIUM SELENITE, L-ASCORBYL-2POLYPHOSPHATE (SOURCE OF VITAMIN C). GUARANTEED ANALYSIS: CRUDE PROTEIN 50.0% MIN., CRUDE FAT 12.0% MAX., CRUDE FIBER 3.0% MAX., MOISTURE 10.0% MAX. SOME ARTIFICIAL COLORING AND PRESERVATIVES. FOR PHOTO: 1/2 LB $4.75 1 LB $9.25 5 LB $44.25 KENS PREMIUM COLOR FLAKE WITH NATUROSE ADDED: GREAT FOR ADDING COLOR! NATURE'S OWN COLORING FOOD! BRINGS OUT THE RADIENT NATURAL COLORS OF YOUR BEST FRESHWATER AND SALTWATER FISH! NOW WITH THE ADDED INGREDIENT OF NATUROSE FOR ADDED COLOR ENHANCEMENT. INGREDIENTS: FISH MEAL BLEND, SPECIAL MIX: DRIED PLANKTON, SHRIMP, KRILL AND DRIED SPIRULINA ALGEA, WHEAT GLUTEN MEAL, OAT FLOUR, BREWERS DRIED YEAST, CAROTENE, NATUROSE, LECITHIN, SOY OIL, FISH OIL, VITAMIN SUPPLEMENTS, A, D3, B12, BIOTIN, NATURAL & ARTIFICIAL COLORING, ASCORBIC ACID (SOURCE OF VITAMIN C). GUARANTEED ANALYSIS: CRUDE PROTEIN 44.0% MIN., CRUDE FAT 12.0% MIN., CRUDE FIBER 8.0% MAX., MOISTURE 8.0% MAX. ALL NATURAL INGREDIENTS. NO PRESERVATIVES. FOR PHOTO: 1/2 LB $4.50 1 LB $8.75 5 LB $42.00 KENS PREMIUM BEEFHEART FLAKE: EXCELLENT DIET FOR ANGELS AND DISCUS. MADE WITH REAL BEEFHEARTS TO HELP BRING YOUR FISH INTO FULL SPAWNING CONDITION. ALSO EXCELLENT FOR OTHER TROPICAL FISH. Main Ingredients: Fish Meal, Wheat Flour, Soy Flour, Shrimp Meal, Brewers Dried Yeast, Krill Meal, Fish Oil, Soy Lecithin, Spirulina, Emulsifier, Beefhearts, Choline Chloride, Sorbitol, Propylene Glycol, Artificial Color, Vitamin A, Vitamin D3 Supplement, d1-Alpha Tocopheryl Acetate (Vitamin E Supplement), Vitamin B12 Supplement, Riboflavin, Niacin, Calcium Pantothenate, Menadione Sodium Bisulfite Complex (source of vitamin K Activity), Folic Acid, Thiamine Mononitrate, Pyridoxine Hydrochloride, Biotin, Manganese Proteinate, Zinc Proteinate, Copper Proteinate, Calcium Iodate, Iron Proteinate, Cobolt Proteinate, Calcium Carbonate, Sodium Selenite, Anise Oil, L-Ascorbyl-2-Polyphosphate (source or Vitamin C), Xanthophyll, Canthaxanthin, Ethoxyquin, TBHQ (preservative). Guaranteed Analysis: Crude Protein 46.0% Min., Crude Fat 10.0% Min., Crude Fiber 3.0% Max., Moisture 10.0% Max. FOR PHOTO: 1/2 LB $4.50 1 LB $8.75 5 LB $42.00 KENS PREMIUM SUPER TROPICAL FLAKE: This is a higher protein general flake diet for all your tropical fish. This tropical fish flake contains spirulina, krill, Shrimp meal to aid in coloration. Also contains highly digestible marine proteins to reduce excreted waste. Ingredients: Fish Meal, Wheat Flour, Soy Flour, Shrimp Meal, Brewers Dried Yeast, Krill Meal, Soy Lecithin, Fish Oil, Emulsifier, Choline Chloride, Sorbitol, Propylene Glycol, Artificial Color, Spirulina, Yeast Extract, Calcium Phosphate, Anise Oil, Xanthophyll Pigments, L-Ascorbyl-2- Polyphosphate (source of Vitamin C), Canthaxanthin, Manganese Proteinate, Zinc Proteinate, Copper Proteinate, Calcium Iodate, Iron Proteinate, Cobalt Proteinate, Calcium Carbonate, Sodium Selenite, Vitamin A Acetate, Vitamin D3 Supplement, dl-Alpha Tocopheryl Acetate (Vitamin E Supplement), Vitamin B12 Supplement, Riboflavin Supplement, Niacin, Calcium Pantothenate, Menadione Sodium Bisulfite Complex (source of Vitamin K Activity), Folic Acid, Thiamine Mononitrate, Pyridoxine Hydrochloride, Biotin, Ethoxyquin, TBHQ (preservative). Guaranteed Analysis: Min. Protein 45.0%, Min. Crude Fat 9.0%, Max Crude Fiber 3.0%, Max Moisture 10.0%, FOR PHOTO: 1/2 LB $4.00 1 LB $7.15 5 LB $33.75 KENS PREMIUM HATCHERY FLAKE: EXTRA STABILIZED VITAMIN C AND FRESH FISH OIL UPGRADE THIS COMPLETE DIET. FOR FRESHWATER AND MARINE FISH. INGREDIENTS: FISH MEAL, BREWERS DRIED YEAST, SOY FLOUR. OAT FLOUR, CORN GLUTEN MEAL, SHRIMP MEAL, DRIED PLANKTON, DRIED SPIRULINA ALGAE, DRIED KELP, LECITHIN, VITAMIN SUPPLEMENTS A, D3, B12, BIOTIN, THIAMINE (SOURCE OF VITAMIN B1), NATURAL COLORING, ASCOROBIC ACID ( SOURCE OF VITAMIN C). GUARANTEED ANALYSIS: CRUDE PROTEIN 44.0% MIN., CRUDE FAT 9.0%MIN., CRUDE FIBER 1.2% MAX., MOISTURE 9.0% MAX. ALL NATURAL INGREDIENTS. NO PRESERVATIVES. FOR PHOTO: 1/2 LB $3.50 1 LB $6.25 5 LB $29.75 -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of bill 1433 Sent: Monday, September 21, 2009 12:44 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Black Algae Problem Check on the algae eater but far as I know, none eat the black stuff. Your right, i've got to figure out the "Y" part. Lights on 10 to 12 but they are standard tubes, 17watts each for the 20 and 29. Food? Very high protein stuff from Ken's up in Mass. Fish love it. Bill --- On Mon, 9/21/09, Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@...> wrote: > From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@...> > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Black Algae Problem > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Date: Monday, September 21, 2009, 1:28 PM I guess the SeaChem Flourish > Excel might be your preferred choice... BUT... > remember that if you do not figure out the cause and fix the cause, it > will simply return, so you still have to figure out the cause. > > Presuming you are keeping any cycling issues in check and thus keeping > nitrates at a low enough level, below 20ppm, then I would highly > suspect either too much lighting (how long do you leave them on each > day and how much lighting do you have?) or direct sunlight or other > nutrients (mainly > phosphates) that you may be getting from your well water or from many > foods that list phosphorous percentages (I've seen many that have MUCH > higher levels than others). > > I'm looking at three of my store bought foods right now. Omega One > Medium Goldfish Pellets lists "Min. Phosphorous (0.5%)". I'm not sure > why it's in brackets ( ), as the other analysis levels are not in > brackets... could this mean negative???, I have to check with Omega > One. My Hikari Algae Wafers has "Guaranteed Analysis" as "Phosphorous > min 0.7%" but then in a separate section called "Typical Analysis", it > has "Phosphorous 1.4%". My Hagen Nutrafin Max Goldfish Flake Food has > "Phosphorous min 0.5%, max 0.9%". > > I've seen other foods where they "advertise" on the package of having > less than 3% phosphorous or something like that, which means they are > simply taking advantage of the uninformed as those levels of > phosphorous are 3X to 6X the levels of the three foods I just listed > and even the Hikari Algae Wafers has nearly 2X to 3X more than the > other two. > > As usual with store bought foods, check the ingredients. > > Last but not least, if you have bioload room in the tanks and cannot > figure out the cause of the algae, you might want to consider a small > algae eater. > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://goldlenny.blogspot.com/> (Links to any articles > referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically > under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) > > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] > On > Behalf Of bill 1433 > Sent: Monday, September 21, 2009 11:48 AM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Black Algae Problem > > Len, > > I understand what your trying to say and thanks for the > help but the problem > is the stuff is everywhere. Not real heavy and can > usually just be wiped > off with the clean cloth, the problems come in at the > "where" part. > > For instance pieces of gravel, not all mind you just some, > you know, so > you'll notice it! > > What I need is a way to dose the whole tank at once without > having to worry > about checking for survivors when I'm done. The hp > seems to infer direct > contact. Working with a syringe it would probably > take me to Christmas to > get the whole tank done by this method, which is why I'm > looking at Seachem. > Now if there was some way of using the HP in this method it > would be great > but most articles seem to infer this direct contact > approach. > > Thanks, Bill > > > > --- On Mon, 9/21/09, Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@...> > wrote: > > > From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@...> > > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Black Algae Problem > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > Date: Monday, September 21, 2009, 12:21 PM I know > TheKrib's thread is > > from late 1990's - early 2000's but IT is some of the > best info out > > there on the net. EVERY forum thread that I've ever > seen in any other > > forum still refers to TheKrib's thread as THE guide > for using Hydrogen > > Peroxide. I know the dosages are or can be confusing > in that thread > > as that was raw data compiled by posting around 20 > experienced replies > > to make that page, which is why I included the one > paragraph about > > what the safe dosage was, as I know it from reading > many other forum > > threads over the years and using it myself in the > past. > > > > 1 oz. per 10G has been used on tanks with fry but if > you are more > > concerned, halve that dosage. Do the dosing during > the day so the > > lights stay on for a while after the dose as light > helps to break down > > the HP faster. Since you are using a syringe (minus > needle) to apply > > the HP, it's the direct contact of the HP on the algae > that does the > > job and then the HP breaks down into water and > oxygen. Do a PWC the > > next day (or even be prepared to do a PWC after dosing > if your fish > > are showing any signs of distress but the 1 oz. > > per 10G should be OK. 1 oz. equals around 30ml > (actually 29.57ml if > > you have a highly calibrated syringe... lol). > > > > In TheKrib's page, there were people who experimented > with using as > > much as 60ml per 10G (2 oz. per 10G) which was found > to cause issues > > for sensitive snails and ghost shrimp and some fish. > Others would > > dose with their filters off, worried about the HP > causing harm to the > > filters, but that could also cause problems as it did > not > > disperse/dilute the HP fast enough in the water > column. Just leave > > your filters running BUT do not squirt the HP close > enough to a filter > > intake. If you need to dose near the filter, unplug > it for a moment, > > do the dose, use something to stir up the water in > that area, then > > turn the filter back on. Leave the lights on for > several hours after > > using HP. Do the PWC the next day and dose again as > needed. > > > > > > > > As far as the Excel, which is an EXPENSIVE alternative > treatment, here > > are a couple of forum threads on the topic, with some > users using up > > to 5X the proper dose of Excel, every 3 days. > > > > > http://www.aquaticplantcentral.com/forumapc/algae/3806-flourish-excel-got-ri > d-all-my.html (25 page thread) > > > > SeaChem's official reply. > > http://www.seachem.com/support/forums/showthread.php?t=682 > > > > The top FAQ on this page is another of SeaChem's > official replies. > > http://www.seachem.com/support/FAQs/FlourishExcel.html > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://goldlenny.blogspot.com/> (Links to > any articles > > referenced in above reply are listed on the right > side, alphabetically > > under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) > > > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] > > On > > Behalf Of bill 1433 > > Sent: Monday, September 21, 2009 8:40 AM > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Black Algae Problem > > > > Hi Len, > > > > \\Steve// also suggested this BUT, even with the links > you > > sent (some dated) > > it appears that there is great controversy over > dosage. > > > > The fish in the tank are 9 rams at 5 months old and 3 > Cory > > cats. Those Rams > > were a long time coming and I really don't want > anything to > > happen to them. > > > > On the other hand, some for other groups mention the > use of > > SeaChem's Excel > > but again, nobody seems to have an dosage level for > > positive results. > > Looking at their web-site they do mention this on > their > > support page but > > since this is a by-pass type of reaction they are not > being > > specific as to > > dosage either. Unless they just mean to use the > product > > by its instructions > > on the bottle to boost carbon for plants. > Information so > > far has been "ify" > > at best. I don't want to hurt those Rams. > > > > Bill--where Rams Rule! > > > > --- On Mon, 9/21/09, Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@...> > > wrote: > > > > > From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@...> > > > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Black Algae Problem > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > > Date: Monday, September 21, 2009, 1:29 AM Bill, > > > > > > If I recall correctly, you do NOT have any live > > plants... > > > right? > > > > > > Here's a thread about using HP for algae issues, > > including suggested > > > dosages, etc. > > > > > > http://www.thekrib.com/Plants/Algae/hydrogen-peroxide.html > > > > > > And an article. > > > > > > http://www.malawicichlidhomepage.com/aquainfo/algae_peroxide.html > > > > > > The basic safe dose for fish and plants is 1 oz. > per > > 10G per day, with > > > PWC's between each treatment and do not dose the > tank > > close to the > > > intake to your filter(s). If you have > sensitive > > shrimp or snails and > > > someone mentioned oto's, then you might want to > halve > > that dosage. > > > > > > One other question, are you sure you have "black > > algae". Algae is > > > another thing in the aquarium hobby that suffers > from > > common name > > > abuse so look over these articles and I can give > you > > several other > > > sites about algae, if you don't have them > already, for > > even more > > > reading. > > > You'll see what I mean > > > about the common name problem. > > > > > > If your water testing is showing low levels of > > nitrates and other > > > nitrogenous compounds, then you might want to > check > > your phosphate > > > levels in your source water and tank. Also, > many > > fish foods are a BIG > > > source of phosphates so check them also and > maybe > > change over to a > > > lower phosphate level food. > > > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://goldlenny.blogspot.com/> (Links to > > any articles > > > referenced in above reply are listed on the > right > > side, alphabetically > > > under Labels and also under Archives by Year, > Month) > > > > > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] > > > On > > > Behalf Of Steve Szabo > > > Sent: Sunday, September 20, 2009 10:50 PM > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Black Algae Problem > > > > > > Bill, > > > > > > Get some hydrogen peroxide (normally found in a > 3% > > > solution) and a syringe. > > > With the syringe, apply the hydrogen peroxide > directly > > to > > > the black algae. > > > This should kill the black algae without harming > any > > plants > > > or fish in the > > > process, since hydrogen peroxide will break down > > fairly > > > rapidly to the main > > > components, water and oxygen, > > > > > > \\Steve// > > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] > > > On > > > Behalf Of bill 1433 > > > Sent: Sunday, September 20, 2009 11:23 PM > > > To: AquaticLife > > > Subject: [AquaticLife] Black Algae Problem > > > > > > I have started getting a black algae problem that > I > > am > > > trying to live with > > > but have not been able to conquer. The tanks > are a > > > standard 29-gallon Ram > > > tank and a 20-gallon long with Neon Tetras in > it. > > > > > > I may have posted this problem a few months ago > and > > have > > > been living with it > > > through cleaning and water changes but the > problem > > has > > > never really > > > completely cleared. Someone mentioned the use > of > > > Seachem's Excel to kill it > > > but I'm not sure of proper dosage or how long. > All > > water > > > tests are fine and > > > pH is 7.0 > > > > > > Bill

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 43520	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 9/21/2009
Subject: Re: Black Algae Problem

Bill, Did you use a particular website in determining the common name of your algae? I often see names like Black Algae, Black Brush Algae, etc., thrown around and without pictures, it's tough to know what a particular site or fish keeper may be talking about. Here's that MalawiCichlid page about Hydrogen Peroxide and the top few pictures show "Black Algae". Is this what you have? http://www.malawicichlidhomepage.com/aquainfo/algae_peroxide.html Other sites describe "Black Algae" as sheets of dark green to blackish looking slimy algae when they are probably talking about BGA - Blue Green Algae - Cyanobacteria. http://badmanstropicalfish.com/mb/mb16.html AmericanAquariumProducts, a reliable site, has this picture of Black Beard Algae. http://www.americanaquariumproducts.com/images/graphics/bbalgae2.jpg Anyhow, let us know what you have so we can be sure we're all on the same page... so to speak. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Amber Berglund Sent: Tuesday, September 22, 2009 5:16 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Black Algae Problem I have been told word of mouth that Platy's and Guppy's will nibble on the black beard algae, but only if you practically starve them ;) LOL. So basically it's pointless to try getting a fish that eats the algae as they will always prefer the food you feed them over the algae growing in the tank ;) I have seen my guppy's and platy's nibble on it, but not all the time, usually when they're foraging for food they will "taste test" the algae too. Amber bill 1433 wrote: > > > Check on the algae eater but far as I know, none eat the black stuff. > Your right, i've got to figure out the "Y" part. Lights on 10 to 12 > but they are standard tubes, 17watts each for the 20 and 29. > > Food? Very high protein stuff from Ken's up in Mass. > Fish love it. > > Bill > > --- On Mon, 9/21/09, Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@... > <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com>> wrote: > > > From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@... > <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com>> > > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Black Algae Problem > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > Date: Monday, September 21, 2009, 1:28 PM I guess the SeaChem > > Flourish Excel might be your preferred choice... BUT... > > remember that if you do not figure out the cause and fix the cause, > > it will simply return, so you still have to figure out the cause. > > > > Presuming you are keeping any cycling issues in check and thus > > keeping nitrates at a low enough level, below 20ppm, then I would > > highly suspect either too much lighting (how long do you leave them > > on each day and how much lighting do you have?) or direct sunlight > > or other nutrients (mainly > > phosphates) that you may be getting from your well water or from > > many foods that list phosphorous percentages (I've seen many that > > have MUCH higher levels than others). > > > > I'm looking at three of my store bought foods right now. Omega One > > Medium Goldfish Pellets lists "Min. Phosphorous (0.5%)". I'm not > > sure why it's in brackets ( ), as the other analysis levels are not > > in brackets... could this mean negative???, I have to check with > > Omega One. My Hikari Algae Wafers has "Guaranteed Analysis" as > > "Phosphorous min 0.7%" but then in a separate section called > > "Typical Analysis", it has "Phosphorous 1.4%". My Hagen Nutrafin > > Max Goldfish Flake Food has "Phosphorous min 0.5%, max 0.9%". > > > > I've seen other foods where they "advertise" on the package of > > having less than 3% phosphorous or something like that, which means > > they are simply taking advantage of the uninformed as those levels > > of phosphorous are 3X to 6X the levels of the three foods I just > > listed and even the Hikari Algae Wafers has nearly 2X to 3X more > > than the other two. > > > > As usual with store bought foods, check the ingredients. > > > > Last but not least, if you have bioload room in the tanks and cannot > > figure out the cause of the algae, you might want to consider a > > small algae eater. > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the > > right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by > > Year, Month) > > > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] > > On > > Behalf Of bill 1433 > > Sent: Monday, September 21, 2009 11:48 AM > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Black Algae Problem > > > > Len, > > > > I understand what your trying to say and thanks for the help but the > > problem is the stuff is everywhere. Not real heavy and can usually > > just be wiped off with the clean cloth, the problems come in at the > > "where" part. > > > > For instance pieces of gravel, not all mind you just some, you know, > > so you'll notice it! > > > > What I need is a way to dose the whole tank at once without having > > to worry about checking for survivors when I'm done. The hp seems > > to infer direct contact. Working with a syringe it would probably > > take me to Christmas to get the whole tank done by this method, > > which is why I'm looking at Seachem. > > Now if there was some way of using the HP in this method it would be > > great but most articles seem to infer this direct contact approach. > > > > Thanks, Bill > > > > > > > > --- On Mon, 9/21/09, Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@... > <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com>> > > wrote: > > > > > From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@... > <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com>> > > > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Black Algae Problem > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > Date: Monday, September 21, 2009, 12:21 PM I know > > TheKrib's thread is > > > from late 1990's - early 2000's but IT is some of the > > best info out > > > there on the net. EVERY forum thread that I've ever > > seen in any other > > > forum still refers to TheKrib's thread as THE guide > > for using Hydrogen > > > Peroxide. I know the dosages are or can be confusing > > in that thread > > > as that was raw data compiled by posting around 20 > > experienced replies > > > to make that page, which is why I included the one > > paragraph about > > > what the safe dosage was, as I know it from reading > > many other forum > > > threads over the years and using it myself in the > > past. > > > > > > 1 oz. per 10G has been used on tanks with fry but if > > you are more > > > concerned, halve that dosage. Do the dosing during > > the day so the > > > lights stay on for a while after the dose as light > > helps to break down > > > the HP faster. Since you are using a syringe (minus > > needle) to apply > > > the HP, it's the direct contact of the HP on the algae > > that does the > > > job and then the HP breaks down into water and > > oxygen. Do a PWC the > > > next day (or even be prepared to do a PWC after dosing > > if your fish > > > are showing any signs of distress but the 1 oz. > > > per 10G should be OK. 1 oz. equals around 30ml > > (actually 29.57ml if > > > you have a highly calibrated syringe... lol). > > > > > > In TheKrib's page, there were people who experimented > > with using as > > > much as 60ml per 10G (2 oz. per 10G) which was found > > to cause issues > > > for sensitive snails and ghost shrimp and some fish. > > Others would > > > dose with their filters off, worried about the HP > > causing harm to the > > > filters, but that could also cause problems as it did > > not > > > disperse/dilute the HP fast enough in the water > > column. Just leave > > > your filters running BUT do not squirt the HP close > > enough to a filter > > > intake. If you need to dose near the filter, unplug > > it for a moment, > > > do the dose, use something to stir up the water in > > that area, then > > > turn the filter back on. Leave the lights on for > > several hours after > > > using HP. Do the PWC the next day and dose again as > > needed. > > > > > > > > > > > > As far as the Excel, which is an EXPENSIVE alternative > > treatment, here > > > are a couple of forum threads on the topic, with some > > users using up > > > to 5X the proper dose of Excel, every 3 days. > > > > > > > > > http://www.aquaticplantcentral.com/forumapc/algae/3806-flourish-excel- > got-ri > <http://www.aquaticplantcentral.com/forumapc/algae/3806-flourish-excel > -got-ri> > > d-all-my.html (25 page thread) > > > > > > SeaChem's official reply. > > > http://www.seachem.com/support/forums/showthread.php?t=682 > <http://www.seachem.com/support/forums/showthread.php?t=682> > > > > > > The top FAQ on this page is another of SeaChem's > > official replies. > > > http://www.seachem.com/support/FAQs/FlourishExcel.html > <http://www.seachem.com/support/FAQs/FlourishExcel.html> > > > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> (Links to > > any articles > > > referenced in above reply are listed on the right > > side, alphabetically > > > under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] > > > On > > > Behalf Of bill 1433 > > > Sent: Monday, September 21, 2009 8:40 AM > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Black Algae Problem > > > > > > Hi Len, > > > > > > \\Steve// also suggested this BUT, even with the links > > you > > > sent (some dated) > > > it appears that there is great controversy over > > dosage. > > > > > > The fish in the tank are 9 rams at 5 months old and 3 > > Cory > > > cats. Those Rams > > > were a long time coming and I really don't want > > anything to > > > happen to them. > > > > > > On the other hand, some for other groups mention the > > use of > > > SeaChem's Excel > > > but again, nobody seems to have an dosage level for positive > > > results. > > > Looking at their web-site they do mention this on > > their > > > support page but > > > since this is a by-pass type of reaction they are not > > being > > > specific as to > > > dosage either. Unless they just mean to use the > > product > > > by its instructions > > > on the bottle to boost carbon for plants. > > Information so > > > far has been "ify" > > > at best. I don't want to hurt those Rams. > > > > > > Bill--where Rams Rule! > > > > > > --- On Mon, 9/21/09, Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@... > <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com>> > > > wrote: > > > > > > > From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@... > <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com>> > > > > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Black Algae Problem > > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > Date: Monday, September 21, 2009, 1:29 AM Bill, > > > > > > > > If I recall correctly, you do NOT have any live > > > plants... > > > > right? > > > > > > > > Here's a thread about using HP for algae issues, > > > including suggested > > > > dosages, etc. > > > > > > > > http://www.thekrib.com/Plants/Algae/hydrogen-peroxide.html > <http://www.thekrib.com/Plants/Algae/hydrogen-peroxide.html> > > > > > > > > And an article. > > > > > > > > > http://www.malawicichlidhomepage.com/aquainfo/algae_peroxide.html > <http://www.malawicichlidhomepage.com/aquainfo/algae_peroxide.html> > > > > > > > > The basic safe dose for fish and plants is 1 oz. > > per > > > 10G per day, with > > > > PWC's between each treatment and do not dose the > > tank > > > close to the > > > > intake to your filter(s). If you have > > sensitive > > > shrimp or snails and > > > > someone mentioned oto's, then you might want to > > halve > > > that dosage. > > > > > > > > One other question, are you sure you have "black > > > algae". Algae is > > > > another thing in the aquarium hobby that suffers > > from > > > common name > > > > abuse so look over these articles and I can give > > you > > > several other > > > > sites about algae, if you don't have them > > already, for > > > even more > > > > reading. > > > > You'll see what I mean > > > > about the common name problem. > > > > > > > > If your water testing is showing low levels of > > > nitrates and other > > > > nitrogenous compounds, then you might want to > > check > > > your phosphate > > > > levels in your source water and tank. Also, > > many > > > fish foods are a BIG > > > > source of phosphates so check them also and > > maybe > > > change over to a > > > > lower phosphate level food. > > > > > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> (Links to > > > any articles > > > > referenced in above reply are listed on the > > right > > > side, alphabetically > > > > under Labels and also under Archives by Year, > > Month) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] > > > > On > > > > Behalf Of Steve Szabo > > > > Sent: Sunday, September 20, 2009 10:50 PM > > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Black Algae Problem > > > > > > > > Bill, > > > > > > > > Get some hydrogen peroxide (normally found in a > > 3% > > > > solution) and a syringe. > > > > With the syringe, apply the hydrogen peroxide > > directly > > > to > > > > the black algae. > > > > This should kill the black algae without harming > > any > > > plants > > > > or fish in the > > > > process, since hydrogen peroxide will break down > > > fairly > > > > rapidly to the main > > > > components, water and oxygen, > > > > > > > > \\Steve// > > > > > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] > > > > On > > > > Behalf Of bill 1433 > > > > Sent: Sunday, September 20, 2009 11:23 PM > > > > To: AquaticLife > > > > Subject: [AquaticLife] Black Algae Problem > > > > > > > > I have started getting a black algae problem that > > I > > > am > > > > trying to live with > > > > but have not been able to conquer. The tanks > > are a > > > > standard 29-gallon Ram > > > > tank and a 20-gallon long with Neon Tetras in > > it. > > > > > > > > I may have posted this problem a few months ago > > and > > > have > > > > been living with it > > > > through cleaning and water changes but the > > problem > > > has > > > > never really > > > > completely cleared. Someone mentioned the use > > of > > > > Seachem's Excel to kill it > > > > but I'm not sure of proper dosage or how long. > > All > > > water > > > > tests are fine and > > > > pH is 7.0 > > > > > > > > Bill > > > > > > > > ------------------------------------ > > > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, > > Thank You. > > ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> > > ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> > > PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT > > important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original > > message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old > > subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. > > , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. > > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. > > > > If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of > > unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by clicking on > > "Edit My Membership" on the home page. > > > > Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:aquaticlife-digest%40yahoogroups.com> > > to receive the digest, which includes up to 25 posts at a time in a > > single email > > > > Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:aquaticlife-nomail%40yahoogroups.com> > > for the No E-Mail option where you will still be able to read > > messages on the group and post replies. > > > > Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:aquaticlife-normal%40yahoogroups.com> > > to receive individual e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > mailto:AquaticLife-fullfeatured@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife-fullfeatured%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > > ------------------------------------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the home page. Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com to receive the digest, which includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com for the No E-Mail option where you will still be able to read messages on the group and post replies. Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com to receive individual e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 43521	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 9/21/2009
Subject: Re: Baby mystery snails and question about duckweed.

Usually, increased surface agitation will dissuade duckweed from reproducing. Change the outflow of your filter(s) to move the water surface around a lot and it will die off. Option 2... borrow a friend's goldfish. They love the stuff. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Amber Berglund Sent: Tuesday, September 22, 2009 5:38 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Baby mystery snails and question about duckweed. So my baby mystery snails are doing great, starting to show some color (purple so far). Also Pam the ones I got from you are busy little guys, they've laid eggs 4 times the last 3 weeks! My 125 gallon is going to be swarming in mystery snails soon. So far my dark purple ones have not laid eggs, the eggs that were laid were from one of the magenta ones, either Pam's or the ones I got from the aquabid seller. The babies look more like Pam's purple ones though. Perhaps my dark purple ones just aren't ready, I know there's enough in there to have at least one pair off ;) LOL. Maybe the next batch will be dark purple ones ;) The ones in the 125 gallon are growing faster, that tank is usually a couple degrees warmer than the ones upstairs as I keep the upstairs windows open for a bit of air in the house, it gets too stuffy if I don't. Most of my older snails in the 55 gallon upstairs are "napping", they have been for a couple of weeks, off and on. Perhaps they think it's their hibernation time? Not sure, either way they're still alive and they wake up for food every now and then. I'm struggling with the duckweed in that tank as well, perhaps they don't like the duckweed? Other than removing all traces of duckweed so that it can't reproduce is there a faster way to get rid of it somehow? LOL. Darn stuff is going to take over my home, when I get done cleaning the fish tank I have duckweed everywhere ;) Hubby calls me "swamp thing" LOL. Amber

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 43522	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 9/21/2009
Subject: Re: Tank upgrade

Measure the inside dimensions, in inches, and multiply the height by the width by the length and divide by 231. That will give you the number of gallons the tank will hold without any fixtures or substrate. \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Cee Jaye Sent: Monday, September 21, 2009 7:24 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Tank upgrade Well, in the meantime, I have come across a 40gal (I believe. . . How do I know for sure?) So I figure that he will enjoy the extra room for the time being (My Oscar) I will wash it out good (it was used as a tank & not a reptarium). I kept all the emails regarding how to change to a new tank, so I will follow them;) I will need to purchase a new filter soon, too, to add to his tank to go with his old one. That'll be good because then when the next tank comes along, I will have it hopefully:) LOL And maybe in the bigger tank, I will get the opportunity to get a better pic ) Thank you all for the help again! Tara

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 43523	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 9/21/2009
Subject: Re: Black Algae Problem

I think \\Steve// was talking to me, thus the "Gold One" reference, which I'm guessing is a play on GoldLenny. LOL I think the CSS was about how my copy/paste of only four paragraphs from a web page resulted in about a hundred paragraphs showing up when I pasted the four paragraphs into my email. I found CSS stands for Cascading Style Sheets, a website design style. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Amber Berglund Sent: Tuesday, September 22, 2009 5:48 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Black Algae Problem That was my thought too Bill, but I thought you might get it, since Steve was talking to you ;) LOL. I'm guessing it's a joke of some sort, knowing Steve ;) hehe. If it makes you feel better Bill my 125 gallon tank has a ton of black beard algae, and it's like glue when it grows on something, I have to scrape it off with a fingernail to get it to come off, and it takes several tries. Not sure if you have the same type of algae or not. Does it look like a fuzzy black carpet and it's really hard to remove from ornaments? I tend to suck it up with the gravel vac if it's stuck to bits of gravel ;) (not the python as it doesn't make it all the way upstairs, yes I know odd arrangement for the python but my lower faucet doesn't have enough water pressure to run the python it doesn't create a suction at all). Amber bill 1433 wrote: > > > CSS? > > Bill > > --- On Mon, 9/21/09, Steve Szabo <steve@... > <mailto:steve%40familyszabo.com>> wrote: > > > From: Steve Szabo <steve@... > <mailto:steve%40familyszabo.com>> > > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Black Algae Problem > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > Date: Monday, September 21, 2009, 4:44 PM Ken seems to sell good > > food from the reports that I have received. I have never heard it be > > mentioned along with algae as a causative agent. > > > > I'd say that what you experienced, Gold One, is probably an artifact > > of the use of CSS. > > > > \\Steve// > > > > ________________________________ > > > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > on behalf of Lenny V. aka GoldLenny > > Sent: Mon 9/21/2009 2:24 PM > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Black Algae Problem > > > > > > > > I do not know much about "Ken's up in Mass" so I Googled and found > > this, http://kensfish.com <http://kensfish.com> > > <http://kensfish.com/ > <http://kensfish.com/>> , and this page > > on their Ken's Premium Flake Food, > > http://kensfish.com/kensflake1.html, > <http://kensfish.com/kensflake1.html,> does not list the > > phosphorous content > > (You might want to email them and ask about the phosphorous > > content) > > > > Well, that was weird.... I did a copy/paste of what I could "see" on > > the above page, which was the next four paragraphs but when I pasted > > it here, a LOT more info showed up on other products as well. > > I've never seen this > > happen before but I'll leave it anyhow. > > > > (START OF COPY/PASTE) > > KENS PREMIUM TROPICAL FISH FLAKE: > > > > EXTRA STABILIZED VITAMIN C AND FRESH FISH OIL UPGRADE THIS COMPLETE > > DIET. > > FOR FRESHWATER AND MARINE FISH. > > > > INGREDIENTS: FISH MEAL, BREWERS DRIED YEAST, SOY FLOUR. OAT FLOUR, > > CORN GLUTEN MEAL, SHRIMP MEAL, DRIED PLANKTON, DRIED SPIRULINA > > ALGAE, DRIED KELP, LECITHIN, VITAMIN SUPPLEMENTS A, D3, B12, BIOTIN, > > THIAMINE (SOURCE OF VITAMIN B1), NATURAL COLORING, ASCOROBIC ACID ( > > SOURCE OF VITAMIN C). > > > > GUARANTEED ANALYSIS: CRUDE PROTEIN 44.0% MIN., CRUDE FAT 9.0%MIN., > > CRUDE FIBER 1.2% MAX., MOISTURE 9.0% MAX. ALL NATURAL INGREDIENTS. > > NO PRESERVATIVES. > > > > (THIS WAS SUPPOSED TO BE THE END OF THE COPY/PASTE BUT SEE DOWN > > BELOW MY SIG FOR MORE INFO THAT SHOWED UP WITH THE PASTE, AND I > > STILL DO NOT KNOW WHY... > > MAYBE \\STEVE// HAS SEEN THIS BEFORE) > > > > Anyhow, as you can see, no mention of Phosphorous content. I'm not > > so sure it's as "premium" as it claims. The ingredients look very > > similar to the ingredients on many of the "cheap" fish foods. Other > > than the "Fish Meal" > > as the first ingredient, the next four are just fillers, IMO, before > > it returns to what looks like decent ingredients again, like the > > "Dried Plankton, Dried Spirulina Algae, Dried Kelp" and then it goes > > into the vitamins section. > > > > For comparison, here's the ingredients on my Omega One Goldfish > > Pellets > > (Medium): > > http://www.omegasea.net/medium_goldfish_pellets.html > <http://www.omegasea.net/medium_goldfish_pellets.html> > > INGREDIENTS: Whole Salmon, Whole Herring, Whole Shrimp, Wheat Flour, > > Wheat Gluten, Fresh Kelp, Soy Flour, Astaxanthin, > > L-Ascorbyl-2-Phosphate (Source of Vitamin C), Natural and Artificial > > Colors, Vitamin A Acetate, Vitamin D3 Supplement, Vitamin E > > Supplement, Vitamin B12 Supplement, Riboflavin, Niacin, Pantothenic > > Acid, Folic Acid, Biotin, Inositol, Tocopherol (Preservative), > > Ethoxyquin (Preservative). > > > > Yes, http://www.OmegaSea.net <http://www.OmegaSea.net> > <http://www.omegasea.net/ <http://www.omegasea.net/>> , makers of > Omega One fish > > foods, does have the > > "Wheat Flour", "Wheat Gluten" and "Soy Flour" fillers but they are > > the 3rd and 4th and 6th ingredients, not the 2nd, 3rd, 4th and 5th > > ingredients. > > Further, "Fish Meal", the first ingredient in Ken's, is a nice way > > of saying ground up fish by-products, whereas the Omega One has > > "Whole Salmon, Whole Herring, Whole Shrimp" listed as the 1st, 2nd > > and 3rd ingredients. > > > > Now, all this said, I'm certainly NOT saying that Ken's is a bad > > product, as it's very similar to the Nutrafin Max Goldfish Flakes > > which has "Fish Meal, Corn Meal, Wheat Flour, Soy Flour, Oat Meal, > > Squid Meal, Fish Liver Meal...." as the primary ingredients in it > > and it is also listed as a "premium" food according to Hagen... but > > my preference is to get away from foods that consist of too many > > un-natural products like the flour based fillers that make up so > > many of the ingredients in our pet foods. > > > > After all, when I go to the store and buy Green Peas, even the el > > cheapo generic canned ones, I DO NOT want wheat gluten, soy flour or > > any other kinds of flour's listed in the ingredients... just "Green > > Peas" and maybe some water and probably salt and preservatives. > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> <http://goldlenny.blogspot.com/ > <http://goldlenny.blogspot.com/>> > > (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the > > right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by > > Year, Month) > > > > > > (HERE'S THE OTHER STUFF THAT COPY/PASTED FROM THE KEN'S PAGE WHEN I > > ONLY COPY/PASTED FOUR PARAGRAPHS... STILL NOT SURE WHY THE REST OF > > THIS SHOWED > > UP) > > > > KENS PREMIUM CHICKEN LIVER FLAKE: > > > > EXTRA STABILIZED VITAMIN C AND FRESH FISH OIL UPGRADE THIS COMPLETE > > DIET ALONG WITH THE MAIN INGREDIENT OF FRESH CHICKEN LIVER. THE HIGH > > PROTEIN MAKES THIS EXCELLENT FOR FRY AS WELL AS GUPPIES AND OTHER > > LIVE BEARERS. > > > > INGREDIENTS: CHICKEN LIVER, FISH MEAL, BREWERS DRIED YEAST, SOY > > FLOUR. OAT FLOUR, CORN GLUTEN MEAL, SHRIMP MEAL, DRIED PLANKTON, > > DRIED SPIRULINA ALGAE, DRIED KELP, LECITHIN, VITAMIN SUPPLEMENTS A, > > D3, B12, BIOTIN, THIAMINE (SOURCE OF VITAMIN B1), NATURAL COLORING, > > ASCOROBIC ACID ( SOURCE OF VITAMIN C). > > > > GUARANTEED ANALYSIS: CRUDE PROTEIN 48.0% MIN., CRUDE FAT 9.0%MIN., > > CRUDE FIBER 5.0% MAX., MOISTURE 9.0% MAX. ALL NATURAL INGREDIENTS, > > EXCEPT SOME ARTIFICIAL COLORING. NO PRESERVATIVES. > > FOR PHOTO: > > 1/2 LB $4.25 > > 1 LB $8.00 > > > > 5 LB > > $35.00 > > > > > > > > KENS PREMIUM MARINE FLAKE: > > > > THIS PREMIUM FLAKE IS EXCELLENT FOR MARINE FISH. GREAT AS USING FOR > > A STARTER FLAKE FOR YOUNG FRESHWATER FRY AS WELL. > > > > INGREDIENTS: WHITE FISH MEAL & WHITE FISH PROTEIN CONCENTRATE. OAT, > > WHEAT, SOYBEEN MEAL FLOURS, SHRIMP, PLANKTON & KRILL MEAL, FISH OIL, > > LECITHIN, VITAMIN MINERAL SUPPLEMENT, SPIRULINA, FROZEN BRINE > > SHRIMP, KELP MEAL, METHIONINE.ASCORBIC ACID (SOURCE OF VITAMIN > > C).NATURAL AND SOME ARTIFICIAL COLORING. > > > > GUARANTEED ANALYSIS: CRUDE PROTEIN 46.0% MIN., CRUDE FAT 5.0% MIN., > > CRUDE FIBER 3.0% MAX., MOISTURE 8.0% MAX., ALL NATURAL INGREDIENTS, > > EXCEPT FOR SOME ARTIFICIAL COLORING. NO PRESERVATIVES. > > > > > > > > 1/2 LB $4.25 > > 1 LB $7.95 > > > > 5 LB > > $37.75 > > FOR PHOTO: > > KENS PREMIUM SPIRULINA + FLAKE > > WITH GARLIC & PAPRIKA: > > > > THIS IS REMARKABLE FORTIFIED FOOD THAT WILL KEEP YOUR > > TROPHEUS AND OTHER > > FISH IN TOP FORM.THIS CONTAINS A HIGH AMOUNT OF SPIRULINA > > AND THE ADDED > > INGREDIENT OF GARLIC & PAPRIKA! > > > > INGREDIENTS: FISH MEAL, DRIED BREWERS YEAST, SOY FLOUR, > > WHEAT FLOUR, OAT > > FLOUR, CORN GLUTEN MEAL, DRIED SPIRULINA ALGEA, GARLIC, > > SHRIMP MEAL, DRIED > > KRILL, FISH OIL, PAPRIKA, LECITHIN, VITAMIN SUPPLEMENTS A, > > D3, B12, BIOTIN, > > NATURAL COLORING, ASCORBIC ACID (SOURCE OF VITAMIN C). > > > > GUARANTEED ANALYSIS: CRUDE PROTEIN 45.0% MIN., CRUDE FAT > > 4.0% MAX., CRUDE > > FIBER 3.2% MAX., MOISTURE 8.0% MAX. ALL NATURAL > > INGREDIENTS, EXCEPT FOR SOME > > ARTIFICIAL COLORING. NO PRESERVATIVES. > > 1/2 LB $4.95 > > 1 LB $9.75 > > > > 5 LB > > $47.75 > > FOR PHOTO: > > > > > > > > KENS PREMIUM SUPER BRINE SHRIMP > > FLAKE: > > > > THIS IS EXCELLENT FOR GROWTH DUE TO THE HIGH AMOUNTS OF > > CRUDE PROTEIN. > > EXCELLENT DIGESTABILITY AND HIGH AMOUNTS BRINE SHRIMP MAKE > > UP THIS HIGH > > GRADE FORMULA. > > > > INGREDIENTS: FISH MEAL, SHRIMP MEAL, SOY FLOUR, SOY PROTEIN > > ISOLATE, FISH > > PROTEIN CONCENTRATE, BREWERS DRIED YEAST, CORN STARCH, SOY > > LECITHIN, DRIED > > BRINE SHRIMP, SODIUM ALGINATE, FISH OIL, MENADIONE > > DIMETHYIPYRIMIDINOL > > BISULFATE (SOURCE OF VITAMIN K), D1-ALPHA TOCOPHERYL > > ACETATE, INOSITOL, > > PARAMINO BENZOIC ACID, NIACIN, CALCIUM PANTOTHENATE, > > RIBOFLAVIN, BIOTIN, > > PYRIDOXINE HYDROCHLORIDE, THIAMINE MONONITRATE, VITAMIN A > > ACETATE, VITAMIN > > B12, VITAMIN D3 SUPPLEMENT, SQUIS MEAL, EMULSIFIER, CHOLINE > > CHLORIDE, > > MANGANESE PROTEINATE, ZINC PROTEINATE, COPPER PROTEINATE, > > CALCIUM IODATE, > > IRON PEOTEINATE, COBALT PROTEINATE, CALCIUM CARBONATE, > > SODIUM SELENITE, > > L-ASCORBYL-2POLYPHOSPHATE (SOURCE OF VITAMIN C). > > > > GUARANTEED ANALYSIS: CRUDE PROTEIN 50.0% MIN., CRUDE FAT > > 12.0% MAX., CRUDE > > FIBER 3.0% MAX., MOISTURE 10.0% MAX. SOME ARTIFICIAL > > COLORING AND > > PRESERVATIVES. > > FOR PHOTO: > > 1/2 LB $4.75 > > 1 LB $9.25 > > > > 5 LB > > $44.25 > > > > > > > > KENS PREMIUM COLOR FLAKE WITH NATUROSE ADDED: GREAT FOR > > ADDING COLOR! > > NATURE'S OWN COLORING FOOD! BRINGS OUT THE RADIENT NATURAL > > COLORS OF YOUR > > BEST FRESHWATER AND SALTWATER FISH! NOW WITH THE ADDED > > INGREDIENT OF > > NATUROSE FOR ADDED COLOR ENHANCEMENT. > > > > INGREDIENTS: FISH MEAL BLEND, SPECIAL MIX: DRIED PLANKTON, > > SHRIMP, KRILL AND > > DRIED SPIRULINA ALGEA, WHEAT GLUTEN MEAL, OAT FLOUR, > > BREWERS DRIED YEAST, > > CAROTENE, NATUROSE, LECITHIN, SOY OIL, FISH OIL, VITAMIN > > SUPPLEMENTS, A, D3, > > B12, BIOTIN, NATURAL & ARTIFICIAL COLORING, ASCORBIC > > ACID (SOURCE OF VITAMIN > > C). > > > > GUARANTEED ANALYSIS: CRUDE PROTEIN 44.0% MIN., CRUDE FAT > > 12.0% MIN., CRUDE > > FIBER 8.0% MAX., MOISTURE 8.0% MAX. ALL NATURAL > > INGREDIENTS. NO > > PRESERVATIVES. > > FOR PHOTO: > > 1/2 LB $4.50 > > 1 LB $8.75 > > > > 5 LB > > $42.00 > > > > > > > > KENS PREMIUM BEEFHEART FLAKE: > > > > EXCELLENT DIET FOR ANGELS AND DISCUS. MADE WITH REAL > > BEEFHEARTS TO HELP > > BRING YOUR FISH INTO FULL SPAWNING CONDITION. ALSO > > EXCELLENT FOR OTHER > > TROPICAL FISH. > > > > Main Ingredients: Fish Meal, Wheat Flour, Soy Flour, Shrimp > > Meal, Brewers > > Dried Yeast, Krill Meal, Fish Oil, Soy Lecithin, Spirulina, > > Emulsifier, > > Beefhearts, Choline Chloride, Sorbitol, Propylene Glycol, > > Artificial Color, > > Vitamin A, Vitamin D3 Supplement, d1-Alpha Tocopheryl > > Acetate (Vitamin E > > Supplement), Vitamin B12 Supplement, Riboflavin, Niacin, > > Calcium > > Pantothenate, Menadione Sodium Bisulfite Complex (source of > > vitamin K > > Activity), Folic Acid, Thiamine Mononitrate, Pyridoxine > > Hydrochloride, > > Biotin, Manganese Proteinate, Zinc Proteinate, Copper > > Proteinate, Calcium > > Iodate, Iron Proteinate, Cobolt Proteinate, Calcium > > Carbonate, Sodium > > Selenite, Anise Oil, L-Ascorbyl-2-Polyphosphate (source or > > Vitamin C), > > Xanthophyll, Canthaxanthin, Ethoxyquin, TBHQ > > (preservative). > > > > Guaranteed Analysis: Crude Protein 46.0% Min., Crude Fat > > 10.0% Min., Crude > > Fiber 3.0% Max., Moisture 10.0% Max. > > FOR PHOTO: > > 1/2 LB $4.50 > > 1 LB $8.75 > > > > 5 LB > > $42.00 > > > > > > > > KENS PREMIUM SUPER TROPICAL FLAKE: > > > > This is a higher protein general flake diet for all your > > tropical fish. This > > tropical fish flake contains spirulina, krill, Shrimp meal > > to aid in > > coloration. Also contains highly digestible marine proteins > > to reduce > > excreted waste. > > > > Ingredients: Fish Meal, Wheat Flour, Soy Flour, Shrimp > > Meal, Brewers Dried > > Yeast, Krill Meal, Soy Lecithin, Fish Oil, Emulsifier, > > Choline Chloride, > > Sorbitol, Propylene Glycol, Artificial Color, Spirulina, > > Yeast Extract, > > Calcium Phosphate, Anise Oil, Xanthophyll Pigments, > > L-Ascorbyl-2- > > Polyphosphate (source of Vitamin C), Canthaxanthin, > > Manganese Proteinate, > > Zinc Proteinate, Copper Proteinate, Calcium Iodate, Iron > > Proteinate, Cobalt > > Proteinate, Calcium Carbonate, Sodium Selenite, Vitamin A > > Acetate, Vitamin > > D3 Supplement, dl-Alpha Tocopheryl Acetate (Vitamin E > > Supplement), Vitamin > > B12 Supplement, Riboflavin Supplement, Niacin, Calcium > > Pantothenate, > > Menadione Sodium Bisulfite Complex (source of Vitamin K > > Activity), Folic > > Acid, Thiamine Mononitrate, Pyridoxine Hydrochloride, > > Biotin, Ethoxyquin, > > TBHQ (preservative). > > > > Guaranteed Analysis: Min. Protein 45.0%, Min. Crude Fat > > 9.0%, Max Crude > > Fiber 3.0%, Max Moisture 10.0%, > > FOR PHOTO: > > 1/2 LB $4.00 > > 1 LB $7.15 > > > > 5 LB > > $33.75 > > > > > > > > KENS PREMIUM HATCHERY FLAKE: > > > > EXTRA STABILIZED VITAMIN C AND FRESH FISH OIL UPGRADE THIS > > COMPLETE DIET. > > FOR FRESHWATER AND MARINE FISH. > > > > INGREDIENTS: FISH MEAL, BREWERS DRIED YEAST, SOY FLOUR. OAT > > FLOUR, CORN > > GLUTEN MEAL, SHRIMP MEAL, DRIED PLANKTON, DRIED SPIRULINA > > ALGAE, DRIED KELP, > > LECITHIN, VITAMIN SUPPLEMENTS A, D3, B12, BIOTIN, THIAMINE > > (SOURCE OF > > VITAMIN B1), NATURAL COLORING, ASCOROBIC ACID ( SOURCE OF > > VITAMIN C). > > > > GUARANTEED ANALYSIS: CRUDE PROTEIN 44.0% MIN., CRUDE FAT > > 9.0%MIN., CRUDE > > FIBER 1.2% MAX., MOISTURE 9.0% MAX. ALL NATURAL > > INGREDIENTS. NO > > PRESERVATIVES. > > FOR PHOTO: > > 1/2 LB $3.50 > > 1 LB $6.25 > > > > 5 LB > > $29.75 > > > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] > > On > > Behalf Of bill 1433 > > Sent: Monday, September 21, 2009 12:44 PM > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Black Algae Problem > > > > Check on the algae eater but far as I know, none eat the > > black stuff. Your > > right, i've got to figure out the "Y" part. Lights on > > 10 to 12 but they are > > standard tubes, 17watts each for the 20 and 29. > > > > Food? Very high protein stuff from Ken's up in Mass. > > Fish love it. > > > > Bill > > > > --- On Mon, 9/21/09, Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@... > <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com>> > > wrote: > > > > > From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@... > <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com>> > > > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Black Algae Problem > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > Date: Monday, September 21, 2009, 1:28 PM I guess the > > SeaChem Flourish > > > Excel might be your preferred choice... BUT... > > > remember that if you do not figure out the cause and > > fix the cause, it > > > will simply return, so you still have to figure out > > the cause. > > > > > > Presuming you are keeping any cycling issues in check > > and thus keeping > > > nitrates at a low enough level, below 20ppm, then I > > would highly > > > suspect either too much lighting (how long do you > > leave them on each > > > day and how much lighting do you have?) or direct > > sunlight or other > > > nutrients (mainly > > > phosphates) that you may be getting from your well > > water or from many > > > foods that list phosphorous percentages (I've seen > > many that have MUCH > > > higher levels than others). > > > > > > I'm looking at three of my store bought foods right > > now. Omega One > > > Medium Goldfish Pellets lists "Min. Phosphorous > > (0.5%)". I'm not sure > > > why it's in brackets ( ), as the other analysis levels > > are not in > > > brackets... could this mean negative???, I have to > > check with Omega > > > One. My Hikari Algae Wafers has "Guaranteed > > Analysis" as "Phosphorous > > > min 0.7%" but then in a separate section called > > "Typical Analysis", it > > > has "Phosphorous 1.4%". My Hagen Nutrafin Max > > Goldfish Flake Food has > > > "Phosphorous min 0.5%, max 0.9%". > > > > > > I've seen other foods where they "advertise" on the > > package of having > > > less than 3% phosphorous or something like that, which > > means they are > > > simply taking advantage of the uninformed as those > > levels of > > > phosphorous are 3X to 6X the levels of the three foods > > I just listed > > > and even the Hikari Algae Wafers has nearly 2X to 3X > > more than the > > > other two. > > > > > > As usual with store bought foods, check the > > ingredients. > > > > > > Last but not least, if you have bioload room in the > > tanks and cannot > > > figure out the cause of the algae, you might want to > > consider a small > > > algae eater. > > > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> <http://goldlenny.blogspot.com/ > <http://goldlenny.blogspot.com/>> (Links to any > > articles > > > referenced in above reply are listed on the right > > side, alphabetically > > > under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] > > > On > > > Behalf Of bill 1433 > > > Sent: Monday, September 21, 2009 11:48 AM > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Black Algae Problem > > > > > > Len, > > > > > > I understand what your trying to say and thanks for > > the > > > help but the problem > > > is the stuff is everywhere. Not real heavy and > > can > > > usually just be wiped > > > off with the clean cloth, the problems come in at the > > > "where" part. > > > > > > For instance pieces of gravel, not all mind you just > > some, > > > you know, so > > > you'll notice it! > > > > > > What I need is a way to dose the whole tank at once > > without > > > having to worry > > > about checking for survivors when I'm done. The > > hp > > > seems to infer direct > > > contact. Working with a syringe it would > > probably > > > take me to Christmas to > > > get the whole tank done by this method, which is why > > I'm > > > looking at Seachem. > > > Now if there was some way of using the HP in this > > method it > > > would be great > > > but most articles seem to infer this direct contact > > > approach. > > > > > > Thanks, Bill > > > > > > > > > > > > --- On Mon, 9/21/09, Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@... > <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com>> > > > wrote: > > > > > > > From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@... > <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com>> > > > > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Black Algae Problem > > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > Date: Monday, September 21, 2009, 12:21 PM I > > know > > > TheKrib's thread is > > > > from late 1990's - early 2000's but IT is some of > > the > > > best info out > > > > there on the net. EVERY forum thread that > > I've ever > > > seen in any other > > > > forum still refers to TheKrib's thread as THE > > guide > > > for using Hydrogen > > > > Peroxide. I know the dosages are or can be > > confusing > > > in that thread > > > > as that was raw data compiled by posting around > > 20 > > > experienced replies > > > > to make that page, which is why I included the > > one > > > paragraph about > > > > what the safe dosage was, as I know it from > > reading > > > many other forum > > > > threads over the years and using it myself in > > the > > > past. > > > > > > > > 1 oz. per 10G has been used on tanks with fry but > > if > > > you are more > > > > concerned, halve that dosage. Do the dosing > > during > > > the day so the > > > > lights stay on for a while after the dose as > > light > > > helps to break down > > > > the HP faster. Since you are using a > > syringe (minus > > > needle) to apply > > > > the HP, it's the direct contact of the HP on the > > algae > > > that does the > > > > job and then the HP breaks down into water and > > > oxygen. Do a PWC the > > > > next day (or even be prepared to do a PWC after > > dosing > > > if your fish > > > > are showing any signs of distress but the 1 oz. > > > > per 10G should be OK. 1 oz. equals around > > 30ml > > > (actually 29.57ml if > > > > you have a highly calibrated syringe... lol). > > > > > > > > In TheKrib's page, there were people who > > experimented > > > with using as > > > > much as 60ml per 10G (2 oz. per 10G) which was > > found > > > to cause issues > > > > for sensitive snails and ghost shrimp and some > > fish. > > > Others would > > > > dose with their filters off, worried about the > > HP > > > causing harm to the > > > > filters, but that could also cause problems as it > > did > > > not > > > > disperse/dilute the HP fast enough in the water > > > column. Just leave > > > > your filters running BUT do not squirt the HP > > close > > > enough to a filter > > > > intake. If you need to dose near the > > filter, unplug > > > it for a moment, > > > > do the dose, use something to stir up the water > > in > > > that area, then > > > > turn the filter back on. Leave the lights > > on for > > > several hours after > > > > using HP. Do the PWC the next day and dose > > again as > > > needed. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > As far as the Excel, which is an EXPENSIVE > > alternative > > > treatment, here > > > > are a couple of forum threads on the topic, with > > some > > > users using up > > > > to 5X the proper dose of Excel, every 3 days. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > http://www.aquaticplantcentral.com/forumapc/algae/3806-flourish-excel-got-ri > <http://www.aquaticplantcentral.com/forumapc/algae/3806-flourish-excel-got-r i> > > > d-all-my.html (25 page thread) > > > > > > > > SeaChem's official reply. > > > > http://www.seachem.com/support/forums/showthread.php?t=682 > <http://www.seachem.com/support/forums/showthread.php?t=682> > > > > > > > > The top FAQ on this page is another of SeaChem's > > > official replies. > > > > http://www.seachem.com/support/FAQs/FlourishExcel.html > <http://www.seachem.com/support/FAQs/FlourishExcel.html> > > > > > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> <http://goldlenny.blogspot.com/ > <http://goldlenny.blogspot.com/>> (Links to > > > any articles > > > > referenced in above reply are listed on the > > right > > > side, alphabetically > > > > under Labels and also under Archives by Year, > > Month) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] > > > > On > > > > Behalf Of bill 1433 > > > > Sent: Monday, September 21, 2009 8:40 AM > > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Black Algae Problem > > > > > > > > Hi Len, > > > > > > > > \\Steve// also suggested this BUT, even with the > > links > > > you > > > > sent (some dated) > > > > it appears that there is great controversy over > > > dosage. > > > > > > > > The fish in the tank are 9 rams at 5 months old > > and 3 > > > Cory > > > > cats. Those Rams > > > > were a long time coming and I really don't want > > > anything to > > > > happen to them. > > > > > > > > On the other hand, some for other groups mention > > the > > > use of > > > > SeaChem's Excel > > > > but again, nobody seems to have an dosage level > > for > > > > positive results. > > > > Looking at their web-site they do mention this > > on > > > their > > > > support page but > > > > since this is a by-pass type of reaction they are > > not > > > being > > > > specific as to > > > > dosage either. Unless they just mean to use > > the > > > product > > > > by its instructions > > > > on the bottle to boost carbon for plants. > > > Information so > > > > far has been "ify" > > > > at best. I don't want to hurt those Rams. > > > > > > > > Bill--where Rams Rule! > > > > > > > > --- On Mon, 9/21/09, Lenny V. aka GoldLenny > > <GoldLenny@... <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com>> > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@... > <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com>> > > > > > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Black Algae > > Problem > > > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > Date: Monday, September 21, 2009, 1:29 AM > > Bill, > > > > > > > > > > If I recall correctly, you do NOT have any > > live > > > > plants... > > > > > right? > > > > > > > > > > Here's a thread about using HP for algae > > issues, > > > > including suggested > > > > > dosages, etc. > > > > > > > > > > http://www.thekrib.com/Plants/Algae/hydrogen-peroxide.html > <http://www.thekrib.com/Plants/Algae/hydrogen-peroxide.html> > > > > > > > > > > And an article. > > > > > > > > > > > http://www.malawicichlidhomepage.com/aquainfo/algae_peroxide.html > <http://www.malawicichlidhomepage.com/aquainfo/algae_peroxide.html> > > > > > > > > > > The basic safe dose for fish and plants is 1 > > oz. > > > per > > > > 10G per day, with > > > > > PWC's between each treatment and do not dose > > the > > > tank > > > > close to the > > > > > intake to your filter(s). If you have > > > sensitive > > > > shrimp or snails and > > > > > someone mentioned oto's, then you might want > > to > > > halve > > > > that dosage. > > > > > > > > > > One other question, are you sure you have > > "black > > > > algae". Algae is > > > > > another thing in the aquarium hobby that > > suffers > > > from > > > > common name > > > > > abuse so look over these articles and I can > > give > > > you > > > > several other > > > > > sites about algae, if you don't have them > > > already, for > > > > even more > > > > > reading. > > > > > You'll see what I mean > > > > > about the common name problem. > > > > > > > > > > If your water testing is showing low levels > > of > > > > nitrates and other > > > > > nitrogenous compounds, then you might want > > to > > > check > > > > your phosphate > > > > > levels in your source water and tank. > > Also, > > > many > > > > fish foods are a BIG > > > > > source of phosphates so check them also and > > > maybe > > > > change over to a > > > > > lower phosphate level food. > > > > > > > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > > > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> <http://goldlenny.blogspot.com/ > <http://goldlenny.blogspot.com/>> (Links to > > > > any articles > > > > > referenced in above reply are listed on the > > > right > > > > side, alphabetically > > > > > under Labels and also under Archives by > > Year, > > > Month) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] > > > > > On > > > > > Behalf Of Steve Szabo > > > > > Sent: Sunday, September 20, 2009 10:50 PM > > > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Black Algae > > Problem > > > > > > > > > > Bill, > > > > > > > > > > Get some hydrogen peroxide (normally found > > in a > > > 3% > > > > > solution) and a syringe. > > > > > With the syringe, apply the hydrogen > > peroxide > > > directly > > > > to > > > > > the black algae. > > > > > This should kill the black algae without > > harming > > > any > > > > plants > > > > > or fish in the > > > > > process, since hydrogen peroxide will break > > down > > > > fairly > > > > > rapidly to the main > > > > > components, water and oxygen, > > > > > > > > > > \\Steve// > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] > > > > > On > > > > > Behalf Of bill 1433 > > > > > Sent: Sunday, September 20, 2009 11:23 PM > > > > > To: AquaticLife > > > > > Subject: [AquaticLife] Black Algae Problem > > > > > > > > > > I have started getting a black algae problem > > that > > > I > > > > am > > > > > trying to live with > > > > > but have not been able to conquer. The > > tanks > > > are a > > > > > standard 29-gallon Ram > > > > > tank and a 20-gallon long with Neon Tetras > > in > > > it. > > > > > > > > > > I may have posted this problem a few months > > ago > > > and > > > > have > > > > > been living with it > > > > > through cleaning and water changes but the > > > problem > > > > has > > > > > never really > > > > > completely cleared. Someone mentioned > > the use > > > of > > > > > Seachem's Excel to kill it > > > > > but I'm not sure of proper dosage or how > > long. > > > All > > > > water > > > > > tests are fine and > > > > > pH is 7.0 > > > > > > > > > > Bill

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 43524	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 9/21/2009
Subject: Re: Black Algae Problem

CSS = Cascading Style Sheets, Cascading Style Sheets (CSS) is a style sheet language used to describe the presentation semantics (that is, the look and formatting) of a document written in a markup language. Its most common application is to style web pages written in HTML and XHTML, but the language can be applied to any kind of XML document, including SVG and XUL. (Wikipedia) Roughly translated, it is a method to keep the look and feel of a page across a web site. What the Golden Boy experienced when he did the copy is usually more obvious in that there are visual cues to the excess that will be copied if you do not fix your selection. Since the site that Lenny copied from did not give the visual cues, you end up copying all the stuff you want along with all the stuff you don't, since you cannot fix what you are unaware is broke. \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of bill 1433 Sent: Monday, September 21, 2009 6:44 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Black Algae Problem CSS? Bill --- On Mon, 9/21/09, Steve Szabo <steve@...> wrote: > From: Steve Szabo <steve@...> > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Black Algae Problem > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Date: Monday, September 21, 2009, 4:44 PM > Ken seems to sell good food from the > reports that I have received. I have never heard it be > mentioned along with algae as a causative agent. > > I'd say that what you experienced, Gold One, is probably an > artifact of the use of CSS. > > \\Steve// > > ________________________________ > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > on behalf of Lenny V. aka GoldLenny > Sent: Mon 9/21/2009 2:24 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Black Algae Problem > > > > I do not know much about "Ken's up in Mass" so I Googled > and found this, > http://kensfish.com <http://kensfish.com/> , and this page > on their Ken's Premium Flake Food, > http://kensfish.com/kensflake1.html, does not list the > phosphorous content > (You might want to email them and ask about the phosphorous > content) > > Well, that was weird.... I did a copy/paste of what I could > "see" on the > above page, which was the next four paragraphs but when I > pasted it here, a > LOT more info showed up on other products as well.  > I've never seen this > happen before but I'll leave it anyhow. > > (START OF COPY/PASTE) > KENS PREMIUM TROPICAL FISH FLAKE: > > EXTRA STABILIZED VITAMIN C AND FRESH FISH OIL UPGRADE THIS > COMPLETE DIET. > FOR FRESHWATER AND MARINE FISH. > > INGREDIENTS: FISH MEAL, BREWERS DRIED YEAST, SOY FLOUR. OAT > FLOUR, CORN > GLUTEN MEAL, SHRIMP MEAL, DRIED PLANKTON, DRIED SPIRULINA > ALGAE, DRIED KELP, > LECITHIN, VITAMIN SUPPLEMENTS A, D3, B12, BIOTIN, THIAMINE > (SOURCE OF > VITAMIN B1), NATURAL COLORING, ASCOROBIC ACID ( SOURCE OF > VITAMIN C). > > GUARANTEED ANALYSIS: CRUDE PROTEIN 44.0% MIN., CRUDE FAT > 9.0%MIN., CRUDE > FIBER 1.2% MAX., MOISTURE 9.0% MAX. ALL NATURAL > INGREDIENTS. NO > PRESERVATIVES. > > (THIS WAS SUPPOSED TO BE THE END OF THE COPY/PASTE BUT SEE > DOWN BELOW MY SIG > FOR MORE INFO THAT SHOWED UP WITH THE PASTE, AND I STILL DO > NOT KNOW WHY... > MAYBE \\STEVE// HAS SEEN THIS BEFORE) > > Anyhow, as you can see, no mention of Phosphorous > content.  I'm not so sure > it's as "premium" as it claims.  The ingredients look > very similar to the > ingredients on many of the "cheap" fish foods.  Other > than the "Fish Meal" > as the first ingredient, the next four are just fillers, > IMO, before it > returns to what looks like decent ingredients again, like > the "Dried > Plankton, Dried Spirulina Algae, Dried Kelp" and then it > goes into the > vitamins section. > > For comparison, here's the ingredients on my Omega One > Goldfish Pellets > (Medium): > http://www.omegasea.net/medium_goldfish_pellets.html > INGREDIENTS: Whole Salmon, Whole Herring, Whole Shrimp, > Wheat Flour, Wheat > Gluten, Fresh Kelp, Soy Flour, Astaxanthin, > L-Ascorbyl-2-Phosphate (Source > of Vitamin C), Natural and Artificial Colors, Vitamin A > Acetate, Vitamin D3 > Supplement, Vitamin E Supplement, Vitamin B12 Supplement, > Riboflavin, > Niacin, Pantothenic Acid, Folic Acid, Biotin, Inositol, > Tocopherol > (Preservative), Ethoxyquin (Preservative). > > Yes, http://www.OmegaSea.net <http://www.omegasea.net/> , makers of Omega One fish > foods, does have the > "Wheat Flour", "Wheat Gluten" and "Soy Flour" fillers but > they are the 3rd > and 4th and 6th ingredients, not the 2nd, 3rd, 4th and 5th > ingredients. > Further, "Fish Meal", the first ingredient in Ken's, is a > nice way of saying > ground up fish by-products, whereas the Omega One has > "Whole Salmon, Whole > Herring, Whole Shrimp" listed as the 1st, 2nd and 3rd > ingredients. > > Now, all this said, I'm certainly NOT saying that Ken's is > a bad product, as > it's very similar to the Nutrafin Max Goldfish Flakes which > has "Fish Meal, > Corn Meal, Wheat Flour, Soy Flour, Oat Meal, Squid Meal, > Fish Liver > Meal...." as the primary ingredients in it and it is also > listed as a > "premium" food according to Hagen... but my preference is > to get away from > foods that consist of too many un-natural products like the > flour based > fillers that make up so many of the ingredients in our pet > foods. > > After all, when I go to the store and buy Green Peas, even > the el cheapo > generic canned ones, I DO NOT want wheat gluten, soy flour > or any other > kinds of flour's listed in the ingredients... just "Green > Peas" and maybe > some water and probably salt and preservatives. > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://goldlenny.blogspot.com/> > (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed > on the right > side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives > by Year, Month) > > > (HERE'S THE OTHER STUFF THAT COPY/PASTED FROM THE KEN'S > PAGE WHEN I ONLY > COPY/PASTED FOUR PARAGRAPHS... STILL NOT SURE WHY THE REST > OF THIS SHOWED > UP) > > KENS PREMIUM CHICKEN LIVER FLAKE: > > EXTRA STABILIZED VITAMIN C AND FRESH FISH OIL UPGRADE THIS > COMPLETE DIET > ALONG WITH THE MAIN INGREDIENT OF FRESH CHICKEN LIVER. THE > HIGH PROTEIN > MAKES THIS EXCELLENT FOR FRY AS WELL AS GUPPIES AND OTHER > LIVE BEARERS. > > INGREDIENTS: CHICKEN LIVER, FISH MEAL, BREWERS DRIED YEAST, > SOY FLOUR. OAT > FLOUR, CORN GLUTEN MEAL, SHRIMP MEAL, DRIED PLANKTON, DRIED > SPIRULINA ALGAE, > DRIED KELP, LECITHIN, VITAMIN SUPPLEMENTS A, D3, B12, > BIOTIN, THIAMINE > (SOURCE OF VITAMIN B1), NATURAL COLORING, ASCOROBIC ACID ( > SOURCE OF VITAMIN > C). > > GUARANTEED ANALYSIS: CRUDE PROTEIN 48.0% MIN., CRUDE FAT > 9.0%MIN., CRUDE > FIBER 5.0% MAX., MOISTURE 9.0% MAX. ALL NATURAL > INGREDIENTS, EXCEPT SOME > ARTIFICIAL COLORING. NO PRESERVATIVES. > FOR PHOTO: >   1/2 LB $4.25          >           1 LB $8.00    >                 >   5 LB > $35.00 >         >   > > KENS PREMIUM MARINE FLAKE: > > THIS PREMIUM FLAKE IS EXCELLENT FOR MARINE FISH. GREAT AS > USING FOR A > STARTER FLAKE FOR YOUNG FRESHWATER FRY AS WELL. > > INGREDIENTS: WHITE FISH MEAL & WHITE FISH PROTEIN > CONCENTRATE. OAT, WHEAT, > SOYBEEN MEAL FLOURS, SHRIMP, PLANKTON & KRILL MEAL, > FISH OIL, LECITHIN, > VITAMIN MINERAL SUPPLEMENT, SPIRULINA, FROZEN BRINE SHRIMP, > KELP MEAL, > METHIONINE.ASCORBIC ACID (SOURCE OF VITAMIN C).NATURAL AND > SOME ARTIFICIAL > COLORING. > > GUARANTEED ANALYSIS: CRUDE PROTEIN 46.0% MIN., CRUDE FAT > 5.0% MIN., CRUDE > FIBER 3.0% MAX., MOISTURE 8.0% MAX., ALL NATURAL > INGREDIENTS, EXCEPT FOR > SOME ARTIFICIAL COLORING. NO PRESERVATIVES. > >   > >   1/2 LB $4.25          >           1 LB $7.95    >                 >   5 LB > $37.75 >   FOR PHOTO: >      KENS PREMIUM SPIRULINA + FLAKE > WITH GARLIC & PAPRIKA: > > THIS IS REMARKABLE FORTIFIED FOOD THAT WILL KEEP YOUR > TROPHEUS AND OTHER > FISH IN TOP FORM.THIS CONTAINS A HIGH AMOUNT OF SPIRULINA > AND THE ADDED > INGREDIENT OF GARLIC & PAPRIKA! > > INGREDIENTS: FISH MEAL, DRIED BREWERS YEAST, SOY FLOUR, > WHEAT FLOUR, OAT > FLOUR, CORN GLUTEN MEAL, DRIED SPIRULINA ALGEA, GARLIC, > SHRIMP MEAL, DRIED > KRILL, FISH OIL, PAPRIKA, LECITHIN, VITAMIN SUPPLEMENTS A, > D3, B12, BIOTIN, > NATURAL COLORING, ASCORBIC ACID (SOURCE OF VITAMIN C). > > GUARANTEED ANALYSIS: CRUDE PROTEIN 45.0% MIN., CRUDE FAT > 4.0% MAX., CRUDE > FIBER 3.2% MAX., MOISTURE 8.0% MAX. ALL NATURAL > INGREDIENTS, EXCEPT FOR SOME > ARTIFICIAL COLORING. NO PRESERVATIVES. >   1/2 LB $4.95          >           1 LB $9.75    >                 >   5 LB > $47.75 > FOR PHOTO: >   >   > >       KENS PREMIUM SUPER BRINE SHRIMP > FLAKE: > > THIS IS EXCELLENT FOR GROWTH DUE TO THE HIGH AMOUNTS OF > CRUDE PROTEIN. > EXCELLENT DIGESTABILITY AND HIGH AMOUNTS BRINE SHRIMP MAKE > UP THIS HIGH > GRADE FORMULA. > > INGREDIENTS: FISH MEAL, SHRIMP MEAL, SOY FLOUR, SOY PROTEIN > ISOLATE, FISH > PROTEIN CONCENTRATE, BREWERS DRIED YEAST, CORN STARCH, SOY > LECITHIN, DRIED > BRINE SHRIMP, SODIUM ALGINATE, FISH OIL, MENADIONE > DIMETHYIPYRIMIDINOL > BISULFATE (SOURCE OF VITAMIN K), D1-ALPHA TOCOPHERYL > ACETATE, INOSITOL, > PARAMINO BENZOIC ACID, NIACIN, CALCIUM PANTOTHENATE, > RIBOFLAVIN, BIOTIN, > PYRIDOXINE HYDROCHLORIDE, THIAMINE MONONITRATE, VITAMIN A > ACETATE, VITAMIN > B12, VITAMIN D3 SUPPLEMENT, SQUIS MEAL, EMULSIFIER, CHOLINE > CHLORIDE, > MANGANESE PROTEINATE, ZINC PROTEINATE, COPPER PROTEINATE, > CALCIUM IODATE, > IRON PEOTEINATE, COBALT PROTEINATE, CALCIUM CARBONATE, > SODIUM SELENITE, > L-ASCORBYL-2POLYPHOSPHATE (SOURCE OF VITAMIN C). > > GUARANTEED ANALYSIS: CRUDE PROTEIN 50.0% MIN., CRUDE FAT > 12.0% MAX., CRUDE > FIBER 3.0% MAX., MOISTURE 10.0% MAX. SOME ARTIFICIAL > COLORING AND > PRESERVATIVES. > FOR PHOTO: >   1/2 LB $4.75          >           1 LB $9.25    >                 >   5 LB > $44.25 >         >   > > KENS PREMIUM COLOR FLAKE WITH NATUROSE ADDED: GREAT FOR > ADDING COLOR! > NATURE'S OWN COLORING FOOD! BRINGS OUT THE RADIENT NATURAL > COLORS OF YOUR > BEST FRESHWATER AND SALTWATER FISH! NOW WITH THE ADDED > INGREDIENT OF > NATUROSE FOR ADDED COLOR ENHANCEMENT. > > INGREDIENTS: FISH MEAL BLEND, SPECIAL MIX: DRIED PLANKTON, > SHRIMP, KRILL AND > DRIED SPIRULINA ALGEA, WHEAT GLUTEN MEAL, OAT FLOUR, > BREWERS DRIED YEAST, > CAROTENE, NATUROSE, LECITHIN, SOY OIL, FISH OIL, VITAMIN > SUPPLEMENTS, A, D3, > B12, BIOTIN, NATURAL & ARTIFICIAL COLORING, ASCORBIC > ACID (SOURCE OF VITAMIN > C). > > GUARANTEED ANALYSIS: CRUDE PROTEIN 44.0% MIN., CRUDE FAT > 12.0% MIN., CRUDE > FIBER 8.0% MAX., MOISTURE 8.0% MAX. ALL NATURAL > INGREDIENTS. NO > PRESERVATIVES. > FOR PHOTO: >   1/2 LB $4.50          >           1 LB $8.75    >                 >   5 LB > $42.00 >         >   > > KENS PREMIUM BEEFHEART FLAKE: > > EXCELLENT DIET FOR ANGELS AND DISCUS. MADE WITH REAL > BEEFHEARTS TO HELP > BRING YOUR FISH INTO FULL SPAWNING CONDITION. ALSO > EXCELLENT FOR OTHER > TROPICAL FISH. > > Main Ingredients: Fish Meal, Wheat Flour, Soy Flour, Shrimp > Meal, Brewers > Dried Yeast, Krill Meal, Fish Oil, Soy Lecithin, Spirulina, > Emulsifier, > Beefhearts, Choline Chloride, Sorbitol, Propylene Glycol, > Artificial Color, > Vitamin A, Vitamin D3 Supplement, d1-Alpha Tocopheryl > Acetate (Vitamin E > Supplement), Vitamin B12 Supplement, Riboflavin, Niacin, > Calcium > Pantothenate, Menadione Sodium Bisulfite Complex (source of > vitamin K > Activity), Folic Acid, Thiamine Mononitrate, Pyridoxine > Hydrochloride, > Biotin, Manganese Proteinate, Zinc Proteinate, Copper > Proteinate, Calcium > Iodate, Iron Proteinate, Cobolt Proteinate, Calcium > Carbonate, Sodium > Selenite, Anise Oil, L-Ascorbyl-2-Polyphosphate (source or > Vitamin C), > Xanthophyll, Canthaxanthin, Ethoxyquin, TBHQ > (preservative). > > Guaranteed Analysis: Crude Protein 46.0% Min., Crude Fat > 10.0% Min., Crude > Fiber 3.0% Max., Moisture 10.0% Max. > FOR PHOTO: >   1/2 LB $4.50          >           1 LB $8.75    >                 >   5 LB > $42.00 >         >   > > KENS PREMIUM SUPER TROPICAL FLAKE: > > This is a higher protein general flake diet for all your > tropical fish. This > tropical fish flake contains spirulina, krill, Shrimp meal > to aid in > coloration. Also contains highly digestible marine proteins > to reduce > excreted waste. > > Ingredients: Fish Meal, Wheat Flour, Soy Flour, Shrimp > Meal, Brewers Dried > Yeast, Krill Meal, Soy Lecithin, Fish Oil, Emulsifier, > Choline Chloride, > Sorbitol, Propylene Glycol, Artificial Color, Spirulina, > Yeast Extract, > Calcium Phosphate, Anise Oil, Xanthophyll Pigments, > L-Ascorbyl-2- > Polyphosphate (source of Vitamin C), Canthaxanthin, > Manganese Proteinate, > Zinc Proteinate, Copper Proteinate, Calcium Iodate, Iron > Proteinate, Cobalt > Proteinate, Calcium Carbonate, Sodium Selenite, Vitamin A > Acetate, Vitamin > D3 Supplement, dl-Alpha Tocopheryl Acetate (Vitamin E > Supplement), Vitamin > B12 Supplement, Riboflavin Supplement, Niacin, Calcium > Pantothenate, > Menadione Sodium Bisulfite Complex (source of Vitamin K > Activity), Folic > Acid, Thiamine Mononitrate, Pyridoxine Hydrochloride, > Biotin, Ethoxyquin, > TBHQ (preservative). > > Guaranteed Analysis: Min. Protein 45.0%, Min. Crude Fat > 9.0%, Max Crude > Fiber 3.0%, Max Moisture 10.0%, > FOR PHOTO: >   1/2 LB $4.00          >           1 LB $7.15    >                 >   5 LB > $33.75 >         >   > > KENS PREMIUM HATCHERY FLAKE: > > EXTRA STABILIZED VITAMIN C AND FRESH FISH OIL UPGRADE THIS > COMPLETE DIET. > FOR FRESHWATER AND MARINE FISH. > > INGREDIENTS: FISH MEAL, BREWERS DRIED YEAST, SOY FLOUR. OAT > FLOUR, CORN > GLUTEN MEAL, SHRIMP MEAL, DRIED PLANKTON, DRIED SPIRULINA > ALGAE, DRIED KELP, > LECITHIN, VITAMIN SUPPLEMENTS A, D3, B12, BIOTIN, THIAMINE > (SOURCE OF > VITAMIN B1), NATURAL COLORING, ASCOROBIC ACID ( SOURCE OF > VITAMIN C). > > GUARANTEED ANALYSIS: CRUDE PROTEIN 44.0% MIN., CRUDE FAT > 9.0%MIN., CRUDE > FIBER 1.2% MAX., MOISTURE 9.0% MAX. ALL NATURAL > INGREDIENTS. NO > PRESERVATIVES. > FOR PHOTO: >   1/2 LB $3.50          >           1 LB $6.25    >                 >   5 LB > $29.75 >         >   > > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] > On > Behalf Of bill 1433 > Sent: Monday, September 21, 2009 12:44 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Black Algae Problem > > Check on the algae eater but far as I know, none eat the > black stuff.  Your > right, i've got to figure out the "Y" part.  Lights on > 10 to 12 but they are > standard tubes, 17watts each for the 20 and 29. > > Food?  Very high protein stuff from Ken's up in Mass. > Fish love it. > > Bill > > --- On Mon, 9/21/09, Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@...> > wrote: > > > From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@...> > > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Black Algae Problem > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > Date: Monday, September 21, 2009, 1:28 PM I guess the > SeaChem Flourish > > Excel might be your preferred choice... BUT... > > remember that if you do not figure out the cause and > fix the cause, it > > will simply return, so you still have to figure out > the cause. > > > > Presuming you are keeping any cycling issues in check > and thus keeping > > nitrates at a low enough level, below 20ppm, then I > would highly > > suspect either too much lighting (how long do you > leave them on each > > day and how much lighting do you have?) or direct > sunlight or other > > nutrients (mainly > > phosphates) that you may be getting from your well > water or from many > > foods that list phosphorous percentages (I've seen > many that have MUCH > > higher levels than others). > > > > I'm looking at three of my store bought foods right > now.  Omega One > > Medium Goldfish Pellets lists "Min. Phosphorous > (0.5%)".  I'm not sure > > why it's in brackets ( ), as the other analysis levels > are not in > > brackets... could this mean negative???, I have to > check with Omega > > One.  My Hikari Algae Wafers has "Guaranteed > Analysis" as "Phosphorous > > min 0.7%" but then in a separate section called > "Typical Analysis", it > > has "Phosphorous 1.4%".  My Hagen Nutrafin Max > Goldfish Flake Food has > > "Phosphorous min 0.5%, max 0.9%". > > > > I've seen other foods where they "advertise" on the > package of having > > less than 3% phosphorous or something like that, which > means they are > > simply taking advantage of the uninformed as those > levels of > > phosphorous are 3X to 6X the levels of the three foods > I just listed > > and even the Hikari Algae Wafers has nearly 2X to 3X > more than the > > other two. > > > > As usual with store bought foods, check the > ingredients. > > > > Last but not least, if you have bioload room in the > tanks and cannot > > figure out the cause of the algae, you might want to > consider a small > > algae eater. > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://goldlenny.blogspot.com/>  (Links to any > articles > > referenced in above reply are listed on the right > side, alphabetically > > under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) > > > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] > > On > > Behalf Of bill 1433 > > Sent: Monday, September 21, 2009 11:48 AM > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Black Algae Problem > > > > Len, > > > > I understand what your trying to say and thanks for > the > > help but the problem > > is the stuff is everywhere.  Not real heavy and > can > > usually just be wiped > > off with the clean cloth, the problems come in at the > > "where" part. > > > > For instance pieces of gravel, not all mind you just > some, > > you know, so > > you'll notice it! > > > > What I need is a way to dose the whole tank at once > without > > having to worry > > about checking for survivors when I'm done.  The > hp > > seems to infer direct > > contact.  Working with a syringe it would > probably > > take me to Christmas to > > get the whole tank done by this method, which is why > I'm > > looking at Seachem. > > Now if there was some way of using the HP in this > method it > > would be great > > but most articles seem to infer this direct contact > > approach. > > > > Thanks, Bill > > > > > > > > --- On Mon, 9/21/09, Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@...> > > wrote: > > > > > From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@...> > > > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Black Algae Problem > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > > Date: Monday, September 21, 2009, 12:21 PM I > know > > TheKrib's thread is > > > from late 1990's - early 2000's but IT is some of > the > > best info out > > > there on the net.  EVERY forum thread that > I've ever > > seen in any other > > > forum still refers to TheKrib's thread as THE > guide > > for using Hydrogen > > > Peroxide.  I know the dosages are or can be > confusing > > in that thread > > > as that was raw data compiled by posting around > 20 > > experienced replies > > > to make that page, which is why I included the > one > > paragraph about > > > what the safe dosage was, as I know it from > reading > > many other forum > > > threads over the years and using it myself in > the > > past. > > > > > > 1 oz. per 10G has been used on tanks with fry but > if > > you are more > > > concerned, halve that dosage.  Do the dosing > during > > the day so the > > > lights stay on for a while after the dose as > light > > helps to break down > > > the HP faster.  Since you are using a > syringe (minus > > needle) to apply > > > the HP, it's the direct contact of the HP on the > algae > > that does the > > > job and then the HP breaks down into water and > > oxygen.  Do a PWC the > > > next day (or even be prepared to do a PWC after > dosing > > if your fish > > > are showing any signs of distress but the 1 oz. > > > per 10G should be OK.  1 oz. equals around > 30ml > > (actually 29.57ml if > > > you have a highly calibrated syringe... lol). > > > > > > In TheKrib's page, there were people who > experimented > > with using as > > > much as 60ml per 10G (2 oz. per 10G) which was > found > > to cause issues > > > for sensitive snails and ghost shrimp and some > fish. > > Others would > > > dose with their filters off, worried about the > HP > > causing harm to the > > > filters, but that could also cause problems as it > did > > not > > > disperse/dilute the HP fast enough in the water > > column.  Just leave > > > your filters running BUT do not squirt the HP > close > > enough to a filter > > > intake.  If you need to dose near the > filter, unplug > > it for a moment, > > > do the dose, use something to stir up the water > in > > that area, then > > > turn the filter back on.  Leave the lights > on for > > several hours after > > > using HP.  Do the PWC the next day and dose > again as > > needed. > > > > > > > > > > > > As far as the Excel, which is an EXPENSIVE > alternative > > treatment, here > > > are a couple of forum threads on the topic, with > some > > users using up > > > to 5X the proper dose of Excel, every 3 days. > > > > > > > > > http://www.aquaticplantcentral.com/forumapc/algae/3806-flourish-excel-got-ri > > d-all-my.html (25 page thread) > > > > > > SeaChem's official reply. > > > http://www.seachem.com/support/forums/showthread.php?t=682 > > > > > > The top FAQ on this page is another of SeaChem's > > official replies. > > > http://www.seachem.com/support/FAQs/FlourishExcel.html > > > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://goldlenny.blogspot.com/>  (Links to > > any articles > > > referenced in above reply are listed on the > right > > side, alphabetically > > > under Labels and also under Archives by Year, > Month) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] > > > On > > > Behalf Of bill 1433 > > > Sent: Monday, September 21, 2009 8:40 AM > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Black Algae Problem > > > > > > Hi Len, > > >  > > > \\Steve// also suggested this BUT, even with the > links > > you > > > sent (some dated) > > > it appears that there is great controversy over > > dosage. > > >  > > > The fish in the tank are 9 rams at 5 months old > and 3 > > Cory > > > cats.  Those Rams > > > were a long time coming and I really don't want > > anything to > > > happen to them. > > >  > > > On the other hand, some for other groups mention > the > > use of > > > SeaChem's Excel > > > but again, nobody seems to have an dosage level > for > > > positive results. > > > Looking at their web-site they do mention this > on > > their > > > support page but > > > since this is a by-pass type of reaction they are > not > > being > > > specific as to > > > dosage either.  Unless they just mean to use > the > > product > > > by its instructions > > > on the bottle to boost carbon for plants. > > Information so > > > far has been "ify" > > > at best.  I don't want to hurt those Rams. > > >  > > > Bill--where Rams Rule! > > > > > > --- On Mon, 9/21/09, Lenny V. aka GoldLenny > <GoldLenny@...> > > > wrote: > > > > > > > From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@...> > > > > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Black Algae > Problem > > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > > > Date: Monday, September 21, 2009, 1:29 AM > Bill, > > > > > > > > If I recall correctly, you do NOT have any > live > > > plants... > > > > right? > > > > > > > > Here's a thread about using HP for algae > issues, > > > including suggested > > > > dosages, etc. > > > > > > > > http://www.thekrib.com/Plants/Algae/hydrogen-peroxide.html > > > > > > > > And an article. > > > > > > > > http://www.malawicichlidhomepage.com/aquainfo/algae_peroxide.html > > > > > > > > The basic safe dose for fish and plants is 1 > oz. > > per > > > 10G per day, with > > > > PWC's between each treatment and do not dose > the > > tank > > > close to the > > > > intake to your filter(s).  If you have > > sensitive > > > shrimp or snails and > > > > someone mentioned oto's, then you might want > to > > halve > > > that dosage. > > > > > > > > One other question, are you sure you have > "black > > > algae".  Algae is > > > > another thing in the aquarium hobby that > suffers > > from > > > common name > > > > abuse so look over these articles and I can > give > > you > > > several other > > > > sites about algae, if you don't have them > > already, for > > > even more > > > > reading. > > > > You'll see what I mean > > > > about the common name problem. > > > > > > > > If your water testing is showing low levels > of > > > nitrates and other > > > > nitrogenous compounds, then you might want > to > > check > > > your phosphate > > > > levels in your source water and tank.  > Also, > > many > > > fish foods are a BIG > > > > source of phosphates so check them also and > > maybe > > > change over to a > > > > lower phosphate level food. > > > > > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://goldlenny.blogspot.com/>  (Links to > > > any articles > > > > referenced in above reply are listed on the > > right > > > side, alphabetically > > > > under Labels and also under Archives by > Year, > > Month) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > > > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] > > > > On > > > > Behalf Of Steve Szabo > > > > Sent: Sunday, September 20, 2009 10:50 PM > > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > > > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Black Algae > Problem > > > > > > > > Bill, > > > > > > > > Get some hydrogen peroxide (normally found > in a > > 3% > > > > solution) and a syringe. > > > > With the syringe, apply the hydrogen > peroxide > > directly > > > to > > > > the black algae. > > > > This should kill the black algae without > harming > > any > > > plants > > > > or fish in the > > > > process, since hydrogen peroxide will break > down > > > fairly > > > > rapidly to the main > > > > components, water and oxygen, > > > > > > > > \\Steve// > > > > > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > > > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] > > > > On > > > > Behalf Of bill 1433 > > > > Sent: Sunday, September 20, 2009 11:23 PM > > > > To: AquaticLife > > > > Subject: [AquaticLife] Black Algae Problem > > > > > > > > I have started getting a black algae problem > that > > I > > > am > > > > trying to live with > > > > but have not been able to conquer.  The > tanks > > are a > > > > standard 29-gallon Ram > > > > tank and a 20-gallon long with Neon Tetras > in > > it. > > > >  > > > > I may have posted this problem a few months > ago > > and > > > have > > > > been living with it > > > > through cleaning and water changes but the > > problem > > > has > > > > never really > > > > completely cleared.  Someone mentioned > the use > > of > > > > Seachem's Excel to kill it > > > > but I'm not sure of proper dosage or how > long. > > All > > > water > > > > tests are fine and > > > > pH is 7.0 > > > > > > > > Bill >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 43525	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 9/21/2009
Subject: Re: Tank upgrade

The simple way to know the volume of a rectangular or square tank is to take the three measurements, LxWxH, then divide that total by 231 to get U.S. Gallons. I also use these sites for ponds, aquariums, round, hex, etc. http://www.fishpondinfo.com/calc.htm http://animal-world.com/encyclo/information/calculate.htm The other thing you can do is combine your two tanks, using the smaller one as a planted tank and the larger one for the Oscar. An overflow valve would create the flow from the upper tank down to the lower tank and the canister filter would pump the water back up to the upper tank. There are some specifics on setting this up to prevent an overflow problem but if you decide to do this, we could help. This would allow you to have a planted tank for natural filtration / water purification, increase the total water volume by adding the two tanks together and the Oscar wouldn't be able to tear apart the planted tank. ;-) If I recall correctly, your other tank is a 20G or 30G... right? Did you ever figure out which one? Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Cee Jaye Sent: Monday, September 21, 2009 6:24 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Tank upgrade Well, in the meantime, I have come across a 40gal (I believe. . . How do I know for sure?) So I figure that he will enjoy the extra room for the time being (My Oscar) I will wash it out good (it was used as a tank & not a reptarium). I kept all the emails regarding how to change to a new tank, so I will follow them;) I will need to purchase a new filter soon, too, to add to his tank to go with his old one. That'll be good because then when the next tank comes along, I will have it hopefully:) LOL And maybe in the bigger tank, I will get the opportunity to get a better pic ) Thank you all for the help again! Tara

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 43526	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 9/21/2009
Subject: Re: Baby mystery snails and question about duckweed.

Oh sure, and I'm sure they'd love my guppy fry even more ;) I think that option is out, LOL. I'll see what I can do about moving the filter outflow, see if that helps. With my vals taking over I'll have to trim them more often though, they are about as invasive as duckweed I swear ;) lol. Amber Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > > > Usually, increased surface agitation will dissuade duckweed from > reproducing. Change the outflow of your filter(s) to move the water > surface > around a lot and it will die off. > > Option 2... borrow a friend's goldfish. They love the stuff. > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right > side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On > Behalf Of Amber Berglund > Sent: Tuesday, September 22, 2009 5:38 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Subject: [AquaticLife] Baby mystery snails and question about duckweed. > > So my baby mystery snails are doing great, starting to show some color > (purple so far). Also Pam the ones I got from you are busy little guys, > they've laid eggs 4 times the last 3 weeks! My 125 gallon is going to be > swarming in mystery snails soon. > So far my dark purple ones have not laid eggs, the eggs that were laid > were > from one of the magenta ones, either Pam's or the ones I got from the > aquabid seller. The babies look more like Pam's purple ones though. > Perhaps my dark purple ones just aren't ready, I know there's enough in > there to have at least one pair off ;) LOL. > Maybe the next batch will be dark purple ones ;) The ones in the 125 > gallon > are growing faster, that tank is usually a couple degrees warmer than the > ones upstairs as I keep the upstairs windows open for a bit of air in the > house, it gets too stuffy if I don't. > Most of my older snails in the 55 gallon upstairs are "napping", they have > been for a couple of weeks, off and on. Perhaps they think it's their > hibernation time? Not sure, either way they're still alive and they > wake up > for food every now and then. > I'm struggling with the duckweed in that tank as well, perhaps they don't > like the duckweed? Other than removing all traces of duckweed so that it > can't reproduce is there a faster way to get rid of it somehow? > LOL. Darn stuff is going to take over my home, when I get done > cleaning the > fish tank I have duckweed everywhere ;) Hubby calls me "swamp thing" > LOL. > > Amber > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 43527	From: Cee Jaye	Date: 9/21/2009
Subject: Re: Tank upgrade

Thanks for the replies guys;) I do believe it is a 20g. I will find a measuring tape & do the measuring in the next couple days. I think he will be surprised at a new home;) I am also planning on getting him rocks to "move around" at his leisure;) I am interested in setting up an overflow. I think that would be "neat" for him to have;) Thanks again for all the great help!! Tara -------Original Message------- From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny Date: 9/21/2009 9:19:53 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Tank upgrade The simple way to know the volume of a rectangular or square tank is to take the three measurements, LxWxH, then divide that total by 231 to get U.S. Gallons. I also use these sites for ponds, aquariums, round, hex, etc. http://www.fishpondinfo.com/calc.htm http://animal-world.com/encyclo/information/calculate.htm The other thing you can do is combine your two tanks, using the smaller one as a planted tank and the larger one for the Oscar. An overflow valve would create the flow from the upper tank down to the lower tank and the canister filter would pump the water back up to the upper tank. There are some specifics on setting this up to prevent an overflow problem but if you decide to do this, we could help. This would allow you to have a planted tank for natural filtration / water purification, increase the total water volume by adding the two tanks together and the Oscar wouldn't be able to tear apart the planted tank. ;-) If I recall correctly, your other tank is a 20G or 30G... right? Did you ever figure out which one? Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Cee Jaye Sent: Monday, September 21, 2009 6:24 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Tank upgrade Well, in the meantime, I have come across a 40gal (I believe. . . How do I know for sure?) So I figure that he will enjoy the extra room for the time being (My Oscar) I will wash it out good (it was used as a tank & not a reptarium). I kept all the emails regarding how to change to a new tank, so I will follow them;) I will need to purchase a new filter soon, too, to add to his tank to go with his old one. That'll be good because then when the next tank comes along, I will have it hopefully:) LOL And maybe in the bigger tank, I will get the opportunity to get a better pic ) Thank you all for the help again! Tara ------------------------------------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the home page. Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com to receive the digest, which includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com for the No E-Mail option where you will still be able to read messages on the group and post replies. Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com to receive individual e-mails Yahoo! Groups Links . [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 43528	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 9/21/2009
Subject: Re: Baby mystery snails and question about duckweed.

If you have a Rena Filstar with the spray bar on this tank, arrange the spray bar so it's just below the water's surface and then you can twist the actual bar (with the holes) so it is pointing up towards the surface a little and this will give you much more surface agitation and push all the duckweed towards the other end of the tank and it should stop reproducing and start dying back. Too bad you don't have any fish that like it. If you know anybody with goldfish, ask them if they'd like any excess that your tank creates. They could come by every day or two and get a cup of duckweed, instead of borrowing a cup of sugar. ;-) If you have an HOB, adjust the height of the HOB by putting a dowel or something (I have used empty Marks-A-Lot's) under the HOB to raise it slightly until you get more surface agitation. This can also be done by lowering the water level but I like to keep the most water possible in a tank. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Amber Berglund Sent: Tuesday, September 22, 2009 9:38 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Baby mystery snails and question about duckweed. Oh sure, and I'm sure they'd love my guppy fry even more ;) I think that option is out, LOL. I'll see what I can do about moving the filter outflow, see if that helps. With my vals taking over I'll have to trim them more often though, they are about as invasive as duckweed I swear ;) lol. Amber Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > > > Usually, increased surface agitation will dissuade duckweed from > reproducing. Change the outflow of your filter(s) to move the water > surface around a lot and it will die off. > > Option 2... borrow a friend's goldfish. They love the stuff. > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> (Links to any articles referenced in > above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels > and also under Archives by Year, Month) > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On Behalf Of Amber Berglund > Sent: Tuesday, September 22, 2009 5:38 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Subject: [AquaticLife] Baby mystery snails and question about duckweed. > > So my baby mystery snails are doing great, starting to show some color > (purple so far). Also Pam the ones I got from you are busy little > guys, they've laid eggs 4 times the last 3 weeks! My 125 gallon is > going to be swarming in mystery snails soon. > So far my dark purple ones have not laid eggs, the eggs that were laid > were from one of the magenta ones, either Pam's or the ones I got from > the aquabid seller. The babies look more like Pam's purple ones > though. > Perhaps my dark purple ones just aren't ready, I know there's enough > in there to have at least one pair off ;) LOL. > Maybe the next batch will be dark purple ones ;) The ones in the 125 > gallon are growing faster, that tank is usually a couple degrees > warmer than the ones upstairs as I keep the upstairs windows open for > a bit of air in the house, it gets too stuffy if I don't. > Most of my older snails in the 55 gallon upstairs are "napping", they > have been for a couple of weeks, off and on. Perhaps they think it's > their hibernation time? Not sure, either way they're still alive and > they wake up for food every now and then. > I'm struggling with the duckweed in that tank as well, perhaps they > don't like the duckweed? Other than removing all traces of duckweed so > that it can't reproduce is there a faster way to get rid of it somehow? > LOL. Darn stuff is going to take over my home, when I get done > cleaning the fish tank I have duckweed everywhere ;) Hubby calls me > "swamp thing" > LOL. > > Amber

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 43529	From: bill 1433	Date: 9/21/2009
Subject: Re: Black Algae Problem

Sorry Len, None of the above. It could be like dark blue green or once was. It just sits there and if wiped off or distrubed, its like a small sheet floating around the tank. Bill --- On Mon, 9/21/09, Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@...> wrote: > From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@...> > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Black Algae Problem > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Date: Monday, September 21, 2009, 8:38 PM > Bill, > > Did you use a particular website in determining the common > name of your > algae?  I often see names like Black Algae, Black > Brush Algae, etc., thrown > around and without pictures, it's tough to know what a > particular site or > fish keeper may be talking about. > > Here's that MalawiCichlid page about Hydrogen Peroxide and > the top few > pictures show "Black Algae".  Is this what you have? > http://www.malawicichlidhomepage.com/aquainfo/algae_peroxide.html > > Other sites describe "Black Algae" as sheets of dark green > to blackish > looking slimy algae when they are probably talking about > BGA - Blue Green > Algae - Cyanobacteria. > http://badmanstropicalfish.com/mb/mb16.html > > AmericanAquariumProducts, a reliable site, has this picture > of Black Beard > Algae. > http://www.americanaquariumproducts.com/images/graphics/bbalgae2.jpg > > Anyhow, let us know what you have so we can be sure we're > all on the same > page... so to speak. > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed > on the right > side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives > by Year, Month) > > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] > On > Behalf Of Amber Berglund > Sent: Tuesday, September 22, 2009 5:16 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Black Algae Problem > > I have been told word of mouth that Platy's and Guppy's > will nibble on the > black beard algae, but only if you practically starve them > ;) LOL. > So basically it's pointless to try getting a fish that eats > the algae as > they will always prefer the food you feed them over the > algae growing in the > tank ;) I have seen my guppy's and platy's nibble on it, > but not all the > time, usually when they're foraging for food they will > "taste test" the > algae too. > > Amber > > bill 1433 wrote: > >  > > > > Check on the algae eater but far as I know, none eat > the black stuff. > > Your right, i've got to figure out the "Y" part. > Lights on 10 to 12 > > but they are standard tubes, 17watts each for the 20 > and 29. > > > > Food? Very high protein stuff from Ken's up in Mass. > > Fish love it. > > > > Bill > > > > --- On Mon, 9/21/09, Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@... > > > <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com>> wrote: > > > > > From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@... > > <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com>> > > > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Black Algae Problem > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > Date: Monday, September 21, 2009, 1:28 PM I guess > the SeaChem > > > Flourish Excel might be your preferred choice... > BUT... > > > remember that if you do not figure out the cause > and fix the cause, > > > it will simply return, so you still have to > figure out the cause. > > > > > > Presuming you are keeping any cycling issues in > check and thus > > > keeping nitrates at a low enough level, below > 20ppm, then I would > > > highly suspect either too much lighting (how long > do you leave them > > > on each day and how much lighting do you have?) > or direct sunlight > > > or other nutrients (mainly > > > phosphates) that you may be getting from your > well water or from > > > many foods that list phosphorous percentages > (I've seen many that > > > have MUCH higher levels than others). > > > > > > I'm looking at three of my store bought foods > right now.  Omega One > > > Medium Goldfish Pellets lists "Min. Phosphorous > (0.5%)".  I'm not > > > sure why it's in brackets ( ), as the other > analysis levels are not > > > in brackets... could this mean negative???, I > have to check with > > > Omega One.  My Hikari Algae Wafers has > "Guaranteed Analysis" as > > > "Phosphorous min 0.7%" but then in a separate > section called > > > "Typical Analysis", it has "Phosphorous > 1.4%".  My Hagen Nutrafin > > > Max Goldfish Flake Food has "Phosphorous min > 0.5%, max 0.9%". > > > > > > I've seen other foods where they "advertise" on > the package of > > > having less than 3% phosphorous or something like > that, which means > > > they are simply taking advantage of the > uninformed as those levels > > > of phosphorous are 3X to 6X the levels of the > three foods I just > > > listed and even the Hikari Algae Wafers has > nearly 2X to 3X more > > > than the other two. > > > > > > As usual with store bought foods, check the > ingredients. > > > > > > Last but not least, if you have bioload room in > the tanks and cannot > > > figure out the cause of the algae, you might want > to consider a > > > small algae eater. > > > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > (Links to any articles referenced in above reply > are listed on the > > > right side, alphabetically under Labels and also > under Archives by > > > Year, Month) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] > > > On > > > Behalf Of bill 1433 > > > Sent: Monday, September 21, 2009 11:48 AM > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Black Algae Problem > > > > > > Len, > > > > > > I understand what your trying to say and thanks > for the help but the > > > problem is the stuff is everywhere.  Not > real heavy and can usually > > > just be wiped off with the clean cloth, the > problems come in at the > > > "where" part. > > > > > > For instance pieces of gravel, not all mind you > just some, you know, > > > so you'll notice it! > > > > > > What I need is a way to dose the whole tank at > once without having > > > to worry about checking for survivors when I'm > done.  The hp seems > > > to infer direct contact.  Working with a > syringe it would probably > > > take me to Christmas to get the whole tank done > by this method, > > > which is why I'm looking at Seachem. > > > Now if there was some way of using the HP in this > method it would be > > > great but most articles seem to infer this direct > contact approach. > > > > > > Thanks, Bill > > > > > > > > > > > > --- On Mon, 9/21/09, Lenny V. aka GoldLenny > <GoldLenny@... > > <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com>> > > > wrote: > > > > > > > From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@... > > <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com>> > > > > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Black Algae > Problem > > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > Date: Monday, September 21, 2009, 12:21 PM I > know > > > TheKrib's thread is > > > > from late 1990's - early 2000's but IT is > some of the > > > best info out > > > > there on the net.  EVERY forum thread > that I've ever > > > seen in any other > > > > forum still refers to TheKrib's thread as > THE guide > > > for using Hydrogen > > > > Peroxide.  I know the dosages are or > can be confusing > > > in that thread > > > > as that was raw data compiled by posting > around 20 > > > experienced replies > > > > to make that page, which is why I included > the one > > > paragraph about > > > > what the safe dosage was, as I know it from > reading > > > many other forum > > > > threads over the years and using it myself > in the > > > past. > > > > > > > > 1 oz. per 10G has been used on tanks with > fry but if > > > you are more > > > > concerned, halve that dosage.  Do the > dosing during > > > the day so the > > > > lights stay on for a while after the dose as > light > > > helps to break down > > > > the HP faster.  Since you are using a > syringe (minus > > > needle) to apply > > > > the HP, it's the direct contact of the HP on > the algae > > > that does the > > > > job and then the HP breaks down into water > and > > > oxygen.  Do a PWC the > > > > next day (or even be prepared to do a PWC > after dosing > > > if your fish > > > > are showing any signs of distress but the 1 > oz. > > > > per 10G should be OK.  1 oz. equals > around 30ml > > > (actually 29.57ml if > > > > you have a highly calibrated syringe... > lol). > > > > > > > > In TheKrib's page, there were people who > experimented > > > with using as > > > > much as 60ml per 10G (2 oz. per 10G) which > was found > > > to cause issues > > > > for sensitive snails and ghost shrimp and > some fish. > > > Others would > > > > dose with their filters off, worried about > the HP > > > causing harm to the > > > > filters, but that could also cause problems > as it did > > > not > > > > disperse/dilute the HP fast enough in the > water > > > column.  Just leave > > > > your filters running BUT do not squirt the > HP close > > > enough to a filter > > > > intake.  If you need to dose near the > filter, unplug > > > it for a moment, > > > > do the dose, use something to stir up the > water in > > > that area, then > > > > turn the filter back on.  Leave the > lights on for > > > several hours after > > > > using HP.  Do the PWC the next day and > dose again as > > > needed. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > As far as the Excel, which is an EXPENSIVE > alternative > > > treatment, here > > > > are a couple of forum threads on the topic, > with some > > > users using up > > > > to 5X the proper dose of Excel, every 3 > days. > > > > > > > > > > > > > http://www.aquaticplantcentral.com/forumapc/algae/3806-flourish-excel- > > got-ri > > <http://www.aquaticplantcentral.com/forumapc/algae/3806-flourish-excel > > -got-ri> > > > d-all-my.html (25 page thread) > > > > > > > > SeaChem's official reply. > > > > http://www.seachem.com/support/forums/showthread.php?t=682 > > <http://www.seachem.com/support/forums/showthread.php?t=682> > > > > > > > > The top FAQ on this page is another of > SeaChem's > > > official replies. > > > > http://www.seachem.com/support/FAQs/FlourishExcel.html > > <http://www.seachem.com/support/FAQs/FlourishExcel.html> > > > > > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> (Links > to > > > any articles > > > > referenced in above reply are listed on the > right > > > side, alphabetically > > > > under Labels and also under Archives by > Year, Month) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] > > > > On > > > > Behalf Of bill 1433 > > > > Sent: Monday, September 21, 2009 8:40 AM > > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Black Algae > Problem > > > > > > > > Hi Len, > > > >  > > > > \\Steve// also suggested this BUT, even with > the links > > > you > > > > sent (some dated) > > > > it appears that there is great controversy > over > > > dosage. > > > >  > > > > The fish in the tank are 9 rams at 5 months > old and 3 > > > Cory > > > > cats.  Those Rams > > > > were a long time coming and I really don't > want > > > anything to > > > > happen to them. > > > >  > > > > On the other hand, some for other groups > mention the > > > use of > > > > SeaChem's Excel > > > > but again, nobody seems to have an dosage > level for positive > > > > results. > > > > Looking at their web-site they do mention > this on > > > their > > > > support page but > > > > since this is a by-pass type of reaction > they are not > > > being > > > > specific as to > > > > dosage either.  Unless they just mean > to use the > > > product > > > > by its instructions > > > > on the bottle to boost carbon for plants. > > > Information so > > > > far has been "ify" > > > > at best.  I don't want to hurt those > Rams. > > > >  > > > > Bill--where Rams Rule! > > > > > > > > --- On Mon, 9/21/09, Lenny V. aka GoldLenny > <GoldLenny@... > > <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com>> > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@... > > <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com>> > > > > > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Black Algae > Problem > > > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > Date: Monday, September 21, 2009, 1:29 > AM Bill, > > > > > > > > > > If I recall correctly, you do NOT have > any live > > > > plants... > > > > > right? > > > > > > > > > > Here's a thread about using HP for > algae issues, > > > > including suggested > > > > > dosages, etc. > > > > > > > > > > http://www.thekrib.com/Plants/Algae/hydrogen-peroxide.html > > <http://www.thekrib.com/Plants/Algae/hydrogen-peroxide.html> > > > > > > > > > > And an article. > > > > > > > > > > > > http://www.malawicichlidhomepage.com/aquainfo/algae_peroxide.html > > <http://www.malawicichlidhomepage.com/aquainfo/algae_peroxide.html> > > > > > > > > > > The basic safe dose for fish and plants > is 1 oz. > > > per > > > > 10G per day, with > > > > > PWC's between each treatment and do not > dose the > > > tank > > > > close to the > > > > > intake to your filter(s).  If you > have > > > sensitive > > > > shrimp or snails and > > > > > someone mentioned oto's, then you might > want to > > > halve > > > > that dosage. > > > > > > > > > > One other question, are you sure you > have "black > > > > algae".  Algae is > > > > > another thing in the aquarium hobby > that suffers > > > from > > > > common name > > > > > abuse so look over these articles and I > can give > > > you > > > > several other > > > > > sites about algae, if you don't have > them > > > already, for > > > > even more > > > > > reading. > > > > > You'll see what I mean > > > > > about the common name problem. > > > > > > > > > > If your water testing is showing low > levels of > > > > nitrates and other > > > > > nitrogenous compounds, then you might > want to > > > check > > > > your phosphate > > > > > levels in your source water and > tank.  Also, > > > many > > > > fish foods are a BIG > > > > > source of phosphates so check them also > and > > > maybe > > > > change over to a > > > > > lower phosphate level food. > > > > > > > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > > > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> (Links > to > > > > any articles > > > > > referenced in above reply are listed on > the > > > right > > > > side, alphabetically > > > > > under Labels and also under Archives by > Year, > > > Month) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] > > > > > On > > > > > Behalf Of Steve Szabo > > > > > Sent: Sunday, September 20, 2009 10:50 > PM > > > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Black Algae > Problem > > > > > > > > > > Bill, > > > > > > > > > > Get some hydrogen peroxide (normally > found in a > > > 3% > > > > > solution) and a syringe. > > > > > With the syringe, apply the hydrogen > peroxide > > > directly > > > > to > > > > > the black algae. > > > > > This should kill the black algae > without harming > > > any > > > > plants > > > > > or fish in the > > > > > process, since hydrogen peroxide will > break down > > > > fairly > > > > > rapidly to the main > > > > > components, water and oxygen, > > > > > > > > > > \\Steve// > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] > > > > > On > > > > > Behalf Of bill 1433 > > > > > Sent: Sunday, September 20, 2009 11:23 > PM > > > > > To: AquaticLife > > > > > Subject: [AquaticLife] Black Algae > Problem > > > > > > > > > > I have started getting a black algae > problem that > > > I > > > > am > > > > > trying to live with > > > > > but have not been able to > conquer.  The tanks > > > are a > > > > > standard 29-gallon Ram > > > > > tank and a 20-gallon long with Neon > Tetras in > > > it. > > > > >  > > > > > I may have posted this problem a few > months ago > > > and > > > > have > > > > > been living with it > > > > > through cleaning and water changes but > the > > > problem > > > > has > > > > > never really > > > > > completely cleared.  Someone > mentioned the use > > > of > > > > > Seachem's Excel to kill it > > > > > but I'm not sure of proper dosage or > how long. > > > All > > > > water > > > > > tests are fine and > > > > > pH is 7.0 > > > > > > > > > > Bill > > > > > > > > > > > > ------------------------------------ > > > > > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it > when replying, > > > Thank You. > > > > ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> > > > ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , > .·´¯`·..><((((º> > > > PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT > that is NOT > > > important to the reply & if CHANGING the > TOPIC of the original > > > message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new > subject (was re: old > > > subject)" <- > <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. > > > , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. > > > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this > matter. > > > > > > If you do not want all of the groups emails, > instead of > > > unsubscribing, you can change your delivery > option by clicking on > > > "Edit My Membership" on the home page. > > > > > > Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com > > <mailto:aquaticlife-digest%40yahoogroups.com> > > > to receive the digest, which includes up to 25 > posts at a time in a > > > single email > > > > > > Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com > > <mailto:aquaticlife-nomail%40yahoogroups.com> > > > for the No E-Mail option where you will still be > able to read > > > messages on the group and post replies. > > > > > > Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com > > <mailto:aquaticlife-normal%40yahoogroups.com> > > > to receive individual e-mails.Yahoo! Groups > Links > > > > > > > > >     mailto:AquaticLife-fullfeatured@yahoogroups.com > > > <mailto:AquaticLife-fullfeatured%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ------------------------------------ > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when > replying, Thank You. > ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> > ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> > PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is > NOT important to > the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original > message MODIFY the SUBJECT > LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- > <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. > , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. > > If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of > unsubscribing, you > can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My > Membership" on the > home page.  > > Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com > to receive the digest, which > includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email > > Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com > for the No E-Mail option where > you will still be able to read messages on the group and > post replies. > > Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com > to receive individual > e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > ------------------------------------ > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when > replying, Thank You. > ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> > ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> > PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is > NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of > the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new > subject (was re: old subject)" <- > <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. > , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. > > If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of > unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by > clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the home page.  > > Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com > to receive the digest, which includes up to 25 posts at a > time in a single email > > Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com > for the No E-Mail option where you will still be able to > read messages on the group and post replies. > > Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com > to receive individual e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links > > >     mailto:AquaticLife-fullfeatured@yahoogroups.com > > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 43530	From: bill 1433	Date: 9/21/2009
Subject: Re: Black Algae Problem

No, no fuzz just black and sits there and grows in tank seams, behind the heater, it seems to be in places that are no lit well even though the light is a 17 watt tube. If any of that helps? Its not hairy like the photo's on the links Len sent. Bill --- On Tue, 9/22/09, Amber Berglund <arberglund@...> wrote: > From: Amber Berglund <arberglund@...> > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Black Algae Problem > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Date: Tuesday, September 22, 2009, 6:48 PM > That was my thought too Bill, but I > thought you might get it, since > Steve was talking to you ;) LOL. > I'm guessing it's a joke of some sort, knowing Steve ;) > hehe. > > If it makes you feel better Bill my 125 gallon tank has a > ton of black > beard algae, and it's like glue when it grows on something, > I have to > scrape it off with a fingernail to get it to come off, and > it takes > several tries. > Not sure if you have the same type of algae or not. Does it > look like a > fuzzy black carpet and it's really hard to remove from > ornaments? > I tend to suck it up with the gravel vac if it's stuck to > bits of gravel > ;) (not the python as it doesn't make it all the way > upstairs, yes I > know odd arrangement for the python but my lower faucet > doesn't have > enough water pressure to run the python it doesn't create a > suction at all). > > Amber > > bill 1433 wrote: > >  > > > > CSS? > > > > Bill > > > > --- On Mon, 9/21/09, Steve Szabo <steve@... > > > <mailto:steve%40familyszabo.com>> wrote: > > > > > From: Steve Szabo <steve@... > > > <mailto:steve%40familyszabo.com>> > > > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Black Algae Problem > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > Date: Monday, September 21, 2009, 4:44 PM > > > Ken seems to sell good food from the > > > reports that I have received. I have never heard > it be > > > mentioned along with algae as a causative agent. > > > > > > I'd say that what you experienced, Gold One, is > probably an > > > artifact of the use of CSS. > > > > > > \\Steve// > > > > > > ________________________________ > > > > > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > on behalf of Lenny V. aka GoldLenny > > > Sent: Mon 9/21/2009 2:24 PM > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Black Algae Problem > > > > > > > > > > > > I do not know much about "Ken's up in Mass" so I > Googled > > > and found this, > > > http://kensfish.com <http://kensfish.com> <http://kensfish.com/ > > <http://kensfish.com/>> , and this page > > > on their Ken's Premium Flake Food, > > > http://kensfish.com/kensflake1.html, > > <http://kensfish.com/kensflake1.html,> > does not list the > > > phosphorous content > > > (You might want to email them and ask about the > phosphorous > > > content) > > > > > > Well, that was weird.... I did a copy/paste of > what I could > > > "see" on the > > > above page, which was the next four paragraphs > but when I > > > pasted it here, a > > > LOT more info showed up on other products as > well. > > > I've never seen this > > > happen before but I'll leave it anyhow. > > > > > > (START OF COPY/PASTE) > > > KENS PREMIUM TROPICAL FISH FLAKE: > > > > > > EXTRA STABILIZED VITAMIN C AND FRESH FISH OIL > UPGRADE THIS > > > COMPLETE DIET. > > > FOR FRESHWATER AND MARINE FISH. > > > > > > INGREDIENTS: FISH MEAL, BREWERS DRIED YEAST, SOY > FLOUR. OAT > > > FLOUR, CORN > > > GLUTEN MEAL, SHRIMP MEAL, DRIED PLANKTON, DRIED > SPIRULINA > > > ALGAE, DRIED KELP, > > > LECITHIN, VITAMIN SUPPLEMENTS A, D3, B12, BIOTIN, > THIAMINE > > > (SOURCE OF > > > VITAMIN B1), NATURAL COLORING, ASCOROBIC ACID ( > SOURCE OF > > > VITAMIN C). > > > > > > GUARANTEED ANALYSIS: CRUDE PROTEIN 44.0% MIN., > CRUDE FAT > > > 9.0%MIN., CRUDE > > > FIBER 1.2% MAX., MOISTURE 9.0% MAX. ALL NATURAL > > > INGREDIENTS. NO > > > PRESERVATIVES. > > > > > > (THIS WAS SUPPOSED TO BE THE END OF THE > COPY/PASTE BUT SEE > > > DOWN BELOW MY SIG > > > FOR MORE INFO THAT SHOWED UP WITH THE PASTE, AND > I STILL DO > > > NOT KNOW WHY... > > > MAYBE \\STEVE// HAS SEEN THIS BEFORE) > > > > > > Anyhow, as you can see, no mention of > Phosphorous > > > content.  I'm not so sure > > > it's as "premium" as it claims.  The > ingredients look > > > very similar to the > > > ingredients on many of the "cheap" fish > foods.  Other > > > than the "Fish Meal" > > > as the first ingredient, the next four are just > fillers, > > > IMO, before it > > > returns to what looks like decent ingredients > again, like > > > the "Dried > > > Plankton, Dried Spirulina Algae, Dried Kelp" and > then it > > > goes into the > > > vitamins section. > > > > > > For comparison, here's the ingredients on my > Omega One > > > Goldfish Pellets > > > (Medium): > > > http://www.omegasea.net/medium_goldfish_pellets.html > > <http://www.omegasea.net/medium_goldfish_pellets.html> > > > INGREDIENTS: Whole Salmon, Whole Herring, Whole > Shrimp, > > > Wheat Flour, Wheat > > > Gluten, Fresh Kelp, Soy Flour, Astaxanthin, > > > L-Ascorbyl-2-Phosphate (Source > > > of Vitamin C), Natural and Artificial Colors, > Vitamin A > > > Acetate, Vitamin D3 > > > Supplement, Vitamin E Supplement, Vitamin B12 > Supplement, > > > Riboflavin, > > > Niacin, Pantothenic Acid, Folic Acid, Biotin, > Inositol, > > > Tocopherol > > > (Preservative), Ethoxyquin (Preservative). > > > > > > Yes, http://www.OmegaSea.net <http://www.OmegaSea.net> > > <http://www.omegasea.net/ <http://www.omegasea.net/>> , makers of > > Omega One fish > > > foods, does have the > > > "Wheat Flour", "Wheat Gluten" and "Soy Flour" > fillers but > > > they are the 3rd > > > and 4th and 6th ingredients, not the 2nd, 3rd, > 4th and 5th > > > ingredients. > > > Further, "Fish Meal", the first ingredient in > Ken's, is a > > > nice way of saying > > > ground up fish by-products, whereas the Omega One > has > > > "Whole Salmon, Whole > > > Herring, Whole Shrimp" listed as the 1st, 2nd and > 3rd > > > ingredients. > > > > > > Now, all this said, I'm certainly NOT saying that > Ken's is > > > a bad product, as > > > it's very similar to the Nutrafin Max Goldfish > Flakes which > > > has "Fish Meal, > > > Corn Meal, Wheat Flour, Soy Flour, Oat Meal, > Squid Meal, > > > Fish Liver > > > Meal...." as the primary ingredients in it and it > is also > > > listed as a > > > "premium" food according to Hagen... but my > preference is > > > to get away from > > > foods that consist of too many un-natural > products like the > > > flour based > > > fillers that make up so many of the ingredients > in our pet > > > foods. > > > > > > After all, when I go to the store and buy Green > Peas, even > > > the el cheapo > > > generic canned ones, I DO NOT want wheat gluten, > soy flour > > > or any other > > > kinds of flour's listed in the ingredients... > just "Green > > > Peas" and maybe > > > some water and probably salt and preservatives. > > > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> <http://goldlenny.blogspot.com/ > > <http://goldlenny.blogspot.com/>> > > > (Links to any articles referenced in above reply > are listed > > > on the right > > > side, alphabetically under Labels and also under > Archives > > > by Year, Month) > > > > > > > > > (HERE'S THE OTHER STUFF THAT COPY/PASTED FROM THE > KEN'S > > > PAGE WHEN I ONLY > > > COPY/PASTED FOUR PARAGRAPHS... STILL NOT SURE WHY > THE REST > > > OF THIS SHOWED > > > UP) > > > > > > KENS PREMIUM CHICKEN LIVER FLAKE: > > > > > > EXTRA STABILIZED VITAMIN C AND FRESH FISH OIL > UPGRADE THIS > > > COMPLETE DIET > > > ALONG WITH THE MAIN INGREDIENT OF FRESH CHICKEN > LIVER. THE > > > HIGH PROTEIN > > > MAKES THIS EXCELLENT FOR FRY AS WELL AS GUPPIES > AND OTHER > > > LIVE BEARERS. > > > > > > INGREDIENTS: CHICKEN LIVER, FISH MEAL, BREWERS > DRIED YEAST, > > > SOY FLOUR. OAT > > > FLOUR, CORN GLUTEN MEAL, SHRIMP MEAL, DRIED > PLANKTON, DRIED > > > SPIRULINA ALGAE, > > > DRIED KELP, LECITHIN, VITAMIN SUPPLEMENTS A, D3, > B12, > > > BIOTIN, THIAMINE > > > (SOURCE OF VITAMIN B1), NATURAL COLORING, > ASCOROBIC ACID ( > > > SOURCE OF VITAMIN > > > C). > > > > > > GUARANTEED ANALYSIS: CRUDE PROTEIN 48.0% MIN., > CRUDE FAT > > > 9.0%MIN., CRUDE > > > FIBER 5.0% MAX., MOISTURE 9.0% MAX. ALL NATURAL > > > INGREDIENTS, EXCEPT SOME > > > ARTIFICIAL COLORING. NO PRESERVATIVES. > > > FOR PHOTO: > > >   1/2 LB $4.25      >     > > >           1 LB > $8.00    > > >              >   > > >   5 LB > > > $35.00 > > >        > > >  > > > > > > KENS PREMIUM MARINE FLAKE: > > > > > > THIS PREMIUM FLAKE IS EXCELLENT FOR MARINE FISH. > GREAT AS > > > USING FOR A > > > STARTER FLAKE FOR YOUNG FRESHWATER FRY AS WELL. > > > > > > INGREDIENTS: WHITE FISH MEAL & WHITE FISH > PROTEIN > > > CONCENTRATE. OAT, WHEAT, > > > SOYBEEN MEAL FLOURS, SHRIMP, PLANKTON & KRILL > MEAL, > > > FISH OIL, LECITHIN, > > > VITAMIN MINERAL SUPPLEMENT, SPIRULINA, FROZEN > BRINE SHRIMP, > > > KELP MEAL, > > > METHIONINE.ASCORBIC ACID (SOURCE OF VITAMIN > C).NATURAL AND > > > SOME ARTIFICIAL > > > COLORING. > > > > > > GUARANTEED ANALYSIS: CRUDE PROTEIN 46.0% MIN., > CRUDE FAT > > > 5.0% MIN., CRUDE > > > FIBER 3.0% MAX., MOISTURE 8.0% MAX., ALL NATURAL > > > INGREDIENTS, EXCEPT FOR > > > SOME ARTIFICIAL COLORING. NO PRESERVATIVES. > > > > > >  > > > > > >   1/2 LB $4.25      >     > > >           1 LB > $7.95    > > >              >   > > >   5 LB > > > $37.75 > > >   FOR PHOTO: > > >      KENS PREMIUM SPIRULINA + > FLAKE > > > WITH GARLIC & PAPRIKA: > > > > > > THIS IS REMARKABLE FORTIFIED FOOD THAT WILL KEEP > YOUR > > > TROPHEUS AND OTHER > > > FISH IN TOP FORM.THIS CONTAINS A HIGH AMOUNT OF > SPIRULINA > > > AND THE ADDED > > > INGREDIENT OF GARLIC & PAPRIKA! > > > > > > INGREDIENTS: FISH MEAL, DRIED BREWERS YEAST, SOY > FLOUR, > > > WHEAT FLOUR, OAT > > > FLOUR, CORN GLUTEN MEAL, DRIED SPIRULINA ALGEA, > GARLIC, > > > SHRIMP MEAL, DRIED > > > KRILL, FISH OIL, PAPRIKA, LECITHIN, VITAMIN > SUPPLEMENTS A, > > > D3, B12, BIOTIN, > > > NATURAL COLORING, ASCORBIC ACID (SOURCE OF > VITAMIN C). > > > > > > GUARANTEED ANALYSIS: CRUDE PROTEIN 45.0% MIN., > CRUDE FAT > > > 4.0% MAX., CRUDE > > > FIBER 3.2% MAX., MOISTURE 8.0% MAX. ALL NATURAL > > > INGREDIENTS, EXCEPT FOR SOME > > > ARTIFICIAL COLORING. NO PRESERVATIVES. > > >   1/2 LB $4.95      >     > > >           1 LB > $9.75    > > >              >   > > >   5 LB > > > $47.75 > > > FOR PHOTO: > > >  > > >  > > > > > >       KENS PREMIUM SUPER > BRINE SHRIMP > > > FLAKE: > > > > > > THIS IS EXCELLENT FOR GROWTH DUE TO THE HIGH > AMOUNTS OF > > > CRUDE PROTEIN. > > > EXCELLENT DIGESTABILITY AND HIGH AMOUNTS BRINE > SHRIMP MAKE > > > UP THIS HIGH > > > GRADE FORMULA. > > > > > > INGREDIENTS: FISH MEAL, SHRIMP MEAL, SOY FLOUR, > SOY PROTEIN > > > ISOLATE, FISH > > > PROTEIN CONCENTRATE, BREWERS DRIED YEAST, CORN > STARCH, SOY > > > LECITHIN, DRIED > > > BRINE SHRIMP, SODIUM ALGINATE, FISH OIL, > MENADIONE > > > DIMETHYIPYRIMIDINOL > > > BISULFATE (SOURCE OF VITAMIN K), D1-ALPHA > TOCOPHERYL > > > ACETATE, INOSITOL, > > > PARAMINO BENZOIC ACID, NIACIN, CALCIUM > PANTOTHENATE, > > > RIBOFLAVIN, BIOTIN, > > > PYRIDOXINE HYDROCHLORIDE, THIAMINE MONONITRATE, > VITAMIN A > > > ACETATE, VITAMIN > > > B12, VITAMIN D3 SUPPLEMENT, SQUIS MEAL, > EMULSIFIER, CHOLINE > > > CHLORIDE, > > > MANGANESE PROTEINATE, ZINC PROTEINATE, COPPER > PROTEINATE, > > > CALCIUM IODATE, > > > IRON PEOTEINATE, COBALT PROTEINATE, CALCIUM > CARBONATE, > > > SODIUM SELENITE, > > > L-ASCORBYL-2POLYPHOSPHATE (SOURCE OF VITAMIN C). > > > > > > GUARANTEED ANALYSIS: CRUDE PROTEIN 50.0% MIN., > CRUDE FAT > > > 12.0% MAX., CRUDE > > > FIBER 3.0% MAX., MOISTURE 10.0% MAX. SOME > ARTIFICIAL > > > COLORING AND > > > PRESERVATIVES. > > > FOR PHOTO: > > >   1/2 LB $4.75      >     > > >           1 LB > $9.25    > > >              >   > > >   5 LB > > > $44.25 > > >        > > >  > > > > > > KENS PREMIUM COLOR FLAKE WITH NATUROSE ADDED: > GREAT FOR > > > ADDING COLOR! > > > NATURE'S OWN COLORING FOOD! BRINGS OUT THE > RADIENT NATURAL > > > COLORS OF YOUR > > > BEST FRESHWATER AND SALTWATER FISH! NOW WITH THE > ADDED > > > INGREDIENT OF > > > NATUROSE FOR ADDED COLOR ENHANCEMENT. > > > > > > INGREDIENTS: FISH MEAL BLEND, SPECIAL MIX: DRIED > PLANKTON, > > > SHRIMP, KRILL AND > > > DRIED SPIRULINA ALGEA, WHEAT GLUTEN MEAL, OAT > FLOUR, > > > BREWERS DRIED YEAST, > > > CAROTENE, NATUROSE, LECITHIN, SOY OIL, FISH OIL, > VITAMIN > > > SUPPLEMENTS, A, D3, > > > B12, BIOTIN, NATURAL & ARTIFICIAL COLORING, > ASCORBIC > > > ACID (SOURCE OF VITAMIN > > > C). > > > > > > GUARANTEED ANALYSIS: CRUDE PROTEIN 44.0% MIN., > CRUDE FAT > > > 12.0% MIN., CRUDE > > > FIBER 8.0% MAX., MOISTURE 8.0% MAX. ALL NATURAL > > > INGREDIENTS. NO > > > PRESERVATIVES. > > > FOR PHOTO: > > >   1/2 LB $4.50      >     > > >           1 LB > $8.75    > > >              >   > > >   5 LB > > > $42.00 > > >        > > >  > > > > > > KENS PREMIUM BEEFHEART FLAKE: > > > > > > EXCELLENT DIET FOR ANGELS AND DISCUS. MADE WITH > REAL > > > BEEFHEARTS TO HELP > > > BRING YOUR FISH INTO FULL SPAWNING CONDITION. > ALSO > > > EXCELLENT FOR OTHER > > > TROPICAL FISH. > > > > > > Main Ingredients: Fish Meal, Wheat Flour, Soy > Flour, Shrimp > > > Meal, Brewers > > > Dried Yeast, Krill Meal, Fish Oil, Soy Lecithin, > Spirulina, > > > Emulsifier, > > > Beefhearts, Choline Chloride, Sorbitol, Propylene > Glycol, > > > Artificial Color, > > > Vitamin A, Vitamin D3 Supplement, d1-Alpha > Tocopheryl > > > Acetate (Vitamin E > > > Supplement), Vitamin B12 Supplement, Riboflavin, > Niacin, > > > Calcium > > > Pantothenate, Menadione Sodium Bisulfite Complex > (source of > > > vitamin K > > > Activity), Folic Acid, Thiamine Mononitrate, > Pyridoxine > > > Hydrochloride, > > > Biotin, Manganese Proteinate, Zinc Proteinate, > Copper > > > Proteinate, Calcium > > > Iodate, Iron Proteinate, Cobolt Proteinate, > Calcium > > > Carbonate, Sodium > > > Selenite, Anise Oil, L-Ascorbyl-2-Polyphosphate > (source or > > > Vitamin C), > > > Xanthophyll, Canthaxanthin, Ethoxyquin, TBHQ > > > (preservative). > > > > > > Guaranteed Analysis: Crude Protein 46.0% Min., > Crude Fat > > > 10.0% Min., Crude > > > Fiber 3.0% Max., Moisture 10.0% Max. > > > FOR PHOTO: > > >   1/2 LB $4.50      >     > > >           1 LB > $8.75    > > >              >   > > >   5 LB > > > $42.00 > > >        > > >  > > > > > > KENS PREMIUM SUPER TROPICAL FLAKE: > > > > > > This is a higher protein general flake diet for > all your > > > tropical fish. This > > > tropical fish flake contains spirulina, krill, > Shrimp meal > > > to aid in > > > coloration. Also contains highly digestible > marine proteins > > > to reduce > > > excreted waste. > > > > > > Ingredients: Fish Meal, Wheat Flour, Soy Flour, > Shrimp > > > Meal, Brewers Dried > > > Yeast, Krill Meal, Soy Lecithin, Fish Oil, > Emulsifier, > > > Choline Chloride, > > > Sorbitol, Propylene Glycol, Artificial Color, > Spirulina, > > > Yeast Extract, > > > Calcium Phosphate, Anise Oil, Xanthophyll > Pigments, > > > L-Ascorbyl-2- > > > Polyphosphate (source of Vitamin C), > Canthaxanthin, > > > Manganese Proteinate, > > > Zinc Proteinate, Copper Proteinate, Calcium > Iodate, Iron > > > Proteinate, Cobalt > > > Proteinate, Calcium Carbonate, Sodium Selenite, > Vitamin A > > > Acetate, Vitamin > > > D3 Supplement, dl-Alpha Tocopheryl Acetate > (Vitamin E > > > Supplement), Vitamin > > > B12 Supplement, Riboflavin Supplement, Niacin, > Calcium > > > Pantothenate, > > > Menadione Sodium Bisulfite Complex (source of > Vitamin K > > > Activity), Folic > > > Acid, Thiamine Mononitrate, Pyridoxine > Hydrochloride, > > > Biotin, Ethoxyquin, > > > TBHQ (preservative). > > > > > > Guaranteed Analysis: Min. Protein 45.0%, Min. > Crude Fat > > > 9.0%, Max Crude > > > Fiber 3.0%, Max Moisture 10.0%, > > > FOR PHOTO: > > >   1/2 LB $4.00      >     > > >           1 LB > $7.15    > > >              >   > > >   5 LB > > > $33.75 > > >        > > >  > > > > > > KENS PREMIUM HATCHERY FLAKE: > > > > > > EXTRA STABILIZED VITAMIN C AND FRESH FISH OIL > UPGRADE THIS > > > COMPLETE DIET. > > > FOR FRESHWATER AND MARINE FISH. > > > > > > INGREDIENTS: FISH MEAL, BREWERS DRIED YEAST, SOY > FLOUR. OAT > > > FLOUR, CORN > > > GLUTEN MEAL, SHRIMP MEAL, DRIED PLANKTON, DRIED > SPIRULINA > > > ALGAE, DRIED KELP, > > > LECITHIN, VITAMIN SUPPLEMENTS A, D3, B12, BIOTIN, > THIAMINE > > > (SOURCE OF > > > VITAMIN B1), NATURAL COLORING, ASCOROBIC ACID ( > SOURCE OF > > > VITAMIN C). > > > > > > GUARANTEED ANALYSIS: CRUDE PROTEIN 44.0% MIN., > CRUDE FAT > > > 9.0%MIN., CRUDE > > > FIBER 1.2% MAX., MOISTURE 9.0% MAX. ALL NATURAL > > > INGREDIENTS. NO > > > PRESERVATIVES. > > > FOR PHOTO: > > >   1/2 LB $3.50      >     > > >           1 LB > $6.25    > > >              >   > > >   5 LB > > > $29.75 > > >        > > >  > > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] > > > On > > > Behalf Of bill 1433 > > > Sent: Monday, September 21, 2009 12:44 PM > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Black Algae Problem > > > > > > Check on the algae eater but far as I know, none > eat the > > > black stuff.  Your > > > right, i've got to figure out the "Y" part.  > Lights on > > > 10 to 12 but they are > > > standard tubes, 17watts each for the 20 and 29. > > > > > > Food?  Very high protein stuff from Ken's up > in Mass. > > > Fish love it. > > > > > > Bill > > > > > > --- On Mon, 9/21/09, Lenny V. aka GoldLenny > <GoldLenny@... > > > <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com>> > > > wrote: > > > > > > > From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@... > > > <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com>> > > > > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Black Algae > Problem > > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > Date: Monday, September 21, 2009, 1:28 PM I > guess the > > > SeaChem Flourish > > > > Excel might be your preferred choice... > BUT... > > > > remember that if you do not figure out the > cause and > > > fix the cause, it > > > > will simply return, so you still have to > figure out > > > the cause. > > > > > > > > Presuming you are keeping any cycling issues > in check > > > and thus keeping > > > > nitrates at a low enough level, below 20ppm, > then I > > > would highly > > > > suspect either too much lighting (how long > do you > > > leave them on each > > > > day and how much lighting do you have?) or > direct > > > sunlight or other > > > > nutrients (mainly > > > > phosphates) that you may be getting from > your well > > > water or from many > > > > foods that list phosphorous percentages > (I've seen > > > many that have MUCH > > > > higher levels than others). > > > > > > > > I'm looking at three of my store bought > foods right > > > now.  Omega One > > > > Medium Goldfish Pellets lists "Min. > Phosphorous > > > (0.5%)".  I'm not sure > > > > why it's in brackets ( ), as the other > analysis levels > > > are not in > > > > brackets... could this mean negative???, I > have to > > > check with Omega > > > > One.  My Hikari Algae Wafers has > "Guaranteed > > > Analysis" as "Phosphorous > > > > min 0.7%" but then in a separate section > called > > > "Typical Analysis", it > > > > has "Phosphorous 1.4%".  My Hagen > Nutrafin Max > > > Goldfish Flake Food has > > > > "Phosphorous min 0.5%, max 0.9%". > > > > > > > > I've seen other foods where they "advertise" > on the > > > package of having > > > > less than 3% phosphorous or something like > that, which > > > means they are > > > > simply taking advantage of the uninformed as > those > > > levels of > > > > phosphorous are 3X to 6X the levels of the > three foods > > > I just listed > > > > and even the Hikari Algae Wafers has nearly > 2X to 3X > > > more than the > > > > other two. > > > > > > > > As usual with store bought foods, check the > > > ingredients. > > > > > > > > Last but not least, if you have bioload room > in the > > > tanks and cannot > > > > figure out the cause of the algae, you might > want to > > > consider a small > > > > algae eater. > > > > > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> <http://goldlenny.blogspot.com/ > > <http://goldlenny.blogspot.com/>>  (Links to > any > > > articles > > > > referenced in above reply are listed on the > right > > > side, alphabetically > > > > under Labels and also under Archives by > Year, Month) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] > > > > On > > > > Behalf Of bill 1433 > > > > Sent: Monday, September 21, 2009 11:48 AM > > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Black Algae > Problem > > > > > > > > Len, > > > > > > > > I understand what your trying to say and > thanks for > > > the > > > > help but the problem > > > > is the stuff is everywhere.  Not real > heavy and > > > can > > > > usually just be wiped > > > > off with the clean cloth, the problems come > in at the > > > > "where" part. > > > > > > > > For instance pieces of gravel, not all mind > you just > > > some, > > > > you know, so > > > > you'll notice it! > > > > > > > > What I need is a way to dose the whole tank > at once > > > without > > > > having to worry > > > > about checking for survivors when I'm > done.  The > > > hp > > > > seems to infer direct > > > > contact.  Working with a syringe it > would > > > probably > > > > take me to Christmas to > > > > get the whole tank done by this method, > which is why > > > I'm > > > > looking at Seachem. > > > > Now if there was some way of using the HP in > this > > > method it > > > > would be great > > > > but most articles seem to infer this direct > contact > > > > approach. > > > > > > > > Thanks, Bill > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > --- On Mon, 9/21/09, Lenny V. aka GoldLenny > <GoldLenny@... > > > <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com>> > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@... > > > <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com>> > > > > > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Black Algae > Problem > > > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > Date: Monday, September 21, 2009, 12:21 > PM I > > > know > > > > TheKrib's thread is > > > > > from late 1990's - early 2000's but IT > is some of > > > the > > > > best info out > > > > > there on the net.  EVERY forum > thread that > > > I've ever > > > > seen in any other > > > > > forum still refers to TheKrib's thread > as THE > > > guide > > > > for using Hydrogen > > > > > Peroxide.  I know the dosages are > or can be > > > confusing > > > > in that thread > > > > > as that was raw data compiled by > posting around > > > 20 > > > > experienced replies > > > > > to make that page, which is why I > included the > > > one > > > > paragraph about > > > > > what the safe dosage was, as I know it > from > > > reading > > > > many other forum > > > > > threads over the years and using it > myself in > > > the > > > > past. > > > > > > > > > > 1 oz. per 10G has been used on tanks > with fry but > > > if > > > > you are more > > > > > concerned, halve that dosage.  Do > the dosing > > > during > > > > the day so the > > > > > lights stay on for a while after the > dose as > > > light > > > > helps to break down > > > > > the HP faster.  Since you are > using a > > > syringe (minus > > > > needle) to apply > > > > > the HP, it's the direct contact of the > HP on the > > > algae > > > > that does the > > > > > job and then the HP breaks down into > water and > > > > oxygen.  Do a PWC the > > > > > next day (or even be prepared to do a > PWC after > > > dosing > > > > if your fish > > > > > are showing any signs of distress but > the 1 oz. > > > > > per 10G should be OK.  1 oz. > equals around > > > 30ml > > > > (actually 29.57ml if > > > > > you have a highly calibrated syringe... > lol). > > > > > > > > > > In TheKrib's page, there were people > who > > > experimented > > > > with using as > > > > > much as 60ml per 10G (2 oz. per 10G) > which was > > > found > > > > to cause issues > > > > > for sensitive snails and ghost shrimp > and some > > > fish. > > > > Others would > > > > > dose with their filters off, worried > about the > > > HP > > > > causing harm to the > > > > > filters, but that could also cause > problems as it > > > did > > > > not > > > > > disperse/dilute the HP fast enough in > the water > > > > column.  Just leave > > > > > your filters running BUT do not squirt > the HP > > > close > > > > enough to a filter > > > > > intake.  If you need to dose near > the > > > filter, unplug > > > > it for a moment, > > > > > do the dose, use something to stir up > the water > > > in > > > > that area, then > > > > > turn the filter back on.  Leave > the lights > > > on for > > > > several hours after > > > > > using HP.  Do the PWC the next day > and dose > > > again as > > > > needed. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > As far as the Excel, which is an > EXPENSIVE > > > alternative > > > > treatment, here > > > > > are a couple of forum threads on the > topic, with > > > some > > > > users using up > > > > > to 5X the proper dose of Excel, every 3 > days. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > http://www.aquaticplantcentral.com/forumapc/algae/3806-flourish-excel-got-ri > > > <http://www.aquaticplantcentral.com/forumapc/algae/3806-flourish-excel-got-ri> > > > > d-all-my.html (25 page thread) > > > > > > > > > > SeaChem's official reply. > > > > > http://www.seachem.com/support/forums/showthread.php?t=682 > > > <http://www.seachem.com/support/forums/showthread.php?t=682> > > > > > > > > > > The top FAQ on this page is another of > SeaChem's > > > > official replies. > > > > > http://www.seachem.com/support/FAQs/FlourishExcel.html > > > <http://www.seachem.com/support/FAQs/FlourishExcel.html> > > > > > > > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > > > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> <http://goldlenny.blogspot.com/ > > <http://goldlenny.blogspot.com/>>  (Links to > > > > any articles > > > > > referenced in above reply are listed on > the > > > right > > > > side, alphabetically > > > > > under Labels and also under Archives by > Year, > > > Month) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] > > > > > On > > > > > Behalf Of bill 1433 > > > > > Sent: Monday, September 21, 2009 8:40 > AM > > > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Black Algae > Problem > > > > > > > > > > Hi Len, > > > > > > > > > > \\Steve// also suggested this BUT, even > with the > > > links > > > > you > > > > > sent (some dated) > > > > > it appears that there is great > controversy over > > > > dosage. > > > > > > > > > > The fish in the tank are 9 rams at 5 > months old > > > and 3 > > > > Cory > > > > > cats.  Those Rams > > > > > were a long time coming and I really > don't want > > > > anything to > > > > > happen to them. > > > > > > > > > > On the other hand, some for other > groups mention > > > the > > > > use of > > > > > SeaChem's Excel > > > > > but again, nobody seems to have an > dosage level > > > for > > > > > positive results. > > > > > Looking at their web-site they do > mention this > > > on > > > > their > > > > > support page but > > > > > since this is a by-pass type of > reaction they are > > > not > > > > being > > > > > specific as to > > > > > dosage either.  Unless they just > mean to use > > > the > > > > product > > > > > by its instructions > > > > > on the bottle to boost carbon for > plants. > > > > Information so > > > > > far has been "ify" > > > > > at best.  I don't want to hurt > those Rams. > > > > > > > > > > Bill--where Rams Rule! > > > > > > > > > > --- On Mon, 9/21/09, Lenny V. aka > GoldLenny > > > <GoldLenny@... > <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com>> > > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny > <GoldLenny@... > > > <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com>> > > > > > > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Black > Algae > > > Problem > > > > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > Date: Monday, September 21, 2009, > 1:29 AM > > > Bill, > > > > > > > > > > > > If I recall correctly, you do NOT > have any > > > live > > > > > plants... > > > > > > right? > > > > > > > > > > > > Here's a thread about using HP for > algae > > > issues, > > > > > including suggested > > > > > > dosages, etc. > > > > > > > > > > > > http://www.thekrib.com/Plants/Algae/hydrogen-peroxide.html > > > <http://www.thekrib.com/Plants/Algae/hydrogen-peroxide.html> > > > > > > > > > > > > And an article. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > http://www.malawicichlidhomepage.com/aquainfo/algae_peroxide.html > > > <http://www.malawicichlidhomepage.com/aquainfo/algae_peroxide.html> > > > > > > > > > > > > The basic safe dose for fish and > plants is 1 > > > oz. > > > > per > > > > > 10G per day, with > > > > > > PWC's between each treatment and > do not dose > > > the > > > > tank > > > > > close to the > > > > > > intake to your filter(s).  If > you have > > > > sensitive > > > > > shrimp or snails and > > > > > > someone mentioned oto's, then you > might want > > > to > > > > halve > > > > > that dosage. > > > > > > > > > > > > One other question, are you sure > you have > > > "black > > > > > algae".  Algae is > > > > > > another thing in the aquarium > hobby that > > > suffers > > > > from > > > > > common name > > > > > > abuse so look over these articles > and I can > > > give > > > > you > > > > > several other > > > > > > sites about algae, if you don't > have them > > > > already, for > > > > > even more > > > > > > reading. > > > > > > You'll see what I mean > > > > > > about the common name problem. > > > > > > > > > > > > If your water testing is showing > low levels > > > of > > > > > nitrates and other > > > > > > nitrogenous compounds, then you > might want > > > to > > > > check > > > > > your phosphate > > > > > > levels in your source water and > tank. > > > Also, > > > > many > > > > > fish foods are a BIG > > > > > > source of phosphates so check them > also and > > > > maybe > > > > > change over to a > > > > > > lower phosphate level food. > > > > > > > > > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > > > > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> <http://goldlenny.blogspot.com/ > > <http://goldlenny.blogspot.com/>>  (Links to > > > > > any articles > > > > > > referenced in above reply are > listed on the > > > > right > > > > > side, alphabetically > > > > > > under Labels and also under > Archives by > > > Year, > > > > Month) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > > > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] > > > > > > On > > > > > > Behalf Of Steve Szabo > > > > > > Sent: Sunday, September 20, 2009 > 10:50 PM > > > > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Black > Algae > > > Problem > > > > > > > > > > > > Bill, > > > > > > > > > > > > Get some hydrogen peroxide > (normally found > > > in a > > > > 3% > > > > > > solution) and a syringe. > > > > > > With the syringe, apply the > hydrogen > > > peroxide > > > > directly > > > > > to > > > > > > the black algae. > > > > > > This should kill the black algae > without > > > harming > > > > any > > > > > plants > > > > > > or fish in the > > > > > > process, since hydrogen peroxide > will break > > > down > > > > > fairly > > > > > > rapidly to the main > > > > > > components, water and oxygen, > > > > > > > > > > > > \\Steve// > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > > > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] > > > > > > On > > > > > > Behalf Of bill 1433 > > > > > > Sent: Sunday, September 20, 2009 > 11:23 PM > > > > > > To: AquaticLife > > > > > > Subject: [AquaticLife] Black Algae > Problem > > > > > > > > > > > > I have started getting a black > algae problem > > > that > > > > I > > > > > am > > > > > > trying to live with > > > > > > but have not been able to > conquer.  The > > > tanks > > > > are a > > > > > > standard 29-gallon Ram > > > > > > tank and a 20-gallon long with > Neon Tetras > > > in > > > > it. > > > > > > > > > > > > I may have posted this problem a > few months > > > ago > > > > and > > > > > have > > > > > > been living with it > > > > > > through cleaning and water changes > but the > > > > problem > > > > > has > > > > > > never really > > > > > > completely cleared.  Someone > mentioned > > > the use > > > > of > > > > > > Seachem's Excel to kill it > > > > > > but I'm not sure of proper dosage > or how > > > long. > > > > All > > > > > water > > > > > > tests are fine and > > > > > > pH is 7.0 > > > > > > > > > > > > Bill > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been > removed] > > > > > > > > > > > > ------------------------------------ > > > > > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it > when > > > replying, Thank You. > > > > ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> > > > ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , > .·´¯`·..><((((º> > > > PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT > that is > > > NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the > TOPIC of > > > the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE > -> i.e. "new > > > subject (was re: old subject)" <- > > > > <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. > > > , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. > > > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this > matter. > > > > > > If you do not want all of the groups emails, > instead of > > > unsubscribing, you can change your delivery > option by > > > clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the home > page. > > > > > > Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com > > > <mailto:aquaticlife-digest%40yahoogroups.com> > > > to receive the digest, which includes up to 25 > posts at a > > > time in a single email > > > > > > Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com > > > <mailto:aquaticlife-nomail%40yahoogroups.com> > > > for the No E-Mail option where you will still be > able to > > > read messages on the group and post replies. > > > > > > Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com > > > <mailto:aquaticlife-normal%40yahoogroups.com> > > > to receive individual e-mails.Yahoo! Groups > Links > > > > > > > > >     mailto:AquaticLife-fullfeatured@yahoogroups.com > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife-fullfeatured%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ------------------------------------ > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when > replying, Thank You. > ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> > ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> > PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is > NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of > the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new > subject (was re: old subject)" <- > <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. > , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. > > If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of > unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by > clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the home page.  > > Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com > to receive the digest, which includes up to 25 posts at a > time in a single email > > Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com > for the No E-Mail option where you will still be able to > read messages on the group and post replies. > > Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com > to receive individual e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links > > >     mailto:AquaticLife-fullfeatured@yahoogroups.com > > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 43531	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 9/21/2009
Subject: Re: Black Algae Problem

Bill, Then it is probably a form of cyanobacteria, more commonly known as blue-green algae. In this case, erythromycin is what you should use to cure it, but this can also harm your nitrification bacteria, so you will need to keep an eye on your tank's nitrogen levels. \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of bill 1433 Sent: Monday, September 21, 2009 11:26 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Black Algae Problem Sorry Len, None of the above. It could be like dark blue green or once was. It just sits there and if wiped off or distrubed, its like a small sheet floating around the tank. Bill --- On Mon, 9/21/09, Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@...> wrote: > From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@...> > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Black Algae Problem > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Date: Monday, September 21, 2009, 8:38 PM > Bill, > > Did you use a particular website in determining the common > name of your > algae?  I often see names like Black Algae, Black > Brush Algae, etc., thrown > around and without pictures, it's tough to know what a > particular site or > fish keeper may be talking about. > > Here's that MalawiCichlid page about Hydrogen Peroxide and > the top few > pictures show "Black Algae".  Is this what you have? > http://www.malawicichlidhomepage.com/aquainfo/algae_peroxide.html > > Other sites describe "Black Algae" as sheets of dark green > to blackish > looking slimy algae when they are probably talking about > BGA - Blue Green > Algae - Cyanobacteria. > http://badmanstropicalfish.com/mb/mb16.html > > AmericanAquariumProducts, a reliable site, has this picture > of Black Beard > Algae. > http://www.americanaquariumproducts.com/images/graphics/bbalgae2.jpg > > Anyhow, let us know what you have so we can be sure we're > all on the same > page... so to speak. > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed > on the right > side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives > by Year, Month) > > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] > On > Behalf Of Amber Berglund > Sent: Tuesday, September 22, 2009 5:16 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Black Algae Problem > > I have been told word of mouth that Platy's and Guppy's > will nibble on the > black beard algae, but only if you practically starve them > ;) LOL. > So basically it's pointless to try getting a fish that eats > the algae as > they will always prefer the food you feed them over the > algae growing in the > tank ;) I have seen my guppy's and platy's nibble on it, > but not all the > time, usually when they're foraging for food they will > "taste test" the > algae too. > > Amber > > bill 1433 wrote: > >  > > > > Check on the algae eater but far as I know, none eat > the black stuff. > > Your right, i've got to figure out the "Y" part. > Lights on 10 to 12 > > but they are standard tubes, 17watts each for the 20 > and 29. > > > > Food? Very high protein stuff from Ken's up in Mass. > > Fish love it. > > > > Bill > > > > --- On Mon, 9/21/09, Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@... > > > <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com>> wrote: > > > > > From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@... > > <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com>> > > > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Black Algae Problem > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > Date: Monday, September 21, 2009, 1:28 PM I guess > the SeaChem > > > Flourish Excel might be your preferred choice... > BUT... > > > remember that if you do not figure out the cause > and fix the cause, > > > it will simply return, so you still have to > figure out the cause. > > > > > > Presuming you are keeping any cycling issues in > check and thus > > > keeping nitrates at a low enough level, below > 20ppm, then I would > > > highly suspect either too much lighting (how long > do you leave them > > > on each day and how much lighting do you have?) > or direct sunlight > > > or other nutrients (mainly > > > phosphates) that you may be getting from your > well water or from > > > many foods that list phosphorous percentages > (I've seen many that > > > have MUCH higher levels than others). > > > > > > I'm looking at three of my store bought foods > right now.  Omega One > > > Medium Goldfish Pellets lists "Min. Phosphorous > (0.5%)".  I'm not > > > sure why it's in brackets ( ), as the other > analysis levels are not > > > in brackets... could this mean negative???, I > have to check with > > > Omega One.  My Hikari Algae Wafers has > "Guaranteed Analysis" as > > > "Phosphorous min 0.7%" but then in a separate > section called > > > "Typical Analysis", it has "Phosphorous > 1.4%".  My Hagen Nutrafin > > > Max Goldfish Flake Food has "Phosphorous min > 0.5%, max 0.9%". > > > > > > I've seen other foods where they "advertise" on > the package of > > > having less than 3% phosphorous or something like > that, which means > > > they are simply taking advantage of the > uninformed as those levels > > > of phosphorous are 3X to 6X the levels of the > three foods I just > > > listed and even the Hikari Algae Wafers has > nearly 2X to 3X more > > > than the other two. > > > > > > As usual with store bought foods, check the > ingredients. > > > > > > Last but not least, if you have bioload room in > the tanks and cannot > > > figure out the cause of the algae, you might want > to consider a > > > small algae eater. > > > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > (Links to any articles referenced in above reply > are listed on the > > > right side, alphabetically under Labels and also > under Archives by > > > Year, Month) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] > > > On > > > Behalf Of bill 1433 > > > Sent: Monday, September 21, 2009 11:48 AM > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Black Algae Problem > > > > > > Len, > > > > > > I understand what your trying to say and thanks > for the help but the > > > problem is the stuff is everywhere.  Not > real heavy and can usually > > > just be wiped off with the clean cloth, the > problems come in at the > > > "where" part. > > > > > > For instance pieces of gravel, not all mind you > just some, you know, > > > so you'll notice it! > > > > > > What I need is a way to dose the whole tank at > once without having > > > to worry about checking for survivors when I'm > done.  The hp seems > > > to infer direct contact.  Working with a > syringe it would probably > > > take me to Christmas to get the whole tank done > by this method, > > > which is why I'm looking at Seachem. > > > Now if there was some way of using the HP in this > method it would be > > > great but most articles seem to infer this direct > contact approach. > > > > > > Thanks, Bill > > > > > > > > > > > > --- On Mon, 9/21/09, Lenny V. aka GoldLenny > <GoldLenny@... > > <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com>> > > > wrote: > > > > > > > From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@... > > <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com>> > > > > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Black Algae > Problem > > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > Date: Monday, September 21, 2009, 12:21 PM I > know > > > TheKrib's thread is > > > > from late 1990's - early 2000's but IT is > some of the > > > best info out > > > > there on the net.  EVERY forum thread > that I've ever > > > seen in any other > > > > forum still refers to TheKrib's thread as > THE guide > > > for using Hydrogen > > > > Peroxide.  I know the dosages are or > can be confusing > > > in that thread > > > > as that was raw data compiled by posting > around 20 > > > experienced replies > > > > to make that page, which is why I included > the one > > > paragraph about > > > > what the safe dosage was, as I know it from > reading > > > many other forum > > > > threads over the years and using it myself > in the > > > past. > > > > > > > > 1 oz. per 10G has been used on tanks with > fry but if > > > you are more > > > > concerned, halve that dosage.  Do the > dosing during > > > the day so the > > > > lights stay on for a while after the dose as > light > > > helps to break down > > > > the HP faster.  Since you are using a > syringe (minus > > > needle) to apply > > > > the HP, it's the direct contact of the HP on > the algae > > > that does the > > > > job and then the HP breaks down into water > and > > > oxygen.  Do a PWC the > > > > next day (or even be prepared to do a PWC > after dosing > > > if your fish > > > > are showing any signs of distress but the 1 > oz. > > > > per 10G should be OK.  1 oz. equals > around 30ml > > > (actually 29.57ml if > > > > you have a highly calibrated syringe... > lol). > > > > > > > > In TheKrib's page, there were people who > experimented > > > with using as > > > > much as 60ml per 10G (2 oz. per 10G) which > was found > > > to cause issues > > > > for sensitive snails and ghost shrimp and > some fish. > > > Others would > > > > dose with their filters off, worried about > the HP > > > causing harm to the > > > > filters, but that could also cause problems > as it did > > > not > > > > disperse/dilute the HP fast enough in the > water > > > column.  Just leave > > > > your filters running BUT do not squirt the > HP close > > > enough to a filter > > > > intake.  If you need to dose near the > filter, unplug > > > it for a moment, > > > > do the dose, use something to stir up the > water in > > > that area, then > > > > turn the filter back on.  Leave the > lights on for > > > several hours after > > > > using HP.  Do the PWC the next day and > dose again as > > > needed. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > As far as the Excel, which is an EXPENSIVE > alternative > > > treatment, here > > > > are a couple of forum threads on the topic, > with some > > > users using up > > > > to 5X the proper dose of Excel, every 3 > days. > > > > > > > > > > > > > http://www.aquaticplantcentral.com/forumapc/algae/3806-flourish-excel- > > got-ri > > <http://www.aquaticplantcentral.com/forumapc/algae/3806-flourish-excel > > -got-ri> > > > d-all-my.html (25 page thread) > > > > > > > > SeaChem's official reply. > > > > http://www.seachem.com/support/forums/showthread.php?t=682 > > <http://www.seachem.com/support/forums/showthread.php?t=682> > > > > > > > > The top FAQ on this page is another of > SeaChem's > > > official replies. > > > > http://www.seachem.com/support/FAQs/FlourishExcel.html > > <http://www.seachem.com/support/FAQs/FlourishExcel.html> > > > > > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> (Links > to > > > any articles > > > > referenced in above reply are listed on the > right > > > side, alphabetically > > > > under Labels and also under Archives by > Year, Month) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] > > > > On > > > > Behalf Of bill 1433 > > > > Sent: Monday, September 21, 2009 8:40 AM > > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Black Algae > Problem > > > > > > > > Hi Len, > > > >  > > > > \\Steve// also suggested this BUT, even with > the links > > > you > > > > sent (some dated) > > > > it appears that there is great controversy > over > > > dosage. > > > >  > > > > The fish in the tank are 9 rams at 5 months > old and 3 > > > Cory > > > > cats.  Those Rams > > > > were a long time coming and I really don't > want > > > anything to > > > > happen to them. > > > >  > > > > On the other hand, some for other groups > mention the > > > use of > > > > SeaChem's Excel > > > > but again, nobody seems to have an dosage > level for positive > > > > results. > > > > Looking at their web-site they do mention > this on > > > their > > > > support page but > > > > since this is a by-pass type of reaction > they are not > > > being > > > > specific as to > > > > dosage either.  Unless they just mean > to use the > > > product > > > > by its instructions > > > > on the bottle to boost carbon for plants. > > > Information so > > > > far has been "ify" > > > > at best.  I don't want to hurt those > Rams. > > > >  > > > > Bill--where Rams Rule! > > > > > > > > --- On Mon, 9/21/09, Lenny V. aka GoldLenny > <GoldLenny@... > > <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com>> > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@... > > <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com>> > > > > > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Black Algae > Problem > > > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > Date: Monday, September 21, 2009, 1:29 > AM Bill, > > > > > > > > > > If I recall correctly, you do NOT have > any live > > > > plants... > > > > > right? > > > > > > > > > > Here's a thread about using HP for > algae issues, > > > > including suggested > > > > > dosages, etc. > > > > > > > > > > http://www.thekrib.com/Plants/Algae/hydrogen-peroxide.html > > <http://www.thekrib.com/Plants/Algae/hydrogen-peroxide.html> > > > > > > > > > > And an article. > > > > > > > > > > > > http://www.malawicichlidhomepage.com/aquainfo/algae_peroxide.html > > <http://www.malawicichlidhomepage.com/aquainfo/algae_peroxide.html> > > > > > > > > > > The basic safe dose for fish and plants > is 1 oz. > > > per > > > > 10G per day, with > > > > > PWC's between each treatment and do not > dose the > > > tank > > > > close to the > > > > > intake to your filter(s).  If you > have > > > sensitive > > > > shrimp or snails and > > > > > someone mentioned oto's, then you might > want to > > > halve > > > > that dosage. > > > > > > > > > > One other question, are you sure you > have "black > > > > algae".  Algae is > > > > > another thing in the aquarium hobby > that suffers > > > from > > > > common name > > > > > abuse so look over these articles and I > can give > > > you > > > > several other > > > > > sites about algae, if you don't have > them > > > already, for > > > > even more > > > > > reading. > > > > > You'll see what I mean > > > > > about the common name problem. > > > > > > > > > > If your water testing is showing low > levels of > > > > nitrates and other > > > > > nitrogenous compounds, then you might > want to > > > check > > > > your phosphate > > > > > levels in your source water and > tank.  Also, > > > many > > > > fish foods are a BIG > > > > > source of phosphates so check them also > and > > > maybe > > > > change over to a > > > > > lower phosphate level food. > > > > > > > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > > > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> (Links > to > > > > any articles > > > > > referenced in above reply are listed on > the > > > right > > > > side, alphabetically > > > > > under Labels and also under Archives by > Year, > > > Month) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] > > > > > On > > > > > Behalf Of Steve Szabo > > > > > Sent: Sunday, September 20, 2009 10:50 > PM > > > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Black Algae > Problem > > > > > > > > > > Bill, > > > > > > > > > > Get some hydrogen peroxide (normally > found in a > > > 3% > > > > > solution) and a syringe. > > > > > With the syringe, apply the hydrogen > peroxide > > > directly > > > > to > > > > > the black algae. > > > > > This should kill the black algae > without harming > > > any > > > > plants > > > > > or fish in the > > > > > process, since hydrogen peroxide will > break down > > > > fairly > > > > > rapidly to the main > > > > > components, water and oxygen, > > > > > > > > > > \\Steve// > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] > > > > > On > > > > > Behalf Of bill 1433 > > > > > Sent: Sunday, September 20, 2009 11:23 > PM > > > > > To: AquaticLife > > > > > Subject: [AquaticLife] Black Algae > Problem > > > > > > > > > > I have started getting a black algae > problem that > > > I > > > > am > > > > > trying to live with > > > > > but have not been able to > conquer.  The tanks > > > are a > > > > > standard 29-gallon Ram > > > > > tank and a 20-gallon long with Neon > Tetras in > > > it. > > > > >  > > > > > I may have posted this problem a few > months ago > > > and > > > > have > > > > > been living with it > > > > > through cleaning and water changes but > the > > > problem > > > > has > > > > > never really > > > > > completely cleared.  Someone > mentioned the use > > > of > > > > > Seachem's Excel to kill it > > > > > but I'm not sure of proper dosage or > how long. > > > All > > > > water > > > > > tests are fine and > > > > > pH is 7.0 > > > > > > > > > > Bill > > > > > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 43532	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 9/22/2009
Subject: Re: Tank upgrade

This DIY article http://www.cichlid-forum.com/articles/diy_overflow.php shows the overflow going into a sump filter which is using a tank with LOTS of filter media... BUT having the overflow go into a planted tank would give you the added benefits of having easy-to-grow live plants to provide natural filtration would keep the water in better shape in between your weekly tank/filter maintenance. If you don't want to build it all yourself, here's an overflow box you can buy. http://www.marinedepot.com/CPR_CS_Overflow_Boxes_External_Overflow_Boxes_for _Aquariums-CPR-CR1511-FIOFEB-vi.html Then use a canister filter, with the intake in the smaller tank and the outflow of filtered water back into the main tank. If you have room to put the tanks next to each other, you could use one of these "Water Bridges" to connect the two tanks. The top link, made with the plumbing parts, can easily be a DIY project. It doesn't have to be as big and long as the one shown. In your case, since you are just looking to move water from one tank to the next, even a U-Tube would work... the fourth link down. It all depends on how fancy you want to get. http://www.bio-elite.com/waterbridge.htm http://www.aqua-bridge.com/index2.html http://www.animalworldnetwork.com/baqtrailaqki.html There's someone who builds these water bridges and sells them on eBay but the old link I have no longer works and I didn't find any listings with a search. This U-tube, would connect the two tanks if they were next to each other and the smaller tank was raised up so the tops were even, if they aren't already. http://www.drsfostersmith.com/product/prod_display.cfm?c=3578+10090+4024&pca tid=4024 You would still need a canister filter with the intake in the smaller tank and the outflow back into the Oscar's tank. And a filter intake screen http://www.bigalsonline.com/BigAlsUS/ctl3684/cp18665/si1379768/cl0/marinelan declipseintakestrainer or https://www.marineland.com/store/1-Strainer-P215C0.aspx to keep the U-tube from getting blocked by anything in the Oscar tank or him if he ever gets sick. The intake for the canister filter would have to be just below the water level in the smaller tank so that if the U-tube ever loses its siphon or gets blocked, the canister will not be able to keep pumping the smaller tank empty which would cause the bigger tank to overflow. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Cee Jaye Sent: Monday, September 21, 2009 9:46 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Tank upgrade Thanks for the replies guys;) I do believe it is a 20g. I will find a measuring tape & do the measuring in the next couple days. I think he will be surprised at a new home;) I am also planning on getting him rocks to "move around" at his leisure;) I am interested in setting up an overflow. I think that would be "neat" for him to have;) Thanks again for all the great help!! Tara -------Original Message------- From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny Date: 9/21/2009 9:19:53 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Tank upgrade The simple way to know the volume of a rectangular or square tank is to take the three measurements, LxWxH, then divide that total by 231 to get U.S. Gallons. I also use these sites for ponds, aquariums, round, hex, etc. http://www.fishpondinfo.com/calc.htm http://animal-world.com/encyclo/information/calculate.htm The other thing you can do is combine your two tanks, using the smaller one as a planted tank and the larger one for the Oscar. An overflow valve would create the flow from the upper tank down to the lower tank and the canister filter would pump the water back up to the upper tank. There are some specifics on setting this up to prevent an overflow problem but if you decide to do this, we could help. This would allow you to have a planted tank for natural filtration / water purification, increase the total water volume by adding the two tanks together and the Oscar wouldn't be able to tear apart the planted tank. ;-) If I recall correctly, your other tank is a 20G or 30G... right? Did you ever figure out which one? Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Cee Jaye Sent: Monday, September 21, 2009 6:24 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Tank upgrade Well, in the meantime, I have come across a 40gal (I believe. . . How do I know for sure?) So I figure that he will enjoy the extra room for the time being (My Oscar) I will wash it out good (it was used as a tank & not a reptarium). I kept all the emails regarding how to change to a new tank, so I will follow them;) I will need to purchase a new filter soon, too, to add to his tank to go with his old one. That'll be good because then when the next tank comes along, I will have it hopefully:) LOL And maybe in the bigger tank, I will get the opportunity to get a better pic ) Thank you all for the help again! Tara

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 43533	From: ''Grey'' Geyerman	Date: 9/22/2009
Subject: Re: Tank upgrade

To figure the gallons of a tank multiply the length x width x depth and divide by 231. Grey ·´¯`·..><((((º>.·´¯`·.><((((º>.·´¯`·..><((((º> To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com From: CeeJayee@... Date: Mon, 21 Sep 2009 19:24:29 -0400 Subject: [AquaticLife] Tank upgrade Well, in the meantime, I have come across a 40gal (I believe. . . How do I know for sure?) So I figure that he will enjoy the extra room for the time being (My Oscar) I will wash it out good (it was used as a tank & not a reptarium). I kept all the emails regarding how to change to a new tank, so I will follow them;) I will need to purchase a new filter soon, too, to add to his tank to go with his old one. That'll be good because then when the next tank comes along, I will have it hopefully:) LOL And maybe in the bigger tank, I will get the opportunity to get a better pic ) Thank you all for the help again! Tara [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 43534	From: pam andress	Date: 9/22/2009
Subject: Re: Baby mystery snails and question about duckweed.

Your going to be over run with snails. :o Pam To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com From: arberglund@... Date: Tue, 22 Sep 2009 14:37:56 -0800 Subject: [AquaticLife] Baby mystery snails and question about duckweed. So my baby mystery snails are doing great, starting to show some color (purple so far). Also Pam the ones I got from you are busy little guys, they've laid eggs 4 times the last 3 weeks! My 125 gallon is going to be swarming in mystery snails soon. So far my dark purple ones have not laid eggs, the eggs that were laid were from one of the magenta ones, either Pam's or the ones I got from the aquabid seller. The babies look more like Pam's purple ones though. Perhaps my dark purple ones just aren't ready, I know there's enough in there to have at least one pair off ;) LOL. Maybe the next batch will be dark purple ones ;) The ones in the 125 gallon are growing faster, that tank is usually a couple degrees warmer than the ones upstairs as I keep the upstairs windows open for a bit of air in the house, it gets too stuffy if I don't. Most of my older snails in the 55 gallon upstairs are "napping", they have been for a couple of weeks, off and on. Perhaps they think it's their hibernation time? Not sure, either way they're still alive and they wake up for food every now and then. I'm struggling with the duckweed in that tank as well, perhaps they don't like the duckweed? Other than removing all traces of duckweed so that it can't reproduce is there a faster way to get rid of it somehow? LOL. Darn stuff is going to take over my home, when I get done cleaning the fish tank I have duckweed everywhere ;) Hubby calls me "swamp thing" LOL. Amber [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 43535	From: Donna Ransome	Date: 9/22/2009
Subject: Re: Black Algae Problem

I agree, cyanobacteria. Also called slime algae so the lack of fuzz makes sense. I get it in my zero nitrate planted tanks. Erythromycin will indeed cure it for this episode and has never harmed my bacteria, but your experience may vary. I get it in my zero nitrate planted tanks. Then the problem is how do you keep it from coming back. Believe it or not in my planted tanks the answer is to keep the plants well fertilized, even to the point of adding nitrate and phosphorus! It’s quite a balancing act, LOL. _____ From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Steve Szabo Sent: Tuesday, September 22, 2009 12:16 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Black Algae Problem Bill, Then it is probably a form of cyanobacteria, more commonly known as blue-green algae. In this case, erythromycin is what you should use to cure it, but this can also harm your nitrification bacteria, so you will need to keep an eye on your tank's nitrogen levels. \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of bill 1433 Sent: Monday, September 21, 2009 11:26 PM To: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Black Algae Problem Sorry Len, None of the above. It could be like dark blue green or once was. It just sits there and if wiped off or distrubed, its like a small sheet floating around the tank. Bill --- On Mon, 9/21/09, Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@gmail. <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com> com> wrote: > From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@gmail. <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com> com> > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Black Algae Problem > To: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com > Date: Monday, September 21, 2009, 8:38 PM > Bill, > > Did you use a particular website in determining the common > name of your > algae? I often see names like Black Algae, Black > Brush Algae, etc., thrown > around and without pictures, it's tough to know what a > particular site or > fish keeper may be talking about. > > Here's that MalawiCichlid page about Hydrogen Peroxide and > the top few > pictures show "Black Algae". Is this what you have? > http://www.malawici <http://www.malawicichlidhomepage.com/aquainfo/algae_peroxide.html> chlidhomepage.com/aquainfo/algae_peroxide.html > > Other sites describe "Black Algae" as sheets of dark green > to blackish > looking slimy algae when they are probably talking about > BGA - Blue Green > Algae - Cyanobacteria. > http://badmanstropi <http://badmanstropicalfish.com/mb/mb16.html> calfish.com/mb/mb16.html > > AmericanAquariumProducts, a reliable site, has this picture > of Black Beard > Algae. > http://www.american <http://www.americanaquariumproducts.com/images/graphics/bbalgae2.jpg> aquariumproducts.com/images/graphics/bbalgae2.jpg > > Anyhow, let us know what you have so we can be sure we're > all on the same > page... so to speak. > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> blogspot.com > (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed > on the right > side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives > by Year, Month) > > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com > [mailto:AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com] > On > Behalf Of Amber Berglund > Sent: Tuesday, September 22, 2009 5:16 PM > To: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Black Algae Problem > > I have been told word of mouth that Platy's and Guppy's > will nibble on the > black beard algae, but only if you practically starve them > ;) LOL. > So basically it's pointless to try getting a fish that eats > the algae as > they will always prefer the food you feed them over the > algae growing in the > tank ;) I have seen my guppy's and platy's nibble on it, > but not all the > time, usually when they're foraging for food they will > "taste test" the > algae too. > > Amber > > bill 1433 wrote: > > > > > > Check on the algae eater but far as I know, none eat > the black stuff. > > Your right, i've got to figure out the "Y" part. > Lights on 10 to 12 > > but they are standard tubes, 17watts each for the 20 > and 29. > > > > Food? Very high protein stuff from Ken's up in Mass. > > Fish love it. > > > > Bill > > > > --- On Mon, 9/21/09, Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@gmail. <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com> com > > > <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com>> wrote: > > > > > From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@gmail. <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com> com > > <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com>> > > > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Black Algae Problem > > > To: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > Date: Monday, September 21, 2009, 1:28 PM I guess > the SeaChem > > > Flourish Excel might be your preferred choice... > BUT... > > > remember that if you do not figure out the cause > and fix the cause, > > > it will simply return, so you still have to > figure out the cause. > > > > > > Presuming you are keeping any cycling issues in > check and thus > > > keeping nitrates at a low enough level, below > 20ppm, then I would > > > highly suspect either too much lighting (how long > do you leave them > > > on each day and how much lighting do you have?) > or direct sunlight > > > or other nutrients (mainly > > > phosphates) that you may be getting from your > well water or from > > > many foods that list phosphorous percentages > (I've seen many that > > > have MUCH higher levels than others). > > > > > > I'm looking at three of my store bought foods > right now. Omega One > > > Medium Goldfish Pellets lists "Min. Phosphorous > (0.5%)". I'm not > > > sure why it's in brackets ( ), as the other > analysis levels are not > > > in brackets... could this mean negative???, I > have to check with > > > Omega One. My Hikari Algae Wafers has > "Guaranteed Analysis" as > > > "Phosphorous min 0.7%" but then in a separate > section called > > > "Typical Analysis", it has "Phosphorous > 1.4%". My Hagen Nutrafin > > > Max Goldfish Flake Food has "Phosphorous min > 0.5%, max 0.9%". > > > > > > I've seen other foods where they "advertise" on > the package of > > > having less than 3% phosphorous or something like > that, which means > > > they are simply taking advantage of the > uninformed as those levels > > > of phosphorous are 3X to 6X the levels of the > three foods I just > > > listed and even the Hikari Algae Wafers has > nearly 2X to 3X more > > > than the other two. > > > > > > As usual with store bought foods, check the > ingredients. > > > > > > Last but not least, if you have bioload room in > the tanks and cannot > > > figure out the cause of the algae, you might want > to consider a > > > small algae eater. > > > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> blogspot.com > > <http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> blogspot.com> > > > (Links to any articles referenced in above reply > are listed on the > > > right side, alphabetically under Labels and also > under Archives by > > > Year, Month) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > From: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > [mailto:AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] > > > On > > > Behalf Of bill 1433 > > > Sent: Monday, September 21, 2009 11:48 AM > > > To: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Black Algae Problem > > > > > > Len, > > > > > > I understand what your trying to say and thanks > for the help but the > > > problem is the stuff is everywhere. Not > real heavy and can usually > > > just be wiped off with the clean cloth, the > problems come in at the > > > "where" part. > > > > > > For instance pieces of gravel, not all mind you > just some, you know, > > > so you'll notice it! > > > > > > What I need is a way to dose the whole tank at > once without having > > > to worry about checking for survivors when I'm > done. The hp seems > > > to infer direct contact. Working with a > syringe it would probably > > > take me to Christmas to get the whole tank done > by this method, > > > which is why I'm looking at Seachem. > > > Now if there was some way of using the HP in this > method it would be > > > great but most articles seem to infer this direct > contact approach. > > > > > > Thanks, Bill > > > > > > > > > > > > --- On Mon, 9/21/09, Lenny V. aka GoldLenny > <GoldLenny@gmail. <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com> com > > <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com>> > > > wrote: > > > > > > > From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@gmail. <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com> com > > <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com>> > > > > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Black Algae > Problem > > > > To: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > Date: Monday, September 21, 2009, 12:21 PM I > know > > > TheKrib's thread is > > > > from late 1990's - early 2000's but IT is > some of the > > > best info out > > > > there on the net. EVERY forum thread > that I've ever > > > seen in any other > > > > forum still refers to TheKrib's thread as > THE guide > > > for using Hydrogen > > > > Peroxide. I know the dosages are or > can be confusing > > > in that thread > > > > as that was raw data compiled by posting > around 20 > > > experienced replies > > > > to make that page, which is why I included > the one > > > paragraph about > > > > what the safe dosage was, as I know it from > reading > > > many other forum > > > > threads over the years and using it myself > in the > > > past. > > > > > > > > 1 oz. per 10G has been used on tanks with > fry but if > > > you are more > > > > concerned, halve that dosage. Do the > dosing during > > > the day so the > > > > lights stay on for a while after the dose as > light > > > helps to break down > > > > the HP faster. Since you are using a > syringe (minus > > > needle) to apply > > > > the HP, it's the direct contact of the HP on > the algae > > > that does the > > > > job and then the HP breaks down into water > and > > > oxygen. Do a PWC the > > > > next day (or even be prepared to do a PWC > after dosing > > > if your fish > > > > are showing any signs of distress but the 1 > oz. > > > > per 10G should be OK. 1 oz. equals > around 30ml > > > (actually 29.57ml if > > > > you have a highly calibrated syringe... > lol). > > > > > > > > In TheKrib's page, there were people who > experimented > > > with using as > > > > much as 60ml per 10G (2 oz. per 10G) which > was found > > > to cause issues > > > > for sensitive snails and ghost shrimp and > some fish. > > > Others would > > > > dose with their filters off, worried about > the HP > > > causing harm to the > > > > filters, but that could also cause problems > as it did > > > not > > > > disperse/dilute the HP fast enough in the > water > > > column. Just leave > > > > your filters running BUT do not squirt the > HP close > > > enough to a filter > > > > intake. If you need to dose near the > filter, unplug > > > it for a moment, > > > > do the dose, use something to stir up the > water in > > > that area, then > > > > turn the filter back on. Leave the > lights on for > > > several hours after > > > > using HP. Do the PWC the next day and > dose again as > > > needed. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > As far as the Excel, which is an EXPENSIVE > alternative > > > treatment, here > > > > are a couple of forum threads on the topic, > with some > > > users using up > > > > to 5X the proper dose of Excel, every 3 > days. > > > > > > > > > > > > > http://www.aquaticp <http://www.aquaticplantcentral.com/forumapc/algae/3806-flourish-excel-> lantcentral.com/forumapc/algae/3806-flourish-excel- > > got-ri > > <http://www.aquaticp <http://www.aquaticplantcentral.com/forumapc/algae/3806-flourish-excel> lantcentral.com/forumapc/algae/3806-flourish-excel > > -got-ri> > > > d-all-my.html (25 page thread) > > > > > > > > SeaChem's official reply. > > > > http://www.seachem. <http://www.seachem.com/support/forums/showthread.php?t=682> com/support/forums/showthread.php?t=682 > > <http://www.seachem. <http://www.seachem.com/support/forums/showthread.php?t=682> com/support/forums/showthread.php?t=682> > > > > > > > > The top FAQ on this page is another of > SeaChem's > > > official replies. > > > > http://www.seachem. <http://www.seachem.com/support/FAQs/FlourishExcel.html> com/support/FAQs/FlourishExcel.html > > <http://www.seachem. <http://www.seachem.com/support/FAQs/FlourishExcel.html> com/support/FAQs/FlourishExcel.html> > > > > > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> blogspot.com > > <http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> blogspot.com> (Links > to > > > any articles > > > > referenced in above reply are listed on the > right > > > side, alphabetically > > > > under Labels and also under Archives by > Year, Month) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > > From: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > [mailto:AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] > > > > On > > > > Behalf Of bill 1433 > > > > Sent: Monday, September 21, 2009 8:40 AM > > > > To: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Black Algae > Problem > > > > > > > > Hi Len, > > > > > > > > \\Steve// also suggested this BUT, even with > the links > > > you > > > > sent (some dated) > > > > it appears that there is great controversy > over > > > dosage. > > > > > > > > The fish in the tank are 9 rams at 5 months > old and 3 > > > Cory > > > > cats. Those Rams > > > > were a long time coming and I really don't > want > > > anything to > > > > happen to them. > > > > > > > > On the other hand, some for other groups > mention the > > > use of > > > > SeaChem's Excel > > > > but again, nobody seems to have an dosage > level for positive > > > > results. > > > > Looking at their web-site they do mention > this on > > > their > > > > support page but > > > > since this is a by-pass type of reaction > they are not > > > being > > > > specific as to > > > > dosage either. Unless they just mean > to use the > > > product > > > > by its instructions > > > > on the bottle to boost carbon for plants. > > > Information so > > > > far has been "ify" > > > > at best. I don't want to hurt those > Rams. > > > > > > > > Bill--where Rams Rule! > > > > > > > > --- On Mon, 9/21/09, Lenny V. aka GoldLenny > <GoldLenny@gmail. <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com> com > > <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com>> > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@gmail. <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com> com > > <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com>> > > > > > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Black Algae > Problem > > > > > To: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > Date: Monday, September 21, 2009, 1:29 > AM Bill, > > > > > > > > > > If I recall correctly, you do NOT have > any live > > > > plants... > > > > > right? > > > > > > > > > > Here's a thread about using HP for > algae issues, > > > > including suggested > > > > > dosages, etc. > > > > > > > > > > http://www.thekrib. <http://www.thekrib.com/Plants/Algae/hydrogen-peroxide.html> com/Plants/Algae/hydrogen-peroxide.html > > <http://www.thekrib. <http://www.thekrib.com/Plants/Algae/hydrogen-peroxide.html> com/Plants/Algae/hydrogen-peroxide.html> > > > > > > > > > > And an article. > > > > > > > > > > > > http://www.malawici <http://www.malawicichlidhomepage.com/aquainfo/algae_peroxide.html> chlidhomepage.com/aquainfo/algae_peroxide.html > > <http://www.malawici <http://www.malawicichlidhomepage.com/aquainfo/algae_peroxide.html> chlidhomepage.com/aquainfo/algae_peroxide.html> > > > > > > > > > > The basic safe dose for fish and plants > is 1 oz. > > > per > > > > 10G per day, with > > > > > PWC's between each treatment and do not > dose the > > > tank > > > > close to the > > > > > intake to your filter(s). If you > have > > > sensitive > > > > shrimp or snails and > > > > > someone mentioned oto's, then you might > want to > > > halve > > > > that dosage. > > > > > > > > > > One other question, are you sure you > have "black > > > > algae". Algae is > > > > > another thing in the aquarium hobby > that suffers > > > from > > > > common name > > > > > abuse so look over these articles and I > can give > > > you > > > > several other > > > > > sites about algae, if you don't have > them > > > already, for > > > > even more > > > > > reading. > > > > > You'll see what I mean > > > > > about the common name problem. > > > > > > > > > > If your water testing is showing low > levels of > > > > nitrates and other > > > > > nitrogenous compounds, then you might > want to > > > check > > > > your phosphate > > > > > levels in your source water and > tank. Also, > > > many > > > > fish foods are a BIG > > > > > source of phosphates so check them also > and > > > maybe > > > > change over to a > > > > > lower phosphate level food. > > > > > > > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > > > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> blogspot.com > > <http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> blogspot.com> (Links > to > > > > any articles > > > > > referenced in above reply are listed on > the > > > right > > > > side, alphabetically > > > > > under Labels and also under Archives by > Year, > > > Month) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > > > From: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > [mailto:AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] > > > > > On > > > > > Behalf Of Steve Szabo > > > > > Sent: Sunday, September 20, 2009 10:50 > PM > > > > > To: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Black Algae > Problem > > > > > > > > > > Bill, > > > > > > > > > > Get some hydrogen peroxide (normally > found in a > > > 3% > > > > > solution) and a syringe. > > > > > With the syringe, apply the hydrogen > peroxide > > > directly > > > > to > > > > > the black algae. > > > > > This should kill the black algae > without harming > > > any > > > > plants > > > > > or fish in the > > > > > process, since hydrogen peroxide will > break down > > > > fairly > > > > > rapidly to the main > > > > > components, water and oxygen, > > > > > > > > > > \\Steve// > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > > > From: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > [mailto:AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] > > > > > On > > > > > Behalf Of bill 1433 > > > > > Sent: Sunday, September 20, 2009 11:23 > PM > > > > > To: AquaticLife > > > > > Subject: [AquaticLife] Black Algae > Problem > > > > > > > > > > I have started getting a black algae > problem that > > > I > > > > am > > > > > trying to live with > > > > > but have not been able to > conquer. The tanks > > > are a > > > > > standard 29-gallon Ram > > > > > tank and a 20-gallon long with Neon > Tetras in > > > it. > > > > > > > > > > I may have posted this problem a few > months ago > > > and > > > > have > > > > > been living with it > > > > > through cleaning and water changes but > the > > > problem > > > > has > > > > > never really > > > > > completely cleared. Someone > mentioned the use > > > of > > > > > Seachem's Excel to kill it > > > > > but I'm not sure of proper dosage or > how long. > > > All > > > > water > > > > > tests are fine and > > > > > pH is 7.0 > > > > > > > > > > Bill > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 43536	From: Donna Ransome	Date: 9/22/2009
Subject: Re: Black Algae Problem

I need an edit button, LOL. _____ From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Donna Ransome Sent: Tuesday, September 22, 2009 6:20 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Black Algae Problem I agree, cyanobacteria. Also called slime algae so the lack of fuzz makes sense. I get it in my zero nitrate planted tanks. Erythromycin will indeed cure it for this episode and has never harmed my bacteria, but your experience may vary. I get it in my zero nitrate planted tanks. Then the problem is how do you keep it from coming back. Believe it or not in my planted tanks the answer is to keep the plants well fertilized, even to the point of adding nitrate and phosphorus! It’s quite a balancing act, LOL. _____ From: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Steve Szabo Sent: Tuesday, September 22, 2009 12:16 AM To: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Black Algae Problem Bill, Then it is probably a form of cyanobacteria, more commonly known as blue-green algae. In this case, erythromycin is what you should use to cure it, but this can also harm your nitrification bacteria, so you will need to keep an eye on your tank's nitrogen levels. \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of bill 1433 Sent: Monday, September 21, 2009 11:26 PM To: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Black Algae Problem Sorry Len, None of the above. It could be like dark blue green or once was. It just sits there and if wiped off or distrubed, its like a small sheet floating around the tank. Bill --- On Mon, 9/21/09, Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@gmail. <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com> com> wrote: > From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@gmail. <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com> com> > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Black Algae Problem > To: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com > Date: Monday, September 21, 2009, 8:38 PM > Bill, > > Did you use a particular website in determining the common > name of your > algae? I often see names like Black Algae, Black > Brush Algae, etc., thrown > around and without pictures, it's tough to know what a > particular site or > fish keeper may be talking about. > > Here's that MalawiCichlid page about Hydrogen Peroxide and > the top few > pictures show "Black Algae". Is this what you have? > http://www.malawici <http://www.malawici <http://www.malawicichlidhomepage.com/aquainfo/algae_peroxide.html> chlidhomepage.com/aquainfo/algae_peroxide.html> chlidhomepage.com/aquainfo/algae_peroxide.html > > Other sites describe "Black Algae" as sheets of dark green > to blackish > looking slimy algae when they are probably talking about > BGA - Blue Green > Algae - Cyanobacteria. > http://badmanstropi <http://badmanstropi <http://badmanstropicalfish.com/mb/mb16.html> calfish.com/mb/mb16.html> calfish.com/mb/mb16.html > > AmericanAquariumProducts, a reliable site, has this picture > of Black Beard > Algae. > http://www.american <http://www.american <http://www.americanaquariumproducts.com/images/graphics/bbalgae2.jpg> aquariumproducts.com/images/graphics/bbalgae2.jpg> aquariumproducts.com/images/graphics/bbalgae2.jpg > > Anyhow, let us know what you have so we can be sure we're > all on the same > page... so to speak. > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> blogspot.com> blogspot.com > (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed > on the right > side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives > by Year, Month) > > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com > [mailto:AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com] > On > Behalf Of Amber Berglund > Sent: Tuesday, September 22, 2009 5:16 PM > To: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Black Algae Problem > > I have been told word of mouth that Platy's and Guppy's > will nibble on the > black beard algae, but only if you practically starve them > ;) LOL. > So basically it's pointless to try getting a fish that eats > the algae as > they will always prefer the food you feed them over the > algae growing in the > tank ;) I have seen my guppy's and platy's nibble on it, > but not all the > time, usually when they're foraging for food they will > "taste test" the > algae too. > > Amber > > bill 1433 wrote: > > > > > > Check on the algae eater but far as I know, none eat > the black stuff. > > Your right, i've got to figure out the "Y" part. > Lights on 10 to 12 > > but they are standard tubes, 17watts each for the 20 > and 29. > > > > Food? Very high protein stuff from Ken's up in Mass. > > Fish love it. > > > > Bill > > > > --- On Mon, 9/21/09, Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@gmail. <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com> com > > > <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com>> wrote: > > > > > From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@gmail. <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com> com > > <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com>> > > > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Black Algae Problem > > > To: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > Date: Monday, September 21, 2009, 1:28 PM I guess > the SeaChem > > > Flourish Excel might be your preferred choice... > BUT... > > > remember that if you do not figure out the cause > and fix the cause, > > > it will simply return, so you still have to > figure out the cause. > > > > > > Presuming you are keeping any cycling issues in > check and thus > > > keeping nitrates at a low enough level, below > 20ppm, then I would > > > highly suspect either too much lighting (how long > do you leave them > > > on each day and how much lighting do you have?) > or direct sunlight > > > or other nutrients (mainly > > > phosphates) that you may be getting from your > well water or from > > > many foods that list phosphorous percentages > (I've seen many that > > > have MUCH higher levels than others). > > > > > > I'm looking at three of my store bought foods > right now. Omega One > > > Medium Goldfish Pellets lists "Min. Phosphorous > (0.5%)". I'm not > > > sure why it's in brackets ( ), as the other > analysis levels are not > > > in brackets... could this mean negative???, I > have to check with > > > Omega One. My Hikari Algae Wafers has > "Guaranteed Analysis" as > > > "Phosphorous min 0.7%" but then in a separate > section called > > > "Typical Analysis", it has "Phosphorous > 1.4%". My Hagen Nutrafin > > > Max Goldfish Flake Food has "Phosphorous min > 0.5%, max 0.9%". > > > > > > I've seen other foods where they "advertise" on > the package of > > > having less than 3% phosphorous or something like > that, which means > > > they are simply taking advantage of the > uninformed as those levels > > > of phosphorous are 3X to 6X the levels of the > three foods I just > > > listed and even the Hikari Algae Wafers has > nearly 2X to 3X more > > > than the other two. > > > > > > As usual with store bought foods, check the > ingredients. > > > > > > Last but not least, if you have bioload room in > the tanks and cannot > > > figure out the cause of the algae, you might want > to consider a > > > small algae eater. > > > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> blogspot.com> blogspot.com > > <http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> blogspot.com> blogspot.com> > > > (Links to any articles referenced in above reply > are listed on the > > > right side, alphabetically under Labels and also > under Archives by > > > Year, Month) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > From: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > [mailto:AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] > > > On > > > Behalf Of bill 1433 > > > Sent: Monday, September 21, 2009 11:48 AM > > > To: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Black Algae Problem > > > > > > Len, > > > > > > I understand what your trying to say and thanks > for the help but the > > > problem is the stuff is everywhere. Not > real heavy and can usually > > > just be wiped off with the clean cloth, the > problems come in at the > > > "where" part. > > > > > > For instance pieces of gravel, not all mind you > just some, you know, > > > so you'll notice it! > > > > > > What I need is a way to dose the whole tank at > once without having > > > to worry about checking for survivors when I'm > done. The hp seems > > > to infer direct contact. Working with a > syringe it would probably > > > take me to Christmas to get the whole tank done > by this method, > > > which is why I'm looking at Seachem. > > > Now if there was some way of using the HP in this > method it would be > > > great but most articles seem to infer this direct > contact approach. > > > > > > Thanks, Bill > > > > > > > > > > > > --- On Mon, 9/21/09, Lenny V. aka GoldLenny > <GoldLenny@gmail. <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com> com > > <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com>> > > > wrote: > > > > > > > From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@gmail. <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com> com > > <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com>> > > > > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Black Algae > Problem > > > > To: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > Date: Monday, September 21, 2009, 12:21 PM I > know > > > TheKrib's thread is > > > > from late 1990's - early 2000's but IT is > some of the > > > best info out > > > > there on the net. EVERY forum thread > that I've ever > > > seen in any other > > > > forum still refers to TheKrib's thread as > THE guide > > > for using Hydrogen > > > > Peroxide. I know the dosages are or > can be confusing > > > in that thread > > > > as that was raw data compiled by posting > around 20 > > > experienced replies > > > > to make that page, which is why I included > the one > > > paragraph about > > > > what the safe dosage was, as I know it from > reading > > > many other forum > > > > threads over the years and using it myself > in the > > > past. > > > > > > > > 1 oz. per 10G has been used on tanks with > fry but if > > > you are more > > > > concerned, halve that dosage. Do the > dosing during > > > the day so the > > > > lights stay on for a while after the dose as > light > > > helps to break down > > > > the HP faster. Since you are using a > syringe (minus > > > needle) to apply > > > > the HP, it's the direct contact of the HP on > the algae > > > that does the > > > > job and then the HP breaks down into water > and > > > oxygen. Do a PWC the > > > > next day (or even be prepared to do a PWC > after dosing > > > if your fish > > > > are showing any signs of distress but the 1 > oz. > > > > per 10G should be OK. 1 oz. equals > around 30ml > > > (actually 29.57ml if > > > > you have a highly calibrated syringe... > lol). > > > > > > > > In TheKrib's page, there were people who > experimented > > > with using as > > > > much as 60ml per 10G (2 oz. per 10G) which > was found > > > to cause issues > > > > for sensitive snails and ghost shrimp and > some fish. > > > Others would > > > > dose with their filters off, worried about > the HP > > > causing harm to the > > > > filters, but that could also cause problems > as it did > > > not > > > > disperse/dilute the HP fast enough in the > water > > > column. Just leave > > > > your filters running BUT do not squirt the > HP close > > > enough to a filter > > > > intake. If you need to dose near the > filter, unplug > > > it for a moment, > > > > do the dose, use something to stir up the > water in > > > that area, then > > > > turn the filter back on. Leave the > lights on for > > > several hours after > > > > using HP. Do the PWC the next day and > dose again as > > > needed. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > As far as the Excel, which is an EXPENSIVE > alternative > > > treatment, here > > > > are a couple of forum threads on the topic, > with some > > > users using up > > > > to 5X the proper dose of Excel, every 3 > days. > > > > > > > > > > > > > http://www.aquaticp <http://www.aquaticp <http://www.aquaticplantcentral.com/forumapc/algae/3806-flourish-excel-> lantcentral.com/forumapc/algae/3806-flourish-excel-> lantcentral.com/forumapc/algae/3806-flourish-excel- > > got-ri > > <http://www.aquaticp <http://www.aquaticp <http://www.aquaticplantcentral.com/forumapc/algae/3806-flourish-excel> lantcentral.com/forumapc/algae/3806-flourish-excel> lantcentral.com/forumapc/algae/3806-flourish-excel > > -got-ri> > > > d-all-my.html (25 page thread) > > > > > > > > SeaChem's official reply. > > > > http://www.seachem. <http://www.seachem. <http://www.seachem.com/support/forums/showthread.php?t=682> com/support/forums/showthread.php?t=682> com/support/forums/showthread.php?t=682 > > <http://www.seachem. <http://www.seachem. <http://www.seachem.com/support/forums/showthread.php?t=682> com/support/forums/showthread.php?t=682> com/support/forums/showthread.php?t=682> > > > > > > > > The top FAQ on this page is another of > SeaChem's > > > official replies. > > > > http://www.seachem. <http://www.seachem. <http://www.seachem.com/support/FAQs/FlourishExcel.html> com/support/FAQs/FlourishExcel.html> com/support/FAQs/FlourishExcel.html > > <http://www.seachem. <http://www.seachem. <http://www.seachem.com/support/FAQs/FlourishExcel.html> com/support/FAQs/FlourishExcel.html> com/support/FAQs/FlourishExcel.html> > > > > > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> blogspot.com> blogspot.com > > <http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> blogspot.com> blogspot.com> (Links > to > > > any articles > > > > referenced in above reply are listed on the > right > > > side, alphabetically > > > > under Labels and also under Archives by > Year, Month) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > > From: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > [mailto:AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] > > > > On > > > > Behalf Of bill 1433 > > > > Sent: Monday, September 21, 2009 8:40 AM > > > > To: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Black Algae > Problem > > > > > > > > Hi Len, > > > > > > > > \\Steve// also suggested this BUT, even with > the links > > > you > > > > sent (some dated) > > > > it appears that there is great controversy > over > > > dosage. > > > > > > > > The fish in the tank are 9 rams at 5 months > old and 3 > > > Cory > > > > cats. Those Rams > > > > were a long time coming and I really don't > want > > > anything to > > > > happen to them. > > > > > > > > On the other hand, some for other groups > mention the > > > use of > > > > SeaChem's Excel > > > > but again, nobody seems to have an dosage > level for positive > > > > results. > > > > Looking at their web-site they do mention > this on > > > their > > > > support page but > > > > since this is a by-pass type of reaction > they are not > > > being > > > > specific as to > > > > dosage either. Unless they just mean > to use the > > > product > > > > by its instructions > > > > on the bottle to boost carbon for plants. > > > Information so > > > > far has been "ify" > > > > at best. I don't want to hurt those > Rams. > > > > > > > > Bill--where Rams Rule! > > > > > > > > --- On Mon, 9/21/09, Lenny V. aka GoldLenny > <GoldLenny@gmail. <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com> com > > <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com>> > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@gmail. <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com> com > > <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com>> > > > > > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Black Algae > Problem > > > > > To: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > Date: Monday, September 21, 2009, 1:29 > AM Bill, > > > > > > > > > > If I recall correctly, you do NOT have > any live > > > > plants... > > > > > right? > > > > > > > > > > Here's a thread about using HP for > algae issues, > > > > including suggested > > > > > dosages, etc. > > > > > > > > > > http://www.thekrib. <http://www.thekrib. <http://www.thekrib.com/Plants/Algae/hydrogen-peroxide.html> com/Plants/Algae/hydrogen-peroxide.html> com/Plants/Algae/hydrogen-peroxide.html > > <http://www.thekrib. <http://www.thekrib. <http://www.thekrib.com/Plants/Algae/hydrogen-peroxide.html> com/Plants/Algae/hydrogen-peroxide.html> com/Plants/Algae/hydrogen-peroxide.html> > > > > > > > > > > And an article. > > > > > > > > > > > > http://www.malawici <http://www.malawici <http://www.malawicichlidhomepage.com/aquainfo/algae_peroxide.html> chlidhomepage.com/aquainfo/algae_peroxide.html> chlidhomepage.com/aquainfo/algae_peroxide.html > > <http://www.malawici <http://www.malawici <http://www.malawicichlidhomepage.com/aquainfo/algae_peroxide.html> chlidhomepage.com/aquainfo/algae_peroxide.html> chlidhomepage.com/aquainfo/algae_peroxide.html> > > > > > > > > > > The basic safe dose for fish and plants > is 1 oz. > > > per > > > > 10G per day, with > > > > > PWC's between each treatment and do not > dose the > > > tank > > > > close to the > > > > > intake to your filter(s). If you > have > > > sensitive > > > > shrimp or snails and > > > > > someone mentioned oto's, then you might > want to > > > halve > > > > that dosage. > > > > > > > > > > One other question, are you sure you > have "black > > > > algae". Algae is > > > > > another thing in the aquarium hobby > that suffers > > > from > > > > common name > > > > > abuse so look over these articles and I > can give > > > you > > > > several other > > > > > sites about algae, if you don't have > them > > > already, for > > > > even more > > > > > reading. > > > > > You'll see what I mean > > > > > about the common name problem. > > > > > > > > > > If your water testing is showing low > levels of > > > > nitrates and other > > > > > nitrogenous compounds, then you might > want to > > > check > > > > your phosphate > > > > > levels in your source water and > tank. Also, > > > many > > > > fish foods are a BIG > > > > > source of phosphates so check them also > and > > > maybe > > > > change over to a > > > > > lower phosphate level food. > > > > > > > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > > > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> blogspot.com> blogspot.com > > <http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> blogspot.com> blogspot.com> (Links > to > > > > any articles > > > > > referenced in above reply are listed on > the > > > right > > > > side, alphabetically > > > > > under Labels and also under Archives by > Year, > > > Month) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > > > From: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > [mailto:AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] > > > > > On > > > > > Behalf Of Steve Szabo > > > > > Sent: Sunday, September 20, 2009 10:50 > PM > > > > > To: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Black Algae > Problem > > > > > > > > > > Bill, > > > > > > > > > > Get some hydrogen peroxide (normally > found in a > > > 3% > > > > > solution) and a syringe. > > > > > With the syringe, apply the hydrogen > peroxide > > > directly > > > > to > > > > > the black algae. > > > > > This should kill the black algae > without harming > > > any > > > > plants > > > > > or fish in the > > > > > process, since hydrogen peroxide will > break down > > > > fairly > > > > > rapidly to the main > > > > > components, water and oxygen, > > > > > > > > > > \\Steve// > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > > > From: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > [mailto:AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] > > > > > On > > > > > Behalf Of bill 1433 > > > > > Sent: Sunday, September 20, 2009 11:23 > PM > > > > > To: AquaticLife > > > > > Subject: [AquaticLife] Black Algae > Problem > > > > > > > > > > I have started getting a black algae > problem that > > > I > > > > am > > > > > trying to live with > > > > > but have not been able to > conquer. The tanks > > > are a > > > > > standard 29-gallon Ram > > > > > tank and a 20-gallon long with Neon > Tetras in > > > it. > > > > > > > > > > I may have posted this problem a few > months ago > > > and > > > > have > > > > > been living with it > > > > > through cleaning and water changes but > the > > > problem > > > > has > > > > > never really > > > > > completely cleared. Someone > mentioned the use > > > of > > > > > Seachem's Excel to kill it > > > > > but I'm not sure of proper dosage or > how long. > > > All > > > > water > > > > > tests are fine and > > > > > pH is 7.0 > > > > > > > > > > Bill > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 43537	From: bill 1433	Date: 9/22/2009
Subject: Re: Black Algae Problem

I'm sorry \\Steve// maybe I should have tried to describe it better. One of those things like, "It sounds right to me type of things" but others cannot make sense of it. Also I should have added that the algae was a beautiful green and suddenly changed to its now darker color in addition it never looked like the pictures in Lenny's links that he posted, it was never "hairy". Thanks for your help and replies so far, Bill --- On Tue, 9/22/09, Steve Szabo <steve@...> wrote: > From: Steve Szabo <steve@...> > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Black Algae Problem > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Date: Tuesday, September 22, 2009, 12:16 AM > Bill, > > Then it is probably a form of cyanobacteria, more commonly > known as blue-green algae. In this case, erythromycin is > what you should use to cure it, but this can also harm your > nitrification bacteria, so you will need to keep an eye on > your tank's nitrogen levels. > > \\Steve// > > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] > On Behalf Of bill 1433 > Sent: Monday, September 21, 2009 11:26 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Black Algae Problem > > Sorry Len, > > None of the above.  It could be like dark blue green > or once was.  It just sits there and if wiped off or > distrubed, its like a small sheet floating around the tank. > > Bill > > --- On Mon, 9/21/09, Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@...> > wrote: > > > From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@...> > > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Black Algae Problem > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > Date: Monday, September 21, 2009, 8:38 PM > > Bill, > > > > Did you use a particular website in determining the > common > > name of your > > algae?  I often see names like Black Algae, Black > > Brush Algae, etc., thrown > > around and without pictures, it's tough to know what > a > > particular site or > > fish keeper may be talking about. > > > > Here's that MalawiCichlid page about Hydrogen Peroxide > and > > the top few > > pictures show "Black Algae".  Is this what you have? > > http://www.malawicichlidhomepage.com/aquainfo/algae_peroxide.html > > > > Other sites describe "Black Algae" as sheets of dark > green > > to blackish > > looking slimy algae when they are probably talking > about > > BGA - Blue Green > > Algae - Cyanobacteria. > > http://badmanstropicalfish.com/mb/mb16.html > > > > AmericanAquariumProducts, a reliable site, has this > picture > > of Black Beard > > Algae. > > http://www.americanaquariumproducts.com/images/graphics/bbalgae2.jpg > > > > Anyhow, let us know what you have so we can be sure > we're > > all on the same > > page... so to speak. > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > > (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are > listed > > on the right > > side, alphabetically under Labels and also under > Archives > > by Year, Month) > >  > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] > > On > > Behalf Of Amber Berglund > > Sent: Tuesday, September 22, 2009 5:16 PM > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Black Algae Problem > > > > I have been told word of mouth that Platy's and > Guppy's > > will nibble on the > > black beard algae, but only if you practically starve > them > > ;) LOL. > > So basically it's pointless to try getting a fish that > eats > > the algae as > > they will always prefer the food you feed them over > the > > algae growing in the > > tank ;) I have seen my guppy's and platy's nibble on > it, > > but not all the > > time, usually when they're foraging for food they > will > > "taste test" the > > algae too. > > > > Amber > > > > bill 1433 wrote: > > >  > > > > > > Check on the algae eater but far as I know, none > eat > > the black stuff. > > > Your right, i've got to figure out the "Y" part. > > Lights on 10 to 12 > > > but they are standard tubes, 17watts each for the > 20 > > and 29. > > > > > > Food? Very high protein stuff from Ken's up in > Mass. > > > Fish love it. > > > > > > Bill > > > > > > --- On Mon, 9/21/09, Lenny V. aka GoldLenny > <GoldLenny@... > > > > > <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com>> wrote: > > > > > > > From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@... > > > <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com>> > > > > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Black Algae > Problem > > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > Date: Monday, September 21, 2009, 1:28 PM I > guess > > the SeaChem > > > > Flourish Excel might be your preferred > choice... > > BUT... > > > > remember that if you do not figure out the > cause > > and fix the cause, > > > > it will simply return, so you still have to > > figure out the cause. > > > > > > > > Presuming you are keeping any cycling issues > in > > check and thus > > > > keeping nitrates at a low enough level, > below > > 20ppm, then I would > > > > highly suspect either too much lighting (how > long > > do you leave them > > > > on each day and how much lighting do you > have?) > > or direct sunlight > > > > or other nutrients (mainly > > > > phosphates) that you may be getting from > your > > well water or from > > > > many foods that list phosphorous > percentages > > (I've seen many that > > > > have MUCH higher levels than others). > > > > > > > > I'm looking at three of my store bought > foods > > right now.  Omega One > > > > Medium Goldfish Pellets lists "Min. > Phosphorous > > (0.5%)".  I'm not > > > > sure why it's in brackets ( ), as the other > > analysis levels are not > > > > in brackets... could this mean negative???, > I > > have to check with > > > > Omega One.  My Hikari Algae Wafers has > > "Guaranteed Analysis" as > > > > "Phosphorous min 0.7%" but then in a > separate > > section called > > > > "Typical Analysis", it has "Phosphorous > > 1.4%".  My Hagen Nutrafin > > > > Max Goldfish Flake Food has "Phosphorous > min > > 0.5%, max 0.9%". > > > > > > > > I've seen other foods where they "advertise" > on > > the package of > > > > having less than 3% phosphorous or something > like > > that, which means > > > > they are simply taking advantage of the > > uninformed as those levels > > > > of phosphorous are 3X to 6X the levels of > the > > three foods I just > > > > listed and even the Hikari Algae Wafers has > > nearly 2X to 3X more > > > > than the other two. > > > > > > > > As usual with store bought foods, check the > > ingredients. > > > > > > > > Last but not least, if you have bioload room > in > > the tanks and cannot > > > > figure out the cause of the algae, you might > want > > to consider a > > > > small algae eater. > > > > > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > > (Links to any articles referenced in above > reply > > are listed on the > > > > right side, alphabetically under Labels and > also > > under Archives by > > > > Year, Month) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] > > > > On > > > > Behalf Of bill 1433 > > > > Sent: Monday, September 21, 2009 11:48 AM > > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Black Algae > Problem > > > > > > > > Len, > > > > > > > > I understand what your trying to say and > thanks > > for the help but the > > > > problem is the stuff is everywhere.  Not > > real heavy and can usually > > > > just be wiped off with the clean cloth, the > > problems come in at the > > > > "where" part. > > > > > > > > For instance pieces of gravel, not all mind > you > > just some, you know, > > > > so you'll notice it! > > > > > > > > What I need is a way to dose the whole tank > at > > once without having > > > > to worry about checking for survivors when > I'm > > done.  The hp seems > > > > to infer direct contact.  Working with a > > syringe it would probably > > > > take me to Christmas to get the whole tank > done > > by this method, > > > > which is why I'm looking at Seachem. > > > > Now if there was some way of using the HP in > this > > method it would be > > > > great but most articles seem to infer this > direct > > contact approach. > > > > > > > > Thanks, Bill > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > --- On Mon, 9/21/09, Lenny V. aka GoldLenny > > <GoldLenny@... > > > <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com>> > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@... > > > <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com>> > > > > > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Black Algae > > Problem > > > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > > > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > Date: Monday, September 21, 2009, 12:21 > PM I > > know > > > > TheKrib's thread is > > > > > from late 1990's - early 2000's but IT > is > > some of the > > > > best info out > > > > > there on the net.  EVERY forum thread > > that I've ever > > > > seen in any other > > > > > forum still refers to TheKrib's thread > as > > THE guide > > > > for using Hydrogen > > > > > Peroxide.  I know the dosages are or > > can be confusing > > > > in that thread > > > > > as that was raw data compiled by > posting > > around 20 > > > > experienced replies > > > > > to make that page, which is why I > included > > the one > > > > paragraph about > > > > > what the safe dosage was, as I know it > from > > reading > > > > many other forum > > > > > threads over the years and using it > myself > > in the > > > > past. > > > > > > > > > > 1 oz. per 10G has been used on tanks > with > > fry but if > > > > you are more > > > > > concerned, halve that dosage.  Do the > > dosing during > > > > the day so the > > > > > lights stay on for a while after the > dose as > > light > > > > helps to break down > > > > > the HP faster.  Since you are using a > > syringe (minus > > > > needle) to apply > > > > > the HP, it's the direct contact of the > HP on > > the algae > > > > that does the > > > > > job and then the HP breaks down into > water > > and > > > > oxygen.  Do a PWC the > > > > > next day (or even be prepared to do a > PWC > > after dosing > > > > if your fish > > > > > are showing any signs of distress but > the 1 > > oz. > > > > > per 10G should be OK.  1 oz. equals > > around 30ml > > > > (actually 29.57ml if > > > > > you have a highly calibrated > syringe... > > lol). > > > > > > > > > > In TheKrib's page, there were people > who > > experimented > > > > with using as > > > > > much as 60ml per 10G (2 oz. per 10G) > which > > was found > > > > to cause issues > > > > > for sensitive snails and ghost shrimp > and > > some fish. > > > > Others would > > > > > dose with their filters off, worried > about > > the HP > > > > causing harm to the > > > > > filters, but that could also cause > problems > > as it did > > > > not > > > > > disperse/dilute the HP fast enough in > the > > water > > > > column.  Just leave > > > > > your filters running BUT do not squirt > the > > HP close > > > > enough to a filter > > > > > intake.  If you need to dose near the > > filter, unplug > > > > it for a moment, > > > > > do the dose, use something to stir up > the > > water in > > > > that area, then > > > > > turn the filter back on.  Leave the > > lights on for > > > > several hours after > > > > > using HP.  Do the PWC the next day > and > > dose again as > > > > needed. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > As far as the Excel, which is an > EXPENSIVE > > alternative > > > > treatment, here > > > > > are a couple of forum threads on the > topic, > > with some > > > > users using up > > > > > to 5X the proper dose of Excel, every > 3 > > days. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > http://www.aquaticplantcentral.com/forumapc/algae/3806-flourish-excel- > > > got-ri > > > <http://www.aquaticplantcentral.com/forumapc/algae/3806-flourish-excel > > > -got-ri> > > > > d-all-my.html (25 page thread) > > > > > > > > > > SeaChem's official reply. > > > > > http://www.seachem.com/support/forums/showthread.php?t=682 > > > <http://www.seachem.com/support/forums/showthread.php?t=682> > > > > > > > > > > The top FAQ on this page is another of > > SeaChem's > > > > official replies. > > > > > http://www.seachem.com/support/FAQs/FlourishExcel.html > > > <http://www.seachem.com/support/FAQs/FlourishExcel.html> > > > > > > > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > > > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> (Links > > to > > > > any articles > > > > > referenced in above reply are listed on > the > > right > > > > side, alphabetically > > > > > under Labels and also under Archives > by > > Year, Month) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] > > > > > On > > > > > Behalf Of bill 1433 > > > > > Sent: Monday, September 21, 2009 8:40 > AM > > > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > > > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Black Algae > > Problem > > > > > > > > > > Hi Len, > > > > >  > > > > > \\Steve// also suggested this BUT, even > with > > the links > > > > you > > > > > sent (some dated) > > > > > it appears that there is great > controversy > > over > > > > dosage. > > > > >  > > > > > The fish in the tank are 9 rams at 5 > months > > old and 3 > > > > Cory > > > > > cats.  Those Rams > > > > > were a long time coming and I really > don't > > want > > > > anything to > > > > > happen to them. > > > > >  > > > > > On the other hand, some for other > groups > > mention the > > > > use of > > > > > SeaChem's Excel > > > > > but again, nobody seems to have an > dosage > > level for positive > > > > > results. > > > > > Looking at their web-site they do > mention > > this on > > > > their > > > > > support page but > > > > > since this is a by-pass type of > reaction > > they are not > > > > being > > > > > specific as to > > > > > dosage either.  Unless they just mean > > to use the > > > > product > > > > > by its instructions > > > > > on the bottle to boost carbon for > plants. > > > > Information so > > > > > far has been "ify" > > > > > at best.  I don't want to hurt those > > Rams. > > > > >  > > > > > Bill--where Rams Rule! > > > > > > > > > > --- On Mon, 9/21/09, Lenny V. aka > GoldLenny > > <GoldLenny@... > > > <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com>> > > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny > <GoldLenny@... > > > <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com>> > > > > > > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Black > Algae > > Problem > > > > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > Date: Monday, September 21, 2009, > 1:29 > > AM Bill, > > > > > > > > > > > > If I recall correctly, you do NOT > have > > any live > > > > > plants... > > > > > > right? > > > > > > > > > > > > Here's a thread about using HP > for > > algae issues, > > > > > including suggested > > > > > > dosages, etc. > > > > > > > > > > > > http://www.thekrib.com/Plants/Algae/hydrogen-peroxide.html > > > <http://www.thekrib.com/Plants/Algae/hydrogen-peroxide.html> > > > > > > > > > > > > And an article. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > http://www.malawicichlidhomepage.com/aquainfo/algae_peroxide.html > > > <http://www.malawicichlidhomepage.com/aquainfo/algae_peroxide.html> > > > > > > > > > > > > The basic safe dose for fish and > plants > > is 1 oz. > > > > per > > > > > 10G per day, with > > > > > > PWC's between each treatment and > do not > > dose the > > > > tank > > > > > close to the > > > > > > intake to your filter(s).  If > you > > have > > > > sensitive > > > > > shrimp or snails and > > > > > > someone mentioned oto's, then you > might > > want to > > > > halve > > > > > that dosage. > > > > > > > > > > > > One other question, are you sure > you > > have "black > > > > > algae".  Algae is > > > > > > another thing in the aquarium > hobby > > that suffers > > > > from > > > > > common name > > > > > > abuse so look over these articles > and I > > can give > > > > you > > > > > several other > > > > > > sites about algae, if you don't > have > > them > > > > already, for > > > > > even more > > > > > > reading. > > > > > > You'll see what I mean > > > > > > about the common name problem. > > > > > > > > > > > > If your water testing is showing > low > > levels of > > > > > nitrates and other > > > > > > nitrogenous compounds, then you > might > > want to > > > > check > > > > > your phosphate > > > > > > levels in your source water and > > tank.  Also, > > > > many > > > > > fish foods are a BIG > > > > > > source of phosphates so check them > also > > and > > > > maybe > > > > > change over to a > > > > > > lower phosphate level food. > > > > > > > > > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > > > > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> (Links > > to > > > > > any articles > > > > > > referenced in above reply are > listed on > > the > > > > right > > > > > side, alphabetically > > > > > > under Labels and also under > Archives by > > Year, > > > > Month) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > > > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] > > > > > > On > > > > > > Behalf Of Steve Szabo > > > > > > Sent: Sunday, September 20, 2009 > 10:50 > > PM > > > > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Black > Algae > > Problem > > > > > > > > > > > > Bill, > > > > > > > > > > > > Get some hydrogen peroxide > (normally > > found in a > > > > 3% > > > > > > solution) and a syringe. > > > > > > With the syringe, apply the > hydrogen > > peroxide > > > > directly > > > > > to > > > > > > the black algae. > > > > > > This should kill the black algae > > without harming > > > > any > > > > > plants > > > > > > or fish in the > > > > > > process, since hydrogen peroxide > will > > break down > > > > > fairly > > > > > > rapidly to the main > > > > > > components, water and oxygen, > > > > > > > > > > > > \\Steve// > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > > > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] > > > > > > On > > > > > > Behalf Of bill 1433 > > > > > > Sent: Sunday, September 20, 2009 > 11:23 > > PM > > > > > > To: AquaticLife > > > > > > Subject: [AquaticLife] Black > Algae > > Problem > > > > > > > > > > > > I have started getting a black > algae > > problem that > > > > I > > > > > am > > > > > > trying to live with > > > > > > but have not been able to > > conquer.  The tanks > > > > are a > > > > > > standard 29-gallon Ram > > > > > > tank and a 20-gallon long with > Neon > > Tetras in > > > > it. > > > > > >  > > > > > > I may have posted this problem a > few > > months ago > > > > and > > > > > have > > > > > > been living with it > > > > > > through cleaning and water changes > but > > the > > > > problem > > > > > has > > > > > > never really > > > > > > completely cleared.  Someone > > mentioned the use > > > > of > > > > > > Seachem's Excel to kill it > > > > > > but I'm not sure of proper dosage > or > > how long. > > > > All > > > > > water > > > > > > tests are fine and > > > > > > pH is 7.0 > > > > > > > > > > > > Bill > > > > > > > > > > > ------------------------------------ > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when > replying, Thank You. > ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> > ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> > PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is > NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of > the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new > subject (was re: old subject)" <- > <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. > , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. > > If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of > unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by > clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the home page.  > > Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com > to receive the digest, which includes up to 25 posts at a > time in a single email > > Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com > for the No E-Mail option where you will still be able to > read messages on the group and post replies. > > Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com > to receive individual e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links > > >     mailto:AquaticLife-fullfeatured@yahoogroups.com > > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 43538	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 9/22/2009
Subject: Re: Black Algae Problem

OK... while I agree that it could be and probably is Cyanobacteria, which is actually another misnamed algae, BGA = Blue Green Algae = Cyanobacteria, like the other common issue that is misnamed "Brown Algae", which are actually Diatoms, so lets be sure before you go out and buy erythromycin. Bill, Here's a couple of decent sites with lots of photos of the various algae's that we commonly get. See if yours is shown on either of these pages. http://www.plantgeek.net/article_viewer.php?id=9 http://www.theplantedtank.co.uk/algae.htm This is why I kept asking which website you went to that came up with the original thing that you called "black algae". See which of these you think most closely or identically matches what you have and let us know. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of bill 1433 Sent: Tuesday, September 22, 2009 8:17 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Black Algae Problem I'm sorry \\Steve// maybe I should have tried to describe it better. One of those things like, "It sounds right to me type of things" but others cannot make sense of it. Also I should have added that the algae was a beautiful green and suddenly changed to its now darker color in addition it never looked like the pictures in Lenny's links that he posted, it was never "hairy". Thanks for your help and replies so far, Bill --- On Tue, 9/22/09, Steve Szabo <steve@...> wrote: > From: Steve Szabo <steve@...> > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Black Algae Problem > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Date: Tuesday, September 22, 2009, 12:16 AM Bill, > > Then it is probably a form of cyanobacteria, more commonly known as > blue-green algae. In this case, erythromycin is what you should use to > cure it, but this can also harm your nitrification bacteria, so you > will need to keep an eye on your tank's nitrogen levels. > > \\Steve// > > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] > On Behalf Of bill 1433 > Sent: Monday, September 21, 2009 11:26 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Black Algae Problem > > Sorry Len, > > None of the above.  It could be like dark blue green or once was.  It > just sits there and if wiped off or distrubed, its like a small sheet > floating around the tank. > > Bill > > --- On Mon, 9/21/09, Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@...> > wrote: > > > From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@...> > > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Black Algae Problem > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > Date: Monday, September 21, 2009, 8:38 PM Bill, > > > > Did you use a particular website in determining the > common > > name of your > > algae?  I often see names like Black Algae, Black Brush Algae, etc., > > thrown around and without pictures, it's tough to know what > a > > particular site or > > fish keeper may be talking about. > > > > Here's that MalawiCichlid page about Hydrogen Peroxide > and > > the top few > > pictures show "Black Algae".  Is this what you have? > > http://www.malawicichlidhomepage.com/aquainfo/algae_peroxide.html > > > > Other sites describe "Black Algae" as sheets of dark > green > > to blackish > > looking slimy algae when they are probably talking > about > > BGA - Blue Green > > Algae - Cyanobacteria. > > http://badmanstropicalfish.com/mb/mb16.html > > > > AmericanAquariumProducts, a reliable site, has this > picture > > of Black Beard > > Algae. > > http://www.americanaquariumproducts.com/images/graphics/bbalgae2.jpg > > > > Anyhow, let us know what you have so we can be sure > we're > > all on the same > > page... so to speak. > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles > > referenced in above reply are > listed > > on the right > > side, alphabetically under Labels and also under > Archives > > by Year, Month) > >  > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] > > On > > Behalf Of Amber Berglund > > Sent: Tuesday, September 22, 2009 5:16 PM > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Black Algae Problem > > > > I have been told word of mouth that Platy's and > Guppy's > > will nibble on the > > black beard algae, but only if you practically starve > them > > ;) LOL. > > So basically it's pointless to try getting a fish that > eats > > the algae as > > they will always prefer the food you feed them over > the > > algae growing in the > > tank ;) I have seen my guppy's and platy's nibble on > it, > > but not all the > > time, usually when they're foraging for food they > will > > "taste test" the > > algae too. > > > > Amber > > > > bill 1433 wrote: > > >  > > > > > > Check on the algae eater but far as I know, none > eat > > the black stuff. > > > Your right, i've got to figure out the "Y" part. > > Lights on 10 to 12 > > > but they are standard tubes, 17watts each for the > 20 > > and 29. > > > > > > Food? Very high protein stuff from Ken's up in > Mass. > > > Fish love it. > > > > > > Bill > > > > > > --- On Mon, 9/21/09, Lenny V. aka GoldLenny > <GoldLenny@... > > > > > <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com>> wrote: > > > > > > > From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@... > > > <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com>> > > > > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Black Algae > Problem > > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > Date: Monday, September 21, 2009, 1:28 PM I > guess > > the SeaChem > > > > Flourish Excel might be your preferred > choice... > > BUT... > > > > remember that if you do not figure out the > cause > > and fix the cause, > > > > it will simply return, so you still have to > > figure out the cause. > > > > > > > > Presuming you are keeping any cycling issues > in > > check and thus > > > > keeping nitrates at a low enough level, > below > > 20ppm, then I would > > > > highly suspect either too much lighting (how > long > > do you leave them > > > > on each day and how much lighting do you > have?) > > or direct sunlight > > > > or other nutrients (mainly > > > > phosphates) that you may be getting from > your > > well water or from > > > > many foods that list phosphorous > percentages > > (I've seen many that > > > > have MUCH higher levels than others). > > > > > > > > I'm looking at three of my store bought > foods > > right now.  Omega One > > > > Medium Goldfish Pellets lists "Min. > Phosphorous > > (0.5%)".  I'm not > > > > sure why it's in brackets ( ), as the other > > analysis levels are not > > > > in brackets... could this mean negative???, > I > > have to check with > > > > Omega One.  My Hikari Algae Wafers has > > "Guaranteed Analysis" as > > > > "Phosphorous min 0.7%" but then in a > separate > > section called > > > > "Typical Analysis", it has "Phosphorous > > 1.4%".  My Hagen Nutrafin > > > > Max Goldfish Flake Food has "Phosphorous > min > > 0.5%, max 0.9%". > > > > > > > > I've seen other foods where they "advertise" > on > > the package of > > > > having less than 3% phosphorous or something > like > > that, which means > > > > they are simply taking advantage of the > > uninformed as those levels > > > > of phosphorous are 3X to 6X the levels of > the > > three foods I just > > > > listed and even the Hikari Algae Wafers has > > nearly 2X to 3X more > > > > than the other two. > > > > > > > > As usual with store bought foods, check the > > ingredients. > > > > > > > > Last but not least, if you have bioload room > in > > the tanks and cannot > > > > figure out the cause of the algae, you might > want > > to consider a > > > > small algae eater. > > > > > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > > (Links to any articles referenced in above > reply > > are listed on the > > > > right side, alphabetically under Labels and > also > > under Archives by > > > > Year, Month) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] > > > > On > > > > Behalf Of bill 1433 > > > > Sent: Monday, September 21, 2009 11:48 AM > > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Black Algae > Problem > > > > > > > > Len, > > > > > > > > I understand what your trying to say and > thanks > > for the help but the > > > > problem is the stuff is everywhere.  Not > > real heavy and can usually > > > > just be wiped off with the clean cloth, the > > problems come in at the > > > > "where" part. > > > > > > > > For instance pieces of gravel, not all mind > you > > just some, you know, > > > > so you'll notice it! > > > > > > > > What I need is a way to dose the whole tank > at > > once without having > > > > to worry about checking for survivors when > I'm > > done.  The hp seems > > > > to infer direct contact.  Working with a > > syringe it would probably > > > > take me to Christmas to get the whole tank > done > > by this method, > > > > which is why I'm looking at Seachem. > > > > Now if there was some way of using the HP in > this > > method it would be > > > > great but most articles seem to infer this > direct > > contact approach. > > > > > > > > Thanks, Bill > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > --- On Mon, 9/21/09, Lenny V. aka GoldLenny > > <GoldLenny@... > > > <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com>> > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@... > > > <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com>> > > > > > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Black Algae > > Problem > > > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > > > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > Date: Monday, September 21, 2009, 12:21 > PM I > > know > > > > TheKrib's thread is > > > > > from late 1990's - early 2000's but IT > is > > some of the > > > > best info out > > > > > there on the net.  EVERY forum thread > > that I've ever > > > > seen in any other > > > > > forum still refers to TheKrib's thread > as > > THE guide > > > > for using Hydrogen > > > > > Peroxide.  I know the dosages are or > > can be confusing > > > > in that thread > > > > > as that was raw data compiled by > posting > > around 20 > > > > experienced replies > > > > > to make that page, which is why I > included > > the one > > > > paragraph about > > > > > what the safe dosage was, as I know it > from > > reading > > > > many other forum > > > > > threads over the years and using it > myself > > in the > > > > past. > > > > > > > > > > 1 oz. per 10G has been used on tanks > with > > fry but if > > > > you are more > > > > > concerned, halve that dosage.  Do the > > dosing during > > > > the day so the > > > > > lights stay on for a while after the > dose as > > light > > > > helps to break down > > > > > the HP faster.  Since you are using a > > syringe (minus > > > > needle) to apply > > > > > the HP, it's the direct contact of the > HP on > > the algae > > > > that does the > > > > > job and then the HP breaks down into > water > > and > > > > oxygen.  Do a PWC the > > > > > next day (or even be prepared to do a > PWC > > after dosing > > > > if your fish > > > > > are showing any signs of distress but > the 1 > > oz. > > > > > per 10G should be OK.  1 oz. equals > > around 30ml > > > > (actually 29.57ml if > > > > > you have a highly calibrated > syringe... > > lol). > > > > > > > > > > In TheKrib's page, there were people > who > > experimented > > > > with using as > > > > > much as 60ml per 10G (2 oz. per 10G) > which > > was found > > > > to cause issues > > > > > for sensitive snails and ghost shrimp > and > > some fish. > > > > Others would > > > > > dose with their filters off, worried > about > > the HP > > > > causing harm to the > > > > > filters, but that could also cause > problems > > as it did > > > > not > > > > > disperse/dilute the HP fast enough in > the > > water > > > > column.  Just leave > > > > > your filters running BUT do not squirt > the > > HP close > > > > enough to a filter > > > > > intake.  If you need to dose near the > > filter, unplug > > > > it for a moment, > > > > > do the dose, use something to stir up > the > > water in > > > > that area, then > > > > > turn the filter back on.  Leave the > > lights on for > > > > several hours after > > > > > using HP.  Do the PWC the next day > and > > dose again as > > > > needed. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > As far as the Excel, which is an > EXPENSIVE > > alternative > > > > treatment, here > > > > > are a couple of forum threads on the > topic, > > with some > > > > users using up > > > > > to 5X the proper dose of Excel, every > 3 > > days. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > http://www.aquaticplantcentral.com/forumapc/algae/3806-flourish-ex > > > cel- > > > got-ri > > > <http://www.aquaticplantcentral.com/forumapc/algae/3806-flourish-e > > > xcel > > > -got-ri> > > > > d-all-my.html (25 page thread) > > > > > > > > > > SeaChem's official reply. > > > > > http://www.seachem.com/support/forums/showthread.php?t=682 > > > <http://www.seachem.com/support/forums/showthread.php?t=682> > > > > > > > > > > The top FAQ on this page is another of > > SeaChem's > > > > official replies. > > > > > http://www.seachem.com/support/FAQs/FlourishExcel.html > > > <http://www.seachem.com/support/FAQs/FlourishExcel.html> > > > > > > > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > > > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> (Links > > to > > > > any articles > > > > > referenced in above reply are listed on > the > > right > > > > side, alphabetically > > > > > under Labels and also under Archives > by > > Year, Month) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] > > > > > On > > > > > Behalf Of bill 1433 > > > > > Sent: Monday, September 21, 2009 8:40 > AM > > > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > > > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Black Algae > > Problem > > > > > > > > > > Hi Len, > > > > >  > > > > > \\Steve// also suggested this BUT, even > with > > the links > > > > you > > > > > sent (some dated) > > > > > it appears that there is great > controversy > > over > > > > dosage. > > > > >  > > > > > The fish in the tank are 9 rams at 5 > months > > old and 3 > > > > Cory > > > > > cats.  Those Rams > > > > > were a long time coming and I really > don't > > want > > > > anything to > > > > > happen to them. > > > > >  > > > > > On the other hand, some for other > groups > > mention the > > > > use of > > > > > SeaChem's Excel > > > > > but again, nobody seems to have an > dosage > > level for positive > > > > > results. > > > > > Looking at their web-site they do > mention > > this on > > > > their > > > > > support page but > > > > > since this is a by-pass type of > reaction > > they are not > > > > being > > > > > specific as to > > > > > dosage either.  Unless they just mean > > to use the > > > > product > > > > > by its instructions > > > > > on the bottle to boost carbon for > plants. > > > > Information so > > > > > far has been "ify" > > > > > at best.  I don't want to hurt those > > Rams. > > > > >  > > > > > Bill--where Rams Rule! > > > > > > > > > > --- On Mon, 9/21/09, Lenny V. aka > GoldLenny > > <GoldLenny@... > > > <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com>> > > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny > <GoldLenny@... > > > <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com>> > > > > > > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Black > Algae > > Problem > > > > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > Date: Monday, September 21, 2009, > 1:29 > > AM Bill, > > > > > > > > > > > > If I recall correctly, you do NOT > have > > any live > > > > > plants... > > > > > > right? > > > > > > > > > > > > Here's a thread about using HP > for > > algae issues, > > > > > including suggested > > > > > > dosages, etc. > > > > > > > > > > > > http://www.thekrib.com/Plants/Algae/hydrogen-peroxide.html > > > <http://www.thekrib.com/Plants/Algae/hydrogen-peroxide.html> > > > > > > > > > > > > And an article. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > http://www.malawicichlidhomepage.com/aquainfo/algae_peroxide.html > > > <http://www.malawicichlidhomepage.com/aquainfo/algae_peroxide.html > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > The basic safe dose for fish and > plants > > is 1 oz. > > > > per > > > > > 10G per day, with > > > > > > PWC's between each treatment and > do not > > dose the > > > > tank > > > > > close to the > > > > > > intake to your filter(s).  If > you > > have > > > > sensitive > > > > > shrimp or snails and > > > > > > someone mentioned oto's, then you > might > > want to > > > > halve > > > > > that dosage. > > > > > > > > > > > > One other question, are you sure > you > > have "black > > > > > algae".  Algae is > > > > > > another thing in the aquarium > hobby > > that suffers > > > > from > > > > > common name > > > > > > abuse so look over these articles > and I > > can give > > > > you > > > > > several other > > > > > > sites about algae, if you don't > have > > them > > > > already, for > > > > > even more > > > > > > reading. > > > > > > You'll see what I mean > > > > > > about the common name problem. > > > > > > > > > > > > If your water testing is showing > low > > levels of > > > > > nitrates and other > > > > > > nitrogenous compounds, then you > might > > want to > > > > check > > > > > your phosphate > > > > > > levels in your source water and > > tank.  Also, > > > > many > > > > > fish foods are a BIG > > > > > > source of phosphates so check them > also > > and > > > > maybe > > > > > change over to a > > > > > > lower phosphate level food. > > > > > > > > > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > > > > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> (Links > > to > > > > > any articles > > > > > > referenced in above reply are > listed on > > the > > > > right > > > > > side, alphabetically > > > > > > under Labels and also under > Archives by > > Year, > > > > Month) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > > > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] > > > > > > On > > > > > > Behalf Of Steve Szabo > > > > > > Sent: Sunday, September 20, 2009 > 10:50 > > PM > > > > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Black > Algae > > Problem > > > > > > > > > > > > Bill, > > > > > > > > > > > > Get some hydrogen peroxide > (normally > > found in a > > > > 3% > > > > > > solution) and a syringe. > > > > > > With the syringe, apply the > hydrogen > > peroxide > > > > directly > > > > > to > > > > > > the black algae. > > > > > > This should kill the black algae > > without harming > > > > any > > > > > plants > > > > > > or fish in the > > > > > > process, since hydrogen peroxide > will > > break down > > > > > fairly > > > > > > rapidly to the main > > > > > > components, water and oxygen, > > > > > > > > > > > > \\Steve// > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > > > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] > > > > > > On > > > > > > Behalf Of bill 1433 > > > > > > Sent: Sunday, September 20, 2009 > 11:23 > > PM > > > > > > To: AquaticLife > > > > > > Subject: [AquaticLife] Black > Algae > > Problem > > > > > > > > > > > > I have started getting a black > algae > > problem that > > > > I > > > > > am > > > > > > trying to live with > > > > > > but have not been able to > > conquer.  The tanks > > > > are a > > > > > > standard 29-gallon Ram > > > > > > tank and a 20-gallon long with > Neon > > Tetras in > > > > it. > > > > > >  > > > > > > I may have posted this problem a > few > > months ago > > > > and > > > > > have > > > > > > been living with it > > > > > > through cleaning and water changes > but > > the > > > > problem > > > > > has > > > > > > never really > > > > > > completely cleared.  Someone > > mentioned the use > > > > of > > > > > > Seachem's Excel to kill it > > > > > > but I'm not sure of proper dosage > or > > how long. > > > > All > > > > > water > > > > > > tests are fine and > > > > > > pH is 7.0 > > > > > > > > > > > > Bill

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 43539	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 9/22/2009
Subject: Re: Black Algae Problem

Oops.. I forgot this page too, along with the other two good pages with good pictures of various algaes. http://www.sydneycichlid.com/algae.htm Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of bill 1433 Sent: Tuesday, September 22, 2009 8:17 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Black Algae Problem I'm sorry \\Steve// maybe I should have tried to describe it better. One of those things like, "It sounds right to me type of things" but others cannot make sense of it. Also I should have added that the algae was a beautiful green and suddenly changed to its now darker color in addition it never looked like the pictures in Lenny's links that he posted, it was never "hairy". Thanks for your help and replies so far, Bill --- On Tue, 9/22/09, Steve Szabo <steve@...> wrote: > From: Steve Szabo <steve@...> > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Black Algae Problem > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Date: Tuesday, September 22, 2009, 12:16 AM Bill, > > Then it is probably a form of cyanobacteria, more commonly known as > blue-green algae. In this case, erythromycin is what you should use to > cure it, but this can also harm your nitrification bacteria, so you > will need to keep an eye on your tank's nitrogen levels. > > \\Steve// > > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] > On Behalf Of bill 1433 > Sent: Monday, September 21, 2009 11:26 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Black Algae Problem > > Sorry Len, > > None of the above.  It could be like dark blue green or once was.  It > just sits there and if wiped off or distrubed, its like a small sheet > floating around the tank. > > Bill > > --- On Mon, 9/21/09, Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@...> > wrote: > > > From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@...> > > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Black Algae Problem > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > Date: Monday, September 21, 2009, 8:38 PM Bill, > > > > Did you use a particular website in determining the > common > > name of your > > algae?  I often see names like Black Algae, Black Brush Algae, etc., > > thrown around and without pictures, it's tough to know what > a > > particular site or > > fish keeper may be talking about. > > > > Here's that MalawiCichlid page about Hydrogen Peroxide > and > > the top few > > pictures show "Black Algae".  Is this what you have? > > http://www.malawicichlidhomepage.com/aquainfo/algae_peroxide.html > > > > Other sites describe "Black Algae" as sheets of dark > green > > to blackish > > looking slimy algae when they are probably talking > about > > BGA - Blue Green > > Algae - Cyanobacteria. > > http://badmanstropicalfish.com/mb/mb16.html > > > > AmericanAquariumProducts, a reliable site, has this > picture > > of Black Beard > > Algae. > > http://www.americanaquariumproducts.com/images/graphics/bbalgae2.jpg > > > > Anyhow, let us know what you have so we can be sure > we're > > all on the same > > page... so to speak. > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles > > referenced in above reply are > listed > > on the right > > side, alphabetically under Labels and also under > Archives > > by Year, Month) > >  > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] > > On > > Behalf Of Amber Berglund > > Sent: Tuesday, September 22, 2009 5:16 PM > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Black Algae Problem > > > > I have been told word of mouth that Platy's and > Guppy's > > will nibble on the > > black beard algae, but only if you practically starve > them > > ;) LOL. > > So basically it's pointless to try getting a fish that > eats > > the algae as > > they will always prefer the food you feed them over > the > > algae growing in the > > tank ;) I have seen my guppy's and platy's nibble on > it, > > but not all the > > time, usually when they're foraging for food they > will > > "taste test" the > > algae too. > > > > Amber > > > > bill 1433 wrote: > > >  > > > > > > Check on the algae eater but far as I know, none > eat > > the black stuff. > > > Your right, i've got to figure out the "Y" part. > > Lights on 10 to 12 > > > but they are standard tubes, 17watts each for the > 20 > > and 29. > > > > > > Food? Very high protein stuff from Ken's up in > Mass. > > > Fish love it. > > > > > > Bill > > > > > > --- On Mon, 9/21/09, Lenny V. aka GoldLenny > <GoldLenny@... > > > > > <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com>> wrote: > > > > > > > From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@... > > > <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com>> > > > > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Black Algae > Problem > > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > Date: Monday, September 21, 2009, 1:28 PM I > guess > > the SeaChem > > > > Flourish Excel might be your preferred > choice... > > BUT... > > > > remember that if you do not figure out the > cause > > and fix the cause, > > > > it will simply return, so you still have to > > figure out the cause. > > > > > > > > Presuming you are keeping any cycling issues > in > > check and thus > > > > keeping nitrates at a low enough level, > below > > 20ppm, then I would > > > > highly suspect either too much lighting (how > long > > do you leave them > > > > on each day and how much lighting do you > have?) > > or direct sunlight > > > > or other nutrients (mainly > > > > phosphates) that you may be getting from > your > > well water or from > > > > many foods that list phosphorous > percentages > > (I've seen many that > > > > have MUCH higher levels than others). > > > > > > > > I'm looking at three of my store bought > foods > > right now.  Omega One > > > > Medium Goldfish Pellets lists "Min. > Phosphorous > > (0.5%)".  I'm not > > > > sure why it's in brackets ( ), as the other > > analysis levels are not > > > > in brackets... could this mean negative???, > I > > have to check with > > > > Omega One.  My Hikari Algae Wafers has > > "Guaranteed Analysis" as > > > > "Phosphorous min 0.7%" but then in a > separate > > section called > > > > "Typical Analysis", it has "Phosphorous > > 1.4%".  My Hagen Nutrafin > > > > Max Goldfish Flake Food has "Phosphorous > min > > 0.5%, max 0.9%". > > > > > > > > I've seen other foods where they "advertise" > on > > the package of > > > > having less than 3% phosphorous or something > like > > that, which means > > > > they are simply taking advantage of the > > uninformed as those levels > > > > of phosphorous are 3X to 6X the levels of > the > > three foods I just > > > > listed and even the Hikari Algae Wafers has > > nearly 2X to 3X more > > > > than the other two. > > > > > > > > As usual with store bought foods, check the > > ingredients. > > > > > > > > Last but not least, if you have bioload room > in > > the tanks and cannot > > > > figure out the cause of the algae, you might > want > > to consider a > > > > small algae eater. > > > > > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > > (Links to any articles referenced in above > reply > > are listed on the > > > > right side, alphabetically under Labels and > also > > under Archives by > > > > Year, Month) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] > > > > On > > > > Behalf Of bill 1433 > > > > Sent: Monday, September 21, 2009 11:48 AM > > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Black Algae > Problem > > > > > > > > Len, > > > > > > > > I understand what your trying to say and > thanks > > for the help but the > > > > problem is the stuff is everywhere.  Not > > real heavy and can usually > > > > just be wiped off with the clean cloth, the > > problems come in at the > > > > "where" part. > > > > > > > > For instance pieces of gravel, not all mind > you > > just some, you know, > > > > so you'll notice it! > > > > > > > > What I need is a way to dose the whole tank > at > > once without having > > > > to worry about checking for survivors when > I'm > > done.  The hp seems > > > > to infer direct contact.  Working with a > > syringe it would probably > > > > take me to Christmas to get the whole tank > done > > by this method, > > > > which is why I'm looking at Seachem. > > > > Now if there was some way of using the HP in > this > > method it would be > > > > great but most articles seem to infer this > direct > > contact approach. > > > > > > > > Thanks, Bill > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > --- On Mon, 9/21/09, Lenny V. aka GoldLenny > > <GoldLenny@... > > > <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com>> > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@... > > > <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com>> > > > > > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Black Algae > > Problem > > > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > > > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > Date: Monday, September 21, 2009, 12:21 > PM I > > know > > > > TheKrib's thread is > > > > > from late 1990's - early 2000's but IT > is > > some of the > > > > best info out > > > > > there on the net.  EVERY forum thread > > that I've ever > > > > seen in any other > > > > > forum still refers to TheKrib's thread > as > > THE guide > > > > for using Hydrogen > > > > > Peroxide.  I know the dosages are or > > can be confusing > > > > in that thread > > > > > as that was raw data compiled by > posting > > around 20 > > > > experienced replies > > > > > to make that page, which is why I > included > > the one > > > > paragraph about > > > > > what the safe dosage was, as I know it > from > > reading > > > > many other forum > > > > > threads over the years and using it > myself > > in the > > > > past. > > > > > > > > > > 1 oz. per 10G has been used on tanks > with > > fry but if > > > > you are more > > > > > concerned, halve that dosage.  Do the > > dosing during > > > > the day so the > > > > > lights stay on for a while after the > dose as > > light > > > > helps to break down > > > > > the HP faster.  Since you are using a > > syringe (minus > > > > needle) to apply > > > > > the HP, it's the direct contact of the > HP on > > the algae > > > > that does the > > > > > job and then the HP breaks down into > water > > and > > > > oxygen.  Do a PWC the > > > > > next day (or even be prepared to do a > PWC > > after dosing > > > > if your fish > > > > > are showing any signs of distress but > the 1 > > oz. > > > > > per 10G should be OK.  1 oz. equals > > around 30ml > > > > (actually 29.57ml if > > > > > you have a highly calibrated > syringe... > > lol). > > > > > > > > > > In TheKrib's page, there were people > who > > experimented > > > > with using as > > > > > much as 60ml per 10G (2 oz. per 10G) > which > > was found > > > > to cause issues > > > > > for sensitive snails and ghost shrimp > and > > some fish. > > > > Others would > > > > > dose with their filters off, worried > about > > the HP > > > > causing harm to the > > > > > filters, but that could also cause > problems > > as it did > > > > not > > > > > disperse/dilute the HP fast enough in > the > > water > > > > column.  Just leave > > > > > your filters running BUT do not squirt > the > > HP close > > > > enough to a filter > > > > > intake.  If you need to dose near the > > filter, unplug > > > > it for a moment, > > > > > do the dose, use something to stir up > the > > water in > > > > that area, then > > > > > turn the filter back on.  Leave the > > lights on for > > > > several hours after > > > > > using HP.  Do the PWC the next day > and > > dose again as > > > > needed. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > As far as the Excel, which is an > EXPENSIVE > > alternative > > > > treatment, here > > > > > are a couple of forum threads on the > topic, > > with some > > > > users using up > > > > > to 5X the proper dose of Excel, every > 3 > > days. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > http://www.aquaticplantcentral.com/forumapc/algae/3806-flourish-ex > > > cel- > > > got-ri > > > <http://www.aquaticplantcentral.com/forumapc/algae/3806-flourish-e > > > xcel > > > -got-ri> > > > > d-all-my.html (25 page thread) > > > > > > > > > > SeaChem's official reply. > > > > > http://www.seachem.com/support/forums/showthread.php?t=682 > > > <http://www.seachem.com/support/forums/showthread.php?t=682> > > > > > > > > > > The top FAQ on this page is another of > > SeaChem's > > > > official replies. > > > > > http://www.seachem.com/support/FAQs/FlourishExcel.html > > > <http://www.seachem.com/support/FAQs/FlourishExcel.html> > > > > > > > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > > > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> (Links > > to > > > > any articles > > > > > referenced in above reply are listed on > the > > right > > > > side, alphabetically > > > > > under Labels and also under Archives > by > > Year, Month) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] > > > > > On > > > > > Behalf Of bill 1433 > > > > > Sent: Monday, September 21, 2009 8:40 > AM > > > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > > > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Black Algae > > Problem > > > > > > > > > > Hi Len, > > > > >  > > > > > \\Steve// also suggested this BUT, even > with > > the links > > > > you > > > > > sent (some dated) > > > > > it appears that there is great > controversy > > over > > > > dosage. > > > > >  > > > > > The fish in the tank are 9 rams at 5 > months > > old and 3 > > > > Cory > > > > > cats.  Those Rams > > > > > were a long time coming and I really > don't > > want > > > > anything to > > > > > happen to them. > > > > >  > > > > > On the other hand, some for other > groups > > mention the > > > > use of > > > > > SeaChem's Excel > > > > > but again, nobody seems to have an > dosage > > level for positive > > > > > results. > > > > > Looking at their web-site they do > mention > > this on > > > > their > > > > > support page but > > > > > since this is a by-pass type of > reaction > > they are not > > > > being > > > > > specific as to > > > > > dosage either.  Unless they just mean > > to use the > > > > product > > > > > by its instructions > > > > > on the bottle to boost carbon for > plants. > > > > Information so > > > > > far has been "ify" > > > > > at best.  I don't want to hurt those > > Rams. > > > > >  > > > > > Bill--where Rams Rule! > > > > > > > > > > --- On Mon, 9/21/09, Lenny V. aka > GoldLenny > > <GoldLenny@... > > > <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com>> > > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny > <GoldLenny@... > > > <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com>> > > > > > > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Black > Algae > > Problem > > > > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > Date: Monday, September 21, 2009, > 1:29 > > AM Bill, > > > > > > > > > > > > If I recall correctly, you do NOT > have > > any live > > > > > plants... > > > > > > right? > > > > > > > > > > > > Here's a thread about using HP > for > > algae issues, > > > > > including suggested > > > > > > dosages, etc. > > > > > > > > > > > > http://www.thekrib.com/Plants/Algae/hydrogen-peroxide.html > > > <http://www.thekrib.com/Plants/Algae/hydrogen-peroxide.html> > > > > > > > > > > > > And an article. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > http://www.malawicichlidhomepage.com/aquainfo/algae_peroxide.html > > > <http://www.malawicichlidhomepage.com/aquainfo/algae_peroxide.html > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > The basic safe dose for fish and > plants > > is 1 oz. > > > > per > > > > > 10G per day, with > > > > > > PWC's between each treatment and > do not > > dose the > > > > tank > > > > > close to the > > > > > > intake to your filter(s).  If > you > > have > > > > sensitive > > > > > shrimp or snails and > > > > > > someone mentioned oto's, then you > might > > want to > > > > halve > > > > > that dosage. > > > > > > > > > > > > One other question, are you sure > you > > have "black > > > > > algae".  Algae is > > > > > > another thing in the aquarium > hobby > > that suffers > > > > from > > > > > common name > > > > > > abuse so look over these articles > and I > > can give > > > > you > > > > > several other > > > > > > sites about algae, if you don't > have > > them > > > > already, for > > > > > even more > > > > > > reading. > > > > > > You'll see what I mean > > > > > > about the common name problem. > > > > > > > > > > > > If your water testing is showing > low > > levels of > > > > > nitrates and other > > > > > > nitrogenous compounds, then you > might > > want to > > > > check > > > > > your phosphate > > > > > > levels in your source water and > > tank.  Also, > > > > many > > > > > fish foods are a BIG > > > > > > source of phosphates so check them > also > > and > > > > maybe > > > > > change over to a > > > > > > lower phosphate level food. > > > > > > > > > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > > > > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> (Links > > to > > > > > any articles > > > > > > referenced in above reply are > listed on > > the > > > > right > > > > > side, alphabetically > > > > > > under Labels and also under > Archives by > > Year, > > > > Month) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > > > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] > > > > > > On > > > > > > Behalf Of Steve Szabo > > > > > > Sent: Sunday, September 20, 2009 > 10:50 > > PM > > > > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Black > Algae > > Problem > > > > > > > > > > > > Bill, > > > > > > > > > > > > Get some hydrogen peroxide > (normally > > found in a > > > > 3% > > > > > > solution) and a syringe. > > > > > > With the syringe, apply the > hydrogen > > peroxide > > > > directly > > > > > to > > > > > > the black algae. > > > > > > This should kill the black algae > > without harming > > > > any > > > > > plants > > > > > > or fish in the > > > > > > process, since hydrogen peroxide > will > > break down > > > > > fairly > > > > > > rapidly to the main > > > > > > components, water and oxygen, > > > > > > > > > > > > \\Steve// > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > > > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] > > > > > > On > > > > > > Behalf Of bill 1433 > > > > > > Sent: Sunday, September 20, 2009 > 11:23 > > PM > > > > > > To: AquaticLife > > > > > > Subject: [AquaticLife] Black > Algae > > Problem > > > > > > > > > > > > I have started getting a black > algae > > problem that > > > > I > > > > > am > > > > > > trying to live with > > > > > > but have not been able to > > conquer.  The tanks > > > > are a > > > > > > standard 29-gallon Ram > > > > > > tank and a 20-gallon long with > Neon > > Tetras in > > > > it. > > > > > >  > > > > > > I may have posted this problem a > few > > months ago > > > > and > > > > > have > > > > > > been living with it > > > > > > through cleaning and water changes > but > > the > > > > problem > > > > > has > > > > > > never really > > > > > > completely cleared.  Someone > > mentioned the use > > > > of > > > > > > Seachem's Excel to kill it > > > > > > but I'm not sure of proper dosage > or > > how long. > > > > All > > > > > water > > > > > > tests are fine and > > > > > > pH is 7.0 > > > > > > > > > > > > Bill > > > > > > > > > > > ------------------------------------ > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank > You. > ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> > ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> > PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT > important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message > MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- > <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. > , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. > > If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of unsubscribing, > you can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My > Membership" on the home page. > > Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com > to receive the digest, which includes up to 25 posts at a time in a > single email > > Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com > for the No E-Mail option where you will still be able to read messages > on the group and post replies. > > Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com > to receive individual e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links > > >     mailto:AquaticLife-fullfeatured@yahoogroups.com > > > ------------------------------------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the home page. Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com to receive the digest, which includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com for the No E-Mail option where you will still be able to read messages on the group and post replies. Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com to receive individual e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 43540	From: bill 1433	Date: 9/22/2009
Subject: Re: Black Algae Problem

None of them Len but I thought of another stupid example but good visual side of this. Have you ever worked with spray paint? If so, have you ever fogged the paint (a very light quick coat usually done on glass so that the next coat will stick better and give better coverage)? Well that's what it looks like. Not stringy or hairy. I wish my wife were home, she does a better job with our digital camera than I, my hands are just too big, video is where I shine. You folks are trying to help as best you can and I appreciate all of your efforts but it would certainly be better if the "doctors" could see the patient! Bill --- On Tue, 9/22/09, Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@...> wrote: > From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@...> > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Black Algae Problem > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Date: Tuesday, September 22, 2009, 10:46 AM > OK... while I agree that it could be > and probably is Cyanobacteria, which is > actually another misnamed algae, BGA = Blue Green Algae = > Cyanobacteria, > like the other common issue that is misnamed "Brown Algae", > which are > actually Diatoms, so lets be sure before you go out and buy > erythromycin. > > Bill, > > Here's a couple of decent sites with lots of photos of the > various algae's > that we commonly get.  See if yours is shown on either > of these pages. > > http://www.plantgeek.net/article_viewer.php?id=9 > > http://www.theplantedtank.co.uk/algae.htm > > This is why I kept asking which website you went to that > came up with the > original thing that you called "black algae".  See > which of these you think > most closely or identically matches what you have and let > us know. > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed > on the right > side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives > by Year, Month) > > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] > On > Behalf Of bill 1433 > Sent: Tuesday, September 22, 2009 8:17 AM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Black Algae Problem > > I'm sorry \\Steve// maybe I should have tried to describe > it better. > > One of those things like, "It sounds right to me type of > things" but others > cannot make sense of it.  Also I should have added > that the algae was a > beautiful green and suddenly changed to its now darker > color in addition it > never looked like the pictures in Lenny's links that he > posted, it was never > "hairy". > > Thanks for your help and replies so far, > > Bill > > > --- On Tue, 9/22/09, Steve Szabo <steve@...> > wrote: > > > From: Steve Szabo <steve@...> > > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Black Algae Problem > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > Date: Tuesday, September 22, 2009, 12:16 AM Bill, > > > > Then it is probably a form of cyanobacteria, more > commonly known as > > blue-green algae. In this case, erythromycin is what > you should use to > > cure it, but this can also harm your nitrification > bacteria, so you > > will need to keep an eye on your tank's nitrogen > levels. > > > > \\Steve// > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] > > On Behalf Of bill 1433 > > Sent: Monday, September 21, 2009 11:26 PM > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Black Algae Problem > > > > Sorry Len, > > > > None of the above.  It could be like dark blue green > or once was.  It > > just sits there and if wiped off or distrubed, its > like a small sheet > > floating around the tank. > > > > Bill > > > > --- On Mon, 9/21/09, Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@...> > > wrote: > > > > > From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@...> > > > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Black Algae Problem > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > > Date: Monday, September 21, 2009, 8:38 PM Bill, > > > > > > Did you use a particular website in determining > the > > common > > > name of your > > > algae?  I often see names like Black Algae, > Black Brush Algae, etc., > > > thrown around and without pictures, it's tough to > know what > > a > > > particular site or > > > fish keeper may be talking about. > > > > > > Here's that MalawiCichlid page about Hydrogen > Peroxide > > and > > > the top few > > > pictures show "Black Algae".  Is this what you > have? > > > http://www.malawicichlidhomepage.com/aquainfo/algae_peroxide.html > > > > > > Other sites describe "Black Algae" as sheets of > dark > > green > > > to blackish > > > looking slimy algae when they are probably > talking > > about > > > BGA - Blue Green > > > Algae - Cyanobacteria. > > > http://badmanstropicalfish.com/mb/mb16.html > > > > > > AmericanAquariumProducts, a reliable site, has > this > > picture > > > of Black Beard > > > Algae. > > > http://www.americanaquariumproducts.com/images/graphics/bbalgae2.jpg > > > > > > Anyhow, let us know what you have so we can be > sure > > we're > > > all on the same > > > page... so to speak. > > > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles > > > referenced in above reply are > > listed > > > on the right > > > side, alphabetically under Labels and also under > > Archives > > > by Year, Month) > > >  > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] > > > On > > > Behalf Of Amber Berglund > > > Sent: Tuesday, September 22, 2009 5:16 PM > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Black Algae Problem > > > > > > I have been told word of mouth that Platy's and > > Guppy's > > > will nibble on the > > > black beard algae, but only if you practically > starve > > them > > > ;) LOL. > > > So basically it's pointless to try getting a fish > that > > eats > > > the algae as > > > they will always prefer the food you feed them > over > > the > > > algae growing in the > > > tank ;) I have seen my guppy's and platy's nibble > on > > it, > > > but not all the > > > time, usually when they're foraging for food > they > > will > > > "taste test" the > > > algae too. > > > > > > Amber > > > > > > bill 1433 wrote: > > > >  > > > > > > > > Check on the algae eater but far as I know, > none > > eat > > > the black stuff. > > > > Your right, i've got to figure out the "Y" > part. > > > Lights on 10 to 12 > > > > but they are standard tubes, 17watts each > for the > > 20 > > > and 29. > > > > > > > > Food? Very high protein stuff from Ken's up > in > > Mass. > > > > Fish love it. > > > > > > > > Bill > > > > > > > > --- On Mon, 9/21/09, Lenny V. aka GoldLenny > > <GoldLenny@... > > > > > > > <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com>> > wrote: > > > > > > > > > From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@... > > > > <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com>> > > > > > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Black Algae > > Problem > > > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > > > > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > Date: Monday, September 21, 2009, 1:28 > PM I > > guess > > > the SeaChem > > > > > Flourish Excel might be your preferred > > choice... > > > BUT... > > > > > remember that if you do not figure out > the > > cause > > > and fix the cause, > > > > > it will simply return, so you still > have to > > > figure out the cause. > > > > > > > > > > Presuming you are keeping any cycling > issues > > in > > > check and thus > > > > > keeping nitrates at a low enough > level, > > below > > > 20ppm, then I would > > > > > highly suspect either too much lighting > (how > > long > > > do you leave them > > > > > on each day and how much lighting do > you > > have?) > > > or direct sunlight > > > > > or other nutrients (mainly > > > > > phosphates) that you may be getting > from > > your > > > well water or from > > > > > many foods that list phosphorous > > percentages > > > (I've seen many that > > > > > have MUCH higher levels than others). > > > > > > > > > > I'm looking at three of my store > bought > > foods > > > right now.  Omega One > > > > > Medium Goldfish Pellets lists "Min. > > Phosphorous > > > (0.5%)".  I'm not > > > > > sure why it's in brackets ( ), as the > other > > > analysis levels are not > > > > > in brackets... could this mean > negative???, > > I > > > have to check with > > > > > Omega One.  My Hikari Algae Wafers > has > > > "Guaranteed Analysis" as > > > > > "Phosphorous min 0.7%" but then in a > > separate > > > section called > > > > > "Typical Analysis", it has > "Phosphorous > > > 1.4%".  My Hagen Nutrafin > > > > > Max Goldfish Flake Food has > "Phosphorous > > min > > > 0.5%, max 0.9%". > > > > > > > > > > I've seen other foods where they > "advertise" > > on > > > the package of > > > > > having less than 3% phosphorous or > something > > like > > > that, which means > > > > > they are simply taking advantage of > the > > > uninformed as those levels > > > > > of phosphorous are 3X to 6X the levels > of > > the > > > three foods I just > > > > > listed and even the Hikari Algae Wafers > has > > > nearly 2X to 3X more > > > > > than the other two. > > > > > > > > > > As usual with store bought foods, check > the > > > ingredients. > > > > > > > > > > Last but not least, if you have bioload > room > > in > > > the tanks and cannot > > > > > figure out the cause of the algae, you > might > > want > > > to consider a > > > > > small algae eater. > > > > > > > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > > > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > > > (Links to any articles referenced in > above > > reply > > > are listed on the > > > > > right side, alphabetically under Labels > and > > also > > > under Archives by > > > > > Year, Month) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > > > > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] > > > > > On > > > > > Behalf Of bill 1433 > > > > > Sent: Monday, September 21, 2009 11:48 > AM > > > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > > > > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Black Algae > > Problem > > > > > > > > > > Len, > > > > > > > > > > I understand what your trying to say > and > > thanks > > > for the help but the > > > > > problem is the stuff is everywhere.  > Not > > > real heavy and can usually > > > > > just be wiped off with the clean cloth, > the > > > problems come in at the > > > > > "where" part. > > > > > > > > > > For instance pieces of gravel, not all > mind > > you > > > just some, you know, > > > > > so you'll notice it! > > > > > > > > > > What I need is a way to dose the whole > tank > > at > > > once without having > > > > > to worry about checking for survivors > when > > I'm > > > done.  The hp seems > > > > > to infer direct contact.  Working with > a > > > syringe it would probably > > > > > take me to Christmas to get the whole > tank > > done > > > by this method, > > > > > which is why I'm looking at Seachem. > > > > > Now if there was some way of using the > HP in > > this > > > method it would be > > > > > great but most articles seem to infer > this > > direct > > > contact approach. > > > > > > > > > > Thanks, Bill > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > --- On Mon, 9/21/09, Lenny V. aka > GoldLenny > > > <GoldLenny@... > > > > <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com>> > > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny > <GoldLenny@... > > > > <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com>> > > > > > > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Black > Algae > > > Problem > > > > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > > > > > > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > Date: Monday, September 21, 2009, > 12:21 > > PM I > > > know > > > > > TheKrib's thread is > > > > > > from late 1990's - early 2000's > but IT > > is > > > some of the > > > > > best info out > > > > > > there on the net.  EVERY forum > thread > > > that I've ever > > > > > seen in any other > > > > > > forum still refers to TheKrib's > thread > > as > > > THE guide > > > > > for using Hydrogen > > > > > > Peroxide.  I know the dosages are > or > > > can be confusing > > > > > in that thread > > > > > > as that was raw data compiled by > > posting > > > around 20 > > > > > experienced replies > > > > > > to make that page, which is why I > > included > > > the one > > > > > paragraph about > > > > > > what the safe dosage was, as I > know it > > from > > > reading > > > > > many other forum > > > > > > threads over the years and using > it > > myself > > > in the > > > > > past. > > > > > > > > > > > > 1 oz. per 10G has been used on > tanks > > with > > > fry but if > > > > > you are more > > > > > > concerned, halve that dosage.  Do > the > > > dosing during > > > > > the day so the > > > > > > lights stay on for a while after > the > > dose as > > > light > > > > > helps to break down > > > > > > the HP faster.  Since you are > using a > > > syringe (minus > > > > > needle) to apply > > > > > > the HP, it's the direct contact of > the > > HP on > > > the algae > > > > > that does the > > > > > > job and then the HP breaks down > into > > water > > > and > > > > > oxygen.  Do a PWC the > > > > > > next day (or even be prepared to > do a > > PWC > > > after dosing > > > > > if your fish > > > > > > are showing any signs of distress > but > > the 1 > > > oz. > > > > > > per 10G should be OK.  1 oz. > equals > > > around 30ml > > > > > (actually 29.57ml if > > > > > > you have a highly calibrated > > syringe... > > > lol). > > > > > > > > > > > > In TheKrib's page, there were > people > > who > > > experimented > > > > > with using as > > > > > > much as 60ml per 10G (2 oz. per > 10G) > > which > > > was found > > > > > to cause issues > > > > > > for sensitive snails and ghost > shrimp > > and > > > some fish. > > > > > Others would > > > > > > dose with their filters off, > worried > > about > > > the HP > > > > > causing harm to the > > > > > > filters, but that could also > cause > > problems > > > as it did > > > > > not > > > > > > disperse/dilute the HP fast enough > in > > the > > > water > > > > > column.  Just leave > > > > > > your filters running BUT do not > squirt > > the > > > HP close > > > > > enough to a filter > > > > > > intake.  If you need to dose near > the > > > filter, unplug > > > > > it for a moment, > > > > > > do the dose, use something to stir > up > > the > > > water in > > > > > that area, then > > > > > > turn the filter back on.  Leave > the > > > lights on for > > > > > several hours after > > > > > > using HP.  Do the PWC the next > day > > and > > > dose again as > > > > > needed. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > As far as the Excel, which is an > > EXPENSIVE > > > alternative > > > > > treatment, here > > > > > > are a couple of forum threads on > the > > topic, > > > with some > > > > > users using up > > > > > > to 5X the proper dose of Excel, > every > > 3 > > > days. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > http://www.aquaticplantcentral.com/forumapc/algae/3806-flourish-ex > > > > cel- > > > > got-ri > > > > <http://www.aquaticplantcentral.com/forumapc/algae/3806-flourish-e > > > > xcel > > > > -got-ri> > > > > > d-all-my.html (25 page thread) > > > > > > > > > > > > SeaChem's official reply. > > > > > > http://www.seachem.com/support/forums/showthread.php?t=682 > > > > <http://www.seachem.com/support/forums/showthread.php?t=682> > > > > > > > > > > > > The top FAQ on this page is > another of > > > SeaChem's > > > > > official replies. > > > > > > http://www.seachem.com/support/FAQs/FlourishExcel.html > > > > <http://www.seachem.com/support/FAQs/FlourishExcel.html> > > > > > > > > > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > > > > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> (Links > > > to > > > > > any articles > > > > > > referenced in above reply are > listed on > > the > > > right > > > > > side, alphabetically > > > > > > under Labels and also under > Archives > > by > > > Year, Month) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > > > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] > > > > > > On > > > > > > Behalf Of bill 1433 > > > > > > Sent: Monday, September 21, 2009 > 8:40 > > AM > > > > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > > > > > > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Black > Algae > > > Problem > > > > > > > > > > > > Hi Len, > > > > > >  > > > > > > \\Steve// also suggested this BUT, > even > > with > > > the links > > > > > you > > > > > > sent (some dated) > > > > > > it appears that there is great > > controversy > > > over > > > > > dosage. > > > > > >  > > > > > > The fish in the tank are 9 rams at > 5 > > months > > > old and 3 > > > > > Cory > > > > > > cats.  Those Rams > > > > > > were a long time coming and I > really > > don't > > > want > > > > > anything to > > > > > > happen to them. > > > > > >  > > > > > > On the other hand, some for other > > groups > > > mention the > > > > > use of > > > > > > SeaChem's Excel > > > > > > but again, nobody seems to have > an > > dosage > > > level for positive > > > > > > results. > > > > > > Looking at their web-site they do > > mention > > > this on > > > > > their > > > > > > support page but > > > > > > since this is a by-pass type of > > reaction > > > they are not > > > > > being > > > > > > specific as to > > > > > > dosage either.  Unless they just > mean > > > to use the > > > > > product > > > > > > by its instructions > > > > > > on the bottle to boost carbon for > > plants. > > > > > Information so > > > > > > far has been "ify" > > > > > > at best.  I don't want to hurt > those > > > Rams. > > > > > >  > > > > > > Bill--where Rams Rule! > > > > > > > > > > > > --- On Mon, 9/21/09, Lenny V. aka > > GoldLenny > > > <GoldLenny@... > > > > <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com>> > > > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny > > <GoldLenny@... > > > > <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com>> > > > > > > > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] > Black > > Algae > > > Problem > > > > > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > Date: Monday, September 21, > 2009, > > 1:29 > > > AM Bill, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > If I recall correctly, you do > NOT > > have > > > any live > > > > > > plants... > > > > > > > right? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Here's a thread about using > HP > > for > > > algae issues, > > > > > > including suggested > > > > > > > dosages, etc. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > http://www.thekrib.com/Plants/Algae/hydrogen-peroxide.html > > > > <http://www.thekrib.com/Plants/Algae/hydrogen-peroxide.html> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > And an article. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > http://www.malawicichlidhomepage.com/aquainfo/algae_peroxide.html > > > > <http://www.malawicichlidhomepage.com/aquainfo/algae_peroxide.html > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > The basic safe dose for fish > and > > plants > > > is 1 oz. > > > > > per > > > > > > 10G per day, with > > > > > > > PWC's between each treatment > and > > do not > > > dose the > > > > > tank > > > > > > close to the > > > > > > > intake to your filter(s).  > If > > you > > > have > > > > > sensitive > > > > > > shrimp or snails and > > > > > > > someone mentioned oto's, then > you > > might > > > want to > > > > > halve > > > > > > that dosage. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > One other question, are you > sure > > you > > > have "black > > > > > > algae".  Algae is > > > > > > > another thing in the > aquarium > > hobby > > > that suffers > > > > > from > > > > > > common name > > > > > > > abuse so look over these > articles > > and I > > > can give > > > > > you > > > > > > several other > > > > > > > sites about algae, if you > don't > > have > > > them > > > > > already, for > > > > > > even more > > > > > > > reading. > > > > > > > You'll see what I mean > > > > > > > about the common name > problem. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > If your water testing is > showing > > low > > > levels of > > > > > > nitrates and other > > > > > > > nitrogenous compounds, then > you > > might > > > want to > > > > > check > > > > > > your phosphate > > > > > > > levels in your source water > and > > > tank.  Also, > > > > > many > > > > > > fish foods are a BIG > > > > > > > source of phosphates so check > them > > also > > > and > > > > > maybe > > > > > > change over to a > > > > > > > lower phosphate level food. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > > > > > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> (Links > > > to > > > > > > any articles > > > > > > > referenced in above reply > are > > listed on > > > the > > > > > right > > > > > > side, alphabetically > > > > > > > under Labels and also under > > Archives by > > > Year, > > > > > Month) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > > > > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] > > > > > > > On > > > > > > > Behalf Of Steve Szabo > > > > > > > Sent: Sunday, September 20, > 2009 > > 10:50 > > > PM > > > > > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] > Black > > Algae > > > Problem > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Bill, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Get some hydrogen peroxide > > (normally > > > found in a > > > > > 3% > > > > > > > solution) and a syringe. > > > > > > > With the syringe, apply the > > hydrogen > > > peroxide > > > > > directly > > > > > > to > > > > > > > the black algae. > > > > > > > This should kill the black > algae > > > without harming > > > > > any > > > > > > plants > > > > > > > or fish in the > > > > > > > process, since hydrogen > peroxide > > will > > > break down > > > > > > fairly > > > > > > > rapidly to the main > > > > > > > components, water and > oxygen, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > \\Steve// > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > > > > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] > > > > > > > On > > > > > > > Behalf Of bill 1433 > > > > > > > Sent: Sunday, September 20, > 2009 > > 11:23 > > > PM > > > > > > > To: AquaticLife > > > > > > > Subject: [AquaticLife] Black > > Algae > > > Problem > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I have started getting a > black > > algae > > > problem that > > > > > I > > > > > > am > > > > > > > trying to live with > > > > > > > but have not been able to > > > conquer.  The tanks > > > > > are a > > > > > > > standard 29-gallon Ram > > > > > > > tank and a 20-gallon long > with > > Neon > > > Tetras in > > > > > it. > > > > > > >  > > > > > > > I may have posted this > problem a > > few > > > months ago > > > > > and > > > > > > have > > > > > > > been living with it > > > > > > > through cleaning and water > changes > > but > > > the > > > > > problem > > > > > > has > > > > > > > never really > > > > > > > completely cleared.  > Someone > > > mentioned the use > > > > > of > > > > > > > Seachem's Excel to kill it > > > > > > > but I'm not sure of proper > dosage > > or > > > how long. > > > > > All > > > > > > water > > > > > > > tests are fine and > > > > > > > pH is 7.0 > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Bill > > > > ------------------------------------ > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when > replying, Thank You. > ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> > ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> > PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is > NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of > the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new > subject (was re: old subject)" <- > <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. > , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. > > If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of > unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by > clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the home page.  > > Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com > to receive the digest, which includes up to 25 posts at a > time in a single email > > Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com > for the No E-Mail option where you will still be able to > read messages on the group and post replies. > > Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com > to receive individual e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links > > >     mailto:AquaticLife-fullfeatured@yahoogroups.com > > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 43541	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 9/22/2009
Subject: Re: Black Algae Problem

OK. Before going forward, double check the three links I gave you, the first two are below and the third was in a follow-up reply. You can click on the pictures on each site to see full sized images. Check the close-ups of the Green Spot Algae on http://www.theplantedtank.co.uk/algae.htm, especially the one with the styrofoam plate to show the green spot algae on the glass better. This fits your below description but is LOT different from your original description. Here's an article from TFH magazine about Cyanobacteria http://naturalaquariums.com/plantedtank/0608.html that has a few photos as well so look over these and the enlarged images on the three Algae websites that I gave you with photos of Cyanobacteria to see if that is what you have. Cyanobacteria comes in so many forms, colors, etc., I think I read either 100's or even 1,000's of variants, that it's hard to come up with enough photos for comparative purposes. You'll see in this article that a tank blackout is recommended and since you do not have live plants, this might be an option for you. It means completely blacking out the tank for 3 days (black construction paper on the four sides and a dark blanket draped over it, no light, food, etc., other than lifting a corner of the blanket to give the tank a smell test each day to make sure the dead/dying bacteria isn't fouling the water. Keep the filters running and even running an airstone is helpful if you have one to increase O2 levels and outgas CO2 since the dead/dying algae and/or cyanobacteria will not be performing photosynthesis and will be putting out more CO2 as it decays. You might want to try the blackout first, while we are still trying to figure out what the algae is as the blackout is known to work on most forms of algae and cyanobacteria but it's tougher on planted tanks but since you do not have a planted tank, it might be a good place to start instead of using chemicals or medicines.. or buying a fish that may not do the job. BTW... video would work but you would have to upload it to your own online photo album as I do not believe the Yahoo Group's allow video. You should have a free Flickr account with your Yahoo email account and you can upload video to the Flickr account. In my former profession, we had a saying that "If a picture speaks 1,000 words, then video speaks 10,000 words!" That would also let "the doctors see the patient" as you said. ;-) Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of bill 1433 Sent: Tuesday, September 22, 2009 10:38 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Black Algae Problem None of them Len but I thought of another stupid example but good visual side of this. Have you ever worked with spray paint? If so, have you ever fogged the paint (a very light quick coat usually done on glass so that the next coat will stick better and give better coverage)? Well that's what it looks like. Not stringy or hairy. I wish my wife were home, she does a better job with our digital camera than I, my hands are just too big, video is where I shine. You folks are trying to help as best you can and I appreciate all of your efforts but it would certainly be better if the "doctors" could see the patient! Bill --- On Tue, 9/22/09, Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@...> wrote: > From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@...> > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Black Algae Problem > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Date: Tuesday, September 22, 2009, 10:46 AM OK... while I agree that > it could be and probably is Cyanobacteria, which is actually another > misnamed algae, BGA = Blue Green Algae = Cyanobacteria, like the other > common issue that is misnamed "Brown Algae", which are actually > Diatoms, so lets be sure before you go out and buy erythromycin. > > Bill, > > Here's a couple of decent sites with lots of photos of the various > algae's that we commonly get.  See if yours is shown on either of > these pages. > > http://www.plantgeek.net/article_viewer.php?id=9 > > http://www.theplantedtank.co.uk/algae.htm > > This is why I kept asking which website you went to that came up with > the original thing that you called "black algae".  See which of these > you think most closely or identically matches what you have and let us > know. > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles > referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically > under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) > > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] > On > Behalf Of bill 1433 > Sent: Tuesday, September 22, 2009 8:17 AM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Black Algae Problem > > I'm sorry \\Steve// maybe I should have tried to describe > it better. > > One of those things like, "It sounds right to me type of > things" but others > cannot make sense of it.  Also I should have added > that the algae was a > beautiful green and suddenly changed to its now darker > color in addition it > never looked like the pictures in Lenny's links that he > posted, it was never > "hairy". > > Thanks for your help and replies so far, > > Bill > > > --- On Tue, 9/22/09, Steve Szabo <steve@...> > wrote: > > > From: Steve Szabo <steve@...> > > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Black Algae Problem > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > Date: Tuesday, September 22, 2009, 12:16 AM Bill, > > > > Then it is probably a form of cyanobacteria, more > commonly known as > > blue-green algae. In this case, erythromycin is what > you should use to > > cure it, but this can also harm your nitrification > bacteria, so you > > will need to keep an eye on your tank's nitrogen > levels. > > > > \\Steve// > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] > > On Behalf Of bill 1433 > > Sent: Monday, September 21, 2009 11:26 PM > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Black Algae Problem > > > > Sorry Len, > > > > None of the above.  It could be like dark blue green > or once was.  It > > just sits there and if wiped off or distrubed, its > like a small sheet > > floating around the tank. > > > > Bill > > > > --- On Mon, 9/21/09, Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@...> > > wrote: > > > > > From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@...> > > > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Black Algae Problem > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > > Date: Monday, September 21, 2009, 8:38 PM Bill, > > > > > > Did you use a particular website in determining > the > > common > > > name of your > > > algae?  I often see names like Black Algae, > Black Brush Algae, etc., > > > thrown around and without pictures, it's tough to > know what > > a > > > particular site or > > > fish keeper may be talking about. > > > > > > Here's that MalawiCichlid page about Hydrogen > Peroxide > > and > > > the top few > > > pictures show "Black Algae".  Is this what you > have? > > > http://www.malawicichlidhomepage.com/aquainfo/algae_peroxide.html > > > > > > Other sites describe "Black Algae" as sheets of > dark > > green > > > to blackish > > > looking slimy algae when they are probably > talking > > about > > > BGA - Blue Green > > > Algae - Cyanobacteria. > > > http://badmanstropicalfish.com/mb/mb16.html > > > > > > AmericanAquariumProducts, a reliable site, has > this > > picture > > > of Black Beard > > > Algae. > > > http://www.americanaquariumproducts.com/images/graphics/bbalgae2.jpg > > > > > > Anyhow, let us know what you have so we can be > sure > > we're > > > all on the same > > > page... so to speak. > > > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles > > > referenced in above reply are > > listed > > > on the right > > > side, alphabetically under Labels and also under > > Archives > > > by Year, Month) > > >  > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] > > > On > > > Behalf Of Amber Berglund > > > Sent: Tuesday, September 22, 2009 5:16 PM > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Black Algae Problem > > > > > > I have been told word of mouth that Platy's and > > Guppy's > > > will nibble on the > > > black beard algae, but only if you practically > starve > > them > > > ;) LOL. > > > So basically it's pointless to try getting a fish > that > > eats > > > the algae as > > > they will always prefer the food you feed them > over > > the > > > algae growing in the > > > tank ;) I have seen my guppy's and platy's nibble > on > > it, > > > but not all the > > > time, usually when they're foraging for food > they > > will > > > "taste test" the > > > algae too. > > > > > > Amber > > > > > > bill 1433 wrote: > > > >  > > > > > > > > Check on the algae eater but far as I know, > none > > eat > > > the black stuff. > > > > Your right, i've got to figure out the "Y" > part. > > > Lights on 10 to 12 > > > > but they are standard tubes, 17watts each > for the > > 20 > > > and 29. > > > > > > > > Food? Very high protein stuff from Ken's up > in > > Mass. > > > > Fish love it. > > > > > > > > Bill > > > > > > > > --- On Mon, 9/21/09, Lenny V. aka GoldLenny > > <GoldLenny@... > > > > > > > <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com>> > wrote: > > > > > > > > > From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@... > > > > <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com>> > > > > > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Black Algae > > Problem > > > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > > > > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > Date: Monday, September 21, 2009, 1:28 > PM I > > guess > > > the SeaChem > > > > > Flourish Excel might be your preferred > > choice... > > > BUT... > > > > > remember that if you do not figure out > the > > cause > > > and fix the cause, > > > > > it will simply return, so you still > have to > > > figure out the cause. > > > > > > > > > > Presuming you are keeping any cycling > issues > > in > > > check and thus > > > > > keeping nitrates at a low enough > level, > > below > > > 20ppm, then I would > > > > > highly suspect either too much lighting > (how > > long > > > do you leave them > > > > > on each day and how much lighting do > you > > have?) > > > or direct sunlight > > > > > or other nutrients (mainly > > > > > phosphates) that you may be getting > from > > your > > > well water or from > > > > > many foods that list phosphorous > > percentages > > > (I've seen many that > > > > > have MUCH higher levels than others). > > > > > > > > > > I'm looking at three of my store > bought > > foods > > > right now.  Omega One > > > > > Medium Goldfish Pellets lists "Min. > > Phosphorous > > > (0.5%)".  I'm not > > > > > sure why it's in brackets ( ), as the > other > > > analysis levels are not > > > > > in brackets... could this mean > negative???, > > I > > > have to check with > > > > > Omega One.  My Hikari Algae Wafers > has > > > "Guaranteed Analysis" as > > > > > "Phosphorous min 0.7%" but then in a > > separate > > > section called > > > > > "Typical Analysis", it has > "Phosphorous > > > 1.4%".  My Hagen Nutrafin > > > > > Max Goldfish Flake Food has > "Phosphorous > > min > > > 0.5%, max 0.9%". > > > > > > > > > > I've seen other foods where they > "advertise" > > on > > > the package of > > > > > having less than 3% phosphorous or > something > > like > > > that, which means > > > > > they are simply taking advantage of > the > > > uninformed as those levels > > > > > of phosphorous are 3X to 6X the levels > of > > the > > > three foods I just > > > > > listed and even the Hikari Algae Wafers > has > > > nearly 2X to 3X more > > > > > than the other two. > > > > > > > > > > As usual with store bought foods, check > the > > > ingredients. > > > > > > > > > > Last but not least, if you have bioload > room > > in > > > the tanks and cannot > > > > > figure out the cause of the algae, you > might > > want > > > to consider a > > > > > small algae eater. > > > > > > > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > > > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > > > (Links to any articles referenced in > above > > reply > > > are listed on the > > > > > right side, alphabetically under Labels > and > > also > > > under Archives by > > > > > Year, Month) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > > > > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] > > > > > On > > > > > Behalf Of bill 1433 > > > > > Sent: Monday, September 21, 2009 11:48 > AM > > > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > > > > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Black Algae > > Problem > > > > > > > > > > Len, > > > > > > > > > > I understand what your trying to say > and > > thanks > > > for the help but the > > > > > problem is the stuff is everywhere.  > Not > > > real heavy and can usually > > > > > just be wiped off with the clean cloth, > the > > > problems come in at the > > > > > "where" part. > > > > > > > > > > For instance pieces of gravel, not all > mind > > you > > > just some, you know, > > > > > so you'll notice it! > > > > > > > > > > What I need is a way to dose the whole > tank > > at > > > once without having > > > > > to worry about checking for survivors > when > > I'm > > > done.  The hp seems > > > > > to infer direct contact.  Working with > a > > > syringe it would probably > > > > > take me to Christmas to get the whole > tank > > done > > > by this method, > > > > > which is why I'm looking at Seachem. > > > > > Now if there was some way of using the > HP in > > this > > > method it would be > > > > > great but most articles seem to infer > this > > direct > > > contact approach. > > > > > > > > > > Thanks, Bill > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > --- On Mon, 9/21/09, Lenny V. aka > GoldLenny > > > <GoldLenny@... > > > > <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com>> > > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny > <GoldLenny@... > > > > <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com>> > > > > > > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Black > Algae > > > Problem > > > > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > > > > > > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > Date: Monday, September 21, 2009, > 12:21 > > PM I > > > know > > > > > TheKrib's thread is > > > > > > from late 1990's - early 2000's > but IT > > is > > > some of the > > > > > best info out > > > > > > there on the net.  EVERY forum > thread > > > that I've ever > > > > > seen in any other > > > > > > forum still refers to TheKrib's > thread > > as > > > THE guide > > > > > for using Hydrogen > > > > > > Peroxide.  I know the dosages are > or > > > can be confusing > > > > > in that thread > > > > > > as that was raw data compiled by > > posting > > > around 20 > > > > > experienced replies > > > > > > to make that page, which is why I > > included > > > the one > > > > > paragraph about > > > > > > what the safe dosage was, as I > know it > > from > > > reading > > > > > many other forum > > > > > > threads over the years and using > it > > myself > > > in the > > > > > past. > > > > > > > > > > > > 1 oz. per 10G has been used on > tanks > > with > > > fry but if > > > > > you are more > > > > > > concerned, halve that dosage.  Do > the > > > dosing during > > > > > the day so the > > > > > > lights stay on for a while after > the > > dose as > > > light > > > > > helps to break down > > > > > > the HP faster.  Since you are > using a > > > syringe (minus > > > > > needle) to apply > > > > > > the HP, it's the direct contact of > the > > HP on > > > the algae > > > > > that does the > > > > > > job and then the HP breaks down > into > > water > > > and > > > > > oxygen.  Do a PWC the > > > > > > next day (or even be prepared to > do a > > PWC > > > after dosing > > > > > if your fish > > > > > > are showing any signs of distress > but > > the 1 > > > oz. > > > > > > per 10G should be OK.  1 oz. > equals > > > around 30ml > > > > > (actually 29.57ml if > > > > > > you have a highly calibrated > > syringe... > > > lol). > > > > > > > > > > > > In TheKrib's page, there were > people > > who > > > experimented > > > > > with using as > > > > > > much as 60ml per 10G (2 oz. per > 10G) > > which > > > was found > > > > > to cause issues > > > > > > for sensitive snails and ghost > shrimp > > and > > > some fish. > > > > > Others would > > > > > > dose with their filters off, > worried > > about > > > the HP > > > > > causing harm to the > > > > > > filters, but that could also > cause > > problems > > > as it did > > > > > not > > > > > > disperse/dilute the HP fast enough > in > > the > > > water > > > > > column.  Just leave > > > > > > your filters running BUT do not > squirt > > the > > > HP close > > > > > enough to a filter > > > > > > intake.  If you need to dose near > the > > > filter, unplug > > > > > it for a moment, > > > > > > do the dose, use something to stir > up > > the > > > water in > > > > > that area, then > > > > > > turn the filter back on.  Leave > the > > > lights on for > > > > > several hours after > > > > > > using HP.  Do the PWC the next > day > > and > > > dose again as > > > > > needed. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > As far as the Excel, which is an > > EXPENSIVE > > > alternative > > > > > treatment, here > > > > > > are a couple of forum threads on > the > > topic, > > > with some > > > > > users using up > > > > > > to 5X the proper dose of Excel, > every > > 3 > > > days. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > http://www.aquaticplantcentral.com/forumapc/algae/3806-flourish-ex > > > > cel- > > > > got-ri > > > > <http://www.aquaticplantcentral.com/forumapc/algae/3806-flourish-e > > > > xcel > > > > -got-ri> > > > > > d-all-my.html (25 page thread) > > > > > > > > > > > > SeaChem's official reply. > > > > > > http://www.seachem.com/support/forums/showthread.php?t=682 > > > > <http://www.seachem.com/support/forums/showthread.php?t=682> > > > > > > > > > > > > The top FAQ on this page is > another of > > > SeaChem's > > > > > official replies. > > > > > > http://www.seachem.com/support/FAQs/FlourishExcel.html > > > > <http://www.seachem.com/support/FAQs/FlourishExcel.html> > > > > > > > > > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > > > > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> (Links > > > to > > > > > any articles > > > > > > referenced in above reply are > listed on > > the > > > right > > > > > side, alphabetically > > > > > > under Labels and also under > Archives > > by > > > Year, Month) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > > > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] > > > > > > On > > > > > > Behalf Of bill 1433 > > > > > > Sent: Monday, September 21, 2009 > 8:40 > > AM > > > > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > > > > > > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Black > Algae > > > Problem > > > > > > > > > > > > Hi Len, > > > > > >  > > > > > > \\Steve// also suggested this BUT, > even > > with > > > the links > > > > > you > > > > > > sent (some dated) > > > > > > it appears that there is great > > controversy > > > over > > > > > dosage. > > > > > >  > > > > > > The fish in the tank are 9 rams at > 5 > > months > > > old and 3 > > > > > Cory > > > > > > cats.  Those Rams > > > > > > were a long time coming and I > really > > don't > > > want > > > > > anything to > > > > > > happen to them. > > > > > >  > > > > > > On the other hand, some for other > > groups > > > mention the > > > > > use of > > > > > > SeaChem's Excel > > > > > > but again, nobody seems to have > an > > dosage > > > level for positive > > > > > > results. > > > > > > Looking at their web-site they do > > mention > > > this on > > > > > their > > > > > > support page but > > > > > > since this is a by-pass type of > > reaction > > > they are not > > > > > being > > > > > > specific as to > > > > > > dosage either.  Unless they just > mean > > > to use the > > > > > product > > > > > > by its instructions > > > > > > on the bottle to boost carbon for > > plants. > > > > > Information so > > > > > > far has been "ify" > > > > > > at best.  I don't want to hurt > those > > > Rams. > > > > > >  > > > > > > Bill--where Rams Rule! > > > > > > > > > > > > --- On Mon, 9/21/09, Lenny V. aka > > GoldLenny > > > <GoldLenny@... > > > > <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com>> > > > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny > > <GoldLenny@... > > > > <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com>> > > > > > > > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] > Black > > Algae > > > Problem > > > > > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > Date: Monday, September 21, > 2009, > > 1:29 > > > AM Bill, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > If I recall correctly, you do > NOT > > have > > > any live > > > > > > plants... > > > > > > > right? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Here's a thread about using > HP > > for > > > algae issues, > > > > > > including suggested > > > > > > > dosages, etc. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > http://www.thekrib.com/Plants/Algae/hydrogen-peroxide.html > > > > <http://www.thekrib.com/Plants/Algae/hydrogen-peroxide.html> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > And an article. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > http://www.malawicichlidhomepage.com/aquainfo/algae_peroxide.html > > > > <http://www.malawicichlidhomepage.com/aquainfo/algae_peroxide.html > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > The basic safe dose for fish > and > > plants > > > is 1 oz. > > > > > per > > > > > > 10G per day, with > > > > > > > PWC's between each treatment > and > > do not > > > dose the > > > > > tank > > > > > > close to the > > > > > > > intake to your filter(s).  > If > > you > > > have > > > > > sensitive > > > > > > shrimp or snails and > > > > > > > someone mentioned oto's, then > you > > might > > > want to > > > > > halve > > > > > > that dosage. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > One other question, are you > sure > > you > > > have "black > > > > > > algae".  Algae is > > > > > > > another thing in the > aquarium > > hobby > > > that suffers > > > > > from > > > > > > common name > > > > > > > abuse so look over these > articles > > and I > > > can give > > > > > you > > > > > > several other > > > > > > > sites about algae, if you > don't > > have > > > them > > > > > already, for > > > > > > even more > > > > > > > reading. > > > > > > > You'll see what I mean > > > > > > > about the common name > problem. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > If your water testing is > showing > > low > > > levels of > > > > > > nitrates and other > > > > > > > nitrogenous compounds, then > you > > might > > > want to > > > > > check > > > > > > your phosphate > > > > > > > levels in your source water > and > > > tank.  Also, > > > > > many > > > > > > fish foods are a BIG > > > > > > > source of phosphates so check > them > > also > > > and > > > > > maybe > > > > > > change over to a > > > > > > > lower phosphate level food. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > > > > > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> (Links > > > to > > > > > > any articles > > > > > > > referenced in above reply > are > > listed on > > > the > > > > > right > > > > > > side, alphabetically > > > > > > > under Labels and also under > > Archives by > > > Year, > > > > > Month) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > > > > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] > > > > > > > On > > > > > > > Behalf Of Steve Szabo > > > > > > > Sent: Sunday, September 20, > 2009 > > 10:50 > > > PM > > > > > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] > Black > > Algae > > > Problem > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Bill, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Get some hydrogen peroxide > > (normally > > > found in a > > > > > 3% > > > > > > > solution) and a syringe. > > > > > > > With the syringe, apply the > > hydrogen > > > peroxide > > > > > directly > > > > > > to > > > > > > > the black algae. > > > > > > > This should kill the black > algae > > > without harming > > > > > any > > > > > > plants > > > > > > > or fish in the > > > > > > > process, since hydrogen > peroxide > > will > > > break down > > > > > > fairly > > > > > > > rapidly to the main > > > > > > > components, water and > oxygen, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > \\Steve// > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > > > > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] > > > > > > > On > > > > > > > Behalf Of bill 1433 > > > > > > > Sent: Sunday, September 20, > 2009 > > 11:23 > > > PM > > > > > > > To: AquaticLife > > > > > > > Subject: [AquaticLife] Black > > Algae > > > Problem > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I have started getting a > black > > algae > > > problem that > > > > > I > > > > > > am > > > > > > > trying to live with > > > > > > > but have not been able to > > > conquer.  The tanks > > > > > are a > > > > > > > standard 29-gallon Ram > > > > > > > tank and a 20-gallon long > with > > Neon > > > Tetras in > > > > > it. > > > > > > >  > > > > > > > I may have posted this > problem a > > few > > > months ago > > > > > and > > > > > > have > > > > > > > been living with it > > > > > > > through cleaning and water > changes > > but > > > the > > > > > problem > > > > > > has > > > > > > > never really > > > > > > > completely cleared.  > Someone > > > mentioned the use > > > > > of > > > > > > > Seachem's Excel to kill it > > > > > > > but I'm not sure of proper > dosage > > or > > > how long. > > > > > All > > > > > > water > > > > > > > tests are fine and > > > > > > > pH is 7.0 > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Bill > > > > ------------------------------------ > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when > replying, Thank You. > ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> > ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> > PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is > NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of > the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new > subject (was re: old subject)" <- > <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. > , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. > > If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of > unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by > clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the home page.  > > Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com > to receive the digest, which includes up to 25 posts at a > time in a single email > > Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com > for the No E-Mail option where you will still be able to > read messages on the group and post replies. > > Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com > to receive individual e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links > > >     mailto:AquaticLife-fullfeatured@yahoogroups.com > > > ------------------------------------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the home page. Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com to receive the digest, which includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com for the No E-Mail option where you will still be able to read messages on the group and post replies. Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com to receive individual e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 43542	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 9/22/2009
Subject: Re: Baby mystery snails and question about duckweed.

I'd like to know why only the snails you sent me are reproducing ;) Do you feed them steroids Pam? LOL. My dark purple snails mate all the time but I have yet to see any of the females laying eggs, guess they just are not ready yet ;) I have a friend that likes to eat snails, so I suppose if worse comes to worse I can sell them for food, LOL. Amber pam andress wrote: > > > > Your going to be over run with snails. :o > > Pam > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > From: arberglund@... <mailto:arberglund%40gmail.com> > Date: Tue, 22 Sep 2009 14:37:56 -0800 > Subject: [AquaticLife] Baby mystery snails and question about duckweed. > > So my baby mystery snails are doing great, starting to show some color > (purple so far). Also Pam the ones I got from you are busy little guys, > they've laid eggs 4 times the last 3 weeks! My 125 gallon is going to be > swarming in mystery snails soon. > So far my dark purple ones have not laid eggs, the eggs that were laid > were from one of the magenta ones, either Pam's or the ones I got from > the aquabid seller. The babies look more like Pam's purple ones though. > Perhaps my dark purple ones just aren't ready, I know there's enough in > there to have at least one pair off ;) LOL. > Maybe the next batch will be dark purple ones ;) > The ones in the 125 gallon are growing faster, that tank is usually a > couple degrees warmer than the ones upstairs as I keep the upstairs > windows open for a bit of air in the house, it gets too stuffy if I don't. > Most of my older snails in the 55 gallon upstairs are "napping", they > have been for a couple of weeks, off and on. Perhaps they think it's > their hibernation time? Not sure, either way they're still alive and > they wake up for food every now and then. > I'm struggling with the duckweed in that tank as well, perhaps they > don't like the duckweed? Other than removing all traces of duckweed so > that it can't reproduce is there a faster way to get rid of it somehow? > LOL. Darn stuff is going to take over my home, when I get done cleaning > the fish tank I have duckweed everywhere ;) Hubby calls me "swamp thing" > LOL. > > Amber > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 43543	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 9/22/2009
Subject: PIJAC's "Don't Mess With My Pet"

News release found at http://www.petproductnews.com/headlines/2009/09/16/PIJAC-launches-new-me mbership-campaign-for-pet-wwners.aspx http://tinyurl.com/nykql4 A web site is found at http://www.dontmesswithmypet.org/ \\Steve//

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 43544	From: fishlover_james_s	Date: 9/22/2009
Subject: Re: Koi angel is laying eggs

Pam if you do have some discus to sell (hint, hint, hint) I am interested. My pleco's are doing great that I got from you and are growing well. The albino seems to have nearly doubled in size and the other two are at least 2" now. One of the smaller ones is getting yellow/white tips on it's dorsal and tail fins. Great little fish!!! James --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, pam andress <pamandress23@...> wrote: > > > Amber, > > > > I had a problem with my discus pair all of a sudden getting mean with the other one. I took one out for a few days and then put it back and everything is fine now. They also have been eating first their eggs, then the wigglers, then the fry. The last time they had free swimming fry, I tried to move them into another tank to raise. This didn't work, but this time they have not eaten everybody. The fry has been free swimming for about 10 days now! This is a record for them, so I'm hoping this time I will actually get to see babies grow. :) > > > > I also had another pair off and I moved them to a 23 gal tank by themselves. One didn't like it at all and they never laid eggs. One was always hiding in a corner. I finally moved them back to the 55 gal community tank and a few days later they laid eggs. Of course they didn't last, but it was a first. They haven't done anything since and that was about 2 weeks ago. > > > > Pam > > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > From: arberglund@... > Date: Sat, 19 Sep 2009 12:24:33 -0800 > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Koi angel is laying eggs > > > > > > You will find that as soon as the other fish start going after the eggs > that the Angel's should become more and more protective of them, so > watch your other fish carefully, Angel's will beat up on other fish if > they are in "their area". Very territorial fish when they are breeding, > mine had to go into their own 55 gallon tank because they were beating > up the other fish in the 125 gallon tank and making them all hang out on > one side of the tank while they had half all to themselves ;). > It's very neat to watch them lay eggs and care for them though, mine > tend to eat their eggs, have yet to have any survive since moving them > over into their own tank. My Angel's also got more aggressive towards > each other when I moved them to their own tank, besides adding some fast > moving fish to distract them I'm not sure how to make them happy, LOL. I > thought giving them their own tank might make them happy but they seemed > happier when they had other fish to chase away ;) Now they spend the > time chasing each other around the tank. > Hope you have less territorial Angel fish than I do ;) LOL. > > Amber > > adonaikam wrote: > > > > > > Hi all > > > > Just thought I would share with you what we have been watching for the > > last half hour. Our Yellow Koi angel fish is laying eggs and the black > > marble angel is trying to fertilize them. Its the first time for the > > Koi so she is having lots of difficulties but is getting with practice. > > > > We will see if the eggs will survive - we expect they won't because > > its a community tank and we are sure the other fish will eat the eggs > > eventually. > > > > Just thought I'd share our excitement with you. > > > > Regards > > Jasmine > > > > > > > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 43545	From: Derek	Date: 9/22/2009
Subject: Tank Repair?

So i have come across an 80g tank i was thrilled until i foung the spouting leak at the bottom.. now im all for fixing it but i was wondering if anyone could give me some insight on how i should do this..

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 43546	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 9/22/2009
Subject: Re: PIJAC's "Don't Mess With My Pet"

I'm not sure it's wise of PIJAC to show a fish in a fish bowl on the home page of the new "Don't Mess With My Pet" website. At least it's not a goldfish in the bowl but it actually looks like a SW fish... making it even worse. Maybe they couldn't find a Betta caricature. :-P Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Steve Szabo Sent: Tuesday, September 22, 2009 8:01 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] PIJAC's "Don't Mess With My Pet" News release found at http://www.petproductnews.com/headlines/2009/09/16/PIJAC-launches-new-me mbership-campaign-for-pet-wwners.aspx http://tinyurl.com/nykql4 A web site is found at http://www.dontmesswithmypet.org/ \\Steve//

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 43547	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 9/22/2009
Subject: Re: Tank Repair?

Here's a few websites that I have in my favorites folder that have detailed instructions on repairing and/or re-siliconing a tank. You could try a repair but you would be taking a BIG risk with a leak near the bottom as these websites will further explain. Small Leaks Repair - http://saltaquarium.about.com/cs/aquariumdiy/ht/htrepairsmleaks.htm Complete Re-silicone Repair - http://www.aquamaniacs.net/forum/cms_view_article.php?aid=107 http://saltaquarium.about.com/cs/aquariumdiy/a/aa031302.htm FAQ's from WetWebMedia.com - http://www.wetwebmedia.com/aqrepairfaqs.htm Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Derek Sent: Wednesday, September 23, 2009 12:51 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Tank Repair? So i have come across an 80g tank i was thrilled until i foung the spouting leak at the bottom.. now im all for fixing it but i was wondering if anyone could give me some insight on how i should do this..

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 43548	From: jett07002	Date: 9/23/2009
Subject: Re: Black Algae Problem

Am I missing something? I think almost every aquarium will get this algae. It is nothing a single edged razor blade can't take care of. (On the glass that is) It is much better than adding all those chemicals!! As Donna said, feed the plants more. If they have enough to thrive on the "stuff" that's feeding the algae will be greatly absorbed --or used up-- and the algae will be less of a problem. But I don't think you are ever going to completely do away with it. If you do, it will probably be from putting all that crap in your tank to kill it. God knows what it will do to the whole aquarium environment eventually. No thanks, razor blade and a fish net to scoop it out are good enough for me. joe t

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 43549	From: bill 1433	Date: 9/23/2009
Subject: Re: Black Algae Problem

Hi Joe,   Thanks for the return.  The blade?  Good idea but use it on the gravel?  NOT!   Here's what I'm doing and how from a cross-post from my other group:   "I am going to attempt to write out here exactly what I am doing and how and when I'm doing it.  Remember we are still talking about the 20-long here, I have not started any treatment as yet to the 29-gallon where the Rams are.   I did start the initial dosage yesterday 2 ounce BUT I noticed immediately two things mentioned by you.  Dumping it in with the filters off never guarantee's direct contact to the stuff and second, trying to use a syringe is near impossible simply because there is no moving room against water splash in the tank.   Much of the algae was in the bottom of the 20 this morning.  Surveying the damage in the on going battle I concluded that it would be better to do and immediate 2-gallon water change to get that junk out of there first and this also allowed me some working room in the tank to wipe, and now go ahead and use the syringe to areas not easily wiped with the cloth.  I can see good results with no fish lose but this is going to take more time than I thought and I will have to work on it by 2-gallon changes every day until its all cleared up.  The HP method works well but it's not instant and takes time but so far it does seem effective.  Time will tell.    There is one other thing.  For many months I have always treated each water change with "Prime", at a 2-gallon per day change, I stopped using it. The reason?  It seems from my records that the Black Algae first appeared, one week after treating the tank with Prime a few months ago.  Could be a coincidence but maybe not or possibly something working in it with the well water.  At any rate, we are going to observe the tank without Prime and look for any adverse affects to the Neon's in there."    Bill --- On Wed, 9/23/09, jett07002 <jett07002@...> wrote: From: jett07002 <jett07002@...> Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Black Algae Problem To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Date: Wednesday, September 23, 2009, 1:03 PM Am I missing something?  I think almost every aquarium will get this algae.  It is nothing a single edged razor blade can't take care of. (On the glass that is) It is much better than adding all those chemicals!!  As Donna said, feed the plants more.  If they have enough to thrive on the "stuff" that's feeding the algae will be greatly absorbed --or used up-- and the algae will be less of a problem.   But I don't think you are ever going to completely do away with it.  If you do, it will probably be from putting all that crap in your tank to kill it.  God knows what it will do to the whole aquarium environment eventually.  No thanks, razor blade and a fish net to scoop it out are good enough for me. joe t ------------------------------------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the home page.  Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com to receive the digest, which includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com for the No E-Mail option where you will still be able to read messages on the group and post replies. Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com to receive individual e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 43550	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 9/23/2009
Subject: Re: Black Algae Problem

Well, the solutions we've been offering are more "natural" solutions as long as they are properly dosed, not the chemical stuff that has been known to cause harm to fish and plants, even when properly dosed. Hydrogen Peroxide is simply water with an extra Oxygen molecule, H2O2, and while it needs to be dosed properly, as that extra molecule bubbles out, it breaks down into water. This is much better than using a chemical algaecide on the algae. If it's Cyanobacteria, the solution was using Erythromycin, a very common antibiotic available for fish keepers, which will kill the Cyanobacteria. In Bill's case, he does NOT have any live plants in his tanks and he says he has been doing LOTS of tank maintenance so we were/are trying to find a solution. Of course, he can always remove the fake plants and decorations and treat them using a bleach solution dip and/or scrubbing, he can scrape the glass with a razor blade, but that doesn't fix the problem on all of the gravel. Yes, algae is normal and occurs in all tanks but if it gets to the point of being a problem or nuisance and growing all over the gravel and decorations, then other efforts sometimes need to be done. I did suggest checking phosphate levels since nitrogenous waste levels have been checked and are not the problem. Further photographic comparisons are being done by Bill to try and verify exactly which algae is the correct one since we have determined that it is NOT Black Algae as he originally called it. From his most recent description, many of us are leaning towards Cyanobacteria that is mis-named BGA, Blue Green Algae, but it's not actually an algae, it's a gram-positive bacteria. Either H.P. or Erythromycin (Maracyn is one brand) will work on Cyanobacteria with Erythromycin being the easier method. Some Cyanobacteria release toxins that can be harmful to our fish and if there were live plants, it can grow on and smother the plants so it should not be dismissed completely. https://www.vdh.virginia.gov/epidemiology/DEE/Waterborne/cyanobacteria.htm http://digitalcommons.unl.edu/cgi/viewcontent.cgi?article=1038&context=usepa papers (opens PDF file) Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of jett07002 Sent: Wednesday, September 23, 2009 12:04 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Black Algae Problem Am I missing something? I think almost every aquarium will get this algae. It is nothing a single edged razor blade can't take care of. (On the glass that is) It is much better than adding all those chemicals!! As Donna said, feed the plants more. If they have enough to thrive on the "stuff" that's feeding the algae will be greatly absorbed --or used up-- and the algae will be less of a problem. But I don't think you are ever going to completely do away with it. If you do, it will probably be from putting all that crap in your tank to kill it. God knows what it will do to the whole aquarium environment eventually. No thanks, razor blade and a fish net to scoop it out are good enough for me. joe t

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 43551	From: pam andress	Date: 9/23/2009
Subject: Re: Koi angel is laying eggs

When I get some to grow, I will let everyone know. I have no idea what color these will be. The female is a blue and the male is all sorts of colors. Glad to hear the plecos are doing well. Pam To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com From: james_kristi@... Date: Wed, 23 Sep 2009 02:14:07 +0000 Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Koi angel is laying eggs Pam if you do have some discus to sell (hint, hint, hint) I am interested. My pleco's are doing great that I got from you and are growing well. The albino seems to have nearly doubled in size and the other two are at least 2" now. One of the smaller ones is getting yellow/white tips on it's dorsal and tail fins. Great little fish!!! James --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, pam andress <pamandress23@...> wrote: > > > Amber, > > > > I had a problem with my discus pair all of a sudden getting mean with the other one. I took one out for a few days and then put it back and everything is fine now. They also have been eating first their eggs, then the wigglers, then the fry. The last time they had free swimming fry, I tried to move them into another tank to raise. This didn't work, but this time they have not eaten everybody. The fry has been free swimming for about 10 days now! This is a record for them, so I'm hoping this time I will actually get to see babies grow. :) > > > > I also had another pair off and I moved them to a 23 gal tank by themselves. One didn't like it at all and they never laid eggs. One was always hiding in a corner. I finally moved them back to the 55 gal community tank and a few days later they laid eggs. Of course they didn't last, but it was a first. They haven't done anything since and that was about 2 weeks ago. > > > > Pam > > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > From: arberglund@... > Date: Sat, 19 Sep 2009 12:24:33 -0800 > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Koi angel is laying eggs > > > > > > You will find that as soon as the other fish start going after the eggs > that the Angel's should become more and more protective of them, so > watch your other fish carefully, Angel's will beat up on other fish if > they are in "their area". Very territorial fish when they are breeding, > mine had to go into their own 55 gallon tank because they were beating > up the other fish in the 125 gallon tank and making them all hang out on > one side of the tank while they had half all to themselves ;). > It's very neat to watch them lay eggs and care for them though, mine > tend to eat their eggs, have yet to have any survive since moving them > over into their own tank. My Angel's also got more aggressive towards > each other when I moved them to their own tank, besides adding some fast > moving fish to distract them I'm not sure how to make them happy, LOL. I > thought giving them their own tank might make them happy but they seemed > happier when they had other fish to chase away ;) Now they spend the > time chasing each other around the tank. > Hope you have less territorial Angel fish than I do ;) LOL. > > Amber > > adonaikam wrote: > > > > > > Hi all > > > > Just thought I would share with you what we have been watching for the > > last half hour. Our Yellow Koi angel fish is laying eggs and the black > > marble angel is trying to fertilize them. Its the first time for the > > Koi so she is having lots of difficulties but is getting with practice. > > > > We will see if the eggs will survive - we expect they won't because > > its a community tank and we are sure the other fish will eat the eggs > > eventually. > > > > Just thought I'd share our excitement with you. > > > > Regards > > Jasmine > > > > > > > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 43552	From: gailsugarpants	Date: 9/23/2009
Subject: Re: black belt cichlids

So, I have decided to name my black belt, "Chuck Norris". lol Thanks Lenny for the idea. I know that some of the fish I have will eventually get pretty big, I have him in my 20 gallon for now. And I have some large fish in my 55 gallon, but I have recently discovered how valuable my LFS is. I needed to lower my bio load on my 55 gallon, so I traded my 9" pleco and my 6" pleco and my Bala shark for credit towards another more expensive fish that I wanted. Go me! Thanks, Gail --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@...> wrote: > > Well, they're both cichlids and get pretty big but they are not from the > same Genus but they are *currently* from the same Family per the > FishBase.org Classifications below. > > http://fish.mongabay.com/species/Cichlasoma_maculicauda.html (correct Genus > is Vieja now) > > http://fishbase.org.cn/Summary/SpeciesSummary.php?id=12208 > Classification - Actinopterygii | Perciformes | Cichlidae | Cichlasomatinae > > http://www.cichlid-forum.com/profiles/species.php?id=101 > > Here's the Severum profiles. > > http://fish.mongabay.com/species/Heros_severus.html > > http://fishbase.org/Summary/SpeciesSummary.php?id=3617 > Classification - Actinopterygii | Perciformes | Cichlidae | Cichlasomatinae > > http://www.cichlid-forum.com/profiles/species.php?id=2449 > > I hope you have a BIGGGGGGGG tank for each of them. I think the name comes > from the single "black band" on the Vieja maculicauda which would be like a > "black belt" around the waist area if a fish had a waist, rather than from > their martial arts skills. ;-) > > Bruce Lee or Chuck Norris would be appropriate names. LOL > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right > side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) > > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On > Behalf Of clandestine662002 > Sent: Tuesday, September 15, 2009 5:59 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Subject: [AquaticLife] black belt cichlids > > Does anyone know if Black Belt Cichlids are related to Severums? I just got > one and the shape is very similar to Severums. > > Also, I am looking for ideas on what to name my Black belt, they are kind of > the tough guy types... maybe a tough guy name? > > thanks, > > gail >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 43553	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 9/23/2009
Subject: Re: Black Algae Problem

Joe, Yes, all aquariums get algae. Normally it is green, and easily dealt with. A lot of people will even leave it be (I was going to say "let it be", but I am watching "Across the Universe", and I decided that "let it be" might be a bit too much for even me) so long as it is not becoming an eyesore on plants or diminishing the view into the tank What Bill has is either a black algae or blue-green algae, both forms of cyanobacteria, which is ugly in either form, and, apparently, taking over his tanks. The best cure for the black forms is hydrogen peroxide, which, it has been pointed out at least twice already in this thread, breaks down rapidly in water and light to become water and oxygen. While dosing wholesale, it may be a slight irritant to the fish population, it quickly passes as the breakdown occurs leaving water and oxygen and dead algae behind. On the other hand, if erythromycin is used, it is a drug. As such it requires a bit more care in dosing and maintaining your cycle as it may affect your bacterial colonies handling your tank's cycle. Once the treatment period is done, it will be removed by water changes and carbon filtration. The dosages used are not often harmful to the bacterial colonies (but one always needs to be prepared) and of no harm to any fish present. As has also mentioned in this thread, another possibility is to use Excel (not the Microsoft spreadsheet, but a plant treatment) and use of that is basically a crap shoot with too many things that could possibly go wrong. I'd avoid use of it, as Bill has been advised, especially in Bill's case where he has no plants living in his tank. \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of jett07002 Sent: Wednesday, September 23, 2009 1:04 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Black Algae Problem Am I missing something? I think almost every aquarium will get this algae. It is nothing a single edged razor blade can't take care of. (On the glass that is) It is much better than adding all those chemicals!! As Donna said, feed the plants more. If they have enough to thrive on the "stuff" that's feeding the algae will be greatly absorbed --or used up-- and the algae will be less of a problem. But I don't think you are ever going to completely do away with it. If you do, it will probably be from putting all that crap in your tank to kill it. God knows what it will do to the whole aquarium environment eventually. No thanks, razor blade and a fish net to scoop it out are good enough for me. joe t

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 43554	From: bill 1433	Date: 9/23/2009
Subject: Re: Black Algae Problem

Hi \\Steve//   Yes, HP is the way to go.  We are in our second day using it and here are the "hows","wheres" and "whys" cut from another post I did earlier today:   "I did start the initial dosage yesterday 2 ounce ( 1 oz. per 10 gallon)BUT I noticed immediately two things mentioned.  Dumping it in with the filters off never guarantee's direct contact to the stuff and second, trying to use a syringe is near impossible simply because there is no moving room against water splash in the tank.   Much of the algae was in the bottom of the 20 long this morning.  Surveying the damage in the on going battle I concluded that it would be better to do and immediate 2-gallon water change to get that junk out of there first and this also allowed me some working room in the tank to wipe, and then go ahead and use the syringe to areas not easily wiped with the cloth.  I can see good results with no fish lose but this is going to take more time than I thought and I will have to work on it by 2-gallon changes every day until its all cleared up.  The HP method works well but it's not instant and takes time but so far it does seem to be the most cost effective and safest way to deal with it.  Time will tell."  I would only add to this that it is best NOT to wait until this stuff gets a good hold in your tank. At the first sign of it------get busy, trust me, it will not go away by itself!   Bill --- On Wed, 9/23/09, Steve Szabo <steve@...> wrote: From: Steve Szabo <steve@...> Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: Black Algae Problem To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Date: Wednesday, September 23, 2009, 8:26 PM Joe, Yes, all aquariums get algae. Normally it is green, and easily dealt with. A lot of people will even leave it be (I was going to say "let it be", but I am watching "Across the Universe", and I decided that "let it be" might be a bit too much for even me) so long as it is not becoming an eyesore on plants or diminishing the view into the tank What Bill has is either a black algae or blue-green algae, both forms of cyanobacteria, which is ugly in either form, and, apparently, taking over his tanks.  The best cure for the black forms is hydrogen peroxide, which, it has been pointed out at least twice already in this thread, breaks down rapidly in water and light to become water and oxygen. While dosing wholesale, it may be a slight irritant to the fish population, it quickly passes as the breakdown occurs leaving water and oxygen and dead algae behind. On the other hand, if erythromycin is used, it is a drug. As such it requires a bit more care in dosing and maintaining your cycle as it may affect your bacterial colonies handling your tank's cycle. Once the treatment period is done, it will be removed by water changes and carbon filtration. The dosages used are not often harmful to the bacterial colonies (but one always needs to be prepared) and of no harm to any fish present. As has also mentioned in this thread, another possibility is to use Excel (not the Microsoft spreadsheet, but a plant treatment) and use of that is basically a crap shoot with too many things that could possibly go wrong. I'd avoid use of it, as Bill has been advised, especially in Bill's case where he has no plants living in his tank. \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of jett07002 Sent: Wednesday, September 23, 2009 1:04 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Black Algae Problem Am I missing something?  I think almost every aquarium will get this algae.  It is nothing a single edged razor blade can't take care of. (On the glass that is) It is much better than adding all those chemicals!!  As Donna said, feed the plants more.  If they have enough to thrive on the "stuff" that's feeding the algae will be greatly absorbed --or used up-- and the algae will be less of a problem.   But I don't think you are ever going to completely do away with it.  If you do, it will probably be from putting all that crap in your tank to kill it.  God knows what it will do to the whole aquarium environment eventually.  No thanks, razor blade and a fish net to scoop it out are good enough for me. joe t ------------------------------------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the home page.  Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com to receive the digest, which includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com for the No E-Mail option where you will still be able to read messages on the group and post replies. Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com to receive individual e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 43555	From: kuradi8	Date: 9/24/2009
Subject: Voracious!

Coincidence? Maybe. But ever since I replaced the wimpy air pump with the relatively super-strong one, my fish have become very very hungry. They're Tin Foil Barbs and Nessie the Tank Monster. She's a Burmese Upside Down Catfish (who was only supposed to grow to be 3-4 inches -- but they lied.) They were always polite and relatively skimpy eaters but now they scarf down their food as if they haven't been fed for days (cross that out) weeks. What gives??? Did the bubbles make that much of a difference? ~Kai

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 43556	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 9/24/2009
Subject: Re: Voracious!

IF... and that's a big IF... you had low O2 levels before the airstones, the fish would have been more lethargic and/or had lower metabolisms. Possibly, and that's IF you had low O2 levels before, the airstones are causing more surface agitation which creates better gas exchange allowing more CO2, etc., to outgas and more O2 to ingas into the water which would then allow the fish to become more active and have higher metabolisms. From what I remember, you already had plenty of filtration on this tank and if you did, then you probably had sufficient O2 levels but you will have to clarify this point. The other possibility is that the airstones are causing more water movement so the food is "moving" a lot more and the fish are reacting to that. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of kuradi8 Sent: Thursday, September 24, 2009 7:18 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Voracious! Coincidence? Maybe. But ever since I replaced the wimpy air pump with the relatively super-strong one, my fish have become very very hungry. They're Tin Foil Barbs and Nessie the Tank Monster. She's a Burmese Upside Down Catfish (who was only supposed to grow to be 3-4 inches -- but they lied.) They were always polite and relatively skimpy eaters but now they scarf down their food as if they haven't been fed for days (cross that out) weeks. What gives??? Did the bubbles make that much of a difference? ~Kai

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 43557	From: bill 1433	Date: 9/24/2009
Subject: Re: Voracious!

One other thing to watch?  Their active and eating more?  Keep a close eye on your water parameters and check for ammonia spikes!  These fish are now giving off way more waste than before, make sure your biological filters are up to the challenge! This is another case where the larger the tank the better.   Bill --- On Thu, 9/24/09, Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@...> wrote: From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@...> Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Voracious! To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Date: Thursday, September 24, 2009, 9:07 AM IF... and that's a big IF... you had low O2 levels before the airstones, the fish would have been more lethargic and/or had lower metabolisms.  Possibly, and that's IF you had low O2 levels before, the airstones are causing more surface agitation which creates better gas exchange allowing more CO2, etc., to outgas and more O2 to ingas into the water which would then allow the fish to become more active and have higher metabolisms. From what I remember, you already had plenty of filtration on this tank and if you did, then you probably had sufficient O2 levels but you will have to clarify this point. The other possibility is that the airstones are causing more water movement so the food is "moving" a lot more and the fish are reacting to that. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of kuradi8 Sent: Thursday, September 24, 2009 7:18 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Voracious! Coincidence?  Maybe.  But ever since I replaced the wimpy air pump with the relatively super-strong one, my fish have become very very hungry.  They're Tin Foil Barbs and Nessie the Tank Monster.  She's a Burmese Upside Down Catfish (who was only supposed to grow to be 3-4 inches -- but they lied.) They were always polite and relatively skimpy eaters but now they scarf down their food as if they haven't been fed for days (cross that out) weeks. What gives???  Did the bubbles make that much of a difference? ~Kai ------------------------------------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the home page.  Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com to receive the digest, which includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com for the No E-Mail option where you will still be able to read messages on the group and post replies. Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com to receive individual e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 43558	From: kuradi8	Date: 9/24/2009
Subject: Re: Voracious!

I can only assume that the O2 levels have increased more than I expected. The old pump's output was wimpy but I tried to make up for it with aeration from the "waterfall" hang-on filter. Yes, there is significantly more surface agitation now. I'm just surprised at the difference in their appetite levels. Bottom line: I'm very pleased with the Rena 400 for my 55g. ~Kai --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@...> wrote: > > IF... and that's a big IF... you had low O2 levels before the airstones, the > fish would have been more lethargic and/or had lower metabolisms. Possibly, > and that's IF you had low O2 levels before, the airstones are causing more > surface agitation which creates better gas exchange allowing more CO2, etc., > to outgas and more O2 to ingas into the water which would then allow the > fish to become more active and have higher metabolisms. > > From what I remember, you already had plenty of filtration on this tank and > if you did, then you probably had sufficient O2 levels but you will have to > clarify this point. > > The other possibility is that the airstones are causing more water movement > so the food is "moving" a lot more and the fish are reacting to that. > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right > side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) > > > -----Original Message----- > Kai wrote: > > Coincidence? Maybe. But ever since I replaced the wimpy air pump with the > relatively super-strong one, my fish have become very very hungry. They're > Tin Foil Barbs and Nessie the Tank Monster. She's a Burmese Upside Down > Catfish (who was only supposed to grow to be 3-4 inches -- but they lied.) > They were always polite and relatively skimpy eaters but now they scarf down > their food as if they haven't been fed for days (cross that out) weeks. > > What gives??? Did the bubbles make that much of a difference? > ~Kai >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 43559	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 9/24/2009
Subject: Re: Voracious!

Regardless of the amount of surface agitation, there can only be a certain level of O2 in the water which is called the saturation level. If there was already enough surface agitation provided by the HOB filters, which usually provide plenty, then the air stones may not have increased the O2 levels. Without testing, with the air stones off for several hours and then on for several hours, it would be difficult to say whether the air stones have increased the O2 levels. Algone.com used to have a decent, yet simple article about Dissolved Oxygen levels but the page is not coming up any longer at http://www.algone.com/oxygen.php. Here is Google's "cached" page. http://74.125.47.132/search?q=cache:avNG1diVlfMJ:www.algone.com/oxygen.php+a quarium+surface+agitation+dissolved+oxygen+levels&cd=1&hl=en&ct=clnk&gl=us or http://preview.tinyurl.com/yaeyb5m Here is another good article on Loaches.com, about "Oxygen In The Aquarium". http://www.loaches.com/articles/oxygen-in-the-aquarium There is always a BIG chance that it's just the food moving that is causing the increase excitement level. One other thing to check... has the water temperature stayed the same since the addition of the air pump? Cooler water will also hold higher O2 levels than warmer water and water temperatures will also affect the metabolism of fish. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of kuradi8 Sent: Thursday, September 24, 2009 8:23 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Voracious! I can only assume that the O2 levels have increased more than I expected. The old pump's output was wimpy but I tried to make up for it with aeration from the "waterfall" hang-on filter. Yes, there is significantly more surface agitation now. I'm just surprised at the difference in their appetite levels. Bottom line: I'm very pleased with the Rena 400 for my 55g. ~Kai --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@...> wrote: > > IF... and that's a big IF... you had low O2 levels before the > airstones, the fish would have been more lethargic and/or had lower > metabolisms. Possibly, and that's IF you had low O2 levels before, > the airstones are causing more surface agitation which creates better > gas exchange allowing more CO2, etc., to outgas and more O2 to ingas > into the water which would then allow the fish to become more active and have higher metabolisms. > > From what I remember, you already had plenty of filtration on this > tank and if you did, then you probably had sufficient O2 levels but > you will have to clarify this point. > > The other possibility is that the airstones are causing more water > movement so the food is "moving" a lot more and the fish are reacting to that. > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles > referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically > under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) > > > -----Original Message----- > Kai wrote: > > Coincidence? Maybe. But ever since I replaced the wimpy air pump > with the relatively super-strong one, my fish have become very very > hungry. They're Tin Foil Barbs and Nessie the Tank Monster. She's a > Burmese Upside Down Catfish (who was only supposed to grow to be 3-4 > inches -- but they lied.) They were always polite and relatively > skimpy eaters but now they scarf down their food as if they haven't been fed for days (cross that out) weeks. > > What gives??? Did the bubbles make that much of a difference? > ~Kai

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 43560	From: kuradi8	Date: 9/24/2009
Subject: Re: Voracious!

I have no way of testing and I can only guess that the tank was not at the saturation level -- but it probably is now. The water temp seems to be stable. And I've got one of those AquaChem ammonia monitors that hasn't changed color at all. So everything seems to be the same except (probably) the O2 levels and their appetites! I'm not concerned, just curious. And thought you guys might be interested. ~Kai --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@...> wrote: > > Regardless of the amount of surface agitation, there can only be a certain > level of O2 in the water which is called the saturation level. If there was > already enough surface agitation provided by the HOB filters, which usually > provide plenty, then the air stones may not have increased the O2 levels. > Without testing, with the air stones off for several hours and then on for > several hours, it would be difficult to say whether the air stones have > increased the O2 levels. > > Algone.com used to have a decent, yet simple article about Dissolved Oxygen > levels but the page is not coming up any longer at > http://www.algone.com/oxygen.php. > > Here is Google's "cached" page. > http://74.125.47.132/search?q=cache:avNG1diVlfMJ:www.algone.com/oxygen.php+a > quarium+surface+agitation+dissolved+oxygen+levels&cd=1&hl=en&ct=clnk&gl=us > or http://preview.tinyurl.com/yaeyb5m > > Here is another good article on Loaches.com, about "Oxygen In The Aquarium". > http://www.loaches.com/articles/oxygen-in-the-aquarium > > There is always a BIG chance that it's just the food moving that is causing > the increase excitement level. > > One other thing to check... has the water temperature stayed the same since > the addition of the air pump? Cooler water will also hold higher O2 levels > than warmer water and water temperatures will also affect the metabolism of > fish. > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right > side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) > > > -----Original Message----- > From: Kai > > I can only assume that the O2 levels have increased more than I expected. > The old pump's output was wimpy but I tried to make up for it with aeration > from the "waterfall" hang-on filter. Yes, there is significantly more > surface agitation now. I'm just surprised at the difference in their > appetite levels. > > Bottom line: I'm very pleased with the Rena 400 for my 55g. > ~Kai > > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@> > wrote: > > > > IF... and that's a big IF... you had low O2 levels before the > > airstones, the fish would have been more lethargic and/or had lower > > metabolisms. Possibly, and that's IF you had low O2 levels before, > > the airstones are causing more surface agitation which creates better > > gas exchange allowing more CO2, etc., to outgas and more O2 to ingas > > into the water which would then allow the fish to become more active and > have higher metabolisms. > > > > From what I remember, you already had plenty of filtration on this > > tank and if you did, then you probably had sufficient O2 levels but > > you will have to clarify this point. > > > > The other possibility is that the airstones are causing more water > > movement so the food is "moving" a lot more and the fish are reacting to > that. > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles > > referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically > > under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > Kai wrote: > > > > Coincidence? Maybe. But ever since I replaced the wimpy air pump > > with the relatively super-strong one, my fish have become very very > > hungry. They're Tin Foil Barbs and Nessie the Tank Monster. She's a > > Burmese Upside Down Catfish (who was only supposed to grow to be 3-4 > > inches -- but they lied.) They were always polite and relatively > > skimpy eaters but now they scarf down their food as if they haven't been > fed for days (cross that out) weeks. > > > > What gives??? Did the bubbles make that much of a difference? > > ~Kai >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 43561	From: robbrouse	Date: 9/24/2009
Subject: fish food

I bought some Omega One Freshwater Flakes and I've seen they take forever to start to sink and I have no idea if my Black Neons are eating the food or not. I was wondering what is to be considered the best dry food to feed Neons? My corys eat the sinking pellets without an issue. Should I switch to something better and if yes what would be good? Robb

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 43562	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 9/24/2009
Subject: Re: fish food

I use a 1 oz. measuring spoon and dip it into the tank first, then put flake foods into that water and let it soak for a few seconds, then dip the spoon into the tank. This way, the flakes sink. The only fish that really like eating from the surface are those with upturned mouths. For example, a Betta splendis (common Betta) has an upturned mouth. Buenos Aires Tetras also have upturned mouths. Generally, the position and or orientation of a fish's mouth gives us a good idea of whether it's a surface feeder, middle feeder or bottom feeder. Neon Tetras fall into the middle feeder group so you should probably soak their foods first so they sink and float down to the bottom. They will still be able to eat off of the bottom and your bottom feeders, if you have any will also be able to eat any foods that make it down to the bottom. As far as good foods, Omega One Brand foods are some of the best products out there right now. Oops... while proofing my answer, I see you said "Black Neons" and I originally read that to be a color variant of Neon Tetras, since I was not familiar with this common name. I decided to Google an image and http://www.freshwaterhobbyist.com/infopages/images/black_neon_tetra.jpg shows that Black Neon Tetras actually do have an upturned mouth, meaning they are more of a surface feeder. The Mongabay profile http://fish.mongabay.com/species/Hyphessobrycon_herbertaxelrodi.html shows they like black mosquito larvae in nature which would further be a reason for their upturned mouth. Considering this, I guess the floating flakes are OK for them but if you think they like feeding on the flakes as they are sinking, then try soaking them for a few seconds first. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of robbrouse Sent: Thursday, September 24, 2009 1:07 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] fish food I bought some Omega One Freshwater Flakes and I've seen they take forever to start to sink and I have no idea if my Black Neons are eating the food or not. I was wondering what is to be considered the best dry food to feed Neons? My corys eat the sinking pellets without an issue. Should I switch to something better and if yes what would be good? Robb

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 43563	From: Dora Smith	Date: 9/24/2009
Subject: Re: fish food

I feed ocean nutrition formula one and formula two flakes. I don't know if it is the same thign as Omega. There are two brands that are really the same thing. I've not had that problem, and it's a very high quality food. New Life Spectrum small fish formula is relatively high quality, though not as much so as Ocean Nutrition, and it'll sure sink. Yours, Dora Smith Austin, TX tiggernut24@... ----- Original Message ----- From: "robbrouse" <robbrouse@...> To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Thursday, September 24, 2009 1:07 PM Subject: [AquaticLife] fish food I bought some Omega One Freshwater Flakes and I've seen they take forever to start to sink and I have no idea if my Black Neons are eating the food or not. I was wondering what is to be considered the best dry food to feed Neons? My corys eat the sinking pellets without an issue. Should I switch to something better and if yes what would be good? Robb ------------------------------------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the home page. Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com to receive the digest, which includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com for the No E-Mail option where you will still be able to read messages on the group and post replies. Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com to receive individual e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 43564	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 9/24/2009
Subject: Free Aquarium (4000 Gallons)

This is for those of you who live near, I think, Orlando, FL, but I am not sure where Sanford, Florida, really is. You do need to be able to move it. http://orlando.craigslist.org/zip/1377286878.html \\Steve//

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 43565	From: bill 1433	Date: 9/24/2009
Subject: Re: Free Aquarium (4000 Gallons)

Hi \\Steve//   My favorite part of the ad?  No, not the pictures---this line:   "This unit was a showplace and would make a great backyard focal point"   Now anyone with any sense of proportion would be able to see that for some, this thing could be a back-yard!  He quotes capacity at 4,000 gallons. What do ya figure for outside dimensions?  now where did I put that back-hoe license.  Be coming down I-95, I could swing over and pick you up? <g>   Bill --- On Thu, 9/24/09, Steve Szabo <steve@...> wrote: From: Steve Szabo <steve@...> Subject: [AquaticLife] Free Aquarium (4000 Gallons) To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Date: Thursday, September 24, 2009, 8:34 PM This is for those of you who live near, I think, Orlando, FL, but I am not sure where Sanford, Florida, really is. You do need to be able to move it. http://orlando.craigslist.org/zip/1377286878.html \\Steve// ------------------------------------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the home page.  Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com to receive the digest, which includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com for the No E-Mail option where you will still be able to read messages on the group and post replies. Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com to receive individual e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 43566	From: pam andress	Date: 9/24/2009
Subject: Re: Free Aquarium (4000 Gallons)

Plus it does NOT include the aquarium. Pam To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com From: warrenprint@... Date: Thu, 24 Sep 2009 17:54:16 -0700 Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Free Aquarium (4000 Gallons) Hi \\Steve// My favorite part of the ad? No, not the pictures---this line: "This unit was a showplace and would make a great backyard focal point" Now anyone with any sense of proportion would be able to see that for some, this thing could be a back-yard! He quotes capacity at 4,000 gallons. What do ya figure for outside dimensions? now where did I put that back-hoe license. Be coming down I-95, I could swing over and pick you up? <g> Bill --- On Thu, 9/24/09, Steve Szabo <steve@...> wrote: From: Steve Szabo <steve@...> Subject: [AquaticLife] Free Aquarium (4000 Gallons) To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Date: Thursday, September 24, 2009, 8:34 PM This is for those of you who live near, I think, Orlando, FL, but I am not sure where Sanford, Florida, really is. You do need to be able to move it. http://orlando.craigslist.org/zip/1377286878.html \\Steve// ------------------------------------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the home page. Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com to receive the digest, which includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com for the No E-Mail option where you will still be able to read messages on the group and post replies. Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com to receive individual e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 43567	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 9/24/2009
Subject: Re: Free Aquarium (4000 Gallons)

So... they're giving away bricks... wow ;) LOL. Amber pam andress wrote: > > > > Plus it does NOT include the aquarium. > > Pam > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > From: warrenprint@... <mailto:warrenprint%40yahoo.com> > Date: Thu, 24 Sep 2009 17:54:16 -0700 > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Free Aquarium (4000 Gallons) > > Hi \\Steve// > > My favorite part of the ad? No, not the pictures---this line: > > "This unit was a showplace and would make a great backyard focal point" > > Now anyone with any sense of proportion would be able to see that for > some, this thing could be a back-yard! He quotes capacity at 4,000 > gallons. What do ya figure for outside dimensions? now where did I put > that back-hoe license. Be coming down I-95, I could swing over and > pick you up? <g> > > Bill > > --- On Thu, 9/24/09, Steve Szabo <steve@... > <mailto:steve%40familyszabo.com>> wrote: > > From: Steve Szabo <steve@... <mailto:steve%40familyszabo.com>> > Subject: [AquaticLife] Free Aquarium (4000 Gallons) > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Date: Thursday, September 24, 2009, 8:34 PM > > This is for those of you who live near, I think, Orlando, FL, but I am > not sure where Sanford, Florida, really is. > > You do need to be able to move it. > > http://orlando.craigslist.org/zip/1377286878.html > <http://orlando.craigslist.org/zip/1377286878.html> > > \\Steve// > > ------------------------------------ > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. > ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> > PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT > important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message > MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- > <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. > > If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of unsubscribing, > you can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My > Membership" on the home page. > > Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:aquaticlife-digest%40yahoogroups.com> to receive the digest, > which includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email > > Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:aquaticlife-nomail%40yahoogroups.com> for the No E-Mail option > where you will still be able to read messages on the group and post > replies. > > Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:aquaticlife-normal%40yahoogroups.com> to receive individual > e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 43568	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 9/24/2009
Subject: Re: Free Aquarium (4000 Gallons)

Gosh I couldn't imagine trying to find a place for an aquarium that big, it's probably as big as my condo and bigger than my front porch ;) LOL. Does a front porch count as a fish tank stand? ;) Amber bill 1433 wrote: > > > > Hi \\Steve// > > My favorite part of the ad? No, not the pictures---this line: > > "This unit was a showplace and would make a great backyard focal point" > > Now anyone with any sense of proportion would be able to see that for > some, this thing could be a back-yard! He quotes capacity at 4,000 > gallons. What do ya figure for outside dimensions? now where did I > put that back-hoe license. Be coming down I-95, I could swing over > and pick you up? <g> > > Bill > > --- On Thu, 9/24/09, Steve Szabo <steve@... > <mailto:steve%40familyszabo.com>> wrote: > > From: Steve Szabo <steve@... <mailto:steve%40familyszabo.com>> > Subject: [AquaticLife] Free Aquarium (4000 Gallons) > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Date: Thursday, September 24, 2009, 8:34 PM > > This is for those of you who live near, I think, Orlando, FL, but I am > not sure where Sanford, Florida, really is. > > You do need to be able to move it. > > http://orlando.craigslist.org/zip/1377286878.html > <http://orlando.craigslist.org/zip/1377286878.html> > > \\Steve// > > ------------------------------------ > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. > ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> > PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT > important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message > MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- > <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. > > If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of unsubscribing, > you can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My > Membership" on the home page. > > Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:aquaticlife-digest%40yahoogroups.com> to receive the digest, > which includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email > > Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:aquaticlife-nomail%40yahoogroups.com> for the No E-Mail option > where you will still be able to read messages on the group and post > replies. > > Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:aquaticlife-normal%40yahoogroups.com> to receive individual > e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 43569	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 9/24/2009
Subject: Re: Free Aquarium (4000 Gallons)

Only if the aquarium is on the roof of the porch. \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Amber Berglund Sent: Thursday, September 24, 2009 9:06 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Free Aquarium (4000 Gallons) Gosh I couldn't imagine trying to find a place for an aquarium that big, it's probably as big as my condo and bigger than my front porch ;) LOL. Does a front porch count as a fish tank stand? ;) Amber bill 1433 wrote: > > > > Hi \\Steve// > > My favorite part of the ad? No, not the pictures---this line: > > "This unit was a showplace and would make a great backyard focal point" > > Now anyone with any sense of proportion would be able to see that for > some, this thing could be a back-yard! He quotes capacity at 4,000 > gallons. What do ya figure for outside dimensions? now where did I > put that back-hoe license. Be coming down I-95, I could swing over > and pick you up? <g> > > Bill > > --- On Thu, 9/24/09, Steve Szabo <steve@... > <mailto:steve%40familyszabo.com>> wrote: > > From: Steve Szabo <steve@... <mailto:steve%40familyszabo.com>> > Subject: [AquaticLife] Free Aquarium (4000 Gallons) > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Date: Thursday, September 24, 2009, 8:34 PM > > This is for those of you who live near, I think, Orlando, FL, but I am > not sure where Sanford, Florida, really is. > > You do need to be able to move it. > > http://orlando.craigslist.org/zip/1377286878.html > <http://orlando.craigslist.org/zip/1377286878.html> > > \\Steve// > > ------------------------------------ > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. > ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> > PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT > important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message > MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- > <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. > > If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of unsubscribing, > you can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My > Membership" on the home page. > > Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:aquaticlife-digest%40yahoogroups.com> to receive the digest, > which includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email > > Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:aquaticlife-nomail%40yahoogroups.com> for the No E-Mail option > where you will still be able to read messages on the group and post > replies. > > Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:aquaticlife-normal%40yahoogroups.com> to receive individual > e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links > > ------------------------------------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the home page. Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com to receive the digest, which includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com for the No E-Mail option where you will still be able to read messages on the group and post replies. Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com to receive individual e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 43570	From: Heather	Date: 9/24/2009
Subject: Re: Free Aquarium (4000 Gallons)

Plus it states Free Aquarium and in reality its just a free aquarium stand. Granted a HUGE aquarium stand but finding the aquarium to go in that stand would cost a small fortune. Huge Hugs~Heather http://www.youravon.com/hbroschayt --- On Thu, 9/24/09, bill 1433 <warrenprint@...> wrote: From: bill 1433 <warrenprint@...> Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Free Aquarium (4000 Gallons) To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Date: Thursday, September 24, 2009, 7:54 PM   Hi \\Steve//   My favorite part of the ad?  No, not the pictures---this line:   "This unit was a showplace and would make a great backyard focal point"   Now anyone with any sense of proportion would be able to see that for some, this thing could be a back-yard!  He quotes capacity at 4,000 gallons. What do ya figure for outside dimensions?  now where did I put that back-hoe license.  Be coming down I-95, I could swing over and pick you up? <g>   Bill --- On Thu, 9/24/09, Steve Szabo <steve@familyszabo. com> wrote: From: Steve Szabo <steve@familyszabo. com> Subject: [AquaticLife] Free Aquarium (4000 Gallons) To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com Date: Thursday, September 24, 2009, 8:34 PM This is for those of you who live near, I think, Orlando, FL, but I am not sure where Sanford, Florida, really is. You do need to be able to move it. http://orlando. craigslist. org/zip/13772868 78.html \\Steve// ------------ --------- --------- ------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the home page.  Or e-mail aquaticlife- digest@yahoogrou ps.com to receive the digest, which includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email Or email aquaticlife- nomail@yahoogrou ps.com for the No E-Mail option where you will still be able to read messages on the group and post replies. Or email aquaticlife- normal@yahoogrou ps.com to receive individual e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 43571	From: biG poppa	Date: 9/24/2009
Subject: Re: Free Aquarium (4000 Gallons)

omg close to me 3hr drive at most sorry dont have heavy equipment..lol --- On Thu, 9/24/09, Steve Szabo <steve@...> wrote: From: Steve Szabo <steve@...> Subject: [AquaticLife] Free Aquarium (4000 Gallons) To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Date: Thursday, September 24, 2009, 8:34 PM   This is for those of you who live near, I think, Orlando, FL, but I am not sure where Sanford, Florida, really is. You do need to be able to move it. http://orlando. craigslist. org/zip/13772868 78.html \\Steve// [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 43572	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 9/24/2009
Subject: Re: Free Aquarium (4000 Gallons)

Well shucks, I don't have a roof on my porch ;) LOL Amber Steve Szabo wrote: > > > Only if the aquarium is on the roof of the porch. > > \\Steve// > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On Behalf Of Amber Berglund > Sent: Thursday, September 24, 2009 9:06 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Free Aquarium (4000 Gallons) > > Gosh I couldn't imagine trying to find a place for an aquarium that big, > it's probably as big as my condo and bigger than my front porch ;) LOL. > Does a front porch count as a fish tank stand? ;) > > Amber > > bill 1433 wrote: > > > > > > > > Hi \\Steve// > > > > My favorite part of the ad? No, not the pictures---this line: > > > > "This unit was a showplace and would make a great backyard focal point" > > > > Now anyone with any sense of proportion would be able to see that for > > some, this thing could be a back-yard! He quotes capacity at 4,000 > > gallons. What do ya figure for outside dimensions? now where did I > > put that back-hoe license. Be coming down I-95, I could swing over > > and pick you up? <g> > > > > Bill > > > > --- On Thu, 9/24/09, Steve Szabo <steve@... > <mailto:steve%40familyszabo.com> > > <mailto:steve%40familyszabo.com>> wrote: > > > > From: Steve Szabo <steve@... > <mailto:steve%40familyszabo.com> <mailto:steve%40familyszabo.com>> > > Subject: [AquaticLife] Free Aquarium (4000 Gallons) > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > Date: Thursday, September 24, 2009, 8:34 PM > > > > This is for those of you who live near, I think, Orlando, FL, but I am > > not sure where Sanford, Florida, really is. > > > > You do need to be able to move it. > > > > http://orlando.craigslist.org/zip/1377286878.html > <http://orlando.craigslist.org/zip/1377286878.html> > > <http://orlando.craigslist.org/zip/1377286878.html > <http://orlando.craigslist.org/zip/1377286878.html>> > > > > \\Steve// > > > > ------------------------------------ > > > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, > Thank You. > > ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> > > PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT > > important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message > > MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- > > <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. > > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. > > > > If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of unsubscribing, > > you can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My > > Membership" on the home page. > > > > Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:aquaticlife-digest%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:aquaticlife-digest%40yahoogroups.com> to receive the digest, > > which includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email > > > > Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:aquaticlife-nomail%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:aquaticlife-nomail%40yahoogroups.com> for the No E-Mail option > > where you will still be able to read messages on the group and post > > replies. > > > > Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:aquaticlife-normal%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:aquaticlife-normal%40yahoogroups.com> to receive individual > > e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > ------------------------------------ > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. > ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> > PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT > important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message > MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- > <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. > > If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of unsubscribing, > you can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My > Membership" on the home page. > > Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:aquaticlife-digest%40yahoogroups.com> to receive the digest, > which includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email > > Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:aquaticlife-nomail%40yahoogroups.com> for the No E-Mail option > where you will still be able to read messages on the group and post > replies. > > Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:aquaticlife-normal%40yahoogroups.com> to receive individual > e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 43573	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 9/24/2009
Subject: Re: Free Aquarium (4000 Gallons)

Then in might, more properly, be called a deck or terrace rather than a porch. \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Amber Berglund Sent: Thursday, September 24, 2009 10:01 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Free Aquarium (4000 Gallons) Well shucks, I don't have a roof on my porch ;) LOL Amber Steve Szabo wrote: > > > Only if the aquarium is on the roof of the porch. > > \\Steve// > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On Behalf Of Amber Berglund > Sent: Thursday, September 24, 2009 9:06 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Free Aquarium (4000 Gallons) > > Gosh I couldn't imagine trying to find a place for an aquarium that big, > it's probably as big as my condo and bigger than my front porch ;) LOL. > Does a front porch count as a fish tank stand? ;) > > Amber > > bill 1433 wrote: > > > > > > > > Hi \\Steve// > > > > My favorite part of the ad? No, not the pictures---this line: > > > > "This unit was a showplace and would make a great backyard focal point" > > > > Now anyone with any sense of proportion would be able to see that for > > some, this thing could be a back-yard! He quotes capacity at 4,000 > > gallons. What do ya figure for outside dimensions? now where did I > > put that back-hoe license. Be coming down I-95, I could swing over > > and pick you up? <g> > > > > Bill > > > > --- On Thu, 9/24/09, Steve Szabo <steve@... > <mailto:steve%40familyszabo.com> > > <mailto:steve%40familyszabo.com>> wrote: > > > > From: Steve Szabo <steve@... > <mailto:steve%40familyszabo.com> <mailto:steve%40familyszabo.com>> > > Subject: [AquaticLife] Free Aquarium (4000 Gallons) > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > Date: Thursday, September 24, 2009, 8:34 PM > > > > This is for those of you who live near, I think, Orlando, FL, but I am > > not sure where Sanford, Florida, really is. > > > > You do need to be able to move it. > > > > http://orlando.craigslist.org/zip/1377286878.html > <http://orlando.craigslist.org/zip/1377286878.html> > > <http://orlando.craigslist.org/zip/1377286878.html > <http://orlando.craigslist.org/zip/1377286878.html>> > > > > \\Steve// > > > > ------------------------------------ > > > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, > Thank You. > > ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> > > PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT > > important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message > > MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- > > <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. > > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. > > > > If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of unsubscribing, > > you can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My > > Membership" on the home page. > > > > Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:aquaticlife-digest%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:aquaticlife-digest%40yahoogroups.com> to receive the digest, > > which includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email > > > > Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:aquaticlife-nomail%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:aquaticlife-nomail%40yahoogroups.com> for the No E-Mail option > > where you will still be able to read messages on the group and post > > replies. > > > > Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:aquaticlife-normal%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:aquaticlife-normal%40yahoogroups.com> to receive individual > > e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > ------------------------------------ > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. > ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> > PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT > important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message > MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- > <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. > > If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of unsubscribing, > you can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My > Membership" on the home page. > > Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:aquaticlife-digest%40yahoogroups.com> to receive the digest, > which includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email > > Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:aquaticlife-nomail%40yahoogroups.com> for the No E-Mail option > where you will still be able to read messages on the group and post > replies. > > Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:aquaticlife-normal%40yahoogroups.com> to receive individual > e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links > > ------------------------------------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the home page. Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com to receive the digest, which includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com for the No E-Mail option where you will still be able to read messages on the group and post replies. Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com to receive individual e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 43574	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 9/24/2009
Subject: Re: Free Aquarium (4000 Gallons)

Why are folks saying it's only a stand and not the aquarium? The photos clearly show an aquarium structure with a glass front window and large Koi swimming around inside of it. Yes, it's not an all glass aquarium but it is an aquarium... made of concrete, with a glass window and quarry slate siding. It looks like it might fit in the back of my largest pick-up truck... but then I'll need a flat bed tow truck to tow my flattened pick-up truck. I wonder how much a 1,000 mile tow would cost? ;-) Oh.. one other thing.. is that a leak down the front below the glass window and on the sides??? I see that the quarry slate appears to be wet and algae covered so maybe only the top half of this structure is the actual aquarium and the concrete sealant needs to be redone so it will stop leaching/leaking water. One last thing... is that rolled barb-wire on the top of this thing that can be seen in the top right image, on the left side of the roof area? Maybe the neighborhood kids were going swimming??? Heck, maybe Obama will buy this thing and use it for Gitmo terrorists. Set it up at 1600 Pennsylvania Avenue and sell tickets to the tourists to come see the terrorists. ;-) Or maybe house the latest crooked politician in the thing. Now, I'd pay to see that.. especially if my own local crook, William "Dollar Bill" Jefferson, is first!!! ;-) Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of pam andress Sent: Thursday, September 24, 2009 8:09 PM To: aquaticlife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Free Aquarium (4000 Gallons) Plus it does NOT include the aquarium. Pam To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com From: warrenprint@... Date: Thu, 24 Sep 2009 17:54:16 -0700 Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Free Aquarium (4000 Gallons) Hi \\Steve// My favorite part of the ad? No, not the pictures---this line: "This unit was a showplace and would make a great backyard focal point" Now anyone with any sense of proportion would be able to see that for some, this thing could be a back-yard! He quotes capacity at 4,000 gallons. What do ya figure for outside dimensions? now where did I put that back-hoe license. Be coming down I-95, I could swing over and pick you up? <g> Bill --- On Thu, 9/24/09, Steve Szabo <steve@...> wrote: From: Steve Szabo <steve@...> Subject: [AquaticLife] Free Aquarium (4000 Gallons) To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Date: Thursday, September 24, 2009, 8:34 PM This is for those of you who live near, I think, Orlando, FL, but I am not sure where Sanford, Florida, really is. You do need to be able to move it. http://orlando.craigslist.org/zip/1377286878.html \\Steve//

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 43575	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 9/24/2009
Subject: Re: Free Aquarium (4000 Gallons)

Come on Big Poppa. Go to a nearby construction site where they are using a crane and hijack the crane (and the truck it was delivered on) and go get it. Or wait till Saturday and maybe if you offer the construction crew a 12-pack or two, they'll even help. ;-) Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of biG poppa Sent: Thursday, September 24, 2009 8:03 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Free Aquarium (4000 Gallons) omg close to me 3hr drive at most sorry dont have heavy equipment..lol --- On Thu, 9/24/09, Steve Szabo <steve@...> wrote: From: Steve Szabo <steve@...> Subject: [AquaticLife] Free Aquarium (4000 Gallons) To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Date: Thursday, September 24, 2009, 8:34 PM   This is for those of you who live near, I think, Orlando, FL, but I am not sure where Sanford, Florida, really is. You do need to be able to move it. http://orlando.craigslist.org/zip/1377286878.html \\Steve//

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 43576	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 9/24/2009
Subject: Re: Free Aquarium (4000 Gallons)

At the bottom of the ad it says, "Aquarium not included" Lenny ;) Amber Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > > > Why are folks saying it's only a stand and not the aquarium? The photos > clearly show an aquarium structure with a glass front window and large Koi > swimming around inside of it. Yes, it's not an all glass aquarium but > it is > an aquarium... made of concrete, with a glass window and quarry slate > siding. > > It looks like it might fit in the back of my largest pick-up truck... but > then I'll need a flat bed tow truck to tow my flattened pick-up truck. I > wonder how much a 1,000 mile tow would cost? ;-) > > Oh.. one other thing.. is that a leak down the front below the glass > window > and on the sides??? I see that the quarry slate appears to be wet and > algae > covered so maybe only the top half of this structure is the actual > aquarium > and the concrete sealant needs to be redone so it will stop > leaching/leaking > water. > > One last thing... is that rolled barb-wire on the top of this thing > that can > be seen in the top right image, on the left side of the roof area? Maybe > the neighborhood kids were going swimming??? Heck, maybe Obama will buy > this thing and use it for Gitmo terrorists. Set it up at 1600 Pennsylvania > Avenue and sell tickets to the tourists to come see the terrorists. ;-) Or > maybe house the latest crooked politician in the thing. Now, I'd pay > to see > that.. especially if my own local crook, William "Dollar Bill" > Jefferson, is > first!!! ;-) > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right > side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On > Behalf Of pam andress > Sent: Thursday, September 24, 2009 8:09 PM > To: aquaticlife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:aquaticlife%40yahoogroups.com> > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Free Aquarium (4000 Gallons) > > Plus it does NOT include the aquarium. > > Pam > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > From: warrenprint@... <mailto:warrenprint%40yahoo.com> > Date: Thu, 24 Sep 2009 17:54:16 -0700 > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Free Aquarium (4000 Gallons) > > Hi \\Steve// > > My favorite part of the ad? No, not the pictures---this line: > > "This unit was a showplace and would make a great backyard focal point" > > Now anyone with any sense of proportion would be able to see that for > some, > this thing could be a back-yard! He quotes capacity at 4,000 gallons. What > do ya figure for outside dimensions? now where did I put that back-hoe > license. Be coming down I-95, I could swing over and pick you up? <g> > > Bill > > --- On Thu, 9/24/09, Steve Szabo <steve@... > <mailto:steve%40familyszabo.com>> wrote: > > From: Steve Szabo <steve@... <mailto:steve%40familyszabo.com>> > Subject: [AquaticLife] Free Aquarium (4000 Gallons) > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Date: Thursday, September 24, 2009, 8:34 PM > > This is for those of you who live near, I think, Orlando, FL, but I am not > sure where Sanford, Florida, really is. > > You do need to be able to move it. > > http://orlando.craigslist.org/zip/1377286878.html > <http://orlando.craigslist.org/zip/1377286878.html> > > \\Steve// > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 43577	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 9/24/2009
Subject: Re: Free Aquarium (4000 Gallons)

Well that's a really screwy ad then since the subject line and first sentence specifically states a "Free Aquarium" and "Free 4000 gallon aquarium". Do you think they meant to say "Aquarium Guy not included" or "Sign not included", although I do not see the "sign" that they reference in that line anyhow. Since the aquarium is the actual structure, I'm not sure what they are talking about. The concrete and stone structure IS the aquarium as far as I can tell. The front glass panel shows fish inside of the structure. We ought to ALL email this CL poster and ask them to fix their screwy ad. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Amber Berglund Sent: Thursday, September 24, 2009 11:14 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Free Aquarium (4000 Gallons) At the bottom of the ad it says, "Aquarium not included" Lenny ;) Amber Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > > > Why are folks saying it's only a stand and not the aquarium? The > photos clearly show an aquarium structure with a glass front window > and large Koi swimming around inside of it. Yes, it's not an all glass > aquarium but it is an aquarium... made of concrete, with a glass > window and quarry slate siding. > > It looks like it might fit in the back of my largest pick-up truck... > but then I'll need a flat bed tow truck to tow my flattened pick-up > truck. I wonder how much a 1,000 mile tow would cost? ;-) > > Oh.. one other thing.. is that a leak down the front below the glass > window and on the sides??? I see that the quarry slate appears to be > wet and algae covered so maybe only the top half of this structure is > the actual aquarium and the concrete sealant needs to be redone so it > will stop leaching/leaking water. > > One last thing... is that rolled barb-wire on the top of this thing > that can be seen in the top right image, on the left side of the roof > area? Maybe the neighborhood kids were going swimming??? Heck, maybe > Obama will buy this thing and use it for Gitmo terrorists. Set it up > at 1600 Pennsylvania Avenue and sell tickets to the tourists to come > see the terrorists. ;-) Or maybe house the latest crooked politician > in the thing. Now, I'd pay to see that.. especially if my own local > crook, William "Dollar Bill" > Jefferson, is > first!!! ;-) > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> (Links to any articles referenced in > above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels > and also under Archives by Year, Month) > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On Behalf Of pam andress > Sent: Thursday, September 24, 2009 8:09 PM > To: aquaticlife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:aquaticlife%40yahoogroups.com> > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Free Aquarium (4000 Gallons) > > Plus it does NOT include the aquarium. > > Pam > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > From: warrenprint@... <mailto:warrenprint%40yahoo.com> > Date: Thu, 24 Sep 2009 17:54:16 -0700 > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Free Aquarium (4000 Gallons) > > Hi \\Steve// > > My favorite part of the ad? No, not the pictures---this line: > > "This unit was a showplace and would make a great backyard focal point" > > Now anyone with any sense of proportion would be able to see that for > some, this thing could be a back-yard! He quotes capacity at 4,000 > gallons. What do ya figure for outside dimensions? now where did I put > that back-hoe license. Be coming down I-95, I could swing over and > pick you up? <g> > > Bill > > --- On Thu, 9/24/09, Steve Szabo <steve@... > <mailto:steve%40familyszabo.com>> wrote: > > From: Steve Szabo <steve@... > <mailto:steve%40familyszabo.com>> > Subject: [AquaticLife] Free Aquarium (4000 Gallons) > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Date: Thursday, September 24, 2009, 8:34 PM > > This is for those of you who live near, I think, Orlando, FL, but I am > not sure where Sanford, Florida, really is. > > You do need to be able to move it. > > http://orlando.craigslist.org/zip/1377286878.html > <http://orlando.craigslist.org/zip/1377286878.html> > > \\Steve// > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 43578	From: pam andress	Date: 9/24/2009
Subject: Re: Free Aquarium (4000 Gallons)

That add states this: Use it as an aquarium (you will need to provide all the parts needed as it is just the concrete and stone) Picture below shows sign with the aquarium attached (aquarium not included). Pam To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com From: GoldLenny@... Date: Thu, 24 Sep 2009 22:48:54 -0500 Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Free Aquarium (4000 Gallons) Why are folks saying it's only a stand and not the aquarium? The photos clearly show an aquarium structure with a glass front window and large Koi swimming around inside of it. Yes, it's not an all glass aquarium but it is an aquarium... made of concrete, with a glass window and quarry slate siding. It looks like it might fit in the back of my largest pick-up truck... but then I'll need a flat bed tow truck to tow my flattened pick-up truck. I wonder how much a 1,000 mile tow would cost? ;-) Oh.. one other thing.. is that a leak down the front below the glass window and on the sides??? I see that the quarry slate appears to be wet and algae covered so maybe only the top half of this structure is the actual aquarium and the concrete sealant needs to be redone so it will stop leaching/leaking water. One last thing... is that rolled barb-wire on the top of this thing that can be seen in the top right image, on the left side of the roof area? Maybe the neighborhood kids were going swimming??? Heck, maybe Obama will buy this thing and use it for Gitmo terrorists. Set it up at 1600 Pennsylvania Avenue and sell tickets to the tourists to come see the terrorists. ;-) Or maybe house the latest crooked politician in the thing. Now, I'd pay to see that.. especially if my own local crook, William "Dollar Bill" Jefferson, is first!!! ;-) Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of pam andress Sent: Thursday, September 24, 2009 8:09 PM To: aquaticlife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Free Aquarium (4000 Gallons) Plus it does NOT include the aquarium. Pam To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com From: warrenprint@... Date: Thu, 24 Sep 2009 17:54:16 -0700 Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Free Aquarium (4000 Gallons) Hi \\Steve// My favorite part of the ad? No, not the pictures---this line: "This unit was a showplace and would make a great backyard focal point" Now anyone with any sense of proportion would be able to see that for some, this thing could be a back-yard! He quotes capacity at 4,000 gallons. What do ya figure for outside dimensions? now where did I put that back-hoe license. Be coming down I-95, I could swing over and pick you up? <g> Bill --- On Thu, 9/24/09, Steve Szabo <steve@...> wrote: From: Steve Szabo <steve@...> Subject: [AquaticLife] Free Aquarium (4000 Gallons) To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Date: Thursday, September 24, 2009, 8:34 PM This is for those of you who live near, I think, Orlando, FL, but I am not sure where Sanford, Florida, really is. You do need to be able to move it. http://orlando.craigslist.org/zip/1377286878.html \\Steve// [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 43579	From: Heather	Date: 9/25/2009
Subject: Re: Free Aquarium (4000 Gallons)

It says that the pictures are shown with aquarium but that the aquarium is not included. Huge Hugs~Heather http://www.youravon.com/hbroschayt --- On Thu, 9/24/09, Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@...> wrote: From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@...> Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Free Aquarium (4000 Gallons) To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Date: Thursday, September 24, 2009, 10:48 PM   Why are folks saying it's only a stand and not the aquarium? The photos clearly show an aquarium structure with a glass front window and large Koi swimming around inside of it. Yes, it's not an all glass aquarium but it is an aquarium... made of concrete, with a glass window and quarry slate siding. It looks like it might fit in the back of my largest pick-up truck... but then I'll need a flat bed tow truck to tow my flattened pick-up truck. I wonder how much a 1,000 mile tow would cost? ;-) Oh.. one other thing.. is that a leak down the front below the glass window and on the sides??? I see that the quarry slate appears to be wet and algae covered so maybe only the top half of this structure is the actual aquarium and the concrete sealant needs to be redone so it will stop leaching/leaking water. One last thing... is that rolled barb-wire on the top of this thing that can be seen in the top right image, on the left side of the roof area? Maybe the neighborhood kids were going swimming??? Heck, maybe Obama will buy this thing and use it for Gitmo terrorists. Set it up at 1600 Pennsylvania Avenue and sell tickets to the tourists to come see the terrorists. ;-) Or maybe house the latest crooked politician in the thing. Now, I'd pay to see that.. especially if my own local crook, William "Dollar Bill" Jefferson, is first!!! ;-) Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com [mailto:AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com] On Behalf Of pam andress Sent: Thursday, September 24, 2009 8:09 PM To: aquaticlife@ yahoogroups. com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Free Aquarium (4000 Gallons) Plus it does NOT include the aquarium. Pam To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com From: warrenprint@ yahoo.com Date: Thu, 24 Sep 2009 17:54:16 -0700 Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Free Aquarium (4000 Gallons) Hi \\Steve// My favorite part of the ad? No, not the pictures---this line: "This unit was a showplace and would make a great backyard focal point" Now anyone with any sense of proportion would be able to see that for some, this thing could be a back-yard! He quotes capacity at 4,000 gallons. What do ya figure for outside dimensions? now where did I put that back-hoe license. Be coming down I-95, I could swing over and pick you up? <g> Bill --- On Thu, 9/24/09, Steve Szabo <steve@familyszabo. com> wrote: From: Steve Szabo <steve@familyszabo. com> Subject: [AquaticLife] Free Aquarium (4000 Gallons) To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com Date: Thursday, September 24, 2009, 8:34 PM This is for those of you who live near, I think, Orlando, FL, but I am not sure where Sanford, Florida, really is. You do need to be able to move it. http://orlando. craigslist. org/zip/13772868 78.html \\Steve// [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 43580	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 9/25/2009
Subject: Re: Free Aquarium (4000 Gallons)

I kind of took this to mean filtration. I guess that there could have been a 4,000G glass/acrylic aquarium slid into the structure but I figured the concrete was the sides on three sides and then the glass front panel but maybe they set a 4,000G glass aquarium on top of the concrete stand and then built up the sides around it. Whatever the case, folks should email this CL ad poster and tell them to edit the ad if there is no "Free Aquarium"... or maybe send this one to Jay Leno for a stupid ad segment. "Free Aquarium".... (aquarium not included). LOL Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of pam andress Sent: Friday, September 25, 2009 12:49 AM To: aquaticlife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Free Aquarium (4000 Gallons) That add states this: Use it as an aquarium (you will need to provide all the parts needed as it is just the concrete and stone) Picture below shows sign with the aquarium attached (aquarium not included). Pam To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com From: GoldLenny@... Date: Thu, 24 Sep 2009 22:48:54 -0500 Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Free Aquarium (4000 Gallons) Why are folks saying it's only a stand and not the aquarium? The photos clearly show an aquarium structure with a glass front window and large Koi swimming around inside of it. Yes, it's not an all glass aquarium but it is an aquarium... made of concrete, with a glass window and quarry slate siding. It looks like it might fit in the back of my largest pick-up truck... but then I'll need a flat bed tow truck to tow my flattened pick-up truck. I wonder how much a 1,000 mile tow would cost? ;-) Oh.. one other thing.. is that a leak down the front below the glass window and on the sides??? I see that the quarry slate appears to be wet and algae covered so maybe only the top half of this structure is the actual aquarium and the concrete sealant needs to be redone so it will stop leaching/leaking water. One last thing... is that rolled barb-wire on the top of this thing that can be seen in the top right image, on the left side of the roof area? Maybe the neighborhood kids were going swimming??? Heck, maybe Obama will buy this thing and use it for Gitmo terrorists. Set it up at 1600 Pennsylvania Avenue and sell tickets to the tourists to come see the terrorists. ;-) Or maybe house the latest crooked politician in the thing. Now, I'd pay to see that.. especially if my own local crook, William "Dollar Bill" Jefferson, is first!!! ;-) Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of pam andress Sent: Thursday, September 24, 2009 8:09 PM To: aquaticlife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Free Aquarium (4000 Gallons) Plus it does NOT include the aquarium. Pam To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com From: warrenprint@... Date: Thu, 24 Sep 2009 17:54:16 -0700 Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Free Aquarium (4000 Gallons) Hi \\Steve// My favorite part of the ad? No, not the pictures---this line: "This unit was a showplace and would make a great backyard focal point" Now anyone with any sense of proportion would be able to see that for some, this thing could be a back-yard! He quotes capacity at 4,000 gallons. What do ya figure for outside dimensions? now where did I put that back-hoe license. Be coming down I-95, I could swing over and pick you up? <g> Bill --- On Thu, 9/24/09, Steve Szabo <steve@...> wrote: From: Steve Szabo <steve@...> Subject: [AquaticLife] Free Aquarium (4000 Gallons) To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Date: Thursday, September 24, 2009, 8:34 PM This is for those of you who live near, I think, Orlando, FL, but I am not sure where Sanford, Florida, really is. You do need to be able to move it. http://orlando.craigslist.org/zip/1377286878.html \\Steve// [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] ------------------------------------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the home page. Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com to receive the digest, which includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com for the No E-Mail option where you will still be able to read messages on the group and post replies. Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com to receive individual e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 43581	From: bill 1433	Date: 9/25/2009
Subject: Re: Free Aquarium (4000 Gallons)

May I please ask the obvious questions here? Why doesn't someone simply email this guy and get the real answers and particulars on this thing? Also, since moving it is to be the main issue, what is it's over-all size?  He already gives the weight.  Come on Gang, the old aquarium math! L X W X H !!!!!!!!!!!!! only you don't need to divide by the 231! We already know the gallons! In other words----------------will it fit on a semi flat-bed or tractor-trailer? Height and width are important, road permits for wide or over-sized load's, for bridge and overhead clearance may be necessary!   Finally for Amber?  Don't let these folks discourage you!  You can use this thing on your front porch or as the porch for that matter!  Its just like moving any large structure, as long as your footings or foundation will take the weight, your good to go! Just think of what hubby will say when they wheel this thing in!   Bill --- On Fri, 9/25/09, Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@...> wrote: From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@...> Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Free Aquarium (4000 Gallons) To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Date: Friday, September 25, 2009, 10:53 AM I kind of took this to mean filtration.  I guess that there could have been a 4,000G glass/acrylic aquarium slid into the structure but I figured the concrete was the sides on three sides and then the glass front panel but maybe they set a 4,000G glass aquarium on top of the concrete stand and then built up the sides around it.  Whatever the case, folks should email this CL ad poster and tell them to edit the ad if there is no "Free Aquarium"... or maybe send this one to Jay Leno for a stupid ad segment. "Free Aquarium".... (aquarium not included).  LOL Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of pam andress Sent: Friday, September 25, 2009 12:49 AM To: aquaticlife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Free Aquarium (4000 Gallons) That add states this: Use it as an aquarium (you will need to provide all the parts needed as it is just the concrete and stone) Picture below shows sign with the aquarium attached (aquarium not included). Pam To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com From: GoldLenny@... Date: Thu, 24 Sep 2009 22:48:54 -0500 Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Free Aquarium (4000 Gallons)   Why are folks saying it's only a stand and not the aquarium? The photos clearly show an aquarium structure with a glass front window and large Koi swimming around inside of it. Yes, it's not an all glass aquarium but it is an aquarium... made of concrete, with a glass window and quarry slate siding. It looks like it might fit in the back of my largest pick-up truck... but then I'll need a flat bed tow truck to tow my flattened pick-up truck. I wonder how much a 1,000 mile tow would cost? ;-) Oh.. one other thing.. is that a leak down the front below the glass window and on the sides??? I see that the quarry slate appears to be wet and algae covered so maybe only the top half of this structure is the actual aquarium and the concrete sealant needs to be redone so it will stop leaching/leaking water. One last thing... is that rolled barb-wire on the top of this thing that can be seen in the top right image, on the left side of the roof area? Maybe the neighborhood kids were going swimming??? Heck, maybe Obama will buy this thing and use it for Gitmo terrorists. Set it up at 1600 Pennsylvania Avenue and sell tickets to the tourists to come see the terrorists. ;-) Or maybe house the latest crooked politician in the thing. Now, I'd pay to see that.. especially if my own local crook, William "Dollar Bill" Jefferson, is first!!! ;-) Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of pam andress Sent: Thursday, September 24, 2009 8:09 PM To: aquaticlife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Free Aquarium (4000 Gallons) Plus it does NOT include the aquarium. Pam To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com From: warrenprint@... Date: Thu, 24 Sep 2009 17:54:16 -0700 Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Free Aquarium (4000 Gallons) Hi \\Steve// My favorite part of the ad? No, not the pictures---this line: "This unit was a showplace and would make a great backyard focal point" Now anyone with any sense of proportion would be able to see that for some, this thing could be a back-yard! He quotes capacity at 4,000 gallons. What do ya figure for outside dimensions? now where did I put that back-hoe license. Be coming down I-95, I could swing over and pick you up? <g> Bill --- On Thu, 9/24/09, Steve Szabo <steve@...> wrote: From: Steve Szabo <steve@...> Subject: [AquaticLife] Free Aquarium (4000 Gallons) To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Date: Thursday, September 24, 2009, 8:34 PM This is for those of you who live near, I think, Orlando, FL, but I am not sure where Sanford, Florida, really is. You do need to be able to move it. http://orlando.craigslist.org/zip/1377286878.html \\Steve//                           [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] ------------------------------------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the home page.  Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com to receive the digest, which includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com for the No E-Mail option where you will still be able to read messages on the group and post replies. Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com to receive individual e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links ------------------------------------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the home page.  Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com to receive the digest, which includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com for the No E-Mail option where you will still be able to read messages on the group and post replies. Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com to receive individual e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 43582	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 9/25/2009
Subject: Re: Free Aquarium (4000 Gallons)

Well that's the thing Bill, I don't want to think about what the hubby will say when something like that arrived at our doorstep ;) LOL. I'm sure it wouldn't be really nice ;) Amber bill 1433 wrote: > > > May I please ask the obvious questions here? > Why doesn't someone simply email this guy and get > the real answers and particulars on this thing? > Also, since moving it is to be the main issue, what is it's over-all > size? He already gives the weight. Come on Gang, the old aquarium math! > L X W X H !!!!!!!!!!!!! only you don't need to divide by the 231! > We already know the gallons! > > In other words----------------will it fit on a semi flat-bed or > tractor-trailer? > Height and width are important, road permits for wide or over-sized > load's, > for bridge and overhead clearance may be necessary! > > Finally for Amber? Don't let these folks discourage you! You can use > this thing on your front porch or as the porch for that matter! Its > just like moving any large structure, as long as your footings or > foundation will take the weight, your good to go! Just think of what > hubby will say when they wheel this thing in! > > Bill > > --- On Fri, 9/25/09, Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@... > <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com>> wrote: > > From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@... > <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com>> > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Free Aquarium (4000 Gallons) > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Date: Friday, September 25, 2009, 10:53 AM > > I kind of took this to mean filtration. I guess that there could have > been > a 4,000G glass/acrylic aquarium slid into the structure but I figured the > concrete was the sides on three sides and then the glass front panel but > maybe they set a 4,000G glass aquarium on top of the concrete stand > and then > built up the sides around it. > > Whatever the case, folks should email this CL ad poster and tell them to > edit the ad if there is no "Free Aquarium"... or maybe send this one > to Jay > Leno for a stupid ad segment. > > "Free Aquarium".... (aquarium not included). LOL > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right > side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On > Behalf Of pam andress > Sent: Friday, September 25, 2009 12:49 AM > To: aquaticlife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:aquaticlife%40yahoogroups.com> > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Free Aquarium (4000 Gallons) > > That add states this: > > Use it as an aquarium (you will need to provide all the parts needed as it > is just the concrete and stone) > > Picture below shows sign with the aquarium attached (aquarium not > included). > > Pam > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > From: GoldLenny@... <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com> > Date: Thu, 24 Sep 2009 22:48:54 -0500 > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Free Aquarium (4000 Gallons) > > > > Why are folks saying it's only a stand and not the aquarium? The photos > clearly show an aquarium structure with a glass front window and large Koi > swimming around inside of it. Yes, it's not an all glass aquarium but > it is > an aquarium... made of concrete, with a glass window and quarry slate > siding. > > It looks like it might fit in the back of my largest pick-up truck... but > then I'll need a flat bed tow truck to tow my flattened pick-up truck. I > wonder how much a 1,000 mile tow would cost? ;-) > > Oh.. one other thing.. is that a leak down the front below the glass > window > and on the sides??? I see that the quarry slate appears to be wet and > algae > covered so maybe only the top half of this structure is the actual > aquarium > and the concrete sealant needs to be redone so it will stop > leaching/leaking > water. > > One last thing... is that rolled barb-wire on the top of this thing > that can > be seen in the top right image, on the left side of the roof area? > Maybe the > neighborhood kids were going swimming??? Heck, maybe Obama will buy this > thing and use it for Gitmo terrorists. Set it up at 1600 Pennsylvania > Avenue > and sell tickets to the tourists to come see the terrorists. ;-) Or maybe > house the latest crooked politician in the thing. Now, I'd pay to see > that.. > especially if my own local crook, William "Dollar Bill" Jefferson, is > first!!! ;-) > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> (Links to any articles referenced > in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under > Labels and > also under Archives by Year, Month) > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On > Behalf Of pam andress > Sent: Thursday, September 24, 2009 8:09 PM > To: aquaticlife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:aquaticlife%40yahoogroups.com> > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Free Aquarium (4000 Gallons) > > Plus it does NOT include the aquarium. > > Pam > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > From: warrenprint@... <mailto:warrenprint%40yahoo.com> > Date: Thu, 24 Sep 2009 17:54:16 -0700 > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Free Aquarium (4000 Gallons) > > Hi \\Steve// > > My favorite part of the ad? No, not the pictures---this line: > > "This unit was a showplace and would make a great backyard focal point" > > Now anyone with any sense of proportion would be able to see that for > some, > this thing could be a back-yard! He quotes capacity at 4,000 gallons. What > do ya figure for outside dimensions? now where did I put that back-hoe > license. Be coming down I-95, I could swing over and pick you up? <g> > > Bill > > --- On Thu, 9/24/09, Steve Szabo <steve@... > <mailto:steve%40familyszabo.com>> wrote: > > From: Steve Szabo <steve@... <mailto:steve%40familyszabo.com>> > Subject: [AquaticLife] Free Aquarium (4000 Gallons) > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Date: Thursday, September 24, 2009, 8:34 PM > > This is for those of you who live near, I think, Orlando, FL, but I am not > sure where Sanford, Florida, really is. > > You do need to be able to move it. > > http://orlando.craigslist.org/zip/1377286878.html > <http://orlando.craigslist.org/zip/1377286878.html> > > \\Steve// > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > ------------------------------------ > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. > ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> > PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to > the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the > SUBJECT > LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- > <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. > > If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of unsubscribing, you > can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the > home page. > > Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:aquaticlife-digest%40yahoogroups.com> to receive the digest, which > includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email > > Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:aquaticlife-nomail%40yahoogroups.com> for the No E-Mail option > where > you will still be able to read messages on the group and post replies. > > Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:aquaticlife-normal%40yahoogroups.com> to receive individual > e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links > > ------------------------------------ > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. > ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> > PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT > important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message > MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- > <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. > > If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of unsubscribing, > you can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My > Membership" on the home page. > > Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:aquaticlife-digest%40yahoogroups.com> to receive the digest, > which includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email > > Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:aquaticlife-nomail%40yahoogroups.com> for the No E-Mail option > where you will still be able to read messages on the group and post > replies. > > Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:aquaticlife-normal%40yahoogroups.com> to receive individual > e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 43583	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 9/25/2009
Subject: Re: Free Aquarium (4000 Gallons)

I don't think you have to worry. Hubby won't be able to get inside your condo to tell you anything anyhow... with that thing on the front porch. ;-) BTW, I did send an email to the CL ad link... no reply yet. ;-) I suggested that they change the ad to Free Backyard Barbecue Pit and Smoker since it seems that's about the only thing that it could be used for. Or better yet, since it's down in Florida already, donate it to the Florida National Guard and they can fly in a big helicopter, pick the thing up and use it on one of the bases... or have it on stand-by to fill a level break. It sure would replace a lot of sandbags. ;-) Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Amber Berglund Sent: Friday, September 25, 2009 10:29 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Free Aquarium (4000 Gallons) Well that's the thing Bill, I don't want to think about what the hubby will say when something like that arrived at our doorstep ;) LOL. I'm sure it wouldn't be really nice ;) Amber bill 1433 wrote: > > > May I please ask the obvious questions here? > Why doesn't someone simply email this guy and get the real answers and > particulars on this thing? > Also, since moving it is to be the main issue, what is it's over-all > size? He already gives the weight. Come on Gang, the old aquarium math! > L X W X H !!!!!!!!!!!!! only you don't need to divide by the 231! > We already know the gallons! > > In other words----------------will it fit on a semi flat-bed or > tractor-trailer? > Height and width are important, road permits for wide or over-sized > load's, for bridge and overhead clearance may be necessary! > > Finally for Amber? Don't let these folks discourage you! You can use > this thing on your front porch or as the porch for that matter! Its > just like moving any large structure, as long as your footings or > foundation will take the weight, your good to go! Just think of what > hubby will say when they wheel this thing in! > > Bill > > --- On Fri, 9/25/09, Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@... > <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com>> wrote: > > From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@... > <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com>> > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Free Aquarium (4000 Gallons) > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Date: Friday, September 25, 2009, 10:53 AM > > I kind of took this to mean filtration. I guess that there could have > been a 4,000G glass/acrylic aquarium slid into the structure but I > figured the concrete was the sides on three sides and then the glass > front panel but maybe they set a 4,000G glass aquarium on top of the > concrete stand and then built up the sides around it. > > Whatever the case, folks should email this CL ad poster and tell them > to edit the ad if there is no "Free Aquarium"... or maybe send this > one to Jay Leno for a stupid ad segment. > > "Free Aquarium".... (aquarium not included). LOL > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> (Links to any articles referenced in > above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels > and also under Archives by Year, Month) > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On Behalf Of pam andress > Sent: Friday, September 25, 2009 12:49 AM > To: aquaticlife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:aquaticlife%40yahoogroups.com> > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Free Aquarium (4000 Gallons) > > That add states this: > > Use it as an aquarium (you will need to provide all the parts needed > as it is just the concrete and stone) > > Picture below shows sign with the aquarium attached (aquarium not > included). > > Pam > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > From: GoldLenny@... <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com> > Date: Thu, 24 Sep 2009 22:48:54 -0500 > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Free Aquarium (4000 Gallons) > > > > Why are folks saying it's only a stand and not the aquarium? The > photos clearly show an aquarium structure with a glass front window > and large Koi swimming around inside of it. Yes, it's not an all glass > aquarium but it is an aquarium... made of concrete, with a glass > window and quarry slate siding. > > It looks like it might fit in the back of my largest pick-up truck... > but then I'll need a flat bed tow truck to tow my flattened pick-up > truck. I wonder how much a 1,000 mile tow would cost? ;-) > > Oh.. one other thing.. is that a leak down the front below the glass > window and on the sides??? I see that the quarry slate appears to be > wet and algae covered so maybe only the top half of this structure is > the actual aquarium and the concrete sealant needs to be redone so it > will stop leaching/leaking water. > > One last thing... is that rolled barb-wire on the top of this thing > that can be seen in the top right image, on the left side of the roof > area? > Maybe the > neighborhood kids were going swimming??? Heck, maybe Obama will buy > this thing and use it for Gitmo terrorists. Set it up at 1600 > Pennsylvania Avenue and sell tickets to the tourists to come see the > terrorists. ;-) Or maybe house the latest crooked politician in the > thing. Now, I'd pay to see that.. > especially if my own local crook, William "Dollar Bill" Jefferson, is > first!!! ;-) > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> (Links to any articles referenced in > above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels > and also under Archives by Year, Month) > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On Behalf Of pam andress > Sent: Thursday, September 24, 2009 8:09 PM > To: aquaticlife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:aquaticlife%40yahoogroups.com> > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Free Aquarium (4000 Gallons) > > Plus it does NOT include the aquarium. > > Pam > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > From: warrenprint@... <mailto:warrenprint%40yahoo.com> > Date: Thu, 24 Sep 2009 17:54:16 -0700 > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Free Aquarium (4000 Gallons) > > Hi \\Steve// > > My favorite part of the ad? No, not the pictures---this line: > > "This unit was a showplace and would make a great backyard focal point" > > Now anyone with any sense of proportion would be able to see that for > some, this thing could be a back-yard! He quotes capacity at 4,000 > gallons. What do ya figure for outside dimensions? now where did I put > that back-hoe license. Be coming down I-95, I could swing over and > pick you up? <g> > > Bill > > --- On Thu, 9/24/09, Steve Szabo <steve@... > <mailto:steve%40familyszabo.com>> wrote: > > From: Steve Szabo <steve@... > <mailto:steve%40familyszabo.com>> > Subject: [AquaticLife] Free Aquarium (4000 Gallons) > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Date: Thursday, September 24, 2009, 8:34 PM > > This is for those of you who live near, I think, Orlando, FL, but I am > not sure where Sanford, Florida, really is. > > You do need to be able to move it. > > http://orlando.craigslist.org/zip/1377286878.html > <http://orlando.craigslist.org/zip/1377286878.html> > > \\Steve//

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 43584	From: bill 1433	Date: 9/25/2009
Subject: Re: Free Aquarium (4000 Gallons)

Ya, maybe your right. Of course, if the front step is in bad shape, this thing could take care of that problem too! Bill --- On Fri, 9/25/09, Amber Berglund <arberglund@...> wrote: > From: Amber Berglund <arberglund@...> > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Free Aquarium (4000 Gallons) > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Date: Friday, September 25, 2009, 11:29 AM > Well that's the thing Bill, I don't > want to think about what the hubby > will say when something like that arrived at our doorstep > ;) LOL. > I'm sure it wouldn't be really nice ;) > > Amber > > bill 1433 wrote: > >  > > > > May I please ask the obvious questions here? > > Why doesn't someone simply email this guy and get > > the real answers and particulars on this thing? > > Also, since moving it is to be the main issue, what is > it's over-all > > size?  He already gives the weight.  Come on > Gang, the old aquarium math! > > L X W X H !!!!!!!!!!!!! only you don't need to divide > by the 231! > > We already know the gallons! > > > > In other words----------------will it fit on a semi > flat-bed or > > tractor-trailer? > > Height and width are important, road permits for wide > or over-sized > > load's, > > for bridge and overhead clearance may be necessary! > >  > > Finally for Amber?  Don't let these folks > discourage you!  You can use > > this thing on your front porch or as the porch for > that matter!  Its > > just like moving any large structure, as long as your > footings or > > foundation will take the weight, your good to go! Just > think of what > > hubby will say when they wheel this thing in! > >  > > Bill > > > > --- On Fri, 9/25/09, Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@... > > > <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com>> wrote: > > > > From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@... > > > <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com>> > > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Free Aquarium (4000 > Gallons) > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > Date: Friday, September 25, 2009, 10:53 AM > > > > I kind of took this to mean filtration.  I guess > that there could have > > been > > a 4,000G glass/acrylic aquarium slid into the > structure but I figured the > > concrete was the sides on three sides and then the > glass front panel but > > maybe they set a 4,000G glass aquarium on top of the > concrete stand > > and then > > built up the sides around it. > > > > Whatever the case, folks should email this CL ad > poster and tell them to > > edit the ad if there is no "Free Aquarium"... or maybe > send this one > > to Jay > > Leno for a stupid ad segment. > > > > "Free Aquarium".... (aquarium not included).  > LOL > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are > listed on the right > > side, alphabetically under Labels and also under > Archives by Year, Month) > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On > > Behalf Of pam andress > > Sent: Friday, September 25, 2009 12:49 AM > > To: aquaticlife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:aquaticlife%40yahoogroups.com> > > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Free Aquarium (4000 > Gallons) > > > > That add states this: > > > > Use it as an aquarium (you will need to provide all > the parts needed as it > > is just the concrete and stone) > > > > Picture below shows sign with the aquarium attached > (aquarium not > > included). > > > > Pam > > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > From: GoldLenny@... > <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com> > > Date: Thu, 24 Sep 2009 22:48:54 -0500 > > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Free Aquarium (4000 > Gallons) > > > >  > > > > Why are folks saying it's only a stand and not the > aquarium? The photos > > clearly show an aquarium structure with a glass front > window and large Koi > > swimming around inside of it. Yes, it's not an all > glass aquarium but > > it is > > an aquarium... made of concrete, with a glass window > and quarry slate > > siding. > > > > It looks like it might fit in the back of my largest > pick-up truck... but > > then I'll need a flat bed tow truck to tow my > flattened pick-up truck. I > > wonder how much a 1,000 mile tow would cost? ;-) > > > > Oh.. one other thing.. is that a leak down the front > below the glass > > window > > and on the sides??? I see that the quarry slate > appears to be wet and > > algae > > covered so maybe only the top half of this structure > is the actual > > aquarium > > and the concrete sealant needs to be redone so it will > stop > > leaching/leaking > > water. > > > > One last thing... is that rolled barb-wire on the top > of this thing > > that can > > be seen in the top right image, on the left side of > the roof area? > > Maybe the > > neighborhood kids were going swimming??? Heck, maybe > Obama will buy this > > thing and use it for Gitmo terrorists. Set it up at > 1600 Pennsylvania > > Avenue > > and sell tickets to the tourists to come see the > terrorists. ;-) Or maybe > > house the latest crooked politician in the thing. Now, > I'd pay to see > > that.. > > especially if my own local crook, William "Dollar > Bill" Jefferson, is > > first!!! ;-) > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> (Links > to any articles referenced > > in above reply are listed on the right side, > alphabetically under > > Labels and > > also under Archives by Year, Month) > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On > > Behalf Of pam andress > > Sent: Thursday, September 24, 2009 8:09 PM > > To: aquaticlife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:aquaticlife%40yahoogroups.com> > > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Free Aquarium (4000 > Gallons) > > > > Plus it does NOT include the aquarium. > > > > Pam > > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > From: warrenprint@... > <mailto:warrenprint%40yahoo.com> > > Date: Thu, 24 Sep 2009 17:54:16 -0700 > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Free Aquarium (4000 > Gallons) > > > > Hi \\Steve// > > > > My favorite part of the ad? No, not the > pictures---this line: > > > > "This unit was a showplace and would make a great > backyard focal point" > > > > Now anyone with any sense of proportion would be able > to see that for > > some, > > this thing could be a back-yard! He quotes capacity at > 4,000 gallons. What > > do ya figure for outside dimensions? now where did I > put that back-hoe > > license. Be coming down I-95, I could swing over and > pick you up? <g> > > > > Bill > > > > --- On Thu, 9/24/09, Steve Szabo <steve@... > > > <mailto:steve%40familyszabo.com>> wrote: > > > > From: Steve Szabo <steve@... > <mailto:steve%40familyszabo.com>> > > Subject: [AquaticLife] Free Aquarium (4000 Gallons) > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > Date: Thursday, September 24, 2009, 8:34 PM > > > > This is for those of you who live near, I think, > Orlando, FL, but I am not > > sure where Sanford, Florida, really is. > > > > You do need to be able to move it. > > > > http://orlando.craigslist.org/zip/1377286878.html > > <http://orlando.craigslist.org/zip/1377286878.html> > > > > \\Steve// > > > >                >           > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > ------------------------------------ > > > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when > replying, Thank You. > > > ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> > ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> > > PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that > is NOT important to > > the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original > message MODIFY the > > SUBJECT > > LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" > <- > > > <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. > , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. > > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. > > > > If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead > of unsubscribing, you > > can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit > My Membership" on the > > home page. > > > > Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com > > > <mailto:aquaticlife-digest%40yahoogroups.com> to > receive the digest, which > > includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email > > > > Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com > > > <mailto:aquaticlife-nomail%40yahoogroups.com> > for the No E-Mail option > > where > > you will still be able to read messages on the group > and post replies. > > > > Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com > > > <mailto:aquaticlife-normal%40yahoogroups.com> to > receive individual > > e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > ------------------------------------ > > > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when > replying, Thank You. > > > ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> > ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> > > PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that > is NOT > > important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of > the original message > > MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was > re: old subject)" <- > > > <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. > , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. > > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. > > > > If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead > of unsubscribing, > > you can change your delivery option by clicking on > "Edit My > > Membership" on the home page. > > > > Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com > > > <mailto:aquaticlife-digest%40yahoogroups.com> to > receive the digest, > > which includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single > email > > > > Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com > > > <mailto:aquaticlife-nomail%40yahoogroups.com> > for the No E-Mail option > > where you will still be able to read messages on the > group and post > > replies. > > > > Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com > > > <mailto:aquaticlife-normal%40yahoogroups.com> to > receive individual > > e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > > ------------------------------------ > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when > replying, Thank You. > ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> > ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> > PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is > NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of > the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new > subject (was re: old subject)" <- > <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. > , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. > > If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of > unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by > clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the home page.  > > Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com > to receive the digest, which includes up to 25 posts at a > time in a single email > > Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com > for the No E-Mail option where you will still be able to > read messages on the group and post replies. > > Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com > to receive individual e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links > > >     mailto:AquaticLife-fullfeatured@yahoogroups.com > > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 43585	From: bill 1433	Date: 9/25/2009
Subject: Re: Free Aquarium (4000 Gallons)

Len, To be truthful, I think the whole ad is just plain worded wrong. I really believe that he wants to sell the WHOLE thing as it is pictured. Filtering system? I strongly suspect a Haywood swimming pool filter with DE as its agent. Bill --- On Fri, 9/25/09, Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@...> wrote: > From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@...> > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Free Aquarium (4000 Gallons) > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Date: Friday, September 25, 2009, 11:45 AM > I don't think you have to > worry.  Hubby won't be able to get inside your > condo to tell you anything anyhow... with that thing on the > front porch. ;-) > > BTW, I did send an email to the CL ad link... no reply yet. > ;-) > > I suggested that they change the ad to Free Backyard > Barbecue Pit and Smoker > since it seems that's about the only thing that it could be > used for.  > > Or better yet, since it's down in Florida already, donate > it to the Florida > National Guard and they can fly in a big helicopter, pick > the thing up and > use it on one of the bases... or have it on stand-by to > fill a level break. > It sure would replace a lot of sandbags. ;-) > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed > on the right > side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives > by Year, Month) > > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] > On > Behalf Of Amber Berglund > Sent: Friday, September 25, 2009 10:29 AM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Free Aquarium (4000 Gallons) > > Well that's the thing Bill, I don't want to think about > what the hubby will > say when something like that arrived at our doorstep ;) > LOL. > I'm sure it wouldn't be really nice ;) > > Amber > > bill 1433 wrote: > >  > > > > May I please ask the obvious questions here? > > Why doesn't someone simply email this guy and get the > real answers and > > particulars on this thing? > > Also, since moving it is to be the main issue, what is > it's over-all > > size?  He already gives the weight.  Come on > Gang, the old aquarium math! > > L X W X H !!!!!!!!!!!!! only you don't need to divide > by the 231! > > We already know the gallons! > > > > In other words----------------will it fit on a semi > flat-bed or > > tractor-trailer? > > Height and width are important, road permits for wide > or over-sized > > load's, for bridge and overhead clearance may be > necessary! > >  > > Finally for Amber?  Don't let these folks > discourage you!  You can use > > this thing on your front porch or as the porch for > that matter!  Its > > just like moving any large structure, as long as your > footings or > > foundation will take the weight, your good to go! Just > think of what > > hubby will say when they wheel this thing in! > >  > > Bill > > > > --- On Fri, 9/25/09, Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@... > > > <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com>> wrote: > > > > From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@... > > > <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com>> > > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Free Aquarium (4000 > Gallons) > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > Date: Friday, September 25, 2009, 10:53 AM > > > > I kind of took this to mean filtration.  I guess > that there could have > > been a 4,000G glass/acrylic aquarium slid into the > structure but I > > figured the concrete was the sides on three sides and > then the glass > > front panel but maybe they set a 4,000G glass aquarium > on top of the > > concrete stand and then built up the sides around it. > > > > Whatever the case, folks should email this CL ad > poster and tell them > > to edit the ad if there is no "Free Aquarium"... or > maybe send this > > one to Jay Leno for a stupid ad segment. > > > > "Free Aquarium".... (aquarium not included).  > LOL > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> (Links > to any articles referenced in > > above reply are listed on the right side, > alphabetically under Labels > > and also under Archives by Year, Month) > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On > Behalf Of pam andress > > Sent: Friday, September 25, 2009 12:49 AM > > To: aquaticlife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:aquaticlife%40yahoogroups.com> > > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Free Aquarium (4000 > Gallons) > > > > That add states this: > > > > Use it as an aquarium (you will need to provide all > the parts needed > > as it is just the concrete and stone) > > > > Picture below shows sign with the aquarium attached > (aquarium not > > included). > > > > Pam > > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > From: GoldLenny@... > <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com> > > Date: Thu, 24 Sep 2009 22:48:54 -0500 > > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Free Aquarium (4000 > Gallons) > > > >  > > > > Why are folks saying it's only a stand and not the > aquarium? The > > photos clearly show an aquarium structure with a glass > front window > > and large Koi swimming around inside of it. Yes, it's > not an all glass > > aquarium but it is an aquarium... made of concrete, > with a glass > > window and quarry slate siding. > > > > It looks like it might fit in the back of my largest > pick-up truck... > > but then I'll need a flat bed tow truck to tow my > flattened pick-up > > truck. I wonder how much a 1,000 mile tow would cost? > ;-) > > > > Oh.. one other thing.. is that a leak down the front > below the glass > > window and on the sides??? I see that the quarry slate > appears to be > > wet and algae covered so maybe only the top half of > this structure is > > the actual aquarium and the concrete sealant needs to > be redone so it > > will stop leaching/leaking water. > > > > One last thing... is that rolled barb-wire on the top > of this thing > > that can be seen in the top right image, on the left > side of the roof > > area? > > Maybe the > > neighborhood kids were going swimming??? Heck, maybe > Obama will buy > > this thing and use it for Gitmo terrorists. Set it up > at 1600 > > Pennsylvania Avenue and sell tickets to the tourists > to come see the > > terrorists. ;-) Or maybe house the latest crooked > politician in the > > thing. Now, I'd pay to see that.. > > especially if my own local crook, William "Dollar > Bill" Jefferson, is > > first!!! ;-) > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> (Links > to any articles referenced in > > above reply are listed on the right side, > alphabetically under Labels > > and also under Archives by Year, Month) > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On > Behalf Of pam andress > > Sent: Thursday, September 24, 2009 8:09 PM > > To: aquaticlife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:aquaticlife%40yahoogroups.com> > > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Free Aquarium (4000 > Gallons) > > > > Plus it does NOT include the aquarium. > > > > Pam > > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > From: warrenprint@... > <mailto:warrenprint%40yahoo.com> > > Date: Thu, 24 Sep 2009 17:54:16 -0700 > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Free Aquarium (4000 > Gallons) > > > > Hi \\Steve// > > > > My favorite part of the ad? No, not the > pictures---this line: > > > > "This unit was a showplace and would make a great > backyard focal point" > > > > Now anyone with any sense of proportion would be able > to see that for > > some, this thing could be a back-yard! He quotes > capacity at 4,000 > > gallons. What do ya figure for outside dimensions? now > where did I put > > that back-hoe license. Be coming down I-95, I could > swing over and > > pick you up? <g> > > > > Bill > > > > --- On Thu, 9/24/09, Steve Szabo <steve@... > > > <mailto:steve%40familyszabo.com>> wrote: > > > > From: Steve Szabo <steve@... > > > <mailto:steve%40familyszabo.com>> > > Subject: [AquaticLife] Free Aquarium (4000 Gallons) > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > Date: Thursday, September 24, 2009, 8:34 PM > > > > This is for those of you who live near, I think, > Orlando, FL, but I am > > not sure where Sanford, Florida, really is. > > > > You do need to be able to move it. > > > > http://orlando.craigslist.org/zip/1377286878.html > > <http://orlando.craigslist.org/zip/1377286878.html> > > > > \\Steve// > > > > ------------------------------------ > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when > replying, Thank You. > ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> > ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> > PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is > NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of > the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new > subject (was re: old subject)" <- > <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. > , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. > > If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of > unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by > clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the home page.  > > Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com > to receive the digest, which includes up to 25 posts at a > time in a single email > > Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com > for the No E-Mail option where you will still be able to > read messages on the group and post replies. > > Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com > to receive individual e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links > > >     mailto:AquaticLife-fullfeatured@yahoogroups.com > > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 43586	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 9/25/2009
Subject: Re: Free Aquarium (4000 Gallons)

A DIY trickle filter would also work, using a 50G plastic drum and a proper sized external pump.... lots cheaper than a store bought swimming pool filter system. All this is really moot since I doubt that anyone would take up the offer anyhow. It seems like it would be cheaper/easier to build a new structure on site than to move that one. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of bill 1433 Sent: Friday, September 25, 2009 10:52 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Free Aquarium (4000 Gallons) Len, To be truthful, I think the whole ad is just plain worded wrong. I really believe that he wants to sell the WHOLE thing as it is pictured. Filtering system? I strongly suspect a Haywood swimming pool filter with DE as its agent. Bill --- On Fri, 9/25/09, Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@...> wrote: > From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@...> > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Free Aquarium (4000 Gallons) > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Date: Friday, September 25, 2009, 11:45 AM I don't think you have to > worry.  Hubby won't be able to get inside your condo to tell you > anything anyhow... with that thing on the front porch. ;-) > > BTW, I did send an email to the CL ad link... no reply yet. > ;-) > > I suggested that they change the ad to Free Backyard Barbecue Pit and > Smoker since it seems that's about the only thing that it could be > used for. > > Or better yet, since it's down in Florida already, donate it to the > Florida National Guard and they can fly in a big helicopter, pick the > thing up and use it on one of the bases... or have it on stand-by to > fill a level break. > It sure would replace a lot of sandbags. ;-) > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles > referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically > under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) > > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] > On > Behalf Of Amber Berglund > Sent: Friday, September 25, 2009 10:29 AM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Free Aquarium (4000 Gallons) > > Well that's the thing Bill, I don't want to think about > what the hubby will > say when something like that arrived at our doorstep ;) > LOL. > I'm sure it wouldn't be really nice ;) > > Amber > > bill 1433 wrote: > >  > > > > May I please ask the obvious questions here? > > Why doesn't someone simply email this guy and get the > real answers and > > particulars on this thing? > > Also, since moving it is to be the main issue, what is > it's over-all > > size?  He already gives the weight.  Come on > Gang, the old aquarium math! > > L X W X H !!!!!!!!!!!!! only you don't need to divide > by the 231! > > We already know the gallons! > > > > In other words----------------will it fit on a semi > flat-bed or > > tractor-trailer? > > Height and width are important, road permits for wide > or over-sized > > load's, for bridge and overhead clearance may be > necessary! > >  > > Finally for Amber?  Don't let these folks > discourage you!  You can use > > this thing on your front porch or as the porch for > that matter!  Its > > just like moving any large structure, as long as your > footings or > > foundation will take the weight, your good to go! Just > think of what > > hubby will say when they wheel this thing in! > >  > > Bill > > > > --- On Fri, 9/25/09, Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@... > > > <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com>> wrote: > > > > From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@... > > > <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com>> > > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Free Aquarium (4000 > Gallons) > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > Date: Friday, September 25, 2009, 10:53 AM > > > > I kind of took this to mean filtration.  I guess > that there could have > > been a 4,000G glass/acrylic aquarium slid into the > structure but I > > figured the concrete was the sides on three sides and > then the glass > > front panel but maybe they set a 4,000G glass aquarium > on top of the > > concrete stand and then built up the sides around it. > > > > Whatever the case, folks should email this CL ad > poster and tell them > > to edit the ad if there is no "Free Aquarium"... or > maybe send this > > one to Jay Leno for a stupid ad segment. > > > > "Free Aquarium".... (aquarium not included).  > LOL > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> (Links > to any articles referenced in > > above reply are listed on the right side, > alphabetically under Labels > > and also under Archives by Year, Month) > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On > Behalf Of pam andress > > Sent: Friday, September 25, 2009 12:49 AM > > To: aquaticlife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:aquaticlife%40yahoogroups.com> > > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Free Aquarium (4000 > Gallons) > > > > That add states this: > > > > Use it as an aquarium (you will need to provide all > the parts needed > > as it is just the concrete and stone) > > > > Picture below shows sign with the aquarium attached > (aquarium not > > included). > > > > Pam SNIPPED > > > > --- On Thu, 9/24/09, Steve Szabo <steve@... > > > <mailto:steve%40familyszabo.com>> wrote: > > > > From: Steve Szabo <steve@... > > > <mailto:steve%40familyszabo.com>> > > Subject: [AquaticLife] Free Aquarium (4000 Gallons) > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > Date: Thursday, September 24, 2009, 8:34 PM > > > > This is for those of you who live near, I think, > Orlando, FL, but I am > > not sure where Sanford, Florida, really is. > > > > You do need to be able to move it. > > > > http://orlando.craigslist.org/zip/1377286878.html > > <http://orlando.craigslist.org/zip/1377286878.html> > > > > \\Steve//

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 43587	From: Heather	Date: 9/25/2009
Subject: Re: Free Aquarium (4000 Gallons)

I did email the one giving it away and am still waiting on a response. Huge Hugs~Heather http://www.youravon.com/hbroschayt --- On Fri, 9/25/09, bill 1433 <warrenprint@...> wrote: From: bill 1433 <warrenprint@...> Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Free Aquarium (4000 Gallons) To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Date: Friday, September 25, 2009, 10:19 AM   May I please ask the obvious questions here? Why doesn't someone simply email this guy and get the real answers and particulars on this thing? Also, since moving it is to be the main issue, what is it's over-all size?  He already gives the weight.  Come on Gang, the old aquarium math! L X W X H !!!!!!!!!!!! ! only you don't need to divide by the 231! We already know the gallons! In other words------- --------- will it fit on a semi flat-bed or tractor-trailer? Height and width are important, road permits for wide or over-sized load's, for bridge and overhead clearance may be necessary!   Finally for Amber?  Don't let these folks discourage you!  You can use this thing on your front porch or as the porch for that matter!  Its just like moving any large structure, as long as your footings or foundation will take the weight, your good to go! Just think of what hubby will say when they wheel this thing in!   Bill --- On Fri, 9/25/09, Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@gmail. com> wrote: From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@gmail. com> Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Free Aquarium (4000 Gallons) To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com Date: Friday, September 25, 2009, 10:53 AM I kind of took this to mean filtration.  I guess that there could have been a 4,000G glass/acrylic aquarium slid into the structure but I figured the concrete was the sides on three sides and then the glass front panel but maybe they set a 4,000G glass aquarium on top of the concrete stand and then built up the sides around it.  Whatever the case, folks should email this CL ad poster and tell them to edit the ad if there is no "Free Aquarium"... or maybe send this one to Jay Leno for a stupid ad segment. "Free Aquarium"... . (aquarium not included).  LOL Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com [mailto:AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com] On Behalf Of pam andress Sent: Friday, September 25, 2009 12:49 AM To: aquaticlife@ yahoogroups. com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Free Aquarium (4000 Gallons) That add states this: Use it as an aquarium (you will need to provide all the parts needed as it is just the concrete and stone) Picture below shows sign with the aquarium attached (aquarium not included). Pam To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com From: GoldLenny@gmail. com Date: Thu, 24 Sep 2009 22:48:54 -0500 Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Free Aquarium (4000 Gallons)   Why are folks saying it's only a stand and not the aquarium? The photos clearly show an aquarium structure with a glass front window and large Koi swimming around inside of it. Yes, it's not an all glass aquarium but it is an aquarium... made of concrete, with a glass window and quarry slate siding. It looks like it might fit in the back of my largest pick-up truck... but then I'll need a flat bed tow truck to tow my flattened pick-up truck. I wonder how much a 1,000 mile tow would cost? ;-) Oh.. one other thing.. is that a leak down the front below the glass window and on the sides??? I see that the quarry slate appears to be wet and algae covered so maybe only the top half of this structure is the actual aquarium and the concrete sealant needs to be redone so it will stop leaching/leaking water. One last thing... is that rolled barb-wire on the top of this thing that can be seen in the top right image, on the left side of the roof area? Maybe the neighborhood kids were going swimming??? Heck, maybe Obama will buy this thing and use it for Gitmo terrorists. Set it up at 1600 Pennsylvania Avenue and sell tickets to the tourists to come see the terrorists. ;-) Or maybe house the latest crooked politician in the thing. Now, I'd pay to see that.. especially if my own local crook, William "Dollar Bill" Jefferson, is first!!! ;-) Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com [mailto:AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com] On Behalf Of pam andress Sent: Thursday, September 24, 2009 8:09 PM To: aquaticlife@ yahoogroups. com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Free Aquarium (4000 Gallons) Plus it does NOT include the aquarium. Pam To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com From: warrenprint@ yahoo.com Date: Thu, 24 Sep 2009 17:54:16 -0700 Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Free Aquarium (4000 Gallons) Hi \\Steve// My favorite part of the ad? No, not the pictures---this line: "This unit was a showplace and would make a great backyard focal point" Now anyone with any sense of proportion would be able to see that for some, this thing could be a back-yard! He quotes capacity at 4,000 gallons. What do ya figure for outside dimensions? now where did I put that back-hoe license. Be coming down I-95, I could swing over and pick you up? <g> Bill --- On Thu, 9/24/09, Steve Szabo <steve@familyszabo. com> wrote: From: Steve Szabo <steve@familyszabo. com> Subject: [AquaticLife] Free Aquarium (4000 Gallons) To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com Date: Thursday, September 24, 2009, 8:34 PM This is for those of you who live near, I think, Orlando, FL, but I am not sure where Sanford, Florida, really is. You do need to be able to move it. http://orlando. craigslist. org/zip/13772868 78.html \\Steve//                           [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] ------------ --------- --------- ------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the home page.  Or e-mail aquaticlife- digest@yahoogrou ps.com to receive the digest, which includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email Or email aquaticlife- nomail@yahoogrou ps.com for the No E-Mail option where you will still be able to read messages on the group and post replies. Or email aquaticlife- normal@yahoogrou ps.com to receive individual e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links ------------ --------- --------- ------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the home page.  Or e-mail aquaticlife- digest@yahoogrou ps.com to receive the digest, which includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email Or email aquaticlife- nomail@yahoogrou ps.com for the No E-Mail option where you will still be able to read messages on the group and post replies. Or email aquaticlife- normal@yahoogrou ps.com to receive individual e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 43588	From: bill 1433	Date: 9/25/2009
Subject: Re: Free Aquarium (4000 Gallons)

Ya, but not near the fun! Bill --- On Fri, 9/25/09, Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@...> wrote: > From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@...> > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Free Aquarium (4000 Gallons) > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Date: Friday, September 25, 2009, 12:13 PM > A DIY trickle filter would also work, > using a 50G plastic drum and a proper > sized external pump.... lots cheaper than a store bought > swimming pool > filter system.  All this is really moot since I doubt > that anyone would take > up the offer anyhow.  It seems like it would be > cheaper/easier to build a > new structure on site than to move that one. > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed > on the right > side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives > by Year, Month) > > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] > On > Behalf Of bill 1433 > Sent: Friday, September 25, 2009 10:52 AM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Free Aquarium (4000 Gallons) > > Len, > > To be truthful, I think the whole ad is just plain worded > wrong. > I really believe that he wants to sell the WHOLE thing as > it is pictured. > Filtering system?  I strongly suspect a Haywood > swimming pool filter with DE > as its agent. > > Bill > > --- On Fri, 9/25/09, Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@...> > wrote: > > > From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@...> > > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Free Aquarium (4000 > Gallons) > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > Date: Friday, September 25, 2009, 11:45 AM I don't > think you have to > > worry.  Hubby won't be able to get inside your condo > to tell you > > anything anyhow... with that thing on the front porch. > ;-) > > > > BTW, I did send an email to the CL ad link... no reply > yet. > > ;-) > > > > I suggested that they change the ad to Free Backyard > Barbecue Pit and > > Smoker since it seems that's about the only thing that > it could be > > used for. > > > > Or better yet, since it's down in Florida already, > donate it to the > > Florida National Guard and they can fly in a big > helicopter, pick the > > thing up and use it on one of the bases... or have it > on stand-by to > > fill a level break. > > It sure would replace a lot of sandbags. ;-) > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to > any articles > > referenced in above reply are listed on the right > side, alphabetically > > under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) > >  > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] > > On > > Behalf Of Amber Berglund > > Sent: Friday, September 25, 2009 10:29 AM > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Free Aquarium (4000 > Gallons) > > > > Well that's the thing Bill, I don't want to think > about > > what the hubby will > > say when something like that arrived at our doorstep > ;) > > LOL. > > I'm sure it wouldn't be really nice ;) > > > > Amber > > > > bill 1433 wrote: > > >  > > > > > > May I please ask the obvious questions here? > > > Why doesn't someone simply email this guy and get > the > > real answers and > > > particulars on this thing? > > > Also, since moving it is to be the main issue, > what is > > it's over-all > > > size?  He already gives the weight.  Come on > > Gang, the old aquarium math! > > > L X W X H !!!!!!!!!!!!! only you don't need to > divide > > by the 231! > > > We already know the gallons! > > > > > > In other words----------------will it fit on a > semi > > flat-bed or > > > tractor-trailer? > > > Height and width are important, road permits for > wide > > or over-sized > > > load's, for bridge and overhead clearance may be > > necessary! > > >  > > > Finally for Amber?  Don't let these folks > > discourage you!  You can use > > > this thing on your front porch or as the porch > for > > that matter!  Its > > > just like moving any large structure, as long as > your > > footings or > > > foundation will take the weight, your good to go! > Just > > think of what > > > hubby will say when they wheel this thing in! > > >  > > > Bill > > > > > > --- On Fri, 9/25/09, Lenny V. aka GoldLenny > <GoldLenny@... > > > > > <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com>> wrote: > > > > > > From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@... > > > > > <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com>> > > > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Free Aquarium (4000 > > Gallons) > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > Date: Friday, September 25, 2009, 10:53 AM > > > > > > I kind of took this to mean filtration.  I > guess > > that there could have > > > been a 4,000G glass/acrylic aquarium slid into > the > > structure but I > > > figured the concrete was the sides on three sides > and > > then the glass > > > front panel but maybe they set a 4,000G glass > aquarium > > on top of the > > > concrete stand and then built up the sides around > it. > > > > > > Whatever the case, folks should email this CL ad > > poster and tell them > > > to edit the ad if there is no "Free Aquarium"... > or > > maybe send this > > > one to Jay Leno for a stupid ad segment. > > > > > > "Free Aquarium".... (aquarium not included).  > > LOL > > > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> (Links > > to any articles referenced in > > > above reply are listed on the right side, > > alphabetically under Labels > > > and also under Archives by Year, Month) > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On > > Behalf Of pam andress > > > Sent: Friday, September 25, 2009 12:49 AM > > > To: aquaticlife@yahoogroups.com > > <mailto:aquaticlife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Free Aquarium (4000 > > Gallons) > > > > > > That add states this: > > > > > > Use it as an aquarium (you will need to provide > all > > the parts needed > > > as it is just the concrete and stone) > > > > > > Picture below shows sign with the aquarium > attached > > (aquarium not > > > included). > > > > > > Pam > > SNIPPED > > > > > > > > --- On Thu, 9/24/09, Steve Szabo <steve@... > > > > > <mailto:steve%40familyszabo.com>> > wrote: > > > > > > From: Steve Szabo <steve@... > > > > > <mailto:steve%40familyszabo.com>> > > > Subject: [AquaticLife] Free Aquarium (4000 > Gallons) > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > Date: Thursday, September 24, 2009, 8:34 PM > > > > > > This is for those of you who live near, I think, > > Orlando, FL, but I am > > > not sure where Sanford, Florida, really is. > > > > > > You do need to be able to move it. > > > > > > http://orlando.craigslist.org/zip/1377286878.html > > > <http://orlando.craigslist.org/zip/1377286878.html> > > > > > > \\Steve// > > > > ------------------------------------ > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when > replying, Thank You. > ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> > ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> > PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is > NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of > the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new > subject (was re: old subject)" <- > <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. > , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. > > If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of > unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by > clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the home page.  > > Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com > to receive the digest, which includes up to 25 posts at a > time in a single email > > Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com > for the No E-Mail option where you will still be able to > read messages on the group and post replies. > > Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com > to receive individual e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links > > >     mailto:AquaticLife-fullfeatured@yahoogroups.com > > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 43589	From: gailsugarpants	Date: 9/25/2009
Subject: Rocks for your aquarium

So, live near the beautiful Rocky Mountains and I was considering going on a hike with the kids and looking for some cool rocks for the aquarium. It's Freshwater. Any suggestions on what to look for and maybe what to avoid? I think we might be able to find some kinds of slate, granite and some limestone. Any suggestions or cautions? thanks, Gail

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 43590	From: jett07002	Date: 9/25/2009
Subject: Re: Free Aquarium (4000 Gallons)

WOW!! I really want this thing!!!!!??????!!!! My trucks, cranes and police escort are on their way now.....LOL joe t

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 43591	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 9/25/2009
Subject: Re: Rocks for your aquarium

Whatever rocks you collect make sure you bring them home and wash them off really well. I used my dishwasher to do so, without any jet dry or similar product, and no soap, just ran it on sanitary mode (extra hot). You will not want limestone as it will affect your pH, slate is a good type to look for though, or quartz. You can test at home to see if it will affect your tank pH by either leaving the rock sitting in a bucket of tank water/tap water with an airstone going and see if the pH changes, or you can also scrape the top of the rock a little bit to get to the 2nd layer of rock and pour a little vinegar onto the rock, if it starts to bubble/sizzle then it will affect your tank pH, you want NO reaction to the vinegar, that means the rock should be fairly safe. Hope that helps. Amber gailsugarpants wrote: > > > So, live near the beautiful Rocky Mountains and I was considering > going on a hike with the kids and looking for some cool rocks for the > aquarium. It's Freshwater. Any suggestions on what to look for and > maybe what to avoid? > I think we might be able to find some kinds of slate, granite and some > limestone. > Any suggestions or cautions? > > thanks, > Gail > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 43592	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 9/25/2009
Subject: Re: Rocks for your aquarium

Remind of us your tap/source water parameters and tank parameters and what kind of fish. I'm thinking you have goldfish but I quit trying to remember everybody's tanks a long time ago. Here's a few articles about rocks and aquariums. Some of them do give slightly conflicting opinions about some of the rock types but this usually depends on water parameters. http://www.skepticalaquarist.com/docs/aquascaping/rocks.shtml http://www.uniquaria.com/index.php/articles/6-misc/21-aquarium-safe-rocks http://www.thekrib.com/TankHardware/rocks.html Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of gailsugarpants Sent: Friday, September 25, 2009 3:19 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Rocks for your aquarium So, live near the beautiful Rocky Mountains and I was considering going on a hike with the kids and looking for some cool rocks for the aquarium. It's Freshwater. Any suggestions on what to look for and maybe what to avoid? I think we might be able to find some kinds of slate, granite and some limestone. Any suggestions or cautions? thanks, Gail

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 43593	From: harry perry	Date: 9/25/2009
Subject: Re: Rocks for your aquarium/Lenny

Have any links on photographing your aquarium?. Thanks Harry --- On Fri, 9/25/09, Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@...> wrote: From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@...> Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Rocks for your aquarium To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Date: Friday, September 25, 2009, 5:51 PM   Remind of us your tap/source water parameters and tank parameters and what kind of fish. I'm thinking you have goldfish but I quit trying to remember everybody's tanks a long time ago. Here's a few articles about rocks and aquariums. Some of them do give slightly conflicting opinions about some of the rock types but this usually depends on water parameters. http://www.skeptica laquarist. com/docs/ aquascaping/ rocks.shtml http://www.uniquari a.com/index. php/articles/ 6-misc/21- aquarium- safe-rocks http://www.thekrib. com/TankHardware /rocks.html Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com [mailto:AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com] On Behalf Of gailsugarpants Sent: Friday, September 25, 2009 3:19 PM To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com Subject: [AquaticLife] Rocks for your aquarium So, live near the beautiful Rocky Mountains and I was considering going on a hike with the kids and looking for some cool rocks for the aquarium. It's Freshwater. Any suggestions on what to look for and maybe what to avoid? I think we might be able to find some kinds of slate, granite and some limestone. Any suggestions or cautions? thanks, Gail [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 43594	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 9/25/2009
Subject: Re: Rocks for your aquarium/Lenny-Photography links

Yep. And a couple of them are in the group's archives, one of them, written by \\Steve// a long time ago... well a long time ago in recent history, like this decade, not in all of \\Steve's// *history*. ;-) http://pets.groups.yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife/message/13061 And a follow-up "article" which was one of \\Steve's// replies to a thread earlier this year. http://pets.groups.yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife/message/36625 And here's a couple of others that I have in my favorites folder. http://www.cichlid-forum.com/articles/photography_list.php http://www.wetwebmedia.com/ca/volume_2/cav2i2/aquarium_photography/photograp hy.htm Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of harry perry Sent: Friday, September 25, 2009 5:11 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Rocks for your aquarium/Lenny Have any links on photographing your aquarium?. Thanks Harry --- On Fri, 9/25/09, Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@...> wrote: From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@...> Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Rocks for your aquarium To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Date: Friday, September 25, 2009, 5:51 PM Remind of us your tap/source water parameters and tank parameters and what kind of fish. I'm thinking you have goldfish but I quit trying to remember everybody's tanks a long time ago. Here's a few articles about rocks and aquariums. Some of them do give slightly conflicting opinions about some of the rock types but this usually depends on water parameters. http://www.skepticalaquarist.com/docs/aquascaping/rocks.shtml http://www.uniquaria.com/index.php/articles/6-misc/21-aquarium-safe-rocks http://www.thekrib.com/TankHardware/rocks.html Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com [mailto:AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com] On Behalf Of gailsugarpants Sent: Friday, September 25, 2009 3:19 PM To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com Subject: [AquaticLife] Rocks for your aquarium So, live near the beautiful Rocky Mountains and I was considering going on a hike with the kids and looking for some cool rocks for the aquarium. It's Freshwater. Any suggestions on what to look for and maybe what to avoid? I think we might be able to find some kinds of slate, granite and some limestone. Any suggestions or cautions? thanks, Gail

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 43595	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 9/25/2009
Subject: Re: Free Aquarium (4000 Gallons)

Amber, Just wait to see what he says when you tell him you want it upstairs! <G> \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Amber Berglund Sent: Friday, September 25, 2009 11:29 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Free Aquarium (4000 Gallons) Well that's the thing Bill, I don't want to think about what the hubby will say when something like that arrived at our doorstep ;) LOL. I'm sure it wouldn't be really nice ;) Amber bill 1433 wrote: > > > May I please ask the obvious questions here? > Why doesn't someone simply email this guy and get > the real answers and particulars on this thing? > Also, since moving it is to be the main issue, what is it's over-all > size? He already gives the weight. Come on Gang, the old aquarium math! > L X W X H !!!!!!!!!!!!! only you don't need to divide by the 231! > We already know the gallons! > > In other words----------------will it fit on a semi flat-bed or > tractor-trailer? > Height and width are important, road permits for wide or over-sized > load's, > for bridge and overhead clearance may be necessary! > > Finally for Amber? Don't let these folks discourage you! You can use > this thing on your front porch or as the porch for that matter! Its > just like moving any large structure, as long as your footings or > foundation will take the weight, your good to go! Just think of what > hubby will say when they wheel this thing in! > > Bill > > --- On Fri, 9/25/09, Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@... > <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com>> wrote: > > From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@... > <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com>> > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Free Aquarium (4000 Gallons) > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Date: Friday, September 25, 2009, 10:53 AM > > I kind of took this to mean filtration. I guess that there could have > been > a 4,000G glass/acrylic aquarium slid into the structure but I figured the > concrete was the sides on three sides and then the glass front panel but > maybe they set a 4,000G glass aquarium on top of the concrete stand > and then > built up the sides around it. > > Whatever the case, folks should email this CL ad poster and tell them to > edit the ad if there is no "Free Aquarium"... or maybe send this one > to Jay > Leno for a stupid ad segment. > > "Free Aquarium".... (aquarium not included). LOL > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right > side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On > Behalf Of pam andress > Sent: Friday, September 25, 2009 12:49 AM > To: aquaticlife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:aquaticlife%40yahoogroups.com> > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Free Aquarium (4000 Gallons) > > That add states this: > > Use it as an aquarium (you will need to provide all the parts needed as it > is just the concrete and stone) > > Picture below shows sign with the aquarium attached (aquarium not > included). > > Pam > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > From: GoldLenny@... <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com> > Date: Thu, 24 Sep 2009 22:48:54 -0500 > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Free Aquarium (4000 Gallons) > > > > Why are folks saying it's only a stand and not the aquarium? The photos > clearly show an aquarium structure with a glass front window and large Koi > swimming around inside of it. Yes, it's not an all glass aquarium but > it is > an aquarium... made of concrete, with a glass window and quarry slate > siding. > > It looks like it might fit in the back of my largest pick-up truck... but > then I'll need a flat bed tow truck to tow my flattened pick-up truck. I > wonder how much a 1,000 mile tow would cost? ;-) > > Oh.. one other thing.. is that a leak down the front below the glass > window > and on the sides??? I see that the quarry slate appears to be wet and > algae > covered so maybe only the top half of this structure is the actual > aquarium > and the concrete sealant needs to be redone so it will stop > leaching/leaking > water. > > One last thing... is that rolled barb-wire on the top of this thing > that can > be seen in the top right image, on the left side of the roof area? > Maybe the > neighborhood kids were going swimming??? Heck, maybe Obama will buy this > thing and use it for Gitmo terrorists. Set it up at 1600 Pennsylvania > Avenue > and sell tickets to the tourists to come see the terrorists. ;-) Or maybe > house the latest crooked politician in the thing. Now, I'd pay to see > that.. > especially if my own local crook, William "Dollar Bill" Jefferson, is > first!!! ;-) > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> (Links to any articles referenced > in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under > Labels and > also under Archives by Year, Month) > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On > Behalf Of pam andress > Sent: Thursday, September 24, 2009 8:09 PM > To: aquaticlife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:aquaticlife%40yahoogroups.com> > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Free Aquarium (4000 Gallons) > > Plus it does NOT include the aquarium. > > Pam > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > From: warrenprint@... <mailto:warrenprint%40yahoo.com> > Date: Thu, 24 Sep 2009 17:54:16 -0700 > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Free Aquarium (4000 Gallons) > > Hi \\Steve// > > My favorite part of the ad? No, not the pictures---this line: > > "This unit was a showplace and would make a great backyard focal point" > > Now anyone with any sense of proportion would be able to see that for > some, > this thing could be a back-yard! He quotes capacity at 4,000 gallons. What > do ya figure for outside dimensions? now where did I put that back-hoe > license. Be coming down I-95, I could swing over and pick you up? <g> > > Bill > > --- On Thu, 9/24/09, Steve Szabo <steve@... > <mailto:steve%40familyszabo.com>> wrote: > > From: Steve Szabo <steve@... <mailto:steve%40familyszabo.com>> > Subject: [AquaticLife] Free Aquarium (4000 Gallons) > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Date: Thursday, September 24, 2009, 8:34 PM > > This is for those of you who live near, I think, Orlando, FL, but I am not > sure where Sanford, Florida, really is. > > You do need to be able to move it. > > http://orlando.craigslist.org/zip/1377286878.html > <http://orlando.craigslist.org/zip/1377286878.html> > > \\Steve// > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 43596	From: kuradi8	Date: 9/25/2009
Subject: Re: Rocks for your aquarium

Granite and slate should be neutral but limestone will raise the pH significantly. If you're not sure, test the rocks in a bucket of water. And yes, scrub them well. No soap but lots of water and elbow grease. ~Kai --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "gailsugarpants" <clandestine662002@...> wrote: > > So, live near the beautiful Rocky Mountains and I was considering going on a hike with the kids and looking for some cool rocks for the aquarium. It's Freshwater. Any suggestions on what to look for and maybe what to avoid? > I think we might be able to find some kinds of slate, granite and some limestone. > Any suggestions or cautions? > > thanks, > Gail >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 43597	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 9/25/2009
Subject: Re: Free Aquarium (4000 Gallons)

Amber, Did you check out the overnight prices with FEDEX? You do get a discount... right? Maybe you could call NASA and they could piggy-back it on that 767 that just flew the Space Shuttle from Cali to Florida. It has to head back to Cali anyhow so they might not mind making a little detour up your way. I just checked that ad again... still no changes to it. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Steve Szabo Sent: Friday, September 25, 2009 6:22 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Free Aquarium (4000 Gallons) Amber, Just wait to see what he says when you tell him you want it upstairs! <G> \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Amber Berglund Sent: Friday, September 25, 2009 11:29 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Free Aquarium (4000 Gallons) Well that's the thing Bill, I don't want to think about what the hubby will say when something like that arrived at our doorstep ;) LOL. I'm sure it wouldn't be really nice ;) Amber bill 1433 wrote: > > > May I please ask the obvious questions here? > Why doesn't someone simply email this guy and get the real answers and > particulars on this thing? > Also, since moving it is to be the main issue, what is it's over-all > size? He already gives the weight. Come on Gang, the old aquarium math! > L X W X H !!!!!!!!!!!!! only you don't need to divide by the 231! > We already know the gallons! > > In other words----------------will it fit on a semi flat-bed or > tractor-trailer? > Height and width are important, road permits for wide or over-sized > load's, for bridge and overhead clearance may be necessary! > > Finally for Amber? Don't let these folks discourage you! You can use > this thing on your front porch or as the porch for that matter! Its > just like moving any large structure, as long as your footings or > foundation will take the weight, your good to go! Just think of what > hubby will say when they wheel this thing in! > > Bill > > --- On Fri, 9/25/09, Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@... > <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com>> wrote: > > From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@... > <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com>> > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Free Aquarium (4000 Gallons) > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Date: Friday, September 25, 2009, 10:53 AM > > I kind of took this to mean filtration. I guess that there could have > been > a 4,000G glass/acrylic aquarium slid into the structure but I figured the > concrete was the sides on three sides and then the glass front panel but > maybe they set a 4,000G glass aquarium on top of the concrete stand > and then built up the sides around it. > > Whatever the case, folks should email this CL ad poster and tell them to > edit the ad if there is no "Free Aquarium"... or maybe send this one > to Jay Leno for a stupid ad segment. > > "Free Aquarium".... (aquarium not included). LOL > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right > side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On Behalf Of pam andress > Sent: Friday, September 25, 2009 12:49 AM > To: aquaticlife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:aquaticlife%40yahoogroups.com> > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Free Aquarium (4000 Gallons) > > That add states this: > > Use it as an aquarium (you will need to provide all the parts needed as it > is just the concrete and stone) > > Picture below shows sign with the aquarium attached (aquarium not > included). > > Pam > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > From: GoldLenny@... <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com> > Date: Thu, 24 Sep 2009 22:48:54 -0500 > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Free Aquarium (4000 Gallons) > > > > Why are folks saying it's only a stand and not the aquarium? The photos > clearly show an aquarium structure with a glass front window and large Koi > swimming around inside of it. Yes, it's not an all glass aquarium but > it is an aquarium... made of concrete, with a glass window and quarry > slate siding. > > It looks like it might fit in the back of my largest pick-up truck... but > then I'll need a flat bed tow truck to tow my flattened pick-up truck. I > wonder how much a 1,000 mile tow would cost? ;-) > > Oh.. one other thing.. is that a leak down the front below the glass > window and on the sides??? I see that the quarry slate appears to be > wet and algae covered so maybe only the top half of this structure is > the actual aquarium and the concrete sealant needs to be redone so it > will stop leaching/leaking water. > > One last thing... is that rolled barb-wire on the top of this thing > that can be seen in the top right image, on the left side of the roof > area? > Maybe the > neighborhood kids were going swimming??? Heck, maybe Obama will buy this > thing and use it for Gitmo terrorists. Set it up at 1600 Pennsylvania > Avenue and sell tickets to the tourists to come see the terrorists. > ;-) Or maybe > house the latest crooked politician in the thing. Now, I'd pay to see > that.. > especially if my own local crook, William "Dollar Bill" Jefferson, is > first!!! ;-) > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> (Links to any articles referenced in > above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels > and also under Archives by Year, Month) > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On Behalf Of pam andress > Sent: Thursday, September 24, 2009 8:09 PM > To: aquaticlife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:aquaticlife%40yahoogroups.com> > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Free Aquarium (4000 Gallons) > > Plus it does NOT include the aquarium. > > Pam > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > From: warrenprint@... <mailto:warrenprint%40yahoo.com> > Date: Thu, 24 Sep 2009 17:54:16 -0700 > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Free Aquarium (4000 Gallons) > > Hi \\Steve// > > My favorite part of the ad? No, not the pictures---this line: > > "This unit was a showplace and would make a great backyard focal point" > > Now anyone with any sense of proportion would be able to see that for > some, this thing could be a back-yard! He quotes capacity at 4,000 > gallons. What > do ya figure for outside dimensions? now where did I put that back-hoe > license. Be coming down I-95, I could swing over and pick you up? <g> > > Bill > > --- On Thu, 9/24/09, Steve Szabo <steve@... > <mailto:steve%40familyszabo.com>> wrote: > > From: Steve Szabo <steve@... <mailto:steve%40familyszabo.com>> > Subject: [AquaticLife] Free Aquarium (4000 Gallons) > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Date: Thursday, September 24, 2009, 8:34 PM > > This is for those of you who live near, I think, Orlando, FL, but I am not > sure where Sanford, Florida, really is. > > You do need to be able to move it. > > http://orlando.craigslist.org/zip/1377286878.html > <http://orlando.craigslist.org/zip/1377286878.html> > > \\Steve// > > ------------------------------------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. 74/`7.88.><((((:>.74/`7.88.74/`7.8><((((:> 8.74/`7.8. , .74/`7..><((((:> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <:((((><.74/`7.88.74/`7.8<:((((><8.74/`7.8. , .74/`7..<:((((><74/`7.88. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the home page. Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com to receive the digest, which includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com for the No E-Mail option where you will still be able to read messages on the group and post replies. Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com to receive individual e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 43598	From: Troy	Date: 9/25/2009
Subject: Re: Rocks for your aquarium

What you don’t want are rocks that can change your water parameters. For example, if you are aiming for a neutral or low PH environment, limestone would be wrong for your aquarium since it would tend to raise PH. Slate and granite are probably OK. One suggestion is to get what looks good to you and then test with vinegar. Carbonate rocks—those that would tend to raise your PH—will bubble with vinegar or other acids. Troy From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of gailsugarpants Sent: Friday, September 25, 2009 1:19 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Rocks for your aquarium So, live near the beautiful Rocky Mountains and I was considering going on a hike with the kids and looking for some cool rocks for the aquarium. It's Freshwater. Any suggestions on what to look for and maybe what to avoid? I think we might be able to find some kinds of slate, granite and some limestone. Any suggestions or cautions? thanks, Gail [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 43599	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 9/25/2009
Subject: Re: Free Aquarium (4000 Gallons)

Too bad the weight limit for Fed ex is 150 lbs ;) Amber Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > > > Amber, > > Did you check out the overnight prices with FEDEX? You do get a > discount... > right? > > Maybe you could call NASA and they could piggy-back it on that 767 > that just > flew the Space Shuttle from Cali to Florida. It has to head back to Cali > anyhow so they might not mind making a little detour up your way. > > I just checked that ad again... still no changes to it. > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right > side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On > Behalf Of Steve Szabo > Sent: Friday, September 25, 2009 6:22 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Free Aquarium (4000 Gallons) > > Amber, > > Just wait to see what he says when you tell him you want it upstairs! > <G> > > \\Steve// > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] > On Behalf Of Amber Berglund > Sent: Friday, September 25, 2009 11:29 AM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Free Aquarium (4000 Gallons) > > Well that's the thing Bill, I don't want to think about what the hubby > will > say when something like that arrived at our doorstep ;) LOL. > I'm sure it wouldn't be really nice ;) > > Amber > > bill 1433 wrote: > > > > > > May I please ask the obvious questions here? > > Why doesn't someone simply email this guy and get the real answers and > > particulars on this thing? > > Also, since moving it is to be the main issue, what is it's over-all > > size? He already gives the weight. Come on Gang, the old aquarium > math! > > L X W X H !!!!!!!!!!!!! only you don't need to divide by the 231! > > We already know the gallons! > > > > In other words----------------will it fit on a semi flat-bed or > > tractor-trailer? > > Height and width are important, road permits for wide or over-sized > > load's, for bridge and overhead clearance may be necessary! > > > > Finally for Amber? Don't let these folks discourage you! You can use > > > this thing on your front porch or as the porch for that matter! Its > > just like moving any large structure, as long as your footings or > > foundation will take the weight, your good to go! Just think of what > > hubby will say when they wheel this thing in! > > > > Bill > > > > --- On Fri, 9/25/09, Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@... > <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com> > > <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com>> wrote: > > > > From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@... > <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com> > > <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com>> > > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Free Aquarium (4000 Gallons) > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > Date: Friday, September 25, 2009, 10:53 AM > > > > I kind of took this to mean filtration. I guess that there could have > > > been > > a 4,000G glass/acrylic aquarium slid into the structure but I figured > the > > concrete was the sides on three sides and then the glass front panel > but > > maybe they set a 4,000G glass aquarium on top of the concrete stand > > and then built up the sides around it. > > > > Whatever the case, folks should email this CL ad poster and tell them > to > > edit the ad if there is no "Free Aquarium"... or maybe send this one > > to Jay Leno for a stupid ad segment. > > > > "Free Aquarium".... (aquarium not included). LOL > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>> > > (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the > right > > side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, > Month) > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On Behalf Of pam andress > > Sent: Friday, September 25, 2009 12:49 AM > > To: aquaticlife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:aquaticlife%40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:aquaticlife%40yahoogroups.com> > > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Free Aquarium (4000 Gallons) > > > > That add states this: > > > > Use it as an aquarium (you will need to provide all the parts needed > as it > > is just the concrete and stone) > > > > Picture below shows sign with the aquarium attached (aquarium not > > included). > > > > Pam > > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > From: GoldLenny@... <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com> > <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com> > > Date: Thu, 24 Sep 2009 22:48:54 -0500 > > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Free Aquarium (4000 Gallons) > > > > > > > > Why are folks saying it's only a stand and not the aquarium? The > photos > > clearly show an aquarium structure with a glass front window and large > Koi > > swimming around inside of it. Yes, it's not an all glass aquarium but > > it is an aquarium... made of concrete, with a glass window and quarry > > slate siding. > > > > It looks like it might fit in the back of my largest pick-up truck... > but > > then I'll need a flat bed tow truck to tow my flattened pick-up truck. > I > > wonder how much a 1,000 mile tow would cost? ;-) > > > > Oh.. one other thing.. is that a leak down the front below the glass > > window and on the sides??? I see that the quarry slate appears to be > > wet and algae covered so maybe only the top half of this structure is > > the actual aquarium and the concrete sealant needs to be redone so it > > will stop leaching/leaking water. > > > > One last thing... is that rolled barb-wire on the top of this thing > > that can be seen in the top right image, on the left side of the roof > > area? > > Maybe the > > neighborhood kids were going swimming??? Heck, maybe Obama will buy > this > > thing and use it for Gitmo terrorists. Set it up at 1600 Pennsylvania > > Avenue and sell tickets to the tourists to come see the terrorists. > > ;-) Or > maybe > > house the latest crooked politician in the thing. Now, I'd pay to see > > that.. > > especially if my own local crook, William "Dollar Bill" Jefferson, is > > first!!! ;-) > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>> > (Links to any articles referenced in > > above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels > > and also under Archives by Year, Month) > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On Behalf Of pam andress > > Sent: Thursday, September 24, 2009 8:09 PM > > To: aquaticlife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:aquaticlife%40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:aquaticlife%40yahoogroups.com> > > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Free Aquarium (4000 Gallons) > > > > Plus it does NOT include the aquarium. > > > > Pam > > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > From: warrenprint@... <mailto:warrenprint%40yahoo.com> > <mailto:warrenprint%40yahoo.com> > > Date: Thu, 24 Sep 2009 17:54:16 -0700 > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Free Aquarium (4000 Gallons) > > > > Hi \\Steve// > > > > My favorite part of the ad? No, not the pictures---this line: > > > > "This unit was a showplace and would make a great backyard focal > point" > > > > Now anyone with any sense of proportion would be able to see that for > > some, this thing could be a back-yard! He quotes capacity at 4,000 > > gallons. > What > > do ya figure for outside dimensions? now where did I put that back-hoe > > license. Be coming down I-95, I could swing over and pick you up? <g> > > > > Bill > > > > --- On Thu, 9/24/09, Steve Szabo <steve@... > <mailto:steve%40familyszabo.com> > > <mailto:steve%40familyszabo.com>> wrote: > > > > From: Steve Szabo <steve@... > <mailto:steve%40familyszabo.com> > <mailto:steve%40familyszabo.com>> > > Subject: [AquaticLife] Free Aquarium (4000 Gallons) > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > Date: Thursday, September 24, 2009, 8:34 PM > > > > This is for those of you who live near, I think, Orlando, FL, but I am > not > > sure where Sanford, Florida, really is. > > > > You do need to be able to move it. > > > > http://orlando.craigslist.org/zip/1377286878.html > <http://orlando.craigslist.org/zip/1377286878.html> > > <http://orlando.craigslist.org/zip/1377286878.html > <http://orlando.craigslist.org/zip/1377286878.html>> > > > > \\Steve// > > > > > > ------------------------------------ > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. > 74/`7.88.><((((:>.74/`7.88.74/`7.8><((((:> 8.74/`7.8. , .74/`7..><((((:> > PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to > the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the > SUBJECT > LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- > <:((((><.74/`7.88.74/`7.8<:((((><8.74/`7.8. , .74/`7..<:((((><74/`7.88. > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. > > If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of unsubscribing, you > can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the > home page. > > Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:aquaticlife-digest%40yahoogroups.com> to receive the digest, which > includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email > > Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:aquaticlife-nomail%40yahoogroups.com> for the No E-Mail option > where > you will still be able to read messages on the group and post replies. > > Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:aquaticlife-normal%40yahoogroups.com> to receive individual > e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 43600	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 9/26/2009
Subject: Aquarium comes up with unique way to save coral reefs

http://www.khnl.com/Global/story.asp?S=11188293 http://tinyurl.com/y8a9awq WAIKIKI (KHNL) - As coral reefs continue to die off from environmental stresses, including global warming, the Waikiki Aquarium has come up with a unique way to help preserve this pivotal part of the ocean. The Waikiki Aquarium currently grows more than 120 species of corals from South Pacific to Hawaii. It's a collection unrivaled in the Western Hemisphere. . . . \\Steve//

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 43601	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 9/26/2009
Subject: Re: Free Aquarium (4000 Gallons)

Not for Fed Ex freight. \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Amber Berglund Sent: Saturday, September 26, 2009 12:38 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Free Aquarium (4000 Gallons) Too bad the weight limit for Fed ex is 150 lbs ;) Amber Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > > > Amber, > > Did you check out the overnight prices with FEDEX? You do get a > discount... > right? > > Maybe you could call NASA and they could piggy-back it on that 767 > that just > flew the Space Shuttle from Cali to Florida. It has to head back to Cali > anyhow so they might not mind making a little detour up your way. > > I just checked that ad again... still no changes to it. > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right > side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On > Behalf Of Steve Szabo > Sent: Friday, September 25, 2009 6:22 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Free Aquarium (4000 Gallons) > > Amber, > > Just wait to see what he says when you tell him you want it upstairs! > <G> > > \\Steve// > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] > On Behalf Of Amber Berglund > Sent: Friday, September 25, 2009 11:29 AM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Free Aquarium (4000 Gallons) > > Well that's the thing Bill, I don't want to think about what the hubby > will > say when something like that arrived at our doorstep ;) LOL. > I'm sure it wouldn't be really nice ;) > > Amber > > bill 1433 wrote: > > > > > > May I please ask the obvious questions here? > > Why doesn't someone simply email this guy and get the real answers and > > particulars on this thing? > > Also, since moving it is to be the main issue, what is it's over-all > > size? He already gives the weight. Come on Gang, the old aquarium > math! > > L X W X H !!!!!!!!!!!!! only you don't need to divide by the 231! > > We already know the gallons! > > > > In other words----------------will it fit on a semi flat-bed or > > tractor-trailer? > > Height and width are important, road permits for wide or over-sized > > load's, for bridge and overhead clearance may be necessary! > > > > Finally for Amber? Don't let these folks discourage you! You can use > > > this thing on your front porch or as the porch for that matter! Its > > just like moving any large structure, as long as your footings or > > foundation will take the weight, your good to go! Just think of what > > hubby will say when they wheel this thing in! > > > > Bill > > > > --- On Fri, 9/25/09, Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@... > <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com> > > <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com>> wrote: > > > > From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@... > <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com> > > <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com>> > > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Free Aquarium (4000 Gallons) > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > Date: Friday, September 25, 2009, 10:53 AM > > > > I kind of took this to mean filtration. I guess that there could have > > > been > > a 4,000G glass/acrylic aquarium slid into the structure but I figured > the > > concrete was the sides on three sides and then the glass front panel > but > > maybe they set a 4,000G glass aquarium on top of the concrete stand > > and then built up the sides around it. > > > > Whatever the case, folks should email this CL ad poster and tell them > to > > edit the ad if there is no "Free Aquarium"... or maybe send this one > > to Jay Leno for a stupid ad segment. > > > > "Free Aquarium".... (aquarium not included). LOL > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>> > > (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the > right > > side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, > Month) > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On Behalf Of pam andress > > Sent: Friday, September 25, 2009 12:49 AM > > To: aquaticlife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:aquaticlife%40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:aquaticlife%40yahoogroups.com> > > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Free Aquarium (4000 Gallons) > > > > That add states this: > > > > Use it as an aquarium (you will need to provide all the parts needed > as it > > is just the concrete and stone) > > > > Picture below shows sign with the aquarium attached (aquarium not > > included). > > > > Pam > > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > From: GoldLenny@... <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com> > <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com> > > Date: Thu, 24 Sep 2009 22:48:54 -0500 > > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Free Aquarium (4000 Gallons) > > > > > > > > Why are folks saying it's only a stand and not the aquarium? The > photos > > clearly show an aquarium structure with a glass front window and large > Koi > > swimming around inside of it. Yes, it's not an all glass aquarium but > > it is an aquarium... made of concrete, with a glass window and quarry > > slate siding. > > > > It looks like it might fit in the back of my largest pick-up truck... > but > > then I'll need a flat bed tow truck to tow my flattened pick-up truck. > I > > wonder how much a 1,000 mile tow would cost? ;-) > > > > Oh.. one other thing.. is that a leak down the front below the glass > > window and on the sides??? I see that the quarry slate appears to be > > wet and algae covered so maybe only the top half of this structure is > > the actual aquarium and the concrete sealant needs to be redone so it > > will stop leaching/leaking water. > > > > One last thing... is that rolled barb-wire on the top of this thing > > that can be seen in the top right image, on the left side of the roof > > area? > > Maybe the > > neighborhood kids were going swimming??? Heck, maybe Obama will buy > this > > thing and use it for Gitmo terrorists. Set it up at 1600 Pennsylvania > > Avenue and sell tickets to the tourists to come see the terrorists. > > ;-) Or > maybe > > house the latest crooked politician in the thing. Now, I'd pay to see > > that.. > > especially if my own local crook, William "Dollar Bill" Jefferson, is > > first!!! ;-) > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>> > (Links to any articles referenced in > > above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels > > and also under Archives by Year, Month) > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On Behalf Of pam andress > > Sent: Thursday, September 24, 2009 8:09 PM > > To: aquaticlife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:aquaticlife%40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:aquaticlife%40yahoogroups.com> > > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Free Aquarium (4000 Gallons) > > > > Plus it does NOT include the aquarium. > > > > Pam > > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > From: warrenprint@... <mailto:warrenprint%40yahoo.com> > <mailto:warrenprint%40yahoo.com> > > Date: Thu, 24 Sep 2009 17:54:16 -0700 > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Free Aquarium (4000 Gallons) > > > > Hi \\Steve// > > > > My favorite part of the ad? No, not the pictures---this line: > > > > "This unit was a showplace and would make a great backyard focal > point" > > > > Now anyone with any sense of proportion would be able to see that for > > some, this thing could be a back-yard! He quotes capacity at 4,000 > > gallons. > What > > do ya figure for outside dimensions? now where did I put that back-hoe > > license. Be coming down I-95, I could swing over and pick you up? <g> > > > > Bill > > > > --- On Thu, 9/24/09, Steve Szabo <steve@... > <mailto:steve%40familyszabo.com> > > <mailto:steve%40familyszabo.com>> wrote: > > > > From: Steve Szabo <steve@... > <mailto:steve%40familyszabo.com> > <mailto:steve%40familyszabo.com>> > > Subject: [AquaticLife] Free Aquarium (4000 Gallons) > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > Date: Thursday, September 24, 2009, 8:34 PM > > > > This is for those of you who live near, I think, Orlando, FL, but I am > not > > sure where Sanford, Florida, really is. > > > > You do need to be able to move it. > > > > http://orlando.craigslist.org/zip/1377286878.html > <http://orlando.craigslist.org/zip/1377286878.html> > > <http://orlando.craigslist.org/zip/1377286878.html > <http://orlando.craigslist.org/zip/1377286878.html>> > > > > \\Steve// > > > > > > ------------------------------------ > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. > 74/`7.88.><((((:>.74/`7.88.74/`7.8><((((:> 8.74/`7.8. , .74/`7..><((((:> > PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to > the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the > SUBJECT > LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- > <:((((><.74/`7.88.74/`7.8<:((((><8.74/`7.8. , .74/`7..<:((((><74/`7.88. > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. > > If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of unsubscribing, you > can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the > home page. > > Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:aquaticlife-digest%40yahoogroups.com> to receive the digest, which > includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email > > Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:aquaticlife-nomail%40yahoogroups.com> for the No E-Mail option > where > you will still be able to read messages on the group and post replies. > > Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:aquaticlife-normal%40yahoogroups.com> to receive individual > e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links > > ------------------------------------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the home page. Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com to receive the digest, which includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com for the No E-Mail option where you will still be able to read messages on the group and post replies. Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com to receive individual e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 43602	From: Dora Smith	Date: 9/26/2009
Subject: Re: Rocks for your aquarium

A little acid toilet bowl cleaner will quicklly tell you if your rocks have carbonate. Don't anyone say use vinegar instead; it isn't strong enough for all limestone, and it also doesn't fizz very vigorously. I live in a place where most rock is poor quality limestone, meaning it contains alot of clay but has a low carbonate content. In some states toilet bowl cleaners won't tell you if they're acid, but they are if it says "don't mix this product with bleach". Either it is bleach, or it is 10% hydrochloric acid, and mixing it with bleach will make deadly fumes that could kill you. I've successfully used toilet bowl cleaner to clean diatoms. Yours, Dora Smith Austin, TX tiggernut24@... ----- Original Message ----- From: "kuradi8" <kuradi8@...> To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Friday, September 25, 2009 6:13 PM Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Rocks for your aquarium Granite and slate should be neutral but limestone will raise the pH significantly. If you're not sure, test the rocks in a bucket of water. And yes, scrub them well. No soap but lots of water and elbow grease. ~Kai --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "gailsugarpants" <clandestine662002@...> wrote: > > So, live near the beautiful Rocky Mountains and I was considering going on > a hike with the kids and looking for some cool rocks for the aquarium. > It's Freshwater. Any suggestions on what to look for and maybe what to > avoid? > I think we might be able to find some kinds of slate, granite and some > limestone. > Any suggestions or cautions? > > thanks, > Gail > ------------------------------------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the home page. Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com to receive the digest, which includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com for the No E-Mail option where you will still be able to read messages on the group and post replies. Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com to receive individual e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 43603	From: werepossums	Date: 9/26/2009
Subject: Re: Re; BN not growing

For what it's worth our bristlenose have grown to almost 2" in about a year. I bought one male and two female adults to clean a 75 gallon tank and they began to breed - and won't stop. The first brood (about half a dozen) is now almost 2", the second brood (maybe a dozen) are about 1" long, and the third brood (maybe thirty) are from 3/8" to 3/4" long. We feed them parboiled zuchini slices, blanched kale or lettuce, and peas two to three times a week (whenever they've eaten the parts they like), and of course Tetra tablets and various algae wafers daily. They absolutely thrive, breeding even faster than guppies or White Clouds, and I've never seen a dead one. The original males grew to about 4", the female to about 3" or 3.5". We don't have many of our tanks set up, so I'm having to set up more tanks just for them, but still most will have to go to the pet store. Get some veggie clips and try vegetables. On a sad note my last golden shiner died today. That was my last native fish, just bristlenose and White Clouds and guppies and two rainbowfish that came in on plants as eggs are now left in our tanks. --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, Lisa Lawless <lisa_lawless2004@...> wrote: > > > Hi Lenny. >   > My tank is 22gal heated at 24* and filtered with an u/g filter. > There is about 18 fish in there, none over 2 ½ inch in length, except for my albino BN which is about 3 inch. > 95% real plants, and 3 pieces of driftwood which I have seen the juvi and albino munching on. >   > They also get Tubifex worms that are disgaurded by the mid and top swimmers. Also Spirilina flakes, and sinking algae disks and pellets. > Oh! and an occasional green veggie >   > Lisa > > > >   > > > __________________________________________________________________________________ > Find local businesses and services in your area with Yahoo!7 Local. > Get started: http://local.yahoo.com.au > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 43604	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 9/27/2009
Subject: Re: Free Aquarium (4000 Gallons)

I'm in Alaska Steve we don't have fed ex trucking up here, they'd have to swim ;) LOL. Everything comes into our island on a plane, so therefor it's all limited to 150 lbs. Amber Steve Szabo wrote: > > > Not for Fed Ex freight. > > \\Steve// > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On Behalf Of Amber Berglund > Sent: Saturday, September 26, 2009 12:38 AM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Free Aquarium (4000 Gallons) > > Too bad the weight limit for Fed ex is 150 lbs ;) > > Amber > > Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > > > > > > Amber, > > > > Did you check out the overnight prices with FEDEX? You do get a > > discount... > > right? > > > > Maybe you could call NASA and they could piggy-back it on that 767 > > that just > > flew the Space Shuttle from Cali to Florida. It has to head back to Cali > > anyhow so they might not mind making a little detour up your way. > > > > I just checked that ad again... still no changes to it. > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>> > > (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right > > side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, > Month) > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On > > Behalf Of Steve Szabo > > Sent: Friday, September 25, 2009 6:22 PM > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Free Aquarium (4000 Gallons) > > > > Amber, > > > > Just wait to see what he says when you tell him you want it upstairs! > > <G> > > > > \\Steve// > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] > > On Behalf Of Amber Berglund > > Sent: Friday, September 25, 2009 11:29 AM > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Free Aquarium (4000 Gallons) > > > > Well that's the thing Bill, I don't want to think about what the hubby > > will > > say when something like that arrived at our doorstep ;) LOL. > > I'm sure it wouldn't be really nice ;) > > > > Amber > > > > bill 1433 wrote: > > > > > > > > > May I please ask the obvious questions here? > > > Why doesn't someone simply email this guy and get the real answers and > > > particulars on this thing? > > > Also, since moving it is to be the main issue, what is it's over-all > > > size? He already gives the weight. Come on Gang, the old aquarium > > math! > > > L X W X H !!!!!!!!!!!!! only you don't need to divide by the 231! > > > We already know the gallons! > > > > > > In other words----------------will it fit on a semi flat-bed or > > > tractor-trailer? > > > Height and width are important, road permits for wide or over-sized > > > load's, for bridge and overhead clearance may be necessary! > > > > > > Finally for Amber? Don't let these folks discourage you! You can use > > > > > this thing on your front porch or as the porch for that matter! Its > > > just like moving any large structure, as long as your footings or > > > foundation will take the weight, your good to go! Just think of what > > > hubby will say when they wheel this thing in! > > > > > > Bill > > > > > > --- On Fri, 9/25/09, Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@... > <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com> > > <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com> > > > <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com>> wrote: > > > > > > From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@... > <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com> > > <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com> > > > <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com>> > > > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Free Aquarium (4000 Gallons) > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > Date: Friday, September 25, 2009, 10:53 AM > > > > > > I kind of took this to mean filtration. I guess that there could have > > > > > been > > > a 4,000G glass/acrylic aquarium slid into the structure but I figured > > the > > > concrete was the sides on three sides and then the glass front panel > > but > > > maybe they set a 4,000G glass aquarium on top of the concrete stand > > > and then built up the sides around it. > > > > > > Whatever the case, folks should email this CL ad poster and tell them > > to > > > edit the ad if there is no "Free Aquarium"... or maybe send this one > > > to Jay Leno for a stupid ad segment. > > > > > > "Free Aquarium".... (aquarium not included). LOL > > > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>> > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>>> > > > (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the > > right > > > side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, > > Month) > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On Behalf Of pam andress > > > Sent: Friday, September 25, 2009 12:49 AM > > > To: aquaticlife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:aquaticlife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:aquaticlife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:aquaticlife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Free Aquarium (4000 Gallons) > > > > > > That add states this: > > > > > > Use it as an aquarium (you will need to provide all the parts needed > > as it > > > is just the concrete and stone) > > > > > > Picture below shows sign with the aquarium attached (aquarium not > > > included). > > > > > > Pam > > > > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > From: GoldLenny@... <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com> > <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com> > > <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com> > > > Date: Thu, 24 Sep 2009 22:48:54 -0500 > > > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Free Aquarium (4000 Gallons) > > > > > > > > > > > > Why are folks saying it's only a stand and not the aquarium? The > > photos > > > clearly show an aquarium structure with a glass front window and large > > Koi > > > swimming around inside of it. Yes, it's not an all glass aquarium but > > > it is an aquarium... made of concrete, with a glass window and quarry > > > slate siding. > > > > > > It looks like it might fit in the back of my largest pick-up truck... > > but > > > then I'll need a flat bed tow truck to tow my flattened pick-up truck. > > I > > > wonder how much a 1,000 mile tow would cost? ;-) > > > > > > Oh.. one other thing.. is that a leak down the front below the glass > > > window and on the sides??? I see that the quarry slate appears to be > > > wet and algae covered so maybe only the top half of this structure is > > > the actual aquarium and the concrete sealant needs to be redone so it > > > will stop leaching/leaking water. > > > > > > One last thing... is that rolled barb-wire on the top of this thing > > > that can be seen in the top right image, on the left side of the roof > > > area? > > > Maybe the > > > neighborhood kids were going swimming??? Heck, maybe Obama will buy > > this > > > thing and use it for Gitmo terrorists. Set it up at 1600 Pennsylvania > > > Avenue and sell tickets to the tourists to come see the terrorists. > > > ;-) Or > > maybe > > > house the latest crooked politician in the thing. Now, I'd pay to see > > > that.. > > > especially if my own local crook, William "Dollar Bill" Jefferson, is > > > first!!! ;-) > > > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>> > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>>> > > (Links to any articles referenced in > > > above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels > > > and also under Archives by Year, Month) > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On Behalf Of pam andress > > > Sent: Thursday, September 24, 2009 8:09 PM > > > To: aquaticlife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:aquaticlife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:aquaticlife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:aquaticlife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Free Aquarium (4000 Gallons) > > > > > > Plus it does NOT include the aquarium. > > > > > > Pam > > > > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > From: warrenprint@... <mailto:warrenprint%40yahoo.com> > <mailto:warrenprint%40yahoo.com> > > <mailto:warrenprint%40yahoo.com> > > > Date: Thu, 24 Sep 2009 17:54:16 -0700 > > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Free Aquarium (4000 Gallons) > > > > > > Hi \\Steve// > > > > > > My favorite part of the ad? No, not the pictures---this line: > > > > > > "This unit was a showplace and would make a great backyard focal > > point" > > > > > > Now anyone with any sense of proportion would be able to see that for > > > some, this thing could be a back-yard! He quotes capacity at 4,000 > > > gallons. > > What > > > do ya figure for outside dimensions? now where did I put that back-hoe > > > license. Be coming down I-95, I could swing over and pick you up? <g> > > > > > > Bill > > > > > > --- On Thu, 9/24/09, Steve Szabo <steve@... > <mailto:steve%40familyszabo.com> > > <mailto:steve%40familyszabo.com> > > > <mailto:steve%40familyszabo.com>> wrote: > > > > > > From: Steve Szabo <steve@... > <mailto:steve%40familyszabo.com> > > <mailto:steve%40familyszabo.com> > > <mailto:steve%40familyszabo.com>> > > > Subject: [AquaticLife] Free Aquarium (4000 Gallons) > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > Date: Thursday, September 24, 2009, 8:34 PM > > > > > > This is for those of you who live near, I think, Orlando, FL, but I am > > not > > > sure where Sanford, Florida, really is. > > > > > > You do need to be able to move it. > > > > > > http://orlando.craigslist.org/zip/1377286878.html > <http://orlando.craigslist.org/zip/1377286878.html> > > <http://orlando.craigslist.org/zip/1377286878.html > <http://orlando.craigslist.org/zip/1377286878.html>> > > > <http://orlando.craigslist.org/zip/1377286878.html > <http://orlando.craigslist.org/zip/1377286878.html> > > <http://orlando.craigslist.org/zip/1377286878.html > <http://orlando.craigslist.org/zip/1377286878.html>>> > > > > > > \\Steve// > > > > > > > > > > ------------------------------------ > > > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, > Thank You. > > 74/`7.88.><((((:>.74/`7.88.74/`7.8><((((:> 8.74/`7.8. , .74/`7..><((((:> > > PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT > important to > > the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the > > SUBJECT > > LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- > > <:((((><.74/`7.88.74/`7.8<:((((><8.74/`7.8. , .74/`7..<:((((><74/`7.88. > > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. > > > > If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of > unsubscribing, you > > can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My Membership" > on the > > home page. > > > > Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:aquaticlife-digest%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:aquaticlife-digest%40yahoogroups.com> to receive the digest, > which > > includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email > > > > Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:aquaticlife-nomail%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:aquaticlife-nomail%40yahoogroups.com> for the No E-Mail option > > where > > you will still be able to read messages on the group and post replies. > > > > Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:aquaticlife-normal%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:aquaticlife-normal%40yahoogroups.com> to receive individual > > e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > ------------------------------------ > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. > ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> > PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT > important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message > MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- > <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. > > If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of unsubscribing, > you can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My > Membership" on the home page. > > Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:aquaticlife-digest%40yahoogroups.com> to receive the digest, > which includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email > > Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:aquaticlife-nomail%40yahoogroups.com> for the No E-Mail option > where you will still be able to read messages on the group and post > replies. > > Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:aquaticlife-normal%40yahoogroups.com> to receive individual > e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 43605	From: bill 1433	Date: 9/27/2009
Subject: Re: Free Aquarium (4000 Gallons)

No Worries Amber!   If you were to contact your neighborhood Air National Guard, they could handle this easily though the use of a KC-130 or Globe Master C-5.  Of course, provisions would have to be made upon delivery for transport from their base to your home.  They would most likely handle this entire operation as I training exercise, after all they move tanks all the time, but you would be made responsible for all fuel-cost incurred!  Perhaps your local congress men could step in and pave the way so to speak?  That is, unless you spring for a direct aerial drop by helicopter right to your drive-way.  Just think of it!  What a Christmas Present it would make!  Why it would be just like Santa landing on your roof!   Bill --- On Sun, 9/27/09, Amber Berglund <arberglund@...> wrote: From: Amber Berglund <arberglund@...> Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Free Aquarium (4000 Gallons) To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Date: Sunday, September 27, 2009, 1:29 PM I'm in Alaska Steve we don't have fed ex trucking up here, they'd have to swim ;) LOL. Everything comes into our island on a plane, so therefor it's all limited to 150 lbs. Amber Steve Szabo wrote: >  > > Not for Fed Ex freight. > > \\Steve// > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On Behalf Of Amber Berglund > Sent: Saturday, September 26, 2009 12:38 AM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Free Aquarium (4000 Gallons) > > Too bad the weight limit for Fed ex is 150 lbs ;) > > Amber > > Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > > > > > > Amber, > > > > Did you check out the overnight prices with FEDEX? You do get a > > discount... > > right? > > > > Maybe you could call NASA and they could piggy-back it on that 767 > > that just > > flew the Space Shuttle from Cali to Florida. It has to head back to Cali > > anyhow so they might not mind making a little detour up your way. > > > > I just checked that ad again... still no changes to it. > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>> > > (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right > > side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, > Month) > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On > > Behalf Of Steve Szabo > > Sent: Friday, September 25, 2009 6:22 PM > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Free Aquarium (4000 Gallons) > > > > Amber, > > > > Just wait to see what he says when you tell him you want it upstairs! > > <G> > > > > \\Steve// > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] > > On Behalf Of Amber Berglund > > Sent: Friday, September 25, 2009 11:29 AM > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Free Aquarium (4000 Gallons) > > > > Well that's the thing Bill, I don't want to think about what the hubby > > will > > say when something like that arrived at our doorstep ;) LOL. > > I'm sure it wouldn't be really nice ;) > > > > Amber > > > > bill 1433 wrote: > > > > > > > > > May I please ask the obvious questions here? > > > Why doesn't someone simply email this guy and get the real answers and > > > particulars on this thing? > > > Also, since moving it is to be the main issue, what is it's over-all > > > size? He already gives the weight. Come on Gang, the old aquarium > > math! > > > L X W X H !!!!!!!!!!!!! only you don't need to divide by the 231! > > > We already know the gallons! > > > > > > In other words----------------will it fit on a semi flat-bed or > > > tractor-trailer? > > > Height and width are important, road permits for wide or over-sized > > > load's, for bridge and overhead clearance may be necessary! > > > > > > Finally for Amber? Don't let these folks discourage you! You can use > > > > > this thing on your front porch or as the porch for that matter! Its > > > just like moving any large structure, as long as your footings or > > > foundation will take the weight, your good to go! Just think of what > > > hubby will say when they wheel this thing in! > > > > > > Bill > > > > > > --- On Fri, 9/25/09, Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@... > <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com> > > <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com> > > > <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com>> wrote: > > > > > > From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@... > <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com> > > <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com> > > > <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com>> > > > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Free Aquarium (4000 Gallons) > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > Date: Friday, September 25, 2009, 10:53 AM > > > > > > I kind of took this to mean filtration. I guess that there could have > > > > > been > > > a 4,000G glass/acrylic aquarium slid into the structure but I figured > > the > > > concrete was the sides on three sides and then the glass front panel > > but > > > maybe they set a 4,000G glass aquarium on top of the concrete stand > > > and then built up the sides around it. > > > > > > Whatever the case, folks should email this CL ad poster and tell them > > to > > > edit the ad if there is no "Free Aquarium"... or maybe send this one > > > to Jay Leno for a stupid ad segment. > > > > > > "Free Aquarium".... (aquarium not included). LOL > > > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>> > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>>> > > > (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the > > right > > > side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, > > Month) > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On Behalf Of pam andress > > > Sent: Friday, September 25, 2009 12:49 AM > > > To: aquaticlife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:aquaticlife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:aquaticlife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:aquaticlife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Free Aquarium (4000 Gallons) > > > > > > That add states this: > > > > > > Use it as an aquarium (you will need to provide all the parts needed > > as it > > > is just the concrete and stone) > > > > > > Picture below shows sign with the aquarium attached (aquarium not > > > included). > > > > > > Pam > > > > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > From: GoldLenny@... <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com> > <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com> > > <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com> > > > Date: Thu, 24 Sep 2009 22:48:54 -0500 > > > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Free Aquarium (4000 Gallons) > > > > > > > > > > > > Why are folks saying it's only a stand and not the aquarium? The > > photos > > > clearly show an aquarium structure with a glass front window and large > > Koi > > > swimming around inside of it. Yes, it's not an all glass aquarium but > > > it is an aquarium... made of concrete, with a glass window and quarry > > > slate siding. > > > > > > It looks like it might fit in the back of my largest pick-up truck... > > but > > > then I'll need a flat bed tow truck to tow my flattened pick-up truck. > > I > > > wonder how much a 1,000 mile tow would cost? ;-) > > > > > > Oh.. one other thing.. is that a leak down the front below the glass > > > window and on the sides??? I see that the quarry slate appears to be > > > wet and algae covered so maybe only the top half of this structure is > > > the actual aquarium and the concrete sealant needs to be redone so it > > > will stop leaching/leaking water. > > > > > > One last thing... is that rolled barb-wire on the top of this thing > > > that can be seen in the top right image, on the left side of the roof > > > area? > > > Maybe the > > > neighborhood kids were going swimming??? Heck, maybe Obama will buy > > this > > > thing and use it for Gitmo terrorists. Set it up at 1600 Pennsylvania > > > Avenue and sell tickets to the tourists to come see the terrorists. > > > ;-) Or > > maybe > > > house the latest crooked politician in the thing. Now, I'd pay to see > > > that.. > > > especially if my own local crook, William "Dollar Bill" Jefferson, is > > > first!!! ;-) > > > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>> > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>>> > > (Links to any articles referenced in > > > above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels > > > and also under Archives by Year, Month) > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On Behalf Of pam andress > > > Sent: Thursday, September 24, 2009 8:09 PM > > > To: aquaticlife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:aquaticlife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:aquaticlife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:aquaticlife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Free Aquarium (4000 Gallons) > > > > > > Plus it does NOT include the aquarium. > > > > > > Pam > > > > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > From: warrenprint@... <mailto:warrenprint%40yahoo.com> > <mailto:warrenprint%40yahoo.com> > > <mailto:warrenprint%40yahoo.com> > > > Date: Thu, 24 Sep 2009 17:54:16 -0700 > > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Free Aquarium (4000 Gallons) > > > > > > Hi \\Steve// > > > > > > My favorite part of the ad? No, not the pictures---this line: > > > > > > "This unit was a showplace and would make a great backyard focal > > point" > > > > > > Now anyone with any sense of proportion would be able to see that for > > > some, this thing could be a back-yard! He quotes capacity at 4,000 > > > gallons. > > What > > > do ya figure for outside dimensions? now where did I put that back-hoe > > > license. Be coming down I-95, I could swing over and pick you up? <g> > > > > > > Bill > > > > > > --- On Thu, 9/24/09, Steve Szabo <steve@... > <mailto:steve%40familyszabo.com> > > <mailto:steve%40familyszabo.com> > > > <mailto:steve%40familyszabo.com>> wrote: > > > > > > From: Steve Szabo <steve@... > <mailto:steve%40familyszabo.com> > > <mailto:steve%40familyszabo.com> > > <mailto:steve%40familyszabo.com>> > > > Subject: [AquaticLife] Free Aquarium (4000 Gallons) > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > Date: Thursday, September 24, 2009, 8:34 PM > > > > > > This is for those of you who live near, I think, Orlando, FL, but I am > > not > > > sure where Sanford, Florida, really is. > > > > > > You do need to be able to move it. > > > > > > http://orlando.craigslist.org/zip/1377286878.html > <http://orlando.craigslist.org/zip/1377286878.html> > > <http://orlando.craigslist.org/zip/1377286878.html > <http://orlando.craigslist.org/zip/1377286878.html>> > > > <http://orlando.craigslist.org/zip/1377286878.html > <http://orlando.craigslist.org/zip/1377286878.html> > > <http://orlando.craigslist.org/zip/1377286878.html > <http://orlando.craigslist.org/zip/1377286878.html>>> > > > > > > \\Steve// > > > > > > > > > > ------------------------------------ > > > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, > Thank You. > > 74/`7.88.><((((:>.74/`7.88.74/`7.8><((((:> 8.74/`7.8. , .74/`7..><((((:> > > PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT > important to > > the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the > > SUBJECT > > LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- > > <:((((><.74/`7.88.74/`7.8<:((((><8.74/`7.8. , .74/`7..<:((((><74/`7.88. > > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. > > > > If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of > unsubscribing, you > > can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My Membership" > on the > > home page. > > > > Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:aquaticlife-digest%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:aquaticlife-digest%40yahoogroups.com> to receive the digest, > which > > includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email > > > > Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:aquaticlife-nomail%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:aquaticlife-nomail%40yahoogroups.com> for the No E-Mail option > > where > > you will still be able to read messages on the group and post replies. > > > > Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:aquaticlife-normal%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:aquaticlife-normal%40yahoogroups.com> to receive individual > > e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > ------------------------------------ > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. > ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> > PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT > important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message > MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- > <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. > > If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of unsubscribing, > you can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My > Membership" on the home page. > > Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:aquaticlife-digest%40yahoogroups.com> to receive the digest, > which includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email > > Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:aquaticlife-nomail%40yahoogroups.com> for the No E-Mail option > where you will still be able to read messages on the group and post > replies. > > Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:aquaticlife-normal%40yahoogroups.com> to receive individual > e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links > > ------------------------------------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the home page.  Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com to receive the digest, which includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com for the No E-Mail option where you will still be able to read messages on the group and post replies. Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com to receive individual e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 43606	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 9/27/2009
Subject: Re: Free Aquarium (4000 Gallons)

Well I hope Santa doesn't put something that heavy on my roof, I may not have a home afterwards ;) LOL Amber bill 1433 wrote: > > > No Worries Amber! > > If you were to contact your neighborhood Air National Guard, they > could handle this easily though the use of a KC-130 or Globe Master > C-5. Of course, provisions would have to be made upon delivery for > transport from their base to your home. They would most likely handle > this entire operation as I training exercise, after all they move > tanks all the time, but you would be made responsible for all > fuel-cost incurred! Perhaps your local congress men could step in and > pave the way so to speak? That is, unless you spring for a direct > aerial drop by helicopter right to your drive-way. Just think of it! > What a Christmas Present it would make! Why it would be just like > Santa landing on your roof! > > Bill > > --- On Sun, 9/27/09, Amber Berglund <arberglund@... > <mailto:arberglund%40gmail.com>> wrote: > > From: Amber Berglund <arberglund@... > <mailto:arberglund%40gmail.com>> > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Free Aquarium (4000 Gallons) > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Date: Sunday, September 27, 2009, 1:29 PM > > I'm in Alaska Steve we don't have fed ex trucking up here, they'd have > to swim ;) LOL. > Everything comes into our island on a plane, so therefor it's all > limited to 150 lbs. > > Amber > > Steve Szabo wrote: > > > > > > Not for Fed Ex freight. > > > > \\Steve// > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On Behalf Of Amber Berglund > > Sent: Saturday, September 26, 2009 12:38 AM > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Free Aquarium (4000 Gallons) > > > > Too bad the weight limit for Fed ex is 150 lbs ;) > > > > Amber > > > > Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > > > > > > > > > Amber, > > > > > > Did you check out the overnight prices with FEDEX? You do get a > > > discount... > > > right? > > > > > > Maybe you could call NASA and they could piggy-back it on that 767 > > > that just > > > flew the Space Shuttle from Cali to Florida. It has to head back > to Cali > > > anyhow so they might not mind making a little detour up your way. > > > > > > I just checked that ad again... still no changes to it. > > > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>>> > > > (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the > right > > > side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, > > Month) > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On > > > Behalf Of Steve Szabo > > > Sent: Friday, September 25, 2009 6:22 PM > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Free Aquarium (4000 Gallons) > > > > > > Amber, > > > > > > Just wait to see what he says when you tell him you want it upstairs! > > > <G> > > > > > > \\Steve// > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] > > > On Behalf Of Amber Berglund > > > Sent: Friday, September 25, 2009 11:29 AM > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Free Aquarium (4000 Gallons) > > > > > > Well that's the thing Bill, I don't want to think about what the hubby > > > will > > > say when something like that arrived at our doorstep ;) LOL. > > > I'm sure it wouldn't be really nice ;) > > > > > > Amber > > > > > > bill 1433 wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > May I please ask the obvious questions here? > > > > Why doesn't someone simply email this guy and get the real > answers and > > > > particulars on this thing? > > > > Also, since moving it is to be the main issue, what is it's over-all > > > > size? He already gives the weight. Come on Gang, the old aquarium > > > math! > > > > L X W X H !!!!!!!!!!!!! only you don't need to divide by the 231! > > > > We already know the gallons! > > > > > > > > In other words----------------will it fit on a semi flat-bed or > > > > tractor-trailer? > > > > Height and width are important, road permits for wide or over-sized > > > > load's, for bridge and overhead clearance may be necessary! > > > > > > > > Finally for Amber? Don't let these folks discourage you! You can use > > > > > > > this thing on your front porch or as the porch for that matter! Its > > > > just like moving any large structure, as long as your footings or > > > > foundation will take the weight, your good to go! Just think of what > > > > hubby will say when they wheel this thing in! > > > > > > > > Bill > > > > > > > > --- On Fri, 9/25/09, Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@... > <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com> > > <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com> > > > <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com> > > > > <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com>> wrote: > > > > > > > > From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@... > <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com> > > <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com> > > > <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com> > > > > <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com>> > > > > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Free Aquarium (4000 Gallons) > > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > Date: Friday, September 25, 2009, 10:53 AM > > > > > > > > I kind of took this to mean filtration. I guess that there could > have > > > > > > > been > > > > a 4,000G glass/acrylic aquarium slid into the structure but I > figured > > > the > > > > concrete was the sides on three sides and then the glass front panel > > > but > > > > maybe they set a 4,000G glass aquarium on top of the concrete stand > > > > and then built up the sides around it. > > > > > > > > Whatever the case, folks should email this CL ad poster and tell > them > > > to > > > > edit the ad if there is no "Free Aquarium"... or maybe send this one > > > > to Jay Leno for a stupid ad segment. > > > > > > > > "Free Aquarium".... (aquarium not included). LOL > > > > > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>> > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>>> > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>> > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>>>> > > > > (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the > > > right > > > > side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, > > > Month) > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On Behalf Of pam andress > > > > Sent: Friday, September 25, 2009 12:49 AM > > > > To: aquaticlife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:aquaticlife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:aquaticlife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > <mailto:aquaticlife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > <mailto:aquaticlife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Free Aquarium (4000 Gallons) > > > > > > > > That add states this: > > > > > > > > Use it as an aquarium (you will need to provide all the parts needed > > > as it > > > > is just the concrete and stone) > > > > > > > > Picture below shows sign with the aquarium attached (aquarium not > > > > included). > > > > > > > > Pam > > > > > > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > From: GoldLenny@... <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com> > <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com> > > <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com> > > > <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com> > > > > Date: Thu, 24 Sep 2009 22:48:54 -0500 > > > > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Free Aquarium (4000 Gallons) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Why are folks saying it's only a stand and not the aquarium? The > > > photos > > > > clearly show an aquarium structure with a glass front window and > large > > > Koi > > > > swimming around inside of it. Yes, it's not an all glass > aquarium but > > > > it is an aquarium... made of concrete, with a glass window and > quarry > > > > slate siding. > > > > > > > > It looks like it might fit in the back of my largest pick-up > truck... > > > but > > > > then I'll need a flat bed tow truck to tow my flattened pick-up > truck. > > > I > > > > wonder how much a 1,000 mile tow would cost? ;-) > > > > > > > > Oh.. one other thing.. is that a leak down the front below the glass > > > > window and on the sides??? I see that the quarry slate appears to be > > > > wet and algae covered so maybe only the top half of this > structure is > > > > the actual aquarium and the concrete sealant needs to be redone > so it > > > > will stop leaching/leaking water. > > > > > > > > One last thing... is that rolled barb-wire on the top of this thing > > > > that can be seen in the top right image, on the left side of the > roof > > > > area? > > > > Maybe the > > > > neighborhood kids were going swimming??? Heck, maybe Obama will buy > > > this > > > > thing and use it for Gitmo terrorists. Set it up at 1600 > Pennsylvania > > > > Avenue and sell tickets to the tourists to come see the terrorists. > > > > ;-) Or > > > maybe > > > > house the latest crooked politician in the thing. Now, I'd pay > to see > > > > that.. > > > > especially if my own local crook, William "Dollar Bill" > Jefferson, is > > > > first!!! ;-) > > > > > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>> > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>>> > > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>> > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>>>> > > > (Links to any articles referenced in > > > > above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under > Labels > > > > and also under Archives by Year, Month) > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On Behalf Of pam andress > > > > Sent: Thursday, September 24, 2009 8:09 PM > > > > To: aquaticlife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:aquaticlife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:aquaticlife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > <mailto:aquaticlife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > <mailto:aquaticlife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Free Aquarium (4000 Gallons) > > > > > > > > Plus it does NOT include the aquarium. > > > > > > > > Pam > > > > > > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > From: warrenprint@... <mailto:warrenprint%40yahoo.com> > <mailto:warrenprint%40yahoo.com> > > <mailto:warrenprint%40yahoo.com> > > > <mailto:warrenprint%40yahoo.com> > > > > Date: Thu, 24 Sep 2009 17:54:16 -0700 > > > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Free Aquarium (4000 Gallons) > > > > > > > > Hi \\Steve// > > > > > > > > My favorite part of the ad? No, not the pictures---this line: > > > > > > > > "This unit was a showplace and would make a great backyard focal > > > point" > > > > > > > > Now anyone with any sense of proportion would be able to see > that for > > > > some, this thing could be a back-yard! He quotes capacity at 4,000 > > > > gallons. > > > What > > > > do ya figure for outside dimensions? now where did I put that > back-hoe > > > > license. Be coming down I-95, I could swing over and pick you > up? <g> > > > > > > > > Bill > > > > > > > > --- On Thu, 9/24/09, Steve Szabo <steve@... > <mailto:steve%40familyszabo.com> > > <mailto:steve%40familyszabo.com> > > > <mailto:steve%40familyszabo.com> > > > > <mailto:steve%40familyszabo.com>> wrote: > > > > > > > > From: Steve Szabo <steve@... > <mailto:steve%40familyszabo.com> > > <mailto:steve%40familyszabo.com> > > > <mailto:steve%40familyszabo.com> > > > <mailto:steve%40familyszabo.com>> > > > > Subject: [AquaticLife] Free Aquarium (4000 Gallons) > > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > Date: Thursday, September 24, 2009, 8:34 PM > > > > > > > > This is for those of you who live near, I think, Orlando, FL, > but I am > > > not > > > > sure where Sanford, Florida, really is. > > > > > > > > You do need to be able to move it. > > > > > > > > http://orlando.craigslist.org/zip/1377286878.html > <http://orlando.craigslist.org/zip/1377286878.html> > > <http://orlando.craigslist.org/zip/1377286878.html > <http://orlando.craigslist.org/zip/1377286878.html>> > > > <http://orlando.craigslist.org/zip/1377286878.html > <http://orlando.craigslist.org/zip/1377286878.html> > > <http://orlando.craigslist.org/zip/1377286878.html > <http://orlando.craigslist.org/zip/1377286878.html>>> > > > > <http://orlando.craigslist.org/zip/1377286878.html > <http://orlando.craigslist.org/zip/1377286878.html> > > <http://orlando.craigslist.org/zip/1377286878.html > <http://orlando.craigslist.org/zip/1377286878.html>> > > > <http://orlando.craigslist.org/zip/1377286878.html > <http://orlando.craigslist.org/zip/1377286878.html> > > <http://orlando.craigslist.org/zip/1377286878.html > <http://orlando.craigslist.org/zip/1377286878.html>>>> > > > > > > > > \\Steve// > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ------------------------------------ > > > > > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, > > Thank You. > > > 74/`7.88.><((((:>.74/`7.88.74/`7.8><((((:> 8.74/`7.8. , > .74/`7..><((((:> > > > PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT > > important to > > > the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the > > > SUBJECT > > > LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- > > > <:((((><.74/`7.88.74/`7.8<:((((><8.74/`7.8. , > .74/`7..<:((((><74/`7.88. > > > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. > > > > > > If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of > > unsubscribing, you > > > can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My Membership" > > on the > > > home page. > > > > > > Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:aquaticlife-digest%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:aquaticlife-digest%40yahoogroups.com> > > > <mailto:aquaticlife-digest%40yahoogroups.com> to receive the digest, > > which > > > includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email > > > > > > Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:aquaticlife-nomail%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:aquaticlife-nomail%40yahoogroups.com> > > > <mailto:aquaticlife-nomail%40yahoogroups.com> for the No E-Mail option > > > where > > > you will still be able to read messages on the group and post replies. > > > > > > Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:aquaticlife-normal%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:aquaticlife-normal%40yahoogroups.com> > > > <mailto:aquaticlife-normal%40yahoogroups.com> to receive individual > > > e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > > > > > ------------------------------------ > > > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, > Thank You. > > ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> > > PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT > > important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message > > MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- > > <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. > > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. > > > > If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of unsubscribing, > > you can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My > > Membership" on the home page. > > > > Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:aquaticlife-digest%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:aquaticlife-digest%40yahoogroups.com> to receive the digest, > > which includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email > > > > Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:aquaticlife-nomail%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:aquaticlife-nomail%40yahoogroups.com> for the No E-Mail option > > where you will still be able to read messages on the group and post > > replies. > > > > Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:aquaticlife-normal%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:aquaticlife-normal%40yahoogroups.com> to receive individual > > e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > ------------------------------------ > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. > ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> > PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT > important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message > MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- > <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. > > If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of unsubscribing, > you can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My > Membership" on the home page. > > Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:aquaticlife-digest%40yahoogroups.com> to receive the digest, > which includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email > > Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:aquaticlife-nomail%40yahoogroups.com> for the No E-Mail option > where you will still be able to read messages on the group and post > replies. > > Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:aquaticlife-normal%40yahoogroups.com> to receive individual > e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 43607	From: bill 1433	Date: 9/27/2009
Subject: Re: Free Aquarium (4000 Gallons)

Hi Amber,   To be truthful, and perfect honest with you, I think it would all depend on if "You've been a good little girl this past year"!   Bill --- On Sun, 9/27/09, Amber Berglund <arberglund@...> wrote: > From: Amber Berglund <arberglund@...> > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Free Aquarium (4000 Gallons) > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Date: Sunday, September 27, 2009, 2:22 PM > Well I hope Santa doesn't put > something that heavy on my roof, I may not > have a home afterwards ;) LOL > > Amber > > bill 1433 wrote: > >  > > > > No Worries Amber! > >  > > If you were to contact your neighborhood Air National > Guard, they > > could handle this easily though the use of a KC-130 or > Globe Master > > C-5.  Of course, provisions would have to be made > upon delivery for > > transport from their base to your home.  They > would most likely handle > > this entire operation as I training exercise, after > all they move > > tanks all the time, but you would be made responsible > for all > > fuel-cost incurred!  Perhaps your local congress > men could step in and > > pave the way so to speak?  That is, unless you > spring for a direct > > aerial drop by helicopter right to your > drive-way.  Just think of it!  > > What a Christmas Present it would make!  Why it > would be just like > > Santa landing on your roof! > >  > > Bill > > > > --- On Sun, 9/27/09, Amber Berglund <arberglund@... > > > <mailto:arberglund%40gmail.com>> wrote: > > > > From: Amber Berglund <arberglund@... > > > <mailto:arberglund%40gmail.com>> > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Free Aquarium (4000 > Gallons) > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > Date: Sunday, September 27, 2009, 1:29 PM > > > > I'm in Alaska Steve we don't have fed ex trucking up > here, they'd have > > to swim ;) LOL. > > Everything comes into our island on a plane, so > therefor it's all > > limited to 150 lbs. > > > > Amber > > > > Steve Szabo wrote: > > > > > > > > > Not for Fed Ex freight. > > > > > > \\Steve// > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On > Behalf Of Amber Berglund > > > Sent: Saturday, September 26, 2009 12:38 AM > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Free Aquarium (4000 > Gallons) > > > > > > Too bad the weight limit for Fed ex is 150 lbs > ;) > > > > > > Amber > > > > > > Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > Amber, > > > > > > > > Did you check out the overnight prices with > FEDEX? You do get a > > > > discount... > > > > right? > > > > > > > > Maybe you could call NASA and they could > piggy-back it on that 767 > > > > that just > > > > flew the Space Shuttle from Cali to Florida. > It has to head back > > to Cali > > > > anyhow so they might not mind making a > little detour up your way. > > > > > > > > I just checked that ad again... still no > changes to it. > > > > > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>> > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>>> > > > > (Links to any articles referenced in above > reply are listed on the > > right > > > > side, alphabetically under Labels and also > under Archives by Year, > > > Month) > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On > > > > Behalf Of Steve Szabo > > > > Sent: Friday, September 25, 2009 6:22 PM > > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Free Aquarium > (4000 Gallons) > > > > > > > > Amber, > > > > > > > > Just wait to see what he says when you tell > him you want it upstairs! > > > > <G> > > > > > > > > \\Steve// > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] > > > > On Behalf Of Amber Berglund > > > > Sent: Friday, September 25, 2009 11:29 AM > > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Free Aquarium > (4000 Gallons) > > > > > > > > Well that's the thing Bill, I don't want to > think about what the hubby > > > > will > > > > say when something like that arrived at our > doorstep ;) LOL. > > > > I'm sure it wouldn't be really nice ;) > > > > > > > > Amber > > > > > > > > bill 1433 wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > May I please ask the obvious questions > here? > > > > > Why doesn't someone simply email this > guy and get the real > > answers and > > > > > particulars on this thing? > > > > > Also, since moving it is to be the main > issue, what is it's over-all > > > > > size? He already gives the weight. Come > on Gang, the old aquarium > > > > math! > > > > > L X W X H !!!!!!!!!!!!! only you don't > need to divide by the 231! > > > > > We already know the gallons! > > > > > > > > > > In other words----------------will it > fit on a semi flat-bed or > > > > > tractor-trailer? > > > > > Height and width are important, road > permits for wide or over-sized > > > > > load's, for bridge and overhead > clearance may be necessary! > > > > > > > > > > Finally for Amber? Don't let these > folks discourage you! You can use > > > > > > > > > this thing on your front porch or as > the porch for that matter! Its > > > > > just like moving any large structure, > as long as your footings or > > > > > foundation will take the weight, your > good to go! Just think of what > > > > > hubby will say when they wheel this > thing in! > > > > > > > > > > Bill > > > > > > > > > > --- On Fri, 9/25/09, Lenny V. aka > GoldLenny <GoldLenny@... > > > <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com> > > > <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com> > > > > <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com> > > > > > > <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com>> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@... > > > <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com> > > > <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com> > > > > <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com> > > > > > > <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com>> > > > > > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Free > Aquarium (4000 Gallons) > > > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > Date: Friday, September 25, 2009, 10:53 > AM > > > > > > > > > > I kind of took this to mean filtration. > I guess that there could > > have > > > > > > > > > been > > > > > a 4,000G glass/acrylic aquarium slid > into the structure but I > > figured > > > > the > > > > > concrete was the sides on three sides > and then the glass front panel > > > > but > > > > > maybe they set a 4,000G glass aquarium > on top of the concrete stand > > > > > and then built up the sides around it. > > > > > > > > > > Whatever the case, folks should email > this CL ad poster and tell > > them > > > > to > > > > > edit the ad if there is no "Free > Aquarium"... or maybe send this one > > > > > to Jay Leno for a stupid ad segment. > > > > > > > > > > "Free Aquarium".... (aquarium not > included). LOL > > > > > > > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > > > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>> > > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>>> > > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>> > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>>>> > > > > > (Links to any articles referenced in > above reply are listed on the > > > > right > > > > > side, alphabetically under Labels and > also under Archives by Year, > > > > Month) > > > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On Behalf Of > pam andress > > > > > Sent: Friday, September 25, 2009 12:49 > AM > > > > > To: aquaticlife@yahoogroups.com > > > <mailto:aquaticlife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > <mailto:aquaticlife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > <mailto:aquaticlife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > <mailto:aquaticlife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Free > Aquarium (4000 Gallons) > > > > > > > > > > That add states this: > > > > > > > > > > Use it as an aquarium (you will need to > provide all the parts needed > > > > as it > > > > > is just the concrete and stone) > > > > > > > > > > Picture below shows sign with the > aquarium attached (aquarium not > > > > > included). > > > > > > > > > > Pam > > > > > > > > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > From: GoldLenny@... > <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com> > > <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com> > > > <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com> > > > > <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com> > > > > > Date: Thu, 24 Sep 2009 22:48:54 -0500 > > > > > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Free > Aquarium (4000 Gallons) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Why are folks saying it's only a stand > and not the aquarium? The > > > > photos > > > > > clearly show an aquarium structure with > a glass front window and > > large > > > > Koi > > > > > swimming around inside of it. Yes, it's > not an all glass > > aquarium but > > > > > it is an aquarium... made of concrete, > with a glass window and > > quarry > > > > > slate siding. > > > > > > > > > > It looks like it might fit in the back > of my largest pick-up > > truck... > > > > but > > > > > then I'll need a flat bed tow truck to > tow my flattened pick-up > > truck. > > > > I > > > > > wonder how much a 1,000 mile tow would > cost? ;-) > > > > > > > > > > Oh.. one other thing.. is that a leak > down the front below the glass > > > > > window and on the sides??? I see that > the quarry slate appears to be > > > > > wet and algae covered so maybe only the > top half of this > > structure is > > > > > the actual aquarium and the concrete > sealant needs to be redone > > so it > > > > > will stop leaching/leaking water. > > > > > > > > > > One last thing... is that rolled > barb-wire on the top of this thing > > > > > that can be seen in the top right > image, on the left side of the > > roof > > > > > area? > > > > > Maybe the > > > > > neighborhood kids were going > swimming??? Heck, maybe Obama will buy > > > > this > > > > > thing and use it for Gitmo terrorists. > Set it up at 1600 > > Pennsylvania > > > > > Avenue and sell tickets to the tourists > to come see the terrorists. > > > > > ;-) Or > > > > maybe > > > > > house the latest crooked politician in > the thing. Now, I'd pay > > to see > > > > > that.. > > > > > especially if my own local crook, > William "Dollar Bill" > > Jefferson, is > > > > > first!!! ;-) > > > > > > > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > > > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>> > > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>>> > > > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>> > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>>>> > > > > (Links to any articles referenced in > > > > > above reply are listed on the right > side, alphabetically under > > Labels > > > > > and also under Archives by Year, > Month) > > > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On Behalf Of > pam andress > > > > > Sent: Thursday, September 24, 2009 8:09 > PM > > > > > To: aquaticlife@yahoogroups.com > > > <mailto:aquaticlife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > <mailto:aquaticlife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > <mailto:aquaticlife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > <mailto:aquaticlife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Free > Aquarium (4000 Gallons) > > > > > > > > > > Plus it does NOT include the aquarium. > > > > > > > > > > Pam > > > > > > > > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > From: warrenprint@... > <mailto:warrenprint%40yahoo.com> > > <mailto:warrenprint%40yahoo.com> > > > <mailto:warrenprint%40yahoo.com> > > > > <mailto:warrenprint%40yahoo.com> > > > > > Date: Thu, 24 Sep 2009 17:54:16 -0700 > > > > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Free > Aquarium (4000 Gallons) > > > > > > > > > > Hi \\Steve// > > > > > > > > > > My favorite part of the ad? No, not the > pictures---this line: > > > > > > > > > > "This unit was a showplace and would > make a great backyard focal > > > > point" > > > > > > > > > > Now anyone with any sense of proportion > would be able to see > > that for > > > > > some, this thing could be a back-yard! > He quotes capacity at 4,000 > > > > > gallons. > > > > What > > > > > do ya figure for outside dimensions? > now where did I put that > > back-hoe > > > > > license. Be coming down I-95, I could > swing over and pick you > > up? <g> > > > > > > > > > > Bill > > > > > > > > > > --- On Thu, 9/24/09, Steve Szabo <steve@... > > > <mailto:steve%40familyszabo.com> > > > <mailto:steve%40familyszabo.com> > > > > <mailto:steve%40familyszabo.com> > > > > > > <mailto:steve%40familyszabo.com>> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > From: Steve Szabo <steve@... > > > <mailto:steve%40familyszabo.com> > > > <mailto:steve%40familyszabo.com> > > > > <mailto:steve%40familyszabo.com> > > > > <mailto:steve%40familyszabo.com>> > > > > > Subject: [AquaticLife] Free Aquarium > (4000 Gallons) > > > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > Date: Thursday, September 24, 2009, > 8:34 PM > > > > > > > > > > This is for those of you who live near, > I think, Orlando, FL, > > but I am > > > > not > > > > > sure where Sanford, Florida, really > is. > > > > > > > > > > You do need to be able to move it. > > > > > > > > > > http://orlando.craigslist.org/zip/1377286878.html > > <http://orlando.craigslist.org/zip/1377286878.html> > > > <http://orlando.craigslist.org/zip/1377286878.html > > <http://orlando.craigslist.org/zip/1377286878.html>> > > > > <http://orlando.craigslist.org/zip/1377286878.html > > <http://orlando.craigslist.org/zip/1377286878.html> > > > <http://orlando.craigslist.org/zip/1377286878.html > > <http://orlando.craigslist.org/zip/1377286878.html>>> > > > > > <http://orlando.craigslist.org/zip/1377286878.html > > <http://orlando.craigslist.org/zip/1377286878.html> > > > <http://orlando.craigslist.org/zip/1377286878.html > > <http://orlando.craigslist.org/zip/1377286878.html>> > > > > <http://orlando.craigslist.org/zip/1377286878.html > > <http://orlando.craigslist.org/zip/1377286878.html> > > > <http://orlando.craigslist.org/zip/1377286878.html > > <http://orlando.craigslist.org/zip/1377286878.html>>>> > > > > > > > > > > \\Steve// > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ------------------------------------ > > > > > > > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING > below it when replying, > > > Thank You. > > > > > 74/`7.88.><((((:>.74/`7.88.74/`7.8><((((:> > 8.74/`7.8. , > > .74/`7..><((((:> > > > > PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all > TEXT that is NOT > > > important to > > > > the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the > original message MODIFY the > > > > SUBJECT > > > > LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old > subject)" <- > > > > > <:((((><.74/`7.88.74/`7.8<:((((><8.74/`7.8. > , > > .74/`7..<:((((><74/`7.88. > > > > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in > this matter. > > > > > > > > If you do not want all of the groups emails, > instead of > > > unsubscribing, you > > > > can change your delivery option by clicking > on "Edit My Membership" > > > on the > > > > home page. > > > > > > > > Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com > > > <mailto:aquaticlife-digest%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > <mailto:aquaticlife-digest%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > <mailto:aquaticlife-digest%40yahoogroups.com> to > receive the digest, > > > which > > > > includes up to 25 posts at a time in a > single email > > > > > > > > Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com > > > <mailto:aquaticlife-nomail%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > <mailto:aquaticlife-nomail%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > <mailto:aquaticlife-nomail%40yahoogroups.com> for the > No E-Mail option > > > > where > > > > you will still be able to read messages on > the group and post replies. > > > > > > > > Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com > > > <mailto:aquaticlife-normal%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > <mailto:aquaticlife-normal%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > <mailto:aquaticlife-normal%40yahoogroups.com> to > receive individual > > > > e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ------------------------------------ > > > > > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it > when replying, > > Thank You. > > > > ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> > ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> > > > PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT > that is NOT > > > important to the reply & if CHANGING the > TOPIC of the original message > > > MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject > (was re: old subject)" <- > > > > <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. > , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. > > > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this > matter. > > > > > > If you do not want all of the groups emails, > instead of unsubscribing, > > > you can change your delivery option by clicking > on "Edit My > > > Membership" on the home page. > > > > > > Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com > > > <mailto:aquaticlife-digest%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > <mailto:aquaticlife-digest%40yahoogroups.com> to > receive the digest, > > > which includes up to 25 posts at a time in a > single email > > > > > > Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com > > > <mailto:aquaticlife-nomail%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > <mailto:aquaticlife-nomail%40yahoogroups.com> for the > No E-Mail option > > > where you will still be able to read messages on > the group and post > > > replies. > > > > > > Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com > > > <mailto:aquaticlife-normal%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > <mailto:aquaticlife-normal%40yahoogroups.com> to > receive individual > > > e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > > > > > ------------------------------------ > > > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when > replying, Thank You. > > > ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> > ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> > > PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that > is NOT > > important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of > the original message > > MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was > re: old subject)" <- > > > <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. > , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. > > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. > > > > If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead > of unsubscribing, > > you can change your delivery option by clicking on > "Edit My > > Membership" on the home page. > > > > Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com > > > <mailto:aquaticlife-digest%40yahoogroups.com> to > receive the digest, > > which includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single > email > > > > Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com > > > <mailto:aquaticlife-nomail%40yahoogroups.com> > for the No E-Mail option > > where you will still be able to read messages on the > group and post > > replies. > > > > Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com > > > <mailto:aquaticlife-normal%40yahoogroups.com> to > receive individual > > e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > > ------------------------------------ > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when > replying, Thank You. > ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> > ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> > PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is > NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of > the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new > subject (was re: old subject)" <- > <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. > , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. > > If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of > unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by > clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the home page.  > > Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com > to receive the digest, which includes up to 25 posts at a > time in a single email > > Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com > for the No E-Mail option where you will still be able to > read messages on the group and post replies. > > Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com > to receive individual e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links > > >     mailto:AquaticLife-fullfeatured@yahoogroups.com > > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 43608	From: harry perry	Date: 9/27/2009
Subject: Re: Free Aquarium (4000 Gallons)/so

Hey Gang, How would you stock this 4000 gal. tank?. Remember, be careful, no over sized fish. Harry --- On Sun, 9/27/09, bill 1433 <warrenprint@...> wrote: From: bill 1433 <warrenprint@...> Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Free Aquarium (4000 Gallons) To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Date: Sunday, September 27, 2009, 2:36 PM   Hi Amber,   To be truthful, and perfect honest with you, I think it would all depend on if "You've been a good little girl this past year"!   Bill --- On Sun, 9/27/09, Amber Berglund <arberglund@gmail. com> wrote: > From: Amber Berglund <arberglund@gmail. com> > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Free Aquarium (4000 Gallons) > To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com > Date: Sunday, September 27, 2009, 2:22 PM > Well I hope Santa doesn't put > something that heavy on my roof, I may not > have a home afterwards ;) LOL > > Amber > > bill 1433 wrote: > >  > > > > No Worries Amber! > >  > > If you were to contact your neighborhood Air National > Guard, they > > could handle this easily though the use of a KC-130 or > Globe Master > > C-5.  Of course, provisions would have to be made > upon delivery for > > transport from their base to your home.  They > would most likely handle > > this entire operation as I training exercise, after > all they move > > tanks all the time, but you would be made responsible > for all > > fuel-cost incurred!  Perhaps your local congress > men could step in and > > pave the way so to speak?  That is, unless you > spring for a direct > > aerial drop by helicopter right to your > drive-way.  Just think of it!  > > What a Christmas Present it would make!  Why it > would be just like > > Santa landing on your roof! > >  > > Bill > > > > --- On Sun, 9/27/09, Amber Berglund <arberglund@gmail. com > > > <mailto:arberglund% 40gmail.com> > wrote: > > > > From: Amber Berglund <arberglund@gmail. com > > > <mailto:arberglund% 40gmail.com> > > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Free Aquarium (4000 > Gallons) > > To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com > <mailto:AquaticLife %40yahoogroups. com> > > Date: Sunday, September 27, 2009, 1:29 PM > > > > I'm in Alaska Steve we don't have fed ex trucking up > here, they'd have > > to swim ;) LOL. > > Everything comes into our island on a plane, so > therefor it's all > > limited to 150 lbs. > > > > Amber > > > > Steve Szabo wrote: > > > > > > > > > Not for Fed Ex freight. > > > > > > \\Steve// > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > From: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com > > > <mailto:AquaticLife %40yahoogroups. com> > > > <mailto:AquaticLife %40yahoogroups. com> > > > [mailto:AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com > > > <mailto:AquaticLife %40yahoogroups. com> > > > <mailto:AquaticLife %40yahoogroups. com>] On > Behalf Of Amber Berglund > > > Sent: Saturday, September 26, 2009 12:38 AM > > > To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com > > > <mailto:AquaticLife %40yahoogroups. com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife %40yahoogroups. com> > > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Free Aquarium (4000 > Gallons) > > > > > > Too bad the weight limit for Fed ex is 150 lbs > ;) > > > > > > Amber > > > > > > Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > Amber, > > > > > > > > Did you check out the overnight prices with > FEDEX? You do get a > > > > discount... > > > > right? > > > > > > > > Maybe you could call NASA and they could > piggy-back it on that 767 > > > > that just > > > > flew the Space Shuttle from Cali to Florida. > It has to head back > > to Cali > > > > anyhow so they might not mind making a > little detour up your way. > > > > > > > > I just checked that ad again... still no > changes to it. > > > > > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com > > <http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com> > > > <http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com <http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com>> > > <http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com <http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com> > > > <http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com <http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com>>> > > > > (Links to any articles referenced in above > reply are listed on the > > right > > > > side, alphabetically under Labels and also > under Archives by Year, > > > Month) > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > > From: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com > > > <mailto:AquaticLife %40yahoogroups. com> > > > <mailto:AquaticLife %40yahoogroups. com> > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife %40yahoogroups. com> > > > > [mailto:AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com > > > <mailto:AquaticLife %40yahoogroups. com> > > > <mailto:AquaticLife %40yahoogroups. com> > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife %40yahoogroups. com>] On > > > > Behalf Of Steve Szabo > > > > Sent: Friday, September 25, 2009 6:22 PM > > > > To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com > > > <mailto:AquaticLife %40yahoogroups. com> > > > <mailto:AquaticLife %40yahoogroups. com> > > > <mailto:AquaticLife %40yahoogroups. com> > > > > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Free Aquarium > (4000 Gallons) > > > > > > > > Amber, > > > > > > > > Just wait to see what he says when you tell > him you want it upstairs! > > > > <G> > > > > > > > > \\Steve// > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > > From: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com > > > <mailto:AquaticLife %40yahoogroups. com> > > > <mailto:AquaticLife %40yahoogroups. com> > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife %40yahoogroups. com> > > > > [mailto:AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com > > > <mailto:AquaticLife %40yahoogroups. com> > > > <mailto:AquaticLife %40yahoogroups. com> > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife %40yahoogroups. com>] > > > > On Behalf Of Amber Berglund > > > > Sent: Friday, September 25, 2009 11:29 AM > > > > To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com > > > <mailto:AquaticLife %40yahoogroups. com> > > > <mailto:AquaticLife %40yahoogroups. com> > > > <mailto:AquaticLife %40yahoogroups. com> > > > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Free Aquarium > (4000 Gallons) > > > > > > > > Well that's the thing Bill, I don't want to > think about what the hubby > > > > will > > > > say when something like that arrived at our > doorstep ;) LOL. > > > > I'm sure it wouldn't be really nice ;) > > > > > > > > Amber > > > > > > > > bill 1433 wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > May I please ask the obvious questions > here? > > > > > Why doesn't someone simply email this > guy and get the real > > answers and > > > > > particulars on this thing? > > > > > Also, since moving it is to be the main > issue, what is it's over-all > > > > > size? He already gives the weight. Come > on Gang, the old aquarium > > > > math! > > > > > L X W X H !!!!!!!!!!!! ! only you don't > need to divide by the 231! > > > > > We already know the gallons! > > > > > > > > > > In other words------- --------- will it > fit on a semi flat-bed or > > > > > tractor-trailer? > > > > > Height and width are important, road > permits for wide or over-sized > > > > > load's, for bridge and overhead > clearance may be necessary! > > > > > > > > > > Finally for Amber? Don't let these > folks discourage you! You can use > > > > > > > > > this thing on your front porch or as > the porch for that matter! Its > > > > > just like moving any large structure, > as long as your footings or > > > > > foundation will take the weight, your > good to go! Just think of what > > > > > hubby will say when they wheel this > thing in! > > > > > > > > > > Bill > > > > > > > > > > --- On Fri, 9/25/09, Lenny V. aka > GoldLenny <GoldLenny@gmail. com > > > <mailto:GoldLenny% 40gmail.com> > > > <mailto:GoldLenny% 40gmail.com> > > > > <mailto:GoldLenny% 40gmail.com> > > > > > > <mailto:GoldLenny% 40gmail.com> > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@gmail. com > > > <mailto:GoldLenny% 40gmail.com> > > > <mailto:GoldLenny% 40gmail.com> > > > > <mailto:GoldLenny% 40gmail.com> > > > > > > <mailto:GoldLenny% 40gmail.com> > > > > > > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Free > Aquarium (4000 Gallons) > > > > > To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com > > > <mailto:AquaticLife %40yahoogroups. com> > > > <mailto:AquaticLife %40yahoogroups. com> > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife %40yahoogroups. com> > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife %40yahoogroups. com> > > > > > Date: Friday, September 25, 2009, 10:53 > AM > > > > > > > > > > I kind of took this to mean filtration. > I guess that there could > > have > > > > > > > > > been > > > > > a 4,000G glass/acrylic aquarium slid > into the structure but I > > figured > > > > the > > > > > concrete was the sides on three sides > and then the glass front panel > > > > but > > > > > maybe they set a 4,000G glass aquarium > on top of the concrete stand > > > > > and then built up the sides around it. > > > > > > > > > > Whatever the case, folks should email > this CL ad poster and tell > > them > > > > to > > > > > edit the ad if there is no "Free > Aquarium"... or maybe send this one > > > > > to Jay Leno for a stupid ad segment. > > > > > > > > > > "Free Aquarium"... . (aquarium not > included). LOL > > > > > > > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > > > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com > > <http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com> > > > <http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com <http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com>> > > > > <http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com <http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com> > > <http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com <http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com>>> > > > > <http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com <http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com> > > <http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com <http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com>> > > > <http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com <http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com> > > <http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com <http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com>>>> > > > > > (Links to any articles referenced in > above reply are listed on the > > > > right > > > > > side, alphabetically under Labels and > also under Archives by Year, > > > > Month) > > > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > > > From: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com > > > <mailto:AquaticLife %40yahoogroups. com> > > > <mailto:AquaticLife %40yahoogroups. com> > > > <mailto:AquaticLife %40yahoogroups. com> > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife %40yahoogroups. com> > > > > > [mailto:AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com > > > <mailto:AquaticLife %40yahoogroups. com> > > > <mailto:AquaticLife %40yahoogroups. com> > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife %40yahoogroups. com> > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife %40yahoogroups. com>] On Behalf Of > pam andress > > > > > Sent: Friday, September 25, 2009 12:49 > AM > > > > > To: aquaticlife@ yahoogroups. com > > > <mailto:aquaticlife %40yahoogroups. com> > > > <mailto:aquaticlife %40yahoogroups. com> > > > > > <mailto:aquaticlife %40yahoogroups. com> > > > > > <mailto:aquaticlife %40yahoogroups. com> > > > > > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Free > Aquarium (4000 Gallons) > > > > > > > > > > That add states this: > > > > > > > > > > Use it as an aquarium (you will need to > provide all the parts needed > > > > as it > > > > > is just the concrete and stone) > > > > > > > > > > Picture below shows sign with the > aquarium attached (aquarium not > > > > > included). > > > > > > > > > > Pam > > > > > > > > > > To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com > > > <mailto:AquaticLife %40yahoogroups. com> > > > <mailto:AquaticLife %40yahoogroups. com> > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife %40yahoogroups. com> > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife %40yahoogroups. com> > > > > > From: GoldLenny@gmail. com > <mailto:GoldLenny% 40gmail.com> > > <mailto:GoldLenny% 40gmail.com> > > > <mailto:GoldLenny% 40gmail.com> > > > > <mailto:GoldLenny% 40gmail.com> > > > > > Date: Thu, 24 Sep 2009 22:48:54 -0500 > > > > > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Free > Aquarium (4000 Gallons) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Why are folks saying it's only a stand > and not the aquarium? The > > > > photos > > > > > clearly show an aquarium structure with > a glass front window and > > large > > > > Koi > > > > > swimming around inside of it. Yes, it's > not an all glass > > aquarium but > > > > > it is an aquarium... made of concrete, > with a glass window and > > quarry > > > > > slate siding. > > > > > > > > > > It looks like it might fit in the back > of my largest pick-up > > truck... > > > > but > > > > > then I'll need a flat bed tow truck to > tow my flattened pick-up > > truck. > > > > I > > > > > wonder how much a 1,000 mile tow would > cost? ;-) > > > > > > > > > > Oh.. one other thing.. is that a leak > down the front below the glass > > > > > window and on the sides??? I see that > the quarry slate appears to be > > > > > wet and algae covered so maybe only the > top half of this > > structure is > > > > > the actual aquarium and the concrete > sealant needs to be redone > > so it > > > > > will stop leaching/leaking water. > > > > > > > > > > One last thing... is that rolled > barb-wire on the top of this thing > > > > > that can be seen in the top right > image, on the left side of the > > roof > > > > > area? > > > > > Maybe the > > > > > neighborhood kids were going > swimming??? Heck, maybe Obama will buy > > > > this > > > > > thing and use it for Gitmo terrorists. > Set it up at 1600 > > Pennsylvania > > > > > Avenue and sell tickets to the tourists > to come see the terrorists. > > > > > ;-) Or > > > > maybe > > > > > house the latest crooked politician in > the thing. Now, I'd pay > > to see > > > > > that.. > > > > > especially if my own local crook, > William "Dollar Bill" > > Jefferson, is > > > > > first!!! ;-) > > > > > > > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > > > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com > > <http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com> > > > <http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com <http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com>> > > > > <http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com <http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com> > > <http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com <http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com>>> > > > > > <http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com <http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com> > > <http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com <http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com>> > > > <http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com <http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com> > > <http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com <http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com>>>> > > > > (Links to any articles referenced in > > > > > above reply are listed on the right > side, alphabetically under > > Labels > > > > > and also under Archives by Year, > Month) > > > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > > > From: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com > > > <mailto:AquaticLife %40yahoogroups. com> > > > <mailto:AquaticLife %40yahoogroups. com> > > > <mailto:AquaticLife %40yahoogroups. com> > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife %40yahoogroups. com> > > > > > [mailto:AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com > > > <mailto:AquaticLife %40yahoogroups. com> > > > <mailto:AquaticLife %40yahoogroups. com> > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife %40yahoogroups. com> > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife %40yahoogroups. com>] On Behalf Of > pam andress > > > > > Sent: Thursday, September 24, 2009 8:09 > PM > > > > > To: aquaticlife@ yahoogroups. com > > > <mailto:aquaticlife %40yahoogroups. com> > > > <mailto:aquaticlife %40yahoogroups. com> > > > > > <mailto:aquaticlife %40yahoogroups. com> > > > > > <mailto:aquaticlife %40yahoogroups. com> > > > > > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Free > Aquarium (4000 Gallons) > > > > > > > > > > Plus it does NOT include the aquarium. > > > > > > > > > > Pam > > > > > > > > > > To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com > > > <mailto:AquaticLife %40yahoogroups. com> > > > <mailto:AquaticLife %40yahoogroups. com> > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife %40yahoogroups. com> > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife %40yahoogroups. com> > > > > > From: warrenprint@ yahoo.com > <mailto:warrenprint %40yahoo. com> > > <mailto:warrenprint %40yahoo. com> > > > <mailto:warrenprint %40yahoo. com> > > > > <mailto:warrenprint %40yahoo. com> > > > > > Date: Thu, 24 Sep 2009 17:54:16 -0700 > > > > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Free > Aquarium (4000 Gallons) > > > > > > > > > > Hi \\Steve// > > > > > > > > > > My favorite part of the ad? No, not the > pictures---this line: > > > > > > > > > > "This unit was a showplace and would > make a great backyard focal > > > > point" > > > > > > > > > > Now anyone with any sense of proportion > would be able to see > > that for > > > > > some, this thing could be a back-yard! > He quotes capacity at 4,000 > > > > > gallons. > > > > What > > > > > do ya figure for outside dimensions? > now where did I put that > > back-hoe > > > > > license. Be coming down I-95, I could > swing over and pick you > > up? <g> > > > > > > > > > > Bill > > > > > > > > > > --- On Thu, 9/24/09, Steve Szabo <steve@familyszabo. com > > > <mailto:steve% 40familyszabo. com> > > > <mailto:steve% 40familyszabo. com> > > > > <mailto:steve% 40familyszabo. com> > > > > > > <mailto:steve% 40familyszabo. com>> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > From: Steve Szabo <steve@familyszabo. com > > > <mailto:steve% 40familyszabo. com> > > > <mailto:steve% 40familyszabo. com> > > > > <mailto:steve% 40familyszabo. com> > > > > <mailto:steve% 40familyszabo. com>> > > > > > Subject: [AquaticLife] Free Aquarium > (4000 Gallons) > > > > > To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com > > > <mailto:AquaticLife %40yahoogroups. com> > > > <mailto:AquaticLife %40yahoogroups. com> > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife %40yahoogroups. com> > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife %40yahoogroups. com> > > > > > Date: Thursday, September 24, 2009, > 8:34 PM > > > > > > > > > > This is for those of you who live near, > I think, Orlando, FL, > > but I am > > > > not > > > > > sure where Sanford, Florida, really > is. > > > > > > > > > > You do need to be able to move it. > > > > > > > > > > http://orlando. craigslist. org/zip/13772868 78.html > > <http://orlando. craigslist. org/zip/13772868 78.html> > > > <http://orlando. craigslist. org/zip/13772868 78.html > > <http://orlando. craigslist. org/zip/13772868 78.html>> > > > > <http://orlando. craigslist. org/zip/13772868 78.html > > <http://orlando. craigslist. org/zip/13772868 78.html> > > > <http://orlando. craigslist. org/zip/13772868 78.html > > <http://orlando. craigslist. org/zip/13772868 78.html>>> > > > > > <http://orlando. craigslist. org/zip/13772868 78.html > > <http://orlando. craigslist. org/zip/13772868 78.html> > > > <http://orlando. craigslist. org/zip/13772868 78.html > > <http://orlando. craigslist. org/zip/13772868 78.html>> > > > > <http://orlando. craigslist. org/zip/13772868 78.html > > <http://orlando. craigslist. org/zip/13772868 78.html> > > > <http://orlando. craigslist. org/zip/13772868 78.html > > <http://orlando. craigslist. org/zip/13772868 78.html>>>> > > > > > > > > > > \\Steve// > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ------------ --------- --------- ------ > > > > > > > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING > below it when replying, > > > Thank You. > > > > > 74/`7.88.><( (((:>.74/ `7.88.74/ `7.8><((( (:> > 8.74/`7.8. , > > .74/`7..><(( ((:> > > > > PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all > TEXT that is NOT > > > important to > > > > the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the > original message MODIFY the > > > > SUBJECT > > > > LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old > subject)" <- > > > > > <:((((><.74/ `7.88.74/ `7.8<:((( (><8.74/` 7.8. > , > > .74/`7..<:(( ((><74/`7. 88. > > > > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in > this matter. > > > > > > > > If you do not want all of the groups emails, > instead of > > > unsubscribing, you > > > > can change your delivery option by clicking > on "Edit My Membership" > > > on the > > > > home page. > > > > > > > > Or e-mail aquaticlife- digest@yahoogrou ps.com > > > <mailto:aquaticlife -digest%40yahoog roups.com> > > > > <mailto:aquaticlife -digest%40yahoog roups.com> > > > > > <mailto:aquaticlife -digest%40yahoog roups.com> to > receive the digest, > > > which > > > > includes up to 25 posts at a time in a > single email > > > > > > > > Or email aquaticlife- nomail@yahoogrou ps.com > > > <mailto:aquaticlife -nomail%40yahoog roups.com> > > > > <mailto:aquaticlife -nomail%40yahoog roups.com> > > > > > <mailto:aquaticlife -nomail%40yahoog roups.com> for the > No E-Mail option > > > > where > > > > you will still be able to read messages on > the group and post replies. > > > > > > > > Or email aquaticlife- normal@yahoogrou ps.com > > > <mailto:aquaticlife -normal%40yahoog roups.com> > > > > <mailto:aquaticlife -normal%40yahoog roups.com> > > > > > <mailto:aquaticlife -normal%40yahoog roups.com> to > receive individual > > > > e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ------------ --------- --------- ------ > > > > > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it > when replying, > > Thank You. > > > > ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> > ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> > > > PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT > that is NOT > > > important to the reply & if CHANGING the > TOPIC of the original message > > > MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject > (was re: old subject)" <- > > > > <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. > , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. > > > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this > matter. > > > > > > If you do not want all of the groups emails, > instead of unsubscribing, > > > you can change your delivery option by clicking > on "Edit My > > > Membership" on the home page. > > > > > > Or e-mail aquaticlife- digest@yahoogrou ps.com > > > <mailto:aquaticlife -digest%40yahoog roups.com> > > > > <mailto:aquaticlife -digest%40yahoog roups.com> to > receive the digest, > > > which includes up to 25 posts at a time in a > single email > > > > > > Or email aquaticlife- nomail@yahoogrou ps.com > > > <mailto:aquaticlife -nomail%40yahoog roups.com> > > > > <mailto:aquaticlife -nomail%40yahoog roups.com> for the > No E-Mail option > > > where you will still be able to read messages on > the group and post > > > replies. > > > > > > Or email aquaticlife- normal@yahoogrou ps.com > > > <mailto:aquaticlife -normal%40yahoog roups.com> > > > > <mailto:aquaticlife -normal%40yahoog roups.com> to > receive individual > > > e-mails.Yahoo! 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Groups Links > > > > > > > ------------ --------- --------- ------ > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when > replying, Thank You. > ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> > ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> > PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is > NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of > the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new > subject (was re: old subject)" <- > <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. > , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. > > If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of > unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by > clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the home page.  > > Or e-mail aquaticlife- digest@yahoogrou ps.com > to receive the digest, which includes up to 25 posts at a > time in a single email > > Or email aquaticlife- nomail@yahoogrou ps.com > for the No E-Mail option where you will still be able to > read messages on the group and post replies. > > Or email aquaticlife- normal@yahoogrou ps.com > to receive individual e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links > > >     mailto:AquaticLife- fullfeatured@ yahoogroups. com > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 43609	From: bill 1433	Date: 9/27/2009
Subject: Re: Free Aquarium (4000 Gallons)/so

Hi Harry, For me that would be and easy one to answer: With as many German Blue Rams as would fit in it! Bill --- On Sun, 9/27/09, harry perry <harryfisherman@...> wrote: > From: harry perry <harryfisherman@...> > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Free Aquarium (4000 Gallons)/so > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Date: Sunday, September 27, 2009, 2:47 PM > Hey Gang, > How would you stock this 4000 gal. tank?. > > Remember, be careful, no over sized fish. > Harry > --- On Sun, 9/27/09, bill 1433 <warrenprint@...> > wrote: > > From: bill 1433 <warrenprint@...> > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Free Aquarium (4000 Gallons) > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Date: Sunday, September 27, 2009, 2:36 PM > > > > > > > > > > > > > >   > > > > >     >                 >   Hi Amber, > >   > > To be truthful, and perfect honest with you, I think it > would > > all depend on if "You've been a good little girl this past > year"! > >   > > Bill > > > > --- On Sun, 9/27/09, Amber Berglund <arberglund@gmail. > com> wrote: > > > > > From: Amber Berglund <arberglund@gmail. com> > > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Free Aquarium (4000 > Gallons) > > > To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com > > > Date: Sunday, September 27, 2009, 2:22 PM > > > Well I hope Santa doesn't put > > > something that heavy on my roof, I may not > > > have a home afterwards ;) LOL > > > > > > Amber > > > > > > bill 1433 wrote: > > > >  > > > > > > > > No Worries Amber! > > > >  > > > > If you were to contact your neighborhood Air > National > > > Guard, they > > > > could handle this easily though the use of a > KC-130 or > > > Globe Master > > > > C-5.  Of course, provisions would have to be > made > > > upon delivery for > > > > transport from their base to your home.  They > > > would most likely handle > > > > this entire operation as I training exercise, > after > > > all they move > > > > tanks all the time, but you would be made > responsible > > > for all > > > > fuel-cost incurred!  Perhaps your local > congress > > > men could step in and > > > > pave the way so to speak?  That is, unless you > > > spring for a direct > > > > aerial drop by helicopter right to your > > > drive-way.  Just think of it!  > > > > What a Christmas Present it would make!  Why it > > > would be just like > > > > Santa landing on your roof! > > > >  > > > > Bill > > > > > > > > --- On Sun, 9/27/09, Amber Berglund > <arberglund@gmail. com > > > > > > > <mailto:arberglund% 40gmail.com> > > wrote: > > > > > > > > From: Amber Berglund <arberglund@gmail. com > > > > > > > <mailto:arberglund% 40gmail.com> > > > > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Free Aquarium (4000 > > > Gallons) > > > > To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com > > > <mailto:AquaticLife %40yahoogroups. com> > > > > Date: Sunday, September 27, 2009, 1:29 PM > > > > > > > > I'm in Alaska Steve we don't have fed ex trucking > up > > > here, they'd have > > > > to swim ;) LOL. > > > > Everything comes into our island on a plane, so > > > therefor it's all > > > > limited to 150 lbs. > > > > > > > > Amber > > > > > > > > Steve Szabo wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Not for Fed Ex freight. > > > > > > > > > > \\Steve// > > > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > > > From: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com > > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife %40yahoogroups. com> > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife %40yahoogroups. > com> > > > > > [mailto:AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com > > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife %40yahoogroups. com> > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife %40yahoogroups. > com>] On > > > Behalf Of Amber Berglund > > > > > Sent: Saturday, September 26, 2009 12:38 AM > > > > > To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com > > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife %40yahoogroups. com> > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife %40yahoogroups. com> > > > > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Free Aquarium > (4000 > > > Gallons) > > > > > > > > > > Too bad the weight limit for Fed ex is 150 > lbs > > > ;) > > > > > > > > > > Amber > > > > > > > > > > Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Amber, > > > > > > > > > > > > Did you check out the overnight prices > with > > > FEDEX? You do get a > > > > > > discount... > > > > > > right? > > > > > > > > > > > > Maybe you could call NASA and they > could > > > piggy-back it on that 767 > > > > > > that just > > > > > > flew the Space Shuttle from Cali to > Florida. > > > It has to head back > > > > to Cali > > > > > > anyhow so they might not mind making a > > > little detour up your way. > > > > > > > > > > > > I just checked that ad again... still > no > > > changes to it. > > > > > > > > > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > > > > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com > > > > <http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com> > > > > > <http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com <http://GoldLenny. > blogspot. com>> > > > > <http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com <http://GoldLenny. > blogspot. com> > > > > > <http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com <http://GoldLenny. > blogspot. com>>> > > > > > > (Links to any articles referenced in > above > > > reply are listed on the > > > > right > > > > > > side, alphabetically under Labels and > also > > > under Archives by Year, > > > > > Month) > > > > > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > > > > From: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com > > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife %40yahoogroups. com> > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife %40yahoogroups. > com> > > > > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife %40yahoogroups. com> > > > > > > [mailto:AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com > > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife %40yahoogroups. com> > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife %40yahoogroups. > com> > > > > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife %40yahoogroups. com>] On > > > > > > Behalf Of Steve Szabo > > > > > > Sent: Friday, September 25, 2009 6:22 > PM > > > > > > To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com > > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife %40yahoogroups. com> > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife %40yahoogroups. > com> > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife %40yahoogroups. > com> > > > > > > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Free > Aquarium > > > (4000 Gallons) > > > > > > > > > > > > Amber, > > > > > > > > > > > > Just wait to see what he says when you > tell > > > him you want it upstairs! > > > > > > <G> > > > > > > > > > > > > \\Steve// > > > > > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > > > > From: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com > > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife %40yahoogroups. com> > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife %40yahoogroups. > com> > > > > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife %40yahoogroups. com> > > > > > > [mailto:AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com > > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife %40yahoogroups. com> > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife %40yahoogroups. > com> > > > > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife %40yahoogroups. com>] > > > > > > On Behalf Of Amber Berglund > > > > > > Sent: Friday, September 25, 2009 11:29 > AM > > > > > > To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com > > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife %40yahoogroups. com> > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife %40yahoogroups. > com> > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife %40yahoogroups. > com> > > > > > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Free > Aquarium > > > (4000 Gallons) > > > > > > > > > > > > Well that's the thing Bill, I don't > want to > > > think about what the hubby > > > > > > will > > > > > > say when something like that arrived at > our > > > doorstep ;) LOL. > > > > > > I'm sure it wouldn't be really nice ;) > > > > > > > > > > > > Amber > > > > > > > > > > > > bill 1433 wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > May I please ask the obvious > questions > > > here? > > > > > > > Why doesn't someone simply email > this > > > guy and get the real > > > > answers and > > > > > > > particulars on this thing? > > > > > > > Also, since moving it is to be the > main > > > issue, what is it's over-all > > > > > > > size? He already gives the weight. > Come > > > on Gang, the old aquarium > > > > > > math! > > > > > > > L X W X H !!!!!!!!!!!! ! only you > don't > > > need to divide by the 231! > > > > > > > We already know the gallons! > > > > > > > > > > > > > > In other words------- --------- > will it > > > fit on a semi flat-bed or > > > > > > > tractor-trailer? > > > > > > > Height and width are important, > road > > > permits for wide or over-sized > > > > > > > load's, for bridge and overhead > > > clearance may be necessary! > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Finally for Amber? Don't let > these > > > folks discourage you! You can use > > > > > > > > > > > > > this thing on your front porch or > as > > > the porch for that matter! Its > > > > > > > just like moving any large > structure, > > > as long as your footings or > > > > > > > foundation will take the weight, > your > > > good to go! Just think of what > > > > > > > hubby will say when they wheel > this > > > thing in! > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Bill > > > > > > > > > > > > > > --- On Fri, 9/25/09, Lenny V. aka > > > GoldLenny <GoldLenny@gmail. com > > > > > > > <mailto:GoldLenny% 40gmail.com> > > > > > <mailto:GoldLenny% 40gmail.com> > > > > > > <mailto:GoldLenny% 40gmail.com> > > > > > > > > > > <mailto:GoldLenny% 40gmail.com> > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny > <GoldLenny@gmail. com > > > > > > > <mailto:GoldLenny% 40gmail.com> > > > > > <mailto:GoldLenny% 40gmail.com> > > > > > > <mailto:GoldLenny% 40gmail.com> > > > > > > > > > > <mailto:GoldLenny% 40gmail.com> > > > > > > > > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Free > > > Aquarium (4000 Gallons) > > > > > > > To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com > > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife %40yahoogroups. com> > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife %40yahoogroups. > com> > > > > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife %40yahoogroups. com> > > > > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife %40yahoogroups. com> > > > > > > > Date: Friday, September 25, 2009, > 10:53 > > > AM > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I kind of took this to mean > filtration. > > > I guess that there could > > > > have > > > > > > > > > > > > > been > > > > > > > a 4,000G glass/acrylic aquarium > slid > > > into the structure but I > > > > figured > > > > > > the > > > > > > > concrete was the sides on three > sides > > > and then the glass front panel > > > > > > but > > > > > > > maybe they set a 4,000G glass > aquarium > > > on top of the concrete stand > > > > > > > and then built up the sides around > it. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Whatever the case, folks should > email > > > this CL ad poster and tell > > > > them > > > > > > to > > > > > > > edit the ad if there is no "Free > > > Aquarium"... or maybe send this one > > > > > > > to Jay Leno for a stupid ad > segment. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > "Free Aquarium"... . (aquarium > not > > > included). LOL > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > > > > > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny. > blogspot. com > > > > <http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com> > > > > > <http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com <http://GoldLenny. > blogspot. com>> > > > > > > <http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com <http://GoldLenny. > blogspot. com> > > > > <http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com <http://GoldLenny. > blogspot. com>>> > > > > > > <http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com <http://GoldLenny. > blogspot. com> > > > > <http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com <http://GoldLenny. > blogspot. com>> > > > > > <http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com <http://GoldLenny. > blogspot. com> > > > > <http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com <http://GoldLenny. > blogspot. com>>>> > > > > > > > (Links to any articles referenced > in > > > above reply are listed on the > > > > > > right > > > > > > > side, alphabetically under Labels > and > > > also under Archives by Year, > > > > > > Month) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > > > > > From: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. > com > > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife %40yahoogroups. com> > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife %40yahoogroups. > com> > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife %40yahoogroups. > com> > > > > > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife %40yahoogroups. com> > > > > > > > [mailto:AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. > com > > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife %40yahoogroups. com> > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife %40yahoogroups. > com> > > > > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife %40yahoogroups. com> > > > > > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife %40yahoogroups. com>] On > Behalf Of > > > pam andress > > > > > > > Sent: Friday, September 25, 2009 > 12:49 > > > AM > > > > > > > To: aquaticlife@ yahoogroups. com > > > > > > > <mailto:aquaticlife %40yahoogroups. com> > > > > > <mailto:aquaticlife %40yahoogroups. > com> > > > > > > > > > <mailto:aquaticlife %40yahoogroups. com> > > > > > > > > > <mailto:aquaticlife %40yahoogroups. com> > > > > > > > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Free > > > Aquarium (4000 Gallons) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > That add states this: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Use it as an aquarium (you will > need to > > > provide all the parts needed > > > > > > as it > > > > > > > is just the concrete and stone) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Picture below shows sign with the > > > aquarium attached (aquarium not > > > > > > > included). > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Pam > > > > > > > > > > > > > > To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com > > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife %40yahoogroups. com> > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife %40yahoogroups. > com> > > > > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife %40yahoogroups. com> > > > > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife %40yahoogroups. com> > > > > > > > From: GoldLenny@gmail. com > > > <mailto:GoldLenny% 40gmail.com> > > > > <mailto:GoldLenny% 40gmail.com> > > > > > <mailto:GoldLenny% 40gmail.com> > > > > > > <mailto:GoldLenny% 40gmail.com> > > > > > > > Date: Thu, 24 Sep 2009 22:48:54 > -0500 > > > > > > > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Free > > > Aquarium (4000 Gallons) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Why are folks saying it's only a > stand > > > and not the aquarium? The > > > > > > photos > > > > > > > clearly show an aquarium structure > with > > > a glass front window and > > > > large > > > > > > Koi > > > > > > > swimming around inside of it. Yes, > it's > > > not an all glass > > > > aquarium but > > > > > > > it is an aquarium... made of > concrete, > > > with a glass window and > > > > quarry > > > > > > > slate siding. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > It looks like it might fit in the > back > > > of my largest pick-up > > > > truck... > > > > > > but > > > > > > > then I'll need a flat bed tow > truck to > > > tow my flattened pick-up > > > > truck. > > > > > > I > > > > > > > wonder how much a 1,000 mile tow > would > > > cost? ;-) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Oh.. one other thing.. is that a > leak > > > down the front below the glass > > > > > > > window and on the sides??? I see > that > > > the quarry slate appears to be > > > > > > > wet and algae covered so maybe > only the > > > top half of this > > > > structure is > > > > > > > the actual aquarium and the > concrete > > > sealant needs to be redone > > > > so it > > > > > > > will stop leaching/leaking water. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > One last thing... is that rolled > > > barb-wire on the top of this thing > > > > > > > that can be seen in the top right > > > image, on the left side of the > > > > roof > > > > > > > area? > > > > > > > Maybe the > > > > > > > neighborhood kids were going > > > swimming??? Heck, maybe Obama will buy > > > > > > this > > > > > > > thing and use it for Gitmo > terrorists. > > > Set it up at 1600 > > > > Pennsylvania > > > > > > > Avenue and sell tickets to the > tourists > > > to come see the terrorists. > > > > > > > ;-) Or > > > > > > maybe > > > > > > > house the latest crooked > politician in > > > the thing. Now, I'd pay > > > > to see > > > > > > > that.. > > > > > > > especially if my own local crook, > > > William "Dollar Bill" > > > > Jefferson, is > > > > > > > first!!! ;-) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > > > > > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny. > blogspot. com > > > > <http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com> > > > > > <http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com <http://GoldLenny. > blogspot. com>> > > > > > > <http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com <http://GoldLenny. > blogspot. com> > > > > <http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com <http://GoldLenny. > blogspot. com>>> > > > > > > > <http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com <http://GoldLenny. > blogspot. com> > > > > <http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com <http://GoldLenny. > blogspot. com>> > > > > > <http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com <http://GoldLenny. > blogspot. com> > > > > <http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com <http://GoldLenny. > blogspot. com>>>> > > > > > > (Links to any articles referenced in > > > > > > > above reply are listed on the > right > > > side, alphabetically under > > > > Labels > > > > > > > and also under Archives by Year, > > > Month) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > > > > > From: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. > com > > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife %40yahoogroups. com> > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife %40yahoogroups. > com> > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife %40yahoogroups. > com> > > > > > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife %40yahoogroups. com> > > > > > > > [mailto:AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. > com > > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife %40yahoogroups. com> > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife %40yahoogroups. > com> > > > > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife %40yahoogroups. com> > > > > > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife %40yahoogroups. com>] On > Behalf Of > > > pam andress > > > > > > > Sent: Thursday, September 24, 2009 > 8:09 > > > PM > > > > > > > To: aquaticlife@ yahoogroups. com > > > > > > > <mailto:aquaticlife %40yahoogroups. com> > > > > > <mailto:aquaticlife %40yahoogroups. > com> > > > > > > > > > <mailto:aquaticlife %40yahoogroups. com> > > > > > > > > > <mailto:aquaticlife %40yahoogroups. com> > > > > > > > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Free > > > Aquarium (4000 Gallons) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Plus it does NOT include the > aquarium. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Pam > > > > > > > > > > > > > > To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com > > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife %40yahoogroups. com> > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife %40yahoogroups. > com> > > > > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife %40yahoogroups. com> > > > > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife %40yahoogroups. com> > > > > > > > From: warrenprint@ yahoo.com > > > <mailto:warrenprint %40yahoo. com> > > > > <mailto:warrenprint %40yahoo. com> > > > > > <mailto:warrenprint %40yahoo. com> > > > > > > <mailto:warrenprint %40yahoo. > com> > > > > > > > Date: Thu, 24 Sep 2009 17:54:16 > -0700 > > > > > > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Free > > > Aquarium (4000 Gallons) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Hi \\Steve// > > > > > > > > > > > > > > My favorite part of the ad? No, > not the > > > pictures---this line: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > "This unit was a showplace and > would > > > make a great backyard focal > > > > > > point" > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Now anyone with any sense of > proportion > > > would be able to see > > > > that for > > > > > > > some, this thing could be a > back-yard! > > > He quotes capacity at 4,000 > > > > > > > gallons. > > > > > > What > > > > > > > do ya figure for outside > dimensions? > > > now where did I put that > > > > back-hoe > > > > > > > license. Be coming down I-95, I > could > > > swing over and pick you > > > > up? <g> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Bill > > > > > > > > > > > > > > --- On Thu, 9/24/09, Steve Szabo > <steve@familyszabo. com > > > > > > > <mailto:steve% 40familyszabo. com> > > > > > <mailto:steve% 40familyszabo. com> > > > > > > <mailto:steve% 40familyszabo. > com> > > > > > > > > > > <mailto:steve% 40familyszabo. com>> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > From: Steve Szabo > <steve@familyszabo. com > > > > > > > <mailto:steve% 40familyszabo. com> > > > > > <mailto:steve% 40familyszabo. com> > > > > > > <mailto:steve% 40familyszabo. > com> > > > > > > <mailto:steve% 40familyszabo. > com>> > > > > > > > Subject: [AquaticLife] Free > Aquarium > > > (4000 Gallons) > > > > > > > To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com > > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife %40yahoogroups. com> > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife %40yahoogroups. > com> > > > > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife %40yahoogroups. com> > > > > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife %40yahoogroups. com> > > > > > > > Date: Thursday, September 24, > 2009, > > > 8:34 PM > > > > > > > > > > > > > > This is for those of you who live > near, > > > I think, Orlando, FL, > > > > but I am > > > > > > not > > > > > > > sure where Sanford, Florida, > really > > > is. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > You do need to be able to move > it. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > http://orlando. craigslist. > org/zip/13772868 78.html > > > > <http://orlando. craigslist. org/zip/13772868 > 78.html> > > > > > <http://orlando. craigslist. org/zip/13772868 78.html > > > > <http://orlando. craigslist. org/zip/13772868 > 78.html>> > > > > > > <http://orlando. craigslist. > org/zip/13772868 78.html > > > > <http://orlando. craigslist. org/zip/13772868 > 78.html> > > > > > <http://orlando. craigslist. org/zip/13772868 78.html > > > > <http://orlando. craigslist. org/zip/13772868 > 78.html>>> > > > > > > > <http://orlando. craigslist. > org/zip/13772868 78.html > > > > <http://orlando. craigslist. org/zip/13772868 > 78.html> > > > > > <http://orlando. craigslist. org/zip/13772868 78.html > > > > <http://orlando. craigslist. org/zip/13772868 > 78.html>> > > > > > > <http://orlando. craigslist. > org/zip/13772868 78.html > > > > <http://orlando. craigslist. org/zip/13772868 > 78.html> > > > > > <http://orlando. craigslist. org/zip/13772868 78.html > > > > <http://orlando. craigslist. org/zip/13772868 > 78.html>>>> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > \\Steve// > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ------------ --------- --------- > ------ > > > > > > > > > > > > Please, DELETE this line and > EVERYTHING > > > below it when replying, > > > > > Thank You. > > > > > > > > > 74/`7.88.><( (((:>.74/ `7.88.74/ > `7.8><((( (:> > > > 8.74/`7.8. , > > > > .74/`7..><(( ((:> > > > > > > PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, > DELETE all > > > TEXT that is NOT > > > > > important to > > > > > > the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC > of the > > > original message MODIFY the > > > > > > SUBJECT > > > > > > LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: > old > > > subject)" <- > > > > > > > > > <:((((><.74/ `7.88.74/ `7.8<:((( > (><8.74/` 7.8. > > > , > > > > .74/`7..<:(( ((><74/`7. 88. > > > > > > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP > in > > > this matter. > > > > > > > > > > > > If you do not want all of the groups > emails, > > > instead of > > > > > unsubscribing, you > > > > > > can change your delivery option by > clicking > > > on "Edit My Membership" > > > > > on the > > > > > > home page. > > > > > > > > > > > > Or e-mail aquaticlife- digest@yahoogrou > ps.com > > > > > > > <mailto:aquaticlife -digest%40yahoog > roups.com> > > > > > > > > <mailto:aquaticlife -digest%40yahoog roups.com> > > > > > > > > > <mailto:aquaticlife -digest%40yahoog roups.com> > to > > > receive the digest, > > > > > which > > > > > > includes up to 25 posts at a time in a > > > single email > > > > > > > > > > > > Or email aquaticlife- nomail@yahoogrou > ps.com > > > > > > > <mailto:aquaticlife -nomail%40yahoog > roups.com> > > > > > > > > <mailto:aquaticlife -nomail%40yahoog roups.com> > > > > > > > > > <mailto:aquaticlife -nomail%40yahoog roups.com> > for the > > > No E-Mail option > > > > > > where > > > > > > you will still be able to read messages > on > > > the group and post replies. > > > > > > > > > > > > Or email aquaticlife- normal@yahoogrou > ps.com > > > > > > > <mailto:aquaticlife -normal%40yahoog > roups.com> > > > > > > > > <mailto:aquaticlife -normal%40yahoog roups.com> > > > > > > > > > <mailto:aquaticlife -normal%40yahoog roups.com> > to > > > receive individual > > > > > > e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ------------ --------- --------- ------ > > > > > > > > > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING > below it > > > when replying, > > > > Thank You. > > > > > > > > > ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> > > > ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> > > > > > PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all > TEXT > > > that is NOT > > > > > important to the reply & if CHANGING > the > > > TOPIC of the original message > > > > > MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new > subject > > > (was re: old subject)" <- > > > > > > > > > <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. > > > , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. > > > > > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in > this > > > matter. > > > > > > > > > > If you do not want all of the groups > emails, > > > instead of unsubscribing, > > > > > you can change your delivery option by > clicking > > > on "Edit My > > > > > Membership" on the home page. > > > > > > > > > > Or e-mail aquaticlife- digest@yahoogrou > ps.com > > > > > > > <mailto:aquaticlife -digest%40yahoog > roups.com> > > > > > > > > <mailto:aquaticlife -digest%40yahoog roups.com> > to > > > receive the digest, > > > > > which includes up to 25 posts at a time in > a > > > single email > > > > > > > > > > Or email aquaticlife- nomail@yahoogrou > ps.com > > > > > > > <mailto:aquaticlife -nomail%40yahoog > roups.com> > > > > > > > > <mailto:aquaticlife -nomail%40yahoog roups.com> > for the > > > No E-Mail option > > > > > where you will still be able to read > messages on > > > the group and post > > > > > replies. > > > > > > > > > > Or email aquaticlife- normal@yahoogrou > ps.com > > > > > > > <mailto:aquaticlife -normal%40yahoog > roups.com> > > > > > > > > <mailto:aquaticlife -normal%40yahoog roups.com> > to > > > receive individual > > > > > e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ------------ --------- --------- ------ > > > > > > > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it > when > > > replying, Thank You. > > > > > > > > ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> > > > ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> > > > > PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT > that > > > is NOT > > > > important to the reply & if CHANGING the > TOPIC of > > > the original message > > > > MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject > (was > > > re: old subject)" <- > > > > > > > > <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. > > > , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. > > > > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this > matter. > > > > > > > > If you do not want all of the groups emails, > instead > > > of unsubscribing, > > > > you can change your delivery option by clicking > on > > > "Edit My > > > > Membership" on the home page. > > > > > > > > Or e-mail aquaticlife- digest@yahoogrou ps.com > > > > > > > <mailto:aquaticlife -digest%40yahoog > roups.com> to > > > receive the digest, > > > > which includes up to 25 posts at a time in a > single > > > email > > > > > > > > Or email aquaticlife- nomail@yahoogrou ps.com > > > > > > > <mailto:aquaticlife -nomail%40yahoog > roups.com> > > > for the No E-Mail option > > > > where you will still be able to read messages on > the > > > group and post > > > > replies. > > > > > > > > Or email aquaticlife- normal@yahoogrou ps.com > > > > > > > <mailto:aquaticlife -normal%40yahoog > roups.com> to > > > receive individual > > > > e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ------------ --------- --------- ------ > > > > > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when > > > replying, Thank You. > > > > ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> > > > ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> > > > PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that > is > > > NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC > of > > > the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> > i.e. "new > > > subject (was re: old subject)" <- > > > > <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. > > > , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. > > > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. > > > > > > If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead > of > > > unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by > > > clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the home page.  > > > > > > Or e-mail aquaticlife- digest@yahoogrou ps.com > > > to receive the digest, which includes up to 25 posts > at a > > > time in a single email > > > > > > Or email aquaticlife- nomail@yahoogrou ps.com > > > for the No E-Mail option where you will still be able > to > > > read messages on the group and post replies. > > > > > > Or email aquaticlife- normal@yahoogrou ps.com > > > to receive individual e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > > > >     mailto:AquaticLife- fullfeatured@ yahoogroups. > com > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >       > >     >     >     >       >     >     > > > > >     > > > > >     >     > > >     >     >     > > > > >       > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > ------------------------------------ > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when > replying, Thank You. > ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> > ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> > PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is > NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of > the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new > subject (was re: old subject)" <- > <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. > , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. > > If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of > unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by > clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the home page.  > > Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com > to receive the digest, which includes up to 25 posts at a > time in a single email > > Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com > for the No E-Mail option where you will still be able to > read messages on the group and post replies. > > Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com > to receive individual e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links > > >     mailto:AquaticLife-fullfeatured@yahoogroups.com > > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 43610	From: Cee Jaye	Date: 9/27/2009
Subject: Rocks

What type of rocks are best for my Oscar's tank? Any "aquarium" rocks? Can you use "real" rocks to decorate a fish tank, too?? Thanks, Tara [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 43611	From: bill 1433	Date: 9/27/2009
Subject: Re: Rocks

Hi Tara, When it comes to the "Oscar", the least amount of things you put in the tank the better. You will find that they love to move gravel sometimes to pushing it all to one side! Rocks may either damage the tank or the Oscar him or herself. When I had them I had to put bricks on top of their tanks glass covers because they loved to bang it! They are great fish and a ton of fun but a chore to keep up with. Water changes and tank maintenance are extremely important for Oscars.   Its not at all hard or difficult but you must be willing to take the time with them but rest assured, when you do, you will be well rewarded!  They are great people fish.  They are demanding to space and a single fish does do best in a standard 75-gallon tank, at 48 x 18 x 20 something.  A standard 55-gallon will work for a while but you will soon notice that Oscar will have a time of it trying to turn around with its width of only 12 1/2 inches. With Oscar the tank rules are simple; there is no such thing as a "big enough tank" the more room you give Oscar the more they will grow and give many years pleasure to their owners.   Bill --- On Sun, 9/27/09, Cee Jaye <CeeJayee@...> wrote: > From: Cee Jaye <CeeJayee@...> > Subject: [AquaticLife] Rocks > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Date: Sunday, September 27, 2009, 12:05 PM > What type of rocks are best for my > Oscar's tank? Any "aquarium" rocks? Can > you use "real" rocks to decorate a fish tank, too?? > > Thanks, > Tara > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > ------------------------------------ > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when > replying, Thank You. > ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> > ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> > PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is > NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of > the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new > subject (was re: old subject)" <- > <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. > , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. > > If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of > unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by > clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the home page.  > > Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com > to receive the digest, which includes up to 25 posts at a > time in a single email > > Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com > for the No E-Mail option where you will still be able to > read messages on the group and post replies. > > Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com > to receive individual e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links > > >     mailto:AquaticLife-fullfeatured@yahoogroups.com > > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 43612	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 9/27/2009
Subject: Re: Free Aquarium (4000 Gallons)/so

Harry, That is an interesting question. First, would it be indoors or outdoors? The options would vary depending on this placement. Let us assume outdoors. Next question would be what are your year round temperatures? Lenny would have more options in LA than Ray does in NJ, and, certainly, a ME resident would have different options than either of them (did you know that they have already had frost in northern ME?). Next question would be what can I plant in this aquarium. Not as straight forward as one would think. Although we do not know the depth of this aquarium, it is certainly deeper than those we normally deal with. Most of the plants we have access to are relatively shallow water plants. Even water lilies that one would certainly be tempted to put in have depth limits for a successful growth season. There are ways to get around this depth limit, and there are certainly plants that could handle the depth, but one would need to study that problem. Fancy goldfish would be a good option in cooler climates, better than koi. Some are now probably thinking "Huh?". The reason for this is that koi are meant to be viewed from the top. Which is not much of an option with this particular setup. There is a viewing pane in the "front" of the structure, which is why the fancy goldfish would be a better choice since they are meant to be viewed from the side. You would be able to house about 120 goldfish. You could think about native fish, but you'd need to be a diehard native lover since most of them only color up during mating season. And I think most people would prefer more than fish that are only silvery or olive drab for most of the year. You could place a lot of the smaller tropicals in there, but you would need to worry about removing them with the onset of temperatures lower than the fish could withstand (at least get most of them), unless you want to go to the expense of heating the water over the course of the cooler weather. Assuming that I could aquascape it well, I'd probably go with a mixture of large & small South American fish and stock it lightly, knowing that if the fish like the conditions, they will certainly go forth and multiply. \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of harry perry Sent: Sunday, September 27, 2009 2:47 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Free Aquarium (4000 Gallons)/so Hey Gang, How would you stock this 4000 gal. tank?. Remember, be careful, no over sized fish. Harry --- On Sun, 9/27/09, bill 1433 <warrenprint@...> wrote: From: bill 1433 <warrenprint@...> Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Free Aquarium (4000 Gallons) To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Date: Sunday, September 27, 2009, 2:36 PM   Hi Amber,   To be truthful, and perfect honest with you, I think it would all depend on if "You've been a good little girl this past year"!   Bill --- On Sun, 9/27/09, Amber Berglund <arberglund@gmail. com> wrote: > From: Amber Berglund <arberglund@gmail. com> > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Free Aquarium (4000 Gallons) > To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com > Date: Sunday, September 27, 2009, 2:22 PM > Well I hope Santa doesn't put > something that heavy on my roof, I may not > have a home afterwards ;) LOL > > Amber > > bill 1433 wrote: > >  > > > > No Worries Amber! > >  > > If you were to contact your neighborhood Air National > Guard, they > > could handle this easily though the use of a KC-130 or > Globe Master > > C-5.  Of course, provisions would have to be made > upon delivery for > > transport from their base to your home.  They > would most likely handle > > this entire operation as I training exercise, after > all they move > > tanks all the time, but you would be made responsible > for all > > fuel-cost incurred!  Perhaps your local congress > men could step in and > > pave the way so to speak?  That is, unless you > spring for a direct > > aerial drop by helicopter right to your > drive-way.  Just think of it!  > > What a Christmas Present it would make!  Why it > would be just like > > Santa landing on your roof! > >  > > Bill > > > > --- On Sun, 9/27/09, Amber Berglund <arberglund@gmail. com > > > <mailto:arberglund% 40gmail.com> > wrote: > > > > From: Amber Berglund <arberglund@gmail. com > > > <mailto:arberglund% 40gmail.com> > > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Free Aquarium (4000 > Gallons) > > To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com > <mailto:AquaticLife %40yahoogroups. com> > > Date: Sunday, September 27, 2009, 1:29 PM > > > > I'm in Alaska Steve we don't have fed ex trucking up > here, they'd have > > to swim ;) LOL. > > Everything comes into our island on a plane, so > therefor it's all > > limited to 150 lbs. > > > > Amber > > > > Steve Szabo wrote: > > > > > > > > > Not for Fed Ex freight. > > > > > > \\Steve// > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > From: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com > > > <mailto:AquaticLife %40yahoogroups. com> > > > <mailto:AquaticLife %40yahoogroups. com> > > > [mailto:AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com > > > <mailto:AquaticLife %40yahoogroups. com> > > > <mailto:AquaticLife %40yahoogroups. com>] On > Behalf Of Amber Berglund > > > Sent: Saturday, September 26, 2009 12:38 AM > > > To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com > > > <mailto:AquaticLife %40yahoogroups. com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife %40yahoogroups. com> > > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Free Aquarium (4000 > Gallons) > > > > > > Too bad the weight limit for Fed ex is 150 lbs > ;) > > > > > > Amber > > > > > > Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > Amber, > > > > > > > > Did you check out the overnight prices with > FEDEX? You do get a > > > > discount... > > > > right? > > > > > > > > Maybe you could call NASA and they could > piggy-back it on that 767 > > > > that just > > > > flew the Space Shuttle from Cali to Florida. > It has to head back > > to Cali > > > > anyhow so they might not mind making a > little detour up your way. > > > > > > > > I just checked that ad again... still no > changes to it. > > > > > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com > > <http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com> > > > <http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com <http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com>> > > <http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com <http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com> > > > <http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com <http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com>>> > > > > (Links to any articles referenced in above > reply are listed on the > > right > > > > side, alphabetically under Labels and also > under Archives by Year, > > > Month) > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > > From: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com > > > <mailto:AquaticLife %40yahoogroups. com> > > > <mailto:AquaticLife %40yahoogroups. com> > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife %40yahoogroups. com> > > > > [mailto:AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com > > > <mailto:AquaticLife %40yahoogroups. com> > > > <mailto:AquaticLife %40yahoogroups. com> > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife %40yahoogroups. com>] On > > > > Behalf Of Steve Szabo > > > > Sent: Friday, September 25, 2009 6:22 PM > > > > To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com > > > <mailto:AquaticLife %40yahoogroups. com> > > > <mailto:AquaticLife %40yahoogroups. com> > > > <mailto:AquaticLife %40yahoogroups. com> > > > > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Free Aquarium > (4000 Gallons) > > > > > > > > Amber, > > > > > > > > Just wait to see what he says when you tell > him you want it upstairs! > > > > <G> > > > > > > > > \\Steve// > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > > From: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com > > > <mailto:AquaticLife %40yahoogroups. com> > > > <mailto:AquaticLife %40yahoogroups. com> > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife %40yahoogroups. com> > > > > [mailto:AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com > > > <mailto:AquaticLife %40yahoogroups. com> > > > <mailto:AquaticLife %40yahoogroups. com> > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife %40yahoogroups. com>] > > > > On Behalf Of Amber Berglund > > > > Sent: Friday, September 25, 2009 11:29 AM > > > > To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com > > > <mailto:AquaticLife %40yahoogroups. com> > > > <mailto:AquaticLife %40yahoogroups. com> > > > <mailto:AquaticLife %40yahoogroups. com> > > > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Free Aquarium > (4000 Gallons) > > > > > > > > Well that's the thing Bill, I don't want to > think about what the hubby > > > > will > > > > say when something like that arrived at our > doorstep ;) LOL. > > > > I'm sure it wouldn't be really nice ;) > > > > > > > > Amber > > > > > > > > bill 1433 wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > May I please ask the obvious questions > here? > > > > > Why doesn't someone simply email this > guy and get the real > > answers and > > > > > particulars on this thing? > > > > > Also, since moving it is to be the main > issue, what is it's over-all > > > > > size? He already gives the weight. Come > on Gang, the old aquarium > > > > math! > > > > > L X W X H !!!!!!!!!!!! ! only you don't > need to divide by the 231! > > > > > We already know the gallons! > > > > > > > > > > In other words------- --------- will it > fit on a semi flat-bed or > > > > > tractor-trailer? > > > > > Height and width are important, road > permits for wide or over-sized > > > > > load's, for bridge and overhead > clearance may be necessary! > > > > > > > > > > Finally for Amber? Don't let these > folks discourage you! You can use > > > > > > > > > this thing on your front porch or as > the porch for that matter! Its > > > > > just like moving any large structure, > as long as your footings or > > > > > foundation will take the weight, your > good to go! Just think of what > > > > > hubby will say when they wheel this > thing in! > > > > > > > > > > Bill > > > > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 43613	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 9/27/2009
Subject: Re: Free Aquarium (4000 Gallons)/so

I'd put a mermaid in it. ;-) Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of harry perry Sent: Sunday, September 27, 2009 1:47 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Free Aquarium (4000 Gallons)/so Hey Gang, How would you stock this 4000 gal. tank?. Remember, be careful, no over sized fish. Harry --- On Sun, 9/27/09, bill 1433 <warrenprint@...> wrote: From: bill 1433 <warrenprint@...> Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Free Aquarium (4000 Gallons) To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Date: Sunday, September 27, 2009, 2:36 PM Hi Amber,   To be truthful, and perfect honest with you, I think it would all depend on if "You've been a good little girl this past year"!   Bill --- On Sun, 9/27/09, Amber Berglund <arberglund@gmail. com> wrote: > From: Amber Berglund <arberglund@gmail. com> > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Free Aquarium (4000 Gallons) > To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com > Date: Sunday, September 27, 2009, 2:22 PM > Well I hope Santa doesn't put > something that heavy on my roof, I may not > have a home afterwards ;) LOL > > Amber > > bill 1433 wrote: > >  > > > > No Worries Amber! > >  > > If you were to contact your neighborhood Air National > Guard, they > > could handle this easily though the use of a KC-130 or > Globe Master > > C-5.  Of course, provisions would have to be made > upon delivery for > > transport from their base to your home.  They > would most likely handle > > this entire operation as I training exercise, after > all they move > > tanks all the time, but you would be made responsible > for all > > fuel-cost incurred!  Perhaps your local congress > men could step in and > > pave the way so to speak?  That is, unless you > spring for a direct > > aerial drop by helicopter right to your > drive-way.  Just think of it! > > What a Christmas Present it would make!  Why it > would be just like > > Santa landing on your roof! > >  > > Bill > > > > --- On Sun, 9/27/09, Amber Berglund <arberglund@gmail. com > > > <mailto:arberglund% 40gmail.com> > wrote: > > > > From: Amber Berglund <arberglund@gmail. com > > > <mailto:arberglund% 40gmail.com> > > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Free Aquarium (4000 > Gallons) > > To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com > <mailto:AquaticLife %40yahoogroups. com> > > Date: Sunday, September 27, 2009, 1:29 PM > > > > I'm in Alaska Steve we don't have fed ex trucking up > here, they'd have > > to swim ;) LOL. > > Everything comes into our island on a plane, so > therefor it's all > > limited to 150 lbs. > > > > Amber > > > > Steve Szabo wrote: > > > > > > > > > Not for Fed Ex freight. > > > > > > \\Steve// > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > From: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com > > > <mailto:AquaticLife %40yahoogroups. com> > > > <mailto:AquaticLife %40yahoogroups. com> > > > [mailto:AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com > > > <mailto:AquaticLife %40yahoogroups. com> > > > <mailto:AquaticLife %40yahoogroups. com>] On > Behalf Of Amber Berglund > > > Sent: Saturday, September 26, 2009 12:38 AM > > > To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com > > > <mailto:AquaticLife %40yahoogroups. com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife %40yahoogroups. com> > > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Free Aquarium (4000 > Gallons) > > > > > > Too bad the weight limit for Fed ex is 150 lbs > ;) > > > > > > Amber > > > > > > Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > Amber, > > > > > > > > Did you check out the overnight prices with > FEDEX? You do get a > > > > discount... > > > > right? > > > > > > > > Maybe you could call NASA and they could > piggy-back it on that 767 > > > > that just > > > > flew the Space Shuttle from Cali to Florida. > It has to head back > > to Cali > > > > anyhow so they might not mind making a > little detour up your way. > > > > > > > > I just checked that ad again... still no > changes to it. > > > > > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com > > <http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com> > > > <http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com <http://GoldLenny. blogspot. > > > com>> > > <http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com <http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com> > > > <http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com <http://GoldLenny. blogspot. > > > com>>> > > > > (Links to any articles referenced in above > reply are listed on the > > right > > > > side, alphabetically under Labels and also > under Archives by Year, > > > Month)

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 43614	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 9/27/2009
Subject: Re: Rocks

I'm guessing you're talking about a substrate gravel... right? If yes, I like natural looking stuff. You can buy Pea Gravel a LOT cheaper than the fancy colored aquarium substrate. You don't want a deep substrate as that would just be a trap for more detritus so only go with about 1/2" to 1" of gravel. To know how much to buy, measure the footprint of the tank (for example 12" x 48" for a standard 55G footprint), so for a 1" layer, you would need 576 cubic inches of gravel (12" x 48" x 1"). They should have this type of measurement on a pre-packaged bag of gravel but if you have a garden center nearby that sells pea gravel in bulk, you can bring your own box and get the proper amount at an even lower cost. You could measure your box and a 12" x 12" x 4" box, filled to the top would hold 576 cubic inches. Once again, all of this is predicated on a 55G 12" x 48" footprint so you would have to measure your tank's footprint to know how much you need. I see an online ad for Lowe's that says 0.5 cubic feet of pea gravel for $4.18. A cubic foot is 12" x 12" x 12" so a 1/2 cu. ft. would be 12" x 12" x 6" = 864 cubic inches which is more than you need since you only need 576 cubic inches for a 1" layer. http://www.lowes.com/lowes/lkn?action=productDetail&productId=92130-66882-92 130&lpage=none&cm_mmc=search_yahooshopping-_-Feeds-_-September1409-_-Evergre en%200.5%20cu.%20ft.%20Pea%20Gravel Ace Hardware has a 50 pound bag for $5.49. That's way more than you would need though unless you do gardening and want to use the extra gravel for that purpose... or to keep for when you get more tanks. ;-) http://www.acehardware.com/product/index.jsp?productId=3092131&kw=gravel&ori gkw=gravel&searchId=43897646354 If you have one or two BIGGER rocks that you want to use as display rocks or a piece of driftwood, those would be OK too but since an Oscar is a BIG fish, you don't want to crowd the tank too much. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Cee Jaye Sent: Sunday, September 27, 2009 11:05 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Rocks What type of rocks are best for my Oscar's tank? Any "aquarium" rocks? Can you use "real" rocks to decorate a fish tank, too?? Thanks, Tara

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 43615	From: sevenspringss@wmconnect.com	Date: 9/27/2009
Subject: Re: Free Aquarium (4000 Gallons)/so

\\Steve//, If I had that "aquarium," I might just stock it with trout and use it as a fishing pond, after all, it's bigger than my present 3200 gallon pond <G>. Or, I could stock it with Peacock Cichlids (or go the Rift Lake route with Boulengerochromis) but I'd have a heck of a time when it would be time for me to bring the fish indoors. Tempting though (LOL). Ray [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 43616	From: Deenerz@aol.com	Date: 9/27/2009
Subject: Re: Free Aquarium (4000 Gallons)/so

Hi Steve, I would probably go with some cichlids and other fish from Uruguay. They have cool water cichlids there that would be compatible with my Northern California weather. I have a 400 gallon steel tub that I would like to do this with some time. I used the tub before but had lost all the fish. I think something leeches, zinc perhaps, and kills off all the fish after a short period of time. I have been looking at paint on liners or coatings but they are a little too pricey for my wallet at the moment. -Mike (S.F. East Bay) Assuming that I could aquascape it well, I'd probably go with a mixture of large & small South American fish and stock it lightly, knowing that if the fish like the conditions, they will certainly go forth and multiply. \\Steve// -

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 43617	From: Deenerz@aol.com	Date: 9/27/2009
Subject: Re: Free Aquarium (4000 Gallons)/so

Another one? What would you do with two? -Mike -----Original Message----- From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@...> To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Sun, Sep 27, 2009 1:12 pm Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Free Aquarium (4000 Gallons)/so   I'd put a mermaid in it. ;-) Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month)

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 43618	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 9/27/2009
Subject: Re: Free Aquarium (4000 Gallons)/so

You never can have too many mermaids! ;-) Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Deenerz@... Sent: Sunday, September 27, 2009 4:54 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Free Aquarium (4000 Gallons)/so Another one? What would you do with two? -Mike -----Original Message----- From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@...> To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Sun, Sep 27, 2009 1:12 pm Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Free Aquarium (4000 Gallons)/so   I'd put a mermaid in it. ;-) Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month)

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 43619	From: Menagerie_Manager	Date: 9/27/2009
Subject: Re: Free Aquarium (4000 Gallons)/so

Well, since I don't plan on getting more fish, the three goldies and their white cloud roomies would think they'd died and gone to Heaven and I could go forever between 1,000 gallon PWCs. Now if it were made of transparent aluminum, I'd rescue a mated pair of orcas and save the future of Earth. DebR and the Three Goldfish (CB, Lucille, and Raven)

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 43620	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 9/27/2009
Subject: Re: Free Aquarium (4000 Gallons)/so

Use a two-part epoxy paint. They come in many colors nowadays, including clear. http://www.homedepot.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/THDCoordinatingItemsView? productId=100014550&N=10000003_90401_530103&langId=-1&storeId=10051&catalogI d=10053 The Tan kit, maybe mixing only 1/2 (or less of the two parts) with ALL of the color chips in it would simulate Pea Gravel. This next one has a tintable base paint so you could make it what ever color you want, except for pink and green polka-dots. You'd have to paint them on first and use the clear product. http://www.acehardware.com/product/index.jsp?productId=2804197&kw=epoxy+pain t&origkw=epoxy+paint&searchId=43903788474 With a total of 2 gallons, you would have enough left over to paint your porch or part of your garage too. ;-) I use to have a page in my favorites with a company that sold lots of colors but I guess with the tintable product from Rustoleum, there's no need to make a bunch of pre-mixed colors. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Deenerz@... Sent: Sunday, September 27, 2009 4:53 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Free Aquarium (4000 Gallons)/so Hi Steve, I would probably go with some cichlids and other fish from Uruguay. They have cool water cichlids there that would be compatible with my Northern California weather. I have a 400 gallon steel tub that I would like to do this with some time. I used the tub before but had lost all the fish. I think something leeches, zinc perhaps, and kills off all the fish after a short period of time. I have been looking at paint on liners or coatings but they are a little too pricey for my wallet at the moment. -Mike (S.F. East Bay) Assuming that I could aquascape it well, I'd probably go with a mixture of large & small South American fish and stock it lightly, knowing that if the fish like the conditions, they will certainly go forth and multiply. \\Steve//

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 43621	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 9/27/2009
Subject: Re: Free Aquarium (4000 Gallons)/so

Somebody has been watching too many reruns of Star Trek IV: The Voyage Home. Oh wait.. those were humpback whales in that one. LOL Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Menagerie_Manager Sent: Sunday, September 27, 2009 5:13 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Free Aquarium (4000 Gallons)/so Well, since I don't plan on getting more fish, the three goldies and their white cloud roomies would think they'd died and gone to Heaven and I could go forever between 1,000 gallon PWCs. Now if it were made of transparent aluminum, I'd rescue a mated pair of orcas and save the future of Earth. DebR and the Three Goldfish (CB, Lucille, and Raven)

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 43622	From: gailsugarpants	Date: 9/27/2009
Subject: Re: Rocks for your aquarium

Thanks, all of your links were really helpful. And my tank is acutally quite the mix, but for the most part I have Cichlids. I have a Severum, a Blood Parrot, tiger barb school, cory catfish, CAE, etc. -gail --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@...> wrote: > > Remind of us your tap/source water parameters and tank parameters and what > kind of fish. I'm thinking you have goldfish but I quit trying to remember > everybody's tanks a long time ago. > > Here's a few articles about rocks and aquariums. Some of them do give > slightly conflicting opinions about some of the rock types but this usually > depends on water parameters. > http://www.skepticalaquarist.com/docs/aquascaping/rocks.shtml > http://www.uniquaria.com/index.php/articles/6-misc/21-aquarium-safe-rocks > http://www.thekrib.com/TankHardware/rocks.html > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right > side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On > Behalf Of gailsugarpants > Sent: Friday, September 25, 2009 3:19 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Subject: [AquaticLife] Rocks for your aquarium > > So, live near the beautiful Rocky Mountains and I was considering going on a > hike with the kids and looking for some cool rocks for the aquarium. It's > Freshwater. Any suggestions on what to look for and maybe what to avoid? > I think we might be able to find some kinds of slate, granite and some > limestone. > Any suggestions or cautions? > > thanks, > Gail >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 43623	From: Deenerz@aol.com	Date: 9/27/2009
Subject: Re: Free Aquarium (4000 Gallons)/so

Lenny, You are a great guy, I don't care what your ex says about you ;) Thanks for the information, I happen to have a Home Depot tripped planned soon to upgrade my air supply system for the fish room. I will have to go check out the products you provided links for. Or Ace Hardware, they have the canopy pieces I need for my canopy for Burning Man 2010. Thanks Lenny, -Mike -----Original Message----- From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@...> To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Sun, Sep 27, 2009 3:38 pm Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Free Aquarium (4000 Gallons)/so Use a two-part epoxy paint. They come in many colors nowadays, including clear. http://www.homedepot.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/THDCoordinatingItemsView? productId=100014550&N=10000003_90401_530103&langId=-1&storeId=10051&catal ogI d=10053 The Tan kit, maybe mixing only 1/2 (or less of the two parts) with ALL of the color chips in it would simulate Pea Gravel. This next one has a tintable base paint so you could make it what ever color you want, except for pink and green polka-dots. You'd have to paint them on first and use the clear product. http://www.acehardware.com/product/index.jsp?productId=2804197&kw=epoxy+pain t&origkw=epoxy+paint&searchId=43903788474 With a total of 2 gallons, you would have enough left over to paint your porch or part of your garage too. ;-) I use to have a page in my favorites with a company that sold lots of colors but I guess with the tintable product from Rustoleum, there's no need to make a bunch of pre-mixed colors. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Deenerz@... Sent: Sunday, September 27, 2009 4:53 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Free Aquarium (4000 Gallons)/so Hi Steve, I would probably go with some cichlids and other fish from Uruguay. They have cool water cichlids there that would be compatible with my Northern California weather. I have a 400 gallon steel tub that I would like to do this with some time. I used the tub before but had lost all the fish. I think something leeches, zinc perhaps, and kills off all the fish after a short period of time. I have been looking at paint on liners or coatings but they are a little too pricey for my wallet at the moment. -

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 43624	From: Garry Peak	Date: 9/27/2009
Subject: Jack Dempseys

Hey guys...I usually just lurk, but have been a member for a long time. Question....I have a 55gal..I know I will will have to get something bigger down the track....I have 2 Jack Dempseys in there at present, that's all, one is about 3", and the other is 2.5"...they are both growing like weeds. What, if anything, can I put in there with them? Something for cleanup, and maybe a little algae control?. What other fish can I put, just to fill the tank out a little, that can complete with the Dempseys and not get killed? Don't want a common Pleco that gets huge, how about maybe one that gets no more than 6-8 inches? Any ideas? I don't currently have any plants in the tank, just large pieces of driftwood & some large rocks. I guess I would do some redecorating, so everybody could mark new territories out...My water parameters are smack on Neutral, ph is 7.5, and water is maybe a tad on the hard side hard....no problems so far, has been up and running for nearly 3 months, only get a little algae, which I scape off weekly Thanks in advance!!

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 43625	From: bill 1433	Date: 9/27/2009
Subject: Re: Jack Dempseys

Hi Garry,   Not to be a wise guy but you do understand why they are called "Jack Dempseys", don't you?   Bill  --- On Sun, 9/27/09, Garry Peak <peakie_au@...> wrote: From: Garry Peak <peakie_au@...> Subject: [AquaticLife] Jack Dempseys To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Date: Sunday, September 27, 2009, 7:37 PM Hey guys...I usually just lurk, but have been a member for a long time. Question....I have a 55gal..I know I will will have to get something bigger down the track....I have 2 Jack Dempseys in there at present, that's all, one is about 3", and the other is 2.5"...they are both growing like weeds. What, if anything, can I put in there with them? Something for cleanup, and maybe a little algae control?. What other fish can I put, just to fill the tank out a little, that can complete with the Dempseys and not get killed? Don't want a common Pleco that gets huge, how about maybe one that gets no more than 6-8 inches? Any ideas? I don't currently have any plants in the tank, just large pieces of driftwood & some large rocks. I guess I would do some redecorating, so everybody could mark new territories out...My water parameters are smack on Neutral, ph is 7.5, and water is maybe a tad on the hard side hard....no problems so far, has been up and running for nearly 3 months, only get a little algae, which I scape off weekly Thanks in advance!!       ------------------------------------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the home page.  Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com to receive the digest, which includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com for the No E-Mail option where you will still be able to read messages on the group and post replies. Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com to receive individual e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 43626	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 9/27/2009
Subject: 5 Creative aquarium designs | 1 Design Per Day

Some interesting ideas for aquariums. At least one has been posted here before. http://www.1designperday.com/2009/09/27/5-creative-aquarium-designs/ http://preview.tinyurl.com/ydet29s \\Steve//

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 43627	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 9/27/2009
Subject: Portable Aquarium

Not really big enough for the goldfish shown, but an interesting idea for the betta that likes to take walks. http://4.bp.blogspot.com/_L1y4XexY16s/Sr9JrSwVSkI/AAAAAAAAKXs/b-b0VJZHgA o/s1600-h/FishBowl00.jpg http://preview.tinyurl.com/ycu4mha \\Steve//

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 43628	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 9/27/2009
Subject: Re: Portable Aquarium

\\Steve// Does the TinyURL plug-in for FireFox create the Preview TinyURL's also OR are you editing the URL to add in the "preview" part? Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Steve Szabo Sent: Sunday, September 27, 2009 7:37 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Portable Aquarium Not really big enough for the goldfish shown, but an interesting idea for the betta that likes to take walks. http://4.bp.blogspot.com/_L1y4XexY16s/Sr9JrSwVSkI/AAAAAAAAKXs/b-b0VJZHgA o/s1600-h/FishBowl00.jpg http://preview.tinyurl.com/ycu4mha \\Steve//

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 43629	From: Dora Smith	Date: 9/27/2009
Subject: Re: Portable Aquarium

Gotta keep that fish entertained. Let it see the world. Yours, Dora Smith Austin, TX tiggernut24@... ----- Original Message ----- From: "Steve Szabo" <steve@...> To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Sunday, September 27, 2009 7:37 PM Subject: [AquaticLife] Portable Aquarium Not really big enough for the goldfish shown, but an interesting idea for the betta that likes to take walks. http://4.bp.blogspot.com/_L1y4XexY16s/Sr9JrSwVSkI/AAAAAAAAKXs/b-b0VJZHgA o/s1600-h/FishBowl00.jpg http://preview.tinyurl.com/ycu4mha \\Steve// ------------------------------------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the home page. Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com to receive the digest, which includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com for the No E-Mail option where you will still be able to read messages on the group and post replies. Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com to receive individual e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 43630	From: Garry Peak	Date: 9/27/2009
Subject: Re: Jack Dempseys

LOL...yes I do :) I just have no experience with them...I've bred Kribensis for years...I put my 55gal back up.....and they were a total impulse buy.. I need to do some reading, I just haven't had chance the last few weeks.. They are growing like weeds...beautiful fish. Just wanted to see if there was at least something I could have in there as well...I do know how big they can get, and I dare say I may have a pair, one has a pointed dorsal fin, and the other is more rounded. Asked on here because I know from reading for a few years that you tend to get quick answers.... Cheers, Garry   ________________________________ From: bill 1433 <warrenprint@...> To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Sunday, September 27, 2009 6:47:33 PM Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Jack Dempseys   Hi Garry,   Not to be a wise guy but you do understand why they are called "Jack Dempseys", don't you?   Bill  --- On Sun, 9/27/09, Garry Peak <peakie_au@yahoo. com> wrote: From: Garry Peak <peakie_au@yahoo. com> Subject: [AquaticLife] Jack Dempseys To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com Date: Sunday, September 27, 2009, 7:37 PM Hey guys...I usually just lurk, but have been a member for a long time. Question.... I have a 55gal..I know I will will have to get something bigger down the track....I have 2 Jack Dempseys in there at present, that's all, one is about 3", and the other is 2.5"...they are both growing like weeds. What, if anything, can I put in there with them? Something for cleanup, and maybe a little algae control?. What other fish can I put, just to fill the tank out a little, that can complete with the Dempseys and not get killed? Don't want a common Pleco that gets huge, how about maybe one that gets no more than 6-8 inches? Any ideas? I don't currently have any plants in the tank, just large pieces of driftwood & some large rocks. I guess I would do some redecorating, so everybody could mark new territories out...My water parameters are smack on Neutral, ph is 7.5, and water is maybe a tad on the hard side hard....no problems so far, has been up and running for nearly 3 months, only get a little algae, which I scape off weekly Thanks in advance!!       ------------ --------- --------- ------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸..·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the home page.  Or e-mail aquaticlife- digest@yahoogrou ps.com to receive the digest, which includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email Or email aquaticlife- nomail@yahoogrou ps.com for the No E-Mail option where you will still be able to read messages on the group and post replies. Or email aquaticlife- normal@yahoogrou ps.com to receive individual e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 43631	From: bill 1433	Date: 9/27/2009
Subject: Re: Jack Dempseys

Sorry Garry,   Like I said, I was not trying to be a wise guy or really give a "quick" answer, with Dempsey's there are none anyway.  You could possibly try anything from the Cory family but a lot and quick and make sure they are near adult size.  By that I mean, any new fish you introduce may be picked on but if enough strangers are introduced, it spreads things out so too speak.  BUT, if you do have a pair, it may be trouble right away.  Honestly, there are no easy answers except to try but I can tell you with them, the sooner the better.  If they will except any tank-mates at all, it is when their young.  As they hit their "teens", that's usually when they adapt their full aggressive nature that they are famous for and then no matter what you put into that tank, including another Dempsey, it will get clobbered.  I have seen a four inch Dempsey go right for a full grown Oscar without any reservation or fear at all.   Bill --- On Sun, 9/27/09, Garry Peak <peakie_au@...> wrote: > From: Garry Peak <peakie_au@...> > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Jack Dempseys > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Date: Sunday, September 27, 2009, 10:49 PM > LOL...yes I do :) I just have no > experience with them...I've bred Kribensis for > years...I put my 55gal back up.....and they were a total > impulse buy.. I need to do some reading, I just haven't had > chance the last few weeks.. They are growing like > weeds...beautiful fish. Just wanted to see if there was at > least something I could have in there as well...I do know > how big they can get, and I dare say I may have a pair, one > has a pointed dorsal fin, and the other is more rounded. > Asked on here because I know from reading for a few years > that you tend to get quick answers.... > > Cheers, Garry >   > > > > > ________________________________ > From: bill 1433 <warrenprint@...> > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Sent: Sunday, September 27, 2009 6:47:33 PM > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Jack Dempseys > >   > Hi Garry, >   > Not to be a wise guy but you do understand why they are > called "Jack Dempseys", don't you? >   > Bill  > > --- On Sun, 9/27/09, Garry Peak <peakie_au@yahoo. > com> wrote: > > From: Garry Peak <peakie_au@yahoo. com> > Subject: [AquaticLife] Jack Dempseys > To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com > Date: Sunday, September 27, 2009, 7:37 PM > > Hey guys...I usually just lurk, but have been a member for > a long time. Question.... I have a 55gal..I know I will will > have to get something bigger down the track....I have 2 Jack > Dempseys in there at present, that's all, one is about 3", > and the other is 2.5"...they are both growing like weeds. > What, if anything, can I put in there with them? Something > for cleanup, and maybe a little algae control?. What other > fish can I put, just to fill the tank out a little, that can > complete with the Dempseys and not get killed? Don't want a > common Pleco that gets huge, how about maybe one that gets > no more than 6-8 inches? Any ideas? I don't currently have > any plants in the tank, just large pieces of driftwood & > some large rocks. I guess I would do some redecorating, so > everybody could mark new territories out...My water > parameters are smack on Neutral, ph is 7.5, and water is > maybe a tad on the hard side hard....no problems so far, has > been up and running for > nearly 3 months, only get a little algae, which I scape off > weekly > > Thanks in advance!! > >       > > ------------ --------- --------- ------ > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when > replying, Thank You. > ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> > ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> > PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is > NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of > the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new > subject (was re: old subject)" <- > <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸..·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. > , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. > > If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of > unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by > clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the home page.  > > Or e-mail aquaticlife- digest@yahoogrou ps.com to receive > the digest, which includes up to 25 posts at a time in a > single email > > Or email aquaticlife- nomail@yahoogrou ps.com for the No > E-Mail option where you will still be able to read messages > on the group and post replies. > > Or email aquaticlife- normal@yahoogrou ps.com to receive > individual e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > >       > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > ------------------------------------ > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when > replying, Thank You. > ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> > ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> > PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is > NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of > the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new > subject (was re: old subject)" <- > <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. > , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. > > If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of > unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by > clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the home page.  > > Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com > to receive the digest, which includes up to 25 posts at a > time in a single email > > Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com > for the No E-Mail option where you will still be able to > read messages on the group and post replies. > > Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com > to receive individual e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links > > >     mailto:AquaticLife-fullfeatured@yahoogroups.com > > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 43632	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 9/27/2009
Subject: Re: Jack Dempseys

Start here with some reading... http://fish.mongabay.com/species/Cichlasoma_octofasciatum.html With a large enough tank (not the 55G you now have), you'll see in the SC section (Suggested Companions) of the above Mongabay profile, the other fish that have been known to be able to survive in a tank with a Jack Dempsey. One that is listed is Loricarids, which are armored sucker mouth catfish... commonly called plecos but also Otocinclus and other catfish. http://fish.mongabay.com/loricariidae.htm In your case, since you need a pleco that can do OK against a potential nuisance/terror like a Jack Dempsey, you should probably get a common pleco, probably a juvi in the 4" to 5" range right now, but arrange with your LFS that you can exchange it when it reaches 10" for another smaller one in the 6" range. This will keep you from having the bioload issues that a full sized common pleco brings, since they grow to 18" to 24" long. When you replace it, you will have to get another juvi that is large enough so it will be able to fend for itself since the JD's will have grown to near adult size when the time comes to exchange the pleco. A commonly found pleco that only grows to around 6" is the BN (Bristle Nosed) Pleco (Ancistrus sp.) but I'm not sure that would be big enough as your Jack Dempsey's get larger since their adult size should be 8" to 9". I would think that the pleco should be at least as big as the Jack Dempsey's. All of this is predicated on your having a MUCH larger tank since even the two JD's in a 55G tank will likely result in only one JD at some point, even if they are a mated pair. There is definitely NOT enough room in the 55G for any other fish. Here's some more reading... FAQ's on Jack Dempsey's compatibility issues. http://www.wetwebmedia.com/FWsubwebindex/dempseycompf.htm http://www.allcichlids.com/central_america/cichlasoma_octofasciatum_jack_dem psey_cichlid_.html For more reading about compatibility with pleco's, I would go to http://www.PlecoFanatics.com/forum/, do a search for pleco and jack dempsey and read what others have to say. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Garry Peak Sent: Sunday, September 27, 2009 9:49 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Jack Dempseys LOL...yes I do :) I just have no experience with them...I've bred Kribensis for years...I put my 55gal back up.....and they were a total impulse buy.. I need to do some reading, I just haven't had chance the last few weeks.. They are growing like weeds...beautiful fish. Just wanted to see if there was at least something I could have in there as well...I do know how big they can get, and I dare say I may have a pair, one has a pointed dorsal fin, and the other is more rounded. Asked on here because I know from reading for a few years that you tend to get quick answers.... Cheers, Garry   ________________________________ From: bill 1433 <warrenprint@...> To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Sunday, September 27, 2009 6:47:33 PM Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Jack Dempseys   Hi Garry,   Not to be a wise guy but you do understand why they are called "Jack Dempseys", don't you?   Bill  --- On Sun, 9/27/09, Garry Peak <peakie_au@yahoo. com> wrote: From: Garry Peak <peakie_au@yahoo. com> Subject: [AquaticLife] Jack Dempseys To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com Date: Sunday, September 27, 2009, 7:37 PM Hey guys...I usually just lurk, but have been a member for a long time. Question.... I have a 55gal..I know I will will have to get something bigger down the track....I have 2 Jack Dempseys in there at present, that's all, one is about 3", and the other is 2.5"...they are both growing like weeds. What, if anything, can I put in there with them? Something for cleanup, and maybe a little algae control?. What other fish can I put, just to fill the tank out a little, that can complete with the Dempseys and not get killed? Don't want a common Pleco that gets huge, how about maybe one that gets no more than 6-8 inches? Any ideas? I don't currently have any plants in the tank, just large pieces of driftwood & some large rocks. I guess I would do some redecorating, so everybody could mark new territories out...My water parameters are smack on Neutral, ph is 7.5, and water is maybe a tad on the hard side hard....no problems so far, has been up and running for nearly 3 months, only get a little algae, which I scape off weekly Thanks in advance!!

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 43633	From: Menagerie_Manager	Date: 9/27/2009
Subject: Re: Free Aquarium (4000 Gallons)/so

Oh shoot - guess I haven't been watching those ST IV reruns that recently. Peri-menopause does a number on one's memory. DebR and the Three Goldfish (CB, Lucille, and Raven) ----- Original Message ----- From: "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@...> Somebody has been watching too many reruns of Star Trek IV: The Voyage Home. Oh wait.. those were humpback whales in that one. LOL -----Original Message----- From: Menagerie_Manager Well, since I don't plan on getting more fish, the three goldies and their white cloud roomies would think they'd died and gone to Heaven and I could go forever between 1,000 gallon PWCs. Now if it were made of transparent aluminum, I'd rescue a mated pair of orcas and save the future of Earth.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 43634	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 9/28/2009
Subject: Re: Portable Aquarium

The extension I use for TinyURL can be set to create the previews. \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Lenny V. aka GoldLenny Sent: Sunday, September 27, 2009 9:24 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Portable Aquarium \\Steve// Does the TinyURL plug-in for FireFox create the Preview TinyURL's also OR are you editing the URL to add in the "preview" part? Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Steve Szabo Sent: Sunday, September 27, 2009 7:37 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Portable Aquarium Not really big enough for the goldfish shown, but an interesting idea for the betta that likes to take walks. http://4.bp.blogspot.com/_L1y4XexY16s/Sr9JrSwVSkI/AAAAAAAAKXs/b-b0VJZHgA o/s1600-h/FishBowl00.jpg http://preview.tinyurl.com/ycu4mha \\Steve//

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 43635	From: kuradi8	Date: 9/28/2009
Subject: Re: Portable Aquarium

YIKES! It would be cruel to parade one's fish like that. =8oO A pet is not a fashion accessory. A couple of jobs ago, my office was a few doors down from a Vet's office and diagonally across the street from a McDonald's in the other direction. I once saw a Mom and two tween kids carrying a pet carrier from the Vet to lunch. Junior was bouncing the carrier bangedy-bangedy-bouncedy-bouncedy off his legs as he walked. "Thank heaven it's empty," I said to myself. But no, as they waited to cross the street, they all looked into the carrier to make goo-goo faces and noises at whatever had been shaken, rattled and rolled inside. =8oO I'm still horrified at the memory. =8oO And how would taking your fish for a walk be any different??? If it's for real, I think that "purse" is CRUEL. ~Kai --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Steve Szabo" <steve@...> wrote: > > Not really big enough for the goldfish shown, but an interesting idea > for the betta that likes to take walks. > > http://4.bp.blogspot.com/_L1y4XexY16s/Sr9JrSwVSkI/AAAAAAAAKXs/b-b0VJZHgA > o/s1600-h/FishBowl00.jpg > > http://preview.tinyurl.com/ycu4mha > > \\Steve// >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 43636	From: William M	Date: 9/28/2009
Subject: Re: Free Aquarium (4000 Gallons)/so

That woudl be just about enough room for a pair of dovii (wolf) cichlids. --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Menagerie_Manager" <menagerie_manager@...> wrote: > > Oh shoot - guess I haven't been watching those ST IV reruns that > recently. Peri-menopause does a number on one's memory. > > DebR and the Three Goldfish > (CB, Lucille, and Raven) > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@...> > > > Somebody has been watching too many reruns of Star Trek IV: The Voyage Home. > Oh wait.. those were humpback whales in that one. LOL

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 43637	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 9/28/2009
Subject: Snail with black beard algae growing on it's shell

I have a mystery snail with black beard algae growing on it's shell. Can I squirt it with peroxide or is it safe for invertebrates? Amber

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 43638	From: Deenerz@aol.com	Date: 9/28/2009
Subject: Re: Snail with black beard algae growing on it's shell

NO. You will burn the soft tissue if it comes in contact with it. It is no longer recommended for people anymore as it can cause more damage than it helps. -Mike -----Original Message----- From: Amber Berglund <arberglund@...> To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Mon, Sep 28, 2009 8:55 pm Subject: [AquaticLife] Snail with black beard algae growing on it's shell I have a mystery snail with black beard algae growing on it's shell. Can I squirt it with peroxide or is it safe for invertebrates? Amber

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 43639	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 9/28/2009
Subject: Re: Snail with black beard algae growing on it's shell

Like Mike says, I wouldn't squirt the HP that close to fish/inverts. It should only be squirted on the algae on the tank's surfaces, most plant surfaces, etc. For your snail, simply take him/her out the tank and use a toothbrush on it's shell (no toothpaste though :-D). I'm not sure I agree with Mike about us humans using it though. It is still readily available at local drug stores in the 3% level, at beauty supply outlets in the 10% level (for bleaching hair), as the main ingredient in most of those tooth whitener strips/products, etc. It is also being recommended as a wipe to kill the H1N1 Flu Virus. Here's a snip from CDC.gov (Center for Disease Control)... http://www.atsdr.cdc.gov/MHMI/mmg174.html What is hydrogen peroxide? Hydrogen peroxide is used widely in industry to bleach cloth and paper and to manufacture other chemicals. It is also an ingredient of some rocket fuels. Hydrogen peroxide is found in dilute form (3% to 10%) in the home and in concentrated form (30% or greater) in industry. In the home, 3% solutions of hydrogen peroxide are used as disinfectants for cuts and scrapes, and slightly more concentrated solutions (10%) are used in hair bleaches. Dilute solutions have almost no odor, but stronger solutions have a sharp odor. Hydrogen peroxide is not flammable, but concentrated solutions may cause combustion of organic materials. Of course, HP is getting a bad rap right now due to the terrorists... ooops, *alleged* terrorists buying large quantities of 10% HP and Acetone (nail polish remover) at the beauty supply outlets because both can be used as bomb making materials. This adds a whole new meaning to "She's the bomb!" when talking about you ladies. ;-) Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Amber Berglund Sent: Monday, September 28, 2009 10:56 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Snail with black beard algae growing on it's shell I have a mystery snail with black beard algae growing on it's shell. Can I squirt it with peroxide or is it safe for invertebrates? Amber

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 43640	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 9/29/2009
Subject: Re: Snail with black beard algae growing on it's shell

LOL, well thanks for all that info Lenny, is it safe to squirt into a tank with inverts in it though? You never know if they are hiding in the plants (the shrimp or baby snails). Amber Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > > > Like Mike says, I wouldn't squirt the HP that close to fish/inverts. It > should only be squirted on the algae on the tank's surfaces, most plant > surfaces, etc. For your snail, simply take him/her out the tank and use a > toothbrush on it's shell (no toothpaste though :-D). > > I'm not sure I agree with Mike about us humans using it though. It is > still > readily available at local drug stores in the 3% level, at beauty supply > outlets in the 10% level (for bleaching hair), as the main ingredient in > most of those tooth whitener strips/products, etc. It is also being > recommended as a wipe to kill the H1N1 Flu Virus. > > Here's a snip from CDC.gov (Center for Disease Control)... > http://www.atsdr.cdc.gov/MHMI/mmg174.html > <http://www.atsdr.cdc.gov/MHMI/mmg174.html> > > What is hydrogen peroxide? > Hydrogen peroxide is used widely in industry to bleach cloth and paper and > to manufacture other chemicals. It is also an ingredient of some rocket > fuels. Hydrogen peroxide is found in dilute form (3% to 10%) in the > home and > in concentrated form (30% or greater) in industry. In the home, 3% > solutions > of hydrogen peroxide are used as disinfectants for cuts and scrapes, and > slightly more concentrated solutions (10%) are used in hair bleaches. > Dilute > solutions have almost no odor, but stronger solutions have a sharp odor. > Hydrogen peroxide is not flammable, but concentrated solutions may cause > combustion of organic materials. > > Of course, HP is getting a bad rap right now due to the terrorists... > ooops, > *alleged* terrorists buying large quantities of 10% HP and Acetone (nail > polish remover) at the beauty supply outlets because both can be used as > bomb making materials. This adds a whole new meaning to "She's the bomb!" > when talking about you ladies. ;-) > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right > side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On > Behalf Of Amber Berglund > Sent: Monday, September 28, 2009 10:56 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Subject: [AquaticLife] Snail with black beard algae growing on it's shell > > I have a mystery snail with black beard algae growing on it's shell. Can I > squirt it with peroxide or is it safe for invertebrates? > > Amber > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 43641	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 9/29/2009
Subject: Re: Snail with black beard algae growing on it's shell

Glad I asked, Thanks. Amber Deenerz@... wrote: > > > NO. > > You will burn the soft tissue if it comes in contact with it. > > It is no longer recommended for people anymore as it can cause more > damage than it helps. > > -Mike > > -----Original Message----- > From: Amber Berglund <arberglund@... > <mailto:arberglund%40gmail.com>> > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Sent: Mon, Sep 28, 2009 8:55 pm > Subject: [AquaticLife] Snail with black beard algae growing on it's > shell > > I have a mystery snail with black beard algae growing on it's shell. > Can > I squirt it with peroxide or is it safe for invertebrates? > > Amber > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 43642	From: Lainey Alexander	Date: 9/29/2009
Subject: Dead olive nerite snails

Hi Everyone - I am new to the group and I have a question/problem about snails. I purchased a number of Olive Nerite snails by mail-order and when they arrived I floated them in my 37g freshwater planted tank, waited until they were warmed up, then I unwrapped them from their newspaper and placed them on the bottom of my tank in gravel. They moved around for a few minutes (not all but some) and then all of them appeared to die. They never moved again for two days so I panicked that they would pollute the tank. I then removed them, placed them in a bowl of tank water and still they have never moved again. I assume they are dead? It has been about three days since they came and I really think they are dead but want to be sure. If they are dead, what would be the reason? I am wondering if the seller at Arizona Aquatic gardens might have kept them in brackish water and failed to tell me this? Would that explain why they died? Thanks for any possible help... Lainey Alexander http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 43643	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 9/29/2009
Subject: Re: Dead olive nerite snails

Did you call AZ. Aquatic Gardens to let them know that the snails did not appear to be very well when you got them? I'm not sure how long their "arrive alive" guarantee is for but you should notify them ASAP to avail yourself of any rights you may have. Yes, if they kept them in brackish water and then sent them to you, they should have advised you of same so that you could properly acclimate them for at least several days to a week... maybe longer. They should have provided acclimation procedures, including the salinity level of their water. Am I reading you right, that the snails were wrapped in newspaper and not in bags of water like fish would be shipped? That doesn't sound right either. The way to know if they are alive or dead is to give them the smell test. Pick them up out of the water and smell one at a time. The dead ones should basically stink to high heaven, at least Mystery Snails do when they die. If they don't stink, then they could possibly still be alive. Regardless, you should contact AAG right away and talk to them to see if they will honor any guarantee they may have. Years ago, I heard several bad things about AZ. Aquatic Gardens but I thought they cleared up their BBBOnline complaints back then. I hope they are not up to their misdeeds again. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Lainey Alexander Sent: Tuesday, September 29, 2009 8:45 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Dead olive nerite snails Hi Everyone - I am new to the group and I have a question/problem about snails. I purchased a number of Olive Nerite snails by mail-order and when they arrived I floated them in my 37g freshwater planted tank, waited until they were warmed up, then I unwrapped them from their newspaper and placed them on the bottom of my tank in gravel. They moved around for a few minutes (not all but some) and then all of them appeared to die. They never moved again for two days so I panicked that they would pollute the tank. I then removed them, placed them in a bowl of tank water and still they have never moved again. I assume they are dead? It has been about three days since they came and I really think they are dead but want to be sure. If they are dead, what would be the reason? I am wondering if the seller at Arizona Aquatic gardens might have kept them in brackish water and failed to tell me this? Would that explain why they died? Thanks for any possible help... Lainey Alexander http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 43644	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 9/29/2009
Subject: Re: Dead olive nerite snails

Actually packing snails in wet newspaper is quite normal for shipping them Lenny. I found out the hard way that it's actually better to have them shipped that way than in bags of water, as snails will bang around and crack their shells in bags of water, but in newspaper they can still breathe air and they stay moist with no ill effects. But yes, they should have given acclimation procedures, or at least tank parameters so the buyer knows how to prepare for the snails. Amber Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > > > Did you call AZ. Aquatic Gardens to let them know that the snails did not > appear to be very well when you got them? I'm not sure how long their > "arrive alive" guarantee is for but you should notify them ASAP to avail > yourself of any rights you may have. > > Yes, if they kept them in brackish water and then sent them to you, they > should have advised you of same so that you could properly acclimate them > for at least several days to a week... maybe longer. They should have > provided acclimation procedures, including the salinity level of their > water. > > Am I reading you right, that the snails were wrapped in newspaper and > not in > bags of water like fish would be shipped? That doesn't sound right either. > > The way to know if they are alive or dead is to give them the smell test. > Pick them up out of the water and smell one at a time. The dead ones > should > basically stink to high heaven, at least Mystery Snails do when they die. > If they don't stink, then they could possibly still be alive. > > Regardless, you should contact AAG right away and talk to them to see if > they will honor any guarantee they may have. > > Years ago, I heard several bad things about AZ. Aquatic Gardens but I > thought they cleared up their BBBOnline complaints back then. I hope they > are not up to their misdeeds again. > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right > side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On > Behalf Of Lainey Alexander > Sent: Tuesday, September 29, 2009 8:45 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Subject: [AquaticLife] Dead olive nerite snails > > Hi Everyone - > > I am new to the group and I have a question/problem about snails. > > I purchased a number of Olive Nerite snails by mail-order and when they > arrived I floated them in my 37g freshwater planted tank, waited until > they > were warmed up, then I unwrapped them from their newspaper and placed them > on the bottom of my tank in gravel. They moved around for a few > minutes (not > all but some) and then all of them appeared to die. They never moved again > for two days so I panicked that they would pollute the tank. I then > removed > them, placed them in a bowl of tank water and still they have never moved > again. I assume they are dead? It has been about three days since they > came > and I really think they are dead but want to be sure. > > If they are dead, what would be the reason? I am wondering if the > seller at > Arizona Aquatic gardens might have kept them in brackish water and > failed to > tell me this? Would that explain why they died? > > Thanks for any possible help... > > Lainey Alexander > http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com <http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com> > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 43645	From: Donna Ransome	Date: 9/30/2009
Subject: Re: Dead olive nerite snails

I agree with Amber, packing in damp newspaper is how I received my nerites. I have zebras, not olives. I know a vendor that acclimates them for you if you'd rather get a refund from AZ and buy from my contact. She is a hobbyist.I have 12 of her zebra nerites. I had no problem when they arrived, but you DO have to have lots of algae.they really don't eat anything else, not algae wafers, not veges. Their biggest risk is starvation and I HAVE lost a couple (after many months) due to "too clean" tanks. I really like them though so I'm trying to find the balance of plants, light, fertilizer and algae that will make everyone happy. Mine moved right away as soon as they hit the substrate. At a snail's pace of course, LOL. _____ From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Lenny V. aka GoldLenny Sent: Tuesday, September 29, 2009 11:40 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Dead olive nerite snails Did you call AZ. Aquatic Gardens to let them know that the snails did not appear to be very well when you got them? I'm not sure how long their "arrive alive" guarantee is for but you should notify them ASAP to avail yourself of any rights you may have. Yes, if they kept them in brackish water and then sent them to you, they should have advised you of same so that you could properly acclimate them for at least several days to a week... maybe longer. They should have provided acclimation procedures, including the salinity level of their water. Am I reading you right, that the snails were wrapped in newspaper and not in bags of water like fish would be shipped? That doesn't sound right either. The way to know if they are alive or dead is to give them the smell test. Pick them up out of the water and smell one at a time. The dead ones should basically stink to high heaven, at least Mystery Snails do when they die. If they don't stink, then they could possibly still be alive. Regardless, you should contact AAG right away and talk to them to see if they will honor any guarantee they may have. Years ago, I heard several bad things about AZ. Aquatic Gardens but I thought they cleared up their BBBOnline complaints back then. I hope they are not up to their misdeeds again. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Lainey Alexander Sent: Tuesday, September 29, 2009 8:45 PM To: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Dead olive nerite snails Hi Everyone - I am new to the group and I have a question/problem about snails. I purchased a number of Olive Nerite snails by mail-order and when they arrived I floated them in my 37g freshwater planted tank, waited until they were warmed up, then I unwrapped them from their newspaper and placed them on the bottom of my tank in gravel. They moved around for a few minutes (not all but some) and then all of them appeared to die. They never moved again for two days so I panicked that they would pollute the tank. I then removed them, placed them in a bowl of tank water and still they have never moved again. I assume they are dead? It has been about three days since they came and I really think they are dead but want to be sure. If they are dead, what would be the reason? I am wondering if the seller at Arizona Aquatic gardens might have kept them in brackish water and failed to tell me this? Would that explain why they died? Thanks for any possible help... Lainey Alexander http://www.grasslan <http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com> dsgouldians.com [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 43646	From: Trycya	Date: 9/30/2009
Subject: Khuli loaches and Dojo loaches

I have 2 55-gallon tanks right now but have been thinking of eventually getting one big one (150-200g) but am not sure if my 2 dojo loaches would get along with my 2 khuli loaches. I have been researching this and seem to get some very differing answers. the dojos are 7-8 inches long right now and the khulis well they are maybe 2 inches. My tanks have guppies, a few mollies. corys, ottos, clowns, and ghost catfish, and a couple of larger algae eaters (unsure of what they are). I am wondering if maybe when I do go to a larger tank if maybe I shouldn't get a 30g tank and keep a few ottos and gupps with the khulis or if they would be safe being with the dojos. Any thoughts? Tricia

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 43647	From: Rev. Eric Roberts	Date: 9/30/2009
Subject: Re: Khuli loaches and Dojo loaches

The kuhli and dojos pretty stay hidden in the gravel (though the dojos will come up when a storm is coming, hence their other name, "weather loaches"), I found them to be totally docile with other fish. Eric From: Trycya Sent: Wednesday, September 30, 2009 8:43 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Khuli loaches and Dojo loaches I have 2 55-gallon tanks right now but have been thinking of eventually getting one big one (150-200g) but am not sure if my 2 dojo loaches would get along with my 2 khuli loaches. I have been researching this and seem to get some very differing answers. the dojos are 7-8 inches long right now and the khulis well they are maybe 2 inches. My tanks have guppies, a few mollies. corys, ottos, clowns, and ghost catfish, and a couple of larger algae eaters (unsure of what they are). I am wondering if maybe when I do go to a larger tank if maybe I shouldn't get a 30g tank and keep a few ottos and gupps with the khulis or if they would be safe being with the dojos. Any thoughts? Tricia [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 43648	From: Lainey Alexander	Date: 9/30/2009
Subject: Re: Dead olive nerite snails

Hi Donna - Would you mind giving me your nerite contact's name? I am not going to take a chance on more snails from AZ. Thanks, Lainey http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com On Sep 30, 2009, at 5:53 AM, Donna Ransome wrote: > I agree with Amber, packing in damp newspaper is how I received my > nerites. > I have zebras, not olives. I know a vendor that acclimates them for > you if > you'd rather get a refund from AZ and buy from my contact. She is a > hobbyist.I have 12 of her zebra nerites. I had no problem when they > arrived, but you DO have to have lots of algae.they really don't eat > anything else, not algae wafers, not veges. Their biggest risk is > starvation and I HAVE lost a couple (after many months) due to "too > clean" > tanks. > > I really like them though so I'm trying to find the balance of plants, > light, fertilizer and algae that will make everyone happy. > > Mine moved right away as soon as they hit the substrate. At a > snail's pace > of course, LOL. > > _____ > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On > Behalf Of Lenny V. aka GoldLenny > Sent: Tuesday, September 29, 2009 11:40 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Dead olive nerite snails > > Did you call AZ. Aquatic Gardens to let them know that the snails > did not > appear to be very well when you got them? I'm not sure how long their > "arrive alive" guarantee is for but you should notify them ASAP to > avail > yourself of any rights you may have. > > Yes, if they kept them in brackish water and then sent them to you, > they > should have advised you of same so that you could properly > acclimate them > for at least several days to a week... maybe longer. They should have > provided acclimation procedures, including the salinity level of their > water. > > Am I reading you right, that the snails were wrapped in newspaper > and not in > bags of water like fish would be shipped? That doesn't sound right > either. > > The way to know if they are alive or dead is to give them the smell > test. > Pick them up out of the water and smell one at a time. The dead > ones should > basically stink to high heaven, at least Mystery Snails do when > they die. > If they don't stink, then they could possibly still be alive. > > Regardless, you should contact AAG right away and talk to them to > see if > they will honor any guarantee they may have. > > Years ago, I heard several bad things about AZ. Aquatic Gardens but I > thought they cleared up their BBBOnline complaints back then. I > hope they > are not up to their misdeeds again. > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > blogspot.com > (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the > right > side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, > Month) > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > yahoogroups.com > [mailto:AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > yahoogroups.com] > On > Behalf Of Lainey Alexander > Sent: Tuesday, September 29, 2009 8:45 PM > To: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > yahoogroups.com > Subject: [AquaticLife] Dead olive nerite snails > > Hi Everyone - > > I am new to the group and I have a question/problem about snails. > > I purchased a number of Olive Nerite snails by mail-order and when > they > arrived I floated them in my 37g freshwater planted tank, waited > until they > were warmed up, then I unwrapped them from their newspaper and > placed them > on the bottom of my tank in gravel. They moved around for a few > minutes (not > all but some) and then all of them appeared to die. They never > moved again > for two days so I panicked that they would pollute the tank. I then > removed > them, placed them in a bowl of tank water and still they have never > moved > again. I assume they are dead? It has been about three days since > they came > and I really think they are dead but want to be sure. > > If they are dead, what would be the reason? I am wondering if the > seller at > Arizona Aquatic gardens might have kept them in brackish water and > failed to > tell me this? Would that explain why they died? > > Thanks for any possible help... > > Lainey Alexander > http://www.grasslan <http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com> > dsgouldians.com > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 43649	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 9/30/2009
Subject: Re: Dead olive nerite snails

While newspaper can probably work for multiples of Mystery Snails, but if shipped only one per bag, they would not bang together. I'm not sure if Nerite snails have a breathing tube and lung like Mystery snails have. I did do some more reading on them and apparently they do like an air space above the water line and will spend time out of the water so I guess they can stay out of water for a while... I'm just not certain how long. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Amber Berglund Sent: Tuesday, September 29, 2009 11:54 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Dead olive nerite snails Actually packing snails in wet newspaper is quite normal for shipping them Lenny. I found out the hard way that it's actually better to have them shipped that way than in bags of water, as snails will bang around and crack their shells in bags of water, but in newspaper they can still breathe air and they stay moist with no ill effects. But yes, they should have given acclimation procedures, or at least tank parameters so the buyer knows how to prepare for the snails. Amber Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > > > Did you call AZ. Aquatic Gardens to let them know that the snails did > not appear to be very well when you got them? I'm not sure how long > their "arrive alive" guarantee is for but you should notify them ASAP > to avail yourself of any rights you may have. > > Yes, if they kept them in brackish water and then sent them to you, > they should have advised you of same so that you could properly > acclimate them for at least several days to a week... maybe longer. > They should have provided acclimation procedures, including the > salinity level of their water. > > Am I reading you right, that the snails were wrapped in newspaper and > not in bags of water like fish would be shipped? That doesn't sound > right either. > > The way to know if they are alive or dead is to give them the smell test. > Pick them up out of the water and smell one at a time. The dead ones > should basically stink to high heaven, at least Mystery Snails do when > they die. > If they don't stink, then they could possibly still be alive. > > Regardless, you should contact AAG right away and talk to them to see > if they will honor any guarantee they may have. > > Years ago, I heard several bad things about AZ. Aquatic Gardens but I > thought they cleared up their BBBOnline complaints back then. I hope > they are not up to their misdeeds again. > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> (Links to any articles referenced in > above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels > and also under Archives by Year, Month) > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On Behalf Of Lainey Alexander > Sent: Tuesday, September 29, 2009 8:45 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Subject: [AquaticLife] Dead olive nerite snails > > Hi Everyone - > > I am new to the group and I have a question/problem about snails. > > I purchased a number of Olive Nerite snails by mail-order and when > they arrived I floated them in my 37g freshwater planted tank, waited > until they were warmed up, then I unwrapped them from their newspaper > and placed them on the bottom of my tank in gravel. They moved around > for a few minutes (not all but some) and then all of them appeared to > die. They never moved again for two days so I panicked that they would > pollute the tank. I then removed them, placed them in a bowl of tank > water and still they have never moved again. I assume they are dead? > It has been about three days since they came and I really think they > are dead but want to be sure. > > If they are dead, what would be the reason? I am wondering if the > seller at Arizona Aquatic gardens might have kept them in brackish > water and failed to tell me this? Would that explain why they died? > > Thanks for any possible help... > > Lainey Alexander > http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com > <http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com>

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 43650	From: Cee Jaye	Date: 9/30/2009
Subject: CL 4000gal free tank

Does anyone still have the link to the add? I just want to show it to my mom ) Thanks LOL Tara [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 43651	From: Lainey Alexander	Date: 9/30/2009
Subject: Re: Dead olive nerite snails

The strange part of it was that they appeared to be alive when they got into the water, but only for a very short time... Lainey http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com On Sep 30, 2009, at 2:30 PM, Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > While newspaper can probably work for multiples of Mystery Snails, > but if > shipped only one per bag, they would not bang together. I'm not > sure if > Nerite snails have a breathing tube and lung like Mystery snails > have. I > did do some more reading on them and apparently they do like an air > space > above the water line and will spend time out of the water so I > guess they > can stay out of water for a while... I'm just not certain how long. > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the > right > side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, > Month) > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On > Behalf Of Amber Berglund > Sent: Tuesday, September 29, 2009 11:54 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Dead olive nerite snails > > Actually packing snails in wet newspaper is quite normal for > shipping them > Lenny. I found out the hard way that it's actually better to have them > shipped that way than in bags of water, as snails will bang around > and crack > their shells in bags of water, but in newspaper they can still > breathe air > and they stay moist with no ill effects. > But yes, they should have given acclimation procedures, or at least > tank > parameters so the buyer knows how to prepare for the snails. > > Amber > > Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > > > > > > Did you call AZ. Aquatic Gardens to let them know that the snails > did > > not appear to be very well when you got them? I'm not sure how long > > their "arrive alive" guarantee is for but you should notify them > ASAP > > to avail yourself of any rights you may have. > > > > Yes, if they kept them in brackish water and then sent them to you, > > they should have advised you of same so that you could properly > > acclimate them for at least several days to a week... maybe longer. > > They should have provided acclimation procedures, including the > > salinity level of their water. > > > > Am I reading you right, that the snails were wrapped in newspaper > and > > not in bags of water like fish would be shipped? That doesn't sound > > right either. > > > > The way to know if they are alive or dead is to give them the > smell test. > > Pick them up out of the water and smell one at a time. The dead ones > > should basically stink to high heaven, at least Mystery Snails do > when > > they die. > > If they don't stink, then they could possibly still be alive. > > > > Regardless, you should contact AAG right away and talk to them to > see > > if they will honor any guarantee they may have. > > > > Years ago, I heard several bad things about AZ. Aquatic Gardens > but I > > thought they cleared up their BBBOnline complaints back then. I hope > > they are not up to their misdeeds again. > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> (Links to any articles referenced in > > above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under > Labels > > and also under Archives by Year, Month) > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On Behalf Of Lainey > Alexander > > Sent: Tuesday, September 29, 2009 8:45 PM > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife% > 40yahoogroups.com> > > Subject: [AquaticLife] Dead olive nerite snails > > > > Hi Everyone - > > > > I am new to the group and I have a question/problem about snails. > > > > I purchased a number of Olive Nerite snails by mail-order and when > > they arrived I floated them in my 37g freshwater planted tank, > waited > > until they were warmed up, then I unwrapped them from their > newspaper > > and placed them on the bottom of my tank in gravel. They moved > around > > for a few minutes (not all but some) and then all of them > appeared to > > die. They never moved again for two days so I panicked that they > would > > pollute the tank. I then removed them, placed them in a bowl of tank > > water and still they have never moved again. I assume they are dead? > > It has been about three days since they came and I really think they > > are dead but want to be sure. > > > > If they are dead, what would be the reason? I am wondering if the > > seller at Arizona Aquatic gardens might have kept them in brackish > > water and failed to tell me this? Would that explain why they died? > > > > Thanks for any possible help... > > > > Lainey Alexander > > http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com > > <http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com> > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 43652	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 9/30/2009
Subject: Re: Khuli loaches and Dojo loaches

Dojo / Weather Loaches are cool/cold water fish and Kuhli Loaches are tropical fish so they would not be compatible. http://www.loaches.com/species-index/weather-loach-misgurnis-anguillicaudatu s http://www.loaches.com/species-index/pangio-kuhlii Based on the fish you have, you still NEED a BIG tank. If the "clowns" that you have are Clown Loaches, they grow to 16", should be kept in groups of at least three, five is better, so they NEED a BIG tank, preferably at least 8' long. As far as your "larger algae eaters", are these Pleco's or one of the other algae eating species? If Common Pleco's (a few species are commonly sold), they grow to 18" to 24" and they NEED a BIG tank also. The Dojo / Weather loaches grow to around 9"-10" so a 55G really is too small for them for long term. If you can, two BIG tanks would be good, one could be a cool/cold water tank and the other a tropical tank. A good place to start, to read good profiles/care sheets on fish is http://fish.mongabay.com Use the Search field to look for profiles using either the common name or scientific name. If they do not have a profile, then specialized sites like Loaches.com, PlanetCatfish.com, etc. are other good places to go. I have more good profile sites listed on my blog. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Trycya Sent: Wednesday, September 30, 2009 8:44 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Khuli loaches and Dojo loaches I have 2 55-gallon tanks right now but have been thinking of eventually getting one big one (150-200g) but am not sure if my 2 dojo loaches would get along with my 2 khuli loaches. I have been researching this and seem to get some very differing answers. the dojos are 7-8 inches long right now and the khulis well they are maybe 2 inches. My tanks have guppies, a few mollies. corys, ottos, clowns, and ghost catfish, and a couple of larger algae eaters (unsure of what they are). I am wondering if maybe when I do go to a larger tank if maybe I shouldn't get a 30g tank and keep a few ottos and gupps with the khulis or if they would be safe being with the dojos. Any thoughts? Tricia

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 43653	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 9/30/2009
Subject: Re: CL 4000gal free tank

Here's the thread. http://pets.groups.yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife/message/43564 Here's the link. http://orlando.craigslist.org/zip/1377286878.html Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Cee Jaye Sent: Wednesday, September 30, 2009 12:51 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] CL 4000gal free tank Does anyone still have the link to the add? I just want to show it to my mom ) Thanks LOL Tara

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 43654	From: Rev. Eric Roberts	Date: 9/30/2009
Subject: Re: Khuli loaches and Dojo loaches

I have had them in the same tank for many years and they are both thriving...that is when I see them coming out of the gravel... Eric From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny Sent: Wednesday, September 30, 2009 2:33 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Khuli loaches and Dojo loaches Dojo / Weather Loaches are cool/cold water fish and Kuhli Loaches are tropical fish so they would not be compatible. http://www.loaches.com/species-index/weather-loach-misgurnis-anguillicaudatu s http://www.loaches.com/species-index/pangio-kuhlii Based on the fish you have, you still NEED a BIG tank. If the "clowns" that you have are Clown Loaches, they grow to 16", should be kept in groups of at least three, five is better, so they NEED a BIG tank, preferably at least 8' long. As far as your "larger algae eaters", are these Pleco's or one of the other algae eating species? If Common Pleco's (a few species are commonly sold), they grow to 18" to 24" and they NEED a BIG tank also. The Dojo / Weather loaches grow to around 9"-10" so a 55G really is too small for them for long term. If you can, two BIG tanks would be good, one could be a cool/cold water tank and the other a tropical tank. A good place to start, to read good profiles/care sheets on fish is http://fish.mongabay.com Use the Search field to look for profiles using either the common name or scientific name. If they do not have a profile, then specialized sites like Loaches.com, PlanetCatfish.com, etc. are other good places to go. I have more good profile sites listed on my blog. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Trycya Sent: Wednesday, September 30, 2009 8:44 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Khuli loaches and Dojo loaches I have 2 55-gallon tanks right now but have been thinking of eventually getting one big one (150-200g) but am not sure if my 2 dojo loaches would get along with my 2 khuli loaches. I have been researching this and seem to get some very differing answers. the dojos are 7-8 inches long right now and the khulis well they are maybe 2 inches. My tanks have guppies, a few mollies. corys, ottos, clowns, and ghost catfish, and a couple of larger algae eaters (unsure of what they are). I am wondering if maybe when I do go to a larger tank if maybe I shouldn't get a 30g tank and keep a few ottos and gupps with the khulis or if they would be safe being with the dojos. Any thoughts? Tricia [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 43655	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 9/30/2009
Subject: Re: Dead olive nerite snails

What are your water parameters? I would email AZ and ask them what type of water they keep their nerite snails in. It's possible that they started to die while floating them, as snails don't need to be floated in the water like fish do, they just need to be gradually acclimated to your water, I would have put them in a bowl and slowly poured some of your tank water over their newspaper a trickle at a time to slowly let them adjust. When you float them in a bag of water they can sometimes suffocate or become over heated because the bags of water are generally very close to the lights while they float around the top of the tank. I don't know what type of water nerite snails normally need, I vaguely recall that they need brackish water to reproduce though, it is highly possible that they were shocked from their brackish water (if that's what they were kept in), and the difference in your tap water. When I got my mystery snails (apple snails) I put some in my 10 gallon tank and none of those snails survived, I believe it's because the pH and hardness levels were too low for them to survive, they died rather quickly after adding them to that tank, but in all of my other tanks that I put them in they did great. I keep crushed coral in my filters in my bigger tanks though, I didn't have any in my 10 gallon that I put them in, so I think that's why they didn't survive. It's just possible that the change in water was too much for the snails, especially if your pH is very different from the shipper. Amber Lainey Alexander wrote: > > > The strange part of it was that they appeared to be alive when they > got into the water, but only for a very short time... > > Lainey > http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com <http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com> > > On Sep 30, 2009, at 2:30 PM, Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > > > While newspaper can probably work for multiples of Mystery Snails, > > but if > > shipped only one per bag, they would not bang together. I'm not > > sure if > > Nerite snails have a breathing tube and lung like Mystery snails > > have. I > > did do some more reading on them and apparently they do like an air > > space > > above the water line and will spend time out of the water so I > > guess they > > can stay out of water for a while... I'm just not certain how long. > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the > > right > > side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, > > Month) > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On > > Behalf Of Amber Berglund > > Sent: Tuesday, September 29, 2009 11:54 PM > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Dead olive nerite snails > > > > Actually packing snails in wet newspaper is quite normal for > > shipping them > > Lenny. I found out the hard way that it's actually better to have them > > shipped that way than in bags of water, as snails will bang around > > and crack > > their shells in bags of water, but in newspaper they can still > > breathe air > > and they stay moist with no ill effects. > > But yes, they should have given acclimation procedures, or at least > > tank > > parameters so the buyer knows how to prepare for the snails. > > > > Amber > > > > Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > > > > > > > > > Did you call AZ. Aquatic Gardens to let them know that the snails > > did > > > not appear to be very well when you got them? I'm not sure how long > > > their "arrive alive" guarantee is for but you should notify them > > ASAP > > > to avail yourself of any rights you may have. > > > > > > Yes, if they kept them in brackish water and then sent them to you, > > > they should have advised you of same so that you could properly > > > acclimate them for at least several days to a week... maybe longer. > > > They should have provided acclimation procedures, including the > > > salinity level of their water. > > > > > > Am I reading you right, that the snails were wrapped in newspaper > > and > > > not in bags of water like fish would be shipped? That doesn't sound > > > right either. > > > > > > The way to know if they are alive or dead is to give them the > > smell test. > > > Pick them up out of the water and smell one at a time. The dead ones > > > should basically stink to high heaven, at least Mystery Snails do > > when > > > they die. > > > If they don't stink, then they could possibly still be alive. > > > > > > Regardless, you should contact AAG right away and talk to them to > > see > > > if they will honor any guarantee they may have. > > > > > > Years ago, I heard several bad things about AZ. Aquatic Gardens > > but I > > > thought they cleared up their BBBOnline complaints back then. I hope > > > they are not up to their misdeeds again. > > > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>> > (Links to any articles referenced in > > > above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under > > Labels > > > and also under Archives by Year, Month) > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On Behalf Of Lainey > > Alexander > > > Sent: Tuesday, September 29, 2009 8:45 PM > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife% > > 40yahoogroups.com> > > > Subject: [AquaticLife] Dead olive nerite snails > > > > > > Hi Everyone - > > > > > > I am new to the group and I have a question/problem about snails. > > > > > > I purchased a number of Olive Nerite snails by mail-order and when > > > they arrived I floated them in my 37g freshwater planted tank, > > waited > > > until they were warmed up, then I unwrapped them from their > > newspaper > > > and placed them on the bottom of my tank in gravel. They moved > > around > > > for a few minutes (not all but some) and then all of them > > appeared to > > > die. They never moved again for two days so I panicked that they > > would > > > pollute the tank. I then removed them, placed them in a bowl of tank > > > water and still they have never moved again. I assume they are dead? > > > It has been about three days since they came and I really think they > > > are dead but want to be sure. > > > > > > If they are dead, what would be the reason? I am wondering if the > > > seller at Arizona Aquatic gardens might have kept them in brackish > > > water and failed to tell me this? Would that explain why they died? > > > > > > Thanks for any possible help... > > > > > > Lainey Alexander > > > http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com > <http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com> > > > <http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com > <http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com>> > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 43656	From: Lainey Alexander	Date: 9/30/2009
Subject: Another corpse question, sorry

I apologize for these awful questions. I am missing an ottocinclus and I always try to remove any dead fish promptly, but this one just can't be found. In case he really is dead somewhere out of sight or reach, how dangerous is this for the tank? What happens if a fish dies in a plant or something and we don't find it? Does it pollute the water, or will it simply be eaten and/or decompose harmlessly? Thanks very much, Lainey http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 43657	From: Lainey Alexander	Date: 9/30/2009
Subject: Re: Dead olive nerite snails

My water seems to be very similar to AZ AQ water, and they are saying they don't know what happened to the snails as theirs are kept in FW, but they seem willing to reimburse me. It remains a mystery. I think I will try one more time with some nerites from somewhere else and try to do a better job of talking to the seller about how to introduce them. Lainey http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com On Sep 30, 2009, at 5:43 PM, Amber Berglund wrote: > What are your water parameters? > I would email AZ and ask them what type of water they keep their > nerite > snails in. > It's possible that they started to die while floating them, as snails > don't need to be floated in the water like fish do, they just need > to be > gradually acclimated to your water, I would have put them in a bowl > and > slowly poured some of your tank water over their newspaper a > trickle at > a time to slowly let them adjust. When you float them in a bag of > water > they can sometimes suffocate or become over heated because the bags of > water are generally very close to the lights while they float > around the > top of the tank. > I don't know what type of water nerite snails normally need, I vaguely > recall that they need brackish water to reproduce though, it is highly > possible that they were shocked from their brackish water (if that's > what they were kept in), and the difference in your tap water. > When I got my mystery snails (apple snails) I put some in my 10 gallon > tank and none of those snails survived, I believe it's because the pH > and hardness levels were too low for them to survive, they died rather > quickly after adding them to that tank, but in all of my other tanks > that I put them in they did great. I keep crushed coral in my > filters in > my bigger tanks though, I didn't have any in my 10 gallon that I put > them in, so I think that's why they didn't survive. > It's just possible that the change in water was too much for the > snails, > especially if your pH is very different from the shipper. > > Amber > > Lainey Alexander wrote: > > > > > > The strange part of it was that they appeared to be alive when they > > got into the water, but only for a very short time... > > > > Lainey > > http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com <http:// > www.grasslandsgouldians.com> > > > > On Sep 30, 2009, at 2:30 PM, Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > > > > > While newspaper can probably work for multiples of Mystery Snails, > > > but if > > > shipped only one per bag, they would not bang together. I'm not > > > sure if > > > Nerite snails have a breathing tube and lung like Mystery snails > > > have. I > > > did do some more reading on them and apparently they do like an > air > > > space > > > above the water line and will spend time out of the water so I > > > guess they > > > can stay out of water for a while... I'm just not certain how > long. > > > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the > > > right > > > side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, > > > Month) > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On > > > Behalf Of Amber Berglund > > > Sent: Tuesday, September 29, 2009 11:54 PM > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife% > 40yahoogroups.com> > > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Dead olive nerite snails > > > > > > Actually packing snails in wet newspaper is quite normal for > > > shipping them > > > Lenny. I found out the hard way that it's actually better to > have them > > > shipped that way than in bags of water, as snails will bang around > > > and crack > > > their shells in bags of water, but in newspaper they can still > > > breathe air > > > and they stay moist with no ill effects. > > > But yes, they should have given acclimation procedures, or at > least > > > tank > > > parameters so the buyer knows how to prepare for the snails. > > > > > > Amber > > > > > > Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > Did you call AZ. Aquatic Gardens to let them know that the > snails > > > did > > > > not appear to be very well when you got them? I'm not sure > how long > > > > their "arrive alive" guarantee is for but you should notify them > > > ASAP > > > > to avail yourself of any rights you may have. > > > > > > > > Yes, if they kept them in brackish water and then sent them > to you, > > > > they should have advised you of same so that you could properly > > > > acclimate them for at least several days to a week... maybe > longer. > > > > They should have provided acclimation procedures, including the > > > > salinity level of their water. > > > > > > > > Am I reading you right, that the snails were wrapped in > newspaper > > > and > > > > not in bags of water like fish would be shipped? That doesn't > sound > > > > right either. > > > > > > > > The way to know if they are alive or dead is to give them the > > > smell test. > > > > Pick them up out of the water and smell one at a time. The > dead ones > > > > should basically stink to high heaven, at least Mystery > Snails do > > > when > > > > they die. > > > > If they don't stink, then they could possibly still be alive. > > > > > > > > Regardless, you should contact AAG right away and talk to > them to > > > see > > > > if they will honor any guarantee they may have. > > > > > > > > Years ago, I heard several bad things about AZ. Aquatic Gardens > > > but I > > > > thought they cleared up their BBBOnline complaints back then. > I hope > > > > they are not up to their misdeeds again. > > > > > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>> > > (Links to any articles referenced in > > > > above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under > > > Labels > > > > and also under Archives by Year, Month) > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On Behalf Of Lainey > > > Alexander > > > > Sent: Tuesday, September 29, 2009 8:45 PM > > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife% > > > 40yahoogroups.com> > > > > Subject: [AquaticLife] Dead olive nerite snails > > > > > > > > Hi Everyone - > > > > > > > > I am new to the group and I have a question/problem about > snails. > > > > > > > > I purchased a number of Olive Nerite snails by mail-order and > when > > > > they arrived I floated them in my 37g freshwater planted tank, > > > waited > > > > until they were warmed up, then I unwrapped them from their > > > newspaper > > > > and placed them on the bottom of my tank in gravel. They moved > > > around > > > > for a few minutes (not all but some) and then all of them > > > appeared to > > > > die. They never moved again for two days so I panicked that they > > > would > > > > pollute the tank. I then removed them, placed them in a bowl > of tank > > > > water and still they have never moved again. I assume they > are dead? > > > > It has been about three days since they came and I really > think they > > > > are dead but want to be sure. > > > > > > > > If they are dead, what would be the reason? I am wondering if > the > > > > seller at Arizona Aquatic gardens might have kept them in > brackish > > > > water and failed to tell me this? Would that explain why they > died? > > > > > > > > Thanks for any possible help... > > > > > > > > Lainey Alexander > > > > http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com > > <http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com> > > > > <http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com > > <http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com>> > > > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 43658	From: Donna Ransome	Date: 9/30/2009
Subject: Re: Dead olive nerite snails

I’ve heard the same thing about actual marine nerites (not olives) added to a freshwater tank. I assume something similar to what would happen if you put a saltwater fish in a freshwater tank. _____ From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Lainey Alexander Sent: Wednesday, September 30, 2009 2:33 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Dead olive nerite snails The strange part of it was that they appeared to be alive when they got into the water, but only for a very short time... Lainey http://www.grasslan <http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com> dsgouldians.com On Sep 30, 2009, at 2:30 PM, Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > While newspaper can probably work for multiples of Mystery Snails, > but if > shipped only one per bag, they would not bang together. I'm not > sure if > Nerite snails have a breathing tube and lung like Mystery snails > have. I > did do some more reading on them and apparently they do like an air > space > above the water line and will spend time out of the water so I > guess they > can stay out of water for a while... I'm just not certain how long. > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> blogspot.com > (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the > right > side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, > Month) > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com > [mailto:AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com] On > Behalf Of Amber Berglund > Sent: Tuesday, September 29, 2009 11:54 PM > To: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Dead olive nerite snails > > Actually packing snails in wet newspaper is quite normal for > shipping them > Lenny. I found out the hard way that it's actually better to have them > shipped that way than in bags of water, as snails will bang around > and crack > their shells in bags of water, but in newspaper they can still > breathe air > and they stay moist with no ill effects. > But yes, they should have given acclimation procedures, or at least > tank > parameters so the buyer knows how to prepare for the snails. > > Amber > > Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > > > > > > Did you call AZ. Aquatic Gardens to let them know that the snails > did > > not appear to be very well when you got them? I'm not sure how long > > their "arrive alive" guarantee is for but you should notify them > ASAP > > to avail yourself of any rights you may have. > > > > Yes, if they kept them in brackish water and then sent them to you, > > they should have advised you of same so that you could properly > > acclimate them for at least several days to a week... maybe longer. > > They should have provided acclimation procedures, including the > > salinity level of their water. > > > > Am I reading you right, that the snails were wrapped in newspaper > and > > not in bags of water like fish would be shipped? That doesn't sound > > right either. > > > > The way to know if they are alive or dead is to give them the > smell test. > > Pick them up out of the water and smell one at a time. The dead ones > > should basically stink to high heaven, at least Mystery Snails do > when > > they die. > > If they don't stink, then they could possibly still be alive. > > > > Regardless, you should contact AAG right away and talk to them to > see > > if they will honor any guarantee they may have. > > > > Years ago, I heard several bad things about AZ. Aquatic Gardens > but I > > thought they cleared up their BBBOnline complaints back then. I hope > > they are not up to their misdeeds again. > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> blogspot.com > > <http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> blogspot.com> (Links to any articles referenced in > > above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under > Labels > > and also under Archives by Year, Month) > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > [mailto:AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On Behalf Of Lainey > Alexander > > Sent: Tuesday, September 29, 2009 8:45 PM > > To: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife% > 40yahoogroups.com> > > Subject: [AquaticLife] Dead olive nerite snails > > > > Hi Everyone - > > > > I am new to the group and I have a question/problem about snails. > > > > I purchased a number of Olive Nerite snails by mail-order and when > > they arrived I floated them in my 37g freshwater planted tank, > waited > > until they were warmed up, then I unwrapped them from their > newspaper > > and placed them on the bottom of my tank in gravel. They moved > around > > for a few minutes (not all but some) and then all of them > appeared to > > die. They never moved again for two days so I panicked that they > would > > pollute the tank. I then removed them, placed them in a bowl of tank > > water and still they have never moved again. I assume they are dead? > > It has been about three days since they came and I really think they > > are dead but want to be sure. > > > > If they are dead, what would be the reason? I am wondering if the > > seller at Arizona Aquatic gardens might have kept them in brackish > > water and failed to tell me this? Would that explain why they died? > > > > Thanks for any possible help... > > > > Lainey Alexander > > http://www.grasslan <http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com> dsgouldians.com > > <http://www.grasslan <http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com> dsgouldians.com> > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 43659	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 9/30/2009
Subject: Re: Another corpse question, sorry

A small fish like that is probably hiding but it could have become a snack to one of your other fish or if it died, it would probably be snacked on. That still means a high protein food being consumed by the other fish so you should do an extra PWC or two to remove/dilute the added waste in the tank and all should be OK. If the fish shows up, well, the extra PWC's didn't hurt anything. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Lainey Alexander Sent: Wednesday, September 30, 2009 5:38 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Another corpse question, sorry I apologize for these awful questions. I am missing an ottocinclus and I always try to remove any dead fish promptly, but this one just can't be found. In case he really is dead somewhere out of sight or reach, how dangerous is this for the tank? What happens if a fish dies in a plant or something and we don't find it? Does it pollute the water, or will it simply be eaten and/or decompose harmlessly? Thanks very much, Lainey http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 43660	From: Donna Ransome	Date: 9/30/2009
Subject: Re: Dead olive nerite snails

Well maybe AZ didn’t do such a bad job. She says: I am really low on nerites right now. Been having a difficult time getting them into the country and getting them in healthy. You are welcome to pass on my contact info. I hope to be getting stock in ASAP. The only contact info I have for her is via forums. On www.eastcoastcichlids.org her screen name is msjinkzd. _____ From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Lainey Alexander Sent: Wednesday, September 30, 2009 11:33 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Dead olive nerite snails Hi Donna - Would you mind giving me your nerite contact's name? I am not going to take a chance on more snails from AZ. Thanks, Lainey http://www.grasslan <http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com> dsgouldians.com On Sep 30, 2009, at 5:53 AM, Donna Ransome wrote: > I agree with Amber, packing in damp newspaper is how I received my > nerites. > I have zebras, not olives. I know a vendor that acclimates them for > you if > you'd rather get a refund from AZ and buy from my contact. She is a > hobbyist.I have 12 of her zebra nerites. I had no problem when they > arrived, but you DO have to have lots of algae.they really don't eat > anything else, not algae wafers, not veges. Their biggest risk is > starvation and I HAVE lost a couple (after many months) due to "too > clean" > tanks. > > I really like them though so I'm trying to find the balance of plants, > light, fertilizer and algae that will make everyone happy. > > Mine moved right away as soon as they hit the substrate. At a > snail's pace > of course, LOL. > > _____ > > From: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com > [mailto:AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com] On > Behalf Of Lenny V. aka GoldLenny > Sent: Tuesday, September 29, 2009 11:40 PM > To: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Dead olive nerite snails > > Did you call AZ. Aquatic Gardens to let them know that the snails > did not > appear to be very well when you got them? I'm not sure how long their > "arrive alive" guarantee is for but you should notify them ASAP to > avail > yourself of any rights you may have. > > Yes, if they kept them in brackish water and then sent them to you, > they > should have advised you of same so that you could properly > acclimate them > for at least several days to a week... maybe longer. They should have > provided acclimation procedures, including the salinity level of their > water. > > Am I reading you right, that the snails were wrapped in newspaper > and not in > bags of water like fish would be shipped? That doesn't sound right > either. > > The way to know if they are alive or dead is to give them the smell > test. > Pick them up out of the water and smell one at a time. The dead > ones should > basically stink to high heaven, at least Mystery Snails do when > they die. > If they don't stink, then they could possibly still be alive. > > Regardless, you should contact AAG right away and talk to them to > see if > they will honor any guarantee they may have. > > Years ago, I heard several bad things about AZ. Aquatic Gardens but I > thought they cleared up their BBBOnline complaints back then. I > hope they > are not up to their misdeeds again. > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> blogspot.com> > blogspot.com > (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the > right > side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, > Month) > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > yahoogroups.com > [mailto:AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > yahoogroups.com] > On > Behalf Of Lainey Alexander > Sent: Tuesday, September 29, 2009 8:45 PM > To: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > yahoogroups.com > Subject: [AquaticLife] Dead olive nerite snails > > Hi Everyone - > > I am new to the group and I have a question/problem about snails. > > I purchased a number of Olive Nerite snails by mail-order and when > they > arrived I floated them in my 37g freshwater planted tank, waited > until they > were warmed up, then I unwrapped them from their newspaper and > placed them > on the bottom of my tank in gravel. They moved around for a few > minutes (not > all but some) and then all of them appeared to die. They never > moved again > for two days so I panicked that they would pollute the tank. I then > removed > them, placed them in a bowl of tank water and still they have never > moved > again. I assume they are dead? It has been about three days since > they came > and I really think they are dead but want to be sure. > > If they are dead, what would be the reason? I am wondering if the > seller at > Arizona Aquatic gardens might have kept them in brackish water and > failed to > tell me this? Would that explain why they died? > > Thanks for any possible help... > > Lainey Alexander > http://www.grasslan <http://www.grasslan <http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com> dsgouldians.com> > dsgouldians.com > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 43661	From: Cee Jaye	Date: 10/1/2009
Subject: Re: CL 4000gal free tank

Thank you very much Lenny!! Tara -------Original Message------- From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny Date: 9/30/2009 3:41:04 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] CL 4000gal free tank Here's the thread. http://pets.groups.yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife/message/43564 Here's the link. http://orlando.craigslist.org/zip/1377286878.html Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Cee Jaye Sent: Wednesday, September 30, 2009 12:51 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] CL 4000gal free tank Does anyone still have the link to the add? I just want to show it to my mom ) Thanks LOL Tara ------------------------------------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the home page. Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com to receive the digest, which includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com for the No E-Mail option where you will still be able to read messages on the group and post replies. Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com to receive individual e-mails Yahoo! Groups Links [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 43662	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 10/1/2009
Subject: Baby snails, everywhere.

Okay so my mystery snails are growing up well, they are about the size of frozen pea's at this point. I have lots of magenta ones, some dark purple ones, and a few white ones oddly enough. I have recently lost a couple of my older snails, not sure why, perhaps another water filled lung, not sure, but it was laying dead on the bottom of the tank, and the other one was found the same a few weeks ago. I have considered selling the snails to my LFS but I've watched a lot of snails just die there and I'd hate to watch all my pretty purple snails die in their tanks because the water is way too soft. *sigh* I told them why it happens and was ignored. Oh well. I suppose I could try a local ad in the newspaper. Amber

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 43663	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 10/2/2009
Subject: BN Pleco's

so my 2 albino BN pleco's that I got from Pam are starting to show bristles are their noses, but they aren't very long yet. Do the male's grow bristles younger than the females or is it around the same age? They were about 6 months when I got them I think, and that was in June. The bristles seem to grow about as slow as the pleco's do ;) But I did notice that the one in the 125 gallon grew much faster than the one in the 55 gallon, and they were the same age. The brown ones are still not showing any bristles yet, but they are getting bigger, so that's good ;) LOL. The bristles definitely do not look like the full grown males in pictures I have seen, so either they're females or they still have a bit of growing to do ;) I will get a current pic tonight or this weekend and see if anyone in the group can tell their gender yet ;) They are easily 3 inches or more now though and nice and chubby looking, LOL. Amber

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 43664	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 10/2/2009
Subject: Bloated dwarf gourami

Forgot to update on my dwarf gourami that was very bloated. He passed away early last week, I was just about to start the 2nd week dosing when he passed on. He did get better, but I don't think it was soon enough, the bloating went down to about half as bloated but he never went back to normal in the first week. I haven't had very good luck with the dwarf gourami's that I've bought from my LFS, so I'm thinking I won't replace him for that reason. Not to mention they ONLY get males *sigh*. I haven't even been out to the LFS in almost a month, and haven't bought fish from them since early this summer as well. I may be boycotting just a little bit ;) LOL. Amber

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 43665	From: Lainey Alexander	Date: 10/2/2009
Subject: Feeding carnivores

Hi Everyone - I would like to know what to do about fish that will only eat frozen meats IE brine shrimp, bloodworms etc. If this is all they will eat, will this be enough proper nutrition for them? Or is there something else I should be offering? Many of my fish won't eat flakes or pellets, only the frozen. Thank you, Lainey http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 43666	From: bill 1433	Date: 10/2/2009
Subject: Re: Feeding carnivores

Hi Lainey,   There are two very important questions that need answering before ANY of us can offer you advise.   First, what type of fish are they?  i.e. Cichlids Second, Where are they from?  Tank raised or Wild?   Bill --- On Fri, 10/2/09, Lainey Alexander <lainealex@...> wrote: From: Lainey Alexander <lainealex@...> Subject: [AquaticLife] Feeding carnivores To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Date: Friday, October 2, 2009, 5:44 PM Hi Everyone - I would like to know what to do about fish that will only eat frozen  meats IE brine shrimp, bloodworms etc. If this is all they will eat,  will this be enough proper nutrition for them? Or is there something  else I should be offering? Many of my fish won't eat flakes or  pellets, only the frozen. Thank you, Lainey http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] ------------------------------------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the home page.  Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com to receive the digest, which includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com for the No E-Mail option where you will still be able to read messages on the group and post replies. Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com to receive individual e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 43667	From: biG poppa	Date: 10/2/2009
Subject: Re: Bloated dwarf gourami

same here Amber i list 2 pairs of dwarf blue powder gouramies i dont know why also with clown loaches two --- On Fri, 10/2/09, Amber Berglund <arberglund@...> wrote: From: Amber Berglund <arberglund@...> Subject: [AquaticLife] Bloated dwarf gourami To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Date: Friday, October 2, 2009, 5:40 PM   Forgot to update on my dwarf gourami that was very bloated. He passed away early last week, I was just about to start the 2nd week dosing when he passed on. He did get better, but I don't think it was soon enough, the bloating went down to about half as bloated but he never went back to normal in the first week. I haven't had very good luck with the dwarf gourami's that I've bought from my LFS, so I'm thinking I won't replace him for that reason. Not to mention they ONLY get males *sigh*. I haven't even been out to the LFS in almost a month, and haven't bought fish from them since early this summer as well. I may be boycotting just a little bit ;) LOL. Amber [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 43668	From: Lainey Alexander	Date: 10/2/2009
Subject: Re: Feeding carnivores

Hi Bill - I have an amazingly gentle dwarf puffer, two bumblebee gobies, Siamese algae eaters, cory catfish, rummy-nose tetras, a few not-very- happy otocinclus and one pair of blue rams. I am feeding flakes in the AM and frozen brine shrimp or bloodworms each night, and I am offering sinking pellets once or twice per week plus algae pellets about once per week. Although I have had many aquariums, I have never tried this hard before to do it correctly, if there is such a thing. This is a densely planted 37g tank with CO2. I have heard and read so much conflicting material about feeding that I really don't know what is best. The tetras eat everything, as do the rams and the SAEs and cories. But the bumblebees and the DP won't eat anything other than the frozen meat and I'm not sure if they are getting adequate nutrition. I am also not sure if I am overfeeding the others but I only feed as much as they consume in five minutes per serving and have no ammonia, nitrates, nitrite or phosphates. I don't know anything about the origins of the DP and bumblebees - they came from a high-end store in Greenwich CT. Any feedback would be appreciated! Lainey http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com On Oct 2, 2009, at 6:21 PM, bill 1433 wrote: > Hi Lainey, > > There are two very important questions that need answering > before ANY of us can offer you advise. > > First, what type of fish are they? i.e. Cichlids > > Second, Where are they from? Tank raised or Wild? > > Bill > > --- On Fri, 10/2/09, Lainey Alexander <lainealex@...> wrote: > > From: Lainey Alexander <lainealex@...> > Subject: [AquaticLife] Feeding carnivores > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Date: Friday, October 2, 2009, 5:44 PM > > Hi Everyone - > > I would like to know what to do about fish that will only eat frozen > meats IE brine shrimp, bloodworms etc. If this is all they will eat, > will this be enough proper nutrition for them? Or is there something > else I should be offering? Many of my fish won't eat flakes or > pellets, only the frozen. > > Thank you, > > Lainey > http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > ------------------------------------ > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, > Thank You. > ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..>< > ((((º> > PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT > important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original > message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old > subject)" <- > <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><· > ´¯`·.¸¸. > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. > > If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of > unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by clicking on > "Edit My Membership" on the home page. > > Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com to receive the digest, > which includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email > > Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com for the No E-Mail > option where you will still be able to read messages on the group > and post replies. > > Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com to receive individual e- > mails.Yahoo! Groups Links > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 43669	From: sevenspringss@wmconnect.com	Date: 10/3/2009
Subject: Re: Feeding carnivores

Lainey, I understand your concern for your fishes getting proper nutrition. Most often, frozen foods will be more nutritious than flake or pellets, provided they are of a variety that will offer such nutrition. Frozen brine shrimp does not offer a lot in the way of nutrition, but bloodworms are one of the most nutrious foods you can offer. As a variety is always preferable, you might want to look into feeding other more nutritious frozen foods as well, such as mysis shrimp. You're lucky that your Bumble Bee Gobies are accepting frozen foods as they often prefer nothing but live foods. Know too that, as these Gobies are primarily found in the mouths of rivers in the Far East, they should be maintained in at least slightly brackish water -- even though they travel up into fresh water while they are still small. Adults are most often the ones that inhabit the inlets in a brackish environment. For this reason, 1 to 2 tsp. of salt per gallon should be added to these Gobies' water. As can be seen by this, they really belong in a separate brackish water tank, as such water is not condusive for best maintenance of Cories or Tetras; they're simply not happy IF they were to survive in this level of salt -- which is questionable. Then too, as your Gobies get older, they may well not enjoy good longevity if kept in fresh water. You should know too, besides their becoming more bottom-oriented as they mature, they are apt to become fin-nippers as they grow. A real different and nicely-colored fish, but they also have different needs. Ray [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 43670	From: kuradi8	Date: 10/3/2009
Subject: Re: Feeding carnivores

On the other hand, if you would like to get some flakes or pellets for variety and convenience, I get my fish food from http://www.flguppiesplus.com/ Beef heart, earthworm, meaty mix and spirulina are some of their flake varieties. My fish like the pellet "formulas." Price list at: http://store.fastcommerce.com/cat_flguppiesplus-ff80818118f52a870118f58db26d0a4f.html They're nice folks and super helpful. ~Kai --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, sevenspringss@... wrote: > > Lainey, I understand your concern for your fishes getting proper > nutrition. Most often, frozen foods will be more nutritious than flake or pellets, > provided they are of a variety that will offer such nutrition. Frozen brine > shrimp does not offer a lot in the way of nutrition, but bloodworms are one > of the most nutrious foods you can offer. As a variety is always > preferable, you might want to look into feeding other more nutritious frozen foods as > well, such as mysis shrimp. > > You're lucky that your Bumble Bee Gobies are accepting frozen foods as they > often prefer nothing but live foods. Know too that, as these Gobies are > primarily found in the mouths of rivers in the Far East, they should be > maintained in at least slightly brackish water -- even though they travel up into > fresh water while they are still small. Adults are most often the ones that > inhabit the inlets in a brackish environment. For this reason, 1 to 2 tsp. > of salt per gallon should be added to these Gobies' water. As can be seen > by this, they really belong in a separate brackish water tank, as such water > is not condusive for best maintenance of Cories or Tetras; they're simply > not happy IF they were to survive in this level of salt -- which is > questionable. Then too, as your Gobies get older, they may well not enjoy good > longevity if kept in fresh water. You should know too, besides their becoming > more bottom-oriented as they mature, they are apt to become fin-nippers as > they grow. A real different and nicely-colored fish, but they also have > different needs. Ray > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 43671	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 10/3/2009
Subject: Buttkiss, the 41 Year Old Pacu - Paw Nation

Fish CAN live a long time. http://www.pawnation.com/2009/10/01/buttkiss-the-41-year-old-pacu/?icid= main%7Chtmlws-main%7Cdl3%7Clink3%7Chttp%3A%2F%2Fwww.pawnation.com%2F2009 %2F10%2F01%2Fbuttkiss-the-41-year-old-pacu%2F http://tinyurl.com/ycm9686 \\Steve//

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 43672	From: Lainey Alexander	Date: 10/3/2009
Subject: Re: Feeding carnivores

Thanks, Ray. Do you think vitamins are needed in addition to the more nutritious frozen foods, or do the foods themselves have enough nutrition, if a variety is fed? Also, how many times per day should FW fish be fed, ideally? I have been told anything from five times per day to once every other day! Lainey http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com On Oct 3, 2009, at 7:35 AM, sevenspringss@... wrote: > As a variety is always > preferable, you might want to look into feeding other more > nutritious frozen foods as > well, such as mysis shrimp. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 43673	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 10/3/2009
Subject: Re: Feeding carnivores

I think twice a day is good for adult fish. Enough food that they consume it all in a few minutes. More active fish with higher metabolisms need more food. More sedentary fish with slower metabolisms need less food. In the wild, fish spend most of their waking moments looking for food and eating it. Five times a day would be a good schedule for newborn fry, just like with newborn human babies. They have their highest metabolism and growth rates during the first few months to a year so they do need more frequent meals during these times, tapering off to twice a day once they are full sized adults. For big fish, you can estimate or figure out their actual weight and then feed them 1% to 5% of their body weight each day, divided into a couple of meals, depending once again, on their activity level. For smaller fish, the three to five minutes of food seems to have worked for many years. I think the every other day thing came about from folks who had water quality issues and thought that by feeding their fish less often, the fish wouldn't poop as often and then they wouldn't have to do tank maintenance as often. I compare this thought process to new parents not feeding their baby as often so they don't have to change diapers as often. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Lainey Alexander Sent: Saturday, October 03, 2009 10:30 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Feeding carnivores Thanks, Ray. Do you think vitamins are needed in addition to the more nutritious frozen foods, or do the foods themselves have enough nutrition, if a variety is fed? Also, how many times per day should FW fish be fed, ideally? I have been told anything from five times per day to once every other day! Lainey http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com On Oct 3, 2009, at 7:35 AM, sevenspringss@... wrote: > As a variety is always > preferable, you might want to look into feeding other more nutritious > frozen foods as well, such as mysis shrimp.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 43674	From: Donna Ransome	Date: 10/3/2009
Subject: Re: Feeding carnivores

With Malawi cichlids it's quite common to fast them one day/week. Never heard it connecting to pooping though. However Malawi can also go a month without eating (when they mouthbrood) so it's no hardship for them. I think my fellow cichlid feeders probably feed once/day. In the end it doesn't matter for the cichlids as long as 2X per day would equate to half the food each time. _____ From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Lenny V. aka GoldLenny Sent: Saturday, October 03, 2009 12:36 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Feeding carnivores I think twice a day is good for adult fish. Enough food that they consume it all in a few minutes. More active fish with higher metabolisms need more food. More sedentary fish with slower metabolisms need less food. In the wild, fish spend most of their waking moments looking for food and eating it. Five times a day would be a good schedule for newborn fry, just like with newborn human babies. They have their highest metabolism and growth rates during the first few months to a year so they do need more frequent meals during these times, tapering off to twice a day once they are full sized adults. For big fish, you can estimate or figure out their actual weight and then feed them 1% to 5% of their body weight each day, divided into a couple of meals, depending once again, on their activity level. For smaller fish, the three to five minutes of food seems to have worked for many years. I think the every other day thing came about from folks who had water quality issues and thought that by feeding their fish less often, the fish wouldn't poop as often and then they wouldn't have to do tank maintenance as often. I compare this thought process to new parents not feeding their baby as often so they don't have to change diapers as often. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Lainey Alexander Sent: Saturday, October 03, 2009 10:30 AM To: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Feeding carnivores Thanks, Ray. Do you think vitamins are needed in addition to the more nutritious frozen foods, or do the foods themselves have enough nutrition, if a variety is fed? Also, how many times per day should FW fish be fed, ideally? I have been told anything from five times per day to once every other day! Lainey http://www.grasslan <http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com> dsgouldians.com On Oct 3, 2009, at 7:35 AM, sevenspringss@ <mailto:sevenspringss%40wmconnect.com> wmconnect.com wrote: > As a variety is always > preferable, you might want to look into feeding other more nutritious > frozen foods as well, such as mysis shrimp. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 43675	From: Lainey Alexander	Date: 10/6/2009
Subject: Questions about water

Hi Everyone - I am struggling with water issues. First of all, my tap comes from a deep very clean well that has impotably hard water which must be softened. I use a potassium chloride softener. The water has been tested and it is very good clean water, but I honestly don't know if it will be a problem long term for the fish. The KH is seven for the tap water and the pH is 7.9. So what I do for the 37g fish tank is to add one part distilled to three parts tap and then, with my co2 diffuser, I get to about 7 for pH with about 5 for KH. So first question is: will the softened tap water be a long term problem for the fish? Do other people use softened tap water? Second question is: I want to set up a quarantine tank today, but I can't get another co2 diffuser for it which means that unless I use mainly disltilled, with just a splash of tap, I will be getting a high pH for the quarantine since I will be using siphoned water from the main tank and without the co2, the pH will be around 7.7. But if I use primarily distilled for the quarantine, then the KH will drop and I'm not sure that I will be able to maintain a steady pH with such low KH:) Advise would be appreciated! Thank you, Lainey http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 43676	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 10/6/2009
Subject: Re: Questions about water

First, we need to get you out of your mindset that you have bad water. A pH of 7.9 is NOT bad. In fact, once the ecology of the tank takes over, with the fish, plants, microbiology, etc., has their effect on the water, the pH, KH and GH WILL come down. That is an inevitable fact of water in an aquarium, unless one is adding something like crushed coral or cuttlebone to their tank to constantly raise the pH and harness levels. Is the 7.9 pH and 7 dKH your results after going through the potassium chloride softener or before? Do you know your GH level? It's also a GREAT idea to do a 48 hour baseline test on your water. See my blog article. http://goldlenny.blogspot.com/2007/05/find-your-tap-source-water-baseline.ht ml Let us know your 48 hour tap water baseline results for all of your tests. You do NOT want to use "primarily distilled" water as distilled water does not contain the necessary minerals and electrolytes needed to sustain life. What kind of fish do you have and do you have plants that can tolerate your harder water? Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Lainey Alexander Sent: Tuesday, October 06, 2009 10:28 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Questions about water Hi Everyone - I am struggling with water issues. First of all, my tap comes from a deep very clean well that has impotably hard water which must be softened. I use a potassium chloride softener. The water has been tested and it is very good clean water, but I honestly don't know if it will be a problem long term for the fish. The KH is seven for the tap water and the pH is 7.9. So what I do for the 37g fish tank is to add one part distilled to three parts tap and then, with my co2 diffuser, I get to about 7 for pH with about 5 for KH. So first question is: will the softened tap water be a long term problem for the fish? Do other people use softened tap water? Second question is: I want to set up a quarantine tank today, but I can't get another co2 diffuser for it which means that unless I use mainly disltilled, with just a splash of tap, I will be getting a high pH for the quarantine since I will be using siphoned water from the main tank and without the co2, the pH will be around 7.7. But if I use primarily distilled for the quarantine, then the KH will drop and I'm not sure that I will be able to maintain a steady pH with such low KH:) Advise would be appreciated! Thank you, Lainey http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 43677	From: bill 1433	Date: 10/6/2009
Subject: Re: Questions about water

Hi Lainey, I would add to this one simple thing, even BEFORE you start following Lenny's advice on your TREATED water. See if there is anyway at all for you to sample and start the testing as Len mentions, only your well water BEFORE in goes into the softening system. If you have a sampling valve or spigot that you can use. I use straight well water that has NO hardness at all! Do a baseline as Lenny says but if possible on your untreated water, you may be in for some very nice surprises! Remember to test for everything, ammonia, nitrates, the works. You asked about the soften water long-term problems. That's easy to answer. There could be many or non at all, it just depends on the system and your fish that you have to want to have. But there is one thing that is for sure, why put them through it at all if you don't have too! Run a water baseline on your untreated water and see what you come up with. I can tell you one thing for sure, here in Northeastern PA where I live, any softening system or acid regenerator that is hooked up into a well system does change the water's hardness levels considerably as well as the pH Bill --- On Tue, 10/6/09, Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@...> wrote: From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@...> Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Questions about water To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Date: Tuesday, October 6, 2009, 1:20 PM First, we need to get you out of your mindset that you have bad water.  A pH of 7.9 is NOT bad.  In fact, once the ecology of the tank takes over, with the fish, plants, microbiology, etc., has their effect on the water, the pH, KH and GH WILL come down.  That is an inevitable fact of water in an aquarium, unless one is adding something like crushed coral or cuttlebone to their tank to constantly raise the pH and harness levels. Is the 7.9 pH and 7 dKH your results after going through the potassium chloride softener or before?  Do you know your GH level? It's also a GREAT idea to do a 48 hour baseline test on your water.  See my blog article. http://goldlenny.blogspot.com/2007/05/find-your-tap-source-water-baseline.ht ml Let us know your 48 hour tap water baseline results for all of your tests. You do NOT want to use "primarily distilled" water as distilled water does not contain the necessary minerals and electrolytes needed to sustain life. What kind of fish do you have and do you have plants that can tolerate your harder water? Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Lainey Alexander Sent: Tuesday, October 06, 2009 10:28 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Questions about water Hi Everyone - I am struggling with water issues. First of all, my tap comes from a deep very clean well that has impotably hard water which  must be softened. I use a potassium chloride softener. The water has been tested and it is very good clean water, but I honestly don't know if it will be a problem long term for the fish. The KH is seven for the tap water and the pH is 7.9. So what I do for the 37g fish tank is to add one part distilled to three parts tap and then, with my co2 diffuser, I get to about 7 for pH with about 5 for KH. So first question is: will the softened tap water be a long term problem for the fish? Do other people use softened tap water? Second question is: I want to set up a quarantine tank today, but I can't get another co2 diffuser for it which means that unless I use mainly disltilled, with just a splash of tap, I will be getting a high pH for the quarantine since I will be using siphoned water from the main tank and without the co2, the pH will be around 7.7. But if I use primarily distilled for the quarantine, then the KH will drop and I'm not sure that I will be able to maintain a steady pH with such low KH:) Advise would be appreciated! Thank you, Lainey http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com ------------------------------------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the home page.  Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com to receive the digest, which includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com for the No E-Mail option where you will still be able to read messages on the group and post replies. Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com to receive individual e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 43678	From: Lainey Alexander	Date: 10/6/2009
Subject: Re: Questions about water

Bill - My well water is severely impotable due to very high levels of manganese and iron - it's just awful stuff that burns your mouth and so on. We have to run it thru sand filters and softeners just to even put it through an RO for drinking! Also, it has lots of radon. Lainey http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com On Oct 6, 2009, at 3:18 PM, bill 1433 wrote: > Hi Lainey, > > I would add to this one simple thing, even BEFORE you start following > Lenny's advice on your TREATED water. > > See if there is anyway at all for you to sample and start the > testing as > Len mentions, only your well water BEFORE in goes into the > softening system. If you have a sampling valve or spigot that you > can use. I use straight well water that has NO hardness at all! > > Do a baseline as Lenny says but if possible on your untreated > water, you may be in for some very nice surprises! Remember to test > for everything, ammonia, nitrates, the works. You asked about the > soften water long-term problems. That's easy to answer. There could > be many or non at all, it just depends on the system and your fish > that you have to want to have. > > But there is one thing that is for sure, why put them through it at > all if you don't have too! Run a water baseline on your untreated > water and see what you come up with. I can tell you one thing for > sure, here in Northeastern PA where I live, any softening system or > acid regenerator that is hooked up into a well system does change > the water's hardness levels considerably as well as the pH > > Bill > > --- On Tue, 10/6/09, Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@...> > wrote: > > From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@...> > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Questions about water > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Date: Tuesday, October 6, 2009, 1:20 PM > > First, we need to get you out of your mindset that you have bad > water. A pH > of 7.9 is NOT bad. In fact, once the ecology of the tank takes > over, with > the fish, plants, microbiology, etc., has their effect on the > water, the pH, > KH and GH WILL come down. That is an inevitable fact of water in an > aquarium, unless one is adding something like crushed coral or > cuttlebone to > their tank to constantly raise the pH and harness levels. > > Is the 7.9 pH and 7 dKH your results after going through the potassium > chloride softener or before? Do you know your GH level? > > It's also a GREAT idea to do a 48 hour baseline test on your > water. See my > blog article. > http://goldlenny.blogspot.com/2007/05/find-your-tap-source-water- > baseline.ht > ml > > Let us know your 48 hour tap water baseline results for all of your > tests. > > You do NOT want to use "primarily distilled" water as distilled > water does > not contain the necessary minerals and electrolytes needed to > sustain life. > > What kind of fish do you have and do you have plants that can > tolerate your > harder water? > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the > right > side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, > Month) > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On > Behalf Of Lainey Alexander > Sent: Tuesday, October 06, 2009 10:28 AM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Subject: [AquaticLife] Questions about water > > Hi Everyone - > > I am struggling with water issues. First of all, my tap comes from > a deep > very clean well that has impotably hard water which must be > softened. I use > a potassium chloride softener. The water has been tested and it is > very good > clean water, but I honestly don't know if it will be a problem long > term for > the fish. The KH is seven for the tap water and the pH is 7.9. > > So what I do for the 37g fish tank is to add one part distilled to > three > parts tap and then, with my co2 diffuser, I get to about 7 for pH > with about > 5 for KH. > > So first question is: will the softened tap water be a long term > problem for > the fish? Do other people use softened tap water? > > Second question is: I want to set up a quarantine tank today, but I > can't > get another co2 diffuser for it which means that unless I use mainly > disltilled, with just a splash of tap, I will be getting a high pH > for the > quarantine since I will be using siphoned water from the main tank and > without the co2, the pH will be around 7.7. > > But if I use primarily distilled for the quarantine, then the KH > will drop > and I'm not sure that I will be able to maintain a steady pH with > such low > KH:) > > Advise would be appreciated! > > Thank you, > > Lainey > http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com > > ------------------------------------ > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, > Thank You. > ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..>< > ((((º> > PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT > important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original > message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old > subject)" <- > <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><· > ´¯`·.¸¸. > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. > > If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of > unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by clicking on > "Edit My Membership" on the home page. > > Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com to receive the digest, > which includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email > > Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com for the No E-Mail > option where you will still be able to read messages on the group > and post replies. > > Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com to receive individual e- > mails.Yahoo! Groups Links > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 43679	From: bill 1433	Date: 10/6/2009
Subject: Re: Questions about water

Ooouch!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Then just follow along with the testing as Len mentioned. Are you sure that even with the water sytem that water is safe? I'd double check that one for sure! Good luck, Bill --- On Tue, 10/6/09, Lainey Alexander <lainealex@...> wrote: > From: Lainey Alexander <lainealex@...> > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Questions about water > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Date: Tuesday, October 6, 2009, 3:21 PM > Bill - > > My well water is severely impotable due to very high levels > of  > manganese and iron - it's just awful stuff that burns your > mouth and  > so on. We have to run it thru sand filters and softeners > just to even  > put it through an RO for drinking! Also, it has lots of > radon. > > Lainey > http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com > > On Oct 6, 2009, at 3:18 PM, bill 1433 wrote: > > > Hi Lainey, > > > > I would add to this one simple thing, even BEFORE you > start following > > Lenny's advice on your TREATED water. > > > > See if there is anyway at all for you to sample and > start the  > > testing as > > Len mentions, only your well water BEFORE in goes into > the  > > softening system. If you have a sampling valve or > spigot that you  > > can use. I use straight well water that has NO > hardness at all! > > > > Do a baseline as Lenny says but if possible on your > untreated  > > water, you may be in for some very nice surprises! > Remember to test  > > for everything, ammonia, nitrates, the works. You > asked about the  > > soften water long-term problems. That's easy to > answer. There could  > > be many or non at all, it just depends on the system > and your fish  > > that you have to want to have. > > > > But there is one thing that is for sure, why put them > through it at  > > all if you don't have too! Run a water baseline on > your untreated  > > water and see what you come up with. I can tell you > one thing for  > > sure, here in Northeastern PA where I live, any > softening system or  > > acid regenerator that is hooked up into a well system > does change  > > the water's hardness levels considerably as well as > the pH > > > > Bill > > > > --- On Tue, 10/6/09, Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@...>  > > > wrote: > > > > From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@...> > > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Questions about water > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > Date: Tuesday, October 6, 2009, 1:20 PM > > > > First, we need to get you out of your mindset that you > have bad  > > water.  A pH > > of 7.9 is NOT bad.  In fact, once the ecology of > the tank takes  > > over, with > > the fish, plants, microbiology, etc., has their effect > on the  > > water, the pH, > > KH and GH WILL come down.  That is an inevitable > fact of water in an > > aquarium, unless one is adding something like crushed > coral or  > > cuttlebone to > > their tank to constantly raise the pH and harness > levels. > > > > Is the 7.9 pH and 7 dKH your results after going > through the potassium > > chloride softener or before?  Do you know your GH > level? > > > > It's also a GREAT idea to do a 48 hour baseline test > on your  > > water.  See my > > blog article. > > http://goldlenny.blogspot.com/2007/05/find-your-tap-source-water- > > > baseline.ht > > ml > > > > Let us know your 48 hour tap water baseline results > for all of your  > > tests. > > > > You do NOT want to use "primarily distilled" water as > distilled  > > water does > > not contain the necessary minerals and electrolytes > needed to  > > sustain life. > > > > What kind of fish do you have and do you have plants > that can  > > tolerate your > > harder water? > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > > (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are > listed on the  > > right > > side, alphabetically under Labels and also under > Archives by Year,  > > Month) > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com  > > > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] > On > > Behalf Of Lainey Alexander > > Sent: Tuesday, October 06, 2009 10:28 AM > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > Subject: [AquaticLife] Questions about water > > > > Hi Everyone - > > > > I am struggling with water issues. First of all, my > tap comes from  > > a deep > > very clean well that has impotably hard water > which  must be  > > softened. I use > > a potassium chloride softener. The water has been > tested and it is  > > very good > > clean water, but I honestly don't know if it will be a > problem long  > > term for > > the fish. The KH is seven for the tap water and the pH > is 7.9. > > > > So what I do for the 37g fish tank is to add one part > distilled to  > > three > > parts tap and then, with my co2 diffuser, I get to > about 7 for pH  > > with about > > 5 for KH. > > > > So first question is: will the softened tap water be a > long term  > > problem for > > the fish? Do other people use softened tap water? > > > > Second question is: I want to set up a quarantine tank > today, but I  > > can't > > get another co2 diffuser for it which means that > unless I use mainly > > disltilled, with just a splash of tap, I will be > getting a high pH  > > for the > > quarantine since I will be using siphoned water from > the main tank and > > without the co2, the pH will be around 7.7. > > > > But if I use primarily distilled for the quarantine, > then the KH  > > will drop > > and I'm not sure that I will be able to maintain a > steady pH with  > > such low > > KH:) > > > > Advise would be appreciated! > > > > Thank you, > > > > Lainey > > http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com > > > > ------------------------------------ > > > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when > replying,  > > Thank You. > > > ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> > ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..>< > > ((((º> > > PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that > is NOT  > > important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of > the original  > > message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new > subject (was re: old  > > subject)" <- > > > <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. > , .·´¯`·..<º((((><· > > ´¯`·.¸¸. > > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. > > > > If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead > of  > > unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by > clicking on  > > "Edit My Membership" on the home page. > > > > Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com > to receive the digest,  > > which includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single > email > > > > Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com > for the No E-Mail  > > option where you will still be able to read messages > on the group  > > and post replies. > > > > Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com > to receive individual e- > > mails.Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > ------------------------------------ > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when > replying, Thank You. > ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> > ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> > PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is > NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of > the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new > subject (was re: old subject)" <- > <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. > , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. > > If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of > unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by > clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the home page.  > > Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com > to receive the digest, which includes up to 25 posts at a > time in a single email > > Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com > for the No E-Mail option where you will still be able to > read messages on the group and post replies. > > Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com > to receive individual e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links > > >     mailto:AquaticLife-fullfeatured@yahoogroups.com > > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 43680	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 10/6/2009
Subject: Re: Questions about water

OK. You know your water better than I ever could. But still run the 48 hour baseline so we can see what happens to your tap water (after it's gone through your whole house filtering). Usually, the 48 hour parameters will change from how it comes out of the tap. The 48 hour numbers will be your baseline and then when you test your tank, you will be able to see how much the tank's ecology is changing things so you will have a better idea on how often you need to do tank maintenance, etc. You should probably run Purigen or some other advanced chemical filtration media on your tanks to help remove any nasties from your tap water before the fish have deal with it long-term. While you can run water through your RO unit for drinking/cooking water, 100% RO water is not good for the fish, just like distilled water, neither have the necessary minerals and electrolytes necessary to sustain life and would cause severe osmotic stress for fish that are stuck in that water... unless you were going to use RO water and then add something like Kent's RO Right to replace all of the lost minerals and electrolytes. More than likely, just running your well water through your present filtering/softening and then running Purigen in your tank's filter system will be sufficient. You have already been keeping fish anyhow... right? Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Lainey Alexander Sent: Tuesday, October 06, 2009 2:21 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Questions about water Bill - My well water is severely impotable due to very high levels of manganese and iron - it's just awful stuff that burns your mouth and so on. We have to run it thru sand filters and softeners just to even put it through an RO for drinking! Also, it has lots of radon. Lainey http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com On Oct 6, 2009, at 3:18 PM, bill 1433 wrote: > Hi Lainey, > > I would add to this one simple thing, even BEFORE you start following > Lenny's advice on your TREATED water. > > See if there is anyway at all for you to sample and start the testing > as Len mentions, only your well water BEFORE in goes into the > softening system. If you have a sampling valve or spigot that you can > use. I use straight well water that has NO hardness at all! > > Do a baseline as Lenny says but if possible on your untreated water, > you may be in for some very nice surprises! Remember to test for > everything, ammonia, nitrates, the works. You asked about the soften > water long-term problems. That's easy to answer. There could be many > or non at all, it just depends on the system and your fish that you > have to want to have. > > But there is one thing that is for sure, why put them through it at > all if you don't have too! Run a water baseline on your untreated > water and see what you come up with. I can tell you one thing for > sure, here in Northeastern PA where I live, any softening system or > acid regenerator that is hooked up into a well system does change the > water's hardness levels considerably as well as the pH > > Bill > > --- On Tue, 10/6/09, Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@...> > wrote: > > From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@...> > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Questions about water > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Date: Tuesday, October 6, 2009, 1:20 PM > > First, we need to get you out of your mindset that you have bad water. > A pH of 7.9 is NOT bad. In fact, once the ecology of the tank takes > over, with the fish, plants, microbiology, etc., has their effect on > the water, the pH, KH and GH WILL come down. That is an inevitable > fact of water in an aquarium, unless one is adding something like > crushed coral or cuttlebone to their tank to constantly raise the pH > and harness levels. > > Is the 7.9 pH and 7 dKH your results after going through the potassium > chloride softener or before? Do you know your GH level? > > It's also a GREAT idea to do a 48 hour baseline test on your water. > See my blog article. > http://goldlenny.blogspot.com/2007/05/find-your-tap-source-water- > baseline.ht > ml > > Let us know your 48 hour tap water baseline results for all of your > tests. > > You do NOT want to use "primarily distilled" water as distilled water > does not contain the necessary minerals and electrolytes needed to > sustain life. > > What kind of fish do you have and do you have plants that can tolerate > your harder water? > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles > referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically > under Labels and also under Archives by Year, > Month) > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Lainey Alexander > Sent: Tuesday, October 06, 2009 10:28 AM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Subject: [AquaticLife] Questions about water > > Hi Everyone - > > I am struggling with water issues. First of all, my tap comes from a > deep very clean well that has impotably hard water which must be > softened. I use a potassium chloride softener. The water has been > tested and it is very good clean water, but I honestly don't know if > it will be a problem long term for the fish. The KH is seven for the > tap water and the pH is 7.9. > > So what I do for the 37g fish tank is to add one part distilled to > three parts tap and then, with my co2 diffuser, I get to about 7 for > pH with about > 5 for KH. > > So first question is: will the softened tap water be a long term > problem for the fish? Do other people use softened tap water? > > Second question is: I want to set up a quarantine tank today, but I > can't get another co2 diffuser for it which means that unless I use > mainly disltilled, with just a splash of tap, I will be getting a high > pH for the quarantine since I will be using siphoned water from the > main tank and without the co2, the pH will be around 7.7. > > But if I use primarily distilled for the quarantine, then the KH will > drop and I'm not sure that I will be able to maintain a steady pH with > such low > KH:) > > Advise would be appreciated! > > Thank you, > > Lainey > http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 43681	From: Cr3w66	Date: 10/6/2009
Subject: Saltwater Skimmer - Octopus BH 100F

Help! I can't start thing for the life of me - I'm ready to throw it out the window and run it over with my car!! The satisfaction alone would be worth what I paid for it.... Does anyone out there have this skimmer (or similar model)? Can you tell me EXACTLY how to prime the damn thing?! I've been thru numerous threads and reviews and none of the ways mentioned have worked for me. Help Please!

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 43682	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 10/6/2009
Subject: Re: Saltwater Skimmer - Octopus BH 100F

I'm not sure if you read these two but hopefully they'll help. This first thread, the guy had the same exact problem and wrote this review with lots of photos and detailed explanation on how he finally got it going. Read down to the bottom where someone mentioned a possibly easier method. http://www.3reef.com/forums/protein-skimmers/user-review-octopus-bh-100f-522 88.html Also this LONG thread? http://reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=1221868&perpage=25& pagenumber=1 BTW, welcome to the group and we hope you stick around and help others. We need more active saltwater tank keepers. One day, I might even start an SW tank. ;-) Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Cr3w66 Sent: Tuesday, October 06, 2009 5:42 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Saltwater Skimmer - Octopus BH 100F Help! I can't start thing for the life of me - I'm ready to throw it out the window and run it over with my car!! The satisfaction alone would be worth what I paid for it.... Does anyone out there have this skimmer (or similar model)? Can you tell me EXACTLY how to prime the damn thing?! I've been thru numerous threads and reviews and none of the ways mentioned have worked for me. Help Please!

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 43683	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 10/6/2009
Subject: Re: Questions about water

Lainey, I was going to suggest you use the water straight from the well and keep fish that are suitable for that water, but, after hearing more about your well water, this may not be such a good idea. Your best bet it to purchase an RO unit for your aquariums, or use the one you have for drinking water, if it bypasses the softener, though the output may not be quite enough for both tasks. There are recipes for reconstituting RO water to various parameters, or, as Lenny, I think, mentioned, you can use RO Right. As you probably know from your drinking water RO unit, there can be quite a lot of waste water from the RO process. You would need to determine if you can use this water elsewhere, or if it would need to be dumped somewhere \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Lainey Alexander Sent: Tuesday, October 06, 2009 11:28 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Questions about water Hi Everyone - I am struggling with water issues. First of all, my tap comes from a deep very clean well that has impotably hard water which must be softened. I use a potassium chloride softener. The water has been tested and it is very good clean water, but I honestly don't know if it will be a problem long term for the fish. The KH is seven for the tap water and the pH is 7.9. So what I do for the 37g fish tank is to add one part distilled to three parts tap and then, with my co2 diffuser, I get to about 7 for pH with about 5 for KH. So first question is: will the softened tap water be a long term problem for the fish? Do other people use softened tap water? Second question is: I want to set up a quarantine tank today, but I can't get another co2 diffuser for it which means that unless I use mainly disltilled, with just a splash of tap, I will be getting a high pH for the quarantine since I will be using siphoned water from the main tank and without the co2, the pH will be around 7.7. But if I use primarily distilled for the quarantine, then the KH will drop and I'm not sure that I will be able to maintain a steady pH with such low KH:) Advise would be appreciated! Thank you, Lainey http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 43684	From: biG poppa	Date: 10/6/2009
Subject: Re: Saltwater Skimmer - Octopus BH 100F

my wife is trien to get to star a sw 4g nano..but i wount budge..lol --- On Tue, 10/6/09, Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@...> wrote: From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@...> Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Saltwater Skimmer - Octopus BH 100F To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Date: Tuesday, October 6, 2009, 7:37 PM   I'm not sure if you read these two but hopefully they'll help. This first thread, the guy had the same exact problem and wrote this review with lots of photos and detailed explanation on how he finally got it going.. Read down to the bottom where someone mentioned a possibly easier method. http://www.3reef. com/forums/ protein-skimmers /user-review- octopus-bh- 100f-522 88.html Also this LONG thread? http://reefcentral. com/forums/ showthread. php?s=&threadid= 1221868&perpage= 25& pagenumber=1 BTW, welcome to the group and we hope you stick around and help others. We need more active saltwater tank keepers. One day, I might even start an SW tank. ;-) Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com [mailto:AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com] On Behalf Of Cr3w66 Sent: Tuesday, October 06, 2009 5:42 PM To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com Subject: [AquaticLife] Saltwater Skimmer - Octopus BH 100F Help! I can't start thing for the life of me - I'm ready to throw it out the window and run it over with my car!! The satisfaction alone would be worth what I paid for it.... Does anyone out there have this skimmer (or similar model)? Can you tell me EXACTLY how to prime the damn thing?! I've been thru numerous threads and reviews and none of the ways mentioned have worked for me. Help Please! [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 43685	From: Donna Ransome	Date: 10/6/2009
Subject: Re: Questions about water

Switch to African rift lake cichlids and they will love your water. Not your tank size however, LOL. _____ From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Lainey Alexander Sent: Tuesday, October 06, 2009 11:28 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Questions about water Hi Everyone - I am struggling with water issues. First of all, my tap comes from a deep very clean well that has impotably hard water which must be softened. I use a potassium chloride softener. The water has been tested and it is very good clean water, but I honestly don't know if it will be a problem long term for the fish. The KH is seven for the tap water and the pH is 7.9. So what I do for the 37g fish tank is to add one part distilled to three parts tap and then, with my co2 diffuser, I get to about 7 for pH with about 5 for KH. So first question is: will the softened tap water be a long term problem for the fish? Do other people use softened tap water? Second question is: I want to set up a quarantine tank today, but I can't get another co2 diffuser for it which means that unless I use mainly disltilled, with just a splash of tap, I will be getting a high pH for the quarantine since I will be using siphoned water from the main tank and without the co2, the pH will be around 7.7. But if I use primarily distilled for the quarantine, then the KH will drop and I'm not sure that I will be able to maintain a steady pH with such low KH:) Advise would be appreciated! Thank you, Lainey http://www.grasslan <http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com> dsgouldians.com [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 43686	From: Lainey Alexander	Date: 10/6/2009
Subject: Re: Questions about water

Thanks, Steve - Does anyone know if RO Right is used successfully by most people who try it? I worry about fiddling with water chemisty additives and whether it's a slippery slope (not that I'm not already on a slippery slope). Lainey http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com On Oct 6, 2009, at 8:01 PM, Steve Szabo wrote: > Lainey, > > I was going to suggest you use the water straight from the well and > keep > fish that are suitable for that water, but, after hearing more about > your well water, this may not be such a good idea. Your best bet it to > purchase an RO unit for your aquariums, or use the one you have for > drinking water, if it bypasses the softener, though the output may not > be quite enough for both tasks. There are recipes for > reconstituting RO > water to various parameters, or, as Lenny, I think, mentioned, you can > use RO Right. > > As you probably know from your drinking water RO unit, there can be > quite a lot of waste water from the RO process. You would need to > determine if you can use this water elsewhere, or if it would need > to be > dumped somewhere > > \\Steve// > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] > On Behalf Of Lainey Alexander > Sent: Tuesday, October 06, 2009 11:28 AM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Subject: [AquaticLife] Questions about water > > Hi Everyone - > > I am struggling with water issues. First of all, my tap comes from a > deep very clean well that has impotably hard water which must be > softened. I use a potassium chloride softener. The water has been > tested and it is very good clean water, but I honestly don't know if > it will be a problem long term for the fish. The KH is seven for the > tap water and the pH is 7.9. > > So what I do for the 37g fish tank is to add one part distilled to > three parts tap and then, with my co2 diffuser, I get to about 7 for > pH with about 5 for KH. > > So first question is: will the softened tap water be a long term > problem for the fish? Do other people use softened tap water? > > Second question is: I want to set up a quarantine tank today, but I > can't get another co2 diffuser for it which means that unless I use > mainly disltilled, with just a splash of tap, I will be getting a > high pH for the quarantine since I will be using siphoned water from > the main tank and without the co2, the pH will be around 7.7. > > But if I use primarily distilled for the quarantine, then the KH will > drop and I'm not sure that I will be able to maintain a steady pH > with such low KH:) > > Advise would be appreciated! > > Thank you, > > Lainey > http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 43687	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 10/6/2009
Subject: Re: Questions about water

Lainey, I have no experience with it, but Kent has a good product line, and I know a lot of people who trust his products (mainly marine). \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Lainey Alexander Sent: Tuesday, October 06, 2009 9:01 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Questions about water Thanks, Steve - Does anyone know if RO Right is used successfully by most people who try it? I worry about fiddling with water chemisty additives and whether it's a slippery slope (not that I'm not already on a slippery slope). Lainey http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com On Oct 6, 2009, at 8:01 PM, Steve Szabo wrote: > Lainey, > > I was going to suggest you use the water straight from the well and > keep > fish that are suitable for that water, but, after hearing more about > your well water, this may not be such a good idea. Your best bet it to > purchase an RO unit for your aquariums, or use the one you have for > drinking water, if it bypasses the softener, though the output may not > be quite enough for both tasks. There are recipes for > reconstituting RO > water to various parameters, or, as Lenny, I think, mentioned, you can > use RO Right. > > As you probably know from your drinking water RO unit, there can be > quite a lot of waste water from the RO process. You would need to > determine if you can use this water elsewhere, or if it would need > to be > dumped somewhere > > \\Steve// > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] > On Behalf Of Lainey Alexander > Sent: Tuesday, October 06, 2009 11:28 AM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Subject: [AquaticLife] Questions about water > > Hi Everyone - > > I am struggling with water issues. First of all, my tap comes from a > deep very clean well that has impotably hard water which must be > softened. I use a potassium chloride softener. The water has been > tested and it is very good clean water, but I honestly don't know if > it will be a problem long term for the fish. The KH is seven for the > tap water and the pH is 7.9. > > So what I do for the 37g fish tank is to add one part distilled to > three parts tap and then, with my co2 diffuser, I get to about 7 for > pH with about 5 for KH. > > So first question is: will the softened tap water be a long term > problem for the fish? Do other people use softened tap water? > > Second question is: I want to set up a quarantine tank today, but I > can't get another co2 diffuser for it which means that unless I use > mainly disltilled, with just a splash of tap, I will be getting a > high pH for the quarantine since I will be using siphoned water from > the main tank and without the co2, the pH will be around 7.7. > > But if I use primarily distilled for the quarantine, then the KH will > drop and I'm not sure that I will be able to maintain a steady pH > with such low KH:) > > Advise would be appreciated! > > Thank you, > > Lainey > http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 43688	From: robbrouse	Date: 10/7/2009
Subject: Re: Questions about water

Lainey First cool web site for your bird. I think you need to conceder running sever test and determine what would be the best water for you fish. I messed around with RO and one time I if I did a 50/50 mix I did get the water down to about 70/7.2 PH and a GH of 7 and KH of around 3. I do not have my own RO system was I was getting water from a local Store. I never introduce my fish straight to this because I was worried about how the RO water might change when I have no control over how it was produced. I ended up buying 6, 5 gallon jugs work over 6 weeks, while my tank was doing it's fishless cycle and each time the water was slightly different so the mixture to get the same reading were different and I just knew that would be a pain in the butt. Also winters get cold in Utah and I did not like the idea of having to go out in sub freezing weather to transport water. My point of this story was I have read a lot on RO water and I have also heard of added the product by Kent to get what I needed in the water, but most people will tell you the cheapest and easiest what to accomplish this will be used you waste water from your RO unit. Get a 5 gallon buck or two and start messing with it to get what you want. I'm guessing if you do a 1 to 3 mix with distilled it'll be close to the same with RO. I'm guessing you change out about 10 gallons of water in your 37 a week, so that's only 2 gallons of RO if the 1 to 3 works. It has been suggested here that you do a base line. I'd do one on the RO unit water the tap water for the tank as well as the waste water from the RO unit. Other than the basic GH, KH and PH you need to see if any of your water has Ammonia, Nitrite and Nitrate in it. My water has a slight hint of ammonia in it. Unless I missed it I never did read your base line. Someone said something about making you're your water is safe do to how harsh it is. Have you had your water tested professionally? How if the water for bathing? What type of filtering system is your water running through? IS it just a water softener? If it is then you really don't want your fish in this water as well. If it was me since you have a RO system I'd just use that and then either buy the Kent stuff. - http://tinyurl.com/ydo5lrl or use the waste water. Just remember one thing if this is the road you start down it will be a major head ache to switch them off the RO water. In my test I have no idea why the water was different each time. I had my base line and the baseline of the RO water is what changed. Anyhow good luck and please post your baselines so people can give you more advise. Now what I'm going to say here might not be of full agreement of the group, but here goes. I have been keeping fish off and on for over 35 years and I honestly fell if you keep your water conditions stable, the same PH, hardness and all that, most fish will adjust to your water. If you do you weekly water changes and your water source never changes I'm 99% sure 90% of the Fresh Water fish will adjust just fine to most water conditions. About 5 years ago I was trying everything to get my PH down to so I could keep Angel fish. I was stuck with a GH of 10 and a PH of 7. I was told there was no way the angels would make it in my water. So I gave up on the idea of keeping them until one day a friend of a friend told me through my friend he was move from San Diego to Main and was unable to take his fish. He had 6 Angles that he wanted to house, but was taking his tanks with him. I was living in Southern Utah and my buddy said he could get me any of the fish I wanted if I'd meet him in Vegas, so needless to say I we meet in Vegas and didn't spend the night or anything. I cycled a tank and with media from another tank and I went and got the angels. They were in a 5 gallon bucked with a batter powered air pump and a heater hooked in through a power adaptor in the lighter. I got the angels home and we got them into the 50 gallon tall aquarium and only 5 made the trip one was lost and They are still alive at my brothers house today. I moved 3 years ago. The water was a GH of 12 a PH of 7.8. Anyhow this might not be the norm but I think the conditions you listed you should eb find for most of the fish out there. Sorry for being so long winded. Robb From Utah

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 43689	From: bill 1433	Date: 10/7/2009
Subject: Re: Questions about water

Hi again Lainey,   Rob does mention one very important detail on your water.  Yes, most of the time, fish will adapt BUT the secret is TIME.  How long and how well you carry over any changes to your fishes' current water parameters is very important.   Also I may have missed some of your original post.  What type of fish do you have now if any and again, what size tank.  Another consideration you will face and one that led me to changing my water parameters, is any new fish purchased.  Anything you buy from anywhere will be coming into your current conditions from vastly different parameters.  Again, like me, your best bet is to transport any new fish with a large (5-gallon) bucket, full of as much water as your local pet shop will give you.  Use a 5 or 10-gallon tank for acclamation and work very slowly toward changing the fish to your current parameters.  The more time you take doing this, the greater your success rate will be.   Bill --- On Wed, 10/7/09, robbrouse <robbrouse@...> wrote: From: robbrouse <robbrouse@...> Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Questions about water To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Date: Wednesday, October 7, 2009, 11:46 AM Lainey First cool web site for your bird. I think you need to conceder running sever test and determine what would be the best water for you fish. I messed around with RO and one time I if I did a 50/50 mix I did get the water down to about 70/7.2 PH and a GH of 7 and  KH of around 3. I do not have my own RO system was I was getting water from a local Store. I never introduce my fish straight to this because I was worried about how the RO water might change when I have no control over how it was produced. I ended up buying 6,  5 gallon jugs work over  6 weeks,  while my tank was doing it's fishless cycle and each time the water was slightly different so the mixture to get the same reading were different and I just knew that would be a pain in the butt. Also winters get cold in Utah and I did not like the idea of having to go out in sub freezing weather to transport water. My point of this story was I have read a lot on RO water and I have also heard of added the product by Kent to get what I needed in the water, but most people will tell you the cheapest and easiest what to accomplish this will be used you waste water from your RO unit. Get a 5 gallon buck or two and start messing with it to get what you want. I'm guessing if you do a 1 to 3 mix with distilled it'll be close to the same with RO. I'm guessing you change out about 10 gallons of water in your 37 a week, so that's only 2 gallons of RO if the 1 to 3 works. It has been suggested here that you do a base line. I'd do one on the RO unit water the tap water for the tank as well as the waste water from the RO unit. Other than the basic GH, KH and PH you need to see if any of your water has Ammonia, Nitrite and Nitrate in it. My water has a slight hint of ammonia in it. Unless I missed it I never did read your base line. Someone said something about making you're your water is safe do to how harsh it is. Have you had your water tested professionally? How if the water for bathing? What type of filtering system is your water running through? IS it just a water softener?  If it is then you really don't want your fish in this water as well. If it was me since you have a RO system I'd just use that and then either buy the Kent stuff. - http://tinyurl.com/ydo5lrl or use the waste water. Just remember one thing if this is the road you start down it will be a major head ache to switch them off the RO water. In my test I have no idea why the water was different each time. I had my base line and the baseline of the RO water is what changed. Anyhow good luck and please post your baselines so people can give you more advise. Now what I'm going to say here might not be of full agreement of the group, but here goes. I have been keeping fish off and on for over 35 years and I honestly fell if you keep your water conditions stable, the same PH, hardness and all that, most fish will adjust to your water.  If you do you weekly water changes and your water source never changes I'm 99% sure 90% of the Fresh Water fish will adjust just fine to most water conditions. About 5 years ago I was trying everything to get my PH down to so I could keep Angel fish. I was stuck with a GH of 10 and a PH of 7. I was told there was no way the angels would make it in my water. So I gave up on the idea of keeping them until one day a friend of a friend told me through my friend he was move from San Diego to Main and was unable to take his fish. He had 6 Angles that he wanted to house, but was taking his tanks with him. I was living in Southern Utah and my buddy said he could get me any of the fish I wanted if I'd meet him in Vegas, so needless to say I we meet in Vegas and didn't spend the night or anything. I cycled a tank and  with media from another tank and I went and got the angels. They were in a 5 gallon bucked with a batter powered air pump and a heater hooked in through a power adaptor in the lighter. I got the angels home and we got them into the 50 gallon tall aquarium and only 5 made the trip one was lost and They are still alive at my brothers house today. I moved 3 years ago. The water was a GH of 12 a PH of 7.8. Anyhow this might  not be the norm but I think the conditions you listed you should eb find for most of the fish out there. Sorry for being so long winded. Robb From Utah ------------------------------------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the home page.  Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com to receive the digest, which includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com for the No E-Mail option where you will still be able to read messages on the group and post replies. Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com to receive individual e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 43690	From: robbrouse	Date: 10/7/2009
Subject: Re: Questions about water

Thanks Bill totally forgot about this. How I would start this process would be start with 5 or 10% water changed do them one or two times a day with 10 or 12 hours in-between if it's 2 times a day. Make sure that the water you are converting over to is the same perimeters. Same PH, GH, KH and all that. I had a buddy that was using spring water. He was using nothing but spring water and was doing this for over a year and then out of the blue decided driving 25 miles every week was more work than it was worth. So what he did was started a 30 day conversion process. Start doing 5% water changed twice a day. He did the gravel vacuum and everything just took out a small amount of water. He had about a total of 200 gallons between several tanks. So we are only talking 10 Gallons a day spread out between a few tanks. I remember him telling me it was a log of work over that 30 days, but after all was said and done they adapted to his tap water and he told me he lsot 2 fish during this and has no way to know if this was do to the change or just old age one was a 13 year old gold fish. It will be a lot of work, but it will be easier using straight tap water and not messing with RO. Now if you tap water is so far out there maybe you'll want to start using RO, but same thing if the perimeters are different than your set up now you'll want to still slowly convert them over. Robb From Utah. --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, bill 1433 <warrenprint@...> wrote: > > Hi again Lainey, >   > Rob does mention one very important detail on your water.  Yes, most of the time, fish will adapt BUT the secret is TIME.  How long and how well you carry over any changes to your fishes' current water parameters is very important. >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 43691	From: bill 1433	Date: 10/7/2009
Subject: Re: Questions about water

Hi Rob, I would agree here but save for the speed! Everything you said but in half. A 5 or 10 % water change, or in a 10-gallon tank, 1 gallon changed every four days, at most. With such a wide parameter range as hers, slower is definitely better. Don't you agree? Bill --- On Wed, 10/7/09, robbrouse <robbrouse@...> wrote: > From: robbrouse <robbrouse@...> > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Questions about water > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Date: Wednesday, October 7, 2009, 1:52 PM > Thanks Bill totally forgot about > this. > > How I would start this process would be start with 5 or 10% > water changed do them one or two times a day with 10 or 12 > hours in-between if it's 2 times a day.  > > Make sure that the water you are converting over to is the > same perimeters. Same PH, GH, KH and all that. I had a buddy > that was using spring water. He was using nothing but spring > water and was doing this for over a year and then out of the > blue decided driving 25 miles every week was more work than > it was worth. So what he did was started a 30 day conversion > process. Start doing 5% water changed twice a day. He did > the gravel vacuum and everything just took out a small > amount of water. He had about a total of 200 gallons between > several tanks. So we are only talking 10 Gallons a day > spread out between a few tanks. > > I remember him telling me it was a log of work over that 30 > days, but after all was said and done they adapted to his > tap water and he told me he lsot 2 fish during this and has > no way to know if this was do to the change or just old age > one was a 13 year old gold fish. > > It will be a lot of work, but it will be easier using > straight tap water and not messing with RO. Now if you tap > water is so far out there maybe you'll want to start using > RO, but same thing if the perimeters are different than your > set up now you'll want to still slowly convert them over. > > Robb From Utah. > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, > bill 1433 <warrenprint@...> wrote: > > > > Hi again Lainey, > >   > > Rob does mention one very important detail on your > water.  Yes, most of the time, fish will adapt BUT the > secret is TIME.  How long and how well you carry over any > changes to your fishes' current water parameters is very > important. > >   > > > > > ------------------------------------ > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when > replying, Thank You. > ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> > ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> > PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is > NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of > the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new > subject (was re: old subject)" <- > <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. > , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. > > If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of > unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by > clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the home page.  > > Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com > to receive the digest, which includes up to 25 posts at a > time in a single email > > Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com > for the No E-Mail option where you will still be able to > read messages on the group and post replies. > > Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com > to receive individual e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links > > >     mailto:AquaticLife-fullfeatured@yahoogroups.com > > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 43692	From: robbrouse	Date: 10/7/2009
Subject: Re: Questions about water

Bill, hard a brain cramp I guess. You are more than right you want to take a full month or so to convert it over not 10 days. Guess I should either pay less attention to work or more to the post I enter (LOL). Yes do the 5 to 10% every 4 days maybe 5. Again sorry for this information been to busy at work to give advice sorry about that. Robb --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, bill 1433 <warrenprint@...> wrote: > > Hi Rob, > > I would agree here but save for the speed! Everything you said but in half. A 5 or 10 % water change, or in a 10-gallon tank, 1 gallon changed every four days, at most. With such a wide parameter range as hers, slower is definitely better. Don't you agree? > > Bill > > > --- On Wed, 10/7/09, robbrouse <robbrouse@...> wrote: > > > From: robbrouse <robbrouse@...> > > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Questions about water > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > Date: Wednesday, October 7, 2009, 1:52 PM > > Thanks Bill totally forgot about > > this. > > > > How I would start this process would be start with 5 or 10% > > water changed do them one or two times a day with 10 or 12 > > hours in-between if it's 2 times a day.  > > > > Make sure that the water you are converting over to is the > > same perimeters. Same PH, GH, KH and all that. I had a buddy > > that was using spring water. He was using nothing but spring > > water and was doing this for over a year and then out of the > > blue decided driving 25 miles every week was more work than > > it was worth. So what he did was started a 30 day conversion > > process. Start doing 5% water changed twice a day. He did > > the gravel vacuum and everything just took out a small > > amount of water. He had about a total of 200 gallons between > > several tanks. So we are only talking 10 Gallons a day > > spread out between a few tanks. > > > > I remember him telling me it was a log of work over that 30 > > days, but after all was said and done they adapted to his > > tap water and he told me he lsot 2 fish during this and has > > no way to know if this was do to the change or just old age > > one was a 13 year old gold fish. > > > > It will be a lot of work, but it will be easier using > > straight tap water and not messing with RO. Now if you tap > > water is so far out there maybe you'll want to start using > > RO, but same thing if the perimeters are different than your > > set up now you'll want to still slowly convert them over. > > > > Robb From Utah. > > > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, > > bill 1433 <warrenprint@> wrote: > > > > > > Hi again Lainey, > > >   > > > Rob does mention one very important detail on your > > water.  Yes, most of the time, fish will adapt BUT the > > secret is TIME.  How long and how well you carry over any > > changes to your fishes' current water parameters is very > > important. > > >   > > > > > > > > > > ------------------------------------ > > > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when > > replying, Thank You. > > ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> > > ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> > > PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is > > NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of > > the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new > > subject (was re: old subject)" <- > > <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. > > , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. > > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. > > > > If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of > > unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by > > clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the home page.  > > > > Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com > > to receive the digest, which includes up to 25 posts at a > > time in a single email > > > > Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com > > for the No E-Mail option where you will still be able to > > read messages on the group and post replies. > > > > Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com > > to receive individual e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > >     mailto:AquaticLife-fullfeatured@yahoogroups.com > > > > > > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 43693	From: bill 1433	Date: 10/7/2009
Subject: Re: Questions about water

No worries Robb! It's just that I have had recent experience with my own well water. This water had 0 hardness and a pH of 5.5 to 5.8! Since all LPS were in the 7.0 ranges, with a hardness level of 5, I think you can readily see the problem. But changing as I did, in the end I decided to bring MY tanks more into line with the local shops. The reason again, time. To get the fish into my well water safely took well over a month. This was added work and expense in keeping another tank up and running for no other reason other than to acclimate new fish. Working very closely with a guy who has since become a good friend and a fellow "old-timer" like myself, I slowly brought my tanks into a more neutral state and with some hardness value. But in saying all of that I should also mention that these new or controlled water parameters are all controlled by regular water changes and standard tank maintenance, without which the fish would not survive. Bill --- On Wed, 10/7/09, robbrouse <robbrouse@...> wrote: > From: robbrouse <robbrouse@...> > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Questions about water > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Date: Wednesday, October 7, 2009, 3:07 PM > Bill, hard a brain cramp I guess. You > are more than right you want to take a full month or so to > convert it over not 10 days. Guess I should either pay less > attention to work or more to the post I enter (LOL). Yes do > the 5 to 10% every 4 days maybe 5. Again sorry for this > information been to busy at work to give advice sorry about > that. > > Robb > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, > bill 1433 <warrenprint@...> wrote: > > > > Hi Rob, > > > > I would agree here but save for the speed!  > Everything you said but in half.  A 5 or 10 % water > change, or in a 10-gallon tank, 1 gallon changed every four > days, at most.  With such a wide parameter range as > hers, slower is definitely better.  Don't you agree? > > > > Bill > > > > > > --- On Wed, 10/7/09, robbrouse <robbrouse@...> > wrote: > > > > > From: robbrouse <robbrouse@...> > > > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Questions about water > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > > Date: Wednesday, October 7, 2009, 1:52 PM > > > Thanks Bill totally forgot about > > > this. > > > > > > How I would start this process would be start > with 5 or 10% > > > water changed do them one or two times a day with > 10 or 12 > > > hours in-between if it's 2 times a day.  > > > > > > Make sure that the water you are converting over > to is the > > > same perimeters. Same PH, GH, KH and all that. I > had a buddy > > > that was using spring water. He was using nothing > but spring > > > water and was doing this for over a year and then > out of the > > > blue decided driving 25 miles every week was more > work than > > > it was worth. So what he did was started a 30 day > conversion > > > process. Start doing 5% water changed twice a > day. He did > > > the gravel vacuum and everything just took out a > small > > > amount of water. He had about a total of 200 > gallons between > > > several tanks. So we are only talking 10 Gallons > a day > > > spread out between a few tanks. > > > > > > I remember him telling me it was a log of work > over that 30 > > > days, but after all was said and done they > adapted to his > > > tap water and he told me he lsot 2 fish during > this and has > > > no way to know if this was do to the change or > just old age > > > one was a 13 year old gold fish. > > > > > > It will be a lot of work, but it will be easier > using > > > straight tap water and not messing with RO. Now > if you tap > > > water is so far out there maybe you'll want to > start using > > > RO, but same thing if the perimeters are > different than your > > > set up now you'll want to still slowly convert > them over. > > > > > > Robb From Utah. > > > > > > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, > > > bill 1433 <warrenprint@> wrote: > > > > > > > > Hi again Lainey, > > > >   > > > > Rob does mention one very important detail > on your > > > water.  Yes, most of the time, fish will adapt > BUT the > > > secret is TIME.  How long and how well you carry > over any > > > changes to your fishes' current water parameters > is very > > > important. > > > >   > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ------------------------------------ > > > > > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it > when > > > replying, Thank You. > > > > ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> > > > ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , > .·´¯`·..><((((º> > > > PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT > that is > > > NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the > TOPIC of > > > the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE > -> i.e. "new > > > subject (was re: old subject)" <- > > > > <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. > > > , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. > > > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this > matter. > > > > > > If you do not want all of the groups emails, > instead of > > > unsubscribing, you can change your delivery > option by > > > clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the home > page.  > > > > > > Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com > > > to receive the digest, which includes up to 25 > posts at a > > > time in a single email > > > > > > Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com > > > for the No E-Mail option where you will still be > able to > > > read messages on the group and post replies. > > > > > > Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com > > > to receive individual e-mails.Yahoo! Groups > Links > > > > > > > > >     mailto:AquaticLife-fullfeatured@yahoogroups.com > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ------------------------------------ > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when > replying, Thank You. > ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> > ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> > PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is > NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of > the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new > subject (was re: old subject)" <- > <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. > , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. > > If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of > unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by > clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the home page.  > > Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com > to receive the digest, which includes up to 25 posts at a > time in a single email > > Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com > for the No E-Mail option where you will still be able to > read messages on the group and post replies. > > Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com > to receive individual e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links > > >     mailto:AquaticLife-fullfeatured@yahoogroups.com > > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 43694	From: Lainey Alexander	Date: 10/7/2009
Subject: Re: Questions about water

I just want to thank everyone for feedback on my water issues. I am busy trying to troubleshoot this quarantine set up so not writing back, but very much appreciate your help. So far I haven't gotten too far, all I have come up with is to transfer my CO2 back and forth from the main tank to the quarantine - tedious but it does maintain the pH for both tanks. As long as I don't leave the house! I have done many of the 48 hour tests... Going to try bottled water from the store tonight for the QT wish me luck! Lainey http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com On Oct 7, 2009, at 3:48 PM, bill 1433 wrote: > No worries Robb! > > It's just that I have had recent experience with my own well water. > This water had 0 hardness and a pH of 5.5 to 5.8! Since all LPS > were in the 7.0 ranges, with a hardness level of 5, I think you can > readily see the problem. But changing as I did, in the end I > decided to bring MY tanks more into line with the local shops. The > reason again, time. To get the fish into my well water safely took > well over a month. This was added work and expense in keeping > another tank up and running for no other reason other than to > acclimate new fish. > > Working very closely with a guy who has since become a good friend > and a fellow "old-timer" like myself, I slowly brought my tanks > into a more neutral state and with some hardness value. But in > saying all of that I should also mention that these new or > controlled water parameters are all controlled by regular water > changes and standard tank maintenance, without which the fish would > not survive. > > Bill > > --- On Wed, 10/7/09, robbrouse <robbrouse@...> wrote: > > > From: robbrouse <robbrouse@...> > > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Questions about water > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > Date: Wednesday, October 7, 2009, 3:07 PM > > Bill, hard a brain cramp I guess. You > > are more than right you want to take a full month or so to > > convert it over not 10 days. Guess I should either pay less > > attention to work or more to the post I enter (LOL). Yes do > > the 5 to 10% every 4 days maybe 5. Again sorry for this > > information been to busy at work to give advice sorry about > > that. > > > > Robb > > > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, > > bill 1433 <warrenprint@...> wrote: > > > > > > Hi Rob, > > > > > > I would agree here but save for the speed! > > Everything you said but in half. A 5 or 10 % water > > change, or in a 10-gallon tank, 1 gallon changed every four > > days, at most. With such a wide parameter range as > > hers, slower is definitely better. Don't you agree? > > > > > > Bill > > > > > > > > > --- On Wed, 10/7/09, robbrouse <robbrouse@...> > > wrote: > > > > > > > From: robbrouse <robbrouse@...> > > > > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Questions about water > > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > > > Date: Wednesday, October 7, 2009, 1:52 PM > > > > Thanks Bill totally forgot about > > > > this. > > > > > > > > How I would start this process would be start > > with 5 or 10% > > > > water changed do them one or two times a day with > > 10 or 12 > > > > hours in-between if it's 2 times a day. > > > > > > > > Make sure that the water you are converting over > > to is the > > > > same perimeters. Same PH, GH, KH and all that. I > > had a buddy > > > > that was using spring water. He was using nothing > > but spring > > > > water and was doing this for over a year and then > > out of the > > > > blue decided driving 25 miles every week was more > > work than > > > > it was worth. So what he did was started a 30 day > > conversion > > > > process. Start doing 5% water changed twice a > > day. He did > > > > the gravel vacuum and everything just took out a > > small > > > > amount of water. He had about a total of 200 > > gallons between > > > > several tanks. So we are only talking 10 Gallons > > a day > > > > spread out between a few tanks. > > > > > > > > I remember him telling me it was a log of work > > over that 30 > > > > days, but after all was said and done they > > adapted to his > > > > tap water and he told me he lsot 2 fish during > > this and has > > > > no way to know if this was do to the change or > > just old age > > > > one was a 13 year old gold fish. > > > > > > > > It will be a lot of work, but it will be easier > > using > > > > straight tap water and not messing with RO. Now > > if you tap > > > > water is so far out there maybe you'll want to > > start using > > > > RO, but same thing if the perimeters are > > different than your > > > > set up now you'll want to still slowly convert > > them over. > > > > > > > > Robb From Utah. > > > > > > > > > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, > > > > bill 1433 <warrenprint@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > Hi again Lainey, > > > > > > > > > > Rob does mention one very important detail > > on your > > > > water. Yes, most of the time, fish will adapt > > BUT the > > > > secret is TIME. How long and how well you carry > > over any > > > > changes to your fishes' current water parameters > > is very > > > > important. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ------------------------------------ > > > > > > > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it > > when > > > > replying, Thank You. > > > > > > ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> > > > > ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , > > .·´¯`·..><((((º> > > > > PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT > > that is > > > > NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the > > TOPIC of > > > > the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE > > -> i.e. "new > > > > subject (was re: old subject)" <- > > > > > > <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. > > > > , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. > > > > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this > > matter. > > > > > > > > If you do not want all of the groups emails, > > instead of > > > > unsubscribing, you can change your delivery > > option by > > > > clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the home > > page. > > > > > > > > Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com > > > > to receive the digest, which includes up to 25 > > posts at a > > > > time in a single email > > > > > > > > Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com > > > > for the No E-Mail option where you will still be > > able to > > > > read messages on the group and post replies. > > > > > > > > Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com > > > > to receive individual e-mails.Yahoo! Groups > > Links > > > > > > > > > > > > mailto:AquaticLife-fullfeatured@yahoogroups.com > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ------------------------------------ > > > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when > > replying, Thank You. > > ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> > > ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> > > PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is > > NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of > > the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new > > subject (was re: old subject)" <- > > <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. > > , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. > > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. > > > > If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of > > unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by > > clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the home page. > > > > Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com > > to receive the digest, which includes up to 25 posts at a > > time in a single email > > > > Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com > > for the No E-Mail option where you will still be able to > > read messages on the group and post replies. > > > > Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com > > to receive individual e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > mailto:AquaticLife-fullfeatured@yahoogroups.com > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 43695	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 10/7/2009
Subject: Re: Questions about water

Using CO2 to change the pH is not really necessary and is a waste of CO2. Using CO2 to raise the CO2 levels for promoting plant growth is good. You really should allow your fish to acclimate to your filtered tap water and go from there. As I stated earlier in this thread, your pH and hardness levels are NOT that high and your tank's pH and hardness will be even lower than your tap levels in an established tank... unless you are keeping fish that absolutely have to have a very low pH. Several of us have asked what fish you have or plan to have but I haven't seen this information. Yes, while CO2 will alter the pH, this type of change does not affect fish for some reason so changing it, thinking you will be making things better for the fish is simply not effective. The GH and KH remain the same. This has been discussed repeatedly in planted tank forums. When CO2 is not used and there is a drastic pH change/crash, usually do to poor water quality, it is usually a result of a low KH level and sometimes the GH level as well. When the KH level gets too low, it can and usually will result in a pH crash, which can cause pH shock to fish, which is sometimes fatal. BUT... lowering the pH, even drastically, using CO2 does NOT cause health effects to fish... because the GH and KH levels should stay the same so there is no corresponding osmoregulatory shock to the fish. In fact, in planted tanks (or ponds) without CO2 injection, the pH level will often change by more than a full point during a 24 hour period because, during the day, when the plants are using up available CO2 during photosynthesis. This raises the pH during the day. Then at night, some plants actually reverse the process, taking in O2 and putting out CO2, which results in a much lower pH at night... BUT once again, this change in pH as a result in CO2 levels DOES NOT seem to affect fish like a pH crash that is not a result of CO2 injection. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Lainey Alexander Sent: Wednesday, October 07, 2009 5:27 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: Questions about water I just want to thank everyone for feedback on my water issues. I am busy trying to troubleshoot this quarantine set up so not writing back, but very much appreciate your help. So far I haven't gotten too far, all I have come up with is to transfer my CO2 back and forth from the main tank to the quarantine - tedious but it does maintain the pH for both tanks. As long as I don't leave the house! I have done many of the 48 hour tests... Going to try bottled water from the store tonight for the QT wish me luck! Lainey http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com On Oct 7, 2009, at 3:48 PM, bill 1433 wrote: > No worries Robb! > > It's just that I have had recent experience with my own well water. > This water had 0 hardness and a pH of 5.5 to 5.8! Since all LPS were > in the 7.0 ranges, with a hardness level of 5, I think you can readily > see the problem. But changing as I did, in the end I decided to bring > MY tanks more into line with the local shops. The reason again, time. > To get the fish into my well water safely took well over a month. This > was added work and expense in keeping another tank up and running for > no other reason other than to acclimate new fish. > > Working very closely with a guy who has since become a good friend and > a fellow "old-timer" like myself, I slowly brought my tanks into a > more neutral state and with some hardness value. But in saying all of > that I should also mention that these new or controlled water > parameters are all controlled by regular water changes and standard > tank maintenance, without which the fish would not survive. > > Bill > > --- On Wed, 10/7/09, robbrouse <robbrouse@...> wrote: > > > From: robbrouse <robbrouse@...> > > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Questions about water > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > Date: Wednesday, October 7, 2009, 3:07 PM Bill, hard a brain cramp I > > guess. You are more than right you want to take a full month or so > > to convert it over not 10 days. Guess I should either pay less > > attention to work or more to the post I enter (LOL). Yes do the 5 to > > 10% every 4 days maybe 5. Again sorry for this information been to > > busy at work to give advice sorry about that. > > > > Robb > > > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, > > bill 1433 <warrenprint@...> wrote: > > > > > > Hi Rob, > > > > > > I would agree here but save for the speed! > > Everything you said but in half. A 5 or 10 % water change, or in a > > 10-gallon tank, 1 gallon changed every four days, at most. With > > such a wide parameter range as hers, slower is definitely better. > > Don't you agree? > > > > > > Bill > > > > > > > > > --- On Wed, 10/7/09, robbrouse <robbrouse@...> > > wrote: > > > > > > > From: robbrouse <robbrouse@...> > > > > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Questions about water > > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > > > Date: Wednesday, October 7, 2009, 1:52 PM Thanks Bill totally > > > > forgot about this. > > > > > > > > How I would start this process would be start > > with 5 or 10% > > > > water changed do them one or two times a day with > > 10 or 12 > > > > hours in-between if it's 2 times a day. > > > > > > > > Make sure that the water you are converting over > > to is the > > > > same perimeters. Same PH, GH, KH and all that. I > > had a buddy > > > > that was using spring water. He was using nothing > > but spring > > > > water and was doing this for over a year and then > > out of the > > > > blue decided driving 25 miles every week was more > > work than > > > > it was worth. So what he did was started a 30 day > > conversion > > > > process. Start doing 5% water changed twice a > > day. He did > > > > the gravel vacuum and everything just took out a > > small > > > > amount of water. He had about a total of 200 > > gallons between > > > > several tanks. So we are only talking 10 Gallons > > a day > > > > spread out between a few tanks. > > > > > > > > I remember him telling me it was a log of work > > over that 30 > > > > days, but after all was said and done they > > adapted to his > > > > tap water and he told me he lsot 2 fish during > > this and has > > > > no way to know if this was do to the change or > > just old age > > > > one was a 13 year old gold fish. > > > > > > > > It will be a lot of work, but it will be easier > > using > > > > straight tap water and not messing with RO. Now > > if you tap > > > > water is so far out there maybe you'll want to > > start using > > > > RO, but same thing if the perimeters are > > different than your > > > > set up now you'll want to still slowly convert > > them over. > > > > > > > > Robb From Utah. > > > > > > > > > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, bill 1433 <warrenprint@> > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > Hi again Lainey, > > > > > > > > > > Rob does mention one very important detail > > on your > > > > water. Yes, most of the time, fish will adapt > > BUT the > > > > secret is TIME. How long and how well you carry > > over any > > > > changes to your fishes' current water parameters > > is very > > > > important. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ------------------------------------ > > > > > > > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it > > when > > > > replying, Thank You. > > > > > > ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> > > > > ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , > > .·´¯`·..><((((º> > > > > PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT > > that is > > > > NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the > > TOPIC of > > > > the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE > > -> i.e. "new > > > > subject (was re: old subject)" <- > > > > > > <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. > > > > , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. > > > > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this > > matter. > > > > > > > > If you do not want all of the groups emails, > > instead of > > > > unsubscribing, you can change your delivery > > option by > > > > clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the home > > page. > > > > > > > > Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com > > > > to receive the digest, which includes up to 25 > > posts at a > > > > time in a single email > > > > > > > > Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com > > > > for the No E-Mail option where you will still be > > able to > > > > read messages on the group and post replies. > > > > > > > > Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com > > > > to receive individual e-mails.Yahoo! Groups > > Links > > > > > > > > > > > > mailto:AquaticLife-fullfeatured@yahoogroups.com > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ------------------------------------ > > > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, > > Thank You. > > ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> > > ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> > > PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT > > important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original > > message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old > > subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. > > , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. > > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. > > > > If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of > > unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by clicking on > > "Edit My Membership" on the home page. > > > > Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com > > to receive the digest, which includes up to 25 posts at a time in a > > single email > > > > Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com > > for the No E-Mail option where you will still be able to read > > messages on the group and post replies. > > > > Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com > > to receive individual e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > mailto:AquaticLife-fullfeatured@yahoogroups.com > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] ------------------------------------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the home page. Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com to receive the digest, which includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com for the No E-Mail option where you will still be able to read messages on the group and post replies. Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com to receive individual e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 43696	From: robbrouse	Date: 10/7/2009
Subject: Re: Questions about water

You said bottle water. I'm not sure what type of water you are going to use, but you need to do all the tests on that water as well. Not all bottled waters are the same and sometime they are not he same from shipment to shipment. Like I said and Lenny said in the last post you need get you fish ready for your tap water and take the time to do it right. I'll asked the same question again what type of fish are you keeping? --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, Lainey Alexander <lainealex@...> wrote: > > I just want to thank everyone for feedback on my water issues. I am > busy trying to troubleshoot this quarantine set up so not writing > back, but very much appreciate your help. So far I haven't gotten > too far, all I have come up with is to transfer my CO2 back and > forth from the main tank to the quarantine - tedious but it does > maintain the pH for both tanks. As long as I don't leave the house! > > I have done many of the 48 hour tests... > > Going to try bottled water from the store tonight for the QT wish me > luck! > > Lainey > http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com > > On Oct 7, 2009, at 3:48 PM, bill 1433 wrote: > > > No worries Robb! > > > > It's just that I have had recent experience with my own well water. > > This water had 0 hardness and a pH of 5.5 to 5.8! Since all LPS > > were in the 7.0 ranges, with a hardness level of 5, I think you can > > readily see the problem. But changing as I did, in the end I > > decided to bring MY tanks more into line with the local shops. The > > reason again, time. To get the fish into my well water safely took > > well over a month. This was added work and expense in keeping > > another tank up and running for no other reason other than to > > acclimate new fish. > > > > Working very closely with a guy who has since become a good friend > > and a fellow "old-timer" like myself, I slowly brought my tanks > > into a more neutral state and with some hardness value. But in > > saying all of that I should also mention that these new or > > controlled water parameters are all controlled by regular water > > changes and standard tank maintenance, without which the fish would > > not survive. > > > > Bill > > > > --- On Wed, 10/7/09, robbrouse <robbrouse@...> wrote: > > > > > From: robbrouse <robbrouse@...> > > > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Questions about water > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > > Date: Wednesday, October 7, 2009, 3:07 PM > > > Bill, hard a brain cramp I guess. You > > > are more than right you want to take a full month or so to > > > convert it over not 10 days. Guess I should either pay less > > > attention to work or more to the post I enter (LOL). Yes do > > > the 5 to 10% every 4 days maybe 5. Again sorry for this > > > information been to busy at work to give advice sorry about > > > that. > > > > > > Robb > > > > > > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, > > > bill 1433 <warrenprint@> wrote: > > > > > > > > Hi Rob, > > > > > > > > I would agree here but save for the speed! > > > Everything you said but in half. A 5 or 10 % water > > > change, or in a 10-gallon tank, 1 gallon changed every four > > > days, at most. With such a wide parameter range as > > > hers, slower is definitely better. Don't you agree? > > > > > > > > Bill > > > > > > > > > > > > --- On Wed, 10/7/09, robbrouse <robbrouse@> > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > From: robbrouse <robbrouse@> > > > > > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Questions about water > > > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > > > > Date: Wednesday, October 7, 2009, 1:52 PM > > > > > Thanks Bill totally forgot about > > > > > this. > > > > > > > > > > How I would start this process would be start > > > with 5 or 10% > > > > > water changed do them one or two times a day with > > > 10 or 12 > > > > > hours in-between if it's 2 times a day. > > > > > > > > > > Make sure that the water you are converting over > > > to is the > > > > > same perimeters. Same PH, GH, KH and all that. I > > > had a buddy > > > > > that was using spring water. He was using nothing > > > but spring > > > > > water and was doing this for over a year and then > > > out of the > > > > > blue decided driving 25 miles every week was more > > > work than > > > > > it was worth. So what he did was started a 30 day > > > conversion > > > > > process. Start doing 5% water changed twice a > > > day. He did > > > > > the gravel vacuum and everything just took out a > > > small > > > > > amount of water. He had about a total of 200 > > > gallons between > > > > > several tanks. So we are only talking 10 Gallons > > > a day > > > > > spread out between a few tanks. > > > > > > > > > > I remember him telling me it was a log of work > > > over that 30 > > > > > days, but after all was said and done they > > > adapted to his > > > > > tap water and he told me he lsot 2 fish during > > > this and has > > > > > no way to know if this was do to the change or > > > just old age > > > > > one was a 13 year old gold fish. > > > > > > > > > > It will be a lot of work, but it will be easier > > > using > > > > > straight tap water and not messing with RO. Now > > > if you tap > > > > > water is so far out there maybe you'll want to > > > start using > > > > > RO, but same thing if the perimeters are > > > different than your > > > > > set up now you'll want to still slowly convert > > > them over. > > > > > > > > > > Robb From Utah. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, > > > > > bill 1433 <warrenprint@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > Hi again Lainey, > > > > > > > > > > > > Rob does mention one very important detail > > > on your > > > > > water. Yes, most of the time, fish will adapt > > > BUT the > > > > > secret is TIME. How long and how well you carry > > > over any > > > > > changes to your fishes' current water parameters > > > is very > > > > > important. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ------------------------------------ > > > > > > > > > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it > > > when > > > > > replying, Thank You. > > > > > > > > ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> > > > > > ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , > > > .·´¯`·..><((((º> > > > > > PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT > > > that is > > > > > NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the > > > TOPIC of > > > > > the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE > > > -> i.e. "new > > > > > subject (was re: old subject)" <- > > > > > > > > <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. > > > > > , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. > > > > > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this > > > matter. > > > > > > > > > > If you do not want all of the groups emails, > > > instead of > > > > > unsubscribing, you can change your delivery > > > option by > > > > > clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the home > > > page. > > > > > > > > > > Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com > > > > > to receive the digest, which includes up to 25 > > > posts at a > > > > > time in a single email > > > > > > > > > > Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com > > > > > for the No E-Mail option where you will still be > > > able to > > > > > read messages on the group and post replies. > > > > > > > > > > Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com > > > > > to receive individual e-mails.Yahoo! Groups > > > Links > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > mailto:AquaticLife-fullfeatured@yahoogroups.com > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ------------------------------------ > > > > > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when > > > replying, Thank You. > > > ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> > > > ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> > > > PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is > > > NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of > > > the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new > > > subject (was re: old subject)" <- > > > <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. > > > , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. > > > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. > > > > > > If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of > > > unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by > > > clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the home page. > > > > > > Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com > > > to receive the digest, which includes up to 25 posts at a > > > time in a single email > > > > > > Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com > > > for the No E-Mail option where you will still be able to > > > read messages on the group and post replies. > > > > > > Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com > > > to receive individual e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > > > > mailto:AquaticLife-fullfeatured@yahoogroups.com > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 43697	From: Lainey Alexander	Date: 10/7/2009
Subject: Re: Questions about water

Hi Lenny - Thank you for clarifying this about the CO2 and pH. I think I did post my fish list recently, but here it is again: 7 rummy nose tetras 8 Siamese algae eaters 5 cory catfish 1 pr blue rams 4 otocinclus I hope to add a school of ten or so celestial pearl danios which are in the QT, but that will be it. The main concern I have with my pH is the plants. I have a wide assortment, and most of them prefer a neutral to slightly acid pH. Does this mean I would have to lower my tap water for the plants to 7 pH and then add the co2 and get down to like 6.2? That seems too difficult and troublesome, which is why I am doing it the way I am. Basically I throw in one quarter part RO to my tap water to make the plants happier, and then run the co2 until the co2 meter tells me there is a plant-happy amount of co2 in the water. At this point, my pH is about neutral. When I go to set up the quarantine, with no co2, the pH is 7.9. So I will be placing the QT fish into the main tank and was worried that this would be too drastic a change for them since the co2 in the main tank brings the pH down to 7. But it sounds like I should not worry about the change there, and just use my regular tank water for the QT (with no co2) and the QT fish should be able to adjust to the main tank with the co2. Lainey http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com On Oct 7, 2009, at 8:31 PM, Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > Using CO2 to change the pH is not really necessary and is a waste > of CO2. > Using CO2 to raise the CO2 levels for promoting plant growth is > good. You > really should allow your fish to acclimate to your filtered tap > water and go > from there. As I stated earlier in this thread, your pH and > hardness levels > are NOT that high and your tank's pH and hardness will be even > lower than > your tap levels in an established tank... unless you are keeping > fish that > absolutely have to have a very low pH. Several of us have asked > what fish > you have or plan to have but I haven't seen this information. > > Yes, while CO2 will alter the pH, this type of change does not > affect fish > for some reason so changing it, thinking you will be making things > better > for the fish is simply not effective. The GH and KH remain the same. > > This has been discussed repeatedly in planted tank forums. When CO2 > is not > used and there is a drastic pH change/crash, usually do to poor water > quality, it is usually a result of a low KH level and sometimes the > GH level > as well. When the KH level gets too low, it can and usually will > result in > a pH crash, which can cause pH shock to fish, which is sometimes > fatal. > BUT... lowering the pH, even drastically, using CO2 does NOT cause > health > effects to fish... because the GH and KH levels should stay the > same so > there is no corresponding osmoregulatory shock to the fish. > > In fact, in planted tanks (or ponds) without CO2 injection, the pH > level > will often change by more than a full point during a 24 hour period > because, > during the day, when the plants are using up available CO2 during > photosynthesis. This raises the pH during the day. Then at night, some > plants actually reverse the process, taking in O2 and putting out > CO2, which > results in a much lower pH at night... BUT once again, this change > in pH as > a result in CO2 levels DOES NOT seem to affect fish like a pH crash > that is > not a result of CO2 injection. > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the > right > side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, > Month) > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On > Behalf Of Lainey Alexander > Sent: Wednesday, October 07, 2009 5:27 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: Questions about water > > I just want to thank everyone for feedback on my water issues. I am > busy > trying to troubleshoot this quarantine set up so not writing back, > but very > much appreciate your help. So far I haven't gotten too far, all I > have come > up with is to transfer my CO2 back and forth from the main tank to the > quarantine - tedious but it does maintain the pH for both tanks. As > long as > I don't leave the house! > > I have done many of the 48 hour tests... > > Going to try bottled water from the store tonight for the QT wish > me luck! > > Lainey > http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com > > On Oct 7, 2009, at 3:48 PM, bill 1433 wrote: > > > No worries Robb! > > > > It's just that I have had recent experience with my own well water. > > This water had 0 hardness and a pH of 5.5 to 5.8! Since all LPS were > > in the 7.0 ranges, with a hardness level of 5, I think you can > readily > > see the problem. But changing as I did, in the end I decided to > bring > > MY tanks more into line with the local shops. The reason again, > time. > > To get the fish into my well water safely took well over a month. > This > > was added work and expense in keeping another tank up and running > for > > no other reason other than to acclimate new fish. > > > > Working very closely with a guy who has since become a good > friend and > > a fellow "old-timer" like myself, I slowly brought my tanks into a > > more neutral state and with some hardness value. But in saying > all of > > that I should also mention that these new or controlled water > > parameters are all controlled by regular water changes and standard > > tank maintenance, without which the fish would not survive. > > > > Bill > > > > --- On Wed, 10/7/09, robbrouse <robbrouse@...> wrote: > > > > > From: robbrouse <robbrouse@...> > > > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Questions about water > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > > Date: Wednesday, October 7, 2009, 3:07 PM Bill, hard a brain > cramp I > > > guess. You are more than right you want to take a full month or so > > > to convert it over not 10 days. Guess I should either pay less > > > attention to work or more to the post I enter (LOL). Yes do the > 5 to > > > 10% every 4 days maybe 5. Again sorry for this information been to > > > busy at work to give advice sorry about that. > > > > > > Robb > > > > > > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, > > > bill 1433 <warrenprint@...> wrote: > > > > > > > > Hi Rob, > > > > > > > > I would agree here but save for the speed! > > > Everything you said but in half. A 5 or 10 % water change, or in a > > > 10-gallon tank, 1 gallon changed every four days, at most. With > > > such a wide parameter range as hers, slower is definitely better. > > > Don't you agree? > > > > > > > > Bill > > > > > > > > > > > > --- On Wed, 10/7/09, robbrouse <robbrouse@...> > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > From: robbrouse <robbrouse@...> > > > > > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Questions about water > > > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > > > > Date: Wednesday, October 7, 2009, 1:52 PM Thanks Bill totally > > > > > forgot about this. > > > > > > > > > > How I would start this process would be start > > > with 5 or 10% > > > > > water changed do them one or two times a day with > > > 10 or 12 > > > > > hours in-between if it's 2 times a day. > > > > > > > > > > Make sure that the water you are converting over > > > to is the > > > > > same perimeters. Same PH, GH, KH and all that. I > > > had a buddy > > > > > that was using spring water. He was using nothing > > > but spring > > > > > water and was doing this for over a year and then > > > out of the > > > > > blue decided driving 25 miles every week was more > > > work than > > > > > it was worth. So what he did was started a 30 day > > > conversion > > > > > process. Start doing 5% water changed twice a > > > day. He did > > > > > the gravel vacuum and everything just took out a > > > small > > > > > amount of water. He had about a total of 200 > > > gallons between > > > > > several tanks. So we are only talking 10 Gallons > > > a day > > > > > spread out between a few tanks. > > > > > > > > > > I remember him telling me it was a log of work > > > over that 30 > > > > > days, but after all was said and done they > > > adapted to his > > > > > tap water and he told me he lsot 2 fish during > > > this and has > > > > > no way to know if this was do to the change or > > > just old age > > > > > one was a 13 year old gold fish. > > > > > > > > > > It will be a lot of work, but it will be easier > > > using > > > > > straight tap water and not messing with RO. Now > > > if you tap > > > > > water is so far out there maybe you'll want to > > > start using > > > > > RO, but same thing if the perimeters are > > > different than your > > > > > set up now you'll want to still slowly convert > > > them over. > > > > > > > > > > Robb From Utah. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, bill 1433 <warrenprint@> > > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > Hi again Lainey, > > > > > > > > > > > > Rob does mention one very important detail > > > on your > > > > > water. Yes, most of the time, fish will adapt > > > BUT the > > > > > secret is TIME. How long and how well you carry > > > over any > > > > > changes to your fishes' current water parameters > > > is very > > > > > important. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ------------------------------------ > > > > > > > > > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it > > > when > > > > > replying, Thank You. > > > > > > > > ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> > > > > > ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , > > > .·´¯`·..><((((º> > > > > > PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT > > > that is > > > > > NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the > > > TOPIC of > > > > > the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE > > > -> i.e. "new > > > > > subject (was re: old subject)" <- > > > > > > > > <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. > > > > > , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. > > > > > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this > > > matter. > > > > > > > > > > If you do not want all of the groups emails, > > > instead of > > > > > unsubscribing, you can change your delivery > > > option by > > > > > clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the home > > > page. > > > > > > > > > > Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com > > > > > to receive the digest, which includes up to 25 > > > posts at a > > > > > time in a single email > > > > > > > > > > Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com > > > > > for the No E-Mail option where you will still be > > > able to > > > > > read messages on the group and post replies. > > > > > > > > > > Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com > > > > > to receive individual e-mails.Yahoo! Groups > > > Links > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > mailto:AquaticLife-fullfeatured@yahoogroups.com > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ------------------------------------ > > > > > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, > > > Thank You. > > > ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> > > > ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> > > > PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT > > > important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original > > > message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old > > > subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. > > > , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. > > > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. > > > > > > If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of > > > unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by clicking on > > > "Edit My Membership" on the home page. > > > > > > Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com > > > to receive the digest, which includes up to 25 posts at a time > in a > > > single email > > > > > > Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com > > > for the No E-Mail option where you will still be able to read > > > messages on the group and post replies. > > > > > > Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com > > > to receive individual e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > > > > mailto:AquaticLife-fullfeatured@yahoogroups.com > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > ------------------------------------ > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, > Thank You. > ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..>< > ((((º> > PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT > important to > the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY > the SUBJECT > LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- > <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><· > ´¯`·.¸¸. > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. > > If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of > unsubscribing, you > can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My Membership" > on the > home page. > > Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com to receive the digest, > which > includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email > > Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com for the No E-Mail > option where > you will still be able to read messages on the group and post replies. > > Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com to receive individual > e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 43698	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 10/7/2009
Subject: Re: Questions about water

Well you don't want to throw your fish from the QT tank right into the main tank with plants, slowly acclimate them like you're supposed to do with all new fish to new water parameters. Also don't worry so much about your exact pH level for plants, if the plants don't make it try a different kind that do better in higher pH, it's less stressful for you and your fish if you're not trying to change your pH for your plants all the time. Trust me you will thank me later, LOL. I have all planted tanks and I don't use CO2 at all, and my plants all do very well, but I don't have hard to grow plants that require high nutrients and such. I have Walstad natural planted tanks. Amber Lainey Alexander wrote: > > > Hi Lenny - > > Thank you for clarifying this about the CO2 and pH. I think I did > post my fish list recently, but here it is again: > > 7 rummy nose tetras > 8 Siamese algae eaters > 5 cory catfish > 1 pr blue rams > 4 otocinclus > > I hope to add a school of ten or so celestial pearl danios which are > in the QT, but that will be it. > > The main concern I have with my pH is the plants. I have a wide > assortment, and most of them prefer a neutral to slightly acid pH. > Does this mean I would have to lower my tap water for the plants to 7 > pH and then add the co2 and get down to like 6.2? That seems too > difficult and troublesome, which is why I am doing it the way I am. > Basically I throw in one quarter part RO to my tap water to make the > plants happier, and then run the co2 until the co2 meter tells me > there is a plant-happy amount of co2 in the water. At this point, my > pH is about neutral. > > When I go to set up the quarantine, with no co2, the pH is 7.9. So I > will be placing the QT fish into the main tank and was worried that > this would be too drastic a change for them since the co2 in the main > tank brings the pH down to 7. But it sounds like I should not worry > about the change there, and just use my regular tank water for the QT > (with no co2) and the QT fish should be able to adjust to the main > tank with the co2. > > Lainey > http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com <http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com> > > On Oct 7, 2009, at 8:31 PM, Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > > > Using CO2 to change the pH is not really necessary and is a waste > > of CO2. > > Using CO2 to raise the CO2 levels for promoting plant growth is > > good. You > > really should allow your fish to acclimate to your filtered tap > > water and go > > from there. As I stated earlier in this thread, your pH and > > hardness levels > > are NOT that high and your tank's pH and hardness will be even > > lower than > > your tap levels in an established tank... unless you are keeping > > fish that > > absolutely have to have a very low pH. Several of us have asked > > what fish > > you have or plan to have but I haven't seen this information. > > > > Yes, while CO2 will alter the pH, this type of change does not > > affect fish > > for some reason so changing it, thinking you will be making things > > better > > for the fish is simply not effective. The GH and KH remain the same. > > > > This has been discussed repeatedly in planted tank forums. When CO2 > > is not > > used and there is a drastic pH change/crash, usually do to poor water > > quality, it is usually a result of a low KH level and sometimes the > > GH level > > as well. When the KH level gets too low, it can and usually will > > result in > > a pH crash, which can cause pH shock to fish, which is sometimes > > fatal. > > BUT... lowering the pH, even drastically, using CO2 does NOT cause > > health > > effects to fish... because the GH and KH levels should stay the > > same so > > there is no corresponding osmoregulatory shock to the fish. > > > > In fact, in planted tanks (or ponds) without CO2 injection, the pH > > level > > will often change by more than a full point during a 24 hour period > > because, > > during the day, when the plants are using up available CO2 during > > photosynthesis. This raises the pH during the day. Then at night, some > > plants actually reverse the process, taking in O2 and putting out > > CO2, which > > results in a much lower pH at night... BUT once again, this change > > in pH as > > a result in CO2 levels DOES NOT seem to affect fish like a pH crash > > that is > > not a result of CO2 injection. > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the > > right > > side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, > > Month) > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On > > Behalf Of Lainey Alexander > > Sent: Wednesday, October 07, 2009 5:27 PM > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: Questions about water > > > > I just want to thank everyone for feedback on my water issues. I am > > busy > > trying to troubleshoot this quarantine set up so not writing back, > > but very > > much appreciate your help. So far I haven't gotten too far, all I > > have come > > up with is to transfer my CO2 back and forth from the main tank to the > > quarantine - tedious but it does maintain the pH for both tanks. As > > long as > > I don't leave the house! > > > > I have done many of the 48 hour tests... > > > > Going to try bottled water from the store tonight for the QT wish > > me luck! > > > > Lainey > > http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com <http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com> > > > > On Oct 7, 2009, at 3:48 PM, bill 1433 wrote: > > > > > No worries Robb! > > > > > > It's just that I have had recent experience with my own well water. > > > This water had 0 hardness and a pH of 5.5 to 5.8! Since all LPS were > > > in the 7.0 ranges, with a hardness level of 5, I think you can > > readily > > > see the problem. But changing as I did, in the end I decided to > > bring > > > MY tanks more into line with the local shops. The reason again, > > time. > > > To get the fish into my well water safely took well over a month. > > This > > > was added work and expense in keeping another tank up and running > > for > > > no other reason other than to acclimate new fish. > > > > > > Working very closely with a guy who has since become a good > > friend and > > > a fellow "old-timer" like myself, I slowly brought my tanks into a > > > more neutral state and with some hardness value. But in saying > > all of > > > that I should also mention that these new or controlled water > > > parameters are all controlled by regular water changes and standard > > > tank maintenance, without which the fish would not survive. > > > > > > Bill > > > > > > --- On Wed, 10/7/09, robbrouse <robbrouse@... > <mailto:robbrouse%40comcast.net>> wrote: > > > > > > > From: robbrouse <robbrouse@... > <mailto:robbrouse%40comcast.net>> > > > > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Questions about water > > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > Date: Wednesday, October 7, 2009, 3:07 PM Bill, hard a brain > > cramp I > > > > guess. You are more than right you want to take a full month or so > > > > to convert it over not 10 days. Guess I should either pay less > > > > attention to work or more to the post I enter (LOL). Yes do the > > 5 to > > > > 10% every 4 days maybe 5. Again sorry for this information been to > > > > busy at work to give advice sorry about that. > > > > > > > > Robb > > > > > > > > > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>, > > > > bill 1433 <warrenprint@...> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > Hi Rob, > > > > > > > > > > I would agree here but save for the speed! > > > > Everything you said but in half. A 5 or 10 % water change, or in a > > > > 10-gallon tank, 1 gallon changed every four days, at most. With > > > > such a wide parameter range as hers, slower is definitely better. > > > > Don't you agree? > > > > > > > > > > Bill > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > --- On Wed, 10/7/09, robbrouse <robbrouse@...> > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > From: robbrouse <robbrouse@...> > > > > > > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Questions about water > > > > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > Date: Wednesday, October 7, 2009, 1:52 PM Thanks Bill totally > > > > > > forgot about this. > > > > > > > > > > > > How I would start this process would be start > > > > with 5 or 10% > > > > > > water changed do them one or two times a day with > > > > 10 or 12 > > > > > > hours in-between if it's 2 times a day. > > > > > > > > > > > > Make sure that the water you are converting over > > > > to is the > > > > > > same perimeters. Same PH, GH, KH and all that. I > > > > had a buddy > > > > > > that was using spring water. He was using nothing > > > > but spring > > > > > > water and was doing this for over a year and then > > > > out of the > > > > > > blue decided driving 25 miles every week was more > > > > work than > > > > > > it was worth. So what he did was started a 30 day > > > > conversion > > > > > > process. Start doing 5% water changed twice a > > > > day. He did > > > > > > the gravel vacuum and everything just took out a > > > > small > > > > > > amount of water. He had about a total of 200 > > > > gallons between > > > > > > several tanks. So we are only talking 10 Gallons > > > > a day > > > > > > spread out between a few tanks. > > > > > > > > > > > > I remember him telling me it was a log of work > > > > over that 30 > > > > > > days, but after all was said and done they > > > > adapted to his > > > > > > tap water and he told me he lsot 2 fish during > > > > this and has > > > > > > no way to know if this was do to the change or > > > > just old age > > > > > > one was a 13 year old gold fish. > > > > > > > > > > > > It will be a lot of work, but it will be easier > > > > using > > > > > > straight tap water and not messing with RO. Now > > > > if you tap > > > > > > water is so far out there maybe you'll want to > > > > start using > > > > > > RO, but same thing if the perimeters are > > > > different than your > > > > > > set up now you'll want to still slowly convert > > > > them over. > > > > > > > > > > > > Robb From Utah. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>, bill 1433 <warrenprint@> > > > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Hi again Lainey, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Rob does mention one very important detail > > > > on your > > > > > > water. Yes, most of the time, fish will adapt > > > > BUT the > > > > > > secret is TIME. How long and how well you carry > > > > over any > > > > > > changes to your fishes' current water parameters > > > > is very > > > > > > important. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ------------------------------------ > > > > > > > > > > > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it > > > > when > > > > > > replying, Thank You. > > > > > > > > > > ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> > > > > > > ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , > > > > .·´¯`·..><((((º> > > > > > > PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT > > > > that is > > > > > > NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the > > > > TOPIC of > > > > > > the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE > > > > -> i.e. "new > > > > > > subject (was re: old subject)" <- > > > > > > > > > > <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. > > > > > > , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. > > > > > > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this > > > > matter. > > > > > > > > > > > > If you do not want all of the groups emails, > > > > instead of > > > > > > unsubscribing, you can change your delivery > > > > option by > > > > > > clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the home > > > > page. > > > > > > > > > > > > Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:aquaticlife-digest%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > to receive the digest, which includes up to 25 > > > > posts at a > > > > > > time in a single email > > > > > > > > > > > > Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:aquaticlife-nomail%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > for the No E-Mail option where you will still be > > > > able to > > > > > > read messages on the group and post replies. > > > > > > > > > > > > Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:aquaticlife-normal%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > to receive individual e-mails.Yahoo! Groups > > > > Links > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > mailto:AquaticLife-fullfeatured@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife-fullfeatured%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ------------------------------------ > > > > > > > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, > > > > Thank You. > > > > ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> > > > > ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> > > > > PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT > > > > important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original > > > > message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old > > > > subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. > > > > , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. > > > > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. > > > > > > > > If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of > > > > unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by clicking on > > > > "Edit My Membership" on the home page. > > > > > > > > Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:aquaticlife-digest%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > to receive the digest, which includes up to 25 posts at a time > > in a > > > > single email > > > > > > > > Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:aquaticlife-nomail%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > for the No E-Mail option where you will still be able to read > > > > messages on the group and post replies. > > > > > > > > Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:aquaticlife-normal%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > to receive individual e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > > > > > > > mailto:AquaticLife-fullfeatured@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife-fullfeatured%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > ------------------------------------ > > > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, > > Thank You. > > ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..>< > > ((((º> > > PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT > > important to > > the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY > > the SUBJECT > > LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- > > <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><· > > ´¯`·.¸¸. > > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. > > > > If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of > > unsubscribing, you > > can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My Membership" > > on the > > home page. > > > > Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:aquaticlife-digest%40yahoogroups.com> to receive the digest, > > which > > includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email > > > > Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:aquaticlife-nomail%40yahoogroups.com> for the No E-Mail > > option where > > you will still be able to read messages on the group and post replies. > > > > Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:aquaticlife-normal%40yahoogroups.com> to receive individual > > e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 43699	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 10/7/2009
Subject: Re: Questions about water

Instead of all of the CO2 and RO water and/or stuff like that, you should probably just use Peat "tea" water as a percentage of your tank's water and during PWC's instead or practice using Peat Moss in your filter to keep your pH and hardness levels down. You will have to run carbon or other more advanced chemical filtration like the Purigen I mentioned earlier to remove the tannins from the water (makes the water look tannish to brownish colored) but the Peat Moss is cheap and you could make a large garbage can full of Peat "tea" for a heck of a lot cheaper than doing RO water or buying distilled bottled water. Remember that the pH level that you see when you are running CO2 injection is kind of an artificial pH, it's not the real pH. The CO2 is only temporarily affecting the *real* pH level by the fact that the CO2 saturation is higher in the tank. The rest of the water's parameters for GH and KH are the same for osmoregulatory issues. Using Peat Moss in your filter or making Peat "tea" in a separate garbage can and using a certain percentage of the Peat "tea" when doing PWC's to maintain consistent water hardness levels would probably be the way I would go BUT... have you ever tried your plants with just your basic tap water? I have higher pH, hard water down here and my plants do fine. Of course, I have all easy to grow plants so they likely acclimate much easier but there are many plants that do fine in harder, higher pH water. Here's a PlantedTank.net thread which lists a lot of them. http://www.plantedtank.net/forums/general-planted-tank-discussion/86268-pick ing-fish-plants-hard-water-high.html When setting up your Q-tank, use your main tank's water, so that the pH and hardness levels should be lower than right out of your tap since the main tank's ecology should have used up some of the minerals. You should also find out more about the water where you are buying your fish. If the fish were born and raised in the same kind of water that you have, then acclimation is not as much of an issue and you would have to take care when you start to lower the pH and hardness levels so you do not shock the fish from your attempts to *try* and make things better for them. You could be making it worse for the fish. Whatever you do, do it SLOWLY so both the fish and plants can slowly acclimate to any changes you make. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Lainey Alexander Sent: Wednesday, October 07, 2009 8:21 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: Questions about water Hi Lenny - Thank you for clarifying this about the CO2 and pH. I think I did post my fish list recently, but here it is again: 7 rummy nose tetras 8 Siamese algae eaters 5 cory catfish 1 pr blue rams 4 otocinclus I hope to add a school of ten or so celestial pearl danios which are in the QT, but that will be it. The main concern I have with my pH is the plants. I have a wide assortment, and most of them prefer a neutral to slightly acid pH. Does this mean I would have to lower my tap water for the plants to 7 pH and then add the co2 and get down to like 6.2? That seems too difficult and troublesome, which is why I am doing it the way I am. Basically I throw in one quarter part RO to my tap water to make the plants happier, and then run the co2 until the co2 meter tells me there is a plant-happy amount of co2 in the water. At this point, my pH is about neutral. When I go to set up the quarantine, with no co2, the pH is 7.9. So I will be placing the QT fish into the main tank and was worried that this would be too drastic a change for them since the co2 in the main tank brings the pH down to 7. But it sounds like I should not worry about the change there, and just use my regular tank water for the QT (with no co2) and the QT fish should be able to adjust to the main tank with the co2. Lainey http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com On Oct 7, 2009, at 8:31 PM, Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > Using CO2 to change the pH is not really necessary and is a waste of > CO2. > Using CO2 to raise the CO2 levels for promoting plant growth is good. > You really should allow your fish to acclimate to your filtered tap > water and go from there. As I stated earlier in this thread, your pH > and hardness levels are NOT that high and your tank's pH and hardness > will be even lower than your tap levels in an established tank... > unless you are keeping fish that absolutely have to have a very low > pH. Several of us have asked what fish you have or plan to have but I > haven't seen this information. > > Yes, while CO2 will alter the pH, this type of change does not affect > fish for some reason so changing it, thinking you will be making > things better for the fish is simply not effective. The GH and KH > remain the same. > > This has been discussed repeatedly in planted tank forums. When CO2 is > not used and there is a drastic pH change/crash, usually do to poor > water quality, it is usually a result of a low KH level and sometimes > the GH level as well. When the KH level gets too low, it can and > usually will result in a pH crash, which can cause pH shock to fish, > which is sometimes fatal. > BUT... lowering the pH, even drastically, using CO2 does NOT cause > health effects to fish... because the GH and KH levels should stay the > same so there is no corresponding osmoregulatory shock to the fish. > > In fact, in planted tanks (or ponds) without CO2 injection, the pH > level will often change by more than a full point during a 24 hour > period because, during the day, when the plants are using up available > CO2 during photosynthesis. This raises the pH during the day. Then at > night, some plants actually reverse the process, taking in O2 and > putting out CO2, which results in a much lower pH at night... BUT once > again, this change in pH as a result in CO2 levels DOES NOT seem to > affect fish like a pH crash that is not a result of CO2 injection. > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles > referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically > under Labels and also under Archives by Year, > Month) > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Lainey Alexander > Sent: Wednesday, October 07, 2009 5:27 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: Questions about water > > I just want to thank everyone for feedback on my water issues. I am > busy trying to troubleshoot this quarantine set up so not writing > back, but very much appreciate your help. So far I haven't gotten too > far, all I have come up with is to transfer my CO2 back and forth from > the main tank to the quarantine - tedious but it does maintain the pH > for both tanks. As long as I don't leave the house! > > I have done many of the 48 hour tests... > > Going to try bottled water from the store tonight for the QT wish me > luck! > > Lainey > http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com > > On Oct 7, 2009, at 3:48 PM, bill 1433 wrote: > > > No worries Robb! > > > > It's just that I have had recent experience with my own well water. > > This water had 0 hardness and a pH of 5.5 to 5.8! Since all LPS were > > in the 7.0 ranges, with a hardness level of 5, I think you can > readily > > see the problem. But changing as I did, in the end I decided to > bring > > MY tanks more into line with the local shops. The reason again, > time. > > To get the fish into my well water safely took well over a month. > This > > was added work and expense in keeping another tank up and running > for > > no other reason other than to acclimate new fish. > > > > Working very closely with a guy who has since become a good > friend and > > a fellow "old-timer" like myself, I slowly brought my tanks into a > > more neutral state and with some hardness value. But in saying > all of > > that I should also mention that these new or controlled water > > parameters are all controlled by regular water changes and standard > > tank maintenance, without which the fish would not survive. > > > > Bill > > > > --- On Wed, 10/7/09, robbrouse <robbrouse@...> wrote: > > > > > From: robbrouse <robbrouse@...> > > > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Questions about water > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > > Date: Wednesday, October 7, 2009, 3:07 PM Bill, hard a brain > cramp I > > > guess. You are more than right you want to take a full month or so > > > to convert it over not 10 days. Guess I should either pay less > > > attention to work or more to the post I enter (LOL). Yes do the > 5 to > > > 10% every 4 days maybe 5. Again sorry for this information been to > > > busy at work to give advice sorry about that. > > > > > > Robb > > > > > > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, bill 1433 <warrenprint@...> > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > Hi Rob, > > > > > > > > I would agree here but save for the speed! > > > Everything you said but in half. A 5 or 10 % water change, or in a > > > 10-gallon tank, 1 gallon changed every four days, at most. With > > > such a wide parameter range as hers, slower is definitely better. > > > Don't you agree? > > > > > > > > Bill > > > > > > > > > > > > --- On Wed, 10/7/09, robbrouse <robbrouse@...> > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > From: robbrouse <robbrouse@...> > > > > > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Questions about water > > > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > > > > Date: Wednesday, October 7, 2009, 1:52 PM Thanks Bill totally > > > > > forgot about this. > > > > > > > > > > How I would start this process would be start > > > with 5 or 10% > > > > > water changed do them one or two times a day with > > > 10 or 12 > > > > > hours in-between if it's 2 times a day. > > > > > > > > > > Make sure that the water you are converting over > > > to is the > > > > > same perimeters. Same PH, GH, KH and all that. I > > > had a buddy > > > > > that was using spring water. He was using nothing > > > but spring > > > > > water and was doing this for over a year and then > > > out of the > > > > > blue decided driving 25 miles every week was more > > > work than > > > > > it was worth. So what he did was started a 30 day > > > conversion > > > > > process. Start doing 5% water changed twice a > > > day. He did > > > > > the gravel vacuum and everything just took out a > > > small > > > > > amount of water. He had about a total of 200 > > > gallons between > > > > > several tanks. So we are only talking 10 Gallons > > > a day > > > > > spread out between a few tanks. > > > > > > > > > > I remember him telling me it was a log of work > > > over that 30 > > > > > days, but after all was said and done they > > > adapted to his > > > > > tap water and he told me he lsot 2 fish during > > > this and has > > > > > no way to know if this was do to the change or > > > just old age > > > > > one was a 13 year old gold fish. > > > > > > > > > > It will be a lot of work, but it will be easier > > > using > > > > > straight tap water and not messing with RO. Now > > > if you tap > > > > > water is so far out there maybe you'll want to > > > start using > > > > > RO, but same thing if the perimeters are > > > different than your > > > > > set up now you'll want to still slowly convert > > > them over. > > > > > > > > > > Robb From Utah. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, bill 1433 <warrenprint@> > > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > Hi again Lainey, > > > > > > > > > > > > Rob does mention one very important detail > > > on your > > > > > water. Yes, most of the time, fish will adapt > > > BUT the > > > > > secret is TIME. How long and how well you carry > > > over any > > > > > changes to your fishes' current water parameters > > > is very > > > > > important.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 43700	From: bill 1433	Date: 10/8/2009
Subject: Re: Questions about water

Hi Lainey In your fish list you have Rams and Cory's among the others. The reason I am pointing this out is because I know for a fact that Rams are very demanding as to their tanks conditions. They simply will not tolerate bad ones! I mention this in light of a part of a message sent a while ago from Lenny talking about being content with your "old" or past conditions. I must tell you that however far off you think they are, Lenny is right. Whatever your doing, your doing well or right and I highly suggest you continue with it! Why? As I said, Rams are cranky about water conditions. So much so that I can tell you this, those fish would not be alive now without good water. I'm from the "old school" starting back in the 70's, and have returned to the hobby and became active just a bit over a year ago. I have spent all of this time with, and devoting myself to Rams. If you have these fish a month or more, and they are healthy, eating and active, you're doing something very right! Also with Corys, if they are active and doing well they are a very good indicator of tank and water conditions over all. If they become inactive and almost lethargic and not searching for food, you can almost bet that you have something wrong. Are these fish all in a 32-gallon tank, I think you mentioned? Keep us posted? Bill --- On Wed, 10/7/09, Lainey Alexander <lainealex@...> wrote: > From: Lainey Alexander <lainealex@...> > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: Questions about water > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Date: Wednesday, October 7, 2009, 9:21 PM > Hi Lenny - > > Thank you for clarifying this about the CO2 and pH. I think > I did  > post my fish list recently, but here it is again: > > 7 rummy nose tetras > 8 Siamese algae eaters > 5 cory catfish > 1 pr blue rams > 4 otocinclus > > I hope to add a school of ten or so celestial pearl danios > which are  > in the QT, but that will be it. > > The main concern I have with my pH is the plants. I have a > wide  > assortment, and most of them prefer a neutral to slightly > acid pH.  > Does this mean I would have to lower my tap water for the > plants to 7  > pH and then add the co2 and get down to like 6.2? That > seems too  > difficult and troublesome, which is why I am doing it the > way I am.  > Basically I throw in one quarter part RO to my tap water to > make the  > plants happier, and then run the co2 until the co2 meter > tells me  > there is a plant-happy amount of co2 in the water. At this > point, my  > pH is about neutral. > > When I go to set up the quarantine, with no co2, the pH is > 7.9. So I  > will be placing the QT fish into the main tank and was > worried that  > this would be too drastic a change for them since the co2 > in the main  > tank brings the pH down to 7. But it sounds like I should > not worry  > about the change there, and just use my regular tank water > for the QT  > (with no co2) and the QT fish should be able to adjust to > the main  > tank with the co2. > > Lainey > http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com > > On Oct 7, 2009, at 8:31 PM, Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > > > Using CO2 to change the pH is not really necessary and > is a waste  > > of CO2. > > Using CO2 to raise the CO2 levels for promoting plant > growth is  > > good. You > > really should allow your fish to acclimate to your > filtered tap  > > water and go > > from there. As I stated earlier in this thread, your > pH and  > > hardness levels > > are NOT that high and your tank's pH and hardness will > be even  > > lower than > > your tap levels in an established tank... unless you > are keeping  > > fish that > > absolutely have to have a very low pH. Several of us > have asked  > > what fish > > you have or plan to have but I haven't seen this > information. > > > > Yes, while CO2 will alter the pH, this type of change > does not  > > affect fish > > for some reason so changing it, thinking you will be > making things  > > better > > for the fish is simply not effective. The GH and KH > remain the same. > > > > This has been discussed repeatedly in planted tank > forums. When CO2  > > is not > > used and there is a drastic pH change/crash, usually > do to poor water > > quality, it is usually a result of a low KH level and > sometimes the  > > GH level > > as well. When the KH level gets too low, it can and > usually will  > > result in > > a pH crash, which can cause pH shock to fish, which is > sometimes  > > fatal. > > BUT... lowering the pH, even drastically, using CO2 > does NOT cause  > > health > > effects to fish... because the GH and KH levels should > stay the  > > same so > > there is no corresponding osmoregulatory shock to the > fish. > > > > In fact, in planted tanks (or ponds) without CO2 > injection, the pH  > > level > > will often change by more than a full point during a > 24 hour period  > > because, > > during the day, when the plants are using up available > CO2 during > > photosynthesis. This raises the pH during the day. > Then at night, some > > plants actually reverse the process, taking in O2 and > putting out  > > CO2, which > > results in a much lower pH at night... BUT once again, > this change  > > in pH as > > a result in CO2 levels DOES NOT seem to affect fish > like a pH crash  > > that is > > not a result of CO2 injection. > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > > (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are > listed on the  > > right > > side, alphabetically under Labels and also under > Archives by Year,  > > Month) > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com  > > > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] > On > > Behalf Of Lainey Alexander > > Sent: Wednesday, October 07, 2009 5:27 PM > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: Questions about water > > > > I just want to thank everyone for feedback on my water > issues. I am  > > busy > > trying to troubleshoot this quarantine set up so not > writing back,  > > but very > > much appreciate your help. So far I haven't gotten too > far, all I  > > have come > > up with is to transfer my CO2 back and forth from the > main tank to the > > quarantine - tedious but it does maintain the pH for > both tanks. As  > > long as > > I don't leave the house! > > > > I have done many of the 48 hour tests... > > > > Going to try bottled water from the store tonight for > the QT wish  > > me luck! > > > > Lainey > > http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com > > > > On Oct 7, 2009, at 3:48 PM, bill 1433 wrote: > > > > > No worries Robb! > > > > > > It's just that I have had recent experience with > my own well water. > > > This water had 0 hardness and a pH of 5.5 to 5.8! > Since all LPS were > > > in the 7.0 ranges, with a hardness level of 5, I > think you can  > > readily > > > see the problem. But changing as I did, in the > end I decided to  > > bring > > > MY tanks more into line with the local shops. The > reason again,  > > time. > > > To get the fish into my well water safely took > well over a month.  > > This > > > was added work and expense in keeping another > tank up and running  > > for > > > no other reason other than to acclimate new > fish. > > > > > > Working very closely with a guy who has since > become a good  > > friend and > > > a fellow "old-timer" like myself, I slowly > brought my tanks into a > > > more neutral state and with some hardness value. > But in saying  > > all of > > > that I should also mention that these new or > controlled water > > > parameters are all controlled by regular water > changes and standard > > > tank maintenance, without which the fish would > not survive. > > > > > > Bill > > > > > > --- On Wed, 10/7/09, robbrouse <robbrouse@...> > wrote: > > > > > > > From: robbrouse <robbrouse@...> > > > > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Questions about > water > > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > > > Date: Wednesday, October 7, 2009, 3:07 PM > Bill, hard a brain  > > cramp I > > > > guess. You are more than right you want to > take a full month or so > > > > to convert it over not 10 days. Guess I > should either pay less > > > > attention to work or more to the post I > enter (LOL). Yes do the  > > 5 to > > > > 10% every 4 days maybe 5. Again sorry for > this information been to > > > > busy at work to give advice sorry about > that. > > > > > > > > Robb > > > > > > > > > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, > > > > bill 1433 <warrenprint@...> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > Hi Rob, > > > > > > > > > > I would agree here but save for the > speed! > > > > Everything you said but in half. A 5 or 10 % > water change, or in a > > > > 10-gallon tank, 1 gallon changed every four > days, at most. With > > > > such a wide parameter range as hers, slower > is definitely better. > > > > Don't you agree? > > > > > > > > > > Bill > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > --- On Wed, 10/7/09, robbrouse > <robbrouse@...> > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > From: robbrouse > <robbrouse@...> > > > > > > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: > Questions about water > > > > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > > > > > Date: Wednesday, October 7, 2009, > 1:52 PM Thanks Bill totally > > > > > > forgot about this. > > > > > > > > > > > > How I would start this process > would be start > > > > with 5 or 10% > > > > > > water changed do them one or two > times a day with > > > > 10 or 12 > > > > > > hours in-between if it's 2 times a > day. > > > > > > > > > > > > Make sure that the water you are > converting over > > > > to is the > > > > > > same perimeters. Same PH, GH, KH > and all that. I > > > > had a buddy > > > > > > that was using spring water. He > was using nothing > > > > but spring > > > > > > water and was doing this for over > a year and then > > > > out of the > > > > > > blue decided driving 25 miles > every week was more > > > > work than > > > > > > it was worth. So what he did was > started a 30 day > > > > conversion > > > > > > process. Start doing 5% water > changed twice a > > > > day. He did > > > > > > the gravel vacuum and everything > just took out a > > > > small > > > > > > amount of water. He had about a > total of 200 > > > > gallons between > > > > > > several tanks. So we are only > talking 10 Gallons > > > > a day > > > > > > spread out between a few tanks. > > > > > > > > > > > > I remember him telling me it was a > log of work > > > > over that 30 > > > > > > days, but after all was said and > done they > > > > adapted to his > > > > > > tap water and he told me he lsot 2 > fish during > > > > this and has > > > > > > no way to know if this was do to > the change or > > > > just old age > > > > > > one was a 13 year old gold fish. > > > > > > > > > > > > It will be a lot of work, but it > will be easier > > > > using > > > > > > straight tap water and not messing > with RO. Now > > > > if you tap > > > > > > water is so far out there maybe > you'll want to > > > > start using > > > > > > RO, but same thing if the > perimeters are > > > > different than your > > > > > > set up now you'll want to still > slowly convert > > > > them over. > > > > > > > > > > > > Robb From Utah. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, > bill 1433 <warrenprint@> > > > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Hi again Lainey, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Rob does mention one very > important detail > > > > on your > > > > > > water. Yes, most of the time, fish > will adapt > > > > BUT the > > > > > > secret is TIME. How long and how > well you carry > > > > over any > > > > > > changes to your fishes' current > water parameters > > > > is very > > > > > > important. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ------------------------------------ > > > > > > > > > > > > Please, DELETE this line and > EVERYTHING below it > > > > when > > > > > > replying, Thank You. > > > > > > > > > > > ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> > > > > > > ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , > > > > .·´¯`·..><((((º> > > > > > > PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, > DELETE all TEXT > > > > that is > > > > > > NOT important to the reply & > if CHANGING the > > > > TOPIC of > > > > > > the original message MODIFY the > SUBJECT LINE > > > > -> i.e. "new > > > > > > subject (was re: old subject)" > <- > > > > > > > > > > > <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. > > > > > > , > .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. > > > > > > We Thank You in Advance for Your > HELP in this > > > > matter. > > > > > > > > > > > > If you do not want all of the > groups emails, > > > > instead of > > > > > > unsubscribing, you can change your > delivery > > > > option by > > > > > > clicking on "Edit My Membership" > on the home > > > > page. > > > > > > > > > > > > Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com > > > > > > to receive the digest, which > includes up to 25 > > > > posts at a > > > > > > time in a single email > > > > > > > > > > > > Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com > > > > > > for the No E-Mail option where you > will still be > > > > able to > > > > > > read messages on the group and > post replies. > > > > > > > > > > > > Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com > > > > > > to receive individual > e-mails.Yahoo! Groups > > > > Links > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > mailto:AquaticLife-fullfeatured@yahoogroups.com > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ------------------------------------ > > > > > > > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING > below it when replying, > > > > Thank You. > > > > > ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> > > > > ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , > .·´¯`·..><((((º> > > > > PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all > TEXT that is NOT > > > > important to the reply & if CHANGING the > TOPIC of the original > > > > message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. > "new subject (was re: old > > > > subject)" <- > <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. > > > > , > .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. > > > > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in > this matter. > > > > > > > > If you do not want all of the groups emails, > instead of > > > > unsubscribing, you can change your delivery > option by clicking on > > > > "Edit My Membership" on the home page. > > > > > > > > Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com > > > > to receive the digest, which includes up to > 25 posts at a time  > > in a > > > > single email > > > > > > > > Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com > > > > for the No E-Mail option where you will > still be able to read > > > > messages on the group and post replies. > > > > > > > > Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com > > > > to receive individual e-mails.Yahoo! Groups > Links > > > > > > > > > > > > mailto:AquaticLife-fullfeatured@yahoogroups.com > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > ------------------------------------ > > > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when > replying,  > > Thank You. > > > ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> > ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..>< > > ((((º> > > PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that > is NOT  > > important to > > the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original > message MODIFY  > > the SUBJECT > > LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" > <- > > > <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. > , .·´¯`·..<º((((><· > > ´¯`·.¸¸. > > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. > > > > If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead > of  > > unsubscribing, you > > can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit > My Membership"  > > on the > > home page. > > > > Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com > to receive the digest,  > > which > > includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email > > > > Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com > for the No E-Mail  > > option where > > you will still be able to read messages on the group > and post replies. > > > > Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com > to receive individual > > e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > ------------------------------------ > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when > replying, Thank You. > ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> > ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> > PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is > NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of > the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new > subject (was re: old subject)" <- > <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. > , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. > > If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of > unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by > clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the home page.  > > Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com > to receive the digest, which includes up to 25 posts at a > time in a single email > > Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com > for the No E-Mail option where you will still be able to > read messages on the group and post replies. > > Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com > to receive individual e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links > > >     mailto:AquaticLife-fullfeatured@yahoogroups.com > > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 43701	From: jett07002	Date: 10/8/2009
Subject: Re: Questions about water

If I might interject a thought here. I agree with Bill and Lenny about using the water from your house source, be that a spring, well, reservoir, whatever..... I and all the other guys that have been aquarium keepers for a long time advocate using the local water and adapting your fish to that water. You would be surprised at how many fish will adapt. But as it was emphasized here many, many times it has to be done SLOWLY. (For breeding purposes some fish will not breed unless the water is just right. But that's another story.) The main reason for this, as far as I am concerned, is your time and patience....and if you are still buying water, your money, too. You are enthusiastic about doing this right now because either you are new at it and it is novelty; or, you are home for some reason and have nothing else to do. But at some point in time, with all the (needless) work you are making for yourself you are going to get tired and quit. This is sad. The fish should be a pleasure to have as pets and not a drudgery. Now this may seem nuts to you, but the way I acclimate my fish is by putting them in a QT with as much water as I can with parameters that the fish came from. Then I simply take a cup (right, a cup) of water out of the main tank the fish will be kept in. Working around your aquarium room, every few hours, take a cupful of water out of the QT, throw it down the drain and replace it with a cup of water from the main tank. (Do not forget, you are still doing PWCs on the main tank, so this water will be replaced. After a while (at least a week), test the water in the QT and see if it's like, or almost like the water in the main tank. The transition with this cup method is so gradual I doubt very much if the fish will be adversely affected. To boot, you are killing two birds with the same stone, since all new fish should go into a QT for at least two weeks when you bring them home to be sure they are healthy. Fish bought locally should not give you too much of a water problem if they are in the same local as you. Buying on the internet is another story. I always call them up and ask for the water parameters that the fish were kept in and try to have the QT waiting with the water parameters as close as I can get it to theirs. (If they breed their own fish, this is fine. If they get them from another source then it is ANOTHER water change for the fish. LOL, sometimes you just can't win.) I have been doing this for quite a while (since the 60's) and unless a fish was terribly messed up when I got him, I very rarely lost one. As Bill said, he knows Rams and suggests that your water must be pretty good. I never kept Rams, so I do not know. But I keep and breed Angels, Discus and guppies and this has worked for me. It also works for Neons, and other tetras, but I don't try to breed them. joe t

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 43702	From: Lainey Alexander	Date: 10/8/2009
Subject: Re: Questions about water

Thank you, Bill, this is reassuring about the rams. I am encouraged because not only are they doing well, they are growing quite well and developing very strong colors. I got them quite young about four weeks ago. The cories are doing well also, but they are shy and I tend to see them in and among the plant roots rather than out front. They do eat well and charge around when I offer an algae wafer:) The thing I keep worrying about is the quarantine being at pH7.8 which is where it wants to be. The guy at my Boston based LFS scared me by telling me that pH 7.5 was "way too high". I have spoken to lots of people with planted tanks who have convinced me otherwise, but 7.8 seems too high. I am leaving it alone today rather than sticking the CO2 diffuser in there or adding more RO etc. But it does make me nervous. I have ten baby celestial pearl danios in the QT, not big enough to join the main tank, so maybe that's why I'm worried. But I think CPDs like a higher pH? Anyway, I'll know the answers soon enough. Lainey http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com On Oct 8, 2009, at 10:04 AM, bill 1433 wrote: > Hi Lainey > > In your fish list you have Rams and Cory's among the others. The > reason I am pointing this out is because I know for a fact that > Rams are very demanding as to their tanks conditions. They simply > will not tolerate bad ones! > > I mention this in light of a part of a message sent a while ago > from Lenny talking about being content with your "old" or past > conditions. I must tell you that however far off you think they > are, Lenny is right. Whatever your doing, your doing well or right > and I highly suggest you continue with it! Why? > > As I said, Rams are cranky about water conditions. So much so that > I can tell you this, those fish would not be alive now without good > water. I'm from the "old school" starting back in the 70's, and > have returned to the hobby and became active just a bit over a year > ago. I have spent all of this time with, and devoting myself to > Rams. If you have these fish a month or more, and they are healthy, > eating and active, you're doing something very right! Also with > Corys, if they are active and doing well they are a very good > indicator of tank and water conditions over all. If they become > inactive and almost lethargic and not searching for food, you can > almost bet that you have something wrong. Are these fish all in a > 32-gallon tank, I think you mentioned? > > Keep us posted? > > Bill > > --- On Wed, 10/7/09, Lainey Alexander <lainealex@...> wrote: > > > From: Lainey Alexander <lainealex@...> > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: Questions about water > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > Date: Wednesday, October 7, 2009, 9:21 PM > > Hi Lenny - > > > > Thank you for clarifying this about the CO2 and pH. I think > > I did > > post my fish list recently, but here it is again: > > > > 7 rummy nose tetras > > 8 Siamese algae eaters > > 5 cory catfish > > 1 pr blue rams > > 4 otocinclus > > > > I hope to add a school of ten or so celestial pearl danios > > which are > > in the QT, but that will be it. > > > > The main concern I have with my pH is the plants. I have a > > wide > > assortment, and most of them prefer a neutral to slightly > > acid pH. > > Does this mean I would have to lower my tap water for the > > plants to 7 > > pH and then add the co2 and get down to like 6.2? That > > seems too > > difficult and troublesome, which is why I am doing it the > > way I am. > > Basically I throw in one quarter part RO to my tap water to > > make the > > plants happier, and then run the co2 until the co2 meter > > tells me > > there is a plant-happy amount of co2 in the water. At this > > point, my > > pH is about neutral. > > > > When I go to set up the quarantine, with no co2, the pH is > > 7.9. So I > > will be placing the QT fish into the main tank and was > > worried that > > this would be too drastic a change for them since the co2 > > in the main > > tank brings the pH down to 7. But it sounds like I should > > not worry > > about the change there, and just use my regular tank water > > for the QT > > (with no co2) and the QT fish should be able to adjust to > > the main > > tank with the co2. > > > > Lainey > > http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com > > > > On Oct 7, 2009, at 8:31 PM, Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > > > > > Using CO2 to change the pH is not really necessary and > > is a waste > > > of CO2. > > > Using CO2 to raise the CO2 levels for promoting plant > > growth is > > > good. You > > > really should allow your fish to acclimate to your > > filtered tap > > > water and go > > > from there. As I stated earlier in this thread, your > > pH and > > > hardness levels > > > are NOT that high and your tank's pH and hardness will > > be even > > > lower than > > > your tap levels in an established tank... unless you > > are keeping > > > fish that > > > absolutely have to have a very low pH. Several of us > > have asked > > > what fish > > > you have or plan to have but I haven't seen this > > information. > > > > > > Yes, while CO2 will alter the pH, this type of change > > does not > > > affect fish > > > for some reason so changing it, thinking you will be > > making things > > > better > > > for the fish is simply not effective. The GH and KH > > remain the same. > > > > > > This has been discussed repeatedly in planted tank > > forums. When CO2 > > > is not > > > used and there is a drastic pH change/crash, usually > > do to poor water > > > quality, it is usually a result of a low KH level and > > sometimes the > > > GH level > > > as well. When the KH level gets too low, it can and > > usually will > > > result in > > > a pH crash, which can cause pH shock to fish, which is > > sometimes > > > fatal. > > > BUT... lowering the pH, even drastically, using CO2 > > does NOT cause > > > health > > > effects to fish... because the GH and KH levels should > > stay the > > > same so > > > there is no corresponding osmoregulatory shock to the > > fish. > > > > > > In fact, in planted tanks (or ponds) without CO2 > > injection, the pH > > > level > > > will often change by more than a full point during a > > 24 hour period > > > because, > > > during the day, when the plants are using up available > > CO2 during > > > photosynthesis. This raises the pH during the day. > > Then at night, some > > > plants actually reverse the process, taking in O2 and > > putting out > > > CO2, which > > > results in a much lower pH at night... BUT once again, > > this change > > > in pH as > > > a result in CO2 levels DOES NOT seem to affect fish > > like a pH crash > > > that is > > > not a result of CO2 injection. > > > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > > > (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are > > listed on the > > > right > > > side, alphabetically under Labels and also under > > Archives by Year, > > > Month) > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > > > > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] > > On > > > Behalf Of Lainey Alexander > > > Sent: Wednesday, October 07, 2009 5:27 PM > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: Questions about water > > > > > > I just want to thank everyone for feedback on my water > > issues. I am > > > busy > > > trying to troubleshoot this quarantine set up so not > > writing back, > > > but very > > > much appreciate your help. So far I haven't gotten too > > far, all I > > > have come > > > up with is to transfer my CO2 back and forth from the > > main tank to the > > > quarantine - tedious but it does maintain the pH for > > both tanks. As > > > long as > > > I don't leave the house! > > > > > > I have done many of the 48 hour tests... > > > > > > Going to try bottled water from the store tonight for > > the QT wish > > > me luck! > > > > > > Lainey > > > http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com > > > > > > On Oct 7, 2009, at 3:48 PM, bill 1433 wrote: > > > > > > > No worries Robb! > > > > > > > > It's just that I have had recent experience with > > my own well water. > > > > This water had 0 hardness and a pH of 5.5 to 5.8! > > Since all LPS were > > > > in the 7.0 ranges, with a hardness level of 5, I > > think you can > > > readily > > > > see the problem. But changing as I did, in the > > end I decided to > > > bring > > > > MY tanks more into line with the local shops. The > > reason again, > > > time. > > > > To get the fish into my well water safely took > > well over a month. > > > This > > > > was added work and expense in keeping another > > tank up and running > > > for > > > > no other reason other than to acclimate new > > fish. > > > > > > > > Working very closely with a guy who has since > > become a good > > > friend and > > > > a fellow "old-timer" like myself, I slowly > > brought my tanks into a > > > > more neutral state and with some hardness value. > > But in saying > > > all of > > > > that I should also mention that these new or > > controlled water > > > > parameters are all controlled by regular water > > changes and standard > > > > tank maintenance, without which the fish would > > not survive. > > > > > > > > Bill > > > > > > > > --- On Wed, 10/7/09, robbrouse <robbrouse@...> > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > From: robbrouse <robbrouse@...> > > > > > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Questions about > > water > > > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > > > > Date: Wednesday, October 7, 2009, 3:07 PM > > Bill, hard a brain > > > cramp I > > > > > guess. You are more than right you want to > > take a full month or so > > > > > to convert it over not 10 days. Guess I > > should either pay less > > > > > attention to work or more to the post I > > enter (LOL). Yes do the > > > 5 to > > > > > 10% every 4 days maybe 5. Again sorry for > > this information been to > > > > > busy at work to give advice sorry about > > that. > > > > > > > > > > Robb > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, > > > > > bill 1433 <warrenprint@...> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > Hi Rob, > > > > > > > > > > > > I would agree here but save for the > > speed! > > > > > Everything you said but in half. A 5 or 10 % > > water change, or in a > > > > > 10-gallon tank, 1 gallon changed every four > > days, at most. With > > > > > such a wide parameter range as hers, slower > > is definitely better. > > > > > Don't you agree? > > > > > > > > > > > > Bill > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > --- On Wed, 10/7/09, robbrouse > > <robbrouse@...> > > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > From: robbrouse > > <robbrouse@...> > > > > > > > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: > > Questions about water > > > > > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > > > > > > Date: Wednesday, October 7, 2009, > > 1:52 PM Thanks Bill totally > > > > > > > forgot about this. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > How I would start this process > > would be start > > > > > with 5 or 10% > > > > > > > water changed do them one or two > > times a day with > > > > > 10 or 12 > > > > > > > hours in-between if it's 2 times a > > day. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Make sure that the water you are > > converting over > > > > > to is the > > > > > > > same perimeters. Same PH, GH, KH > > and all that. I > > > > > had a buddy > > > > > > > that was using spring water. He > > was using nothing > > > > > but spring > > > > > > > water and was doing this for over > > a year and then > > > > > out of the > > > > > > > blue decided driving 25 miles > > every week was more > > > > > work than > > > > > > > it was worth. So what he did was > > started a 30 day > > > > > conversion > > > > > > > process. Start doing 5% water > > changed twice a > > > > > day. He did > > > > > > > the gravel vacuum and everything > > just took out a > > > > > small > > > > > > > amount of water. He had about a > > total of 200 > > > > > gallons between > > > > > > > several tanks. So we are only > > talking 10 Gallons > > > > > a day > > > > > > > spread out between a few tanks. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I remember him telling me it was a > > log of work > > > > > over that 30 > > > > > > > days, but after all was said and > > done they > > > > > adapted to his > > > > > > > tap water and he told me he lsot 2 > > fish during > > > > > this and has > > > > > > > no way to know if this was do to > > the change or > > > > > just old age > > > > > > > one was a 13 year old gold fish. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > It will be a lot of work, but it > > will be easier > > > > > using > > > > > > > straight tap water and not messing > > with RO. Now > > > > > if you tap > > > > > > > water is so far out there maybe > > you'll want to > > > > > start using > > > > > > > RO, but same thing if the > > perimeters are > > > > > different than your > > > > > > > set up now you'll want to still > > slowly convert > > > > > them over. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Robb From Utah. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, > > bill 1433 <warrenprint@> > > > > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Hi again Lainey, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Rob does mention one very > > important detail > > > > > on your > > > > > > > water. Yes, most of the time, fish > > will adapt > > > > > BUT the > > > > > > > secret is TIME. How long and how > > well you carry > > > > > over any > > > > > > > changes to your fishes' current > > water parameters > > > > > is very > > > > > > > important. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ------------------------------------ > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Please, DELETE this line and > > EVERYTHING below it > > > > > when > > > > > > > replying, Thank You. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> > > > > > > > ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , > > > > > .·´¯`·..><((((º> > > > > > > > PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, > > DELETE all TEXT > > > > > that is > > > > > > > NOT important to the reply & > > if CHANGING the > > > > > TOPIC of > > > > > > > the original message MODIFY the > > SUBJECT LINE > > > > > -> i.e. "new > > > > > > > subject (was re: old subject)" > > <- > > > > > > > > > > > > > > <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. > > > > > > > , > > .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. > > > > > > > We Thank You in Advance for Your > > HELP in this > > > > > matter. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > If you do not want all of the > > groups emails, > > > > > instead of > > > > > > > unsubscribing, you can change your > > delivery > > > > > option by > > > > > > > clicking on "Edit My Membership" > > on the home > > > > > page. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com > > > > > > > to receive the digest, which > > includes up to 25 > > > > > posts at a > > > > > > > time in a single email > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com > > > > > > > for the No E-Mail option where you > > will still be > > > > > able to > > > > > > > read messages on the group and > > post replies. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com > > > > > > > to receive individual > > e-mails.Yahoo! Groups > > > > > Links > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > mailto:AquaticLife-fullfeatured@yahoogroups.com > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ------------------------------------ > > > > > > > > > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING > > below it when replying, > > > > > Thank You. > > > > > > > ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> > > > > > ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , > > .·´¯`·..><((((º> > > > > > PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all > > TEXT that is NOT > > > > > important to the reply & if CHANGING the > > TOPIC of the original > > > > > message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. > > "new subject (was re: old > > > > > subject)" <- > > <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. > > > > > , > > .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. > > > > > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in > > this matter. > > > > > > > > > > If you do not want all of the groups emails, > > instead of > > > > > unsubscribing, you can change your delivery > > option by clicking on > > > > > "Edit My Membership" on the home page. > > > > > > > > > > Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com > > > > > to receive the digest, which includes up to > > 25 posts at a time > > > in a > > > > > single email > > > > > > > > > > Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com > > > > > for the No E-Mail option where you will > > still be able to read > > > > > messages on the group and post replies. > > > > > > > > > > Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com > > > > > to receive individual e-mails.Yahoo! Groups > > Links > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > mailto:AquaticLife-fullfeatured@yahoogroups.com > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > > > ------------------------------------ > > > > > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when > > replying, > > > Thank You. > > > > > ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> > > ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..>< > > > ((((º> > > > PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that > > is NOT > > > important to > > > the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original > > message MODIFY > > > the SUBJECT > > > LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" > > <- > > > > > <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. > > , .·´¯`·..<º((((><· > > > ´¯`·.¸¸. > > > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. > > > > > > If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead > > of > > > unsubscribing, you > > > can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit > > My Membership" > > > on the > > > home page. > > > > > > Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com > > to receive the digest, > > > which > > > includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email > > > > > > Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com > > for the No E-Mail > > > option where > > > you will still be able to read messages on the group > > and post replies. > > > > > > Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com > > to receive individual > > > e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > > > > > ------------------------------------ > > > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when > > replying, Thank You. > > ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> > > ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> > > PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is > > NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of > > the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new > > subject (was re: old subject)" <- > > <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. > > , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. > > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. > > > > If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of > > unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by > > clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the home page. > > > > Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com > > to receive the digest, which includes up to 25 posts at a > > time in a single email > > > > Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com > > for the No E-Mail option where you will still be able to > > read messages on the group and post replies. > > > > Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com > > to receive individual e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > mailto:AquaticLife-fullfeatured@yahoogroups.com > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 43703	From: Lainey Alexander	Date: 10/8/2009
Subject: Re: Questions about water

Is there a system comparable to the Walstad system for saltwater tanks? Thanks, Lainey http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com On Oct 8, 2009, at 12:31 AM, Amber Berglund wrote: > Well you don't want to throw your fish from the QT tank right into the > main tank with plants, slowly acclimate them like you're supposed > to do > with all new fish to new water parameters. > Also don't worry so much about your exact pH level for plants, if the > plants don't make it try a different kind that do better in higher pH, > it's less stressful for you and your fish if you're not trying to > change > your pH for your plants all the time. Trust me you will thank me > later, LOL. > I have all planted tanks and I don't use CO2 at all, and my plants all > do very well, but I don't have hard to grow plants that require high > nutrients and such. I have Walstad natural planted tanks. > > Amber > > Lainey Alexander wrote: > > > > > > Hi Lenny - > > > > Thank you for clarifying this about the CO2 and pH. I think I did > > post my fish list recently, but here it is again: > > > > 7 rummy nose tetras > > 8 Siamese algae eaters > > 5 cory catfish > > 1 pr blue rams > > 4 otocinclus > > > > I hope to add a school of ten or so celestial pearl danios which are > > in the QT, but that will be it. > > > > The main concern I have with my pH is the plants. I have a wide > > assortment, and most of them prefer a neutral to slightly acid pH. > > Does this mean I would have to lower my tap water for the plants > to 7 > > pH and then add the co2 and get down to like 6.2? That seems too > > difficult and troublesome, which is why I am doing it the way I am. > > Basically I throw in one quarter part RO to my tap water to make the > > plants happier, and then run the co2 until the co2 meter tells me > > there is a plant-happy amount of co2 in the water. At this point, my > > pH is about neutral. > > > > When I go to set up the quarantine, with no co2, the pH is 7.9. So I > > will be placing the QT fish into the main tank and was worried that > > this would be too drastic a change for them since the co2 in the > main > > tank brings the pH down to 7. But it sounds like I should not worry > > about the change there, and just use my regular tank water for > the QT > > (with no co2) and the QT fish should be able to adjust to the main > > tank with the co2. > > > > Lainey > > http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com <http:// > www.grasslandsgouldians.com> > > > > On Oct 7, 2009, at 8:31 PM, Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > > > > > Using CO2 to change the pH is not really necessary and is a waste > > > of CO2. > > > Using CO2 to raise the CO2 levels for promoting plant growth is > > > good. You > > > really should allow your fish to acclimate to your filtered tap > > > water and go > > > from there. As I stated earlier in this thread, your pH and > > > hardness levels > > > are NOT that high and your tank's pH and hardness will be even > > > lower than > > > your tap levels in an established tank... unless you are keeping > > > fish that > > > absolutely have to have a very low pH. Several of us have asked > > > what fish > > > you have or plan to have but I haven't seen this information. > > > > > > Yes, while CO2 will alter the pH, this type of change does not > > > affect fish > > > for some reason so changing it, thinking you will be making things > > > better > > > for the fish is simply not effective. The GH and KH remain the > same. > > > > > > This has been discussed repeatedly in planted tank forums. When > CO2 > > > is not > > > used and there is a drastic pH change/crash, usually do to poor > water > > > quality, it is usually a result of a low KH level and sometimes > the > > > GH level > > > as well. When the KH level gets too low, it can and usually will > > > result in > > > a pH crash, which can cause pH shock to fish, which is sometimes > > > fatal. > > > BUT... lowering the pH, even drastically, using CO2 does NOT cause > > > health > > > effects to fish... because the GH and KH levels should stay the > > > same so > > > there is no corresponding osmoregulatory shock to the fish. > > > > > > In fact, in planted tanks (or ponds) without CO2 injection, the pH > > > level > > > will often change by more than a full point during a 24 hour > period > > > because, > > > during the day, when the plants are using up available CO2 during > > > photosynthesis. This raises the pH during the day. Then at > night, some > > > plants actually reverse the process, taking in O2 and putting out > > > CO2, which > > > results in a much lower pH at night... BUT once again, this change > > > in pH as > > > a result in CO2 levels DOES NOT seem to affect fish like a pH > crash > > > that is > > > not a result of CO2 injection. > > > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the > > > right > > > side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, > > > Month) > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On > > > Behalf Of Lainey Alexander > > > Sent: Wednesday, October 07, 2009 5:27 PM > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife% > 40yahoogroups.com> > > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: Questions about water > > > > > > I just want to thank everyone for feedback on my water issues. > I am > > > busy > > > trying to troubleshoot this quarantine set up so not writing back, > > > but very > > > much appreciate your help. So far I haven't gotten too far, all I > > > have come > > > up with is to transfer my CO2 back and forth from the main tank > to the > > > quarantine - tedious but it does maintain the pH for both > tanks. As > > > long as > > > I don't leave the house! > > > > > > I have done many of the 48 hour tests... > > > > > > Going to try bottled water from the store tonight for the QT wish > > > me luck! > > > > > > Lainey > > > http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com <http:// > www.grasslandsgouldians.com> > > > > > > On Oct 7, 2009, at 3:48 PM, bill 1433 wrote: > > > > > > > No worries Robb! > > > > > > > > It's just that I have had recent experience with my own well > water. > > > > This water had 0 hardness and a pH of 5.5 to 5.8! Since all > LPS were > > > > in the 7.0 ranges, with a hardness level of 5, I think you can > > > readily > > > > see the problem. But changing as I did, in the end I decided to > > > bring > > > > MY tanks more into line with the local shops. The reason again, > > > time. > > > > To get the fish into my well water safely took well over a > month. > > > This > > > > was added work and expense in keeping another tank up and > running > > > for > > > > no other reason other than to acclimate new fish. > > > > > > > > Working very closely with a guy who has since become a good > > > friend and > > > > a fellow "old-timer" like myself, I slowly brought my tanks > into a > > > > more neutral state and with some hardness value. But in saying > > > all of > > > > that I should also mention that these new or controlled water > > > > parameters are all controlled by regular water changes and > standard > > > > tank maintenance, without which the fish would not survive. > > > > > > > > Bill > > > > > > > > --- On Wed, 10/7/09, robbrouse <robbrouse@... > > <mailto:robbrouse%40comcast.net>> wrote: > > > > > > > > > From: robbrouse <robbrouse@... > > <mailto:robbrouse%40comcast.net>> > > > > > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Questions about water > > > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > Date: Wednesday, October 7, 2009, 3:07 PM Bill, hard a brain > > > cramp I > > > > > guess. You are more than right you want to take a full > month or so > > > > > to convert it over not 10 days. Guess I should either pay less > > > > > attention to work or more to the post I enter (LOL). Yes do > the > > > 5 to > > > > > 10% every 4 days maybe 5. Again sorry for this information > been to > > > > > busy at work to give advice sorry about that. > > > > > > > > > > Robb > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>, > > > > > bill 1433 <warrenprint@...> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > Hi Rob, > > > > > > > > > > > > I would agree here but save for the speed! > > > > > Everything you said but in half. A 5 or 10 % water change, > or in a > > > > > 10-gallon tank, 1 gallon changed every four days, at most. > With > > > > > such a wide parameter range as hers, slower is definitely > better. > > > > > Don't you agree? > > > > > > > > > > > > Bill > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > --- On Wed, 10/7/09, robbrouse <robbrouse@...> > > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > From: robbrouse <robbrouse@...> > > > > > > > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Questions about water > > > > > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > Date: Wednesday, October 7, 2009, 1:52 PM Thanks Bill > totally > > > > > > > forgot about this. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > How I would start this process would be start > > > > > with 5 or 10% > > > > > > > water changed do them one or two times a day with > > > > > 10 or 12 > > > > > > > hours in-between if it's 2 times a day. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Make sure that the water you are converting over > > > > > to is the > > > > > > > same perimeters. Same PH, GH, KH and all that. I > > > > > had a buddy > > > > > > > that was using spring water. He was using nothing > > > > > but spring > > > > > > > water and was doing this for over a year and then > > > > > out of the > > > > > > > blue decided driving 25 miles every week was more > > > > > work than > > > > > > > it was worth. So what he did was started a 30 day > > > > > conversion > > > > > > > process. Start doing 5% water changed twice a > > > > > day. He did > > > > > > > the gravel vacuum and everything just took out a > > > > > small > > > > > > > amount of water. He had about a total of 200 > > > > > gallons between > > > > > > > several tanks. So we are only talking 10 Gallons > > > > > a day > > > > > > > spread out between a few tanks. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I remember him telling me it was a log of work > > > > > over that 30 > > > > > > > days, but after all was said and done they > > > > > adapted to his > > > > > > > tap water and he told me he lsot 2 fish during > > > > > this and has > > > > > > > no way to know if this was do to the change or > > > > > just old age > > > > > > > one was a 13 year old gold fish. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > It will be a lot of work, but it will be easier > > > > > using > > > > > > > straight tap water and not messing with RO. Now > > > > > if you tap > > > > > > > water is so far out there maybe you'll want to > > > > > start using > > > > > > > RO, but same thing if the perimeters are > > > > > different than your > > > > > > > set up now you'll want to still slowly convert > > > > > them over. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Robb From Utah. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>, bill 1433 <warrenprint@> > > > > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Hi again Lainey, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Rob does mention one very important detail > > > > > on your > > > > > > > water. Yes, most of the time, fish will adapt > > > > > BUT the > > > > > > > secret is TIME. How long and how well you carry > > > > > over any > > > > > > > changes to your fishes' current water parameters > > > > > is very > > > > > > > important. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ------------------------------------ > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it > > > > > when > > > > > > > replying, Thank You. > > > > > > > > > > > > ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> > > > > > > > ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , > > > > > .·´¯`·..><((((º> > > > > > > > PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT > > > > > that is > > > > > > > NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the > > > > > TOPIC of > > > > > > > the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE > > > > > -> i.e. "new > > > > > > > subject (was re: old subject)" <- > > > > > > > > > > > > <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. > > > > > > > , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. > > > > > > > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this > > > > > matter. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > If you do not want all of the groups emails, > > > > > instead of > > > > > > > unsubscribing, you can change your delivery > > > > > option by > > > > > > > clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the home > > > > > page. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com > > <mailto:aquaticlife-digest%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > to receive the digest, which includes up to 25 > > > > > posts at a > > > > > > > time in a single email > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com > > <mailto:aquaticlife-nomail%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > for the No E-Mail option where you will still be > > > > > able to > > > > > > > read messages on the group and post replies. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com > > <mailto:aquaticlife-normal%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > to receive individual e-mails.Yahoo! Groups > > > > > Links > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > mailto:AquaticLife-fullfeatured@yahoogroups.com > > <mailto:AquaticLife-fullfeatured%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ------------------------------------ > > > > > > > > > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when > replying, > > > > > Thank You. > > > > > ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> > > > > > ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> > > > > > PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT > > > > > important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original > > > > > message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was > re: old > > > > > subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. > > > > > , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. > > > > > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. > > > > > > > > > > If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of > > > > > unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by > clicking on > > > > > "Edit My Membership" on the home page. > > > > > > > > > > Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com > > <mailto:aquaticlife-digest%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > to receive the digest, which includes up to 25 posts at a time > > > in a > > > > > single email > > > > > > > > > > Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com > > <mailto:aquaticlife-nomail%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > for the No E-Mail option where you will still be able to read > > > > > messages on the group and post replies. > > > > > > > > > > Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com > > <mailto:aquaticlife-normal%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > to receive individual e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > mailto:AquaticLife-fullfeatured@yahoogroups.com > > <mailto:AquaticLife-fullfeatured%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > > > ------------------------------------ > > > > > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, > > > Thank You. > > > ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..>< > > > ((((º> > > > PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT > > > important to > > > the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY > > > the SUBJECT > > > LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- > > > <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><· > > > ´¯`·.¸¸. > > > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. > > > > > > If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of > > > unsubscribing, you > > > can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My > Membership" > > > on the > > > home page. > > > > > > Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com > > <mailto:aquaticlife-digest%40yahoogroups.com> to receive the digest, > > > which > > > includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email > > > > > > Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com > > <mailto:aquaticlife-nomail%40yahoogroups.com> for the No E-Mail > > > option where > > > you will still be able to read messages on the group and post > replies. > > > > > > Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com > > <mailto:aquaticlife-normal%40yahoogroups.com> to receive individual > > > e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 43704	From: Lainey Alexander	Date: 10/8/2009
Subject: Re: Questions about water

Actually, I have been keeping tanks since the 70s. But never a properly planted tank, which is what I am attempting now. So I have a question about matching water parameters. The place where I got my baby celestial danios has pH of 7.4 and KH of five. My assumption was that my water pretty closely matches theirs because my KH is between four to five, depending on various factors and my pH is between 7.7 and 7.8. I was thinking the higher pH was not that big a deal in comparison with 7.4. Can you all confirm this? Am I in the ballpark or do the parameters need to be more closely matched? Thank you, Lainey http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com On Oct 8, 2009, at 11:18 AM, jett07002 wrote: > > If I might interject a thought here. I agree with Bill and Lenny > about using the water from your house source, be that a spring, > well, reservoir, whatever..... > > I and all the other guys that have been aquarium keepers for a long > time advocate using the local water and adapting your fish to that > water. You would be surprised at how many fish will adapt. But as > it was emphasized here many, many times it has to be done SLOWLY. > (For breeding purposes some fish will not breed unless the water is > just right. But that's another story.) > > The main reason for this, as far as I am concerned, is your time > and patience....and if you are still buying water, your money, too. > > You are enthusiastic about doing this right now because either you > are new at it and it is novelty; or, you are home for some reason > and have nothing else to do. But at some point in time, with all > the (needless) work you are making for yourself you are going to > get tired and quit. This is sad. The fish should be a pleasure to > have as pets and not a drudgery. > > Now this may seem nuts to you, but the way I acclimate my fish is > by putting them in a QT with as much water as I can with parameters > that the fish came from. Then I simply take a cup (right, a cup) of > water out of the main tank the fish will be kept in. Working around > your aquarium room, every few hours, take a cupful of water out of > the QT, throw it down the drain and replace it with a cup of water > from the main tank. (Do not forget, you are still doing PWCs on the > main tank, so this water will be replaced. After a while (at least > a week), test the water in the QT and see if it's like, or almost > like the water in the main tank. The transition with this cup > method is so gradual I doubt very much if the fish will be > adversely affected. To boot, you are killing two birds with the > same stone, since all new fish should go into a QT for at least two > weeks when you bring them home to be sure they are healthy. > > Fish bought locally should not give you too much of a water problem > if they are in the same local as you. Buying on the internet is > another story. I always call them up and ask for the water > parameters that the fish were kept in and try to have the QT > waiting with the water parameters as close as I can get it to > theirs. (If they breed their own fish, this is fine. If they get > them from another source then it is ANOTHER water change for the > fish. LOL, sometimes you just can't win.) > > I have been doing this for quite a while (since the 60's) and > unless a fish was terribly messed up when I got him, I very rarely > lost one. > As Bill said, he knows Rams and suggests that your water must be > pretty good. I never kept Rams, so I do not know. But I keep and > breed Angels, Discus and guppies and this has worked for me. It > also works for Neons, and other tetras, but I don't try to breed them. > > joe t > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 43705	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 10/8/2009
Subject: Re: Questions about water

You need to look at these profiles and info and see what you have. I wasn't familiar with the *celestial* pearl danio so I did some Googling. At first I thought it might be a variant of the regular pearl danio, Brachydanio albolineatus, http://fish.mongabay.com/species/Brachydanio_albolineatus.html BUT another site says that "Celestial Pearl Danio" is a *new* common name for the Galaxy Rasbora, Celestichthys Margaritatus (Previously Microrasboras sp. Galaxy), Common Name: Celestial Pearl Danio, Galaxy Rasboras, Fireworks Rasboras, http://www.aquaticcommunity.com/barbs/celestialpearldanio.php so PLEASE check out the photos. Well, read down further as I think I've solved the problem. The AquaticCommunity profile needs to be updated since the Galaxy Rasbora has been reclassified into the Danio family and now called the Celestial Pearl Danio. Here is Fishbase.org's profile, usually the most reliable when there are conflicting profiles, on the Pearl Danio, Danio albolineatus, and the Celestial Pearl Danio, Danio margaritatus and since the "margaritatus" is the same species name as the species name in the above Galaxy Rasbora profile "C. margaritatus", this probably confirms the reclassification into the Danio genus since the Fishbase profile also lists the common name Galaxy Rasbora for the Celestial Pearl Danio. http://fishbase.org/Summary/SpeciesSummary.php?id=10824 http://fishbase.org/Summary/SpeciesSummary.php?id=63298 (shows the classification in 2007) A further search of Galaxy Rasbora on Fishbase shows the same profile as the Celestial Pearl Danio above so I think that finalizes this issue... for now.. until the next taxonomic debate. LOL Here's more reading about the reclassification that happened in 2008. http://www.practicalfishkeeping.co.uk/pfk/pages/item.php?news=1538 AND A VERY GOOD PROFILE/CARE SHEET ON THEM... PFK is a very trustworthy site for information. http://www.practicalfishkeeping.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?t=19713 Here's a snip about water parameters... Water: In the wild this fish inhabits small and clear shallow ponds, at most 30 cm deep and maintained by seepage or springs. The temperature in it’s natural range varying between 22-24°C. They have proven to be quite adaptable to varying conditions in the aquarium and will happily live and breed in water varying in PH from 6.5 to 7.5 although extremes of hardness should be avoided. A temperature range of 22-25°C is ideal. As you see, they do *best* and even breed in pH from 6.5 to 7.5 but your 7.7 to 7.9 pH is not that much out of range, especially since you got them from a 7.4 pH source, so you should be fine as long as you acclimate them slowly. I wish the above PFK article would have elaborated on what they mean by "extremes of hardness" but I would take that to be MUCH harder than the water you have. 5 dGH is NOT that hard. My water runs around 7-8 dGH. I would say "extremes of hardness" would be above 10 dGH.. or even higher. Last but not least, these are cool water fish, like most other Danio's, so if you have your tank set at tropical temps, and you want to keep these in the same tank as your other fish, you might want to slowly start lowering the tank's temp to the lower end of the tropical scale that is recommended for your other fish. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Lainey Alexander Sent: Thursday, October 08, 2009 10:21 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: Questions about water Thank you, Bill, this is reassuring about the rams. I am encouraged because not only are they doing well, they are growing quite well and developing very strong colors. I got them quite young about four weeks ago. The cories are doing well also, but they are shy and I tend to see them in and among the plant roots rather than out front. They do eat well and charge around when I offer an algae wafer:) The thing I keep worrying about is the quarantine being at pH7.8 which is where it wants to be. The guy at my Boston based LFS scared me by telling me that pH 7.5 was "way too high". I have spoken to lots of people with planted tanks who have convinced me otherwise, but 7.8 seems too high. I am leaving it alone today rather than sticking the CO2 diffuser in there or adding more RO etc. But it does make me nervous. I have ten baby celestial pearl danios in the QT, not big enough to join the main tank, so maybe that's why I'm worried. But I think CPDs like a higher pH? Anyway, I'll know the answers soon enough. Lainey http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com On Oct 8, 2009, at 10:04 AM, bill 1433 wrote: > Hi Lainey > > In your fish list you have Rams and Cory's among the others. The > reason I am pointing this out is because I know for a fact that Rams > are very demanding as to their tanks conditions. They simply will not > tolerate bad ones! > > I mention this in light of a part of a message sent a while ago from > Lenny talking about being content with your "old" or past conditions. > I must tell you that however far off you think they are, Lenny is > right. Whatever your doing, your doing well or right and I highly > suggest you continue with it! Why? > > As I said, Rams are cranky about water conditions. So much so that I > can tell you this, those fish would not be alive now without good > water. I'm from the "old school" starting back in the 70's, and have > returned to the hobby and became active just a bit over a year ago. I > have spent all of this time with, and devoting myself to Rams. If you > have these fish a month or more, and they are healthy, eating and > active, you're doing something very right! Also with Corys, if they > are active and doing well they are a very good indicator of tank and > water conditions over all. If they become inactive and almost > lethargic and not searching for food, you can almost bet that you have > something wrong. Are these fish all in a 32-gallon tank, I think you > mentioned? > > Keep us posted? > > Bill > > --- On Wed, 10/7/09, Lainey Alexander <lainealex@...> wrote: > > > From: Lainey Alexander <lainealex@...> > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: Questions about water > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > Date: Wednesday, October 7, 2009, 9:21 PM Hi Lenny - > > > > Thank you for clarifying this about the CO2 and pH. I think I did > > post my fish list recently, but here it is again: > > > > 7 rummy nose tetras > > 8 Siamese algae eaters > > 5 cory catfish > > 1 pr blue rams > > 4 otocinclus > > > > I hope to add a school of ten or so celestial pearl danios which are > > in the QT, but that will be it. > > > > The main concern I have with my pH is the plants. I have a wide > > assortment, and most of them prefer a neutral to slightly acid pH. > > Does this mean I would have to lower my tap water for the plants to > > 7 pH and then add the co2 and get down to like 6.2? That seems too > > difficult and troublesome, which is why I am doing it the way I am. > > Basically I throw in one quarter part RO to my tap water to make the > > plants happier, and then run the co2 until the co2 meter tells me > > there is a plant-happy amount of co2 in the water. At this point, my > > pH is about neutral. > > > > When I go to set up the quarantine, with no co2, the pH is 7.9. So I > > will be placing the QT fish into the main tank and was worried that > > this would be too drastic a change for them since the co2 in the > > main tank brings the pH down to 7. But it sounds like I should not > > worry about the change there, and just use my regular tank water for > > the QT (with no co2) and the QT fish should be able to adjust to the > > main tank with the co2. > > > > Lainey > > http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com > > > > On Oct 7, 2009, at 8:31 PM, Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > > > > > Using CO2 to change the pH is not really necessary and > > is a waste > > > of CO2. > > > Using CO2 to raise the CO2 levels for promoting plant > > growth is > > > good. You > > > really should allow your fish to acclimate to your > > filtered tap > > > water and go > > > from there. As I stated earlier in this thread, your > > pH and > > > hardness levels > > > are NOT that high and your tank's pH and hardness will > > be even > > > lower than > > > your tap levels in an established tank... unless you > > are keeping > > > fish that > > > absolutely have to have a very low pH. Several of us > > have asked > > > what fish > > > you have or plan to have but I haven't seen this > > information. > > > > > > Yes, while CO2 will alter the pH, this type of change > > does not > > > affect fish > > > for some reason so changing it, thinking you will be > > making things > > > better > > > for the fish is simply not effective. The GH and KH > > remain the same. > > > > > > This has been discussed repeatedly in planted tank > > forums. When CO2 > > > is not > > > used and there is a drastic pH change/crash, usually > > do to poor water > > > quality, it is usually a result of a low KH level and > > sometimes the > > > GH level > > > as well. When the KH level gets too low, it can and > > usually will > > > result in > > > a pH crash, which can cause pH shock to fish, which is > > sometimes > > > fatal. > > > BUT... lowering the pH, even drastically, using CO2 > > does NOT cause > > > health > > > effects to fish... because the GH and KH levels should > > stay the > > > same so > > > there is no corresponding osmoregulatory shock to the > > fish. > > > > > > In fact, in planted tanks (or ponds) without CO2 > > injection, the pH > > > level > > > will often change by more than a full point during a > > 24 hour period > > > because, > > > during the day, when the plants are using up available > > CO2 during > > > photosynthesis. This raises the pH during the day. > > Then at night, some > > > plants actually reverse the process, taking in O2 and > > putting out > > > CO2, which > > > results in a much lower pH at night... BUT once again, > > this change > > > in pH as > > > a result in CO2 levels DOES NOT seem to affect fish > > like a pH crash > > > that is > > > not a result of CO2 injection. > > > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles > > > referenced in above reply are > > listed on the > > > right > > > side, alphabetically under Labels and also under > > Archives by Year, > > > Month) > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > > > > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] > > On > > > Behalf Of Lainey Alexander > > > Sent: Wednesday, October 07, 2009 5:27 PM > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: Questions about water > > > > > > I just want to thank everyone for feedback on my water > > issues. I am > > > busy > > > trying to troubleshoot this quarantine set up so not > > writing back, > > > but very > > > much appreciate your help. So far I haven't gotten too > > far, all I > > > have come > > > up with is to transfer my CO2 back and forth from the > > main tank to the > > > quarantine - tedious but it does maintain the pH for > > both tanks. As > > > long as > > > I don't leave the house! > > > > > > I have done many of the 48 hour tests... > > > > > > Going to try bottled water from the store tonight for > > the QT wish > > > me luck! > > > > > > Lainey > > > http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com > > > > > > On Oct 7, 2009, at 3:48 PM, bill 1433 wrote: > > > > > > > No worries Robb! > > > > > > > > It's just that I have had recent experience with > > my own well water. > > > > This water had 0 hardness and a pH of 5.5 to 5.8! > > Since all LPS were > > > > in the 7.0 ranges, with a hardness level of 5, I > > think you can > > > readily > > > > see the problem. But changing as I did, in the > > end I decided to > > > bring > > > > MY tanks more into line with the local shops. The > > reason again, > > > time. > > > > To get the fish into my well water safely took > > well over a month. > > > This > > > > was added work and expense in keeping another > > tank up and running > > > for > > > > no other reason other than to acclimate new > > fish. > > > > > > > > Working very closely with a guy who has since > > become a good > > > friend and > > > > a fellow "old-timer" like myself, I slowly > > brought my tanks into a > > > > more neutral state and with some hardness value. > > But in saying > > > all of > > > > that I should also mention that these new or > > controlled water > > > > parameters are all controlled by regular water > > changes and standard > > > > tank maintenance, without which the fish would > > not survive. > > > > > > > > Bill > > > > > > > > --- On Wed, 10/7/09, robbrouse <robbrouse@...> > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > From: robbrouse <robbrouse@...> > > > > > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Questions about > > water > > > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > > > > Date: Wednesday, October 7, 2009, 3:07 PM > > Bill, hard a brain > > > cramp I > > > > > guess. You are more than right you want to > > take a full month or so > > > > > to convert it over not 10 days. Guess I > > should either pay less > > > > > attention to work or more to the post I > > enter (LOL). Yes do the > > > 5 to > > > > > 10% every 4 days maybe 5. Again sorry for > > this information been to > > > > > busy at work to give advice sorry about > > that. > > > > > > > > > > Robb > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, bill 1433 > > > > > <warrenprint@...> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > Hi Rob, > > > > > > > > > > > > I would agree here but save for the > > speed! > > > > > Everything you said but in half. A 5 or 10 % > > water change, or in a > > > > > 10-gallon tank, 1 gallon changed every four > > days, at most. With > > > > > such a wide parameter range as hers, slower > > is definitely better. > > > > > Don't you agree? > > > > > > > > > > > > Bill > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > --- On Wed, 10/7/09, robbrouse > > <robbrouse@...> > > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > From: robbrouse > > <robbrouse@...> > > > > > > > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: > > Questions about water > > > > > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > > > > > > Date: Wednesday, October 7, 2009, > > 1:52 PM Thanks Bill totally > > > > > > > forgot about this. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > How I would start this process > > would be start > > > > > with 5 or 10% > > > > > > > water changed do them one or two > > times a day with > > > > > 10 or 12 > > > > > > > hours in-between if it's 2 times a > > day. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Make sure that the water you are > > converting over > > > > > to is the > > > > > > > same perimeters. Same PH, GH, KH > > and all that. I > > > > > had a buddy > > > > > > > that was using spring water. He > > was using nothing > > > > > but spring > > > > > > > water and was doing this for over > > a year and then > > > > > out of the > > > > > > > blue decided driving 25 miles > > every week was more > > > > > work than > > > > > > > it was worth. So what he did was > > started a 30 day > > > > > conversion > > > > > > > process. Start doing 5% water > > changed twice a > > > > > day. He did > > > > > > > the gravel vacuum and everything > > just took out a > > > > > small > > > > > > > amount of water. He had about a > > total of 200 > > > > > gallons between > > > > > > > several tanks. So we are only > > talking 10 Gallons > > > > > a day > > > > > > > spread out between a few tanks. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I remember him telling me it was a > > log of work > > > > > over that 30 > > > > > > > days, but after all was said and > > done they > > > > > adapted to his > > > > > > > tap water and he told me he lsot 2 > > fish during > > > > > this and has > > > > > > > no way to know if this was do to > > the change or > > > > > just old age > > > > > > > one was a 13 year old gold fish. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > It will be a lot of work, but it > > will be easier > > > > > using > > > > > > > straight tap water and not messing > > with RO. Now > > > > > if you tap > > > > > > > water is so far out there maybe > > you'll want to > > > > > start using > > > > > > > RO, but same thing if the > > perimeters are > > > > > different than your > > > > > > > set up now you'll want to still > > slowly convert > > > > > them over. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Robb From Utah. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, > > bill 1433 <warrenprint@> > > > > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Hi again Lainey, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Rob does mention one very > > important detail > > > > > on your > > > > > > > water. Yes, most of the time, fish > > will adapt > > > > > BUT the > > > > > > > secret is TIME. How long and how > > well you carry > > > > > over any > > > > > > > changes to your fishes' current > > water parameters > > > > > is very > > > > > > > important.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 43706	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 10/8/2009
Subject: Re: Questions about water

Well, the Walstad system is for a heavily planted, usually low-maintenance... but not always... freshwater tank and other than a Pacific Ocean Kelp bed or a tropical Mangrove biotope or other brackish water seaweed type plants, I don't think there's such a thing as "heavily planted" saltwater tank. I know from my scuba diving experiences that I've never seen a heavily planted saltwater habitat other than the seaweed type plants in some of the bays that I've snorkeled in. The comparable equivalent of a saltwater *planted tank* would be a reef tank. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Lainey Alexander Sent: Thursday, October 08, 2009 12:00 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: Questions about water Is there a system comparable to the Walstad system for saltwater tanks? Thanks, Lainey http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com On Oct 8, 2009, at 12:31 AM, Amber Berglund wrote: > Well you don't want to throw your fish from the QT tank right into the > main tank with plants, slowly acclimate them like you're supposed to > do with all new fish to new water parameters. > Also don't worry so much about your exact pH level for plants, if the > plants don't make it try a different kind that do better in higher pH, > it's less stressful for you and your fish if you're not trying to > change your pH for your plants all the time. Trust me you will thank > me later, LOL. > I have all planted tanks and I don't use CO2 at all, and my plants all > do very well, but I don't have hard to grow plants that require high > nutrients and such. I have Walstad natural planted tanks. > > Amber > > Lainey Alexander wrote: > > > > > > Hi Lenny - > > > > Thank you for clarifying this about the CO2 and pH. I think I did > > post my fish list recently, but here it is again: > > > > 7 rummy nose tetras > > 8 Siamese algae eaters > > 5 cory catfish > > 1 pr blue rams > > 4 otocinclus > > > > I hope to add a school of ten or so celestial pearl danios which are > > in the QT, but that will be it. > > > > The main concern I have with my pH is the plants. I have a wide > > assortment, and most of them prefer a neutral to slightly acid pH. > > Does this mean I would have to lower my tap water for the plants > to 7 > > pH and then add the co2 and get down to like 6.2? That seems too > > difficult and troublesome, which is why I am doing it the way I am. > > Basically I throw in one quarter part RO to my tap water to make the > > plants happier, and then run the co2 until the co2 meter tells me > > there is a plant-happy amount of co2 in the water. At this point, my > > pH is about neutral. > > > > When I go to set up the quarantine, with no co2, the pH is 7.9. So I > > will be placing the QT fish into the main tank and was worried that > > this would be too drastic a change for them since the co2 in the > main > > tank brings the pH down to 7. But it sounds like I should not worry > > about the change there, and just use my regular tank water for > the QT > > (with no co2) and the QT fish should be able to adjust to the main > > tank with the co2. > > > > Lainey > > http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com <http:// > www.grasslandsgouldians.com> > > > > On Oct 7, 2009, at 8:31 PM, Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > > > > > Using CO2 to change the pH is not really necessary and is a waste > > > of CO2. > > > Using CO2 to raise the CO2 levels for promoting plant growth is > > > good. You really should allow your fish to acclimate to your > > > filtered tap water and go from there. As I stated earlier in this > > > thread, your pH and hardness levels are NOT that high and your > > > tank's pH and hardness will be even lower than your tap levels in > > > an established tank... unless you are keeping fish that absolutely > > > have to have a very low pH. Several of us have asked what fish you > > > have or plan to have but I haven't seen this information. > > > > > > Yes, while CO2 will alter the pH, this type of change does not > > > affect fish for some reason so changing it, thinking you will be > > > making things better for the fish is simply not effective. The GH > > > and KH remain the > same. > > > > > > This has been discussed repeatedly in planted tank forums. When > CO2 > > > is not > > > used and there is a drastic pH change/crash, usually do to poor > water > > > quality, it is usually a result of a low KH level and sometimes > the > > > GH level > > > as well. When the KH level gets too low, it can and usually will > > > result in a pH crash, which can cause pH shock to fish, which is > > > sometimes fatal. > > > BUT... lowering the pH, even drastically, using CO2 does NOT cause > > > health effects to fish... because the GH and KH levels should stay > > > the same so there is no corresponding osmoregulatory shock to the > > > fish. > > > > > > In fact, in planted tanks (or ponds) without CO2 injection, the pH > > > level will often change by more than a full point during a 24 hour > period > > > because, > > > during the day, when the plants are using up available CO2 during > > > photosynthesis. This raises the pH during the day. Then at > night, some > > > plants actually reverse the process, taking in O2 and putting out > > > CO2, which results in a much lower pH at night... BUT once again, > > > this change in pH as a result in CO2 levels DOES NOT seem to > > > affect fish like a pH > crash > > > that is > > > not a result of CO2 injection. > > > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the > > > right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by > > > Year, > > > Month) > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On > > > Behalf Of Lainey Alexander > > > Sent: Wednesday, October 07, 2009 5:27 PM > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife% > 40yahoogroups.com> > > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: Questions about water > > > > > > I just want to thank everyone for feedback on my water issues. > I am > > > busy > > > trying to troubleshoot this quarantine set up so not writing back, > > > but very much appreciate your help. So far I haven't gotten too > > > far, all I have come up with is to transfer my CO2 back and forth > > > from the main tank > to the > > > quarantine - tedious but it does maintain the pH for both > tanks. As > > > long as > > > I don't leave the house! > > > > > > I have done many of the 48 hour tests... > > > > > > Going to try bottled water from the store tonight for the QT wish > > > me luck! > > > > > > Lainey > > > http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com <http:// > www.grasslandsgouldians.com> > > > > > > On Oct 7, 2009, at 3:48 PM, bill 1433 wrote: > > > > > > > No worries Robb! > > > > > > > > It's just that I have had recent experience with my own well > water. > > > > This water had 0 hardness and a pH of 5.5 to 5.8! Since all > LPS were > > > > in the 7.0 ranges, with a hardness level of 5, I think you can > > > readily > > > > see the problem. But changing as I did, in the end I decided to > > > bring > > > > MY tanks more into line with the local shops. The reason again, > > > time. > > > > To get the fish into my well water safely took well over a > month. > > > This > > > > was added work and expense in keeping another tank up and > running > > > for > > > > no other reason other than to acclimate new fish. > > > > > > > > Working very closely with a guy who has since become a good > > > friend and > > > > a fellow "old-timer" like myself, I slowly brought my tanks > into a > > > > more neutral state and with some hardness value. But in saying > > > all of > > > > that I should also mention that these new or controlled water > > > > parameters are all controlled by regular water changes and > standard > > > > tank maintenance, without which the fish would not survive. > > > > > > > > Bill > > > > > > > > --- On Wed, 10/7/09, robbrouse <robbrouse@... > > <mailto:robbrouse%40comcast.net>> wrote: > > > > > > > > > From: robbrouse <robbrouse@... > > <mailto:robbrouse%40comcast.net>> > > > > > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Questions about water > > > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > Date: Wednesday, October 7, 2009, 3:07 PM Bill, hard a brain > > > cramp I > > > > > guess. You are more than right you want to take a full > month or so > > > > > to convert it over not 10 days. Guess I should either pay less > > > > > attention to work or more to the post I enter (LOL). Yes do > the > > > 5 to > > > > > 10% every 4 days maybe 5. Again sorry for this information > been to > > > > > busy at work to give advice sorry about that. > > > > > > > > > > Robb > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>, > > > > > bill 1433 <warrenprint@...> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > Hi Rob, > > > > > > > > > > > > I would agree here but save for the speed! > > > > > Everything you said but in half. A 5 or 10 % water change, > or in a > > > > > 10-gallon tank, 1 gallon changed every four days, at most. > With > > > > > such a wide parameter range as hers, slower is definitely > better. > > > > > Don't you agree? > > > > > > > > > > > > Bill > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > --- On Wed, 10/7/09, robbrouse <robbrouse@...> > > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > From: robbrouse <robbrouse@...> > > > > > > > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Questions about water > > > > > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > Date: Wednesday, October 7, 2009, 1:52 PM Thanks Bill > totally > > > > > > > forgot about this. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > How I would start this process would be start > > > > > with 5 or 10% > > > > > > > water changed do them one or two times a day with > > > > > 10 or 12 > > > > > > > hours in-between if it's 2 times a day. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Make sure that the water you are converting over > > > > > to is the > > > > > > > same perimeters. Same PH, GH, KH and all that. I > > > > > had a buddy > > > > > > > that was using spring water. He was using nothing > > > > > but spring > > > > > > > water and was doing this for over a year and then > > > > > out of the > > > > > > > blue decided driving 25 miles every week was more > > > > > work than > > > > > > > it was worth. So what he did was started a 30 day > > > > > conversion > > > > > > > process. Start doing 5% water changed twice a > > > > > day. He did > > > > > > > the gravel vacuum and everything just took out a > > > > > small > > > > > > > amount of water. He had about a total of 200 > > > > > gallons between > > > > > > > several tanks. So we are only talking 10 Gallons > > > > > a day > > > > > > > spread out between a few tanks. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I remember him telling me it was a log of work > > > > > over that 30 > > > > > > > days, but after all was said and done they > > > > > adapted to his > > > > > > > tap water and he told me he lsot 2 fish during > > > > > this and has > > > > > > > no way to know if this was do to the change or > > > > > just old age > > > > > > > one was a 13 year old gold fish. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > It will be a lot of work, but it will be easier > > > > > using > > > > > > > straight tap water and not messing with RO. Now > > > > > if you tap > > > > > > > water is so far out there maybe you'll want to > > > > > start using > > > > > > > RO, but same thing if the perimeters are > > > > > different than your > > > > > > > set up now you'll want to still slowly convert > > > > > them over. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Robb From Utah. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>, bill 1433 <warrenprint@> > > > > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Hi again Lainey, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Rob does mention one very important detail > > > > > on your > > > > > > > water. Yes, most of the time, fish will adapt > > > > > BUT the > > > > > > > secret is TIME. How long and how well you carry > > > > > over any > > > > > > > changes to your fishes' current water parameters > > > > > is very > > > > > > > important.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 43707	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 10/8/2009
Subject: Re: Questions about water

Yes, I think I confirmed this in my previous post. You shouldn't have any problems acclimating your CPD's to your water and once again, remember that even if your 48 hour tap water pH is 7.9, IT WILL come down in your tank due to the normal ecology of a tank... as long as you are not adding anything to raise the pH or hardness of the water. Did you ever do/start the 48 hour baseline testing that I recommended? I'd like to see all of your test results of the same water sample, right out the tap, after 24 hours and then after 48 hours, just to be sure. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Lainey Alexander Sent: Thursday, October 08, 2009 12:40 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: Questions about water Actually, I have been keeping tanks since the 70s. But never a properly planted tank, which is what I am attempting now. So I have a question about matching water parameters. The place where I got my baby celestial danios has pH of 7.4 and KH of five. My assumption was that my water pretty closely matches theirs because my KH is between four to five, depending on various factors and my pH is between 7.7 and 7.8. I was thinking the higher pH was not that big a deal in comparison with 7.4. Can you all confirm this? Am I in the ballpark or do the parameters need to be more closely matched? Thank you, Lainey http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com On Oct 8, 2009, at 11:18 AM, jett07002 wrote: > > If I might interject a thought here. I agree with Bill and Lenny about > using the water from your house source, be that a spring, well, > reservoir, whatever..... > > I and all the other guys that have been aquarium keepers for a long > time advocate using the local water and adapting your fish to that > water. You would be surprised at how many fish will adapt. But as it > was emphasized here many, many times it has to be done SLOWLY. > (For breeding purposes some fish will not breed unless the water is > just right. But that's another story.) > > The main reason for this, as far as I am concerned, is your time and > patience....and if you are still buying water, your money, too. > > You are enthusiastic about doing this right now because either you are > new at it and it is novelty; or, you are home for some reason and have > nothing else to do. But at some point in time, with all the (needless) > work you are making for yourself you are going to get tired and quit. > This is sad. The fish should be a pleasure to have as pets and not a > drudgery. > > Now this may seem nuts to you, but the way I acclimate my fish is by > putting them in a QT with as much water as I can with parameters that > the fish came from. Then I simply take a cup (right, a cup) of water > out of the main tank the fish will be kept in. Working around your > aquarium room, every few hours, take a cupful of water out of the QT, > throw it down the drain and replace it with a cup of water from the > main tank. (Do not forget, you are still doing PWCs on the main tank, > so this water will be replaced. After a while (at least a week), test > the water in the QT and see if it's like, or almost like the water in > the main tank. The transition with this cup method is so gradual I > doubt very much if the fish will be adversely affected. To boot, you > are killing two birds with the same stone, since all new fish should > go into a QT for at least two weeks when you bring them home to be > sure they are healthy. > > Fish bought locally should not give you too much of a water problem if > they are in the same local as you. Buying on the internet is another > story. I always call them up and ask for the water parameters that the > fish were kept in and try to have the QT waiting with the water > parameters as close as I can get it to theirs. (If they breed their > own fish, this is fine. If they get them from another source then it > is ANOTHER water change for the fish. LOL, sometimes you just can't > win.) > > I have been doing this for quite a while (since the 60's) and unless a > fish was terribly messed up when I got him, I very rarely lost one. > As Bill said, he knows Rams and suggests that your water must be > pretty good. I never kept Rams, so I do not know. But I keep and breed > Angels, Discus and guppies and this has worked for me. It also works > for Neons, and other tetras, but I don't try to breed them. > > joe t > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 43708	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 10/8/2009
Subject: Re: Questions about water

Lainey, Are you a member of the BAS? They meet at the Aquarium once a month. http://www.bostonaquariumsociety.org I don't know who all is going to meetings these days, it has been about 13 years since I was to a Boston meeting, but the have (had) some really knowledgeable people there. You may wish to check them out. Where is it that you have such water from a well, certainly not in Boston? \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Lainey Alexander Sent: Thursday, October 08, 2009 11:21 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: Questions about water Thank you, Bill, this is reassuring about the rams. I am encouraged because not only are they doing well, they are growing quite well and developing very strong colors. I got them quite young about four weeks ago. The cories are doing well also, but they are shy and I tend to see them in and among the plant roots rather than out front. They do eat well and charge around when I offer an algae wafer:) The thing I keep worrying about is the quarantine being at pH7.8 which is where it wants to be. The guy at my Boston based LFS scared me by telling me that pH 7.5 was "way too high". I have spoken to lots of people with planted tanks who have convinced me otherwise, but 7.8 seems too high. I am leaving it alone today rather than sticking the CO2 diffuser in there or adding more RO etc. But it does make me nervous. I have ten baby celestial pearl danios in the QT, not big enough to join the main tank, so maybe that's why I'm worried. But I think CPDs like a higher pH? Anyway, I'll know the answers soon enough. Lainey http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com On Oct 8, 2009, at 10:04 AM, bill 1433 wrote: > Hi Lainey > > In your fish list you have Rams and Cory's among the others. The > reason I am pointing this out is because I know for a fact that > Rams are very demanding as to their tanks conditions. They simply > will not tolerate bad ones! > > I mention this in light of a part of a message sent a while ago > from Lenny talking about being content with your "old" or past > conditions. I must tell you that however far off you think they > are, Lenny is right. Whatever your doing, your doing well or right > and I highly suggest you continue with it! Why? > > As I said, Rams are cranky about water conditions. So much so that > I can tell you this, those fish would not be alive now without good > water. I'm from the "old school" starting back in the 70's, and > have returned to the hobby and became active just a bit over a year > ago. I have spent all of this time with, and devoting myself to > Rams. If you have these fish a month or more, and they are healthy, > eating and active, you're doing something very right! Also with > Corys, if they are active and doing well they are a very good > indicator of tank and water conditions over all. If they become > inactive and almost lethargic and not searching for food, you can > almost bet that you have something wrong. Are these fish all in a > 32-gallon tank, I think you mentioned? > > Keep us posted? > > Bill > > --- On Wed, 10/7/09, Lainey Alexander <lainealex@...> wrote: > > > From: Lainey Alexander <lainealex@...> > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: Questions about water > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > Date: Wednesday, October 7, 2009, 9:21 PM > > Hi Lenny - > > > > Thank you for clarifying this about the CO2 and pH. I think > > I did > > post my fish list recently, but here it is again: > > > > 7 rummy nose tetras > > 8 Siamese algae eaters > > 5 cory catfish > > 1 pr blue rams > > 4 otocinclus > > > > I hope to add a school of ten or so celestial pearl danios > > which are > > in the QT, but that will be it. > > > > The main concern I have with my pH is the plants. I have a > > wide > > assortment, and most of them prefer a neutral to slightly > > acid pH. > > Does this mean I would have to lower my tap water for the > > plants to 7 > > pH and then add the co2 and get down to like 6.2? That > > seems too > > difficult and troublesome, which is why I am doing it the > > way I am. > > Basically I throw in one quarter part RO to my tap water to > > make the > > plants happier, and then run the co2 until the co2 meter > > tells me > > there is a plant-happy amount of co2 in the water. At this > > point, my > > pH is about neutral. > > > > When I go to set up the quarantine, with no co2, the pH is > > 7.9. So I > > will be placing the QT fish into the main tank and was > > worried that > > this would be too drastic a change for them since the co2 > > in the main > > tank brings the pH down to 7. But it sounds like I should > > not worry > > about the change there, and just use my regular tank water > > for the QT > > (with no co2) and the QT fish should be able to adjust to > > the main > > tank with the co2. > > > > Lainey > > http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com > > > > On Oct 7, 2009, at 8:31 PM, Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > > > > > Using CO2 to change the pH is not really necessary and > > is a waste > > > of CO2. > > > Using CO2 to raise the CO2 levels for promoting plant > > growth is > > > good. You > > > really should allow your fish to acclimate to your > > filtered tap > > > water and go > > > from there. As I stated earlier in this thread, your > > pH and > > > hardness levels > > > are NOT that high and your tank's pH and hardness will > > be even > > > lower than > > > your tap levels in an established tank... unless you > > are keeping > > > fish that > > > absolutely have to have a very low pH. Several of us > > have asked > > > what fish > > > you have or plan to have but I haven't seen this > > information. > > > > > > Yes, while CO2 will alter the pH, this type of change > > does not > > > affect fish > > > for some reason so changing it, thinking you will be > > making things > > > better > > > for the fish is simply not effective. The GH and KH > > remain the same. > > > > > > This has been discussed repeatedly in planted tank > > forums. When CO2 > > > is not > > > used and there is a drastic pH change/crash, usually > > do to poor water > > > quality, it is usually a result of a low KH level and > > sometimes the > > > GH level > > > as well. When the KH level gets too low, it can and > > usually will > > > result in > > > a pH crash, which can cause pH shock to fish, which is > > sometimes > > > fatal. > > > BUT... lowering the pH, even drastically, using CO2 > > does NOT cause > > > health > > > effects to fish... because the GH and KH levels should > > stay the > > > same so > > > there is no corresponding osmoregulatory shock to the > > fish. > > > > > > In fact, in planted tanks (or ponds) without CO2 > > injection, the pH > > > level > > > will often change by more than a full point during a > > 24 hour period > > > because, > > > during the day, when the plants are using up available > > CO2 during > > > photosynthesis. This raises the pH during the day. > > Then at night, some > > > plants actually reverse the process, taking in O2 and > > putting out > > > CO2, which > > > results in a much lower pH at night... BUT once again, > > this change > > > in pH as > > > a result in CO2 levels DOES NOT seem to affect fish > > like a pH crash > > > that is > > > not a result of CO2 injection. > > > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > > > (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are > > listed on the > > > right > > > side, alphabetically under Labels and also under > > Archives by Year, > > > Month) > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > > > > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] > > On > > > Behalf Of Lainey Alexander > > > Sent: Wednesday, October 07, 2009 5:27 PM > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: Questions about water > > > > > > I just want to thank everyone for feedback on my water > > issues. I am > > > busy > > > trying to troubleshoot this quarantine set up so not > > writing back, > > > but very > > > much appreciate your help. So far I haven't gotten too > > far, all I > > > have come > > > up with is to transfer my CO2 back and forth from the > > main tank to the > > > quarantine - tedious but it does maintain the pH for > > both tanks. As > > > long as > > > I don't leave the house! > > > > > > I have done many of the 48 hour tests... > > > > > > Going to try bottled water from the store tonight for > > the QT wish > > > me luck! > > > > > > Lainey > > > http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com > > > > > > On Oct 7, 2009, at 3:48 PM, bill 1433 wrote: > > > > > > > No worries Robb! > > > > > > > > It's just that I have had recent experience with > > my own well water. > > > > This water had 0 hardness and a pH of 5.5 to 5.8! > > Since all LPS were > > > > in the 7.0 ranges, with a hardness level of 5, I > > think you can > > > readily > > > > see the problem. But changing as I did, in the > > end I decided to > > > bring > > > > MY tanks more into line with the local shops. The > > reason again, > > > time. > > > > To get the fish into my well water safely took > > well over a month. > > > This > > > > was added work and expense in keeping another > > tank up and running > > > for > > > > no other reason other than to acclimate new > > fish. > > > > > > > > Working very closely with a guy who has since > > become a good > > > friend and > > > > a fellow "old-timer" like myself, I slowly > > brought my tanks into a > > > > more neutral state and with some hardness value. > > But in saying > > > all of > > > > that I should also mention that these new or > > controlled water > > > > parameters are all controlled by regular water > > changes and standard > > > > tank maintenance, without which the fish would > > not survive. > > > > > > > > Bill > > > > > > > > --- On Wed, 10/7/09, robbrouse <robbrouse@...> > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > From: robbrouse <robbrouse@...> > > > > > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Questions about > > water > > > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > > > > Date: Wednesday, October 7, 2009, 3:07 PM > > Bill, hard a brain > > > cramp I > > > > > guess. You are more than right you want to > > take a full month or so > > > > > to convert it over not 10 days. Guess I > > should either pay less > > > > > attention to work or more to the post I > > enter (LOL). Yes do the > > > 5 to > > > > > 10% every 4 days maybe 5. Again sorry for > > this information been to > > > > > busy at work to give advice sorry about > > that. > > > > > > > > > > Robb > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, > > > > > bill 1433 <warrenprint@...> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > Hi Rob, > > > > > > > > > > > > I would agree here but save for the > > speed! > > > > > Everything you said but in half. A 5 or 10 % > > water change, or in a > > > > > 10-gallon tank, 1 gallon changed every four > > days, at most. With > > > > > such a wide parameter range as hers, slower > > is definitely better. > > > > > Don't you agree? > > > > > > > > > > > > Bill > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > --- On Wed, 10/7/09, robbrouse > > <robbrouse@...> > > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > From: robbrouse > > <robbrouse@...> > > > > > > > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: > > Questions about water > > > > > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > > > > > > Date: Wednesday, October 7, 2009, > > 1:52 PM Thanks Bill totally > > > > > > > forgot about this. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > How I would start this process > > would be start > > > > > with 5 or 10% > > > > > > > water changed do them one or two > > times a day with > > > > > 10 or 12 > > > > > > > hours in-between if it's 2 times a > > day. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Make sure that the water you are > > converting over > > > > > to is the > > > > > > > same perimeters. Same PH, GH, KH > > and all that. I > > > > > had a buddy > > > > > > > that was using spring water. He > > was using nothing > > > > > but spring > > > > > > > water and was doing this for over > > a year and then > > > > > out of the > > > > > > > blue decided driving 25 miles > > every week was more > > > > > work than > > > > > > > it was worth. So what he did was > > started a 30 day > > > > > conversion > > > > > > > process. Start doing 5% water > > changed twice a > > > > > day. He did > > > > > > > the gravel vacuum and everything > > just took out a > > > > > small > > > > > > > amount of water. He had about a > > total of 200 > > > > > gallons between > > > > > > > several tanks. So we are only > > talking 10 Gallons > > > > > a day > > > > > > > spread out between a few tanks. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I remember him telling me it was a > > log of work > > > > > over that 30 > > > > > > > days, but after all was said and > > done they > > > > > adapted to his > > > > > > > tap water and he told me he lsot 2 > > fish during > > > > > this and has > > > > > > > no way to know if this was do to > > the change or > > > > > just old age > > > > > > > one was a 13 year old gold fish. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > It will be a lot of work, but it > > will be easier > > > > > using > > > > > > > straight tap water and not messing > > with RO. Now > > > > > if you tap > > > > > > > water is so far out there maybe > > you'll want to > > > > > start using > > > > > > > RO, but same thing if the > > perimeters are > > > > > different than your > > > > > > > set up now you'll want to still > > slowly convert > > > > > them over. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Robb From Utah. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, > > bill 1433 <warrenprint@> > > > > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Hi again Lainey, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Rob does mention one very > > important detail > > > > > on your > > > > > > > water. Yes, most of the time, fish > > will adapt > > > > > BUT the > > > > > > > secret is TIME. How long and how > > well you carry > > > > > over any > > > > > > > changes to your fishes' current > > water parameters > > > > > is very > > > > > > > important. > > > > > > > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 43709	From: Lainey Alexander	Date: 10/8/2009
Subject: Re: Questions about water

I am trying to find a more natural, low-tech method for doing a reef tank. Wondering about using refugiums...algae, things like that to achieve a more balanced system without having tons of equipment and/ or chemicals... Lainey http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com On Oct 8, 2009, at 3:16 PM, Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > The comparable > equivalent of a saltwater *planted tank* would be a reef tank. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 43710	From: Lainey Alexander	Date: 10/8/2009
Subject: Re: Questions about water

Yes, the levels don't seem to change over one or two days - nothing seems to budge at all. Lainey http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com On Oct 8, 2009, at 3:21 PM, Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > Did you ever do/start the 48 hour baseline testing that I > recommended? I'd > like to see all of your test results of the same water sample, > right out the > tap, after 24 hours and then after 48 hours, just to be sure. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 43711	From: Lainey Alexander	Date: 10/8/2009
Subject: Re: Questions about water

Oh I will look into this society, thank you. I live in western MA in the Berkshire mountains. Lainey http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com On Oct 8, 2009, at 8:31 PM, Steve Szabo wrote: > Lainey, > > Are you a member of the BAS? They meet at the Aquarium once a month. > http://www.bostonaquariumsociety.org > I don't know who all is going to meetings these days, it has been > about > 13 years since I was to a Boston meeting, but the have (had) some > really > knowledgeable people there. You may wish to check them out. > > Where is it that you have such water from a well, certainly not in > Boston? > > \\Steve// > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] > On Behalf Of Lainey Alexander > Sent: Thursday, October 08, 2009 11:21 AM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: Questions about water > > Thank you, Bill, this is reassuring about the rams. I am encouraged > because not only are they doing well, they are growing quite well and > developing very strong colors. I got them quite young about four > weeks ago. The cories are doing well also, but they are shy and I > tend to see them in and among the plant roots rather than out front. > They do eat well and charge around when I offer an algae wafer:) > > The thing I keep worrying about is the quarantine being at pH7.8 > which is where it wants to be. The guy at my Boston based LFS scared > me by telling me that pH 7.5 was "way too high". I have spoken to > lots of people with planted tanks who have convinced me otherwise, > but 7.8 seems too high. I am leaving it alone today rather than > sticking the CO2 diffuser in there or adding more RO etc. But it does > make me nervous. I have ten baby celestial pearl danios in the QT, > not big enough to join the main tank, so maybe that's why I'm > worried. But I think CPDs like a higher pH? > > Anyway, I'll know the answers soon enough. > > Lainey > http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com > > On Oct 8, 2009, at 10:04 AM, bill 1433 wrote: > > > Hi Lainey > > > > In your fish list you have Rams and Cory's among the others. The > > reason I am pointing this out is because I know for a fact that > > Rams are very demanding as to their tanks conditions. They simply > > will not tolerate bad ones! > > > > I mention this in light of a part of a message sent a while ago > > from Lenny talking about being content with your "old" or past > > conditions. I must tell you that however far off you think they > > are, Lenny is right. Whatever your doing, your doing well or right > > and I highly suggest you continue with it! Why? > > > > As I said, Rams are cranky about water conditions. So much so that > > I can tell you this, those fish would not be alive now without good > > water. I'm from the "old school" starting back in the 70's, and > > have returned to the hobby and became active just a bit over a year > > ago. I have spent all of this time with, and devoting myself to > > Rams. If you have these fish a month or more, and they are healthy, > > eating and active, you're doing something very right! Also with > > Corys, if they are active and doing well they are a very good > > indicator of tank and water conditions over all. If they become > > inactive and almost lethargic and not searching for food, you can > > almost bet that you have something wrong. Are these fish all in a > > 32-gallon tank, I think you mentioned? > > > > Keep us posted? > > > > Bill > > > > --- On Wed, 10/7/09, Lainey Alexander <lainealex@...> > wrote: > > > > > From: Lainey Alexander <lainealex@...> > > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: Questions about water > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > > Date: Wednesday, October 7, 2009, 9:21 PM > > > Hi Lenny - > > > > > > Thank you for clarifying this about the CO2 and pH. I think > > > I did > > > post my fish list recently, but here it is again: > > > > > > 7 rummy nose tetras > > > 8 Siamese algae eaters > > > 5 cory catfish > > > 1 pr blue rams > > > 4 otocinclus > > > > > > I hope to add a school of ten or so celestial pearl danios > > > which are > > > in the QT, but that will be it. > > > > > > The main concern I have with my pH is the plants. I have a > > > wide > > > assortment, and most of them prefer a neutral to slightly > > > acid pH. > > > Does this mean I would have to lower my tap water for the > > > plants to 7 > > > pH and then add the co2 and get down to like 6.2? That > > > seems too > > > difficult and troublesome, which is why I am doing it the > > > way I am. > > > Basically I throw in one quarter part RO to my tap water to > > > make the > > > plants happier, and then run the co2 until the co2 meter > > > tells me > > > there is a plant-happy amount of co2 in the water. At this > > > point, my > > > pH is about neutral. > > > > > > When I go to set up the quarantine, with no co2, the pH is > > > 7.9. So I > > > will be placing the QT fish into the main tank and was > > > worried that > > > this would be too drastic a change for them since the co2 > > > in the main > > > tank brings the pH down to 7. But it sounds like I should > > > not worry > > > about the change there, and just use my regular tank water > > > for the QT > > > (with no co2) and the QT fish should be able to adjust to > > > the main > > > tank with the co2. > > > > > > Lainey > > > http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com > > > > > > On Oct 7, 2009, at 8:31 PM, Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > > > > > > > Using CO2 to change the pH is not really necessary and > > > is a waste > > > > of CO2. > > > > Using CO2 to raise the CO2 levels for promoting plant > > > growth is > > > > good. You > > > > really should allow your fish to acclimate to your > > > filtered tap > > > > water and go > > > > from there. As I stated earlier in this thread, your > > > pH and > > > > hardness levels > > > > are NOT that high and your tank's pH and hardness will > > > be even > > > > lower than > > > > your tap levels in an established tank... unless you > > > are keeping > > > > fish that > > > > absolutely have to have a very low pH. Several of us > > > have asked > > > > what fish > > > > you have or plan to have but I haven't seen this > > > information. > > > > > > > > Yes, while CO2 will alter the pH, this type of change > > > does not > > > > affect fish > > > > for some reason so changing it, thinking you will be > > > making things > > > > better > > > > for the fish is simply not effective. The GH and KH > > > remain the same. > > > > > > > > This has been discussed repeatedly in planted tank > > > forums. When CO2 > > > > is not > > > > used and there is a drastic pH change/crash, usually > > > do to poor water > > > > quality, it is usually a result of a low KH level and > > > sometimes the > > > > GH level > > > > as well. When the KH level gets too low, it can and > > > usually will > > > > result in > > > > a pH crash, which can cause pH shock to fish, which is > > > sometimes > > > > fatal. > > > > BUT... lowering the pH, even drastically, using CO2 > > > does NOT cause > > > > health > > > > effects to fish... because the GH and KH levels should > > > stay the > > > > same so > > > > there is no corresponding osmoregulatory shock to the > > > fish. > > > > > > > > In fact, in planted tanks (or ponds) without CO2 > > > injection, the pH > > > > level > > > > will often change by more than a full point during a > > > 24 hour period > > > > because, > > > > during the day, when the plants are using up available > > > CO2 during > > > > photosynthesis. This raises the pH during the day. > > > Then at night, some > > > > plants actually reverse the process, taking in O2 and > > > putting out > > > > CO2, which > > > > results in a much lower pH at night... BUT once again, > > > this change > > > > in pH as > > > > a result in CO2 levels DOES NOT seem to affect fish > > > like a pH crash > > > > that is > > > > not a result of CO2 injection. > > > > > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > > > > (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are > > > listed on the > > > > right > > > > side, alphabetically under Labels and also under > > > Archives by Year, > > > > Month) > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > > > > > > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] > > > On > > > > Behalf Of Lainey Alexander > > > > Sent: Wednesday, October 07, 2009 5:27 PM > > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: Questions about water > > > > > > > > I just want to thank everyone for feedback on my water > > > issues. I am > > > > busy > > > > trying to troubleshoot this quarantine set up so not > > > writing back, > > > > but very > > > > much appreciate your help. So far I haven't gotten too > > > far, all I > > > > have come > > > > up with is to transfer my CO2 back and forth from the > > > main tank to the > > > > quarantine - tedious but it does maintain the pH for > > > both tanks. As > > > > long as > > > > I don't leave the house! > > > > > > > > I have done many of the 48 hour tests... > > > > > > > > Going to try bottled water from the store tonight for > > > the QT wish > > > > me luck! > > > > > > > > Lainey > > > > http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com > > > > > > > > On Oct 7, 2009, at 3:48 PM, bill 1433 wrote: > > > > > > > > > No worries Robb! > > > > > > > > > > It's just that I have had recent experience with > > > my own well water. > > > > > This water had 0 hardness and a pH of 5.5 to 5.8! > > > Since all LPS were > > > > > in the 7.0 ranges, with a hardness level of 5, I > > > think you can > > > > readily > > > > > see the problem. But changing as I did, in the > > > end I decided to > > > > bring > > > > > MY tanks more into line with the local shops. The > > > reason again, > > > > time. > > > > > To get the fish into my well water safely took > > > well over a month. > > > > This > > > > > was added work and expense in keeping another > > > tank up and running > > > > for > > > > > no other reason other than to acclimate new > > > fish. > > > > > > > > > > Working very closely with a guy who has since > > > become a good > > > > friend and > > > > > a fellow "old-timer" like myself, I slowly > > > brought my tanks into a > > > > > more neutral state and with some hardness value. > > > But in saying > > > > all of > > > > > that I should also mention that these new or > > > controlled water > > > > > parameters are all controlled by regular water > > > changes and standard > > > > > tank maintenance, without which the fish would > > > not survive. > > > > > > > > > > Bill > > > > > > > > > > --- On Wed, 10/7/09, robbrouse <robbrouse@...> > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > From: robbrouse <robbrouse@...> > > > > > > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Questions about > > > water > > > > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > > > > > Date: Wednesday, October 7, 2009, 3:07 PM > > > Bill, hard a brain > > > > cramp I > > > > > > guess. You are more than right you want to > > > take a full month or so > > > > > > to convert it over not 10 days. Guess I > > > should either pay less > > > > > > attention to work or more to the post I > > > enter (LOL). Yes do the > > > > 5 to > > > > > > 10% every 4 days maybe 5. Again sorry for > > > this information been to > > > > > > busy at work to give advice sorry about > > > that. > > > > > > > > > > > > Robb > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, > > > > > > bill 1433 <warrenprint@...> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Hi Rob, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I would agree here but save for the > > > speed! > > > > > > Everything you said but in half. A 5 or 10 % > > > water change, or in a > > > > > > 10-gallon tank, 1 gallon changed every four > > > days, at most. With > > > > > > such a wide parameter range as hers, slower > > > is definitely better. > > > > > > Don't you agree? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Bill > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > --- On Wed, 10/7/09, robbrouse > > > <robbrouse@...> > > > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > From: robbrouse > > > <robbrouse@...> > > > > > > > > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: > > > Questions about water > > > > > > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > > > > > > > Date: Wednesday, October 7, 2009, > > > 1:52 PM Thanks Bill totally > > > > > > > > forgot about this. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > How I would start this process > > > would be start > > > > > > with 5 or 10% > > > > > > > > water changed do them one or two > > > times a day with > > > > > > 10 or 12 > > > > > > > > hours in-between if it's 2 times a > > > day. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Make sure that the water you are > > > converting over > > > > > > to is the > > > > > > > > same perimeters. Same PH, GH, KH > > > and all that. I > > > > > > had a buddy > > > > > > > > that was using spring water. He > > > was using nothing > > > > > > but spring > > > > > > > > water and was doing this for over > > > a year and then > > > > > > out of the > > > > > > > > blue decided driving 25 miles > > > every week was more > > > > > > work than > > > > > > > > it was worth. So what he did was > > > started a 30 day > > > > > > conversion > > > > > > > > process. Start doing 5% water > > > changed twice a > > > > > > day. He did > > > > > > > > the gravel vacuum and everything > > > just took out a > > > > > > small > > > > > > > > amount of water. He had about a > > > total of 200 > > > > > > gallons between > > > > > > > > several tanks. So we are only > > > talking 10 Gallons > > > > > > a day > > > > > > > > spread out between a few tanks. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I remember him telling me it was a > > > log of work > > > > > > over that 30 > > > > > > > > days, but after all was said and > > > done they > > > > > > adapted to his > > > > > > > > tap water and he told me he lsot 2 > > > fish during > > > > > > this and has > > > > > > > > no way to know if this was do to > > > the change or > > > > > > just old age > > > > > > > > one was a 13 year old gold fish. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > It will be a lot of work, but it > > > will be easier > > > > > > using > > > > > > > > straight tap water and not messing > > > with RO. Now > > > > > > if you tap > > > > > > > > water is so far out there maybe > > > you'll want to > > > > > > start using > > > > > > > > RO, but same thing if the > > > perimeters are > > > > > > different than your > > > > > > > > set up now you'll want to still > > > slowly convert > > > > > > them over. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Robb From Utah. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, > > > bill 1433 <warrenprint@> > > > > > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Hi again Lainey, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Rob does mention one very > > > important detail > > > > > > on your > > > > > > > > water. Yes, most of the time, fish > > > will adapt > > > > > > BUT the > > > > > > > > secret is TIME. How long and how > > > well you carry > > > > > > over any > > > > > > > > changes to your fishes' current > > > water parameters > > > > > > is very > > > > > > > > important. > > > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 43712	From: Lainey Alexander	Date: 10/8/2009
Subject: Re: Questions about water

Thanks, Lenny - I should have used the AKA galaxy rasbora to avoid the confusion but I was trying to use the proper name rather than the old name. I did take a look at that UK article before I got them and I think I have it covered for them. The only issue is that I have pretty young fish, about half adult size which means you almost need a magnifier to see them. I got them some Hikari baby food today since they couldn't eat crushed flakes or even brine shrimp. But they seem OK so far in my high pH water... Lainey http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com On Oct 8, 2009, at 3:10 PM, Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > You need to look at these profiles and info and see what you have. > I wasn't > familiar with the *celestial* pearl danio so I did some Googling. > At first > I thought it might be a variant of the regular pearl danio, > Brachydanio > albolineatus, http://fish.mongabay.com/species/ > Brachydanio_albolineatus.html > BUT another site says that "Celestial Pearl Danio" is a *new* > common name > for the Galaxy Rasbora, Celestichthys Margaritatus (Previously > Microrasboras > sp. Galaxy), Common Name: Celestial Pearl Danio, Galaxy Rasboras, > Fireworks > Rasboras, http://www.aquaticcommunity.com/barbs/ > celestialpearldanio.php so > PLEASE check out the photos. > > Well, read down further as I think I've solved the problem. The > AquaticCommunity profile needs to be updated since the Galaxy > Rasbora has > been reclassified into the Danio family and now called the > Celestial Pearl > Danio. > > Here is Fishbase.org's profile, usually the most reliable when > there are > conflicting profiles, on the Pearl Danio, Danio albolineatus, and the > Celestial Pearl Danio, Danio margaritatus and since the > "margaritatus" is > the same species name as the species name in the above Galaxy Rasbora > profile "C. margaritatus", this probably confirms the > reclassification into > the Danio genus since the Fishbase profile also lists the common > name Galaxy > Rasbora for the Celestial Pearl Danio. > > http://fishbase.org/Summary/SpeciesSummary.php?id=10824 > > http://fishbase.org/Summary/SpeciesSummary.php?id=63298 (shows the > classification in 2007) > > A further search of Galaxy Rasbora on Fishbase shows the same > profile as the > Celestial Pearl Danio above so I think that finalizes this issue... > for > now.. until the next taxonomic debate. LOL > > Here's more reading about the reclassification that happened in 2008. > > http://www.practicalfishkeeping.co.uk/pfk/pages/item.php?news=1538 > > AND A VERY GOOD PROFILE/CARE SHEET ON THEM... PFK is a very > trustworthy site > for information. > > http://www.practicalfishkeeping.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?t=19713 > > Here's a snip about water parameters... > > Water: In the wild this fish inhabits small and clear shallow > ponds, at most > 30 cm deep and maintained by seepage or springs. The temperature in > it�s > natural range varying between 22-24�C. They have proven to be quite > adaptable to varying conditions in the aquarium and will happily > live and > breed in water varying in PH from 6.5 to 7.5 although extremes of > hardness > should be avoided. A temperature range of 22-25�C is ideal. > > As you see, they do *best* and even breed in pH from 6.5 to 7.5 but > your 7.7 > to 7.9 pH is not that much out of range, especially since you got > them from > a 7.4 pH source, so you should be fine as long as you acclimate > them slowly. > I wish the above PFK article would have elaborated on what they > mean by > "extremes of hardness" but I would take that to be MUCH harder than > the > water you have. 5 dGH is NOT that hard. My water runs around 7-8 > dGH. I > would say "extremes of hardness" would be above 10 dGH.. or even > higher. > > Last but not least, these are cool water fish, like most other > Danio's, so > if you have your tank set at tropical temps, and you want to keep > these in > the same tank as your other fish, you might want to slowly start > lowering > the tank's temp to the lower end of the tropical scale that is > recommended > for your other fish. > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the > right > side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, > Month) > > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On > Behalf Of Lainey Alexander > Sent: Thursday, October 08, 2009 10:21 AM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: Questions about water > > Thank you, Bill, this is reassuring about the rams. I am encouraged > because > not only are they doing well, they are growing quite well and > developing > very strong colors. I got them quite young about four weeks ago. > The cories > are doing well also, but they are shy and I tend to see them in and > among > the plant roots rather than out front. > They do eat well and charge around when I offer an algae wafer:) > > The thing I keep worrying about is the quarantine being at pH7.8 > which is > where it wants to be. The guy at my Boston based LFS scared me by > telling me > that pH 7.5 was "way too high". I have spoken to lots of people > with planted > tanks who have convinced me otherwise, but 7.8 seems too high. I am > leaving > it alone today rather than sticking the CO2 diffuser in there or > adding more > RO etc. But it does make me nervous. I have ten baby celestial > pearl danios > in the QT, not big enough to join the main tank, so maybe that's > why I'm > worried. But I think CPDs like a higher pH? > > Anyway, I'll know the answers soon enough. > > Lainey > http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com > > On Oct 8, 2009, at 10:04 AM, bill 1433 wrote: > > > Hi Lainey > > > > In your fish list you have Rams and Cory's among the others. The > > reason I am pointing this out is because I know for a fact that Rams > > are very demanding as to their tanks conditions. They simply will > not > > tolerate bad ones! > > > > I mention this in light of a part of a message sent a while ago from > > Lenny talking about being content with your "old" or past > conditions. > > I must tell you that however far off you think they are, Lenny is > > right. Whatever your doing, your doing well or right and I highly > > suggest you continue with it! Why? > > > > As I said, Rams are cranky about water conditions. So much so that I > > can tell you this, those fish would not be alive now without good > > water. I'm from the "old school" starting back in the 70's, and have > > returned to the hobby and became active just a bit over a year > ago. I > > have spent all of this time with, and devoting myself to Rams. If > you > > have these fish a month or more, and they are healthy, eating and > > active, you're doing something very right! Also with Corys, if they > > are active and doing well they are a very good indicator of tank and > > water conditions over all. If they become inactive and almost > > lethargic and not searching for food, you can almost bet that you > have > > something wrong. Are these fish all in a 32-gallon tank, I think you > > mentioned? > > > > Keep us posted? > > > > Bill > > > > --- On Wed, 10/7/09, Lainey Alexander <lainealex@...> > wrote: > > > > > From: Lainey Alexander <lainealex@...> > > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: Questions about water > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > > Date: Wednesday, October 7, 2009, 9:21 PM Hi Lenny - > > > > > > Thank you for clarifying this about the CO2 and pH. I think I did > > > post my fish list recently, but here it is again: > > > > > > 7 rummy nose tetras > > > 8 Siamese algae eaters > > > 5 cory catfish > > > 1 pr blue rams > > > 4 otocinclus > > > > > > I hope to add a school of ten or so celestial pearl danios > which are > > > in the QT, but that will be it. > > > > > > The main concern I have with my pH is the plants. I have a wide > > > assortment, and most of them prefer a neutral to slightly acid pH. > > > Does this mean I would have to lower my tap water for the > plants to > > > 7 pH and then add the co2 and get down to like 6.2? That seems too > > > difficult and troublesome, which is why I am doing it the way I > am. > > > Basically I throw in one quarter part RO to my tap water to > make the > > > plants happier, and then run the co2 until the co2 meter tells me > > > there is a plant-happy amount of co2 in the water. At this > point, my > > > pH is about neutral. > > > > > > When I go to set up the quarantine, with no co2, the pH is 7.9. > So I > > > will be placing the QT fish into the main tank and was worried > that > > > this would be too drastic a change for them since the co2 in the > > > main tank brings the pH down to 7. But it sounds like I should not > > > worry about the change there, and just use my regular tank > water for > > > the QT (with no co2) and the QT fish should be able to adjust > to the > > > main tank with the co2. > > > > > > Lainey > > > http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com > > > > > > On Oct 7, 2009, at 8:31 PM, Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > > > > > > > Using CO2 to change the pH is not really necessary and > > > is a waste > > > > of CO2. > > > > Using CO2 to raise the CO2 levels for promoting plant > > > growth is > > > > good. You > > > > really should allow your fish to acclimate to your > > > filtered tap > > > > water and go > > > > from there. As I stated earlier in this thread, your > > > pH and > > > > hardness levels > > > > are NOT that high and your tank's pH and hardness will > > > be even > > > > lower than > > > > your tap levels in an established tank... unless you > > > are keeping > > > > fish that > > > > absolutely have to have a very low pH. Several of us > > > have asked > > > > what fish > > > > you have or plan to have but I haven't seen this > > > information. > > > > > > > > Yes, while CO2 will alter the pH, this type of change > > > does not > > > > affect fish > > > > for some reason so changing it, thinking you will be > > > making things > > > > better > > > > for the fish is simply not effective. The GH and KH > > > remain the same. > > > > > > > > This has been discussed repeatedly in planted tank > > > forums. When CO2 > > > > is not > > > > used and there is a drastic pH change/crash, usually > > > do to poor water > > > > quality, it is usually a result of a low KH level and > > > sometimes the > > > > GH level > > > > as well. When the KH level gets too low, it can and > > > usually will > > > > result in > > > > a pH crash, which can cause pH shock to fish, which is > > > sometimes > > > > fatal. > > > > BUT... lowering the pH, even drastically, using CO2 > > > does NOT cause > > > > health > > > > effects to fish... because the GH and KH levels should > > > stay the > > > > same so > > > > there is no corresponding osmoregulatory shock to the > > > fish. > > > > > > > > In fact, in planted tanks (or ponds) without CO2 > > > injection, the pH > > > > level > > > > will often change by more than a full point during a > > > 24 hour period > > > > because, > > > > during the day, when the plants are using up available > > > CO2 during > > > > photosynthesis. This raises the pH during the day. > > > Then at night, some > > > > plants actually reverse the process, taking in O2 and > > > putting out > > > > CO2, which > > > > results in a much lower pH at night... BUT once again, > > > this change > > > > in pH as > > > > a result in CO2 levels DOES NOT seem to affect fish > > > like a pH crash > > > > that is > > > > not a result of CO2 injection. > > > > > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles > > > > referenced in above reply are > > > listed on the > > > > right > > > > side, alphabetically under Labels and also under > > > Archives by Year, > > > > Month) > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > > > > > > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] > > > On > > > > Behalf Of Lainey Alexander > > > > Sent: Wednesday, October 07, 2009 5:27 PM > > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: Questions about water > > > > > > > > I just want to thank everyone for feedback on my water > > > issues. I am > > > > busy > > > > trying to troubleshoot this quarantine set up so not > > > writing back, > > > > but very > > > > much appreciate your help. So far I haven't gotten too > > > far, all I > > > > have come > > > > up with is to transfer my CO2 back and forth from the > > > main tank to the > > > > quarantine - tedious but it does maintain the pH for > > > both tanks. As > > > > long as > > > > I don't leave the house! > > > > > > > > I have done many of the 48 hour tests... > > > > > > > > Going to try bottled water from the store tonight for > > > the QT wish > > > > me luck! > > > > > > > > Lainey > > > > http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com > > > > > > > > On Oct 7, 2009, at 3:48 PM, bill 1433 wrote: > > > > > > > > > No worries Robb! > > > > > > > > > > It's just that I have had recent experience with > > > my own well water. > > > > > This water had 0 hardness and a pH of 5.5 to 5.8! > > > Since all LPS were > > > > > in the 7.0 ranges, with a hardness level of 5, I > > > think you can > > > > readily > > > > > see the problem. But changing as I did, in the > > > end I decided to > > > > bring > > > > > MY tanks more into line with the local shops. The > > > reason again, > > > > time. > > > > > To get the fish into my well water safely took > > > well over a month. > > > > This > > > > > was added work and expense in keeping another > > > tank up and running > > > > for > > > > > no other reason other than to acclimate new > > > fish. > > > > > > > > > > Working very closely with a guy who has since > > > become a good > > > > friend and > > > > > a fellow "old-timer" like myself, I slowly > > > brought my tanks into a > > > > > more neutral state and with some hardness value. > > > But in saying > > > > all of > > > > > that I should also mention that these new or > > > controlled water > > > > > parameters are all controlled by regular water > > > changes and standard > > > > > tank maintenance, without which the fish would > > > not survive. > > > > > > > > > > Bill > > > > > > > > > > --- On Wed, 10/7/09, robbrouse <robbrouse@...> > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > From: robbrouse <robbrouse@...> > > > > > > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Questions about > > > water > > > > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > > > > > Date: Wednesday, October 7, 2009, 3:07 PM > > > Bill, hard a brain > > > > cramp I > > > > > > guess. You are more than right you want to > > > take a full month or so > > > > > > to convert it over not 10 days. Guess I > > > should either pay less > > > > > > attention to work or more to the post I > > > enter (LOL). Yes do the > > > > 5 to > > > > > > 10% every 4 days maybe 5. Again sorry for > > > this information been to > > > > > > busy at work to give advice sorry about > > > that. > > > > > > > > > > > > Robb > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, bill 1433 > > > > > > <warrenprint@...> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Hi Rob, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I would agree here but save for the > > > speed! > > > > > > Everything you said but in half. A 5 or 10 % > > > water change, or in a > > > > > > 10-gallon tank, 1 gallon changed every four > > > days, at most. With > > > > > > such a wide parameter range as hers, slower > > > is definitely better. > > > > > > Don't you agree? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Bill > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > --- On Wed, 10/7/09, robbrouse > > > <robbrouse@...> > > > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > From: robbrouse > > > <robbrouse@...> > > > > > > > > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: > > > Questions about water > > > > > > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > > > > > > > Date: Wednesday, October 7, 2009, > > > 1:52 PM Thanks Bill totally > > > > > > > > forgot about this. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > How I would start this process > > > would be start > > > > > > with 5 or 10% > > > > > > > > water changed do them one or two > > > times a day with > > > > > > 10 or 12 > > > > > > > > hours in-between if it's 2 times a > > > day. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Make sure that the water you are > > > converting over > > > > > > to is the > > > > > > > > same perimeters. Same PH, GH, KH > > > and all that. I > > > > > > had a buddy > > > > > > > > that was using spring water. He > > > was using nothing > > > > > > but spring > > > > > > > > water and was doing this for over > > > a year and then > > > > > > out of the > > > > > > > > blue decided driving 25 miles > > > every week was more > > > > > > work than > > > > > > > > it was worth. So what he did was > > > started a 30 day > > > > > > conversion > > > > > > > > process. Start doing 5% water > > > changed twice a > > > > > > day. He did > > > > > > > > the gravel vacuum and everything > > > just took out a > > > > > > small > > > > > > > > amount of water. He had about a > > > total of 200 > > > > > > gallons between > > > > > > > > several tanks. So we are only > > > talking 10 Gallons > > > > > > a day > > > > > > > > spread out between a few tanks. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I remember him telling me it was a > > > log of work > > > > > > over that 30 > > > > > > > > days, but after all was said and > > > done they > > > > > > adapted to his > > > > > > > > tap water and he told me he lsot 2 > > > fish during > > > > > > this and has > > > > > > > > no way to know if this was do to > > > the change or > > > > > > just old age > > > > > > > > one was a 13 year old gold fish. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > It will be a lot of work, but it > > > will be easier > > > > > > using > > > > > > > > straight tap water and not messing > > > with RO. Now > > > > > > if you tap > > > > > > > > water is so far out there maybe > > > you'll want to > > > > > > start using > > > > > > > > RO, but same thing if the > > > perimeters are > > > > > > different than your > > > > > > > > set up now you'll want to still > > > slowly convert > > > > > > them over. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Robb From Utah. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, > > > bill 1433 <warrenprint@> > > > > > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Hi again Lainey, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Rob does mention one very > > > important detail > > > > > > on your > > > > > > > > water. Yes, most of the time, fish > > > will adapt > > > > > > BUT the > > > > > > > > secret is TIME. How long and how > > > well you carry > > > > > > over any > > > > > > > > changes to your fishes' current > > > water parameters > > > > > > is very > > > > > > > > important. > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 43713	From: Deenerz@aol.com	Date: 10/8/2009
Subject: Re: Questions about water

Hi Lainey, I picked up a trio of them at my club's auction a few months ago. Mine are also about half size and spawned much to my great surprise. I have been feeding mine new life spectrum cichlid pellets that I grind to a powder in a mortar and pestle. -Mike -----Original Message----- From: Lainey Alexander <lainealex@...> To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Thu, Oct 8, 2009 7:29 pm Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: Questions about water Thanks, Lenny - I should have used the AKA galaxy rasbora to avoid the confusion but I was trying to use the proper name rather than the old name. I did take a look at that UK article before I got them and I think I have it covered for them. The only issue is that I have pretty young fish, about half adult size which means you almost need a magnifier to see them. I got them some Hikari baby food today since they couldn't eat crushed flakes or even brine shrimp. But they seem OK so far in my high pH water... Lainey http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com On Oct 8, 2009, at 3:10 PM, Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > You need to look at these profiles and info and see what you have. > I wasn't > familiar with the *celestial* pearl danio so I did some Googling. > At first > I thought it might be a variant of the regular pearl danio, > Brachydanio > albolineatus, http://fish.mongabay.com/species/ > Brachydanio_albolineatus.html > BUT another site says that "Celestial Pearl Danio" is a *new* > common name > for the Galaxy Rasbora, Celestichthys Margaritatus (Previously > Microrasboras > sp. Galaxy), Common Name: Celestial Pearl Danio, Galaxy Rasboras, > Fireworks > Rasboras, http://www.aquaticcommunity.com/barbs/ > celestialpearldanio.php so > PLEASE check out the photos. > > Well, read down further as I think I've solved the problem. The > AquaticCommunity profile needs to be updated since the Galaxy > Rasbora has > been reclassified into the Danio family and now called the > Celestial Pearl > Danio. > > Here is Fishbase.org's profile, usually the most reliable when > there are > conflicting profiles, on the Pearl Danio, Danio albolineatus, and the > Celestial Pearl Danio, Danio margaritatus and since the > "margaritatus" is > the same species name as the species name in the above Galaxy Rasbora > profile "C. margaritatus", this probably confirms the > reclassification into > the Danio genus since the Fishbase profile also lists the common > name Galaxy > Rasbora for the Celestial Pearl Danio. > > http://fishbase.org/Summary/SpeciesSummary.php?id=10824 > > http://fishbase.org/Summary/SpeciesSummary.php?id=63298 (shows the > classification in 2007) > > A further search of Galaxy Rasbora on Fishbase shows the same > profile as the > Celestial Pearl Danio above so I think that finalizes this issue... > for > now.. until the next taxonomic debate. LOL > > Here's more r eading about the reclassification that happened in 2008. > > http://www.practicalfishkeeping.co.uk/pfk/pages/item.php?news=1538 > > AND A VERY GOOD PROFILE/CARE SHEET ON THEM... PFK is a very > trustworthy site > for information. > > http://www.practicalfishkeeping.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?t=19713 > > Here's a snip about water parameters... > > Water: In the wild this fish inhabits small and clear shallow > ponds, at most > 30 cm deep and maintained by seepage or springs. The temperature in > it’s > natural range varying between 22-24°C. They have proven to be quite > adaptable to varying conditions in the aquarium and will happily > live and > breed in water varying in PH from 6.5 to 7.5 although extremes of > hardness > should be avoided. A temperature range of 22-25°C is ideal. > > As you see, they do *best* and even breed in pH from 6.5 to 7.5 but > your 7.7 > to 7.9 pH is not that much out of range, especially since you got > them from > a 7.4 pH source, so you should be fine as long as you acclimate > them slowly. > I wish the above PFK article would have elaborated on what they > mean by > "extremes of hardness" but I would take that to be MUCH harder than > the > water you have. 5 dGH is NOT that hard. My water runs around 7-8 > dGH. I > would say "extremes of hardness" would be above 10 dGH.. or even > higher. > > Last but not least, these are cool water fish, like most other > Danio's, so > if you have your tank set at tropical temps, and you want to keep > these in > the same tank as your other fish, you might want to slowly start > lowering > the tank's temp to the lower end of the tropical scale that is > recommended > for your other fish. > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the > right > side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, > Month) > > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On > Behalf Of Lainey Alexander > Sent: Thursday, October 08, 2009 10:21 AM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: Questions about water > > Thank you, Bill, this is reassuring about the rams. I am encouraged > because > not only are they doing well, they are growing quite well and > developing > very strong colors. I got them quite young about four weeks ago. > The cories > are doing well also, but they are shy and I tend to see them in and > among > the plant roots rather than out front. > They do eat well and charge around when I offer an algae wafer:) > > The thing I keep worrying about is the quarantine being at pH7.8 > which is > where it wants to be. The guy at my Boston based LFS scared me by > telling me > that pH 7.5 was "way too=2 0high". I have spoken to lots of people > with planted > tanks who have convinced me otherwise, but 7.8 seems too high. I am > leaving > it alone today rather than sticking the CO2 diffuser in there or > adding more > RO etc. But it does make me nervous. I have ten baby celestial > pearl danios > in the QT, not big enough to join the main tank, so maybe that's > why I'm > worried. But I think CPDs like a higher pH? > > Anyway, I'll know the answers soon enough. > > Lainey > http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com > > On Oct 8, 2009, at 10:04 AM, bill 1433 wrote: > > > Hi Lainey > > > > In your fish list you have Rams and Cory's among the others. The > > reason I am pointing this out is because I know for a fact that Rams > > are very demanding as to their tanks conditions. They simply will > not > > tolerate bad ones! > > > > I mention this in light of a part of a message sent a while ago from > > Lenny talking about being content with your "old" or past > conditions. > > I must tell you that however far off you think they are, Lenny is > > right. Whatever your doing, your doing well or right and I highly > > suggest you continue with it! Why? > > > > As I said, Rams are cranky about water conditions. So much so that I > > can tell you this, those fish would not be alive now without good > > water. I'm from the "old school" starting back in the 70's, and have > > returned to the hobby and became active just a bit over a year > ago. I > > have spent all of this time with, and devoting myself to Rams. If > you > > have these fish a month or more, and they are healthy, eating and > > active, you're doing something very right! Also with Corys, if they > > are active and doing well they are a very good indicator of tank and > > water conditions over all. If they become inactive and almost > > lethargic and not searching for food, you can almost bet that you > have > > something wrong. Are these fish all in a 32-gallon tank, I think you > > mentioned? > > > > Keep us posted? > > > > Bill > > > > --- On Wed, 10/7/09, Lainey Alexander <lainealex@...> > wrote: > > > > > From: Lainey Alexander <lainealex@...> > > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: Questions about water > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > > Date: Wednesday, October 7, 2009, 9:21 PM Hi Lenny - > > > > > > Thank you for clarifying this about the CO2 and pH. I think I did > > > post my fish list recently, but here it is again: > > > > > > 7 rummy nose tetras > > > 8 Siamese algae eaters > > > 5 cory catfish > > > 1 pr blue rams > > > 4 otocinclus > > > > > > I hope to add a school of ten or so celestial pearl danios > which are > > > in the QT, but that will be it. > > > > > >20The main concern I have with my pH is the plants. I have a wide > > > assortment, and most of them prefer a neutral to slightly acid pH. > > > Does this mean I would have to lower my tap water for the > plants to > > > 7 pH and then add the co2 and get down to like 6.2? That seems too > > > difficult and troublesome, which is why I am doing it the way I > am. > > > Basically I throw in one quarter part RO to my tap water to > make the > > > plants happier, and then run the co2 until the co2 meter tells me > > > there is a plant-happy amount of co2 in the water. At this > point, my > > > pH is about neutral. > > > > > > When I go to set up the quarantine, with no co2, the pH is 7.9. > So I > > > will be placing the QT fish into the main tank and was worried > that > > > this would be too drastic a change for them since the co2 in the > > > main tank brings the pH down to 7. But it sounds like I should not > > > worry about the change there, and just use my regular tank > water for > > > the QT (with no co2) and the QT fish should be able to adjust > to the > > > main tank with the co2. > > > > > > Lainey > > > http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com > > > > > > On Oct 7, 2009, at 8:31 PM, Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > > > > > > > Using CO2 to change the pH is not really necessary and > > > is a waste > > > > of CO2. > > > > Using CO2 to raise the CO2 levels for promoting plant > > > growth is > > > > good. You > > > > really should allow your fish to acclimate to your > > > filtered tap > > > > water and go > > > > from there. As I stated earlier in this thread, your > > > pH and > > > > hardness levels > > > > are NOT that high and your tank's pH and hardness will > > > be even > > > > lower than > > > > your tap levels in an established tank... unless you > > > are keeping > > > > fish that > > > > absolutely have to have a very low pH. Several of us > > > have asked > > > > what fish > > > > you have or plan to have but I haven't seen this > > > information. > > > > > > > > Yes, while CO2 will alter the pH, this type of change > > > does not > > > > affect fish > > > > for some reason so changing it, thinking you will be > > > making things > > > > better > > > > for the fish is simply not effective. The GH and KH > > > remain the same. > > > > > > > > This has been discussed repeatedly in planted tank > > > forums. When CO2 > > > > is not > > > > used and there is a drastic pH change/crash, usually > > > do to poor water > > > > quality, it is usually a result of a low KH level and > > > sometimes the > > > > GH level > > > > as well. When the KH level gets too low, it can and > > > usually will > > > > result in > > > > a pH crash, which can cause pH shock to fish, which is > > > sometimes > > > > fatal. > > > > BUT... lowering the pH, even drastically, using CO2 > > > does NOT cause > > > > health > > > > effects to fish... because the GH and KH levels should > > > stay the > > > > same so > > > > there is no corresponding osmoregulatory shock to the > > > fish. > > > > > > > > In fact, in planted tanks (or ponds) without CO2 > > > injection, the pH > > > > level > > > > will often change by more than a full point during a > > > 24 hour period > > > > because, > > > > during the day, when the plants are using up available > > > CO2 during > > > > photosynthesis. This raises the pH during the day. > > > Then at night, some > > > > plants actually reverse the process, taking in O2 and > > > putting out > > > > CO2, which > > > > results in a much lower pH at night... BUT once again, > > > this change > > > > in pH as > > > > a result in CO2 levels DOES NOT seem to affect fish > > > like a pH crash > > > > that is > > > > not a result of CO2 injection. > > > > > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles > > > > referenced in above reply ar e > > > listed on the > > > > right > > > > side, alphabetically under Labels and also under > > > Archives by Year, > > > > Month) > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > > > > > > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] > > > On > > > > Behalf Of Lainey Alexander > > > > Sent: Wednesday, October 07, 2009 5:27 PM > > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: Questions about water > > > > > > > > I just want to thank everyone for feedback on my water > > > issues. I am > > > > busy > > > > trying to troubleshoot this quarantine set up so not > > > writing back, > > > > but very > > > > much appreciate your help. So far I haven't gotten too > > > far, all I > > > > have come > > > > up with is to transfer my CO2 back and forth from the > > > main tank to the > > > > quarantine - tedious but it does maintain the pH for > > > both tanks. As > > > > long as > > > > I don't leave the house! > > > > > > > > I have done many of the 48 hour tests... > > > > > > > > Going to try bottled water from the store tonight for > > > the QT wish > > > > me luck! > > > > > > > > Lainey > > > > http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com > > > > > > > > On Oct 7, 2009, at 3:48 PM, bill 1433 wrote: > > > > >20> > > > No worries Robb! > > > > > > > > > > It's just that I have had recent experience with > > > my own well water. > > > > > This water had 0 hardness and a pH of 5.5 to 5.8! > > > Since all LPS were > > > > > in the 7.0 ranges, with a hardness level of 5, I > > > think you can > > > > readily > > > > > see the problem. But changing as I did, in the > > > end I decided to > > > > bring > > > > > MY tanks more into line with the local shops. The > > > reason again, > > > > time. > > > > > To get the fish into my well water safely took > > > well over a month. > > > > This > > > > > was added work and expense in keeping another > > > tank up and running > > > > for > > > > > no other reason other than to acclimate new > > > fish. > > > > > > > > > > Working very closely with a guy who has since > > > become a good > > > > friend and > > > > > a fellow "old-timer" like myself, I slowly > > > brought my tanks into a > > > > > more neutral state and with some hardness value. > > > But in saying > > > > all of > > > > > that I should also mention that these new or > > > controlled water > > > > > parameters are all controlled by regular water > > > changes and standard > > > > > tank maintenance, without which the fish would > > > not survive. =0 A> > > > > > > > > > Bill > > > > > > > > > > --- On Wed, 10/7/09, robbrouse <robbrouse@...> > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > From: robbrouse <robbrouse@...> > > > > > > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Questions about > > > water > > > > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > > > > > Date: Wednesday, October 7, 2009, 3:07 PM > > > Bill, hard a brain > > > > cramp I > > > > > > guess. You are more than right you want to > > > take a full month or so > > > > > > to convert it over not 10 days. Guess I > > > should either pay less > > > > > > attention to work or more to the post I > > > enter (LOL). Yes do the > > > > 5 to > > > > > > 10% every 4 days maybe 5. Again sorry for > > > this information been to > > > > > > busy at work to give advice sorry about > > > that. > > > > > > > > > > > > Robb > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, bill 1433 > > > > > > <warrenprint@...> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Hi Rob, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I would agree here but save for the > > > speed! > > > > > > Everything you said but in half. A 5 or 10 % > > > water change, or in a > > > > > > 10-gallon tank, 1 gallon changed every four > > > days, at most. With > > > > > > such=2 0a wide parameter range as hers, slower > > > is definitely better. > > > > > > Don't you agree? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Bill > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > --- On Wed, 10/7/09, robbrouse > > > <robbrouse@...> > > > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > From: robbrouse > > > <robbrouse@...> > > > > > > > > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: > > > Questions about water > > > > > > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > > > > > > > Date: Wednesday, October 7, 2009, > > > 1:52 PM Thanks Bill totally > > > > > > > > forgot about this. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > How I would start this process > > > would be start > > > > > > with 5 or 10% > > > > > > > > water changed do them one or two > > > times a day with > > > > > > 10 or 12 > > > > > > > > hours in-between if it's 2 times a > > > day. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Make sure that the water you are > > > converting over > > > > > > to is the > > > > > > > > same perimeters. Same PH, GH, KH > > > and all that. I > > > > > > had a buddy > > > > > > > > that was using spring water. He > > > was using nothing > > > > > > but spring > > > > > > > > water and was doing this for over > > > a year and then > > > > > >=2 0out of the > > > > > > > > blue decided driving 25 miles > > > every week was more > > > > > > work than > > > > > > > > it was worth. So what he did was > > > started a 30 day > > > > > > conversion > > > > > > > > process. Start doing 5% water > > > changed twice a > > > > > > day. He did > > > > > > > > the gravel vacuum and everything > > > just took out a > > > > > > small > > > > > > > > amount of water. He had about a > > > total of 200 > > > > > > gallons between > > > > > > > > several tanks. So we are only > > > talking 10 Gallons > > > > > > a day > > > > > > > > spread out between a few tanks. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I remember him telling me it was a > > > log of work > > > > > > over that 30 > > > > > > > > days, but after all was said and > > > done they > > > > > > adapted to his > > > > > > > > tap water and he told me he lsot 2 > > > fish during > > > > > > this and has > > > > > > > > no way to know if this was do to > > > the change or > > > > > > just old age > > > > > > > > one was a 13 year old gold fish. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > It will be a lot of work, but it > > > will be easier > > > > > > using > > > > > > > > straight tap water and not messing > > > with RO. Now > > > > > > if you tap > > > > > > > > water is so far out there maybe > > > you'll want to > > > > > > start using > > > > > > > > RO, but same thing if the > > > perimeters are > > > > > > different than your > > > > > > > > set up now you'll want to still > > > slowly convert > > > > > > them over. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Robb From Utah. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, > > > bill 1433 <warrenprint@> > > > > > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Hi again Lainey, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Rob does mention one very > > > important detail > > > > > > on your > > > > > > > > water. Yes, most of the time, fish > > > will adapt > > > > > > BUT the > > > > > > > > secret is TIME. How long and how > > > well you carry > > > > > > over any > > > > > > > > changes to your fishes' current > > > water parameters > > > > > > is very > > > > > > > > important. > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] ------------------------------------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. ·´¯`·.¸C2.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the home page. Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com to receive the digest, which includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com for the No E-Mail option where you will still be able to read messages on the group and post replies. Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com to receive individual e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links mailto:AquaticLife-fullfeatured@yahoogroups.com

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 43714	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 10/8/2009
Subject: Re: Questions about water

Lainey, In that case, you probably would be much better off with the PVAS (Pioneer Valley Aquarium Society) in the Springfield area. There used to be a club in the Pittsfield area, but they kind of dwindled away years ago, and I never heard if they got things together again. They were the Berkshire Aquarium Club, I believe. http://www.pvas.net/home/ \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Lainey Alexander Sent: Thursday, October 08, 2009 10:34 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: Questions about water Oh I will look into this society, thank you. I live in western MA in the Berkshire mountains. Lainey http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com On Oct 8, 2009, at 8:31 PM, Steve Szabo wrote: > Lainey, > > Are you a member of the BAS? They meet at the Aquarium once a month. > http://www.bostonaquariumsociety.org > I don't know who all is going to meetings these days, it has been > about > 13 years since I was to a Boston meeting, but the have (had) some > really > knowledgeable people there. You may wish to check them out. > > Where is it that you have such water from a well, certainly not in > Boston? > > \\Steve// > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] > On Behalf Of Lainey Alexander > Sent: Thursday, October 08, 2009 11:21 AM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: Questions about water > > Thank you, Bill, this is reassuring about the rams. I am encouraged > because not only are they doing well, they are growing quite well and > developing very strong colors. I got them quite young about four > weeks ago. The cories are doing well also, but they are shy and I > tend to see them in and among the plant roots rather than out front. > They do eat well and charge around when I offer an algae wafer:) > > The thing I keep worrying about is the quarantine being at pH7.8 > which is where it wants to be. The guy at my Boston based LFS scared > me by telling me that pH 7.5 was "way too high". I have spoken to > lots of people with planted tanks who have convinced me otherwise, > but 7.8 seems too high. I am leaving it alone today rather than > sticking the CO2 diffuser in there or adding more RO etc. But it does > make me nervous. I have ten baby celestial pearl danios in the QT, > not big enough to join the main tank, so maybe that's why I'm > worried. But I think CPDs like a higher pH? > > Anyway, I'll know the answers soon enough. > > Lainey > http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com > > On Oct 8, 2009, at 10:04 AM, bill 1433 wrote: > > > Hi Lainey > > > > In your fish list you have Rams and Cory's among the others. The > > reason I am pointing this out is because I know for a fact that > > Rams are very demanding as to their tanks conditions. They simply > > will not tolerate bad ones! > > > > I mention this in light of a part of a message sent a while ago > > from Lenny talking about being content with your "old" or past > > conditions. I must tell you that however far off you think they > > are, Lenny is right. Whatever your doing, your doing well or right > > and I highly suggest you continue with it! Why? > > > > As I said, Rams are cranky about water conditions. So much so that > > I can tell you this, those fish would not be alive now without good > > water. I'm from the "old school" starting back in the 70's, and > > have returned to the hobby and became active just a bit over a year > > ago. I have spent all of this time with, and devoting myself to > > Rams. If you have these fish a month or more, and they are healthy, > > eating and active, you're doing something very right! Also with > > Corys, if they are active and doing well they are a very good > > indicator of tank and water conditions over all. If they become > > inactive and almost lethargic and not searching for food, you can > > almost bet that you have something wrong. Are these fish all in a > > 32-gallon tank, I think you mentioned? > > > > Keep us posted? > > > > Bill > > > > --- On Wed, 10/7/09, Lainey Alexander <lainealex@...> > wrote: > > > > > From: Lainey Alexander <lainealex@...> > > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: Questions about water > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > > Date: Wednesday, October 7, 2009, 9:21 PM > > > Hi Lenny - > > > > > > Thank you for clarifying this about the CO2 and pH. I think > > > I did > > > post my fish list recently, but here it is again: > > > > > > 7 rummy nose tetras > > > 8 Siamese algae eaters > > > 5 cory catfish > > > 1 pr blue rams > > > 4 otocinclus > > > > > > I hope to add a school of ten or so celestial pearl danios > > > which are > > > in the QT, but that will be it. > > > > > > The main concern I have with my pH is the plants. I have a > > > wide > > > assortment, and most of them prefer a neutral to slightly > > > acid pH. > > > Does this mean I would have to lower my tap water for the > > > plants to 7 > > > pH and then add the co2 and get down to like 6.2? That > > > seems too > > > difficult and troublesome, which is why I am doing it the > > > way I am. > > > Basically I throw in one quarter part RO to my tap water to > > > make the > > > plants happier, and then run the co2 until the co2 meter > > > tells me > > > there is a plant-happy amount of co2 in the water. At this > > > point, my > > > pH is about neutral. > > > > > > When I go to set up the quarantine, with no co2, the pH is > > > 7.9. So I > > > will be placing the QT fish into the main tank and was > > > worried that > > > this would be too drastic a change for them since the co2 > > > in the main > > > tank brings the pH down to 7. But it sounds like I should > > > not worry > > > about the change there, and just use my regular tank water > > > for the QT > > > (with no co2) and the QT fish should be able to adjust to > > > the main > > > tank with the co2. > > > > > > Lainey > > > http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com > > > > > > On Oct 7, 2009, at 8:31 PM, Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > > > > > > > Using CO2 to change the pH is not really necessary and > > > is a waste > > > > of CO2. > > > > Using CO2 to raise the CO2 levels for promoting plant > > > growth is > > > > good. You > > > > really should allow your fish to acclimate to your > > > filtered tap > > > > water and go > > > > from there. As I stated earlier in this thread, your > > > pH and > > > > hardness levels > > > > are NOT that high and your tank's pH and hardness will > > > be even > > > > lower than > > > > your tap levels in an established tank... unless you > > > are keeping > > > > fish that > > > > absolutely have to have a very low pH. Several of us > > > have asked > > > > what fish > > > > you have or plan to have but I haven't seen this > > > information. > > > > > > > > Yes, while CO2 will alter the pH, this type of change > > > does not > > > > affect fish > > > > for some reason so changing it, thinking you will be > > > making things > > > > better > > > > for the fish is simply not effective. The GH and KH > > > remain the same. > > > > > > > > This has been discussed repeatedly in planted tank > > > forums. When CO2 > > > > is not > > > > used and there is a drastic pH change/crash, usually > > > do to poor water > > > > quality, it is usually a result of a low KH level and > > > sometimes the > > > > GH level > > > > as well. When the KH level gets too low, it can and > > > usually will > > > > result in > > > > a pH crash, which can cause pH shock to fish, which is > > > sometimes > > > > fatal. > > > > BUT... lowering the pH, even drastically, using CO2 > > > does NOT cause > > > > health > > > > effects to fish... because the GH and KH levels should > > > stay the > > > > same so > > > > there is no corresponding osmoregulatory shock to the > > > fish. > > > > > > > > In fact, in planted tanks (or ponds) without CO2 > > > injection, the pH > > > > level > > > > will often change by more than a full point during a > > > 24 hour period > > > > because, > > > > during the day, when the plants are using up available > > > CO2 during > > > > photosynthesis. This raises the pH during the day. > > > Then at night, some > > > > plants actually reverse the process, taking in O2 and > > > putting out > > > > CO2, which > > > > results in a much lower pH at night... BUT once again, > > > this change > > > > in pH as > > > > a result in CO2 levels DOES NOT seem to affect fish > > > like a pH crash > > > > that is > > > > not a result of CO2 injection. > > > > > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > > > > (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are > > > listed on the > > > > right > > > > side, alphabetically under Labels and also under > > > Archives by Year, > > > > Month) > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > > > > > > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] > > > On > > > > Behalf Of Lainey Alexander > > > > Sent: Wednesday, October 07, 2009 5:27 PM > > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: Questions about water > > > > > > > > I just want to thank everyone for feedback on my water > > > issues. I am > > > > busy > > > > trying to troubleshoot this quarantine set up so not > > > writing back, > > > > but very > > > > much appreciate your help. So far I haven't gotten too > > > far, all I > > > > have come > > > > up with is to transfer my CO2 back and forth from the > > > main tank to the > > > > quarantine - tedious but it does maintain the pH for > > > both tanks. As > > > > long as > > > > I don't leave the house! > > > > > > > > I have done many of the 48 hour tests... > > > > > > > > Going to try bottled water from the store tonight for > > > the QT wish > > > > me luck! > > > > > > > > Lainey > > > > http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com > > > > > > > > On Oct 7, 2009, at 3:48 PM, bill 1433 wrote: > > > > > > > > > No worries Robb! > > > > > > > > > > It's just that I have had recent experience with > > > my own well water. > > > > > This water had 0 hardness and a pH of 5.5 to 5.8! > > > Since all LPS were > > > > > in the 7.0 ranges, with a hardness level of 5, I > > > think you can > > > > readily > > > > > see the problem. But changing as I did, in the > > > end I decided to > > > > bring > > > > > MY tanks more into line with the local shops. The > > > reason again, > > > > time. > > > > > To get the fish into my well water safely took > > > well over a month. > > > > This > > > > > was added work and expense in keeping another > > > tank up and running > > > > for > > > > > no other reason other than to acclimate new > > > fish. > > > > > > > > > > Working very closely with a guy who has since > > > become a good > > > > friend and > > > > > a fellow "old-timer" like myself, I slowly > > > brought my tanks into a > > > > > more neutral state and with some hardness value. > > > But in saying > > > > all of > > > > > that I should also mention that these new or > > > controlled water > > > > > parameters are all controlled by regular water > > > changes and standard > > > > > tank maintenance, without which the fish would > > > not survive. > > > > > > > > > > Bill > > > > > > > > > > --- On Wed, 10/7/09, robbrouse <robbrouse@...> > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > From: robbrouse <robbrouse@...> > > > > > > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Questions about > > > water > > > > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > > > > > Date: Wednesday, October 7, 2009, 3:07 PM > > > Bill, hard a brain > > > > cramp I > > > > > > guess. You are more than right you want to > > > take a full month or so > > > > > > to convert it over not 10 days. Guess I > > > should either pay less > > > > > > attention to work or more to the post I > > > enter (LOL). Yes do the > > > > 5 to > > > > > > 10% every 4 days maybe 5. Again sorry for > > > this information been to > > > > > > busy at work to give advice sorry about > > > that. > > > > > > > > > > > > Robb > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, > > > > > > bill 1433 <warrenprint@...> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Hi Rob, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I would agree here but save for the > > > speed! > > > > > > Everything you said but in half. A 5 or 10 % > > > water change, or in a > > > > > > 10-gallon tank, 1 gallon changed every four > > > days, at most. With > > > > > > such a wide parameter range as hers, slower > > > is definitely better. > > > > > > Don't you agree? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Bill > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > --- On Wed, 10/7/09, robbrouse > > > <robbrouse@...> > > > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > From: robbrouse > > > <robbrouse@...> > > > > > > > > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: > > > Questions about water > > > > > > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > > > > > > > Date: Wednesday, October 7, 2009, > > > 1:52 PM Thanks Bill totally > > > > > > > > forgot about this. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > How I would start this process > > > would be start > > > > > > with 5 or 10% > > > > > > > > water changed do them one or two > > > times a day with > > > > > > 10 or 12 > > > > > > > > hours in-between if it's 2 times a > > > day. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Make sure that the water you are > > > converting over > > > > > > to is the > > > > > > > > same perimeters. Same PH, GH, KH > > > and all that. I > > > > > > had a buddy > > > > > > > > that was using spring water. He > > > was using nothing > > > > > > but spring > > > > > > > > water and was doing this for over > > > a year and then > > > > > > out of the > > > > > > > > blue decided driving 25 miles > > > every week was more > > > > > > work than > > > > > > > > it was worth. So what he did was > > > started a 30 day > > > > > > conversion > > > > > > > > process. Start doing 5% water > > > changed twice a > > > > > > day. He did > > > > > > > > the gravel vacuum and everything > > > just took out a > > > > > > small > > > > > > > > amount of water. He had about a > > > total of 200 > > > > > > gallons between > > > > > > > > several tanks. So we are only > > > talking 10 Gallons > > > > > > a day > > > > > > > > spread out between a few tanks. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I remember him telling me it was a > > > log of work > > > > > > over that 30 > > > > > > > > days, but after all was said and > > > done they > > > > > > adapted to his > > > > > > > > tap water and he told me he lsot 2 > > > fish during > > > > > > this and has > > > > > > > > no way to know if this was do to > > > the change or > > > > > > just old age > > > > > > > > one was a 13 year old gold fish. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > It will be a lot of work, but it > > > will be easier > > > > > > using > > > > > > > > straight tap water and not messing > > > with RO. Now > > > > > > if you tap > > > > > > > > water is so far out there maybe > > > you'll want to > > > > > > start using > > > > > > > > RO, but same thing if the > > > perimeters are > > > > > > different than your > > > > > > > > set up now you'll want to still > > > slowly convert > > > > > > them over. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Robb From Utah. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, > > > bill 1433 <warrenprint@> > > > > > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Hi again Lainey, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Rob does mention one very > > > important detail > > > > > > on your > > > > > > > > water. Yes, most of the time, fish > > > will adapt > > > > > > BUT the > > > > > > > > secret is TIME. How long and how > > > well you carry > > > > > > over any > > > > > > > > changes to your fishes' current > > > water parameters > > > > > > is very > > > > > > > > important. > > > > > > > > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 43715	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 10/8/2009
Subject: Re: Questions about water

OK. What are all the levels. Ammonia, nitrite, nitrate, pH, GH, KH and any others you may have. If you do not have those six, give us what you have. I realize you've probably posted them all at various times, although I do not recall seeing your GH level (some test kits refer to this as alkalinity) but it's good to see them all together. I guess, because of the sand filter and then the softener, by the time your water comes out the tap, it has had a chance to outgas/ingas and level out. Usually, many tap waters and/or well waters will have things like CO2 that shows the tap water with a lower pH out the tap but then as that CO2 outgases, the pH will rise. Or other public utility tap waters are treated with buffers to raise the pH while the water travels through the public pipes but these buffers are only added at a level to keep the pH above 7.0 during the transport through the pipes and the buffers will usually wear out once the water is exposed to light and air or just wears out it's buffering capacity and those kinds of water will have a higher pH out the tap and then it goes down. I'm glad yours is stable. Since you are on a well, you should do this 48 hour baseline a few times a year just to make sure things stay relatively stable year round. I know my summer time water has a higher pH and hardness than my winter time water. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Lainey Alexander Sent: Thursday, October 08, 2009 9:32 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: Questions about water Yes, the levels don't seem to change over one or two days - nothing seems to budge at all. Lainey http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com On Oct 8, 2009, at 3:21 PM, Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > Did you ever do/start the 48 hour baseline testing that I recommended? > I'd like to see all of your test results of the same water sample, > right out the tap, after 24 hours and then after 48 hours, just to be > sure. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] ------------------------------------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. 74/`7.88.><((((:>.74/`7.88.74/`7.8><((((:> 8.74/`7.8. , .74/`7..><((((:> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <:((((><.74/`7.88.74/`7.8<:((((><8.74/`7.8. , .74/`7..<:((((><74/`7.88. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the home page. Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com to receive the digest, which includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com for the No E-Mail option where you will still be able to read messages on the group and post replies. Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com to receive individual e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 43716	From: Lainey Alexander	Date: 10/9/2009
Subject: Re: Questions about water

Ammonia - 0 Nitrite - 0 Nitrate - 0 GH - I don't have a test for this I will try to get one soon KH - 5 with 25% RO mixed in the tap (which is what I am using) and 7 straight from the tap pH - 7.9 from the tap and 7.6 with 25% RO mixed into the tap Lainey http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com On Oct 8, 2009, at 11:18 PM, Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > OK. What are all the levels. Ammonia, nitrite, nitrate, pH, GH, KH > and any > others you may have. If you do not have those six, give us what you > have. > I realize you've probably posted them all at various times, > although I do > not recall seeing your GH level (some test kits refer to this as > alkalinity) > but it's good to see them all together. > > I guess, because of the sand filter and then the softener, by the > time your > water comes out the tap, it has had a chance to outgas/ingas and > level out. > > Usually, many tap waters and/or well waters will have things like > CO2 that > shows the tap water with a lower pH out the tap but then as that CO2 > outgases, the pH will rise. Or other public utility tap waters are > treated > with buffers to raise the pH while the water travels through the > public > pipes but these buffers are only added at a level to keep the pH > above 7.0 > during the transport through the pipes and the buffers will usually > wear out > once the water is exposed to light and air or just wears out it's > buffering > capacity and those kinds of water will have a higher pH out the tap > and then > it goes down. I'm glad yours is stable. Since you are on a well, you > should do this 48 hour baseline a few times a year just to make > sure things > stay relatively stable year round. I know my summer time water has > a higher > pH and hardness than my winter time water. > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the > right > side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, > Month) > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On > Behalf Of Lainey Alexander > Sent: Thursday, October 08, 2009 9:32 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: Questions about water > > Yes, the levels don't seem to change over one or two days - nothing > seems to > budge at all. > > Lainey > http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com > > On Oct 8, 2009, at 3:21 PM, Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > > > Did you ever do/start the 48 hour baseline testing that I > recommended? > > I'd like to see all of your test results of the same water sample, > > right out the tap, after 24 hours and then after 48 hours, just > to be > > sure. > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > ------------------------------------ > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, > Thank You. > 74/`7.88.><((((:>.74/`7.88.74/`7.8><((((:> 8.74/`7.8. , .74/`7..>< > ((((:> > PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT > important to > the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY > the SUBJECT > LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- > <:((((><.74/`7.88.74/`7.8<:((((><8.74/`7.8. , .74/`7..<:((((><74/ > `7.88. > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. > > If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of > unsubscribing, you > can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My Membership" > on the > home page. > > Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com to receive the digest, > which > includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email > > Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com for the No E-Mail > option where > you will still be able to read messages on the group and post replies. > > Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com to receive individual > e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 43717	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 10/9/2009
Subject: Re: Questions about water

I think you already mentioned that these numbers are out of your tap but stay the same over the 48 hour baseline testing... except for the pH and hardness levels which are lowered by the RO mix. You should get a GH test kit just so you'll know that number since you have such *weird* water to begin with. LOL And since you are striving to create the best possibly ecology for your tank(s). When you see the hardness levels mentioned in the water parameters on most fish profiles, that number is for GH, not KH. KH is Carbonate Hardness, which is important to have a sufficient level of KH in a tank as the KH is what will keep the pH from crashing. If the KH gets too low, the pH can crash. The GH level is the overall General Hardness level which is the number that determines if water is soft, medium, hard, etc. Regardless of the GH level, soft, medium or hard water should have a sufficient KH level to maintain pH stability in between tank maintenance and PWC's. For heavily stocked tanks, like my goldfish tank, for example, a KH level of between 5-7 dKH is a good place to start as long as it doesn't drop down too far in between PWC's, then your weekly PWC's should replenish the KH level each week. In case you do not know, 1 dH (degree of Hardness) = 17.9ppm (parts per million) of hardness. For simplicity, I round it up to 20ppm so 5 dH would equal around 100ppm of either KH or GH. Most sites list the dH levels but some will list the ppm levels. Also, as I stated in an earlier reply, if you want to forego using RO water, if it becomes a burden, you could use Peat Moss in your filter system or brew up a big batch of Peat Tea (soaking the Peat Moss in a 30G plastic garbage can) which will be a much softer water and then use a percentage of it with each PWC to slightly soften your water and slightly lower the pH. In nature, this same effect happens naturally by decaying leaves, etc., in the bottoms of streams so this is a natural way of doing it. The reason most sites mention Peat Moss and Peat Tea is because Peat Moss is cheap and easy to come by at most garden supply centers. I guess leaves are easy to come by too but then you'd have to worry about herbicides, insecticides, etc. You also won't have the expense of the RO filters or the wasted water from the RO process. Further, regardless of all that has been said, what you have been doing has been working for you, as far as I know so anything you do change should be done slowly to allow your fish to acclimate to any changes. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Lainey Alexander Sent: Friday, October 09, 2009 10:22 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: Questions about water Ammonia - 0 Nitrite - 0 Nitrate - 0 GH - I don't have a test for this I will try to get one soon KH - 5 with 25% RO mixed in the tap (which is what I am using) and 7 straight from the tap pH - 7.9 from the tap and 7.6 with 25% RO mixed into the tap Lainey http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com On Oct 8, 2009, at 11:18 PM, Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > OK. What are all the levels. Ammonia, nitrite, nitrate, pH, GH, KH and > any others you may have. If you do not have those six, give us what > you have. > I realize you've probably posted them all at various times, although I > do not recall seeing your GH level (some test kits refer to this as > alkalinity) > but it's good to see them all together. > > I guess, because of the sand filter and then the softener, by the time > your water comes out the tap, it has had a chance to outgas/ingas and > level out. > > Usually, many tap waters and/or well waters will have things like > CO2 that > shows the tap water with a lower pH out the tap but then as that CO2 > outgases, the pH will rise. Or other public utility tap waters are > treated with buffers to raise the pH while the water travels through > the public pipes but these buffers are only added at a level to keep > the pH above 7.0 during the transport through the pipes and the > buffers will usually wear out once the water is exposed to light and > air or just wears out it's buffering capacity and those kinds of water > will have a higher pH out the tap and then it goes down. I'm glad > yours is stable. Since you are on a well, you should do this 48 hour > baseline a few times a year just to make sure things stay relatively > stable year round. I know my summer time water has a higher pH and > hardness than my winter time water. > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles > referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically > under Labels and also under Archives by Year, > Month) > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Lainey Alexander > Sent: Thursday, October 08, 2009 9:32 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: Questions about water > > Yes, the levels don't seem to change over one or two days - nothing > seems to budge at all. > > Lainey > http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com > > On Oct 8, 2009, at 3:21 PM, Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > > > Did you ever do/start the 48 hour baseline testing that I > recommended? > > I'd like to see all of your test results of the same water sample, > > right out the tap, after 24 hours and then after 48 hours, just > to be > > sure. > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 43718	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 10/9/2009
Subject: Car Safety And Fish

The below SNIP was posted to another fish group but I thought folks out here might be interested as well. Here's a link to the original article that I found by Googling some of the key words from the below SNIP. http://www.geek.com/articles/chips/nissan-eporo-robot-car-navigation-using-f ish-behavior-2009105/ (START SNIP FROM OTHER GROUP) Nissan is working on a new robotic car that may remove the human element from accidents altogether. That car is called EPORO (short for Episode Zero Robot) and it mimics the behavior of fish in order to move and avoid collisions. The car is just a concept at the moment, but the important thing is the anti-collision and navigation systems they contain. Using the movement of fish as a base, Nissan has managed to make the cars navigate like a school of fish do using group behavior to collect and react to data being fed between the different vehicles. This means that cars can travel close together and at speed without fear of hitting each other and causing an accident. Toshiyuki Andou, Manager of Nissan's Mobility Laboratory and principal engineer of the robot car project said: "We, in a motorized world, have a lot to learn from the behavior of a school of fish in terms of each fish's degree of freedom and safety within a school and high migration efficiency of a school itself. In EPORO, we recreated the behavior of a school of fish making full use of cutting-edge electronic technologies. By sharing the surrounding information received within the group via communication, the group of EPOROs can travel safely, changing its shape (Andou means here the shape of the group of cars) as needed." (END SNIP) Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month)

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 43719	From: kuradi8	Date: 10/10/2009
Subject: Re: Car Safety And Fish

Wow. In a way that's really cool. But in other ways, it takes the fun out of it for those of us who ENJOY driving. I wonder if there is a semi-automatic mode in which it corrects our mistakes and bad judgement as we pilot the car. Or if we are simply passengers in that vehicle. ~Kai --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@...> wrote: > > The below SNIP was posted to another fish group but I thought folks out here > might be interested as well. > > Here's a link to the original article that I found by Googling some of the > key words from the below SNIP. > > http://www.geek.com/articles/chips/nissan-eporo-robot-car-navigation-using-f > ish-behavior-2009105/ > > (START SNIP FROM OTHER GROUP) > Nissan is working on a new robotic car that may remove the human element > from accidents altogether. That car is called EPORO (short for Episode Zero > Robot) and it mimics the behavior of fish in order to move and avoid > collisions. > > The car is just a concept at the moment, but the important thing is the > anti-collision and navigation systems they contain. Using the movement of > fish as a base, Nissan has managed to make the cars navigate like a school > of fish do using group behavior to collect and react to data being fed > between the different vehicles. This means that cars can travel close > together and at speed without fear of hitting each other and causing an > accident. > > Toshiyuki Andou, Manager of Nissan's Mobility Laboratory and principal > engineer of the robot car project said: > > "We, in a motorized world, have a lot to learn from the behavior of a school > of fish in terms of each fish's degree of freedom and safety within a school > and high migration efficiency of a school itself. In EPORO, we recreated the > behavior of a school of fish making full use of cutting-edge electronic > technologies. By sharing the surrounding information received within the > group via communication, the group of EPOROs can travel safely, changing its > shape (Andou means here the shape of the group of cars) as needed." > (END SNIP) > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right > side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 43720	From: Lainey Alexander	Date: 10/10/2009
Subject: Re: Questions about water

I had a lab test done that says my alkalinity is 228 mg/l. Does that tell us anything? Same test says hardness is 300mg/l. Thanks for all the help. Lainey http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com On Oct 9, 2009, at 8:42 PM, Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > I think you already mentioned that these numbers are out of your > tap but > stay the same over the 48 hour baseline testing... except for the > pH and > hardness levels which are lowered by the RO mix. > > You should get a GH test kit just so you'll know that number since > you have > such *weird* water to begin with. LOL And since you are striving to > create > the best possibly ecology for your tank(s). > > When you see the hardness levels mentioned in the water parameters > on most > fish profiles, that number is for GH, not KH. KH is Carbonate > Hardness, > which is important to have a sufficient level of KH in a tank as > the KH is > what will keep the pH from crashing. If the KH gets too low, the pH > can > crash. The GH level is the overall General Hardness level which is the > number that determines if water is soft, medium, hard, etc. > Regardless of > the GH level, soft, medium or hard water should have a sufficient > KH level > to maintain pH stability in between tank maintenance and PWC's. > > For heavily stocked tanks, like my goldfish tank, for example, a KH > level of > between 5-7 dKH is a good place to start as long as it doesn't drop > down too > far in between PWC's, then your weekly PWC's should replenish the > KH level > each week. > > In case you do not know, 1 dH (degree of Hardness) = 17.9ppm (parts > per > million) of hardness. For simplicity, I round it up to 20ppm so 5 > dH would > equal around 100ppm of either KH or GH. Most sites list the dH > levels but > some will list the ppm levels. > > Also, as I stated in an earlier reply, if you want to forego using > RO water, > if it becomes a burden, you could use Peat Moss in your filter > system or > brew up a big batch of Peat Tea (soaking the Peat Moss in a 30G > plastic > garbage can) which will be a much softer water and then use a > percentage of > it with each PWC to slightly soften your water and slightly lower > the pH. > In nature, this same effect happens naturally by decaying leaves, > etc., in > the bottoms of streams so this is a natural way of doing it. The > reason > most sites mention Peat Moss and Peat Tea is because Peat Moss is > cheap and > easy to come by at most garden supply centers. I guess leaves are > easy to > come by too but then you'd have to worry about herbicides, > insecticides, > etc. You also won't have the expense of the RO filters or the > wasted water > from the RO process. > > Further, regardless of all that has been said, what you have been > doing has > been working for you, as far as I know so anything you do change > should be > done slowly to allow your fish to acclimate to any changes. > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the > right > side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, > Month) > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On > Behalf Of Lainey Alexander > Sent: Friday, October 09, 2009 10:22 AM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: Questions about water > > Ammonia - 0 > > Nitrite - 0 > > Nitrate - 0 > > GH - I don't have a test for this I will try to get one soon > > KH - 5 with 25% RO mixed in the tap (which is what I am using) and 7 > straight from the tap > > pH - 7.9 from the tap and 7.6 with 25% RO mixed into the tap > > Lainey > http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com > > On Oct 8, 2009, at 11:18 PM, Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > > > OK. What are all the levels. Ammonia, nitrite, nitrate, pH, GH, > KH and > > any others you may have. If you do not have those six, give us what > > you have. > > I realize you've probably posted them all at various times, > although I > > do not recall seeing your GH level (some test kits refer to this as > > alkalinity) > > but it's good to see them all together. > > > > I guess, because of the sand filter and then the softener, by the > time > > your water comes out the tap, it has had a chance to outgas/ingas > and > > level out. > > > > Usually, many tap waters and/or well waters will have things like > > CO2 that > > shows the tap water with a lower pH out the tap but then as that CO2 > > outgases, the pH will rise. Or other public utility tap waters are > > treated with buffers to raise the pH while the water travels through > > the public pipes but these buffers are only added at a level to keep > > the pH above 7.0 during the transport through the pipes and the > > buffers will usually wear out once the water is exposed to light and > > air or just wears out it's buffering capacity and those kinds of > water > > will have a higher pH out the tap and then it goes down. I'm glad > > yours is stable. Since you are on a well, you should do this 48 hour > > baseline a few times a year just to make sure things stay relatively > > stable year round. I know my summer time water has a higher pH and > > hardness than my winter time water. > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles > > referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, > alphabetically > > under Labels and also under Archives by Year, > > Month) > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Lainey Alexander > > Sent: Thursday, October 08, 2009 9:32 PM > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: Questions about water > > > > Yes, the levels don't seem to change over one or two days - nothing > > seems to budge at all. > > > > Lainey > > http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com > > > > On Oct 8, 2009, at 3:21 PM, Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > > > > > Did you ever do/start the 48 hour baseline testing that I > > recommended? > > > I'd like to see all of your test results of the same water sample, > > > right out the tap, after 24 hours and then after 48 hours, just > > to be > > > sure. > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 43721	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 10/10/2009
Subject: Re: Questions about water

OK. "mg/l" (milligrams per liter) is pretty much equal to ppm (parts per million) for our level of testing. So, the 228 mg/l alkalinity (buffering capacity or KH) would be equal to 228ppm which is equal to 12.7 dKH (228 divided by 17.9 since we know that 1 dH = 17.9ppm). The "hardness" of "300mg/l" would be equal to 300ppm or 16.7 dGH (300 divided by 17.9). The KH number above is higher than what your test kit is showing, of course, since you have well water, the sample that they tested could be different than what you are testing today... OR... was that the well water that they tested... or the tap water, after going through your filter/softener? How long ago was the lab testing done? On a side note, I'm guessing you know that you do have to perform regular maintenance/cleaning/refilling of your whole house filter and softener systems.. right? If you put off the maintenance/cleaning/refilling, that would have an effect on the water parameters of your tap water also. There are probably some Rift Lake cichlid keepers that are drooling to have your well water... albeit without the nasties that come with it. So many of those folks have to mix up their own DIY batches of water hardening recipes to make their tap water hard enough for their fish. I think I mentioned before, but you should probably use a dechlor product on your tanks, even though you do not have chlorine/chloramine treated water. I remember you mentioned having some heavy metal content to your well water and most dechlor products also treat for heavy metals so that part of the dechlor would benefit your fish tanks. I do not think your sand filter or water softener would remove/treat heavy metals, although your RO filter would but you are only using a small percentage of that for your fish tanks anyhow. I recommend API's Tap Water Conditioner as it is highly concentrated compared to other comparably sized products. A 16 oz. bottle of API's TWC will treat 9,600 gallons of water and can be found online (DrsFosterSmith.com) for around $5.00. Most other products in the 16 oz. size only treats 2,400 to 4,800 gallons and usually cost more so API's product is a very good value. To put this in perspective, if you are treating 25 gallons a week, the 16 oz. API bottle will last you 384 weeks so the $5.00 price is a very small price for the added peace of mind that you are treating any potential heavy metals in your tanks before they can have long term health effects on your fish or more urgent health effects on your inverts, if you have any. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Lainey Alexander Sent: Saturday, October 10, 2009 10:19 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: Questions about water I had a lab test done that says my alkalinity is 228 mg/l. Does that tell us anything? Same test says hardness is 300mg/l. Thanks for all the help. Lainey http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com On Oct 9, 2009, at 8:42 PM, Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > I think you already mentioned that these numbers are out of your tap > but stay the same over the 48 hour baseline testing... except for the > pH and hardness levels which are lowered by the RO mix. > > You should get a GH test kit just so you'll know that number since you > have such *weird* water to begin with. LOL And since you are striving > to create the best possibly ecology for your tank(s). > > When you see the hardness levels mentioned in the water parameters on > most fish profiles, that number is for GH, not KH. KH is Carbonate > Hardness, which is important to have a sufficient level of KH in a > tank as the KH is what will keep the pH from crashing. If the KH gets > too low, the pH can crash. The GH level is the overall General > Hardness level which is the number that determines if water is soft, > medium, hard, etc. > Regardless of > the GH level, soft, medium or hard water should have a sufficient KH > level to maintain pH stability in between tank maintenance and PWC's. > > For heavily stocked tanks, like my goldfish tank, for example, a KH > level of between 5-7 dKH is a good place to start as long as it > doesn't drop down too far in between PWC's, then your weekly PWC's > should replenish the KH level each week. > > In case you do not know, 1 dH (degree of Hardness) = 17.9ppm (parts > per > million) of hardness. For simplicity, I round it up to 20ppm so 5 dH > would equal around 100ppm of either KH or GH. Most sites list the dH > levels but some will list the ppm levels. > > Also, as I stated in an earlier reply, if you want to forego using RO > water, if it becomes a burden, you could use Peat Moss in your filter > system or brew up a big batch of Peat Tea (soaking the Peat Moss in a > 30G plastic garbage can) which will be a much softer water and then > use a percentage of it with each PWC to slightly soften your water and > slightly lower the pH. > In nature, this same effect happens naturally by decaying leaves, > etc., in the bottoms of streams so this is a natural way of doing it. > The reason most sites mention Peat Moss and Peat Tea is because Peat > Moss is cheap and easy to come by at most garden supply centers. I > guess leaves are easy to come by too but then you'd have to worry > about herbicides, insecticides, etc. You also won't have the expense > of the RO filters or the wasted water from the RO process. > > Further, regardless of all that has been said, what you have been > doing has been working for you, as far as I know so anything you do > change should be done slowly to allow your fish to acclimate to any > changes. > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles > referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically > under Labels and also under Archives by Year, > Month) > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Lainey Alexander > Sent: Friday, October 09, 2009 10:22 AM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: Questions about water > > Ammonia - 0 > > Nitrite - 0 > > Nitrate - 0 > > GH - I don't have a test for this I will try to get one soon > > KH - 5 with 25% RO mixed in the tap (which is what I am using) and 7 > straight from the tap > > pH - 7.9 from the tap and 7.6 with 25% RO mixed into the tap > > Lainey > http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com > > On Oct 8, 2009, at 11:18 PM, Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > > > OK. What are all the levels. Ammonia, nitrite, nitrate, pH, GH, > KH and > > any others you may have. If you do not have those six, give us what > > you have. > > I realize you've probably posted them all at various times, > although I > > do not recall seeing your GH level (some test kits refer to this as > > alkalinity) > > but it's good to see them all together. > > > > I guess, because of the sand filter and then the softener, by the > time > > your water comes out the tap, it has had a chance to outgas/ingas > and > > level out. > > > > Usually, many tap waters and/or well waters will have things like > > CO2 that > > shows the tap water with a lower pH out the tap but then as that CO2 > > outgases, the pH will rise. Or other public utility tap waters are > > treated with buffers to raise the pH while the water travels through > > the public pipes but these buffers are only added at a level to keep > > the pH above 7.0 during the transport through the pipes and the > > buffers will usually wear out once the water is exposed to light and > > air or just wears out it's buffering capacity and those kinds of > water > > will have a higher pH out the tap and then it goes down. I'm glad > > yours is stable. Since you are on a well, you should do this 48 hour > > baseline a few times a year just to make sure things stay relatively > > stable year round. I know my summer time water has a higher pH and > > hardness than my winter time water. > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles > > referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, > alphabetically > > under Labels and also under Archives by Year, > > Month) > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Lainey Alexander > > Sent: Thursday, October 08, 2009 9:32 PM > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: Questions about water > > > > Yes, the levels don't seem to change over one or two days - nothing > > seems to budge at all. > > > > Lainey > > http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com > > > > On Oct 8, 2009, at 3:21 PM, Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > > > > > Did you ever do/start the 48 hour baseline testing that I > > recommended? > > > I'd like to see all of your test results of the same water sample, > > > right out the tap, after 24 hours and then after 48 hours, just > > to be > > > sure.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 43722	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 10/10/2009
Subject: OT: Holy Crap! Mile of Manatee Poop Comes Ashore

http://www.nbcwashington.com/news/weird/Holy-Crap-Mile-of-Manatee-Poop-W ashes-Ashore-63851262.html http://tinyurl.com/yl2932a If you are leery of TinyURL's, you can have TinyURL set a cookie that will always preview a TinyURL for you and then allow you to go to the site if you wish. Simply go to http://www.TinyURL.com, and click on "Preview Features" in the left hand column. This takes you to a page that will have a link to "enable" previews. Until you go back and change it, every TinyURL you click on will take you to a page that will show the TinyURL and the actual link you are being directed to. For example, if you were to do this with the current TinyURL, it will show you the link I have posted above the TinyURL. \\Steve//

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 43723	From: Menagerie_Manager	Date: 10/10/2009
Subject: Re: Car Safety And Fish

Hmmmmm . . . I'm not volunteering to test it on black ice. DebR and the Three Goldfish (CB, Lucille, and Raven) ----- Original Message ----- From: "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@...> The below SNIP was posted to another fish group but I thought folks out here might be interested as well. Here's a link to the original article that I found by Googling some of the key words from the below SNIP. http://www.geek.com/articles/chips/nissan-eporo-robot-car-navigation-using-f ish-behavior-2009105/ (START SNIP FROM OTHER GROUP) Nissan is working on a new robotic car that may remove the human element from accidents altogether. That car is called EPORO (short for Episode Zero Robot) and it mimics the behavior of fish in order to move and avoid collisions. The car is just a concept at the moment, but the important thing is the anti-collision and navigation systems they contain. Using the movement of fish as a base, Nissan has managed to make the cars navigate like a school of fish do using group behavior to collect and react to data being fed between the different vehicles. This means that cars can travel close together and at speed without fear of hitting each other and causing an accident. Toshiyuki Andou, Manager of Nissan's Mobility Laboratory and principal engineer of the robot car project said: "We, in a motorized world, have a lot to learn from the behavior of a school of fish in terms of each fish's degree of freedom and safety within a school and high migration efficiency of a school itself. In EPORO, we recreated the behavior of a school of fish making full use of cutting-edge electronic technologies. By sharing the surrounding information received within the group via communication, the group of EPOROs can travel safely, changing its shape (Andou means here the shape of the group of cars) as needed." (END SNIP)

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 43724	From: Menagerie_Manager	Date: 10/10/2009
Subject: Re: Car Safety And Fish

I'm wondering how all these crash-proof cars deal with bug splat on their sensors. DebR and the Three Goldfish (CB, Lucille, and Raven) ----- Original Message ----- From: "kuradi8" <kuradi8@...> Wow. In a way that's really cool. But in other ways, it takes the fun out of it for those of us who ENJOY driving. I wonder if there is a semi-automatic mode in which it corrects our mistakes and bad judgement as we pilot the car. Or if we are simply passengers in that vehicle. ~Kai --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@...> wrote: > > The below SNIP was posted to another fish group but I thought folks out > here > might be interested as well. > > Here's a link to the original article that I found by Googling some of the > key words from the below SNIP. > > http://www.geek.com/articles/chips/nissan-eporo-robot-car-navigation-using-fish-behavior-2009105/ > > (START SNIP FROM OTHER GROUP) > Nissan is working on a new robotic car that may remove the human element > from accidents altogether. That car is called EPORO (short for Episode > Zero > Robot) and it mimics the behavior of fish in order to move and avoid > collisions. > > The car is just a concept at the moment, but the important thing is the > anti-collision and navigation systems they contain. Using the movement of > fish as a base, Nissan has managed to make the cars navigate like a school > of fish do using group behavior to collect and react to data being fed > between the different vehicles. This means that cars can travel close > together and at speed without fear of hitting each other and causing an > accident. > > Toshiyuki Andou, Manager of Nissan's Mobility Laboratory and principal > engineer of the robot car project said: > > "We, in a motorized world, have a lot to learn from the behavior of a > school > of fish in terms of each fish's degree of freedom and safety within a > school > and high migration efficiency of a school itself. In EPORO, we recreated > the > behavior of a school of fish making full use of cutting-edge electronic > technologies. By sharing the surrounding information received within the > group via communication, the group of EPOROs can travel safely, changing > its > shape (Andou means here the shape of the group of cars) as needed." > (END SNIP) > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right > side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 43725	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 10/10/2009
Subject: Re: Car Safety And Fish

Oh that's easy... They crash ;) Haven't come to that in testing yet, LOL. Amber Menagerie_Manager wrote: > > > I'm wondering how all these crash-proof cars deal with bug splat on > their sensors. > > DebR and the Three Goldfish > (CB, Lucille, and Raven) > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "kuradi8" <kuradi8@... <mailto:kuradi8%40yahoo.com>> > > Wow. In a way that's really cool. But in other ways, it takes the fun out > of it for those of us who ENJOY driving. > > I wonder if there is a semi-automatic mode in which it corrects our > mistakes > and bad judgement as we pilot the car. Or if we are simply passengers in > that vehicle. > ~Kai > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>, "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" > <GoldLenny@...> > wrote: > > > > The below SNIP was posted to another fish group but I thought folks out > > here > > might be interested as well. > > > > Here's a link to the original article that I found by Googling some > of the > > key words from the below SNIP. > > > > > http://www.geek.com/articles/chips/nissan-eporo-robot-car-navigation-using-fish-behavior-2009105/ > <http://www.geek.com/articles/chips/nissan-eporo-robot-car-navigation-using-fish-behavior-2009105/> > > > > (START SNIP FROM OTHER GROUP) > > Nissan is working on a new robotic car that may remove the human element > > from accidents altogether. That car is called EPORO (short for Episode > > Zero > > Robot) and it mimics the behavior of fish in order to move and avoid > > collisions. > > > > The car is just a concept at the moment, but the important thing is the > > anti-collision and navigation systems they contain. Using the > movement of > > fish as a base, Nissan has managed to make the cars navigate like a > school > > of fish do using group behavior to collect and react to data being fed > > between the different vehicles. This means that cars can travel close > > together and at speed without fear of hitting each other and causing an > > accident. > > > > Toshiyuki Andou, Manager of Nissan's Mobility Laboratory and principal > > engineer of the robot car project said: > > > > "We, in a motorized world, have a lot to learn from the behavior of a > > school > > of fish in terms of each fish's degree of freedom and safety within a > > school > > and high migration efficiency of a school itself. In EPORO, we > recreated > > the > > behavior of a school of fish making full use of cutting-edge electronic > > technologies. By sharing the surrounding information received within the > > group via communication, the group of EPOROs can travel safely, > changing > > its > > shape (Andou means here the shape of the group of cars) as needed." > > (END SNIP) > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right > > side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, > Month) > > > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 43726	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 10/10/2009
Subject: Re: Car Safety And Fish

No. They have other little bitty robots (official term is nano-bots) crawling around on the outside of these which clean all of the sensors... and the nano-bots have little micro-fiber booties on so they polish the car at the same time. Don't you all know anything? LOL Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Amber Berglund Sent: Saturday, October 10, 2009 3:53 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: Car Safety And Fish Oh that's easy... They crash ;) Haven't come to that in testing yet, LOL. Amber Menagerie_Manager wrote: > > > I'm wondering how all these crash-proof cars deal with bug splat on > their sensors. > > DebR and the Three Goldfish > (CB, Lucille, and Raven) > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "kuradi8" <kuradi8@... <mailto:kuradi8%40yahoo.com>> > > Wow. In a way that's really cool. But in other ways, it takes the fun > out of it for those of us who ENJOY driving. > > I wonder if there is a semi-automatic mode in which it corrects our > mistakes and bad judgement as we pilot the car. Or if we are simply > passengers in that vehicle. > ~Kai > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>, "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" > <GoldLenny@...> > wrote: > > > > The below SNIP was posted to another fish group but I thought folks > > out here might be interested as well. > > > > Here's a link to the original article that I found by Googling some > of the > > key words from the below SNIP. > > > > > http://www.geek.com/articles/chips/nissan-eporo-robot-car-navigation-u > sing-fish-behavior-2009105/ > <http://www.geek.com/articles/chips/nissan-eporo-robot-car-navigation- > using-fish-behavior-2009105/> > > > > (START SNIP FROM OTHER GROUP) > > Nissan is working on a new robotic car that may remove the human > > element from accidents altogether. That car is called EPORO (short > > for Episode Zero > > Robot) and it mimics the behavior of fish in order to move and avoid > > collisions. > > > > The car is just a concept at the moment, but the important thing is > > the anti-collision and navigation systems they contain. Using the > movement of > > fish as a base, Nissan has managed to make the cars navigate like a > school > > of fish do using group behavior to collect and react to data being > > fed between the different vehicles. This means that cars can travel > > close together and at speed without fear of hitting each other and > > causing an accident. > > > > Toshiyuki Andou, Manager of Nissan's Mobility Laboratory and > > principal engineer of the robot car project said: > > > > "We, in a motorized world, have a lot to learn from the behavior of > > a school of fish in terms of each fish's degree of freedom and > > safety within a school and high migration efficiency of a school > > itself. In EPORO, we > recreated > > the > > behavior of a school of fish making full use of cutting-edge > > electronic technologies. By sharing the surrounding information > > received within the group via communication, the group of EPOROs can > > travel safely, > changing > > its > > shape (Andou means here the shape of the group of cars) as needed." > > (END SNIP) > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the > > right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by > > Year, > Month) > > > > ------------------------------------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the home page. Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com to receive the digest, which includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com for the No E-Mail option where you will still be able to read messages on the group and post replies. Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com to receive individual e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 43727	From: Lainey Alexander	Date: 10/10/2009
Subject: Re: Questions about water

The lab testing was done a few years ago, but more recent results were very similar. This was a test on the softened water, and we do maintain all our filters etc, so not sure why the numbers are different, except that I think my lower numbers were for when I add 25% RO. All the heavy metal levels were extremely low once we apply our filters and so forth. But I will keep all your ideas in mind as I go along... Lainey http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com On Oct 10, 2009, at 12:00 PM, Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > OK. "mg/l" (milligrams per liter) is pretty much equal to ppm > (parts per > million) for our level of testing. > > So, the 228 mg/l alkalinity (buffering capacity or KH) would be > equal to > 228ppm which is equal to 12.7 dKH (228 divided by 17.9 since we > know that 1 > dH = 17.9ppm). > > The "hardness" of "300mg/l" would be equal to 300ppm or 16.7 dGH (300 > divided by 17.9). > > The KH number above is higher than what your test kit is showing, > of course, > since you have well water, the sample that they tested could be > different > than what you are testing today... OR... was that the well water > that they > tested... or the tap water, after going through your filter/ > softener? How > long ago was the lab testing done? > > On a side note, I'm guessing you know that you do have to perform > regular > maintenance/cleaning/refilling of your whole house filter and softener > systems.. right? If you put off the maintenance/cleaning/refilling, > that > would have an effect on the water parameters of your tap water also. > > There are probably some Rift Lake cichlid keepers that are drooling > to have > your well water... albeit without the nasties that come with it. So > many of > those folks have to mix up their own DIY batches of water hardening > recipes > to make their tap water hard enough for their fish. > > I think I mentioned before, but you should probably use a dechlor > product on > your tanks, even though you do not have chlorine/chloramine treated > water. > I remember you mentioned having some heavy metal content to your > well water > and most dechlor products also treat for heavy metals so that part > of the > dechlor would benefit your fish tanks. I do not think your sand > filter or > water softener would remove/treat heavy metals, although your RO > filter > would but you are only using a small percentage of that for your > fish tanks > anyhow. > > I recommend API's Tap Water Conditioner as it is highly concentrated > compared to other comparably sized products. A 16 oz. bottle of > API's TWC > will treat 9,600 gallons of water and can be found online > (DrsFosterSmith.com) for around $5.00. Most other products in the > 16 oz. > size only treats 2,400 to 4,800 gallons and usually cost more so API's > product is a very good value. To put this in perspective, if you are > treating 25 gallons a week, the 16 oz. API bottle will last you 384 > weeks so > the $5.00 price is a very small price for the added peace of mind > that you > are treating any potential heavy metals in your tanks before they > can have > long term health effects on your fish or more urgent health effects > on your > inverts, if you have any. > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the > right > side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, > Month) > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On > Behalf Of Lainey Alexander > Sent: Saturday, October 10, 2009 10:19 AM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: Questions about water > > I had a lab test done that says my alkalinity is 228 mg/l. Does > that tell > us anything? Same test says hardness is 300mg/l. > > Thanks for all the help. > > Lainey > http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com > > On Oct 9, 2009, at 8:42 PM, Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > > > I think you already mentioned that these numbers are out of your tap > > but stay the same over the 48 hour baseline testing... except for > the > > pH and hardness levels which are lowered by the RO mix. > > > > You should get a GH test kit just so you'll know that number > since you > > have such *weird* water to begin with. LOL And since you are > striving > > to create the best possibly ecology for your tank(s). > > > > When you see the hardness levels mentioned in the water > parameters on > > most fish profiles, that number is for GH, not KH. KH is Carbonate > > Hardness, which is important to have a sufficient level of KH in a > > tank as the KH is what will keep the pH from crashing. If the KH > gets > > too low, the pH can crash. The GH level is the overall General > > Hardness level which is the number that determines if water is soft, > > medium, hard, etc. > > Regardless of > > the GH level, soft, medium or hard water should have a sufficient KH > > level to maintain pH stability in between tank maintenance and > PWC's. > > > > For heavily stocked tanks, like my goldfish tank, for example, a KH > > level of between 5-7 dKH is a good place to start as long as it > > doesn't drop down too far in between PWC's, then your weekly PWC's > > should replenish the KH level each week. > > > > In case you do not know, 1 dH (degree of Hardness) = 17.9ppm (parts > > per > > million) of hardness. For simplicity, I round it up to 20ppm so 5 dH > > would equal around 100ppm of either KH or GH. Most sites list the dH > > levels but some will list the ppm levels. > > > > Also, as I stated in an earlier reply, if you want to forego > using RO > > water, if it becomes a burden, you could use Peat Moss in your > filter > > system or brew up a big batch of Peat Tea (soaking the Peat Moss > in a > > 30G plastic garbage can) which will be a much softer water and then > > use a percentage of it with each PWC to slightly soften your > water and > > slightly lower the pH. > > In nature, this same effect happens naturally by decaying leaves, > > etc., in the bottoms of streams so this is a natural way of doing > it. > > The reason most sites mention Peat Moss and Peat Tea is because Peat > > Moss is cheap and easy to come by at most garden supply centers. I > > guess leaves are easy to come by too but then you'd have to worry > > about herbicides, insecticides, etc. You also won't have the expense > > of the RO filters or the wasted water from the RO process. > > > > Further, regardless of all that has been said, what you have been > > doing has been working for you, as far as I know so anything you do > > change should be done slowly to allow your fish to acclimate to any > > changes. > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles > > referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, > alphabetically > > under Labels and also under Archives by Year, > > Month) > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Lainey Alexander > > Sent: Friday, October 09, 2009 10:22 AM > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: Questions about water > > > > Ammonia - 0 > > > > Nitrite - 0 > > > > Nitrate - 0 > > > > GH - I don't have a test for this I will try to get one soon > > > > KH - 5 with 25% RO mixed in the tap (which is what I am using) and 7 > > straight from the tap > > > > pH - 7.9 from the tap and 7.6 with 25% RO mixed into the tap > > > > Lainey > > http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com > > > > On Oct 8, 2009, at 11:18 PM, Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > > > > > OK. What are all the levels. Ammonia, nitrite, nitrate, pH, GH, > > KH and > > > any others you may have. If you do not have those six, give us > what > > > you have. > > > I realize you've probably posted them all at various times, > > although I > > > do not recall seeing your GH level (some test kits refer to > this as > > > alkalinity) > > > but it's good to see them all together. > > > > > > I guess, because of the sand filter and then the softener, by the > > time > > > your water comes out the tap, it has had a chance to outgas/ingas > > and > > > level out. > > > > > > Usually, many tap waters and/or well waters will have things like > > > CO2 that > > > shows the tap water with a lower pH out the tap but then as > that CO2 > > > outgases, the pH will rise. Or other public utility tap waters are > > > treated with buffers to raise the pH while the water travels > through > > > the public pipes but these buffers are only added at a level to > keep > > > the pH above 7.0 during the transport through the pipes and the > > > buffers will usually wear out once the water is exposed to > light and > > > air or just wears out it's buffering capacity and those kinds of > > water > > > will have a higher pH out the tap and then it goes down. I'm glad > > > yours is stable. Since you are on a well, you should do this 48 > hour > > > baseline a few times a year just to make sure things stay > relatively > > > stable year round. I know my summer time water has a higher pH and > > > hardness than my winter time water. > > > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles > > > referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, > > alphabetically > > > under Labels and also under Archives by Year, > > > Month) > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Lainey Alexander > > > Sent: Thursday, October 08, 2009 9:32 PM > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: Questions about water > > > > > > Yes, the levels don't seem to change over one or two days - > nothing > > > seems to budge at all. > > > > > > Lainey > > > http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com > > > > > > On Oct 8, 2009, at 3:21 PM, Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > > > > > > > Did you ever do/start the 48 hour baseline testing that I > > > recommended? > > > > I'd like to see all of your test results of the same water > sample, > > > > right out the tap, after 24 hours and then after 48 hours, just > > > to be > > > > sure. > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 43728	From: bill 1433	Date: 10/10/2009
Subject: API's Tap Water Conditioner

Many times this product, API's Tap Water Conditioner has been mentioned on this group by Len and a few others. Currently I use "Prime". Reading comments and hype on their web sites most recently I come away thinking "Do both of these products accomplish the same goals, treating heavy metals. Doing the math here I am thinking that the API is far and away a real bargain. For those that have used both, I'd like to hear if any differences exist aside from the obvious---------------price. Bill

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 43729	From: Dora Smith	Date: 10/10/2009
Subject: Re: API's Tap Water Conditioner

As far as I know, Prime doesn't remove heavy metals, and API doesn't remove ammonia from the breakdown of chloramines. I currently use both. First API, which is the more concentrated chlorine remover, then Prime for what's left. Yours, Dora Smith Austin, TX tiggernut24@... ----- Original Message ----- From: "bill 1433" <warrenprint@...> To: "AquaticLife" <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Saturday, October 10, 2009 6:11 PM Subject: [AquaticLife] API's Tap Water Conditioner Many times this product, API's Tap Water Conditioner has been mentioned on this group by Len and a few others. Currently I use "Prime". Reading comments and hype on their web sites most recently I come away thinking "Do both of these products accomplish the same goals, treating heavy metals. Doing the math here I am thinking that the API is far and away a real bargain. For those that have used both, I'd like to hear if any differences exist aside from the obvious---------------price. Bill ------------------------------------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the home page. Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com to receive the digest, which includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com for the No E-Mail option where you will still be able to read messages on the group and post replies. Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com to receive individual e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 43730	From: Dora Smith	Date: 10/10/2009
Subject: Re: API's Tap Water Conditioner

API is more concentrated, so you can save alot of money using it. Yours, Dora Smith Austin, TX tiggernut24@... ----- Original Message ----- From: "bill 1433" <warrenprint@...> To: "AquaticLife" <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Saturday, October 10, 2009 6:11 PM Subject: [AquaticLife] API's Tap Water Conditioner Many times this product, API's Tap Water Conditioner has been mentioned on this group by Len and a few others. Currently I use "Prime". Reading comments and hype on their web sites most recently I come away thinking "Do both of these products accomplish the same goals, treating heavy metals. Doing the math here I am thinking that the API is far and away a real bargain. For those that have used both, I'd like to hear if any differences exist aside from the obvious---------------price. Bill ------------------------------------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the home page. Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com to receive the digest, which includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com for the No E-Mail option where you will still be able to read messages on the group and post replies. Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com to receive individual e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 43731	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 10/10/2009
Subject: Re: API's Tap Water Conditioner

While they are both dechlor products, Prime is designed more for folks first cycling a tank (with fish, which is not recommended) as it also treats higher levels of ammonia that happens when someone is stuck with cycling with fish. For established tanks with a proper nitrogen cycle happening in their tanks, the use of Prime simply is not needed and is a waste of money. According to the Seachem website, " It will also detoxify any heavy metals found in the tap water at typical concentration levels." so it does have the EDTA chelating compound for treating heavy metals. http://www.seachem.com/Products/product_pages/Prime.html I also believe the website adds a little salesman's fluffery to their product description... "PrimeR is the complete and concentrated conditioner for both fresh and salt water. PrimeR removes chlorine, chloramine and ammonia. PrimeR converts ammonia into a safe, non-toxic form that is readily removed by the tank's biofilter. PrimeR may be used during tank cycling to alleviate ammonia/nitrite toxicity. PrimeR detoxifies nitrite and nitrate, allowing the biofilter to more efficiently remove them. It will also detoxify any heavy metals found in the tap water at typical concentration levels. PrimeR also promotes the production and regeneration of the natural slime coat. PrimeR is non-acidic and will not impact pH. PrimeR will not overactivate skimmers. Use at start-up and whenever adding or replacing water." While I'm certainly not a scientist or chemist... but I did stay at a Holiday Inn Express (LOL)... some of the claims made in the products description seem a little farfetched. For example, it uses the word, "remove" far too often (i.e.-"PrimeR removes chlorine, chloramine and ammonia"). It does not remove things but rather converts them into less toxic forms. "Prime detoxifies nitrite and nitrate, allowing the biolfilter to more efficiently remove them.", is also highly misleading since nearly all freshwater tanks and even most saltwater tanks DO NOT have biofiltration that will remove nitrates. The removal/conversion of nitrates is an advanced step in denitrification that can occur in deep sand beds of some saltwater tanks or with advanced freshwater filter systems, such as trickle filters where anaerobic (low oxygen) bacterial activity can occur as these bacteria are capable of eating nitrates and breaking them down. The bacteria that eat ammonia and nitrite are aerobic (high oxygen) bacteria and our normal filter systems are designed to send lots of oxygenated water through them to keep the aerobic nitrifying bacteria alive. Most freshwater tanks should NOT have or promote the growth of anaerobic bacteria. The reason it does provide some protection for nitrite poisoning.. and also the "regeneration of the natural slime coat" is due to the HIGH salt levels in Prime. This same thing can be accomplished by using a pinch of salt per 10G of water to protect against nitrite poisoning and most fish DO NOT need "regeneration of the natural slime coat" as healthy fish already create a sufficient slime coat and there is no need to add chemicals to a tank to irritate the fishes skin into producing additional slime coat. All this said, yes, Prime is a good product for folks who are having cycling issues due to over cleaning their filters, the use of certain antibiotics or when newbie's get stuck with cycling with fish due to their fish stores not explaining the better ways of cycling a tank... but that is the only time that Prime is needed. Any other time, it's overkill... but I'm sure Seachem appreciates the donations of your hard-earned money. I'll keep my donations for my tithe to my church or other worthy charitable organizations... like the WhatIsLennyDoingThisWeekendFund Foundation. Let me know if you need the address to make a donation to this worthy foundation. ;-) Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of bill 1433 Sent: Saturday, October 10, 2009 6:11 PM To: AquaticLife Subject: [AquaticLife] API's Tap Water Conditioner Many times this product, API's Tap Water Conditioner has been mentioned on this group by Len and a few others. Currently I use "Prime". Reading comments and hype on their web sites most recently I come away thinking "Do both of these products accomplish the same goals, treating heavy metals. Doing the math here I am thinking that the API is far and away a real bargain. For those that have used both, I'd like to hear if any differences exist aside from the obvious---------------price. Bill

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 43732	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 10/10/2009
Subject: Re: API's Tap Water Conditioner

Yes it does, according to Seachem's website. See my previous reply. As far as the residual ammonia from the breakdown of chloramine, this should not be an issue for 99.9% of fish keepers. The EPA guidelines for the use of chloramine would only leave a 0.5ppm level of ammonia in the water and with a 25% PWC, this would only *temporarily* raise the ammonia level to 0.125ppm but since you would be adding this tap water to the tank while the filters are running, this very low level of residual ammonia would immediately be converted through the existing nitrifying bacteria in the tank's filter system(s) so the fish would never be affected by the ammonia. A fully stocked mature tank puts out around 4.0ppm to 5.0ppm of ammonia each day so this added 0.125ppm is only a 2.5% to 3.1% increase in the ammonia level already being created by the tank, which is an inconsequential increase that is easily consumed by the existing nitrifying bacteria. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Dora Smith Sent: Saturday, October 10, 2009 6:25 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] API's Tap Water Conditioner As far as I know, Prime doesn't remove heavy metals, and API doesn't remove ammonia from the breakdown of chloramines. I currently use both. First API, which is the more concentrated chlorine remover, then Prime for what's left. Yours, Dora Smith Austin, TX tiggernut24@... ----- Original Message ----- From: "bill 1433" <warrenprint@...> To: "AquaticLife" <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Saturday, October 10, 2009 6:11 PM Subject: [AquaticLife] API's Tap Water Conditioner Many times this product, API's Tap Water Conditioner has been mentioned on this group by Len and a few others. Currently I use "Prime". Reading comments and hype on their web sites most recently I come away thinking "Do both of these products accomplish the same goals, treating heavy metals. Doing the math here I am thinking that the API is far and away a real bargain. For those that have used both, I'd like to hear if any differences exist aside from the obvious---------------price. Bill

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 43733	From: robbrouse	Date: 10/10/2009
Subject: Re: API's Tap Water Conditioner

I've never done the math on the price break down but I hear they pretty much the same thing. Prime does cost more and I hear it'll break down the ammonia and nitrites, so that might be reason to use it for some. I have been using API for years and it's always seem to do the trick for me nicely. I pay $10 at Petsmart or if I'm making an order for others stuff at the same time I snag it for $5.50 from Big Al's online. They charge a flat shipping rate on most items of $9.99 so it's a waste for me to just buy that and pay more. There is another form I read that 90% of the members swear by prime. I used it a few years back and other than costing more I pretty much got the same effect. If you use it and it does what you need it to and don't mind spending almost double then keep using it. It's a great product but as Lenny and others have pointed out may not be worth the money. --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, bill 1433 <warrenprint@...> wrote: > > > Many times this product, API's Tap Water Conditioner has been mentioned on > this group by Len and a few others. Currently I use "Prime". Reading comments and hype on their web sites most recently I come away thinking "Do both of these products accomplish the same goals, treating heavy metals. Doing the math here I am thinking that the API is far and away a real bargain. > > For those that have used both, I'd like to hear if any differences exist aside from the obvious---------------price. > > Bill >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 43734	From: bill 1433	Date: 10/11/2009
Subject: Re: API's Tap Water Conditioner

Thanks Len, Although all the hype about the nitrate, nitrite and ammonia is nice, I worry the most about the heavy metals part of it all. Like many, I believe it's the "what you can't see (test kits) CAN hurt you". It's the stuff that does not show up with the test kits that I worry about. Bill --- On Sat, 10/10/09, Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@...> wrote: > From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@...> > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] API's Tap Water Conditioner > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Date: Saturday, October 10, 2009, 8:11 PM > While they are both dechlor products, > Prime is designed more for folks first > cycling a tank (with fish, which is not recommended) as it > also treats > higher levels of ammonia that happens when someone is stuck > with cycling > with fish.  For established tanks with a proper > nitrogen cycle happening in > their tanks, the use of Prime simply is not needed and is a > waste of money. > > According to the Seachem website, " It will also detoxify > any heavy metals > found in the tap water at typical concentration levels." so > it does have the > EDTA chelating compound for treating heavy metals. > > http://www.seachem.com/Products/product_pages/Prime.html > > I also believe the website adds a little salesman's > fluffery to their > product description... > > "PrimeR is the complete and concentrated conditioner for > both fresh and salt > water. PrimeR removes chlorine, chloramine and ammonia. > PrimeR converts > ammonia into a safe, non-toxic form that is readily removed > by the tank's > biofilter. PrimeR may be used during tank cycling to > alleviate > ammonia/nitrite toxicity. PrimeR detoxifies nitrite and > nitrate, allowing > the biofilter to more efficiently remove them. It will also > detoxify any > heavy metals found in the tap water at typical > concentration levels. PrimeR > also promotes the production and regeneration of the > natural slime coat. > PrimeR is non-acidic and will not impact pH. PrimeR will > not overactivate > skimmers. Use at start-up and whenever adding or replacing > water." > > While I'm certainly not a scientist or chemist... but I did > stay at a > Holiday Inn Express (LOL)... some of the claims made in the > products > description seem a little farfetched.  For example, it > uses the word, > "remove" far too often (i.e.-"PrimeR removes chlorine, > chloramine and > ammonia").  It does not remove things but rather > converts them into less > toxic forms.  "Prime detoxifies nitrite and nitrate, > allowing the biolfilter > to more efficiently remove them.", is also highly > misleading since nearly > all freshwater tanks and even most saltwater tanks DO NOT > have biofiltration > that will remove nitrates.  The removal/conversion of > nitrates is an > advanced step in denitrification that can occur in deep > sand beds of some > saltwater tanks or with advanced freshwater filter systems, > such as trickle > filters where anaerobic (low oxygen) bacterial activity can > occur as these > bacteria are capable of eating nitrates and breaking them > down.  The > bacteria that eat ammonia and nitrite are aerobic (high > oxygen) bacteria and > our normal filter systems are designed to send lots of > oxygenated water > through them to keep the aerobic nitrifying bacteria > alive.  Most freshwater > tanks should NOT have or promote the growth of anaerobic > bacteria. > > The reason it does provide some protection for nitrite > poisoning.. and also > the "regeneration of the natural slime coat" is due to the > HIGH salt levels > in Prime.  This same thing can be accomplished by > using a pinch of salt per > 10G of water to protect against nitrite poisoning and most > fish DO NOT need > "regeneration of the natural slime coat" as healthy fish > already create a > sufficient slime coat and there is no need to add chemicals > to a tank to > irritate the fishes skin into producing additional slime > coat. > > All this said, yes, Prime is a good product for folks who > are having cycling > issues due to over cleaning their filters, the use of > certain antibiotics or > when newbie's get stuck with cycling with fish due to their > fish stores not > explaining the better ways of cycling a tank... but that is > the only time > that Prime is needed.  Any other time, it's > overkill... but I'm sure Seachem > appreciates the donations of your hard-earned money.  > I'll keep my donations > for my tithe to my church or other worthy charitable > organizations... like > the WhatIsLennyDoingThisWeekendFund Foundation.  Let > me know if you need the > address to make a donation to this worthy foundation. ;-) > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed > on the right > side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives > by Year, Month) > > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] > On > Behalf Of bill 1433 > Sent: Saturday, October 10, 2009 6:11 PM > To: AquaticLife > Subject: [AquaticLife] API's Tap Water Conditioner > > > Many times this product, API's Tap Water Conditioner has > been mentioned on > this group by Len and a few others.  Currently I use > "Prime".  Reading > comments and hype on their web sites most recently I come > away thinking "Do > both of these products accomplish the same goals, treating > heavy metals. > Doing the math here I am thinking that the API is far and > away a real > bargain. > > For those that have used both, I'd like to hear if any > differences exist > aside from the obvious---------------price. > > Bill > > > > > ------------------------------------ > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when > replying, Thank You. > ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> > ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> > PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is > NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of > the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new > subject (was re: old subject)" <- > <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. > , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. > > If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of > unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by > clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the home page.  > > Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com > to receive the digest, which includes up to 25 posts at a > time in a single email > > Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com > for the No E-Mail option where you will still be able to > read messages on the group and post replies. > > Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com > to receive individual e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links > > >     mailto:AquaticLife-fullfeatured@yahoogroups.com > > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 43735	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 10/11/2009
Subject: Fish Clothing

I was just watching an episode of "Miami Vice", season 3, episode 9: "Baby Blues", and Detective Stan Switek (played by Michael Talbott) wore a shirt with two angel fish on the front left breast and two much larger angel fish on the back. \\Steve//

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 43736	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 10/11/2009
Subject: Re: Fish Clothing

And.... were you wearing your loafers without socks and didn't shave since Friday while enjoying your flashbacks? ;-) Should we address you as \\Sonny// now? LOL That sure was a good show back in the day! Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Steve Szabo Sent: Sunday, October 11, 2009 9:44 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Fish Clothing I was just watching an episode of "Miami Vice", season 3, episode 9: "Baby Blues", and Detective Stan Switek (played by Michael Talbott) wore a shirt with two angel fish on the front left breast and two much larger angel fish on the back. \\Steve//

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 43737	From: Lainey Alexander	Date: 10/11/2009
Subject: Driftwood and tannins

Can anyone steer me to a source for driftwood that will not be too difficult to clean with regard to tannins? I have two pieces from LF stores that I have boiled for a total of ten hours and am getting nowhere. The water is still dark yellow-brown. When I place these into my tank the water really stains. Is there a type of driftwood or a style of driftwood that you can clean more easily? Thank you, Lainey http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 43738	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 10/11/2009
Subject: Re: Fish Clothing

Lenny, Nope. The only reason these episodes are on is because the supposed fairer half here wants to watch them. I keep telling her that Don Johnson is a nothing actor. In the failed comeback, I tell her it was Ceech Marin that made the show, not Don Johnson, as usual he was along for the ride. In the original series it is the guy who played Tubbs propping him up, along with the Ferrari's he is given to drive. \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Lenny V. aka GoldLenny Sent: Sunday, October 11, 2009 12:36 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Fish Clothing And.... were you wearing your loafers without socks and didn't shave since Friday while enjoying your flashbacks? ;-) Should we address you as \\Sonny// now? LOL That sure was a good show back in the day! Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Steve Szabo Sent: Sunday, October 11, 2009 9:44 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Fish Clothing I was just watching an episode of "Miami Vice", season 3, episode 9: "Baby Blues", and Detective Stan Switek (played by Michael Talbott) wore a shirt with two angel fish on the front left breast and two much larger angel fish on the back. \\Steve//

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 43739	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 10/11/2009
Subject: Re: Driftwood and tannins

I have a page on my blog and part of the cleaning suggestions are running your driftwood through your automatic dishwasher... with NO SOAP AND NO RINSE AGENT. You might have to run it a few times on the HOT water, HOT rinse cycle, then soak it to see how it's doing. This is a lot easier than the constant water changes by manually soaking/cleaning. http://goldlenny.blogspot.com/2009/01/driftwood-cleaning-curing-now-why-didn t.html You can also run fresh carbon (or Purigen, which can be cleaned and reused) which will remove the Tannin color from the water while the Driftwood is in your tank. Here's a thread discussing Purigen with photos showing how well Purigen worked on some tannin colored water. http://thegab.org/forum/viewtopic.php?f=8&t=5283 I believe fresh carbon also works pretty good but it has to be trashed and changed every couple of weeks where Purigen will last for weeks and weeks before it has to be cleaned/recharged using household bleach. See my blog article on "Filter Maintenance And Cleaning" for more info on Purigen. There is another species of driftwood, often called Malaysian driftwood, which is a much harder wood, it sinks on it's own and it does not leach as much. It's not as cheap as other driftwoods though. More reading... http://www.cichlid-forum.com/articles/driftwood.php This is the main site for a USA eBay seller of driftwood and they "clean" all their driftwood first and claim that theirs does not leach tannins. From what I can tell, they collect their own driftwood from their own local streams/lakes in Alabama... so you're getting some good Redneck wood! Don't complain if your fish start telling Redneck jokes and chewing tobacco. ;-) http://www.aquariumdriftwood.com/driftwoo.htm Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Lainey Alexander Sent: Sunday, October 11, 2009 10:26 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Driftwood and tannins Can anyone steer me to a source for driftwood that will not be too difficult to clean with regard to tannins? I have two pieces from LF stores that I have boiled for a total of ten hours and am getting nowhere. The water is still dark yellow-brown. When I place these into my tank the water really stains. Is there a type of driftwood or a style of driftwood that you can clean more easily? Thank you, Lainey http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 43740	From: Lainey Alexander	Date: 10/11/2009
Subject: More water questions

Sorry to be such high maintenance, but I have more questions! My tank is fully planted, about five weeks old, ammonia, nitrates, nitrites, phosphates all zero - but the water is cloudy and appears yellow, however in a bucket it has a greenish tinge. I took my driftwood out three days ago, and I know that was turning the water tea-color, but this is very persistant whatever is happening now. Could it be green algae with the above levels at zero? Could it still be the tannins somehow? I did a thirty percent WC yesterday and today, but it's not helping at all. Fish and plants seem excellent but the tank looks ghastly. Thanks thanks thanks. Lainey http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 43741	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 10/11/2009
Subject: Re: More water questions

I'd not worry too much about this, at this stage. Continue with your normal maintenance and see if the coloring slowly dissipates for you. It is not unusual for a new tank to go through several stages, including a cloudiness either from bacteria or algae. There does not seem to be enough food available for algal growth of any great amount, and the yellowish coloring may simply be remnants of tannic acid introduced by your experiments with driftwood. Patience is a virtue of fishkeeping. Immediate reaction to almost any indication that something might be "wrong" often leads to a treatment that is not correct and a worsening of the quality of your tank. Take time to ensure you actually have a problem, and then, if you do, time to properly diagnose it. And treat it. \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Lainey Alexander Sent: Sunday, October 11, 2009 7:28 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] More water questions Sorry to be such high maintenance, but I have more questions! My tank is fully planted, about five weeks old, ammonia, nitrates, nitrites, phosphates all zero - but the water is cloudy and appears yellow, however in a bucket it has a greenish tinge. I took my driftwood out three days ago, and I know that was turning the water tea-color, but this is very persistant whatever is happening now. Could it be green algae with the above levels at zero? Could it still be the tannins somehow? I did a thirty percent WC yesterday and today, but it's not helping at all. Fish and plants seem excellent but the tank looks ghastly. Thanks thanks thanks. Lainey http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 43742	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 10/11/2009
Subject: Re: More water questions

Yes. I wouldn't worry about this either. Are you using carbon or Purigen or other chemical filtration to remove the tannins? Here's a good article that kind of explains everything that a tank's micro-ecology goes through and continues while the tank is active. http://www.americanaquariumproducts.com/Nitrogen_Cycle.html Presuming all of your test results are accurate, I'm wondering if your plants are getting enough food. With 0.0ppm phosphates and 0.0ppm of nitrates, either your tests are not accurate OR your fish and ecology are creating just enough ammonia>nitrite>nitrate and phosphate to feed the plants and not have any left over or they may not be creating enough. If you know another aquarist in your area, have them check your water parameters with their test kit to verify your readings. I would also encourage this since your lab testing showed such different levels for GH and KH than your own test kit. How old is your test kit and what brand? Are you using any kind of added fertilizers for the plants? I know you were or are using CO2 injection and if you have sufficient lighting, then your plants should be growing quite well and using up lots of food (nitrogenous and phosphorous wastes). Many folks that have advanced planted tanks (meaning high lighting and CO2 injection) also have to add fertilizers to their tanks. Here's another good article about planted tanks from the same AmericanAquariumProducts site. They do sell products and occasionally promote them in their articles but the articles are accurate and comprehensive for other information. http://www.americanaquariumproducts.com/AquariumPlants.html Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Steve Szabo Sent: Sunday, October 11, 2009 6:57 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] More water questions I'd not worry too much about this, at this stage. Continue with your normal maintenance and see if the coloring slowly dissipates for you. It is not unusual for a new tank to go through several stages, including a cloudiness either from bacteria or algae. There does not seem to be enough food available for algal growth of any great amount, and the yellowish coloring may simply be remnants of tannic acid introduced by your experiments with driftwood. Patience is a virtue of fishkeeping. Immediate reaction to almost any indication that something might be "wrong" often leads to a treatment that is not correct and a worsening of the quality of your tank. Take time to ensure you actually have a problem, and then, if you do, time to properly diagnose it. And treat it. \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Lainey Alexander Sent: Sunday, October 11, 2009 7:28 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] More water questions Sorry to be such high maintenance, but I have more questions! My tank is fully planted, about five weeks old, ammonia, nitrates, nitrites, phosphates all zero - but the water is cloudy and appears yellow, however in a bucket it has a greenish tinge. I took my driftwood out three days ago, and I know that was turning the water tea-color, but this is very persistant whatever is happening now. Could it be green algae with the above levels at zero? Could it still be the tannins somehow? I did a thirty percent WC yesterday and today, but it's not helping at all. Fish and plants seem excellent but the tank looks ghastly. Thanks thanks thanks. Lainey http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 43743	From: Lainey Alexander	Date: 10/11/2009
Subject: Re: More water questions

I have two different tests that I bought from stores, so I think my tests are OK. They are the ones with the bottles and the test tubes, then there's a card to compare the color to. Mine have consistently been zero since day one. The plants do seem good but I will watch them more carefully. My favorite, the purple cabomba, seems to be taking a nosedive, but it may not like my higher pH. Some of them have grown twelve inches already. I will have to start clipping them. It really looks like tannins from the driftwood, but in a bucket it is greenish, and I would have thought this would go away after two big PWCs. I am not using Purigen but was thinking about sticking a carbon filter in my Eheim for a couple of days. Lainey http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com On Oct 11, 2009, at 8:44 PM, Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > Yes. I wouldn't worry about this either. Are you using carbon or > Purigen > or other chemical filtration to remove the tannins? > > Here's a good article that kind of explains everything that a tank's > micro-ecology goes through and continues while the tank is active. > http://www.americanaquariumproducts.com/Nitrogen_Cycle.html > > Presuming all of your test results are accurate, I'm wondering if your > plants are getting enough food. With 0.0ppm phosphates and 0.0ppm of > nitrates, either your tests are not accurate OR your fish and > ecology are > creating just enough ammonia>nitrite>nitrate and phosphate to feed the > plants and not have any left over or they may not be creating > enough. If > you know another aquarist in your area, have them check your water > parameters with their test kit to verify your readings. I would also > encourage this since your lab testing showed such different levels > for GH > and KH than your own test kit. How old is your test kit and what > brand? > > Are you using any kind of added fertilizers for the plants? > > I know you were or are using CO2 injection and if you have sufficient > lighting, then your plants should be growing quite well and using > up lots of > food (nitrogenous and phosphorous wastes). Many folks that have > advanced > planted tanks (meaning high lighting and CO2 injection) also have > to add > fertilizers to their tanks. Here's another good article about > planted tanks > from the same AmericanAquariumProducts site. They do sell products and > occasionally promote them in their articles but the articles are > accurate > and comprehensive for other information. > http://www.americanaquariumproducts.com/AquariumPlants.html > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the > right > side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, > Month) > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On > Behalf Of Steve Szabo > Sent: Sunday, October 11, 2009 6:57 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] More water questions > > I'd not worry too much about this, at this stage. Continue with > your normal > maintenance and see if the coloring slowly dissipates for you. It > is not > unusual for a new tank to go through several stages, including a > cloudiness > either from bacteria or algae. There does not seem to be enough food > available for algal growth of any great amount, and the yellowish > coloring > may simply be remnants of tannic acid introduced by your > experiments with > driftwood. > > Patience is a virtue of fishkeeping. Immediate reaction to almost any > indication that something might be "wrong" often leads to a > treatment that > is not correct and a worsening of the quality of your tank. Take > time to > ensure you actually have a problem, and then, if you do, time to > properly > diagnose it. And treat it. > > \\Steve// > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] > On Behalf Of Lainey Alexander > Sent: Sunday, October 11, 2009 7:28 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Subject: [AquaticLife] More water questions > > Sorry to be such high maintenance, but I have more questions! > > My tank is fully planted, about five weeks old, ammonia, nitrates, > nitrites, > phosphates all zero - but the water is cloudy and appears yellow, > however in > a bucket it has a greenish tinge. I took my driftwood out three > days ago, > and I know that was turning the water tea-color, but this is very > persistant > whatever is happening now. > Could it be green algae with the above levels at zero? Could it > still be the > tannins somehow? > > I did a thirty percent WC yesterday and today, but it's not helping > at all. > > Fish and plants seem excellent but the tank looks ghastly. > > Thanks thanks thanks. > > Lainey > http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 43744	From: bill 1433	Date: 10/11/2009
Subject: Re: More water questions

Hi Lainey, Sorry I can't help you too much with this one but in reading it over, I have a question for you? Can you tell me what brand test kit your using that will allow for a phosphate test? Your cloudy water could possibly be from "new" tank. When I first set up my 29-gallon I had this problem. As long as are other tests are, as you said, in acceptable ranges I wouldn't worry. My tank cleared by itself in 9 weeks. Although, I have no live plans, I suspect the cycle could be near the same for you. Bacterial boom, how many fish, lighting time, you name it. It should all settle down by itself. You did not say, but I assume you're not having a problem with fish lose? Then don't worry too much. Also I think Lenny and some of other the other "senior" members here will tell you that too much water changing will sometime add to a bacterial boom. Set your self a basic 25% per week water change, monitor as you have been doing and give yourself a break. Bill --- On Sun, 10/11/09, Lainey Alexander <lainealex@...> wrote: > From: Lainey Alexander <lainealex@...> > Subject: [AquaticLife] More water questions > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Date: Sunday, October 11, 2009, 7:28 PM > Sorry to be such high maintenance, > but I have more questions! > > My tank is fully planted, about five weeks old, ammonia, > nitrates,  > nitrites, phosphates all zero - but the water is cloudy and > appears  > yellow, however in a bucket it has a greenish tinge. I took > my  > driftwood out three days ago, and I know that was turning > the water  > tea-color, but this is very persistant whatever is > happening now.  > Could it be green algae with the above levels at zero? > Could it still  > be the tannins somehow? > > I did a thirty percent WC yesterday and today, but it's not > helping  > at all. > > Fish and plants seem excellent but the tank looks ghastly. > > Thanks thanks thanks. > > > Lainey > http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > ------------------------------------ > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when > replying, Thank You. > ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> > ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> > PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is > NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of > the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new > subject (was re: old subject)" <- > <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. > , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. > > If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of > unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by > clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the home page.  > > Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com > to receive the digest, which includes up to 25 posts at a > time in a single email > > Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com > for the No E-Mail option where you will still be able to > read messages on the group and post replies. > > Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com > to receive individual e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links > > >     mailto:AquaticLife-fullfeatured@yahoogroups.com > > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 43745	From: Donna Ransome	Date: 10/11/2009
Subject: Re: More water questions

I purchased a phosphate test from API but it was separate from the master test kit. _____ From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of bill 1433 Sent: Sunday, October 11, 2009 10:47 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] More water questions Hi Lainey, Sorry I can't help you too much with this one but in reading it over, I have a question for you? Can you tell me what brand test kit your using that will allow for a phosphate test? Your cloudy water could possibly be from "new" tank. When I first set up my 29-gallon I had this problem. As long as are other tests are, as you said, in acceptable ranges I wouldn't worry. My tank cleared by itself in 9 weeks. Although, I have no live plans, I suspect the cycle could be near the same for you. Bacterial boom, how many fish, lighting time, you name it. It should all settle down by itself. You did not say, but I assume you're not having a problem with fish lose? Then don't worry too much. Also I think Lenny and some of other the other "senior" members here will tell you that too much water changing will sometime add to a bacterial boom. Set your self a basic 25% per week water change, monitor as you have been doing and give yourself a break. Bill --- On Sun, 10/11/09, Lainey Alexander <lainealex@earthlink <mailto:lainealex%40earthlink.net> .net> wrote: > From: Lainey Alexander <lainealex@earthlink <mailto:lainealex%40earthlink.net> .net> > Subject: [AquaticLife] More water questions > To: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com > Date: Sunday, October 11, 2009, 7:28 PM > Sorry to be such high maintenance, > but I have more questions! > > My tank is fully planted, about five weeks old, ammonia, > nitrates, > nitrites, phosphates all zero - but the water is cloudy and > appears > yellow, however in a bucket it has a greenish tinge. I took > my > driftwood out three days ago, and I know that was turning > the water > tea-color, but this is very persistant whatever is > happening now. > Could it be green algae with the above levels at zero? > Could it still > be the tannins somehow? > > I did a thirty percent WC yesterday and today, but it's not > helping > at all. > > Fish and plants seem excellent but the tank looks ghastly. > > Thanks thanks thanks. > > > Lainey > http://www.grasslan <http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com> dsgouldians.com > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > ------------------------------------ > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when > replying, Thank You. > ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> > ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> > PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is > NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of > the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new > subject (was re: old subject)" <- > <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. > , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. > > If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of > unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by > clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the home page. > > Or e-mail aquaticlife- <mailto:aquaticlife-digest%40yahoogroups.com> digest@yahoogroups.com > to receive the digest, which includes up to 25 posts at a > time in a single email > > Or email aquaticlife- <mailto:aquaticlife-nomail%40yahoogroups.com> nomail@yahoogroups.com > for the No E-Mail option where you will still be able to > read messages on the group and post replies. > > Or email aquaticlife- <mailto:aquaticlife-normal%40yahoogroups.com> normal@yahoogroups.com > to receive individual e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links > > > mailto:AquaticLife- <mailto:AquaticLife-fullfeatured%40yahoogroups.com> fullfeatured@yahoogroups.com > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 43746	From: Lainey Alexander	Date: 10/11/2009
Subject: Re: More water questions

Test kits for ammo, nitrite, nitrate from mars fishcare, phosphate from salifert from Holland:) Lainey http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com On Oct 11, 2009, at 10:47 PM, bill 1433 wrote: > Hi Lainey, > > Sorry I can't help you too much with this one but in reading it > over, I have a question for you? > > Can you tell me what brand test kit your using that will allow for > a phosphate test? > > Your cloudy water could possibly be from "new" tank. When I first > set up my 29-gallon I had this problem. As long as are other tests > are, as you said, in acceptable ranges I wouldn't worry. My tank > cleared by itself in 9 weeks. Although, I have no live plans, I > suspect the cycle could be near the same for you. > > Bacterial boom, how many fish, lighting time, you name it. It > should all settle down by itself. You did not say, but I assume > you're not having a problem with fish lose? Then don't worry too > much. Also I think Lenny and some of other the other "senior" > members here will tell you that too much water changing will > sometime add to a bacterial boom. Set your self a basic 25% per > week water change, monitor as you have been doing and give yourself > a break. > > Bill > > --- On Sun, 10/11/09, Lainey Alexander <lainealex@...> > wrote: > > > From: Lainey Alexander <lainealex@...> > > Subject: [AquaticLife] More water questions > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > Date: Sunday, October 11, 2009, 7:28 PM > > Sorry to be such high maintenance, > > but I have more questions! > > > > My tank is fully planted, about five weeks old, ammonia, > > nitrates, > > nitrites, phosphates all zero - but the water is cloudy and > > appears > > yellow, however in a bucket it has a greenish tinge. I took > > my > > driftwood out three days ago, and I know that was turning > > the water > > tea-color, but this is very persistant whatever is > > happening now. > > Could it be green algae with the above levels at zero? > > Could it still > > be the tannins somehow? > > > > I did a thirty percent WC yesterday and today, but it's not > > helping > > at all. > > > > Fish and plants seem excellent but the tank looks ghastly. > > > > Thanks thanks thanks. > > > > > > Lainey > > http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > > > > > ------------------------------------ > > > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when > > replying, Thank You. > > ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> > > ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> > > PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is > > NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of > > the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new > > subject (was re: old subject)" <- > > <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. > > , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. > > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. > > > > If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of > > unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by > > clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the home page. > > > > Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com > > to receive the digest, which includes up to 25 posts at a > > time in a single email > > > > Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com > > for the No E-Mail option where you will still be able to > > read messages on the group and post replies. > > > > Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com > > to receive individual e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > mailto:AquaticLife-fullfeatured@yahoogroups.com > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 43747	From: jett07002	Date: 10/12/2009
Subject: Re: Driftwood and tannins

I wouldn't worry too much about the tannins. Especially when you are keeping fish from the "black water" regions. Many people use the drift woods to create the "black water" look. The fish from that region seem to like it also. joe t >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 43748	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 10/12/2009
Subject: Re: Driftwood and tannins

Tannins are not harmful to the fish but it can change your tank parameters, so as long as you test often and keep an eye on stuff it should fix itself eventually. If the driftwood is still in the tank (which I think you said you took it out) it will continue to leach out the tannins but will eventually stop. I have not had many problems with my driftwood, I soak it for a week or so in a big rubbermade container from Walmart, and then when it's mostly waterlogged at least I throw it in the dishwasher and run it on sanitizing mode (with no soap or rinse agent, AKA jetdry), I usually wash it a couple times just to be safe and make sure it's good and waterlogged. If it's still not waterlogged enough throw it back into the rubbermade container (with clean water of course) and weigh it down with some clean rocks (which you can also wash in the dishwasher just like the driftwood, or you can boil them if you prefer). If your dishwasher has ever used rinse agent in the past make sure you run it a few times without the rinse agent to make sure there isn't any left over residue inside the dishwasher or rinse agent holder area. The rinse agent will soak into the wood and leach out into your fish tank, and most likely kill a lot of fish ;) Hope that helps, Amber jett07002 wrote: > > > I wouldn't worry too much about the tannins. Especially when you are > keeping fish from the "black water" regions. Many people use the drift > woods to create the "black water" look. The fish from that region seem > to like it also. > > joe t > > > > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 43749	From: Lainey Alexander	Date: 10/12/2009
Subject: Green water continued

Hi again - Today I can clearly see that my tank is having an algae bloom and is very green, getting greener all the time. I still have zero readings for phosphate, nitrate, nitrite and ammonia. Everything I am reading says I have to turn off the lights for several days, but I am not sure my newly planted plants will endure this. I am trying to search planted tank forum but the search isn't working. Does anyone have direct experience of green water in a new tank? Do I need to turn off the lights? Nothing I read seems to indicate that this problem will go away on its own. I don't have the type of cloudiness that seems to be bacterial, mine is really green - looks just awful! Thanks for everything... Lainey [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 43750	From: bill 1433	Date: 10/12/2009
Subject: Re: Green water continued

Hi Lainey, I'm the last to give advice where plants are concerned but I am going to write this as though I were going to do it for myself. You haven't told us how heavily you have the tank planted or if you're using any type of plant-grow products. If this were my tank I would, first, make sure to allow no more than 10 hours of artificial light. If they are getting any natural sunlight at all, calculate how much into your over-all 10 hours per day. Second, I would increase, as long as all your readings are zero, the water changes. By that I mean not the amount but the time. For instance, if you're doing 25% once a week change it to 25% every three or four days. BUT, only if all your test readings remain close to the same that you are getting now. By changing this amount of water you may see some variation but over-all the readings should remain within a tolerable limit. The water changing is important so that the green algae does not get to far ahead of you. If it does, you may wind-up doing another tank teardown. I would not have added the plants so quickly because in doing so you have automatically setup the need for the light to begin with. Formula? New tank + Excessive light for plants added to quickly = Green Algae. Bill --- On Mon, 10/12/09, Lainey Alexander <lainealex@...> wrote: > From: Lainey Alexander <lainealex@...> > Subject: [AquaticLife] Green water continued > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Date: Monday, October 12, 2009, 9:37 PM > Hi again - > > Today I can clearly see that my tank is having an algae > bloom and is  > very green, getting greener all the time. I still have zero > readings  > for phosphate, nitrate, nitrite and ammonia. Everything I > am reading  > says I have to turn off the lights for several days, but I > am not  > sure my newly planted plants will endure this. I am trying > to search  > planted tank forum but the search isn't working. > > Does anyone have direct experience of green water in a new > tank? Do I  > need to turn off the lights? Nothing I read seems to > indicate that  > this problem will go away on its own. > > I don't have the type of cloudiness that seems to be > bacterial, mine  > is really green - looks just awful! > > Thanks for everything... > > Lainey > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > ------------------------------------ > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when > replying, Thank You. > ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> > ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> > PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is > NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of > the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new > subject (was re: old subject)" <- > <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. > , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. > > If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of > unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by > clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the home page.  > > Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com > to receive the digest, which includes up to 25 posts at a > time in a single email > > Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com > for the No E-Mail option where you will still be able to > read messages on the group and post replies. > > Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com > to receive individual e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links > > >     mailto:AquaticLife-fullfeatured@yahoogroups.com > > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 43751	From: Lainey Alexander	Date: 10/12/2009
Subject: Re: Green water continued

PS. I just placed some tank water in a white bowl and I can't tell if it's yellow or green. So maybe it's not green? If it's algae, would it be screaming green in a white bowl? Lainey http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com On Oct 12, 2009, at 9:37 PM, Lainey Alexander wrote: > Hi again - > > Today I can clearly see that my tank is having an algae bloom and is > very green, getting greener all the time. I still have zero readings > for phosphate, nitrate, nitrite and ammonia. Everything I am reading > says I have to turn off the lights for several days, but I am not > sure my newly planted plants will endure this. I am trying to search > planted tank forum but the search isn't working. > > Does anyone have direct experience of green water in a new tank? Do I > need to turn off the lights? Nothing I read seems to indicate that > this problem will go away on its own. > > I don't have the type of cloudiness that seems to be bacterial, mine > is really green - looks just awful! > > Thanks for everything... > > Lainey > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 43752	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 10/12/2009
Subject: Re: Green water continued

OK. Give us more details on your planted tank set up. Algae problems are usually cause when there is too much of an imbalance of the trilogy (lighting, nutrients, CO2). What size tank, how many gallons, measurements (especially how tall)? What kind of lighting (fluorescent, CFL's, other)? How many watts? How long are you running them each day? What kind of substrate did you use? Are you dosing with any kind of fertilizers or other chemicals? This could have been brought on from when you were moving the CO2 injector around and that could have thrown things out of balance.. but since your tank is still pretty new, it's expected to go out of balance a few times until you figure things out. Here's a few long and detailed articles, or pages with a list of articles on planted tanks. I gave you this one a couple of days ago but here it is again since it's a good article. http://www.americanaquariumproducts.com/AquariumPlants.html http://www.csd.net/~cgadd/aqua/articles.htm (all good articles) Things that can go wrong - part I (article from Tropical Fish Hobbyist magazine) http://naturalaquariums.com/plantedtank/0509.html Things that can go wrong - part II (mainly about algae issues) http://naturalaquariums.com/plantedtank/0510.html Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Lainey Alexander Sent: Monday, October 12, 2009 8:38 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Green water continued Hi again - Today I can clearly see that my tank is having an algae bloom and is very green, getting greener all the time. I still have zero readings for phosphate, nitrate, nitrite and ammonia. Everything I am reading says I have to turn off the lights for several days, but I am not sure my newly planted plants will endure this. I am trying to search planted tank forum but the search isn't working. Does anyone have direct experience of green water in a new tank? Do I need to turn off the lights? Nothing I read seems to indicate that this problem will go away on its own. I don't have the type of cloudiness that seems to be bacterial, mine is really green - looks just awful! Thanks for everything... Lainey

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 43753	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 10/12/2009
Subject: Re: Green water continued

Well, if you can tell if it's green or yellowish, then it's not a suspended algae (green water) issue. That stuff can look like pea soup.. but it's really good for fish... especially goldfish and Koi. Is your bucket pure white or an off-white? Another thing you can do is to get a plain white coffee filter and filter tank water through it until you have a build up and then you will be able to see if it's green algae or what color it is. Also see my previous reply and lots of questions. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Lainey Alexander Sent: Monday, October 12, 2009 9:03 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Green water continued PS. I just placed some tank water in a white bowl and I can't tell if it's yellow or green. So maybe it's not green? If it's algae, would it be screaming green in a white bowl? Lainey http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com On Oct 12, 2009, at 9:37 PM, Lainey Alexander wrote: > Hi again - > > Today I can clearly see that my tank is having an algae bloom and is > very green, getting greener all the time. I still have zero readings > for phosphate, nitrate, nitrite and ammonia. Everything I am reading > says I have to turn off the lights for several days, but I am not sure > my newly planted plants will endure this. I am trying to search > planted tank forum but the search isn't working. > > Does anyone have direct experience of green water in a new tank? Do I > need to turn off the lights? Nothing I read seems to indicate that > this problem will go away on its own. > > I don't have the type of cloudiness that seems to be bacterial, mine > is really green - looks just awful! > > Thanks for everything... > > Lainey

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 43754	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 10/12/2009
Subject: Re: Green water continued

Here's a snip from the Part II of the TFH articles that is DEFINITELY applicable in your case. ;-) (START SNIP) Too Much of a Good Thing Sometimes when a small problem like algae comes up, the new hobbyist may tend to panic and try to take drastic measures to fix the problem. This often causes more problems than the algae were to begin with. Remember the key to long term success is to keep a stable healthy environment. Rapid extreme changes should generally be avoided. Review the recommended cures from various sources. Decide which is most likely to logically apply to your aquarium, and then make one change at a time. Wait until there's a real chance to observe results before trying new changes. Be careful to not upset your system and invite an algae outbreak. Don't do a bunch of new things at once. If you trim all your plants down, put on new lights, and add new fertilizers, in the same week, you're going to overload your system. Your plants won't keep up and you'll get blooms of algae and maybe even small invertebrates. Regular maintenance and long term stability are the secret to algae free, or at least nuisance free tanks. Keep your equipment in top shape, do your water changes, and keep your plants trimmed regularly to have your tank looking its best at all times. (END SNIP) Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Lainey Alexander Sent: Monday, October 12, 2009 9:03 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Green water continued PS. I just placed some tank water in a white bowl and I can't tell if it's yellow or green. So maybe it's not green? If it's algae, would it be screaming green in a white bowl? Lainey http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com On Oct 12, 2009, at 9:37 PM, Lainey Alexander wrote: > Hi again - > > Today I can clearly see that my tank is having an algae bloom and is > very green, getting greener all the time. I still have zero readings > for phosphate, nitrate, nitrite and ammonia. Everything I am reading > says I have to turn off the lights for several days, but I am not sure > my newly planted plants will endure this. I am trying to search > planted tank forum but the search isn't working. > > Does anyone have direct experience of green water in a new tank? Do I > need to turn off the lights? Nothing I read seems to indicate that > this problem will go away on its own. > > I don't have the type of cloudiness that seems to be bacterial, mine > is really green - looks just awful! > > Thanks for everything... > > Lainey > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] ------------------------------------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the home page. Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com to receive the digest, which includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com for the No E-Mail option where you will still be able to read messages on the group and post replies. Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com to receive individual e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 43755	From: Lainey Alexander	Date: 10/12/2009
Subject: Re: Green water continued

I will answer questions tomorrow, but for now, the bucket is very pale light green - not good, right? Lainey http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com On Oct 13, 2009, at 1:19 AM, Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > Well, if you can tell if it's green or yellowish, then it's not a > suspended > algae (green water) issue. That stuff can look like pea soup.. but > it's > really good for fish... especially goldfish and Koi. > > Is your bucket pure white or an off-white? > > Another thing you can do is to get a plain white coffee filter and > filter > tank water through it until you have a build up and then you will > be able to > see if it's green algae or what color it is. > > Also see my previous reply and lots of questions. > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the > right > side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, > Month) > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On > Behalf Of Lainey Alexander > Sent: Monday, October 12, 2009 9:03 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Green water continued > > PS. > > I just placed some tank water in a white bowl and I can't tell if it's > yellow or green. So maybe it's not green? If it's algae, would it be > screaming green in a white bowl? > > Lainey > http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com > > On Oct 12, 2009, at 9:37 PM, Lainey Alexander wrote: > > > Hi again - > > > > Today I can clearly see that my tank is having an algae bloom and is > > very green, getting greener all the time. I still have zero readings > > for phosphate, nitrate, nitrite and ammonia. Everything I am reading > > says I have to turn off the lights for several days, but I am not > sure > > my newly planted plants will endure this. I am trying to search > > planted tank forum but the search isn't working. > > > > Does anyone have direct experience of green water in a new tank? > Do I > > need to turn off the lights? Nothing I read seems to indicate that > > this problem will go away on its own. > > > > I don't have the type of cloudiness that seems to be bacterial, mine > > is really green - looks just awful! > > > > Thanks for everything... > > > > Lainey > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 43756	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 10/12/2009
Subject: Re: Green water continued

If you have plant leaves that are decaying.... I think you mentioned at least one plant that wasn't doing very well... this can also cause a slight green tint to the water from the chlorophyll and green pigmentation in the leaves of the plants. Seriously... and I've advised this several times... try running carbon or other chemical filtration if it bothers you that much. I wouldn't jump to the conclusion that it's an algae bloom unless or until we have more information. Once you answer all of our questions about the details of the planted aspect of your tank, we may come up with better ideas. It's very difficult to try and diagnose things without seeing it and even harder without having sufficient information. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Lainey Alexander Sent: Tuesday, October 13, 2009 12:33 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Green water continued I will answer questions tomorrow, but for now, the bucket is very pale light green - not good, right? Lainey http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com On Oct 13, 2009, at 1:19 AM, Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > Well, if you can tell if it's green or yellowish, then it's not a > suspended algae (green water) issue. That stuff can look like pea > soup.. but it's really good for fish... especially goldfish and Koi. > > Is your bucket pure white or an off-white? > > Another thing you can do is to get a plain white coffee filter and > filter tank water through it until you have a build up and then you > will be able to see if it's green algae or what color it is. > > Also see my previous reply and lots of questions. > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles > referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically > under Labels and also under Archives by Year, > Month) > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Lainey Alexander > Sent: Monday, October 12, 2009 9:03 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Green water continued > > PS. > > I just placed some tank water in a white bowl and I can't tell if it's > yellow or green. So maybe it's not green? If it's algae, would it be > screaming green in a white bowl? > > Lainey > http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com > > On Oct 12, 2009, at 9:37 PM, Lainey Alexander wrote: > > > Hi again - > > > > Today I can clearly see that my tank is having an algae bloom and is > > very green, getting greener all the time. I still have zero readings > > for phosphate, nitrate, nitrite and ammonia. Everything I am reading > > says I have to turn off the lights for several days, but I am not > sure > > my newly planted plants will endure this. I am trying to search > > planted tank forum but the search isn't working. > > > > Does anyone have direct experience of green water in a new tank? > Do I > > need to turn off the lights? Nothing I read seems to indicate that > > this problem will go away on its own. > > > > I don't have the type of cloudiness that seems to be bacterial, mine > > is really green - looks just awful! > > > > Thanks for everything... > > > > Lainey

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 43757	From: jan1213@aol.com	Date: 10/13/2009
Subject: Tetra bloated?????

I have a 20 gal freshwater tank and one of my flame tetras is swimming at the top mostly. Looks like mouth is gulping.....in the tank i have 5 flame tetra and 6 albino glowfish....water peramiters are fine...just this one fish is acting like this. Thanks Janis he goes down to the bottom occasionaly Thanks Janis [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 43758	From: creatureproductions	Date: 10/13/2009
Subject: Re: Green water continued

Hello: All you have to really do is cut back on the amount of light the tank receives until the algae bloom in the water comes under control. If the tank is by a window then you're getting double light from both the window and tank lights. Cut the tank lights to 7-8 hours a day and just monitor the plants for signs of stress. Some plants can easily tolerate six hours a day. As the water clears you can play with your day/night cycle until you get a good mix. You can adjust the lights to be on at best times of the day for tank viewing. Also, overfeeding the fish along with too much light can also lead to an algae bloom. Cut back a little on food and just monitor the tank. This will take a few weeks so patience is needed. Just be sure to keep up on the 25% water changes every week. The tannins from the driftwood are a way of life and after a time will balance out but that takes a little while. With a little exzperimenting of day/night cycles you'll find the right balance. Good Luck and...Have a Great Day!!! John --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, Lainey Alexander <lainealex@...> wrote: > > Hi again - > > Today I can clearly see that my tank is having an algae bloom and is > very green, getting greener all the time. I still have zero readings > for phosphate, nitrate, nitrite and ammonia. Everything I am reading > says I have to turn off the lights for several days, but I am not > sure my newly planted plants will endure this. I am trying to search > planted tank forum but the search isn't working. > > Does anyone have direct experience of green water in a new tank? Do I > need to turn off the lights? Nothing I read seems to indicate that > this problem will go away on its own. > > I don't have the type of cloudiness that seems to be bacterial, mine > is really green - looks just awful! > > Thanks for everything... > > Lainey > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 43759	From: gailsugarpants	Date: 10/13/2009
Subject: Re: Green water continued

I have had this problem numerous times. Can you tell us how big your tank is and about how many fish you have in it? I had this problem with my 55 gallon, I had way too many fish in it and a heavy bio-load. So everytime I would slack on my tank maintenance I would get an Algae Bloom. My advice would be similar, be sure to do PWC every couple of days and be sure to vaccum your gravel at least once. On my 55 gallon, I vaccum my gravel and try to pull at least two 3.5 gallon buckets of waste. Since my last experience with an Algae Bloom, I have eliminated a lot of my bioload by taking my Pleco and some other large fish to my local fish store for credit. Since then, I haven't had any problems. Good luck! and let us know the size of your tank and about it's inhabitants :) thanks, Gail --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, Lainey Alexander <lainealex@...> wrote: > > Hi again - > > Today I can clearly see that my tank is having an algae bloom and is > very green, getting greener all the time. I still have zero readings > for phosphate, nitrate, nitrite and ammonia. Everything I am reading > says I have to turn off the lights for several days, but I am not > sure my newly planted plants will endure this. I am trying to search > planted tank forum but the search isn't working. > > Does anyone have direct experience of green water in a new tank? Do I > need to turn off the lights? Nothing I read seems to indicate that > this problem will go away on its own. > > I don't have the type of cloudiness that seems to be bacterial, mine > is really green - looks just awful! > > Thanks for everything... > > Lainey > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 43760	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 10/13/2009
Subject: Re: Green water continued

If it is an algae bloom the water will get VERY green eventually, it will continue to become greener the longer you watch it. BUT if it's an algae bloom that's not a bad thing, it's not harmful to the fish at all, and it only means that you have some sort of excess nutrient in your water that your plants/bacteria weren't able to consume fast enough so the algae grows to consume it, if it runs out of this nutrient it will eventually die off. Do NOT change your water too much, trust me, I learned the hard way trying to get rid of my green water and in the process killed most of my fish from the stressful change in water parameters (pH, nitrates, etc). The best thing to do is to watch it carefully and see if the water gets a darker green to where you almost can't see your fish in the tank, then you definitely have an algae bloom, but don't worry it will eventually fix itself on it's own if you don't overfeed your tank. What fertilizers are you using for your plants besides the CO2? Amber Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > > > If you have plant leaves that are decaying.... I think you mentioned at > least one plant that wasn't doing very well... this can also cause a > slight > green tint to the water from the chlorophyll and green pigmentation in the > leaves of the plants. > > Seriously... and I've advised this several times... try running carbon or > other chemical filtration if it bothers you that much. I wouldn't jump to > the conclusion that it's an algae bloom unless or until we have more > information. > > Once you answer all of our questions about the details of the planted > aspect > of your tank, we may come up with better ideas. It's very difficult to try > and diagnose things without seeing it and even harder without having > sufficient information. > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right > side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On > Behalf Of Lainey Alexander > Sent: Tuesday, October 13, 2009 12:33 AM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Green water continued > > I will answer questions tomorrow, but for now, the bucket is very pale > light > green - not good, right? > > Lainey > http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com <http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com> > > On Oct 13, 2009, at 1:19 AM, Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > > > Well, if you can tell if it's green or yellowish, then it's not a > > suspended algae (green water) issue. That stuff can look like pea > > soup.. but it's really good for fish... especially goldfish and Koi. > > > > Is your bucket pure white or an off-white? > > > > Another thing you can do is to get a plain white coffee filter and > > filter tank water through it until you have a build up and then you > > will be able to see if it's green algae or what color it is. > > > > Also see my previous reply and lots of questions. > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> (Links to any articles > > referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically > > under Labels and also under Archives by Year, > > Month) > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On Behalf Of Lainey Alexander > > Sent: Monday, October 12, 2009 9:03 PM > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Green water continued > > > > PS. > > > > I just placed some tank water in a white bowl and I can't tell if it's > > yellow or green. So maybe it's not green? If it's algae, would it be > > screaming green in a white bowl? > > > > Lainey > > http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com <http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com> > > > > On Oct 12, 2009, at 9:37 PM, Lainey Alexander wrote: > > > > > Hi again - > > > > > > Today I can clearly see that my tank is having an algae bloom and is > > > very green, getting greener all the time. I still have zero readings > > > for phosphate, nitrate, nitrite and ammonia. Everything I am reading > > > says I have to turn off the lights for several days, but I am not > > sure > > > my newly planted plants will endure this. I am trying to search > > > planted tank forum but the search isn't working. > > > > > > Does anyone have direct experience of green water in a new tank? > > Do I > > > need to turn off the lights? Nothing I read seems to indicate that > > > this problem will go away on its own. > > > > > > I don't have the type of cloudiness that seems to be bacterial, mine > > > is really green - looks just awful! > > > > > > Thanks for everything... > > > > > > Lainey > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 43761	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 10/13/2009
Subject: Re: Tetra bloated?????

Tetras get easily bloated if you feed them a lot of flake food or freeze dried foods. Lenny has some great links for constipation on fish. I don't have the links handy and I have to run to work. What do you feed the fish and how often do you feed your fish? Amber jan1213@... wrote: > > > > I have a 20 gal freshwater tank and one of my flame tetras is swimming at > the top mostly. Looks like mouth is gulping.....in the tank i have 5 > flame > tetra and 6 albino glowfish....water peramiters are fine...just this one > fish is acting like this. Thanks Janis he goes down to the bottom > occasionaly Thanks Janis > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 43762	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 10/13/2009
Subject: Re: Tetra bloated?????

I'm not sure this is a constipation issue but there is not enough information to develop a possibly diagnosis yet. Gulping can be a symptom of many things... such as water quality issues, high ammonia or nitrite issues, low O2 levels, etc. (but I don't think these are the problem since the other fish are OK). If all the fish were gulping, then one of these would more likely be the problem. Give us more details about your tank... or better yet, copy/paste this "Sick Fish Questionnaire" from my blog http://goldlenny.blogspot.com/2009/06/sick-fish-questionnaire.html and answer as many questions as possible.. the more info the better. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Amber Berglund Sent: Tuesday, October 13, 2009 10:47 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Tetra bloated????? Tetras get easily bloated if you feed them a lot of flake food or freeze dried foods. Lenny has some great links for constipation on fish. I don't have the links handy and I have to run to work. What do you feed the fish and how often do you feed your fish? Amber jan1213@... wrote: > > > > I have a 20 gal freshwater tank and one of my flame tetras is swimming > at the top mostly. Looks like mouth is gulping.....in the tank i have > 5 flame tetra and 6 albino glowfish....water peramiters are > fine...just this one fish is acting like this. Thanks Janis he goes > down to the bottom occasionaly Thanks Janis >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 43763	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 10/13/2009
Subject: GRR, I hate my electric company!

Okay, so today the power went out for a few hours. My problem lies in the fact that my light fixture no longer works after today's power outage. I emailed aquatic life to see if there's a fuse or something that I need to replace. I tried different outlets to make sure the outlet wasn't bad somehow and it still does not turn on, no lights, no humming, nothing but silence. Thankfully the tank is next to the window and I opened the curtains so the plants can still get light through the day, but I need to get this fixed ASAP and I don't want to have to buy a new light fixture, does anyone have any tips/advice for me?? It is an aquatic life PowerCompact CF light fixture with 4 x 65 watt CFL bulbs and LED moon lights, and a built in timer, very nice light, I love it but I miss it already, LOL. Thanks, Amber

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 43764	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 10/13/2009
Subject: Re: GRR, I hate my electric company!

Is it really Aquatic Life brand? I didn't know the group sold lighting. ;-) The two main things that can go out on a fluorescent light fixture... and I'm presuming CFL's have them also... is the Starter and the Ballast. In old fluorescent fixtures, the Starter was visible and could be twisted out and replaced and after replacing that, then bulbs were checked and last but not least, the Ballast would be changed. Those are really the only working parts on the old fixtures. I do not own and have never opened up a CFL fixture but yours will have more working parts due to the timer(s), etc. The Ballast, when it is going out, will usually start to smell like something is burning and then you have to open up the top of the light fixture to change it out. Do you have spare light bulbs to try first? I was just on the DFS site and they have a brand called AquaLight... is this what you have and you were thinking of the group when you said Aquatic Life? Oops.. never mind... another search of Google found AquaticLife (one word) brand light fixtures. Here's the AquaticLife, LLC, YouTube page with vids. They may have one on diagnosing/repairing your fixture. http://www.youtube.com/user/AquaticLifeLLC This vid is about maintenance and replacement parts on the CFL fixture... presuming this is the brand that you have. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hywkeq3omCM If you don't have your owner's manual, you could probably get a PDF download here... http://www.aquaticlife.com/ Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Amber Berglund Sent: Tuesday, October 13, 2009 5:04 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] GRR, I hate my electric company! Okay, so today the power went out for a few hours. My problem lies in the fact that my light fixture no longer works after today's power outage. I emailed aquatic life to see if there's a fuse or something that I need to replace. I tried different outlets to make sure the outlet wasn't bad somehow and it still does not turn on, no lights, no humming, nothing but silence. Thankfully the tank is next to the window and I opened the curtains so the plants can still get light through the day, but I need to get this fixed ASAP and I don't want to have to buy a new light fixture, does anyone have any tips/advice for me?? It is an aquatic life PowerCompact CF light fixture with 4 x 65 watt CFL bulbs and LED moon lights, and a built in timer, very nice light, I love it but I miss it already, LOL. Thanks, Amber

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 43765	From: toddswoman496861@aim.com	Date: 10/13/2009
Subject: snails

I noticed I was having an algae problem that was getting out of hand so i went and got 3 mystery snails. They were doing good for a while then 2 of them looked like they were in the dormant or sleeping stage. The other day i was looking at the tank and i noticed the 2 that i thought were sleeping that all was left of them was an empty shell. I do have a piece of cuttle bone in the filter to make sure that there is enough calcium. I have guppies and went and gt an algae eating fish. I do have pond snails(not sure what else to call them) they are small. Could the pond snails have eaten the 2 mystery snails? The third one is doing great. Kate Dale [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 43766	From: Deenerz@aol.com	Date: 10/13/2009
Subject: Re: GRR, I hate my electric company!

Something I am guilty of not doing is having a decent surge protector. If a surge hits my place only about half of my gear is somewhat "protected". -Mike PS I also hate my electric company :( -----Original Message----- From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@...> To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Tue, Oct 13, 2009 4:18 pm Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] GRR, I hate my electric company! Is it really Aquatic Life brand? I didn't know the group sold lighting. ;-) The two main things that can go out on a fluorescent light fixture... and I'm presuming CFL's have them also... is the Starter and the Ballast. In old fluorescent fixtures, the Starter was visible and could be twisted out and replaced and after replacing that, then bulbs were checked and last but not least, the Ballast would be changed. Those are really the only working parts on the old fixtures. I do not own and have never opened up a CFL fixture but yours will have more working parts due to the timer(s), etc. The Ballast, when it is going out, will usually start to smell like something is burning and then you have to open up the top of the light fixture to change it out. Do you have spare light bulbs to try first? I was just on the DFS site and they have a brand called AquaLight... is this what you have and you were thinking of the group when you said Aquatic Life? =0 AOops.. never mind... another search of Google found AquaticLife (one word) brand light fixtures. Here's the AquaticLife, LLC, YouTube page with vids. They may have one on diagnosing/repairing your fixture. http://www.youtube.com/user/AquaticLifeLLC This vid is about maintenance and replacement parts on the CFL fixture... presuming this is the brand that you have. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hywkeq3omCM If you don't have your owner's manual, you could probably get a PDF download here... http://www.aquaticlife.com/ Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Amber Berglund Sent: Tuesday, October 13, 2009 5:04 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] GRR, I hate my electric company! Okay, so today the power went out for a few hours. My problem lies in the fact that my light fixture no longer works after today's power outage. I emailed aquatic life to see if there's a fuse or something that I need to replace. I tried different outlets to make sure the outlet wasn't bad somehow and it still does not turn on, no lights, no humming, nothing but silence. Thankfully the tank is next to the window and I opened the curtains so the plants can still get light through the day, but I need to get this fixed ASAP and I don't want to have to buy a new light fixture, does anyone have any tips/advice for me?? It is an aquatic life PowerCompact CF light fixture with 4 x 65 watt CFL bulbs and LED moon lights, and a built in timer, very nice light, I love it but I miss it already, LOL. Thanks, Amber

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 43767	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 10/13/2009
Subject: Re: snails

What are your baseline tap water parameters and tank's parameters for pH, GH and KH? And ammonia, nitrite, nitrate while you're at it. While cuttlebone is a good thing to use if one has soft, acidic water, if you did not use enough to raise your hardness level, then it may not have been enough. Only testing before, during and after would give us the information needed. What kind of algae did you have? While algae eating fish will eat some kinds of algae and some snails will eat some kinds of algae, neither will eat all kings of algae. How long did you have the 3 snails and how long before two died? Were you using any other chemicals or additives in your tank besides a basic dechlor product? What kind of algae eating fish did you get? There are literally dozens of different commonly available species that fall into that category. As far as what ate the dead snails... the answer it probably every living thing in your tank... from the fish to the other snails to the micro-organisms. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of toddswoman496861@... Sent: Tuesday, October 13, 2009 6:56 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] snails I noticed I was having an algae problem that was getting out of hand so i went and got 3 mystery snails. They were doing good for a while then 2 of them looked like they were in the dormant or sleeping stage. The other day i was looking at the tank and i noticed the 2 that i thought were sleeping that all was left of them was an empty shell. I do have a piece of cuttle bone in the filter to make sure that there is enough calcium. I have guppies and went and gt an algae eating fish. I do have pond snails(not sure what else to call them) they are small. Could the pond snails have eaten the 2 mystery snails? The third one is doing great. Kate Dale

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 43768	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 10/13/2009
Subject: Re: GRR, I hate my electric company!

It is sold by Aquaticlife (company site is www.aquaticlife.com). I bought it from marinedepot.com last spring. As far as I am aware CFL lighting does not have a starter unless it's inside the bulb. They do however have a ballast, and that could have blown. Hopefully the customer service with the company will answer my email and have an answer for me ;) LOL. And I've already read the manual (what there actually is of one, LOL), as well as watched the vid, but thank you for pointing all of those out for any future buyers out there, LOL. Will keep looking I guess. Amber Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > > > Is it really Aquatic Life brand? I didn't know the group sold > lighting. ;-) > > The two main things that can go out on a fluorescent light fixture... and > I'm presuming CFL's have them also... is the Starter and the Ballast. In > old fluorescent fixtures, the Starter was visible and could be twisted out > and replaced and after replacing that, then bulbs were checked and > last but > not least, the Ballast would be changed. Those are really the only working > parts on the old fixtures. I do not own and have never opened up a CFL > fixture but yours will have more working parts due to the timer(s), etc. > The Ballast, when it is going out, will usually start to smell like > something is burning and then you have to open up the top of the light > fixture to change it out. > > Do you have spare light bulbs to try first? > > I was just on the DFS site and they have a brand called AquaLight... > is this > what you have and you were thinking of the group when you said Aquatic > Life? > Oops.. never mind... another search of Google found AquaticLife (one word) > brand light fixtures. Here's the AquaticLife, LLC, YouTube page with vids. > They may have one on diagnosing/repairing your fixture. > http://www.youtube.com/user/AquaticLifeLLC > <http://www.youtube.com/user/AquaticLifeLLC> > > This vid is about maintenance and replacement parts on the CFL fixture... > presuming this is the brand that you have. > > http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hywkeq3omCM > <http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hywkeq3omCM> > > If you don't have your owner's manual, you could probably get a PDF > download > here... > http://www.aquaticlife.com/ <http://www.aquaticlife.com/> > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right > side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On > Behalf Of Amber Berglund > Sent: Tuesday, October 13, 2009 5:04 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Subject: [AquaticLife] GRR, I hate my electric company! > > Okay, so today the power went out for a few hours. My problem lies in the > fact that my light fixture no longer works after today's power outage. > I emailed aquatic life to see if there's a fuse or something that I > need to > replace. I tried different outlets to make sure the outlet wasn't bad > somehow and it still does not turn on, no lights, no humming, nothing but > silence. Thankfully the tank is next to the window and I opened the > curtains > so the plants can still get light through the day, but I need to get this > fixed ASAP and I don't want to have to buy a new light fixture, does > anyone > have any tips/advice for me?? > It is an aquatic life PowerCompact CF light fixture with 4 x 65 watt CFL > bulbs and LED moon lights, and a built in timer, very nice light, I > love it > but I miss it already, LOL. > > Thanks, > Amber > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 43769	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 10/13/2009
Subject: Re: snails

Are you feeding the snails? Mystery snails do not eat much algae as adult snails, most of their algae eating time is when they are still very small and young snails. Once they get big they prefer dead/decaying plant matter or leftover fish food. If they are not fed enough they will die from starvation pretty easily. I've killed a couple in my 125 gallon tank because they were looking for food forever and not finding it, so I had to make sure I added extra food for them that all the other fish didn't eat first. Also filter intakes are a big hazard for mystery snails, they crawl onto it looking for yummy leftovers and get stuck to it from the suction and it slowly sucks their foot inside the filter and if you don't turn off the filter and remove the intake and let them sit in a bowl of water or in the tank (if the other fish won't pick on it), and let it remove itself slowly from the intake filter, it take take 4-5 hours if they are badly stuck. Sometimes you have to cut them out too, and even then they don't always recover from this accident either. I have taken to covering ALL of my filters with mesh (like the kind you can buy from a hardware store for window screens), so that nothing can get accidentally sucked inside unless it's really small. This unfortunately has the side effect of needing to be rinsed off every 2-3 days (max) so that it doesn't get plugged up with detritus/plant matter. Amber toddswoman496861@... wrote: > > > > I noticed I was having an algae problem that was getting out of hand > so i went and got 3 mystery snails. They were doing good for a while > then 2 of them looked like they were in the dormant or sleeping stage. > The other day i was looking at the tank and i noticed the 2 that i > thought were sleeping that all was left of them was an empty shell. I > do have a piece of cuttle bone in the filter to make sure that there > is enough calcium. I have guppies and went and gt an algae eating > fish. I do have pond snails(not sure what else to call them) they are > small. Could the pond snails have eaten the 2 mystery snails? The > third one is doing great. > > Kate Dale > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 43770	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 10/13/2009
Subject: Re: snails

Oh and I forgot to say that yes pond/pest snails WILL eat mystery snails, but only if they are dead or lay very still and let themselves be eaten to death with their foot open ;) which I don't see likely, but I have spotted a couple of snails shells and a bunch of pond snails inside the shell and obviously no mystery snail inside anymore, so I know that they will eat the dead bodies fairly fast, and some fish will eat it too (guppies are notorious for trying to eat anything in my tanks, including my hand while I'm trying to clean, LOL). Amber toddswoman496861@... wrote: > > > > I noticed I was having an algae problem that was getting out of hand > so i went and got 3 mystery snails. They were doing good for a while > then 2 of them looked like they were in the dormant or sleeping stage. > The other day i was looking at the tank and i noticed the 2 that i > thought were sleeping that all was left of them was an empty shell. I > do have a piece of cuttle bone in the filter to make sure that there > is enough calcium. I have guppies and went and gt an algae eating > fish. I do have pond snails(not sure what else to call them) they are > small. Could the pond snails have eaten the 2 mystery snails? The > third one is doing great. > > Kate Dale > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 43771	From: Dora Smith	Date: 10/13/2009
Subject: Re: GRR, I hate my electric company!

It could just be the tube is burned out. Yours, Dora Smith Austin, TX tiggernut24@... ----- Original Message ----- From: "Amber Berglund" <arberglund@...> To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Tuesday, October 13, 2009 5:04 PM Subject: [AquaticLife] GRR, I hate my electric company! Okay, so today the power went out for a few hours. My problem lies in the fact that my light fixture no longer works after today's power outage. I emailed aquatic life to see if there's a fuse or something that I need to replace. I tried different outlets to make sure the outlet wasn't bad somehow and it still does not turn on, no lights, no humming, nothing but silence. Thankfully the tank is next to the window and I opened the curtains so the plants can still get light through the day, but I need to get this fixed ASAP and I don't want to have to buy a new light fixture, does anyone have any tips/advice for me?? It is an aquatic life PowerCompact CF light fixture with 4 x 65 watt CFL bulbs and LED moon lights, and a built in timer, very nice light, I love it but I miss it already, LOL. Thanks, Amber ------------------------------------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the home page. Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com to receive the digest, which includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com for the No E-Mail option where you will still be able to read messages on the group and post replies. Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com to receive individual e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 43772	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 10/13/2009
Subject: Re: GRR, I hate my electric company!

There are no lights on the unit (it has an LED display on it) and it doesn't even turn on, nor do the fans, so it can't be the bulbs I would think, seems like it would at least light up on the LED display and show the clock. Amber Dora Smith wrote: > > > It could just be the tube is burned out. > > Yours, > Dora Smith > Austin, TX > tiggernut24@... <mailto:tiggernut24%40yahoo.com> > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Amber Berglund" <arberglund@... > <mailto:arberglund%40gmail.com>> > To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>> > Sent: Tuesday, October 13, 2009 5:04 PM > Subject: [AquaticLife] GRR, I hate my electric company! > > Okay, so today the power went out for a few hours. My problem lies in > the fact that my light fixture no longer works after today's power outage. > I emailed aquatic life to see if there's a fuse or something that I need > to replace. I tried different outlets to make sure the outlet wasn't bad > somehow and it still does not turn on, no lights, no humming, nothing > but silence. Thankfully the tank is next to the window and I opened the > curtains so the plants can still get light through the day, but I need > to get this fixed ASAP and I don't want to have to buy a new light > fixture, does anyone have any tips/advice for me?? > It is an aquatic life PowerCompact CF light fixture with 4 x 65 watt CFL > bulbs and LED moon lights, and a built in timer, very nice light, I love > it but I miss it already, LOL. > > Thanks, > Amber > > ------------------------------------ > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. > ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> > PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT > important to > the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the > SUBJECT > LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- > <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. > > If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of unsubscribing, > you > can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My Membership" on > the > home page. > > Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:aquaticlife-digest%40yahoogroups.com> to receive the digest, > which > includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email > > Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:aquaticlife-nomail%40yahoogroups.com> for the No E-Mail option > where > you will still be able to read messages on the group and post replies. > > Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:aquaticlife-normal%40yahoogroups.com> to receive individual > e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 43773	From: kuradi8	Date: 10/13/2009
Subject: Re: GRR, I hate my electric company!

BUMMER! Same thing happened to me a few months ago due to a lightning strike. Mine didn't have a fuse. And the ballast seemed to have been molded into the plastic. But yours is a much fancier unit so it might be more repairable. I wound up having to buy a replacement -- cheap on ebay. And a surge protector too. ~Kai Still not a spammer. :o) Just lurking cos my tank is doing fine. --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, Amber Berglund <arberglund@...> wrote: > > Okay, so today the power went out for a few hours. My problem lies in > the fact that my light fixture no longer works after today's power outage. > I emailed aquatic life to see if there's a fuse or something that I need > to replace. I tried different outlets to make sure the outlet wasn't bad > somehow and it still does not turn on, no lights, no humming, nothing > but silence. Thankfully the tank is next to the window and I opened the > curtains so the plants can still get light through the day, but I need > to get this fixed ASAP and I don't want to have to buy a new light > fixture, does anyone have any tips/advice for me?? > It is an aquatic life PowerCompact CF light fixture with 4 x 65 watt CFL > bulbs and LED moon lights, and a built in timer, very nice light, I love > it but I miss it already, LOL. > > Thanks, > Amber >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 43774	From: creatureproductions	Date: 10/13/2009
Subject: Re: GRR, I hate my electric company!

Hello: Take the light to a store. They'll tell you if it's a starter, ballast, oe needs to be replaced. Most stores seem to be honest about it. Good Luck!!! John --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, Amber Berglund <arberglund@...> wrote: > > Okay, so today the power went out for a few hours. My problem lies in > the fact that my light fixture no longer works after today's power outage. > I emailed aquatic life to see if there's a fuse or something that I need > to replace. I tried different outlets to make sure the outlet wasn't bad > somehow and it still does not turn on, no lights, no humming, nothing > but silence. Thankfully the tank is next to the window and I opened the > curtains so the plants can still get light through the day, but I need > to get this fixed ASAP and I don't want to have to buy a new light > fixture, does anyone have any tips/advice for me?? > It is an aquatic life PowerCompact CF light fixture with 4 x 65 watt CFL > bulbs and LED moon lights, and a built in timer, very nice light, I love > it but I miss it already, LOL. > > Thanks, > Amber >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 43775	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 10/13/2009
Subject: Re: GRR, I hate my electric company!

I'm thinking, after looking at that video on YouTube, that it's likely and hopefully just the transformer which is a step-down power supply to the fans and timer units. If you or hubby or a neighbor is electrically handy, you could unplug the timer unit and by-pass it with direct 120V current to the ballasts which should turn the lights on. Leave the top plate off of the fixture since the fans will not be running either. Also, if and once you open up that top plate, you may see evidence of something that is burned and that would further diagnose the problem. Hopefully it's only the little transformer since they are cheap. If it's the timer that burned out, then you would have to decide whether to replace that, depending on the cost... or just put in a manual on/off switch for the lights and LED's and turn the lights on and off the old fashioned way... or spend $5.00 on a timer that plugs into the wall outlet. Another thing is that there could be an internal fuse that blew out so check that out with the manufacturers. Like Mike said, you might want to put everything on a decent surge protected power strip... around $20.00... or even a UPS battery back up like used for computers (UPS = Uninterruptable Power Supply.... not your competition. LOL). You could plug one filter system into the battery backup and everything else into the other outlets that are surge protected but not powered by the battery. This would protect them and keep the filter running for an hour or more, depending on the size of the UPS unit. Smaller ones with around 650W of back-up power cost as little as $50.00. You can also find BIG 1000W+ units being given away for free that need new batteries and the batteries cost $30.00 to $60.00. I picked up two of these BIG APC 1200W units off of a Craigslist Ad in the FREE stuff section. I've yet to buy the new batteries for them but it's on my to-do list. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Amber Berglund Sent: Tuesday, October 13, 2009 8:26 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] GRR, I hate my electric company! There are no lights on the unit (it has an LED display on it) and it doesn't even turn on, nor do the fans, so it can't be the bulbs I would think, seems like it would at least light up on the LED display and show the clock. Amber Dora Smith wrote: > > > It could just be the tube is burned out. > > Yours, > Dora Smith > Austin, TX > tiggernut24@... <mailto:tiggernut24%40yahoo.com> > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Amber Berglund" <arberglund@... > <mailto:arberglund%40gmail.com>> > To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>> > Sent: Tuesday, October 13, 2009 5:04 PM > Subject: [AquaticLife] GRR, I hate my electric company! > > Okay, so today the power went out for a few hours. My problem lies in > the fact that my light fixture no longer works after today's power outage. > I emailed aquatic life to see if there's a fuse or something that I > need to replace. I tried different outlets to make sure the outlet > wasn't bad somehow and it still does not turn on, no lights, no > humming, nothing but silence. Thankfully the tank is next to the > window and I opened the curtains so the plants can still get light > through the day, but I need to get this fixed ASAP and I don't want to > have to buy a new light fixture, does anyone have any tips/advice for me?? > It is an aquatic life PowerCompact CF light fixture with 4 x 65 watt > CFL bulbs and LED moon lights, and a built in timer, very nice light, > I love it but I miss it already, LOL. > > Thanks, > Amber

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 43776	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 10/13/2009
Subject: Re: GRR, I hate my electric company!

John, I think you're kind of new out here so you may not realize it yet but Amber lives on an island up in Alaska... bigger than Gilligan's Island but not a BIG city either so her options aren't the same as for the rest of us. But there certainly could be a lighting center or the lighting department at a BIG BOX home repair center that might have a knowledgeable person. I think once she opens up the top of the light fixture, the problem will probably present itself with something that shows burn damage. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of creatureproductions Sent: Tuesday, October 13, 2009 9:19 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: GRR, I hate my electric company! Hello: Take the light to a store. They'll tell you if it's a starter, ballast, oe needs to be replaced. Most stores seem to be honest about it. Good Luck!!! John --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, Amber Berglund <arberglund@...> wrote: > > Okay, so today the power went out for a few hours. My problem lies in > the fact that my light fixture no longer works after today's power outage. > I emailed aquatic life to see if there's a fuse or something that I > need to replace. I tried different outlets to make sure the outlet > wasn't bad somehow and it still does not turn on, no lights, no > humming, nothing but silence. Thankfully the tank is next to the > window and I opened the curtains so the plants can still get light > through the day, but I need to get this fixed ASAP and I don't want to > have to buy a new light fixture, does anyone have any tips/advice for me?? > It is an aquatic life PowerCompact CF light fixture with 4 x 65 watt > CFL bulbs and LED moon lights, and a built in timer, very nice light, > I love it but I miss it already, LOL. > > Thanks, > Amber >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 43777	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 10/13/2009
Subject: Re: GRR, I hate my electric company!

Sadly I have every other fish tank/accessory plugged into surge protectors and power strips, I thought that the light was on the surge protector but when I looked it turned out that it was moved to another outlet entirely without a surge protector/UPS. I'll have to go pick up another UPS or surge protector at least from walmart, if/when I get the light fixed. I'm still waiting to hear back from the manufacturers. I would take the light to a store to have them check it, but I'm not sure where to even start, I'm on an island with very few stores on it, with my luck no one would know what to do with it besides plug it in, LOL. Hubby is going to take it apart and see if there's a bad fuse or something, he's better with electricity than I am ;) LOL. Amber Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > > > I'm thinking, after looking at that video on YouTube, that it's likely and > hopefully just the transformer which is a step-down power supply to > the fans > and timer units. If you or hubby or a neighbor is electrically handy, you > could unplug the timer unit and by-pass it with direct 120V current to the > ballasts which should turn the lights on. Leave the top plate off of the > fixture since the fans will not be running either. Also, if and once you > open up that top plate, you may see evidence of something that is > burned and > that would further diagnose the problem. Hopefully it's only the little > transformer since they are cheap. If it's the timer that burned out, then > you would have to decide whether to replace that, depending on the cost... > or just put in a manual on/off switch for the lights and LED's and > turn the > lights on and off the old fashioned way... or spend $5.00 on a timer that > plugs into the wall outlet. Another thing is that there could be an > internal fuse that blew out so check that out with the manufacturers. > > Like Mike said, you might want to put everything on a decent surge > protected > power strip... around $20.00... or even a UPS battery back up like > used for > computers (UPS = Uninterruptable Power Supply.... not your competition. > LOL). You could plug one filter system into the battery backup and > everything else into the other outlets that are surge protected but not > powered by the battery. This would protect them and keep the filter > running > for an hour or more, depending on the size of the UPS unit. Smaller ones > with around 650W of back-up power cost as little as $50.00. You can also > find BIG 1000W+ units being given away for free that need new > batteries and > the batteries cost $30.00 to $60.00. I picked up two of these BIG APC > 1200W > units off of a Craigslist Ad in the FREE stuff section. I've yet to > buy the > new batteries for them but it's on my to-do list. > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right > side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On > Behalf Of Amber Berglund > Sent: Tuesday, October 13, 2009 8:26 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] GRR, I hate my electric company! > > There are no lights on the unit (it has an LED display on it) and it > doesn't > even turn on, nor do the fans, so it can't be the bulbs I would think, > seems > like it would at least light up on the LED display and show the clock. > > Amber > > Dora Smith wrote: > > > > > > It could just be the tube is burned out. > > > > Yours, > > Dora Smith > > Austin, TX > > tiggernut24@... <mailto:tiggernut24%40yahoo.com> > <mailto:tiggernut24%40yahoo.com> > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: "Amber Berglund" <arberglund@... > <mailto:arberglund%40gmail.com> > > <mailto:arberglund%40gmail.com>> > > To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>> > > Sent: Tuesday, October 13, 2009 5:04 PM > > Subject: [AquaticLife] GRR, I hate my electric company! > > > > Okay, so today the power went out for a few hours. My problem lies in > > the fact that my light fixture no longer works after today's power > outage. > > I emailed aquatic life to see if there's a fuse or something that I > > need to replace. I tried different outlets to make sure the outlet > > wasn't bad somehow and it still does not turn on, no lights, no > > humming, nothing but silence. Thankfully the tank is next to the > > window and I opened the curtains so the plants can still get light > > through the day, but I need to get this fixed ASAP and I don't want to > > have to buy a new light fixture, does anyone have any tips/advice > for me?? > > It is an aquatic life PowerCompact CF light fixture with 4 x 65 watt > > CFL bulbs and LED moon lights, and a built in timer, very nice light, > > I love it but I miss it already, LOL. > > > > Thanks, > > Amber > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 43778	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 10/13/2009
Subject: Re: GRR, I hate my electric company!

Wait, how do _you_ know it's bigger than Gilligan's Island, did you get a special invite one day to take a three hour tour? ;) LOL Amber Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > > > John, > > I think you're kind of new out here so you may not realize it yet but > Amber > lives on an island up in Alaska... bigger than Gilligan's Island but not a > BIG city either so her options aren't the same as for the rest of us. But > there certainly could be a lighting center or the lighting department at a > BIG BOX home repair center that might have a knowledgeable person. I think > once she opens up the top of the light fixture, the problem will probably > present itself with something that shows burn damage. > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right > side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) > > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On > Behalf Of creatureproductions > Sent: Tuesday, October 13, 2009 9:19 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: GRR, I hate my electric company! > > Hello: > Take the light to a store. They'll tell you if it's a starter, ballast, > oe needs to be replaced. Most stores seem to be honest about it. > Good Luck!!! > John > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>, Amber Berglund > <arberglund@...> wrote: > > > > Okay, so today the power went out for a few hours. My problem lies in > > the fact that my light fixture no longer works after today's power > outage. > > I emailed aquatic life to see if there's a fuse or something that I > > need to replace. I tried different outlets to make sure the outlet > > wasn't bad somehow and it still does not turn on, no lights, no > > humming, nothing but silence. Thankfully the tank is next to the > > window and I opened the curtains so the plants can still get light > > through the day, but I need to get this fixed ASAP and I don't want to > > have to buy a new light fixture, does anyone have any tips/advice > for me?? > > It is an aquatic life PowerCompact CF light fixture with 4 x 65 watt > > CFL bulbs and LED moon lights, and a built in timer, very nice light, > > I love it but I miss it already, LOL. > > > > Thanks, > > Amber > > > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 43779	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 10/13/2009
Subject: Re: GRR, I hate my electric company!

Nope. I Google Earth'ed you a while back when we were talking about your island. LOL I also flew over to that volcano across the bay to check that area out too. I haven't been on Google Earth the past couple of weeks but I hear that new satellite they launched last week is going to give even better imaging to Google Earth and Google Maps. They might even have the street labels better for your island so the international airport doesn't look like a dirt road and a helipad like it did the last time I flew over your area.... with Google Earth. Hopefully, with that new satellite, I might finally be able to check out my bikini clad neighbor babe with the 12' solid vinyl fence. ;-) Dang... what ever happened to real wood with knot holes. LOL Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Amber Berglund Sent: Tuesday, October 13, 2009 10:44 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: GRR, I hate my electric company! Wait, how do _you_ know it's bigger than Gilligan's Island, did you get a special invite one day to take a three hour tour? ;) LOL Amber Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > > > John, > > I think you're kind of new out here so you may not realize it yet but > Amber lives on an island up in Alaska... bigger than Gilligan's Island > but not a BIG city either so her options aren't the same as for the > rest of us. But there certainly could be a lighting center or the > lighting department at a BIG BOX home repair center that might have a > knowledgeable person. I think once she opens up the top of the light > fixture, the problem will probably present itself with something that > shows burn damage. > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> (Links to any articles referenced in > above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels > and also under Archives by Year, Month) > > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On Behalf Of > creatureproductions > Sent: Tuesday, October 13, 2009 9:19 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: GRR, I hate my electric company! > > Hello: > Take the light to a store. They'll tell you if it's a starter, > ballast, oe needs to be replaced. Most stores seem to be honest about it. > Good Luck!!! > John > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>, Amber Berglund > <arberglund@...> wrote: > > > > Okay, so today the power went out for a few hours. My problem lies > > in the fact that my light fixture no longer works after today's > > power > outage. > > I emailed aquatic life to see if there's a fuse or something that I > > need to replace. I tried different outlets to make sure the outlet > > wasn't bad somehow and it still does not turn on, no lights, no > > humming, nothing but silence. Thankfully the tank is next to the > > window and I opened the curtains so the plants can still get light > > through the day, but I need to get this fixed ASAP and I don't want > > to have to buy a new light fixture, does anyone have any tips/advice > for me?? > > It is an aquatic life PowerCompact CF light fixture with 4 x 65 watt > > CFL bulbs and LED moon lights, and a built in timer, very nice > > light, I love it but I miss it already, LOL. > > > > Thanks, > > Amber

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 43780	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 10/13/2009
Subject: Re: GRR, I hate my electric company!

Yeah but I'm still wondering how you know how big Gilligan's Island was ;) LOL And y'know that satellite pic of the airport isn't exactly far off ;) It's not a dirt road, but it's only 1 road and a large parking area for smaller planes. We have 1 whole gate *gasp* and you even walk down a covered walkway up to the plane like at other "big" airports rather than walking across the airport tarmac and up some stairs to board the plane, LOL. Oh yeah and we have an xray machine at our security checkpoint, but I think that's required now days since 9/11. Amber Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > > > Nope. I Google Earth'ed you a while back when we were talking about your > island. LOL I also flew over to that volcano across the bay to check that > area out too. I haven't been on Google Earth the past couple of weeks > but I > hear that new satellite they launched last week is going to give even > better > imaging to Google Earth and Google Maps. They might even have the street > labels better for your island so the international airport doesn't > look like > a dirt road and a helipad like it did the last time I flew over your > area.... with Google Earth. Hopefully, with that new satellite, I might > finally be able to check out my bikini clad neighbor babe with the 12' > solid > vinyl fence. ;-) Dang... what ever happened to real wood with knot holes. > LOL > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right > side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) > > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On > Behalf Of Amber Berglund > Sent: Tuesday, October 13, 2009 10:44 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: GRR, I hate my electric company! > > Wait, how do _you_ know it's bigger than Gilligan's Island, did you get a > special invite one day to take a three hour tour? ;) LOL > > Amber > > Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > > > > > > John, > > > > I think you're kind of new out here so you may not realize it yet but > > Amber lives on an island up in Alaska... bigger than Gilligan's Island > > but not a BIG city either so her options aren't the same as for the > > rest of us. But there certainly could be a lighting center or the > > lighting department at a BIG BOX home repair center that might have a > > knowledgeable person. I think once she opens up the top of the light > > fixture, the problem will probably present itself with something that > > shows burn damage. > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>> > (Links to any articles referenced in > > above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels > > and also under Archives by Year, Month) > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On Behalf Of > > creatureproductions > > Sent: Tuesday, October 13, 2009 9:19 PM > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: GRR, I hate my electric company! > > > > Hello: > > Take the light to a store. They'll tell you if it's a starter, > > ballast, oe needs to be replaced. Most stores seem to be honest > about it. > > Good Luck!!! > > John > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>, Amber Berglund > > <arberglund@...> wrote: > > > > > > Okay, so today the power went out for a few hours. My problem lies > > > in the fact that my light fixture no longer works after today's > > > power > > outage. > > > I emailed aquatic life to see if there's a fuse or something that I > > > need to replace. I tried different outlets to make sure the outlet > > > wasn't bad somehow and it still does not turn on, no lights, no > > > humming, nothing but silence. Thankfully the tank is next to the > > > window and I opened the curtains so the plants can still get light > > > through the day, but I need to get this fixed ASAP and I don't want > > > to have to buy a new light fixture, does anyone have any tips/advice > > for me?? > > > It is an aquatic life PowerCompact CF light fixture with 4 x 65 watt > > > CFL bulbs and LED moon lights, and a built in timer, very nice > > > light, I love it but I miss it already, LOL. > > > > > > Thanks, > > > Amber > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 43781	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 10/14/2009
Subject: Re: GRR, I hate my electric company!

OOHHH... well, I know all about Gilligan's Island because I watched all the reruns... oh yeah... and from this site too. http://www.gilligansisle.com/coconut.html and http://www.gilligansisle.com/tour.html I thought y'all had two gates at the Ketchikan International Airport? At least there were two painted outlines for big planes that showed up in the Google Earth fly-over, showing the parking places for two planes. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Amber Berglund Sent: Tuesday, October 13, 2009 11:09 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: GRR, I hate my electric company! Yeah but I'm still wondering how you know how big Gilligan's Island was ;) LOL And y'know that satellite pic of the airport isn't exactly far off ;) It's not a dirt road, but it's only 1 road and a large parking area for smaller planes. We have 1 whole gate *gasp* and you even walk down a covered walkway up to the plane like at other "big" airports rather than walking across the airport tarmac and up some stairs to board the plane, LOL. Oh yeah and we have an xray machine at our security checkpoint, but I think that's required now days since 9/11. Amber Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > > > Nope. I Google Earth'ed you a while back when we were talking about > your island. LOL I also flew over to that volcano across the bay to > check that area out too. I haven't been on Google Earth the past > couple of weeks but I hear that new satellite they launched last week > is going to give even better imaging to Google Earth and Google Maps. > They might even have the street labels better for your island so the > international airport doesn't look like a dirt road and a helipad like > it did the last time I flew over your area.... with Google Earth. > Hopefully, with that new satellite, I might finally be able to check > out my bikini clad neighbor babe with the 12' > solid > vinyl fence. ;-) Dang... what ever happened to real wood with knot holes. > LOL > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> (Links to any articles referenced in > above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels > and also under Archives by Year, Month) > > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On Behalf Of Amber Berglund > Sent: Tuesday, October 13, 2009 10:44 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: GRR, I hate my electric company! > > Wait, how do _you_ know it's bigger than Gilligan's Island, did you > get a special invite one day to take a three hour tour? ;) LOL > > Amber > > Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > > > > > > John, > > > > I think you're kind of new out here so you may not realize it yet > > but Amber lives on an island up in Alaska... bigger than Gilligan's > > Island but not a BIG city either so her options aren't the same as > > for the rest of us. But there certainly could be a lighting center > > or the lighting department at a BIG BOX home repair center that > > might have a knowledgeable person. I think once she opens up the top > > of the light fixture, the problem will probably present itself with > > something that shows burn damage. > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>> > (Links to any articles referenced in > > above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under > > Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On Behalf Of > > creatureproductions > > Sent: Tuesday, October 13, 2009 9:19 PM > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: GRR, I hate my electric company! > > > > Hello: > > Take the light to a store. They'll tell you if it's a starter, > > ballast, oe needs to be replaced. Most stores seem to be honest > about it. > > Good Luck!!! > > John > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>, Amber Berglund > > <arberglund@...> wrote: > > > > > > Okay, so today the power went out for a few hours. My problem lies > > > in the fact that my light fixture no longer works after today's > > > power > > outage. > > > I emailed aquatic life to see if there's a fuse or something that > > > I need to replace. I tried different outlets to make sure the > > > outlet wasn't bad somehow and it still does not turn on, no > > > lights, no humming, nothing but silence. Thankfully the tank is > > > next to the window and I opened the curtains so the plants can > > > still get light through the day, but I need to get this fixed ASAP > > > and I don't want to have to buy a new light fixture, does anyone > > > have any tips/advice > > for me?? > > > It is an aquatic life PowerCompact CF light fixture with 4 x 65 > > > watt CFL bulbs and LED moon lights, and a built in timer, very > > > nice light, I love it but I miss it already, LOL. > > > > > > Thanks, > > > Amber

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 43782	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 10/14/2009
Subject: Re: GRR, I hate my electric company!

there's parking to fit 2 jets, but there's only 1 gate for the regular plane, if 2 happen to land at the same time one has to park out of the way and people have to walk outside on the tarmac to get to the plane... so you're half right ;) LOL. It's a weird airport, people get lost when they travel here because they don't know where they are going, since the airport is on another island ;) LOL. Anyways, hubby didn't get the chance to take the light apart so I'm using the old shoplight I had laying around handy just in case I needed it, it's not as bright as my fancy light with LED moonlights and all that, but it will work for now. I'm still waiting on AquaticLife to get back to me about their light so I can see if I can order whatever has burned out. Amber Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > > > OOHHH... well, I know all about Gilligan's Island because I watched > all the > reruns... oh yeah... and from this site too. > http://www.gilligansisle.com/coconut.html > <http://www.gilligansisle.com/coconut.html> and > http://www.gilligansisle.com/tour.html > <http://www.gilligansisle.com/tour.html> > > I thought y'all had two gates at the Ketchikan International Airport? At > least there were two painted outlines for big planes that showed up in the > Google Earth fly-over, showing the parking places for two planes. > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right > side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On > Behalf Of Amber Berglund > Sent: Tuesday, October 13, 2009 11:09 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: GRR, I hate my electric company! > > Yeah but I'm still wondering how you know how big Gilligan's Island was > ;) LOL > And y'know that satellite pic of the airport isn't exactly far off ;) It's > not a dirt road, but it's only 1 road and a large parking area for smaller > planes. We have 1 whole gate *gasp* and you even walk down a covered > walkway > up to the plane like at other "big" airports rather than walking > across the > airport tarmac and up some stairs to board the plane, LOL. Oh yeah and we > have an xray machine at our security checkpoint, but I think that's > required > now days since 9/11. > > Amber > > Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > > > > > > Nope. I Google Earth'ed you a while back when we were talking about > > your island. LOL I also flew over to that volcano across the bay to > > check that area out too. I haven't been on Google Earth the past > > couple of weeks but I hear that new satellite they launched last week > > is going to give even better imaging to Google Earth and Google Maps. > > They might even have the street labels better for your island so the > > international airport doesn't look like a dirt road and a helipad like > > it did the last time I flew over your area.... with Google Earth. > > Hopefully, with that new satellite, I might finally be able to check > > out my bikini clad neighbor babe with the 12' > > solid > > vinyl fence. ;-) Dang... what ever happened to real wood with knot > holes. > > LOL > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>> > (Links to any articles referenced in > > above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels > > and also under Archives by Year, Month) > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On Behalf Of Amber Berglund > > Sent: Tuesday, October 13, 2009 10:44 PM > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: GRR, I hate my electric company! > > > > Wait, how do _you_ know it's bigger than Gilligan's Island, did you > > get a special invite one day to take a three hour tour? ;) LOL > > > > Amber > > > > Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > > > > > > > > > John, > > > > > > I think you're kind of new out here so you may not realize it yet > > > but Amber lives on an island up in Alaska... bigger than Gilligan's > > > Island but not a BIG city either so her options aren't the same as > > > for the rest of us. But there certainly could be a lighting center > > > or the lighting department at a BIG BOX home repair center that > > > might have a knowledgeable person. I think once she opens up the top > > > of the light fixture, the problem will probably present itself with > > > something that shows burn damage. > > > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>> > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>>> > > (Links to any articles referenced in > > > above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under > > > Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) > > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On Behalf Of > > > creatureproductions > > > Sent: Tuesday, October 13, 2009 9:19 PM > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: GRR, I hate my electric company! > > > > > > Hello: > > > Take the light to a store. They'll tell you if it's a starter, > > > ballast, oe needs to be replaced. Most stores seem to be honest > > about it. > > > Good Luck!!! > > > John > > > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>, Amber Berglund > > > <arberglund@...> wrote: > > > > > > > > Okay, so today the power went out for a few hours. My problem lies > > > > in the fact that my light fixture no longer works after today's > > > > power > > > outage. > > > > I emailed aquatic life to see if there's a fuse or something that > > > > I need to replace. I tried different outlets to make sure the > > > > outlet wasn't bad somehow and it still does not turn on, no > > > > lights, no humming, nothing but silence. Thankfully the tank is > > > > next to the window and I opened the curtains so the plants can > > > > still get light through the day, but I need to get this fixed ASAP > > > > and I don't want to have to buy a new light fixture, does anyone > > > > have any tips/advice > > > for me?? > > > > It is an aquatic life PowerCompact CF light fixture with 4 x 65 > > > > watt CFL bulbs and LED moon lights, and a built in timer, very > > > > nice light, I love it but I miss it already, LOL. > > > > > > > > Thanks, > > > > Amber > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 43783	From: bill 1433	Date: 10/14/2009
Subject: Re: GRR, I hate my electric company!

Len,   I was most interested in your comments about the use of Google Earth.  I have not tried it but would like too. I'm afraid they don't show much in examples of what you could or should see?  Can you send me, off-list, a screen-shot so I can judge for myself if its worth the effort?  Just pick a place of interest. How about Amber's House? <G> Why not?   Bill --- On Tue, 10/13/09, Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@...> wrote: From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@...> Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: GRR, I hate my electric company! To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Date: Tuesday, October 13, 2009, 11:58 PM Nope.  I Google Earth'ed you a while back when we were talking about your island. LOL  I also flew over to that volcano across the bay to check that area out too.  I haven't been on Google Earth the past couple of weeks but I hear that new satellite they launched last week is going to give even better imaging to Google Earth and Google Maps.  They might even have the street labels better for your island so the international airport doesn't look like a dirt road and a helipad like it did the last time I flew over your area.... with Google Earth.  Hopefully, with that new satellite, I might finally be able to check out my bikini clad neighbor babe with the 12' solid vinyl fence. ;-)  Dang... what ever happened to real wood with knot holes. LOL Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Amber Berglund Sent: Tuesday, October 13, 2009 10:44 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: GRR, I hate my electric company! Wait, how do _you_ know it's bigger than Gilligan's Island, did you get a special invite one day to take a three hour tour? ;) LOL Amber Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: >  > > John, > > I think you're kind of new out here so you may not realize it yet but > Amber lives on an island up in Alaska... bigger than Gilligan's Island > but not a BIG city either so her options aren't the same as for the > rest of us. But there certainly could be a lighting center or the > lighting department at a BIG BOX home repair center that might have a > knowledgeable person. I think once she opens up the top of the light > fixture, the problem will probably present itself with something that > shows burn damage. > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> (Links to any articles referenced in > above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels > and also under Archives by Year, Month) > > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On Behalf Of > creatureproductions > Sent: Tuesday, October 13, 2009 9:19 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: GRR, I hate my electric company! > > Hello: > Take the light to a store. They'll tell you if it's a starter, > ballast, oe needs to be replaced. Most stores seem to be honest about it. > Good Luck!!! > John > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>, Amber Berglund > <arberglund@...> wrote: > > > > Okay, so today the power went out for a few hours. My problem lies > > in the fact that my light fixture no longer works after today's > > power > outage. > > I emailed aquatic life to see if there's a fuse or something that I > > need to replace. I tried different outlets to make sure the outlet > > wasn't bad somehow and it still does not turn on, no lights, no > > humming, nothing but silence. Thankfully the tank is next to the > > window and I opened the curtains so the plants can still get light > > through the day, but I need to get this fixed ASAP and I don't want > > to have to buy a new light fixture, does anyone have any tips/advice > for me?? > > It is an aquatic life PowerCompact CF light fixture with 4 x 65 watt > > CFL bulbs and LED moon lights, and a built in timer, very nice > > light, I love it but I miss it already, LOL. > > > > Thanks, > > Amber ------------------------------------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the home page.  Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com to receive the digest, which includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com for the No E-Mail option where you will still be able to read messages on the group and post replies. Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com to receive individual e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 43784	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 10/14/2009
Subject: Re: GRR, I hate my electric company!

If Lenny knows where my house is I may just have to report him as a Stalker ;) LOL. Show him our fancy airport Lenny ;) Amber bill 1433 wrote: > > > Len, > > I was most interested in your comments about the use of > Google Earth. I have not tried it but would like too. > I'm afraid they don't show much in examples of what you could > or should see? Can you send me, off-list, a screen-shot so I can > judge for > myself if its worth the effort? Just pick a place of interest. > How about Amber's House? <G> Why not? > > Bill > > --- On Tue, 10/13/09, Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@... > <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com>> wrote: > > From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@... > <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com>> > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: GRR, I hate my electric company! > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Date: Tuesday, October 13, 2009, 11:58 PM > > Nope. I Google Earth'ed you a while back when we were talking about your > island. LOL I also flew over to that volcano across the bay to check that > area out too. I haven't been on Google Earth the past couple of weeks > but I > hear that new satellite they launched last week is going to give even > better > imaging to Google Earth and Google Maps. They might even have the street > labels better for your island so the international airport doesn't > look like > a dirt road and a helipad like it did the last time I flew over your > area.... with Google Earth. Hopefully, with that new satellite, I might > finally be able to check out my bikini clad neighbor babe with the 12' > solid > vinyl fence. ;-) Dang... what ever happened to real wood with knot holes. > LOL > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right > side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On > Behalf Of Amber Berglund > Sent: Tuesday, October 13, 2009 10:44 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: GRR, I hate my electric company! > > Wait, how do _you_ know it's bigger than Gilligan's Island, did you get a > special invite one day to take a three hour tour? ;) LOL > > Amber > > Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > > > > > > John, > > > > I think you're kind of new out here so you may not realize it yet but > > Amber lives on an island up in Alaska... bigger than Gilligan's Island > > but not a BIG city either so her options aren't the same as for the > > rest of us. But there certainly could be a lighting center or the > > lighting department at a BIG BOX home repair center that might have a > > knowledgeable person. I think once she opens up the top of the light > > fixture, the problem will probably present itself with something that > > shows burn damage. > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>> > (Links to any articles referenced in > > above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels > > and also under Archives by Year, Month) > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On Behalf Of > > creatureproductions > > Sent: Tuesday, October 13, 2009 9:19 PM > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: GRR, I hate my electric company! > > > > Hello: > > Take the light to a store. They'll tell you if it's a starter, > > ballast, oe needs to be replaced. Most stores seem to be honest > about it. > > Good Luck!!! > > John > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>, Amber Berglund > > <arberglund@...> wrote: > > > > > > Okay, so today the power went out for a few hours. My problem lies > > > in the fact that my light fixture no longer works after today's > > > power > > outage. > > > I emailed aquatic life to see if there's a fuse or something that I > > > need to replace. I tried different outlets to make sure the outlet > > > wasn't bad somehow and it still does not turn on, no lights, no > > > humming, nothing but silence. Thankfully the tank is next to the > > > window and I opened the curtains so the plants can still get light > > > through the day, but I need to get this fixed ASAP and I don't want > > > to have to buy a new light fixture, does anyone have any tips/advice > > for me?? > > > It is an aquatic life PowerCompact CF light fixture with 4 x 65 watt > > > CFL bulbs and LED moon lights, and a built in timer, very nice > > > light, I love it but I miss it already, LOL. > > > > > > Thanks, > > > Amber > > ------------------------------------ > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. > ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> > PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT > important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message > MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- > <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. > > If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of unsubscribing, > you can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My > Membership" on the home page. > > Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:aquaticlife-digest%40yahoogroups.com> to receive the digest, > which includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email > > Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:aquaticlife-nomail%40yahoogroups.com> for the No E-Mail option > where you will still be able to read messages on the group and post > replies. > > Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:aquaticlife-normal%40yahoogroups.com> to receive individual > e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 43785	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 10/14/2009
Subject: Re: GRR, I hate my electric company!

Okay, good news the manufacture got back to me about the light fixture, all I had to do was push a button (with a paperclip) on the timer, which reset the timer/clock. It works great again, just have to reset everything ;) LOL Amber bill 1433 wrote: > > > Len, > > I was most interested in your comments about the use of > Google Earth. I have not tried it but would like too. > I'm afraid they don't show much in examples of what you could > or should see? Can you send me, off-list, a screen-shot so I can > judge for > myself if its worth the effort? Just pick a place of interest. > How about Amber's House? <G> Why not? > > Bill > > --- On Tue, 10/13/09, Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@... > <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com>> wrote: > > From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@... > <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com>> > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: GRR, I hate my electric company! > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Date: Tuesday, October 13, 2009, 11:58 PM > > Nope. I Google Earth'ed you a while back when we were talking about your > island. LOL I also flew over to that volcano across the bay to check that > area out too. I haven't been on Google Earth the past couple of weeks > but I > hear that new satellite they launched last week is going to give even > better > imaging to Google Earth and Google Maps. They might even have the street > labels better for your island so the international airport doesn't > look like > a dirt road and a helipad like it did the last time I flew over your > area.... with Google Earth. Hopefully, with that new satellite, I might > finally be able to check out my bikini clad neighbor babe with the 12' > solid > vinyl fence. ;-) Dang... what ever happened to real wood with knot holes. > LOL > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right > side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On > Behalf Of Amber Berglund > Sent: Tuesday, October 13, 2009 10:44 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: GRR, I hate my electric company! > > Wait, how do _you_ know it's bigger than Gilligan's Island, did you get a > special invite one day to take a three hour tour? ;) LOL > > Amber > > Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > > > > > > John, > > > > I think you're kind of new out here so you may not realize it yet but > > Amber lives on an island up in Alaska... bigger than Gilligan's Island > > but not a BIG city either so her options aren't the same as for the > > rest of us. But there certainly could be a lighting center or the > > lighting department at a BIG BOX home repair center that might have a > > knowledgeable person. I think once she opens up the top of the light > > fixture, the problem will probably present itself with something that > > shows burn damage. > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>> > (Links to any articles referenced in > > above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels > > and also under Archives by Year, Month) > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On Behalf Of > > creatureproductions > > Sent: Tuesday, October 13, 2009 9:19 PM > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: GRR, I hate my electric company! > > > > Hello: > > Take the light to a store. They'll tell you if it's a starter, > > ballast, oe needs to be replaced. Most stores seem to be honest > about it. > > Good Luck!!! > > John > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>, Amber Berglund > > <arberglund@...> wrote: > > > > > > Okay, so today the power went out for a few hours. My problem lies > > > in the fact that my light fixture no longer works after today's > > > power > > outage. > > > I emailed aquatic life to see if there's a fuse or something that I > > > need to replace. I tried different outlets to make sure the outlet > > > wasn't bad somehow and it still does not turn on, no lights, no > > > humming, nothing but silence. Thankfully the tank is next to the > > > window and I opened the curtains so the plants can still get light > > > through the day, but I need to get this fixed ASAP and I don't want > > > to have to buy a new light fixture, does anyone have any tips/advice > > for me?? > > > It is an aquatic life PowerCompact CF light fixture with 4 x 65 watt > > > CFL bulbs and LED moon lights, and a built in timer, very nice > > > light, I love it but I miss it already, LOL. > > > > > > Thanks, > > > Amber > > ------------------------------------ > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. > ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> > PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT > important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message > MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- > <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. > > If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of unsubscribing, > you can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My > Membership" on the home page. > > Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:aquaticlife-digest%40yahoogroups.com> to receive the digest, > which includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email > > Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:aquaticlife-nomail%40yahoogroups.com> for the No E-Mail option > where you will still be able to read messages on the group and post > replies. > > Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:aquaticlife-normal%40yahoogroups.com> to receive individual > e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 43786	From: bill 1433	Date: 10/14/2009
Subject: Re: GRR, I hate my electric company!

Thanks Amber! My concerns are in how much or what you're actually going to see and yes, how close what you are seeing is actually accurate. I don't think our "Lenny" is a stalker just that he knew of your exact location up there. Bill --- On Wed, 10/14/09, Amber Berglund <arberglund@...> wrote: > From: Amber Berglund <arberglund@...> > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: GRR, I hate my electric company! > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Date: Wednesday, October 14, 2009, 11:38 AM > If Lenny knows where my house is I > may just have to report him as a > Stalker ;) LOL. > Show him our fancy airport Lenny ;) > > Amber > > bill 1433 wrote: > >  > > > > Len, > >  > > I was most interested in your comments about the use > of > > Google Earth.  I have not tried it but would like > too. > > I'm afraid they don't show much in examples of what > you could > > or should see?  Can you send me, off-list, a > screen-shot so I can > > judge for > > myself if its worth the effort?  Just pick a > place of interest. > > How about Amber's House? <G> Why not? > >  > > Bill > > > > --- On Tue, 10/13/09, Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@... > > > <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com>> wrote: > > > > From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@... > > > <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com>> > > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: GRR, I hate my electric > company! > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > Date: Tuesday, October 13, 2009, 11:58 PM > > > > Nope.  I Google Earth'ed you a while back when we > were talking about your > > island. LOL  I also flew over to that volcano > across the bay to check that > > area out too.  I haven't been on Google Earth the > past couple of weeks > > but I > > hear that new satellite they launched last week is > going to give even > > better > > imaging to Google Earth and Google Maps.  They > might even have the street > > labels better for your island so the international > airport doesn't > > look like > > a dirt road and a helipad like it did the last time I > flew over your > > area.... with Google Earth.  Hopefully, with that > new satellite, I might > > finally be able to check out my bikini clad neighbor > babe with the 12' > > solid > > vinyl fence. ;-)  Dang... what ever happened to > real wood with knot holes. > > LOL > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are > listed on the right > > side, alphabetically under Labels and also under > Archives by Year, Month) > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On > > Behalf Of Amber Berglund > > Sent: Tuesday, October 13, 2009 10:44 PM > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: GRR, I hate my electric > company! > > > > Wait, how do _you_ know it's bigger than Gilligan's > Island, did you get a > > special invite one day to take a three hour tour? ;) > LOL > > > > Amber > > > > Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > > > > > > > > > John, > > > > > > I think you're kind of new out here so you may > not realize it yet but > > > Amber lives on an island up in Alaska... bigger > than Gilligan's Island > > > but not a BIG city either so her options aren't > the same as for the > > > rest of us. But there certainly could be a > lighting center or the > > > lighting department at a BIG BOX home repair > center that might have a > > > knowledgeable person. I think once she opens up > the top of the light > > > fixture, the problem will probably present itself > with something that > > > shows burn damage. > > > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>> > > (Links to any articles referenced in > > > above reply are listed on the right side, > alphabetically under Labels > > > and also under Archives by Year, Month) > > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On > Behalf Of > > > creatureproductions > > > Sent: Tuesday, October 13, 2009 9:19 PM > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: GRR, I hate my > electric company! > > > > > > Hello: > > > Take the light to a store. They'll tell you if > it's a starter, > > > ballast, oe needs to be replaced. Most stores > seem to be honest > > about it. > > > Good Luck!!! > > > John > > > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>, > Amber Berglund > > > <arberglund@...> wrote: > > > > > > > > Okay, so today the power went out for a few > hours. My problem lies > > > > in the fact that my light fixture no longer > works after today's > > > > power > > > outage. > > > > I emailed aquatic life to see if there's a > fuse or something that I > > > > need to replace. I tried different outlets > to make sure the outlet > > > > wasn't bad somehow and it still does not > turn on, no lights, no > > > > humming, nothing but silence. Thankfully the > tank is next to the > > > > window and I opened the curtains so the > plants can still get light > > > > through the day, but I need to get this > fixed ASAP and I don't want > > > > to have to buy a new light fixture, does > anyone have any tips/advice > > > for me?? > > > > It is an aquatic life PowerCompact CF light > fixture with 4 x 65 watt > > > > CFL bulbs and LED moon lights, and a built > in timer, very nice > > > > light, I love it but I miss it already, > LOL. > > > > > > > > Thanks, > > > > Amber > > > > ------------------------------------ > > > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when > replying, Thank You. > > > ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> > ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> > > PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that > is NOT > > important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of > the original message > > MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was > re: old subject)" <- > > > <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. > , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. > > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. > > > > If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead > of unsubscribing, > > you can change your delivery option by clicking on > "Edit My > > Membership" on the home page. > > > > Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com > > > <mailto:aquaticlife-digest%40yahoogroups.com> to > receive the digest, > > which includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single > email > > > > Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com > > > <mailto:aquaticlife-nomail%40yahoogroups.com> > for the No E-Mail option > > where you will still be able to read messages on the > group and post > > replies. > > > > Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com > > > <mailto:aquaticlife-normal%40yahoogroups.com> to > receive individual > > e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > > ------------------------------------ > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when > replying, Thank You. > ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> > ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> > PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is > NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of > the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new > subject (was re: old subject)" <- > <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. > , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. > > If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of > unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by > clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the home page.  > > Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com > to receive the digest, which includes up to 25 posts at a > time in a single email > > Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com > for the No E-Mail option where you will still be able to > read messages on the group and post replies. > > Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com > to receive individual e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links > > >     mailto:AquaticLife-fullfeatured@yahoogroups.com > > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 43787	From: Kevin Boyle	Date: 10/14/2009
Subject: Re: GRR, I hate my electric company!

don't feel  so bad about the outgages, at least there is an excuse- isolated island, harsh weather, etc. i live 10 min north of Boston and we have lost power 6 or 7 times in the last year, never for a long time but you always wonder.... is this the one that's going to wipe out my fish? ironically part of the reason for the move was to get out of cambridge where we could count on a couple of long outages each summer1 ----- Original Message ----- From: "Amber Berglund" <arberglund@...> To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Tuesday, October 13, 2009 6:04:04 PM GMT -05:00 US/Canada Eastern Subject: [AquaticLife] GRR, I hate my electric company!   Okay, so today the power went out for a few hours. My problem lies in the fact that my light fixture no longer works after today's power outage. I emailed aquatic life to see if there's a fuse or something that I need to replace. I tried different outlets to make sure the outlet wasn't bad somehow and it still does not turn on, no lights, no humming, nothing but silence. Thankfully the tank is next to the window and I opened the curtains so the plants can still get light through the day, but I need to get this fixed ASAP and I don't want to have to buy a new light fixture, does anyone have any tips/advice for me?? It is an aquatic life PowerCompact CF light fixture with 4 x 65 watt CFL bulbs and LED moon lights, and a built in timer, very nice light, I love it but I miss it already, LOL. Thanks, Amber [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 43788	From: Menagerie_Manager	Date: 10/14/2009
Subject: Re: GRR, I hate my electric company!

It's amazing how close you can get with Google Earth and even MapQuest. On of the ladies in my rat group was caught out front of her house turning over a foster to it's new owner. The pic was accurate enough that I could have probably picked her out of a police line up. They do sometimes get the address off by a house or two. I'm kind of glad of that, but hubby has stopped sunbathing in the nude in the back yard, hehe. Certain church members wouldn't react well to that. DebR and the Three Goldfish (CB, Lucille, and Raven) (and 9 White Cloud Mountain minnows) ----- Original Message ----- From: "bill 1433" <warrenprint@...> Thanks Amber! My concerns are in how much or what you're actually going to see and yes, how close what you are seeing is actually accurate. I don't think our "Lenny" is a stalker just that he knew of your exact location up there. Bill

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 43789	From: toddswoman496861@aim.com	Date: 10/14/2009
Subject: Re: snails

not sure of base line or water parameters as I havent had a chance to get ahold of a friend who has a test kit. Will be able toget one this next payday. I would say i had the snails maybe a week before I noticed 2 of them were gone and ate up. I believe the algae eater fish is either a siamese algae eater or chinese alagae eater. The store just listed them as algae eater fish. I use a declore product that removes cholrine, chloromide(SP?) and heavy metals. I know it is well water we have. and i do i would say 50% water changes (30 gallon Tank) every week, Clean the filters out by rinsing them in the water that is in the tank, and wash with plain water once a month the plastic parts of the filter to help keepthe pond snails from getting out of hand. I hate being on a fixed income. Kate Dale -----Original Message----- From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@...> To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Tue, Oct 13, 2009 8:37 pm Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] snails What are your baseline tap water parameters and tank's parameters for pH, GH and KH? And ammonia, nitrite, nitrate while you're at it. While cuttlebone is a good thing to use if one has soft, acidic water, if you did not use enough to raise your hardness level, then it may not have been enough. Only testing before, during and after would give us the information needed. What kind of algae did you have? While algae eating fish will eat some kinds of algae and some snails will eat some kinds of algae, neither will eat all kings of algae. How long did you have the 3 snails and how long before two died? Were you using any other chemicals or additives in your tank besides a basic dechlor product? What kind of algae eating fish did you get? There are literally dozens of different commonly available species that fall into that category. As far as what ate the dead snails... the answer it probably every living thing in your tank... from the fish to the other snails to the micro-organisms. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of toddswoman496861@... Sent: Tuesday, October 13, 2009 6:56 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] snails I noticed I was having an algae problem that was getting out of hand so i went and got 3 mystery snails. They were doing good for a while then 2 of them looked like they were in the dormant or sleeping stage. The other day i was looking at the tank and i noticed the 2 that i thought were sleeping that all was left of them was an empty shell. I do have a piece of cuttle bone in the filter to make sure that there is enough calcium. I have guppies and went and gt an algae eating fish. I do have pond snails(not sure what else to call them) they are small. Could the pond snails have eaten the 2 mystery snails? The third one is doing great. Kate Dale ------------------------------------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the home page. Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com to receive the digest, which includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com for the No E-Mail option where you will still be able to read messages on the group and post replies. Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com to receive individual e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 43790	From: toddswoman496861@aim.com	Date: 10/14/2009
Subject: Re: snails

they get an algae wafer at least once a week. and i think they eat the leftover flake food if i am not mistaken. Kate Dale -----Original Message----- From: Amber Berglund <arberglund@...> To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Tue, Oct 13, 2009 9:18 pm Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] snails Are you feeding the snails? Mystery snails do not eat much algae as adult snails, most of their algae eating time is when they are still very small and young snails. Once they get big they prefer dead/decaying plant matter or leftover fish food. If they are not fed enough they will die from starvation pretty easily. I've killed a couple in my 125 gallon tank because they were looking for food forever and not finding it, so I had to make sure I added extra food for them that all the other fish didn't eat first. Also filter intakes are a big hazard for mystery snails, they crawl onto it looking for yummy leftovers and get stuck to it from the suction and it slowly sucks their foot inside the filter and if you don't turn off the filter and remove the intake and let them sit in a bowl of water or in the tank (if the other fish won't pick on it), and let it remove itself slowly from the intake filter, it take take 4-5 hours if they are badly stuck. Sometimes you have to cut them out too, and even then they don't always recover from this accident either. I have taken to covering ALL of my filters with mesh (like the kind you can buy from a hardware store for window screens), so that nothing can get accidentally sucked inside unless it's really small. This unfortunately has the side effect of needing to be rinsed off every 2-3 days (max) so that it doesn't get plugged up with detritus/plant matter. Amber toddswoman496861@... wrote: > > > > I noticed I was having an algae problem that was getting out of hand > so i went and got 3 mystery snails. They were doing good for a while > then 2 of them looked like they were in the dormant or sleeping stage. > The other day i was looking at the tank and i noticed the 2 that i > thought were sleeping that all was left of them was an empty shell. I > do have a piece of cuttle bone in the filter to make sure that there > is enough calcium. I have guppies and went and gt an algae eating > fish. I do have pond snails(not sure what else to call them) they are > small. Could the pond snails have eaten the 2 mystery snails? The > third one is doing great. > > Kate Dale > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > ------------------------------------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the home page. Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com to receive the digest, which includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com for the No E-Mail option where you will still be able to read messages on the group and post replies. Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com to receive individual e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 43791	From: Lainey Alexander	Date: 10/14/2009
Subject: Re: Green water continued

Thanks for this feedback, John, it sounds very reasonable. Tank is not by a window, but probably I need to be patient. Since my plants are very newly planted and not even rooted in some cases, I worry about killing the light at this stage... I am not overfeeding, in fact I may be underfeeding as my nitrates are zero. But I think I am doing it correctly?: feed twice a day food enough that it is all eaten in about five minutes. I took the driftwood out of the tank so I don't have to factor it into the current water problem, will retry this later. Lainey http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com On Oct 13, 2009, at 10:34 AM, creatureproductions wrote: > > Hello: > All you have to really do is cut back on the amount of light the > tank receives until the algae bloom in the water comes under > control. If the tank is by a window then you're getting double > light from both the window and tank lights. Cut the tank lights to > 7-8 hours a day and just monitor the plants for signs of stress. > Some plants can easily tolerate six hours a day. As the water > clears you can play with your day/night cycle until you get a good > mix. You can adjust the lights to be on at best times of the day > for tank viewing. > Also, overfeeding the fish along with too much light can also lead > to an algae bloom. Cut back a little on food and just monitor the > tank. > This will take a few weeks so patience is needed. Just be sure to > keep up on the 25% water changes every week. The tannins from the > driftwood are a way of life and after a time will balance out but > that takes a little while. With a little exzperimenting of day/ > night cycles you'll find the right balance. > Good Luck and...Have a Great Day!!! > John > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, Lainey Alexander > <lainealex@...> wrote: > > > > Hi again - > > > > Today I can clearly see that my tank is having an algae bloom and is > > very green, getting greener all the time. I still have zero readings > > for phosphate, nitrate, nitrite and ammonia. Everything I am reading > > says I have to turn off the lights for several days, but I am not > > sure my newly planted plants will endure this. I am trying to search > > planted tank forum but the search isn't working. > > > > Does anyone have direct experience of green water in a new tank? > Do I > > need to turn off the lights? Nothing I read seems to indicate that > > this problem will go away on its own. > > > > I don't have the type of cloudiness that seems to be bacterial, mine > > is really green - looks just awful! > > > > Thanks for everything... > > > > Lainey > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 43792	From: Lainey Alexander	Date: 10/14/2009
Subject: Re: Green water continued

Hi Gail - I just posted my tank measurements, it's 37g and for fish it's: 7 RN tetras 13 celestial pearl danios (one inch) 5 cory catfish 2 blue rams 6 siamese algae eaters 1 dwarf puffer (very gentle) It doesn't look too crowded to me, and I am not planning any additions, but I know the SAEs may outgrow the tank... Lainey http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com On Oct 13, 2009, at 10:34 AM, gailsugarpants wrote: > I have had this problem numerous times. Can you tell us how big > your tank is and about how many fish you have in it? > > I had this problem with my 55 gallon, I had way too many fish in it > and a heavy bio-load. So everytime I would slack on my tank > maintenance I would get an Algae Bloom. > > My advice would be similar, be sure to do PWC every couple of days > and be sure to vaccum your gravel at least once. On my 55 gallon, I > vaccum my gravel and try to pull at least two 3.5 gallon buckets of > waste. > > Since my last experience with an Algae Bloom, I have eliminated a > lot of my bioload by taking my Pleco and some other large fish to > my local fish store for credit. Since then, I haven't had any > problems. > > Good luck! and let us know the size of your tank and about it's > inhabitants :) > > thanks, > Gail > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, Lainey Alexander > <lainealex@...> wrote: > > > > Hi again - > > > > Today I can clearly see that my tank is having an algae bloom and is > > very green, getting greener all the time. I still have zero readings > > for phosphate, nitrate, nitrite and ammonia. Everything I am reading > > says I have to turn off the lights for several days, but I am not > > sure my newly planted plants will endure this. I am trying to search > > planted tank forum but the search isn't working. > > > > Does anyone have direct experience of green water in a new tank? > Do I > > need to turn off the lights? Nothing I read seems to indicate that > > this problem will go away on its own. > > > > I don't have the type of cloudiness that seems to be bacterial, mine > > is really green - looks just awful! > > > > Thanks for everything... > > > > Lainey > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 43793	From: Lainey Alexander	Date: 10/14/2009
Subject: Re: Green water continued

Tank measurements are 30 high, 23 wide and 12 deep. Fluorescent lights, 2 @65 watts and 6700k - on 12 and off 12 which is what I have been told my plants require... I used Activ-Flora gravel, and this contains non-nitrogen fertilizer plus "instant-cycling" bacteria Not dosing with any chemicals or ferts *** I went to a couple LFSs yesterday (Boston) and it seems to be confirmed that I have green water algae bloom. Most people are thinking it was caused because I added about two inches of gravel a week ago, the above dubious stuff - and this somehow set things off. I used this same gravel in the tank set up and things were fine, but now maybe it created imbalance. I had run out of enough gravel when I set the tank up five or six weeks ago, had to reorder and thus the lag in applying it. Everyone I talk to is recommending UV to kill the algae so the plants will be able to thrive. Since my nitrates are at zero, people seem to think the algae is probably robbing a lot of the nutrients from the plants at this point. I tried lights off for two days but did not see much change... Lainey http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com On Oct 13, 2009, at 1:14 AM, Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > OK. Give us more details on your planted tank set up. > > Algae problems are usually cause when there is too much of an > imbalance of > the trilogy (lighting, nutrients, CO2). > > What size tank, how many gallons, measurements (especially how tall)? > > What kind of lighting (fluorescent, CFL's, other)? How many watts? How > long are you running them each day? > > What kind of substrate did you use? > > Are you dosing with any kind of fertilizers or other chemicals? > > This could have been brought on from when you were moving the CO2 > injector > around and that could have thrown things out of balance.. but since > your > tank is still pretty new, it's expected to go out of balance a few > times > until you figure things out. > > Here's a few long and detailed articles, or pages with a list of > articles on > planted tanks. > > I gave you this one a couple of days ago but here it is again since > it's a > good article. > http://www.americanaquariumproducts.com/AquariumPlants.html > > http://www.csd.net/~cgadd/aqua/articles.htm (all good articles) > > Things that can go wrong - part I (article from Tropical Fish Hobbyist > magazine) > http://naturalaquariums.com/plantedtank/0509.html > > Things that can go wrong - part II (mainly about algae issues) > http://naturalaquariums.com/plantedtank/0510.html > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the > right > side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, > Month) > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On > Behalf Of Lainey Alexander > Sent: Monday, October 12, 2009 8:38 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Subject: [AquaticLife] Green water continued > > Hi again - > > Today I can clearly see that my tank is having an algae bloom and > is very > green, getting greener all the time. I still have zero readings for > phosphate, nitrate, nitrite and ammonia. Everything I am reading > says I have > to turn off the lights for several days, but I am not sure my newly > planted > plants will endure this. I am trying to search planted tank forum > but the > search isn't working. > > Does anyone have direct experience of green water in a new tank? Do > I need > to turn off the lights? Nothing I read seems to indicate that this > problem > will go away on its own. > > I don't have the type of cloudiness that seems to be bacterial, > mine is > really green - looks just awful! > > Thanks for everything... > > Lainey > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 43794	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 10/14/2009
Subject: Re: snails

They might need fed a little more often, as I said they won't eat the algae on the side of the glass much at all when they get full sized, they prefer dead plant matter and left over food. Also you are doing water changes in too large of a volume, that may have stressed out the fish/snails depending on if the pH and KH/GH changed too fast with the new water added. Try not to do more than 20-25% water changes at one time, if the tank is really dirty each week when you do that then do 2 water changes a week instead of 1, both 20% or so. Amber toddswoman496861@... wrote: > > > > they get an algae wafer at least once a week. and i think they eat the > leftover flake food if i am not mistaken. > > Kate Dale > > -----Original Message----- > From: Amber Berglund <arberglund@... > <mailto:arberglund%40gmail.com>> > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Sent: Tue, Oct 13, 2009 9:18 pm > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] snails > > Are you feeding the snails? Mystery snails do not eat much algae as > adult snails, most of their algae eating time is when they are still > very small and young snails. Once they get big they prefer dead/decaying > plant matter or leftover fish food. If they are not fed enough they will > die from starvation pretty easily. I've killed a couple in my 125 gallon > tank because they were looking for food forever and not finding it, so I > had to make sure I added extra food for them that all the other fish > didn't eat first. Also filter intakes are a big hazard for mystery > snails, they crawl onto it looking for yummy leftovers and get stuck to > it from the suction and it slowly sucks their foot inside the filter and > if you don't turn off the filter and remove the intake and let them sit > in a bowl of water or in the tank (if the other fish won't pick on it), > and let it remove itself slowly from the intake filter, it take take 4-5 > hours if they are badly stuck. Sometimes you have to cut them out too, > and even then they don't always recover from this accident either. I > have taken to covering ALL of my filters with mesh (like the kind you > can buy from a hardware store for window screens), so that nothing can > get accidentally sucked inside unless it's really small. This > unfortunately has the side effect of needing to be rinsed off every 2-3 > days (max) so that it doesn't get plugged up with detritus/plant matter. > > Amber > > toddswoman496861@... <mailto:toddswoman496861%40aim.com> wrote: > > > > > > > > I noticed I was having an algae problem that was getting out of hand > > so i went and got 3 mystery snails. They were doing good for a while > > then 2 of them looked like they were in the dormant or sleeping stage. > > The other day i was looking at the tank and i noticed the 2 that i > > thought were sleeping that all was left of them was an empty shell. I > > do have a piece of cuttle bone in the filter to make sure that there > > is enough calcium. I have guppies and went and gt an algae eating > > fish. I do have pond snails(not sure what else to call them) they are > > small. Could the pond snails have eaten the 2 mystery snails? The > > third one is doing great. > > > > Kate Dale > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > > > ------------------------------------ > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. > ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> > PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT > important to the > reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the > SUBJECT LINE -> > i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- > <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. > > If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of unsubscribing, > you can > change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the > home > page. > > Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:aquaticlife-digest%40yahoogroups.com> to receive the digest, > which > includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email > > Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:aquaticlife-nomail%40yahoogroups.com> for the No E-Mail option > where you > will still be able to read messages on the group and post replies. > > Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:aquaticlife-normal%40yahoogroups.com> to receive individual > e-mails.Yahoo! > Groups Links > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 43795	From: gailsugarpants	Date: 10/14/2009
Subject: Re: Green water continued

Lainey Wow, you have 34 fish for a 37 gallon tank. That is a high ratio. How big are the SAEs? I see that they get up to 6" and that is pretty big. They could possibly be the heaviest part of your bioload. Can you tell us how often you do maintenance on your tank? Do you do weekly water changes and vaccum your gravel? Also, how you maintain your filtration system? That info can be helpful too. Thanks, Gail --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, Lainey Alexander <lainealex@...> wrote: > > Hi Gail - > > I just posted my tank measurements, it's 37g and for fish it's: > > 7 RN tetras > 13 celestial pearl danios (one inch) > 5 cory catfish > 2 blue rams > 6 siamese algae eaters > 1 dwarf puffer (very gentle) > > It doesn't look too crowded to me, and I am not planning any > additions, but I know the SAEs may outgrow the tank... > > Lainey > http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 43796	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 10/14/2009
Subject: Re: GRR, I hate my electric company!

Have you ever used Google Maps? Those are slightly lesser qualities of Satellite image overlays... especially since that new imaging satellite was launched last week. Google Earth 5 is FREE from http://earth.google.com/ and there is a tutorial and demonstration on that Google site which would show you things better than a screen shot. It is a bit of a resource hog so you might want to shut down any other resource hog programs when you're using it for best performance. I mostly use it on my main desktop with only 1G of RAM and Windows XP without too much problem even when I have Outlook open, IE windows/tabs and other programs running but I do see my Task Manager chart spike while running all these programs. On my Vista laptop with 3G of RAM, I do not have any problems running everything at once. Make sure you UN-CHECK the Google Chrome browser download (it is checked by default... I hate downloads that do this bundling stuff by default) and you may or may not want to un-check the box allowing Google to track your usage. If you want the Google Chrome browser, do a separate download of it so that it doesn't do any quirky installation stuff that you may not want. So many browsers try to take over a system nowadays and cause conflicts with each other, which is my biggest complaint with having multiple browsers... although many suggest having two browsers available in case one ever messes up. I like having redundancy as well but not if the redundant program is going to interfere with how my main program works. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of bill 1433 Sent: Wednesday, October 14, 2009 10:31 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: GRR, I hate my electric company! Len,   I was most interested in your comments about the use of Google Earth.  I have not tried it but would like too. I'm afraid they don't show much in examples of what you could or should see?  Can you send me, off-list, a screen-shot so I can judge for myself if its worth the effort?  Just pick a place of interest. How about Amber's House? <G> Why not?   Bill --- On Tue, 10/13/09, Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@...> wrote: From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@...> Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: GRR, I hate my electric company! To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Date: Tuesday, October 13, 2009, 11:58 PM Nope.  I Google Earth'ed you a while back when we were talking about your island. LOL  I also flew over to that volcano across the bay to check that area out too.  I haven't been on Google Earth the past couple of weeks but I hear that new satellite they launched last week is going to give even better imaging to Google Earth and Google Maps.  They might even have the street labels better for your island so the international airport doesn't look like a dirt road and a helipad like it did the last time I flew over your area.... with Google Earth.  Hopefully, with that new satellite, I might finally be able to check out my bikini clad neighbor babe with the 12' solid vinyl fence. ;-)  Dang... what ever happened to real wood with knot holes. LOL Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Amber Berglund Sent: Tuesday, October 13, 2009 10:44 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: GRR, I hate my electric company! Wait, how do _you_ know it's bigger than Gilligan's Island, did you get a special invite one day to take a three hour tour? ;) LOL Amber Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: >  > > John, > > I think you're kind of new out here so you may not realize it yet but > Amber lives on an island up in Alaska... bigger than Gilligan's Island > but not a BIG city either so her options aren't the same as for the > rest of us. But there certainly could be a lighting center or the > lighting department at a BIG BOX home repair center that might have a > knowledgeable person. I think once she opens up the top of the light > fixture, the problem will probably present itself with something that > shows burn damage. > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> (Links to any articles referenced in > above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels > and also under Archives by Year, Month) > > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On Behalf Of > creatureproductions > Sent: Tuesday, October 13, 2009 9:19 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: GRR, I hate my electric company! > > Hello: > Take the light to a store. They'll tell you if it's a starter, > ballast, oe needs to be replaced. Most stores seem to be honest about it. > Good Luck!!! > John > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>, Amber Berglund > <arberglund@...> wrote: > > > > Okay, so today the power went out for a few hours. My problem lies > > in the fact that my light fixture no longer works after today's > > power > outage. > > I emailed aquatic life to see if there's a fuse or something that I > > need to replace. I tried different outlets to make sure the outlet > > wasn't bad somehow and it still does not turn on, no lights, no > > humming, nothing but silence. Thankfully the tank is next to the > > window and I opened the curtains so the plants can still get light > > through the day, but I need to get this fixed ASAP and I don't want > > to have to buy a new light fixture, does anyone have any tips/advice > for me?? > > It is an aquatic life PowerCompact CF light fixture with 4 x 65 watt > > CFL bulbs and LED moon lights, and a built in timer, very nice > > light, I love it but I miss it already, LOL. > > > > Thanks, > > Amber ------------------------------------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the home page.  Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com to receive the digest, which includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com for the No E-Mail option where you will still be able to read messages on the group and post replies. Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com to receive individual e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links ------------------------------------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the home page. Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com to receive the digest, which includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com for the No E-Mail option where you will still be able to read messages on the group and post replies. Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com to receive individual e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 43797	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 10/14/2009
Subject: Re: GRR, I hate my electric company!

Amendment to earlier reply... Of course, if you want to send me your address off-list, I'll see how good I can see your house and send you a screen shot. ;-) Of course, Google Maps and the Street Views probably gives the best images of homes/businesses nowadays since Google equipped vans to drive up and down every street in most cities in America (and possibly elsewhere) and these vans took 360 photos every 50 feet or so, so you can view these images and dial around to see your house, the houses next door, across the street, cars parked in the neighborhood, etc. They do have technology to blur faces and license plates but everything else is pretty clear. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of bill 1433 Sent: Wednesday, October 14, 2009 10:31 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: GRR, I hate my electric company! Len,   I was most interested in your comments about the use of Google Earth.  I have not tried it but would like too. I'm afraid they don't show much in examples of what you could or should see?  Can you send me, off-list, a screen-shot so I can judge for myself if its worth the effort?  Just pick a place of interest. How about Amber's House? <G> Why not?   Bill --- On Tue, 10/13/09, Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@...> wrote: From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@...> Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: GRR, I hate my electric company! To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Date: Tuesday, October 13, 2009, 11:58 PM Nope.  I Google Earth'ed you a while back when we were talking about your island. LOL  I also flew over to that volcano across the bay to check that area out too.  I haven't been on Google Earth the past couple of weeks but I hear that new satellite they launched last week is going to give even better imaging to Google Earth and Google Maps.  They might even have the street labels better for your island so the international airport doesn't look like a dirt road and a helipad like it did the last time I flew over your area.... with Google Earth.  Hopefully, with that new satellite, I might finally be able to check out my bikini clad neighbor babe with the 12' solid vinyl fence. ;-)  Dang... what ever happened to real wood with knot holes. LOL Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Amber Berglund Sent: Tuesday, October 13, 2009 10:44 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: GRR, I hate my electric company! Wait, how do _you_ know it's bigger than Gilligan's Island, did you get a special invite one day to take a three hour tour? ;) LOL Amber Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: >  > > John, > > I think you're kind of new out here so you may not realize it yet but > Amber lives on an island up in Alaska... bigger than Gilligan's Island > but not a BIG city either so her options aren't the same as for the > rest of us. But there certainly could be a lighting center or the > lighting department at a BIG BOX home repair center that might have a > knowledgeable person. I think once she opens up the top of the light > fixture, the problem will probably present itself with something that > shows burn damage. > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> (Links to any articles referenced in > above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels > and also under Archives by Year, Month) > > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On Behalf Of > creatureproductions > Sent: Tuesday, October 13, 2009 9:19 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: GRR, I hate my electric company! > > Hello: > Take the light to a store. They'll tell you if it's a starter, > ballast, oe needs to be replaced. Most stores seem to be honest about it. > Good Luck!!! > John > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>, Amber Berglund > <arberglund@...> wrote: > > > > Okay, so today the power went out for a few hours. My problem lies > > in the fact that my light fixture no longer works after today's > > power > outage. > > I emailed aquatic life to see if there's a fuse or something that I > > need to replace. I tried different outlets to make sure the outlet > > wasn't bad somehow and it still does not turn on, no lights, no > > humming, nothing but silence. Thankfully the tank is next to the > > window and I opened the curtains so the plants can still get light > > through the day, but I need to get this fixed ASAP and I don't want > > to have to buy a new light fixture, does anyone have any tips/advice > for me?? > > It is an aquatic life PowerCompact CF light fixture with 4 x 65 watt > > CFL bulbs and LED moon lights, and a built in timer, very nice > > light, I love it but I miss it already, LOL. > > > > Thanks, > > Amber ------------------------------------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the home page.  Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com to receive the digest, which includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com for the No E-Mail option where you will still be able to read messages on the group and post replies. Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com to receive individual e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links ------------------------------------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the home page. Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com to receive the digest, which includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com for the No E-Mail option where you will still be able to read messages on the group and post replies. Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com to receive individual e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 43798	From: bill 1433	Date: 10/14/2009
Subject: Re: GRR, I hate my electric company!

No but you check a location? 5th and York Streets Philadelphia, PA Bill --- On Wed, 10/14/09, Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@...> wrote: > From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@...> > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: GRR, I hate my electric company! > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Date: Wednesday, October 14, 2009, 3:55 PM > Amendment to earlier reply... > > Of course, if you want to send me your address off-list, > I'll see how good I > can see your house and send you a screen shot. ;-)  Of > course, Google Maps > and the Street Views probably gives the best images of > homes/businesses > nowadays since Google equipped vans to drive up and down > every street in > most cities in America (and possibly elsewhere) and these > vans took 360 > photos every 50 feet or so, so you can view these images > and dial around to > see your house, the houses next door, across the street, > cars parked in the > neighborhood, etc.  They do have technology to blur > faces and license plates > but everything else is pretty clear. > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed > on the right > side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives > by Year, Month) > > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] > On > Behalf Of bill 1433 > Sent: Wednesday, October 14, 2009 10:31 AM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: GRR, I hate my electric > company! > > Len, >   > I was most interested in your comments about the use of > Google Earth.  I > have not tried it but would like too. > I'm afraid they don't show much in examples of what you > could or should > see?  Can you send me, off-list, a screen-shot so I can > judge for myself if > its worth the effort?  Just pick a place of interest. > How about Amber's House? <G>  Why not? >   > Bill > > --- On Tue, 10/13/09, Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@...> > wrote: > > > From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@...> > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: GRR, I hate my electric > company! > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Date: Tuesday, October 13, 2009, 11:58 PM > > > Nope.  I Google Earth'ed you a while back when we were > talking about your > island. LOL  I also flew over to that volcano across the > bay to check that > area out too.  I haven't been on Google Earth the past > couple of weeks but I > hear that new satellite they launched last week is going to > give even better > imaging to Google Earth and Google Maps.  They might even > have the street > labels better for your island so the international airport > doesn't look like > a dirt road and a helipad like it did the last time I flew > over your > area.... with Google Earth.  Hopefully, with that new > satellite, I might > finally be able to check out my bikini clad neighbor babe > with the 12' solid > vinyl fence. ;-)  Dang... what ever happened to real wood > with knot holes. > LOL > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to > any articles referenced > in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically > under Labels and > also under Archives by Year, Month) > > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] > On > Behalf Of Amber Berglund > Sent: Tuesday, October 13, 2009 10:44 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: GRR, I hate my electric > company! > > Wait, how do _you_ know it's bigger than Gilligan's Island, > did you get a > special invite one day to take a three hour tour? ;) LOL > > Amber > > Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > >  > > > > John, > > > > I think you're kind of new out here so you may not > realize it yet but > > Amber lives on an island up in Alaska... bigger than > Gilligan's Island > > but not a BIG city either so her options aren't the > same as for the > > rest of us. But there certainly could be a lighting > center or the > > lighting department at a BIG BOX home repair center > that might have a > > knowledgeable person. I think once she opens up the > top of the light > > fixture, the problem will probably present itself with > something that > > shows burn damage. > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> (Links > to any articles referenced in > > above reply are listed on the right side, > alphabetically under Labels > > and also under Archives by Year, Month) > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On > Behalf Of > > creatureproductions > > Sent: Tuesday, October 13, 2009 9:19 PM > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: GRR, I hate my electric > company! > > > > Hello: > > Take the light to a store. They'll tell you if it's a > starter, > > ballast, oe needs to be replaced. Most stores seem to > be honest about it. > > Good Luck!!! > > John > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>, Amber > Berglund > > <arberglund@...> wrote: > > > > > > Okay, so today the power went out for a few > hours. My problem lies > > > in the fact that my light fixture no longer works > after today's > > > power > > outage. > > > I emailed aquatic life to see if there's a fuse > or something that I > > > need to replace. I tried different outlets to > make sure the outlet > > > wasn't bad somehow and it still does not turn on, > no lights, no > > > humming, nothing but silence. Thankfully the tank > is next to the > > > window and I opened the curtains so the plants > can still get light > > > through the day, but I need to get this fixed > ASAP and I don't want > > > to have to buy a new light fixture, does anyone > have any tips/advice > > for me?? > > > It is an aquatic life PowerCompact CF light > fixture with 4 x 65 watt > > > CFL bulbs and LED moon lights, and a built in > timer, very nice > > > light, I love it but I miss it already, LOL. > > > > > > Thanks, > > > Amber > > > > > ------------------------------------ > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when > replying, Thank You. > ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> > ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> > PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is > NOT important to > the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original > message MODIFY the SUBJECT > LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- > <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. > , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. > > If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of > unsubscribing, you > can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My > Membership" on the > home page.  > > Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com > to receive the digest, which > includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email > > Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com > for the No E-Mail option where > you will still be able to read messages on the group and > post replies. > > Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com > to receive individual > e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > >       > > > ------------------------------------ > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when > replying, Thank You. > ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> > ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> > PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is > NOT important to > the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original > message MODIFY the SUBJECT > LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- > <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. > , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. > > If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of > unsubscribing, you > can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My > Membership" on the > home page.  > > Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com > to receive the digest, which > includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email > > Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com > for the No E-Mail option where > you will still be able to read messages on the group and > post replies. > > Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com > to receive individual > e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > ------------------------------------ > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when > replying, Thank You. > ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> > ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> > PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is > NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of > the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new > subject (was re: old subject)" <- > <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. > , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. > > If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of > unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by > clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the home page.  > > Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com > to receive the digest, which includes up to 25 posts at a > time in a single email > > Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com > for the No E-Mail option where you will still be able to > read messages on the group and post replies. > > Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com > to receive individual e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links > > >     mailto:AquaticLife-fullfeatured@yahoogroups.com > > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 43799	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 10/14/2009
Subject: Re: GRR, I hate my electric company!

Amber, My previous business for 16 years, prior to Katrina, was a private investigator biz, so yes, I was a paid peeping-tom for many years. ;-) So, as far as finding your home, that's easy... if I wanted to do it. LOL Most people, including myself, post enough stuff online that once all that is combined, it's not hard to fill in a few blanks after checking a few government offices for other public info. That's what is getting so many people in trouble with colleges and jobs nowadays since there's so much out there.... and if I can't find very much on someone, then I get suspicious as to why they're being so secretive... damned if you do, damned if you don't! LOL From about 1990 thru 2000, I intentionally use to put out mis-information about myself, my family, etc., all over the net so that someone digging up info on me would have lots of trash to go through to find out the legitimate info on me and my family. Now that I'm out of that business, I do not worry as much since I'm not ruining some people's lives any longer so I've cleaned up most of that mis-information that I could find. That was the downside of working in the legal industry... when your side wins, that means there's a BIG loser on the other side and you never know who they're going to blame. Usually the lawyers or the Judges got the blame since I worked behind the scenes... but occasionally my name would become an integral part of the case and then I'd get my share of threats. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Amber Berglund Sent: Wednesday, October 14, 2009 10:38 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: GRR, I hate my electric company! If Lenny knows where my house is I may just have to report him as a Stalker ;) LOL. Show him our fancy airport Lenny ;) Amber bill 1433 wrote: > > > Len, > > I was most interested in your comments about the use of Google Earth. > I have not tried it but would like too. > I'm afraid they don't show much in examples of what you could or > should see? Can you send me, off-list, a screen-shot so I can judge > for myself if its worth the effort? Just pick a place of interest. > How about Amber's House? <G> Why not? > > Bill > > --- On Tue, 10/13/09, Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@... > <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com>> wrote: > > From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@... > <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com>> > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: GRR, I hate my electric company! > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Date: Tuesday, October 13, 2009, 11:58 PM > > Nope. I Google Earth'ed you a while back when we were talking about > your island. LOL I also flew over to that volcano across the bay to > check that area out too. I haven't been on Google Earth the past > couple of weeks but I hear that new satellite they launched last week > is going to give even better imaging to Google Earth and Google Maps. > They might even have the street labels better for your island so the > international airport doesn't look like a dirt road and a helipad like > it did the last time I flew over your area.... with Google Earth. > Hopefully, with that new satellite, I might finally be able to check > out my bikini clad neighbor babe with the 12' > solid > vinyl fence. ;-) Dang... what ever happened to real wood with knot holes. > LOL > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> (Links to any articles referenced in > above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels > and also under Archives by Year, Month) > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On Behalf Of Amber Berglund > Sent: Tuesday, October 13, 2009 10:44 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: GRR, I hate my electric company! > > Wait, how do _you_ know it's bigger than Gilligan's Island, did you > get a special invite one day to take a three hour tour? ;) LOL > > Amber > > Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > > > > > > John, > > > > I think you're kind of new out here so you may not realize it yet > > but Amber lives on an island up in Alaska... bigger than Gilligan's > > Island but not a BIG city either so her options aren't the same as > > for the rest of us. But there certainly could be a lighting center > > or the lighting department at a BIG BOX home repair center that > > might have a knowledgeable person. I think once she opens up the top > > of the light fixture, the problem will probably present itself with > > something that shows burn damage. > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>> > (Links to any articles referenced in > > above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under > > Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On Behalf Of > > creatureproductions > > Sent: Tuesday, October 13, 2009 9:19 PM > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: GRR, I hate my electric company! > > > > Hello: > > Take the light to a store. They'll tell you if it's a starter, > > ballast, oe needs to be replaced. Most stores seem to be honest > about it. > > Good Luck!!! > > John > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>, Amber Berglund > > <arberglund@...> wrote: > > > > > > Okay, so today the power went out for a few hours. My problem lies > > > in the fact that my light fixture no longer works after today's > > > power > > outage. > > > I emailed aquatic life to see if there's a fuse or something that > > > I need to replace. I tried different outlets to make sure the > > > outlet wasn't bad somehow and it still does not turn on, no > > > lights, no humming, nothing but silence. Thankfully the tank is > > > next to the window and I opened the curtains so the plants can > > > still get light through the day, but I need to get this fixed ASAP > > > and I don't want to have to buy a new light fixture, does anyone > > > have any tips/advice > > for me?? > > > It is an aquatic life PowerCompact CF light fixture with 4 x 65 > > > watt CFL bulbs and LED moon lights, and a built in timer, very > > > nice light, I love it but I miss it already, LOL. > > > > > > Thanks, > > > Amber

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 43800	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 10/14/2009
Subject: Re: GRR, I hate my electric company!

Darn... I was hoping to do some long distance tinkering. LOL Glad it all worked out. I was hoping there was an internal fuse or reset button but the video on YouTube didn't talk about it so I was worried for you. Make sure you still get that surge protector power strip for all your lighting, pumps and filters though. Don't buy the cheapest one you can find but no need to buy the most expensive either. Usually a $20.00 surge protector will be pretty good. You can always check them out online and read the reviews and comments before deciding on one. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Amber Berglund Sent: Wednesday, October 14, 2009 11:37 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: GRR, I hate my electric company! Okay, good news the manufacture got back to me about the light fixture, all I had to do was push a button (with a paperclip) on the timer, which reset the timer/clock. It works great again, just have to reset everything ;) LOL Amber bill 1433 wrote: > > > Len, > > I was most interested in your comments about the use of Google Earth. > I have not tried it but would like too. > I'm afraid they don't show much in examples of what you could or > should see? Can you send me, off-list, a screen-shot so I can judge > for myself if its worth the effort? Just pick a place of interest. > How about Amber's House? <G> Why not? > > Bill > > --- On Tue, 10/13/09, Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@... > <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com>> wrote: > > From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@... > <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com>> > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: GRR, I hate my electric company! > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Date: Tuesday, October 13, 2009, 11:58 PM > > Nope. I Google Earth'ed you a while back when we were talking about > your island. LOL I also flew over to that volcano across the bay to > check that area out too. I haven't been on Google Earth the past > couple of weeks but I hear that new satellite they launched last week > is going to give even better imaging to Google Earth and Google Maps. > They might even have the street labels better for your island so the > international airport doesn't look like a dirt road and a helipad like > it did the last time I flew over your area.... with Google Earth. > Hopefully, with that new satellite, I might finally be able to check > out my bikini clad neighbor babe with the 12' > solid > vinyl fence. ;-) Dang... what ever happened to real wood with knot holes. > LOL > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> (Links to any articles referenced in > above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels > and also under Archives by Year, Month) > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On Behalf Of Amber Berglund > Sent: Tuesday, October 13, 2009 10:44 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: GRR, I hate my electric company! > > Wait, how do _you_ know it's bigger than Gilligan's Island, did you > get a special invite one day to take a three hour tour? ;) LOL > > Amber > > Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > > > > > > John, > > > > I think you're kind of new out here so you may not realize it yet > > but Amber lives on an island up in Alaska... bigger than Gilligan's > > Island but not a BIG city either so her options aren't the same as > > for the rest of us. But there certainly could be a lighting center > > or the lighting department at a BIG BOX home repair center that > > might have a knowledgeable person. I think once she opens up the top > > of the light fixture, the problem will probably present itself with > > something that shows burn damage. > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>> > (Links to any articles referenced in > > above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under > > Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On Behalf Of > > creatureproductions > > Sent: Tuesday, October 13, 2009 9:19 PM > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: GRR, I hate my electric company! > > > > Hello: > > Take the light to a store. They'll tell you if it's a starter, > > ballast, oe needs to be replaced. Most stores seem to be honest > about it. > > Good Luck!!! > > John > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>, Amber Berglund > > <arberglund@...> wrote: > > > > > > Okay, so today the power went out for a few hours. My problem lies > > > in the fact that my light fixture no longer works after today's > > > power > > outage. > > > I emailed aquatic life to see if there's a fuse or something that > > > I need to replace. I tried different outlets to make sure the > > > outlet wasn't bad somehow and it still does not turn on, no > > > lights, no humming, nothing but silence. Thankfully the tank is > > > next to the window and I opened the curtains so the plants can > > > still get light through the day, but I need to get this fixed ASAP > > > and I don't want to have to buy a new light fixture, does anyone > > > have any tips/advice > > for me?? > > > It is an aquatic life PowerCompact CF light fixture with 4 x 65 > > > watt CFL bulbs and LED moon lights, and a built in timer, very > > > nice light, I love it but I miss it already, LOL. > > > > > > Thanks, > > > Amber

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 43801	From: biG poppa	Date: 10/14/2009
Subject: Re: Green water continued

not as bad as my load in my 40g planted   3 cardinal tetras 3 rn tetras 3 head and tail tetras 3 serpa tetras 3 panda cory 1 pepper cory 1 albino cory 2 variatus 2 kuli loaches 2 red eye ballon tetras 1 rainbow shark     now for my 55g   1 5' pleco 2 painted platys 2 sunburst platy 3 red barbd 1 rainbow shark 1 gold gouramy and green water i can not get rid off..   and my 20g  with a jelly bean parrot and a gold gourami --- On Wed, 10/14/09, gailsugarpants <gail.johnson2@...> wrote: From: gailsugarpants <gail.johnson2@...> Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Green water continued To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Date: Wednesday, October 14, 2009, 2:56 PM   Lainey Wow, you have 34 fish for a 37 gallon tank. That is a high ratio. How big are the SAEs? I see that they get up to 6" and that is pretty big. They could possibly be the heaviest part of your bioload. Can you tell us how often you do maintenance on your tank? Do you do weekly water changes and vaccum your gravel? Also, how you maintain your filtration system? That info can be helpful too. Thanks, Gail --- In AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com, Lainey Alexander <lainealex@. ..> wrote: > > Hi Gail - > > I just posted my tank measurements, it's 37g and for fish it's: > > 7 RN tetras > 13 celestial pearl danios (one inch) > 5 cory catfish > 2 blue rams > 6 siamese algae eaters > 1 dwarf puffer (very gentle) > > It doesn't look too crowded to me, and I am not planning any > additions, but I know the SAEs may outgrow the tank... > > Lainey > http://www.grasslan dsgouldians. com > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 43802	From: bill 1433	Date: 10/14/2009
Subject: Re: GRR, I hate my electric company!

Lenny! I'm quite sure you would be interested to know that there is currently a government agency which will do this very thing for you! W.P.P.= Witness Protection Program Bill----ps goggle maps! I found what I wanted to know! --- On Wed, 10/14/09, Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@...> wrote: > From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@...> > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: GRR, I hate my electric company! > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Date: Wednesday, October 14, 2009, 4:40 PM > Amber, > > My previous business for 16 years, prior to Katrina, was a > private > investigator biz, so yes, I was a paid peeping-tom for many > years. ;-)  So, > as far as finding your home, that's easy... if I wanted to > do it. LOL  Most > people, including myself, post enough stuff online that > once all that is > combined, it's not hard to fill in a few blanks after > checking a few > government offices for other public info.  > > That's what is getting so many people in trouble with > colleges and jobs > nowadays since there's so much out there.... and if I can't > find very much > on someone, then I get suspicious as to why they're being > so secretive... > damned if you do, damned if you don't! LOL > > From about 1990 thru 2000, I intentionally use to put out > mis-information > about myself, my family, etc., all over the net so that > someone digging up > info on me would have lots of trash to go through to find > out the legitimate > info on me and my family.  Now that I'm out of that > business, I do not worry > as much since I'm not ruining some people's lives any > longer so I've cleaned > up most of that mis-information that I could find.  > That was the downside of > working in the legal industry... when your side wins, that > means there's a > BIG loser on the other side and you never know who they're > going to blame. > Usually the lawyers or the Judges got the blame since I > worked behind the > scenes... but occasionally my name would become an integral > part of the case > and then I'd get my share of threats. > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed > on the right > side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives > by Year, Month) > > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] > On > Behalf Of Amber Berglund > Sent: Wednesday, October 14, 2009 10:38 AM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: GRR, I hate my electric > company! > > If Lenny knows where my house is I may just have to report > him as a Stalker > ;) LOL. > Show him our fancy airport Lenny ;) > > Amber > > bill 1433 wrote: > >  > > > > Len, > >  > > I was most interested in your comments about the use > of Google Earth.  > > I have not tried it but would like too. > > I'm afraid they don't show much in examples of what > you could or > > should see?  Can you send me, off-list, a > screen-shot so I can judge > > for myself if its worth the effort?  Just pick a > place of interest. > > How about Amber's House? <G> Why not? > >  > > Bill > > > > --- On Tue, 10/13/09, Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@... > > > <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com>> wrote: > > > > From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@... > > > <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com>> > > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: GRR, I hate my electric > company! > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > Date: Tuesday, October 13, 2009, 11:58 PM > > > > Nope.  I Google Earth'ed you a while back when we > were talking about > > your island. LOL  I also flew over to that > volcano across the bay to > > check that area out too.  I haven't been on > Google Earth the past > > couple of weeks but I hear that new satellite they > launched last week > > is going to give even better imaging to Google Earth > and Google Maps.  > > They might even have the street labels better for your > island so the > > international airport doesn't look like a dirt road > and a helipad like > > it did the last time I flew over your area.... with > Google Earth.  > > Hopefully, with that new satellite, I might finally be > able to check > > out my bikini clad neighbor babe with the 12' > > solid > > vinyl fence. ;-)  Dang... what ever happened to > real wood with knot holes. > > LOL > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> (Links > to any articles referenced in > > above reply are listed on the right side, > alphabetically under Labels > > and also under Archives by Year, Month) > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On > Behalf Of Amber Berglund > > Sent: Tuesday, October 13, 2009 10:44 PM > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: GRR, I hate my electric > company! > > > > Wait, how do _you_ know it's bigger than Gilligan's > Island, did you > > get a special invite one day to take a three hour > tour? ;) LOL > > > > Amber > > > > Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > > > > > > > > > John, > > > > > > I think you're kind of new out here so you may > not realize it yet > > > but Amber lives on an island up in Alaska... > bigger than Gilligan's > > > Island but not a BIG city either so her options > aren't the same as > > > for the rest of us. But there certainly could be > a lighting center > > > or the lighting department at a BIG BOX home > repair center that > > > might have a knowledgeable person. I think once > she opens up the top > > > of the light fixture, the problem will probably > present itself with > > > something that shows burn damage. > > > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>> > > (Links to any articles referenced in > > > above reply are listed on the right side, > alphabetically under > > > Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) > > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On > Behalf Of > > > creatureproductions > > > Sent: Tuesday, October 13, 2009 9:19 PM > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: GRR, I hate my > electric company! > > > > > > Hello: > > > Take the light to a store. They'll tell you if > it's a starter, > > > ballast, oe needs to be replaced. Most stores > seem to be honest > > about it. > > > Good Luck!!! > > > John > > > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>, > Amber Berglund > > > <arberglund@...> wrote: > > > > > > > > Okay, so today the power went out for a few > hours. My problem lies > > > > in the fact that my light fixture no longer > works after today's > > > > power > > > outage. > > > > I emailed aquatic life to see if there's a > fuse or something that > > > > I need to replace. I tried different outlets > to make sure the > > > > outlet wasn't bad somehow and it still does > not turn on, no > > > > lights, no humming, nothing but silence. > Thankfully the tank is > > > > next to the window and I opened the curtains > so the plants can > > > > still get light through the day, but I need > to get this fixed ASAP > > > > and I don't want to have to buy a new light > fixture, does anyone > > > > have any tips/advice > > > for me?? > > > > It is an aquatic life PowerCompact CF light > fixture with 4 x 65 > > > > watt CFL bulbs and LED moon lights, and a > built in timer, very > > > > nice light, I love it but I miss it already, > LOL. > > > > > > > > Thanks, > > > > Amber > > > > ------------------------------------ > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when > replying, Thank You. > ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> > ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> > PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is > NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of > the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new > subject (was re: old subject)" <- > <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. > , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. > > If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of > unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by > clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the home page.  > > Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com > to receive the digest, which includes up to 25 posts at a > time in a single email > > Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com > for the No E-Mail option where you will still be able to > read messages on the group and post replies. > > Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com > to receive individual e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links > > >     mailto:AquaticLife-fullfeatured@yahoogroups.com > > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 43803	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 10/14/2009
Subject: Re: snails

The best prices on test kits are through Walmart.com. They have either the API (Aquarium Pharmaceuticals, Inc.) or Tetratest-Laborette for around $17.00 or $15.00 respectively, with free shipping to your local WalMart store. For your current needs about hardness levels for snails, the T-L kit would be best since it includes test kits for GH and KH levels but the T-L kit does not have a Nitrate test kit. The API has the nitrate but not the GH or KH kits. They both have kits for ammonia, nitrite and pH. You can always buy a separate API Nitrate test kit at a later time for around $5.00. Of course, since you are having algae issues, the nitrate kit could be useful now since you could have high nitrate levels causing the algae issue so you may want to track down an API nitrate test kit if you get the T-L kit or an API GH/KH combo kit if you get the API kit from Walmart.com. As far as your fixed income... be glad you're getting your retirement/social security. At the current pace of America's governmental growth and debt, the rest of us probably won't. :-( Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of toddswoman496861@... Sent: Wednesday, October 14, 2009 11:45 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] snails not sure of base line or water parameters as I havent had a chance to get ahold of a friend who has a test kit. Will be able toget one this next payday. I would say i had the snails maybe a week before I noticed 2 of them were gone and ate up. I believe the algae eater fish is either a siamese algae eater or chinese alagae eater. The store just listed them as algae eater fish. I use a declore product that removes cholrine, chloromide(SP?) and heavy metals. I know it is well water we have. and i do i would say 50% water changes (30 gallon Tank) every week, Clean the filters out by rinsing them in the water that is in the tank, and wash with plain water once a month the plastic parts of the filter to help keepthe pond snails from getting out of hand. I hate being on a fixed income. Kate Dale -----Original Message----- From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@...> To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Tue, Oct 13, 2009 8:37 pm Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] snails What are your baseline tap water parameters and tank's parameters for pH, GH and KH? And ammonia, nitrite, nitrate while you're at it. While cuttlebone is a good thing to use if one has soft, acidic water, if you did not use enough to raise your hardness level, then it may not have been enough. Only testing before, during and after would give us the information needed. What kind of algae did you have? While algae eating fish will eat some kinds of algae and some snails will eat some kinds of algae, neither will eat all kings of algae. How long did you have the 3 snails and how long before two died? Were you using any other chemicals or additives in your tank besides a basic dechlor product? What kind of algae eating fish did you get? There are literally dozens of different commonly available species that fall into that category. As far as what ate the dead snails... the answer it probably every living thing in your tank... from the fish to the other snails to the micro-organisms. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of toddswoman496861@... Sent: Tuesday, October 13, 2009 6:56 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] snails I noticed I was having an algae problem that was getting out of hand so i went and got 3 mystery snails. They were doing good for a while then 2 of them looked like they were in the dormant or sleeping stage. The other day i was looking at the tank and i noticed the 2 that i thought were sleeping that all was left of them was an empty shell. I do have a piece of cuttle bone in the filter to make sure that there is enough calcium. I have guppies and went and gt an algae eating fish. I do have pond snails(not sure what else to call them) they are small. Could the pond snails have eaten the 2 mystery snails? The third one is doing great. Kate Dale

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 43804	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 10/14/2009
Subject: Re: Green water continued

What do you mean by "killing the light"? You aren't running the light 24/7, are you? If you are, then that is likely the cause of your algae issues. If you aren't, tell us your current lighting schedule. I run my lights for around 8-9 hours a day and try to mimic a natural day. Around 7 A.M., I turn on a normal room light (sunrise), then around 9 A.M., my main tank lights come on till around 5-6 P.M. (day time), when I turn them off with only a room light left on and then around 7-8 P.M. (sunset), the room light goes off so the room is mostly dark except for either or both of my computer/TV monitors (moonlight ;-)) Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Lainey Alexander Sent: Wednesday, October 14, 2009 10:31 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: Green water continued Thanks for this feedback, John, it sounds very reasonable. Tank is not by a window, but probably I need to be patient. Since my plants are very newly planted and not even rooted in some cases, I worry about killing the light at this stage... I am not overfeeding, in fact I may be underfeeding as my nitrates are zero. But I think I am doing it correctly?: feed twice a day food enough that it is all eaten in about five minutes. I took the driftwood out of the tank so I don't have to factor it into the current water problem, will retry this later. Lainey http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com On Oct 13, 2009, at 10:34 AM, creatureproductions wrote: > > Hello: > All you have to really do is cut back on the amount of light the tank > receives until the algae bloom in the water comes under control. If > the tank is by a window then you're getting double light from both the > window and tank lights. Cut the tank lights to > 7-8 hours a day and just monitor the plants for signs of stress. > Some plants can easily tolerate six hours a day. As the water clears > you can play with your day/night cycle until you get a good mix. You > can adjust the lights to be on at best times of the day for tank > viewing. > Also, overfeeding the fish along with too much light can also lead to > an algae bloom. Cut back a little on food and just monitor the tank. > This will take a few weeks so patience is needed. Just be sure to keep > up on the 25% water changes every week. The tannins from the driftwood > are a way of life and after a time will balance out but that takes a > little while. With a little exzperimenting of day/ night cycles you'll > find the right balance. > Good Luck and...Have a Great Day!!! > John > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, Lainey Alexander <lainealex@...> > wrote: > > > > Hi again - > > > > Today I can clearly see that my tank is having an algae bloom and is > > very green, getting greener all the time. I still have zero readings > > for phosphate, nitrate, nitrite and ammonia. Everything I am reading > > says I have to turn off the lights for several days, but I am not > > sure my newly planted plants will endure this. I am trying to search > > planted tank forum but the search isn't working. > > > > Does anyone have direct experience of green water in a new tank? > Do I > > need to turn off the lights? Nothing I read seems to indicate that > > this problem will go away on its own. > > > > I don't have the type of cloudiness that seems to be bacterial, mine > > is really green - looks just awful! > > > > Thanks for everything... > > > > Lainey > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] ------------------------------------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the home page. Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com to receive the digest, which includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com for the No E-Mail option where you will still be able to read messages on the group and post replies. Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com to receive individual e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 43805	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 10/14/2009
Subject: Re: Green water continued

I am pretty sure in a previous post she said she's running her lights for 12 hours a day, this was her post below: -Cut and pasted- Tank measurements are 30 high, 23 wide and 12 deep. Fluorescent lights, 2 @65 watts and 6700k - on 12 and off 12 which is what I have been told my plants require... I used Activ-Flora gravel, and this contains non-nitrogen fertilizer plus "instant-cycling" bacteria Not dosing with any chemicals or ferts -end cut and paste She also said she turned her lights off for 2 days, which you should be careful doing with live plants, don't want to kill them. Just wait it out, it WILL go away, but it may take 2-3 weeks depending on your bioload and such. I also agree that your tank is way over stocked, I would return all the "algae eaters" myself, since you are not sure which kind they are, one species eats the slime coat off of other fish when it's full grown, the other is harmless but still grows fairly large for such a small tank and you would have to trade it in eventually anyways. If you rush and change all the water you will most likely kill all your fish, just like I've done in the past when I had a green algae suspended in my water column. The best way to deal with it is clean your filter like you normally do, but clean it every few days, and do smaller than normal water changes every few days, or at most 10% a day if you feel you really need to add fresh water, but keep in mind you will be taking out nutrients for your plants along with the algae when you remove the tank water and add fresh water, so your plants may start to suffer if they need higher nitrates to thrive. Amber Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > > > What do you mean by "killing the light"? You aren't running the light > 24/7, > are you? If you are, then that is likely the cause of your algae issues. > If you aren't, tell us your current lighting schedule. > > I run my lights for around 8-9 hours a day and try to mimic a natural day. > Around 7 A.M., I turn on a normal room light (sunrise), then around 9 > A.M., > my main tank lights come on till around 5-6 P.M. (day time), when I turn > them off with only a room light left on and then around 7-8 P.M. (sunset), > the room light goes off so the room is mostly dark except for either > or both > of my computer/TV monitors (moonlight ;-)) > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right > side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On > Behalf Of Lainey Alexander > Sent: Wednesday, October 14, 2009 10:31 AM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: Green water continued > > Thanks for this feedback, John, it sounds very reasonable. Tank is not > by a > window, but probably I need to be patient. Since my plants are very newly > planted and not even rooted in some cases, I worry about killing the light > at this stage... > > I am not overfeeding, in fact I may be underfeeding as my nitrates are > zero. > But I think I am doing it correctly?: feed twice a day food enough that it > is all eaten in about five minutes. > > I took the driftwood out of the tank so I don't have to factor it into the > current water problem, will retry this later. > > Lainey > http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com <http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com> > > On Oct 13, 2009, at 10:34 AM, creatureproductions wrote: > > > > > Hello: > > All you have to really do is cut back on the amount of light the tank > > receives until the algae bloom in the water comes under control. If > > the tank is by a window then you're getting double light from both the > > window and tank lights. Cut the tank lights to > > 7-8 hours a day and just monitor the plants for signs of stress. > > Some plants can easily tolerate six hours a day. As the water clears > > you can play with your day/night cycle until you get a good mix. You > > can adjust the lights to be on at best times of the day for tank > > viewing. > > Also, overfeeding the fish along with too much light can also lead to > > an algae bloom. Cut back a little on food and just monitor the tank. > > This will take a few weeks so patience is needed. Just be sure to keep > > up on the 25% water changes every week. The tannins from the driftwood > > are a way of life and after a time will balance out but that takes a > > little while. With a little exzperimenting of day/ night cycles you'll > > find the right balance. > > Good Luck and...Have a Great Day!!! > > John > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>, Lainey Alexander <lainealex@...> > > wrote: > > > > > > Hi again - > > > > > > Today I can clearly see that my tank is having an algae bloom and is > > > very green, getting greener all the time. I still have zero readings > > > for phosphate, nitrate, nitrite and ammonia. Everything I am reading > > > says I have to turn off the lights for several days, but I am not > > > sure my newly planted plants will endure this. I am trying to search > > > planted tank forum but the search isn't working. > > > > > > Does anyone have direct experience of green water in a new tank? > > Do I > > > need to turn off the lights? Nothing I read seems to indicate that > > > this problem will go away on its own. > > > > > > I don't have the type of cloudiness that seems to be bacterial, mine > > > is really green - looks just awful! > > > > > > Thanks for everything... > > > > > > Lainey > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > ------------------------------------ > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. > ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> > PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to > the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the > SUBJECT > LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- > <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. > > If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of unsubscribing, you > can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the > home page. > > Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:aquaticlife-digest%40yahoogroups.com> to receive the digest, which > includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email > > Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:aquaticlife-nomail%40yahoogroups.com> for the No E-Mail option > where > you will still be able to read messages on the group and post replies. > > Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:aquaticlife-normal%40yahoogroups.com> to receive individual > e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 43806	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 10/14/2009
Subject: Re: Green water continued

As you'll see in my previous post a few minutes ago, I think 12 hours on is TOO MUCH... but read on to my thoughts in the next paragraph. In nature, NO underwater plant gets that much light. Most freshwater streams/lakes are usually surrounded by trees so they do not even get any real sun until the sun is pretty high up in the sky and then when the sun starts to set the light diminishes quickly as well. They probably only get 6 hours of full lighting in nature. Are your lights regular fluorescent tubes or compact fluorescent tubes (CFL's)? If regular fluorescent bulbs, then you have around 2 watts per gallon which is a mid-level amount but I want to double check your tank measurements. Is your tank really 30" tall (high)? If so, then you have a standard 37G TALL tank which is based on the same 24" x 12" footprint as a standard 20G and a 29G tank except the 29G is taller than the 20G and the 37G is much taller than the 20G. Deep tanks like this are much harder to grow some plants as normal lighting is not able to pierce down deep enough into the water to provide sufficient lighting to bottom level plants. You could either plant some of your plants in clay pots and/or put them on shelves to raise them closer to the lighting or the more expensive route would be to go with halogen or LED lighting which puts out more of beam of light that pierces the water better... but those are EXPENSIVE. A lower priced CFL lighting system puts out more light/lumens than regular fluorescent bulbs and they usually come with more advance reflectors to try and direct the light down deeper into a tank. Most fluorescent light fixtures just have simple reflectors so the light is a much wider angle. This could be why you are getting algae in the water column that is outcompeting some of your bottom level plants since the water column algae is closer to the light and then the green water will further block the light from the bottom level plants. YOU DO NOT need UV filtration. I HATE stores that try to push that on people. Yes, a UV filter will kill water column algae but it will also kill all other water column life forms that make up the ecology of your tank, throwing off the rest of your ecosystem. The UV will not solve the problem(s) that are causing the green water algae in the first place. UV filtration was developed to kill water borne pathogens and parasites in tanks that were suffering health problems but a side effect was also the killing of green water suspended algae so the UV filter people started marketing their systems for this purpose without telling people all of the downsides of killing this algae without solving the problem(s) first. If folks have high CO2 levels, low O2 levels, high phosphorous or nitrogenous compound issues and do not solve these problems first, then when they kill off all of the green water algae, they turn their tanks into killing zones. God created green water algae as a way to save fish from mildly polluted waters, like is often found in our tanks. The green algae is like a mine canary and warns us of a likely problem. Solve the problem and the green water algae goes away on its own. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Lainey Alexander Sent: Wednesday, October 14, 2009 10:27 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Green water continued Tank measurements are 30 high, 23 wide and 12 deep. Fluorescent lights, 2 @65 watts and 6700k - on 12 and off 12 which is what I have been told my plants require... I used Activ-Flora gravel, and this contains non-nitrogen fertilizer plus "instant-cycling" bacteria Not dosing with any chemicals or ferts *** I went to a couple LFSs yesterday (Boston) and it seems to be confirmed that I have green water algae bloom. Most people are thinking it was caused because I added about two inches of gravel a week ago, the above dubious stuff - and this somehow set things off. I used this same gravel in the tank set up and things were fine, but now maybe it created imbalance. I had run out of enough gravel when I set the tank up five or six weeks ago, had to reorder and thus the lag in applying it. Everyone I talk to is recommending UV to kill the algae so the plants will be able to thrive. Since my nitrates are at zero, people seem to think the algae is probably robbing a lot of the nutrients from the plants at this point. I tried lights off for two days but did not see much change... Lainey http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com On Oct 13, 2009, at 1:14 AM, Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > OK. Give us more details on your planted tank set up. > > Algae problems are usually cause when there is too much of an > imbalance of the trilogy (lighting, nutrients, CO2). > > What size tank, how many gallons, measurements (especially how tall)? > > What kind of lighting (fluorescent, CFL's, other)? How many watts? How > long are you running them each day? > > What kind of substrate did you use? > > Are you dosing with any kind of fertilizers or other chemicals? > > This could have been brought on from when you were moving the CO2 > injector around and that could have thrown things out of balance.. but > since your tank is still pretty new, it's expected to go out of > balance a few times until you figure things out. > > Here's a few long and detailed articles, or pages with a list of > articles on planted tanks. > > I gave you this one a couple of days ago but here it is again since > it's a good article. > http://www.americanaquariumproducts.com/AquariumPlants.html > > http://www.csd.net/~cgadd/aqua/articles.htm (all good articles) > > Things that can go wrong - part I (article from Tropical Fish Hobbyist > magazine) > http://naturalaquariums.com/plantedtank/0509.html > > Things that can go wrong - part II (mainly about algae issues) > http://naturalaquariums.com/plantedtank/0510.html > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles > referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically > under Labels and also under Archives by Year, > Month) > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Lainey Alexander > Sent: Monday, October 12, 2009 8:38 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Subject: [AquaticLife] Green water continued > > Hi again - > > Today I can clearly see that my tank is having an algae bloom and is > very green, getting greener all the time. I still have zero readings > for phosphate, nitrate, nitrite and ammonia. Everything I am reading > says I have to turn off the lights for several days, but I am not sure > my newly planted plants will endure this. I am trying to search > planted tank forum but the search isn't working. > > Does anyone have direct experience of green water in a new tank? Do I > need to turn off the lights? Nothing I read seems to indicate that > this problem will go away on its own. > > I don't have the type of cloudiness that seems to be bacterial, mine > is really green - looks just awful! > > Thanks for everything... > > Lainey

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 43807	From: biG poppa	Date: 10/14/2009
Subject: Re: GRR, I hate my electric company!

interesting Lenny so your in the same line of work as me..maybe we should chat some time. --- On Wed, 10/14/09, bill 1433 <warrenprint@...> wrote: From: bill 1433 <warrenprint@...> Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: GRR, I hate my electric company! To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Date: Wednesday, October 14, 2009, 5:06 PM   Lenny! I'm quite sure you would be interested to know that there is currently a government agency which will do this very thing for you! W.P.P.= Witness Protection Program Bill----ps goggle maps! I found what I wanted to know! --- On Wed, 10/14/09, Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@gmail. com> wrote: > From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@gmail. com> > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: GRR, I hate my electric company! > To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com > Date: Wednesday, October 14, 2009, 4:40 PM > Amber, > > My previous business for 16 years, prior to Katrina, was a > private > investigator biz, so yes, I was a paid peeping-tom for many > years. ;-)  So, > as far as finding your home, that's easy... if I wanted to > do it. LOL  Most > people, including myself, post enough stuff online that > once all that is > combined, it's not hard to fill in a few blanks after > checking a few > government offices for other public info.  > > That's what is getting so many people in trouble with > colleges and jobs > nowadays since there's so much out there.... and if I can't > find very much > on someone, then I get suspicious as to why they're being > so secretive... > damned if you do, damned if you don't! LOL > > From about 1990 thru 2000, I intentionally use to put out > mis-information > about myself, my family, etc., all over the net so that > someone digging up > info on me would have lots of trash to go through to find > out the legitimate > info on me and my family.  Now that I'm out of that > business, I do not worry > as much since I'm not ruining some people's lives any > longer so I've cleaned > up most of that mis-information that I could find.  > That was the downside of > working in the legal industry... when your side wins, that > means there's a > BIG loser on the other side and you never know who they're > going to blame. > Usually the lawyers or the Judges got the blame since I > worked behind the > scenes... but occasionally my name would become an integral > part of the case > and then I'd get my share of threats. > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com > (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed > on the right > side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives > by Year, Month) > > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com > [mailto:AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com] > On > Behalf Of Amber Berglund > Sent: Wednesday, October 14, 2009 10:38 AM > To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: GRR, I hate my electric > company! > > If Lenny knows where my house is I may just have to report > him as a Stalker > ;) LOL. > Show him our fancy airport Lenny ;) > > Amber > > bill 1433 wrote: > >  > > > > Len, > >  > > I was most interested in your comments about the use > of Google Earth.  > > I have not tried it but would like too. > > I'm afraid they don't show much in examples of what > you could or > > should see?  Can you send me, off-list, a > screen-shot so I can judge > > for myself if its worth the effort?  Just pick a > place of interest. > > How about Amber's House? <G> Why not? > >  > > Bill > > > > --- On Tue, 10/13/09, Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@gmail. com > > > <mailto:GoldLenny% 40gmail.com> > wrote: > > > > From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@gmail. com > > > <mailto:GoldLenny% 40gmail.com> > > > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: GRR, I hate my electric > company! > > To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com > <mailto:AquaticLife %40yahoogroups. com> > > Date: Tuesday, October 13, 2009, 11:58 PM > > > > Nope.  I Google Earth'ed you a while back when we > were talking about > > your island. LOL  I also flew over to that > volcano across the bay to > > check that area out too.  I haven't been on > Google Earth the past > > couple of weeks but I hear that new satellite they > launched last week > > is going to give even better imaging to Google Earth > and Google Maps.  > > They might even have the street labels better for your > island so the > > international airport doesn't look like a dirt road > and a helipad like > > it did the last time I flew over your area.... with > Google Earth.  > > Hopefully, with that new satellite, I might finally be > able to check > > out my bikini clad neighbor babe with the 12' > > solid > > vinyl fence. ;-)  Dang... what ever happened to > real wood with knot holes. > > LOL > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com > > <http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com> (Links > to any articles referenced in > > above reply are listed on the right side, > alphabetically under Labels > > and also under Archives by Year, Month) > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com > > <mailto:AquaticLife %40yahoogroups. com> > > [mailto:AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com > > <mailto:AquaticLife %40yahoogroups. com>] On > Behalf Of Amber Berglund > > Sent: Tuesday, October 13, 2009 10:44 PM > > To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com > <mailto:AquaticLife %40yahoogroups. com> > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: GRR, I hate my electric > company! > > > > Wait, how do _you_ know it's bigger than Gilligan's > Island, did you > > get a special invite one day to take a three hour > tour? ;) LOL > > > > Amber > > > > Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > > > > > > > > > John, > > > > > > I think you're kind of new out here so you may > not realize it yet > > > but Amber lives on an island up in Alaska... > bigger than Gilligan's > > > Island but not a BIG city either so her options > aren't the same as > > > for the rest of us. But there certainly could be > a lighting center > > > or the lighting department at a BIG BOX home > repair center that > > > might have a knowledgeable person. I think once > she opens up the top > > > of the light fixture, the problem will probably > present itself with > > > something that shows burn damage. > > > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com > > <http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com> > > > <http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com <http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com>> > > (Links to any articles referenced in > > > above reply are listed on the right side, > alphabetically under > > > Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) > > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > From: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife %40yahoogroups. com> > > > <mailto:AquaticLife %40yahoogroups. com> > > > [mailto:AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com > > <mailto:AquaticLife %40yahoogroups. com> > > > <mailto:AquaticLife %40yahoogroups. com>] On > Behalf Of > > > creatureproductions > > > Sent: Tuesday, October 13, 2009 9:19 PM > > > To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com > > <mailto:AquaticLife %40yahoogroups. com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife %40yahoogroups. com> > > > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: GRR, I hate my > electric company! > > > > > > Hello: > > > Take the light to a store. They'll tell you if > it's a starter, > > > ballast, oe needs to be replaced. Most stores > seem to be honest > > about it. > > > Good Luck!!! > > > John > > > > > > --- In AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com > > <mailto:AquaticLife %40yahoogroups. com> > > > <mailto:AquaticLife %40yahoogroups. com>, > Amber Berglund > > > <arberglund@ ...> wrote: > > > > > > > > Okay, so today the power went out for a few > hours. My problem lies > > > > in the fact that my light fixture no longer > works after today's > > > > power > > > outage. > > > > I emailed aquatic life to see if there's a > fuse or something that > > > > I need to replace. I tried different outlets > to make sure the > > > > outlet wasn't bad somehow and it still does > not turn on, no > > > > lights, no humming, nothing but silence. > Thankfully the tank is > > > > next to the window and I opened the curtains > so the plants can > > > > still get light through the day, but I need > to get this fixed ASAP > > > > and I don't want to have to buy a new light > fixture, does anyone > > > > have any tips/advice > > > for me?? > > > > It is an aquatic life PowerCompact CF light > fixture with 4 x 65 > > > > watt CFL bulbs and LED moon lights, and a > built in timer, very > > > > nice light, I love it but I miss it already, > LOL. > > > > > > > > Thanks, > > > > Amber > > > > ------------ --------- --------- ------ > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when > replying, Thank You. > ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> > ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> > PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is > NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of > the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new > subject (was re: old subject)" <- > <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. > , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. > > If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of > unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by > clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the home page.  > > Or e-mail aquaticlife- digest@yahoogrou ps.com > to receive the digest, which includes up to 25 posts at a > time in a single email > > Or email aquaticlife- nomail@yahoogrou ps.com > for the No E-Mail option where you will still be able to > read messages on the group and post replies. > > Or email aquaticlife- normal@yahoogrou ps.com > to receive individual e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links > > >     mailto:AquaticLife- fullfeatured@ yahoogroups. com > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 43808	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 10/14/2009
Subject: Re: GRR, I hate my electric company!

OK. I'll email you a screen shot off-list. You could have said N. 5th St. and W. York St... but don't worry, Google Earth corrected my input. ;-) A couple of screen shots from different altitudes are on it's way via separate email in a few minutes. Google Earth is running slow right now on my main computer since my Mozy Online Backup is running right now. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of bill 1433 Sent: Wednesday, October 14, 2009 3:10 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: GRR, I hate my electric company! No but you check a location? 5th and York Streets Philadelphia, PA Bill --- On Wed, 10/14/09, Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@...> wrote: > From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@...> > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: GRR, I hate my electric company! > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Date: Wednesday, October 14, 2009, 3:55 PM Amendment to earlier > reply... > > Of course, if you want to send me your address off-list, I'll see how > good I can see your house and send you a screen shot. ;-)  Of course, > Google Maps and the Street Views probably gives the best images of > homes/businesses nowadays since Google equipped vans to drive up and > down every street in most cities in America (and possibly elsewhere) > and these vans took 360 photos every 50 feet or so, so you can view > these images and dial around to see your house, the houses next door, > across the street, cars parked in the neighborhood, etc.  They do have > technology to blur faces and license plates but everything else is > pretty clear. > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles > referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically > under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) > > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] > On > Behalf Of bill 1433 > Sent: Wednesday, October 14, 2009 10:31 AM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: GRR, I hate my electric > company! > > Len, >   > I was most interested in your comments about the use of > Google Earth.  I > have not tried it but would like too. > I'm afraid they don't show much in examples of what you > could or should > see?  Can you send me, off-list, a screen-shot so I can > judge for myself if > its worth the effort?  Just pick a place of interest. > How about Amber's House? <G>  Why not? >   > Bill > > --- On Tue, 10/13/09, Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@...> > wrote: > > > From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@...> > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: GRR, I hate my electric > company! > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Date: Tuesday, October 13, 2009, 11:58 PM > > > Nope.  I Google Earth'ed you a while back when we were > talking about your > island. LOL  I also flew over to that volcano across the > bay to check that > area out too.  I haven't been on Google Earth the past > couple of weeks but I > hear that new satellite they launched last week is going to > give even better > imaging to Google Earth and Google Maps.  They might even > have the street > labels better for your island so the international airport > doesn't look like > a dirt road and a helipad like it did the last time I flew > over your > area.... with Google Earth.  Hopefully, with that new > satellite, I might > finally be able to check out my bikini clad neighbor babe > with the 12' solid > vinyl fence. ;-)  Dang... what ever happened to real wood > with knot holes. > LOL > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to > any articles referenced > in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically > under Labels and > also under Archives by Year, Month) > > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] > On > Behalf Of Amber Berglund > Sent: Tuesday, October 13, 2009 10:44 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: GRR, I hate my electric > company! > > Wait, how do _you_ know it's bigger than Gilligan's Island, > did you get a > special invite one day to take a three hour tour? ;) LOL > > Amber > > Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > >  > > > > John, > > > > I think you're kind of new out here so you may not > realize it yet but > > Amber lives on an island up in Alaska... bigger than > Gilligan's Island > > but not a BIG city either so her options aren't the > same as for the > > rest of us. But there certainly could be a lighting > center or the > > lighting department at a BIG BOX home repair center > that might have a > > knowledgeable person. I think once she opens up the > top of the light > > fixture, the problem will probably present itself with > something that > > shows burn damage. > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> (Links > to any articles referenced in > > above reply are listed on the right side, > alphabetically under Labels > > and also under Archives by Year, Month) > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On > Behalf Of > > creatureproductions > > Sent: Tuesday, October 13, 2009 9:19 PM > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: GRR, I hate my electric > company! > > > > Hello: > > Take the light to a store. They'll tell you if it's a > starter, > > ballast, oe needs to be replaced. Most stores seem to > be honest about it. > > Good Luck!!! > > John > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>, Amber > Berglund > > <arberglund@...> wrote: > > > > > > Okay, so today the power went out for a few > hours. My problem lies > > > in the fact that my light fixture no longer works > after today's > > > power > > outage. > > > I emailed aquatic life to see if there's a fuse > or something that I > > > need to replace. I tried different outlets to > make sure the outlet > > > wasn't bad somehow and it still does not turn on, > no lights, no > > > humming, nothing but silence. Thankfully the tank > is next to the > > > window and I opened the curtains so the plants > can still get light > > > through the day, but I need to get this fixed > ASAP and I don't want > > > to have to buy a new light fixture, does anyone > have any tips/advice > > for me?? > > > It is an aquatic life PowerCompact CF light > fixture with 4 x 65 watt > > > CFL bulbs and LED moon lights, and a built in > timer, very nice > > > light, I love it but I miss it already, LOL. > > > > > > Thanks, > > > Amber > > > > > ------------------------------------ > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when > replying, Thank You. > ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> > ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> > PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is > NOT important to > the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original > message MODIFY the SUBJECT > LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- > <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. > , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. > > If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of > unsubscribing, you > can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My > Membership" on the > home page.  > > Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com > to receive the digest, which > includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email > > Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com > for the No E-Mail option where > you will still be able to read messages on the group and > post replies. > > Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com > to receive individual > e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > >       > > > ------------------------------------ > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when > replying, Thank You. > ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> > ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> > PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is > NOT important to > the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original > message MODIFY the SUBJECT > LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- > <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. > , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. > > If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of > unsubscribing, you > can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My > Membership" on the > home page.  > > Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com > to receive the digest, which > includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email > > Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com > for the No E-Mail option where > you will still be able to read messages on the group and > post replies. > > Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com > to receive individual > e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > ------------------------------------ > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when > replying, Thank You. > ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> > ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> > PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is > NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of > the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new > subject (was re: old subject)" <- > <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. > , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. > > If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of > unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by > clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the home page.  > > Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com > to receive the digest, which includes up to 25 posts at a > time in a single email > > Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com > for the No E-Mail option where you will still be able to > read messages on the group and post replies. > > Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com > to receive individual e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links > > >     mailto:AquaticLife-fullfeatured@yahoogroups.com > > > ------------------------------------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the home page. Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com to receive the digest, which includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com for the No E-Mail option where you will still be able to read messages on the group and post replies. Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com to receive individual e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 43809	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 10/14/2009
Subject: Re: GRR, I hate my electric company!

OK.. the off-list email was sent with six photos attached. They are decent sized images 140-300KB each. I didn't want to resize them so you could get a decent image on your computer. You really need to test fly Google Earth yourself to get the true benefits. These screen shots only go so far. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of bill 1433 Sent: Wednesday, October 14, 2009 3:10 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: GRR, I hate my electric company! No but you check a location? 5th and York Streets Philadelphia, PA Bill --- On Wed, 10/14/09, Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@...> wrote: > From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@...> > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: GRR, I hate my electric company! > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Date: Wednesday, October 14, 2009, 3:55 PM Amendment to earlier > reply... > > Of course, if you want to send me your address off-list, I'll see how > good I can see your house and send you a screen shot. ;-)  Of course, > Google Maps and the Street Views probably gives the best images of > homes/businesses nowadays since Google equipped vans to drive up and > down every street in most cities in America (and possibly elsewhere) > and these vans took 360 photos every 50 feet or so, so you can view > these images and dial around to see your house, the houses next door, > across the street, cars parked in the neighborhood, etc.  They do have > technology to blur faces and license plates but everything else is > pretty clear. > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles > referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically > under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) > > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] > On > Behalf Of bill 1433 > Sent: Wednesday, October 14, 2009 10:31 AM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: GRR, I hate my electric > company! > > Len, >   > I was most interested in your comments about the use of > Google Earth.  I > have not tried it but would like too. > I'm afraid they don't show much in examples of what you > could or should > see?  Can you send me, off-list, a screen-shot so I can > judge for myself if > its worth the effort?  Just pick a place of interest. > How about Amber's House? <G>  Why not? >   > Bill > > --- On Tue, 10/13/09, Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@...> > wrote: > > > From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@...> > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: GRR, I hate my electric > company! > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Date: Tuesday, October 13, 2009, 11:58 PM > > > Nope.  I Google Earth'ed you a while back when we were > talking about your > island. LOL  I also flew over to that volcano across the > bay to check that > area out too.  I haven't been on Google Earth the past > couple of weeks but I > hear that new satellite they launched last week is going to > give even better > imaging to Google Earth and Google Maps.  They might even > have the street > labels better for your island so the international airport > doesn't look like > a dirt road and a helipad like it did the last time I flew > over your > area.... with Google Earth.  Hopefully, with that new > satellite, I might > finally be able to check out my bikini clad neighbor babe > with the 12' solid > vinyl fence. ;-)  Dang... what ever happened to real wood > with knot holes. > LOL > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to > any articles referenced > in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically > under Labels and > also under Archives by Year, Month) > > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] > On > Behalf Of Amber Berglund > Sent: Tuesday, October 13, 2009 10:44 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: GRR, I hate my electric > company! > > Wait, how do _you_ know it's bigger than Gilligan's Island, > did you get a > special invite one day to take a three hour tour? ;) LOL > > Amber > > Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > >  > > > > John, > > > > I think you're kind of new out here so you may not > realize it yet but > > Amber lives on an island up in Alaska... bigger than > Gilligan's Island > > but not a BIG city either so her options aren't the > same as for the > > rest of us. But there certainly could be a lighting > center or the > > lighting department at a BIG BOX home repair center > that might have a > > knowledgeable person. I think once she opens up the > top of the light > > fixture, the problem will probably present itself with > something that > > shows burn damage. > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> (Links > to any articles referenced in > > above reply are listed on the right side, > alphabetically under Labels > > and also under Archives by Year, Month) > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On > Behalf Of > > creatureproductions > > Sent: Tuesday, October 13, 2009 9:19 PM > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: GRR, I hate my electric > company! > > > > Hello: > > Take the light to a store. They'll tell you if it's a > starter, > > ballast, oe needs to be replaced. Most stores seem to > be honest about it. > > Good Luck!!! > > John > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>, Amber > Berglund > > <arberglund@...> wrote: > > > > > > Okay, so today the power went out for a few > hours. My problem lies > > > in the fact that my light fixture no longer works > after today's > > > power > > outage. > > > I emailed aquatic life to see if there's a fuse > or something that I > > > need to replace. I tried different outlets to > make sure the outlet > > > wasn't bad somehow and it still does not turn on, > no lights, no > > > humming, nothing but silence. Thankfully the tank > is next to the > > > window and I opened the curtains so the plants > can still get light > > > through the day, but I need to get this fixed > ASAP and I don't want > > > to have to buy a new light fixture, does anyone > have any tips/advice > > for me?? > > > It is an aquatic life PowerCompact CF light > fixture with 4 x 65 watt > > > CFL bulbs and LED moon lights, and a built in > timer, very nice > > > light, I love it but I miss it already, LOL. > > > > > > Thanks, > > > Amber > > > > > ------------------------------------ > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when > replying, Thank You. > ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> > ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> > PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is > NOT important to > the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original > message MODIFY the SUBJECT > LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- > <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. > , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. > > If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of > unsubscribing, you > can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My > Membership" on the > home page.  > > Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com > to receive the digest, which > includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email > > Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com > for the No E-Mail option where > you will still be able to read messages on the group and > post replies. > > Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com > to receive individual > e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > >       > > > ------------------------------------ > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when > replying, Thank You. > ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> > ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> > PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is > NOT important to > the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original > message MODIFY the SUBJECT > LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- > <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. > , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. > > If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of > unsubscribing, you > can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My > Membership" on the > home page.  > > Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com > to receive the digest, which > includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email > > Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com > for the No E-Mail option where > you will still be able to read messages on the group and > post replies. > > Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com > to receive individual > e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > ------------------------------------ > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when > replying, Thank You. > ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> > ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> > PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is > NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of > the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new > subject (was re: old subject)" <- > <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. > , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. > > If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of > unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by > clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the home page.  > > Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com > to receive the digest, which includes up to 25 posts at a > time in a single email > > Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com > for the No E-Mail option where you will still be able to > read messages on the group and post replies. > > Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com > to receive individual e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links > > >     mailto:AquaticLife-fullfeatured@yahoogroups.com > > > ------------------------------------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the home page. Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com to receive the digest, which includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com for the No E-Mail option where you will still be able to read messages on the group and post replies. Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com to receive individual e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 43810	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 10/14/2009
Subject: Re: GRR, I hate my electric company!

Yes, Google Maps, as I mentioned, works off of the Google Earth technology but it's not nearly as good. But for quick locations and street views, I do use Google Maps. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of bill 1433 Sent: Wednesday, October 14, 2009 4:07 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: GRR, I hate my electric company! Lenny! I'm quite sure you would be interested to know that there is currently a government agency which will do this very thing for you! W.P.P.= Witness Protection Program Bill----ps goggle maps! I found what I wanted to know! --- On Wed, 10/14/09, Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@...> wrote: > From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@...> > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: GRR, I hate my electric company! > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Date: Wednesday, October 14, 2009, 4:40 PM Amber, > > My previous business for 16 years, prior to Katrina, was a private > investigator biz, so yes, I was a paid peeping-tom for many years. ;-)  > So, as far as finding your home, that's easy... if I wanted to do it. > LOL  Most people, including myself, post enough stuff online that once > all that is combined, it's not hard to fill in a few blanks after > checking a few government offices for other public info. > > That's what is getting so many people in trouble with colleges and > jobs nowadays since there's so much out there.... and if I can't find > very much on someone, then I get suspicious as to why they're being so > secretive... > damned if you do, damned if you don't! LOL > > From about 1990 thru 2000, I intentionally use to put out > mis-information about myself, my family, etc., all over the net so > that someone digging up info on me would have lots of trash to go > through to find out the legitimate info on me and my family.  Now that > I'm out of that business, I do not worry as much since I'm not ruining > some people's lives any longer so I've cleaned up most of that > mis-information that I could find. > That was the downside of > working in the legal industry... when your side wins, that means > there's a BIG loser on the other side and you never know who they're > going to blame. > Usually the lawyers or the Judges got the blame since I worked behind > the scenes... but occasionally my name would become an integral part > of the case and then I'd get my share of threats. > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles > referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically > under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) > > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] > On > Behalf Of Amber Berglund > Sent: Wednesday, October 14, 2009 10:38 AM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: GRR, I hate my electric > company! > > If Lenny knows where my house is I may just have to report > him as a Stalker > ;) LOL. > Show him our fancy airport Lenny ;) > > Amber > > bill 1433 wrote: > >  > > > > Len, > >  > > I was most interested in your comments about the use > of Google Earth.  > > I have not tried it but would like too. > > I'm afraid they don't show much in examples of what > you could or > > should see?  Can you send me, off-list, a > screen-shot so I can judge > > for myself if its worth the effort?  Just pick a > place of interest. > > How about Amber's House? <G> Why not? > >  > > Bill > > > > --- On Tue, 10/13/09, Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@... > > > <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com>> wrote: > > > > From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@... > > > <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com>> > > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: GRR, I hate my electric > company! > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > Date: Tuesday, October 13, 2009, 11:58 PM > > > > Nope.  I Google Earth'ed you a while back when we > were talking about > > your island. LOL  I also flew over to that > volcano across the bay to > > check that area out too.  I haven't been on > Google Earth the past > > couple of weeks but I hear that new satellite they > launched last week > > is going to give even better imaging to Google Earth > and Google Maps.  > > They might even have the street labels better for your > island so the > > international airport doesn't look like a dirt road > and a helipad like > > it did the last time I flew over your area.... with > Google Earth.  > > Hopefully, with that new satellite, I might finally be > able to check > > out my bikini clad neighbor babe with the 12' > > solid > > vinyl fence. ;-)  Dang... what ever happened to > real wood with knot holes. > > LOL > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> (Links > to any articles referenced in > > above reply are listed on the right side, > alphabetically under Labels > > and also under Archives by Year, Month) > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On > Behalf Of Amber Berglund > > Sent: Tuesday, October 13, 2009 10:44 PM > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: GRR, I hate my electric > company! > > > > Wait, how do _you_ know it's bigger than Gilligan's > Island, did you > > get a special invite one day to take a three hour > tour? ;) LOL > > > > Amber > > > > Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > > > > > > > > > John, > > > > > > I think you're kind of new out here so you may > not realize it yet > > > but Amber lives on an island up in Alaska... > bigger than Gilligan's > > > Island but not a BIG city either so her options > aren't the same as > > > for the rest of us. But there certainly could be > a lighting center > > > or the lighting department at a BIG BOX home > repair center that > > > might have a knowledgeable person. I think once > she opens up the top > > > of the light fixture, the problem will probably > present itself with > > > something that shows burn damage. > > > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>> > > (Links to any articles referenced in > > > above reply are listed on the right side, > alphabetically under > > > Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) > > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On > Behalf Of > > > creatureproductions > > > Sent: Tuesday, October 13, 2009 9:19 PM > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: GRR, I hate my > electric company! > > > > > > Hello: > > > Take the light to a store. They'll tell you if > it's a starter, > > > ballast, oe needs to be replaced. Most stores > seem to be honest > > about it. > > > Good Luck!!! > > > John > > > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>, > Amber Berglund > > > <arberglund@...> wrote: > > > > > > > > Okay, so today the power went out for a few > hours. My problem lies > > > > in the fact that my light fixture no longer > works after today's > > > > power > > > outage. > > > > I emailed aquatic life to see if there's a > fuse or something that > > > > I need to replace. I tried different outlets > to make sure the > > > > outlet wasn't bad somehow and it still does > not turn on, no > > > > lights, no humming, nothing but silence. > Thankfully the tank is > > > > next to the window and I opened the curtains > so the plants can > > > > still get light through the day, but I need > to get this fixed ASAP > > > > and I don't want to have to buy a new light > fixture, does anyone > > > > have any tips/advice > > > for me?? > > > > It is an aquatic life PowerCompact CF light > fixture with 4 x 65 > > > > watt CFL bulbs and LED moon lights, and a > built in timer, very > > > > nice light, I love it but I miss it already, > LOL. > > > > > > > > Thanks, > > > > Amber > > > > ------------------------------------ > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when > replying, Thank You. > ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> > ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> > PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is > NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of > the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new > subject (was re: old subject)" <- > <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. > , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. > > If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of > unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by > clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the home page.  > > Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com > to receive the digest, which includes up to 25 posts at a > time in a single email > > Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com > for the No E-Mail option where you will still be able to > read messages on the group and post replies. > > Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com > to receive individual e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links > > >     mailto:AquaticLife-fullfeatured@yahoogroups.com > > > ------------------------------------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the home page. Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com to receive the digest, which includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com for the No E-Mail option where you will still be able to read messages on the group and post replies. Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com to receive individual e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 43811	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 10/14/2009
Subject: Re: GRR, I hate my electric company!

Well, I use to be until 2002-2003. After 16 years and not being RICH or seeing RICH on the horizon (I didn't have a red Ferrari, like Magnum, or anything... heck, not even his mustache. LOL), I decided to change business fields and career paths. I'm now a contractor with my own small repair/remodeling company. I actually started the ground work for this back in 2003 but had it on the back burner while I was still doing contracting work in the legal/medical industry... but after Katrina, I move this to the front burner and haven't looked back. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of biG poppa Sent: Wednesday, October 14, 2009 4:57 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: GRR, I hate my electric company! interesting Lenny so your in the same line of work as me..maybe we should chat some time. --- On Wed, 10/14/09, bill 1433 <warrenprint@...> wrote: From: bill 1433 <warrenprint@...> Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: GRR, I hate my electric company! To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Date: Wednesday, October 14, 2009, 5:06 PM   Lenny! I'm quite sure you would be interested to know that there is currently a government agency which will do this very thing for you! W.P.P.= Witness Protection Program Bill----ps goggle maps! I found what I wanted to know! --- On Wed, 10/14/09, Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@gmail. com> wrote: > From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@gmail. com> > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: GRR, I hate my electric company! > To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com > Date: Wednesday, October 14, 2009, 4:40 PM Amber, > > My previous business for 16 years, prior to Katrina, was a private > investigator biz, so yes, I was a paid peeping-tom for many years. ;-)  > So, as far as finding your home, that's easy... if I wanted to do it. > LOL  Most people, including myself, post enough stuff online that once > all that is combined, it's not hard to fill in a few blanks after > checking a few government offices for other public info. > > That's what is getting so many people in trouble with colleges and > jobs nowadays since there's so much out there.... and if I can't find > very much on someone, then I get suspicious as to why they're being so > secretive... > damned if you do, damned if you don't! LOL > > From about 1990 thru 2000, I intentionally use to put out > mis-information about myself, my family, etc., all over the net so > that someone digging up info on me would have lots of trash to go > through to find out the legitimate info on me and my family.  Now that > I'm out of that business, I do not worry as much since I'm not ruining > some people's lives any longer so I've cleaned up most of that > mis-information that I could find. > That was the downside of > working in the legal industry... when your side wins, that means > there's a BIG loser on the other side and you never know who they're > going to blame. > Usually the lawyers or the Judges got the blame since I worked behind > the scenes... but occasionally my name would become an integral part > of the case and then I'd get my share of threats. > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com (Links to any articles > referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically > under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) > > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com > [mailto:AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com] > On > Behalf Of Amber Berglund > Sent: Wednesday, October 14, 2009 10:38 AM > To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: GRR, I hate my electric > company! > > If Lenny knows where my house is I may just have to report > him as a Stalker > ;) LOL. > Show him our fancy airport Lenny ;) > > Amber > > bill 1433 wrote: > >  > > > > Len, > >  > > I was most interested in your comments about the use > of Google Earth.  > > I have not tried it but would like too. > > I'm afraid they don't show much in examples of what > you could or > > should see?  Can you send me, off-list, a > screen-shot so I can judge > > for myself if its worth the effort?  Just pick a > place of interest. > > How about Amber's House? <G> Why not? > >  > > Bill > > > > --- On Tue, 10/13/09, Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@gmail. com > > > <mailto:GoldLenny% 40gmail.com> > wrote: > > > > From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@gmail. com > > > <mailto:GoldLenny% 40gmail.com> > > > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: GRR, I hate my electric > company! > > To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com > <mailto:AquaticLife %40yahoogroups. com> > > Date: Tuesday, October 13, 2009, 11:58 PM > > > > Nope.  I Google Earth'ed you a while back when we > were talking about > > your island. LOL  I also flew over to that > volcano across the bay to > > check that area out too.  I haven't been on > Google Earth the past > > couple of weeks but I hear that new satellite they > launched last week > > is going to give even better imaging to Google Earth > and Google Maps.  > > They might even have the street labels better for your > island so the > > international airport doesn't look like a dirt road > and a helipad like > > it did the last time I flew over your area.... with > Google Earth.  > > Hopefully, with that new satellite, I might finally be > able to check > > out my bikini clad neighbor babe with the 12' > > solid > > vinyl fence. ;-)  Dang... what ever happened to > real wood with knot holes. > > LOL > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com > > <http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com> (Links > to any articles referenced in > > above reply are listed on the right side, > alphabetically under Labels > > and also under Archives by Year, Month) > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com > > <mailto:AquaticLife %40yahoogroups. com> > > [mailto:AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com > > <mailto:AquaticLife %40yahoogroups. com>] On > Behalf Of Amber Berglund > > Sent: Tuesday, October 13, 2009 10:44 PM > > To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com > <mailto:AquaticLife %40yahoogroups. com> > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: GRR, I hate my electric > company! > > > > Wait, how do _you_ know it's bigger than Gilligan's > Island, did you > > get a special invite one day to take a three hour > tour? ;) LOL > > > > Amber > > > > Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > > > > > > > > > John, > > > > > > I think you're kind of new out here so you may > not realize it yet > > > but Amber lives on an island up in Alaska... > bigger than Gilligan's > > > Island but not a BIG city either so her options > aren't the same as > > > for the rest of us. But there certainly could be > a lighting center > > > or the lighting department at a BIG BOX home > repair center that > > > might have a knowledgeable person. I think once > she opens up the top > > > of the light fixture, the problem will probably > present itself with > > > something that shows burn damage. > > > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com > > <http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com> > > > <http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com <http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com>> > > (Links to any articles referenced in > > > above reply are listed on the right side, > alphabetically under > > > Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) > > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > From: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife %40yahoogroups. com> > > > <mailto:AquaticLife %40yahoogroups. com> > > > [mailto:AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com > > <mailto:AquaticLife %40yahoogroups. com> > > > <mailto:AquaticLife %40yahoogroups. com>] On > Behalf Of > > > creatureproductions > > > Sent: Tuesday, October 13, 2009 9:19 PM > > > To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com > > <mailto:AquaticLife %40yahoogroups. com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife %40yahoogroups. com> > > > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: GRR, I hate my > electric company! > > > > > > Hello: > > > Take the light to a store. They'll tell you if > it's a starter, > > > ballast, oe needs to be replaced. Most stores > seem to be honest > > about it. > > > Good Luck!!! > > > John > > > > > > --- In AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com > > <mailto:AquaticLife %40yahoogroups. com> > > > <mailto:AquaticLife %40yahoogroups. com>, > Amber Berglund > > > <arberglund@ ...> wrote: > > > > > > > > Okay, so today the power went out for a few > hours. My problem lies > > > > in the fact that my light fixture no longer > works after today's > > > > power > > > outage. > > > > I emailed aquatic life to see if there's a > fuse or something that > > > > I need to replace. I tried different outlets > to make sure the > > > > outlet wasn't bad somehow and it still does > not turn on, no > > > > lights, no humming, nothing but silence. > Thankfully the tank is > > > > next to the window and I opened the curtains > so the plants can > > > > still get light through the day, but I need > to get this fixed ASAP > > > > and I don't want to have to buy a new light > fixture, does anyone > > > > have any tips/advice > > > for me?? > > > > It is an aquatic life PowerCompact CF light > fixture with 4 x 65 > > > > watt CFL bulbs and LED moon lights, and a > built in timer, very > > > > nice light, I love it but I miss it already, > LOL. > > > > > > > > Thanks, > > > > Amber > > > > ------------ --------- --------- ------ > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when > replying, Thank You. > ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> > ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> > PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is > NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of > the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new > subject (was re: old subject)" <- > <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. > , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. > > If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of > unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by > clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the home page.  > > Or e-mail aquaticlife- digest@yahoogrou ps.com > to receive the digest, which includes up to 25 posts at a > time in a single email > > Or email aquaticlife- nomail@yahoogrou ps.com > for the No E-Mail option where you will still be able to > read messages on the group and post replies. > > Or email aquaticlife- normal@yahoogrou ps.com > to receive individual e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links > > >     mailto:AquaticLife- fullfeatured@ yahoogroups. com > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] ------------------------------------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the home page. Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com to receive the digest, which includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com for the No E-Mail option where you will still be able to read messages on the group and post replies. Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com to receive individual e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 43812	From: Donna Ransome	Date: 10/14/2009
Subject: Re: GRR, I hate my electric company!

It’s always fun to do your own house, LOL! _____ From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Amber Berglund Sent: Wednesday, October 14, 2009 11:38 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: GRR, I hate my electric company! If Lenny knows where my house is I may just have to report him as a Stalker ;) LOL. Show him our fancy airport Lenny ;) Amber bill 1433 wrote: > > > Len, > > I was most interested in your comments about the use of > Google Earth. I have not tried it but would like too. > I'm afraid they don't show much in examples of what you could > or should see? Can you send me, off-list, a screen-shot so I can > judge for > myself if its worth the effort? Just pick a place of interest. > How about Amber's House? <G> Why not? > > Bill > > --- On Tue, 10/13/09, Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@gmail. <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com> com > <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com>> wrote: > > From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@gmail. <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com> com > <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com>> > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: GRR, I hate my electric company! > To: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Date: Tuesday, October 13, 2009, 11:58 PM > > Nope. I Google Earth'ed you a while back when we were talking about your > island. LOL I also flew over to that volcano across the bay to check that > area out too. I haven't been on Google Earth the past couple of weeks > but I > hear that new satellite they launched last week is going to give even > better > imaging to Google Earth and Google Maps. They might even have the street > labels better for your island so the international airport doesn't > look like > a dirt road and a helipad like it did the last time I flew over your > area.... with Google Earth. Hopefully, with that new satellite, I might > finally be able to check out my bikini clad neighbor babe with the 12' > solid > vinyl fence. ;-) Dang... what ever happened to real wood with knot holes. > LOL > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> blogspot.com> > (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right > side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > [mailto:AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On > Behalf Of Amber Berglund > Sent: Tuesday, October 13, 2009 10:44 PM > To: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: GRR, I hate my electric company! > > Wait, how do _you_ know it's bigger than Gilligan's Island, did you get a > special invite one day to take a three hour tour? ;) LOL > > Amber > > Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > > > > > > John, > > > > I think you're kind of new out here so you may not realize it yet but > > Amber lives on an island up in Alaska... bigger than Gilligan's Island > > but not a BIG city either so her options aren't the same as for the > > rest of us. But there certainly could be a lighting center or the > > lighting department at a BIG BOX home repair center that might have a > > knowledgeable person. I think once she opens up the top of the light > > fixture, the problem will probably present itself with something that > > shows burn damage. > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> blogspot.com> > > <http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> blogspot.com>> > (Links to any articles referenced in > > above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels > > and also under Archives by Year, Month) > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > [mailto:AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On Behalf Of > > creatureproductions > > Sent: Tuesday, October 13, 2009 9:19 PM > > To: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: GRR, I hate my electric company! > > > > Hello: > > Take the light to a store. They'll tell you if it's a starter, > > ballast, oe needs to be replaced. Most stores seem to be honest > about it. > > Good Luck!!! > > John > > > > --- In AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>, Amber Berglund > > <arberglund@...> wrote: > > > > > > Okay, so today the power went out for a few hours. My problem lies > > > in the fact that my light fixture no longer works after today's > > > power > > outage. > > > I emailed aquatic life to see if there's a fuse or something that I > > > need to replace. I tried different outlets to make sure the outlet > > > wasn't bad somehow and it still does not turn on, no lights, no > > > humming, nothing but silence. Thankfully the tank is next to the > > > window and I opened the curtains so the plants can still get light > > > through the day, but I need to get this fixed ASAP and I don't want > > > to have to buy a new light fixture, does anyone have any tips/advice > > for me?? > > > It is an aquatic life PowerCompact CF light fixture with 4 x 65 watt > > > CFL bulbs and LED moon lights, and a built in timer, very nice > > > light, I love it but I miss it already, LOL. > > > > > > Thanks, > > > Amber > > ------------------------------------ > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. > ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> > PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT > important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message > MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- > <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. > > If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of unsubscribing, > you can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My > Membership" on the home page. > > Or e-mail aquaticlife- <mailto:aquaticlife-digest%40yahoogroups.com> digest@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:aquaticlife-digest%40yahoogroups.com> to receive the digest, > which includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email > > Or email aquaticlife- <mailto:aquaticlife-nomail%40yahoogroups.com> nomail@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:aquaticlife-nomail%40yahoogroups.com> for the No E-Mail option > where you will still be able to read messages on the group and post > replies. > > Or email aquaticlife- <mailto:aquaticlife-normal%40yahoogroups.com> normal@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:aquaticlife-normal%40yahoogroups.com> to receive individual > e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 43813	From: toddswoman496861@aim.com	Date: 10/14/2009
Subject: Re: snails

Yep. I just wish that they didnt borrow from social security been dealing with algae since i got the tank and it is getting better. was almost gone when i had the pleco but it i now in a larger tank with somone else now. Kate Dale -----Original Message----- From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@...> To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Wed, Oct 14, 2009 5:33 pm Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] snails The best prices on test kits are through Walmart.com. They have either the API (Aquarium Pharmaceuticals, Inc.) or Tetratest-Laborette for around $17.00 or $15.00 respectively, with free shipping to your local WalMart store. For your current needs about hardness levels for snails, the T-L kit would be best since it includes test kits for GH and KH levels but the T-L kit does not have a Nitrate test kit. The API has the nitrate but not the GH or KH kits. They both have kits for ammonia, nitrite and pH. You can always buy a separate API Nitrate test kit at a later time for around $5.00. Of course, since you are having algae issues, the nitrate kit could be useful now since you could have high nitrate levels causing the algae issue so you may want to track down an API nitrate test kit if you get the T-L kit or an API GH/KH combo kit if you get the API kit from Walmart.com. As far as your fixed income... be glad you're getting your retirement/social security. At the current pace of America's governmental growth and debt, the rest of us probably won't. :-( Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of toddswoman496861@... Sent: Wednesday, October 14, 2009 11:45 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] snails not sure of base line or water parameters as I havent had a chance to get ahold of a friend who has a test kit. Will be able toget one this next payday. I would say i had the snails maybe a week before I noticed 2 of them were gone and ate up. I believe the algae eater fish is either a siamese algae eater or chinese alagae eater. The store just listed them as algae eater fish. I use a declore product that removes cholrine, chloromide(SP?) and heavy metals. I know it is well water we have. and i do i would say 50% water changes (30 gallon Tank) every week, Clean the filters out by rinsing them in the water that is in the tank, and wash with plain water once a month the plastic parts of the filter to help keepthe pond snails from getting out of hand. I hate being on a fixed income. Kate Dale -----Original Message----- From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@...> To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Tue, Oct 13, 2009 8:37 pm Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] snails What are your baseline tap water parameters and tank's parameters for pH, GH and KH? And ammonia, nitrite, nitrate while you're at it. While cuttlebone is a good thing to use if one has soft, acidic water, if you did not use enough to raise your hardness level, then it may not have been enough. Only testing before, during and after would give us the information needed. What kind of algae did you have? While algae eating fish will eat some kinds of algae and some snails will eat some kinds of algae, neither will eat all kings of algae. How long did you have the 3 snails and how long before two died? Were you using any other chemicals or additives in your tank besides a basic dechlor product? What kind of algae eating fish did you get? There are literally dozens of different commonly available species that fall into that category. As far as what ate the dead snails... the answer it probably every living thing in your tank... from the fish to the other snails to the micro-organisms. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of toddswoman496861@... Sent: Tuesday, October 13, 2009 6:56 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] snails I noticed I was having an algae problem that was getting out of hand so i went and got 3 mystery snails. They were doing good for a while then 2 of them looked like they were in the dormant or sleeping stage. The other day i was looking at the tank and i noticed the 2 that i thought were sleeping that all was left of them was an empty shell. I do have a piece of cuttle bone in the filter to make sure that there is enough calcium. I have guppies and went and gt an algae eating fish. I do have pond snails(not sure what else to call them) they are small. Could the pond snails have eaten the 2 mystery snails? The third one is doing great. Kate Dale ------------------------------------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the home page. Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com to receive the digest, which includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com for the No E-Mail option where you will still be able to read messages on the group and post replies. Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com to receive individual e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 43814	From: greychildren	Date: 10/14/2009
Subject: soil good old soil

question guyz I'm redoing my 55g the correct way for a planted aquarium. My question is whats the best and cheapest soil to use like Hyponex topsoil? also were can i find crushed egg shells with eating two or more dozen eggs? can i use crush coral rock instead of egg shells? sorry Friends have allot of questions. laterz jake

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 43815	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 10/14/2009
Subject: Re: soil good old soil

Which site/book are you using for a DIY substrate formula? This site has a LOT of good articles on planted tanks, including a page that talks about the various substrates. http://www.csd.net/~cgadd/aqua/articles.htm I have other information and links on my blog's "Planted Tank..." article, which is written for beginners in the Planted Tank quest. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of greychildren Sent: Wednesday, October 14, 2009 6:37 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] soil good old soil question guyz I'm redoing my 55g the correct way for a planted aquarium. My question is whats the best and cheapest soil to use like Hyponex topsoil? also were can i find crushed egg shells with eating two or more dozen eggs? can i use crush coral rock instead of egg shells? sorry Friends have allot of questions. laterz jake

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 43816	From: biG poppa	Date: 10/14/2009
Subject: Re: GRR, I hate my electric company!

i been on the field for almost 15 years not seen the RISH yet..Doing casino Surveillance. No money  here ether..lol --- On Wed, 10/14/09, Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@...> wrote: From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@...> Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: GRR, I hate my electric company! To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Date: Wednesday, October 14, 2009, 7:01 PM   Well, I use to be until 2002-2003. After 16 years and not being RICH or seeing RICH on the horizon (I didn't have a red Ferrari, like Magnum, or anything... heck, not even his mustache. LOL), I decided to change business fields and career paths. I'm now a contractor with my own small repair/remodeling company. I actually started the ground work for this back in 2003 but had it on the back burner while I was still doing contracting work in the legal/medical industry... but after Katrina, I move this to the front burner and haven't looked back. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com [mailto:AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com] On Behalf Of biG poppa Sent: Wednesday, October 14, 2009 4:57 PM To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: GRR, I hate my electric company! interesting Lenny so your in the same line of work as me..maybe we should chat some time. --- On Wed, 10/14/09, bill 1433 <warrenprint@ yahoo.com> wrote: From: bill 1433 <warrenprint@ yahoo.com> Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: GRR, I hate my electric company! To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com Date: Wednesday, October 14, 2009, 5:06 PM   Lenny! I'm quite sure you would be interested to know that there is currently a government agency which will do this very thing for you! W.P.P.= Witness Protection Program Bill----ps goggle maps! I found what I wanted to know! --- On Wed, 10/14/09, Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@gmail. com> wrote: > From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@gmail. com> > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: GRR, I hate my electric company! > To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com > Date: Wednesday, October 14, 2009, 4:40 PM Amber, > > My previous business for 16 years, prior to Katrina, was a private > investigator biz, so yes, I was a paid peeping-tom for many years. ;-)  > So, as far as finding your home, that's easy... if I wanted to do it. > LOL  Most people, including myself, post enough stuff online that once > all that is combined, it's not hard to fill in a few blanks after > checking a few government offices for other public info. > > That's what is getting so many people in trouble with colleges and > jobs nowadays since there's so much out there.... and if I can't find > very much on someone, then I get suspicious as to why they're being so > secretive... > damned if you do, damned if you don't! LOL > > From about 1990 thru 2000, I intentionally use to put out > mis-information about myself, my family, etc., all over the net so > that someone digging up info on me would have lots of trash to go > through to find out the legitimate info on me and my family.  Now that > I'm out of that business, I do not worry as much since I'm not ruining > some people's lives any longer so I've cleaned up most of that > mis-information that I could find. > That was the downside of > working in the legal industry... when your side wins, that means > there's a BIG loser on the other side and you never know who they're > going to blame. > Usually the lawyers or the Judges got the blame since I worked behind > the scenes... but occasionally my name would become an integral part > of the case and then I'd get my share of threats. > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com (Links to any articles > referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically > under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) > > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com > [mailto:AquaticLife @ yahoogroups. com] > On > Behalf Of Amber Berglund > Sent: Wednesday, October 14, 2009 10:38 AM > To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: GRR, I hate my electric > company! > > If Lenny knows where my house is I may just have to report > him as a Stalker > ;) LOL. > Show him our fancy airport Lenny ;) > > Amber > > bill 1433 wrote: > >  > > > > Len, > >  > > I was most interested in your comments about the use > of Google Earth.  > > I have not tried it but would like too. > > I'm afraid they don't show much in examples of what > you could or > > should see?  Can you send me, off-list, a > screen-shot so I can judge > > for myself if its worth the effort?  Just pick a > place of interest. > > How about Amber's House? <G> Why not? > >  > > Bill > > > > --- On Tue, 10/13/09, Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@gmail. com > > > <mailto:GoldLenny% 40gmail.com> > wrote: > > > > From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@gmail. com > > > <mailto:GoldLenny% 40gmail.com> > > > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: GRR, I hate my electric > company! > > To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com > <mailto:AquaticLife %40yahoogroups. com> > > Date: Tuesday, October 13, 2009, 11:58 PM > > > > Nope.  I Google Earth'ed you a while back when we > were talking about > > your island. LOL  I also flew over to that > volcano across the bay to > > check that area out too.  I haven't been on > Google Earth the past > > couple of weeks but I hear that new satellite they > launched last week > > is going to give even better imaging to Google Earth > and Google Maps.  > > They might even have the street labels better for your > island so the > > international airport doesn't look like a dirt road > and a helipad like > > it did the last time I flew over your area.... with > Google Earth.  > > Hopefully, with that new satellite, I might finally be > able to check > > out my bikini clad neighbor babe with the 12' > > solid > > vinyl fence. ;-)  Dang... what ever happened to > real wood with knot holes. > > LOL > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com > > <http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com> (Links > to any articles referenced in > > above reply are listed on the right side, > alphabetically under Labels > > and also under Archives by Year, Month) > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com > > <mailto:AquaticLife %40yahoogroups. com> > > [mailto:AquaticLife @ yahoogroups. com > > <mailto:AquaticLife %40yahoogroups. com>] On > Behalf Of Amber Berglund > > Sent: Tuesday, October 13, 2009 10:44 PM > > To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com > <mailto:AquaticLife %40yahoogroups. com> > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: GRR, I hate my electric > company! > > > > Wait, how do _you_ know it's bigger than Gilligan's > Island, did you > > get a special invite one day to take a three hour > tour? ;) LOL > > > > Amber > > > > Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > > > > > > > > > John, > > > > > > I think you're kind of new out here so you may > not realize it yet > > > but Amber lives on an island up in Alaska... > bigger than Gilligan's > > > Island but not a BIG city either so her options > aren't the same as > > > for the rest of us. But there certainly could be > a lighting center > > > or the lighting department at a BIG BOX home > repair center that > > > might have a knowledgeable person. I think once > she opens up the top > > > of the light fixture, the problem will probably > present itself with > > > something that shows burn damage. > > > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com > > <http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com> > > > <http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com <http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com>> > > (Links to any articles referenced in > > > above reply are listed on the right side, > alphabetically under > > > Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) > > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > From: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife %40yahoogroups. com> > > > <mailto:AquaticLife %40yahoogroups. com> > > > [mailto:AquaticLife @ yahoogroups. com > > <mailto:AquaticLife %40yahoogroups. com> > > > <mailto:AquaticLife %40yahoogroups. com>] On > Behalf Of > > > creatureproductions > > > Sent: Tuesday, October 13, 2009 9:19 PM > > > To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com > > <mailto:AquaticLife %40yahoogroups. com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife %40yahoogroups. com> > > > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: GRR, I hate my > electric company! > > > > > > Hello: > > > Take the light to a store. They'll tell you if > it's a starter, > > > ballast, oe needs to be replaced. Most stores > seem to be honest > > about it. > > > Good Luck!!! > > > John > > > > > > --- In AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com > > <mailto:AquaticLife %40yahoogroups. com> > > > <mailto:AquaticLife %40yahoogroups. com>, > Amber Berglund > > > <arberglund@ ...> wrote: > > > > > > > > Okay, so today the power went out for a few > hours. My problem lies > > > > in the fact that my light fixture no longer > works after today's > > > > power > > > outage. > > > > I emailed aquatic life to see if there's a > fuse or something that > > > > I need to replace. I tried different outlets > to make sure the > > > > outlet wasn't bad somehow and it still does > not turn on, no > > > > lights, no humming, nothing but silence. > Thankfully the tank is > > > > next to the window and I opened the curtains > so the plants can > > > > still get light through the day, but I need > to get this fixed ASAP > > > > and I don't want to have to buy a new light > fixture, does anyone > > > > have any tips/advice > > > for me?? > > > > It is an aquatic life PowerCompact CF light > fixture with 4 x 65 > > > > watt CFL bulbs and LED moon lights, and a > built in timer, very > > > > nice light, I love it but I miss it already, > LOL. > > > > > > > > Thanks, > > > > Amber > > > > ------------ --------- --------- ------ > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when > replying, Thank You. > ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> > ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> > PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is > NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of > the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new > subject (was re: old subject)" <- > <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. > , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. > > If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of > unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by > clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the home page.  > > Or e-mail aquaticlife- digest@yahoogrou ps.com > to receive the digest, which includes up to 25 posts at a > time in a single email > > Or email aquaticlife- nomail@yahoogrou ps.com > for the No E-Mail option where you will still be able to > read messages on the group and post replies. > > Or email aquaticlife- normal@yahoogrou ps.com > to receive individual e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links > > >     mailto:AquaticLife- fullfeatured@ yahoogroups. com > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] ------------ --------- --------- ------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the home page. Or e-mail aquaticlife- digest@yahoogrou ps.com to receive the digest, which includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email Or email aquaticlife- nomail@yahoogrou ps.com for the No E-Mail option where you will still be able to read messages on the group and post replies. Or email aquaticlife- normal@yahoogrou ps.com to receive individual e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 43817	From: Donna Ransome	Date: 10/14/2009
Subject: That'll Teach Him!

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/33300456/ns/us_news-weird_news/?gt1=43001 [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 43818	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 10/14/2009
Subject: Re: That'll Teach Him!

And she would have been a much bigger and easier target too! ;-) And just to keep things Fair & Balanced... among the whacked out relationships! Cops: Woman eats ex's goldfish after spat http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/33088053/ns/us_news-weird_news/ Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Donna Ransome Sent: Wednesday, October 14, 2009 9:16 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] That'll Teach Him! http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/33300456/ns/us_news-weird_news/?gt1=43001 [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] ------------------------------------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. 74/`7.88.><((((:>.74/`7.88.74/`7.8><((((:> 8.74/`7.8. , .74/`7..><((((:> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <:((((><.74/`7.88.74/`7.8<:((((><8.74/`7.8. , .74/`7..<:((((><74/`7.88. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the home page. Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com to receive the digest, which includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com for the No E-Mail option where you will still be able to read messages on the group and post replies. Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com to receive individual e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 43819	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 10/14/2009
Subject: Re: soil good old soil

I use any good organic soil that does not have perlite/vermiculite, or peat moss added, as they have their own problems when you use them ;) Peat moss will change the pH of your tank, perlite floats and you have to scoop it out, and vermiculite I suppose isn't a big deal as it soaks up moisture. I'll link a good site for info on Walstad tank setups. http://thegab.org/Plants/setting-up-a-walstad-natural-planted-tank.html Hope that helps, Amber greychildren wrote: > > > question guyz I'm redoing my 55g the correct way for a planted > aquarium. My question is whats the best and cheapest soil to use like > Hyponex topsoil? also were can i find crushed egg shells with eating > two or more dozen eggs? can i use crush coral rock instead of egg > shells? sorry Friends have allot of questions. > > laterz > jake > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 43820	From: toddswoman496861@aim.com	Date: 10/15/2009
Subject: Re: snails

Yep. I just wish that they didnt borrow from social security been dealing with algae since i got the tank and it is getting better. was almost gone when i had the pleco but it i now in a larger tank with somone else now. Kate Dale -----Original Message----- From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@...> To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Wed, Oct 14, 2009 5:33 pm Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] snails The best prices on test kits are through Walmart.com. They have either the API (Aquarium Pharmaceuticals, Inc.) or Tetratest-Laborette for around $17.00 or $15.00 respectively, with free shipping to your local WalMart store. For your current needs about hardness levels for snails, the T-L kit would be best since it includes test kits for GH and KH levels but the T-L kit does not have a Nitrate test kit. The API has the nitrate but not the GH or KH kits. They both have kits for ammonia, nitrite and pH. You can always buy a separate API Nitrate test kit at a later time for around $5.00. Of course, since you are having algae issues, the nitrate kit could be useful now since you could have high nitrate levels causing the algae issue so you may want to track down an API nitrate test kit if you get the T-L kit or an API GH/KH combo kit if you get the API kit from Walmart.com. As far as your fixed income... be glad you're getting your retirement/social security. At the current pace of America's governmental growth and debt, the rest of us probably won't. :-( Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of toddswoman496861@... Sent: Wednesday, October 14, 2009 11:45 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] snails not sure of base line or water parameters as I havent had a chance to get ahold of a friend who has a test kit. Will be able toget one this next payday. I would say i had the snails maybe a week before I noticed 2 of them were gone and ate up. I believe the algae eater fish is either a siamese algae eater or chinese alagae eater. The store just listed them as algae eater fish. I use a declore product that removes cholrine, chloromide(SP?) and heavy metals. I know it is well water we have. and i do i would say 50% water changes (30 gallon Tank) every week, Clean the filters out by rinsing them in the water that is in the tank, and wash with plain water once a month the plastic parts of the filter to help keepthe pond snails from getting out of hand. I hate being on a fixed income. Kate Dale -----Original Message----- From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@...> To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Tue, Oct 13, 2009 8:37 pm Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] snails What are your baseline tap water parameters and tank's parameters for pH, GH and KH? And ammonia, nitrite, nitrate while you're at it. While cuttlebone is a good thing to use if one has soft, acidic water, if you did not use enough to raise your hardness level, then it may not have been enough. Only testing before, during and after would give us the information needed. What kind of algae did you have? While algae eating fish will eat some kinds of algae and some snails will eat some kinds of algae, neither will eat all kings of algae. How long did you have the 3 snails and how long before two died? Were you using any other chemicals or additives in your tank besides a basic dechlor product? What kind of algae eating fish did you get? There are literally dozens of different commonly available species that fall into that category. As far as what ate the dead snails... the answer it probably every living thing in your tank... from the fish to the other snails to the micro-organisms. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of toddswoman496861@... Sent: Tuesday, October 13, 2009 6:56 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] snails I noticed I was having an algae problem that was getting out of hand so i went and got 3 mystery snails. They were doing good for a while then 2 of them looked like they were in the dormant or sleeping stage. The other day i was looking at the tank and i noticed the 2 that i thought were sleeping that all was left of them was an empty shell. I do have a piece of cuttle bone in the filter to make sure that there is enough calcium. I have guppies and went and gt an algae eating fish. I do have pond snails(not sure what else to call them) they are small. Could the pond snails have eaten the 2 mystery snails? The third one is doing great. Kate Dale ------------------------------------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the home page. Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com to receive the digest, which includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com for the No E-Mail option where you will still be able to read messages on the group and post replies. Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com to receive individual e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 43821	From: gailsugarpants	Date: 10/15/2009
Subject: Re: Green water continued

Lainey- In my many experiences with Algae Blooms, turning off my lights has never helped. I have even had people tell me that I should cover the tank with a blanket, close the blinds, etc. None of this would even help. The only thing that helped my Algae blooms was doing water changes every few days, and vaccuming the gravel really well. Can you tell us how often you do tank maintenance? I know that some of the mistakes I made on my tank that caused my Algae Blooms were; I was slacking on weekly maintenance on an overcrowded tank, I would rinse my filter cartridge and my bio-wheel in tap water. Please tell us how often you change your water and vaccum, and service your filtration. Those key things may also help us understand where the problem lies. thanks! gail --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, Lainey Alexander <lainealex@...> wrote: > > Thanks for this feedback, John, it sounds very reasonable. Tank is > not by a window, but probably I need to be patient. Since my plants > are very newly planted and not even rooted in some cases, I worry > about killing the light at this stage... > > I am not overfeeding, in fact I may be underfeeding as my nitrates > are zero. But I think I am doing it correctly?: feed twice a day food > enough that it is all eaten in about five minutes. > > I took the driftwood out of the tank so I don't have to factor it > into the current water problem, will retry this later. > > Lainey > http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com > > On Oct 13, 2009, at 10:34 AM, creatureproductions wrote: > > > > > Hello: > > All you have to really do is cut back on the amount of light the > > tank receives until the algae bloom in the water comes under > > control. If the tank is by a window then you're getting double > > light from both the window and tank lights. Cut the tank lights to > > 7-8 hours a day and just monitor the plants for signs of stress. > > Some plants can easily tolerate six hours a day. As the water > > clears you can play with your day/night cycle until you get a good > > mix. You can adjust the lights to be on at best times of the day > > for tank viewing. > > Also, overfeeding the fish along with too much light can also lead > > to an algae bloom. Cut back a little on food and just monitor the > > tank. > > This will take a few weeks so patience is needed. Just be sure to > > keep up on the 25% water changes every week. The tannins from the > > driftwood are a way of life and after a time will balance out but > > that takes a little while. With a little exzperimenting of day/ > > night cycles you'll find the right balance. > > Good Luck and...Have a Great Day!!! > > John > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, Lainey Alexander > > <lainealex@> wrote: > > > > > > Hi again - > > > > > > Today I can clearly see that my tank is having an algae bloom and is > > > very green, getting greener all the time. I still have zero readings > > > for phosphate, nitrate, nitrite and ammonia. Everything I am reading > > > says I have to turn off the lights for several days, but I am not > > > sure my newly planted plants will endure this. I am trying to search > > > planted tank forum but the search isn't working. > > > > > > Does anyone have direct experience of green water in a new tank? > > Do I > > > need to turn off the lights? Nothing I read seems to indicate that > > > this problem will go away on its own. > > > > > > I don't have the type of cloudiness that seems to be bacterial, mine > > > is really green - looks just awful! > > > > > > Thanks for everything... > > > > > > Lainey > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 43822	From: Lainey Alexander	Date: 10/15/2009
Subject: Re: Green water continued

All of my fish are very young and none of them is larger than about two inches, but most are only 1 to 1.5 inches. As soon as the SAEs get to be four inches I will have to get a bigger tank or else trade them in. Same for the rams if they get too much bigger. I am trying to be very careful not to overcrowd, so while I have largish numbers, I have to say sometimes I only see about seven fish at a time because everyone is so small and they remain hidden much of the time. With my nitrate levels at zero I'm not sure I can be too high on my bioload? Lainey http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com On Oct 14, 2009, at 2:56 PM, gailsugarpants wrote: > Lainey > Wow, you have 34 fish for a 37 gallon tank. That is a high ratio. > How big are the SAEs? I see that they get up to 6" and that is > pretty big. They could possibly be the heaviest part of your bioload. > > Can you tell us how often you do maintenance on your tank? Do you > do weekly water changes and vaccum your gravel? Also, how you > maintain your filtration system? That info can be helpful too. > > Thanks, > Gail > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, Lainey Alexander > <lainealex@...> wrote: > > > > Hi Gail - > > > > I just posted my tank measurements, it's 37g and for fish it's: > > > > 7 RN tetras > > 13 celestial pearl danios (one inch) > > 5 cory catfish > > 2 blue rams > > 6 siamese algae eaters > > 1 dwarf puffer (very gentle) > > > > It doesn't look too crowded to me, and I am not planning any > > additions, but I know the SAEs may outgrow the tank... > > > > Lainey > > http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 43823	From: Lainey Alexander	Date: 10/15/2009
Subject: Re: Green water continued

Hi Gail - I have been vacuuming gravel and doing a 10 to 15% WC each Saturday. Cleaning the filter once per month. Thanks, Lainey http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com On Oct 15, 2009, at 10:40 AM, gailsugarpants wrote: > Lainey- > In my many experiences with Algae Blooms, turning off my lights has > never helped. I have even had people tell me that I should cover > the tank with a blanket, close the blinds, etc. None of this would > even help. The only thing that helped my Algae blooms was doing > water changes every few days, and vaccuming the gravel really well. > > Can you tell us how often you do tank maintenance? I know that some > of the mistakes I made on my tank that caused my Algae Blooms were; > I was slacking on weekly maintenance on an overcrowded tank, I > would rinse my filter cartridge and my bio-wheel in tap water. > Please tell us how often you change your water and vaccum, and > service your filtration. Those key things may also help us > understand where the problem lies. > > thanks! > > gail > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, Lainey Alexander > <lainealex@...> wrote: > > > > Thanks for this feedback, John, it sounds very reasonable. Tank is > > not by a window, but probably I need to be patient. Since my plants > > are very newly planted and not even rooted in some cases, I worry > > about killing the light at this stage... > > > > I am not overfeeding, in fact I may be underfeeding as my nitrates > > are zero. But I think I am doing it correctly?: feed twice a day > food > > enough that it is all eaten in about five minutes. > > > > I took the driftwood out of the tank so I don't have to factor it > > into the current water problem, will retry this later. > > > > Lainey > > http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com > > > > On Oct 13, 2009, at 10:34 AM, creatureproductions wrote: > > > > > > > > Hello: > > > All you have to really do is cut back on the amount of light the > > > tank receives until the algae bloom in the water comes under > > > control. If the tank is by a window then you're getting double > > > light from both the window and tank lights. Cut the tank lights to > > > 7-8 hours a day and just monitor the plants for signs of stress. > > > Some plants can easily tolerate six hours a day. As the water > > > clears you can play with your day/night cycle until you get a good > > > mix. You can adjust the lights to be on at best times of the day > > > for tank viewing. > > > Also, overfeeding the fish along with too much light can also lead > > > to an algae bloom. Cut back a little on food and just monitor the > > > tank. > > > This will take a few weeks so patience is needed. Just be sure to > > > keep up on the 25% water changes every week. The tannins from the > > > driftwood are a way of life and after a time will balance out but > > > that takes a little while. With a little exzperimenting of day/ > > > night cycles you'll find the right balance. > > > Good Luck and...Have a Great Day!!! > > > John > > > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, Lainey Alexander > > > <lainealex@> wrote: > > > > > > > > Hi again - > > > > > > > > Today I can clearly see that my tank is having an algae bloom > and is > > > > very green, getting greener all the time. I still have zero > readings > > > > for phosphate, nitrate, nitrite and ammonia. Everything I am > reading > > > > says I have to turn off the lights for several days, but I am > not > > > > sure my newly planted plants will endure this. I am trying to > search > > > > planted tank forum but the search isn't working. > > > > > > > > Does anyone have direct experience of green water in a new tank? > > > Do I > > > > need to turn off the lights? Nothing I read seems to indicate > that > > > > this problem will go away on its own. > > > > > > > > I don't have the type of cloudiness that seems to be > bacterial, mine > > > > is really green - looks just awful! > > > > > > > > Thanks for everything... > > > > > > > > Lainey > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 43824	From: Lainey Alexander	Date: 10/15/2009
Subject: Re: Green water continued

I have been using my lights about ten to twelve hours a day. Turning them off all day hasn't helped the algae much if any. Lainey http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com On Oct 14, 2009, at 5:38 PM, Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > What do you mean by "killing the light"? You aren't running the > light 24/7, > are you? If you are, then that is likely the cause of your algae > issues. > If you aren't, tell us your current lighting schedule. > > I run my lights for around 8-9 hours a day and try to mimic a > natural day. > Around 7 A.M., I turn on a normal room light (sunrise), then around > 9 A.M., > my main tank lights come on till around 5-6 P.M. (day time), when I > turn > them off with only a room light left on and then around 7-8 P.M. > (sunset), > the room light goes off so the room is mostly dark except for > either or both > of my computer/TV monitors (moonlight ;-)) > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the > right > side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, > Month) > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On > Behalf Of Lainey Alexander > Sent: Wednesday, October 14, 2009 10:31 AM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: Green water continued > > Thanks for this feedback, John, it sounds very reasonable. Tank is > not by a > window, but probably I need to be patient. Since my plants are very > newly > planted and not even rooted in some cases, I worry about killing > the light > at this stage... > > I am not overfeeding, in fact I may be underfeeding as my nitrates > are zero. > But I think I am doing it correctly?: feed twice a day food enough > that it > is all eaten in about five minutes. > > I took the driftwood out of the tank so I don't have to factor it > into the > current water problem, will retry this later. > > Lainey > http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com > > On Oct 13, 2009, at 10:34 AM, creatureproductions wrote: > > > > > Hello: > > All you have to really do is cut back on the amount of light the > tank > > receives until the algae bloom in the water comes under control. If > > the tank is by a window then you're getting double light from > both the > > window and tank lights. Cut the tank lights to > > 7-8 hours a day and just monitor the plants for signs of stress. > > Some plants can easily tolerate six hours a day. As the water clears > > you can play with your day/night cycle until you get a good mix. You > > can adjust the lights to be on at best times of the day for tank > > viewing. > > Also, overfeeding the fish along with too much light can also > lead to > > an algae bloom. Cut back a little on food and just monitor the tank. > > This will take a few weeks so patience is needed. Just be sure to > keep > > up on the 25% water changes every week. The tannins from the > driftwood > > are a way of life and after a time will balance out but that takes a > > little while. With a little exzperimenting of day/ night cycles > you'll > > find the right balance. > > Good Luck and...Have a Great Day!!! > > John > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, Lainey Alexander <lainealex@...> > > wrote: > > > > > > Hi again - > > > > > > Today I can clearly see that my tank is having an algae bloom > and is > > > very green, getting greener all the time. I still have zero > readings > > > for phosphate, nitrate, nitrite and ammonia. Everything I am > reading > > > says I have to turn off the lights for several days, but I am not > > > sure my newly planted plants will endure this. I am trying to > search > > > planted tank forum but the search isn't working. > > > > > > Does anyone have direct experience of green water in a new tank? > > Do I > > > need to turn off the lights? Nothing I read seems to indicate that > > > this problem will go away on its own. > > > > > > I don't have the type of cloudiness that seems to be bacterial, > mine > > > is really green - looks just awful! > > > > > > Thanks for everything... > > > > > > Lainey > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > ------------------------------------ > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, > Thank You. > ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..>< > ((((º> > PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT > important to > the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY > the SUBJECT > LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- > <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><· > ´¯`·.¸¸. > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. > > If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of > unsubscribing, you > can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My Membership" > on the > home page. > > Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com to receive the digest, > which > includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email > > Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com for the No E-Mail > option where > you will still be able to read messages on the group and post replies. > > Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com to receive individual > e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 43825	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 10/15/2009
Subject: Re: Green water continued

You should be cleaning your filter cartridge (in removed tank water swish it around) each week when you do your gravel vac, your poor fishies are swimming around in their own poo :( (note that's poo, not pool, LOL). On an undercrowded tank or heavily planted tank (with well established roots) you can get away with waiting longer between filter cleanings as the plants will use up the nutrients that the fish leave behind (poo, food, etc), but since your tank sounds fairly newish with the plants they might not be established well enough to be growing fast and using a lot of nutrients. With a green water issue you're going to need to clean your filter at least once a week, if not more, as the filter will collect the algae and eventually can clog up if you don't clean it often enough. Amber Lainey Alexander wrote: > > > Hi Gail - > > I have been vacuuming gravel and doing a 10 to 15% WC each Saturday. > Cleaning the filter once per month. > > Thanks, > > Lainey > http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com <http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com> > > On Oct 15, 2009, at 10:40 AM, gailsugarpants wrote: > > > Lainey- > > In my many experiences with Algae Blooms, turning off my lights has > > never helped. I have even had people tell me that I should cover > > the tank with a blanket, close the blinds, etc. None of this would > > even help. The only thing that helped my Algae blooms was doing > > water changes every few days, and vaccuming the gravel really well. > > > > Can you tell us how often you do tank maintenance? I know that some > > of the mistakes I made on my tank that caused my Algae Blooms were; > > I was slacking on weekly maintenance on an overcrowded tank, I > > would rinse my filter cartridge and my bio-wheel in tap water. > > Please tell us how often you change your water and vaccum, and > > service your filtration. Those key things may also help us > > understand where the problem lies. > > > > thanks! > > > > gail > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>, Lainey Alexander > > <lainealex@...> wrote: > > > > > > Thanks for this feedback, John, it sounds very reasonable. Tank is > > > not by a window, but probably I need to be patient. Since my plants > > > are very newly planted and not even rooted in some cases, I worry > > > about killing the light at this stage... > > > > > > I am not overfeeding, in fact I may be underfeeding as my nitrates > > > are zero. But I think I am doing it correctly?: feed twice a day > > food > > > enough that it is all eaten in about five minutes. > > > > > > I took the driftwood out of the tank so I don't have to factor it > > > into the current water problem, will retry this later. > > > > > > Lainey > > > http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com > <http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com> > > > > > > On Oct 13, 2009, at 10:34 AM, creatureproductions wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > Hello: > > > > All you have to really do is cut back on the amount of light the > > > > tank receives until the algae bloom in the water comes under > > > > control. If the tank is by a window then you're getting double > > > > light from both the window and tank lights. Cut the tank lights to > > > > 7-8 hours a day and just monitor the plants for signs of stress. > > > > Some plants can easily tolerate six hours a day. As the water > > > > clears you can play with your day/night cycle until you get a good > > > > mix. You can adjust the lights to be on at best times of the day > > > > for tank viewing. > > > > Also, overfeeding the fish along with too much light can also lead > > > > to an algae bloom. Cut back a little on food and just monitor the > > > > tank. > > > > This will take a few weeks so patience is needed. Just be sure to > > > > keep up on the 25% water changes every week. The tannins from the > > > > driftwood are a way of life and after a time will balance out but > > > > that takes a little while. With a little exzperimenting of day/ > > > > night cycles you'll find the right balance. > > > > Good Luck and...Have a Great Day!!! > > > > John > > > > > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>, Lainey Alexander > > > > <lainealex@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > Hi again - > > > > > > > > > > Today I can clearly see that my tank is having an algae bloom > > and is > > > > > very green, getting greener all the time. I still have zero > > readings > > > > > for phosphate, nitrate, nitrite and ammonia. Everything I am > > reading > > > > > says I have to turn off the lights for several days, but I am > > not > > > > > sure my newly planted plants will endure this. I am trying to > > search > > > > > planted tank forum but the search isn't working. > > > > > > > > > > Does anyone have direct experience of green water in a new tank? > > > > Do I > > > > > need to turn off the lights? Nothing I read seems to indicate > > that > > > > > this problem will go away on its own. > > > > > > > > > > I don't have the type of cloudiness that seems to be > > bacterial, mine > > > > > is really green - looks just awful! > > > > > > > > > > Thanks for everything... > > > > > > > > > > Lainey > > > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 43826	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 10/15/2009
Subject: Re: Green water continued

Also it doesn't matter how young the fish are, they should still be calculated by their full growth at adult size. Your tank is actually very overcrowded mostly from your 6 algae eaters that will grow to be over several inches long. You can get away with over stocking a tank but you have to clean it a lot more often than you have been otherwise the water gets very gross very fast, and the suspended algae is what is saving you right now, otherwise you could have some excess amonia or nitrate or something similar that kills all your fish. So don't dislike the green water too much, it's keeping your fish alive until you can sort out what's going on in your tank. Amber Lainey Alexander wrote: > > > All of my fish are very young and none of them is larger than about > two inches, but most are only 1 to 1.5 inches. As soon as the SAEs > get to be four inches I will have to get a bigger tank or else trade > them in. Same for the rams if they get too much bigger. I am trying > to be very careful not to overcrowd, so while I have largish numbers, > I have to say sometimes I only see about seven fish at a time because > everyone is so small and they remain hidden much of the time. With my > nitrate levels at zero I'm not sure I can be too high on my bioload? > > Lainey > http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com <http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com> > > On Oct 14, 2009, at 2:56 PM, gailsugarpants wrote: > > > Lainey > > Wow, you have 34 fish for a 37 gallon tank. That is a high ratio. > > How big are the SAEs? I see that they get up to 6" and that is > > pretty big. They could possibly be the heaviest part of your bioload. > > > > Can you tell us how often you do maintenance on your tank? Do you > > do weekly water changes and vaccum your gravel? Also, how you > > maintain your filtration system? That info can be helpful too. > > > > Thanks, > > Gail > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>, Lainey Alexander > > <lainealex@...> wrote: > > > > > > Hi Gail - > > > > > > I just posted my tank measurements, it's 37g and for fish it's: > > > > > > 7 RN tetras > > > 13 celestial pearl danios (one inch) > > > 5 cory catfish > > > 2 blue rams > > > 6 siamese algae eaters > > > 1 dwarf puffer (very gentle) > > > > > > It doesn't look too crowded to me, and I am not planning any > > > additions, but I know the SAEs may outgrow the tank... > > > > > > Lainey > > > http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com > <http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com> > > > > > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 43827	From: bill 1433	Date: 10/15/2009
Subject: Re: Green water continued

Congrat's Gail!   Very well said!   Bill --- On Thu, 10/15/09, gailsugarpants <gail.johnson2@...> wrote: From: gailsugarpants <gail.johnson2@...> Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Green water continued To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Date: Thursday, October 15, 2009, 10:40 AM Lainey- In my many experiences with Algae Blooms, turning off my lights has never helped. I have even had people tell me that I should cover the tank with a blanket, close the blinds, etc. None of this would even help. The only thing that helped my Algae blooms was doing water changes every few days, and vaccuming the gravel really well. Can you tell us how often you do tank maintenance? I know that some of the mistakes I made on my tank that caused my Algae Blooms were; I was slacking on weekly maintenance on an overcrowded tank, I would rinse my filter cartridge and my bio-wheel in tap water. Please tell us how often you change your water and vaccum, and service your filtration. Those key things may also help us understand where the problem lies. thanks! gail --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, Lainey Alexander <lainealex@...> wrote: > > Thanks for this feedback, John, it sounds very reasonable. Tank is  > not by a window, but probably I need to be patient. Since my plants  > are very newly planted and not even rooted in some cases, I worry  > about killing the light at this stage... > > I am not overfeeding, in fact I may be underfeeding as my nitrates  > are zero. But I think I am doing it correctly?: feed twice a day food  > enough that it is all eaten in about five minutes. > > I took the driftwood out of the tank so I don't have to factor it  > into the current water problem, will retry this later. > > Lainey > http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com > > On Oct 13, 2009, at 10:34 AM, creatureproductions wrote: > > > > > Hello: > > All you have to really do is cut back on the amount of light the  > > tank receives until the algae bloom in the water comes under  > > control. If the tank is by a window then you're getting double  > > light from both the window and tank lights. Cut the tank lights to  > > 7-8 hours a day and just monitor the plants for signs of stress.  > > Some plants can easily tolerate six hours a day. As the water  > > clears you can play with your day/night cycle until you get a good  > > mix. You can adjust the lights to be on at best times of the day  > > for tank viewing. > > Also, overfeeding the fish along with too much light can also lead  > > to an algae bloom. Cut back a little on food and just monitor the  > > tank. > > This will take a few weeks so patience is needed. Just be sure to  > > keep up on the 25% water changes every week. The tannins from the  > > driftwood are a way of life and after a time will balance out but  > > that takes a little while. With a little exzperimenting of day/ > > night cycles you'll find the right balance. > > Good Luck and...Have a Great Day!!! > > John > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, Lainey Alexander  > > <lainealex@> wrote: > > > > > > Hi again - > > > > > > Today I can clearly see that my tank is having an algae bloom and is > > > very green, getting greener all the time. I still have zero readings > > > for phosphate, nitrate, nitrite and ammonia. Everything I am reading > > > says I have to turn off the lights for several days, but I am not > > > sure my newly planted plants will endure this. I am trying to search > > > planted tank forum but the search isn't working. > > > > > > Does anyone have direct experience of green water in a new tank?  > > Do I > > > need to turn off the lights? Nothing I read seems to indicate that > > > this problem will go away on its own. > > > > > > I don't have the type of cloudiness that seems to be bacterial, mine > > > is really green - looks just awful! > > > > > > Thanks for everything... > > > > > > Lainey > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > ------------------------------------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the home page.  Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com to receive the digest, which includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com for the No E-Mail option where you will still be able to read messages on the group and post replies. Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com to receive individual e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 43828	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 10/15/2009
Subject: Re: Green water continued

Lainey, While your planted tank will do a LOT towards keeping phosphorous and nitrogenous waste levels down very low, they DO NOT do anything about hormone and pheromone levels. While your fish may be small today, they SHOULD grow rapidly in their first few months to a year and it is during this fast growth period that they will get stunted if kept in over crowded conditions. Fish should ONLY be stocked based on their EXPECTED ADULT SIZE so that they have the ability to grow to full sized healthy adult fish. Overcrowding them during their primary growth stage will result in stunting and have long term health effects on the fish which usually results in a much shorter lifespan for the stunted fish. While your tank has 37G of water volume, it still has the footprint of a 20G tank (24" x 12") which makes a BIG difference in stocking fish. While the 37G of water volume will help with the dilution of pollution levels, such as nitrate, etc., it does not help with the fish seeing and feeling overcrowded and sensing and reacting to the elevated hormone levels which will still exist even when the nitrates and other pollutants are within acceptable levels. For example, if there were 10 people in a room that was 6' x 8' x 50' high, they would feel a lot more crowded than those same people in a hallway that was 50' long, 6' wide and 8' high. There would still be the same amount of oxygen in either space so they wouldn't die of oxygen depletion but they would be much more stressed and anxious since they would not have much of their own "space". Using the 6X to 8X guideline, you should not keep any fish that are expected to grow to more than 3" to 4"... so that the tank is 8X or 6X longer than the adult sized fish... 8X for fast swimming fish, 6X for slower swimming fish. Yes, fish do have the ability to swim up and down and take advantage of the various levels of a tank but many fish have preferred levels. If stocking of a TALL tank was done so that there were some fish that always stayed near the surface and some fish that always stayed on the bottom, then the middle dwellers would not feel as cramped but I'm not sure that your current stocking levels have taken this into effect. All this said, please seriously reconsider rehoming any fish that are expected to grow to more than 3" to 4" (slow swimmers).. primarily the six SAE's. And next, if all of your remaining fish will remain less than 3" as adults and are divided between the 3 layers of the tank, add up the total expected adult sized inches and if that exceeds 30, then rehome some more until you get the total expected adult sized inches to around 30". This is the ONLY time that the 1 gallon per inch guideline will work... when the adult fish will not be more than 3" long. For fish that are expected to grow to more than 3", you need MUCH more water per adult sized inch of fish... 2X, 3X, even 5X to 10X more. See my blog article about this topic for more information and the actual discussion between dozens of fish keepers which led me to writing that article. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Lainey Alexander Sent: Thursday, October 15, 2009 10:26 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: Green water continued All of my fish are very young and none of them is larger than about two inches, but most are only 1 to 1.5 inches. As soon as the SAEs get to be four inches I will have to get a bigger tank or else trade them in. Same for the rams if they get too much bigger. I am trying to be very careful not to overcrowd, so while I have largish numbers, I have to say sometimes I only see about seven fish at a time because everyone is so small and they remain hidden much of the time. With my nitrate levels at zero I'm not sure I can be too high on my bioload? Lainey http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com On Oct 14, 2009, at 2:56 PM, gailsugarpants wrote: > Lainey > Wow, you have 34 fish for a 37 gallon tank. That is a high ratio. > How big are the SAEs? I see that they get up to 6" and that is pretty > big. They could possibly be the heaviest part of your bioload. > > Can you tell us how often you do maintenance on your tank? Do you do > weekly water changes and vaccum your gravel? Also, how you maintain > your filtration system? That info can be helpful too. > > Thanks, > Gail > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, Lainey Alexander <lainealex@...> > wrote: > > > > Hi Gail - > > > > I just posted my tank measurements, it's 37g and for fish it's: > > > > 7 RN tetras > > 13 celestial pearl danios (one inch) > > 5 cory catfish > > 2 blue rams > > 6 siamese algae eaters > > 1 dwarf puffer (very gentle) > > > > It doesn't look too crowded to me, and I am not planning any > > additions, but I know the SAEs may outgrow the tank... > > > > Lainey > > http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 43829	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 10/15/2009
Subject: Re: Green water continued

Actually, the six SAE's should grow to around 6" each http://www.thekrib.com/Fish/Algae-Eaters/. Since a maximum of 6" torpedo shaped fish should have at least 2 gallons per expected adult sized inch http://goldlenny.blogspot.com/2007/02/new-rules-guidelines-to-replace-1-per. html, these six fish should have at least 12G PER FISH, meaning 72G just for the six SAE's. Further, a 6" fish should be kept in an aquarium that is at least 36" to 48" long. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Amber Berglund Sent: Thursday, October 15, 2009 10:55 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: Green water continued Also it doesn't matter how young the fish are, they should still be calculated by their full growth at adult size. Your tank is actually very overcrowded mostly from your 6 algae eaters that will grow to be over several inches long. You can get away with over stocking a tank but you have to clean it a lot more often than you have been otherwise the water gets very gross very fast, and the suspended algae is what is saving you right now, otherwise you could have some excess amonia or nitrate or something similar that kills all your fish. So don't dislike the green water too much, it's keeping your fish alive until you can sort out what's going on in your tank. Amber Lainey Alexander wrote: > > > All of my fish are very young and none of them is larger than about > two inches, but most are only 1 to 1.5 inches. As soon as the SAEs get > to be four inches I will have to get a bigger tank or else trade them > in. Same for the rams if they get too much bigger. I am trying to be > very careful not to overcrowd, so while I have largish numbers, I have > to say sometimes I only see about seven fish at a time because > everyone is so small and they remain hidden much of the time. With my > nitrate levels at zero I'm not sure I can be too high on my bioload? > > Lainey > http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com > <http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com> > > On Oct 14, 2009, at 2:56 PM, gailsugarpants wrote: > > > Lainey > > Wow, you have 34 fish for a 37 gallon tank. That is a high ratio. > > How big are the SAEs? I see that they get up to 6" and that is > > pretty big. They could possibly be the heaviest part of your bioload. > > > > Can you tell us how often you do maintenance on your tank? Do you do > > weekly water changes and vaccum your gravel? Also, how you maintain > > your filtration system? That info can be helpful too. > > > > Thanks, > > Gail > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>, Lainey Alexander > > <lainealex@...> wrote: > > > > > > Hi Gail - > > > > > > I just posted my tank measurements, it's 37g and for fish it's: > > > > > > 7 RN tetras > > > 13 celestial pearl danios (one inch) > > > 5 cory catfish > > > 2 blue rams > > > 6 siamese algae eaters > > > 1 dwarf puffer (very gentle) > > > > > > It doesn't look too crowded to me, and I am not planning any > > > additions, but I know the SAEs may outgrow the tank... > > > > > > Lainey > > > http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com > <http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com> > > > > > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > ------------------------------------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the home page. Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com to receive the digest, which includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com for the No E-Mail option where you will still be able to read messages on the group and post replies. Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com to receive individual e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 43830	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 10/15/2009
Subject: Re: Green water continued

She said she didn't know which they were I thought, or I may be getting my threads mixed, so I didn't want to say 6 inches when I wasn't sure what type of algae eaters they were, I just remembered her having them. I knew they'd grow over 3-4 inches at least though, so I stayed with the safe guess ;) LOL. I did notice that the tank was quite a bit crowded though and was trying to point out that the algae eaters should be the first to go since they are the largest fish she has. Amber Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > > > Actually, the six SAE's should grow to around 6" each > http://www.thekrib.com/Fish/Algae-Eaters/. > <http://www.thekrib.com/Fish/Algae-Eaters/.> > > Since a maximum of 6" torpedo shaped fish should have at least 2 > gallons per > expected adult sized inch > http://goldlenny.blogspot.com/2007/02/new-rules-guidelines-to-replace-1-per. > <http://goldlenny.blogspot.com/2007/02/new-rules-guidelines-to-replace-1-per.> > html, these six fish should have at least 12G PER FISH, meaning 72G > just for > the six SAE's. Further, a 6" fish should be kept in an aquarium that is at > least 36" to 48" long. > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right > side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On > Behalf Of Amber Berglund > Sent: Thursday, October 15, 2009 10:55 AM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: Green water continued > > Also it doesn't matter how young the fish are, they should still be > calculated by their full growth at adult size. Your tank is actually very > overcrowded mostly from your 6 algae eaters that will grow to be over > several inches long. > You can get away with over stocking a tank but you have to clean it a lot > more often than you have been otherwise the water gets very gross very > fast, > and the suspended algae is what is saving you right now, otherwise you > could > have some excess amonia or nitrate or something similar that kills all > your > fish. So don't dislike the green water too much, it's keeping your fish > alive until you can sort out what's going on in your tank. > > Amber > > Lainey Alexander wrote: > > > > > > All of my fish are very young and none of them is larger than about > > two inches, but most are only 1 to 1.5 inches. As soon as the SAEs get > > to be four inches I will have to get a bigger tank or else trade them > > in. Same for the rams if they get too much bigger. I am trying to be > > very careful not to overcrowd, so while I have largish numbers, I have > > to say sometimes I only see about seven fish at a time because > > everyone is so small and they remain hidden much of the time. With my > > nitrate levels at zero I'm not sure I can be too high on my bioload? > > > > Lainey > > http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com <http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com> > > <http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com > <http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com>> > > > > On Oct 14, 2009, at 2:56 PM, gailsugarpants wrote: > > > > > Lainey > > > Wow, you have 34 fish for a 37 gallon tank. That is a high ratio. > > > How big are the SAEs? I see that they get up to 6" and that is > > > pretty big. They could possibly be the heaviest part of your bioload. > > > > > > Can you tell us how often you do maintenance on your tank? Do you do > > > weekly water changes and vaccum your gravel? Also, how you maintain > > > your filtration system? That info can be helpful too. > > > > > > Thanks, > > > Gail > > > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>, Lainey Alexander > > > <lainealex@...> wrote: > > > > > > > > Hi Gail - > > > > > > > > I just posted my tank measurements, it's 37g and for fish it's: > > > > > > > > 7 RN tetras > > > > 13 celestial pearl danios (one inch) > > > > 5 cory catfish > > > > 2 blue rams > > > > 6 siamese algae eaters > > > > 1 dwarf puffer (very gentle) > > > > > > > > It doesn't look too crowded to me, and I am not planning any > > > > additions, but I know the SAEs may outgrow the tank... > > > > > > > > Lainey > > > > http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com > <http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com> > > <http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com > <http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com>> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > > > ------------------------------------ > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. > ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> > PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to > the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the > SUBJECT > LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- > <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. > > If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of unsubscribing, you > can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the > home page. > > Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:aquaticlife-digest%40yahoogroups.com> to receive the digest, which > includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email > > Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:aquaticlife-nomail%40yahoogroups.com> for the No E-Mail option > where > you will still be able to read messages on the group and post replies. > > Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:aquaticlife-normal%40yahoogroups.com> to receive individual > e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 43831	From: sevenspringss@wmconnect.com	Date: 10/15/2009
Subject: Re: Green water continued

Lainey, With following this thread now for some time, and seeing that others have given you good advice on how to control this suspended algae, if in fact thats what you have (which still seems to be in question at this tim), I thought I'd jump in here as you don't seem to be having much success. Know though, that if it is suspended algae, it will not be going away overnight -- or or two or three nights. Looking back to Monday (at 8:38 PM), you said the water was very green and getting greener, and that you could clearly see that your tank was getting an algae bloom -- yet at 11:51 PM that same evening you said you put some water in a white bowl (which I believe turned out to be a green bowl later), and that you couldn't tell if the water was green or yellow -- seemingly having doubts that you had an algae problem. At this point, I don't know if this has yet been established, although it does appear to me that's what you have. As Lenny pointed out, normal/average tank illumination should be in between 8 and 9 hours, unless you know the balance of your tank will not permit an algae growth beyond that. While you stated that, 12 hours per day was what you were told, as for the light requirements of your plants, I haven't seen you mention what kind of plants you have -- or how densely you have your tank planted with them. Please tell us what plants you have and how many of them. Even plants requiring more light need to first get established in order to take advantage of the amount of light you've been giving them. Cutting down on the light completely will not eliminate the problem, at least not in a safe way, and if it did, the problem will only return once you keep the lights on again. Amber's algae problem seemed to go away gradually -- but each tank is different -- and not everybody's suspended algae goes away spontaneously or by itself over time. The best and most recognized way to eliminate any algae is to have a sufficient amount of growing (established and rooted) plants that will out-compete the algae for food -- and this method almost always works provided there is a sufficient amount of plants to begin with (which I'm now tending to doubt), and providing the suspended algae has not been allowed to reach the point where it's cutting out the light needed by the plants. Doing partial water changes may only feed and stimulate the algae, depending on any amounts of plant nutrients that may be found in your water supply. This would lead to an even thicker algae bloom. Turning off the lights completely often can lead to a sudden crash of this algae population, killing most of it all at once, wherein an even larger bacterial bloom will take over -- feeding on all the dead algae -- and consuming most of the oxygen leading to a fish die-off. Clearing this up with partial water changes to save the balance of your fish will ensure the re-growth of new suspended algae as they will now feed on these nutrients with little to compete with them. Shutting down the lights will be detrimental to your plants. You need to get more plants and -- for now -- until you get the algae under control -- have the lights on for no more than 8 (9 at the very maximum) hours per day. The main thing is that you need more live plants. Under normal circumstances, the nitrogen cycle will see at least some production of nitrate if it is working properly -- which you should detect when testing for it. That you are not getting a reading for nitrate indicates it is being used (by the algae) as fast as it's being produced. Since you cut back on the feeding, and are keeping the nitrate production at a minimum, there is nothing further you can do besides starve it out. While we still need to know what plants and the amount of them that you have, I'd advise you add plants right now that are known plant-nutrient gobblers, even though you may not necessarily have planned on them. Get yourself several bunches of Hornwort, and treat it as though it's just a temporary measure in getting rid of this algae. In the meantime, as the algae clears, start adding more of the higher-light plants you said you already had some of, if this is what you prefer, and at the time they all become well established trade or give the Hornwort back to your LFS, unless you prefer to keep it. It still remains how high the light requirements really are for your existing plants, which is another thing I must question, as we don't know what plants you have. Ray P.S.: An ultra-violet filter will kill off this algae, which would then be needed to be cleaned up from the gravel as it falls dead, but this will not address the main issues. You need to get a good population of live plants going, preferably cutting down on the light duration if they permit it (depending on what plants you have), and more plants will permit a longer duration, although it (additional lighting duration) should not be required. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 43832	From: Lainey Alexander	Date: 10/15/2009
Subject: Re: Green water continued

If I want to keep my current flock:) what would be the appropriate gallon size and tank size for them? 65g with a bigger footprint? Thank you, Lainey http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com On Oct 15, 2009, at 12:56 PM, Amber Berglund wrote: > She said she didn't know which they were I thought, or I may be > getting > my threads mixed, so I didn't want to say 6 inches when I wasn't sure > what type of algae eaters they were, I just remembered her having > them. > I knew they'd grow over 3-4 inches at least though, so I stayed > with the > safe guess ;) LOL. > I did notice that the tank was quite a bit crowded though and was > trying > to point out that the algae eaters should be the first to go since > they > are the largest fish she has. > > Amber > > Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > > > > > > Actually, the six SAE's should grow to around 6" each > > http://www.thekrib.com/Fish/Algae-Eaters/. > > <http://www.thekrib.com/Fish/Algae-Eaters/.> > > > > Since a maximum of 6" torpedo shaped fish should have at least 2 > > gallons per > > expected adult sized inch > > http://goldlenny.blogspot.com/2007/02/new-rules-guidelines-to- > replace-1-per. > > <http://goldlenny.blogspot.com/2007/02/new-rules-guidelines-to- > replace-1-per.> > > html, these six fish should have at least 12G PER FISH, meaning 72G > > just for > > the six SAE's. Further, a 6" fish should be kept in an aquarium > that is at > > least 36" to 48" long. > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http:// > GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on > the right > > side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by > Year, Month) > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On > > Behalf Of Amber Berglund > > Sent: Thursday, October 15, 2009 10:55 AM > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife% > 40yahoogroups.com> > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: Green water continued > > > > Also it doesn't matter how young the fish are, they should still be > > calculated by their full growth at adult size. Your tank is > actually very > > overcrowded mostly from your 6 algae eaters that will grow to be > over > > several inches long. > > You can get away with over stocking a tank but you have to clean > it a lot > > more often than you have been otherwise the water gets very gross > very > > fast, > > and the suspended algae is what is saving you right now, > otherwise you > > could > > have some excess amonia or nitrate or something similar that > kills all > > your > > fish. So don't dislike the green water too much, it's keeping > your fish > > alive until you can sort out what's going on in your tank. > > > > Amber > > > > Lainey Alexander wrote: > > > > > > > > > All of my fish are very young and none of them is larger than > about > > > two inches, but most are only 1 to 1.5 inches. As soon as the > SAEs get > > > to be four inches I will have to get a bigger tank or else > trade them > > > in. Same for the rams if they get too much bigger. I am trying > to be > > > very careful not to overcrowd, so while I have largish numbers, > I have > > > to say sometimes I only see about seven fish at a time because > > > everyone is so small and they remain hidden much of the time. > With my > > > nitrate levels at zero I'm not sure I can be too high on my > bioload? > > > > > > Lainey > > > http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com <http:// > www.grasslandsgouldians.com> > > > <http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com > > <http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com>> > > > > > > On Oct 14, 2009, at 2:56 PM, gailsugarpants wrote: > > > > > > > Lainey > > > > Wow, you have 34 fish for a 37 gallon tank. That is a high > ratio. > > > > How big are the SAEs? I see that they get up to 6" and that is > > > > pretty big. They could possibly be the heaviest part of your > bioload. > > > > > > > > Can you tell us how often you do maintenance on your tank? Do > you do > > > > weekly water changes and vaccum your gravel? Also, how you > maintain > > > > your filtration system? That info can be helpful too. > > > > > > > > Thanks, > > > > Gail > > > > > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>, Lainey Alexander > > > > <lainealex@...> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > Hi Gail - > > > > > > > > > > I just posted my tank measurements, it's 37g and for fish > it's: > > > > > > > > > > 7 RN tetras > > > > > 13 celestial pearl danios (one inch) > > > > > 5 cory catfish > > > > > 2 blue rams > > > > > 6 siamese algae eaters > > > > > 1 dwarf puffer (very gentle) > > > > > > > > > > It doesn't look too crowded to me, and I am not planning any > > > > > additions, but I know the SAEs may outgrow the tank... > > > > > > > > > > Lainey > > > > > http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com > > <http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com> > > > <http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com > > <http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com>> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > > > > > > > ------------------------------------ > > > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, > Thank You. > > ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..>< > ((((º> > > PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT > important to > > the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the > > SUBJECT > > LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- > > <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><· > ´¯`·.¸¸. > > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. > > > > If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of > unsubscribing, you > > can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My > Membership" on the > > home page. > > > > Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com > > <mailto:aquaticlife-digest%40yahoogroups.com> to receive the > digest, which > > includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email > > > > Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com > > <mailto:aquaticlife-nomail%40yahoogroups.com> for the No E-Mail > option > > where > > you will still be able to read messages on the group and post > replies. > > > > Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com > > <mailto:aquaticlife-normal%40yahoogroups.com> to receive individual > > e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 43833	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 10/15/2009
Subject: Re: Green water continued

Ray, What about the fact that she has a 37G TALL (30" tall) tank? I'm not sure standard fluorescent lighting will even reach down to plants on the bottom of this tank (since I've never had a tank this deep)... at least not at the light strength and spectrum needed for good plant growth. This could also be why the algae is taking over since it's in the water column and therefore able to be closer to the lighting. I believe one would need more advanced halogen or LED lighting that would be beam-type lighting to pierce down to the bottom in a deeper tank. I do not think normal fluorescent, and possibly even CFL's with the diffuser coating on the bulbs would allow for a light that would pierce down that deep.. unless it was really a LOT of wattage. Certainly the hornwort or anacharis type fast growing, stalk plants that can just be left floating would help to outcompete the algae and also take advantage of the lighting and extra CO2 from the surface air. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of sevenspringss@... Sent: Thursday, October 15, 2009 12:05 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: Green water continued Lainey, With following this thread now for some time, and seeing that others have given you good advice on how to control this suspended algae, if in fact thats what you have (which still seems to be in question at this tim), I thought I'd jump in here as you don't seem to be having much success. Know though, that if it is suspended algae, it will not be going away overnight -- or or two or three nights. Looking back to Monday (at 8:38 PM), you said the water was very green and getting greener, and that you could clearly see that your tank was getting an algae bloom -- yet at 11:51 PM that same evening you said you put some water in a white bowl (which I believe turned out to be a green bowl later), and that you couldn't tell if the water was green or yellow -- seemingly having doubts that you had an algae problem. At this point, I don't know if this has yet been established, although it does appear to me that's what you have. As Lenny pointed out, normal/average tank illumination should be in between 8 and 9 hours, unless you know the balance of your tank will not permit an algae growth beyond that. While you stated that, 12 hours per day was what you were told, as for the light requirements of your plants, I haven't seen you mention what kind of plants you have -- or how densely you have your tank planted with them. Please tell us what plants you have and how many of them. Even plants requiring more light need to first get established in order to take advantage of the amount of light you've been giving them. Cutting down on the light completely will not eliminate the problem, at least not in a safe way, and if it did, the problem will only return once you keep the lights on again. Amber's algae problem seemed to go away gradually -- but each tank is different -- and not everybody's suspended algae goes away spontaneously or by itself over time. The best and most recognized way to eliminate any algae is to have a sufficient amount of growing (established and rooted) plants that will out-compete the algae for food -- and this method almost always works provided there is a sufficient amount of plants to begin with (which I'm now tending to doubt), and providing the suspended algae has not been allowed to reach the point where it's cutting out the light needed by the plants. Doing partial water changes may only feed and stimulate the algae, depending on any amounts of plant nutrients that may be found in your water supply. This would lead to an even thicker algae bloom. Turning off the lights completely often can lead to a sudden crash of this algae population, killing most of it all at once, wherein an even larger bacterial bloom will take over -- feeding on all the dead algae -- and consuming most of the oxygen leading to a fish die-off. Clearing this up with partial water changes to save the balance of your fish will ensure the re-growth of new suspended algae as they will now feed on these nutrients with little to compete with them. Shutting down the lights will be detrimental to your plants. You need to get more plants and -- for now -- until you get the algae under control -- have the lights on for no more than 8 (9 at the very maximum) hours per day. The main thing is that you need more live plants. Under normal circumstances, the nitrogen cycle will see at least some production of nitrate if it is working properly -- which you should detect when testing for it. That you are not getting a reading for nitrate indicates it is being used (by the algae) as fast as it's being produced. Since you cut back on the feeding, and are keeping the nitrate production at a minimum, there is nothing further you can do besides starve it out. While we still need to know what plants and the amount of them that you have, I'd advise you add plants right now that are known plant-nutrient gobblers, even though you may not necessarily have planned on them. Get yourself several bunches of Hornwort, and treat it as though it's just a temporary measure in getting rid of this algae. In the meantime, as the algae clears, start adding more of the higher-light plants you said you already had some of, if this is what you prefer, and at the time they all become well established trade or give the Hornwort back to your LFS, unless you prefer to keep it. It still remains how high the light requirements really are for your existing plants, which is another thing I must question, as we don't know what plants you have. Ray P.S.: An ultra-violet filter will kill off this algae, which would then be needed to be cleaned up from the gravel as it falls dead, but this will not address the main issues. You need to get a good population of live plants going, preferably cutting down on the light duration if they permit it (depending on what plants you have), and more plants will permit a longer duration, although it (additional lighting duration) should not be required.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 43834	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 10/15/2009
Subject: Re: Green water continued

Including the six SAE's.... probably around 100G. A 65G with a 48" x 18" footprint, which is what I have for my two fancy goldfish and a 3" clown pleco, would possibly work for you but you might have to do twice weekly 25% PWC's which would then, at least, mimic the 65G being a larger tank as far as water volume goes. And the 48" x 18" footprint gives a lot more surface area for adequate gas exchange and also gives more square footage on the bottom and other layers so the fish do not feel cramped. What possessed you to get six SAE's and did you know how big they would get? Most people only get one or two for algae eating purposes. While they do best in schools, they can be kept individually. Did your fish store talk you into six of them? Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Lainey Alexander Sent: Thursday, October 15, 2009 12:03 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: Green water continued If I want to keep my current flock:) what would be the appropriate gallon size and tank size for them? 65g with a bigger footprint? Thank you, Lainey http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com On Oct 15, 2009, at 12:56 PM, Amber Berglund wrote: > She said she didn't know which they were I thought, or I may be > getting my threads mixed, so I didn't want to say 6 inches when I > wasn't sure what type of algae eaters they were, I just remembered her > having them. > I knew they'd grow over 3-4 inches at least though, so I stayed with > the safe guess ;) LOL. > I did notice that the tank was quite a bit crowded though and was > trying to point out that the algae eaters should be the first to go > since they are the largest fish she has. > > Amber > > Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > > > > > > Actually, the six SAE's should grow to around 6" each > > http://www.thekrib.com/Fish/Algae-Eaters/. > > <http://www.thekrib.com/Fish/Algae-Eaters/.> > > > > Since a maximum of 6" torpedo shaped fish should have at least 2 > > gallons per expected adult sized inch > > http://goldlenny.blogspot.com/2007/02/new-rules-guidelines-to- > replace-1-per. > > <http://goldlenny.blogspot.com/2007/02/new-rules-guidelines-to- > replace-1-per.> > > html, these six fish should have at least 12G PER FISH, meaning 72G > > just for the six SAE's. Further, a 6" fish should be kept in an > > aquarium > that is at > > least 36" to 48" long. > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http:// > GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on > the right > > side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by > Year, Month) > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On Behalf Of Amber Berglund > > Sent: Thursday, October 15, 2009 10:55 AM > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife% > 40yahoogroups.com> > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: Green water continued > > > > Also it doesn't matter how young the fish are, they should still be > > calculated by their full growth at adult size. Your tank is > actually very > > overcrowded mostly from your 6 algae eaters that will grow to be > over > > several inches long. > > You can get away with over stocking a tank but you have to clean > it a lot > > more often than you have been otherwise the water gets very gross > very > > fast, > > and the suspended algae is what is saving you right now, > otherwise you > > could > > have some excess amonia or nitrate or something similar that > kills all > > your > > fish. So don't dislike the green water too much, it's keeping > your fish > > alive until you can sort out what's going on in your tank. > > > > Amber > > > > Lainey Alexander wrote: > > > > > > > > > All of my fish are very young and none of them is larger than > about > > > two inches, but most are only 1 to 1.5 inches. As soon as the > SAEs get > > > to be four inches I will have to get a bigger tank or else > trade them > > > in. Same for the rams if they get too much bigger. I am trying > to be > > > very careful not to overcrowd, so while I have largish numbers, > I have > > > to say sometimes I only see about seven fish at a time because > > > everyone is so small and they remain hidden much of the time. > With my > > > nitrate levels at zero I'm not sure I can be too high on my > bioload? > > > > > > Lainey > > > http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com <http:// > www.grasslandsgouldians.com> > > > <http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com > > <http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com>> > > > > > > On Oct 14, 2009, at 2:56 PM, gailsugarpants wrote: > > > > > > > Lainey > > > > Wow, you have 34 fish for a 37 gallon tank. That is a high > ratio. > > > > How big are the SAEs? I see that they get up to 6" and that is > > > > pretty big. They could possibly be the heaviest part of your > bioload. > > > > > > > > Can you tell us how often you do maintenance on your tank? Do > you do > > > > weekly water changes and vaccum your gravel? Also, how you > maintain > > > > your filtration system? That info can be helpful too. > > > > > > > > Thanks, > > > > Gail > > > > > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>, Lainey Alexander > > > > <lainealex@...> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > Hi Gail - > > > > > > > > > > I just posted my tank measurements, it's 37g and for fish > it's: > > > > > > > > > > 7 RN tetras > > > > > 13 celestial pearl danios (one inch) > > > > > 5 cory catfish > > > > > 2 blue rams > > > > > 6 siamese algae eaters > > > > > 1 dwarf puffer (very gentle) > > > > > > > > > > It doesn't look too crowded to me, and I am not planning any > > > > > additions, but I know the SAEs may outgrow the tank... > > > > > > > > > > Lainey > > > > > http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com > > <http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com> > > > <http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com > > <http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com>>

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 43835	From: Lainey Alexander	Date: 10/15/2009
Subject: Re: Green water continued

I'm embarrassed to admit this, but the guy at Arizona Aquatics talked me into the six, and then the idea was that some of them never get to be the full size, supposedly many of them stay fairly small. I realize now that all of this is completely bad information, but I'm stuck with it. As soon as I realized what had happened I decided to return them to a LFS, but the problem is, I really like them! But yes, I know they will have to be rehomed, at least most of them. They are doing an amazing job on hair algae and other types of algae on the plants, and with my dwarf puffer I can't have snails or probably shrimp either, so I am getting attached to the SAEs. I don't like plecos... Lainey http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com On Oct 15, 2009, at 2:01 PM, Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > Including the six SAE's.... probably around 100G. A 65G with a 48" > x 18" > footprint, which is what I have for my two fancy goldfish and a 3" > clown > pleco, would possibly work for you but you might have to do twice > weekly 25% > PWC's which would then, at least, mimic the 65G being a larger tank > as far > as water volume goes. And the 48" x 18" footprint gives a lot more > surface > area for adequate gas exchange and also gives more square footage > on the > bottom and other layers so the fish do not feel cramped. > > What possessed you to get six SAE's and did you know how big they > would get? > Most people only get one or two for algae eating purposes. While > they do > best in schools, they can be kept individually. Did your fish store > talk > you into six of them? > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the > right > side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, > Month) > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On > Behalf Of Lainey Alexander > Sent: Thursday, October 15, 2009 12:03 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: Green water continued > > If I want to keep my current flock:) what would be the appropriate > gallon > size and tank size for them? 65g with a bigger footprint? > > Thank you, > > Lainey > http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com > > On Oct 15, 2009, at 12:56 PM, Amber Berglund wrote: > > > She said she didn't know which they were I thought, or I may be > > getting my threads mixed, so I didn't want to say 6 inches when I > > wasn't sure what type of algae eaters they were, I just > remembered her > > having them. > > I knew they'd grow over 3-4 inches at least though, so I stayed with > > the safe guess ;) LOL. > > I did notice that the tank was quite a bit crowded though and was > > trying to point out that the algae eaters should be the first to go > > since they are the largest fish she has. > > > > Amber > > > > Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > > > > > > > > > Actually, the six SAE's should grow to around 6" each > > > http://www.thekrib.com/Fish/Algae-Eaters/. > > > <http://www.thekrib.com/Fish/Algae-Eaters/.> > > > > > > Since a maximum of 6" torpedo shaped fish should have at least 2 > > > gallons per expected adult sized inch > > > http://goldlenny.blogspot.com/2007/02/new-rules-guidelines-to- > > replace-1-per. > > > <http://goldlenny.blogspot.com/2007/02/new-rules-guidelines-to- > > replace-1-per.> > > > html, these six fish should have at least 12G PER FISH, meaning > 72G > > > just for the six SAE's. Further, a 6" fish should be kept in an > > > aquarium > > that is at > > > least 36" to 48" long. > > > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http:// > > GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on > > the right > > > side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by > > Year, Month) > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On Behalf Of Amber > Berglund > > > Sent: Thursday, October 15, 2009 10:55 AM > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife% > > 40yahoogroups.com> > > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: Green water continued > > > > > > Also it doesn't matter how young the fish are, they should > still be > > > calculated by their full growth at adult size. Your tank is > > actually very > > > overcrowded mostly from your 6 algae eaters that will grow to be > > over > > > several inches long. > > > You can get away with over stocking a tank but you have to clean > > it a lot > > > more often than you have been otherwise the water gets very gross > > very > > > fast, > > > and the suspended algae is what is saving you right now, > > otherwise you > > > could > > > have some excess amonia or nitrate or something similar that > > kills all > > > your > > > fish. So don't dislike the green water too much, it's keeping > > your fish > > > alive until you can sort out what's going on in your tank. > > > > > > Amber > > > > > > Lainey Alexander wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > All of my fish are very young and none of them is larger than > > about > > > > two inches, but most are only 1 to 1.5 inches. As soon as the > > SAEs get > > > > to be four inches I will have to get a bigger tank or else > > trade them > > > > in. Same for the rams if they get too much bigger. I am trying > > to be > > > > very careful not to overcrowd, so while I have largish numbers, > > I have > > > > to say sometimes I only see about seven fish at a time because > > > > everyone is so small and they remain hidden much of the time. > > With my > > > > nitrate levels at zero I'm not sure I can be too high on my > > bioload? > > > > > > > > Lainey > > > > http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com <http:// > > www.grasslandsgouldians.com> > > > > <http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com > > > <http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com>> > > > > > > > > On Oct 14, 2009, at 2:56 PM, gailsugarpants wrote: > > > > > > > > > Lainey > > > > > Wow, you have 34 fish for a 37 gallon tank. That is a high > > ratio. > > > > > How big are the SAEs? I see that they get up to 6" and that is > > > > > pretty big. They could possibly be the heaviest part of your > > bioload. > > > > > > > > > > Can you tell us how often you do maintenance on your tank? Do > > you do > > > > > weekly water changes and vaccum your gravel? Also, how you > > maintain > > > > > your filtration system? That info can be helpful too. > > > > > > > > > > Thanks, > > > > > Gail > > > > > > > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>, Lainey Alexander > > > > > <lainealex@...> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > Hi Gail - > > > > > > > > > > > > I just posted my tank measurements, it's 37g and for fish > > it's: > > > > > > > > > > > > 7 RN tetras > > > > > > 13 celestial pearl danios (one inch) > > > > > > 5 cory catfish > > > > > > 2 blue rams > > > > > > 6 siamese algae eaters > > > > > > 1 dwarf puffer (very gentle) > > > > > > > > > > > > It doesn't look too crowded to me, and I am not planning any > > > > > > additions, but I know the SAEs may outgrow the tank... > > > > > > > > > > > > Lainey > > > > > > http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com > > > <http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com> > > > > <http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com > > > <http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com>> > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 43836	From: sevenspringss@wmconnect.com	Date: 10/15/2009
Subject: Re: Green water continued

Lenny, Yeah, I forgot about the 30" depth. I seem to remember reading that, now that you mention it -- she would probably need special lighting especially for any short plants on the bottom -- and I'd still like to know what those plants are. Right, the floating Hornwort or Anacharis should out-compete the suspended algae. I always recommended either of those for suspended algae problems in ponds, and they can average 3' deep. Always had favorable results reported back, when combined with other recommendations (such as using 60% floating plant cover of some [varying] type or types) in ponds. Ray [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 43837	From: Lainey Alexander	Date: 10/15/2009
Subject: Re: Green water continued

I completely agree with all of this post, and these are the exact conclusions I have come to. As mentioned in another post, I removed several strands of hornwort prior to the green water, and obviously I didn't realize what the effect would be. However, I already do have quite a few plants, so I really think it was the hornwort that was the major issue. Here is what I have: 2 small-type swords 2 anubias 1 red myriophyllum 1 green myriophyllum 1 green cabomba 1 purple cabomba 4 bunches of micro sword 1 limnophila hippuroides 2 rotala indica a few strands of hornwort I am not planning to keep all of these in the tank if they don't do well, but so far they are all doing well except the purple cabomba which is my favorite unfortunately. Lainey http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com On Oct 15, 2009, at 1:04 PM, sevenspringss@... wrote: > Lainey, With following this thread now for some time, and seeing that > others have given you good advice on how to control this suspended > algae, if in > fact thats what you have (which still seems to be in question at > this tim), > I thought I'd jump in here as you don't seem to be having much > success. > Know though, that if it is suspended algae, it will not be going > away overnight > -- or or two or three nights. > > Looking back to Monday (at 8:38 PM), you said the water was very > green and > getting greener, and that you could clearly see that your tank was > getting > an algae bloom -- yet at 11:51 PM that same evening you said you > put some > water in a white bowl (which I believe turned out to be a green > bowl later), > and that you couldn't tell if the water was green or yellow -- > seemingly > having doubts that you had an algae problem. At this point, I don't > know if this > has yet been established, although it does appear to me that's what > you > have. > > As Lenny pointed out, normal/average tank illumination should be in > between > 8 and 9 hours, unless you know the balance of your tank will not > permit an > algae growth beyond that. While you stated that, 12 hours per day > was what > you were told, as for the light requirements of your plants, I > haven't seen > you mention what kind of plants you have -- or how densely you have > your > tank planted with them. Please tell us what plants you have and how > many of > them. Even plants requiring more light need to first get > established in order > to take advantage of the amount of light you've been giving them. > > Cutting down on the light completely will not eliminate the > problem, at > least not in a safe way, and if it did, the problem will only > return once you > keep the lights on again. Amber's algae problem seemed to go away > gradually > -- but each tank is different -- and not everybody's suspended > algae goes > away spontaneously or by itself over time. The best and most > recognized way > to eliminate any algae is to have a sufficient amount of growing > (established > and rooted) plants that will out-compete the algae for food -- and > this > method almost always works provided there is a sufficient amount of > plants to > begin with (which I'm now tending to doubt), and providing the > suspended > algae has not been allowed to reach the point where it's cutting > out the light > needed by the plants. > > Doing partial water changes may only feed and stimulate the algae, > depending on any amounts of plant nutrients that may be found in > your water supply. > This would lead to an even thicker algae bloom. Turning off the lights > completely often can lead to a sudden crash of this algae > population, killing > most of it all at once, wherein an even larger bacterial bloom will > take over > -- feeding on all the dead algae -- and consuming most of the oxygen > leading to a fish die-off. Clearing this up with partial water > changes to save > the balance of your fish will ensure the re-growth of new suspended > algae as > they will now feed on these nutrients with little to compete with > them. > Shutting down the lights will be detrimental to your plants. You > need to get > more plants and -- for now -- until you get the algae under control > -- have > the lights on for no more than 8 (9 at the very maximum) hours per > day. The > main thing is that you need more live plants. > > Under normal circumstances, the nitrogen cycle will see at least some > production of nitrate if it is working properly -- which you should > detect when > testing for it. That you are not getting a reading for nitrate > indicates it > is being used (by the algae) as fast as it's being produced. Since > you cut > back on the feeding, and are keeping the nitrate production at a > minimum, > there is nothing further you can do besides starve it out. While we > still > need to know what plants and the amount of them that you have, I'd > advise you > add plants right now that are known plant-nutrient gobblers, even > though you > may not necessarily have planned on them. Get yourself several > bunches of > Hornwort, and treat it as though it's just a temporary measure in > getting rid > of this algae. In the meantime, as the algae clears, start adding > more of > the higher-light plants you said you already had some of, if this > is what > you prefer, and at the time they all become well established trade > or give the > Hornwort back to your LFS, unless you prefer to keep it. It still > remains > how high the light requirements really are for your existing > plants, which > is another thing I must question, as we don't know what plants you > have. Ray > > > P.S.: An ultra-violet filter will kill off this algae, which would > then be > needed to be cleaned up from the gravel as it falls dead, but this > will not > address the main issues. You need to get a good population of live > plants > going, preferably cutting down on the light duration if they permit it > (depending on what plants you have), and more plants will permit a > longer > duration, although it (additional lighting duration) should not be > required. > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 43838	From: Lainey Alexander	Date: 10/15/2009
Subject: Re: Green water continued

Ray and Lenny - I am slowly figuring out what happened to cause the green water, which I did have confirmed as what I have by two LFS. I wanted to raise the floor of the tank for the obvious reasons mentioned re light reaching the bottom, so I added about three inches of gravel, and the gravel contained a bunch of instant cycle type bacteria plus fertilizer. That was one thing that seemed to lead to the algae bloom. The other thing I did was I pulled out my hornwort and placed it into my quarantine tank where I wanted to use it to hide my ugly filter equipment in there. I think that was the one-two punch that led to the green water. I have now put the hornwort back into the green water tank and I am pretty happy with the substrate because it has raised up the floor quite a bit - about five or six inches. I have areas that are little hills where the gravel is about seven inches too. The plants are doing well, so I am hoping I am making at least a few good decisions... Lainey http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com On Oct 15, 2009, at 1:51 PM, Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > Ray, > > What about the fact that she has a 37G TALL (30" tall) tank? I'm > not sure > standard fluorescent lighting will even reach down to plants on the > bottom > of this tank (since I've never had a tank this deep)... at least > not at the > light strength and spectrum needed for good plant growth. This > could also > be why the algae is taking over since it's in the water column and > therefore > able to be closer to the lighting. I believe one would need more > advanced > halogen or LED lighting that would be beam-type lighting to pierce > down to > the bottom in a deeper tank. I do not think normal fluorescent, and > possibly even CFL's with the diffuser coating on the bulbs would > allow for a > light that would pierce down that deep.. unless it was really a LOT of > wattage. > > Certainly the hornwort or anacharis type fast growing, stalk plants > that can > just be left floating would help to outcompete the algae and also take > advantage of the lighting and extra CO2 from the surface air. > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the > right > side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, > Month) > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On > Behalf Of sevenspringss@... > Sent: Thursday, October 15, 2009 12:05 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: Green water continued > > Lainey, With following this thread now for some time, and seeing that > others have given you good advice on how to control this suspended > algae, if > in fact thats what you have (which still seems to be in question at > this > tim), I thought I'd jump in here as you don't seem to be having much > success. > Know though, that if it is suspended algae, it will not be going away > overnight > -- or or two or three nights. > > Looking back to Monday (at 8:38 PM), you said the water was very > green and > getting greener, and that you could clearly see that your tank was > getting > an algae bloom -- yet at 11:51 PM that same evening you said you > put some > water in a white bowl (which I believe turned out to be a green > bowl later), > and that you couldn't tell if the water was green or yellow -- > seemingly > having doubts that you had an algae problem. At this point, I don't > know if > this has yet been established, although it does appear to me that's > what you > have. > > As Lenny pointed out, normal/average tank illumination should be in > between > 8 and 9 hours, unless you know the balance of your tank will not > permit an > algae growth beyond that. While you stated that, 12 hours per day > was what > you were told, as for the light requirements of your plants, I > haven't seen > you mention what kind of plants you have -- or how densely you have > your > tank planted with them. Please tell us what plants you have and how > many of > them. Even plants requiring more light need to first get > established in > order to take advantage of the amount of light you've been giving > them. > > Cutting down on the light completely will not eliminate the > problem, at > least not in a safe way, and if it did, the problem will only > return once > you keep the lights on again. Amber's algae problem seemed to go away > gradually > -- but each tank is different -- and not everybody's suspended > algae goes > away spontaneously or by itself over time. The best and most > recognized way > to eliminate any algae is to have a sufficient amount of growing > (established and rooted) plants that will out-compete the algae for > food -- > and this method almost always works provided there is a sufficient > amount of > plants to begin with (which I'm now tending to doubt), and > providing the > suspended algae has not been allowed to reach the point where it's > cutting > out the light needed by the plants. > > Doing partial water changes may only feed and stimulate the algae, > depending > on any amounts of plant nutrients that may be found in your water > supply. > This would lead to an even thicker algae bloom. Turning off the lights > completely often can lead to a sudden crash of this algae population, > killing most of it all at once, wherein an even larger bacterial > bloom will > take over > -- feeding on all the dead algae -- and consuming most of the > oxygen leading > to a fish die-off. Clearing this up with partial water changes to > save the > balance of your fish will ensure the re-growth of new suspended > algae as > they will now feed on these nutrients with little to compete with > them. > Shutting down the lights will be detrimental to your plants. You > need to > get more plants and -- for now -- until you get the algae under > control -- > have the lights on for no more than 8 (9 at the very maximum) hours > per day. > The main thing is that you need more live plants. > > Under normal circumstances, the nitrogen cycle will see at least some > production of nitrate if it is working properly -- which you should > detect > when testing for it. That you are not getting a reading for nitrate > indicates it is being used (by the algae) as fast as it's being > produced. > Since you cut back on the feeding, and are keeping the nitrate > production at > a minimum, there is nothing further you can do besides starve it > out. While > we still need to know what plants and the amount of them that you > have, I'd > advise you add plants right now that are known plant-nutrient > gobblers, even > though you may not necessarily have planned on them. Get yourself > several > bunches of Hornwort, and treat it as though it's just a temporary > measure in > getting rid of this algae. In the meantime, as the algae clears, start > adding more of the higher-light plants you said you already had > some of, if > this is what you prefer, and at the time they all become well > established > trade or give the Hornwort back to your LFS, unless you prefer to > keep it. > It still remains how high the light requirements really are for your > existing plants, which is another thing I must question, as we > don't know > what plants you have. Ray > > > P.S.: An ultra-violet filter will kill off this algae, which would > then be > needed to be cleaned up from the gravel as it falls dead, but this > will not > address the main issues. You need to get a good population of live > plants > going, preferably cutting down on the light duration if they permit it > (depending on what plants you have), and more plants will permit a > longer > duration, although it (additional lighting duration) should not be > required. > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 43839	From: bill 1433	Date: 10/15/2009
Subject: Re: Green water continued

Hey Lainey, Take it easy! IF everyone did everything right------we wouldn't have anything to talk about, much less learn from! Remember though, I did ask you about "plants and the a bunch of instant cycle type bacteria plus fertilizer" that you are mentioning about now; way, way back in the beginning? Take care and just go along with what Ray and Len are telling you. Your in good hands! Bill --- On Thu, 10/15/09, Lainey Alexander <lainealex@...> wrote: > From: Lainey Alexander <lainealex@...> > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: Green water continued > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Date: Thursday, October 15, 2009, 2:33 PM > Ray and Lenny - > > I am slowly figuring out what happened to cause the green > water,  > which I did have confirmed as what I have by two LFS. > > I wanted to raise the floor of the tank for the obvious > reasons  > mentioned re light reaching the bottom, so I added about > three inches  > of gravel, and the gravel contained a bunch of instant > cycle type  > bacteria plus fertilizer. That was one thing that seemed to > lead to  > the algae bloom. The other thing I did was I pulled out my > hornwort  > and placed it into my quarantine tank where I wanted to use > it to  > hide my ugly filter equipment in there. > > I think that was the one-two punch that led to the green > water. I  > have now put the hornwort back into the green water tank > and I am  > pretty happy with the substrate because it has raised up > the floor  > quite a bit - about five or six inches. I have areas that > are little  > hills where the gravel is about seven inches too. > > The plants are doing well, so I am hoping I am making at > least a few  > good decisions... > > Lainey > http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com > > On Oct 15, 2009, at 1:51 PM, Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > > > Ray, > > > > What about the fact that she has a 37G TALL (30" tall) > tank? I'm  > > not sure > > standard fluorescent lighting will even reach down to > plants on the  > > bottom > > of this tank (since I've never had a tank this > deep)... at least  > > not at the > > light strength and spectrum needed for good plant > growth. This  > > could also > > be why the algae is taking over since it's in the > water column and  > > therefore > > able to be closer to the lighting. I believe one would > need more  > > advanced > > halogen or LED lighting that would be beam-type > lighting to pierce  > > down to > > the bottom in a deeper tank. I do not think normal > fluorescent, and > > possibly even CFL's with the diffuser coating on the > bulbs would  > > allow for a > > light that would pierce down that deep.. unless it was > really a LOT of > > wattage. > > > > Certainly the hornwort or anacharis type fast growing, > stalk plants  > > that can > > just be left floating would help to outcompete the > algae and also take > > advantage of the lighting and extra CO2 from the > surface air. > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > > (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are > listed on the  > > right > > side, alphabetically under Labels and also under > Archives by Year,  > > Month) > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com  > > > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] > On > > Behalf Of sevenspringss@... > > Sent: Thursday, October 15, 2009 12:05 PM > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: Green water continued > > > > Lainey, With following this thread now for some time, > and seeing that > > others have given you good advice on how to control > this suspended  > > algae, if > > in fact thats what you have (which still seems to be > in question at  > > this > > tim), I thought I'd jump in here as you don't seem to > be having much > > success. > > Know though, that if it is suspended algae, it will > not be going away > > overnight > > -- or or two or three nights. > > > > Looking back to Monday (at 8:38 PM), you said the > water was very  > > green and > > getting greener, and that you could clearly see that > your tank was  > > getting > > an algae bloom -- yet at 11:51 PM that same evening > you said you  > > put some > > water in a white bowl (which I believe turned out to > be a green  > > bowl later), > > and that you couldn't tell if the water was green or > yellow --  > > seemingly > > having doubts that you had an algae problem. At this > point, I don't  > > know if > > this has yet been established, although it does appear > to me that's  > > what you > > have. > > > > As Lenny pointed out, normal/average tank illumination > should be in  > > between > > 8 and 9 hours, unless you know the balance of your > tank will not  > > permit an > > algae growth beyond that. While you stated that, 12 > hours per day  > > was what > > you were told, as for the light requirements of your > plants, I  > > haven't seen > > you mention what kind of plants you have -- or how > densely you have  > > your > > tank planted with them. Please tell us what plants you > have and how  > > many of > > them. Even plants requiring more light need to first > get  > > established in > > order to take advantage of the amount of light you've > been giving  > > them. > > > > Cutting down on the light completely will not > eliminate the  > > problem, at > > least not in a safe way, and if it did, the problem > will only  > > return once > > you keep the lights on again. Amber's algae problem > seemed to go away > > gradually > > -- but each tank is different -- and not everybody's > suspended  > > algae goes > > away spontaneously or by itself over time. The best > and most  > > recognized way > > to eliminate any algae is to have a sufficient amount > of growing > > (established and rooted) plants that will out-compete > the algae for  > > food -- > > and this method almost always works provided there is > a sufficient  > > amount of > > plants to begin with (which I'm now tending to doubt), > and  > > providing the > > suspended algae has not been allowed to reach the > point where it's  > > cutting > > out the light needed by the plants. > > > > Doing partial water changes may only feed and > stimulate the algae,  > > depending > > on any amounts of plant nutrients that may be found in > your water  > > supply. > > This would lead to an even thicker algae bloom. > Turning off the lights > > completely often can lead to a sudden crash of this > algae population, > > killing most of it all at once, wherein an even larger > bacterial  > > bloom will > > take over > > -- feeding on all the dead algae -- and consuming most > of the  > > oxygen leading > > to a fish die-off. Clearing this up with partial water > changes to  > > save the > > balance of your fish will ensure the re-growth of new > suspended  > > algae as > > they will now feed on these nutrients with little to > compete with  > > them. > > Shutting down the lights will be detrimental to your > plants. You  > > need to > > get more plants and -- for now -- until you get the > algae under  > > control -- > > have the lights on for no more than 8 (9 at the very > maximum) hours  > > per day. > > The main thing is that you need more live plants. > > > > Under normal circumstances, the nitrogen cycle will > see at least some > > production of nitrate if it is working properly -- > which you should  > > detect > > when testing for it. That you are not getting a > reading for nitrate > > indicates it is being used (by the algae) as fast as > it's being  > > produced. > > Since you cut back on the feeding, and are keeping the > nitrate  > > production at > > a minimum, there is nothing further you can do besides > starve it  > > out. While > > we still need to know what plants and the amount of > them that you  > > have, I'd > > advise you add plants right now that are known > plant-nutrient  > > gobblers, even > > though you may not necessarily have planned on them. > Get yourself  > > several > > bunches of Hornwort, and treat it as though it's just > a temporary  > > measure in > > getting rid of this algae. In the meantime, as the > algae clears, start > > adding more of the higher-light plants you said you > already had  > > some of, if > > this is what you prefer, and at the time they all > become well  > > established > > trade or give the Hornwort back to your LFS, unless > you prefer to  > > keep it. > > It still remains how high the light requirements > really are for your > > existing plants, which is another thing I must > question, as we  > > don't know > > what plants you have. Ray > > > > > > P.S.: An ultra-violet filter will kill off this algae, > which would  > > then be > > needed to be cleaned up from the gravel as it falls > dead, but this  > > will not > > address the main issues. You need to get a good > population of live  > > plants > > going, preferably cutting down on the light duration > if they permit it > > (depending on what plants you have), and more plants > will permit a  > > longer > > duration, although it (additional lighting duration) > should not be  > > required. > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > ------------------------------------ > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when > replying, Thank You. > ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> > ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> > PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is > NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of > the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new > subject (was re: old subject)" <- > <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. > , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. > > If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of > unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by > clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the home page.  > > Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com > to receive the digest, which includes up to 25 posts at a > time in a single email > > Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com > for the No E-Mail option where you will still be able to > read messages on the group and post replies. > > Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com > to receive individual e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links > > >     mailto:AquaticLife-fullfeatured@yahoogroups.com > > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 43840	From: sevenspringss@wmconnect.com	Date: 10/15/2009
Subject: Re: Green water continued

Lainey, Thanks for the description of your plant types. I see nothing there, except for perhaps the red Myriophyllum and the purple Cabomba, that needs 12 hours of light. If you got that recommendation from your LFS (local fish store) also, saying your plants need this much light, then by now you should realize that you're not receiving the best of advice. While I still don't know how tall the bunch plants are -- and I assume that are BUNCH plants, not just a strand or two as is your Hornwort -- the rest of your plants don't seem to be that tall when I read "small-type Swords" and "Micro-Swords" (which don't come as bunches, BTW). You'll need either better lighting to penetrate to 30" depth, or more patience in allowing more time for the plants to take root properly and start growing fuller (& higher) -- but not by longer lighting durations. Your purple Cabomba may not thrive without stronger lighting though, but other than that I would not get rid of any. If anything, I'd suggest adding to this as you don't have too many plants here and could use more. Since you do have some Hornwort already as a plant of your choice, I'd advise you to get a couple of bunches more and just allow it to float; it doesn't have any kind of advanced root system anyway, and doesn't need to be planted. As I said, I do hope your Myriophyllum and Cabomba are in bunches (of at least 9 or 10 strands). They should not be kept in a tight bunch though, as they need light and water circulation the whole length of their strand, right down to the gravel. Each strand should be planted individually about 1/2" apart. I'm sure additional Hornwort will take care of your problem, along with somewhat decreased lighting. Don't be afraid to even get 3 bunches of Hornwort -- the more you have (up to a point), the better it will be able to out-compete the algae. As your algae dies off, you can try increasing your lighting duration by small amounts if it appears the plants on the bottom need it -- but keep an eye on any increase of this green water being ready to cut back on the light if needed. With a good amount of Hornwort in there though, that should keep things in check. Since your water as so deep, it would be a good idea to keep the Hornwort in there at all times, rather than trading it back to the store as I first mentioned. It will keep things better balanced and allow for a bit more lighting time, which your other plants may need. After getting rid of the algae, see if you can tie the Hornwort off to the sides and back somehow, rather than having them floating directly over the other plants, blocking their light. Ray [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 43841	From: Lainey Alexander	Date: 10/15/2009
Subject: Re: Green water continued

Thanks, Ray, this makes me feel better. I actually went to buy more hornwort yesterday, got distracted by some other plants, totally forgot the hornwort, now have to go back. But I did pick up a lily that I'm excited about:) I am very happy to hear that the hornwort is as effective as I have read it to be. This is why I had it in there to begin with, and it seems like it was working. Now I have some in my quarantine and it seems to be keeping the water very clear in there. Plus, I really like it! And yes, the bunch plants came as bunches and I have them planted as you specify. As I mentioned, I raised the floor with gravel so that now the tank is about 24 inches to the bottom and the plants are closer to the sun as it were. I should be in good shape as soon as I get a bit more hornwort... Thanks to everyone for all this help! Lainey http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com On Oct 15, 2009, at 4:17 PM, sevenspringss@... wrote: > Lainey, Thanks for the description of your plant types. I see nothing > there, except for perhaps the red Myriophyllum and the purple > Cabomba, that > needs 12 hours of light. If you got that recommendation from your > LFS (local > fish store) also, saying your plants need this much light, then by > now you > should realize that you're not receiving the best of advice. While > I still > don't know how tall the bunch plants are -- and I assume that are > BUNCH > plants, not just a strand or two as is your Hornwort -- the rest of > your plants > don't seem to be that tall when I read "small-type Swords" and > "Micro-Swords" > (which don't come as bunches, BTW). You'll need either better > lighting to > penetrate to 30" depth, or more patience in allowing more time for > the plants > to take root properly and start growing fuller (& higher) -- but > not by > longer lighting durations. > > Your purple Cabomba may not thrive without stronger lighting > though, but > other than that I would not get rid of any. If anything, I'd > suggest adding > to this as you don't have too many plants here and could use more. > Since you > do have some Hornwort already as a plant of your choice, I'd advise > you to > get a couple of bunches more and just allow it to float; it doesn't > have any > kind of advanced root system anyway, and doesn't need to be planted. > > As I said, I do hope your Myriophyllum and Cabomba are in bunches > (of at > least 9 or 10 strands). They should not be kept in a tight bunch > though, as > they need light and water circulation the whole length of their > strand, right > down to the gravel. Each strand should be planted individually > about 1/2" > apart. I'm sure additional Hornwort will take care of your problem, > along > with somewhat decreased lighting. Don't be afraid to even get 3 > bunches of > Hornwort -- the more you have (up to a point), the better it will > be able to > out-compete the algae. As your algae dies off, you can try > increasing your > lighting duration by small amounts if it appears the plants on the > bottom > need it -- but keep an eye on any increase of this green water > being ready to > cut back on the light if needed. With a good amount of Hornwort in > there > though, that should keep things in check. > > Since your water as so deep, it would be a good idea to keep the > Hornwort > in there at all times, rather than trading it back to the store as > I first > mentioned. It will keep things better balanced and allow for a bit > more > lighting time, which your other plants may need. After getting rid > of the algae, > see if you can tie the Hornwort off to the sides and back somehow, > rather > than having them floating directly over the other plants, blocking > their > light. Ray > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 43842	From: gailsugarpants	Date: 10/15/2009
Subject: Re: That'll Teach Him!

I think I would freak out if my husband did that to any of my fishes, however mine are a lot bigger than a betta. I am glad that it counted as animal abuse - even tho it was just a small Betta --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, Donna Ransome <djransome@...> wrote: > > http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/33300456/ns/us_news-weird_news/?gt1=43001 > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 43843	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 10/15/2009
Subject: Re: Green water continued

I think you're coming to the realization that YOU need to check out and verify everything that any one person tells you... including me... but especially people that have a financial interest in getting you to listen to them. There certainly are a LOT of good and knowledgeable fish store employees out there but there seems to be a growing number who might be good at running their fish stores but not good at the long term success in keeping fish. Way too many chemicals are being pushed on people nowadays as well as BIG Tank busting fish that should not even be available to most people. There's a HUGE difference between keeping a shipment of new juvenile fish alive long enough to sell them, a few days to a week or two, compared to keeping that same fish alive and providing a proper sized and adequately maintained tank for 5, 10, 20 or more years (goldfish should live for 20+ years as well as many other fish living for 10-20 years or more). The fish stores *expect* to have a certain percentage of their fish die and they've built this *loss* into their pricing. Once we buy them, our goal is to NOT have any of our fish die except from of old age so we have to do things a LOT DIFFERENT than the fish retailer. Now, breeders are a different sort since they have to keep their fish live and properly homed to get their fist to breed and hatch the eggs and grow out the fry until they are large enough to sell and then start the cycle over again... so if you are buying from a private breeder, then you are more likely to get reliable advice from that sort of fish keeper... but someone that just imports and sells them... not so reliable, IMO. While AZ Aquatics has a very nice website and even has some good info on their site, over the past several years, I've heard more bad than good from them. At one time, they had a very bad rating with the BBBOnline due to ripping people off with undisclosed shipping charges but then I heard a few good reports on them but it seems that they might be resorting to ripping people off again. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Lainey Alexander Sent: Thursday, October 15, 2009 1:26 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: Green water continued I'm embarrassed to admit this, but the guy at Arizona Aquatics talked me into the six, and then the idea was that some of them never get to be the full size, supposedly many of them stay fairly small. I realize now that all of this is completely bad information, but I'm stuck with it. As soon as I realized what had happened I decided to return them to a LFS, but the problem is, I really like them! But yes, I know they will have to be rehomed, at least most of them. They are doing an amazing job on hair algae and other types of algae on the plants, and with my dwarf puffer I can't have snails or probably shrimp either, so I am getting attached to the SAEs. I don't like plecos... Lainey http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com On Oct 15, 2009, at 2:01 PM, Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > Including the six SAE's.... probably around 100G. A 65G with a 48" > x 18" > footprint, which is what I have for my two fancy goldfish and a 3" > clown > pleco, would possibly work for you but you might have to do twice > weekly 25% PWC's which would then, at least, mimic the 65G being a > larger tank as far as water volume goes. And the 48" x 18" footprint > gives a lot more surface area for adequate gas exchange and also gives > more square footage on the bottom and other layers so the fish do not > feel cramped. > > What possessed you to get six SAE's and did you know how big they > would get? > Most people only get one or two for algae eating purposes. While they > do best in schools, they can be kept individually. Did your fish store > talk you into six of them? > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles > referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically > under Labels and also under Archives by Year, > Month) > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Lainey Alexander > Sent: Thursday, October 15, 2009 12:03 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: Green water continued > > If I want to keep my current flock:) what would be the appropriate > gallon size and tank size for them? 65g with a bigger footprint? > > Thank you, > > Lainey > http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com > > On Oct 15, 2009, at 12:56 PM, Amber Berglund wrote: > > > She said she didn't know which they were I thought, or I may be > > getting my threads mixed, so I didn't want to say 6 inches when I > > wasn't sure what type of algae eaters they were, I just > remembered her > > having them. > > I knew they'd grow over 3-4 inches at least though, so I stayed with > > the safe guess ;) LOL. > > I did notice that the tank was quite a bit crowded though and was > > trying to point out that the algae eaters should be the first to go > > since they are the largest fish she has. > > > > Amber > > > > Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > > > > > > > > > Actually, the six SAE's should grow to around 6" each > > > http://www.thekrib.com/Fish/Algae-Eaters/. > > > <http://www.thekrib.com/Fish/Algae-Eaters/.> > > > > > > Since a maximum of 6" torpedo shaped fish should have at least 2 > > > gallons per expected adult sized inch > > > http://goldlenny.blogspot.com/2007/02/new-rules-guidelines-to- > > replace-1-per. > > > <http://goldlenny.blogspot.com/2007/02/new-rules-guidelines-to- > > replace-1-per.> > > > html, these six fish should have at least 12G PER FISH, meaning > 72G > > > just for the six SAE's. Further, a 6" fish should be kept in an > > > aquarium > > that is at > > > least 36" to 48" long. > > > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http:// > > GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on > > the right > > > side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by > > Year, Month) > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On Behalf Of Amber > Berglund > > > Sent: Thursday, October 15, 2009 10:55 AM > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife% > > 40yahoogroups.com> > > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: Green water continued > > > > > > Also it doesn't matter how young the fish are, they should > still be > > > calculated by their full growth at adult size. Your tank is > > actually very > > > overcrowded mostly from your 6 algae eaters that will grow to be > > over > > > several inches long. > > > You can get away with over stocking a tank but you have to clean > > it a lot > > > more often than you have been otherwise the water gets very gross > > very > > > fast, > > > and the suspended algae is what is saving you right now, > > otherwise you > > > could > > > have some excess amonia or nitrate or something similar that > > kills all > > > your > > > fish. So don't dislike the green water too much, it's keeping > > your fish > > > alive until you can sort out what's going on in your tank. > > > > > > Amber > > > > > > Lainey Alexander wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > All of my fish are very young and none of them is larger than > > about > > > > two inches, but most are only 1 to 1.5 inches. As soon as the > > SAEs get > > > > to be four inches I will have to get a bigger tank or else > > trade them > > > > in. Same for the rams if they get too much bigger. I am trying > > to be > > > > very careful not to overcrowd, so while I have largish numbers, > > I have > > > > to say sometimes I only see about seven fish at a time because > > > > everyone is so small and they remain hidden much of the time. > > With my > > > > nitrate levels at zero I'm not sure I can be too high on my > > bioload? > > > > > > > > Lainey > > > > http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com <http:// > > www.grasslandsgouldians.com> > > > > <http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com > > > <http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com>> > > > > > > > > On Oct 14, 2009, at 2:56 PM, gailsugarpants wrote: > > > > > > > > > Lainey > > > > > Wow, you have 34 fish for a 37 gallon tank. That is a high > > ratio. > > > > > How big are the SAEs? I see that they get up to 6" and that is > > > > > pretty big. They could possibly be the heaviest part of your > > bioload. > > > > > > > > > > Can you tell us how often you do maintenance on your tank? Do > > you do > > > > > weekly water changes and vaccum your gravel? Also, how you > > maintain > > > > > your filtration system? That info can be helpful too. > > > > > > > > > > Thanks, > > > > > Gail > > > > > > > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>, Lainey Alexander > > > > > <lainealex@...> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > Hi Gail - > > > > > > > > > > > > I just posted my tank measurements, it's 37g and for fish > > it's: > > > > > > > > > > > > 7 RN tetras > > > > > > 13 celestial pearl danios (one inch) > > > > > > 5 cory catfish > > > > > > 2 blue rams > > > > > > 6 siamese algae eaters > > > > > > 1 dwarf puffer (very gentle) > > > > > > > > > > > > It doesn't look too crowded to me, and I am not planning any > > > > > > additions, but I know the SAEs may outgrow the tank... > > > > > > > > > > > > Lainey > > > > > > http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com > > > <http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com> > > > > <http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com > > > <http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com>>

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 43844	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 10/15/2009
Subject: Re: Green water continued

You are going to have to be very diligent and careful with your tank having such a deep substrate. I think you would have been better off using pots or shelving of some sort. All of that gravel is going to hold A LOT of detritus and with your already heavy bioload, as that detritus starts to decay, you could face very rough water quality issues in the future. You may have to get a Python Water Change System in order to siphon vacuum the gravel. I'm not sure a normal gravel siphon would be able to suck up detritus from that deep of gravel. Of course, you would only be deep vacuuming the gravel away from the rooted plants. Further, that deep of a gravel bed, even with plants, might still develop anaerobic bacteria pockets so you'll have to be on the look out for that in the future as well. Give your tank the old smell test on a regular basis in the future and if the water ever smells like anything other than fresh dirt, earthy smell, then you could be developing problems. I do not know of anyone that has that much gravel in their tank or ever even tried it. You might have been better off just lowering the water level a few inches, instead of raising the gravel level that high. This is probably one of those instances where asking out here first would have been a good thing to do. Most planted tanks only have 2" to 3" and non-planted tanks do not need more than a 1/2" to an inch.. just enough to hide the fish poop in between gravel vacuuming ever week. Bare bottomed tanks are OK for breeding and hospital/quarantine tanks but fish poop laying all over the bottom of a bare bottomed tank isn't very attractive when company comes over. Natural colored pea gravel does the best job at hiding the poop in between vacuuming. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Lainey Alexander Sent: Thursday, October 15, 2009 1:34 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: Green water continued Ray and Lenny - I am slowly figuring out what happened to cause the green water, which I did have confirmed as what I have by two LFS. I wanted to raise the floor of the tank for the obvious reasons mentioned re light reaching the bottom, so I added about three inches of gravel, and the gravel contained a bunch of instant cycle type bacteria plus fertilizer. That was one thing that seemed to lead to the algae bloom. The other thing I did was I pulled out my hornwort and placed it into my quarantine tank where I wanted to use it to hide my ugly filter equipment in there. I think that was the one-two punch that led to the green water. I have now put the hornwort back into the green water tank and I am pretty happy with the substrate because it has raised up the floor quite a bit - about five or six inches. I have areas that are little hills where the gravel is about seven inches too. The plants are doing well, so I am hoping I am making at least a few good decisions... Lainey http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com On Oct 15, 2009, at 1:51 PM, Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > Ray, > > What about the fact that she has a 37G TALL (30" tall) tank? I'm not > sure standard fluorescent lighting will even reach down to plants on > the bottom of this tank (since I've never had a tank this deep)... at > least not at the light strength and spectrum needed for good plant > growth. This could also be why the algae is taking over since it's in > the water column and therefore able to be closer to the lighting. I > believe one would need more advanced halogen or LED lighting that > would be beam-type lighting to pierce down to the bottom in a deeper > tank. I do not think normal fluorescent, and possibly even CFL's with > the diffuser coating on the bulbs would allow for a light that would > pierce down that deep.. unless it was really a LOT of wattage. > > Certainly the hornwort or anacharis type fast growing, stalk plants > that can just be left floating would help to outcompete the algae and > also take advantage of the lighting and extra CO2 from the surface > air. > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles > referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically > under Labels and also under Archives by Year, > Month) > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of > sevenspringss@... > Sent: Thursday, October 15, 2009 12:05 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: Green water continued > > Lainey, With following this thread now for some time, and seeing that > others have given you good advice on how to control this suspended > algae, if in fact thats what you have (which still seems to be in > question at this tim), I thought I'd jump in here as you don't seem to > be having much success. > Know though, that if it is suspended algae, it will not be going away > overnight > -- or or two or three nights. > > Looking back to Monday (at 8:38 PM), you said the water was very green > and getting greener, and that you could clearly see that your tank was > getting an algae bloom -- yet at 11:51 PM that same evening you said > you put some water in a white bowl (which I believe turned out to be a > green bowl later), and that you couldn't tell if the water was green > or yellow -- seemingly having doubts that you had an algae problem. At > this point, I don't know if this has yet been established, although it > does appear to me that's what you have. > > As Lenny pointed out, normal/average tank illumination should be in > between > 8 and 9 hours, unless you know the balance of your tank will not > permit an algae growth beyond that. While you stated that, 12 hours > per day was what you were told, as for the light requirements of your > plants, I haven't seen you mention what kind of plants you have -- or > how densely you have your tank planted with them. Please tell us what > plants you have and how many of them. Even plants requiring more light > need to first get established in order to take advantage of the amount > of light you've been giving them. > > Cutting down on the light completely will not eliminate the problem, > at least not in a safe way, and if it did, the problem will only > return once you keep the lights on again. Amber's algae problem seemed > to go away gradually > -- but each tank is different -- and not everybody's suspended algae > goes away spontaneously or by itself over time. The best and most > recognized way to eliminate any algae is to have a sufficient amount > of growing (established and rooted) plants that will out-compete the > algae for food -- and this method almost always works provided there > is a sufficient amount of plants to begin with (which I'm now tending > to doubt), and providing the suspended algae has not been allowed to > reach the point where it's cutting out the light needed by the plants. > > Doing partial water changes may only feed and stimulate the algae, > depending on any amounts of plant nutrients that may be found in your > water supply. > This would lead to an even thicker algae bloom. Turning off the lights > completely often can lead to a sudden crash of this algae population, > killing most of it all at once, wherein an even larger bacterial bloom > will take over > -- feeding on all the dead algae -- and consuming most of the oxygen > leading to a fish die-off. Clearing this up with partial water changes > to save the balance of your fish will ensure the re-growth of new > suspended algae as they will now feed on these nutrients with little > to compete with them. > Shutting down the lights will be detrimental to your plants. You need > to get more plants and -- for now -- until you get the algae under > control -- have the lights on for no more than 8 (9 at the very > maximum) hours per day. > The main thing is that you need more live plants. > > Under normal circumstances, the nitrogen cycle will see at least some > production of nitrate if it is working properly -- which you should > detect when testing for it. That you are not getting a reading for > nitrate indicates it is being used (by the algae) as fast as it's > being produced. > Since you cut back on the feeding, and are keeping the nitrate > production at a minimum, there is nothing further you can do besides > starve it out. While we still need to know what plants and the amount > of them that you have, I'd advise you add plants right now that are > known plant-nutrient gobblers, even though you may not necessarily > have planned on them. Get yourself several bunches of Hornwort, and > treat it as though it's just a temporary measure in getting rid of > this algae. In the meantime, as the algae clears, start adding more of > the higher-light plants you said you already had some of, if this is > what you prefer, and at the time they all become well established > trade or give the Hornwort back to your LFS, unless you prefer to keep > it. > It still remains how high the light requirements really are for your > existing plants, which is another thing I must question, as we don't > know what plants you have. Ray > > > P.S.: An ultra-violet filter will kill off this algae, which would > then be needed to be cleaned up from the gravel as it falls dead, but > this will not address the main issues. You need to get a good > population of live plants going, preferably cutting down on the light > duration if they permit it (depending on what plants you have), and > more plants will permit a longer duration, although it (additional > lighting duration) should not be required.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 43845	From: Lainey Alexander	Date: 10/15/2009
Subject: Re: Green water continued

OK, I can remove some of the gravel before the plants get well established, they are still not fully established. I hear you on this...better to lose a few plants than develop anaerobic plumes later on. Lainey http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com On Oct 15, 2009, at 5:55 PM, Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > You are going to have to be very diligent and careful with your > tank having > such a deep substrate. I think you would have been better off using > pots or > shelving of some sort. All of that gravel is going to hold A LOT of > detritus and with your already heavy bioload, as that detritus > starts to > decay, you could face very rough water quality issues in the > future. You > may have to get a Python Water Change System in order to siphon > vacuum the > gravel. I'm not sure a normal gravel siphon would be able to suck up > detritus from that deep of gravel. Of course, you would only be deep > vacuuming the gravel away from the rooted plants. Further, that > deep of a > gravel bed, even with plants, might still develop anaerobic > bacteria pockets > so you'll have to be on the look out for that in the future as > well. Give > your tank the old smell test on a regular basis in the future and > if the > water ever smells like anything other than fresh dirt, earthy > smell, then > you could be developing problems. > > I do not know of anyone that has that much gravel in their tank or > ever even > tried it. You might have been better off just lowering the water > level a > few inches, instead of raising the gravel level that high. This is > probably > one of those instances where asking out here first would have been > a good > thing to do. > > Most planted tanks only have 2" to 3" and non-planted tanks do not > need more > than a 1/2" to an inch.. just enough to hide the fish poop in > between gravel > vacuuming ever week. Bare bottomed tanks are OK for breeding and > hospital/quarantine tanks but fish poop laying all over the bottom > of a bare > bottomed tank isn't very attractive when company comes over. Natural > colored pea gravel does the best job at hiding the poop in between > vacuuming. > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the > right > side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, > Month) > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On > Behalf Of Lainey Alexander > Sent: Thursday, October 15, 2009 1:34 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: Green water continued > > Ray and Lenny - > > I am slowly figuring out what happened to cause the green water, > which I did > have confirmed as what I have by two LFS. > > I wanted to raise the floor of the tank for the obvious reasons > mentioned re > light reaching the bottom, so I added about three inches of gravel, > and the > gravel contained a bunch of instant cycle type bacteria plus > fertilizer. > That was one thing that seemed to lead to the algae bloom. The > other thing I > did was I pulled out my hornwort and placed it into my quarantine > tank where > I wanted to use it to hide my ugly filter equipment in there. > > I think that was the one-two punch that led to the green water. I > have now > put the hornwort back into the green water tank and I am pretty > happy with > the substrate because it has raised up the floor quite a bit - > about five or > six inches. I have areas that are little hills where the gravel is > about > seven inches too. > > The plants are doing well, so I am hoping I am making at least a > few good > decisions... > > Lainey > http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com > > On Oct 15, 2009, at 1:51 PM, Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > > > Ray, > > > > What about the fact that she has a 37G TALL (30" tall) tank? I'm not > > sure standard fluorescent lighting will even reach down to plants on > > the bottom of this tank (since I've never had a tank this > deep)... at > > least not at the light strength and spectrum needed for good plant > > growth. This could also be why the algae is taking over since > it's in > > the water column and therefore able to be closer to the lighting. I > > believe one would need more advanced halogen or LED lighting that > > would be beam-type lighting to pierce down to the bottom in a deeper > > tank. I do not think normal fluorescent, and possibly even CFL's > with > > the diffuser coating on the bulbs would allow for a light that would > > pierce down that deep.. unless it was really a LOT of wattage. > > > > Certainly the hornwort or anacharis type fast growing, stalk plants > > that can just be left floating would help to outcompete the algae > and > > also take advantage of the lighting and extra CO2 from the surface > > air. > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles > > referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, > alphabetically > > under Labels and also under Archives by Year, > > Month) > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of > > sevenspringss@... > > Sent: Thursday, October 15, 2009 12:05 PM > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: Green water continued > > > > Lainey, With following this thread now for some time, and seeing > that > > others have given you good advice on how to control this suspended > > algae, if in fact thats what you have (which still seems to be in > > question at this tim), I thought I'd jump in here as you don't > seem to > > be having much success. > > Know though, that if it is suspended algae, it will not be going > away > > overnight > > -- or or two or three nights. > > > > Looking back to Monday (at 8:38 PM), you said the water was very > green > > and getting greener, and that you could clearly see that your > tank was > > getting an algae bloom -- yet at 11:51 PM that same evening you said > > you put some water in a white bowl (which I believe turned out to > be a > > green bowl later), and that you couldn't tell if the water was green > > or yellow -- seemingly having doubts that you had an algae > problem. At > > this point, I don't know if this has yet been established, > although it > > does appear to me that's what you have. > > > > As Lenny pointed out, normal/average tank illumination should be in > > between > > 8 and 9 hours, unless you know the balance of your tank will not > > permit an algae growth beyond that. While you stated that, 12 hours > > per day was what you were told, as for the light requirements of > your > > plants, I haven't seen you mention what kind of plants you have > -- or > > how densely you have your tank planted with them. Please tell us > what > > plants you have and how many of them. Even plants requiring more > light > > need to first get established in order to take advantage of the > amount > > of light you've been giving them. > > > > Cutting down on the light completely will not eliminate the problem, > > at least not in a safe way, and if it did, the problem will only > > return once you keep the lights on again. Amber's algae problem > seemed > > to go away gradually > > -- but each tank is different -- and not everybody's suspended algae > > goes away spontaneously or by itself over time. The best and most > > recognized way to eliminate any algae is to have a sufficient amount > > of growing (established and rooted) plants that will out-compete the > > algae for food -- and this method almost always works provided there > > is a sufficient amount of plants to begin with (which I'm now > tending > > to doubt), and providing the suspended algae has not been allowed to > > reach the point where it's cutting out the light needed by the > plants. > > > > Doing partial water changes may only feed and stimulate the algae, > > depending on any amounts of plant nutrients that may be found in > your > > water supply. > > This would lead to an even thicker algae bloom. Turning off the > lights > > completely often can lead to a sudden crash of this algae > population, > > killing most of it all at once, wherein an even larger bacterial > bloom > > will take over > > -- feeding on all the dead algae -- and consuming most of the oxygen > > leading to a fish die-off. Clearing this up with partial water > changes > > to save the balance of your fish will ensure the re-growth of new > > suspended algae as they will now feed on these nutrients with little > > to compete with them. > > Shutting down the lights will be detrimental to your plants. You > need > > to get more plants and -- for now -- until you get the algae under > > control -- have the lights on for no more than 8 (9 at the very > > maximum) hours per day. > > The main thing is that you need more live plants. > > > > Under normal circumstances, the nitrogen cycle will see at least > some > > production of nitrate if it is working properly -- which you should > > detect when testing for it. That you are not getting a reading for > > nitrate indicates it is being used (by the algae) as fast as it's > > being produced. > > Since you cut back on the feeding, and are keeping the nitrate > > production at a minimum, there is nothing further you can do besides > > starve it out. While we still need to know what plants and the > amount > > of them that you have, I'd advise you add plants right now that are > > known plant-nutrient gobblers, even though you may not necessarily > > have planned on them. Get yourself several bunches of Hornwort, and > > treat it as though it's just a temporary measure in getting rid of > > this algae. In the meantime, as the algae clears, start adding > more of > > the higher-light plants you said you already had some of, if this is > > what you prefer, and at the time they all become well established > > trade or give the Hornwort back to your LFS, unless you prefer to > keep > > it. > > It still remains how high the light requirements really are for your > > existing plants, which is another thing I must question, as we don't > > know what plants you have. Ray > > > > > > P.S.: An ultra-violet filter will kill off this algae, which would > > then be needed to be cleaned up from the gravel as it falls dead, > but > > this will not address the main issues. You need to get a good > > population of live plants going, preferably cutting down on the > light > > duration if they permit it (depending on what plants you have), and > > more plants will permit a longer duration, although it (additional > > lighting duration) should not be required. > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 43846	From: Lainey Alexander	Date: 10/15/2009
Subject: Re: Green water continued

I have never badmouthed a business online before but AZ Aquatics really needs to change their ways. Over the past two months, half of everything I bought from them died and I spent over $250 which they assured me they would refund and never did. Also, they aggressively convinced me to buy a whole bunch of things I didn't really think I needed - and half of all that died. Also, they ignored an email request to cancel my final order and sent it anyways - this was a shipment of Galaxy Rasboras (celestial pearl danios) that went into emergency quarantine (as soon as I saw that they ignored my request to cancel and instead just went ahead and sent the fish, I went out and bought an entire tank set up for a quarantine which was just as well since the fish were riddled with ammonia poisoning and dying when they got here). I could go on and on and on about dealing with them, it was horrific. I feel pretty sure they sent some stuff that had to have been dead when sent because of how decomposed it was after overnight shipping - I mean plants that were completely slimy and broken into tiny fragments, smelly snails etc etc etc. It was a disaster. Caveat emptor. Lainey http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com On Oct 15, 2009, at 5:55 PM, Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > I think you're coming to the realization that YOU need to check out > and > verify everything that any one person tells you... including me... but > especially people that have a financial interest in getting you to > listen to > them. There certainly are a LOT of good and knowledgeable fish store > employees out there but there seems to be a growing number who > might be good > at running their fish stores but not good at the long term success in > keeping fish. Way too many chemicals are being pushed on people > nowadays as > well as BIG Tank busting fish that should not even be available to > most > people. > > There's a HUGE difference between keeping a shipment of new > juvenile fish > alive long enough to sell them, a few days to a week or two, > compared to > keeping that same fish alive and providing a proper sized and > adequately > maintained tank for 5, 10, 20 or more years (goldfish should live > for 20+ > years as well as many other fish living for 10-20 years or more). > The fish > stores *expect* to have a certain percentage of their fish die and > they've > built this *loss* into their pricing. Once we buy them, our goal is > to NOT > have any of our fish die except from of old age so we have to do > things a > LOT DIFFERENT than the fish retailer. Now, breeders are a different > sort > since they have to keep their fish live and properly homed to get > their fist > to breed and hatch the eggs and grow out the fry until they are > large enough > to sell and then start the cycle over again... so if you are buying > from a > private breeder, then you are more likely to get reliable advice > from that > sort of fish keeper... but someone that just imports and sells > them... not > so reliable, IMO. > > While AZ Aquatics has a very nice website and even has some good > info on > their site, over the past several years, I've heard more bad than > good from > them. At one time, they had a very bad rating with the BBBOnline > due to > ripping people off with undisclosed shipping charges but then I > heard a few > good reports on them but it seems that they might be resorting to > ripping > people off again. > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the > right > side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, > Month) > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On > Behalf Of Lainey Alexander > Sent: Thursday, October 15, 2009 1:26 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: Green water continued > > I'm embarrassed to admit this, but the guy at Arizona Aquatics > talked me > into the six, and then the idea was that some of them never get to > be the > full size, supposedly many of them stay fairly small. I realize now > that all > of this is completely bad information, but I'm stuck with it. As > soon as I > realized what had happened I decided to return them to a LFS, but the > problem is, I really like them! > > But yes, I know they will have to be rehomed, at least most of them. > They are doing an amazing job on hair algae and other types of > algae on the > plants, and with my dwarf puffer I can't have snails or probably > shrimp > either, so I am getting attached to the SAEs. I don't like plecos... > > Lainey > http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com > > On Oct 15, 2009, at 2:01 PM, Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > > > Including the six SAE's.... probably around 100G. A 65G with a 48" > > x 18" > > footprint, which is what I have for my two fancy goldfish and a 3" > > clown > > pleco, would possibly work for you but you might have to do twice > > weekly 25% PWC's which would then, at least, mimic the 65G being a > > larger tank as far as water volume goes. And the 48" x 18" footprint > > gives a lot more surface area for adequate gas exchange and also > gives > > more square footage on the bottom and other layers so the fish do > not > > feel cramped. > > > > What possessed you to get six SAE's and did you know how big they > > would get? > > Most people only get one or two for algae eating purposes. While > they > > do best in schools, they can be kept individually. Did your fish > store > > talk you into six of them? > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles > > referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, > alphabetically > > under Labels and also under Archives by Year, > > Month) > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Lainey Alexander > > Sent: Thursday, October 15, 2009 12:03 PM > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: Green water continued > > > > If I want to keep my current flock:) what would be the appropriate > > gallon size and tank size for them? 65g with a bigger footprint? > > > > Thank you, > > > > Lainey > > http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com > > > > On Oct 15, 2009, at 12:56 PM, Amber Berglund wrote: > > > > > She said she didn't know which they were I thought, or I may be > > > getting my threads mixed, so I didn't want to say 6 inches when I > > > wasn't sure what type of algae eaters they were, I just > > remembered her > > > having them. > > > I knew they'd grow over 3-4 inches at least though, so I stayed > with > > > the safe guess ;) LOL. > > > I did notice that the tank was quite a bit crowded though and was > > > trying to point out that the algae eaters should be the first > to go > > > since they are the largest fish she has. > > > > > > Amber > > > > > > Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > Actually, the six SAE's should grow to around 6" each > > > > http://www.thekrib.com/Fish/Algae-Eaters/. > > > > <http://www.thekrib.com/Fish/Algae-Eaters/.> > > > > > > > > Since a maximum of 6" torpedo shaped fish should have at least 2 > > > > gallons per expected adult sized inch > > > > http://goldlenny.blogspot.com/2007/02/new-rules-guidelines-to- > > > replace-1-per. > > > > <http://goldlenny.blogspot.com/2007/02/new-rules-guidelines-to- > > > replace-1-per.> > > > > html, these six fish should have at least 12G PER FISH, meaning > > 72G > > > > just for the six SAE's. Further, a 6" fish should be kept in an > > > > aquarium > > > that is at > > > > least 36" to 48" long. > > > > > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http:// > > > GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > > (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on > > > the right > > > > side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by > > > Year, Month) > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On Behalf Of Amber > > Berglund > > > > Sent: Thursday, October 15, 2009 10:55 AM > > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife% > > > 40yahoogroups.com> > > > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: Green water continued > > > > > > > > Also it doesn't matter how young the fish are, they should > > still be > > > > calculated by their full growth at adult size. Your tank is > > > actually very > > > > overcrowded mostly from your 6 algae eaters that will grow to be > > > over > > > > several inches long. > > > > You can get away with over stocking a tank but you have to clean > > > it a lot > > > > more often than you have been otherwise the water gets very > gross > > > very > > > > fast, > > > > and the suspended algae is what is saving you right now, > > > otherwise you > > > > could > > > > have some excess amonia or nitrate or something similar that > > > kills all > > > > your > > > > fish. So don't dislike the green water too much, it's keeping > > > your fish > > > > alive until you can sort out what's going on in your tank. > > > > > > > > Amber > > > > > > > > Lainey Alexander wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > All of my fish are very young and none of them is larger than > > > about > > > > > two inches, but most are only 1 to 1.5 inches. As soon as the > > > SAEs get > > > > > to be four inches I will have to get a bigger tank or else > > > trade them > > > > > in. Same for the rams if they get too much bigger. I am trying > > > to be > > > > > very careful not to overcrowd, so while I have largish > numbers, > > > I have > > > > > to say sometimes I only see about seven fish at a time because > > > > > everyone is so small and they remain hidden much of the time. > > > With my > > > > > nitrate levels at zero I'm not sure I can be too high on my > > > bioload? > > > > > > > > > > Lainey > > > > > http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com <http:// > > > www.grasslandsgouldians.com> > > > > > <http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com > > > > <http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com>> > > > > > > > > > > On Oct 14, 2009, at 2:56 PM, gailsugarpants wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > Lainey > > > > > > Wow, you have 34 fish for a 37 gallon tank. That is a high > > > ratio. > > > > > > How big are the SAEs? I see that they get up to 6" and > that is > > > > > > pretty big. They could possibly be the heaviest part of your > > > bioload. > > > > > > > > > > > > Can you tell us how often you do maintenance on your > tank? Do > > > you do > > > > > > weekly water changes and vaccum your gravel? Also, how you > > > maintain > > > > > > your filtration system? That info can be helpful too. > > > > > > > > > > > > Thanks, > > > > > > Gail > > > > > > > > > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>, Lainey Alexander > > > > > > <lainealex@...> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Hi Gail - > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I just posted my tank measurements, it's 37g and for fish > > > it's: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 7 RN tetras > > > > > > > 13 celestial pearl danios (one inch) > > > > > > > 5 cory catfish > > > > > > > 2 blue rams > > > > > > > 6 siamese algae eaters > > > > > > > 1 dwarf puffer (very gentle) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > It doesn't look too crowded to me, and I am not > planning any > > > > > > > additions, but I know the SAEs may outgrow the tank... > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Lainey > > > > > > > http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com > > > > <http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com> > > > > > <http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com > > > > <http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com>> > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 43847	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 10/15/2009
Subject: Re: Green water continued

The only thing I have to add about adding plants: Don't get duck weed unless you want it forever or want to tear your tank down and empty it out to get rid of it ;) LOL. I'm in a constant battle with my duckweed, have to remove cup fulls every few days or the whole top of the tank will be covered in duckweed, it doesn't matter how I move the filter intakes apparently it just doesn't push the water hard enough to dissuade the duckweed from growing. I do agree that you could use some more plants, and you don't want to buy more expensive harder to grow plants you can go with easy ones like Valsineria (which grow very well, I like the spiral ones myself). I also have some "dwarf" sagg, but I don't think they're really that dwarf like as they're half as tall as my 55 gallon ;) LOL. I also really like aponogeton (gosh I think I spelled that wrong, LOL), they come in bulbs sometimes with just a little sprout of greenery, and some of them get huge so make sure to read up on the varieties if you're going to get one. The crispus is pretty and not gigantic, madagascar lace likes to be in "cooler" water (under 80 at the warmest), it prefers around 75 degrees, and seems to like more water current rather than less. The one growing in my 55 gallon went dormant, hopefully it comes back. The one in my 125 gallon is growing very well, but that tank has A LOT of filters running on it to create a more "stream like" current. Oh the ulvacious aponogetton gets huge (think that's the one) it took over one entire side of my 55 gallon and is trying to out compete the duckweed and hornwort ;) LOL. Amber sevenspringss@... wrote: > > > Lainey, Thanks for the description of your plant types. I see nothing > there, except for perhaps the red Myriophyllum and the purple Cabomba, > that > needs 12 hours of light. If you got that recommendation from your LFS > (local > fish store) also, saying your plants need this much light, then by now > you > should realize that you're not receiving the best of advice. While I > still > don't know how tall the bunch plants are -- and I assume that are BUNCH > plants, not just a strand or two as is your Hornwort -- the rest of > your plants > don't seem to be that tall when I read "small-type Swords" and > "Micro-Swords" > (which don't come as bunches, BTW). You'll need either better lighting to > penetrate to 30" depth, or more patience in allowing more time for the > plants > to take root properly and start growing fuller (& higher) -- but not by > longer lighting durations. > > Your purple Cabomba may not thrive without stronger lighting though, but > other than that I would not get rid of any. If anything, I'd suggest > adding > to this as you don't have too many plants here and could use more. > Since you > do have some Hornwort already as a plant of your choice, I'd advise > you to > get a couple of bunches more and just allow it to float; it doesn't > have any > kind of advanced root system anyway, and doesn't need to be planted. > > As I said, I do hope your Myriophyllum and Cabomba are in bunches (of at > least 9 or 10 strands). They should not be kept in a tight bunch > though, as > they need light and water circulation the whole length of their > strand, right > down to the gravel. Each strand should be planted individually about 1/2" > apart. I'm sure additional Hornwort will take care of your problem, along > with somewhat decreased lighting. Don't be afraid to even get 3 > bunches of > Hornwort -- the more you have (up to a point), the better it will be > able to > out-compete the algae. As your algae dies off, you can try increasing > your > lighting duration by small amounts if it appears the plants on the bottom > need it -- but keep an eye on any increase of this green water being > ready to > cut back on the light if needed. With a good amount of Hornwort in there > though, that should keep things in check. > > Since your water as so deep, it would be a good idea to keep the Hornwort > in there at all times, rather than trading it back to the store as I > first > mentioned. It will keep things better balanced and allow for a bit more > lighting time, which your other plants may need. After getting rid of > the algae, > see if you can tie the Hornwort off to the sides and back somehow, rather > than having them floating directly over the other plants, blocking their > light. Ray > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 43848	From: bill 1433	Date: 10/15/2009
Subject: Re: Green water continued

Hi Lainey, While it is true that putting the bad mouth on a supplier is never good but sometimes necessary. Remember that this group covers some 2500 plus members. You may have not only saved some group member a few bucks, but maybe also a ton and a half of heart ache. I have made mention on group of a good person to do business with that I met on AquaBid. It's a sword that cuts both ways. The point is one of the most important functions of the group is to share information ------------------------- good or bad. As I said, your experience and writing about it, may have saved someone else. After word gets out they usually wise up. Bill --- On Thu, 10/15/09, Lainey Alexander <lainealex@...> wrote: > From: Lainey Alexander <lainealex@...> > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: Green water continued > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Date: Thursday, October 15, 2009, 6:09 PM > I have never badmouthed a business > online before but AZ Aquatics  > really needs to change their ways. Over the past two > months, half of  > everything I bought from them died and I spent over $250 > which they  > assured me they would refund and never did. Also, they > aggressively  > convinced me to buy a whole bunch of things I didn't really > think I  > needed - and half of all that died. Also, they ignored an > email  > request to cancel my final order and sent it anyways - this > was a  > shipment of Galaxy Rasboras (celestial pearl danios) that > went into  > emergency quarantine (as soon as I saw that they ignored my > request  > to cancel and instead just went ahead and sent the fish, I > went out  > and bought an entire tank set up for a quarantine which was > just as  > well since the fish were riddled with ammonia poisoning and > dying  > when they got here). > > I could go on and on and on about dealing with them, it was > horrific. > > I feel pretty sure they sent some stuff that had to have > been dead  > when sent because of how decomposed it was after overnight > shipping -  > I mean plants that were completely slimy and broken into > tiny  > fragments, smelly snails etc etc etc. > > It was a disaster. > > Caveat emptor. > > Lainey > http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com > > On Oct 15, 2009, at 5:55 PM, Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > > > I think you're coming to the realization that YOU need > to check out  > > and > > verify everything that any one person tells you... > including me... but > > especially people that have a financial interest in > getting you to  > > listen to > > them. There certainly are a LOT of good and > knowledgeable fish store > > employees out there but there seems to be a growing > number who  > > might be good > > at running their fish stores but not good at the long > term success in > > keeping fish. Way too many chemicals are being pushed > on people  > > nowadays as > > well as BIG Tank busting fish that should not even be > available to  > > most > > people. > > > > There's a HUGE difference between keeping a shipment > of new  > > juvenile fish > > alive long enough to sell them, a few days to a week > or two,  > > compared to > > keeping that same fish alive and providing a proper > sized and  > > adequately > > maintained tank for 5, 10, 20 or more years (goldfish > should live  > > for 20+ > > years as well as many other fish living for 10-20 > years or more).  > > The fish > > stores *expect* to have a certain percentage of their > fish die and  > > they've > > built this *loss* into their pricing. Once we buy > them, our goal is  > > to NOT > > have any of our fish die except from of old age so we > have to do  > > things a > > LOT DIFFERENT than the fish retailer. Now, breeders > are a different  > > sort > > since they have to keep their fish live and properly > homed to get  > > their fist > > to breed and hatch the eggs and grow out the fry until > they are  > > large enough > > to sell and then start the cycle over again... so if > you are buying  > > from a > > private breeder, then you are more likely to get > reliable advice  > > from that > > sort of fish keeper... but someone that just imports > and sells  > > them... not > > so reliable, IMO. > > > > While AZ Aquatics has a very nice website and even has > some good  > > info on > > their site, over the past several years, I've heard > more bad than  > > good from > > them. At one time, they had a very bad rating with the > BBBOnline  > > due to > > ripping people off with undisclosed shipping charges > but then I  > > heard a few > > good reports on them but it seems that they might be > resorting to  > > ripping > > people off again. > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > > (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are > listed on the  > > right > > side, alphabetically under Labels and also under > Archives by Year,  > > Month) > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com  > > > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] > On > > Behalf Of Lainey Alexander > > Sent: Thursday, October 15, 2009 1:26 PM > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: Green water continued > > > > I'm embarrassed to admit this, but the guy at Arizona > Aquatics  > > talked me > > into the six, and then the idea was that some of them > never get to  > > be the > > full size, supposedly many of them stay fairly small. > I realize now  > > that all > > of this is completely bad information, but I'm stuck > with it. As  > > soon as I > > realized what had happened I decided to return them to > a LFS, but the > > problem is, I really like them! > > > > But yes, I know they will have to be rehomed, at least > most of them. > > They are doing an amazing job on hair algae and other > types of  > > algae on the > > plants, and with my dwarf puffer I can't have snails > or probably  > > shrimp > > either, so I am getting attached to the SAEs. I don't > like plecos... > > > > Lainey > > http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com > > > > On Oct 15, 2009, at 2:01 PM, Lenny V. aka GoldLenny > wrote: > > > > > Including the six SAE's.... probably around 100G. > A 65G with a 48" > > > x 18" > > > footprint, which is what I have for my two fancy > goldfish and a 3" > > > clown > > > pleco, would possibly work for you but you might > have to do twice > > > weekly 25% PWC's which would then, at least, > mimic the 65G being a > > > larger tank as far as water volume goes. And the > 48" x 18" footprint > > > gives a lot more surface area for adequate gas > exchange and also  > > gives > > > more square footage on the bottom and other > layers so the fish do  > > not > > > feel cramped. > > > > > > What possessed you to get six SAE's and did you > know how big they > > > would get? > > > Most people only get one or two for algae eating > purposes. While  > > they > > > do best in schools, they can be kept > individually. Did your fish  > > store > > > talk you into six of them? > > > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles > > > referenced in above reply are listed on the right > side,  > > alphabetically > > > under Labels and also under Archives by Year, > > > Month) > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] > On Behalf Of Lainey Alexander > > > Sent: Thursday, October 15, 2009 12:03 PM > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: Green water > continued > > > > > > If I want to keep my current flock:) what would > be the appropriate > > > gallon size and tank size for them? 65g with a > bigger footprint? > > > > > > Thank you, > > > > > > Lainey > > > http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com > > > > > > On Oct 15, 2009, at 12:56 PM, Amber Berglund > wrote: > > > > > > > She said she didn't know which they were I > thought, or I may be > > > > getting my threads mixed, so I didn't want > to say 6 inches when I > > > > wasn't sure what type of algae eaters they > were, I just > > > remembered her > > > > having them. > > > > I knew they'd grow over 3-4 inches at least > though, so I stayed  > > with > > > > the safe guess ;) LOL. > > > > I did notice that the tank was quite a bit > crowded though and was > > > > trying to point out that the algae eaters > should be the first  > > to go > > > > since they are the largest fish she has. > > > > > > > > Amber > > > > > > > > Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Actually, the six SAE's should grow to > around 6" each > > > > > http://www.thekrib.com/Fish/Algae-Eaters/. > > > > > <http://www.thekrib.com/Fish/Algae-Eaters/.> > > > > > > > > > > Since a maximum of 6" torpedo shaped > fish should have at least 2 > > > > > gallons per expected adult sized inch > > > > > http://goldlenny.blogspot.com/2007/02/new-rules-guidelines-to- > > > > replace-1-per. > > > > > <http://goldlenny.blogspot.com/2007/02/new-rules-guidelines-to- > > > > replace-1-per.> > > > > > html, these six fish should have at > least 12G PER FISH, meaning > > > 72G > > > > > just for the six SAE's. Further, a 6" > fish should be kept in an > > > > > aquarium > > > > that is at > > > > > least 36" to 48" long. > > > > > > > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > > > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http:// > > > > GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > > > (Links to any articles referenced in > above reply are listed on > > > > the right > > > > > side, alphabetically under Labels and > also under Archives by > > > > Year, Month) > > > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On Behalf Of > Amber > > > Berglund > > > > > Sent: Thursday, October 15, 2009 10:55 > AM > > > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife% > > > > 40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: Green > water continued > > > > > > > > > > Also it doesn't matter how young the > fish are, they should > > > still be > > > > > calculated by their full growth at > adult size. Your tank is > > > > actually very > > > > > overcrowded mostly from your 6 algae > eaters that will grow to be > > > > over > > > > > several inches long. > > > > > You can get away with over stocking a > tank but you have to clean > > > > it a lot > > > > > more often than you have been otherwise > the water gets very  > > gross > > > > very > > > > > fast, > > > > > and the suspended algae is what is > saving you right now, > > > > otherwise you > > > > > could > > > > > have some excess amonia or nitrate or > something similar that > > > > kills all > > > > > your > > > > > fish. So don't dislike the green water > too much, it's keeping > > > > your fish > > > > > alive until you can sort out what's > going on in your tank. > > > > > > > > > > Amber > > > > > > > > > > Lainey Alexander wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > All of my fish are very young and > none of them is larger than > > > > about > > > > > > two inches, but most are only 1 to > 1.5 inches. As soon as the > > > > SAEs get > > > > > > to be four inches I will have to > get a bigger tank or else > > > > trade them > > > > > > in. Same for the rams if they get > too much bigger. I am trying > > > > to be > > > > > > very careful not to overcrowd, so > while I have largish  > > numbers, > > > > I have > > > > > > to say sometimes I only see about > seven fish at a time because > > > > > > everyone is so small and they > remain hidden much of the time. > > > > With my > > > > > > nitrate levels at zero I'm not > sure I can be too high on my > > > > bioload? > > > > > > > > > > > > Lainey > > > > > > http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com <http:// > > > > www.grasslandsgouldians.com> > > > > > > <http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com > > > > > <http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com>> > > > > > > > > > > > > On Oct 14, 2009, at 2:56 PM, > gailsugarpants wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > Lainey > > > > > > > Wow, you have 34 fish for a > 37 gallon tank. That is a high > > > > ratio. > > > > > > > How big are the SAEs? I see > that they get up to 6" and  > > that is > > > > > > > pretty big. They could > possibly be the heaviest part of your > > > > bioload. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Can you tell us how often you > do maintenance on your  > > tank? Do > > > > you do > > > > > > > weekly water changes and > vaccum your gravel? Also, how you > > > > maintain > > > > > > > your filtration system? That > info can be helpful too. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Thanks, > > > > > > > Gail > > > > > > > > > > > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>, Lainey > Alexander > > > > > > > <lainealex@...> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Hi Gail - > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I just posted my tank > measurements, it's 37g and for fish > > > > it's: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 7 RN tetras > > > > > > > > 13 celestial pearl > danios (one inch) > > > > > > > > 5 cory catfish > > > > > > > > 2 blue rams > > > > > > > > 6 siamese algae eaters > > > > > > > > 1 dwarf puffer (very > gentle) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > It doesn't look too > crowded to me, and I am not  > > planning any > > > > > > > > additions, but I know > the SAEs may outgrow the tank... > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Lainey > > > > > > > > http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com > > > > > <http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com> > > > > > > <http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com > > > > > <http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com>> > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > ------------------------------------ > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when > replying, Thank You. > ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> > ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> > PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is > NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of > the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new > subject (was re: old subject)" <- > <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. > , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. > > If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of > unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by > clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the home page.  > > Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com > to receive the digest, which includes up to 25 posts at a > time in a single email > > Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com > for the No E-Mail option where you will still be able to > read messages on the group and post replies. > > Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com > to receive individual e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links > > >     mailto:AquaticLife-fullfeatured@yahoogroups.com > > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 43849	From: bill 1433	Date: 10/15/2009
Subject: Re: Green water continued

Hi Lainey, While it is true that putting the bad mouth on a supplier is never good but sometimes necessary. Remember that this group covers some 2500 plus members. You may have not only saved some group member a few bucks, but maybe also a ton and a half of heart ache. I have made mention on group of a good person to do business with that I met on AquaBid. It's a sword that cuts both ways. The point is one of the most important functions of the group is to share information ------------------------- good or bad. As I said, your experience and writing about it, may have saved someone else. After word gets out they usually wise up. Bill --- On Thu, 10/15/09, Lainey Alexander <lainealex@...> wrote: > From: Lainey Alexander <lainealex@...> > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: Green water continued > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Date: Thursday, October 15, 2009, 6:09 PM > I have never badmouthed a business > online before but AZ Aquatics  > really needs to change their ways. Over the past two > months, half of  > everything I bought from them died and I spent over $250 > which they  > assured me they would refund and never did. Also, they > aggressively  > convinced me to buy a whole bunch of things I didn't really > think I  > needed - and half of all that died. Also, they ignored an > email  > request to cancel my final order and sent it anyways - this > was a  > shipment of Galaxy Rasboras (celestial pearl danios) that > went into  > emergency quarantine (as soon as I saw that they ignored my > request  > to cancel and instead just went ahead and sent the fish, I > went out  > and bought an entire tank set up for a quarantine which was > just as  > well since the fish were riddled with ammonia poisoning and > dying  > when they got here). > > I could go on and on and on about dealing with them, it was > horrific. > > I feel pretty sure they sent some stuff that had to have > been dead  > when sent because of how decomposed it was after overnight > shipping -  > I mean plants that were completely slimy and broken into > tiny  > fragments, smelly snails etc etc etc. > > It was a disaster. > > Caveat emptor. > > Lainey > http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com > > On Oct 15, 2009, at 5:55 PM, Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > > > I think you're coming to the realization that YOU need > to check out  > > and > > verify everything that any one person tells you... > including me... but > > especially people that have a financial interest in > getting you to  > > listen to > > them. There certainly are a LOT of good and > knowledgeable fish store > > employees out there but there seems to be a growing > number who  > > might be good > > at running their fish stores but not good at the long > term success in > > keeping fish. Way too many chemicals are being pushed > on people  > > nowadays as > > well as BIG Tank busting fish that should not even be > available to  > > most > > people. > > > > There's a HUGE difference between keeping a shipment > of new  > > juvenile fish > > alive long enough to sell them, a few days to a week > or two,  > > compared to > > keeping that same fish alive and providing a proper > sized and  > > adequately > > maintained tank for 5, 10, 20 or more years (goldfish > should live  > > for 20+ > > years as well as many other fish living for 10-20 > years or more).  > > The fish > > stores *expect* to have a certain percentage of their > fish die and  > > they've > > built this *loss* into their pricing. Once we buy > them, our goal is  > > to NOT > > have any of our fish die except from of old age so we > have to do  > > things a > > LOT DIFFERENT than the fish retailer. Now, breeders > are a different  > > sort > > since they have to keep their fish live and properly > homed to get  > > their fist > > to breed and hatch the eggs and grow out the fry until > they are  > > large enough > > to sell and then start the cycle over again... so if > you are buying  > > from a > > private breeder, then you are more likely to get > reliable advice  > > from that > > sort of fish keeper... but someone that just imports > and sells  > > them... not > > so reliable, IMO. > > > > While AZ Aquatics has a very nice website and even has > some good  > > info on > > their site, over the past several years, I've heard > more bad than  > > good from > > them. At one time, they had a very bad rating with the > BBBOnline  > > due to > > ripping people off with undisclosed shipping charges > but then I  > > heard a few > > good reports on them but it seems that they might be > resorting to  > > ripping > > people off again. > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > > (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are > listed on the  > > right > > side, alphabetically under Labels and also under > Archives by Year,  > > Month) > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com  > > > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] > On > > Behalf Of Lainey Alexander > > Sent: Thursday, October 15, 2009 1:26 PM > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: Green water continued > > > > I'm embarrassed to admit this, but the guy at Arizona > Aquatics  > > talked me > > into the six, and then the idea was that some of them > never get to  > > be the > > full size, supposedly many of them stay fairly small. > I realize now  > > that all > > of this is completely bad information, but I'm stuck > with it. As  > > soon as I > > realized what had happened I decided to return them to > a LFS, but the > > problem is, I really like them! > > > > But yes, I know they will have to be rehomed, at least > most of them. > > They are doing an amazing job on hair algae and other > types of  > > algae on the > > plants, and with my dwarf puffer I can't have snails > or probably  > > shrimp > > either, so I am getting attached to the SAEs. I don't > like plecos... > > > > Lainey > > http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com > > > > On Oct 15, 2009, at 2:01 PM, Lenny V. aka GoldLenny > wrote: > > > > > Including the six SAE's.... probably around 100G. > A 65G with a 48" > > > x 18" > > > footprint, which is what I have for my two fancy > goldfish and a 3" > > > clown > > > pleco, would possibly work for you but you might > have to do twice > > > weekly 25% PWC's which would then, at least, > mimic the 65G being a > > > larger tank as far as water volume goes. And the > 48" x 18" footprint > > > gives a lot more surface area for adequate gas > exchange and also  > > gives > > > more square footage on the bottom and other > layers so the fish do  > > not > > > feel cramped. > > > > > > What possessed you to get six SAE's and did you > know how big they > > > would get? > > > Most people only get one or two for algae eating > purposes. While  > > they > > > do best in schools, they can be kept > individually. Did your fish  > > store > > > talk you into six of them? > > > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles > > > referenced in above reply are listed on the right > side,  > > alphabetically > > > under Labels and also under Archives by Year, > > > Month) > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] > On Behalf Of Lainey Alexander > > > Sent: Thursday, October 15, 2009 12:03 PM > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: Green water > continued > > > > > > If I want to keep my current flock:) what would > be the appropriate > > > gallon size and tank size for them? 65g with a > bigger footprint? > > > > > > Thank you, > > > > > > Lainey > > > http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com > > > > > > On Oct 15, 2009, at 12:56 PM, Amber Berglund > wrote: > > > > > > > She said she didn't know which they were I > thought, or I may be > > > > getting my threads mixed, so I didn't want > to say 6 inches when I > > > > wasn't sure what type of algae eaters they > were, I just > > > remembered her > > > > having them. > > > > I knew they'd grow over 3-4 inches at least > though, so I stayed  > > with > > > > the safe guess ;) LOL. > > > > I did notice that the tank was quite a bit > crowded though and was > > > > trying to point out that the algae eaters > should be the first  > > to go > > > > since they are the largest fish she has. > > > > > > > > Amber > > > > > > > > Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Actually, the six SAE's should grow to > around 6" each > > > > > http://www.thekrib.com/Fish/Algae-Eaters/. > > > > > <http://www.thekrib.com/Fish/Algae-Eaters/.> > > > > > > > > > > Since a maximum of 6" torpedo shaped > fish should have at least 2 > > > > > gallons per expected adult sized inch > > > > > http://goldlenny.blogspot.com/2007/02/new-rules-guidelines-to- > > > > replace-1-per. > > > > > <http://goldlenny.blogspot.com/2007/02/new-rules-guidelines-to- > > > > replace-1-per.> > > > > > html, these six fish should have at > least 12G PER FISH, meaning > > > 72G > > > > > just for the six SAE's. Further, a 6" > fish should be kept in an > > > > > aquarium > > > > that is at > > > > > least 36" to 48" long. > > > > > > > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > > > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http:// > > > > GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > > > (Links to any articles referenced in > above reply are listed on > > > > the right > > > > > side, alphabetically under Labels and > also under Archives by > > > > Year, Month) > > > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On Behalf Of > Amber > > > Berglund > > > > > Sent: Thursday, October 15, 2009 10:55 > AM > > > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife% > > > > 40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: Green > water continued > > > > > > > > > > Also it doesn't matter how young the > fish are, they should > > > still be > > > > > calculated by their full growth at > adult size. Your tank is > > > > actually very > > > > > overcrowded mostly from your 6 algae > eaters that will grow to be > > > > over > > > > > several inches long. > > > > > You can get away with over stocking a > tank but you have to clean > > > > it a lot > > > > > more often than you have been otherwise > the water gets very  > > gross > > > > very > > > > > fast, > > > > > and the suspended algae is what is > saving you right now, > > > > otherwise you > > > > > could > > > > > have some excess amonia or nitrate or > something similar that > > > > kills all > > > > > your > > > > > fish. So don't dislike the green water > too much, it's keeping > > > > your fish > > > > > alive until you can sort out what's > going on in your tank. > > > > > > > > > > Amber > > > > > > > > > > Lainey Alexander wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > All of my fish are very young and > none of them is larger than > > > > about > > > > > > two inches, but most are only 1 to > 1.5 inches. As soon as the > > > > SAEs get > > > > > > to be four inches I will have to > get a bigger tank or else > > > > trade them > > > > > > in. Same for the rams if they get > too much bigger. I am trying > > > > to be > > > > > > very careful not to overcrowd, so > while I have largish  > > numbers, > > > > I have > > > > > > to say sometimes I only see about > seven fish at a time because > > > > > > everyone is so small and they > remain hidden much of the time. > > > > With my > > > > > > nitrate levels at zero I'm not > sure I can be too high on my > > > > bioload? > > > > > > > > > > > > Lainey > > > > > > http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com <http:// > > > > www.grasslandsgouldians.com> > > > > > > <http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com > > > > > <http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com>> > > > > > > > > > > > > On Oct 14, 2009, at 2:56 PM, > gailsugarpants wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > Lainey > > > > > > > Wow, you have 34 fish for a > 37 gallon tank. That is a high > > > > ratio. > > > > > > > How big are the SAEs? I see > that they get up to 6" and  > > that is > > > > > > > pretty big. They could > possibly be the heaviest part of your > > > > bioload. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Can you tell us how often you > do maintenance on your  > > tank? Do > > > > you do > > > > > > > weekly water changes and > vaccum your gravel? Also, how you > > > > maintain > > > > > > > your filtration system? That > info can be helpful too. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Thanks, > > > > > > > Gail > > > > > > > > > > > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>, Lainey > Alexander > > > > > > > <lainealex@...> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Hi Gail - > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I just posted my tank > measurements, it's 37g and for fish > > > > it's: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 7 RN tetras > > > > > > > > 13 celestial pearl > danios (one inch) > > > > > > > > 5 cory catfish > > > > > > > > 2 blue rams > > > > > > > > 6 siamese algae eaters > > > > > > > > 1 dwarf puffer (very > gentle) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > It doesn't look too > crowded to me, and I am not  > > planning any > > > > > > > > additions, but I know > the SAEs may outgrow the tank... > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Lainey > > > > > > > > http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com > > > > > <http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com> > > > > > > <http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com > > > > > <http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com>> > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > ------------------------------------ > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when > replying, Thank You. > ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> > ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> > PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is > NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of > the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new > subject (was re: old subject)" <- > <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. > , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. > > If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of > unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by > clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the home page.  > > Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com > to receive the digest, which includes up to 25 posts at a > time in a single email > > Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com > for the No E-Mail option where you will still be able to > read messages on the group and post replies. > > Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com > to receive individual e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links > > >     mailto:AquaticLife-fullfeatured@yahoogroups.com > > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 43850	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 10/15/2009
Subject: Re: Green water continued

I don't think Ray mentioned it but Hornwort is actually one of those few plants that not only out competes algae for nutrients but Hornwort actually puts out a natural allelopathic compound that dissuades the growth of algae so it works on two fronts in the fight against algae. I like using Anacharis more although it does not have the allelopathic defense but, to me, it looks better and doesn't have the issue with falling needles if/when a stalk starts to die off. Some algae's also do this to retard the growth of other algae's to give them a better chance of survival as well. Here's some more reading about plants and algae that use allelopathy... and these are also GREAT articles about algae in general. http://www.skepticalaquarist.com/docs/algae/algcont.shtml (entire article is about algae control and about 1/4th down starts the section on "Natural Chemistry") http://www.skepticalaquarist.com/docs/algae/tonealg.shtml (Allelopathy starts about 2/3rds down) Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Lainey Alexander Sent: Thursday, October 15, 2009 3:44 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: Green water continued Thanks, Ray, this makes me feel better. I actually went to buy more hornwort yesterday, got distracted by some other plants, totally forgot the hornwort, now have to go back. But I did pick up a lily that I'm excited about:) I am very happy to hear that the hornwort is as effective as I have read it to be. This is why I had it in there to begin with, and it seems like it was working. Now I have some in my quarantine and it seems to be keeping the water very clear in there. Plus, I really like it! And yes, the bunch plants came as bunches and I have them planted as you specify. As I mentioned, I raised the floor with gravel so that now the tank is about 24 inches to the bottom and the plants are closer to the sun as it were. I should be in good shape as soon as I get a bit more hornwort... Thanks to everyone for all this help! Lainey http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com On Oct 15, 2009, at 4:17 PM, sevenspringss@... wrote: > Lainey, Thanks for the description of your plant types. I see nothing > there, except for perhaps the red Myriophyllum and the purple Cabomba, > that needs 12 hours of light. If you got that recommendation from your > LFS (local fish store) also, saying your plants need this much light, > then by now you should realize that you're not receiving the best of > advice. While I still don't know how tall the bunch plants are -- and > I assume that are BUNCH plants, not just a strand or two as is your > Hornwort -- the rest of your plants don't seem to be that tall when I > read "small-type Swords" and "Micro-Swords" > (which don't come as bunches, BTW). You'll need either better lighting > to penetrate to 30" depth, or more patience in allowing more time for > the plants to take root properly and start growing fuller (& higher) > -- but not by longer lighting durations. > > Your purple Cabomba may not thrive without stronger lighting though, > but other than that I would not get rid of any. If anything, I'd > suggest adding to this as you don't have too many plants here and > could use more. > Since you > do have some Hornwort already as a plant of your choice, I'd advise > you to get a couple of bunches more and just allow it to float; it > doesn't have any kind of advanced root system anyway, and doesn't need > to be planted. > > As I said, I do hope your Myriophyllum and Cabomba are in bunches (of > at least 9 or 10 strands). They should not be kept in a tight bunch > though, as they need light and water circulation the whole length of > their strand, right down to the gravel. Each strand should be planted > individually about 1/2" > apart. I'm sure additional Hornwort will take care of your problem, > along with somewhat decreased lighting. Don't be afraid to even get 3 > bunches of Hornwort -- the more you have (up to a point), the better > it will be able to out-compete the algae. As your algae dies off, you > can try increasing your lighting duration by small amounts if it > appears the plants on the bottom need it -- but keep an eye on any > increase of this green water being ready to cut back on the light if > needed. With a good amount of Hornwort in there though, that should > keep things in check. > > Since your water as so deep, it would be a good idea to keep the > Hornwort in there at all times, rather than trading it back to the > store as I first mentioned. It will keep things better balanced and > allow for a bit more lighting time, which your other plants may need. > After getting rid of the algae, see if you can tie the Hornwort off to > the sides and back somehow, rather than having them floating directly > over the other plants, blocking their light. Ray

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 43851	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 10/15/2009
Subject: Re: That'll Teach Him!

What about the link I gave where the woman fried up their pet goldfish to spite the husband. She didn't just kill them.. but she fried them up and ate them too. They didn't mention if she got in trouble with the law or not. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of gailsugarpants Sent: Thursday, October 15, 2009 3:46 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: That'll Teach Him! I think I would freak out if my husband did that to any of my fishes, however mine are a lot bigger than a betta. I am glad that it counted as animal abuse - even tho it was just a small Betta --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, Donna Ransome <djransome@...> wrote: > > http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/33300456/ns/us_news-weird_news/?gt1=43001 >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 43852	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 10/15/2009
Subject: Re: Green water continued

Or find a goldfish keeper and give as much as you like to them. It's cheaper than goldfish food. ;-) Goldfish LOVE eating duckweed. I grow it in my Cherry Shrimp tank and scoop a couple of ounces every day or so and dump it in the goldfish tank and it's gone within a short time. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Amber Berglund Sent: Thursday, October 15, 2009 5:42 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: Green water continued The only thing I have to add about adding plants: Don't get duck weed unless you want it forever or want to tear your tank down and empty it out to get rid of it ;) LOL. I'm in a constant battle with my duckweed, have to remove cup fulls every few days or the whole top of the tank will be covered in duckweed, it doesn't matter how I move the filter intakes apparently it just doesn't push the water hard enough to dissuade the duckweed from growing. I do agree that you could use some more plants, and you don't want to buy more expensive harder to grow plants you can go with easy ones like Valsineria (which grow very well, I like the spiral ones myself). I also have some "dwarf" sagg, but I don't think they're really that dwarf like as they're half as tall as my 55 gallon ;) LOL. I also really like aponogeton (gosh I think I spelled that wrong, LOL), they come in bulbs sometimes with just a little sprout of greenery, and some of them get huge so make sure to read up on the varieties if you're going to get one. The crispus is pretty and not gigantic, madagascar lace likes to be in "cooler" water (under 80 at the warmest), it prefers around 75 degrees, and seems to like more water current rather than less. The one growing in my 55 gallon went dormant, hopefully it comes back. The one in my 125 gallon is growing very well, but that tank has A LOT of filters running on it to create a more "stream like" current. Oh the ulvacious aponogetton gets huge (think that's the one) it took over one entire side of my 55 gallon and is trying to out compete the duckweed and hornwort ;) LOL. Amber sevenspringss@... wrote: > > > Lainey, Thanks for the description of your plant types. I see nothing > there, except for perhaps the red Myriophyllum and the purple Cabomba, > that needs 12 hours of light. If you got that recommendation from your > LFS (local fish store) also, saying your plants need this much light, > then by now you should realize that you're not receiving the best of > advice. While I still don't know how tall the bunch plants are -- and > I assume that are BUNCH plants, not just a strand or two as is your > Hornwort -- the rest of your plants don't seem to be that tall when I > read "small-type Swords" and "Micro-Swords" > (which don't come as bunches, BTW). You'll need either better lighting > to penetrate to 30" depth, or more patience in allowing more time for > the plants to take root properly and start growing fuller (& higher) > -- but not by longer lighting durations. > > Your purple Cabomba may not thrive without stronger lighting though, > but other than that I would not get rid of any. If anything, I'd > suggest adding to this as you don't have too many plants here and > could use more. > Since you > do have some Hornwort already as a plant of your choice, I'd advise > you to get a couple of bunches more and just allow it to float; it > doesn't have any kind of advanced root system anyway, and doesn't need > to be planted. > > As I said, I do hope your Myriophyllum and Cabomba are in bunches (of > at least 9 or 10 strands). They should not be kept in a tight bunch > though, as they need light and water circulation the whole length of > their strand, right down to the gravel. Each strand should be planted > individually about 1/2" > apart. I'm sure additional Hornwort will take care of your problem, > along with somewhat decreased lighting. Don't be afraid to even get 3 > bunches of Hornwort -- the more you have (up to a point), the better > it will be able to out-compete the algae. As your algae dies off, you > can try increasing your lighting duration by small amounts if it > appears the plants on the bottom need it -- but keep an eye on any > increase of this green water being ready to cut back on the light if > needed. With a good amount of Hornwort in there though, that should > keep things in check. > > Since your water as so deep, it would be a good idea to keep the > Hornwort in there at all times, rather than trading it back to the > store as I first mentioned. It will keep things better balanced and > allow for a bit more lighting time, which your other plants may need. > After getting rid of the algae, see if you can tie the Hornwort off to > the sides and back somehow, rather than having them floating directly > over the other plants, blocking their light. Ray > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > ------------------------------------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the home page. Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com to receive the digest, which includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com for the No E-Mail option where you will still be able to read messages on the group and post replies. Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com to receive individual e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 43853	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 10/15/2009
Subject: Re: Green water continued

Lainey, [NOTE: I am back, after my mail server fired itself over the weekend, leading to more of a sleep deficit for me, and lack of communication with the outside world via e-mail (but plenty locally--is it fixed yet? sez she, no not yet sez he as he mutters to leave him alone so he can try to get it up and running again.). I ended up setting up a temporary server, until I get time to build a new one. Right now, I am looking for the right main board at a decent price, and once I have that, everything else will fall into place. Likely, nobody even missed me.] It is not so much what you can measure for that is of concern in your situation, especially since you seem to have them well in hand. Of concern are the various hormones released by the fish. There is one in particular that stunts the growth of the fish, if allowed to stay in the water long enough in sufficient concentrations. This will stunt the growth of any fish, no matter what fish is releasing it, even the fish releasing it. This is how the idea, along with lax water changing practices, that fish will grow only large enough to fit the size of the tank they are housed it. As hobbyists, most of us do not have access to the equipment needed to test for these kinds of substances. \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Lainey Alexander Sent: Thursday, October 15, 2009 11:26 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: Green water continued All of my fish are very young and none of them is larger than about two inches, but most are only 1 to 1.5 inches. As soon as the SAEs get to be four inches I will have to get a bigger tank or else trade them in. Same for the rams if they get too much bigger. I am trying to be very careful not to overcrowd, so while I have largish numbers, I have to say sometimes I only see about seven fish at a time because everyone is so small and they remain hidden much of the time. With my nitrate levels at zero I'm not sure I can be too high on my bioload? Lainey http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com On Oct 14, 2009, at 2:56 PM, gailsugarpants wrote: > Lainey > Wow, you have 34 fish for a 37 gallon tank. That is a high ratio. > How big are the SAEs? I see that they get up to 6" and that is > pretty big. They could possibly be the heaviest part of your bioload. > > Can you tell us how often you do maintenance on your tank? Do you > do weekly water changes and vaccum your gravel? Also, how you > maintain your filtration system? That info can be helpful too. > > Thanks, > Gail > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, Lainey Alexander > <lainealex@...> wrote: > > > > Hi Gail - > > > > I just posted my tank measurements, it's 37g and for fish it's: > > > > 7 RN tetras > > 13 celestial pearl danios (one inch) > > 5 cory catfish > > 2 blue rams > > 6 siamese algae eaters > > 1 dwarf puffer (very gentle) > > > > It doesn't look too crowded to me, and I am not planning any > > additions, but I know the SAEs may outgrow the tank... > > > > Lainey > > http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com > > > > > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 43854	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 10/15/2009
Subject: Re: Green water continued

Lenny, She could go with HO or VHO fluorescents, or even the compact fluorescents, for the depth, which would be less expensive than the halides or LED's you mention. \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Lenny V. aka GoldLenny Sent: Thursday, October 15, 2009 1:52 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: Green water continued Ray, What about the fact that she has a 37G TALL (30" tall) tank? I'm not sure standard fluorescent lighting will even reach down to plants on the bottom of this tank (since I've never had a tank this deep)... at least not at the light strength and spectrum needed for good plant growth. This could also be why the algae is taking over since it's in the water column and therefore able to be closer to the lighting. I believe one would need more advanced halogen or LED lighting that would be beam-type lighting to pierce down to the bottom in a deeper tank. I do not think normal fluorescent, and possibly even CFL's with the diffuser coating on the bulbs would allow for a light that would pierce down that deep.. unless it was really a LOT of wattage. Certainly the hornwort or anacharis type fast growing, stalk plants that can just be left floating would help to outcompete the algae and also take advantage of the lighting and extra CO2 from the surface air. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of sevenspringss@... Sent: Thursday, October 15, 2009 12:05 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: Green water continued Lainey, With following this thread now for some time, and seeing that others have given you good advice on how to control this suspended algae, if in fact thats what you have (which still seems to be in question at this tim), I thought I'd jump in here as you don't seem to be having much success. Know though, that if it is suspended algae, it will not be going away overnight -- or or two or three nights. Looking back to Monday (at 8:38 PM), you said the water was very green and getting greener, and that you could clearly see that your tank was getting an algae bloom -- yet at 11:51 PM that same evening you said you put some water in a white bowl (which I believe turned out to be a green bowl later), and that you couldn't tell if the water was green or yellow -- seemingly having doubts that you had an algae problem. At this point, I don't know if this has yet been established, although it does appear to me that's what you have. As Lenny pointed out, normal/average tank illumination should be in between 8 and 9 hours, unless you know the balance of your tank will not permit an algae growth beyond that. While you stated that, 12 hours per day was what you were told, as for the light requirements of your plants, I haven't seen you mention what kind of plants you have -- or how densely you have your tank planted with them. Please tell us what plants you have and how many of them. Even plants requiring more light need to first get established in order to take advantage of the amount of light you've been giving them. Cutting down on the light completely will not eliminate the problem, at least not in a safe way, and if it did, the problem will only return once you keep the lights on again. Amber's algae problem seemed to go away gradually -- but each tank is different -- and not everybody's suspended algae goes away spontaneously or by itself over time. The best and most recognized way to eliminate any algae is to have a sufficient amount of growing (established and rooted) plants that will out-compete the algae for food -- and this method almost always works provided there is a sufficient amount of plants to begin with (which I'm now tending to doubt), and providing the suspended algae has not been allowed to reach the point where it's cutting out the light needed by the plants. Doing partial water changes may only feed and stimulate the algae, depending on any amounts of plant nutrients that may be found in your water supply. This would lead to an even thicker algae bloom. Turning off the lights completely often can lead to a sudden crash of this algae population, killing most of it all at once, wherein an even larger bacterial bloom will take over -- feeding on all the dead algae -- and consuming most of the oxygen leading to a fish die-off. Clearing this up with partial water changes to save the balance of your fish will ensure the re-growth of new suspended algae as they will now feed on these nutrients with little to compete with them. Shutting down the lights will be detrimental to your plants. You need to get more plants and -- for now -- until you get the algae under control -- have the lights on for no more than 8 (9 at the very maximum) hours per day. The main thing is that you need more live plants. Under normal circumstances, the nitrogen cycle will see at least some production of nitrate if it is working properly -- which you should detect when testing for it. That you are not getting a reading for nitrate indicates it is being used (by the algae) as fast as it's being produced. Since you cut back on the feeding, and are keeping the nitrate production at a minimum, there is nothing further you can do besides starve it out. While we still need to know what plants and the amount of them that you have, I'd advise you add plants right now that are known plant-nutrient gobblers, even though you may not necessarily have planned on them. Get yourself several bunches of Hornwort, and treat it as though it's just a temporary measure in getting rid of this algae. In the meantime, as the algae clears, start adding more of the higher-light plants you said you already had some of, if this is what you prefer, and at the time they all become well established trade or give the Hornwort back to your LFS, unless you prefer to keep it. It still remains how high the light requirements really are for your existing plants, which is another thing I must question, as we don't know what plants you have. Ray P.S.: An ultra-violet filter will kill off this algae, which would then be needed to be cleaned up from the gravel as it falls dead, but this will not address the main issues. You need to get a good population of live plants going, preferably cutting down on the light duration if they permit it (depending on what plants you have), and more plants will permit a longer duration, although it (additional lighting duration) should not be required.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 43855	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 10/15/2009
Subject: Re: Green water continued

I knew you were having issues when I kept getting my off-list emails (jokes, etc.) bounced back to me for the past couple of days. Glad to see you're back. Did you just lose email or all internet access? Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Steve Szabo Sent: Thursday, October 15, 2009 7:10 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: Green water continued Lainey, [NOTE: I am back, after my mail server fired itself over the weekend, leading to more of a sleep deficit for me, and lack of communication with the outside world via e-mail (but plenty locally--is it fixed yet? sez she, no not yet sez he as he mutters to leave him alone so he can try to get it up and running again.). I ended up setting up a temporary server, until I get time to build a new one. Right now, I am looking for the right main board at a decent price, and once I have that, everything else will fall into place. Likely, nobody even missed me.] It is not so much what you can measure for that is of concern in your situation, especially since you seem to have them well in hand. Of concern are the various hormones released by the fish. There is one in particular that stunts the growth of the fish, if allowed to stay in the water long enough in sufficient concentrations. This will stunt the growth of any fish, no matter what fish is releasing it, even the fish releasing it. This is how the idea, along with lax water changing practices, that fish will grow only large enough to fit the size of the tank they are housed it. As hobbyists, most of us do not have access to the equipment needed to test for these kinds of substances. \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Lainey Alexander Sent: Thursday, October 15, 2009 11:26 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: Green water continued All of my fish are very young and none of them is larger than about two inches, but most are only 1 to 1.5 inches. As soon as the SAEs get to be four inches I will have to get a bigger tank or else trade them in. Same for the rams if they get too much bigger. I am trying to be very careful not to overcrowd, so while I have largish numbers, I have to say sometimes I only see about seven fish at a time because everyone is so small and they remain hidden much of the time. With my nitrate levels at zero I'm not sure I can be too high on my bioload? Lainey http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com On Oct 14, 2009, at 2:56 PM, gailsugarpants wrote: > Lainey > Wow, you have 34 fish for a 37 gallon tank. That is a high ratio. > How big are the SAEs? I see that they get up to 6" and that is pretty > big. They could possibly be the heaviest part of your bioload. > > Can you tell us how often you do maintenance on your tank? Do you do > weekly water changes and vaccum your gravel? Also, how you maintain > your filtration system? That info can be helpful too. > > Thanks, > Gail > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, Lainey Alexander <lainealex@...> > wrote: > > > > Hi Gail - > > > > I just posted my tank measurements, it's 37g and for fish it's: > > > > 7 RN tetras > > 13 celestial pearl danios (one inch) > > 5 cory catfish > > 2 blue rams > > 6 siamese algae eaters > > 1 dwarf puffer (very gentle) > > > > It doesn't look too crowded to me, and I am not planning any > > additions, but I know the SAEs may outgrow the tank... > > > > Lainey > > http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 43856	From: bill 1433	Date: 10/15/2009
Subject: Re: Green water continued

Since I have just had a go-around with plants and failed I am very interested in this line of discussion. In what started out in her aquarium at a depth of 30" I believe she mentioned the latest substrate put the plants at about 24-25 inches. Gentlemen, my question is for a method to figure power or over all light emission? Or in other words, is there a formula to pre-determine exactly how much light or light intensity she would need working at this depth? \\Steve// mentions HO or VHO fluorescents, or even the compact fluorescents. But which one is best? And again how much? Bill --- On Thu, 10/15/09, Steve Szabo <steve@...> wrote: > From: Steve Szabo <steve@...> > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: Green water continued > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Date: Thursday, October 15, 2009, 8:10 PM > Lenny, > > She could go with HO or VHO fluorescents, or even the > compact fluorescents, > for the depth, which would be less expensive than the > halides or LED's you > mention. > > \\Steve// > > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] > On > Behalf Of Lenny V. aka GoldLenny > Sent: Thursday, October 15, 2009 1:52 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: Green water continued > > Ray, > > What about the fact that she has a 37G TALL (30" tall) > tank?  I'm not sure > standard fluorescent lighting will even reach down to > plants on the bottom > of this tank (since I've never had a tank this deep)... at > least not at the > light strength and spectrum needed for good plant > growth.  This could also > be why the algae is taking over since it's in the water > column and therefore > able to be closer to the lighting.  I believe one > would need more advanced > halogen or LED lighting that would be beam-type lighting to > pierce down to > the bottom in a deeper tank.  I do not think normal > fluorescent, and > possibly even CFL's with the diffuser coating on the bulbs > would allow for a > light that would pierce down that deep.. unless it was > really a LOT of > wattage. > > Certainly the hornwort or anacharis type fast growing, > stalk plants that can > just be left floating would help to outcompete the algae > and also take > advantage of the lighting and extra CO2 from the surface > air. > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed > on the right > side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives > by Year, Month) > > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] > On > Behalf Of sevenspringss@... > Sent: Thursday, October 15, 2009 12:05 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: Green water continued > > Lainey,  With following this thread now for some time, > and seeing that > others have given you good advice on how to control this > suspended algae, if > in fact thats what you have (which still seems to be in > question at this > tim), I thought I'd jump in here as you don't seem to be > having much > success.  > Know though, that if it is suspended algae, it will not be > going away > overnight > -- or or two or three nights. > > Looking back to Monday (at 8:38 PM), you said the water was > very green and > getting greener, and that you could clearly see that your > tank was getting > an algae bloom -- yet at 11:51 PM that same evening you > said you put some > water in a white bowl (which I believe turned out to be a > green bowl later), > and that you couldn't tell if the water was green or yellow > -- seemingly > having doubts that you had an algae problem.  At this > point, I don't know if > this has yet been established, although it does appear to > me that's what you > have. > > As Lenny pointed out, normal/average tank illumination > should be in between > 8 and 9 hours, unless you know the balance of your tank > will not permit an > algae growth beyond that.  While you stated that, 12 > hours per day was what > you were told, as for the light requirements of your > plants, I haven't seen > you mention what kind of plants you have -- or how densely > you have your > tank planted with them.  Please tell us what plants > you have and how many of > them.  Even plants requiring more light need to first > get established in > order to take advantage of the amount of light you've been > giving them. > > Cutting down on the light completely will not eliminate the > problem, at > least not in a safe way, and if it did, the problem will > only return once > you keep the lights on again.  Amber's algae problem > seemed to go away > gradually > -- but each tank is different -- and not everybody's > suspended algae goes > away spontaneously or by itself over time.  The best > and most recognized way > to eliminate any algae is to have a sufficient amount of > growing > (established and rooted) plants that will out-compete the > algae for food -- > and this method almost always works provided there is a > sufficient amount of > plants to begin with (which I'm now tending to doubt), and > providing the > suspended algae has not been allowed to reach the point > where it's cutting > out the light needed by the plants.  > > Doing partial water changes may only feed and stimulate the > algae, depending > on any amounts of plant nutrients that may be found in your > water supply.  > This would lead to an even thicker algae bloom.  > Turning off the lights > completely often can lead to a sudden crash of this algae > population, > killing most of it all at once, wherein an even larger > bacterial bloom will > take over > -- feeding on all the dead algae -- and consuming most of > the oxygen leading > to a fish die-off.  Clearing this up with partial > water changes to save the > balance of your fish will ensure the re-growth of new > suspended algae as > they will now feed on these nutrients with little to > compete with them.  > Shutting down the lights will be detrimental to your > plants.  You need to > get more plants and -- for now -- until you get the algae > under control -- > have the lights on for no more than 8 (9 at the very > maximum) hours per day. > The main thing is that you need more live plants. > > Under normal circumstances, the nitrogen cycle will see at > least some > production of nitrate if it is working properly -- which > you should detect > when testing for it.  That you are not getting a > reading for nitrate > indicates it is being used (by the algae) as fast as it's > being produced. > Since you cut back on the feeding, and are keeping the > nitrate production at > a minimum, there is nothing further you can do besides > starve it out.  While > we still need to know what plants and the amount of them > that you have, I'd > advise you add plants right now that are known > plant-nutrient gobblers, even > though you may not necessarily have planned on them.  > Get yourself several > bunches of Hornwort, and treat it as though it's just a > temporary measure in > getting rid of this algae.  In the meantime, as the > algae clears, start > adding more of the higher-light plants you said you already > had some of, if > this is what you prefer, and at the time they all become > well established > trade or give the Hornwort back to your LFS, unless you > prefer to keep it. > It still remains how high the light requirements really are > for your > existing plants, which is another thing I must question, as > we don't know > what plants you have.  Ray >   > > P.S.:  An ultra-violet filter will kill off this > algae, which would then be > needed to be cleaned up from the gravel as it falls dead, > but this will not > address the main issues.  You need to get a good > population of live plants > going, preferably cutting down on the light duration if > they permit it > (depending on what plants you have), and more plants will > permit a longer > duration, although it (additional lighting duration) should > not be required. > > > > > ------------------------------------ > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when > replying, Thank You. > ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> > ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> > PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is > NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of > the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new > subject (was re: old subject)" <- > <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. > , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. > > If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of > unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by > clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the home page.  > > Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com > to receive the digest, which includes up to 25 posts at a > time in a single email > > Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com > for the No E-Mail option where you will still be able to > read messages on the group and post replies. > > Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com > to receive individual e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links > > >     mailto:AquaticLife-fullfeatured@yahoogroups.com > > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 43857	From: toddswoman496861@aim.com	Date: 10/15/2009
Subject: Re: Green water continued

what kind of lighting does hornwort take? and for how long? Kate Dale -----Original Message----- From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@...> To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Thu, Oct 15, 2009 7:37 pm Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: Green water continued I don't think Ray mentioned it but Hornwort is actually one of those few plants that not only out competes algae for nutrients but Hornwort actually puts out a natural allelopathic compound that dissuades the growth of algae so it works on two fronts in the fight against algae. I like using Anacharis more although it does not have the allelopathic defense but, to me, it looks better and doesn't have the issue with falling needles if/when a stalk starts to die off. Some algae's also do this to retard the growth of other algae's to give them a better chance of survival as well. Here's some more reading about plants and algae that use allelopathy... and these are also GREAT articles about algae in general. http://www.skepticalaquarist.com/docs/algae/algcont.shtml (entire article is about algae control and about 1/4th down starts the section on "Natural Chemistry") http://www.skepticalaquarist.com/docs/algae/tonealg.shtml (Allelopathy starts about 2/3rds down) Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Lainey Alexander Sent: Thursday, October 15, 2009 3:44 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: Green water continued Thanks, Ray, this makes me feel better. I actually went to buy more hornwort yesterday, got distracted by some other plants, totally forgot the hornwort, now have to go back. But I did pick up a lily that I'm excited about:) I am very happy to hear that the hornwort is as effective as I have read it to be. This is why I had it in there to begin with, and it seems like it was working. Now I have some in my quarantine and it seems to be keeping the water very clear in there. Plus, I really like it! And yes, the bunch plants came as bunches and I have them planted as you specify. As I mentioned, I raised the floor with gravel so that now the tank is about 24 inches to the bottom and the plants are closer to the sun as it were. I should be in good shape as soon as I get a bit more hornwort... Thanks to everyone for all this help! Lainey http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com On Oct 15, 2009, at 4:17 PM, sevenspringss@... wrote: > Lainey, Thanks for the description of your plant types. I see nothing > there, except for perhaps the red Myriophyllum and the purple Cabomba, > that needs 12 hours of light. If you got that recommendation from your > LFS (local fish store) also, saying your plants need this much light, > then by now you should realize that you're not receiving the best of > advice. While I still don't know how tall the bunch plants are -- and > I assume that are BUNCH plants, not just a strand or two as is your > Hornwort -- the rest of your plants don't seem to be that tall when I > read "small-type Swords" and "Micro-Swords" > (which don't come as bunches, BTW). You'll need either better lighting > to penetrate to 30" depth, or more patience in allowing more time for > the plants to take root properly and start growing fuller (& higher) > -- but not by longer lighting durations. > > Your purple Cabomba may not thrive without stronger lighting though, > but other than that I would not get rid of any. If anything, I'd > suggest adding to this as you don't have too many plants here and > could use more. > Since you > do have some Hornwort already as a plant of your choice, I'd advise > you to get a couple of bunches more and just allow it to float; it > doesn't have any kind of advanced root system anyway, and doesn't need > to be planted. > > As I said, I do hope your Myriophyllum and Cabomba are in bunches (of > at least 9 or 10 strands). They should not be kept in a tight bunch > though, as they need light and water circulation the whole length of > their strand, right down to the gravel. Each strand should be planted > individually about 1/2" > apart. I'm sure additional Hornwort will take care of your problem, > along with somewhat decreased lighting. Don't be afraid to even get 3 > bunches of Hornwort -- the more you have (up to a point), the better > it will be able to out-compete the algae. As your algae dies off, you > can try increasing your lighting duration by small amounts if it > appears the plants on the bottom need it -- but keep an eye on any > increase of this green water being ready to cut back on the light if > needed. With a good amount of Hornwort in there though, that should > keep things in check. > > Since your water as so deep, it would be a good idea to keep the > Hornwort in there at all times, rather than trading it back to the > store as I first mentioned. It will keep things better balanced and > allow for a bit more lighting time, which your other plants may need. > After getting rid of the algae, see if you can tie the Hornwort off to > the sides and back somehow, rather than having them floating directly > over the other plants, blocking their light. Ray ------------------------------------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the home page. Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com to receive the digest, which includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com for the No E-Mail option where you will still be able to read messages on the group and post replies. Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com to receive individual e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 43858	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 10/15/2009
Subject: Re: Green water continued

Just the e-mail portion of the server. The store seems to be intact, and I have about 900 messages sitting in the incoming queue. I know I can get the messages from the stores, but I do not know if I can get them intact from the queue for a new server. \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Lenny V. aka GoldLenny Sent: Thursday, October 15, 2009 8:23 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: Green water continued I knew you were having issues when I kept getting my off-list emails (jokes, etc.) bounced back to me for the past couple of days. Glad to see you're back. Did you just lose email or all internet access? Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Steve Szabo Sent: Thursday, October 15, 2009 7:10 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: Green water continued Lainey, [NOTE: I am back, after my mail server fired itself over the weekend, leading to more of a sleep deficit for me, and lack of communication with the outside world via e-mail (but plenty locally--is it fixed yet? sez she, no not yet sez he as he mutters to leave him alone so he can try to get it up and running again.). I ended up setting up a temporary server, until I get time to build a new one. Right now, I am looking for the right main board at a decent price, and once I have that, everything else will fall into place. Likely, nobody even missed me.] It is not so much what you can measure for that is of concern in your situation, especially since you seem to have them well in hand. Of concern are the various hormones released by the fish. There is one in particular that stunts the growth of the fish, if allowed to stay in the water long enough in sufficient concentrations. This will stunt the growth of any fish, no matter what fish is releasing it, even the fish releasing it. This is how the idea, along with lax water changing practices, that fish will grow only large enough to fit the size of the tank they are housed it. As hobbyists, most of us do not have access to the equipment needed to test for these kinds of substances. \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Lainey Alexander Sent: Thursday, October 15, 2009 11:26 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: Green water continued All of my fish are very young and none of them is larger than about two inches, but most are only 1 to 1.5 inches. As soon as the SAEs get to be four inches I will have to get a bigger tank or else trade them in. Same for the rams if they get too much bigger. I am trying to be very careful not to overcrowd, so while I have largish numbers, I have to say sometimes I only see about seven fish at a time because everyone is so small and they remain hidden much of the time. With my nitrate levels at zero I'm not sure I can be too high on my bioload? Lainey http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com On Oct 14, 2009, at 2:56 PM, gailsugarpants wrote: > Lainey > Wow, you have 34 fish for a 37 gallon tank. That is a high ratio. > How big are the SAEs? I see that they get up to 6" and that is pretty > big. They could possibly be the heaviest part of your bioload. > > Can you tell us how often you do maintenance on your tank? Do you do > weekly water changes and vaccum your gravel? Also, how you maintain > your filtration system? That info can be helpful too. > > Thanks, > Gail > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, Lainey Alexander <lainealex@...> > wrote: > > > > Hi Gail - > > > > I just posted my tank measurements, it's 37g and for fish it's: > > > > 7 RN tetras > > 13 celestial pearl danios (one inch) > > 5 cory catfish > > 2 blue rams > > 6 siamese algae eaters > > 1 dwarf puffer (very gentle) > > > > It doesn't look too crowded to me, and I am not planning any > > additions, but I know the SAEs may outgrow the tank... > > > > Lainey > > http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 43859	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 10/15/2009
Subject: Re: Green water continued

Bill, As far as I know, it is pretty much a by-gosh and by-golly method to determine what will give you what you need for lighting, but, I am sure that someone, somewhere has done the work to figure it out, and careful searching may turn it up in some obscure corner of the web. May be it would be best to use SCIRUS rather than Google for the search. It will probably turn up more relevant results without having to dig through all the returns. One thing to watch for, however, is that it is meant for scientific research and may give you a lot of returns from journals you need to pay for gaining access. \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of bill 1433 Sent: Thursday, October 15, 2009 9:01 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: Green water continued Since I have just had a go-around with plants and failed I am very interested in this line of discussion. In what started out in her aquarium at a depth of 30" I believe she mentioned the latest substrate put the plants at about 24-25 inches. Gentlemen, my question is for a method to figure power or over all light emission? Or in other words, is there a formula to pre-determine exactly how much light or light intensity she would need working at this depth? \\Steve// mentions HO or VHO fluorescents, or even the compact fluorescents. But which one is best? And again how much? Bill --- On Thu, 10/15/09, Steve Szabo <steve@...> wrote: > From: Steve Szabo <steve@...> > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: Green water continued > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Date: Thursday, October 15, 2009, 8:10 PM > Lenny, > > She could go with HO or VHO fluorescents, or even the > compact fluorescents, > for the depth, which would be less expensive than the > halides or LED's you > mention. > > \\Steve// > > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] > On > Behalf Of Lenny V. aka GoldLenny > Sent: Thursday, October 15, 2009 1:52 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: Green water continued > > Ray, > > What about the fact that she has a 37G TALL (30" tall) > tank?  I'm not sure > standard fluorescent lighting will even reach down to > plants on the bottom > of this tank (since I've never had a tank this deep)... at > least not at the > light strength and spectrum needed for good plant > growth.  This could also > be why the algae is taking over since it's in the water > column and therefore > able to be closer to the lighting.  I believe one > would need more advanced > halogen or LED lighting that would be beam-type lighting to > pierce down to > the bottom in a deeper tank.  I do not think normal > fluorescent, and > possibly even CFL's with the diffuser coating on the bulbs > would allow for a > light that would pierce down that deep.. unless it was > really a LOT of > wattage. > > Certainly the hornwort or anacharis type fast growing, > stalk plants that can > just be left floating would help to outcompete the algae > and also take > advantage of the lighting and extra CO2 from the surface > air. > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed > on the right > side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives > by Year, Month) > > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] > On > Behalf Of sevenspringss@... > Sent: Thursday, October 15, 2009 12:05 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: Green water continued > > Lainey,  With following this thread now for some time, > and seeing that > others have given you good advice on how to control this > suspended algae, if > in fact thats what you have (which still seems to be in > question at this > tim), I thought I'd jump in here as you don't seem to be > having much > success.  > Know though, that if it is suspended algae, it will not be > going away > overnight > -- or or two or three nights. > > Looking back to Monday (at 8:38 PM), you said the water was > very green and > getting greener, and that you could clearly see that your > tank was getting > an algae bloom -- yet at 11:51 PM that same evening you > said you put some > water in a white bowl (which I believe turned out to be a > green bowl later), > and that you couldn't tell if the water was green or yellow > -- seemingly > having doubts that you had an algae problem.  At this > point, I don't know if > this has yet been established, although it does appear to > me that's what you > have. > > As Lenny pointed out, normal/average tank illumination > should be in between > 8 and 9 hours, unless you know the balance of your tank > will not permit an > algae growth beyond that.  While you stated that, 12 > hours per day was what > you were told, as for the light requirements of your > plants, I haven't seen > you mention what kind of plants you have -- or how densely > you have your > tank planted with them.  Please tell us what plants > you have and how many of > them.  Even plants requiring more light need to first > get established in > order to take advantage of the amount of light you've been > giving them. > > Cutting down on the light completely will not eliminate the > problem, at > least not in a safe way, and if it did, the problem will > only return once > you keep the lights on again.  Amber's algae problem > seemed to go away > gradually > -- but each tank is different -- and not everybody's > suspended algae goes > away spontaneously or by itself over time.  The best > and most recognized way > to eliminate any algae is to have a sufficient amount of > growing > (established and rooted) plants that will out-compete the > algae for food -- > and this method almost always works provided there is a > sufficient amount of > plants to begin with (which I'm now tending to doubt), and > providing the > suspended algae has not been allowed to reach the point > where it's cutting > out the light needed by the plants.  > > Doing partial water changes may only feed and stimulate the > algae, depending > on any amounts of plant nutrients that may be found in your > water supply.  > This would lead to an even thicker algae bloom.  > Turning off the lights > completely often can lead to a sudden crash of this algae > population, > killing most of it all at once, wherein an even larger > bacterial bloom will > take over > -- feeding on all the dead algae -- and consuming most of > the oxygen leading > to a fish die-off.  Clearing this up with partial > water changes to save the > balance of your fish will ensure the re-growth of new > suspended algae as > they will now feed on these nutrients with little to > compete with them.  > Shutting down the lights will be detrimental to your > plants.  You need to > get more plants and -- for now -- until you get the algae > under control -- > have the lights on for no more than 8 (9 at the very > maximum) hours per day. > The main thing is that you need more live plants. > > Under normal circumstances, the nitrogen cycle will see at > least some > production of nitrate if it is working properly -- which > you should detect > when testing for it.  That you are not getting a > reading for nitrate > indicates it is being used (by the algae) as fast as it's > being produced. > Since you cut back on the feeding, and are keeping the > nitrate production at > a minimum, there is nothing further you can do besides > starve it out.  While > we still need to know what plants and the amount of them > that you have, I'd > advise you add plants right now that are known > plant-nutrient gobblers, even > though you may not necessarily have planned on them.  > Get yourself several > bunches of Hornwort, and treat it as though it's just a > temporary measure in > getting rid of this algae.  In the meantime, as the > algae clears, start > adding more of the higher-light plants you said you already > had some of, if > this is what you prefer, and at the time they all become > well established > trade or give the Hornwort back to your LFS, unless you > prefer to keep it. > It still remains how high the light requirements really are > for your > existing plants, which is another thing I must question, as > we don't know > what plants you have.  Ray >   > > P.S.:  An ultra-violet filter will kill off this > algae, which would then be > needed to be cleaned up from the gravel as it falls dead, > but this will not > address the main issues.  You need to get a good > population of live plants > going, preferably cutting down on the light duration if > they permit it > (depending on what plants you have), and more plants will > permit a longer > duration, although it (additional lighting duration) should > not be required. >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 43860	From: Lainey Alexander	Date: 10/15/2009
Subject: Re: Green water continued

That is sad, Steve, about the hormones. I am going to either rehome my soon-to-be jumbo guys or get a much bigger tank:) Lainey http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com On Oct 15, 2009, at 8:09 PM, Steve Szabo wrote: > Lainey, > > [NOTE: I am back, after my mail server fired itself over the weekend, > leading to more of a sleep deficit for me, and lack of > communication with > the outside world via e-mail (but plenty locally--is it fixed yet? > sez she, > no not yet sez he as he mutters to leave him alone so he can try to > get it > up and running again.). I ended up setting up a temporary server, > until I > get time to build a new one. Right now, I am looking for the right > main > board at a decent price, and once I have that, everything else will > fall > into place. Likely, nobody even missed me.] > > It is not so much what you can measure for that is of concern in your > situation, especially since you seem to have them well in hand. Of > concern > are the various hormones released by the fish. There is one in > particular > that stunts the growth of the fish, if allowed to stay in the water > long > enough in sufficient concentrations. This will stunt the growth of > any fish, > no matter what fish is releasing it, even the fish releasing it. > This is how > the idea, along with lax water changing practices, that fish will > grow only > large enough to fit the size of the tank they are housed it. As > hobbyists, > most of us do not have access to the equipment needed to test for > these > kinds of substances. > > \\Steve// > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On > Behalf Of Lainey Alexander > Sent: Thursday, October 15, 2009 11:26 AM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: Green water continued > > All of my fish are very young and none of them is larger than about > two inches, but most are only 1 to 1.5 inches. As soon as the SAEs > get to be four inches I will have to get a bigger tank or else trade > them in. Same for the rams if they get too much bigger. I am trying > to be very careful not to overcrowd, so while I have largish numbers, > I have to say sometimes I only see about seven fish at a time because > everyone is so small and they remain hidden much of the time. With my > nitrate levels at zero I'm not sure I can be too high on my bioload? > > Lainey > http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com > > On Oct 14, 2009, at 2:56 PM, gailsugarpants wrote: > > > Lainey > > Wow, you have 34 fish for a 37 gallon tank. That is a high ratio. > > How big are the SAEs? I see that they get up to 6" and that is > > pretty big. They could possibly be the heaviest part of your > bioload. > > > > Can you tell us how often you do maintenance on your tank? Do you > > do weekly water changes and vaccum your gravel? Also, how you > > maintain your filtration system? That info can be helpful too. > > > > Thanks, > > Gail > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, Lainey Alexander > > <lainealex@...> wrote: > > > > > > Hi Gail - > > > > > > I just posted my tank measurements, it's 37g and for fish it's: > > > > > > 7 RN tetras > > > 13 celestial pearl danios (one inch) > > > 5 cory catfish > > > 2 blue rams > > > 6 siamese algae eaters > > > 1 dwarf puffer (very gentle) > > > > > > It doesn't look too crowded to me, and I am not planning any > > > additions, but I know the SAEs may outgrow the tank... > > > > > > Lainey > > > http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com > > > > > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 43861	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 10/15/2009
Subject: Re: Green water continued

IMO, the main thing to remember nowadays is that Watts is OUT and Lumens and Spectrum are IN. It's impossible to compare wattage between the various lighting systems since a 40W CFL is up to 2-3 times brighter (more lumens) than a 40W regular fluorescent tube... same with HO, VHO, Halogen and the latest LED systems, which use up very few watts for the amount of light they put out. That *dude* (Carl Strohmeyer) at AmericanAquariumProducts has a nice long and well-referenced article about lighting, although I do not think he has a simple chart that one can look at. The article will leave you much more informed and much more confused after reading it all. ;-) http://www.americanaquariumproducts.com/Aquarium_Lighting.html (Scroll down all the way to the bottom four paragraphs and read the summary first... which kind of puts everything else above it in better perspective) Here's a few others I have in my favorites. Article and 12 page forum thread... http://www.aquaticplantcentral.com/forumapc/lighting/38014-lighting-spectrum -photosythesis.html Dr. Tim's article(s) on lighting... http://www.fishchannel.com/setups/aquascaping/dont-stay-in-the-dark.aspx http://www.cichlid-forum.com/articles/marineland_aquarium_lighting.php Good article comparing the various lighting systems. http://oee.nrcan.gc.ca/publications/equipment/lighting/section7.cfm?attr=0 This article has charts comparing many of the various brands and types of bulbs showing watts, lumens, Kelvin rating (spectrum), etc. http://www.aquabotanic.com/lightcompare.htm If you read, memorize and can articulate all of the above, you will be an expert on aquarium lighting. ;-) I'm only an expert at keeping my favorites organized. LOL Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Steve Szabo Sent: Thursday, October 15, 2009 8:35 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: Green water continued Bill, As far as I know, it is pretty much a by-gosh and by-golly method to determine what will give you what you need for lighting, but, I am sure that someone, somewhere has done the work to figure it out, and careful searching may turn it up in some obscure corner of the web. May be it would be best to use SCIRUS rather than Google for the search. It will probably turn up more relevant results without having to dig through all the returns. One thing to watch for, however, is that it is meant for scientific research and may give you a lot of returns from journals you need to pay for gaining access. \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of bill 1433 Sent: Thursday, October 15, 2009 9:01 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: Green water continued Since I have just had a go-around with plants and failed I am very interested in this line of discussion. In what started out in her aquarium at a depth of 30" I believe she mentioned the latest substrate put the plants at about 24-25 inches. Gentlemen, my question is for a method to figure power or over all light emission? Or in other words, is there a formula to pre-determine exactly how much light or light intensity she would need working at this depth? \\Steve// mentions HO or VHO fluorescents, or even the compact fluorescents. But which one is best? And again how much? Bill --- On Thu, 10/15/09, Steve Szabo <steve@...> wrote: > From: Steve Szabo <steve@...> > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: Green water continued > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Date: Thursday, October 15, 2009, 8:10 PM Lenny, > > She could go with HO or VHO fluorescents, or even the compact > fluorescents, for the depth, which would be less expensive than the > halides or LED's you mention. > > \\Steve// > > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] > On > Behalf Of Lenny V. aka GoldLenny > Sent: Thursday, October 15, 2009 1:52 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: Green water continued > > Ray, > > What about the fact that she has a 37G TALL (30" tall) tank?  I'm not > sure standard fluorescent lighting will even reach down to plants on > the bottom of this tank (since I've never had a tank this deep)... at > least not at the light strength and spectrum needed for good plant > growth.  This could also be why the algae is taking over since it's in > the water column and therefore able to be closer to the lighting.  I > believe one would need more advanced halogen or LED lighting that > would be beam-type lighting to pierce down to the bottom in a deeper > tank.  I do not think normal fluorescent, and possibly even CFL's with > the diffuser coating on the bulbs would allow for a light that would > pierce down that deep.. unless it was really a LOT of wattage. > > Certainly the hornwort or anacharis type fast growing, stalk plants > that can just be left floating would help to outcompete the algae and > also take advantage of the lighting and extra CO2 from the surface > air. > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles > referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically > under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) > > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] > On > Behalf Of sevenspringss@... > Sent: Thursday, October 15, 2009 12:05 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: Green water continued > > Lainey,  With following this thread now for some time, > and seeing that > others have given you good advice on how to control this > suspended algae, if > in fact thats what you have (which still seems to be in > question at this > tim), I thought I'd jump in here as you don't seem to be > having much > success.  > Know though, that if it is suspended algae, it will not be > going away > overnight > -- or or two or three nights. > > Looking back to Monday (at 8:38 PM), you said the water was > very green and > getting greener, and that you could clearly see that your > tank was getting > an algae bloom -- yet at 11:51 PM that same evening you > said you put some > water in a white bowl (which I believe turned out to be a > green bowl later), > and that you couldn't tell if the water was green or yellow > -- seemingly > having doubts that you had an algae problem.  At this > point, I don't know if > this has yet been established, although it does appear to > me that's what you > have. > > As Lenny pointed out, normal/average tank illumination > should be in between > 8 and 9 hours, unless you know the balance of your tank > will not permit an > algae growth beyond that.  While you stated that, 12 > hours per day was what > you were told, as for the light requirements of your > plants, I haven't seen > you mention what kind of plants you have -- or how densely > you have your > tank planted with them.  Please tell us what plants > you have and how many of > them.  Even plants requiring more light need to first > get established in > order to take advantage of the amount of light you've been > giving them. > > Cutting down on the light completely will not eliminate the > problem, at > least not in a safe way, and if it did, the problem will > only return once > you keep the lights on again.  Amber's algae problem > seemed to go away > gradually > -- but each tank is different -- and not everybody's > suspended algae goes > away spontaneously or by itself over time.  The best > and most recognized way > to eliminate any algae is to have a sufficient amount of > growing > (established and rooted) plants that will out-compete the > algae for food -- > and this method almost always works provided there is a > sufficient amount of > plants to begin with (which I'm now tending to doubt), and > providing the > suspended algae has not been allowed to reach the point > where it's cutting > out the light needed by the plants.  > > Doing partial water changes may only feed and stimulate the > algae, depending > on any amounts of plant nutrients that may be found in your > water supply.  > This would lead to an even thicker algae bloom.  > Turning off the lights > completely often can lead to a sudden crash of this algae > population, > killing most of it all at once, wherein an even larger > bacterial bloom will > take over > -- feeding on all the dead algae -- and consuming most of > the oxygen leading > to a fish die-off.  Clearing this up with partial > water changes to save the > balance of your fish will ensure the re-growth of new > suspended algae as > they will now feed on these nutrients with little to > compete with them.  > Shutting down the lights will be detrimental to your > plants.  You need to > get more plants and -- for now -- until you get the algae > under control -- > have the lights on for no more than 8 (9 at the very > maximum) hours per day. > The main thing is that you need more live plants. > > Under normal circumstances, the nitrogen cycle will see at > least some > production of nitrate if it is working properly -- which > you should detect > when testing for it.  That you are not getting a > reading for nitrate > indicates it is being used (by the algae) as fast as it's > being produced. > Since you cut back on the feeding, and are keeping the > nitrate production at > a minimum, there is nothing further you can do besides > starve it out.  While > we still need to know what plants and the amount of them > that you have, I'd > advise you add plants right now that are known > plant-nutrient gobblers, even > though you may not necessarily have planned on them.  > Get yourself several > bunches of Hornwort, and treat it as though it's just a > temporary measure in > getting rid of this algae.  In the meantime, as the > algae clears, start > adding more of the higher-light plants you said you already > had some of, if > this is what you prefer, and at the time they all become > well established > trade or give the Hornwort back to your LFS, unless you > prefer to keep it. > It still remains how high the light requirements really are > for your > existing plants, which is another thing I must question, as > we don't know > what plants you have.  Ray >   > > P.S.:  An ultra-violet filter will kill off this > algae, which would then be > needed to be cleaned up from the gravel as it falls dead, > but this will not > address the main issues.  You need to get a good > population of live plants > going, preferably cutting down on the light duration if > they permit it > (depending on what plants you have), and more plants will > permit a longer > duration, although it (additional lighting duration) should > not be required.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 43862	From: Lainey Alexander	Date: 10/15/2009
Subject: OOPS re green water

I just realized that I completely goofed on these measurements (below), which is why everyone has been so adamant about my crazy tank shape! The height is 23, the WIDTH is 30 and the depth is 12. I'm so sorry to make everyone talk about something that was incorrect this whole time. But now, can you all let me know if this is a much more reasonable depth please? Does this change my bioload issues at all? Does it change the appropriateness of my lights? In five weeks several of my plants are near the top of the water, so I think they must be fairly happy with the light. My apologies for being careless. Lainey > > Tank measurements are 30 high, 23 wide and 12 deep. > > Fluorescent lights, 2 @65 watts and 6700k - on 12 and off 12 which is > what I have been told my plants require... > > I used Activ-Flora gravel, and this contains non-nitrogen fertilizer > plus "instant-cycling" bacteria > > Not dosing with any chemicals or ferts > > *** > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 43863	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 10/15/2009
Subject: Re: WAS: Green water continued NOW: Lighting Q's

Lighting is a fuzzy grey area for some reason, all lighting companies measure their light output in lumens and kelvin range (for their light spectrum), but I've found it's not a very exact method to do it. So every bulb can each be different in their light output but the company can state they all have the same lumens or even Kelvin range. But to put it honestly in what I have found out, HO or VHO are the cheaper way to go for more light output if you don't want to use the more expensive CFL's, LED's or metal halides (which are security lights for outside lighting around your house, etc). Also aquatic plants typically prefer a kelvin range of 6500-6700. So basically if you're looking for a better value with a decent light output I would go with HO or VHO fluorescent bulbs, CFL bulbs are great though if you want to spend a little bit more money as they last a lot longer and they don't get weak as fast as fluorescents will (they slowly get dimmer with age), CFL's tend to last longer all the way around IMO and from personal experience. Although if you break a CFL bulb you're NOT supposed to just throw it away in the garbage, it is considered a hazardous substance and has to be disposed of by a hazmat specialist. Hope that helps, Amber bill 1433 wrote: > > > Since I have just had a go-around with plants and failed > I am very interested in this line of discussion. > > In what started out in her aquarium at a depth of 30" I believe > she mentioned the latest substrate put the plants at about 24-25 inches. > > Gentlemen, my question is for a method to figure power > or over all light emission? Or in other words, is > there a formula to pre-determine exactly how much light or light > intensity she would need working at this depth? > > \\Steve// mentions HO or VHO fluorescents, > or even the compact fluorescents. But which one is best? > And again how much? > > Bill > > --- On Thu, 10/15/09, Steve Szabo <steve@... > <mailto:steve%40familyszabo.com>> wrote: > > > From: Steve Szabo <steve@... > <mailto:steve%40familyszabo.com>> > > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: Green water continued > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > Date: Thursday, October 15, 2009, 8:10 PM > > Lenny, > > > > She could go with HO or VHO fluorescents, or even the > > compact fluorescents, > > for the depth, which would be less expensive than the > > halides or LED's you > > mention. > > > > \\Steve// > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] > > On > > Behalf Of Lenny V. aka GoldLenny > > Sent: Thursday, October 15, 2009 1:52 PM > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: Green water continued > > > > Ray, > > > > What about the fact that she has a 37G TALL (30" tall) > > tank? I'm not sure > > standard fluorescent lighting will even reach down to > > plants on the bottom > > of this tank (since I've never had a tank this deep)... at > > least not at the > > light strength and spectrum needed for good plant > > growth. This could also > > be why the algae is taking over since it's in the water > > column and therefore > > able to be closer to the lighting. I believe one > > would need more advanced > > halogen or LED lighting that would be beam-type lighting to > > pierce down to > > the bottom in a deeper tank. I do not think normal > > fluorescent, and > > possibly even CFL's with the diffuser coating on the bulbs > > would allow for a > > light that would pierce down that deep.. unless it was > > really a LOT of > > wattage. > > > > Certainly the hornwort or anacharis type fast growing, > > stalk plants that can > > just be left floating would help to outcompete the algae > > and also take > > advantage of the lighting and extra CO2 from the surface > > air. > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed > > on the right > > side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives > > by Year, Month) > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] > > On > > Behalf Of sevenspringss@... > <mailto:sevenspringss%40wmconnect.com> > > Sent: Thursday, October 15, 2009 12:05 PM > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: Green water continued > > > > Lainey, With following this thread now for some time, > > and seeing that > > others have given you good advice on how to control this > > suspended algae, if > > in fact thats what you have (which still seems to be in > > question at this > > tim), I thought I'd jump in here as you don't seem to be > > having much > > success. > > Know though, that if it is suspended algae, it will not be > > going away > > overnight > > -- or or two or three nights. > > > > Looking back to Monday (at 8:38 PM), you said the water was > > very green and > > getting greener, and that you could clearly see that your > > tank was getting > > an algae bloom -- yet at 11:51 PM that same evening you > > said you put some > > water in a white bowl (which I believe turned out to be a > > green bowl later), > > and that you couldn't tell if the water was green or yellow > > -- seemingly > > having doubts that you had an algae problem. At this > > point, I don't know if > > this has yet been established, although it does appear to > > me that's what you > > have. > > > > As Lenny pointed out, normal/average tank illumination > > should be in between > > 8 and 9 hours, unless you know the balance of your tank > > will not permit an > > algae growth beyond that. While you stated that, 12 > > hours per day was what > > you were told, as for the light requirements of your > > plants, I haven't seen > > you mention what kind of plants you have -- or how densely > > you have your > > tank planted with them. Please tell us what plants > > you have and how many of > > them. Even plants requiring more light need to first > > get established in > > order to take advantage of the amount of light you've been > > giving them. > > > > Cutting down on the light completely will not eliminate the > > problem, at > > least not in a safe way, and if it did, the problem will > > only return once > > you keep the lights on again. Amber's algae problem > > seemed to go away > > gradually > > -- but each tank is different -- and not everybody's > > suspended algae goes > > away spontaneously or by itself over time. The best > > and most recognized way > > to eliminate any algae is to have a sufficient amount of > > growing > > (established and rooted) plants that will out-compete the > > algae for food -- > > and this method almost always works provided there is a > > sufficient amount of > > plants to begin with (which I'm now tending to doubt), and > > providing the > > suspended algae has not been allowed to reach the point > > where it's cutting > > out the light needed by the plants. > > > > Doing partial water changes may only feed and stimulate the > > algae, depending > > on any amounts of plant nutrients that may be found in your > > water supply. > > This would lead to an even thicker algae bloom. > > Turning off the lights > > completely often can lead to a sudden crash of this algae > > population, > > killing most of it all at once, wherein an even larger > > bacterial bloom will > > take over > > -- feeding on all the dead algae -- and consuming most of > > the oxygen leading > > to a fish die-off. Clearing this up with partial > > water changes to save the > > balance of your fish will ensure the re-growth of new > > suspended algae as > > they will now feed on these nutrients with little to > > compete with them. > > Shutting down the lights will be detrimental to your > > plants. You need to > > get more plants and -- for now -- until you get the algae > > under control -- > > have the lights on for no more than 8 (9 at the very > > maximum) hours per day. > > The main thing is that you need more live plants. > > > > Under normal circumstances, the nitrogen cycle will see at > > least some > > production of nitrate if it is working properly -- which > > you should detect > > when testing for it. That you are not getting a > > reading for nitrate > > indicates it is being used (by the algae) as fast as it's > > being produced. > > Since you cut back on the feeding, and are keeping the > > nitrate production at > > a minimum, there is nothing further you can do besides > > starve it out. While > > we still need to know what plants and the amount of them > > that you have, I'd > > advise you add plants right now that are known > > plant-nutrient gobblers, even > > though you may not necessarily have planned on them. > > Get yourself several > > bunches of Hornwort, and treat it as though it's just a > > temporary measure in > > getting rid of this algae. In the meantime, as the > > algae clears, start > > adding more of the higher-light plants you said you already > > had some of, if > > this is what you prefer, and at the time they all become > > well established > > trade or give the Hornwort back to your LFS, unless you > > prefer to keep it. > > It still remains how high the light requirements really are > > for your > > existing plants, which is another thing I must question, as > > we don't know > > what plants you have. Ray > > > > > > P.S.: An ultra-violet filter will kill off this > > algae, which would then be > > needed to be cleaned up from the gravel as it falls dead, > > but this will not > > address the main issues. You need to get a good > > population of live plants > > going, preferably cutting down on the light duration if > > they permit it > > (depending on what plants you have), and more plants will > > permit a longer > > duration, although it (additional lighting duration) should > > not be required. > > > > > > > > > > ------------------------------------ > > > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when > > replying, Thank You. > > ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> > > ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> > > PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is > > NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of > > the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new > > subject (was re: old subject)" <- > > <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. > > , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. > > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. > > > > If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of > > unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by > > clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the home page. > > > > Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:aquaticlife-digest%40yahoogroups.com> > > to receive the digest, which includes up to 25 posts at a > > time in a single email > > > > Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:aquaticlife-nomail%40yahoogroups.com> > > for the No E-Mail option where you will still be able to > > read messages on the group and post replies. > > > > Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:aquaticlife-normal%40yahoogroups.com> > > to receive individual e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > mailto:AquaticLife-fullfeatured@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife-fullfeatured%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 43864	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 10/15/2009
Subject: Re: WAS: Green water continued NOW: Lighting Q's

Amber, Any fluorescent bulb contains mercury, from the lowly shop lights to the fanciest, most expensive, specialty lights. They all need to be disposed of properly, though most end up in the dumps across our land. \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Amber Berglund Sent: Thursday, October 15, 2009 10:29 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] WAS: Green water continued NOW: Lighting Q's Lighting is a fuzzy grey area for some reason, all lighting companies measure their light output in lumens and kelvin range (for their light spectrum), but I've found it's not a very exact method to do it. So every bulb can each be different in their light output but the company can state they all have the same lumens or even Kelvin range. But to put it honestly in what I have found out, HO or VHO are the cheaper way to go for more light output if you don't want to use the more expensive CFL's, LED's or metal halides (which are security lights for outside lighting around your house, etc). Also aquatic plants typically prefer a kelvin range of 6500-6700. So basically if you're looking for a better value with a decent light output I would go with HO or VHO fluorescent bulbs, CFL bulbs are great though if you want to spend a little bit more money as they last a lot longer and they don't get weak as fast as fluorescents will (they slowly get dimmer with age), CFL's tend to last longer all the way around IMO and from personal experience. Although if you break a CFL bulb you're NOT supposed to just throw it away in the garbage, it is considered a hazardous substance and has to be disposed of by a hazmat specialist. Hope that helps, Amber bill 1433 wrote: > > > Since I have just had a go-around with plants and failed > I am very interested in this line of discussion. > > In what started out in her aquarium at a depth of 30" I believe > she mentioned the latest substrate put the plants at about 24-25 inches. > > Gentlemen, my question is for a method to figure power > or over all light emission? Or in other words, is > there a formula to pre-determine exactly how much light or light > intensity she would need working at this depth? > > \\Steve// mentions HO or VHO fluorescents, > or even the compact fluorescents. But which one is best? > And again how much? > > Bill > > --- On Thu, 10/15/09, Steve Szabo <steve@... > <mailto:steve%40familyszabo.com>> wrote: > > > From: Steve Szabo <steve@... > <mailto:steve%40familyszabo.com>> > > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: Green water continued > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > Date: Thursday, October 15, 2009, 8:10 PM > > Lenny, > > > > She could go with HO or VHO fluorescents, or even the > > compact fluorescents, > > for the depth, which would be less expensive than the > > halides or LED's you > > mention. > > > > \\Steve// > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] > > On > > Behalf Of Lenny V. aka GoldLenny > > Sent: Thursday, October 15, 2009 1:52 PM > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: Green water continued > > > > Ray, > > > > What about the fact that she has a 37G TALL (30" tall) > > tank? I'm not sure > > standard fluorescent lighting will even reach down to > > plants on the bottom > > of this tank (since I've never had a tank this deep)... at > > least not at the > > light strength and spectrum needed for good plant > > growth. This could also > > be why the algae is taking over since it's in the water > > column and therefore > > able to be closer to the lighting. I believe one > > would need more advanced > > halogen or LED lighting that would be beam-type lighting to > > pierce down to > > the bottom in a deeper tank. I do not think normal > > fluorescent, and > > possibly even CFL's with the diffuser coating on the bulbs > > would allow for a > > light that would pierce down that deep.. unless it was > > really a LOT of > > wattage. > > > > Certainly the hornwort or anacharis type fast growing, > > stalk plants that can > > just be left floating would help to outcompete the algae > > and also take > > advantage of the lighting and extra CO2 from the surface > > air. > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed > > on the right > > side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives > > by Year, Month) > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] > > On > > Behalf Of sevenspringss@... > <mailto:sevenspringss%40wmconnect.com> > > Sent: Thursday, October 15, 2009 12:05 PM > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: Green water continued > > > > Lainey, With following this thread now for some time, > > and seeing that > > others have given you good advice on how to control this > > suspended algae, if > > in fact thats what you have (which still seems to be in > > question at this > > tim), I thought I'd jump in here as you don't seem to be > > having much > > success. > > Know though, that if it is suspended algae, it will not be > > going away > > overnight > > -- or or two or three nights. > > > > Looking back to Monday (at 8:38 PM), you said the water was > > very green and > > getting greener, and that you could clearly see that your > > tank was getting > > an algae bloom -- yet at 11:51 PM that same evening you > > said you put some > > water in a white bowl (which I believe turned out to be a > > green bowl later), > > and that you couldn't tell if the water was green or yellow > > -- seemingly > > having doubts that you had an algae problem. At this > > point, I don't know if > > this has yet been established, although it does appear to > > me that's what you > > have. > > > > As Lenny pointed out, normal/average tank illumination > > should be in between > > 8 and 9 hours, unless you know the balance of your tank > > will not permit an > > algae growth beyond that. While you stated that, 12 > > hours per day was what > > you were told, as for the light requirements of your > > plants, I haven't seen > > you mention what kind of plants you have -- or how densely > > you have your > > tank planted with them. Please tell us what plants > > you have and how many of > > them. Even plants requiring more light need to first > > get established in > > order to take advantage of the amount of light you've been > > giving them. > > > > Cutting down on the light completely will not eliminate the > > problem, at > > least not in a safe way, and if it did, the problem will > > only return once > > you keep the lights on again. Amber's algae problem > > seemed to go away > > gradually > > -- but each tank is different -- and not everybody's > > suspended algae goes > > away spontaneously or by itself over time. The best > > and most recognized way > > to eliminate any algae is to have a sufficient amount of > > growing > > (established and rooted) plants that will out-compete the > > algae for food -- > > and this method almost always works provided there is a > > sufficient amount of > > plants to begin with (which I'm now tending to doubt), and > > providing the > > suspended algae has not been allowed to reach the point > > where it's cutting > > out the light needed by the plants. > > > > Doing partial water changes may only feed and stimulate the > > algae, depending > > on any amounts of plant nutrients that may be found in your > > water supply. > > This would lead to an even thicker algae bloom. > > Turning off the lights > > completely often can lead to a sudden crash of this algae > > population, > > killing most of it all at once, wherein an even larger > > bacterial bloom will > > take over > > -- feeding on all the dead algae -- and consuming most of > > the oxygen leading > > to a fish die-off. Clearing this up with partial > > water changes to save the > > balance of your fish will ensure the re-growth of new > > suspended algae as > > they will now feed on these nutrients with little to > > compete with them. > > Shutting down the lights will be detrimental to your > > plants. You need to > > get more plants and -- for now -- until you get the algae > > under control -- > > have the lights on for no more than 8 (9 at the very > > maximum) hours per day. > > The main thing is that you need more live plants. > > > > Under normal circumstances, the nitrogen cycle will see at > > least some > > production of nitrate if it is working properly -- which > > you should detect > > when testing for it. That you are not getting a > > reading for nitrate > > indicates it is being used (by the algae) as fast as it's > > being produced. > > Since you cut back on the feeding, and are keeping the > > nitrate production at > > a minimum, there is nothing further you can do besides > > starve it out. While > > we still need to know what plants and the amount of them > > that you have, I'd > > advise you add plants right now that are known > > plant-nutrient gobblers, even > > though you may not necessarily have planned on them. > > Get yourself several > > bunches of Hornwort, and treat it as though it's just a > > temporary measure in > > getting rid of this algae. In the meantime, as the > > algae clears, start > > adding more of the higher-light plants you said you already > > had some of, if > > this is what you prefer, and at the time they all become > > well established > > trade or give the Hornwort back to your LFS, unless you > > prefer to keep it. > > It still remains how high the light requirements really are > > for your > > existing plants, which is another thing I must question, as > > we don't know > > what plants you have. Ray > > > > > > P.S.: An ultra-violet filter will kill off this > > algae, which would then be > > needed to be cleaned up from the gravel as it falls dead, > > but this will not > > address the main issues. You need to get a good > > population of live plants > > going, preferably cutting down on the light duration if > > they permit it > > (depending on what plants you have), and more plants will > > permit a longer > > duration, although it (additional lighting duration) should > > not be required. > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 43865	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 10/15/2009
Subject: Re: OOPS re green water

Lets see... my first thoughts would be... http://images.veer.com/IMG/PILL/MAI/MAI0002683_P.JPG (maybe without the Parrot as an eye witness... lol... ;-)) It's good to hear you have a 30" x 12" footprint but you need to quit using the "depth" term for the front to back measurement, although that is a common term to use for measuring other physical items, for aquariums, because of the water, "depth" can easily be misconstrued to be the depth of the water. This is why the standard for aquarium measurement is L x W x H (Length by Width by Height). I know the "width" part can be confusing also since that would be the long sides of most aquarium where we commonly use the long sides as the length and the front to back measurement as the width. Don't ask me who invented this standard. LOL At least with the 30" x 12" footprint and only 23" tall and your tank is still based on the same footprint as a 20G but at least it's a 20G LONG footprint instead of a regular 20G footprint. It's also not nearly as tall as what you originally said was a 30" tall tank so this makes your lighting more practical... BUT... you still DO NOT need 5" to 7" of gravel. Still cut this back to 2" to 3". I do not recall if you ever listed details on your lighting other than saying you had two 65W fluorescent bulbs. Are they standard fluorescent bulbs... long single tubes with two pins on each end? Look on the bulbs for any item numbers, brand names, etc. and let us know. From what I can see on the net, it looks like you could either have 65W CFL's instead of standard fluorescent bulbs but they do also have a T-10 65W Fluorescent tube. While they are both called 65W (watt), the CFL's would put out 2-3 times more light (lumens) than standard fluorescent tubes. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Lainey Alexander Sent: Thursday, October 15, 2009 8:38 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] OOPS re green water I just realized that I completely goofed on these measurements (below), which is why everyone has been so adamant about my crazy tank shape! The height is 23, the WIDTH is 30 and the depth is 12. I'm so sorry to make everyone talk about something that was incorrect this whole time. But now, can you all let me know if this is a much more reasonable depth please? Does this change my bioload issues at all? Does it change the appropriateness of my lights? In five weeks several of my plants are near the top of the water, so I think they must be fairly happy with the light. My apologies for being careless. Lainey > > Tank measurements are 30 high, 23 wide and 12 deep. > > Fluorescent lights, 2 @65 watts and 6700k - on 12 and off 12 which is > what I have been told my plants require... > > I used Activ-Flora gravel, and this contains non-nitrogen fertilizer > plus "instant-cycling" bacteria > > Not dosing with any chemicals or ferts > > ***

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 43866	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 10/15/2009
Subject: Re: WAS: Green water continued NOW: Lighting Q's

Good to know, even though I only use the fluorescent's on 2 of my tanks, the rest have CFL bulbs. Thanks for letting me know :) Though I have no idea where I dispose of them on this island anyways, I'd have to call the local dump. Amber Steve Szabo wrote: > > > Amber, > > Any fluorescent bulb contains mercury, from the lowly shop lights to the > fanciest, most expensive, specialty lights. They all need to be > disposed of > properly, though most end up in the dumps across our land. > > \\Steve// > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On > Behalf Of Amber Berglund > Sent: Thursday, October 15, 2009 10:29 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] WAS: Green water continued NOW: Lighting Q's > > Lighting is a fuzzy grey area for some reason, all lighting companies > measure their light output in lumens and kelvin range (for their light > spectrum), but I've found it's not a very exact method to do it. So > every bulb can each be different in their light output but the company > can state they all have the same lumens or even Kelvin range. But to put > it honestly in what I have found out, HO or VHO are the cheaper way to > go for more light output if you don't want to use the more expensive > CFL's, LED's or metal halides (which are security lights for outside > lighting around your house, etc). Also aquatic plants typically prefer a > kelvin range of 6500-6700. > > So basically if you're looking for a better value with a decent light > output I would go with HO or VHO fluorescent bulbs, CFL bulbs are great > though if you want to spend a little bit more money as they last a lot > longer and they don't get weak as fast as fluorescents will (they slowly > get dimmer with age), CFL's tend to last longer all the way around IMO > and from personal experience. > Although if you break a CFL bulb you're NOT supposed to just throw it > away in the garbage, it is considered a hazardous substance and has to > be disposed of by a hazmat specialist. > Hope that helps, > Amber > > bill 1433 wrote: > > > > > > Since I have just had a go-around with plants and failed > > I am very interested in this line of discussion. > > > > In what started out in her aquarium at a depth of 30" I believe > > she mentioned the latest substrate put the plants at about 24-25 inches. > > > > Gentlemen, my question is for a method to figure power > > or over all light emission? Or in other words, is > > there a formula to pre-determine exactly how much light or light > > intensity she would need working at this depth? > > > > \\Steve// mentions HO or VHO fluorescents, > > or even the compact fluorescents. But which one is best? > > And again how much? > > > > Bill > > > > --- On Thu, 10/15/09, Steve Szabo <steve@... > <mailto:steve%40familyszabo.com> > > <mailto:steve%40familyszabo.com>> wrote: > > > > > From: Steve Szabo <steve@... > <mailto:steve%40familyszabo.com> > > <mailto:steve%40familyszabo.com>> > > > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: Green water continued > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > Date: Thursday, October 15, 2009, 8:10 PM > > > Lenny, > > > > > > She could go with HO or VHO fluorescents, or even the > > > compact fluorescents, > > > for the depth, which would be less expensive than the > > > halides or LED's you > > > mention. > > > > > > \\Steve// > > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] > > > On > > > Behalf Of Lenny V. aka GoldLenny > > > Sent: Thursday, October 15, 2009 1:52 PM > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: Green water continued > > > > > > Ray, > > > > > > What about the fact that she has a 37G TALL (30" tall) > > > tank? I'm not sure > > > standard fluorescent lighting will even reach down to > > > plants on the bottom > > > of this tank (since I've never had a tank this deep)... at > > > least not at the > > > light strength and spectrum needed for good plant > > > growth. This could also > > > be why the algae is taking over since it's in the water > > > column and therefore > > > able to be closer to the lighting. I believe one > > > would need more advanced > > > halogen or LED lighting that would be beam-type lighting to > > > pierce down to > > > the bottom in a deeper tank. I do not think normal > > > fluorescent, and > > > possibly even CFL's with the diffuser coating on the bulbs > > > would allow for a > > > light that would pierce down that deep.. unless it was > > > really a LOT of > > > wattage. > > > > > > Certainly the hornwort or anacharis type fast growing, > > > stalk plants that can > > > just be left floating would help to outcompete the algae > > > and also take > > > advantage of the lighting and extra CO2 from the surface > > > air. > > > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>> > > > (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed > > > on the right > > > side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives > > > by Year, Month) > > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] > > > On > > > Behalf Of sevenspringss@... > <mailto:sevenspringss%40wmconnect.com> > > <mailto:sevenspringss%40wmconnect.com> > > > Sent: Thursday, October 15, 2009 12:05 PM > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: Green water continued > > > > > > Lainey, With following this thread now for some time, > > > and seeing that > > > others have given you good advice on how to control this > > > suspended algae, if > > > in fact thats what you have (which still seems to be in > > > question at this > > > tim), I thought I'd jump in here as you don't seem to be > > > having much > > > success. > > > Know though, that if it is suspended algae, it will not be > > > going away > > > overnight > > > -- or or two or three nights. > > > > > > Looking back to Monday (at 8:38 PM), you said the water was > > > very green and > > > getting greener, and that you could clearly see that your > > > tank was getting > > > an algae bloom -- yet at 11:51 PM that same evening you > > > said you put some > > > water in a white bowl (which I believe turned out to be a > > > green bowl later), > > > and that you couldn't tell if the water was green or yellow > > > -- seemingly > > > having doubts that you had an algae problem. At this > > > point, I don't know if > > > this has yet been established, although it does appear to > > > me that's what you > > > have. > > > > > > As Lenny pointed out, normal/average tank illumination > > > should be in between > > > 8 and 9 hours, unless you know the balance of your tank > > > will not permit an > > > algae growth beyond that. While you stated that, 12 > > > hours per day was what > > > you were told, as for the light requirements of your > > > plants, I haven't seen > > > you mention what kind of plants you have -- or how densely > > > you have your > > > tank planted with them. Please tell us what plants > > > you have and how many of > > > them. Even plants requiring more light need to first > > > get established in > > > order to take advantage of the amount of light you've been > > > giving them. > > > > > > Cutting down on the light completely will not eliminate the > > > problem, at > > > least not in a safe way, and if it did, the problem will > > > only return once > > > you keep the lights on again. Amber's algae problem > > > seemed to go away > > > gradually > > > -- but each tank is different -- and not everybody's > > > suspended algae goes > > > away spontaneously or by itself over time. The best > > > and most recognized way > > > to eliminate any algae is to have a sufficient amount of > > > growing > > > (established and rooted) plants that will out-compete the > > > algae for food -- > > > and this method almost always works provided there is a > > > sufficient amount of > > > plants to begin with (which I'm now tending to doubt), and > > > providing the > > > suspended algae has not been allowed to reach the point > > > where it's cutting > > > out the light needed by the plants. > > > > > > Doing partial water changes may only feed and stimulate the > > > algae, depending > > > on any amounts of plant nutrients that may be found in your > > > water supply. > > > This would lead to an even thicker algae bloom. > > > Turning off the lights > > > completely often can lead to a sudden crash of this algae > > > population, > > > killing most of it all at once, wherein an even larger > > > bacterial bloom will > > > take over > > > -- feeding on all the dead algae -- and consuming most of > > > the oxygen leading > > > to a fish die-off. Clearing this up with partial > > > water changes to save the > > > balance of your fish will ensure the re-growth of new > > > suspended algae as > > > they will now feed on these nutrients with little to > > > compete with them. > > > Shutting down the lights will be detrimental to your > > > plants. You need to > > > get more plants and -- for now -- until you get the algae > > > under control -- > > > have the lights on for no more than 8 (9 at the very > > > maximum) hours per day. > > > The main thing is that you need more live plants. > > > > > > Under normal circumstances, the nitrogen cycle will see at > > > least some > > > production of nitrate if it is working properly -- which > > > you should detect > > > when testing for it. That you are not getting a > > > reading for nitrate > > > indicates it is being used (by the algae) as fast as it's > > > being produced. > > > Since you cut back on the feeding, and are keeping the > > > nitrate production at > > > a minimum, there is nothing further you can do besides > > > starve it out. While > > > we still need to know what plants and the amount of them > > > that you have, I'd > > > advise you add plants right now that are known > > > plant-nutrient gobblers, even > > > though you may not necessarily have planned on them. > > > Get yourself several > > > bunches of Hornwort, and treat it as though it's just a > > > temporary measure in > > > getting rid of this algae. In the meantime, as the > > > algae clears, start > > > adding more of the higher-light plants you said you already > > > had some of, if > > > this is what you prefer, and at the time they all become > > > well established > > > trade or give the Hornwort back to your LFS, unless you > > > prefer to keep it. > > > It still remains how high the light requirements really are > > > for your > > > existing plants, which is another thing I must question, as > > > we don't know > > > what plants you have. Ray > > > > > > > > > P.S.: An ultra-violet filter will kill off this > > > algae, which would then be > > > needed to be cleaned up from the gravel as it falls dead, > > > but this will not > > > address the main issues. You need to get a good > > > population of live plants > > > going, preferably cutting down on the light duration if > > > they permit it > > > (depending on what plants you have), and more plants will > > > permit a longer > > > duration, although it (additional lighting duration) should > > > not be required. > > > > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 43867	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 10/15/2009
Subject: Re: WAS: Green water continued NOW: Lighting Q's

Having the mercury end up in local dumps sounds like the ultimate in recycling to me... since mercury is a naturally occurring chemical/heavy metal and is mined from the earth in the first place... just like copper, nickel, gold, silver, etc... and nobody goes fruitcake if you throw away a copper pot/pan or accidentally throw away your piggy bank... but OMG... all them heavy metals going into the landfills. ARGGGGHHHHH!!!! We're all gonna die!!!! Oh wait.. all of them things are already in the earth in the first place and naturally leach into all of our waterways already. With all the stuff thrown away by consumers every day, which almost all ends up in our landfills, the mere fact that the guv'ment and the greenies pitch a fit about fluorescent bulbs needing special hazmat disposal is an outright utterly ridiculous pathetic joke to me. Here is Glenn Beck's take on the CFL hazmat-joke-of-a-policy by the EPA/DEQ. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R6VakfgEcP8 (watch pt. 2 also) LOL Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Amber Berglund Sent: Friday, October 16, 2009 1:16 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] WAS: Green water continued NOW: Lighting Q's Good to know, even though I only use the fluorescent's on 2 of my tanks, the rest have CFL bulbs. Thanks for letting me know :) Though I have no idea where I dispose of them on this island anyways, I'd have to call the local dump. Amber Steve Szabo wrote: > > > Amber, > > Any fluorescent bulb contains mercury, from the lowly shop lights to > the fanciest, most expensive, specialty lights. They all need to be > disposed of properly, though most end up in the dumps across our land. > > \\Steve// > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On Behalf Of Amber Berglund > Sent: Thursday, October 15, 2009 10:29 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] WAS: Green water continued NOW: Lighting > Q's > > Lighting is a fuzzy grey area for some reason, all lighting companies > measure their light output in lumens and kelvin range (for their light > spectrum), but I've found it's not a very exact method to do it. So > every bulb can each be different in their light output but the company > can state they all have the same lumens or even Kelvin range. But to > put it honestly in what I have found out, HO or VHO are the cheaper > way to go for more light output if you don't want to use the more > expensive CFL's, LED's or metal halides (which are security lights for > outside lighting around your house, etc). Also aquatic plants > typically prefer a kelvin range of 6500-6700. > > So basically if you're looking for a better value with a decent light > output I would go with HO or VHO fluorescent bulbs, CFL bulbs are > great though if you want to spend a little bit more money as they last > a lot longer and they don't get weak as fast as fluorescents will > (they slowly get dimmer with age), CFL's tend to last longer all the > way around IMO and from personal experience. > Although if you break a CFL bulb you're NOT supposed to just throw it > away in the garbage, it is considered a hazardous substance and has to > be disposed of by a hazmat specialist. > Hope that helps, > Amber > > bill 1433 wrote: > > > > > > Since I have just had a go-around with plants and failed I am very > > interested in this line of discussion. > > > > In what started out in her aquarium at a depth of 30" I believe she > > mentioned the latest substrate put the plants at about 24-25 inches. > > > > Gentlemen, my question is for a method to figure power or over all > > light emission? Or in other words, is there a formula to > > pre-determine exactly how much light or light intensity she would > > need working at this depth? > > > > \\Steve// mentions HO or VHO fluorescents, or even the compact > > fluorescents. But which one is best? > > And again how much? > > > > Bill > > > > --- On Thu, 10/15/09, Steve Szabo <steve@... > <mailto:steve%40familyszabo.com> > > <mailto:steve%40familyszabo.com>> wrote: > > > > > From: Steve Szabo <steve@... > <mailto:steve%40familyszabo.com> > > <mailto:steve%40familyszabo.com>> > > > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: Green water continued > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > Date: Thursday, October 15, 2009, 8:10 PM Lenny, > > > > > > She could go with HO or VHO fluorescents, or even the compact > > > fluorescents, for the depth, which would be less expensive than > > > the halides or LED's you mention. > > > > > > \\Steve// > > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] > > > On > > > Behalf Of Lenny V. aka GoldLenny > > > Sent: Thursday, October 15, 2009 1:52 PM > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: Green water continued > > > > > > Ray, > > > > > > What about the fact that she has a 37G TALL (30" tall) tank? I'm > > > not sure standard fluorescent lighting will even reach down to > > > plants on the bottom of this tank (since I've never had a tank > > > this deep)... at least not at the light strength and spectrum > > > needed for good plant growth. This could also be why the algae is > > > taking over since it's in the water column and therefore able to > > > be closer to the lighting. I believe one would need more advanced > > > halogen or LED lighting that would be beam-type lighting to pierce > > > down to the bottom in a deeper tank. I do not think normal > > > fluorescent, and possibly even CFL's with the diffuser coating on > > > the bulbs would allow for a light that would pierce down that > > > deep.. unless it was really a LOT of wattage. > > > > > > Certainly the hornwort or anacharis type fast growing, stalk > > > plants that can just be left floating would help to outcompete the > > > algae and also take advantage of the lighting and extra CO2 from > > > the surface air. > > > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>> > > > (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the > > > right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by > > > Year, Month) > > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] > > > On > > > Behalf Of sevenspringss@... > <mailto:sevenspringss%40wmconnect.com> > > <mailto:sevenspringss%40wmconnect.com> > > > Sent: Thursday, October 15, 2009 12:05 PM > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: Green water continued > > > > > > Lainey, With following this thread now for some time, and seeing > > > that others have given you good advice on how to control this > > > suspended algae, if in fact thats what you have (which still seems > > > to be in question at this tim), I thought I'd jump in here as you > > > don't seem to be having much success. > > > Know though, that if it is suspended algae, it will not be going > > > away overnight > > > -- or or two or three nights. > > > > > > Looking back to Monday (at 8:38 PM), you said the water was very > > > green and getting greener, and that you could clearly see that > > > your tank was getting an algae bloom -- yet at 11:51 PM that same > > > evening you said you put some water in a white bowl (which I > > > believe turned out to be a green bowl later), and that you > > > couldn't tell if the water was green or yellow > > > -- seemingly > > > having doubts that you had an algae problem. At this point, I > > > don't know if this has yet been established, although it does > > > appear to me that's what you have. > > > > > > As Lenny pointed out, normal/average tank illumination should be > > > in between > > > 8 and 9 hours, unless you know the balance of your tank will not > > > permit an algae growth beyond that. While you stated that, 12 > > > hours per day was what you were told, as for the light > > > requirements of your plants, I haven't seen you mention what kind > > > of plants you have -- or how densely you have your tank planted > > > with them. Please tell us what plants you have and how many of > > > them. Even plants requiring more light need to first get > > > established in order to take advantage of the amount of light > > > you've been giving them. > > > > > > Cutting down on the light completely will not eliminate the > > > problem, at least not in a safe way, and if it did, the problem > > > will only return once you keep the lights on again. Amber's algae > > > problem seemed to go away gradually > > > -- but each tank is different -- and not everybody's suspended > > > algae goes away spontaneously or by itself over time. The best and > > > most recognized way to eliminate any algae is to have a sufficient > > > amount of growing (established and rooted) plants that will > > > out-compete the algae for food -- and this method almost always > > > works provided there is a sufficient amount of plants to begin > > > with (which I'm now tending to doubt), and providing the suspended > > > algae has not been allowed to reach the point where it's cutting > > > out the light needed by the plants. > > > > > > Doing partial water changes may only feed and stimulate the algae, > > > depending on any amounts of plant nutrients that may be found in > > > your water supply. > > > This would lead to an even thicker algae bloom. > > > Turning off the lights > > > completely often can lead to a sudden crash of this algae > > > population, killing most of it all at once, wherein an even larger > > > bacterial bloom will take over > > > -- feeding on all the dead algae -- and consuming most of the > > > oxygen leading to a fish die-off. Clearing this up with partial > > > water changes to save the balance of your fish will ensure the > > > re-growth of new suspended algae as they will now feed on these > > > nutrients with little to compete with them. > > > Shutting down the lights will be detrimental to your plants. You > > > need to get more plants and -- for now -- until you get the algae > > > under control -- have the lights on for no more than 8 (9 at the > > > very > > > maximum) hours per day. > > > The main thing is that you need more live plants. > > > > > > Under normal circumstances, the nitrogen cycle will see at least > > > some production of nitrate if it is working properly -- which you > > > should detect when testing for it. That you are not getting a > > > reading for nitrate indicates it is being used (by the algae) as > > > fast as it's being produced. > > > Since you cut back on the feeding, and are keeping the nitrate > > > production at a minimum, there is nothing further you can do > > > besides starve it out. While we still need to know what plants and > > > the amount of them that you have, I'd advise you add plants right > > > now that are known plant-nutrient gobblers, even though you may > > > not necessarily have planned on them. > > > Get yourself several > > > bunches of Hornwort, and treat it as though it's just a temporary > > > measure in getting rid of this algae. In the meantime, as the > > > algae clears, start adding more of the higher-light plants you > > > said you already had some of, if this is what you prefer, and at > > > the time they all become well established trade or give the > > > Hornwort back to your LFS, unless you prefer to keep it. > > > It still remains how high the light requirements really are for > > > your existing plants, which is another thing I must question, as > > > we don't know what plants you have. Ray > > > > > > > > > P.S.: An ultra-violet filter will kill off this algae, which would > > > then be needed to be cleaned up from the gravel as it falls dead, > > > but this will not address the main issues. You need to get a good > > > population of live plants going, preferably cutting down on the > > > light duration if they permit it (depending on what plants you > > > have), and more plants will permit a longer duration, although it > > > (additional lighting duration) should not be required.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 43868	From: bill 1433	Date: 10/16/2009
Subject: Re: OOPS re green water

Hi Len, As you saw, I posted about lighting and received an answer from \\Steve//. But to be honest with you, what I really wanted to know was more along the lines of "Type". For instance, from this message you said: "but they do also have a T-10 65W Fluorescent tube. While they are both called 65W (watt), the CFL's would put out 2-3 times more light (lumens) than standard fluorescent tubes." First, who makes them? Second, what type or name? If you look in the latest issue of the Dr.'s Foster and Smith catalog on pages 4 thru 15 they have about every kind of light "fixture" you can think of. The question is also for the "tubes" themselves. You have 50/50, full-spectrum daylight, color enhancing, actinic, the list is almost never-ending. Do you see my point? Out of all of these, what kind of setup does the average aquarist needs to grow some plants and have some fun without putting a second mortgage on his home? Some of the fixtures and lighting setups cost hundred's of dollars and could easily out price the fish, aquarium and stands themselves. Bill --- On Fri, 10/16/09, Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@...> wrote: > From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@...> > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] OOPS re green water > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Date: Friday, October 16, 2009, 1:16 AM > Lets see... my first thoughts would > be... > > http://images.veer.com/IMG/PILL/MAI/MAI0002683_P.JPG > > (maybe without the Parrot as an eye witness... lol... ;-)) > > It's good to hear you have a 30" x 12" footprint but you > need to quit using > the "depth" term for the front to back measurement, > although that is a > common term to use for measuring other physical items, for > aquariums, > because of the water, "depth" can easily be misconstrued to > be the depth of > the water.  This is why the standard for aquarium > measurement is L x W x H > (Length by Width by Height).  I know the "width" part > can be confusing also > since that would be the long sides of most aquarium where > we commonly use > the long sides as the length and the front to back > measurement as the width. > Don't ask me who invented this standard. LOL > > At least with the 30" x 12" footprint and only 23" tall and > your tank is > still based on the same footprint as a 20G but at least > it's a 20G LONG > footprint instead of a regular 20G footprint.  It's > also not nearly as tall > as what you originally said was a 30" tall tank so this > makes your lighting > more practical... BUT... you still DO NOT need 5" to 7" of > gravel.  Still > cut this back to 2" to 3".  > > I do not recall if you ever listed details on your lighting > other than > saying you had two 65W fluorescent bulbs.  Are they > standard fluorescent > bulbs... long single tubes with two pins on each end?  > Look on the bulbs for > any item numbers, brand names, etc. and let us know.  > From what I can see on > the net, it looks like you could either have 65W CFL's > instead of standard > fluorescent bulbs but they do also have a T-10 65W > Fluorescent tube.  While > they are both called 65W (watt), the CFL's would put out > 2-3 times more > light (lumens) than standard fluorescent tubes. > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed > on the right > side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives > by Year, Month) > > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] > On > Behalf Of Lainey Alexander > Sent: Thursday, October 15, 2009 8:38 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Subject: [AquaticLife] OOPS re green water > > I just realized that I completely goofed on these > measurements (below), > which is why everyone has been so adamant about my crazy > tank shape! > > The height is 23, the WIDTH is 30 and the depth is 12. > > I'm so sorry to make everyone talk about something that was > incorrect this > whole time. But now, can you all let me know if this is a > much more > reasonable depth please? Does this change my bioload issues > at all? Does it > change the appropriateness of my lights? > > In five weeks several of my plants are near the top of the > water, so I think > they must be fairly happy with the light. > > My apologies for being careless. > > Lainey > > > > > Tank measurements are 30 high, 23 wide and 12 deep. > > > > Fluorescent lights, 2 @65 watts and 6700k - on 12 and > off 12 which is > > what I have been told my plants require... > > > > I used Activ-Flora gravel, and this contains > non-nitrogen fertilizer > > plus "instant-cycling" bacteria > > > > Not dosing with any chemicals or ferts > > > > *** > > > > ------------------------------------ > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when > replying, Thank You. > ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> > ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> > PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is > NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of > the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new > subject (was re: old subject)" <- > <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. > , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. > > If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of > unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by > clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the home page.  > > Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com > to receive the digest, which includes up to 25 posts at a > time in a single email > > Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com > for the No E-Mail option where you will still be able to > read messages on the group and post replies. > > Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com > to receive individual e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links > > >     mailto:AquaticLife-fullfeatured@yahoogroups.com > > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 43869	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 10/16/2009
Subject: Re: OOPS re green water

The short answer is that there is no short answer. People with planted tanks have success and failures with any and all kinds of different lighting mixes. I have standard Daylight fluorescent tubes on my 65G tank and the plants grow like crazy. I have the more expensive Plant Light fluorescent tube on my Cherry Shrimp tank and the plants in that one also grow well. Read what Amber stated in her earlier reply, as to what her research has shown to be the *best* type of plant lighting. Further, as detailed in one of the articles that I gave a link to in my earlier reply (not in this thread so I couldn't point it out to you again), there are dozens of light bulb manufacturers and many different types of bulbs with many different types of ratings. The latest trend seems to be towards Kelvin ratings and Lumens since Wattage can not be easily compared among the various light bulb types (Fluorescent Tubes, CFL's, HO, VHO, Halogen, LED, Metal Halide, etc.) and Wattage is not a proper indicator of the amount of light that is being given off anyhow. For example, a normal 60W incandescent light bulb can be replace by a 13W CFL (spirally bulb) that is supposed to put out the same amount of *light* (lumens) as the 60W incandescent bulb. The *experts*, today, seem to all point to the general spectrum (Kelvin rating) that Amber indicated... 6,700 Kelvin for aquatic plants although I'm sure there are some plants that will do fine with 10,000 and others that might do fine with more or less than that. Some folks mix their lighting with one tube being 10,000 and the other being 6,700, etc., etc. There are probably as many options for lighting a tank as there are options for the different types of fish and plants. I think \\Steve// said something to the effect that it comes down to trying different things until you find what works for you... although, if I was starting over, I'd probably go with what the *experts* are recommending *today* (since this could change *tomorrow*.. LOL). Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of bill 1433 Sent: Friday, October 16, 2009 10:30 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] OOPS re green water Hi Len, As you saw, I posted about lighting and received an answer from \\Steve//. But to be honest with you, what I really wanted to know was more along the lines of "Type". For instance, from this message you said: "but they do also have a T-10 65W Fluorescent tube. While they are both called 65W (watt), the CFL's would put out 2-3 times more light (lumens) than standard fluorescent tubes." First, who makes them? Second, what type or name? If you look in the latest issue of the Dr.'s Foster and Smith catalog on pages 4 thru 15 they have about every kind of light "fixture" you can think of. The question is also for the "tubes" themselves. You have 50/50, full-spectrum daylight, color enhancing, actinic, the list is almost never-ending. Do you see my point? Out of all of these, what kind of setup does the average aquarist needs to grow some plants and have some fun without putting a second mortgage on his home? Some of the fixtures and lighting setups cost hundred's of dollars and could easily out price the fish, aquarium and stands themselves. Bill --- On Fri, 10/16/09, Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@...> wrote: > From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@...> > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] OOPS re green water > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Date: Friday, October 16, 2009, 1:16 AM Lets see... my first thoughts > would be... > > http://images.veer.com/IMG/PILL/MAI/MAI0002683_P.JPG > > (maybe without the Parrot as an eye witness... lol... ;-)) > > It's good to hear you have a 30" x 12" footprint but you need to quit > using the "depth" term for the front to back measurement, although > that is a common term to use for measuring other physical items, for > aquariums, because of the water, "depth" can easily be misconstrued to > be the depth of the water.  This is why the standard for aquarium > measurement is L x W x H (Length by Width by Height).  I know the > "width" part can be confusing also since that would be the long sides > of most aquarium where we commonly use the long sides as the length > and the front to back measurement as the width. > Don't ask me who invented this standard. LOL > > At least with the 30" x 12" footprint and only 23" tall and your tank > is still based on the same footprint as a 20G but at least it's a 20G > LONG footprint instead of a regular 20G footprint.  It's also not > nearly as tall as what you originally said was a 30" tall tank so this > makes your lighting more practical... BUT... you still DO NOT need 5" > to 7" of gravel.  Still cut this back to 2" to 3". > > I do not recall if you ever listed details on your lighting other than > saying you had two 65W fluorescent bulbs.  Are they standard > fluorescent bulbs... long single tubes with two pins on each end? > Look on the bulbs for > any item numbers, brand names, etc. and let us know. From what I can > see on the net, it looks like you could either have 65W CFL's instead > of standard fluorescent bulbs but they do also have a T-10 65W > Fluorescent tube.  While they are both called 65W (watt), the CFL's > would put out > 2-3 times more > light (lumens) than standard fluorescent tubes. > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles > referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically > under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) > > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] > On > Behalf Of Lainey Alexander > Sent: Thursday, October 15, 2009 8:38 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Subject: [AquaticLife] OOPS re green water > > I just realized that I completely goofed on these > measurements (below), > which is why everyone has been so adamant about my crazy > tank shape! > > The height is 23, the WIDTH is 30 and the depth is 12. > > I'm so sorry to make everyone talk about something that was > incorrect this > whole time. But now, can you all let me know if this is a > much more > reasonable depth please? Does this change my bioload issues > at all? Does it > change the appropriateness of my lights? > > In five weeks several of my plants are near the top of the > water, so I think > they must be fairly happy with the light. > > My apologies for being careless. > > Lainey > > > > > Tank measurements are 30 high, 23 wide and 12 deep. > > > > Fluorescent lights, 2 @65 watts and 6700k - on 12 and > off 12 which is > > what I have been told my plants require... > > > > I used Activ-Flora gravel, and this contains > non-nitrogen fertilizer > > plus "instant-cycling" bacteria > > > > Not dosing with any chemicals or ferts > > > > ***

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 43870	From: Lainey Alexander	Date: 10/16/2009
Subject: Re: OOPS re green water

Lenny - As far as I know, I have regular standard fluorescents, they are the ones with the pins - 65 watts, two bulbs, 6700k each. Lainey http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com On Oct 16, 2009, at 1:16 AM, Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > Lets see... my first thoughts would be... > > http://images.veer.com/IMG/PILL/MAI/MAI0002683_P.JPG > > (maybe without the Parrot as an eye witness... lol... ;-)) > > It's good to hear you have a 30" x 12" footprint but you need to > quit using > the "depth" term for the front to back measurement, although that is a > common term to use for measuring other physical items, for aquariums, > because of the water, "depth" can easily be misconstrued to be the > depth of > the water. This is why the standard for aquarium measurement is L x > W x H > (Length by Width by Height). I know the "width" part can be > confusing also > since that would be the long sides of most aquarium where we > commonly use > the long sides as the length and the front to back measurement as > the width. > Don't ask me who invented this standard. LOL > > At least with the 30" x 12" footprint and only 23" tall and your > tank is > still based on the same footprint as a 20G but at least it's a 20G > LONG > footprint instead of a regular 20G footprint. It's also not nearly > as tall > as what you originally said was a 30" tall tank so this makes your > lighting > more practical... BUT... you still DO NOT need 5" to 7" of gravel. > Still > cut this back to 2" to 3". > > I do not recall if you ever listed details on your lighting other than > saying you had two 65W fluorescent bulbs. Are they standard > fluorescent > bulbs... long single tubes with two pins on each end? Look on the > bulbs for > any item numbers, brand names, etc. and let us know. From what I > can see on > the net, it looks like you could either have 65W CFL's instead of > standard > fluorescent bulbs but they do also have a T-10 65W Fluorescent > tube. While > they are both called 65W (watt), the CFL's would put out 2-3 times > more > light (lumens) than standard fluorescent tubes. > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the > right > side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, > Month) > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On > Behalf Of Lainey Alexander > Sent: Thursday, October 15, 2009 8:38 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Subject: [AquaticLife] OOPS re green water > > I just realized that I completely goofed on these measurements > (below), > which is why everyone has been so adamant about my crazy tank shape! > > The height is 23, the WIDTH is 30 and the depth is 12. > > I'm so sorry to make everyone talk about something that was > incorrect this > whole time. But now, can you all let me know if this is a much more > reasonable depth please? Does this change my bioload issues at all? > Does it > change the appropriateness of my lights? > > In five weeks several of my plants are near the top of the water, > so I think > they must be fairly happy with the light. > > My apologies for being careless. > > Lainey > > > > > Tank measurements are 30 high, 23 wide and 12 deep. > > > > Fluorescent lights, 2 @65 watts and 6700k - on 12 and off 12 > which is > > what I have been told my plants require... > > > > I used Activ-Flora gravel, and this contains non-nitrogen fertilizer > > plus "instant-cycling" bacteria > > > > Not dosing with any chemicals or ferts > > > > *** > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 43871	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 10/16/2009
Subject: Re: OOPS re green water

Um Bill I answered a few of those questions, did you see my post? You want full spectrum also called 6500 or 6700 Kelvin range, for aquatic plants. CFL's are the best value for your money, but the VHO fluorescents come in a decent 2nd best, and GE makes some decent ones I've heard. Amber bill 1433 wrote: > > > Hi Len, > > As you saw, I posted about lighting and received an answer > from \\Steve//. But to be honest with you, what I really wanted > to know was more along the lines of "Type". > > For instance, from this message you said: "but they do also have a > T-10 65W > Fluorescent tube. While they are both called 65W (watt), the CFL's > would put out > 2-3 times more light (lumens) than standard fluorescent tubes." > > First, who makes them? Second, what type or name? If you look in the > latest issue of the Dr.'s Foster and Smith catalog on pages 4 thru 15 > they have about every kind of light "fixture" you can think of. The > question is also for the "tubes" themselves. You have 50/50, > full-spectrum daylight, color enhancing, actinic, the list is almost > never-ending. > > Do you see my point? Out of all of these, what kind of setup does the > average aquarist needs to grow some plants and have some fun without > putting a second mortgage on his home? Some of the fixtures and > lighting setups cost hundred's of dollars and could easily out price > the fish, aquarium and stands themselves. > > Bill > > --- On Fri, 10/16/09, Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@... > <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com>> wrote: > > > From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@... > <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com>> > > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] OOPS re green water > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > Date: Friday, October 16, 2009, 1:16 AM > > Lets see... my first thoughts would > > be... > > > > http://images.veer.com/IMG/PILL/MAI/MAI0002683_P.JPG > <http://images.veer.com/IMG/PILL/MAI/MAI0002683_P.JPG> > > > > (maybe without the Parrot as an eye witness... lol... ;-)) > > > > It's good to hear you have a 30" x 12" footprint but you > > need to quit using > > the "depth" term for the front to back measurement, > > although that is a > > common term to use for measuring other physical items, for > > aquariums, > > because of the water, "depth" can easily be misconstrued to > > be the depth of > > the water. This is why the standard for aquarium > > measurement is L x W x H > > (Length by Width by Height). I know the "width" part > > can be confusing also > > since that would be the long sides of most aquarium where > > we commonly use > > the long sides as the length and the front to back > > measurement as the width. > > Don't ask me who invented this standard. LOL > > > > At least with the 30" x 12" footprint and only 23" tall and > > your tank is > > still based on the same footprint as a 20G but at least > > it's a 20G LONG > > footprint instead of a regular 20G footprint. It's > > also not nearly as tall > > as what you originally said was a 30" tall tank so this > > makes your lighting > > more practical... BUT... you still DO NOT need 5" to 7" of > > gravel. Still > > cut this back to 2" to 3". > > > > I do not recall if you ever listed details on your lighting > > other than > > saying you had two 65W fluorescent bulbs. Are they > > standard fluorescent > > bulbs... long single tubes with two pins on each end? > > Look on the bulbs for > > any item numbers, brand names, etc. and let us know. > > From what I can see on > > the net, it looks like you could either have 65W CFL's > > instead of standard > > fluorescent bulbs but they do also have a T-10 65W > > Fluorescent tube. While > > they are both called 65W (watt), the CFL's would put out > > 2-3 times more > > light (lumens) than standard fluorescent tubes. > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed > > on the right > > side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives > > by Year, Month) > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] > > On > > Behalf Of Lainey Alexander > > Sent: Thursday, October 15, 2009 8:38 PM > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > Subject: [AquaticLife] OOPS re green water > > > > I just realized that I completely goofed on these > > measurements (below), > > which is why everyone has been so adamant about my crazy > > tank shape! > > > > The height is 23, the WIDTH is 30 and the depth is 12. > > > > I'm so sorry to make everyone talk about something that was > > incorrect this > > whole time. But now, can you all let me know if this is a > > much more > > reasonable depth please? Does this change my bioload issues > > at all? Does it > > change the appropriateness of my lights? > > > > In five weeks several of my plants are near the top of the > > water, so I think > > they must be fairly happy with the light. > > > > My apologies for being careless. > > > > Lainey > > > > > > > > Tank measurements are 30 high, 23 wide and 12 deep. > > > > > > Fluorescent lights, 2 @65 watts and 6700k - on 12 and > > off 12 which is > > > what I have been told my plants require... > > > > > > I used Activ-Flora gravel, and this contains > > non-nitrogen fertilizer > > > plus "instant-cycling" bacteria > > > > > > Not dosing with any chemicals or ferts > > > > > > *** > > > > > > > > ------------------------------------ > > > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when > > replying, Thank You. > > ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> > > ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> > > PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is > > NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of > > the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new > > subject (was re: old subject)" <- > > <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. > > , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. > > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. > > > > If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of > > unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by > > clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the home page. > > > > Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:aquaticlife-digest%40yahoogroups.com> > > to receive the digest, which includes up to 25 posts at a > > time in a single email > > > > Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:aquaticlife-nomail%40yahoogroups.com> > > for the No E-Mail option where you will still be able to > > read messages on the group and post replies. > > > > Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:aquaticlife-normal%40yahoogroups.com> > > to receive individual e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > mailto:AquaticLife-fullfeatured@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife-fullfeatured%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 43872	From: bill 1433	Date: 10/16/2009
Subject: The T-5 Business Len/Amber?

I'm sorry, I suppose I should have put all of this another way. Think of it as what goes to what (watt). <g> What I am trying to say is that I was of the opinion that if you wanted to move up to a T-5 or better tube then you had better have a fixture for it but from reading on, it seems that you CAN use a different tube provided that, first the fixture excepts the pin alignment of that tube and second that the tube or tubes does not exceed the given wattage of the ballast of the fixture itself. Does any of this makes sense or am I all messed up again? Can somebody turn on a light, please? Bill

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 43873	From: bill 1433	Date: 10/16/2009
Subject: Re: OOPS re green water

Thanks Amber, Yes, saw post and promptly lost it! What are ya gonna do------it happens to the best of us. Going over to group to search for it. Hang on though, more questions to follow. Money, Money, what I am trying to do is increase light out put of a all-glass hood from a little 17 watt tube at 24" to something that will fit into this fixture and give me more light. In other words, I know where I'm going--------I just don't know how to get there! Thanks Bill --- On Fri, 10/16/09, Amber Berglund <arberglund@...> wrote: > From: Amber Berglund <arberglund@...> > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] OOPS re green water > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Date: Friday, October 16, 2009, 2:04 PM > Um Bill I answered a few of those > questions, did you see my post? > You want full spectrum also called 6500 or 6700 Kelvin > range, for > aquatic plants. > CFL's are the best value for your money, but the VHO > fluorescents come > in a decent 2nd best, and GE makes some decent ones I've > heard. > > Amber > > bill 1433 wrote: > >  > > > > Hi Len, > > > > As you saw, I posted about lighting and received an > answer > > from \\Steve//. But to be honest with you, what I > really wanted > > to know was more along the lines of "Type". > > > > For instance, from this message you said: "but they do > also have a > > T-10 65W > > Fluorescent tube. While they are both called 65W > (watt), the CFL's > > would put out > > 2-3 times more light (lumens) than standard > fluorescent tubes." > > > > First, who makes them? Second, what type or name? If > you look in the > > latest issue of the Dr.'s Foster and Smith catalog on > pages 4 thru 15 > > they have about every kind of light "fixture" you can > think of. The > > question is also for the "tubes" themselves. You have > 50/50, > > full-spectrum daylight, color enhancing, actinic, the > list is almost > > never-ending. > > > > Do you see my point? Out of all of these, what kind of > setup does the > > average aquarist needs to grow some plants and have > some fun without > > putting a second mortgage on his home? Some of the > fixtures and > > lighting setups cost hundred's of dollars and could > easily out price > > the fish, aquarium and stands themselves. > > > > Bill > > > > --- On Fri, 10/16/09, Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@... > > > <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com>> wrote: > > > > > From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@... > > > <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com>> > > > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] OOPS re green water > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > Date: Friday, October 16, 2009, 1:16 AM > > > Lets see... my first thoughts would > > > be... > > > > > > http://images.veer.com/IMG/PILL/MAI/MAI0002683_P.JPG > > <http://images.veer.com/IMG/PILL/MAI/MAI0002683_P.JPG> > > > > > > (maybe without the Parrot as an eye witness... > lol... ;-)) > > > > > > It's good to hear you have a 30" x 12" footprint > but you > > > need to quit using > > > the "depth" term for the front to back > measurement, > > > although that is a > > > common term to use for measuring other physical > items, for > > > aquariums, > > > because of the water, "depth" can easily be > misconstrued to > > > be the depth of > > > the water.  This is why the standard for > aquarium > > > measurement is L x W x H > > > (Length by Width by Height).  I know the > "width" part > > > can be confusing also > > > since that would be the long sides of most > aquarium where > > > we commonly use > > > the long sides as the length and the front to > back > > > measurement as the width. > > > Don't ask me who invented this standard. LOL > > > > > > At least with the 30" x 12" footprint and only > 23" tall and > > > your tank is > > > still based on the same footprint as a 20G but at > least > > > it's a 20G LONG > > > footprint instead of a regular 20G > footprint.  It's > > > also not nearly as tall > > > as what you originally said was a 30" tall tank > so this > > > makes your lighting > > > more practical... BUT... you still DO NOT need 5" > to 7" of > > > gravel.  Still > > > cut this back to 2" to 3". > > > > > > I do not recall if you ever listed details on > your lighting > > > other than > > > saying you had two 65W fluorescent bulbs.  > Are they > > > standard fluorescent > > > bulbs... long single tubes with two pins on each > end? > > > Look on the bulbs for > > > any item numbers, brand names, etc. and let us > know. > > > From what I can see on > > > the net, it looks like you could either have 65W > CFL's > > > instead of standard > > > fluorescent bulbs but they do also have a T-10 > 65W > > > Fluorescent tube.  While > > > they are both called 65W (watt), the CFL's would > put out > > > 2-3 times more > > > light (lumens) than standard fluorescent tubes. > > > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > (Links to any articles referenced in above reply > are listed > > > on the right > > > side, alphabetically under Labels and also under > Archives > > > by Year, Month) > > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] > > > On > > > Behalf Of Lainey Alexander > > > Sent: Thursday, October 15, 2009 8:38 PM > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > Subject: [AquaticLife] OOPS re green water > > > > > > I just realized that I completely goofed on > these > > > measurements (below), > > > which is why everyone has been so adamant about > my crazy > > > tank shape! > > > > > > The height is 23, the WIDTH is 30 and the depth > is 12. > > > > > > I'm so sorry to make everyone talk about > something that was > > > incorrect this > > > whole time. But now, can you all let me know if > this is a > > > much more > > > reasonable depth please? Does this change my > bioload issues > > > at all? Does it > > > change the appropriateness of my lights? > > > > > > In five weeks several of my plants are near the > top of the > > > water, so I think > > > they must be fairly happy with the light. > > > > > > My apologies for being careless. > > > > > > Lainey > > > > > > > > > > > Tank measurements are 30 high, 23 wide and > 12 deep. > > > > > > > > Fluorescent lights, 2 @65 watts and 6700k - > on 12 and > > > off 12 which is > > > > what I have been told my plants require... > > > > > > > > I used Activ-Flora gravel, and this > contains > > > non-nitrogen fertilizer > > > > plus "instant-cycling" bacteria > > > > > > > > Not dosing with any chemicals or ferts > > > > > > > > *** > > > > > > > > > > > > ------------------------------------ > > > > > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it > when > > > replying, Thank You. > > > > ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> > > > ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , > .·´¯`·..><((((º> > > > PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT > that is > > > NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the > TOPIC of > > > the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE > -> i.e. "new > > > subject (was re: old subject)" <- > > > > <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. > > > , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. > > > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this > matter. > > > > > > If you do not want all of the groups emails, > instead of > > > unsubscribing, you can change your delivery > option by > > > clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the home > page. > > > > > > Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com > > > <mailto:aquaticlife-digest%40yahoogroups.com> > > > to receive the digest, which includes up to 25 > posts at a > > > time in a single email > > > > > > Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com > > > <mailto:aquaticlife-nomail%40yahoogroups.com> > > > for the No E-Mail option where you will still be > able to > > > read messages on the group and post replies. > > > > > > Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com > > > <mailto:aquaticlife-normal%40yahoogroups.com> > > > to receive individual e-mails.Yahoo! Groups > Links > > > > > > > > >     mailto:AquaticLife-fullfeatured@yahoogroups.com > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife-fullfeatured%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ------------------------------------ > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when > replying, Thank You. > ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> > ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> > PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is > NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of > the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new > subject (was re: old subject)" <- > <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. > , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. > > If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of > unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by > clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the home page.  > > Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com > to receive the digest, which includes up to 25 posts at a > time in a single email > > Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com > for the No E-Mail option where you will still be able to > read messages on the group and post replies. > > Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com > to receive individual e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links > > >     mailto:AquaticLife-fullfeatured@yahoogroups.com > > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 43874	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 10/16/2009
Subject: Re: OOPS re green water

Long straight tubes with pins on each end? Many other bulbs also have pins but CFL's only have them on one end and the tube usually makes a U-turn and comes back to the same fitting. They should have a brand and item number on them... or something else... but they are probably just standard fluorescent tubes. You would have to turn the fixture over and look at the bulbs... maybe even removing one to look for the writing on the glass on one end of the tube. It might/should even have a T-__ code which is a standard coding now for fluorescent tubes. You need to know this information as, depending on the brand/type/etc., you might have to replace these bulbs every six months or so. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Lainey Alexander Sent: Friday, October 16, 2009 10:17 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] OOPS re green water Lenny - As far as I know, I have regular standard fluorescents, they are the ones with the pins - 65 watts, two bulbs, 6700k each. Lainey http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com On Oct 16, 2009, at 1:16 AM, Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > Lets see... my first thoughts would be... > > http://images.veer.com/IMG/PILL/MAI/MAI0002683_P.JPG > > (maybe without the Parrot as an eye witness... lol... ;-)) > > It's good to hear you have a 30" x 12" footprint but you need to quit > using the "depth" term for the front to back measurement, although > that is a common term to use for measuring other physical items, for > aquariums, because of the water, "depth" can easily be misconstrued to > be the depth of the water. This is why the standard for aquarium > measurement is L x W x H (Length by Width by Height). I know the > "width" part can be confusing also since that would be the long sides > of most aquarium where we commonly use the long sides as the length > and the front to back measurement as the width. > Don't ask me who invented this standard. LOL > > At least with the 30" x 12" footprint and only 23" tall and your tank > is still based on the same footprint as a 20G but at least it's a 20G > LONG footprint instead of a regular 20G footprint. It's also not > nearly as tall as what you originally said was a 30" tall tank so this > makes your lighting more practical... BUT... you still DO NOT need 5" > to 7" of gravel. > Still > cut this back to 2" to 3". > > I do not recall if you ever listed details on your lighting other than > saying you had two 65W fluorescent bulbs. Are they standard > fluorescent bulbs... long single tubes with two pins on each end? Look > on the bulbs for any item numbers, brand names, etc. and let us know. > From what I can see on the net, it looks like you could either have > 65W CFL's instead of standard fluorescent bulbs but they do also have > a T-10 65W Fluorescent tube. While they are both called 65W (watt), > the CFL's would put out 2-3 times more light (lumens) than standard > fluorescent tubes. > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles > referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically > under Labels and also under Archives by Year, > Month) > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Lainey Alexander > Sent: Thursday, October 15, 2009 8:38 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Subject: [AquaticLife] OOPS re green water > > I just realized that I completely goofed on these measurements > (below), which is why everyone has been so adamant about my crazy tank > shape! > > The height is 23, the WIDTH is 30 and the depth is 12. > > I'm so sorry to make everyone talk about something that was incorrect > this whole time. But now, can you all let me know if this is a much > more reasonable depth please? Does this change my bioload issues at > all? > Does it > change the appropriateness of my lights? > > In five weeks several of my plants are near the top of the water, so I > think they must be fairly happy with the light. > > My apologies for being careless. > > Lainey > > > > > Tank measurements are 30 high, 23 wide and 12 deep. > > > > Fluorescent lights, 2 @65 watts and 6700k - on 12 and off 12 > which is > > what I have been told my plants require... > > > > I used Activ-Flora gravel, and this contains non-nitrogen fertilizer > > plus "instant-cycling" bacteria > > > > Not dosing with any chemicals or ferts > > > > ***

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 43875	From: bill 1433	Date: 10/16/2009
Subject: Re: OOPS re green water

Standard ----------well maybe! The tube I have has two pins on each end just like a 48" standard shop light only thinner. They come in at 17 watts, that is stamped on the tube. Bill --- On Fri, 10/16/09, Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@...> wrote: > From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@...> > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] OOPS re green water > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Date: Friday, October 16, 2009, 2:37 PM > Long straight tubes with pins on each > end?  Many other bulbs also have pins > but CFL's only have them on one end and the tube usually > makes a U-turn and > comes back to the same fitting.  They should have a > brand and item number on > them... or something else... but they are probably just > standard fluorescent > tubes.  You would have to turn the fixture over and > look at the bulbs... > maybe even removing one to look for the writing on the > glass on one end of > the tube.  It might/should even have a T-__ code which > is a standard coding > now for fluorescent tubes. > > You need to know this information as, depending on the > brand/type/etc., you > might have to replace these bulbs every six months or so. > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed > on the right > side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives > by Year, Month) > > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] > On > Behalf Of Lainey Alexander > Sent: Friday, October 16, 2009 10:17 AM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] OOPS re green water > > Lenny - > > As far as I know, I have regular standard fluorescents, > they are the ones > with the pins - 65 watts, two bulbs, 6700k each. > > Lainey > http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com > > On Oct 16, 2009, at 1:16 AM, Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > > > Lets see... my first thoughts would be... > > > > http://images.veer.com/IMG/PILL/MAI/MAI0002683_P.JPG > > > > (maybe without the Parrot as an eye witness... lol... > ;-)) > > > > It's good to hear you have a 30" x 12" footprint but > you need to quit > > using the "depth" term for the front to back > measurement, although > > that is a common term to use for measuring other > physical items, for > > aquariums, because of the water, "depth" can easily be > misconstrued to > > be the depth of the water. This is why the standard > for aquarium > > measurement is L x W x H (Length by Width by Height). > I know the > > "width" part can be confusing also since that would be > the long sides > > of most aquarium where we commonly use the long sides > as the length > > and the front to back measurement as the width. > > Don't ask me who invented this standard. LOL > > > > At least with the 30" x 12" footprint and only 23" > tall and your tank > > is still based on the same footprint as a 20G but at > least it's a 20G > > LONG footprint instead of a regular 20G footprint. > It's also not > > nearly as tall as what you originally said was a 30" > tall tank so this > > makes your lighting more practical... BUT... you still > DO NOT need 5" > > to 7" of gravel. > > Still > > cut this back to 2" to 3". > > > > I do not recall if you ever listed details on your > lighting other than > > saying you had two 65W fluorescent bulbs. Are they > standard > > fluorescent bulbs... long single tubes with two pins > on each end? Look > > on the bulbs for any item numbers, brand names, etc. > and let us know. > > From what I can see on the net, it looks like you > could either have > > 65W CFL's instead of standard fluorescent bulbs but > they do also have > > a T-10 65W Fluorescent tube. While they are both > called 65W (watt), > > the CFL's would put out 2-3 times more light (lumens) > than standard > > fluorescent tubes. > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to > any articles > > referenced in above reply are listed on the right > side, alphabetically > > under Labels and also under Archives by Year, > > Month) > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] > On Behalf Of Lainey Alexander > > Sent: Thursday, October 15, 2009 8:38 PM > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > Subject: [AquaticLife] OOPS re green water > > > > I just realized that I completely goofed on these > measurements > > (below), which is why everyone has been so adamant > about my crazy tank > > shape! > > > > The height is 23, the WIDTH is 30 and the depth is > 12. > > > > I'm so sorry to make everyone talk about something > that was incorrect > > this whole time. But now, can you all let me know if > this is a much > > more reasonable depth please? Does this change my > bioload issues at > > all? > > Does it > > change the appropriateness of my lights? > > > > In five weeks several of my plants are near the top of > the water, so I > > think they must be fairly happy with the light. > > > > My apologies for being careless. > > > > Lainey > > > > > > > > Tank measurements are 30 high, 23 wide and 12 > deep. > > > > > > Fluorescent lights, 2 @65 watts and 6700k - on 12 > and off 12 > > which is > > > what I have been told my plants require... > > > > > > I used Activ-Flora gravel, and this contains > non-nitrogen fertilizer > > > plus "instant-cycling" bacteria > > > > > > Not dosing with any chemicals or ferts > > > > > > *** > > > > ------------------------------------ > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when > replying, Thank You. > ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> > ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> > PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is > NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of > the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new > subject (was re: old subject)" <- > <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. > , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. > > If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of > unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by > clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the home page.  > > Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com > to receive the digest, which includes up to 25 posts at a > time in a single email > > Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com > for the No E-Mail option where you will still be able to > read messages on the group and post replies. > > Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com > to receive individual e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links > > >     mailto:AquaticLife-fullfeatured@yahoogroups.com > > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 43876	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 10/16/2009
Subject: Re: OOPS re green water

Do you have a Wally-World nearby? A SuperCenter is even better and they have a nice big selection of light bulbs. You could bring your current fixture with you and try out other bulbs to see if they fit... maybe even find a nearby plug to test them. ;-) You'll probably have to upgrade your fixture though if you want to make much of a change... at least that's my initial thoughts. I'm sure if there was an easy way to upgrade lighting, I would have seen it posted in one of the forums. There are online sites that sell DIY retrofit kits for upgrading some fixtures though. Here's one that I have in my favorites. http://www.ahsupply.com/ They have a single 18W CFL kit (which would put out 2-3 times more lumens than your current fluorescent bulb) which includes an 18W 6700K CFL bulb, reflector, ballast, power cord, etc.... everything for someone to build their own light fixture inside their own wooden box... for $39.99. http://ahsupply.com/mcart/index.cgi?code=3&cat=10 Here's another simple article about lighting in general and compares some of the types of bulbs. http://woo.gotdns.com/Aquarium/Lighting.htm You can do a Google of DIY Aquarium Lighting Retrofit to find more sites to look over for more info. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of bill 1433 Sent: Friday, October 16, 2009 1:38 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] OOPS re green water Thanks Amber, Yes, saw post and promptly lost it! What are ya gonna do------it happens to the best of us. Going over to group to search for it. Hang on though, more questions to follow. Money, Money, what I am trying to do is increase light out put of a all-glass hood from a little 17 watt tube at 24" to something that will fit into this fixture and give me more light. In other words, I know where I'm going--------I just don't know how to get there! Thanks Bill --- On Fri, 10/16/09, Amber Berglund <arberglund@...> wrote: > From: Amber Berglund <arberglund@...> > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] OOPS re green water > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Date: Friday, October 16, 2009, 2:04 PM Um Bill I answered a few of > those questions, did you see my post? > You want full spectrum also called 6500 or 6700 Kelvin range, for > aquatic plants. > CFL's are the best value for your money, but the VHO fluorescents come > in a decent 2nd best, and GE makes some decent ones I've heard. > > Amber > > bill 1433 wrote: > >  > > > > Hi Len, > > > > As you saw, I posted about lighting and received an > answer > > from \\Steve//. But to be honest with you, what I > really wanted > > to know was more along the lines of "Type". > > > > For instance, from this message you said: "but they do > also have a > > T-10 65W > > Fluorescent tube. While they are both called 65W > (watt), the CFL's > > would put out > > 2-3 times more light (lumens) than standard > fluorescent tubes." > > > > First, who makes them? Second, what type or name? If > you look in the > > latest issue of the Dr.'s Foster and Smith catalog on > pages 4 thru 15 > > they have about every kind of light "fixture" you can > think of. The > > question is also for the "tubes" themselves. You have > 50/50, > > full-spectrum daylight, color enhancing, actinic, the > list is almost > > never-ending. > > > > Do you see my point? Out of all of these, what kind of > setup does the > > average aquarist needs to grow some plants and have > some fun without > > putting a second mortgage on his home? Some of the > fixtures and > > lighting setups cost hundred's of dollars and could > easily out price > > the fish, aquarium and stands themselves. > > > > Bill > > > > --- On Fri, 10/16/09, Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@... > > > <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com>> wrote: > > > > > From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@... > > > <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com>> > > > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] OOPS re green water > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > Date: Friday, October 16, 2009, 1:16 AM Lets see... my first > > > thoughts would be... > > > > > > http://images.veer.com/IMG/PILL/MAI/MAI0002683_P.JPG > > <http://images.veer.com/IMG/PILL/MAI/MAI0002683_P.JPG> > > > > > > (maybe without the Parrot as an eye witness... > lol... ;-)) > > > > > > It's good to hear you have a 30" x 12" footprint > but you > > > need to quit using > > > the "depth" term for the front to back > measurement, > > > although that is a > > > common term to use for measuring other physical > items, for > > > aquariums, > > > because of the water, "depth" can easily be > misconstrued to > > > be the depth of > > > the water.  This is why the standard for > aquarium > > > measurement is L x W x H > > > (Length by Width by Height).  I know the > "width" part > > > can be confusing also > > > since that would be the long sides of most > aquarium where > > > we commonly use > > > the long sides as the length and the front to > back > > > measurement as the width. > > > Don't ask me who invented this standard. LOL > > > > > > At least with the 30" x 12" footprint and only > 23" tall and > > > your tank is > > > still based on the same footprint as a 20G but at > least > > > it's a 20G LONG > > > footprint instead of a regular 20G > footprint.  It's > > > also not nearly as tall > > > as what you originally said was a 30" tall tank > so this > > > makes your lighting > > > more practical... BUT... you still DO NOT need 5" > to 7" of > > > gravel.  Still > > > cut this back to 2" to 3". > > > > > > I do not recall if you ever listed details on > your lighting > > > other than > > > saying you had two 65W fluorescent bulbs. > Are they > > > standard fluorescent > > > bulbs... long single tubes with two pins on each > end? > > > Look on the bulbs for > > > any item numbers, brand names, etc. and let us > know. > > > From what I can see on > > > the net, it looks like you could either have 65W > CFL's > > > instead of standard > > > fluorescent bulbs but they do also have a T-10 > 65W > > > Fluorescent tube.  While > > > they are both called 65W (watt), the CFL's would > put out > > > 2-3 times more > > > light (lumens) than standard fluorescent tubes. > > > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > (Links to any articles referenced in above reply > are listed > > > on the right > > > side, alphabetically under Labels and also under > Archives > > > by Year, Month) > > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] > > > On > > > Behalf Of Lainey Alexander > > > Sent: Thursday, October 15, 2009 8:38 PM > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > Subject: [AquaticLife] OOPS re green water > > > > > > I just realized that I completely goofed on > these > > > measurements (below), > > > which is why everyone has been so adamant about > my crazy > > > tank shape! > > > > > > The height is 23, the WIDTH is 30 and the depth > is 12. > > > > > > I'm so sorry to make everyone talk about > something that was > > > incorrect this > > > whole time. But now, can you all let me know if > this is a > > > much more > > > reasonable depth please? Does this change my > bioload issues > > > at all? Does it > > > change the appropriateness of my lights? > > > > > > In five weeks several of my plants are near the > top of the > > > water, so I think > > > they must be fairly happy with the light. > > > > > > My apologies for being careless. > > > > > > Lainey > > > > > > > > > > > Tank measurements are 30 high, 23 wide and > 12 deep. > > > > > > > > Fluorescent lights, 2 @65 watts and 6700k - > on 12 and > > > off 12 which is > > > > what I have been told my plants require... > > > > > > > > I used Activ-Flora gravel, and this > contains > > > non-nitrogen fertilizer > > > > plus "instant-cycling" bacteria > > > > > > > > Not dosing with any chemicals or ferts > > > > > > > > *** > > > > > > > > > > > > ------------------------------------ > > > > > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it > when > > > replying, Thank You. > > > > ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> > > > ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , > .·´¯`·..><((((º> > > > PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT > that is > > > NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the > TOPIC of > > > the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE > -> i.e. "new > > > subject (was re: old subject)" <- > > > > <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. > > > , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. > > > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this > matter. > > > > > > If you do not want all of the groups emails, > instead of > > > unsubscribing, you can change your delivery > option by > > > clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the home > page. > > > > > > Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com > > > <mailto:aquaticlife-digest%40yahoogroups.com> > > > to receive the digest, which includes up to 25 > posts at a > > > time in a single email > > > > > > Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com > > > <mailto:aquaticlife-nomail%40yahoogroups.com> > > > for the No E-Mail option where you will still be > able to > > > read messages on the group and post replies. > > > > > > Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com > > > <mailto:aquaticlife-normal%40yahoogroups.com> > > > to receive individual e-mails.Yahoo! Groups > Links > > > > > > > > >     mailto:AquaticLife-fullfeatured@yahoogroups.com > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife-fullfeatured%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ------------------------------------ > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank > You. > ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> > ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> > PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT > important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message > MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- > <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. > , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. > > If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of unsubscribing, > you can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My > Membership" on the home page. > > Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com > to receive the digest, which includes up to 25 posts at a time in a > single email > > Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com > for the No E-Mail option where you will still be able to read messages > on the group and post replies. > > Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com > to receive individual e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links > > >     mailto:AquaticLife-fullfeatured@yahoogroups.com > > > ------------------------------------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the home page. Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com to receive the digest, which includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com for the No E-Mail option where you will still be able to read messages on the group and post replies. Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com to receive individual e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 43877	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 10/16/2009
Subject: Re: OOPS re green water

Bill, I was answering Lainey. I think you have another thread going with your questions and I know I just sent you a reply a few minutes ago. But Bill, I think you may have a T-8 17W 24" long bulb... right? It should have more writing on the tube, such as the T-__ number and the manufacturer.. unless it was some off-brand generic type bulb. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of bill 1433 Sent: Friday, October 16, 2009 2:18 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] OOPS re green water Standard ----------well maybe! The tube I have has two pins on each end just like a 48" standard shop light only thinner. They come in at 17 watts, that is stamped on the tube. Bill --- On Fri, 10/16/09, Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@...> wrote: > From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@...> > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] OOPS re green water > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Date: Friday, October 16, 2009, 2:37 PM Long straight tubes with pins > on each end?  Many other bulbs also have pins but CFL's only have them > on one end and the tube usually makes a U-turn and comes back to the > same fitting.  They should have a brand and item number on them... or > something else... but they are probably just standard fluorescent > tubes.  You would have to turn the fixture over and look at the > bulbs... > maybe even removing one to look for the writing on the glass on one > end of the tube.  It might/should even have a T-__ code which is a > standard coding now for fluorescent tubes. > > You need to know this information as, depending on the > brand/type/etc., you might have to replace these bulbs every six > months or so. > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles > referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically > under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) > > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] > On > Behalf Of Lainey Alexander > Sent: Friday, October 16, 2009 10:17 AM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] OOPS re green water > > Lenny - > > As far as I know, I have regular standard fluorescents, > they are the ones > with the pins - 65 watts, two bulbs, 6700k each. > > Lainey > http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com > > On Oct 16, 2009, at 1:16 AM, Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > > > Lets see... my first thoughts would be... > > > > http://images.veer.com/IMG/PILL/MAI/MAI0002683_P.JPG > > > > (maybe without the Parrot as an eye witness... lol... > ;-)) > > > > It's good to hear you have a 30" x 12" footprint but > you need to quit > > using the "depth" term for the front to back > measurement, although > > that is a common term to use for measuring other > physical items, for > > aquariums, because of the water, "depth" can easily be > misconstrued to > > be the depth of the water. This is why the standard > for aquarium > > measurement is L x W x H (Length by Width by Height). > I know the > > "width" part can be confusing also since that would be > the long sides > > of most aquarium where we commonly use the long sides > as the length > > and the front to back measurement as the width. > > Don't ask me who invented this standard. LOL > > > > At least with the 30" x 12" footprint and only 23" > tall and your tank > > is still based on the same footprint as a 20G but at > least it's a 20G > > LONG footprint instead of a regular 20G footprint. > It's also not > > nearly as tall as what you originally said was a 30" > tall tank so this > > makes your lighting more practical... BUT... you still > DO NOT need 5" > > to 7" of gravel. > > Still > > cut this back to 2" to 3". > > > > I do not recall if you ever listed details on your > lighting other than > > saying you had two 65W fluorescent bulbs. Are they > standard > > fluorescent bulbs... long single tubes with two pins > on each end? Look > > on the bulbs for any item numbers, brand names, etc. > and let us know. > > From what I can see on the net, it looks like you > could either have > > 65W CFL's instead of standard fluorescent bulbs but > they do also have > > a T-10 65W Fluorescent tube. While they are both > called 65W (watt), > > the CFL's would put out 2-3 times more light (lumens) > than standard > > fluorescent tubes. > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to > any articles > > referenced in above reply are listed on the right > side, alphabetically > > under Labels and also under Archives by Year, > > Month) > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] > On Behalf Of Lainey Alexander > > Sent: Thursday, October 15, 2009 8:38 PM > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > Subject: [AquaticLife] OOPS re green water > > > > I just realized that I completely goofed on these > measurements > > (below), which is why everyone has been so adamant > about my crazy tank > > shape! > > > > The height is 23, the WIDTH is 30 and the depth is > 12. > > > > I'm so sorry to make everyone talk about something > that was incorrect > > this whole time. But now, can you all let me know if > this is a much > > more reasonable depth please? Does this change my > bioload issues at > > all? > > Does it > > change the appropriateness of my lights? > > > > In five weeks several of my plants are near the top of > the water, so I > > think they must be fairly happy with the light. > > > > My apologies for being careless. > > > > Lainey > > > > > > > > Tank measurements are 30 high, 23 wide and 12 > deep. > > > > > > Fluorescent lights, 2 @65 watts and 6700k - on 12 > and off 12 > > which is > > > what I have been told my plants require... > > > > > > I used Activ-Flora gravel, and this contains > non-nitrogen fertilizer > > > plus "instant-cycling" bacteria > > > > > > Not dosing with any chemicals or ferts > > > > > > *** > > > > ------------------------------------ > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when > replying, Thank You. > ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> > ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> > PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is > NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of > the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new > subject (was re: old subject)" <- > <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. > , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. > > If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of > unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by > clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the home page.  > > Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com > to receive the digest, which includes up to 25 posts at a > time in a single email > > Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com > for the No E-Mail option where you will still be able to > read messages on the group and post replies. > > Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com > to receive individual e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links > > >     mailto:AquaticLife-fullfeatured@yahoogroups.com > > > ------------------------------------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the home page. Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com to receive the digest, which includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com for the No E-Mail option where you will still be able to read messages on the group and post replies. Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com to receive individual e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 43878	From: sevenspringss@wmconnect.com	Date: 10/16/2009
Subject: Re: OOPS re green water

Bill, Since you mentioned Drs Foster & Smith, I became curious and checked one of my most resent catalogs. You mentioned these fixtures could cost in the hundreds of dollars -- I saw a couple over $1000 and two more well over $1300. One of these was ON SALE (LOL) -- regularly $1599.99 ($1600 + shipping). While I might be persuaded to say that's LUDICROUS, a more accurate description would be that it's absolutely INSANE ! You could probably replace the best of plants 20 times over (or more) as a conservative estimate using ordinary flourescent lighting, if those plants failed, and not have to be concerned that you'd ever spend any more than such a fixture. Ray [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 43879	From: bill 1433	Date: 10/16/2009
Subject: Re: OOPS re green water

Len, To be honest with you, this is one area I do not go to, electricity. Carpentry, some plumbing about anything the average 40-year homeowner might tackle, but not electricity. Thanks anyway, I will keep looking. Bill --- On Fri, 10/16/09, Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@...> wrote: > From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@...> > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] OOPS re green water > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Date: Friday, October 16, 2009, 3:46 PM > Do you have a Wally-World > nearby?  A SuperCenter is even better and they > have a nice big selection of light bulbs.  You could > bring your current > fixture with you and try out other bulbs to see if they > fit... maybe even > find a nearby plug to test them. ;-) > > You'll probably have to upgrade your fixture though if you > want to make much > of a change... at least that's my initial thoughts.  > I'm sure if there was > an easy way to upgrade lighting, I would have seen it > posted in one of the > forums.  There are online sites that sell DIY retrofit > kits for upgrading > some fixtures though.  Here's one that I have in my > favorites. > http://www.ahsupply.com/%c2%a0 > > They have a single 18W CFL kit (which would put out 2-3 > times more lumens > than your current fluorescent bulb) which includes an 18W > 6700K CFL bulb, > reflector, ballast, power cord, etc.... everything for > someone to build > their own light fixture inside their own wooden box... for > $39.99. > http://ahsupply.com/mcart/index.cgi?code=3&cat=10 > > Here's another simple article about lighting in general and > compares some of > the types of bulbs. > http://woo.gotdns.com/Aquarium/Lighting.htm > > You can do a Google of DIY Aquarium Lighting Retrofit to > find more sites to > look over for more info. > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed > on the right > side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives > by Year, Month) > > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] > On > Behalf Of bill 1433 > Sent: Friday, October 16, 2009 1:38 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] OOPS re green water > > Thanks Amber, > > Yes, saw post and promptly lost it! > What are ya gonna do------it happens to > the best of us.  Going over to group to > search for it.  Hang on though, more questions to > follow.  Money, Money, > what I am trying to do is increase light out put of a > all-glass hood from a > little 17 watt tube at 24" to something that will fit into > this fixture and > give me more light.  In other words, I know where I'm > going--------I just > don't know how to get there! > > Thanks Bill > > --- On Fri, 10/16/09, Amber Berglund <arberglund@...> > wrote: > > > From: Amber Berglund <arberglund@...> > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] OOPS re green water > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > Date: Friday, October 16, 2009, 2:04 PM Um Bill I > answered a few of > > those questions, did you see my post? > > You want full spectrum also called 6500 or 6700 Kelvin > range, for > > aquatic plants. > > CFL's are the best value for your money, but the VHO > fluorescents come > > in a decent 2nd best, and GE makes some decent ones > I've heard. > > > > Amber > > > > bill 1433 wrote: > > >  > > > > > > Hi Len, > > > > > > As you saw, I posted about lighting and received > an > > answer > > > from \\Steve//. But to be honest with you, what > I > > really wanted > > > to know was more along the lines of "Type". > > > > > > For instance, from this message you said: "but > they do > > also have a > > > T-10 65W > > > Fluorescent tube. While they are both called 65W > > (watt), the CFL's > > > would put out > > > 2-3 times more light (lumens) than standard > > fluorescent tubes." > > > > > > First, who makes them? Second, what type or name? > If > > you look in the > > > latest issue of the Dr.'s Foster and Smith > catalog on > > pages 4 thru 15 > > > they have about every kind of light "fixture" you > can > > think of. The > > > question is also for the "tubes" themselves. You > have > > 50/50, > > > full-spectrum daylight, color enhancing, actinic, > the > > list is almost > > > never-ending. > > > > > > Do you see my point? Out of all of these, what > kind of > > setup does the > > > average aquarist needs to grow some plants and > have > > some fun without > > > putting a second mortgage on his home? Some of > the > > fixtures and > > > lighting setups cost hundred's of dollars and > could > > easily out price > > > the fish, aquarium and stands themselves. > > > > > > Bill > > > > > > --- On Fri, 10/16/09, Lenny V. aka GoldLenny > <GoldLenny@... > > > > > <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com>> wrote: > > > > > > > From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@... > > > > > <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com>> > > > > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] OOPS re green > water > > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > Date: Friday, October 16, 2009, 1:16 AM Lets > see... my first > > > > thoughts would be... > > > > > > > > http://images.veer.com/IMG/PILL/MAI/MAI0002683_P.JPG > > > <http://images.veer.com/IMG/PILL/MAI/MAI0002683_P.JPG> > > > > > > > > (maybe without the Parrot as an eye > witness... > > lol... ;-)) > > > > > > > > It's good to hear you have a 30" x 12" > footprint > > but you > > > > need to quit using > > > > the "depth" term for the front to back > > measurement, > > > > although that is a > > > > common term to use for measuring other > physical > > items, for > > > > aquariums, > > > > because of the water, "depth" can easily be > > misconstrued to > > > > be the depth of > > > > the water.  This is why the standard for > > aquarium > > > > measurement is L x W x H > > > > (Length by Width by Height).  I know the > > "width" part > > > > can be confusing also > > > > since that would be the long sides of most > > aquarium where > > > > we commonly use > > > > the long sides as the length and the front > to > > back > > > > measurement as the width. > > > > Don't ask me who invented this standard. > LOL > > > > > > > > At least with the 30" x 12" footprint and > only > > 23" tall and > > > > your tank is > > > > still based on the same footprint as a 20G > but at > > least > > > > it's a 20G LONG > > > > footprint instead of a regular 20G > > footprint.  It's > > > > also not nearly as tall > > > > as what you originally said was a 30" tall > tank > > so this > > > > makes your lighting > > > > more practical... BUT... you still DO NOT > need 5" > > to 7" of > > > > gravel.  Still > > > > cut this back to 2" to 3". > > > > > > > > I do not recall if you ever listed details > on > > your lighting > > > > other than > > > > saying you had two 65W fluorescent bulbs. > > Are they > > > > standard fluorescent > > > > bulbs... long single tubes with two pins on > each > > end? > > > > Look on the bulbs for > > > > any item numbers, brand names, etc. and let > us > > know. > > > > From what I can see on > > > > the net, it looks like you could either have > 65W > > CFL's > > > > instead of standard > > > > fluorescent bulbs but they do also have a > T-10 > > 65W > > > > Fluorescent tube.  While > > > > they are both called 65W (watt), the CFL's > would > > put out > > > > 2-3 times more > > > > light (lumens) than standard fluorescent > tubes. > > > > > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > > (Links to any articles referenced in above > reply > > are listed > > > > on the right > > > > side, alphabetically under Labels and also > under > > Archives > > > > by Year, Month) > > > > > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] > > > > On > > > > Behalf Of Lainey Alexander > > > > Sent: Thursday, October 15, 2009 8:38 PM > > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > Subject: [AquaticLife] OOPS re green water > > > > > > > > I just realized that I completely goofed on > > these > > > > measurements (below), > > > > which is why everyone has been so adamant > about > > my crazy > > > > tank shape! > > > > > > > > The height is 23, the WIDTH is 30 and the > depth > > is 12. > > > > > > > > I'm so sorry to make everyone talk about > > something that was > > > > incorrect this > > > > whole time. But now, can you all let me know > if > > this is a > > > > much more > > > > reasonable depth please? Does this change > my > > bioload issues > > > > at all? Does it > > > > change the appropriateness of my lights? > > > > > > > > In five weeks several of my plants are near > the > > top of the > > > > water, so I think > > > > they must be fairly happy with the light. > > > > > > > > My apologies for being careless. > > > > > > > > Lainey > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Tank measurements are 30 high, 23 wide > and > > 12 deep. > > > > > > > > > > Fluorescent lights, 2 @65 watts and > 6700k - > > on 12 and > > > > off 12 which is > > > > > what I have been told my plants > require... > > > > > > > > > > I used Activ-Flora gravel, and this > > contains > > > > non-nitrogen fertilizer > > > > > plus "instant-cycling" bacteria > > > > > > > > > > Not dosing with any chemicals or ferts > > > > > > > > > > *** > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ------------------------------------ > > > > > > > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING > below it > > when > > > > replying, Thank You. > > > > > > > ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> > > > > ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , > > .·´¯`·..><((((º> > > > > PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all > TEXT > > that is > > > > NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING > the > > TOPIC of > > > > the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT > LINE > > -> i.e. "new > > > > subject (was re: old subject)" <- > > > > > > > <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. > > > > , > .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. > > > > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in > this > > matter. > > > > > > > > If you do not want all of the groups > emails, > > instead of > > > > unsubscribing, you can change your delivery > > option by > > > > clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the > home > > page. > > > > > > > > Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com > > > > > > <mailto:aquaticlife-digest%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > to receive the digest, which includes up to > 25 > > posts at a > > > > time in a single email > > > > > > > > Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com > > > > > > <mailto:aquaticlife-nomail%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > for the No E-Mail option where you will > still be > > able to > > > > read messages on the group and post > replies. > > > > > > > > Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com > > > > > > <mailto:aquaticlife-normal%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > to receive individual e-mails.Yahoo! Groups > > Links > > > > > > > > > > > >     mailto:AquaticLife-fullfeatured@yahoogroups.com > > > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife-fullfeatured%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ------------------------------------ > > > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when > replying, Thank > > You. > > > ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> > > ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> > > PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that > is NOT > > important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of > the original message > > MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was > re: old subject)" <- > > > <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. > > , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. > > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. > > > > If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead > of unsubscribing, > > you can change your delivery option by clicking on > "Edit My > > Membership" on the home page. > > > > Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com > > to receive the digest, which includes up to 25 posts > at a time in a > > single email > > > > Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com > > for the No E-Mail option where you will still be able > to read messages > > on the group and post replies. > > > > Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com > > to receive individual e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > >     mailto:AquaticLife-fullfeatured@yahoogroups.com > > > > > > > > >       > > > ------------------------------------ > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when > replying, Thank You. > ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> > ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> > PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is > NOT important to > the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original > message MODIFY the SUBJECT > LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- > <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. > , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. > > If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of > unsubscribing, you > can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My > Membership" on the > home page.  > > Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com > to receive the digest, which > includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email > > Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com > for the No E-Mail option where > you will still be able to read messages on the group and > post replies. > > Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com > to receive individual > e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > ------------------------------------ > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when > replying, Thank You. > ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> > ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> > PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is > NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of > the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new > subject (was re: old subject)" <- > <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. > , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. > > If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of > unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by > clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the home page.  > > Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com > to receive the digest, which includes up to 25 posts at a > time in a single email > > Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com > for the No E-Mail option where you will still be able to > read messages on the group and post replies. > > Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com > to receive individual e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links > > >     mailto:AquaticLife-fullfeatured@yahoogroups.com > > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 43880	From: bill 1433	Date: 10/16/2009
Subject: Re: OOPS re green water

\Ya, I got that buddy! How come your post marked at 1:30pm just now got here on or to my IN box??? Mail slow down there today? <g> Bill --- On Fri, 10/16/09, sevenspringss@... <sevenspringss@...> wrote: > From: sevenspringss@... <sevenspringss@...> > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] OOPS re green water > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Date: Friday, October 16, 2009, 1:30 PM > Bill, Since you mentioned Drs Foster > & Smith, I became curious and checked > one of my most resent catalogs.  You mentioned these > fixtures could cost in > the hundreds of dollars -- I saw a couple over $1000 and > two more well over > $1300.  One of these was ON SALE (LOL) -- regularly > $1599.99 ($1600 + > shipping).  While I might be persuaded to say that's > LUDICROUS, a more accurate > description would be that it's absolutely INSANE !  > You could probably replace > the best of plants 20 times over (or more) as a > conservative estimate using > ordinary flourescent lighting, if those plants failed, and > not have to be > concerned that you'd ever spend any more than such a > fixture.  Ray > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > ------------------------------------ > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when > replying, Thank You. > ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> > ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> > PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is > NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of > the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new > subject (was re: old subject)" <- > <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. > , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. > > If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of > unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by > clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the home page.  > > Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com > to receive the digest, which includes up to 25 posts at a > time in a single email > > Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com > for the No E-Mail option where you will still be able to > read messages on the group and post replies. > > Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com > to receive individual e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links > > >     mailto:AquaticLife-fullfeatured@yahoogroups.com > > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 43881	From: bill 1433	Date: 10/16/2009
Subject: Re: OOPS re green water

Just answered the other post! We must be playing "mail tag" today. You just hit on the part I can't get or figure------the T part. This bulb has no markings for that or about that. Would that it did, my quest would be much easier because this is the part where part of my confusion is coming from. Bill --- On Fri, 10/16/09, Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@...> wrote: > From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@...> > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] OOPS re green water > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Date: Friday, October 16, 2009, 3:57 PM > Bill, > > I was answering Lainey.  I think you have another > thread going with your > questions and I know I just sent you a reply a few minutes > ago.  But Bill, I > think you may have a T-8 17W 24" long bulb... right?  > It should have more > writing on the tube, such as the T-__ number and the > manufacturer.. unless > it was some off-brand generic type bulb. > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed > on the right > side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives > by Year, Month) > > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] > On > Behalf Of bill 1433 > Sent: Friday, October 16, 2009 2:18 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] OOPS re green water > > Standard ----------well maybe!  The tube I have has > two pins on each end > just like a 48" standard shop light only thinner. > They come in at 17 watts, that is stamped on the tube. > > Bill > > --- On Fri, 10/16/09, Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@...> > wrote: > > > From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@...> > > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] OOPS re green water > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > Date: Friday, October 16, 2009, 2:37 PM Long straight > tubes with pins > > on each end?  Many other bulbs also have pins but > CFL's only have them > > on one end and the tube usually makes a U-turn and > comes back to the > > same fitting.  They should have a brand and item > number on them... or > > something else... but they are probably just standard > fluorescent > > tubes.  You would have to turn the fixture over and > look at the > > bulbs... > > maybe even removing one to look for the writing on the > glass on one > > end of the tube.  It might/should even have a T-__ > code which is a > > standard coding now for fluorescent tubes. > > > > You need to know this information as, depending on the > > > brand/type/etc., you might have to replace these bulbs > every six > > months or so. > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to > any articles > > referenced in above reply are listed on the right > side, alphabetically > > under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) > >  > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] > > On > > Behalf Of Lainey Alexander > > Sent: Friday, October 16, 2009 10:17 AM > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] OOPS re green water > > > > Lenny - > > > > As far as I know, I have regular standard > fluorescents, > > they are the ones > > with the pins - 65 watts, two bulbs, 6700k each. > > > > Lainey > > http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com > > > > On Oct 16, 2009, at 1:16 AM, Lenny V. aka GoldLenny > wrote: > > > > > Lets see... my first thoughts would be... > > > > > > http://images.veer.com/IMG/PILL/MAI/MAI0002683_P.JPG > > > > > > (maybe without the Parrot as an eye witness... > lol... > > ;-)) > > > > > > It's good to hear you have a 30" x 12" footprint > but > > you need to quit > > > using the "depth" term for the front to back > > measurement, although > > > that is a common term to use for measuring other > > physical items, for > > > aquariums, because of the water, "depth" can > easily be > > misconstrued to > > > be the depth of the water. This is why the > standard > > for aquarium > > > measurement is L x W x H (Length by Width by > Height). > > I know the > > > "width" part can be confusing also since that > would be > > the long sides > > > of most aquarium where we commonly use the long > sides > > as the length > > > and the front to back measurement as the width. > > > Don't ask me who invented this standard. LOL > > > > > > At least with the 30" x 12" footprint and only > 23" > > tall and your tank > > > is still based on the same footprint as a 20G but > at > > least it's a 20G > > > LONG footprint instead of a regular 20G > footprint. > > It's also not > > > nearly as tall as what you originally said was a > 30" > > tall tank so this > > > makes your lighting more practical... BUT... you > still > > DO NOT need 5" > > > to 7" of gravel. > > > Still > > > cut this back to 2" to 3". > > > > > > I do not recall if you ever listed details on > your > > lighting other than > > > saying you had two 65W fluorescent bulbs. Are > they > > standard > > > fluorescent bulbs... long single tubes with two > pins > > on each end? Look > > > on the bulbs for any item numbers, brand names, > etc. > > and let us know. > > > From what I can see on the net, it looks like > you > > could either have > > > 65W CFL's instead of standard fluorescent bulbs > but > > they do also have > > > a T-10 65W Fluorescent tube. While they are both > > called 65W (watt), > > > the CFL's would put out 2-3 times more light > (lumens) > > than standard > > > fluorescent tubes. > > > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to > > any articles > > > referenced in above reply are listed on the > right > > side, alphabetically > > > under Labels and also under Archives by Year, > > > Month) > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] > > On Behalf Of Lainey Alexander > > > Sent: Thursday, October 15, 2009 8:38 PM > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > > Subject: [AquaticLife] OOPS re green water > > > > > > I just realized that I completely goofed on > these > > measurements > > > (below), which is why everyone has been so > adamant > > about my crazy tank > > > shape! > > > > > > The height is 23, the WIDTH is 30 and the depth > is > > 12. > > > > > > I'm so sorry to make everyone talk about > something > > that was incorrect > > > this whole time. But now, can you all let me know > if > > this is a much > > > more reasonable depth please? Does this change > my > > bioload issues at > > > all? > > > Does it > > > change the appropriateness of my lights? > > > > > > In five weeks several of my plants are near the > top of > > the water, so I > > > think they must be fairly happy with the light. > > > > > > My apologies for being careless. > > > > > > Lainey > > > > > > > > > > > Tank measurements are 30 high, 23 wide and > 12 > > deep. > > > > > > > > Fluorescent lights, 2 @65 watts and 6700k - > on 12 > > and off 12 > > > which is > > > > what I have been told my plants require... > > > > > > > > I used Activ-Flora gravel, and this > contains > > non-nitrogen fertilizer > > > > plus "instant-cycling" bacteria > > > > > > > > Not dosing with any chemicals or ferts > > > > > > > > *** > > > > > > > > ------------------------------------ > > > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when > > replying, Thank You. > > > ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> > > ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> > > PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that > is > > NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC > of > > the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> > i.e. "new > > subject (was re: old subject)" <- > > > <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. > > , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. > > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. > > > > If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead > of > > unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by > > clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the home page.  > > > > Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com > > to receive the digest, which includes up to 25 posts > at a > > time in a single email > > > > Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com > > for the No E-Mail option where you will still be able > to > > read messages on the group and post replies. > > > > Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com > > to receive individual e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > >     mailto:AquaticLife-fullfeatured@yahoogroups.com > > > > > > > > >       > > > ------------------------------------ > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when > replying, Thank You. > ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> > ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> > PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is > NOT important to > the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original > message MODIFY the SUBJECT > LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- > <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. > , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. > > If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of > unsubscribing, you > can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My > Membership" on the > home page.  > > Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com > to receive the digest, which > includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email > > Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com > for the No E-Mail option where > you will still be able to read messages on the group and > post replies. > > Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com > to receive individual > e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > ------------------------------------ > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when > replying, Thank You. > ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> > ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> > PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is > NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of > the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new > subject (was re: old subject)" <- > <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. > , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. > > If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of > unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by > clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the home page.  > > Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com > to receive the digest, which includes up to 25 posts at a > time in a single email > > Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com > for the No E-Mail option where you will still be able to > read messages on the group and post replies. > > Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com > to receive individual e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links > > >     mailto:AquaticLife-fullfeatured@yahoogroups.com > > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 43882	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 10/16/2009
Subject: Re: OOPS re green water

what is the size of your bulb (diameter/width and length) Bill? T-4's are half an inch, T-5's are .625 of an inch, T-8's are 1 inch diameter. Maybe that will narrow it down for you :) Amber bill 1433 wrote: > > > Just answered the other post! We must be playing > "mail tag" today. You just hit on the part I can't get or > figure------the T part. This bulb has no markings for that > or about that. > Would that it did, my quest would be much easier because this > is the part where part of my confusion is coming from. > > Bill > > --- On Fri, 10/16/09, Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@... > <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com>> wrote: > > > From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@... > <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com>> > > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] OOPS re green water > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > Date: Friday, October 16, 2009, 3:57 PM > > Bill, > > > > I was answering Lainey. I think you have another > > thread going with your > > questions and I know I just sent you a reply a few minutes > > ago. But Bill, I > > think you may have a T-8 17W 24" long bulb... right? > > It should have more > > writing on the tube, such as the T-__ number and the > > manufacturer.. unless > > it was some off-brand generic type bulb. > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed > > on the right > > side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives > > by Year, Month) > > > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] > > On > > Behalf Of bill 1433 > > Sent: Friday, October 16, 2009 2:18 PM > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] OOPS re green water > > > > Standard ----------well maybe! The tube I have has > > two pins on each end > > just like a 48" standard shop light only thinner. > > They come in at 17 watts, that is stamped on the tube. > > > > Bill > > > > --- On Fri, 10/16/09, Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@... > <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com>> > > wrote: > > > > > From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@... > <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com>> > > > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] OOPS re green water > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > Date: Friday, October 16, 2009, 2:37 PM Long straight > > tubes with pins > > > on each end? Many other bulbs also have pins but > > CFL's only have them > > > on one end and the tube usually makes a U-turn and > > comes back to the > > > same fitting. They should have a brand and item > > number on them... or > > > something else... but they are probably just standard > > fluorescent > > > tubes. You would have to turn the fixture over and > > look at the > > > bulbs... > > > maybe even removing one to look for the writing on the > > glass on one > > > end of the tube. It might/should even have a T-__ > > code which is a > > > standard coding now for fluorescent tubes. > > > > > > You need to know this information as, depending on the > > > > > brand/type/etc., you might have to replace these bulbs > > every six > > > months or so. > > > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> (Links to > > any articles > > > referenced in above reply are listed on the right > > side, alphabetically > > > under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) > > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] > > > On > > > Behalf Of Lainey Alexander > > > Sent: Friday, October 16, 2009 10:17 AM > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] OOPS re green water > > > > > > Lenny - > > > > > > As far as I know, I have regular standard > > fluorescents, > > > they are the ones > > > with the pins - 65 watts, two bulbs, 6700k each. > > > > > > Lainey > > > http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com > <http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com> > > > > > > On Oct 16, 2009, at 1:16 AM, Lenny V. aka GoldLenny > > wrote: > > > > > > > Lets see... my first thoughts would be... > > > > > > > > http://images.veer.com/IMG/PILL/MAI/MAI0002683_P.JPG > <http://images.veer.com/IMG/PILL/MAI/MAI0002683_P.JPG> > > > > > > > > (maybe without the Parrot as an eye witness... > > lol... > > > ;-)) > > > > > > > > It's good to hear you have a 30" x 12" footprint > > but > > > you need to quit > > > > using the "depth" term for the front to back > > > measurement, although > > > > that is a common term to use for measuring other > > > physical items, for > > > > aquariums, because of the water, "depth" can > > easily be > > > misconstrued to > > > > be the depth of the water. This is why the > > standard > > > for aquarium > > > > measurement is L x W x H (Length by Width by > > Height). > > > I know the > > > > "width" part can be confusing also since that > > would be > > > the long sides > > > > of most aquarium where we commonly use the long > > sides > > > as the length > > > > and the front to back measurement as the width. > > > > Don't ask me who invented this standard. LOL > > > > > > > > At least with the 30" x 12" footprint and only > > 23" > > > tall and your tank > > > > is still based on the same footprint as a 20G but > > at > > > least it's a 20G > > > > LONG footprint instead of a regular 20G > > footprint. > > > It's also not > > > > nearly as tall as what you originally said was a > > 30" > > > tall tank so this > > > > makes your lighting more practical... BUT... you > > still > > > DO NOT need 5" > > > > to 7" of gravel. > > > > Still > > > > cut this back to 2" to 3". > > > > > > > > I do not recall if you ever listed details on > > your > > > lighting other than > > > > saying you had two 65W fluorescent bulbs. Are > > they > > > standard > > > > fluorescent bulbs... long single tubes with two > > pins > > > on each end? Look > > > > on the bulbs for any item numbers, brand names, > > etc. > > > and let us know. > > > > From what I can see on the net, it looks like > > you > > > could either have > > > > 65W CFL's instead of standard fluorescent bulbs > > but > > > they do also have > > > > a T-10 65W Fluorescent tube. While they are both > > > called 65W (watt), > > > > the CFL's would put out 2-3 times more light > > (lumens) > > > than standard > > > > fluorescent tubes. > > > > > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> (Links to > > > any articles > > > > referenced in above reply are listed on the > > right > > > side, alphabetically > > > > under Labels and also under Archives by Year, > > > > Month) > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] > > > On Behalf Of Lainey Alexander > > > > Sent: Thursday, October 15, 2009 8:38 PM > > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > Subject: [AquaticLife] OOPS re green water > > > > > > > > I just realized that I completely goofed on > > these > > > measurements > > > > (below), which is why everyone has been so > > adamant > > > about my crazy tank > > > > shape! > > > > > > > > The height is 23, the WIDTH is 30 and the depth > > is > > > 12. > > > > > > > > I'm so sorry to make everyone talk about > > something > > > that was incorrect > > > > this whole time. But now, can you all let me know > > if > > > this is a much > > > > more reasonable depth please? Does this change > > my > > > bioload issues at > > > > all? > > > > Does it > > > > change the appropriateness of my lights? > > > > > > > > In five weeks several of my plants are near the > > top of > > > the water, so I > > > > think they must be fairly happy with the light. > > > > > > > > My apologies for being careless. > > > > > > > > Lainey > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Tank measurements are 30 high, 23 wide and > > 12 > > > deep. > > > > > > > > > > Fluorescent lights, 2 @65 watts and 6700k - > > on 12 > > > and off 12 > > > > which is > > > > > what I have been told my plants require... > > > > > > > > > > I used Activ-Flora gravel, and this > > contains > > > non-nitrogen fertilizer > > > > > plus "instant-cycling" bacteria > > > > > > > > > > Not dosing with any chemicals or ferts > > > > > > > > > > *** > > > > > > > > > > > > ------------------------------------ > > > > > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when > > > replying, Thank You. > > > > > ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> > > > ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> > > > PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that > > is > > > NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC > > of > > > the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> > > i.e. "new > > > subject (was re: old subject)" <- > > > > > <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. > > > , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. > > > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. > > > > > > If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead > > of > > > unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by > > > clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the home page. > > > > > > Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:aquaticlife-digest%40yahoogroups.com> > > > to receive the digest, which includes up to 25 posts > > at a > > > time in a single email > > > > > > Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:aquaticlife-nomail%40yahoogroups.com> > > > for the No E-Mail option where you will still be able > > to > > > read messages on the group and post replies. > > > > > > Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:aquaticlife-normal%40yahoogroups.com> > > > to receive individual e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > > > > mailto:AquaticLife-fullfeatured@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife-fullfeatured%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ------------------------------------ > > > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when > > replying, Thank You. > > ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> > > ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> > > PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is > > NOT important to > > the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original > > message MODIFY the SUBJECT > > LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- > > <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. > > , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. > > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. > > > > If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of > > unsubscribing, you > > can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My > > Membership" on the > > home page. > > > > Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:aquaticlife-digest%40yahoogroups.com> > > to receive the digest, which > > includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email > > > > Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:aquaticlife-nomail%40yahoogroups.com> > > for the No E-Mail option where > > you will still be able to read messages on the group and > > post replies. > > > > Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:aquaticlife-normal%40yahoogroups.com> > > to receive individual > > e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > > > > > > > ------------------------------------ > > > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when > > replying, Thank You. > > ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> > > ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> > > PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is > > NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of > > the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new > > subject (was re: old subject)" <- > > <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. > > , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. > > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. > > > > If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of > > unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by > > clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the home page. > > > > Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:aquaticlife-digest%40yahoogroups.com> > > to receive the digest, which includes up to 25 posts at a > > time in a single email > > > > Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:aquaticlife-nomail%40yahoogroups.com> > > for the No E-Mail option where you will still be able to > > read messages on the group and post replies. > > > > Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:aquaticlife-normal%40yahoogroups.com> > > to receive individual e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > mailto:AquaticLife-fullfeatured@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife-fullfeatured%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 43883	From: Deenerz@aol.com	Date: 10/16/2009
Subject: Re: OOPS re green water

So with all these expensive trick lighting systems I am guessing these plants cannot survive in plain old sunlight ;) it just cracks me up that we spend so much to try and imitate the sun. I do get it, an artificial environment requires artificial light. -Mike -----Original Message----- From: sevenspringss@... To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Fri, Oct 16, 2009 10:30 am Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] OOPS re green water Bill, Since you mentioned Drs Foster & Smith, I became curious and checked one of my most resent catalogs. You mentioned these fixtures could cost in the hundreds of dollars -- I saw a couple over $1000 and two more well over $1300. One of these was ON SALE (LOL) -- regularly $1599.99 ($1600 + shipping). While I might be persuaded to say that's LUDICROUS, a more accurate description would be that it's absolutely INSANE ! You could probably replace the best of plants 20 times over (or more) as a conservative estimate using ordinary flourescent lighting, if those plants failed, and not have to be concerned that you'd ever spend any more than such a fixture. Ray [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] =

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 43884	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 10/16/2009
Subject: Re: OOPS re green water

Maybe the lighting fixture is made of gold? LOL. I could never spend that much on a fixture. Mine was pushing my limits as it was and I spent somewhere close to 300 on it I think (was months ago now), I used Bill-me-later on marinedepot.com to get it, so I could make payments on the light. But I must say, I love it. One plug, timer included, and night lights, and more than enough light for my 55 gallon tank. Amber Deenerz@... wrote: > > > So with all these expensive trick lighting systems I am guessing these > plants cannot survive in plain old sunlight ;) > > it just cracks me up that we spend so much to try and imitate the sun. > > I do get it, an artificial environment requires artificial light. > > -Mike > > -----Original Message----- > From: sevenspringss@... <mailto:sevenspringss%40wmconnect.com> > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Sent: Fri, Oct 16, 2009 10:30 am > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] OOPS re green water > > Bill, Since you mentioned Drs Foster & Smith, I became curious and > checked > one of my most resent catalogs. You mentioned these fixtures could cost > in > the hundreds of dollars -- I saw a couple over $1000 and two more well > over > $1300. One of these was ON SALE (LOL) -- regularly $1599.99 ($1600 + > shipping). While I might be persuaded to say that's LUDICROUS, a more > accurate > description would be that it's absolutely INSANE ! You could probably > replace > the best of plants 20 times over (or more) as a conservative estimate > using > ordinary flourescent lighting, if those plants failed, and not have to > be > concerned that you'd ever spend any more than such a fixture. Ray > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > = > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 43885	From: Deenerz@aol.com	Date: 10/16/2009
Subject: Re: OOPS re green water

Gold plated, now I know why everyone is selling their scrap gold :) I would like to have better lighting as I love red plants which generally require better lighting than I will spend money on. I just got a really good deal on an Eclipse 3 hood for a 29 to 37 gallon aquarium. More light than I usually put over a tank. I have a 37 gallon tank and a stand for it. Just won about 8 plants at my club auction for $9.00 and now all I am waiting on is some better substrate than I am usually willing to spend money on. Come on payday! -Mike -----Original Message----- From: Amber Berglund <arberglund@...> To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Fri, Oct 16, 2009 2:17 pm Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] OOPS re green water Maybe the lighting fixture is made of gold? LOL. I could never spend that much on a fixture. Mine was pushing my limits as it was and I spent somewhere close to 300 on it I think (was months ago now), I used Bill-me-later on marinedepot.com to get it, so I could make payments on the light. But I must say, I love it. One plug, timer included, and night lights, and more than enough light for my 55 gallon tank. Amber Deenerz@... wrote: > > > So with all these expensive trick lighting systems I am guessing these > plants cannot survive in plain old sunlight ;) > > it just cracks me up that we spend so much to try and imitate the sun. > > I do get it, an artificial environment requires artificial light. > > -Mike > > -----Original Message----- > From: sevenspringss@... <mailto:sevenspringss%40wmconnect.com> > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Sent: Fri, Oct 16, 2009 10:30 am > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] OOPS re green water > > Bill, Since you mentioned Drs Foster & Smith, I became curious and > checked > one of my most resent catalogs. You mentioned these fixtures could cost > in > the hundreds of dollars -- I saw a couple over $1000 and two more well > over > $1300. One of these was ON SALE (LOL) -- regularly $1599.99 ($1600 + > shipping). While I might be persuaded to say that's LUDICROUS, a more > accurate > description would be that it's absolutely INSANE ! You could probably > replace > the best of plants 20 times over (or more) as a conservative estimate > using > ordinary flourescent lighting, if those plants failed, and not have to > be > concerned that you'd ever spend any more than such a fixture. Ray > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > = > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 43886	From: bill 1433	Date: 10/16/2009
Subject: Re: OOPS re green water

Now I think ya got something here! That tube is a 1/2", so that makes it a T-4! Bill --- On Fri, 10/16/09, Amber Berglund <arberglund@...> wrote: > From: Amber Berglund <arberglund@...> > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] OOPS re green water > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Date: Friday, October 16, 2009, 4:58 PM > what is the size of your bulb > (diameter/width and length) Bill? > T-4's are half an inch,  T-5's are .625 of an inch, > T-8's are 1 inch > diameter. > Maybe that will narrow it down for you :) > > Amber > > bill 1433 wrote: > >  > > > > Just answered the other post! We must be playing > > "mail tag" today. You just hit on the part I can't get > or > > figure------the T part. This bulb has no markings for > that > > or about that. > > Would that it did, my quest would be much easier > because this > > is the part where part of my confusion is coming > from. > > > > Bill > > > > --- On Fri, 10/16/09, Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@... > > > <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com>> wrote: > > > > > From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@... > > > <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com>> > > > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] OOPS re green water > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > Date: Friday, October 16, 2009, 3:57 PM > > > Bill, > > > > > > I was answering Lainey.  I think you have > another > > > thread going with your > > > questions and I know I just sent you a reply a > few minutes > > > ago.  But Bill, I > > > think you may have a T-8 17W 24" long bulb... > right? > > > It should have more > > > writing on the tube, such as the T-__ number and > the > > > manufacturer.. unless > > > it was some off-brand generic type bulb. > > > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > (Links to any articles referenced in above reply > are listed > > > on the right > > > side, alphabetically under Labels and also under > Archives > > > by Year, Month) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] > > > On > > > Behalf Of bill 1433 > > > Sent: Friday, October 16, 2009 2:18 PM > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] OOPS re green water > > > > > > Standard ----------well maybe!  The tube I > have has > > > two pins on each end > > > just like a 48" standard shop light only > thinner. > > > They come in at 17 watts, that is stamped on the > tube. > > > > > > Bill > > > > > > --- On Fri, 10/16/09, Lenny V. aka GoldLenny > <GoldLenny@... > > > <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com>> > > > wrote: > > > > > > > From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@... > > > <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com>> > > > > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] OOPS re green > water > > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > Date: Friday, October 16, 2009, 2:37 PM Long > straight > > > tubes with pins > > > > on each end?  Many other bulbs also > have pins but > > > CFL's only have them > > > > on one end and the tube usually makes a > U-turn and > > > comes back to the > > > > same fitting.  They should have a brand > and item > > > number on them... or > > > > something else... but they are probably just > standard > > > fluorescent > > > > tubes.  You would have to turn the > fixture over and > > > look at the > > > > bulbs... > > > > maybe even removing one to look for the > writing on the > > > glass on one > > > > end of the tube.  It might/should even > have a T-__ > > > code which is a > > > > standard coding now for fluorescent tubes. > > > > > > > > You need to know this information as, > depending on the > > > > > > > brand/type/etc., you might have to replace > these bulbs > > > every six > > > > months or so. > > > > > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> (Links > to > > > any articles > > > > referenced in above reply are listed on the > right > > > side, alphabetically > > > > under Labels and also under Archives by > Year, Month) > > > > > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] > > > > On > > > > Behalf Of Lainey Alexander > > > > Sent: Friday, October 16, 2009 10:17 AM > > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] OOPS re green > water > > > > > > > > Lenny - > > > > > > > > As far as I know, I have regular standard > > > fluorescents, > > > > they are the ones > > > > with the pins - 65 watts, two bulbs, 6700k > each. > > > > > > > > Lainey > > > > http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com > > <http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com> > > > > > > > > On Oct 16, 2009, at 1:16 AM, Lenny V. aka > GoldLenny > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > Lets see... my first thoughts would > be... > > > > > > > > > > http://images.veer.com/IMG/PILL/MAI/MAI0002683_P.JPG > > <http://images.veer.com/IMG/PILL/MAI/MAI0002683_P.JPG> > > > > > > > > > > (maybe without the Parrot as an eye > witness... > > > lol... > > > > ;-)) > > > > > > > > > > It's good to hear you have a 30" x 12" > footprint > > > but > > > > you need to quit > > > > > using the "depth" term for the front to > back > > > > measurement, although > > > > > that is a common term to use for > measuring other > > > > physical items, for > > > > > aquariums, because of the water, > "depth" can > > > easily be > > > > misconstrued to > > > > > be the depth of the water. This is why > the > > > standard > > > > for aquarium > > > > > measurement is L x W x H (Length by > Width by > > > Height). > > > > I know the > > > > > "width" part can be confusing also > since that > > > would be > > > > the long sides > > > > > of most aquarium where we commonly use > the long > > > sides > > > > as the length > > > > > and the front to back measurement as > the width. > > > > > Don't ask me who invented this > standard. LOL > > > > > > > > > > At least with the 30" x 12" footprint > and only > > > 23" > > > > tall and your tank > > > > > is still based on the same footprint as > a 20G but > > > at > > > > least it's a 20G > > > > > LONG footprint instead of a regular > 20G > > > footprint. > > > > It's also not > > > > > nearly as tall as what you originally > said was a > > > 30" > > > > tall tank so this > > > > > makes your lighting more practical... > BUT... you > > > still > > > > DO NOT need 5" > > > > > to 7" of gravel. > > > > > Still > > > > > cut this back to 2" to 3". > > > > > > > > > > I do not recall if you ever listed > details on > > > your > > > > lighting other than > > > > > saying you had two 65W fluorescent > bulbs. Are > > > they > > > > standard > > > > > fluorescent bulbs... long single tubes > with two > > > pins > > > > on each end? Look > > > > > on the bulbs for any item numbers, > brand names, > > > etc. > > > > and let us know. > > > > > From what I can see on the net, it > looks like > > > you > > > > could either have > > > > > 65W CFL's instead of standard > fluorescent bulbs > > > but > > > > they do also have > > > > > a T-10 65W Fluorescent tube. While they > are both > > > > called 65W (watt), > > > > > the CFL's would put out 2-3 times more > light > > > (lumens) > > > > than standard > > > > > fluorescent tubes. > > > > > > > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > > > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> (Links > to > > > > any articles > > > > > referenced in above reply are listed on > the > > > right > > > > side, alphabetically > > > > > under Labels and also under Archives by > Year, > > > > > Month) > > > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] > > > > On Behalf Of Lainey Alexander > > > > > Sent: Thursday, October 15, 2009 8:38 > PM > > > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > Subject: [AquaticLife] OOPS re green > water > > > > > > > > > > I just realized that I completely > goofed on > > > these > > > > measurements > > > > > (below), which is why everyone has been > so > > > adamant > > > > about my crazy tank > > > > > shape! > > > > > > > > > > The height is 23, the WIDTH is 30 and > the depth > > > is > > > > 12. > > > > > > > > > > I'm so sorry to make everyone talk > about > > > something > > > > that was incorrect > > > > > this whole time. But now, can you all > let me know > > > if > > > > this is a much > > > > > more reasonable depth please? Does this > change > > > my > > > > bioload issues at > > > > > all? > > > > > Does it > > > > > change the appropriateness of my > lights? > > > > > > > > > > In five weeks several of my plants are > near the > > > top of > > > > the water, so I > > > > > think they must be fairly happy with > the light. > > > > > > > > > > My apologies for being careless. > > > > > > > > > > Lainey > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Tank measurements are 30 high, 23 > wide and > > > 12 > > > > deep. > > > > > > > > > > > > Fluorescent lights, 2 @65 watts > and 6700k - > > > on 12 > > > > and off 12 > > > > > which is > > > > > > what I have been told my plants > require... > > > > > > > > > > > > I used Activ-Flora gravel, and > this > > > contains > > > > non-nitrogen fertilizer > > > > > > plus "instant-cycling" bacteria > > > > > > > > > > > > Not dosing with any chemicals or > ferts > > > > > > > > > > > > *** > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ------------------------------------ > > > > > > > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING > below it when > > > > replying, Thank You. > > > > > > > > ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> > > > > ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , > .·´¯`·..><((((º> > > > > PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all > TEXT that > > > is > > > > NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING > the TOPIC > > > of > > > > the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE > -> > > > i.e. "new > > > > subject (was re: old subject)" <- > > > > > > > > <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. > > > > , > .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. > > > > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in > this matter. > > > > > > > > If you do not want all of the groups emails, > instead > > > of > > > > unsubscribing, you can change your delivery > option by > > > > clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the home > page. > > > > > > > > Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com > > > <mailto:aquaticlife-digest%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > to receive the digest, which includes up to > 25 posts > > > at a > > > > time in a single email > > > > > > > > Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com > > > <mailto:aquaticlife-nomail%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > for the No E-Mail option where you will > still be able > > > to > > > > read messages on the group and post > replies. > > > > > > > > Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com > > > <mailto:aquaticlife-normal%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > to receive individual e-mails.Yahoo! Groups > Links > > > > > > > > > > > >     mailto:AquaticLife-fullfeatured@yahoogroups.com > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife-fullfeatured%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >      > > > > > > > > > ------------------------------------ > > > > > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it > when > > > replying, Thank You. > > > > ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> > > > ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , > .·´¯`·..><((((º> > > > PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT > that is > > > NOT important to > > > the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the > original > > > message MODIFY the SUBJECT > > > LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old > subject)" <- > > > > <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. > > > , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. > > > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this > matter. > > > > > > If you do not want all of the groups emails, > instead of > > > unsubscribing, you > > > can change your delivery option by clicking on > "Edit My > > > Membership" on the > > > home page. > > > > > > Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com > > > <mailto:aquaticlife-digest%40yahoogroups.com> > > > to receive the digest, which > > > includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single > email > > > > > > Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com > > > <mailto:aquaticlife-nomail%40yahoogroups.com> > > > for the No E-Mail option where > > > you will still be able to read messages on the > group and > > > post replies. > > > > > > Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com > > > <mailto:aquaticlife-normal%40yahoogroups.com> > > > to receive individual > > > e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ------------------------------------ > > > > > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it > when > > > replying, Thank You. > > > > ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> > > > ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , > .·´¯`·..><((((º> > > > PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT > that is > > > NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the > TOPIC of > > > the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE > -> i.e. "new > > > subject (was re: old subject)" <- > > > > <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. > > > , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. > > > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this > matter. > > > > > > If you do not want all of the groups emails, > instead of > > > unsubscribing, you can change your delivery > option by > > > clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the home > page. > > > > > > Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com > > > <mailto:aquaticlife-digest%40yahoogroups.com> > > > to receive the digest, which includes up to 25 > posts at a > > > time in a single email > > > > > > Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com > > > <mailto:aquaticlife-nomail%40yahoogroups.com> > > > for the No E-Mail option where you will still be > able to > > > read messages on the group and post replies. > > > > > > Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com > > > <mailto:aquaticlife-normal%40yahoogroups.com> > > > to receive individual e-mails.Yahoo! Groups > Links > > > > > > > > >     mailto:AquaticLife-fullfeatured@yahoogroups.com > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife-fullfeatured%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ------------------------------------ > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when > replying, Thank You. > ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> > ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> > PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is > NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of > the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new > subject (was re: old subject)" <- > <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. > , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. > > If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of > unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by > clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the home page.  > > Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com > to receive the digest, which includes up to 25 posts at a > time in a single email > > Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com > for the No E-Mail option where you will still be able to > read messages on the group and post replies. > > Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com > to receive individual e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links > > >     mailto:AquaticLife-fullfeatured@yahoogroups.com > > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 43887	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 10/16/2009
Subject: Re: The T-5 Business Len/Amber?

Okay some regular fluorescent fixtures will accept normal bulbs up to the VHO t-5's or better, it's just a matter of checking the specs on each fixture, but most now days are interchangeable, but I'm not sure fluorescent fixtures have a wattage limit like CFL ballasts do. CFL's are not interchangeable with regular fluorescent bulbs or VHO/HO bulbs, you can only use CFL bulbs on CFL fixtures and only UPTO the wattage that the ballast can run, for instance I have a retro fit kit (you buy it and put it all together) on my 125 gallon that has 4 x 65 watt CFL bulbs and 2 sets of lights run off of 1 ballast, so there are 2 ballasts under the tank that can run at max 2 x 65 watt bulbs, the next step up is 96 watts I think. There are also square pin and straight pin CFL bulbs and fixtures do not interchange on those, so read close when/if you go to buy new bulbs for a CFL fixture and make sure you get the right pin setting. Let me know if this helps clear things up ;) Amber bill 1433 wrote: > > > I'm sorry, I suppose I should have put all of this another way. > Think of it as what goes to what (watt). <g> > > What I am trying to say is that I was of the opinion that if you > wanted to move up to a T-5 or better tube then you had better have a > fixture for it but from reading on, it seems that you CAN use a > different tube provided that, first the fixture excepts the pin > alignment of that tube and second that the tube or tubes does not > exceed the given wattage of the ballast of the fixture itself. Does > any of this makes sense or am I all messed up again? Can somebody turn > on a light, please? > > Bill > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 43888	From: bill 1433	Date: 10/16/2009
Subject: Re: The T-5 Business Len/Amber?

Yes Mam! We are gettin' there. It would seem ----- before I do anything crazy---- get the fixture open apart or both and find out if I have a ballast limit on the light I have now. Why? I think if I buy a tube with too high of a wattage requirement two things would happen and either good! One, the new tube will not work at all or Two, it will work but pull too much wattage and then burn up. Right??????????? Bill --- On Fri, 10/16/09, Amber Berglund <arberglund@...> wrote: > From: Amber Berglund <arberglund@...> > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] The T-5 Business Len/Amber? > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Date: Friday, October 16, 2009, 4:51 PM > Okay some regular fluorescent > fixtures will accept normal bulbs up to > the VHO t-5's or better, it's just a matter of checking the > specs on > each fixture, but most now days are interchangeable, but > I'm not sure > fluorescent fixtures have a wattage limit like CFL ballasts > do. CFL's > are not interchangeable with regular fluorescent bulbs or > VHO/HO bulbs, > you can only use CFL bulbs on CFL fixtures and only UPTO > the wattage > that the ballast can run, for instance I have a retro fit > kit (you buy > it and put it all together) on my 125 gallon that has 4 x > 65 watt CFL > bulbs and 2 sets of lights run off of 1 ballast, so there > are 2 ballasts > under the tank that can run at max 2 x 65 watt bulbs, the > next step up > is 96 watts I think. There are also square pin and straight > pin CFL > bulbs and fixtures do not interchange on those, so read > close when/if > you go to buy new bulbs for a CFL fixture and make sure you > get the > right pin setting. > > Let me know if this helps clear things up ;) > > Amber > > bill 1433 wrote: > >  > > > > I'm sorry, I suppose I should have put all of this > another way. > > Think of it as what goes to what (watt). <g> > > > > What I am trying to say is that I was of the opinion > that if you > > wanted to move up to a T-5 or better tube then you had > better have a > > fixture for it but from reading on, it seems that you > CAN use a > > different tube provided that, first the fixture > excepts the pin > > alignment of that tube and second that the tube or > tubes does not > > exceed the given wattage of the ballast of the fixture > itself. Does > > any of this makes sense or am I all messed up again? > Can somebody turn > > on a light, please? > > > > Bill > > > > > > > ------------------------------------ > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when > replying, Thank You. > ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> > ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> > PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is > NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of > the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new > subject (was re: old subject)" <- > <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. > , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. > > If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of > unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by > clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the home page.  > > Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com > to receive the digest, which includes up to 25 posts at a > time in a single email > > Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com > for the No E-Mail option where you will still be able to > read messages on the group and post replies. > > Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com > to receive individual e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links > > >     mailto:AquaticLife-fullfeatured@yahoogroups.com > > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 43889	From: Donna Ransome	Date: 10/16/2009
Subject: Re: The T-5 Business Len/Amber?

I use compact fluorescent tubes, 6700 daylight. I avoid the actinic, I had one and removed it because I got too much algae. Once you get into the compact fluorescents and away from “regular” you don’t have all the colors to worry about, LOL. They make retrofit kits, but I just bought a new fixture. Fans all built in, etc. My 36” tank holds a single twin tube. My 72” tank has 2 fixtures, each holding two twin tubes. _____ From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of bill 1433 Sent: Friday, October 16, 2009 6:41 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] The T-5 Business Len/Amber? Yes Mam! We are gettin' there. It would seem ----- before I do anything crazy---- get the fixture open apart or both and find out if I have a ballast limit on the light I have now. Why? I think if I buy a tube with too high of a wattage requirement two things would happen and either good! One, the new tube will not work at all or Two, it will work but pull too much wattage and then burn up. Right??????????? Bill --- On Fri, 10/16/09, Amber Berglund <arberglund@gmail. <mailto:arberglund%40gmail.com> com> wrote: > From: Amber Berglund <arberglund@gmail. <mailto:arberglund%40gmail.com> com> > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] The T-5 Business Len/Amber? > To: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com > Date: Friday, October 16, 2009, 4:51 PM > Okay some regular fluorescent > fixtures will accept normal bulbs up to > the VHO t-5's or better, it's just a matter of checking the > specs on > each fixture, but most now days are interchangeable, but > I'm not sure > fluorescent fixtures have a wattage limit like CFL ballasts > do. CFL's > are not interchangeable with regular fluorescent bulbs or > VHO/HO bulbs, > you can only use CFL bulbs on CFL fixtures and only UPTO > the wattage > that the ballast can run, for instance I have a retro fit > kit (you buy > it and put it all together) on my 125 gallon that has 4 x > 65 watt CFL > bulbs and 2 sets of lights run off of 1 ballast, so there > are 2 ballasts > under the tank that can run at max 2 x 65 watt bulbs, the > next step up > is 96 watts I think. There are also square pin and straight > pin CFL > bulbs and fixtures do not interchange on those, so read > close when/if > you go to buy new bulbs for a CFL fixture and make sure you > get the > right pin setting. > > Let me know if this helps clear things up ;) > > Amber > > bill 1433 wrote: > > > > > > I'm sorry, I suppose I should have put all of this > another way. > > Think of it as what goes to what (watt). <g> > > > > What I am trying to say is that I was of the opinion > that if you > > wanted to move up to a T-5 or better tube then you had > better have a > > fixture for it but from reading on, it seems that you > CAN use a > > different tube provided that, first the fixture > excepts the pin > > alignment of that tube and second that the tube or > tubes does not > > exceed the given wattage of the ballast of the fixture > itself. Does > > any of this makes sense or am I all messed up again? > Can somebody turn > > on a light, please? > > > > Bill > > > > > > > ------------------------------------ > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when > replying, Thank You. > ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> > ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> > PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is > NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of > the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new > subject (was re: old subject)" <- > <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. > , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. > > If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of > unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by > clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the home page. > > Or e-mail aquaticlife- <mailto:aquaticlife-digest%40yahoogroups.com> digest@yahoogroups.com > to receive the digest, which includes up to 25 posts at a > time in a single email > > Or email aquaticlife- <mailto:aquaticlife-nomail%40yahoogroups.com> nomail@yahoogroups.com > for the No E-Mail option where you will still be able to > read messages on the group and post replies. > > Or email aquaticlife- <mailto:aquaticlife-normal%40yahoogroups.com> normal@yahoogroups.com > to receive individual e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links > > > mailto:AquaticLife- <mailto:AquaticLife-fullfeatured%40yahoogroups.com> fullfeatured@yahoogroups.com > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 43890	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 10/16/2009
Subject: Re: The T-5 Business Len/Amber?

That's correct open it up and see if you can find the ballast inside the light, or better yet you could email the manufacture and ask them directly? I'm thinking you will have to stick with 17 watt bulbs, but you could probably find a T-4 that is a higher output of light than the bulb/s you currently have. Did you say you have 2 x 17 watt T-4 bulbs? Amber bill 1433 wrote: > > > Yes Mam! > > We are gettin' there. It would seem ----- before I do anything crazy---- > get the fixture open apart or both and find out if I have a ballast > limit on the light I have now. Why? I think if I buy a tube with too > high of a wattage requirement two things would happen and either good! > > One, the new tube will not work at all or Two, it will work but pull > too much wattage and then burn up. > > Right??????????? > > Bill > > --- On Fri, 10/16/09, Amber Berglund <arberglund@... > <mailto:arberglund%40gmail.com>> wrote: > > > From: Amber Berglund <arberglund@... > <mailto:arberglund%40gmail.com>> > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] The T-5 Business Len/Amber? > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > Date: Friday, October 16, 2009, 4:51 PM > > Okay some regular fluorescent > > fixtures will accept normal bulbs up to > > the VHO t-5's or better, it's just a matter of checking the > > specs on > > each fixture, but most now days are interchangeable, but > > I'm not sure > > fluorescent fixtures have a wattage limit like CFL ballasts > > do. CFL's > > are not interchangeable with regular fluorescent bulbs or > > VHO/HO bulbs, > > you can only use CFL bulbs on CFL fixtures and only UPTO > > the wattage > > that the ballast can run, for instance I have a retro fit > > kit (you buy > > it and put it all together) on my 125 gallon that has 4 x > > 65 watt CFL > > bulbs and 2 sets of lights run off of 1 ballast, so there > > are 2 ballasts > > under the tank that can run at max 2 x 65 watt bulbs, the > > next step up > > is 96 watts I think. There are also square pin and straight > > pin CFL > > bulbs and fixtures do not interchange on those, so read > > close when/if > > you go to buy new bulbs for a CFL fixture and make sure you > > get the > > right pin setting. > > > > Let me know if this helps clear things up ;) > > > > Amber > > > > bill 1433 wrote: > > > > > > > > > I'm sorry, I suppose I should have put all of this > > another way. > > > Think of it as what goes to what (watt). <g> > > > > > > What I am trying to say is that I was of the opinion > > that if you > > > wanted to move up to a T-5 or better tube then you had > > better have a > > > fixture for it but from reading on, it seems that you > > CAN use a > > > different tube provided that, first the fixture > > excepts the pin > > > alignment of that tube and second that the tube or > > tubes does not > > > exceed the given wattage of the ballast of the fixture > > itself. Does > > > any of this makes sense or am I all messed up again? > > Can somebody turn > > > on a light, please? > > > > > > Bill > > > > > > > > > > > > ------------------------------------ > > > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when > > replying, Thank You. > > ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> > > ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> > > PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is > > NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of > > the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new > > subject (was re: old subject)" <- > > <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. > > , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. > > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. > > > > If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of > > unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by > > clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the home page. > > > > Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:aquaticlife-digest%40yahoogroups.com> > > to receive the digest, which includes up to 25 posts at a > > time in a single email > > > > Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:aquaticlife-nomail%40yahoogroups.com> > > for the No E-Mail option where you will still be able to > > read messages on the group and post replies. > > > > Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:aquaticlife-normal%40yahoogroups.com> > > to receive individual e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > mailto:AquaticLife-fullfeatured@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife-fullfeatured%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 43891	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 10/16/2009
Subject: Re: OOPS re green water

If it's those new LED fixtures, those save a LOT of money in electricity also... in several ways... but read on, as I still don't think that justifies the current prices. LED's use only a fraction of a watt so even if there are dozens or hundreds of LED's in a really BIG Reef Lighting system, it only uses about the same electricity as a relatively small fluorescent fixture. In the past, when they had to use Halogen or Metal Halide, they not only had a LOT of power usage but also a LOT of heat and since SW tanks need to be cooler, some SW fish keepers had to buy chillers which used even more electricity. I'm sure the LED fixture manufacturers price them just cheap enough to make it worthwhile from a cost savings viewpoint... even though LED's are SO CHEAP, they could probably make the fixtures for the same price as normal fluorescent fixtures but until the market place demands lower prices, they'll keep them as high as they can... ahhhh.. capitalism at it's finest!!! Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of sevenspringss@... Sent: Friday, October 16, 2009 12:31 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] OOPS re green water Bill, Since you mentioned Drs Foster & Smith, I became curious and checked one of my most resent catalogs. You mentioned these fixtures could cost in the hundreds of dollars -- I saw a couple over $1000 and two more well over $1300. One of these was ON SALE (LOL) -- regularly $1599.99 ($1600 + shipping). While I might be persuaded to say that's LUDICROUS, a more accurate description would be that it's absolutely INSANE ! You could probably replace the best of plants 20 times over (or more) as a conservative estimate using ordinary flourescent lighting, if those plants failed, and not have to be concerned that you'd ever spend any more than such a fixture. Ray

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 43892	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 10/16/2009
Subject: Re: OOPS re green water

Well, if you bring the bulb to your local Wally-World, you should see identical sized tubes and they'll have T-numbers so you'll then know. You probably have standard tubes but you need to compare it to something at a store that has the right numbers on the packaging so you'll know. Or maybe if you measure the length and circumference, someone else with a 24" fixture could tell you. I do not have a 24" fixture at home right now... it's in storage. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of bill 1433 Sent: Friday, October 16, 2009 3:44 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] OOPS re green water Just answered the other post! We must be playing "mail tag" today. You just hit on the part I can't get or figure------the T part. This bulb has no markings for that or about that. Would that it did, my quest would be much easier because this is the part where part of my confusion is coming from. Bill --- On Fri, 10/16/09, Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@...> wrote: > From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@...> > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] OOPS re green water > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Date: Friday, October 16, 2009, 3:57 PM Bill, > > I was answering Lainey.  I think you have another thread going with > your questions and I know I just sent you a reply a few minutes ago.  > But Bill, I think you may have a T-8 17W 24" long bulb... right? > It should have more > writing on the tube, such as the T-__ number and the manufacturer.. > unless it was some off-brand generic type bulb. > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles > referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically > under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) > > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] > On > Behalf Of bill 1433 > Sent: Friday, October 16, 2009 2:18 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] OOPS re green water > > Standard ----------well maybe!  The tube I have has > two pins on each end > just like a 48" standard shop light only thinner. > They come in at 17 watts, that is stamped on the tube. > > Bill > > --- On Fri, 10/16/09, Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@...> > wrote: > > > From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@...> > > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] OOPS re green water > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > Date: Friday, October 16, 2009, 2:37 PM Long straight > tubes with pins > > on each end?  Many other bulbs also have pins but > CFL's only have them > > on one end and the tube usually makes a U-turn and > comes back to the > > same fitting.  They should have a brand and item > number on them... or > > something else... but they are probably just standard > fluorescent > > tubes.  You would have to turn the fixture over and > look at the > > bulbs... > > maybe even removing one to look for the writing on the > glass on one > > end of the tube.  It might/should even have a T-__ > code which is a > > standard coding now for fluorescent tubes. > > > > You need to know this information as, depending on the > > > brand/type/etc., you might have to replace these bulbs > every six > > months or so. > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to > any articles > > referenced in above reply are listed on the right > side, alphabetically > > under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) > >  > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] > > On > > Behalf Of Lainey Alexander > > Sent: Friday, October 16, 2009 10:17 AM > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] OOPS re green water > > > > Lenny - > > > > As far as I know, I have regular standard > fluorescents, > > they are the ones > > with the pins - 65 watts, two bulbs, 6700k each. > > > > Lainey > > http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com > > > > On Oct 16, 2009, at 1:16 AM, Lenny V. aka GoldLenny > wrote: > > > > > Lets see... my first thoughts would be... > > > > > > http://images.veer.com/IMG/PILL/MAI/MAI0002683_P.JPG > > > > > > (maybe without the Parrot as an eye witness... > lol... > > ;-)) > > > > > > It's good to hear you have a 30" x 12" footprint > but > > you need to quit > > > using the "depth" term for the front to back > > measurement, although > > > that is a common term to use for measuring other > > physical items, for > > > aquariums, because of the water, "depth" can > easily be > > misconstrued to > > > be the depth of the water. This is why the > standard > > for aquarium > > > measurement is L x W x H (Length by Width by > Height). > > I know the > > > "width" part can be confusing also since that > would be > > the long sides > > > of most aquarium where we commonly use the long > sides > > as the length > > > and the front to back measurement as the width. > > > Don't ask me who invented this standard. LOL > > > > > > At least with the 30" x 12" footprint and only > 23" > > tall and your tank > > > is still based on the same footprint as a 20G but > at > > least it's a 20G > > > LONG footprint instead of a regular 20G > footprint. > > It's also not > > > nearly as tall as what you originally said was a > 30" > > tall tank so this > > > makes your lighting more practical... BUT... you > still > > DO NOT need 5" > > > to 7" of gravel. > > > Still > > > cut this back to 2" to 3". > > > > > > I do not recall if you ever listed details on > your > > lighting other than > > > saying you had two 65W fluorescent bulbs. Are > they > > standard > > > fluorescent bulbs... long single tubes with two > pins > > on each end? Look > > > on the bulbs for any item numbers, brand names, > etc. > > and let us know. > > > From what I can see on the net, it looks like > you > > could either have > > > 65W CFL's instead of standard fluorescent bulbs > but > > they do also have > > > a T-10 65W Fluorescent tube. While they are both > > called 65W (watt), > > > the CFL's would put out 2-3 times more light > (lumens) > > than standard > > > fluorescent tubes. > > > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to > > any articles > > > referenced in above reply are listed on the > right > > side, alphabetically > > > under Labels and also under Archives by Year, > > > Month) > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] > > On Behalf Of Lainey Alexander > > > Sent: Thursday, October 15, 2009 8:38 PM > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > > Subject: [AquaticLife] OOPS re green water > > > > > > I just realized that I completely goofed on > these > > measurements > > > (below), which is why everyone has been so > adamant > > about my crazy tank > > > shape! > > > > > > The height is 23, the WIDTH is 30 and the depth > is > > 12. > > > > > > I'm so sorry to make everyone talk about > something > > that was incorrect > > > this whole time. But now, can you all let me know > if > > this is a much > > > more reasonable depth please? Does this change > my > > bioload issues at > > > all? > > > Does it > > > change the appropriateness of my lights? > > > > > > In five weeks several of my plants are near the > top of > > the water, so I > > > think they must be fairly happy with the light. > > > > > > My apologies for being careless. > > > > > > Lainey > > > > > > > > > > > Tank measurements are 30 high, 23 wide and > 12 > > deep. > > > > > > > > Fluorescent lights, 2 @65 watts and 6700k - > on 12 > > and off 12 > > > which is > > > > what I have been told my plants require... > > > > > > > > I used Activ-Flora gravel, and this > contains > > non-nitrogen fertilizer > > > > plus "instant-cycling" bacteria > > > > > > > > Not dosing with any chemicals or ferts > > > > > > > > ***

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 43893	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 10/16/2009
Subject: Re: OOPS re green water

Also, in our generally overstocked tanks, compared to nature, we would get LOTS of algae with natural sunlight. The artificial lighting, and being able to control it, is one of our lines of defense in our quest against the dreaded algae. ;-) Even in ponds, where most people have them overstocked as well, algae is a MAJOR problem and usually we have to have floating plants covering any where from 50% to 75% of the surface to help with the nutrient uptake and to block out the sun. Of course, unlike Mike, the rest of us do not live in a luxury top floor penthouse apartment with a sunroof over the fish tanks... which is another reason we need light fixtures. ;-) Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Deenerz@... Sent: Friday, October 16, 2009 4:15 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] OOPS re green water So with all these expensive trick lighting systems I am guessing these plants cannot survive in plain old sunlight ;) it just cracks me up that we spend so much to try and imitate the sun. I do get it, an artificial environment requires artificial light. -Mike -----Original Message----- From: sevenspringss@... To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Fri, Oct 16, 2009 10:30 am Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] OOPS re green water Bill, Since you mentioned Drs Foster & Smith, I became curious and checked one of my most resent catalogs. You mentioned these fixtures could cost in the hundreds of dollars -- I saw a couple over $1000 and two more well over $1300. One of these was ON SALE (LOL) -- regularly $1599.99 ($1600 + shipping). While I might be persuaded to say that's LUDICROUS, a more accurate description would be that it's absolutely INSANE ! You could probably replace the best of plants 20 times over (or more) as a conservative estimate using ordinary flourescent lighting, if those plants failed, and not have to be concerned that you'd ever spend any more than such a fixture. Ray

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 43894	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 10/16/2009
Subject: Re: OOPS re green water

Oops.. there goes my theory that you lived in a top floor penthouse apartment with a sun roof over your tanks. ;-) Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Deenerz@... Sent: Friday, October 16, 2009 4:42 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] OOPS re green water Gold plated, now I know why everyone is selling their scrap gold :) I would like to have better lighting as I love red plants which generally require better lighting than I will spend money on. I just got a really good deal on an Eclipse 3 hood for a 29 to 37 gallon aquarium. More light than I usually put over a tank. I have a 37 gallon tank and a stand for it. Just won about 8 plants at my club auction for $9.00 and now all I am waiting on is some better substrate than I am usually willing to spend money on. Come on payday! -Mike -----Original Message----- From: Amber Berglund <arberglund@...> To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Fri, Oct 16, 2009 2:17 pm Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] OOPS re green water Maybe the lighting fixture is made of gold? LOL. I could never spend that much on a fixture. Mine was pushing my limits as it was and I spent somewhere close to 300 on it I think (was months ago now), I used Bill-me-later on marinedepot.com to get it, so I could make payments on the light. But I must say, I love it. One plug, timer included, and night lights, and more than enough light for my 55 gallon tank. Amber Deenerz@... wrote: > > > So with all these expensive trick lighting systems I am guessing these > plants cannot survive in plain old sunlight ;) > > it just cracks me up that we spend so much to try and imitate the sun. > > I do get it, an artificial environment requires artificial light. > > -Mike > > -----Original Message----- > From: sevenspringss@... <mailto:sevenspringss%40wmconnect.com> > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Sent: Fri, Oct 16, 2009 10:30 am > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] OOPS re green water > > Bill, Since you mentioned Drs Foster & Smith, I became curious and > checked one of my most resent catalogs. You mentioned these fixtures > could cost > in > the hundreds of dollars -- I saw a couple over $1000 and two more well > over $1300. One of these was ON SALE (LOL) -- regularly $1599.99 > ($1600 + shipping). While I might be persuaded to say that's > LUDICROUS, a more accurate description would be that it's absolutely > INSANE ! You could probably replace the best of plants 20 times over > (or more) as a conservative estimate using ordinary flourescent > lighting, if those plants failed, and not have to be concerned that > you'd ever spend any more than such a fixture. Ray >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 43895	From: kuradi8	Date: 10/16/2009
Subject: Re: OOPS re green water

These will fit into 55g hoods with a little creative mounting. And you'll have two left over for under your cabinets. http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=220494240237 ~Kai --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@...> wrote: > > If it's those new LED fixtures, those save a LOT of money in electricity > also... in several ways... but read on, as I still don't think that > justifies the current prices. > > LED's use only a fraction of a watt so even if there are dozens or hundreds > of LED's in a really BIG Reef Lighting system, it only uses about the same > electricity as a relatively small fluorescent fixture. In the past, when > they had to use Halogen or Metal Halide, they not only had a LOT of power > usage but also a LOT of heat and since SW tanks need to be cooler, some SW > fish keepers had to buy chillers which used even more electricity. I'm sure > the LED fixture manufacturers price them just cheap enough to make it > worthwhile from a cost savings viewpoint... even though LED's are SO CHEAP, > they could probably make the fixtures for the same price as normal > fluorescent fixtures but until the market place demands lower prices, > they'll keep them as high as they can... ahhhh.. capitalism at it's > finest!!! > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right > side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On > Behalf Of sevenspringss@... > Sent: Friday, October 16, 2009 12:31 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] OOPS re green water > > Bill, Since you mentioned Drs Foster & Smith, I became curious and checked > one of my most resent catalogs. You mentioned these fixtures could cost in > the hundreds of dollars -- I saw a couple over $1000 and two more well over > $1300. One of these was ON SALE (LOL) -- regularly $1599.99 ($1600 + > shipping). While I might be persuaded to say that's LUDICROUS, a more > accurate description would be that it's absolutely INSANE ! You could > probably replace the best of plants 20 times over (or more) as a > conservative estimate using ordinary flourescent lighting, if those plants > failed, and not have to be concerned that you'd ever spend any more than > such a fixture. Ray >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 43896	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 10/16/2009
Subject: Re: OOPS re green water

Well then just subtract the sun roof and you might still have a decent theory ;) LOL Amber Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > > > Oops.. there goes my theory that you lived in a top floor penthouse > apartment with a sun roof over your tanks. ;-) > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right > side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) > > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On > Behalf Of Deenerz@... <mailto:Deenerz%40aol.com> > Sent: Friday, October 16, 2009 4:42 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] OOPS re green water > > Gold plated, now I know why everyone is selling their scrap gold :) > > I would like to have better lighting as I love red plants which generally > require better lighting than I will spend money on. > > I just got a really good deal on an Eclipse 3 hood for a 29 to 37 gallon > aquarium. More light than I usually put over a tank. > I have a 37 gallon tank and a stand for it. > Just won about 8 plants at my club auction for $9.00 and now all I am > waiting on is some better substrate than I am usually willing to spend > money > on. > > Come on payday! > > -Mike > > -----Original Message----- > From: Amber Berglund <arberglund@... > <mailto:arberglund%40gmail.com>> > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Sent: Fri, Oct 16, 2009 2:17 pm > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] OOPS re green water > > Maybe the lighting fixture is made of gold? LOL. > I could never spend that much on a fixture. Mine was pushing my limits > as it > was and I spent somewhere close to 300 on it I think (was months ago > now), I > used Bill-me-later on marinedepot.com to get it, so I could make > payments on > the light. But I must say, I love it. One plug, timer included, and night > lights, and more than enough light for my 55 gallon tank. > > Amber > > Deenerz@... <mailto:Deenerz%40aol.com> wrote: > > > > > > So with all these expensive trick lighting systems I am guessing these > > plants cannot survive in plain old sunlight ;) > > > > it just cracks me up that we spend so much to try and imitate the sun. > > > > I do get it, an artificial environment requires artificial light. > > > > -Mike > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: sevenspringss@... <mailto:sevenspringss%40wmconnect.com> > <mailto:sevenspringss%40wmconnect.com> > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > Sent: Fri, Oct 16, 2009 10:30 am > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] OOPS re green water > > > > Bill, Since you mentioned Drs Foster & Smith, I became curious and > > checked one of my most resent catalogs. You mentioned these fixtures > > could > cost > > in > > the hundreds of dollars -- I saw a couple over $1000 and two more well > > over $1300. One of these was ON SALE (LOL) -- regularly $1599.99 > > ($1600 + shipping). While I might be persuaded to say that's > > LUDICROUS, a more accurate description would be that it's absolutely > > INSANE ! You could probably replace the best of plants 20 times over > > (or more) as a conservative estimate using ordinary flourescent > > lighting, if those plants failed, and not have to be concerned that > > you'd ever spend any more than such a fixture. Ray > > > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 43897	From: Lainey Alexander	Date: 10/16/2009
Subject: Re: OOPS re green water

All I can see is "coralife 65 watt 6700k" - each bulb has two tubes, and they don't quite make a U turn but they are connected by a small bridge that seems to be part of the bulb itself. Does this tell us anything? Lainey http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com On Oct 16, 2009, at 2:37 PM, Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > Long straight tubes with pins on each end? Many other bulbs also > have pins > but CFL's only have them on one end and the tube usually makes a U- > turn and > comes back to the same fitting. They should have a brand and item > number on > them... or something else... but they are probably just standard > fluorescent > tubes. You would have to turn the fixture over and look at the > bulbs... > maybe even removing one to look for the writing on the glass on one > end of > the tube. It might/should even have a T-__ code which is a standard > coding > now for fluorescent tubes. > > You need to know this information as, depending on the brand/type/ > etc., you > might have to replace these bulbs every six months or so. > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the > right > side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, > Month) > > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On > Behalf Of Lainey Alexander > Sent: Friday, October 16, 2009 10:17 AM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] OOPS re green water > > Lenny - > > As far as I know, I have regular standard fluorescents, they are > the ones > with the pins - 65 watts, two bulbs, 6700k each. > > Lainey > http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com > > On Oct 16, 2009, at 1:16 AM, Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > > > Lets see... my first thoughts would be... > > > > http://images.veer.com/IMG/PILL/MAI/MAI0002683_P.JPG > > > > (maybe without the Parrot as an eye witness... lol... ;-)) > > > > It's good to hear you have a 30" x 12" footprint but you need to > quit > > using the "depth" term for the front to back measurement, although > > that is a common term to use for measuring other physical items, for > > aquariums, because of the water, "depth" can easily be > misconstrued to > > be the depth of the water. This is why the standard for aquarium > > measurement is L x W x H (Length by Width by Height). I know the > > "width" part can be confusing also since that would be the long > sides > > of most aquarium where we commonly use the long sides as the length > > and the front to back measurement as the width. > > Don't ask me who invented this standard. LOL > > > > At least with the 30" x 12" footprint and only 23" tall and your > tank > > is still based on the same footprint as a 20G but at least it's a > 20G > > LONG footprint instead of a regular 20G footprint. It's also not > > nearly as tall as what you originally said was a 30" tall tank so > this > > makes your lighting more practical... BUT... you still DO NOT > need 5" > > to 7" of gravel. > > Still > > cut this back to 2" to 3". > > > > I do not recall if you ever listed details on your lighting other > than > > saying you had two 65W fluorescent bulbs. Are they standard > > fluorescent bulbs... long single tubes with two pins on each end? > Look > > on the bulbs for any item numbers, brand names, etc. and let us > know. > > From what I can see on the net, it looks like you could either have > > 65W CFL's instead of standard fluorescent bulbs but they do also > have > > a T-10 65W Fluorescent tube. While they are both called 65W (watt), > > the CFL's would put out 2-3 times more light (lumens) than standard > > fluorescent tubes. > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles > > referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, > alphabetically > > under Labels and also under Archives by Year, > > Month) > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Lainey Alexander > > Sent: Thursday, October 15, 2009 8:38 PM > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > Subject: [AquaticLife] OOPS re green water > > > > I just realized that I completely goofed on these measurements > > (below), which is why everyone has been so adamant about my crazy > tank > > shape! > > > > The height is 23, the WIDTH is 30 and the depth is 12. > > > > I'm so sorry to make everyone talk about something that was > incorrect > > this whole time. But now, can you all let me know if this is a much > > more reasonable depth please? Does this change my bioload issues at > > all? > > Does it > > change the appropriateness of my lights? > > > > In five weeks several of my plants are near the top of the water, > so I > > think they must be fairly happy with the light. > > > > My apologies for being careless. > > > > Lainey > > > > > > > > Tank measurements are 30 high, 23 wide and 12 deep. > > > > > > Fluorescent lights, 2 @65 watts and 6700k - on 12 and off 12 > > which is > > > what I have been told my plants require... > > > > > > I used Activ-Flora gravel, and this contains non-nitrogen > fertilizer > > > plus "instant-cycling" bacteria > > > > > > Not dosing with any chemicals or ferts > > > > > > *** > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 43898	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 10/16/2009
Subject: Re: OOPS re green water

The only algae I really hate is the "black beard algae" it's like scraping off a fur coat from an animal I swear. I had no luck against it with hydrogen peroxide, and I can't use it in my snail/cherry shrimp tank at all, so I just watch the beard grow more every week and pluck off what I can from plants without killing them off ;) LOL. I think I'm going to have to soak my driftwood in hydrogen peroxide but it has wisteria growing off of it (it was floating but decided it wanted to root into the driftwood, and I left it because it looked neat growing there). Once I soak it and get some of the black beard algae off of it I think I'm going to finally sink the driftwood (it's still floating on the surface, has been for a few months now, never sank for some reason, maybe it will eventually or it needs some help from a heavy rock, LOL). Maybe I should ask the hubby to put in a sun roof where it leaks, too bad the condo association wouldn't like that ;) Amber Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > > > Also, in our generally overstocked tanks, compared to nature, we would get > LOTS of algae with natural sunlight. The artificial lighting, and being > able to control it, is one of our lines of defense in our quest > against the > dreaded algae. ;-) > > Even in ponds, where most people have them overstocked as well, algae is a > MAJOR problem and usually we have to have floating plants covering any > where > from 50% to 75% of the surface to help with the nutrient uptake and to > block > out the sun. > > Of course, unlike Mike, the rest of us do not live in a luxury top floor > penthouse apartment with a sunroof over the fish tanks... which is another > reason we need light fixtures. ;-) > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right > side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On > Behalf Of Deenerz@... <mailto:Deenerz%40aol.com> > Sent: Friday, October 16, 2009 4:15 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] OOPS re green water > > So with all these expensive trick lighting systems I am guessing these > plants cannot survive in plain old sunlight ;) > > it just cracks me up that we spend so much to try and imitate the sun. > > I do get it, an artificial environment requires artificial light. > > -Mike > > -----Original Message----- > From: sevenspringss@... <mailto:sevenspringss%40wmconnect.com> > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Sent: Fri, Oct 16, 2009 10:30 am > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] OOPS re green water > > Bill, Since you mentioned Drs Foster & Smith, I became curious and checked > one of my most resent catalogs. You mentioned these fixtures could cost in > the hundreds of dollars -- I saw a couple over $1000 and two more well > over > $1300. One of these was ON SALE (LOL) -- regularly $1599.99 ($1600 + > shipping). While I might be persuaded to say that's LUDICROUS, a more > accurate description would be that it's absolutely INSANE ! You could > probably replace the best of plants 20 times over (or more) as a > conservative estimate using ordinary flourescent lighting, if those plants > failed, and not have to be concerned that you'd ever spend any more than > such a fixture. Ray > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 43899	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 10/16/2009
Subject: Re: OOPS re green water

those are CFL bulbs, so you have more than enough lighting for your 37 gallon if you have 1 bulb on each side of the tank. Amber Lainey Alexander wrote: > > > All I can see is "coralife 65 watt 6700k" - each bulb has two tubes, > and they don't quite make a U turn but they are connected by a small > bridge that seems to be part of the bulb itself. Does this tell us > anything? > > Lainey > http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com <http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com> > > On Oct 16, 2009, at 2:37 PM, Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > > > Long straight tubes with pins on each end? Many other bulbs also > > have pins > > but CFL's only have them on one end and the tube usually makes a U- > > turn and > > comes back to the same fitting. They should have a brand and item > > number on > > them... or something else... but they are probably just standard > > fluorescent > > tubes. You would have to turn the fixture over and look at the > > bulbs... > > maybe even removing one to look for the writing on the glass on one > > end of > > the tube. It might/should even have a T-__ code which is a standard > > coding > > now for fluorescent tubes. > > > > You need to know this information as, depending on the brand/type/ > > etc., you > > might have to replace these bulbs every six months or so. > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the > > right > > side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, > > Month) > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On > > Behalf Of Lainey Alexander > > Sent: Friday, October 16, 2009 10:17 AM > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] OOPS re green water > > > > Lenny - > > > > As far as I know, I have regular standard fluorescents, they are > > the ones > > with the pins - 65 watts, two bulbs, 6700k each. > > > > Lainey > > http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com <http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com> > > > > On Oct 16, 2009, at 1:16 AM, Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > > > > > Lets see... my first thoughts would be... > > > > > > http://images.veer.com/IMG/PILL/MAI/MAI0002683_P.JPG > <http://images.veer.com/IMG/PILL/MAI/MAI0002683_P.JPG> > > > > > > (maybe without the Parrot as an eye witness... lol... ;-)) > > > > > > It's good to hear you have a 30" x 12" footprint but you need to > > quit > > > using the "depth" term for the front to back measurement, although > > > that is a common term to use for measuring other physical items, for > > > aquariums, because of the water, "depth" can easily be > > misconstrued to > > > be the depth of the water. This is why the standard for aquarium > > > measurement is L x W x H (Length by Width by Height). I know the > > > "width" part can be confusing also since that would be the long > > sides > > > of most aquarium where we commonly use the long sides as the length > > > and the front to back measurement as the width. > > > Don't ask me who invented this standard. LOL > > > > > > At least with the 30" x 12" footprint and only 23" tall and your > > tank > > > is still based on the same footprint as a 20G but at least it's a > > 20G > > > LONG footprint instead of a regular 20G footprint. It's also not > > > nearly as tall as what you originally said was a 30" tall tank so > > this > > > makes your lighting more practical... BUT... you still DO NOT > > need 5" > > > to 7" of gravel. > > > Still > > > cut this back to 2" to 3". > > > > > > I do not recall if you ever listed details on your lighting other > > than > > > saying you had two 65W fluorescent bulbs. Are they standard > > > fluorescent bulbs... long single tubes with two pins on each end? > > Look > > > on the bulbs for any item numbers, brand names, etc. and let us > > know. > > > From what I can see on the net, it looks like you could either have > > > 65W CFL's instead of standard fluorescent bulbs but they do also > > have > > > a T-10 65W Fluorescent tube. While they are both called 65W (watt), > > > the CFL's would put out 2-3 times more light (lumens) than standard > > > fluorescent tubes. > > > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> (Links to any articles > > > referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, > > alphabetically > > > under Labels and also under Archives by Year, > > > Month) > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On Behalf Of Lainey Alexander > > > Sent: Thursday, October 15, 2009 8:38 PM > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > Subject: [AquaticLife] OOPS re green water > > > > > > I just realized that I completely goofed on these measurements > > > (below), which is why everyone has been so adamant about my crazy > > tank > > > shape! > > > > > > The height is 23, the WIDTH is 30 and the depth is 12. > > > > > > I'm so sorry to make everyone talk about something that was > > incorrect > > > this whole time. But now, can you all let me know if this is a much > > > more reasonable depth please? Does this change my bioload issues at > > > all? > > > Does it > > > change the appropriateness of my lights? > > > > > > In five weeks several of my plants are near the top of the water, > > so I > > > think they must be fairly happy with the light. > > > > > > My apologies for being careless. > > > > > > Lainey > > > > > > > > > > > Tank measurements are 30 high, 23 wide and 12 deep. > > > > > > > > Fluorescent lights, 2 @65 watts and 6700k - on 12 and off 12 > > > which is > > > > what I have been told my plants require... > > > > > > > > I used Activ-Flora gravel, and this contains non-nitrogen > > fertilizer > > > > plus "instant-cycling" bacteria > > > > > > > > Not dosing with any chemicals or ferts > > > > > > > > *** > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 43900	From: Lainey Alexander	Date: 10/16/2009
Subject: Re: OOPS re green water

Thanks, Amber - they are tubes that reach the length of the tank. Lainey http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com On Oct 16, 2009, at 9:35 PM, Amber Berglund wrote: > those are CFL bulbs, so you have more than enough lighting for your 37 > gallon if you have 1 bulb on each side of the tank. > > Amber > > Lainey Alexander wrote: > > > > > > All I can see is "coralife 65 watt 6700k" - each bulb has two tubes, > > and they don't quite make a U turn but they are connected by a small > > bridge that seems to be part of the bulb itself. Does this tell us > > anything? > > > > Lainey > > http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com <http:// > www.grasslandsgouldians.com> > > > > On Oct 16, 2009, at 2:37 PM, Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > > > > > Long straight tubes with pins on each end? Many other bulbs also > > > have pins > > > but CFL's only have them on one end and the tube usually makes > a U- > > > turn and > > > comes back to the same fitting. They should have a brand and item > > > number on > > > them... or something else... but they are probably just standard > > > fluorescent > > > tubes. You would have to turn the fixture over and look at the > > > bulbs... > > > maybe even removing one to look for the writing on the glass on > one > > > end of > > > the tube. It might/should even have a T-__ code which is a > standard > > > coding > > > now for fluorescent tubes. > > > > > > You need to know this information as, depending on the brand/type/ > > > etc., you > > > might have to replace these bulbs every six months or so. > > > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the > > > right > > > side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, > > > Month) > > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On > > > Behalf Of Lainey Alexander > > > Sent: Friday, October 16, 2009 10:17 AM > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife% > 40yahoogroups.com> > > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] OOPS re green water > > > > > > Lenny - > > > > > > As far as I know, I have regular standard fluorescents, they are > > > the ones > > > with the pins - 65 watts, two bulbs, 6700k each. > > > > > > Lainey > > > http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com <http:// > www.grasslandsgouldians.com> > > > > > > On Oct 16, 2009, at 1:16 AM, Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > > > > > > > Lets see... my first thoughts would be... > > > > > > > > http://images.veer.com/IMG/PILL/MAI/MAI0002683_P.JPG > > <http://images.veer.com/IMG/PILL/MAI/MAI0002683_P.JPG> > > > > > > > > (maybe without the Parrot as an eye witness... lol... ;-)) > > > > > > > > It's good to hear you have a 30" x 12" footprint but you need to > > > quit > > > > using the "depth" term for the front to back measurement, > although > > > > that is a common term to use for measuring other physical > items, for > > > > aquariums, because of the water, "depth" can easily be > > > misconstrued to > > > > be the depth of the water. This is why the standard for aquarium > > > > measurement is L x W x H (Length by Width by Height). I know the > > > > "width" part can be confusing also since that would be the long > > > sides > > > > of most aquarium where we commonly use the long sides as the > length > > > > and the front to back measurement as the width. > > > > Don't ask me who invented this standard. LOL > > > > > > > > At least with the 30" x 12" footprint and only 23" tall and your > > > tank > > > > is still based on the same footprint as a 20G but at least > it's a > > > 20G > > > > LONG footprint instead of a regular 20G footprint. It's also not > > > > nearly as tall as what you originally said was a 30" tall > tank so > > > this > > > > makes your lighting more practical... BUT... you still DO NOT > > > need 5" > > > > to 7" of gravel. > > > > Still > > > > cut this back to 2" to 3". > > > > > > > > I do not recall if you ever listed details on your lighting > other > > > than > > > > saying you had two 65W fluorescent bulbs. Are they standard > > > > fluorescent bulbs... long single tubes with two pins on each > end? > > > Look > > > > on the bulbs for any item numbers, brand names, etc. and let us > > > know. > > > > From what I can see on the net, it looks like you could > either have > > > > 65W CFL's instead of standard fluorescent bulbs but they do also > > > have > > > > a T-10 65W Fluorescent tube. While they are both called 65W > (watt), > > > > the CFL's would put out 2-3 times more light (lumens) than > standard > > > > fluorescent tubes. > > > > > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> (Links to any articles > > > > referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, > > > alphabetically > > > > under Labels and also under Archives by Year, > > > > Month) > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On Behalf Of Lainey > Alexander > > > > Sent: Thursday, October 15, 2009 8:38 PM > > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife% > 40yahoogroups.com> > > > > Subject: [AquaticLife] OOPS re green water > > > > > > > > I just realized that I completely goofed on these measurements > > > > (below), which is why everyone has been so adamant about my > crazy > > > tank > > > > shape! > > > > > > > > The height is 23, the WIDTH is 30 and the depth is 12. > > > > > > > > I'm so sorry to make everyone talk about something that was > > > incorrect > > > > this whole time. But now, can you all let me know if this is > a much > > > > more reasonable depth please? Does this change my bioload > issues at > > > > all? > > > > Does it > > > > change the appropriateness of my lights? > > > > > > > > In five weeks several of my plants are near the top of the > water, > > > so I > > > > think they must be fairly happy with the light. > > > > > > > > My apologies for being careless. > > > > > > > > Lainey > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Tank measurements are 30 high, 23 wide and 12 deep. > > > > > > > > > > Fluorescent lights, 2 @65 watts and 6700k - on 12 and off 12 > > > > which is > > > > > what I have been told my plants require... > > > > > > > > > > I used Activ-Flora gravel, and this contains non-nitrogen > > > fertilizer > > > > > plus "instant-cycling" bacteria > > > > > > > > > > Not dosing with any chemicals or ferts > > > > > > > > > > *** > > > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 43901	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 10/16/2009
Subject: Re: OOPS re green water

Yes but those would not be a good spectrum for plants, looks like it's more of a 10000 kelvin instead of 6500-6700 which is preferable to have at least some of for plants, they will survive under 10000 but they thrive better with mixed lighting as plants use more lighting than just one spectrum, they actually use blue, red, and yellow/white. The only color they don't use is green, so when you look at a box for a light bulb you will see a little color chart of what color the bulb puts out (it's spectrum range), you want more red/blue and hardly any green, a lot of lights have a lot of green output and plants just reflect the light back out, so it makes them look greener but it doesn't do anything for the plant at all. Amber kuradi8 wrote: > > > These will fit into 55g hoods with a little creative mounting. And > you'll have two left over for under your cabinets. > http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=220494240237 > <http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=220494240237> > ~Kai > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>, "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" > <GoldLenny@...> wrote: > > > > If it's those new LED fixtures, those save a LOT of money in electricity > > also... in several ways... but read on, as I still don't think that > > justifies the current prices. > > > > LED's use only a fraction of a watt so even if there are dozens or > hundreds > > of LED's in a really BIG Reef Lighting system, it only uses about > the same > > electricity as a relatively small fluorescent fixture. In the past, when > > they had to use Halogen or Metal Halide, they not only had a LOT of > power > > usage but also a LOT of heat and since SW tanks need to be cooler, > some SW > > fish keepers had to buy chillers which used even more electricity. > I'm sure > > the LED fixture manufacturers price them just cheap enough to make it > > worthwhile from a cost savings viewpoint... even though LED's are SO > CHEAP, > > they could probably make the fixtures for the same price as normal > > fluorescent fixtures but until the market place demands lower prices, > > they'll keep them as high as they can... ahhhh.. capitalism at it's > > finest!!! > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right > > side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, > Month) > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On > > Behalf Of sevenspringss@... > > Sent: Friday, October 16, 2009 12:31 PM > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] OOPS re green water > > > > Bill, Since you mentioned Drs Foster & Smith, I became curious and > checked > > one of my most resent catalogs. You mentioned these fixtures could > cost in > > the hundreds of dollars -- I saw a couple over $1000 and two more > well over > > $1300. One of these was ON SALE (LOL) -- regularly $1599.99 ($1600 + > > shipping). While I might be persuaded to say that's LUDICROUS, a more > > accurate description would be that it's absolutely INSANE ! You could > > probably replace the best of plants 20 times over (or more) as a > > conservative estimate using ordinary flourescent lighting, if those > plants > > failed, and not have to be concerned that you'd ever spend any more than > > such a fixture. Ray > > > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 43902	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 10/16/2009
Subject: Re: OOPS re green water

Is it 2 tubes that run the length of the light fixture or 1 bulb (that looks like a double bulb and connects on each end, but only has 1 connector to plug into the fixture)? Amber Lainey Alexander wrote: > > > Thanks, Amber - they are tubes that reach the length of the tank. > > Lainey > http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com <http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com> > > On Oct 16, 2009, at 9:35 PM, Amber Berglund wrote: > > > those are CFL bulbs, so you have more than enough lighting for your 37 > > gallon if you have 1 bulb on each side of the tank. > > > > Amber > > > > Lainey Alexander wrote: > > > > > > > > > All I can see is "coralife 65 watt 6700k" - each bulb has two tubes, > > > and they don't quite make a U turn but they are connected by a small > > > bridge that seems to be part of the bulb itself. Does this tell us > > > anything? > > > > > > Lainey > > > http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com > <http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com> <http:// > > www.grasslandsgouldians.com> > > > > > > On Oct 16, 2009, at 2:37 PM, Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > > > > > > > Long straight tubes with pins on each end? Many other bulbs also > > > > have pins > > > > but CFL's only have them on one end and the tube usually makes > > a U- > > > > turn and > > > > comes back to the same fitting. They should have a brand and item > > > > number on > > > > them... or something else... but they are probably just standard > > > > fluorescent > > > > tubes. You would have to turn the fixture over and look at the > > > > bulbs... > > > > maybe even removing one to look for the writing on the glass on > > one > > > > end of > > > > the tube. It might/should even have a T-__ code which is a > > standard > > > > coding > > > > now for fluorescent tubes. > > > > > > > > You need to know this information as, depending on the brand/type/ > > > > etc., you > > > > might have to replace these bulbs every six months or so. > > > > > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>> > > > > (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the > > > > right > > > > side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, > > > > Month) > > > > > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On > > > > Behalf Of Lainey Alexander > > > > Sent: Friday, October 16, 2009 10:17 AM > > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife% > > 40yahoogroups.com> > > > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] OOPS re green water > > > > > > > > Lenny - > > > > > > > > As far as I know, I have regular standard fluorescents, they are > > > > the ones > > > > with the pins - 65 watts, two bulbs, 6700k each. > > > > > > > > Lainey > > > > http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com > <http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com> <http:// > > www.grasslandsgouldians.com> > > > > > > > > On Oct 16, 2009, at 1:16 AM, Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > > > > > > > > > Lets see... my first thoughts would be... > > > > > > > > > > http://images.veer.com/IMG/PILL/MAI/MAI0002683_P.JPG > <http://images.veer.com/IMG/PILL/MAI/MAI0002683_P.JPG> > > > <http://images.veer.com/IMG/PILL/MAI/MAI0002683_P.JPG > <http://images.veer.com/IMG/PILL/MAI/MAI0002683_P.JPG>> > > > > > > > > > > (maybe without the Parrot as an eye witness... lol... ;-)) > > > > > > > > > > It's good to hear you have a 30" x 12" footprint but you need to > > > > quit > > > > > using the "depth" term for the front to back measurement, > > although > > > > > that is a common term to use for measuring other physical > > items, for > > > > > aquariums, because of the water, "depth" can easily be > > > > misconstrued to > > > > > be the depth of the water. This is why the standard for aquarium > > > > > measurement is L x W x H (Length by Width by Height). I know the > > > > > "width" part can be confusing also since that would be the long > > > > sides > > > > > of most aquarium where we commonly use the long sides as the > > length > > > > > and the front to back measurement as the width. > > > > > Don't ask me who invented this standard. LOL > > > > > > > > > > At least with the 30" x 12" footprint and only 23" tall and your > > > > tank > > > > > is still based on the same footprint as a 20G but at least > > it's a > > > > 20G > > > > > LONG footprint instead of a regular 20G footprint. It's also not > > > > > nearly as tall as what you originally said was a 30" tall > > tank so > > > > this > > > > > makes your lighting more practical... BUT... you still DO NOT > > > > need 5" > > > > > to 7" of gravel. > > > > > Still > > > > > cut this back to 2" to 3". > > > > > > > > > > I do not recall if you ever listed details on your lighting > > other > > > > than > > > > > saying you had two 65W fluorescent bulbs. Are they standard > > > > > fluorescent bulbs... long single tubes with two pins on each > > end? > > > > Look > > > > > on the bulbs for any item numbers, brand names, etc. and let us > > > > know. > > > > > From what I can see on the net, it looks like you could > > either have > > > > > 65W CFL's instead of standard fluorescent bulbs but they do also > > > > have > > > > > a T-10 65W Fluorescent tube. While they are both called 65W > > (watt), > > > > > the CFL's would put out 2-3 times more light (lumens) than > > standard > > > > > fluorescent tubes. > > > > > > > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > > > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>> > (Links to any articles > > > > > referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, > > > > alphabetically > > > > > under Labels and also under Archives by Year, > > > > > Month) > > > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On Behalf Of Lainey > > Alexander > > > > > Sent: Thursday, October 15, 2009 8:38 PM > > > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife% > > 40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > Subject: [AquaticLife] OOPS re green water > > > > > > > > > > I just realized that I completely goofed on these measurements > > > > > (below), which is why everyone has been so adamant about my > > crazy > > > > tank > > > > > shape! > > > > > > > > > > The height is 23, the WIDTH is 30 and the depth is 12. > > > > > > > > > > I'm so sorry to make everyone talk about something that was > > > > incorrect > > > > > this whole time. But now, can you all let me know if this is > > a much > > > > > more reasonable depth please? Does this change my bioload > > issues at > > > > > all? > > > > > Does it > > > > > change the appropriateness of my lights? > > > > > > > > > > In five weeks several of my plants are near the top of the > > water, > > > > so I > > > > > think they must be fairly happy with the light. > > > > > > > > > > My apologies for being careless. > > > > > > > > > > Lainey > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Tank measurements are 30 high, 23 wide and 12 deep. > > > > > > > > > > > > Fluorescent lights, 2 @65 watts and 6700k - on 12 and off 12 > > > > > which is > > > > > > what I have been told my plants require... > > > > > > > > > > > > I used Activ-Flora gravel, and this contains non-nitrogen > > > > fertilizer > > > > > > plus "instant-cycling" bacteria > > > > > > > > > > > > Not dosing with any chemicals or ferts > > > > > > > > > > > > *** > > > > > > > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 43903	From: bill 1433	Date: 10/16/2009
Subject: Re: The T-5 Business Len/Amber?

Hi Donna, Thanks for your return but I want to ask, can you be more specific about Brand, Manufacture, cost? Any help is welcome. Bill --- On Fri, 10/16/09, Donna Ransome <djransome@...> wrote: > From: Donna Ransome <djransome@...> > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] The T-5 Business Len/Amber? > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Date: Friday, October 16, 2009, 8:01 PM > I use compact fluorescent tubes, 6700 > daylight.  I avoid the actinic, I had > one and removed it because I got too much algae.  Once > you get into the > compact fluorescents and away from “regular” you > don’t have all the colors > to worry about, LOL.  > > > > They make retrofit kits, but I just bought a new > fixture.  Fans all built > in, etc.  My 36” tank holds a single twin > tube.  My 72” tank has 2 fixtures, > each holding two twin tubes.  > > > >   _____  > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] > On > Behalf Of bill 1433 > Sent: Friday, October 16, 2009 6:41 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] The T-5 Business Len/Amber? > > > >   > > Yes Mam! > > We are gettin' there. It would seem ----- before I do > anything crazy---- > get the fixture open apart or both and find out if I have a > ballast > limit on the light I have now. Why? I think if I buy a tube > with too > high of a wattage requirement two things would happen and > either good! > > One, the new tube will not work at all or Two, it will work > but pull too > much wattage and then burn up. > > Right??????????? > > Bill > > --- On Fri, 10/16/09, Amber Berglund <arberglund@gmail. > <mailto:arberglund%40gmail.com> com> wrote: > > > From: Amber Berglund <arberglund@gmail. > <mailto:arberglund%40gmail.com> > com> > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] The T-5 Business > Len/Amber? > > To: AquaticLife@ > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > yahoogroups.com > > Date: Friday, October 16, 2009, 4:51 PM > > Okay some regular fluorescent > > fixtures will accept normal bulbs up to > > the VHO t-5's or better, it's just a matter of > checking the > > specs on > > each fixture, but most now days are interchangeable, > but > > I'm not sure > > fluorescent fixtures have a wattage limit like CFL > ballasts > > do. CFL's > > are not interchangeable with regular fluorescent bulbs > or > > VHO/HO bulbs, > > you can only use CFL bulbs on CFL fixtures and only > UPTO > > the wattage > > that the ballast can run, for instance I have a retro > fit > > kit (you buy > > it and put it all together) on my 125 gallon that has > 4 x > > 65 watt CFL > > bulbs and 2 sets of lights run off of 1 ballast, so > there > > are 2 ballasts > > under the tank that can run at max 2 x 65 watt bulbs, > the > > next step up > > is 96 watts I think. There are also square pin and > straight > > pin CFL > > bulbs and fixtures do not interchange on those, so > read > > close when/if > > you go to buy new bulbs for a CFL fixture and make > sure you > > get the > > right pin setting. > > > > Let me know if this helps clear things up ;) > > > > Amber > > > > bill 1433 wrote: > > >  > > > > > > I'm sorry, I suppose I should have put all of > this > > another way. > > > Think of it as what goes to what (watt). > <g> > > > > > > What I am trying to say is that I was of the > opinion > > that if you > > > wanted to move up to a T-5 or better tube then > you had > > better have a > > > fixture for it but from reading on, it seems that > you > > CAN use a > > > different tube provided that, first the fixture > > excepts the pin > > > alignment of that tube and second that the tube > or > > tubes does not > > > exceed the given wattage of the ballast of the > fixture > > itself. Does > > > any of this makes sense or am I all messed up > again? > > Can somebody turn > > > on a light, please? > > > > > > Bill > > > > > > > > > > > > ------------------------------------ > > > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when > > replying, Thank You. > > > ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> > > ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> > > PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that > is > > NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC > of > > the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> > i.e. "new > > subject (was re: old subject)" <- > > > <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. > > , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. > > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. > > > > If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead > of > > unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by > > clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the home > page.  > > > > Or e-mail aquaticlife- > <mailto:aquaticlife-digest%40yahoogroups.com> > digest@yahoogroups.com > > to receive the digest, which includes up to 25 posts > at a > > time in a single email > > > > Or email aquaticlife- > <mailto:aquaticlife-nomail%40yahoogroups.com> > nomail@yahoogroups.com > > for the No E-Mail option where you will still be able > to > > read messages on the group and post replies. > > > > Or email aquaticlife- > <mailto:aquaticlife-normal%40yahoogroups.com> > normal@yahoogroups.com > > to receive individual e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > >     mailto:AquaticLife- > <mailto:AquaticLife-fullfeatured%40yahoogroups.com> > fullfeatured@yahoogroups.com > > > > > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > ------------------------------------ > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when > replying, Thank You. > ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> > ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> > PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is > NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of > the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new > subject (was re: old subject)" <- > <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. > , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. > > If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of > unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by > clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the home page.  > > Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com > to receive the digest, which includes up to 25 posts at a > time in a single email > > Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com > for the No E-Mail option where you will still be able to > read messages on the group and post replies. > > Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com > to receive individual e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links > > >     mailto:AquaticLife-fullfeatured@yahoogroups.com > > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 43904	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 10/16/2009
Subject: Re: OOPS re green water

If you ever want to increase your lighting even more with CFL bulbs you can find better bulbs with a better light spectrum. I actually have the same bulbs in my light fixture, I use the straight pin on the fixture on my 55 gallon and the 125 gallon has square pin lights. I've found that there's a better selection for straight pin bulbs on marinedepot.com than square pin (and the prices are usually better). Oh and while I'm talking about marinedepot.com they are running a sale on a light fixture that has CFL bulbs and LED night lighting all in one. They only go from 24-36 inches though, but they are all on sale. http://www.marinedepot.com/24_inch_2x65_Watt_Current_USA_PowerCompact_Dual_Satellite_Fixture_24_Inch_Power_Compact_Light_Fixtures-Current_USA-CU01011-FILTFIPCTF-CU01013-vi.html Amber Lainey Alexander wrote: > > > Thanks, Amber - they are tubes that reach the length of the tank. > > Lainey > http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com <http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com> > > On Oct 16, 2009, at 9:35 PM, Amber Berglund wrote: > > > those are CFL bulbs, so you have more than enough lighting for your 37 > > gallon if you have 1 bulb on each side of the tank. > > > > Amber > > > > Lainey Alexander wrote: > > > > > > > > > All I can see is "coralife 65 watt 6700k" - each bulb has two tubes, > > > and they don't quite make a U turn but they are connected by a small > > > bridge that seems to be part of the bulb itself. Does this tell us > > > anything? > > > > > > Lainey > > > http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com > <http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com> <http:// > > www.grasslandsgouldians.com> > > > > > > On Oct 16, 2009, at 2:37 PM, Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > > > > > > > Long straight tubes with pins on each end? Many other bulbs also > > > > have pins > > > > but CFL's only have them on one end and the tube usually makes > > a U- > > > > turn and > > > > comes back to the same fitting. They should have a brand and item > > > > number on > > > > them... or something else... but they are probably just standard > > > > fluorescent > > > > tubes. You would have to turn the fixture over and look at the > > > > bulbs... > > > > maybe even removing one to look for the writing on the glass on > > one > > > > end of > > > > the tube. It might/should even have a T-__ code which is a > > standard > > > > coding > > > > now for fluorescent tubes. > > > > > > > > You need to know this information as, depending on the brand/type/ > > > > etc., you > > > > might have to replace these bulbs every six months or so. > > > > > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>> > > > > (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the > > > > right > > > > side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, > > > > Month) > > > > > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On > > > > Behalf Of Lainey Alexander > > > > Sent: Friday, October 16, 2009 10:17 AM > > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife% > > 40yahoogroups.com> > > > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] OOPS re green water > > > > > > > > Lenny - > > > > > > > > As far as I know, I have regular standard fluorescents, they are > > > > the ones > > > > with the pins - 65 watts, two bulbs, 6700k each. > > > > > > > > Lainey > > > > http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com > <http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com> <http:// > > www.grasslandsgouldians.com> > > > > > > > > On Oct 16, 2009, at 1:16 AM, Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > > > > > > > > > Lets see... my first thoughts would be... > > > > > > > > > > http://images.veer.com/IMG/PILL/MAI/MAI0002683_P.JPG > <http://images.veer.com/IMG/PILL/MAI/MAI0002683_P.JPG> > > > <http://images.veer.com/IMG/PILL/MAI/MAI0002683_P.JPG > <http://images.veer.com/IMG/PILL/MAI/MAI0002683_P.JPG>> > > > > > > > > > > (maybe without the Parrot as an eye witness... lol... ;-)) > > > > > > > > > > It's good to hear you have a 30" x 12" footprint but you need to > > > > quit > > > > > using the "depth" term for the front to back measurement, > > although > > > > > that is a common term to use for measuring other physical > > items, for > > > > > aquariums, because of the water, "depth" can easily be > > > > misconstrued to > > > > > be the depth of the water. This is why the standard for aquarium > > > > > measurement is L x W x H (Length by Width by Height). I know the > > > > > "width" part can be confusing also since that would be the long > > > > sides > > > > > of most aquarium where we commonly use the long sides as the > > length > > > > > and the front to back measurement as the width. > > > > > Don't ask me who invented this standard. LOL > > > > > > > > > > At least with the 30" x 12" footprint and only 23" tall and your > > > > tank > > > > > is still based on the same footprint as a 20G but at least > > it's a > > > > 20G > > > > > LONG footprint instead of a regular 20G footprint. It's also not > > > > > nearly as tall as what you originally said was a 30" tall > > tank so > > > > this > > > > > makes your lighting more practical... BUT... you still DO NOT > > > > need 5" > > > > > to 7" of gravel. > > > > > Still > > > > > cut this back to 2" to 3". > > > > > > > > > > I do not recall if you ever listed details on your lighting > > other > > > > than > > > > > saying you had two 65W fluorescent bulbs. Are they standard > > > > > fluorescent bulbs... long single tubes with two pins on each > > end? > > > > Look > > > > > on the bulbs for any item numbers, brand names, etc. and let us > > > > know. > > > > > From what I can see on the net, it looks like you could > > either have > > > > > 65W CFL's instead of standard fluorescent bulbs but they do also > > > > have > > > > > a T-10 65W Fluorescent tube. While they are both called 65W > > (watt), > > > > > the CFL's would put out 2-3 times more light (lumens) than > > standard > > > > > fluorescent tubes. > > > > > > > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > > > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>> > (Links to any articles > > > > > referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, > > > > alphabetically > > > > > under Labels and also under Archives by Year, > > > > > Month) > > > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On Behalf Of Lainey > > Alexander > > > > > Sent: Thursday, October 15, 2009 8:38 PM > > > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife% > > 40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > Subject: [AquaticLife] OOPS re green water > > > > > > > > > > I just realized that I completely goofed on these measurements > > > > > (below), which is why everyone has been so adamant about my > > crazy > > > > tank > > > > > shape! > > > > > > > > > > The height is 23, the WIDTH is 30 and the depth is 12. > > > > > > > > > > I'm so sorry to make everyone talk about something that was > > > > incorrect > > > > > this whole time. But now, can you all let me know if this is > > a much > > > > > more reasonable depth please? Does this change my bioload > > issues at > > > > > all? > > > > > Does it > > > > > change the appropriateness of my lights? > > > > > > > > > > In five weeks several of my plants are near the top of the > > water, > > > > so I > > > > > think they must be fairly happy with the light. > > > > > > > > > > My apologies for being careless. > > > > > > > > > > Lainey > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Tank measurements are 30 high, 23 wide and 12 deep. > > > > > > > > > > > > Fluorescent lights, 2 @65 watts and 6700k - on 12 and off 12 > > > > > which is > > > > > > what I have been told my plants require... > > > > > > > > > > > > I used Activ-Flora gravel, and this contains non-nitrogen > > > > fertilizer > > > > > > plus "instant-cycling" bacteria > > > > > > > > > > > > Not dosing with any chemicals or ferts > > > > > > > > > > > > *** > > > > > > > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 43905	From: Lainey Alexander	Date: 10/16/2009
Subject: Re: OOPS re green water

It is two bulbs but each bulb has two tubes:) Lainey http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com On Oct 16, 2009, at 9:40 PM, Amber Berglund wrote: > Is it 2 tubes that run the length of the light fixture or 1 bulb (that > looks like a double bulb and connects on each end, but only has 1 > connector to plug into the fixture)? > > Amber > > Lainey Alexander wrote: > > > > > > Thanks, Amber - they are tubes that reach the length of the tank. > > > > Lainey > > http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com <http:// > www.grasslandsgouldians.com> > > > > On Oct 16, 2009, at 9:35 PM, Amber Berglund wrote: > > > > > those are CFL bulbs, so you have more than enough lighting for > your 37 > > > gallon if you have 1 bulb on each side of the tank. > > > > > > Amber > > > > > > Lainey Alexander wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > All I can see is "coralife 65 watt 6700k" - each bulb has two > tubes, > > > > and they don't quite make a U turn but they are connected by > a small > > > > bridge that seems to be part of the bulb itself. Does this > tell us > > > > anything? > > > > > > > > Lainey > > > > http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com > > <http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com> <http:// > > > www.grasslandsgouldians.com> > > > > > > > > On Oct 16, 2009, at 2:37 PM, Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > > > > > > > > > Long straight tubes with pins on each end? Many other bulbs > also > > > > > have pins > > > > > but CFL's only have them on one end and the tube usually makes > > > a U- > > > > > turn and > > > > > comes back to the same fitting. They should have a brand > and item > > > > > number on > > > > > them... or something else... but they are probably just > standard > > > > > fluorescent > > > > > tubes. You would have to turn the fixture over and look at the > > > > > bulbs... > > > > > maybe even removing one to look for the writing on the > glass on > > > one > > > > > end of > > > > > the tube. It might/should even have a T-__ code which is a > > > standard > > > > > coding > > > > > now for fluorescent tubes. > > > > > > > > > > You need to know this information as, depending on the > brand/type/ > > > > > etc., you > > > > > might have to replace these bulbs every six months or so. > > > > > > > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > > > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>> > > > > > (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed > on the > > > > > right > > > > > side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives > by Year, > > > > > Month) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On > > > > > Behalf Of Lainey Alexander > > > > > Sent: Friday, October 16, 2009 10:17 AM > > > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife% > > > 40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] OOPS re green water > > > > > > > > > > Lenny - > > > > > > > > > > As far as I know, I have regular standard fluorescents, > they are > > > > > the ones > > > > > with the pins - 65 watts, two bulbs, 6700k each. > > > > > > > > > > Lainey > > > > > http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com > > <http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com> <http:// > > > www.grasslandsgouldians.com> > > > > > > > > > > On Oct 16, 2009, at 1:16 AM, Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > Lets see... my first thoughts would be... > > > > > > > > > > > > http://images.veer.com/IMG/PILL/MAI/MAI0002683_P.JPG > > <http://images.veer.com/IMG/PILL/MAI/MAI0002683_P.JPG> > > > > <http://images.veer.com/IMG/PILL/MAI/MAI0002683_P.JPG > > <http://images.veer.com/IMG/PILL/MAI/MAI0002683_P.JPG>> > > > > > > > > > > > > (maybe without the Parrot as an eye witness... lol... ;-)) > > > > > > > > > > > > It's good to hear you have a 30" x 12" footprint but you > need to > > > > > quit > > > > > > using the "depth" term for the front to back measurement, > > > although > > > > > > that is a common term to use for measuring other physical > > > items, for > > > > > > aquariums, because of the water, "depth" can easily be > > > > > misconstrued to > > > > > > be the depth of the water. This is why the standard for > aquarium > > > > > > measurement is L x W x H (Length by Width by Height). I > know the > > > > > > "width" part can be confusing also since that would be > the long > > > > > sides > > > > > > of most aquarium where we commonly use the long sides as the > > > length > > > > > > and the front to back measurement as the width. > > > > > > Don't ask me who invented this standard. LOL > > > > > > > > > > > > At least with the 30" x 12" footprint and only 23" tall > and your > > > > > tank > > > > > > is still based on the same footprint as a 20G but at least > > > it's a > > > > > 20G > > > > > > LONG footprint instead of a regular 20G footprint. It's > also not > > > > > > nearly as tall as what you originally said was a 30" tall > > > tank so > > > > > this > > > > > > makes your lighting more practical... BUT... you still DO > NOT > > > > > need 5" > > > > > > to 7" of gravel. > > > > > > Still > > > > > > cut this back to 2" to 3". > > > > > > > > > > > > I do not recall if you ever listed details on your lighting > > > other > > > > > than > > > > > > saying you had two 65W fluorescent bulbs. Are they standard > > > > > > fluorescent bulbs... long single tubes with two pins on each > > > end? > > > > > Look > > > > > > on the bulbs for any item numbers, brand names, etc. and > let us > > > > > know. > > > > > > From what I can see on the net, it looks like you could > > > either have > > > > > > 65W CFL's instead of standard fluorescent bulbs but they > do also > > > > > have > > > > > > a T-10 65W Fluorescent tube. While they are both called 65W > > > (watt), > > > > > > the CFL's would put out 2-3 times more light (lumens) than > > > standard > > > > > > fluorescent tubes. > > > > > > > > > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > > > > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>> > > (Links to any articles > > > > > > referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, > > > > > alphabetically > > > > > > under Labels and also under Archives by Year, > > > > > > Month) > > > > > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > > > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On Behalf Of Lainey > > > Alexander > > > > > > Sent: Thursday, October 15, 2009 8:38 PM > > > > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife% > > > 40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > Subject: [AquaticLife] OOPS re green water > > > > > > > > > > > > I just realized that I completely goofed on these > measurements > > > > > > (below), which is why everyone has been so adamant about my > > > crazy > > > > > tank > > > > > > shape! > > > > > > > > > > > > The height is 23, the WIDTH is 30 and the depth is 12. > > > > > > > > > > > > I'm so sorry to make everyone talk about something that was > > > > > incorrect > > > > > > this whole time. But now, can you all let me know if this is > > > a much > > > > > > more reasonable depth please? Does this change my bioload > > > issues at > > > > > > all? > > > > > > Does it > > > > > > change the appropriateness of my lights? > > > > > > > > > > > > In five weeks several of my plants are near the top of the > > > water, > > > > > so I > > > > > > think they must be fairly happy with the light. > > > > > > > > > > > > My apologies for being careless. > > > > > > > > > > > > Lainey > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Tank measurements are 30 high, 23 wide and 12 deep. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Fluorescent lights, 2 @65 watts and 6700k - on 12 and > off 12 > > > > > > which is > > > > > > > what I have been told my plants require... > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I used Activ-Flora gravel, and this contains non-nitrogen > > > > > fertilizer > > > > > > > plus "instant-cycling" bacteria > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Not dosing with any chemicals or ferts > > > > > > > > > > > > > > *** > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 43906	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 10/16/2009
Subject: Re: OOPS re green water

Now you're talking!!! http://www.amazon.com/Coralife-Energy-Savers-6700K-Strait/dp/B002DVYC30 You do have CFL's, sometimes called Power Compact as in the above ad. CFL stands for Compact Fluorescent Lighting. This means each of your 65 watt CFL's are actually equal to 130 to 180 watts of standard fluorescent lighting. To put this in perspective, with your 37G tank, in the *old* days when WPG (watts per gallon) was the baseline, 1WPG worked for low light plants, 2-3WPG for medium light plants and 4-5WPG for high light plants. Your two 65W CFL's would be equal to 260 to 360 Watts of *old* fluorescent lighting, which means you comparably have anywhere from 7WPG to nearly 10WPG of lighting on your tank. YOU DEFINITELY DO NOT NEED 12 hours a day of lighting. Slowly start cutting back from your current 12 hours down to 11 hours for a few days, then 10 hours, then 9 hours, then 8 hours, etc., until you see your plants still doing well but NOT the algae. You may be able to get by with as little as 6-7 hours of lighting... and with that much light, having some (or a lot after a short time) floating Anacharis or Hornwort will also help it grow fast and block out some of the lighting to the algae. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Lainey Alexander Sent: Friday, October 16, 2009 6:20 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] OOPS re green water All I can see is "coralife 65 watt 6700k" - each bulb has two tubes, and they don't quite make a U turn but they are connected by a small bridge that seems to be part of the bulb itself. Does this tell us anything? Lainey http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com On Oct 16, 2009, at 2:37 PM, Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > Long straight tubes with pins on each end? Many other bulbs also have > pins but CFL's only have them on one end and the tube usually makes a > U- turn and comes back to the same fitting. They should have a brand > and item number on them... or something else... but they are probably > just standard fluorescent tubes. You would have to turn the fixture > over and look at the bulbs... > maybe even removing one to look for the writing on the glass on one > end of the tube. It might/should even have a T-__ code which is a > standard coding now for fluorescent tubes. > > You need to know this information as, depending on the brand/type/ > etc., you might have to replace these bulbs every six months or so. > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles > referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically > under Labels and also under Archives by Year, > Month) > > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Lainey Alexander > Sent: Friday, October 16, 2009 10:17 AM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] OOPS re green water > > Lenny - > > As far as I know, I have regular standard fluorescents, they are the > ones with the pins - 65 watts, two bulbs, 6700k each. > > Lainey > http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com > > On Oct 16, 2009, at 1:16 AM, Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > > > Lets see... my first thoughts would be... > > > > http://images.veer.com/IMG/PILL/MAI/MAI0002683_P.JPG > > > > (maybe without the Parrot as an eye witness... lol... ;-)) > > > > It's good to hear you have a 30" x 12" footprint but you need to > quit > > using the "depth" term for the front to back measurement, although > > that is a common term to use for measuring other physical items, for > > aquariums, because of the water, "depth" can easily be > misconstrued to > > be the depth of the water. This is why the standard for aquarium > > measurement is L x W x H (Length by Width by Height). I know the > > "width" part can be confusing also since that would be the long > sides > > of most aquarium where we commonly use the long sides as the length > > and the front to back measurement as the width. > > Don't ask me who invented this standard. LOL > > > > At least with the 30" x 12" footprint and only 23" tall and your > tank > > is still based on the same footprint as a 20G but at least it's a > 20G > > LONG footprint instead of a regular 20G footprint. It's also not > > nearly as tall as what you originally said was a 30" tall tank so > this > > makes your lighting more practical... BUT... you still DO NOT > need 5" > > to 7" of gravel. > > Still > > cut this back to 2" to 3". > > > > I do not recall if you ever listed details on your lighting other > than > > saying you had two 65W fluorescent bulbs. Are they standard > > fluorescent bulbs... long single tubes with two pins on each end? > Look > > on the bulbs for any item numbers, brand names, etc. and let us > know. > > From what I can see on the net, it looks like you could either have > > 65W CFL's instead of standard fluorescent bulbs but they do also > have > > a T-10 65W Fluorescent tube. While they are both called 65W (watt), > > the CFL's would put out 2-3 times more light (lumens) than standard > > fluorescent tubes. > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles > > referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, > alphabetically > > under Labels and also under Archives by Year, > > Month) > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Lainey Alexander > > Sent: Thursday, October 15, 2009 8:38 PM > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > Subject: [AquaticLife] OOPS re green water > > > > I just realized that I completely goofed on these measurements > > (below), which is why everyone has been so adamant about my crazy > tank > > shape! > > > > The height is 23, the WIDTH is 30 and the depth is 12. > > > > I'm so sorry to make everyone talk about something that was > incorrect > > this whole time. But now, can you all let me know if this is a much > > more reasonable depth please? Does this change my bioload issues at > > all? > > Does it > > change the appropriateness of my lights? > > > > In five weeks several of my plants are near the top of the water, > so I > > think they must be fairly happy with the light. > > > > My apologies for being careless. > > > > Lainey > > > > > > > > Tank measurements are 30 high, 23 wide and 12 deep. > > > > > > Fluorescent lights, 2 @65 watts and 6700k - on 12 and off 12 > > which is > > > what I have been told my plants require... > > > > > > I used Activ-Flora gravel, and this contains non-nitrogen > fertilizer > > > plus "instant-cycling" bacteria > > > > > > Not dosing with any chemicals or ferts

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 43907	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 10/16/2009
Subject: Re: OOPS re green water

She has the same amount of lighting for her 37 gallon that I have for my 55 gallon, LOL. No wonder she has green algae issues, I even had them my first month with my lighting until you guys told me to cut back ;) I have been able to increase my lighting as the plants have grown though, so I'm up to 11 hours a day again, not to mention most of the surface is covered in duckweed most of the time until I scoop a bunch out ;) Amber Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > > > Now you're talking!!! > > http://www.amazon.com/Coralife-Energy-Savers-6700K-Strait/dp/B002DVYC30 > <http://www.amazon.com/Coralife-Energy-Savers-6700K-Strait/dp/B002DVYC30> > > You do have CFL's, sometimes called Power Compact as in the above ad. CFL > stands for Compact Fluorescent Lighting. > > This means each of your 65 watt CFL's are actually equal to 130 to 180 > watts > of standard fluorescent lighting. > > To put this in perspective, with your 37G tank, in the *old* days when WPG > (watts per gallon) was the baseline, 1WPG worked for low light plants, > 2-3WPG for medium light plants and 4-5WPG for high light plants. Your two > 65W CFL's would be equal to 260 to 360 Watts of *old* fluorescent > lighting, > which means you comparably have anywhere from 7WPG to nearly 10WPG of > lighting on your tank. YOU DEFINITELY DO NOT NEED 12 hours a day of > lighting. Slowly start cutting back from your current 12 hours down to 11 > hours for a few days, then 10 hours, then 9 hours, then 8 hours, etc., > until > you see your plants still doing well but NOT the algae. You may be able to > get by with as little as 6-7 hours of lighting... and with that much > light, > having some (or a lot after a short time) floating Anacharis or Hornwort > will also help it grow fast and block out some of the lighting to the > algae. > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right > side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On > Behalf Of Lainey Alexander > Sent: Friday, October 16, 2009 6:20 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] OOPS re green water > > All I can see is "coralife 65 watt 6700k" - each bulb has two tubes, and > they don't quite make a U turn but they are connected by a small > bridge that > seems to be part of the bulb itself. Does this tell us anything? > > Lainey > http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com <http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com> > > On Oct 16, 2009, at 2:37 PM, Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > > > Long straight tubes with pins on each end? Many other bulbs also have > > pins but CFL's only have them on one end and the tube usually makes a > > U- turn and comes back to the same fitting. They should have a brand > > and item number on them... or something else... but they are probably > > just standard fluorescent tubes. You would have to turn the fixture > > over and look at the bulbs... > > maybe even removing one to look for the writing on the glass on one > > end of the tube. It might/should even have a T-__ code which is a > > standard coding now for fluorescent tubes. > > > > You need to know this information as, depending on the brand/type/ > > etc., you might have to replace these bulbs every six months or so. > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> (Links to any articles > > referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically > > under Labels and also under Archives by Year, > > Month) > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On Behalf Of Lainey Alexander > > Sent: Friday, October 16, 2009 10:17 AM > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] OOPS re green water > > > > Lenny - > > > > As far as I know, I have regular standard fluorescents, they are the > > ones with the pins - 65 watts, two bulbs, 6700k each. > > > > Lainey > > http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com <http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com> > > > > On Oct 16, 2009, at 1:16 AM, Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > > > > > Lets see... my first thoughts would be... > > > > > > http://images.veer.com/IMG/PILL/MAI/MAI0002683_P.JPG > <http://images.veer.com/IMG/PILL/MAI/MAI0002683_P.JPG> > > > > > > (maybe without the Parrot as an eye witness... lol... ;-)) > > > > > > It's good to hear you have a 30" x 12" footprint but you need to > > quit > > > using the "depth" term for the front to back measurement, although > > > that is a common term to use for measuring other physical items, for > > > aquariums, because of the water, "depth" can easily be > > misconstrued to > > > be the depth of the water. This is why the standard for aquarium > > > measurement is L x W x H (Length by Width by Height). I know the > > > "width" part can be confusing also since that would be the long > > sides > > > of most aquarium where we commonly use the long sides as the length > > > and the front to back measurement as the width. > > > Don't ask me who invented this standard. LOL > > > > > > At least with the 30" x 12" footprint and only 23" tall and your > > tank > > > is still based on the same footprint as a 20G but at least it's a > > 20G > > > LONG footprint instead of a regular 20G footprint. It's also not > > > nearly as tall as what you originally said was a 30" tall tank so > > this > > > makes your lighting more practical... BUT... you still DO NOT > > need 5" > > > to 7" of gravel. > > > Still > > > cut this back to 2" to 3". > > > > > > I do not recall if you ever listed details on your lighting other > > than > > > saying you had two 65W fluorescent bulbs. Are they standard > > > fluorescent bulbs... long single tubes with two pins on each end? > > Look > > > on the bulbs for any item numbers, brand names, etc. and let us > > know. > > > From what I can see on the net, it looks like you could either have > > > 65W CFL's instead of standard fluorescent bulbs but they do also > > have > > > a T-10 65W Fluorescent tube. While they are both called 65W (watt), > > > the CFL's would put out 2-3 times more light (lumens) than standard > > > fluorescent tubes. > > > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> (Links to any articles > > > referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, > > alphabetically > > > under Labels and also under Archives by Year, > > > Month) > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On Behalf Of Lainey Alexander > > > Sent: Thursday, October 15, 2009 8:38 PM > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > Subject: [AquaticLife] OOPS re green water > > > > > > I just realized that I completely goofed on these measurements > > > (below), which is why everyone has been so adamant about my crazy > > tank > > > shape! > > > > > > The height is 23, the WIDTH is 30 and the depth is 12. > > > > > > I'm so sorry to make everyone talk about something that was > > incorrect > > > this whole time. But now, can you all let me know if this is a much > > > more reasonable depth please? Does this change my bioload issues at > > > all? > > > Does it > > > change the appropriateness of my lights? > > > > > > In five weeks several of my plants are near the top of the water, > > so I > > > think they must be fairly happy with the light. > > > > > > My apologies for being careless. > > > > > > Lainey > > > > > > > > > > > Tank measurements are 30 high, 23 wide and 12 deep. > > > > > > > > Fluorescent lights, 2 @65 watts and 6700k - on 12 and off 12 > > > which is > > > > what I have been told my plants require... > > > > > > > > I used Activ-Flora gravel, and this contains non-nitrogen > > fertilizer > > > > plus "instant-cycling" bacteria > > > > > > > > Not dosing with any chemicals or ferts > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 43908	From: Lainey Alexander	Date: 10/16/2009
Subject: Re: OOPS re green water

OK, this is very helpful. I did not realize that these were compacts. I use CFLs for my finches, but they are screw in types - 15 watts gives you 65 or something. So I am getting a ton of light out of these aquarium tubes. I have cut back to 10.5 hours per day so far, will cut back further now. BTW I got the fixture with the blue LED night lights - is it OK to use them? I enjoy them as I am nocturnal. Thank you very much! Lainey http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com On Oct 16, 2009, at 9:53 PM, Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > Now you're talking!!! > > http://www.amazon.com/Coralife-Energy-Savers-6700K-Strait/dp/ > B002DVYC30 > > You do have CFL's, sometimes called Power Compact as in the above > ad. CFL > stands for Compact Fluorescent Lighting. > > This means each of your 65 watt CFL's are actually equal to 130 to > 180 watts > of standard fluorescent lighting. > > To put this in perspective, with your 37G tank, in the *old* days > when WPG > (watts per gallon) was the baseline, 1WPG worked for low light plants, > 2-3WPG for medium light plants and 4-5WPG for high light plants. > Your two > 65W CFL's would be equal to 260 to 360 Watts of *old* fluorescent > lighting, > which means you comparably have anywhere from 7WPG to nearly 10WPG of > lighting on your tank. YOU DEFINITELY DO NOT NEED 12 hours a day of > lighting. Slowly start cutting back from your current 12 hours down > to 11 > hours for a few days, then 10 hours, then 9 hours, then 8 hours, > etc., until > you see your plants still doing well but NOT the algae. You may be > able to > get by with as little as 6-7 hours of lighting... and with that > much light, > having some (or a lot after a short time) floating Anacharis or > Hornwort > will also help it grow fast and block out some of the lighting to > the algae. > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the > right > side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, > Month) > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On > Behalf Of Lainey Alexander > Sent: Friday, October 16, 2009 6:20 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] OOPS re green water > > All I can see is "coralife 65 watt 6700k" - each bulb has two > tubes, and > they don't quite make a U turn but they are connected by a small > bridge that > seems to be part of the bulb itself. Does this tell us anything? > > Lainey > http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com > > On Oct 16, 2009, at 2:37 PM, Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > > > Long straight tubes with pins on each end? Many other bulbs also > have > > pins but CFL's only have them on one end and the tube usually > makes a > > U- turn and comes back to the same fitting. They should have a brand > > and item number on them... or something else... but they are > probably > > just standard fluorescent tubes. You would have to turn the fixture > > over and look at the bulbs... > > maybe even removing one to look for the writing on the glass on one > > end of the tube. It might/should even have a T-__ code which is a > > standard coding now for fluorescent tubes. > > > > You need to know this information as, depending on the brand/type/ > > etc., you might have to replace these bulbs every six months or so. > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles > > referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, > alphabetically > > under Labels and also under Archives by Year, > > Month) > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Lainey Alexander > > Sent: Friday, October 16, 2009 10:17 AM > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] OOPS re green water > > > > Lenny - > > > > As far as I know, I have regular standard fluorescents, they are the > > ones with the pins - 65 watts, two bulbs, 6700k each. > > > > Lainey > > http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com > > > > On Oct 16, 2009, at 1:16 AM, Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > > > > > Lets see... my first thoughts would be... > > > > > > http://images.veer.com/IMG/PILL/MAI/MAI0002683_P.JPG > > > > > > (maybe without the Parrot as an eye witness... lol... ;-)) > > > > > > It's good to hear you have a 30" x 12" footprint but you need to > > quit > > > using the "depth" term for the front to back measurement, although > > > that is a common term to use for measuring other physical > items, for > > > aquariums, because of the water, "depth" can easily be > > misconstrued to > > > be the depth of the water. This is why the standard for aquarium > > > measurement is L x W x H (Length by Width by Height). I know the > > > "width" part can be confusing also since that would be the long > > sides > > > of most aquarium where we commonly use the long sides as the > length > > > and the front to back measurement as the width. > > > Don't ask me who invented this standard. LOL > > > > > > At least with the 30" x 12" footprint and only 23" tall and your > > tank > > > is still based on the same footprint as a 20G but at least it's a > > 20G > > > LONG footprint instead of a regular 20G footprint. It's also not > > > nearly as tall as what you originally said was a 30" tall tank so > > this > > > makes your lighting more practical... BUT... you still DO NOT > > need 5" > > > to 7" of gravel. > > > Still > > > cut this back to 2" to 3". > > > > > > I do not recall if you ever listed details on your lighting other > > than > > > saying you had two 65W fluorescent bulbs. Are they standard > > > fluorescent bulbs... long single tubes with two pins on each end? > > Look > > > on the bulbs for any item numbers, brand names, etc. and let us > > know. > > > From what I can see on the net, it looks like you could either > have > > > 65W CFL's instead of standard fluorescent bulbs but they do also > > have > > > a T-10 65W Fluorescent tube. While they are both called 65W > (watt), > > > the CFL's would put out 2-3 times more light (lumens) than > standard > > > fluorescent tubes. > > > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles > > > referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, > > alphabetically > > > under Labels and also under Archives by Year, > > > Month) > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Lainey Alexander > > > Sent: Thursday, October 15, 2009 8:38 PM > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > > Subject: [AquaticLife] OOPS re green water > > > > > > I just realized that I completely goofed on these measurements > > > (below), which is why everyone has been so adamant about my crazy > > tank > > > shape! > > > > > > The height is 23, the WIDTH is 30 and the depth is 12. > > > > > > I'm so sorry to make everyone talk about something that was > > incorrect > > > this whole time. But now, can you all let me know if this is a > much > > > more reasonable depth please? Does this change my bioload > issues at > > > all? > > > Does it > > > change the appropriateness of my lights? > > > > > > In five weeks several of my plants are near the top of the water, > > so I > > > think they must be fairly happy with the light. > > > > > > My apologies for being careless. > > > > > > Lainey > > > > > > > > > > > Tank measurements are 30 high, 23 wide and 12 deep. > > > > > > > > Fluorescent lights, 2 @65 watts and 6700k - on 12 and off 12 > > > which is > > > > what I have been told my plants require... > > > > > > > > I used Activ-Flora gravel, and this contains non-nitrogen > > fertilizer > > > > plus "instant-cycling" bacteria > > > > > > > > Not dosing with any chemicals or ferts > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 43909	From: Deenerz@aol.com	Date: 10/16/2009
Subject: Re: OOPS re green water

LOL... I will send you my street address so you can Google Earth and see my shanty house :) If it is a current view you will see a back yard full of fish tanks, and old Mopars. -Mike -----Original Message----- From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@...> To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Fri, Oct 16, 2009 6:18 pm Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] OOPS re green water Oops.. there goes my theory that you lived in a top floor penthouse apartment with a sun roof over your tanks. ;-) Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Deenerz@... Sent: Friday, October 16, 2009 4:42 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] OOPS re green water Gold plated, now I know why everyone is selling their scrap gold :) I would like to have better lighting as I love red plants which generally require better lighting than I will spend money on. I just got a really good deal on an Eclipse 3 hood for a 29 to 37 gallon aquarium. More light than I usually put over a tank. I have a 37 gallon tank and a stand for it. Just won about 8 plants at my club auction for $9.00 and now all I am waiting on is some better substrate than I am usually willing to spend money on. Come on payday! -Mike -----Original Message----- From: Amber Berglund <arberglund@...> To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Fri, Oct 16, 2009 2:17 pm Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] OOPS re green water Maybe the lighting fixture is made of gold? LOL. I could never spend that much on a fixture. Mine was pushing my limits as it was and I spent somewhere close to 300 on it I think (was months ago now), I used Bill-me-later on marinedepot.com to get it, so I could make payments on the light. But I must say, I love it. One plug, timer included, and night lights, and more than enough light for my 55 gallon tank. Amber Deenerz@... wrote: > > > So with all these expensive trick lighting systems I am guessing these > plants cannot survive in plain old sunlight ;) > > it just cracks me up that we spend so much to try and imitate the sun. > > I do get it, an artificial environment requires artificial light. > > -Mike > > -----Original Message----- > From: sevenspringss@... <mailto:sevenspringss%40wmconnect.com> > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Sent: Fri, Oct 16, 2009 10:30 am > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] OOPS re green water > > Bill, Since you mentioned Drs Foster & Smith, I became curious and > checked one of my most resent catalogs. You mentioned these fixtures > could cost > in > the hundreds of dollars -- I saw a couple over $1000 and two more well > over $1300. One of these was ON SALE (LOL) -- regularly $1599.99 > ($1600 + shipping). While I might be persuaded to say that's > LUDICROUS, a more accurate description would be that it's absolutely > INSANE ! You could probably replace the best of plants 20 times over > (or more) as a conservative estimate using ordinary flourescent > lighting, if those plants failed, and not have to be concerned that > you'd ever spend any more than such a fixture. Ray >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 43910	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 10/16/2009
Subject: Re: OOPS re green water

Yes you can use them all night if you want, they will not cause any harm and the fish prefer them I think, they seem more active at night to me. (the nocturnal fish). Also don't cut your lighting back right away or it can cause issues too. Just cut a couple hours off every few days as Lenny said in a previous post. Once your plants really take off and start to grow you can sometimes increase the lighting without getting a huge algae bloom all over again, but right now your plants still need to take root and they won't be using all that light just yet. In about a month they should really start to take off, maybe less depending on your substrate/nutrients available. You might be looking at green water for a few weeks, but keep up your tank maintenance and don't change too much water too fast, just keep is gradually coming in at the most you could clean/PWC every few days, but I wouldn't do it more than that or you could actually end up feeding the algae way too much, but with the decreased lighting it should help. Also take more of that new substrate out, you don't need that much at all, especially now that you know you have CFL bulbs, 2 inches should be plenty for good root growth, perhaps a little more for your Lilly as they like more root depth. Also I hope you got a dwarf lilly as normal Lilly's get HUGE. ;) I have both a dwarf lily and a tiger lotus, the tiger lotus is much slower growing than the dwarf lily and require's more lighting as well, but don't let them reach the surface unless you want them to take over the surface ;) They are nearly as bad as duckweed. If you trim the leaves that get tall and closer to the surface it will keep the lily short and bushy, but it also may never bloom, I'm not sure about that part. I don't know if tiger lotus's bloom, but dwarf lily's do. Mine has never bloomed, but they require more fertilizers than normal aquatic easy to grow plants, I put in fertilizer tabs about once a month for my lily's, but still no blooming for me :( Amber Lainey Alexander wrote: > > > OK, this is very helpful. I did not realize that these were compacts. > I use CFLs for my finches, but they are screw in types - 15 watts > gives you 65 or something. So I am getting a ton of light out of > these aquarium tubes. I have cut back to 10.5 hours per day so far, > will cut back further now. > > BTW I got the fixture with the blue LED night lights - is it OK to > use them? I enjoy them as I am nocturnal. > > Thank you very much! > > Lainey > http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com <http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com> > > On Oct 16, 2009, at 9:53 PM, Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > > > Now you're talking!!! > > > > http://www.amazon.com/Coralife-Energy-Savers-6700K-Strait/dp/ > <http://www.amazon.com/Coralife-Energy-Savers-6700K-Strait/dp/> > > B002DVYC30 > > > > You do have CFL's, sometimes called Power Compact as in the above > > ad. CFL > > stands for Compact Fluorescent Lighting. > > > > This means each of your 65 watt CFL's are actually equal to 130 to > > 180 watts > > of standard fluorescent lighting. > > > > To put this in perspective, with your 37G tank, in the *old* days > > when WPG > > (watts per gallon) was the baseline, 1WPG worked for low light plants, > > 2-3WPG for medium light plants and 4-5WPG for high light plants. > > Your two > > 65W CFL's would be equal to 260 to 360 Watts of *old* fluorescent > > lighting, > > which means you comparably have anywhere from 7WPG to nearly 10WPG of > > lighting on your tank. YOU DEFINITELY DO NOT NEED 12 hours a day of > > lighting. Slowly start cutting back from your current 12 hours down > > to 11 > > hours for a few days, then 10 hours, then 9 hours, then 8 hours, > > etc., until > > you see your plants still doing well but NOT the algae. You may be > > able to > > get by with as little as 6-7 hours of lighting... and with that > > much light, > > having some (or a lot after a short time) floating Anacharis or > > Hornwort > > will also help it grow fast and block out some of the lighting to > > the algae. > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the > > right > > side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, > > Month) > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On > > Behalf Of Lainey Alexander > > Sent: Friday, October 16, 2009 6:20 PM > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] OOPS re green water > > > > All I can see is "coralife 65 watt 6700k" - each bulb has two > > tubes, and > > they don't quite make a U turn but they are connected by a small > > bridge that > > seems to be part of the bulb itself. Does this tell us anything? > > > > Lainey > > http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com <http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com> > > > > On Oct 16, 2009, at 2:37 PM, Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > > > > > Long straight tubes with pins on each end? Many other bulbs also > > have > > > pins but CFL's only have them on one end and the tube usually > > makes a > > > U- turn and comes back to the same fitting. They should have a brand > > > and item number on them... or something else... but they are > > probably > > > just standard fluorescent tubes. You would have to turn the fixture > > > over and look at the bulbs... > > > maybe even removing one to look for the writing on the glass on one > > > end of the tube. It might/should even have a T-__ code which is a > > > standard coding now for fluorescent tubes. > > > > > > You need to know this information as, depending on the brand/type/ > > > etc., you might have to replace these bulbs every six months or so. > > > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> (Links to any articles > > > referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, > > alphabetically > > > under Labels and also under Archives by Year, > > > Month) > > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On Behalf Of Lainey Alexander > > > Sent: Friday, October 16, 2009 10:17 AM > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] OOPS re green water > > > > > > Lenny - > > > > > > As far as I know, I have regular standard fluorescents, they are the > > > ones with the pins - 65 watts, two bulbs, 6700k each. > > > > > > Lainey > > > http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com > <http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com> > > > > > > On Oct 16, 2009, at 1:16 AM, Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > > > > > > > Lets see... my first thoughts would be... > > > > > > > > http://images.veer.com/IMG/PILL/MAI/MAI0002683_P.JPG > <http://images.veer.com/IMG/PILL/MAI/MAI0002683_P.JPG> > > > > > > > > (maybe without the Parrot as an eye witness... lol... ;-)) > > > > > > > > It's good to hear you have a 30" x 12" footprint but you need to > > > quit > > > > using the "depth" term for the front to back measurement, although > > > > that is a common term to use for measuring other physical > > items, for > > > > aquariums, because of the water, "depth" can easily be > > > misconstrued to > > > > be the depth of the water. This is why the standard for aquarium > > > > measurement is L x W x H (Length by Width by Height). I know the > > > > "width" part can be confusing also since that would be the long > > > sides > > > > of most aquarium where we commonly use the long sides as the > > length > > > > and the front to back measurement as the width. > > > > Don't ask me who invented this standard. LOL > > > > > > > > At least with the 30" x 12" footprint and only 23" tall and your > > > tank > > > > is still based on the same footprint as a 20G but at least it's a > > > 20G > > > > LONG footprint instead of a regular 20G footprint. It's also not > > > > nearly as tall as what you originally said was a 30" tall tank so > > > this > > > > makes your lighting more practical... BUT... you still DO NOT > > > need 5" > > > > to 7" of gravel. > > > > Still > > > > cut this back to 2" to 3". > > > > > > > > I do not recall if you ever listed details on your lighting other > > > than > > > > saying you had two 65W fluorescent bulbs. Are they standard > > > > fluorescent bulbs... long single tubes with two pins on each end? > > > Look > > > > on the bulbs for any item numbers, brand names, etc. and let us > > > know. > > > > From what I can see on the net, it looks like you could either > > have > > > > 65W CFL's instead of standard fluorescent bulbs but they do also > > > have > > > > a T-10 65W Fluorescent tube. While they are both called 65W > > (watt), > > > > the CFL's would put out 2-3 times more light (lumens) than > > standard > > > > fluorescent tubes. > > > > > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> (Links to any articles > > > > referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, > > > alphabetically > > > > under Labels and also under Archives by Year, > > > > Month) > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On Behalf Of Lainey Alexander > > > > Sent: Thursday, October 15, 2009 8:38 PM > > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > Subject: [AquaticLife] OOPS re green water > > > > > > > > I just realized that I completely goofed on these measurements > > > > (below), which is why everyone has been so adamant about my crazy > > > tank > > > > shape! > > > > > > > > The height is 23, the WIDTH is 30 and the depth is 12. > > > > > > > > I'm so sorry to make everyone talk about something that was > > > incorrect > > > > this whole time. But now, can you all let me know if this is a > > much > > > > more reasonable depth please? Does this change my bioload > > issues at > > > > all? > > > > Does it > > > > change the appropriateness of my lights? > > > > > > > > In five weeks several of my plants are near the top of the water, > > > so I > > > > think they must be fairly happy with the light. > > > > > > > > My apologies for being careless. > > > > > > > > Lainey > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Tank measurements are 30 high, 23 wide and 12 deep. > > > > > > > > > > Fluorescent lights, 2 @65 watts and 6700k - on 12 and off 12 > > > > which is > > > > > what I have been told my plants require... > > > > > > > > > > I used Activ-Flora gravel, and this contains non-nitrogen > > > fertilizer > > > > > plus "instant-cycling" bacteria > > > > > > > > > > Not dosing with any chemicals or ferts > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 43911	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 10/16/2009
Subject: Re: OOPS re green water

Now you know why they named it "black beard algae"... it makes you go ARGGHHHHH!!!! (like a pirate... lol) I just made that up. LOL Amber, as you know, you have LOTS of lighting also. You are another that should slowly throttle back your lighting until you have a better balance. That might help with your algae issues also... or go with some floating nutrient sucking plants which will block out some of the light and suck up more of the nutrients. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Amber Berglund Sent: Friday, October 16, 2009 8:34 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] OOPS re green water The only algae I really hate is the "black beard algae" it's like scraping off a fur coat from an animal I swear. I had no luck against it with hydrogen peroxide, and I can't use it in my snail/cherry shrimp tank at all, so I just watch the beard grow more every week and pluck off what I can from plants without killing them off ;) LOL. I think I'm going to have to soak my driftwood in hydrogen peroxide but it has wisteria growing off of it (it was floating but decided it wanted to root into the driftwood, and I left it because it looked neat growing there). Once I soak it and get some of the black beard algae off of it I think I'm going to finally sink the driftwood (it's still floating on the surface, has been for a few months now, never sank for some reason, maybe it will eventually or it needs some help from a heavy rock, LOL). Maybe I should ask the hubby to put in a sun roof where it leaks, too bad the condo association wouldn't like that ;) Amber Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > > > Also, in our generally overstocked tanks, compared to nature, we would > get LOTS of algae with natural sunlight. The artificial lighting, and > being able to control it, is one of our lines of defense in our quest > against the dreaded algae. ;-) > > Even in ponds, where most people have them overstocked as well, algae > is a MAJOR problem and usually we have to have floating plants > covering any where from 50% to 75% of the surface to help with the > nutrient uptake and to block out the sun. > > Of course, unlike Mike, the rest of us do not live in a luxury top > floor penthouse apartment with a sunroof over the fish tanks... which > is another reason we need light fixtures. ;-) > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> (Links to any articles referenced in > above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels > and also under Archives by Year, Month) > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On Behalf Of Deenerz@... > <mailto:Deenerz%40aol.com> > Sent: Friday, October 16, 2009 4:15 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] OOPS re green water > > So with all these expensive trick lighting systems I am guessing these > plants cannot survive in plain old sunlight ;) > > it just cracks me up that we spend so much to try and imitate the sun. > > I do get it, an artificial environment requires artificial light. > > -Mike > > -----Original Message----- > From: sevenspringss@... > <mailto:sevenspringss%40wmconnect.com> > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Sent: Fri, Oct 16, 2009 10:30 am > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] OOPS re green water > > Bill, Since you mentioned Drs Foster & Smith, I became curious and > checked one of my most resent catalogs. You mentioned these fixtures > could cost in the hundreds of dollars -- I saw a couple over $1000 and > two more well over $1300. One of these was ON SALE (LOL) -- regularly > $1599.99 ($1600 + shipping). While I might be persuaded to say that's > LUDICROUS, a more accurate description would be that it's absolutely > INSANE ! You could probably replace the best of plants 20 times over > (or more) as a conservative estimate using ordinary flourescent > lighting, if those plants failed, and not have to be concerned that > you'd ever spend any more than such a fixture. Ray

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 43912	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 10/16/2009
Subject: Re: OOPS re green water

Oh no, not MORE floating plants, as it is I have to trim the hornwort, anacharis and duckweed every week (at least) otherwise the tank gets so dim the lower plants get hardly ANY light, LOL. Trust me, I think I have enough floating plants for now, they grow very fast too. Not to mention the water hogging aponogetton ulvaceus, that thing is huge and sends out a "flower" bulb at least once a month, sometimes several times a month, and it stretches the entire length of the tank before it even blooms (it's not a very pretty looking flower, more like a pollen holder than the pollen receiver ;), it's also self reproducing so I trim that sucker just in case, don't need ANOTHER one of those in the same tank, LOL. Heaven forbid it reproduced and scattered seeds throughout the tank ;) Amber Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > > > Now you know why they named it "black beard algae"... it makes you go > ARGGHHHHH!!!! (like a pirate... lol) I just made that up. LOL > > Amber, as you know, you have LOTS of lighting also. You are another that > should slowly throttle back your lighting until you have a better balance. > That might help with your algae issues also... or go with some floating > nutrient sucking plants which will block out some of the light and suck up > more of the nutrients. > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right > side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) > > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On > Behalf Of Amber Berglund > Sent: Friday, October 16, 2009 8:34 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] OOPS re green water > > The only algae I really hate is the "black beard algae" it's like scraping > off a fur coat from an animal I swear. > I had no luck against it with hydrogen peroxide, and I can't use it in my > snail/cherry shrimp tank at all, so I just watch the beard grow more every > week and pluck off what I can from plants without killing them off > ;) LOL. > I think I'm going to have to soak my driftwood in hydrogen peroxide but it > has wisteria growing off of it (it was floating but decided it wanted to > root into the driftwood, and I left it because it looked neat growing > there). Once I soak it and get some of the black beard algae off of it I > think I'm going to finally sink the driftwood (it's still floating on the > surface, has been for a few months now, never sank for some reason, > maybe it > will eventually or it needs some help from a heavy rock, LOL). > > Maybe I should ask the hubby to put in a sun roof where it leaks, too bad > the condo association wouldn't like that ;) > > Amber > > Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > > > > > > Also, in our generally overstocked tanks, compared to nature, we would > > get LOTS of algae with natural sunlight. The artificial lighting, and > > being able to control it, is one of our lines of defense in our quest > > against the dreaded algae. ;-) > > > > Even in ponds, where most people have them overstocked as well, algae > > is a MAJOR problem and usually we have to have floating plants > > covering any where from 50% to 75% of the surface to help with the > > nutrient uptake and to block out the sun. > > > > Of course, unlike Mike, the rest of us do not live in a luxury top > > floor penthouse apartment with a sunroof over the fish tanks... which > > is another reason we need light fixtures. ;-) > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>> > (Links to any articles referenced in > > above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels > > and also under Archives by Year, Month) > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On Behalf Of Deenerz@... > <mailto:Deenerz%40aol.com> > > <mailto:Deenerz%40aol.com> > > Sent: Friday, October 16, 2009 4:15 PM > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] OOPS re green water > > > > So with all these expensive trick lighting systems I am guessing these > > plants cannot survive in plain old sunlight ;) > > > > it just cracks me up that we spend so much to try and imitate the sun. > > > > I do get it, an artificial environment requires artificial light. > > > > -Mike > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: sevenspringss@... > <mailto:sevenspringss%40wmconnect.com> > > <mailto:sevenspringss%40wmconnect.com> > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > Sent: Fri, Oct 16, 2009 10:30 am > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] OOPS re green water > > > > Bill, Since you mentioned Drs Foster & Smith, I became curious and > > checked one of my most resent catalogs. You mentioned these fixtures > > could cost in the hundreds of dollars -- I saw a couple over $1000 and > > two more well over $1300. One of these was ON SALE (LOL) -- regularly > > $1599.99 ($1600 + shipping). While I might be persuaded to say that's > > LUDICROUS, a more accurate description would be that it's absolutely > > INSANE ! You could probably replace the best of plants 20 times over > > (or more) as a conservative estimate using ordinary flourescent > > lighting, if those plants failed, and not have to be concerned that > > you'd ever spend any more than such a fixture. Ray > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 43913	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 10/16/2009
Subject: Re: OOPS re green water

Right, a 15W screw in CFL is equal to around 65W of incandescent lighting (nearly 5X's as much light out of a 15W CFL compared to incandescent... but those are usually cool white bulbs in the 10,000K range, so they are not the same thing that you are looking at for your aquarium although I have used the tubular shaped ones for use in a 10G tank fixture that I have that uses the 7.5W incandescent screw in bulbs. Two of those screw in CFL's made that tank visible from Mars so I put a burned out incandescent in one screw in receptacle and only one of the CFL's in the other screw in receptacle and that made it brightly lit but no longer an attraction for UFO's that might be flying by. ;-) Yes, a single or even a few LED's will not affect things at all except for giving you some moon-lighting effects. You can run them as long as you like or even have room lighting on when the tank lights are not on. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Lainey Alexander Sent: Friday, October 16, 2009 8:58 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] OOPS re green water OK, this is very helpful. I did not realize that these were compacts. I use CFLs for my finches, but they are screw in types - 15 watts gives you 65 or something. So I am getting a ton of light out of these aquarium tubes. I have cut back to 10.5 hours per day so far, will cut back further now. BTW I got the fixture with the blue LED night lights - is it OK to use them? I enjoy them as I am nocturnal. Thank you very much! Lainey http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com On Oct 16, 2009, at 9:53 PM, Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > Now you're talking!!! > > http://www.amazon.com/Coralife-Energy-Savers-6700K-Strait/dp/ > B002DVYC30 > > You do have CFL's, sometimes called Power Compact as in the above ad. > CFL stands for Compact Fluorescent Lighting. > > This means each of your 65 watt CFL's are actually equal to 130 to 180 > watts of standard fluorescent lighting. > > To put this in perspective, with your 37G tank, in the *old* days when > WPG (watts per gallon) was the baseline, 1WPG worked for low light > plants, 2-3WPG for medium light plants and 4-5WPG for high light > plants. > Your two > 65W CFL's would be equal to 260 to 360 Watts of *old* fluorescent > lighting, which means you comparably have anywhere from 7WPG to nearly > 10WPG of lighting on your tank. YOU DEFINITELY DO NOT NEED 12 hours a > day of lighting. Slowly start cutting back from your current 12 hours > down to 11 hours for a few days, then 10 hours, then 9 hours, then 8 > hours, etc., until you see your plants still doing well but NOT the > algae. You may be able to get by with as little as 6-7 hours of > lighting... and with that much light, having some (or a lot after a > short time) floating Anacharis or Hornwort will also help it grow fast > and block out some of the lighting to the algae. > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the > right > side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, > Month) > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On > Behalf Of Lainey Alexander > Sent: Friday, October 16, 2009 6:20 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] OOPS re green water > > All I can see is "coralife 65 watt 6700k" - each bulb has two > tubes, and > they don't quite make a U turn but they are connected by a small > bridge that > seems to be part of the bulb itself. Does this tell us anything? > > Lainey > http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com > > On Oct 16, 2009, at 2:37 PM, Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > > > Long straight tubes with pins on each end? Many other bulbs also > have > > pins but CFL's only have them on one end and the tube usually > makes a > > U- turn and comes back to the same fitting. They should have a brand > > and item number on them... or something else... but they are > probably > > just standard fluorescent tubes. You would have to turn the fixture > > over and look at the bulbs... > > maybe even removing one to look for the writing on the glass on one > > end of the tube. It might/should even have a T-__ code which is a > > standard coding now for fluorescent tubes. > > > > You need to know this information as, depending on the brand/type/ > > etc., you might have to replace these bulbs every six months or so. > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles > > referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, > alphabetically > > under Labels and also under Archives by Year, > > Month) > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Lainey Alexander > > Sent: Friday, October 16, 2009 10:17 AM > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] OOPS re green water > > > > Lenny - > > > > As far as I know, I have regular standard fluorescents, they are the > > ones with the pins - 65 watts, two bulbs, 6700k each. > > > > Lainey > > http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com > > > > On Oct 16, 2009, at 1:16 AM, Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > > > > > Lets see... my first thoughts would be... > > > > > > http://images.veer.com/IMG/PILL/MAI/MAI0002683_P.JPG > > > > > > (maybe without the Parrot as an eye witness... lol... ;-)) > > > > > > It's good to hear you have a 30" x 12" footprint but you need to > > quit > > > using the "depth" term for the front to back measurement, although > > > that is a common term to use for measuring other physical > items, for > > > aquariums, because of the water, "depth" can easily be > > misconstrued to > > > be the depth of the water. This is why the standard for aquarium > > > measurement is L x W x H (Length by Width by Height). I know the > > > "width" part can be confusing also since that would be the long > > sides > > > of most aquarium where we commonly use the long sides as the > length > > > and the front to back measurement as the width. > > > Don't ask me who invented this standard. LOL > > > > > > At least with the 30" x 12" footprint and only 23" tall and your > > tank > > > is still based on the same footprint as a 20G but at least it's a > > 20G > > > LONG footprint instead of a regular 20G footprint. It's also not > > > nearly as tall as what you originally said was a 30" tall tank so > > this > > > makes your lighting more practical... BUT... you still DO NOT > > need 5" > > > to 7" of gravel. > > > Still > > > cut this back to 2" to 3". > > > > > > I do not recall if you ever listed details on your lighting other > > than > > > saying you had two 65W fluorescent bulbs. Are they standard > > > fluorescent bulbs... long single tubes with two pins on each end? > > Look > > > on the bulbs for any item numbers, brand names, etc. and let us > > know. > > > From what I can see on the net, it looks like you could either > have > > > 65W CFL's instead of standard fluorescent bulbs but they do also > > have > > > a T-10 65W Fluorescent tube. While they are both called 65W > (watt), > > > the CFL's would put out 2-3 times more light (lumens) than > standard > > > fluorescent tubes. > > > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles > > > referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, > > alphabetically > > > under Labels and also under Archives by Year, > > > Month) > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Lainey Alexander > > > Sent: Thursday, October 15, 2009 8:38 PM > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > > Subject: [AquaticLife] OOPS re green water > > > > > > I just realized that I completely goofed on these measurements > > > (below), which is why everyone has been so adamant about my crazy > > tank > > > shape! > > > > > > The height is 23, the WIDTH is 30 and the depth is 12. > > > > > > I'm so sorry to make everyone talk about something that was > > incorrect > > > this whole time. But now, can you all let me know if this is a > much > > > more reasonable depth please? Does this change my bioload > issues at > > > all? > > > Does it > > > change the appropriateness of my lights? > > > > > > In five weeks several of my plants are near the top of the water, > > so I > > > think they must be fairly happy with the light. > > > > > > My apologies for being careless. > > > > > > Lainey > > > > > > > > > > > Tank measurements are 30 high, 23 wide and 12 deep. > > > > > > > > Fluorescent lights, 2 @65 watts and 6700k - on 12 and off 12 > > > which is > > > > what I have been told my plants require... > > > > > > > > I used Activ-Flora gravel, and this contains non-nitrogen > > fertilizer > > > > plus "instant-cycling" bacteria > > > > > > > > Not dosing with any chemicals or ferts

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 43914	From: Lainey Alexander	Date: 10/16/2009
Subject: Re: OOPS re green water

Would it be OK if I run the main lighting for five hours then take a couple hour break with no light and then run them again for three or so? IOW I like to see the tank AM and PM, so can I turn the lights off in the afternoon and then back on for the evening? Or will this send the plants and fish into a tailspin? Lainey http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com On Oct 16, 2009, at 10:54 PM, Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > Right, a 15W screw in CFL is equal to around 65W of incandescent > lighting > (nearly 5X's as much light out of a 15W CFL compared to > incandescent... but > those are usually cool white bulbs in the 10,000K range, so they > are not the > same thing that you are looking at for your aquarium although I > have used > the tubular shaped ones for use in a 10G tank fixture that I have > that uses > the 7.5W incandescent screw in bulbs. Two of those screw in CFL's > made that > tank visible from Mars so I put a burned out incandescent in one > screw in > receptacle and only one of the CFL's in the other screw in > receptacle and > that made it brightly lit but no longer an attraction for UFO's > that might > be flying by. ;-) > > Yes, a single or even a few LED's will not affect things at all > except for > giving you some moon-lighting effects. You can run them as long as > you like > or even have room lighting on when the tank lights are not on. > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the > right > side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, > Month) > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On > Behalf Of Lainey Alexander > Sent: Friday, October 16, 2009 8:58 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] OOPS re green water > > OK, this is very helpful. I did not realize that these were compacts. > I use CFLs for my finches, but they are screw in types - 15 watts > gives you > 65 or something. So I am getting a ton of light out of these > aquarium tubes. > I have cut back to 10.5 hours per day so far, will cut back further > now. > > BTW I got the fixture with the blue LED night lights - is it OK to > use them? > I enjoy them as I am nocturnal. > > Thank you very much! > > Lainey > http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com > > On Oct 16, 2009, at 9:53 PM, Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > > > Now you're talking!!! > > > > http://www.amazon.com/Coralife-Energy-Savers-6700K-Strait/dp/ > > B002DVYC30 > > > > You do have CFL's, sometimes called Power Compact as in the above > ad. > > CFL stands for Compact Fluorescent Lighting. > > > > This means each of your 65 watt CFL's are actually equal to 130 > to 180 > > watts of standard fluorescent lighting. > > > > To put this in perspective, with your 37G tank, in the *old* days > when > > WPG (watts per gallon) was the baseline, 1WPG worked for low light > > plants, 2-3WPG for medium light plants and 4-5WPG for high light > > plants. > > Your two > > 65W CFL's would be equal to 260 to 360 Watts of *old* fluorescent > > lighting, which means you comparably have anywhere from 7WPG to > nearly > > 10WPG of lighting on your tank. YOU DEFINITELY DO NOT NEED 12 > hours a > > day of lighting. Slowly start cutting back from your current 12 > hours > > down to 11 hours for a few days, then 10 hours, then 9 hours, then 8 > > hours, etc., until you see your plants still doing well but NOT the > > algae. You may be able to get by with as little as 6-7 hours of > > lighting... and with that much light, having some (or a lot after a > > short time) floating Anacharis or Hornwort will also help it grow > fast > > and block out some of the lighting to the algae. > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > > (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the > > right > > side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, > > Month) > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On > > Behalf Of Lainey Alexander > > Sent: Friday, October 16, 2009 6:20 PM > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] OOPS re green water > > > > All I can see is "coralife 65 watt 6700k" - each bulb has two > > tubes, and > > they don't quite make a U turn but they are connected by a small > > bridge that > > seems to be part of the bulb itself. Does this tell us anything? > > > > Lainey > > http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com > > > > On Oct 16, 2009, at 2:37 PM, Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > > > > > Long straight tubes with pins on each end? Many other bulbs also > > have > > > pins but CFL's only have them on one end and the tube usually > > makes a > > > U- turn and comes back to the same fitting. They should have a > brand > > > and item number on them... or something else... but they are > > probably > > > just standard fluorescent tubes. You would have to turn the > fixture > > > over and look at the bulbs... > > > maybe even removing one to look for the writing on the glass on > one > > > end of the tube. It might/should even have a T-__ code which is a > > > standard coding now for fluorescent tubes. > > > > > > You need to know this information as, depending on the brand/type/ > > > etc., you might have to replace these bulbs every six months or > so. > > > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles > > > referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, > > alphabetically > > > under Labels and also under Archives by Year, > > > Month) > > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Lainey Alexander > > > Sent: Friday, October 16, 2009 10:17 AM > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] OOPS re green water > > > > > > Lenny - > > > > > > As far as I know, I have regular standard fluorescents, they > are the > > > ones with the pins - 65 watts, two bulbs, 6700k each. > > > > > > Lainey > > > http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com > > > > > > On Oct 16, 2009, at 1:16 AM, Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > > > > > > > Lets see... my first thoughts would be... > > > > > > > > http://images.veer.com/IMG/PILL/MAI/MAI0002683_P.JPG > > > > > > > > (maybe without the Parrot as an eye witness... lol... ;-)) > > > > > > > > It's good to hear you have a 30" x 12" footprint but you need to > > > quit > > > > using the "depth" term for the front to back measurement, > although > > > > that is a common term to use for measuring other physical > > items, for > > > > aquariums, because of the water, "depth" can easily be > > > misconstrued to > > > > be the depth of the water. This is why the standard for aquarium > > > > measurement is L x W x H (Length by Width by Height). I know the > > > > "width" part can be confusing also since that would be the long > > > sides > > > > of most aquarium where we commonly use the long sides as the > > length > > > > and the front to back measurement as the width. > > > > Don't ask me who invented this standard. LOL > > > > > > > > At least with the 30" x 12" footprint and only 23" tall and your > > > tank > > > > is still based on the same footprint as a 20G but at least > it's a > > > 20G > > > > LONG footprint instead of a regular 20G footprint. It's also not > > > > nearly as tall as what you originally said was a 30" tall > tank so > > > this > > > > makes your lighting more practical... BUT... you still DO NOT > > > need 5" > > > > to 7" of gravel. > > > > Still > > > > cut this back to 2" to 3". > > > > > > > > I do not recall if you ever listed details on your lighting > other > > > than > > > > saying you had two 65W fluorescent bulbs. Are they standard > > > > fluorescent bulbs... long single tubes with two pins on each > end? > > > Look > > > > on the bulbs for any item numbers, brand names, etc. and let us > > > know. > > > > From what I can see on the net, it looks like you could either > > have > > > > 65W CFL's instead of standard fluorescent bulbs but they do also > > > have > > > > a T-10 65W Fluorescent tube. While they are both called 65W > > (watt), > > > > the CFL's would put out 2-3 times more light (lumens) than > > standard > > > > fluorescent tubes. > > > > > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles > > > > referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, > > > alphabetically > > > > under Labels and also under Archives by Year, > > > > Month) > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > > > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Lainey > Alexander > > > > Sent: Thursday, October 15, 2009 8:38 PM > > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > > > Subject: [AquaticLife] OOPS re green water > > > > > > > > I just realized that I completely goofed on these measurements > > > > (below), which is why everyone has been so adamant about my > crazy > > > tank > > > > shape! > > > > > > > > The height is 23, the WIDTH is 30 and the depth is 12. > > > > > > > > I'm so sorry to make everyone talk about something that was > > > incorrect > > > > this whole time. But now, can you all let me know if this is a > > much > > > > more reasonable depth please? Does this change my bioload > > issues at > > > > all? > > > > Does it > > > > change the appropriateness of my lights? > > > > > > > > In five weeks several of my plants are near the top of the > water, > > > so I > > > > think they must be fairly happy with the light. > > > > > > > > My apologies for being careless. > > > > > > > > Lainey > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Tank measurements are 30 high, 23 wide and 12 deep. > > > > > > > > > > Fluorescent lights, 2 @65 watts and 6700k - on 12 and off 12 > > > > which is > > > > > what I have been told my plants require... > > > > > > > > > > I used Activ-Flora gravel, and this contains non-nitrogen > > > fertilizer > > > > > plus "instant-cycling" bacteria > > > > > > > > > > Not dosing with any chemicals or ferts > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 43915	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 10/16/2009
Subject: Re: OOPS re green water

Actually according to Diana walstad on her forums where I sometimes can be found posting (though not recently), she told me that this "siesta" of lighting is actually beneficial for plants as it gives time for the CO2 to build back up while the lighting is off, and then the plants can start using it again when you turn the lights back on. BUT at the same time she's also talking about natural planted tanks that do not use CO2 injection, and require CO2 output from the critters in the tank. Amber Lainey Alexander wrote: > > > Would it be OK if I run the main lighting for five hours then take a > couple hour break with no light and then run them again for three or > so? IOW I like to see the tank AM and PM, so can I turn the lights > off in the afternoon and then back on for the evening? Or will this > send the plants and fish into a tailspin? > > Lainey > http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com <http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com> > > On Oct 16, 2009, at 10:54 PM, Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > > > Right, a 15W screw in CFL is equal to around 65W of incandescent > > lighting > > (nearly 5X's as much light out of a 15W CFL compared to > > incandescent... but > > those are usually cool white bulbs in the 10,000K range, so they > > are not the > > same thing that you are looking at for your aquarium although I > > have used > > the tubular shaped ones for use in a 10G tank fixture that I have > > that uses > > the 7.5W incandescent screw in bulbs. Two of those screw in CFL's > > made that > > tank visible from Mars so I put a burned out incandescent in one > > screw in > > receptacle and only one of the CFL's in the other screw in > > receptacle and > > that made it brightly lit but no longer an attraction for UFO's > > that might > > be flying by. ;-) > > > > Yes, a single or even a few LED's will not affect things at all > > except for > > giving you some moon-lighting effects. You can run them as long as > > you like > > or even have room lighting on when the tank lights are not on. > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the > > right > > side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, > > Month) > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On > > Behalf Of Lainey Alexander > > Sent: Friday, October 16, 2009 8:58 PM > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] OOPS re green water > > > > OK, this is very helpful. I did not realize that these were compacts. > > I use CFLs for my finches, but they are screw in types - 15 watts > > gives you > > 65 or something. So I am getting a ton of light out of these > > aquarium tubes. > > I have cut back to 10.5 hours per day so far, will cut back further > > now. > > > > BTW I got the fixture with the blue LED night lights - is it OK to > > use them? > > I enjoy them as I am nocturnal. > > > > Thank you very much! > > > > Lainey > > http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com <http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com> > > > > On Oct 16, 2009, at 9:53 PM, Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > > > > > Now you're talking!!! > > > > > > http://www.amazon.com/Coralife-Energy-Savers-6700K-Strait/dp/ > <http://www.amazon.com/Coralife-Energy-Savers-6700K-Strait/dp/> > > > B002DVYC30 > > > > > > You do have CFL's, sometimes called Power Compact as in the above > > ad. > > > CFL stands for Compact Fluorescent Lighting. > > > > > > This means each of your 65 watt CFL's are actually equal to 130 > > to 180 > > > watts of standard fluorescent lighting. > > > > > > To put this in perspective, with your 37G tank, in the *old* days > > when > > > WPG (watts per gallon) was the baseline, 1WPG worked for low light > > > plants, 2-3WPG for medium light plants and 4-5WPG for high light > > > plants. > > > Your two > > > 65W CFL's would be equal to 260 to 360 Watts of *old* fluorescent > > > lighting, which means you comparably have anywhere from 7WPG to > > nearly > > > 10WPG of lighting on your tank. YOU DEFINITELY DO NOT NEED 12 > > hours a > > > day of lighting. Slowly start cutting back from your current 12 > > hours > > > down to 11 hours for a few days, then 10 hours, then 9 hours, then 8 > > > hours, etc., until you see your plants still doing well but NOT the > > > algae. You may be able to get by with as little as 6-7 hours of > > > lighting... and with that much light, having some (or a lot after a > > > short time) floating Anacharis or Hornwort will also help it grow > > fast > > > and block out some of the lighting to the algae. > > > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the > > > right > > > side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, > > > Month) > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On > > > Behalf Of Lainey Alexander > > > Sent: Friday, October 16, 2009 6:20 PM > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] OOPS re green water > > > > > > All I can see is "coralife 65 watt 6700k" - each bulb has two > > > tubes, and > > > they don't quite make a U turn but they are connected by a small > > > bridge that > > > seems to be part of the bulb itself. Does this tell us anything? > > > > > > Lainey > > > http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com > <http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com> > > > > > > On Oct 16, 2009, at 2:37 PM, Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > > > > > > > Long straight tubes with pins on each end? Many other bulbs also > > > have > > > > pins but CFL's only have them on one end and the tube usually > > > makes a > > > > U- turn and comes back to the same fitting. They should have a > > brand > > > > and item number on them... or something else... but they are > > > probably > > > > just standard fluorescent tubes. You would have to turn the > > fixture > > > > over and look at the bulbs... > > > > maybe even removing one to look for the writing on the glass on > > one > > > > end of the tube. It might/should even have a T-__ code which is a > > > > standard coding now for fluorescent tubes. > > > > > > > > You need to know this information as, depending on the brand/type/ > > > > etc., you might have to replace these bulbs every six months or > > so. > > > > > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> (Links to any articles > > > > referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, > > > alphabetically > > > > under Labels and also under Archives by Year, > > > > Month) > > > > > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On Behalf Of Lainey Alexander > > > > Sent: Friday, October 16, 2009 10:17 AM > > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] OOPS re green water > > > > > > > > Lenny - > > > > > > > > As far as I know, I have regular standard fluorescents, they > > are the > > > > ones with the pins - 65 watts, two bulbs, 6700k each. > > > > > > > > Lainey > > > > http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com > <http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com> > > > > > > > > On Oct 16, 2009, at 1:16 AM, Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > > > > > > > > > Lets see... my first thoughts would be... > > > > > > > > > > http://images.veer.com/IMG/PILL/MAI/MAI0002683_P.JPG > <http://images.veer.com/IMG/PILL/MAI/MAI0002683_P.JPG> > > > > > > > > > > (maybe without the Parrot as an eye witness... lol... ;-)) > > > > > > > > > > It's good to hear you have a 30" x 12" footprint but you need to > > > > quit > > > > > using the "depth" term for the front to back measurement, > > although > > > > > that is a common term to use for measuring other physical > > > items, for > > > > > aquariums, because of the water, "depth" can easily be > > > > misconstrued to > > > > > be the depth of the water. This is why the standard for aquarium > > > > > measurement is L x W x H (Length by Width by Height). I know the > > > > > "width" part can be confusing also since that would be the long > > > > sides > > > > > of most aquarium where we commonly use the long sides as the > > > length > > > > > and the front to back measurement as the width. > > > > > Don't ask me who invented this standard. LOL > > > > > > > > > > At least with the 30" x 12" footprint and only 23" tall and your > > > > tank > > > > > is still based on the same footprint as a 20G but at least > > it's a > > > > 20G > > > > > LONG footprint instead of a regular 20G footprint. It's also not > > > > > nearly as tall as what you originally said was a 30" tall > > tank so > > > > this > > > > > makes your lighting more practical... BUT... you still DO NOT > > > > need 5" > > > > > to 7" of gravel. > > > > > Still > > > > > cut this back to 2" to 3". > > > > > > > > > > I do not recall if you ever listed details on your lighting > > other > > > > than > > > > > saying you had two 65W fluorescent bulbs. Are they standard > > > > > fluorescent bulbs... long single tubes with two pins on each > > end? > > > > Look > > > > > on the bulbs for any item numbers, brand names, etc. and let us > > > > know. > > > > > From what I can see on the net, it looks like you could either > > > have > > > > > 65W CFL's instead of standard fluorescent bulbs but they do also > > > > have > > > > > a T-10 65W Fluorescent tube. While they are both called 65W > > > (watt), > > > > > the CFL's would put out 2-3 times more light (lumens) than > > > standard > > > > > fluorescent tubes. > > > > > > > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > > > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> (Links to any articles > > > > > referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, > > > > alphabetically > > > > > under Labels and also under Archives by Year, > > > > > Month) > > > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On Behalf Of Lainey > > Alexander > > > > > Sent: Thursday, October 15, 2009 8:38 PM > > > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > Subject: [AquaticLife] OOPS re green water > > > > > > > > > > I just realized that I completely goofed on these measurements > > > > > (below), which is why everyone has been so adamant about my > > crazy > > > > tank > > > > > shape! > > > > > > > > > > The height is 23, the WIDTH is 30 and the depth is 12. > > > > > > > > > > I'm so sorry to make everyone talk about something that was > > > > incorrect > > > > > this whole time. But now, can you all let me know if this is a > > > much > > > > > more reasonable depth please? Does this change my bioload > > > issues at > > > > > all? > > > > > Does it > > > > > change the appropriateness of my lights? > > > > > > > > > > In five weeks several of my plants are near the top of the > > water, > > > > so I > > > > > think they must be fairly happy with the light. > > > > > > > > > > My apologies for being careless. > > > > > > > > > > Lainey > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Tank measurements are 30 high, 23 wide and 12 deep. > > > > > > > > > > > > Fluorescent lights, 2 @65 watts and 6700k - on 12 and off 12 > > > > > which is > > > > > > what I have been told my plants require... > > > > > > > > > > > > I used Activ-Flora gravel, and this contains non-nitrogen > > > > fertilizer > > > > > > plus "instant-cycling" bacteria > > > > > > > > > > > > Not dosing with any chemicals or ferts > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 43916	From: Lainey Alexander	Date: 10/16/2009
Subject: Re: OOPS re green water

Ya, I would need to shut down my COtwo injection during the siesta - Lainey http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com On Oct 16, 2009, at 11:27 PM, Amber Berglund wrote: > Actually according to Diana walstad on her forums where I sometimes > can > be found posting (though not recently), she told me that this "siesta" > of lighting is actually beneficial for plants as it gives time for the > CO2 to build back up while the lighting is off, and then the plants > can > start using it again when you turn the lights back on. BUT at the same > time she's also talking about natural planted tanks that do not use > CO2 > injection, and require CO2 output from the critters in the tank. > > Amber > > Lainey Alexander wrote: > > > > > > Would it be OK if I run the main lighting for five hours then take a > > couple hour break with no light and then run them again for three or > > so? IOW I like to see the tank AM and PM, so can I turn the lights > > off in the afternoon and then back on for the evening? Or will this > > send the plants and fish into a tailspin? > > > > Lainey > > http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com <http:// > www.grasslandsgouldians.com> > > > > On Oct 16, 2009, at 10:54 PM, Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > > > > > Right, a 15W screw in CFL is equal to around 65W of incandescent > > > lighting > > > (nearly 5X's as much light out of a 15W CFL compared to > > > incandescent... but > > > those are usually cool white bulbs in the 10,000K range, so they > > > are not the > > > same thing that you are looking at for your aquarium although I > > > have used > > > the tubular shaped ones for use in a 10G tank fixture that I have > > > that uses > > > the 7.5W incandescent screw in bulbs. Two of those screw in CFL's > > > made that > > > tank visible from Mars so I put a burned out incandescent in one > > > screw in > > > receptacle and only one of the CFL's in the other screw in > > > receptacle and > > > that made it brightly lit but no longer an attraction for UFO's > > > that might > > > be flying by. ;-) > > > > > > Yes, a single or even a few LED's will not affect things at all > > > except for > > > giving you some moon-lighting effects. You can run them as long as > > > you like > > > or even have room lighting on when the tank lights are not on. > > > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the > > > right > > > side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, > > > Month) > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On > > > Behalf Of Lainey Alexander > > > Sent: Friday, October 16, 2009 8:58 PM > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife% > 40yahoogroups.com> > > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] OOPS re green water > > > > > > OK, this is very helpful. I did not realize that these were > compacts. > > > I use CFLs for my finches, but they are screw in types - 15 watts > > > gives you > > > 65 or something. So I am getting a ton of light out of these > > > aquarium tubes. > > > I have cut back to 10.5 hours per day so far, will cut back > further > > > now. > > > > > > BTW I got the fixture with the blue LED night lights - is it OK to > > > use them? > > > I enjoy them as I am nocturnal. > > > > > > Thank you very much! > > > > > > Lainey > > > http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com <http:// > www.grasslandsgouldians.com> > > > > > > On Oct 16, 2009, at 9:53 PM, Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > > > > > > > Now you're talking!!! > > > > > > > > http://www.amazon.com/Coralife-Energy-Savers-6700K-Strait/dp/ > > <http://www.amazon.com/Coralife-Energy-Savers-6700K-Strait/dp/> > > > > B002DVYC30 > > > > > > > > You do have CFL's, sometimes called Power Compact as in the > above > > > ad. > > > > CFL stands for Compact Fluorescent Lighting. > > > > > > > > This means each of your 65 watt CFL's are actually equal to 130 > > > to 180 > > > > watts of standard fluorescent lighting. > > > > > > > > To put this in perspective, with your 37G tank, in the *old* > days > > > when > > > > WPG (watts per gallon) was the baseline, 1WPG worked for low > light > > > > plants, 2-3WPG for medium light plants and 4-5WPG for high light > > > > plants. > > > > Your two > > > > 65W CFL's would be equal to 260 to 360 Watts of *old* > fluorescent > > > > lighting, which means you comparably have anywhere from 7WPG to > > > nearly > > > > 10WPG of lighting on your tank. YOU DEFINITELY DO NOT NEED 12 > > > hours a > > > > day of lighting. Slowly start cutting back from your current 12 > > > hours > > > > down to 11 hours for a few days, then 10 hours, then 9 hours, > then 8 > > > > hours, etc., until you see your plants still doing well but > NOT the > > > > algae. You may be able to get by with as little as 6-7 hours of > > > > lighting... and with that much light, having some (or a lot > after a > > > > short time) floating Anacharis or Hornwort will also help it > grow > > > fast > > > > and block out some of the lighting to the algae. > > > > > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > > (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed > on the > > > > right > > > > side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by > Year, > > > > Month) > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On > > > > Behalf Of Lainey Alexander > > > > Sent: Friday, October 16, 2009 6:20 PM > > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife% > 40yahoogroups.com> > > > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] OOPS re green water > > > > > > > > All I can see is "coralife 65 watt 6700k" - each bulb has two > > > > tubes, and > > > > they don't quite make a U turn but they are connected by a small > > > > bridge that > > > > seems to be part of the bulb itself. Does this tell us anything? > > > > > > > > Lainey > > > > http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com > > <http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com> > > > > > > > > On Oct 16, 2009, at 2:37 PM, Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > > > > > > > > > Long straight tubes with pins on each end? Many other bulbs > also > > > > have > > > > > pins but CFL's only have them on one end and the tube usually > > > > makes a > > > > > U- turn and comes back to the same fitting. They should have a > > > brand > > > > > and item number on them... or something else... but they are > > > > probably > > > > > just standard fluorescent tubes. You would have to turn the > > > fixture > > > > > over and look at the bulbs... > > > > > maybe even removing one to look for the writing on the > glass on > > > one > > > > > end of the tube. It might/should even have a T-__ code > which is a > > > > > standard coding now for fluorescent tubes. > > > > > > > > > > You need to know this information as, depending on the > brand/type/ > > > > > etc., you might have to replace these bulbs every six > months or > > > so. > > > > > > > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > > > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> (Links to any articles > > > > > referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, > > > > alphabetically > > > > > under Labels and also under Archives by Year, > > > > > Month) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On Behalf Of Lainey > Alexander > > > > > Sent: Friday, October 16, 2009 10:17 AM > > > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] OOPS re green water > > > > > > > > > > Lenny - > > > > > > > > > > As far as I know, I have regular standard fluorescents, they > > > are the > > > > > ones with the pins - 65 watts, two bulbs, 6700k each. > > > > > > > > > > Lainey > > > > > http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com > > <http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com> > > > > > > > > > > On Oct 16, 2009, at 1:16 AM, Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > Lets see... my first thoughts would be... > > > > > > > > > > > > http://images.veer.com/IMG/PILL/MAI/MAI0002683_P.JPG > > <http://images.veer.com/IMG/PILL/MAI/MAI0002683_P.JPG> > > > > > > > > > > > > (maybe without the Parrot as an eye witness... lol... ;-)) > > > > > > > > > > > > It's good to hear you have a 30" x 12" footprint but you > need to > > > > > quit > > > > > > using the "depth" term for the front to back measurement, > > > although > > > > > > that is a common term to use for measuring other physical > > > > items, for > > > > > > aquariums, because of the water, "depth" can easily be > > > > > misconstrued to > > > > > > be the depth of the water. This is why the standard for > aquarium > > > > > > measurement is L x W x H (Length by Width by Height). I > know the > > > > > > "width" part can be confusing also since that would be > the long > > > > > sides > > > > > > of most aquarium where we commonly use the long sides as the > > > > length > > > > > > and the front to back measurement as the width. > > > > > > Don't ask me who invented this standard. LOL > > > > > > > > > > > > At least with the 30" x 12" footprint and only 23" tall > and your > > > > > tank > > > > > > is still based on the same footprint as a 20G but at least > > > it's a > > > > > 20G > > > > > > LONG footprint instead of a regular 20G footprint. It's > also not > > > > > > nearly as tall as what you originally said was a 30" tall > > > tank so > > > > > this > > > > > > makes your lighting more practical... BUT... you still DO > NOT > > > > > need 5" > > > > > > to 7" of gravel. > > > > > > Still > > > > > > cut this back to 2" to 3". > > > > > > > > > > > > I do not recall if you ever listed details on your lighting > > > other > > > > > than > > > > > > saying you had two 65W fluorescent bulbs. Are they standard > > > > > > fluorescent bulbs... long single tubes with two pins on each > > > end? > > > > > Look > > > > > > on the bulbs for any item numbers, brand names, etc. and > let us > > > > > know. > > > > > > From what I can see on the net, it looks like you could > either > > > > have > > > > > > 65W CFL's instead of standard fluorescent bulbs but they > do also > > > > > have > > > > > > a T-10 65W Fluorescent tube. While they are both called 65W > > > > (watt), > > > > > > the CFL's would put out 2-3 times more light (lumens) than > > > > standard > > > > > > fluorescent tubes. > > > > > > > > > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > > > > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> (Links to any articles > > > > > > referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, > > > > > alphabetically > > > > > > under Labels and also under Archives by Year, > > > > > > Month) > > > > > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > > > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On Behalf Of Lainey > > > Alexander > > > > > > Sent: Thursday, October 15, 2009 8:38 PM > > > > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > Subject: [AquaticLife] OOPS re green water > > > > > > > > > > > > I just realized that I completely goofed on these > measurements > > > > > > (below), which is why everyone has been so adamant about my > > > crazy > > > > > tank > > > > > > shape! > > > > > > > > > > > > The height is 23, the WIDTH is 30 and the depth is 12. > > > > > > > > > > > > I'm so sorry to make everyone talk about something that was > > > > > incorrect > > > > > > this whole time. But now, can you all let me know if this > is a > > > > much > > > > > > more reasonable depth please? Does this change my bioload > > > > issues at > > > > > > all? > > > > > > Does it > > > > > > change the appropriateness of my lights? > > > > > > > > > > > > In five weeks several of my plants are near the top of the > > > water, > > > > > so I > > > > > > think they must be fairly happy with the light. > > > > > > > > > > > > My apologies for being careless. > > > > > > > > > > > > Lainey > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Tank measurements are 30 high, 23 wide and 12 deep. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Fluorescent lights, 2 @65 watts and 6700k - on 12 and > off 12 > > > > > > which is > > > > > > > what I have been told my plants require... > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I used Activ-Flora gravel, and this contains non-nitrogen > > > > > fertilizer > > > > > > > plus "instant-cycling" bacteria > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Not dosing with any chemicals or ferts > > > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 43917	From: Lainey Alexander	Date: 10/16/2009
Subject: CO2 versus Excel

Me again - So did I totally waste my money on CO2 injection and I could have just used Seachem's Excel for carbon for the plants? Please tell me no! Thanks, Lainey http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 43918	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 10/16/2009
Subject: Re: OOPS re green water

I've seen some people talk about this but I do not think it's probably very good for the plants or fish... at least that's not how lighting works in nature... unless you count occasional thunder storms or heavy clouds that block out the sun. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Lainey Alexander Sent: Friday, October 16, 2009 10:24 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] OOPS re green water Would it be OK if I run the main lighting for five hours then take a couple hour break with no light and then run them again for three or so? IOW I like to see the tank AM and PM, so can I turn the lights off in the afternoon and then back on for the evening? Or will this send the plants and fish into a tailspin? Lainey http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com On Oct 16, 2009, at 10:54 PM, Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > Right, a 15W screw in CFL is equal to around 65W of incandescent > lighting (nearly 5X's as much light out of a 15W CFL compared to > incandescent... but those are usually cool white bulbs in the 10,000K > range, so they are not the same thing that you are looking at for your > aquarium although I have used the tubular shaped ones for use in a 10G > tank fixture that I have that uses the 7.5W incandescent screw in > bulbs. Two of those screw in CFL's made that tank visible from Mars so > I put a burned out incandescent in one screw in receptacle and only > one of the CFL's in the other screw in receptacle and that made it > brightly lit but no longer an attraction for UFO's that might be > flying by. ;-) > > Yes, a single or even a few LED's will not affect things at all except > for giving you some moon-lighting effects. You can run them as long as > you like or even have room lighting on when the tank lights are not > on. > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles > referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically > under Labels and also under Archives by Year, > Month) > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Lainey Alexander > Sent: Friday, October 16, 2009 8:58 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] OOPS re green water > > OK, this is very helpful. I did not realize that these were compacts. > I use CFLs for my finches, but they are screw in types - 15 watts > gives you > 65 or something. So I am getting a ton of light out of these aquarium > tubes. > I have cut back to 10.5 hours per day so far, will cut back further > now. > > BTW I got the fixture with the blue LED night lights - is it OK to use > them? > I enjoy them as I am nocturnal. > > Thank you very much! > > Lainey > http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com > > On Oct 16, 2009, at 9:53 PM, Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > > > Now you're talking!!! > > > > http://www.amazon.com/Coralife-Energy-Savers-6700K-Strait/dp/ > > B002DVYC30 > > > > You do have CFL's, sometimes called Power Compact as in the above > ad. > > CFL stands for Compact Fluorescent Lighting. > > > > This means each of your 65 watt CFL's are actually equal to 130 > to 180 > > watts of standard fluorescent lighting. > > > > To put this in perspective, with your 37G tank, in the *old* days > when > > WPG (watts per gallon) was the baseline, 1WPG worked for low light > > plants, 2-3WPG for medium light plants and 4-5WPG for high light > > plants. > > Your two > > 65W CFL's would be equal to 260 to 360 Watts of *old* fluorescent > > lighting, which means you comparably have anywhere from 7WPG to > nearly > > 10WPG of lighting on your tank. YOU DEFINITELY DO NOT NEED 12 > hours a > > day of lighting. Slowly start cutting back from your current 12 > hours > > down to 11 hours for a few days, then 10 hours, then 9 hours, then 8 > > hours, etc., until you see your plants still doing well but NOT the > > algae. You may be able to get by with as little as 6-7 hours of > > lighting... and with that much light, having some (or a lot after a > > short time) floating Anacharis or Hornwort will also help it grow > fast > > and block out some of the lighting to the algae. > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles > > referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, > > alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, > > Month) > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Lainey Alexander > > Sent: Friday, October 16, 2009 6:20 PM > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] OOPS re green water > > > > All I can see is "coralife 65 watt 6700k" - each bulb has two tubes, > > and they don't quite make a U turn but they are connected by a small > > bridge that seems to be part of the bulb itself. Does this tell us > > anything? > > > > Lainey > > http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com > > > > On Oct 16, 2009, at 2:37 PM, Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > > > > > Long straight tubes with pins on each end? Many other bulbs also > > have > > > pins but CFL's only have them on one end and the tube usually > > makes a > > > U- turn and comes back to the same fitting. They should have a > brand > > > and item number on them... or something else... but they are > > probably > > > just standard fluorescent tubes. You would have to turn the > fixture > > > over and look at the bulbs... > > > maybe even removing one to look for the writing on the glass on > one > > > end of the tube. It might/should even have a T-__ code which is a > > > standard coding now for fluorescent tubes. > > > > > > You need to know this information as, depending on the brand/type/ > > > etc., you might have to replace these bulbs every six months or > so. > > > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles > > > referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, > > alphabetically > > > under Labels and also under Archives by Year, > > > Month) > > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Lainey Alexander > > > Sent: Friday, October 16, 2009 10:17 AM > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] OOPS re green water > > > > > > Lenny - > > > > > > As far as I know, I have regular standard fluorescents, they > are the > > > ones with the pins - 65 watts, two bulbs, 6700k each. > > > > > > Lainey > > > http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com > > > > > > On Oct 16, 2009, at 1:16 AM, Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > > > > > > > Lets see... my first thoughts would be... > > > > > > > > http://images.veer.com/IMG/PILL/MAI/MAI0002683_P.JPG > > > > > > > > (maybe without the Parrot as an eye witness... lol... ;-)) > > > > > > > > It's good to hear you have a 30" x 12" footprint but you need to > > > quit > > > > using the "depth" term for the front to back measurement, > although > > > > that is a common term to use for measuring other physical > > items, for > > > > aquariums, because of the water, "depth" can easily be > > > misconstrued to > > > > be the depth of the water. This is why the standard for aquarium > > > > measurement is L x W x H (Length by Width by Height). I know the > > > > "width" part can be confusing also since that would be the long > > > sides > > > > of most aquarium where we commonly use the long sides as the > > length > > > > and the front to back measurement as the width. > > > > Don't ask me who invented this standard. LOL > > > > > > > > At least with the 30" x 12" footprint and only 23" tall and your > > > tank > > > > is still based on the same footprint as a 20G but at least > it's a > > > 20G > > > > LONG footprint instead of a regular 20G footprint. It's also not > > > > nearly as tall as what you originally said was a 30" tall > tank so > > > this > > > > makes your lighting more practical... BUT... you still DO NOT > > > need 5" > > > > to 7" of gravel. > > > > Still > > > > cut this back to 2" to 3". > > > > > > > > I do not recall if you ever listed details on your lighting > other > > > than > > > > saying you had two 65W fluorescent bulbs. Are they standard > > > > fluorescent bulbs... long single tubes with two pins on each > end? > > > Look > > > > on the bulbs for any item numbers, brand names, etc. and let us > > > know. > > > > From what I can see on the net, it looks like you could either > > have > > > > 65W CFL's instead of standard fluorescent bulbs but they do also > > > have > > > > a T-10 65W Fluorescent tube. While they are both called 65W > > (watt), > > > > the CFL's would put out 2-3 times more light (lumens) than > > standard > > > > fluorescent tubes. > > > > > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles > > > > referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, > > > alphabetically > > > > under Labels and also under Archives by Year, > > > > Month) > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > > > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Lainey > Alexander > > > > Sent: Thursday, October 15, 2009 8:38 PM > > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > > > Subject: [AquaticLife] OOPS re green water > > > > > > > > I just realized that I completely goofed on these measurements > > > > (below), which is why everyone has been so adamant about my > crazy > > > tank > > > > shape! > > > > > > > > The height is 23, the WIDTH is 30 and the depth is 12. > > > > > > > > I'm so sorry to make everyone talk about something that was > > > incorrect > > > > this whole time. But now, can you all let me know if this is a > > much > > > > more reasonable depth please? Does this change my bioload > > issues at > > > > all? > > > > Does it > > > > change the appropriateness of my lights? > > > > > > > > In five weeks several of my plants are near the top of the > water, > > > so I > > > > think they must be fairly happy with the light. > > > > > > > > My apologies for being careless. > > > > > > > > Lainey > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Tank measurements are 30 high, 23 wide and 12 deep. > > > > > > > > > > Fluorescent lights, 2 @65 watts and 6700k - on 12 and off 12 > > > > which is > > > > > what I have been told my plants require... > > > > > > > > > > I used Activ-Flora gravel, and this contains non-nitrogen > > > fertilizer > > > > > plus "instant-cycling" bacteria > > > > > > > > > > Not dosing with any chemicals or ferts

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 43919	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 10/16/2009
Subject: Re: CO2 versus Excel

I think CO2 injection is MUCH cheaper in the long run. You would have to figure out how long a tank of CO2 is lasting you and divide the number of days by the price of the CO2 tank to figure out your cost per day. Then figure out the same with the recommended dose of Excel for your sized tank for the cost per day for Excel. CO2 is pretty cheap so the cost per day should be MUCH cheaper for the CO2. Of course, you'll have to factor in the initial cost of the rest of the system and divide it by the number of days of the expected lifespan of the system to factor that cost as well. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Lainey Alexander Sent: Friday, October 16, 2009 10:42 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] CO2 versus Excel Me again - So did I totally waste my money on CO2 injection and I could have just used Seachem's Excel for carbon for the plants? Please tell me no! Thanks, Lainey http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 43920	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 10/16/2009
Subject: Re: OOPS re green water

While that sounds scientifically correct, I'm not so sure it's good for the psyche of the fish... or the plants, if they have a psyche. It would be comparable to a human taking two 3-4 hour naps a day instead of getting a solid 6-8 hours of sleep. While this can be and is done by some for short time periods... like with a newborn baby, it's very taxing on the physical and emotional well being of the person. I'm also wondering if it wouldn't raise the metabolism of the fish to where they are living two days for every day they are actually alive, thus cutting their lifespan in half. I guess someone would have to experiment with this over the course of 10 years to see what happens to the fish long term. An alternative, maybe, if the normal room lights are still left on while the tank lights are turned off for a few hours, at least that would mimic an overcast day so the fish would still know it's day time in between the bright sunny parts of the day but if the room is really dark and the lights are turned off, they would think it's night time and then be reawakened after only a few hours sleep which might not be good for their long term health. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Amber Berglund Sent: Friday, October 16, 2009 10:27 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] OOPS re green water Actually according to Diana walstad on her forums where I sometimes can be found posting (though not recently), she told me that this "siesta" of lighting is actually beneficial for plants as it gives time for the CO2 to build back up while the lighting is off, and then the plants can start using it again when you turn the lights back on. BUT at the same time she's also talking about natural planted tanks that do not use CO2 injection, and require CO2 output from the critters in the tank. Amber Lainey Alexander wrote: > > > Would it be OK if I run the main lighting for five hours then take a > couple hour break with no light and then run them again for three or > so? IOW I like to see the tank AM and PM, so can I turn the lights off > in the afternoon and then back on for the evening? Or will this send > the plants and fish into a tailspin? > > Lainey > http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com > <http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com> > > On Oct 16, 2009, at 10:54 PM, Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > > > Right, a 15W screw in CFL is equal to around 65W of incandescent > > lighting (nearly 5X's as much light out of a 15W CFL compared to > > incandescent... but those are usually cool white bulbs in the > > 10,000K range, so they are not the same thing that you are looking > > at for your aquarium although I have used the tubular shaped ones > > for use in a 10G tank fixture that I have that uses the 7.5W > > incandescent screw in bulbs. Two of those screw in CFL's made that > > tank visible from Mars so I put a burned out incandescent in one > > screw in receptacle and only one of the CFL's in the other screw in > > receptacle and that made it brightly lit but no longer an attraction > > for UFO's that might be flying by. ;-) > > > > Yes, a single or even a few LED's will not affect things at all > > except for giving you some moon-lighting effects. You can run them > > as long as you like or even have room lighting on when the tank > > lights are not on. > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the > > right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by > > Year, > > Month) > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On > > Behalf Of Lainey Alexander > > Sent: Friday, October 16, 2009 8:58 PM > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] OOPS re green water > > > > OK, this is very helpful. I did not realize that these were compacts. > > I use CFLs for my finches, but they are screw in types - 15 watts > > gives you > > 65 or something. So I am getting a ton of light out of these > > aquarium tubes. > > I have cut back to 10.5 hours per day so far, will cut back further > > now. > > > > BTW I got the fixture with the blue LED night lights - is it OK to > > use them? > > I enjoy them as I am nocturnal. > > > > Thank you very much! > > > > Lainey > > http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com > > <http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com> > > > > On Oct 16, 2009, at 9:53 PM, Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > > > > > Now you're talking!!! > > > > > > http://www.amazon.com/Coralife-Energy-Savers-6700K-Strait/dp/ > <http://www.amazon.com/Coralife-Energy-Savers-6700K-Strait/dp/> > > > B002DVYC30 > > > > > > You do have CFL's, sometimes called Power Compact as in the above > > ad. > > > CFL stands for Compact Fluorescent Lighting. > > > > > > This means each of your 65 watt CFL's are actually equal to 130 > > to 180 > > > watts of standard fluorescent lighting. > > > > > > To put this in perspective, with your 37G tank, in the *old* days > > when > > > WPG (watts per gallon) was the baseline, 1WPG worked for low light > > > plants, 2-3WPG for medium light plants and 4-5WPG for high light > > > plants. > > > Your two > > > 65W CFL's would be equal to 260 to 360 Watts of *old* fluorescent > > > lighting, which means you comparably have anywhere from 7WPG to > > nearly > > > 10WPG of lighting on your tank. YOU DEFINITELY DO NOT NEED 12 > > hours a > > > day of lighting. Slowly start cutting back from your current 12 > > hours > > > down to 11 hours for a few days, then 10 hours, then 9 hours, then > > > 8 hours, etc., until you see your plants still doing well but NOT > > > the algae. You may be able to get by with as little as 6-7 hours > > > of lighting... and with that much light, having some (or a lot > > > after a short time) floating Anacharis or Hornwort will also help > > > it grow > > fast > > > and block out some of the lighting to the algae. > > > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the > > > right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by > > > Year, > > > Month) > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On > > > Behalf Of Lainey Alexander > > > Sent: Friday, October 16, 2009 6:20 PM > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] OOPS re green water > > > > > > All I can see is "coralife 65 watt 6700k" - each bulb has two > > > tubes, and they don't quite make a U turn but they are connected > > > by a small bridge that seems to be part of the bulb itself. Does > > > this tell us anything? > > > > > > Lainey > > > http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com > <http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com> > > > > > > On Oct 16, 2009, at 2:37 PM, Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > > > > > > > Long straight tubes with pins on each end? Many other bulbs also > > > have > > > > pins but CFL's only have them on one end and the tube usually > > > makes a > > > > U- turn and comes back to the same fitting. They should have a > > brand > > > > and item number on them... or something else... but they are > > > probably > > > > just standard fluorescent tubes. You would have to turn the > > fixture > > > > over and look at the bulbs... > > > > maybe even removing one to look for the writing on the glass on > > one > > > > end of the tube. It might/should even have a T-__ code which is > > > > a standard coding now for fluorescent tubes. > > > > > > > > You need to know this information as, depending on the > > > > brand/type/ etc., you might have to replace these bulbs every > > > > six months or > > so. > > > > > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> (Links to any articles > > > > referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, > > > alphabetically > > > > under Labels and also under Archives by Year, > > > > Month) > > > > > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On Behalf Of Lainey Alexander > > > > Sent: Friday, October 16, 2009 10:17 AM > > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] OOPS re green water > > > > > > > > Lenny - > > > > > > > > As far as I know, I have regular standard fluorescents, they > > are the > > > > ones with the pins - 65 watts, two bulbs, 6700k each. > > > > > > > > Lainey > > > > http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com > <http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com> > > > > > > > > On Oct 16, 2009, at 1:16 AM, Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > > > > > > > > > Lets see... my first thoughts would be... > > > > > > > > > > http://images.veer.com/IMG/PILL/MAI/MAI0002683_P.JPG > <http://images.veer.com/IMG/PILL/MAI/MAI0002683_P.JPG> > > > > > > > > > > (maybe without the Parrot as an eye witness... lol... ;-)) > > > > > > > > > > It's good to hear you have a 30" x 12" footprint but you need > > > > > to > > > > quit > > > > > using the "depth" term for the front to back measurement, > > although > > > > > that is a common term to use for measuring other physical > > > items, for > > > > > aquariums, because of the water, "depth" can easily be > > > > misconstrued to > > > > > be the depth of the water. This is why the standard for > > > > > aquarium measurement is L x W x H (Length by Width by Height). > > > > > I know the "width" part can be confusing also since that would > > > > > be the long > > > > sides > > > > > of most aquarium where we commonly use the long sides as the > > > length > > > > > and the front to back measurement as the width. > > > > > Don't ask me who invented this standard. LOL > > > > > > > > > > At least with the 30" x 12" footprint and only 23" tall and > > > > > your > > > > tank > > > > > is still based on the same footprint as a 20G but at least > > it's a > > > > 20G > > > > > LONG footprint instead of a regular 20G footprint. It's also > > > > > not nearly as tall as what you originally said was a 30" tall > > tank so > > > > this > > > > > makes your lighting more practical... BUT... you still DO NOT > > > > need 5" > > > > > to 7" of gravel. > > > > > Still > > > > > cut this back to 2" to 3". > > > > > > > > > > I do not recall if you ever listed details on your lighting > > other > > > > than > > > > > saying you had two 65W fluorescent bulbs. Are they standard > > > > > fluorescent bulbs... long single tubes with two pins on each > > end? > > > > Look > > > > > on the bulbs for any item numbers, brand names, etc. and let > > > > > us > > > > know. > > > > > From what I can see on the net, it looks like you could either > > > have > > > > > 65W CFL's instead of standard fluorescent bulbs but they do > > > > > also > > > > have > > > > > a T-10 65W Fluorescent tube. While they are both called 65W > > > (watt), > > > > > the CFL's would put out 2-3 times more light (lumens) than > > > standard > > > > > fluorescent tubes. > > > > > > > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > > > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> (Links to any articles > > > > > referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, > > > > alphabetically > > > > > under Labels and also under Archives by Year, > > > > > Month) > > > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On Behalf Of Lainey > > Alexander > > > > > Sent: Thursday, October 15, 2009 8:38 PM > > > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > Subject: [AquaticLife] OOPS re green water > > > > > > > > > > I just realized that I completely goofed on these measurements > > > > > (below), which is why everyone has been so adamant about my > > crazy > > > > tank > > > > > shape! > > > > > > > > > > The height is 23, the WIDTH is 30 and the depth is 12. > > > > > > > > > > I'm so sorry to make everyone talk about something that was > > > > incorrect > > > > > this whole time. But now, can you all let me know if this is a > > > much > > > > > more reasonable depth please? Does this change my bioload > > > issues at > > > > > all? > > > > > Does it > > > > > change the appropriateness of my lights? > > > > > > > > > > In five weeks several of my plants are near the top of the > > water, > > > > so I > > > > > think they must be fairly happy with the light. > > > > > > > > > > My apologies for being careless. > > > > > > > > > > Lainey > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Tank measurements are 30 high, 23 wide and 12 deep. > > > > > > > > > > > > Fluorescent lights, 2 @65 watts and 6700k - on 12 and off 12 > > > > > which is > > > > > > what I have been told my plants require... > > > > > > > > > > > > I used Activ-Flora gravel, and this contains non-nitrogen > > > > fertilizer > > > > > > plus "instant-cycling" bacteria > > > > > > > > > > > > Not dosing with any chemicals or ferts

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 43921	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 10/16/2009
Subject: Re: OOPS re green water

Umm Lenny the tank would be off during the day, so unless the room has no windows or REALLY thick curtains there should at least be some ambient room lighting to light up the tank, plus she has LED's that she could leave running too. Not to mention that the tank lights are also off all night long, so the fish actually only get a nap in the middle of the day, not 2x 3-4 hour naps... She should only have the light off for 1-3 hours, not half the day, according to what Diana said she practices doing. Amber Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > > > While that sounds scientifically correct, I'm not so sure it's good > for the > psyche of the fish... or the plants, if they have a psyche. It would be > comparable to a human taking two 3-4 hour naps a day instead of getting a > solid 6-8 hours of sleep. While this can be and is done by some for short > time periods... like with a newborn baby, it's very taxing on the physical > and emotional well being of the person. I'm also wondering if it wouldn't > raise the metabolism of the fish to where they are living two days for > every > day they are actually alive, thus cutting their lifespan in half. I guess > someone would have to experiment with this over the course of 10 years to > see what happens to the fish long term. > > An alternative, maybe, if the normal room lights are still left on > while the > tank lights are turned off for a few hours, at least that would mimic an > overcast day so the fish would still know it's day time in between the > bright sunny parts of the day but if the room is really dark and the > lights > are turned off, they would think it's night time and then be reawakened > after only a few hours sleep which might not be good for their long term > health. > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right > side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) > > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On > Behalf Of Amber Berglund > Sent: Friday, October 16, 2009 10:27 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] OOPS re green water > > Actually according to Diana walstad on her forums where I sometimes can be > found posting (though not recently), she told me that this "siesta" > of lighting is actually beneficial for plants as it gives time for the > CO2 to build back up while the lighting is off, and then the plants can > start using it again when you turn the lights back on. BUT at the same > time > she's also talking about natural planted tanks that do not use CO2 > injection, and require CO2 output from the critters in the tank. > > Amber > > Lainey Alexander wrote: > > > > > > Would it be OK if I run the main lighting for five hours then take a > > couple hour break with no light and then run them again for three or > > so? IOW I like to see the tank AM and PM, so can I turn the lights off > > in the afternoon and then back on for the evening? Or will this send > > the plants and fish into a tailspin? > > > > Lainey > > http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com <http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com> > > <http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com > <http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com>> > > > > On Oct 16, 2009, at 10:54 PM, Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > > > > > Right, a 15W screw in CFL is equal to around 65W of incandescent > > > lighting (nearly 5X's as much light out of a 15W CFL compared to > > > incandescent... but those are usually cool white bulbs in the > > > 10,000K range, so they are not the same thing that you are looking > > > at for your aquarium although I have used the tubular shaped ones > > > for use in a 10G tank fixture that I have that uses the 7.5W > > > incandescent screw in bulbs. Two of those screw in CFL's made that > > > tank visible from Mars so I put a burned out incandescent in one > > > screw in receptacle and only one of the CFL's in the other screw in > > > receptacle and that made it brightly lit but no longer an attraction > > > for UFO's that might be flying by. ;-) > > > > > > Yes, a single or even a few LED's will not affect things at all > > > except for giving you some moon-lighting effects. You can run them > > > as long as you like or even have room lighting on when the tank > > > lights are not on. > > > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>> > > > (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the > > > right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by > > > Year, > > > Month) > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On > > > Behalf Of Lainey Alexander > > > Sent: Friday, October 16, 2009 8:58 PM > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] OOPS re green water > > > > > > OK, this is very helpful. I did not realize that these were compacts. > > > I use CFLs for my finches, but they are screw in types - 15 watts > > > gives you > > > 65 or something. So I am getting a ton of light out of these > > > aquarium tubes. > > > I have cut back to 10.5 hours per day so far, will cut back further > > > now. > > > > > > BTW I got the fixture with the blue LED night lights - is it OK to > > > use them? > > > I enjoy them as I am nocturnal. > > > > > > Thank you very much! > > > > > > Lainey > > > http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com > <http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com> > > > <http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com > <http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com>> > > > > > > On Oct 16, 2009, at 9:53 PM, Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > > > > > > > Now you're talking!!! > > > > > > > > http://www.amazon.com/Coralife-Energy-Savers-6700K-Strait/dp/ > <http://www.amazon.com/Coralife-Energy-Savers-6700K-Strait/dp/> > > <http://www.amazon.com/Coralife-Energy-Savers-6700K-Strait/dp/ > <http://www.amazon.com/Coralife-Energy-Savers-6700K-Strait/dp/>> > > > > B002DVYC30 > > > > > > > > You do have CFL's, sometimes called Power Compact as in the above > > > ad. > > > > CFL stands for Compact Fluorescent Lighting. > > > > > > > > This means each of your 65 watt CFL's are actually equal to 130 > > > to 180 > > > > watts of standard fluorescent lighting. > > > > > > > > To put this in perspective, with your 37G tank, in the *old* days > > > when > > > > WPG (watts per gallon) was the baseline, 1WPG worked for low light > > > > plants, 2-3WPG for medium light plants and 4-5WPG for high light > > > > plants. > > > > Your two > > > > 65W CFL's would be equal to 260 to 360 Watts of *old* fluorescent > > > > lighting, which means you comparably have anywhere from 7WPG to > > > nearly > > > > 10WPG of lighting on your tank. YOU DEFINITELY DO NOT NEED 12 > > > hours a > > > > day of lighting. Slowly start cutting back from your current 12 > > > hours > > > > down to 11 hours for a few days, then 10 hours, then 9 hours, then > > > > 8 hours, etc., until you see your plants still doing well but NOT > > > > the algae. You may be able to get by with as little as 6-7 hours > > > > of lighting... and with that much light, having some (or a lot > > > > after a short time) floating Anacharis or Hornwort will also help > > > > it grow > > > fast > > > > and block out some of the lighting to the algae. > > > > > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>> > > > > (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the > > > > right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by > > > > Year, > > > > Month) > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On > > > > Behalf Of Lainey Alexander > > > > Sent: Friday, October 16, 2009 6:20 PM > > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] OOPS re green water > > > > > > > > All I can see is "coralife 65 watt 6700k" - each bulb has two > > > > tubes, and they don't quite make a U turn but they are connected > > > > by a small bridge that seems to be part of the bulb itself. Does > > > > this tell us anything? > > > > > > > > Lainey > > > > http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com > <http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com> > > <http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com > <http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com>> > > > > > > > > On Oct 16, 2009, at 2:37 PM, Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > > > > > > > > > Long straight tubes with pins on each end? Many other bulbs also > > > > have > > > > > pins but CFL's only have them on one end and the tube usually > > > > makes a > > > > > U- turn and comes back to the same fitting. They should have a > > > brand > > > > > and item number on them... or something else... but they are > > > > probably > > > > > just standard fluorescent tubes. You would have to turn the > > > fixture > > > > > over and look at the bulbs... > > > > > maybe even removing one to look for the writing on the glass on > > > one > > > > > end of the tube. It might/should even have a T-__ code which is > > > > > a standard coding now for fluorescent tubes. > > > > > > > > > > You need to know this information as, depending on the > > > > > brand/type/ etc., you might have to replace these bulbs every > > > > > six months or > > > so. > > > > > > > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > > > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>> > (Links to any articles > > > > > referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, > > > > alphabetically > > > > > under Labels and also under Archives by Year, > > > > > Month) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On Behalf Of Lainey Alexander > > > > > Sent: Friday, October 16, 2009 10:17 AM > > > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] OOPS re green water > > > > > > > > > > Lenny - > > > > > > > > > > As far as I know, I have regular standard fluorescents, they > > > are the > > > > > ones with the pins - 65 watts, two bulbs, 6700k each. > > > > > > > > > > Lainey > > > > > http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com > <http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com> > > <http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com > <http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com>> > > > > > > > > > > On Oct 16, 2009, at 1:16 AM, Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > Lets see... my first thoughts would be... > > > > > > > > > > > > http://images.veer.com/IMG/PILL/MAI/MAI0002683_P.JPG > <http://images.veer.com/IMG/PILL/MAI/MAI0002683_P.JPG> > > <http://images.veer.com/IMG/PILL/MAI/MAI0002683_P.JPG > <http://images.veer.com/IMG/PILL/MAI/MAI0002683_P.JPG>> > > > > > > > > > > > > (maybe without the Parrot as an eye witness... lol... ;-)) > > > > > > > > > > > > It's good to hear you have a 30" x 12" footprint but you need > > > > > > to > > > > > quit > > > > > > using the "depth" term for the front to back measurement, > > > although > > > > > > that is a common term to use for measuring other physical > > > > items, for > > > > > > aquariums, because of the water, "depth" can easily be > > > > > misconstrued to > > > > > > be the depth of the water. This is why the standard for > > > > > > aquarium measurement is L x W x H (Length by Width by Height). > > > > > > I know the "width" part can be confusing also since that would > > > > > > be the long > > > > > sides > > > > > > of most aquarium where we commonly use the long sides as the > > > > length > > > > > > and the front to back measurement as the width. > > > > > > Don't ask me who invented this standard. LOL > > > > > > > > > > > > At least with the 30" x 12" footprint and only 23" tall and > > > > > > your > > > > > tank > > > > > > is still based on the same footprint as a 20G but at least > > > it's a > > > > > 20G > > > > > > LONG footprint instead of a regular 20G footprint. It's also > > > > > > not nearly as tall as what you originally said was a 30" tall > > > tank so > > > > > this > > > > > > makes your lighting more practical... BUT... you still DO NOT > > > > > need 5" > > > > > > to 7" of gravel. > > > > > > Still > > > > > > cut this back to 2" to 3". > > > > > > > > > > > > I do not recall if you ever listed details on your lighting > > > other > > > > > than > > > > > > saying you had two 65W fluorescent bulbs. Are they standard > > > > > > fluorescent bulbs... long single tubes with two pins on each > > > end? > > > > > Look > > > > > > on the bulbs for any item numbers, brand names, etc. and let > > > > > > us > > > > > know. > > > > > > From what I can see on the net, it looks like you could either > > > > have > > > > > > 65W CFL's instead of standard fluorescent bulbs but they do > > > > > > also > > > > > have > > > > > > a T-10 65W Fluorescent tube. While they are both called 65W > > > > (watt), > > > > > > the CFL's would put out 2-3 times more light (lumens) than > > > > standard > > > > > > fluorescent tubes. > > > > > > > > > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > > > > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>> > (Links to any articles > > > > > > referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, > > > > > alphabetically > > > > > > under Labels and also under Archives by Year, > > > > > > Month) > > > > > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > > > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On Behalf Of Lainey > > > Alexander > > > > > > Sent: Thursday, October 15, 2009 8:38 PM > > > > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > Subject: [AquaticLife] OOPS re green water > > > > > > > > > > > > I just realized that I completely goofed on these measurements > > > > > > (below), which is why everyone has been so adamant about my > > > crazy > > > > > tank > > > > > > shape! > > > > > > > > > > > > The height is 23, the WIDTH is 30 and the depth is 12. > > > > > > > > > > > > I'm so sorry to make everyone talk about something that was > > > > > incorrect > > > > > > this whole time. But now, can you all let me know if this is a > > > > much > > > > > > more reasonable depth please? Does this change my bioload > > > > issues at > > > > > > all? > > > > > > Does it > > > > > > change the appropriateness of my lights? > > > > > > > > > > > > In five weeks several of my plants are near the top of the > > > water, > > > > > so I > > > > > > think they must be fairly happy with the light. > > > > > > > > > > > > My apologies for being careless. > > > > > > > > > > > > Lainey > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Tank measurements are 30 high, 23 wide and 12 deep. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Fluorescent lights, 2 @65 watts and 6700k - on 12 and off 12 > > > > > > which is > > > > > > > what I have been told my plants require... > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I used Activ-Flora gravel, and this contains non-nitrogen > > > > > fertilizer > > > > > > > plus "instant-cycling" bacteria > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Not dosing with any chemicals or ferts > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 43922	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 10/16/2009
Subject: Re: CO2 versus Excel

Excel is also not the same, but it's similar and works about the same with plants, but from what I've read on reviews actual CO2 injection works better if you have it set up right, but at the same time I don't use CO2 injection myself. Though I have often contemplated the purchase for in the future, there are some nice purple plants I've had my eye on ;) LOL. Also I noticed that Excel has copper in it, I would imagine that if you don't dose properly you could accidentally overdose on the copper at some point and kill any snails/invertebrates in the tank? Just a guess, but sounds possible to me, even if Seachem says it's safe ;) Amber Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > > > I think CO2 injection is MUCH cheaper in the long run. You would have to > figure out how long a tank of CO2 is lasting you and divide the number of > days by the price of the CO2 tank to figure out your cost per day. Then > figure out the same with the recommended dose of Excel for your sized tank > for the cost per day for Excel. CO2 is pretty cheap so the cost per day > should be MUCH cheaper for the CO2. Of course, you'll have to factor > in the > initial cost of the rest of the system and divide it by the number of days > of the expected lifespan of the system to factor that cost as well. > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right > side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) > > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On > Behalf Of Lainey Alexander > Sent: Friday, October 16, 2009 10:42 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Subject: [AquaticLife] CO2 versus Excel > > Me again - > > So did I totally waste my money on CO2 injection and I could have just > used > Seachem's Excel for carbon for the plants? Please tell me no! > > Thanks, > > Lainey > http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com <http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com> > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 43923	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 10/16/2009
Subject: Re: OOPS re green water

While I certainly respect Diana Walstad's opinions, I'm just wondering if she's done any long term tracking of how this affects the fish. It might be fine for the plants but I *try* to mimic how the Big Fish Keeper in the sky does things. He's been doing this a lot longer than any of us and He decided our current lighting cycle of dawn (1-2 hrs), full daytime (8-10 hrs), dusk(1-2 hours) and nighttime... so I try to do the same thing with my tanks... fish and plants. Of course, up there by you, He decided on six months of daytime and six months of nighttime... I know... not all of Alaska suffers from this, only the northern most section and we all know that you live in the tropical area of South Alaska... almost like Miami around there.. right? Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Amber Berglund Sent: Friday, October 16, 2009 11:45 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] OOPS re green water Umm Lenny the tank would be off during the day, so unless the room has no windows or REALLY thick curtains there should at least be some ambient room lighting to light up the tank, plus she has LED's that she could leave running too. Not to mention that the tank lights are also off all night long, so the fish actually only get a nap in the middle of the day, not 2x 3-4 hour naps... She should only have the light off for 1-3 hours, not half the day, according to what Diana said she practices doing. Amber Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > > > While that sounds scientifically correct, I'm not so sure it's good > for the > psyche of the fish... or the plants, if they have a psyche. It would be > comparable to a human taking two 3-4 hour naps a day instead of getting a > solid 6-8 hours of sleep. While this can be and is done by some for short > time periods... like with a newborn baby, it's very taxing on the physical > and emotional well being of the person. I'm also wondering if it wouldn't > raise the metabolism of the fish to where they are living two days for > every > day they are actually alive, thus cutting their lifespan in half. I guess > someone would have to experiment with this over the course of 10 years to > see what happens to the fish long term. > > An alternative, maybe, if the normal room lights are still left on > while the > tank lights are turned off for a few hours, at least that would mimic an > overcast day so the fish would still know it's day time in between the > bright sunny parts of the day but if the room is really dark and the > lights > are turned off, they would think it's night time and then be reawakened > after only a few hours sleep which might not be good for their long term > health. > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right > side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) > > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On > Behalf Of Amber Berglund > Sent: Friday, October 16, 2009 10:27 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] OOPS re green water > > Actually according to Diana walstad on her forums where I sometimes can be > found posting (though not recently), she told me that this "siesta" > of lighting is actually beneficial for plants as it gives time for the > CO2 to build back up while the lighting is off, and then the plants can > start using it again when you turn the lights back on. BUT at the same > time > she's also talking about natural planted tanks that do not use CO2 > injection, and require CO2 output from the critters in the tank. > > Amber > > Lainey Alexander wrote: > > > > > > Would it be OK if I run the main lighting for five hours then take a > > couple hour break with no light and then run them again for three or > > so? IOW I like to see the tank AM and PM, so can I turn the lights off > > in the afternoon and then back on for the evening? Or will this send > > the plants and fish into a tailspin? > > > > Lainey > > http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com <http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com> > > <http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com > <http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com>>

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 43924	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 10/16/2009
Subject: Re: OOPS re green water

Hah, wish it was like miami ;) I never said I use the siesta method myself, but Diana does recommend it, especially if people are not seeing much growth in their plants (from lack of CO2). Amber Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > > > While I certainly respect Diana Walstad's opinions, I'm just wondering if > she's done any long term tracking of how this affects the fish. It > might be > fine for the plants but I *try* to mimic how the Big Fish Keeper in > the sky > does things. He's been doing this a lot longer than any of us and He > decided our current lighting cycle of dawn (1-2 hrs), full daytime (8-10 > hrs), dusk(1-2 hours) and nighttime... so I try to do the same thing > with my > tanks... fish and plants. > > Of course, up there by you, He decided on six months of daytime and six > months of nighttime... I know... not all of Alaska suffers from this, only > the northern most section and we all know that you live in the > tropical area > of South Alaska... almost like Miami around there.. right? > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right > side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On > Behalf Of Amber Berglund > Sent: Friday, October 16, 2009 11:45 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] OOPS re green water > > Umm Lenny the tank would be off during the day, so unless the room has no > windows or REALLY thick curtains there should at least be some ambient > room > lighting to light up the tank, plus she has LED's that she could leave > running too. Not to mention that the tank lights are also off all night > long, so the fish actually only get a nap in the middle of the day, not 2x > 3-4 hour naps... > She should only have the light off for 1-3 hours, not half the day, > according to what Diana said she practices doing. > > Amber > > Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > > > > > > While that sounds scientifically correct, I'm not so sure it's good > > for the > > psyche of the fish... or the plants, if they have a psyche. It would be > > comparable to a human taking two 3-4 hour naps a day instead of > getting a > > solid 6-8 hours of sleep. While this can be and is done by some for > short > > time periods... like with a newborn baby, it's very taxing on the > physical > > and emotional well being of the person. I'm also wondering if it > wouldn't > > raise the metabolism of the fish to where they are living two days for > > every > > day they are actually alive, thus cutting their lifespan in half. I > guess > > someone would have to experiment with this over the course of 10 > years to > > see what happens to the fish long term. > > > > An alternative, maybe, if the normal room lights are still left on > > while the > > tank lights are turned off for a few hours, at least that would mimic an > > overcast day so the fish would still know it's day time in between the > > bright sunny parts of the day but if the room is really dark and the > > lights > > are turned off, they would think it's night time and then be reawakened > > after only a few hours sleep which might not be good for their long term > > health. > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>> > > (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right > > side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, > Month) > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On > > Behalf Of Amber Berglund > > Sent: Friday, October 16, 2009 10:27 PM > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] OOPS re green water > > > > Actually according to Diana walstad on her forums where I sometimes > can be > > found posting (though not recently), she told me that this "siesta" > > of lighting is actually beneficial for plants as it gives time for the > > CO2 to build back up while the lighting is off, and then the plants can > > start using it again when you turn the lights back on. BUT at the same > > time > > she's also talking about natural planted tanks that do not use CO2 > > injection, and require CO2 output from the critters in the tank. > > > > Amber > > > > Lainey Alexander wrote: > > > > > > > > > Would it be OK if I run the main lighting for five hours then take a > > > couple hour break with no light and then run them again for three or > > > so? IOW I like to see the tank AM and PM, so can I turn the lights off > > > in the afternoon and then back on for the evening? Or will this send > > > the plants and fish into a tailspin? > > > > > > Lainey > > > http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com > <http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com> > <http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com <http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com>> > > > <http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com > <http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com> > > <http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com > <http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com>>> > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 43925	From: Donna Ransome	Date: 10/17/2009
Subject: Re: The T-5 Business Len/Amber?

The bulbs are Coralife and cost around $34 for a replacement (about once a year, burned out or not). Sounds like I have the same as Lainey. Square pin. _____ From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of bill 1433 Sent: Friday, October 16, 2009 9:47 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] The T-5 Business Len/Amber? Hi Donna, Thanks for your return but I want to ask, can you be more specific about Brand, Manufacture, cost? Any help is welcome. Bill --- On Fri, 10/16/09, Donna Ransome <djransome@optonline <mailto:djransome%40optonline.net> .net> wrote: > From: Donna Ransome <djransome@optonline <mailto:djransome%40optonline.net> .net> > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] The T-5 Business Len/Amber? > To: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com > Date: Friday, October 16, 2009, 8:01 PM > I use compact fluorescent tubes, 6700 > daylight. I avoid the actinic, I had > one and removed it because I got too much algae. Once > you get into the > compact fluorescents and away from “regular” you > don’t have all the colors > to worry about, LOL. > > > > They make retrofit kits, but I just bought a new > fixture. Fans all built > in, etc. My 36” tank holds a single twin > tube. My 72” tank has 2 fixtures, > each holding two twin tubes. > > > > _____ > > From: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com > [mailto:AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com] > On > Behalf Of bill 1433 > Sent: Friday, October 16, 2009 6:41 PM > To: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] The T-5 Business Len/Amber? > > > > > > Yes Mam! > > We are gettin' there. It would seem ----- before I do > anything crazy---- > get the fixture open apart or both and find out if I have a > ballast > limit on the light I have now. Why? I think if I buy a tube > with too > high of a wattage requirement two things would happen and > either good! > > One, the new tube will not work at all or Two, it will work > but pull too > much wattage and then burn up. > > Right??????????? > > Bill > > --- On Fri, 10/16/09, Amber Berglund <arberglund@gmail. > <mailto:arberglund%40gmail.com> com> wrote: > > > From: Amber Berglund <arberglund@gmail. > <mailto:arberglund%40gmail.com> > com> > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] The T-5 Business > Len/Amber? > > To: AquaticLife@ > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > yahoogroups.com > > Date: Friday, October 16, 2009, 4:51 PM > > Okay some regular fluorescent > > fixtures will accept normal bulbs up to > > the VHO t-5's or better, it's just a matter of > checking the > > specs on > > each fixture, but most now days are interchangeable, > but > > I'm not sure > > fluorescent fixtures have a wattage limit like CFL > ballasts > > do. CFL's > > are not interchangeable with regular fluorescent bulbs > or > > VHO/HO bulbs, > > you can only use CFL bulbs on CFL fixtures and only > UPTO > > the wattage > > that the ballast can run, for instance I have a retro > fit > > kit (you buy > > it and put it all together) on my 125 gallon that has > 4 x > > 65 watt CFL > > bulbs and 2 sets of lights run off of 1 ballast, so > there > > are 2 ballasts > > under the tank that can run at max 2 x 65 watt bulbs, > the > > next step up > > is 96 watts I think. There are also square pin and > straight > > pin CFL > > bulbs and fixtures do not interchange on those, so > read > > close when/if > > you go to buy new bulbs for a CFL fixture and make > sure you > > get the > > right pin setting. > > > > Let me know if this helps clear things up ;) > > > > Amber > > > > bill 1433 wrote: > > > > > > > > > I'm sorry, I suppose I should have put all of > this > > another way. > > > Think of it as what goes to what (watt). > <g> > > > > > > What I am trying to say is that I was of the > opinion > > that if you > > > wanted to move up to a T-5 or better tube then > you had > > better have a > > > fixture for it but from reading on, it seems that > you > > CAN use a > > > different tube provided that, first the fixture > > excepts the pin > > > alignment of that tube and second that the tube > or > > tubes does not > > > exceed the given wattage of the ballast of the > fixture > > itself. Does > > > any of this makes sense or am I all messed up > again? > > Can somebody turn > > > on a light, please? > > > > > > Bill > > > > > > > > > > > > ------------------------------------ > > > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when > > replying, Thank You. > > > ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> > > ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> > > PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that > is > > NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC > of > > the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> > i.e. "new > > subject (was re: old subject)" <- > > > <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. > > , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. > > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. > > > > If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead > of > > unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by > > clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the home > page. > > > > Or e-mail aquaticlife- > <mailto:aquaticlife-digest%40yahoogroups.com> > digest@yahoogroups. <mailto:digest%40yahoogroups.com> com > > to receive the digest, which includes up to 25 posts > at a > > time in a single email > > > > Or email aquaticlife- > <mailto:aquaticlife-nomail%40yahoogroups.com> > nomail@yahoogroups. <mailto:nomail%40yahoogroups.com> com > > for the No E-Mail option where you will still be able > to > > read messages on the group and post replies. > > > > Or email aquaticlife- > <mailto:aquaticlife-normal%40yahoogroups.com> > normal@yahoogroups. <mailto:normal%40yahoogroups.com> com > > to receive individual e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > mailto:AquaticLife- > <mailto:AquaticLife-fullfeatured%40yahoogroups.com> > fullfeatured@ <mailto:fullfeatured%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com > > > > > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > ------------------------------------ > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when > replying, Thank You. > ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> > ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> > PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is > NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of > the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new > subject (was re: old subject)" <- > <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. > , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. > > If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of > unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by > clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the home page. > > Or e-mail aquaticlife- <mailto:aquaticlife-digest%40yahoogroups.com> digest@yahoogroups.com > to receive the digest, which includes up to 25 posts at a > time in a single email > > Or email aquaticlife- <mailto:aquaticlife-nomail%40yahoogroups.com> nomail@yahoogroups.com > for the No E-Mail option where you will still be able to > read messages on the group and post replies. > > Or email aquaticlife- <mailto:aquaticlife-normal%40yahoogroups.com> normal@yahoogroups.com > to receive individual e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links > > > mailto:AquaticLife- <mailto:AquaticLife-fullfeatured%40yahoogroups.com> fullfeatured@yahoogroups.com > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 43926	From: Donna Ransome	Date: 10/17/2009
Subject: Re: OOPS re green water

That’s the fixture I have too on all tanks, but my fixtures are longer. _____ From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Amber Berglund Sent: Friday, October 16, 2009 9:50 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] OOPS re green water If you ever want to increase your lighting even more with CFL bulbs you can find better bulbs with a better light spectrum. I actually have the same bulbs in my light fixture, I use the straight pin on the fixture on my 55 gallon and the 125 gallon has square pin lights. I've found that there's a better selection for straight pin bulbs on marinedepot.com than square pin (and the prices are usually better). Oh and while I'm talking about marinedepot.com they are running a sale on a light fixture that has CFL bulbs and LED night lighting all in one. They only go from 24-36 inches though, but they are all on sale. http://www.marinede <http://www.marinedepot.com/24_inch_2x65_Watt_Current_USA_PowerCompact_Dual_ Satellite_Fixture_24_Inch_Power_Compact_Light_Fixtures-Current_USA-CU01011-F ILTFIPCTF-CU01013-vi.html> pot.com/24_inch_2x65_Watt_Current_USA_PowerCompact_Dual_Satellite_Fixture_24 _Inch_Power_Compact_Light_Fixtures-Current_USA-CU01011-FILTFIPCTF-CU01013-vi .html Amber Lainey Alexander wrote: > > > Thanks, Amber - they are tubes that reach the length of the tank. > > Lainey > http://www.grasslan <http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com> dsgouldians.com <http://www.grasslan <http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com> dsgouldians.com> > > On Oct 16, 2009, at 9:35 PM, Amber Berglund wrote: > > > those are CFL bulbs, so you have more than enough lighting for your 37 > > gallon if you have 1 bulb on each side of the tank. > > > > Amber > > > > Lainey Alexander wrote: > > > > > > > > > All I can see is "coralife 65 watt 6700k" - each bulb has two tubes, > > > and they don't quite make a U turn but they are connected by a small > > > bridge that seems to be part of the bulb itself. Does this tell us > > > anything? > > > > > > Lainey > > > http://www.grasslan <http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com> dsgouldians.com > <http://www.grasslan <http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com> dsgouldians.com> <http:// > > www.grasslandsgouldians.com> > > > > > > On Oct 16, 2009, at 2:37 PM, Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > > > > > > > Long straight tubes with pins on each end? Many other bulbs also > > > > have pins > > > > but CFL's only have them on one end and the tube usually makes > > a U- > > > > turn and > > > > comes back to the same fitting. They should have a brand and item > > > > number on > > > > them... or something else... but they are probably just standard > > > > fluorescent > > > > tubes. You would have to turn the fixture over and look at the > > > > bulbs... > > > > maybe even removing one to look for the writing on the glass on > > one > > > > end of > > > > the tube. It might/should even have a T-__ code which is a > > standard > > > > coding > > > > now for fluorescent tubes. > > > > > > > > You need to know this information as, depending on the brand/type/ > > > > etc., you > > > > might have to replace these bulbs every six months or so. > > > > > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> blogspot.com> > > > <http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> blogspot.com>> > > > > (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the > > > > right > > > > side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, > > > > Month) > > > > > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > > From: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > [mailto:AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On > > > > Behalf Of Lainey Alexander > > > > Sent: Friday, October 16, 2009 10:17 AM > > > > To: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife% > > 40yahoogroups.com> > > > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] OOPS re green water > > > > > > > > Lenny - > > > > > > > > As far as I know, I have regular standard fluorescents, they are > > > > the ones > > > > with the pins - 65 watts, two bulbs, 6700k each. > > > > > > > > Lainey > > > > http://www.grasslan <http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com> dsgouldians.com > <http://www.grasslan <http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com> dsgouldians.com> <http:// > > www.grasslandsgouldians.com> > > > > > > > > On Oct 16, 2009, at 1:16 AM, Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > > > > > > > > > Lets see... my first thoughts would be... > > > > > > > > > > http://images. <http://images.veer.com/IMG/PILL/MAI/MAI0002683_P.JPG> veer.com/IMG/PILL/MAI/MAI0002683_P.JPG > <http://images. <http://images.veer.com/IMG/PILL/MAI/MAI0002683_P.JPG> veer.com/IMG/PILL/MAI/MAI0002683_P.JPG> > > > <http://images. <http://images.veer.com/IMG/PILL/MAI/MAI0002683_P.JPG> veer.com/IMG/PILL/MAI/MAI0002683_P.JPG > <http://images. <http://images.veer.com/IMG/PILL/MAI/MAI0002683_P.JPG> veer.com/IMG/PILL/MAI/MAI0002683_P.JPG>> > > > > > > > > > > (maybe without the Parrot as an eye witness... lol... ;-)) > > > > > > > > > > It's good to hear you have a 30" x 12" footprint but you need to > > > > quit > > > > > using the "depth" term for the front to back measurement, > > although > > > > > that is a common term to use for measuring other physical > > items, for > > > > > aquariums, because of the water, "depth" can easily be > > > > misconstrued to > > > > > be the depth of the water. This is why the standard for aquarium > > > > > measurement is L x W x H (Length by Width by Height). I know the > > > > > "width" part can be confusing also since that would be the long > > > > sides > > > > > of most aquarium where we commonly use the long sides as the > > length > > > > > and the front to back measurement as the width. > > > > > Don't ask me who invented this standard. LOL > > > > > > > > > > At least with the 30" x 12" footprint and only 23" tall and your > > > > tank > > > > > is still based on the same footprint as a 20G but at least > > it's a > > > > 20G > > > > > LONG footprint instead of a regular 20G footprint. It's also not > > > > > nearly as tall as what you originally said was a 30" tall > > tank so > > > > this > > > > > makes your lighting more practical... BUT... you still DO NOT > > > > need 5" > > > > > to 7" of gravel. > > > > > Still > > > > > cut this back to 2" to 3". > > > > > > > > > > I do not recall if you ever listed details on your lighting > > other > > > > than > > > > > saying you had two 65W fluorescent bulbs. Are they standard > > > > > fluorescent bulbs... long single tubes with two pins on each > > end? > > > > Look > > > > > on the bulbs for any item numbers, brand names, etc. and let us > > > > know. > > > > > From what I can see on the net, it looks like you could > > either have > > > > > 65W CFL's instead of standard fluorescent bulbs but they do also > > > > have > > > > > a T-10 65W Fluorescent tube. While they are both called 65W > > (watt), > > > > > the CFL's would put out 2-3 times more light (lumens) than > > standard > > > > > fluorescent tubes. > > > > > > > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > > > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> blogspot.com> > > > <http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> blogspot.com>> > (Links to any articles > > > > > referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, > > > > alphabetically > > > > > under Labels and also under Archives by Year, > > > > > Month) > > > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > > > From: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > [mailto:AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On Behalf Of Lainey > > Alexander > > > > > Sent: Thursday, October 15, 2009 8:38 PM > > > > > To: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife% > > 40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > Subject: [AquaticLife] OOPS re green water > > > > > > > > > > I just realized that I completely goofed on these measurements > > > > > (below), which is why everyone has been so adamant about my > > crazy > > > > tank > > > > > shape! > > > > > > > > > > The height is 23, the WIDTH is 30 and the depth is 12. > > > > > > > > > > I'm so sorry to make everyone talk about something that was > > > > incorrect > > > > > this whole time. But now, can you all let me know if this is > > a much > > > > > more reasonable depth please? Does this change my bioload > > issues at > > > > > all? > > > > > Does it > > > > > change the appropriateness of my lights? > > > > > > > > > > In five weeks several of my plants are near the top of the > > water, > > > > so I > > > > > think they must be fairly happy with the light. > > > > > > > > > > My apologies for being careless. > > > > > > > > > > Lainey > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Tank measurements are 30 high, 23 wide and 12 deep. > > > > > > > > > > > > Fluorescent lights, 2 @65 watts and 6700k - on 12 and off 12 > > > > > which is > > > > > > what I have been told my plants require... > > > > > > > > > > > > I used Activ-Flora gravel, and this contains non-nitrogen > > > > fertilizer > > > > > > plus "instant-cycling" bacteria > > > > > > > > > > > > Not dosing with any chemicals or ferts > > > > > > > > > > > > *** > > > > > > > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 43927	From: Donna Ransome	Date: 10/17/2009
Subject: Re: OOPS re green water

I agree. Or remove one bulb. _____ From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Lenny V. aka GoldLenny Sent: Friday, October 16, 2009 9:53 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] OOPS re green water Now you're talking!!! http://www.amazon. <http://www.amazon.com/Coralife-Energy-Savers-6700K-Strait/dp/B002DVYC30> com/Coralife-Energy-Savers-6700K-Strait/dp/B002DVYC30 You do have CFL's, sometimes called Power Compact as in the above ad. CFL stands for Compact Fluorescent Lighting. This means each of your 65 watt CFL's are actually equal to 130 to 180 watts of standard fluorescent lighting. To put this in perspective, with your 37G tank, in the *old* days when WPG (watts per gallon) was the baseline, 1WPG worked for low light plants, 2-3WPG for medium light plants and 4-5WPG for high light plants. Your two 65W CFL's would be equal to 260 to 360 Watts of *old* fluorescent lighting, which means you comparably have anywhere from 7WPG to nearly 10WPG of lighting on your tank. YOU DEFINITELY DO NOT NEED 12 hours a day of lighting. Slowly start cutting back from your current 12 hours down to 11 hours for a few days, then 10 hours, then 9 hours, then 8 hours, etc., until you see your plants still doing well but NOT the algae. You may be able to get by with as little as 6-7 hours of lighting... and with that much light, having some (or a lot after a short time) floating Anacharis or Hornwort will also help it grow fast and block out some of the lighting to the algae. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Lainey Alexander Sent: Friday, October 16, 2009 6:20 PM To: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] OOPS re green water All I can see is "coralife 65 watt 6700k" - each bulb has two tubes, and they don't quite make a U turn but they are connected by a small bridge that seems to be part of the bulb itself. Does this tell us anything? Lainey http://www.grasslan <http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com> dsgouldians.com On Oct 16, 2009, at 2:37 PM, Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > Long straight tubes with pins on each end? Many other bulbs also have > pins but CFL's only have them on one end and the tube usually makes a > U- turn and comes back to the same fitting. They should have a brand > and item number on them... or something else... but they are probably > just standard fluorescent tubes. You would have to turn the fixture > over and look at the bulbs... > maybe even removing one to look for the writing on the glass on one > end of the tube. It might/should even have a T-__ code which is a > standard coding now for fluorescent tubes. > > You need to know this information as, depending on the brand/type/ > etc., you might have to replace these bulbs every six months or so. > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> blogspot.com (Links to any articles > referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically > under Labels and also under Archives by Year, > Month) > > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com > [mailto:AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Lainey Alexander > Sent: Friday, October 16, 2009 10:17 AM > To: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] OOPS re green water > > Lenny - > > As far as I know, I have regular standard fluorescents, they are the > ones with the pins - 65 watts, two bulbs, 6700k each. > > Lainey > http://www.grasslan <http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com> dsgouldians.com > > On Oct 16, 2009, at 1:16 AM, Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > > > Lets see... my first thoughts would be... > > > > http://images. <http://images.veer.com/IMG/PILL/MAI/MAI0002683_P.JPG> veer.com/IMG/PILL/MAI/MAI0002683_P.JPG > > > > (maybe without the Parrot as an eye witness... lol... ;-)) > > > > It's good to hear you have a 30" x 12" footprint but you need to > quit > > using the "depth" term for the front to back measurement, although > > that is a common term to use for measuring other physical items, for > > aquariums, because of the water, "depth" can easily be > misconstrued to > > be the depth of the water. This is why the standard for aquarium > > measurement is L x W x H (Length by Width by Height). I know the > > "width" part can be confusing also since that would be the long > sides > > of most aquarium where we commonly use the long sides as the length > > and the front to back measurement as the width. > > Don't ask me who invented this standard. LOL > > > > At least with the 30" x 12" footprint and only 23" tall and your > tank > > is still based on the same footprint as a 20G but at least it's a > 20G > > LONG footprint instead of a regular 20G footprint. It's also not > > nearly as tall as what you originally said was a 30" tall tank so > this > > makes your lighting more practical... BUT... you still DO NOT > need 5" > > to 7" of gravel. > > Still > > cut this back to 2" to 3". > > > > I do not recall if you ever listed details on your lighting other > than > > saying you had two 65W fluorescent bulbs. Are they standard > > fluorescent bulbs... long single tubes with two pins on each end? > Look > > on the bulbs for any item numbers, brand names, etc. and let us > know. > > From what I can see on the net, it looks like you could either have > > 65W CFL's instead of standard fluorescent bulbs but they do also > have > > a T-10 65W Fluorescent tube. While they are both called 65W (watt), > > the CFL's would put out 2-3 times more light (lumens) than standard > > fluorescent tubes. > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> blogspot.com (Links to any articles > > referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, > alphabetically > > under Labels and also under Archives by Year, > > Month) > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com > > [mailto:AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Lainey Alexander > > Sent: Thursday, October 15, 2009 8:38 PM > > To: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com > > Subject: [AquaticLife] OOPS re green water > > > > I just realized that I completely goofed on these measurements > > (below), which is why everyone has been so adamant about my crazy > tank > > shape! > > > > The height is 23, the WIDTH is 30 and the depth is 12. > > > > I'm so sorry to make everyone talk about something that was > incorrect > > this whole time. But now, can you all let me know if this is a much > > more reasonable depth please? Does this change my bioload issues at > > all? > > Does it > > change the appropriateness of my lights? > > > > In five weeks several of my plants are near the top of the water, > so I > > think they must be fairly happy with the light. > > > > My apologies for being careless. > > > > Lainey > > > > > > > > Tank measurements are 30 high, 23 wide and 12 deep. > > > > > > Fluorescent lights, 2 @65 watts and 6700k - on 12 and off 12 > > which is > > > what I have been told my plants require... > > > > > > I used Activ-Flora gravel, and this contains non-nitrogen > fertilizer > > > plus "instant-cycling" bacteria > > > > > > Not dosing with any chemicals or ferts [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 43928	From: Donna Ransome	Date: 10/17/2009
Subject: Re: OOPS re green water

I tried that for a while (like a year) to increase CO2 and found it to be problematical. When I went to one photoperiod things were better. Maybe mornings just for an hour while you are there before work. Turn on and off manually. _____ From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Amber Berglund Sent: Friday, October 16, 2009 11:27 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] OOPS re green water Actually according to Diana walstad on her forums where I sometimes can be found posting (though not recently), she told me that this "siesta" of lighting is actually beneficial for plants as it gives time for the CO2 to build back up while the lighting is off, and then the plants can start using it again when you turn the lights back on. BUT at the same time she's also talking about natural planted tanks that do not use CO2 injection, and require CO2 output from the critters in the tank. Amber Lainey Alexander wrote: > > > Would it be OK if I run the main lighting for five hours then take a > couple hour break with no light and then run them again for three or > so? IOW I like to see the tank AM and PM, so can I turn the lights > off in the afternoon and then back on for the evening? Or will this > send the plants and fish into a tailspin? > > Lainey > http://www.grasslan <http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com> dsgouldians.com <http://www.grasslan <http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com> dsgouldians.com> > > On Oct 16, 2009, at 10:54 PM, Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > > > Right, a 15W screw in CFL is equal to around 65W of incandescent > > lighting > > (nearly 5X's as much light out of a 15W CFL compared to > > incandescent... but > > those are usually cool white bulbs in the 10,000K range, so they > > are not the > > same thing that you are looking at for your aquarium although I > > have used > > the tubular shaped ones for use in a 10G tank fixture that I have > > that uses > > the 7.5W incandescent screw in bulbs. Two of those screw in CFL's > > made that > > tank visible from Mars so I put a burned out incandescent in one > > screw in > > receptacle and only one of the CFL's in the other screw in > > receptacle and > > that made it brightly lit but no longer an attraction for UFO's > > that might > > be flying by. ;-) > > > > Yes, a single or even a few LED's will not affect things at all > > except for > > giving you some moon-lighting effects. You can run them as long as > > you like > > or even have room lighting on when the tank lights are not on. > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> blogspot.com> > > (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the > > right > > side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, > > Month) > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > [mailto:AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On > > Behalf Of Lainey Alexander > > Sent: Friday, October 16, 2009 8:58 PM > > To: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] OOPS re green water > > > > OK, this is very helpful. I did not realize that these were compacts. > > I use CFLs for my finches, but they are screw in types - 15 watts > > gives you > > 65 or something. So I am getting a ton of light out of these > > aquarium tubes. > > I have cut back to 10.5 hours per day so far, will cut back further > > now. > > > > BTW I got the fixture with the blue LED night lights - is it OK to > > use them? > > I enjoy them as I am nocturnal. > > > > Thank you very much! > > > > Lainey > > http://www.grasslan <http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com> dsgouldians.com <http://www.grasslan <http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com> dsgouldians.com> > > > > On Oct 16, 2009, at 9:53 PM, Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > > > > > Now you're talking!!! > > > > > > http://www.amazon. <http://www.amazon.com/Coralife-Energy-Savers-6700K-Strait/dp/> com/Coralife-Energy-Savers-6700K-Strait/dp/ > <http://www.amazon. <http://www.amazon.com/Coralife-Energy-Savers-6700K-Strait/dp/> com/Coralife-Energy-Savers-6700K-Strait/dp/> > > > B002DVYC30 > > > > > > You do have CFL's, sometimes called Power Compact as in the above > > ad. > > > CFL stands for Compact Fluorescent Lighting. > > > > > > This means each of your 65 watt CFL's are actually equal to 130 > > to 180 > > > watts of standard fluorescent lighting. > > > > > > To put this in perspective, with your 37G tank, in the *old* days > > when > > > WPG (watts per gallon) was the baseline, 1WPG worked for low light > > > plants, 2-3WPG for medium light plants and 4-5WPG for high light > > > plants. > > > Your two > > > 65W CFL's would be equal to 260 to 360 Watts of *old* fluorescent > > > lighting, which means you comparably have anywhere from 7WPG to > > nearly > > > 10WPG of lighting on your tank. YOU DEFINITELY DO NOT NEED 12 > > hours a > > > day of lighting. Slowly start cutting back from your current 12 > > hours > > > down to 11 hours for a few days, then 10 hours, then 9 hours, then 8 > > > hours, etc., until you see your plants still doing well but NOT the > > > algae. You may be able to get by with as little as 6-7 hours of > > > lighting... and with that much light, having some (or a lot after a > > > short time) floating Anacharis or Hornwort will also help it grow > > fast > > > and block out some of the lighting to the algae. > > > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> blogspot.com> > > > (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the > > > right > > > side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, > > > Month) > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > From: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > [mailto:AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On > > > Behalf Of Lainey Alexander > > > Sent: Friday, October 16, 2009 6:20 PM > > > To: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] OOPS re green water > > > > > > All I can see is "coralife 65 watt 6700k" - each bulb has two > > > tubes, and > > > they don't quite make a U turn but they are connected by a small > > > bridge that > > > seems to be part of the bulb itself. Does this tell us anything? > > > > > > Lainey > > > http://www.grasslan <http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com> dsgouldians.com > <http://www.grasslan <http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com> dsgouldians.com> > > > > > > On Oct 16, 2009, at 2:37 PM, Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > > > > > > > Long straight tubes with pins on each end? Many other bulbs also > > > have > > > > pins but CFL's only have them on one end and the tube usually > > > makes a > > > > U- turn and comes back to the same fitting. They should have a > > brand > > > > and item number on them... or something else... but they are > > > probably > > > > just standard fluorescent tubes. You would have to turn the > > fixture > > > > over and look at the bulbs... > > > > maybe even removing one to look for the writing on the glass on > > one > > > > end of the tube. It might/should even have a T-__ code which is a > > > > standard coding now for fluorescent tubes. > > > > > > > > You need to know this information as, depending on the brand/type/ > > > > etc., you might have to replace these bulbs every six months or > > so. > > > > > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> blogspot.com> (Links to any articles > > > > referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, > > > alphabetically > > > > under Labels and also under Archives by Year, > > > > Month) > > > > > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > > From: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > [mailto:AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On Behalf Of Lainey Alexander > > > > Sent: Friday, October 16, 2009 10:17 AM > > > > To: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] OOPS re green water > > > > > > > > Lenny - > > > > > > > > As far as I know, I have regular standard fluorescents, they > > are the > > > > ones with the pins - 65 watts, two bulbs, 6700k each. > > > > > > > > Lainey > > > > http://www.grasslan <http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com> dsgouldians.com > <http://www.grasslan <http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com> dsgouldians.com> > > > > > > > > On Oct 16, 2009, at 1:16 AM, Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > > > > > > > > > Lets see... my first thoughts would be... > > > > > > > > > > http://images. <http://images.veer.com/IMG/PILL/MAI/MAI0002683_P.JPG> veer.com/IMG/PILL/MAI/MAI0002683_P.JPG > <http://images. <http://images.veer.com/IMG/PILL/MAI/MAI0002683_P.JPG> veer.com/IMG/PILL/MAI/MAI0002683_P.JPG> > > > > > > > > > > (maybe without the Parrot as an eye witness... lol... ;-)) > > > > > > > > > > It's good to hear you have a 30" x 12" footprint but you need to > > > > quit > > > > > using the "depth" term for the front to back measurement, > > although > > > > > that is a common term to use for measuring other physical > > > items, for > > > > > aquariums, because of the water, "depth" can easily be > > > > misconstrued to > > > > > be the depth of the water. This is why the standard for aquarium > > > > > measurement is L x W x H (Length by Width by Height). I know the > > > > > "width" part can be confusing also since that would be the long > > > > sides > > > > > of most aquarium where we commonly use the long sides as the > > > length > > > > > and the front to back measurement as the width. > > > > > Don't ask me who invented this standard. LOL > > > > > > > > > > At least with the 30" x 12" footprint and only 23" tall and your > > > > tank > > > > > is still based on the same footprint as a 20G but at least > > it's a > > > > 20G > > > > > LONG footprint instead of a regular 20G footprint. It's also not > > > > > nearly as tall as what you originally said was a 30" tall > > tank so > > > > this > > > > > makes your lighting more practical... BUT... you still DO NOT > > > > need 5" > > > > > to 7" of gravel. > > > > > Still > > > > > cut this back to 2" to 3". > > > > > > > > > > I do not recall if you ever listed details on your lighting > > other > > > > than > > > > > saying you had two 65W fluorescent bulbs. Are they standard > > > > > fluorescent bulbs... long single tubes with two pins on each > > end? > > > > Look > > > > > on the bulbs for any item numbers, brand names, etc. and let us > > > > know. > > > > > From what I can see on the net, it looks like you could either > > > have > > > > > 65W CFL's instead of standard fluorescent bulbs but they do also > > > > have > > > > > a T-10 65W Fluorescent tube. While they are both called 65W > > > (watt), > > > > > the CFL's would put out 2-3 times more light (lumens) than > > > standard > > > > > fluorescent tubes. > > > > > > > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > > > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> blogspot.com> (Links to any articles > > > > > referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, > > > > alphabetically > > > > > under Labels and also under Archives by Year, > > > > > Month) > > > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > > > From: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > [mailto:AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On Behalf Of Lainey > > Alexander > > > > > Sent: Thursday, October 15, 2009 8:38 PM > > > > > To: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > Subject: [AquaticLife] OOPS re green water > > > > > > > > > > I just realized that I completely goofed on these measurements > > > > > (below), which is why everyone has been so adamant about my > > crazy > > > > tank > > > > > shape! > > > > > > > > > > The height is 23, the WIDTH is 30 and the depth is 12. > > > > > > > > > > I'm so sorry to make everyone talk about something that was > > > > incorrect > > > > > this whole time. But now, can you all let me know if this is a > > > much > > > > > more reasonable depth please? Does this change my bioload > > > issues at > > > > > all? > > > > > Does it > > > > > change the appropriateness of my lights? > > > > > > > > > > In five weeks several of my plants are near the top of the > > water, > > > > so I > > > > > think they must be fairly happy with the light. > > > > > > > > > > My apologies for being careless. > > > > > > > > > > Lainey > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Tank measurements are 30 high, 23 wide and 12 deep. > > > > > > > > > > > > Fluorescent lights, 2 @65 watts and 6700k - on 12 and off 12 > > > > > which is > > > > > > what I have been told my plants require... > > > > > > > > > > > > I used Activ-Flora gravel, and this contains non-nitrogen > > > > fertilizer > > > > > > plus "instant-cycling" bacteria > > > > > > > > > > > > Not dosing with any chemicals or ferts > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 43929	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 10/17/2009
Subject: Re: OOPS re green water

Awww... but that's too easy. LOL I should have mentioned this as an option since her fixture is a shorter 24" fixture. In a 48" fixture, with one CFL on each end of the fixture, removing one bulb would give the tank off-balanced lighting If you do remove a bulb, put a piece of electrical tape over the pin openings, if the fixture is exposed to any humidity/evaporation from the tank, to dissuade any oxidation/corrosion. If there is a plastic/glass tank cover between the lighting and the tank, then the covering of the pin opening is not as important. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Donna Ransome Sent: Saturday, October 17, 2009 7:27 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] OOPS re green water I agree. Or remove one bulb. _____ From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Lenny V. aka GoldLenny Sent: Friday, October 16, 2009 9:53 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] OOPS re green water Now you're talking!!! http://www.amazon. <http://www.amazon.com/Coralife-Energy-Savers-6700K-Strait/dp/B002DVYC30> com/Coralife-Energy-Savers-6700K-Strait/dp/B002DVYC30 You do have CFL's, sometimes called Power Compact as in the above ad. CFL stands for Compact Fluorescent Lighting. This means each of your 65 watt CFL's are actually equal to 130 to 180 watts of standard fluorescent lighting. To put this in perspective, with your 37G tank, in the *old* days when WPG (watts per gallon) was the baseline, 1WPG worked for low light plants, 2-3WPG for medium light plants and 4-5WPG for high light plants. Your two 65W CFL's would be equal to 260 to 360 Watts of *old* fluorescent lighting, which means you comparably have anywhere from 7WPG to nearly 10WPG of lighting on your tank. YOU DEFINITELY DO NOT NEED 12 hours a day of lighting. Slowly start cutting back from your current 12 hours down to 11 hours for a few days, then 10 hours, then 9 hours, then 8 hours, etc., until you see your plants still doing well but NOT the algae. You may be able to get by with as little as 6-7 hours of lighting... and with that much light, having some (or a lot after a short time) floating Anacharis or Hornwort will also help it grow fast and block out some of the lighting to the algae. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Lainey Alexander Sent: Friday, October 16, 2009 6:20 PM To: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] OOPS re green water All I can see is "coralife 65 watt 6700k" - each bulb has two tubes, and they don't quite make a U turn but they are connected by a small bridge that seems to be part of the bulb itself. Does this tell us anything? Lainey http://www.grasslan <http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com> dsgouldians.com On Oct 16, 2009, at 2:37 PM, Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > Long straight tubes with pins on each end? Many other bulbs also have > pins but CFL's only have them on one end and the tube usually makes a > U- turn and comes back to the same fitting. They should have a brand > and item number on them... or something else... but they are probably > just standard fluorescent tubes. You would have to turn the fixture > over and look at the bulbs... > maybe even removing one to look for the writing on the glass on one > end of the tube. It might/should even have a T-__ code which is a > standard coding now for fluorescent tubes. > > You need to know this information as, depending on the brand/type/ > etc., you might have to replace these bulbs every six months or so. > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > blogspot.com (Links to any articles > referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically > under Labels and also under Archives by Year, > Month) > > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@ > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Lainey Alexander > Sent: Friday, October 16, 2009 10:17 AM > To: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > yahoogroups.com > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] OOPS re green water > > Lenny - > > As far as I know, I have regular standard fluorescents, they are the > ones with the pins - 65 watts, two bulbs, 6700k each. > > Lainey > http://www.grasslan <http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com> > dsgouldians.com > > On Oct 16, 2009, at 1:16 AM, Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > > > Lets see... my first thoughts would be... > > > > http://images. > > <http://images.veer.com/IMG/PILL/MAI/MAI0002683_P.JPG> veer.com/IMG/PILL/MAI/MAI0002683_P.JPG > > > > (maybe without the Parrot as an eye witness... lol... ;-)) > > > > It's good to hear you have a 30" x 12" footprint but you need to > quit > > using the "depth" term for the front to back measurement, although > > that is a common term to use for measuring other physical items, for > > aquariums, because of the water, "depth" can easily be > misconstrued to > > be the depth of the water. This is why the standard for aquarium > > measurement is L x W x H (Length by Width by Height). I know the > > "width" part can be confusing also since that would be the long > sides > > of most aquarium where we commonly use the long sides as the length > > and the front to back measurement as the width. > > Don't ask me who invented this standard. LOL > > > > At least with the 30" x 12" footprint and only 23" tall and your > tank > > is still based on the same footprint as a 20G but at least it's a > 20G > > LONG footprint instead of a regular 20G footprint. It's also not > > nearly as tall as what you originally said was a 30" tall tank so > this > > makes your lighting more practical... BUT... you still DO NOT > need 5" > > to 7" of gravel. > > Still > > cut this back to 2" to 3". > > > > I do not recall if you ever listed details on your lighting other > than > > saying you had two 65W fluorescent bulbs. Are they standard > > fluorescent bulbs... long single tubes with two pins on each end? > Look > > on the bulbs for any item numbers, brand names, etc. and let us > know. > > From what I can see on the net, it looks like you could either have > > 65W CFL's instead of standard fluorescent bulbs but they do also > have > > a T-10 65W Fluorescent tube. While they are both called 65W (watt), > > the CFL's would put out 2-3 times more light (lumens) than standard > > fluorescent tubes. > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> blogspot.com (Links to any articles > > referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, > alphabetically > > under Labels and also under Archives by Year, > > Month) > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com > > [mailto:AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Lainey Alexander > > Sent: Thursday, October 15, 2009 8:38 PM > > To: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > yahoogroups.com > > Subject: [AquaticLife] OOPS re green water > > > > I just realized that I completely goofed on these measurements > > (below), which is why everyone has been so adamant about my crazy > tank > > shape! > > > > The height is 23, the WIDTH is 30 and the depth is 12. > > > > I'm so sorry to make everyone talk about something that was > incorrect > > this whole time. But now, can you all let me know if this is a much > > more reasonable depth please? Does this change my bioload issues at > > all? > > Does it > > change the appropriateness of my lights? > > > > In five weeks several of my plants are near the top of the water, > so I > > think they must be fairly happy with the light. > > > > My apologies for being careless. > > > > Lainey > > > > > > > > Tank measurements are 30 high, 23 wide and 12 deep. > > > > > > Fluorescent lights, 2 @65 watts and 6700k - on 12 and off 12 > > which is > > > what I have been told my plants require... > > > > > > I used Activ-Flora gravel, and this contains non-nitrogen > fertilizer > > > plus "instant-cycling" bacteria > > > > > > Not dosing with any chemicals or ferts

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 43930	From: Donna Ransome	Date: 10/17/2009
Subject: Re: OOPS re green water

The fixture has a plastic covering over the bulb cavity and also instructions call for placement of the fixture over a glass cover only. The tape can't hurt! _____ From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Lenny V. aka GoldLenny Sent: Saturday, October 17, 2009 1:24 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] OOPS re green water Awww... but that's too easy. LOL I should have mentioned this as an option since her fixture is a shorter 24" fixture. In a 48" fixture, with one CFL on each end of the fixture, removing one bulb would give the tank off-balanced lighting If you do remove a bulb, put a piece of electrical tape over the pin openings, if the fixture is exposed to any humidity/evaporation from the tank, to dissuade any oxidation/corrosion. If there is a plastic/glass tank cover between the lighting and the tank, then the covering of the pin opening is not as important. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Donna Ransome Sent: Saturday, October 17, 2009 7:27 AM To: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] OOPS re green water I agree. Or remove one bulb. _____ From: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Lenny V. aka GoldLenny Sent: Friday, October 16, 2009 9:53 PM To: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] OOPS re green water Now you're talking!!! http://www.amazon. <http://www.amazon. <http://www.amazon.com/Coralife-Energy-Savers-6700K-Strait/dp/B002DVYC30> com/Coralife-Energy-Savers-6700K-Strait/dp/B002DVYC30> com/Coralife-Energy-Savers-6700K-Strait/dp/B002DVYC30 You do have CFL's, sometimes called Power Compact as in the above ad. CFL stands for Compact Fluorescent Lighting. This means each of your 65 watt CFL's are actually equal to 130 to 180 watts of standard fluorescent lighting. To put this in perspective, with your 37G tank, in the *old* days when WPG (watts per gallon) was the baseline, 1WPG worked for low light plants, 2-3WPG for medium light plants and 4-5WPG for high light plants. Your two 65W CFL's would be equal to 260 to 360 Watts of *old* fluorescent lighting, which means you comparably have anywhere from 7WPG to nearly 10WPG of lighting on your tank. YOU DEFINITELY DO NOT NEED 12 hours a day of lighting. Slowly start cutting back from your current 12 hours down to 11 hours for a few days, then 10 hours, then 9 hours, then 8 hours, etc., until you see your plants still doing well but NOT the algae. You may be able to get by with as little as 6-7 hours of lighting... and with that much light, having some (or a lot after a short time) floating Anacharis or Hornwort will also help it grow fast and block out some of the lighting to the algae. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> blogspot.com> blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Lainey Alexander Sent: Friday, October 16, 2009 6:20 PM To: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] OOPS re green water All I can see is "coralife 65 watt 6700k" - each bulb has two tubes, and they don't quite make a U turn but they are connected by a small bridge that seems to be part of the bulb itself. Does this tell us anything? Lainey http://www.grasslan <http://www.grasslan <http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com> dsgouldians.com> dsgouldians.com On Oct 16, 2009, at 2:37 PM, Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > Long straight tubes with pins on each end? Many other bulbs also have > pins but CFL's only have them on one end and the tube usually makes a > U- turn and comes back to the same fitting. They should have a brand > and item number on them... or something else... but they are probably > just standard fluorescent tubes. You would have to turn the fixture > over and look at the bulbs... > maybe even removing one to look for the writing on the glass on one > end of the tube. It might/should even have a T-__ code which is a > standard coding now for fluorescent tubes. > > You need to know this information as, depending on the brand/type/ > etc., you might have to replace these bulbs every six months or so. > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> blogspot.com> > blogspot.com (Links to any articles > referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically > under Labels and also under Archives by Year, > Month) > > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@ > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Lainey Alexander > Sent: Friday, October 16, 2009 10:17 AM > To: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > yahoogroups.com > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] OOPS re green water > > Lenny - > > As far as I know, I have regular standard fluorescents, they are the > ones with the pins - 65 watts, two bulbs, 6700k each. > > Lainey > http://www.grasslan <http://www.grasslan <http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com> dsgouldians.com> > dsgouldians.com > > On Oct 16, 2009, at 1:16 AM, Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > > > Lets see... my first thoughts would be... > > > > http://images. > > <http://images. <http://images.veer.com/IMG/PILL/MAI/MAI0002683_P.JPG> veer.com/IMG/PILL/MAI/MAI0002683_P.JPG> veer.com/IMG/PILL/MAI/MAI0002683_P.JPG > > > > (maybe without the Parrot as an eye witness... lol... ;-)) > > > > It's good to hear you have a 30" x 12" footprint but you need to > quit > > using the "depth" term for the front to back measurement, although > > that is a common term to use for measuring other physical items, for > > aquariums, because of the water, "depth" can easily be > misconstrued to > > be the depth of the water. This is why the standard for aquarium > > measurement is L x W x H (Length by Width by Height). I know the > > "width" part can be confusing also since that would be the long > sides > > of most aquarium where we commonly use the long sides as the length > > and the front to back measurement as the width. > > Don't ask me who invented this standard. LOL > > > > At least with the 30" x 12" footprint and only 23" tall and your > tank > > is still based on the same footprint as a 20G but at least it's a > 20G > > LONG footprint instead of a regular 20G footprint. It's also not > > nearly as tall as what you originally said was a 30" tall tank so > this > > makes your lighting more practical... BUT... you still DO NOT > need 5" > > to 7" of gravel. > > Still > > cut this back to 2" to 3". > > > > I do not recall if you ever listed details on your lighting other > than > > saying you had two 65W fluorescent bulbs. Are they standard > > fluorescent bulbs... long single tubes with two pins on each end? > Look > > on the bulbs for any item numbers, brand names, etc. and let us > know. > > From what I can see on the net, it looks like you could either have > > 65W CFL's instead of standard fluorescent bulbs but they do also > have > > a T-10 65W Fluorescent tube. While they are both called 65W (watt), > > the CFL's would put out 2-3 times more light (lumens) than standard > > fluorescent tubes. > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> blogspot.com> blogspot.com (Links to any articles > > referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, > alphabetically > > under Labels and also under Archives by Year, > > Month) > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com > > [mailto:AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Lainey Alexander > > Sent: Thursday, October 15, 2009 8:38 PM > > To: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > yahoogroups.com > > Subject: [AquaticLife] OOPS re green water > > > > I just realized that I completely goofed on these measurements > > (below), which is why everyone has been so adamant about my crazy > tank > > shape! > > > > The height is 23, the WIDTH is 30 and the depth is 12. > > > > I'm so sorry to make everyone talk about something that was > incorrect > > this whole time. But now, can you all let me know if this is a much > > more reasonable depth please? Does this change my bioload issues at > > all? > > Does it > > change the appropriateness of my lights? > > > > In five weeks several of my plants are near the top of the water, > so I > > think they must be fairly happy with the light. > > > > My apologies for being careless. > > > > Lainey > > > > > > > > Tank measurements are 30 high, 23 wide and 12 deep. > > > > > > Fluorescent lights, 2 @65 watts and 6700k - on 12 and off 12 > > which is > > > what I have been told my plants require... > > > > > > I used Activ-Flora gravel, and this contains non-nitrogen > fertilizer > > > plus "instant-cycling" bacteria > > > > > > Not dosing with any chemicals or ferts [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 43931	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 10/17/2009
Subject: Re: OOPS re green water

Normally they carry longer ones, I tried ordering that type of light from DFS.com but it kept arriving broken no matter how they shipped it (granted it had no protection around the bulbs so they were just banging around in the fixture until it got here, and of course they arrived broken). After the 2nd time arriving broken I said nevermind, sent it back and waited for my refund (which took about a month *sigh*), then I got a much better light from marinedepot.com and it arrived in perfect condition and I LOVE the light better than the one I pointed out for sale, but the one on sale is a decent light too, just a step down from the one I ended up getting (which includes it's own timer, and legs to prop the light fixture up, whereas the other one just sets on top of your aquarium lid). Amber Donna Ransome wrote: > > That’s the fixture I have too on all tanks, but my fixtures are longer. > > _____ > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On > Behalf Of Amber Berglund > Sent: Friday, October 16, 2009 9:50 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] OOPS re green water > > If you ever want to increase your lighting even more with CFL bulbs you > can find better bulbs with a better light spectrum. I actually have the > same bulbs in my light fixture, I use the straight pin on the fixture on > my 55 gallon and the 125 gallon has square pin lights. I've found that > there's a better selection for straight pin bulbs on marinedepot.com > than square pin (and the prices are usually better). > Oh and while I'm talking about marinedepot.com they are running a sale > on a light fixture that has CFL bulbs and LED night lighting all in one. > They only go from 24-36 inches though, but they are all on sale. > http://www.marinede > <http://www.marinedepot.com/24_inch_2x65_Watt_Current_USA_PowerCompact_Dual_ > <http://www.marinedepot.com/24_inch_2x65_Watt_Current_USA_PowerCompact_Dual_> > Satellite_Fixture_24_Inch_Power_Compact_Light_Fixtures-Current_USA-CU01011-F > ILTFIPCTF-CU01013-vi.html> > pot.com/24_inch_2x65_Watt_Current_USA_PowerCompact_Dual_Satellite_Fixture_24 > _Inch_Power_Compact_Light_Fixtures-Current_USA-CU01011-FILTFIPCTF-CU01013-vi > .html > > Amber > > Lainey Alexander wrote: > > > > > > Thanks, Amber - they are tubes that reach the length of the tank. > > > > Lainey > > http://www.grasslan <http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com > <http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com>> dsgouldians.com > <http://www.grasslan <http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com > <http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com>> dsgouldians.com> > > > > On Oct 16, 2009, at 9:35 PM, Amber Berglund wrote: > > > > > those are CFL bulbs, so you have more than enough lighting for your 37 > > > gallon if you have 1 bulb on each side of the tank. > > > > > > Amber > > > > > > Lainey Alexander wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > All I can see is "coralife 65 watt 6700k" - each bulb has two tubes, > > > > and they don't quite make a U turn but they are connected by a small > > > > bridge that seems to be part of the bulb itself. Does this tell us > > > > anything? > > > > > > > > Lainey > > > > http://www.grasslan <http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com > <http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com>> > dsgouldians.com > > <http://www.grasslan <http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com > <http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com>> dsgouldians.com> > <http:// > > > www.grasslandsgouldians.com> > > > > > > > > On Oct 16, 2009, at 2:37 PM, Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > > > > > > > > > Long straight tubes with pins on each end? Many other bulbs also > > > > > have pins > > > > > but CFL's only have them on one end and the tube usually makes > > > a U- > > > > > turn and > > > > > comes back to the same fitting. They should have a brand and item > > > > > number on > > > > > them... or something else... but they are probably just standard > > > > > fluorescent > > > > > tubes. You would have to turn the fixture over and look at the > > > > > bulbs... > > > > > maybe even removing one to look for the writing on the glass on > > > one > > > > > end of > > > > > the tube. It might/should even have a T-__ code which is a > > > standard > > > > > coding > > > > > now for fluorescent tubes. > > > > > > > > > > You need to know this information as, depending on the brand/type/ > > > > > etc., you > > > > > might have to replace these bulbs every six months or so. > > > > > > > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > > > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>> > blogspot.com > > <http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>> blogspot.com> > > > > <http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>> blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>> blogspot.com>> > > > > > (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the > > > > > right > > > > > side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, > > > > > Month) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > > > From: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > yahoogroups.com > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > [mailto:AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > yahoogroups.com > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On > > > > > Behalf Of Lainey Alexander > > > > > Sent: Friday, October 16, 2009 10:17 AM > > > > > To: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > yahoogroups.com > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife% > > > 40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] OOPS re green water > > > > > > > > > > Lenny - > > > > > > > > > > As far as I know, I have regular standard fluorescents, they are > > > > > the ones > > > > > with the pins - 65 watts, two bulbs, 6700k each. > > > > > > > > > > Lainey > > > > > http://www.grasslan <http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com > <http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com>> > dsgouldians.com > > <http://www.grasslan <http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com > <http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com>> dsgouldians.com> > <http:// > > > www.grasslandsgouldians.com> > > > > > > > > > > On Oct 16, 2009, at 1:16 AM, Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > Lets see... my first thoughts would be... > > > > > > > > > > > > http://images. > <http://images.veer.com/IMG/PILL/MAI/MAI0002683_P.JPG > <http://images.veer.com/IMG/PILL/MAI/MAI0002683_P.JPG>> > veer.com/IMG/PILL/MAI/MAI0002683_P.JPG > > <http://images. > <http://images.veer.com/IMG/PILL/MAI/MAI0002683_P.JPG > <http://images.veer.com/IMG/PILL/MAI/MAI0002683_P.JPG>> > veer.com/IMG/PILL/MAI/MAI0002683_P.JPG> > > > > <http://images. > <http://images.veer.com/IMG/PILL/MAI/MAI0002683_P.JPG > <http://images.veer.com/IMG/PILL/MAI/MAI0002683_P.JPG>> > veer.com/IMG/PILL/MAI/MAI0002683_P.JPG > > <http://images. > <http://images.veer.com/IMG/PILL/MAI/MAI0002683_P.JPG > <http://images.veer.com/IMG/PILL/MAI/MAI0002683_P.JPG>> > veer.com/IMG/PILL/MAI/MAI0002683_P.JPG>> > > > > > > > > > > > > (maybe without the Parrot as an eye witness... lol... ;-)) > > > > > > > > > > > > It's good to hear you have a 30" x 12" footprint but you need to > > > > > quit > > > > > > using the "depth" term for the front to back measurement, > > > although > > > > > > that is a common term to use for measuring other physical > > > items, for > > > > > > aquariums, because of the water, "depth" can easily be > > > > > misconstrued to > > > > > > be the depth of the water. This is why the standard for aquarium > > > > > > measurement is L x W x H (Length by Width by Height). I know the > > > > > > "width" part can be confusing also since that would be the long > > > > > sides > > > > > > of most aquarium where we commonly use the long sides as the > > > length > > > > > > and the front to back measurement as the width. > > > > > > Don't ask me who invented this standard. LOL > > > > > > > > > > > > At least with the 30" x 12" footprint and only 23" tall and your > > > > > tank > > > > > > is still based on the same footprint as a 20G but at least > > > it's a > > > > > 20G > > > > > > LONG footprint instead of a regular 20G footprint. It's also not > > > > > > nearly as tall as what you originally said was a 30" tall > > > tank so > > > > > this > > > > > > makes your lighting more practical... BUT... you still DO NOT > > > > > need 5" > > > > > > to 7" of gravel. > > > > > > Still > > > > > > cut this back to 2" to 3". > > > > > > > > > > > > I do not recall if you ever listed details on your lighting > > > other > > > > > than > > > > > > saying you had two 65W fluorescent bulbs. Are they standard > > > > > > fluorescent bulbs... long single tubes with two pins on each > > > end? > > > > > Look > > > > > > on the bulbs for any item numbers, brand names, etc. and let us > > > > > know. > > > > > > From what I can see on the net, it looks like you could > > > either have > > > > > > 65W CFL's instead of standard fluorescent bulbs but they do also > > > > > have > > > > > > a T-10 65W Fluorescent tube. While they are both called 65W > > > (watt), > > > > > > the CFL's would put out 2-3 times more light (lumens) than > > > standard > > > > > > fluorescent tubes. > > > > > > > > > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > > > > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>> > blogspot.com > > <http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>> blogspot.com> > > > > <http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>> blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>> blogspot.com>> > > (Links to any articles > > > > > > referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, > > > > > alphabetically > > > > > > under Labels and also under Archives by Year, > > > > > > Month) > > > > > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > > > > From: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > yahoogroups.com > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > [mailto:AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > yahoogroups.com > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On Behalf Of Lainey > > > Alexander > > > > > > Sent: Thursday, October 15, 2009 8:38 PM > > > > > > To: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > yahoogroups.com > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife% > > > 40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > Subject: [AquaticLife] OOPS re green water > > > > > > > > > > > > I just realized that I completely goofed on these measurements > > > > > > (below), which is why everyone has been so adamant about my > > > crazy > > > > > tank > > > > > > shape! > > > > > > > > > > > > The height is 23, the WIDTH is 30 and the depth is 12. > > > > > > > > > > > > I'm so sorry to make everyone talk about something that was > > > > > incorrect > > > > > > this whole time. But now, can you all let me know if this is > > > a much > > > > > > more reasonable depth please? Does this change my bioload > > > issues at > > > > > > all? > > > > > > Does it > > > > > > change the appropriateness of my lights? > > > > > > > > > > > > In five weeks several of my plants are near the top of the > > > water, > > > > > so I > > > > > > think they must be fairly happy with the light. > > > > > > > > > > > > My apologies for being careless. > > > > > > > > > > > > Lainey > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Tank measurements are 30 high, 23 wide and 12 deep. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Fluorescent lights, 2 @65 watts and 6700k - on 12 and off 12 > > > > > > which is > > > > > > > what I have been told my plants require... > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I used Activ-Flora gravel, and this contains non-nitrogen > > > > > fertilizer > > > > > > > plus "instant-cycling" bacteria > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Not dosing with any chemicals or ferts > > > > > > > > > > > > > > *** > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 43932	From: bill 1433	Date: 10/17/2009
Subject: Re: OOPS re green water

Hi Amber, Just wanted to ask, "Do you have any of these lights posted in our photo section? Would you? Bill --- On Sat, 10/17/09, Amber Berglund <arberglund@...> wrote: > From: Amber Berglund <arberglund@...> > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] OOPS re green water > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Date: Saturday, October 17, 2009, 2:07 PM > Normally they carry longer ones, I > tried ordering that type of light > from DFS.com but it kept arriving broken no matter how they > shipped it > (granted it had no protection around the bulbs so they were > just banging > around in the fixture until it got here, and of course they > arrived > broken). After the 2nd time arriving broken I said > nevermind, sent it > back and waited for my refund (which took about a month > *sigh*), then I > got a much better light from marinedepot.com and it arrived > in perfect > condition and I LOVE the light better than the one I > pointed out for > sale, but the one on sale is a decent light too, just a > step down from > the one I ended up getting (which includes it's own timer, > and legs to > prop the light fixture up, whereas the other one just sets > on top of > your aquarium lid). > > Amber > > Donna Ransome wrote: > > > > That’s the fixture I have too on all tanks, but my > fixtures are longer. > > > > _____ > > > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On > > Behalf Of Amber Berglund > > Sent: Friday, October 16, 2009 9:50 PM > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] OOPS re green water > > > > If you ever want to increase your lighting even more > with CFL bulbs you > > can find better bulbs with a better light spectrum. I > actually have the > > same bulbs in my light fixture, I use the straight pin > on the fixture on > > my 55 gallon and the 125 gallon has square pin lights. > I've found that > > there's a better selection for straight pin bulbs on > marinedepot.com > > than square pin (and the prices are usually better). > > Oh and while I'm talking about marinedepot.com they > are running a sale > > on a light fixture that has CFL bulbs and LED night > lighting all in one. > > They only go from 24-36 inches though, but they are > all on sale. > > http://www.marinede > > <http://www.marinedepot.com/24_inch_2x65_Watt_Current_USA_PowerCompact_Dual_ > > > <http://www.marinedepot.com/24_inch_2x65_Watt_Current_USA_PowerCompact_Dual_> > > > Satellite_Fixture_24_Inch_Power_Compact_Light_Fixtures-Current_USA-CU01011-F > > ILTFIPCTF-CU01013-vi.html> > > > pot.com/24_inch_2x65_Watt_Current_USA_PowerCompact_Dual_Satellite_Fixture_24 > > > _Inch_Power_Compact_Light_Fixtures-Current_USA-CU01011-FILTFIPCTF-CU01013-vi > > .html > > > > Amber > > > > Lainey Alexander wrote: > > > > > > > > > Thanks, Amber - they are tubes that reach the > length of the tank. > > > > > > Lainey > > > http://www.grasslan <http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com > > <http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com>> > dsgouldians.com > > <http://www.grasslan <http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com > > <http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com>> > dsgouldians.com> > > > > > > On Oct 16, 2009, at 9:35 PM, Amber Berglund > wrote: > > > > > > > those are CFL bulbs, so you have more than > enough lighting for your 37 > > > > gallon if you have 1 bulb on each side of > the tank. > > > > > > > > Amber > > > > > > > > Lainey Alexander wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > All I can see is "coralife 65 watt > 6700k" - each bulb has two tubes, > > > > > and they don't quite make a U turn but > they are connected by a small > > > > > bridge that seems to be part of the > bulb itself. Does this tell us > > > > > anything? > > > > > > > > > > Lainey > > > > > http://www.grasslan <http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com > > <http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com>> > > dsgouldians.com > > > <http://www.grasslan <http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com > > <http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com>> > dsgouldians.com> > > <http:// > > > > www.grasslandsgouldians.com> > > > > > > > > > > On Oct 16, 2009, at 2:37 PM, Lenny V. > aka GoldLenny wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > Long straight tubes with pins on > each end? Many other bulbs also > > > > > > have pins > > > > > > but CFL's only have them on one > end and the tube usually makes > > > > a U- > > > > > > turn and > > > > > > comes back to the same fitting. > They should have a brand and item > > > > > > number on > > > > > > them... or something else... but > they are probably just standard > > > > > > fluorescent > > > > > > tubes. You would have to turn the > fixture over and look at the > > > > > > bulbs... > > > > > > maybe even removing one to look > for the writing on the glass on > > > > one > > > > > > end of > > > > > > the tube. It might/should even > have a T-__ code which is a > > > > standard > > > > > > coding > > > > > > now for fluorescent tubes. > > > > > > > > > > > > You need to know this information > as, depending on the brand/type/ > > > > > > etc., you > > > > > > might have to replace these bulbs > every six months or so. > > > > > > > > > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > > > > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny. > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>> > > blogspot.com > > > <http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>> > blogspot.com> > > > > > <http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>> > blogspot.com > > <http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>> > blogspot.com>> > > > > > > (Links to any articles referenced > in above reply are listed on the > > > > > > right > > > > > > side, alphabetically under Labels > and also under Archives by Year, > > > > > > Month) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > > > > From: AquaticLife@ > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > yahoogroups.com > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > [mailto:AquaticLife@ > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > yahoogroups.com > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On > > > > > > Behalf Of Lainey Alexander > > > > > > Sent: Friday, October 16, 2009 > 10:17 AM > > > > > > To: AquaticLife@ > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > yahoogroups.com > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife% > > > > 40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] OOPS re > green water > > > > > > > > > > > > Lenny - > > > > > > > > > > > > As far as I know, I have regular > standard fluorescents, they are > > > > > > the ones > > > > > > with the pins - 65 watts, two > bulbs, 6700k each. > > > > > > > > > > > > Lainey > > > > > > http://www.grasslan <http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com > > <http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com>> > > dsgouldians.com > > > <http://www.grasslan <http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com > > <http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com>> > dsgouldians.com> > > <http:// > > > > www.grasslandsgouldians.com> > > > > > > > > > > > > On Oct 16, 2009, at 1:16 AM, Lenny > V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > Lets see... my first thoughts > would be... > > > > > > > > > > > > > > http://images. > > <http://images.veer.com/IMG/PILL/MAI/MAI0002683_P.JPG > > <http://images.veer.com/IMG/PILL/MAI/MAI0002683_P.JPG>> > > veer.com/IMG/PILL/MAI/MAI0002683_P.JPG > > > <http://images. > > <http://images.veer.com/IMG/PILL/MAI/MAI0002683_P.JPG > > <http://images.veer.com/IMG/PILL/MAI/MAI0002683_P.JPG>> > > veer.com/IMG/PILL/MAI/MAI0002683_P.JPG> > > > > > <http://images. > > <http://images.veer.com/IMG/PILL/MAI/MAI0002683_P.JPG > > <http://images.veer.com/IMG/PILL/MAI/MAI0002683_P.JPG>> > > veer.com/IMG/PILL/MAI/MAI0002683_P.JPG > > > <http://images. > > <http://images.veer.com/IMG/PILL/MAI/MAI0002683_P.JPG > > <http://images.veer.com/IMG/PILL/MAI/MAI0002683_P.JPG>> > > veer.com/IMG/PILL/MAI/MAI0002683_P.JPG>> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > (maybe without the Parrot as > an eye witness... lol... ;-)) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > It's good to hear you have a > 30" x 12" footprint but you need to > > > > > > quit > > > > > > > using the "depth" term for > the front to back measurement, > > > > although > > > > > > > that is a common term to use > for measuring other physical > > > > items, for > > > > > > > aquariums, because of the > water, "depth" can easily be > > > > > > misconstrued to > > > > > > > be the depth of the water. > This is why the standard for aquarium > > > > > > > measurement is L x W x H > (Length by Width by Height). I know the > > > > > > > "width" part can be confusing > also since that would be the long > > > > > > sides > > > > > > > of most aquarium where we > commonly use the long sides as the > > > > length > > > > > > > and the front to back > measurement as the width. > > > > > > > Don't ask me who invented > this standard. LOL > > > > > > > > > > > > > > At least with the 30" x 12" > footprint and only 23" tall and your > > > > > > tank > > > > > > > is still based on the same > footprint as a 20G but at least > > > > it's a > > > > > > 20G > > > > > > > LONG footprint instead of a > regular 20G footprint. It's also not > > > > > > > nearly as tall as what you > originally said was a 30" tall > > > > tank so > > > > > > this > > > > > > > makes your lighting more > practical... BUT... you still DO NOT > > > > > > need 5" > > > > > > > to 7" of gravel. > > > > > > > Still > > > > > > > cut this back to 2" to 3". > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I do not recall if you ever > listed details on your lighting > > > > other > > > > > > than > > > > > > > saying you had two 65W > fluorescent bulbs. Are they standard > > > > > > > fluorescent bulbs... long > single tubes with two pins on each > > > > end? > > > > > > Look > > > > > > > on the bulbs for any item > numbers, brand names, etc. and let us > > > > > > know. > > > > > > > From what I can see on the > net, it looks like you could > > > > either have > > > > > > > 65W CFL's instead of standard > fluorescent bulbs but they do also > > > > > > have > > > > > > > a T-10 65W Fluorescent tube. > While they are both called 65W > > > > (watt), > > > > > > > the CFL's would put out 2-3 > times more light (lumens) than > > > > standard > > > > > > > fluorescent tubes. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > > > > > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny. > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>> > > blogspot.com > > > <http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>> > blogspot.com> > > > > > <http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>> > blogspot.com > > <http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>> > blogspot.com>> > > > (Links to any articles > > > > > > > referenced in above reply are > listed on the right side, > > > > > > alphabetically > > > > > > > under Labels and also under > Archives by Year, > > > > > > > Month) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > > > > > From: AquaticLife@ > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > yahoogroups.com > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > [mailto:AquaticLife@ > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > yahoogroups.com > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On Behalf Of > Lainey > > > > Alexander > > > > > > > Sent: Thursday, October 15, > 2009 8:38 PM > > > > > > > To: AquaticLife@ > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > yahoogroups.com > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife% > > > > 40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > Subject: [AquaticLife] OOPS > re green water > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I just realized that I > completely goofed on these measurements > > > > > > > (below), which is why > everyone has been so adamant about my > > > > crazy > > > > > > tank > > > > > > > shape! > > > > > > > > > > > > > > The height is 23, the WIDTH > is 30 and the depth is 12. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I'm so sorry to make everyone > talk about something that was > > > > > > incorrect > > > > > > > this whole time. But now, can > you all let me know if this is > > > > a much > > > > > > > more reasonable depth please? > Does this change my bioload > > > > issues at > > > > > > > all? > > > > > > > Does it > > > > > > > change the appropriateness of > my lights? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > In five weeks several of my > plants are near the top of the > > > > water, > > > > > > so I > > > > > > > think they must be fairly > happy with the light. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > My apologies for being > careless. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Lainey > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Tank measurements are 30 > high, 23 wide and 12 deep. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Fluorescent lights, 2 > @65 watts and 6700k - on 12 and off 12 > > > > > > > which is > > > > > > > > what I have been told my > plants require... > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I used Activ-Flora > gravel, and this contains non-nitrogen > > > > > > fertilizer > > > > > > > > plus "instant-cycling" > bacteria > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Not dosing with any > chemicals or ferts > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > *** > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have > been removed] > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been > removed] > > > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > > > > ------------------------------------ > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when > replying, Thank You. > ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> > ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> > PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is > NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of > the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new > subject (was re: old subject)" <- > <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. > , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. > > If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of > unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by > clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the home page.  > > Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com > to receive the digest, which includes up to 25 posts at a > time in a single email > > Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com > for the No E-Mail option where you will still be able to > read messages on the group and post replies. > > Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com > to receive individual e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links > > >     mailto:AquaticLife-fullfeatured@yahoogroups.com > > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 43933	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 10/17/2009
Subject: Re: OOPS re green water

Picture of my light fixture? Amber bill 1433 wrote: > > > Hi Amber, > > Just wanted to ask, "Do you have any of these lights posted in our > photo section? Would you? > > Bill > > --- On Sat, 10/17/09, Amber Berglund <arberglund@... > <mailto:arberglund%40gmail.com>> wrote: > > > From: Amber Berglund <arberglund@... > <mailto:arberglund%40gmail.com>> > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] OOPS re green water > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > Date: Saturday, October 17, 2009, 2:07 PM > > Normally they carry longer ones, I > > tried ordering that type of light > > from DFS.com but it kept arriving broken no matter how they > > shipped it > > (granted it had no protection around the bulbs so they were > > just banging > > around in the fixture until it got here, and of course they > > arrived > > broken). After the 2nd time arriving broken I said > > nevermind, sent it > > back and waited for my refund (which took about a month > > *sigh*), then I > > got a much better light from marinedepot.com and it arrived > > in perfect > > condition and I LOVE the light better than the one I > > pointed out for > > sale, but the one on sale is a decent light too, just a > > step down from > > the one I ended up getting (which includes it's own timer, > > and legs to > > prop the light fixture up, whereas the other one just sets > > on top of > > your aquarium lid). > > > > Amber > > > > Donna Ransome wrote: > > > > > > That’s the fixture I have too on all tanks, but my > > fixtures are longer. > > > > > > _____ > > > > > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On > > > Behalf Of Amber Berglund > > > Sent: Friday, October 16, 2009 9:50 PM > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] OOPS re green water > > > > > > If you ever want to increase your lighting even more > > with CFL bulbs you > > > can find better bulbs with a better light spectrum. I > > actually have the > > > same bulbs in my light fixture, I use the straight pin > > on the fixture on > > > my 55 gallon and the 125 gallon has square pin lights. > > I've found that > > > there's a better selection for straight pin bulbs on > > marinedepot.com > > > than square pin (and the prices are usually better). > > > Oh and while I'm talking about marinedepot.com they > > are running a sale > > > on a light fixture that has CFL bulbs and LED night > > lighting all in one. > > > They only go from 24-36 inches though, but they are > > all on sale. > > > http://www.marinede > > > > <http://www.marinedepot.com/24_inch_2x65_Watt_Current_USA_PowerCompact_Dual_ > <http://www.marinedepot.com/24_inch_2x65_Watt_Current_USA_PowerCompact_Dual_> > > > > > > <http://www.marinedepot.com/24_inch_2x65_Watt_Current_USA_PowerCompact_Dual_ > <http://www.marinedepot.com/24_inch_2x65_Watt_Current_USA_PowerCompact_Dual_>> > > > > > > Satellite_Fixture_24_Inch_Power_Compact_Light_Fixtures-Current_USA-CU01011-F > > > ILTFIPCTF-CU01013-vi.html> > > > > > > pot.com/24_inch_2x65_Watt_Current_USA_PowerCompact_Dual_Satellite_Fixture_24 > > > > > > _Inch_Power_Compact_Light_Fixtures-Current_USA-CU01011-FILTFIPCTF-CU01013-vi > > > .html > > > > > > Amber > > > > > > Lainey Alexander wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > Thanks, Amber - they are tubes that reach the > > length of the tank. > > > > > > > > Lainey > > > > http://www.grasslan <http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com > <http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com> > > > <http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com > <http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com>>> > > dsgouldians.com > > > <http://www.grasslan <http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com > <http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com> > > > <http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com > <http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com>>> > > dsgouldians.com> > > > > > > > > On Oct 16, 2009, at 9:35 PM, Amber Berglund > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > those are CFL bulbs, so you have more than > > enough lighting for your 37 > > > > > gallon if you have 1 bulb on each side of > > the tank. > > > > > > > > > > Amber > > > > > > > > > > Lainey Alexander wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > All I can see is "coralife 65 watt > > 6700k" - each bulb has two tubes, > > > > > > and they don't quite make a U turn but > > they are connected by a small > > > > > > bridge that seems to be part of the > > bulb itself. Does this tell us > > > > > > anything? > > > > > > > > > > > > Lainey > > > > > > http://www.grasslan <http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com > <http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com> > > > <http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com > <http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com>>> > > > dsgouldians.com > > > > <http://www.grasslan <http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com > <http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com> > > > <http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com > <http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com>>> > > dsgouldians.com> > > > <http:// > > > > > www.grasslandsgouldians.com> > > > > > > > > > > > > On Oct 16, 2009, at 2:37 PM, Lenny V. > > aka GoldLenny wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > Long straight tubes with pins on > > each end? Many other bulbs also > > > > > > > have pins > > > > > > > but CFL's only have them on one > > end and the tube usually makes > > > > > a U- > > > > > > > turn and > > > > > > > comes back to the same fitting. > > They should have a brand and item > > > > > > > number on > > > > > > > them... or something else... but > > they are probably just standard > > > > > > > fluorescent > > > > > > > tubes. You would have to turn the > > fixture over and look at the > > > > > > > bulbs... > > > > > > > maybe even removing one to look > > for the writing on the glass on > > > > > one > > > > > > > end of > > > > > > > the tube. It might/should even > > have a T-__ code which is a > > > > > standard > > > > > > > coding > > > > > > > now for fluorescent tubes. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > You need to know this information > > as, depending on the brand/type/ > > > > > > > etc., you > > > > > > > might have to replace these bulbs > > every six months or so. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > > > > > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny. > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>>> > > > blogspot.com > > > > <http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>>> > > blogspot.com> > > > > > > <http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>>> > > blogspot.com > > > <http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>>> > > blogspot.com>> > > > > > > > (Links to any articles referenced > > in above reply are listed on the > > > > > > > right > > > > > > > side, alphabetically under Labels > > and also under Archives by Year, > > > > > > > Month) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > > > > > From: AquaticLife@ > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > yahoogroups.com > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > [mailto:AquaticLife@ > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > yahoogroups.com > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On > > > > > > > Behalf Of Lainey Alexander > > > > > > > Sent: Friday, October 16, 2009 > > 10:17 AM > > > > > > > To: AquaticLife@ > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > yahoogroups.com > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife% > > > > > 40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] OOPS re > > green water > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Lenny - > > > > > > > > > > > > > > As far as I know, I have regular > > standard fluorescents, they are > > > > > > > the ones > > > > > > > with the pins - 65 watts, two > > bulbs, 6700k each. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Lainey > > > > > > > http://www.grasslan <http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com > <http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com> > > > <http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com > <http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com>>> > > > dsgouldians.com > > > > <http://www.grasslan <http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com > <http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com> > > > <http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com > <http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com>>> > > dsgouldians.com> > > > <http:// > > > > > www.grasslandsgouldians.com> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > On Oct 16, 2009, at 1:16 AM, Lenny > > V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Lets see... my first thoughts > > would be... > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > http://images. > > > <http://images.veer.com/IMG/PILL/MAI/MAI0002683_P.JPG > <http://images.veer.com/IMG/PILL/MAI/MAI0002683_P.JPG> > > > <http://images.veer.com/IMG/PILL/MAI/MAI0002683_P.JPG > <http://images.veer.com/IMG/PILL/MAI/MAI0002683_P.JPG>>> > > > veer.com/IMG/PILL/MAI/MAI0002683_P.JPG > > > > <http://images. > > > <http://images.veer.com/IMG/PILL/MAI/MAI0002683_P.JPG > <http://images.veer.com/IMG/PILL/MAI/MAI0002683_P.JPG> > > > <http://images.veer.com/IMG/PILL/MAI/MAI0002683_P.JPG > <http://images.veer.com/IMG/PILL/MAI/MAI0002683_P.JPG>>> > > > veer.com/IMG/PILL/MAI/MAI0002683_P.JPG> > > > > > > <http://images. > > > <http://images.veer.com/IMG/PILL/MAI/MAI0002683_P.JPG > <http://images.veer.com/IMG/PILL/MAI/MAI0002683_P.JPG> > > > <http://images.veer.com/IMG/PILL/MAI/MAI0002683_P.JPG > <http://images.veer.com/IMG/PILL/MAI/MAI0002683_P.JPG>>> > > > veer.com/IMG/PILL/MAI/MAI0002683_P.JPG > > > > <http://images. > > > <http://images.veer.com/IMG/PILL/MAI/MAI0002683_P.JPG > <http://images.veer.com/IMG/PILL/MAI/MAI0002683_P.JPG> > > > <http://images.veer.com/IMG/PILL/MAI/MAI0002683_P.JPG > <http://images.veer.com/IMG/PILL/MAI/MAI0002683_P.JPG>>> > > > veer.com/IMG/PILL/MAI/MAI0002683_P.JPG>> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > (maybe without the Parrot as > > an eye witness... lol... ;-)) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > It's good to hear you have a > > 30" x 12" footprint but you need to > > > > > > > quit > > > > > > > > using the "depth" term for > > the front to back measurement, > > > > > although > > > > > > > > that is a common term to use > > for measuring other physical > > > > > items, for > > > > > > > > aquariums, because of the > > water, "depth" can easily be > > > > > > > misconstrued to > > > > > > > > be the depth of the water. > > This is why the standard for aquarium > > > > > > > > measurement is L x W x H > > (Length by Width by Height). I know the > > > > > > > > "width" part can be confusing > > also since that would be the long > > > > > > > sides > > > > > > > > of most aquarium where we > > commonly use the long sides as the > > > > > length > > > > > > > > and the front to back > > measurement as the width. > > > > > > > > Don't ask me who invented > > this standard. LOL > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > At least with the 30" x 12" > > footprint and only 23" tall and your > > > > > > > tank > > > > > > > > is still based on the same > > footprint as a 20G but at least > > > > > it's a > > > > > > > 20G > > > > > > > > LONG footprint instead of a > > regular 20G footprint. It's also not > > > > > > > > nearly as tall as what you > > originally said was a 30" tall > > > > > tank so > > > > > > > this > > > > > > > > makes your lighting more > > practical... BUT... you still DO NOT > > > > > > > need 5" > > > > > > > > to 7" of gravel. > > > > > > > > Still > > > > > > > > cut this back to 2" to 3". > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I do not recall if you ever > > listed details on your lighting > > > > > other > > > > > > > than > > > > > > > > saying you had two 65W > > fluorescent bulbs. Are they standard > > > > > > > > fluorescent bulbs... long > > single tubes with two pins on each > > > > > end? > > > > > > > Look > > > > > > > > on the bulbs for any item > > numbers, brand names, etc. and let us > > > > > > > know. > > > > > > > > From what I can see on the > > net, it looks like you could > > > > > either have > > > > > > > > 65W CFL's instead of standard > > fluorescent bulbs but they do also > > > > > > > have > > > > > > > > a T-10 65W Fluorescent tube. > > While they are both called 65W > > > > > (watt), > > > > > > > > the CFL's would put out 2-3 > > times more light (lumens) than > > > > > standard > > > > > > > > fluorescent tubes. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > > > > > > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny. > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>>> > > > blogspot.com > > > > <http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>>> > > blogspot.com> > > > > > > <http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>>> > > blogspot.com > > > <http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>>> > > blogspot.com>> > > > > (Links to any articles > > > > > > > > referenced in above reply are > > listed on the right side, > > > > > > > alphabetically > > > > > > > > under Labels and also under > > Archives by Year, > > > > > > > > Month) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > > > > > > From: AquaticLife@ > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > yahoogroups.com > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > > [mailto:AquaticLife@ > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > yahoogroups.com > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On Behalf Of > > Lainey > > > > > Alexander > > > > > > > > Sent: Thursday, October 15, > > 2009 8:38 PM > > > > > > > > To: AquaticLife@ > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > yahoogroups.com > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife% > > > > > 40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > > Subject: [AquaticLife] OOPS > > re green water > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I just realized that I > > completely goofed on these measurements > > > > > > > > (below), which is why > > everyone has been so adamant about my > > > > > crazy > > > > > > > tank > > > > > > > > shape! > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > The height is 23, the WIDTH > > is 30 and the depth is 12. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I'm so sorry to make everyone > > talk about something that was > > > > > > > incorrect > > > > > > > > this whole time. But now, can > > you all let me know if this is > > > > > a much > > > > > > > > more reasonable depth please? > > Does this change my bioload > > > > > issues at > > > > > > > > all? > > > > > > > > Does it > > > > > > > > change the appropriateness of > > my lights? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > In five weeks several of my > > plants are near the top of the > > > > > water, > > > > > > > so I > > > > > > > > think they must be fairly > > happy with the light. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > My apologies for being > > careless. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Lainey > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Tank measurements are 30 > > high, 23 wide and 12 deep. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Fluorescent lights, 2 > > @65 watts and 6700k - on 12 and off 12 > > > > > > > > which is > > > > > > > > > what I have been told my > > plants require... > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I used Activ-Flora > > gravel, and this contains non-nitrogen > > > > > > > fertilizer > > > > > > > > > plus "instant-cycling" > > bacteria > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Not dosing with any > > chemicals or ferts > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > *** > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have > > been removed] > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been > > removed] > > > > > > > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > > > > > > > > > ------------------------------------ > > > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when > > replying, Thank You. > > ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> > > ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> > > PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is > > NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of > > the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new > > subject (was re: old subject)" <- > > <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. > > , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. > > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. > > > > If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of > > unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by > > clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the home page. > > > > Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:aquaticlife-digest%40yahoogroups.com> > > to receive the digest, which includes up to 25 posts at a > > time in a single email > > > > Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:aquaticlife-nomail%40yahoogroups.com> > > for the No E-Mail option where you will still be able to > > read messages on the group and post replies. > > > > Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:aquaticlife-normal%40yahoogroups.com> > > to receive individual e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > mailto:AquaticLife-fullfeatured@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife-fullfeatured%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 43934	From: bill 1433	Date: 10/17/2009
Subject: Re: OOPS re green water

Why not? Might serve to clear things up for lots of folks, me included. Problems here with size still. I think more investigation on my part. Even Len's suggestion at taking with tube "with" may not help. Right size yes, but maybe wrong or not strong enough wattage. Result? I'm right back where I started from. More reading and more checking, this thing can't be this hard. I'm told even a twelve year old can have a planted tank. Ah to be young again! Bill --- On Sat, 10/17/09, Amber Berglund <arberglund@...> wrote: > From: Amber Berglund <arberglund@...> > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] OOPS re green water > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Date: Saturday, October 17, 2009, 3:13 PM > Picture of my light fixture? > > Amber > > bill 1433 wrote: > >  > > > > Hi Amber, > > > > Just wanted to ask, "Do you have any of these lights > posted in our > > photo section? Would you? > > > > Bill > > > > --- On Sat, 10/17/09, Amber Berglund <arberglund@... > > > <mailto:arberglund%40gmail.com>> wrote: > > > > > From: Amber Berglund <arberglund@... > > > <mailto:arberglund%40gmail.com>> > > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] OOPS re green water > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > Date: Saturday, October 17, 2009, 2:07 PM > > > Normally they carry longer ones, I > > > tried ordering that type of light > > > from DFS.com but it kept arriving broken no > matter how they > > > shipped it > > > (granted it had no protection around the bulbs so > they were > > > just banging > > > around in the fixture until it got here, and of > course they > > > arrived > > > broken). After the 2nd time arriving broken I > said > > > nevermind, sent it > > > back and waited for my refund (which took about a > month > > > *sigh*), then I > > > got a much better light from marinedepot.com and > it arrived > > > in perfect > > > condition and I LOVE the light better than the > one I > > > pointed out for > > > sale, but the one on sale is a decent light too, > just a > > > step down from > > > the one I ended up getting (which includes it's > own timer, > > > and legs to > > > prop the light fixture up, whereas the other one > just sets > > > on top of > > > your aquarium lid). > > > > > > Amber > > > > > > Donna Ransome wrote: > > > > > > > > That’s the fixture I have too on all > tanks, but my > > > fixtures are longer. > > > > > > > > _____ > > > > > > > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On > > > > Behalf Of Amber Berglund > > > > Sent: Friday, October 16, 2009 9:50 PM > > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] OOPS re green > water > > > > > > > > If you ever want to increase your lighting > even more > > > with CFL bulbs you > > > > can find better bulbs with a better light > spectrum. I > > > actually have the > > > > same bulbs in my light fixture, I use the > straight pin > > > on the fixture on > > > > my 55 gallon and the 125 gallon has square > pin lights. > > > I've found that > > > > there's a better selection for straight pin > bulbs on > > > marinedepot.com > > > > than square pin (and the prices are usually > better). > > > > Oh and while I'm talking about > marinedepot.com they > > > are running a sale > > > > on a light fixture that has CFL bulbs and > LED night > > > lighting all in one. > > > > They only go from 24-36 inches though, but > they are > > > all on sale. > > > > http://www.marinede > > > > > > <http://www.marinedepot.com/24_inch_2x65_Watt_Current_USA_PowerCompact_Dual_ > > > <http://www.marinedepot.com/24_inch_2x65_Watt_Current_USA_PowerCompact_Dual_> > > > > > > > > > <http://www.marinedepot.com/24_inch_2x65_Watt_Current_USA_PowerCompact_Dual_ > > > <http://www.marinedepot.com/24_inch_2x65_Watt_Current_USA_PowerCompact_Dual_>> > > > > > > > > > > Satellite_Fixture_24_Inch_Power_Compact_Light_Fixtures-Current_USA-CU01011-F > > > > ILTFIPCTF-CU01013-vi.html> > > > > > > > > > > pot.com/24_inch_2x65_Watt_Current_USA_PowerCompact_Dual_Satellite_Fixture_24 > > > > > > > > > > _Inch_Power_Compact_Light_Fixtures-Current_USA-CU01011-FILTFIPCTF-CU01013-vi > > > > .html > > > > > > > > Amber > > > > > > > > Lainey Alexander wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Thanks, Amber - they are tubes that > reach the > > > length of the tank. > > > > > > > > > > Lainey > > > > > http://www.grasslan <http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com > > <http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com> > > > > <http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com > > <http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com>>> > > > dsgouldians.com > > > > <http://www.grasslan <http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com > > <http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com> > > > > <http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com > > <http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com>>> > > > dsgouldians.com> > > > > > > > > > > On Oct 16, 2009, at 9:35 PM, Amber > Berglund > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > those are CFL bulbs, so you have > more than > > > enough lighting for your 37 > > > > > > gallon if you have 1 bulb on each > side of > > > the tank. > > > > > > > > > > > > Amber > > > > > > > > > > > > Lainey Alexander wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > All I can see is "coralife 65 > watt > > > 6700k" - each bulb has two tubes, > > > > > > > and they don't quite make a U > turn but > > > they are connected by a small > > > > > > > bridge that seems to be part > of the > > > bulb itself. Does this tell us > > > > > > > anything? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Lainey > > > > > > > http://www.grasslan <http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com > > <http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com> > > > > <http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com > > <http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com>>> > > > > dsgouldians.com > > > > > <http://www.grasslan <http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com > > <http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com> > > > > <http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com > > <http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com>>> > > > dsgouldians.com> > > > > <http:// > > > > > > www.grasslandsgouldians.com> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > On Oct 16, 2009, at 2:37 PM, > Lenny V. > > > aka GoldLenny wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Long straight tubes with > pins on > > > each end? Many other bulbs also > > > > > > > > have pins > > > > > > > > but CFL's only have them > on one > > > end and the tube usually makes > > > > > > a U- > > > > > > > > turn and > > > > > > > > comes back to the same > fitting. > > > They should have a brand and item > > > > > > > > number on > > > > > > > > them... or something > else... but > > > they are probably just standard > > > > > > > > fluorescent > > > > > > > > tubes. You would have to > turn the > > > fixture over and look at the > > > > > > > > bulbs... > > > > > > > > maybe even removing one > to look > > > for the writing on the glass on > > > > > > one > > > > > > > > end of > > > > > > > > the tube. It > might/should even > > > have a T-__ code which is a > > > > > > standard > > > > > > > > coding > > > > > > > > now for fluorescent > tubes. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > You need to know this > information > > > as, depending on the brand/type/ > > > > > > > > etc., you > > > > > > > > might have to replace > these bulbs > > > every six months or so. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > > > > > > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny. > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>>> > > > > blogspot.com > > > > > <http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>>> > > > blogspot.com> > > > > > > > <http://GoldLenny. > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>>> > > > blogspot.com > > > > <http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>>> > > > blogspot.com>> > > > > > > > > (Links to any articles > referenced > > > in above reply are listed on the > > > > > > > > right > > > > > > > > side, alphabetically > under Labels > > > and also under Archives by Year, > > > > > > > > Month) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -----Original > Message----- > > > > > > > > From: AquaticLife@ > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > yahoogroups.com > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > > [mailto:AquaticLife@ > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > yahoogroups.com > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On > > > > > > > > Behalf Of Lainey > Alexander > > > > > > > > Sent: Friday, October > 16, 2009 > > > 10:17 AM > > > > > > > > To: AquaticLife@ > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > yahoogroups.com > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > <mailto:AquaticLife% > > > > > > 40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > > Subject: Re: > [AquaticLife] OOPS re > > > green water > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Lenny - > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > As far as I know, I have > regular > > > standard fluorescents, they are > > > > > > > > the ones > > > > > > > > with the pins - 65 > watts, two > > > bulbs, 6700k each. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Lainey > > > > > > > > http://www.grasslan <http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com > > <http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com> > > > > <http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com > > <http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com>>> > > > > dsgouldians.com > > > > > <http://www.grasslan <http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com > > <http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com> > > > > <http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com > > <http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com>>> > > > dsgouldians.com> > > > > <http:// > > > > > > www.grasslandsgouldians.com> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > On Oct 16, 2009, at 1:16 > AM, Lenny > > > V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Lets see... my > first thoughts > > > would be... > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > http://images. > > > > <http://images.veer.com/IMG/PILL/MAI/MAI0002683_P.JPG > > <http://images.veer.com/IMG/PILL/MAI/MAI0002683_P.JPG> > > > > <http://images.veer.com/IMG/PILL/MAI/MAI0002683_P.JPG > > <http://images.veer.com/IMG/PILL/MAI/MAI0002683_P.JPG>>> > > > > veer.com/IMG/PILL/MAI/MAI0002683_P.JPG > > > > > <http://images. > > > > <http://images.veer.com/IMG/PILL/MAI/MAI0002683_P.JPG > > <http://images.veer.com/IMG/PILL/MAI/MAI0002683_P.JPG> > > > > <http://images.veer.com/IMG/PILL/MAI/MAI0002683_P.JPG > > <http://images.veer.com/IMG/PILL/MAI/MAI0002683_P.JPG>>> > > > > veer.com/IMG/PILL/MAI/MAI0002683_P.JPG> > > > > > > > <http://images. > > > > <http://images.veer.com/IMG/PILL/MAI/MAI0002683_P.JPG > > <http://images.veer.com/IMG/PILL/MAI/MAI0002683_P.JPG> > > > > <http://images.veer.com/IMG/PILL/MAI/MAI0002683_P.JPG > > <http://images.veer.com/IMG/PILL/MAI/MAI0002683_P.JPG>>> > > > > veer.com/IMG/PILL/MAI/MAI0002683_P.JPG > > > > > <http://images. > > > > <http://images.veer.com/IMG/PILL/MAI/MAI0002683_P.JPG > > <http://images.veer.com/IMG/PILL/MAI/MAI0002683_P.JPG> > > > > <http://images.veer.com/IMG/PILL/MAI/MAI0002683_P.JPG > > <http://images.veer.com/IMG/PILL/MAI/MAI0002683_P.JPG>>> > > > > > veer.com/IMG/PILL/MAI/MAI0002683_P.JPG>> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > (maybe without the > Parrot as > > > an eye witness... lol... ;-)) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > It's good to hear > you have a > > > 30" x 12" footprint but you need to > > > > > > > > quit > > > > > > > > > using the "depth" > term for > > > the front to back measurement, > > > > > > although > > > > > > > > > that is a common > term to use > > > for measuring other physical > > > > > > items, for > > > > > > > > > aquariums, because > of the > > > water, "depth" can easily be > > > > > > > > misconstrued to > > > > > > > > > be the depth of the > water. > > > This is why the standard for aquarium > > > > > > > > > measurement is L x > W x H > > > (Length by Width by Height). I know the > > > > > > > > > "width" part can be > confusing > > > also since that would be the long > > > > > > > > sides > > > > > > > > > of most aquarium > where we > > > commonly use the long sides as the > > > > > > length > > > > > > > > > and the front to > back > > > measurement as the width. > > > > > > > > > Don't ask me who > invented > > > this standard. LOL > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > At least with the > 30" x 12" > > > footprint and only 23" tall and your > > > > > > > > tank > > > > > > > > > is still based on > the same > > > footprint as a 20G but at least > > > > > > it's a > > > > > > > > 20G > > > > > > > > > LONG footprint > instead of a > > > regular 20G footprint. It's also not > > > > > > > > > nearly as tall as > what you > > > originally said was a 30" tall > > > > > > tank so > > > > > > > > this > > > > > > > > > makes your lighting > more > > > practical... BUT... you still DO NOT > > > > > > > > need 5" > > > > > > > > > to 7" of gravel. > > > > > > > > > Still > > > > > > > > > cut this back to 2" > to 3". > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I do not recall if > you ever > > > listed details on your lighting > > > > > > other > > > > > > > > than > > > > > > > > > saying you had two > 65W > > > fluorescent bulbs. Are they standard > > > > > > > > > fluorescent > bulbs... long > > > single tubes with two pins on each > > > > > > end? > > > > > > > > Look > > > > > > > > > on the bulbs for > any item > > > numbers, brand names, etc. and let us > > > > > > > > know. > > > > > > > > > From what I can see > on the > > > net, it looks like you could > > > > > > either have > > > > > > > > > 65W CFL's instead > of standard > > > fluorescent bulbs but they do also > > > > > > > > have > > > > > > > > > a T-10 65W > Fluorescent tube. > > > While they are both called 65W > > > > > > (watt), > > > > > > > > > the CFL's would put > out 2-3 > > > times more light (lumens) than > > > > > > standard > > > > > > > > > fluorescent tubes. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > > > > > > > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny. > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>>> > > > > blogspot.com > > > > > <http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>>> > > > blogspot.com> > > > > > > > <http://GoldLenny. > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>>> > > > blogspot.com > > > > <http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>>> > > > blogspot.com>> > > > > > (Links to any articles > > > > > > > > > referenced in above > reply are > > > listed on the right side, > > > > > > > > alphabetically > > > > > > > > > under Labels and > also under > > > Archives by Year, > > > > > > > > > Month) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -----Original > Message----- > > > > > > > > > From: AquaticLife@ > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > yahoogroups.com > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > > > > [mailto:AquaticLife@ > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > yahoogroups.com > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On > Behalf Of > > > Lainey > > > > > > Alexander > > > > > > > > > Sent: Thursday, > October 15, > > > 2009 8:38 PM > > > > > > > > > To: AquaticLife@ > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > yahoogroups.com > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > <mailto:AquaticLife% > > > > > > 40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > > > Subject: > [AquaticLife] OOPS > > > re green water > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I just realized > that I > > > completely goofed on these measurements > > > > > > > > > (below), which is > why > > > everyone has been so adamant about my > > > > > > crazy > > > > > > > > tank > > > > > > > > > shape! > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > The height is 23, > the WIDTH > > > is 30 and the depth is 12. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I'm so sorry to > make everyone > > > talk about something that was > > > > > > > > incorrect > > > > > > > > > this whole time. > But now, can > > > you all let me know if this is > > > > > > a much > > > > > > > > > more reasonable > depth please? > > > Does this change my bioload > > > > > > issues at > > > > > > > > > all? > > > > > > > > > Does it > > > > > > > > > change the > appropriateness of > > > my lights? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > In five weeks > several of my > > > plants are near the top of the > > > > > > water, > > > > > > > > so I > > > > > > > > > think they must be > fairly > > > happy with the light. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > My apologies for > being > > > careless. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Lainey > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Tank > measurements are 30 > > > high, 23 wide and 12 deep. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Fluorescent > lights, 2 > > > @65 watts and 6700k - on 12 and off 12 > > > > > > > > > which is > > > > > > > > > > what I have > been told my > > > plants require... > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I used > Activ-Flora > > > gravel, and this contains non-nitrogen > > > > > > > > fertilizer > > > > > > > > > > plus > "instant-cycling" > > > bacteria > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Not dosing > with any > > > chemicals or ferts > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > *** > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this > message have > > > been removed] > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have > been > > > removed] > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been > removed] > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ------------------------------------ > > > > > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it > when > > > replying, Thank You. > > > > ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> > > > ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , > .·´¯`·..><((((º> > > > PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT > that is > > > NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the > TOPIC of > > > the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE > -> i.e. "new > > > subject (was re: old subject)" <- > > > > <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. > > > , > .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. > > > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this > matter. > > > > > > If you do not want all of the groups emails, > instead of > > > unsubscribing, you can change your delivery > option by > > > clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the home > page. > > > > > > Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com > > > <mailto:aquaticlife-digest%40yahoogroups.com> > > > to receive the digest, which includes up to 25 > posts at a > > > time in a single email > > > > > > Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com > > > <mailto:aquaticlife-nomail%40yahoogroups.com> > > > for the No E-Mail option where you will still be > able to > > > read messages on the group and post replies. > > > > > > Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com > > > <mailto:aquaticlife-normal%40yahoogroups.com> > > > to receive individual e-mails.Yahoo! Groups > Links > > > > > > > > >     mailto:AquaticLife-fullfeatured@yahoogroups.com > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife-fullfeatured%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ------------------------------------ > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when > replying, Thank You. > ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> > ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> > PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is > NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of > the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new > subject (was re: old subject)" <- > <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. > , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. > > If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of > unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by > clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the home page.  > > Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com > to receive the digest, which includes up to 25 posts at a > time in a single email > > Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com > for the No E-Mail option where you will still be able to > read messages on the group and post replies. > > Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com > to receive individual e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links > > >     mailto:AquaticLife-fullfeatured@yahoogroups.com > > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 43935	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 10/17/2009
Subject: Re: OOPS re green water

I use CFL light bulbs mostly. I think one of my 10 gallon tanks has a smaller CFL bulb too... The only one that has regular fluorescents is my 55 gallon that I got as a kit from walmart. So walmart would carry replacement lighting for it, but it's not HO or VHO lights, just regular, and honestly I'm not even sure what the watts are, but I'm probably around 1 watt per gallon, which is why it has mostly crypts a couple aponogettons, java fern and 1 sword of some type. They're all low light plants. Have you been thinking about switching to a planted tank lately Bill? I think you said at one time that the plants you have are all fake right now. If you want to switch over it's not going to be easy, you will have to do a tank tear down so you have a decent substrate in it instead of just gravel. Every time I've tried just using gravel all my plants started to die off, I gave up and switched all but my 10 gallon tanks to Walstad natural planted tanks. One trick to doing this is picking smaller gravel (like smaller than a frozen pea, but not much smaller than that), I have what is called "pea gravel" from the local hardware store and it's just large enough and heavy enough that the plants have a hard time growing up and through the gravel if it's sprouting a new/baby plant. The gravel seems just a little too large. In the 125 gallon tank I have the normal "rainbow gravel" that you see at most LFS/walmart for use in fish tanks, and the plants grow much faster and spread much faster (such as my vals, darn thing is trying to take over but in the 55 gallon with the larger gravel it doesn't even take root, it's floating and spreading on runners through the tank, but none of the runners are taking root into the gravel/soil, I think they can't get through the gravel or something). Did your light fixture come as a kit, or was it used? Do you have any info on it so we could find out what bulbs you need to replace it with? Amber bill 1433 wrote: > > > Why not? Might serve to clear things up for lots > of folks, me included. > > Problems here with size still. I think more investigation on > my part. Even Len's suggestion at taking with tube "with" may not > help. Right size yes, but maybe wrong or not strong enough wattage. > Result? I'm right back where I started from. More reading and > more checking, this thing can't be this hard. I'm told even a > twelve year old can have a planted tank. Ah to be young again! > > Bill > > --- On Sat, 10/17/09, Amber Berglund <arberglund@... > <mailto:arberglund%40gmail.com>> wrote: > > > From: Amber Berglund <arberglund@... > <mailto:arberglund%40gmail.com>> > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] OOPS re green water > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > Date: Saturday, October 17, 2009, 3:13 PM > > Picture of my light fixture? > > > > Amber > > > > bill 1433 wrote: > > > > > > > > > Hi Amber, > > > > > > Just wanted to ask, "Do you have any of these lights > > posted in our > > > photo section? Would you? > > > > > > Bill > > > > > > --- On Sat, 10/17/09, Amber Berglund <arberglund@... > <mailto:arberglund%40gmail.com> > > > > > <mailto:arberglund%40gmail.com>> wrote: > > > > > > > From: Amber Berglund <arberglund@... > <mailto:arberglund%40gmail.com> > > > > > <mailto:arberglund%40gmail.com>> > > > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] OOPS re green water > > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > Date: Saturday, October 17, 2009, 2:07 PM > > > > Normally they carry longer ones, I > > > > tried ordering that type of light > > > > from DFS.com but it kept arriving broken no > > matter how they > > > > shipped it > > > > (granted it had no protection around the bulbs so > > they were > > > > just banging > > > > around in the fixture until it got here, and of > > course they > > > > arrived > > > > broken). After the 2nd time arriving broken I > > said > > > > nevermind, sent it > > > > back and waited for my refund (which took about a > > month > > > > *sigh*), then I > > > > got a much better light from marinedepot.com and > > it arrived > > > > in perfect > > > > condition and I LOVE the light better than the > > one I > > > > pointed out for > > > > sale, but the one on sale is a decent light too, > > just a > > > > step down from > > > > the one I ended up getting (which includes it's > > own timer, > > > > and legs to > > > > prop the light fixture up, whereas the other one > > just sets > > > > on top of > > > > your aquarium lid). > > > > > > > > Amber > > > > > > > > Donna Ransome wrote: > > > > > > > > > > That’s the fixture I have too on all > > tanks, but my > > > > fixtures are longer. > > > > > > > > > > _____ > > > > > > > > > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On > > > > > Behalf Of Amber Berglund > > > > > Sent: Friday, October 16, 2009 9:50 PM > > > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] OOPS re green > > water > > > > > > > > > > If you ever want to increase your lighting > > even more > > > > with CFL bulbs you > > > > > can find better bulbs with a better light > > spectrum. I > > > > actually have the > > > > > same bulbs in my light fixture, I use the > > straight pin > > > > on the fixture on > > > > > my 55 gallon and the 125 gallon has square > > pin lights. > > > > I've found that > > > > > there's a better selection for straight pin > > bulbs on > > > > marinedepot.com > > > > > than square pin (and the prices are usually > > better). > > > > > Oh and while I'm talking about > > marinedepot.com they > > > > are running a sale > > > > > on a light fixture that has CFL bulbs and > > LED night > > > > lighting all in one. > > > > > They only go from 24-36 inches though, but > > they are > > > > all on sale. > > > > > http://www.marinede > > > > > > > > > <http://www.marinedepot.com/24_inch_2x65_Watt_Current_USA_PowerCompact_Dual_ > <http://www.marinedepot.com/24_inch_2x65_Watt_Current_USA_PowerCompact_Dual_> > > > > > > <http://www.marinedepot.com/24_inch_2x65_Watt_Current_USA_PowerCompact_Dual_ > <http://www.marinedepot.com/24_inch_2x65_Watt_Current_USA_PowerCompact_Dual_>> > > > > > > > > > > > > > <http://www.marinedepot.com/24_inch_2x65_Watt_Current_USA_PowerCompact_Dual_ > <http://www.marinedepot.com/24_inch_2x65_Watt_Current_USA_PowerCompact_Dual_> > > > > > > <http://www.marinedepot.com/24_inch_2x65_Watt_Current_USA_PowerCompact_Dual_ > <http://www.marinedepot.com/24_inch_2x65_Watt_Current_USA_PowerCompact_Dual_>>> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Satellite_Fixture_24_Inch_Power_Compact_Light_Fixtures-Current_USA-CU01011-F > > > > > ILTFIPCTF-CU01013-vi.html> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > pot.com/24_inch_2x65_Watt_Current_USA_PowerCompact_Dual_Satellite_Fixture_24 > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > _Inch_Power_Compact_Light_Fixtures-Current_USA-CU01011-FILTFIPCTF-CU01013-vi > > > > > .html > > > > > > > > > > Amber > > > > > > > > > > Lainey Alexander wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Thanks, Amber - they are tubes that > > reach the > > > > length of the tank. > > > > > > > > > > > > Lainey > > > > > > http://www.grasslan <http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com > <http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com> > > > <http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com > <http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com>> > > > > > <http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com > <http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com> > > > <http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com > <http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com>>>> > > > > dsgouldians.com > > > > > <http://www.grasslan <http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com > <http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com> > > > <http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com > <http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com>> > > > > > <http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com > <http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com> > > > <http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com > <http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com>>>> > > > > dsgouldians.com> > > > > > > > > > > > > On Oct 16, 2009, at 9:35 PM, Amber > > Berglund > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > those are CFL bulbs, so you have > > more than > > > > enough lighting for your 37 > > > > > > > gallon if you have 1 bulb on each > > side of > > > > the tank. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Amber > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Lainey Alexander wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > All I can see is "coralife 65 > > watt > > > > 6700k" - each bulb has two tubes, > > > > > > > > and they don't quite make a U > > turn but > > > > they are connected by a small > > > > > > > > bridge that seems to be part > > of the > > > > bulb itself. Does this tell us > > > > > > > > anything? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Lainey > > > > > > > > http://www.grasslan <http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com > <http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com> > > > <http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com > <http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com>> > > > > > <http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com > <http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com> > > > <http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com > <http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com>>>> > > > > > dsgouldians.com > > > > > > <http://www.grasslan <http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com > <http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com> > > > <http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com > <http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com>> > > > > > <http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com > <http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com> > > > <http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com > <http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com>>>> > > > > dsgouldians.com> > > > > > <http:// > > > > > > > www.grasslandsgouldians.com> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > On Oct 16, 2009, at 2:37 PM, > > Lenny V. > > > > aka GoldLenny wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Long straight tubes with > > pins on > > > > each end? Many other bulbs also > > > > > > > > > have pins > > > > > > > > > but CFL's only have them > > on one > > > > end and the tube usually makes > > > > > > > a U- > > > > > > > > > turn and > > > > > > > > > comes back to the same > > fitting. > > > > They should have a brand and item > > > > > > > > > number on > > > > > > > > > them... or something > > else... but > > > > they are probably just standard > > > > > > > > > fluorescent > > > > > > > > > tubes. You would have to > > turn the > > > > fixture over and look at the > > > > > > > > > bulbs... > > > > > > > > > maybe even removing one > > to look > > > > for the writing on the glass on > > > > > > > one > > > > > > > > > end of > > > > > > > > > the tube. It > > might/should even > > > > have a T-__ code which is a > > > > > > > standard > > > > > > > > > coding > > > > > > > > > now for fluorescent > > tubes. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > You need to know this > > information > > > > as, depending on the brand/type/ > > > > > > > > > etc., you > > > > > > > > > might have to replace > > these bulbs > > > > every six months or so. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > > > > > > > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny. > > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>> > > > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>>>> > > > > > blogspot.com > > > > > > <http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>> > > > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>>>> > > > > blogspot.com> > > > > > > > > <http://GoldLenny. > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>> > > > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>>>> > > > > blogspot.com > > > > > <http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>> > > > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>>>> > > > > blogspot.com>> > > > > > > > > > (Links to any articles > > referenced > > > > in above reply are listed on the > > > > > > > > > right > > > > > > > > > side, alphabetically > > under Labels > > > > and also under Archives by Year, > > > > > > > > > Month) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -----Original > > Message----- > > > > > > > > > From: AquaticLife@ > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > yahoogroups.com > > > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > > > [mailto:AquaticLife@ > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > yahoogroups.com > > > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On > > > > > > > > > Behalf Of Lainey > > Alexander > > > > > > > > > Sent: Friday, October > > 16, 2009 > > > > 10:17 AM > > > > > > > > > To: AquaticLife@ > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > yahoogroups.com > > > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife% > > > > > > > 40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > > > Subject: Re: > > [AquaticLife] OOPS re > > > > green water > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Lenny - > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > As far as I know, I have > > regular > > > > standard fluorescents, they are > > > > > > > > > the ones > > > > > > > > > with the pins - 65 > > watts, two > > > > bulbs, 6700k each. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Lainey > > > > > > > > > http://www.grasslan > <http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com <http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com> > > > <http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com > <http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com>> > > > > > <http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com > <http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com> > > > <http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com > <http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com>>>> > > > > > dsgouldians.com > > > > > > <http://www.grasslan <http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com > <http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com> > > > <http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com > <http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com>> > > > > > <http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com > <http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com> > > > <http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com > <http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com>>>> > > > > dsgouldians.com> > > > > > <http:// > > > > > > > www.grasslandsgouldians.com> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > On Oct 16, 2009, at 1:16 > > AM, Lenny > > > > V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Lets see... my > > first thoughts > > > > would be... > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > http://images. > > > > > <http://images.veer.com/IMG/PILL/MAI/MAI0002683_P.JPG > <http://images.veer.com/IMG/PILL/MAI/MAI0002683_P.JPG> > > > <http://images.veer.com/IMG/PILL/MAI/MAI0002683_P.JPG > <http://images.veer.com/IMG/PILL/MAI/MAI0002683_P.JPG>> > > > > > <http://images.veer.com/IMG/PILL/MAI/MAI0002683_P.JPG > <http://images.veer.com/IMG/PILL/MAI/MAI0002683_P.JPG> > > > <http://images.veer.com/IMG/PILL/MAI/MAI0002683_P.JPG > <http://images.veer.com/IMG/PILL/MAI/MAI0002683_P.JPG>>>> > > > > > veer.com/IMG/PILL/MAI/MAI0002683_P.JPG > > > > > > <http://images. > > > > > <http://images.veer.com/IMG/PILL/MAI/MAI0002683_P.JPG > <http://images.veer.com/IMG/PILL/MAI/MAI0002683_P.JPG> > > > <http://images.veer.com/IMG/PILL/MAI/MAI0002683_P.JPG > <http://images.veer.com/IMG/PILL/MAI/MAI0002683_P.JPG>> > > > > > <http://images.veer.com/IMG/PILL/MAI/MAI0002683_P.JPG > <http://images.veer.com/IMG/PILL/MAI/MAI0002683_P.JPG> > > > <http://images.veer.com/IMG/PILL/MAI/MAI0002683_P.JPG > <http://images.veer.com/IMG/PILL/MAI/MAI0002683_P.JPG>>>> > > > > > veer.com/IMG/PILL/MAI/MAI0002683_P.JPG> > > > > > > > > <http://images. > > > > > <http://images.veer.com/IMG/PILL/MAI/MAI0002683_P.JPG > <http://images.veer.com/IMG/PILL/MAI/MAI0002683_P.JPG> > > > <http://images.veer.com/IMG/PILL/MAI/MAI0002683_P.JPG > <http://images.veer.com/IMG/PILL/MAI/MAI0002683_P.JPG>> > > > > > <http://images.veer.com/IMG/PILL/MAI/MAI0002683_P.JPG > <http://images.veer.com/IMG/PILL/MAI/MAI0002683_P.JPG> > > > <http://images.veer.com/IMG/PILL/MAI/MAI0002683_P.JPG > <http://images.veer.com/IMG/PILL/MAI/MAI0002683_P.JPG>>>> > > > > > veer.com/IMG/PILL/MAI/MAI0002683_P.JPG > > > > > > <http://images. > > > > > <http://images.veer.com/IMG/PILL/MAI/MAI0002683_P.JPG > <http://images.veer.com/IMG/PILL/MAI/MAI0002683_P.JPG> > > > <http://images.veer.com/IMG/PILL/MAI/MAI0002683_P.JPG > <http://images.veer.com/IMG/PILL/MAI/MAI0002683_P.JPG>> > > > > > <http://images.veer.com/IMG/PILL/MAI/MAI0002683_P.JPG > <http://images.veer.com/IMG/PILL/MAI/MAI0002683_P.JPG> > > > <http://images.veer.com/IMG/PILL/MAI/MAI0002683_P.JPG > <http://images.veer.com/IMG/PILL/MAI/MAI0002683_P.JPG>>>> > > > > > > > veer.com/IMG/PILL/MAI/MAI0002683_P.JPG>> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > (maybe without the > > Parrot as > > > > an eye witness... lol... ;-)) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > It's good to hear > > you have a > > > > 30" x 12" footprint but you need to > > > > > > > > > quit > > > > > > > > > > using the "depth" > > term for > > > > the front to back measurement, > > > > > > > although > > > > > > > > > > that is a common > > term to use > > > > for measuring other physical > > > > > > > items, for > > > > > > > > > > aquariums, because > > of the > > > > water, "depth" can easily be > > > > > > > > > misconstrued to > > > > > > > > > > be the depth of the > > water. > > > > This is why the standard for aquarium > > > > > > > > > > measurement is L x > > W x H > > > > (Length by Width by Height). I know the > > > > > > > > > > "width" part can be > > confusing > > > > also since that would be the long > > > > > > > > > sides > > > > > > > > > > of most aquarium > > where we > > > > commonly use the long sides as the > > > > > > > length > > > > > > > > > > and the front to > > back > > > > measurement as the width. > > > > > > > > > > Don't ask me who > > invented > > > > this standard. LOL > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > At least with the > > 30" x 12" > > > > footprint and only 23" tall and your > > > > > > > > > tank > > > > > > > > > > is still based on > > the same > > > > footprint as a 20G but at least > > > > > > > it's a > > > > > > > > > 20G > > > > > > > > > > LONG footprint > > instead of a > > > > regular 20G footprint. It's also not > > > > > > > > > > nearly as tall as > > what you > > > > originally said was a 30" tall > > > > > > > tank so > > > > > > > > > this > > > > > > > > > > makes your lighting > > more > > > > practical... BUT... you still DO NOT > > > > > > > > > need 5" > > > > > > > > > > to 7" of gravel. > > > > > > > > > > Still > > > > > > > > > > cut this back to 2" > > to 3". > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I do not recall if > > you ever > > > > listed details on your lighting > > > > > > > other > > > > > > > > > than > > > > > > > > > > saying you had two > > 65W > > > > fluorescent bulbs. Are they standard > > > > > > > > > > fluorescent > > bulbs... long > > > > single tubes with two pins on each > > > > > > > end? > > > > > > > > > Look > > > > > > > > > > on the bulbs for > > any item > > > > numbers, brand names, etc. and let us > > > > > > > > > know. > > > > > > > > > > From what I can see > > on the > > > > net, it looks like you could > > > > > > > either have > > > > > > > > > > 65W CFL's instead > > of standard > > > > fluorescent bulbs but they do also > > > > > > > > > have > > > > > > > > > > a T-10 65W > > Fluorescent tube. > > > > While they are both called 65W > > > > > > > (watt), > > > > > > > > > > the CFL's would put > > out 2-3 > > > > times more light (lumens) than > > > > > > > standard > > > > > > > > > > fluorescent tubes. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > > > > > > > > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny. > > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>> > > > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>>>> > > > > > blogspot.com > > > > > > <http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>> > > > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>>>> > > > > blogspot.com> > > > > > > > > <http://GoldLenny. > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>> > > > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>>>> > > > > blogspot.com > > > > > <http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>> > > > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>>>> > > > > blogspot.com>> > > > > > > (Links to any articles > > > > > > > > > > referenced in above > > reply are > > > > listed on the right side, > > > > > > > > > alphabetically > > > > > > > > > > under Labels and > > also under > > > > Archives by Year, > > > > > > > > > > Month) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -----Original > > Message----- > > > > > > > > > > From: AquaticLife@ > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > yahoogroups.com > > > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > > > > > > [mailto:AquaticLife@ > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > yahoogroups.com > > > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On > > Behalf Of > > > > Lainey > > > > > > > Alexander > > > > > > > > > > Sent: Thursday, > > October 15, > > > > 2009 8:38 PM > > > > > > > > > > To: AquaticLife@ > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > yahoogroups.com > > > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife% > > > > > > > 40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > > > > Subject: > > [AquaticLife] OOPS > > > > re green water > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I just realized > > that I > > > > completely goofed on these measurements > > > > > > > > > > (below), which is > > why > > > > everyone has been so adamant about my > > > > > > > crazy > > > > > > > > > tank > > > > > > > > > > shape! > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > The height is 23, > > the WIDTH > > > > is 30 and the depth is 12. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I'm so sorry to > > make everyone > > > > talk about something that was > > > > > > > > > incorrect > > > > > > > > > > this whole time. > > But now, can > > > > you all let me know if this is > > > > > > > a much > > > > > > > > > > more reasonable > > depth please? > > > > Does this change my bioload > > > > > > > issues at > > > > > > > > > > all? > > > > > > > > > > Does it > > > > > > > > > > change the > > appropriateness of > > > > my lights? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > In five weeks > > several of my > > > > plants are near the top of the > > > > > > > water, > > > > > > > > > so I > > > > > > > > > > think they must be > > fairly > > > > happy with the light. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > My apologies for > > being > > > > careless. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Lainey > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Tank > > measurements are 30 > > > > high, 23 wide and 12 deep. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Fluorescent > > lights, 2 > > > > @65 watts and 6700k - on 12 and off 12 > > > > > > > > > > which is > > > > > > > > > > > what I have > > been told my > > > > plants require... > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I used > > Activ-Flora > > > > gravel, and this contains non-nitrogen > > > > > > > > > fertilizer > > > > > > > > > > > plus > > "instant-cycling" > > > > bacteria > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Not dosing > > with any > > > > chemicals or ferts > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > *** > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this > > message have > > > > been removed] > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have > > been > > > > removed] > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been > > removed] > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ------------------------------------ > > > > > > > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it > > when > > > > replying, Thank You. > > > > > > ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> > > > > ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , > > .·´¯`·..><((((º> > > > > PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT > > that is > > > > NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the > > TOPIC of > > > > the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE > > -> i.e. "new > > > > subject (was re: old subject)" <- > > > > > > <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. > > > > , > > .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. > > > > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this > > matter. > > > > > > > > If you do not want all of the groups emails, > > instead of > > > > unsubscribing, you can change your delivery > > option by > > > > clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the home > > page. > > > > > > > > Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:aquaticlife-digest%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > <mailto:aquaticlife-digest%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > to receive the digest, which includes up to 25 > > posts at a > > > > time in a single email > > > > > > > > Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:aquaticlife-nomail%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > <mailto:aquaticlife-nomail%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > for the No E-Mail option where you will still be > > able to > > > > read messages on the group and post replies. > > > > > > > > Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:aquaticlife-normal%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > <mailto:aquaticlife-normal%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > to receive individual e-mails.Yahoo! Groups > > Links > > > > > > > > > > > > mailto:AquaticLife-fullfeatured@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife-fullfeatured%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife-fullfeatured%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ------------------------------------ > > > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when > > replying, Thank You. > > ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> > > ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> > > PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is > > NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of > > the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new > > subject (was re: old subject)" <- > > <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. > > , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. > > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. > > > > If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of > > unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by > > clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the home page. > > > > Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:aquaticlife-digest%40yahoogroups.com> > > to receive the digest, which includes up to 25 posts at a > > time in a single email > > > > Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:aquaticlife-nomail%40yahoogroups.com> > > for the No E-Mail option where you will still be able to > > read messages on the group and post replies. > > > > Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:aquaticlife-normal%40yahoogroups.com> > > to receive individual e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > mailto:AquaticLife-fullfeatured@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife-fullfeatured%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 43936	From: bill 1433	Date: 10/17/2009
Subject: Re: OOPS re green water

Bear with me here Amber. I'm going to try answering using MSWord and then cut and paste over to group to make sure I answer all your questions in the order that you asked them. Now here is an interesting play on words. Most times when a person says bulb you think of screwing it in, as opposed to clipping as in a tube, correct? I have been entertaining the planted tank concept for a while and most recently had yet another failure with it. This was mainly, again because of, not enough light and incorrect light. Also you may consider for here on out, when we are talking about the tank I would be working with its size is a standard 20-gallon long. As I mentioned, it does have a hood/cover from AGA. However, the 17-watt tube, even at the 12 1/2" depth of this tank is not enough to insure good or any plant growth. The last plants I tried were just plain simple water sprite. Substrate wise, although my size it good, over-all I'm told that for these type of tanks to be successful another product is better but it's proper name eludes me at the moment. Again the light fixture came complete with a hood, which has a glass insert on top. The light fixture then fits on top of this. It is a 17-watt tube not bulb. Right now the tank is running as a "Q" tank, stripped with no gravel and a PF and sponge filter running. With all the problems with fish that I had before, at this point I'm not sure I want to give up the security of having one if you know what I mean. This is just thinking out loud at this point. Bill --- On Sat, 10/17/09, Amber Berglund <arberglund@...> wrote: > From: Amber Berglund <arberglund@...> > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] OOPS re green water > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Date: Saturday, October 17, 2009, 5:26 PM > I use CFL light bulbs mostly. I think > one of my 10 gallon tanks has a > smaller CFL bulb too... The only one that has regular > fluorescents is my > 55 gallon that I got as a kit from walmart. So walmart > would carry > replacement lighting for it, but it's not HO or VHO lights, > just > regular, and honestly I'm not even sure what the watts are, > but I'm > probably around 1 watt per gallon, which is why it has > mostly crypts a > couple aponogettons, java fern and 1 sword of some type. > They're all low > light plants. > > Have you been thinking about switching to a planted tank > lately Bill? I > think you said at one time that the plants you have are all > fake right now. > > If you want to switch over it's not going to be easy, you > will have to > do a tank tear down so you have a decent substrate in it > instead of just > gravel. Every time I've tried just using gravel all my > plants started to > die off, I gave up and switched all but my 10 gallon tanks > to Walstad > natural planted tanks. One trick to doing this is picking > smaller gravel > (like smaller than a frozen pea, but not much smaller than > that), I have > what is called "pea gravel" from the local hardware store > and it's just > large enough and heavy enough that the plants have a hard > time growing > up and through the gravel if it's sprouting a new/baby > plant. The gravel > seems just a little too large. In the 125 gallon tank I > have the normal > "rainbow gravel" that you see at most LFS/walmart for use > in fish tanks, > and the plants grow much faster and spread much faster > (such as my vals, > darn thing is trying to take over but in the 55 gallon with > the larger > gravel it doesn't even take root, it's floating and > spreading on runners > through the tank, but none of the runners are taking root > into the > gravel/soil, I think they can't get through the gravel or > something). > > Did your light fixture come as a kit, or was it used? Do > you have any > info on it so we could find out what bulbs you need to > replace it with? > > Amber > > bill 1433 wrote: > >  > > > > Why not? Might serve to clear things up for lots > > of folks, me included. > > > > Problems here with size still. I think more > investigation on > > my part. Even Len's suggestion at taking with tube > "with" may not > > help. Right size yes, but maybe wrong or not strong > enough wattage. > > Result? I'm right back where I started from. More > reading and > > more checking, this thing can't be this hard. I'm told > even a > > twelve year old can have a planted tank. Ah to be > young again! > > > > Bill > > > > --- On Sat, 10/17/09, Amber Berglund <arberglund@... > > > <mailto:arberglund%40gmail.com>> wrote: > > > > > From: Amber Berglund <arberglund@... > > > <mailto:arberglund%40gmail.com>> > > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] OOPS re green water > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > Date: Saturday, October 17, 2009, 3:13 PM > > > Picture of my light fixture? > > > > > > Amber > > > > > > bill 1433 wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > Hi Amber, > > > > > > > > Just wanted to ask, "Do you have any of > these lights > > > posted in our > > > > photo section? Would you? > > > > > > > > Bill > > > > > > > > --- On Sat, 10/17/09, Amber Berglund <arberglund@... > > > <mailto:arberglund%40gmail.com> > > > > > > > <mailto:arberglund%40gmail.com>> > wrote: > > > > > > > > > From: Amber Berglund <arberglund@... > > > <mailto:arberglund%40gmail.com> > > > > > > > <mailto:arberglund%40gmail.com>> > > > > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] OOPS re > green water > > > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > Date: Saturday, October 17, 2009, 2:07 > PM > > > > > Normally they carry longer ones, I > > > > > tried ordering that type of light > > > > > from DFS.com but it kept arriving > broken no > > > matter how they > > > > > shipped it > > > > > (granted it had no protection around > the bulbs so > > > they were > > > > > just banging > > > > > around in the fixture until it got > here, and of > > > course they > > > > > arrived > > > > > broken). After the 2nd time arriving > broken I > > > said > > > > > nevermind, sent it > > > > > back and waited for my refund (which > took about a > > > month > > > > > *sigh*), then I > > > > > got a much better light from > marinedepot.com and > > > it arrived > > > > > in perfect > > > > > condition and I LOVE the light better > than the > > > one I > > > > > pointed out for > > > > > sale, but the one on sale is a decent > light too, > > > just a > > > > > step down from > > > > > the one I ended up getting (which > includes it's > > > own timer, > > > > > and legs to > > > > > prop the light fixture up, whereas the > other one > > > just sets > > > > > on top of > > > > > your aquarium lid). > > > > > > > > > > Amber > > > > > > > > > > Donna Ransome wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > Thatﾃ｢竄ｬ邃｢s the > fixture I have too on all > > > tanks, but my > > > > > fixtures are longer. > > > > > > > > > > > > _____ > > > > > > > > > > > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On > > > > > > Behalf Of Amber Berglund > > > > > > Sent: Friday, October 16, 2009 > 9:50 PM > > > > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] OOPS re > green > > > water > > > > > > > > > > > > If you ever want to increase your > lighting > > > even more > > > > > with CFL bulbs you > > > > > > can find better bulbs with a > better light > > > spectrum. I > > > > > actually have the > > > > > > same bulbs in my light fixture, I > use the > > > straight pin > > > > > on the fixture on > > > > > > my 55 gallon and the 125 gallon > has square > > > pin lights. > > > > > I've found that > > > > > > there's a better selection for > straight pin > > > bulbs on > > > > > marinedepot.com > > > > > > than square pin (and the prices > are usually > > > better). > > > > > > Oh and while I'm talking about > > > marinedepot.com they > > > > > are running a sale > > > > > > on a light fixture that has CFL > bulbs and > > > LED night > > > > > lighting all in one. > > > > > > They only go from 24-36 inches > though, but > > > they are > > > > > all on sale. > > > > > > http://www.marinede > > > > > > > > > > > > <http://www.marinedepot.com/24_inch_2x65_Watt_Current_USA_PowerCompact_Dual_ > > > <http://www.marinedepot.com/24_inch_2x65_Watt_Current_USA_PowerCompact_Dual_> > > > > > > > > > <http://www.marinedepot.com/24_inch_2x65_Watt_Current_USA_PowerCompact_Dual_ > > > <http://www.marinedepot.com/24_inch_2x65_Watt_Current_USA_PowerCompact_Dual_>> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > <http://www.marinedepot.com/24_inch_2x65_Watt_Current_USA_PowerCompact_Dual_ > > > <http://www.marinedepot.com/24_inch_2x65_Watt_Current_USA_PowerCompact_Dual_> > > > > > > > > > <http://www.marinedepot.com/24_inch_2x65_Watt_Current_USA_PowerCompact_Dual_ > > > <http://www.marinedepot.com/24_inch_2x65_Watt_Current_USA_PowerCompact_Dual_>>> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Satellite_Fixture_24_Inch_Power_Compact_Light_Fixtures-Current_USA-CU01011-F > > > > > > ILTFIPCTF-CU01013-vi.html> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > pot.com/24_inch_2x65_Watt_Current_USA_PowerCompact_Dual_Satellite_Fixture_24 > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > _Inch_Power_Compact_Light_Fixtures-Current_USA-CU01011-FILTFIPCTF-CU01013-vi > > > > > > .html > > > > > > > > > > > > Amber > > > > > > > > > > > > Lainey Alexander wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Thanks, Amber - they are > tubes that > > > reach the > > > > > length of the tank. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Lainey > > > > > > > http://www.grasslan <http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com > > <http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com> > > > > <http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com > > <http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com>> > > > > > > <http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com > > <http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com> > > > > <http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com > > <http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com>>>> > > > > > dsgouldians.com > > > > > > <http://www.grasslan <http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com > > <http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com> > > > > <http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com > > <http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com>> > > > > > > <http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com > > <http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com> > > > > <http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com > > <http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com>>>> > > > > > dsgouldians.com> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > On Oct 16, 2009, at 9:35 PM, > Amber > > > Berglund > > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > those are CFL bulbs, so > you have > > > more than > > > > > enough lighting for your 37 > > > > > > > > gallon if you have 1 > bulb on each > > > side of > > > > > the tank. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Amber > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Lainey Alexander wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > All I can see is > "coralife 65 > > > watt > > > > > 6700k" - each bulb has two tubes, > > > > > > > > > and they don't > quite make a U > > > turn but > > > > > they are connected by a small > > > > > > > > > bridge that seems > to be part > > > of the > > > > > bulb itself. Does this tell us > > > > > > > > > anything? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Lainey > > > > > > > > > http://www.grasslan <http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com > > <http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com> > > > > <http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com > > <http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com>> > > > > > > <http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com > > <http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com> > > > > <http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com > > <http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com>>>> > > > > > > dsgouldians.com > > > > > > > <http://www.grasslan <http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com > > <http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com> > > > > <http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com > > <http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com>> > > > > > > <http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com > > <http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com> > > > > <http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com > > <http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com>>>> > > > > > dsgouldians.com> > > > > > > <http:// > > > > > > > > > www.grasslandsgouldians.com> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > On Oct 16, 2009, at > 2:37 PM, > > > Lenny V. > > > > > aka GoldLenny wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Long straight > tubes with > > > pins on > > > > > each end? Many other bulbs also > > > > > > > > > > have pins > > > > > > > > > > but CFL's only > have them > > > on one > > > > > end and the tube usually makes > > > > > > > > a U- > > > > > > > > > > turn and > > > > > > > > > > comes back to > the same > > > fitting. > > > > > They should have a brand and item > > > > > > > > > > number on > > > > > > > > > > them... or > something > > > else... but > > > > > they are probably just standard > > > > > > > > > > fluorescent > > > > > > > > > > tubes. You > would have to > > > turn the > > > > > fixture over and look at the > > > > > > > > > > bulbs... > > > > > > > > > > maybe even > removing one > > > to look > > > > > for the writing on the glass on > > > > > > > > one > > > > > > > > > > end of > > > > > > > > > > the tube. It > > > might/should even > > > > > have a T-__ code which is a > > > > > > > > standard > > > > > > > > > > coding > > > > > > > > > > now for > fluorescent > > > tubes. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > You need to > know this > > > information > > > > > as, depending on the brand/type/ > > > > > > > > > > etc., you > > > > > > > > > > might have to > replace > > > these bulbs > > > > > every six months or so. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Lenny > Vasbinder > > > > > > > > > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny. > > > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>> > > > > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>>>> > > > > > > blogspot.com > > > > > > > <http://GoldLenny. > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>> > > > > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>>>> > > > > > blogspot.com> > > > > > > > > > <http://GoldLenny. > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>> > > > > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>>>> > > > > > blogspot.com > > > > > > <http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>> > > > > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>>>> > > > > > blogspot.com>> > > > > > > > > > > (Links to any > articles > > > referenced > > > > > in above reply are listed on the > > > > > > > > > > right > > > > > > > > > > side, > alphabetically > > > under Labels > > > > > and also under Archives by Year, > > > > > > > > > > Month) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -----Original > > > Message----- > > > > > > > > > > From: > AquaticLife@ > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > yahoogroups.com > > > > > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > > > > > [mailto:AquaticLife@ > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > yahoogroups.com > > > > > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On > > > > > > > > > > Behalf Of > Lainey > > > Alexander > > > > > > > > > > Sent: Friday, > October > > > 16, 2009 > > > > > 10:17 AM > > > > > > > > > > To: > AquaticLife@ > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > yahoogroups.com > > > > > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife% > > > > > > > > 40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > > > > Subject: Re: > > > [AquaticLife] OOPS re > > > > > green water > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Lenny - > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > As far as I > know, I have > > > regular > > > > > standard fluorescents, they are > > > > > > > > > > the ones > > > > > > > > > > with the pins > - 65 > > > watts, two > > > > > bulbs, 6700k each. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Lainey > > > > > > > > > > http://www.grasslan > > <http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com <http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com> > > > > <http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com > > <http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com>> > > > > > > <http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com > > <http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com> > > > > <http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com > > <http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com>>>> > > > > > > dsgouldians.com > > > > > > > <http://www.grasslan <http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com > > <http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com> > > > > <http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com > > <http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com>> > > > > > > <http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com > > <http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com> > > > > <http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com > > <http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com>>>> > > > > > dsgouldians.com> > > > > > > <http:// > > > > > > > > > www.grasslandsgouldians.com> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > On Oct 16, > 2009, at 1:16 > > > AM, Lenny > > > > > V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Lets > see... my > > > first thoughts > > > > > would be... > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > http://images. > > > > > > <http://images.veer.com/IMG/PILL/MAI/MAI0002683_P.JPG > > <http://images.veer.com/IMG/PILL/MAI/MAI0002683_P.JPG> > > > > <http://images.veer.com/IMG/PILL/MAI/MAI0002683_P.JPG > > <http://images.veer.com/IMG/PILL/MAI/MAI0002683_P.JPG>> > > > > > > <http://images.veer.com/IMG/PILL/MAI/MAI0002683_P.JPG > > <http://images.veer.com/IMG/PILL/MAI/MAI0002683_P.JPG> > > > > <http://images.veer.com/IMG/PILL/MAI/MAI0002683_P.JPG > > <http://images.veer.com/IMG/PILL/MAI/MAI0002683_P.JPG>>>> > > > > > > > veer.com/IMG/PILL/MAI/MAI0002683_P.JPG > > > > > > > <http://images. > > > > > > <http://images.veer.com/IMG/PILL/MAI/MAI0002683_P.JPG > > <http://images.veer.com/IMG/PILL/MAI/MAI0002683_P.JPG> > > > > <http://images.veer.com/IMG/PILL/MAI/MAI0002683_P.JPG > > <http://images.veer.com/IMG/PILL/MAI/MAI0002683_P.JPG>> > > > > > > <http://images.veer.com/IMG/PILL/MAI/MAI0002683_P.JPG > > <http://images.veer.com/IMG/PILL/MAI/MAI0002683_P.JPG> > > > > <http://images.veer.com/IMG/PILL/MAI/MAI0002683_P.JPG > > <http://images.veer.com/IMG/PILL/MAI/MAI0002683_P.JPG>>>> > > > > > > > veer.com/IMG/PILL/MAI/MAI0002683_P.JPG> > > > > > > > > > <http://images. > > > > > > <http://images.veer.com/IMG/PILL/MAI/MAI0002683_P.JPG > > <http://images.veer.com/IMG/PILL/MAI/MAI0002683_P.JPG> > > > > <http://images.veer.com/IMG/PILL/MAI/MAI0002683_P.JPG > > <http://images.veer.com/IMG/PILL/MAI/MAI0002683_P.JPG>> > > > > > > <http://images.veer.com/IMG/PILL/MAI/MAI0002683_P.JPG > > <http://images.veer.com/IMG/PILL/MAI/MAI0002683_P.JPG> > > > > <http://images.veer.com/IMG/PILL/MAI/MAI0002683_P.JPG > > <http://images.veer.com/IMG/PILL/MAI/MAI0002683_P.JPG>>>> > > > > > > > veer.com/IMG/PILL/MAI/MAI0002683_P.JPG > > > > > > > <http://images. > > > > > > <http://images.veer.com/IMG/PILL/MAI/MAI0002683_P.JPG > > <http://images.veer.com/IMG/PILL/MAI/MAI0002683_P.JPG> > > > > <http://images.veer.com/IMG/PILL/MAI/MAI0002683_P.JPG > > <http://images.veer.com/IMG/PILL/MAI/MAI0002683_P.JPG>> > > > > > > <http://images.veer.com/IMG/PILL/MAI/MAI0002683_P.JPG > > <http://images.veer.com/IMG/PILL/MAI/MAI0002683_P.JPG> > > > > <http://images.veer.com/IMG/PILL/MAI/MAI0002683_P.JPG > > <http://images.veer.com/IMG/PILL/MAI/MAI0002683_P.JPG>>>> > > > > > > > > > veer.com/IMG/PILL/MAI/MAI0002683_P.JPG>> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > (maybe > without the > > > Parrot as > > > > > an eye witness... lol... ;-)) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > It's good > to hear > > > you have a > > > > > 30" x 12" footprint but you need to > > > > > > > > > > quit > > > > > > > > > > > using the > "depth" > > > term for > > > > > the front to back measurement, > > > > > > > > although > > > > > > > > > > > that is a > common > > > term to use > > > > > for measuring other physical > > > > > > > > items, for > > > > > > > > > > > > aquariums, because > > > of the > > > > > water, "depth" can easily be > > > > > > > > > > misconstrued > to > > > > > > > > > > > be the > depth of the > > > water. > > > > > This is why the standard for aquarium > > > > > > > > > > > > measurement is L x > > > W x H > > > > > (Length by Width by Height). I know > the > > > > > > > > > > > "width" > part can be > > > confusing > > > > > also since that would be the long > > > > > > > > > > sides > > > > > > > > > > > of most > aquarium > > > where we > > > > > commonly use the long sides as the > > > > > > > > length > > > > > > > > > > > and the > front to > > > back > > > > > measurement as the width. > > > > > > > > > > > Don't ask > me who > > > invented > > > > > this standard. LOL > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > At least > with the > > > 30" x 12" > > > > > footprint and only 23" tall and your > > > > > > > > > > tank > > > > > > > > > > > is still > based on > > > the same > > > > > footprint as a 20G but at least > > > > > > > > it's a > > > > > > > > > > 20G > > > > > > > > > > > LONG > footprint > > > instead of a > > > > > regular 20G footprint. It's also not > > > > > > > > > > > nearly as > tall as > > > what you > > > > > originally said was a 30" tall > > > > > > > > tank so > > > > > > > > > > this > > > > > > > > > > > makes > your lighting > > > more > > > > > practical... BUT... you still DO NOT > > > > > > > > > > need 5" > > > > > > > > > > > to 7" of > gravel. > > > > > > > > > > > Still > > > > > > > > > > > cut this > back to 2" > > > to 3". > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I do not > recall if > > > you ever > > > > > listed details on your lighting > > > > > > > > other > > > > > > > > > > than > > > > > > > > > > > saying > you had two > > > 65W > > > > > fluorescent bulbs. Are they standard > > > > > > > > > > > > fluorescent > > > bulbs... long > > > > > single tubes with two pins on each > > > > > > > > end? > > > > > > > > > > Look > > > > > > > > > > > on the > bulbs for > > > any item > > > > > numbers, brand names, etc. and let us > > > > > > > > > > know. > > > > > > > > > > > From what > I can see > > > on the > > > > > net, it looks like you could > > > > > > > > either have > > > > > > > > > > > 65W CFL's > instead > > > of standard > > > > > fluorescent bulbs but they do also > > > > > > > > > > have > > > > > > > > > > > a T-10 > 65W > > > Fluorescent tube. > > > > > While they are both called 65W > > > > > > > > (watt), > > > > > > > > > > > the CFL's > would put > > > out 2-3 > > > > > times more light (lumens) than > > > > > > > > standard > > > > > > > > > > > > fluorescent tubes. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Lenny > Vasbinder > > > > > > > > > > > Fish Blog > - http://GoldLenny. > > > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>> > > > > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>>>> > > > > > > blogspot.com > > > > > > > <http://GoldLenny. > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>> > > > > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>>>> > > > > > blogspot.com> > > > > > > > > > <http://GoldLenny. > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>> > > > > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>>>> > > > > > blogspot.com > > > > > > <http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>> > > > > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>>>> > > > > > blogspot.com>> > > > > > > > (Links to any articles > > > > > > > > > > > > referenced in above > > > reply are > > > > > listed on the right side, > > > > > > > > > > > alphabetically > > > > > > > > > > > under > Labels and > > > also under > > > > > Archives by Year, > > > > > > > > > > > Month) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -----Original > > > Message----- > > > > > > > > > > > From: > AquaticLife@ > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > yahoogroups.com > > > > > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > [mailto:AquaticLife@ > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > yahoogroups.com > > > > > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On > > > Behalf Of > > > > > Lainey > > > > > > > > Alexander > > > > > > > > > > > Sent: > Thursday, > > > October 15, > > > > > 2009 8:38 PM > > > > > > > > > > > To: > AquaticLife@ > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > yahoogroups.com > > > > > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife% > > > > > > > > 40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > > > > > Subject: > > > [AquaticLife] OOPS > > > > > re green water > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I just > realized > > > that I > > > > > completely goofed on these > measurements > > > > > > > > > > > (below), > which is > > > why > > > > > everyone has been so adamant about my > > > > > > > > crazy > > > > > > > > > > tank > > > > > > > > > > > shape! > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > The > height is 23, > > > the WIDTH > > > > > is 30 and the depth is 12. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I'm so > sorry to > > > make everyone > > > > > talk about something that was > > > > > > > > > > incorrect > > > > > > > > > > > this > whole time. > > > But now, can > > > > > you all let me know if this is > > > > > > > > a much > > > > > > > > > > > more > reasonable > > > depth please? > > > > > Does this change my bioload > > > > > > > > issues at > > > > > > > > > > > all? > > > > > > > > > > > Does it > > > > > > > > > > > change > the > > > appropriateness of > > > > > my lights? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > In five > weeks > > > several of my > > > > > plants are near the top of the > > > > > > > > water, > > > > > > > > > > so I > > > > > > > > > > > think > they must be > > > fairly > > > > > happy with the light. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > My > apologies for > > > being > > > > > careless. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Lainey > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Tank > > > measurements are 30 > > > > > high, 23 wide and 12 deep. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Fluorescent > > > lights, 2 > > > > > @65 watts and 6700k - on 12 and off 12 > > > > > > > > > > > which is > > > > > > > > > > > > what > I have > > > been told my > > > > > plants require... > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I > used > > > Activ-Flora > > > > > gravel, and this contains non-nitrogen > > > > > > > > > > fertilizer > > > > > > > > > > > > > plus > > > "instant-cycling" > > > > > bacteria > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Not > dosing > > > with any > > > > > chemicals or ferts > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > *** > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions > of this > > > message have > > > > > been removed] > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this > message have > > > been > > > > > removed] > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message > have been > > > removed] > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ------------------------------------ > > > > > > > > > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING > below it > > > when > > > > > replying, Thank You. > > > > > > > > > ﾃつｷﾃつｴﾃつｯ`ﾃつｷ.ﾃつｸﾃつｸ.><((((ﾃつｺ>.ﾃつｷﾃつｴﾃつｯ`ﾃつｷ.ﾃつｸﾃつｸ.ﾃつｷﾃつｴﾃつｯ`ﾃつｷ.ﾃつｸ><((((ﾃつｺ> > > > > > > ﾃつｸ.ﾃつｷﾃつｴﾃつｯ`ﾃつｷ.ﾃつｸ. > , > > > > .ﾃつｷﾃつｴﾃつｯ`ﾃつｷ..><((((ﾃつｺ> > > > > > PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, > DELETE all TEXT > > > that is > > > > > NOT important to the reply & if > CHANGING the > > > TOPIC of > > > > > the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT > LINE > > > -> i.e. "new > > > > > subject (was re: old subject)" <- > > > > > > > > > <ﾃつｺ((((><.ﾃつｷﾃつｴﾃつｯ`ﾃつｷ.ﾃつｸﾃつｸ.ﾃつｷﾃつｴﾃつｯ`ﾃつｷ.ﾃつｸ<ﾃつｺ((((><ﾃつｸ.ﾃつｷﾃつｴﾃつｯ`ﾃつｷ.ﾃつｸ. > > > > > , > > > > .ﾃつｷﾃつｴﾃつｯ`ﾃつｷ..<ﾃつｺ((((><ﾃつｷﾃつｴﾃつｯ`ﾃつｷ.ﾃつｸﾃつｸ. > > > > > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP > in this > > > matter. > > > > > > > > > > If you do not want all of the groups > emails, > > > instead of > > > > > unsubscribing, you can change your > delivery > > > option by > > > > > clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the > home > > > page. > > > > > > > > > > Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com > > > <mailto:aquaticlife-digest%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > > <mailto:aquaticlife-digest%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > to receive the digest, which includes > up to 25 > > > posts at a > > > > > time in a single email > > > > > > > > > > Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com > > > <mailto:aquaticlife-nomail%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > > <mailto:aquaticlife-nomail%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > for the No E-Mail option where you will > still be > > > able to > > > > > read messages on the group and post > replies. > > > > > > > > > > Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com > > > <mailto:aquaticlife-normal%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > > <mailto:aquaticlife-normal%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > to receive individual e-mails.Yahoo! 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Groups Links > > >     mailto:AquaticLife-fullfeatured@yahoogroups.com > > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 43937	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 10/17/2009
Subject: Re: OOPS re green water

I see then, and as far as I'm concerned any light bulb is a bulb even if it plugs in and not screws in ;) LOL. Well I can see the problem you would have with that light, and since I'm not sure if it's a HO or VHO t-4, or even if you can find that type at one of your local stores, I would honestly suggest upgrading your hood. You can use the fixture itself as a shell and get a retrofit CFL kit from somewhere like marinedepot.com (I can't have the retrofit kits shipped to alaska, I think they are oversized or something weird, either way they are not shippable to me, so I had to buy a whole new fixture). Just make sure to get a CFL kit that's the same length or smaller than the light fixture it will go inside ;) Also after looking at marinedepot, they have another sale on a light fixture. If I were you I'd keep an eye on their site and see if one of the light fixtures you want comes up for sale. This one is a coralife HO (so it would be fluorescents) but it has 2 strips of lights, you will have to replace the bulbs though as they are not the proper spectrum for plants, it comes with a 10000 kelvin daylight and an actinic, you would want to replace the actinic at least with a 6500 or 6700 kelvin bulb instead for proper plant growth. http://www.marinedepot.com/ps_viewItem.aspx?idProduct=ES08600&utm_source=mdhfl091009b4&utm_medium=mdfl&utm_term=mdhflAqualight091009b4rt1&utm_content=mdhflb4rt1&utm_campaign=mdhfl It comes in 24 inches up to 48 inches, so it should have a size that will fit your tank. No night lights on this fixture, or a built in timer, but you can get around that with a simple light timer. I honestly prefer the CFL bulbs, but the HO T-5's or better are cheaper to replace than CFL's, but you will have to replace them every few months (6 months max or so I have heard) because they start to get dimmer over age, whereas CFL's don't have this issue, they just burn out eventually. So it's all a matter of how much money you want to save in the end, you'd have to buy more fluorescent bulbs more often, but the fixture's are cheaper than the CFL fixtures. You probably bought one of the planted substrates I assume? the gravel that comes in a brownish-red or black and has added nutrients for plants? Amber bill 1433 wrote: > > > Bear with me here Amber. I'm going to try answering using MSWord > and then cut and paste over to group to make sure I answer all your > questions in the order that you asked them. > > Now here is an interesting play on words. Most times when a person > says bulb you think of screwing it in, as opposed to clipping as in a > tube, correct? > > I have been entertaining the planted tank concept for a while and most > recently had yet another failure with it. This was mainly, again > because of, not enough light and incorrect light. Also you may > consider for here on out, when we are talking about the tank I would > be working with its size is a standard 20-gallon long. As I mentioned, > it does have a hood/cover from AGA. However, the 17-watt tube, even at > the 12 1/2" depth of this tank is not enough to insure good or any > plant growth. The last plants I tried were just plain simple water sprite. > > Substrate wise, although my size it good, over-all I'm told that for these > type of tanks to be successful another product is better but it's > proper name eludes me at the moment. Again the light fixture came > complete with a hood, which has a glass insert on top. The light > fixture then fits on top of this. It is a 17-watt tube not bulb. > > Right now the tank is running as a "Q" tank, stripped with no gravel > and a PF and sponge filter running. With all the problems with fish > that I had before, at this point I'm not sure I want to give up the > security of having one if you know what I mean. > This is just thinking out loud at this point. > > Bill > > --- On Sat, 10/17/09, Amber Berglund <arberglund@... > <mailto:arberglund%40gmail.com>> wrote: > > > From: Amber Berglund <arberglund@... > <mailto:arberglund%40gmail.com>> > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] OOPS re green water > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > Date: Saturday, October 17, 2009, 5:26 PM > > I use CFL light bulbs mostly. I think > > one of my 10 gallon tanks has a > > smaller CFL bulb too... The only one that has regular > > fluorescents is my > > 55 gallon that I got as a kit from walmart. So walmart > > would carry > > replacement lighting for it, but it's not HO or VHO lights, > > just > > regular, and honestly I'm not even sure what the watts are, > > but I'm > > probably around 1 watt per gallon, which is why it has > > mostly crypts a > > couple aponogettons, java fern and 1 sword of some type. > > They're all low > > light plants. > > > > Have you been thinking about switching to a planted tank > > lately Bill? I > > think you said at one time that the plants you have are all > > fake right now. > > > > If you want to switch over it's not going to be easy, you > > will have to > > do a tank tear down so you have a decent substrate in it > > instead of just > > gravel. Every time I've tried just using gravel all my > > plants started to > > die off, I gave up and switched all but my 10 gallon tanks > > to Walstad > > natural planted tanks. One trick to doing this is picking > > smaller gravel > > (like smaller than a frozen pea, but not much smaller than > > that), I have > > what is called "pea gravel" from the local hardware store > > and it's just > > large enough and heavy enough that the plants have a hard > > time growing > > up and through the gravel if it's sprouting a new/baby > > plant. The gravel > > seems just a little too large. In the 125 gallon tank I > > have the normal > > "rainbow gravel" that you see at most LFS/walmart for use > > in fish tanks, > > and the plants grow much faster and spread much faster > > (such as my vals, > > darn thing is trying to take over but in the 55 gallon with > > the larger > > gravel it doesn't even take root, it's floating and > > spreading on runners > > through the tank, but none of the runners are taking root > > into the > > gravel/soil, I think they can't get through the gravel or > > something). > > > > Did your light fixture come as a kit, or was it used? Do > > you have any > > info on it so we could find out what bulbs you need to > > replace it with? > > > > Amber > > > > bill 1433 wrote: > > > > > > > > > Why not? Might serve to clear things up for lots > > > of folks, me included. > > > > > > Problems here with size still. I think more > > investigation on > > > my part. Even Len's suggestion at taking with tube > > "with" may not > > > help. Right size yes, but maybe wrong or not strong > > enough wattage. > > > Result? I'm right back where I started from. More > > reading and > > > more checking, this thing can't be this hard. I'm told > > even a > > > twelve year old can have a planted tank. Ah to be > > young again! > > > > > > Bill > > > > > > --- On Sat, 10/17/09, Amber Berglund <arberglund@... > <mailto:arberglund%40gmail.com> > > > > > <mailto:arberglund%40gmail.com>> wrote: > > > > > > > From: Amber Berglund <arberglund@... > <mailto:arberglund%40gmail.com> > > > > > <mailto:arberglund%40gmail.com>> > > > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] OOPS re green water > > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > Date: Saturday, October 17, 2009, 3:13 PM > > > > Picture of my light fixture? > > > > > > > > Amber > > > > > > > > bill 1433 wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Hi Amber, > > > > > > > > > > Just wanted to ask, "Do you have any of > > these lights > > > > posted in our > > > > > photo section? Would you? > > > > > > > > > > Bill > > > > > > > > > > --- On Sat, 10/17/09, Amber Berglund <arberglund@... > <mailto:arberglund%40gmail.com> > > > > > <mailto:arberglund%40gmail.com> > > > > > > > > > <mailto:arberglund%40gmail.com>> > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > From: Amber Berglund <arberglund@... > <mailto:arberglund%40gmail.com> > > > > > <mailto:arberglund%40gmail.com> > > > > > > > > > <mailto:arberglund%40gmail.com>> > > > > > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] OOPS re > > green water > > > > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > Date: Saturday, October 17, 2009, 2:07 > > PM > > > > > > Normally they carry longer ones, I > > > > > > tried ordering that type of light > > > > > > from DFS.com but it kept arriving > > broken no > > > > matter how they > > > > > > shipped it > > > > > > (granted it had no protection around > > the bulbs so > > > > they were > > > > > > just banging > > > > > > around in the fixture until it got > > here, and of > > > > course they > > > > > > arrived > > > > > > broken). After the 2nd time arriving > > broken I > > > > said > > > > > > nevermind, sent it > > > > > > back and waited for my refund (which > > took about a > > > > month > > > > > > *sigh*), then I > > > > > > got a much better light from > > marinedepot.com and > > > > it arrived > > > > > > in perfect > > > > > > condition and I LOVE the light better > > than the > > > > one I > > > > > > pointed out for > > > > > > sale, but the one on sale is a decent > > light too, > > > > just a > > > > > > step down from > > > > > > the one I ended up getting (which > > includes it's > > > > own timer, > > > > > > and legs to > > > > > > prop the light fixture up, whereas the > > other one > > > > just sets > > > > > > on top of > > > > > > your aquarium lid). > > > > > > > > > > > > Amber > > > > > > > > > > > > Donna Ransome wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Thatﾃ｢竄ｬ邃｢s the > > fixture I have too on all > > > > tanks, but my > > > > > > fixtures are longer. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > _____ > > > > > > > > > > > > > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On > > > > > > > Behalf Of Amber Berglund > > > > > > > Sent: Friday, October 16, 2009 > > 9:50 PM > > > > > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] OOPS re > > green > > > > water > > > > > > > > > > > > > > If you ever want to increase your > > lighting > > > > even more > > > > > > with CFL bulbs you > > > > > > > can find better bulbs with a > > better light > > > > spectrum. I > > > > > > actually have the > > > > > > > same bulbs in my light fixture, I > > use the > > > > straight pin > > > > > > on the fixture on > > > > > > > my 55 gallon and the 125 gallon > > has square > > > > pin lights. > > > > > > I've found that > > > > > > > there's a better selection for > > straight pin > > > > bulbs on > > > > > > marinedepot.com > > > > > > > than square pin (and the prices > > are usually > > > > better). > > > > > > > Oh and while I'm talking about > > > > marinedepot.com they > > > > > > are running a sale > > > > > > > on a light fixture that has CFL > > bulbs and > > > > LED night > > > > > > lighting all in one. > > > > > > > They only go from 24-36 inches > > though, but > > > > they are > > > > > > all on sale. > > > > > > > http://www.marinede > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > <http://www.marinedepot.com/24_inch_2x65_Watt_Current_USA_PowerCompact_Dual_ > <http://www.marinedepot.com/24_inch_2x65_Watt_Current_USA_PowerCompact_Dual_> > > > > > > <http://www.marinedepot.com/24_inch_2x65_Watt_Current_USA_PowerCompact_Dual_ > <http://www.marinedepot.com/24_inch_2x65_Watt_Current_USA_PowerCompact_Dual_>> > > > > > > > > > > > > > <http://www.marinedepot.com/24_inch_2x65_Watt_Current_USA_PowerCompact_Dual_ > <http://www.marinedepot.com/24_inch_2x65_Watt_Current_USA_PowerCompact_Dual_> > > > > > > <http://www.marinedepot.com/24_inch_2x65_Watt_Current_USA_PowerCompact_Dual_ > <http://www.marinedepot.com/24_inch_2x65_Watt_Current_USA_PowerCompact_Dual_>>> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > <http://www.marinedepot.com/24_inch_2x65_Watt_Current_USA_PowerCompact_Dual_ > <http://www.marinedepot.com/24_inch_2x65_Watt_Current_USA_PowerCompact_Dual_> > > > > > > <http://www.marinedepot.com/24_inch_2x65_Watt_Current_USA_PowerCompact_Dual_ > <http://www.marinedepot.com/24_inch_2x65_Watt_Current_USA_PowerCompact_Dual_>> > > > > > > > > > > > > > <http://www.marinedepot.com/24_inch_2x65_Watt_Current_USA_PowerCompact_Dual_ > <http://www.marinedepot.com/24_inch_2x65_Watt_Current_USA_PowerCompact_Dual_> > > > > > > <http://www.marinedepot.com/24_inch_2x65_Watt_Current_USA_PowerCompact_Dual_ > <http://www.marinedepot.com/24_inch_2x65_Watt_Current_USA_PowerCompact_Dual_>>>> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Satellite_Fixture_24_Inch_Power_Compact_Light_Fixtures-Current_USA-CU01011-F > > > > > > > ILTFIPCTF-CU01013-vi.html> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > pot.com/24_inch_2x65_Watt_Current_USA_PowerCompact_Dual_Satellite_Fixture_24 > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > _Inch_Power_Compact_Light_Fixtures-Current_USA-CU01011-FILTFIPCTF-CU01013-vi > > > > > > > .html > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Amber > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Lainey Alexander wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Thanks, Amber - they are > > tubes that > > > > reach the > > > > > > length of the tank. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Lainey > > > > > > > > http://www.grasslan <http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com > <http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com> > > > <http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com > <http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com>> > > > > > <http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com > <http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com> > > > <http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com > <http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com>>> > > > > > > > <http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com > <http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com> > > > <http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com > <http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com>> > > > > > <http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com > <http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com> > > > <http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com > <http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com>>>>> > > > > > > dsgouldians.com > > > > > > > <http://www.grasslan <http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com > <http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com> > > > <http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com > <http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com>> > > > > > <http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com > <http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com> > > > <http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com > <http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com>>> > > > > > > > <http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com > <http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com> > > > <http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com > <http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com>> > > > > > <http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com > <http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com> > > > <http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com > <http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com>>>>> > > > > > > dsgouldians.com> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > On Oct 16, 2009, at 9:35 PM, > > Amber > > > > Berglund > > > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > those are CFL bulbs, so > > you have > > > > more than > > > > > > enough lighting for your 37 > > > > > > > > > gallon if you have 1 > > bulb on each > > > > side of > > > > > > the tank. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Amber > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Lainey Alexander wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > All I can see is > > "coralife 65 > > > > watt > > > > > > 6700k" - each bulb has two tubes, > > > > > > > > > > and they don't > > quite make a U > > > > turn but > > > > > > they are connected by a small > > > > > > > > > > bridge that seems > > to be part > > > > of the > > > > > > bulb itself. Does this tell us > > > > > > > > > > anything? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Lainey > > > > > > > > > > http://www.grasslan > <http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com <http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com> > > > <http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com > <http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com>> > > > > > <http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com > <http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com> > > > <http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com > <http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com>>> > > > > > > > <http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com > <http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com> > > > <http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com > <http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com>> > > > > > <http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com > <http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com> > > > <http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com > <http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com>>>>> > > > > > > > dsgouldians.com > > > > > > > > <http://www.grasslan <http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com > <http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com> > > > <http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com > <http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com>> > > > > > <http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com > <http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com> > > > <http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com > <http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com>>> > > > > > > > <http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com > <http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com> > > > <http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com > <http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com>> > > > > > <http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com > <http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com> > > > <http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com > <http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com>>>>> > > > > > > dsgouldians.com> > > > > > > > <http:// > > > > > > > > > > > www.grasslandsgouldians.com> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > On Oct 16, 2009, at > > 2:37 PM, > > > > Lenny V. > > > > > > aka GoldLenny wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Long straight > > tubes with > > > > pins on > > > > > > each end? Many other bulbs also > > > > > > > > > > > have pins > > > > > > > > > > > but CFL's only > > have them > > > > on one > > > > > > end and the tube usually makes > > > > > > > > > a U- > > > > > > > > > > > turn and > > > > > > > > > > > comes back to > > the same > > > > fitting. > > > > > > They should have a brand and item > > > > > > > > > > > number on > > > > > > > > > > > them... or > > something > > > > else... but > > > > > > they are probably just standard > > > > > > > > > > > fluorescent > > > > > > > > > > > tubes. You > > would have to > > > > turn the > > > > > > fixture over and look at the > > > > > > > > > > > bulbs... > > > > > > > > > > > maybe even > > removing one > > > > to look > > > > > > for the writing on the glass on > > > > > > > > > one > > > > > > > > > > > end of > > > > > > > > > > > the tube. It > > > > might/should even > > > > > > have a T-__ code which is a > > > > > > > > > standard > > > > > > > > > > > coding > > > > > > > > > > > now for > > fluorescent > > > > tubes. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > You need to > > know this > > > > information > > > > > > as, depending on the brand/type/ > > > > > > > > > > > etc., you > > > > > > > > > > > might have to > > replace > > > > these bulbs > > > > > > every six months or so. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Lenny > > Vasbinder > > > > > > > > > > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny. > > > > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>> > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>>> > > > > > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>> > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>>>>> > > > > > > > blogspot.com > > > > > > > > <http://GoldLenny. > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>> > > > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>>> > > > > > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>> > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>>>>> > > > > > > blogspot.com> > > > > > > > > > > <http://GoldLenny. > > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>> > > > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>>> > > > > > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>> > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>>>>> > > > > > > blogspot.com > > > > > > > <http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>> > > > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>>> > > > > > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>> > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>>>>> > > > > > > blogspot.com>> > > > > > > > > > > > (Links to any > > articles > > > > referenced > > > > > > in above reply are listed on the > > > > > > > > > > > right > > > > > > > > > > > side, > > alphabetically > > > > under Labels > > > > > > and also under Archives by Year, > > > > > > > > > > > Month) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -----Original > > > > Message----- > > > > > > > > > > > From: > > AquaticLife@ > > > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > yahoogroups.com > > > > > > > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > > > > > > > [mailto:AquaticLife@ > > > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > yahoogroups.com > > > > > > > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On > > > > > > > > > > > Behalf Of > > Lainey > > > > Alexander > > > > > > > > > > > Sent: Friday, > > October > > > > 16, 2009 > > > > > > 10:17 AM > > > > > > > > > > > To: > > AquaticLife@ > > > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > yahoogroups.com > > > > > > > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife% > > > > > > > > > 40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > > > > > Subject: Re: > > > > [AquaticLife] OOPS re > > > > > > green water > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Lenny - > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > As far as I > > know, I have > > > > regular > > > > > > standard fluorescents, they are > > > > > > > > > > > the ones > > > > > > > > > > > with the pins > > - 65 > > > > watts, two > > > > > > bulbs, 6700k each. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Lainey > > > > > > > > > > > http://www.grasslan > > > <http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com > <http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com> > <http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com <http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com>> > > > > > <http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com > <http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com> > > > <http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com > <http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com>>> > > > > > > > <http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com > <http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com> > > > <http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com > <http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com>> > > > > > <http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com > <http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com> > > > <http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com > <http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com>>>>> > > > > > > > dsgouldians.com > > > > > > > > <http://www.grasslan <http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com > <http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com> > > > <http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com > <http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com>> > > > > > <http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com > <http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com> > > > <http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com > <http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com>>> > > > > > > > <http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com > <http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com> > > > <http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com > <http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com>> > > > > > <http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com > <http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com> > > > <http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com > <http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com>>>>> > > > > > > dsgouldians.com> > > > > > > > <http:// > > > > > > > > > > > www.grasslandsgouldians.com> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > On Oct 16, > > 2009, at 1:16 > > > > AM, Lenny > > > > > > V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Lets > > see... my > > > > first thoughts > > > > > > would be... > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > http://images. > > > > > > > <http://images.veer.com/IMG/PILL/MAI/MAI0002683_P.JPG > <http://images.veer.com/IMG/PILL/MAI/MAI0002683_P.JPG> > > > <http://images.veer.com/IMG/PILL/MAI/MAI0002683_P.JPG > <http://images.veer.com/IMG/PILL/MAI/MAI0002683_P.JPG>> > > > > > <http://images.veer.com/IMG/PILL/MAI/MAI0002683_P.JPG > <http://images.veer.com/IMG/PILL/MAI/MAI0002683_P.JPG> > > > <http://images.veer.com/IMG/PILL/MAI/MAI0002683_P.JPG > <http://images.veer.com/IMG/PILL/MAI/MAI0002683_P.JPG>>> > > > > > > > <http://images.veer.com/IMG/PILL/MAI/MAI0002683_P.JPG > <http://images.veer.com/IMG/PILL/MAI/MAI0002683_P.JPG> > > > <http://images.veer.com/IMG/PILL/MAI/MAI0002683_P.JPG > <http://images.veer.com/IMG/PILL/MAI/MAI0002683_P.JPG>> > > > > > <http://images.veer.com/IMG/PILL/MAI/MAI0002683_P.JPG > <http://images.veer.com/IMG/PILL/MAI/MAI0002683_P.JPG> > > > <http://images.veer.com/IMG/PILL/MAI/MAI0002683_P.JPG > <http://images.veer.com/IMG/PILL/MAI/MAI0002683_P.JPG>>>>> > > > > > > > > > veer.com/IMG/PILL/MAI/MAI0002683_P.JPG > > > > > > > > <http://images. > > > > > > > <http://images.veer.com/IMG/PILL/MAI/MAI0002683_P.JPG > <http://images.veer.com/IMG/PILL/MAI/MAI0002683_P.JPG> > > > <http://images.veer.com/IMG/PILL/MAI/MAI0002683_P.JPG > <http://images.veer.com/IMG/PILL/MAI/MAI0002683_P.JPG>> > > > > > <http://images.veer.com/IMG/PILL/MAI/MAI0002683_P.JPG > <http://images.veer.com/IMG/PILL/MAI/MAI0002683_P.JPG> > > > <http://images.veer.com/IMG/PILL/MAI/MAI0002683_P.JPG > <http://images.veer.com/IMG/PILL/MAI/MAI0002683_P.JPG>>> > > > > > > > <http://images.veer.com/IMG/PILL/MAI/MAI0002683_P.JPG > <http://images.veer.com/IMG/PILL/MAI/MAI0002683_P.JPG> > > > <http://images.veer.com/IMG/PILL/MAI/MAI0002683_P.JPG > <http://images.veer.com/IMG/PILL/MAI/MAI0002683_P.JPG>> > > > > > <http://images.veer.com/IMG/PILL/MAI/MAI0002683_P.JPG > <http://images.veer.com/IMG/PILL/MAI/MAI0002683_P.JPG> > > > <http://images.veer.com/IMG/PILL/MAI/MAI0002683_P.JPG > <http://images.veer.com/IMG/PILL/MAI/MAI0002683_P.JPG>>>>> > > > > > > > > > veer.com/IMG/PILL/MAI/MAI0002683_P.JPG> > > > > > > > > > > <http://images. > > > > > > > <http://images.veer.com/IMG/PILL/MAI/MAI0002683_P.JPG > <http://images.veer.com/IMG/PILL/MAI/MAI0002683_P.JPG> > > > <http://images.veer.com/IMG/PILL/MAI/MAI0002683_P.JPG > <http://images.veer.com/IMG/PILL/MAI/MAI0002683_P.JPG>> > > > > > <http://images.veer.com/IMG/PILL/MAI/MAI0002683_P.JPG > <http://images.veer.com/IMG/PILL/MAI/MAI0002683_P.JPG> > > > <http://images.veer.com/IMG/PILL/MAI/MAI0002683_P.JPG > <http://images.veer.com/IMG/PILL/MAI/MAI0002683_P.JPG>>> > > > > > > > <http://images.veer.com/IMG/PILL/MAI/MAI0002683_P.JPG > <http://images.veer.com/IMG/PILL/MAI/MAI0002683_P.JPG> > > > <http://images.veer.com/IMG/PILL/MAI/MAI0002683_P.JPG > <http://images.veer.com/IMG/PILL/MAI/MAI0002683_P.JPG>> > > > > > <http://images.veer.com/IMG/PILL/MAI/MAI0002683_P.JPG > <http://images.veer.com/IMG/PILL/MAI/MAI0002683_P.JPG> > > > <http://images.veer.com/IMG/PILL/MAI/MAI0002683_P.JPG > <http://images.veer.com/IMG/PILL/MAI/MAI0002683_P.JPG>>>>> > > > > > > > > > veer.com/IMG/PILL/MAI/MAI0002683_P.JPG > > > > > > > > <http://images. > > > > > > > <http://images.veer.com/IMG/PILL/MAI/MAI0002683_P.JPG > <http://images.veer.com/IMG/PILL/MAI/MAI0002683_P.JPG> > > > <http://images.veer.com/IMG/PILL/MAI/MAI0002683_P.JPG > <http://images.veer.com/IMG/PILL/MAI/MAI0002683_P.JPG>> > > > > > <http://images.veer.com/IMG/PILL/MAI/MAI0002683_P.JPG > <http://images.veer.com/IMG/PILL/MAI/MAI0002683_P.JPG> > > > <http://images.veer.com/IMG/PILL/MAI/MAI0002683_P.JPG > <http://images.veer.com/IMG/PILL/MAI/MAI0002683_P.JPG>>> > > > > > > > <http://images.veer.com/IMG/PILL/MAI/MAI0002683_P.JPG > <http://images.veer.com/IMG/PILL/MAI/MAI0002683_P.JPG> > > > <http://images.veer.com/IMG/PILL/MAI/MAI0002683_P.JPG > <http://images.veer.com/IMG/PILL/MAI/MAI0002683_P.JPG>> > > > > > <http://images.veer.com/IMG/PILL/MAI/MAI0002683_P.JPG > <http://images.veer.com/IMG/PILL/MAI/MAI0002683_P.JPG> > > > <http://images.veer.com/IMG/PILL/MAI/MAI0002683_P.JPG > <http://images.veer.com/IMG/PILL/MAI/MAI0002683_P.JPG>>>>> > > > > > > > > > > > veer.com/IMG/PILL/MAI/MAI0002683_P.JPG>> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > (maybe > > without the > > > > Parrot as > > > > > > an eye witness... lol... ;-)) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > It's good > > to hear > > > > you have a > > > > > > 30" x 12" footprint but you need to > > > > > > > > > > > quit > > > > > > > > > > > > using the > > "depth" > > > > term for > > > > > > the front to back measurement, > > > > > > > > > although > > > > > > > > > > > > that is a > > common > > > > term to use > > > > > > for measuring other physical > > > > > > > > > items, for > > > > > > > > > > > > > > aquariums, because > > > > of the > > > > > > water, "depth" can easily be > > > > > > > > > > > misconstrued > > to > > > > > > > > > > > > be the > > depth of the > > > > water. > > > > > > This is why the standard for aquarium > > > > > > > > > > > > > > measurement is L x > > > > W x H > > > > > > (Length by Width by Height). I know > > the > > > > > > > > > > > > "width" > > part can be > > > > confusing > > > > > > also since that would be the long > > > > > > > > > > > sides > > > > > > > > > > > > of most > > aquarium > > > > where we > > > > > > commonly use the long sides as the > > > > > > > > > length > > > > > > > > > > > > and the > > front to > > > > back > > > > > > measurement as the width. > > > > > > > > > > > > Don't ask > > me who > > > > invented > > > > > > this standard. LOL > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > At least > > with the > > > > 30" x 12" > > > > > > footprint and only 23" tall and your > > > > > > > > > > > tank > > > > > > > > > > > > is still > > based on > > > > the same > > > > > > footprint as a 20G but at least > > > > > > > > > it's a > > > > > > > > > > > 20G > > > > > > > > > > > > LONG > > footprint > > > > instead of a > > > > > > regular 20G footprint. It's also not > > > > > > > > > > > > nearly as > > tall as > > > > what you > > > > > > originally said was a 30" tall > > > > > > > > > tank so > > > > > > > > > > > this > > > > > > > > > > > > makes > > your lighting > > > > more > > > > > > practical... BUT... you still DO NOT > > > > > > > > > > > need 5" > > > > > > > > > > > > to 7" of > > gravel. > > > > > > > > > > > > Still > > > > > > > > > > > > cut this > > back to 2" > > > > to 3". > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I do not > > recall if > > > > you ever > > > > > > listed details on your lighting > > > > > > > > > other > > > > > > > > > > > than > > > > > > > > > > > > saying > > you had two > > > > 65W > > > > > > fluorescent bulbs. Are they standard > > > > > > > > > > > > > > fluorescent > > > > bulbs... long > > > > > > single tubes with two pins on each > > > > > > > > > end? > > > > > > > > > > > Look > > > > > > > > > > > > on the > > bulbs for > > > > any item > > > > > > numbers, brand names, etc. and let us > > > > > > > > > > > know. > > > > > > > > > > > > From what > > I can see > > > > on the > > > > > > net, it looks like you could > > > > > > > > > either have > > > > > > > > > > > > 65W CFL's > > instead > > > > of standard > > > > > > fluorescent bulbs but they do also > > > > > > > > > > > have > > > > > > > > > > > > a T-10 > > 65W > > > > Fluorescent tube. > > > > > > While they are both called 65W > > > > > > > > > (watt), > > > > > > > > > > > > the CFL's > > would put > > > > out 2-3 > > > > > > times more light (lumens) than > > > > > > > > > standard > > > > > > > > > > > > > > fluorescent tubes. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Lenny > > Vasbinder > > > > > > > > > > > > Fish Blog > > - http://GoldLenny. > > > > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>> > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>>> > > > > > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>> > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>>>>> > > > > > > > blogspot.com > > > > > > > > <http://GoldLenny. > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>> > > > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>>> > > > > > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>> > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>>>>> > > > > > > blogspot.com> > > > > > > > > > > <http://GoldLenny. > > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>> > > > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>>> > > > > > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>> > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>>>>> > > > > > > blogspot.com > > > > > > > <http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>> > > > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>>> > > > > > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>> > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>>>>> > > > > > > blogspot.com>> > > > > > > > > (Links to any articles > > > > > > > > > > > > > > referenced in above > > > > reply are > > > > > > listed on the right side, > > > > > > > > > > > > > alphabetically > > > > > > > > > > > > under > > Labels and > > > > also under > > > > > > Archives by Year, > > > > > > > > > > > > Month) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -----Original > > > > Message----- > > > > > > > > > > > > From: > > AquaticLife@ > > > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > yahoogroups.com > > > > > > > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > [mailto:AquaticLife@ > > > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > yahoogroups.com > > > > > > > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On > > > > Behalf Of > > > > > > Lainey > > > > > > > > > Alexander > > > > > > > > > > > > Sent: > > Thursday, > > > > October 15, > > > > > > 2009 8:38 PM > > > > > > > > > > > > To: > > AquaticLife@ > > > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > yahoogroups.com > > > > > > > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife% > > > > > > > > > 40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > > > > > > Subject: > > > > [AquaticLife] OOPS > > > > > > re green water > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I just > > realized > > > > that I > > > > > > completely goofed on these > > measurements > > > > > > > > > > > > (below), > > which is > > > > why > > > > > > everyone has been so adamant about my > > > > > > > > > crazy > > > > > > > > > > > tank > > > > > > > > > > > > shape! > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > The > > height is 23, > > > > the WIDTH > > > > > > is 30 and the depth is 12. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I'm so > > sorry to > > > > make everyone > > > > > > talk about something that was > > > > > > > > > > > incorrect > > > > > > > > > > > > this > > whole time. > > > > But now, can > > > > > > you all let me know if this is > > > > > > > > > a much > > > > > > > > > > > > more > > reasonable > > > > depth please? > > > > > > Does this change my bioload > > > > > > > > > issues at > > > > > > > > > > > > all? > > > > > > > > > > > > Does it > > > > > > > > > > > > change > > the > > > > appropriateness of > > > > > > my lights? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > In five > > weeks > > > > several of my > > > > > > plants are near the top of the > > > > > > > > > water, > > > > > > > > > > > so I > > > > > > > > > > > > think > > they must be > > > > fairly > > > > > > happy with the light. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > My > > apologies for > > > > being > > > > > > careless. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Lainey > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Tank > > > > measurements are 30 > > > > > > high, 23 wide and 12 deep. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Fluorescent > > > > lights, 2 > > > > > > @65 watts and 6700k - on 12 and off 12 > > > > > > > > > > > > which is > > > > > > > > > > > > > what > > I have > > > > been told my > > > > > > plants require... > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I > > used > > > > Activ-Flora > > > > > > gravel, and this contains non-nitrogen > > > > > > > > > > > fertilizer > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > plus > > > > "instant-cycling" > > > > > > bacteria > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Not > > dosing > > > > with any > > > > > > chemicals or ferts > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > *** > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions > > of this > > > > message have > > > > > > been removed] > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this > > message have > > > > been > > > > > > removed] > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message > > have been > > > > removed] > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ------------------------------------ > > > > > > > > > > > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING > > below it > > > > when > > > > > > replying, Thank You. > > > > > > > > > > > > ﾃつｷﾃつｴﾃつｯ`ﾃつｷ.ﾃつｸﾃつｸ.><((((ﾃつｺ>.ﾃつｷﾃつｴﾃつｯ`ﾃつｷ.ﾃつｸﾃつｸ.ﾃ > つｷﾃつｴﾃつｯ` ﾃつｷ.ﾃつｸ><((((ﾃつｺ> > > > > > > > > ﾃつｸ.ﾃつｷﾃつｴﾃつｯ`ﾃつｷ.ﾃつｸ. > > , > > > > > > .ﾃつｷﾃつｴﾃつｯ`ﾃつｷ..><((((ﾃつｺ> > > > > > > PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, > > DELETE all TEXT > > > > that is > > > > > > NOT important to the reply & if > > CHANGING the > > > > TOPIC of > > > > > > the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT > > LINE > > > > -> i.e. "new > > > > > > subject (was re: old subject)" <- > > > > > > > > > > > > <ﾃつｺ((((><.ﾃつｷﾃつｴﾃつｯ`ﾃつｷ.ﾃつｸﾃつｸ.ﾃつｷﾃつｴﾃつｯ`ﾃつｷ.ﾃつｸ<ﾃつｺ > ((((><ﾃつｸ.ﾃつｷﾃつｴﾃつｯ`ﾃつｷ.ﾃつｸ. > > > > > > , > > > > > > .ﾃつｷﾃつｴﾃつｯ`ﾃつｷ..<ﾃつｺ((((><ﾃつｷﾃつｴﾃつｯ`ﾃつｷ.ﾃつｸﾃつｸ. > > > > > > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP > > in this > > > > matter. > > > > > > > > > > > > If you do not want all of the groups > > emails, > > > > instead of > > > > > > unsubscribing, you can change your > > delivery > > > > option by > > > > > > clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the > > home > > > > page. > > > > > > > > > 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Group: AquaticLife	Message: 43938	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 10/17/2009
Subject: Re: OOPS re green water

Okay Bill here's an idea for you. Is your AGA hood one with a removeable light fixture on it, or is it one that's all included in one hood (light is not removeable except perhaps the bulb)? On DFS they have a light fixture that I'd recommend getting if you can remove your current one from your hood, if not you'll have to buy a whole new hood :( I have a 10 gallon from walmart that's all in one, I'd have to buy a whole new hood to replace the light fixture on it. my 10 gallon upstairs is an older AGA walmart kit and it's light fixture is separate from the actual hood, so you could easily replace it with something the same size but higher power. I was looking at this light fixture on DFS.com http://www.drsfostersmith.com/product/prod_display.cfm?c=3578+3733+9662+13612&pcatid=13612 Amber bill 1433 wrote: > > > Bear with me here Amber. I'm going to try answering using MSWord > and then cut and paste over to group to make sure I answer all your > questions in the order that you asked them. > > Now here is an interesting play on words. Most times when a person > says bulb you think of screwing it in, as opposed to clipping as in a > tube, correct? > > I have been entertaining the planted tank concept for a while and most > recently had yet another failure with it. This was mainly, again > because of, not enough light and incorrect light. Also you may > consider for here on out, when we are talking about the tank I would > be working with its size is a standard 20-gallon long. As I mentioned, > it does have a hood/cover from AGA. However, the 17-watt tube, even at > the 12 1/2" depth of this tank is not enough to insure good or any > plant growth. The last plants I tried were just plain simple water sprite. > > Substrate wise, although my size it good, over-all I'm told that for these > type of tanks to be successful another product is better but it's > proper name eludes me at the moment. Again the light fixture came > complete with a hood, which has a glass insert on top. The light > fixture then fits on top of this. It is a 17-watt tube not bulb. > > Right now the tank is running as a "Q" tank, stripped with no gravel > and a PF and sponge filter running. With all the problems with fish > that I had before, at this point I'm not sure I want to give up the > security of having one if you know what I mean. > This is just thinking out loud at this point. > > Bill > > --- On Sat, 10/17/09, Amber Berglund <arberglund@... > <mailto:arberglund%40gmail.com>> wrote: > > > From: Amber Berglund <arberglund@... > <mailto:arberglund%40gmail.com>> > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] OOPS re green water > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > Date: Saturday, October 17, 2009, 5:26 PM > > I use CFL light bulbs mostly. I think > > one of my 10 gallon tanks has a > > smaller CFL bulb too... The only one that has regular > > fluorescents is my > > 55 gallon that I got as a kit from walmart. So walmart > > would carry > > replacement lighting for it, but it's not HO or VHO lights, > > just > > regular, and honestly I'm not even sure what the watts are, > > but I'm > > probably around 1 watt per gallon, which is why it has > > mostly crypts a > > couple aponogettons, java fern and 1 sword of some type. > > They're all low > > light plants. > > > > Have you been thinking about switching to a planted tank > > lately Bill? I > > think you said at one time that the plants you have are all > > fake right now. > > > > If you want to switch over it's not going to be easy, you > > will have to > > do a tank tear down so you have a decent substrate in it > > instead of just > > gravel. Every time I've tried just using gravel all my > > plants started to > > die off, I gave up and switched all but my 10 gallon tanks > > to Walstad > > natural planted tanks. One trick to doing this is picking > > smaller gravel > > (like smaller than a frozen pea, but not much smaller than > > that), I have > > what is called "pea gravel" from the local hardware store > > and it's just > > large enough and heavy enough that the plants have a hard > > time growing > > up and through the gravel if it's sprouting a new/baby > > plant. The gravel > > seems just a little too large. In the 125 gallon tank I > > have the normal > > "rainbow gravel" that you see at most LFS/walmart for use > > in fish tanks, > > and the plants grow much faster and spread much faster > > (such as my vals, > > darn thing is trying to take over but in the 55 gallon with > > the larger > > gravel it doesn't even take root, it's floating and > > spreading on runners > > through the tank, but none of the runners are taking root > > into the > > gravel/soil, I think they can't get through the gravel or > > something). > > > > Did your light fixture come as a kit, or was it used? Do > > you have any > > info on it so we could find out what bulbs you need to > > replace it with? > > > > Amber > > > > bill 1433 wrote: > > > > > > > > > Why not? Might serve to clear things up for lots > > > of folks, me included. > > > > > > Problems here with size still. I think more > > investigation on > > > my part. Even Len's suggestion at taking with tube > > "with" may not > > > help. Right size yes, but maybe wrong or not strong > > enough wattage. > > > Result? I'm right back where I started from. More > > reading and > > > more checking, this thing can't be this hard. I'm told > > even a > > > twelve year old can have a planted tank. Ah to be > > young again! > > > > > > Bill > > > > > > --- On Sat, 10/17/09, Amber Berglund <arberglund@... > <mailto:arberglund%40gmail.com> > > > > > <mailto:arberglund%40gmail.com>> wrote: > > > > > > > From: Amber Berglund <arberglund@... > <mailto:arberglund%40gmail.com> > > > > > <mailto:arberglund%40gmail.com>> > > > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] OOPS re green water > > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > Date: Saturday, October 17, 2009, 3:13 PM > > > > Picture of my light fixture? > > > > > > > > Amber > > > > > > > > bill 1433 wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Hi Amber, > > > > > > > > > > Just wanted to ask, "Do you have any of > > these lights > > > > posted in our > > > > > photo section? Would you? > > > > > > > > > > Bill > > > > > > > > > > --- On Sat, 10/17/09, Amber Berglund <arberglund@... > <mailto:arberglund%40gmail.com> > > > > > <mailto:arberglund%40gmail.com> > > > > > > > > > <mailto:arberglund%40gmail.com>> > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > From: Amber Berglund <arberglund@... > <mailto:arberglund%40gmail.com> > > > > > <mailto:arberglund%40gmail.com> > > > > > > > > > <mailto:arberglund%40gmail.com>> > > > > > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] OOPS re > > green water > > > > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > Date: Saturday, October 17, 2009, 2:07 > > PM > > > > > > Normally they carry longer ones, I > > > > > > tried ordering that type of light > > > > > > from DFS.com but it kept arriving > > broken no > > > > matter how they > > > > > > shipped it > > > > > > (granted it had no protection around > > the bulbs so > > > > they were > > > > > > just banging > > > > > > around in the fixture until it got > > here, and of > > > > course they > > > > > > arrived > > > > > > broken). After the 2nd time arriving > > broken I > > > > said > > > > > > nevermind, sent it > > > > > > back and waited for my refund (which > > took about a > > > > month > > > > > > *sigh*), then I > > > > > > got a much better light from > > marinedepot.com and > > > > it arrived > > > > > > in perfect > > > > > > condition and I LOVE the light better > > than the > > > > one I > > > > > > pointed out for > > > > > > sale, but the one on sale is a decent > > light too, > > > > just a > > > > > > step down from > > > > > > the one I ended up getting (which > > includes it's > > > > own timer, > > > > > > and legs to > > > > > > prop the light fixture up, whereas the > > other one > > > > just sets > > > > > > on top of > > > > > > your aquarium lid). > > > > > > > > > > > > Amber > > > > > > > > > > > > Donna Ransome wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Thatﾃ｢竄ｬ邃｢s the > > fixture I have too on all > > > > tanks, but my > > > > > > fixtures are longer. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > _____ > > > > > > > > > > > > > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On > > > > > > > Behalf Of Amber Berglund > > > > > > > Sent: Friday, October 16, 2009 > > 9:50 PM > > > > > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] OOPS re > > green > > > > water > > > > > > > > > > > > > > If you ever want to increase your > > lighting > > > > even more > > > > > > with CFL bulbs you > > > > > > > can find better bulbs with a > > better light > > > > spectrum. I > > > > > > actually have the > > > > > > > same bulbs in my light fixture, I > > use the > > > > straight pin > > > > > > on the fixture on > > > > > > > my 55 gallon and the 125 gallon > > has square > > > > pin lights. > > > > > > I've found that > > > > > > > there's a better selection for > > straight pin > > > > bulbs on > > > > > > marinedepot.com > > > > > > > than square pin (and the prices > > are usually > > > > better). > > > > > > > Oh and while I'm talking about > > > > marinedepot.com they > > > > > > are running a sale > > > > > > > on a light fixture that has CFL > > bulbs and > > > > LED night > > > > > > lighting all in one. > > > > > > > They only go from 24-36 inches > > though, but > > > > they are > > > > > > all on sale. > > > > > > > http://www.marinede > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > <http://www.marinedepot.com/24_inch_2x65_Watt_Current_USA_PowerCompact_Dual_ > <http://www.marinedepot.com/24_inch_2x65_Watt_Current_USA_PowerCompact_Dual_> > > > > > > <http://www.marinedepot.com/24_inch_2x65_Watt_Current_USA_PowerCompact_Dual_ > <http://www.marinedepot.com/24_inch_2x65_Watt_Current_USA_PowerCompact_Dual_>> > > > > > > > > > > > > > <http://www.marinedepot.com/24_inch_2x65_Watt_Current_USA_PowerCompact_Dual_ > <http://www.marinedepot.com/24_inch_2x65_Watt_Current_USA_PowerCompact_Dual_> > > > > > > <http://www.marinedepot.com/24_inch_2x65_Watt_Current_USA_PowerCompact_Dual_ > <http://www.marinedepot.com/24_inch_2x65_Watt_Current_USA_PowerCompact_Dual_>>> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > <http://www.marinedepot.com/24_inch_2x65_Watt_Current_USA_PowerCompact_Dual_ > <http://www.marinedepot.com/24_inch_2x65_Watt_Current_USA_PowerCompact_Dual_> > > > > > > <http://www.marinedepot.com/24_inch_2x65_Watt_Current_USA_PowerCompact_Dual_ > <http://www.marinedepot.com/24_inch_2x65_Watt_Current_USA_PowerCompact_Dual_>> > > > > > > > > > > > > > <http://www.marinedepot.com/24_inch_2x65_Watt_Current_USA_PowerCompact_Dual_ > <http://www.marinedepot.com/24_inch_2x65_Watt_Current_USA_PowerCompact_Dual_> > > > > > > <http://www.marinedepot.com/24_inch_2x65_Watt_Current_USA_PowerCompact_Dual_ > <http://www.marinedepot.com/24_inch_2x65_Watt_Current_USA_PowerCompact_Dual_>>>> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Satellite_Fixture_24_Inch_Power_Compact_Light_Fixtures-Current_USA-CU01011-F > > > > > > > ILTFIPCTF-CU01013-vi.html> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > pot.com/24_inch_2x65_Watt_Current_USA_PowerCompact_Dual_Satellite_Fixture_24 > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > _Inch_Power_Compact_Light_Fixtures-Current_USA-CU01011-FILTFIPCTF-CU01013-vi > > > > > > > .html > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Amber > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Lainey Alexander wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Thanks, Amber - they are > > tubes that > > > > reach the > > > > > > length of the tank. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Lainey > > > > > > > > http://www.grasslan <http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com > <http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com> > > > <http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com > <http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com>> > > > > > <http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com > <http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com> > > > <http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com > <http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com>>> > > > > > > > <http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com > <http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com> > > > <http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com > <http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com>> > > > > > <http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com > <http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com> > > > <http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com > <http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com>>>>> > > > > > > dsgouldians.com > > > > > > > <http://www.grasslan <http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com > <http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com> > > > <http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com > <http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com>> > > > > > <http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com > <http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com> > > > <http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com > <http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com>>> > > > > > > > <http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com > <http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com> > > > <http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com > <http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com>> > > > > > <http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com > <http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com> > > > <http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com > <http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com>>>>> > > > > > > dsgouldians.com> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > On Oct 16, 2009, at 9:35 PM, > > Amber > > > > Berglund > > > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > those are CFL bulbs, so > > you have > > > > more than > > > > > > enough lighting for your 37 > > > > > > > > > gallon if you have 1 > > bulb on each > > > > side of > > > > > > the tank. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Amber > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Lainey Alexander wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > All I can see is > > "coralife 65 > > > > watt > > > > > > 6700k" - each bulb has two tubes, > > > > > > > > > > and they don't > > quite make a U > > > > turn but > > > > > > they are connected by a small > > > > > > > > > > bridge that seems > > to be part > > > > of the > > > > > > bulb itself. Does this tell us > > > > > > > > > > anything? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Lainey > > > > > > > > > > http://www.grasslan > <http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com <http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com> > > > <http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com > <http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com>> > > > > > <http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com > <http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com> > > > <http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com > <http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com>>> > > > > > > > <http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com > <http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com> > > > <http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com > <http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com>> > > > > > <http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com > <http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com> > > > <http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com > <http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com>>>>> > > > > > > > dsgouldians.com > > > > > > > > <http://www.grasslan <http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com > <http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com> > > > <http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com > <http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com>> > > > > > <http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com > <http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com> > > > <http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com > <http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com>>> > > > > > > > <http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com > <http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com> > > > <http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com > <http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com>> > > > > > <http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com > <http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com> > > > <http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com > <http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com>>>>> > > > > > > dsgouldians.com> > > > > > > > <http:// > > > > > > > > > > > www.grasslandsgouldians.com> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > On Oct 16, 2009, at > > 2:37 PM, > > > > Lenny V. > > > > > > aka GoldLenny wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Long straight > > tubes with > > > > pins on > > > > > > each end? Many other bulbs also > > > > > > > > > > > have pins > > > > > > > > > > > but CFL's only > > have them > > > > on one > > > > > > end and the tube usually makes > > > > > > > > > a U- > > > > > > > > > > > turn and > > > > > > > > > > > comes back to > > the same > > > > fitting. > > > > > > They should have a brand and item > > > > > > > > > > > number on > > > > > > > > > > > them... or > > something > > > > else... but > > > > > > they are probably just standard > > > > > > > > > > > fluorescent > > > > > > > > > > > tubes. You > > would have to > > > > turn the > > > > > > fixture over and look at the > > > > > > > > > > > bulbs... > > > > > > > > > > > maybe even > > removing one > > > > to look > > > > > > for the writing on the glass on > > > > > > > > > one > > > > > > > > > > > end of > > > > > > > > > > > the tube. It > > > > might/should even > > > > > > have a T-__ code which is a > > > > > > > > > standard > > > > > > > > > > > coding > > > > > > > > > > > now for > > fluorescent > > > > tubes. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > You need to > > know this > > > > information > > > > > > as, depending on the brand/type/ > > > > > > > > > > > etc., you > > > > > > > > > > > might have to > > replace > > > > these bulbs > > > > > > every six months or so. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Lenny > > Vasbinder > > > > > > > > > > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny. > > > > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>> > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>>> > > > > > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>> > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>>>>> > > > > > > > blogspot.com > > > > > > > > <http://GoldLenny. > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>> > > > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>>> > > > > > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>> > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>>>>> > > > > > > blogspot.com> > > > > > > > > > > <http://GoldLenny. > > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>> > > > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>>> > > > > > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>> > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>>>>> > > > > > > blogspot.com > > > > > > > <http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>> > > > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>>> > > > > > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>> > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>>>>> > > > > > > blogspot.com>> > > > > > > > > > > > (Links to any > > articles > > > > referenced > > > > > > in above reply are listed on the > > > > > > > > > > > right > > > > > > > > > > > side, > > alphabetically > > > > under Labels > > > > > > and also under Archives by Year, > > > > > > > > > > > Month) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -----Original > > > > Message----- > > > > > > > > > > > From: > > AquaticLife@ > > > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > yahoogroups.com > > > > > > > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > > > > > > > [mailto:AquaticLife@ > > > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > yahoogroups.com > > > > > > > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On > > > > > > > > > > > Behalf Of > > Lainey > > > > Alexander > > > > > > > > > > > Sent: Friday, > > October > > > > 16, 2009 > > > > > > 10:17 AM > > > > > > > > > > > To: > > AquaticLife@ > > > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > yahoogroups.com > > > > > > > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife% > > > > > > > > > 40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > > > > > Subject: Re: > > > > [AquaticLife] OOPS re > > > > > > green water > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Lenny - > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > As far as I > > know, I have > > > > regular > > > > > > standard fluorescents, they are > > > > > > > > > > > the ones > > > > > > > > > > > with the pins > > - 65 > > > > watts, two > > > > > > bulbs, 6700k each. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Lainey > > > > > > > > > > > http://www.grasslan > > > <http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com > <http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com> > <http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com <http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com>> > > > > > <http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com > <http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com> > > > <http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com > <http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com>>> > > > > > > > <http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com > <http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com> > > > <http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com > <http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com>> > > > > > <http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com > <http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com> > > > <http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com > <http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com>>>>> > > > > > > > dsgouldians.com > > > > > > > > <http://www.grasslan <http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com > <http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com> > > > <http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com > <http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com>> > > > > > <http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com > <http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com> > > > <http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com > <http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com>>> > > > > > > > <http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com > <http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com> > > > <http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com > <http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com>> > > > > > <http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com > <http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com> > > > <http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com > <http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com>>>>> > > > > > > dsgouldians.com> > > > > > > > <http:// > > > > > > > > > > > www.grasslandsgouldians.com> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > On Oct 16, > > 2009, at 1:16 > > > > AM, Lenny > > > > > > V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Lets > > see... my > > > > first thoughts > > > > > > would be... > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > http://images. > > > > > > > <http://images.veer.com/IMG/PILL/MAI/MAI0002683_P.JPG > <http://images.veer.com/IMG/PILL/MAI/MAI0002683_P.JPG> > > > <http://images.veer.com/IMG/PILL/MAI/MAI0002683_P.JPG > <http://images.veer.com/IMG/PILL/MAI/MAI0002683_P.JPG>> > > > > > <http://images.veer.com/IMG/PILL/MAI/MAI0002683_P.JPG > <http://images.veer.com/IMG/PILL/MAI/MAI0002683_P.JPG> > > > <http://images.veer.com/IMG/PILL/MAI/MAI0002683_P.JPG > <http://images.veer.com/IMG/PILL/MAI/MAI0002683_P.JPG>>> > > > > > > > <http://images.veer.com/IMG/PILL/MAI/MAI0002683_P.JPG > <http://images.veer.com/IMG/PILL/MAI/MAI0002683_P.JPG> > > > <http://images.veer.com/IMG/PILL/MAI/MAI0002683_P.JPG > <http://images.veer.com/IMG/PILL/MAI/MAI0002683_P.JPG>> > > > > > <http://images.veer.com/IMG/PILL/MAI/MAI0002683_P.JPG > <http://images.veer.com/IMG/PILL/MAI/MAI0002683_P.JPG> > > > <http://images.veer.com/IMG/PILL/MAI/MAI0002683_P.JPG > <http://images.veer.com/IMG/PILL/MAI/MAI0002683_P.JPG>>>>> > > > > > > > > > veer.com/IMG/PILL/MAI/MAI0002683_P.JPG > > > > > > > > <http://images. > > > > > > > <http://images.veer.com/IMG/PILL/MAI/MAI0002683_P.JPG > <http://images.veer.com/IMG/PILL/MAI/MAI0002683_P.JPG> > > > <http://images.veer.com/IMG/PILL/MAI/MAI0002683_P.JPG > <http://images.veer.com/IMG/PILL/MAI/MAI0002683_P.JPG>> > > > > > <http://images.veer.com/IMG/PILL/MAI/MAI0002683_P.JPG > <http://images.veer.com/IMG/PILL/MAI/MAI0002683_P.JPG> > > > <http://images.veer.com/IMG/PILL/MAI/MAI0002683_P.JPG > <http://images.veer.com/IMG/PILL/MAI/MAI0002683_P.JPG>>> > > > > > > > <http://images.veer.com/IMG/PILL/MAI/MAI0002683_P.JPG > <http://images.veer.com/IMG/PILL/MAI/MAI0002683_P.JPG> > > > <http://images.veer.com/IMG/PILL/MAI/MAI0002683_P.JPG > <http://images.veer.com/IMG/PILL/MAI/MAI0002683_P.JPG>> > > > > > <http://images.veer.com/IMG/PILL/MAI/MAI0002683_P.JPG > <http://images.veer.com/IMG/PILL/MAI/MAI0002683_P.JPG> > > > <http://images.veer.com/IMG/PILL/MAI/MAI0002683_P.JPG > <http://images.veer.com/IMG/PILL/MAI/MAI0002683_P.JPG>>>>> > > > > > > > > > veer.com/IMG/PILL/MAI/MAI0002683_P.JPG> > > > > > > > > > > <http://images. > > > > > > > <http://images.veer.com/IMG/PILL/MAI/MAI0002683_P.JPG > <http://images.veer.com/IMG/PILL/MAI/MAI0002683_P.JPG> > > > <http://images.veer.com/IMG/PILL/MAI/MAI0002683_P.JPG > <http://images.veer.com/IMG/PILL/MAI/MAI0002683_P.JPG>> > > > > > <http://images.veer.com/IMG/PILL/MAI/MAI0002683_P.JPG > <http://images.veer.com/IMG/PILL/MAI/MAI0002683_P.JPG> > > > <http://images.veer.com/IMG/PILL/MAI/MAI0002683_P.JPG > <http://images.veer.com/IMG/PILL/MAI/MAI0002683_P.JPG>>> > > > > > > > <http://images.veer.com/IMG/PILL/MAI/MAI0002683_P.JPG > <http://images.veer.com/IMG/PILL/MAI/MAI0002683_P.JPG> > > > <http://images.veer.com/IMG/PILL/MAI/MAI0002683_P.JPG > <http://images.veer.com/IMG/PILL/MAI/MAI0002683_P.JPG>> > > > > > <http://images.veer.com/IMG/PILL/MAI/MAI0002683_P.JPG > <http://images.veer.com/IMG/PILL/MAI/MAI0002683_P.JPG> > > > <http://images.veer.com/IMG/PILL/MAI/MAI0002683_P.JPG > <http://images.veer.com/IMG/PILL/MAI/MAI0002683_P.JPG>>>>> > > > > > > > > > veer.com/IMG/PILL/MAI/MAI0002683_P.JPG > > > > > > > > <http://images. > > > > > > > <http://images.veer.com/IMG/PILL/MAI/MAI0002683_P.JPG > <http://images.veer.com/IMG/PILL/MAI/MAI0002683_P.JPG> > > > <http://images.veer.com/IMG/PILL/MAI/MAI0002683_P.JPG > <http://images.veer.com/IMG/PILL/MAI/MAI0002683_P.JPG>> > > > > > <http://images.veer.com/IMG/PILL/MAI/MAI0002683_P.JPG > <http://images.veer.com/IMG/PILL/MAI/MAI0002683_P.JPG> > > > <http://images.veer.com/IMG/PILL/MAI/MAI0002683_P.JPG > <http://images.veer.com/IMG/PILL/MAI/MAI0002683_P.JPG>>> > > > > > > > <http://images.veer.com/IMG/PILL/MAI/MAI0002683_P.JPG > <http://images.veer.com/IMG/PILL/MAI/MAI0002683_P.JPG> > > > <http://images.veer.com/IMG/PILL/MAI/MAI0002683_P.JPG > <http://images.veer.com/IMG/PILL/MAI/MAI0002683_P.JPG>> > > > > > <http://images.veer.com/IMG/PILL/MAI/MAI0002683_P.JPG > <http://images.veer.com/IMG/PILL/MAI/MAI0002683_P.JPG> > > > <http://images.veer.com/IMG/PILL/MAI/MAI0002683_P.JPG > <http://images.veer.com/IMG/PILL/MAI/MAI0002683_P.JPG>>>>> > > > > > > > > > > > veer.com/IMG/PILL/MAI/MAI0002683_P.JPG>> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > (maybe > > without the > > > > Parrot as > > > > > > an eye witness... lol... ;-)) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > It's good > > to hear > > > > you have a > > > > > > 30" x 12" footprint but you need to > > > > > > > > > > > quit > > > > > > > > > > > > using the > > "depth" > > > > term for > > > > > > the front to back measurement, > > > > > > > > > although > > > > > > > > > > > > that is a > > common > > > > term to use > > > > > > for measuring other physical > > > > > > > > > items, for > > > > > > > > > > > > > > aquariums, because > > > > of the > > > > > > water, "depth" can easily be > > > > > > > > > > > misconstrued > > to > > > > > > > > > > > > be the > > depth of the > > > > water. > > > > > > This is why the standard for aquarium > > > > > > > > > > > > > > measurement is L x > > > > W x H > > > > > > (Length by Width by Height). I know > > the > > > > > > > > > > > > "width" > > part can be > > > > confusing > > > > > > also since that would be the long > > > > > > > > > > > sides > > > > > > > > > > > > of most > > aquarium > > > > where we > > > > > > commonly use the long sides as the > > > > > > > > > length > > > > > > > > > > > > and the > > front to > > > > back > > > > > > measurement as the width. > > > > > > > > > > > > Don't ask > > me who > > > > invented > > > > > > this standard. LOL > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > At least > > with the > > > > 30" x 12" > > > > > > footprint and only 23" tall and your > > > > > > > > > > > tank > > > > > > > > > > > > is still > > based on > > > > the same > > > > > > footprint as a 20G but at least > > > > > > > > > it's a > > > > > > > > > > > 20G > > > > > > > > > > > > LONG > > footprint > > > > instead of a > > > > > > regular 20G footprint. It's also not > > > > > > > > > > > > nearly as > > tall as > > > > what you > > > > > > originally said was a 30" tall > > > > > > > > > tank so > > > > > > > > > > > this > > > > > > > > > > > > makes > > your lighting > > > > more > > > > > > practical... BUT... you still DO NOT > > > > > > > > > > > need 5" > > > > > > > > > > > > to 7" of > > gravel. > > > > > > > > > > > > Still > > > > > > > > > > > > cut this > > back to 2" > > > > to 3". > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I do not > > recall if > > > > you ever > > > > > > listed details on your lighting > > > > > > > > > other > > > > > > > > > > > than > > > > > > > > > > > > saying > > you had two > > > > 65W > > > > > > fluorescent bulbs. Are they standard > > > > > > > > > > > > > > fluorescent > > > > bulbs... long > > > > > > single tubes with two pins on each > > > > > > > > > end? > > > > > > > > > > > Look > > > > > > > > > > > > on the > > bulbs for > > > > any item > > > > > > numbers, brand names, etc. and let us > > > > > > > > > > > know. > > > > > > > > > > > > From what > > I can see > > > > on the > > > > > > net, it looks like you could > > > > > > > > > either have > > > > > > > > > > > > 65W CFL's > > instead > > > > of standard > > > > > > fluorescent bulbs but they do also > > > > > > > > > > > have > > > > > > > > > > > > a T-10 > > 65W > > > > Fluorescent tube. > > > > > > While they are both called 65W > > > > > > > > > (watt), > > > > > > > > > > > > the CFL's > > would put > > > > out 2-3 > > > > > > times more light (lumens) than > > > > > > > > > standard > > > > > > > > > > > > > > fluorescent tubes. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Lenny > > Vasbinder > > > > > > > > > > > > Fish Blog > > - http://GoldLenny. > > > > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>> > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>>> > > > > > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>> > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>>>>> > > > > > > > blogspot.com > > > > > > > > <http://GoldLenny. > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>> > > > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>>> > > > > > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>> > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>>>>> > > > > > > blogspot.com> > > > > > > > > > > <http://GoldLenny. > > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>> > > > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>>> > > > > > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>> > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>>>>> > > > > > > blogspot.com > > > > > > > <http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>> > > > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>>> > > > > > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>> > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>>>>> > > > > > > blogspot.com>> > > > > > > > > (Links to any articles > > > > > > > > > > > > > > referenced in above > > > > reply are > > > > > > listed on the right side, > > > > > > > > > > > > > alphabetically > > > > > > > > > > > > under > > Labels and > > > > also under > > > > > > Archives by Year, > > > > > > > > > > > > Month) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -----Original > > > > Message----- > > > > > > > > > > > > From: > > AquaticLife@ > > > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > yahoogroups.com > > > > > > > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > [mailto:AquaticLife@ > > > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > yahoogroups.com > > > > > > > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On > > > > Behalf Of > > > > > > Lainey > > > > > > > > > Alexander > > > > > > > > > > > > Sent: > > Thursday, > > > > October 15, > > > > > > 2009 8:38 PM > > > > > > > > > > > > To: > > AquaticLife@ > > > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > yahoogroups.com > > > > > > > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife% > > > > > > > > > 40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > > > > > > Subject: > > > > [AquaticLife] OOPS > > > > > > re green water > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I just > > realized > > > > that I > > > > > > completely goofed on these > > measurements > > > > > > > > > > > > (below), > > which is > > > > why > > > > > > everyone has been so adamant about my > > > > > > > > > crazy > > > > > > > > > > > tank > > > > > > > > > > > > shape! > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > The > > height is 23, > > > > the WIDTH > > > > > > is 30 and the depth is 12. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I'm so > > sorry to > > > > make everyone > > > > > > talk about something that was > > > > > > > > > > > incorrect > > > > > > > > > > > > this > > whole time. > > > > But now, can > > > > > > you all let me know if this is > > > > > > > > > a much > > > > > > > > > > > > more > > reasonable > > > > depth please? > > > > > > Does this change my bioload > > > > > > > > > issues at > > > > > > > > > > > > all? > > > > > > > > > > > > Does it > > > > > > > > > > > > change > > the > > > > appropriateness of > > > > > > my lights? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > In five > > weeks > > > > several of my > > > > > > plants are near the top of the > > > > > > > > > water, > > > > > > > > > > > so I > > > > > > > > > > > > think > > they must be > > > > fairly > > > > > > happy with the light. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > My > > apologies for > > > > being > > > > > > careless. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Lainey > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Tank > > > > measurements are 30 > > > > > > high, 23 wide and 12 deep. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Fluorescent > > > > lights, 2 > > > > > > @65 watts and 6700k - on 12 and off 12 > > > > > > > > > > > > which is > > > > > > > > > > > > > what > > I have > > > > been told my > > > > > > plants require... > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I > > used > > > > Activ-Flora > > > > > > gravel, and this contains non-nitrogen > > > > > > > > > > > fertilizer > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > plus > > > > "instant-cycling" > > > > > > bacteria > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Not > > dosing > > > > with any > > > > > > chemicals or ferts > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > *** > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions > > of this > > > > message have > > > > > > been removed] > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this > > message have > > > > been > > > > > > removed] > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message > > have been > > > > removed] > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ------------------------------------ > > > > > > > > > > > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING > > below it > > > > when > > > > > > replying, Thank You. > > > > > > > > > > > > ﾃつｷﾃつｴﾃつｯ`ﾃつｷ.ﾃつｸﾃつｸ.><((((ﾃつｺ>.ﾃつｷﾃつｴﾃつｯ`ﾃつｷ.ﾃつｸﾃつｸ.ﾃ > つｷﾃつｴﾃつｯ` ﾃつｷ.ﾃつｸ><((((ﾃつｺ> > > > > > > > > ﾃつｸ.ﾃつｷﾃつｴﾃつｯ`ﾃつｷ.ﾃつｸ. > > , > > > > > > .ﾃつｷﾃつｴﾃつｯ`ﾃつｷ..><((((ﾃつｺ> > > > > > > PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, > > DELETE all TEXT > > > > that is > > > > > > NOT important to the reply & if > > CHANGING the > > > > TOPIC of > > > > > > the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT > > LINE > > > > -> i.e. "new > > > > > > subject (was re: old subject)" <- > > > > > > > > > > > > <ﾃつｺ((((><.ﾃつｷﾃつｴﾃつｯ`ﾃつｷ.ﾃつｸﾃつｸ.ﾃつｷﾃつｴﾃつｯ`ﾃつｷ.ﾃつｸ<ﾃつｺ > ((((><ﾃつｸ.ﾃつｷﾃつｴﾃつｯ`ﾃつｷ.ﾃつｸ. > > > > > > , > > > > > > .ﾃつｷﾃつｴﾃつｯ`ﾃつｷ..<ﾃつｺ((((><ﾃつｷﾃつｴﾃつｯ`ﾃつｷ.ﾃつｸﾃつｸ. > > > > > > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP > > in this > > > > matter. > > > > > > > > > > > > If you do not want all of the groups > > emails, > > > > instead of > > > > > > unsubscribing, you can change your > > delivery > > > > option by > > > > > > clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the > > home > > > > page. > > > > > > > > > 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e-mails.Yahoo! > > Groups > > > > Links > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > mailto:AquaticLife-fullfeatured@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife-fullfeatured%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife-fullfeatured%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife-fullfeatured%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ------------------------------------ > > > > > > > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it > > when > > > > replying, Thank You. > > > > > > ﾂｷﾂｴﾂｯ`ﾂｷ.ﾂｸﾂｸ.><((((ﾂｺ>.ﾂｷﾂｴﾂｯ`ﾂｷ.ﾂｸﾂｸ.ﾂｷﾂｴﾂｯ`ﾂｷ.ﾂｸ>< ((((ﾂｺ> > > > > ﾂｸ.ﾂｷﾂｴﾂｯ`ﾂｷ.ﾂｸ. , > > .ﾂｷﾂｴﾂｯ`ﾂｷ..><((((ﾂｺ> > > > > PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT > > that is > > > > NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the > > TOPIC of > > > > the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE > > -> i.e. "new > > > > subject (was re: old subject)" <- > > > > > > <ﾂｺ((((><.ﾂｷﾂｴﾂｯ`ﾂｷ.ﾂｸﾂｸ.ﾂｷﾂｴﾂｯ`ﾂｷ.ﾂｸ<ﾂｺ((((><ﾂｸ.ﾂｷﾂｴﾂｯ`ﾂｷ.ﾂｸ. > > 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Group: AquaticLife	Message: 43939	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 10/17/2009
Subject: Re: OOPS re green water

Amber, I was, as Bill often is, confused when I saw you mentioning T4 as a designation for a fluorescent bulb. I went looking around to see what that was. On Wikipedia, I found there was indeed a T4, and also a T2, which I believe I have seen before, but never gave it a thought. For those who are not going to the links I will provide below, The T stands for a Tube type bulb, and the number indicates the diameter of the bulb in 1/8 inches. Thus, a T4 is a tube type bulb that is 1/2 inch in diameter. There are also T12 (1 1/2" in diameter), T8 (1"), and T5 (5/8") bulbs. The Wikipedia has a whole slew of information at http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fluorescent_lamp#Tube_designations http://tinyurl.com/ykcht72 Be sure to follow the other links on the page for more info about bases of fluorescent bulbs. Another site I found that had a lot of info on lighting was this one: http://www.lightsearch.com/resources/lightguides/index.html http://tinyurl.com/ygn65w5 \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Amber Berglund Sent: Saturday, October 17, 2009 9:28 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] OOPS re green water I see then, and as far as I'm concerned any light bulb is a bulb even if it plugs in and not screws in ;) LOL. Well I can see the problem you would have with that light, and since I'm not sure if it's a HO or VHO t-4, or even if you can find that type at one of your local stores, I would honestly suggest upgrading your hood. You can use the fixture itself as a shell and get a retrofit CFL kit from somewhere like marinedepot.com (I can't have the retrofit kits shipped to alaska, I think they are oversized or something weird, either way they are not shippable to me, so I had to buy a whole new fixture). Just make sure to get a CFL kit that's the same length or smaller than the light fixture it will go inside ;) Also after looking at marinedepot, they have another sale on a light fixture. If I were you I'd keep an eye on their site and see if one of the light fixtures you want comes up for sale. This one is a coralife HO (so it would be fluorescents) but it has 2 strips of lights, you will have to replace the bulbs though as they are not the proper spectrum for plants, it comes with a 10000 kelvin daylight and an actinic, you would want to replace the actinic at least with a 6500 or 6700 kelvin bulb instead for proper plant growth. http://www.marinedepot.com/ps_viewItem.aspx?idProduct=ES08600&utm_source=mdhfl091009b4&utm_medium=mdfl&utm_term=mdhflAqualight091009b4rt1&utm_content=mdhflb4rt1&utm_campaign=mdhfl It comes in 24 inches up to 48 inches, so it should have a size that will fit your tank. No night lights on this fixture, or a built in timer, but you can get around that with a simple light timer. I honestly prefer the CFL bulbs, but the HO T-5's or better are cheaper to replace than CFL's, but you will have to replace them every few months (6 months max or so I have heard) because they start to get dimmer over age, whereas CFL's don't have this issue, they just burn out eventually. So it's all a matter of how much money you want to save in the end, you'd have to buy more fluorescent bulbs more often, but the fixture's are cheaper than the CFL fixtures. You probably bought one of the planted substrates I assume? the gravel that comes in a brownish-red or black and has added nutrients for plants? Amber bill 1433 wrote: > > > Bear with me here Amber. I'm going to try answering using MSWord > and then cut and paste over to group to make sure I answer all your > questions in the order that you asked them. > > Now here is an interesting play on words. Most times when a person > says bulb you think of screwing it in, as opposed to clipping as in a > tube, correct? > > I have been entertaining the planted tank concept for a while and most > recently had yet another failure with it. This was mainly, again > because of, not enough light and incorrect light. Also you may > consider for here on out, when we are talking about the tank I would > be working with its size is a standard 20-gallon long. As I mentioned, > it does have a hood/cover from AGA. However, the 17-watt tube, even at > the 12 1/2" depth of this tank is not enough to insure good or any > plant growth. The last plants I tried were just plain simple water sprite. > > Substrate wise, although my size it good, over-all I'm told that for these > type of tanks to be successful another product is better but it's > proper name eludes me at the moment. Again the light fixture came > complete with a hood, which has a glass insert on top. The light > fixture then fits on top of this. It is a 17-watt tube not bulb. > > Right now the tank is running as a "Q" tank, stripped with no gravel > and a PF and sponge filter running. With all the problems with fish > that I had before, at this point I'm not sure I want to give up the > security of having one if you know what I mean. > This is just thinking out loud at this point. > > Bill > > --- On Sat, 10/17/09, Amber Berglund <arberglund@... > <mailto:arberglund%40gmail.com>> wrote: > > > From: Amber Berglund <arberglund@... > <mailto:arberglund%40gmail.com>> > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] OOPS re green water > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > Date: Saturday, October 17, 2009, 5:26 PM > > I use CFL light bulbs mostly. I think > > one of my 10 gallon tanks has a > > smaller CFL bulb too... The only one that has regular > > fluorescents is my > > 55 gallon that I got as a kit from walmart. So walmart > > would carry > > replacement lighting for it, but it's not HO or VHO lights, > > just > > regular, and honestly I'm not even sure what the watts are, > > but I'm > > probably around 1 watt per gallon, which is why it has > > mostly crypts a > > couple aponogettons, java fern and 1 sword of some type. > > They're all low > > light plants. > > > > Have you been thinking about switching to a planted tank > > lately Bill? I > > think you said at one time that the plants you have are all > > fake right now. > > > > If you want to switch over it's not going to be easy, you > > will have to > > do a tank tear down so you have a decent substrate in it > > instead of just > > gravel. Every time I've tried just using gravel all my > > plants started to > > die off, I gave up and switched all but my 10 gallon tanks > > to Walstad > > natural planted tanks. One trick to doing this is picking > > smaller gravel > > (like smaller than a frozen pea, but not much smaller than > > that), I have > > what is called "pea gravel" from the local hardware store > > and it's just > > large enough and heavy enough that the plants have a hard > > time growing > > up and through the gravel if it's sprouting a new/baby > > plant. The gravel > > seems just a little too large. In the 125 gallon tank I > > have the normal > > "rainbow gravel" that you see at most LFS/walmart for use > > in fish tanks, > > and the plants grow much faster and spread much faster > > (such as my vals, > > darn thing is trying to take over but in the 55 gallon with > > the larger > > gravel it doesn't even take root, it's floating and > > spreading on runners > > through the tank, but none of the runners are taking root > > into the > > gravel/soil, I think they can't get through the gravel or > > something). > > > > Did your light fixture come as a kit, or was it used? Do > > you have any > > info on it so we could find out what bulbs you need to > > replace it with? > > > > Amber > > > > bill 1433 wrote: > > > > > > > > > Why not? Might serve to clear things up for lots > > > of folks, me included. > > > > > > Problems here with size still. I think more > > investigation on > > > my part. Even Len's suggestion at taking with tube > > "with" may not > > > help. Right size yes, but maybe wrong or not strong > > enough wattage. > > > Result? I'm right back where I started from. More > > reading and > > > more checking, this thing can't be this hard. I'm told > > even a > > > twelve year old can have a planted tank. Ah to be > > young again! > > > > > > Bill > > > ------------------------<snip>----------------------------

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 43940	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 10/17/2009
Subject: Re: OOPS re green water

Dang Bill.... I think you got BURNED!!!! (A lil 70's lingo there, that I learned from "That 70's Show"... lol) Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Steve Szabo Sent: Saturday, October 17, 2009 9:40 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] OOPS re green water Amber, I was, as Bill often is, confused when I saw you mentioning T4 as a designation for a fluorescent bulb. I went looking around to see what that was. On Wikipedia, I found there was indeed a T4, and also a T2, which I believe I have seen before, but never gave it a thought. For those who are not going to the links I will provide below, The T stands for a Tube type bulb, and the number indicates the diameter of the bulb in 1/8 inches. Thus, a T4 is a tube type bulb that is 1/2 inch in diameter. There are also T12 (1 1/2" in diameter), T8 (1"), and T5 (5/8") bulbs. The Wikipedia has a whole slew of information at http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fluorescent_lamp#Tube_designations http://tinyurl.com/ykcht72 Be sure to follow the other links on the page for more info about bases of fluorescent bulbs. Another site I found that had a lot of info on lighting was this one: http://www.lightsearch.com/resources/lightguides/index.html http://tinyurl.com/ygn65w5 \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Amber Berglund Sent: Saturday, October 17, 2009 9:28 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] OOPS re green water I see then, and as far as I'm concerned any light bulb is a bulb even if it plugs in and not screws in ;) LOL. Well I can see the problem you would have with that light, and since I'm not sure if it's a HO or VHO t-4, or even if you can find that type at one of your local stores, I would honestly suggest upgrading your hood. You can use the fixture itself as a shell and get a retrofit CFL kit from somewhere like marinedepot.com (I can't have the retrofit kits shipped to alaska, I think they are oversized or something weird, either way they are not shippable to me, so I had to buy a whole new fixture). Just make sure to get a CFL kit that's the same length or smaller than the light fixture it will go inside ;) Also after looking at marinedepot, they have another sale on a light fixture. If I were you I'd keep an eye on their site and see if one of the light fixtures you want comes up for sale. This one is a coralife HO (so it would be fluorescents) but it has 2 strips of lights, you will have to replace the bulbs though as they are not the proper spectrum for plants, it comes with a 10000 kelvin daylight and an actinic, you would want to replace the actinic at least with a 6500 or 6700 kelvin bulb instead for proper plant growth. http://www.marinedepot.com/ps_viewItem.aspx?idProduct=ES08600&utm_source=mdh fl091009b4&utm_medium=mdfl&utm_term=mdhflAqualight091009b4rt1&utm_content=md hflb4rt1&utm_campaign=mdhfl It comes in 24 inches up to 48 inches, so it should have a size that will fit your tank. No night lights on this fixture, or a built in timer, but you can get around that with a simple light timer. I honestly prefer the CFL bulbs, but the HO T-5's or better are cheaper to replace than CFL's, but you will have to replace them every few months (6 months max or so I have heard) because they start to get dimmer over age, whereas CFL's don't have this issue, they just burn out eventually. So it's all a matter of how much money you want to save in the end, you'd have to buy more fluorescent bulbs more often, but the fixture's are cheaper than the CFL fixtures. You probably bought one of the planted substrates I assume? the gravel that comes in a brownish-red or black and has added nutrients for plants? Amber bill 1433 wrote: > > > Bear with me here Amber. I'm going to try answering using MSWord and > then cut and paste over to group to make sure I answer all your > questions in the order that you asked them. > > Now here is an interesting play on words. Most times when a person > says bulb you think of screwing it in, as opposed to clipping as in a > tube, correct? > > I have been entertaining the planted tank concept for a while and most > recently had yet another failure with it. This was mainly, again > because of, not enough light and incorrect light. Also you may > consider for here on out, when we are talking about the tank I would > be working with its size is a standard 20-gallon long. As I mentioned, > it does have a hood/cover from AGA. However, the 17-watt tube, even at > the 12 1/2" depth of this tank is not enough to insure good or any > plant growth. The last plants I tried were just plain simple water sprite. > > Substrate wise, although my size it good, over-all I'm told that for > these type of tanks to be successful another product is better but > it's proper name eludes me at the moment. Again the light fixture came > complete with a hood, which has a glass insert on top. The light > fixture then fits on top of this. It is a 17-watt tube not bulb. > > Right now the tank is running as a "Q" tank, stripped with no gravel > and a PF and sponge filter running. With all the problems with fish > that I had before, at this point I'm not sure I want to give up the > security of having one if you know what I mean. > This is just thinking out loud at this point. > > Bill > > --- On Sat, 10/17/09, Amber Berglund <arberglund@... > <mailto:arberglund%40gmail.com>> wrote: > > > From: Amber Berglund <arberglund@... > <mailto:arberglund%40gmail.com>> > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] OOPS re green water > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > Date: Saturday, October 17, 2009, 5:26 PM I use CFL light bulbs > > mostly. I think one of my 10 gallon tanks has a smaller CFL bulb > > too... The only one that has regular fluorescents is my > > 55 gallon that I got as a kit from walmart. So walmart would carry > > replacement lighting for it, but it's not HO or VHO lights, just > > regular, and honestly I'm not even sure what the watts are, but I'm > > probably around 1 watt per gallon, which is why it has mostly crypts > > a couple aponogettons, java fern and 1 sword of some type. > > They're all low > > light plants. > > > > Have you been thinking about switching to a planted tank lately > > Bill? I think you said at one time that the plants you have are all > > fake right now. > > > > If you want to switch over it's not going to be easy, you will have > > to do a tank tear down so you have a decent substrate in it instead > > of just gravel. Every time I've tried just using gravel all my > > plants started to die off, I gave up and switched all but my 10 > > gallon tanks to Walstad natural planted tanks. One trick to doing > > this is picking smaller gravel (like smaller than a frozen pea, but > > not much smaller than that), I have what is called "pea gravel" from > > the local hardware store and it's just large enough and heavy enough > > that the plants have a hard time growing up and through the gravel > > if it's sprouting a new/baby plant. The gravel seems just a little > > too large. In the 125 gallon tank I have the normal "rainbow gravel" > > that you see at most LFS/walmart for use in fish tanks, and the > > plants grow much faster and spread much faster (such as my vals, > > darn thing is trying to take over but in the 55 gallon with the > > larger gravel it doesn't even take root, it's floating and spreading > > on runners through the tank, but none of the runners are taking root > > into the gravel/soil, I think they can't get through the gravel or > > something). > > > > Did your light fixture come as a kit, or was it used? Do you have > > any info on it so we could find out what bulbs you need to replace > > it with? > > > > Amber > > > > bill 1433 wrote: > > > > > > > > > Why not? Might serve to clear things up for lots of folks, me > > > included. > > > > > > Problems here with size still. I think more > > investigation on > > > my part. Even Len's suggestion at taking with tube > > "with" may not > > > help. Right size yes, but maybe wrong or not strong > > enough wattage. > > > Result? I'm right back where I started from. More > > reading and > > > more checking, this thing can't be this hard. I'm told > > even a > > > twelve year old can have a planted tank. Ah to be > > young again! > > > > > > Bill > > > ------------------------<snip>---------------------------- ------------------------------------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. `..><((((>.`..`.><((((> .`.. , .`..><((((> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <((((><.`..`.<((((><.`.. , .`..<((((><`.. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the home page. Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com to receive the digest, which includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com for the No E-Mail option where you will still be able to read messages on the group and post replies. Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com to receive individual e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 43941	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 10/17/2009
Subject: Re: OOPS re green water

Bill measured his bulb and I had narrowed it down using a similar site to him having a T-4 type bulb in his current fixture, but the problem is that the bulb is not powerful enough for Bill to have any live plants, as it doesn't even give him 1 watt per gallon. Which is why I suggested replacing just the light fixture part of his AGA hood (most of them have a removeable light fixture I've noticed), and get another AGA light fixture that has 2x T-5 bulbs that are HO and would give him over 2 watts per gallon at least. Then he could at least manage some easy to grow plants. Thanks for the links though, I'm sure they will help Bill too :) Amber Steve Szabo wrote: > > > Amber, > > I was, as Bill often is, confused when I saw you mentioning T4 as a > designation for a fluorescent bulb. I went looking around to see what > that was. On Wikipedia, I found there was indeed a T4, and also a T2, > which I believe I have seen before, but never gave it a thought. For > those who are not going to the links I will provide below, The T > stands for a Tube type bulb, and the number indicates the diameter of > the bulb in 1/8 inches. Thus, a T4 is a tube type bulb that is 1/2 > inch in diameter. There are also T12 (1 1/2" in diameter), T8 (1"), > and T5 (5/8") bulbs. The Wikipedia has a whole slew of information at > http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fluorescent_lamp#Tube_designations > <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fluorescent_lamp#Tube_designations> > http://tinyurl.com/ykcht72 <http://tinyurl.com/ykcht72> > Be sure to follow the other links on the page for more info about > bases of fluorescent bulbs. > > Another site I found that had a lot of info on lighting was this one: > http://www.lightsearch.com/resources/lightguides/index.html > <http://www.lightsearch.com/resources/lightguides/index.html> > http://tinyurl.com/ygn65w5 <http://tinyurl.com/ygn65w5> > > \\Steve// > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On Behalf Of Amber Berglund > Sent: Saturday, October 17, 2009 9:28 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] OOPS re green water > > I see then, and as far as I'm concerned any light bulb is a bulb even if > it plugs in and not screws in ;) LOL. > Well I can see the problem you would have with that light, and since I'm > not sure if it's a HO or VHO t-4, or even if you can find that type at > one of your local stores, I would honestly suggest upgrading your hood. > You can use the fixture itself as a shell and get a retrofit CFL kit > from somewhere like marinedepot.com (I can't have the retrofit kits > shipped to alaska, I think they are oversized or something weird, either > way they are not shippable to me, so I had to buy a whole new fixture). > Just make sure to get a CFL kit that's the same length or smaller than > the light fixture it will go inside ;) > Also after looking at marinedepot, they have another sale on a light > fixture. If I were you I'd keep an eye on their site and see if one of > the light fixtures you want comes up for sale. This one is a coralife HO > (so it would be fluorescents) but it has 2 strips of lights, you will > have to replace the bulbs though as they are not the proper spectrum for > plants, it comes with a 10000 kelvin daylight and an actinic, you would > want to replace the actinic at least with a 6500 or 6700 kelvin bulb > instead for proper plant growth. > http://www.marinedepot.com/ps_viewItem.aspx?idProduct=ES08600&utm_source=mdhfl091009b4&utm_medium=mdfl&utm_term=mdhflAqualight091009b4rt1&utm_content=mdhflb4rt1&utm_campaign=mdhfl > <http://www.marinedepot.com/ps_viewItem.aspx?idProduct=ES08600&utm_source=mdhfl091009b4&utm_medium=mdfl&utm_term=mdhflAqualight091009b4rt1&utm_content=mdhflb4rt1&utm_campaign=mdhfl> > It comes in 24 inches up to 48 inches, so it should have a size that > will fit your tank. No night lights on this fixture, or a built in > timer, but you can get around that with a simple light timer. I honestly > prefer the CFL bulbs, but the HO T-5's or better are cheaper to replace > than CFL's, but you will have to replace them every few months (6 months > max or so I have heard) because they start to get dimmer over age, > whereas CFL's don't have this issue, they just burn out eventually. So > it's all a matter of how much money you want to save in the end, you'd > have to buy more fluorescent bulbs more often, but the fixture's are > cheaper than the CFL fixtures. > You probably bought one of the planted substrates I assume? the gravel > that comes in a brownish-red or black and has added nutrients for plants? > > Amber > > bill 1433 wrote: > > > > > > Bear with me here Amber. I'm going to try answering using MSWord > > and then cut and paste over to group to make sure I answer all your > > questions in the order that you asked them. > > > > Now here is an interesting play on words. Most times when a person > > says bulb you think of screwing it in, as opposed to clipping as in a > > tube, correct? > > > > I have been entertaining the planted tank concept for a while and most > > recently had yet another failure with it. This was mainly, again > > because of, not enough light and incorrect light. Also you may > > consider for here on out, when we are talking about the tank I would > > be working with its size is a standard 20-gallon long. As I mentioned, > > it does have a hood/cover from AGA. However, the 17-watt tube, even at > > the 12 1/2" depth of this tank is not enough to insure good or any > > plant growth. The last plants I tried were just plain simple water > sprite. > > > > Substrate wise, although my size it good, over-all I'm told that for > these > > type of tanks to be successful another product is better but it's > > proper name eludes me at the moment. Again the light fixture came > > complete with a hood, which has a glass insert on top. The light > > fixture then fits on top of this. It is a 17-watt tube not bulb. > > > > Right now the tank is running as a "Q" tank, stripped with no gravel > > and a PF and sponge filter running. With all the problems with fish > > that I had before, at this point I'm not sure I want to give up the > > security of having one if you know what I mean. > > This is just thinking out loud at this point. > > > > Bill > > > > --- On Sat, 10/17/09, Amber Berglund <arberglund@... > <mailto:arberglund%40gmail.com> > > <mailto:arberglund%40gmail.com>> wrote: > > > > > From: Amber Berglund <arberglund@... > <mailto:arberglund%40gmail.com> > > <mailto:arberglund%40gmail.com>> > > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] OOPS re green water > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > Date: Saturday, October 17, 2009, 5:26 PM > > > I use CFL light bulbs mostly. I think > > > one of my 10 gallon tanks has a > > > smaller CFL bulb too... The only one that has regular > > > fluorescents is my > > > 55 gallon that I got as a kit from walmart. So walmart > > > would carry > > > replacement lighting for it, but it's not HO or VHO lights, > > > just > > > regular, and honestly I'm not even sure what the watts are, > > > but I'm > > > probably around 1 watt per gallon, which is why it has > > > mostly crypts a > > > couple aponogettons, java fern and 1 sword of some type. > > > They're all low > > > light plants. > > > > > > Have you been thinking about switching to a planted tank > > > lately Bill? I > > > think you said at one time that the plants you have are all > > > fake right now. > > > > > > If you want to switch over it's not going to be easy, you > > > will have to > > > do a tank tear down so you have a decent substrate in it > > > instead of just > > > gravel. Every time I've tried just using gravel all my > > > plants started to > > > die off, I gave up and switched all but my 10 gallon tanks > > > to Walstad > > > natural planted tanks. One trick to doing this is picking > > > smaller gravel > > > (like smaller than a frozen pea, but not much smaller than > > > that), I have > > > what is called "pea gravel" from the local hardware store > > > and it's just > > > large enough and heavy enough that the plants have a hard > > > time growing > > > up and through the gravel if it's sprouting a new/baby > > > plant. The gravel > > > seems just a little too large. In the 125 gallon tank I > > > have the normal > > > "rainbow gravel" that you see at most LFS/walmart for use > > > in fish tanks, > > > and the plants grow much faster and spread much faster > > > (such as my vals, > > > darn thing is trying to take over but in the 55 gallon with > > > the larger > > > gravel it doesn't even take root, it's floating and > > > spreading on runners > > > through the tank, but none of the runners are taking root > > > into the > > > gravel/soil, I think they can't get through the gravel or > > > something). > > > > > > Did your light fixture come as a kit, or was it used? Do > > > you have any > > > info on it so we could find out what bulbs you need to > > > replace it with? > > > > > > Amber > > > > > > bill 1433 wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > Why not? Might serve to clear things up for lots > > > > of folks, me included. > > > > > > > > Problems here with size still. I think more > > > investigation on > > > > my part. Even Len's suggestion at taking with tube > > > "with" may not > > > > help. Right size yes, but maybe wrong or not strong > > > enough wattage. > > > > Result? I'm right back where I started from. More > > > reading and > > > > more checking, this thing can't be this hard. I'm told > > > even a > > > > twelve year old can have a planted tank. Ah to be > > > young again! > > > > > > > > Bill > > > > > > ------------------------<snip>---------------------------- > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 43942	From: werepossums	Date: 10/18/2009
Subject: Re: The T-5 Business Len/Amber?

Bill, you don't want to use lamps not listed for your ballast and lamp holders. The ballast does three things: strike the lamp, maintain the proper voltage, and regulate the proper current. (Some instant start ballasts do a fourth thing, namely sense when a lamp has failed to shut down and prevent a potential fire from the ballast repeatedly trying to restart the lamp.) Most (not all) ballasts are designed to power a single type and wattage of lamp - the proper starting (preheating electrodes or voltage pulse), the proper voltage for the lamp, and the proper current. Some (not all) ballasts can sense and operate several lamp wattages. A ballast designed for, say, only a 40W F40/30BX/RS lamp (which operates at 126 volts) may well operate a 39W F39BX/RS lamp (which operates at 107 volts), but not properly as it will feed it 126 volts. This may result in premature lamp or ballast failure, or a failure or even a fire at the lamp holders. Only a ballast designed to operate multiple lamp wattages has the circuitry to measure and compare the current pulled and the voltage to detect the lamp type and therefore drive it correctly. These long twin-tube T5 compact fluorescent lamps are called PL-L or High Lumen Biax lamps. The version with the four pins in a row are American; you can get a general purpose 4100 kelvin, 80+ CRI lamp that is excellent for freshwater plants for much less than the specialty lamps. The 5000 kelvin lamps are good for freshwater plants as well. Up to 55 watts are commonly available, with Phillips also making an 80W model in 3500 and 4100 kelvin rating. The PL-L lamps with the four pins in a square pattern are German in origin and are only available in the USA in specialty lamps which will usually be quite expensive. Drs. Foster & Smith sell a Current brand which are pretty cheap, $12 and up, but the coolest temperature is 6700 kelvin which is better for saltwater than fresh. I can't comment on quality as I use standard non-specialty lighting for my aquariums and in my work. As for lamp color temperatures, I've read a couple of studies which indicated the best color temperature for freshwater plants is 4100 kelvin. The one I recall (I think it was published in FAMA magazine) concluded the best setup for a two-lamp aquarium was one cool white (4100 K) lamp and one of anything that wasn't cool white; that combination grew plants better than any other, including two cool white and including specialty aquarium lamps. I prefer the higher CRI 4100 K lamps with 841 or SPX41 tri-phosphors, usually paired with a 5000 K sunshine lamp or an aquarium or full spectrum lamp, to see the best colors of fish and plants. But if you're using specialty aquarium type lamps you'll be limited in your choices. Hope this helps. Mike > > > bill 1433 wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > I'm sorry, I suppose I should have put all of > > this > > > another way. > > > > Think of it as what goes to what (watt). > > <g> > > > > > > > > What I am trying to say is that I was of the > > opinion > > > that if you > > > > wanted to move up to a T-5 or better tube then > > you had > > > better have a > > > > fixture for it but from reading on, it seems that > > you > > > CAN use a > > > > different tube provided that, first the fixture > > > excepts the pin > > > > alignment of that tube and second that the tube > > or > > > tubes does not > > > > exceed the given wattage of the ballast of the > > fixture > > > itself. Does > > > > any of this makes sense or am I all messed up > > again? > > > Can somebody turn > > > > on a light, please? > > > > > > > > Bill

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 43943	From: bill 1433	Date: 10/18/2009
Subject: Re: OOPS re green water

You got it Amber, It's the cost here plus don't forget, in order to use this type of fixture, I'd have to also buy a new all-glass cover. This would allow plenty of room for the light to work properly. Bill --- On Sat, 10/17/09, Amber Berglund <arberglund@...> wrote: > From: Amber Berglund <arberglund@...> > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] OOPS re green water > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Date: Saturday, October 17, 2009, 10:00 PM > Okay Bill here's an idea for you. Is > your AGA hood one with a removeable > light fixture on it, or is it one that's all included in > one hood (light > is not removeable except perhaps the bulb)? > On DFS they have a light fixture that I'd recommend getting > if you can > remove your current one from your hood, if not you'll have > to buy a > whole new hood :( > I have a 10 gallon from walmart that's all in one, I'd have > to buy a > whole new hood to replace the light fixture on it. my 10 > gallon upstairs > is an older AGA walmart kit and it's light fixture is > separate from the > actual hood, so you could easily replace it with something > the same size > but higher power. > I was looking at this light fixture on DFS.com > http://www.drsfostersmith.com/product/prod_display.cfm?c=3578+3733+9662+13612&pcatid=13612 > > Amber > > bill 1433 wrote: > >  > > > > Bear with me here Amber. I'm going to try answering > using MSWord > > and then cut and paste over to group to make sure I > answer all your > > questions in the order that you asked them. > > > > Now here is an interesting play on words. Most times > when a person > > says bulb you think of screwing it in, as opposed to > clipping as in a > > tube, correct? > > > > I have been entertaining the planted tank concept for > a while and most > > recently had yet another failure with it. This was > mainly, again > > because of, not enough light and incorrect light. Also > you may > > consider for here on out, when we are talking about > the tank I would > > be working with its size is a standard 20-gallon long. > As I mentioned, > > it does have a hood/cover from AGA. However, the > 17-watt tube, even at > > the 12 1/2" depth of this tank is not enough to insure > good or any > > plant growth. The last plants I tried were just plain > simple water sprite. > > > > Substrate wise, although my size it good, over-all I'm > told that for these > > type of tanks to be successful another product is > better but it's > > proper name eludes me at the moment. Again the light > fixture came > > complete with a hood, which has a glass insert on top. > The light > > fixture then fits on top of this. It is a 17-watt tube > not bulb. > > > > Right now the tank is running as a "Q" tank, stripped > with no gravel > > and a PF and sponge filter running. With all the > problems with fish > > that I had before, at this point I'm not sure I want > to give up the > > security of having one if you know what I mean. > > This is just thinking out loud at this point. > > > > Bill > > > > --- On Sat, 10/17/09, Amber Berglund <arberglund@... > > > <mailto:arberglund%40gmail.com>> wrote: > > > > > From: Amber Berglund <arberglund@... > > > <mailto:arberglund%40gmail.com>> > > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] OOPS re green water > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > Date: Saturday, October 17, 2009, 5:26 PM > > > I use CFL light bulbs mostly. I think > > > one of my 10 gallon tanks has a > > > smaller CFL bulb too... The only one that has > regular > > > fluorescents is my > > > 55 gallon that I got as a kit from walmart. So > walmart > > > would carry > > > replacement lighting for it, but it's not HO or > VHO lights, > > > just > > > regular, and honestly I'm not even sure what the > watts are, > > > but I'm > > > probably around 1 watt per gallon, which is why > it has > > > mostly crypts a > > > couple aponogettons, java fern and 1 sword of > some type. > > > They're all low > > > light plants. > > > > > > Have you been thinking about switching to a > planted tank > > > lately Bill? I > > > think you said at one time that the plants you > have are all > > > fake right now. > > > > > > If you want to switch over it's not going to be > easy, you > > > will have to > > > do a tank tear down so you have a decent > substrate in it > > > instead of just > > > gravel. Every time I've tried just using gravel > all my > > > plants started to > > > die off, I gave up and switched all but my 10 > gallon tanks > > > to Walstad > > > natural planted tanks. One trick to doing this is > picking > > > smaller gravel > > > (like smaller than a frozen pea, but not much > smaller than > > > that), I have > > > what is called "pea gravel" from the local > hardware store > > > and it's just > > > large enough and heavy enough that the plants > have a hard > > > time growing > > > up and through the gravel if it's sprouting a > new/baby > > > plant. The gravel > > > seems just a little too large. In the 125 gallon > tank I > > > have the normal > > > "rainbow gravel" that you see at most LFS/walmart > for use > > > in fish tanks, > > > and the plants grow much faster and spread much > faster > > > (such as my vals, > > > darn thing is trying to take over but in the 55 > gallon with > > > the larger > > > gravel it doesn't even take root, it's floating > and > > > spreading on runners > > > through the tank, but none of the runners are > taking root > > > into the > > > gravel/soil, I think they can't get through the > gravel or > > > something). > > > > > > Did your light fixture come as a kit, or was it > used? Do > > > you have any > > > info on it so we could find out what bulbs you > need to > > > replace it with? > > > > > > Amber > > > > > > bill 1433 wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > Why not? Might serve to clear things up for > lots > > > > of folks, me included. > > > > > > > > Problems here with size still. I think more > > > investigation on > > > > my part. Even Len's suggestion at taking > with tube > > > "with" may not > > > > help. Right size yes, but maybe wrong or not > strong > > > enough wattage. > > > > Result? I'm right back where I started from. > More > > > reading and > > > > more checking, this thing can't be this > hard. I'm told > > > even a > > > > twelve year old can have a planted tank. Ah > to be > > > young again! > > > > > > > > Bill > > > > > > > > --- On Sat, 10/17/09, Amber Berglund <arberglund@... > > > <mailto:arberglund%40gmail.com> > > > > > > > <mailto:arberglund%40gmail.com>> > wrote: > > > > > > > > > From: Amber Berglund <arberglund@... > > > <mailto:arberglund%40gmail.com> > > > > > > > <mailto:arberglund%40gmail.com>> > > > > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] OOPS re > green water > > > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > Date: Saturday, October 17, 2009, 3:13 > PM > > > > > Picture of my light fixture? > > > > > > > > > > Amber > > > > > > > > > > bill 1433 wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Hi Amber, > > > > > > > > > > > > Just wanted to ask, "Do you have > any of > > > these lights > > > > > posted in our > > > > > > photo section? Would you? > > > > > > > > > > > > Bill > > > > > > > > > > > > --- On Sat, 10/17/09, Amber > Berglund <arberglund@... > > > <mailto:arberglund%40gmail.com> > > > > > > > <mailto:arberglund%40gmail.com> > > > > > > > > > > > > <mailto:arberglund%40gmail.com>> > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > From: Amber Berglund <arberglund@... > > > <mailto:arberglund%40gmail.com> > > > > > > > <mailto:arberglund%40gmail.com> > > > > > > > > > > > > <mailto:arberglund%40gmail.com>> > > > > > > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] > OOPS re > > > green water > > > > > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > Date: Saturday, October 17, > 2009, 2:07 > > > PM > > > > > > > Normally they carry longer > ones, I > > > > > > > tried ordering that type of > light > > > > > > > from DFS.com but it kept > arriving > > > broken no > > > > > matter how they > > > > > > > shipped it > > > > > > > (granted it had no protection > around > > > the bulbs so > > > > > they were > > > > > > > just banging > > > > > > > around in the fixture until > it got > > > here, and of > > > > > course they > > > > > > > arrived > > > > > > > broken). After the 2nd time > arriving > > > broken I > > > > > said > > > > > > > nevermind, sent it > > > > > > > back and waited for my refund > (which > > > took about a > > > > > month > > > > > > > *sigh*), then I > > > > > > > got a much better light from > > > marinedepot.com and > > > > > it arrived > > > > > > > in perfect > > > > > > > condition and I LOVE the > light better > > > than the > > > > > one I > > > > > > > pointed out for > > > > > > > sale, but the one on sale is > a decent > > > light too, > > > > > just a > > > > > > > step down from > > > > > > > the one I ended up getting > (which > > > includes it's > > > > > own timer, > > > > > > > and legs to > > > > > > > prop the light fixture up, > whereas the > > > other one > > > > > just sets > > > > > > > on top of > > > > > > > your aquarium lid). > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Amber > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Donna Ransome wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Thatﾃ｢竄ｬ邃｢s the > > > fixture I have too on all > > > > > tanks, but my > > > > > > > fixtures are longer. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > _____ > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On > > > > > > > > Behalf Of Amber > Berglund > > > > > > > > Sent: Friday, October > 16, 2009 > > > 9:50 PM > > > > > > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > > Subject: Re: > [AquaticLife] OOPS re > > > green > > > > > water > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > If you ever want to > increase your > > > lighting > > > > > even more > > > > > > > with CFL bulbs you > > > > > > > > can find better bulbs > with a > > > better light > > > > > spectrum. I > > > > > > > actually have the > > > > > > > > same bulbs in my light > fixture, I > > > use the > > > > > straight pin > > > > > > > on the fixture on > > > > > > > > my 55 gallon and the 125 > gallon > > > has square > > > > > pin lights. > > > > > > > I've found that > > > > > > > > there's a better > selection for > > > straight pin > > > > > bulbs on > > > > > > > marinedepot.com > > > > > > > > than square pin (and the > prices > > > are usually > > > > > better). > > > > > > > > Oh and while I'm talking > about > > > > > marinedepot.com they > > > > > > > are running a sale > > > > > > > > on a light fixture that > has CFL > > > bulbs and > > > > > LED night > > > > > > > lighting all in one. > > > > > > > > They only go from 24-36 > inches > > > though, but > > > > > they are > > > > > > > all on sale. > > > > > > > > http://www.marinede > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > <http://www.marinedepot.com/24_inch_2x65_Watt_Current_USA_PowerCompact_Dual_ > > > <http://www.marinedepot.com/24_inch_2x65_Watt_Current_USA_PowerCompact_Dual_> > > > > > > > > > <http://www.marinedepot.com/24_inch_2x65_Watt_Current_USA_PowerCompact_Dual_ > > > <http://www.marinedepot.com/24_inch_2x65_Watt_Current_USA_PowerCompact_Dual_>> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > <http://www.marinedepot.com/24_inch_2x65_Watt_Current_USA_PowerCompact_Dual_ > > > <http://www.marinedepot.com/24_inch_2x65_Watt_Current_USA_PowerCompact_Dual_> > > > > > > > > > <http://www.marinedepot.com/24_inch_2x65_Watt_Current_USA_PowerCompact_Dual_ > > > <http://www.marinedepot.com/24_inch_2x65_Watt_Current_USA_PowerCompact_Dual_>>> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > <http://www.marinedepot.com/24_inch_2x65_Watt_Current_USA_PowerCompact_Dual_ > > > <http://www.marinedepot.com/24_inch_2x65_Watt_Current_USA_PowerCompact_Dual_> > > > > > > > > > <http://www.marinedepot.com/24_inch_2x65_Watt_Current_USA_PowerCompact_Dual_ > > > <http://www.marinedepot.com/24_inch_2x65_Watt_Current_USA_PowerCompact_Dual_>> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > <http://www.marinedepot.com/24_inch_2x65_Watt_Current_USA_PowerCompact_Dual_ > > > <http://www.marinedepot.com/24_inch_2x65_Watt_Current_USA_PowerCompact_Dual_> > > > > > > > > > <http://www.marinedepot.com/24_inch_2x65_Watt_Current_USA_PowerCompact_Dual_ > > > <http://www.marinedepot.com/24_inch_2x65_Watt_Current_USA_PowerCompact_Dual_>>>> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Satellite_Fixture_24_Inch_Power_Compact_Light_Fixtures-Current_USA-CU01011-F > > > > > > > > > ILTFIPCTF-CU01013-vi.html> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > pot.com/24_inch_2x65_Watt_Current_USA_PowerCompact_Dual_Satellite_Fixture_24 > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > _Inch_Power_Compact_Light_Fixtures-Current_USA-CU01011-FILTFIPCTF-CU01013-vi > > > > > > > > .html > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Amber > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Lainey Alexander wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Thanks, Amber - > they are > > > tubes that > > > > > reach the > > > > > > > length of the tank. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Lainey > > > > > > > > > http://www.grasslan <http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com > > <http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com> > > > > <http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com > > <http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com>> > > > > > > <http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com > > <http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com> > > > > <http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com > > <http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com>>> > > > > > > > > <http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com > > <http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com> > > > > <http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com > > <http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com>> > > > > > > <http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com > > <http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com> > > > > <http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com > > <http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com>>>>> > > > > > > > dsgouldians.com > > > > > > > > <http://www.grasslan <http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com > > <http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com> > > > > <http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com > > <http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com>> > > > > > > <http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com > > <http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com> > > > > <http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com > > <http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com>>> > > > > > > > > <http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com > > <http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com> > > > > <http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com > > <http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com>> > > > > > > <http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com > > <http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com> > > > > <http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com > > <http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com>>>>> > > > > > > > dsgouldians.com> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > On Oct 16, 2009, at > 9:35 PM, > > > Amber > > > > > Berglund > > > > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > those are CFL > bulbs, so > > > you have > > > > > more than > > > > > > > enough lighting for your 37 > > > > > > > > > > gallon if you > have 1 > > > bulb on each > > > > > side of > > > > > > > the tank. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Amber > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Lainey > Alexander wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > All I can > see is > > > "coralife 65 > > > > > watt > > > > > > > 6700k" - each bulb has two > tubes, > > > > > > > > > > > and they > don't > > > quite make a U > > > > > turn but > > > > > > > they are connected by a > small > > > > > > > > > > > bridge > that seems > > > to be part > > > > > of the > > > > > > > bulb itself. Does this tell > us > > > > > > > > > > > > anything? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Lainey > > > > > > > > > > > http://www.grasslan > > <http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com <http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com> > > > > <http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com > > <http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com>> > > > > > > <http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com > > <http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com> > > > > <http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com > > <http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com>>> > > > > > > > > <http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com > > <http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com> > > > > <http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com > > <http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com>> > > > > > > <http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com > > <http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com> > > > > <http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com > > <http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com>>>>> > > > > > > > > dsgouldians.com > > > > > > > > > <http://www.grasslan <http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com > > <http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com> > > > > <http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com > > <http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com>> > > > > > > <http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com > > <http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com> > > > > <http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com > > <http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com>>> > > > > > > > > <http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com > > <http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com> > > > > <http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com > > <http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com>> > > > > > > <http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com > > <http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com> > > > > <http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com > > <http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com>>>>> > > > > > > > dsgouldians.com> > > > > > > > > <http:// > > > > > > > > > > > > > www.grasslandsgouldians.com> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > On Oct > 16, 2009, at > > > 2:37 PM, > > > > > Lenny V. > > > > > > > aka GoldLenny wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Long > straight > > > tubes with > > > > > pins on > > > > > > > each end? Many other bulbs > also > > > > > > > > > > > > have > pins > > > > > > > > > > > > but > CFL's only > > > have them > > > > > on one > > > > > > > end and the tube usually > makes > > > > > > > > > > a U- > > > > > > > > > > > > turn > and > > > > > > > > > > > > > comes back to > > > the same > > > > > fitting. > > > > > > > They should have a brand and > item > > > > > > > > > > > > > number on > > > > > > > > > > > > > them... or > > > something > > > > > else... but > > > > > > > they are probably just > standard > > > > > > > > > > > > > fluorescent > > > > > > > > > > > > > tubes. You > > > would have to > > > > > turn the > > > > > > > fixture over and look at the > > > > > > > > > > > > > bulbs... > > > > > > > > > > > > > maybe even > > > removing one > > > > > to look > > > > > > > for the writing on the glass > on > > > > > > > > > > one > > > > > > > > > > > > end > of > > > > > > > > > > > > the > tube. It > > > > > might/should even > > > > > > > have a T-__ code which is a > > > > > > > > > > standard > > > > > > > > > > > > > coding > > > > > > > > > > > > now > for > > > fluorescent > > > > > tubes. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > You > need to > > > know this > > > > > information > > > > > > > as, depending on the > brand/type/ > > > > > > > > > > > > > etc., you > > > > > > > > > > > > > might have to > > > replace > > > > > these bulbs > > > > > > > every six months or so. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Lenny > > > Vasbinder > > > > > > > > > > > > Fish > Blog - http://GoldLenny. > > > > > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>> > > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>>> > > > > > > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>> > > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>>>>> > > > > > > > > blogspot.com > > > > > > > > > <http://GoldLenny. > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>> > > > > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>>> > > > > > > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>> > > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>>>>> > > > > > > > blogspot.com> > > > > > > > > > > > <http://GoldLenny. > > > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>> > > > > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>>> > > > > > > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>> > > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>>>>> > > > > > > > blogspot.com > > > > > > > > <http://GoldLenny. > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>> > > > > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>>> > > > > > > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>> > > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>>>>> > > > > > > > blogspot.com>> > > > > > > > > > > > > > (Links to any > > > articles > > > > > referenced > > > > > > > in above reply are listed on > the > > > > > > > > > > > > > right > > > > > > > > > > > > > side, > > > alphabetically > > > > > under Labels > > > > > > > and also under Archives by > Year, > > > > > > > > > > > > > Month) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -----Original > > > > > Message----- > > > > > > > > > > > > > From: > > > AquaticLife@ > > > > > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > > yahoogroups.com > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > [mailto:AquaticLife@ > > > > > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > > yahoogroups.com > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On > > > > > > > > > > > > > Behalf Of > > > Lainey > > > > > Alexander > > > > > > > > > > > > > Sent: Friday, > > > October > > > > > 16, 2009 > > > > > > > 10:17 AM > > > > > > > > > > > > To: > > > AquaticLife@ > > > > > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > > yahoogroups.com > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife% > > > > > > > > > > > 40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > > > > > > > Subject: Re: > > > > > [AquaticLife] OOPS re > > > > > > > green water > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Lenny - > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > As > far as I > > > know, I have > > > > > regular > > > > > > > standard fluorescents, they > are > > > > > > > > > > > > the > ones > > > > > > > > > > > > with > the pins > > > - 65 > > > > > watts, two > > > > > > > bulbs, 6700k each. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Lainey > > > > > > > > > > > > http://www.grasslan > > > > <http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com > > <http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com> > > <http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com <http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com>> > > > > > > <http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com > > <http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com> > > > > <http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com > > <http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com>>> > > > > > > > > <http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com > > <http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com> > > > > <http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com > > <http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com>> > > > > > > <http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com > > <http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com> > > > > <http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com > > <http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com>>>>> > > > > > > > > dsgouldians.com > > > > > > > > > <http://www.grasslan <http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com > > <http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com> > > > > <http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com > > <http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com>> > > > > > > <http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com > > <http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com> > > > > <http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com > > <http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com>>> > > > > > > > > <http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com > > <http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com> > > > > <http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com > > <http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com>> > > > > > > <http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com > > <http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com> > > > > <http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com > > <http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com>>>>> > > > > > > > dsgouldians.com> > > > > > > > > <http:// > > > > > > > > > > > > > www.grasslandsgouldians.com> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > On > Oct 16, > > > 2009, at 1:16 > > > > > AM, Lenny > > > > > > > V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Lets > > > see... my > > > > > first thoughts > > > > > > > would be... > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > http://images. > > > > > > > > <http://images.veer.com/IMG/PILL/MAI/MAI0002683_P.JPG > > <http://images.veer.com/IMG/PILL/MAI/MAI0002683_P.JPG> > > > > <http://images.veer.com/IMG/PILL/MAI/MAI0002683_P.JPG > > <http://images.veer.com/IMG/PILL/MAI/MAI0002683_P.JPG>> > > > > > > <http://images.veer.com/IMG/PILL/MAI/MAI0002683_P.JPG > > <http://images.veer.com/IMG/PILL/MAI/MAI0002683_P.JPG> > > > > <http://images.veer.com/IMG/PILL/MAI/MAI0002683_P.JPG > > <http://images.veer.com/IMG/PILL/MAI/MAI0002683_P.JPG>>> > > > > > > > > <http://images.veer.com/IMG/PILL/MAI/MAI0002683_P.JPG > > <http://images.veer.com/IMG/PILL/MAI/MAI0002683_P.JPG> > > > > <http://images.veer.com/IMG/PILL/MAI/MAI0002683_P.JPG > > <http://images.veer.com/IMG/PILL/MAI/MAI0002683_P.JPG>> > > > > > > <http://images.veer.com/IMG/PILL/MAI/MAI0002683_P.JPG > > <http://images.veer.com/IMG/PILL/MAI/MAI0002683_P.JPG> > > > > <http://images.veer.com/IMG/PILL/MAI/MAI0002683_P.JPG > > <http://images.veer.com/IMG/PILL/MAI/MAI0002683_P.JPG>>>>> > > > > > > > > > > > veer.com/IMG/PILL/MAI/MAI0002683_P.JPG > > > > > > > > > <http://images. > > > > > > > > <http://images.veer.com/IMG/PILL/MAI/MAI0002683_P.JPG > > <http://images.veer.com/IMG/PILL/MAI/MAI0002683_P.JPG> > > > > <http://images.veer.com/IMG/PILL/MAI/MAI0002683_P.JPG > > <http://images.veer.com/IMG/PILL/MAI/MAI0002683_P.JPG>> > > > > > > <http://images.veer.com/IMG/PILL/MAI/MAI0002683_P.JPG > > <http://images.veer.com/IMG/PILL/MAI/MAI0002683_P.JPG> > > > > <http://images.veer.com/IMG/PILL/MAI/MAI0002683_P.JPG > > <http://images.veer.com/IMG/PILL/MAI/MAI0002683_P.JPG>>> > > > > > > > > <http://images.veer.com/IMG/PILL/MAI/MAI0002683_P.JPG > > <http://images.veer.com/IMG/PILL/MAI/MAI0002683_P.JPG> > > > > <http://images.veer.com/IMG/PILL/MAI/MAI0002683_P.JPG > > <http://images.veer.com/IMG/PILL/MAI/MAI0002683_P.JPG>> > > > > > > <http://images.veer.com/IMG/PILL/MAI/MAI0002683_P.JPG > > <http://images.veer.com/IMG/PILL/MAI/MAI0002683_P.JPG> > > > > <http://images.veer.com/IMG/PILL/MAI/MAI0002683_P.JPG > > <http://images.veer.com/IMG/PILL/MAI/MAI0002683_P.JPG>>>>> > > > > > > > > > > > veer.com/IMG/PILL/MAI/MAI0002683_P.JPG> > > > > > > > > > > > <http://images. > > > > > > > > <http://images.veer.com/IMG/PILL/MAI/MAI0002683_P.JPG > > <http://images.veer.com/IMG/PILL/MAI/MAI0002683_P.JPG> > > > > <http://images.veer.com/IMG/PILL/MAI/MAI0002683_P.JPG > > <http://images.veer.com/IMG/PILL/MAI/MAI0002683_P.JPG>> > > > > > > <http://images.veer.com/IMG/PILL/MAI/MAI0002683_P.JPG > > <http://images.veer.com/IMG/PILL/MAI/MAI0002683_P.JPG> > > > > <http://images.veer.com/IMG/PILL/MAI/MAI0002683_P.JPG > > <http://images.veer.com/IMG/PILL/MAI/MAI0002683_P.JPG>>> > > > > > > > > <http://images.veer.com/IMG/PILL/MAI/MAI0002683_P.JPG > > <http://images.veer.com/IMG/PILL/MAI/MAI0002683_P.JPG> > > > > <http://images.veer.com/IMG/PILL/MAI/MAI0002683_P.JPG > > <http://images.veer.com/IMG/PILL/MAI/MAI0002683_P.JPG>> > > > > > > <http://images.veer.com/IMG/PILL/MAI/MAI0002683_P.JPG > > <http://images.veer.com/IMG/PILL/MAI/MAI0002683_P.JPG> > > > > <http://images.veer.com/IMG/PILL/MAI/MAI0002683_P.JPG > > <http://images.veer.com/IMG/PILL/MAI/MAI0002683_P.JPG>>>>> > > > > > > > > > > > veer.com/IMG/PILL/MAI/MAI0002683_P.JPG > > > > > > > > > <http://images. > > > > > > > > <http://images.veer.com/IMG/PILL/MAI/MAI0002683_P.JPG > > <http://images.veer.com/IMG/PILL/MAI/MAI0002683_P.JPG> > > > > <http://images.veer.com/IMG/PILL/MAI/MAI0002683_P.JPG > > <http://images.veer.com/IMG/PILL/MAI/MAI0002683_P.JPG>> > > > > > > <http://images.veer.com/IMG/PILL/MAI/MAI0002683_P.JPG > > <http://images.veer.com/IMG/PILL/MAI/MAI0002683_P.JPG> > > > > <http://images.veer.com/IMG/PILL/MAI/MAI0002683_P.JPG > > <http://images.veer.com/IMG/PILL/MAI/MAI0002683_P.JPG>>> > > > > > > > > <http://images.veer.com/IMG/PILL/MAI/MAI0002683_P.JPG > > <http://images.veer.com/IMG/PILL/MAI/MAI0002683_P.JPG> > > > > <http://images.veer.com/IMG/PILL/MAI/MAI0002683_P.JPG > > <http://images.veer.com/IMG/PILL/MAI/MAI0002683_P.JPG>> > > > > > > <http://images.veer.com/IMG/PILL/MAI/MAI0002683_P.JPG > > <http://images.veer.com/IMG/PILL/MAI/MAI0002683_P.JPG> > > > > <http://images.veer.com/IMG/PILL/MAI/MAI0002683_P.JPG > > <http://images.veer.com/IMG/PILL/MAI/MAI0002683_P.JPG>>>>> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > veer.com/IMG/PILL/MAI/MAI0002683_P.JPG>> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > (maybe > > > without the > > > > > Parrot as > > > > > > > an eye witness... lol... > ;-)) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > It's good > > > to hear > > > > > you have a > > > > > > > 30" x 12" footprint but you > need to > > > > > > > > > > > > > quit > > > > > > > > > > > > > > using the > > > "depth" > > > > > term for > > > > > > > the front to back > measurement, > > > > > > > > > > although > > > > > > > > > > > > > > that is a > > > common > > > > > term to use > > > > > > > for measuring other physical > > > > > > > > > > items, for > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > aquariums, because > > > > > of the > > > > > > > water, "depth" can easily be > > > > > > > > > > > > > misconstrued > > > to > > > > > > > > > > > > > > be the > > > depth of the > > > > > water. > > > > > > > This is why the standard for > aquarium > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > measurement is L x > > > > > W x H > > > > > > > (Length by Width by Height). > I know > > > the > > > > > > > > > > > > > > "width" > > > part can be > > > > > confusing > > > > > > > also since that would be the > long > > > > > > > > > > > > > sides > > > > > > > > > > > > > > of most > > > aquarium > > > > > where we > > > > > > > commonly use the long sides > as the > > > > > > > > > > length > > > > > > > > > > > > > > and the > > > front to > > > > > back > > > > > > > measurement as the width. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Don't ask > > > me who > > > > > invented > > > > > > > this standard. LOL > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > At least > > > with the > > > > > 30" x 12" > > > > > > > footprint and only 23" tall > and your > > > > > > > > > > > > > tank > > > > > > > > > > > > > > is still > > > based on > > > > > the same > > > > > > > footprint as a 20G but at > least > > > > > > > > > > it's a > > > > > > > > > > > > 20G > > > > > > > > > > > > > > LONG > > > footprint > > > > > instead of a > > > > > > > regular 20G footprint. It's > also not > > > > > > > > > > > > > > nearly as > > > tall as > > > > > what you > > > > > > > originally said was a 30" > tall > > > > > > > > > > tank so > > > > > > > > > > > > > this > > > > > > > > > > > > > > makes > > > your lighting > > > > > more > > > > > > > practical... BUT... you still > DO NOT > > > > > > > > > > > > need > 5" > > > > > > > > > > > > > > to 7" of > > > gravel. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Still > > > > > > > > > > > > > > cut this > > > back to 2" > > > > > to 3". > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I do not > > > recall if > > > > > you ever > > > > > > > listed details on your > lighting > > > > > > > > > > other > > > > > > > > > > > > > than > > > > > > > > > > > > > > saying > > > you had two > > > > > 65W > > > > > > > fluorescent bulbs. Are they > standard > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > fluorescent > > > > > bulbs... long > > > > > > > single tubes with two pins on > each > > > > > > > > > > end? > > > > > > > > > > > > > Look > > > > > > > > > > > > > > on the > > > bulbs for > > > > > any item > > > > > > > numbers, brand names, etc. > and let us > > > > > > > > > > > > > know. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > From what > > > I can see > > > > > on the > > > > > > > net, it looks like you could > > > > > > > > > > either have > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 65W CFL's > > > instead > > > > > of standard > > > > > > > fluorescent bulbs but they do > also > > > > > > > > > > > > > have > > > > > > > > > > > > > > a T-10 > > > 65W > > > > > Fluorescent tube. > > > > > > > While they are both called > 65W > > > > > > > > > > (watt), > > > > > > > > > > > > > > the CFL's > > > would put > > > > > out 2-3 > > > > > > > times more light (lumens) > than > > > > > > > > > > standard > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > fluorescent tubes. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Lenny > > > Vasbinder > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Fish Blog > > > - http://GoldLenny. > > > > > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>> > > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>>> > > > > > > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>> > > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>>>>> > > > > > > > > blogspot.com > > > > > > > > > <http://GoldLenny. > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>> > > > > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>>> > > > > > > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>> > > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>>>>> > > > > > > > blogspot.com> > > > > > > > > > > > <http://GoldLenny. > > > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>> > > > > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>>> > > > > > > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>> > > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>>>>> > > > > > > > blogspot.com > > > > > > > > <http://GoldLenny. > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>> > > > > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>>> > > > > > > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>> > > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>>>>> > > > > > > > blogspot.com>> > > > > > > > > > (Links to any > articles > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > referenced in above > > > > > reply are > > > > > > > listed on the right side, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > alphabetically > > > > > > > > > > > > > > under > > > Labels and > > > > > also under > > > > > > > Archives by Year, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Month) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -----Original > > > > > Message----- > > > > > > > > > > > > > > From: > > > AquaticLife@ > > > > > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > > yahoogroups.com > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > [mailto:AquaticLife@ > > > > > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > > yahoogroups.com > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On > > > > > Behalf Of > > > > > > > Lainey > > > > > > > > > > Alexander > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Sent: > > > Thursday, > > > > > October 15, > > > > > > > 2009 8:38 PM > > > > > > > > > > > > > > To: > > > AquaticLife@ > > > > > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > > yahoogroups.com > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife% > > > > > > > > > > > 40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Subject: > > > > > [AquaticLife] OOPS > > > > > > > re green water > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I just > > > realized > > > > > that I > > > > > > > completely goofed on these > > > measurements > > > > > > > > > > > > > > (below), > > > which is > > > > > why > > > > > > > everyone has been so adamant > about my > > > > > > > > > > crazy > > > > > > > > > > > > > tank > > > > > > > > > > > > > > shape! > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > The > > > height is 23, > > > > > the WIDTH > > > > > > > is 30 and the depth is 12. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I'm so > > > sorry to > > > > > make everyone > > > > > > > talk about something that > was > > > > > > > > > > > > > incorrect > > > > > > > > > > > > > > this > > > whole time. > > > > > But now, can > > > > > > > you all let me know if this > is > > > > > > > > > > a much > > > > > > > > > > > > > > more > > > reasonable > > > > > depth please? > > > > > > > Does this change my bioload > > > > > > > > > > issues at > > > > > > > > > > > > > > all? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Does it > > > > > > > > > > > > > > change > > > the > > > > > appropriateness of > > > > > > > my lights? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > In five > > > weeks > > > > > several of my > > > > > > > plants are near the top of > the > > > > > > > > > > water, > > > > > > > > > > > > so > I > > > > > > > > > > > > > > think > > > they must be > > > > > fairly > > > > > > > happy with the light. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > My > > > apologies for > > > > > being > > > > > > > careless. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Lainey > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Tank > > > > > measurements are 30 > > > > > > > high, 23 wide and 12 deep. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Fluorescent > > > > > lights, 2 > > > > > > > @65 watts and 6700k - on 12 > and off 12 > > > > > > > > > > > > > > which is > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > what > > > I have > > > > > been told my > > > > > > > plants require... > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I > > > used > > > > > Activ-Flora > > > > > > > gravel, and this contains > non-nitrogen > > > > > > > > > > > > > fertilizer > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > plus > > > > > "instant-cycling" > > > > > > > bacteria > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Not > > > dosing > > > > > with any > > > > > > > chemicals or ferts > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > *** > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > [Non-text > portions > > > of this > > > > > message have > > > > > > > been removed] > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions > of this > > > message have > > > > > been > > > > > > > removed] > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of > this message > > > have been > > > > > removed] > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ------------------------------------ > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Please, DELETE this line and > EVERYTHING > > > below it > > > > > when > > > > > > > replying, Thank You. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ﾃã�¤ï½·ï¾ƒã�¤ï½´ï¾ƒã�¤ï½¯`ﾃã�¤ï½·.ﾃã�¤ï½¸ï¾ƒã�¤ï½¸.><((((ﾃã�¤ï½º>.ﾃã�¤ï½·ï¾ƒã�¤ï½´ï¾ƒã�¤ï½¯`ﾃã�¤ï½·.ﾃã�¤ï½¸ï¾ƒã�¤ï½¸.ﾃ > > > ã�¤ï½·ï¾ƒã�¤ï½´ï¾ƒã�¤ï½¯` > ﾃã�¤ï½·.ﾃã�¤ï½¸><((((ﾃã�¤ï½º> > > > > > > > > > > > ﾃã�¤ï½¸.ﾃã�¤ï½·ï¾ƒã�¤ï½´ï¾ƒã�¤ï½¯`ﾃã�¤ï½·.ﾃã�¤ï½¸. > > > , > > > > > > > > > .ﾃã�¤ï½·ï¾ƒã�¤ï½´ï¾ƒã�¤ï½¯`ﾃã�¤ï½·..><((((ﾃã�¤ï½º> > > > > > > > PLEASE, when you REPLY to a > post, > > > DELETE all TEXT > > > > > that is > > > > > > > NOT important to the reply > & if > > > CHANGING the > > > > > TOPIC of > > > > > > > the original message MODIFY > the SUBJECT > > > LINE > > > > > -> i.e. "new > > > > > > > subject (was re: old > subject)" <- > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > <ﾃã�¤ï½º((((><.ﾃã�¤ï½·ï¾ƒã�¤ï½´ï¾ƒã�¤ï½¯`ﾃã�¤ï½·.ﾃã�¤ï½¸ï¾ƒã�¤ï½¸.ﾃã�¤ï½·ï¾ƒã�¤ï½´ï¾ƒã�¤ï½¯`ﾃã�¤ï½·.ﾃã�¤ï½¸<ﾃã�¤ï½º > > > > ((((><ﾃã�¤ï½¸.ﾃã�¤ï½·ï¾ƒã�¤ï½´ï¾ƒã�¤ï½¯`ﾃã�¤ï½·.ﾃã�¤ï½¸. > > > > > > > , > > > > > > > > > .ﾃã�¤ï½·ï¾ƒã�¤ï½´ï¾ƒã�¤ï½¯`ﾃã�¤ï½·..<ﾃã�¤ï½º((((><ﾃã�¤ï½·ï¾ƒã�¤ï½´ï¾ƒã�¤ï½¯`ﾃã�¤ï½·.ﾃã�¤ï½¸ï¾ƒã�¤ï½¸. > > > > > > > We Thank You in Advance for > Your HELP > > > in this > > > > > matter. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > If you do not want all of the > groups > > > emails, > > > > > instead of > > > > > > > unsubscribing, you can change > your > > > delivery > > > > > option by > > > > > 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Group: AquaticLife	Message: 43944	From: bill 1433	Date: 10/18/2009
Subject: Re: OOPS re green water

\\Steve// Thanks for all this info. I bookmarked and saved message so I don't have to ask twice! In addition, I appreciated the "T" explanation. Bill---where confusion is often a state of mind --- On Sat, 10/17/09, Steve Szabo <steve@...> wrote: > From: Steve Szabo <steve@...> > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] OOPS re green water > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Date: Saturday, October 17, 2009, 10:39 PM > Amber, > > I was, as Bill often is, confused when I saw you mentioning > T4 as a designation for a fluorescent bulb. I went looking > around to see what that was. On Wikipedia, I found there was > indeed a T4, and also a T2, which I believe I have seen > before, but never gave it a thought. For those who are not > going to the links I will provide below, The T stands for a > Tube type bulb, and the number indicates the diameter of the > bulb in 1/8 inches. Thus, a T4 is a tube type bulb that is > 1/2 inch in diameter.  There are also T12 (1 1/2" in > diameter), T8 (1"), and T5 (5/8") bulbs. The Wikipedia has a > whole slew of information at http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fluorescent_lamp#Tube_designations > http://tinyurl.com/ykcht72 > Be sure to follow the other links on the page for more info > about bases of fluorescent bulbs. > > Another site I found that had a lot of info on lighting was > this one: > http://www.lightsearch.com/resources/lightguides/index.html > http://tinyurl.com/ygn65w5 > > \\Steve// > > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] > On Behalf Of Amber Berglund > Sent: Saturday, October 17, 2009 9:28 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] OOPS re green water > > I see then, and as far as I'm concerned any light bulb is a > bulb even if > it plugs in and not screws in ;) LOL. > Well I can see the problem you would have with that light, > and since I'm > not sure if it's a HO or VHO t-4, or even if you can find > that type at > one of your local stores, I would honestly suggest > upgrading your hood. > You can use the fixture itself as a shell and get a > retrofit CFL kit > from somewhere like marinedepot.com (I can't have the > retrofit kits > shipped to alaska, I think they are oversized or something > weird, either > way they are not shippable to me, so I had to buy a whole > new fixture). > Just make sure to get a CFL kit that's the same length or > smaller than > the light fixture it will go inside ;) > Also after looking at marinedepot, they have another sale > on a light > fixture. If I were you I'd keep an eye on their site and > see if one of > the light fixtures you want comes up for sale. This one is > a coralife HO > (so it would be fluorescents) but it has 2 strips of > lights, you will > have to replace the bulbs though as they are not the proper > spectrum for > plants, it comes with a 10000 kelvin daylight and an > actinic, you would > want to replace the actinic at least with a 6500 or 6700 > kelvin bulb > instead for proper plant growth. > http://www.marinedepot.com/ps_viewItem.aspx?idProduct=ES08600&utm_source=mdhfl091009b4&utm_medium=mdfl&utm_term=mdhflAqualight091009b4rt1&utm_content=mdhflb4rt1&utm_campaign=mdhfl > It comes in 24 inches up to 48 inches, so it should have a > size that > will fit your tank. No night lights on this fixture, or a > built in > timer, but you can get around that with a simple light > timer. I honestly > prefer the CFL bulbs, but the HO T-5's or better are > cheaper to replace > than CFL's, but you will have to replace them every few > months (6 months > max or so I have heard) because they start to get dimmer > over age, > whereas CFL's don't have this issue, they just burn out > eventually. So > it's all a matter of how much money you want to save in the > end, you'd > have to buy more fluorescent bulbs more often, but the > fixture's are > cheaper than the CFL fixtures. > You probably bought one of the planted substrates I assume? > the gravel > that comes in a brownish-red or black and has added > nutrients for plants? > > Amber > > bill 1433 wrote: > >  > > > > Bear with me here Amber. I'm going to try answering > using MSWord > > and then cut and paste over to group to make sure I > answer all your > > questions in the order that you asked them. > > > > Now here is an interesting play on words. Most times > when a person > > says bulb you think of screwing it in, as opposed to > clipping as in a > > tube, correct? > > > > I have been entertaining the planted tank concept for > a while and most > > recently had yet another failure with it. This was > mainly, again > > because of, not enough light and incorrect light. Also > you may > > consider for here on out, when we are talking about > the tank I would > > be working with its size is a standard 20-gallon long. > As I mentioned, > > it does have a hood/cover from AGA. However, the > 17-watt tube, even at > > the 12 1/2" depth of this tank is not enough to insure > good or any > > plant growth. The last plants I tried were just plain > simple water sprite. > > > > Substrate wise, although my size it good, over-all I'm > told that for these > > type of tanks to be successful another product is > better but it's > > proper name eludes me at the moment. Again the light > fixture came > > complete with a hood, which has a glass insert on top. > The light > > fixture then fits on top of this. It is a 17-watt tube > not bulb. > > > > Right now the tank is running as a "Q" tank, stripped > with no gravel > > and a PF and sponge filter running. With all the > problems with fish > > that I had before, at this point I'm not sure I want > to give up the > > security of having one if you know what I mean. > > This is just thinking out loud at this point. > > > > Bill > > > > --- On Sat, 10/17/09, Amber Berglund <arberglund@... > > > <mailto:arberglund%40gmail.com>> wrote: > > > > > From: Amber Berglund <arberglund@... > > > <mailto:arberglund%40gmail.com>> > > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] OOPS re green water > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > Date: Saturday, October 17, 2009, 5:26 PM > > > I use CFL light bulbs mostly. I think > > > one of my 10 gallon tanks has a > > > smaller CFL bulb too... The only one that has > regular > > > fluorescents is my > > > 55 gallon that I got as a kit from walmart. So > walmart > > > would carry > > > replacement lighting for it, but it's not HO or > VHO lights, > > > just > > > regular, and honestly I'm not even sure what the > watts are, > > > but I'm > > > probably around 1 watt per gallon, which is why > it has > > > mostly crypts a > > > couple aponogettons, java fern and 1 sword of > some type. > > > They're all low > > > light plants. > > > > > > Have you been thinking about switching to a > planted tank > > > lately Bill? I > > > think you said at one time that the plants you > have are all > > > fake right now. > > > > > > If you want to switch over it's not going to be > easy, you > > > will have to > > > do a tank tear down so you have a decent > substrate in it > > > instead of just > > > gravel. Every time I've tried just using gravel > all my > > > plants started to > > > die off, I gave up and switched all but my 10 > gallon tanks > > > to Walstad > > > natural planted tanks. One trick to doing this is > picking > > > smaller gravel > > > (like smaller than a frozen pea, but not much > smaller than > > > that), I have > > > what is called "pea gravel" from the local > hardware store > > > and it's just > > > large enough and heavy enough that the plants > have a hard > > > time growing > > > up and through the gravel if it's sprouting a > new/baby > > > plant. The gravel > > > seems just a little too large. In the 125 gallon > tank I > > > have the normal > > > "rainbow gravel" that you see at most LFS/walmart > for use > > > in fish tanks, > > > and the plants grow much faster and spread much > faster > > > (such as my vals, > > > darn thing is trying to take over but in the 55 > gallon with > > > the larger > > > gravel it doesn't even take root, it's floating > and > > > spreading on runners > > > through the tank, but none of the runners are > taking root > > > into the > > > gravel/soil, I think they can't get through the > gravel or > > > something). > > > > > > Did your light fixture come as a kit, or was it > used? Do > > > you have any > > > info on it so we could find out what bulbs you > need to > > > replace it with? > > > > > > Amber > > > > > > bill 1433 wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > Why not? Might serve to clear things up for > lots > > > > of folks, me included. > > > > > > > > Problems here with size still. I think more > > > investigation on > > > > my part. Even Len's suggestion at taking > with tube > > > "with" may not > > > > help. Right size yes, but maybe wrong or not > strong > > > enough wattage. > > > > Result? I'm right back where I started from. > More > > > reading and > > > > more checking, this thing can't be this > hard. I'm told > > > even a > > > > twelve year old can have a planted tank. Ah > to be > > > young again! > > > > > > > > Bill > > > > > > ------------------------<snip>---------------------------- > > > > ------------------------------------ > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when > replying, Thank You. > ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> > ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> > PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is > NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of > the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new > subject (was re: old subject)" <- > <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. > , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. > > If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of > unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by > clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the home page.  > > Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com > to receive the digest, which includes up to 25 posts at a > time in a single email > > Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com > for the No E-Mail option where you will still be able to > read messages on the group and post replies. > > Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com > to receive individual e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links > > >     mailto:AquaticLife-fullfeatured@yahoogroups.com > > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 43945	From: bill 1433	Date: 10/18/2009
Subject: Re: The T-5 Business Len/Amber?

Thanks Mike! That's one more for the notebook! Bill --- On Sun, 10/18/09, werepossums <mdwfield@...> wrote: > From: werepossums <mdwfield@...> > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: The T-5 Business Len/Amber? > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Date: Sunday, October 18, 2009, 2:34 AM > Bill, you don't want to use lamps not > listed for your ballast and lamp holders.  The ballast > does three things: strike the lamp, maintain the proper > voltage, and regulate the proper current.  (Some > instant start ballasts do a fourth thing, namely sense when > a lamp has failed to shut down and prevent a potential fire > from the ballast repeatedly trying to restart the > lamp.)  Most (not all) ballasts are designed to power a > single type and wattage of lamp - the proper starting > (preheating electrodes or voltage pulse), the proper voltage > for the lamp, and the proper current.  Some (not all) > ballasts can sense and operate several lamp wattages.  > A ballast designed for, say, only a 40W F40/30BX/RS lamp > (which operates at 126 volts) may well operate a 39W > F39BX/RS lamp (which operates at 107 volts), but not > properly as it will feed it 126 volts.  This may result > in premature lamp or ballast failure, or a failure or even a > fire at the lamp holders.  Only a ballast designed to > operate multiple lamp wattages has the circuitry to measure > and compare the current pulled and the voltage to detect the > lamp type and therefore drive it correctly. > > These long twin-tube T5 compact fluorescent lamps are > called PL-L or High Lumen Biax lamps.  The version with > the four pins in a row are American; you can get a general > purpose 4100 kelvin, 80+ CRI lamp that is excellent for > freshwater plants for much less than the specialty > lamps.  The 5000 kelvin lamps are good for freshwater > plants as well.  Up to 55 watts are commonly available, > with Phillips also making an 80W model in 3500 and 4100 > kelvin rating.  > > The PL-L lamps with the four pins in a square pattern are > German in origin and are only available in the USA in > specialty lamps which will usually be quite expensive.  > Drs. Foster & Smith sell a Current brand which are > pretty cheap, $12 and up, but the coolest temperature is > 6700 kelvin which is better for saltwater than fresh.  > I can't comment on quality as I use standard non-specialty > lighting for my aquariums and in my work. > > As for lamp color temperatures, I've read a couple of > studies which indicated the best color temperature for > freshwater plants is 4100 kelvin.  The one I recall (I > think it was published in FAMA magazine) concluded the best > setup for a two-lamp aquarium was one cool white (4100 K) > lamp and one of anything that wasn't cool white; that > combination grew plants better than any other, including two > cool white and including specialty aquarium lamps.  I > prefer the higher CRI 4100 K lamps with 841 or SPX41 > tri-phosphors, usually paired with a 5000 K sunshine lamp or > an aquarium or full spectrum lamp, to see the best colors of > fish and plants.  But if you're using specialty > aquarium type lamps you'll be limited in your choices. > > Hope this helps. > Mike > > > > > bill 1433 wrote: > > > > >  > > > > > > > > > > I'm sorry, I suppose I should have put > all of > > > this > > > > another way. > > > > > Think of it as what goes to what > (watt). > > > <g> > > > > > > > > > > What I am trying to say is that I was > of the > > > opinion > > > > that if you > > > > > wanted to move up to a T-5 or better > tube then > > > you had > > > > better have a > > > > > fixture for it but from reading on, it > seems that > > > you > > > > CAN use a > > > > > different tube provided that, first the > fixture > > > > excepts the pin > > > > > alignment of that tube and second that > the tube > > > or > > > > tubes does not > > > > > exceed the given wattage of the ballast > of the > > > fixture > > > > itself. Does > > > > > any of this makes sense or am I all > messed up > > > again? > > > > Can somebody turn > > > > > on a light, please? > > > > > > > > > > Bill > > > > > ------------------------------------ > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when > replying, Thank You. > ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> > ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> > PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is > NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of > the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new > subject (was re: old subject)" <- > <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. > , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. > > If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of > unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by > clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the home page.  > > Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com > to receive the digest, which includes up to 25 posts at a > time in a single email > > Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com > for the No E-Mail option where you will still be able to > read messages on the group and post replies. > > Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com > to receive individual e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links > > >     mailto:AquaticLife-fullfeatured@yahoogroups.com > > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 43946	From: Lainey Alexander	Date: 10/18/2009
Subject: Eheim backdrafting

Hi Everyone - After cleaning my Eheim canister filter today I went to turn it back on and it blew debris all over my tank. Why would this be happening? Thanks, Lainey http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 43947	From: Donna Ransome	Date: 10/18/2009
Subject: Re: Eheim backdrafting

Did you take the hoses to the sink and flush them out as well? I find a fair amount of debris lodges just inside the connectors. I usually don't worry about it if it's not too much (just a second or two). If it's more than that to me it's a sign I need to do the hoses. If you've just cleaned the filter, the only place more debris could be lurking is the hoses and pipes, right? _____ From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Lainey Alexander Sent: Sunday, October 18, 2009 8:17 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Eheim backdrafting Hi Everyone - After cleaning my Eheim canister filter today I went to turn it back on and it blew debris all over my tank. Why would this be happening? Thanks, Lainey http://www.grasslan <http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com> dsgouldians.com [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 43948	From: Lainey Alexander	Date: 10/18/2009
Subject: Re: Eheim backdrafting

You're right, I didn't check the hoses. Duh. Lainey http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com On Oct 18, 2009, at 8:58 PM, Donna Ransome wrote: > Did you take the hoses to the sink and flush them out as well? I > find a > fair amount of debris lodges just inside the connectors. > > I usually don't worry about it if it's not too much (just a second > or two). > If it's more than that to me it's a sign I need to do the hoses. If > you've > just cleaned the filter, the only place more debris could be > lurking is the > hoses and pipes, right? > > _____ > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On > Behalf Of Lainey Alexander > Sent: Sunday, October 18, 2009 8:17 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Subject: [AquaticLife] Eheim backdrafting > > Hi Everyone - > > After cleaning my Eheim canister filter today I went to turn it back > on and it blew debris all over my tank. Why would this be happening? > > Thanks, > > Lainey > http://www.grasslan <http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com> > dsgouldians.com > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 43949	From: Wendie	Date: 10/18/2009
Subject: Re: Eheim backdrafting

Did you clean out the hoses between the tank? Wendie ----- Original Message ----- From: Lainey Alexander To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Sunday, October 18, 2009 8:16 PM Subject: [AquaticLife] Eheim backdrafting Hi Everyone - After cleaning my Eheim canister filter today I went to turn it back on and it blew debris all over my tank. Why would this be happening? Thanks, Lainey http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 43950	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 10/18/2009
Subject: Re: Eheim backdrafting

That's just some algae that was growing in the hose going back to the tank and when you started the filter back up, the sudden rush of water loosened some of it. This happens with my Rena Filstar canister filters also. Something you can do is un-plug the filter for a few minutes, then restart it to get this effect first... then do the gravel vacuuming to suck up most of this algae. In my goldfish tank, the goldfish treat this like a smorgasbord and go around eating it up as fast as they can. LOL I do remove the two hoses every year or so and pull a bottle brush through them to give them a good cleaning but I do not know if this is even necessary unless the build-up started to impede water flow... which it never has. Are your hoses clear, white, black or ??? The hoses on my Rena Filstar's are kind of clear and I've read that black/dark hoses would impede the algae growth. I've thought about getting some kind of covering for the clear hoses but haven't done so yet since I do not consider it that much of a problem. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Lainey Alexander Sent: Sunday, October 18, 2009 7:17 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Eheim backdrafting Hi Everyone - After cleaning my Eheim canister filter today I went to turn it back on and it blew debris all over my tank. Why would this be happening? Thanks, Lainey http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 43951	From: pam andress	Date: 10/18/2009
Subject: Re: Eheim backdrafting

I have fluvals and they do this too. (black hoses). I just put a net on the outflow just before starting and try to catch some of it. Pam To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com From: GoldLenny@... Date: Sun, 18 Oct 2009 20:57:19 -0500 Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Eheim backdrafting That's just some algae that was growing in the hose going back to the tank and when you started the filter back up, the sudden rush of water loosened some of it. This happens with my Rena Filstar canister filters also. Something you can do is un-plug the filter for a few minutes, then restart it to get this effect first... then do the gravel vacuuming to suck up most of this algae. In my goldfish tank, the goldfish treat this like a smorgasbord and go around eating it up as fast as they can. LOL I do remove the two hoses every year or so and pull a bottle brush through them to give them a good cleaning but I do not know if this is even necessary unless the build-up started to impede water flow... which it never has. Are your hoses clear, white, black or ??? The hoses on my Rena Filstar's are kind of clear and I've read that black/dark hoses would impede the algae growth. I've thought about getting some kind of covering for the clear hoses but haven't done so yet since I do not consider it that much of a problem. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Lainey Alexander Sent: Sunday, October 18, 2009 7:17 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Eheim backdrafting Hi Everyone - After cleaning my Eheim canister filter today I went to turn it back on and it blew debris all over my tank. Why would this be happening? Thanks, Lainey http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 43952	From: bruce cohen	Date: 10/19/2009
Subject: Re: Eheim backdrafting

eheim hoses are green, jbj has bown hoses and in the jbjs they go get algae. --- On Sun, 10/18/09, Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@...> wrote: From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@...> Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Eheim backdrafting To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Date: Sunday, October 18, 2009, 6:57 PM   That's just some algae that was growing in the hose going back to the tank and when you started the filter back up, the sudden rush of water loosened some of it. This happens with my Rena Filstar canister filters also. Something you can do is un-plug the filter for a few minutes, then restart it to get this effect first... then do the gravel vacuuming to suck up most of this algae. In my goldfish tank, the goldfish treat this like a smorgasbord and go around eating it up as fast as they can. LOL I do remove the two hoses every year or so and pull a bottle brush through them to give them a good cleaning but I do not know if this is even necessary unless the build-up started to impede water flow... which it never has. Are your hoses clear, white, black or ??? The hoses on my Rena Filstar's are kind of clear and I've read that black/dark hoses would impede the algae growth. I've thought about getting some kind of covering for the clear hoses but haven't done so yet since I do not consider it that much of a problem. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com [mailto:AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com] On Behalf Of Lainey Alexander Sent: Sunday, October 18, 2009 7:17 PM To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com Subject: [AquaticLife] Eheim backdrafting Hi Everyone - After cleaning my Eheim canister filter today I went to turn it back on and it blew debris all over my tank. Why would this be happening? Thanks, Lainey http://www.grasslan dsgouldians. com [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 43953	From: mattyobones	Date: 10/19/2009
Subject: Re: Eheim backdrafting

--- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, pam andress <pamandress23@...> wrote: > I have Ehiems,Fluvals and Magnum canister and wet dry filters and it happens in all of them. I find more so in the Fluval 403, 404 and 405 canisters because they have ribbed hoses that clog easier then smooth hoses thus impeding the flo. They seem to hold on to the slime because of the ridges in the hose so everytime I clean the filters I clean the hoses. I learned the hard way after cleaning the filters and not the hoses. With the hoses being under water I could not see the filter stopped working because the blockage in the hose blocked the return thus almost killing some of my Angels. > > I have fluvals and they do this too. (black hoses). I just put a net on the outflow just before starting and try to catch some of it. > > > > Pam > > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > From: GoldLenny@... > Date: Sun, 18 Oct 2009 20:57:19 -0500 > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Eheim backdrafting > > > > > > That's just some algae that was growing in the hose going back to the tank > and when you started the filter back up, the sudden rush of water loosened > some of it. > > This happens with my Rena Filstar canister filters also. Something you can > do is un-plug the filter for a few minutes, then restart it to get this > effect first... then do the gravel vacuuming to suck up most of this algae. > In my goldfish tank, the goldfish treat this like a smorgasbord and go > around eating it up as fast as they can. LOL > > I do remove the two hoses every year or so and pull a bottle brush through > them to give them a good cleaning but I do not know if this is even > necessary unless the build-up started to impede water flow... which it never > has. > > Are your hoses clear, white, black or ??? The hoses on my Rena Filstar's > are kind of clear and I've read that black/dark hoses would impede the algae > growth. I've thought about getting some kind of covering for the clear > hoses but haven't done so yet since I do not consider it that much of a > problem. > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right > side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On > Behalf Of Lainey Alexander > Sent: Sunday, October 18, 2009 7:17 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Subject: [AquaticLife] Eheim backdrafting > > Hi Everyone - > > After cleaning my Eheim canister filter today I went to turn it back on and > it blew debris all over my tank. Why would this be happening? > > Thanks, > > Lainey > http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com > > > > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 43954	From: Lainey Alexander	Date: 10/19/2009
Subject: Re: Eheim backdrafting

The backdrafting was pretty severe and now I see two Siamese algae eaters have died. I think it was something more than routine hose blockage. In order to be able to use my driftwood and prevent tannin staining, I tried to place a bag of carbon in the Eheim as instructed by a fish store manager and this is what seems to have caused the backdrafting. As soon as I removed the carbon the filter stopped doing this. But I could tell it was serious and obviously it was because the two fish have died, I may lose more. I don't know why the store didn't tell me there is a carbon filter for the Eheim! Now I find this out too late - but shoving a bag of GAcarbon into the filter was not a good idea. I followed exact instructions on how and where to place the bag, but somehow it must not have worked. Lainey http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com On Oct 19, 2009, at 8:05 AM, mattyobones wrote: > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, pam andress <pamandress23@...> > wrote: > > > I have Ehiems,Fluvals and Magnum canister and wet dry filters and > it happens in all of them. I find more so in the Fluval 403, 404 > and 405 canisters because they have ribbed hoses that clog easier > then smooth hoses thus impeding the flo. They seem to hold on to > the slime because of the ridges in the hose so everytime I clean > the filters I clean the hoses. I learned the hard way after > cleaning the filters and not the hoses. With the hoses being under > water I could not see the filter stopped working because the > blockage in the hose blocked the return thus almost killing some of > my Angels. > > > > > I have fluvals and they do this too. (black hoses). I just put a > net on the outflow just before starting and try to catch some of it. > > > > > > > > Pam > > > > > > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > From: GoldLenny@... > > Date: Sun, 18 Oct 2009 20:57:19 -0500 > > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Eheim backdrafting > > > > > > > > > > > > That's just some algae that was growing in the hose going back to > the tank > > and when you started the filter back up, the sudden rush of water > loosened > > some of it. > > > > This happens with my Rena Filstar canister filters also. > Something you can > > do is un-plug the filter for a few minutes, then restart it to > get this > > effect first... then do the gravel vacuuming to suck up most of > this algae. > > In my goldfish tank, the goldfish treat this like a smorgasbord > and go > > around eating it up as fast as they can. LOL > > > > I do remove the two hoses every year or so and pull a bottle > brush through > > them to give them a good cleaning but I do not know if this is even > > necessary unless the build-up started to impede water flow... > which it never > > has. > > > > Are your hoses clear, white, black or ??? The hoses on my Rena > Filstar's > > are kind of clear and I've read that black/dark hoses would > impede the algae > > growth. I've thought about getting some kind of covering for the > clear > > hoses but haven't done so yet since I do not consider it that > much of a > > problem. > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > > (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on > the right > > side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by > Year, Month) > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On > > Behalf Of Lainey Alexander > > Sent: Sunday, October 18, 2009 7:17 PM > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > Subject: [AquaticLife] Eheim backdrafting > > > > Hi Everyone - > > > > After cleaning my Eheim canister filter today I went to turn it > back on and > > it blew debris all over my tank. Why would this be happening? > > > > Thanks, > > > > Lainey > > http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 43955	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 10/19/2009
Subject: Re: Eheim backdrafting

Could this have been loose carbon pieces instead of detritus/algae in your hoses? Did you use a pre-packaged bag of carbon or make your own? Did you rinse the bag first, under your faucet, to rinse off smaller pieces and dust that would fit through the mesh bag holding the carbon? YOU DO NOT have to use manufacturers products for most canister filters. Other than the two blocks of sponge (smaller pore and larger pore) in my Rena Filstar's, I do not think any thing else in either canister is from Rena... even though they sell all of the various pre-packaged so-called specialized fit filter mediums. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Lainey Alexander Sent: Monday, October 19, 2009 10:21 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: Eheim backdrafting The backdrafting was pretty severe and now I see two Siamese algae eaters have died. I think it was something more than routine hose blockage. In order to be able to use my driftwood and prevent tannin staining, I tried to place a bag of carbon in the Eheim as instructed by a fish store manager and this is what seems to have caused the backdrafting. As soon as I removed the carbon the filter stopped doing this. But I could tell it was serious and obviously it was because the two fish have died, I may lose more. I don't know why the store didn't tell me there is a carbon filter for the Eheim! Now I find this out too late - but shoving a bag of GAcarbon into the filter was not a good idea. I followed exact instructions on how and where to place the bag, but somehow it must not have worked. Lainey http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com On Oct 19, 2009, at 8:05 AM, mattyobones wrote: > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, pam andress <pamandress23@...> > wrote: > > > I have Ehiems,Fluvals and Magnum canister and wet dry filters and it > happens in all of them. I find more so in the Fluval 403, 404 and 405 > canisters because they have ribbed hoses that clog easier then smooth > hoses thus impeding the flo. They seem to hold on to the slime because > of the ridges in the hose so everytime I clean the filters I clean the > hoses. I learned the hard way after cleaning the filters and not the > hoses. With the hoses being under water I could not see the filter > stopped working because the blockage in the hose blocked the return > thus almost killing some of my Angels. > > > > > I have fluvals and they do this too. (black hoses). I just put a > net on the outflow just before starting and try to catch some of it. > > > > > > > > Pam > > > > > > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > From: GoldLenny@... > > Date: Sun, 18 Oct 2009 20:57:19 -0500 > > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Eheim backdrafting > > > > > > > > > > > > That's just some algae that was growing in the hose going back to > the tank > > and when you started the filter back up, the sudden rush of water > loosened > > some of it. > > > > This happens with my Rena Filstar canister filters also. > Something you can > > do is un-plug the filter for a few minutes, then restart it to > get this > > effect first... then do the gravel vacuuming to suck up most of > this algae. > > In my goldfish tank, the goldfish treat this like a smorgasbord > and go > > around eating it up as fast as they can. LOL > > > > I do remove the two hoses every year or so and pull a bottle > brush through > > them to give them a good cleaning but I do not know if this is even > > necessary unless the build-up started to impede water flow... > which it never > > has. > > > > Are your hoses clear, white, black or ??? The hoses on my Rena > Filstar's > > are kind of clear and I've read that black/dark hoses would > impede the algae > > growth. I've thought about getting some kind of covering for the > clear > > hoses but haven't done so yet since I do not consider it that > much of a > > problem. > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles > > referenced in above reply are listed on > the right > > side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by > Year, Month) > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On > > Behalf Of Lainey Alexander > > Sent: Sunday, October 18, 2009 7:17 PM > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > Subject: [AquaticLife] Eheim backdrafting > > > > Hi Everyone - > > > > After cleaning my Eheim canister filter today I went to turn it > back on and > > it blew debris all over my tank. Why would this be happening? > > > > Thanks, > > > > Lainey > > http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 43956	From: Lainey Alexander	Date: 10/19/2009
Subject: Re: Eheim backdrafting

It was packaged carbon and I washed it well, and the detritus was not carbon it was little pieces of food and plants. The LFS guy is saying I did the carbon bag correctly and he doesn't know why the SAEs died. I will test all my water parameters today and see what's going on. But the tank was positively littered with detritus, and it kept doing it each time I shut off the filter and restarted it. Normally after a filter cleaning I see a little backdrafting ONE time, this kept on happening over and over like something was wrong. Oh well. Lainey http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com On Oct 19, 2009, at 11:33 AM, Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > Could this have been loose carbon pieces instead of detritus/algae > in your > hoses? Did you use a pre-packaged bag of carbon or make your own? > Did you > rinse the bag first, under your faucet, to rinse off smaller pieces > and dust > that would fit through the mesh bag holding the carbon? > > YOU DO NOT have to use manufacturers products for most canister > filters. > Other than the two blocks of sponge (smaller pore and larger pore) > in my > Rena Filstar's, I do not think any thing else in either canister is > from > Rena... even though they sell all of the various pre-packaged so- > called > specialized fit filter mediums. > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the > right > side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, > Month) > > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On > Behalf Of Lainey Alexander > Sent: Monday, October 19, 2009 10:21 AM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: Eheim backdrafting > > The backdrafting was pretty severe and now I see two Siamese algae > eaters > have died. I think it was something more than routine hose > blockage. In > order to be able to use my driftwood and prevent tannin staining, I > tried to > place a bag of carbon in the Eheim as instructed by a fish store > manager and > this is what seems to have caused the backdrafting. As soon as I > removed the > carbon the filter stopped doing this. But I could tell it was > serious and > obviously it was because the two fish have died, I may lose more. I > don't > know why the store didn't tell me there is a carbon filter for the > Eheim! > Now I find this out too late - but shoving a bag of GAcarbon into > the filter > was not a good idea. I followed exact instructions on how and where > to place > the bag, but somehow it must not have worked. > > Lainey > http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com > > On Oct 19, 2009, at 8:05 AM, mattyobones wrote: > > > > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, pam andress <pamandress23@...> > > wrote: > > > > > I have Ehiems,Fluvals and Magnum canister and wet dry filters and it > > happens in all of them. I find more so in the Fluval 403, 404 and > 405 > > canisters because they have ribbed hoses that clog easier then > smooth > > hoses thus impeding the flo. They seem to hold on to the slime > because > > of the ridges in the hose so everytime I clean the filters I > clean the > > hoses. I learned the hard way after cleaning the filters and not the > > hoses. With the hoses being under water I could not see the filter > > stopped working because the blockage in the hose blocked the return > > thus almost killing some of my Angels. > > > > > > > > I have fluvals and they do this too. (black hoses). I just put a > > net on the outflow just before starting and try to catch some of it. > > > > > > > > > > > > Pam > > > > > > > > > > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > > From: GoldLenny@... > > > Date: Sun, 18 Oct 2009 20:57:19 -0500 > > > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Eheim backdrafting > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > That's just some algae that was growing in the hose going back to > > the tank > > > and when you started the filter back up, the sudden rush of water > > loosened > > > some of it. > > > > > > This happens with my Rena Filstar canister filters also. > > Something you can > > > do is un-plug the filter for a few minutes, then restart it to > > get this > > > effect first... then do the gravel vacuuming to suck up most of > > this algae. > > > In my goldfish tank, the goldfish treat this like a smorgasbord > > and go > > > around eating it up as fast as they can. LOL > > > > > > I do remove the two hoses every year or so and pull a bottle > > brush through > > > them to give them a good cleaning but I do not know if this is > even > > > necessary unless the build-up started to impede water flow... > > which it never > > > has. > > > > > > Are your hoses clear, white, black or ??? The hoses on my Rena > > Filstar's > > > are kind of clear and I've read that black/dark hoses would > > impede the algae > > > growth. I've thought about getting some kind of covering for the > > clear > > > hoses but haven't done so yet since I do not consider it that > > much of a > > > problem. > > > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles > > > referenced in above reply are listed on > > the right > > > side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by > > Year, Month) > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On > > > Behalf Of Lainey Alexander > > > Sent: Sunday, October 18, 2009 7:17 PM > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > > Subject: [AquaticLife] Eheim backdrafting > > > > > > Hi Everyone - > > > > > > After cleaning my Eheim canister filter today I went to turn it > > back on and > > > it blew debris all over my tank. Why would this be happening? > > > > > > Thanks, > > > > > > Lainey > > > http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 43957	From: bill 1433	Date: 10/19/2009
Subject: Re: Eheim backdrafting

Hi Lainey, It might be an idea here to post the exact model of the Eheim filter your working with. There are many on the group that use these products and surely someone is using the exact same model you are and can help further. Bill --- On Mon, 10/19/09, Lainey Alexander <lainealex@...> wrote: > From: Lainey Alexander <lainealex@...> > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: Eheim backdrafting > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Date: Monday, October 19, 2009, 11:44 AM >   It was packaged carbon and I > washed it well, and the detritus was  > not carbon it was little pieces of food and plants. The LFS > guy is  > saying I did the carbon bag correctly and he doesn't know > why the  > SAEs died. I will test all my water parameters today and > see what's  > going on. But the tank was positively littered with > detritus, and it  > kept doing it each time I shut off the filter and restarted > it.  > Normally after a filter cleaning I see a little > backdrafting ONE  > time, this kept on happening over and over like something > was wrong.  > Oh well. > > Lainey > http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com > > On Oct 19, 2009, at 11:33 AM, Lenny V. aka GoldLenny > wrote: > > > Could this have been loose carbon pieces instead of > detritus/algae  > > in your > > hoses? Did you use a pre-packaged bag of carbon or > make your own?  > > Did you > > rinse the bag first, under your faucet, to rinse off > smaller pieces  > > and dust > > that would fit through the mesh bag holding the > carbon? > > > > YOU DO NOT have to use manufacturers products for most > canister  > > filters. > > Other than the two blocks of sponge (smaller pore and > larger pore)  > > in my > > Rena Filstar's, I do not think any thing else in > either canister is  > > from > > Rena... even though they sell all of the various > pre-packaged so- > > called > > specialized fit filter mediums. > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > > (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are > listed on the  > > right > > side, alphabetically under Labels and also under > Archives by Year,  > > Month) > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com  > > > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] > On > > Behalf Of Lainey Alexander > > Sent: Monday, October 19, 2009 10:21 AM > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: Eheim backdrafting > > > > The backdrafting was pretty severe and now I see two > Siamese algae  > > eaters > > have died. I think it was something more than routine > hose  > > blockage. In > > order to be able to use my driftwood and prevent > tannin staining, I  > > tried to > > place a bag of carbon in the Eheim as instructed by a > fish store  > > manager and > > this is what seems to have caused the backdrafting. As > soon as I  > > removed the > > carbon the filter stopped doing this. But I could tell > it was  > > serious and > > obviously it was because the two fish have died, I may > lose more. I  > > don't > > know why the store didn't tell me there is a carbon > filter for the  > > Eheim! > > Now I find this out too late - but shoving a bag of > GAcarbon into  > > the filter > > was not a good idea. I followed exact instructions on > how and where  > > to place > > the bag, but somehow it must not have worked. > > > > Lainey > > http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com > > > > On Oct 19, 2009, at 8:05 AM, mattyobones wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, > pam andress <pamandress23@...> > > > wrote: > > > > > > > I have Ehiems,Fluvals and Magnum canister and wet > dry filters and it > > > happens in all of them. I find more so in the > Fluval 403, 404 and  > > 405 > > > canisters because they have ribbed hoses that > clog easier then  > > smooth > > > hoses thus impeding the flo. They seem to hold on > to the slime  > > because > > > of the ridges in the hose so everytime I clean > the filters I  > > clean the > > > hoses. I learned the hard way after cleaning the > filters and not the > > > hoses. With the hoses being under water I could > not see the filter > > > stopped working because the blockage in the hose > blocked the return > > > thus almost killing some of my Angels. > > > > > > > > > > > I have fluvals and they do this too. (black > hoses). I just put a > > > net on the outflow just before starting and try > to catch some of it. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Pam > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > > > From: GoldLenny@... > > > > Date: Sun, 18 Oct 2009 20:57:19 -0500 > > > > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Eheim > backdrafting > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > That's just some algae that was growing in > the hose going back to > > > the tank > > > > and when you started the filter back up, the > sudden rush of water > > > loosened > > > > some of it. > > > > > > > > This happens with my Rena Filstar canister > filters also. > > > Something you can > > > > do is un-plug the filter for a few minutes, > then restart it to > > > get this > > > > effect first... then do the gravel vacuuming > to suck up most of > > > this algae. > > > > In my goldfish tank, the goldfish treat this > like a smorgasbord > > > and go > > > > around eating it up as fast as they can. > LOL > > > > > > > > I do remove the two hoses every year or so > and pull a bottle > > > brush through > > > > them to give them a good cleaning but I do > not know if this is  > > even > > > > necessary unless the build-up started to > impede water flow... > > > which it never > > > > has. > > > > > > > > Are your hoses clear, white, black or ??? > The hoses on my Rena > > > Filstar's > > > > are kind of clear and I've read that > black/dark hoses would > > > impede the algae > > > > growth. I've thought about getting some kind > of covering for the > > > clear > > > > hoses but haven't done so yet since I do not > consider it that > > > much of a > > > > problem. > > > > > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles > > > > referenced in above reply are listed on > > > the right > > > > side, alphabetically under Labels and also > under Archives by > > > Year, Month) > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] > On > > > > Behalf Of Lainey Alexander > > > > Sent: Sunday, October 18, 2009 7:17 PM > > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > > > Subject: [AquaticLife] Eheim backdrafting > > > > > > > > Hi Everyone - > > > > > > > > After cleaning my Eheim canister filter > today I went to turn it > > > back on and > > > > it blew debris all over my tank. Why would > this be happening? > > > > > > > > Thanks, > > > > > > > > Lainey > > > > http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > ------------------------------------ > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when > replying, Thank You. > ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> > ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> > PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is > NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of > the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new > subject (was re: old subject)" <- > <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. > , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. > > If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of > unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by > clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the home page.  > > Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com > to receive the digest, which includes up to 25 posts at a > time in a single email > > Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com > for the No E-Mail option where you will still be able to > read messages on the group and post replies. > > Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com > to receive individual e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links > > >     mailto:AquaticLife-fullfeatured@yahoogroups.com > > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 43958	From: Lainey Alexander	Date: 10/19/2009
Subject: Re: Eheim backdrafting

Pro 3 for rated for 65 gallons #2071 runs 250g per hour Lainey http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com On Oct 19, 2009, at 12:25 PM, bill 1433 wrote: > Hi Lainey, > > It might be an idea here to post the exact model of > the Eheim filter your working with. There are many on the > group that use these products and surely someone is using > the exact same model you are and can help further. > > Bill > > --- On Mon, 10/19/09, Lainey Alexander <lainealex@...> > wrote: > > > From: Lainey Alexander <lainealex@...> > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: Eheim backdrafting > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > Date: Monday, October 19, 2009, 11:44 AM > > It was packaged carbon and I > > washed it well, and the detritus was > > not carbon it was little pieces of food and plants. The LFS > > guy is > > saying I did the carbon bag correctly and he doesn't know > > why the > > SAEs died. I will test all my water parameters today and > > see what's > > going on. But the tank was positively littered with > > detritus, and it > > kept doing it each time I shut off the filter and restarted > > it. > > Normally after a filter cleaning I see a little > > backdrafting ONE > > time, this kept on happening over and over like something > > was wrong. > > Oh well. > > > > Lainey > > http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com > > > > On Oct 19, 2009, at 11:33 AM, Lenny V. aka GoldLenny > > wrote: > > > > > Could this have been loose carbon pieces instead of > > detritus/algae > > > in your > > > hoses? Did you use a pre-packaged bag of carbon or > > make your own? > > > Did you > > > rinse the bag first, under your faucet, to rinse off > > smaller pieces > > > and dust > > > that would fit through the mesh bag holding the > > carbon? > > > > > > YOU DO NOT have to use manufacturers products for most > > canister > > > filters. > > > Other than the two blocks of sponge (smaller pore and > > larger pore) > > > in my > > > Rena Filstar's, I do not think any thing else in > > either canister is > > > from > > > Rena... even though they sell all of the various > > pre-packaged so- > > > called > > > specialized fit filter mediums. > > > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > > > (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are > > listed on the > > > right > > > side, alphabetically under Labels and also under > > Archives by Year, > > > Month) > > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > > > > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] > > On > > > Behalf Of Lainey Alexander > > > Sent: Monday, October 19, 2009 10:21 AM > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: Eheim backdrafting > > > > > > The backdrafting was pretty severe and now I see two > > Siamese algae > > > eaters > > > have died. I think it was something more than routine > > hose > > > blockage. In > > > order to be able to use my driftwood and prevent > > tannin staining, I > > > tried to > > > place a bag of carbon in the Eheim as instructed by a > > fish store > > > manager and > > > this is what seems to have caused the backdrafting. As > > soon as I > > > removed the > > > carbon the filter stopped doing this. But I could tell > > it was > > > serious and > > > obviously it was because the two fish have died, I may > > lose more. I > > > don't > > > know why the store didn't tell me there is a carbon > > filter for the > > > Eheim! > > > Now I find this out too late - but shoving a bag of > > GAcarbon into > > > the filter > > > was not a good idea. I followed exact instructions on > > how and where > > > to place > > > the bag, but somehow it must not have worked. > > > > > > Lainey > > > http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com > > > > > > On Oct 19, 2009, at 8:05 AM, mattyobones wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, > > pam andress <pamandress23@...> > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > I have Ehiems,Fluvals and Magnum canister and wet > > dry filters and it > > > > happens in all of them. I find more so in the > > Fluval 403, 404 and > > > 405 > > > > canisters because they have ribbed hoses that > > clog easier then > > > smooth > > > > hoses thus impeding the flo. They seem to hold on > > to the slime > > > because > > > > of the ridges in the hose so everytime I clean > > the filters I > > > clean the > > > > hoses. I learned the hard way after cleaning the > > filters and not the > > > > hoses. With the hoses being under water I could > > not see the filter > > > > stopped working because the blockage in the hose > > blocked the return > > > > thus almost killing some of my Angels. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I have fluvals and they do this too. (black > > hoses). I just put a > > > > net on the outflow just before starting and try > > to catch some of it. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Pam > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > > > > From: GoldLenny@... > > > > > Date: Sun, 18 Oct 2009 20:57:19 -0500 > > > > > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Eheim > > backdrafting > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > That's just some algae that was growing in > > the hose going back to > > > > the tank > > > > > and when you started the filter back up, the > > sudden rush of water > > > > loosened > > > > > some of it. > > > > > > > > > > This happens with my Rena Filstar canister > > filters also. > > > > Something you can > > > > > do is un-plug the filter for a few minutes, > > then restart it to > > > > get this > > > > > effect first... then do the gravel vacuuming > > to suck up most of > > > > this algae. > > > > > In my goldfish tank, the goldfish treat this > > like a smorgasbord > > > > and go > > > > > around eating it up as fast as they can. > > LOL > > > > > > > > > > I do remove the two hoses every year or so > > and pull a bottle > > > > brush through > > > > > them to give them a good cleaning but I do > > not know if this is > > > even > > > > > necessary unless the build-up started to > > impede water flow... > > > > which it never > > > > > has. > > > > > > > > > > Are your hoses clear, white, black or ??? > > The hoses on my Rena > > > > Filstar's > > > > > are kind of clear and I've read that > > black/dark hoses would > > > > impede the algae > > > > > growth. I've thought about getting some kind > > of covering for the > > > > clear > > > > > hoses but haven't done so yet since I do not > > consider it that > > > > much of a > > > > > problem. > > > > > > > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > > > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any > articles > > > > > referenced in above reply are listed on > > > > the right > > > > > side, alphabetically under Labels and also > > under Archives by > > > > Year, Month) > > > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > > > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] > > On > > > > > Behalf Of Lainey Alexander > > > > > Sent: Sunday, October 18, 2009 7:17 PM > > > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > > > > Subject: [AquaticLife] Eheim backdrafting > > > > > > > > > > Hi Everyone - > > > > > > > > > > After cleaning my Eheim canister filter > > today I went to turn it > > > > back on and > > > > > it blew debris all over my tank. Why would > > this be happening? > > > > > > > > > > Thanks, > > > > > > > > > > Lainey > > > > > http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com > > > > > > > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > > > > > ------------------------------------ > > > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when > > replying, Thank You. > > ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> > > ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> > > PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is > > NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of > > the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new > > subject (was re: old subject)" <- > > <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. > > , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. > > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. > > > > If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of > > unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by > > clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the home page. > > > > Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com > > to receive the digest, which includes up to 25 posts at a > > time in a single email > > > > Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com > > for the No E-Mail option where you will still be able to > > read messages on the group and post replies. > > > > Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com > > to receive individual e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > mailto:AquaticLife-fullfeatured@yahoogroups.com > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 43959	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 10/19/2009
Subject: Re: Eheim backdrafting

You would have to take pictures showing us how you put the carbon packet in the filter. That would be a lot easier than trying to explain it... you know the saying about a picture is worth a thousand words... but it sure sounds like the carbon packet was causing bypass inside the filter canister itself. Some canister filters have a *safety system* built in so that if the filter media gets clogged up so much that water can no longer flow through it, it will bypass the filter media and go right back to the return hose. This supposedly protects the motor from overheating/burning up but it can also allow detritus that was in the filter or that is sucked up into the intake to go right back out the return line. I know that is something that Rena advertises just the opposite... saying there is no way for water to bypass the filter media... but I've seen photos of other canister filters (not Eheim that I can remember) that do show the bypass outlets. Rena tries to say that those canister filters allow for dirty water to bypass the filter media instead of getting filtered but I also understand why a company would have a bypass method. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Lainey Alexander Sent: Monday, October 19, 2009 10:44 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: Eheim backdrafting It was packaged carbon and I washed it well, and the detritus was not carbon it was little pieces of food and plants. The LFS guy is saying I did the carbon bag correctly and he doesn't know why the SAEs died. I will test all my water parameters today and see what's going on. But the tank was positively littered with detritus, and it kept doing it each time I shut off the filter and restarted it. Normally after a filter cleaning I see a little backdrafting ONE time, this kept on happening over and over like something was wrong. Oh well. Lainey http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com On Oct 19, 2009, at 11:33 AM, Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > Could this have been loose carbon pieces instead of detritus/algae in > your hoses? Did you use a pre-packaged bag of carbon or make your own? > Did you > rinse the bag first, under your faucet, to rinse off smaller pieces > and dust that would fit through the mesh bag holding the carbon? > > YOU DO NOT have to use manufacturers products for most canister > filters. > Other than the two blocks of sponge (smaller pore and larger pore) in > my Rena Filstar's, I do not think any thing else in either canister is > from Rena... even though they sell all of the various pre-packaged so- > called specialized fit filter mediums. > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles > referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically > under Labels and also under Archives by Year, > Month) > > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Lainey Alexander > Sent: Monday, October 19, 2009 10:21 AM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: Eheim backdrafting > > The backdrafting was pretty severe and now I see two Siamese algae > eaters have died. I think it was something more than routine hose > blockage. In order to be able to use my driftwood and prevent tannin > staining, I tried to place a bag of carbon in the Eheim as instructed > by a fish store manager and this is what seems to have caused the > backdrafting. As soon as I removed the carbon the filter stopped doing > this. But I could tell it was serious and obviously it was because the > two fish have died, I may lose more. I don't know why the store didn't > tell me there is a carbon filter for the Eheim! > Now I find this out too late - but shoving a bag of GAcarbon into the > filter was not a good idea. I followed exact instructions on how and > where to place the bag, but somehow it must not have worked. > > Lainey > http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com > > On Oct 19, 2009, at 8:05 AM, mattyobones wrote: > > > > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, pam andress <pamandress23@...> > > wrote: > > > > > I have Ehiems,Fluvals and Magnum canister and wet dry filters and it > > happens in all of them. I find more so in the Fluval 403, 404 and > 405 > > canisters because they have ribbed hoses that clog easier then > smooth > > hoses thus impeding the flo. They seem to hold on to the slime > because > > of the ridges in the hose so everytime I clean the filters I > clean the > > hoses. I learned the hard way after cleaning the filters and not the > > hoses. With the hoses being under water I could not see the filter > > stopped working because the blockage in the hose blocked the return > > thus almost killing some of my Angels. > > > > > > > > I have fluvals and they do this too. (black hoses). I just put a > > net on the outflow just before starting and try to catch some of it. > > > > > > > > > > > > Pam > > > > > > > > > > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > > From: GoldLenny@... > > > Date: Sun, 18 Oct 2009 20:57:19 -0500 > > > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Eheim backdrafting > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > That's just some algae that was growing in the hose going back to > > the tank > > > and when you started the filter back up, the sudden rush of water > > loosened > > > some of it. > > > > > > This happens with my Rena Filstar canister filters also. > > Something you can > > > do is un-plug the filter for a few minutes, then restart it to > > get this > > > effect first... then do the gravel vacuuming to suck up most of > > this algae. > > > In my goldfish tank, the goldfish treat this like a smorgasbord > > and go > > > around eating it up as fast as they can. LOL > > > > > > I do remove the two hoses every year or so and pull a bottle > > brush through > > > them to give them a good cleaning but I do not know if this is > even > > > necessary unless the build-up started to impede water flow... > > which it never > > > has. > > > > > > Are your hoses clear, white, black or ??? The hoses on my Rena > > Filstar's > > > are kind of clear and I've read that black/dark hoses would > > impede the algae > > > growth. I've thought about getting some kind of covering for the > > clear > > > hoses but haven't done so yet since I do not consider it that > > much of a > > > problem. > > > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles > > > referenced in above reply are listed on > > the right > > > side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by > > Year, Month) > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On > > > Behalf Of Lainey Alexander > > > Sent: Sunday, October 18, 2009 7:17 PM > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > > Subject: [AquaticLife] Eheim backdrafting > > > > > > Hi Everyone - > > > > > > After cleaning my Eheim canister filter today I went to turn it > > back on and > > > it blew debris all over my tank. Why would this be happening? > > > > > > Thanks, > > > > > > Lainey > > > http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 43960	From: Lainey Alexander	Date: 10/19/2009
Subject: Re: Eheim backdrafting

So does it make sense that the backflow might have killed the SAEs? Not sure I can take a picture because I don't want to put the carbon back in and get myself into any more trouble/fatalities. I just won't do this again. Testing ammonia and nitrates today they are both at zero. Lainey http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com On Oct 19, 2009, at 3:27 PM, Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > You would have to take pictures showing us how you put the carbon > packet in > the filter. That would be a lot easier than trying to explain it... > you > know the saying about a picture is worth a thousand words... but it > sure > sounds like the carbon packet was causing bypass inside the filter > canister > itself. Some canister filters have a *safety system* built in so > that if > the filter media gets clogged up so much that water can no longer flow > through it, it will bypass the filter media and go right back to > the return > hose. This supposedly protects the motor from overheating/burning > up but it > can also allow detritus that was in the filter or that is sucked up > into the > intake to go right back out the return line. I know that is > something that > Rena advertises just the opposite... saying there is no way for > water to > bypass the filter media... but I've seen photos of other canister > filters > (not Eheim that I can remember) that do show the bypass outlets. > Rena tries > to say that those canister filters allow for dirty water to bypass the > filter media instead of getting filtered but I also understand why > a company > would have a bypass method. > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the > right > side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, > Month) > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On > Behalf Of Lainey Alexander > Sent: Monday, October 19, 2009 10:44 AM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: Eheim backdrafting > > It was packaged carbon and I washed it well, and the detritus was not > carbon it was little pieces of food and plants. The LFS guy is > saying I did > the carbon bag correctly and he doesn't know why the SAEs died. I > will test > all my water parameters today and see what's going on. But the tank > was > positively littered with detritus, and it kept doing it each time I > shut off > the filter and restarted it. > Normally after a filter cleaning I see a little backdrafting ONE > time, this > kept on happening over and over like something was wrong. > Oh well. > > Lainey > http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com > > On Oct 19, 2009, at 11:33 AM, Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > > > Could this have been loose carbon pieces instead of detritus/ > algae in > > your hoses? Did you use a pre-packaged bag of carbon or make your > own? > > Did you > > rinse the bag first, under your faucet, to rinse off smaller pieces > > and dust that would fit through the mesh bag holding the carbon? > > > > YOU DO NOT have to use manufacturers products for most canister > > filters. > > Other than the two blocks of sponge (smaller pore and larger > pore) in > > my Rena Filstar's, I do not think any thing else in either > canister is > > from Rena... even though they sell all of the various pre- > packaged so- > > called specialized fit filter mediums. > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles > > referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, > alphabetically > > under Labels and also under Archives by Year, > > Month) > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Lainey Alexander > > Sent: Monday, October 19, 2009 10:21 AM > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: Eheim backdrafting > > > > The backdrafting was pretty severe and now I see two Siamese algae > > eaters have died. I think it was something more than routine hose > > blockage. In order to be able to use my driftwood and prevent tannin > > staining, I tried to place a bag of carbon in the Eheim as > instructed > > by a fish store manager and this is what seems to have caused the > > backdrafting. As soon as I removed the carbon the filter stopped > doing > > this. But I could tell it was serious and obviously it was > because the > > two fish have died, I may lose more. I don't know why the store > didn't > > tell me there is a carbon filter for the Eheim! > > Now I find this out too late - but shoving a bag of GAcarbon into > the > > filter was not a good idea. I followed exact instructions on how and > > where to place the bag, but somehow it must not have worked. > > > > Lainey > > http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com > > > > On Oct 19, 2009, at 8:05 AM, mattyobones wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, pam andress <pamandress23@...> > > > wrote: > > > > > > > I have Ehiems,Fluvals and Magnum canister and wet dry filters > and it > > > happens in all of them. I find more so in the Fluval 403, 404 and > > 405 > > > canisters because they have ribbed hoses that clog easier then > > smooth > > > hoses thus impeding the flo. They seem to hold on to the slime > > because > > > of the ridges in the hose so everytime I clean the filters I > > clean the > > > hoses. I learned the hard way after cleaning the filters and > not the > > > hoses. With the hoses being under water I could not see the filter > > > stopped working because the blockage in the hose blocked the > return > > > thus almost killing some of my Angels. > > > > > > > > > > > I have fluvals and they do this too. (black hoses). I just put a > > > net on the outflow just before starting and try to catch some > of it. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Pam > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > > > From: GoldLenny@... > > > > Date: Sun, 18 Oct 2009 20:57:19 -0500 > > > > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Eheim backdrafting > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > That's just some algae that was growing in the hose going > back to > > > the tank > > > > and when you started the filter back up, the sudden rush of > water > > > loosened > > > > some of it. > > > > > > > > This happens with my Rena Filstar canister filters also. > > > Something you can > > > > do is un-plug the filter for a few minutes, then restart it to > > > get this > > > > effect first... then do the gravel vacuuming to suck up most of > > > this algae. > > > > In my goldfish tank, the goldfish treat this like a smorgasbord > > > and go > > > > around eating it up as fast as they can. LOL > > > > > > > > I do remove the two hoses every year or so and pull a bottle > > > brush through > > > > them to give them a good cleaning but I do not know if this is > > even > > > > necessary unless the build-up started to impede water flow... > > > which it never > > > > has. > > > > > > > > Are your hoses clear, white, black or ??? The hoses on my Rena > > > Filstar's > > > > are kind of clear and I've read that black/dark hoses would > > > impede the algae > > > > growth. I've thought about getting some kind of covering for the > > > clear > > > > hoses but haven't done so yet since I do not consider it that > > > much of a > > > > problem. > > > > > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles > > > > referenced in above reply are listed on > > > the right > > > > side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by > > > Year, Month) > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On > > > > Behalf Of Lainey Alexander > > > > Sent: Sunday, October 18, 2009 7:17 PM > > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > > > Subject: [AquaticLife] Eheim backdrafting > > > > > > > > Hi Everyone - > > > > > > > > After cleaning my Eheim canister filter today I went to turn it > > > back on and > > > > it blew debris all over my tank. Why would this be happening? > > > > > > > > Thanks, > > > > > > > > Lainey > > > > http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 43961	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 10/19/2009
Subject: Re: Eheim backdrafting

Here's a download page on Eheim.com for downloading Owner's Manuals, etc. http://www.eheim.com/base/eheim/inhalte/indexd861.html?id=28898 External Canister page... but no Model 2071. http://www.eheim.com/base/eheim/inhalte/index1e78.html?key=downloads_25071_e hen&list=afilter Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Lainey Alexander Sent: Monday, October 19, 2009 11:32 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: Eheim backdrafting Pro 3 for rated for 65 gallons #2071 runs 250g per hour Lainey http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com On Oct 19, 2009, at 12:25 PM, bill 1433 wrote: > Hi Lainey, > > It might be an idea here to post the exact model of the Eheim filter > your working with. There are many on the group that use these products > and surely someone is using the exact same model you are and can help > further. > > Bill > > --- On Mon, 10/19/09, Lainey Alexander <lainealex@...> > wrote: > > > From: Lainey Alexander <lainealex@...> > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: Eheim backdrafting > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > Date: Monday, October 19, 2009, 11:44 AM > > It was packaged carbon and I > > washed it well, and the detritus was not carbon it was little pieces > > of food and plants. The LFS guy is saying I did the carbon bag > > correctly and he doesn't know why the SAEs died. I will test all my > > water parameters today and see what's going on. But the tank was > > positively littered with detritus, and it kept doing it each time I > > shut off the filter and restarted it. > > Normally after a filter cleaning I see a little backdrafting ONE > > time, this kept on happening over and over like something was wrong. > > Oh well. > > > > Lainey > > http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com > > > > On Oct 19, 2009, at 11:33 AM, Lenny V. aka GoldLenny > > wrote: > > > > > Could this have been loose carbon pieces instead of > > detritus/algae > > > in your > > > hoses? Did you use a pre-packaged bag of carbon or > > make your own? > > > Did you > > > rinse the bag first, under your faucet, to rinse off > > smaller pieces > > > and dust > > > that would fit through the mesh bag holding the > > carbon? > > > > > > YOU DO NOT have to use manufacturers products for most > > canister > > > filters. > > > Other than the two blocks of sponge (smaller pore and > > larger pore) > > > in my > > > Rena Filstar's, I do not think any thing else in > > either canister is > > > from > > > Rena... even though they sell all of the various > > pre-packaged so- > > > called > > > specialized fit filter mediums. > > > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles > > > referenced in above reply are > > listed on the > > > right > > > side, alphabetically under Labels and also under > > Archives by Year, > > > Month) > > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > > > > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] > > On > > > Behalf Of Lainey Alexander > > > Sent: Monday, October 19, 2009 10:21 AM > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: Eheim backdrafting > > > > > > The backdrafting was pretty severe and now I see two > > Siamese algae > > > eaters > > > have died. I think it was something more than routine > > hose > > > blockage. In > > > order to be able to use my driftwood and prevent > > tannin staining, I > > > tried to > > > place a bag of carbon in the Eheim as instructed by a > > fish store > > > manager and > > > this is what seems to have caused the backdrafting. As > > soon as I > > > removed the > > > carbon the filter stopped doing this. But I could tell > > it was > > > serious and > > > obviously it was because the two fish have died, I may > > lose more. I > > > don't > > > know why the store didn't tell me there is a carbon > > filter for the > > > Eheim! > > > Now I find this out too late - but shoving a bag of > > GAcarbon into > > > the filter > > > was not a good idea. I followed exact instructions on > > how and where > > > to place > > > the bag, but somehow it must not have worked. > > > > > > Lainey > > > http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com > > > > > > On Oct 19, 2009, at 8:05 AM, mattyobones wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, > > pam andress <pamandress23@...> > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > I have Ehiems,Fluvals and Magnum canister and wet > > dry filters and it > > > > happens in all of them. I find more so in the > > Fluval 403, 404 and > > > 405 > > > > canisters because they have ribbed hoses that > > clog easier then > > > smooth > > > > hoses thus impeding the flo. They seem to hold on > > to the slime > > > because > > > > of the ridges in the hose so everytime I clean > > the filters I > > > clean the > > > > hoses. I learned the hard way after cleaning the > > filters and not the > > > > hoses. With the hoses being under water I could > > not see the filter > > > > stopped working because the blockage in the hose > > blocked the return > > > > thus almost killing some of my Angels. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I have fluvals and they do this too. (black > > hoses). I just put a > > > > net on the outflow just before starting and try > > to catch some of it. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Pam > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > > > > From: GoldLenny@... > > > > > Date: Sun, 18 Oct 2009 20:57:19 -0500 > > > > > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Eheim > > backdrafting > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > That's just some algae that was growing in > > the hose going back to > > > > the tank > > > > > and when you started the filter back up, the > > sudden rush of water > > > > loosened > > > > > some of it. > > > > > > > > > > This happens with my Rena Filstar canister > > filters also. > > > > Something you can > > > > > do is un-plug the filter for a few minutes, > > then restart it to > > > > get this > > > > > effect first... then do the gravel vacuuming > > to suck up most of > > > > this algae. > > > > > In my goldfish tank, the goldfish treat this > > like a smorgasbord > > > > and go > > > > > around eating it up as fast as they can. > > LOL > > > > > > > > > > I do remove the two hoses every year or so > > and pull a bottle > > > > brush through > > > > > them to give them a good cleaning but I do > > not know if this is > > > even > > > > > necessary unless the build-up started to > > impede water flow... > > > > which it never > > > > > has. > > > > > > > > > > Are your hoses clear, white, black or ??? > > The hoses on my Rena > > > > Filstar's > > > > > are kind of clear and I've read that > > black/dark hoses would > > > > impede the algae > > > > > growth. I've thought about getting some kind > > of covering for the > > > > clear > > > > > hoses but haven't done so yet since I do not > > consider it that > > > > much of a > > > > > problem. > > > > > > > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > > > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any > articles > > > > > referenced in above reply are listed on > > > > the right > > > > > side, alphabetically under Labels and also > > under Archives by > > > > Year, Month) > > > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > > > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] > > On > > > > > Behalf Of Lainey Alexander > > > > > Sent: Sunday, October 18, 2009 7:17 PM > > > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > > > > Subject: [AquaticLife] Eheim backdrafting > > > > > > > > > > Hi Everyone - > > > > > > > > > > After cleaning my Eheim canister filter > > today I went to turn it > > > > back on and > > > > > it blew debris all over my tank. Why would > > this be happening? > > > > > > > > > > Thanks, > > > > > > > > > > Lainey > > > > > http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 43962	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 10/19/2009
Subject: Re: Eheim backdrafting

I'm not sure that anything in your filter would have killed the SAE's abruptly... unless it was small pieces of carbon and they ingested that... but you seem to have ruled that out. They should not be immediately bothered by any detritus... after all, they live in the same tank with their detritus and the water is flowing through the filter media, through their own detritus before returning to the tank (which is why it's important to clean the filter on a weekly basis instead of waiting months like some people do). Doing filter maintenance is important and necessary and should NEVER cause fish health problems... instead it should make things better for the tank. Whether you see this temporary burst of algae into the water or not, it's still in the tank's ecosystem since the water is flowing through it constantly. If it's stuck to the inside of the filter hose or down in the gravel, it's all part of the ecosystem. I can assure you that there is a LOT more detritus down in the gravel than what you saw come out of your filter hose. It's just that you could see it for a little while after restarting the canister that bothers you so just ignore this until it settles down or gets sucked into the filter system again. I'm still not sure how/why the carbon package would be causing a problem if you rinsed it first... unless it was somehow clogging the intake of the filter system causing the dirty water to bypass the filter media. I tried to look at an owners manual for your model to see if I could figure out what was going wrong but could not find your model number. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Lainey Alexander Sent: Monday, October 19, 2009 2:50 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: Eheim backdrafting So does it make sense that the backflow might have killed the SAEs? Not sure I can take a picture because I don't want to put the carbon back in and get myself into any more trouble/fatalities. I just won't do this again. Testing ammonia and nitrates today they are both at zero. Lainey http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com On Oct 19, 2009, at 3:27 PM, Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > You would have to take pictures showing us how you put the carbon > packet in the filter. That would be a lot easier than trying to > explain it... > you > know the saying about a picture is worth a thousand words... but it > sure sounds like the carbon packet was causing bypass inside the > filter canister itself. Some canister filters have a *safety system* > built in so that if the filter media gets clogged up so much that > water can no longer flow through it, it will bypass the filter media > and go right back to the return hose. This supposedly protects the > motor from overheating/burning up but it can also allow detritus that > was in the filter or that is sucked up into the intake to go right > back out the return line. I know that is something that Rena > advertises just the opposite... saying there is no way for water to > bypass the filter media... but I've seen photos of other canister > filters (not Eheim that I can remember) that do show the bypass > outlets. > Rena tries > to say that those canister filters allow for dirty water to bypass the > filter media instead of getting filtered but I also understand why a > company would have a bypass method. > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles > referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically > under Labels and also under Archives by Year, > Month) > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Lainey Alexander > Sent: Monday, October 19, 2009 10:44 AM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: Eheim backdrafting > > It was packaged carbon and I washed it well, and the detritus was not > carbon it was little pieces of food and plants. The LFS guy is saying > I did the carbon bag correctly and he doesn't know why the SAEs died. > I will test all my water parameters today and see what's going on. But > the tank was positively littered with detritus, and it kept doing it > each time I shut off the filter and restarted it. > Normally after a filter cleaning I see a little backdrafting ONE time, > this kept on happening over and over like something was wrong. > Oh well. > > Lainey > http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com > > On Oct 19, 2009, at 11:33 AM, Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > > > Could this have been loose carbon pieces instead of detritus/ > algae in > > your hoses? Did you use a pre-packaged bag of carbon or make your > own? > > Did you > > rinse the bag first, under your faucet, to rinse off smaller pieces > > and dust that would fit through the mesh bag holding the carbon? > > > > YOU DO NOT have to use manufacturers products for most canister > > filters. > > Other than the two blocks of sponge (smaller pore and larger > pore) in > > my Rena Filstar's, I do not think any thing else in either > canister is > > from Rena... even though they sell all of the various pre- > packaged so- > > called specialized fit filter mediums. > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles > > referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, > alphabetically > > under Labels and also under Archives by Year, > > Month) > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Lainey Alexander > > Sent: Monday, October 19, 2009 10:21 AM > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: Eheim backdrafting > > > > The backdrafting was pretty severe and now I see two Siamese algae > > eaters have died. I think it was something more than routine hose > > blockage. In order to be able to use my driftwood and prevent tannin > > staining, I tried to place a bag of carbon in the Eheim as > instructed > > by a fish store manager and this is what seems to have caused the > > backdrafting. As soon as I removed the carbon the filter stopped > doing > > this. But I could tell it was serious and obviously it was > because the > > two fish have died, I may lose more. I don't know why the store > didn't > > tell me there is a carbon filter for the Eheim! > > Now I find this out too late - but shoving a bag of GAcarbon into > the > > filter was not a good idea. I followed exact instructions on how and > > where to place the bag, but somehow it must not have worked. > > > > Lainey > > http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com > > > > On Oct 19, 2009, at 8:05 AM, mattyobones wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, pam andress <pamandress23@...> > > > wrote: > > > > > > > I have Ehiems,Fluvals and Magnum canister and wet dry filters > and it > > > happens in all of them. I find more so in the Fluval 403, 404 and > > 405 > > > canisters because they have ribbed hoses that clog easier then > > smooth > > > hoses thus impeding the flo. They seem to hold on to the slime > > because > > > of the ridges in the hose so everytime I clean the filters I > > clean the > > > hoses. I learned the hard way after cleaning the filters and > not the > > > hoses. With the hoses being under water I could not see the filter > > > stopped working because the blockage in the hose blocked the > return > > > thus almost killing some of my Angels. > > > > > > > > > > > I have fluvals and they do this too. (black hoses). I just put a > > > net on the outflow just before starting and try to catch some > of it. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Pam > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > > > From: GoldLenny@... > > > > Date: Sun, 18 Oct 2009 20:57:19 -0500 > > > > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Eheim backdrafting > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > That's just some algae that was growing in the hose going > back to > > > the tank > > > > and when you started the filter back up, the sudden rush of > water > > > loosened > > > > some of it. > > > > > > > > This happens with my Rena Filstar canister filters also. > > > Something you can > > > > do is un-plug the filter for a few minutes, then restart it to > > > get this > > > > effect first... then do the gravel vacuuming to suck up most of > > > this algae. > > > > In my goldfish tank, the goldfish treat this like a smorgasbord > > > and go > > > > around eating it up as fast as they can. LOL > > > > > > > > I do remove the two hoses every year or so and pull a bottle > > > brush through > > > > them to give them a good cleaning but I do not know if this is > > even > > > > necessary unless the build-up started to impede water flow... > > > which it never > > > > has. > > > > > > > > Are your hoses clear, white, black or ??? The hoses on my Rena > > > Filstar's > > > > are kind of clear and I've read that black/dark hoses would > > > impede the algae > > > > growth. I've thought about getting some kind of covering for the > > > clear > > > > hoses but haven't done so yet since I do not consider it that > > > much of a > > > > problem. > > > > > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles > > > > referenced in above reply are listed on > > > the right > > > > side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by > > > Year, Month) > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On > > > > Behalf Of Lainey Alexander > > > > Sent: Sunday, October 18, 2009 7:17 PM > > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > > > Subject: [AquaticLife] Eheim backdrafting > > > > > > > > Hi Everyone - > > > > > > > > After cleaning my Eheim canister filter today I went to turn it > > > back on and > > > > it blew debris all over my tank. Why would this be happening? > > > > > > > > Thanks, > > > > > > > > Lainey > > > > http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 43963	From: Lainey Alexander	Date: 10/19/2009
Subject: Re: Eheim backdrafting

I am realizing that it may have been my dwarf puffer who killed the SAEs:( I am going to rehome the little tyrant on Wednesday... I'm sad, as I really love this guy. But in retrospect, I am almost certain that he has learned to do nighttime ambushing. He has recently matured and developed strong colors, and his gentleness is a thing of the past. Lainey http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com On Oct 19, 2009, at 4:40 PM, Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > I'm not sure that anything in your filter would have killed the SAE's > abruptly... unless it was small pieces of carbon and they ingested > that... > but you seem to have ruled that out. > > They should not be immediately bothered by any detritus... after > all, they > live in the same tank with their detritus and the water is flowing > through > the filter media, through their own detritus before returning to > the tank > (which is why it's important to clean the filter on a weekly basis > instead > of waiting months like some people do). > > Doing filter maintenance is important and necessary and should > NEVER cause > fish health problems... instead it should make things better for > the tank. > Whether you see this temporary burst of algae into the water or > not, it's > still in the tank's ecosystem since the water is flowing through it > constantly. If it's stuck to the inside of the filter hose or down > in the > gravel, it's all part of the ecosystem. I can assure you that there > is a > LOT more detritus down in the gravel than what you saw come out of > your > filter hose. It's just that you could see it for a little while after > restarting the canister that bothers you so just ignore this until it > settles down or gets sucked into the filter system again. > > I'm still not sure how/why the carbon package would be causing a > problem if > you rinsed it first... unless it was somehow clogging the intake of > the > filter system causing the dirty water to bypass the filter media. > > I tried to look at an owners manual for your model to see if I > could figure > out what was going wrong but could not find your model number. > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the > right > side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, > Month) > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On > Behalf Of Lainey Alexander > Sent: Monday, October 19, 2009 2:50 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: Eheim backdrafting > > So does it make sense that the backflow might have killed the SAEs? > > Not sure I can take a picture because I don't want to put the > carbon back in > and get myself into any more trouble/fatalities. I just won't do > this again. > > Testing ammonia and nitrates today they are both at zero. > > Lainey > http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com > > On Oct 19, 2009, at 3:27 PM, Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > > > You would have to take pictures showing us how you put the carbon > > packet in the filter. That would be a lot easier than trying to > > explain it... > > you > > know the saying about a picture is worth a thousand words... but it > > sure sounds like the carbon packet was causing bypass inside the > > filter canister itself. Some canister filters have a *safety system* > > built in so that if the filter media gets clogged up so much that > > water can no longer flow through it, it will bypass the filter media > > and go right back to the return hose. This supposedly protects the > > motor from overheating/burning up but it can also allow detritus > that > > was in the filter or that is sucked up into the intake to go right > > back out the return line. I know that is something that Rena > > advertises just the opposite... saying there is no way for water to > > bypass the filter media... but I've seen photos of other canister > > filters (not Eheim that I can remember) that do show the bypass > > outlets. > > Rena tries > > to say that those canister filters allow for dirty water to > bypass the > > filter media instead of getting filtered but I also understand why a > > company would have a bypass method. > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles > > referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, > alphabetically > > under Labels and also under Archives by Year, > > Month) > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Lainey Alexander > > Sent: Monday, October 19, 2009 10:44 AM > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: Eheim backdrafting > > > > It was packaged carbon and I washed it well, and the detritus was > not > > carbon it was little pieces of food and plants. The LFS guy is > saying > > I did the carbon bag correctly and he doesn't know why the SAEs > died. > > I will test all my water parameters today and see what's going > on. But > > the tank was positively littered with detritus, and it kept doing it > > each time I shut off the filter and restarted it. > > Normally after a filter cleaning I see a little backdrafting ONE > time, > > this kept on happening over and over like something was wrong. > > Oh well. > > > > Lainey > > http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com > > > > On Oct 19, 2009, at 11:33 AM, Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > > > > > Could this have been loose carbon pieces instead of detritus/ > > algae in > > > your hoses? Did you use a pre-packaged bag of carbon or make your > > own? > > > Did you > > > rinse the bag first, under your faucet, to rinse off smaller > pieces > > > and dust that would fit through the mesh bag holding the carbon? > > > > > > YOU DO NOT have to use manufacturers products for most canister > > > filters. > > > Other than the two blocks of sponge (smaller pore and larger > > pore) in > > > my Rena Filstar's, I do not think any thing else in either > > canister is > > > from Rena... even though they sell all of the various pre- > > packaged so- > > > called specialized fit filter mediums. > > > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles > > > referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, > > alphabetically > > > under Labels and also under Archives by Year, > > > Month) > > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Lainey Alexander > > > Sent: Monday, October 19, 2009 10:21 AM > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: Eheim backdrafting > > > > > > The backdrafting was pretty severe and now I see two Siamese algae > > > eaters have died. I think it was something more than routine hose > > > blockage. In order to be able to use my driftwood and prevent > tannin > > > staining, I tried to place a bag of carbon in the Eheim as > > instructed > > > by a fish store manager and this is what seems to have caused the > > > backdrafting. As soon as I removed the carbon the filter stopped > > doing > > > this. But I could tell it was serious and obviously it was > > because the > > > two fish have died, I may lose more. I don't know why the store > > didn't > > > tell me there is a carbon filter for the Eheim! > > > Now I find this out too late - but shoving a bag of GAcarbon into > > the > > > filter was not a good idea. I followed exact instructions on > how and > > > where to place the bag, but somehow it must not have worked. > > > > > > Lainey > > > http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com > > > > > > On Oct 19, 2009, at 8:05 AM, mattyobones wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, pam andress > <pamandress23@...> > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > I have Ehiems,Fluvals and Magnum canister and wet dry filters > > and it > > > > happens in all of them. I find more so in the Fluval 403, 404 > and > > > 405 > > > > canisters because they have ribbed hoses that clog easier then > > > smooth > > > > hoses thus impeding the flo. They seem to hold on to the slime > > > because > > > > of the ridges in the hose so everytime I clean the filters I > > > clean the > > > > hoses. I learned the hard way after cleaning the filters and > > not the > > > > hoses. With the hoses being under water I could not see the > filter > > > > stopped working because the blockage in the hose blocked the > > return > > > > thus almost killing some of my Angels. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I have fluvals and they do this too. (black hoses). I just > put a > > > > net on the outflow just before starting and try to catch some > > of it. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Pam > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > > > > From: GoldLenny@... > > > > > Date: Sun, 18 Oct 2009 20:57:19 -0500 > > > > > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Eheim backdrafting > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > That's just some algae that was growing in the hose going > > back to > > > > the tank > > > > > and when you started the filter back up, the sudden rush of > > water > > > > loosened > > > > > some of it. > > > > > > > > > > This happens with my Rena Filstar canister filters also. > > > > Something you can > > > > > do is un-plug the filter for a few minutes, then restart it to > > > > get this > > > > > effect first... then do the gravel vacuuming to suck up > most of > > > > this algae. > > > > > In my goldfish tank, the goldfish treat this like a > smorgasbord > > > > and go > > > > > around eating it up as fast as they can. LOL > > > > > > > > > > I do remove the two hoses every year or so and pull a bottle > > > > brush through > > > > > them to give them a good cleaning but I do not know if this is > > > even > > > > > necessary unless the build-up started to impede water flow... > > > > which it never > > > > > has. > > > > > > > > > > Are your hoses clear, white, black or ??? The hoses on my Rena > > > > Filstar's > > > > > are kind of clear and I've read that black/dark hoses would > > > > impede the algae > > > > > growth. I've thought about getting some kind of covering > for the > > > > clear > > > > > hoses but haven't done so yet since I do not consider it that > > > > much of a > > > > > problem. > > > > > > > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > > > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any > articles > > > > > referenced in above reply are listed on > > > > the right > > > > > side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by > > > > Year, Month) > > > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > > > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On > > > > > Behalf Of Lainey Alexander > > > > > Sent: Sunday, October 18, 2009 7:17 PM > > > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > > > > Subject: [AquaticLife] Eheim backdrafting > > > > > > > > > > Hi Everyone - > > > > > > > > > > After cleaning my Eheim canister filter today I went to > turn it > > > > back on and > > > > > it blew debris all over my tank. Why would this be happening? > > > > > > > > > > Thanks, > > > > > > > > > > Lainey > > > > > http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 43964	From: Donna Ransome	Date: 10/19/2009
Subject: Re: Eheim backdrafting

It doesn’t make sense to me that the filter spewed plants and how that could be related to how media was installed. Where did the plants come from? Agree I would not suspect the filter in the SAE deaths, puffers are always suspect, LOL. _____ From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Lainey Alexander Sent: Monday, October 19, 2009 5:50 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: Eheim backdrafting I am realizing that it may have been my dwarf puffer who killed the SAEs:( I am going to rehome the little tyrant on Wednesday... I'm sad, as I really love this guy. But in retrospect, I am almost certain that he has learned to do nighttime ambushing. He has recently matured and developed strong colors, and his gentleness is a thing of the past. Lainey http://www.grasslan <http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com> dsgouldians.com On Oct 19, 2009, at 4:40 PM, Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > I'm not sure that anything in your filter would have killed the SAE's > abruptly... unless it was small pieces of carbon and they ingested > that... > but you seem to have ruled that out. > > They should not be immediately bothered by any detritus... after > all, they > live in the same tank with their detritus and the water is flowing > through > the filter media, through their own detritus before returning to > the tank > (which is why it's important to clean the filter on a weekly basis > instead > of waiting months like some people do). > > Doing filter maintenance is important and necessary and should > NEVER cause > fish health problems... instead it should make things better for > the tank. > Whether you see this temporary burst of algae into the water or > not, it's > still in the tank's ecosystem since the water is flowing through it > constantly. If it's stuck to the inside of the filter hose or down > in the > gravel, it's all part of the ecosystem. I can assure you that there > is a > LOT more detritus down in the gravel than what you saw come out of > your > filter hose. It's just that you could see it for a little while after > restarting the canister that bothers you so just ignore this until it > settles down or gets sucked into the filter system again. > > I'm still not sure how/why the carbon package would be causing a > problem if > you rinsed it first... unless it was somehow clogging the intake of > the > filter system causing the dirty water to bypass the filter media. > > I tried to look at an owners manual for your model to see if I > could figure > out what was going wrong but could not find your model number. > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> blogspot.com > (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the > right > side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, > Month) > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com > [mailto:AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com] On > Behalf Of Lainey Alexander > Sent: Monday, October 19, 2009 2:50 PM > To: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: Eheim backdrafting > > So does it make sense that the backflow might have killed the SAEs? > > Not sure I can take a picture because I don't want to put the > carbon back in > and get myself into any more trouble/fatalities. I just won't do > this again. > > Testing ammonia and nitrates today they are both at zero. > > Lainey > http://www.grasslan <http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com> dsgouldians.com > > On Oct 19, 2009, at 3:27 PM, Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > > > You would have to take pictures showing us how you put the carbon > > packet in the filter. That would be a lot easier than trying to > > explain it... > > you > > know the saying about a picture is worth a thousand words... but it > > sure sounds like the carbon packet was causing bypass inside the > > filter canister itself. Some canister filters have a *safety system* > > built in so that if the filter media gets clogged up so much that > > water can no longer flow through it, it will bypass the filter media > > and go right back to the return hose. This supposedly protects the > > motor from overheating/burning up but it can also allow detritus > that > > was in the filter or that is sucked up into the intake to go right > > back out the return line. I know that is something that Rena > > advertises just the opposite... saying there is no way for water to > > bypass the filter media... but I've seen photos of other canister > > filters (not Eheim that I can remember) that do show the bypass > > outlets. > > Rena tries > > to say that those canister filters allow for dirty water to > bypass the > > filter media instead of getting filtered but I also understand why a > > company would have a bypass method. > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> blogspot.com (Links to any articles > > referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, > alphabetically > > under Labels and also under Archives by Year, > > Month) > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com > > [mailto:AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Lainey Alexander > > Sent: Monday, October 19, 2009 10:44 AM > > To: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: Eheim backdrafting > > > > It was packaged carbon and I washed it well, and the detritus was > not > > carbon it was little pieces of food and plants. The LFS guy is > saying > > I did the carbon bag correctly and he doesn't know why the SAEs > died. > > I will test all my water parameters today and see what's going > on. But > > the tank was positively littered with detritus, and it kept doing it > > each time I shut off the filter and restarted it. > > Normally after a filter cleaning I see a little backdrafting ONE > time, > > this kept on happening over and over like something was wrong. > > Oh well. > > > > Lainey > > http://www.grasslan <http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com> dsgouldians.com > > > > On Oct 19, 2009, at 11:33 AM, Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > > > > > Could this have been loose carbon pieces instead of detritus/ > > algae in > > > your hoses? Did you use a pre-packaged bag of carbon or make your > > own? > > > Did you > > > rinse the bag first, under your faucet, to rinse off smaller > pieces > > > and dust that would fit through the mesh bag holding the carbon? > > > > > > YOU DO NOT have to use manufacturers products for most canister > > > filters. > > > Other than the two blocks of sponge (smaller pore and larger > > pore) in > > > my Rena Filstar's, I do not think any thing else in either > > canister is > > > from Rena... even though they sell all of the various pre- > > packaged so- > > > called specialized fit filter mediums. > > > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> blogspot.com (Links to any articles > > > referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, > > alphabetically > > > under Labels and also under Archives by Year, > > > Month) > > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > From: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com > > > [mailto:AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Lainey Alexander > > > Sent: Monday, October 19, 2009 10:21 AM > > > To: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com > > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: Eheim backdrafting > > > > > > The backdrafting was pretty severe and now I see two Siamese algae > > > eaters have died. I think it was something more than routine hose > > > blockage. In order to be able to use my driftwood and prevent > tannin > > > staining, I tried to place a bag of carbon in the Eheim as > > instructed > > > by a fish store manager and this is what seems to have caused the > > > backdrafting. As soon as I removed the carbon the filter stopped > > doing > > > this. But I could tell it was serious and obviously it was > > because the > > > two fish have died, I may lose more. I don't know why the store > > didn't > > > tell me there is a carbon filter for the Eheim! > > > Now I find this out too late - but shoving a bag of GAcarbon into > > the > > > filter was not a good idea. I followed exact instructions on > how and > > > where to place the bag, but somehow it must not have worked. > > > > > > Lainey > > > http://www.grasslan <http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com> dsgouldians.com > > > > > > On Oct 19, 2009, at 8:05 AM, mattyobones wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > --- In AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com, pam andress > <pamandress23@...> > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > I have Ehiems,Fluvals and Magnum canister and wet dry filters > > and it > > > > happens in all of them. I find more so in the Fluval 403, 404 > and > > > 405 > > > > canisters because they have ribbed hoses that clog easier then > > > smooth > > > > hoses thus impeding the flo. They seem to hold on to the slime > > > because > > > > of the ridges in the hose so everytime I clean the filters I > > > clean the > > > > hoses. I learned the hard way after cleaning the filters and > > not the > > > > hoses. With the hoses being under water I could not see the > filter > > > > stopped working because the blockage in the hose blocked the > > return > > > > thus almost killing some of my Angels. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I have fluvals and they do this too. (black hoses). I just > put a > > > > net on the outflow just before starting and try to catch some > > of it. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Pam > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > To: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com > > > > > From: GoldLenny@... > > > > > Date: Sun, 18 Oct 2009 20:57:19 -0500 > > > > > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Eheim backdrafting > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > That's just some algae that was growing in the hose going > > back to > > > > the tank > > > > > and when you started the filter back up, the sudden rush of > > water > > > > loosened > > > > > some of it. > > > > > > > > > > This happens with my Rena Filstar canister filters also. > > > > Something you can > > > > > do is un-plug the filter for a few minutes, then restart it to > > > > get this > > > > > effect first... then do the gravel vacuuming to suck up > most of > > > > this algae. > > > > > In my goldfish tank, the goldfish treat this like a > smorgasbord > > > > and go > > > > > around eating it up as fast as they can. LOL > > > > > > > > > > I do remove the two hoses every year or so and pull a bottle > > > > brush through > > > > > them to give them a good cleaning but I do not know if this is > > > even > > > > > necessary unless the build-up started to impede water flow... > > > > which it never > > > > > has. > > > > > > > > > > Are your hoses clear, white, black or ??? The hoses on my Rena > > > > Filstar's > > > > > are kind of clear and I've read that black/dark hoses would > > > > impede the algae > > > > > growth. I've thought about getting some kind of covering > for the > > > > clear > > > > > hoses but haven't done so yet since I do not consider it that > > > > much of a > > > > > problem. > > > > > > > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > > > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> blogspot.com (Links to any > articles > > > > > referenced in above reply are listed on > > > > the right > > > > > side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by > > > > Year, Month) > > > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > > > From: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com > > > > [mailto:AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com] On > > > > > Behalf Of Lainey Alexander > > > > > Sent: Sunday, October 18, 2009 7:17 PM > > > > > To: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com > > > > > Subject: [AquaticLife] Eheim backdrafting > > > > > > > > > > Hi Everyone - > > > > > > > > > > After cleaning my Eheim canister filter today I went to > turn it > > > > back on and > > > > > it blew debris all over my tank. Why would this be happening? > > > > > > > > > > Thanks, > > > > > > > > > > Lainey > > > > > http://www.grasslan <http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com> dsgouldians.com > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 43965	From: Lainey Alexander	Date: 10/20/2009
Subject: O2 from plants

My plants are producing a great number of oxygen bubbles that are carpeting the tank surface. Is this good, or is it a sign that something is going wrong? Thanks, Lainey http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 43966	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 10/20/2009
Subject: Re: O2 from plants

Do you mean bubbles floating on the surface of the water... or on the surface of the leaves? If on the leaves, this is called *pearling* and usually means things are going very good for that plant. You can do a Google Image search for 'plants pearling' to see images of this. If it's bubbles/foam on the surface of the water, that could be from too many DOC's (dissolved organic compounds) or too much protein waste (also a DOC) in the water. If the plants are pearling to such a degree that the bubbles are floating from the leaves to the surface, they should just pop at the surface unless you have a protein/oil layer on the surface... which would then go back to the DOC's/protein issue. My plants pearl on a regular basis but I've never seen them putting out bubbles so fast that they go to the surface and float around. This person comes to the conclusion that his plants pearl a lot more after doing a PWC due to the increase of macro-nutrients added to the water from the tap water. http://www.plantedtank.net/forums/plants/42918-plant-pearling-revisited.html Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Lainey Alexander Sent: Tuesday, October 20, 2009 9:13 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] O2 from plants My plants are producing a great number of oxygen bubbles that are carpeting the tank surface. Is this good, or is it a sign that something is going wrong? Thanks, Lainey http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 43967	From: Lainey Alexander	Date: 10/20/2009
Subject: Re: O2 from plants

...well, here I go again with my embarrassing goofups - the plants are most definitely pearling, which is good, OK. But they are coating the surface and not popping because...I have been reaching into the tank after applying shea butter to my hands which is a natural tree butter moisturizer. I am now realizing the shea butter is coating the surface. I always wear this stuff all winter, it's all natural and non-tox, but still, I obviously can't do this. Thanks, Lenny... Lainey http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com On Oct 20, 2009, at 11:06 PM, Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > Do you mean bubbles floating on the surface of the water... or on the > surface of the leaves? > > If on the leaves, this is called *pearling* and usually means > things are > going very good for that plant. You can do a Google Image search for > 'plants pearling' to see images of this. > > If it's bubbles/foam on the surface of the water, that could be > from too > many DOC's (dissolved organic compounds) or too much protein waste > (also a > DOC) in the water. > > If the plants are pearling to such a degree that the bubbles are > floating > from the leaves to the surface, they should just pop at the surface > unless > you have a protein/oil layer on the surface... which would then go > back to > the DOC's/protein issue. > > My plants pearl on a regular basis but I've never seen them putting > out > bubbles so fast that they go to the surface and float around. > > This person comes to the conclusion that his plants pearl a lot > more after > doing a PWC due to the increase of macro-nutrients added to the > water from > the tap water. > http://www.plantedtank.net/forums/plants/42918-plant-pearling- > revisited.html > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the > right > side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, > Month) > > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On > Behalf Of Lainey Alexander > Sent: Tuesday, October 20, 2009 9:13 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Subject: [AquaticLife] O2 from plants > > My plants are producing a great number of oxygen bubbles that are > carpeting > the tank surface. Is this good, or is it a sign that something is > going > wrong? > > Thanks, > > Lainey > http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 43968	From: Rev. Eric Roberts	Date: 10/20/2009
Subject: Re: O2 from plants

On the bright side, your fish will have healthy soft scales , Hehehehe One of the things I also do is a good hand wash with soap and water up to my elbows before I go poking around my tank. It removes any oils from your skin or lotions you may be applying as well as other chemicals that may be on your skin. Eric From: Lainey Alexander Sent: Tuesday, October 20, 2009 10:36 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] O2 from plants ...well, here I go again with my embarrassing goofups - the plants are most definitely pearling, which is good, OK. But they are coating the surface and not popping because...I have been reaching into the tank after applying shea butter to my hands which is a natural tree butter moisturizer. I am now realizing the shea butter is coating the surface. I always wear this stuff all winter, it's all natural and non-tox, but still, I obviously can't do this. Thanks, Lenny... Lainey http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com On Oct 20, 2009, at 11:06 PM, Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > Do you mean bubbles floating on the surface of the water... or on the > surface of the leaves? > > If on the leaves, this is called *pearling* and usually means > things are > going very good for that plant. You can do a Google Image search for > 'plants pearling' to see images of this. > > If it's bubbles/foam on the surface of the water, that could be > from too > many DOC's (dissolved organic compounds) or too much protein waste > (also a > DOC) in the water. > > If the plants are pearling to such a degree that the bubbles are > floating > from the leaves to the surface, they should just pop at the surface > unless > you have a protein/oil layer on the surface... which would then go > back to > the DOC's/protein issue. > > My plants pearl on a regular basis but I've never seen them putting > out > bubbles so fast that they go to the surface and float around. > > This person comes to the conclusion that his plants pearl a lot > more after > doing a PWC due to the increase of macro-nutrients added to the > water from > the tap water. > http://www.plantedtank.net/forums/plants/42918-plant-pearling- > revisited.html > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the > right > side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, > Month) > > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On > Behalf Of Lainey Alexander > Sent: Tuesday, October 20, 2009 9:13 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Subject: [AquaticLife] O2 from plants > > My plants are producing a great number of oxygen bubbles that are > carpeting > the tank surface. Is this good, or is it a sign that something is > going > wrong? > > Thanks, > > Lainey > http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 43969	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 10/20/2009
Subject: Re: O2 from plants

Time for some more fresh carbon in your filter. Also, using plain white or preferably *natural* paper towels and lay them on the surface of the water and lift up immediately into a container to keep them from dripping back into the tank very much, will remove most of this oil sheen on the surface of the water. YOU DO NOT want this oil in your tank at all as it will eventually dissolve into the water or some part of it will contaminate the water... which is the reason for adding fresh carbon. Also, as the Rev. says, wash your hands/arms BEFORE and AFTER fooling with your fish tanks. I usually just wash mine under hot water, which will rinse away the skin oils without the chance of leaving soap residue on your skin. Anything that doesn't come off your skin after washing them under hot water... should not come off your skin in the tank... but if one does use various oils/butters/lotions on their hands/arms, then they should scrub up good and rinse well. The most cautious of fish keepers use shoulder length gloves that are sold for this purpose. They sell them as reusable or disposable types... if you do not want to keep washing away your shea butter skin stuff (BTW... "stuff" is a scientific term for what us guys call all the "stuff" you ladies use on your face and skin. LOL) On a side note, George Carlin also did a routine about "stuff". LOL http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MvgN5gCuLac Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Lainey Alexander Sent: Tuesday, October 20, 2009 10:36 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] O2 from plants ...well, here I go again with my embarrassing goofups - the plants are most definitely pearling, which is good, OK. But they are coating the surface and not popping because...I have been reaching into the tank after applying shea butter to my hands which is a natural tree butter moisturizer. I am now realizing the shea butter is coating the surface. I always wear this stuff all winter, it's all natural and non-tox, but still, I obviously can't do this. Thanks, Lenny... Lainey http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com On Oct 20, 2009, at 11:06 PM, Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > Do you mean bubbles floating on the surface of the water... or on the > surface of the leaves? > > If on the leaves, this is called *pearling* and usually means things > are going very good for that plant. You can do a Google Image search > for 'plants pearling' to see images of this. > > If it's bubbles/foam on the surface of the water, that could be from > too many DOC's (dissolved organic compounds) or too much protein waste > (also a > DOC) in the water. > > If the plants are pearling to such a degree that the bubbles are > floating from the leaves to the surface, they should just pop at the > surface unless you have a protein/oil layer on the surface... which > would then go back to the DOC's/protein issue. > > My plants pearl on a regular basis but I've never seen them putting > out bubbles so fast that they go to the surface and float around. > > This person comes to the conclusion that his plants pearl a lot more > after doing a PWC due to the increase of macro-nutrients added to the > water from the tap water. > http://www.plantedtank.net/forums/plants/42918-plant-pearling-revisited.html > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles > referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically > under Labels and also under Archives by Year, > Month) > > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Lainey Alexander > Sent: Tuesday, October 20, 2009 9:13 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Subject: [AquaticLife] O2 from plants > > My plants are producing a great number of oxygen bubbles that are > carpeting the tank surface. Is this good, or is it a sign that > something is going wrong? > > Thanks, > > Lainey > http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] ------------------------------------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the home page. Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com to receive the digest, which includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com for the No E-Mail option where you will still be able to read messages on the group and post replies. Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com to receive individual e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 43970	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 10/21/2009
Subject: Re: O2 from plants

I have not tried the disposable types of gloves that go all the way to the armpit, but I have a set that's reusable that came with the 125 gallon tank, they are not convenient to use at all. Not only are the gloves very thick and too big (I can't see or feel what I'm doing in the tank), but they also won't fit over my upper arms from all the lifting I do at work (my muscles are just too big for the darn things). So unless the disposable ones are better I don't recommend the reusable ones at all ;) LOL. I just wash my arms as high up as I can get and rinse really well, then I pray I don't get my sleeves wet when I have my arm in the 125 gallon tank ;) Also on that note, I don't think I could ever own a fish tank bigger than 125 gallons, I may have to climb inside of it to clean it, LOL. Amber Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > > > Time for some more fresh carbon in your filter. > > Also, using plain white or preferably *natural* paper towels and lay > them on > the surface of the water and lift up immediately into a container to keep > them from dripping back into the tank very much, will remove most of this > oil sheen on the surface of the water. YOU DO NOT want this oil in your > tank at all as it will eventually dissolve into the water or some part > of it > will contaminate the water... which is the reason for adding fresh carbon. > > Also, as the Rev. says, wash your hands/arms BEFORE and AFTER fooling with > your fish tanks. I usually just wash mine under hot water, which will > rinse > away the skin oils without the chance of leaving soap residue on your > skin. > Anything that doesn't come off your skin after washing them under hot > water... should not come off your skin in the tank... but if one does use > various oils/butters/lotions on their hands/arms, then they should > scrub up > good and rinse well. The most cautious of fish keepers use shoulder length > gloves that are sold for this purpose. They sell them as reusable or > disposable types... if you do not want to keep washing away your shea > butter > skin stuff (BTW... "stuff" is a scientific term for what us guys call all > the "stuff" you ladies use on your face and skin. LOL) > > On a side note, George Carlin also did a routine about "stuff". LOL > http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MvgN5gCuLac > <http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MvgN5gCuLac> > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right > side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On > Behalf Of Lainey Alexander > Sent: Tuesday, October 20, 2009 10:36 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] O2 from plants > > ...well, here I go again with my embarrassing goofups - the plants are > most > definitely pearling, which is good, OK. But they are coating the > surface and > not popping because...I have been reaching into the tank after > applying shea > butter to my hands which is a natural tree butter moisturizer. I am now > realizing the shea butter is coating the surface. I always wear this stuff > all winter, it's all natural and non-tox, but still, I obviously can't do > this. > > Thanks, Lenny... > > Lainey > http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com <http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com> > > On Oct 20, 2009, at 11:06 PM, Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > > > Do you mean bubbles floating on the surface of the water... or on the > > surface of the leaves? > > > > If on the leaves, this is called *pearling* and usually means things > > are going very good for that plant. You can do a Google Image search > > for 'plants pearling' to see images of this. > > > > If it's bubbles/foam on the surface of the water, that could be from > > too many DOC's (dissolved organic compounds) or too much protein waste > > (also a > > DOC) in the water. > > > > If the plants are pearling to such a degree that the bubbles are > > floating from the leaves to the surface, they should just pop at the > > surface unless you have a protein/oil layer on the surface... which > > would then go back to the DOC's/protein issue. > > > > My plants pearl on a regular basis but I've never seen them putting > > out bubbles so fast that they go to the surface and float around. > > > > This person comes to the conclusion that his plants pearl a lot more > > after doing a PWC due to the increase of macro-nutrients added to the > > water from the tap water. > > > http://www.plantedtank.net/forums/plants/42918-plant-pearling-revisited.html > <http://www.plantedtank.net/forums/plants/42918-plant-pearling-revisited.html> > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> (Links to any articles > > referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically > > under Labels and also under Archives by Year, > > Month) > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On Behalf Of Lainey Alexander > > Sent: Tuesday, October 20, 2009 9:13 PM > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > Subject: [AquaticLife] O2 from plants > > > > My plants are producing a great number of oxygen bubbles that are > > carpeting the tank surface. Is this good, or is it a sign that > > something is going wrong? > > > > Thanks, > > > > Lainey > > http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com <http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com> > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > ------------------------------------ > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. > ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> > PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to > the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the > SUBJECT > LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- > <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. > > If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of unsubscribing, you > can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the > home page. > > Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:aquaticlife-digest%40yahoogroups.com> to receive the digest, which > includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email > > Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:aquaticlife-nomail%40yahoogroups.com> for the No E-Mail option > where > you will still be able to read messages on the group and post replies. > > Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:aquaticlife-normal%40yahoogroups.com> to receive individual > e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 43971	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 10/22/2009
Subject: Getting rid of pest snails

Okay I want to try a bit harder to get rid of some of my pest snails as they are trying to outpopulate my mystery snails ;) Is there a type of lettuce that's better at the bait and pull method of getting rid of snails? Or can I just use something like a jar with some food inside of it and pull that out in the morning? Amber

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 43972	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 10/22/2009
Subject: Re: Getting rid of pest snails

Do you have any baby Mystery Snails in the tank(s)? They might also get caught by any trap that uses a funnel type entrance to limit the size of critter that can get in. If you are going to use a funnel trap (or a jar with a certain sized hole poked into the top), you could just put an algae thin/pellet inside it. It will dissolve but not completely disintegrate like other fish foods might. The smell from the algae thin/pellet would attract the snails faster than a piece of lettuce, IMO. If you have fry, they might also be able to get into any hole you make for small snails but at least with fry, you can lift the jar up near the surface, turn it upright, open it and let the fry swim free while keeping the dissolved food and snails inside. If you do use lettuce, use a piece of leaf from Romaine or some other darker green lettuce instead of Iceberg. Iceberg is almost 100% water and has little taste/smell (or nutritional value) to it so it will not really attract critters. The dark green section of Romaine or other lettuces have a taste and smell to them. If you do not use/eat leaves on a regular basis, just ask your produce department employee if you have a leaf and you could even let them know why. They'll probably like the reason. Since a whole head is relatively cheap, there should be no cost for a single leaf anyhow. They probably have leaves in the back that they pulled off that morning before putting the lettuce out on display. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Amber Berglund Sent: Thursday, October 22, 2009 10:34 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Getting rid of pest snails Okay I want to try a bit harder to get rid of some of my pest snails as they are trying to outpopulate my mystery snails ;) Is there a type of lettuce that's better at the bait and pull method of getting rid of snails? Or can I just use something like a jar with some food inside of it and pull that out in the morning? Amber

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 43973	From: Miquela D	Date: 10/22/2009
Subject: Re: Getting rid of pest snails

I wish i lived closer to you. i would so take a handful off out of your tank. but I'm in Iowa. :( and i wouldn't know a thing about shipping live snails/fish. XoXo Miquela D. XoXo Dragon Roses Consulting --- On Thu, 10/22/09, Amber Berglund <arberglund@...> wrote: From: Amber Berglund <arberglund@...> Subject: [AquaticLife] Getting rid of pest snails To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Date: Thursday, October 22, 2009, 10:33 AM   Okay I want to try a bit harder to get rid of some of my pest snails as they are trying to outpopulate my mystery snails ;) Is there a type of lettuce that's better at the bait and pull method of getting rid of snails? Or can I just use something like a jar with some food inside of it and pull that out in the morning? Amber [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 43974	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 10/22/2009
Subject: Re: Getting rid of pest snails

I have both baby mystery snails and guppy fry in the tank, but the new egg batch has not yet hatched on the mystery snails so the babies I have are about half an inch in diameter now, so not quite "babies" anymore. I also wouldn't feel terrible if I accidentally nabbed some really small mystery snails as I have plenty, LOL. When you look in the tank you see snails and guppies, LOL. Amber Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > > > Do you have any baby Mystery Snails in the tank(s)? They might also get > caught by any trap that uses a funnel type entrance to limit the size of > critter that can get in. > > If you are going to use a funnel trap (or a jar with a certain sized hole > poked into the top), you could just put an algae thin/pellet inside it. It > will dissolve but not completely disintegrate like other fish foods might. > The smell from the algae thin/pellet would attract the snails faster > than a > piece of lettuce, IMO. If you have fry, they might also be able to get > into > any hole you make for small snails but at least with fry, you can lift the > jar up near the surface, turn it upright, open it and let the fry swim > free > while keeping the dissolved food and snails inside. > > If you do use lettuce, use a piece of leaf from Romaine or some other > darker > green lettuce instead of Iceberg. Iceberg is almost 100% water and has > little taste/smell (or nutritional value) to it so it will not really > attract critters. The dark green section of Romaine or other lettuces have > a taste and smell to them. If you do not use/eat leaves on a regular > basis, > just ask your produce department employee if you have a leaf and you could > even let them know why. They'll probably like the reason. Since a whole > head is relatively cheap, there should be no cost for a single leaf > anyhow. > They probably have leaves in the back that they pulled off that morning > before putting the lettuce out on display. > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right > side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On > Behalf Of Amber Berglund > Sent: Thursday, October 22, 2009 10:34 AM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Subject: [AquaticLife] Getting rid of pest snails > > Okay I want to try a bit harder to get rid of some of my pest snails > as they > are trying to outpopulate my mystery snails ;) Is there a type of lettuce > that's better at the bait and pull method of getting rid of snails? Or > can I > just use something like a jar with some food inside of it and pull > that out > in the morning? > > Amber > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 43975	From: Lainey Alexander	Date: 10/22/2009
Subject: Potted plants

Can someone explain to me what to do with potted plants that have green foam embedded in the roots? I don't want to use the pots and I am trying to extricate the roots on some potted hairgrass, but to no avail. The foam is completely embedded. I know they say this foam is safe for fish, but I don't like the looks of it... Thanks, Lainey http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 43976	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 10/22/2009
Subject: Re: Potted plants

I carefully pull it off a little at a time (and by the way it's called rockwool, LOL), it takes a bit of time but if you're patient you can slowly peel it away from the roots, but be careful with the fragile plants as you can easily break their roots. Amber Lainey Alexander wrote: > > > Can someone explain to me what to do with potted plants that have > green foam embedded in the roots? I don't want to use the pots and I > am trying to extricate the roots on some potted hairgrass, but to no > avail. The foam is completely embedded. I know they say this foam is > safe for fish, but I don't like the looks of it... > > Thanks, > > Lainey > http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com <http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com> > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 43977	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 10/23/2009
Subject: Pet Source USA Blog - Tropical Fish and Aquariums

This seems to be more a collection of random thoughts, more than anything else, and it does not appear that it was proof read. However, it does bring up a number of interesting points ripe for discussion. http://www.petsourceusa.com/Blog/tropical-fish-and-aquariums.html http://tinyurl.com/ylrortn \\Steve//

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 43978	From: bill 1433	Date: 10/23/2009
Subject: Re: Pet Source USA Blog - Tropical Fish and Aquariums

Hi \\Steve// You're right, BUT do you really want to open a can of "worms" this large? Reading through, as you mention, there are a number of points, any of which would bring a slight avalanche of email to group! <g> Bill --- On Fri, 10/23/09, Steve Szabo <steve@...> wrote: > From: Steve Szabo <steve@...> > Subject: [AquaticLife] Pet Source USA Blog - Tropical Fish and Aquariums > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Date: Friday, October 23, 2009, 6:32 AM > This seems to be more a collection of > random thoughts, more than anything > else, and it does not appear that it was proof read. > However, it does bring > up a number of interesting points ripe for discussion. > > http://www.petsourceusa.com/Blog/tropical-fish-and-aquariums.html > http://tinyurl.com/ylrortn > > \\Steve// > > > > > > ------------------------------------ > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when > replying, Thank You. > ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> > ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> > PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is > NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of > the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new > subject (was re: old subject)" <- > <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. > , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. > > If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of > unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by > clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the home page.  > > Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com > to receive the digest, which includes up to 25 posts at a > time in a single email > > Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com > for the No E-Mail option where you will still be able to > read messages on the group and post replies. > > Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com > to receive individual e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links > > >     mailto:AquaticLife-fullfeatured@yahoogroups.com > > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 43979	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 10/23/2009
Subject: Re: Pet Source USA Blog - Tropical Fish and Aquariums

I left a reply for the poster, I wasn't very happy that they were saying you can keep several goldfish in a 15 gallon tank... How stupid. Not to mention all the typos, someone should learn to proof read their paper before they submit it for people to read, especially if they want people to take them seriously ;) LOL Amber Steve Szabo wrote: > > > This seems to be more a collection of random thoughts, more than anything > else, and it does not appear that it was proof read. However, it does > bring > up a number of interesting points ripe for discussion. > > http://www.petsourceusa.com/Blog/tropical-fish-and-aquariums.html > <http://www.petsourceusa.com/Blog/tropical-fish-and-aquariums.html> > http://tinyurl.com/ylrortn <http://tinyurl.com/ylrortn> > > \\Steve// > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 43980	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 10/23/2009
Subject: Re: Getting rid of pest snails

Also I was going to use a small chunk of the jello food I feed my fish, that attracts the snails better than anything else I feed the fish ;) Might also attract some fish, but fish should be easy to get out of the container. Thanks Lenny, Amber Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > > > Do you have any baby Mystery Snails in the tank(s)? They might also get > caught by any trap that uses a funnel type entrance to limit the size of > critter that can get in. > > If you are going to use a funnel trap (or a jar with a certain sized hole > poked into the top), you could just put an algae thin/pellet inside it. It > will dissolve but not completely disintegrate like other fish foods might. > The smell from the algae thin/pellet would attract the snails faster > than a > piece of lettuce, IMO. If you have fry, they might also be able to get > into > any hole you make for small snails but at least with fry, you can lift the > jar up near the surface, turn it upright, open it and let the fry swim > free > while keeping the dissolved food and snails inside. > > If you do use lettuce, use a piece of leaf from Romaine or some other > darker > green lettuce instead of Iceberg. Iceberg is almost 100% water and has > little taste/smell (or nutritional value) to it so it will not really > attract critters. The dark green section of Romaine or other lettuces have > a taste and smell to them. If you do not use/eat leaves on a regular > basis, > just ask your produce department employee if you have a leaf and you could > even let them know why. They'll probably like the reason. Since a whole > head is relatively cheap, there should be no cost for a single leaf > anyhow. > They probably have leaves in the back that they pulled off that morning > before putting the lettuce out on display. > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right > side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On > Behalf Of Amber Berglund > Sent: Thursday, October 22, 2009 10:34 AM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Subject: [AquaticLife] Getting rid of pest snails > > Okay I want to try a bit harder to get rid of some of my pest snails > as they > are trying to outpopulate my mystery snails ;) Is there a type of lettuce > that's better at the bait and pull method of getting rid of snails? Or > can I > just use something like a jar with some food inside of it and pull > that out > in the morning? > > Amber > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 43981	From: Lainey Alexander	Date: 10/23/2009
Subject: Danios spawning

Hi Everyone - I think my celestial pearl danios are spawning in my dwarf swords:) Males and females are going in there and doing things that must be spawning. Since CPDs (aka galaxy rasboras) are so small, at one inch, how will I ever be able to see eggs/fry? Should I not even try to see them, and instead maybe move the CPDs to a 10g to spawn there? Or will I notice some fry and be able to rescue them later even though they will be almost microscopic? I have gobs of plants now, so cover would not be an issue, but I still have my dwarf puffer (I don't think he killed any adult fish after all so he is getting to stay for now) and my bloodthirsty pair of blue rams. Thank you! Lainey http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 43982	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 10/23/2009
Subject: Re: Danios spawning

Since you have a lot of plants and floating plants, plenty (or some) of the fry should survive, if they indeed did spawn. Newborn fry instinctively know to stay hidden in plants as part of basic Darwinism (survival of the fittest). Since you are overstocked right now, you really cannot afford to add too much more of a bioload. If you have an empty tank right now, it should probably be used for splitting up some of your fish. Now, if you wanted to turn the 10G tank into a species only tank, that might be a good idea for the CPD's and it would take some of the bioload off of your main tank. Just use at least 70% of water from their current tank to mostly fill up the 10G tank and then you can move the plants, fish, etc. and then top it off. You also need to add protection to your filter intakes to keep baby fish from getting sucked in if they get too close. They sell round sponge sleeves that fit over intakes or you can make your own if you have sponge blocks for other purposes (like crafts). The easiest way to cut sponge blocks into proper sized pieces is the soak them in water first and freeze them. Then you can easily drill out a proper sized hole and cut a square into a hex shape by cutting off the corners, then rinse the sponge to remove the ice and any sponge particles and voila'... instant shape that you need. As a species only tank and if you want to start breeding them, you would want to add some new CPD's every year (maybe swap some of your adults with someone else or your LFS) to keep inbreeding from becoming too much of a problem. Your LFS might even be willing to buy some of your newborns, if you are successful. Usually, they will pay around 50% of their retail price to you in store credit (for example, if they sell them for $1.00 each, they would give you 50 cents each in store credit). Make sure you read up a lot more on breeding/raising fry so you will have the necessary foods handy, etc. Otherwise, you can just go with the Darwinism method and let nature take it's course... which also helps to cull the weaker of the fry so you do not have to cull them yourself. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Lainey Alexander Sent: Friday, October 23, 2009 10:54 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Danios spawning Hi Everyone - I think my celestial pearl danios are spawning in my dwarf swords:) Males and females are going in there and doing things that must be spawning. Since CPDs (aka galaxy rasboras) are so small, at one inch, how will I ever be able to see eggs/fry? Should I not even try to see them, and instead maybe move the CPDs to a 10g to spawn there? Or will I notice some fry and be able to rescue them later even though they will be almost microscopic? I have gobs of plants now, so cover would not be an issue, but I still have my dwarf puffer (I don't think he killed any adult fish after all so he is getting to stay for now) and my bloodthirsty pair of blue rams. Thank you! Lainey http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 43983	From: Lainey Alexander	Date: 10/23/2009
Subject: Re: Danios spawning

Hi Lenny - I already have the sponge to cover my 10g filter because I knew the CPDs might spawn. Also, I am upgrading to two bigger tanks: one 20g and one 65g - plus if anyone gets too huge I am going to trade them in to an excellent LFS in Greenwich CT. So I have my 10g available for fry etc if needed. I also have the Hikari fry food but will investigate what else I need for CPD fry... I will also be letting plenty of nature take its course. Lainey http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com On Oct 23, 2009, at 12:18 PM, Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > Since you have a lot of plants and floating plants, plenty (or > some) of the > fry should survive, if they indeed did spawn. Newborn fry > instinctively > know to stay hidden in plants as part of basic Darwinism (survival > of the > fittest). Since you are overstocked right now, you really cannot > afford to > add too much more of a bioload. If you have an empty tank right > now, it > should probably be used for splitting up some of your fish. > > Now, if you wanted to turn the 10G tank into a species only tank, > that might > be a good idea for the CPD's and it would take some of the bioload > off of > your main tank. Just use at least 70% of water from their current > tank to > mostly fill up the 10G tank and then you can move the plants, fish, > etc. and > then top it off. > > You also need to add protection to your filter intakes to keep baby > fish > from getting sucked in if they get too close. They sell round sponge > sleeves that fit over intakes or you can make your own if you have > sponge > blocks for other purposes (like crafts). The easiest way to cut sponge > blocks into proper sized pieces is the soak them in water first and > freeze > them. Then you can easily drill out a proper sized hole and cut a > square > into a hex shape by cutting off the corners, then rinse the sponge > to remove > the ice and any sponge particles and voila'... instant shape that > you need. > > As a species only tank and if you want to start breeding them, you > would > want to add some new CPD's every year (maybe swap some of your > adults with > someone else or your LFS) to keep inbreeding from becoming too much > of a > problem. Your LFS might even be willing to buy some of your > newborns, if > you are successful. Usually, they will pay around 50% of their > retail price > to you in store credit (for example, if they sell them for $1.00 > each, they > would give you 50 cents each in store credit). > > Make sure you read up a lot more on breeding/raising fry so you > will have > the necessary foods handy, etc. Otherwise, you can just go with the > Darwinism method and let nature take it's course... which also > helps to cull > the weaker of the fry so you do not have to cull them yourself. > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the > right > side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, > Month) > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On > Behalf Of Lainey Alexander > Sent: Friday, October 23, 2009 10:54 AM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Subject: [AquaticLife] Danios spawning > > Hi Everyone - > > I think my celestial pearl danios are spawning in my dwarf swords:) > Males > and females are going in there and doing things that must be > spawning. Since > CPDs (aka galaxy rasboras) are so small, at one inch, how will I > ever be > able to see eggs/fry? Should I not even try to see them, and > instead maybe > move the CPDs to a 10g to spawn there? Or will I notice some fry > and be able > to rescue them later even though they will be almost microscopic? I > have > gobs of plants now, so cover would not be an issue, but I still > have my > dwarf puffer (I don't think he killed any adult fish after all so > he is > getting to stay for > now) and my bloodthirsty pair of blue rams. > > Thank you! > > Lainey > http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 43984	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 10/23/2009
Subject: Re: Pet Source USA Blog - Tropical Fish and Aquariums

Like what? Or are you suggesting that we read it too? :-P On a security side note, that page caused IE8 to start using over 90% of my CPU cycles (per Task Manager) which normally means that my security programs are also being tasked by that link. I know you use Firefox so maybe the site has malware embedded in Active-x and/or Flash since I'm not sure if I had Flash toggled off with Toggle Flash. When the page finally loaded, there was a Windows Internet Explorer Script Error that says "Stop running this script? A script on this page is causing IE to run slowly. If it continues to run, your computer might become unresponsive" Of course, I clicked YES to stop the script, if it indeed was still running. I do not see any Flash content so it must have been scripts, possibly kiddie-scripts embedded in the page... but I did not have Flash turned off either so there's always a possibility that there was a hidden Flash attack embedded as well. I see what you mean about proof reading.. heck, they do not even have paragraphs. Maybe a bad copy/paste job that stripped the formatting??? Web Of Trust, http://www.mywot.com does not have this site rated yet. For those not familiar with Web Of Trust, they do have a download that will run on your computer all the time checking each site as you visit it but I do not use this *service*, instead, I check out pages manually by copy/pasting the URL into the Check... field at the top right of the MyWOT.com page... when I see an issue or my spidey-sense suggests I should check it out before visiting the site. WOT is pretty good and it's FREE, although they do have my own blog rated GREEN meaning it's OK but only has me at a score of 71 for trustworthiness... man, I thought I was at least 80% trustworthy. They have me at only 53 for Vendor Reliability which is strange since I do not sell anything and only a 41 for Child Safety... maybe because of my kind-of-new Jokes Page which has some PG rated jokes???? Who knows... or maybe my daughter reported me for using the paddle on her when she was a spoiled brat at times. LOL Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Steve Szabo Sent: Friday, October 23, 2009 5:32 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Pet Source USA Blog - Tropical Fish and Aquariums This seems to be more a collection of random thoughts, more than anything else, and it does not appear that it was proof read. However, it does bring up a number of interesting points ripe for discussion. http://www.petsourceusa.com/Blog/tropical-fish-and-aquariums.html http://tinyurl.com/ylrortn \\Steve//

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 43985	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 10/23/2009
Subject: Re: Getting rid of pest snails

Another thing you could do... since you have such a diverse community... is smoosh (just a little.. enough to break the shell) some of the nuisance snails on the glass of your tank prior to feeding time as many fish can be taught that snails are food and once they develop a taste for escargot, they'll start snacking on them and breaking the shell themselves with their *tooth* (yes, most, if not all fish that do not have normal teeth have at least one BIG tooth, called pharyngeal teeth http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pharyngeal_teeth, in the back of their mouth which is used for crushing pieces of food that might be considered too big/hard for normal consumption. Once some of the fish catch on that snails are food, they might start to keep things in check on their own... of course, this could also mean some of your Mystery Snail babies will become meals as well. And the broken snail shells, that are spit out, will continue to provide a source of calcium as the shells decay. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Amber Berglund Sent: Friday, October 23, 2009 10:13 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Getting rid of pest snails Also I was going to use a small chunk of the jello food I feed my fish, that attracts the snails better than anything else I feed the fish ;) Might also attract some fish, but fish should be easy to get out of the container. Thanks Lenny, Amber Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > > > Do you have any baby Mystery Snails in the tank(s)? They might also > get caught by any trap that uses a funnel type entrance to limit the > size of critter that can get in. > > If you are going to use a funnel trap (or a jar with a certain sized > hole poked into the top), you could just put an algae thin/pellet > inside it. It will dissolve but not completely disintegrate like other fish foods might. > The smell from the algae thin/pellet would attract the snails faster > than a piece of lettuce, IMO. If you have fry, they might also be able > to get into any hole you make for small snails but at least with fry, > you can lift the jar up near the surface, turn it upright, open it and > let the fry swim free while keeping the dissolved food and snails > inside. > > If you do use lettuce, use a piece of leaf from Romaine or some other > darker green lettuce instead of Iceberg. Iceberg is almost 100% water > and has little taste/smell (or nutritional value) to it so it will not > really attract critters. The dark green section of Romaine or other > lettuces have a taste and smell to them. If you do not use/eat leaves > on a regular basis, just ask your produce department employee if you > have a leaf and you could even let them know why. They'll probably > like the reason. Since a whole head is relatively cheap, there should > be no cost for a single leaf anyhow. > They probably have leaves in the back that they pulled off that > morning before putting the lettuce out on display. > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> (Links to any articles referenced in > above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels > and also under Archives by Year, Month) > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On Behalf Of Amber Berglund > Sent: Thursday, October 22, 2009 10:34 AM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Subject: [AquaticLife] Getting rid of pest snails > > Okay I want to try a bit harder to get rid of some of my pest snails > as they are trying to outpopulate my mystery snails ;) Is there a type > of lettuce that's better at the bait and pull method of getting rid of > snails? Or can I just use something like a jar with some food inside > of it and pull that out in the morning? > > Amber

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 43986	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 10/23/2009
Subject: Re: Pet Source USA Blog - Tropical Fish and Aquariums

As you can see from my previous reply, this website may not care about the content but rather about attracting visitors based on web search terms.... possibly with the intent on infecting unprotected computers with malware. From some of the computer tech yahoo groups and forums that I belong to, you would be surprised at how many people are surfing the net with severely unprotected computers or even moderately unprotected computers.... and these folks then get infected and their computers are then used by the hackers as part of a bot-net to further spam and try to infect the rest of us. Google and other search engines are able to tell which browser and version someone is using when they use their search engine and there is still a LARGE percentage of people (20% to 30% depending on the source estimate) that are still using IE6 with only SP1 installed on their computers... those computers are SEVERELY at risk of getting drive-by infections from simply visiting an infected website. If they are not concerned enough to upgrade their browser, they probably are not concerned with other security on their computers either. I did a Google search of certain snips of information from the page and I do NOT see any other sites with the same snips so this does not appear to be a site that simply grabs material from other sites and posts it as it's own information... although there are many other sites that do this. I use Google Alerts to monitor MY various names, nicknames, business name, etc., for anything that might show up on the net mentioning anything about me (or my biz) and I often see other websites that simply copy every post from this group (and from other groups/forums/websites) as if it was original content on that illegal copyright violating site. Most of these illegal sites are hosted in foreign countries so there is little that can be done. They simply steal content from other sites for the sole purpose of getting traffic to their website.. possibly only for advertising revenue purposes but also for the likely possibility of drive-by malware being pushed on people visiting the site. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Amber Berglund Sent: Friday, October 23, 2009 10:04 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Pet Source USA Blog - Tropical Fish and Aquariums I left a reply for the poster, I wasn't very happy that they were saying you can keep several goldfish in a 15 gallon tank... How stupid. Not to mention all the typos, someone should learn to proof read their paper before they submit it for people to read, especially if they want people to take them seriously ;) LOL Amber Steve Szabo wrote: > > > This seems to be more a collection of random thoughts, more than > anything else, and it does not appear that it was proof read. However, > it does bring up a number of interesting points ripe for discussion. > > http://www.petsourceusa.com/Blog/tropical-fish-and-aquariums.html > <http://www.petsourceusa.com/Blog/tropical-fish-and-aquariums.html> > http://tinyurl.com/ylrortn <http://tinyurl.com/ylrortn> > > \\Steve// >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 43987	From: Lisa	Date: 10/23/2009
Subject: Mollie's sore eye

I have a Dalmatian mollie, who appears to have an injured right eye. It seems to have puffed up quite a bit, and is slightly whitish. This is the first time I have encountered something like this. Any ideas as to what it could be? Thanks Lisa

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 43988	From: jett07002	Date: 10/23/2009
Subject: Re: Potted plants

I would not be so quick to pull the roots from the rock wool. It would do more harm than good. I just take as much rock wool away from mine as I can do without damaging the roots and then just spread the roots and rock wool as best you can and cover it with your substrate. Much easier and you will not see the rock wool. joe t.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 43989	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 10/23/2009
Subject: Re: Pet Source USA Blog - Tropical Fish and Aquariums

Certainly not a can of worms like this one: http://www.practicalfishkeeping.co.uk/pfk/pages/item.php?news=2279 \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of bill 1433 Sent: Friday, October 23, 2009 10:40 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Pet Source USA Blog - Tropical Fish and Aquariums Hi \\Steve// You're right, BUT do you really want to open a can of "worms" this large? Reading through, as you mention, there are a number of points, any of which would bring a slight avalanche of email to group! <g> Bill --- On Fri, 10/23/09, Steve Szabo <steve@...> wrote: > From: Steve Szabo <steve@...> > Subject: [AquaticLife] Pet Source USA Blog - Tropical Fish and Aquariums > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Date: Friday, October 23, 2009, 6:32 AM > This seems to be more a collection of > random thoughts, more than anything > else, and it does not appear that it was proof read. > However, it does bring > up a number of interesting points ripe for discussion. > > http://www.petsourceusa.com/Blog/tropical-fish-and-aquariums.html > http://tinyurl.com/ylrortn > > \\Steve// > > > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 43990	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 10/23/2009
Subject: Re: Pet Source USA Blog - Tropical Fish and Aquariums

Nah, you read it too. I had no problem with the site. \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Lenny V. aka GoldLenny Sent: Friday, October 23, 2009 12:49 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Pet Source USA Blog - Tropical Fish and Aquariums Like what? Or are you suggesting that we read it too? :-P On a security side note, that page caused IE8 to start using over 90% of my CPU cycles (per Task Manager) which normally means that my security programs are also being tasked by that link. I know you use Firefox so maybe the site has malware embedded in Active-x and/or Flash since I'm not sure if I had Flash toggled off with Toggle Flash. When the page finally loaded, there was a Windows Internet Explorer Script Error that says "Stop running this script? A script on this page is causing IE to run slowly. If it continues to run, your computer might become unresponsive" Of course, I clicked YES to stop the script, if it indeed was still running. I do not see any Flash content so it must have been scripts, possibly kiddie-scripts embedded in the page... but I did not have Flash turned off either so there's always a possibility that there was a hidden Flash attack embedded as well. I see what you mean about proof reading.. heck, they do not even have paragraphs. Maybe a bad copy/paste job that stripped the formatting??? Web Of Trust, http://www.mywot.com does not have this site rated yet. For those not familiar with Web Of Trust, they do have a download that will run on your computer all the time checking each site as you visit it but I do not use this *service*, instead, I check out pages manually by copy/pasting the URL into the Check... field at the top right of the MyWOT.com page... when I see an issue or my spidey-sense suggests I should check it out before visiting the site. WOT is pretty good and it's FREE, although they do have my own blog rated GREEN meaning it's OK but only has me at a score of 71 for trustworthiness... man, I thought I was at least 80% trustworthy. They have me at only 53 for Vendor Reliability which is strange since I do not sell anything and only a 41 for Child Safety... maybe because of my kind-of-new Jokes Page which has some PG rated jokes???? Who knows... or maybe my daughter reported me for using the paddle on her when she was a spoiled brat at times. LOL Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Steve Szabo Sent: Friday, October 23, 2009 5:32 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Pet Source USA Blog - Tropical Fish and Aquariums This seems to be more a collection of random thoughts, more than anything else, and it does not appear that it was proof read. However, it does bring up a number of interesting points ripe for discussion. http://www.petsourceusa.com/Blog/tropical-fish-and-aquariums.html http://tinyurl.com/ylrortn \\Steve//

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 43991	From: bill 1433	Date: 10/23/2009
Subject: Re: Pet Source USA Blog - Tropical Fish and Aquariums

Right!, you are, Bill --- On Fri, 10/23/09, Steve Szabo <steve@...> wrote: > From: Steve Szabo <steve@...> > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Pet Source USA Blog - Tropical Fish and Aquariums > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Date: Friday, October 23, 2009, 8:24 PM > Certainly not a can of worms like > this one: > http://www.practicalfishkeeping.co.uk/pfk/pages/item.php?news=2279 > > \\Steve// > > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] > On > Behalf Of bill 1433 > Sent: Friday, October 23, 2009 10:40 AM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Pet Source USA Blog - Tropical > Fish and Aquariums > > Hi \\Steve// > > You're right, BUT do you really want to open a can > of "worms" this large?  Reading through, as you > mention, > there are a number of points, any of which would bring a > slight > avalanche of email to group!  <g> > > Bill > > --- On Fri, 10/23/09, Steve Szabo <steve@...> > wrote: > > > From: Steve Szabo <steve@...> > > Subject: [AquaticLife] Pet Source USA Blog - Tropical > Fish and Aquariums > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > Date: Friday, October 23, 2009, 6:32 AM > > This seems to be more a collection of > > random thoughts, more than anything > > else, and it does not appear that it was proof read. > > However, it does bring > > up a number of interesting points ripe for > discussion. > > > > http://www.petsourceusa.com/Blog/tropical-fish-and-aquariums.html > > http://tinyurl.com/ylrortn > > > > \\Steve// > > > > > > > > > > > > ------------------------------------ > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when > replying, Thank You. > ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> > ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> > PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is > NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of > the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new > subject (was re: old subject)" <- > <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. > , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. > > If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of > unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by > clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the home page.  > > Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com > to receive the digest, which includes up to 25 posts at a > time in a single email > > Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com > for the No E-Mail option where you will still be able to > read messages on the group and post replies. > > Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com > to receive individual e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links > > >     mailto:AquaticLife-fullfeatured@yahoogroups.com > > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 43992	From: kuradi8	Date: 10/23/2009
Subject: Re: Mollie's sore eye

Gut reaction says it's pop-eye. Maracyn-Two will treat it. Be sure to read ALL the paperwork (including the parts that you don't think apply to you) before starting the course of treatment. (Don't ask me how I know that...:oP) ~Kai --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Lisa" <lisa_lawless2004@...> wrote: > > I have a Dalmatian mollie, who appears to have an injured right eye. It seems to have puffed up quite a bit, and is slightly whitish. > This is the first time I have encountered something like this. > > Any ideas as to what it could be? > Thanks > Lisa >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 43993	From: kuradi8	Date: 10/23/2009
Subject: Re: Potted plants

I've never had good luck with planting directly into the substrate. I prefer to keep them potted. I use plastic party cups. ~Kai --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, Lainey Alexander <lainealex@...> wrote: > > Can someone explain to me what to do with potted plants that have > green foam embedded in the roots? I don't want to use the pots and I > am trying to extricate the roots on some potted hairgrass, but to no > avail. The foam is completely embedded. I know they say this foam is > safe for fish, but I don't like the looks of it... > > Thanks, > > Lainey > http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 43994	From: bill 1433	Date: 10/23/2009
Subject: Re: Pet Source USA Blog - Tropical Fish and Aquariums

Hi Len, All due respect, you kind of dropped the ball on this one. When the page told you "a Windows Internet Explorer Script Error that says "Stop running this script?"-----------You should really stop running IE 8. Buddy, they ain't quite got this one coming out of the gate right. Script errors with a jump, all over the CPU usage are a fairly common issue that I have heard about from my computer groups. The big bang seems to come when it locks up the entire system, eventually causing you to re-boot. And good luck if you get mad at it and decide to call it "quits" and go back to IE 7. It's not that easy to dump! Had it, used it, did not like it and returned to IE 7. Security? Sure but for who? You or the machine? Who needs the grief? Bill --- On Fri, 10/23/09, Steve Szabo <steve@...> wrote: > From: Steve Szabo <steve@...> > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Pet Source USA Blog - Tropical Fish and Aquariums > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Date: Friday, October 23, 2009, 8:26 PM > Nah, you read it too. > > I had no problem with the site. > > \\Steve// > > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] > On > Behalf Of Lenny V. aka GoldLenny > Sent: Friday, October 23, 2009 12:49 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Pet Source USA Blog - Tropical > Fish and Aquariums > > Like what?  Or are you suggesting that we read it too? > :-P > > On a security side note, that page caused IE8 to start > using over 90% of my > CPU cycles (per Task Manager) which normally means that my > security programs > are also being tasked by that link.  I know you use > Firefox so maybe the > site has malware embedded in Active-x and/or Flash since > I'm not sure if I > had Flash toggled off with Toggle Flash.  When the > page finally loaded, > there was a Windows Internet Explorer Script Error that > says "Stop running > this script?  A script on this page is causing IE to > run slowly.  If it > continues to run, your computer might become > unresponsive"  Of course, I > clicked YES to stop the script, if it indeed was still > running.  I do not > see any Flash content so it must have been scripts, > possibly kiddie-scripts > embedded in the page... but I did not have Flash turned off > either so > there's always a possibility that there was a hidden Flash > attack embedded > as well. > > I see what you mean about proof reading.. heck, they do not > even have > paragraphs.  Maybe a bad copy/paste job that stripped > the formatting??? > > Web Of Trust, http://www.mywot.com does not have this site rated > yet.  For > those not familiar with Web Of Trust, they do have a > download that will run > on your computer all the time checking each site as you > visit it but I do > not use this *service*, instead, I check out pages manually > by copy/pasting > the URL into the Check... field at the top right of the > MyWOT.com page... > when I see an issue or my spidey-sense suggests I should > check it out before > visiting the site.  WOT is pretty good and it's FREE, > although they do have > my own blog rated GREEN meaning it's OK but only has me at > a score of 71 for > trustworthiness... man, I thought I was at least 80% > trustworthy.  They have > me at only 53 for Vendor Reliability which is strange since > I do not sell > anything and only a 41 for Child Safety... maybe because of > my kind-of-new > Jokes Page which has some PG rated jokes????  Who > knows... or maybe my > daughter reported me for using the paddle on her when she > was a spoiled brat > at times. LOL > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed > on the right > side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives > by Year, Month) > > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] > On > Behalf Of Steve Szabo > Sent: Friday, October 23, 2009 5:32 AM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Subject: [AquaticLife] Pet Source USA Blog - Tropical Fish > and Aquariums > > This seems to be more a collection of random thoughts, more > than anything > else, and it does not appear that it was proof read. > However, it does bring > up a number of interesting points ripe for discussion. > > http://www.petsourceusa.com/Blog/tropical-fish-and-aquariums.html > http://tinyurl.com/ylrortn > > \\Steve// > > > > > ------------------------------------ > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when > replying, Thank You. > ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> > ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> > PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is > NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of > the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new > subject (was re: old subject)" <- > <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. > , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. > > If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of > unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by > clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the home page.  > > Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com > to receive the digest, which includes up to 25 posts at a > time in a single email > > Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com > for the No E-Mail option where you will still be able to > read messages on the group and post replies. > > Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com > to receive individual e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links > > >     mailto:AquaticLife-fullfeatured@yahoogroups.com > > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 43995	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 10/23/2009
Subject: Re: Pet Source USA Blog - Tropical Fish and Aquariums

Lenny, As I mentioned earlier, I had no problems with the site. McAfee Site Advisor has no problem with the site. They appear to be a legit store, using Amazon's storefront to conduct business. You can't blame a problem with a script as a warning sign. I get that every so often from sites that are definitely legit. Sometimes closing down the browser and restarting it resolves whatever issue the site was exhibiting in your browser. As for the blog, it appears to be a flow of consciousness style of writing. Not as good as James Joyce, mind you, but flow of consciousness nevertheless. \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Lenny V. aka GoldLenny Sent: Friday, October 23, 2009 1:36 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Pet Source USA Blog - Tropical Fish and Aquariums As you can see from my previous reply, this website may not care about the content but rather about attracting visitors based on web search terms.... possibly with the intent on infecting unprotected computers with malware. From some of the computer tech yahoo groups and forums that I belong to, you would be surprised at how many people are surfing the net with severely unprotected computers or even moderately unprotected computers.... and these folks then get infected and their computers are then used by the hackers as part of a bot-net to further spam and try to infect the rest of us. Google and other search engines are able to tell which browser and version someone is using when they use their search engine and there is still a LARGE percentage of people (20% to 30% depending on the source estimate) that are still using IE6 with only SP1 installed on their computers... those computers are SEVERELY at risk of getting drive-by infections from simply visiting an infected website. If they are not concerned enough to upgrade their browser, they probably are not concerned with other security on their computers either. I did a Google search of certain snips of information from the page and I do NOT see any other sites with the same snips so this does not appear to be a site that simply grabs material from other sites and posts it as it's own information... although there are many other sites that do this. I use Google Alerts to monitor MY various names, nicknames, business name, etc., for anything that might show up on the net mentioning anything about me (or my biz) and I often see other websites that simply copy every post from this group (and from other groups/forums/websites) as if it was original content on that illegal copyright violating site. Most of these illegal sites are hosted in foreign countries so there is little that can be done. They simply steal content from other sites for the sole purpose of getting traffic to their website.. possibly only for advertising revenue purposes but also for the likely possibility of drive-by malware being pushed on people visiting the site. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Amber Berglund Sent: Friday, October 23, 2009 10:04 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Pet Source USA Blog - Tropical Fish and Aquariums I left a reply for the poster, I wasn't very happy that they were saying you can keep several goldfish in a 15 gallon tank... How stupid. Not to mention all the typos, someone should learn to proof read their paper before they submit it for people to read, especially if they want people to take them seriously ;) LOL Amber Steve Szabo wrote: > > > This seems to be more a collection of random thoughts, more than > anything else, and it does not appear that it was proof read. However, > it does bring up a number of interesting points ripe for discussion. > > http://www.petsourceusa.com/Blog/tropical-fish-and-aquariums.html > <http://www.petsourceusa.com/Blog/tropical-fish-and-aquariums.html> > http://tinyurl.com/ylrortn <http://tinyurl.com/ylrortn> > > \\Steve// >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 43996	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 10/23/2009
Subject: Re: Mollie's sore eye

Lisa, Is the eye swollen, or is it just the area around the eye, or both? The white you see is more like a clouded lens, or is it around the eye and fuzzy? Since we cannot see the fish, please go overboard with your descriptive terms so we can get a better idea of what you may be seeing, and give you a better diagnosis for which a course of treatment could be recommended. \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Lisa Sent: Friday, October 23, 2009 7:02 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Mollie's sore eye I have a Dalmatian mollie, who appears to have an injured right eye. It seems to have puffed up quite a bit, and is slightly whitish. This is the first time I have encountered something like this. Any ideas as to what it could be? Thanks Lisa

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 43997	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 10/23/2009
Subject: Re: Mollie's sore eye

It could be an injury but I wouldn't conclude it's injury unless you saw the injury actually take place. Pop-Eye also presents itself with the way you are describing your fish's eye and is a relatively common symptom of an internal bacterial issue. It can affect a single fish with none of the other fish showing any problems or being affected in any way. Is the fish acting sick right now? Is it hiding or staying away from other fish? Is it eating? If you have a Q-tank, I'd set it up with water from your main tank and move the affected fish and start off with making it's water excellent by doing daily PWC's and continue feeding it normal food and observing it's poop. Since you are in Australia, let us know what kinds of meds you have available. Even separating the fish so you can monitor it's poop and make sure it has excellent water quality and no stress or fear from other fish would also go a long way while waiting on a more conclusive diagnosis on whether it's an injury or Pop-Eye. Fish that are suffering from an injury or disease will often get stressed out even more around other fish (this is why they often will hide) as in the wild, a sick/injured fish is the most likely one to get picked on... or eaten by predators. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Lisa Sent: Friday, October 23, 2009 6:02 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Mollie's sore eye I have a Dalmatian mollie, who appears to have an injured right eye. It seems to have puffed up quite a bit, and is slightly whitish. This is the first time I have encountered something like this. Any ideas as to what it could be? Thanks Lisa

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 43998	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 10/23/2009
Subject: Re: Pet Source USA Blog - Tropical Fish and Aquariums

I figured that would be the link to the giant *pianist*-eating worm found in the UK. I was reading my PFK online earlier today and also saw the article posted in another group. LOL Some of the other articles in PFK were even more alarming. The UK media is really going nutzo on this global-warming BS. Maybe they'll take AlGore off our hands... if we beg! LOL Someone caught a tropical type fish in some cool water way up there and they attributed that to global warming. Ummmm.. couldn't they just test the temperature of the water and see it's still cool... or look at global temperature trends over the past 10 years? Temps have been coming down for the past 10 years which is why all the global warming nutzos are calling it "climate change" now... since we're not warming anymore. Maybe, just maybe, it's just normal cyclical warming/cooling like that which happens from season to season every year... except it's over a much longer period? Oh wait.. that would disprove all the global-warming / climate-change hype so they'll never accept a logical answer like that. LOL Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Steve Szabo Sent: Friday, October 23, 2009 7:24 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Pet Source USA Blog - Tropical Fish and Aquariums Certainly not a can of worms like this one: http://www.practicalfishkeeping.co.uk/pfk/pages/item.php?news=2279 \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of bill 1433 Sent: Friday, October 23, 2009 10:40 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Pet Source USA Blog - Tropical Fish and Aquariums Hi \\Steve// You're right, BUT do you really want to open a can of "worms" this large? Reading through, as you mention, there are a number of points, any of which would bring a slight avalanche of email to group! <g> Bill --- On Fri, 10/23/09, Steve Szabo <steve@...> wrote: > From: Steve Szabo <steve@...> > Subject: [AquaticLife] Pet Source USA Blog - Tropical Fish and > Aquariums > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Date: Friday, October 23, 2009, 6:32 AM This seems to be more a > collection of random thoughts, more than anything else, and it does > not appear that it was proof read. > However, it does bring > up a number of interesting points ripe for discussion. > > http://www.petsourceusa.com/Blog/tropical-fish-and-aquariums.html > http://tinyurl.com/ylrortn > > \\Steve//

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 43999	From: Lainey Alexander	Date: 10/23/2009
Subject: Re: Potted plants

Joe - Will the rockwool disintegrate and end up going all over the tank, or will it stay put in the gravel? Lainey http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com On Oct 23, 2009, at 5:51 PM, jett07002 wrote: > > I would not be so quick to pull the roots from the rock wool. It > would do more harm than good. I just take as much rock wool away > from mine as I can do without damaging the roots and then just > spread the roots and rock wool as best you can and cover it with > your substrate. Much easier and you will not see the rock wool. > > joe t. > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 44000	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 10/23/2009
Subject: Re: Pet Source USA Blog - Tropical Fish and Aquariums

Nahhh.. IE8 runs fine 99% of the time on all three of my computers... even my old one with only 384MB of RAM. I see just as many complaints, on percentage, from other browser users as I do for IE8 and IE in general. Remember you will see a lot more complaints about IE since a LOT more people use it. IE still garners over 70% market share (give or take a point depending on the study). I am constantly having to help my friends who use Firefox or one of the other browsers and their computers are completely fouled up with malware. A browser can only do so much. In fact, this is the first Script Error that I've seen since running IE8 on any of my computers. Most of the affected computers that are seeing repeated script errors were likely due to the users not having clean machines in the first place (or having all kinds of crap like toolbars installed on IE7) when they upgraded to IE8.... at least that's what I've found to be the problem. Some people download every dang toolbar that is offered to them and all of them just bog down a browser.... especially the malicious ad-ware infested toolbars. The only toolbar I run is RoboForms and only because I use RF so much for user ID and password management, logging into various sites, etc. I actually had more issues with IE7 due to the way it used only one process per window, regardless of how many tabs were open. Bad Flash coding was also causing IE7 to freeze up constantly which is when I first found Toggle Flash and started using it to turn Flash off all the time, except for when I'm at a site like YouTube, HULU, etc., that needs Flash turned on.. then I click the Toggle Flash button and refresh the page. I have a write-up about Toggle Flash on my non-fish blog, http://lennyvasbinder.blogspot.com, which is where I also have a lot of my political opinions posted. LOL IE8 does use up more resources but each tab has it's own process so it's more stable. IE7 used only one process per window, regardless of how many tabs were open and it was subject to freeze-ups more often. The ONLY time I have a problem with IE8 (with Flash toggled off) is when it's a website that is causing the problem from poor code to malicious code. Blaming that on IE would be like blaming your computer when the power goes out.... it's not the computer's fault... well at least not YOUR computer... most likely a computer or PICNIC at the energy company. (PICNIC = Problem In Chair, Not In Computer) Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of bill 1433 Sent: Friday, October 23, 2009 8:08 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Pet Source USA Blog - Tropical Fish and Aquariums Hi Len, All due respect, you kind of dropped the ball on this one. When the page told you "a Windows Internet Explorer Script Error that says "Stop running this script?"-----------You should really stop running IE 8. Buddy, they ain't quite got this one coming out of the gate right. Script errors with a jump, all over the CPU usage are a fairly common issue that I have heard about from my computer groups. The big bang seems to come when it locks up the entire system, eventually causing you to re-boot. And good luck if you get mad at it and decide to call it "quits" and go back to IE 7. It's not that easy to dump! Had it, used it, did not like it and returned to IE 7. Security? Sure but for who? You or the machine? Who needs the grief? Bill --- On Fri, 10/23/09, Steve Szabo <steve@...> wrote: > From: Steve Szabo <steve@...> > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Pet Source USA Blog - Tropical Fish and > Aquariums > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Date: Friday, October 23, 2009, 8:26 PM Nah, you read it too. > > I had no problem with the site. > > \\Steve// > > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] > On > Behalf Of Lenny V. aka GoldLenny > Sent: Friday, October 23, 2009 12:49 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Pet Source USA Blog - Tropical Fish and > Aquariums > > Like what?  Or are you suggesting that we read it too? > :-P > > On a security side note, that page caused IE8 to start using over 90% > of my CPU cycles (per Task Manager) which normally means that my > security programs are also being tasked by that link.  I know you use > Firefox so maybe the site has malware embedded in Active-x and/or > Flash since I'm not sure if I had Flash toggled off with Toggle Flash.  > When the page finally loaded, there was a Windows Internet Explorer > Script Error that says "Stop running this script?  A script on this > page is causing IE to run slowly.  If it continues to run, your > computer might become unresponsive"  Of course, I clicked YES to stop > the script, if it indeed was still running.  I do not see any Flash > content so it must have been scripts, possibly kiddie-scripts embedded > in the page... but I did not have Flash turned off either so there's > always a possibility that there was a hidden Flash attack embedded as > well. > > I see what you mean about proof reading.. heck, they do not even have > paragraphs.  Maybe a bad copy/paste job that stripped the > formatting??? > > Web Of Trust, http://www.mywot.com does not have this site rated yet.  > For those not familiar with Web Of Trust, they do have a download that > will run on your computer all the time checking each site as you visit > it but I do not use this *service*, instead, I check out pages > manually by copy/pasting the URL into the Check... field at the top > right of the MyWOT.com page... > when I see an issue or my spidey-sense suggests I should check it out > before visiting the site.  WOT is pretty good and it's FREE, although > they do have my own blog rated GREEN meaning it's OK but only has me > at a score of 71 for trustworthiness... man, I thought I was at least > 80% trustworthy.  They have me at only 53 for Vendor Reliability which > is strange since I do not sell anything and only a 41 for Child > Safety... maybe because of my kind-of-new Jokes Page which has some PG > rated jokes????  Who knows... or maybe my daughter reported me for > using the paddle on her when she was a spoiled brat at times. LOL > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles > referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically > under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) > > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] > On > Behalf Of Steve Szabo > Sent: Friday, October 23, 2009 5:32 AM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Subject: [AquaticLife] Pet Source USA Blog - Tropical Fish > and Aquariums > > This seems to be more a collection of random thoughts, more > than anything > else, and it does not appear that it was proof read. > However, it does bring > up a number of interesting points ripe for discussion. > > http://www.petsourceusa.com/Blog/tropical-fish-and-aquariums.html > http://tinyurl.com/ylrortn > > \\Steve//

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 44001	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 10/23/2009
Subject: Re: Pet Source USA Blog - Tropical Fish and Aquariums

\\Steve// said... "As for the blog, it appears to be a flow of consciousness style of writing. Not as good as James Joyce, mind you, but flow of consciousness nevertheless." Whenever I write like that, it's usually due to me about to suffer a flow of unconsciousness. Hiccup! LOL I just went to the link again and saw Task Manager spike again. I didn't open it to see if it was the iexplore.exe process but I'm sure that was which process was spiking. Then I edited all of the link except for http://www.petsourceusa.com and went to that page and saw IE8 bog down again. No script errors this time but something on that site isn't playing well with IE8. As far as McAfee's Site Advisor... I've read that their definitions are REALLY old and haven't been updated in a long time because the crawler that they use does not crawl the web very often so a website could have a green rating and then get infected and it doesn't get crawled again so the green rating stays. Same for a red rating with a site that was green, then got infected and cleaned up but SA does not re-crawl the infected site so it continues to give a red rating. Here's some of the articles out there but you can Google and find thousands. http://www.theregister.co.uk/2008/07/17/siteadvisor_false_alert/ http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/McAfee_SiteAdvisor (lists many links in their references section) If I was going to use one of these types of services, I would go with Web Of Trust. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/WOT:_Web_of_Trust BTW... what does Site Advisor say about my blog? It says I'm in the GREEN with them also. http://www.siteadvisor.com/sites/goldlenny.blogspot.com Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Steve Szabo Sent: Friday, October 23, 2009 8:35 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Pet Source USA Blog - Tropical Fish and Aquariums Lenny, As I mentioned earlier, I had no problems with the site. McAfee Site Advisor has no problem with the site. They appear to be a legit store, using Amazon's storefront to conduct business. You can't blame a problem with a script as a warning sign. I get that every so often from sites that are definitely legit. Sometimes closing down the browser and restarting it resolves whatever issue the site was exhibiting in your browser. As for the blog, it appears to be a flow of consciousness style of writing. Not as good as James Joyce, mind you, but flow of consciousness nevertheless. \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Lenny V. aka GoldLenny Sent: Friday, October 23, 2009 1:36 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Pet Source USA Blog - Tropical Fish and Aquariums As you can see from my previous reply, this website may not care about the content but rather about attracting visitors based on web search terms.... possibly with the intent on infecting unprotected computers with malware. From some of the computer tech yahoo groups and forums that I belong to, you would be surprised at how many people are surfing the net with severely unprotected computers or even moderately unprotected computers.... and these folks then get infected and their computers are then used by the hackers as part of a bot-net to further spam and try to infect the rest of us. Google and other search engines are able to tell which browser and version someone is using when they use their search engine and there is still a LARGE percentage of people (20% to 30% depending on the source estimate) that are still using IE6 with only SP1 installed on their computers... those computers are SEVERELY at risk of getting drive-by infections from simply visiting an infected website. If they are not concerned enough to upgrade their browser, they probably are not concerned with other security on their computers either. I did a Google search of certain snips of information from the page and I do NOT see any other sites with the same snips so this does not appear to be a site that simply grabs material from other sites and posts it as it's own information... although there are many other sites that do this. I use Google Alerts to monitor MY various names, nicknames, business name, etc., for anything that might show up on the net mentioning anything about me (or my biz) and I often see other websites that simply copy every post from this group (and from other groups/forums/websites) as if it was original content on that illegal copyright violating site. Most of these illegal sites are hosted in foreign countries so there is little that can be done. They simply steal content from other sites for the sole purpose of getting traffic to their website.. possibly only for advertising revenue purposes but also for the likely possibility of drive-by malware being pushed on people visiting the site. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Amber Berglund Sent: Friday, October 23, 2009 10:04 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Pet Source USA Blog - Tropical Fish and Aquariums I left a reply for the poster, I wasn't very happy that they were saying you can keep several goldfish in a 15 gallon tank... How stupid. Not to mention all the typos, someone should learn to proof read their paper before they submit it for people to read, especially if they want people to take them seriously ;) LOL Amber Steve Szabo wrote: > > > This seems to be more a collection of random thoughts, more than > anything else, and it does not appear that it was proof read. However, > it does bring up a number of interesting points ripe for discussion. > > http://www.petsourceusa.com/Blog/tropical-fish-and-aquariums.html > <http://www.petsourceusa.com/Blog/tropical-fish-and-aquariums.html> > http://tinyurl.com/ylrortn <http://tinyurl.com/ylrortn> > > \\Steve//

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 44002	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 10/23/2009
Subject: Re: Pet Source USA Blog - Tropical Fish and Aquariums

I've seen those complaints as well. However, I get a regular newsletter from a publication, and would go to their site to read what was interesting. Suddenly, they were red flagged by McAfee, and that lasted about 3 weeks or so, and then they were green again. I do not think that was unreasonable I never bothered to go lookup the reason for the red flagging, and I don't know how long it took the site to clean up its act, whatever it was. I take these complaints with a grain of salt, after all, remember the saying that on the Internet, no one knows you are a dog. The anonymous nature of these posts leaves it wide open for people to post whatever they will, whether they are actually affected by what they are complaining about or not. Exaggeration to the point of hyperbole is seen quite often. I've seen this happen with firms and products I am quite familiar with, and wonder what world these complainers are from. A couple of good places to see this in action is to read the comment sections following articles and blogs on TechRepublic and ZDNet, where they usually turn into the old Linux or Mac is better and more secure than windows when, in fact, you will see as many patches from either camp, or more, for the respective OS, They claim magnificent security for their OS, when, in actuality it is more practicing security by obscurity. \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Lenny V. aka GoldLenny Sent: Friday, October 23, 2009 10:58 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Pet Source USA Blog - Tropical Fish and Aquariums \\Steve// said... "As for the blog, it appears to be a flow of consciousness style of writing. Not as good as James Joyce, mind you, but flow of consciousness nevertheless." Whenever I write like that, it's usually due to me about to suffer a flow of unconsciousness. Hiccup! LOL I just went to the link again and saw Task Manager spike again. I didn't open it to see if it was the iexplore.exe process but I'm sure that was which process was spiking. Then I edited all of the link except for http://www.petsourceusa.com and went to that page and saw IE8 bog down again. No script errors this time but something on that site isn't playing well with IE8. As far as McAfee's Site Advisor... I've read that their definitions are REALLY old and haven't been updated in a long time because the crawler that they use does not crawl the web very often so a website could have a green rating and then get infected and it doesn't get crawled again so the green rating stays. Same for a red rating with a site that was green, then got infected and cleaned up but SA does not re-crawl the infected site so it continues to give a red rating. Here's some of the articles out there but you can Google and find thousands. http://www.theregister.co.uk/2008/07/17/siteadvisor_false_alert/ http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/McAfee_SiteAdvisor (lists many links in their references section) If I was going to use one of these types of services, I would go with Web Of Trust. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/WOT:_Web_of_Trust BTW... what does Site Advisor say about my blog? It says I'm in the GREEN with them also. http://www.siteadvisor.com/sites/goldlenny.blogspot.com Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Steve Szabo Sent: Friday, October 23, 2009 8:35 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Pet Source USA Blog - Tropical Fish and Aquariums Lenny, As I mentioned earlier, I had no problems with the site. McAfee Site Advisor has no problem with the site. They appear to be a legit store, using Amazon's storefront to conduct business. You can't blame a problem with a script as a warning sign. I get that every so often from sites that are definitely legit. Sometimes closing down the browser and restarting it resolves whatever issue the site was exhibiting in your browser. As for the blog, it appears to be a flow of consciousness style of writing. Not as good as James Joyce, mind you, but flow of consciousness nevertheless. \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Lenny V. aka GoldLenny Sent: Friday, October 23, 2009 1:36 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Pet Source USA Blog - Tropical Fish and Aquariums As you can see from my previous reply, this website may not care about the content but rather about attracting visitors based on web search terms.... possibly with the intent on infecting unprotected computers with malware. From some of the computer tech yahoo groups and forums that I belong to, you would be surprised at how many people are surfing the net with severely unprotected computers or even moderately unprotected computers.... and these folks then get infected and their computers are then used by the hackers as part of a bot-net to further spam and try to infect the rest of us. Google and other search engines are able to tell which browser and version someone is using when they use their search engine and there is still a LARGE percentage of people (20% to 30% depending on the source estimate) that are still using IE6 with only SP1 installed on their computers... those computers are SEVERELY at risk of getting drive-by infections from simply visiting an infected website. If they are not concerned enough to upgrade their browser, they probably are not concerned with other security on their computers either. I did a Google search of certain snips of information from the page and I do NOT see any other sites with the same snips so this does not appear to be a site that simply grabs material from other sites and posts it as it's own information... although there are many other sites that do this. I use Google Alerts to monitor MY various names, nicknames, business name, etc., for anything that might show up on the net mentioning anything about me (or my biz) and I often see other websites that simply copy every post from this group (and from other groups/forums/websites) as if it was original content on that illegal copyright violating site. Most of these illegal sites are hosted in foreign countries so there is little that can be done. They simply steal content from other sites for the sole purpose of getting traffic to their website.. possibly only for advertising revenue purposes but also for the likely possibility of drive-by malware being pushed on people visiting the site. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Amber Berglund Sent: Friday, October 23, 2009 10:04 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Pet Source USA Blog - Tropical Fish and Aquariums I left a reply for the poster, I wasn't very happy that they were saying you can keep several goldfish in a 15 gallon tank... How stupid. Not to mention all the typos, someone should learn to proof read their paper before they submit it for people to read, especially if they want people to take them seriously ;) LOL Amber Steve Szabo wrote: > > > This seems to be more a collection of random thoughts, more than > anything else, and it does not appear that it was proof read. However, > it does bring up a number of interesting points ripe for discussion. > > http://www.petsourceusa.com/Blog/tropical-fish-and-aquariums.html > <http://www.petsourceusa.com/Blog/tropical-fish-and-aquariums.html> > http://tinyurl.com/ylrortn <http://tinyurl.com/ylrortn> > > \\Steve//

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 44003	From: Gwydryn@aol.com	Date: 10/23/2009
Subject: Re: Pet Source USA Blog - Tropical Fish and Aquariums

In a message dated 10/23/2009 9:19:16 P.M. Central Daylight Time, GoldLenny@... writes: Maybe, just maybe, it's just normal cyclical warming/cooling like that which happens from season to season every year... except it's over a much longer period? Oh wait.. that would disprove all the global-warming / climate-change hype so they'll never accept a logical answer like that. LOL Lenny Vasbinder Ah Lenny, a man after my own heart! Enid "Life is not about waiting for the storms to pass...it's about learning how to dance in the rain." [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 44004	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 10/23/2009
Subject: Re: Potted plants

It should stay put, especially if it's mostly buried, or fully buried, it won't disintegrate. Amber Lainey Alexander wrote: > > > Joe - > > Will the rockwool disintegrate and end up going all over the tank, or > will it stay put in the gravel? > > Lainey > http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com <http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com> > > On Oct 23, 2009, at 5:51 PM, jett07002 wrote: > > > > > I would not be so quick to pull the roots from the rock wool. It > > would do more harm than good. I just take as much rock wool away > > from mine as I can do without damaging the roots and then just > > spread the roots and rock wool as best you can and cover it with > > your substrate. Much easier and you will not see the rock wool. > > > > joe t. > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 44005	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 10/23/2009
Subject: Re: Potted plants

Lainey, You initially said "foam" and I know a couple of other informed fish keepers said it was likely rock wool but you do need to verify this. I wasn't familiar with rock wool so I Googled it and there are several types but the three I read about all seem to be rather benign and should not break down since it's made by blowing a jet of steam through molten rock (BUT READ THE SAFETY PRECAUTIONS IN THE WIKIPEDIA ARTICLE). It can also be called Mineral Wool and is usually used in insulation (like fiberglass) but is also used as a plant rooting substrate. Here's a couple of definitions and the Wikipedia page... http://www.yourdictionary.com/rock-wool http://mw1.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/rockwool http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mineral_wool "Mineral wool, also known as mineral fibres or man-made mineral fibres are fibres made from natural or synthetic minerals or metal oxides. The latter term is generally used to refer solely to synthetic materials including fibreglass, ceramic fibres and rock or stone wool. Industrial applications of mineral wool include thermal insulation, filtration, soundproofing, and germination of seedlings." (END SNIP) READ DOWN FURTHER IN THE WIKIPEDIA ARTICLE ABOUT SAFETY ISSUES. There is also a green foam that is used in flower shops but I believe that is probably pretty inert and benign also. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Amber Berglund Sent: Friday, October 23, 2009 11:32 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: Potted plants It should stay put, especially if it's mostly buried, or fully buried, it won't disintegrate. Amber Lainey Alexander wrote: > > > Joe - > > Will the rockwool disintegrate and end up going all over the tank, or > will it stay put in the gravel? > > Lainey > http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com > <http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com> > > On Oct 23, 2009, at 5:51 PM, jett07002 wrote: > > > > > I would not be so quick to pull the roots from the rock wool. It > > would do more harm than good. I just take as much rock wool away > > from mine as I can do without damaging the roots and then just > > spread the roots and rock wool as best you can and cover it with > > your substrate. Much easier and you will not see the rock wool. > > > > joe t.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 44006	From: Lainey Alexander	Date: 10/23/2009
Subject: Re: Potted plants

The plants I got were from aquariumplants.com - I must assume that they are using the rockwool? Lainey http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com On Oct 24, 2009, at 12:56 AM, Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > Lainey, > > You initially said "foam" and I know a couple of other informed > fish keepers > said it was likely rock wool but you do need to verify this. > > I wasn't familiar with rock wool so I Googled it and there are > several types > but the three I read about all seem to be rather benign and should > not break > down since it's made by blowing a jet of steam through molten rock > (BUT READ > THE SAFETY PRECAUTIONS IN THE WIKIPEDIA ARTICLE). It can also be > called > Mineral Wool and is usually used in insulation (like fiberglass) > but is also > used as a plant rooting substrate. > > Here's a couple of definitions and the Wikipedia page... > > http://www.yourdictionary.com/rock-wool > > http://mw1.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/rockwool > > http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mineral_wool > "Mineral wool, also known as mineral fibres or man-made mineral > fibres are > fibres made from natural or synthetic minerals or metal oxides. The > latter > term is generally used to refer solely to synthetic materials > including > fibreglass, ceramic fibres and rock or stone wool. Industrial > applications > of mineral wool include thermal insulation, filtration, > soundproofing, and > germination of seedlings." (END SNIP) > > READ DOWN FURTHER IN THE WIKIPEDIA ARTICLE ABOUT SAFETY ISSUES. > > There is also a green foam that is used in flower shops but I > believe that > is probably pretty inert and benign also. > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the > right > side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, > Month) > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On > Behalf Of Amber Berglund > Sent: Friday, October 23, 2009 11:32 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: Potted plants > > It should stay put, especially if it's mostly buried, or fully > buried, it > won't disintegrate. > > Amber > > Lainey Alexander wrote: > > > > > > Joe - > > > > Will the rockwool disintegrate and end up going all over the > tank, or > > will it stay put in the gravel? > > > > Lainey > > http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com > > <http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com> > > > > On Oct 23, 2009, at 5:51 PM, jett07002 wrote: > > > > > > > > I would not be so quick to pull the roots from the rock wool. It > > > would do more harm than good. I just take as much rock wool away > > > from mine as I can do without damaging the roots and then just > > > spread the roots and rock wool as best you can and cover it with > > > your substrate. Much easier and you will not see the rock wool. > > > > > > joe t. > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 44007	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 10/23/2009
Subject: Re: Potted plants

You know that old saying about "assume". ;-) Either look at images of rock wool on the web till you are reasonably certain or contact aquariumplants.com to verify what they use and whether it can be left in a tank long term. While fiberglass, asbestos and rock wool used as insulation, works fine, it should be encapsulated/enclosed for safety, so that broken off fibers cannot become airborne... or in the case of an aquarium, water borne. If the stuff was under the substrate, never to be disturbed, that would probably be OK but since you might be moving plants, siphoning the substrate, etc., it most likely will not be undisturbed and you could end up with little glass-like fibers floating around in the water which could cause gill damage or internal organ cancer, much like unencapsulated blown-on asbestos insulation has been alleged to cause mesothelioma according to all the lawyer commercials. BTW... if you do not know that old saying, I always try to use "presume" instead of "assume" since then, I can only make a pres out of u and me. ;-) Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Lainey Alexander Sent: Saturday, October 24, 2009 12:37 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: Potted plants The plants I got were from aquariumplants.com - I must assume that they are using the rockwool? Lainey http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com On Oct 24, 2009, at 12:56 AM, Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > Lainey, > > You initially said "foam" and I know a couple of other informed fish > keepers said it was likely rock wool but you do need to verify this. > > I wasn't familiar with rock wool so I Googled it and there are several > types but the three I read about all seem to be rather benign and > should not break down since it's made by blowing a jet of steam > through molten rock (BUT READ THE SAFETY PRECAUTIONS IN THE WIKIPEDIA > ARTICLE). It can also be called Mineral Wool and is usually used in > insulation (like fiberglass) but is also used as a plant rooting > substrate. > > Here's a couple of definitions and the Wikipedia page... > > http://www.yourdictionary.com/rock-wool > > http://mw1.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/rockwool > > http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mineral_wool > "Mineral wool, also known as mineral fibres or man-made mineral fibres > are fibres made from natural or synthetic minerals or metal oxides. > The latter term is generally used to refer solely to synthetic > materials including fibreglass, ceramic fibres and rock or stone wool. > Industrial applications of mineral wool include thermal insulation, > filtration, soundproofing, and germination of seedlings." (END SNIP) > > READ DOWN FURTHER IN THE WIKIPEDIA ARTICLE ABOUT SAFETY ISSUES. > > There is also a green foam that is used in flower shops but I believe > that is probably pretty inert and benign also. > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles > referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically > under Labels and also under Archives by Year, > Month) > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Amber Berglund > Sent: Friday, October 23, 2009 11:32 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: Potted plants > > It should stay put, especially if it's mostly buried, or fully buried, > it won't disintegrate. > > Amber > > Lainey Alexander wrote: > > > > > > Joe - > > > > Will the rockwool disintegrate and end up going all over the > tank, or > > will it stay put in the gravel? > > > > Lainey > > http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com > > <http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com> > > > > On Oct 23, 2009, at 5:51 PM, jett07002 wrote: > > > > > > > > I would not be so quick to pull the roots from the rock wool. It > > > would do more harm than good. I just take as much rock wool away > > > from mine as I can do without damaging the roots and then just > > > spread the roots and rock wool as best you can and cover it with > > > your substrate. Much easier and you will not see the rock wool. > > > > > > joe t.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 44008	From: Lisa	Date: 10/23/2009
Subject: Re: Mollie's sore eye

Okay. Well from your questions, and what I can physically observe the puffyness/bubble seems to be around and over the eye like a dome, but not touching it. And there looks like there might be flakey scales underneath it...? He/she is not being bullied by it's tank mates, is eating as veraciously as the rest, and is not hiding or showing abnormal behavior. I have not seen it poop yet, but I doubt it's constipated. Swim bladder is not dysfunctional. And it is able to swim correctly, and find food easyly. Gills are clear. And fins in good condition I cleaned and did a pwc last night, as per usual. Other eye is unaffected I do not have a Q tank for lack of space atm. But I do have an isolation box that floats in the water. I could put it in there, but I do not want to cause unnecessary stress. So I am hesitant to medicate the whole tank, when the rest are healthy. Another side note, is that being a Dalmatian mollie, when I got it originally, I also had another mollie with it. It has since passed on. This one had an even coverage of black white spots, quite striking it was, but since it's friend died, it is now almost completely black. Water temp is – 25 – 26*, 77 – 78F PH – 7.0 KH – 35.8 NITERITE – 0 PPM NITERATE – 5.0 PPM AMONIA – 0.02, 0.05 LISA

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 44009	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 10/24/2009
Subject: Re: Mollie's sore eye

It's quite common for dalmation mollies to change colors. This is due to the inbreeding that is done to create their unusual coloration. The same thing happens with fancy goldfish. Many people buy "Black Moors" and as they mature, they go from black to brown and gold to fully gold. Usually, only the more expensive breeds of these fancy fish are bred with enough purity where they will maintain their coloration. The ones we buy at our LFS and pet stores are usually bulk bred so they have more of the color qualities of mutts than carefully inbred color variants or pure-bred fish. It could have been exacerbated by being kept singly but it likely would have happened regardless. None of my fancy goldfish look anything like they did when I first got them... except the calico's are still calico, just their spots are in different places now. When I was talking about the fish poop, I wasn't worried as much about constipation as I was diarrhea or long stringy whitish colored poop, which would be more indicative of internal issues. Since it seems to be eating OK and not being picked on or hiding, that is good Do you have any medicated fish food? Jungle Brand makes an antibacterial medicated fish food that actually has some decent ingredients in it. I'm not sure if that brand is available down under. If it is, you could try getting that food to the mollie and the unmedicated food to the other fish. This would be difficult without isolating the mollie but maybe you can figure out some way to lure the other fish away from the mollie while you feed it the medicated food. This would need to be fed for at least a week to 10 days. Of course, isolating the fish in the floating net would also give you the opportunity to see if it is putting out normal fish poop or not. Maybe, even without using the medicated food, you could isolate the fish in the floating net for at least 24 hours just to be able to observe its poop and let us know if it is normal or not. If the poop is normal, then that would help steer the diagnosis towards an injury instead of internal bacterial issues but if the poop indicates abnormality, then you could continue treatment with the medicated food in the isolation net. What kind/brand of test kit do you use? I remember in the past that you would have ammonia readings and you are showing an ammonia reading now but you have both 0.02 and 0.05 so I'm not sure which number is correct.... or is the reading between these two numbers or what? Ammonia should ALWAYS be 0.00ppm but it could be your test kit or the color chart or something that is indicating this low level of ammonia... or are you using the SeaChem Ammonia alert meter? I seem to remember you are using that and if you are, let us know if the color is showing safe or what color/indication on the meter? If you are taking the color from the meter and translating it into numbers let us know this also since the SeaChem Ammonia Alert measures ammonia differently than most test kits. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Lisa Sent: Saturday, October 24, 2009 1:32 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Mollie's sore eye Okay. Well from your questions, and what I can physically observe.the puffyness/bubble seems to be around and over the eye like a dome, but not touching it. And there looks like there might be flakey scales underneath it...? He/she is not being bullied by it's tank mates, is eating as veraciously as the rest, and is not hiding or showing abnormal behavior. I have not seen it poop yet, but I doubt it's constipated. Swim bladder is not dysfunctional. And it is able to swim correctly, and find food easyly. Gills are clear. And fins in good condition I cleaned and did a pwc last night, as per usual. Other eye is unaffected I do not have a Q tank for lack of space atm. But I do have an isolation box that floats in the water. I could put it in there, but I do not want to cause unnecessary stress. So I am hesitant to medicate the whole tank, when the rest are healthy. Another side note, is that being a Dalmatian mollie, when I got it originally, I also had another mollie with it. It has since passed on. This one had an even coverage of black white spots, quite striking it was, but since it's friend died, it is now almost completely black. Water temp is - 25 - 26*, 77 - 78F PH - 7.0 KH - 35.8 NITERITE - 0 PPM NITERATE - 5.0 PPM AMONIA - 0.02, 0.05 LISA

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 44010	From: Donna Ransome	Date: 10/24/2009
Subject: Re: Potted plants

I always remove mine, but the roots of the plants I received potted were fairly sturdy. _____ From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Lenny V. aka GoldLenny Sent: Saturday, October 24, 2009 12:56 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: Potted plants Lainey, You initially said "foam" and I know a couple of other informed fish keepers said it was likely rock wool but you do need to verify this. I wasn't familiar with rock wool so I Googled it and there are several types but the three I read about all seem to be rather benign and should not break down since it's made by blowing a jet of steam through molten rock (BUT READ THE SAFETY PRECAUTIONS IN THE WIKIPEDIA ARTICLE). It can also be called Mineral Wool and is usually used in insulation (like fiberglass) but is also used as a plant rooting substrate. Here's a couple of definitions and the Wikipedia page... http://www.yourdict <http://www.yourdictionary.com/rock-wool> ionary.com/rock-wool http://mw1.merriam- <http://mw1.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/rockwool> webster.com/dictionary/rockwool http://en.wikipedia <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mineral_wool> .org/wiki/Mineral_wool "Mineral wool, also known as mineral fibres or man-made mineral fibres are fibres made from natural or synthetic minerals or metal oxides. The latter term is generally used to refer solely to synthetic materials including fibreglass, ceramic fibres and rock or stone wool. Industrial applications of mineral wool include thermal insulation, filtration, soundproofing, and germination of seedlings." (END SNIP) READ DOWN FURTHER IN THE WIKIPEDIA ARTICLE ABOUT SAFETY ISSUES. There is also a green foam that is used in flower shops but I believe that is probably pretty inert and benign also. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Amber Berglund Sent: Friday, October 23, 2009 11:32 PM To: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: Potted plants It should stay put, especially if it's mostly buried, or fully buried, it won't disintegrate. Amber Lainey Alexander wrote: > > > Joe - > > Will the rockwool disintegrate and end up going all over the tank, or > will it stay put in the gravel? > > Lainey > http://www.grasslan <http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com> dsgouldians.com > <http://www.grasslan <http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com> dsgouldians.com> > > On Oct 23, 2009, at 5:51 PM, jett07002 wrote: > > > > > I would not be so quick to pull the roots from the rock wool. It > > would do more harm than good. I just take as much rock wool away > > from mine as I can do without damaging the roots and then just > > spread the roots and rock wool as best you can and cover it with > > your substrate. Much easier and you will not see the rock wool. > > > > joe t. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 44011	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 10/24/2009
Subject: Re: Potted plants

Lenny, First, I do not know if the material that some aquatic plants are grown in is actually rock wool or if it is a synthetic like polyester. Second, the material is wet, making it highly unlikely that any fibers will become airborne which makes the warning posted moot. I take back my first point--see http://www.tropica.com/default.asp near the bottom of the page. Click on the link to learn how remove the plants from the material and how to plant. I was trying to look at some of their videos on YouTube, but there seems to be a problem with getting them to play. If you would like to try--they have several, just go to YouTube and enter "tropica", without the quotes, in the search field. \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Lenny V. aka GoldLenny Sent: Saturday, October 24, 2009 12:56 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: Potted plants Lainey, You initially said "foam" and I know a couple of other informed fish keepers said it was likely rock wool but you do need to verify this. I wasn't familiar with rock wool so I Googled it and there are several types but the three I read about all seem to be rather benign and should not break down since it's made by blowing a jet of steam through molten rock (BUT READ THE SAFETY PRECAUTIONS IN THE WIKIPEDIA ARTICLE). It can also be called Mineral Wool and is usually used in insulation (like fiberglass) but is also used as a plant rooting substrate. Here's a couple of definitions and the Wikipedia page... http://www.yourdictionary.com/rock-wool http://mw1.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/rockwool http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mineral_wool "Mineral wool, also known as mineral fibres or man-made mineral fibres are fibres made from natural or synthetic minerals or metal oxides. The latter term is generally used to refer solely to synthetic materials including fibreglass, ceramic fibres and rock or stone wool. Industrial applications of mineral wool include thermal insulation, filtration, soundproofing, and germination of seedlings." (END SNIP) READ DOWN FURTHER IN THE WIKIPEDIA ARTICLE ABOUT SAFETY ISSUES. There is also a green foam that is used in flower shops but I believe that is probably pretty inert and benign also. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Amber Berglund Sent: Friday, October 23, 2009 11:32 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: Potted plants It should stay put, especially if it's mostly buried, or fully buried, it won't disintegrate. Amber Lainey Alexander wrote: > > > Joe - > > Will the rockwool disintegrate and end up going all over the tank, or > will it stay put in the gravel? > > Lainey > http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com > <http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com> > > On Oct 23, 2009, at 5:51 PM, jett07002 wrote: > > > > > I would not be so quick to pull the roots from the rock wool. It > > would do more harm than good. I just take as much rock wool away > > from mine as I can do without damaging the roots and then just > > spread the roots and rock wool as best you can and cover it with > > your substrate. Much easier and you will not see the rock wool. > > > > joe t.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 44012	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 10/24/2009
Subject: Re: Mollie's sore eye

Lisa, So, the actual eye is not involved, the affected area appear to be primarily physically above the eye itself. The fish is active and feeding well. You did not mention the condition of the whitish area mentioned in your initial post--is it smooth, like part of the fish, or is it fuzzy? Also, does the fish appear to be hiding the affected area, or does it show both sides of its body about equally? I am, like Lenny, a bit confused about your ammonia reading. Is it 0.2 or 0.5? It should be 0. \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Lenny V. aka GoldLenny Sent: Saturday, October 24, 2009 3:05 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: Mollie's sore eye It's quite common for dalmation mollies to change colors. This is due to the inbreeding that is done to create their unusual coloration. The same thing happens with fancy goldfish. Many people buy "Black Moors" and as they mature, they go from black to brown and gold to fully gold. Usually, only the more expensive breeds of these fancy fish are bred with enough purity where they will maintain their coloration. The ones we buy at our LFS and pet stores are usually bulk bred so they have more of the color qualities of mutts than carefully inbred color variants or pure-bred fish. It could have been exacerbated by being kept singly but it likely would have happened regardless. None of my fancy goldfish look anything like they did when I first got them... except the calico's are still calico, just their spots are in different places now. When I was talking about the fish poop, I wasn't worried as much about constipation as I was diarrhea or long stringy whitish colored poop, which would be more indicative of internal issues. Since it seems to be eating OK and not being picked on or hiding, that is good Do you have any medicated fish food? Jungle Brand makes an antibacterial medicated fish food that actually has some decent ingredients in it. I'm not sure if that brand is available down under. If it is, you could try getting that food to the mollie and the unmedicated food to the other fish. This would be difficult without isolating the mollie but maybe you can figure out some way to lure the other fish away from the mollie while you feed it the medicated food. This would need to be fed for at least a week to 10 days. Of course, isolating the fish in the floating net would also give you the opportunity to see if it is putting out normal fish poop or not. Maybe, even without using the medicated food, you could isolate the fish in the floating net for at least 24 hours just to be able to observe its poop and let us know if it is normal or not. If the poop is normal, then that would help steer the diagnosis towards an injury instead of internal bacterial issues but if the poop indicates abnormality, then you could continue treatment with the medicated food in the isolation net. What kind/brand of test kit do you use? I remember in the past that you would have ammonia readings and you are showing an ammonia reading now but you have both 0.02 and 0.05 so I'm not sure which number is correct.... or is the reading between these two numbers or what? Ammonia should ALWAYS be 0.00ppm but it could be your test kit or the color chart or something that is indicating this low level of ammonia... or are you using the SeaChem Ammonia alert meter? I seem to remember you are using that and if you are, let us know if the color is showing safe or what color/indication on the meter? If you are taking the color from the meter and translating it into numbers let us know this also since the SeaChem Ammonia Alert measures ammonia differently than most test kits. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Lisa Sent: Saturday, October 24, 2009 1:32 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Mollie's sore eye Okay. Well from your questions, and what I can physically observe.the puffyness/bubble seems to be around and over the eye like a dome, but not touching it. And there looks like there might be flakey scales underneath it...? He/she is not being bullied by it's tank mates, is eating as veraciously as the rest, and is not hiding or showing abnormal behavior. I have not seen it poop yet, but I doubt it's constipated. Swim bladder is not dysfunctional. And it is able to swim correctly, and find food easyly. Gills are clear. And fins in good condition I cleaned and did a pwc last night, as per usual. Other eye is unaffected I do not have a Q tank for lack of space atm. But I do have an isolation box that floats in the water. I could put it in there, but I do not want to cause unnecessary stress. So I am hesitant to medicate the whole tank, when the rest are healthy. Another side note, is that being a Dalmatian mollie, when I got it originally, I also had another mollie with it. It has since passed on. This one had an even coverage of black white spots, quite striking it was, but since it's friend died, it is now almost completely black. Water temp is - 25 - 26*, 77 - 78F PH - 7.0 KH - 35.8 NITERITE - 0 PPM NITERATE - 5.0 PPM AMONIA - 0.02, 0.05 LISA

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 44013	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 10/24/2009
Subject: Piranha-like Fish Found in Vermont River

http://www.wptz.com/news/21402071/detail.html A good reporting of the find, along with a warning not to place fish of any sort into local waters. \\Steve//

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 44014	From: Lisa	Date: 10/24/2009
Subject: Re: Mollie's sore eye

The amonia reading is closer to 0.02 The white stuff is kinda hard to tell if it's smooth or fuzzy, but i'd say more smooth. It shows both sides of it's body. Now, i have isolated it in the floating box, and on closer observation, it's poo is stringy and white. In the box, it's swimming can be described as 'weaving' or 'wriggleing' But still swims upright. Scales sre not pineconed, and gills still normal I will leave it in the box, overnight, (i'm about to go to bed) and check again in the morning Lisa ________________________ does the fish appear to be hiding the affected area, or does it show both sides of its body about equally?

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 44015	From: Lisa	Date: 10/24/2009
Subject: Re: Mollie's sore eye

I've never seen medicated food on the shelves, but to be honest I've never really looked for it. The test kits that I use, for the ammonia, is a broad spectrum `in tank' reader. The 0.02 and 0.05 reading I got is an `in between' reading, sorry but the colour is kinda between yellow (0.02) and green (0.05). I use the brand A.P.I for my KH readings, and `aquarium pharmaceuticals' for Niterite and Niterate readings. I'll look out for the medicated food next time I'm out, and I'll isolate the mollie to monitor it Lisa

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 44016	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 10/24/2009
Subject: Re: Mollie's sore eye

Lisa, At this point, I would follow Lenny's suggestion of medicated food as a course of treatment, along with a partial water change. Also add some salt to the tank at the rate of about 1 teaspoon per 5 gallons, unless you have any fish that are especially sensitive to salt. \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Lisa Sent: Saturday, October 24, 2009 7:33 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Mollie's sore eye The amonia reading is closer to 0.02 The white stuff is kinda hard to tell if it's smooth or fuzzy, but i'd say more smooth. It shows both sides of it's body. Now, i have isolated it in the floating box, and on closer observation, it's poo is stringy and white. In the box, it's swimming can be described as 'weaving' or 'wriggleing' But still swims upright. Scales sre not pineconed, and gills still normal I will leave it in the box, overnight, (i'm about to go to bed) and check again in the morning Lisa ________________________ does the fish appear to be hiding the affected area, or does it show both sides of its body about equally?

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 44017	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 10/24/2009
Subject: Bleached corals ruin fish camouflage

http://www.nature.com/news/2009/091021/full/news.2009.1023.html http://tinyurl.com/ykmtkhb Bleached corals ruin fish camouflage No hiding place from ecosystem collapse on the reef. Matt Kaplan Fish that usually camouflage themselves among colourful coral reefs are losing their ability to hide from predators as corals are bleached by Earth's acidifying oceans. Bleaching often leads to coral death, and is a stress response to two key factors: increasing ocean acidity, caused by uptake of carbon dioxide from the atmosphere, and a rise in ocean temperature. It's all too apparent that ecosystems near bleached corals tend to collapse, but the reasons why are not fully understood. Some ecologists speculate that fish in bleached reefs simply move to areas where corals are still healthy, . . . \\Steve//

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 44018	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 10/24/2009
Subject: Re: Potted plants

In my previous post, not included in this email thread, I said... "airborne... or in the case of an aquarium, water borne."... but I get your point. If disturbed, it seems that any broken micro fibers could still become water borne and potentially cause a problem or become an irritant to our fish's gills which could then lead to secondary gill infections. I realize this might be remote but if the stuff can be removed from the roots, it would probably be safer to remove it. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Steve Szabo Sent: Saturday, October 24, 2009 5:35 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: Potted plants Lenny, First, I do not know if the material that some aquatic plants are grown in is actually rock wool or if it is a synthetic like polyester. Second, the material is wet, making it highly unlikely that any fibers will become airborne which makes the warning posted moot. I take back my first point--see http://www.tropica.com/default.asp near the bottom of the page. Click on the link to learn how remove the plants from the material and how to plant. I was trying to look at some of their videos on YouTube, but there seems to be a problem with getting them to play. If you would like to try--they have several, just go to YouTube and enter "tropica", without the quotes, in the search field. \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Lenny V. aka GoldLenny Sent: Saturday, October 24, 2009 12:56 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: Potted plants Lainey, You initially said "foam" and I know a couple of other informed fish keepers said it was likely rock wool but you do need to verify this. I wasn't familiar with rock wool so I Googled it and there are several types but the three I read about all seem to be rather benign and should not break down since it's made by blowing a jet of steam through molten rock (BUT READ THE SAFETY PRECAUTIONS IN THE WIKIPEDIA ARTICLE). It can also be called Mineral Wool and is usually used in insulation (like fiberglass) but is also used as a plant rooting substrate. Here's a couple of definitions and the Wikipedia page... http://www.yourdictionary.com/rock-wool http://mw1.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/rockwool http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mineral_wool "Mineral wool, also known as mineral fibres or man-made mineral fibres are fibres made from natural or synthetic minerals or metal oxides. The latter term is generally used to refer solely to synthetic materials including fibreglass, ceramic fibres and rock or stone wool. Industrial applications of mineral wool include thermal insulation, filtration, soundproofing, and germination of seedlings." (END SNIP) READ DOWN FURTHER IN THE WIKIPEDIA ARTICLE ABOUT SAFETY ISSUES. There is also a green foam that is used in flower shops but I believe that is probably pretty inert and benign also. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Amber Berglund Sent: Friday, October 23, 2009 11:32 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: Potted plants It should stay put, especially if it's mostly buried, or fully buried, it won't disintegrate. Amber Lainey Alexander wrote: > > > Joe - > > Will the rockwool disintegrate and end up going all over the tank, or > will it stay put in the gravel? > > Lainey > http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com > <http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com> > > On Oct 23, 2009, at 5:51 PM, jett07002 wrote: > > > > > I would not be so quick to pull the roots from the rock wool. It > > would do more harm than good. I just take as much rock wool away > > from mine as I can do without damaging the roots and then just > > spread the roots and rock wool as best you can and cover it with > > your substrate. Much easier and you will not see the rock wool. > > > > joe t.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 44019	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 10/24/2009
Subject: Re: Piranha-like Fish Found in Vermont River

At least WPTZ didn't try to blame this on so-called global warming or so-called climate change like the media did in the UK when they found a tropical fish in one of their waterways. Personally, if I was ever duped into buying a BIG fish like a Pacu, once it got too large for my tanks... and if I could not rehome it properly, I would seriously have to consider making it dinner instead of illegally releasing it into the wild. Might I suggest this recipe... http://www.bigoven.com/121616-Paul-Prudhommes-Blackened-Redfish-recipe.html I bet a 15" Pacu would make for a nice meal for a family of four and a full grown Pacu at 36" would leave plenty of leftovers... or freeze the filets for future meals. ;-) Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Steve Szabo Sent: Saturday, October 24, 2009 6:03 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Piranha-like Fish Found in Vermont River http://www.wptz.com/news/21402071/detail.html A good reporting of the find, along with a warning not to place fish of any sort into local waters. \\Steve//

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 44020	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 10/24/2009
Subject: Re: Mollie's sore eye

You didn't give the brand name of the "in tank reader" for ammonia but out of the two brands that I have tested in the past (see my blog article), the SeaChem Alerts work MUCH better than the Mardel brand and the SeaChem alerts also last 3-6 times longer for around the same price. I would still only use these for a guide rather than an actual test... kind of like the dip sticks which can be used as a guide but if the dip sticks are showing something unusual, then the test should be done with a decent test kit. The API test kits are considered to be decent test kits. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Lisa Sent: Saturday, October 24, 2009 4:18 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Mollie's sore eye I've never seen medicated food on the shelves, but to be honest I've never really looked for it. The test kits that I use, for the ammonia, is a broad spectrum `in tank' reader. The 0.02 and 0.05 reading I got is an `in between' reading, sorry but the colour is kinda between yellow (0.02) and green (0.05). I use the brand A.P.I for my KH readings, and `aquarium pharmaceuticals' for Niterite and Niterate readings. I'll look out for the medicated food next time I'm out, and I'll isolate the mollie to monitor it Lisa

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 44021	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 10/24/2009
Subject: Pet Jellyfish

Anyone here have one or more? No? Well, now you can have that jellyfish you always wanted to keep. http://www.jellyfishfacts.net/pet-jellyfish.html \\Steve//

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 44022	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 10/24/2009
Subject: Re: Mollie's sore eye

Yep, with the stringy whitish colored fish poop.. which also indicates the possibility of an internal parasitic infection, you might want to get the Jungle Antibacterial Food and ALSO the Jungle Antiparasite Food and feed both. These are small pellet type foods so you might have to break the pellets a little for your mollie to be able to eat them, depending on the size of your mollie. Oftentimes, an internal parasitic issue will also lead to secondary bacterial infection since the parasites can leave small wounds in the digestive tract which can then become infected. The Pop-Eye is simply a visual symptom resulting from an internal bacterial infection. Keep a close eye on your other fish and be prepared to treat them if you observe this stringy poop issue with any of them. Let us know what other species of fish you have in the tank. You could start with the 1 teaspoon of salt per 5G (per \\Steve//) but you might have to go up even higher depending on what kind of fish you have. -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Steve Szabo Sent: Saturday, October 24, 2009 6:59 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: Mollie's sore eye Lisa, At this point, I would follow Lenny's suggestion of medicated food as a course of treatment, along with a partial water change. Also add some salt to the tank at the rate of about 1 teaspoon per 5 gallons, unless you have any fish that are especially sensitive to salt. \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Lisa Sent: Saturday, October 24, 2009 7:33 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Mollie's sore eye The amonia reading is closer to 0.02 The white stuff is kinda hard to tell if it's smooth or fuzzy, but i'd say more smooth. It shows both sides of it's body. Now, i have isolated it in the floating box, and on closer observation, it's poo is stringy and white. In the box, it's swimming can be described as 'weaving' or 'wriggleing' But still swims upright. Scales sre not pineconed, and gills still normal I will leave it in the box, overnight, (i'm about to go to bed) and check again in the morning Lisa ________________________ does the fish appear to be hiding the affected area, or does it show both sides of its body about equally?

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 44023	From: Gwydryn@aol.com	Date: 10/24/2009
Subject: Re: Pet Jellyfish

In a message dated 10/24/2009 10:04:33 A.M. Central Daylight Time, steve@... writes: Anyone here have one or more? No? Well, now you can have that jellyfish you always wanted to keep. _http://www.jellyfishttp://www.http://www.jelhttp_ (http://www.jellyfishfacts.net/pet-jellyfish.html) \\Steve// How thoughtful! they even included a cooking jellyfish section. Yeah, nothing is sacred here in the South! Enid "Life is not about waiting for the storms to pass...it's about learning how to dance in the rain." [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 44024	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 10/24/2009
Subject: Re: Piranha-like Fish Found in Vermont River

Lenny, Check out http://ezinearticles.com/?Preparing-Piranha:-Four-Delicious-Recipes-for-Adve nturesome-Eating&id=82857 Or http://tinyurl.com/3cw2bv For a couple of recipes that can be used with pacu--Piranha in Tomato Sauce, and Brazilian Piranha Soup. Then there is this: Barbecue pacu fish ribs (Aug. 17, 2009) For this signature dish, chef Carlos Barros of Quahog's Seafood Shack in Stone Harbor, N.J., marinates mild-flavored pacu fish ribs, in chipotle-orange barbecue sauce for about five hours. Then he grills the fish for about two and a half minutes per side and serves it with coconut rice. He purchases frozen pacu ribs from South America. The fish is a relative of the piranha with a primarily vegetarian diet. http://www.nrn.com/landingPage.aspx?menu_id=1390&coll_id=598&id=371342 (http://tinyurl.com/yjldx5t) for a picture. And, the last one from me (you can do your own Google search), from the Old Smokey Products Company is this one for Brazilian Fish Ribs Pacu bags for authentic carnaval style Ingredients * 2 tablespoons brown sugar * 2 teaspoons fresh ginger root, grated * 1/4 teaspoon cayenne pepper * 1/4 teaspoon ground clove * 1/2 teaspoon ground cinnamon * 1 teaspoon paprika * 1 teaspoon dried oregano * 2 teaspoons black pepper * 1 teaspoon salt * 2 limes, zested and juiced * 1 cup orange juice Directions Although nothing will match the marvelous Pacu Fish Ribs in Passion Fruit Sauce we had at the Wetiga Hotel in Bonito, South Pantanal, Brazil, we think this will come close. You may know this dish as Ventrecha. This is as it is known in the Mid-West part of Brazil, a region that includes the Federal District of Brasilia plus Goias, Mato Grosso, and Mato Grosso do Sul. We find that using Pacu for Brazilian style fish ribs is the only real option. Some recipes suggest using the Tambaqui fish, but sadly, this is yet another attempt to Americanize an authentic other-cultural experience. And it's not that authentic Pacu ribs aren't available. You can get them at one of our favorite importers: http://www.eurousa.net Ask for item 800032, in the 9 lb pack. This, like many other great food choices, requires planning. Mix together the brown sugar, ginger, cayenne, clove, cinnamon, paprika, oregano, pepper, salt, and lime zest; set aside. Squeeze the limes, and add the juice to the orange juice. Rub the ribs well with the spice mixture. Place into a glass baking dish, and pour in the juice, being careful not to wash off the spice mixture. After the ribs are coated, grill until done. \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Lenny V. aka GoldLenny Sent: Saturday, October 24, 2009 10:58 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Piranha-like Fish Found in Vermont River At least WPTZ didn't try to blame this on so-called global warming or so-called climate change like the media did in the UK when they found a tropical fish in one of their waterways. Personally, if I was ever duped into buying a BIG fish like a Pacu, once it got too large for my tanks... and if I could not rehome it properly, I would seriously have to consider making it dinner instead of illegally releasing it into the wild. Might I suggest this recipe... http://www.bigoven.com/121616-Paul-Prudhommes-Blackened-Redfish-recipe.html I bet a 15" Pacu would make for a nice meal for a family of four and a full grown Pacu at 36" would leave plenty of leftovers... or freeze the filets for future meals. ;-) Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Steve Szabo Sent: Saturday, October 24, 2009 6:03 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Piranha-like Fish Found in Vermont River http://www.wptz.com/news/21402071/detail.html A good reporting of the find, along with a warning not to place fish of any sort into local waters. \\Steve//

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 44025	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 10/24/2009
Subject: Re: Pet Jellyfish

Enid, See the barbeque pacu ribs recipe posted a few moments ago in reply to Lenny. \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Gwydryn@... Sent: Saturday, October 24, 2009 11:13 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Pet Jellyfish In a message dated 10/24/2009 10:04:33 A.M. Central Daylight Time, steve@... writes: Anyone here have one or more? No? Well, now you can have that jellyfish you always wanted to keep. _http://www.jellyfishttp://www.http://www.jelhttp_ (http://www.jellyfishfacts.net/pet-jellyfish.html) \\Steve// How thoughtful! they even included a cooking jellyfish section. Yeah, nothing is sacred here in the South! Enid "Life is not about waiting for the storms to pass...it's about learning how to dance in the rain." [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] ------------------------------------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. 74/`7.88.><((((:>.74/`7.88.74/`7.8><((((:> 8.74/`7.8. , .74/`7..><((((:> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <:((((><.74/`7.88.74/`7.8<:((((><8.74/`7.8. , .74/`7..<:((((><74/`7.88. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the home page. Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com to receive the digest, which includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com for the No E-Mail option where you will still be able to read messages on the group and post replies. Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com to receive individual e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 44026	From: Lainey Alexander	Date: 10/24/2009
Subject: Tank pictures

Hi Everyone - I took a picture of my tank after a 25% water change before it turns green or yellow again:) Comments welcome...  Lainey http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 44027	From: Lainey Alexander	Date: 10/24/2009
Subject: Re: Tank pictures

Oh, I see that my picture did not come through... Lainey http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com On Oct 24, 2009, at 4:52 PM, Lainey Alexander wrote: > Hi Everyone - > > I took a picture of my tank after a 25% water change before it turns > green or yellow again:) > > Comments welcome... > >  > > Lainey > http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 44028	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 10/24/2009
Subject: Re: Potted plants

I've bought plenty of plants off of the internet and most of them come in little plastic pots with rock wool for the roots to grow in. Some plants have very thin and easy to break roots (such as dwarf baby tears), and are very hard to remove from the rock wool and you can break more roots than you save in the long term. When I came across this issue I ended up just planting the chunk of rock wool into my tank, but the dwarf baby tears died anyways (they are very hard to get growing well without CO2 and other nutrients, as well as lots of light from what I've read), so I gave up on the dwarf baby tears. But my point is this: the rock wool never fell apart in my fish tank, a little was above the surface of the gravel but didn't flake apart or float away. The fish ignored it as well, probably because it was close to the same color as my gravel in my fish tank. I pulled the rock wool out when the plant died and it still came out in one large piece. A lot of aquatic plants come in rock wool, especially if they came from a bulk plant grower (such as in florida). Amber Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > > > In my previous post, not included in this email thread, I said... > "airborne... or in the case of an aquarium, water borne."... but I get > your > point. If disturbed, it seems that any broken micro fibers could still > become water borne and potentially cause a problem or become an > irritant to > our fish's gills which could then lead to secondary gill infections. I > realize this might be remote but if the stuff can be removed from the > roots, > it would probably be safer to remove it. > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right > side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On > Behalf Of Steve Szabo > Sent: Saturday, October 24, 2009 5:35 AM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: Potted plants > > Lenny, > > First, I do not know if the material that some aquatic plants are grown in > is actually rock wool or if it is a synthetic like polyester. Second, the > material is wet, making it highly unlikely that any fibers will become > airborne which makes the warning posted moot. > > I take back my first point--see http://www.tropica.com/default.asp > <http://www.tropica.com/default.asp> near the > bottom of the page. Click on the link to learn how remove the plants from > the material and how to plant. > > I was trying to look at some of their videos on YouTube, but there > seems to > be a problem with getting them to play. If you would like to try--they > have > several, just go to YouTube and enter "tropica", without the quotes, > in the > search field. > > \\Steve// > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On > Behalf Of Lenny V. aka GoldLenny > Sent: Saturday, October 24, 2009 12:56 AM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: Potted plants > > Lainey, > > You initially said "foam" and I know a couple of other informed fish > keepers > said it was likely rock wool but you do need to verify this. > > I wasn't familiar with rock wool so I Googled it and there are several > types > but the three I read about all seem to be rather benign and should not > break > down since it's made by blowing a jet of steam through molten rock > (BUT READ > THE SAFETY PRECAUTIONS IN THE WIKIPEDIA ARTICLE). It can also be called > Mineral Wool and is usually used in insulation (like fiberglass) but > is also > used as a plant rooting substrate. > > Here's a couple of definitions and the Wikipedia page... > > http://www.yourdictionary.com/rock-wool > <http://www.yourdictionary.com/rock-wool> > > http://mw1.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/rockwool > <http://mw1.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/rockwool> > > http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mineral_wool > <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mineral_wool> > "Mineral wool, also known as mineral fibres or man-made mineral fibres are > fibres made from natural or synthetic minerals or metal oxides. The latter > term is generally used to refer solely to synthetic materials including > fibreglass, ceramic fibres and rock or stone wool. Industrial applications > of mineral wool include thermal insulation, filtration, soundproofing, and > germination of seedlings." (END SNIP) > > READ DOWN FURTHER IN THE WIKIPEDIA ARTICLE ABOUT SAFETY ISSUES. > > There is also a green foam that is used in flower shops but I believe that > is probably pretty inert and benign also. > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> (Links to any articles referenced > in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under > Labels and > also under Archives by Year, Month) > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On > Behalf Of Amber Berglund > Sent: Friday, October 23, 2009 11:32 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: Potted plants > > It should stay put, especially if it's mostly buried, or fully buried, it > won't disintegrate. > > Amber > > Lainey Alexander wrote: > > > > > > Joe - > > > > Will the rockwool disintegrate and end up going all over the tank, or > > will it stay put in the gravel? > > > > Lainey > > http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com <http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com> > > <http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com > <http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com>> > > > > On Oct 23, 2009, at 5:51 PM, jett07002 wrote: > > > > > > > > I would not be so quick to pull the roots from the rock wool. It > > > would do more harm than good. I just take as much rock wool away > > > from mine as I can do without damaging the roots and then just > > > spread the roots and rock wool as best you can and cover it with > > > your substrate. Much easier and you will not see the rock wool. > > > > > > joe t. > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 44029	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 10/24/2009
Subject: Re: Tank pictures

The group does not accept pictures, but you can upload it to the group photo's section on the website and put in a link in your post so people can know where to find your picture :) Amber Lainey Alexander wrote: > > > Oh, I see that my picture did not come through... > > Lainey > http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com <http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com> > > On Oct 24, 2009, at 4:52 PM, Lainey Alexander wrote: > > > Hi Everyone - > > > > I took a picture of my tank after a 25% water change before it turns > > green or yellow again:) > > > > Comments welcome... > > > >  > > > > Lainey > > http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com <http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com> > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 44030	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 10/24/2009
Subject: Re: Tank pictures

They're approved now... in the "Lainey" album. Here's the link to you folder for future reference. http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife/photos/album/2049115566/pic/list Looking good! Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Amber Berglund Sent: Saturday, October 24, 2009 4:27 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Tank pictures The group does not accept pictures, but you can upload it to the group photo's section on the website and put in a link in your post so people can know where to find your picture :) Amber Lainey Alexander wrote: > > > Oh, I see that my picture did not come through... > > Lainey > http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com > <http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com> > > On Oct 24, 2009, at 4:52 PM, Lainey Alexander wrote: > > > Hi Everyone - > > > > I took a picture of my tank after a 25% water change before it turns > > green or yellow again:) > > > > Comments welcome... > > > > > > > > Lainey > > http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com > > <http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com>

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 44031	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 10/24/2009
Subject: Re: Tank pictures

Lainey, I see they are up now. One quick question. Is that a jailhouse window in the background? <gd&r> \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Lainey Alexander Sent: Saturday, October 24, 2009 5:15 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Tank pictures Oh, I see that my picture did not come through... Lainey http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com On Oct 24, 2009, at 4:52 PM, Lainey Alexander wrote: > Hi Everyone - > > I took a picture of my tank after a 25% water change before it turns > green or yellow again:) > > Comments welcome... > >  > > Lainey > http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 44032	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 10/24/2009
Subject: Fish Fingers--_Pesci digit_ Shown at London Aquarium

http://newslite.tv/2009/10/13/swimming-fish-fingers-released.html \\Steve//

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 44033	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 10/24/2009
Subject: Fish eating worm invades aquarium

Video at http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/england/humber/8318980.stm \\Steve//

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 44034	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 10/24/2009
Subject: Re: Fish Fingers--_Pesci digit_ Shown at London Aquarium

I like mine with ketchup and a Coke.... not into tea too much. Oh yeah... and in my tank, we have a slightly different species called Fish Sticks (Pesci stickii). Now if I could only get them to breed and jump right into the oven! ;-) Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Steve Szabo Sent: Saturday, October 24, 2009 5:48 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Fish Fingers--_Pesci digit_ Shown at London Aquarium http://newslite.tv/2009/10/13/swimming-fish-fingers-released.html \\Steve//

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 44035	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 10/24/2009
Subject: Re: Fish eating worm invades aquarium

That link was to what looked like the right page but the video was only a commercial. At the bottom of the text below the video, there was this link which was to another video of the Fish eating worm. http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/england/humber/8318323.stm This is not to be confused with the *pianist* eating worm from an earlier post. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Steve Szabo Sent: Saturday, October 24, 2009 5:51 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Fish eating worm invades aquarium Video at http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/england/humber/8318980.stm \\Steve//

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 44036	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 10/24/2009
Subject: Re: Fish eating worm invades aquarium

Oooops.. ignore my earlier reply. This is the same worm, aka the Bobbitt Worm, nicknamed after Lorena Bobbitt. OUCH!!! Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Steve Szabo Sent: Saturday, October 24, 2009 5:51 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Fish eating worm invades aquarium Video at http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/england/humber/8318980.stm \\Steve//

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 44037	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 10/24/2009
Subject: PFK Online - Possible role of bristlenose tentacles revealed

For all you BN Pleco owners... http://www.practicalfishkeeping.co.uk/pfk/pages/item.php?news=2263 And for an in-depth discussion of this article by some VERY knowledgeable catfish aficionados ... http://www.planetcatfish.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=14&t=27530 Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month)

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 44038	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 10/24/2009
Subject: Re: Fish eating worm invades aquarium

Lenny, The link I provided was just a short video of the worm in a tank. The link you provided started out with a commercial, then showed the same video. However, the interesting thing is that they are the same link, go figure. \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Lenny V. aka GoldLenny Sent: Saturday, October 24, 2009 9:22 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Fish eating worm invades aquarium That link was to what looked like the right page but the video was only a commercial. At the bottom of the text below the video, there was this link which was to another video of the Fish eating worm. http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/england/humber/8318323.stm This is not to be confused with the *pianist* eating worm from an earlier post. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Steve Szabo Sent: Saturday, October 24, 2009 5:51 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Fish eating worm invades aquarium Video at http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/england/humber/8318980.stm \\Steve// ------------------------------------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. 74/`7.88.><((((:>.74/`7.88.74/`7.8><((((:> 8.74/`7.8. , .74/`7..><((((:> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <:((((><.74/`7.88.74/`7.8<:((((><8.74/`7.8. , .74/`7..<:((((><74/`7.88. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the home page. Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com to receive the digest, which includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com for the No E-Mail option where you will still be able to read messages on the group and post replies. Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com to receive individual e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 44039	From: Lainey Alexander	Date: 10/24/2009
Subject: Re: Tank pictures

well, yes, that is my 18 by 5 by 8 foot finch aviary:) Lainey http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com On Oct 24, 2009, at 6:42 PM, Steve Szabo wrote: > Lainey, > > I see they are up now. One quick question. Is that a jailhouse > window in the background? <gd&r> > > \\Steve// > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Lainey Alexander > Sent: Saturday, October 24, 2009 5:15 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Tank pictures > > Oh, I see that my picture did not come through... > > Lainey > http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com > > On Oct 24, 2009, at 4:52 PM, Lainey Alexander wrote: > > > Hi Everyone - > > > > I took a picture of my tank after a 25% water change before it turns > > green or yellow again:) > > > > Comments welcome... > > > >  > > > > Lainey > > http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 44040	From: Lisa	Date: 10/25/2009
Subject: Re: Mollie's sore eye

I went in to my LFS yesterday, and explained the symptoms. And he told me that the medicated food was expensive and hard to get a hold of. So he gave me some tabs to dissolve in the water, to medicate the whole tank. The tabs are supposed to treat fluke or tapeworm. Over the last 12 or so hours, I have closely watched not only the visually affected molly, but also the entire tank. Happy to report that I have already noticed a difference with the molly. It's poo is now more solid looking and is an orange/brown colour. But it's eye is still the same. I have still kept it in the isolation box, just to keep an eye on it for another day or so. But here's hoping that I have gotten on top of this, what ever it may have been. Lisa --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@...> wrote: > > Yep, with the stringy whitish colored fish poop.. which also indicates the > possibility of an internal parasitic infection, you might want to get the > Jungle Antibacterial Food and ALSO the Jungle Antiparasite Food and feed > both. These are small pellet type foods so you might have to break the > pellets a little for your mollie to be able to eat them, depending on the > size of your mollie. Oftentimes, an internal parasitic issue will also lead > to secondary bacterial infection since the parasites can leave small wounds > in the digestive tract which can then become infected. The Pop-Eye is > simply a visual symptom resulting from an internal bacterial infection. > > Keep a close eye on your other fish and be prepared to treat them if you > observe this stringy poop issue with any of them. > > Let us know what other species of fish you have in the tank. You could > start with the 1 teaspoon of salt per 5G (per \\Steve//) but you might have > to go up even higher depending on what kind of fish you have. > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On > Behalf Of Steve Szabo > Sent: Saturday, October 24, 2009 6:59 AM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: Mollie's sore eye > > Lisa, > > At this point, I would follow Lenny's suggestion of medicated food as a > course of treatment, along with a partial water change. Also add some salt > to the tank at the rate of about 1 teaspoon per 5 gallons, unless you have > any fish that are especially sensitive to salt. > > \\Steve// > > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On > Behalf Of Lisa > Sent: Saturday, October 24, 2009 7:33 AM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Mollie's sore eye > > The amonia reading is closer to 0.02 > The white stuff is kinda hard to tell if it's smooth or fuzzy, but i'd say > more smooth. > It shows both sides of it's body. > Now, i have isolated it in the floating box, and on closer observation, it's > poo is stringy and white. > In the box, it's swimming can be described as 'weaving' or 'wriggleing' > But still swims upright. > Scales sre not pineconed, and gills still normal > > I will leave it in the box, overnight, (i'm about to go to bed) and check > again in the morning > > Lisa > ________________________ > does the fish appear to be hiding the affected area, or does it show both > sides of its body about equally? >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 44041	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 10/25/2009
Subject: Re: Mollie's sore eye

The packaging should list the active ingredient(s). If you could let us know what they are, we can get specific about what the drug actually does. \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Lisa Sent: Sunday, October 25, 2009 6:00 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Mollie's sore eye I went in to my LFS yesterday, and explained the symptoms. And he told me that the medicated food was expensive and hard to get a hold of. So he gave me some tabs to dissolve in the water, to medicate the whole tank. The tabs are supposed to treat fluke or tapeworm. Over the last 12 or so hours, I have closely watched not only the visually affected molly, but also the entire tank. Happy to report that I have already noticed a difference with the molly. It's poo is now more solid looking and is an orange/brown colour. But it's eye is still the same. I have still kept it in the isolation box, just to keep an eye on it for another day or so. But here's hoping that I have gotten on top of this, what ever it may have been. Lisa --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@...> wrote: > > Yep, with the stringy whitish colored fish poop.. which also indicates the > possibility of an internal parasitic infection, you might want to get the > Jungle Antibacterial Food and ALSO the Jungle Antiparasite Food and feed > both. These are small pellet type foods so you might have to break the > pellets a little for your mollie to be able to eat them, depending on the > size of your mollie. Oftentimes, an internal parasitic issue will also lead > to secondary bacterial infection since the parasites can leave small wounds > in the digestive tract which can then become infected. The Pop-Eye is > simply a visual symptom resulting from an internal bacterial infection. > > Keep a close eye on your other fish and be prepared to treat them if you > observe this stringy poop issue with any of them. > > Let us know what other species of fish you have in the tank. You could > start with the 1 teaspoon of salt per 5G (per \\Steve//) but you might have > to go up even higher depending on what kind of fish you have. > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On > Behalf Of Steve Szabo > Sent: Saturday, October 24, 2009 6:59 AM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: Mollie's sore eye > > Lisa, > > At this point, I would follow Lenny's suggestion of medicated food as a > course of treatment, along with a partial water change. Also add some salt > to the tank at the rate of about 1 teaspoon per 5 gallons, unless you have > any fish that are especially sensitive to salt. > > \\Steve// > > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On > Behalf Of Lisa > Sent: Saturday, October 24, 2009 7:33 AM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Mollie's sore eye > > The amonia reading is closer to 0.02 > The white stuff is kinda hard to tell if it's smooth or fuzzy, but i'd say > more smooth. > It shows both sides of it's body. > Now, i have isolated it in the floating box, and on closer observation, it's > poo is stringy and white. > In the box, it's swimming can be described as 'weaving' or 'wriggleing' > But still swims upright. > Scales sre not pineconed, and gills still normal > > I will leave it in the box, overnight, (i'm about to go to bed) and check > again in the morning > > Lisa > ________________________ > does the fish appear to be hiding the affected area, or does it show both > sides of its body about equally? >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 44042	From: Lisa	Date: 10/25/2009
Subject: Re: Mollie's sore eye

He didn't give them to me in a container. They were in a zip lock bag (baggie?) So i don't know what the active ingrediants are/ Lisa ___________ --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Steve Szabo" <steve@...> wrote: > > The packaging should list the active ingredient(s). If you could let us know > what they are, we can get specific about what the drug actually does. > > \\Steve// > > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On > Behalf Of Lisa > Sent: Sunday, October 25, 2009 6:00 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Mollie's sore eye > > I went in to my LFS yesterday, and explained the symptoms. > And he told me that the medicated food was expensive and hard to get a hold > of. > So he gave me some tabs to dissolve in the water, to medicate the whole > tank. The tabs are supposed to treat fluke or tapeworm. > Over the last 12 or so hours, I have closely watched not only the visually > affected molly, but also the entire tank. > > Happy to report that I have already noticed a difference with the molly. > It's poo is now more solid looking and is an orange/brown colour. But it's > eye is still the same. > I have still kept it in the isolation box, just to keep an eye on it for > another day or so. But here's hoping that I have gotten on top of this, what > ever it may have been. > > Lisa > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@> > wrote: > > > > Yep, with the stringy whitish colored fish poop.. which also indicates the > > possibility of an internal parasitic infection, you might want to get the > > Jungle Antibacterial Food and ALSO the Jungle Antiparasite Food and feed > > both. These are small pellet type foods so you might have to break the > > pellets a little for your mollie to be able to eat them, depending on the > > size of your mollie. Oftentimes, an internal parasitic issue will also > lead > > to secondary bacterial infection since the parasites can leave small > wounds > > in the digestive tract which can then become infected. The Pop-Eye is > > simply a visual symptom resulting from an internal bacterial infection. > > > > Keep a close eye on your other fish and be prepared to treat them if you > > observe this stringy poop issue with any of them. > > > > Let us know what other species of fish you have in the tank. You could > > start with the 1 teaspoon of salt per 5G (per \\Steve//) but you might > have > > to go up even higher depending on what kind of fish you have. > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On > > Behalf Of Steve Szabo > > Sent: Saturday, October 24, 2009 6:59 AM > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: Mollie's sore eye > > > > Lisa, > > > > At this point, I would follow Lenny's suggestion of medicated food as a > > course of treatment, along with a partial water change. Also add some salt > > to the tank at the rate of about 1 teaspoon per 5 gallons, unless you have > > any fish that are especially sensitive to salt. > > > > \\Steve// > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On > > Behalf Of Lisa > > Sent: Saturday, October 24, 2009 7:33 AM > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Mollie's sore eye > > > > The amonia reading is closer to 0.02 > > The white stuff is kinda hard to tell if it's smooth or fuzzy, but i'd say > > more smooth. > > It shows both sides of it's body. > > Now, i have isolated it in the floating box, and on closer observation, > it's > > poo is stringy and white. > > In the box, it's swimming can be described as 'weaving' or 'wriggleing' > > But still swims upright. > > Scales sre not pineconed, and gills still normal > > > > I will leave it in the box, overnight, (i'm about to go to bed) and check > > again in the morning > > > > Lisa > > ________________________ > > does the fish appear to be hiding the affected area, or does it show both > > sides of its body about equally? > > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 44043	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 10/25/2009
Subject: Re: Mollie's sore eye

Just work hard to keep the water quality in excellent shape. The anti-parasite pill that your LFS gave you will probably help with the likely internal parasites but the Pop-Eye is still indicating that there is an internal bacterial infection as well. Maybe, once the parasites are controlled, the fish's own immune system will be strong enough to handle the bacterial issue on its own but if now, you will still have that issue to deal with. Keeping the water in excellent condition will further help ALL of your fishes abilities to ward off disease. Water quality issues are the number one issue that causes fish stress and then when fish get stressed, their immune systems falter and one or more will succumb to a disease that they would normally be able to resist. It's a shame some other industrialized countries like Australia and the UK, that I know of, do not allow very many pet meds to be purchased by consumers. I guess your local veterinarians hire better lobbyists than ours do here in the States. We can buy stuff right off the shelf, for our pets, that we would need prescriptions for as humans. I'm not sure this is the completely right way either but it sure makes it easier for us to treat our fish... although some folks go overboard with the antibiotics since they are so easy to purchase. On a side note, I actually order some dog meds, like Heartguard Plus, from PetShed.com, which is down in Australia, as they let me buy the medicated things that they sell, without a prescription. It's easy enough for me to get a prescription but my vet will only give me the *proper* prescription for a 25-50 pound dog which costs around $33.00 for six monthly chewables. I order the monthly chewables for a 50-100 pound dog from PetShed.com, and I do not need a prescription, and pay just a few dollars more and then I cut the chewables in half so a six month supply lasts me a year for a just a few more dollars. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Lisa Sent: Sunday, October 25, 2009 5:00 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Mollie's sore eye I went in to my LFS yesterday, and explained the symptoms. And he told me that the medicated food was expensive and hard to get a hold of. So he gave me some tabs to dissolve in the water, to medicate the whole tank. The tabs are supposed to treat fluke or tapeworm. Over the last 12 or so hours, I have closely watched not only the visually affected molly, but also the entire tank. Happy to report that I have already noticed a difference with the molly. It's poo is now more solid looking and is an orange/brown colour. But it's eye is still the same. I have still kept it in the isolation box, just to keep an eye on it for another day or so. But here's hoping that I have gotten on top of this, what ever it may have been. Lisa --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@...> wrote: > > Yep, with the stringy whitish colored fish poop.. which also indicates > the possibility of an internal parasitic infection, you might want to > get the Jungle Antibacterial Food and ALSO the Jungle Antiparasite > Food and feed both. These are small pellet type foods so you might > have to break the pellets a little for your mollie to be able to eat > them, depending on the size of your mollie. Oftentimes, an internal > parasitic issue will also lead to secondary bacterial infection since > the parasites can leave small wounds in the digestive tract which can > then become infected. The Pop-Eye is simply a visual symptom resulting from an internal bacterial infection. > > Keep a close eye on your other fish and be prepared to treat them if > you observe this stringy poop issue with any of them. > > Let us know what other species of fish you have in the tank. You > could start with the 1 teaspoon of salt per 5G (per \\Steve//) but you > might have to go up even higher depending on what kind of fish you have. > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] > On Behalf Of Steve Szabo > Sent: Saturday, October 24, 2009 6:59 AM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: Mollie's sore eye > > Lisa, > > At this point, I would follow Lenny's suggestion of medicated food as > a course of treatment, along with a partial water change. Also add > some salt to the tank at the rate of about 1 teaspoon per 5 gallons, > unless you have any fish that are especially sensitive to salt. > > \\Steve// > > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] > On Behalf Of Lisa > Sent: Saturday, October 24, 2009 7:33 AM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Mollie's sore eye > > The amonia reading is closer to 0.02 > The white stuff is kinda hard to tell if it's smooth or fuzzy, but i'd > say more smooth. > It shows both sides of it's body. > Now, i have isolated it in the floating box, and on closer > observation, it's poo is stringy and white. > In the box, it's swimming can be described as 'weaving' or 'wriggleing' > But still swims upright. > Scales sre not pineconed, and gills still normal > > I will leave it in the box, overnight, (i'm about to go to bed) and > check again in the morning > > Lisa > ________________________ > does the fish appear to be hiding the affected area, or does it show > both sides of its body about equally? > ------------------------------------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the home page. Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com to receive the digest, which includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com for the No E-Mail option where you will still be able to read messages on the group and post replies. Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com to receive individual e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 44044	From: Kathy	Date: 10/26/2009
Subject: can walk again, ergo I'm starting to set up my betta bowl

I'm allowed to do a little walking now! So I can get my fishbowl set up! Yes I know I'm a wimp not wanting to get my fish until the docs gave me the ok to walk, some of you have maintained large tanks while on crutches. To remind you folks why I couldn't walk, I had surgery on my foot to repair a Jones' fracture (google it) and wasn't allowed to walk between September 4th and October 20. To remind you folks why I'm getting a fishbowl, my residince hall at school will only allow a fish in a bowl, no aquariums, and nothing electric (e.g. filter or heater) in the bowl. Something about aquariums busting easier and making more of a mess. I've got substrate (glass pebbles) and a little cave in there already (Lenny suggested something for the fish to hide in, so I got the little cave...don't worry, all the holes are big enough for a betta). I will get some live plants and set everything up, then I will wait a few days for the water to get high quality from the plants being in there. After that, I'll call Walmart and ask when their next betta shipment is. They get a shipment of live fish every Thursday, but not all of their shippments include bettas. How long should I wait between the shipment date and going to pick out a fish? I was thinking three days so that the fish can get over shipping stress but not have to spend too much time at Walmart. I've got the bowl about two and a half feet from a northwest facing window, there's some houseplants in between the window and the bowl so it only gets filtered sunlight. I've got a tray underneath to protect the bookcase it's on. My suitemates keep the thermostat at 75 degrees or higher because they're all considerably thinner than I am and therefore they get cold easily...I find myself getting way too hot in the suite because I'm overweight and therefore more insulated. So the room temperature should be fine for a betta if the water temp approximately matches the room temp, right? Is the location of the bowl ok? Anyway, just wanted to share the good news! -Kathy

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 44045	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 10/26/2009
Subject: Re: can walk again, ergo I'm starting to set up my betta bowl

Glad to hear you're up and around again, I went stir crazy when I had a fractured wrist and didn't leave the house for over 8 weeks except to go to the doctor for checkups. One thing you're going to want to do is get live plants around the same time you get your betta, otherwise there won't be anything in the water to feed the plants and they will start to die off. Unless you want to get a little bottle of ammonia and start feeding the water before you add the plants, that will start the cycle in your bowl as well, but then you will have to test the water before you add the betta (make sure the ammonia/nitrite/nitrate is not too high for him). It would really be easier to just get the plants and the betta on the same day. You will also probably want to clean your plants fairly well (which means dipping them to clean them). I cannot remember the bleach ratio so I don't want to give bad info, but I'm sure Lenny or someone else out there will know it. The last time I got plants I didn't bleach dip them and ended up with tons of pest snails that I wish would go away now ;) Amber Kathy wrote: > > > I'm allowed to do a little walking now! So I can get my fishbowl set > up! Yes I know I'm a wimp not wanting to get my fish until the docs > gave me the ok to walk, some of you have maintained large tanks while > on crutches. To remind you folks why I couldn't walk, I had surgery on > my foot to repair a Jones' fracture (google it) and wasn't allowed to > walk between September 4th and October 20. To remind you folks why I'm > getting a fishbowl, my residince hall at school will only allow a fish > in a bowl, no aquariums, and nothing electric (e.g. filter or heater) > in the bowl. Something about aquariums busting easier and making more > of a mess. I've got substrate (glass pebbles) and a little cave in > there already (Lenny suggested something for the fish to hide in, so I > got the little cave...don't worry, all the holes are big enough for a > betta). I will get some live plants and set everything up, then I will > wait a few days for the water to get high quality from the plants > being in there. After that, I'll call Walmart and ask when their next > betta shipment is. They get a shipment of live fish every Thursday, > but not all of their shippments include bettas. How long should I wait > between the shipment date and going to pick out a fish? I was thinking > three days so that the fish can get over shipping stress but not have > to spend too much time at Walmart. > I've got the bowl about two and a half feet from a northwest facing > window, there's some houseplants in between the window and the bowl so > it only gets filtered sunlight. I've got a tray underneath to protect > the bookcase it's on. My suitemates keep the thermostat at 75 degrees > or higher because they're all considerably thinner than I am and > therefore they get cold easily...I find myself getting way too hot in > the suite because I'm overweight and therefore more insulated. So the > room temperature should be fine for a betta if the water temp > approximately matches the room temp, right? Is the location of the > bowl ok? > Anyway, just wanted to share the good news! > -Kathy > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 44046	From: Kathy	Date: 10/26/2009
Subject: Re: can walk again, ergo I'm starting to set up my betta bowl

Oh, I hadn't realized that. Maybe I should just wait two or three days after getting the plants? I have water purifier if that's what you mean. I'm going to put that in when I set up the plants. One snail might not be a problem, I would welcome not having to scrub the sides of the fishbowl, but I understand how an infestation is a major problem. So I'll ask Lenny how to prepare the plants to kill any snail eggs that might be there. -Kathy --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, Amber Berglund <arberglund@...> wrote: > > Glad to hear you're up and around again, I went stir crazy when I had a > fractured wrist and didn't leave the house for over 8 weeks except to go > to the doctor for checkups. > One thing you're going to want to do is get live plants around the same > time you get your betta, otherwise there won't be anything in the water > to feed the plants and they will start to die off. > Unless you want to get a little bottle of ammonia and start feeding the > water before you add the plants, that will start the cycle in your bowl > as well, but then you will have to test the water before you add the > betta (make sure the ammonia/nitrite/nitrate is not too high for him). > It would really be easier to just get the plants and the betta on the > same day. You will also probably want to clean your plants fairly well > (which means dipping them to clean them). I cannot remember the bleach > ratio so I don't want to give bad info, but I'm sure Lenny or someone > else out there will know it. The last time I got plants I didn't bleach > dip them and ended up with tons of pest snails that I wish would go away > now ;) > > Amber > > Kathy wrote: > > > > > > I'm allowed to do a little walking now! So I can get my fishbowl set > > up! Yes I know I'm a wimp not wanting to get my fish until the docs > > gave me the ok to walk, some of you have maintained large tanks while > > on crutches. To remind you folks why I couldn't walk, I had surgery on > > my foot to repair a Jones' fracture (google it) and wasn't allowed to > > walk between September 4th and October 20. To remind you folks why I'm > > getting a fishbowl, my residince hall at school will only allow a fish > > in a bowl, no aquariums, and nothing electric (e.g. filter or heater) > > in the bowl. Something about aquariums busting easier and making more > > of a mess. I've got substrate (glass pebbles) and a little cave in > > there already (Lenny suggested something for the fish to hide in, so I > > got the little cave...don't worry, all the holes are big enough for a > > betta). I will get some live plants and set everything up, then I will > > wait a few days for the water to get high quality from the plants > > being in there. After that, I'll call Walmart and ask when their next > > betta shipment is. They get a shipment of live fish every Thursday, > > but not all of their shippments include bettas. How long should I wait > > between the shipment date and going to pick out a fish? I was thinking > > three days so that the fish can get over shipping stress but not have > > to spend too much time at Walmart. > > I've got the bowl about two and a half feet from a northwest facing > > window, there's some houseplants in between the window and the bowl so > > it only gets filtered sunlight. I've got a tray underneath to protect > > the bookcase it's on. My suitemates keep the thermostat at 75 degrees > > or higher because they're all considerably thinner than I am and > > therefore they get cold easily...I find myself getting way too hot in > > the suite because I'm overweight and therefore more insulated. So the > > room temperature should be fine for a betta if the water temp > > approximately matches the room temp, right? Is the location of the > > bowl ok? > > Anyway, just wanted to share the good news! > > -Kathy > > > > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 44047	From: Dora Smith	Date: 10/26/2009
Subject: Re: can walk again, ergo I'm starting to set up my betta bowl

Alright! Yours, Dora Smith Austin, TX tiggernut24@... ----- Original Message ----- From: "Kathy" <kl_whitney@...> To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Monday, October 26, 2009 5:20 AM Subject: [AquaticLife] can walk again, ergo I'm starting to set up my betta bowl I'm allowed to do a little walking now! So I can get my fishbowl set up! Yes I know I'm a wimp not wanting to get my fish until the docs gave me the ok to walk, some of you have maintained large tanks while on crutches. To remind you folks why I couldn't walk, I had surgery on my foot to repair a Jones' fracture (google it) and wasn't allowed to walk between September 4th and October 20. To remind you folks why I'm getting a fishbowl, my residince hall at school will only allow a fish in a bowl, no aquariums, and nothing electric (e.g. filter or heater) in the bowl. Something about aquariums busting easier and making more of a mess. I've got substrate (glass pebbles) and a little cave in there already (Lenny suggested something for the fish to hide in, so I got the little cave...don't worry, all the holes are big enough for a betta). I will get some live plants and set everything up, then I will wait a few days for the water to get high quality from the plants being in there. After that, I'll call Walmart and ask when their next betta shipment is. They get a shipment of live fish every Thursday, but not all of their shippments include bettas. How long should I wait between the shipment date and going to pick out a fish? I was thinking three days so that the fish can get over shipping stress but not have to spend too much time at Walmart. I've got the bowl about two and a half feet from a northwest facing window, there's some houseplants in between the window and the bowl so it only gets filtered sunlight. I've got a tray underneath to protect the bookcase it's on. My suitemates keep the thermostat at 75 degrees or higher because they're all considerably thinner than I am and therefore they get cold easily...I find myself getting way too hot in the suite because I'm overweight and therefore more insulated. So the room temperature should be fine for a betta if the water temp approximately matches the room temp, right? Is the location of the bowl ok? Anyway, just wanted to share the good news! -Kathy ------------------------------------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the home page. Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com to receive the digest, which includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com for the No E-Mail option where you will still be able to read messages on the group and post replies. Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com to receive individual e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 44048	From: gailsugarpants	Date: 10/26/2009
Subject: Severum Behavior

So my gold Severum has been acting funny and I wanted to see if anyone else here has seen this. At first, my Severum was hanging out, hiding under one of my rocks (near the edge of my tank where I could see it). Then, I did my weekly maintenance, vaccum gravel, water change etc. And my Severum will swim forward, then swim backwards - over and over. Back and forth in the same area. It seems unphased when I come up to the glass, or during feeding time. It just does the back and forth - forward & backwards... over and over. Is this some sign of illness, or mental illness? I dont' know. I just think it's weird. The only thing that has changed in my tank, is that my tank has recently started accumilating a green, hair like algae. tell me your thoughts and experiences thanks! Gail

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 44049	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 10/26/2009
Subject: Re: can walk again, ergo I'm starting to set up my betta bowl

You can get plants the same day as the betta, shouldn't hurt them any. How big of a container did you end up getting for your little guy? Amber Kathy wrote: > > > Oh, I hadn't realized that. Maybe I should just wait two or three days > after getting the plants? I have water purifier if that's what you > mean. I'm going to put that in when I set up the plants. One snail > might not be a problem, I would welcome not having to scrub the sides > of the fishbowl, but I understand how an infestation is a major > problem. So I'll ask Lenny how to prepare the plants to kill any snail > eggs that might be there. > -Kathy > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>, Amber Berglund > <arberglund@...> wrote: > > > > Glad to hear you're up and around again, I went stir crazy when I had a > > fractured wrist and didn't leave the house for over 8 weeks except > to go > > to the doctor for checkups. > > One thing you're going to want to do is get live plants around the same > > time you get your betta, otherwise there won't be anything in the water > > to feed the plants and they will start to die off. > > Unless you want to get a little bottle of ammonia and start feeding the > > water before you add the plants, that will start the cycle in your bowl > > as well, but then you will have to test the water before you add the > > betta (make sure the ammonia/nitrite/nitrate is not too high for him). > > It would really be easier to just get the plants and the betta on the > > same day. You will also probably want to clean your plants fairly well > > (which means dipping them to clean them). I cannot remember the bleach > > ratio so I don't want to give bad info, but I'm sure Lenny or someone > > else out there will know it. The last time I got plants I didn't bleach > > dip them and ended up with tons of pest snails that I wish would go > away > > now ;) > > > > Amber > > > > Kathy wrote: > > > > > > > > > I'm allowed to do a little walking now! So I can get my fishbowl set > > > up! Yes I know I'm a wimp not wanting to get my fish until the docs > > > gave me the ok to walk, some of you have maintained large tanks while > > > on crutches. To remind you folks why I couldn't walk, I had > surgery on > > > my foot to repair a Jones' fracture (google it) and wasn't allowed to > > > walk between September 4th and October 20. To remind you folks why > I'm > > > getting a fishbowl, my residince hall at school will only allow a > fish > > > in a bowl, no aquariums, and nothing electric (e.g. filter or heater) > > > in the bowl. Something about aquariums busting easier and making more > > > of a mess. I've got substrate (glass pebbles) and a little cave in > > > there already (Lenny suggested something for the fish to hide in, > so I > > > got the little cave...don't worry, all the holes are big enough for a > > > betta). I will get some live plants and set everything up, then I > will > > > wait a few days for the water to get high quality from the plants > > > being in there. After that, I'll call Walmart and ask when their next > > > betta shipment is. They get a shipment of live fish every Thursday, > > > but not all of their shippments include bettas. How long should I > wait > > > between the shipment date and going to pick out a fish? I was > thinking > > > three days so that the fish can get over shipping stress but not have > > > to spend too much time at Walmart. > > > I've got the bowl about two and a half feet from a northwest facing > > > window, there's some houseplants in between the window and the > bowl so > > > it only gets filtered sunlight. I've got a tray underneath to protect > > > the bookcase it's on. My suitemates keep the thermostat at 75 degrees > > > or higher because they're all considerably thinner than I am and > > > therefore they get cold easily...I find myself getting way too hot in > > > the suite because I'm overweight and therefore more insulated. So the > > > room temperature should be fine for a betta if the water temp > > > approximately matches the room temp, right? Is the location of the > > > bowl ok? > > > Anyway, just wanted to share the good news! > > > -Kathy > > > > > > > > > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 44050	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 10/26/2009
Subject: Re: Severum Behavior

Is your Severum facing the gravel like it's looking at something or is it level like it normally swims? It's possible that it could be doing breeding behavior and laying eggs, do you see anything like eggs in the area? It could also be cleaning a spot if it is going to lay eggs. Is it still eating like normal? Amber gailsugarpants wrote: > > > So my gold Severum has been acting funny and I wanted to see if anyone > else here has seen this. > At first, my Severum was hanging out, hiding under one of my rocks > (near the edge of my tank where I could see it). > Then, I did my weekly maintenance, vaccum gravel, water change etc. > And my Severum will swim forward, then swim backwards - over and over. > Back and forth in the same area. It seems unphased when I come up to > the glass, or during feeding time. It just does the back and forth - > forward & backwards... over and over. > > Is this some sign of illness, or mental illness? I dont' know. I just > think it's weird. > > The only thing that has changed in my tank, is that my tank has > recently started accumilating a green, hair like algae. > > tell me your thoughts and experiences > > thanks! > Gail > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 44051	From: clandestine662002	Date: 10/26/2009
Subject: Re: Severum Behavior

When it was hiding under the rock, it was level. When it does it's back and forth - it does it higher up in the tank in the top 1/2 of the tank. I will have to see if she is eating or not. As for mating behavior, I don't think that there are any other fish that would cause her to go into a mating mode. My only other Severum in this tank is only 1" big. And the only other fish she interacts with is my Blood Parrot. thanks, Gail

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 44052	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 10/26/2009
Subject: Re: Severum Behavior

Mine does a similar behavior when it's begging me for food, that's about all I can think of. My severum is the only severum in my 125 gallon tank so I have not seen any mating behavior so far, but that does not mean that it needs another fish to stimulate it, some fish will go into mating behavior with a water change or something else triggering it. Do you only have 1 severum as well? I'm guessing it's probably trying to beg you for more food, they're little pigs just like Oscars, LOL. Mine begs me, or anyone else that walks by the fish tank, LOL. When he/she is begging for food she swims back and forth (side to side, left/right). I'm not sure if this is the same behavior as your severum, but if he/she is watching you while doing the movement it's a possibility it's trying to nicely ask for more. Amber clandestine662002 wrote: > > > > When it was hiding under the rock, it was level. When it does it's > back and forth - it does it higher up in the tank in the top 1/2 of > the tank. I will have to see if she is eating or not. As for mating > behavior, I don't think that there are any other fish that would cause > her to go into a mating mode. My only other Severum in this tank is > only 1" big. And the only other fish she interacts with is my Blood > Parrot. > > thanks, > Gail > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 44053	From: jett07002	Date: 10/27/2009
Subject: Re: Potted plants

The rock wool or other matter they are using to hold the plant should not disintegrate or fall apart. I love planted aquariums and have been keeping them for years, (Gardening is another passion of mine, hence my love for the plants) but I am far from an expert. I can not grow everything, so I just go with what I can. Never went for the CO2 injection, etc. I leave that to the scientific types. In any event, I agree with Amber. Take away any of the media that you can remove with ease. If you're going to break the roots, just leave it. If the roots have been completely meshed into the media that plant had to be growing for a good while before you got it. It has to be strong to have a root system like that! If you are going to break roots, just let it be. You can also grow them in little pots as I think Ky said. If you decide to do this and you are using plastic drinking cups, break the bottom up a bit so the roots can find their way out and extend themselves. The more they can grow out, the more nutrition they can take in from the substrate, and, of course, hold themselves down. As I have said in a previous post, you do not need that much substrate. My best growing tanks have about an inch, maybe 1 1/2 inches. joe t --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, Lainey Alexander <lainealex@...> wrote: > > Joe - > > Will the rockwool disintegrate and end up going all over the tank, or > will it stay put in the gravel? > > Lainey > http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com > > On Oct 23, 2009, at 5:51 PM, jett07002 wrote: > > > > > I would not be so quick to pull the roots from the rock wool. It > > would do more harm than good. I just take as much rock wool away > > from mine as I can do without damaging the roots and then just > > spread the roots and rock wool as best you can and cover it with > > your substrate. Much easier and you will not see the rock wool. > > > > joe t. > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 44054	From: gailsugarpants	Date: 10/27/2009
Subject: Re: Severum Behavior

Another thing I want to mention... my severum has it's top fin flat against its body - same for the fins underneath. It looks like it's aggravated, not begging for food. I don't see it being chased or harassed by the other fish. It just seems to be acting out of the ordinary -gail --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, Amber Berglund <arberglund@...> wrote: > > Mine does a similar behavior when it's begging me for food, that's about > all I can think of. > My severum is the only severum in my 125 gallon tank so I have not seen > any mating behavior so far, but that does not mean that it needs another > fish to stimulate it, some fish will go into mating behavior with a > water change or something else triggering it. Do you only have 1 severum > as well? > I'm guessing it's probably trying to beg you for more food, they're > little pigs just like Oscars, LOL. > Mine begs me, or anyone else that walks by the fish tank, LOL. When > he/she is begging for food she swims back and forth (side to side, > left/right). I'm not sure if this is the same behavior as your severum, > but if he/she is watching you while doing the movement it's a > possibility it's trying to nicely ask for more. > > Amber > > clandestine662002 wrote: > > > > > > > > When it was hiding under the rock, it was level. When it does it's > > back and forth - it does it higher up in the tank in the top 1/2 of > > the tank. I will have to see if she is eating or not. As for mating > > behavior, I don't think that there are any other fish that would cause > > her to go into a mating mode. My only other Severum in this tank is > > only 1" big. And the only other fish she interacts with is my Blood > > Parrot. > > > > thanks, > > Gail > > > > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 44055	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 10/27/2009
Subject: Re: Severum Behavior

How big is your severum and how big of a tank is it in? it's possible that it could be feeling crowded, or perhaps the water conditions are somehow off and it doesn't like them? Have you tested your water to see where you nitrates are at? Amber gailsugarpants wrote: > > > Another thing I want to mention... my severum has it's top fin flat > against its body - same for the fins underneath. It looks like it's > aggravated, not begging for food. I don't see it being chased or > harassed by the other fish. It just seems to be acting out of the > ordinary > -gail > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>, Amber Berglund > <arberglund@...> wrote: > > > > Mine does a similar behavior when it's begging me for food, that's > about > > all I can think of. > > My severum is the only severum in my 125 gallon tank so I have not seen > > any mating behavior so far, but that does not mean that it needs > another > > fish to stimulate it, some fish will go into mating behavior with a > > water change or something else triggering it. Do you only have 1 > severum > > as well? > > I'm guessing it's probably trying to beg you for more food, they're > > little pigs just like Oscars, LOL. > > Mine begs me, or anyone else that walks by the fish tank, LOL. When > > he/she is begging for food she swims back and forth (side to side, > > left/right). I'm not sure if this is the same behavior as your severum, > > but if he/she is watching you while doing the movement it's a > > possibility it's trying to nicely ask for more. > > > > Amber > > > > clandestine662002 wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > When it was hiding under the rock, it was level. When it does it's > > > back and forth - it does it higher up in the tank in the top 1/2 of > > > the tank. I will have to see if she is eating or not. As for mating > > > behavior, I don't think that there are any other fish that would > cause > > > her to go into a mating mode. My only other Severum in this tank is > > > only 1" big. And the only other fish she interacts with is my Blood > > > Parrot. > > > > > > thanks, > > > Gail > > > > > > > > > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 44056	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 10/27/2009
Subject: Re: Severum Behavior

How big is your severum and how big of a tank is it in? it's possible that it could be feeling crowded, or perhaps the water conditions are somehow off and it doesn't like them? Have you tested your water to see where you nitrates are at? Amber gailsugarpants wrote: > > > Another thing I want to mention... my severum has it's top fin flat > against its body - same for the fins underneath. It looks like it's > aggravated, not begging for food. I don't see it being chased or > harassed by the other fish. It just seems to be acting out of the > ordinary > -gail > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>, Amber Berglund > <arberglund@...> wrote: > > > > Mine does a similar behavior when it's begging me for food, that's > about > > all I can think of. > > My severum is the only severum in my 125 gallon tank so I have not seen > > any mating behavior so far, but that does not mean that it needs > another > > fish to stimulate it, some fish will go into mating behavior with a > > water change or something else triggering it. Do you only have 1 > severum > > as well? > > I'm guessing it's probably trying to beg you for more food, they're > > little pigs just like Oscars, LOL. > > Mine begs me, or anyone else that walks by the fish tank, LOL. When > > he/she is begging for food she swims back and forth (side to side, > > left/right). I'm not sure if this is the same behavior as your severum, > > but if he/she is watching you while doing the movement it's a > > possibility it's trying to nicely ask for more. > > > > Amber > > > > clandestine662002 wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > When it was hiding under the rock, it was level. When it does it's > > > back and forth - it does it higher up in the tank in the top 1/2 of > > > the tank. I will have to see if she is eating or not. As for mating > > > behavior, I don't think that there are any other fish that would > cause > > > her to go into a mating mode. My only other Severum in this tank is > > > only 1" big. And the only other fish she interacts with is my Blood > > > Parrot. > > > > > > thanks, > > > Gail > > > > > > > > > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 44057	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 10/27/2009
Subject: Re: Severum Behavior

Oh, another question. Is this the only fish acting oddly in the tank? I would keep an eye on the other fish and see if anyone else is acting differently. It's possible that the severum could be sick some how, check it's poop to see what it looks like (odd color, shape, etc?). When my severum had ich it started acting different but not like how you're describing. Amber gailsugarpants wrote: > > > Another thing I want to mention... my severum has it's top fin flat > against its body - same for the fins underneath. It looks like it's > aggravated, not begging for food. I don't see it being chased or > harassed by the other fish. It just seems to be acting out of the > ordinary > -gail > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>, Amber Berglund > <arberglund@...> wrote: > > > > Mine does a similar behavior when it's begging me for food, that's > about > > all I can think of. > > My severum is the only severum in my 125 gallon tank so I have not seen > > any mating behavior so far, but that does not mean that it needs > another > > fish to stimulate it, some fish will go into mating behavior with a > > water change or something else triggering it. Do you only have 1 > severum > > as well? > > I'm guessing it's probably trying to beg you for more food, they're > > little pigs just like Oscars, LOL. > > Mine begs me, or anyone else that walks by the fish tank, LOL. When > > he/she is begging for food she swims back and forth (side to side, > > left/right). I'm not sure if this is the same behavior as your severum, > > but if he/she is watching you while doing the movement it's a > > possibility it's trying to nicely ask for more. > > > > Amber > > > > clandestine662002 wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > When it was hiding under the rock, it was level. When it does it's > > > back and forth - it does it higher up in the tank in the top 1/2 of > > > the tank. I will have to see if she is eating or not. As for mating > > > behavior, I don't think that there are any other fish that would > cause > > > her to go into a mating mode. My only other Severum in this tank is > > > only 1" big. And the only other fish she interacts with is my Blood > > > Parrot. > > > > > > thanks, > > > Gail > > > > > > > > > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 44058	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 10/27/2009
Subject: Re: can walk again, ergo I'm starting to set up my betta bowl

I know I'm getting in late on this thread. Sorry... had a busy day yesterday. I would find out when the Bettas arrive and plan to be there the same day. Find a few that you like as far as coloration and then test feed the few you like and see which ones are most willing to eat and seem vivacious. Then make your choice. Remember to S-L-O-W-L-Y acclimate them to your bowl's water as they are shipped in those little cups so the water in those cups is likely VERY different from your water... not counting the water conditioner that they put in those shipping cups and they have probably been living in that water for several days or more. In dimmed room lighting... or maybe start this when it's about to get dark. I would probably put the cup inside of a larger bowl (big cereal bowl?) with your bowl's water in that bowl also. Then add a couple of teaspoons of your fish bowls water to the cup and keep doing that every couple of minutes for an hour or more until the cup is overflowing. The cup inside of another bowl is a safety precaution in case the betta jumps from the cup. There are six teaspoons in an ounce and if the cup has 8 oz. of water, that means 48 teaspoons of water in the cup. Guessing it's a 10 oz. to 12 oz. cup, it will take you up to 24 teaspoons to fill up the Betta's original cup. After that, remove a couple of ounces of water from the cup and discard that water. Continue with 4-6 teaspoons (up to an ounce) every couple of minutes and after doing that a dozen or so times, the cups water should be nearly identical to your fish bowl's water. Pour the cup through a net letting the old water go into that cereal bowl and then dip the net into your fish bowl to let the fish go free. Keep an eye on it to make sure it is doing well and keep the lighting dimmed enough so that the fish feels more secure but you can still see it to make sure it's not in any kind of distress. Remember to leave the water level an inch or two below the rim of the bowl and put a screen type cover over the bowl so that the air space at the top of the bowl is able to get fresh air. If there is ever a time when your suitemates are going to be using air freshener sprays, Lysol, etc., then you would want to cover the bowl with a more sealed top until the junk is out of the air... or better yet, try to dissuade them from using that crap in your suite in the first place. Open a window if things get funky in the suite... or if one of you burn your Ramen noodles or leftover pizza. LOL As Amber (and maybe others) said, set up the bowl, plants, etc., but DO NOT wait three days unless you are stuck with that delay waiting for the fish to come in. You can set up the bowl with the water now and give it time to get to room temperature and outgas/ingas to stabilize but after adding the plants, I would wait no more than one day for adding the fish UNLESS you have no other choice... such as all the Betta's that come in do not look healthy at Walmart. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Kathy Sent: Monday, October 26, 2009 6:20 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] can walk again, ergo I'm starting to set up my betta bowl I'm allowed to do a little walking now! So I can get my fishbowl set up! Yes I know I'm a wimp not wanting to get my fish until the docs gave me the ok to walk, some of you have maintained large tanks while on crutches. To remind you folks why I couldn't walk, I had surgery on my foot to repair a Jones' fracture (google it) and wasn't allowed to walk between September 4th and October 20. To remind you folks why I'm getting a fishbowl, my residince hall at school will only allow a fish in a bowl, no aquariums, and nothing electric (e.g. filter or heater) in the bowl. Something about aquariums busting easier and making more of a mess. I've got substrate (glass pebbles) and a little cave in there already (Lenny suggested something for the fish to hide in, so I got the little cave...don't worry, all the holes are big enough for a betta). I will get some live plants and set everything up, then I will wait a few days for the water to get high quality from the plants being in there. After that, I'll call Walmart and ask when their next betta shipment is. They get a shipment of live fish every Thursday, but not all of their shippments include bettas. How long should I wait between the shipment date and going to pick out a fish? I was thinking three days so that the fish can get over shipping stress but not have to spend too much time at Walmart. I've got the bowl about two and a half feet from a northwest facing window, there's some houseplants in between the window and the bowl so it only gets filtered sunlight. I've got a tray underneath to protect the bookcase it's on. My suitemates keep the thermostat at 75 degrees or higher because they're all considerably thinner than I am and therefore they get cold easily...I find myself getting way too hot in the suite because I'm overweight and therefore more insulated. So the room temperature should be fine for a betta if the water temp approximately matches the room temp, right? Is the location of the bowl ok? Anyway, just wanted to share the good news! -Kathy

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 44059	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 10/27/2009
Subject: Re: Severum Behavior

Many male fish and other critters (frogs, toads, us human males, etc.) will do things to attract a female even when one is not in sight (I find that the Pee Wee Herman Big Shoe dance works best for me.. LOL http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UVKsd8z6scw starts around the 3 minute mark). Male Bettas will build a bubble nest to attract a female when it is the only fish in the tank/bowl and has been the only fish in the tank/bowl for a LONG time. Now that's wishful thinking! Kind of like the High Hopes song! http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vOPDI03gmUw Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Amber Berglund Sent: Monday, October 26, 2009 8:32 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: Severum Behavior Mine does a similar behavior when it's begging me for food, that's about all I can think of. My severum is the only severum in my 125 gallon tank so I have not seen any mating behavior so far, but that does not mean that it needs another fish to stimulate it, some fish will go into mating behavior with a water change or something else triggering it. Do you only have 1 severum as well? I'm guessing it's probably trying to beg you for more food, they're little pigs just like Oscars, LOL. Mine begs me, or anyone else that walks by the fish tank, LOL. When he/she is begging for food she swims back and forth (side to side, left/right). I'm not sure if this is the same behavior as your severum, but if he/she is watching you while doing the movement it's a possibility it's trying to nicely ask for more. Amber clandestine662002 wrote: > > > > When it was hiding under the rock, it was level. When it does it's > back and forth - it does it higher up in the tank in the top 1/2 of > the tank. I will have to see if she is eating or not. As for mating > behavior, I don't think that there are any other fish that would cause > her to go into a mating mode. My only other Severum in this tank is > only 1" big. And the only other fish she interacts with is my Blood > Parrot. > > thanks, > Gail >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 44060	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 10/27/2009
Subject: Re: Severum Behavior

OK. What are your water parameters? Tank size, stocking, etc. It's time for more info now. The clamped fins is usually NOT a good sign for fish. I'm curious how it's moving back and forth with clamped pectoral fins though? Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of gailsugarpants Sent: Tuesday, October 27, 2009 9:54 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Severum Behavior Another thing I want to mention... my severum has it's top fin flat against its body - same for the fins underneath. It looks like it's aggravated, not begging for food. I don't see it being chased or harassed by the other fish. It just seems to be acting out of the ordinary -gail --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, Amber Berglund <arberglund@...> wrote: > > Mine does a similar behavior when it's begging me for food, that's > about all I can think of. > My severum is the only severum in my 125 gallon tank so I have not > seen any mating behavior so far, but that does not mean that it needs > another fish to stimulate it, some fish will go into mating behavior > with a water change or something else triggering it. Do you only have > 1 severum as well? > I'm guessing it's probably trying to beg you for more food, they're > little pigs just like Oscars, LOL. > Mine begs me, or anyone else that walks by the fish tank, LOL. When > he/she is begging for food she swims back and forth (side to side, > left/right). I'm not sure if this is the same behavior as your > severum, but if he/she is watching you while doing the movement it's a > possibility it's trying to nicely ask for more. > > Amber > > clandestine662002 wrote: > > > > > > > > When it was hiding under the rock, it was level. When it does it's > > back and forth - it does it higher up in the tank in the top 1/2 of > > the tank. I will have to see if she is eating or not. As for mating > > behavior, I don't think that there are any other fish that would > > cause her to go into a mating mode. My only other Severum in this > > tank is only 1" big. And the only other fish she interacts with is > > my Blood Parrot. > > > > thanks, > > Gail > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 44061	From: Kathy	Date: 10/27/2009
Subject: Re: can walk again, ergo I'm starting to set up my betta bowl

It's a four gallon drum bowl, I wanted to get the biggest one I could find so that the fish would be happy and healthy. Pretty much a mansion for a betta, at least that's what Lenny says. -Kathy --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, Amber Berglund <arberglund@...> wrote: > > You can get plants the same day as the betta, shouldn't hurt them any. > How big of a container did you end up getting for your little guy? > > Amber > > Kathy wrote: > > > > > > Oh, I hadn't realized that. Maybe I should just wait two or three days > > after getting the plants? I have water purifier if that's what you > > mean. I'm going to put that in when I set up the plants. One snail > > might not be a problem, I would welcome not having to scrub the sides > > of the fishbowl, but I understand how an infestation is a major > > problem. So I'll ask Lenny how to prepare the plants to kill any snail > > eggs that might be there. > > -Kathy > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>, Amber Berglund > > <arberglund@> wrote: > > > > > > Glad to hear you're up and around again, I went stir crazy when I had a > > > fractured wrist and didn't leave the house for over 8 weeks except > > to go > > > to the doctor for checkups. > > > One thing you're going to want to do is get live plants around the same > > > time you get your betta, otherwise there won't be anything in the water > > > to feed the plants and they will start to die off. > > > Unless you want to get a little bottle of ammonia and start feeding the > > > water before you add the plants, that will start the cycle in your bowl > > > as well, but then you will have to test the water before you add the > > > betta (make sure the ammonia/nitrite/nitrate is not too high for him). > > > It would really be easier to just get the plants and the betta on the > > > same day. You will also probably want to clean your plants fairly well > > > (which means dipping them to clean them). I cannot remember the bleach > > > ratio so I don't want to give bad info, but I'm sure Lenny or someone > > > else out there will know it. The last time I got plants I didn't bleach > > > dip them and ended up with tons of pest snails that I wish would go > > away > > > now ;) > > > > > > Amber > > > > > > Kathy wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > I'm allowed to do a little walking now! So I can get my fishbowl set > > > > up! Yes I know I'm a wimp not wanting to get my fish until the docs > > > > gave me the ok to walk, some of you have maintained large tanks while > > > > on crutches. To remind you folks why I couldn't walk, I had > > surgery on > > > > my foot to repair a Jones' fracture (google it) and wasn't allowed to > > > > walk between September 4th and October 20. To remind you folks why > > I'm > > > > getting a fishbowl, my residince hall at school will only allow a > > fish > > > > in a bowl, no aquariums, and nothing electric (e.g. filter or heater) > > > > in the bowl. Something about aquariums busting easier and making more > > > > of a mess. I've got substrate (glass pebbles) and a little cave in > > > > there already (Lenny suggested something for the fish to hide in, > > so I > > > > got the little cave...don't worry, all the holes are big enough for a > > > > betta). I will get some live plants and set everything up, then I > > will > > > > wait a few days for the water to get high quality from the plants > > > > being in there. After that, I'll call Walmart and ask when their next > > > > betta shipment is. They get a shipment of live fish every Thursday, > > > > but not all of their shippments include bettas. How long should I > > wait > > > > between the shipment date and going to pick out a fish? I was > > thinking > > > > three days so that the fish can get over shipping stress but not have > > > > to spend too much time at Walmart. > > > > I've got the bowl about two and a half feet from a northwest facing > > > > window, there's some houseplants in between the window and the > > bowl so > > > > it only gets filtered sunlight. I've got a tray underneath to protect > > > > the bookcase it's on. My suitemates keep the thermostat at 75 degrees > > > > or higher because they're all considerably thinner than I am and > > > > therefore they get cold easily...I find myself getting way too hot in > > > > the suite because I'm overweight and therefore more insulated. So the > > > > room temperature should be fine for a betta if the water temp > > > > approximately matches the room temp, right? Is the location of the > > > > bowl ok? > > > > Anyway, just wanted to share the good news! > > > > -Kathy > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 44062	From: Kathy	Date: 10/27/2009
Subject: Re: can walk again, ergo I'm starting to set up my betta bowl

SEE MY REPLYS IN ALL CAPS...NO I'M NOT YELLING, JUST MAKING SURE MY TYPING LOOKS DIFFERENT FROM YOURS. -KATHY --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@...> wrote: > > I know I'm getting in late on this thread. Sorry... had a busy day > yesterday. > > I would find out when the Bettas arrive and plan to be there the same day. > Find a few that you like as far as coloration and then test feed the few you > like and see which ones are most willing to eat and seem vivacious. Then > make your choice. Remember to S-L-O-W-L-Y acclimate them to your bowl's > water as they are shipped in those little cups so the water in those cups is > likely VERY different from your water... not counting the water conditioner > that they put in those shipping cups and they have probably been living in > that water for several days or more. DON'T KNOW IF THEY'LL LET ME TEST FEED THE BETTAS. I'M GOING THE DAY AFTER THE SHIPPMENT. SO THEY SHOULD STILL BE HEALTHY. > > In dimmed room lighting... or maybe start this when it's about to get dark. > IT WILL BE EVENING WHEN I GET THE FISH BACK TO MY SUITE. I COULD CLOSE THE BLINDS AND TURN OFF THE REGULAR LIGHT, JUST LEAVE MY DESK LAMP ON. WILL THAT BE DIM ENOUGH? > I would probably put the cup inside of a larger bowl (big cereal bowl?) with > your bowl's water in that bowl also. Then add a couple of teaspoons of your > fish bowls water to the cup and keep doing that every couple of minutes for > an hour or more until the cup is overflowing. The cup inside of another > bowl is a safety precaution in case the betta jumps from the cup. There are > six teaspoons in an ounce and if the cup has 8 oz. of water, that means 48 > teaspoons of water in the cup. Guessing it's a 10 oz. to 12 oz. cup, it > will take you up to 24 teaspoons to fill up the Betta's original cup. After > that, remove a couple of ounces of water from the cup and discard that > water. Continue with 4-6 teaspoons (up to an ounce) every couple of minutes > and after doing that a dozen or so times, the cups water should be nearly > identical to your fish bowl's water. Pour the cup through a net letting the > old water go into that cereal bowl and then dip the net into your fish bowl > to let the fish go free. I HAVE A 4 CUP GLASS MEASURING CUP. DOES THAT SOUND OK? THAT'LL INVOLVE LESS WATER REMOVAL FROM THE BETTA CUP. I WAS GOING TO LEAVE THE WATER LEVEL ABOUT 4" BELOW THE TOP OF THE BOWL SO THAT THE OXYGEN GETS IN AND OUT OF THE WATER BETTER. WHERE CAN I GET SOME SCREEN OR MESH TO PUT OVER THE TOP? > > Keep an eye on it to make sure it is doing well and keep the lighting dimmed > enough so that the fish feels more secure but you can still see it to make > sure it's not in any kind of distress. > > Remember to leave the water level an inch or two below the rim of the bowl > and put a screen type cover over the bowl so that the air space at the top > of the bowl is able to get fresh air. If there is ever a time when your > suitemates are going to be using air freshener sprays, Lysol, etc., then you > would want to cover the bowl with a more sealed top until the junk is out of > the air... or better yet, try to dissuade them from using that crap in your > suite in the first place. Open a window if things get funky in the suite... > or if one of you burn your Ramen noodles or leftover pizza. LOL > OH, IS IT BAD THAT I HAVE A WALL PLUG-IN AIR FRESHENER? MY ROOM STARTED TO SMELL FUNNY WHEN I WAS IN THE CAST, SO I GOT ONE TO HELP WITH THE FUNKY SMELL. AND I'VE GOTTEN USED TO IT, TO THE POINT WHERE I'M AFRAID MY ROOM WILL SMELL BAD WITHOUT IT. I'M AFRAID OF OPENING THE WINDOW BECAUSE I MIGHT FORGET TO CLOSE IT. PLUS IT'S BEEN GETTING COLD HERE, SO IT WOULD MAKE THE FISH VERY UNCOMFORTABLE TO OPEN A WINDOW. IS IT JUST THE AEROSOL AIR FRESHENERS THAT ARE BAD, OR ARE THE WALL ONES BAD TOO? AND CAN I STILL PUT ON MY PERFUME IN THE BEDROOM IF THE FISH IS SENSITIVE TO CHEMICALISH SPRAY STUFF? > As Amber (and maybe others) said, set up the bowl, plants, etc., but DO NOT > wait three days unless you are stuck with that delay waiting for the fish to > come in. You can set up the bowl with the water now and give it time to get > to room temperature and outgas/ingas to stabilize but after adding the > plants, I would wait no more than one day for adding the fish UNLESS you > have no other choice... such as all the Betta's that come in do not look > healthy at Walmart. LAST TIME I SAW ONE OF THEIR NEW BETTA SHIPPMENTS, OVER HALF OF THEM LOOKED REALLY HEALTHY. BUT THE HEALTHY ONES GO REALLY FAST, BECAUSE THE NEXT TIME I WAS THERE THEY HAD LIKE FIVE UNHEALTHY BETTAS. > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right > side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) > > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On > Behalf Of Kathy > Sent: Monday, October 26, 2009 6:20 AM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Subject: [AquaticLife] can walk again, ergo I'm starting to set up my betta > bowl > > I'm allowed to do a little walking now! So I can get my fishbowl set up! > Yes I know I'm a wimp not wanting to get my fish until the docs gave me the > ok to walk, some of you have maintained large tanks while on crutches. To > remind you folks why I couldn't walk, I had surgery on my foot to repair a > Jones' fracture (google it) and wasn't allowed to walk between September 4th > and October 20. To remind you folks why I'm getting a fishbowl, my > residince hall at school will only allow a fish in a bowl, no aquariums, and > nothing electric (e.g. filter or heater) in the bowl. Something about > aquariums busting easier and making more of a mess. I've got substrate > (glass pebbles) and a little cave in there already (Lenny suggested > something for the fish to hide in, so I got the little cave...don't worry, > all the holes are big enough for a betta). I will get some live plants and > set everything up, then I will wait a few days for the water to get high > quality from the plants being in there. After that, I'll call Walmart and > ask when their next betta shipment is. They get a shipment of live fish > every Thursday, but not all of their shippments include bettas. How long > should I wait between the shipment date and going to pick out a fish? I was > thinking three days so that the fish can get over shipping stress but not > have to spend too much time at Walmart. > I've got the bowl about two and a half feet from a northwest facing window, > there's some houseplants in between the window and the bowl so it only gets > filtered sunlight. I've got a tray underneath to protect the bookcase it's > on. My suitemates keep the thermostat at 75 degrees or higher because > they're all considerably thinner than I am and therefore they get cold > easily...I find myself getting way too hot in the suite because I'm > overweight and therefore more insulated. So the room temperature should be > fine for a betta if the water temp approximately matches the room temp, > right? Is the location of the bowl ok? > Anyway, just wanted to share the good news! > -Kathy >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 44063	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 10/27/2009
Subject: Re: can walk again, ergo I'm starting to set up my betta bowl

having just a desk lamp on should be good enough for the little guy, you probably don't need to close the blinds if it's already dark or nearly dark outside when you get home with him. The basic rule when you acclimate a fish is to do a little water change every few minutes, slowly adding a little water until you overfill his cup, then pour some out and keep adding a little until you've replaced the entire cup with your water from your fish tank bowl, that will acclimate him slow enough to not shock him when you dump out his cup into a fish net and put him into his new 4 gallon mansion :) My betta has a 10 gallon mansion with a dwarf frog for company, I'm sure your betta will love your 4 gallon bowl. You can get mesh for the top from a hardware store, ask to see what they have in their "screen" section, like the kind of mesh screens you get for window screens, they should have something that will work for you. If they don't have something that is firm and metal (small selection perhaps), you can always get normal window screening which is bendable and use a string or large rubber band perhaps to go around the mesh and keep it secure on the top of your bowl. This is mainly to keep anything from getting dropped into the fish bowl, and to keep your new betta from accidentally jumping out (which can happen if they get startled from something). How are you planning to do the water changes? Do you have a cup that will fit in the opening of the bowl so you can scoop out water every few days and add fresh water, or will you have to pour some of the water out? I find it's much less stressful on the betta if you don't have to pour out his tank and just scoop a little of the water out and get yourself a piece of maybe 1/2 inch tubing (the clear kind you can get from your LFS or fish section in walmart) should do, that will be used to syphon the gravel weekly. Depending on the size of the gravel you get you might get smaller than 1/2 inch tubing (I was making a guess, LOL). Just put one end in your betta bowl, the other end into a small bucket, or if you don't have another bucket another large bowl will work just don't knock it over like I would, LOL. Then just suck on the end (not in the betta bowl) and get the water going through the tube and set it into your other bowl/bucket and start moving it over the gravel while it's sucking up detritus and water, with a smaller tube you won't have to worry about sucking up your betta on accident too ;). Oh and make sure not to drink your fish tank water when you start your syphon going, I've done that a couple times and it doesn't taste good, LOL. Amber Kathy wrote: > > > SEE MY REPLYS IN ALL CAPS...NO I'M NOT YELLING, JUST MAKING SURE MY > TYPING LOOKS DIFFERENT FROM YOURS. > -KATHY > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>, "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" > <GoldLenny@...> wrote: > > > > I know I'm getting in late on this thread. Sorry... had a busy day > > yesterday. > > > > I would find out when the Bettas arrive and plan to be there the > same day. > > Find a few that you like as far as coloration and then test feed the > few you > > like and see which ones are most willing to eat and seem vivacious. Then > > make your choice. Remember to S-L-O-W-L-Y acclimate them to your bowl's > > water as they are shipped in those little cups so the water in those > cups is > > likely VERY different from your water... not counting the water > conditioner > > that they put in those shipping cups and they have probably been > living in > > that water for several days or more. > > DON'T KNOW IF THEY'LL LET ME TEST FEED THE BETTAS. I'M GOING THE DAY > AFTER THE SHIPPMENT. SO THEY SHOULD STILL BE HEALTHY. > > > > In dimmed room lighting... or maybe start this when it's about to > get dark. > > > IT WILL BE EVENING WHEN I GET THE FISH BACK TO MY SUITE. I COULD CLOSE > THE BLINDS AND TURN OFF THE REGULAR LIGHT, JUST LEAVE MY DESK LAMP ON. > WILL THAT BE DIM ENOUGH? > > > I would probably put the cup inside of a larger bowl (big cereal > bowl?) with > > your bowl's water in that bowl also. Then add a couple of teaspoons > of your > > fish bowls water to the cup and keep doing that every couple of > minutes for > > an hour or more until the cup is overflowing. The cup inside of another > > bowl is a safety precaution in case the betta jumps from the cup. > There are > > six teaspoons in an ounce and if the cup has 8 oz. of water, that > means 48 > > teaspoons of water in the cup. Guessing it's a 10 oz. to 12 oz. cup, it > > will take you up to 24 teaspoons to fill up the Betta's original > cup. After > > that, remove a couple of ounces of water from the cup and discard that > > water. Continue with 4-6 teaspoons (up to an ounce) every couple of > minutes > > and after doing that a dozen or so times, the cups water should be > nearly > > identical to your fish bowl's water. Pour the cup through a net > letting the > > old water go into that cereal bowl and then dip the net into your > fish bowl > > to let the fish go free. > > I HAVE A 4 CUP GLASS MEASURING CUP. DOES THAT SOUND OK? THAT'LL > INVOLVE LESS WATER REMOVAL FROM THE BETTA CUP. I WAS GOING TO LEAVE > THE WATER LEVEL ABOUT 4" BELOW THE TOP OF THE BOWL SO THAT THE OXYGEN > GETS IN AND OUT OF THE WATER BETTER. WHERE CAN I GET SOME SCREEN OR > MESH TO PUT OVER THE TOP? > > > > Keep an eye on it to make sure it is doing well and keep the > lighting dimmed > > enough so that the fish feels more secure but you can still see it > to make > > sure it's not in any kind of distress. > > > > Remember to leave the water level an inch or two below the rim of > the bowl > > and put a screen type cover over the bowl so that the air space at > the top > > of the bowl is able to get fresh air. If there is ever a time when your > > suitemates are going to be using air freshener sprays, Lysol, etc., > then you > > would want to cover the bowl with a more sealed top until the junk > is out of > > the air... or better yet, try to dissuade them from using that crap > in your > > suite in the first place. Open a window if things get funky in the > suite... > > or if one of you burn your Ramen noodles or leftover pizza. LOL > > > OH, IS IT BAD THAT I HAVE A WALL PLUG-IN AIR FRESHENER? MY ROOM > STARTED TO SMELL FUNNY WHEN I WAS IN THE CAST, SO I GOT ONE TO HELP > WITH THE FUNKY SMELL. AND I'VE GOTTEN USED TO IT, TO THE POINT WHERE > I'M AFRAID MY ROOM WILL SMELL BAD WITHOUT IT. I'M AFRAID OF OPENING > THE WINDOW BECAUSE I MIGHT FORGET TO CLOSE IT. PLUS IT'S BEEN GETTING > COLD HERE, SO IT WOULD MAKE THE FISH VERY UNCOMFORTABLE TO OPEN A > WINDOW. IS IT JUST THE AEROSOL AIR FRESHENERS THAT ARE BAD, OR ARE THE > WALL ONES BAD TOO? AND CAN I STILL PUT ON MY PERFUME IN THE BEDROOM IF > THE FISH IS SENSITIVE TO CHEMICALISH SPRAY STUFF? > > > As Amber (and maybe others) said, set up the bowl, plants, etc., but > DO NOT > > wait three days unless you are stuck with that delay waiting for the > fish to > > come in. You can set up the bowl with the water now and give it time > to get > > to room temperature and outgas/ingas to stabilize but after adding the > > plants, I would wait no more than one day for adding the fish UNLESS you > > have no other choice... such as all the Betta's that come in do not look > > healthy at Walmart. > > LAST TIME I SAW ONE OF THEIR NEW BETTA SHIPPMENTS, OVER HALF OF THEM > LOOKED REALLY HEALTHY. BUT THE HEALTHY ONES GO REALLY FAST, BECAUSE > THE NEXT TIME I WAS THERE THEY HAD LIKE FIVE UNHEALTHY BETTAS. > > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right > > side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, > Month) > > > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On > > Behalf Of Kathy > > Sent: Monday, October 26, 2009 6:20 AM > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > Subject: [AquaticLife] can walk again, ergo I'm starting to set up > my betta > > bowl > > > > I'm allowed to do a little walking now! So I can get my fishbowl set up! > > Yes I know I'm a wimp not wanting to get my fish until the docs gave > me the > > ok to walk, some of you have maintained large tanks while on > crutches. To > > remind you folks why I couldn't walk, I had surgery on my foot to > repair a > > Jones' fracture (google it) and wasn't allowed to walk between > September 4th > > and October 20. To remind you folks why I'm getting a fishbowl, my > > residince hall at school will only allow a fish in a bowl, no > aquariums, and > > nothing electric (e.g. filter or heater) in the bowl. Something about > > aquariums busting easier and making more of a mess. I've got substrate > > (glass pebbles) and a little cave in there already (Lenny suggested > > something for the fish to hide in, so I got the little cave...don't > worry, > > all the holes are big enough for a betta). I will get some live > plants and > > set everything up, then I will wait a few days for the water to get high > > quality from the plants being in there. After that, I'll call > Walmart and > > ask when their next betta shipment is. They get a shipment of live fish > > every Thursday, but not all of their shippments include bettas. How long > > should I wait between the shipment date and going to pick out a > fish? I was > > thinking three days so that the fish can get over shipping stress > but not > > have to spend too much time at Walmart. > > I've got the bowl about two and a half feet from a northwest facing > window, > > there's some houseplants in between the window and the bowl so it > only gets > > filtered sunlight. I've got a tray underneath to protect the > bookcase it's > > on. My suitemates keep the thermostat at 75 degrees or higher because > > they're all considerably thinner than I am and therefore they get cold > > easily...I find myself getting way too hot in the suite because I'm > > overweight and therefore more insulated. So the room temperature > should be > > fine for a betta if the water temp approximately matches the room temp, > > right? Is the location of the bowl ok? > > Anyway, just wanted to share the good news! > > -Kathy > > > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 44064	From: gailsugarpants	Date: 10/27/2009
Subject: Re: Severum Behavior

It is the only fish that is acting oddly. To answer Lenny's questions, i will have to check my water tonight when I get home. But it's my 55 Gallon Bowfront. It's stocked with: 3 Emerald Corys 3" 1 Pictus cat fish 4" 1 Blood Parrot 4" 1 Severum 5" 1 Severum 1" 5 Tiger Barbs 2" 1 Earth eater 4" 1 Frontosa 2" I will post my water perameters in the morning. thanks. -gail --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@...> wrote: > > OK. What are your water parameters? Tank size, stocking, etc. It's time > for more info now. The clamped fins is usually NOT a good sign for fish. > I'm curious how it's moving back and forth with clamped pectoral fins > though? > > Lenny Vasbinder

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 44065	From: sevenspringss@wmconnect.com	Date: 10/27/2009
Subject: Re: Severum Behavior

How long have you had this 5" Severum? Ray [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 44066	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 10/27/2009
Subject: Re: can walk again, ergo I'm starting to set up my betta bowl

Something I've seen others do (mostly women since it's kind of fu-fu'ish.. lol) is to take a cloth knitted doily and drape it over the top and then use a string or large rubber band to hold the doily in place. See the pics starting about 1/3 down on this page. http://thegab.org/Tropicals/betta-basics.html Most of the info on that page is fairly accurate although they show a much shorter lifespan (only 2-3 years... which might be average for the number of Bettas that die early due to being kept in undersized homes) but Bettas can and should live to 5-7 years and up to 10 years if kept in a proper home. The other bad thing is they also talk about doing 100% water changes without explaining that this should NOT be done unless the incoming water and tank/bowl water have identical water parameters, which simply will not happen if someone is doing a 100% water change once a week or more. 25% to 33% is a safe amount in most cases and up to 50% in other cases but 100% water changes should be reserved for emergencies or for experienced fish keepers who know their water. Changing out too much water, too fast, causes osmoregulatory stress (if the water parameters are different... which most of the times, they will be) and this leads to health issues. Using a small gravel siphon will work for cleaning the excess fish poop out the gravel and for doing 25% to 33% PWC's (partial water changes). I have a blog article on starting a siphon without the need to suck on the hose (Amber... this is for you too... unless you like your fish water... LOL). http://goldlenny.blogspot.com/2007/06/how-to-start-your-gravel-siphon.html Oh yeah Amber... don't forget to floss before brushing your teeth after sucking down some fish water. LOL (This has been a public service announcement for the American Dental Association) Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Amber Berglund Sent: Tuesday, October 27, 2009 4:26 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: can walk again, ergo I'm starting to set up my betta bowl having just a desk lamp on should be good enough for the little guy, you probably don't need to close the blinds if it's already dark or nearly dark outside when you get home with him. The basic rule when you acclimate a fish is to do a little water change every few minutes, slowly adding a little water until you overfill his cup, then pour some out and keep adding a little until you've replaced the entire cup with your water from your fish tank bowl, that will acclimate him slow enough to not shock him when you dump out his cup into a fish net and put him into his new 4 gallon mansion :) My betta has a 10 gallon mansion with a dwarf frog for company, I'm sure your betta will love your 4 gallon bowl. You can get mesh for the top from a hardware store, ask to see what they have in their "screen" section, like the kind of mesh screens you get for window screens, they should have something that will work for you. If they don't have something that is firm and metal (small selection perhaps), you can always get normal window screening which is bendable and use a string or large rubber band perhaps to go around the mesh and keep it secure on the top of your bowl. This is mainly to keep anything from getting dropped into the fish bowl, and to keep your new betta from accidentally jumping out (which can happen if they get startled from something). How are you planning to do the water changes? Do you have a cup that will fit in the opening of the bowl so you can scoop out water every few days and add fresh water, or will you have to pour some of the water out? I find it's much less stressful on the betta if you don't have to pour out his tank and just scoop a little of the water out and get yourself a piece of maybe 1/2 inch tubing (the clear kind you can get from your LFS or fish section in walmart) should do, that will be used to syphon the gravel weekly. Depending on the size of the gravel you get you might get smaller than 1/2 inch tubing (I was making a guess, LOL). Just put one end in your betta bowl, the other end into a small bucket, or if you don't have another bucket another large bowl will work just don't knock it over like I would, LOL. Then just suck on the end (not in the betta bowl) and get the water going through the tube and set it into your other bowl/bucket and start moving it over the gravel while it's sucking up detritus and water, with a smaller tube you won't have to worry about sucking up your betta on accident too ;). Oh and make sure not to drink your fish tank water when you start your syphon going, I've done that a couple times and it doesn't taste good, LOL. Amber Kathy wrote: > > > SEE MY REPLYS IN ALL CAPS...NO I'M NOT YELLING, JUST MAKING SURE MY > TYPING LOOKS DIFFERENT FROM YOURS. > -KATHY > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>, "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" > <GoldLenny@...> wrote: > > > > I know I'm getting in late on this thread. Sorry... had a busy day > > yesterday. > > > > I would find out when the Bettas arrive and plan to be there the > same day. > > Find a few that you like as far as coloration and then test feed the > few you > > like and see which ones are most willing to eat and seem vivacious. > > Then make your choice. Remember to S-L-O-W-L-Y acclimate them to > > your bowl's water as they are shipped in those little cups so the > > water in those > cups is > > likely VERY different from your water... not counting the water > conditioner > > that they put in those shipping cups and they have probably been > living in > > that water for several days or more. > > DON'T KNOW IF THEY'LL LET ME TEST FEED THE BETTAS. I'M GOING THE DAY > AFTER THE SHIPPMENT. SO THEY SHOULD STILL BE HEALTHY. > > > > In dimmed room lighting... or maybe start this when it's about to > get dark. > > > IT WILL BE EVENING WHEN I GET THE FISH BACK TO MY SUITE. I COULD CLOSE > THE BLINDS AND TURN OFF THE REGULAR LIGHT, JUST LEAVE MY DESK LAMP ON. > WILL THAT BE DIM ENOUGH? > > > I would probably put the cup inside of a larger bowl (big cereal > bowl?) with > > your bowl's water in that bowl also. Then add a couple of teaspoons > of your > > fish bowls water to the cup and keep doing that every couple of > minutes for > > an hour or more until the cup is overflowing. The cup inside of > > another bowl is a safety precaution in case the betta jumps from the cup. > There are > > six teaspoons in an ounce and if the cup has 8 oz. of water, that > means 48 > > teaspoons of water in the cup. Guessing it's a 10 oz. to 12 oz. cup, > > it will take you up to 24 teaspoons to fill up the Betta's original > cup. After > > that, remove a couple of ounces of water from the cup and discard > > that water. Continue with 4-6 teaspoons (up to an ounce) every > > couple of > minutes > > and after doing that a dozen or so times, the cups water should be > nearly > > identical to your fish bowl's water. Pour the cup through a net > letting the > > old water go into that cereal bowl and then dip the net into your > fish bowl > > to let the fish go free. > > I HAVE A 4 CUP GLASS MEASURING CUP. DOES THAT SOUND OK? THAT'LL > INVOLVE LESS WATER REMOVAL FROM THE BETTA CUP. I WAS GOING TO LEAVE > THE WATER LEVEL ABOUT 4" BELOW THE TOP OF THE BOWL SO THAT THE OXYGEN > GETS IN AND OUT OF THE WATER BETTER. WHERE CAN I GET SOME SCREEN OR > MESH TO PUT OVER THE TOP? > > > > Keep an eye on it to make sure it is doing well and keep the > lighting dimmed > > enough so that the fish feels more secure but you can still see it > to make > > sure it's not in any kind of distress. > > > > Remember to leave the water level an inch or two below the rim of > the bowl > > and put a screen type cover over the bowl so that the air space at > the top > > of the bowl is able to get fresh air. If there is ever a time when > > your suitemates are going to be using air freshener sprays, Lysol, > > etc., > then you > > would want to cover the bowl with a more sealed top until the junk > is out of > > the air... or better yet, try to dissuade them from using that crap > in your > > suite in the first place. Open a window if things get funky in the > suite... > > or if one of you burn your Ramen noodles or leftover pizza. LOL > > > OH, IS IT BAD THAT I HAVE A WALL PLUG-IN AIR FRESHENER? MY ROOM > STARTED TO SMELL FUNNY WHEN I WAS IN THE CAST, SO I GOT ONE TO HELP > WITH THE FUNKY SMELL. AND I'VE GOTTEN USED TO IT, TO THE POINT WHERE > I'M AFRAID MY ROOM WILL SMELL BAD WITHOUT IT. I'M AFRAID OF OPENING > THE WINDOW BECAUSE I MIGHT FORGET TO CLOSE IT. PLUS IT'S BEEN GETTING > COLD HERE, SO IT WOULD MAKE THE FISH VERY UNCOMFORTABLE TO OPEN A > WINDOW. IS IT JUST THE AEROSOL AIR FRESHENERS THAT ARE BAD, OR ARE THE > WALL ONES BAD TOO? AND CAN I STILL PUT ON MY PERFUME IN THE BEDROOM IF > THE FISH IS SENSITIVE TO CHEMICALISH SPRAY STUFF? > > > As Amber (and maybe others) said, set up the bowl, plants, etc., but > DO NOT > > wait three days unless you are stuck with that delay waiting for the > fish to > > come in. You can set up the bowl with the water now and give it time > to get > > to room temperature and outgas/ingas to stabilize but after adding > > the plants, I would wait no more than one day for adding the fish > > UNLESS you have no other choice... such as all the Betta's that come > > in do not look healthy at Walmart. > > LAST TIME I SAW ONE OF THEIR NEW BETTA SHIPPMENTS, OVER HALF OF THEM > LOOKED REALLY HEALTHY. BUT THE HEALTHY ONES GO REALLY FAST, BECAUSE > THE NEXT TIME I WAS THERE THEY HAD LIKE FIVE UNHEALTHY BETTAS. > > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the > > right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by > > Year, > Month) > > > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On > > Behalf Of Kathy > > Sent: Monday, October 26, 2009 6:20 AM > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > Subject: [AquaticLife] can walk again, ergo I'm starting to set up > my betta > > bowl > > > > I'm allowed to do a little walking now! So I can get my fishbowl set up! > > Yes I know I'm a wimp not wanting to get my fish until the docs gave > me the > > ok to walk, some of you have maintained large tanks while on > crutches. To > > remind you folks why I couldn't walk, I had surgery on my foot to > repair a > > Jones' fracture (google it) and wasn't allowed to walk between > September 4th > > and October 20. To remind you folks why I'm getting a fishbowl, my > > residince hall at school will only allow a fish in a bowl, no > aquariums, and > > nothing electric (e.g. filter or heater) in the bowl. Something > > about aquariums busting easier and making more of a mess. I've got > > substrate (glass pebbles) and a little cave in there already (Lenny > > suggested something for the fish to hide in, so I got the little > > cave...don't > worry, > > all the holes are big enough for a betta). I will get some live > plants and > > set everything up, then I will wait a few days for the water to get > > high quality from the plants being in there. After that, I'll call > Walmart and > > ask when their next betta shipment is. They get a shipment of live > > fish every Thursday, but not all of their shippments include bettas. > > How long should I wait between the shipment date and going to pick > > out a > fish? I was > > thinking three days so that the fish can get over shipping stress > but not > > have to spend too much time at Walmart. > > I've got the bowl about two and a half feet from a northwest facing > window, > > there's some houseplants in between the window and the bowl so it > only gets > > filtered sunlight. I've got a tray underneath to protect the > bookcase it's > > on. My suitemates keep the thermostat at 75 degrees or higher > > because they're all considerably thinner than I am and therefore > > they get cold easily...I find myself getting way too hot in the > > suite because I'm overweight and therefore more insulated. So the > > room temperature > should be > > fine for a betta if the water temp approximately matches the room > > temp, right? Is the location of the bowl ok? > > Anyway, just wanted to share the good news! > > -Kathy

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 44067	From: Lainey Alexander	Date: 10/27/2009
Subject: GFIs

Does anyone know if a GFI outlet with all my aquarium equipment plugged into it via a power strip will protect me from shock if I reach into the tank? Or do I need to shut off the power strip each time I reach into the water? I find it hard to always remember to shut it off. Lainey http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 44068	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 10/27/2009
Subject: Re: Severum Behavior

While your BIG fish are still on the small size, it might seem like your tank is not overstocked... but it is. A tank should be stocked based on the expected adult size of the fish, not based on their current size... unless it's a temporary home like at a fish store or if in a Q-tank or H-tank waiting to be moved to a proper sized tank. ALL fish put out hormones, pheromones, etc. and as these hormone levels build up, fish will self-stunt themselves which causes stress to the fish and eventually will cause health issues and an early death for most stunted fish. This dilution/removal of hormones can be partially overcome by doing more frequent, even daily partial to larger water changes but eventually, these fish CAN NOT live together long term in your tank. The Pictus Catfish grows up to 8". 1/2 way down on http://fish.mongabay.com/pimelodidae.htm The Blood Parrot (a Flowerhorn hybrid.. right?) grows to 12". http://fish.mongabay.com/flowerhorn.htm Each Severum grows to 12". http://fish.mongabay.com/species/Heros_severus.html The Hump Headed Earth Eater grows to 10". http://fish.mongabay.com/species/Geophagus_steindachneri.html The Frontosa grows to 10" (females) to 14" (males). http://fish.mongabay.com/species/Cyphotilapia_frontosa.html Technically, each of these BIG fish should have their own 55G tank (OR LARGER) to themselves, so keeping them all in the same 55G tank for anything more than a temporary holding situation is asking for long term health issues, various stress issues, stunting issues, and ultimately only one or two BIG fish left when basic Darwinism (survival of the fittest) takes over and one of the fish realizes it cannot live long term with those other fish and starts to eliminate them. There are also some SERIOUS water parameter issues (regardless to what your water is like) where most of these fish prefer softer, low to neutral pH (6 - 7.2) water and other fish, namely the Frontosa, prefers really hard, high pH (8-9) water. Read all of the above profiles for more info. I'm not 100% positive if the above info is the reason for your Severum's behavior but I would certainly lean towards one or more of the above issues as being the cause. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of gailsugarpants Sent: Tuesday, October 27, 2009 5:47 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Severum Behavior It is the only fish that is acting oddly. To answer Lenny's questions, i will have to check my water tonight when I get home. But it's my 55 Gallon Bowfront. It's stocked with: 3 Emerald Corys 3" 1 Pictus cat fish 4" 1 Blood Parrot 4" 1 Severum 5" 1 Severum 1" 5 Tiger Barbs 2" 1 Earth eater 4" 1 Frontosa 2" I will post my water perameters in the morning. thanks. -gail --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@...> wrote: > > OK. What are your water parameters? Tank size, stocking, etc. It's > time for more info now. The clamped fins is usually NOT a good sign for fish. > I'm curious how it's moving back and forth with clamped pectoral fins > though? > > Lenny Vasbinder

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 44069	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 10/27/2009
Subject: Re: GFIs

The GFI (should be GFCI nowadays but GFI is still often used) should prevent an electrocution... as long as the GFI is working. It should have a test button and it's good to test it regularly to make sure it's working. Some people even go as far as adding a grounding probe/wire from the water down to the grounding screw that holds the outlet into the wall fixture and that should ground the water in the tank for stray voltage. Here's more info about stray voltage and electrical issues in general. http://www.atlantareefclub.org/forums/showthread.php?t=34410 http://www.farmertodd.com/library/rkessentials/electricity.asp http://saltaquarium.about.com/od/aquariummaintenancecare/a/aastrayvoltage.ht m Titanium Grounding Probe - http://www.drsfostersmith.com/product/prod_display.cfm?pcatid=3946 Last but not least, do not fool with your tank barefooted... especially on a concrete floor or wet floor... and do not grab hold of anything metal while sticking your hand into the tank. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Lainey Alexander Sent: Tuesday, October 27, 2009 7:04 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] GFIs Does anyone know if a GFI outlet with all my aquarium equipment plugged into it via a power strip will protect me from shock if I reach into the tank? Or do I need to shut off the power strip each time I reach into the water? I find it hard to always remember to shut it off. Lainey http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 44070	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 10/27/2009
Subject: Re: can walk again, ergo I'm starting to set up my betta bowl

I try not to drink the chunky fish water Lenny ;) LOL Amber Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > > > Something I've seen others do (mostly women since it's kind of fu-fu'ish.. > lol) is to take a cloth knitted doily and drape it over the top and > then use > a string or large rubber band to hold the doily in place. See the pics > starting about 1/3 down on this page. > http://thegab.org/Tropicals/betta-basics.html > <http://thegab.org/Tropicals/betta-basics.html> Most of the info on > that page > is fairly accurate although they show a much shorter lifespan (only 2-3 > years... which might be average for the number of Bettas that die > early due > to being kept in undersized homes) but Bettas can and should live to 5-7 > years and up to 10 years if kept in a proper home. The other bad thing is > they also talk about doing 100% water changes without explaining that this > should NOT be done unless the incoming water and tank/bowl water have > identical water parameters, which simply will not happen if someone is > doing > a 100% water change once a week or more. 25% to 33% is a safe amount in > most cases and up to 50% in other cases but 100% water changes should be > reserved for emergencies or for experienced fish keepers who know their > water. Changing out too much water, too fast, causes osmoregulatory stress > (if the water parameters are different... which most of the times, > they will > be) and this leads to health issues. > > Using a small gravel siphon will work for cleaning the excess fish > poop out > the gravel and for doing 25% to 33% PWC's (partial water changes). I > have a > blog article on starting a siphon without the need to suck on the hose > (Amber... this is for you too... unless you like your fish water... LOL). > http://goldlenny.blogspot.com/2007/06/how-to-start-your-gravel-siphon.html > <http://goldlenny.blogspot.com/2007/06/how-to-start-your-gravel-siphon.html> > > Oh yeah Amber... don't forget to floss before brushing your teeth after > sucking down some fish water. LOL (This has been a public service > announcement for the American Dental Association) > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right > side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On > Behalf Of Amber Berglund > Sent: Tuesday, October 27, 2009 4:26 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: can walk again, ergo I'm starting to set up > my betta bowl > > having just a desk lamp on should be good enough for the little guy, you > probably don't need to close the blinds if it's already dark or nearly > dark > outside when you get home with him. > The basic rule when you acclimate a fish is to do a little water change > every few minutes, slowly adding a little water until you overfill his > cup, > then pour some out and keep adding a little until you've replaced the > entire > cup with your water from your fish tank bowl, that will acclimate him slow > enough to not shock him when you dump out his cup into a fish net and put > him into his new 4 gallon mansion :) My betta has a 10 gallon mansion > with a > dwarf frog for company, I'm sure your betta will love your 4 gallon bowl. > You can get mesh for the top from a hardware store, ask to see what they > have in their "screen" section, like the kind of mesh screens you get for > window screens, they should have something that will work for you. > If they don't have something that is firm and metal (small selection > perhaps), you can always get normal window screening which is bendable and > use a string or large rubber band perhaps to go around the mesh and > keep it > secure on the top of your bowl. This is mainly to keep anything from > getting > dropped into the fish bowl, and to keep your new betta from accidentally > jumping out (which can happen if they get startled from something). > How are you planning to do the water changes? > Do you have a cup that will fit in the opening of the bowl so you can > scoop > out water every few days and add fresh water, or will you have to pour > some > of the water out? I find it's much less stressful on the betta if you > don't > have to pour out his tank and just scoop a little of the water out and get > yourself a piece of maybe 1/2 inch tubing (the clear kind you can get from > your LFS or fish section in walmart) should do, that will be used to > syphon > the gravel weekly. Depending on the size of the gravel you get you > might get > smaller than 1/2 inch tubing (I was making a guess, LOL). Just put one end > in your betta bowl, the other end into a small bucket, or if you don't > have > another bucket another large bowl will work just don't knock it over > like I > would, LOL. Then just suck on the end (not in the betta bowl) and get the > water going through the tube and set it into your other bowl/bucket and > start moving it over the gravel while it's sucking up detritus and water, > with a smaller tube you won't have to worry about sucking up your betta on > accident too ;). > Oh and make sure not to drink your fish tank water when you start your > syphon going, I've done that a couple times and it doesn't taste good, > LOL. > > Amber > > Kathy wrote: > > > > > > SEE MY REPLYS IN ALL CAPS...NO I'M NOT YELLING, JUST MAKING SURE MY > > TYPING LOOKS DIFFERENT FROM YOURS. > > -KATHY > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>, "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" > > <GoldLenny@...> wrote: > > > > > > I know I'm getting in late on this thread. Sorry... had a busy day > > > yesterday. > > > > > > I would find out when the Bettas arrive and plan to be there the > > same day. > > > Find a few that you like as far as coloration and then test feed the > > few you > > > like and see which ones are most willing to eat and seem vivacious. > > > Then make your choice. Remember to S-L-O-W-L-Y acclimate them to > > > your bowl's water as they are shipped in those little cups so the > > > water in those > > cups is > > > likely VERY different from your water... not counting the water > > conditioner > > > that they put in those shipping cups and they have probably been > > living in > > > that water for several days or more. > > > > DON'T KNOW IF THEY'LL LET ME TEST FEED THE BETTAS. I'M GOING THE DAY > > AFTER THE SHIPPMENT. SO THEY SHOULD STILL BE HEALTHY. > > > > > > In dimmed room lighting... or maybe start this when it's about to > > get dark. > > > > > IT WILL BE EVENING WHEN I GET THE FISH BACK TO MY SUITE. I COULD CLOSE > > THE BLINDS AND TURN OFF THE REGULAR LIGHT, JUST LEAVE MY DESK LAMP ON. > > WILL THAT BE DIM ENOUGH? > > > > > I would probably put the cup inside of a larger bowl (big cereal > > bowl?) with > > > your bowl's water in that bowl also. Then add a couple of teaspoons > > of your > > > fish bowls water to the cup and keep doing that every couple of > > minutes for > > > an hour or more until the cup is overflowing. The cup inside of > > > another bowl is a safety precaution in case the betta jumps from the > cup. > > There are > > > six teaspoons in an ounce and if the cup has 8 oz. of water, that > > means 48 > > > teaspoons of water in the cup. Guessing it's a 10 oz. to 12 oz. cup, > > > it will take you up to 24 teaspoons to fill up the Betta's original > > cup. After > > > that, remove a couple of ounces of water from the cup and discard > > > that water. Continue with 4-6 teaspoons (up to an ounce) every > > > couple of > > minutes > > > and after doing that a dozen or so times, the cups water should be > > nearly > > > identical to your fish bowl's water. Pour the cup through a net > > letting the > > > old water go into that cereal bowl and then dip the net into your > > fish bowl > > > to let the fish go free. > > > > I HAVE A 4 CUP GLASS MEASURING CUP. DOES THAT SOUND OK? THAT'LL > > INVOLVE LESS WATER REMOVAL FROM THE BETTA CUP. I WAS GOING TO LEAVE > > THE WATER LEVEL ABOUT 4" BELOW THE TOP OF THE BOWL SO THAT THE OXYGEN > > GETS IN AND OUT OF THE WATER BETTER. WHERE CAN I GET SOME SCREEN OR > > MESH TO PUT OVER THE TOP? > > > > > > Keep an eye on it to make sure it is doing well and keep the > > lighting dimmed > > > enough so that the fish feels more secure but you can still see it > > to make > > > sure it's not in any kind of distress. > > > > > > Remember to leave the water level an inch or two below the rim of > > the bowl > > > and put a screen type cover over the bowl so that the air space at > > the top > > > of the bowl is able to get fresh air. If there is ever a time when > > > your suitemates are going to be using air freshener sprays, Lysol, > > > etc., > > then you > > > would want to cover the bowl with a more sealed top until the junk > > is out of > > > the air... or better yet, try to dissuade them from using that crap > > in your > > > suite in the first place. Open a window if things get funky in the > > suite... > > > or if one of you burn your Ramen noodles or leftover pizza. LOL > > > > > OH, IS IT BAD THAT I HAVE A WALL PLUG-IN AIR FRESHENER? MY ROOM > > STARTED TO SMELL FUNNY WHEN I WAS IN THE CAST, SO I GOT ONE TO HELP > > WITH THE FUNKY SMELL. AND I'VE GOTTEN USED TO IT, TO THE POINT WHERE > > I'M AFRAID MY ROOM WILL SMELL BAD WITHOUT IT. I'M AFRAID OF OPENING > > THE WINDOW BECAUSE I MIGHT FORGET TO CLOSE IT. PLUS IT'S BEEN GETTING > > COLD HERE, SO IT WOULD MAKE THE FISH VERY UNCOMFORTABLE TO OPEN A > > WINDOW. IS IT JUST THE AEROSOL AIR FRESHENERS THAT ARE BAD, OR ARE THE > > WALL ONES BAD TOO? AND CAN I STILL PUT ON MY PERFUME IN THE BEDROOM IF > > THE FISH IS SENSITIVE TO CHEMICALISH SPRAY STUFF? > > > > > As Amber (and maybe others) said, set up the bowl, plants, etc., but > > DO NOT > > > wait three days unless you are stuck with that delay waiting for the > > fish to > > > come in. You can set up the bowl with the water now and give it time > > to get > > > to room temperature and outgas/ingas to stabilize but after adding > > > the plants, I would wait no more than one day for adding the fish > > > UNLESS you have no other choice... such as all the Betta's that come > > > in do not look healthy at Walmart. > > > > LAST TIME I SAW ONE OF THEIR NEW BETTA SHIPPMENTS, OVER HALF OF THEM > > LOOKED REALLY HEALTHY. BUT THE HEALTHY ONES GO REALLY FAST, BECAUSE > > THE NEXT TIME I WAS THERE THEY HAD LIKE FIVE UNHEALTHY BETTAS. > > > > > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>> > > > (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the > > > right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by > > > Year, > > Month) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On > > > Behalf Of Kathy > > > Sent: Monday, October 26, 2009 6:20 AM > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > Subject: [AquaticLife] can walk again, ergo I'm starting to set up > > my betta > > > bowl > > > > > > I'm allowed to do a little walking now! So I can get my fishbowl > set up! > > > Yes I know I'm a wimp not wanting to get my fish until the docs gave > > me the > > > ok to walk, some of you have maintained large tanks while on > > crutches. To > > > remind you folks why I couldn't walk, I had surgery on my foot to > > repair a > > > Jones' fracture (google it) and wasn't allowed to walk between > > September 4th > > > and October 20. To remind you folks why I'm getting a fishbowl, my > > > residince hall at school will only allow a fish in a bowl, no > > aquariums, and > > > nothing electric (e.g. filter or heater) in the bowl. Something > > > about aquariums busting easier and making more of a mess. I've got > > > substrate (glass pebbles) and a little cave in there already (Lenny > > > suggested something for the fish to hide in, so I got the little > > > cave...don't > > worry, > > > all the holes are big enough for a betta). I will get some live > > plants and > > > set everything up, then I will wait a few days for the water to get > > > high quality from the plants being in there. After that, I'll call > > Walmart and > > > ask when their next betta shipment is. They get a shipment of live > > > fish every Thursday, but not all of their shippments include bettas. > > > How long should I wait between the shipment date and going to pick > > > out a > > fish? I was > > > thinking three days so that the fish can get over shipping stress > > but not > > > have to spend too much time at Walmart. > > > I've got the bowl about two and a half feet from a northwest facing > > window, > > > there's some houseplants in between the window and the bowl so it > > only gets > > > filtered sunlight. I've got a tray underneath to protect the > > bookcase it's > > > on. My suitemates keep the thermostat at 75 degrees or higher > > > because they're all considerably thinner than I am and therefore > > > they get cold easily...I find myself getting way too hot in the > > > suite because I'm overweight and therefore more insulated. So the > > > room temperature > > should be > > > fine for a betta if the water temp approximately matches the room > > > temp, right? Is the location of the bowl ok? > > > Anyway, just wanted to share the good news! > > > -Kathy > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 44071	From: bill 1433	Date: 10/27/2009
Subject: Re: GFIs

Hi Lainey,   Maybe it might help you if you remember this simple thought:   It only takes once!   There are much easier ways to leave the planet than through electrocution, Trust me!  Shut-off or un-plug all electric items BEFORE you put your hands in any water.  If you have a power strip with a shut off plug, use it.  With today's submersible heaters, anything is possible.  At a 150 watts a broken heater casing will simply hold you in position until someone shuts off the power------if you're lucky. Why take the chance?  A small electric charge going through the tank MAY NOT harm the fish but it will put a real dent in your future!   Your GFI will protect to its rating but you could still get a "real bang out of life" until it kicks in.  BUT suppose it malfunctions?  So will you!   Please Take Care and remember that electricity has no learning curve.  Be safe, Be Careful and respect it-------------------always, and if in doubt,check, don't guess, you only have a 50% chance of being right! Not very good odds if you ask me.   Bill   --- On Tue, 10/27/09, Lainey Alexander <lainealex@...> wrote: From: Lainey Alexander <lainealex@...> Subject:[AquaticLife] GFIs To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Date: Tuesday, October 27, 2009, 8:03 PM Does anyone know if a GFI outlet with all my aquarium equipment  plugged into it via a power strip will protect me from shock if I  reach into the tank? Or do I need to shut off the power strip each  time I reach into the water? I find it hard to always remember to  shut it off. Lainey http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] ------------------------------------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the home page.  Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com to receive the digest, which includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com for the No E-Mail option where you will still be able to read messages on the group and post replies. Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com to receive individual e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 44072	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 10/27/2009
Subject: Re: Severum Behavior

You need a swimming pool for your fish if you plan on keeping them for the rest of their life spans ;) LOL. I'd definitely suggest thinning out your 55 gallon or seriously upgrading your tank and moving the bigger fish over, but that will only be a short term fix, you will eventually need SEVERAL very large (over 100 gallons) fish tanks to properly house all those giant fish. Gosh don't let your LFS talk you into a red tailed catfish while they're at it, they seem good at talking you into big fish so far ;) LOL. I agree that all fish look cute as babies, and often times it's very hard to resist buying a new and exciting fish, but I've learned the hard way to research first, even if it means that fish will be gone the next time you go back, otherwise you can end up with a monster fish that starts eating everything in the tank one day. I still will not forgive my LFS for talking me into that monster catfish earlier this summer, told me it gets to around 6 inches, yeah right, multiply that by oh... 12 times and then you get the proper size ;) I must admit my jaw dropped at all those big fish sizes and what size tank you have them in, I didn't know that some of those fish got that big (I knew about the pictus and severum's). Perhaps you should remodel the home into a giant fish tank and add on rooms to live in for the humans? ;) LOL Amber Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > > > While your BIG fish are still on the small size, it might seem like your > tank is not overstocked... but it is. A tank should be stocked based > on the > expected adult size of the fish, not based on their current size... unless > it's a temporary home like at a fish store or if in a Q-tank or H-tank > waiting to be moved to a proper sized tank. ALL fish put out hormones, > pheromones, etc. and as these hormone levels build up, fish will > self-stunt > themselves which causes stress to the fish and eventually will cause > health > issues and an early death for most stunted fish. This dilution/removal of > hormones can be partially overcome by doing more frequent, even daily > partial to larger water changes but eventually, these fish CAN NOT live > together long term in your tank. > > The Pictus Catfish grows up to 8". 1/2 way down on > http://fish.mongabay.com/pimelodidae.htm > <http://fish.mongabay.com/pimelodidae.htm> > > The Blood Parrot (a Flowerhorn hybrid.. right?) grows to 12". > http://fish.mongabay.com/flowerhorn.htm > <http://fish.mongabay.com/flowerhorn.htm> > > Each Severum grows to 12". > http://fish.mongabay.com/species/Heros_severus.html > <http://fish.mongabay.com/species/Heros_severus.html> > > The Hump Headed Earth Eater grows to 10". > http://fish.mongabay.com/species/Geophagus_steindachneri.html > <http://fish.mongabay.com/species/Geophagus_steindachneri.html> > > The Frontosa grows to 10" (females) to 14" (males). > http://fish.mongabay.com/species/Cyphotilapia_frontosa.html > <http://fish.mongabay.com/species/Cyphotilapia_frontosa.html> > > Technically, each of these BIG fish should have their own 55G tank (OR > LARGER) to themselves, so keeping them all in the same 55G tank for > anything > more than a temporary holding situation is asking for long term health > issues, various stress issues, stunting issues, and ultimately only one or > two BIG fish left when basic Darwinism (survival of the fittest) takes > over > and one of the fish realizes it cannot live long term with those other > fish > and starts to eliminate them. > > There are also some SERIOUS water parameter issues (regardless to what > your > water is like) where most of these fish prefer softer, low to neutral > pH (6 > - 7.2) water and other fish, namely the Frontosa, prefers really hard, > high > pH (8-9) water. Read all of the above profiles for more info. > > I'm not 100% positive if the above info is the reason for your Severum's > behavior but I would certainly lean towards one or more of the above > issues > as being the cause. > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right > side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) > > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On > Behalf Of gailsugarpants > Sent: Tuesday, October 27, 2009 5:47 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Severum Behavior > > It is the only fish that is acting oddly. > To answer Lenny's questions, i will have to check my water tonight when I > get home. But it's my 55 Gallon Bowfront. It's stocked with: > 3 Emerald Corys 3" > 1 Pictus cat fish 4" > 1 Blood Parrot 4" > 1 Severum 5" > 1 Severum 1" > 5 Tiger Barbs 2" > 1 Earth eater 4" > 1 Frontosa 2" > > I will post my water perameters in the morning. > > thanks. > -gail > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>, "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" > <GoldLenny@...> > wrote: > > > > OK. What are your water parameters? Tank size, stocking, etc. It's > > time for more info now. The clamped fins is usually NOT a good sign for > fish. > > I'm curious how it's moving back and forth with clamped pectoral fins > > though? > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 44073	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 10/27/2009
Subject: Re: GFIs

Gosh one of these days I'm bound to electrocute myself, didn't know PWC's could be so dangerous ;) LOL. Amber Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > > > The GFI (should be GFCI nowadays but GFI is still often used) should > prevent > an electrocution... as long as the GFI is working. It should have a test > button and it's good to test it regularly to make sure it's working. > > Some people even go as far as adding a grounding probe/wire from the water > down to the grounding screw that holds the outlet into the wall > fixture and > that should ground the water in the tank for stray voltage. > > Here's more info about stray voltage and electrical issues in general. > http://www.atlantareefclub.org/forums/showthread.php?t=34410 > <http://www.atlantareefclub.org/forums/showthread.php?t=34410> > http://www.farmertodd.com/library/rkessentials/electricity.asp > <http://www.farmertodd.com/library/rkessentials/electricity.asp> > http://saltaquarium.about.com/od/aquariummaintenancecare/a/aastrayvoltage.ht > <http://saltaquarium.about.com/od/aquariummaintenancecare/a/aastrayvoltage.ht> > m > > Titanium Grounding Probe - > http://www.drsfostersmith.com/product/prod_display.cfm?pcatid=3946 > <http://www.drsfostersmith.com/product/prod_display.cfm?pcatid=3946> > > Last but not least, do not fool with your tank barefooted... > especially on a > concrete floor or wet floor... and do not grab hold of anything metal > while > sticking your hand into the tank. > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right > side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On > Behalf Of Lainey Alexander > Sent: Tuesday, October 27, 2009 7:04 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Subject: [AquaticLife] GFIs > > Does anyone know if a GFI outlet with all my aquarium equipment > plugged into > it via a power strip will protect me from shock if I reach into the > tank? Or > do I need to shut off the power strip each time I reach into the water? I > find it hard to always remember to shut it off. > > Lainey > http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com <http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com> > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 44074	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 10/27/2009
Subject: Re: GFIs

Bill you should call up my uncle and give him a lecture now ;) LOL. As a child he was caught many times trying to put forks into wall outlets, electrocuted himself more than a few times before the age of 18, and more than a few times since then as well ;) He has a hard time remembering to turn off the power before he sticks a screwdriver in there, I'm honestly surprised he's lived as long as he has, must have one very good guardian angel on his shoulder or something ;) I on the other hand am just clumsy, I end up with water on the floor during every PWC I do (I'm just good like that), I never thought about what would happen if I had a faulty heater or other electrical device on the fish tank and I was standing in the soggy spot on the carpet. Amber bill 1433 wrote: > > > Hi Lainey, > > Maybe it might help you if you remember this simple thought: > > It only takes once! > > There are much easier ways to leave the planet than through electrocution, > Trust me! Shut-off or un-plug all electric items BEFORE you put your > hands > in any water. If you have a power strip with a shut off plug, use > it. With today's submersible heaters, anything is possible. > > At a 150 watts a broken heater casing will simply hold you in position > until someone shuts off the power------if you're lucky. > Why take the chance? A small electric charge going through the tank > MAY NOT harm the fish but it will put a real dent in your future! > > Your GFI will protect to its rating but you could still get a "real > bang out of life" until it kicks in. BUT suppose it malfunctions? So > will you! > > Please Take Care and remember that electricity has no learning curve. > Be safe, Be Careful and respect it-------------------always, and if in > doubt,check, don't guess, you only have a 50% chance of being right! > Not very good odds if you ask me. > > Bill > > > --- On Tue, 10/27/09, Lainey Alexander <lainealex@... > <mailto:lainealex%40earthlink.net>> wrote: > > From: Lainey Alexander <lainealex@... > <mailto:lainealex%40earthlink.net>> > Subject:[AquaticLife] GFIs > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Date: Tuesday, October 27, 2009, 8:03 PM > > Does anyone know if a GFI outlet with all my aquarium equipment > plugged into it via a power strip will protect me from shock if I > reach into the tank? Or do I need to shut off the power strip each > time I reach into the water? I find it hard to always remember to > shut it off. > > Lainey > http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com <http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com> > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > ------------------------------------ > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. > ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> > PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT > important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message > MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- > <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. > > If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of unsubscribing, > you can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My > Membership" on the home page. > > Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:aquaticlife-digest%40yahoogroups.com> to receive the digest, > which includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email > > Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:aquaticlife-nomail%40yahoogroups.com> for the No E-Mail option > where you will still be able to read messages on the group and post > replies. > > Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:aquaticlife-normal%40yahoogroups.com> to receive individual > e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 44075	From: bill 1433	Date: 10/27/2009
Subject: Re: GFIs

Here's a bit more for thought Amber. How's about some of these new high-powered lights on the market? Now let's get a few drops of water on one, in the wrong place! Or worse, have the entire top of the tank exposed and these lights clamped on the sides as they are often shown. A wrong move on the owner's part and that thing hits that water, ya know whatcha got? That's Easy! TOAST! Take care, Bill --- On Tue, 10/27/09, Amber Berglund <arberglund@...> wrote: > From: Amber Berglund <arberglund@...> > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] GFIs > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Date: Tuesday, October 27, 2009, 9:22 PM > Bill you should call up my uncle and > give him a lecture now ;) LOL. > As a child he was caught many times trying to put forks > into wall > outlets, electrocuted himself more than a few times before > the age of > 18, and more than a few times since then as well ;) He has > a hard time > remembering to turn off the power before he sticks a > screwdriver in > there, I'm honestly surprised he's lived as long as he has, > must have > one very good guardian angel on his shoulder or something > ;) > > I on the other hand am just clumsy, I end up with water on > the floor > during every PWC I do (I'm just good like that), I never > thought about > what would happen if I had a faulty heater or other > electrical device on > the fish tank and I was standing in the soggy spot on the > carpet. > > Amber > > bill 1433 wrote: > >  > > > > Hi Lainey, > >  > > Maybe it might help you if you remember this simple > thought: > >  > > It only takes once! > >  > > There are much easier ways to leave the planet than > through electrocution, > > Trust me!  Shut-off or un-plug all electric items > BEFORE you put your > > hands > > in any water.  If you have a power strip with a > shut off plug, use > > it.  With today's submersible heaters, anything > is possible. > > > > At a 150 watts a broken heater casing will simply hold > you in position > > until someone shuts off the power------if you're > lucky. > > Why take the chance?  A small electric charge > going through the tank > > MAY NOT harm the fish but it will put a real dent in > your future! > >  > > Your GFI will protect to its rating but you could > still get a "real > > bang out of life" until it kicks in.  BUT suppose > it malfunctions?  So > > will you! > >  > > Please Take Care and remember that electricity has no > learning curve. > > Be safe, Be Careful and respect > it-------------------always, and if in > > doubt,check, don't guess, you only have a 50% chance > of being right! > > Not very good odds if you ask me. > >  > > Bill > >  > > > > --- On Tue, 10/27/09, Lainey Alexander <lainealex@... > > > <mailto:lainealex%40earthlink.net>> wrote: > > > > From: Lainey Alexander <lainealex@... > > > <mailto:lainealex%40earthlink.net>> > > Subject:[AquaticLife] GFIs > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > Date: Tuesday, October 27, 2009, 8:03 PM > > > > Does anyone know if a GFI outlet with all my aquarium > equipment > > plugged into it via a power strip will protect me from > shock if I > > reach into the tank? Or do I need to shut off the > power strip each > > time I reach into the water? I find it hard to always > remember to > > shut it off. > > > > Lainey > > http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com <http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com> > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > ------------------------------------ > > > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when > replying, Thank You. > > > ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> > ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> > > PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that > is NOT > > important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of > the original message > > MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was > re: old subject)" <- > > > <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. > , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. > > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. > > > > If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead > of unsubscribing, > > you can change your delivery option by clicking on > "Edit My > > Membership" on the home page. > > > > Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com > > > <mailto:aquaticlife-digest%40yahoogroups.com> to > receive the digest, > > which includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single > email > > > > Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com > > > <mailto:aquaticlife-nomail%40yahoogroups.com> > for the No E-Mail option > > where you will still be able to read messages on the > group and post > > replies. > > > > Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com > > > <mailto:aquaticlife-normal%40yahoogroups.com> to > receive individual > > e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > > ------------------------------------ > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when > replying, Thank You. > ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> > ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> > PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is > NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of > the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new > subject (was re: old subject)" <- > <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. > , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. > > If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of > unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by > clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the home page.  > > Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com > to receive the digest, which includes up to 25 posts at a > time in a single email > > Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com > for the No E-Mail option where you will still be able to > read messages on the group and post replies. > > Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com > to receive individual e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links > > >     mailto:AquaticLife-fullfeatured@yahoogroups.com > > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 44076	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 10/27/2009
Subject: Re: can walk again, ergo I'm starting to set up my betta bowl

They shouldn't object to you feeding one little pellet to each of the few fish you are interested in. If they haven't just been fed, a healthy fish should readily eat. Fish that will not eat should be reconsidered. Just because they just got the fish in does not mean they'll be healthy. You never know if the shipment sat around in a cold warehouse or truck for days or not... or any other stressors or health issues the fish might have been subjected to prior to shipping. The good thing about male bettas is at least they are kept separated at all times so cross contamination from a weakened fish that got sick is far less likely. I'm not sure that 4" of air space is necessary but if the bowl closes in quickly towards the top, rather than staying more wide mouthed, then you may need that much space to create plenty of surface area but with only one fish in 3G to 4G and the fish being a surface breathing fish, O2 levels in the water are not as critical... and you will also have live plants to boot. As far as scented air fresheners... anything you can smell is air borne and the human olfactory system actually becomes acclimated to smells so the smell is usually much stronger than what you smell. This can be verified by when you first come into a room from outside, you can smell the odors (whether good or bad) more strongly, but after a few minutes, you get *use* to the smell and do not smell the odors any longer (although this does not seem to work when playing the Turtle game http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-26FZIhoyMM .. LOL ... I did some Googling and this seems to be called Dutch Oven on the net, although played slightly differently... lol.. OK.. back to fish) but the fish would still be subjected to the chemical odors and does not get *use* to the smell. Your Betta will be breathing air from the surface so it will be sucking in the pretty smelling DOC's (dissolved organic compounds that make the smell) in the air and this is not a normal thing for fish. This is also why MelaFix and PimaFix have to be drastically diluted (at least 50% or more) when treating a Betta tank as these two medicines put out a strong sweet smell and this causes respiratory issues to the fish when it comes to the surface to breathe. If you want to try something, get an unscented, non-aerosol product that is designed to be sprayed onto fabric, furniture, bedding, etc., to kill odors... like an unscented Febreeze type product... but still be careful about spraying it near your Betta's home. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Kathy Sent: Tuesday, October 27, 2009 12:31 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: can walk again, ergo I'm starting to set up my betta bowl SEE MY REPLYS IN ALL CAPS...NO I'M NOT YELLING, JUST MAKING SURE MY TYPING LOOKS DIFFERENT FROM YOURS. -KATHY --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@...> wrote: > > I know I'm getting in late on this thread. Sorry... had a busy day > yesterday. > > I would find out when the Bettas arrive and plan to be there the same day. > Find a few that you like as far as coloration and then test feed the > few you like and see which ones are most willing to eat and seem > vivacious. Then make your choice. Remember to S-L-O-W-L-Y acclimate > them to your bowl's water as they are shipped in those little cups so > the water in those cups is likely VERY different from your water... > not counting the water conditioner that they put in those shipping > cups and they have probably been living in that water for several days or more. DON'T KNOW IF THEY'LL LET ME TEST FEED THE BETTAS. I'M GOING THE DAY AFTER THE SHIPPMENT. SO THEY SHOULD STILL BE HEALTHY. > > In dimmed room lighting... or maybe start this when it's about to get dark. > IT WILL BE EVENING WHEN I GET THE FISH BACK TO MY SUITE. I COULD CLOSE THE BLINDS AND TURN OFF THE REGULAR LIGHT, JUST LEAVE MY DESK LAMP ON. WILL THAT BE DIM ENOUGH? > I would probably put the cup inside of a larger bowl (big cereal > bowl?) with your bowl's water in that bowl also. Then add a couple of > teaspoons of your fish bowls water to the cup and keep doing that > every couple of minutes for an hour or more until the cup is > overflowing. The cup inside of another bowl is a safety precaution in > case the betta jumps from the cup. There are six teaspoons in an > ounce and if the cup has 8 oz. of water, that means 48 teaspoons of > water in the cup. Guessing it's a 10 oz. to 12 oz. cup, it will take > you up to 24 teaspoons to fill up the Betta's original cup. After > that, remove a couple of ounces of water from the cup and discard that > water. Continue with 4-6 teaspoons (up to an ounce) every couple of > minutes and after doing that a dozen or so times, the cups water > should be nearly identical to your fish bowl's water. Pour the cup > through a net letting the old water go into that cereal bowl and then dip the net into your fish bowl to let the fish go free. I HAVE A 4 CUP GLASS MEASURING CUP. DOES THAT SOUND OK? THAT'LL INVOLVE LESS WATER REMOVAL FROM THE BETTA CUP. I WAS GOING TO LEAVE THE WATER LEVEL ABOUT 4" BELOW THE TOP OF THE BOWL SO THAT THE OXYGEN GETS IN AND OUT OF THE WATER BETTER. WHERE CAN I GET SOME SCREEN OR MESH TO PUT OVER THE TOP? > > Keep an eye on it to make sure it is doing well and keep the lighting > dimmed enough so that the fish feels more secure but you can still see > it to make sure it's not in any kind of distress. > > Remember to leave the water level an inch or two below the rim of the > bowl and put a screen type cover over the bowl so that the air space > at the top of the bowl is able to get fresh air. If there is ever a > time when your suitemates are going to be using air freshener sprays, > Lysol, etc., then you would want to cover the bowl with a more sealed > top until the junk is out of the air... or better yet, try to dissuade > them from using that crap in your suite in the first place. Open a window if things get funky in the suite... > or if one of you burn your Ramen noodles or leftover pizza. LOL > OH, IS IT BAD THAT I HAVE A WALL PLUG-IN AIR FRESHENER? MY ROOM STARTED TO SMELL FUNNY WHEN I WAS IN THE CAST, SO I GOT ONE TO HELP WITH THE FUNKY SMELL. AND I'VE GOTTEN USED TO IT, TO THE POINT WHERE I'M AFRAID MY ROOM WILL SMELL BAD WITHOUT IT. I'M AFRAID OF OPENING THE WINDOW BECAUSE I MIGHT FORGET TO CLOSE IT. PLUS IT'S BEEN GETTING COLD HERE, SO IT WOULD MAKE THE FISH VERY UNCOMFORTABLE TO OPEN A WINDOW. IS IT JUST THE AEROSOL AIR FRESHENERS THAT ARE BAD, OR ARE THE WALL ONES BAD TOO? AND CAN I STILL PUT ON MY PERFUME IN THE BEDROOM IF THE FISH IS SENSITIVE TO CHEMICALISH SPRAY STUFF? > As Amber (and maybe others) said, set up the bowl, plants, etc., but > DO NOT wait three days unless you are stuck with that delay waiting > for the fish to come in. You can set up the bowl with the water now > and give it time to get to room temperature and outgas/ingas to > stabilize but after adding the plants, I would wait no more than one > day for adding the fish UNLESS you have no other choice... such as all > the Betta's that come in do not look healthy at Walmart. LAST TIME I SAW ONE OF THEIR NEW BETTA SHIPPMENTS, OVER HALF OF THEM LOOKED REALLY HEALTHY. BUT THE HEALTHY ONES GO REALLY FAST, BECAUSE THE NEXT TIME I WAS THERE THEY HAD LIKE FIVE UNHEALTHY BETTAS. > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles > referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically > under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) > > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] > On Behalf Of Kathy > Sent: Monday, October 26, 2009 6:20 AM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Subject: [AquaticLife] can walk again, ergo I'm starting to set up my > betta bowl > > I'm allowed to do a little walking now! So I can get my fishbowl set up! > Yes I know I'm a wimp not wanting to get my fish until the docs gave > me the ok to walk, some of you have maintained large tanks while on > crutches. To remind you folks why I couldn't walk, I had surgery on > my foot to repair a Jones' fracture (google it) and wasn't allowed to > walk between September 4th and October 20. To remind you folks why > I'm getting a fishbowl, my residince hall at school will only allow a > fish in a bowl, no aquariums, and nothing electric (e.g. filter or > heater) in the bowl. Something about aquariums busting easier and > making more of a mess. I've got substrate (glass pebbles) and a > little cave in there already (Lenny suggested something for the fish > to hide in, so I got the little cave...don't worry, all the holes are > big enough for a betta). I will get some live plants and set > everything up, then I will wait a few days for the water to get high > quality from the plants being in there. After that, I'll call Walmart > and ask when their next betta shipment is. They get a shipment of > live fish every Thursday, but not all of their shippments include > bettas. How long should I wait between the shipment date and going to > pick out a fish? I was thinking three days so that the fish can get over shipping stress but not have to spend too much time at Walmart. > I've got the bowl about two and a half feet from a northwest facing > window, there's some houseplants in between the window and the bowl so > it only gets filtered sunlight. I've got a tray underneath to protect > the bookcase it's on. My suitemates keep the thermostat at 75 degrees > or higher because they're all considerably thinner than I am and > therefore they get cold easily...I find myself getting way too hot in > the suite because I'm overweight and therefore more insulated. So the > room temperature should be fine for a betta if the water temp > approximately matches the room temp, right? Is the location of the bowl ok? > Anyway, just wanted to share the good news! > -Kathy > ------------------------------------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the home page. Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com to receive the digest, which includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com for the No E-Mail option where you will still be able to read messages on the group and post replies. Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com to receive individual e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 44077	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 10/27/2009
Subject: Re: GFIs

You will only get electrocuted if you are grounded or complete the circuit with enough voltage/wattage. If you are not grounded or do not complete a circuit, you might feel a tingle but nothing more. Now, if you are providing a good ground... BAM... you could get knocked on your butt or be frozen in place. Actually, stray voltage, even in small amounts is dangerous to fish. See those links I posted earlier. It does not electrocute them but it does mess with their sensory organs and especially their lateral line system. All this said, if one is concerned about dying, then all precautions should be taken. Of course, you have a higher risk of dying from many other daily chores, especially when driving your car within five miles of your home. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of bill 1433 Sent: Tuesday, October 27, 2009 8:15 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] GFIs Hi Lainey,   Maybe it might help you if you remember this simple thought:   It only takes once!   There are much easier ways to leave the planet than through electrocution, Trust me!  Shut-off or un-plug all electric items BEFORE you put your hands in any water.  If you have a power strip with a shut off plug, use it.  With today's submersible heaters, anything is possible.  At a 150 watts a broken heater casing will simply hold you in position until someone shuts off the power------if you're lucky. Why take the chance?  A small electric charge going through the tank MAY NOT harm the fish but it will put a real dent in your future!   Your GFI will protect to its rating but you could still get a "real bang out of life" until it kicks in.  BUT suppose it malfunctions?  So will you!   Please Take Care and remember that electricity has no learning curve. Be safe, Be Careful and respect it-------------------always, and if in doubt,check, don't guess, you only have a 50% chance of being right! Not very good odds if you ask me.   Bill   --- On Tue, 10/27/09, Lainey Alexander <lainealex@...> wrote: From: Lainey Alexander <lainealex@...> Subject:[AquaticLife] GFIs To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Date: Tuesday, October 27, 2009, 8:03 PM Does anyone know if a GFI outlet with all my aquarium equipment plugged into it via a power strip will protect me from shock if I reach into the tank? Or do I need to shut off the power strip each time I reach into the water? I find it hard to always remember to shut it off. Lainey http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 44078	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 10/27/2009
Subject: Re: GFIs

I don't do any of these things either and last time I checked, I was still alive also... but like Bill says, it only takes one time so if one is concerned, then it's best to take all precautions. I would worry more about stray voltage and how it affects my fish rather than me. LOL Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Amber Berglund Sent: Tuesday, October 27, 2009 8:18 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] GFIs Gosh one of these days I'm bound to electrocute myself, didn't know PWC's could be so dangerous ;) LOL. Amber Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > > > The GFI (should be GFCI nowadays but GFI is still often used) should > prevent an electrocution... as long as the GFI is working. It should > have a test button and it's good to test it regularly to make sure > it's working. > > Some people even go as far as adding a grounding probe/wire from the > water down to the grounding screw that holds the outlet into the wall > fixture and that should ground the water in the tank for stray > voltage. > > Here's more info about stray voltage and electrical issues in general. > http://www.atlantareefclub.org/forums/showthread.php?t=34410 > <http://www.atlantareefclub.org/forums/showthread.php?t=34410> > http://www.farmertodd.com/library/rkessentials/electricity.asp > <http://www.farmertodd.com/library/rkessentials/electricity.asp> > http://saltaquarium.about.com/od/aquariummaintenancecare/a/aastrayvolt > age.ht > <http://saltaquarium.about.com/od/aquariummaintenancecare/a/aastrayvol > tage.ht> > m > > Titanium Grounding Probe - > http://www.drsfostersmith.com/product/prod_display.cfm?pcatid=3946 > <http://www.drsfostersmith.com/product/prod_display.cfm?pcatid=3946> > > Last but not least, do not fool with your tank barefooted... > especially on a > concrete floor or wet floor... and do not grab hold of anything metal > while sticking your hand into the tank. > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> (Links to any articles referenced in > above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels > and also under Archives by Year, Month) > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On Behalf Of Lainey Alexander > Sent: Tuesday, October 27, 2009 7:04 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Subject: [AquaticLife] GFIs > > Does anyone know if a GFI outlet with all my aquarium equipment > plugged into it via a power strip will protect me from shock if I > reach into the tank? Or do I need to shut off the power strip each > time I reach into the water? I find it hard to always remember to shut > it off. > > Lainey > http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com > <http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com>

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 44079	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 10/27/2009
Subject: Re: GFIs

If you have shoes on, and as long as the shoes aren't soaking wet also, you will not be grounded by just standing in the water but it does get a little more iffy for me if there was a puddle of water on the floor when I was fooling with anything electrical. As far as your uncle, he was fortunate to never be completing the circuit or being grounded himself. While gutting and repairing homes after Katrina, I got a little buzz... or even a WTF-scream caused by the buzz due to some of the DIY things that people would do when running new wiring. For example, NEVER run electrical wiring behind a floor baseboard. It's OK for phone wires, speaker wires or cable coax... BUT NOT COOL for electrical wiring. LOL Fortunately, that one only happened to one of my workers and all they did was make a lot of sparks when they were using the pry bar to remove the baseboard but they didn't even get a buzz. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Amber Berglund Sent: Tuesday, October 27, 2009 8:22 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] GFIs Bill you should call up my uncle and give him a lecture now ;) LOL. As a child he was caught many times trying to put forks into wall outlets, electrocuted himself more than a few times before the age of 18, and more than a few times since then as well ;) He has a hard time remembering to turn off the power before he sticks a screwdriver in there, I'm honestly surprised he's lived as long as he has, must have one very good guardian angel on his shoulder or something ;) I on the other hand am just clumsy, I end up with water on the floor during every PWC I do (I'm just good like that), I never thought about what would happen if I had a faulty heater or other electrical device on the fish tank and I was standing in the soggy spot on the carpet. Amber bill 1433 wrote: > > > Hi Lainey, > > Maybe it might help you if you remember this simple thought: > > It only takes once! > > There are much easier ways to leave the planet than through > electrocution, Trust me! Shut-off or un-plug all electric items > BEFORE you put your hands in any water. If you have a power strip > with a shut off plug, use it. With today's submersible heaters, > anything is possible. > > At a 150 watts a broken heater casing will simply hold you in position > until someone shuts off the power------if you're lucky. > Why take the chance? A small electric charge going through the tank > MAY NOT harm the fish but it will put a real dent in your future! > > Your GFI will protect to its rating but you could still get a "real > bang out of life" until it kicks in. BUT suppose it malfunctions? So > will you! > > Please Take Care and remember that electricity has no learning curve. > Be safe, Be Careful and respect it-------------------always, and if in > doubt,check, don't guess, you only have a 50% chance of being right! > Not very good odds if you ask me. > > Bill > > > --- On Tue, 10/27/09, Lainey Alexander <lainealex@... > <mailto:lainealex%40earthlink.net>> wrote: > > From: Lainey Alexander <lainealex@... > <mailto:lainealex%40earthlink.net>> > Subject:[AquaticLife] GFIs > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Date: Tuesday, October 27, 2009, 8:03 PM > > Does anyone know if a GFI outlet with all my aquarium equipment > plugged into it via a power strip will protect me from shock if I > reach into the tank? Or do I need to shut off the power strip each > time I reach into the water? I find it hard to always remember to shut > it off. > > Lainey > http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com > <http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com> > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > ------------------------------------ > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. > ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , > .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT > that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the > original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: > old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. > > If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of unsubscribing, > you can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My > Membership" on the home page. > > Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:aquaticlife-digest%40yahoogroups.com> to receive the digest, > which includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email > > Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:aquaticlife-nomail%40yahoogroups.com> for the No E-Mail option > where you will still be able to read messages on the group and post > replies. > > Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:aquaticlife-normal%40yahoogroups.com> to receive individual > e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links > > ------------------------------------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the home page. Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com to receive the digest, which includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com for the No E-Mail option where you will still be able to read messages on the group and post replies. Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com to receive individual e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 44080	From: gailsugarpants	Date: 10/28/2009
Subject: Re: Severum Behavior

I have had my Severum for approx 5 or 6 months. She has done well, up until this point. She is actually my biggest occupant right now. And as for the future expected fish sizes. I understand that my fish have the potential to get larger. That is a no brainer. I have a good relationship with my LFS and I tend to change my tanks around a bit. So when I have an overcrowding or size issue, I just take in my fish for credit and get something smaller, rocks or whatever. Here are my water perameters: Nitrate 20 Nitrite 0 Hardness 120 Alkilinity 120 PH 7.2 thanks, Gail

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 44081	From: sevenspringss@wmconnect.com	Date: 10/28/2009
Subject: Re: Severum Behavior

Thanks for supplying how long you've had this fish. Without that info, I wasn't sure if I should assume it was rather new and just not adjusting well to your water parameters. As for your parameters, I find nothing wrong that would indicate adverse conditions for this fish. You haven't supplied an ammonia reading, but if that were high it would be affecting your other fish as well, and especially more intolerant species (Severums are hardier than many). This behavior, while I have not actually witnessed it, does not sound normal, nor is it a mating display of any sort. I'm believing the fish may have some internal disorder that is causing it to behave in this distressed manner. It definitely sounds as though it is being stressed by something, and that something does not appear to be external -- it is not having to get used to your water as being new to it, and unless you have not reported or seen this fish as being on the receiving end of aggression from the Blood Parrot, by process of elimination it would not seem be be anything else. If there were external parasites or disease, at least some of the other fish would have contracted this by now if it were present. This behavior sounds somewhat reminiscent of livebearer shimmy syndrome in which the fish swings back and forth while shimmying in place; this is usually brought on by water conditions not to its liking. I see no connection here to that syndrome though. BTW, what is your tank's temperature? And, have you done any PWC's lately with much cooler water? While still tending to diagnose this as a possible internal issue, we should know how the fish is eating. If it's appetite has slacked off, this would point in that direction and appropriate medication should be used. If not, I'd keep an eye on this fish for another day or two, still being ready to isolate it to a hospital tank for treatment. If its appetite remains healthy, maybe you could post a video so we could see this behavior for a better conclusion. Ray [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 44082	From: gailsugarpants	Date: 10/28/2009
Subject: Re: Severum Behavior

Thanks so much for your positive feedback. My temp for my tank currently runs 74-76 degrees F. When I do my PWC I do try to use warmer water, the temp gets to 78 after my PWC. Then, it evens out to my avg. temp. I am actually going to get a pair of heaters soon, as the temps in Utah are now dipping to 32 outside! And it snowed yesterday :( Since my initial post, my Severum has gone from the neurotic behavior, to hiding. And She is not being terrorized by any other fish, in fact her and my BP are buddies. But I did try to get her out of her hiding spot (with my hand) and she jumped and so did the Pictus! lol And she has been eating, but mostly hiding. thanks, Gail --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, sevenspringss@... wrote: > > Thanks for supplying how long you've had this fish. Without that info, I > wasn't sure if I should assume it was rather new and just not adjusting well > to your water parameters. As for your parameters, I find nothing wrong that > would indicate adverse conditions for this fish. You haven't supplied an > ammonia reading, but if that were high it would be affecting your other fish > as well, and especially more intolerant species (Severums are hardier than > many). > > This behavior, while I have not actually witnessed it, does not sound > normal, nor is it a mating display of any sort. I'm believing the fish may have > some internal disorder that is causing it to behave in this distressed > manner. It definitely sounds as though it is being stressed by something, and > that something does not appear to be external -- it is not having to get used > to your water as being new to it, and unless you have not reported or seen > this fish as being on the receiving end of aggression from the Blood Parrot, > by process of elimination it would not seem be be anything else. If there > were external parasites or disease, at least some of the other fish would > have contracted this by now if it were present. > > This behavior sounds somewhat reminiscent of livebearer shimmy syndrome in > which the fish swings back and forth while shimmying in place; this is > usually brought on by water conditions not to its liking. I see no connection > here to that syndrome though. BTW, what is your tank's temperature? And, > have you done any PWC's lately with much cooler water? > > While still tending to diagnose this as a possible internal issue, we > should know how the fish is eating. If it's appetite has slacked off, this would > point in that direction and appropriate medication should be used. If not, > I'd keep an eye on this fish for another day or two, still being ready to > isolate it to a hospital tank for treatment. If its appetite remains > healthy, maybe you could post a video so we could see this behavior for a better > conclusion. Ray > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 44083	From: Tricia Wilkerson	Date: 10/28/2009
Subject: Chinese algae eaters

I have 2 Chinese algae eaters approx 5-6 in ea. in one of my 55 gallon tanks, I have noticed them today having "dog fights" I have never seen them do this before and have been considering moving one of them to my other 55 gallon tank (which has 4 ottos in it). Would moving one of them be a good idea or is this just a normal behavior for this breed? [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 44084	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 10/28/2009
Subject: Re: Chinese algae eaters

CAE's get aggressive as they mature, definitely to conspecifics (same species) BUT not just to each other. They will even attach to other fish (usually slower swimming fish but a sleeping fish is also susceptible) and *eat* at their slime-coat and skin forming open sores/ulcers. They also do not prefer or eat as much algae as they mature. Here is more reading... Mongabay calls them Indian Algae Eaters, even though the most common name is Chinese Algae Eater but they do NOT come from China so that name is very misleading. http://fish.mongabay.com/species/Gyrinocheilus_aymonieri.html See bottom section, about CAE's, on this page. http://www.thekrib.com/Fish/Algae-Eaters/ Another good site for generally reputable information. http://badmanstropicalfish.com/profiles/profile47.html Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Tricia Wilkerson Sent: Wednesday, October 28, 2009 12:00 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Chinese algae eaters I have 2 Chinese algae eaters approx 5-6 in ea. in one of my 55 gallon tanks, I have noticed them today having "dog fights" I have never seen them do this before and have been considering moving one of them to my other 55 gallon tank (which has 4 ottos in it). Would moving one of them be a good idea or is this just a normal behavior for this breed?

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 44085	From: Miquela D	Date: 10/28/2009
Subject: Re: Chinese algae eaters

When young, the Chinese Algae Eater does fine in a community aquarium, busily going about its business of greedily foraging algae from the glass sides of the tank, the plants, the substrate, and any decor. When it gets older however, it can start to defend a territory and can continually harass tankmates. Adult specimens are often best kept alone. source: Animal World XoXo Miquela D. XoXo Dragon Roses Consulting --- On Wed, 10/28/09, Tricia Wilkerson <trycya@...> wrote: From: Tricia Wilkerson <trycya@...> Subject: [AquaticLife] Chinese algae eaters To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Date: Wednesday, October 28, 2009, 11:59 AM   I have 2 Chinese algae eaters approx 5-6 in ea. in one of my 55 gallon tanks, I have noticed them today having "dog fights" I have never seen them do this before and have been considering moving one of them to my other 55 gallon tank (which has 4 ottos in it). Would moving one of them be a good idea or is this just a normal behavior for this breed? [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 44086	From: gailsugarpants	Date: 10/28/2009
Subject: Re: Chinese algae eaters

I think this is par for the course. My CAE likes to harrass my pictus catfish, or harass and toss snails. After my experience with these, I don't recommend them highly. They are actually a pain, and especially a pain to catch! lol -gail --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, Miquela D <yurchardonnay@...> wrote: > >    When young, the Chinese Algae Eater does fine in a community aquarium, busily going about > its business of greedily foraging algae from the glass sides of the tank, > the plants, the substrate, and any decor. When it gets older however, > it can start to defend a territory and can continually harass tankmates. > Adult specimens are often best kept alone. > source: Animal World > > XoXo Miquela D. XoXo > Dragon Roses Consulting > > > > --- On Wed, 10/28/09, Tricia Wilkerson <trycya@...> wrote: > > From: Tricia Wilkerson <trycya@...> > Subject: [AquaticLife] Chinese algae eaters > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Date: Wednesday, October 28, 2009, 11:59 AM > > > > > > >   > > > > > > I have 2 Chinese algae eaters approx 5-6 in ea. in one of my 55 gallon tanks, I have noticed them today having "dog fights" I have never seen them do this before and have been considering moving one of them to my other 55 gallon tank (which has 4 ottos in it). Would moving one of them be a good idea or is this just a normal behavior for this breed? > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 44087	From: Heather	Date: 10/28/2009
Subject: Re: Chinese algae eaters

I had 1 chinese algae eater in my 55 back when I had my first tanks and he did fine even after getting MUCH bigger. I heard all the rumors of them getting aggressive and not eating algae as they got bigger but again I never had these issue with mine. Huge Hugs~Heather http://www.youravon.com/hbroschayt --- On Wed, 10/28/09, gailsugarpants <gail.johnson2@...> wrote: From: gailsugarpants <gail.johnson2@...> Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Chinese algae eaters To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Date: Wednesday, October 28, 2009, 5:54 PM   I think this is par for the course. My CAE likes to harrass my pictus catfish, or harass and toss snails. After my experience with these, I don't recommend them highly. They are actually a pain, and especially a pain to catch! lol -gail --- In AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com, Miquela D <yurchardonnay@ ...> wrote: > >    When young, the Chinese Algae Eater does fine in a community aquarium, busily going about > its business of greedily foraging algae from the glass sides of the tank, > the plants, the substrate, and any decor. When it gets older however, > it can start to defend a territory and can continually harass tankmates. > Adult specimens are often best kept alone. > source: Animal World > > XoXo Miquela D. XoXo > Dragon Roses Consulting > > > > --- On Wed, 10/28/09, Tricia Wilkerson <trycya@...> wrote: > > From: Tricia Wilkerson <trycya@...> > Subject: [AquaticLife] Chinese algae eaters > To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com > Date: Wednesday, October 28, 2009, 11:59 AM > > > > > > >   > > > > > > I have 2 Chinese algae eaters approx 5-6 in ea. in one of my 55 gallon tanks, I have noticed them today having "dog fights" I have never seen them do this before and have been considering moving one of them to my other 55 gallon tank (which has 4 ottos in it). Would moving one of them be a good idea or is this just a normal behavior for this breed? > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 44088	From: erikaandnewton	Date: 10/28/2009
Subject: heater noise??

so finally set up my 75 gallon (half full)for my frogs. I set it up today (and yes put them in it today, i know not the right way to do it, but a necessity) and at some point while i was standing near the tank i heard the heater come on. I can't say ive ever noticed being able to hear one of my heaters kick on, but maybe ive never been near one when it does. its a 250 watt visatherm, probably a ten year old heater, or more. If i need to replace it i know i can't afford another visatherm at this point so suggestions for a cheaper, reliable heater would be welcome. erika newark de usa

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 44089	From: William M	Date: 10/28/2009
Subject: Re: Chinese algae eaters

This is one of those cheep fish that can get much too large for the average aquarium. Fish such as the CAE and common plecos (plus many others) should have warnings on their tanks to let people know of their potential size and aggressiveness. Or just not be sold in most aquarium stores. --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, Heather <lilredhd1@...> wrote: > > I had 1 chinese algae eater in my 55 back when I had my first tanks and he did fine even after getting MUCH bigger. I heard all the rumors of them getting aggressive and not eating algae as they got bigger but again I never had these issue with mine. > > Huge Hugs~Heather > > http://www.youravon.com/hbroschayt > > > --- On Wed, 10/28/09, gailsugarpants <gail.johnson2@...> wrote: > > From: gailsugarpants <gail.johnson2@...> > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Chinese algae eaters > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Date: Wednesday, October 28, 2009, 5:54 PM > > > > > > >   > > > > > > I think this is par for the course. My CAE likes to harrass my pictus catfish, or harass and toss snails. > > After my experience with these, I don't recommend them highly. They are actually a pain, and especially a pain to catch! lol > > > > -gail > > > > --- In AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com, Miquela D <yurchardonnay@ ...> wrote: > > > > > >    When young, the Chinese Algae Eater does fine in a community aquarium, busily going about > > > its business of greedily foraging algae from the glass sides of the tank, > > > the plants, the substrate, and any decor. When it gets older however, > > > it can start to defend a territory and can continually harass tankmates. > > > Adult specimens are often best kept alone. > > > source: Animal World > > > > > > XoXo Miquela D. XoXo > > > Dragon Roses Consulting > > > > > > > > > > > > --- On Wed, 10/28/09, Tricia Wilkerson <trycya@> wrote: > > > > > > From: Tricia Wilkerson <trycya@> > > > Subject: [AquaticLife] Chinese algae eaters > > > To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com > > > Date: Wednesday, October 28, 2009, 11:59 AM > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >   > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I have 2 Chinese algae eaters approx 5-6 in ea. in one of my 55 gallon tanks, I have noticed them today having "dog fights" I have never seen them do this before and have been considering moving one of them to my other 55 gallon tank (which has 4 ottos in it). Would moving one of them be a good idea or is this just a normal behavior for this breed? > > > > > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 44090	From: sevenspringss@wmconnect.com	Date: 10/29/2009
Subject: Re: heater noise??

Erica, I don't know how cool your tank's room gets in the winter, but I'd just like to point out that 250 Watts for a 75 gallon tank is a bit large -- but not by much -- if it were a full tank. For normal applications where the room might be about 70 o, the accepted recommendation calls for 3 watts per gallon for a heater (or 225 Watts), and this is for a full tank (75 gallons of water). Unless your frogs require much different temperatures than do tropical fish, this would be all that you would need (225 Watts) under these circumstances. I note that you are filling your tank only half-way, however, which would be in the vicinity of around 37 to 38 gallons -- in which case you would need only 110 to 115 Watts of heating unless your room gets colder; a room getting down to 66 o for instance would require your heater capacity to be 125 Watts for this amount of water. Now, for best safety in assuring your water doesn't overheat or cool excessively in the event of heater failure, it's always recommended using two smaller heaters each of about half the total wattage needed. In this way if one sticks on (or fails to come on at all), you will still have the other heater helping to support the temperature near the proper range until you can remedy the situation. Taking into consideration your large surface area for the amount of water (potentially promoting slightly faster heat loss), the maximum amount of heating capacity you would need would be two 75 Watt heaters; two 50 Watt heaters just wouldn't cut it. While this is an added expense, it's far better than having one larger heater sticking on and cooking your frogs. Looking at it in practical terms, multiple heaters are cheap insurance when dealing with livestock. Visi-Therm's Stealth heaters are some of the best, as are Eheim (Ebo) Jager. Acura made a very reliable, slightly less expensive heater only a few years ago but I don't see them around anymore. As an incidental observation, I can't recall ever "hearing" a heater turning on, unless it were a failure of the condensor in the older heaters that interfered with your radio or television reception. Ray [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 44091	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 10/29/2009
Subject: Re: Chinese algae eaters

There's always exceptions to any rules... like when a cat and dog get along or when a mouse fed to a snake is not eaten and lives along side the snake in the same cage... BUT it's far more likely that the dog and cat will fight and the snake will eat the mouse so it's best to follow the rules than to expect an exception and risk causing harm or death to your other pets. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Heather Sent: Wednesday, October 28, 2009 7:48 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: Chinese algae eaters I had 1 chinese algae eater in my 55 back when I had my first tanks and he did fine even after getting MUCH bigger. I heard all the rumors of them getting aggressive and not eating algae as they got bigger but again I never had these issue with mine. Huge Hugs~Heather http://www.youravon.com/hbroschayt --- On Wed, 10/28/09, gailsugarpants <gail.johnson2@...> wrote: From: gailsugarpants <gail.johnson2@...> Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Chinese algae eaters To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Date: Wednesday, October 28, 2009, 5:54 PM I think this is par for the course. My CAE likes to harrass my pictus catfish, or harass and toss snails. After my experience with these, I don't recommend them highly. They are actually a pain, and especially a pain to catch! lol -gail --- In AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com, Miquela D <yurchardonnay@ ...> wrote: > >    When young, the Chinese Algae Eater does fine in a community > aquarium, busily going about > its business of greedily foraging algae from the glass sides > of the tank, > the plants, the substrate, and any decor. When it gets older > however, > it can start to defend a territory and can continually harass tankmates. > Adult specimens are often best kept alone. > source: Animal World > > XoXo Miquela D. XoXo > Dragon Roses Consulting > > > > --- On Wed, 10/28/09, Tricia Wilkerson <trycya@...> wrote: > > From: Tricia Wilkerson <trycya@...> > Subject: [AquaticLife] Chinese algae eaters > To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com > Date: Wednesday, October 28, 2009, 11:59 AM > > I have 2 Chinese algae eaters approx 5-6 in ea. in one of my 55 gallon tanks, I have noticed them today having "dog fights" I have never seen them do this before and have been considering moving one of them to my other 55 gallon tank (which has 4 ottos in it). Would moving one of them be a good idea or is this just a normal behavior for this breed?

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 44092	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 10/29/2009
Subject: Re: heater noise??

What kind of noise? I guess an older heater might click on and off and maybe you could hear it if nothing else was making noise. I do not have that brand but I've never heard even clicking from any of my heaters. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of erikaandnewton Sent: Wednesday, October 28, 2009 9:47 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] heater noise?? so finally set up my 75 gallon (half full)for my frogs. I set it up today (and yes put them in it today, i know not the right way to do it, but a necessity) and at some point while i was standing near the tank i heard the heater come on. I can't say ive ever noticed being able to hear one of my heaters kick on, but maybe ive never been near one when it does. its a 250 watt visatherm, probably a ten year old heater, or more. If i need to replace it i know i can't afford another visatherm at this point so suggestions for a cheaper, reliable heater would be welcome. erika newark de usa

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 44093	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 10/29/2009
Subject: Re: heater noise??

I have heard clicking from my heaters, but only when the room is very quiet when the heater kicks on (light comes on). Mine haven't died after making noise, so you might be okay for now, just keep an eye on the heater and perhaps buy something cheap to have on hand in case it does have issues at some point. Amber Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > > > What kind of noise? I guess an older heater might click on and off and > maybe you could hear it if nothing else was making noise. I do not have > that brand but I've never heard even clicking from any of my heaters. > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right > side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On > Behalf Of erikaandnewton > Sent: Wednesday, October 28, 2009 9:47 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Subject: [AquaticLife] heater noise?? > > so finally set up my 75 gallon (half full)for my frogs. I set it up today > (and yes put them in it today, i know not the right way to do it, but a > necessity) and at some point while i was standing near the tank i > heard the > heater come on. I can't say ive ever noticed being able to hear one of my > heaters kick on, but maybe ive never been near one when it does. its a 250 > watt visatherm, probably a ten year old heater, or more. If i need to > replace it i know i can't afford another visatherm at this point so > suggestions for a cheaper, reliable heater would be welcome. > > erika newark de usa > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 44094	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 10/29/2009
Subject: Re: heater noise??

Amber, Are your heaters fully submerged or do you have the tops of them sticking out the water? Mine are fully submerged and usually hidden behind plants/decorations. I'm wondering if, because they are submerged, this is why I do not hear clicking. I do seem to remember that when I had one that was sticking out the water, I would hear clicking but that was a while back so I'm not positive. Of course, my room is never quiet since my TV is on if I'm in the room which is also my home office so my computer is also on but the speakers are turned down 99% of the time on my computers, unless I am watching something on the computer that needs volume. Also, the waterfall from the HOB makes more gurgling noise that would probably mask any heater clicking also. Erika, I just thought about something from re-reading your post... why do you only have the tank half full? Are these truly aquatic frogs like African Dwarf Frogs or the LARGER African Clawed Frogs or is this set up as a Paludarium where you have land area for other amphibious critters? As far as I know, truly aquatic frogs like ADF's or ACF's, do NOT climb out of the water. If yours are aquatic frogs, then you should probably take full advantage of the 75G of water which would create a 50% less polluted environment for them.... and it would also mean that your heater would not be so oversized as Ray pointed out in his reply. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Amber Berglund Sent: Thursday, October 29, 2009 10:04 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] heater noise?? I have heard clicking from my heaters, but only when the room is very quiet when the heater kicks on (light comes on). Mine haven't died after making noise, so you might be okay for now, just keep an eye on the heater and perhaps buy something cheap to have on hand in case it does have issues at some point. Amber Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > > > What kind of noise? I guess an older heater might click on and off and > maybe you could hear it if nothing else was making noise. I do not > have that brand but I've never heard even clicking from any of my heaters. > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> (Links to any articles referenced in > above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels > and also under Archives by Year, Month) > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On Behalf Of erikaandnewton > Sent: Wednesday, October 28, 2009 9:47 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Subject: [AquaticLife] heater noise?? > > so finally set up my 75 gallon (half full)for my frogs. I set it up > today (and yes put them in it today, i know not the right way to do > it, but a > necessity) and at some point while i was standing near the tank i > heard the heater come on. I can't say ive ever noticed being able to > hear one of my heaters kick on, but maybe ive never been near one when > it does. its a 250 watt visatherm, probably a ten year old heater, or > more. If i need to replace it i know i can't afford another visatherm > at this point so suggestions for a cheaper, reliable heater would be > welcome. > > erika newark de usa

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 44095	From: Dr. Norman Ali Bassam Khalaf	Date: 10/29/2009
Subject: Oreochromis mossambicus bassamkhalafi Khalaf, 2009 : A New Mozambiqu

Oreochromis mossambicus bassamkhalafi Khalaf, 2009 : A New Mozambique Tilapia Subspecies from Wadi Al Wurayah Pools, Emirate of Fujairah, United Arab Emirates.* By: Dr. Sc. Norman Ali Bassam Ali Taher Khalaf-Sakerfalke von Jaffa. *Note: This article was published in "Gazelle : The Palestinian Biological Bulletin". ISSN 0178 - 6288. Number 92, Twenty-seventh Year. August 2009, Sha'ban 1430. pp. 1 - 25. Sharjah, United Arab Emirates. http://emirati-tilapia.webs.com/ Abstract: A new subspecies of Mozambique Tilapia of the genus Oreochromis (Pisces: Cichlidae) from Wadi Al Wurayah pools, Emirate of Fujairah, United Arab Emirates is described. This new subspecies is distinguished from the subspecies Oreochromis mossambicus mossambicus living in Saudi Arabia, Oman and United Arab Emirates, by its distinctive body colouration and the smaller size. It is morphologically and geographically distinct from the subspecies Oreochromis mossambicus mossambicus. The new subspecies was named Oreochromis mossambicus bassamkhalafi Khalaf, 2009. Keywords: Mozambique Tilapia, Emirati Tilapia, Wadi Al Wurayah Tilapia, Bassam Khalaf's Tilapia, Oreochromis mossambicus bassamkhalafi, Freshwater Fish, New Subspecies, Wadi Al Wurayah, Emirate of Fujairah, United Arab Emirates, Arabian Peninsula, Middle East. Introduction: During two field trips to Wadi Al Wurayah, the U.A.E.'s first mountain protected area, located in Al Hajar Mountains, Emirate of Fujairah, United Arab Emirates, on Saturday the 8th August 2009 and Saturday the 15th August 2009, accompanied with my wife Ola and my daughter Nora, I inspected Wadi Al Wurayah pools and waterfall, and after diving in the circa 6 meter deep pool, I saw many Mozambique Tilapia (Oreochromis mossambicus ssp.) swimming in the pool waters. These fish were observed, examined, measured and photographed. Description and Distinctive Features: After examining Oreochromis mossambicus from the pools of Wadi Al Wurayah, I began comparing with the subspecies Oreochromis mossambicus mossambicus living in Saudi Arabia, Oman and United Arab Emirates. The Wadi Al Wurayah new subspecies Oreochromis mossambicus bassamkhalafi Khalaf, 2009, have a smaller size. The specimens measured were between 25 – 30 centimeters. The general body colouration is olive, yellowish to blue-gray with a silvery iridescence. The belly is lighter and may have reddish overtones. The tail fin is with spots. The tail and dorsal fins are edged with red and the pectoral fins are red. At spawning times, the throat of the male is silver-white, while the rest of the body darkens. There are three unclear spots in a horizontal row on the flanks, and six or seven unclear vertical bands on the body. Males are often with an enlarged mouth and a concave head profile. The colour of eyes varies from yellow to dark brown. Oreochromis mossambicus bassamkhalafi have 16 to 20 gill rakers. Distribution: The original habitat of Oreochromis mossambicus (Peters, 1852) is the Limpopo River, Mozambique, East Africa. They have been introduced to various tropical and subtropical waters all over the world. In the Arabian Peninsula, it lives in Saudi Arabia, Oman and the Emirates. The new subspecies Oreochromis mossambicus bassamkhalafi is endemic to Wadi Al Wurayah pools, Emirate of Fujairah, United Arab Emirates. Diet: The Wadi Al Wurayah Tilapias are omnivores that consume detrital material, vegetation with various ranges from diatoms to macro-algae to rooted plants, invertebrates, and small fry. Potential to compete with Native Fish: Oreochromis mossambicus pose threats to local native populations through competition for food and nesting space (Courtenay et al. 1974). This interaction may reduce the biodiversity of the native fishery due to reduction of food availability and/or by the native fish being eaten as prey (Neil 1966, Bruton and Boltt 1975). But in the Wadi Al Wurayah Pools, it has been observed that Oreochromis mossambicus bassamkhalafi was not preying on the local Wadi Al Wurayah Fish Garra barreimiae wurayahi Khalaf, 2009. Etymology / Derivation of Scientific Name: The scientific name Oreochromis: oreos is a Greek word which means "of the mountains" and chroma is also Greek and means "colour"; Mossambicus is Latin for Mozambique; and bassamkhalafi is Latin for my father "Bassam Khalaf" (1938 – 2006). This subspecies of the Mozambique or Common Tilapia is named in honour of my beloved father "Bassam Ali Taher Khalaf" (Abu Ali), who was born in Jaffa, Palestine, on 10 March 1938, and died in Rilchingen-Hanweiler, Germany on 17 February 2006. My father was a saltwater and freshwater fish lover all his life. He kept always aquarium fish in our home, and his great hobby was deep sea fishing. I learned a lot from him, including my first animal knowledge and the need to live with love and respect for all the animals we share our planet with. Conclusion: After studying and examining the Oreochromis mossambicus at Wadi Al Wurayah pools, and comparing with the subspecies Oreochromis mossambicus mossambicus living in Saudi Arabia, Oman and the United Arab Emirates, and referring to many zoological references, and searching the Internet, I came finally to a conclusion that we are in front of a new subspecies of the Mozambique Tilapia from Wadi Al Wurayah pools, Emirate of Fujairah, United Arab Emirates. I gave it the scientific name Oreochromis mossambicus bassamkhalafi, new subspecies. The subspecies name "bassamkhalaf" is Latin for my father "Bassam Khalaf" (1938 – 2006). Oreochromis mossambicus bassamkhalafi, new subspecies: Scientific trinomial name: Oreochromis mossambicus bassamkhalafi Khalaf, 2009. Authority: Dr. Norman Ali Bassam Khalaf-von Jaffa. Common Names: Emirati Tilapia, Wadi Al Wurayah Tilapia, Bassam Khalaf's Tilapia. Holotype: Ombk-1, Male, 25 cm, Dr. Norman Ali Khalaf-von Jaffa's Collection. Location: Wadi Al Wurayah pools, Emirate of Fujairah, United Arab Emirates. Date of capture: 15th August, 2009. Acknowledgments: A Special thanks is due to my wife Ola Mostafa Khalaf, who assisted me with the shooting of the underwater photos for this scientific article; and to both my wife and daughter Nora Norman Ali Khalaf, who shared with me the field trips to Wadi Al Wurayah, and gave me the opportunity to discover a new Emirati Tilapia Subspecies. References and Internet Websites: Abbasi, K. and Sarpanah, A. (2001). Fish fauna investigation in Aras Reservoir and its Iranian tributaries. Iranian Journal of Fisheries Sciences, 10(2):41-62. 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Khalaf, Norman Ali Bassam (1981). Fawa'ed Alasmak. (The Benefits of Fishes). Al-Biology Magazine, Biological Society, Kuwait University, State of Kuwait. Number 1. Sunday 7.6.1981, 5. Sha'ban 1401. pp. 54-55. (In Arabic). Khalaf, Norman Ali Bassam (1982). Samak Al-Coelacanth (The Coelacanth Fish). Al-Biology Magazine. Number 2. February 1982. Biological Society, Kuwait University, State of Kuwait. pp. 14-15. (In Arabic). Khalaf, Norman (Translator) (1982). Al-Miah Al-Mulawatha Tohaded Al-Asmak Bi'ilinqiraad (Water Pollution threatens the Fish Fauna with Extinction). Al-Biology Bulletin. Number 18, Third Year, First Semester, Saturday 6.11.1982. Biological Society, Kuwait University, State of Kuwait. pp. 7. (Translation from German into Arabic). Khalaf, Norman Ali (1983). Al-Samaka Al-`Auljumiyah Al-Naqaqa fi Al-Khaleej Al-Arabi [The Toad Fish (Batrachus grunniens) in the Arabian Gulf]. Bulletin of the Biological Studies Club, Kuwait University, State of Kuwait. First Year, Number 3, 23 November 1983. pp. 10-11. (In Arabic). Khalaf, Norman Ali (Translator) (1983). Al-Tasjeel Al-Hay Al-Awal li-Samaket Kozat Al-Snobar (Monocentris japonicus, Houttuyn) min Al-Bahr Al-Ahmar [The Pinecone Fish (Monocentris japonicus, Houttuyn), A First Live Record from the Red Sea] by: Chaim Kropach. Bulletin of the Biological Studies Club, Kuwait University, State of Kuwait. First Year, Number 4, 7.12.1983. pp. 6-8. (In Arabic). Khalaf, Norman Ali B. (1986). The Schooling of Fishes. Gazelle: The Palestinian Biological Bulletin. Number 9. Fourth Year. Ramadan 1406. May 1986. Department of Zoology, University of Durham, Durham, United Kingdom. pp. 1-13. Khalaf, Norman Ali B. (1986). The Fish Fauna in Van Mildert Pond, Durham City, North East England. Gazelle: The Palestinian Biological Bulletin. Number 9. Fourth Year. Ramadan 1406. May 1986. Department of Zoology, University of Durham, Durham, United Kingdom. pp. 14-20. Khalaf, N.A.B. (1986). The Schooling of Sumatra Barbs (Barbus tetrazona tetrazona) and Minnows (Phoxinus phoxinus). Dissertation, Master of Science in Ecology, Departments of Zoology and Botany, University of Durham, England. September 1986. pps. 59 + iv. Khalaf, Norman Ali B. (1987). The Coelacanth (Latimeria chalumnae) in the Science and Natural History Museum, State of Kuwait. Gazelle: The Palestinian Biological Bulletin. Number 15. Fifth Year. July 1987. Rilchingen-Hanweiler, Germany. pp. 1-8. Khalaf, Norman Ali Bassam (1987). On a Collection of Devon Period Animal Fossils from the Saarland, in the Geologische Museum Saarberg in Saarbrücken, Germany. Gazelle: The Palestinian Biological Bulletin. Rilchingen-Hanweiler, Federal Republic of Germany. Number 15, Fifth Year, Thul Qi'dah 1407 AH, July 1987 AD. pp. 9-10. Khalaf, Norman Ali B. (1987). The Great White Shark (Carcharodon carcharias) from the State of Kuwait, Arabian Gulf. Gazelle: The Palestinian Biological Bulletin. Number 16. Fifth Year. Safar 1408 AH. September 1987 AD. Rilchingen-Hanweiler, Federal Republic of Germany. pp. 1-7. Khalaf, Norman Ali (1989). Qa'ema li-ba'd Asmak Al-Kuwait fi Al-Mathaf Al-`Ilmi Bi-Dawlat Al-Kuwait (A List of some Kuwaiti Fishes from the Science & Natural History Museum, State of Kuwait). Gazelle: The Palestinian Biological Bulletin. Number 19. Seventh Year. December 1989. Bonn 2-Bad Godesberg, Federal Republic of Germany. pp. 3. (In Arabic and English). Khalaf-von Jaffa, Norman Ali Bassam (1991). A Trip to Zoo Budapest, Hungary. Gazelle: The Palestinian Biological Bulletin. Bonn-Bad Godesberg, Federal Republic of Germany. Number 21, Ninth Year, January 1991. pp. 1-4. Khalaf-von Jaffa, Norman Ali Bassam (1991). The Gulf War and its effect on the Arabian Ecosystem (Part One). Gazelle: The Palestinian Biological Bulletin. Bonn-Bad Godesberg, Federal Republic of Germany. Number 23, Ninth Year, July 1991. pp. 1-12. Khalaf-von Jaffa, Norman Ali Bassam (1991). The Gulf War and its effect on the Arabian Ecosystem (Part Two). Gazelle: The Palestinian Biological Bulletin. Bonn-Bad Godesberg, Federal Republic of Germany. Number 24, Ninth Year, August 1991. pp. 1-10. Khalaf-von Jaffa, Norman Ali Bassam (1991). The Gulf War and its effect on the Arabian Ecosystem (Part Three). Gazelle: The Palestinian Biological Bulletin. Bonn-Bad Godesberg, Federal Republic of Germany. Number 25, Ninth Year, September 1991. pp. 1-7. Khalaf, Norman Ali Bassam (1992). Notes on the Biological Ecology of the Marshes in Southern Iraq. Gazelle: The Palestinian Biological Bulletin. Bonn-Bad Godesberg, Federal Republic of Germany. Number 29, Tenth Year, September 1992. pp. 1-9. (In Arabic). Khalaf, Norman Ali Bassam (1992). The United Nations Ecological Report confirms: The Regime of Saddam is destroying the Marshes (Al-Ahwar) Ecosystem. Sawt Al-Kuwait International Newspaper. Saturday 17 October 1992, 21 Rabi'e Al-Thani 1412. pp. 15. (In Arabic). Khalaf-von Jaffa, Norman Ali Bassam (1992). An Introduction to the Animal Life in Palestine. Gazelle. Gazelle: The Palestinian Biological Bulletin. Bonn-Bad Godesberg, Federal Republic of Germany. Number 30, Tenth Year, October 1992. pp. 1-7. (In Arabic). Khalaf-von Jaffa, Norman Ali B. (1993). Al-Mushkilatan Al-Ma'eyah wa Al-Bi'eyah fi Al-Dafah Al-Gharbiyah wa Qita' Ghaza Al-Muhtalain (Ka-Juzu' min Al-Sharq Al-Awsat) [The Water and the Ecological Problems in the Occupied West Bank and Gaza Strip (As Part of the Middle East)]. Gazelle: The Palestinian Biological Bulletin. Number 31. Eleventh Year. December 1993. Bonn, Federal Republic of Germany. pp. 1- 29. (In Arabic). Khalaf-von Jaffa, Norman Ali Bassam (1994). An Introduction to the Animal Life in Palestine. Shqae'q Al-Nouma'n (Anemone coronaria). A Quarterly Magazine Issued by the Program EAI (Education for Awareness and for Involvement). Environmental Education / Children for Nature Protection. In Cooperation with Dept. of General and Higher Education. P.L.O., Palestine. Number 4. Huzairan (June) 1994. pp. 16-21. (In Arabic). Acquaintance Card: Majallet Al-Ghazzal (Gazelle Magazine): The Palestinian Biological Bulletin. Bonn, Germany. Shqae'q Al-Nouma'n (Anemone coronaria). A Quarterly Magazine Issued by the Program EAI (Education for Awareness and for Involvement). Environmental Education / Children for Nature Protection. In Cooperation with Dept. of General and Higher Education. P.L.O., Palestine. Number 4. Huzairan (June) 1994. pp. 51-52. (In Arabic). Khalaf-von Jaffa, Norman Ali B.(1995). Alasmak fi Filistin (Die Fische von Palaestina / The Fishes of Palestine). Gazelle: The Palestinian Biological Bulletin. Number 33. Thirteenth Year. December 1995. Bonn, Germany. pp.1-35. (In Arabic). Khalaf, Ali Bassam (1997). Amir Al-Bahar Al-Arabi (The Arabian Sea Prince) Shihab Al-Deen Ahmad Bin Majed. Magazin der Akademie. Nummer 1. Zu Elke'da 1417 H, Maerz 1997. 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Number 38, Twenty-third Year, February 2005. pp. 16. Khalaf-von Jaffa, Norman Ali (2005). Samak Al-Luchs (Al-Hamoor) or the Orange-Spotted Grouper (Epinephelus coioides) in Palestine (Mediterranean Sea) and the United Arab Emirates (Arabian Gulf). Gazelle: The Palestinian Biological Bulletin. Sharjah, United Arab Emirates. Number 39, Twenty-third Year, March 2005. pp. 1-6. Khalaf-von Jaffa, Norman Ali (2005). Jaffa (Yaffa): The History of an Old Palestinian Arab City on the Mediterranean Sea. Gazelle: The Palestinian Biological Bulletin. Sharjah, United Arab Emirates. Number 39, Twenty-third Year, March 2005. pp. 7-8. Khalaf-von Jaffa, Norman Ali (2005). The Andromeda Sea Monster of Jaffa. Gazelle: The Palestinian Biological Bulletin. Sharjah, United Arab Emirates. Number 39, Twenty-third Year, March 2005. pp. 8. Khalaf-von Jaffa, Norman Ali (2005). The Jewfish (Epinephelus itajara) / Der Riesenzackenbarsch oder Judenfisch (Epinephelus itajara). 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The Rafah Zoo in the Rafah Refugee Camp, Gaza Strip, Palestine : A Story of Destruction by the Israeli Occupation Army. Gazelle: The Palestinian Biological Bulletin. Number 46, Twenty-third Year, October 2005, Ramadan 1426. pp. 1-11. Sharjah, United Arab Emirates. (In Arabic). Khalaf-von Jaffa, Norman Ali Bassam (2005). The Qalqilia Zoo and the Natural History Museum in the City of Qalqilia, West Bank, Occupied Palestine. Gazelle: The Palestinian Biological Bulletin. Number 47, Twenty-third Year, November 2005, Shawal 1426. pp. 1-10. Sharjah, United Arab Emirates. (In Arabic). Khalaf-von Jaffa, Norman Ali Bassam (Member of PALESTA) (2005). Palestinian Scientists and Technologists Abroad (PALESTA). Gazelle: The Palestinian Biological Bulletin. Number 47, Twenty-third Year, November 2005, Shawal 1426. pp. 11-12. Sharjah, United Arab Emirates. (In Arabic). Khalaf, Norman Ali Bassam Ali Taher (2006). Eine Persoenlichkeit aus Jaffa, Palaestina / A Personality from Jaffa, Palestine: Bassam Ali Taher Khalaf (Abu Ali) (1938-2006). Gazelle: The Palestinian Biological Bulletin. Number 56, Twenty-fourth Year, August 2006. pp. 8-19. Sharjah, United Arab Emirates. http://bassam-ali-taher-khalaf.webs.com/ Khalaf-Sakerfalke von Jaffa, Norman Ali Bassam Ali Taher (2006). Ein Besuch im Neunkircher Zoo, Neunkirchen, Saarland, Deutschland / A Visit to Neunkirchen Zoo, Neunkirchen, Saarland, Germany. Gazelle: The Palestinian Biological Bulletin. Number 59, November 2006. pp. 1-25. Sharjah, United Arab Emirates. (in Arabisch / Arabic). http://khalaf.homepage24.de/text_88839638_85658724_59480041_deutsch.html Khalaf, Norman Ali Bassam Ali Taher (2007). Zum 1. Todestag : Eine Persoenlichkeit aus Jaffa, Palaestina / The First Death Anniversary : A Personality from Jaffa, Palestine : Bassam Ali Taher Khalaf (Abu Ali) (1938-2006). Gazelle: Das Palaestinensische Biologische Bulletin. 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(in Arabic). http://ar.wikipedia.org/wiki/%D8%AD%D9%8A%D9%88%D8%A7%D9%86%D8%A7%D8%AA_%D9%81%D\ 9%84%D8%B3%D8%B7%D9%8A%D9%86 Khalaf-Sakerfalke von Jaffa, Dr. Sc. Norman Ali Bassam Ali Taher (2007). A Whale Shark (Rhincodon typus, Smith 1828) caught off the Kuwaiti Coast: The Second Record from the State of Kuwait, Arabian / Persian Gulf. Gazelle: The Palestinian Biological Bulletin. Number 71, November 2007. pp. 1-20. Sharjah, United Arab Emirates. (Abstracts in English and Arabic). http://www.geocities.com/jaffacity/Whale_Shark_Kuwait.html Khalaf-Sakerfalke von Jaffa, Dr. Sc. Norman Ali Bassam Ali Taher (2007). Rhiniodon typus Smith, 1828 or Rhincodon typus Smith, 1829: The Story of a Scientific Name. Gazelle: The Palestinian Biological Bulletin. Number 71, November 2007. pp. 21. Sharjah, United Arab Emirates. http://www.geocities.com/jaffacity/Rhiniodon_Rhincodon.html Khalaf-Sakerfalke von Jaffa, Dr. Sc. Norman Ali Bassam Ali Taher (2007). Whale Sharks in Palestinian Waters: A Whale Shark (Rhincodon typus, Smith 1828) rescued near the Tantura Beach, Carmel Coast, North Palestine: The First Record from the Palestinian Mediterranean Coast. Gazelle: The Palestinian Biological Bulletin. Number 71, November 2007. pp. 22-23. Sharjah, United Arab Emirates. (Abstracts in English and Arabic). http://www.geocities.com/jaffacity/Whale_Shark_Palestine.html Khalaf-Sakerfalke von Jaffa, Dr. Sc. Norman Ali Bassam Ali Taher (2007). Whale Sharks in Palestinian Waters: Whale Sharks (Rhincodon typus, Smith 1828) near Um Al-Rashrash (Eilat) Beach, Gulf of Aqaba, South Palestine: First Records from the Palestinian Red Sea Coast. Gazelle: The Palestinian Biological Bulletin. Number 71, November 2007. pp. 23-26. Sharjah, United Arab Emirates. (Abstract in English and Arabic). http://www.geocities.com/jaffacity/Whale_Shark_Palestine.html Khalaf-Sakerfalke von Jaffa, Dr. Sc. Norman Ali Bassam Ali Taher (2007). An Ocean Sunfish or Common Mola (Mola mola, Linnaeus 1758) caught off the coast of Gaza: The First Record from Palestine, East Mediterranean Sea. Gazelle: The Palestinian Biological Bulletin. Number 72, December 2007, pp. 1-16. (Abstracts in English and Arabic). http://www.geocities.com/jaffacity/Gaza_Ocean_Sunfish.html Khalaf-Sakerfalke von Jaffa, Dr. Sc. Norman Ali Bassam Ali Taher (2008). Cetacea Palaestina: The Whales and Dolphins in Palestinian Waters. Cetacean Species Guide for Palestine. Gazelle: The Palestinian Biological Bulletin. Number 83, November 2008, Thu Al-Qi'ada 1429 AH. pp. 1-14. Sharjah, United Arab Emirates. www.geocities.com/jaffacity/Cetacea_Palaestina.html Khalaf, Dr. Sc. Norman Ali Bassam Ali Taher (2009). Zum 3. Todestag : Eine Persönlichkeit aus Jaffa, Palästina / The Third Death Anniversary : A Personality from Jaffa, Palestine : Bassam Ali Taher Khalaf (Abu Ali) (1938-2006). Gazelle: Das Palästinensische Biologische Bulletin. Nummer 86, Februar 2009, Safar 1430 AH. Seite 21. Sharjah, Vereinigte Arabische Emirate. http://bassam-ali-taher-khalaf.webs.com/ Khalaf-Sakerfalke von Jaffa, Dr. Sc. Norman Ali Bassam Ali Taher (2009). A Longcomb Sawfish (Pristis zijsron Bleeker, 1851) caught off the coast of Dibba, United Arab Emirates, Gulf of Oman. Gazelle: The Palestinian Biological Bulletin. Number 88, April 2009, Rabi'e Al Thani 1430 AH. pp. 1-14. http://dibba-sawfish.webs.com/ Khalaf-Sakerfalke von Jaffa, Dr.Sc. Norman Ali Bassam Ali Taher (2009). Garra barreimiae wurayahi Khalaf, 2009 : A New Blind Cave Fish Subspecies from Wadi Al Wurayah Pools, Emirate of Fujairah, United Arab Emirates. Gazelle: The Palestinian Biological Bulletin. ISSN 0178 – 6288. Number 90, June 2009, Jumada Al-Akhera 1430 AH. pp. 1-15. Sharjah, United Arab Emirates. http://emirati-blind-cave-fish.webs.com/ Khalaf-Sakerfalke von Jaffa, Dr. Sc. Norman Ali Bassam Ali Taher (2009). Flora and Fauna in Palestine. Gazelle: The Palestinian Biological Bulletin. ISSN 0178 – 6288. Number 91, July 2009, Rajab 1430 AH. pp. 1-31. Sharjah, United Arab Emirates. http://flora-fauna-palestine.webs.com/ Khalaf-Sakerfalke von Jaffa, Dr. Sc. Norman Ali Bassam Ali Taher (2009). Oreochromis mossambicus bassamkhalafi Khalaf, 2009 : A New Mozambique Tilapia Subspecies from Wadi Al Wurayah Pools, Emirate of Fujairah, United Arab Emirates. Gazelle: The Palestinian Biological Bulletin. ISSN 0178 – 6288. Number 92, August 2009, Sha'ban 1430 AH. pp. 1-25. Sharjah, United Arab Emirates. http://emirati-tilapia.webs.com/ Khalaf-von Jaffa, Dr. Norman Ali Bassam (2009). Fauna Palaestina – Part One. A Zoological Journey in Palestine, Arabia and Europe between 1983 – 2006 / Fauna Palaestina – Teil Eins. Eine Zoologische Reise in Palästina, Arabien und Europa zwischen 1983 – 2006. ISBN 978-9948-03-865-8. Erste Auflage/First Edition, September 2009: 412 Seiten/Pages. 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Group: AquaticLife	Message: 44096	From: Dr. Norman Ali Bassam Khalaf	Date: 10/29/2009
Subject: Oreochromis mossambicus bassamkhalafi Khalaf, 2009 : A New Mozambiqu

Oreochromis mossambicus bassamkhalafi Khalaf, 2009 : A New Mozambique Tilapia Subspecies from Wadi Al Wurayah Pools, Emirate of Fujairah, United Arab Emirates.* By: Dr. Sc. Norman Ali Bassam Ali Taher Khalaf-Sakerfalke von Jaffa. *Note: This article was published in "Gazelle : The Palestinian Biological Bulletin". ISSN 0178 - 6288. Number 92, Twenty-seventh Year. August 2009, Sha'ban 1430. pp. 1 - 25. Sharjah, United Arab Emirates. http://emirati-tilapia.webs.com/ Abstract: A new subspecies of Mozambique Tilapia of the genus Oreochromis (Pisces: Cichlidae) from Wadi Al Wurayah pools, Emirate of Fujairah, United Arab Emirates is described. This new subspecies is distinguished from the subspecies Oreochromis mossambicus mossambicus living in Saudi Arabia, Oman and United Arab Emirates, by its distinctive body colouration and the smaller size. It is morphologically and geographically distinct from the subspecies Oreochromis mossambicus mossambicus. The new subspecies was named Oreochromis mossambicus bassamkhalafi Khalaf, 2009. Keywords: Mozambique Tilapia, Emirati Tilapia, Wadi Al Wurayah Tilapia, Bassam Khalaf's Tilapia, Oreochromis mossambicus bassamkhalafi, Freshwater Fish, New Subspecies, Wadi Al Wurayah, Emirate of Fujairah, United Arab Emirates, Arabian Peninsula, Middle East. Introduction: During two field trips to Wadi Al Wurayah, the U.A.E.'s first mountain protected area, located in Al Hajar Mountains, Emirate of Fujairah, United Arab Emirates, on Saturday the 8th August 2009 and Saturday the 15th August 2009, accompanied with my wife Ola and my daughter Nora, I inspected Wadi Al Wurayah pools and waterfall, and after diving in the circa 6 meter deep pool, I saw many Mozambique Tilapia (Oreochromis mossambicus ssp.) swimming in the pool waters. These fish were observed, examined, measured and photographed. Description and Distinctive Features: After examining Oreochromis mossambicus from the pools of Wadi Al Wurayah, I began comparing with the subspecies Oreochromis mossambicus mossambicus living in Saudi Arabia, Oman and United Arab Emirates. The Wadi Al Wurayah new subspecies Oreochromis mossambicus bassamkhalafi Khalaf, 2009, have a smaller size. The specimens measured were between 25 – 30 centimeters. The general body colouration is olive, yellowish to blue-gray with a silvery iridescence. The belly is lighter and may have reddish overtones. The tail fin is with spots. The tail and dorsal fins are edged with red and the pectoral fins are red. At spawning times, the throat of the male is silver-white, while the rest of the body darkens. There are three unclear spots in a horizontal row on the flanks, and six or seven unclear vertical bands on the body. Males are often with an enlarged mouth and a concave head profile. The colour of eyes varies from yellow to dark brown. Oreochromis mossambicus bassamkhalafi have 16 to 20 gill rakers. Distribution: The original habitat of Oreochromis mossambicus (Peters, 1852) is the Limpopo River, Mozambique, East Africa. They have been introduced to various tropical and subtropical waters all over the world. In the Arabian Peninsula, it lives in Saudi Arabia, Oman and the Emirates. The new subspecies Oreochromis mossambicus bassamkhalafi is endemic to Wadi Al Wurayah pools, Emirate of Fujairah, United Arab Emirates. Diet: The Wadi Al Wurayah Tilapias are omnivores that consume detrital material, vegetation with various ranges from diatoms to macro-algae to rooted plants, invertebrates, and small fry. Potential to compete with Native Fish: Oreochromis mossambicus pose threats to local native populations through competition for food and nesting space (Courtenay et al. 1974). This interaction may reduce the biodiversity of the native fishery due to reduction of food availability and/or by the native fish being eaten as prey (Neil 1966, Bruton and Boltt 1975). But in the Wadi Al Wurayah Pools, it has been observed that Oreochromis mossambicus bassamkhalafi was not preying on the local Wadi Al Wurayah Fish Garra barreimiae wurayahi Khalaf, 2009. Etymology / Derivation of Scientific Name: The scientific name Oreochromis: oreos is a Greek word which means "of the mountains" and chroma is also Greek and means "colour"; Mossambicus is Latin for Mozambique; and bassamkhalafi is Latin for my father "Bassam Khalaf" (1938 – 2006). This subspecies of the Mozambique or Common Tilapia is named in honour of my beloved father "Bassam Ali Taher Khalaf" (Abu Ali), who was born in Jaffa, Palestine, on 10 March 1938, and died in Rilchingen-Hanweiler, Germany on 17 February 2006. My father was a saltwater and freshwater fish lover all his life. He kept always aquarium fish in our home, and his great hobby was deep sea fishing. I learned a lot from him, including my first animal knowledge and the need to live with love and respect for all the animals we share our planet with. Conclusion: After studying and examining the Oreochromis mossambicus at Wadi Al Wurayah pools, and comparing with the subspecies Oreochromis mossambicus mossambicus living in Saudi Arabia, Oman and the United Arab Emirates, and referring to many zoological references, and searching the Internet, I came finally to a conclusion that we are in front of a new subspecies of the Mozambique Tilapia from Wadi Al Wurayah pools, Emirate of Fujairah, United Arab Emirates. I gave it the scientific name Oreochromis mossambicus bassamkhalafi, new subspecies. The subspecies name "bassamkhalaf" is Latin for my father "Bassam Khalaf" (1938 – 2006). Oreochromis mossambicus bassamkhalafi, new subspecies: Scientific trinomial name: Oreochromis mossambicus bassamkhalafi Khalaf, 2009. Authority: Dr. Norman Ali Bassam Khalaf-von Jaffa. Common Names: Emirati Tilapia, Wadi Al Wurayah Tilapia, Bassam Khalaf's Tilapia. Holotype: Ombk-1, Male, 25 cm, Dr. Norman Ali Khalaf-von Jaffa's Collection. Location: Wadi Al Wurayah pools, Emirate of Fujairah, United Arab Emirates. Date of capture: 15th August, 2009. Acknowledgments: A Special thanks is due to my wife Ola Mostafa Khalaf, who assisted me with the shooting of the underwater photos for this scientific article; and to both my wife and daughter Nora Norman Ali Khalaf, who shared with me the field trips to Wadi Al Wurayah, and gave me the opportunity to discover a new Emirati Tilapia Subspecies. References and Internet Websites: Abbasi, K. and Sarpanah, A. (2001). Fish fauna investigation in Aras Reservoir and its Iranian tributaries. Iranian Journal of Fisheries Sciences, 10(2):41-62. 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The Rafah Zoo in the Rafah Refugee Camp, Gaza Strip, Palestine : A Story of Destruction by the Israeli Occupation Army. Gazelle: The Palestinian Biological Bulletin. Number 46, Twenty-third Year, October 2005, Ramadan 1426. pp. 1-11. Sharjah, United Arab Emirates. (In Arabic). Khalaf-von Jaffa, Norman Ali Bassam (2005). The Qalqilia Zoo and the Natural History Museum in the City of Qalqilia, West Bank, Occupied Palestine. Gazelle: The Palestinian Biological Bulletin. Number 47, Twenty-third Year, November 2005, Shawal 1426. pp. 1-10. Sharjah, United Arab Emirates. (In Arabic). Khalaf-von Jaffa, Norman Ali Bassam (Member of PALESTA) (2005). Palestinian Scientists and Technologists Abroad (PALESTA). Gazelle: The Palestinian Biological Bulletin. Number 47, Twenty-third Year, November 2005, Shawal 1426. pp. 11-12. Sharjah, United Arab Emirates. (In Arabic). Khalaf, Norman Ali Bassam Ali Taher (2006). Eine Persoenlichkeit aus Jaffa, Palaestina / A Personality from Jaffa, Palestine: Bassam Ali Taher Khalaf (Abu Ali) (1938-2006). Gazelle: The Palestinian Biological Bulletin. Number 56, Twenty-fourth Year, August 2006. pp. 8-19. Sharjah, United Arab Emirates. http://bassam-ali-taher-khalaf.webs.com/ Khalaf-Sakerfalke von Jaffa, Norman Ali Bassam Ali Taher (2006). Ein Besuch im Neunkircher Zoo, Neunkirchen, Saarland, Deutschland / A Visit to Neunkirchen Zoo, Neunkirchen, Saarland, Germany. Gazelle: The Palestinian Biological Bulletin. Number 59, November 2006. pp. 1-25. Sharjah, United Arab Emirates. (in Arabisch / Arabic). http://khalaf.homepage24.de/text_88839638_85658724_59480041_deutsch.html Khalaf, Norman Ali Bassam Ali Taher (2007). Zum 1. Todestag : Eine Persoenlichkeit aus Jaffa, Palaestina / The First Death Anniversary : A Personality from Jaffa, Palestine : Bassam Ali Taher Khalaf (Abu Ali) (1938-2006). Gazelle: Das Palaestinensische Biologische Bulletin. Nummer 62, Februar 2007, Muharram 1428 AH. Seite 11. Sharjah, Vereinigte Arabische Emirate. http://bassam-ali-taher-khalaf.webs.com/ Khalaf-Sakerfalke von Jaffa, Norman Ali Bassam Ali Taher (Gründer) (seit Juni 2007). Yahoo! Deutschland Group: Fauna Palaestina. http://de.groups.yahoo.com/group/Fauna_Palaestina/ Khalaf-Sakerfalke von Jaffa, Norman Ali Bassam Ali Taher (Gründer) (seit August 2007). Haie – Sharks Yahoo! Deutschland Group. http://de.groups.yahoo.com/group/Haie_Sharks/ Khalaf-Sakerfalke von Jaffa, Norman Ali Bassam Ali Taher (Gründer) (seit September 2007). Yahoo! Deutschland Group: Fauna Arabica. http://de.groups.yahoo.com/group/Fauna_Arabica/ Khalaf-Sakerfalke von Jaffa, Norman Ali Bassam Ali Taher (2007). Haywanat Filistin (Fauna of Palestine). Wikipedia, Al-Mawsu'a Al-Hurra (The Free Encyclopedia). Gazelle: The Palestinian Biological Bulletin. Number 69, Twenty-fifth Year, September 2007 CE, Sha'ban 1428 AH. pp. 1-4. (in Arabic). http://ar.wikipedia.org/wiki/%D8%AD%D9%8A%D9%88%D8%A7%D9%86%D8%A7%D8%AA_%D9%81%D\ 9%84%D8%B3%D8%B7%D9%8A%D9%86 Khalaf-Sakerfalke von Jaffa, Dr. Sc. Norman Ali Bassam Ali Taher (2007). A Whale Shark (Rhincodon typus, Smith 1828) caught off the Kuwaiti Coast: The Second Record from the State of Kuwait, Arabian / Persian Gulf. Gazelle: The Palestinian Biological Bulletin. Number 71, November 2007. pp. 1-20. Sharjah, United Arab Emirates. (Abstracts in English and Arabic). http://www.geocities.com/jaffacity/Whale_Shark_Kuwait.html Khalaf-Sakerfalke von Jaffa, Dr. Sc. Norman Ali Bassam Ali Taher (2007). Rhiniodon typus Smith, 1828 or Rhincodon typus Smith, 1829: The Story of a Scientific Name. Gazelle: The Palestinian Biological Bulletin. Number 71, November 2007. pp. 21. Sharjah, United Arab Emirates. http://www.geocities.com/jaffacity/Rhiniodon_Rhincodon.html Khalaf-Sakerfalke von Jaffa, Dr. Sc. Norman Ali Bassam Ali Taher (2007). Whale Sharks in Palestinian Waters: A Whale Shark (Rhincodon typus, Smith 1828) rescued near the Tantura Beach, Carmel Coast, North Palestine: The First Record from the Palestinian Mediterranean Coast. Gazelle: The Palestinian Biological Bulletin. Number 71, November 2007. pp. 22-23. Sharjah, United Arab Emirates. (Abstracts in English and Arabic). http://www.geocities.com/jaffacity/Whale_Shark_Palestine.html Khalaf-Sakerfalke von Jaffa, Dr. Sc. Norman Ali Bassam Ali Taher (2007). Whale Sharks in Palestinian Waters: Whale Sharks (Rhincodon typus, Smith 1828) near Um Al-Rashrash (Eilat) Beach, Gulf of Aqaba, South Palestine: First Records from the Palestinian Red Sea Coast. Gazelle: The Palestinian Biological Bulletin. Number 71, November 2007. pp. 23-26. Sharjah, United Arab Emirates. (Abstract in English and Arabic). http://www.geocities.com/jaffacity/Whale_Shark_Palestine.html Khalaf-Sakerfalke von Jaffa, Dr. Sc. Norman Ali Bassam Ali Taher (2007). An Ocean Sunfish or Common Mola (Mola mola, Linnaeus 1758) caught off the coast of Gaza: The First Record from Palestine, East Mediterranean Sea. Gazelle: The Palestinian Biological Bulletin. Number 72, December 2007, pp. 1-16. (Abstracts in English and Arabic). http://www.geocities.com/jaffacity/Gaza_Ocean_Sunfish.html Khalaf-Sakerfalke von Jaffa, Dr. Sc. Norman Ali Bassam Ali Taher (2008). Cetacea Palaestina: The Whales and Dolphins in Palestinian Waters. Cetacean Species Guide for Palestine. Gazelle: The Palestinian Biological Bulletin. Number 83, November 2008, Thu Al-Qi'ada 1429 AH. pp. 1-14. Sharjah, United Arab Emirates. www.geocities.com/jaffacity/Cetacea_Palaestina.html Khalaf, Dr. Sc. Norman Ali Bassam Ali Taher (2009). Zum 3. Todestag : Eine Persönlichkeit aus Jaffa, Palästina / The Third Death Anniversary : A Personality from Jaffa, Palestine : Bassam Ali Taher Khalaf (Abu Ali) (1938-2006). Gazelle: Das Palästinensische Biologische Bulletin. Nummer 86, Februar 2009, Safar 1430 AH. Seite 21. Sharjah, Vereinigte Arabische Emirate. http://bassam-ali-taher-khalaf.webs.com/ Khalaf-Sakerfalke von Jaffa, Dr. Sc. Norman Ali Bassam Ali Taher (2009). A Longcomb Sawfish (Pristis zijsron Bleeker, 1851) caught off the coast of Dibba, United Arab Emirates, Gulf of Oman. Gazelle: The Palestinian Biological Bulletin. Number 88, April 2009, Rabi'e Al Thani 1430 AH. pp. 1-14. http://dibba-sawfish.webs.com/ Khalaf-Sakerfalke von Jaffa, Dr.Sc. Norman Ali Bassam Ali Taher (2009). Garra barreimiae wurayahi Khalaf, 2009 : A New Blind Cave Fish Subspecies from Wadi Al Wurayah Pools, Emirate of Fujairah, United Arab Emirates. Gazelle: The Palestinian Biological Bulletin. ISSN 0178 – 6288. Number 90, June 2009, Jumada Al-Akhera 1430 AH. pp. 1-15. Sharjah, United Arab Emirates. http://emirati-blind-cave-fish.webs.com/ Khalaf-Sakerfalke von Jaffa, Dr. Sc. Norman Ali Bassam Ali Taher (2009). Flora and Fauna in Palestine. Gazelle: The Palestinian Biological Bulletin. ISSN 0178 – 6288. Number 91, July 2009, Rajab 1430 AH. pp. 1-31. Sharjah, United Arab Emirates. http://flora-fauna-palestine.webs.com/ Khalaf-Sakerfalke von Jaffa, Dr. Sc. Norman Ali Bassam Ali Taher (2009). Oreochromis mossambicus bassamkhalafi Khalaf, 2009 : A New Mozambique Tilapia Subspecies from Wadi Al Wurayah Pools, Emirate of Fujairah, United Arab Emirates. Gazelle: The Palestinian Biological Bulletin. ISSN 0178 – 6288. Number 92, August 2009, Sha'ban 1430 AH. pp. 1-25. Sharjah, United Arab Emirates. http://emirati-tilapia.webs.com/ Khalaf-von Jaffa, Dr. Norman Ali Bassam (2009). Fauna Palaestina – Part One. A Zoological Journey in Palestine, Arabia and Europe between 1983 – 2006 / Fauna Palaestina – Teil Eins. Eine Zoologische Reise in Palästina, Arabien und Europa zwischen 1983 – 2006. ISBN 978-9948-03-865-8. Erste Auflage/First Edition, September 2009: 412 Seiten/Pages. Self Publisher: Dr. Norman Ali Bassam Khalaf-von Jaffa, Sharjah, United Arab Emirates & Rilchingen-Hanweiler, Bundesrepublik Deutschland. http://dr-norman-ali-khalaf-books.webs.com/faunapalaestinapart1.htm Dr. Sc. Norman Ali Bassam Ali Taher Khalaf-Sakerfalke von Jaffa, Zoologist, Ecologist and Geologist : The Scientific References (1980-2009). http://dr-norman-ali-khalaf-references.webs.com/ Knaggs E. H. (1977). Status of the genus Tilapia in California's estuarine and marine waters. California-Nevada wildlife Transactions 1977:60-67. Krupp, F. (1983). Fishes of Saudi Arabia. Freshwater Fishes of Saudi Arabia and Adjacent Regions of the Arabian Peninsula. Fauna of Saudi Arabia, 5:568-636. Krupp, F. and Schneider, W. (1989). The fishes of the Jordan River drainage basin and Azraq Oasis. Fauna of Saudi Arabia, 10:347-416. Kuronoma, K. and Abe, Y. (1986). Fishes of the Arabian Gulf. Kuwait Institute for Scientific Research, State of Kuwait. xiii + 357 pp., 30 plates. Lee D. S., Gilbert C. R., Hocutt C. H., Jenkins R. E., McAllister D. E., and J. R. Stauffer, Jr. (1980). Atlas of North American Freshwater Fishes. North Carolina State Museum of Natural History, Raleigh, NC. 854 p. Lindner, Jessica (2009). Garra barreimiae barreimiae Fowler & Steinitz 1956. AquaNet Lexikon. www.aqua-shop24.de/content/lexikon/a108cd1d-063b-4226-8c1b-8f2703321c25?t=1 List of Freshwater Fishes for Saudi Arabia. http://fish.mongabay.com/data/Saudi_Arabia.htm List of Freshwater Fishes for United Arab Emirates. http://fish.mongabay.com/data/United_Arab_Emirates.htm Mahdi, N. (1962). Fishes of Iraq. Ministry of Education, Baghdad. 82 pp. Maulood, B. K., Hinton, G. C. F., Kamees, H. S., Saleh, F. A. K., Shaban, A. A. and Al Shahwani, S. M. H. (1979). An ecological survey of some aquatic ecosystems in southern Iraq. Tropical Ecology, 20(1):27-40. Mietle, P. L. (1967). The fisheries of the Near East region. Fisheries Circular, Food and Agriculture Organization, 112:140 pp. Moçambique-Maulbrüter. http://tierdoku.com/index.php?title=Mo%C3%A7ambique-Maulbr%C3%BCter Mook D. (1983). Responses of common fouling organisms in the Indian River, Florida, to various predation and disturbance intensities. Estuaries 6:372-379. Moyle P.B. (1976). Inland fishes of California. University of California Press, Berkeley, CA. 330 p. Mozambique Mouth Brooder Oreochromis mossambicus. http://fish.mongabay.com/species/Oreochromis_mossambicus.html Neil E.H. (1966). Observations on the behavior of Tilapia mossambica (Pisces, Cichlidae) in Hawaiian ponds. Copeia 1966:50-56. Nico, L. (2006). Oreochromis mossambicus. USGS Nonindigenous Aquatic Species Database, Gainesville, FL. Oreochromis aureus (Israeli tilapia). http://cdserver2.ru.ac.za/cd/011120_1/Aqua/SSA/oaureus.htm Oreochromis aureus blue tilapia. www.bio.txstate.edu/~tbonner/txfishes/oreochromis%20aureus.htm Oreochromis mossambicus (Peters, 1852). http://nis.gsmfc.org/nis_factsheet2.php?toc_id=195 Oreochromis mossambicus (Weißkehlmaulbrüter). www.aquariumforum.de/showthread.php?t=14745 Oreochromis mossambicus. www.cabicompendium.org/NamesLists/AC/Full/OREOMO.htm Oreochromis mossambicus. http://theaquariumwiki.com/Oreochromis_mossambicus Oreochromis mossambicus (fish). www.issg.org/database/species/ecology.asp?si=131 Oreochromis mossambicus. www.sms.si.edu/IRLspec/Oreochromis_mossambicus.htm Oreochromis mossambicus. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oreochromis_mossambicus Pearce, F. (1993). Draining life from Iraq's marshes. New Scientist, 138(1869):11-12. Pearce, F. (2001). Iraqi wetlands face total destruction. New Scientist, 170(2291):4-5. Philby, H. St. J. (1959). The eastern marshes of Mesopotamia. Geographical Journal, 125(1):65-69. Price, E. E., J. R. Stauffer, Jr., and M. C. Swift (1985). Effect of temperature on growth of juvenile Oreochromis mossambicus and Sarotherodon melanotheron. Environmental Biology of Fishes 13(2):149-152. Rawi, A. H. A., Obaidi, S. and Zaki, S. (1975). Preliminary list of fishes from the Little Zab River. Iraqi Science Conference, pp. 1-7 (abstract). Relyea, K. (1981). Inshore Fishes of the Arabian Gulf. George Allen & Unwin, London. 149 pp. Riedel R., and B.A. Costa-Pierce (2005). Feeding ecology of Salton Sea Tilapia (Oreochromis spp.). Bulletin of the Southern California Academy of Sciences 104:26-36. Rögl, F. (1999). Oligocene and Miocene palaeogeography and stratigraphy of the circum-Mediterranean region, p. 475-500. In: Whybrow, P. J. and Hill, A. (Eds.). Fossil Vertebrates of Arabia with Emphasis on the Late Miocene Faunas, Geology, and Palaeoenvironments of the Emirate of Abu Dhabi, United Arab Emirates. Yale University Press, New Haven and London. xxv + 523 pp., 40 pp. Salman, N. (1983). Fish marketing in Fao fish market. The Arab Gulf Journal, 15(1):173-183. (In Arabic). Scientific Names/ Latin Names. www.petfrd.com/forum/showthread.php?t=5681 Shafland, P. L. (1996). Exotic Fishes of Florida-1994. Reviews in Fisheries Science 4(2):101-122. Shafland, P. L. and J. M. Pestrak (1982). Lower lethal temperatures for fourteen non-native fishes in Florida. Environmental Biology of Fishes 7(2):139-156. Shapovalov L., Cordone A. J., and W.A. Dill (1981). A list of freshwater and anadromous fishes of California. California Fish and Game 67:4-38. Smith-Vaniz, W. F. (1968). Freshwater fishes of Alabama. Auburn University Agricultural Experiment Station, 211 pages. Swift C.C., Haglund T.R., Ruiz M., and R.N. Fisher (1993). The status and distribution of the freshwater fishes of southern California. Bulletin of the Southern California Academy of Science 92:101-167. The cichlids of Ein-Feshkha springs I. Tilapia aurea exul (Steinitz). www.springerlink.com/content/q77l2r015h607u1n/ Tilapia Oreochromis mossambicus. www.aquaticcommunity.com/tilapia/Oreochromis-mossambicus.php Tilmant, J.T. (1999). Management of nonindigenous aquatic fish in the U.S. National Park System. National Park Service. 50 p. Trewevas E. (1983). Tilapiine Fishes of The Genera Sarotherodon, Oreochromis and Danakilia. British Museum of Natural History, Publication Number 878.Comstock Publishing Associates. Ithaca, New York. 583 p. Trewevas, E. (1968). The Name and Natural Distribution of the "Tilapia from Zanzibar" (Pisces, Cichlidae). FAO Fisheries Reports 44(5):246-254. Van der Waal, Dr. Ben. University of Venda. Another fish on its way to extinction? www.scienceinafrica.co.za/2002/january/tilapia.htm Von den Driesch, A. (1986). Fischknochen aus Abu Salabikh/Iraq. Iraq, 48:31-38. Weißkehlbarsch (Oreochromis mossambicus) - Haltung im Aquarium. www.aqualistix.info/Cichlidae/zierfische/Oreochromis+mossambicus.html Whiteside, B. G. (1975. Additional distribution notes on the Mozambique tilapia in Texas. Texas Journal of Science 26(3/4):620. Wikipedia. Oreochromis mossambicus. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oreochromis_mossambicus

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 44097	From: Lisa	Date: 10/29/2009
Subject: Mollys sore eye - updated

When i woke up this morning, i had a look into my tank to check on my molly. And i am sad to report that i found it had passed on. :( I removed it from the water quickly, in hopes that what ever has killed it, has not been passed on to the rest of my fish. I will continue to keep a close eye on them all. And will let you know if i have any further problems. Lisa (Australia)

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 44098	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 10/29/2009
Subject: Re: heater noise??

I have a couple heaters only mostly submerged (with the top nob controller sticking out so I can adjust it), but the ones in my 125 gallon are fully submerged and oddly enough those are the ones I've heard clicking in the past. Also, is it a bad thing to have an overpowered heater? Seems like it just wouldn't turn on as often... but that's just my theory ;) LOL Amber Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > > > Amber, > > Are your heaters fully submerged or do you have the tops of them sticking > out the water? > > Mine are fully submerged and usually hidden behind plants/decorations. I'm > wondering if, because they are submerged, this is why I do not hear > clicking. I do seem to remember that when I had one that was sticking out > the water, I would hear clicking but that was a while back so I'm not > positive. > > Of course, my room is never quiet since my TV is on if I'm in the room > which > is also my home office so my computer is also on but the speakers are > turned > down 99% of the time on my computers, unless I am watching something > on the > computer that needs volume. Also, the waterfall from the HOB makes more > gurgling noise that would probably mask any heater clicking also. > > Erika, > > I just thought about something from re-reading your post... why do you > only > have the tank half full? Are these truly aquatic frogs like African Dwarf > Frogs or the LARGER African Clawed Frogs or is this set up as a Paludarium > where you have land area for other amphibious critters? As far as I know, > truly aquatic frogs like ADF's or ACF's, do NOT climb out of the water. If > yours are aquatic frogs, then you should probably take full advantage > of the > 75G of water which would create a 50% less polluted environment for > them.... > and it would also mean that your heater would not be so oversized as Ray > pointed out in his reply. > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right > side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On > Behalf Of Amber Berglund > Sent: Thursday, October 29, 2009 10:04 AM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] heater noise?? > > I have heard clicking from my heaters, but only when the room is very > quiet > when the heater kicks on (light comes on). Mine haven't died after making > noise, so you might be okay for now, just keep an eye on the heater and > perhaps buy something cheap to have on hand in case it does have issues at > some point. > > Amber > > Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > > > > > > What kind of noise? I guess an older heater might click on and off and > > maybe you could hear it if nothing else was making noise. I do not > > have that brand but I've never heard even clicking from any of my > heaters. > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>> > (Links to any articles referenced in > > above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels > > and also under Archives by Year, Month) > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On Behalf Of erikaandnewton > > Sent: Wednesday, October 28, 2009 9:47 PM > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > Subject: [AquaticLife] heater noise?? > > > > so finally set up my 75 gallon (half full)for my frogs. I set it up > > today (and yes put them in it today, i know not the right way to do > > it, but a > > necessity) and at some point while i was standing near the tank i > > heard the heater come on. I can't say ive ever noticed being able to > > hear one of my heaters kick on, but maybe ive never been near one when > > it does. its a 250 watt visatherm, probably a ten year old heater, or > > more. If i need to replace it i know i can't afford another visatherm > > at this point so suggestions for a cheaper, reliable heater would be > > welcome. > > > > erika newark de usa > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 44099	From: erikaandnewton	Date: 10/29/2009
Subject: Re: heater noise??

<< Erica, I don't know how cool your tank's room gets in the winter, but I'd just like to point out that 250 Watts for a 75 gallon tank is a bit large but not by much -- if it were a full tank. For normal applications where the room might be about 70 o, the accepted recommendation calls for 3 watts per gallon for a heater (or 225 Watts), and this is for a full tank (75 gallons of water). Unless your frogs require much different temperatures than do tropical fish, this would be all that you would need (225 Watts) under these circumstances.>> I don't know how cold my room gets either;0)New house. I can tell you its not 70... at best it would be 63 on the coolest, but thats probably even a stretch because its a basement type room. Although...I was always told 5 watts per gallon which yes does make my heater too large, but 1. i'm using what i have on hand 2. figured a bigger heater might not have to work as hard. the heater is making a sort of electric noise and, assuming my thermometer is correct, it does not appear to be working properly. I had it set for 75 and after 24 hours the tank was only @ 70 I will dig out some boxes and look for my smaller heaters. erika newark de

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 44100	From: erikaandnewton	Date: 10/29/2009
Subject: Re: heater noise??

Actully lenny, they are neither;-) they are nigerian clawed frogs-silurana tropicalis. bigger than dwarf smaller than african clawed. now African clawed frogs have been known to climb out of the tank, as a matter of fact when i had my african clawed frogs thats how i got my first one. he had been a classroom pet and when they came back to school from weekend break they found him on the floor. they brought him to the vet i worked at to be euthanized. we decided to save him instead. He was about 16 when he finally moved on. so its usually recommended to keep the tank about 3/4 full. Or a tight fitting lid. Now I know a lot of people keep these types of frogs in full tanks, and for african claweds that doesn't bother me because they are so large. personally i don't like to see the dwarfs in full tanks. They don't come from deep waters and they kinda like to hang out on the bottom doing their thing and every once in a while blip to the top for a nip of air. I think one gets more natural behavior keeping them in shallower water. Now my particular frogs were 14 when i adopted them 3 years ago so i want air to be easier for them to reach;-) my ultimate goal for the tank is aschool of cory cats and... well thats all i know as a definite:-) have to wait for the frogs to move on though. for now, I'll have fun putting plants in there and keeping the guppies stocked erika newark de > Erika, > > I just thought about something from re-reading your post... why do you only > have the tank half full? Are these truly aquatic frogs like African Dwarf > Frogs or the LARGER African Clawed Frogs or is this set up as a Paludarium > where you have land area for other amphibious critters? As far as I know, > truly aquatic frogs like ADF's or ACF's, do NOT climb out of the water. If > yours are aquatic frogs, then you should probably take full advantage of the > 75G of water which would create a 50% less polluted environment for them.... > and it would also mean that your heater would not be so oversized as Ray > pointed out in his reply. >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 44101	From: sevenspringss@wmconnect.com	Date: 10/29/2009
Subject: Re: heater noise??

Amber, An "overpowered" (higher wattage than the tank size calls for) heater can cook your fish if it gets stuck on, which can and will happen from time to time, even with the best of them. The better heaters may not malfunction as often, and may be considered safer, but they can still stay in the operating mode indefinity on occasions. This is why it's much safer to have two smaller heaters totalling your required wattage ---- and not above your required wattage ---- to ensure adequate heating yet not too much from any one of them that it could cause overheating if it stuck. A heater will turn on as often as the ambient room temperature pulls enough heat out of the tank to drop the temperature below the heater's thermostat setting -- regardless of the size heater being used. A heater, regardless of size, has no control over how fast heat is being drawn out of a tank, except to replace it as often as it's thermostat engages when enough heat has been lost to cause it to re-engage. A larger heater will replace this lost heat at a much faster rate, but it will only replace as much heat as it's thermostat is set for. As soon as the ambient temperature draws enough heat from the tank again to cause the heater's thermostat to re-engage, it will again replace the lost heat, but because it can replace it faster does not mean that it can prevent the ambient temperature from pulling the added heat out of the tank once again. It will turn itself on as often as necessary to maintain its setting (it CAN'T add MORE heat than its pre-set temperature in attempts to not turn on as often). Ray [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 44102	From: sevenspringss@wmconnect.com	Date: 10/29/2009
Subject: Re: heater noise??

Erika, With a room temperature of 63 o, you obviously would need more heating wattage -- but again, as two smaller heaters rather than one large one. The 3 Watts per gallon I mentioned is a long-established figure going back many (7) decades, for the "average" maintained temperature room -- which is figured to be in the vicinity of 70 o as a Winter setting -- and is meant to raise the water temperature 7.5 o above this room temperature, so in a room of 70 o, this 3 Watts per gallon will ensure a tank temperature of 77.5 o. It is only a guideline for this average temperature that people have become known to prefer keeping the temperature of their rooms at in the Winter. This figure was arrived at long before the price of energy (read: fuel bill) escalated to unprecedented heights, influencing many people to lower their room thermostats drastically in some cases, to well below the previous 70 o average (or even 72 o) that most homeowners kept their houses at in the Winter.. For any homes having room temperature settings in the Winter of a noticeably different preferred heat level, the recognized recommended general rule is 2 Watts per gallon for raising the temperature of the water 5 degrees above the surrounding temperature. So, if your room is 63 o and you want to raise the tank water's temperature to 78 o (a 15 o difference), you would need 6 Watts per gallon -- and that's only going to raise it to 78 o, possibly slightly more but if so, not by much. For your 75 gallon tank, you would need 450 Watts of heating -- as two smaller heaters totaling near this. Such large heating capacities should only be employed when your room temperature (of 63 o) requires it. At other times, when your room temperature is 5 o warmer (68 o), for instance, your heating capacity would be 2 o per gallon in excess of your needs, or 150 Watts to much. As your room gets another 5 o warmer (to 73o), you would be WAY over capacity in heating -- dangerously so, if the thermostats ever stuck. At 68 o, if you wanted to raise your tank's temperature 10 o, to 78 o F, you would need 4 Watts per gallon -- or 300 Watts. A reminder, these figures are based on your tank being full. You can cut these figures in half if you intend to fill your tank only half-way. Then too, I just saw where you were talking about having the tank 3/4 full, which would have even different heating requirements. Ray [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 44103	From: erikaandnewton	Date: 10/29/2009
Subject: Re: heater noise??

thanks ray:-) I'll read that again tomorrow when its not so close to my bed time LOL! the 3/4 full tank was for my african clawed frogs (it was a 33 gallon), this tank is just half full. erika newark de usa --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, sevenspringss@... wrote: > > Erika, With a room temperature of 63 o, you obviously would need more > heating wattage -- but again, as two smaller heaters rather than one large one. > The 3 Watts per gallon I mentioned is a long-established figure going back > many (7) decades, for the "average" maintained temperature room -- which is > figured to be in the vicinity of 70 o as a Winter setting -- and is meant to > raise the water temperature 7.5 o above this room temperature, so in a room > of 70 o, this 3 Watts per gallon will ensure a tank temperature of 77.5 o. > It is only a guideline for this average temperature that people have become > known to prefer keeping the temperature of their rooms at in the Winter. > This figure was arrived at long before the price of energy (read: fuel bill) > escalated to unprecedented heights, influencing many people to lower their > room thermostats drastically in some cases, to well below the previous 70 o > average (or even 72 o) that most homeowners kept their houses at in the > Winter.. > > For any homes having room temperature settings in the Winter of a > noticeably different preferred heat level, the recognized recommended general rule is > 2 Watts per gallon for raising the temperature of the water 5 degrees above > the surrounding temperature. So, if your room is 63 o and you want to > raise the tank water's temperature to 78 o (a 15 o difference), you would need 6 > Watts per gallon -- and that's only going to raise it to 78 o, possibly > slightly more but if so, not by much. For your 75 gallon tank, you would need > 450 Watts of heating -- as two smaller heaters totaling near this. Such > large heating capacities should only be employed when your room temperature (of > 63 o) requires it. At other times, when your room temperature is 5 o > warmer (68 o), for instance, your heating capacity would be 2 o per gallon in > excess of your needs, or 150 Watts to much. As your room gets another 5 o > warmer (to 73o), you would be WAY over capacity in heating -- dangerously so, if > the thermostats ever stuck. > > At 68 o, if you wanted to raise your tank's temperature 10 o, to 78 o F, > you would need 4 Watts per gallon -- or 300 Watts. A reminder, these figures > are based on your tank being full. You can cut these figures in half if you > intend to fill your tank only half-way. Then too, I just saw where you > were talking about having the tank 3/4 full, which would have even different > heating requirements. Ray > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 44104	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 10/29/2009
Subject: Re: heater noise??

Just keep them frogs away from your computer. I don't need email from your frogs telling me their Uncles last name is Vasbinder and they have a billion dollars in inheritance that I can have but they need my personal and banking information so they can transfer the money to me as long as I give them some live crickets or something.... dang Nigerian Scammer Frogs. LOL As far as them or any critter/fish crawling out or jumping out of a tank, ALL tanks should have reasonably tight fitting covers if there is even a remote chance that something in the tank might crawl or jump out. I just presume that all tanks are properly covered. How tall is your 75G? Even if it's a deep tank, unless it's 30" deep or something like that, I would probably put a big rock or driftwood or something for the critters to use to reach the surface easier and still take advantage of the maximum amount of water. This also makes it easier on your filtration since a filter has a much harder time sucking water up over the top of the tank when the water level is only 1/2 full.... especially for HOB type filters. Canisters do at least have the added benefit of the returning hose assisting with a siphon effect. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of erikaandnewton Sent: Thursday, October 29, 2009 2:23 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: heater noise?? Actully lenny, they are neither;-) they are nigerian clawed frogs-silurana tropicalis. bigger than dwarf smaller than african clawed. now African clawed frogs have been known to climb out of the tank, as a matter of fact when i had my african clawed frogs thats how i got my first one. he had been a classroom pet and when they came back to school from weekend break they found him on the floor. they brought him to the vet i worked at to be euthanized. we decided to save him instead. He was about 16 when he finally moved on. so its usually recommended to keep the tank about 3/4 full. Or a tight fitting lid. Now I know a lot of people keep these types of frogs in full tanks, and for african claweds that doesn't bother me because they are so large. personally i don't like to see the dwarfs in full tanks. They don't come from deep waters and they kinda like to hang out on the bottom doing their thing and every once in a while blip to the top for a nip of air. I think one gets more natural behavior keeping them in shallower water. Now my particular frogs were 14 when i adopted them 3 years ago so i want air to be easier for them to reach;-) my ultimate goal for the tank is aschool of cory cats and... well thats all i know as a definite:-) have to wait for the frogs to move on though. for now, I'll have fun putting plants in there and keeping the guppies stocked erika newark de > Erika, > > I just thought about something from re-reading your post... why do you > only have the tank half full? Are these truly aquatic frogs like > African Dwarf Frogs or the LARGER African Clawed Frogs or is this set > up as a Paludarium where you have land area for other amphibious > critters? As far as I know, truly aquatic frogs like ADF's or ACF's, > do NOT climb out of the water. If yours are aquatic frogs, then you > should probably take full advantage of the 75G of water which would create a 50% less polluted environment for them.... > and it would also mean that your heater would not be so oversized as > Ray pointed out in his reply. >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 44105	From: Lisa	Date: 10/29/2009
Subject: Re: heater noise??

Erika. I have the heater in my tank 95% submerged. If I'm in the room at the time and there is no other background noise, I can hear my heater kick in as well. I've only had my tank set up since about early March this year. So my heater is brand new. I always just thought that the `click' when it turned on was normal. Just like when you flick a light switch. Can't remember the name of my heater, but it's case around the heating rods, is black and silver, with a purple line down the front with the temp range displayed through tiny individual windows. The part on the top of the heater where you twist the dial to adjust the temp is also purple. Does this sound like yours? Lisa --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@...> wrote: > > Just keep them frogs away from your computer. I don't need email from your > frogs telling me their Uncles last name is Vasbinder and they have a billion > dollars in inheritance that I can have but they need my personal and banking > information so they can transfer the money to me as long as I give them some > live crickets or something.... dang Nigerian Scammer Frogs. LOL > > As far as them or any critter/fish crawling out or jumping out of a tank, > ALL tanks should have reasonably tight fitting covers if there is even a > remote chance that something in the tank might crawl or jump out. I just > presume that all tanks are properly covered. > > How tall is your 75G? Even if it's a deep tank, unless it's 30" deep or > something like that, I would probably put a big rock or driftwood or > something for the critters to use to reach the surface easier and still take > advantage of the maximum amount of water. This also makes it easier on your > filtration since a filter has a much harder time sucking water up over the > top of the tank when the water level is only 1/2 full.... especially for HOB > type filters. Canisters do at least have the added benefit of the returning > hose assisting with a siphon effect. > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right > side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) > > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On > Behalf Of erikaandnewton > Sent: Thursday, October 29, 2009 2:23 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: heater noise?? > > Actully lenny, they are neither;-) they are nigerian clawed frogs-silurana > tropicalis. bigger than dwarf smaller than african clawed. now African > clawed frogs have been known to climb out of the tank, as a matter of fact > when i had my african clawed frogs thats how i got my first one. he had been > a classroom pet and when they came back to school from weekend break they > found him on the floor. they brought him to the vet i worked at to be > euthanized. we decided to save him instead. He was about 16 when he finally > moved on. so its usually recommended to keep the tank about 3/4 full. Or a > tight fitting lid. Now I know a lot of people keep these types of frogs in > full tanks, and for african claweds that doesn't bother me because they are > so large. personally i don't like to see the dwarfs in full tanks. They > don't come from deep waters and they kinda like to hang out on the bottom > doing their thing and every once in a while blip to the top for a nip of > air. I think one gets more natural behavior keeping them in shallower water. > Now my particular frogs were 14 when i adopted them 3 years ago so i want > air to be easier for them to reach;-) my ultimate goal for the tank is > aschool of cory cats and... well thats all i know as a definite:-) have to > wait for the frogs to move on though. for now, I'll have fun putting plants > in there and keeping the guppies stocked > > erika newark de > > > Erika, > > > > I just thought about something from re-reading your post... why do you > > only have the tank half full? Are these truly aquatic frogs like > > African Dwarf Frogs or the LARGER African Clawed Frogs or is this set > > up as a Paludarium where you have land area for other amphibious > > critters? As far as I know, truly aquatic frogs like ADF's or ACF's, > > do NOT climb out of the water. If yours are aquatic frogs, then you > > should probably take full advantage of the 75G of water which would create > a 50% less polluted environment for them.... > > and it would also mean that your heater would not be so oversized as > > Ray pointed out in his reply. > > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 44106	From: Sam Palermo	Date: 10/29/2009
Subject: Re: heater noise??

Hi Amber; Heaters making little noise is probably normal. The reason they make clicking sounds is because the are cheaply designed. A good heater- coming from a Electrical Engineers point of view would contain a sensor diode away from the heating element, then a solid state switch to increase reliable operation. In these heaters, they would last a long time and would be more accurate. I have heaters now that will vary from 79.9 to 81.9 degrees without touching them in a cooler basement environment. If a contact in a cheap heater gets stuck on that is where the danger is. The next best thing is to get a external temperature device and one with alarms that can notify a resident that the heater is stuck. I have often though of making a heater controller but I think someone already does- I got some chiller controllers from Foster and Smith. Best regards, Sam Palermo, Chief Engineer Skywave Broadcast Engineering, Chicago Amber Berglund wrote: > > > I have a couple heaters only mostly submerged (with the top nob > controller sticking out so I can adjust it), but the ones in my 125 > gallon are fully submerged and oddly enough those are the ones I've > heard clicking in the past. > Also, is it a bad thing to have an overpowered heater? Seems like it > just wouldn't turn on as often... but that's just my theory ;) LOL > > Amber > > Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > > > > > > Amber, > > > > Are your heaters fully submerged or do you have the tops of them > sticking > > out the water? > > > > Mine are fully submerged and usually hidden behind > plants/decorations. I'm > > wondering if, because they are submerged, this is why I do not hear > > clicking. I do seem to remember that when I had one that was > sticking out > > the water, I would hear clicking but that was a while back so I'm not > > positive. > > > > Of course, my room is never quiet since my TV is on if I'm in the room > > which > > is also my home office so my computer is also on but the speakers are > > turned > > down 99% of the time on my computers, unless I am watching something > > on the > > computer that needs volume. Also, the waterfall from the HOB makes more > > gurgling noise that would probably mask any heater clicking also. > > > > Erika, > > > > I just thought about something from re-reading your post... why do you > > only > > have the tank half full? Are these truly aquatic frogs like African > Dwarf > > Frogs or the LARGER African Clawed Frogs or is this set up as a > Paludarium > > where you have land area for other amphibious critters? As far as I > know, > > truly aquatic frogs like ADF's or ACF's, do NOT climb out of the > water. If > > yours are aquatic frogs, then you should probably take full advantage > > of the > > 75G of water which would create a 50% less polluted environment for > > them.... > > and it would also mean that your heater would not be so oversized as Ray > > pointed out in his reply. > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>> > > (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right > > side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, > Month) > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On > > Behalf Of Amber Berglund > > Sent: Thursday, October 29, 2009 10:04 AM > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] heater noise?? > > > > I have heard clicking from my heaters, but only when the room is very > > quiet > > when the heater kicks on (light comes on). Mine haven't died after > making > > noise, so you might be okay for now, just keep an eye on the heater and > > perhaps buy something cheap to have on hand in case it does have > issues at > > some point. > > > > Amber > > > > Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > > > > > > > > > What kind of noise? I guess an older heater might click on and off and > > > maybe you could hear it if nothing else was making noise. I do not > > > have that brand but I've never heard even clicking from any of my > > heaters. > > > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>> > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>>> > > (Links to any articles referenced in > > > above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels > > > and also under Archives by Year, Month) > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On Behalf Of erikaandnewton > > > Sent: Wednesday, October 28, 2009 9:47 PM > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > Subject: [AquaticLife] heater noise?? > > > > > > so finally set up my 75 gallon (half full)for my frogs. I set it up > > > today (and yes put them in it today, i know not the right way to do > > > it, but a > > > necessity) and at some point while i was standing near the tank i > > > heard the heater come on. I can't say ive ever noticed being able to > > > hear one of my heaters kick on, but maybe ive never been near one when > > > it does. its a 250 watt visatherm, probably a ten year old heater, or > > > more. If i need to replace it i know i can't afford another visatherm > > > at this point so suggestions for a cheaper, reliable heater would be > > > welcome. > > > > > > erika newark de usa > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 44107	From: sevenspringss@wmconnect.com	Date: 10/30/2009
Subject: Re: heater noise??

Lisa, As Sam points out, those heaters that make noise is as a result of their design. While I'm not writing this post to refute anything, I would like to add here that there is no similarity between the cause of these heaters making a clicking noise and the clicking noise of a light switch, although they do sound the same. A light switch's clicking noise is purely mechanical, and while I don't know if they're available in Australia, the States have had silent light switches available for some time now indicating even that devise's mechanics can be designed so as not to produce that familiar clicking sound. Ray [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 44108	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 10/30/2009
Subject: Re: heater noise??

http://blogs.computerworld.com/14981/spam_culture_part_3_nigeria_and_419_adv ance_fee_fraud?source=CTWNLE_nlt_security_2009-10-28 http://tinyurl.com/ygmlvav Spam culture, part 3: Nigeria (and 419 scams). \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Lenny V. aka GoldLenny Sent: Thursday, October 29, 2009 9:39 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: heater noise?? Just keep them frogs away from your computer. I don't need email from your frogs telling me their Uncles last name is Vasbinder and they have a billion dollars in inheritance that I can have but they need my personal and banking information so they can transfer the money to me as long as I give them some live crickets or something.... dang Nigerian Scammer Frogs. LOL As far as them or any critter/fish crawling out or jumping out of a tank, ALL tanks should have reasonably tight fitting covers if there is even a remote chance that something in the tank might crawl or jump out. I just presume that all tanks are properly covered. How tall is your 75G? Even if it's a deep tank, unless it's 30" deep or something like that, I would probably put a big rock or driftwood or something for the critters to use to reach the surface easier and still take advantage of the maximum amount of water. This also makes it easier on your filtration since a filter has a much harder time sucking water up over the top of the tank when the water level is only 1/2 full.... especially for HOB type filters. Canisters do at least have the added benefit of the returning hose assisting with a siphon effect. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of erikaandnewton Sent: Thursday, October 29, 2009 2:23 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: heater noise?? Actully lenny, they are neither;-) they are nigerian clawed frogs-silurana tropicalis. bigger than dwarf smaller than african clawed. now African clawed frogs have been known to climb out of the tank, as a matter of fact when i had my african clawed frogs thats how i got my first one. he had been a classroom pet and when they came back to school from weekend break they found him on the floor. they brought him to the vet i worked at to be euthanized. we decided to save him instead. He was about 16 when he finally moved on. so its usually recommended to keep the tank about 3/4 full. Or a tight fitting lid. Now I know a lot of people keep these types of frogs in full tanks, and for african claweds that doesn't bother me because they are so large. personally i don't like to see the dwarfs in full tanks. They don't come from deep waters and they kinda like to hang out on the bottom doing their thing and every once in a while blip to the top for a nip of air. I think one gets more natural behavior keeping them in shallower water. Now my particular frogs were 14 when i adopted them 3 years ago so i want air to be easier for them to reach;-) my ultimate goal for the tank is aschool of cory cats and... well thats all i know as a definite:-) have to wait for the frogs to move on though. for now, I'll have fun putting plants in there and keeping the guppies stocked erika newark de > Erika, > > I just thought about something from re-reading your post... why do you > only have the tank half full? Are these truly aquatic frogs like > African Dwarf Frogs or the LARGER African Clawed Frogs or is this set > up as a Paludarium where you have land area for other amphibious > critters? As far as I know, truly aquatic frogs like ADF's or ACF's, > do NOT climb out of the water. If yours are aquatic frogs, then you > should probably take full advantage of the 75G of water which would create a 50% less polluted environment for them.... > and it would also mean that your heater would not be so oversized as > Ray pointed out in his reply. > ------------------------------------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. 74/`7.88.><((((:>.74/`7.88.74/`7.8><((((:> 8.74/`7.8. , .74/`7..><((((:> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <:((((><.74/`7.88.74/`7.8<:((((><8.74/`7.8. , .74/`7..<:((((><74/`7.88. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the home page. Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com to receive the digest, which includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com for the No E-Mail option where you will still be able to read messages on the group and post replies. Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com to receive individual e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 44109	From: erikaandnewton	Date: 10/30/2009
Subject: Re: heater noise??

i'll think about it;-) i do want to do some pond plants too so MAYBE i'll up it to 3/4. I am looking @ getting some sort of wood or wood looking plastic thing. I have these two BEAUTIFUL pieces of driftwood, i tried to use one, attached it to two big pieces of slate, piled on the gravel and i'll be dammed if it didn't STILL float. I saw a plastic wood looking thing @ petsmart but it wasn't priced, so i headed up to the line to check the price but there was a long line so i put the thing back and left(on line found out its 39.99). went to my LFS because what i was really looking for was plant anchors, and they have a nice wood piece there i like, but i have to find out if i'll have the same issue with it as i did with the drift wood (didn't want to ask the kid working, i'll wait til the owner is there). My other thought is to buy a storage tote big enough and let the drift wood soak until it sinks. that would also help rinse it off. I actually do not have a filter going in the tank. the on the HOB move the water too much and the submersibles designed for frogs,turtles and such are a PITA. I've thought of getting an external canister filter, but really partial water changes every so often are much cheaper;-) erika newark de usa p.s. of course if I have the boys step up their e-mail scams I might be able to get them that canister filter... --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@...> wrote: > > Just keep them frogs away from your computer. I don't need email from your > frogs telling me their Uncles last name is Vasbinder and they have a billion > dollars in inheritance that I can have but they need my personal and banking > information so they can transfer the money to me as long as I give them some > live crickets or something.... dang Nigerian Scammer Frogs. LOL > > As far as them or any critter/fish crawling out or jumping out of a tank, > ALL tanks should have reasonably tight fitting covers if there is even a > remote chance that something in the tank might crawl or jump out. I just > presume that all tanks are properly covered. > > How tall is your 75G? Even if it's a deep tank, unless it's 30" deep or > something like that, I would probably put a big rock or driftwood or > something for the critters to use to reach the surface easier and still take > advantage of the maximum amount of water. This also makes it easier on your > filtration since a filter has a much harder time sucking water up over the > top of the tank when the water level is only 1/2 full.... especially for HOB > type filters. Canisters do at least have the added benefit of the returning > hose assisting with a siphon effect. > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right > side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) > > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 44110	From: erikaandnewton	Date: 10/30/2009
Subject: Re: heater noise??

this sound is kinda like an electrical current sort of sound. although it also clicked, the buzzing is what really concerned me. I'm just going to replace it. It came with the tank which was a few years old when we bought it more than 6 years ago. It was used in salt water most its life and it owes me nothing:-) I'll lay it to rest. Mine is a visatherm-all glass tube with an orange temperature indicator and a red knob. Although not sure what they look like now!LOL! erika newark de usa --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Lisa" <lisa_lawless2004@...> wrote: > > Erika. > I have the heater in my tank 95% submerged. If I'm in the room at the time and there is no other background noise, I can hear my heater kick in as well. I've only had my tank set up since about early March this year. > So my heater is brand new. I always just thought that the `click' when it turned on was normal. > Just like when you flick a light switch. > > Can't remember the name of my heater, but it's case around the heating rods, is black and silver, with a purple line down the front with the temp range displayed through tiny individual windows. > The part on the top of the heater where you twist the dial to adjust the temp is also purple. > > Does this sound like yours? > > Lisa > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 44111	From: kuradi8	Date: 10/30/2009
Subject: heater noise?? NOW Air Pump Noise

How cosmic that Erika would have a noise question because so do I. Hijacking this thread to a related tangent... This house is a noisy one during the day so I never noticed but last night I woke up ready to conquer the world at about 4am. While I was staring at the ceiling, heard a strange noise. I tracked it down to my 55g with the new Rena 400 air pump I got about a month ago. The bubbles from the two 4" disks are quite aggressive and make a *LOT* of blub-blub-blub bubbling noises. They're **LOUD!!!** I tried to turn down the bubbles later during the day but the little adjustment knobs do nothing. No wonder the pump was so cheap. It's defective -- they don't work. It's on full blast all the time. If I could hear the bubbling from clear across the house, do my fish suffer from noise pollution? Are those poor fishies living in a never-ending heavy metal performance? Am I accidentally torturing them with all that noise? Should I put the bubbles on the same timer as the lights? Sleepless in the Poconos, ~Kai > Erika wrote: > > i was standing near the tank i heard the heater come on. I can't say ive ever noticed being able to hear one of my heaters kick on, but maybe ive never been near one when it does. > > erika newark de usa >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 44112	From: Kathy	Date: 10/30/2009
Subject: New betta

Hi all, Just got back from Walmart with a new betta about an hour ago. He's red and blue (will post a pic as soon as I get a camera). I've been slowly getting him used to the bowl water, and just about five minutes ago I let him free in the bowl. Now he's exploring. Two questions: When do I give him his first meal? AND Is 73 degrees too cool for him? That's what my thermometer is reading. -Kathy

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 44113	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 10/30/2009
Subject: Re: New betta

73 degrees should be just fine for him, as long as your room temps do not flucuate more than 3 degrees through a 24 hour period. Did you ask when the store fed him last, or if they fed him when he arrived? Most likely they did not feed him yet if you just picked him up after the shipment arrived. If you are uncertain feed him a small meal (betta's do not eat very much at all, just feed him a couple of tiny pellets or a little bit of crushed flake food), if you're uncertain how much to feed just start out small and if he eats it in less than a few seconds you might be able to get away with feeding a little more. I feed my betta every other day and he doesn't seem to be unhealthy from it, some days I feed him on his normal "off day" too, so he doesn't have too many breaks in between meals. Amber Kathy wrote: > > > Hi all, > Just got back from Walmart with a new betta about an hour ago. He's > red and blue (will post a pic as soon as I get a camera). I've been > slowly getting him used to the bowl water, and just about five minutes > ago I let him free in the bowl. Now he's exploring. Two questions: > When do I give him his first meal? AND Is 73 degrees too cool for him? > That's what my thermometer is reading. > -Kathy > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 44114	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 10/30/2009
Subject: Re: heater noise?? NOW Air Pump Noise

Kai, What you need to do is to bleed some of the excess air off, which will reduce the bubbles from the airstones or whatever you are using to dispense the air in the aquarium(s). You do not mention how many air lines you have going into your tank. With two air outlets coming from the pump, you can go a couple of different ways, especially of you only have two air devices. 1. a. Using a T air tube connector, you can join the two lines into one. b. You will also need 2 three way valves and a two way valve. Insert one three way into the air line near where it goes into the tank for the closest air device (use a single edge razor or an X-acto knife to cut the air line). c. Plug the two air line ends into the opposite barb connectors of one three way valve. Run the next portion of the line to the second three way the same way as the first. You can the cut a short piece to connect the airline from the second three way to the lower barb on the two way. d. Connect your air lines from the upper barb on the three ways to your air devices. e. Place a short piece of pipe cleaner into the upper barb of the two way. Depending on the thickness of the pipe cleaner you get, you may need to bend the piece in half so it will stay in the barb f. Make sure the two way valve is closed. Partially open the three way valves. g. Start up the air pump. Partially open the two way valve and adjust the three way valves to get the flow of air that is pleasing to you and your ears. You may find that you need to open or close the two way valve to adjust the three ways the way you want. Now, you are bleeding off the excess air while still being able to run your air devices that way you like. It sounds more complicated than it really is. Use brass valves for the best results. They are more expensive, but worth it. If you add tanks to your collection, in the same area, just add three way valves before the two way, or take a look at a gang valve. \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of kuradi8 Sent: Friday, October 30, 2009 10:20 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] heater noise?? NOW Air Pump Noise How cosmic that Erika would have a noise question because so do I. Hijacking this thread to a related tangent... This house is a noisy one during the day so I never noticed but last night I woke up ready to conquer the world at about 4am. While I was staring at the ceiling, heard a strange noise. I tracked it down to my 55g with the new Rena 400 air pump I got about a month ago. The bubbles from the two 4" disks are quite aggressive and make a *LOT* of blub-blub-blub bubbling noises. They're **LOUD!!!** I tried to turn down the bubbles later during the day but the little adjustment knobs do nothing. No wonder the pump was so cheap. It's defective -- they don't work. It's on full blast all the time. If I could hear the bubbling from clear across the house, do my fish suffer from noise pollution? Are those poor fishies living in a never-ending heavy metal performance? Am I accidentally torturing them with all that noise? Should I put the bubbles on the same timer as the lights? Sleepless in the Poconos, ~Kai > Erika wrote: > > i was standing near the tank i heard the heater come on. I can't say ive ever noticed being able to hear one of my heaters kick on, but maybe ive never been near one when it does. > > erika newark de usa >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 44115	From: Kathy	Date: 10/30/2009
Subject: Re: New betta

Ok thanks Amber. My room's pretty stable, my suitemates keep the thermostat for our suite at 76ish. And I don't argue, cause they're all thin and have less.....insulation than I do. Some days I feel like I'm burning up from the heat in the room, but I figure if they're comfortable I'd better not argue. And the only reason it feels hot to me is that my parents kept the house at 68 all the winter's I've lived with them. I'll feed him in the morning. They got the fish shippment yesterday, but I had an evening class and it snowed all afternoon so yesterday would've been a really bad day to get him. So he may have gone without food for several days. Their stomachs are about the size of their eyes, right? So I make sure the amount of food is about the same size as his eye if you put it all together? That's a tiny pinch, but I can figure it out. -Kathy --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, Amber Berglund <arberglund@...> wrote: > > 73 degrees should be just fine for him, as long as your room temps do > not flucuate more than 3 degrees through a 24 hour period. > Did you ask when the store fed him last, or if they fed him when he > arrived? Most likely they did not feed him yet if you just picked him up > after the shipment arrived. > If you are uncertain feed him a small meal (betta's do not eat very much > at all, just feed him a couple of tiny pellets or a little bit of > crushed flake food), if you're uncertain how much to feed just start out > small and if he eats it in less than a few seconds you might be able to > get away with feeding a little more. I feed my betta every other day and > he doesn't seem to be unhealthy from it, some days I feed him on his > normal "off day" too, so he doesn't have too many breaks in between meals. > > Amber > > Kathy wrote: > > > > > > Hi all, > > Just got back from Walmart with a new betta about an hour ago. He's > > red and blue (will post a pic as soon as I get a camera). I've been > > slowly getting him used to the bowl water, and just about five minutes > > ago I let him free in the bowl. Now he's exploring. Two questions: > > When do I give him his first meal? AND Is 73 degrees too cool for him? > > That's what my thermometer is reading. > > -Kathy > > > > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 44116	From: Dora Smith	Date: 10/31/2009
Subject: Re: New betta

I've found mine does best on two to three Ocean Nutrition Atison's betta food two to three times a day - or equivalent in flake. He also gets formula one flakes - the red kind. He'll eat forumula two - the green ones - less happily if he's starving. And Spectrum small fish pellets. Those are all relatively high quality foods. And every once in awhile I give him a little HBH Betta Colorbright, but I don't think that's as high quality a food. He's supposed to get more frozen/ fresh food than he does. He LOVES mo'quito larbas, if there are still any around where you live. Google image them; you can scoop a fish net over standing water, and easily pick them off the surface; tehy're good sized and easy to recognize and catch. Yours, Dora Smith Austin, TX tiggernut24@... ----- Original Message ----- From: "Kathy" <kl_whitney@...> To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Saturday, October 31, 2009 12:40 AM Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: New betta Ok thanks Amber. My room's pretty stable, my suitemates keep the thermostat for our suite at 76ish. And I don't argue, cause they're all thin and have less.....insulation than I do. Some days I feel like I'm burning up from the heat in the room, but I figure if they're comfortable I'd better not argue. And the only reason it feels hot to me is that my parents kept the house at 68 all the winter's I've lived with them. I'll feed him in the morning. They got the fish shippment yesterday, but I had an evening class and it snowed all afternoon so yesterday would've been a really bad day to get him. So he may have gone without food for several days. Their stomachs are about the size of their eyes, right? So I make sure the amount of food is about the same size as his eye if you put it all together? That's a tiny pinch, but I can figure it out. -Kathy --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, Amber Berglund <arberglund@...> wrote: > > 73 degrees should be just fine for him, as long as your room temps do > not flucuate more than 3 degrees through a 24 hour period. > Did you ask when the store fed him last, or if they fed him when he > arrived? Most likely they did not feed him yet if you just picked him up > after the shipment arrived. > If you are uncertain feed him a small meal (betta's do not eat very much > at all, just feed him a couple of tiny pellets or a little bit of > crushed flake food), if you're uncertain how much to feed just start out > small and if he eats it in less than a few seconds you might be able to > get away with feeding a little more. I feed my betta every other day and > he doesn't seem to be unhealthy from it, some days I feed him on his > normal "off day" too, so he doesn't have too many breaks in between meals. > > Amber > > Kathy wrote: > > > > > > Hi all, > > Just got back from Walmart with a new betta about an hour ago. He's > > red and blue (will post a pic as soon as I get a camera). I've been > > slowly getting him used to the bowl water, and just about five minutes > > ago I let him free in the bowl. Now he's exploring. Two questions: > > When do I give him his first meal? AND Is 73 degrees too cool for him? > > That's what my thermometer is reading. > > -Kathy > > > > > ------------------------------------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the home page. Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com to receive the digest, which includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com for the No E-Mail option where you will still be able to read messages on the group and post replies. Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com to receive individual e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 44117	From: kuradi8	Date: 10/31/2009
Subject: Re: New betta

"Their stomachs are about the size of their eyes." What a perfect way to explain it! Especially to kids! (And seniors like my Mom.) Enjoy your Betta. I love mine. They have so much personality! Chow Mein and Sweet-and-Sour are here in my office. Of course in individual tanks! And Kala ("Fish") is downstairs with Mom. Kala is also red and blue and also from Walmart. Twins? :o) Basically, as long as you're comfortable, your Betta will be too. Keep him out of the sun and away from anything that can vary his water's temperature. Each of my tanks has a small potted aquatic plant. I used small plastic party cups with sand and a layer of gravel on top. To clean the tank, I use a length of air line hose rubber-banded to a long chopstick so I can vacuum the bottom without having to stick my hand in the water. ~Kai --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Kathy" <kl_whitney@...> wrote: > > Ok thanks Amber. My room's pretty stable, my suitemates keep the thermostat for our suite at 76ish. And I don't argue, cause they're all thin and have less.....insulation than I do. Some days I feel like I'm burning up from the heat in the room, but I figure if they're comfortable I'd better not argue. And the only reason it feels hot to me is that my parents kept the house at 68 all the winter's I've lived with them. > I'll feed him in the morning. They got the fish shippment yesterday, but I had an evening class and it snowed all afternoon so yesterday would've been a really bad day to get him. So he may have gone without food for several days. Their stomachs are about the size of their eyes, right? So I make sure the amount of food is about the same size as his eye if you put it all together? That's a tiny pinch, but I can figure it out. > -Kathy > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, Amber Berglund <arberglund@> wrote: > > > > 73 degrees should be just fine for him, as long as your room temps do > > not flucuate more than 3 degrees through a 24 hour period. > > Did you ask when the store fed him last, or if they fed him when he > > arrived? Most likely they did not feed him yet if you just picked him up > > after the shipment arrived. > > If you are uncertain feed him a small meal (betta's do not eat very much > > at all, just feed him a couple of tiny pellets or a little bit of > > crushed flake food), if you're uncertain how much to feed just start out > > small and if he eats it in less than a few seconds you might be able to > > get away with feeding a little more. I feed my betta every other day and > > he doesn't seem to be unhealthy from it, some days I feed him on his > > normal "off day" too, so he doesn't have too many breaks in between meals. > > > > Amber > > > > Kathy wrote: > > > > > > > > > Hi all, > > > Just got back from Walmart with a new betta about an hour ago. He's > > > red and blue (will post a pic as soon as I get a camera). I've been > > > slowly getting him used to the bowl water, and just about five minutes > > > ago I let him free in the bowl. Now he's exploring. Two questions: > > > When do I give him his first meal? AND Is 73 degrees too cool for him? > > > That's what my thermometer is reading. > > > -Kathy > > > > > > > > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 44118	From: kuradi8	Date: 10/31/2009
Subject: Re: heater noise?? NOW Air Pump Noise

EXCELLENT advice, \\Steve!// Thank you! I would never have thought of that. I had plans to go to the big pet store today anyway so I'll look for splitters. I know my local Walmart has the el-cheapo plastic kind. I hope the pet place will have variable ones. ~Kai --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Steve Szabo" <steve@...> wrote: > > Kai, > > What you need to do is to bleed some of the excess air off, which will > reduce the bubbles from the airstones or whatever you are using to dispense > the air in the aquarium(s). You do not mention how many air lines you have > going into your tank. With two air outlets coming from the pump, you can go > a couple of different ways, especially of you only have two air devices. > > 1. a. Using a T air tube connector, you can join the two lines into > one. > b. You will also need 2 three way valves and a two way valve. > Insert one three way into the air line near where it goes into the tank for > the closest air device (use a single edge razor or an X-acto knife to cut > the air line). > c. Plug the two air line ends into the opposite barb connectors of > one three way valve. Run the next portion of the line to the second three > way the same way as the first. You can the cut a short piece to connect the > airline from the second three way to the lower barb on the two way. > d. Connect your air lines from the upper barb on the three ways to > your air devices. > e. Place a short piece of pipe cleaner into the upper barb of the > two way. Depending on the thickness of the pipe cleaner you get, you may > need to bend the piece in half so it will stay in the barb > f. Make sure the two way valve is closed. Partially open the three > way valves. > g. Start up the air pump. Partially open the two way valve and > adjust the three way valves to get the flow of air that is pleasing to you > and your ears. You may find that you need to open or close the two way valve > to adjust the three ways the way you want. > > Now, you are bleeding off the excess air while still being able to run your > air devices that way you like. It sounds more complicated than it really is. > Use brass valves for the best results. They are more expensive, but worth > it. If you add tanks to your collection, in the same area, just add three > way valves before the two way, or take a look at a gang valve. > > \\Steve// > > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On > Behalf Of kuradi8 > Sent: Friday, October 30, 2009 10:20 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Subject: [AquaticLife] heater noise?? NOW Air Pump Noise > > How cosmic that Erika would have a noise question because so do I. > > Hijacking this thread to a related tangent... > > This house is a noisy one during the day so I never noticed but last night I > woke up ready to conquer the world at about 4am. While I was staring at the > ceiling, heard a strange noise. I tracked it down to my 55g with the new > Rena 400 air pump I got about a month ago. > > The bubbles from the two 4" disks are quite aggressive and make a *LOT* of > blub-blub-blub bubbling noises. They're **LOUD!!!** > > I tried to turn down the bubbles later during the day but the little > adjustment knobs do nothing. No wonder the pump was so cheap. It's > defective -- they don't work. It's on full blast all the time. > > If I could hear the bubbling from clear across the house, do my fish suffer > from noise pollution? Are those poor fishies living in a never-ending heavy > metal performance? Am I accidentally torturing them with all that noise? > > Should I put the bubbles on the same timer as the lights? > > Sleepless in the Poconos, > ~Kai > > > > > > Erika wrote: > > > > i was standing near the tank i heard the heater come on. I can't say ive > ever noticed being able to hear one of my heaters kick on, but maybe ive > never been near one when it does. > > > > erika newark de usa > > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 44119	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 10/31/2009
Subject: Re: heater noise?? NOW Air Pump Noise

If you want to use the T to connect both airlines, and cannot find one (this could be plastic since there are no moving parts), you can use a three way valve as a T and leave the valve open full, though the part itself would be a bit more costly. \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of kuradi8 Sent: Saturday, October 31, 2009 9:20 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: heater noise?? NOW Air Pump Noise EXCELLENT advice, \\Steve!// Thank you! I would never have thought of that. I had plans to go to the big pet store today anyway so I'll look for splitters. I know my local Walmart has the el-cheapo plastic kind. I hope the pet place will have variable ones. ~Kai --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Steve Szabo" <steve@...> wrote: > > Kai, > > What you need to do is to bleed some of the excess air off, which will > reduce the bubbles from the airstones or whatever you are using to dispense > the air in the aquarium(s). You do not mention how many air lines you have > going into your tank. With two air outlets coming from the pump, you can go > a couple of different ways, especially of you only have two air devices. > > 1. a. Using a T air tube connector, you can join the two lines into > one. > b. You will also need 2 three way valves and a two way valve. > Insert one three way into the air line near where it goes into the tank for > the closest air device (use a single edge razor or an X-acto knife to cut > the air line). > c. Plug the two air line ends into the opposite barb connectors of > one three way valve. Run the next portion of the line to the second three > way the same way as the first. You can the cut a short piece to connect the > airline from the second three way to the lower barb on the two way. > d. Connect your air lines from the upper barb on the three ways to > your air devices. > e. Place a short piece of pipe cleaner into the upper barb of the > two way. Depending on the thickness of the pipe cleaner you get, you may > need to bend the piece in half so it will stay in the barb > f. Make sure the two way valve is closed. Partially open the three > way valves. > g. Start up the air pump. Partially open the two way valve and > adjust the three way valves to get the flow of air that is pleasing to you > and your ears. You may find that you need to open or close the two way valve > to adjust the three ways the way you want. > > Now, you are bleeding off the excess air while still being able to run your > air devices that way you like. It sounds more complicated than it really is. > Use brass valves for the best results. They are more expensive, but worth > it. If you add tanks to your collection, in the same area, just add three > way valves before the two way, or take a look at a gang valve. > > \\Steve// > > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On > Behalf Of kuradi8 > Sent: Friday, October 30, 2009 10:20 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Subject: [AquaticLife] heater noise?? NOW Air Pump Noise > > How cosmic that Erika would have a noise question because so do I. > > Hijacking this thread to a related tangent... > > This house is a noisy one during the day so I never noticed but last night I > woke up ready to conquer the world at about 4am. While I was staring at the > ceiling, heard a strange noise. I tracked it down to my 55g with the new > Rena 400 air pump I got about a month ago. > > The bubbles from the two 4" disks are quite aggressive and make a *LOT* of > blub-blub-blub bubbling noises. They're **LOUD!!!** > > I tried to turn down the bubbles later during the day but the little > adjustment knobs do nothing. No wonder the pump was so cheap. It's > defective -- they don't work. It's on full blast all the time. > > If I could hear the bubbling from clear across the house, do my fish suffer > from noise pollution? Are those poor fishies living in a never-ending heavy > metal performance? Am I accidentally torturing them with all that noise? > > Should I put the bubbles on the same timer as the lights? > > Sleepless in the Poconos, > ~Kai > > > > > > Erika wrote: > > > > i was standing near the tank i heard the heater come on. I can't say ive > ever noticed being able to hear one of my heaters kick on, but maybe ive > never been near one when it does. > > > > erika newark de usa > > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 44120	From: Kathy	Date: 10/31/2009
Subject: Re: New betta

Thanks, Kai. There's a bit of a problem. He apparently doesn't like Tetra BettaMin flakes. He won't eat them. I'm pretty sure he's hungry cause he's showing hunting behaviors, he's gotten really active and seems like he's looking for something (I've seen the exact same behavior in my snake when he's hungry, isnt' it weird how two animals so different can act so similar!), but he still won't eat the BettaMin. And I won't be able to get back to WalMart until Monday (that's when my friend is taking me to get some general shopping done), unless I can sweet talk the people who are giving me a ride to church tomorrow into taking me there to pick up some better betta food. And I don't want to seem greedy about rides, I probabaly wouldn't ask cause I'd feel like I was taking advantage of them. But anyway, what do I feed him instead of BettaMin? I was shocked to see so many bicolor bettas--I had thought they were solid! At least they were when I was a kid. I grew up on class pets of either solid red or solid blue bettas, because we couldn't have anything in the classroom with fur or feathers. But this guy is a mix of red and blue. There was a pink and iridescent white one (he looked like an opal) that I liked a lot but he didn't look as healthy as my little guy. Anyway, advice on what to feed him would be appreciated! I can tell he's hungry, but he seems to be a picky eater! -Kathy --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "kuradi8" <kuradi8@...> wrote: > > "Their stomachs are about the size of their eyes." What a perfect way to explain it! Especially to kids! (And seniors like my Mom.) > > Enjoy your Betta. I love mine. They have so much personality! Chow Mein and Sweet-and-Sour are here in my office. Of course in individual tanks! And Kala ("Fish") is downstairs with Mom. Kala is also red and blue and also from Walmart. Twins? :o) > > Basically, as long as you're comfortable, your Betta will be too. Keep him out of the sun and away from anything that can vary his water's temperature. > > Each of my tanks has a small potted aquatic plant. I used small plastic party cups with sand and a layer of gravel on top. To clean the tank, I use a length of air line hose rubber-banded to a long chopstick so I can vacuum the bottom without having to stick my hand in the water. > ~Kai > > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Kathy" <kl_whitney@> wrote: > > > > Ok thanks Amber. My room's pretty stable, my suitemates keep the thermostat for our suite at 76ish. And I don't argue, cause they're all thin and have less.....insulation than I do. Some days I feel like I'm burning up from the heat in the room, but I figure if they're comfortable I'd better not argue. And the only reason it feels hot to me is that my parents kept the house at 68 all the winter's I've lived with them. > > I'll feed him in the morning. They got the fish shippment yesterday, but I had an evening class and it snowed all afternoon so yesterday would've been a really bad day to get him. So he may have gone without food for several days. Their stomachs are about the size of their eyes, right? So I make sure the amount of food is about the same size as his eye if you put it all together? That's a tiny pinch, but I can figure it out. > > -Kathy > > > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, Amber Berglund <arberglund@> wrote: > > > > > > 73 degrees should be just fine for him, as long as your room temps do > > > not flucuate more than 3 degrees through a 24 hour period. > > > Did you ask when the store fed him last, or if they fed him when he > > > arrived? Most likely they did not feed him yet if you just picked him up > > > after the shipment arrived. > > > If you are uncertain feed him a small meal (betta's do not eat very much > > > at all, just feed him a couple of tiny pellets or a little bit of > > > crushed flake food), if you're uncertain how much to feed just start out > > > small and if he eats it in less than a few seconds you might be able to > > > get away with feeding a little more. I feed my betta every other day and > > > he doesn't seem to be unhealthy from it, some days I feed him on his > > > normal "off day" too, so he doesn't have too many breaks in between meals. > > > > > > Amber > > > > > > Kathy wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > Hi all, > > > > Just got back from Walmart with a new betta about an hour ago. He's > > > > red and blue (will post a pic as soon as I get a camera). I've been > > > > slowly getting him used to the bowl water, and just about five minutes > > > > ago I let him free in the bowl. Now he's exploring. Two questions: > > > > When do I give him his first meal? AND Is 73 degrees too cool for him? > > > > That's what my thermometer is reading. > > > > -Kathy > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 44121	From: Kathy	Date: 10/31/2009
Subject: Re: New betta

Thanks Dora. I don't think Walmart carries either brand. And there's already been two snowstorms, so I can't give him mosquito larvae. Is there some sort of freeze dried insect I can feed him? -Kathy --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Dora Smith" <tiggernut24@...> wrote: > > I've found mine does best on two to three Ocean Nutrition Atison's betta > food two to three times a day - or equivalent in flake. He also gets > formula one flakes - the red kind. He'll eat forumula two - the green > ones - less happily if he's starving. And Spectrum small fish pellets. > Those are all relatively high quality foods. And every once in awhile I > give him a little HBH Betta Colorbright, but I don't think that's as high > quality a food. > > He's supposed to get more frozen/ fresh food than he does. He LOVES > mo'quito larbas, if there are still any around where you live. Google image > them; you can scoop a fish net over standing water, and easily pick them off > the surface; tehy're good sized and easy to recognize and catch. > > Yours, > Dora Smith > Austin, TX > tiggernut24@... > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Kathy" <kl_whitney@...> > To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com> > Sent: Saturday, October 31, 2009 12:40 AM > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: New betta > > > Ok thanks Amber. My room's pretty stable, my suitemates keep the thermostat > for our suite at 76ish. And I don't argue, cause they're all thin and have > less.....insulation than I do. Some days I feel like I'm burning up from > the heat in the room, but I figure if they're comfortable I'd better not > argue. And the only reason it feels hot to me is that my parents kept the > house at 68 all the winter's I've lived with them. > I'll feed him in the morning. They got the fish shippment yesterday, but I > had an evening class and it snowed all afternoon so yesterday would've been > a really bad day to get him. So he may have gone without food for several > days. Their stomachs are about the size of their eyes, right? So I make > sure the amount of food is about the same size as his eye if you put it all > together? That's a tiny pinch, but I can figure it out. > -Kathy > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, Amber Berglund <arberglund@> wrote: > > > > 73 degrees should be just fine for him, as long as your room temps do > > not flucuate more than 3 degrees through a 24 hour period. > > Did you ask when the store fed him last, or if they fed him when he > > arrived? Most likely they did not feed him yet if you just picked him up > > after the shipment arrived. > > If you are uncertain feed him a small meal (betta's do not eat very much > > at all, just feed him a couple of tiny pellets or a little bit of > > crushed flake food), if you're uncertain how much to feed just start out > > small and if he eats it in less than a few seconds you might be able to > > get away with feeding a little more. I feed my betta every other day and > > he doesn't seem to be unhealthy from it, some days I feed him on his > > normal "off day" too, so he doesn't have too many breaks in between meals. > > > > Amber > > > > Kathy wrote: > > > > > > > > > Hi all, > > > Just got back from Walmart with a new betta about an hour ago. He's > > > red and blue (will post a pic as soon as I get a camera). I've been > > > slowly getting him used to the bowl water, and just about five minutes > > > ago I let him free in the bowl. Now he's exploring. Two questions: > > > When do I give him his first meal? AND Is 73 degrees too cool for him? > > > That's what my thermometer is reading. > > > -Kathy > > > > > > > > > > > > > ------------------------------------ > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. > ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> > PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to > the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT > LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- > <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. > > If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of unsubscribing, you > can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the > home page. > > Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com to receive the digest, which > includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email > > Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com for the No E-Mail option where > you will still be able to read messages on the group and post replies. > > Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com to receive individual > e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 44122	From: Donna Ransome	Date: 10/31/2009
Subject: Re: heater noise?? NOW Air Pump Noise

I'd just remove the bubblers. _____ From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Steve Szabo Sent: Saturday, October 31, 2009 11:32 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: heater noise?? NOW Air Pump Noise If you want to use the T to connect both airlines, and cannot find one (this could be plastic since there are no moving parts), you can use a three way valve as a T and leave the valve open full, though the part itself would be a bit more costly. \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of kuradi8 Sent: Saturday, October 31, 2009 9:20 AM To: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: heater noise?? NOW Air Pump Noise EXCELLENT advice, \\Steve!// Thank you! I would never have thought of that. I had plans to go to the big pet store today anyway so I'll look for splitters. I know my local Walmart has the el-cheapo plastic kind. I hope the pet place will have variable ones. ~Kai --- In AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com, "Steve Szabo" <steve@...> wrote: > > Kai, > > What you need to do is to bleed some of the excess air off, which will > reduce the bubbles from the airstones or whatever you are using to dispense > the air in the aquarium(s). You do not mention how many air lines you have > going into your tank. With two air outlets coming from the pump, you can go > a couple of different ways, especially of you only have two air devices. > > 1. a. Using a T air tube connector, you can join the two lines into > one. > b. You will also need 2 three way valves and a two way valve. > Insert one three way into the air line near where it goes into the tank for > the closest air device (use a single edge razor or an X-acto knife to cut > the air line). > c. Plug the two air line ends into the opposite barb connectors of > one three way valve. Run the next portion of the line to the second three > way the same way as the first. You can the cut a short piece to connect the > airline from the second three way to the lower barb on the two way. > d. Connect your air lines from the upper barb on the three ways to > your air devices. > e. Place a short piece of pipe cleaner into the upper barb of the > two way. Depending on the thickness of the pipe cleaner you get, you may > need to bend the piece in half so it will stay in the barb > f. Make sure the two way valve is closed. Partially open the three > way valves. > g. Start up the air pump. Partially open the two way valve and > adjust the three way valves to get the flow of air that is pleasing to you > and your ears. You may find that you need to open or close the two way valve > to adjust the three ways the way you want. > > Now, you are bleeding off the excess air while still being able to run your > air devices that way you like. It sounds more complicated than it really is. > Use brass valves for the best results. They are more expensive, but worth > it. If you add tanks to your collection, in the same area, just add three > way valves before the two way, or take a look at a gang valve. > > \\Steve// > > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com] On > Behalf Of kuradi8 > Sent: Friday, October 30, 2009 10:20 PM > To: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com > Subject: [AquaticLife] heater noise?? NOW Air Pump Noise > > How cosmic that Erika would have a noise question because so do I. > > Hijacking this thread to a related tangent... > > This house is a noisy one during the day so I never noticed but last night I > woke up ready to conquer the world at about 4am. While I was staring at the > ceiling, heard a strange noise. I tracked it down to my 55g with the new > Rena 400 air pump I got about a month ago. > > The bubbles from the two 4" disks are quite aggressive and make a *LOT* of > blub-blub-blub bubbling noises. They're **LOUD!!!** > > I tried to turn down the bubbles later during the day but the little > adjustment knobs do nothing. No wonder the pump was so cheap. It's > defective -- they don't work. It's on full blast all the time. > > If I could hear the bubbling from clear across the house, do my fish suffer > from noise pollution? Are those poor fishies living in a never-ending heavy > metal performance? Am I accidentally torturing them with all that noise? > > Should I put the bubbles on the same timer as the lights? > > Sleepless in the Poconos, > ~Kai > > > > > > Erika wrote: > > > > i was standing near the tank i heard the heater come on. I can't say ive > ever noticed being able to hear one of my heaters kick on, but maybe ive > never been near one when it does. > > > > erika newark de usa > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 44123	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 10/31/2009
Subject: Re: New betta

First, you are entering the wild, crazy, wonderful world of bettas. Take a look here for just some of the color types you can see in bettas (meaning _Betta splendens_, we'll forgo the 60 or so "wild" types of bettas). Take a look at some of the more common color types here, http://www.bettatalk.com/betta_colors.htm. I do note a gross exception on this page, and that is the pastels. Oh, well, I guess you can't get everything all at once. Then, of course, you have tail types to consider, which are listed here: http://www.associatedcontent.com/article/433417/overview_of_betta_fish_tail_ types_and.html?cat=53 http://tinyurl.com/yku2rrp This will give you some reading for the weekend, and, of course, there is your friend, Google, to lead you to even more information on bettas. \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Kathy Sent: Saturday, October 31, 2009 12:01 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: New betta Thanks, Kai. There's a bit of a problem. He apparently doesn't like Tetra BettaMin flakes. He won't eat them. I'm pretty sure he's hungry cause he's showing hunting behaviors, he's gotten really active and seems like he's looking for something (I've seen the exact same behavior in my snake when he's hungry, isnt' it weird how two animals so different can act so similar!), but he still won't eat the BettaMin. And I won't be able to get back to WalMart until Monday (that's when my friend is taking me to get some general shopping done), unless I can sweet talk the people who are giving me a ride to church tomorrow into taking me there to pick up some better betta food. And I don't want to seem greedy about rides, I probabaly wouldn't ask cause I'd feel like I was taking advantage of them. But anyway, what do I feed him instead of BettaMin? I was shocked to see so many bicolor bettas--I had thought they were solid! At least they were when I was a kid. I grew up on class pets of either solid red or solid blue bettas, because we couldn't have anything in the classroom with fur or feathers. But this guy is a mix of red and blue. There was a pink and iridescent white one (he looked like an opal) that I liked a lot but he didn't look as healthy as my little guy. Anyway, advice on what to feed him would be appreciated! I can tell he's hungry, but he seems to be a picky eater! -Kathy --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "kuradi8" <kuradi8@...> wrote: > > "Their stomachs are about the size of their eyes." What a perfect way to explain it! Especially to kids! (And seniors like my Mom.) > > Enjoy your Betta. I love mine. They have so much personality! Chow Mein and Sweet-and-Sour are here in my office. Of course in individual tanks! And Kala ("Fish") is downstairs with Mom. Kala is also red and blue and also from Walmart. Twins? :o) > > Basically, as long as you're comfortable, your Betta will be too. Keep him out of the sun and away from anything that can vary his water's temperature. > > Each of my tanks has a small potted aquatic plant. I used small plastic party cups with sand and a layer of gravel on top. To clean the tank, I use a length of air line hose rubber-banded to a long chopstick so I can vacuum the bottom without having to stick my hand in the water. > ~Kai > > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Kathy" <kl_whitney@> wrote: > > > > Ok thanks Amber. My room's pretty stable, my suitemates keep the thermostat for our suite at 76ish. And I don't argue, cause they're all thin and have less.....insulation than I do. Some days I feel like I'm burning up from the heat in the room, but I figure if they're comfortable I'd better not argue. And the only reason it feels hot to me is that my parents kept the house at 68 all the winter's I've lived with them. > > I'll feed him in the morning. They got the fish shippment yesterday, but I had an evening class and it snowed all afternoon so yesterday would've been a really bad day to get him. So he may have gone without food for several days. Their stomachs are about the size of their eyes, right? So I make sure the amount of food is about the same size as his eye if you put it all together? That's a tiny pinch, but I can figure it out. > > -Kathy > > > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, Amber Berglund <arberglund@> wrote: > > > > > > 73 degrees should be just fine for him, as long as your room temps do > > > not flucuate more than 3 degrees through a 24 hour period. > > > Did you ask when the store fed him last, or if they fed him when he > > > arrived? Most likely they did not feed him yet if you just picked him up > > > after the shipment arrived. > > > If you are uncertain feed him a small meal (betta's do not eat very much > > > at all, just feed him a couple of tiny pellets or a little bit of > > > crushed flake food), if you're uncertain how much to feed just start out > > > small and if he eats it in less than a few seconds you might be able to > > > get away with feeding a little more. I feed my betta every other day and > > > he doesn't seem to be unhealthy from it, some days I feed him on his > > > normal "off day" too, so he doesn't have too many breaks in between meals. > > > > > > Amber > > > > > > Kathy wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > Hi all, > > > > Just got back from Walmart with a new betta about an hour ago. He's > > > > red and blue (will post a pic as soon as I get a camera). I've been > > > > slowly getting him used to the bowl water, and just about five minutes > > > > ago I let him free in the bowl. Now he's exploring. Two questions: > > > > When do I give him his first meal? AND Is 73 degrees too cool for him? > > > > That's what my thermometer is reading. > > > > -Kathy > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 44124	From: Kathy	Date: 10/31/2009
Subject: Re: New betta

Thanks for the links, Steve! I'll check them out. Gosh, I need to think of a name for him. Don't know what to call him. It'll come to me though. LOL now he's showing off and acting all macho for his own reflection. They sure are fun to watch! So if he doesn't take the BettaMin (I'v decided to give him a few days on that and see if he takes it when he is more comfortable with me), what should I buy to feed him? And does time of day make any difference in how eager he is to eat? -Kathy --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Steve Szabo" <steve@...> wrote: > > First, you are entering the wild, crazy, wonderful world of bettas. Take a > look here for just some of the color types you can see in bettas (meaning > _Betta splendens_, we'll forgo the 60 or so "wild" types of bettas). Take a > look at some of the more common color types here, > http://www.bettatalk.com/betta_colors.htm. I do note a gross exception on > this page, and that is the pastels. Oh, well, I guess you can't get > everything all at once. > > Then, of course, you have tail types to consider, which are listed here: > http://www.associatedcontent.com/article/433417/overview_of_betta_fish_tail_ > types_and.html?cat=53 > http://tinyurl.com/yku2rrp > > This will give you some reading for the weekend, and, of course, there is > your friend, Google, to lead you to even more information on bettas. > > \\Steve// > > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On > Behalf Of Kathy > Sent: Saturday, October 31, 2009 12:01 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: New betta > > Thanks, Kai. > There's a bit of a problem. He apparently doesn't like Tetra BettaMin > flakes. He won't eat them. I'm pretty sure he's hungry cause he's showing > hunting behaviors, he's gotten really active and seems like he's looking for > something (I've seen the exact same behavior in my snake when he's hungry, > isnt' it weird how two animals so different can act so similar!), but he > still won't eat the BettaMin. And I won't be able to get back to WalMart > until Monday (that's when my friend is taking me to get some general > shopping done), unless I can sweet talk the people who are giving me a ride > to church tomorrow into taking me there to pick up some better betta food. > And I don't want to seem greedy about rides, I probabaly wouldn't ask cause > I'd feel like I was taking advantage of them. But anyway, what do I feed > him instead of BettaMin? > I was shocked to see so many bicolor bettas--I had thought they were solid! > At least they were when I was a kid. I grew up on class pets of either > solid red or solid blue bettas, because we couldn't have anything in the > classroom with fur or feathers. But this guy is a mix of red and blue. > There was a pink and iridescent white one (he looked like an opal) that I > liked a lot but he didn't look as healthy as my little guy. > Anyway, advice on what to feed him would be appreciated! I can tell he's > hungry, but he seems to be a picky eater! > -Kathy > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "kuradi8" <kuradi8@> wrote: > > > > "Their stomachs are about the size of their eyes." What a perfect way to > explain it! Especially to kids! (And seniors like my Mom.) > > > > Enjoy your Betta. I love mine. They have so much personality! Chow Mein > and Sweet-and-Sour are here in my office. Of course in individual tanks! > And Kala ("Fish") is downstairs with Mom. Kala is also red and blue and > also from Walmart. Twins? :o) > > > > > Basically, as long as you're comfortable, your Betta will be too. Keep > him out of the sun and away from anything that can vary his water's > temperature. > > > > Each of my tanks has a small potted aquatic plant. I used small plastic > party cups with sand and a layer of gravel on top. To clean the tank, I use > a length of air line hose rubber-banded to a long chopstick so I can vacuum > the bottom without having to stick my hand in the water. > > ~Kai > > > > > > > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Kathy" <kl_whitney@> wrote: > > > > > > Ok thanks Amber. My room's pretty stable, my suitemates keep the > thermostat for our suite at 76ish. And I don't argue, cause they're all > thin and have less.....insulation than I do. Some days I feel like I'm > burning up from the heat in the room, but I figure if they're comfortable > I'd better not argue. And the only reason it feels hot to me is that my > parents kept the house at 68 all the winter's I've lived with them. > > > I'll feed him in the morning. They got the fish shippment yesterday, > but I had an evening class and it snowed all afternoon so yesterday would've > been a really bad day to get him. So he may have gone without food for > several days. Their stomachs are about the size of their eyes, right? So I > make sure the amount of food is about the same size as his eye if you put it > all together? That's a tiny pinch, but I can figure it out. > > > -Kathy > > > > > > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, Amber Berglund <arberglund@> wrote: > > > > > > > > 73 degrees should be just fine for him, as long as your room temps do > > > > not flucuate more than 3 degrees through a 24 hour period. > > > > Did you ask when the store fed him last, or if they fed him when he > > > > arrived? Most likely they did not feed him yet if you just picked him > up > > > > after the shipment arrived. > > > > If you are uncertain feed him a small meal (betta's do not eat very > much > > > > at all, just feed him a couple of tiny pellets or a little bit of > > > > crushed flake food), if you're uncertain how much to feed just start > out > > > > small and if he eats it in less than a few seconds you might be able > to > > > > get away with feeding a little more. I feed my betta every other day > and > > > > he doesn't seem to be unhealthy from it, some days I feed him on his > > > > normal "off day" too, so he doesn't have too many breaks in between > meals. > > > > > > > > Amber > > > > > > > > Kathy wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Hi all, > > > > > Just got back from Walmart with a new betta about an hour ago. He's > > > > > red and blue (will post a pic as soon as I get a camera). I've been > > > > > slowly getting him used to the bowl water, and just about five > minutes > > > > > ago I let him free in the bowl. Now he's exploring. Two questions: > > > > > When do I give him his first meal? AND Is 73 degrees too cool for > him? > > > > > That's what my thermometer is reading. > > > > > -Kathy > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 44125	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 10/31/2009
Subject: Re: New betta

Does he notice the food when you drop it in and just ignore it? Mine will chase food that I drop in, but he ignores anything that floats on the surface mostly. He seems to prefer foods that sink. I feed mine omega one sinking shrimp pellets, I also feed frozen foods (brine shrimp, mysis shrimp, and their favorite bloodworms), not sure if your walmart will have frozen foods, but they are the best to get for your fishy. If they do not and you need to get freeze dried food instead make sure you rehydrate it in a little cup of water for a good 30 seconds or more to soak up some water before you give it to your betta, they can become easily constipated so it's best to feed them well hydrated foods just to be safe. I also make my own jello fish food as well, and he gets little chunks of it every now and then (it has mostly frozen fish/shrimp, frozen veggies, and some left over flake foods), I did no have liquid vitamins and such on hand to add to the mix this last time, they don't sell them in town so I have to order it. But I figure my homemade food can't be any worse than some of the flake foods out there ;) Amber Kathy wrote: > > > Thanks for the links, Steve! I'll check them out. Gosh, I need to > think of a name for him. Don't know what to call him. It'll come to me > though. > LOL now he's showing off and acting all macho for his own reflection. > They sure are fun to watch! > So if he doesn't take the BettaMin (I'v decided to give him a few days > on that and see if he takes it when he is more comfortable with me), > what should I buy to feed him? And does time of day make any > difference in how eager he is to eat? > -Kathy > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>, "Steve Szabo" <steve@...> wrote: > > > > First, you are entering the wild, crazy, wonderful world of bettas. > Take a > > look here for just some of the color types you can see in bettas > (meaning > > _Betta splendens_, we'll forgo the 60 or so "wild" types of bettas). > Take a > > look at some of the more common color types here, > > http://www.bettatalk.com/betta_colors.htm. > <http://www.bettatalk.com/betta_colors.htm.> I do note a gross > exception on > > this page, and that is the pastels. Oh, well, I guess you can't get > > everything all at once. > > > > Then, of course, you have tail types to consider, which are listed here: > > > http://www.associatedcontent.com/article/433417/overview_of_betta_fish_tail_ > <http://www.associatedcontent.com/article/433417/overview_of_betta_fish_tail_> > > types_and.html?cat=53 > > http://tinyurl.com/yku2rrp <http://tinyurl.com/yku2rrp> > > > > This will give you some reading for the weekend, and, of course, > there is > > your friend, Google, to lead you to even more information on bettas. > > > > \\Steve// > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On > > Behalf Of Kathy > > Sent: Saturday, October 31, 2009 12:01 PM > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: New betta > > > > Thanks, Kai. > > There's a bit of a problem. He apparently doesn't like Tetra BettaMin > > flakes. He won't eat them. I'm pretty sure he's hungry cause he's > showing > > hunting behaviors, he's gotten really active and seems like he's > looking for > > something (I've seen the exact same behavior in my snake when he's > hungry, > > isnt' it weird how two animals so different can act so similar!), but he > > still won't eat the BettaMin. And I won't be able to get back to WalMart > > until Monday (that's when my friend is taking me to get some general > > shopping done), unless I can sweet talk the people who are giving me > a ride > > to church tomorrow into taking me there to pick up some better betta > food. > > And I don't want to seem greedy about rides, I probabaly wouldn't > ask cause > > I'd feel like I was taking advantage of them. But anyway, what do I feed > > him instead of BettaMin? > > I was shocked to see so many bicolor bettas--I had thought they were > solid! > > At least they were when I was a kid. I grew up on class pets of either > > solid red or solid blue bettas, because we couldn't have anything in the > > classroom with fur or feathers. But this guy is a mix of red and blue. > > There was a pink and iridescent white one (he looked like an opal) > that I > > liked a lot but he didn't look as healthy as my little guy. > > Anyway, advice on what to feed him would be appreciated! I can tell he's > > hungry, but he seems to be a picky eater! > > -Kathy > > > > > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>, "kuradi8" <kuradi8@> wrote: > > > > > > "Their stomachs are about the size of their eyes." What a perfect > way to > > explain it! Especially to kids! (And seniors like my Mom.) > > > > > > Enjoy your Betta. I love mine. They have so much personality! Chow > Mein > > and Sweet-and-Sour are here in my office. Of course in individual tanks! > > And Kala ("Fish") is downstairs with Mom. Kala is also red and blue and > > also from Walmart. Twins? :o) > > > > > > > > Basically, as long as you're comfortable, your Betta will be too. Keep > > him out of the sun and away from anything that can vary his water's > > temperature. > > > > > > Each of my tanks has a small potted aquatic plant. I used small > plastic > > party cups with sand and a layer of gravel on top. To clean the > tank, I use > > a length of air line hose rubber-banded to a long chopstick so I can > vacuum > > the bottom without having to stick my hand in the water. > > > ~Kai > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>, "Kathy" <kl_whitney@> wrote: > > > > > > > > Ok thanks Amber. My room's pretty stable, my suitemates keep the > > thermostat for our suite at 76ish. And I don't argue, cause they're all > > thin and have less.....insulation than I do. Some days I feel like I'm > > burning up from the heat in the room, but I figure if they're > comfortable > > I'd better not argue. And the only reason it feels hot to me is that my > > parents kept the house at 68 all the winter's I've lived with them. > > > > I'll feed him in the morning. They got the fish shippment yesterday, > > but I had an evening class and it snowed all afternoon so yesterday > would've > > been a really bad day to get him. So he may have gone without food for > > several days. Their stomachs are about the size of their eyes, > right? So I > > make sure the amount of food is about the same size as his eye if > you put it > > all together? That's a tiny pinch, but I can figure it out. > > > > -Kathy > > > > > > > > > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>, Amber Berglund <arberglund@> > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > 73 degrees should be just fine for him, as long as your room > temps do > > > > > not flucuate more than 3 degrees through a 24 hour period. > > > > > Did you ask when the store fed him last, or if they fed him > when he > > > > > arrived? Most likely they did not feed him yet if you just > picked him > > up > > > > > after the shipment arrived. > > > > > If you are uncertain feed him a small meal (betta's do not eat > very > > much > > > > > at all, just feed him a couple of tiny pellets or a little bit of > > > > > crushed flake food), if you're uncertain how much to feed just > start > > out > > > > > small and if he eats it in less than a few seconds you might > be able > > to > > > > > get away with feeding a little more. I feed my betta every > other day > > and > > > > > he doesn't seem to be unhealthy from it, some days I feed him > on his > > > > > normal "off day" too, so he doesn't have too many breaks in > between > > meals. > > > > > > > > > > Amber > > > > > > > > > > Kathy wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Hi all, > > > > > > Just got back from Walmart with a new betta about an hour > ago. He's > > > > > > red and blue (will post a pic as soon as I get a camera). > I've been > > > > > > slowly getting him used to the bowl water, and just about five > > minutes > > > > > > ago I let him free in the bowl. Now he's exploring. Two > questions: > > > > > > When do I give him his first meal? AND Is 73 degrees too > cool for > > him? > > > > > > That's what my thermometer is reading. > > > > > > -Kathy > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 44126	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 10/31/2009
Subject: Re: New betta

Kathy, It has been so long since I kept bettas, that I really cannot make a suggestion for you. Normally, when they have not eaten for a day or two, they'll start to investigate what you are feeding them. If you go with some freeze dried food, moisten it a bit before giving it to your fish, so that the food does not swell up much after it has been consumed. If you go to the IBC site, they have some information available to non-members of the IBC (International Betta Congress) that may be helpful. You'll also note that they have a Species Maintenance Committee aimed at those who keep wild bettas that may be of some interest to you. I helped prepare the first booklet for the SMC on wild bettas on a CPM machine using WordStar (you may not recognize the OS or the word processor, but to some here it will probably confirm to them that I am older than dirt, which is not true). Oh yeah, it had a whole 1284KB of RAM (64KB on board and another 64KB on an add in board) and a whopping 5 MB hard drive, (Steve, how the heck are you going to fill all that space?) which set me back well over $1000 for the drive alone. \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Kathy Sent: Saturday, October 31, 2009 2:19 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: New betta Thanks for the links, Steve! I'll check them out. Gosh, I need to think of a name for him. Don't know what to call him. It'll come to me though. LOL now he's showing off and acting all macho for his own reflection. They sure are fun to watch! So if he doesn't take the BettaMin (I'v decided to give him a few days on that and see if he takes it when he is more comfortable with me), what should I buy to feed him? And does time of day make any difference in how eager he is to eat? -Kathy --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Steve Szabo" <steve@...> wrote: > > First, you are entering the wild, crazy, wonderful world of bettas. Take a > look here for just some of the color types you can see in bettas (meaning > _Betta splendens_, we'll forgo the 60 or so "wild" types of bettas). Take a > look at some of the more common color types here, > http://www.bettatalk.com/betta_colors.htm. I do note a gross exception on > this page, and that is the pastels. Oh, well, I guess you can't get > everything all at once. > > Then, of course, you have tail types to consider, which are listed here: > http://www.associatedcontent.com/article/433417/overview_of_betta_fish_tail_ > types_and.html?cat=53 > http://tinyurl.com/yku2rrp > > This will give you some reading for the weekend, and, of course, there is > your friend, Google, to lead you to even more information on bettas. > > \\Steve// > > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On > Behalf Of Kathy > Sent: Saturday, October 31, 2009 12:01 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: New betta > > Thanks, Kai. > There's a bit of a problem. He apparently doesn't like Tetra BettaMin > flakes. He won't eat them. I'm pretty sure he's hungry cause he's showing > hunting behaviors, he's gotten really active and seems like he's looking for > something (I've seen the exact same behavior in my snake when he's hungry, > isnt' it weird how two animals so different can act so similar!), but he > still won't eat the BettaMin. And I won't be able to get back to WalMart > until Monday (that's when my friend is taking me to get some general > shopping done), unless I can sweet talk the people who are giving me a ride > to church tomorrow into taking me there to pick up some better betta food. > And I don't want to seem greedy about rides, I probabaly wouldn't ask cause > I'd feel like I was taking advantage of them. But anyway, what do I feed > him instead of BettaMin? > I was shocked to see so many bicolor bettas--I had thought they were solid! > At least they were when I was a kid. I grew up on class pets of either > solid red or solid blue bettas, because we couldn't have anything in the > classroom with fur or feathers. But this guy is a mix of red and blue. > There was a pink and iridescent white one (he looked like an opal) that I > liked a lot but he didn't look as healthy as my little guy. > Anyway, advice on what to feed him would be appreciated! I can tell he's > hungry, but he seems to be a picky eater! > -Kathy > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "kuradi8" <kuradi8@> wrote: > > > > "Their stomachs are about the size of their eyes." What a perfect way to > explain it! Especially to kids! (And seniors like my Mom.) > > > > Enjoy your Betta. I love mine. They have so much personality! Chow Mein > and Sweet-and-Sour are here in my office. Of course in individual tanks! > And Kala ("Fish") is downstairs with Mom. Kala is also red and blue and > also from Walmart. Twins? :o) > > > > > Basically, as long as you're comfortable, your Betta will be too. Keep > him out of the sun and away from anything that can vary his water's > temperature. > > > > Each of my tanks has a small potted aquatic plant. I used small plastic > party cups with sand and a layer of gravel on top. To clean the tank, I use > a length of air line hose rubber-banded to a long chopstick so I can vacuum > the bottom without having to stick my hand in the water. > > ~Kai > > > > > > > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Kathy" <kl_whitney@> wrote: > > > > > > Ok thanks Amber. My room's pretty stable, my suitemates keep the > thermostat for our suite at 76ish. And I don't argue, cause they're all > thin and have less.....insulation than I do. Some days I feel like I'm > burning up from the heat in the room, but I figure if they're comfortable > I'd better not argue. And the only reason it feels hot to me is that my > parents kept the house at 68 all the winter's I've lived with them. > > > I'll feed him in the morning. They got the fish shippment yesterday, > but I had an evening class and it snowed all afternoon so yesterday would've > been a really bad day to get him. So he may have gone without food for > several days. Their stomachs are about the size of their eyes, right? So I > make sure the amount of food is about the same size as his eye if you put it > all together? That's a tiny pinch, but I can figure it out. > > > -Kathy > > > > > > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, Amber Berglund <arberglund@> wrote: > > > > > > > > 73 degrees should be just fine for him, as long as your room temps do > > > > not flucuate more than 3 degrees through a 24 hour period. > > > > Did you ask when the store fed him last, or if they fed him when he > > > > arrived? Most likely they did not feed him yet if you just picked him > up > > > > after the shipment arrived. > > > > If you are uncertain feed him a small meal (betta's do not eat very > much > > > > at all, just feed him a couple of tiny pellets or a little bit of > > > > crushed flake food), if you're uncertain how much to feed just start > out > > > > small and if he eats it in less than a few seconds you might be able > to > > > > get away with feeding a little more. I feed my betta every other day > and > > > > he doesn't seem to be unhealthy from it, some days I feed him on his > > > > normal "off day" too, so he doesn't have too many breaks in between > meals. > > > > > > > > Amber > > > > > > > > Kathy wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Hi all, > > > > > Just got back from Walmart with a new betta about an hour ago. He's > > > > > red and blue (will post a pic as soon as I get a camera). I've been > > > > > slowly getting him used to the bowl water, and just about five > minutes > > > > > ago I let him free in the bowl. Now he's exploring. Two questions: > > > > > When do I give him his first meal? AND Is 73 degrees too cool for > him? > > > > > That's what my thermometer is reading. > > > > > -Kathy > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 44127	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 10/31/2009
Subject: The Aquaria Water Museum, Stockholm

Since I know a lot of you are planning on visiting Stockholm, Sweden over the course of the next few months, you may want to put this on your to do list. The first link takes you to the blog entry where I found this, and the second is to the site of The Aquaria Water Museum. Send pictures back. http://thelobby.com/2009/10/rain_forests_and_fish_ladders.php http://tinyurl.com/ycnpn97 http://www.aquaria.se/eng/start.html I suggest using IE for this site, or IE Tab in Firefox, since it seems to like to crash Firefox, maybe because of the Java errors returned in IE. \\Steve//

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 44128	From: Kathy	Date: 10/31/2009
Subject: Re: New betta

Well, he seemed to ignore it when I put it in there. Should I try again when he's paying attention to the surface? Is it possible to get bloodworms dehydrated and in a jar, so that I don't have to keep them frozen? That would be a lot more convenient. -Kathy --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, Amber Berglund <arberglund@...> wrote: > > Does he notice the food when you drop it in and just ignore it? Mine > will chase food that I drop in, but he ignores anything that floats on > the surface mostly. He seems to prefer foods that sink. I feed mine > omega one sinking shrimp pellets, I also feed frozen foods (brine > shrimp, mysis shrimp, and their favorite bloodworms), not sure if your > walmart will have frozen foods, but they are the best to get for your > fishy. If they do not and you need to get freeze dried food instead make > sure you rehydrate it in a little cup of water for a good 30 seconds or > more to soak up some water before you give it to your betta, they can > become easily constipated so it's best to feed them well hydrated foods > just to be safe. > I also make my own jello fish food as well, and he gets little chunks of > it every now and then (it has mostly frozen fish/shrimp, frozen veggies, > and some left over flake foods), I did no have liquid vitamins and such > on hand to add to the mix this last time, they don't sell them in town > so I have to order it. But I figure my homemade food can't be any worse > than some of the flake foods out there ;) > > Amber > > Kathy wrote: > > > > > > Thanks for the links, Steve! I'll check them out. Gosh, I need to > > think of a name for him. Don't know what to call him. It'll come to me > > though. > > LOL now he's showing off and acting all macho for his own reflection. > > They sure are fun to watch! > > So if he doesn't take the BettaMin (I'v decided to give him a few days > > on that and see if he takes it when he is more comfortable with me), > > what should I buy to feed him? And does time of day make any > > difference in how eager he is to eat? > > -Kathy > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>, "Steve Szabo" <steve@> wrote: > > > > > > First, you are entering the wild, crazy, wonderful world of bettas. > > Take a > > > look here for just some of the color types you can see in bettas > > (meaning > > > _Betta splendens_, we'll forgo the 60 or so "wild" types of bettas). > > Take a > > > look at some of the more common color types here, > > > http://www.bettatalk.com/betta_colors.htm. > > <http://www.bettatalk.com/betta_colors.htm.> I do note a gross > > exception on > > > this page, and that is the pastels. Oh, well, I guess you can't get > > > everything all at once. > > > > > > Then, of course, you have tail types to consider, which are listed here: > > > > > http://www.associatedcontent.com/article/433417/overview_of_betta_fish_tail_ > > <http://www.associatedcontent.com/article/433417/overview_of_betta_fish_tail_> > > > types_and.html?cat=53 > > > http://tinyurl.com/yku2rrp <http://tinyurl.com/yku2rrp> > > > > > > This will give you some reading for the weekend, and, of course, > > there is > > > your friend, Google, to lead you to even more information on bettas. > > > > > > \\Steve// > > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On > > > Behalf Of Kathy > > > Sent: Saturday, October 31, 2009 12:01 PM > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: New betta > > > > > > Thanks, Kai. > > > There's a bit of a problem. He apparently doesn't like Tetra BettaMin > > > flakes. He won't eat them. I'm pretty sure he's hungry cause he's > > showing > > > hunting behaviors, he's gotten really active and seems like he's > > looking for > > > something (I've seen the exact same behavior in my snake when he's > > hungry, > > > isnt' it weird how two animals so different can act so similar!), but he > > > still won't eat the BettaMin. And I won't be able to get back to WalMart > > > until Monday (that's when my friend is taking me to get some general > > > shopping done), unless I can sweet talk the people who are giving me > > a ride > > > to church tomorrow into taking me there to pick up some better betta > > food. > > > And I don't want to seem greedy about rides, I probabaly wouldn't > > ask cause > > > I'd feel like I was taking advantage of them. But anyway, what do I feed > > > him instead of BettaMin? > > > I was shocked to see so many bicolor bettas--I had thought they were > > solid! > > > At least they were when I was a kid. I grew up on class pets of either > > > solid red or solid blue bettas, because we couldn't have anything in the > > > classroom with fur or feathers. But this guy is a mix of red and blue. > > > There was a pink and iridescent white one (he looked like an opal) > > that I > > > liked a lot but he didn't look as healthy as my little guy. > > > Anyway, advice on what to feed him would be appreciated! I can tell he's > > > hungry, but he seems to be a picky eater! > > > -Kathy > > > > > > > > > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>, "kuradi8" <kuradi8@> wrote: > > > > > > > > "Their stomachs are about the size of their eyes." What a perfect > > way to > > > explain it! Especially to kids! (And seniors like my Mom.) > > > > > > > > Enjoy your Betta. I love mine. They have so much personality! Chow > > Mein > > > and Sweet-and-Sour are here in my office. Of course in individual tanks! > > > And Kala ("Fish") is downstairs with Mom. Kala is also red and blue and > > > also from Walmart. Twins? :o) > > > > > > > > > > > Basically, as long as you're comfortable, your Betta will be too. Keep > > > him out of the sun and away from anything that can vary his water's > > > temperature. > > > > > > > > Each of my tanks has a small potted aquatic plant. I used small > > plastic > > > party cups with sand and a layer of gravel on top. To clean the > > tank, I use > > > a length of air line hose rubber-banded to a long chopstick so I can > > vacuum > > > the bottom without having to stick my hand in the water. > > > > ~Kai > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>, "Kathy" <kl_whitney@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > Ok thanks Amber. My room's pretty stable, my suitemates keep the > > > thermostat for our suite at 76ish. And I don't argue, cause they're all > > > thin and have less.....insulation than I do. Some days I feel like I'm > > > burning up from the heat in the room, but I figure if they're > > comfortable > > > I'd better not argue. And the only reason it feels hot to me is that my > > > parents kept the house at 68 all the winter's I've lived with them. > > > > > I'll feed him in the morning. They got the fish shippment yesterday, > > > but I had an evening class and it snowed all afternoon so yesterday > > would've > > > been a really bad day to get him. So he may have gone without food for > > > several days. Their stomachs are about the size of their eyes, > > right? So I > > > make sure the amount of food is about the same size as his eye if > > you put it > > > all together? That's a tiny pinch, but I can figure it out. > > > > > -Kathy > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>, Amber Berglund <arberglund@> > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > 73 degrees should be just fine for him, as long as your room > > temps do > > > > > > not flucuate more than 3 degrees through a 24 hour period. > > > > > > Did you ask when the store fed him last, or if they fed him > > when he > > > > > > arrived? Most likely they did not feed him yet if you just > > picked him > > > up > > > > > > after the shipment arrived. > > > > > > If you are uncertain feed him a small meal (betta's do not eat > > very > > > much > > > > > > at all, just feed him a couple of tiny pellets or a little bit of > > > > > > crushed flake food), if you're uncertain how much to feed just > > start > > > out > > > > > > small and if he eats it in less than a few seconds you might > > be able > > > to > > > > > > get away with feeding a little more. I feed my betta every > > other day > > > and > > > > > > he doesn't seem to be unhealthy from it, some days I feed him > > on his > > > > > > normal "off day" too, so he doesn't have too many breaks in > > between > > > meals. > > > > > > > > > > > > Amber > > > > > > > > > > > > Kathy wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Hi all, > > > > > > > Just got back from Walmart with a new betta about an hour > > ago. He's > > > > > > > red and blue (will post a pic as soon as I get a camera). > > I've been > > > > > > > slowly getting him used to the bowl water, and just about five > > > minutes > > > > > > > ago I let him free in the bowl. Now he's exploring. Two > > questions: > > > > > > > When do I give him his first meal? AND Is 73 degrees too > > cool for > > > him? > > > > > > > That's what my thermometer is reading. > > > > > > > -Kathy > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 44129	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 10/31/2009
Subject: Re: New betta

Kathy, Bloodworms are problematic, not from the fish's point of view, but yours. Many people have allergies to the bloodworms and can break out in a rash or worse from them. People who have no allergies to them can become allergic over time. I would stay away from the freeze dried stuff. The frozen or live worms do not seem to carry the same effects. You mentioned snow in an earlier post. Were you the one dreaming of a white Halloween? \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Kathy Sent: Saturday, October 31, 2009 5:49 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: New betta Well, he seemed to ignore it when I put it in there. Should I try again when he's paying attention to the surface? Is it possible to get bloodworms dehydrated and in a jar, so that I don't have to keep them frozen? That would be a lot more convenient. -Kathy --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, Amber Berglund <arberglund@...> wrote: > > Does he notice the food when you drop it in and just ignore it? Mine > will chase food that I drop in, but he ignores anything that floats on > the surface mostly. He seems to prefer foods that sink. I feed mine > omega one sinking shrimp pellets, I also feed frozen foods (brine > shrimp, mysis shrimp, and their favorite bloodworms), not sure if your > walmart will have frozen foods, but they are the best to get for your > fishy. If they do not and you need to get freeze dried food instead make > sure you rehydrate it in a little cup of water for a good 30 seconds or > more to soak up some water before you give it to your betta, they can > become easily constipated so it's best to feed them well hydrated foods > just to be safe. > I also make my own jello fish food as well, and he gets little chunks of > it every now and then (it has mostly frozen fish/shrimp, frozen veggies, > and some left over flake foods), I did no have liquid vitamins and such > on hand to add to the mix this last time, they don't sell them in town > so I have to order it. But I figure my homemade food can't be any worse > than some of the flake foods out there ;) > > Amber > > Kathy wrote: > > > > > > Thanks for the links, Steve! I'll check them out. Gosh, I need to > > think of a name for him. Don't know what to call him. It'll come to me > > though. > > LOL now he's showing off and acting all macho for his own reflection. > > They sure are fun to watch! > > So if he doesn't take the BettaMin (I'v decided to give him a few days > > on that and see if he takes it when he is more comfortable with me), > > what should I buy to feed him? And does time of day make any > > difference in how eager he is to eat? > > -Kathy > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>, "Steve Szabo" <steve@> wrote: > > > > > > First, you are entering the wild, crazy, wonderful world of bettas. > > Take a > > > look here for just some of the color types you can see in bettas > > (meaning > > > _Betta splendens_, we'll forgo the 60 or so "wild" types of bettas). > > Take a > > > look at some of the more common color types here, > > > http://www.bettatalk.com/betta_colors.htm. > > <http://www.bettatalk.com/betta_colors.htm.> I do note a gross > > exception on > > > this page, and that is the pastels. Oh, well, I guess you can't get > > > everything all at once. > > > > > > Then, of course, you have tail types to consider, which are listed here: > > > > > http://www.associatedcontent.com/article/433417/overview_of_betta_fish_tail_ > > <http://www.associatedcontent.com/article/433417/overview_of_betta_fish_tail _> > > > types_and.html?cat=53 > > > http://tinyurl.com/yku2rrp <http://tinyurl.com/yku2rrp> > > > > > > This will give you some reading for the weekend, and, of course, > > there is > > > your friend, Google, to lead you to even more information on bettas. > > > > > > \\Steve// > > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On > > > Behalf Of Kathy > > > Sent: Saturday, October 31, 2009 12:01 PM > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: New betta > > > > > > Thanks, Kai. > > > There's a bit of a problem. He apparently doesn't like Tetra BettaMin > > > flakes. He won't eat them. I'm pretty sure he's hungry cause he's > > showing > > > hunting behaviors, he's gotten really active and seems like he's > > looking for > > > something (I've seen the exact same behavior in my snake when he's > > hungry, > > > isnt' it weird how two animals so different can act so similar!), but he > > > still won't eat the BettaMin. And I won't be able to get back to WalMart > > > until Monday (that's when my friend is taking me to get some general > > > shopping done), unless I can sweet talk the people who are giving me > > a ride > > > to church tomorrow into taking me there to pick up some better betta > > food. > > > And I don't want to seem greedy about rides, I probabaly wouldn't > > ask cause > > > I'd feel like I was taking advantage of them. But anyway, what do I feed > > > him instead of BettaMin? > > > I was shocked to see so many bicolor bettas--I had thought they were > > solid! > > > At least they were when I was a kid. I grew up on class pets of either > > > solid red or solid blue bettas, because we couldn't have anything in the > > > classroom with fur or feathers. But this guy is a mix of red and blue. > > > There was a pink and iridescent white one (he looked like an opal) > > that I > > > liked a lot but he didn't look as healthy as my little guy. > > > Anyway, advice on what to feed him would be appreciated! I can tell he's > > > hungry, but he seems to be a picky eater! > > > -Kathy > > > > > > > > > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>, "kuradi8" <kuradi8@> wrote: > > > > > > > > "Their stomachs are about the size of their eyes." What a perfect > > way to > > > explain it! Especially to kids! (And seniors like my Mom.) > > > > > > > > Enjoy your Betta. I love mine. They have so much personality! Chow > > Mein > > > and Sweet-and-Sour are here in my office. Of course in individual tanks! > > > And Kala ("Fish") is downstairs with Mom. Kala is also red and blue and > > > also from Walmart. Twins? :o) > > > > > > > > > > > Basically, as long as you're comfortable, your Betta will be too. Keep > > > him out of the sun and away from anything that can vary his water's > > > temperature. > > > > > > > > Each of my tanks has a small potted aquatic plant. I used small > > plastic > > > party cups with sand and a layer of gravel on top. To clean the > > tank, I use > > > a length of air line hose rubber-banded to a long chopstick so I can > > vacuum > > > the bottom without having to stick my hand in the water. > > > > ~Kai > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>, "Kathy" <kl_whitney@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > Ok thanks Amber. My room's pretty stable, my suitemates keep the > > > thermostat for our suite at 76ish. And I don't argue, cause they're all > > > thin and have less.....insulation than I do. Some days I feel like I'm > > > burning up from the heat in the room, but I figure if they're > > comfortable > > > I'd better not argue. And the only reason it feels hot to me is that my > > > parents kept the house at 68 all the winter's I've lived with them. > > > > > I'll feed him in the morning. They got the fish shippment yesterday, > > > but I had an evening class and it snowed all afternoon so yesterday > > would've > > > been a really bad day to get him. So he may have gone without food for > > > several days. Their stomachs are about the size of their eyes, > > right? So I > > > make sure the amount of food is about the same size as his eye if > > you put it > > > all together? That's a tiny pinch, but I can figure it out. > > > > > -Kathy > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>, Amber Berglund <arberglund@> > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > 73 degrees should be just fine for him, as long as your room > > temps do > > > > > > not flucuate more than 3 degrees through a 24 hour period. > > > > > > Did you ask when the store fed him last, or if they fed him > > when he > > > > > > arrived? Most likely they did not feed him yet if you just > > picked him > > > up > > > > > > after the shipment arrived. > > > > > > If you are uncertain feed him a small meal (betta's do not eat > > very > > > much > > > > > > at all, just feed him a couple of tiny pellets or a little bit of > > > > > > crushed flake food), if you're uncertain how much to feed just > > start > > > out > > > > > > small and if he eats it in less than a few seconds you might > > be able > > > to > > > > > > get away with feeding a little more. I feed my betta every > > other day > > > and > > > > > > he doesn't seem to be unhealthy from it, some days I feed him > > on his > > > > > > normal "off day" too, so he doesn't have too many breaks in > > between > > > meals. > > > > > > > > > > > > Amber > > > > > > > > > > > > Kathy wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Hi all, > > > > > > > Just got back from Walmart with a new betta about an hour > > ago. He's > > > > > > > red and blue (will post a pic as soon as I get a camera). > > I've been > > > > > > > slowly getting him used to the bowl water, and just about five > > > minutes > > > > > > > ago I let him free in the bowl. Now he's exploring. Two > > questions: > > > > > > > When do I give him his first meal? AND Is 73 degrees too > > cool for > > > him? > > > > > > > That's what my thermometer is reading. > > > > > > > -Kathy > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ------------------------------------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the home page. Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com to receive the digest, which includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com for the No E-Mail option where you will still be able to read messages on the group and post replies. Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com to receive individual e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 44130	From: Dora Smith	Date: 10/31/2009
Subject: Re: New betta

I don't think any fish likes tetra betta min flakes. Yours, Dora Smith Austin, TX tiggernut24@... ----- Original Message ----- From: "Kathy" <kl_whitney@...> To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Saturday, October 31, 2009 10:01 AM Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: New betta Thanks, Kai. There's a bit of a problem. He apparently doesn't like Tetra BettaMin flakes. He won't eat them. I'm pretty sure he's hungry cause he's showing hunting behaviors, he's gotten really active and seems like he's looking for something (I've seen the exact same behavior in my snake when he's hungry, isnt' it weird how two animals so different can act so similar!), but he still won't eat the BettaMin. And I won't be able to get back to WalMart until Monday (that's when my friend is taking me to get some general shopping done), unless I can sweet talk the people who are giving me a ride to church tomorrow into taking me there to pick up some better betta food. And I don't want to seem greedy about rides, I probabaly wouldn't ask cause I'd feel like I was taking advantage of them. But anyway, what do I feed him instead of BettaMin? I was shocked to see so many bicolor bettas--I had thought they were solid! At least they were when I was a kid. I grew up on class pets of either solid red or solid blue bettas, because we couldn't have anything in the classroom with fur or feathers. But this guy is a mix of red and blue. There was a pink and iridescent white one (he looked like an opal) that I liked a lot but he didn't look as healthy as my little guy. Anyway, advice on what to feed him would be appreciated! I can tell he's hungry, but he seems to be a picky eater! -Kathy --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "kuradi8" <kuradi8@...> wrote: > > "Their stomachs are about the size of their eyes." What a perfect way to > explain it! Especially to kids! (And seniors like my Mom.) > > Enjoy your Betta. I love mine. They have so much personality! Chow Mein > and Sweet-and-Sour are here in my office. Of course in individual tanks! > And Kala ("Fish") is downstairs with Mom. Kala is also red and blue and > also from Walmart. Twins? :o) > > Basically, as long as you're comfortable, your Betta will be too. Keep > him out of the sun and away from anything that can vary his water's > temperature. > > Each of my tanks has a small potted aquatic plant. I used small plastic > party cups with sand and a layer of gravel on top. To clean the tank, I > use a length of air line hose rubber-banded to a long chopstick so I can > vacuum the bottom without having to stick my hand in the water. > ~Kai > > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Kathy" <kl_whitney@> wrote: > > > > Ok thanks Amber. My room's pretty stable, my suitemates keep the > > thermostat for our suite at 76ish. And I don't argue, cause they're all > > thin and have less.....insulation than I do. Some days I feel like I'm > > burning up from the heat in the room, but I figure if they're > > comfortable I'd better not argue. And the only reason it feels hot to > > me is that my parents kept the house at 68 all the winter's I've lived > > with them. > > I'll feed him in the morning. They got the fish shippment yesterday, > > but I had an evening class and it snowed all afternoon so yesterday > > would've been a really bad day to get him. So he may have gone without > > food for several days. Their stomachs are about the size of their eyes, > > right? So I make sure the amount of food is about the same size as his > > eye if you put it all together? That's a tiny pinch, but I can figure > > it out. > > -Kathy > > > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, Amber Berglund <arberglund@> wrote: > > > > > > 73 degrees should be just fine for him, as long as your room temps do > > > not flucuate more than 3 degrees through a 24 hour period. > > > Did you ask when the store fed him last, or if they fed him when he > > > arrived? Most likely they did not feed him yet if you just picked him > > > up > > > after the shipment arrived. > > > If you are uncertain feed him a small meal (betta's do not eat very > > > much > > > at all, just feed him a couple of tiny pellets or a little bit of > > > crushed flake food), if you're uncertain how much to feed just start > > > out > > > small and if he eats it in less than a few seconds you might be able > > > to > > > get away with feeding a little more. I feed my betta every other day > > > and > > > he doesn't seem to be unhealthy from it, some days I feed him on his > > > normal "off day" too, so he doesn't have too many breaks in between > > > meals. > > > > > > Amber > > > > > > Kathy wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > Hi all, > > > > Just got back from Walmart with a new betta about an hour ago. He's > > > > red and blue (will post a pic as soon as I get a camera). I've been > > > > slowly getting him used to the bowl water, and just about five > > > > minutes > > > > ago I let him free in the bowl. Now he's exploring. Two questions: > > > > When do I give him his first meal? AND Is 73 degrees too cool for > > > > him? > > > > That's what my thermometer is reading. > > > > -Kathy > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ------------------------------------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the home page. Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com to receive the digest, which includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com for the No E-Mail option where you will still be able to read messages on the group and post replies. Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com to receive individual e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 44131	From: Dora Smith	Date: 10/31/2009
Subject: Re: New betta

Yup. Blood worms, about three of them. But I understand it isn't good to feed them to them constantly. Nevertheless that's all my housemate ever fed hers - every other day. They're really midge larva or something. You can also feed them frozen brine shrimp, but they aren't as nutritious. Yours, Dora Smith Austin, TX tiggernut24@... ----- Original Message ----- From: "Kathy" <kl_whitney@...> To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Saturday, October 31, 2009 10:03 AM Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: New betta Thanks Dora. I don't think Walmart carries either brand. And there's already been two snowstorms, so I can't give him mosquito larvae. Is there some sort of freeze dried insect I can feed him? -Kathy --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Dora Smith" <tiggernut24@...> wrote: > > I've found mine does best on two to three Ocean Nutrition Atison's betta > food two to three times a day - or equivalent in flake. He also gets > formula one flakes - the red kind. He'll eat forumula two - the green > ones - less happily if he's starving. And Spectrum small fish pellets. > Those are all relatively high quality foods. And every once in awhile I > give him a little HBH Betta Colorbright, but I don't think that's as high > quality a food. > > He's supposed to get more frozen/ fresh food than he does. He LOVES > mo'quito larbas, if there are still any around where you live. Google > image > them; you can scoop a fish net over standing water, and easily pick them > off > the surface; tehy're good sized and easy to recognize and catch. > > Yours, > Dora Smith > Austin, TX > tiggernut24@... > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Kathy" <kl_whitney@...> > To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com> > Sent: Saturday, October 31, 2009 12:40 AM > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: New betta > > > Ok thanks Amber. My room's pretty stable, my suitemates keep the > thermostat > for our suite at 76ish. And I don't argue, cause they're all thin and > have > less.....insulation than I do. Some days I feel like I'm burning up from > the heat in the room, but I figure if they're comfortable I'd better not > argue. And the only reason it feels hot to me is that my parents kept the > house at 68 all the winter's I've lived with them. > I'll feed him in the morning. They got the fish shippment yesterday, but > I > had an evening class and it snowed all afternoon so yesterday would've > been > a really bad day to get him. So he may have gone without food for several > days. Their stomachs are about the size of their eyes, right? So I make > sure the amount of food is about the same size as his eye if you put it > all > together? That's a tiny pinch, but I can figure it out. > -Kathy > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, Amber Berglund <arberglund@> wrote: > > > > 73 degrees should be just fine for him, as long as your room temps do > > not flucuate more than 3 degrees through a 24 hour period. > > Did you ask when the store fed him last, or if they fed him when he > > arrived? Most likely they did not feed him yet if you just picked him up > > after the shipment arrived. > > If you are uncertain feed him a small meal (betta's do not eat very much > > at all, just feed him a couple of tiny pellets or a little bit of > > crushed flake food), if you're uncertain how much to feed just start out > > small and if he eats it in less than a few seconds you might be able to > > get away with feeding a little more. I feed my betta every other day and > > he doesn't seem to be unhealthy from it, some days I feed him on his > > normal "off day" too, so he doesn't have too many breaks in between > > meals. > > > > Amber > > > > Kathy wrote: > > > > > > > > > Hi all, > > > Just got back from Walmart with a new betta about an hour ago. He's > > > red and blue (will post a pic as soon as I get a camera). I've been > > > slowly getting him used to the bowl water, and just about five minutes > > > ago I let him free in the bowl. Now he's exploring. Two questions: > > > When do I give him his first meal? AND Is 73 degrees too cool for him? > > > That's what my thermometer is reading. > > > -Kathy > > > > > > > > > > > > > ------------------------------------ > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. > ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> > PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to > the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the > SUBJECT > LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- > <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. > > If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of unsubscribing, you > can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the > home page. > > Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com to receive the digest, which > includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email > > Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com for the No E-Mail option where > you will still be able to read messages on the group and post replies. > > Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com to receive individual > e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links > ------------------------------------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the home page. Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com to receive the digest, which includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com for the No E-Mail option where you will still be able to read messages on the group and post replies. Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com to receive individual e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 44132	From: Kathy	Date: 10/31/2009
Subject: He ate! Re: New betta

So I put in another itty bitty pinch of food when he was paying attention. And he ate his fill. I think it's just a matter of giving him his food when he's near the surface and paying attention to what I'm doing. Otherwise he doesn't notice and he won't eat. I'll just make sure he's paying attention next time I try to feed him. Guess he has to have the right conditions to eat. Kinda like my snake, Serpi (short for Serpenticulus). Serpi is so spoiled that he is never sure what to do about eating in a feeding cage. He's used to being hand fed (he sits on my lap and I hand the mice to him), so he just gets this confused look on his face when I'm pressed for time and put him in the feeding cage with his prekilled mice. BTW, the betta has a name now. I've decided to call him Pisces. I wasn't sure at first, it was a name I was considering, but now it just seems right for him. Is it weird that I talk to him on occasion? Does anyone else here talk to their fish? -Kathy --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Dora Smith" <tiggernut24@...> wrote: > > Yup. Blood worms, about three of them. But I understand it isn't good to > feed them to them constantly. Nevertheless that's all my housemate ever > fed hers - every other day. > > They're really midge larva or something. You can also feed them frozen > brine shrimp, but they aren't as nutritious. > > Yours, > Dora Smith > Austin, TX > tiggernut24@... > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Kathy" <kl_whitney@...> > To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com> > Sent: Saturday, October 31, 2009 10:03 AM > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: New betta > > > Thanks Dora. I don't think Walmart carries either brand. And there's > already been two snowstorms, so I can't give him mosquito larvae. Is there > some sort of freeze dried insect I can feed him? > -Kathy > > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Dora Smith" <tiggernut24@> wrote: > > > > I've found mine does best on two to three Ocean Nutrition Atison's betta > > food two to three times a day - or equivalent in flake. He also gets > > formula one flakes - the red kind. He'll eat forumula two - the green > > ones - less happily if he's starving. And Spectrum small fish pellets. > > Those are all relatively high quality foods. And every once in awhile I > > give him a little HBH Betta Colorbright, but I don't think that's as high > > quality a food. > > > > He's supposed to get more frozen/ fresh food than he does. He LOVES > > mo'quito larbas, if there are still any around where you live. Google > > image > > them; you can scoop a fish net over standing water, and easily pick them > > off > > the surface; tehy're good sized and easy to recognize and catch. > > > > Yours, > > Dora Smith > > Austin, TX > > tiggernut24@ > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: "Kathy" <kl_whitney@> > > To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com> > > Sent: Saturday, October 31, 2009 12:40 AM > > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: New betta > > > > > > Ok thanks Amber. My room's pretty stable, my suitemates keep the > > thermostat > > for our suite at 76ish. And I don't argue, cause they're all thin and > > have > > less.....insulation than I do. Some days I feel like I'm burning up from > > the heat in the room, but I figure if they're comfortable I'd better not > > argue. And the only reason it feels hot to me is that my parents kept the > > house at 68 all the winter's I've lived with them. > > I'll feed him in the morning. They got the fish shippment yesterday, but > > I > > had an evening class and it snowed all afternoon so yesterday would've > > been > > a really bad day to get him. So he may have gone without food for several > > days. Their stomachs are about the size of their eyes, right? So I make > > sure the amount of food is about the same size as his eye if you put it > > all > > together? That's a tiny pinch, but I can figure it out. > > -Kathy > > > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, Amber Berglund <arberglund@> wrote: > > > > > > 73 degrees should be just fine for him, as long as your room temps do > > > not flucuate more than 3 degrees through a 24 hour period. > > > Did you ask when the store fed him last, or if they fed him when he > > > arrived? Most likely they did not feed him yet if you just picked him up > > > after the shipment arrived. > > > If you are uncertain feed him a small meal (betta's do not eat very much > > > at all, just feed him a couple of tiny pellets or a little bit of > > > crushed flake food), if you're uncertain how much to feed just start out > > > small and if he eats it in less than a few seconds you might be able to > > > get away with feeding a little more. I feed my betta every other day and > > > he doesn't seem to be unhealthy from it, some days I feed him on his > > > normal "off day" too, so he doesn't have too many breaks in between > > > meals. > > > > > > Amber > > > > > > Kathy wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > Hi all, > > > > Just got back from Walmart with a new betta about an hour ago. He's > > > > red and blue (will post a pic as soon as I get a camera). I've been > > > > slowly getting him used to the bowl water, and just about five minutes > > > > ago I let him free in the bowl. Now he's exploring. Two questions: > > > > When do I give him his first meal? AND Is 73 degrees too cool for him? > > > > That's what my thermometer is reading. > > > > -Kathy > > > > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 44133	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 10/31/2009
Subject: Re: He ate! Re: New betta

I talk to mine on occasion, so I think that's normal, but if you start expecting an answer that's not so normal ;) LOL. Amber Kathy wrote: > > > So I put in another itty bitty pinch of food when he was paying > attention. And he ate his fill. I think it's just a matter of giving > him his food when he's near the surface and paying attention to what > I'm doing. Otherwise he doesn't notice and he won't eat. I'll just > make sure he's paying attention next time I try to feed him. Guess he > has to have the right conditions to eat. > Kinda like my snake, Serpi (short for Serpenticulus). Serpi is so > spoiled that he is never sure what to do about eating in a feeding > cage. He's used to being hand fed (he sits on my lap and I hand the > mice to him), so he just gets this confused look on his face when I'm > pressed for time and put him in the feeding cage with his prekilled mice. > BTW, the betta has a name now. I've decided to call him Pisces. I > wasn't sure at first, it was a name I was considering, but now it just > seems right for him. Is it weird that I talk to him on occasion? Does > anyone else here talk to their fish? > -Kathy > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>, "Dora Smith" <tiggernut24@...> > wrote: > > > > Yup. Blood worms, about three of them. But I understand it isn't > good to > > feed them to them constantly. Nevertheless that's all my housemate ever > > fed hers - every other day. > > > > They're really midge larva or something. You can also feed them frozen > > brine shrimp, but they aren't as nutritious. > > > > Yours, > > Dora Smith > > Austin, TX > > tiggernut24@... > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: "Kathy" <kl_whitney@...> > > To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>> > > Sent: Saturday, October 31, 2009 10:03 AM > > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: New betta > > > > > > Thanks Dora. I don't think Walmart carries either brand. And there's > > already been two snowstorms, so I can't give him mosquito larvae. Is > there > > some sort of freeze dried insect I can feed him? > > -Kathy > > > > > > > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>, "Dora Smith" <tiggernut24@> wrote: > > > > > > I've found mine does best on two to three Ocean Nutrition Atison's > betta > > > food two to three times a day - or equivalent in flake. He also gets > > > formula one flakes - the red kind. He'll eat forumula two - the green > > > ones - less happily if he's starving. And Spectrum small fish pellets. > > > Those are all relatively high quality foods. And every once in > awhile I > > > give him a little HBH Betta Colorbright, but I don't think that's > as high > > > quality a food. > > > > > > He's supposed to get more frozen/ fresh food than he does. He LOVES > > > mo'quito larbas, if there are still any around where you live. Google > > > image > > > them; you can scoop a fish net over standing water, and easily > pick them > > > off > > > the surface; tehy're good sized and easy to recognize and catch. > > > > > > Yours, > > > Dora Smith > > > Austin, TX > > > tiggernut24@ > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > From: "Kathy" <kl_whitney@> > > > To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>> > > > Sent: Saturday, October 31, 2009 12:40 AM > > > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: New betta > > > > > > > > > Ok thanks Amber. My room's pretty stable, my suitemates keep the > > > thermostat > > > for our suite at 76ish. And I don't argue, cause they're all thin and > > > have > > > less.....insulation than I do. Some days I feel like I'm burning > up from > > > the heat in the room, but I figure if they're comfortable I'd > better not > > > argue. And the only reason it feels hot to me is that my parents > kept the > > > house at 68 all the winter's I've lived with them. > > > I'll feed him in the morning. They got the fish shippment > yesterday, but > > > I > > > had an evening class and it snowed all afternoon so yesterday > would've > > > been > > > a really bad day to get him. So he may have gone without food for > several > > > days. Their stomachs are about the size of their eyes, right? So I > make > > > sure the amount of food is about the same size as his eye if you > put it > > > all > > > together? That's a tiny pinch, but I can figure it out. > > > -Kathy > > > > > > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>, Amber Berglund <arberglund@> > wrote: > > > > > > > > 73 degrees should be just fine for him, as long as your room > temps do > > > > not flucuate more than 3 degrees through a 24 hour period. > > > > Did you ask when the store fed him last, or if they fed him when he > > > > arrived? Most likely they did not feed him yet if you just > picked him up > > > > after the shipment arrived. > > > > If you are uncertain feed him a small meal (betta's do not eat > very much > > > > at all, just feed him a couple of tiny pellets or a little bit of > > > > crushed flake food), if you're uncertain how much to feed just > start out > > > > small and if he eats it in less than a few seconds you might be > able to > > > > get away with feeding a little more. I feed my betta every other > day and > > > > he doesn't seem to be unhealthy from it, some days I feed him on his > > > > normal "off day" too, so he doesn't have too many breaks in between > > > > meals. > > > > > > > > Amber > > > > > > > > Kathy wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Hi all, > > > > > Just got back from Walmart with a new betta about an hour ago. > He's > > > > > red and blue (will post a pic as soon as I get a camera). I've > been > > > > > slowly getting him used to the bowl water, and just about five > minutes > > > > > ago I let him free in the bowl. Now he's exploring. Two questions: > > > > > When do I give him his first meal? AND Is 73 degrees too cool > for him? > > > > > That's what my thermometer is reading. > > > > > -Kathy > > > > > > > > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 44134	From: Kathy	Date: 10/31/2009
Subject: Re: New betta

Ok, thanks for letting me know. Would it be better to feed him dried bloodworms with tweezers while wearing rubber gloves? I have both, though the tweezers are supposed to be for shaping my eyebrows ;) and the gloves are the kind you wash dishes or clean bathrooms with. The gloves are clean, brand new, but the tweezers would need a washing before I used them to feed Pisces because I've been using them to shape my eyebrows. -Kathy --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Steve Szabo" <steve@...> wrote: > > Kathy, > > Bloodworms are problematic, not from the fish's point of view, but yours. > Many people have allergies to the bloodworms and can break out in a rash or > worse from them. People who have no allergies to them can become allergic > over time. I would stay away from the freeze dried stuff. The frozen or live > worms do not seem to carry the same effects. > > You mentioned snow in an earlier post. Were you the one dreaming of a white > Halloween? > > \\Steve// > > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On > Behalf Of Kathy > Sent: Saturday, October 31, 2009 5:49 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: New betta > > Well, he seemed to ignore it when I put it in there. Should I try again > when he's paying attention to the surface? Is it possible to get bloodworms > dehydrated and in a jar, so that I don't have to keep them frozen? That > would be a lot more convenient. > -Kathy > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, Amber Berglund <arberglund@> wrote: > > > > Does he notice the food when you drop it in and just ignore it? Mine > > will chase food that I drop in, but he ignores anything that floats on > > the surface mostly. He seems to prefer foods that sink. I feed mine > > omega one sinking shrimp pellets, I also feed frozen foods (brine > > shrimp, mysis shrimp, and their favorite bloodworms), not sure if your > > walmart will have frozen foods, but they are the best to get for your > > fishy. If they do not and you need to get freeze dried food instead make > > sure you rehydrate it in a little cup of water for a good 30 seconds or > > more to soak up some water before you give it to your betta, they can > > become easily constipated so it's best to feed them well hydrated foods > > just to be safe. > > I also make my own jello fish food as well, and he gets little chunks of > > it every now and then (it has mostly frozen fish/shrimp, frozen veggies, > > and some left over flake foods), I did no have liquid vitamins and such > > on hand to add to the mix this last time, they don't sell them in town > > so I have to order it. But I figure my homemade food can't be any worse > > than some of the flake foods out there ;) > > > > Amber > > > > Kathy wrote: > > > > > > > > > Thanks for the links, Steve! I'll check them out. Gosh, I need to > > > think of a name for him. Don't know what to call him. It'll come to me > > > though. > > > LOL now he's showing off and acting all macho for his own reflection. > > > They sure are fun to watch! > > > So if he doesn't take the BettaMin (I'v decided to give him a few days > > > on that and see if he takes it when he is more comfortable with me), > > > what should I buy to feed him? And does time of day make any > > > difference in how eager he is to eat? > > > -Kathy > > > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>, "Steve Szabo" <steve@> wrote: > > > > > > > > First, you are entering the wild, crazy, wonderful world of bettas. > > > Take a > > > > look here for just some of the color types you can see in bettas > > > (meaning > > > > _Betta splendens_, we'll forgo the 60 or so "wild" types of bettas). > > > Take a > > > > look at some of the more common color types here, > > > > http://www.bettatalk.com/betta_colors.htm. > > > <http://www.bettatalk.com/betta_colors.htm.> I do note a gross > > > exception on > > > > this page, and that is the pastels. Oh, well, I guess you can't get > > > > everything all at once. > > > > > > > > Then, of course, you have tail types to consider, which are listed > here: > > > > > > > > http://www.associatedcontent.com/article/433417/overview_of_betta_fish_tail_ > > > > > <http://www.associatedcontent.com/article/433417/overview_of_betta_fish_tail > _> > > > > types_and.html?cat=53 > > > > http://tinyurl.com/yku2rrp <http://tinyurl.com/yku2rrp> > > > > > > > > This will give you some reading for the weekend, and, of course, > > > there is > > > > your friend, Google, to lead you to even more information on bettas. > > > > > > > > \\Steve// > > > > > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On > > > > Behalf Of Kathy > > > > Sent: Saturday, October 31, 2009 12:01 PM > > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: New betta > > > > > > > > Thanks, Kai. > > > > There's a bit of a problem. He apparently doesn't like Tetra BettaMin > > > > flakes. He won't eat them. I'm pretty sure he's hungry cause he's > > > showing > > > > hunting behaviors, he's gotten really active and seems like he's > > > looking for > > > > something (I've seen the exact same behavior in my snake when he's > > > hungry, > > > > isnt' it weird how two animals so different can act so similar!), but > he > > > > still won't eat the BettaMin. And I won't be able to get back to > WalMart > > > > until Monday (that's when my friend is taking me to get some general > > > > shopping done), unless I can sweet talk the people who are giving me > > > a ride > > > > to church tomorrow into taking me there to pick up some better betta > > > food. > > > > And I don't want to seem greedy about rides, I probabaly wouldn't > > > ask cause > > > > I'd feel like I was taking advantage of them. But anyway, what do I > feed > > > > him instead of BettaMin? > > > > I was shocked to see so many bicolor bettas--I had thought they were > > > solid! > > > > At least they were when I was a kid. I grew up on class pets of either > > > > solid red or solid blue bettas, because we couldn't have anything in > the > > > > classroom with fur or feathers. But this guy is a mix of red and blue. > > > > There was a pink and iridescent white one (he looked like an opal) > > > that I > > > > liked a lot but he didn't look as healthy as my little guy. > > > > Anyway, advice on what to feed him would be appreciated! I can tell > he's > > > > hungry, but he seems to be a picky eater! > > > > -Kathy > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>, "kuradi8" <kuradi8@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > "Their stomachs are about the size of their eyes." What a perfect > > > way to > > > > explain it! Especially to kids! (And seniors like my Mom.) > > > > > > > > > > Enjoy your Betta. I love mine. They have so much personality! Chow > > > Mein > > > > and Sweet-and-Sour are here in my office. Of course in individual > tanks! > > > > And Kala ("Fish") is downstairs with Mom. Kala is also red and blue > and > > > > also from Walmart. Twins? :o) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Basically, as long as you're comfortable, your Betta will be too. > Keep > > > > him out of the sun and away from anything that can vary his water's > > > > temperature. > > > > > > > > > > Each of my tanks has a small potted aquatic plant. I used small > > > plastic > > > > party cups with sand and a layer of gravel on top. To clean the > > > tank, I use > > > > a length of air line hose rubber-banded to a long chopstick so I can > > > vacuum > > > > the bottom without having to stick my hand in the water. > > > > > ~Kai > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>, "Kathy" <kl_whitney@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > Ok thanks Amber. My room's pretty stable, my suitemates keep the > > > > thermostat for our suite at 76ish. And I don't argue, cause they're > all > > > > thin and have less.....insulation than I do. Some days I feel like I'm > > > > burning up from the heat in the room, but I figure if they're > > > comfortable > > > > I'd better not argue. And the only reason it feels hot to me is that > my > > > > parents kept the house at 68 all the winter's I've lived with them. > > > > > > I'll feed him in the morning. They got the fish shippment > yesterday, > > > > but I had an evening class and it snowed all afternoon so yesterday > > > would've > > > > been a really bad day to get him. So he may have gone without food for > > > > several days. Their stomachs are about the size of their eyes, > > > right? So I > > > > make sure the amount of food is about the same size as his eye if > > > you put it > > > > all together? That's a tiny pinch, but I can figure it out. > > > > > > -Kathy > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>, Amber Berglund <arberglund@> > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 73 degrees should be just fine for him, as long as your room > > > temps do > > > > > > > not flucuate more than 3 degrees through a 24 hour period. > > > > > > > Did you ask when the store fed him last, or if they fed him > > > when he > > > > > > > arrived? Most likely they did not feed him yet if you just > > > picked him > > > > up > > > > > > > after the shipment arrived. > > > > > > > If you are uncertain feed him a small meal (betta's do not eat > > > very > > > > much > > > > > > > at all, just feed him a couple of tiny pellets or a little bit > of > > > > > > > crushed flake food), if you're uncertain how much to feed just > > > start > > > > out > > > > > > > small and if he eats it in less than a few seconds you might > > > be able > > > > to > > > > > > > get away with feeding a little more. I feed my betta every > > > other day > > > > and > > > > > > > he doesn't seem to be unhealthy from it, some days I feed him > > > on his > > > > > > > normal "off day" too, so he doesn't have too many breaks in > > > between > > > > meals. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Amber > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Kathy wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Hi all, > > > > > > > > Just got back from Walmart with a new betta about an hour > > > ago. He's > > > > > > > > red and blue (will post a pic as soon as I get a camera). > > > I've been > > > > > > > > slowly getting him used to the bowl water, and just about five > > > > minutes > > > > > > > > ago I let him free in the bowl. Now he's exploring. Two > > > questions: > > > > > > > > When do I give him his first meal? AND Is 73 degrees too > > > cool for > > > > him? > > > > > > > > That's what my thermometer is reading. > > > > > > > > -Kathy > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ------------------------------------ > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. > ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> > PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to > the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT > LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- > <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. > > If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of unsubscribing, you > can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the > home page. > > Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com to receive the digest, which > includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email > > Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com for the No E-Mail option where > you will still be able to read messages on the group and post replies. > > Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com to receive individual > e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 44135	From: Kathy	Date: 10/31/2009
Subject: He ate! Re: New betta

LOL yeah, I'm not expecting an answer. Never expect an answer from anything without vocal cords....my cat will answer me, but not with human words (BTW cats have a "vocabulary" at least twice that of dogs...they have a lot more different meows than dogs have barks). I sometimes talk to the houseplants, so I guess I'm just one that talks to whatever I'm nurturing. -Kathy --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, Amber Berglund <arberglund@...> wrote: > > I talk to mine on occasion, so I think that's normal, but if you start > expecting an answer that's not so normal ;) LOL. > > Amber > > Kathy wrote: > > > > > > So I put in another itty bitty pinch of food when he was paying > > attention. And he ate his fill. I think it's just a matter of giving > > him his food when he's near the surface and paying attention to what > > I'm doing. Otherwise he doesn't notice and he won't eat. I'll just > > make sure he's paying attention next time I try to feed him. Guess he > > has to have the right conditions to eat. > > Kinda like my snake, Serpi (short for Serpenticulus). Serpi is so > > spoiled that he is never sure what to do about eating in a feeding > > cage. He's used to being hand fed (he sits on my lap and I hand the > > mice to him), so he just gets this confused look on his face when I'm > > pressed for time and put him in the feeding cage with his prekilled mice. > > BTW, the betta has a name now. I've decided to call him Pisces. I > > wasn't sure at first, it was a name I was considering, but now it just > > seems right for him. Is it weird that I talk to him on occasion? Does > > anyone else here talk to their fish? > > -Kathy > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>, "Dora Smith" <tiggernut24@> > > wrote: > > > > > > Yup. Blood worms, about three of them. But I understand it isn't > > good to > > > feed them to them constantly. Nevertheless that's all my housemate ever > > > fed hers - every other day. > > > > > > They're really midge larva or something. You can also feed them frozen > > > brine shrimp, but they aren't as nutritious. > > > > > > Yours, > > > Dora Smith > > > Austin, TX > > > tiggernut24@ > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > From: "Kathy" <kl_whitney@> > > > To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>> > > > Sent: Saturday, October 31, 2009 10:03 AM > > > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: New betta > > > > > > > > > Thanks Dora. I don't think Walmart carries either brand. And there's > > > already been two snowstorms, so I can't give him mosquito larvae. Is > > there > > > some sort of freeze dried insect I can feed him? > > > -Kathy > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>, "Dora Smith" <tiggernut24@> wrote: > > > > > > > > I've found mine does best on two to three Ocean Nutrition Atison's > > betta > > > > food two to three times a day - or equivalent in flake. He also gets > > > > formula one flakes - the red kind. He'll eat forumula two - the green > > > > ones - less happily if he's starving. And Spectrum small fish pellets. > > > > Those are all relatively high quality foods. And every once in > > awhile I > > > > give him a little HBH Betta Colorbright, but I don't think that's > > as high > > > > quality a food. > > > > > > > > He's supposed to get more frozen/ fresh food than he does. He LOVES > > > > mo'quito larbas, if there are still any around where you live. Google > > > > image > > > > them; you can scoop a fish net over standing water, and easily > > pick them > > > > off > > > > the surface; tehy're good sized and easy to recognize and catch. > > > > > > > > Yours, > > > > Dora Smith > > > > Austin, TX > > > > tiggernut24@ > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > > From: "Kathy" <kl_whitney@> > > > > To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>> > > > > Sent: Saturday, October 31, 2009 12:40 AM > > > > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: New betta > > > > > > > > > > > > Ok thanks Amber. My room's pretty stable, my suitemates keep the > > > > thermostat > > > > for our suite at 76ish. And I don't argue, cause they're all thin and > > > > have > > > > less.....insulation than I do. Some days I feel like I'm burning > > up from > > > > the heat in the room, but I figure if they're comfortable I'd > > better not > > > > argue. And the only reason it feels hot to me is that my parents > > kept the > > > > house at 68 all the winter's I've lived with them. > > > > I'll feed him in the morning. They got the fish shippment > > yesterday, but > > > > I > > > > had an evening class and it snowed all afternoon so yesterday > > would've > > > > been > > > > a really bad day to get him. So he may have gone without food for > > several > > > > days. Their stomachs are about the size of their eyes, right? So I > > make > > > > sure the amount of food is about the same size as his eye if you > > put it > > > > all > > > > together? That's a tiny pinch, but I can figure it out. > > > > -Kathy > > > > > > > > > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>, Amber Berglund <arberglund@> > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > 73 degrees should be just fine for him, as long as your room > > temps do > > > > > not flucuate more than 3 degrees through a 24 hour period. > > > > > Did you ask when the store fed him last, or if they fed him when he > > > > > arrived? Most likely they did not feed him yet if you just > > picked him up > > > > > after the shipment arrived. > > > > > If you are uncertain feed him a small meal (betta's do not eat > > very much > > > > > at all, just feed him a couple of tiny pellets or a little bit of > > > > > crushed flake food), if you're uncertain how much to feed just > > start out > > > > > small and if he eats it in less than a few seconds you might be > > able to > > > > > get away with feeding a little more. I feed my betta every other > > day and > > > > > he doesn't seem to be unhealthy from it, some days I feed him on his > > > > > normal "off day" too, so he doesn't have too many breaks in between > > > > > meals. > > > > > > > > > > Amber > > > > > > > > > > Kathy wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Hi all, > > > > > > Just got back from Walmart with a new betta about an hour ago. > > He's > > > > > > red and blue (will post a pic as soon as I get a camera). I've > > been > > > > > > slowly getting him used to the bowl water, and just about five > > minutes > > > > > > ago I let him free in the bowl. Now he's exploring. Two questions: > > > > > > When do I give him his first meal? AND Is 73 degrees too cool > > for him? > > > > > > That's what my thermometer is reading. > > > > > > -Kathy > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 44136	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 10/31/2009
Subject: Re: New betta

Kathy, I do not think you need to go to all that trouble, unless you start to notice what may be symptoms of the allergy. Just don't buy any more <g>. I just wanted to let you know that a good number of people have this problem. Astronomy Domine--live recording, WOW! (playing in the background, can you hear it? <g>). Probably recorded before you were born <G>. Coming up . . . Atom Heart Mother--20 minutes worth! \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Kathy Sent: Saturday, October 31, 2009 7:14 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: New betta Ok, thanks for letting me know. Would it be better to feed him dried bloodworms with tweezers while wearing rubber gloves? I have both, though the tweezers are supposed to be for shaping my eyebrows ;) and the gloves are the kind you wash dishes or clean bathrooms with. The gloves are clean, brand new, but the tweezers would need a washing before I used them to feed Pisces because I've been using them to shape my eyebrows. -Kathy --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Steve Szabo" <steve@...> wrote: > > Kathy, > > Bloodworms are problematic, not from the fish's point of view, but yours. > Many people have allergies to the bloodworms and can break out in a rash or > worse from them. People who have no allergies to them can become allergic > over time. I would stay away from the freeze dried stuff. The frozen or live > worms do not seem to carry the same effects. > > You mentioned snow in an earlier post. Were you the one dreaming of a white > Halloween? > > \\Steve// > > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On > Behalf Of Kathy > Sent: Saturday, October 31, 2009 5:49 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: New betta > > Well, he seemed to ignore it when I put it in there. Should I try again > when he's paying attention to the surface? Is it possible to get bloodworms > dehydrated and in a jar, so that I don't have to keep them frozen? That > would be a lot more convenient. > -Kathy > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, Amber Berglund <arberglund@> wrote: > > > > Does he notice the food when you drop it in and just ignore it? Mine > > will chase food that I drop in, but he ignores anything that floats on > > the surface mostly. He seems to prefer foods that sink. I feed mine > > omega one sinking shrimp pellets, I also feed frozen foods (brine > > shrimp, mysis shrimp, and their favorite bloodworms), not sure if your > > walmart will have frozen foods, but they are the best to get for your > > fishy. If they do not and you need to get freeze dried food instead make > > sure you rehydrate it in a little cup of water for a good 30 seconds or > > more to soak up some water before you give it to your betta, they can > > become easily constipated so it's best to feed them well hydrated foods > > just to be safe. > > I also make my own jello fish food as well, and he gets little chunks of > > it every now and then (it has mostly frozen fish/shrimp, frozen veggies, > > and some left over flake foods), I did no have liquid vitamins and such > > on hand to add to the mix this last time, they don't sell them in town > > so I have to order it. But I figure my homemade food can't be any worse > > than some of the flake foods out there ;) > > > > Amber > > > > Kathy wrote: > > > > > > > > > Thanks for the links, Steve! I'll check them out. Gosh, I need to > > > think of a name for him. Don't know what to call him. It'll come to me > > > though. > > > LOL now he's showing off and acting all macho for his own reflection. > > > They sure are fun to watch! > > > So if he doesn't take the BettaMin (I'v decided to give him a few days > > > on that and see if he takes it when he is more comfortable with me), > > > what should I buy to feed him? And does time of day make any > > > difference in how eager he is to eat? > > > -Kathy > > > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>, "Steve Szabo" <steve@> wrote: > > > > > > > > First, you are entering the wild, crazy, wonderful world of bettas. > > > Take a > > > > look here for just some of the color types you can see in bettas > > > (meaning > > > > _Betta splendens_, we'll forgo the 60 or so "wild" types of bettas). > > > Take a > > > > look at some of the more common color types here, > > > > http://www.bettatalk.com/betta_colors.htm. > > > <http://www.bettatalk.com/betta_colors.htm.> I do note a gross > > > exception on > > > > this page, and that is the pastels. Oh, well, I guess you can't get > > > > everything all at once. > > > > > > > > Then, of course, you have tail types to consider, which are listed > here: > > > > > > > > http://www.associatedcontent.com/article/433417/overview_of_betta_fish_tail_ > > > > > <http://www.associatedcontent.com/article/433417/overview_of_betta_fish_tail > _> > > > > types_and.html?cat=53 > > > > http://tinyurl.com/yku2rrp <http://tinyurl.com/yku2rrp> > > > > > > > > This will give you some reading for the weekend, and, of course, > > > there is > > > > your friend, Google, to lead you to even more information on bettas. > > > > > > > > \\Steve// > > > > > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On > > > > Behalf Of Kathy > > > > Sent: Saturday, October 31, 2009 12:01 PM > > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: New betta > > > > > > > > Thanks, Kai. > > > > There's a bit of a problem. He apparently doesn't like Tetra BettaMin > > > > flakes. He won't eat them. I'm pretty sure he's hungry cause he's > > > showing > > > > hunting behaviors, he's gotten really active and seems like he's > > > looking for > > > > something (I've seen the exact same behavior in my snake when he's > > > hungry, > > > > isnt' it weird how two animals so different can act so similar!), but > he > > > > still won't eat the BettaMin. And I won't be able to get back to > WalMart > > > > until Monday (that's when my friend is taking me to get some general > > > > shopping done), unless I can sweet talk the people who are giving me > > > a ride > > > > to church tomorrow into taking me there to pick up some better betta > > > food. > > > > And I don't want to seem greedy about rides, I probabaly wouldn't > > > ask cause > > > > I'd feel like I was taking advantage of them. But anyway, what do I > feed > > > > him instead of BettaMin? > > > > I was shocked to see so many bicolor bettas--I had thought they were > > > solid! > > > > At least they were when I was a kid. I grew up on class pets of either > > > > solid red or solid blue bettas, because we couldn't have anything in > the > > > > classroom with fur or feathers. But this guy is a mix of red and blue. > > > > There was a pink and iridescent white one (he looked like an opal) > > > that I > > > > liked a lot but he didn't look as healthy as my little guy. > > > > Anyway, advice on what to feed him would be appreciated! I can tell > he's > > > > hungry, but he seems to be a picky eater! > > > > -Kathy > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>, "kuradi8" <kuradi8@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > "Their stomachs are about the size of their eyes." What a perfect > > > way to > > > > explain it! Especially to kids! (And seniors like my Mom.) > > > > > > > > > > Enjoy your Betta. I love mine. They have so much personality! Chow > > > Mein > > > > and Sweet-and-Sour are here in my office. Of course in individual > tanks! > > > > And Kala ("Fish") is downstairs with Mom. Kala is also red and blue > and > > > > also from Walmart. Twins? :o) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Basically, as long as you're comfortable, your Betta will be too. > Keep > > > > him out of the sun and away from anything that can vary his water's > > > > temperature. > > > > > > > > > > Each of my tanks has a small potted aquatic plant. I used small > > > plastic > > > > party cups with sand and a layer of gravel on top. To clean the > > > tank, I use > > > > a length of air line hose rubber-banded to a long chopstick so I can > > > vacuum > > > > the bottom without having to stick my hand in the water. > > > > > ~Kai > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>, "Kathy" <kl_whitney@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > Ok thanks Amber. My room's pretty stable, my suitemates keep the > > > > thermostat for our suite at 76ish. And I don't argue, cause they're > all > > > > thin and have less.....insulation than I do. Some days I feel like I'm > > > > burning up from the heat in the room, but I figure if they're > > > comfortable > > > > I'd better not argue. And the only reason it feels hot to me is that > my > > > > parents kept the house at 68 all the winter's I've lived with them. > > > > > > I'll feed him in the morning. They got the fish shippment > yesterday, > > > > but I had an evening class and it snowed all afternoon so yesterday > > > would've > > > > been a really bad day to get him. So he may have gone without food for > > > > several days. Their stomachs are about the size of their eyes, > > > right? So I > > > > make sure the amount of food is about the same size as his eye if > > > you put it > > > > all together? That's a tiny pinch, but I can figure it out. > > > > > > -Kathy > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>, Amber Berglund <arberglund@> > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 73 degrees should be just fine for him, as long as your room > > > temps do > > > > > > > not flucuate more than 3 degrees through a 24 hour period. > > > > > > > Did you ask when the store fed him last, or if they fed him > > > when he > > > > > > > arrived? Most likely they did not feed him yet if you just > > > picked him > > > > up > > > > > > > after the shipment arrived. > > > > > > > If you are uncertain feed him a small meal (betta's do not eat > > > very > > > > much > > > > > > > at all, just feed him a couple of tiny pellets or a little bit > of > > > > > > > crushed flake food), if you're uncertain how much to feed just > > > start > > > > out > > > > > > > small and if he eats it in less than a few seconds you might > > > be able > > > > to > > > > > > > get away with feeding a little more. I feed my betta every > > > other day > > > > and > > > > > > > he doesn't seem to be unhealthy from it, some days I feed him > > > on his > > > > > > > normal "off day" too, so he doesn't have too many breaks in > > > between > > > > meals. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Amber > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Kathy wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Hi all, > > > > > > > > Just got back from Walmart with a new betta about an hour > > > ago. He's > > > > > > > > red and blue (will post a pic as soon as I get a camera). > > > I've been > > > > > > > > slowly getting him used to the bowl water, and just about five > > > > minutes > > > > > > > > ago I let him free in the bowl. Now he's exploring. Two > > > questions: > > > > > > > > When do I give him his first meal? AND Is 73 degrees too > > > cool for > > > > him? > > > > > > > > That's what my thermometer is reading. > > > > > > > > -Kathy > > > > > > > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 44137	From: Kathy	Date: 10/31/2009
Subject: Re: New betta

Ok, I'll get the bloodworms and then I'll do the tweezers thing only if I develop an allergy. I did get him to eat some BettaMin. I just had to put it in there when he was near the surface and paying attention to what I was doing. Should I suppliment with bloodworms by giving him two or three of those instead of the tiny pinch of BettaMin flakes? If so, how often? Oh, and his bowl is at 74 now. Did his water temp climb too fast? It was at 73 this time yesterday. So is one degree in 24 hours too much? It was a lot warmer outside today than yesterday though. So that would account for the temperature difference, since he's about 2.5 feet from a window. Don't worry, it faces northwest, never gets direct sunlight in the heat of the day, and even when it does get some sun it's filtered by trees and the houseplants, so he won't get cooked. Oh, and do I feed him every day, or do I feed him every second day? I've been told both work, but which would be better for him? -Kathy --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Steve Szabo" <steve@...> wrote: > > Kathy, > > I do not think you need to go to all that trouble, unless you start to > notice what may be symptoms of the allergy. Just don't buy any more <g>. I > just wanted to let you know that a good number of people have this problem. > > Astronomy Domine--live recording, WOW! (playing in the background, can you > hear it? <g>). Probably recorded before you were born <G>. Coming up . . . > Atom Heart Mother--20 minutes worth! > > \\Steve// > > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On > Behalf Of Kathy > Sent: Saturday, October 31, 2009 7:14 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: New betta > > Ok, thanks for letting me know. Would it be better to feed him dried > bloodworms with tweezers while wearing rubber gloves? I have both, though > the tweezers are supposed to be for shaping my eyebrows ;) and the gloves > are the kind you wash dishes or clean bathrooms with. The gloves are clean, > brand new, but the tweezers would need a washing before I used them to feed > Pisces because I've been using them to shape my eyebrows. > -Kathy > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Steve Szabo" <steve@> wrote: > > > > Kathy, > > > > Bloodworms are problematic, not from the fish's point of view, but yours. > > Many people have allergies to the bloodworms and can break out in a rash > or > > worse from them. People who have no allergies to them can become allergic > > over time. I would stay away from the freeze dried stuff. The frozen or > live > > worms do not seem to carry the same effects. > > > > You mentioned snow in an earlier post. Were you the one dreaming of a > white > > Halloween? > > > > \\Steve// > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On > > Behalf Of Kathy > > Sent: Saturday, October 31, 2009 5:49 PM > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: New betta > > > > Well, he seemed to ignore it when I put it in there. Should I try again > > when he's paying attention to the surface? Is it possible to get > bloodworms > > dehydrated and in a jar, so that I don't have to keep them frozen? That > > would be a lot more convenient. > > -Kathy > > > > > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, Amber Berglund <arberglund@> wrote: > > > > > > Does he notice the food when you drop it in and just ignore it? Mine > > > will chase food that I drop in, but he ignores anything that floats on > > > the surface mostly. He seems to prefer foods that sink. I feed mine > > > omega one sinking shrimp pellets, I also feed frozen foods (brine > > > shrimp, mysis shrimp, and their favorite bloodworms), not sure if your > > > walmart will have frozen foods, but they are the best to get for your > > > fishy. If they do not and you need to get freeze dried food instead make > > > > sure you rehydrate it in a little cup of water for a good 30 seconds or > > > more to soak up some water before you give it to your betta, they can > > > become easily constipated so it's best to feed them well hydrated foods > > > just to be safe. > > > I also make my own jello fish food as well, and he gets little chunks of > > > > it every now and then (it has mostly frozen fish/shrimp, frozen veggies, > > > > and some left over flake foods), I did no have liquid vitamins and such > > > on hand to add to the mix this last time, they don't sell them in town > > > so I have to order it. But I figure my homemade food can't be any worse > > > than some of the flake foods out there ;) > > > > > > Amber > > > > > > Kathy wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > Thanks for the links, Steve! I'll check them out. Gosh, I need to > > > > think of a name for him. Don't know what to call him. It'll come to me > > > > > though. > > > > LOL now he's showing off and acting all macho for his own reflection. > > > > They sure are fun to watch! > > > > So if he doesn't take the BettaMin (I'v decided to give him a few days > > > > > on that and see if he takes it when he is more comfortable with me), > > > > what should I buy to feed him? And does time of day make any > > > > difference in how eager he is to eat? > > > > -Kathy > > > > > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>, "Steve Szabo" <steve@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > First, you are entering the wild, crazy, wonderful world of bettas. > > > > Take a > > > > > look here for just some of the color types you can see in bettas > > > > (meaning > > > > > _Betta splendens_, we'll forgo the 60 or so "wild" types of bettas). > > > > > Take a > > > > > look at some of the more common color types here, > > > > > http://www.bettatalk.com/betta_colors.htm. > > > > <http://www.bettatalk.com/betta_colors.htm.> I do note a gross > > > > exception on > > > > > this page, and that is the pastels. Oh, well, I guess you can't get > > > > > everything all at once. > > > > > > > > > > Then, of course, you have tail types to consider, which are listed > > here: > > > > > > > > > > > > http://www.associatedcontent.com/article/433417/overview_of_betta_fish_tail_ > > > > > > > > > <http://www.associatedcontent.com/article/433417/overview_of_betta_fish_tail > > _> > > > > > types_and.html?cat=53 > > > > > http://tinyurl.com/yku2rrp <http://tinyurl.com/yku2rrp> > > > > > > > > > > This will give you some reading for the weekend, and, of course, > > > > there is > > > > > your friend, Google, to lead you to even more information on bettas. > > > > > > > > > > \\Steve// > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On > > > > > Behalf Of Kathy > > > > > Sent: Saturday, October 31, 2009 12:01 PM > > > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: New betta > > > > > > > > > > Thanks, Kai. > > > > > There's a bit of a problem. He apparently doesn't like Tetra > BettaMin > > > > > flakes. He won't eat them. I'm pretty sure he's hungry cause he's > > > > showing > > > > > hunting behaviors, he's gotten really active and seems like he's > > > > looking for > > > > > something (I've seen the exact same behavior in my snake when he's > > > > hungry, > > > > > isnt' it weird how two animals so different can act so similar!), > but > > he > > > > > still won't eat the BettaMin. And I won't be able to get back to > > WalMart > > > > > until Monday (that's when my friend is taking me to get some general > > > > > shopping done), unless I can sweet talk the people who are giving me > > > > > a ride > > > > > to church tomorrow into taking me there to pick up some better betta > > > > > food. > > > > > And I don't want to seem greedy about rides, I probabaly wouldn't > > > > ask cause > > > > > I'd feel like I was taking advantage of them. But anyway, what do I > > feed > > > > > him instead of BettaMin? > > > > > I was shocked to see so many bicolor bettas--I had thought they were > > > > > solid! > > > > > At least they were when I was a kid. I grew up on class pets of > either > > > > > solid red or solid blue bettas, because we couldn't have anything in > > the > > > > > classroom with fur or feathers. But this guy is a mix of red and > blue. > > > > > There was a pink and iridescent white one (he looked like an opal) > > > > that I > > > > > liked a lot but he didn't look as healthy as my little guy. > > > > > Anyway, advice on what to feed him would be appreciated! I can tell > > he's > > > > > hungry, but he seems to be a picky eater! > > > > > -Kathy > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>, "kuradi8" <kuradi8@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > "Their stomachs are about the size of their eyes." What a perfect > > > > way to > > > > > explain it! Especially to kids! (And seniors like my Mom.) > > > > > > > > > > > > Enjoy your Betta. I love mine. They have so much personality! Chow > > > > > Mein > > > > > and Sweet-and-Sour are here in my office. Of course in individual > > tanks! > > > > > And Kala ("Fish") is downstairs with Mom. Kala is also red and blue > > and > > > > > also from Walmart. Twins? :o) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Basically, as long as you're comfortable, your Betta will be too. > > Keep > > > > > him out of the sun and away from anything that can vary his water's > > > > > temperature. > > > > > > > > > > > > Each of my tanks has a small potted aquatic plant. I used small > > > > plastic > > > > > party cups with sand and a layer of gravel on top. To clean the > > > > tank, I use > > > > > a length of air line hose rubber-banded to a long chopstick so I can > > > > > vacuum > > > > > the bottom without having to stick my hand in the water. > > > > > > ~Kai > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>, "Kathy" <kl_whitney@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Ok thanks Amber. My room's pretty stable, my suitemates keep the > > > > > thermostat for our suite at 76ish. And I don't argue, cause they're > > all > > > > > thin and have less.....insulation than I do. Some days I feel like > I'm > > > > > burning up from the heat in the room, but I figure if they're > > > > comfortable > > > > > I'd better not argue. And the only reason it feels hot to me is that > > my > > > > > parents kept the house at 68 all the winter's I've lived with them. > > > > > > > I'll feed him in the morning. They got the fish shippment > > yesterday, > > > > > but I had an evening class and it snowed all afternoon so yesterday > > > > would've > > > > > been a really bad day to get him. So he may have gone without food > for > > > > > several days. Their stomachs are about the size of their eyes, > > > > right? So I > > > > > make sure the amount of food is about the same size as his eye if > > > > you put it > > > > > all together? That's a tiny pinch, but I can figure it out. > > > > > > > -Kathy > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>, Amber Berglund <arberglund@> > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 73 degrees should be just fine for him, as long as your room > > > > temps do > > > > > > > > not flucuate more than 3 degrees through a 24 hour period. > > > > > > > > Did you ask when the store fed him last, or if they fed him > > > > when he > > > > > > > > arrived? Most likely they did not feed him yet if you just > > > > picked him > > > > > up > > > > > > > > after the shipment arrived. > > > > > > > > If you are uncertain feed him a small meal (betta's do not eat > > > > > very > > > > > much > > > > > > > > at all, just feed him a couple of tiny pellets or a little bit > > of > > > > > > > > crushed flake food), if you're uncertain how much to feed just > > > > > start > > > > > out > > > > > > > > small and if he eats it in less than a few seconds you might > > > > be able > > > > > to > > > > > > > > get away with feeding a little more. I feed my betta every > > > > other day > > > > > and > > > > > > > > he doesn't seem to be unhealthy from it, some days I feed him > > > > on his > > > > > > > > normal "off day" too, so he doesn't have too many breaks in > > > > between > > > > > meals. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Amber > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Kathy wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Hi all, > > > > > > > > > Just got back from Walmart with a new betta about an hour > > > > ago. He's > > > > > > > > > red and blue (will post a pic as soon as I get a camera). > > > > I've been > > > > > > > > > slowly getting him used to the bowl water, and just about > five > > > > > minutes > > > > > > > > > ago I let him free in the bowl. Now he's exploring. Two > > > > questions: > > > > > > > > > When do I give him his first meal? AND Is 73 degrees too > > > > cool for > > > > > him? > > > > > > > > > That's what my thermometer is reading. > > > > > > > > > -Kathy > > > > > > > > > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 44138	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 10/31/2009
Subject: Re: New betta

A ride or fall of 1° per 24 hour period is just fine, and nothing to worry about. Do be sure that his bowl is covered. This will serve two purposes. First is that should he be so inclined, he will not be able to jump out, and, with a solid cover, it will created a highly humid air space above the water which is better for him when he comes to the surface to take a breath of fresh air. I thought you already had the bloodworms. If you don't, I'd not purchase the freeze dried stuff, but go with a frozen product. It will be far superior to the freeze dried stuff, and you do not need to fear an allergic reaction with it. A small piece can be broken off to feed him a couple or three times a week. I'd feed every day. Keep the diet varied, so he has a chance to hopefully get a fully nutritious diet. I know it is hard for just one fish, but try to do so anyhow. I also remember how it is to be a, relatively, broke college student. I say relatively, because I knew people who had less to spend than I did. \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Kathy Sent: Saturday, October 31, 2009 9:38 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: New betta Ok, I'll get the bloodworms and then I'll do the tweezers thing only if I develop an allergy. I did get him to eat some BettaMin. I just had to put it in there when he was near the surface and paying attention to what I was doing. Should I suppliment with bloodworms by giving him two or three of those instead of the tiny pinch of BettaMin flakes? If so, how often? Oh, and his bowl is at 74 now. Did his water temp climb too fast? It was at 73 this time yesterday. So is one degree in 24 hours too much? It was a lot warmer outside today than yesterday though. So that would account for the temperature difference, since he's about 2.5 feet from a window. Don't worry, it faces northwest, never gets direct sunlight in the heat of the day, and even when it does get some sun it's filtered by trees and the houseplants, so he won't get cooked. Oh, and do I feed him every day, or do I feed him every second day? I've been told both work, but which would be better for him? -Kathy --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Steve Szabo" <steve@...> wrote: > > Kathy, > > I do not think you need to go to all that trouble, unless you start to > notice what may be symptoms of the allergy. Just don't buy any more <g>. I > just wanted to let you know that a good number of people have this problem. > > Astronomy Domine--live recording, WOW! (playing in the background, can you > hear it? <g>). Probably recorded before you were born <G>. Coming up . . . > Atom Heart Mother--20 minutes worth! > > \\Steve// > > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On > Behalf Of Kathy > Sent: Saturday, October 31, 2009 7:14 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: New betta > > Ok, thanks for letting me know. Would it be better to feed him dried > bloodworms with tweezers while wearing rubber gloves? I have both, though > the tweezers are supposed to be for shaping my eyebrows ;) and the gloves > are the kind you wash dishes or clean bathrooms with. The gloves are clean, > brand new, but the tweezers would need a washing before I used them to feed > Pisces because I've been using them to shape my eyebrows. > -Kathy > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Steve Szabo" <steve@> wrote: > > > > Kathy, > > > > Bloodworms are problematic, not from the fish's point of view, but yours. > > Many people have allergies to the bloodworms and can break out in a rash > or > > worse from them. People who have no allergies to them can become allergic > > over time. I would stay away from the freeze dried stuff. The frozen or > live > > worms do not seem to carry the same effects. > > > > You mentioned snow in an earlier post. Were you the one dreaming of a > white > > Halloween? > > > > \\Steve// > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On > > Behalf Of Kathy > > Sent: Saturday, October 31, 2009 5:49 PM > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: New betta > > > > Well, he seemed to ignore it when I put it in there. Should I try again > > when he's paying attention to the surface? Is it possible to get > bloodworms > > dehydrated and in a jar, so that I don't have to keep them frozen? That > > would be a lot more convenient. > > -Kathy > > > > > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, Amber Berglund <arberglund@> wrote: > > > > > > Does he notice the food when you drop it in and just ignore it? Mine > > > will chase food that I drop in, but he ignores anything that floats on > > > the surface mostly. He seems to prefer foods that sink. I feed mine > > > omega one sinking shrimp pellets, I also feed frozen foods (brine > > > shrimp, mysis shrimp, and their favorite bloodworms), not sure if your > > > walmart will have frozen foods, but they are the best to get for your > > > fishy. If they do not and you need to get freeze dried food instead make > > > > sure you rehydrate it in a little cup of water for a good 30 seconds or > > > more to soak up some water before you give it to your betta, they can > > > become easily constipated so it's best to feed them well hydrated foods > > > just to be safe. > > > I also make my own jello fish food as well, and he gets little chunks of > > > > it every now and then (it has mostly frozen fish/shrimp, frozen veggies, > > > > and some left over flake foods), I did no have liquid vitamins and such > > > on hand to add to the mix this last time, they don't sell them in town > > > so I have to order it. But I figure my homemade food can't be any worse > > > than some of the flake foods out there ;) > > > > > > Amber > > > > > > Kathy wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > Thanks for the links, Steve! I'll check them out. Gosh, I need to > > > > think of a name for him. Don't know what to call him. It'll come to me > > > > > though. > > > > LOL now he's showing off and acting all macho for his own reflection. > > > > They sure are fun to watch! > > > > So if he doesn't take the BettaMin (I'v decided to give him a few days > > > > > on that and see if he takes it when he is more comfortable with me), > > > > what should I buy to feed him? And does time of day make any > > > > difference in how eager he is to eat? > > > > -Kathy > > > > > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>, "Steve Szabo" <steve@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > First, you are entering the wild, crazy, wonderful world of bettas. > > > > Take a > > > > > look here for just some of the color types you can see in bettas > > > > (meaning > > > > > _Betta splendens_, we'll forgo the 60 or so "wild" types of bettas). > > > > > Take a > > > > > look at some of the more common color types here, > > > > > http://www.bettatalk.com/betta_colors.htm. > > > > <http://www.bettatalk.com/betta_colors.htm.> I do note a gross > > > > exception on > > > > > this page, and that is the pastels. Oh, well, I guess you can't get > > > > > everything all at once. > > > > > > > > > > Then, of course, you have tail types to consider, which are listed > > here: > > > > > > > > > > > > http://www.associatedcontent.com/article/433417/overview_of_betta_fish_tail_ > > > > > > > > > <http://www.associatedcontent.com/article/433417/overview_of_betta_fish_tail > > _> > > > > > types_and.html?cat=53 > > > > > http://tinyurl.com/yku2rrp <http://tinyurl.com/yku2rrp> > > > > > > > > > > This will give you some reading for the weekend, and, of course, > > > > there is > > > > > your friend, Google, to lead you to even more information on bettas. > > > > > > > > > > \\Steve// > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On > > > > > Behalf Of Kathy > > > > > Sent: Saturday, October 31, 2009 12:01 PM > > > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: New betta > > > > > > > > > > Thanks, Kai. > > > > > There's a bit of a problem. He apparently doesn't like Tetra > BettaMin > > > > > flakes. He won't eat them. I'm pretty sure he's hungry cause he's > > > > showing > > > > > hunting behaviors, he's gotten really active and seems like he's > > > > looking for > > > > > something (I've seen the exact same behavior in my snake when he's > > > > hungry, > > > > > isnt' it weird how two animals so different can act so similar!), > but > > he > > > > > still won't eat the BettaMin. And I won't be able to get back to > > WalMart > > > > > until Monday (that's when my friend is taking me to get some general > > > > > shopping done), unless I can sweet talk the people who are giving me > > > > > a ride > > > > > to church tomorrow into taking me there to pick up some better betta > > > > > food. > > > > > And I don't want to seem greedy about rides, I probabaly wouldn't > > > > ask cause > > > > > I'd feel like I was taking advantage of them. But anyway, what do I > > feed > > > > > him instead of BettaMin? > > > > > I was shocked to see so many bicolor bettas--I had thought they were > > > > > solid! > > > > > At least they were when I was a kid. I grew up on class pets of > either > > > > > solid red or solid blue bettas, because we couldn't have anything in > > the > > > > > classroom with fur or feathers. But this guy is a mix of red and > blue. > > > > > There was a pink and iridescent white one (he looked like an opal) > > > > that I > > > > > liked a lot but he didn't look as healthy as my little guy. > > > > > Anyway, advice on what to feed him would be appreciated! I can tell > > he's > > > > > hungry, but he seems to be a picky eater! > > > > > -Kathy > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>, "kuradi8" <kuradi8@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > "Their stomachs are about the size of their eyes." What a perfect > > > > way to > > > > > explain it! Especially to kids! (And seniors like my Mom.) > > > > > > > > > > > > Enjoy your Betta. I love mine. They have so much personality! Chow > > > > > Mein > > > > > and Sweet-and-Sour are here in my office. Of course in individual > > tanks! > > > > > And Kala ("Fish") is downstairs with Mom. Kala is also red and blue > > and > > > > > also from Walmart. Twins? :o) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Basically, as long as you're comfortable, your Betta will be too. > > Keep > > > > > him out of the sun and away from anything that can vary his water's > > > > > temperature. > > > > > > > > > > > > Each of my tanks has a small potted aquatic plant. I used small > > > > plastic > > > > > party cups with sand and a layer of gravel on top. To clean the > > > > tank, I use > > > > > a length of air line hose rubber-banded to a long chopstick so I can > > > > > vacuum > > > > > the bottom without having to stick my hand in the water. > > > > > > ~Kai > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>, "Kathy" <kl_whitney@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Ok thanks Amber. My room's pretty stable, my suitemates keep the > > > > > thermostat for our suite at 76ish. And I don't argue, cause they're > > all > > > > > thin and have less.....insulation than I do. Some days I feel like > I'm > > > > > burning up from the heat in the room, but I figure if they're > > > > comfortable > > > > > I'd better not argue. And the only reason it feels hot to me is that > > my > > > > > parents kept the house at 68 all the winter's I've lived with them. > > > > > > > I'll feed him in the morning. They got the fish shippment > > yesterday, > > > > > but I had an evening class and it snowed all afternoon so yesterday > > > > would've > > > > > been a really bad day to get him. So he may have gone without food > for > > > > > several days. Their stomachs are about the size of their eyes, > > > > right? So I > > > > > make sure the amount of food is about the same size as his eye if > > > > you put it > > > > > all together? That's a tiny pinch, but I can figure it out. > > > > > > > -Kathy > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>, Amber Berglund <arberglund@> > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 73 degrees should be just fine for him, as long as your room > > > > temps do > > > > > > > > not flucuate more than 3 degrees through a 24 hour period. > > > > > > > > Did you ask when the store fed him last, or if they fed him > > > > when he > > > > > > > > arrived? Most likely they did not feed him yet if you just > > > > picked him > > > > > up > > > > > > > > after the shipment arrived. > > > > > > > > If you are uncertain feed him a small meal (betta's do not eat > > > > > very > > > > > much > > > > > > > > at all, just feed him a couple of tiny pellets or a little bit > > of > > > > > > > > crushed flake food), if you're uncertain how much to feed just > > > > > start > > > > > out > > > > > > > > small and if he eats it in less than a few seconds you might > > > > be able > > > > > to > > > > > > > > get away with feeding a little more. I feed my betta every > > > > other day > > > > > and > > > > > > > > he doesn't seem to be unhealthy from it, some days I feed him > > > > on his > > > > > > > > normal "off day" too, so he doesn't have too many breaks in > > > > between > > > > > meals. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Amber > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Kathy wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Hi all, > > > > > > > > > Just got back from Walmart with a new betta about an hour > > > > ago. He's > > > > > > > > > red and blue (will post a pic as soon as I get a camera). > > > > I've been > > > > > > > > > slowly getting him used to the bowl water, and just about > five > > > > > minutes > > > > > > > > > ago I let him free in the bowl. Now he's exploring. Two > > > > questions: > > > > > > > > > When do I give him his first meal? AND Is 73 degrees too > > > > cool for > > > > > him? > > > > > > > > > That's what my thermometer is reading. > > > > > > > > > -Kathy > > > > > > > > > > ------------------------------------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the home page. Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com to receive the digest, which includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com for the No E-Mail option where you will still be able to read messages on the group and post replies. Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com to receive individual e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 44139	From: Kathy	Date: 10/31/2009
Subject: Re: New betta

Ok, I guess I can fit some frozen bloodworms in my baby fridge. Really the only thing I have in the freezer is an ice cube tray. And that's all that'll fit besides a single TV dinner. But I don't really eat frozen dinners, too expensive, so it can be a spot for Pisces to keep his frozen dinners. ;) I'll get him some bloodworms next time I'm at a real pet store, because I doubt Walmart will have them frozen rather than freeze dried. And I'll give them to him two to three times a week instead of his flakes. I've got his bowl covered with a styrofoam plate. LOL that was the only thing I could find that would allow there to be a slight air circulation space at the edge but still have it covered enough to reduce evaporation. And I'm hoping to get live plants ASAP, I couldn't find any when I went to buy them so I just got the softest plastic one I could find. How do I avoid freaking Pisces out when I change out his fake plant for real ones? Do I need to move him to a seperate container? -Kathy --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Steve Szabo" <steve@...> wrote: > > A ride or fall of 1° per 24 hour period is just fine, and nothing to worry > about. Do be sure that his bowl is covered. This will serve two purposes. > First is that should he be so inclined, he will not be able to jump out, > and, with a solid cover, it will created a highly humid air space above the > water which is better for him when he comes to the surface to take a breath > of fresh air. > > I thought you already had the bloodworms. If you don't, I'd not purchase the > freeze dried stuff, but go with a frozen product. It will be far superior to > the freeze dried stuff, and you do not need to fear an allergic reaction > with it. A small piece can be broken off to feed him a couple or three times > a week. I'd feed every day. Keep the diet varied, so he has a chance to > hopefully get a fully nutritious diet. I know it is hard for just one fish, > but try to do so anyhow. I also remember how it is to be a, relatively, > broke college student. I say relatively, because I knew people who had less > to spend than I did. > > \\Steve// > > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On > Behalf Of Kathy > Sent: Saturday, October 31, 2009 9:38 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: New betta > > Ok, I'll get the bloodworms and then I'll do the tweezers thing only if I > develop an allergy. I did get him to eat some BettaMin. I just had to put > it in there when he was near the surface and paying attention to what I was > doing. Should I suppliment with bloodworms by giving him two or three of > those instead of the tiny pinch of BettaMin flakes? If so, how often? > Oh, and his bowl is at 74 now. Did his water temp climb too fast? It was > at 73 this time yesterday. So is one degree in 24 hours too much? It was a > lot warmer outside today than yesterday though. So that would account for > the temperature difference, since he's about 2.5 feet from a window. Don't > worry, it faces northwest, never gets direct sunlight in the heat of the > day, and even when it does get some sun it's filtered by trees and the > houseplants, so he won't get cooked. > Oh, and do I feed him every day, or do I feed him every second day? I've > been told both work, but which would be better for him? > -Kathy >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 44140	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 10/31/2009
Subject: Re: New betta

Just make the change. If he freaks, he'll get over it pretty quick, maybe to the point of nibbling on you to see if you are a food source <g>. \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Kathy Sent: Saturday, October 31, 2009 10:38 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: New betta Ok, I guess I can fit some frozen bloodworms in my baby fridge. Really the only thing I have in the freezer is an ice cube tray. And that's all that'll fit besides a single TV dinner. But I don't really eat frozen dinners, too expensive, so it can be a spot for Pisces to keep his frozen dinners. ;) I'll get him some bloodworms next time I'm at a real pet store, because I doubt Walmart will have them frozen rather than freeze dried. And I'll give them to him two to three times a week instead of his flakes. I've got his bowl covered with a styrofoam plate. LOL that was the only thing I could find that would allow there to be a slight air circulation space at the edge but still have it covered enough to reduce evaporation. And I'm hoping to get live plants ASAP, I couldn't find any when I went to buy them so I just got the softest plastic one I could find. How do I avoid freaking Pisces out when I change out his fake plant for real ones? Do I need to move him to a seperate container? -Kathy --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Steve Szabo" <steve@...> wrote: > > A ride or fall of 1° per 24 hour period is just fine, and nothing to worry > about. Do be sure that his bowl is covered. This will serve two purposes. > First is that should he be so inclined, he will not be able to jump out, > and, with a solid cover, it will created a highly humid air space above the > water which is better for him when he comes to the surface to take a breath > of fresh air. > > I thought you already had the bloodworms. If you don't, I'd not purchase the > freeze dried stuff, but go with a frozen product. It will be far superior to > the freeze dried stuff, and you do not need to fear an allergic reaction > with it. A small piece can be broken off to feed him a couple or three times > a week. I'd feed every day. Keep the diet varied, so he has a chance to > hopefully get a fully nutritious diet. I know it is hard for just one fish, > but try to do so anyhow. I also remember how it is to be a, relatively, > broke college student. I say relatively, because I knew people who had less > to spend than I did. > > \\Steve// > > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On > Behalf Of Kathy > Sent: Saturday, October 31, 2009 9:38 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: New betta > > Ok, I'll get the bloodworms and then I'll do the tweezers thing only if I > develop an allergy. I did get him to eat some BettaMin. I just had to put > it in there when he was near the surface and paying attention to what I was > doing. Should I suppliment with bloodworms by giving him two or three of > those instead of the tiny pinch of BettaMin flakes? If so, how often? > Oh, and his bowl is at 74 now. Did his water temp climb too fast? It was > at 73 this time yesterday. So is one degree in 24 hours too much? It was a > lot warmer outside today than yesterday though. So that would account for > the temperature difference, since he's about 2.5 feet from a window. Don't > worry, it faces northwest, never gets direct sunlight in the heat of the > day, and even when it does get some sun it's filtered by trees and the > houseplants, so he won't get cooked. > Oh, and do I feed him every day, or do I feed him every second day? I've > been told both work, but which would be better for him? > -Kathy > ------------------------------------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the home page. Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com to receive the digest, which includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com for the No E-Mail option where you will still be able to read messages on the group and post replies. Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com to receive individual e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 44141	From: Kathy	Date: 10/31/2009
Subject: Re: New betta

LOL. I'll do that. -Kathy --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Steve Szabo" <steve@...> wrote: > > Just make the change. If he freaks, he'll get over it pretty quick, maybe to > the point of nibbling on you to see if you are a food source <g>. > > \\Steve// > > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On > Behalf Of Kathy > Sent: Saturday, October 31, 2009 10:38 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: New betta > > Ok, I guess I can fit some frozen bloodworms in my baby fridge. Really the > only thing I have in the freezer is an ice cube tray. And that's all > that'll fit besides a single TV dinner. But I don't really eat frozen > dinners, too expensive, so it can be a spot for Pisces to keep his frozen > dinners. ;) I'll get him some bloodworms next time I'm at a real pet > store, because I doubt Walmart will have them frozen rather than freeze > dried. And I'll give them to him two to three times a week instead of his > flakes. > I've got his bowl covered with a styrofoam plate. LOL that was the only > thing I could find that would allow there to be a slight air circulation > space at the edge but still have it covered enough to reduce evaporation. > And I'm hoping to get live plants ASAP, I couldn't find any when I went to > buy them so I just got the softest plastic one I could find. How do I avoid > freaking Pisces out when I change out his fake plant for real ones? Do I > need to move him to a seperate container? > -Kathy > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Steve Szabo" <steve@> wrote: > > > > A ride or fall of 1° per 24 hour period is just fine, and nothing to worry > > about. Do be sure that his bowl is covered. This will serve two purposes. > > First is that should he be so inclined, he will not be able to jump out, > > and, with a solid cover, it will created a highly humid air space above > the > > water which is better for him when he comes to the surface to take a > breath > > of fresh air. > > > > I thought you already had the bloodworms. If you don't, I'd not purchase > the > > freeze dried stuff, but go with a frozen product. It will be far superior > to > > the freeze dried stuff, and you do not need to fear an allergic reaction > > with it. A small piece can be broken off to feed him a couple or three > times > > a week. I'd feed every day. Keep the diet varied, so he has a chance to > > hopefully get a fully nutritious diet. I know it is hard for just one > fish, > > but try to do so anyhow. I also remember how it is to be a, relatively, > > broke college student. I say relatively, because I knew people who had > less > > to spend than I did. > > > > \\Steve// > > > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 44142	From: Dora Smith	Date: 11/1/2009
Subject: Re: He ate! Re: New betta

Mine talks back. In English. He especially discusses his food. Yours, Dora Smith Austin, TX tiggernut24@... ----- Original Message ----- From: "Amber Berglund" <arberglund@...> To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Saturday, October 31, 2009 5:12 PM Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] He ate! Re: New betta >I talk to mine on occasion, so I think that's normal, but if you start > expecting an answer that's not so normal ;) LOL. > > Amber > > Kathy wrote: >> >> >> So I put in another itty bitty pinch of food when he was paying >> attention. And he ate his fill. I think it's just a matter of giving >> him his food when he's near the surface and paying attention to what >> I'm doing. Otherwise he doesn't notice and he won't eat. I'll just >> make sure he's paying attention next time I try to feed him. Guess he >> has to have the right conditions to eat. >> Kinda like my snake, Serpi (short for Serpenticulus). Serpi is so >> spoiled that he is never sure what to do about eating in a feeding >> cage. He's used to being hand fed (he sits on my lap and I hand the >> mice to him), so he just gets this confused look on his face when I'm >> pressed for time and put him in the feeding cage with his prekilled mice. >> BTW, the betta has a name now. I've decided to call him Pisces. I >> wasn't sure at first, it was a name I was considering, but now it just >> seems right for him. Is it weird that I talk to him on occasion? Does >> anyone else here talk to their fish? >> -Kathy >> >> --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com >> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>, "Dora Smith" <tiggernut24@...> >> wrote: >> > >> > Yup. Blood worms, about three of them. But I understand it isn't >> good to >> > feed them to them constantly. Nevertheless that's all my housemate ever >> > fed hers - every other day. >> > >> > They're really midge larva or something. You can also feed them frozen >> > brine shrimp, but they aren't as nutritious. >> > >> > Yours, >> > Dora Smith >> > Austin, TX >> > tiggernut24@... >> > ----- Original Message ----- >> > From: "Kathy" <kl_whitney@...> >> > To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com >> > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>> >> > Sent: Saturday, October 31, 2009 10:03 AM >> > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: New betta >> > >> > >> > Thanks Dora. I don't think Walmart carries either brand. And there's >> > already been two snowstorms, so I can't give him mosquito larvae. Is >> there >> > some sort of freeze dried insect I can feed him? >> > -Kathy >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com >> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>, "Dora Smith" <tiggernut24@> >> wrote: >> > > >> > > I've found mine does best on two to three Ocean Nutrition Atison's >> betta >> > > food two to three times a day - or equivalent in flake. He also gets >> > > formula one flakes - the red kind. He'll eat forumula two - the green >> > > ones - less happily if he's starving. And Spectrum small fish >> > > pellets. >> > > Those are all relatively high quality foods. And every once in >> awhile I >> > > give him a little HBH Betta Colorbright, but I don't think that's >> as high >> > > quality a food. >> > > >> > > He's supposed to get more frozen/ fresh food than he does. He LOVES >> > > mo'quito larbas, if there are still any around where you live. Google >> > > image >> > > them; you can scoop a fish net over standing water, and easily >> pick them >> > > off >> > > the surface; tehy're good sized and easy to recognize and catch. >> > > >> > > Yours, >> > > Dora Smith >> > > Austin, TX >> > > tiggernut24@ >> > > ----- Original Message ----- >> > > From: "Kathy" <kl_whitney@> >> > > To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com >> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>> >> > > Sent: Saturday, October 31, 2009 12:40 AM >> > > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: New betta >> > > >> > > >> > > Ok thanks Amber. My room's pretty stable, my suitemates keep the >> > > thermostat >> > > for our suite at 76ish. And I don't argue, cause they're all thin and >> > > have >> > > less.....insulation than I do. Some days I feel like I'm burning >> up from >> > > the heat in the room, but I figure if they're comfortable I'd >> better not >> > > argue. And the only reason it feels hot to me is that my parents >> kept the >> > > house at 68 all the winter's I've lived with them. >> > > I'll feed him in the morning. They got the fish shippment >> yesterday, but >> > > I >> > > had an evening class and it snowed all afternoon so yesterday >> would've >> > > been >> > > a really bad day to get him. So he may have gone without food for >> several >> > > days. Their stomachs are about the size of their eyes, right? So I >> make >> > > sure the amount of food is about the same size as his eye if you >> put it >> > > all >> > > together? That's a tiny pinch, but I can figure it out. >> > > -Kathy >> > > >> > > >> > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com >> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>, Amber Berglund <arberglund@> >> wrote: >> > > > >> > > > 73 degrees should be just fine for him, as long as your room >> temps do >> > > > not flucuate more than 3 degrees through a 24 hour period. >> > > > Did you ask when the store fed him last, or if they fed him when he >> > > > arrived? Most likely they did not feed him yet if you just >> picked him up >> > > > after the shipment arrived. >> > > > If you are uncertain feed him a small meal (betta's do not eat >> very much >> > > > at all, just feed him a couple of tiny pellets or a little bit of >> > > > crushed flake food), if you're uncertain how much to feed just >> start out >> > > > small and if he eats it in less than a few seconds you might be >> able to >> > > > get away with feeding a little more. I feed my betta every other >> day and >> > > > he doesn't seem to be unhealthy from it, some days I feed him on >> > > > his >> > > > normal "off day" too, so he doesn't have too many breaks in between >> > > > meals. >> > > > >> > > > Amber >> > > > >> > > > Kathy wrote: >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > Hi all, >> > > > > Just got back from Walmart with a new betta about an hour ago. >> He's >> > > > > red and blue (will post a pic as soon as I get a camera). I've >> been >> > > > > slowly getting him used to the bowl water, and just about five >> minutes >> > > > > ago I let him free in the bowl. Now he's exploring. Two >> > > > > questions: >> > > > > When do I give him his first meal? AND Is 73 degrees too cool >> for him? >> > > > > That's what my thermometer is reading. >> > > > > -Kathy >> > > > > >> > >> >> > > > ------------------------------------ > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. > ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> > PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to > the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the > SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- > <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. > > If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of unsubscribing, you > can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the > home page. > > Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com to receive the digest, which > includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email > > Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com for the No E-Mail option where > you will still be able to read messages on the group and post replies. > > Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com to receive individual > e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links > > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 44143	From: Dora Smith	Date: 11/1/2009
Subject: Re: New betta

I thaw the bloodworms, and put in a little water (dechlorinated, even from the bowl), and feed with a plastic pipette. Unfortunately you probably have to send away to a home science supply place for some pipettes, unless you're in a science class and the lab will let you have a couple, but they're likley to only have glass ones. Pipettes come in handy for measuring out your dechlorinators and such as well. You want a relatively large plastic pipette - 3 ml - with part of an end snipped off - for feeding bloodworms and other animules. Yours, Dora Smith Austin, TX tiggernut24@... ----- Original Message ----- From: "Kathy" <kl_whitney@...> To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Saturday, October 31, 2009 5:13 PM Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: New betta Ok, thanks for letting me know. Would it be better to feed him dried bloodworms with tweezers while wearing rubber gloves? I have both, though the tweezers are supposed to be for shaping my eyebrows ;) and the gloves are the kind you wash dishes or clean bathrooms with. The gloves are clean, brand new, but the tweezers would need a washing before I used them to feed Pisces because I've been using them to shape my eyebrows. -Kathy --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Steve Szabo" <steve@...> wrote: > > Kathy, > > Bloodworms are problematic, not from the fish's point of view, but yours. > Many people have allergies to the bloodworms and can break out in a rash > or > worse from them. People who have no allergies to them can become allergic > over time. I would stay away from the freeze dried stuff. The frozen or > live > worms do not seem to carry the same effects. > > You mentioned snow in an earlier post. Were you the one dreaming of a > white > Halloween? > > \\Steve// > > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On > Behalf Of Kathy > Sent: Saturday, October 31, 2009 5:49 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: New betta > > Well, he seemed to ignore it when I put it in there. Should I try again > when he's paying attention to the surface? Is it possible to get > bloodworms > dehydrated and in a jar, so that I don't have to keep them frozen? That > would be a lot more convenient. > -Kathy > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, Amber Berglund <arberglund@> wrote: > > > > Does he notice the food when you drop it in and just ignore it? Mine > > will chase food that I drop in, but he ignores anything that floats on > > the surface mostly. He seems to prefer foods that sink. I feed mine > > omega one sinking shrimp pellets, I also feed frozen foods (brine > > shrimp, mysis shrimp, and their favorite bloodworms), not sure if your > > walmart will have frozen foods, but they are the best to get for your > > fishy. If they do not and you need to get freeze dried food instead make > > sure you rehydrate it in a little cup of water for a good 30 seconds or > > more to soak up some water before you give it to your betta, they can > > become easily constipated so it's best to feed them well hydrated foods > > just to be safe. > > I also make my own jello fish food as well, and he gets little chunks of > > it every now and then (it has mostly frozen fish/shrimp, frozen veggies, > > and some left over flake foods), I did no have liquid vitamins and such > > on hand to add to the mix this last time, they don't sell them in town > > so I have to order it. But I figure my homemade food can't be any worse > > than some of the flake foods out there ;) > > > > Amber > > > > Kathy wrote: > > > > > > > > > Thanks for the links, Steve! I'll check them out. Gosh, I need to > > > think of a name for him. Don't know what to call him. It'll come to me > > > though. > > > LOL now he's showing off and acting all macho for his own reflection. > > > They sure are fun to watch! > > > So if he doesn't take the BettaMin (I'v decided to give him a few days > > > on that and see if he takes it when he is more comfortable with me), > > > what should I buy to feed him? And does time of day make any > > > difference in how eager he is to eat? > > > -Kathy > > > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>, "Steve Szabo" <steve@> wrote: > > > > > > > > First, you are entering the wild, crazy, wonderful world of bettas. > > > Take a > > > > look here for just some of the color types you can see in bettas > > > (meaning > > > > _Betta splendens_, we'll forgo the 60 or so "wild" types of bettas). > > > Take a > > > > look at some of the more common color types here, > > > > http://www.bettatalk.com/betta_colors.htm. > > > <http://www.bettatalk.com/betta_colors.htm.> I do note a gross > > > exception on > > > > this page, and that is the pastels. Oh, well, I guess you can't get > > > > everything all at once. > > > > > > > > Then, of course, you have tail types to consider, which are listed > here: > > > > > > > > http://www.associatedcontent.com/article/433417/overview_of_betta_fish_tail_ > > > > > <http://www.associatedcontent.com/article/433417/overview_of_betta_fish_tail > _> > > > > types_and.html?cat=53 > > > > http://tinyurl.com/yku2rrp <http://tinyurl.com/yku2rrp> > > > > > > > > This will give you some reading for the weekend, and, of course, > > > there is > > > > your friend, Google, to lead you to even more information on bettas. > > > > > > > > \\Steve// > > > > > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On > > > > Behalf Of Kathy > > > > Sent: Saturday, October 31, 2009 12:01 PM > > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: New betta > > > > > > > > Thanks, Kai. > > > > There's a bit of a problem. He apparently doesn't like Tetra > > > > BettaMin > > > > flakes. He won't eat them. I'm pretty sure he's hungry cause he's > > > showing > > > > hunting behaviors, he's gotten really active and seems like he's > > > looking for > > > > something (I've seen the exact same behavior in my snake when he's > > > hungry, > > > > isnt' it weird how two animals so different can act so similar!), > > > > but > he > > > > still won't eat the BettaMin. And I won't be able to get back to > WalMart > > > > until Monday (that's when my friend is taking me to get some general > > > > shopping done), unless I can sweet talk the people who are giving me > > > a ride > > > > to church tomorrow into taking me there to pick up some better betta > > > food. > > > > And I don't want to seem greedy about rides, I probabaly wouldn't > > > ask cause > > > > I'd feel like I was taking advantage of them. But anyway, what do I > feed > > > > him instead of BettaMin? > > > > I was shocked to see so many bicolor bettas--I had thought they were > > > solid! > > > > At least they were when I was a kid. I grew up on class pets of > > > > either > > > > solid red or solid blue bettas, because we couldn't have anything in > the > > > > classroom with fur or feathers. But this guy is a mix of red and > > > > blue. > > > > There was a pink and iridescent white one (he looked like an opal) > > > that I > > > > liked a lot but he didn't look as healthy as my little guy. > > > > Anyway, advice on what to feed him would be appreciated! I can tell > he's > > > > hungry, but he seems to be a picky eater! > > > > -Kathy > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>, "kuradi8" <kuradi8@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > "Their stomachs are about the size of their eyes." What a perfect > > > way to > > > > explain it! Especially to kids! (And seniors like my Mom.) > > > > > > > > > > Enjoy your Betta. I love mine. They have so much personality! Chow > > > Mein > > > > and Sweet-and-Sour are here in my office. Of course in individual > tanks! > > > > And Kala ("Fish") is downstairs with Mom. Kala is also red and blue > and > > > > also from Walmart. Twins? :o) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Basically, as long as you're comfortable, your Betta will be too. > Keep > > > > him out of the sun and away from anything that can vary his water's > > > > temperature. > > > > > > > > > > Each of my tanks has a small potted aquatic plant. I used small > > > plastic > > > > party cups with sand and a layer of gravel on top. To clean the > > > tank, I use > > > > a length of air line hose rubber-banded to a long chopstick so I can > > > vacuum > > > > the bottom without having to stick my hand in the water. > > > > > ~Kai > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>, "Kathy" <kl_whitney@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > Ok thanks Amber. My room's pretty stable, my suitemates keep the > > > > thermostat for our suite at 76ish. And I don't argue, cause they're > all > > > > thin and have less.....insulation than I do. Some days I feel like > > > > I'm > > > > burning up from the heat in the room, but I figure if they're > > > comfortable > > > > I'd better not argue. And the only reason it feels hot to me is that > my > > > > parents kept the house at 68 all the winter's I've lived with them. > > > > > > I'll feed him in the morning. They got the fish shippment > yesterday, > > > > but I had an evening class and it snowed all afternoon so yesterday > > > would've > > > > been a really bad day to get him. So he may have gone without food > > > > for > > > > several days. Their stomachs are about the size of their eyes, > > > right? So I > > > > make sure the amount of food is about the same size as his eye if > > > you put it > > > > all together? That's a tiny pinch, but I can figure it out. > > > > > > -Kathy > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>, Amber Berglund <arberglund@> > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 73 degrees should be just fine for him, as long as your room > > > temps do > > > > > > > not flucuate more than 3 degrees through a 24 hour period. > > > > > > > Did you ask when the store fed him last, or if they fed him > > > when he > > > > > > > arrived? Most likely they did not feed him yet if you just > > > picked him > > > > up > > > > > > > after the shipment arrived. > > > > > > > If you are uncertain feed him a small meal (betta's do not eat > > > very > > > > much > > > > > > > at all, just feed him a couple of tiny pellets or a little bit > of > > > > > > > crushed flake food), if you're uncertain how much to feed just > > > start > > > > out > > > > > > > small and if he eats it in less than a few seconds you might > > > be able > > > > to > > > > > > > get away with feeding a little more. I feed my betta every > > > other day > > > > and > > > > > > > he doesn't seem to be unhealthy from it, some days I feed him > > > on his > > > > > > > normal "off day" too, so he doesn't have too many breaks in > > > between > > > > meals. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Amber > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Kathy wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Hi all, > > > > > > > > Just got back from Walmart with a new betta about an hour > > > ago. He's > > > > > > > > red and blue (will post a pic as soon as I get a camera). > > > I've been > > > > > > > > slowly getting him used to the bowl water, and just about > > > > > > > > five > > > > minutes > > > > > > > > ago I let him free in the bowl. Now he's exploring. Two > > > questions: > > > > > > > > When do I give him his first meal? AND Is 73 degrees too > > > cool for > > > > him? > > > > > > > > That's what my thermometer is reading. > > > > > > > > -Kathy > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ------------------------------------ > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. > ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> > PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to > the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the > SUBJECT > LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- > <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. > > If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of unsubscribing, you > can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the > home page. > > Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com to receive the digest, which > includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email > > Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com for the No E-Mail option where > you will still be able to read messages on the group and post replies. > > Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com to receive individual > e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links > ------------------------------------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the home page. Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com to receive the digest, which includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com for the No E-Mail option where you will still be able to read messages on the group and post replies. Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com to receive individual e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 44144	From: Dora Smith	Date: 11/1/2009
Subject: Re: New betta

On the other hand, if that happens, you'll know it! I don't break out in a rash even from handling mosquito larva, though I sure break out when teh adults bite! Yours, Dora Smith Austin, TX tiggernut24@... ----- Original Message ----- From: "Steve Szabo" <steve@...> To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Saturday, October 31, 2009 4:18 PM Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: New betta Kathy, Bloodworms are problematic, not from the fish's point of view, but yours. Many people have allergies to the bloodworms and can break out in a rash or worse from them. People who have no allergies to them can become allergic over time. I would stay away from the freeze dried stuff. The frozen or live worms do not seem to carry the same effects. You mentioned snow in an earlier post. Were you the one dreaming of a white Halloween? \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Kathy Sent: Saturday, October 31, 2009 5:49 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: New betta Well, he seemed to ignore it when I put it in there. Should I try again when he's paying attention to the surface? Is it possible to get bloodworms dehydrated and in a jar, so that I don't have to keep them frozen? That would be a lot more convenient. -Kathy --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, Amber Berglund <arberglund@...> wrote: > > Does he notice the food when you drop it in and just ignore it? Mine > will chase food that I drop in, but he ignores anything that floats on > the surface mostly. He seems to prefer foods that sink. I feed mine > omega one sinking shrimp pellets, I also feed frozen foods (brine > shrimp, mysis shrimp, and their favorite bloodworms), not sure if your > walmart will have frozen foods, but they are the best to get for your > fishy. If they do not and you need to get freeze dried food instead make > sure you rehydrate it in a little cup of water for a good 30 seconds or > more to soak up some water before you give it to your betta, they can > become easily constipated so it's best to feed them well hydrated foods > just to be safe. > I also make my own jello fish food as well, and he gets little chunks of > it every now and then (it has mostly frozen fish/shrimp, frozen veggies, > and some left over flake foods), I did no have liquid vitamins and such > on hand to add to the mix this last time, they don't sell them in town > so I have to order it. But I figure my homemade food can't be any worse > than some of the flake foods out there ;) > > Amber > > Kathy wrote: > > > > > > Thanks for the links, Steve! I'll check them out. Gosh, I need to > > think of a name for him. Don't know what to call him. It'll come to me > > though. > > LOL now he's showing off and acting all macho for his own reflection. > > They sure are fun to watch! > > So if he doesn't take the BettaMin (I'v decided to give him a few days > > on that and see if he takes it when he is more comfortable with me), > > what should I buy to feed him? And does time of day make any > > difference in how eager he is to eat? > > -Kathy > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>, "Steve Szabo" <steve@> wrote: > > > > > > First, you are entering the wild, crazy, wonderful world of bettas. > > Take a > > > look here for just some of the color types you can see in bettas > > (meaning > > > _Betta splendens_, we'll forgo the 60 or so "wild" types of bettas). > > Take a > > > look at some of the more common color types here, > > > http://www.bettatalk.com/betta_colors.htm. > > <http://www.bettatalk.com/betta_colors.htm.> I do note a gross > > exception on > > > this page, and that is the pastels. Oh, well, I guess you can't get > > > everything all at once. > > > > > > Then, of course, you have tail types to consider, which are listed here: > > > > > http://www.associatedcontent.com/article/433417/overview_of_betta_fish_tail_ > > <http://www.associatedcontent.com/article/433417/overview_of_betta_fish_tail _> > > > types_and.html?cat=53 > > > http://tinyurl.com/yku2rrp <http://tinyurl.com/yku2rrp> > > > > > > This will give you some reading for the weekend, and, of course, > > there is > > > your friend, Google, to lead you to even more information on bettas. > > > > > > \\Steve// > > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On > > > Behalf Of Kathy > > > Sent: Saturday, October 31, 2009 12:01 PM > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: New betta > > > > > > Thanks, Kai. > > > There's a bit of a problem. He apparently doesn't like Tetra BettaMin > > > flakes. He won't eat them. I'm pretty sure he's hungry cause he's > > showing > > > hunting behaviors, he's gotten really active and seems like he's > > looking for > > > something (I've seen the exact same behavior in my snake when he's > > hungry, > > > isnt' it weird how two animals so different can act so similar!), but he > > > still won't eat the BettaMin. And I won't be able to get back to WalMart > > > until Monday (that's when my friend is taking me to get some general > > > shopping done), unless I can sweet talk the people who are giving me > > a ride > > > to church tomorrow into taking me there to pick up some better betta > > food. > > > And I don't want to seem greedy about rides, I probabaly wouldn't > > ask cause > > > I'd feel like I was taking advantage of them. But anyway, what do I feed > > > him instead of BettaMin? > > > I was shocked to see so many bicolor bettas--I had thought they were > > solid! > > > At least they were when I was a kid. I grew up on class pets of either > > > solid red or solid blue bettas, because we couldn't have anything in the > > > classroom with fur or feathers. But this guy is a mix of red and blue. > > > There was a pink and iridescent white one (he looked like an opal) > > that I > > > liked a lot but he didn't look as healthy as my little guy. > > > Anyway, advice on what to feed him would be appreciated! I can tell he's > > > hungry, but he seems to be a picky eater! > > > -Kathy > > > > > > > > > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>, "kuradi8" <kuradi8@> wrote: > > > > > > > > "Their stomachs are about the size of their eyes." What a perfect > > way to > > > explain it! Especially to kids! (And seniors like my Mom.) > > > > > > > > Enjoy your Betta. I love mine. They have so much personality! Chow > > Mein > > > and Sweet-and-Sour are here in my office. Of course in individual tanks! > > > And Kala ("Fish") is downstairs with Mom. Kala is also red and blue and > > > also from Walmart. Twins? :o) > > > > > > > > > > > Basically, as long as you're comfortable, your Betta will be too. Keep > > > him out of the sun and away from anything that can vary his water's > > > temperature. > > > > > > > > Each of my tanks has a small potted aquatic plant. I used small > > plastic > > > party cups with sand and a layer of gravel on top. To clean the > > tank, I use > > > a length of air line hose rubber-banded to a long chopstick so I can > > vacuum > > > the bottom without having to stick my hand in the water. > > > > ~Kai > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>, "Kathy" <kl_whitney@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > Ok thanks Amber. My room's pretty stable, my suitemates keep the > > > thermostat for our suite at 76ish. And I don't argue, cause they're all > > > thin and have less.....insulation than I do. Some days I feel like I'm > > > burning up from the heat in the room, but I figure if they're > > comfortable > > > I'd better not argue. And the only reason it feels hot to me is that my > > > parents kept the house at 68 all the winter's I've lived with them. > > > > > I'll feed him in the morning. They got the fish shippment yesterday, > > > but I had an evening class and it snowed all afternoon so yesterday > > would've > > > been a really bad day to get him. So he may have gone without food for > > > several days. Their stomachs are about the size of their eyes, > > right? So I > > > make sure the amount of food is about the same size as his eye if > > you put it > > > all together? That's a tiny pinch, but I can figure it out. > > > > > -Kathy > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>, Amber Berglund <arberglund@> > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > 73 degrees should be just fine for him, as long as your room > > temps do > > > > > > not flucuate more than 3 degrees through a 24 hour period. > > > > > > Did you ask when the store fed him last, or if they fed him > > when he > > > > > > arrived? Most likely they did not feed him yet if you just > > picked him > > > up > > > > > > after the shipment arrived. > > > > > > If you are uncertain feed him a small meal (betta's do not eat > > very > > > much > > > > > > at all, just feed him a couple of tiny pellets or a little bit of > > > > > > crushed flake food), if you're uncertain how much to feed just > > start > > > out > > > > > > small and if he eats it in less than a few seconds you might > > be able > > > to > > > > > > get away with feeding a little more. I feed my betta every > > other day > > > and > > > > > > he doesn't seem to be unhealthy from it, some days I feed him > > on his > > > > > > normal "off day" too, so he doesn't have too many breaks in > > between > > > meals. > > > > > > > > > > > > Amber > > > > > > > > > > > > Kathy wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Hi all, > > > > > > > Just got back from Walmart with a new betta about an hour > > ago. He's > > > > > > > red and blue (will post a pic as soon as I get a camera). > > I've been > > > > > > > slowly getting him used to the bowl water, and just about five > > > minutes > > > > > > > ago I let him free in the bowl. Now he's exploring. Two > > questions: > > > > > > > When do I give him his first meal? AND Is 73 degrees too > > cool for > > > him? > > > > > > > That's what my thermometer is reading. > > > > > > > -Kathy > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ------------------------------------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the home page. Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com to receive the digest, which includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com for the No E-Mail option where you will still be able to read messages on the group and post replies. Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com to receive individual e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links ------------------------------------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the home page. Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com to receive the digest, which includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com for the No E-Mail option where you will still be able to read messages on the group and post replies. 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Group: AquaticLife	Message: 44145	From: Dora Smith	Date: 11/1/2009
Subject: Re: New betta

Well, break out in a BIG lump, I mean! Yours, Dora Smith Austin, TX tiggernut24@... ----- Original Message ----- From: "Dora Smith" <tiggernut24@...> To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Sunday, November 01, 2009 7:35 AM Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: New betta > On the other hand, if that happens, you'll know it! > > I don't break out in a rash even from handling mosquito larva, though I > sure break out when teh adults bite! > > Yours, > Dora Smith > Austin, TX > tiggernut24@... > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Steve Szabo" <steve@...> > To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com> > Sent: Saturday, October 31, 2009 4:18 PM > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: New betta > > > Kathy, > > Bloodworms are problematic, not from the fish's point of view, but yours. > Many people have allergies to the bloodworms and can break out in a rash > or > worse from them. People who have no allergies to them can become allergic > over time. I would stay away from the freeze dried stuff. The frozen or > live > worms do not seem to carry the same effects. > > You mentioned snow in an earlier post. Were you the one dreaming of a > white > Halloween? > > \\Steve// > > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On > Behalf Of Kathy > Sent: Saturday, October 31, 2009 5:49 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: New betta > > Well, he seemed to ignore it when I put it in there. Should I try again > when he's paying attention to the surface? Is it possible to get > bloodworms > dehydrated and in a jar, so that I don't have to keep them frozen? That > would be a lot more convenient. > -Kathy > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, Amber Berglund <arberglund@...> wrote: >> >> Does he notice the food when you drop it in and just ignore it? Mine >> will chase food that I drop in, but he ignores anything that floats on >> the surface mostly. He seems to prefer foods that sink. I feed mine >> omega one sinking shrimp pellets, I also feed frozen foods (brine >> shrimp, mysis shrimp, and their favorite bloodworms), not sure if your >> walmart will have frozen foods, but they are the best to get for your >> fishy. If they do not and you need to get freeze dried food instead make >> sure you rehydrate it in a little cup of water for a good 30 seconds or >> more to soak up some water before you give it to your betta, they can >> become easily constipated so it's best to feed them well hydrated foods >> just to be safe. >> I also make my own jello fish food as well, and he gets little chunks of >> it every now and then (it has mostly frozen fish/shrimp, frozen veggies, >> and some left over flake foods), I did no have liquid vitamins and such >> on hand to add to the mix this last time, they don't sell them in town >> so I have to order it. But I figure my homemade food can't be any worse >> than some of the flake foods out there ;) >> >> Amber >> >> Kathy wrote: >> > >> > >> > Thanks for the links, Steve! I'll check them out. Gosh, I need to >> > think of a name for him. Don't know what to call him. It'll come to me >> > though. >> > LOL now he's showing off and acting all macho for his own reflection. >> > They sure are fun to watch! >> > So if he doesn't take the BettaMin (I'v decided to give him a few days >> > on that and see if he takes it when he is more comfortable with me), >> > what should I buy to feed him? And does time of day make any >> > difference in how eager he is to eat? >> > -Kathy >> > >> > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com >> > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>, "Steve Szabo" <steve@> wrote: >> > > >> > > First, you are entering the wild, crazy, wonderful world of bettas. >> > Take a >> > > look here for just some of the color types you can see in bettas >> > (meaning >> > > _Betta splendens_, we'll forgo the 60 or so "wild" types of bettas). >> > Take a >> > > look at some of the more common color types here, >> > > http://www.bettatalk.com/betta_colors.htm. >> > <http://www.bettatalk.com/betta_colors.htm.> I do note a gross >> > exception on >> > > this page, and that is the pastels. Oh, well, I guess you can't get >> > > everything all at once. >> > > >> > > Then, of course, you have tail types to consider, which are listed > here: >> > > >> > > http://www.associatedcontent.com/article/433417/overview_of_betta_fish_tail_ > >> > > <http://www.associatedcontent.com/article/433417/overview_of_betta_fish_tail > _> >> > > types_and.html?cat=53 >> > > http://tinyurl.com/yku2rrp <http://tinyurl.com/yku2rrp> >> > > >> > > This will give you some reading for the weekend, and, of course, >> > there is >> > > your friend, Google, to lead you to even more information on bettas. >> > > >> > > \\Steve// >> > > >> > > >> > > -----Original Message----- >> > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com >> > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> >> > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com >> > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On >> > > Behalf Of Kathy >> > > Sent: Saturday, October 31, 2009 12:01 PM >> > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com >> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> >> > > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: New betta >> > > >> > > Thanks, Kai. >> > > There's a bit of a problem. He apparently doesn't like Tetra BettaMin >> > > flakes. He won't eat them. I'm pretty sure he's hungry cause he's >> > showing >> > > hunting behaviors, he's gotten really active and seems like he's >> > looking for >> > > something (I've seen the exact same behavior in my snake when he's >> > hungry, >> > > isnt' it weird how two animals so different can act so similar!), but > he >> > > still won't eat the BettaMin. And I won't be able to get back to > WalMart >> > > until Monday (that's when my friend is taking me to get some general >> > > shopping done), unless I can sweet talk the people who are giving me >> > a ride >> > > to church tomorrow into taking me there to pick up some better betta >> > food. >> > > And I don't want to seem greedy about rides, I probabaly wouldn't >> > ask cause >> > > I'd feel like I was taking advantage of them. But anyway, what do I > feed >> > > him instead of BettaMin? >> > > I was shocked to see so many bicolor bettas--I had thought they were >> > solid! >> > > At least they were when I was a kid. I grew up on class pets of >> > > either >> > > solid red or solid blue bettas, because we couldn't have anything in > the >> > > classroom with fur or feathers. But this guy is a mix of red and >> > > blue. >> > > There was a pink and iridescent white one (he looked like an opal) >> > that I >> > > liked a lot but he didn't look as healthy as my little guy. >> > > Anyway, advice on what to feed him would be appreciated! I can tell > he's >> > > hungry, but he seems to be a picky eater! >> > > -Kathy >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com >> > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>, "kuradi8" <kuradi8@> wrote: >> > > > >> > > > "Their stomachs are about the size of their eyes." What a perfect >> > way to >> > > explain it! Especially to kids! (And seniors like my Mom.) >> > > > >> > > > Enjoy your Betta. I love mine. They have so much personality! Chow >> > Mein >> > > and Sweet-and-Sour are here in my office. Of course in individual > tanks! >> > > And Kala ("Fish") is downstairs with Mom. Kala is also red and blue > and >> > > also from Walmart. Twins? :o) >> > > >> > > > >> > > > Basically, as long as you're comfortable, your Betta will be too. > Keep >> > > him out of the sun and away from anything that can vary his water's >> > > temperature. >> > > > >> > > > Each of my tanks has a small potted aquatic plant. I used small >> > plastic >> > > party cups with sand and a layer of gravel on top. To clean the >> > tank, I use >> > > a length of air line hose rubber-banded to a long chopstick so I can >> > vacuum >> > > the bottom without having to stick my hand in the water. >> > > > ~Kai >> > > > >> > > > >> > > > >> > > > >> > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com >> > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>, "Kathy" <kl_whitney@> wrote: >> > > > > >> > > > > Ok thanks Amber. My room's pretty stable, my suitemates keep the >> > > thermostat for our suite at 76ish. And I don't argue, cause they're > all >> > > thin and have less.....insulation than I do. Some days I feel like >> > > I'm >> > > burning up from the heat in the room, but I figure if they're >> > comfortable >> > > I'd better not argue. And the only reason it feels hot to me is that > my >> > > parents kept the house at 68 all the winter's I've lived with them. >> > > > > I'll feed him in the morning. They got the fish shippment > yesterday, >> > > but I had an evening class and it snowed all afternoon so yesterday >> > would've >> > > been a really bad day to get him. So he may have gone without food >> > > for >> > > several days. Their stomachs are about the size of their eyes, >> > right? So I >> > > make sure the amount of food is about the same size as his eye if >> > you put it >> > > all together? That's a tiny pinch, but I can figure it out. >> > > > > -Kathy >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com >> > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>, Amber Berglund <arberglund@> >> > wrote: >> > > > > > >> > > > > > 73 degrees should be just fine for him, as long as your room >> > temps do >> > > > > > not flucuate more than 3 degrees through a 24 hour period. >> > > > > > Did you ask when the store fed him last, or if they fed him >> > when he >> > > > > > arrived? Most likely they did not feed him yet if you just >> > picked him >> > > up >> > > > > > after the shipment arrived. >> > > > > > If you are uncertain feed him a small meal (betta's do not eat >> > very >> > > much >> > > > > > at all, just feed him a couple of tiny pellets or a little bit > of >> > > > > > crushed flake food), if you're uncertain how much to feed just >> > start >> > > out >> > > > > > small and if he eats it in less than a few seconds you might >> > be able >> > > to >> > > > > > get away with feeding a little more. I feed my betta every >> > other day >> > > and >> > > > > > he doesn't seem to be unhealthy from it, some days I feed him >> > on his >> > > > > > normal "off day" too, so he doesn't have too many breaks in >> > between >> > > meals. >> > > > > > >> > > > > > Amber >> > > > > > >> > > > > > Kathy wrote: >> > > > > > > >> > > > > > > >> > > > > > > Hi all, >> > > > > > > Just got back from Walmart with a new betta about an hour >> > ago. He's >> > > > > > > red and blue (will post a pic as soon as I get a camera). >> > I've been >> > > > > > > slowly getting him used to the bowl water, and just about >> > > > > > > five >> > > minutes >> > > > > > > ago I let him free in the bowl. Now he's exploring. Two >> > questions: >> > > > > > > When do I give him his first meal? AND Is 73 degrees too >> > cool for >> > > him? >> > > > > > > That's what my thermometer is reading. >> > > > > > > -Kathy >> > > > > > > >> > > > > > > >> > > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > >> > > >> > >> > >> > > > > > ------------------------------------ > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. > ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> > PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to > the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the > SUBJECT > LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- > <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. > > If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of unsubscribing, you > can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the > home page. > > Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com to receive the digest, which > includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email > > Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com for the No E-Mail option where > you will still be able to read messages on the group and post replies. > > Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com to receive individual > e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > > ------------------------------------ > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. > ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> > PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to > the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the > SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- > <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. > > If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of unsubscribing, you > can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the > home page. > > Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com to receive the digest, which > includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email > > Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com for the No E-Mail option where > you will still be able to read messages on the group and post replies. > > Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com to receive individual > e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links > > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 44146	From: Dora Smith	Date: 11/1/2009
Subject: Re: He ate! Re: New betta

I sometimes have to waggle my finger around it until he sees the food I just put in. Then usually he goes for it. Yours, Dora Smith Austin, TX tiggernut24@... ----- Original Message ----- From: "Kathy" <kl_whitney@...> To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Saturday, October 31, 2009 5:09 PM Subject: [AquaticLife] He ate! Re: New betta So I put in another itty bitty pinch of food when he was paying attention. And he ate his fill. I think it's just a matter of giving him his food when he's near the surface and paying attention to what I'm doing. Otherwise he doesn't notice and he won't eat. I'll just make sure he's paying attention next time I try to feed him. Guess he has to have the right conditions to eat. Kinda like my snake, Serpi (short for Serpenticulus). Serpi is so spoiled that he is never sure what to do about eating in a feeding cage. He's used to being hand fed (he sits on my lap and I hand the mice to him), so he just gets this confused look on his face when I'm pressed for time and put him in the feeding cage with his prekilled mice. BTW, the betta has a name now. I've decided to call him Pisces. I wasn't sure at first, it was a name I was considering, but now it just seems right for him. Is it weird that I talk to him on occasion? Does anyone else here talk to their fish? -Kathy --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Dora Smith" <tiggernut24@...> wrote: > > Yup. Blood worms, about three of them. But I understand it isn't good > to > feed them to them constantly. Nevertheless that's all my housemate ever > fed hers - every other day. > > They're really midge larva or something. You can also feed them frozen > brine shrimp, but they aren't as nutritious. > > Yours, > Dora Smith > Austin, TX > tiggernut24@... > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Kathy" <kl_whitney@...> > To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com> > Sent: Saturday, October 31, 2009 10:03 AM > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: New betta > > > Thanks Dora. I don't think Walmart carries either brand. And there's > already been two snowstorms, so I can't give him mosquito larvae. Is > there > some sort of freeze dried insect I can feed him? > -Kathy > > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Dora Smith" <tiggernut24@> wrote: > > > > I've found mine does best on two to three Ocean Nutrition Atison's betta > > food two to three times a day - or equivalent in flake. He also gets > > formula one flakes - the red kind. He'll eat forumula two - the green > > ones - less happily if he's starving. And Spectrum small fish pellets. > > Those are all relatively high quality foods. And every once in awhile I > > give him a little HBH Betta Colorbright, but I don't think that's as > > high > > quality a food. > > > > He's supposed to get more frozen/ fresh food than he does. He LOVES > > mo'quito larbas, if there are still any around where you live. Google > > image > > them; you can scoop a fish net over standing water, and easily pick them > > off > > the surface; tehy're good sized and easy to recognize and catch. > > > > Yours, > > Dora Smith > > Austin, TX > > tiggernut24@ > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: "Kathy" <kl_whitney@> > > To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com> > > Sent: Saturday, October 31, 2009 12:40 AM > > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: New betta > > > > > > Ok thanks Amber. My room's pretty stable, my suitemates keep the > > thermostat > > for our suite at 76ish. And I don't argue, cause they're all thin and > > have > > less.....insulation than I do. Some days I feel like I'm burning up > > from > > the heat in the room, but I figure if they're comfortable I'd better not > > argue. And the only reason it feels hot to me is that my parents kept > > the > > house at 68 all the winter's I've lived with them. > > I'll feed him in the morning. They got the fish shippment yesterday, > > but > > I > > had an evening class and it snowed all afternoon so yesterday would've > > been > > a really bad day to get him. So he may have gone without food for > > several > > days. Their stomachs are about the size of their eyes, right? So I > > make > > sure the amount of food is about the same size as his eye if you put it > > all > > together? That's a tiny pinch, but I can figure it out. > > -Kathy > > > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, Amber Berglund <arberglund@> wrote: > > > > > > 73 degrees should be just fine for him, as long as your room temps do > > > not flucuate more than 3 degrees through a 24 hour period. > > > Did you ask when the store fed him last, or if they fed him when he > > > arrived? Most likely they did not feed him yet if you just picked him > > > up > > > after the shipment arrived. > > > If you are uncertain feed him a small meal (betta's do not eat very > > > much > > > at all, just feed him a couple of tiny pellets or a little bit of > > > crushed flake food), if you're uncertain how much to feed just start > > > out > > > small and if he eats it in less than a few seconds you might be able > > > to > > > get away with feeding a little more. I feed my betta every other day > > > and > > > he doesn't seem to be unhealthy from it, some days I feed him on his > > > normal "off day" too, so he doesn't have too many breaks in between > > > meals. > > > > > > Amber > > > > > > Kathy wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > Hi all, > > > > Just got back from Walmart with a new betta about an hour ago. He's > > > > red and blue (will post a pic as soon as I get a camera). I've been > > > > slowly getting him used to the bowl water, and just about five > > > > minutes > > > > ago I let him free in the bowl. Now he's exploring. Two questions: > > > > When do I give him his first meal? AND Is 73 degrees too cool for > > > > him? > > > > That's what my thermometer is reading. > > > > -Kathy > > > > > ------------------------------------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the home page. Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com to receive the digest, which includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com for the No E-Mail option where you will still be able to read messages on the group and post replies. Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com to receive individual e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 44147	From: Dora Smith	Date: 11/1/2009
Subject: Re: New betta

LOL. Those worms are small and slimy - never occurred to me to pick them up with my bare hands! Now, my back yard produces two kinds of mosquito larva. One kind is easiest to catch with your bare hands, and then I just put them on the back of my hand to carry them inside to the fish. Now, teh other kind are dive bombers; sometimes one has to catch them with the net, because not even a dropper can catch up with them! But for frozen and thawed bloodworms, I use a pipette with an end cut off. Nathaniel the Fish comes running when he sees it, and he eats them right out of the pipette. Yours, Dora Smith Austin, TX tiggernut24@... ----- Original Message ----- From: "Steve Szabo" <steve@...> To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Saturday, October 31, 2009 7:26 PM Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: New betta Kathy, I do not think you need to go to all that trouble, unless you start to notice what may be symptoms of the allergy. Just don't buy any more <g>. I just wanted to let you know that a good number of people have this problem. Astronomy Domine--live recording, WOW! (playing in the background, can you hear it? <g>). Probably recorded before you were born <G>. Coming up . . . Atom Heart Mother--20 minutes worth! \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Kathy Sent: Saturday, October 31, 2009 7:14 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: New betta Ok, thanks for letting me know. Would it be better to feed him dried bloodworms with tweezers while wearing rubber gloves? I have both, though the tweezers are supposed to be for shaping my eyebrows ;) and the gloves are the kind you wash dishes or clean bathrooms with. The gloves are clean, brand new, but the tweezers would need a washing before I used them to feed Pisces because I've been using them to shape my eyebrows. -Kathy --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Steve Szabo" <steve@...> wrote: > > Kathy, > > Bloodworms are problematic, not from the fish's point of view, but yours. > Many people have allergies to the bloodworms and can break out in a rash or > worse from them. People who have no allergies to them can become allergic > over time. I would stay away from the freeze dried stuff. The frozen or live > worms do not seem to carry the same effects. > > You mentioned snow in an earlier post. Were you the one dreaming of a white > Halloween? > > \\Steve// > > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On > Behalf Of Kathy > Sent: Saturday, October 31, 2009 5:49 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: New betta > > Well, he seemed to ignore it when I put it in there. Should I try again > when he's paying attention to the surface? Is it possible to get bloodworms > dehydrated and in a jar, so that I don't have to keep them frozen? That > would be a lot more convenient. > -Kathy > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, Amber Berglund <arberglund@> wrote: > > > > Does he notice the food when you drop it in and just ignore it? Mine > > will chase food that I drop in, but he ignores anything that floats on > > the surface mostly. He seems to prefer foods that sink. I feed mine > > omega one sinking shrimp pellets, I also feed frozen foods (brine > > shrimp, mysis shrimp, and their favorite bloodworms), not sure if your > > walmart will have frozen foods, but they are the best to get for your > > fishy. If they do not and you need to get freeze dried food instead make > > sure you rehydrate it in a little cup of water for a good 30 seconds or > > more to soak up some water before you give it to your betta, they can > > become easily constipated so it's best to feed them well hydrated foods > > just to be safe. > > I also make my own jello fish food as well, and he gets little chunks of > > it every now and then (it has mostly frozen fish/shrimp, frozen veggies, > > and some left over flake foods), I did no have liquid vitamins and such > > on hand to add to the mix this last time, they don't sell them in town > > so I have to order it. But I figure my homemade food can't be any worse > > than some of the flake foods out there ;) > > > > Amber > > > > Kathy wrote: > > > > > > > > > Thanks for the links, Steve! I'll check them out. Gosh, I need to > > > think of a name for him. Don't know what to call him. It'll come to me > > > though. > > > LOL now he's showing off and acting all macho for his own reflection. > > > They sure are fun to watch! > > > So if he doesn't take the BettaMin (I'v decided to give him a few days > > > on that and see if he takes it when he is more comfortable with me), > > > what should I buy to feed him? And does time of day make any > > > difference in how eager he is to eat? > > > -Kathy > > > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>, "Steve Szabo" <steve@> wrote: > > > > > > > > First, you are entering the wild, crazy, wonderful world of bettas. > > > Take a > > > > look here for just some of the color types you can see in bettas > > > (meaning > > > > _Betta splendens_, we'll forgo the 60 or so "wild" types of bettas). > > > Take a > > > > look at some of the more common color types here, > > > > http://www.bettatalk.com/betta_colors.htm. > > > <http://www.bettatalk.com/betta_colors.htm.> I do note a gross > > > exception on > > > > this page, and that is the pastels. Oh, well, I guess you can't get > > > > everything all at once. > > > > > > > > Then, of course, you have tail types to consider, which are listed > here: > > > > > > > > http://www.associatedcontent.com/article/433417/overview_of_betta_fish_tail_ > > > > > <http://www.associatedcontent.com/article/433417/overview_of_betta_fish_tail > _> > > > > types_and.html?cat=53 > > > > http://tinyurl.com/yku2rrp <http://tinyurl.com/yku2rrp> > > > > > > > > This will give you some reading for the weekend, and, of course, > > > there is > > > > your friend, Google, to lead you to even more information on bettas. > > > > > > > > \\Steve// > > > > > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On > > > > Behalf Of Kathy > > > > Sent: Saturday, October 31, 2009 12:01 PM > > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: New betta > > > > > > > > Thanks, Kai. > > > > There's a bit of a problem. He apparently doesn't like Tetra BettaMin > > > > flakes. He won't eat them. I'm pretty sure he's hungry cause he's > > > showing > > > > hunting behaviors, he's gotten really active and seems like he's > > > looking for > > > > something (I've seen the exact same behavior in my snake when he's > > > hungry, > > > > isnt' it weird how two animals so different can act so similar!), but > he > > > > still won't eat the BettaMin. And I won't be able to get back to > WalMart > > > > until Monday (that's when my friend is taking me to get some general > > > > shopping done), unless I can sweet talk the people who are giving me > > > a ride > > > > to church tomorrow into taking me there to pick up some better betta > > > food. > > > > And I don't want to seem greedy about rides, I probabaly wouldn't > > > ask cause > > > > I'd feel like I was taking advantage of them. But anyway, what do I > feed > > > > him instead of BettaMin? > > > > I was shocked to see so many bicolor bettas--I had thought they were > > > solid! > > > > At least they were when I was a kid. I grew up on class pets of either > > > > solid red or solid blue bettas, because we couldn't have anything in > the > > > > classroom with fur or feathers. But this guy is a mix of red and blue. > > > > There was a pink and iridescent white one (he looked like an opal) > > > that I > > > > liked a lot but he didn't look as healthy as my little guy. > > > > Anyway, advice on what to feed him would be appreciated! I can tell > he's > > > > hungry, but he seems to be a picky eater! > > > > -Kathy > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>, "kuradi8" <kuradi8@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > "Their stomachs are about the size of their eyes." What a perfect > > > way to > > > > explain it! Especially to kids! (And seniors like my Mom.) > > > > > > > > > > Enjoy your Betta. I love mine. They have so much personality! Chow > > > Mein > > > > and Sweet-and-Sour are here in my office. Of course in individual > tanks! > > > > And Kala ("Fish") is downstairs with Mom. Kala is also red and blue > and > > > > also from Walmart. Twins? :o) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Basically, as long as you're comfortable, your Betta will be too. > Keep > > > > him out of the sun and away from anything that can vary his water's > > > > temperature. > > > > > > > > > > Each of my tanks has a small potted aquatic plant. I used small > > > plastic > > > > party cups with sand and a layer of gravel on top. To clean the > > > tank, I use > > > > a length of air line hose rubber-banded to a long chopstick so I can > > > vacuum > > > > the bottom without having to stick my hand in the water. > > > > > ~Kai > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>, "Kathy" <kl_whitney@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > Ok thanks Amber. My room's pretty stable, my suitemates keep the > > > > thermostat for our suite at 76ish. And I don't argue, cause they're > all > > > > thin and have less.....insulation than I do. Some days I feel like I'm > > > > burning up from the heat in the room, but I figure if they're > > > comfortable > > > > I'd better not argue. And the only reason it feels hot to me is that > my > > > > parents kept the house at 68 all the winter's I've lived with them. > > > > > > I'll feed him in the morning. They got the fish shippment > yesterday, > > > > but I had an evening class and it snowed all afternoon so yesterday > > > would've > > > > been a really bad day to get him. So he may have gone without food for > > > > several days. Their stomachs are about the size of their eyes, > > > right? So I > > > > make sure the amount of food is about the same size as his eye if > > > you put it > > > > all together? That's a tiny pinch, but I can figure it out. > > > > > > -Kathy > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>, Amber Berglund <arberglund@> > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 73 degrees should be just fine for him, as long as your room > > > temps do > > > > > > > not flucuate more than 3 degrees through a 24 hour period. > > > > > > > Did you ask when the store fed him last, or if they fed him > > > when he > > > > > > > arrived? Most likely they did not feed him yet if you just > > > picked him > > > > up > > > > > > > after the shipment arrived. > > > > > > > If you are uncertain feed him a small meal (betta's do not eat > > > very > > > > much > > > > > > > at all, just feed him a couple of tiny pellets or a little bit > of > > > > > > > crushed flake food), if you're uncertain how much to feed just > > > start > > > > out > > > > > > > small and if he eats it in less than a few seconds you might > > > be able > > > > to > > > > > > > get away with feeding a little more. I feed my betta every > > > other day > > > > and > > > > > > > he doesn't seem to be unhealthy from it, some days I feed him > > > on his > > > > > > > normal "off day" too, so he doesn't have too many breaks in > > > between > > > > meals. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Amber > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Kathy wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Hi all, > > > > > > > > Just got back from Walmart with a new betta about an hour > > > ago. He's > > > > > > > > red and blue (will post a pic as soon as I get a camera). > > > I've been > > > > > > > > slowly getting him used to the bowl water, and just about five > > > > minutes > > > > > > > > ago I let him free in the bowl. Now he's exploring. Two > > > questions: > > > > > > > > When do I give him his first meal? AND Is 73 degrees too > > > cool for > > > > him? > > > > > > > > That's what my thermometer is reading. > > > > > > > > -Kathy > > > > > > > > ------------------------------------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the home page. Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com to receive the digest, which includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com for the No E-Mail option where you will still be able to read messages on the group and post replies. Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com to receive individual e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 44148	From: kuradi8	Date: 11/1/2009
Subject: Re: New betta

My Bettas don't care for the flakes either -- but they'll eat them if they get hungry enough. They like the "Granules" better. Also TetraMin brand -- with the dark green color coded cap. The stuff with the green cap is tough to find around here but my Walmart carries Wardley and other brands of granules so maybe yours will too. Sweet-and-Sour is a solid orange colored veil tail. (I read somewhere that orange is a hard color to breed.) And Chow Mein is a triple-double-tail crowntail. His fringe forks once, twice and then many of them fork a third time right at the tips. He's navy, royal and teal but comes out green in photographs. And don't worry, he'll eventually name himself. Mine have all had names off the Chinese take-out menu. ~Kai --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Kathy" <kl_whitney@...> wrote: > > Thanks, Kai. > There's a bit of a problem. He apparently doesn't like Tetra BettaMin flakes. He won't eat them. I'm pretty sure he's hungry cause he's showing hunting behaviors, he's gotten really active and seems like he's looking for something (I've seen the exact same behavior in my snake when he's hungry, isnt' it weird how two animals so different can act so similar!), but he still won't eat the BettaMin. And I won't be able to get back to WalMart until Monday (that's when my friend is taking me to get some general shopping done), unless I can sweet talk the people who are giving me a ride to church tomorrow into taking me there to pick up some better betta food. And I don't want to seem greedy about rides, I probabaly wouldn't ask cause I'd feel like I was taking advantage of them. But anyway, what do I feed him instead of BettaMin? > I was shocked to see so many bicolor bettas--I had thought they were solid! At least they were when I was a kid. I grew up on class pets of either solid red or solid blue bettas, because we couldn't have anything in the classroom with fur or feathers. But this guy is a mix of red and blue. There was a pink and iridescent white one (he looked like an opal) that I liked a lot but he didn't look as healthy as my little guy. > Anyway, advice on what to feed him would be appreciated! I can tell he's hungry, but he seems to be a picky eater! > -Kathy > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "kuradi8" <kuradi8@> wrote: > > > > "Their stomachs are about the size of their eyes." What a perfect way to explain it! Especially to kids! (And seniors like my Mom.) > > > > Enjoy your Betta. I love mine. They have so much personality! Chow Mein and Sweet-and-Sour are here in my office. Of course in individual tanks! And Kala ("Fish") is downstairs with Mom. Kala is also red and blue and also from Walmart. Twins? :o) > > > > Basically, as long as you're comfortable, your Betta will be too. Keep him out of the sun and away from anything that can vary his water's temperature. > > > > Each of my tanks has a small potted aquatic plant. I used small plastic party cups with sand and a layer of gravel on top. To clean the tank, I use a length of air line hose rubber-banded to a long chopstick so I can vacuum the bottom without having to stick my hand in the water. > > ~Kai > > > > > > > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Kathy" <kl_whitney@> wrote: > > > > > > Ok thanks Amber. My room's pretty stable, my suitemates keep the thermostat for our suite at 76ish. And I don't argue, cause they're all thin and have less.....insulation than I do. Some days I feel like I'm burning up from the heat in the room, but I figure if they're comfortable I'd better not argue. And the only reason it feels hot to me is that my parents kept the house at 68 all the winter's I've lived with them. > > > I'll feed him in the morning. They got the fish shippment yesterday, but I had an evening class and it snowed all afternoon so yesterday would've been a really bad day to get him. So he may have gone without food for several days. Their stomachs are about the size of their eyes, right? So I make sure the amount of food is about the same size as his eye if you put it all together? That's a tiny pinch, but I can figure it out. > > > -Kathy > > > > > > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, Amber Berglund <arberglund@> wrote: > > > > > > > > 73 degrees should be just fine for him, as long as your room temps do > > > > not flucuate more than 3 degrees through a 24 hour period. > > > > Did you ask when the store fed him last, or if they fed him when he > > > > arrived? Most likely they did not feed him yet if you just picked him up > > > > after the shipment arrived. > > > > If you are uncertain feed him a small meal (betta's do not eat very much > > > > at all, just feed him a couple of tiny pellets or a little bit of > > > > crushed flake food), if you're uncertain how much to feed just start out > > > > small and if he eats it in less than a few seconds you might be able to > > > > get away with feeding a little more. I feed my betta every other day and > > > > he doesn't seem to be unhealthy from it, some days I feed him on his > > > > normal "off day" too, so he doesn't have too many breaks in between meals. > > > > > > > > Amber > > > > > > > > Kathy wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Hi all, > > > > > Just got back from Walmart with a new betta about an hour ago. He's > > > > > red and blue (will post a pic as soon as I get a camera). I've been > > > > > slowly getting him used to the bowl water, and just about five minutes > > > > > ago I let him free in the bowl. Now he's exploring. Two questions: > > > > > When do I give him his first meal? AND Is 73 degrees too cool for him? > > > > > That's what my thermometer is reading. > > > > > -Kathy > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 44149	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 11/1/2009
Subject: Re: New betta

You can get pipettes from any place that sells bird hand feeding supplies. Check on drsfostersmith.com under their bird menu and feeding supplies, they have lots of stuff to hand feed baby birds with. I have bought them from fostersmith in the past when I was still raising sun conures. Amber Dora Smith wrote: > > > I thaw the bloodworms, and put in a little water (dechlorinated, even > from > the bowl), and feed with a plastic pipette. Unfortunately you probably > have to send away to a home science supply place for some pipettes, > unless > you're in a science class and the lab will let you have a couple, but > they're likley to only have glass ones. > > Pipettes come in handy for measuring out your dechlorinators and such as > well. > > You want a relatively large plastic pipette - 3 ml - with part of an end > snipped off - for feeding bloodworms and other animules. > > Yours, > Dora Smith > Austin, TX > tiggernut24@... <mailto:tiggernut24%40yahoo.com> > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Kathy" <kl_whitney@... <mailto:kl_whitney%40yahoo.com>> > To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>> > Sent: Saturday, October 31, 2009 5:13 PM > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: New betta > > Ok, thanks for letting me know. Would it be better to feed him dried > bloodworms with tweezers while wearing rubber gloves? I have both, though > the tweezers are supposed to be for shaping my eyebrows ;) and the gloves > are the kind you wash dishes or clean bathrooms with. The gloves are > clean, > brand new, but the tweezers would need a washing before I used them to > feed > Pisces because I've been using them to shape my eyebrows. > -Kathy > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>, "Steve Szabo" <steve@...> wrote: > > > > Kathy, > > > > Bloodworms are problematic, not from the fish's point of view, but > yours. > > Many people have allergies to the bloodworms and can break out in a > rash > > or > > worse from them. People who have no allergies to them can become > allergic > > over time. I would stay away from the freeze dried stuff. The frozen or > > live > > worms do not seem to carry the same effects. > > > > You mentioned snow in an earlier post. Were you the one dreaming of a > > white > > Halloween? > > > > \\Steve// > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On > > Behalf Of Kathy > > Sent: Saturday, October 31, 2009 5:49 PM > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: New betta > > > > Well, he seemed to ignore it when I put it in there. Should I try again > > when he's paying attention to the surface? Is it possible to get > > bloodworms > > dehydrated and in a jar, so that I don't have to keep them frozen? That > > would be a lot more convenient. > > -Kathy > > > > > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>, Amber Berglund <arberglund@> > wrote: > > > > > > Does he notice the food when you drop it in and just ignore it? Mine > > > will chase food that I drop in, but he ignores anything that floats on > > > the surface mostly. He seems to prefer foods that sink. I feed mine > > > omega one sinking shrimp pellets, I also feed frozen foods (brine > > > shrimp, mysis shrimp, and their favorite bloodworms), not sure if your > > > walmart will have frozen foods, but they are the best to get for your > > > fishy. If they do not and you need to get freeze dried food > instead make > > > sure you rehydrate it in a little cup of water for a good 30 > seconds or > > > more to soak up some water before you give it to your betta, they can > > > become easily constipated so it's best to feed them well hydrated > foods > > > just to be safe. > > > I also make my own jello fish food as well, and he gets little > chunks of > > > it every now and then (it has mostly frozen fish/shrimp, frozen > veggies, > > > and some left over flake foods), I did no have liquid vitamins and > such > > > on hand to add to the mix this last time, they don't sell them in town > > > so I have to order it. But I figure my homemade food can't be any > worse > > > than some of the flake foods out there ;) > > > > > > Amber > > > > > > Kathy wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > Thanks for the links, Steve! I'll check them out. Gosh, I need to > > > > think of a name for him. Don't know what to call him. It'll come > to me > > > > though. > > > > LOL now he's showing off and acting all macho for his own > reflection. > > > > They sure are fun to watch! > > > > So if he doesn't take the BettaMin (I'v decided to give him a > few days > > > > on that and see if he takes it when he is more comfortable with me), > > > > what should I buy to feed him? And does time of day make any > > > > difference in how eager he is to eat? > > > > -Kathy > > > > > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>, "Steve Szabo" <steve@> > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > First, you are entering the wild, crazy, wonderful world of > bettas. > > > > Take a > > > > > look here for just some of the color types you can see in bettas > > > > (meaning > > > > > _Betta splendens_, we'll forgo the 60 or so "wild" types of > bettas). > > > > Take a > > > > > look at some of the more common color types here, > > > > > http://www.bettatalk.com/betta_colors.htm. > <http://www.bettatalk.com/betta_colors.htm.> > > > > <http://www.bettatalk.com/betta_colors.htm. > <http://www.bettatalk.com/betta_colors.htm.>> I do note a gross > > > > exception on > > > > > this page, and that is the pastels. Oh, well, I guess you > can't get > > > > > everything all at once. > > > > > > > > > > Then, of course, you have tail types to consider, which are listed > > here: > > > > > > > > > > > > http://www.associatedcontent.com/article/433417/overview_of_betta_fish_tail_ > <http://www.associatedcontent.com/article/433417/overview_of_betta_fish_tail_> > > > > > > > > > <http://www.associatedcontent.com/article/433417/overview_of_betta_fish_tail > <http://www.associatedcontent.com/article/433417/overview_of_betta_fish_tail> > > _> > > > > > types_and.html?cat=53 > > > > > http://tinyurl.com/yku2rrp <http://tinyurl.com/yku2rrp> > <http://tinyurl.com/yku2rrp <http://tinyurl.com/yku2rrp>> > > > > > > > > > > This will give you some reading for the weekend, and, of course, > > > > there is > > > > > your friend, Google, to lead you to even more information on > bettas. > > > > > > > > > > \\Steve// > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On > > > > > Behalf Of Kathy > > > > > Sent: Saturday, October 31, 2009 12:01 PM > > > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: New betta > > > > > > > > > > Thanks, Kai. > > > > > There's a bit of a problem. He apparently doesn't like Tetra > > > > > BettaMin > > > > > flakes. He won't eat them. I'm pretty sure he's hungry cause he's > > > > showing > > > > > hunting behaviors, he's gotten really active and seems like he's > > > > looking for > > > > > something (I've seen the exact same behavior in my snake when he's > > > > hungry, > > > > > isnt' it weird how two animals so different can act so similar!), > > > > > but > > he > > > > > still won't eat the BettaMin. And I won't be able to get back to > > WalMart > > > > > until Monday (that's when my friend is taking me to get some > general > > > > > shopping done), unless I can sweet talk the people who are > giving me > > > > a ride > > > > > to church tomorrow into taking me there to pick up some better > betta > > > > food. > > > > > And I don't want to seem greedy about rides, I probabaly wouldn't > > > > ask cause > > > > > I'd feel like I was taking advantage of them. But anyway, what > do I > > feed > > > > > him instead of BettaMin? > > > > > I was shocked to see so many bicolor bettas--I had thought > they were > > > > solid! > > > > > At least they were when I was a kid. I grew up on class pets of > > > > > either > > > > > solid red or solid blue bettas, because we couldn't have > anything in > > the > > > > > classroom with fur or feathers. But this guy is a mix of red and > > > > > blue. > > > > > There was a pink and iridescent white one (he looked like an opal) > > > > that I > > > > > liked a lot but he didn't look as healthy as my little guy. > > > > > Anyway, advice on what to feed him would be appreciated! I can > tell > > he's > > > > > hungry, but he seems to be a picky eater! > > > > > -Kathy > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>, "kuradi8" <kuradi8@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > "Their stomachs are about the size of their eyes." What a > perfect > > > > way to > > > > > explain it! Especially to kids! (And seniors like my Mom.) > > > > > > > > > > > > Enjoy your Betta. I love mine. They have so much > personality! Chow > > > > Mein > > > > > and Sweet-and-Sour are here in my office. Of course in individual > > tanks! > > > > > And Kala ("Fish") is downstairs with Mom. Kala is also red and > blue > > and > > > > > also from Walmart. Twins? :o) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Basically, as long as you're comfortable, your Betta will be > too. > > Keep > > > > > him out of the sun and away from anything that can vary his > water's > > > > > temperature. > > > > > > > > > > > > Each of my tanks has a small potted aquatic plant. I used small > > > > plastic > > > > > party cups with sand and a layer of gravel on top. To clean the > > > > tank, I use > > > > > a length of air line hose rubber-banded to a long chopstick so > I can > > > > vacuum > > > > > the bottom without having to stick my hand in the water. > > > > > > ~Kai > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>, "Kathy" <kl_whitney@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Ok thanks Amber. My room's pretty stable, my suitemates > keep the > > > > > thermostat for our suite at 76ish. And I don't argue, cause > they're > > all > > > > > thin and have less.....insulation than I do. Some days I feel > like > > > > > I'm > > > > > burning up from the heat in the room, but I figure if they're > > > > comfortable > > > > > I'd better not argue. And the only reason it feels hot to me > is that > > my > > > > > parents kept the house at 68 all the winter's I've lived with > them. > > > > > > > I'll feed him in the morning. They got the fish shippment > > yesterday, > > > > > but I had an evening class and it snowed all afternoon so > yesterday > > > > would've > > > > > been a really bad day to get him. So he may have gone without > food > > > > > for > > > > > several days. Their stomachs are about the size of their eyes, > > > > right? So I > > > > > make sure the amount of food is about the same size as his eye if > > > > you put it > > > > > all together? That's a tiny pinch, but I can figure it out. > > > > > > > -Kathy > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>, Amber Berglund <arberglund@> > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 73 degrees should be just fine for him, as long as your room > > > > temps do > > > > > > > > not flucuate more than 3 degrees through a 24 hour period. > > > > > > > > Did you ask when the store fed him last, or if they fed him > > > > when he > > > > > > > > arrived? Most likely they did not feed him yet if you just > > > > picked him > > > > > up > > > > > > > > after the shipment arrived. > > > > > > > > If you are uncertain feed him a small meal (betta's do > not eat > > > > very > > > > > much > > > > > > > > at all, just feed him a couple of tiny pellets or a > little bit > > of > > > > > > > > crushed flake food), if you're uncertain how much to > feed just > > > > start > > > > > out > > > > > > > > small and if he eats it in less than a few seconds you might > > > > be able > > > > > to > > > > > > > > get away with feeding a little more. I feed my betta every > > > > other day > > > > > and > > > > > > > > he doesn't seem to be unhealthy from it, some days I > feed him > > > > on his > > > > > > > > normal "off day" too, so he doesn't have too many breaks in > > > > between > > > > > meals. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Amber > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Kathy wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Hi all, > > > > > > > > > Just got back from Walmart with a new betta about an hour > > > > ago. He's > > > > > > > > > red and blue (will post a pic as soon as I get a camera). > > > > I've been > > > > > > > > > slowly getting him used to the bowl water, and just about > > > > > > > > > five > > > > > minutes > > > > > > > > > ago I let him free in the bowl. Now he's exploring. Two > > > > questions: > > > > > > > > > When do I give him his first meal? AND Is 73 degrees too > > > > cool for > > > > > him? > > > > > > > > > That's what my thermometer is reading. > > > > > > > > > -Kathy > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ------------------------------------ > > > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, > Thank You. > > ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> > > PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT > important to > > the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the > > SUBJECT > > LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- > > <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. > > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. > > > > If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of > unsubscribing, you > > can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My Membership" > on the > > home page. > > > > Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:aquaticlife-digest%40yahoogroups.com> to receive the digest, which > > includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email > > > > Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:aquaticlife-nomail%40yahoogroups.com> for the No E-Mail option > where > > you will still be able to read messages on the group and post replies. > > > > Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:aquaticlife-normal%40yahoogroups.com> to receive individual > > e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > ------------------------------------ > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. > ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> > PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT > important to > the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the > SUBJECT > LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- > <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. > > If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of unsubscribing, > you > can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My Membership" on > the > home page. > > Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:aquaticlife-digest%40yahoogroups.com> to receive the digest, > which > includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email > > Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:aquaticlife-nomail%40yahoogroups.com> for the No E-Mail option > where > you will still be able to read messages on the group and post replies. > > Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:aquaticlife-normal%40yahoogroups.com> to receive individual > e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 44150	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 11/1/2009
Subject: Re: New betta

Kai, You need to visit different ethnic restaurants. _Betta splendens_ is native to Cambodia, Laos, Thailand, and Vietnam. More appropriate names, off the menus, would be something like these (using just fish dishes): Cambodian: Avocat Kanthor Trey Tuk Peng Pah Trey Ang Laotian: Sorry, I wasn't able to find a Laotian restaurant using Laotian dish names Thai: PLAR LAAD PRIK HOH MOK Vietnamese: Al kinds of Pho, a noodle soup Hu Teiu My Tho Bun Oc \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of kuradi8 Sent: Sunday, November 01, 2009 7:35 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: New betta My Bettas don't care for the flakes either -- but they'll eat them if they get hungry enough. They like the "Granules" better. Also TetraMin brand -- with the dark green color coded cap. The stuff with the green cap is tough to find around here but my Walmart carries Wardley and other brands of granules so maybe yours will too. Sweet-and-Sour is a solid orange colored veil tail. (I read somewhere that orange is a hard color to breed.) And Chow Mein is a triple-double-tail crowntail. His fringe forks once, twice and then many of them fork a third time right at the tips. He's navy, royal and teal but comes out green in photographs. And don't worry, he'll eventually name himself. Mine have all had names off the Chinese take-out menu. ~Kai --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Kathy" <kl_whitney@...> wrote: > > Thanks, Kai. > There's a bit of a problem. He apparently doesn't like Tetra BettaMin flakes. He won't eat them. I'm pretty sure he's hungry cause he's showing hunting behaviors, he's gotten really active and seems like he's looking for something (I've seen the exact same behavior in my snake when he's hungry, isnt' it weird how two animals so different can act so similar!), but he still won't eat the BettaMin. And I won't be able to get back to WalMart until Monday (that's when my friend is taking me to get some general shopping done), unless I can sweet talk the people who are giving me a ride to church tomorrow into taking me there to pick up some better betta food. And I don't want to seem greedy about rides, I probabaly wouldn't ask cause I'd feel like I was taking advantage of them. But anyway, what do I feed him instead of BettaMin? > I was shocked to see so many bicolor bettas--I had thought they were solid! At least they were when I was a kid. I grew up on class pets of either solid red or solid blue bettas, because we couldn't have anything in the classroom with fur or feathers. But this guy is a mix of red and blue. There was a pink and iridescent white one (he looked like an opal) that I liked a lot but he didn't look as healthy as my little guy. > Anyway, advice on what to feed him would be appreciated! I can tell he's hungry, but he seems to be a picky eater! > -Kathy > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "kuradi8" <kuradi8@> wrote: > > > > "Their stomachs are about the size of their eyes." What a perfect way to explain it! Especially to kids! (And seniors like my Mom.) > > > > Enjoy your Betta. I love mine. They have so much personality! Chow Mein and Sweet-and-Sour are here in my office. Of course in individual tanks! And Kala ("Fish") is downstairs with Mom. Kala is also red and blue and also from Walmart. Twins? :o) > > > > Basically, as long as you're comfortable, your Betta will be too. Keep him out of the sun and away from anything that can vary his water's temperature. > > > > Each of my tanks has a small potted aquatic plant. I used small plastic party cups with sand and a layer of gravel on top. To clean the tank, I use a length of air line hose rubber-banded to a long chopstick so I can vacuum the bottom without having to stick my hand in the water. > > ~Kai > > > > > > > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Kathy" <kl_whitney@> wrote: > > > > > > Ok thanks Amber. My room's pretty stable, my suitemates keep the thermostat for our suite at 76ish. And I don't argue, cause they're all thin and have less.....insulation than I do. Some days I feel like I'm burning up from the heat in the room, but I figure if they're comfortable I'd better not argue. And the only reason it feels hot to me is that my parents kept the house at 68 all the winter's I've lived with them. > > > I'll feed him in the morning. They got the fish shippment yesterday, but I had an evening class and it snowed all afternoon so yesterday would've been a really bad day to get him. So he may have gone without food for several days. Their stomachs are about the size of their eyes, right? So I make sure the amount of food is about the same size as his eye if you put it all together? That's a tiny pinch, but I can figure it out. > > > -Kathy > > > > > > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, Amber Berglund <arberglund@> wrote: > > > > > > > > 73 degrees should be just fine for him, as long as your room temps do > > > > not flucuate more than 3 degrees through a 24 hour period. > > > > Did you ask when the store fed him last, or if they fed him when he > > > > arrived? Most likely they did not feed him yet if you just picked him up > > > > after the shipment arrived. > > > > If you are uncertain feed him a small meal (betta's do not eat very much > > > > at all, just feed him a couple of tiny pellets or a little bit of > > > > crushed flake food), if you're uncertain how much to feed just start out > > > > small and if he eats it in less than a few seconds you might be able to > > > > get away with feeding a little more. I feed my betta every other day and > > > > he doesn't seem to be unhealthy from it, some days I feed him on his > > > > normal "off day" too, so he doesn't have too many breaks in between meals. > > > > > > > > Amber > > > > > > > > Kathy wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Hi all, > > > > > Just got back from Walmart with a new betta about an hour ago. He's > > > > > red and blue (will post a pic as soon as I get a camera). I've been > > > > > slowly getting him used to the bowl water, and just about five minutes > > > > > ago I let him free in the bowl. Now he's exploring. Two questions: > > > > > When do I give him his first meal? AND Is 73 degrees too cool for him? > > > > > That's what my thermometer is reading. > > > > > -Kathy > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ------------------------------------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the home page. Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com to receive the digest, which includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com for the No E-Mail option where you will still be able to read messages on the group and post replies. Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com to receive individual e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 44151	From: Dora Smith	Date: 11/1/2009
Subject: Re: New betta

I'm talking about the things with bulb-like widening in one end, and you squeeze them to take up or discharge liquid - not the syringes, that you have to pull back or push a plunger. This size wuold definitely do the job. http://www.hometrainingtools.com/pipet-disposable-5-ml-10-pk/p/CE-PIPET/ Yours, Dora Smith Austin, TX tiggernut24@... ----- Original Message ----- From: "Amber Berglund" <arberglund@...> To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Sunday, November 01, 2009 11:48 AM Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: New betta > You can get pipettes from any place that sells bird hand feeding > supplies. Check on drsfostersmith.com under their bird menu and feeding > supplies, they have lots of stuff to hand feed baby birds with. I have > bought them from fostersmith in the past when I was still raising sun > conures. > > Amber > > Dora Smith wrote: >> >> >> I thaw the bloodworms, and put in a little water (dechlorinated, even >> from >> the bowl), and feed with a plastic pipette. Unfortunately you probably >> have to send away to a home science supply place for some pipettes, >> unless >> you're in a science class and the lab will let you have a couple, but >> they're likley to only have glass ones. >> >> Pipettes come in handy for measuring out your dechlorinators and such as >> well. >> >> You want a relatively large plastic pipette - 3 ml - with part of an end >> snipped off - for feeding bloodworms and other animules. >> >> Yours, >> Dora Smith >> Austin, TX >> tiggernut24@... <mailto:tiggernut24%40yahoo.com> >> ----- Original Message ----- >> From: "Kathy" <kl_whitney@... <mailto:kl_whitney%40yahoo.com>> >> To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>> >> Sent: Saturday, October 31, 2009 5:13 PM >> Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: New betta >> >> Ok, thanks for letting me know. Would it be better to feed him dried >> bloodworms with tweezers while wearing rubber gloves? I have both, though >> the tweezers are supposed to be for shaping my eyebrows ;) and the gloves >> are the kind you wash dishes or clean bathrooms with. The gloves are >> clean, >> brand new, but the tweezers would need a washing before I used them to >> feed >> Pisces because I've been using them to shape my eyebrows. >> -Kathy >> >> --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com >> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>, "Steve Szabo" <steve@...> wrote: >> > >> > Kathy, >> > >> > Bloodworms are problematic, not from the fish's point of view, but >> yours. >> > Many people have allergies to the bloodworms and can break out in a >> rash >> > or >> > worse from them. People who have no allergies to them can become >> allergic >> > over time. I would stay away from the freeze dried stuff. The frozen or >> > live >> > worms do not seem to carry the same effects. >> > >> > You mentioned snow in an earlier post. Were you the one dreaming of a >> > white >> > Halloween? >> > >> > \\Steve// >> > >> > >> > -----Original Message----- >> > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com >> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> >> [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com >> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On >> > Behalf Of Kathy >> > Sent: Saturday, October 31, 2009 5:49 PM >> > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> >> > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: New betta >> > >> > Well, he seemed to ignore it when I put it in there. Should I try again >> > when he's paying attention to the surface? Is it possible to get >> > bloodworms >> > dehydrated and in a jar, so that I don't have to keep them frozen? That >> > would be a lot more convenient. >> > -Kathy >> > >> > >> > >> > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com >> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>, Amber Berglund <arberglund@> >> wrote: >> > > >> > > Does he notice the food when you drop it in and just ignore it? Mine >> > > will chase food that I drop in, but he ignores anything that floats >> > > on >> > > the surface mostly. He seems to prefer foods that sink. I feed mine >> > > omega one sinking shrimp pellets, I also feed frozen foods (brine >> > > shrimp, mysis shrimp, and their favorite bloodworms), not sure if >> > > your >> > > walmart will have frozen foods, but they are the best to get for your >> > > fishy. If they do not and you need to get freeze dried food >> instead make >> > > sure you rehydrate it in a little cup of water for a good 30 >> seconds or >> > > more to soak up some water before you give it to your betta, they can >> > > become easily constipated so it's best to feed them well hydrated >> foods >> > > just to be safe. >> > > I also make my own jello fish food as well, and he gets little >> chunks of >> > > it every now and then (it has mostly frozen fish/shrimp, frozen >> veggies, >> > > and some left over flake foods), I did no have liquid vitamins and >> such >> > > on hand to add to the mix this last time, they don't sell them in >> > > town >> > > so I have to order it. But I figure my homemade food can't be any >> worse >> > > than some of the flake foods out there ;) >> > > >> > > Amber >> > > >> > > Kathy wrote: >> > > > >> > > > >> > > > Thanks for the links, Steve! I'll check them out. Gosh, I need to >> > > > think of a name for him. Don't know what to call him. It'll come >> to me >> > > > though. >> > > > LOL now he's showing off and acting all macho for his own >> reflection. >> > > > They sure are fun to watch! >> > > > So if he doesn't take the BettaMin (I'v decided to give him a >> few days >> > > > on that and see if he takes it when he is more comfortable with >> > > > me), >> > > > what should I buy to feed him? And does time of day make any >> > > > difference in how eager he is to eat? >> > > > -Kathy >> > > > >> > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com >> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> >> > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>, "Steve Szabo" <steve@> >> wrote: >> > > > > >> > > > > First, you are entering the wild, crazy, wonderful world of >> bettas. >> > > > Take a >> > > > > look here for just some of the color types you can see in bettas >> > > > (meaning >> > > > > _Betta splendens_, we'll forgo the 60 or so "wild" types of >> bettas). >> > > > Take a >> > > > > look at some of the more common color types here, >> > > > > http://www.bettatalk.com/betta_colors.htm. >> <http://www.bettatalk.com/betta_colors.htm.> >> > > > <http://www.bettatalk.com/betta_colors.htm. >> <http://www.bettatalk.com/betta_colors.htm.>> I do note a gross >> > > > exception on >> > > > > this page, and that is the pastels. Oh, well, I guess you >> can't get >> > > > > everything all at once. >> > > > > >> > > > > Then, of course, you have tail types to consider, which are >> > > > > listed >> > here: >> > > > > >> > > > >> > >> http://www.associatedcontent.com/article/433417/overview_of_betta_fish_tail_ >> <http://www.associatedcontent.com/article/433417/overview_of_betta_fish_tail_> >> > >> > > > >> > >> <http://www.associatedcontent.com/article/433417/overview_of_betta_fish_tail >> <http://www.associatedcontent.com/article/433417/overview_of_betta_fish_tail> >> > _> >> > > > > types_and.html?cat=53 >> > > > > http://tinyurl.com/yku2rrp <http://tinyurl.com/yku2rrp> >> <http://tinyurl.com/yku2rrp <http://tinyurl.com/yku2rrp>> >> > > > > >> > > > > This will give you some reading for the weekend, and, of course, >> > > > there is >> > > > > your friend, Google, to lead you to even more information on >> bettas. >> > > > > >> > > > > \\Steve// >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > -----Original Message----- >> > > > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com >> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> >> > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> >> > > > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com >> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> >> > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On >> > > > > Behalf Of Kathy >> > > > > Sent: Saturday, October 31, 2009 12:01 PM >> > > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com >> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> >> > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> >> > > > > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: New betta >> > > > > >> > > > > Thanks, Kai. >> > > > > There's a bit of a problem. He apparently doesn't like Tetra >> > > > > BettaMin >> > > > > flakes. He won't eat them. I'm pretty sure he's hungry cause he's >> > > > showing >> > > > > hunting behaviors, he's gotten really active and seems like he's >> > > > looking for >> > > > > something (I've seen the exact same behavior in my snake when >> > > > > he's >> > > > hungry, >> > > > > isnt' it weird how two animals so different can act so similar!), >> > > > > but >> > he >> > > > > still won't eat the BettaMin. And I won't be able to get back to >> > WalMart >> > > > > until Monday (that's when my friend is taking me to get some >> general >> > > > > shopping done), unless I can sweet talk the people who are >> giving me >> > > > a ride >> > > > > to church tomorrow into taking me there to pick up some better >> betta >> > > > food. >> > > > > And I don't want to seem greedy about rides, I probabaly wouldn't >> > > > ask cause >> > > > > I'd feel like I was taking advantage of them. But anyway, what >> do I >> > feed >> > > > > him instead of BettaMin? >> > > > > I was shocked to see so many bicolor bettas--I had thought >> they were >> > > > solid! >> > > > > At least they were when I was a kid. I grew up on class pets of >> > > > > either >> > > > > solid red or solid blue bettas, because we couldn't have >> anything in >> > the >> > > > > classroom with fur or feathers. But this guy is a mix of red and >> > > > > blue. >> > > > > There was a pink and iridescent white one (he looked like an >> > > > > opal) >> > > > that I >> > > > > liked a lot but he didn't look as healthy as my little guy. >> > > > > Anyway, advice on what to feed him would be appreciated! I can >> tell >> > he's >> > > > > hungry, but he seems to be a picky eater! >> > > > > -Kathy >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com >> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> >> > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>, "kuradi8" <kuradi8@> wrote: >> > > > > > >> > > > > > "Their stomachs are about the size of their eyes." What a >> perfect >> > > > way to >> > > > > explain it! Especially to kids! (And seniors like my Mom.) >> > > > > > >> > > > > > Enjoy your Betta. I love mine. They have so much >> personality! Chow >> > > > Mein >> > > > > and Sweet-and-Sour are here in my office. Of course in individual >> > tanks! >> > > > > And Kala ("Fish") is downstairs with Mom. Kala is also red and >> blue >> > and >> > > > > also from Walmart. Twins? :o) >> > > > > >> > > > > > >> > > > > > Basically, as long as you're comfortable, your Betta will be >> too. >> > Keep >> > > > > him out of the sun and away from anything that can vary his >> water's >> > > > > temperature. >> > > > > > >> > > > > > Each of my tanks has a small potted aquatic plant. I used small >> > > > plastic >> > > > > party cups with sand and a layer of gravel on top. To clean the >> > > > tank, I use >> > > > > a length of air line hose rubber-banded to a long chopstick so >> I can >> > > > vacuum >> > > > > the bottom without having to stick my hand in the water. >> > > > > > ~Kai >> > > > > > >> > > > > > >> > > > > > >> > > > > > >> > > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com >> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> >> > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>, "Kathy" <kl_whitney@> >> > > > wrote: >> > > > > > > >> > > > > > > Ok thanks Amber. My room's pretty stable, my suitemates >> keep the >> > > > > thermostat for our suite at 76ish. And I don't argue, cause >> they're >> > all >> > > > > thin and have less.....insulation than I do. Some days I feel >> like >> > > > > I'm >> > > > > burning up from the heat in the room, but I figure if they're >> > > > comfortable >> > > > > I'd better not argue. And the only reason it feels hot to me >> is that >> > my >> > > > > parents kept the house at 68 all the winter's I've lived with >> them. >> > > > > > > I'll feed him in the morning. They got the fish shippment >> > yesterday, >> > > > > but I had an evening class and it snowed all afternoon so >> yesterday >> > > > would've >> > > > > been a really bad day to get him. So he may have gone without >> food >> > > > > for >> > > > > several days. Their stomachs are about the size of their eyes, >> > > > right? So I >> > > > > make sure the amount of food is about the same size as his eye if >> > > > you put it >> > > > > all together? That's a tiny pinch, but I can figure it out. >> > > > > > > -Kathy >> > > > > > > >> > > > > > > >> > > > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com >> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> >> > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>, Amber Berglund >> > > > <arberglund@> >> > > > wrote: >> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > 73 degrees should be just fine for him, as long as your >> > > > > > > > room >> > > > temps do >> > > > > > > > not flucuate more than 3 degrees through a 24 hour period. >> > > > > > > > Did you ask when the store fed him last, or if they fed him >> > > > when he >> > > > > > > > arrived? Most likely they did not feed him yet if you just >> > > > picked him >> > > > > up >> > > > > > > > after the shipment arrived. >> > > > > > > > If you are uncertain feed him a small meal (betta's do >> not eat >> > > > very >> > > > > much >> > > > > > > > at all, just feed him a couple of tiny pellets or a >> little bit >> > of >> > > > > > > > crushed flake food), if you're uncertain how much to >> feed just >> > > > start >> > > > > out >> > > > > > > > small and if he eats it in less than a few seconds you >> > > > > > > > might >> > > > be able >> > > > > to >> > > > > > > > get away with feeding a little more. I feed my betta every >> > > > other day >> > > > > and >> > > > > > > > he doesn't seem to be unhealthy from it, some days I >> feed him >> > > > on his >> > > > > > > > normal "off day" too, so he doesn't have too many breaks in >> > > > between >> > > > > meals. >> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > Amber >> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > Kathy wrote: >> > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > Hi all, >> > > > > > > > > Just got back from Walmart with a new betta about an hour >> > > > ago. He's >> > > > > > > > > red and blue (will post a pic as soon as I get a camera). >> > > > I've been >> > > > > > > > > slowly getting him used to the bowl water, and just about >> > > > > > > > > five >> > > > > minutes >> > > > > > > > > ago I let him free in the bowl. Now he's exploring. Two >> > > > questions: >> > > > > > > > > When do I give him his first meal? AND Is 73 degrees too >> > > > cool for >> > > > > him? >> > > > > > > > > That's what my thermometer is reading. >> > > > > > > > > -Kathy >> > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > >> > > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > >> > > > >> > > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > ------------------------------------ >> > >> > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, >> Thank You. >> > ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , >> > .·´¯`·..><((((º> >> > PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT >> important to >> > the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the >> > SUBJECT >> > LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- >> > <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. >> > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. >> > >> > If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of >> unsubscribing, you >> > can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My Membership" >> on the >> > home page. >> > >> > Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com >> <mailto:aquaticlife-digest%40yahoogroups.com> to receive the digest, >> which >> > includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email >> > >> > Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com >> <mailto:aquaticlife-nomail%40yahoogroups.com> for the No E-Mail option >> where >> > you will still be able to read messages on the group and post replies. >> > >> > Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com >> <mailto:aquaticlife-normal%40yahoogroups.com> to receive individual >> > e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links >> > >> >> ------------------------------------ >> >> Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank >> You. >> ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> >> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT >> important to >> the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the >> SUBJECT >> LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- >> <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. >> We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. >> >> If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of unsubscribing, >> you >> can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My Membership" on >> the >> home page. >> >> Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com >> <mailto:aquaticlife-digest%40yahoogroups.com> to receive the digest, >> which >> includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email >> >> Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com >> <mailto:aquaticlife-nomail%40yahoogroups.com> for the No E-Mail option >> where >> you will still be able to read messages on the group and post replies. >> >> Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com >> <mailto:aquaticlife-normal%40yahoogroups.com> to receive individual >> e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links >> >> > > > ------------------------------------ > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. > ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> > PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to > the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the > SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- > <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. > > If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of unsubscribing, you > can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the > home page. > > Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com to receive the digest, which > includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email > > Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com for the No E-Mail option where > you will still be able to read messages on the group and post replies. > > Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com to receive individual > e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links > > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 44152	From: Ldyminx	Date: 11/1/2009
Subject: Fluval 305 issues

Was just given a used Fluval 305, cleaned it out (it was pretty hideous) and reassembled, now it makes a horrendous gurgling sound! I have two others of the very same make and haven't had this prob before. Closed the valves, took off the top, cleaned out the three baskets that were pretty much filled with solid gunk, washed out and replaced the foam filters, reassembled, reattached pipes, and started pumping out the air and started it back up. It's not pumping in water and although the directions always say don't start pump with water already in it I'm wondering ikf I should give it a try. What's the groups general consensus? Frustrated with filters, Chris in Northern VA

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 44153	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 11/1/2009
Subject: Re: New betta

They had those on drsfostersmith.com years ago, not sure if they still do, those were the kind I actually bought, a big bag full of them. I think I still have some around somewhere, LOL. Amber Dora Smith wrote: > > > I'm talking about the things with bulb-like widening in one end, and you > squeeze them to take up or discharge liquid - not the syringes, that you > have to pull back or push a plunger. > > This size wuold definitely do the job. > > http://www.hometrainingtools.com/pipet-disposable-5-ml-10-pk/p/CE-PIPET/ > <http://www.hometrainingtools.com/pipet-disposable-5-ml-10-pk/p/CE-PIPET/> > > Yours, > Dora Smith > Austin, TX > tiggernut24@... <mailto:tiggernut24%40yahoo.com> > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Amber Berglund" <arberglund@... > <mailto:arberglund%40gmail.com>> > To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>> > Sent: Sunday, November 01, 2009 11:48 AM > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: New betta > > > You can get pipettes from any place that sells bird hand feeding > > supplies. Check on drsfostersmith.com under their bird menu and feeding > > supplies, they have lots of stuff to hand feed baby birds with. I have > > bought them from fostersmith in the past when I was still raising sun > > conures. > > > > Amber > > > > Dora Smith wrote: > >> > >> > >> I thaw the bloodworms, and put in a little water (dechlorinated, even > >> from > >> the bowl), and feed with a plastic pipette. Unfortunately you probably > >> have to send away to a home science supply place for some pipettes, > >> unless > >> you're in a science class and the lab will let you have a couple, but > >> they're likley to only have glass ones. > >> > >> Pipettes come in handy for measuring out your dechlorinators and > such as > >> well. > >> > >> You want a relatively large plastic pipette - 3 ml - with part of > an end > >> snipped off - for feeding bloodworms and other animules. > >> > >> Yours, > >> Dora Smith > >> Austin, TX > >> tiggernut24@... <mailto:tiggernut24%40yahoo.com> > <mailto:tiggernut24%40yahoo.com> > >> ----- Original Message ----- > >> From: "Kathy" <kl_whitney@... <mailto:kl_whitney%40yahoo.com> > <mailto:kl_whitney%40yahoo.com>> > >> To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>> > >> Sent: Saturday, October 31, 2009 5:13 PM > >> Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: New betta > >> > >> Ok, thanks for letting me know. Would it be better to feed him dried > >> bloodworms with tweezers while wearing rubber gloves? I have both, > though > >> the tweezers are supposed to be for shaping my eyebrows ;) and the > gloves > >> are the kind you wash dishes or clean bathrooms with. The gloves are > >> clean, > >> brand new, but the tweezers would need a washing before I used them to > >> feed > >> Pisces because I've been using them to shape my eyebrows. > >> -Kathy > >> > >> --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > >> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>, "Steve Szabo" <steve@...> > wrote: > >> > > >> > Kathy, > >> > > >> > Bloodworms are problematic, not from the fish's point of view, but > >> yours. > >> > Many people have allergies to the bloodworms and can break out in a > >> rash > >> > or > >> > worse from them. People who have no allergies to them can become > >> allergic > >> > over time. I would stay away from the freeze dried stuff. The > frozen or > >> > live > >> > worms do not seem to carry the same effects. > >> > > >> > You mentioned snow in an earlier post. Were you the one dreaming of a > >> > white > >> > Halloween? > >> > > >> > \\Steve// > >> > > >> > > >> > -----Original Message----- > >> > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > >> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > >> [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > >> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On > >> > Behalf Of Kathy > >> > Sent: Saturday, October 31, 2009 5:49 PM > >> > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > >> > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: New betta > >> > > >> > Well, he seemed to ignore it when I put it in there. Should I try > again > >> > when he's paying attention to the surface? Is it possible to get > >> > bloodworms > >> > dehydrated and in a jar, so that I don't have to keep them > frozen? That > >> > would be a lot more convenient. > >> > -Kathy > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > >> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>, Amber Berglund <arberglund@> > >> wrote: > >> > > > >> > > Does he notice the food when you drop it in and just ignore it? > Mine > >> > > will chase food that I drop in, but he ignores anything that > floats > >> > > on > >> > > the surface mostly. He seems to prefer foods that sink. I feed mine > >> > > omega one sinking shrimp pellets, I also feed frozen foods (brine > >> > > shrimp, mysis shrimp, and their favorite bloodworms), not sure if > >> > > your > >> > > walmart will have frozen foods, but they are the best to get > for your > >> > > fishy. If they do not and you need to get freeze dried food > >> instead make > >> > > sure you rehydrate it in a little cup of water for a good 30 > >> seconds or > >> > > more to soak up some water before you give it to your betta, > they can > >> > > become easily constipated so it's best to feed them well hydrated > >> foods > >> > > just to be safe. > >> > > I also make my own jello fish food as well, and he gets little > >> chunks of > >> > > it every now and then (it has mostly frozen fish/shrimp, frozen > >> veggies, > >> > > and some left over flake foods), I did no have liquid vitamins and > >> such > >> > > on hand to add to the mix this last time, they don't sell them in > >> > > town > >> > > so I have to order it. But I figure my homemade food can't be any > >> worse > >> > > than some of the flake foods out there ;) > >> > > > >> > > Amber > >> > > > >> > > Kathy wrote: > >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > Thanks for the links, Steve! I'll check them out. Gosh, I need to > >> > > > think of a name for him. Don't know what to call him. It'll come > >> to me > >> > > > though. > >> > > > LOL now he's showing off and acting all macho for his own > >> reflection. > >> > > > They sure are fun to watch! > >> > > > So if he doesn't take the BettaMin (I'v decided to give him a > >> few days > >> > > > on that and see if he takes it when he is more comfortable with > >> > > > me), > >> > > > what should I buy to feed him? And does time of day make any > >> > > > difference in how eager he is to eat? > >> > > > -Kathy > >> > > > > >> > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > >> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > >> > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>, "Steve Szabo" <steve@> > >> wrote: > >> > > > > > >> > > > > First, you are entering the wild, crazy, wonderful world of > >> bettas. > >> > > > Take a > >> > > > > look here for just some of the color types you can see in > bettas > >> > > > (meaning > >> > > > > _Betta splendens_, we'll forgo the 60 or so "wild" types of > >> bettas). > >> > > > Take a > >> > > > > look at some of the more common color types here, > >> > > > > http://www.bettatalk.com/betta_colors.htm. > <http://www.bettatalk.com/betta_colors.htm.> > >> <http://www.bettatalk.com/betta_colors.htm. > <http://www.bettatalk.com/betta_colors.htm.>> > >> > > > <http://www.bettatalk.com/betta_colors.htm. > <http://www.bettatalk.com/betta_colors.htm.> > >> <http://www.bettatalk.com/betta_colors.htm. > <http://www.bettatalk.com/betta_colors.htm.>>> I do note a gross > >> > > > exception on > >> > > > > this page, and that is the pastels. Oh, well, I guess you > >> can't get > >> > > > > everything all at once. > >> > > > > > >> > > > > Then, of course, you have tail types to consider, which are > >> > > > > listed > >> > here: > >> > > > > > >> > > > > >> > > >> > http://www.associatedcontent.com/article/433417/overview_of_betta_fish_tail_ > <http://www.associatedcontent.com/article/433417/overview_of_betta_fish_tail_> > >> > <http://www.associatedcontent.com/article/433417/overview_of_betta_fish_tail_ > <http://www.associatedcontent.com/article/433417/overview_of_betta_fish_tail_>> > >> > > >> > > > > >> > > >> > <http://www.associatedcontent.com/article/433417/overview_of_betta_fish_tail > <http://www.associatedcontent.com/article/433417/overview_of_betta_fish_tail> > >> > <http://www.associatedcontent.com/article/433417/overview_of_betta_fish_tail > <http://www.associatedcontent.com/article/433417/overview_of_betta_fish_tail>> > >> > _> > >> > > > > types_and.html?cat=53 > >> > > > > http://tinyurl.com/yku2rrp <http://tinyurl.com/yku2rrp> > <http://tinyurl.com/yku2rrp <http://tinyurl.com/yku2rrp>> > >> <http://tinyurl.com/yku2rrp <http://tinyurl.com/yku2rrp> > <http://tinyurl.com/yku2rrp <http://tinyurl.com/yku2rrp>>> > >> > > > > > >> > > > > This will give you some reading for the weekend, and, of > course, > >> > > > there is > >> > > > > your friend, Google, to lead you to even more information on > >> bettas. > >> > > > > > >> > > > > \\Steve// > >> > > > > > >> > > > > > >> > > > > -----Original Message----- > >> > > > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > >> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > >> > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > >> > > > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > >> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > >> > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On > >> > > > > Behalf Of Kathy > >> > > > > Sent: Saturday, October 31, 2009 12:01 PM > >> > > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > >> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > >> > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > >> > > > > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: New betta > >> > > > > > >> > > > > Thanks, Kai. > >> > > > > There's a bit of a problem. He apparently doesn't like Tetra > >> > > > > BettaMin > >> > > > > flakes. He won't eat them. I'm pretty sure he's hungry > cause he's > >> > > > showing > >> > > > > hunting behaviors, he's gotten really active and seems like > he's > >> > > > looking for > >> > > > > something (I've seen the exact same behavior in my snake when > >> > > > > he's > >> > > > hungry, > >> > > > > isnt' it weird how two animals so different can act so > similar!), > >> > > > > but > >> > he > >> > > > > still won't eat the BettaMin. And I won't be able to get > back to > >> > WalMart > >> > > > > until Monday (that's when my friend is taking me to get some > >> general > >> > > > > shopping done), unless I can sweet talk the people who are > >> giving me > >> > > > a ride > >> > > > > to church tomorrow into taking me there to pick up some better > >> betta > >> > > > food. > >> > > > > And I don't want to seem greedy about rides, I probabaly > wouldn't > >> > > > ask cause > >> > > > > I'd feel like I was taking advantage of them. But anyway, what > >> do I > >> > feed > >> > > > > him instead of BettaMin? > >> > > > > I was shocked to see so many bicolor bettas--I had thought > >> they were > >> > > > solid! > >> > > > > At least they were when I was a kid. I grew up on class pets of > >> > > > > either > >> > > > > solid red or solid blue bettas, because we couldn't have > >> anything in > >> > the > >> > > > > classroom with fur or feathers. But this guy is a mix of > red and > >> > > > > blue. > >> > > > > There was a pink and iridescent white one (he looked like an > >> > > > > opal) > >> > > > that I > >> > > > > liked a lot but he didn't look as healthy as my little guy. > >> > > > > Anyway, advice on what to feed him would be appreciated! I can > >> tell > >> > he's > >> > > > > hungry, but he seems to be a picky eater! > >> > > > > -Kathy > >> > > > > > >> > > > > > >> > > > > > >> > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > >> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > >> > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>, "kuradi8" <kuradi8@> > wrote: > >> > > > > > > >> > > > > > "Their stomachs are about the size of their eyes." What a > >> perfect > >> > > > way to > >> > > > > explain it! Especially to kids! (And seniors like my Mom.) > >> > > > > > > >> > > > > > Enjoy your Betta. I love mine. They have so much > >> personality! Chow > >> > > > Mein > >> > > > > and Sweet-and-Sour are here in my office. Of course in > individual > >> > tanks! > >> > > > > And Kala ("Fish") is downstairs with Mom. Kala is also red and > >> blue > >> > and > >> > > > > also from Walmart. Twins? :o) > >> > > > > > >> > > > > > > >> > > > > > Basically, as long as you're comfortable, your Betta will be > >> too. > >> > Keep > >> > > > > him out of the sun and away from anything that can vary his > >> water's > >> > > > > temperature. > >> > > > > > > >> > > > > > Each of my tanks has a small potted aquatic plant. I used > small > >> > > > plastic > >> > > > > party cups with sand and a layer of gravel on top. To clean the > >> > > > tank, I use > >> > > > > a length of air line hose rubber-banded to a long chopstick so > >> I can > >> > > > vacuum > >> > > > > the bottom without having to stick my hand in the water. > >> > > > > > ~Kai > >> > > > > > > >> > > > > > > >> > > > > > > >> > > > > > > >> > > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > >> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > >> > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>, "Kathy" <kl_whitney@> > >> > > > wrote: > >> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > Ok thanks Amber. My room's pretty stable, my suitemates > >> keep the > >> > > > > thermostat for our suite at 76ish. And I don't argue, cause > >> they're > >> > all > >> > > > > thin and have less.....insulation than I do. Some days I feel > >> like > >> > > > > I'm > >> > > > > burning up from the heat in the room, but I figure if they're > >> > > > comfortable > >> > > > > I'd better not argue. And the only reason it feels hot to me > >> is that > >> > my > >> > > > > parents kept the house at 68 all the winter's I've lived with > >> them. > >> > > > > > > I'll feed him in the morning. They got the fish shippment > >> > yesterday, > >> > > > > but I had an evening class and it snowed all afternoon so > >> yesterday > >> > > > would've > >> > > > > been a really bad day to get him. So he may have gone without > >> food > >> > > > > for > >> > > > > several days. Their stomachs are about the size of their eyes, > >> > > > right? So I > >> > > > > make sure the amount of food is about the same size as his > eye if > >> > > > you put it > >> > > > > all together? That's a tiny pinch, but I can figure it out. > >> > > > > > > -Kathy > >> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > >> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > >> > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>, Amber Berglund > >> > > > <arberglund@> > >> > > > wrote: > >> > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > 73 degrees should be just fine for him, as long as your > >> > > > > > > > room > >> > > > temps do > >> > > > > > > > not flucuate more than 3 degrees through a 24 hour > period. > >> > > > > > > > Did you ask when the store fed him last, or if they > fed him > >> > > > when he > >> > > > > > > > arrived? Most likely they did not feed him yet if you > just > >> > > > picked him > >> > > > > up > >> > > > > > > > after the shipment arrived. > >> > > > > > > > If you are uncertain feed him a small meal (betta's do > >> not eat > >> > > > very > >> > > > > much > >> > > > > > > > at all, just feed him a couple of tiny pellets or a > >> little bit > >> > of > >> > > > > > > > crushed flake food), if you're uncertain how much to > >> feed just > >> > > > start > >> > > > > out > >> > > > > > > > small and if he eats it in less than a few seconds you > >> > > > > > > > might > >> > > > be able > >> > > > > to > >> > > > > > > > get away with feeding a little more. I feed my betta > every > >> > > > other day > >> > > > > and > >> > > > > > > > he doesn't seem to be unhealthy from it, some days I > >> feed him > >> > > > on his > >> > > > > > > > normal "off day" too, so he doesn't have too many > breaks in > >> > > > between > >> > > > > meals. > >> > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > Amber > >> > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > Kathy wrote: > >> > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > Hi all, > >> > > > > > > > > Just got back from Walmart with a new betta about > an hour > >> > > > ago. He's > >> > > > > > > > > red and blue (will post a pic as soon as I get a > camera). > >> > > > I've been > >> > > > > > > > > slowly getting him used to the bowl water, and just > about > >> > > > > > > > > five > >> > > > > minutes > >> > > > > > > > > ago I let him free in the bowl. Now he's exploring. Two > >> > > > questions: > >> > > > > > > > > When do I give him his first meal? AND Is 73 > degrees too > >> > > > cool for > >> > > > > him? > >> > > > > > > > > That's what my thermometer is reading. > >> > > > > > > > > -Kathy > >> > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > >> > > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > ------------------------------------ > >> > > >> > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, > >> Thank You. > >> > ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , > >> > .·´¯`·..><((((º> > >> > PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT > >> important to > >> > the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the > >> > SUBJECT > >> > LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- > >> > <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , > .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. > >> > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. > >> > > >> > If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of > >> unsubscribing, you > >> > can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My Membership" > >> on the > >> > home page. > >> > > >> > Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:aquaticlife-digest%40yahoogroups.com> > >> <mailto:aquaticlife-digest%40yahoogroups.com> to receive the digest, > >> which > >> > includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email > >> > > >> > Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:aquaticlife-nomail%40yahoogroups.com> > >> <mailto:aquaticlife-nomail%40yahoogroups.com> for the No E-Mail option > >> where > >> > you will still be able to read messages on the group and post > replies. > >> > > >> > Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:aquaticlife-normal%40yahoogroups.com> > >> <mailto:aquaticlife-normal%40yahoogroups.com> to receive individual > >> > e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links > >> > > >> > >> ------------------------------------ > >> > >> Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank > >> You. > >> ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , > .·´¯`·..><((((º> > >> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT > >> important to > >> the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the > >> SUBJECT > >> LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- > >> <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. > >> We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. > >> > >> If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of unsubscribing, > >> you > >> can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My Membership" on > >> the > >> home page. > >> > >> Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:aquaticlife-digest%40yahoogroups.com> > >> <mailto:aquaticlife-digest%40yahoogroups.com> to receive the digest, > >> which > >> includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email > >> > >> Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:aquaticlife-nomail%40yahoogroups.com> > >> <mailto:aquaticlife-nomail%40yahoogroups.com> for the No E-Mail option > >> where > >> you will still be able to read messages on the group and post replies. > >> > >> Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:aquaticlife-normal%40yahoogroups.com> > >> <mailto:aquaticlife-normal%40yahoogroups.com> to receive individual > >> e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links > >> > >> > > > > > > ------------------------------------ > > > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, > Thank You. > > ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> > > PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT > important to > > the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the > > SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- > > <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. > > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. > > > > If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of > unsubscribing, you > > can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My Membership" > on the > > home page. > > > > Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:aquaticlife-digest%40yahoogroups.com> to receive the digest, > which > > includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email > > > > Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:aquaticlife-nomail%40yahoogroups.com> for the No E-Mail option > where > > you will still be able to read messages on the group and post replies. > > > > Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:aquaticlife-normal%40yahoogroups.com> to receive individual > > e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 44154	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 11/1/2009
Subject: Re: Fluval 305 issues

I never start my filters dry, I pour some water in to get them going, even the ones that are "self priming" sometimes need some help. Amber Ldyminx wrote: > > > Was just given a used Fluval 305, cleaned it out (it was pretty > hideous) and reassembled, now it makes a horrendous gurgling sound! > > I have two others of the very same make and haven't had this prob > before. Closed the valves, took off the top, cleaned out the three > baskets that were pretty much filled with solid gunk, washed out and > replaced the foam filters, reassembled, reattached pipes, and started > pumping out the air and started it back up. It's not pumping in water > and although the directions always say don't start pump with water > already in it I'm wondering ikf I should give it a try. > > What's the groups general consensus? > > Frustrated with filters, > > Chris in Northern VA > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 44155	From: Lainey Alexander	Date: 11/1/2009
Subject: Re: New betta

I use a turkey baster:) Lainey http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com On Nov 1, 2009, at 1:25 PM, Dora Smith wrote: > I'm talking about the things with bulb-like widening in one end, > and you > squeeze them to take up or discharge liquid - not the syringes, > that you > have to pull back or push a plunger. > > This size wuold definitely do the job. > > http://www.hometrainingtools.com/pipet-disposable-5-ml-10-pk/p/CE- > PIPET/ > > Yours, > Dora Smith > Austin, TX > tiggernut24@... > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Amber Berglund" <arberglund@...> > To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com> > Sent: Sunday, November 01, 2009 11:48 AM > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: New betta > > > You can get pipettes from any place that sells bird hand feeding > > supplies. Check on drsfostersmith.com under their bird menu and > feeding > > supplies, they have lots of stuff to hand feed baby birds with. I > have > > bought them from fostersmith in the past when I was still raising > sun > > conures. > > > > Amber > > > > Dora Smith wrote: > >> > >> > >> I thaw the bloodworms, and put in a little water (dechlorinated, > even > >> from > >> the bowl), and feed with a plastic pipette. Unfortunately you > probably > >> have to send away to a home science supply place for some pipettes, > >> unless > >> you're in a science class and the lab will let you have a > couple, but > >> they're likley to only have glass ones. > >> > >> Pipettes come in handy for measuring out your dechlorinators and > such as > >> well. > >> > >> You want a relatively large plastic pipette - 3 ml - with part > of an end > >> snipped off - for feeding bloodworms and other animules. > >> > >> Yours, > >> Dora Smith > >> Austin, TX > >> tiggernut24@... <mailto:tiggernut24%40yahoo.com> > >> ----- Original Message ----- > >> From: "Kathy" <kl_whitney@... <mailto:kl_whitney% > 40yahoo.com>> > >> To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife% > 40yahoogroups.com>> > >> Sent: Saturday, October 31, 2009 5:13 PM > >> Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: New betta > >> > >> Ok, thanks for letting me know. Would it be better to feed him > dried > >> bloodworms with tweezers while wearing rubber gloves? I have > both, though > >> the tweezers are supposed to be for shaping my eyebrows ;) and > the gloves > >> are the kind you wash dishes or clean bathrooms with. The gloves > are > >> clean, > >> brand new, but the tweezers would need a washing before I used > them to > >> feed > >> Pisces because I've been using them to shape my eyebrows. > >> -Kathy > >> > >> --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > >> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>, "Steve Szabo" > <steve@...> wrote: > >> > > >> > Kathy, > >> > > >> > Bloodworms are problematic, not from the fish's point of view, > but > >> yours. > >> > Many people have allergies to the bloodworms and can break out > in a > >> rash > >> > or > >> > worse from them. People who have no allergies to them can become > >> allergic > >> > over time. I would stay away from the freeze dried stuff. The > frozen or > >> > live > >> > worms do not seem to carry the same effects. > >> > > >> > You mentioned snow in an earlier post. Were you the one > dreaming of a > >> > white > >> > Halloween? > >> > > >> > \\Steve// > >> > > >> > > >> > -----Original Message----- > >> > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > >> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > >> [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > >> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On > >> > Behalf Of Kathy > >> > Sent: Saturday, October 31, 2009 5:49 PM > >> > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife% > 40yahoogroups.com> > >> > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: New betta > >> > > >> > Well, he seemed to ignore it when I put it in there. Should I > try again > >> > when he's paying attention to the surface? Is it possible to get > >> > bloodworms > >> > dehydrated and in a jar, so that I don't have to keep them > frozen? That > >> > would be a lot more convenient. > >> > -Kathy > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > >> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>, Amber Berglund > <arberglund@> > >> wrote: > >> > > > >> > > Does he notice the food when you drop it in and just ignore > it? Mine > >> > > will chase food that I drop in, but he ignores anything that > floats > >> > > on > >> > > the surface mostly. He seems to prefer foods that sink. I > feed mine > >> > > omega one sinking shrimp pellets, I also feed frozen foods > (brine > >> > > shrimp, mysis shrimp, and their favorite bloodworms), not > sure if > >> > > your > >> > > walmart will have frozen foods, but they are the best to get > for your > >> > > fishy. If they do not and you need to get freeze dried food > >> instead make > >> > > sure you rehydrate it in a little cup of water for a good 30 > >> seconds or > >> > > more to soak up some water before you give it to your betta, > they can > >> > > become easily constipated so it's best to feed them well > hydrated > >> foods > >> > > just to be safe. > >> > > I also make my own jello fish food as well, and he gets little > >> chunks of > >> > > it every now and then (it has mostly frozen fish/shrimp, frozen > >> veggies, > >> > > and some left over flake foods), I did no have liquid > vitamins and > >> such > >> > > on hand to add to the mix this last time, they don't sell > them in > >> > > town > >> > > so I have to order it. But I figure my homemade food can't > be any > >> worse > >> > > than some of the flake foods out there ;) > >> > > > >> > > Amber > >> > > > >> > > Kathy wrote: > >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > Thanks for the links, Steve! I'll check them out. Gosh, I > need to > >> > > > think of a name for him. Don't know what to call him. > It'll come > >> to me > >> > > > though. > >> > > > LOL now he's showing off and acting all macho for his own > >> reflection. > >> > > > They sure are fun to watch! > >> > > > So if he doesn't take the BettaMin (I'v decided to give him a > >> few days > >> > > > on that and see if he takes it when he is more comfortable > with > >> > > > me), > >> > > > what should I buy to feed him? And does time of day make any > >> > > > difference in how eager he is to eat? > >> > > > -Kathy > >> > > > > >> > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > >> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > >> > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>, "Steve Szabo" > <steve@> > >> wrote: > >> > > > > > >> > > > > First, you are entering the wild, crazy, wonderful world of > >> bettas. > >> > > > Take a > >> > > > > look here for just some of the color types you can see > in bettas > >> > > > (meaning > >> > > > > _Betta splendens_, we'll forgo the 60 or so "wild" types of > >> bettas). > >> > > > Take a > >> > > > > look at some of the more common color types here, > >> > > > > http://www.bettatalk.com/betta_colors.htm. > >> <http://www.bettatalk.com/betta_colors.htm.> > >> > > > <http://www.bettatalk.com/betta_colors.htm. > >> <http://www.bettatalk.com/betta_colors.htm.>> I do note a gross > >> > > > exception on > >> > > > > this page, and that is the pastels. Oh, well, I guess you > >> can't get > >> > > > > everything all at once. > >> > > > > > >> > > > > Then, of course, you have tail types to consider, which are > >> > > > > listed > >> > here: > >> > > > > > >> > > > > >> > > >> http://www.associatedcontent.com/article/433417/ > overview_of_betta_fish_tail_ > >> <http://www.associatedcontent.com/article/433417/ > overview_of_betta_fish_tail_> > >> > > >> > > > > >> > > >> <http://www.associatedcontent.com/article/433417/ > overview_of_betta_fish_tail > >> <http://www.associatedcontent.com/article/433417/ > overview_of_betta_fish_tail> > >> > _> > >> > > > > types_and.html?cat=53 > >> > > > > http://tinyurl.com/yku2rrp <http://tinyurl.com/yku2rrp> > >> <http://tinyurl.com/yku2rrp <http://tinyurl.com/yku2rrp>> > >> > > > > > >> > > > > This will give you some reading for the weekend, and, of > course, > >> > > > there is > >> > > > > your friend, Google, to lead you to even more > information on > >> bettas. > >> > > > > > >> > > > > \\Steve// > >> > > > > > >> > > > > > >> > > > > -----Original Message----- > >> > > > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > >> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > >> > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > >> > > > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > >> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > >> > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On > >> > > > > Behalf Of Kathy > >> > > > > Sent: Saturday, October 31, 2009 12:01 PM > >> > > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > >> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > >> > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > >> > > > > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: New betta > >> > > > > > >> > > > > Thanks, Kai. > >> > > > > There's a bit of a problem. He apparently doesn't like > Tetra > >> > > > > BettaMin > >> > > > > flakes. He won't eat them. I'm pretty sure he's hungry > cause he's > >> > > > showing > >> > > > > hunting behaviors, he's gotten really active and seems > like he's > >> > > > looking for > >> > > > > something (I've seen the exact same behavior in my snake > when > >> > > > > he's > >> > > > hungry, > >> > > > > isnt' it weird how two animals so different can act so > similar!), > >> > > > > but > >> > he > >> > > > > still won't eat the BettaMin. And I won't be able to get > back to > >> > WalMart > >> > > > > until Monday (that's when my friend is taking me to get > some > >> general > >> > > > > shopping done), unless I can sweet talk the people who are > >> giving me > >> > > > a ride > >> > > > > to church tomorrow into taking me there to pick up some > better > >> betta > >> > > > food. > >> > > > > And I don't want to seem greedy about rides, I probabaly > wouldn't > >> > > > ask cause > >> > > > > I'd feel like I was taking advantage of them. But > anyway, what > >> do I > >> > feed > >> > > > > him instead of BettaMin? > >> > > > > I was shocked to see so many bicolor bettas--I had thought > >> they were > >> > > > solid! > >> > > > > At least they were when I was a kid. I grew up on class > pets of > >> > > > > either > >> > > > > solid red or solid blue bettas, because we couldn't have > >> anything in > >> > the > >> > > > > classroom with fur or feathers. But this guy is a mix of > red and > >> > > > > blue. > >> > > > > There was a pink and iridescent white one (he looked > like an > >> > > > > opal) > >> > > > that I > >> > > > > liked a lot but he didn't look as healthy as my little guy. > >> > > > > Anyway, advice on what to feed him would be appreciated! > I can > >> tell > >> > he's > >> > > > > hungry, but he seems to be a picky eater! > >> > > > > -Kathy > >> > > > > > >> > > > > > >> > > > > > >> > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > >> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > >> > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>, "kuradi8" > <kuradi8@> wrote: > >> > > > > > > >> > > > > > "Their stomachs are about the size of their eyes." What a > >> perfect > >> > > > way to > >> > > > > explain it! Especially to kids! (And seniors like my Mom.) > >> > > > > > > >> > > > > > Enjoy your Betta. I love mine. They have so much > >> personality! Chow > >> > > > Mein > >> > > > > and Sweet-and-Sour are here in my office. Of course in > individual > >> > tanks! > >> > > > > And Kala ("Fish") is downstairs with Mom. Kala is also > red and > >> blue > >> > and > >> > > > > also from Walmart. Twins? :o) > >> > > > > > >> > > > > > > >> > > > > > Basically, as long as you're comfortable, your Betta > will be > >> too. > >> > Keep > >> > > > > him out of the sun and away from anything that can vary his > >> water's > >> > > > > temperature. > >> > > > > > > >> > > > > > Each of my tanks has a small potted aquatic plant. I > used small > >> > > > plastic > >> > > > > party cups with sand and a layer of gravel on top. To > clean the > >> > > > tank, I use > >> > > > > a length of air line hose rubber-banded to a long > chopstick so > >> I can > >> > > > vacuum > >> > > > > the bottom without having to stick my hand in the water. > >> > > > > > ~Kai > >> > > > > > > >> > > > > > > >> > > > > > > >> > > > > > > >> > > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > >> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > >> > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>, "Kathy" <kl_whitney@> > >> > > > wrote: > >> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > Ok thanks Amber. My room's pretty stable, my suitemates > >> keep the > >> > > > > thermostat for our suite at 76ish. And I don't argue, cause > >> they're > >> > all > >> > > > > thin and have less.....insulation than I do. Some days I > feel > >> like > >> > > > > I'm > >> > > > > burning up from the heat in the room, but I figure if > they're > >> > > > comfortable > >> > > > > I'd better not argue. And the only reason it feels hot > to me > >> is that > >> > my > >> > > > > parents kept the house at 68 all the winter's I've lived > with > >> them. > >> > > > > > > I'll feed him in the morning. They got the fish > shippment > >> > yesterday, > >> > > > > but I had an evening class and it snowed all afternoon so > >> yesterday > >> > > > would've > >> > > > > been a really bad day to get him. So he may have gone > without > >> food > >> > > > > for > >> > > > > several days. Their stomachs are about the size of their > eyes, > >> > > > right? So I > >> > > > > make sure the amount of food is about the same size as > his eye if > >> > > > you put it > >> > > > > all together? That's a tiny pinch, but I can figure it out. > >> > > > > > > -Kathy > >> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > >> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > >> > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>, Amber Berglund > >> > > > <arberglund@> > >> > > > wrote: > >> > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > 73 degrees should be just fine for him, as long as > your > >> > > > > > > > room > >> > > > temps do > >> > > > > > > > not flucuate more than 3 degrees through a 24 hour > period. > >> > > > > > > > Did you ask when the store fed him last, or if > they fed him > >> > > > when he > >> > > > > > > > arrived? Most likely they did not feed him yet if > you just > >> > > > picked him > >> > > > > up > >> > > > > > > > after the shipment arrived. > >> > > > > > > > If you are uncertain feed him a small meal > (betta's do > >> not eat > >> > > > very > >> > > > > much > >> > > > > > > > at all, just feed him a couple of tiny pellets or a > >> little bit > >> > of > >> > > > > > > > crushed flake food), if you're uncertain how much to > >> feed just > >> > > > start > >> > > > > out > >> > > > > > > > small and if he eats it in less than a few seconds > you > >> > > > > > > > might > >> > > > be able > >> > > > > to > >> > > > > > > > get away with feeding a little more. I feed my > betta every > >> > > > other day > >> > > > > and > >> > > > > > > > he doesn't seem to be unhealthy from it, some days I > >> feed him > >> > > > on his > >> > > > > > > > normal "off day" too, so he doesn't have too many > breaks in > >> > > > between > >> > > > > meals. > >> > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > Amber > >> > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > Kathy wrote: > >> > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > Hi all, > >> > > > > > > > > Just got back from Walmart with a new betta > about an hour > >> > > > ago. He's > >> > > > > > > > > red and blue (will post a pic as soon as I get a > camera). > >> > > > I've been > >> > > > > > > > > slowly getting him used to the bowl water, and > just about > >> > > > > > > > > five > >> > > > > minutes > >> > > > > > > > > ago I let him free in the bowl. Now he's > exploring. Two > >> > > > questions: > >> > > > > > > > > When do I give him his first meal? AND Is 73 > degrees too > >> > > > cool for > >> > > > > him? > >> > > > > > > > > That's what my thermometer is reading. > >> > > > > > > > > -Kathy > >> > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > >> > > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > ------------------------------------ > >> > > >> > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, > >> Thank You. > >> > ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , > >> > .·´¯`·..><((((º> > >> > PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT > >> important to > >> > the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message > MODIFY the > >> > SUBJECT > >> > LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- > >> > <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><· > ´¯`·.¸¸. > >> > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. > >> > > >> > If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of > >> unsubscribing, you > >> > can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My > Membership" > >> on the > >> > home page. > >> > > >> > Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com > >> <mailto:aquaticlife-digest%40yahoogroups.com> to receive the > digest, > >> which > >> > includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email > >> > > >> > Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com > >> <mailto:aquaticlife-nomail%40yahoogroups.com> for the No E-Mail > option > >> where > >> > you will still be able to read messages on the group and post > replies. > >> > > >> > Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com > >> <mailto:aquaticlife-normal%40yahoogroups.com> to receive individual > >> > e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links > >> > > >> > >> ------------------------------------ > >> > >> Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, > Thank > >> You. > >> ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .· > ´¯`·..><((((º> > >> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT > >> important to > >> the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY > the > >> SUBJECT > >> LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- > >> <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><· > ´¯`·.¸¸. > >> We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. > >> > >> If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of > unsubscribing, > >> you > >> can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My > Membership" on > >> the > >> home page. > >> > >> Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com > >> <mailto:aquaticlife-digest%40yahoogroups.com> to receive the > digest, > >> which > >> includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email > >> > >> Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com > >> <mailto:aquaticlife-nomail%40yahoogroups.com> for the No E-Mail > option > >> where > >> you will still be able to read messages on the group and post > replies. > >> > >> Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com > >> <mailto:aquaticlife-normal%40yahoogroups.com> to receive individual > >> e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links > >> > >> > > > > > > ------------------------------------ > > > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, > Thank You. > > ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..>< > ((((º> > > PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT > important to > > the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the > > SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- > > <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><· > ´¯`·.¸¸. > > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. > > > > If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of > unsubscribing, you > > can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My > Membership" on the > > home page. > > > > Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com to receive the > digest, which > > includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email > > > > Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com for the No E-Mail > option where > > you will still be able to read messages on the group and post > replies. > > > > Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com to receive individual > > e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 44156	From: kuradi8	Date: 11/1/2009
Subject: Re: New betta

Ethnic restaurants in the Poconos??? HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA! I miss city food. The Chinese menu names started when I didn't know what to get Mom for Christmas many years ago. I came home with a large "vase" of a bowl and a beautiful royal blue veil tail. Hubby said, "Buddy is going to think he tastes a lot like chicken." Oh yeah, Buddy the Terror Cat. Mom's (cough-cough) "friend" asked her to kitty-sit him "just for the summer." Buddy spent the next 4 years destroying everything in Mom's house until her (ahem) "friend" reluctantly came to reclaim her monster, I mean cat. (Don't get me wrong, I LOVE cats! But not THAT cat.) So the fish stayed here and became known as General Tso. Then came Kung Pao, who was my favorite crowntail with a MOUNTAIN of attitude. He even went out flaring. Lo Mein (VT) was scarlet red, then Egg Foo Young (VT) was scrambled eggs yellow. And now I have Chow Mein (TDT CT) and Sweet and Sour (VT) who are very canine in their interactions... like two dogs on opposite sides of a fence. I think I might get a mystery snail for Mom's crowntail downstairs. His bowl is directly under her reading lamp and algae grows quickly in there. Kala needs a housekeeper. :o) ~Kai --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Steve Szabo" <steve@...> wrote: > > Kai, > > You need to visit different ethnic restaurants. _Betta splendens_ is native > to Cambodia, Laos, Thailand, and Vietnam. > > More appropriate names, off the menus, would be something like these (using > just fish dishes): > Cambodian: > Avocat Kanthor > Trey Tuk Peng Pah > Trey Ang > > Laotian: > Sorry, I wasn't able to find a Laotian restaurant using Laotian dish names > > Thai: > PLAR LAAD PRIK > HOH MOK > > Vietnamese: > Al kinds of Pho, a noodle soup > Hu Teiu My Tho > Bun Oc > > > \\Steve// > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On > Behalf Of kuradi8 > Sent: Sunday, November 01, 2009 7:35 AM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: New betta > > My Bettas don't care for the flakes either -- but they'll eat them if they > get hungry enough. They like the "Granules" better. Also TetraMin brand -- > with the dark green color coded cap. The stuff with the green cap is tough > to find around here but my Walmart carries Wardley and other brands of > granules so maybe yours will too. > > Sweet-and-Sour is a solid orange colored veil tail. (I read somewhere that > orange is a hard color to breed.) And Chow Mein is a triple-double-tail > crowntail. His fringe forks once, twice and then many of them fork a third > time right at the tips. He's navy, royal and teal but comes out green in > photographs. > > And don't worry, he'll eventually name himself. Mine have all had names off > the Chinese take-out menu. > ~Kai > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Kathy" <kl_whitney@> wrote: > > > > Thanks, Kai. > > There's a bit of a problem. He apparently doesn't like Tetra BettaMin > flakes. He won't eat them. I'm pretty sure he's hungry cause he's showing > hunting behaviors, he's gotten really active and seems like he's looking for > something (I've seen the exact same behavior in my snake when he's hungry, > isnt' it weird how two animals so different can act so similar!), but he > still won't eat the BettaMin. And I won't be able to get back to WalMart > until Monday (that's when my friend is taking me to get some general > shopping done), unless I can sweet talk the people who are giving me a ride > to church tomorrow into taking me there to pick up some better betta food. > And I don't want to seem greedy about rides, I probabaly wouldn't ask cause > I'd feel like I was taking advantage of them. But anyway, what do I feed > him instead of BettaMin? > > I was shocked to see so many bicolor bettas--I had thought they were > solid! At least they were when I was a kid. I grew up on class pets of > either solid red or solid blue bettas, because we couldn't have anything in > the classroom with fur or feathers. But this guy is a mix of red and blue. > There was a pink and iridescent white one (he looked like an opal) that I > liked a lot but he didn't look as healthy as my little guy. > > Anyway, advice on what to feed him would be appreciated! I can tell he's > hungry, but he seems to be a picky eater! > > -Kathy > > > > > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "kuradi8" <kuradi8@> wrote: > > > > > > "Their stomachs are about the size of their eyes." What a perfect way > to explain it! Especially to kids! (And seniors like my Mom.) > > > > > > Enjoy your Betta. I love mine. They have so much personality! Chow > Mein and Sweet-and-Sour are here in my office. Of course in individual > tanks! And Kala ("Fish") is downstairs with Mom. Kala is also red and blue > and also from Walmart. Twins? :o) > > > > > > Basically, as long as you're comfortable, your Betta will be too. Keep > him out of the sun and away from anything that can vary his water's > temperature. > > > > > > Each of my tanks has a small potted aquatic plant. I used small plastic > party cups with sand and a layer of gravel on top. To clean the tank, I use > a length of air line hose rubber-banded to a long chopstick so I can vacuum > the bottom without having to stick my hand in the water. > > > ~Kai > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Kathy" <kl_whitney@> wrote: > > > > > > > > Ok thanks Amber. My room's pretty stable, my suitemates keep the > thermostat for our suite at 76ish. And I don't argue, cause they're all > thin and have less.....insulation than I do. Some days I feel like I'm > burning up from the heat in the room, but I figure if they're comfortable > I'd better not argue. And the only reason it feels hot to me is that my > parents kept the house at 68 all the winter's I've lived with them. > > > > I'll feed him in the morning. They got the fish shippment yesterday, > but I had an evening class and it snowed all afternoon so yesterday would've > been a really bad day to get him. So he may have gone without food for > several days. Their stomachs are about the size of their eyes, right? So I > make sure the amount of food is about the same size as his eye if you put it > all together? That's a tiny pinch, but I can figure it out. > > > > -Kathy > > > > > > > > > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, Amber Berglund <arberglund@> > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > 73 degrees should be just fine for him, as long as your room temps > do > > > > > not flucuate more than 3 degrees through a 24 hour period. > > > > > Did you ask when the store fed him last, or if they fed him when he > > > > > arrived? Most likely they did not feed him yet if you just picked > him up > > > > > after the shipment arrived. > > > > > If you are uncertain feed him a small meal (betta's do not eat very > much > > > > > at all, just feed him a couple of tiny pellets or a little bit of > > > > > crushed flake food), if you're uncertain how much to feed just start > out > > > > > small and if he eats it in less than a few seconds you might be able > to > > > > > get away with feeding a little more. I feed my betta every other day > and > > > > > he doesn't seem to be unhealthy from it, some days I feed him on his > > > > > > normal "off day" too, so he doesn't have too many breaks in between > meals. > > > > > > > > > > Amber > > > > > > > > > > Kathy wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Hi all, > > > > > > Just got back from Walmart with a new betta about an hour ago. > He's > > > > > > red and blue (will post a pic as soon as I get a camera). I've > been > > > > > > slowly getting him used to the bowl water, and just about five > minutes > > > > > > ago I let him free in the bowl. Now he's exploring. Two questions: > > > > > > > When do I give him his first meal? AND Is 73 degrees too cool for > him? > > > > > > That's what my thermometer is reading. > > > > > > -Kathy > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ------------------------------------ > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. > ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> > PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to > the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT > LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- > <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. > > If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of unsubscribing, you > can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the > home page. > > Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com to receive the digest, which > includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email > > Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com for the No E-Mail option where > you will still be able to read messages on the group and post replies. > > Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com to receive individual > e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 44157	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 11/1/2009
Subject: Re: New betta

Mystery snails don't eat much algae once they are full grown, in fact they eat very little algae and mostly decaying plant matter/leftover food. But it would help keep the bottom of the tank cleaner. Amber kuradi8 wrote: > > > Ethnic restaurants in the Poconos??? HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA! I miss city food. > > The Chinese menu names started when I didn't know what to get Mom for > Christmas many years ago. I came home with a large "vase" of a bowl > and a beautiful royal blue veil tail. Hubby said, "Buddy is going to > think he tastes a lot like chicken." > > Oh yeah, Buddy the Terror Cat. Mom's (cough-cough) "friend" asked her > to kitty-sit him "just for the summer." Buddy spent the next 4 years > destroying everything in Mom's house until her (ahem) "friend" > reluctantly came to reclaim her monster, I mean cat. (Don't get me > wrong, I LOVE cats! But not THAT cat.) > > So the fish stayed here and became known as General Tso. Then came > Kung Pao, who was my favorite crowntail with a MOUNTAIN of attitude. > He even went out flaring. Lo Mein (VT) was scarlet red, then Egg Foo > Young (VT) was scrambled eggs yellow. And now I have Chow Mein (TDT > CT) and Sweet and Sour (VT) who are very canine in their > interactions... like two dogs on opposite sides of a fence. > > I think I might get a mystery snail for Mom's crowntail downstairs. > His bowl is directly under her reading lamp and algae grows quickly in > there. Kala needs a housekeeper. :o) > ~Kai > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>, "Steve Szabo" <steve@...> wrote: > > > > Kai, > > > > You need to visit different ethnic restaurants. _Betta splendens_ is > native > > to Cambodia, Laos, Thailand, and Vietnam. > > > > More appropriate names, off the menus, would be something like these > (using > > just fish dishes): > > Cambodian: > > Avocat Kanthor > > Trey Tuk Peng Pah > > Trey Ang > > > > Laotian: > > Sorry, I wasn't able to find a Laotian restaurant using Laotian dish > names > > > > Thai: > > PLAR LAAD PRIK > > HOH MOK > > > > Vietnamese: > > Al kinds of Pho, a noodle soup > > Hu Teiu My Tho > > Bun Oc > > > > > > \\Steve// > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On > > Behalf Of kuradi8 > > Sent: Sunday, November 01, 2009 7:35 AM > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: New betta > > > > My Bettas don't care for the flakes either -- but they'll eat them > if they > > get hungry enough. They like the "Granules" better. Also TetraMin > brand -- > > with the dark green color coded cap. The stuff with the green cap is > tough > > to find around here but my Walmart carries Wardley and other brands of > > granules so maybe yours will too. > > > > Sweet-and-Sour is a solid orange colored veil tail. (I read > somewhere that > > orange is a hard color to breed.) And Chow Mein is a triple-double-tail > > crowntail. His fringe forks once, twice and then many of them fork a > third > > time right at the tips. He's navy, royal and teal but comes out green in > > photographs. > > > > And don't worry, he'll eventually name himself. Mine have all had > names off > > the Chinese take-out menu. > > ~Kai > > > > > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>, "Kathy" <kl_whitney@> wrote: > > > > > > Thanks, Kai. > > > There's a bit of a problem. He apparently doesn't like Tetra BettaMin > > flakes. He won't eat them. I'm pretty sure he's hungry cause he's > showing > > hunting behaviors, he's gotten really active and seems like he's > looking for > > something (I've seen the exact same behavior in my snake when he's > hungry, > > isnt' it weird how two animals so different can act so similar!), but he > > still won't eat the BettaMin. And I won't be able to get back to WalMart > > until Monday (that's when my friend is taking me to get some general > > shopping done), unless I can sweet talk the people who are giving me > a ride > > to church tomorrow into taking me there to pick up some better betta > food. > > And I don't want to seem greedy about rides, I probabaly wouldn't > ask cause > > I'd feel like I was taking advantage of them. But anyway, what do I feed > > him instead of BettaMin? > > > I was shocked to see so many bicolor bettas--I had thought they were > > solid! At least they were when I was a kid. I grew up on class pets of > > either solid red or solid blue bettas, because we couldn't have > anything in > > the classroom with fur or feathers. But this guy is a mix of red and > blue. > > There was a pink and iridescent white one (he looked like an opal) > that I > > liked a lot but he didn't look as healthy as my little guy. > > > Anyway, advice on what to feed him would be appreciated! I can > tell he's > > hungry, but he seems to be a picky eater! > > > -Kathy > > > > > > > > > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>, "kuradi8" <kuradi8@> wrote: > > > > > > > > "Their stomachs are about the size of their eyes." What a > perfect way > > to explain it! Especially to kids! (And seniors like my Mom.) > > > > > > > > Enjoy your Betta. I love mine. They have so much personality! Chow > > Mein and Sweet-and-Sour are here in my office. Of course in individual > > tanks! And Kala ("Fish") is downstairs with Mom. Kala is also red > and blue > > and also from Walmart. Twins? :o) > > > > > > > > Basically, as long as you're comfortable, your Betta will be > too. Keep > > him out of the sun and away from anything that can vary his water's > > temperature. > > > > > > > > Each of my tanks has a small potted aquatic plant. I used small > plastic > > party cups with sand and a layer of gravel on top. To clean the > tank, I use > > a length of air line hose rubber-banded to a long chopstick so I can > vacuum > > the bottom without having to stick my hand in the water. > > > > ~Kai > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>, "Kathy" <kl_whitney@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > Ok thanks Amber. My room's pretty stable, my suitemates keep the > > thermostat for our suite at 76ish. And I don't argue, cause they're all > > thin and have less.....insulation than I do. Some days I feel like I'm > > burning up from the heat in the room, but I figure if they're > comfortable > > I'd better not argue. And the only reason it feels hot to me is that my > > parents kept the house at 68 all the winter's I've lived with them. > > > > > I'll feed him in the morning. They got the fish shippment > yesterday, > > but I had an evening class and it snowed all afternoon so yesterday > would've > > been a really bad day to get him. So he may have gone without food for > > several days. Their stomachs are about the size of their eyes, > right? So I > > make sure the amount of food is about the same size as his eye if > you put it > > all together? That's a tiny pinch, but I can figure it out. > > > > > -Kathy > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>, Amber Berglund <arberglund@> > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > 73 degrees should be just fine for him, as long as your room > temps > > do > > > > > > not flucuate more than 3 degrees through a 24 hour period. > > > > > > Did you ask when the store fed him last, or if they fed him > when he > > > > > > arrived? Most likely they did not feed him yet if you just > picked > > him up > > > > > > after the shipment arrived. > > > > > > If you are uncertain feed him a small meal (betta's do not > eat very > > much > > > > > > at all, just feed him a couple of tiny pellets or a little > bit of > > > > > > crushed flake food), if you're uncertain how much to feed > just start > > out > > > > > > small and if he eats it in less than a few seconds you might > be able > > to > > > > > > get away with feeding a little more. I feed my betta every > other day > > and > > > > > > he doesn't seem to be unhealthy from it, some days I feed > him on his > > > > > > > > normal "off day" too, so he doesn't have too many breaks in > between > > meals. > > > > > > > > > > > > Amber > > > > > > > > > > > > Kathy wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Hi all, > > > > > > > Just got back from Walmart with a new betta about an hour ago. > > He's > > > > > > > red and blue (will post a pic as soon as I get a camera). I've > > been > > > > > > > slowly getting him used to the bowl water, and just about five > > minutes > > > > > > > ago I let him free in the bowl. Now he's exploring. Two > questions: > > > > > > > > > When do I give him his first meal? AND Is 73 degrees too > cool for > > him? > > > > > > > That's what my thermometer is reading. > > > > > > > -Kathy > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ------------------------------------ > > > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, > Thank You. > > ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> > > PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT > important to > > the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the > SUBJECT > > LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- > > <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. > > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. > > > > If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of > unsubscribing, you > > can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My Membership" > on the > > home page. > > > > Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:aquaticlife-digest%40yahoogroups.com> to receive the digest, which > > includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email > > > > Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:aquaticlife-nomail%40yahoogroups.com> for the No E-Mail option > where > > you will still be able to read messages on the group and post replies. > > > > Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:aquaticlife-normal%40yahoogroups.com> to receive individual > > e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links > > > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 44158	From: Dora Smith	Date: 11/1/2009
Subject: Re: New betta

To feed bloodworms? Is this for the 50 gallon tank? Yours, Dora Smith Austin, TX tiggernut24@... ----- Original Message ----- From: "Lainey Alexander" <lainealex@...> To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Sunday, November 01, 2009 4:20 PM Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: New betta I use a turkey baster:) Lainey http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com On Nov 1, 2009, at 1:25 PM, Dora Smith wrote: > I'm talking about the things with bulb-like widening in one end, > and you > squeeze them to take up or discharge liquid - not the syringes, > that you > have to pull back or push a plunger. > > This size wuold definitely do the job. > > http://www.hometrainingtools.com/pipet-disposable-5-ml-10-pk/p/CE- > PIPET/ > > Yours, > Dora Smith > Austin, TX > tiggernut24@... > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Amber Berglund" <arberglund@...> > To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com> > Sent: Sunday, November 01, 2009 11:48 AM > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: New betta > > > You can get pipettes from any place that sells bird hand feeding > > supplies. Check on drsfostersmith.com under their bird menu and > feeding > > supplies, they have lots of stuff to hand feed baby birds with. I > have > > bought them from fostersmith in the past when I was still raising > sun > > conures. > > > > Amber > > > > Dora Smith wrote: > >> > >> > >> I thaw the bloodworms, and put in a little water (dechlorinated, > even > >> from > >> the bowl), and feed with a plastic pipette. Unfortunately you > probably > >> have to send away to a home science supply place for some pipettes, > >> unless > >> you're in a science class and the lab will let you have a > couple, but > >> they're likley to only have glass ones. > >> > >> Pipettes come in handy for measuring out your dechlorinators and > such as > >> well. > >> > >> You want a relatively large plastic pipette - 3 ml - with part > of an end > >> snipped off - for feeding bloodworms and other animules. > >> > >> Yours, > >> Dora Smith > >> Austin, TX > >> tiggernut24@... <mailto:tiggernut24%40yahoo.com> > >> ----- Original Message ----- > >> From: "Kathy" <kl_whitney@... <mailto:kl_whitney% > 40yahoo.com>> > >> To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife% > 40yahoogroups.com>> > >> Sent: Saturday, October 31, 2009 5:13 PM > >> Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: New betta > >> > >> Ok, thanks for letting me know. Would it be better to feed him > dried > >> bloodworms with tweezers while wearing rubber gloves? I have > both, though > >> the tweezers are supposed to be for shaping my eyebrows ;) and > the gloves > >> are the kind you wash dishes or clean bathrooms with. The gloves > are > >> clean, > >> brand new, but the tweezers would need a washing before I used > them to > >> feed > >> Pisces because I've been using them to shape my eyebrows. > >> -Kathy > >> > >> --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > >> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>, "Steve Szabo" > <steve@...> wrote: > >> > > >> > Kathy, > >> > > >> > Bloodworms are problematic, not from the fish's point of view, > but > >> yours. > >> > Many people have allergies to the bloodworms and can break out > in a > >> rash > >> > or > >> > worse from them. People who have no allergies to them can become > >> allergic > >> > over time. I would stay away from the freeze dried stuff. The > frozen or > >> > live > >> > worms do not seem to carry the same effects. > >> > > >> > You mentioned snow in an earlier post. Were you the one > dreaming of a > >> > white > >> > Halloween? > >> > > >> > \\Steve// > >> > > >> > > >> > -----Original Message----- > >> > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > >> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > >> [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > >> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On > >> > Behalf Of Kathy > >> > Sent: Saturday, October 31, 2009 5:49 PM > >> > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife% > 40yahoogroups.com> > >> > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: New betta > >> > > >> > Well, he seemed to ignore it when I put it in there. Should I > try again > >> > when he's paying attention to the surface? Is it possible to get > >> > bloodworms > >> > dehydrated and in a jar, so that I don't have to keep them > frozen? That > >> > would be a lot more convenient. > >> > -Kathy > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > >> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>, Amber Berglund > <arberglund@> > >> wrote: > >> > > > >> > > Does he notice the food when you drop it in and just ignore > it? Mine > >> > > will chase food that I drop in, but he ignores anything that > floats > >> > > on > >> > > the surface mostly. He seems to prefer foods that sink. I > feed mine > >> > > omega one sinking shrimp pellets, I also feed frozen foods > (brine > >> > > shrimp, mysis shrimp, and their favorite bloodworms), not > sure if > >> > > your > >> > > walmart will have frozen foods, but they are the best to get > for your > >> > > fishy. If they do not and you need to get freeze dried food > >> instead make > >> > > sure you rehydrate it in a little cup of water for a good 30 > >> seconds or > >> > > more to soak up some water before you give it to your betta, > they can > >> > > become easily constipated so it's best to feed them well > hydrated > >> foods > >> > > just to be safe. > >> > > I also make my own jello fish food as well, and he gets little > >> chunks of > >> > > it every now and then (it has mostly frozen fish/shrimp, frozen > >> veggies, > >> > > and some left over flake foods), I did no have liquid > vitamins and > >> such > >> > > on hand to add to the mix this last time, they don't sell > them in > >> > > town > >> > > so I have to order it. But I figure my homemade food can't > be any > >> worse > >> > > than some of the flake foods out there ;) > >> > > > >> > > Amber > >> > > > >> > > Kathy wrote: > >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > Thanks for the links, Steve! I'll check them out. Gosh, I > need to > >> > > > think of a name for him. Don't know what to call him. > It'll come > >> to me > >> > > > though. > >> > > > LOL now he's showing off and acting all macho for his own > >> reflection. > >> > > > They sure are fun to watch! > >> > > > So if he doesn't take the BettaMin (I'v decided to give him a > >> few days > >> > > > on that and see if he takes it when he is more comfortable > with > >> > > > me), > >> > > > what should I buy to feed him? And does time of day make any > >> > > > difference in how eager he is to eat? > >> > > > -Kathy > >> > > > > >> > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > >> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > >> > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>, "Steve Szabo" > <steve@> > >> wrote: > >> > > > > > >> > > > > First, you are entering the wild, crazy, wonderful world of > >> bettas. > >> > > > Take a > >> > > > > look here for just some of the color types you can see > in bettas > >> > > > (meaning > >> > > > > _Betta splendens_, we'll forgo the 60 or so "wild" types of > >> bettas). > >> > > > Take a > >> > > > > look at some of the more common color types here, > >> > > > > http://www.bettatalk.com/betta_colors.htm. > >> <http://www.bettatalk.com/betta_colors.htm.> > >> > > > <http://www.bettatalk.com/betta_colors.htm. > >> <http://www.bettatalk.com/betta_colors.htm.>> I do note a gross > >> > > > exception on > >> > > > > this page, and that is the pastels. Oh, well, I guess you > >> can't get > >> > > > > everything all at once. > >> > > > > > >> > > > > Then, of course, you have tail types to consider, which are > >> > > > > listed > >> > here: > >> > > > > > >> > > > > >> > > >> http://www.associatedcontent.com/article/433417/ > overview_of_betta_fish_tail_ > >> <http://www.associatedcontent.com/article/433417/ > overview_of_betta_fish_tail_> > >> > > >> > > > > >> > > >> <http://www.associatedcontent.com/article/433417/ > overview_of_betta_fish_tail > >> <http://www.associatedcontent.com/article/433417/ > overview_of_betta_fish_tail> > >> > _> > >> > > > > types_and.html?cat=53 > >> > > > > http://tinyurl.com/yku2rrp <http://tinyurl.com/yku2rrp> > >> <http://tinyurl.com/yku2rrp <http://tinyurl.com/yku2rrp>> > >> > > > > > >> > > > > This will give you some reading for the weekend, and, of > course, > >> > > > there is > >> > > > > your friend, Google, to lead you to even more > information on > >> bettas. > >> > > > > > >> > > > > \\Steve// > >> > > > > > >> > > > > > >> > > > > -----Original Message----- > >> > > > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > >> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > >> > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > >> > > > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > >> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > >> > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On > >> > > > > Behalf Of Kathy > >> > > > > Sent: Saturday, October 31, 2009 12:01 PM > >> > > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > >> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > >> > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > >> > > > > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: New betta > >> > > > > > >> > > > > Thanks, Kai. > >> > > > > There's a bit of a problem. He apparently doesn't like > Tetra > >> > > > > BettaMin > >> > > > > flakes. He won't eat them. I'm pretty sure he's hungry > cause he's > >> > > > showing > >> > > > > hunting behaviors, he's gotten really active and seems > like he's > >> > > > looking for > >> > > > > something (I've seen the exact same behavior in my snake > when > >> > > > > he's > >> > > > hungry, > >> > > > > isnt' it weird how two animals so different can act so > similar!), > >> > > > > but > >> > he > >> > > > > still won't eat the BettaMin. And I won't be able to get > back to > >> > WalMart > >> > > > > until Monday (that's when my friend is taking me to get > some > >> general > >> > > > > shopping done), unless I can sweet talk the people who are > >> giving me > >> > > > a ride > >> > > > > to church tomorrow into taking me there to pick up some > better > >> betta > >> > > > food. > >> > > > > And I don't want to seem greedy about rides, I probabaly > wouldn't > >> > > > ask cause > >> > > > > I'd feel like I was taking advantage of them. But > anyway, what > >> do I > >> > feed > >> > > > > him instead of BettaMin? > >> > > > > I was shocked to see so many bicolor bettas--I had thought > >> they were > >> > > > solid! > >> > > > > At least they were when I was a kid. I grew up on class > pets of > >> > > > > either > >> > > > > solid red or solid blue bettas, because we couldn't have > >> anything in > >> > the > >> > > > > classroom with fur or feathers. But this guy is a mix of > red and > >> > > > > blue. > >> > > > > There was a pink and iridescent white one (he looked > like an > >> > > > > opal) > >> > > > that I > >> > > > > liked a lot but he didn't look as healthy as my little guy. > >> > > > > Anyway, advice on what to feed him would be appreciated! > I can > >> tell > >> > he's > >> > > > > hungry, but he seems to be a picky eater! > >> > > > > -Kathy > >> > > > > > >> > > > > > >> > > > > > >> > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > >> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > >> > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>, "kuradi8" > <kuradi8@> wrote: > >> > > > > > > >> > > > > > "Their stomachs are about the size of their eyes." What a > >> perfect > >> > > > way to > >> > > > > explain it! Especially to kids! (And seniors like my Mom.) > >> > > > > > > >> > > > > > Enjoy your Betta. I love mine. They have so much > >> personality! Chow > >> > > > Mein > >> > > > > and Sweet-and-Sour are here in my office. Of course in > individual > >> > tanks! > >> > > > > And Kala ("Fish") is downstairs with Mom. Kala is also > red and > >> blue > >> > and > >> > > > > also from Walmart. Twins? :o) > >> > > > > > >> > > > > > > >> > > > > > Basically, as long as you're comfortable, your Betta > will be > >> too. > >> > Keep > >> > > > > him out of the sun and away from anything that can vary his > >> water's > >> > > > > temperature. > >> > > > > > > >> > > > > > Each of my tanks has a small potted aquatic plant. I > used small > >> > > > plastic > >> > > > > party cups with sand and a layer of gravel on top. To > clean the > >> > > > tank, I use > >> > > > > a length of air line hose rubber-banded to a long > chopstick so > >> I can > >> > > > vacuum > >> > > > > the bottom without having to stick my hand in the water. > >> > > > > > ~Kai > >> > > > > > > >> > > > > > > >> > > > > > > >> > > > > > > >> > > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > >> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > >> > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>, "Kathy" <kl_whitney@> > >> > > > wrote: > >> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > Ok thanks Amber. My room's pretty stable, my suitemates > >> keep the > >> > > > > thermostat for our suite at 76ish. And I don't argue, cause > >> they're > >> > all > >> > > > > thin and have less.....insulation than I do. Some days I > feel > >> like > >> > > > > I'm > >> > > > > burning up from the heat in the room, but I figure if > they're > >> > > > comfortable > >> > > > > I'd better not argue. And the only reason it feels hot > to me > >> is that > >> > my > >> > > > > parents kept the house at 68 all the winter's I've lived > with > >> them. > >> > > > > > > I'll feed him in the morning. They got the fish > shippment > >> > yesterday, > >> > > > > but I had an evening class and it snowed all afternoon so > >> yesterday > >> > > > would've > >> > > > > been a really bad day to get him. So he may have gone > without > >> food > >> > > > > for > >> > > > > several days. Their stomachs are about the size of their > eyes, > >> > > > right? So I > >> > > > > make sure the amount of food is about the same size as > his eye if > >> > > > you put it > >> > > > > all together? That's a tiny pinch, but I can figure it out. > >> > > > > > > -Kathy > >> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > >> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > >> > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>, Amber Berglund > >> > > > <arberglund@> > >> > > > wrote: > >> > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > 73 degrees should be just fine for him, as long as > your > >> > > > > > > > room > >> > > > temps do > >> > > > > > > > not flucuate more than 3 degrees through a 24 hour > period. > >> > > > > > > > Did you ask when the store fed him last, or if > they fed him > >> > > > when he > >> > > > > > > > arrived? Most likely they did not feed him yet if > you just > >> > > > picked him > >> > > > > up > >> > > > > > > > after the shipment arrived. > >> > > > > > > > If you are uncertain feed him a small meal > (betta's do > >> not eat > >> > > > very > >> > > > > much > >> > > > > > > > at all, just feed him a couple of tiny pellets or a > >> little bit > >> > of > >> > > > > > > > crushed flake food), if you're uncertain how much to > >> feed just > >> > > > start > >> > > > > out > >> > > > > > > > small and if he eats it in less than a few seconds > you > >> > > > > > > > might > >> > > > be able > >> > > > > to > >> > > > > > > > get away with feeding a little more. I feed my > betta every > >> > > > other day > >> > > > > and > >> > > > > > > > he doesn't seem to be unhealthy from it, some days I > >> feed him > >> > > > on his > >> > > > > > > > normal "off day" too, so he doesn't have too many > breaks in > >> > > > between > >> > > > > meals. > >> > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > Amber > >> > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > Kathy wrote: > >> > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > Hi all, > >> > > > > > > > > Just got back from Walmart with a new betta > about an hour > >> > > > ago. He's > >> > > > > > > > > red and blue (will post a pic as soon as I get a > camera). > >> > > > I've been > >> > > > > > > > > slowly getting him used to the bowl water, and > just about > >> > > > > > > > > five > >> > > > > minutes > >> > > > > > > > > ago I let him free in the bowl. Now he's > exploring. Two > >> > > > questions: > >> > > > > > > > > When do I give him his first meal? AND Is 73 > degrees too > >> > > > cool for > >> > > > > him? > >> > > > > > > > > That's what my thermometer is reading. > >> > > > > > > > > -Kathy > >> > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > >> > > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > ------------------------------------ > >> > > >> > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, > >> Thank You. > >> > ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , > >> > .·´¯`·..><((((º> > >> > PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT > >> important to > >> > the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message > MODIFY the > >> > SUBJECT > >> > LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- > >> > <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><· > ´¯`·.¸¸. > >> > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. > >> > > >> > If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of > >> unsubscribing, you > >> > can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My > Membership" > >> on the > >> > home page. > >> > > >> > Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com > >> <mailto:aquaticlife-digest%40yahoogroups.com> to receive the > digest, > >> which > >> > includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email > >> > > >> > Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com > >> <mailto:aquaticlife-nomail%40yahoogroups.com> for the No E-Mail > option > >> where > >> > you will still be able to read messages on the group and post > replies. > >> > > >> > Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com > >> <mailto:aquaticlife-normal%40yahoogroups.com> to receive individual > >> > e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links > >> > > >> > >> ------------------------------------ > >> > >> Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, > Thank > >> You. > >> ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .· > ´¯`·..><((((º> > >> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT > >> important to > >> the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY > the > >> SUBJECT > >> LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- > >> <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><· > ´¯`·.¸¸. > >> We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. > >> > >> If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of > unsubscribing, > >> you > >> can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My > Membership" on > >> the > >> home page. > >> > >> Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com > >> <mailto:aquaticlife-digest%40yahoogroups.com> to receive the > digest, > >> which > >> includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email > >> > >> Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com > >> <mailto:aquaticlife-nomail%40yahoogroups.com> for the No E-Mail > option > >> where > >> you will still be able to read messages on the group and post > replies. > >> > >> Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com > >> <mailto:aquaticlife-normal%40yahoogroups.com> to receive individual > >> e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links > >> > >> > > > > > > ------------------------------------ > > > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, > Thank You. > > ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..>< > ((((º> > > PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT > important to > > the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the > > SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- > > <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><· > ´¯`·.¸¸. > > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. > > > > If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of > unsubscribing, you > > can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My > Membership" on the > > home page. > > > > Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com to receive the > digest, which > > includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email > > > > Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com for the No E-Mail > option where > > you will still be able to read messages on the group and post > replies. > > > > Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com to receive individual > > e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] ------------------------------------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the home page. Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com to receive the digest, which includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com for the No E-Mail option where you will still be able to read messages on the group and post replies. Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com to receive individual e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 44159	From: Dora Smith	Date: 11/1/2009
Subject: Re: New betta

No, we aren't EATING bettas, Steve. Yours, Dora Smith Austin, TX tiggernut24@... ----- Original Message ----- From: "Steve Szabo" <steve@...> To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Sunday, November 01, 2009 12:34 PM Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: New betta Kai, You need to visit different ethnic restaurants. _Betta splendens_ is native to Cambodia, Laos, Thailand, and Vietnam. More appropriate names, off the menus, would be something like these (using just fish dishes): Cambodian: Avocat Kanthor Trey Tuk Peng Pah Trey Ang Laotian: Sorry, I wasn't able to find a Laotian restaurant using Laotian dish names Thai: PLAR LAAD PRIK HOH MOK Vietnamese: Al kinds of Pho, a noodle soup Hu Teiu My Tho Bun Oc \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of kuradi8 Sent: Sunday, November 01, 2009 7:35 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: New betta My Bettas don't care for the flakes either -- but they'll eat them if they get hungry enough. They like the "Granules" better. Also TetraMin brand -- with the dark green color coded cap. The stuff with the green cap is tough to find around here but my Walmart carries Wardley and other brands of granules so maybe yours will too. Sweet-and-Sour is a solid orange colored veil tail. (I read somewhere that orange is a hard color to breed.) And Chow Mein is a triple-double-tail crowntail. His fringe forks once, twice and then many of them fork a third time right at the tips. He's navy, royal and teal but comes out green in photographs. And don't worry, he'll eventually name himself. Mine have all had names off the Chinese take-out menu. ~Kai --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Kathy" <kl_whitney@...> wrote: > > Thanks, Kai. > There's a bit of a problem. He apparently doesn't like Tetra BettaMin flakes. He won't eat them. I'm pretty sure he's hungry cause he's showing hunting behaviors, he's gotten really active and seems like he's looking for something (I've seen the exact same behavior in my snake when he's hungry, isnt' it weird how two animals so different can act so similar!), but he still won't eat the BettaMin. And I won't be able to get back to WalMart until Monday (that's when my friend is taking me to get some general shopping done), unless I can sweet talk the people who are giving me a ride to church tomorrow into taking me there to pick up some better betta food. And I don't want to seem greedy about rides, I probabaly wouldn't ask cause I'd feel like I was taking advantage of them. But anyway, what do I feed him instead of BettaMin? > I was shocked to see so many bicolor bettas--I had thought they were solid! At least they were when I was a kid. I grew up on class pets of either solid red or solid blue bettas, because we couldn't have anything in the classroom with fur or feathers. But this guy is a mix of red and blue. There was a pink and iridescent white one (he looked like an opal) that I liked a lot but he didn't look as healthy as my little guy. > Anyway, advice on what to feed him would be appreciated! I can tell he's hungry, but he seems to be a picky eater! > -Kathy > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "kuradi8" <kuradi8@> wrote: > > > > "Their stomachs are about the size of their eyes." What a perfect way to explain it! Especially to kids! (And seniors like my Mom.) > > > > Enjoy your Betta. I love mine. They have so much personality! Chow Mein and Sweet-and-Sour are here in my office. Of course in individual tanks! And Kala ("Fish") is downstairs with Mom. Kala is also red and blue and also from Walmart. Twins? :o) > > > > Basically, as long as you're comfortable, your Betta will be too. Keep him out of the sun and away from anything that can vary his water's temperature. > > > > Each of my tanks has a small potted aquatic plant. I used small plastic party cups with sand and a layer of gravel on top. To clean the tank, I use a length of air line hose rubber-banded to a long chopstick so I can vacuum the bottom without having to stick my hand in the water. > > ~Kai > > > > > > > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Kathy" <kl_whitney@> wrote: > > > > > > Ok thanks Amber. My room's pretty stable, my suitemates keep the thermostat for our suite at 76ish. And I don't argue, cause they're all thin and have less.....insulation than I do. Some days I feel like I'm burning up from the heat in the room, but I figure if they're comfortable I'd better not argue. And the only reason it feels hot to me is that my parents kept the house at 68 all the winter's I've lived with them. > > > I'll feed him in the morning. They got the fish shippment yesterday, but I had an evening class and it snowed all afternoon so yesterday would've been a really bad day to get him. So he may have gone without food for several days. Their stomachs are about the size of their eyes, right? So I make sure the amount of food is about the same size as his eye if you put it all together? That's a tiny pinch, but I can figure it out. > > > -Kathy > > > > > > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, Amber Berglund <arberglund@> wrote: > > > > > > > > 73 degrees should be just fine for him, as long as your room temps do > > > > not flucuate more than 3 degrees through a 24 hour period. > > > > Did you ask when the store fed him last, or if they fed him when he > > > > arrived? Most likely they did not feed him yet if you just picked him up > > > > after the shipment arrived. > > > > If you are uncertain feed him a small meal (betta's do not eat very much > > > > at all, just feed him a couple of tiny pellets or a little bit of > > > > crushed flake food), if you're uncertain how much to feed just start out > > > > small and if he eats it in less than a few seconds you might be able to > > > > get away with feeding a little more. I feed my betta every other day and > > > > he doesn't seem to be unhealthy from it, some days I feed him on his > > > > normal "off day" too, so he doesn't have too many breaks in between meals. > > > > > > > > Amber > > > > > > > > Kathy wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Hi all, > > > > > Just got back from Walmart with a new betta about an hour ago. He's > > > > > red and blue (will post a pic as soon as I get a camera). I've been > > > > > slowly getting him used to the bowl water, and just about five minutes > > > > > ago I let him free in the bowl. Now he's exploring. Two questions: > > > > > When do I give him his first meal? AND Is 73 degrees too cool for him? > > > > > That's what my thermometer is reading. > > > > > -Kathy > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ------------------------------------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the home page. Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com to receive the digest, which includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com for the No E-Mail option where you will still be able to read messages on the group and post replies. Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com to receive individual e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links ------------------------------------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the home page. Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com to receive the digest, which includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com for the No E-Mail option where you will still be able to read messages on the group and post replies. Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com to receive individual e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 44160	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 11/1/2009
Subject: Re: New betta

Dora, None of the names reflect dishes with bettas in them. Kai said that the bettas under his care get names from Chinese restaurant dishes. I suggested that maybe he should use names from dishes served within the native range of bettas and gave a few examples. Pay attention to the matter in the messages that are being replied to. Makes more sense that way. \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Dora Smith Sent: Sunday, November 01, 2009 7:02 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: New betta No, we aren't EATING bettas, Steve. Yours, Dora Smith Austin, TX tiggernut24@... ----- Original Message ----- From: "Steve Szabo" <steve@...> To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Sunday, November 01, 2009 12:34 PM Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: New betta Kai, You need to visit different ethnic restaurants. _Betta splendens_ is native to Cambodia, Laos, Thailand, and Vietnam. More appropriate names, off the menus, would be something like these (using just fish dishes): Cambodian: Avocat Kanthor Trey Tuk Peng Pah Trey Ang Laotian: Sorry, I wasn't able to find a Laotian restaurant using Laotian dish names Thai: PLAR LAAD PRIK HOH MOK Vietnamese: Al kinds of Pho, a noodle soup Hu Teiu My Tho Bun Oc \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of kuradi8 Sent: Sunday, November 01, 2009 7:35 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: New betta My Bettas don't care for the flakes either -- but they'll eat them if they get hungry enough. They like the "Granules" better. Also TetraMin brand -- with the dark green color coded cap. The stuff with the green cap is tough to find around here but my Walmart carries Wardley and other brands of granules so maybe yours will too. Sweet-and-Sour is a solid orange colored veil tail. (I read somewhere that orange is a hard color to breed.) And Chow Mein is a triple-double-tail crowntail. His fringe forks once, twice and then many of them fork a third time right at the tips. He's navy, royal and teal but comes out green in photographs. And don't worry, he'll eventually name himself. Mine have all had names off the Chinese take-out menu. ~Kai --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Kathy" <kl_whitney@...> wrote: > > Thanks, Kai. > There's a bit of a problem. He apparently doesn't like Tetra BettaMin flakes. He won't eat them. I'm pretty sure he's hungry cause he's showing hunting behaviors, he's gotten really active and seems like he's looking for something (I've seen the exact same behavior in my snake when he's hungry, isnt' it weird how two animals so different can act so similar!), but he still won't eat the BettaMin. And I won't be able to get back to WalMart until Monday (that's when my friend is taking me to get some general shopping done), unless I can sweet talk the people who are giving me a ride to church tomorrow into taking me there to pick up some better betta food. And I don't want to seem greedy about rides, I probabaly wouldn't ask cause I'd feel like I was taking advantage of them. But anyway, what do I feed him instead of BettaMin? > I was shocked to see so many bicolor bettas--I had thought they were solid! At least they were when I was a kid. I grew up on class pets of either solid red or solid blue bettas, because we couldn't have anything in the classroom with fur or feathers. But this guy is a mix of red and blue. There was a pink and iridescent white one (he looked like an opal) that I liked a lot but he didn't look as healthy as my little guy. > Anyway, advice on what to feed him would be appreciated! I can tell he's hungry, but he seems to be a picky eater! > -Kathy > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "kuradi8" <kuradi8@> wrote: > > > > "Their stomachs are about the size of their eyes." What a perfect way to explain it! Especially to kids! (And seniors like my Mom.) > > > > Enjoy your Betta. I love mine. They have so much personality! Chow Mein and Sweet-and-Sour are here in my office. Of course in individual tanks! And Kala ("Fish") is downstairs with Mom. Kala is also red and blue and also from Walmart. Twins? :o) > > > > Basically, as long as you're comfortable, your Betta will be too. Keep him out of the sun and away from anything that can vary his water's temperature. > > > > Each of my tanks has a small potted aquatic plant. I used small plastic party cups with sand and a layer of gravel on top. To clean the tank, I use a length of air line hose rubber-banded to a long chopstick so I can vacuum the bottom without having to stick my hand in the water. > > ~Kai > > > > > > > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Kathy" <kl_whitney@> wrote: > > > > > > Ok thanks Amber. My room's pretty stable, my suitemates keep the thermostat for our suite at 76ish. And I don't argue, cause they're all thin and have less.....insulation than I do. Some days I feel like I'm burning up from the heat in the room, but I figure if they're comfortable I'd better not argue. And the only reason it feels hot to me is that my parents kept the house at 68 all the winter's I've lived with them. > > > I'll feed him in the morning. They got the fish shippment yesterday, but I had an evening class and it snowed all afternoon so yesterday would've been a really bad day to get him. So he may have gone without food for several days. Their stomachs are about the size of their eyes, right? So I make sure the amount of food is about the same size as his eye if you put it all together? That's a tiny pinch, but I can figure it out. > > > -Kathy > > > > > > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, Amber Berglund <arberglund@> wrote: > > > > > > > > 73 degrees should be just fine for him, as long as your room temps do > > > > not flucuate more than 3 degrees through a 24 hour period. > > > > Did you ask when the store fed him last, or if they fed him when he > > > > arrived? Most likely they did not feed him yet if you just picked him up > > > > after the shipment arrived. > > > > If you are uncertain feed him a small meal (betta's do not eat very much > > > > at all, just feed him a couple of tiny pellets or a little bit of > > > > crushed flake food), if you're uncertain how much to feed just start out > > > > small and if he eats it in less than a few seconds you might be able to > > > > get away with feeding a little more. I feed my betta every other day and > > > > he doesn't seem to be unhealthy from it, some days I feed him on his > > > > normal "off day" too, so he doesn't have too many breaks in between meals. > > > > > > > > Amber > > > > > > > > Kathy wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Hi all, > > > > > Just got back from Walmart with a new betta about an hour ago. He's > > > > > red and blue (will post a pic as soon as I get a camera). I've been > > > > > slowly getting him used to the bowl water, and just about five minutes > > > > > ago I let him free in the bowl. Now he's exploring. Two questions: > > > > > When do I give him his first meal? AND Is 73 degrees too cool for him? > > > > > That's what my thermometer is reading. > > > > > -Kathy > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ------------------------------------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the home page. 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Group: AquaticLife	Message: 44161	From: Lainey Alexander	Date: 11/1/2009
Subject: Re: New betta

I use a turkey baster to feed bloodworms and all other frozen foods to the fish in my community 37g tank. I like to steer the food toward the more shy fish like my dwarf puffer (yes he's shy) - some of the shy fish seem to get outcompeted otherwise. With the turkey baster the shy ones have learned to come over and wait by the tip for me to slowly dispense the food for them. Lainey http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com On Nov 1, 2009, at 6:34 PM, Dora Smith wrote: > To feed bloodworms? Is this for the 50 gallon tank? > > Yours, > Dora Smith > Austin, TX > tiggernut24@... > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Lainey Alexander" <lainealex@...> > To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com> > Sent: Sunday, November 01, 2009 4:20 PM > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: New betta > > I use a turkey baster:) > > Lainey > http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com > > On Nov 1, 2009, at 1:25 PM, Dora Smith wrote: > > > I'm talking about the things with bulb-like widening in one end, > > and you > > squeeze them to take up or discharge liquid - not the syringes, > > that you > > have to pull back or push a plunger. > > > > This size wuold definitely do the job. > > > > http://www.hometrainingtools.com/pipet-disposable-5-ml-10-pk/p/CE- > > PIPET/ > > > > Yours, > > Dora Smith > > Austin, TX > > tiggernut24@... > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: "Amber Berglund" <arberglund@...> > > To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com> > > Sent: Sunday, November 01, 2009 11:48 AM > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: New betta > > > > > You can get pipettes from any place that sells bird hand feeding > > > supplies. Check on drsfostersmith.com under their bird menu and > > feeding > > > supplies, they have lots of stuff to hand feed baby birds with. I > > have > > > bought them from fostersmith in the past when I was still raising > > sun > > > conures. > > > > > > Amber > > > > > > Dora Smith wrote: > > >> > > >> > > >> I thaw the bloodworms, and put in a little water (dechlorinated, > > even > > >> from > > >> the bowl), and feed with a plastic pipette. Unfortunately you > > probably > > >> have to send away to a home science supply place for some > pipettes, > > >> unless > > >> you're in a science class and the lab will let you have a > > couple, but > > >> they're likley to only have glass ones. > > >> > > >> Pipettes come in handy for measuring out your dechlorinators and > > such as > > >> well. > > >> > > >> You want a relatively large plastic pipette - 3 ml - with part > > of an end > > >> snipped off - for feeding bloodworms and other animules. > > >> > > >> Yours, > > >> Dora Smith > > >> Austin, TX > > >> tiggernut24@... <mailto:tiggernut24%40yahoo.com> > > >> ----- Original Message ----- > > >> From: "Kathy" <kl_whitney@... <mailto:kl_whitney% > > 40yahoo.com>> > > >> To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife% > > 40yahoogroups.com>> > > >> Sent: Saturday, October 31, 2009 5:13 PM > > >> Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: New betta > > >> > > >> Ok, thanks for letting me know. Would it be better to feed him > > dried > > >> bloodworms with tweezers while wearing rubber gloves? I have > > both, though > > >> the tweezers are supposed to be for shaping my eyebrows ;) and > > the gloves > > >> are the kind you wash dishes or clean bathrooms with. The gloves > > are > > >> clean, > > >> brand new, but the tweezers would need a washing before I used > > them to > > >> feed > > >> Pisces because I've been using them to shape my eyebrows. > > >> -Kathy > > >> > > >> --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > >> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>, "Steve Szabo" > > <steve@...> wrote: > > >> > > > >> > Kathy, > > >> > > > >> > Bloodworms are problematic, not from the fish's point of view, > > but > > >> yours. > > >> > Many people have allergies to the bloodworms and can break out > > in a > > >> rash > > >> > or > > >> > worse from them. People who have no allergies to them can > become > > >> allergic > > >> > over time. I would stay away from the freeze dried stuff. The > > frozen or > > >> > live > > >> > worms do not seem to carry the same effects. > > >> > > > >> > You mentioned snow in an earlier post. Were you the one > > dreaming of a > > >> > white > > >> > Halloween? > > >> > > > >> > \\Steve// > > >> > > > >> > > > >> > -----Original Message----- > > >> > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > >> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > >> [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > >> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On > > >> > Behalf Of Kathy > > >> > Sent: Saturday, October 31, 2009 5:49 PM > > >> > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife% > > 40yahoogroups.com> > > >> > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: New betta > > >> > > > >> > Well, he seemed to ignore it when I put it in there. Should I > > try again > > >> > when he's paying attention to the surface? Is it possible to > get > > >> > bloodworms > > >> > dehydrated and in a jar, so that I don't have to keep them > > frozen? That > > >> > would be a lot more convenient. > > >> > -Kathy > > >> > > > >> > > > >> > > > >> > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > >> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>, Amber Berglund > > <arberglund@> > > >> wrote: > > >> > > > > >> > > Does he notice the food when you drop it in and just ignore > > it? Mine > > >> > > will chase food that I drop in, but he ignores anything that > > floats > > >> > > on > > >> > > the surface mostly. He seems to prefer foods that sink. I > > feed mine > > >> > > omega one sinking shrimp pellets, I also feed frozen foods > > (brine > > >> > > shrimp, mysis shrimp, and their favorite bloodworms), not > > sure if > > >> > > your > > >> > > walmart will have frozen foods, but they are the best to get > > for your > > >> > > fishy. If they do not and you need to get freeze dried food > > >> instead make > > >> > > sure you rehydrate it in a little cup of water for a good 30 > > >> seconds or > > >> > > more to soak up some water before you give it to your betta, > > they can > > >> > > become easily constipated so it's best to feed them well > > hydrated > > >> foods > > >> > > just to be safe. > > >> > > I also make my own jello fish food as well, and he gets > little > > >> chunks of > > >> > > it every now and then (it has mostly frozen fish/shrimp, > frozen > > >> veggies, > > >> > > and some left over flake foods), I did no have liquid > > vitamins and > > >> such > > >> > > on hand to add to the mix this last time, they don't sell > > them in > > >> > > town > > >> > > so I have to order it. But I figure my homemade food can't > > be any > > >> worse > > >> > > than some of the flake foods out there ;) > > >> > > > > >> > > Amber > > >> > > > > >> > > Kathy wrote: > > >> > > > > > >> > > > > > >> > > > Thanks for the links, Steve! I'll check them out. Gosh, I > > need to > > >> > > > think of a name for him. Don't know what to call him. > > It'll come > > >> to me > > >> > > > though. > > >> > > > LOL now he's showing off and acting all macho for his own > > >> reflection. > > >> > > > They sure are fun to watch! > > >> > > > So if he doesn't take the BettaMin (I'v decided to give > him a > > >> few days > > >> > > > on that and see if he takes it when he is more comfortable > > with > > >> > > > me), > > >> > > > what should I buy to feed him? And does time of day make > any > > >> > > > difference in how eager he is to eat? > > >> > > > -Kathy > > >> > > > > > >> > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > >> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > >> > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>, "Steve Szabo" > > <steve@> > > >> wrote: > > >> > > > > > > >> > > > > First, you are entering the wild, crazy, wonderful > world of > > >> bettas. > > >> > > > Take a > > >> > > > > look here for just some of the color types you can see > > in bettas > > >> > > > (meaning > > >> > > > > _Betta splendens_, we'll forgo the 60 or so "wild" > types of > > >> bettas). > > >> > > > Take a > > >> > > > > look at some of the more common color types here, > > >> > > > > http://www.bettatalk.com/betta_colors.htm. > > >> <http://www.bettatalk.com/betta_colors.htm.> > > >> > > > <http://www.bettatalk.com/betta_colors.htm. > > >> <http://www.bettatalk.com/betta_colors.htm.>> I do note a gross > > >> > > > exception on > > >> > > > > this page, and that is the pastels. Oh, well, I guess you > > >> can't get > > >> > > > > everything all at once. > > >> > > > > > > >> > > > > Then, of course, you have tail types to consider, > which are > > >> > > > > listed > > >> > here: > > >> > > > > > > >> > > > > > >> > > > >> http://www.associatedcontent.com/article/433417/ > > overview_of_betta_fish_tail_ > > >> <http://www.associatedcontent.com/article/433417/ > > overview_of_betta_fish_tail_> > > >> > > > >> > > > > > >> > > > >> <http://www.associatedcontent.com/article/433417/ > > overview_of_betta_fish_tail > > >> <http://www.associatedcontent.com/article/433417/ > > overview_of_betta_fish_tail> > > >> > _> > > >> > > > > types_and.html?cat=53 > > >> > > > > http://tinyurl.com/yku2rrp <http://tinyurl.com/yku2rrp> > > >> <http://tinyurl.com/yku2rrp <http://tinyurl.com/yku2rrp>> > > >> > > > > > > >> > > > > This will give you some reading for the weekend, and, of > > course, > > >> > > > there is > > >> > > > > your friend, Google, to lead you to even more > > information on > > >> bettas. > > >> > > > > > > >> > > > > \\Steve// > > >> > > > > > > >> > > > > > > >> > > > > -----Original Message----- > > >> > > > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > >> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > >> > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > >> > > > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > >> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > >> > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On > > >> > > > > Behalf Of Kathy > > >> > > > > Sent: Saturday, October 31, 2009 12:01 PM > > >> > > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > >> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > >> > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > >> > > > > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: New betta > > >> > > > > > > >> > > > > Thanks, Kai. > > >> > > > > There's a bit of a problem. He apparently doesn't like > > Tetra > > >> > > > > BettaMin > > >> > > > > flakes. He won't eat them. I'm pretty sure he's hungry > > cause he's > > >> > > > showing > > >> > > > > hunting behaviors, he's gotten really active and seems > > like he's > > >> > > > looking for > > >> > > > > something (I've seen the exact same behavior in my snake > > when > > >> > > > > he's > > >> > > > hungry, > > >> > > > > isnt' it weird how two animals so different can act so > > similar!), > > >> > > > > but > > >> > he > > >> > > > > still won't eat the BettaMin. And I won't be able to get > > back to > > >> > WalMart > > >> > > > > until Monday (that's when my friend is taking me to get > > some > > >> general > > >> > > > > shopping done), unless I can sweet talk the people who > are > > >> giving me > > >> > > > a ride > > >> > > > > to church tomorrow into taking me there to pick up some > > better > > >> betta > > >> > > > food. > > >> > > > > And I don't want to seem greedy about rides, I probabaly > > wouldn't > > >> > > > ask cause > > >> > > > > I'd feel like I was taking advantage of them. But > > anyway, what > > >> do I > > >> > feed > > >> > > > > him instead of BettaMin? > > >> > > > > I was shocked to see so many bicolor bettas--I had > thought > > >> they were > > >> > > > solid! > > >> > > > > At least they were when I was a kid. I grew up on class > > pets of > > >> > > > > either > > >> > > > > solid red or solid blue bettas, because we couldn't have > > >> anything in > > >> > the > > >> > > > > classroom with fur or feathers. But this guy is a mix of > > red and > > >> > > > > blue. > > >> > > > > There was a pink and iridescent white one (he looked > > like an > > >> > > > > opal) > > >> > > > that I > > >> > > > > liked a lot but he didn't look as healthy as my little > guy. > > >> > > > > Anyway, advice on what to feed him would be appreciated! > > I can > > >> tell > > >> > he's > > >> > > > > hungry, but he seems to be a picky eater! > > >> > > > > -Kathy > > >> > > > > > > >> > > > > > > >> > > > > > > >> > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > >> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > >> > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>, "kuradi8" > > <kuradi8@> wrote: > > >> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > "Their stomachs are about the size of their eyes." > What a > > >> perfect > > >> > > > way to > > >> > > > > explain it! Especially to kids! (And seniors like my > Mom.) > > >> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > Enjoy your Betta. I love mine. They have so much > > >> personality! Chow > > >> > > > Mein > > >> > > > > and Sweet-and-Sour are here in my office. Of course in > > individual > > >> > tanks! > > >> > > > > And Kala ("Fish") is downstairs with Mom. Kala is also > > red and > > >> blue > > >> > and > > >> > > > > also from Walmart. Twins? :o) > > >> > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > Basically, as long as you're comfortable, your Betta > > will be > > >> too. > > >> > Keep > > >> > > > > him out of the sun and away from anything that can > vary his > > >> water's > > >> > > > > temperature. > > >> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > Each of my tanks has a small potted aquatic plant. I > > used small > > >> > > > plastic > > >> > > > > party cups with sand and a layer of gravel on top. To > > clean the > > >> > > > tank, I use > > >> > > > > a length of air line hose rubber-banded to a long > > chopstick so > > >> I can > > >> > > > vacuum > > >> > > > > the bottom without having to stick my hand in the water. > > >> > > > > > ~Kai > > >> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > >> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > >> > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>, "Kathy" > <kl_whitney@> > > >> > > > wrote: > > >> > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > Ok thanks Amber. My room's pretty stable, my > suitemates > > >> keep the > > >> > > > > thermostat for our suite at 76ish. And I don't argue, > cause > > >> they're > > >> > all > > >> > > > > thin and have less.....insulation than I do. Some days I > > feel > > >> like > > >> > > > > I'm > > >> > > > > burning up from the heat in the room, but I figure if > > they're > > >> > > > comfortable > > >> > > > > I'd better not argue. And the only reason it feels hot > > to me > > >> is that > > >> > my > > >> > > > > parents kept the house at 68 all the winter's I've lived > > with > > >> them. > > >> > > > > > > I'll feed him in the morning. They got the fish > > shippment > > >> > yesterday, > > >> > > > > but I had an evening class and it snowed all afternoon so > > >> yesterday > > >> > > > would've > > >> > > > > been a really bad day to get him. So he may have gone > > without > > >> food > > >> > > > > for > > >> > > > > several days. Their stomachs are about the size of their > > eyes, > > >> > > > right? So I > > >> > > > > make sure the amount of food is about the same size as > > his eye if > > >> > > > you put it > > >> > > > > all together? That's a tiny pinch, but I can figure it > out. > > >> > > > > > > -Kathy > > >> > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > >> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > >> > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>, Amber Berglund > > >> > > > <arberglund@> > > >> > > > wrote: > > >> > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > 73 degrees should be just fine for him, as long as > > your > > >> > > > > > > > room > > >> > > > temps do > > >> > > > > > > > not flucuate more than 3 degrees through a 24 hour > > period. > > >> > > > > > > > Did you ask when the store fed him last, or if > > they fed him > > >> > > > when he > > >> > > > > > > > arrived? Most likely they did not feed him yet if > > you just > > >> > > > picked him > > >> > > > > up > > >> > > > > > > > after the shipment arrived. > > >> > > > > > > > If you are uncertain feed him a small meal > > (betta's do > > >> not eat > > >> > > > very > > >> > > > > much > > >> > > > > > > > at all, just feed him a couple of tiny pellets or a > > >> little bit > > >> > of > > >> > > > > > > > crushed flake food), if you're uncertain how > much to > > >> feed just > > >> > > > start > > >> > > > > out > > >> > > > > > > > small and if he eats it in less than a few seconds > > you > > >> > > > > > > > might > > >> > > > be able > > >> > > > > to > > >> > > > > > > > get away with feeding a little more. I feed my > > betta every > > >> > > > other day > > >> > > > > and > > >> > > > > > > > he doesn't seem to be unhealthy from it, some > days I > > >> feed him > > >> > > > on his > > >> > > > > > > > normal "off day" too, so he doesn't have too many > > breaks in > > >> > > > between > > >> > > > > meals. > > >> > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > Amber > > >> > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > Kathy wrote: > > >> > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > Hi all, > > >> > > > > > > > > Just got back from Walmart with a new betta > > about an hour > > >> > > > ago. He's > > >> > > > > > > > > red and blue (will post a pic as soon as I get a > > camera). > > >> > > > I've been > > >> > > > > > > > > slowly getting him used to the bowl water, and > > just about > > >> > > > > > > > > five > > >> > > > > minutes > > >> > > > > > > > > ago I let him free in the bowl. Now he's > > exploring. Two > > >> > > > questions: > > >> > > > > > > > > When do I give him his first meal? AND Is 73 > > degrees too > > >> > > > cool for > > >> > > > > him? > > >> > > > > > > > > That's what my thermometer is reading. > > >> > > > > > > > > -Kathy > > >> > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > >> > > > > > >> > > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > >> > > > >> > > > >> > > > >> > ------------------------------------ > > >> > > > >> > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, > > >> Thank You. > > >> > ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , > > >> > .·´¯`·..><((((º> > > >> > PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT > > >> important to > > >> > the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message > > MODIFY the > > >> > SUBJECT > > >> > LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- > > >> > <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><· > > ´¯`·.¸¸. > > >> > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. > > >> > > > >> > If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of > > >> unsubscribing, you > > >> > can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My > > Membership" > > >> on the > > >> > home page. > > >> > > > >> > Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com > > >> <mailto:aquaticlife-digest%40yahoogroups.com> to receive the > > digest, > > >> which > > >> > includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email > > >> > > > >> > Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com > > >> <mailto:aquaticlife-nomail%40yahoogroups.com> for the No E-Mail > > option > > >> where > > >> > you will still be able to read messages on the group and post > > replies. > > >> > > > >> > Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com > > >> <mailto:aquaticlife-normal%40yahoogroups.com> to receive > individual > > >> > e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links > > >> > > > >> > > >> ------------------------------------ > > >> > > >> Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, > > Thank > > >> You. > > >> ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .· > > ´¯`·..><((((º> > > >> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT > > >> important to > > >> the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY > > the > > >> SUBJECT > > >> LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- > > >> <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><· > > ´¯`·.¸¸. > > >> We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. > > >> > > >> If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of > > unsubscribing, > > >> you > > >> can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My > > Membership" on > > >> the > > >> home page. > > >> > > >> Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com > > >> <mailto:aquaticlife-digest%40yahoogroups.com> to receive the > > digest, > > >> which > > >> includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email > > >> > > >> Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com > > >> <mailto:aquaticlife-nomail%40yahoogroups.com> for the No E-Mail > > option > > >> where > > >> you will still be able to read messages on the group and post > > replies. > > >> > > >> Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com > > >> <mailto:aquaticlife-normal%40yahoogroups.com> to receive > individual > > >> e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links > > >> > > >> > > > > > > > > > ------------------------------------ > > > > > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, > > Thank You. > > > ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..>< > > ((((º> > > > PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT > > important to > > > the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message > MODIFY the > > > SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- > > > <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><· > > ´¯`·.¸¸. > > > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. > > > > > > If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of > > unsubscribing, you > > > can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My > > Membership" on the > > > home page. > > > > > > Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com to receive the > > digest, which > > > includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email > > > > > > Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com for the No E-Mail > > option where > > > you will still be able to read messages on the group and post > > replies. > > > > > > Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com to receive individual > > > e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > ------------------------------------ > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, > Thank You. > ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..>< > ((((º> > PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT > important to > the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY > the SUBJECT > LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- > <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><· > ´¯`·.¸¸. > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. > > If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of > unsubscribing, you > can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My Membership" > on the > home page. > > Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com to receive the digest, > which > includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email > > Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com for the No E-Mail > option where > you will still be able to read messages on the group and post replies. > > Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com to receive individual > e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 44162	From: Sam Palermo	Date: 11/1/2009
Subject: Re: Fluval 305 issues

Hi Chris; I have a number of this brands filters. If yours has an impeller built into the top cover, the first thing to check is is the impeller cover is crack thus not providing a center place for the magnet. If this is OK, then make sure the depth of the impeller is correct. After a lot of use they sink in sometimes. I have also had the unit start with some shock on the side of the impeller housing with you hand not a hard object. It is not wise to start then without water as this is the hardest part to get out of the assembly to get the pump to work well. I usually take the out hose into a bucket and before starting get all the air out by tipping the filter so air goes out the exit output. This may sound like a lot of trouble but I have had some of my filter for years and only one of them is working without the internal pump section- it now has a Mag drive 350 on the outside to pull water through. This has been going for two years this was and it works as well as the internal if not better- it has issues with air too. I have bot done it yet but like plumbing for heater systems, A vertical T might help air get trapped and leave the pump running better- another experiment. If the Impeller cover is broken which is common then I have held broken ones in with a modified brass rod and it works just as well. Just some of my many secrets. Also, the impeller does spin in a disassembled condition if plugged in for a short time. That is a way to test if there is something wrong with the unit. The pump that stopped on me was due to the external pole pieces heating and closing the diameter of the hole thus not allowing the impeller to rotate any more. Best regards, Sam Palermo, Chief Engineer Skywave Broadcast Engineering, Chicago Ldyminx wrote: > > > Was just given a used Fluval 305, cleaned it out (it was pretty > hideous) and reassembled, now it makes a horrendous gurgling sound! > > I have two others of the very same make and haven't had this prob > before. Closed the valves, took off the top, cleaned out the three > baskets that were pretty much filled with solid gunk, washed out and > replaced the foam filters, reassembled, reattached pipes, and started > pumping out the air and started it back up. It's not pumping in water > and although the directions always say don't start pump with water > already in it I'm wondering ikf I should give it a try. > > What's the groups general consensus? > > Frustrated with filters, > > Chris in Northern VA > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 44163	From: Kathy	Date: 11/2/2009
Subject: Thank you everyone

Thanks to all for the advice on bettas. It's been really helpful. I'm going to get some bloodworms or brine shrimp (that seems to be his favorite part of the BettaMin) if Walmart has them when I go today. Oh, and Kai, he did acquire a name--Pisces. You must've missed the posts where I mentioned his name. Though now that I think about it, the word Pisces is plural in Latin, the singular is Piscis. But I don't like the sound of Piscis, so I'm keeping it at Pisces. He's a good fish, very pretty and very curious about what I'm doing, he's constantly peoplewatching. -Kathy P.S. I have a five day weekend for Thanksgiving. I think I need to take him home with mr if I'll be gone longer than three days, but my mom thinks that'll be too much hassle. Am I right? Or is she right that he'll be fine without me for five days and I shouldn't go to the trouble of getting him home?

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 44164	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 11/2/2009
Subject: Re: Thank you everyone

I should not be answering this since I am already late for getting down to the office. If he is well fed, and the room temperature will not be much lower than it is now, he will do fine, though he will be hungry when you get back. The important thing is the room temp. I know a lot of places turn the temp way down when there will be no people in the building, so you will need to find out how your school handles it. Likely, you will be OK since there probably be a number who do not go home for Thanksgiving. I know I didn't a few times, because of the hassle of getting there and back in time. \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Kathy Sent: Monday, November 02, 2009 7:46 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Thank you everyone Thanks to all for the advice on bettas. It's been really helpful. I'm going to get some bloodworms or brine shrimp (that seems to be his favorite part of the BettaMin) if Walmart has them when I go today. Oh, and Kai, he did acquire a name--Pisces. You must've missed the posts where I mentioned his name. Though now that I think about it, the word Pisces is plural in Latin, the singular is Piscis. But I don't like the sound of Piscis, so I'm keeping it at Pisces. He's a good fish, very pretty and very curious about what I'm doing, he's constantly peoplewatching. -Kathy P.S. I have a five day weekend for Thanksgiving. I think I need to take him home with mr if I'll be gone longer than three days, but my mom thinks that'll be too much hassle. Am I right? Or is she right that he'll be fine without me for five days and I shouldn't go to the trouble of getting him home?

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 44165	From: Dora Smith	Date: 11/2/2009
Subject: Re: [Bulk] RE: [AquaticLife] Re: New betta

Oh. Very easy to get confused. Yours, Dora Smith Austin, TX tiggernut24@... ----- Original Message ----- From: "Steve Szabo" <steve@...> To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Sunday, November 01, 2009 7:29 PM Subject: [Bulk] RE: [AquaticLife] Re: New betta Dora, None of the names reflect dishes with bettas in them. Kai said that the bettas under his care get names from Chinese restaurant dishes. I suggested that maybe he should use names from dishes served within the native range of bettas and gave a few examples. Pay attention to the matter in the messages that are being replied to. Makes more sense that way. \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Dora Smith Sent: Sunday, November 01, 2009 7:02 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: New betta No, we aren't EATING bettas, Steve. Yours, Dora Smith Austin, TX tiggernut24@... ----- Original Message ----- From: "Steve Szabo" <steve@...> To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Sunday, November 01, 2009 12:34 PM Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: New betta Kai, You need to visit different ethnic restaurants. _Betta splendens_ is native to Cambodia, Laos, Thailand, and Vietnam. More appropriate names, off the menus, would be something like these (using just fish dishes): Cambodian: Avocat Kanthor Trey Tuk Peng Pah Trey Ang Laotian: Sorry, I wasn't able to find a Laotian restaurant using Laotian dish names Thai: PLAR LAAD PRIK HOH MOK Vietnamese: Al kinds of Pho, a noodle soup Hu Teiu My Tho Bun Oc \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of kuradi8 Sent: Sunday, November 01, 2009 7:35 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: New betta My Bettas don't care for the flakes either -- but they'll eat them if they get hungry enough. They like the "Granules" better. Also TetraMin brand -- with the dark green color coded cap. The stuff with the green cap is tough to find around here but my Walmart carries Wardley and other brands of granules so maybe yours will too. Sweet-and-Sour is a solid orange colored veil tail. (I read somewhere that orange is a hard color to breed.) And Chow Mein is a triple-double-tail crowntail. His fringe forks once, twice and then many of them fork a third time right at the tips. He's navy, royal and teal but comes out green in photographs. And don't worry, he'll eventually name himself. Mine have all had names off the Chinese take-out menu. ~Kai --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Kathy" <kl_whitney@...> wrote: > > Thanks, Kai. > There's a bit of a problem. He apparently doesn't like Tetra BettaMin flakes. He won't eat them. I'm pretty sure he's hungry cause he's showing hunting behaviors, he's gotten really active and seems like he's looking for something (I've seen the exact same behavior in my snake when he's hungry, isnt' it weird how two animals so different can act so similar!), but he still won't eat the BettaMin. And I won't be able to get back to WalMart until Monday (that's when my friend is taking me to get some general shopping done), unless I can sweet talk the people who are giving me a ride to church tomorrow into taking me there to pick up some better betta food. And I don't want to seem greedy about rides, I probabaly wouldn't ask cause I'd feel like I was taking advantage of them. But anyway, what do I feed him instead of BettaMin? > I was shocked to see so many bicolor bettas--I had thought they were solid! At least they were when I was a kid. I grew up on class pets of either solid red or solid blue bettas, because we couldn't have anything in the classroom with fur or feathers. But this guy is a mix of red and blue. There was a pink and iridescent white one (he looked like an opal) that I liked a lot but he didn't look as healthy as my little guy. > Anyway, advice on what to feed him would be appreciated! I can tell he's hungry, but he seems to be a picky eater! > -Kathy > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "kuradi8" <kuradi8@> wrote: > > > > "Their stomachs are about the size of their eyes." What a perfect way to explain it! Especially to kids! (And seniors like my Mom.) > > > > Enjoy your Betta. I love mine. They have so much personality! Chow Mein and Sweet-and-Sour are here in my office. Of course in individual tanks! And Kala ("Fish") is downstairs with Mom. Kala is also red and blue and also from Walmart. Twins? :o) > > > > Basically, as long as you're comfortable, your Betta will be too. Keep him out of the sun and away from anything that can vary his water's temperature. > > > > Each of my tanks has a small potted aquatic plant. I used small plastic party cups with sand and a layer of gravel on top. To clean the tank, I use a length of air line hose rubber-banded to a long chopstick so I can vacuum the bottom without having to stick my hand in the water. > > ~Kai > > > > > > > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Kathy" <kl_whitney@> wrote: > > > > > > Ok thanks Amber. My room's pretty stable, my suitemates keep the thermostat for our suite at 76ish. And I don't argue, cause they're all thin and have less.....insulation than I do. Some days I feel like I'm burning up from the heat in the room, but I figure if they're comfortable I'd better not argue. And the only reason it feels hot to me is that my parents kept the house at 68 all the winter's I've lived with them. > > > I'll feed him in the morning. They got the fish shippment yesterday, but I had an evening class and it snowed all afternoon so yesterday would've been a really bad day to get him. So he may have gone without food for several days. Their stomachs are about the size of their eyes, right? So I make sure the amount of food is about the same size as his eye if you put it all together? That's a tiny pinch, but I can figure it out. > > > -Kathy > > > > > > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, Amber Berglund <arberglund@> wrote: > > > > > > > > 73 degrees should be just fine for him, as long as your room temps do > > > > not flucuate more than 3 degrees through a 24 hour period. > > > > Did you ask when the store fed him last, or if they fed him when he > > > > arrived? Most likely they did not feed him yet if you just picked him up > > > > after the shipment arrived. > > > > If you are uncertain feed him a small meal (betta's do not eat very much > > > > at all, just feed him a couple of tiny pellets or a little bit of > > > > crushed flake food), if you're uncertain how much to feed just start out > > > > small and if he eats it in less than a few seconds you might be able to > > > > get away with feeding a little more. I feed my betta every other day and > > > > he doesn't seem to be unhealthy from it, some days I feed him on his > > > > normal "off day" too, so he doesn't have too many breaks in between meals. > > > > > > > > Amber > > > > > > > > Kathy wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Hi all, > > > > > Just got back from Walmart with a new betta about an hour ago. He's > > > > > red and blue (will post a pic as soon as I get a camera). I've been > > > > > slowly getting him used to the bowl water, and just about five minutes > > > > > ago I let him free in the bowl. Now he's exploring. Two questions: > > > > > When do I give him his first meal? AND Is 73 degrees too cool for him? > > > > > That's what my thermometer is reading. > > > > > -Kathy > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ------------------------------------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the home page. Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com to receive the digest, which includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com for the No E-Mail option where you will still be able to read messages on the group and post replies. Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com to receive individual e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links ------------------------------------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the home page. Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com to receive the digest, which includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com for the No E-Mail option where you will still be able to read messages on the group and post replies. Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com to receive individual e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links ------------------------------------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the home page. Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com to receive the digest, which includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com for the No E-Mail option where you will still be able to read messages on the group and post replies. Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com to receive individual e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links ------------------------------------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the home page. Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com to receive the digest, which includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com for the No E-Mail option where you will still be able to read messages on the group and post replies. Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com to receive individual e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 44166	From: pam andress	Date: 11/2/2009
Subject: Re: Thank you everyone

You could tke him home very easily. Get yourself some type of container like a coolwhip bowl. Put him in it with his water and put the top on. Easy carry take home travel case. :) He can just stay in that until you get back to school. Just make sure it is deep enough for him to be fully covered. Look at what they are kept in a Wal Mart. They are even smaller. Pam To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com From: kl_whitney@... Date: Mon, 2 Nov 2009 12:45:38 +0000 Subject: [AquaticLife] Thank you everyone Thanks to all for the advice on bettas. It's been really helpful. I'm going to get some bloodworms or brine shrimp (that seems to be his favorite part of the BettaMin) if Walmart has them when I go today. Oh, and Kai, he did acquire a name--Pisces. You must've missed the posts where I mentioned his name. Though now that I think about it, the word Pisces is plural in Latin, the singular is Piscis. But I don't like the sound of Piscis, so I'm keeping it at Pisces. He's a good fish, very pretty and very curious about what I'm doing, he's constantly peoplewatching. -Kathy P.S. I have a five day weekend for Thanksgiving. I think I need to take him home with mr if I'll be gone longer than three days, but my mom thinks that'll be too much hassle. Am I right? Or is she right that he'll be fine without me for five days and I shouldn't go to the trouble of getting him home? [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 44167	From: bill 1433	Date: 11/2/2009
Subject: Re: Thank you everyone

also a ladies plastic shoe box will work quite well.   Bill --- On Mon, 11/2/09, pam andress <pamandress23@...> wrote: From: pam andress <pamandress23@...> Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Thank you everyone To: aquaticlife@yahoogroups.com Date: Monday, November 2, 2009, 11:19 AM You could tke him home very easily. Get yourself some type of container like a coolwhip bowl. Put him in it with his water and put the top on. Easy carry take home travel case. :) He can just stay in that until you get back to school. Just make sure it is deep enough for him to be fully covered. Look at what they are kept in a Wal Mart. They are even smaller. Pam To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com From: kl_whitney@... Date: Mon, 2 Nov 2009 12:45:38 +0000 Subject: [AquaticLife] Thank you everyone   Thanks to all for the advice on bettas. It's been really helpful. I'm going to get some bloodworms or brine shrimp (that seems to be his favorite part of the BettaMin) if Walmart has them when I go today. Oh, and Kai, he did acquire a name--Pisces. You must've missed the posts where I mentioned his name. Though now that I think about it, the word Pisces is plural in Latin, the singular is Piscis. But I don't like the sound of Piscis, so I'm keeping it at Pisces. He's a good fish, very pretty and very curious about what I'm doing, he's constantly peoplewatching. -Kathy P.S. I have a five day weekend for Thanksgiving. I think I need to take him home with mr if I'll be gone longer than three days, but my mom thinks that'll be too much hassle. Am I right? Or is she right that he'll be fine without me for five days and I shouldn't go to the trouble of getting him home?                           [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] ------------------------------------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the home page.  Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com to receive the digest, which includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com for the No E-Mail option where you will still be able to read messages on the group and post replies. Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com to receive individual e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 44168	From: Courtland	Date: 11/2/2009
Subject: marineland c series canisters

does anyone own these filters? how are they? heard a lot of bad things about leaks and would like to know if those are issues with the actual filter or people just messing them up? and any other info you can provide about them to help me make my decision

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 44169	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 11/2/2009
Subject: Re: Thank you everyone

Wow, we're in the stone ages up here in Alaska, I didn't even know they had plastic shoe boxes ;) LOL. Amber bill 1433 wrote: > > > also a ladies plastic shoe box will work quite well. > > Bill > > --- On Mon, 11/2/09, pam andress <pamandress23@... > <mailto:pamandress23%40hotmail.com>> wrote: > > From: pam andress <pamandress23@... > <mailto:pamandress23%40hotmail.com>> > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Thank you everyone > To: aquaticlife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:aquaticlife%40yahoogroups.com> > Date: Monday, November 2, 2009, 11:19 AM > > You could tke him home very easily. Get yourself some type of > container like a coolwhip bowl. Put him in it with his water and put > the top on. Easy carry take home travel case. :) He can just stay in > that until you get back to school. > Just make sure it is deep enough for him to be fully covered. Look at > what they are kept in a Wal Mart. They are even smaller. > > Pam > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > From: kl_whitney@... <mailto:kl_whitney%40yahoo.com> > Date: Mon, 2 Nov 2009 12:45:38 +0000 > Subject: [AquaticLife] Thank you everyone > > > > Thanks to all for the advice on bettas. It's been really helpful. I'm > going to get some bloodworms or brine shrimp (that seems to be his > favorite part of the BettaMin) if Walmart has them when I go today. > Oh, and Kai, he did acquire a name--Pisces. You must've missed the > posts where I mentioned his name. Though now that I think about it, > the word Pisces is plural in Latin, the singular is Piscis. But I > don't like the sound of Piscis, so I'm keeping it at Pisces. He's a > good fish, very pretty and very curious about what I'm doing, he's > constantly peoplewatching. > -Kathy > P.S. I have a five day weekend for Thanksgiving. I think I need to > take him home with mr if I'll be gone longer than three days, but my > mom thinks that'll be too much hassle. Am I right? Or is she right > that he'll be fine without me for five days and I shouldn't go to the > trouble of getting him home? > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > ------------------------------------ > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. > ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> > PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT > important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message > MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- > <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. > > If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of unsubscribing, > you can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My > Membership" on the home page. > > Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:aquaticlife-digest%40yahoogroups.com> to receive the digest, > which includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email > > Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:aquaticlife-nomail%40yahoogroups.com> for the No E-Mail option > where you will still be able to read messages on the group and post > replies. > > Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:aquaticlife-normal%40yahoogroups.com> to receive individual > e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 44170	From: yofiguy	Date: 11/2/2009
Subject: ozone or skimmer alone

I am building a salt water system and have been wondering if an ozone pump is needed if I get a good skimmer. the system will be a 55 gallon display tank 30 gallon being turmed into a wet/dry sump a 15 refug. and a 10 for brine shrimp and algae

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 44171	From: Springer,James C.	Date: 11/2/2009
Subject: Re: marineland c series canisters

> From: Courtland > does anyone own these filters? how are they? heard a lot of bad > things about leaks and would like to know if those are issues with the actual > filter or people just messing them up? and any other info you can provide > about them to help me make my decision I've owned a C360 since Jun 2008. I started noticing a leak at beginning of Sep 2009. I figured I might just need a new set of gaskets. I contacted Marineland about either lubing the gaskets and/or replacing them. First, they indicated a little silicone lube would be a good thing. Disappointing was finding there was not replacement gasket (o-ring) for the main motor-head. However, they indicated to me they thought it might be the valve-block was not seating properly anymore (they explained why that would cause the leak I was seeing from the latch). They asked me for the lot number and they would send me a replacement valve block. As it turns out they ended up sending me the entire motor-head (the operational part of the canister) and the valve-block as a replacement! They never asked for proof of purchase and they were always very responsive with our email discourse (I received replies back either same or next day from them.) So my bottom-line, even though it was disappointing to see a leak develop within this timeframe, their customer support was top notch and they took care of my problem. I would highly recommend based on this alone. And if it hadn't been for the leak, I would state I've had no problems otherwise, it has worked great before and after that. My knowledge gained; I did add silicone lube first thing around all the o-rings on this new assembly. I can't tell you if Marineland had specific production run problems or not with my lot (I didn't ask). Just to find great customer service, though it should be the rule, seems to be the exception unfortunately and that to me is worth its weight in gold. Jim PS. I changed out the motorhead and valve block 3 or 4 weeks ago and all is good. E-MAIL CONFIDENTIALITY NOTICE: The contents of this e-mail message and any attachments are intended solely for the addressee(s) and may contain confidential and/or legally privileged information. If you are not the intended recipient of this message or if this message has been addressed to you in error, please immediately alert the sender by reply e-mail and then delete this message and any attachments. If you are not the intended recipient, you are notified that any use, dissemination, distribution, copying, or storage of this message or any attachment is strictly prohibited.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 44172	From: Lainey Alexander	Date: 11/2/2009
Subject: WARNING on Arizona Aquatic Gardens

I feel obligated to let everyone know that I have just found out that Arizona Aquatic Gardens has been continuing to charge my visa for the past month - several charges for things I never ordered. They have now racked up nearly 200 dollars worth of fraudulent charges. I am going to have VISA go into their bank account and reclaim the money, but I wanted to warn people: please be careful here and do not let these people get hold of your credit card information. Lainey http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 44173	From: Lisa	Date: 11/3/2009
Subject: Fry in unfilterd/unheated tank

I put my swordtail and guppy fry in to a 12 inch tank, with no gravel, heater, light or filter. But the tank is sitting by a window,, and has a single tank ornament in it. I do not plan on keeping them in here more then a week, until i can trade them into my lfs. I do not have a larger tank big enough in order to fit in the aformentioned equipment. I have done this more out of conveniance, and to make it easier to manage when i trade them in Has anyone ever done something similar as a short term solution? Lisa

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 44174	From: Donna Ransome	Date: 11/3/2009
Subject: Re: Fry in unfilterd/unheated tank

No. _____ From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Lisa Sent: Tuesday, November 03, 2009 3:14 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Fry in unfilterd/unheated tank I put my swordtail and guppy fry in to a 12 inch tank, with no gravel, heater, light or filter. But the tank is sitting by a window,, and has a single tank ornament in it. I do not plan on keeping them in here more then a week, until i can trade them into my lfs. I do not have a larger tank big enough in order to fit in the aformentioned equipment. I have done this more out of conveniance, and to make it easier to manage when i trade them in Has anyone ever done something similar as a short term solution? Lisa [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 44175	From: mattyobones	Date: 11/3/2009
Subject: Re: Fry in unfilterd/unheated tank

--- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Lisa" <lisa_lawless2004@...> wrote: > if you live in fla. no problem as long as you change water and keep the tank clean every day. if you live up north and you have a large heated tank float the small one in it but still do as mentioned above. > I put my swordtail and guppy fry in to a 12 inch tank, with no gravel, heater, light or filter. But the tank is sitting by a window,, and has a single tank ornament in it. > > I do not plan on keeping them in here more then a week, until i can trade them into my lfs. I do not have a larger tank big enough in order to fit in the aformentioned equipment. > > I have done this more out of conveniance, and to make it easier to manage when i trade them in > > Has anyone ever done something similar as a short term solution? > > Lisa >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 44176	From: Poul Wehner	Date: 11/3/2009
Subject: Re: marineland c series canisters

I've had a C-360 for over a year. The first time I changed the charcoal I noticed one of the rubber/vinyl gaskets had decayed and the unit no longer could maintain flow. I contacted Marineland and they sent out a replacement ring kit within 3 days. It was one of the most responsive customer support situations I've ever encountered. A+++ would buy again :-) On Mon, Nov 2, 2009 at 1:56 PM, Springer,James C. <james.springer@...>wrote: > > > > From: Courtland > > > > does anyone own these filters? how are they? heard a lot of bad > > things about leaks and would like to know if those are issues with the > actual > > filter or people just messing them up? and any other info you can > provide > > about them to help me make my decision > > I've owned a C360 since Jun 2008. I started noticing a leak at beginning > of Sep 2009. I figured I might just need a new set of gaskets. I > contacted Marineland about either lubing the gaskets and/or replacing > them. > > First, they indicated a little silicone lube would be a good thing. > Disappointing was finding there was not replacement gasket (o-ring) for > the main motor-head. However, they indicated to me they thought it might > be the valve-block was not seating properly anymore (they explained why > that would cause the leak I was seeing from the latch). They asked me > for the lot number and they would send me a replacement valve block. As > it turns out they ended up sending me the entire motor-head (the > operational part of the canister) and the valve-block as a replacement! > > They never asked for proof of purchase and they were always very > responsive with our email discourse (I received replies back either same > or next day from them.) > > So my bottom-line, even though it was disappointing to see a leak > develop within this timeframe, their customer support was top notch and > they took care of my problem. I would highly recommend based on this > alone. And if it hadn't been for the leak, I would state I've had no > problems otherwise, it has worked great before and after that. > > My knowledge gained; I did add silicone lube first thing around all the > o-rings on this new assembly. I can't tell you if Marineland had > specific production run problems or not with my lot (I didn't ask). Just > to find great customer service, though it should be the rule, seems to > be the exception unfortunately and that to me is worth its weight in > gold. > > Jim > > PS. I changed out the motorhead and valve block 3 or 4 weeks ago and all > is good. > > E-MAIL CONFIDENTIALITY NOTICE: The contents of this e-mail message and any > attachments are intended solely for the > addressee(s) and may contain confidential and/or legally privileged > information. If you are not the > intended recipient of this message or if this message has been addressed to > you in error, please > immediately alert the sender by reply e-mail and then delete this message > and any attachments. If you > are not the intended recipient, you are notified that any use, > dissemination, distribution, copying, or > storage of this message or any attachment is strictly prohibited. > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 44177	From: Lisa	Date: 11/3/2009
Subject: I’m just curious...

Is it common for a female swordtail to be aggressive towards males? I have two pineapple females, and one male. One female in particular, is a great deal bigger then the other female and the male, she was one of the first fish I got when I set up my tank back in March. And she's definitely the `queen of the tank' Lisa

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 44178	From: gailsugarpants	Date: 11/3/2009
Subject: Re: WARNING on Arizona Aquatic Gardens

OMG! That is horrible! I hope you cancelled that card and got a new one so they quit ripping you off ;0 -gail --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, Lainey Alexander <lainealex@...> wrote: > > I feel obligated to let everyone know that I have just found out that > Arizona Aquatic Gardens has been continuing to charge my visa for the > past month - several charges for things I never ordered. They have > now racked up nearly 200 dollars worth of fraudulent charges. I am > going to have VISA go into their bank account and reclaim the money, > but I wanted to warn people: please be careful here and do not let > these people get hold of your credit card information. > > > Lainey > http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 44179	From: gailsugarpants	Date: 11/3/2009
Subject: Re: Severum Behavior - updated

So my Severum has quit the back and forth behavior and just hides now under the rock with it's BP buddy. Now -- ponder this: would a Severum and a Blood Parrot try to mate? Just out of curiosity sake. I am starting to think that my BP might be a Female, and possibly my Severum is a male. They have been hanging out together a lot in the hiding spot under the rock. The severum still keeps it's top and bottom fins clamped. Any ideas? Ponder it and tell me what you think :) -gail --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "gailsugarpants" <gail.johnson2@...> wrote: > > Thanks so much for your positive feedback. My temp for my tank currently runs 74-76 degrees F. When I do my PWC I do try to use warmer water, the temp gets to 78 after my PWC. Then, it evens out to my avg. temp. I am actually going to get a pair of heaters soon, as the temps in Utah are now dipping to 32 outside! And it snowed yesterday :( > Since my initial post, my Severum has gone from the neurotic behavior, to hiding. And She is not being terrorized by any other fish, in fact her and my BP are buddies. But I did try to get her out of her hiding spot (with my hand) and she jumped and so did the Pictus! lol And she has been eating, but mostly hiding. > > thanks, > Gail

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 44180	From: bruce c	Date: 11/3/2009
Subject: seachem

has a new product line called aqua vitro. It is not sold online and the local fish stores should have it . if not call 1-800-seachem they will find a store in your area that has it the products are for marine use only though.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 44181	From: sevenspringss@wmconnect.com	Date: 11/3/2009
Subject: Re: Severum Behavior - updated

Gail, I still cannot come up with a reason for your Severum's strange behavior, and especially a rationale for its holding its fins clamped except to say its neurotic as you're suggesting. One other possibility for this odd behavior could be this fish's adversion to bright lighting. There are a number of South American Cichlids that have evolved in tannic water conditions, which do not appreciate bright lighting as a result of their having been a product of nature under these conditions which do not promote as much illumination in their environment. Some of them, such as Uaru's (Uaru amphiacanthoides and U. fernandezyepezi) are often seen as shy and retiring when not given similar lighting conditions as are found in their natural habitat, but instead are subjected to more harsh brighter lighting in the aquarium which they just do not like. Severums are not one of these more timid species and generally don't behave in this manner, but you may just have an individual there which would rather get away from strong lighting, especially if by chance this is what you have. The hybrid, Blood Parrot Cichlid, is the man-made result of the cross between the Severum and the Red Devil, so having 50% Severum genes in its make-up, yes -- it's extremely possible for your Severum and your Blood Parrot to pair up and attempt to spawn. Such a spawning may not necessarily be successful, as many Blood Parrots are infertile as a result of their being a hybrid, but the possibility of a fertile spawning still does exist. Ray [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 44182	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 11/4/2009
Subject: Re: WARNING on Arizona Aquatic Gardens

Sounds like they're back to their old tricks... although I've never heard this particular complaint. Things I've seen in the past, several years ago, was charging a BIG shipping charge that was not fully disclosed during the *Checkout* process. This sounds like another good reason to get a One-Time only account number from your bank's website when shopping online OR for using PayPal when shopping online so that you do not even give out your account numbers to online vendors. I use either of these two methods depending on whether I'm charging something (for bigger ticket items) or just paying for it from my regular checking account. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Lainey Alexander Sent: Tuesday, November 03, 2009 12:32 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] WARNING on Arizona Aquatic Gardens I feel obligated to let everyone know that I have just found out that Arizona Aquatic Gardens has been continuing to charge my visa for the past month - several charges for things I never ordered. They have now racked up nearly 200 dollars worth of fraudulent charges. I am going to have VISA go into their bank account and reclaim the money, but I wanted to warn people: please be careful here and do not let these people get hold of your credit card information. Lainey http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 44183	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 11/4/2009
Subject: Re: Severum Behavior - updated

It could be that he is acting shy/withdrawn because the other fish are taunting him about his girlfriend... http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uxoWto09Oyg Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of sevenspringss@... Sent: Tuesday, November 03, 2009 11:24 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: Severum Behavior - updated Gail, I still cannot come up with a reason for your Severum's strange behavior, and especially a rationale for its holding its fins clamped except to say its neurotic as you're suggesting. One other possibility for this odd behavior could be this fish's adversion to bright lighting. There are a number of South American Cichlids that have evolved in tannic water conditions, which do not appreciate bright lighting as a result of their having been a product of nature under these conditions which do not promote as much illumination in their environment. Some of them, such as Uaru's (Uaru amphiacanthoides and U. fernandezyepezi) are often seen as shy and retiring when not given similar lighting conditions as are found in their natural habitat, but instead are subjected to more harsh brighter lighting in the aquarium which they just do not like. Severums are not one of these more timid species and generally don't behave in this manner, but you may just have an individual there which would rather get away from strong lighting, especially if by chance this is what you have. The hybrid, Blood Parrot Cichlid, is the man-made result of the cross between the Severum and the Red Devil, so having 50% Severum genes in its make-up, yes -- it's extremely possible for your Severum and your Blood Parrot to pair up and attempt to spawn. Such a spawning may not necessarily be successful, as many Blood Parrots are infertile as a result of their being a hybrid, but the possibility of a fertile spawning still does exist. Ray

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 44184	From: Lainey Alexander	Date: 11/4/2009
Subject: Re: WARNING on Arizona Aquatic Gardens

We'll see what happens when VISA issues them a penalty and withdraws funds from their bank account. I have already been credited for the false charges by VISA, but now they will go to AAG and get the funds back from them as well as issuing the penalty. I suppose AAG could come back at me - for what I don't know... In past cases like this, VISA has protected me well - so far. There are lots of BBB complaints against AAG - I don't understand how or why such a company can continue to operate with all the BBB complaints that have been filed over the years. I thought the website looked beautiful and trustworthy, and I would guess that this is happening to others every day. Lainey http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com On Nov 4, 2009, at 10:45 AM, Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > Sounds like they're back to their old tricks... although I've never > heard > this particular complaint. Things I've seen in the past, several > years ago, > was charging a BIG shipping charge that was not fully disclosed > during the > *Checkout* process. > > This sounds like another good reason to get a One-Time only account > number > from your bank's website when shopping online OR for using PayPal when > shopping online so that you do not even give out your account > numbers to > online vendors. I use either of these two methods depending on > whether I'm > charging something (for bigger ticket items) or just paying for it > from my > regular checking account. > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the > right > side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, > Month) > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On > Behalf Of Lainey Alexander > Sent: Tuesday, November 03, 2009 12:32 AM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Subject: [AquaticLife] WARNING on Arizona Aquatic Gardens > > I feel obligated to let everyone know that I have just found out that > Arizona Aquatic Gardens has been continuing to charge my visa for > the past > month - several charges for things I never ordered. They have now > racked up > nearly 200 dollars worth of fraudulent charges. I am going to have > VISA go > into their bank account and reclaim the money, but I wanted to warn > people: > please be careful here and do not let these people get hold of your > credit > card information. > > Lainey > http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 44185	From: bill 1433	Date: 11/4/2009
Subject: Re: WARNING on Arizona Aquatic Gardens

Food for thought here Len and a very good idea!   Bill --- On Wed, 11/4/09, Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@...> wrote: From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@...> Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] WARNING on Arizona Aquatic Gardens To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Date: Wednesday, November 4, 2009, 10:45 AM Sounds like they're back to their old tricks... although I've never heard this particular complaint.  Things I've seen in the past, several years ago, was charging a BIG shipping charge that was not fully disclosed during the *Checkout* process. This sounds like another good reason to get a One-Time only account number from your bank's website when shopping online OR for using PayPal when shopping online so that you do not even give out your account numbers to online vendors.  I use either of these two methods depending on whether I'm charging something (for bigger ticket items) or just paying for it from my regular checking account. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Lainey Alexander Sent: Tuesday, November 03, 2009 12:32 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] WARNING on Arizona Aquatic Gardens I feel obligated to let everyone know that I have just found out that Arizona Aquatic Gardens has been continuing to charge my visa for the past month - several charges for things I never ordered. They have now racked up nearly 200 dollars worth of fraudulent charges. I am going to have VISA go into their bank account and reclaim the money, but I wanted to warn people: please be careful here and do not let these people get hold of your credit card information. Lainey http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com ------------------------------------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the home page.  Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com to receive the digest, which includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com for the No E-Mail option where you will still be able to read messages on the group and post replies. Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com to receive individual e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 44186	From: gailsugarpants	Date: 11/4/2009
Subject: Re: Severum Behavior - updated

lol that is too damn funny! I think that you just wanted to drudge up an old Cher video! lol -gail --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@...> wrote: > > It could be that he is acting shy/withdrawn because the other fish are > taunting him about his girlfriend... > http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uxoWto09Oyg > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right > side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) > > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On > Behalf Of sevenspringss@... > Sent: Tuesday, November 03, 2009 11:24 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: Severum Behavior - updated > > Gail, I still cannot come up with a reason for your Severum's strange > behavior, and especially a rationale for its holding its fins clamped except > to say its neurotic as you're suggesting. One other possibility for this > odd behavior could be this fish's adversion to bright lighting. There are a > number of South American Cichlids that have evolved in tannic water > conditions, which do not appreciate bright lighting as a result of their > having been a product of nature under these conditions which do not promote > as much illumination in their environment. > > Some of them, such as Uaru's (Uaru amphiacanthoides and U. fernandezyepezi) > are often seen as shy and retiring when not given similar lighting > conditions as are found in their natural habitat, but instead are subjected > to more harsh brighter lighting in the aquarium which they just do not like. > > Severums are not one of these more timid species and generally don't behave > in this manner, but you may just have an individual there which would rather > get away from strong lighting, especially if by chance this is what you > have. > > The hybrid, Blood Parrot Cichlid, is the man-made result of the cross > between the Severum and the Red Devil, so having 50% Severum genes in its > make-up, yes -- it's extremely possible for your Severum and your Blood > Parrot to pair up and attempt to spawn. Such a spawning may not necessarily > be successful, as many Blood Parrots are infertile as a result of their > being a hybrid, but the possibility of a fertile spawning still does exist. > Ray >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 44187	From: bill 1433	Date: 11/4/2009
Subject: Re: Severum Behavior - updated

No Gail,   Len was just reminded of a past episode of All My Children! <G>   Bill --- On Wed, 11/4/09, gailsugarpants <gail.johnson2@...> wrote: From: gailsugarpants <gail.johnson2@...> Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Severum Behavior - updated To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Date: Wednesday, November 4, 2009, 1:59 PM lol that is too damn funny! I think that you just wanted to drudge up an old Cher video! lol -gail --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@...> wrote: > > It could be that he is acting shy/withdrawn because the other fish are > taunting him about his girlfriend... > http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uxoWto09Oyg > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right > side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) > > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On > Behalf Of sevenspringss@... > Sent: Tuesday, November 03, 2009 11:24 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: Severum Behavior - updated > > Gail,  I still cannot come up with a reason for your Severum's strange > behavior, and especially a rationale for its holding its fins clamped except > to say its neurotic as you're suggesting.  One other possibility for this > odd behavior could be this fish's adversion to bright lighting.  There are a > number of South American Cichlids that have evolved in tannic water > conditions, which do not appreciate bright lighting as a result of their > having been a product of nature under these conditions which do not promote > as much illumination in their environment.  > > Some of them, such as Uaru's (Uaru amphiacanthoides and U. fernandezyepezi) > are often seen as shy and retiring when not given similar lighting > conditions as are found in their natural habitat, but instead are subjected > to more harsh brighter lighting in the aquarium which they just do not like. > > Severums are not one of these more timid species and generally don't behave > in this manner, but you may just have an individual there which would rather > get away from strong lighting, especially if by chance this is what you > have.  > > The hybrid, Blood Parrot Cichlid, is the man-made result of the cross > between the Severum and the Red Devil, so having 50% Severum genes in its > make-up, yes -- it's extremely possible for your Severum and your Blood > Parrot to pair up and attempt to spawn.  Such a spawning may not necessarily > be successful, as many Blood Parrots are infertile as a result of their > being a hybrid, but the possibility of a fertile spawning still does exist. > Ray > ------------------------------------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the home page.  Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com to receive the digest, which includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com for the No E-Mail option where you will still be able to read messages on the group and post replies. Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com to receive individual e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 44188	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 11/4/2009
Subject: Re: Severum Behavior - updated

But I still type pretty good... even with one hand doing the Napoleon thing in my waist band. ;-) (NOTE - It took me a minute to think of a nice way of saying "even with one hand shoved down my pants", since I didn't want to say it like that. Ooops... I just did! LOL) Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of bill 1433 Sent: Wednesday, November 04, 2009 1:20 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: Severum Behavior - updated No Gail,   Len was just reminded of a past episode of All My Children! <G>   Bill --- On Wed, 11/4/09, gailsugarpants <gail.johnson2@...> wrote: From: gailsugarpants <gail.johnson2@...> Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Severum Behavior - updated To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Date: Wednesday, November 4, 2009, 1:59 PM lol that is too damn funny! I think that you just wanted to drudge up an old Cher video! lol -gail --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@...> wrote: > > It could be that he is acting shy/withdrawn because the other fish are > taunting him about his girlfriend... > http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uxoWto09Oyg > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles > referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically > under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) > > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] > On Behalf Of sevenspringss@... > Sent: Tuesday, November 03, 2009 11:24 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: Severum Behavior - updated > > Gail,  I still cannot come up with a reason for your Severum's strange > behavior, and especially a rationale for its holding its fins clamped > except to say its neurotic as you're suggesting.  One other > possibility for this odd behavior could be this fish's adversion to > bright lighting.  There are a number of South American Cichlids that > have evolved in tannic water conditions, which do not appreciate > bright lighting as a result of their having been a product of nature > under these conditions which do not promote as much illumination in their environment. > > Some of them, such as Uaru's (Uaru amphiacanthoides and U. > fernandezyepezi) are often seen as shy and retiring when not given > similar lighting conditions as are found in their natural habitat, but > instead are subjected to more harsh brighter lighting in the aquarium which they just do not like. > > Severums are not one of these more timid species and generally don't > behave in this manner, but you may just have an individual there which > would rather get away from strong lighting, especially if by chance > this is what you have. > > The hybrid, Blood Parrot Cichlid, is the man-made result of the cross > between the Severum and the Red Devil, so having 50% Severum genes in > its make-up, yes -- it's extremely possible for your Severum and your > Blood Parrot to pair up and attempt to spawn.  Such a spawning may not > necessarily be successful, as many Blood Parrots are infertile as a > result of their being a hybrid, but the possibility of a fertile spawning still does exist. > Ray

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 44189	From: smokybanditfroggy	Date: 11/4/2009
Subject: Hi I am a new member wanting to learn more about different aquatic l

We have little fish in our local stream and I live in Brisbane Australia. I would like to know what they are. They have quite chubby bodies with see threw tails and silver in colour.Anyone know what they are???

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 44190	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 11/4/2009
Subject: Re: Hi I am a new member wanting to learn more about different aquat

See if they are on this page. http://www.sanfa.org.au/fw-fish-poster.htm SANFA is South Australian Native Fish Association http://www.sanfa.org.au/fw-fish.htm and there is also this site http://www.nativefish.asn.au/ which may not be an association but does have some good info, including regional sections so possibly one of the region sections would have better info. These fish could also be non-native species accidentally or intentionally introduced to the waterway. If you could take some decent close-up photos, someone might recognize the species or a similar species. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of smokybanditfroggy Sent: Wednesday, November 04, 2009 4:18 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Hi I am a new member wanting to learn more about different aquatic life We have little fish in our local stream and I live in Brisbane Australia. I would like to know what they are. They have quite chubby bodies with see threw tails and silver in colour.Anyone know what they are???

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 44191	From: werepossums	Date: 11/4/2009
Subject: Re: WARNING on Arizona Aquatic Gardens

That's odd, I've ordered from them before without any problems. Once, due to my wife's brother having a heart attack (and my own misreading of when animal orders were shipped versus plant orders), no one was home when the order delivery was attempted, which led to the box spending two days and a night in the unheated FedEx truck. Everything died except the clams and one tiny cherry shrimp. AAG couldn't have been nicer and tried their best to convince me to allow them to replace the dead animals for free even though it was totally not at all their fault. (I couldn't in good conscience accept free replacements considering it was our own circumstances, outside of anything AAG could have controlled, that killed the shrimp, but they certainly tried their best to give them.) It was a whopping big shipping charge and it didn't show up at checkout, but having shipped fish via NANFA & NFC contacts I wasn't entirely surprised at the cost. That PayPal tip is excellent advice. I hadn't thought of something like this happening from someone I consider ethical. If I order from them again I'll definitely use PayPal or a one-time number. Mike --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@...> wrote: > > Sounds like they're back to their old tricks... although I've never heard > this particular complaint. Things I've seen in the past, several years ago, > was charging a BIG shipping charge that was not fully disclosed during the > *Checkout* process. > > This sounds like another good reason to get a One-Time only account number > from your bank's website when shopping online OR for using PayPal when > shopping online so that you do not even give out your account numbers to > online vendors. I use either of these two methods depending on whether I'm > charging something (for bigger ticket items) or just paying for it from my > regular checking account. > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right > side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On > Behalf Of Lainey Alexander > Sent: Tuesday, November 03, 2009 12:32 AM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Subject: [AquaticLife] WARNING on Arizona Aquatic Gardens > > I feel obligated to let everyone know that I have just found out that > Arizona Aquatic Gardens has been continuing to charge my visa for the past > month - several charges for things I never ordered. They have now racked up > nearly 200 dollars worth of fraudulent charges. I am going to have VISA go > into their bank account and reclaim the money, but I wanted to warn people: > please be careful here and do not let these people get hold of your credit > card information. > > > Lainey > http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 44192	From: Lainey Alexander	Date: 11/5/2009
Subject: Re: WARNING on Arizona Aquatic Gardens

Even though my experience with this company has been abysmal, I actually think they are probably nice guys - I don't think they are doing anything malevolent, but there is no doubt that they are awful businessmen. Thinking things over, I am realizing that they seem to have been charging me again, individually, for things they sent me on my first and only order. It boggles my mind to think what a disarray their "paperwork" must be in. Either way, the bottom line is that they are capable of this type of behavior, as I have read so many reports similar to mine. And my fish from them did have ammonia poisoning, those that were not dead, so I would think their husbandry may not be what it could. Lainey http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com On Nov 5, 2009, at 1:51 AM, werepossums wrote: > That's odd, I've ordered from them before without any problems. > Once, due to my wife's brother having a heart attack (and my own > misreading of when animal orders were shipped versus plant orders), > no one was home when the order delivery was attempted, which led to > the box spending two days and a night in the unheated FedEx truck. > Everything died except the clams and one tiny cherry shrimp. AAG > couldn't have been nicer and tried their best to convince me to > allow them to replace the dead animals for free even though it was > totally not at all their fault. (I couldn't in good conscience > accept free replacements considering it was our own circumstances, > outside of anything AAG could have controlled, that killed the > shrimp, but they certainly tried their best to give them.) It was a > whopping big shipping charge and it didn't show up at checkout, but > having shipped fish via NANFA & NFC contacts I wasn't entirely > surprised at the cost. > > That PayPal tip is excellent advice. I hadn't thought of something > like this happening from someone I consider ethical. If I order > from them again I'll definitely use PayPal or a one-time number. > > Mike > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" > <GoldLenny@...> wrote: > > > > Sounds like they're back to their old tricks... although I've > never heard > > this particular complaint. Things I've seen in the past, several > years ago, > > was charging a BIG shipping charge that was not fully disclosed > during the > > *Checkout* process. > > > > This sounds like another good reason to get a One-Time only > account number > > from your bank's website when shopping online OR for using PayPal > when > > shopping online so that you do not even give out your account > numbers to > > online vendors. I use either of these two methods depending on > whether I'm > > charging something (for bigger ticket items) or just paying for > it from my > > regular checking account. > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > > (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on > the right > > side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by > Year, Month) > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On > > Behalf Of Lainey Alexander > > Sent: Tuesday, November 03, 2009 12:32 AM > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > Subject: [AquaticLife] WARNING on Arizona Aquatic Gardens > > > > I feel obligated to let everyone know that I have just found out > that > > Arizona Aquatic Gardens has been continuing to charge my visa for > the past > > month - several charges for things I never ordered. They have now > racked up > > nearly 200 dollars worth of fraudulent charges. I am going to > have VISA go > > into their bank account and reclaim the money, but I wanted to > warn people: > > please be careful here and do not let these people get hold of > your credit > > card information. > > > > > > Lainey > > http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 44193	From: gailsugarpants	Date: 11/5/2009
Subject: New concept in fish tanks

I found this on YouTube and I thought it was awesome and mind boggling! http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8s81goz-uxU&feature=related I am not quite sure how this tank set up would work, but it looks amazing! -gail

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 44194	From: werepossums	Date: 11/5/2009
Subject: Re: WARNING on Arizona Aquatic Gardens

That's pretty serious incompetence. Members of the NFC and NANFA regularly ship fish via the post office, seldom with losses. If the fish are fasted a couple of days before shipping then ammonia poisoning shouldn't be a problem, especially overnight. Either way, forewarned is good, thanks. Very pretty birds, by the way. I'm not a bird guy, but I do like finches, and I have a soft spot for green birds for some reason. Mike --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, Lainey Alexander <lainealex@...> wrote: > > Even though my experience with this company has been abysmal, I > actually think they are probably nice guys - I don't think they are > doing anything malevolent, but there is no doubt that they are awful > businessmen. Thinking things over, I am realizing that they seem to > have been charging me again, individually, for things they sent me on > my first and only order. It boggles my mind to think what a disarray > their "paperwork" must be in. > > Either way, the bottom line is that they are capable of this type of > behavior, as I have read so many reports similar to mine. > > And my fish from them did have ammonia poisoning, those that were not > dead, so I would think their husbandry may not be what it could. > > Lainey > http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 44195	From: kuradi8	Date: 11/5/2009
Subject: Re: New concept in fish tanks

That's wicked cool! And I like the slabs of "broken pottery" (I'm sure it's not but that was my first thought) as the floor material. ~Kai > Gail wrote: > > I found this on YouTube and I thought it was awesome and mind boggling! > > http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8s81goz-uxU&feature=related > > I am not quite sure how this tank set up would work, but it looks amazing! > > -gail >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 44196	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 11/5/2009
Subject: Air fresheners, perfumes, etc... and their effect on our fish and Be

-----Original Message----- From: Katherine Whitney [mailto:kl_whitney@...] Sent: Thursday, November 05, 2009 1:39 PM To: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: can walk again, ergo I'm starting to set up my betta bowl Is a wall plug in air freshener bad? Is it bad that I apply perfume in the same room? I don't use anything aerosol in my room. Just the plug in air freshener and my perfumes. And I use the perfume across the room from him. -Kathy Well... best case scenario is that the air be nice, fresh and clean but in the real world, I know that isn't as likely or practical. As long as the scent isn't too strong, it shouldn't kill a fish but it's certainly not good for them, just like scented stuff isn't really good for us humans in the long run. I'm not sure if they make them but maybe a *natural* air freshener made with actual flower scents... or just pretty smelling flowers in general would probably be better (scheme you a new boyfriend who works for a local florist and brings you fresh flowers every day... or at least the ones they were about to throw away that he can dress up a little... lol) .... but try to do any spraying of perfume as far away from the fish bowl and if you do decide to use one of them plug in thingies, plug it in as far away as possible as well... and DO NOT overdo any of these things. While these scents may not have an immediate effect on him (but if they do, then discontinue their use immediately), it's almost certain to have long term effects just like they have long term effects on us humans (allergies, respiratory issues, etc.). Almost anything man made that puts out a *smell* is usually a dissolved organic compound (DOC) and the more DOC's that we or our fish/pets breathe in, the more likely we will have respiratory issues and possibly even leading to lung cancer as we get old, but once again, this is a very long term issue for us and our pets unless we breathe something in that is so concentrated in the air that it causes immediate respiratory issues. A Betta has a different set of issues compared to other fish who breathe solely under water as the Betta will breathe equally or maybe even more often from the surface so scents in the air will be more likely to possibly have an effect. I know that with either Melafix or Pimafix (two semi-popular *natural* medicinal treatments for fish) which are made with various tree oils, they are bottled in an emulsion fluid to keep the tree oils in solution and the smell is very strong and these have to be cut in half or more when treating a Betta as the strong sweet smell lingering on the surface of the water causes respiratory issues for the Betta. Maybe you could start a thread in the group and get more answers from the ladies to see what they do. I do not use any kind of stink pretty or cleaners anywhere near my tanks and try not to use them anywhere else in my home except the bathroom (if I have company over) and then I turn the vent on so the smell is vented to the outside. Or better yet, I'll send a copy of this reply to the group and change the subject line and let other contribute their thoughts. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month)

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 44197	From: Dora Smith	Date: 11/5/2009
Subject: Re: New concept in fish tanks

Neat. but I'm not figuring out how they manage to have that many fish? Yours, Dora Smith Austin, TX tiggernut24@... ----- Original Message ----- From: "gailsugarpants" <gail.johnson2@...> To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Thursday, November 05, 2009 1:03 PM Subject: [AquaticLife] New concept in fish tanks I found this on YouTube and I thought it was awesome and mind boggling! http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8s81goz-uxU&feature=related I am not quite sure how this tank set up would work, but it looks amazing! -gail ------------------------------------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the home page. Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com to receive the digest, which includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com for the No E-Mail option where you will still be able to read messages on the group and post replies. Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com to receive individual e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 44198	From: Lainey Alexander	Date: 11/5/2009
Subject: Re: Air fresheners, perfumes, etc... and their effect on our fish an

Air fresheners can and do actually kill pet birds, so I would think they could be harmful if not fatal to fish as well. Bird owners are routinely cautioned against using them. Also, my brother's pet rabbit died from nibbling on an air freshener. Lainey http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com On Nov 5, 2009, at 6:57 PM, Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > -----Original Message----- > From: Katherine Whitney [mailto:kl_whitney@...] > Sent: Thursday, November 05, 2009 1:39 PM > To: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: can walk again, ergo I'm starting to > set up > my betta bowl > > Is a wall plug in air freshener bad? Is it bad that I apply perfume > in the > same room? I don't use anything aerosol in my room. Just the plug > in air > freshener and my perfumes. And I use the perfume across the room > from him. > > -Kathy > > Well... best case scenario is that the air be nice, fresh and clean > but in > the real world, I know that isn't as likely or practical. As long > as the > scent isn't too strong, it shouldn't kill a fish but it's certainly > not good > for them, just like scented stuff isn't really good for us humans > in the > long run. > > I'm not sure if they make them but maybe a *natural* air freshener > made with > actual flower scents... or just pretty smelling flowers in general > would > probably be better (scheme you a new boyfriend who works for a > local florist > and brings you fresh flowers every day... or at least the ones they > were > about to throw away that he can dress up a little... lol) .... but > try to do > any spraying of perfume as far away from the fish bowl and if you > do decide > to use one of them plug in thingies, plug it in as far away as > possible as > well... and DO NOT overdo any of these things. > > While these scents may not have an immediate effect on him (but if > they do, > then discontinue their use immediately), it's almost certain to > have long > term effects just like they have long term effects on us humans > (allergies, > respiratory issues, etc.). Almost anything man made that puts out a > *smell* > is usually a dissolved organic compound (DOC) and the more DOC's > that we or > our fish/pets breathe in, the more likely we will have respiratory > issues > and possibly even leading to lung cancer as we get old, but once > again, this > is a very long term issue for us and our pets unless we breathe > something in > that is so concentrated in the air that it causes immediate > respiratory > issues. > > A Betta has a different set of issues compared to other fish who > breathe > solely under water as the Betta will breathe equally or maybe even > more > often from the surface so scents in the air will be more likely to > possibly > have an effect. > > I know that with either Melafix or Pimafix (two semi-popular *natural* > medicinal treatments for fish) which are made with various tree > oils, they > are bottled in an emulsion fluid to keep the tree oils in solution > and the > smell is very strong and these have to be cut in half or more when > treating > a Betta as the strong sweet smell lingering on the surface of the > water > causes respiratory issues for the Betta. > > Maybe you could start a thread in the group and get more answers > from the > ladies to see what they do. I do not use any kind of stink pretty or > cleaners anywhere near my tanks and try not to use them anywhere > else in my > home except the bathroom (if I have company over) and then I turn > the vent > on so the smell is vented to the outside. Or better yet, I'll send > a copy > of this reply to the group and change the subject line and let other > contribute their thoughts. > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the > right > side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, > Month) > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 44199	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 11/5/2009
Subject: Re: Air fresheners, perfumes, etc... and their effect on our fish an

Somehow, I knew you'd jump in about the birds as I've heard this many times in forums about pet birds and from a few people that I know. I even agreed to babysit a couple of birds for a week or so while my workers were painting a customers home after Katrina since the birds couldn't be in the home while the painting was going on... same for our fish, btw! The only downside was the customers wanting to come over every day to visit their birds and the whacko lady... oops.. I meant nice lady customer would let the birds out to fly and then they'd crap around my house. I was so glad when that job was done. LOL When I moved, I found bird crap on the tops of my curtains/drapes, and several other unseen places that birds land when flying. Birds are cool as pets but someone needs to come up with a system on housebreaking them... or at least so they'll only crap in their cage. LOL Well, I just did a Google and apparently, birds can be house broken http://birds.about.com/od/behaviorandtraining/a/pottytraining.htm so I guess the whacko bird lady just didn't bother to teach hers. God, I feel sorry for her home and anybody that visits there. LOL Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Lainey Alexander Sent: Thursday, November 05, 2009 7:47 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Air fresheners, perfumes, etc... and their effect on our fish and Betta's in particular Air fresheners can and do actually kill pet birds, so I would think they could be harmful if not fatal to fish as well. Bird owners are routinely cautioned against using them. Also, my brother's pet rabbit died from nibbling on an air freshener. Lainey http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com On Nov 5, 2009, at 6:57 PM, Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > -----Original Message----- > From: Katherine Whitney [mailto:kl_whitney@...] > Sent: Thursday, November 05, 2009 1:39 PM > To: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: can walk again, ergo I'm starting to > set up my betta bowl > > Is a wall plug in air freshener bad? Is it bad that I apply perfume in > the same room? I don't use anything aerosol in my room. Just the plug > in air freshener and my perfumes. And I use the perfume across the > room from him. > > -Kathy > > Well... best case scenario is that the air be nice, fresh and clean > but in the real world, I know that isn't as likely or practical. As > long as the scent isn't too strong, it shouldn't kill a fish but it's > certainly not good for them, just like scented stuff isn't really good > for us humans in the long run. > > I'm not sure if they make them but maybe a *natural* air freshener > made with actual flower scents... or just pretty smelling flowers in > general would probably be better (scheme you a new boyfriend who works > for a local florist and brings you fresh flowers every day... or at > least the ones they were about to throw away that he can dress up a > little... lol) .... but try to do any spraying of perfume as far away > from the fish bowl and if you do decide to use one of them plug in > thingies, plug it in as far away as possible as well... and DO NOT > overdo any of these things. > > While these scents may not have an immediate effect on him (but if > they do, then discontinue their use immediately), it's almost certain > to have long term effects just like they have long term effects on us > humans (allergies, respiratory issues, etc.). Almost anything man made > that puts out a > *smell* > is usually a dissolved organic compound (DOC) and the more DOC's that > we or our fish/pets breathe in, the more likely we will have > respiratory issues and possibly even leading to lung cancer as we get > old, but once again, this is a very long term issue for us and our > pets unless we breathe something in that is so concentrated in the air > that it causes immediate respiratory issues. > > A Betta has a different set of issues compared to other fish who > breathe solely under water as the Betta will breathe equally or maybe > even more often from the surface so scents in the air will be more > likely to possibly have an effect. > > I know that with either Melafix or Pimafix (two semi-popular *natural* > medicinal treatments for fish) which are made with various tree oils, > they are bottled in an emulsion fluid to keep the tree oils in > solution and the smell is very strong and these have to be cut in half > or more when treating a Betta as the strong sweet smell lingering on > the surface of the water causes respiratory issues for the Betta. > > Maybe you could start a thread in the group and get more answers from > the ladies to see what they do. I do not use any kind of stink pretty > or cleaners anywhere near my tanks and try not to use them anywhere > else in my home except the bathroom (if I have company over) and then > I turn the vent on so the smell is vented to the outside. Or better > yet, I'll send a copy of this reply to the group and change the > subject line and let other contribute their thoughts. > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles > referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically > under Labels and also under Archives by Year, > Month)

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 44200	From: Miquela D	Date: 11/5/2009
Subject: Re: New concept in fish tanks

but when your power goes out guess what?!?!  the water overflows in the bottom tank!!! and out spuez the fish this dieing! don't buy into this concept! XoXo Miquela D. XoXo Dragon Roses Consulting --- On Thu, 11/5/09, Dora Smith <tiggernut24@...> wrote: From: Dora Smith <tiggernut24@...> Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] New concept in fish tanks To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Date: Thursday, November 5, 2009, 6:33 PM   Neat. but I'm not figuring out how they manage to have that many fish? Yours, Dora Smith Austin, TX tiggernut24@ yahoo.com ----- Original Message ----- From: "gailsugarpants" <gail.johnson2@ gmail.com> To: <AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com> Sent: Thursday, November 05, 2009 1:03 PM Subject: [AquaticLife] New concept in fish tanks I found this on YouTube and I thought it was awesome and mind boggling! http://www.youtube com/watch? v=8s81goz- uxU&feature= related I am not quite sure how this tank set up would work, but it looks amazing! -gail ------------ --------- --------- ------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the home page. Or e-mail aquaticlife- digest@yahoogrou ps.com to receive the digest, which includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email Or email aquaticlife- nomail@yahoogrou ps.com for the No E-Mail option where you will still be able to read messages on the group and post replies. Or email aquaticlife- normal@yahoogrou ps.com to receive individual e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 44201	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 11/5/2009
Subject: Re: New concept in fish tanks

No, electrical power has nothing to do with this concept... well, not once it's set up. This works on purely non-mechanical forces. I realize some of the comments below the YouTube brings up the power issue but they do not understand how this concept works, which is based on physics and fluid dynamics. Now, with all them fish, if the power goes out, there will be water quality issues but the inverted tank will stay full. On a smaller scale, it's no different than filling up your sink with water, then take a tall (or short) glass and submerge it, then turn it upside down and lift the glass out of the water by the bottom of the glass. The glass will stay full of water until you break the seal of the vacuum, at the surface, that is created when you start lifting the glass. As soon as an edge of the glass breaks the surface of the water, then the glass will empty back into the sink. We've had many threads about novelty tanks, inverted U-tube connecting tubes that connect tanks and even the tank-tunnel that ran for hundreds of feet up and down walls, across the ceiling, etc., that connected two fish tanks in a restaurant. As long as the two ends of the tube/tunnel stayed submerged in the two tanks and the tube/tunnel did not spring an air leak, the vacuum would exist and keep the tube/tunnel full of water. With a canister filter system with the intake in one tank and the outflow in the other tank, you will even create water flow through the tube/tunnel. Now, on this particular subject tank, they did have a bubbler going up into the tall inverted part of the tank so this air would have to be sucked out on a regular basis to keep the inverted part full of water... but if the power went out, it would only mean no air going into the inverted part. There was another YouTube listed in the subject YouTube which showed a guy building a similar tank and then he ran a hose up inside the inverted tank and that hose was then connected to a pump which pumped the air out of the inverted tank and as the air pumped out, the water was vacuumed up into the inverted part until it was full. The DIY builder did all of this in his driveway while he was testing his DIY tank and he may have another YouTube showing the tank all set up in his home. Now, all this said, there certainly are engineering calculations that should be done (or trial and error) to make sure the glass, seams and seals are going to be able to withstand the reverse pressure that this type of inverted tank creates. Instead of the water putting pressure outward on the tank and silicone, it is actually pulling the glass and silicone inward as the weight of the water tries to escape out the bottom of the inverted tank. I'm sure the glass used on these tanks is very thick, 1/2" or more and also fairly expensive since it has to be low-iron glass so it is clear as normal glass, used on most smaller aquariums, starts to get a green tint to it as it gets thicker, like the glass used on taller tanks and BIG tanks.. unless it's the low-iron type which is more expensive than *normal* glass. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Miquela D Sent: Thursday, November 05, 2009 9:15 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] New concept in fish tanks but when your power goes out guess what?!?!  the water overflows in the bottom tank!!! and out spuez the fish this dieing! don't buy into this concept! XoXo Miquela D. XoXo Dragon Roses Consulting --- On Thu, 11/5/09, Dora Smith <tiggernut24@...> wrote: From: Dora Smith <tiggernut24@...> Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] New concept in fish tanks To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Date: Thursday, November 5, 2009, 6:33 PM Neat. but I'm not figuring out how they manage to have that many fish? Yours, Dora Smith Austin, TX tiggernut24@ yahoo.com ----- Original Message ----- From: "gailsugarpants" <gail.johnson2@ gmail.com> To: <AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com> Sent: Thursday, November 05, 2009 1:03 PM Subject: [AquaticLife] New concept in fish tanks I found this on YouTube and I thought it was awesome and mind boggling! http://www.youtube com/watch? v=8s81goz- uxU&feature= related I am not quite sure how this tank set up would work, but it looks amazing! -gail

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 44202	From: toddswoman496861@aim.com	Date: 11/6/2009
Subject: have a question

I got a couple of Mollies (black) and just recently put them in my 30 gallon tank. One of them looked like its eye popped out of its socket a few minutes after I put him in. It is swimming around active eating well. Could the change in water pressure have caused it? I do use aquarium salt. Kate Dale [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 44203	From: sevenspringss@wmconnect.com	Date: 11/6/2009
Subject: Re: have a question

Kate, It may have been possible, that unseen by you when you first bought this fish, that it was developing a condition called "Pop-Eye," which manifests itself as just that very discription. It IS also possible, however, that this sudden condition was the direct result of your adding salt -- depending upon how much you used. All salt additions, whenever they're preferred to be used, should be done gradually to allow the fish to adjust to it. The addition of salt creates an imbalance of osmotic pressure between the medium (water) that the fish reside in and their own internal osmotic pressure. A greater salt concentration in the water will cause the fish's system to expell water from its body in attempts to equalize/concentrate a higher percentage of salts within its body, similar to the now higher salt concentrations in the water. the osmotic pressure difference will cause water to be moved from the lower concentration (fish's body) to the higher concentration (water column) that it's attempting to lower. Water build-up behind the eye, in its attempt to move to the higher concentration of salts, can build up enough pressure to push the eye out of socket. Ray [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 44204	From: kuradi8	Date: 11/6/2009
Subject: Re: New concept in fish tanks

I noticed that too. And they have a couple of videos, each with different decor and different fish in the tank. Actually, what struck me most was the angel mixed in with what looked like (darn, I'm having a brain fart with the breed name) flowerhorns??? No, that's wrong. There's "blood" in the name somehow. Anyway, angels like to be with their own kind. And don't take kindly to strangers. I should reply later after I've had coffee but I'll post anyway. ~Kai > Dora Smith wrote: > > Neat. but I'm not figuring out how they manage to have that many fish? > > Yours, > Dora Smith > Austin, TX > tiggernut24@... > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "gailsugarpants" <gail.johnson2@...> > To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com> > Sent: Thursday, November 05, 2009 1:03 PM > Subject: [AquaticLife] New concept in fish tanks > > > I found this on YouTube and I thought it was awesome and mind boggling! > > http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8s81goz-uxU&feature=related > > I am not quite sure how this tank set up would work, but it looks amazing! > > -gail > > > > ------------------------------------ > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. > ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> > PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to > the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT > LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- > <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. > > If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of unsubscribing, you > can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the > home page. > > Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com to receive the digest, which > includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email > > Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com for the No E-Mail option where > you will still be able to read messages on the group and post replies. > > Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com to receive individual > e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 44205	From: gailsugarpants	Date: 11/6/2009
Subject: Re: New concept in fish tanks

Lenny! Thank you so much for your insight on this strange set up. It totally makes sense, now. I think this would be a great set up - but I doubt I would be able to keep my children out of it! They might try to climb in it or pet the fishes! lol Maybe I will try this set up when they are older - or when I become an empty nester :) -gail --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@...> wrote: > > No, electrical power has nothing to do with this concept... well, not once > it's set up. This works on purely non-mechanical forces. I realize some of > the comments below the YouTube brings up the power issue but they do not > understand how this concept works, which is based on physics and fluid > dynamics. Now, with all them fish, if the power goes out, there will be > water quality issues but the inverted tank will stay full. > > On a smaller scale, it's no different than filling up your sink with water, > then take a tall (or short) glass and submerge it, then turn it upside down > and lift the glass out of the water by the bottom of the glass. The glass > will stay full of water until you break the seal of the vacuum, at the > surface, that is created when you start lifting the glass. As soon as an > edge of the glass breaks the surface of the water, then the glass will empty > back into the sink. > > We've had many threads about novelty tanks, inverted U-tube connecting tubes > that connect tanks and even the tank-tunnel that ran for hundreds of feet up > and down walls, across the ceiling, etc., that connected two fish tanks in a > restaurant. As long as the two ends of the tube/tunnel stayed submerged in > the two tanks and the tube/tunnel did not spring an air leak, the vacuum > would exist and keep the tube/tunnel full of water. With a canister filter > system with the intake in one tank and the outflow in the other tank, you > will even create water flow through the tube/tunnel. > > Now, on this particular subject tank, they did have a bubbler going up into > the tall inverted part of the tank so this air would have to be sucked out > on a regular basis to keep the inverted part full of water... but if the > power went out, it would only mean no air going into the inverted part. > There was another YouTube listed in the subject YouTube which showed a guy > building a similar tank and then he ran a hose up inside the inverted tank > and that hose was then connected to a pump which pumped the air out of the > inverted tank and as the air pumped out, the water was vacuumed up into the > inverted part until it was full. The DIY builder did all of this in his > driveway while he was testing his DIY tank and he may have another YouTube > showing the tank all set up in his home. > > Now, all this said, there certainly are engineering calculations that should > be done (or trial and error) to make sure the glass, seams and seals are > going to be able to withstand the reverse pressure that this type of > inverted tank creates. Instead of the water putting pressure outward on the > tank and silicone, it is actually pulling the glass and silicone inward as > the weight of the water tries to escape out the bottom of the inverted tank. > I'm sure the glass used on these tanks is very thick, 1/2" or more and also > fairly expensive since it has to be low-iron glass so it is clear as normal > glass, used on most smaller aquariums, starts to get a green tint to it as > it gets thicker, like the glass used on taller tanks and BIG tanks.. unless > it's the low-iron type which is more expensive than *normal* glass. > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right > side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) > > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On > Behalf Of Miquela D > Sent: Thursday, November 05, 2009 9:15 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] New concept in fish tanks > > but when your power goes out guess what?!?!  the water overflows in the > bottom tank!!! and out spuez the fish this dieing! don't buy into this > concept! > > XoXo Miquela D. XoXo > Dragon Roses Consulting > > > > --- On Thu, 11/5/09, Dora Smith <tiggernut24@...> wrote: > > From: Dora Smith <tiggernut24@...> > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] New concept in fish tanks > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Date: Thursday, November 5, 2009, 6:33 PM > > > > > > > Neat. but I'm not figuring out how they manage to have that many > fish? > > > > Yours, > > Dora Smith > > Austin, TX > > tiggernut24@ yahoo.com > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: "gailsugarpants" <gail.johnson2@ gmail.com> > > To: <AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com> > > Sent: Thursday, November 05, 2009 1:03 PM > > Subject: [AquaticLife] New concept in fish tanks > > > > I found this on YouTube and I thought it was awesome and mind boggling! > > > > http://www.youtube com/watch? v=8s81goz- uxU&feature= related > > > > I am not quite sure how this tank set up would work, but it looks amazing! > > > > -gail >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 44206	From: vitaebat	Date: 11/6/2009
Subject: Re: WARNING on Arizona Aquatic Gardens

Nice guys? Not last time I did business with them. When I order something for the first time from a company I usually order something small to see how the transaction goes, and if the transaction is good then I'll order more from them. With AZAG I ordered a book, upon checkout was given a total, paid then total and then a few days later charged ANOTHER fee on my credit card. I wasn't sure what it was, although I did remember they hadn't charged the shipping fee yet, but surely it couldn't have been DOUBLE the price of the book right? So I called them to inquire about the charge. I talked with a man there who constantly referred to me as "honey" and "baby" and talked down to like I was 2 years old. I wasn't rude or upset even, I spoke in a calm inquisitive voice, I was willing to accept the charge as long as they let me know what it was for, I didn't realize that a 7$ small paper book would take 15$ to ship. Again I wasn't upset or mean or rude, simply confused. The man I spoke with was EXTREMELY unprofessional. Pardon my language but SCREW ARIZONA AQUATIC GARDENS. --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "werepossums" <mdwfield@...> wrote: > > That's odd, I've ordered from them before without any problems. Once, due to my wife's brother having a heart attack (and my own misreading of when animal orders were shipped versus plant orders), no one was home when the order delivery was attempted, which led to the box spending two days and a night in the unheated FedEx truck. Everything died except the clams and one tiny cherry shrimp. AAG couldn't have been nicer and tried their best to convince me to allow them to replace the dead animals for free even though it was totally not at all their fault. (I couldn't in good conscience accept free replacements considering it was our own circumstances, outside of anything AAG could have controlled, that killed the shrimp, but they certainly tried their best to give them.) It was a whopping big shipping charge and it didn't show up at checkout, but having shipped fish via NANFA & NFC contacts I wasn't entirely surprised at the cost. > > That PayPal tip is excellent advice. I hadn't thought of something like this happening from someone I consider ethical. If I order from them again I'll definitely use PayPal or a one-time number. > > Mike > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@> wrote: > > > > Sounds like they're back to their old tricks... although I've never heard > > this particular complaint. Things I've seen in the past, several years ago, > > was charging a BIG shipping charge that was not fully disclosed during the > > *Checkout* process. > > > > This sounds like another good reason to get a One-Time only account number > > from your bank's website when shopping online OR for using PayPal when > > shopping online so that you do not even give out your account numbers to > > online vendors. I use either of these two methods depending on whether I'm > > charging something (for bigger ticket items) or just paying for it from my > > regular checking account. > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > > (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right > > side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On > > Behalf Of Lainey Alexander > > Sent: Tuesday, November 03, 2009 12:32 AM > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > Subject: [AquaticLife] WARNING on Arizona Aquatic Gardens > > > > I feel obligated to let everyone know that I have just found out that > > Arizona Aquatic Gardens has been continuing to charge my visa for the past > > month - several charges for things I never ordered. They have now racked up > > nearly 200 dollars worth of fraudulent charges. I am going to have VISA go > > into their bank account and reclaim the money, but I wanted to warn people: > > please be careful here and do not let these people get hold of your credit > > card information. > > > > > > Lainey > > http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com > > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 44207	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 11/6/2009
Subject: Re: New concept in fish tanks

I bet cats just love it ;) They get to go fishing all the time in that fish tank ;) LOL Amber gailsugarpants wrote: > > Lenny! Thank you so much for your insight on this strange set up. It > totally makes sense, now. I think this would be a great set up - but I > doubt I would be able to keep my children out of it! They might try to > climb in it or pet the fishes! lol > Maybe I will try this set up when they are older - or when I become an > empty nester :) > > -gail > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>, "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" > <GoldLenny@...> wrote: > > > > No, electrical power has nothing to do with this concept... well, > not once > > it's set up. This works on purely non-mechanical forces. I realize > some of > > the comments below the YouTube brings up the power issue but they do not > > understand how this concept works, which is based on physics and fluid > > dynamics. Now, with all them fish, if the power goes out, there will be > > water quality issues but the inverted tank will stay full. > > > > On a smaller scale, it's no different than filling up your sink with > water, > > then take a tall (or short) glass and submerge it, then turn it > upside down > > and lift the glass out of the water by the bottom of the glass. The > glass > > will stay full of water until you break the seal of the vacuum, at the > > surface, that is created when you start lifting the glass. As soon as an > > edge of the glass breaks the surface of the water, then the glass > will empty > > back into the sink. > > > > We've had many threads about novelty tanks, inverted U-tube > connecting tubes > > that connect tanks and even the tank-tunnel that ran for hundreds of > feet up > > and down walls, across the ceiling, etc., that connected two fish > tanks in a > > restaurant. As long as the two ends of the tube/tunnel stayed > submerged in > > the two tanks and the tube/tunnel did not spring an air leak, the vacuum > > would exist and keep the tube/tunnel full of water. With a canister > filter > > system with the intake in one tank and the outflow in the other > tank, you > > will even create water flow through the tube/tunnel. > > > > Now, on this particular subject tank, they did have a bubbler going > up into > > the tall inverted part of the tank so this air would have to be > sucked out > > on a regular basis to keep the inverted part full of water... but if the > > power went out, it would only mean no air going into the inverted part. > > There was another YouTube listed in the subject YouTube which showed > a guy > > building a similar tank and then he ran a hose up inside the > inverted tank > > and that hose was then connected to a pump which pumped the air out > of the > > inverted tank and as the air pumped out, the water was vacuumed up > into the > > inverted part until it was full. The DIY builder did all of this in his > > driveway while he was testing his DIY tank and he may have another > YouTube > > showing the tank all set up in his home. > > > > Now, all this said, there certainly are engineering calculations > that should > > be done (or trial and error) to make sure the glass, seams and seals are > > going to be able to withstand the reverse pressure that this type of > > inverted tank creates. Instead of the water putting pressure outward > on the > > tank and silicone, it is actually pulling the glass and silicone > inward as > > the weight of the water tries to escape out the bottom of the > inverted tank. > > I'm sure the glass used on these tanks is very thick, 1/2" or more > and also > > fairly expensive since it has to be low-iron glass so it is clear as > normal > > glass, used on most smaller aquariums, starts to get a green tint to > it as > > it gets thicker, like the glass used on taller tanks and BIG tanks.. > unless > > it's the low-iron type which is more expensive than *normal* glass. > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right > > side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, > Month) > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On > > Behalf Of Miquela D > > Sent: Thursday, November 05, 2009 9:15 PM > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] New concept in fish tanks > > > > but when your power goes out guess what?!?! the water overflows in the > > bottom tank!!! and out spuez the fish this dieing! don't buy into this > > concept! > > > > XoXo Miquela D. XoXo > > Dragon Roses Consulting > > > > > > > > --- On Thu, 11/5/09, Dora Smith <tiggernut24@...> wrote: > > > > From: Dora Smith <tiggernut24@...> > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] New concept in fish tanks > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > Date: Thursday, November 5, 2009, 6:33 PM > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Neat. but I'm not figuring out how they manage to have that many > > fish? > > > > > > > > Yours, > > > > Dora Smith > > > > Austin, TX > > > > tiggernut24@ yahoo.com > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > > From: "gailsugarpants" <gail.johnson2@ gmail.com> > > > > To: <AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com> > > > > Sent: Thursday, November 05, 2009 1:03 PM > > > > Subject: [AquaticLife] New concept in fish tanks > > > > > > > > I found this on YouTube and I thought it was awesome and mind boggling! > > > > > > > > http://www.youtube com/watch? v=8s81goz- uxU&feature= related > > > > > > > > I am not quite sure how this tank set up would work, but it looks > amazing! > > > > > > > > -gail > > > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 44208	From: David Keymel	Date: 11/6/2009
Subject: Re: New concept in fish tanks

i think i saw an air pump pushing air into the tower part though.... On Thu, Nov 5, 2009 at 11:04 PM, Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@... > wrote: > > > No, electrical power has nothing to do with this concept... well, not once > it's set up. This works on purely non-mechanical forces. I realize some of > the comments below the YouTube brings up the power issue but they do not > understand how this concept works, which is based on physics and fluid > dynamics. Now, with all them fish, if the power goes out, there will be > water quality issues but the inverted tank will stay full. > > On a smaller scale, it's no different than filling up your sink with water, > then take a tall (or short) glass and submerge it, then turn it upside down > and lift the glass out of the water by the bottom of the glass. The glass > will stay full of water until you break the seal of the vacuum, at the > surface, that is created when you start lifting the glass. As soon as an > edge of the glass breaks the surface of the water, then the glass will > empty > back into the sink. > > We've had many threads about novelty tanks, inverted U-tube connecting > tubes > that connect tanks and even the tank-tunnel that ran for hundreds of feet > up > and down walls, across the ceiling, etc., that connected two fish tanks in > a > restaurant. As long as the two ends of the tube/tunnel stayed submerged in > the two tanks and the tube/tunnel did not spring an air leak, the vacuum > would exist and keep the tube/tunnel full of water. With a canister filter > system with the intake in one tank and the outflow in the other tank, you > will even create water flow through the tube/tunnel. > > Now, on this particular subject tank, they did have a bubbler going up into > the tall inverted part of the tank so this air would have to be sucked out > on a regular basis to keep the inverted part full of water... but if the > power went out, it would only mean no air going into the inverted part. > There was another YouTube listed in the subject YouTube which showed a guy > building a similar tank and then he ran a hose up inside the inverted tank > and that hose was then connected to a pump which pumped the air out of the > inverted tank and as the air pumped out, the water was vacuumed up into the > inverted part until it was full. The DIY builder did all of this in his > driveway while he was testing his DIY tank and he may have another YouTube > showing the tank all set up in his home. > > Now, all this said, there certainly are engineering calculations that > should > be done (or trial and error) to make sure the glass, seams and seals are > going to be able to withstand the reverse pressure that this type of > inverted tank creates. Instead of the water putting pressure outward on the > tank and silicone, it is actually pulling the glass and silicone inward as > the weight of the water tries to escape out the bottom of the inverted > tank. > I'm sure the glass used on these tanks is very thick, 1/2" or more and also > fairly expensive since it has to be low-iron glass so it is clear as normal > glass, used on most smaller aquariums, starts to get a green tint to it as > it gets thicker, like the glass used on taller tanks and BIG tanks.. unless > it's the low-iron type which is more expensive than *normal* glass. > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right > side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) > > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> [mailto: > AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On > Behalf Of Miquela D > Sent: Thursday, November 05, 2009 9:15 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] New concept in fish tanks > > but when your power goes out guess what?!?! the water overflows in the > bottom tank!!! and out spuez the fish this dieing! don't buy into this > concept! > > XoXo Miquela D. XoXo > Dragon Roses Consulting > > --- On Thu, 11/5/09, Dora Smith <tiggernut24@...<tiggernut24%40yahoo.com>> > wrote: > > From: Dora Smith <tiggernut24@... <tiggernut24%40yahoo.com>> > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] New concept in fish tanks > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Date: Thursday, November 5, 2009, 6:33 PM > > Neat. but I'm not figuring out how they manage to have that many > fish? > > Yours, > > Dora Smith > > Austin, TX > > tiggernut24@ yahoo.com > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: "gailsugarpants" <gail.johnson2@ gmail.com> > > To: <AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com> > > Sent: Thursday, November 05, 2009 1:03 PM > > Subject: [AquaticLife] New concept in fish tanks > > I found this on YouTube and I thought it was awesome and mind boggling! > > http://www.youtube com/watch? v=8s81goz- uxU&feature= related > > I am not quite sure how this tank set up would work, but it looks amazing! > > -gail > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 44209	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 11/6/2009
Subject: Re: New concept in fish tanks

Yes, I mentioned the bubbler in the 4th paragraph in my summary below. This would cause an air pocket to form in the top of the inverted tank (tower) and that air pocket would have to be pumped out every once in a while or eventually the water level in the tower would slowly lower all the way back down and possibly even overflow the main pond-type tank unless they've calculated the water volume accurately. I see they have around 8" sides above the water level in the pond-type tank so they may have thought about the possibility of the tower ever springing an air leak releasing the vacuum (and water) or if they leave for a while and the air pump fills up the tower with air. If they were worried about water circulation in the tower, they could have used a powerhead near the bottom of the tower pointing up into the tower but the bubbles look *pretty* too which is why they probably went with the bubbler. Now all they need is one of them 60's-70's style lighted color wheels that we used for lighting up our tin-foil type artificial Christmas trees, to cast *pretty* colors on the bubbling water in the tower. LOL http://www.videosift.com/video/Vintage-1960-Aluminum-Christmas-Tree-with-Col or-Wheel Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of David Keymel Sent: Friday, November 06, 2009 11:01 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] New concept in fish tanks i think i saw an air pump pushing air into the tower part though.... On Thu, Nov 5, 2009 at 11:04 PM, Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@... > wrote: > > > No, electrical power has nothing to do with this concept... well, not > once it's set up. This works on purely non-mechanical forces. I > realize some of the comments below the YouTube brings up the power > issue but they do not understand how this concept works, which is > based on physics and fluid dynamics. Now, with all them fish, if the > power goes out, there will be water quality issues but the inverted tank will stay full. > > On a smaller scale, it's no different than filling up your sink with > water, then take a tall (or short) glass and submerge it, then turn it > upside down and lift the glass out of the water by the bottom of the > glass. The glass will stay full of water until you break the seal of > the vacuum, at the surface, that is created when you start lifting the > glass. As soon as an edge of the glass breaks the surface of the > water, then the glass will empty back into the sink. > > We've had many threads about novelty tanks, inverted U-tube connecting > tubes that connect tanks and even the tank-tunnel that ran for > hundreds of feet up and down walls, across the ceiling, etc., that > connected two fish tanks in a restaurant. As long as the two ends of > the tube/tunnel stayed submerged in the two tanks and the tube/tunnel > did not spring an air leak, the vacuum would exist and keep the > tube/tunnel full of water. With a canister filter system with the > intake in one tank and the outflow in the other tank, you will even > create water flow through the tube/tunnel. > > Now, on this particular subject tank, they did have a bubbler going up > into the tall inverted part of the tank so this air would have to be > sucked out on a regular basis to keep the inverted part full of > water... but if the power went out, it would only mean no air going into the inverted part. > There was another YouTube listed in the subject YouTube which showed a > guy building a similar tank and then he ran a hose up inside the > inverted tank and that hose was then connected to a pump which pumped > the air out of the inverted tank and as the air pumped out, the water > was vacuumed up into the inverted part until it was full. The DIY > builder did all of this in his driveway while he was testing his DIY > tank and he may have another YouTube showing the tank all set up in his home. > > Now, all this said, there certainly are engineering calculations that > should be done (or trial and error) to make sure the glass, seams and > seals are going to be able to withstand the reverse pressure that this > type of inverted tank creates. Instead of the water putting pressure > outward on the tank and silicone, it is actually pulling the glass and > silicone inward as the weight of the water tries to escape out the > bottom of the inverted tank. > > I'm sure the glass used on these tanks is very thick, 1/2" or more and > also fairly expensive since it has to be low-iron glass so it is clear > as normal glass, used on most smaller aquariums, starts to get a green > tint to it as it gets thicker, like the glass used on taller tanks and > BIG tanks.. unless it's the low-iron type which is more expensive than *normal* glass. > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles > referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically > under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) > > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> [mailto: > AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On Behalf > Of Miquela D > Sent: Thursday, November 05, 2009 9:15 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] New concept in fish tanks > > but when your power goes out guess what?!?! the water overflows in > the bottom tank!!! and out spuez the fish this dieing! don't buy into > this concept! > > XoXo Miquela D. XoXo > Dragon Roses Consulting > > --- On Thu, 11/5/09, Dora Smith > <tiggernut24@...<tiggernut24%40yahoo.com>> > wrote: > > From: Dora Smith <tiggernut24@... <tiggernut24%40yahoo.com>> > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] New concept in fish tanks > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Date: Thursday, November 5, 2009, 6:33 PM > > Neat. but I'm not figuring out how they manage to have that many fish? > > Yours, > > Dora Smith > > Austin, TX > > tiggernut24@ yahoo.com > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: "gailsugarpants" <gail.johnson2@ gmail.com> > > To: <AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com> > > Sent: Thursday, November 05, 2009 1:03 PM > > Subject: [AquaticLife] New concept in fish tanks > > I found this on YouTube and I thought it was awesome and mind boggling! > > http://www.youtube com/watch? v=8s81goz- uxU&feature= related > > I am not quite sure how this tank set up would work, but it looks amazing! > > -gail > > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 44210	From: David Keymel	Date: 11/6/2009
Subject: Re: New concept in fish tanks

OOps sorry, guess i missed that one haha. Work keeps distracting me. On Fri, Nov 6, 2009 at 2:24 PM, Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@...>wrote: > > > Yes, I mentioned the bubbler in the 4th paragraph in my summary below. > > This would cause an air pocket to form in the top of the inverted tank > (tower) and that air pocket would have to be pumped out every once in a > while or eventually the water level in the tower would slowly lower all the > way back down and possibly even overflow the main pond-type tank unless > they've calculated the water volume accurately. I see they have around 8" > sides above the water level in the pond-type tank so they may have thought > about the possibility of the tower ever springing an air leak releasing the > vacuum (and water) or if they leave for a while and the air pump fills up > the tower with air. If they were worried about water circulation in the > tower, they could have used a powerhead near the bottom of the tower > pointing up into the tower but the bubbles look *pretty* too which is why > they probably went with the bubbler. > > Now all they need is one of them 60's-70's style lighted color wheels that > we used for lighting up our tin-foil type artificial Christmas trees, to > cast *pretty* colors on the bubbling water in the tower. LOL > > http://www.videosift.com/video/Vintage-1960-Aluminum-Christmas-Tree-with-Col > or-Wheel > > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right > side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> [mailto: > AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On > Behalf Of David Keymel > Sent: Friday, November 06, 2009 11:01 AM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] New concept in fish tanks > > i think i saw an air pump pushing air into the tower part though.... > > On Thu, Nov 5, 2009 at 11:04 PM, Lenny V. aka GoldLenny < > GoldLenny@... <GoldLenny%40gmail.com> > > wrote: > > > > > > > No, electrical power has nothing to do with this concept... well, not > > once it's set up. This works on purely non-mechanical forces. I > > realize some of the comments below the YouTube brings up the power > > issue but they do not understand how this concept works, which is > > based on physics and fluid dynamics. Now, with all them fish, if the > > power goes out, there will be water quality issues but the inverted tank > will stay full. > > > > On a smaller scale, it's no different than filling up your sink with > > water, then take a tall (or short) glass and submerge it, then turn it > > upside down and lift the glass out of the water by the bottom of the > > glass. The glass will stay full of water until you break the seal of > > the vacuum, at the surface, that is created when you start lifting the > > glass. As soon as an edge of the glass breaks the surface of the > > water, then the glass will empty back into the sink. > > > > We've had many threads about novelty tanks, inverted U-tube connecting > > tubes that connect tanks and even the tank-tunnel that ran for > > hundreds of feet up and down walls, across the ceiling, etc., that > > connected two fish tanks in a restaurant. As long as the two ends of > > the tube/tunnel stayed submerged in the two tanks and the tube/tunnel > > did not spring an air leak, the vacuum would exist and keep the > > tube/tunnel full of water. With a canister filter system with the > > intake in one tank and the outflow in the other tank, you will even > > create water flow through the tube/tunnel. > > > > Now, on this particular subject tank, they did have a bubbler going up > > into the tall inverted part of the tank so this air would have to be > > sucked out on a regular basis to keep the inverted part full of > > water... but if the power went out, it would only mean no air going into > the inverted part. > > There was another YouTube listed in the subject YouTube which showed a > > guy building a similar tank and then he ran a hose up inside the > > inverted tank and that hose was then connected to a pump which pumped > > the air out of the inverted tank and as the air pumped out, the water > > was vacuumed up into the inverted part until it was full. The DIY > > builder did all of this in his driveway while he was testing his DIY > > tank and he may have another YouTube showing the tank all set up in his > home. > > > > Now, all this said, there certainly are engineering calculations that > > should be done (or trial and error) to make sure the glass, seams and > > seals are going to be able to withstand the reverse pressure that this > > type of inverted tank creates. Instead of the water putting pressure > > outward on the tank and silicone, it is actually pulling the glass and > > silicone inward as the weight of the water tries to escape out the > > bottom of the inverted tank. > > > > I'm sure the glass used on these tanks is very thick, 1/2" or more and > > also fairly expensive since it has to be low-iron glass so it is clear > > as normal glass, used on most smaller aquariums, starts to get a green > > tint to it as it gets thicker, like the glass used on taller tanks and > > BIG tanks.. unless it's the low-iron type which is more expensive than > *normal* glass. > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles > > referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically > > under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com><AquaticLife% > 40yahoogroups.com> [mailto: > > AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com><AquaticLife% > 40yahoogroups.com>] On Behalf > > Of Miquela D > > Sent: Thursday, November 05, 2009 9:15 PM > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com><AquaticLife% > 40yahoogroups.com> > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] New concept in fish tanks > > > > but when your power goes out guess what?!?! the water overflows in > > the bottom tank!!! and out spuez the fish this dieing! don't buy into > > this concept! > > > > XoXo Miquela D. XoXo > > Dragon Roses Consulting > > > > --- On Thu, 11/5/09, Dora Smith > > <tiggernut24@... <tiggernut24%40yahoo.com><tiggernut24%40yahoo.com > >> > > wrote: > > > > From: Dora Smith <tiggernut24@... <tiggernut24%40yahoo.com><tiggernut24% > 40yahoo.com>> > > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] New concept in fish tanks > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com><AquaticLife% > 40yahoogroups.com> > > > Date: Thursday, November 5, 2009, 6:33 PM > > > > Neat. but I'm not figuring out how they manage to have that many fish? > > > > Yours, > > > > Dora Smith > > > > Austin, TX > > > > tiggernut24@ yahoo.com > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > > From: "gailsugarpants" <gail.johnson2@ gmail.com> > > > > To: <AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com> > > > > Sent: Thursday, November 05, 2009 1:03 PM > > > > Subject: [AquaticLife] New concept in fish tanks > > > > I found this on YouTube and I thought it was awesome and mind boggling! > > > > http://www.youtube com/watch? v=8s81goz- uxU&feature= related > > > > I am not quite sure how this tank set up would work, but it looks > amazing! > > > > -gail > > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 44211	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 11/6/2009
Subject: Sound in the Sea

Some of you may find this site interesting; Science of Sound in the Sea http://www.dosits.org/science/intro.htm The University of Rhode Island's Office of Marine Programs website offers interested parties a primer on the science of sound in the sea. The main topics covered here are "Sound", "Sound Movement", "Sound Measurement", "Sounds in the Sea", and "Advanced Topics". Visitors who are unfamiliar with the basics of sound should start out with "Sound" to learn about such subtopics as "How do you characterize sounds?" and "How are sounds made?" "Intensity", "Frequency", and "Wavelength" are also explained in "Sound". Visitors should note that within the subtopics, the words or phrases that are highlighted in green can be clicked on to read the definition. A menu on the left side of any page of a subtopic lists all the main topics, and scrolling over a main topic reveals all the subtopics available to peruse. Visitors shouldn't miss the "Sounds in the Sea" topic to learn about such concepts as "People and Animal Use", "Sonar", "Echolocation", and "Underwater Sounds". >From The Scout Report, Copyright Internet Scout 1994-2009. http://scout.wisc.edu/ \\Steve//

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 44212	From: erikaandnewton	Date: 11/7/2009
Subject: stuck thermometer?

so i had an impulse buy of some newts, forgetting they like cooler temperatures than my frogs. i set up a tank for them, put in a heater just to keep it from getting below 68, dropped in the thermometer i had been using in the frog tank (which had shown me varying temps as should be expected) and went about my chores. a few hours later i checked on the tank, the thermometer read 80 degrees. stuck my finger in and thought "odd, doesn't even feel as warm as the frog tank", unplugged the heater and left the lid open. a few hours later, still read at 80 degrees. so, took the brand new thermometer out of the frog tank and put it in the newt tank. a nice cool 68ish degrees. i stuck the old thermometer in the fridge and checked on it this morning. whatdya know my fridge is 80 degrees. so now im paranoid that a regular ordinary thermometer can malfunction. something i never thought could occur. my question is, what kind of thermometer do i have to buy to make sure i'm getting an accurate reading? erika newark de usa

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 44213	From: Dr. Norman Ali Bassam Khalaf	Date: 11/7/2009
Subject: A New Book: Fauna Palaestina - Part One

My new Published Book : Fauna Palaestina - Part One. A Zoological Journey in Palestine, Arabia and Europe between 1983-2006. Das Buch: Fauna Palaestina - Teil Eins. Eine Zoologische Reise in Palästina, Arabien und Europa zwischen 1983-2006. von: Dr. Norman Ali Bassam Khalaf-von Jaffa. ISBN 978-9948-03-865-8 Website : http://dr-norman-ali-khalaf-books.webs.com/faunapalaestinapart1.htm Erschienen: 1. Auflage / First Edition: September 2009. Literaturangaben. - Parallelsacht. in arab. Schr. - Text teilw. dt., teilw. engl., teilw. arab. - Teilw. in arab. Schr. Dr. Norman Ali Khalaf, 2009, ISBN 978-9948-03-865-8, Gebunden Hardback. 1. Auflage / First Edition: 412 Seiten / Pages. zahlr. schwarz-weiß Abbildungen - Format: 30 x 21,5 cm, Gewicht: 1.500 gram. Preis: 50,00 Euro. Selbstverlag / Self Publisher: Dr. Norman Ali Khalaf. P.O. Box 37038, Sharjah, United Arab Emirates & Uhlandstraße 6, D-66271 Rilchingen-Hanweiler, Bundesrepublik Deutschland. German / English Cover Foto: „The Palestine Sunbird" Painting by the Palestinian Artist Ismail Shammout, 2004. Arabic Cover Foto: A Dorcas Gazelle or 'Afri at Kuwait Zoo, State of Kuwait. Foto by Dr. Norman Ali Bassam Khalaf-von Jaffa. August 2009. Cover Design / Umschlaggestaltung: Ola Mostafa Khalaf. Sharjah, United Arab Emirates. Printed and bound in Sharjah, United Arab Emirates. Preface Packed into Palestine's small area are snow-covered mountains, parched deserts, fertile fields, lush woodlands and long stretches of sand dunes. No less than four different geographical zones are included in Palestine, and the country's climate ranges from semi-arid to temperate to subtropical. All of this makes Palestine home to a stunning variety of plants and animals. Some 47,000 living species have been identified in Palestine, with another 4,000 assumed to exist. There are 116 species of mammals native to Palestine, 511 kinds of birds, 97 types of reptiles and nine types of amphibians. Some 2,780 types of plants grow countrywide, from Alpine flowers on northern mountain slopes to bright red coral peonies and desert papyrus reeds in the south. My first published scientific article goes back to January 1980, when I was still a student in the Zoology Department at Kuwait University, State of Kuwait. The article was about "The Colouration of Animals". I was especially interested in the Arabian Wildlife, and in particular, in my Homeland Palestine. My first zoological article about the Palestinian Fauna dates back to February 1983. The article was entitled "The Badger in Palestine and the Arabian Peninsula". It was published in the Palestinian "Al Khalisah" Bulletin, Kuwait University. Since that time, I had published many scientific articles in different scientific books, magazines and bulletins, and established my own Palestinian Biological Bulletin. In July 1983, "Gazelle: The Palestinian Biological Bulletin" was created. It was the First Palestinian Scientific Journal Worldwide (ISSN 0178 – 6288). My first zoological article in "Gazelle" was about "Order Lagomorpha in Palestine". Till now 91 "Gazelle" Issues were published; and many of my articles were about Palestinian Animals. Finally, and after more than 30 years in Zoological research and studies, in Palestine and many Arabic and European countries, and after publishing many scientific articles in different scientific books, magazines and bulletins, especially the "Gazelle Bulletin", and after publishing many articles in the Gazelle Bulletin Web Site, since 2001 under (www.gazelle.8m.net), and after publishing most of my articles on the internet under (www.webs.com), and after publishing my first book (Gazelle: The Palestinian Biological Bulletin. A Scientific Journey in Palestine, Arabia and Europe between 1983-2004) in July 2004, and my second book (Aquatica Arabica. An Aquatic Scientific Journey in Palestine, Arabia and Europe between 1980-2005) in August 2005, and my third book (Mammalia Arabica. A Zoological Journey in Palestine, Arabia and Europe between 1980-2006) in July 2006, and my fourth book (Felidae Arabica. A Zoological Journey in Palestine, Arabia and Europe between 1980-2007) in July 2007, and my fifth book (Carnivora Arabica. A Zoological Journey in Palestine, Arabia and Europe between 2005-2008) in September 2008, I finally decided to publish a new scientific book containing all my "Palestinian" research and articles which were published between 1983 - 2006. It is hard to be optimistic about the future of Wildlife in Palestine. But recent years have shown the development of official and public interest, and efforts to conserve the Palestinian Fauna. Palestinian animals lived with humans for thousands of years. There are a lot of stories concerning Prophets with Palestinian animals, which were mentioned in the Holy Quran, Bible and Torah. I hope that I can participate with my new book to our knowledge about "Fauna Palaestina", and to help and to be part in protecting the endangered Palestinian and Arabian Fauna. Dr. Norman Ali Bassam Khalaf-von Jaffa. Sharjah, United Arab Emirates. 20 September 2009. About the Author : A Palestinian Zoologist Dr. Sc. Norman Ali Bassam Ali Taher Khalaf-Sakerfalke von Jaffa is a Palestinian/German Zoologist, Ecologist and Geologist. Born in Saarbrücken, Saarland, Germany in 1962. Finished School in Kuwait. Studied Zoology, Geology and Ecology for the Bachelor, Master and Doctorate degrees at the Universities of Kuwait, Durham (England) and Ashwood (USA). Specialised in Animal Behaviour and Ecology. Done a lot of work and research in the Universities of Kuwait, Durham and Saarbrücken; and in the Zoos, Wild Parks and Field Studies in Palestine, Israel, Jordan, Syria, Lebanon, Iraq, Saudi Arabia, Kuwait, Emirates, Qatar, Oman, Egypt, Turkey, Greece, Bulgaria, Yugoslavia, Hungary, Holland, Belgium, Luxembourg, England, Scotland, Jersey Island, France, Austria, Switzerland and Germany. He is the author and publisher of "Gazelle : The Palestinian Biological Bulletin" (ISSN 0178 - 6288), the first Palestinian scientific journal worldwide (since 1983); and the author of six scientific books: Gazelle: The Palestinian Biological Bulletin (2004) & Aquatica Arabica (2005) & Mammalia Arabica (2006) & Felidae Arabica (2007) & Carnivora Arabica (2008) & Fauna Palaestina – Part One (2009). He discovered and scientifically named three new animal subspecies. Two Palestinian mammal subspecies from the Gaza Strip: The Gaza or Palestine House Mouse (Mus musculus gazaensis Khalaf, 2007) and the Palestine Golden Jackal (Canis aureus palaestina Khalaf, 2008); and a freshwater fish subspecies: The Emirati or Wadi Al Wurayah Blind Cave Fish (Garra barreimiae wurayahi Khalaf, 2009) from the Emirate of Fujairah, United Arab Emirates. He is working now as a free scientific researcher and publisher in the United Arab Emirates. He is married to Ola Khalaf and has one daughter, Nora. Contents of the Book English / German Articles : 1. Preface 2. About the Author : A Palestinian Zoologist 3. The Sinai Leopard (Panthera pardus jarvisi) in Palestine 4. The Arabian Oryx (Oryx leucoryx) in Palestine 5. The Wolf (Canis lupus) in Palestine 6. The Otter (Lutra lutra) in Palestine 7. A Palestinian Zoologist : Dr. Sana Issa Atallah (1943 – 1970) 8. The Extinct and Endangered Animals in Palestine 9. Threatened Mammals in Palestine 10. The Nile Crocodile in Palestine 11. The Story of Prophet Yunus (Jonah) and the Whale 12. The Story of Prophet Musa (Moses) and the Fish 13. Moses Perch (Lutjanus russelli, Bleeker 1849) 14. The Fish of Musa (Samak Musa) 15. Samak Al-Luchs (Al-Hamoor) or the Orange-Spotted Grouper (Epinephelus coioides) in Palestine (Mediterranean Sea) and the United Arab Emirates (Arabian Gulf) 16. Jaffa (Yaffa) : The History of an Old Palestinian Arab City on the Mediterranean Sea 17. The Andromeda Sea Monster of Jaffa 18. The Jewfish (Epinephelus itajara) / Der Riesenzackenbarsch oder Judenfisch (Epinephelus itajara) 19. The Leopards of Palestine 20. The Jaffa Amphipod (Ampelisca jaffaensis, Bellan-Santini & Kaim-Malka, 1977) from Jaffa, Palestine 21. Chapter 3 : Geography, Flora and Fauna (in the Book: Palestine : A Guide) 22. Felidae Palaestina : The Wild Cats of Palestine 23. Mammalia Palaestina : The Mammals of Palestine 24. The Asiatic or Persian Lion (Panthera leo persica) in Palestine 25. Ornithomimid Dinosaur Tracks from Beit Zeit, West of Jerusalem, Palestine 26. The Common Weasel (Mustela nivalis, Linnaeus 1766) in Palestine and the East Mediterranean Region 27. The Asiatic or Persian Lion (Panthera leo persica, Meyer 1826) in Palestine and the Arabian and Islamic Region Arabic Articles : 28. The Names of the Lion 29. The missing Names of the Lion 30. A Personality from Jaffa, Palestine : Bassam Ali Taher Khalaf (Abu Ali) (1938 – 2006) 31. Palestinian Scientists and Technologists Abroad (PALESTA) 32. The Qalqilia Zoo and the Natural History Museum in the City of Qalqilia, West Bank, Occupied Palestine 33. The Rafah Zoo in the Rafah Refugee Camp, Gaza Strip, Palestine : A Story of Destruction by the Israeli Occupation Army 34. The Fishes of Palestine 35. Notes on the Black Kite (Milvus migrans) in Palestine and the Arabic World and Europe 36. The Water and the Ecological Problems in the Occupied West Bank and Gaza Strip (As Part of the Middle East) 37. Acquaintance Card : Gazelle Magazine: The Palestinian Biological Bulletin, Bonn, Germany 38. An Introduction to the Animal Life in Palestine 39. A List of the Birds of Palestine (Arabic / English) 40. The Palestine Bulbul 41. The Pinecone Fish (Monocentris japonicus, Houttuyn), A First Live Record from the Red Sea (Translation) 42. The Brown Bear in Palestine and the rest of the Arabian Peninsula 43. The Pine Bunting in Palestine 44. Order Lagomorpha in Palestine 45. A Scientific Comment : The Badger 46. The Leopards in Palestine 47. The Badger in Palestine and the Arabian Peninsula 48. Muqadimet Al-Kitab (Arabic Preface) 49. Book Contents (Arabic Section) Copyright 2009 : Dr. Sc. Norman Ali Bassam Ali Taher Khalaf-Sakerfalke von Jaffa.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 44214	From: kuradi8	Date: 11/7/2009
Subject: Algae

I got Mom a Betta a month or two back and his bowl is under the big table lamp that she uses to read -- all day. So no wonder his bowl gets bright green with algae growth. The answer is to move his bowl but no, it's the most convenient place and she likes having him there. I mentioned getting a snail but someone replied that Mystery Snails don't eat algae -- they eat the food that falls to the bottom. But other posts say they DO eat algae. So which is it? And will s/he eat enough of it to keep Kala's algae problem kinda-sorta under control? It's not easy being greeeeeeeen... ~Kai

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 44215	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 11/7/2009
Subject: Re: stuck thermometer?

Erika, All thermometers are relatively accurate, but that does not preclude an incident from occurring that may make the thermometer less accurate than it had been, as happened to you. If you are worried about the relative accuracy of your thermometer(s), you can place it in an area of known temperature for about an hour, then take a reading. However, if the reading is accurate, be aware that it is accurate at that temperature only. However, you can reasonably conclude that the thermometer will be relatively accurate throughout its range. To paraphrase an old saying, "Man who has one thermometer knows what temperature it is, many who has many does not." \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of erikaandnewton Sent: Saturday, November 07, 2009 7:38 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] stuck thermometer? so i had an impulse buy of some newts, forgetting they like cooler temperatures than my frogs. i set up a tank for them, put in a heater just to keep it from getting below 68, dropped in the thermometer i had been using in the frog tank (which had shown me varying temps as should be expected) and went about my chores. a few hours later i checked on the tank, the thermometer read 80 degrees. stuck my finger in and thought "odd, doesn't even feel as warm as the frog tank", unplugged the heater and left the lid open. a few hours later, still read at 80 degrees. so, took the brand new thermometer out of the frog tank and put it in the newt tank. a nice cool 68ish degrees. i stuck the old thermometer in the fridge and checked on it this morning. whatdya know my fridge is 80 degrees. so now im paranoid that a regular ordinary thermometer can malfunction. something i never thought could occur. my question is, what kind of thermometer do i have to buy to make sure i'm getting an accurate reading? erika newark de usa

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 44216	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 11/7/2009
Subject: Re: Algae

Kai, Snails will eat algae. Snails will eat food found on the bottom of the tank. All animals like a varied diet. After all, do you eat blood sausage every day? (closest thing I could think of at the moment to bloodworms <g>, and I do have a hankering for a good blood sausage.) \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of kuradi8 Sent: Saturday, November 07, 2009 9:09 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Algae I got Mom a Betta a month or two back and his bowl is under the big table lamp that she uses to read -- all day. So no wonder his bowl gets bright green with algae growth. The answer is to move his bowl but no, it's the most convenient place and she likes having him there. I mentioned getting a snail but someone replied that Mystery Snails don't eat algae -- they eat the food that falls to the bottom. But other posts say they DO eat algae. So which is it? And will s/he eat enough of it to keep Kala's algae problem kinda-sorta under control? It's not easy being greeeeeeeen... ~Kai

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 44217	From: Lainey Alexander	Date: 11/7/2009
Subject: pH testers

I have the pH test kits that you run via a vial by adding drops and I have a much more expensive probe by Milwaukee and I am not happy with either. The vials drive me crazy because they take too long to set up with getting the water to the right level, adding the drops, washing out the vial etc. plus I can never really tell what the reading is by comparing to the color charts, I don't like this system at all. And the probe just isn't working. I calibrate the probe as per directions, using some kind of calibration liquid that came with it, but each day the probe needs to be re-calibrated and is WAY off, like sometimes up to .7. Does anyone know of a better/easier way to test pH? I do need to monitor my pH because I have planted tanks with injected CO2 and the pH can fluctuate. Also, my tap water pH fluctuates. All of which means I do a lot of testing, and need some way to test that won't be so cumbersome and frustrating. Thank you, Lainey http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 44218	From: cat.rose	Date: 11/7/2009
Subject: Plants growing black hair - eek.

Hey all! Things have been going good here with my 10 gal FW tank. About a month or more ago I bought sone new plants at PetSmart: don't know the name but they're fluffy, kind of angel hairy types, bright green. Well a couple weeks ago I was doing my PWC and noticed what looked like clumps of my roommate's black hair in the tank. Since I'm the only one who ever cleans the tank, I was very confused as to how this happened as I'm pretty meticulous with the tank/fish. Well, it seems these plants are "growing" long black "hair"! It doesn't seem like the plant is dying and turning black because the black hairs are much longer than the green parts. It looks kind of gross, and the hairs are breaking off or something cuz they're not just on the live plants but bits scattered around the tank too. Should I immediately take out the plants and throw them out? Can it hurt my fish? I'm sure it's clogging up the filter, which I probably need to clean now too. Looks rather frightening in there now... Thanks! Catherine

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 44219	From: Dora Smith	Date: 11/7/2009
Subject: Re: Algae

Sounds like someone has to go over to Momma's house every once in a while and clean the bowl. Yours, Dora Smith Austin, TX tiggernut24@... ----- Original Message ----- From: "kuradi8" <kuradi8@...> To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Saturday, November 07, 2009 8:08 AM Subject: [AquaticLife] Algae I got Mom a Betta a month or two back and his bowl is under the big table lamp that she uses to read -- all day. So no wonder his bowl gets bright green with algae growth. The answer is to move his bowl but no, it's the most convenient place and she likes having him there. I mentioned getting a snail but someone replied that Mystery Snails don't eat algae -- they eat the food that falls to the bottom. But other posts say they DO eat algae. So which is it? And will s/he eat enough of it to keep Kala's algae problem kinda-sorta under control? It's not easy being greeeeeeeen... ~Kai ------------------------------------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the home page. Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com to receive the digest, which includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com for the No E-Mail option where you will still be able to read messages on the group and post replies. Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com to receive individual e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 44220	From: harry perry	Date: 11/7/2009
Subject: Re: Algae/Betta Bowl

Clean the bowl every day and explain to Momma  fish don't belong in bowls. A small tank is cheap at Walmart. Harry --- On Sat, 11/7/09, Dora Smith <tiggernut24@...> wrote: From: Dora Smith <tiggernut24@...> Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Algae To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Date: Saturday, November 7, 2009, 11:05 AM   Sounds like someone has to go over to Momma's house every once in a while and clean the bowl. Yours, Dora Smith Austin, TX tiggernut24@ yahoo.com ----- Original Message ----- From: "kuradi8" <kuradi8@yahoo. com> To: <AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com> Sent: Saturday, November 07, 2009 8:08 AM Subject: [AquaticLife] Algae I got Mom a Betta a month or two back and his bowl is under the big table lamp that she uses to read -- all day. So no wonder his bowl gets bright green with algae growth. The answer is to move his bowl but no, it's the most convenient place and she likes having him there. I mentioned getting a snail but someone replied that Mystery Snails don't eat algae -- they eat the food that falls to the bottom. But other posts say they DO eat algae. So which is it? And will s/he eat enough of it to keep Kala's algae problem kinda-sorta under control? It's not easy being greeeeeeeen. .. ~Kai ------------ --------- --------- ------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the home page. Or e-mail aquaticlife- digest@yahoogrou ps.com to receive the digest, which includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email Or email aquaticlife- nomail@yahoogrou ps.com for the No E-Mail option where you will still be able to read messages on the group and post replies. Or email aquaticlife- normal@yahoogrou ps.com to receive individual e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 44221	From: kuradi8	Date: 11/7/2009
Subject: Re: Algae

MMMMMMMMMMMMM! Blood sausage!!! Roasted with bacon and served with cranberry sauce. It's a Christmas tradition and something I look forward to every year! Ah good. I'll take a ride down to the pet place in town. Mom overfeeds her poor little Betta so the snail will have plenty of "fallout" down below as well as algae. A balanced diet. :oP ~Kai --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Steve Szabo" <steve@...> wrote: > > Kai, > > Snails will eat algae. Snails will eat food found on the bottom of the tank. > All animals like a varied diet. After all, do you eat blood sausage every > day? (closest thing I could think of at the moment to bloodworms <g>, and I > do have a hankering for a good blood sausage.) > > \\Steve// > > > -----Original Message----- > > I got Mom a Betta a month or two back and his bowl is under the big table > lamp that she uses to read -- all day. So no wonder his bowl gets bright > green with algae growth. The answer is to move his bowl but no, it's the > most convenient place and she likes having him there. > > I mentioned getting a snail but someone replied that Mystery Snails don't > eat algae -- they eat the food that falls to the bottom. But other posts > say they DO eat algae. > > So which is it? And will s/he eat enough of it to keep Kala's algae problem > kinda-sorta under control? > > It's not easy being greeeeeeeen... > ~Kai >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 44222	From: kuradi8	Date: 11/7/2009
Subject: Re: Algae

Fortunately, Mom is just downstairs. The family joke is that we keep her locked in the dungeon. And Kala's bowl gets GREEN in only about a week's time. Yes, definitely too much light but she can't sit in the dark. I'll go fetch a snail later after I do my chores. ~Kai > Dora wrote: > > Sounds like someone has to go over to Momma's house every once in a while > and clean the bowl. > > Yours, > Dora Smith > Austin, TX > tiggernut24@... > ----- Original Message ----- > > I got Mom a Betta a month or two back and his bowl is under the big table > lamp that she uses to read -- all day. So no wonder his bowl gets bright > green with algae growth. The answer is to move his bowl but no, it's the > most convenient place and she likes having him there. > > I mentioned getting a snail but someone replied that Mystery Snails don't > eat algae -- they eat the food that falls to the bottom. But other posts > say they DO eat algae. > > So which is it? And will s/he eat enough of it to keep Kala's algae problem > kinda-sorta under control? > > It's not easy being greeeeeeeen... > ~Kai >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 44223	From: kuradi8	Date: 11/7/2009
Subject: Re: Algae/Betta Bowl

Because Bettas are surface breathers, they CAN live in bowls. (Bowls meaning they don't need aeration.) The one he's in isn't "small" but I'm on the lookout for a larger one or small tank, preferably at a Salvation Army price. Cleaning the bowl every day would mean too much of a water change and that would screw up his little ecosystem, having the water cycling all the time. ~Kai --- Harry wrote: > > Clean the bowl every day and explain to Momma fish don't belong in bowls. A small tank is cheap at Walmart. > Harry > > --- On Sat, 11/7/09, Dora Smith <tiggernut24@...> wrote: > > > Sounds like someone has to go over to Momma's house every once in a while and clean the bowl. > > Yours, > > Dora Smith > > Austin, TX > > tiggernut24@ yahoo.com > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > I got Mom a Betta a month or two back and his bowl is under the big table > > lamp that she uses to read -- all day. So no wonder his bowl gets bright > > green with algae growth. The answer is to move his bowl but no, it's the > > most convenient place and she likes having him there. > > > > I mentioned getting a snail but someone replied that Mystery Snails don't > > eat algae -- they eat the food that falls to the bottom. But other posts > > say they DO eat algae. > > > > So which is it? And will s/he eat enough of it to keep Kala's algae problem > > kinda-sorta under control? > > > > It's not easy being greeeeeeeen. .. > > ~Kai >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 44224	From: harry perry	Date: 11/7/2009
Subject: Re: Algae/Betta Bowl/kuradi8

I'm well aware that a Betta is a Labyrinth fish.  I'm also aware that in a small bowl this fish is constantly swimming in it's own waste. Harry --- On Sat, 11/7/09, kuradi8 <kuradi8@...> wrote: From: kuradi8 <kuradi8@...> Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Algae/Betta Bowl To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Date: Saturday, November 7, 2009, 12:06 PM   Because Bettas are surface breathers, they CAN live in bowls. (Bowls meaning they don't need aeration.) The one he's in isn't "small" but I'm on the lookout for a larger one or small tank, preferably at a Salvation Army price. Cleaning the bowl every day would mean too much of a water change and that would screw up his little ecosystem, having the water cycling all the time. ~Kai --- Harry wrote: > > Clean the bowl every day and explain to Momma fish don't belong in bowls. A small tank is cheap at Walmart. > Harry > > --- On Sat, 11/7/09, Dora Smith <tiggernut24@ ...> wrote: > > > Sounds like someone has to go over to Momma's house every once in a while and clean the bowl. > > Yours, > > Dora Smith > > Austin, TX > > tiggernut24@ yahoo.com > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > I got Mom a Betta a month or two back and his bowl is under the big table > > lamp that she uses to read -- all day. So no wonder his bowl gets bright > > green with algae growth. The answer is to move his bowl but no, it's the > > most convenient place and she likes having him there. > > > > I mentioned getting a snail but someone replied that Mystery Snails don't > > eat algae -- they eat the food that falls to the bottom. But other posts > > say they DO eat algae. > > > > So which is it? And will s/he eat enough of it to keep Kala's algae problem > > kinda-sorta under control? > > > > It's not easy being greeeeeeeen. .. > > ~Kai > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 44225	From: Dora Smith	Date: 11/7/2009
Subject: Re: Algae/Betta Bowl

But the tank won't fit on the table. This is the whole point of having a betta, and not a tank. I say let the woman and her betta alone. I have my betta in a two gallon critter keeper with a gallon and a half of water, gravel, a castle, and two silk plants, and he's a very happy fish. Yours, Dora Smith Austin, TX tiggernut24@... ----- Original Message ----- From: "harry perry" <harryfisherman@...> To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Saturday, November 07, 2009 10:55 AM Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Algae/Betta Bowl Clean the bowl every day and explain to Momma fish don't belong in bowls. A small tank is cheap at Walmart. Harry --- On Sat, 11/7/09, Dora Smith <tiggernut24@...> wrote: From: Dora Smith <tiggernut24@...> Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Algae To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Date: Saturday, November 7, 2009, 11:05 AM Sounds like someone has to go over to Momma's house every once in a while and clean the bowl. Yours, Dora Smith Austin, TX tiggernut24@ yahoo.com ----- Original Message ----- From: "kuradi8" <kuradi8@yahoo. com> To: <AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com> Sent: Saturday, November 07, 2009 8:08 AM Subject: [AquaticLife] Algae I got Mom a Betta a month or two back and his bowl is under the big table lamp that she uses to read -- all day. So no wonder his bowl gets bright green with algae growth. The answer is to move his bowl but no, it's the most convenient place and she likes having him there. I mentioned getting a snail but someone replied that Mystery Snails don't eat algae -- they eat the food that falls to the bottom. But other posts say they DO eat algae. So which is it? And will s/he eat enough of it to keep Kala's algae problem kinda-sorta under control? It's not easy being greeeeeeeen. .. ~Kai ------------ --------- --------- ------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the home page. Or e-mail aquaticlife- digest@yahoogrou ps.com to receive the digest, which includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email Or email aquaticlife- nomail@yahoogrou ps.com for the No E-Mail option where you will still be able to read messages on the group and post replies. Or email aquaticlife- normal@yahoogrou ps.com to receive individual e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] ------------------------------------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. `..><((((>.`..`.><((((> .`.. , .`..><((((> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <((((><.`..`.<((((><.`.. , .`..<((((><`.. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the home page. Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com to receive the digest, which includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com for the No E-Mail option where you will still be able to read messages on the group and post replies. Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com to receive individual e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 44226	From: Dora Smith	Date: 11/7/2009
Subject: Re: Algae/Betta Bowl

Cleaning the tank every several days should be good enough for the most determined algae. I clean my betta tank twice a week. It's actually a medium critter keeper with a gallon and a half of water. I put the betta in a small plastic container, stir up the gravel, dump out all the water, rinse the gravel in dechlorinated water and dump again. Then I wipe the sides of the container. Then I refill with prepared water, acclimate the fish, and put him back. Happy fish. Yours, Dora Smith Austin, TX tiggernut24@... ----- Original Message ----- From: "kuradi8" <kuradi8@...> To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Saturday, November 07, 2009 11:06 AM Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Algae/Betta Bowl Because Bettas are surface breathers, they CAN live in bowls. (Bowls meaning they don't need aeration.) The one he's in isn't "small" but I'm on the lookout for a larger one or small tank, preferably at a Salvation Army price. Cleaning the bowl every day would mean too much of a water change and that would screw up his little ecosystem, having the water cycling all the time. ~Kai --- Harry wrote: > > Clean the bowl every day and explain to Momma fish don't belong in bowls. > A small tank is cheap at Walmart. > Harry > > --- On Sat, 11/7/09, Dora Smith <tiggernut24@...> wrote: > > > Sounds like someone has to go over to Momma's house every once in a > while and clean the bowl. > > Yours, > > Dora Smith > > Austin, TX > > tiggernut24@ yahoo.com > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > I got Mom a Betta a month or two back and his bowl is under the big table > > lamp that she uses to read -- all day. So no wonder his bowl gets bright > > green with algae growth. The answer is to move his bowl but no, it's the > > most convenient place and she likes having him there. > > > > I mentioned getting a snail but someone replied that Mystery Snails don't > > eat algae -- they eat the food that falls to the bottom. But other posts > > say they DO eat algae. > > > > So which is it? And will s/he eat enough of it to keep Kala's algae > problem > > kinda-sorta under control? > > > > It's not easy being greeeeeeeen. .. > > ~Kai > ------------------------------------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the home page. Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com to receive the digest, which includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com for the No E-Mail option where you will still be able to read messages on the group and post replies. Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com to receive individual e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 44227	From: harry perry	Date: 11/7/2009
Subject: Re: Algae/Betta Bowl/Dora

How do you know the fish is happy?. --- On Sat, 11/7/09, Dora Smith <tiggernut24@...> wrote: From: Dora Smith <tiggernut24@...> Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: Algae/Betta Bowl To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Date: Saturday, November 7, 2009, 12:20 PM   Cleaning the tank every several days should be good enough for the most determined algae. I clean my betta tank twice a week. It's actually a medium critter keeper with a gallon and a half of water. I put the betta in a small plastic container, stir up the gravel, dump out all the water, rinse the gravel in dechlorinated water and dump again. Then I wipe the sides of the container. Then I refill with prepared water, acclimate the fish, and put him back. Happy fish. Yours, Dora Smith Austin, TX tiggernut24@ yahoo.com ----- Original Message ----- From: "kuradi8" <kuradi8@yahoo. com> To: <AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com> Sent: Saturday, November 07, 2009 11:06 AM Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Algae/Betta Bowl Because Bettas are surface breathers, they CAN live in bowls. (Bowls meaning they don't need aeration.) The one he's in isn't "small" but I'm on the lookout for a larger one or small tank, preferably at a Salvation Army price. Cleaning the bowl every day would mean too much of a water change and that would screw up his little ecosystem, having the water cycling all the time. ~Kai --- Harry wrote: > > Clean the bowl every day and explain to Momma fish don't belong in bowls. > A small tank is cheap at Walmart. > Harry > > --- On Sat, 11/7/09, Dora Smith <tiggernut24@ ...> wrote: > > > Sounds like someone has to go over to Momma's house every once in a > while and clean the bowl. > > Yours, > > Dora Smith > > Austin, TX > > tiggernut24@ yahoo.com > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > I got Mom a Betta a month or two back and his bowl is under the big table > > lamp that she uses to read -- all day. So no wonder his bowl gets bright > > green with algae growth. The answer is to move his bowl but no, it's the > > most convenient place and she likes having him there. > > > > I mentioned getting a snail but someone replied that Mystery Snails don't > > eat algae -- they eat the food that falls to the bottom. But other posts > > say they DO eat algae. > > > > So which is it? And will s/he eat enough of it to keep Kala's algae > problem > > kinda-sorta under control? > > > > It's not easy being greeeeeeeen. .. > > ~Kai > ------------ --------- --------- ------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the home page. Or e-mail aquaticlife- digest@yahoogrou ps.com to receive the digest, which includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email Or email aquaticlife- nomail@yahoogrou ps.com for the No E-Mail option where you will still be able to read messages on the group and post replies. Or email aquaticlife- normal@yahoogrou ps.com to receive individual e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 44228	From: kuradi8	Date: 11/7/2009
Subject: Re: Algae/Betta Bowl

I'm going to guess Kala's bowl is about a gallon. A bigger one would be better but would have trouble fitting. He has a small live potted plant in there. I use a piece of scrubbie rubber banded to a plastic handle to scrape the algae loose, let it settle and then use a length of air hose on a chop stick to siphon the stuff on the bottom out. I refill from a jug of water that I keep on the counter specifically for his bowl -- so it's kinda naturally cycled. We have well water, not chlorinated, fluoridated, chemical-laden city water. Yes, cold water only. :o) Chow Mein and Sweet and Sour each have 2-gal desk tanks. They also each have their own potted plant. And I use the same cleaning method -- though they don't get the algae buildup that Kala's brightly lit bowl does. They're not cuddly like furry pets but still get close to our hearts. ~Kai GZZZZZT! There goes the drier! Won't be long before I head to town for a snail. > Dora wrote: > > Cleaning the tank every several days should be good enough for the most > determined algae. I clean my betta tank twice a week. It's actually a > medium critter keeper with a gallon and a half of water. I put the betta in > a small plastic container, stir up the gravel, dump out all the water, rinse > the gravel in dechlorinated water and dump again. Then I wipe the sides of > the container. Then I refill with prepared water, acclimate the fish, and > put him back. Happy fish. > > Yours, > Dora Smith > Austin, TX > tiggernut24@... > ----- Original Message ------ > > > Because Bettas are surface breathers, they CAN live in bowls. (Bowls > meaning they don't need aeration.) The one he's in isn't "small" but I'm on > the lookout for a larger one or small tank, preferably at a Salvation Army > price. > > Cleaning the bowl every day would mean too much of a water change and that > would screw up his little ecosystem, having the water cycling all the time. > ~Kai > > > > > --- Harry wrote: > > > > Clean the bowl every day and explain to Momma fish don't belong in bowls. > > A small tank is cheap at Walmart. > > Harry > > > > --- On Sat, 11/7/09, Dora Smith <tiggernut24@> wrote: > > > > > > Sounds like someone has to go over to Momma's house every once in a > > while and clean the bowl. > > > > Yours, > > > > Dora Smith > > > > Austin, TX > > > > tiggernut24@ yahoo.com > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > > > > I got Mom a Betta a month or two back and his bowl is under the big table > > > > lamp that she uses to read -- all day. So no wonder his bowl gets bright > > > > green with algae growth. The answer is to move his bowl but no, it's the > > > > most convenient place and she likes having him there. > > > > > > > > I mentioned getting a snail but someone replied that Mystery Snails don't > > > > eat algae -- they eat the food that falls to the bottom. But other posts > > > > say they DO eat algae. > > > > > > > > So which is it? And will s/he eat enough of it to keep Kala's algae > > problem > > > > kinda-sorta under control? > > > > > > > > It's not easy being greeeeeeeen. .. > > > > ~Kai > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 44229	From: kuradi8	Date: 11/7/2009
Subject: Re: Algae/Betta Bowl/Dora

Fins are up, fish are active and there are "happy (horny) bubbles" on the surface of the water. :o) ~Kai > Harry perry <harryfisherman@...> wrote: > > How do you know the fish is happy?. >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 44230	From: harry perry	Date: 11/7/2009
Subject: Re: Algae/Betta Bowl/Dora/again

Horny bubbles ???? I best not go there. Harry --- On Sat, 11/7/09, kuradi8 <kuradi8@...> wrote: From: kuradi8 <kuradi8@...> Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Algae/Betta Bowl/Dora To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Date: Saturday, November 7, 2009, 12:43 PM   Fins are up, fish are active and there are "happy (horny) bubbles" on the surface of the water. :o) ~Kai > Harry perry <harryfisherman@ ...> wrote: > > How do you know the fish is happy?. > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 44231	From: Lainey Alexander	Date: 11/7/2009
Subject: Re: pH testers

Sorry, please retract this query - I was not calibrating the probe correctly, and now it is finally working properly. Lainey http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com On Nov 7, 2009, at 10:56 AM, Lainey Alexander wrote: > I have the pH test kits that you run via a vial by adding drops and I > have a much more expensive probe by Milwaukee and I am not happy with > either. The vials drive me crazy because they take too long to set up > with getting the water to the right level, adding the drops, washing > out the vial etc. plus I can never really tell what the reading is by > comparing to the color charts, I don't like this system at all. And > the probe just isn't working. I calibrate the probe as per > directions, using some kind of calibration liquid that came with it, > but each day the probe needs to be re-calibrated and is WAY off, like > sometimes up to .7. > > Does anyone know of a better/easier way to test pH? > > I do need to monitor my pH because I have planted tanks with injected > CO2 and the pH can fluctuate. Also, my tap water pH fluctuates. All > of which means I do a lot of testing, and need some way to test that > won't be so cumbersome and frustrating. > > Thank you, > > Lainey > http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 44232	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 11/7/2009
Subject: Re: pH testers

Lainey, Those methods are the two best methods for measuring pH. The probes are relatively sensitive, and do need to be recalibrated before each use. They should actually be calibrated with 3 different solutions, one a pH 4.0, one at pH 7.0, and one at, I believe, pH 10.0, The probes to need to be replaced after a period of time when they no longer calibrate. What the period of time is depends on the quality of the probe itself (the part you put into the water) and the water being tested. A good test kit can give you very accurate readings. Do you have a problem distinguishing colors other than with the test kits? If so, this can be a problem. If you do not, you may need to change your kit to one that I recommend. It is Kordon's AquaTru. They are not inexpensive, like the API kits are. They will cost you some real money. They have the colors, also, but the colors are easier to read, since they are part of the vial, and you have your test water and clear(?) water to read the colors through. One of the problems people face is that, though they think so, their water is not really colorless, and it can affect the colors they see from the test sample, making it hard, sometimes, to distinguish the proper color. The Kordon kits take this part out of the equation. However, it may not help if you normally have problems distinguishing variations of color. To help with the proper leveling of water, you may want to pick up a supply of those plastic droppers that were talked about the other day (I know, they called them pipettes with a bulb on the end, but to normal people, they are droppers). You can just fill the vials up with water, and then use the dropper to take out what is not needed, or fill the vial using the droppers, or some variation of these methods, whatever works best for you. FWIW, I tried the probe many years ago, shortly after they became available in the hobby, and was not pleased with them. Too time consuming to calibrate, needed to calibrate too often, and the probes did not last very long. The replacement probes were also expensive. Today, the cost structure may be different, but calibration issues seem to remain. I've stuck with the Kordon kits. \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Lainey Alexander Sent: Saturday, November 07, 2009 10:57 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] pH testers I have the pH test kits that you run via a vial by adding drops and I have a much more expensive probe by Milwaukee and I am not happy with either. The vials drive me crazy because they take too long to set up with getting the water to the right level, adding the drops, washing out the vial etc. plus I can never really tell what the reading is by comparing to the color charts, I don't like this system at all. And the probe just isn't working. I calibrate the probe as per directions, using some kind of calibration liquid that came with it, but each day the probe needs to be re-calibrated and is WAY off, like sometimes up to .7. Does anyone know of a better/easier way to test pH? I do need to monitor my pH because I have planted tanks with injected CO2 and the pH can fluctuate. Also, my tap water pH fluctuates. All of which means I do a lot of testing, and need some way to test that won't be so cumbersome and frustrating. Thank you, Lainey http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 44233	From: erikaandnewton	Date: 11/7/2009
Subject: wisteria/lighting previous question/response revisited

ok, i've looked through the archives for posts made by me, and can't find the post that this response was in reference to: ""First make sure that you have "water sprite" ( Ceratopteris thalictroides) rather than Hygrophila difformis AKA "Water Wisteria"- They can be confused. The easiest way to tell them apart is just by seeing how the new leaves form. In true fern like way, the water sprite will unfurl a new branch and set of leaves, while the wisteria will grow out new leaves like most plants and trees. For the 75 gallon, I would recommend a minimum of 100 watts of full spectrum lighting on for at least 10 hours each day - You can build your own 3 sided box to hold the lights inside and then mount one of these kits into them. www.ahsupply.com ( 2 x 55 watt setup) They are very easy to put together and very easy to repair in the future. Just make sure you get good air flow. Or if you are not a DIY person, you can look for a good price on a similar light that is already put together For minimal light such as 100 watts you should stick with lower light tolerant plants Ferns - Java fern, African Fern, Water sprite Mosses - any aquatic moss that is proven temperature tolerant. Anubius plants - many species to choose from Crypts - Many species to choose from Some of the Hygrophilia species are worth a try including wisteria"" who gave me this information please? I have some more questions about the lighting system, which i can either ask on list or off list, and am driving my self bonkers looking for who provided the info in the first place!! erika newark de usa

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 44234	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 11/7/2009
Subject: Re: stuck thermometer?

What kind of thermometer do you have? There are many types... from the red-colored alcohol to mercury to stick on liquid crystal (plastic strip types) to digital, etc. I'm guessing you had a red-alcohol or mercury one but let us know. In either case, you are right that they usually do not fail. They certainly could be off by a degree or two, but that is usually due to the chart/scale being in the wrong place, rather than the fluid inside the tube. I use a couple of different types. I have a mercury one that is enclosed in a sealed glass test-tube with metal pellets at the bottom to keep it floating upright. If you have big, aggressive fish, this type is not always recommended as the bigger aggressive fish might decide to slam it around and possibly break it. I've had it for many years in many tanks but never with big, aggressive fish. I also have one of the stick-on plastic strip types (actually liquid crystal). Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of erikaandnewton Sent: Saturday, November 07, 2009 6:38 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] stuck thermometer? so i had an impulse buy of some newts, forgetting they like cooler temperatures than my frogs. i set up a tank for them, put in a heater just to keep it from getting below 68, dropped in the thermometer i had been using in the frog tank (which had shown me varying temps as should be expected) and went about my chores. a few hours later i checked on the tank, the thermometer read 80 degrees. stuck my finger in and thought "odd, doesn't even feel as warm as the frog tank", unplugged the heater and left the lid open. a few hours later, still read at 80 degrees. so, took the brand new thermometer out of the frog tank and put it in the newt tank. a nice cool 68ish degrees. i stuck the old thermometer in the fridge and checked on it this morning. whatdya know my fridge is 80 degrees. so now im paranoid that a regular ordinary thermometer can malfunction. something i never thought could occur. my question is, what kind of thermometer do i have to buy to make sure i'm getting an accurate reading? erika newark de usa ------------------------------------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the home page. Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com to receive the digest, which includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com for the No E-Mail option where you will still be able to read messages on the group and post replies. Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com to receive individual e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 44235	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 11/7/2009
Subject: Re: Algae

They do eat algae but some of the species do not eat it once they mature so then you may have an even higher bioload with even more algae. What size bowl? What are the maintenance habits for the Betta bowl? Doing more frequent 25% PWC's would lower the nutrient levels in the bowl which would prevent/dissuade algae growth. Putting a live plant(s) in the bowl will also help suck up some nutrients and out-compete the algae. Adding a screen type cover (crocheted doily, etc.) will help block some of the light and dissuade algae growth. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of kuradi8 Sent: Saturday, November 07, 2009 8:09 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Algae I got Mom a Betta a month or two back and his bowl is under the big table lamp that she uses to read -- all day. So no wonder his bowl gets bright green with algae growth. The answer is to move his bowl but no, it's the most convenient place and she likes having him there. I mentioned getting a snail but someone replied that Mystery Snails don't eat algae -- they eat the food that falls to the bottom. But other posts say they DO eat algae. So which is it? And will s/he eat enough of it to keep Kala's algae problem kinda-sorta under control? It's not easy being greeeeeeeen... ~Kai ------------------------------------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the home page. Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com to receive the digest, which includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com for the No E-Mail option where you will still be able to read messages on the group and post replies. Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com to receive individual e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 44236	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 11/7/2009
Subject: Re: pH testers

I'm not so sure you need to be worrying about your pH as much as you may be. pH changes caused by CO2 are NOT the same as pH changes caused by other water chemistry factors. What you should be monitoring is your CO2 output to make sure you are not wasting CO2. Do you monitor your CO2 levels? While the pH may rise and fall based on the CO2 level in the tank, the GH and KH should remain relatively constant and because these are constant, the fish are not affected. For reasons not known to me, pH fluctuations caused by *normal* rising and falling CO2 levels in natural waters DO NOT cause problems to fish like pH fluctuations caused by other water parameter changes... too much carbonic acid and/or other acids released by decaying detritus/mulm, low KH levels, etc. This is probably part of God's plan since He knew that the CO2 levels would rise at night when plants were not taking in CO2 and then fall during the day when the plants start sucking in the CO2 via photosynthesis. You should make sure your CO2 is regulated properly and then start testing your pH at a consistent time each day so you can then see a pattern develop. For example, if you keep the CO2 levels consistent, 24 hours a day, your pH will be much lower first thing in the morning, before you turn on your lights and then by the end of the day, after the plants have been sucking up CO2 all day, the pH level will be higher. BUT... during this entire fluctuation, the GH and KH should have remained relatively unchanged, although they will both go down over time without proper tank maintenance. If any of these three should crash, that would cause osmoregulatory shock issues to your fish. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Lainey Alexander Sent: Saturday, November 07, 2009 9:57 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] pH testers I have the pH test kits that you run via a vial by adding drops and I have a much more expensive probe by Milwaukee and I am not happy with either. The vials drive me crazy because they take too long to set up with getting the water to the right level, adding the drops, washing out the vial etc. plus I can never really tell what the reading is by comparing to the color charts, I don't like this system at all. And the probe just isn't working. I calibrate the probe as per directions, using some kind of calibration liquid that came with it, but each day the probe needs to be re-calibrated and is WAY off, like sometimes up to .7. Does anyone know of a better/easier way to test pH? I do need to monitor my pH because I have planted tanks with injected CO2 and the pH can fluctuate. Also, my tap water pH fluctuates. All of which means I do a lot of testing, and need some way to test that won't be so cumbersome and frustrating. Thank you, Lainey http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 44237	From: Lainey Alexander	Date: 11/7/2009
Subject: Re: pH testers

Hi Lenny - I understand what you are saying about CO2 causing OK pH swings, but the main problem I am having now is that my tap water apparently fluctuates between 7.4 and 8.5! I finally figured this out in the past few days. This is one reason I am being driven insane by my pH issues. I'll work it out, somehow, but for now I think I do need to monitor my tap water and its effects in the tanks. Thanks, Lainey http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com On Nov 7, 2009, at 2:54 PM, Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > I'm not so sure you need to be worrying about your pH as much as > you may be. > pH changes caused by CO2 are NOT the same as pH changes caused by > other > water chemistry factors. What you should be monitoring is your CO2 > output > to make sure you are not wasting CO2. Do you monitor your CO2 levels? > > While the pH may rise and fall based on the CO2 level in the tank, > the GH > and KH should remain relatively constant and because these are > constant, the > fish are not affected. For reasons not known to me, pH fluctuations > caused > by *normal* rising and falling CO2 levels in natural waters DO NOT > cause > problems to fish like pH fluctuations caused by other water parameter > changes... too much carbonic acid and/or other acids released by > decaying > detritus/mulm, low KH levels, etc. This is probably part of God's plan > since He knew that the CO2 levels would rise at night when plants > were not > taking in CO2 and then fall during the day when the plants start > sucking in > the CO2 via photosynthesis. > > You should make sure your CO2 is regulated properly and then start > testing > your pH at a consistent time each day so you can then see a pattern > develop. > For example, if you keep the CO2 levels consistent, 24 hours a day, > your pH > will be much lower first thing in the morning, before you turn on your > lights and then by the end of the day, after the plants have been > sucking up > CO2 all day, the pH level will be higher. BUT... during this entire > fluctuation, the GH and KH should have remained relatively unchanged, > although they will both go down over time without proper tank > maintenance. > If any of these three should crash, that would cause osmoregulatory > shock > issues to your fish. > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the > right > side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, > Month) > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On > Behalf Of Lainey Alexander > Sent: Saturday, November 07, 2009 9:57 AM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Subject: [AquaticLife] pH testers > > I have the pH test kits that you run via a vial by adding drops and > I have a > much more expensive probe by Milwaukee and I am not happy with > either. The > vials drive me crazy because they take too long to set up with > getting the > water to the right level, adding the drops, washing out the vial > etc. plus I > can never really tell what the reading is by comparing to the color > charts, > I don't like this system at all. And the probe just isn't working. I > calibrate the probe as per directions, using some kind of > calibration liquid > that came with it, but each day the probe needs to be re-calibrated > and is > WAY off, like sometimes up to .7. > > Does anyone know of a better/easier way to test pH? > > I do need to monitor my pH because I have planted tanks with injected > CO2 and the pH can fluctuate. Also, my tap water pH fluctuates. All > of which > means I do a lot of testing, and need some way to test that won't > be so > cumbersome and frustrating. > > Thank you, > > Lainey > http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 44238	From: Lainey Alexander	Date: 11/7/2009
Subject: Re: pH testers

and, to add, I have tried RO plus RO right, and that seems to have issues of its own too. With that method, I can't get the pH over 6 without using some kind of pH adjuster chemicals, and then it gets into constant fussing and monitoring and adding and water changes - I think I'll end up crazier working with that than fixing my tap somehow. Lainey http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com On Nov 7, 2009, at 2:54 PM, Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > I'm not so sure you need to be worrying about your pH as much as > you may be. > pH changes caused by CO2 are NOT the same as pH changes caused by > other > water chemistry factors. What you should be monitoring is your CO2 > output > to make sure you are not wasting CO2. Do you monitor your CO2 levels? > > While the pH may rise and fall based on the CO2 level in the tank, > the GH > and KH should remain relatively constant and because these are > constant, the > fish are not affected. For reasons not known to me, pH fluctuations > caused > by *normal* rising and falling CO2 levels in natural waters DO NOT > cause > problems to fish like pH fluctuations caused by other water parameter > changes... too much carbonic acid and/or other acids released by > decaying > detritus/mulm, low KH levels, etc. This is probably part of God's plan > since He knew that the CO2 levels would rise at night when plants > were not > taking in CO2 and then fall during the day when the plants start > sucking in > the CO2 via photosynthesis. > > You should make sure your CO2 is regulated properly and then start > testing > your pH at a consistent time each day so you can then see a pattern > develop. > For example, if you keep the CO2 levels consistent, 24 hours a day, > your pH > will be much lower first thing in the morning, before you turn on your > lights and then by the end of the day, after the plants have been > sucking up > CO2 all day, the pH level will be higher. BUT... during this entire > fluctuation, the GH and KH should have remained relatively unchanged, > although they will both go down over time without proper tank > maintenance. > If any of these three should crash, that would cause osmoregulatory > shock > issues to your fish. > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the > right > side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, > Month) > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On > Behalf Of Lainey Alexander > Sent: Saturday, November 07, 2009 9:57 AM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Subject: [AquaticLife] pH testers > > I have the pH test kits that you run via a vial by adding drops and > I have a > much more expensive probe by Milwaukee and I am not happy with > either. The > vials drive me crazy because they take too long to set up with > getting the > water to the right level, adding the drops, washing out the vial > etc. plus I > can never really tell what the reading is by comparing to the color > charts, > I don't like this system at all. And the probe just isn't working. I > calibrate the probe as per directions, using some kind of > calibration liquid > that came with it, but each day the probe needs to be re-calibrated > and is > WAY off, like sometimes up to .7. > > Does anyone know of a better/easier way to test pH? > > I do need to monitor my pH because I have planted tanks with injected > CO2 and the pH can fluctuate. Also, my tap water pH fluctuates. All > of which > means I do a lot of testing, and need some way to test that won't > be so > cumbersome and frustrating. > > Thank you, > > Lainey > http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 44239	From: kuradi8	Date: 11/7/2009
Subject: Re: Algae/Betta Bowl/Dora/again

Yeah! Horny bubbles! Male Bettas are Mr Moms and they blow bubble nests indicating that conditions are favorable enough for them to want to bring small fry into their worlds. In other words, they're happy. ~Kai > Harry wrote: > > Horny bubbles ???? I best not go there. > Harry > > Kai wrote: > > Fins are up, fish are active and there are "happy (horny) bubbles" on the surface of the water. > > :o) > > ~Kai > > > > > Harry wrote: > > > > How do you know the fish is happy?. > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 44240	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 11/7/2009
Subject: Re: Plants growing black hair - eek.

You are getting algae. Algae is perfectly normal and grows in nearly every aquarium but there are things you can do to keep it under control. It will not hurt your fish as long as it doesn't get to the point where it completely overtakes the tank. Algae is natural but when it starts to get out of control, it usually means that you might need to change the way you are maintaining the tank. The plant you have is probably a type of Hornwort. See this page and let us know if this is what you have. http://www.plantedtank.net/forums/myplants/47-Tropical_Hornwort_Ceratophyllu m_submersum.html In the future, DO NOT buy any kind of fish or plant without doing research first to make sure you are getting something that is compatible with your tank, water, etc... but this is probably not an issue in this case. Since you have a 10G tank, see my blog article about compatible fish and stocking recommendations for a 10G tank so you will have a quick guide of which fish are compatible with your tank if you do decide to change things around in the future. Is the plant growing from what you can tell or is it possibly dying off? Tell us more about your tank maintenance and the tank in general. How many fish? What kind of fish? How often do you do 25% PWC's (partial water changes)? How often do you do filter maintenance? While on the topic of filter maintenance, read my long blog article about proper "Filter Cleaning and Maintenance" so you do not make some of these common mistakes. What kind of lighting does the tank have? Does it get any sunlight, since sunlight will cause algae much faster than other lighting so you do NOT really want any direct sunlight? Do you happen to have any test kits for things like ammonia, nitrite, nitrate, pH, etc? If you do, give us those test results in numbers (Note that OK or Safe are not numbers. ;-)). There's a lot more to ask but I'll wait for your answers. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of cat.rose Sent: Saturday, November 07, 2009 9:39 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Plants growing black hair - eek. Hey all! Things have been going good here with my 10 gal FW tank. About a month or more ago I bought sone new plants at PetSmart: don't know the name but they're fluffy, kind of angel hairy types, bright green. Well a couple weeks ago I was doing my PWC and noticed what looked like clumps of my roommate's black hair in the tank. Since I'm the only one who ever cleans the tank, I was very confused as to how this happened as I'm pretty meticulous with the tank/fish. Well, it seems these plants are "growing" long black "hair"! It doesn't seem like the plant is dying and turning black because the black hairs are much longer than the green parts. It looks kind of gross, and the hairs are breaking off or something cuz they're not just on the live plants but bits scattered around the tank too. Should I immediately take out the plants and throw them out? Can it hurt my fish? I'm sure it's clogging up the filter, which I probably need to clean now too. Looks rather frightening in there now... Thanks! Catherine

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 44241	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 11/7/2009
Subject: Re: Algae/Betta Bowl

UH OH... I see a can of worms... and I've got my can opener ready! LOL Yes, they "CAN" live in a bowl but that doesn't mean they should live in a bowl. This would be analogous to saying a family of four "CAN" live in an 8' x 8' room with a hole in the ground for a toilet... but that doesn't mean they *should* live in that type of home. It also doesn't mean that the government should create another government program to give larger homes to people that can't afford them out of their own income. LOL Doing a 25% PWC every day and using a small algae scrubber on the inside of the glass and then siphoning the gravel at least once a week or more, as needed, will go a long way to improving the water quality and thus lessening the algae growth. Also see my other reply before this one. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of kuradi8 Sent: Saturday, November 07, 2009 11:06 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Algae/Betta Bowl Because Bettas are surface breathers, they CAN live in bowls. (Bowls meaning they don't need aeration.) The one he's in isn't "small" but I'm on the lookout for a larger one or small tank, preferably at a Salvation Army price. Cleaning the bowl every day would mean too much of a water change and that would screw up his little ecosystem, having the water cycling all the time. ~Kai --- Harry wrote: > > Clean the bowl every day and explain to Momma fish don't belong in bowls. A small tank is cheap at Walmart. > Harry > > --- On Sat, 11/7/09, Dora Smith <tiggernut24@...> wrote: > > > Sounds like someone has to go over to Momma's house every once in a while and clean the bowl. > > Yours, > > Dora Smith > > Austin, TX > > tiggernut24@ yahoo.com > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > I got Mom a Betta a month or two back and his bowl is under the big > table > > lamp that she uses to read -- all day. So no wonder his bowl gets > bright > > green with algae growth. The answer is to move his bowl but no, it's > the > > most convenient place and she likes having him there. > > > > I mentioned getting a snail but someone replied that Mystery Snails > don't > > eat algae -- they eat the food that falls to the bottom. But other > posts > > say they DO eat algae. > > > > So which is it? And will s/he eat enough of it to keep Kala's algae > problem > > kinda-sorta under control? > > > > It's not easy being greeeeeeeen. .. > > ~Kai

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 44242	From: Dora Smith	Date: 11/7/2009
Subject: Re: Algae/Betta Bowl/Dora/again

Don't even start with me. Today is not the day, and I am not the one. Yours, Dora Smith Austin, TX tiggernut24@... ----- Original Message ----- From: "harry perry" <harryfisherman@...> To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Saturday, November 07, 2009 12:01 PM Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: Algae/Betta Bowl/Dora/again Horny bubbles ???? I best not go there. Harry --- On Sat, 11/7/09, kuradi8 <kuradi8@...> wrote: From: kuradi8 <kuradi8@...> Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Algae/Betta Bowl/Dora To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Date: Saturday, November 7, 2009, 12:43 PM Fins are up, fish are active and there are "happy (horny) bubbles" on the surface of the water. :o) ~Kai > Harry perry <harryfisherman@ ...> wrote: > > How do you know the fish is happy?. > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] ------------------------------------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. `..><((((>.`..`.><((((> .`.. , .`..><((((> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <((((><.`..`.<((((><.`.. , .`..<((((><`.. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the home page. Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com to receive the digest, which includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com for the No E-Mail option where you will still be able to read messages on the group and post replies. Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com to receive individual e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 44243	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 11/7/2009
Subject: Re: pH testers

To elaborate on my earlier post and this one from \\Steve//, the experts say that as many as 25% of adults suffer from some type of color-blindness. Here are some free online tests to find out if you do have any type of color-blindness which can make reading the color charts more difficult. Simple - http://www.toledo-bend.com/colorblind/Ishihara.asp A little better - http://colorvisiontesting.com/online%20test.htm A BIG TIME test - http://www.xrite.com/worldwide.aspx (click on your region/language) Here is the one for the US/English... http://www.xrite.com/custom_page.aspx?PageID=77 Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Steve Szabo Sent: Saturday, November 07, 2009 12:26 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] pH testers Lainey, Those methods are the two best methods for measuring pH. The probes are relatively sensitive, and do need to be recalibrated before each use. They should actually be calibrated with 3 different solutions, one a pH 4.0, one at pH 7.0, and one at, I believe, pH 10.0, The probes to need to be replaced after a period of time when they no longer calibrate. What the period of time is depends on the quality of the probe itself (the part you put into the water) and the water being tested. A good test kit can give you very accurate readings. Do you have a problem distinguishing colors other than with the test kits? If so, this can be a problem. If you do not, you may need to change your kit to one that I recommend. It is Kordon's AquaTru. They are not inexpensive, like the API kits are. They will cost you some real money. They have the colors, also, but the colors are easier to read, since they are part of the vial, and you have your test water and clear(?) water to read the colors through. One of the problems people face is that, though they think so, their water is not really colorless, and it can affect the colors they see from the test sample, making it hard, sometimes, to distinguish the proper color. The Kordon kits take this part out of the equation. However, it may not help if you normally have problems distinguishing variations of color. To help with the proper leveling of water, you may want to pick up a supply of those plastic droppers that were talked about the other day (I know, they called them pipettes with a bulb on the end, but to normal people, they are droppers). You can just fill the vials up with water, and then use the dropper to take out what is not needed, or fill the vial using the droppers, or some variation of these methods, whatever works best for you. FWIW, I tried the probe many years ago, shortly after they became available in the hobby, and was not pleased with them. Too time consuming to calibrate, needed to calibrate too often, and the probes did not last very long. The replacement probes were also expensive. Today, the cost structure may be different, but calibration issues seem to remain. I've stuck with the Kordon kits. \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Lainey Alexander Sent: Saturday, November 07, 2009 10:57 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] pH testers I have the pH test kits that you run via a vial by adding drops and I have a much more expensive probe by Milwaukee and I am not happy with either. The vials drive me crazy because they take too long to set up with getting the water to the right level, adding the drops, washing out the vial etc. plus I can never really tell what the reading is by comparing to the color charts, I don't like this system at all. And the probe just isn't working. I calibrate the probe as per directions, using some kind of calibration liquid that came with it, but each day the probe needs to be re-calibrated and is WAY off, like sometimes up to .7. Does anyone know of a better/easier way to test pH? I do need to monitor my pH because I have planted tanks with injected CO2 and the pH can fluctuate. Also, my tap water pH fluctuates. All of which means I do a lot of testing, and need some way to test that won't be so cumbersome and frustrating. Thank you, Lainey http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 44244	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 11/7/2009
Subject: Re: wisteria/lighting previous question/response revisited

Looks like Ray's writing to me... but I could be wrong. I regularly refer folks to the AHSupply.com site but the rest of the post doesn't look like mine. You could always Google one of the sentences and see what Google finds... such as.... hmmmmm.. that's strange. Google didn't find any of that post. Are you sure that was posted to the group and not just sent to you off-list? How did you have all of that text but not know who gave it to you? Did you copy/paste the info from a website or email or what??? What questions did you have? Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of erikaandnewton Sent: Saturday, November 07, 2009 12:28 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] wisteria/lighting previous question/response revisited ok, i've looked through the archives for posts made by me, and can't find the post that this response was in reference to: ""First make sure that you have "water sprite" ( Ceratopteris thalictroides) rather than Hygrophila difformis AKA "Water Wisteria"- They can be confused. The easiest way to tell them apart is just by seeing how the new leaves form. In true fern like way, the water sprite will unfurl a new branch and set of leaves, while the wisteria will grow out new leaves like most plants and trees. For the 75 gallon, I would recommend a minimum of 100 watts of full spectrum lighting on for at least 10 hours each day - You can build your own 3 sided box to hold the lights inside and then mount one of these kits into them. www.ahsupply.com ( 2 x 55 watt setup) They are very easy to put together and very easy to repair in the future. Just make sure you get good air flow. Or if you are not a DIY person, you can look for a good price on a similar light that is already put together For minimal light such as 100 watts you should stick with lower light tolerant plants Ferns - Java fern, African Fern, Water sprite Mosses - any aquatic moss that is proven temperature tolerant. Anubius plants - many species to choose from Crypts - Many species to choose from Some of the Hygrophilia species are worth a try including wisteria"" who gave me this information please? I have some more questions about the lighting system, which i can either ask on list or off list, and am driving my self bonkers looking for who provided the info in the first place!! erika newark de usa

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 44245	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 11/7/2009
Subject: Re: pH testers

Are you getting this wide swing with the pH right out of your tap? I don't recall if you are on town water or have your own well, though I do seem to remember something about a water softener being in use. If it is not well water, you may want to check with your water people about the pH swings you are seeing, something is not right. \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Lainey Alexander Sent: Saturday, November 07, 2009 3:01 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] pH testers and, to add, I have tried RO plus RO right, and that seems to have issues of its own too. With that method, I can't get the pH over 6 without using some kind of pH adjuster chemicals, and then it gets into constant fussing and monitoring and adding and water changes - I think I'll end up crazier working with that than fixing my tap somehow. Lainey http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com On Nov 7, 2009, at 2:54 PM, Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > I'm not so sure you need to be worrying about your pH as much as > you may be. > pH changes caused by CO2 are NOT the same as pH changes caused by > other > water chemistry factors. What you should be monitoring is your CO2 > output > to make sure you are not wasting CO2. Do you monitor your CO2 levels? > > While the pH may rise and fall based on the CO2 level in the tank, > the GH > and KH should remain relatively constant and because these are > constant, the > fish are not affected. For reasons not known to me, pH fluctuations > caused > by *normal* rising and falling CO2 levels in natural waters DO NOT > cause > problems to fish like pH fluctuations caused by other water parameter > changes... too much carbonic acid and/or other acids released by > decaying > detritus/mulm, low KH levels, etc. This is probably part of God's plan > since He knew that the CO2 levels would rise at night when plants > were not > taking in CO2 and then fall during the day when the plants start > sucking in > the CO2 via photosynthesis. > > You should make sure your CO2 is regulated properly and then start > testing > your pH at a consistent time each day so you can then see a pattern > develop. > For example, if you keep the CO2 levels consistent, 24 hours a day, > your pH > will be much lower first thing in the morning, before you turn on your > lights and then by the end of the day, after the plants have been > sucking up > CO2 all day, the pH level will be higher. BUT... during this entire > fluctuation, the GH and KH should have remained relatively unchanged, > although they will both go down over time without proper tank > maintenance. > If any of these three should crash, that would cause osmoregulatory > shock > issues to your fish. > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the > right > side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, > Month) > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On > Behalf Of Lainey Alexander > Sent: Saturday, November 07, 2009 9:57 AM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Subject: [AquaticLife] pH testers > > I have the pH test kits that you run via a vial by adding drops and > I have a > much more expensive probe by Milwaukee and I am not happy with > either. The > vials drive me crazy because they take too long to set up with > getting the > water to the right level, adding the drops, washing out the vial > etc. plus I > can never really tell what the reading is by comparing to the color > charts, > I don't like this system at all. And the probe just isn't working. I > calibrate the probe as per directions, using some kind of > calibration liquid > that came with it, but each day the probe needs to be re-calibrated > and is > WAY off, like sometimes up to .7. > > Does anyone know of a better/easier way to test pH? > > I do need to monitor my pH because I have planted tanks with injected > CO2 and the pH can fluctuate. Also, my tap water pH fluctuates. All > of which > means I do a lot of testing, and need some way to test that won't > be so > cumbersome and frustrating. > > Thank you, > > Lainey > http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 44246	From: Dora Smith	Date: 11/7/2009
Subject: Re: Algae/Betta Bowl/Dora

Well, yes! And the fish looks happy, and he does his happy fish dance. Yours, Dora Smith Austin, TX tiggernut24@... ----- Original Message ----- From: "kuradi8" <kuradi8@...> To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Saturday, November 07, 2009 11:43 AM Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Algae/Betta Bowl/Dora Fins are up, fish are active and there are "happy (horny) bubbles" on the surface of the water. :o) ~Kai > Harry perry <harryfisherman@...> wrote: > > How do you know the fish is happy?. > ------------------------------------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the home page. Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com to receive the digest, which includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com for the No E-Mail option where you will still be able to read messages on the group and post replies. Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com to receive individual e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 44247	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 11/7/2009
Subject: Re: pH testers

OK. Lets back up to your tap water. What do you mean by it "fluctuates"? Is this based on the right out the tap versus the 48 hour baseline or what? Maybe you should start a couple of 48 hour baseline tests, one today, one on Sunday and one on Monday and monitor them and their final results on Monday, Tuesday and Wednesday and let us know the beginning and end numbers for each day. Remind us about your water supply again. Public utility (and where do they get their water), well water, reservoir, etc.? Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Lainey Alexander Sent: Saturday, November 07, 2009 1:58 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] pH testers Hi Lenny - I understand what you are saying about CO2 causing OK pH swings, but the main problem I am having now is that my tap water apparently fluctuates between 7.4 and 8.5! I finally figured this out in the past few days. This is one reason I am being driven insane by my pH issues. I'll work it out, somehow, but for now I think I do need to monitor my tap water and its effects in the tanks. Thanks, Lainey http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com On Nov 7, 2009, at 2:54 PM, Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > I'm not so sure you need to be worrying about your pH as much as you > may be. > pH changes caused by CO2 are NOT the same as pH changes caused by > other water chemistry factors. What you should be monitoring is your > CO2 output to make sure you are not wasting CO2. Do you monitor your > CO2 levels? > > While the pH may rise and fall based on the CO2 level in the tank, the > GH and KH should remain relatively constant and because these are > constant, the fish are not affected. For reasons not known to me, pH > fluctuations caused by *normal* rising and falling CO2 levels in > natural waters DO NOT cause problems to fish like pH fluctuations > caused by other water parameter changes... too much carbonic acid > and/or other acids released by decaying detritus/mulm, low KH levels, > etc. This is probably part of God's plan since He knew that the CO2 > levels would rise at night when plants were not taking in CO2 and then > fall during the day when the plants start sucking in the CO2 via > photosynthesis. > > You should make sure your CO2 is regulated properly and then start > testing your pH at a consistent time each day so you can then see a > pattern develop. > For example, if you keep the CO2 levels consistent, 24 hours a day, > your pH will be much lower first thing in the morning, before you turn > on your lights and then by the end of the day, after the plants have > been sucking up > CO2 all day, the pH level will be higher. BUT... during this entire > fluctuation, the GH and KH should have remained relatively unchanged, > although they will both go down over time without proper tank > maintenance. > If any of these three should crash, that would cause osmoregulatory > shock issues to your fish. > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles > referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically > under Labels and also under Archives by Year, > Month) > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Lainey Alexander > Sent: Saturday, November 07, 2009 9:57 AM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Subject: [AquaticLife] pH testers > > I have the pH test kits that you run via a vial by adding drops and I > have a much more expensive probe by Milwaukee and I am not happy with > either. The vials drive me crazy because they take too long to set up > with getting the water to the right level, adding the drops, washing > out the vial etc. plus I can never really tell what the reading is by > comparing to the color charts, I don't like this system at all. And > the probe just isn't working. I calibrate the probe as per directions, > using some kind of calibration liquid that came with it, but each day > the probe needs to be re-calibrated and is WAY off, like sometimes up > to .7. > > Does anyone know of a better/easier way to test pH? > > I do need to monitor my pH because I have planted tanks with injected > CO2 and the pH can fluctuate. Also, my tap water pH fluctuates. All of > which means I do a lot of testing, and need some way to test that > won't be so cumbersome and frustrating. > > Thank you, > > Lainey > http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 44248	From: erikaandnewton	Date: 11/7/2009
Subject: Re: stuck thermometer?

its probably the alcohol kind. its glass, can either float or be suction cupped to the side, silver stuff in the bottom, but im pretty sure thats just for looks, red line that goes up to the yellow and green colored "safety zone" erika newark de usa --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@...> wrote: > > What kind of thermometer do you have? > > There are many types... from the red-colored alcohol to mercury to stick on > liquid crystal (plastic strip types) to digital, etc. > > I'm guessing you had a red-alcohol or mercury one but let us know. > > In either case, you are right that they usually do not fail. They certainly > could be off by a degree or two, but that is usually due to the chart/scale > being in the wrong place, rather than the fluid inside the tube. > > I use a couple of different types. I have a mercury one that is enclosed in > a sealed glass test-tube with metal pellets at the bottom to keep it > floating upright. If you have big, aggressive fish, this type is not always > recommended as the bigger aggressive fish might decide to slam it around and > possibly break it. I've had it for many years in many tanks but never with > big, aggressive fish. I also have one of the stick-on plastic strip types > (actually liquid crystal). > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right > side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) > > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On > Behalf Of erikaandnewton > Sent: Saturday, November 07, 2009 6:38 AM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Subject: [AquaticLife] stuck thermometer? > > so i had an impulse buy of some newts, forgetting they like cooler > temperatures than my frogs. i set up a tank for them, put in a heater just > to keep it from getting below 68, dropped in the thermometer i had been > using in the frog tank (which had shown me varying temps as should be > expected) and went about my chores. a few hours later i checked on the tank, > the thermometer read 80 degrees. stuck my finger in and thought "odd, > doesn't even feel as warm as the frog tank", unplugged the heater and left > the lid open. a few hours later, still read at 80 degrees. so, took the > brand new thermometer out of the frog tank and put it in the newt tank. a > nice cool 68ish degrees. i stuck the old thermometer in the fridge and > checked on it this morning. whatdya know my fridge is 80 degrees. so now im > paranoid that a regular ordinary thermometer can malfunction. something i > never thought could occur. my question is, what kind of thermometer do i > have to buy to make sure i'm getting an accurate reading? > > erika newark de usa > > > > ------------------------------------ > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. > ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> > PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to > the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT > LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- > <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. > > If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of unsubscribing, you > can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the > home page. > > Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com to receive the digest, which > includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email > > Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com for the No E-Mail option where > you will still be able to read messages on the group and post replies. > > Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com to receive individual > e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 44249	From: toddswoman496861@aim.com	Date: 11/7/2009
Subject: just curious.

Until the other day, I had only seen and heard of black mollies. I then saw some silver mollies and Dalmation mollies. How many colorations of mollies are there? Kate Dale [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 44250	From: Lainey Alexander	Date: 11/7/2009
Subject: Re: pH testers

I don't have any issues with seeing color, and I have asked several people to look at the color charts and everyone sees a different color! Lainey http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com On Nov 7, 2009, at 3:30 PM, Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > To elaborate on my earlier post and this one from \\Steve//, the > experts say > that as many as 25% of adults suffer from some type of color- > blindness. > Here are some free online tests to find out if you do have any type of > color-blindness which can make reading the color charts more > difficult. > > Simple - http://www.toledo-bend.com/colorblind/Ishihara.asp > > A little better - http://colorvisiontesting.com/online%20test.htm > > A BIG TIME test - http://www.xrite.com/worldwide.aspx (click on your > region/language) Here is the one for the US/English... > http://www.xrite.com/custom_page.aspx?PageID=77 > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the > right > side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, > Month) > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On > Behalf Of Steve Szabo > Sent: Saturday, November 07, 2009 12:26 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] pH testers > > Lainey, > > Those methods are the two best methods for measuring pH. > > The probes are relatively sensitive, and do need to be recalibrated > before > each use. They should actually be calibrated with 3 different > solutions, one > a pH 4.0, one at pH 7.0, and one at, I believe, pH 10.0, The probes > to need > to be replaced after a period of time when they no longer > calibrate. What > the period of time is depends on the quality of the probe itself > (the part > you put into the water) and the water being tested. > > A good test kit can give you very accurate readings. Do you have a > problem > distinguishing colors other than with the test kits? If so, this > can be a > problem. If you do not, you may need to change your kit to one that I > recommend. It is Kordon's AquaTru. They are not inexpensive, like > the API > kits are. They will cost you some real money. They have the colors, > also, > but the colors are easier to read, since they are part of the vial, > and you > have your test water and clear(?) water to read the colors through. > One of > the problems people face is that, though they think so, their water > is not > really colorless, and it can affect the colors they see from the test > sample, making it hard, sometimes, to distinguish the proper color. > The > Kordon kits take this part out of the equation. However, it may not > help if > you normally have problems distinguishing variations of color. > > To help with the proper leveling of water, you may want to pick up > a supply > of those plastic droppers that were talked about the other day (I > know, they > called them pipettes with a bulb on the end, but to normal people, > they are > droppers). You can just fill the vials up with water, and then use the > dropper to take out what is not needed, or fill the vial using the > droppers, > or some variation of these methods, whatever works best for you. > > FWIW, I tried the probe many years ago, shortly after they became > available > in the hobby, and was not pleased with them. Too time consuming to > calibrate, needed to calibrate too often, and the probes did not > last very > long. The replacement probes were also expensive. Today, the cost > structure > may be different, but calibration issues seem to remain. I've stuck > with the > Kordon kits. > > \\Steve// > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On > Behalf Of Lainey Alexander > Sent: Saturday, November 07, 2009 10:57 AM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Subject: [AquaticLife] pH testers > > I have the pH test kits that you run via a vial by adding drops and > I have a > much more expensive probe by Milwaukee and I am not happy with > either. The > vials drive me crazy because they take too long to set up with > getting the > water to the right level, adding the drops, washing out the vial > etc. plus I > can never really tell what the reading is by comparing to the color > charts, > I don't like this system at all. And the probe just isn't working. I > calibrate the probe as per directions, using some kind of > calibration liquid > that came with it, but each day the probe needs to be re-calibrated > and is > WAY off, like sometimes up to .7. > > Does anyone know of a better/easier way to test pH? > > I do need to monitor my pH because I have planted tanks with injected > CO2 and the pH can fluctuate. Also, my tap water pH fluctuates. All > of which > means I do a lot of testing, and need some way to test that won't > be so > cumbersome and frustrating. > > Thank you, > > Lainey > http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 44251	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 11/7/2009
Subject: Re: stuck thermometer?

OK. The "silver stuff in the bottom" is probably on the outside of the actual thermometer. The thermometer is the actual thin tube with the liquid inside it. The glass housing and temperature chart are on the outside of the thin tube. The "silver stuff" is probably little metal balls that are used to provide ballast to the floating thermometer so it floats in an upright position. The "silver stuff" is also covering the fluid filled bulb at the bottom of the actual thermometer, which in your case is probably filled with red-colored alcohol. While the red-colored alcohol thermometers do work, as a general rule, they are not as accurate as mercury filled thermometers but for things like our fish tanks, etc., we do not need micro-calibrated thermometers.... just something to let us know if it's around 75-76 or 78-79, etc. It's unusual for them to fail but if you remember in the old days, our parents would grab the top of the mercury filled thermometer and shake/snap it downward a couple of times to *push* the liquid down into the bulb before using it on us kids. I guess this was to get any possible air bubbles that might have gotten down into the bulb and would affect the level. You could try this with yours and see if that fixes things before trashing it. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of erikaandnewton Sent: Saturday, November 07, 2009 2:25 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: stuck thermometer? its probably the alcohol kind. its glass, can either float or be suction cupped to the side, silver stuff in the bottom, but im pretty sure thats just for looks, red line that goes up to the yellow and green colored "safety zone" erika newark de usa --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@...> wrote: > > What kind of thermometer do you have? > > There are many types... from the red-colored alcohol to mercury to > stick on liquid crystal (plastic strip types) to digital, etc. > > I'm guessing you had a red-alcohol or mercury one but let us know. > > In either case, you are right that they usually do not fail. They > certainly could be off by a degree or two, but that is usually due to > the chart/scale being in the wrong place, rather than the fluid inside the tube. > > I use a couple of different types. I have a mercury one that is > enclosed in a sealed glass test-tube with metal pellets at the bottom > to keep it floating upright. If you have big, aggressive fish, this > type is not always recommended as the bigger aggressive fish might > decide to slam it around and possibly break it. I've had it for many > years in many tanks but never with big, aggressive fish. I also have > one of the stick-on plastic strip types (actually liquid crystal). > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles > referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically > under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) > > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] > On Behalf Of erikaandnewton > Sent: Saturday, November 07, 2009 6:38 AM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Subject: [AquaticLife] stuck thermometer? > > so i had an impulse buy of some newts, forgetting they like cooler > temperatures than my frogs. i set up a tank for them, put in a heater > just to keep it from getting below 68, dropped in the thermometer i > had been using in the frog tank (which had shown me varying temps as > should be > expected) and went about my chores. a few hours later i checked on the > tank, the thermometer read 80 degrees. stuck my finger in and thought > "odd, doesn't even feel as warm as the frog tank", unplugged the > heater and left the lid open. a few hours later, still read at 80 > degrees. so, took the brand new thermometer out of the frog tank and > put it in the newt tank. a nice cool 68ish degrees. i stuck the old > thermometer in the fridge and checked on it this morning. whatdya know > my fridge is 80 degrees. so now im paranoid that a regular ordinary > thermometer can malfunction. something i never thought could occur. my > question is, what kind of thermometer do i have to buy to make sure i'm getting an accurate reading? > > erika newark de usa

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 44252	From: Lainey Alexander	Date: 11/7/2009
Subject: Re: pH testers

It's a well and the pH I am testing as it comes out of the tap but then also over the next two days and it stays where it comes out of the tap. Problem is, it is anywhere from 7.4 to 8.5 when it comes out of the tap. That's why I can never get a system going, because my levels are all over the place. Then add in the CO2 and it gets even more confusing. Lainey http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com On Nov 7, 2009, at 3:50 PM, Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > OK. Lets back up to your tap water. What do you mean by it > "fluctuates"? > Is this based on the right out the tap versus the 48 hour baseline > or what? > > Maybe you should start a couple of 48 hour baseline tests, one > today, one on > Sunday and one on Monday and monitor them and their final results > on Monday, > Tuesday and Wednesday and let us know the beginning and end numbers > for each > day. > > Remind us about your water supply again. Public utility (and where > do they > get their water), well water, reservoir, etc.? > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the > right > side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, > Month) > > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On > Behalf Of Lainey Alexander > Sent: Saturday, November 07, 2009 1:58 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] pH testers > > Hi Lenny - > > I understand what you are saying about CO2 causing OK pH swings, > but the > main problem I am having now is that my tap water apparently > fluctuates > between 7.4 and 8.5! I finally figured this out in the past few > days. This > is one reason I am being driven insane by my pH issues. > > I'll work it out, somehow, but for now I think I do need to monitor > my tap > water and its effects in the tanks. > > Thanks, > > Lainey > http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com > > On Nov 7, 2009, at 2:54 PM, Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > > > I'm not so sure you need to be worrying about your pH as much as you > > may be. > > pH changes caused by CO2 are NOT the same as pH changes caused by > > other water chemistry factors. What you should be monitoring is your > > CO2 output to make sure you are not wasting CO2. Do you monitor your > > CO2 levels? > > > > While the pH may rise and fall based on the CO2 level in the > tank, the > > GH and KH should remain relatively constant and because these are > > constant, the fish are not affected. For reasons not known to me, pH > > fluctuations caused by *normal* rising and falling CO2 levels in > > natural waters DO NOT cause problems to fish like pH fluctuations > > caused by other water parameter changes... too much carbonic acid > > and/or other acids released by decaying detritus/mulm, low KH > levels, > > etc. This is probably part of God's plan since He knew that the CO2 > > levels would rise at night when plants were not taking in CO2 and > then > > fall during the day when the plants start sucking in the CO2 via > > photosynthesis. > > > > You should make sure your CO2 is regulated properly and then start > > testing your pH at a consistent time each day so you can then see a > > pattern develop. > > For example, if you keep the CO2 levels consistent, 24 hours a day, > > your pH will be much lower first thing in the morning, before you > turn > > on your lights and then by the end of the day, after the plants have > > been sucking up > > CO2 all day, the pH level will be higher. BUT... during this entire > > fluctuation, the GH and KH should have remained relatively > unchanged, > > although they will both go down over time without proper tank > > maintenance. > > If any of these three should crash, that would cause osmoregulatory > > shock issues to your fish. > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles > > referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, > alphabetically > > under Labels and also under Archives by Year, > > Month) > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Lainey Alexander > > Sent: Saturday, November 07, 2009 9:57 AM > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > Subject: [AquaticLife] pH testers > > > > I have the pH test kits that you run via a vial by adding drops > and I > > have a much more expensive probe by Milwaukee and I am not happy > with > > either. The vials drive me crazy because they take too long to > set up > > with getting the water to the right level, adding the drops, washing > > out the vial etc. plus I can never really tell what the reading > is by > > comparing to the color charts, I don't like this system at all. And > > the probe just isn't working. I calibrate the probe as per > directions, > > using some kind of calibration liquid that came with it, but each > day > > the probe needs to be re-calibrated and is WAY off, like > sometimes up > > to .7. > > > > Does anyone know of a better/easier way to test pH? > > > > I do need to monitor my pH because I have planted tanks with > injected > > CO2 and the pH can fluctuate. Also, my tap water pH fluctuates. > All of > > which means I do a lot of testing, and need some way to test that > > won't be so cumbersome and frustrating. > > > > Thank you, > > > > Lainey > > http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 44253	From: kuradi8	Date: 11/7/2009
Subject: Re: Algae/Betta Bowl

I think we're (quote-unquote) "arguing" over wording. Just how small do you think the bowl is? The problem is the amount of bright light the bowl is exposed to throughout the day. It's under her table/reading lamp. Mom spends her days reading and watching Kala. And therefore the algae blooms. Yes, that means keeping an eye on it and a more frequent maintenance schedule. Harry's suggestion of every day seems too often and will cause the water to cycle continuously instead of stabilize. Remember that wild Bettas live in very murky rice paddies. Algae is not as objectionable to them as it is to us. ~Kai > Lenny V. wrote: > > UH OH... I see a can of worms... and I've got my can opener ready! LOL > > Yes, they "CAN" live in a bowl but that doesn't mean they should live in a > bowl. This would be analogous to saying a family of four "CAN" live in an > 8' x 8' room with a hole in the ground for a toilet... but that doesn't mean > they *should* live in that type of home. It also doesn't mean that the > government should create another government program to give larger homes to > people that can't afford them out of their own income. LOL > > Doing a 25% PWC every day and using a small algae scrubber on the inside of > the glass and then siphoning the gravel at least once a week or more, as > needed, will go a long way to improving the water quality and thus lessening > the algae growth. > > Also see my other reply before this one. > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right > side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) > > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On > Behalf Of kuradi8 > Sent: Saturday, November 07, 2009 11:06 AM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Algae/Betta Bowl > > Because Bettas are surface breathers, they CAN live in bowls. (Bowls > meaning they don't need aeration.) The one he's in isn't "small" but I'm on > the lookout for a larger one or small tank, preferably at a Salvation Army > price. > > Cleaning the bowl every day would mean too much of a water change and that > would screw up his little ecosystem, having the water cycling all the time. > ~Kai > > > > > --- Harry wrote: > > > > Clean the bowl every day and explain to Momma fish don't belong in bowls. > A small tank is cheap at Walmart. > > Harry > > > > --- On Sat, 11/7/09, Dora Smith <tiggernut24@> wrote: > > > > > > Sounds like someone has to go over to Momma's house every once in a > while and clean the bowl. > > > > Yours, > > > > Dora Smith > > > > Austin, TX > > > > tiggernut24@ yahoo.com > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > > > > I got Mom a Betta a month or two back and his bowl is under the big > > table > > > > lamp that she uses to read -- all day. So no wonder his bowl gets > > bright > > > > green with algae growth. The answer is to move his bowl but no, it's > > the > > > > most convenient place and she likes having him there. > > > > > > > > I mentioned getting a snail but someone replied that Mystery Snails > > don't > > > > eat algae -- they eat the food that falls to the bottom. But other > > posts > > > > say they DO eat algae. > > > > > > > > So which is it? And will s/he eat enough of it to keep Kala's algae > > problem > > > > kinda-sorta under control? > > > > > > > > It's not easy being greeeeeeeen. .. > > > > ~Kai >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 44254	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 11/7/2009
Subject: Re: pH testers

Well, if everyone is seeing different colors, it certainly sounds like an acid problem... LSD flashbacks or have all your friends been licking them hallucinogenic toads lately? LOL But now being serious again... take the three free tests to make sure you do not suffer any color-blindness and if your friends are seeing different colors, then have them take the tests also so you'll know who you can trust in the future for second opinions on color. I know that I do have some color-blindness but at least I know which colors I do not see as well so I can compensate accordingly. Once again, complete accuracy is not needed but you should be able to tell the difference between 7.4 and 8.4 as there are major differences. BTW, you mentioned "7.4 and 8.5" but the API cards go up only by even numbers on the pH test cards. Even with 7.4 to 7.8, there is a major difference in color on the API High Range pH test card but on the low range card, the colors are much closer for that range. Are you using the two different test kits... one for Low pH range and one for High pH range? Are you possibly comingling the directions? The Low pH range bottle (actually just called pH Indicator Solution on my API kit, only uses 3 drops where the High range pH Indicator Solution uses 5 drops. Just trying to eliminate any possibility of human error. If I remember right now, after reading more of your recent posts, you have well water that is pretty funky and you have it running through a couple of filters/softeners first.... right? If yes, check your filters to make sure they are working properly. Also, when your tap water comes out one day at 7.4 and another day at 8.4, run 48 hour baselines on each of them to see where they end up. Just because you've done this in the past and they stayed the same does NOT mean that it will stay the same this time. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Lainey Alexander Sent: Saturday, November 07, 2009 2:58 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] pH testers I don't have any issues with seeing color, and I have asked several people to look at the color charts and everyone sees a different color! Lainey http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com On Nov 7, 2009, at 3:30 PM, Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > To elaborate on my earlier post and this one from \\Steve//, the > experts say that as many as 25% of adults suffer from some type of > color- blindness. > Here are some free online tests to find out if you do have any type of > color-blindness which can make reading the color charts more > difficult. > > Simple - http://www.toledo-bend.com/colorblind/Ishihara.asp > > A little better - http://colorvisiontesting.com/online%20test.htm > > A BIG TIME test - http://www.xrite.com/worldwide.aspx (click on your > region/language) Here is the one for the US/English... > http://www.xrite.com/custom_page.aspx?PageID=77 > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles > referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically > under Labels and also under Archives by Year, > Month) > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Steve Szabo > Sent: Saturday, November 07, 2009 12:26 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] pH testers > > Lainey, > > Those methods are the two best methods for measuring pH. > > The probes are relatively sensitive, and do need to be recalibrated > before each use. They should actually be calibrated with 3 different > solutions, one a pH 4.0, one at pH 7.0, and one at, I believe, pH > 10.0, The probes to need to be replaced after a period of time when > they no longer calibrate. What the period of time is depends on the > quality of the probe itself (the part you put into the water) and the > water being tested. > > A good test kit can give you very accurate readings. Do you have a > problem distinguishing colors other than with the test kits? If so, > this can be a problem. If you do not, you may need to change your kit > to one that I recommend. It is Kordon's AquaTru. They are not > inexpensive, like the API kits are. They will cost you some real > money. They have the colors, also, but the colors are easier to read, > since they are part of the vial, and you have your test water and > clear(?) water to read the colors through. > One of > the problems people face is that, though they think so, their water is > not really colorless, and it can affect the colors they see from the > test sample, making it hard, sometimes, to distinguish the proper > color. > The > Kordon kits take this part out of the equation. However, it may not > help if you normally have problems distinguishing variations of color. > > To help with the proper leveling of water, you may want to pick up a > supply of those plastic droppers that were talked about the other day > (I know, they called them pipettes with a bulb on the end, but to > normal people, they are droppers). You can just fill the vials up with > water, and then use the dropper to take out what is not needed, or > fill the vial using the droppers, or some variation of these methods, > whatever works best for you. > > FWIW, I tried the probe many years ago, shortly after they became > available in the hobby, and was not pleased with them. Too time > consuming to calibrate, needed to calibrate too often, and the probes > did not last very long. The replacement probes were also expensive. > Today, the cost structure may be different, but calibration issues > seem to remain. I've stuck with the Kordon kits. > > \\Steve// > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Lainey Alexander > Sent: Saturday, November 07, 2009 10:57 AM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Subject: [AquaticLife] pH testers > > I have the pH test kits that you run via a vial by adding drops and I > have a much more expensive probe by Milwaukee and I am not happy with > either. The vials drive me crazy because they take too long to set up > with getting the water to the right level, adding the drops, washing > out the vial etc. plus I can never really tell what the reading is by > comparing to the color charts, I don't like this system at all. And > the probe just isn't working. I calibrate the probe as per directions, > using some kind of calibration liquid that came with it, but each day > the probe needs to be re-calibrated and is WAY off, like sometimes up > to .7. > > Does anyone know of a better/easier way to test pH? > > I do need to monitor my pH because I have planted tanks with injected > CO2 and the pH can fluctuate. Also, my tap water pH fluctuates. All of > which means I do a lot of testing, and need some way to test that > won't be so cumbersome and frustrating. > > Thank you, > > Lainey > http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 44255	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 11/7/2009
Subject: Re: just curious.

Countless color variations if you consider all the various calico color schemes that abound due to all of the selective inbreeding that has been done to create the fancy color schemes. There aren't many *natural* mollies being sold in pet stores any longer. Read more about Mollies and other livebearers here... including descriptions of their many *natural* color schemes in the wild. http://fish.mongabay.com/poeciliidae.htm Dalmatian mollies are a hybrid/inbreed to get the dalmatian (black spotted) look. If you want *natural* colored mollies, even if they are being bred now and not actually caught from the wild, you might want to check on Aquabid or join the American Livebearers Association and they probably have people there that breed them. Bear in mind that many of these hybrids and inbred fish, to come up with these fancy color schemes, have a lot more health issues compared to natural fish. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of toddswoman496861@... Sent: Saturday, November 07, 2009 2:58 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] just curious. Until the other day, I had only seen and heard of black mollies. I then saw some silver mollies and Dalmation mollies. How many colorations of mollies are there? Kate Dale

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 44256	From: Lainey Alexander	Date: 11/7/2009
Subject: Re: pH testers

I have to laugh because I am one step ahead of you on all of these ideas, have tried all of this:) I do have the high range pH and I have checked my equipment on the well water. I think what is happening is that the water comes in from the well and goes through three filters, and the filters recharge at different points, and there must be pH swings when the equipment is cycling. Ugh. Lainey http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com On Nov 7, 2009, at 4:26 PM, Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > Well, if everyone is seeing different colors, it certainly sounds > like an > acid problem... LSD flashbacks or have all your friends been > licking them > hallucinogenic toads lately? LOL > > But now being serious again... take the three free tests to make > sure you do > not suffer any color-blindness and if your friends are seeing > different > colors, then have them take the tests also so you'll know who you > can trust > in the future for second opinions on color. I know that I do have some > color-blindness but at least I know which colors I do not see as > well so I > can compensate accordingly. > > Once again, complete accuracy is not needed but you should be able > to tell > the difference between 7.4 and 8.4 as there are major differences. > BTW, you > mentioned "7.4 and 8.5" but the API cards go up only by even > numbers on the > pH test cards. Even with 7.4 to 7.8, there is a major difference in > color > on the API High Range pH test card but on the low range card, the > colors are > much closer for that range. Are you using the two different test > kits... > one for Low pH range and one for High pH range? Are you possibly > comingling > the directions? The Low pH range bottle (actually just called pH > Indicator > Solution on my API kit, only uses 3 drops where the High range pH > Indicator > Solution uses 5 drops. Just trying to eliminate any possibility of > human > error. > > If I remember right now, after reading more of your recent posts, > you have > well water that is pretty funky and you have it running through a > couple of > filters/softeners first.... right? If yes, check your filters to > make sure > they are working properly. > > Also, when your tap water comes out one day at 7.4 and another day > at 8.4, > run 48 hour baselines on each of them to see where they end up. Just > because you've done this in the past and they stayed the same does > NOT mean > that it will stay the same this time. > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the > right > side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, > Month) > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On > Behalf Of Lainey Alexander > Sent: Saturday, November 07, 2009 2:58 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] pH testers > > I don't have any issues with seeing color, and I have asked several > people > to look at the color charts and everyone sees a different color! > > Lainey > http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com > > On Nov 7, 2009, at 3:30 PM, Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > > > To elaborate on my earlier post and this one from \\Steve//, the > > experts say that as many as 25% of adults suffer from some type of > > color- blindness. > > Here are some free online tests to find out if you do have any > type of > > color-blindness which can make reading the color charts more > > difficult. > > > > Simple - http://www.toledo-bend.com/colorblind/Ishihara.asp > > > > A little better - http://colorvisiontesting.com/online%20test.htm > > > > A BIG TIME test - http://www.xrite.com/worldwide.aspx (click on your > > region/language) Here is the one for the US/English... > > http://www.xrite.com/custom_page.aspx?PageID=77 > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles > > referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, > alphabetically > > under Labels and also under Archives by Year, > > Month) > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Steve Szabo > > Sent: Saturday, November 07, 2009 12:26 PM > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] pH testers > > > > Lainey, > > > > Those methods are the two best methods for measuring pH. > > > > The probes are relatively sensitive, and do need to be recalibrated > > before each use. They should actually be calibrated with 3 different > > solutions, one a pH 4.0, one at pH 7.0, and one at, I believe, pH > > 10.0, The probes to need to be replaced after a period of time when > > they no longer calibrate. What the period of time is depends on the > > quality of the probe itself (the part you put into the water) and > the > > water being tested. > > > > A good test kit can give you very accurate readings. Do you have a > > problem distinguishing colors other than with the test kits? If so, > > this can be a problem. If you do not, you may need to change your > kit > > to one that I recommend. It is Kordon's AquaTru. They are not > > inexpensive, like the API kits are. They will cost you some real > > money. They have the colors, also, but the colors are easier to > read, > > since they are part of the vial, and you have your test water and > > clear(?) water to read the colors through. > > One of > > the problems people face is that, though they think so, their > water is > > not really colorless, and it can affect the colors they see from the > > test sample, making it hard, sometimes, to distinguish the proper > > color. > > The > > Kordon kits take this part out of the equation. However, it may not > > help if you normally have problems distinguishing variations of > color. > > > > To help with the proper leveling of water, you may want to pick up a > > supply of those plastic droppers that were talked about the other > day > > (I know, they called them pipettes with a bulb on the end, but to > > normal people, they are droppers). You can just fill the vials up > with > > water, and then use the dropper to take out what is not needed, or > > fill the vial using the droppers, or some variation of these > methods, > > whatever works best for you. > > > > FWIW, I tried the probe many years ago, shortly after they became > > available in the hobby, and was not pleased with them. Too time > > consuming to calibrate, needed to calibrate too often, and the > probes > > did not last very long. The replacement probes were also expensive. > > Today, the cost structure may be different, but calibration issues > > seem to remain. I've stuck with the Kordon kits. > > > > \\Steve// > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Lainey Alexander > > Sent: Saturday, November 07, 2009 10:57 AM > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > Subject: [AquaticLife] pH testers > > > > I have the pH test kits that you run via a vial by adding drops > and I > > have a much more expensive probe by Milwaukee and I am not happy > with > > either. The vials drive me crazy because they take too long to > set up > > with getting the water to the right level, adding the drops, washing > > out the vial etc. plus I can never really tell what the reading > is by > > comparing to the color charts, I don't like this system at all. And > > the probe just isn't working. I calibrate the probe as per > directions, > > using some kind of calibration liquid that came with it, but each > day > > the probe needs to be re-calibrated and is WAY off, like > sometimes up > > to .7. > > > > Does anyone know of a better/easier way to test pH? > > > > I do need to monitor my pH because I have planted tanks with > injected > > CO2 and the pH can fluctuate. Also, my tap water pH fluctuates. > All of > > which means I do a lot of testing, and need some way to test that > > won't be so cumbersome and frustrating. > > > > Thank you, > > > > Lainey > > http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 44257	From: biG poppa	Date: 11/7/2009
Subject: Re: just curious.

lots sail fin black mollies,sail fin spotted mollies, gold mollies, wild mollies.florida mollies, to name a few --- On Sat, 11/7/09, toddswoman496861@... <toddswoman496861@...> wrote: From: toddswoman496861@... <toddswoman496861@...> Subject: [AquaticLife] just curious. To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Date: Saturday, November 7, 2009, 3:58 PM   Until the other day, I had only seen and heard of black mollies. I then saw some silver mollies and Dalmation mollies. How many colorations of mollies are there? Kate Dale [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 44258	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 11/7/2009
Subject: Re: Algae/Betta Bowl

Well, it's not how small *I* think the bowl is, although it would be better if folks gave an actual size of the bowl... just like with a tank. Doing 10% or 25% PWC's every day on any fish tank/bowl will not cause cycling issues. All it will do is remove some of the dirty water and replace it with clean water. Fish that live in streams and rivers get new water constantly. Fish in lakes or bays get new water as the rivers flow into them or tides bring in new waters. When we keep our fish in our tanks/bowls or whatever and keep them in the same water for days or weeks or months at a time, we are NOT doing it the way things are done in nature. In filtered tanks, doing a weekly PWC is OK as long as the bioload isn't too heavy. In an unfiltered Betta bowl, doing more frequent PWC's is recommended, especially since these fish are mostly carnivores and their protein rich foods cause water quality issues much faster. Yes, wild Bettas are often found in rice paddies and stagnant type water conditions which is why they've developed a labyrinth organ over thousands/millions of years (or God just created them that way to start with) but even in those waters, they have more than a gallon or two of water per fish. Each fish probably has 10's of gallons of water (because of their aggressiveness to each other) and the water is heavily planted and gets lots of rain fall or other water influx to keep the rice paddies water logged. The labyrinth comes into play when there waters start to dry up or get too stagnant and they are forced to breathe surface air to survive until the next rainfall or other influx of water. Here's a snip from... http://animaldiversity.ummz.umich.edu/site/accounts/information/Betta_splend ens.html which is actually a pretty good profile on Betta Splendens (common Bettas) and I might have to look around this University of Michigan site for more good profiles (although my dad might be frowning down on me since he went to Ohio State... Geaux Buckeyes... as long as they're not playing my LSU Tigers!) (START SNIP) During the dry season, most Bettas are able to bury themselves in the bottom of their dried up habitat. There, they can live in moist cavities until water once again fills the depression during a rainy period. The fish can survive even if thick, clay mud is all that is left of the water. They do not survive total drying out of the bottom. (Vierke 1988) (END SNIP) Also see my earlier post about other solutions to the algae problem. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of kuradi8 Sent: Saturday, November 07, 2009 3:10 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Algae/Betta Bowl I think we're (quote-unquote) "arguing" over wording. Just how small do you think the bowl is? The problem is the amount of bright light the bowl is exposed to throughout the day. It's under her table/reading lamp. Mom spends her days reading and watching Kala. And therefore the algae blooms. Yes, that means keeping an eye on it and a more frequent maintenance schedule. Harry's suggestion of every day seems too often and will cause the water to cycle continuously instead of stabilize. Remember that wild Bettas live in very murky rice paddies. Algae is not as objectionable to them as it is to us. ~Kai > Lenny V. wrote: > > UH OH... I see a can of worms... and I've got my can opener ready! > LOL > > Yes, they "CAN" live in a bowl but that doesn't mean they should live > in a bowl. This would be analogous to saying a family of four "CAN" > live in an 8' x 8' room with a hole in the ground for a toilet... but > that doesn't mean they *should* live in that type of home. It also > doesn't mean that the government should create another government > program to give larger homes to people that can't afford them out of > their own income. LOL > > Doing a 25% PWC every day and using a small algae scrubber on the > inside of the glass and then siphoning the gravel at least once a week > or more, as needed, will go a long way to improving the water quality > and thus lessening the algae growth. > > Also see my other reply before this one. > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles > referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically > under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) > > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] > On Behalf Of kuradi8 > Sent: Saturday, November 07, 2009 11:06 AM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Algae/Betta Bowl > > Because Bettas are surface breathers, they CAN live in bowls. (Bowls > meaning they don't need aeration.) The one he's in isn't "small" but > I'm on the lookout for a larger one or small tank, preferably at a > Salvation Army price. > > Cleaning the bowl every day would mean too much of a water change and > that would screw up his little ecosystem, having the water cycling all the time. > ~Kai > > > > > --- Harry wrote: > > > > Clean the bowl every day and explain to Momma fish don't belong in bowls. > A small tank is cheap at Walmart. > > Harry > > > > --- On Sat, 11/7/09, Dora Smith <tiggernut24@> wrote: > > > > > > Sounds like someone has to go over to Momma's house every once > > in a > while and clean the bowl. > > > > Yours, > > > > Dora Smith > > > > Austin, TX > > > > tiggernut24@ yahoo.com > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > > > > I got Mom a Betta a month or two back and his bowl is under the big > > table > > > > lamp that she uses to read -- all day. So no wonder his bowl gets > > bright > > > > green with algae growth. The answer is to move his bowl but no, > > it's the > > > > most convenient place and she likes having him there. > > > > > > > > I mentioned getting a snail but someone replied that Mystery Snails > > don't > > > > eat algae -- they eat the food that falls to the bottom. But other > > posts > > > > say they DO eat algae. > > > > > > > > So which is it? And will s/he eat enough of it to keep Kala's algae > > problem > > > > kinda-sorta under control? > > > > > > > > It's not easy being greeeeeeeen. .. > > > > ~Kai > ------------------------------------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the home page. Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com to receive the digest, which includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com for the No E-Mail option where you will still be able to read messages on the group and post replies. Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com to receive individual e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 44259	From: Miquela	Date: 11/7/2009
Subject: Are micro bubbles bad for a freshwater aquarium?

I have been reading about Refugiums and that they have some sort of object to remove micro bubbles. Why do we use on the side filters that pour water back in creating micro bubbles or why do we use air defusers? I'm very confused by this. To have micro bubbles that is the question.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 44260	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 11/7/2009
Subject: Re: just curious.

Frankly, I really do not know, but there may well be more than 100 varieties and species of mollies available, though at any given time, you are not likely to see many of them. Some of the varieties are really hybrids, i.e. developed by crossing two or more species. The blacks you mentioned are of this type of variety. Then, there are many color forms. There are different finnage varieties, the most notable being a true sailfin, which can be almost 6" TL (_Poecilia latipinna_). _Poecilia kykesis_ is also a sailfin, but I have not yet seen a live specimen. It is also commonly called _Poecilia petenensis_, and can reach up to 7". Finally, to complete the sailfins, is _Poecilia velifera_, this fish also grows to about 6" TL. And probably has the largest developed dorsal fin of them all. Then there are lyre tail mollies. I am not sure where the lyre tail comes from, if it was a sport, or developed by crossing with another Poecilia species. They also come in a number of colors. You can do some searching on the web to see what you can find. Use search terms like "mollie varieties" or molly varieties" to see what you can find. If you want to look at the various species of mollies, got to fishbase.org and use "Mollienesia" as your search term in the Genus box (Genus is) and change the species Boolean expression from "is" to "contains". This will bring up a listing, showing you the currently acceptable scientific name for all synonyms that contain Mollienesia as the genus. You will note that they are all Poecilia as listed above, but there are a lot of Poecilia's that are not mollies, and since most of the mollies were once known as Mollienesia, you'll see most of the molly species listed. \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of toddswoman496861@... Sent: Saturday, November 07, 2009 3:58 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] just curious. Until the other day, I had only seen and heard of black mollies. I then saw some silver mollies and Dalmation mollies. How many colorations of mollies are there? Kate Dale

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 44261	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 11/7/2009
Subject: Re: pH testers

Maybe you'll have to get one or two 50G plastic drums (Walmart sells them) and start storing your tap water in them so that you will be able to have a more consistent water supply for your fish. Due to your incoming water issues, having a holding tank where you would have water from several different days to fill them so they will average out and then each time you do a PWC, refill the drums and this should keep them averaged out all the time in the long term. No other easy or low-cost solution is jumping out at me right now. With this, at least you can just use the pH probe on the drums from time to time to make sure they are staying in the average range or not rising or falling too quickly, which they shouldn't since you will filling them the first time with 10 gallons of water each day so they'll each have a five day average of incoming water.... or give up on fish keeping or let nature takes it course and only keep fish or plants that can tolerate your broadly changing water parameters. There are some that will. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Lainey Alexander Sent: Saturday, November 07, 2009 3:48 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] pH testers I have to laugh because I am one step ahead of you on all of these ideas, have tried all of this:) I do have the high range pH and I have checked my equipment on the well water. I think what is happening is that the water comes in from the well and goes through three filters, and the filters recharge at different points, and there must be pH swings when the equipment is cycling. Ugh. Lainey http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com On Nov 7, 2009, at 4:26 PM, Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > Well, if everyone is seeing different colors, it certainly sounds like > an acid problem... LSD flashbacks or have all your friends been > licking them hallucinogenic toads lately? LOL > > But now being serious again... take the three free tests to make sure > you do not suffer any color-blindness and if your friends are seeing > different colors, then have them take the tests also so you'll know > who you can trust in the future for second opinions on color. I know > that I do have some color-blindness but at least I know which colors I > do not see as well so I can compensate accordingly. > > Once again, complete accuracy is not needed but you should be able to > tell the difference between 7.4 and 8.4 as there are major > differences. > BTW, you > mentioned "7.4 and 8.5" but the API cards go up only by even numbers > on the pH test cards. Even with 7.4 to 7.8, there is a major > difference in color on the API High Range pH test card but on the low > range card, the colors are much closer for that range. Are you using > the two different test kits... > one for Low pH range and one for High pH range? Are you possibly > comingling the directions? The Low pH range bottle (actually just > called pH Indicator Solution on my API kit, only uses 3 drops where > the High range pH Indicator Solution uses 5 drops. Just trying to > eliminate any possibility of human error. > > If I remember right now, after reading more of your recent posts, you > have well water that is pretty funky and you have it running through a > couple of filters/softeners first.... right? If yes, check your > filters to make sure they are working properly. > > Also, when your tap water comes out one day at 7.4 and another day at > 8.4, run 48 hour baselines on each of them to see where they end up. > Just because you've done this in the past and they stayed the same > does NOT mean that it will stay the same this time. > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles > referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically > under Labels and also under Archives by Year, > Month) > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Lainey Alexander > Sent: Saturday, November 07, 2009 2:58 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] pH testers > > I don't have any issues with seeing color, and I have asked several > people to look at the color charts and everyone sees a different > color! > > Lainey > http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com > > On Nov 7, 2009, at 3:30 PM, Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > > > To elaborate on my earlier post and this one from \\Steve//, the > > experts say that as many as 25% of adults suffer from some type of > > color- blindness. > > Here are some free online tests to find out if you do have any > type of > > color-blindness which can make reading the color charts more > > difficult. > > > > Simple - http://www.toledo-bend.com/colorblind/Ishihara.asp > > > > A little better - http://colorvisiontesting.com/online%20test.htm > > > > A BIG TIME test - http://www.xrite.com/worldwide.aspx (click on your > > region/language) Here is the one for the US/English... > > http://www.xrite.com/custom_page.aspx?PageID=77 > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles > > referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, > alphabetically > > under Labels and also under Archives by Year, > > Month) > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Steve Szabo > > Sent: Saturday, November 07, 2009 12:26 PM > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] pH testers > > > > Lainey, > > > > Those methods are the two best methods for measuring pH. > > > > The probes are relatively sensitive, and do need to be recalibrated > > before each use. They should actually be calibrated with 3 different > > solutions, one a pH 4.0, one at pH 7.0, and one at, I believe, pH > > 10.0, The probes to need to be replaced after a period of time when > > they no longer calibrate. What the period of time is depends on the > > quality of the probe itself (the part you put into the water) and > the > > water being tested. > > > > A good test kit can give you very accurate readings. Do you have a > > problem distinguishing colors other than with the test kits? If so, > > this can be a problem. If you do not, you may need to change your > kit > > to one that I recommend. It is Kordon's AquaTru. They are not > > inexpensive, like the API kits are. They will cost you some real > > money. They have the colors, also, but the colors are easier to > read, > > since they are part of the vial, and you have your test water and > > clear(?) water to read the colors through. > > One of > > the problems people face is that, though they think so, their > water is > > not really colorless, and it can affect the colors they see from the > > test sample, making it hard, sometimes, to distinguish the proper > > color. > > The > > Kordon kits take this part out of the equation. However, it may not > > help if you normally have problems distinguishing variations of > color. > > > > To help with the proper leveling of water, you may want to pick up a > > supply of those plastic droppers that were talked about the other > day > > (I know, they called them pipettes with a bulb on the end, but to > > normal people, they are droppers). You can just fill the vials up > with > > water, and then use the dropper to take out what is not needed, or > > fill the vial using the droppers, or some variation of these > methods, > > whatever works best for you. > > > > FWIW, I tried the probe many years ago, shortly after they became > > available in the hobby, and was not pleased with them. Too time > > consuming to calibrate, needed to calibrate too often, and the > probes > > did not last very long. The replacement probes were also expensive. > > Today, the cost structure may be different, but calibration issues > > seem to remain. I've stuck with the Kordon kits. > > > > \\Steve// > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Lainey Alexander > > Sent: Saturday, November 07, 2009 10:57 AM > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > Subject: [AquaticLife] pH testers > > > > I have the pH test kits that you run via a vial by adding drops > and I > > have a much more expensive probe by Milwaukee and I am not happy > with > > either. The vials drive me crazy because they take too long to > set up > > with getting the water to the right level, adding the drops, washing > > out the vial etc. plus I can never really tell what the reading > is by > > comparing to the color charts, I don't like this system at all. And > > the probe just isn't working. I calibrate the probe as per > directions, > > using some kind of calibration liquid that came with it, but each > day > > the probe needs to be re-calibrated and is WAY off, like > sometimes up > > to .7. > > > > Does anyone know of a better/easier way to test pH? > > > > I do need to monitor my pH because I have planted tanks with > injected > > CO2 and the pH can fluctuate. Also, my tap water pH fluctuates. > All of > > which means I do a lot of testing, and need some way to test that > > won't be so cumbersome and frustrating. > > > > Thank you, > > > > Lainey > > http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] ------------------------------------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the home page. Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com to receive the digest, which includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com for the No E-Mail option where you will still be able to read messages on the group and post replies. Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com to receive individual e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 44262	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 11/7/2009
Subject: Re: pH testers

That sounds about right, Lainey. To truly match colors, beyond the human's ability to perceive differences, you need a machine <g>. I used to work with colors a lot, and it can be pretty exacting to get the exact color needed. Well, "exacting" is a polite way of saying it <g>. Using the test kits and the color comparators that come with them is not exacting, but most people can come close, which is normally good enough. \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Lainey Alexander Sent: Saturday, November 07, 2009 3:58 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] pH testers I don't have any issues with seeing color, and I have asked several people to look at the color charts and everyone sees a different color! Lainey http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com On Nov 7, 2009, at 3:30 PM, Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > To elaborate on my earlier post and this one from \\Steve//, the > experts say > that as many as 25% of adults suffer from some type of color- > blindness. > Here are some free online tests to find out if you do have any type of > color-blindness which can make reading the color charts more > difficult. > > Simple - http://www.toledo-bend.com/colorblind/Ishihara.asp > > A little better - http://colorvisiontesting.com/online%20test.htm > > A BIG TIME test - http://www.xrite.com/worldwide.aspx (click on your > region/language) Here is the one for the US/English... > http://www.xrite.com/custom_page.aspx?PageID=77 > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the > right > side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, > Month) > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On > Behalf Of Steve Szabo > Sent: Saturday, November 07, 2009 12:26 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] pH testers > > Lainey, > > Those methods are the two best methods for measuring pH. > > The probes are relatively sensitive, and do need to be recalibrated > before > each use. They should actually be calibrated with 3 different > solutions, one > a pH 4.0, one at pH 7.0, and one at, I believe, pH 10.0, The probes > to need > to be replaced after a period of time when they no longer > calibrate. What > the period of time is depends on the quality of the probe itself > (the part > you put into the water) and the water being tested. > > A good test kit can give you very accurate readings. Do you have a > problem > distinguishing colors other than with the test kits? If so, this > can be a > problem. If you do not, you may need to change your kit to one that I > recommend. It is Kordon's AquaTru. They are not inexpensive, like > the API > kits are. They will cost you some real money. They have the colors, > also, > but the colors are easier to read, since they are part of the vial, > and you > have your test water and clear(?) water to read the colors through. > One of > the problems people face is that, though they think so, their water > is not > really colorless, and it can affect the colors they see from the test > sample, making it hard, sometimes, to distinguish the proper color. > The > Kordon kits take this part out of the equation. However, it may not > help if > you normally have problems distinguishing variations of color. > > To help with the proper leveling of water, you may want to pick up > a supply > of those plastic droppers that were talked about the other day (I > know, they > called them pipettes with a bulb on the end, but to normal people, > they are > droppers). You can just fill the vials up with water, and then use the > dropper to take out what is not needed, or fill the vial using the > droppers, > or some variation of these methods, whatever works best for you. > > FWIW, I tried the probe many years ago, shortly after they became > available > in the hobby, and was not pleased with them. Too time consuming to > calibrate, needed to calibrate too often, and the probes did not > last very > long. The replacement probes were also expensive. Today, the cost > structure > may be different, but calibration issues seem to remain. I've stuck > with the > Kordon kits. > > \\Steve// > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On > Behalf Of Lainey Alexander > Sent: Saturday, November 07, 2009 10:57 AM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Subject: [AquaticLife] pH testers > > I have the pH test kits that you run via a vial by adding drops and > I have a > much more expensive probe by Milwaukee and I am not happy with > either. The > vials drive me crazy because they take too long to set up with > getting the > water to the right level, adding the drops, washing out the vial > etc. plus I > can never really tell what the reading is by comparing to the color > charts, > I don't like this system at all. And the probe just isn't working. I > calibrate the probe as per directions, using some kind of > calibration liquid > that came with it, but each day the probe needs to be re-calibrated > and is > WAY off, like sometimes up to .7. > > Does anyone know of a better/easier way to test pH? > > I do need to monitor my pH because I have planted tanks with injected > CO2 and the pH can fluctuate. Also, my tap water pH fluctuates. All > of which > means I do a lot of testing, and need some way to test that won't > be so > cumbersome and frustrating. > > Thank you, > > Lainey > http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 44263	From: Lainey Alexander	Date: 11/7/2009
Subject: Re: pH testers

I agree this may be my next play. I'm not giving up and not willing to let water dictate what I can do therefore I have to do some fancy footwork. Enormous barrels of water in the basement sounds just like something I would do next:) Lainey http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com On Nov 7, 2009, at 5:13 PM, Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > Maybe you'll have to get one or two 50G plastic drums (Walmart > sells them) > and start storing your tap water in them so that you will be able > to have a > more consistent water supply for your fish. Due to your incoming water > issues, having a holding tank where you would have water from several > different days to fill them so they will average out and then each > time you > do a PWC, refill the drums and this should keep them averaged out > all the > time in the long term. No other easy or low-cost solution is > jumping out at > me right now. With this, at least you can just use the pH probe on the > drums from time to time to make sure they are staying in the > average range > or not rising or falling too quickly, which they shouldn't since > you will > filling them the first time with 10 gallons of water each day so > they'll > each have a five day average of incoming water.... or give up on fish > keeping or let nature takes it course and only keep fish or plants > that can > tolerate your broadly changing water parameters. There are some > that will. > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the > right > side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, > Month) > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On > Behalf Of Lainey Alexander > Sent: Saturday, November 07, 2009 3:48 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] pH testers > > I have to laugh because I am one step ahead of you on all of these > ideas, > have tried all of this:) I do have the high range pH and I have > checked my > equipment on the well water. I think what is happening is that the > water > comes in from the well and goes through three filters, and the filters > recharge at different points, and there must be pH swings when the > equipment > is cycling. Ugh. > > Lainey > http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com > > On Nov 7, 2009, at 4:26 PM, Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > > > Well, if everyone is seeing different colors, it certainly sounds > like > > an acid problem... LSD flashbacks or have all your friends been > > licking them hallucinogenic toads lately? LOL > > > > But now being serious again... take the three free tests to make > sure > > you do not suffer any color-blindness and if your friends are seeing > > different colors, then have them take the tests also so you'll know > > who you can trust in the future for second opinions on color. I know > > that I do have some color-blindness but at least I know which > colors I > > do not see as well so I can compensate accordingly. > > > > Once again, complete accuracy is not needed but you should be > able to > > tell the difference between 7.4 and 8.4 as there are major > > differences. > > BTW, you > > mentioned "7.4 and 8.5" but the API cards go up only by even numbers > > on the pH test cards. Even with 7.4 to 7.8, there is a major > > difference in color on the API High Range pH test card but on the > low > > range card, the colors are much closer for that range. Are you using > > the two different test kits... > > one for Low pH range and one for High pH range? Are you possibly > > comingling the directions? The Low pH range bottle (actually just > > called pH Indicator Solution on my API kit, only uses 3 drops where > > the High range pH Indicator Solution uses 5 drops. Just trying to > > eliminate any possibility of human error. > > > > If I remember right now, after reading more of your recent posts, > you > > have well water that is pretty funky and you have it running > through a > > couple of filters/softeners first.... right? If yes, check your > > filters to make sure they are working properly. > > > > Also, when your tap water comes out one day at 7.4 and another > day at > > 8.4, run 48 hour baselines on each of them to see where they end up. > > Just because you've done this in the past and they stayed the same > > does NOT mean that it will stay the same this time. > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles > > referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, > alphabetically > > under Labels and also under Archives by Year, > > Month) > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Lainey Alexander > > Sent: Saturday, November 07, 2009 2:58 PM > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] pH testers > > > > I don't have any issues with seeing color, and I have asked several > > people to look at the color charts and everyone sees a different > > color! > > > > Lainey > > http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com > > > > On Nov 7, 2009, at 3:30 PM, Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > > > > > To elaborate on my earlier post and this one from \\Steve//, the > > > experts say that as many as 25% of adults suffer from some type of > > > color- blindness. > > > Here are some free online tests to find out if you do have any > > type of > > > color-blindness which can make reading the color charts more > > > difficult. > > > > > > Simple - http://www.toledo-bend.com/colorblind/Ishihara.asp > > > > > > A little better - http://colorvisiontesting.com/online%20test.htm > > > > > > A BIG TIME test - http://www.xrite.com/worldwide.aspx (click on > your > > > region/language) Here is the one for the US/English... > > > http://www.xrite.com/custom_page.aspx?PageID=77 > > > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles > > > referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, > > alphabetically > > > under Labels and also under Archives by Year, > > > Month) > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Steve Szabo > > > Sent: Saturday, November 07, 2009 12:26 PM > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] pH testers > > > > > > Lainey, > > > > > > Those methods are the two best methods for measuring pH. > > > > > > The probes are relatively sensitive, and do need to be > recalibrated > > > before each use. They should actually be calibrated with 3 > different > > > solutions, one a pH 4.0, one at pH 7.0, and one at, I believe, pH > > > 10.0, The probes to need to be replaced after a period of time > when > > > they no longer calibrate. What the period of time is depends on > the > > > quality of the probe itself (the part you put into the water) and > > the > > > water being tested. > > > > > > A good test kit can give you very accurate readings. Do you have a > > > problem distinguishing colors other than with the test kits? If > so, > > > this can be a problem. If you do not, you may need to change your > > kit > > > to one that I recommend. It is Kordon's AquaTru. They are not > > > inexpensive, like the API kits are. They will cost you some real > > > money. They have the colors, also, but the colors are easier to > > read, > > > since they are part of the vial, and you have your test water and > > > clear(?) water to read the colors through. > > > One of > > > the problems people face is that, though they think so, their > > water is > > > not really colorless, and it can affect the colors they see > from the > > > test sample, making it hard, sometimes, to distinguish the proper > > > color. > > > The > > > Kordon kits take this part out of the equation. However, it may > not > > > help if you normally have problems distinguishing variations of > > color. > > > > > > To help with the proper leveling of water, you may want to pick > up a > > > supply of those plastic droppers that were talked about the other > > day > > > (I know, they called them pipettes with a bulb on the end, but to > > > normal people, they are droppers). You can just fill the vials up > > with > > > water, and then use the dropper to take out what is not needed, or > > > fill the vial using the droppers, or some variation of these > > methods, > > > whatever works best for you. > > > > > > FWIW, I tried the probe many years ago, shortly after they became > > > available in the hobby, and was not pleased with them. Too time > > > consuming to calibrate, needed to calibrate too often, and the > > probes > > > did not last very long. The replacement probes were also > expensive. > > > Today, the cost structure may be different, but calibration issues > > > seem to remain. I've stuck with the Kordon kits. > > > > > > \\Steve// > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Lainey Alexander > > > Sent: Saturday, November 07, 2009 10:57 AM > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > > Subject: [AquaticLife] pH testers > > > > > > I have the pH test kits that you run via a vial by adding drops > > and I > > > have a much more expensive probe by Milwaukee and I am not happy > > with > > > either. The vials drive me crazy because they take too long to > > set up > > > with getting the water to the right level, adding the drops, > washing > > > out the vial etc. plus I can never really tell what the reading > > is by > > > comparing to the color charts, I don't like this system at all. > And > > > the probe just isn't working. I calibrate the probe as per > > directions, > > > using some kind of calibration liquid that came with it, but each > > day > > > the probe needs to be re-calibrated and is WAY off, like > > sometimes up > > > to .7. > > > > > > Does anyone know of a better/easier way to test pH? > > > > > > I do need to monitor my pH because I have planted tanks with > > injected > > > CO2 and the pH can fluctuate. Also, my tap water pH fluctuates. > > All of > > > which means I do a lot of testing, and need some way to test that > > > won't be so cumbersome and frustrating. > > > > > > Thank you, > > > > > > Lainey > > > http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > ------------------------------------ > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, > Thank You. > ���`�.��.><((((�>.���`�.��.���`�.�><((((�> �.���`�.�. , .���`�..>< > ((((�> > PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT > important to > the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY > the SUBJECT > LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- > <�((((><.���`�.��.���`�.�<�((((><�.���`�.�. , .���`�..<�((((><� > ��`�.��. > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. > > If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of > unsubscribing, you > can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My Membership" > on the > home page. > > Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com to receive the digest, > which > includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email > > Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com for the No E-Mail > option where > you will still be able to read messages on the group and post replies. > > Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com to receive individual > e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 44264	From: Lainey Alexander	Date: 11/7/2009
Subject: Re: pH testers

No it is right from the tap, and it is a well. But as I said, I have three filters on it to take out various odors and colors and flavors that don't agree with humans. It's safe, just not attractive or pleasant to drink or bathe in, thus the filters. But the time it comes out of the tap, a lot has been removed. Lainey http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com On Nov 7, 2009, at 3:43 PM, Steve Szabo wrote: > Are you getting this wide swing with the pH right out of your tap? > I don't > recall if you are on town water or have your own well, though I do > seem to > remember something about a water softener being in use. If it is > not well > water, you may want to check with your water people about the pH > swings you > are seeing, something is not right. > > \\Steve// > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On > Behalf Of Lainey Alexander > Sent: Saturday, November 07, 2009 3:01 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] pH testers > > and, to add, I have tried RO plus RO right, and that seems to have > issues of its own too. With that method, I can't get the pH over 6 > without using some kind of pH adjuster chemicals, and then it gets > into constant fussing and monitoring and adding and water changes - I > think I'll end up crazier working with that than fixing my tap > somehow. > > Lainey > http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com > > On Nov 7, 2009, at 2:54 PM, Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > > > I'm not so sure you need to be worrying about your pH as much as > > you may be. > > pH changes caused by CO2 are NOT the same as pH changes caused by > > other > > water chemistry factors. What you should be monitoring is your CO2 > > output > > to make sure you are not wasting CO2. Do you monitor your CO2 > levels? > > > > While the pH may rise and fall based on the CO2 level in the tank, > > the GH > > and KH should remain relatively constant and because these are > > constant, the > > fish are not affected. For reasons not known to me, pH fluctuations > > caused > > by *normal* rising and falling CO2 levels in natural waters DO NOT > > cause > > problems to fish like pH fluctuations caused by other water > parameter > > changes... too much carbonic acid and/or other acids released by > > decaying > > detritus/mulm, low KH levels, etc. This is probably part of God's > plan > > since He knew that the CO2 levels would rise at night when plants > > were not > > taking in CO2 and then fall during the day when the plants start > > sucking in > > the CO2 via photosynthesis. > > > > You should make sure your CO2 is regulated properly and then start > > testing > > your pH at a consistent time each day so you can then see a pattern > > develop. > > For example, if you keep the CO2 levels consistent, 24 hours a day, > > your pH > > will be much lower first thing in the morning, before you turn on > your > > lights and then by the end of the day, after the plants have been > > sucking up > > CO2 all day, the pH level will be higher. BUT... during this entire > > fluctuation, the GH and KH should have remained relatively > unchanged, > > although they will both go down over time without proper tank > > maintenance. > > If any of these three should crash, that would cause osmoregulatory > > shock > > issues to your fish. > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > > (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the > > right > > side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, > > Month) > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On > > Behalf Of Lainey Alexander > > Sent: Saturday, November 07, 2009 9:57 AM > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > Subject: [AquaticLife] pH testers > > > > I have the pH test kits that you run via a vial by adding drops and > > I have a > > much more expensive probe by Milwaukee and I am not happy with > > either. The > > vials drive me crazy because they take too long to set up with > > getting the > > water to the right level, adding the drops, washing out the vial > > etc. plus I > > can never really tell what the reading is by comparing to the color > > charts, > > I don't like this system at all. And the probe just isn't working. I > > calibrate the probe as per directions, using some kind of > > calibration liquid > > that came with it, but each day the probe needs to be re-calibrated > > and is > > WAY off, like sometimes up to .7. > > > > Does anyone know of a better/easier way to test pH? > > > > I do need to monitor my pH because I have planted tanks with > injected > > CO2 and the pH can fluctuate. Also, my tap water pH fluctuates. All > > of which > > means I do a lot of testing, and need some way to test that won't > > be so > > cumbersome and frustrating. > > > > Thank you, > > > > Lainey > > http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 44265	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 11/7/2009
Subject: Re: pH testers

Lainey, That Berkshire water is pretty strange then. Normally an aquifer is pretty stable in pH and minerals it contains. When I was on well water (also in MA) the pH was pretty stable, not varying more than =/- 0.1. My water company water, that I have to have now, varies more than that, since they use several water sources depending on various factors. The types of water they use are reservoir water, well water, and water from the Potomac River. I am sure it fluctuates more than I see, because it gets treated and they probably try to maintain a sane pH level for the sake of their pipes. Do you have a deep well, or a shallow well? This may be a factor in your pH readings showing what they do. You might want to do some poking around to see what you may find about your local water. Check to see if you can find any information about your aquifer, check with the guys who drill the wells, check with local water testing outfits. All may have some information that may be of some help. Also cruise the web sites of towns near you that provide water for their residents (probably Pittsfield, Lee, maybe Stockbridge, and a few others). You mentioned earlier the use of RO chemicals with your water. Are you using RO at all?, What are you taking out of the water by your filters? What is the pH when the process is done? Perhaps change to a different type of filter may help control the pH problem (he says, shooting in the dark). \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Lainey Alexander Sent: Saturday, November 07, 2009 4:00 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] pH testers It's a well and the pH I am testing as it comes out of the tap but then also over the next two days and it stays where it comes out of the tap. Problem is, it is anywhere from 7.4 to 8.5 when it comes out of the tap. That's why I can never get a system going, because my levels are all over the place. Then add in the CO2 and it gets even more confusing. Lainey http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com On Nov 7, 2009, at 3:50 PM, Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > OK. Lets back up to your tap water. What do you mean by it > "fluctuates"? > Is this based on the right out the tap versus the 48 hour baseline > or what? > > Maybe you should start a couple of 48 hour baseline tests, one > today, one on > Sunday and one on Monday and monitor them and their final results > on Monday, > Tuesday and Wednesday and let us know the beginning and end numbers > for each > day. > > Remind us about your water supply again. Public utility (and where > do they > get their water), well water, reservoir, etc.? > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the > right > side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, > Month) > > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On > Behalf Of Lainey Alexander > Sent: Saturday, November 07, 2009 1:58 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] pH testers > > Hi Lenny - > > I understand what you are saying about CO2 causing OK pH swings, > but the > main problem I am having now is that my tap water apparently > fluctuates > between 7.4 and 8.5! I finally figured this out in the past few > days. This > is one reason I am being driven insane by my pH issues. > > I'll work it out, somehow, but for now I think I do need to monitor > my tap > water and its effects in the tanks. > > Thanks, > > Lainey > http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com > > On Nov 7, 2009, at 2:54 PM, Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > > > I'm not so sure you need to be worrying about your pH as much as you > > may be. > > pH changes caused by CO2 are NOT the same as pH changes caused by > > other water chemistry factors. What you should be monitoring is your > > CO2 output to make sure you are not wasting CO2. Do you monitor your > > CO2 levels? > > > > While the pH may rise and fall based on the CO2 level in the > tank, the > > GH and KH should remain relatively constant and because these are > > constant, the fish are not affected. For reasons not known to me, pH > > fluctuations caused by *normal* rising and falling CO2 levels in > > natural waters DO NOT cause problems to fish like pH fluctuations > > caused by other water parameter changes... too much carbonic acid > > and/or other acids released by decaying detritus/mulm, low KH > levels, > > etc. This is probably part of God's plan since He knew that the CO2 > > levels would rise at night when plants were not taking in CO2 and > then > > fall during the day when the plants start sucking in the CO2 via > > photosynthesis. > > > > You should make sure your CO2 is regulated properly and then start > > testing your pH at a consistent time each day so you can then see a > > pattern develop. > > For example, if you keep the CO2 levels consistent, 24 hours a day, > > your pH will be much lower first thing in the morning, before you > turn > > on your lights and then by the end of the day, after the plants have > > been sucking up > > CO2 all day, the pH level will be higher. BUT... during this entire > > fluctuation, the GH and KH should have remained relatively > unchanged, > > although they will both go down over time without proper tank > > maintenance. > > If any of these three should crash, that would cause osmoregulatory > > shock issues to your fish. > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles > > referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, > alphabetically > > under Labels and also under Archives by Year, > > Month) > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Lainey Alexander > > Sent: Saturday, November 07, 2009 9:57 AM > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > Subject: [AquaticLife] pH testers > > > > I have the pH test kits that you run via a vial by adding drops > and I > > have a much more expensive probe by Milwaukee and I am not happy > with > > either. The vials drive me crazy because they take too long to > set up > > with getting the water to the right level, adding the drops, washing > > out the vial etc. plus I can never really tell what the reading > is by > > comparing to the color charts, I don't like this system at all. And > > the probe just isn't working. I calibrate the probe as per > directions, > > using some kind of calibration liquid that came with it, but each > day > > the probe needs to be re-calibrated and is WAY off, like > sometimes up > > to .7. > > > > Does anyone know of a better/easier way to test pH? > > > > I do need to monitor my pH because I have planted tanks with > injected > > CO2 and the pH can fluctuate. Also, my tap water pH fluctuates. > All of > > which means I do a lot of testing, and need some way to test that > > won't be so cumbersome and frustrating. > > > > Thank you, > > > > Lainey > > http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com > > > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 44266	From: Lainey Alexander	Date: 11/7/2009
Subject: Re: pH testers

I think the pH from the well is stable. It's all the filters that are messing up the pH. I think the main issue is the water softener. The pH seems to fluctuate a lot before and after the softener regenerates. Last night, right before the softener regenerated, the pH at the tap was 7.4. This morning, after regeneration was finished, I got 8.1. Go figure! I have tried many times to "get off" the softener and have concluded that with my water, it can't be done. I actually purchase Berkshire Mountain Spring water for human drinking, but feel that this is too expensive and cumbersome for the fish, poor things. Anyway, I will figure this out one way or another and appreciate all the input. Thanks again, Lainey http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com On Nov 7, 2009, at 5:31 PM, Steve Szabo wrote: > Lainey, > > That Berkshire water is pretty strange then. Normally an aquifer is > pretty > stable in pH and minerals it contains. When I was on well water > (also in MA) > the pH was pretty stable, not varying more than =/- 0.1. My water > company > water, that I have to have now, varies more than that, since they use > several water sources depending on various factors. The types of > water they > use are reservoir water, well water, and water from the Potomac > River. I am > sure it fluctuates more than I see, because it gets treated and they > probably try to maintain a sane pH level for the sake of their pipes. > > Do you have a deep well, or a shallow well? This may be a factor in > your pH > readings showing what they do. You might want to do some poking > around to > see what you may find about your local water. Check to see if you > can find > any information about your aquifer, check with the guys who drill > the wells, > check with local water testing outfits. All may have some > information that > may be of some help. Also cruise the web sites of towns near you that > provide water for their residents (probably Pittsfield, Lee, maybe > Stockbridge, and a few others). > > You mentioned earlier the use of RO chemicals with your water. Are > you using > RO at all?, What are you taking out of the water by your filters? > What is > the pH when the process is done? Perhaps change to a different type of > filter may help control the pH problem (he says, shooting in the > dark). > > \\Steve// > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On > Behalf Of Lainey Alexander > Sent: Saturday, November 07, 2009 4:00 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] pH testers > > It's a well and the pH I am testing as it comes out of the tap but > then also over the next two days and it stays where it comes out of > the tap. Problem is, it is anywhere from 7.4 to 8.5 when it comes out > of the tap. That's why I can never get a system going, because my > levels are all over the place. Then add in the CO2 and it gets even > more confusing. > > Lainey > http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com > > On Nov 7, 2009, at 3:50 PM, Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > > > OK. Lets back up to your tap water. What do you mean by it > > "fluctuates"? > > Is this based on the right out the tap versus the 48 hour baseline > > or what? > > > > Maybe you should start a couple of 48 hour baseline tests, one > > today, one on > > Sunday and one on Monday and monitor them and their final results > > on Monday, > > Tuesday and Wednesday and let us know the beginning and end numbers > > for each > > day. > > > > Remind us about your water supply again. Public utility (and where > > do they > > get their water), well water, reservoir, etc.? > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > > (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the > > right > > side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, > > Month) > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On > > Behalf Of Lainey Alexander > > Sent: Saturday, November 07, 2009 1:58 PM > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] pH testers > > > > Hi Lenny - > > > > I understand what you are saying about CO2 causing OK pH swings, > > but the > > main problem I am having now is that my tap water apparently > > fluctuates > > between 7.4 and 8.5! I finally figured this out in the past few > > days. This > > is one reason I am being driven insane by my pH issues. > > > > I'll work it out, somehow, but for now I think I do need to monitor > > my tap > > water and its effects in the tanks. > > > > Thanks, > > > > Lainey > > http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com > > > > On Nov 7, 2009, at 2:54 PM, Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > > > > > I'm not so sure you need to be worrying about your pH as much > as you > > > may be. > > > pH changes caused by CO2 are NOT the same as pH changes caused by > > > other water chemistry factors. What you should be monitoring is > your > > > CO2 output to make sure you are not wasting CO2. Do you monitor > your > > > CO2 levels? > > > > > > While the pH may rise and fall based on the CO2 level in the > > tank, the > > > GH and KH should remain relatively constant and because these are > > > constant, the fish are not affected. For reasons not known to > me, pH > > > fluctuations caused by *normal* rising and falling CO2 levels in > > > natural waters DO NOT cause problems to fish like pH fluctuations > > > caused by other water parameter changes... too much carbonic acid > > > and/or other acids released by decaying detritus/mulm, low KH > > levels, > > > etc. This is probably part of God's plan since He knew that the > CO2 > > > levels would rise at night when plants were not taking in CO2 and > > then > > > fall during the day when the plants start sucking in the CO2 via > > > photosynthesis. > > > > > > You should make sure your CO2 is regulated properly and then start > > > testing your pH at a consistent time each day so you can then > see a > > > pattern develop. > > > For example, if you keep the CO2 levels consistent, 24 hours a > day, > > > your pH will be much lower first thing in the morning, before you > > turn > > > on your lights and then by the end of the day, after the plants > have > > > been sucking up > > > CO2 all day, the pH level will be higher. BUT... during this > entire > > > fluctuation, the GH and KH should have remained relatively > > unchanged, > > > although they will both go down over time without proper tank > > > maintenance. > > > If any of these three should crash, that would cause > osmoregulatory > > > shock issues to your fish. > > > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles > > > referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, > > alphabetically > > > under Labels and also under Archives by Year, > > > Month) > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Lainey Alexander > > > Sent: Saturday, November 07, 2009 9:57 AM > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > > Subject: [AquaticLife] pH testers > > > > > > I have the pH test kits that you run via a vial by adding drops > > and I > > > have a much more expensive probe by Milwaukee and I am not happy > > with > > > either. The vials drive me crazy because they take too long to > > set up > > > with getting the water to the right level, adding the drops, > washing > > > out the vial etc. plus I can never really tell what the reading > > is by > > > comparing to the color charts, I don't like this system at all. > And > > > the probe just isn't working. I calibrate the probe as per > > directions, > > > using some kind of calibration liquid that came with it, but each > > day > > > the probe needs to be re-calibrated and is WAY off, like > > sometimes up > > > to .7. > > > > > > Does anyone know of a better/easier way to test pH? > > > > > > I do need to monitor my pH because I have planted tanks with > > injected > > > CO2 and the pH can fluctuate. Also, my tap water pH fluctuates. > > All of > > > which means I do a lot of testing, and need some way to test that > > > won't be so cumbersome and frustrating. > > > > > > Thank you, > > > > > > Lainey > > > http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com > > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 44267	From: kuradi8	Date: 11/7/2009
Subject: Re: Algae/Betta Bowl

When water flows in the wild, unless it's freshly fallen rain, it's not really "new" water so comparing it to a home PWC doesn't really apply. In the wild, it's more of the same coming from elsewhere -- and it's not necessarily better/cleaner. In our care, out with the bad, in with potable water from our tap. It's not just clean vs dirty. it's two different waters -- cycled and not. My questions about algae were answered. No, snails will not eat enough of it to keep it under control -- especially not in high light conditions like Kala's bowl. Scrape and remove. More aggressive tank maintenance than in lower light. No short-cuts. As for size: http://pets.groups.yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife/message/44228 ~Kai --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@...> wrote: > > Well, it's not how small *I* think the bowl is, although it would be better > if folks gave an actual size of the bowl... just like with a tank. > > Doing 10% or 25% PWC's every day on any fish tank/bowl will not cause > cycling issues. All it will do is remove some of the dirty water and > replace it with clean water. Fish that live in streams and rivers get new > water constantly. Fish in lakes or bays get new water as the rivers flow > into them or tides bring in new waters. When we keep our fish in our > tanks/bowls or whatever and keep them in the same water for days or weeks or > months at a time, we are NOT doing it the way things are done in nature. In > filtered tanks, doing a weekly PWC is OK as long as the bioload isn't too > heavy. In an unfiltered Betta bowl, doing more frequent PWC's is > recommended, especially since these fish are mostly carnivores and their > protein rich foods cause water quality issues much faster. > > Yes, wild Bettas are often found in rice paddies and stagnant type water > conditions which is why they've developed a labyrinth organ over > thousands/millions of years (or God just created them that way to start > with) but even in those waters, they have more than a gallon or two of water > per fish. Each fish probably has 10's of gallons of water (because of their > aggressiveness to each other) and the water is heavily planted and gets lots > of rain fall or other water influx to keep the rice paddies water logged. > The labyrinth comes into play when there waters start to dry up or get too > stagnant and they are forced to breathe surface air to survive until the > next rainfall or other influx of water. > > Here's a snip from... > http://animaldiversity.ummz.umich.edu/site/accounts/information/Betta_splend > ens.html which is actually a pretty good profile on Betta Splendens (common > Bettas) and I might have to look around this University of Michigan site for > more good profiles (although my dad might be frowning down on me since he > went to Ohio State... Geaux Buckeyes... as long as they're not playing my > LSU Tigers!) > (START SNIP) > During the dry season, most Bettas are able to bury themselves in the bottom > of their dried up habitat. There, they can live in moist cavities until > water once again fills the depression during a rainy period. The fish can > survive even if thick, clay mud is all that is left of the water. They do > not survive total drying out of the bottom. (Vierke 1988) > (END SNIP) > > Also see my earlier post about other solutions to the algae problem. > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right > side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) > > > -----Original Message----- > > I think we're (quote-unquote) "arguing" over wording. Just how small do you > think the bowl is? > > The problem is the amount of bright light the bowl is exposed to throughout > the day. It's under her table/reading lamp. Mom spends her days reading > and watching Kala. And therefore the algae blooms. > > Yes, that means keeping an eye on it and a more frequent maintenance > schedule. Harry's suggestion of every day seems too often and will cause > the water to cycle continuously instead of stabilize. Remember that wild > Bettas live in very murky rice paddies. Algae is not as objectionable to > them as it is to us. > ~Kai > > > > > Lenny V. wrote: > > > > UH OH... I see a can of worms... and I've got my can opener ready! > > LOL > > > > Yes, they "CAN" live in a bowl but that doesn't mean they should live > > in a bowl. This would be analogous to saying a family of four "CAN" > > live in an 8' x 8' room with a hole in the ground for a toilet... but > > that doesn't mean they *should* live in that type of home. It also > > doesn't mean that the government should create another government > > program to give larger homes to people that can't afford them out of > > their own income. LOL > > > > Doing a 25% PWC every day and using a small algae scrubber on the > > inside of the glass and then siphoning the gravel at least once a week > > or more, as needed, will go a long way to improving the water quality > > and thus lessening the algae growth. > > > > Also see my other reply before this one. > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles > > referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically > > under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) > > > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > > Because Bettas are surface breathers, they CAN live in bowls. (Bowls > > meaning they don't need aeration.) The one he's in isn't "small" but > > I'm on the lookout for a larger one or small tank, preferably at a > > Salvation Army price. > > > > Cleaning the bowl every day would mean too much of a water change and > > that would screw up his little ecosystem, having the water cycling all the > time. > > ~Kai > > > > > > > > > > --- Harry wrote: > > > > > > Clean the bowl every day and explain to Momma fish don't belong in > bowls. > > A small tank is cheap at Walmart. > > > Harry > > > > > > --- On Sat, 11/7/09, Dora Smith <tiggernut24@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > Sounds like someone has to go over to Momma's house every once > > > in a > > while and clean the bowl. > > > > > > Yours, > > > > > > Dora Smith > > > > > > Austin, TX > > > > > > tiggernut24@ yahoo.com > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > > > > > > > I got Mom a Betta a month or two back and his bowl is under the big > > > table > > > > > > lamp that she uses to read -- all day. So no wonder his bowl gets > > > bright > > > > > > green with algae growth. The answer is to move his bowl but no, > > > it's the > > > > > > most convenient place and she likes having him there. > > > > > > > > > > > > I mentioned getting a snail but someone replied that Mystery Snails > > > don't > > > > > > eat algae -- they eat the food that falls to the bottom. But other > > > posts > > > > > > say they DO eat algae. > > > > > > > > > > > > So which is it? And will s/he eat enough of it to keep Kala's algae > > > problem > > > > > > kinda-sorta under control? > > > > > > > > > > > > It's not easy being greeeeeeeen. .. > > > > > > ~Kai > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 44268	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 11/7/2009
Subject: Re: Are micro bubbles bad for a freshwater aquarium?

Filters pour water into a tank do not create much, if anything, in the way of micro-bubbles, nor do air diffusers. Micro-bubbles are small, almost invisible to the naked eye, bubbles, and some may even not be seen. Micro-bubbles in refugariums may have two causes. One is the biological processes carried on in the refugarium by bacteria and plants. The other is a result of foam fractionation, where very fine bubbles are used to remove DOC's from the water. They can and do dissipate over time. What is your concern over micro-bubbles? Is this another myth in development, or is there some real concern over a specific harm they can do? The reason I ask is that micro-bubbles have been present in our tanks, especially in marine tanks because salt water is more conducive to them than fresh, for a very long time, and I have seen nothing to indicate a problem with them and the only concern has been their presence in large quantities not making for a poor viewing experience. \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Miquela Sent: Saturday, November 07, 2009 4:42 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Are micro bubbles bad for a freshwater aquarium? I have been reading about Refugiums and that they have some sort of object to remove micro bubbles. Why do we use on the side filters that pour water back in creating micro bubbles or why do we use air defusers? I'm very confused by this. To have micro bubbles that is the question.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 44269	From: Deenerz@aol.com	Date: 11/7/2009
Subject: Re: stuck thermometer?

When I go thermometer shopping I grab about 10 of them off the display and lay them out side by side. You can usually see the one or two in the bunch that read incorrectly or are broken. But like Steve mentioned a room or area with a known temperature. I often will put a new thermometer in a tank that already has a thermometer to see how close they read to each other. -Mike -----Original Message----- From: Steve Szabo <steve@...> To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Sat, Nov 7, 2009 6:10 am Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] stuck thermometer? Erika, All thermometers are relatively accurate, but that does not preclude an incident from occurring that may make the thermometer less accurate than it had been, as happened to you. If you are worried about the relative accuracy of your thermometer(s), you can place it in an area of known temperature for about an hour, then take a reading. However, if the reading is accurate, be aware that it is accurate at that temperature only. However, you can reasonably conclude that the thermometer will be relatively accurate throughout its range. To paraphrase an old saying, "Man who has one thermometer knows what temperature it is, many who has many does not." \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of erikaandnewton Sent: Saturday, November 07, 2009 7:38 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] stuck thermometer? so i had an impulse buy of some newts, forgetting they like cooler temperatures than my frogs. i set up a tank for them, put in a heater just to keep it from getting below 68, dropped in the thermometer i had been using in the frog tank (which had shown me varying temps as should be expected) and went about my chores. a few hours later i checked on the tank, the thermometer read 80 degrees. stuck my finger in and thought "odd, doesn't even feel as warm as the frog tank", unplugged the heater and left the lid open. a few hours later, still read at 80 degrees. so, took the brand new thermometer out of the frog tank and put it in the newt tank. a nice cool 68ish degrees. i stuck the old thermometer in the fridge and checked on it this morning. whatdya know my fridge is 80 degrees. so now im paranoid that a regular ordinary thermometer can malfunction. something i never thought could occur. my question is, what kind of thermometer do i have to buy to make sure i'm getting an accurate reading? erika newark de usa

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 44270	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 11/7/2009
Subject: Re: Algae/Betta Bowl

I'm still not sure what you mean by "cycled" water? As far as the "cycle" that we commonly refer to in fish keeping, that is the nitrogen cycle and the various nitrifying bacteria (nitrosomonas, nitrospira and nitrosospira) that facilitate the nitrogen cycle are NOT water column bacteria but instead live on surface areas of our filter systems, gravel and every other surface area (plants, decorations, etc.). Now, if you are talking about allowing the tap water to stabilize for a day or two (allowing it to outgas and ingas and for the temperature to equalize with air in your home), that is certainly OK to do and I use to do this with a gallon jug of water for my Betta (1.5G wide vase). I would fill up the gallon jug and leave it uncapped and then use it every other day to do a PWC in the Betta's vase until I moved him to a 10G tank where I only did a 25% PWC once a week or so after that move. I would just move the vase into my sink, slowly pour the gallon of water into one side of the vase allowing it to overflow, then I'd dip a cup or two out to lower the water level and return the vase to the holding pan on counter top. Refill the gallon jug and repeat again in two days. In closing and reviewing the above, I am reminded, that when you first start to get more aggressive on cleaning the glass, only do about 1/4th at a time so that the nitrifying bacteria can colonize more heavily on other areas (gravel, plant, decoration, etc.) and/or re-colonize on the cleaned area. Scraping all the algae at once can cause water quality issues since the algae is growing for a reason... possibly too much lighting but it also needs nutrients to feed it, so if you remove all the algae at once, then the nitrates might climb higher, faster than when the algae was eating them. Of course, doing more frequent PWC's after scraping all the algae will keep the nitrate level down and any possible ammonia (which the algae would have been eating) until the nitrifying bacteria can re-grow sufficient colonies. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of kuradi8 Sent: Saturday, November 07, 2009 4:43 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Algae/Betta Bowl When water flows in the wild, unless it's freshly fallen rain, it's not really "new" water so comparing it to a home PWC doesn't really apply. In the wild, it's more of the same coming from elsewhere -- and it's not necessarily better/cleaner. In our care, out with the bad, in with potable water from our tap. It's not just clean vs dirty. it's two different waters -- cycled and not. My questions about algae were answered. No, snails will not eat enough of it to keep it under control -- especially not in high light conditions like Kala's bowl. Scrape and remove. More aggressive tank maintenance than in lower light. No short-cuts. As for size: http://pets.groups.yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife/message/44228 ~Kai --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@...> wrote: > > Well, it's not how small *I* think the bowl is, although it would be > better if folks gave an actual size of the bowl... just like with a tank. > > Doing 10% or 25% PWC's every day on any fish tank/bowl will not cause > cycling issues. All it will do is remove some of the dirty water and > replace it with clean water. Fish that live in streams and rivers get > new water constantly. Fish in lakes or bays get new water as the > rivers flow into them or tides bring in new waters. When we keep our > fish in our tanks/bowls or whatever and keep them in the same water > for days or weeks or months at a time, we are NOT doing it the way > things are done in nature. In filtered tanks, doing a weekly PWC is > OK as long as the bioload isn't too heavy. In an unfiltered Betta > bowl, doing more frequent PWC's is recommended, especially since these > fish are mostly carnivores and their protein rich foods cause water quality issues much faster. > > Yes, wild Bettas are often found in rice paddies and stagnant type > water conditions which is why they've developed a labyrinth organ over > thousands/millions of years (or God just created them that way to > start > with) but even in those waters, they have more than a gallon or two of > water per fish. Each fish probably has 10's of gallons of water > (because of their aggressiveness to each other) and the water is > heavily planted and gets lots of rain fall or other water influx to keep the rice paddies water logged. > The labyrinth comes into play when there waters start to dry up or get > too stagnant and they are forced to breathe surface air to survive > until the next rainfall or other influx of water. > > Here's a snip from... > http://animaldiversity.ummz.umich.edu/site/accounts/information/Betta_ > splend ens.html which is actually a pretty good profile on Betta > Splendens (common > Bettas) and I might have to look around this University of Michigan > site for more good profiles (although my dad might be frowning down on > me since he went to Ohio State... Geaux Buckeyes... as long as they're > not playing my LSU Tigers!) (START SNIP) During the dry season, most > Bettas are able to bury themselves in the bottom of their dried up > habitat. There, they can live in moist cavities until water once again > fills the depression during a rainy period. The fish can survive even > if thick, clay mud is all that is left of the water. They do not > survive total drying out of the bottom. (Vierke 1988) (END SNIP) > > Also see my earlier post about other solutions to the algae problem. > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles > referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically > under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) > > > -----Original Message----- > > I think we're (quote-unquote) "arguing" over wording. Just how small > do you think the bowl is? > > The problem is the amount of bright light the bowl is exposed to > throughout the day. It's under her table/reading lamp. Mom spends > her days reading and watching Kala. And therefore the algae blooms. > > Yes, that means keeping an eye on it and a more frequent maintenance > schedule. Harry's suggestion of every day seems too often and will > cause the water to cycle continuously instead of stabilize. Remember > that wild Bettas live in very murky rice paddies. Algae is not as > objectionable to them as it is to us. > ~Kai > > > > > Lenny V. wrote: > > > > UH OH... I see a can of worms... and I've got my can opener ready! > > LOL > > > > Yes, they "CAN" live in a bowl but that doesn't mean they should > > live in a bowl. This would be analogous to saying a family of four "CAN" > > live in an 8' x 8' room with a hole in the ground for a toilet... > > but that doesn't mean they *should* live in that type of home. It > > also doesn't mean that the government should create another > > government program to give larger homes to people that can't afford > > them out of their own income. LOL > > > > Doing a 25% PWC every day and using a small algae scrubber on the > > inside of the glass and then siphoning the gravel at least once a > > week or more, as needed, will go a long way to improving the water > > quality and thus lessening the algae growth. > > > > Also see my other reply before this one. > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles > > referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, > > alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) > > > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > > Because Bettas are surface breathers, they CAN live in bowls. > > (Bowls meaning they don't need aeration.) The one he's in isn't > > "small" but I'm on the lookout for a larger one or small tank, > > preferably at a Salvation Army price. > > > > Cleaning the bowl every day would mean too much of a water change > > and that would screw up his little ecosystem, having the water > > cycling all the > time. > > ~Kai > > > > > > > > > > --- Harry wrote: > > > > > > Clean the bowl every day and explain to Momma fish don't belong in > bowls. > > A small tank is cheap at Walmart. > > > Harry > > > > > > --- On Sat, 11/7/09, Dora Smith <tiggernut24@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > Sounds like someone has to go over to Momma's house every > > > once in a > > while and clean the bowl. > > > > > > Yours, > > > > > > Dora Smith > > > > > > Austin, TX > > > > > > tiggernut24@ yahoo.com > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > > > > > > > I got Mom a Betta a month or two back and his bowl is under the > > > big table > > > > > > lamp that she uses to read -- all day. So no wonder his bowl gets > > > bright > > > > > > green with algae growth. The answer is to move his bowl but no, > > > it's the > > > > > > most convenient place and she likes having him there. > > > > > > > > > > > > I mentioned getting a snail but someone replied that Mystery > > > Snails don't > > > > > > eat algae -- they eat the food that falls to the bottom. But > > > other posts > > > > > > say they DO eat algae. > > > > > > > > > > > > So which is it? And will s/he eat enough of it to keep Kala's > > > algae problem > > > > > > kinda-sorta under control? > > > > > > > > > > > > It's not easy being greeeeeeeen. .. > > > > > > ~Kai

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 44271	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 11/7/2009
Subject: Re: stuck thermometer?

Oh... so you're the guy that I heard the PetsMart people complaining about when they had to re-hang all them dang thermometers on the J-hooks. ;-) Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Deenerz@... Sent: Saturday, November 07, 2009 5:06 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] stuck thermometer? When I go thermometer shopping I grab about 10 of them off the display and lay them out side by side. You can usually see the one or two in the bunch that read incorrectly or are broken. But like Steve mentioned a room or area with a known temperature. I often will put a new thermometer in a tank that already has a thermometer to see how close they read to each other. -Mike -----Original Message----- From: Steve Szabo <steve@...> To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Sat, Nov 7, 2009 6:10 am Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] stuck thermometer? Erika, All thermometers are relatively accurate, but that does not preclude an incident from occurring that may make the thermometer less accurate than it had been, as happened to you. If you are worried about the relative accuracy of your thermometer(s), you can place it in an area of known temperature for about an hour, then take a reading. However, if the reading is accurate, be aware that it is accurate at that temperature only. However, you can reasonably conclude that the thermometer will be relatively accurate throughout its range. To paraphrase an old saying, "Man who has one thermometer knows what temperature it is, many who has many does not." \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of erikaandnewton Sent: Saturday, November 07, 2009 7:38 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] stuck thermometer? so i had an impulse buy of some newts, forgetting they like cooler temperatures than my frogs. i set up a tank for them, put in a heater just to keep it from getting below 68, dropped in the thermometer i had been using in the frog tank (which had shown me varying temps as should be expected) and went about my chores. a few hours later i checked on the tank, the thermometer read 80 degrees. stuck my finger in and thought "odd, doesn't even feel as warm as the frog tank", unplugged the heater and left the lid open. a few hours later, still read at 80 degrees. so, took the brand new thermometer out of the frog tank and put it in the newt tank. a nice cool 68ish degrees. i stuck the old thermometer in the fridge and checked on it this morning. whatdya know my fridge is 80 degrees. so now im paranoid that a regular ordinary thermometer can malfunction. something i never thought could occur. my question is, what kind of thermometer do i have to buy to make sure i'm getting an accurate reading? erika newark de usa ------------------------------------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. `..><((((>.`..`.><((((> .`.. , .`..><((((> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <((((><.`..`.<((((><.`.. , .`..<((((><`.. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the home page. Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com to receive the digest, which includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com for the No E-Mail option where you will still be able to read messages on the group and post replies. Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com to receive individual e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 44272	From: Deenerz@aol.com	Date: 11/7/2009
Subject: Re: stuck thermometer?

Yep! I'm the guy :) I am also the guy that makes the poor clerk net out THAT ONE fish in the feeder tank of a hundred fish. -Mike -----Original Message----- From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@...> To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Sat, Nov 7, 2009 3:17 pm Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] stuck thermometer?   Oh... so you're the guy that I heard the PetsMart people complaining about when they had to re-hang all them dang thermometers on the J-hooks. ;-) Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Deenerz@... Sent: Saturday, November 07, 2009 5:06 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] stuck thermometer? When I go thermometer shopping I grab about 10 of them off the display and lay them out side by side. You can usually see the one or two in the bunch that read incorrectly or are broken. But like Steve mentioned a room or area with a known temperature. I often will put a new thermometer in a tank that already has a thermometer to see how close they read to each other. -Mike -----Original Message----- From: Steve Szabo <steve@...> To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Sat, Nov 7, 2009 6:10 am Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] stuck thermometer? Erika, All thermometers are relatively accurate, but that does not preclude an incident from occurring that may make the thermometer less accurate than it had been, as happened to you. If you are worried about the relative accuracy of your thermometer(s), you can place it in an area of known temperature for about an hour, then take a reading. However, if the reading is accurate, be aware that it is accurate at that temperature only. However, you can reasonably conclude that the thermometer will be relatively accurate throughout its range. To paraphrase an old saying, "Man who has one thermometer knows what temperature it is, many who has many does not." \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of erikaandnewton Sent: Saturday, November 07, 2009 7:38 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] stuck thermometer? so i had an impulse buy of some newts, forgetting they like cooler temperatures than my frogs. i set up a tank for them, put in a heater just to keep it from getting below 68, dropped in the thermometer i had been using in the frog tank (which had shown me varying temps as should be expected) and went about my chores. a few hours later i checked on the tank, the thermometer read 80 degrees. stuck my finger in and thought "odd, doesn't even feel as warm as the frog tank", unplugged the heater and left the lid open. a few hours later, still read at 80 degrees. so, took the brand new thermometer out of the frog tank and put it in the newt tank. a nice cool 68ish degrees. i stuck the old thermometer in the fridge and checked on it this morning. whatdya know my fridge is 80 degrees. so now im paranoid that a regular ordinary thermometer can malfunction. something i never thought could occur. my question is, what kind of thermometer do i have to buy to make sure i'm getting an accurate reading? erika newark de usa ------------------------------------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. `..><((((>.`..`.><((((> .`.. , .`..><((((> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <((((><.`..`.<((((><.`.. , .`..<((((><`.. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the home page. Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com to receive the digest, which includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com for the No E-Mail option where you will still be able to read messages on the group and post replies. Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com to receive individual e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 44273	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 11/7/2009
Subject: Re: Algae

According to Applesnail.net they DO NOT eat algae after they are adult snails, most of their algae eating is done when they are young, so she would have to trade out her snails, LOL. Amber kuradi8 wrote: > > I got Mom a Betta a month or two back and his bowl is under the big > table lamp that she uses to read -- all day. So no wonder his bowl > gets bright green with algae growth. The answer is to move his bowl > but no, it's the most convenient place and she likes having him there. > > I mentioned getting a snail but someone replied that Mystery Snails > don't eat algae -- they eat the food that falls to the bottom. But > other posts say they DO eat algae. > > So which is it? And will s/he eat enough of it to keep Kala's algae > problem kinda-sorta under control? > > It's not easy being greeeeeeeen... > ~Kai > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 44274	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 11/7/2009
Subject: Re: Plants growing black hair - eek.

I'm sure Lenny has probably posted some links on algae by now, but if it is Black Beard Algae (like it sounds like to me, since I have it in all my tanks), you can get rid of it by using hydrogen peroxide, but not if you have ANY snails or shrimp, etc. Only fish. Hydrogen peroxide is only safe around fish, and you still should be careful not to squirt it where the fish are. Amber cat.rose wrote: > > Hey all! > > Things have been going good here with my 10 gal FW tank. About a month > or more ago I bought sone new plants at PetSmart: don't know the name > but they're fluffy, kind of angel hairy types, bright green. > > Well a couple weeks ago I was doing my PWC and noticed what looked > like clumps of my roommate's black hair in the tank. Since I'm the > only one who ever cleans the tank, I was very confused as to how this > happened as I'm pretty meticulous with the tank/fish. > > Well, it seems these plants are "growing" long black "hair"! It > doesn't seem like the plant is dying and turning black because the > black hairs are much longer than the green parts. It looks kind of > gross, and the hairs are breaking off or something cuz they're not > just on the live plants but bits scattered around the tank too. > > Should I immediately take out the plants and throw them out? Can it > hurt my fish? I'm sure it's clogging up the filter, which I probably > need to clean now too. > > Looks rather frightening in there now... > > Thanks! > Catherine > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 44275	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 11/7/2009
Subject: Re: Are micro bubbles bad for a freshwater aquarium?

I concur. Unless one is getting a lot of micro-bubbles forming on their tank glass after doing a PWC, I wouldn't worry about the bubble we can see in the water column. The ones that form on a tank's glass after a PWC could be a result of excessive gases in the incoming water and depending on what the gas is, this could be a problem... or not. Doing a 48 hour baseline test (see my blog article for details) on your tap water will often expose gas issues such as higher levels of CO2 coming out the tap, etc. Can you give us a link to whatever you were reading? Maybe there's something in there that would help us answer better. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Steve Szabo Sent: Saturday, November 07, 2009 4:52 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Are micro bubbles bad for a freshwater aquarium? Filters pour water into a tank do not create much, if anything, in the way of micro-bubbles, nor do air diffusers. Micro-bubbles are small, almost invisible to the naked eye, bubbles, and some may even not be seen. Micro-bubbles in refugariums may have two causes. One is the biological processes carried on in the refugarium by bacteria and plants. The other is a result of foam fractionation, where very fine bubbles are used to remove DOC's from the water. They can and do dissipate over time. What is your concern over micro-bubbles? Is this another myth in development, or is there some real concern over a specific harm they can do? The reason I ask is that micro-bubbles have been present in our tanks, especially in marine tanks because salt water is more conducive to them than fresh, for a very long time, and I have seen nothing to indicate a problem with them and the only concern has been their presence in large quantities not making for a poor viewing experience. \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Miquela Sent: Saturday, November 07, 2009 4:42 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Are micro bubbles bad for a freshwater aquarium? I have been reading about Refugiums and that they have some sort of object to remove micro bubbles. Why do we use on the side filters that pour water back in creating micro bubbles or why do we use air defusers? I'm very confused by this. To have micro bubbles that is the question.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 44276	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 11/7/2009
Subject: Re: Plants growing black hair - eek.

Nahhh.. no links yet. Still waiting for other questions to be answered. I try not to give any kind of treatment till I have a decent understanding of what might be causing the algae first. It's best to figure out the cause and eliminate the cause or treating it will just result in it coming back again. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Amber Berglund Sent: Saturday, November 07, 2009 5:36 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Plants growing black hair - eek. I'm sure Lenny has probably posted some links on algae by now, but if it is Black Beard Algae (like it sounds like to me, since I have it in all my tanks), you can get rid of it by using hydrogen peroxide, but not if you have ANY snails or shrimp, etc. Only fish. Hydrogen peroxide is only safe around fish, and you still should be careful not to squirt it where the fish are. Amber cat.rose wrote: > > Hey all! > > Things have been going good here with my 10 gal FW tank. About a month > or more ago I bought sone new plants at PetSmart: don't know the name > but they're fluffy, kind of angel hairy types, bright green. > > Well a couple weeks ago I was doing my PWC and noticed what looked > like clumps of my roommate's black hair in the tank. Since I'm the > only one who ever cleans the tank, I was very confused as to how this > happened as I'm pretty meticulous with the tank/fish. > > Well, it seems these plants are "growing" long black "hair"! It > doesn't seem like the plant is dying and turning black because the > black hairs are much longer than the green parts. It looks kind of > gross, and the hairs are breaking off or something cuz they're not > just on the live plants but bits scattered around the tank too. > > Should I immediately take out the plants and throw them out? Can it > hurt my fish? I'm sure it's clogging up the filter, which I probably > need to clean now too. > > Looks rather frightening in there now... > > Thanks! > Catherine

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 44277	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 11/7/2009
Subject: Re: Plants growing black hair - eek.

I figured you would be posting links so she could identify her algae ;) LOL. Okay will wait for it ;) Amber Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > > Nahhh.. no links yet. Still waiting for other questions to be answered. > > I try not to give any kind of treatment till I have a decent understanding > of what might be causing the algae first. It's best to figure out the > cause > and eliminate the cause or treating it will just result in it coming back > again. > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right > side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) > > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On > Behalf Of Amber Berglund > Sent: Saturday, November 07, 2009 5:36 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Plants growing black hair - eek. > > I'm sure Lenny has probably posted some links on algae by now, but if > it is > Black Beard Algae (like it sounds like to me, since I have it in all my > tanks), you can get rid of it by using hydrogen peroxide, but not if you > have ANY snails or shrimp, etc. Only fish. Hydrogen peroxide is only safe > around fish, and you still should be careful not to squirt it where > the fish > are. > > Amber > > cat.rose wrote: > > > > Hey all! > > > > Things have been going good here with my 10 gal FW tank. About a month > > or more ago I bought sone new plants at PetSmart: don't know the name > > but they're fluffy, kind of angel hairy types, bright green. > > > > Well a couple weeks ago I was doing my PWC and noticed what looked > > like clumps of my roommate's black hair in the tank. Since I'm the > > only one who ever cleans the tank, I was very confused as to how this > > happened as I'm pretty meticulous with the tank/fish. > > > > Well, it seems these plants are "growing" long black "hair"! It > > doesn't seem like the plant is dying and turning black because the > > black hairs are much longer than the green parts. It looks kind of > > gross, and the hairs are breaking off or something cuz they're not > > just on the live plants but bits scattered around the tank too. > > > > Should I immediately take out the plants and throw them out? Can it > > hurt my fish? I'm sure it's clogging up the filter, which I probably > > need to clean now too. > > > > Looks rather frightening in there now... > > > > Thanks! > > Catherine > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 44278	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 11/7/2009
Subject: Re: pH testers

Perhaps test at the same time every day and see if it fluctuates, if you have to you may have to do your PWC's around the same time every day, when the water least fluctuates. Amber Lainey Alexander wrote: > I think the pH from the well is stable. It's all the filters that are > messing up the pH. I think the main issue is the water softener. The > pH seems to fluctuate a lot before and after the softener > regenerates. Last night, right before the softener regenerated, the > pH at the tap was 7.4. This morning, after regeneration was finished, > I got 8.1. Go figure! > > I have tried many times to "get off" the softener and have concluded > that with my water, it can't be done. I actually purchase Berkshire > Mountain Spring water for human drinking, but feel that this is too > expensive and cumbersome for the fish, poor things. > > Anyway, I will figure this out one way or another and appreciate all > the input. > > Thanks again, > > Lainey > http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com > > On Nov 7, 2009, at 5:31 PM, Steve Szabo wrote: > > >> Lainey, >> >> That Berkshire water is pretty strange then. Normally an aquifer is >> pretty >> stable in pH and minerals it contains. When I was on well water >> (also in MA) >> the pH was pretty stable, not varying more than =/- 0.1. My water >> company >> water, that I have to have now, varies more than that, since they use >> several water sources depending on various factors. The types of >> water they >> use are reservoir water, well water, and water from the Potomac >> River. I am >> sure it fluctuates more than I see, because it gets treated and they >> probably try to maintain a sane pH level for the sake of their pipes. >> >> Do you have a deep well, or a shallow well? This may be a factor in >> your pH >> readings showing what they do. You might want to do some poking >> around to >> see what you may find about your local water. Check to see if you >> can find >> any information about your aquifer, check with the guys who drill >> the wells, >> check with local water testing outfits. All may have some >> information that >> may be of some help. Also cruise the web sites of towns near you that >> provide water for their residents (probably Pittsfield, Lee, maybe >> Stockbridge, and a few others). >> >> You mentioned earlier the use of RO chemicals with your water. Are >> you using >> RO at all?, What are you taking out of the water by your filters? >> What is >> the pH when the process is done? Perhaps change to a different type of >> filter may help control the pH problem (he says, shooting in the >> dark). >> >> \\Steve// >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com >> [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On >> Behalf Of Lainey Alexander >> Sent: Saturday, November 07, 2009 4:00 PM >> To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com >> Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] pH testers >> >> It's a well and the pH I am testing as it comes out of the tap but >> then also over the next two days and it stays where it comes out of >> the tap. Problem is, it is anywhere from 7.4 to 8.5 when it comes out >> of the tap. That's why I can never get a system going, because my >> levels are all over the place. Then add in the CO2 and it gets even >> more confusing. >> >> Lainey >> http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com >> >> On Nov 7, 2009, at 3:50 PM, Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: >> >> >>> OK. Lets back up to your tap water. What do you mean by it >>> "fluctuates"? >>> Is this based on the right out the tap versus the 48 hour baseline >>> or what? >>> >>> Maybe you should start a couple of 48 hour baseline tests, one >>> today, one on >>> Sunday and one on Monday and monitor them and their final results >>> on Monday, >>> Tuesday and Wednesday and let us know the beginning and end numbers >>> for each >>> day. >>> >>> Remind us about your water supply again. Public utility (and where >>> do they >>> get their water), well water, reservoir, etc.? >>> >>> Lenny Vasbinder >>> Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com >>> (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the >>> right >>> side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, >>> Month) >>> >>> >>> -----Original Message----- >>> From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com >>> [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On >>> Behalf Of Lainey Alexander >>> Sent: Saturday, November 07, 2009 1:58 PM >>> To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com >>> Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] pH testers >>> >>> Hi Lenny - >>> >>> I understand what you are saying about CO2 causing OK pH swings, >>> but the >>> main problem I am having now is that my tap water apparently >>> fluctuates >>> between 7.4 and 8.5! I finally figured this out in the past few >>> days. This >>> is one reason I am being driven insane by my pH issues. >>> >>> I'll work it out, somehow, but for now I think I do need to monitor >>> my tap >>> water and its effects in the tanks. >>> >>> Thanks, >>> >>> Lainey >>> http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com >>> >>> On Nov 7, 2009, at 2:54 PM, Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: >>> >>> >>>> I'm not so sure you need to be worrying about your pH as much >>>> >> as you >> >>>> may be. >>>> pH changes caused by CO2 are NOT the same as pH changes caused by >>>> other water chemistry factors. What you should be monitoring is >>>> >> your >> >>>> CO2 output to make sure you are not wasting CO2. Do you monitor >>>> >> your >> >>>> CO2 levels? >>>> >>>> While the pH may rise and fall based on the CO2 level in the >>>> >>> tank, the >>> >>>> GH and KH should remain relatively constant and because these are >>>> constant, the fish are not affected. For reasons not known to >>>> >> me, pH >> >>>> fluctuations caused by *normal* rising and falling CO2 levels in >>>> natural waters DO NOT cause problems to fish like pH fluctuations >>>> caused by other water parameter changes... too much carbonic acid >>>> and/or other acids released by decaying detritus/mulm, low KH >>>> >>> levels, >>> >>>> etc. This is probably part of God's plan since He knew that the >>>> >> CO2 >> >>>> levels would rise at night when plants were not taking in CO2 and >>>> >>> then >>> >>>> fall during the day when the plants start sucking in the CO2 via >>>> photosynthesis. >>>> >>>> You should make sure your CO2 is regulated properly and then start >>>> testing your pH at a consistent time each day so you can then >>>> >> see a >> >>>> pattern develop. >>>> For example, if you keep the CO2 levels consistent, 24 hours a >>>> >> day, >> >>>> your pH will be much lower first thing in the morning, before you >>>> >>> turn >>> >>>> on your lights and then by the end of the day, after the plants >>>> >> have >> >>>> been sucking up >>>> CO2 all day, the pH level will be higher. BUT... during this >>>> >> entire >> >>>> fluctuation, the GH and KH should have remained relatively >>>> >>> unchanged, >>> >>>> although they will both go down over time without proper tank >>>> maintenance. >>>> If any of these three should crash, that would cause >>>> >> osmoregulatory >> >>>> shock issues to your fish. >>>> >>>> Lenny Vasbinder >>>> Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles >>>> referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, >>>> >>> alphabetically >>> >>>> under Labels and also under Archives by Year, >>>> Month) >>>> >>>> -----Original Message----- >>>> From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com >>>> [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Lainey Alexander >>>> Sent: Saturday, November 07, 2009 9:57 AM >>>> To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com >>>> Subject: [AquaticLife] pH testers >>>> >>>> I have the pH test kits that you run via a vial by adding drops >>>> >>> and I >>> >>>> have a much more expensive probe by Milwaukee and I am not happy >>>> >>> with >>> >>>> either. The vials drive me crazy because they take too long to >>>> >>> set up >>> >>>> with getting the water to the right level, adding the drops, >>>> >> washing >> >>>> out the vial etc. plus I can never really tell what the reading >>>> >>> is by >>> >>>> comparing to the color charts, I don't like this system at all. >>>> >> And >> >>>> the probe just isn't working. I calibrate the probe as per >>>> >>> directions, >>> >>>> using some kind of calibration liquid that came with it, but each >>>> >>> day >>> >>>> the probe needs to be re-calibrated and is WAY off, like >>>> >>> sometimes up >>> >>>> to .7. >>>> >>>> Does anyone know of a better/easier way to test pH? >>>> >>>> I do need to monitor my pH because I have planted tanks with >>>> >>> injected >>> >>>> CO2 and the pH can fluctuate. Also, my tap water pH fluctuates. >>>> >>> All of >>> >>>> which means I do a lot of testing, and need some way to test that >>>> won't be so cumbersome and frustrating. >>>> >>>> Thank you, >>>> >>>> Lainey >>>> http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com >>>> >>>> >>> >> > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > ------------------------------------ > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. > ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> > PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- > <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. > > If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the home page. > > Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com to receive the digest, which includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email > > Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com for the No E-Mail option where you will still be able to read messages on the group and post replies. > > Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com to receive individual e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links > > > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 44279	From: Laurie Murphy	Date: 11/7/2009
Subject: Re: stuck thermometer?

When I worked in pet stores, I always told customers if they could identify a specific fish to me, I’d catch it. No one could ever identify a specific kuhli loach or Chinese algae eater. Those (and some of the eels) were the toughest. Laurie From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Deenerz@... Sent: Saturday, November 07, 2009 3:26 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] stuck thermometer? Yep! I'm the guy :) I am also the guy that makes the poor clerk net out THAT ONE fish in the feeder tank of a hundred fish. -Mike -----Original Message----- From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@... <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com> > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> Sent: Sat, Nov 7, 2009 3:17 pm Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] stuck thermometer? Oh... so you're the guy that I heard the PetsMart people complaining about when they had to re-hang all them dang thermometers on the J-hooks. ;-) Lenny Vasbinder [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 44280	From: Miquela D	Date: 11/7/2009
Subject: Re: Are micro bubbles bad for a freshwater aquarium?

no link no sourse. Just thinking about if since Micro Bubbles arn't welcome in a refugium are they welcome in our display tank? of Freshwater might i add. I am 2 hang on back filters one for 10-15gal the other for 20gal also 4 blue air stones. I have a 29 Gal Aquarium with glass top. i use a plastic top w/light for a 10gal. using a grow bulb and a blue bulb (from goodwill). I want to have a Refugium. I can understand them as great biofilter. Wish i could afford the style that Pet Smart have. All acrylic in 4 levels with lots of aquatic plants. Though here I am with only donated and second hand items. :( XoXo Miquela D. XoXo Dragon Roses Consulting --- On Sat, 11/7/09, Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@...> wrote: From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@...> Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Are micro bubbles bad for a freshwater aquarium? To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Date: Saturday, November 7, 2009, 5:40 PM   I concur. Unless one is getting a lot of micro-bubbles forming on their tank glass after doing a PWC, I wouldn't worry about the bubble we can see in the water column. The ones that form on a tank's glass after a PWC could be a result of excessive gases in the incoming water and depending on what the gas is, this could be a problem... or not. Doing a 48 hour baseline test (see my blog article for details) on your tap water will often expose gas issues such as higher levels of CO2 coming out the tap, etc. Can you give us a link to whatever you were reading? Maybe there's something in there that would help us answer better. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com [mailto:AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com] On Behalf Of Steve Szabo Sent: Saturday, November 07, 2009 4:52 PM To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Are micro bubbles bad for a freshwater aquarium? Filters pour water into a tank do not create much, if anything, in the way of micro-bubbles, nor do air diffusers. Micro-bubbles are small, almost invisible to the naked eye, bubbles, and some may even not be seen. Micro-bubbles in refugariums may have two causes. One is the biological processes carried on in the refugarium by bacteria and plants. The other is a result of foam fractionation, where very fine bubbles are used to remove DOC's from the water. They can and do dissipate over time. What is your concern over micro-bubbles? Is this another myth in development, or is there some real concern over a specific harm they can do? The reason I ask is that micro-bubbles have been present in our tanks, especially in marine tanks because salt water is more conducive to them than fresh, for a very long time, and I have seen nothing to indicate a problem with them and the only concern has been their presence in large quantities not making for a poor viewing experience. \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com [mailto:AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com] On Behalf Of Miquela Sent: Saturday, November 07, 2009 4:42 PM To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com Subject: [AquaticLife] Are micro bubbles bad for a freshwater aquarium? I have been reading about Refugiums and that they have some sort of object to remove micro bubbles. Why do we use on the side filters that pour water back in creating micro bubbles or why do we use air defusers? I'm very confused by this. To have micro bubbles that is the question. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 44281	From: Dora Smith	Date: 11/7/2009
Subject: Re: Algae/Betta Bowl/kuradi8

It's in a gallon and a half of water, not a half pint! Yours, Dora Smith Austin, TX tiggernut24@... ----- Original Message ----- From: "harry perry" <harryfisherman@...> To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Saturday, November 07, 2009 11:16 AM Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: Algae/Betta Bowl/kuradi8 I'm well aware that a Betta is a Labyrinth fish. I'm also aware that in a small bowl this fish is constantly swimming in it's own waste. Harry --- On Sat, 11/7/09, kuradi8 <kuradi8@...> wrote: From: kuradi8 <kuradi8@...> Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Algae/Betta Bowl To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Date: Saturday, November 7, 2009, 12:06 PM Because Bettas are surface breathers, they CAN live in bowls. (Bowls meaning they don't need aeration.) The one he's in isn't "small" but I'm on the lookout for a larger one or small tank, preferably at a Salvation Army price. Cleaning the bowl every day would mean too much of a water change and that would screw up his little ecosystem, having the water cycling all the time. ~Kai --- Harry wrote: > > Clean the bowl every day and explain to Momma fish don't belong in bowls. > A small tank is cheap at Walmart. > Harry > > --- On Sat, 11/7/09, Dora Smith <tiggernut24@ ...> wrote: > > > Sounds like someone has to go over to Momma's house every once in a > while and clean the bowl. > > Yours, > > Dora Smith > > Austin, TX > > tiggernut24@ yahoo.com > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > I got Mom a Betta a month or two back and his bowl is under the big table > > lamp that she uses to read -- all day. So no wonder his bowl gets bright > > green with algae growth. The answer is to move his bowl but no, it's the > > most convenient place and she likes having him there. > > > > I mentioned getting a snail but someone replied that Mystery Snails don't > > eat algae -- they eat the food that falls to the bottom. But other posts > > say they DO eat algae. > > > > So which is it? And will s/he eat enough of it to keep Kala's algae > problem > > kinda-sorta under control? > > > > It's not easy being greeeeeeeen. .. > > ~Kai > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] ------------------------------------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. `..><((((>.`..`.><((((> .`.. , .`..><((((> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <((((><.`..`.<((((><.`.. , .`..<((((><`.. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the home page. Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com to receive the digest, which includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com for the No E-Mail option where you will still be able to read messages on the group and post replies. Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com to receive individual e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 44282	From: Donna Ransome	Date: 11/7/2009
Subject: Re: Algae/Betta Bowl

Can you make a shade shaped like a coolie hat and suspend it over the bowl but under the light beam? _____ From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of kuradi8 Sent: Saturday, November 07, 2009 4:10 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Algae/Betta Bowl I think we're (quote-unquote) "arguing" over wording. Just how small do you think the bowl is? The problem is the amount of bright light the bowl is exposed to throughout the day. It's under her table/reading lamp. Mom spends her days reading and watching Kala. And therefore the algae blooms. Yes, that means keeping an eye on it and a more frequent maintenance schedule. Harry's suggestion of every day seems too often and will cause the water to cycle continuously instead of stabilize. Remember that wild Bettas live in very murky rice paddies. Algae is not as objectionable to them as it is to us. ~Kai > Lenny V. wrote: > > UH OH... I see a can of worms... and I've got my can opener ready! LOL > > Yes, they "CAN" live in a bowl but that doesn't mean they should live in a > bowl. This would be analogous to saying a family of four "CAN" live in an > 8' x 8' room with a hole in the ground for a toilet... but that doesn't mean > they *should* live in that type of home. It also doesn't mean that the > government should create another government program to give larger homes to > people that can't afford them out of their own income. LOL > > Doing a 25% PWC every day and using a small algae scrubber on the inside of > the glass and then siphoning the gravel at least once a week or more, as > needed, will go a long way to improving the water quality and thus lessening > the algae growth. > > Also see my other reply before this one. > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> blogspot.com > (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right > side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) > > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com] On > Behalf Of kuradi8 > Sent: Saturday, November 07, 2009 11:06 AM > To: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Algae/Betta Bowl > > Because Bettas are surface breathers, they CAN live in bowls. (Bowls > meaning they don't need aeration.) The one he's in isn't "small" but I'm on > the lookout for a larger one or small tank, preferably at a Salvation Army > price. > > Cleaning the bowl every day would mean too much of a water change and that > would screw up his little ecosystem, having the water cycling all the time. > ~Kai > > > > > --- Harry wrote: > > > > Clean the bowl every day and explain to Momma fish don't belong in bowls. > A small tank is cheap at Walmart. > > Harry > > > > --- On Sat, 11/7/09, Dora Smith <tiggernut24@> wrote: > > > > > > Sounds like someone has to go over to Momma's house every once in a > while and clean the bowl. > > > > Yours, > > > > Dora Smith > > > > Austin, TX > > > > tiggernut24@ yahoo.com > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > > > > I got Mom a Betta a month or two back and his bowl is under the big > > table > > > > lamp that she uses to read -- all day. So no wonder his bowl gets > > bright > > > > green with algae growth. The answer is to move his bowl but no, it's > > the > > > > most convenient place and she likes having him there. > > > > > > > > I mentioned getting a snail but someone replied that Mystery Snails > > don't > > > > eat algae -- they eat the food that falls to the bottom. But other > > posts > > > > say they DO eat algae. > > > > > > > > So which is it? And will s/he eat enough of it to keep Kala's algae > > problem > > > > kinda-sorta under control? > > > > > > > > It's not easy being greeeeeeeen. .. > > > > ~Kai > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 44283	From: Donna Ransome	Date: 11/7/2009
Subject: Re: pH testers

Grab the water before the filters. -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Lainey Alexander Sent: Saturday, November 07, 2009 4:48 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] pH testers I have to laugh because I am one step ahead of you on all of these ideas, have tried all of this:) I do have the high range pH and I have checked my equipment on the well water. I think what is happening is that the water comes in from the well and goes through three filters, and the filters recharge at different points, and there must be pH swings when the equipment is cycling. Ugh. Lainey http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com On Nov 7, 2009, at 4:26 PM, Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > Well, if everyone is seeing different colors, it certainly sounds > like an > acid problem... LSD flashbacks or have all your friends been > licking them > hallucinogenic toads lately? LOL > > But now being serious again... take the three free tests to make > sure you do > not suffer any color-blindness and if your friends are seeing > different > colors, then have them take the tests also so you'll know who you > can trust > in the future for second opinions on color. I know that I do have some > color-blindness but at least I know which colors I do not see as > well so I > can compensate accordingly. > > Once again, complete accuracy is not needed but you should be able > to tell > the difference between 7.4 and 8.4 as there are major differences. > BTW, you > mentioned "7.4 and 8.5" but the API cards go up only by even > numbers on the > pH test cards. Even with 7.4 to 7.8, there is a major difference in > color > on the API High Range pH test card but on the low range card, the > colors are > much closer for that range. Are you using the two different test > kits... > one for Low pH range and one for High pH range? Are you possibly > comingling > the directions? The Low pH range bottle (actually just called pH > Indicator > Solution on my API kit, only uses 3 drops where the High range pH > Indicator > Solution uses 5 drops. Just trying to eliminate any possibility of > human > error. > > If I remember right now, after reading more of your recent posts, > you have > well water that is pretty funky and you have it running through a > couple of > filters/softeners first.... right? If yes, check your filters to > make sure > they are working properly. > > Also, when your tap water comes out one day at 7.4 and another day > at 8.4, > run 48 hour baselines on each of them to see where they end up. Just > because you've done this in the past and they stayed the same does > NOT mean > that it will stay the same this time. > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the > right > side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, > Month) > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On > Behalf Of Lainey Alexander > Sent: Saturday, November 07, 2009 2:58 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] pH testers > > I don't have any issues with seeing color, and I have asked several > people > to look at the color charts and everyone sees a different color! > > Lainey > http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com > > On Nov 7, 2009, at 3:30 PM, Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > > > To elaborate on my earlier post and this one from \\Steve//, the > > experts say that as many as 25% of adults suffer from some type of > > color- blindness. > > Here are some free online tests to find out if you do have any > type of > > color-blindness which can make reading the color charts more > > difficult. > > > > Simple - http://www.toledo-bend.com/colorblind/Ishihara.asp > > > > A little better - http://colorvisiontesting.com/online%20test.htm > > > > A BIG TIME test - http://www.xrite.com/worldwide.aspx (click on your > > region/language) Here is the one for the US/English... > > http://www.xrite.com/custom_page.aspx?PageID=77 > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles > > referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, > alphabetically > > under Labels and also under Archives by Year, > > Month) > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Steve Szabo > > Sent: Saturday, November 07, 2009 12:26 PM > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] pH testers > > > > Lainey, > > > > Those methods are the two best methods for measuring pH. > > > > The probes are relatively sensitive, and do need to be recalibrated > > before each use. They should actually be calibrated with 3 different > > solutions, one a pH 4.0, one at pH 7.0, and one at, I believe, pH > > 10.0, The probes to need to be replaced after a period of time when > > they no longer calibrate. What the period of time is depends on the > > quality of the probe itself (the part you put into the water) and > the > > water being tested. > > > > A good test kit can give you very accurate readings. Do you have a > > problem distinguishing colors other than with the test kits? If so, > > this can be a problem. If you do not, you may need to change your > kit > > to one that I recommend. It is Kordon's AquaTru. They are not > > inexpensive, like the API kits are. They will cost you some real > > money. They have the colors, also, but the colors are easier to > read, > > since they are part of the vial, and you have your test water and > > clear(?) water to read the colors through. > > One of > > the problems people face is that, though they think so, their > water is > > not really colorless, and it can affect the colors they see from the > > test sample, making it hard, sometimes, to distinguish the proper > > color. > > The > > Kordon kits take this part out of the equation. However, it may not > > help if you normally have problems distinguishing variations of > color. > > > > To help with the proper leveling of water, you may want to pick up a > > supply of those plastic droppers that were talked about the other > day > > (I know, they called them pipettes with a bulb on the end, but to > > normal people, they are droppers). You can just fill the vials up > with > > water, and then use the dropper to take out what is not needed, or > > fill the vial using the droppers, or some variation of these > methods, > > whatever works best for you. > > > > FWIW, I tried the probe many years ago, shortly after they became > > available in the hobby, and was not pleased with them. Too time > > consuming to calibrate, needed to calibrate too often, and the > probes > > did not last very long. The replacement probes were also expensive. > > Today, the cost structure may be different, but calibration issues > > seem to remain. I've stuck with the Kordon kits. > > > > \\Steve// > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Lainey Alexander > > Sent: Saturday, November 07, 2009 10:57 AM > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > Subject: [AquaticLife] pH testers > > > > I have the pH test kits that you run via a vial by adding drops > and I > > have a much more expensive probe by Milwaukee and I am not happy > with > > either. The vials drive me crazy because they take too long to > set up > > with getting the water to the right level, adding the drops, washing > > out the vial etc. plus I can never really tell what the reading > is by > > comparing to the color charts, I don't like this system at all. And > > the probe just isn't working. I calibrate the probe as per > directions, > > using some kind of calibration liquid that came with it, but each > day > > the probe needs to be re-calibrated and is WAY off, like > sometimes up > > to .7. > > > > Does anyone know of a better/easier way to test pH? > > > > I do need to monitor my pH because I have planted tanks with > injected > > CO2 and the pH can fluctuate. Also, my tap water pH fluctuates. > All of > > which means I do a lot of testing, and need some way to test that > > won't be so cumbersome and frustrating. > > > > Thank you, > > > > Lainey > > http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] ------------------------------------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the home page. Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com to receive the digest, which includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com for the No E-Mail option where you will still be able to read messages on the group and post replies. Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com to receive individual e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 44284	From: Donna Ransome	Date: 11/7/2009
Subject: Re: pH testers

You definitely want to grab the water before the water softener for fish. -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Lainey Alexander Sent: Saturday, November 07, 2009 5:36 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] pH testers I think the pH from the well is stable. It's all the filters that are messing up the pH. I think the main issue is the water softener. The pH seems to fluctuate a lot before and after the softener regenerates. Last night, right before the softener regenerated, the pH at the tap was 7.4. This morning, after regeneration was finished, I got 8.1. Go figure! I have tried many times to "get off" the softener and have concluded that with my water, it can't be done. I actually purchase Berkshire Mountain Spring water for human drinking, but feel that this is too expensive and cumbersome for the fish, poor things. Anyway, I will figure this out one way or another and appreciate all the input. Thanks again, Lainey http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com On Nov 7, 2009, at 5:31 PM, Steve Szabo wrote: > Lainey, > > That Berkshire water is pretty strange then. Normally an aquifer is > pretty > stable in pH and minerals it contains. When I was on well water > (also in MA) > the pH was pretty stable, not varying more than =/- 0.1. My water > company > water, that I have to have now, varies more than that, since they use > several water sources depending on various factors. The types of > water they > use are reservoir water, well water, and water from the Potomac > River. I am > sure it fluctuates more than I see, because it gets treated and they > probably try to maintain a sane pH level for the sake of their pipes. > > Do you have a deep well, or a shallow well? This may be a factor in > your pH > readings showing what they do. You might want to do some poking > around to > see what you may find about your local water. Check to see if you > can find > any information about your aquifer, check with the guys who drill > the wells, > check with local water testing outfits. All may have some > information that > may be of some help. Also cruise the web sites of towns near you that > provide water for their residents (probably Pittsfield, Lee, maybe > Stockbridge, and a few others). > > You mentioned earlier the use of RO chemicals with your water. Are > you using > RO at all?, What are you taking out of the water by your filters? > What is > the pH when the process is done? Perhaps change to a different type of > filter may help control the pH problem (he says, shooting in the > dark). > > \\Steve// > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On > Behalf Of Lainey Alexander > Sent: Saturday, November 07, 2009 4:00 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] pH testers > > It's a well and the pH I am testing as it comes out of the tap but > then also over the next two days and it stays where it comes out of > the tap. Problem is, it is anywhere from 7.4 to 8.5 when it comes out > of the tap. That's why I can never get a system going, because my > levels are all over the place. Then add in the CO2 and it gets even > more confusing. > > Lainey > http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com > > On Nov 7, 2009, at 3:50 PM, Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > > > OK. Lets back up to your tap water. What do you mean by it > > "fluctuates"? > > Is this based on the right out the tap versus the 48 hour baseline > > or what? > > > > Maybe you should start a couple of 48 hour baseline tests, one > > today, one on > > Sunday and one on Monday and monitor them and their final results > > on Monday, > > Tuesday and Wednesday and let us know the beginning and end numbers > > for each > > day. > > > > Remind us about your water supply again. Public utility (and where > > do they > > get their water), well water, reservoir, etc.? > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > > (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the > > right > > side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, > > Month) > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On > > Behalf Of Lainey Alexander > > Sent: Saturday, November 07, 2009 1:58 PM > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] pH testers > > > > Hi Lenny - > > > > I understand what you are saying about CO2 causing OK pH swings, > > but the > > main problem I am having now is that my tap water apparently > > fluctuates > > between 7.4 and 8.5! I finally figured this out in the past few > > days. This > > is one reason I am being driven insane by my pH issues. > > > > I'll work it out, somehow, but for now I think I do need to monitor > > my tap > > water and its effects in the tanks. > > > > Thanks, > > > > Lainey > > http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com > > > > On Nov 7, 2009, at 2:54 PM, Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > > > > > I'm not so sure you need to be worrying about your pH as much > as you > > > may be. > > > pH changes caused by CO2 are NOT the same as pH changes caused by > > > other water chemistry factors. What you should be monitoring is > your > > > CO2 output to make sure you are not wasting CO2. Do you monitor > your > > > CO2 levels? > > > > > > While the pH may rise and fall based on the CO2 level in the > > tank, the > > > GH and KH should remain relatively constant and because these are > > > constant, the fish are not affected. For reasons not known to > me, pH > > > fluctuations caused by *normal* rising and falling CO2 levels in > > > natural waters DO NOT cause problems to fish like pH fluctuations > > > caused by other water parameter changes... too much carbonic acid > > > and/or other acids released by decaying detritus/mulm, low KH > > levels, > > > etc. This is probably part of God's plan since He knew that the > CO2 > > > levels would rise at night when plants were not taking in CO2 and > > then > > > fall during the day when the plants start sucking in the CO2 via > > > photosynthesis. > > > > > > You should make sure your CO2 is regulated properly and then start > > > testing your pH at a consistent time each day so you can then > see a > > > pattern develop. > > > For example, if you keep the CO2 levels consistent, 24 hours a > day, > > > your pH will be much lower first thing in the morning, before you > > turn > > > on your lights and then by the end of the day, after the plants > have > > > been sucking up > > > CO2 all day, the pH level will be higher. BUT... during this > entire > > > fluctuation, the GH and KH should have remained relatively > > unchanged, > > > although they will both go down over time without proper tank > > > maintenance. > > > If any of these three should crash, that would cause > osmoregulatory > > > shock issues to your fish. > > > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles > > > referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, > > alphabetically > > > under Labels and also under Archives by Year, > > > Month) > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Lainey Alexander > > > Sent: Saturday, November 07, 2009 9:57 AM > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > > Subject: [AquaticLife] pH testers > > > > > > I have the pH test kits that you run via a vial by adding drops > > and I > > > have a much more expensive probe by Milwaukee and I am not happy > > with > > > either. The vials drive me crazy because they take too long to > > set up > > > with getting the water to the right level, adding the drops, > washing > > > out the vial etc. plus I can never really tell what the reading > > is by > > > comparing to the color charts, I don't like this system at all. > And > > > the probe just isn't working. I calibrate the probe as per > > directions, > > > using some kind of calibration liquid that came with it, but each > > day > > > the probe needs to be re-calibrated and is WAY off, like > > sometimes up > > > to .7. > > > > > > Does anyone know of a better/easier way to test pH? > > > > > > I do need to monitor my pH because I have planted tanks with > > injected > > > CO2 and the pH can fluctuate. Also, my tap water pH fluctuates. > > All of > > > which means I do a lot of testing, and need some way to test that > > > won't be so cumbersome and frustrating. > > > > > > Thank you, > > > > > > Lainey > > > http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com > > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] ------------------------------------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the home page. Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com to receive the digest, which includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com for the No E-Mail option where you will still be able to read messages on the group and post replies. Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com to receive individual e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 44285	From: Lainey Alexander	Date: 11/7/2009
Subject: Re: Plants growing black hair - eek.

Amber - I don't have BB algae (yet) but in preparation: what happens to plants if you use HP? Thanks, Lainey http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com On Nov 7, 2009, at 6:35 PM, Amber Berglund wrote: > I'm sure Lenny has probably posted some links on algae by now, but > if it > is Black Beard Algae (like it sounds like to me, since I have it in > all > my tanks), you can get rid of it by using hydrogen peroxide, but > not if > you have ANY snails or shrimp, etc. Only fish. Hydrogen peroxide is > only > safe around fish, and you still should be careful not to squirt it > where > the fish are. > > Amber > > cat.rose wrote: >> >> Hey all! >> >> Things have been going good here with my 10 gal FW tank. About a >> month >> or more ago I bought sone new plants at PetSmart: don't know the name >> but they're fluffy, kind of angel hairy types, bright green. >> >> Well a couple weeks ago I was doing my PWC and noticed what looked >> like clumps of my roommate's black hair in the tank. Since I'm the >> only one who ever cleans the tank, I was very confused as to how this >> happened as I'm pretty meticulous with the tank/fish. >> >> Well, it seems these plants are "growing" long black "hair"! It >> doesn't seem like the plant is dying and turning black because the >> black hairs are much longer than the green parts. It looks kind of >> gross, and the hairs are breaking off or something cuz they're not >> just on the live plants but bits scattered around the tank too. >> >> Should I immediately take out the plants and throw them out? Can it >> hurt my fish? I'm sure it's clogging up the filter, which I probably >> need to clean now too. >> >> Looks rather frightening in there now... >> >> Thanks! >> Catherine >> >> > > > ------------------------------------ > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, > Thank You. > ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..>< > ((((º> > PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT > important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original > message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old > subject)" <- > <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><· > ´¯`·.¸¸. > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. > > If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of > unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by clicking on > "Edit My Membership" on the home page. > > Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com to receive the digest, > which includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email > > Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com for the No E-Mail > option where you will still be able to read messages on the group > and post replies. > > Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com to receive individual e- > mails.Yahoo! Groups Links > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 44286	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 11/7/2009
Subject: Re: Are micro bubbles bad for a freshwater aquarium?

We have not said that they are welcome, we have just said that there is no reason to fear them other than what may they may do--obscure your view. They are also more likely to form in salt water simply because of the chemical difference between salt water and fresh water. Are you maintaining marine tanks? The question is where do you get the information for the statement are not welcome in a refugarium? What is the basis for that statement? Lenny and I are both freshwater people. However, I do read a lot of marine material (I do not know about Lenny). I have not seen a discussion about micro-bubbles in my readings, good or bad. You do not need cite a link, you can cite a publication. If it was personal communication, let us know and talk to the person some more to find out the why behind this assertion. If it is a publication, we can probably find it, if we do not already have it, or know the right people to ask about it. \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Miquela D Sent: Saturday, November 07, 2009 7:03 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Are micro bubbles bad for a freshwater aquarium? no link no sourse. Just thinking about if since Micro Bubbles arn't welcome in a refugium are they welcome in our display tank? of Freshwater might i add. I am 2 hang on back filters one for 10-15gal the other for 20gal also 4 blue air stones. I have a 29 Gal Aquarium with glass top. i use a plastic top w/light for a 10gal. using a grow bulb and a blue bulb (from goodwill). I want to have a Refugium. I can understand them as great biofilter. Wish i could afford the style that Pet Smart have. All acrylic in 4 levels with lots of aquatic plants. Though here I am with only donated and second hand items. :( XoXo Miquela D. XoXo Dragon Roses Consulting --- On Sat, 11/7/09, Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@...> wrote: From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@...> Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Are micro bubbles bad for a freshwater aquarium? To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Date: Saturday, November 7, 2009, 5:40 PM I concur. Unless one is getting a lot of micro-bubbles forming on their tank glass after doing a PWC, I wouldn't worry about the bubble we can see in the water column. The ones that form on a tank's glass after a PWC could be a result of excessive gases in the incoming water and depending on what the gas is, this could be a problem... or not. Doing a 48 hour baseline test (see my blog article for details) on your tap water will often expose gas issues such as higher levels of CO2 coming out the tap, etc. Can you give us a link to whatever you were reading? Maybe there's something in there that would help us answer better. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com [mailto:AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com] On Behalf Of Steve Szabo Sent: Saturday, November 07, 2009 4:52 PM To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Are micro bubbles bad for a freshwater aquarium? Filters pour water into a tank do not create much, if anything, in the way of micro-bubbles, nor do air diffusers. Micro-bubbles are small, almost invisible to the naked eye, bubbles, and some may even not be seen. Micro-bubbles in refugariums may have two causes. One is the biological processes carried on in the refugarium by bacteria and plants. The other is a result of foam fractionation, where very fine bubbles are used to remove DOC's from the water. They can and do dissipate over time. What is your concern over micro-bubbles? Is this another myth in development, or is there some real concern over a specific harm they can do? The reason I ask is that micro-bubbles have been present in our tanks, especially in marine tanks because salt water is more conducive to them than fresh, for a very long time, and I have seen nothing to indicate a problem with them and the only concern has been their presence in large quantities not making for a poor viewing experience. \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com [mailto:AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com] On Behalf Of Miquela Sent: Saturday, November 07, 2009 4:42 PM To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com Subject: [AquaticLife] Are micro bubbles bad for a freshwater aquarium? I have been reading about Refugiums and that they have some sort of object to remove micro bubbles. Why do we use on the side filters that pour water back in creating micro bubbles or why do we use air defusers? I'm very confused by this. To have micro bubbles that is the question. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] ------------------------------------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. `..><((((>.`..`.><((((> .`.. , .`..><((((> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <((((><.`..`.<((((><.`.. , .`..<((((><`.. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the home page. Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com to receive the digest, which includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com for the No E-Mail option where you will still be able to read messages on the group and post replies. Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com to receive individual e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 44287	From: harry perry	Date: 11/7/2009
Subject: Re: Are micro bubbles bad for a freshwater aquarium?/Steve

I Googled Micro Bubbles in Aquarium. Unbelievable, post after post on eliminating the "micro bubble problem" but nothing on why it is a problem.  Someone decided micro bubbles are a problem and posted to the fish forums and it took off from there. Bubbles aren't a problem, period. Having said that, they are a big problem when raising sea horses. Otherwise if you want to see some beautiful bubbles. Healthy plants in a well maintained aquarium will pearl. The plants are actually giving off oxygen bubbles.  A good thing. Harry --- On Sat, 11/7/09, Steve Szabo <steve@...> wrote: From: Steve Szabo <steve@...> Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Are micro bubbles bad for a freshwater aquarium? To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Date: Saturday, November 7, 2009, 9:26 PM   We have not said that they are welcome, we have just said that there is no reason to fear them other than what may they may do--obscure your view. They are also more likely to form in salt water simply because of the chemical difference between salt water and fresh water. Are you maintaining marine tanks? The question is where do you get the information for the statement are not welcome in a refugarium? What is the basis for that statement? Lenny and I are both freshwater people. However, I do read a lot of marine material (I do not know about Lenny). I have not seen a discussion about micro-bubbles in my readings, good or bad. You do not need cite a link, you can cite a publication. If it was personal communication, let us know and talk to the person some more to find out the why behind this assertion. If it is a publication, we can probably find it, if we do not already have it, or know the right people to ask about it. \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com [mailto:AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com] On Behalf Of Miquela D Sent: Saturday, November 07, 2009 7:03 PM To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Are micro bubbles bad for a freshwater aquarium? no link no sourse. Just thinking about if since Micro Bubbles arn't welcome in a refugium are they welcome in our display tank? of Freshwater might i add. I am 2 hang on back filters one for 10-15gal the other for 20gal also 4 blue air stones. I have a 29 Gal Aquarium with glass top. i use a plastic top w/light for a 10gal. using a grow bulb and a blue bulb (from goodwill). I want to have a Refugium. I can understand them as great biofilter. Wish i could afford the style that Pet Smart have. All acrylic in 4 levels with lots of aquatic plants. Though here I am with only donated and second hand items. :( XoXo Miquela D. XoXo Dragon Roses Consulting --- On Sat, 11/7/09, Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@gmail. com> wrote: From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@gmail. com> Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Are micro bubbles bad for a freshwater aquarium? To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com Date: Saturday, November 7, 2009, 5:40 PM I concur. Unless one is getting a lot of micro-bubbles forming on their tank glass after doing a PWC, I wouldn't worry about the bubble we can see in the water column. The ones that form on a tank's glass after a PWC could be a result of excessive gases in the incoming water and depending on what the gas is, this could be a problem... or not. Doing a 48 hour baseline test (see my blog article for details) on your tap water will often expose gas issues such as higher levels of CO2 coming out the tap, etc. Can you give us a link to whatever you were reading? Maybe there's something in there that would help us answer better. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com [mailto:AquaticLife @ yahoogroups. com] On Behalf Of Steve Szabo Sent: Saturday, November 07, 2009 4:52 PM To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Are micro bubbles bad for a freshwater aquarium? Filters pour water into a tank do not create much, if anything, in the way of micro-bubbles, nor do air diffusers. Micro-bubbles are small, almost invisible to the naked eye, bubbles, and some may even not be seen. Micro-bubbles in refugariums may have two causes. One is the biological processes carried on in the refugarium by bacteria and plants. The other is a result of foam fractionation, where very fine bubbles are used to remove DOC's from the water. They can and do dissipate over time. What is your concern over micro-bubbles? Is this another myth in development, or is there some real concern over a specific harm they can do? The reason I ask is that micro-bubbles have been present in our tanks, especially in marine tanks because salt water is more conducive to them than fresh, for a very long time, and I have seen nothing to indicate a problem with them and the only concern has been their presence in large quantities not making for a poor viewing experience. \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com [mailto:AquaticLife @ yahoogroups. com] On Behalf Of Miquela Sent: Saturday, November 07, 2009 4:42 PM To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com Subject: [AquaticLife] Are micro bubbles bad for a freshwater aquarium? I have been reading about Refugiums and that they have some sort of object to remove micro bubbles. Why do we use on the side filters that pour water back in creating micro bubbles or why do we use air defusers? I'm very confused by this. To have micro bubbles that is the question. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] ------------ --------- --------- ------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. `..><((((>.` ..`.><((( (> .`.. , .`..><((((> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <((((><.`..` .<((((><. `.. , .`..<((((><` .. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the home page. Or e-mail aquaticlife- digest@yahoogrou ps.com to receive the digest, which includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email Or email aquaticlife- nomail@yahoogrou ps.com for the No E-Mail option where you will still be able to read messages on the group and post replies. Or email aquaticlife- normal@yahoogrou ps.com to receive individual e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 44288	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 11/7/2009
Subject: Re: Are micro bubbles bad for a freshwater aquarium?

Where have you been reading about this as a problem in FW systems? As \\Steve// stated, I believe this is only a problem in SW systems. I also did a Google and every thing about micro-bubbles and refugiums was related to SW and Reef tanks. On a side note, you may want to examine the "blue" bulb on your refugium light fixture as that may be an actinic light bulb which is not so helpful in FW systems. They are more for SW Coral/Inverts. You would benefit more by have two regular plant bulbs. Don't fret about your having 2nd hand and donated things.... many of us started that way and still survive that way. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Miquela D Sent: Saturday, November 07, 2009 6:03 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Are micro bubbles bad for a freshwater aquarium? no link no sourse. Just thinking about if since Micro Bubbles arn't welcome in a refugium are they welcome in our display tank? of Freshwater might i add. I am 2 hang on back filters one for 10-15gal the other for 20gal also 4 blue air stones. I have a 29 Gal Aquarium with glass top. i use a plastic top w/light for a 10gal. using a grow bulb and a blue bulb (from goodwill). I want to have a Refugium. I can understand them as great biofilter. Wish i could afford the style that Pet Smart have. All acrylic in 4 levels with lots of aquatic plants. Though here I am with only donated and second hand items. :( XoXo Miquela D. XoXo Dragon Roses Consulting --- On Sat, 11/7/09, Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@...> wrote: From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@...> Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Are micro bubbles bad for a freshwater aquarium? To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Date: Saturday, November 7, 2009, 5:40 PM   I concur. Unless one is getting a lot of micro-bubbles forming on their tank glass after doing a PWC, I wouldn't worry about the bubble we can see in the water column. The ones that form on a tank's glass after a PWC could be a result of excessive gases in the incoming water and depending on what the gas is, this could be a problem... or not. Doing a 48 hour baseline test (see my blog article for details) on your tap water will often expose gas issues such as higher levels of CO2 coming out the tap, etc. Can you give us a link to whatever you were reading? Maybe there's something in there that would help us answer better. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com [mailto:AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com] On Behalf Of Steve Szabo Sent: Saturday, November 07, 2009 4:52 PM To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Are micro bubbles bad for a freshwater aquarium? Filters pour water into a tank do not create much, if anything, in the way of micro-bubbles, nor do air diffusers. Micro-bubbles are small, almost invisible to the naked eye, bubbles, and some may even not be seen. Micro-bubbles in refugariums may have two causes. One is the biological processes carried on in the refugarium by bacteria and plants. The other is a result of foam fractionation, where very fine bubbles are used to remove DOC's from the water. They can and do dissipate over time. What is your concern over micro-bubbles? Is this another myth in development, or is there some real concern over a specific harm they can do? The reason I ask is that micro-bubbles have been present in our tanks, especially in marine tanks because salt water is more conducive to them than fresh, for a very long time, and I have seen nothing to indicate a problem with them and the only concern has been their presence in large quantities not making for a poor viewing experience. \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com [mailto:AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com] On Behalf Of Miquela Sent: Saturday, November 07, 2009 4:42 PM To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com Subject: [AquaticLife] Are micro bubbles bad for a freshwater aquarium? I have been reading about Refugiums and that they have some sort of object to remove micro bubbles. Why do we use on the side filters that pour water back in creating micro bubbles or why do we use air defusers? I'm very confused by this. To have micro bubbles that is the question.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 44289	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 11/7/2009
Subject: Re: Algae/Betta Bowl

Cool... actually a coolie hat would work on any round opening Betta bowl, can be cut to size, provide for air exchange and also fit the biotope theme! ;-) And if Kathy the college student with the 4G Betta bowl is reading this, she could also eat a common college student meal next to the bowl and still keep with the theme. Of course, I'm talking about a 10 cent pack of Ramen Noodles... leaves more money for beer! LOL Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Donna Ransome Sent: Saturday, November 07, 2009 7:56 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: Algae/Betta Bowl Can you make a shade shaped like a coolie hat and suspend it over the bowl but under the light beam? _____ From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of kuradi8 Sent: Saturday, November 07, 2009 4:10 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Algae/Betta Bowl I think we're (quote-unquote) "arguing" over wording. Just how small do you think the bowl is? The problem is the amount of bright light the bowl is exposed to throughout the day. It's under her table/reading lamp. Mom spends her days reading and watching Kala. And therefore the algae blooms. Yes, that means keeping an eye on it and a more frequent maintenance schedule. Harry's suggestion of every day seems too often and will cause the water to cycle continuously instead of stabilize. Remember that wild Bettas live in very murky rice paddies. Algae is not as objectionable to them as it is to us. ~Kai > Lenny V. wrote: > > UH OH... I see a can of worms... and I've got my can opener ready! LOL > > Yes, they "CAN" live in a bowl but that doesn't mean they should live > in a bowl. This would be analogous to saying a family of four "CAN" > live in an 8' x 8' room with a hole in the ground for a toilet... but > that doesn't mean > they *should* live in that type of home. It also doesn't mean that the > government should create another government program to give larger > homes to > people that can't afford them out of their own income. LOL > > Doing a 25% PWC every day and using a small algae scrubber on the > inside of > the glass and then siphoning the gravel at least once a week or more, > as needed, will go a long way to improving the water quality and thus lessening > the algae growth. > > Also see my other reply before this one. > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are > listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under > Archives by Year, Month) > > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com] On > Behalf Of kuradi8 > Sent: Saturday, November 07, 2009 11:06 AM > To: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > yahoogroups.com > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Algae/Betta Bowl > > Because Bettas are surface breathers, they CAN live in bowls. (Bowls > meaning they don't need aeration.) The one he's in isn't "small" but > I'm on > the lookout for a larger one or small tank, preferably at a Salvation > Army price. > > Cleaning the bowl every day would mean too much of a water change and > that would screw up his little ecosystem, having the water cycling all > the time. > ~Kai > > > > > --- Harry wrote: > > > > Clean the bowl every day and explain to Momma fish don't belong in bowls. > A small tank is cheap at Walmart. > > Harry > > > > --- On Sat, 11/7/09, Dora Smith <tiggernut24@> wrote: > > > > > > Sounds like someone has to go over to Momma's house every once in a > while and clean the bowl. > > > > Yours, > > > > Dora Smith > > > > Austin, TX > > > > tiggernut24@ yahoo.com > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > > > > I got Mom a Betta a month or two back and his bowl is under the big > > table > > > > lamp that she uses to read -- all day. So no wonder his bowl gets > > bright > > > > green with algae growth. The answer is to move his bowl but no, it's > > the > > > > most convenient place and she likes having him there. > > > > > > > > I mentioned getting a snail but someone replied that Mystery Snails > > don't > > > > eat algae -- they eat the food that falls to the bottom. But other > > posts > > > > say they DO eat algae. > > > > > > > > So which is it? And will s/he eat enough of it to keep Kala's algae > > problem > > > > kinda-sorta under control? > > > > > > > > It's not easy being greeeeeeeen. .. > > > > ~Kai

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 44290	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 11/7/2009
Subject: Re: Are micro bubbles bad for a freshwater aquarium?/Steve

This may be something like the nitrate "problem" in FW tanks. While it is nice to keep the nitrates as low as possible, they do not really become a problem for most fish until they exceed a couple of hundred parts per million, which is certainly an indicator that you have not been doing anywhere near close to proper maintenance on your tanks. Sure, there are fish that are more sensitive to nitrates, or any nitrogenous product than most, but there is no need for people to go through all kinds of gyrations to keep nitrates at 20 ppm or lower. \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of harry perry Sent: Saturday, November 07, 2009 9:45 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Are micro bubbles bad for a freshwater aquarium?/Steve I Googled Micro Bubbles in Aquarium. Unbelievable, post after post on eliminating the "micro bubble problem" but nothing on why it is a problem. Someone decided micro bubbles are a problem and posted to the fish forums and it took off from there. Bubbles aren't a problem, period. Having said that, they are a big problem when raising sea horses. Otherwise if you want to see some beautiful bubbles. Healthy plants in a well maintained aquarium will pearl. The plants are actually giving off oxygen bubbles. A good thing. Harry --- On Sat, 11/7/09, Steve Szabo <steve@...> wrote: From: Steve Szabo <steve@...> Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Are micro bubbles bad for a freshwater aquarium? To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Date: Saturday, November 7, 2009, 9:26 PM We have not said that they are welcome, we have just said that there is no reason to fear them other than what may they may do--obscure your view. They are also more likely to form in salt water simply because of the chemical difference between salt water and fresh water. Are you maintaining marine tanks? The question is where do you get the information for the statement are not welcome in a refugarium? What is the basis for that statement? Lenny and I are both freshwater people. However, I do read a lot of marine material (I do not know about Lenny). I have not seen a discussion about micro-bubbles in my readings, good or bad. You do not need cite a link, you can cite a publication. If it was personal communication, let us know and talk to the person some more to find out the why behind this assertion. If it is a publication, we can probably find it, if we do not already have it, or know the right people to ask about it. \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com [mailto:AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com] On Behalf Of Miquela D Sent: Saturday, November 07, 2009 7:03 PM To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Are micro bubbles bad for a freshwater aquarium? no link no sourse. Just thinking about if since Micro Bubbles arn't welcome in a refugium are they welcome in our display tank? of Freshwater might i add. I am 2 hang on back filters one for 10-15gal the other for 20gal also 4 blue air stones. I have a 29 Gal Aquarium with glass top. i use a plastic top w/light for a 10gal. using a grow bulb and a blue bulb (from goodwill). I want to have a Refugium. I can understand them as great biofilter. Wish i could afford the style that Pet Smart have. All acrylic in 4 levels with lots of aquatic plants. Though here I am with only donated and second hand items. :( XoXo Miquela D. XoXo Dragon Roses Consulting --- On Sat, 11/7/09, Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@gmail. com> wrote: From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@gmail. com> Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Are micro bubbles bad for a freshwater aquarium? To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com Date: Saturday, November 7, 2009, 5:40 PM I concur. Unless one is getting a lot of micro-bubbles forming on their tank glass after doing a PWC, I wouldn't worry about the bubble we can see in the water column. The ones that form on a tank's glass after a PWC could be a result of excessive gases in the incoming water and depending on what the gas is, this could be a problem... or not. Doing a 48 hour baseline test (see my blog article for details) on your tap water will often expose gas issues such as higher levels of CO2 coming out the tap, etc. Can you give us a link to whatever you were reading? Maybe there's something in there that would help us answer better. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com [mailto:AquaticLife @ yahoogroups. com] On Behalf Of Steve Szabo Sent: Saturday, November 07, 2009 4:52 PM To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Are micro bubbles bad for a freshwater aquarium? Filters pour water into a tank do not create much, if anything, in the way of micro-bubbles, nor do air diffusers. Micro-bubbles are small, almost invisible to the naked eye, bubbles, and some may even not be seen. Micro-bubbles in refugariums may have two causes. One is the biological processes carried on in the refugarium by bacteria and plants. The other is a result of foam fractionation, where very fine bubbles are used to remove DOC's from the water. They can and do dissipate over time. What is your concern over micro-bubbles? Is this another myth in development, or is there some real concern over a specific harm they can do? The reason I ask is that micro-bubbles have been present in our tanks, especially in marine tanks because salt water is more conducive to them than fresh, for a very long time, and I have seen nothing to indicate a problem with them and the only concern has been their presence in large quantities not making for a poor viewing experience. \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com [mailto:AquaticLife @ yahoogroups. com] On Behalf Of Miquela Sent: Saturday, November 07, 2009 4:42 PM To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com Subject: [AquaticLife] Are micro bubbles bad for a freshwater aquarium? I have been reading about Refugiums and that they have some sort of object to remove micro bubbles. Why do we use on the side filters that pour water back in creating micro bubbles or why do we use air defusers? I'm very confused by this. To have micro bubbles that is the question. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] ------------ --------- --------- ------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. `..><((((>.` ..`.><((( (> .`.. , .`..><((((> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <((((><.`..` .<((((><. `.. , .`..<((((><` .. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the home page. Or e-mail aquaticlife- digest@yahoogrou ps.com to receive the digest, which includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email Or email aquaticlife- nomail@yahoogrou ps.com for the No E-Mail option where you will still be able to read messages on the group and post replies. Or email aquaticlife- normal@yahoogrou ps.com to receive individual e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 44291	From: erikaandnewton	Date: 11/8/2009
Subject: Re: wisteria/lighting previous question/response revisited

you know lenny, i might just be a total moron. I might have asked that on a totally different list, maybe plant geek or something. I just copied and pasted so i could add it to my folder of fish info and have something to take to the store with me when i went plant shopping. My question is, he mentions possibly being able to find similar lights already assembled. I was wondering where i might look for them as i can't see me building a housing with a fan to put those in. or for that matter figuring out how to put the light together in the first place. erika newark de usa --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@...> wrote: > > Looks like Ray's writing to me... but I could be wrong. I regularly refer > folks to the AHSupply.com site but the rest of the post doesn't look like > mine. > > You could always Google one of the sentences and see what Google finds... > such as.... hmmmmm.. that's strange. Google didn't find any of that post. > Are you sure that was posted to the group and not just sent to you off-list? > > > How did you have all of that text but not know who gave it to you? Did you > copy/paste the info from a website or email or what??? > > What questions did you have? > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right > side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) > > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On > Behalf Of erikaandnewton > Sent: Saturday, November 07, 2009 12:28 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Subject: [AquaticLife] wisteria/lighting previous question/response > revisited > > ok, i've looked through the archives for posts made by me, and can't find > the post that this response was in reference to: > > ""First make sure that you have "water sprite" ( Ceratopteris thalictroides) > rather than Hygrophila difformis AKA "Water Wisteria"- They can be confused. > The easiest way to tell them apart is just by seeing how the new leaves > form. In true fern like way, the water sprite will unfurl a new branch and > set of leaves, while the wisteria will grow out new leaves like most plants > and trees. > For the 75 gallon, I would recommend a minimum of 100 watts of full spectrum > lighting on for at least 10 hours each day - You can build your own 3 sided > box to hold the lights inside and then mount one of these kits into them. > www.ahsupply.com ( 2 x 55 watt setup) They are very easy to put together and > very easy to repair in the future. Just make sure you get good air flow. Or > if you are not a DIY person, you can look for a good price on a similar > light that is already put together For minimal light such as 100 watts you > should stick with lower light tolerant plants Ferns - Java fern, African > Fern, Water sprite Mosses - any aquatic moss that is proven temperature > tolerant. > Anubius plants - many species to choose from Crypts - Many species to choose > from Some of the Hygrophilia species are worth a try including wisteria"" > > who gave me this information please? I have some more questions about the > lighting system, which i can either ask on list or off list, and am driving > my self bonkers looking for who provided the info in the first place!! > > erika newark de usa >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 44292	From: bill 1433	Date: 11/8/2009
Subject: Re: wisteria/lighting previous question/response revisited

We must be on the same groups Erika. I can remember the post but not the "who" or "where" part of it. As I recall he also mentions about building his own lights and how. I lost the post and his link too! Bill --- On Sun, 11/8/09, erikaandnewton <e.isme@...> wrote: > From: erikaandnewton <e.isme@...> > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: wisteria/lighting previous question/response revisited > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Date: Sunday, November 8, 2009, 6:34 AM > > you know lenny, i might just be a total moron. I might have > asked that on a totally different list, maybe plant geek or > something. I just copied and pasted so i could add it to my > folder of fish info and have something to take to the store > with me when i went plant shopping. > My question is, he mentions possibly being able to find > similar lights already assembled. I was wondering where i > might look for them as i can't see me building a housing > with a fan to put those in. or for that matter figuring out > how to put the light together in the first place. > > erika newark de usa  > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, > "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@...> wrote: > > > > Looks like Ray's writing to me... but I could be > wrong.  I regularly refer > > folks to the AHSupply.com site but the rest of the > post doesn't look like > > mine.  > > > > You could always Google one of the sentences and see > what Google finds... > > such as.... hmmmmm.. that's strange.  Google > didn't find any of that post. > > Are you sure that was posted to the group and not just > sent to you off-list? > > > > > > How did you have all of that text but not know who > gave it to you?  Did you > > copy/paste the info from a website or email or > what??? > > > > What questions did you have? > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > > (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are > listed on the right > > side, alphabetically under Labels and also under > Archives by Year, Month) > > > > > >  > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] > On > > Behalf Of erikaandnewton > > Sent: Saturday, November 07, 2009 12:28 PM > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > Subject: [AquaticLife] wisteria/lighting previous > question/response > > revisited > > > > ok, i've looked through the archives for posts made by > me, and can't find > > the post that this response was in reference to: > > > > ""First make sure that you have "water sprite" ( > Ceratopteris thalictroides) > > rather than Hygrophila difformis AKA "Water Wisteria"- > They can be confused. > > The easiest way to tell them apart is just by seeing > how the new leaves > > form. In true fern like way, the water sprite will > unfurl a new branch and > > set of leaves, while the wisteria will grow out new > leaves like most plants > > and trees. > > For the 75 gallon, I would recommend a minimum of 100 > watts of full spectrum > > lighting on for at least 10 hours each day - You can > build your own 3 sided > > box to hold the lights inside and then mount one of > these kits into them. > > www.ahsupply.com ( 2 x 55 watt setup) They are very > easy to put together and > > very easy to repair in the future. Just make sure you > get good air flow. Or > > if you are not a DIY person, you can look for a good > price on a similar > > light that is already put together For minimal light > such as 100 watts you > > should stick with lower light tolerant plants Ferns - > Java fern, African > > Fern, Water sprite Mosses - any aquatic moss that is > proven temperature > > tolerant. > > Anubius plants - many species to choose from Crypts - > Many species to choose > > from Some of the Hygrophilia species are worth a try > including wisteria"" > > > > who gave me this information please? I have some more > questions about the > > lighting system, which i can either ask on list or off > list, and am driving > > my self bonkers looking for who provided the info in > the first place!! > > > > erika newark de usa > > > > > > > ------------------------------------ > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when > replying, Thank You. > ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> > ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> > PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is > NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of > the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new > subject (was re: old subject)" <- > <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. > , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. > > If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of > unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by > clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the home page.  > > Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com > to receive the digest, which includes up to 25 posts at a > time in a single email > > Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com > for the No E-Mail option where you will still be able to > read messages on the group and post replies. > > Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com > to receive individual e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links > > >     AquaticLife-fullfeatured@yahoogroups.com > > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 44293	From: kuradi8	Date: 11/8/2009
Subject: Re: Algae/Betta Bowl

Tee hee, yeah a coolie hat would look "coolie!" But nah... Mom has enough (say this in your best Brooklyn accent) STUFF on her table. ~Kai --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@...> wrote: > > Cool... actually a coolie hat would work on any round opening Betta bowl, > can be cut to size, provide for air exchange and also fit the biotope theme! > ;-) > > And if Kathy the college student with the 4G Betta bowl is reading this, she > could also eat a common college student meal next to the bowl and still keep > with the theme. Of course, I'm talking about a 10 cent pack of Ramen > Noodles... leaves more money for beer! LOL > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right > side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) > > > -----Original Message----- > Donna wrote: > > Can you make a shade shaped like a coolie hat and suspend it over the bowl > but under the light beam? > > > > _____ > > > Kai wrote: > > I think we're (quote-unquote) "arguing" over wording. Just how small do you > think the bowl is? > > The problem is the amount of bright light the bowl is exposed to throughout > the day. It's under her table/reading lamp. Mom spends her days reading and > watching Kala. And therefore the algae blooms. > > Yes, that means keeping an eye on it and a more frequent maintenance > schedule. Harry's suggestion of every day seems too often and will cause the > water to cycle continuously instead of stabilize. Remember that wild Bettas > live in very murky rice paddies. Algae is not as objectionable to them as it > is to us. > ~Kai > > > Lenny V. wrote: > > > > UH OH... I see a can of worms... and I've got my can opener ready! LOL > > > > Yes, they "CAN" live in a bowl but that doesn't mean they should live > > in a bowl. This would be analogous to saying a family of four "CAN" > > live in an 8' x 8' room with a hole in the ground for a toilet... but > > that doesn't > mean > > they *should* live in that type of home. It also doesn't mean that the > > government should create another government program to give larger > > homes > to > > people that can't afford them out of their own income. LOL > > > > Doing a 25% PWC every day and using a small algae scrubber on the > > inside > of > > the glass and then siphoning the gravel at least once a week or more, > > as needed, will go a long way to improving the water quality and thus > lessening > > the algae growth. > > > > Also see my other reply before this one. > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are > > listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under > > Archives by Year, Month) > > > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > Kai wrote: > > > > Because Bettas are surface breathers, they CAN live in bowls. (Bowls > > meaning they don't need aeration.) The one he's in isn't "small" but > > I'm > on > > the lookout for a larger one or small tank, preferably at a Salvation > > Army price. > > > > Cleaning the bowl every day would mean too much of a water change and > > that would screw up his little ecosystem, having the water cycling all > > the > time. > > ~Kai > > > > > > > > > > --- Harry wrote: > > > > > > Clean the bowl every day and explain to Momma fish don't belong in > bowls. > > A small tank is cheap at Walmart. > > > Harry > > > > > > --- On Sat, 11/7/09, Dora Smith <tiggernut24@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > Sounds like someone has to go over to Momma's house every once in a > > while and clean the bowl. > > > > > > Yours, > > > > > > Dora Smith > > > > > > Austin, TX > > > > > > tiggernut24@ yahoo.com > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > > > > > > > I got Mom a Betta a month or two back and his bowl is under the big > > > table > > > > > > lamp that she uses to read -- all day. So no wonder his bowl gets > > > bright > > > > > > green with algae growth. The answer is to move his bowl but no, it's > > > the > > > > > > most convenient place and she likes having him there. > > > > > > > > > > > > I mentioned getting a snail but someone replied that Mystery Snails > > > don't > > > > > > eat algae -- they eat the food that falls to the bottom. But other > > > posts > > > > > > say they DO eat algae. > > > > > > > > > > > > So which is it? And will s/he eat enough of it to keep Kala's algae > > > problem > > > > > > kinda-sorta under control? > > > > > > > > > > > > It's not easy being greeeeeeeen. .. > > > > > > ~Kai >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 44294	From: kuradi8	Date: 11/8/2009
Subject: Snail Questions

I got snails for my Bettas. The Mystery Snails didn't look very healthy so I got a Blue Snail for Mom's Betta and an Ivory Snail for each of mine. Mom's Blue Snail is VERY active. He motors around the bowl, up and down the sides. When he climbs, mom's Betta gets VERY agitated. He flares and darts and pecks at the snail. Kala is a young crowntail so no wonder he's such a bully. Hopefully he'll stop soon. My two Ivory Snails are noticeably less active. Chow Mein's snail moves around the bottom and climbs a little before heading back down. Sweet and Sour's snail, however, is lethargic. He moves much more slowly. Is he just lazy? Or still traumatized from the trip home? (Time will tell, I guess.) Neither of my fish are particularly interested in their new roomies. Snail questions: The shells of the Ivory Snails are quite translucent and I can see an air bubble in each. How do they breathe? Do they eventually head up to the surface and replace the air in their shells? If so, how often do they do that? And what do they eat? Just algae and uneaten Betta food? Should I drop them a spirulina disk once in a while? A few grains of sinking catfish food? Something else? What else do I need to know? ~Kai

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 44295	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 11/8/2009
Subject: Re: wisteria/lighting previous question/response revisited

The cheapest way to add lighting to a tank is to buy a basic shop-light type fixture (sold at hardware and big-box home repair stores). They usually sell these in 2', 3' and 4' lengths and the 4' is probably the cheapest since it's the most common and more mass produced. This is what I have on my 4' long, 65G goldfish, planted tank. I'll eventually build a canopy (which is the fancy name for the wooden box that goes on the top of an aquarium that usually matches the stand and covers up all the lighting fixtures, etc.) but it's not necessary for the lighting to be effective. I got a 4' white shop light fixture on sale for $12.99 and then bought the two 45W, T-8 bulbs for about $5.00 each so I got my 90 watts of regular fluorescent lighting for under $25.00. Before installing the shop light, you could also buy a low-cost can of black spray paint and paint the exterior of the shop light to make it black (if you wanted) but keep the inside white for reflective purposes. Here's a couple at Sears for $14.99... http://www.sears.com/shc/s/p_10153_12605_03489032000P http://www.sears.com/shc/s/p_10153_12605_03489033000P If you have a plastic or plexiglass tank cover, this can just be set right down on top of the cover so you do not have to try and suspend them like shown in the images. If you do not already have a clear plastic cover, you can get the prism-type plastic like you see in the ceilings of offices and elevators really cheap at your local big-box home repair store. They come in different sizes and you can score/cut it to fit your tank top and also cut out slots for your filters, etc. How tall is your 75G tank? If it's really tall, then standard fluorescent lighting (above) may not be suitable and you would have to move up to more expensive HO, VHO or CFL lighting. I'm still surprised that your previous text didn't show up on Google search but it could just be that the site where you posted/received the info hasn't been crawled by the search engines. I just re-did the search with DogPile and still did not get any hits. BTW, DogPile.com does a search of Google, Yahoo, Bing and Ask and compiles the results, so none of the major search engines have crawled whatever site you got that from. Unless you got that really recently, I'm suspecting it was via a private email sent only to you and not posted online. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of erikaandnewton Sent: Sunday, November 08, 2009 5:34 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: wisteria/lighting previous question/response revisited you know lenny, i might just be a total moron. I might have asked that on a totally different list, maybe plant geek or something. I just copied and pasted so i could add it to my folder of fish info and have something to take to the store with me when i went plant shopping. My question is, he mentions possibly being able to find similar lights already assembled. I was wondering where i might look for them as i can't see me building a housing with a fan to put those in. or for that matter figuring out how to put the light together in the first place. erika newark de usa --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@...> wrote: > > Looks like Ray's writing to me... but I could be wrong. I regularly > refer folks to the AHSupply.com site but the rest of the post doesn't > look like mine. > > You could always Google one of the sentences and see what Google finds... > such as.... hmmmmm.. that's strange. Google didn't find any of that post. > Are you sure that was posted to the group and not just sent to you off-list? > > > How did you have all of that text but not know who gave it to you? > Did you copy/paste the info from a website or email or what??? > > What questions did you have? > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles > referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically > under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) > > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] > On Behalf Of erikaandnewton > Sent: Saturday, November 07, 2009 12:28 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Subject: [AquaticLife] wisteria/lighting previous question/response > revisited > > ok, i've looked through the archives for posts made by me, and can't > find the post that this response was in reference to: > > ""First make sure that you have "water sprite" ( Ceratopteris > thalictroides) rather than Hygrophila difformis AKA "Water Wisteria"- They can be confused. > The easiest way to tell them apart is just by seeing how the new > leaves form. In true fern like way, the water sprite will unfurl a new > branch and set of leaves, while the wisteria will grow out new leaves > like most plants and trees. > For the 75 gallon, I would recommend a minimum of 100 watts of full > spectrum lighting on for at least 10 hours each day - You can build > your own 3 sided box to hold the lights inside and then mount one of these kits into them. > www.ahsupply.com ( 2 x 55 watt setup) They are very easy to put > together and very easy to repair in the future. Just make sure you get > good air flow. Or if you are not a DIY person, you can look for a good > price on a similar light that is already put together For minimal > light such as 100 watts you should stick with lower light tolerant > plants Ferns - Java fern, African Fern, Water sprite Mosses - any > aquatic moss that is proven temperature tolerant. > Anubius plants - many species to choose from Crypts - Many species to > choose from Some of the Hygrophilia species are worth a try including wisteria"" > > who gave me this information please? I have some more questions about > the lighting system, which i can either ask on list or off list, and > am driving my self bonkers looking for who provided the info in the first place!! > > erika newark de usa

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 44296	From: toddswoman496861@aim.com	Date: 11/8/2009
Subject: Re: just curious.

That I will be. on the dalmation mollies they have a tail that is pointed and long at ends and curves in. what kind of tail is that and the others have a round tail what kind of tail would that be? Kate Dale -----Original Message----- From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@...> To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Sat, Nov 7, 2009 4:39 pm Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] just curious. Countless color variations if you consider all the various calico color schemes that abound due to all of the selective inbreeding that has been done to create the fancy color schemes. There aren't many *natural* mollies being sold in pet stores any longer. Read more about Mollies and other livebearers here... including descriptions of their many *natural* color schemes in the wild. http://fish.mongabay.com/poeciliidae.htm Dalmatian mollies are a hybrid/inbreed to get the dalmatian (black spotted) look. If you want *natural* colored mollies, even if they are being bred now and not actually caught from the wild, you might want to check on Aquabid or join the American Livebearers Association and they probably have people there that breed them. Bear in mind that many of these hybrids and inbred fish, to come up with these fancy color schemes, have a lot more health issues compared to natural fish. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of toddswoman496861@... Sent: Saturday, November 07, 2009 2:58 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] just curious. Until the other day, I had only seen and heard of black mollies. I then saw some silver mollies and Dalmation mollies. How many colorations of mollies are there? Kate Dale ------------------------------------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the home page. Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com to receive the digest, which includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com for the No E-Mail option where you will still be able to read messages on the group and post replies. Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com to receive individual e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 44297	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 11/8/2009
Subject: Re: wisteria/lighting previous question/response revisited

After sending that previous reply, I see this 48" shop light from Sears for only $9.99. http://www.sears.com/shc/s/p_10153_12605_03489034000P The Sears.com site doesn't say it directly but bulbs are sold separately. They can be purchased pretty cheaply at a Walmart SuperCenter or big-box home repair store. The T-8 bulbs (instead of the T-12's) cost a little more but put out more lumens, if I'm not mistaken. Depending on how many watts you need/want, you could go with two 32W or 40W bulbs. If you need more lighting, then go with two shop light fixtures and four bulbs. One shop light with two 40W bulbs give PLENTY of lighting for my 65G tank (48" x 18" x 17" tall) but a taller tank would need more lighting or stronger lighting to get through the deeper water. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of erikaandnewton Sent: Sunday, November 08, 2009 5:34 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: wisteria/lighting previous question/response revisited you know lenny, i might just be a total moron. I might have asked that on a totally different list, maybe plant geek or something. I just copied and pasted so i could add it to my folder of fish info and have something to take to the store with me when i went plant shopping. My question is, he mentions possibly being able to find similar lights already assembled. I was wondering where i might look for them as i can't see me building a housing with a fan to put those in. or for that matter figuring out how to put the light together in the first place. erika newark de usa --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@...> wrote: > > Looks like Ray's writing to me... but I could be wrong. I regularly > refer folks to the AHSupply.com site but the rest of the post doesn't > look like mine. > > You could always Google one of the sentences and see what Google finds... > such as.... hmmmmm.. that's strange. Google didn't find any of that post. > Are you sure that was posted to the group and not just sent to you off-list? > > > How did you have all of that text but not know who gave it to you? > Did you copy/paste the info from a website or email or what??? > > What questions did you have? > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles > referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically > under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) > > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] > On Behalf Of erikaandnewton > Sent: Saturday, November 07, 2009 12:28 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Subject: [AquaticLife] wisteria/lighting previous question/response > revisited > > ok, i've looked through the archives for posts made by me, and can't > find the post that this response was in reference to: > > ""First make sure that you have "water sprite" ( Ceratopteris > thalictroides) rather than Hygrophila difformis AKA "Water Wisteria"- They can be confused. > The easiest way to tell them apart is just by seeing how the new > leaves form. In true fern like way, the water sprite will unfurl a new > branch and set of leaves, while the wisteria will grow out new leaves > like most plants and trees. > For the 75 gallon, I would recommend a minimum of 100 watts of full > spectrum lighting on for at least 10 hours each day - You can build > your own 3 sided box to hold the lights inside and then mount one of these kits into them. > www.ahsupply.com ( 2 x 55 watt setup) They are very easy to put > together and very easy to repair in the future. Just make sure you get > good air flow. Or if you are not a DIY person, you can look for a good > price on a similar light that is already put together For minimal > light such as 100 watts you should stick with lower light tolerant > plants Ferns - Java fern, African Fern, Water sprite Mosses - any > aquatic moss that is proven temperature tolerant. > Anubius plants - many species to choose from Crypts - Many species to > choose from Some of the Hygrophilia species are worth a try including wisteria"" > > who gave me this information please? I have some more questions about > the lighting system, which i can either ask on list or off list, and > am driving my self bonkers looking for who provided the info in the first place!! > > erika newark de usa

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 44298	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 11/8/2009
Subject: Re: wisteria/lighting previous question/response revisited

Well at least, we now know it was a recent post, which is why it's not showing up on the search engines yet. Ol' Bill couldn't have remembered it if it was too long ago. LOL Sorry Bill... couldn't resist! LOL The link to the commonly referred DIY aquarium lighting site is http://www.AHSupply.com Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of bill 1433 Sent: Sunday, November 08, 2009 8:08 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: wisteria/lighting previous question/response revisited We must be on the same groups Erika. I can remember the post but not the "who" or "where" part of it. As I recall he also mentions about building his own lights and how. I lost the post and his link too! Bill --- On Sun, 11/8/09, erikaandnewton <e.isme@...> wrote: > From: erikaandnewton <e.isme@...> > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: wisteria/lighting previous > question/response revisited > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Date: Sunday, November 8, 2009, 6:34 AM > > you know lenny, i might just be a total moron. I might have asked that > on a totally different list, maybe plant geek or something. I just > copied and pasted so i could add it to my folder of fish info and have > something to take to the store with me when i went plant shopping. > My question is, he mentions possibly being able to find similar lights > already assembled. I was wondering where i might look for them as i > can't see me building a housing with a fan to put those in. or for > that matter figuring out how to put the light together in the first > place. > > erika newark de usa > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, > "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@...> wrote: > > > > Looks like Ray's writing to me... but I could be > wrong.  I regularly refer > > folks to the AHSupply.com site but the rest of the > post doesn't look like > > mine. > > > > You could always Google one of the sentences and see > what Google finds... > > such as.... hmmmmm.. that's strange.  Google > didn't find any of that post. > > Are you sure that was posted to the group and not just > sent to you off-list? > > > > > > How did you have all of that text but not know who > gave it to you?  Did you > > copy/paste the info from a website or email or > what??? > > > > What questions did you have? > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles > > referenced in above reply are > listed on the right > > side, alphabetically under Labels and also under > Archives by Year, Month) > > > > > >  > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] > On > > Behalf Of erikaandnewton > > Sent: Saturday, November 07, 2009 12:28 PM > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > Subject: [AquaticLife] wisteria/lighting previous > question/response > > revisited > > > > ok, i've looked through the archives for posts made by > me, and can't find > > the post that this response was in reference to: > > > > ""First make sure that you have "water sprite" ( > Ceratopteris thalictroides) > > rather than Hygrophila difformis AKA "Water Wisteria"- > They can be confused. > > The easiest way to tell them apart is just by seeing > how the new leaves > > form. In true fern like way, the water sprite will > unfurl a new branch and > > set of leaves, while the wisteria will grow out new > leaves like most plants > > and trees. > > For the 75 gallon, I would recommend a minimum of 100 > watts of full spectrum > > lighting on for at least 10 hours each day - You can > build your own 3 sided > > box to hold the lights inside and then mount one of > these kits into them. > > www.ahsupply.com ( 2 x 55 watt setup) They are very > easy to put together and > > very easy to repair in the future. Just make sure you > get good air flow. Or > > if you are not a DIY person, you can look for a good > price on a similar > > light that is already put together For minimal light > such as 100 watts you > > should stick with lower light tolerant plants Ferns - > Java fern, African > > Fern, Water sprite Mosses - any aquatic moss that is > proven temperature > > tolerant. > > Anubius plants - many species to choose from Crypts - > Many species to choose > > from Some of the Hygrophilia species are worth a try > including wisteria"" > > > > who gave me this information please? I have some more > questions about the > > lighting system, which i can either ask on list or off > list, and am driving > > my self bonkers looking for who provided the info in > the first place!! > > > > erika newark de usa

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 44299	From: Dora Smith	Date: 11/8/2009
Subject: Re: Algae/Betta Bowl/Dora/again

I eventually figured out that's what he meant. At first I thought he was playing with me. Yours, Dora Smith Austin, TX tiggernut24@... ----- Original Message ----- From: "kuradi8" <kuradi8@...> To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Saturday, November 07, 2009 2:03 PM Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Algae/Betta Bowl/Dora/again Yeah! Horny bubbles! Male Bettas are Mr Moms and they blow bubble nests indicating that conditions are favorable enough for them to want to bring small fry into their worlds. In other words, they're happy. ~Kai > Harry wrote: > > Horny bubbles ???? I best not go there. > Harry > > Kai wrote: > > Fins are up, fish are active and there are "happy (horny) bubbles" > on the surface of the water. > > :o) > > ~Kai > > > > > Harry wrote: > > > > How do you know the fish is happy?. > > ------------------------------------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the home page. Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com to receive the digest, which includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com for the No E-Mail option where you will still be able to read messages on the group and post replies. Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com to receive individual e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 44300	From: Christine	Date: 11/8/2009
Subject: Something different....

I'm working on setting up a 20 gal high aquarium I saved from the dumpster. It has a Whisper power filter (30-60gal), a regular hood with the small aquarium bulbs, air stones, etc. I'm looking for a species that is interesting, maybe a little odd, and affordable. Does anyone have any suggestions? So far the species I have living in my house are fancy goldfish, bettas, dragonfish, and a turtle.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 44301	From: Dora Smith	Date: 11/8/2009
Subject: Re: [Bulk] RE: [AquaticLife] Re: Algae/Betta Bowl

My betta lives in a bowl, and he's STAYING in a bowl, Lennie, END OF SUBJECT. Yours, Dora Smith Austin, TX tiggernut24@... ----- Original Message ----- From: "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@...> To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Saturday, November 07, 2009 2:17 PM Subject: [Bulk] RE: [AquaticLife] Re: Algae/Betta Bowl UH OH... I see a can of worms... and I've got my can opener ready! LOL Yes, they "CAN" live in a bowl but that doesn't mean they should live in a bowl. This would be analogous to saying a family of four "CAN" live in an 8' x 8' room with a hole in the ground for a toilet... but that doesn't mean they *should* live in that type of home. It also doesn't mean that the government should create another government program to give larger homes to people that can't afford them out of their own income. LOL Doing a 25% PWC every day and using a small algae scrubber on the inside of the glass and then siphoning the gravel at least once a week or more, as needed, will go a long way to improving the water quality and thus lessening the algae growth. Also see my other reply before this one. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of kuradi8 Sent: Saturday, November 07, 2009 11:06 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Algae/Betta Bowl Because Bettas are surface breathers, they CAN live in bowls. (Bowls meaning they don't need aeration.) The one he's in isn't "small" but I'm on the lookout for a larger one or small tank, preferably at a Salvation Army price. Cleaning the bowl every day would mean too much of a water change and that would screw up his little ecosystem, having the water cycling all the time. ~Kai --- Harry wrote: > > Clean the bowl every day and explain to Momma fish don't belong in bowls. A small tank is cheap at Walmart. > Harry > > --- On Sat, 11/7/09, Dora Smith <tiggernut24@...> wrote: > > > Sounds like someone has to go over to Momma's house every once in a while and clean the bowl. > > Yours, > > Dora Smith > > Austin, TX > > tiggernut24@ yahoo.com > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > I got Mom a Betta a month or two back and his bowl is under the big > table > > lamp that she uses to read -- all day. So no wonder his bowl gets > bright > > green with algae growth. The answer is to move his bowl but no, it's > the > > most convenient place and she likes having him there. > > > > I mentioned getting a snail but someone replied that Mystery Snails > don't > > eat algae -- they eat the food that falls to the bottom. But other > posts > > say they DO eat algae. > > > > So which is it? And will s/he eat enough of it to keep Kala's algae > problem > > kinda-sorta under control? > > > > It's not easy being greeeeeeeen. .. > > ~Kai ------------------------------------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the home page. Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com to receive the digest, which includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com for the No E-Mail option where you will still be able to read messages on the group and post replies. Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com to receive individual e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 44302	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 11/8/2009
Subject: Re: just curious.

Kate. The first tail you ask about, the one with the extended caudal rays at the top and bottom would be called a lyre tail. I do not know that there is a specific name for the normal type tail as you describe in comparison to the lyre tail form. \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of toddswoman496861@... Sent: Sunday, November 08, 2009 12:48 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] just curious. That I will be. on the dalmation mollies they have a tail that is pointed and long at ends and curves in. what kind of tail is that and the others have a round tail what kind of tail would that be? Kate Dale -----Original Message----- From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@...> To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Sat, Nov 7, 2009 4:39 pm Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] just curious. Countless color variations if you consider all the various calico color schemes that abound due to all of the selective inbreeding that has been done to create the fancy color schemes. There aren't many *natural* mollies being sold in pet stores any longer. Read more about Mollies and other livebearers here... including descriptions of their many *natural* color schemes in the wild. http://fish.mongabay.com/poeciliidae.htm Dalmatian mollies are a hybrid/inbreed to get the dalmatian (black spotted) look. If you want *natural* colored mollies, even if they are being bred now and not actually caught from the wild, you might want to check on Aquabid or join the American Livebearers Association and they probably have people there that breed them. Bear in mind that many of these hybrids and inbred fish, to come up with these fancy color schemes, have a lot more health issues compared to natural fish. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of toddswoman496861@... Sent: Saturday, November 07, 2009 2:58 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] just curious. Until the other day, I had only seen and heard of black mollies. I then saw some silver mollies and Dalmation mollies. How many colorations of mollies are there? Kate Dale

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 44303	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 11/8/2009
Subject: Re: Snail Questions

Are all of these still "Mystery Snails"? They come in many colors. Contact your store and see if they know the actual scientific names for the snails they sold you. You can also go to http://www.applesnail.net/content/species_genera.htm and http://www.applesnail.net/content/various/recognize.htm and if yours aren't *exactly* like these, then they are not Mystery Snails which are a smaller species of the Apple Snail family. This page will help you identify your snails if they are not Mystery Snails. http://www.applesnail.net/content/snails_various.php Once you have your snails identified, then feeding can be determined. If you do not have hard water, you may have to increase the calcium carbonate (KH) level in the water and/or food of the snails so they get sufficient calcium for their shells. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of kuradi8 Sent: Sunday, November 08, 2009 11:20 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Snail Questions I got snails for my Bettas. The Mystery Snails didn't look very healthy so I got a Blue Snail for Mom's Betta and an Ivory Snail for each of mine. Mom's Blue Snail is VERY active. He motors around the bowl, up and down the sides. When he climbs, mom's Betta gets VERY agitated. He flares and darts and pecks at the snail. Kala is a young crowntail so no wonder he's such a bully. Hopefully he'll stop soon. My two Ivory Snails are noticeably less active. Chow Mein's snail moves around the bottom and climbs a little before heading back down. Sweet and Sour's snail, however, is lethargic. He moves much more slowly. Is he just lazy? Or still traumatized from the trip home? (Time will tell, I guess.) Neither of my fish are particularly interested in their new roomies. Snail questions: The shells of the Ivory Snails are quite translucent and I can see an air bubble in each. How do they breathe? Do they eventually head up to the surface and replace the air in their shells? If so, how often do they do that? And what do they eat? Just algae and uneaten Betta food? Should I drop them a spirulina disk once in a while? A few grains of sinking catfish food? Something else? What else do I need to know? ~Kai

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 44304	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 11/8/2009
Subject: Re: [Bulk] RE: [AquaticLife] Re: Algae/Betta Bowl

Ummmm... it's Lenny and there's never an end to a subject as long as someone else wants to reply. You ain't my momma... thank God! Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Dora Smith Sent: Sunday, November 08, 2009 7:38 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [Bulk] RE: [AquaticLife] Re: Algae/Betta Bowl My betta lives in a bowl, and he's STAYING in a bowl, Lennie, END OF SUBJECT. Yours, Dora Smith Austin, TX tiggernut24@... ----- Original Message ----- From: "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@...> To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Saturday, November 07, 2009 2:17 PM Subject: [Bulk] RE: [AquaticLife] Re: Algae/Betta Bowl UH OH... I see a can of worms... and I've got my can opener ready! LOL Yes, they "CAN" live in a bowl but that doesn't mean they should live in a bowl. This would be analogous to saying a family of four "CAN" live in an 8' x 8' room with a hole in the ground for a toilet... but that doesn't mean they *should* live in that type of home. It also doesn't mean that the government should create another government program to give larger homes to people that can't afford them out of their own income. LOL Doing a 25% PWC every day and using a small algae scrubber on the inside of the glass and then siphoning the gravel at least once a week or more, as needed, will go a long way to improving the water quality and thus lessening the algae growth. Also see my other reply before this one. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of kuradi8 Sent: Saturday, November 07, 2009 11:06 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Algae/Betta Bowl Because Bettas are surface breathers, they CAN live in bowls. (Bowls meaning they don't need aeration.) The one he's in isn't "small" but I'm on the lookout for a larger one or small tank, preferably at a Salvation Army price. Cleaning the bowl every day would mean too much of a water change and that would screw up his little ecosystem, having the water cycling all the time. ~Kai --- Harry wrote: > > Clean the bowl every day and explain to Momma fish don't belong in bowls. A small tank is cheap at Walmart. > Harry > > --- On Sat, 11/7/09, Dora Smith <tiggernut24@...> wrote: > > > Sounds like someone has to go over to Momma's house every once in a while and clean the bowl. > > Yours, > > Dora Smith > > Austin, TX > > tiggernut24@ yahoo.com > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > I got Mom a Betta a month or two back and his bowl is under the big > table > > lamp that she uses to read -- all day. So no wonder his bowl gets > bright > > green with algae growth. The answer is to move his bowl but no, it's > the > > most convenient place and she likes having him there. > > > > I mentioned getting a snail but someone replied that Mystery Snails > don't > > eat algae -- they eat the food that falls to the bottom. But other > posts > > say they DO eat algae. > > > > So which is it? And will s/he eat enough of it to keep Kala's algae > problem > > kinda-sorta under control? > > > > It's not easy being greeeeeeeen. .. > > ~Kai ------------------------------------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the home page. Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com to receive the digest, which includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com for the No E-Mail option where you will still be able to read messages on the group and post replies. Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com to receive individual e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links ------------------------------------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the home page. Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com to receive the digest, which includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com for the No E-Mail option where you will still be able to read messages on the group and post replies. Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com to receive individual e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 44305	From: Cheryl Ellison	Date: 11/8/2009
Subject: Re: wisteria/lighting previous question/response revisited

The problem with that kind of lighting is it isn't in the right spectrum, you are asking for trouble as far as nuisance algae and the plants need a different spectrum to thrive. Here is a link about lighting: http://www.rexgrigg.com/light.html Cheryl from Seattle http://cherylshtuff.blogspot.com/ ----- Original Message ----- From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Sunday, November 08, 2009 9:42 AM Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: wisteria/lighting previous question/response revisited The cheapest way to add lighting to a tank is to buy a basic shop-light type fixture (sold at hardware and big-box home repair stores). They usually sell these in 2', 3' and 4' lengths and the 4' is probably the cheapest since it's the most common and more mass produced. This is what I have on my 4' long, 65G goldfish, planted tank. I'll eventually build a canopy (which is the fancy name for the wooden box that goes on the top of an aquarium that usually matches the stand and covers up all the lighting fixtures, etc.) but it's not necessary for the lighting to be effective. I got a 4' white shop light fixture on sale for $12.99 and then bought the two 45W, T-8 bulbs for about $5.00 each so I got my 90 watts of regular fluorescent lighting for under $25.00. Before installing the shop light, you could also buy a low-cost can of black spray paint and paint the exterior of the shop light to make it black (if you wanted) but keep the inside white for reflective purposes. Here's a couple at Sears for $14.99... http://www.sears.com/shc/s/p_10153_12605_03489032000P http://www.sears.com/shc/s/p_10153_12605_03489033000P If you have a plastic or plexiglass tank cover, this can just be set right down on top of the cover so you do not have to try and suspend them like shown in the images. If you do not already have a clear plastic cover, you can get the prism-type plastic like you see in the ceilings of offices and elevators really cheap at your local big-box home repair store. They come in different sizes and you can score/cut it to fit your tank top and also cut out slots for your filters, etc. How tall is your 75G tank? If it's really tall, then standard fluorescent lighting (above) may not be suitable and you would have to move up to more expensive HO, VHO or CFL lighting. I'm still surprised that your previous text didn't show up on Google search but it could just be that the site where you posted/received the info hasn't been crawled by the search engines. I just re-did the search with DogPile and still did not get any hits. BTW, DogPile.com does a search of Google, Yahoo, Bing and Ask and compiles the results, so none of the major search engines have crawled whatever site you got that from. Unless you got that really recently, I'm suspecting it was via a private email sent only to you and not posted online. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of erikaandnewton Sent: Sunday, November 08, 2009 5:34 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: wisteria/lighting previous question/response revisited you know lenny, i might just be a total moron. I might have asked that on a totally different list, maybe plant geek or something. I just copied and pasted so i could add it to my folder of fish info and have something to take to the store with me when i went plant shopping. My question is, he mentions possibly being able to find similar lights already assembled. I was wondering where i might look for them as i can't see me building a housing with a fan to put those in. or for that matter figuring out how to put the light together in the first place. erika newark de usa --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@...> wrote: > > Looks like Ray's writing to me... but I could be wrong. I regularly > refer folks to the AHSupply.com site but the rest of the post doesn't > look like mine. > > You could always Google one of the sentences and see what Google finds... > such as.... hmmmmm.. that's strange. Google didn't find any of that post. > Are you sure that was posted to the group and not just sent to you off-list? > > > How did you have all of that text but not know who gave it to you? > Did you copy/paste the info from a website or email or what??? > > What questions did you have? > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles > referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically > under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) > > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] > On Behalf Of erikaandnewton > Sent: Saturday, November 07, 2009 12:28 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Subject: [AquaticLife] wisteria/lighting previous question/response > revisited > > ok, i've looked through the archives for posts made by me, and can't > find the post that this response was in reference to: > > ""First make sure that you have "water sprite" ( Ceratopteris > thalictroides) rather than Hygrophila difformis AKA "Water Wisteria"- They can be confused. > The easiest way to tell them apart is just by seeing how the new > leaves form. In true fern like way, the water sprite will unfurl a new > branch and set of leaves, while the wisteria will grow out new leaves > like most plants and trees. > For the 75 gallon, I would recommend a minimum of 100 watts of full > spectrum lighting on for at least 10 hours each day - You can build > your own 3 sided box to hold the lights inside and then mount one of these kits into them. > www.ahsupply.com ( 2 x 55 watt setup) They are very easy to put > together and very easy to repair in the future. Just make sure you get > good air flow. Or if you are not a DIY person, you can look for a good > price on a similar light that is already put together For minimal > light such as 100 watts you should stick with lower light tolerant > plants Ferns - Java fern, African Fern, Water sprite Mosses - any > aquatic moss that is proven temperature tolerant. > Anubius plants - many species to choose from Crypts - Many species to > choose from Some of the Hygrophilia species are worth a try including wisteria"" > > who gave me this information please? I have some more questions about > the lighting system, which i can either ask on list or off list, and > am driving my self bonkers looking for who provided the info in the first place!! > > erika newark de usa [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 44306	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 11/8/2009
Subject: Re: Something different....

Christine, My first thought was Lenny, but, you'd have to catch him first, and the 20 is probably too small for him, and the beer budget alone would probably be too much for your finances. Something you might look for, while not really unusual, but not often seen in the stores these days are some naturally colored dwarf gouramis. In a well planted tank, they should come into their own, and they are really gorgeous fish, with the males electric blue and red striping, and even the female, with her bars alternating between a shade of blue-grey and a darker grey. Put in a school of danios or rasbora, and maybe a horse-face loach or two to complete the tank. You'll have an all Asian fish population, and if you can find plants to match that, you'll be able to have an Asian habitat. I'll have to tell you though, unless you have good eyes, you'll not see the loaches very often. They prefer to settle in the substrate, with only their eyes showing. You can even use them as a party game--spot the horse face loach and win a prize. Just don't do it with a bunch of experienced fish people, or you will not have enough prizes to go around <g>. I did it once with a bunch of fish people who were familiar with the species, and not one missed the fish, though they spent some time looking for it. I was not offering a prize though, so my sanity, well, my sanity was always in question, but it remained the same. <g> (BTW, if I was a name dropper, many of the names would be recognized by the more experienced people here.) \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Christine Sent: Sunday, November 08, 2009 9:26 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Something different.... I'm working on setting up a 20 gal high aquarium I saved from the dumpster. It has a Whisper power filter (30-60gal), a regular hood with the small aquarium bulbs, air stones, etc. I'm looking for a species that is interesting, maybe a little odd, and affordable. Does anyone have any suggestions? So far the species I have living in my house are fancy goldfish, bettas, dragonfish, and a turtle.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 44307	From: kuradi8	Date: 11/8/2009
Subject: Re: Snail Questions

I didn't have my reading glasses on so I didn't read the descriptions. I probably won't get down there again in the near future to do so. As it says at http://www.applesnail.net/content/species_genera.htm since I got them at a PetsMart, they are most likely "bridgesii" Apple Snails. The yellow ones were labeled as "Mystery Snails" (one of the few things I could read without my specs) but they look just like the yellow ones in the top right photo on that page. The Ivory Snails (that's what they called them) are just like the pale one on the left and Mom's Blue Snail (again, their name) is like the slightly tinted one on the right. The difference is that Mom's Blue Snail has a dark body. But they're apparently just color variations of the same "bridgesii" Apple Snails. "Prefers dead and rotting plants and artificial foods like fish food; doesn't eat healthy plants unless no other food is available." I assume that means they'll eat some algae but dropping in some sinking fish food is a good idea. ~Kai --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@...> wrote: > > Are all of these still "Mystery Snails"? They come in many colors. Contact > your store and see if they know the actual scientific names for the snails > they sold you. > > You can also go to http://www.applesnail.net/content/species_genera.htm and > http://www.applesnail.net/content/various/recognize.htm and if yours aren't > *exactly* like these, then they are not Mystery Snails which are a smaller > species of the Apple Snail family. This page will help you identify your > snails if they are not Mystery Snails. > http://www.applesnail.net/content/snails_various.php > > Once you have your snails identified, then feeding can be determined. If > you do not have hard water, you may have to increase the calcium carbonate > (KH) level in the water and/or food of the snails so they get sufficient > calcium for their shells. > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right > side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) > > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On > Behalf Of kuradi8 > Sent: Sunday, November 08, 2009 11:20 AM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Subject: [AquaticLife] Snail Questions > > I got snails for my Bettas. The Mystery Snails didn't look very healthy so > I got a Blue Snail for Mom's Betta and an Ivory Snail for each of mine. > Mom's Blue Snail is VERY active. He motors around the bowl, up and down the > sides. When he climbs, mom's Betta gets VERY agitated. He flares and darts > and pecks at the snail. Kala is a young crowntail so no wonder he's such a > bully. Hopefully he'll stop soon. > > My two Ivory Snails are noticeably less active. Chow Mein's snail moves > around the bottom and climbs a little before heading back down. Sweet and > Sour's snail, however, is lethargic. He moves much more slowly. Is he just > lazy? Or still traumatized from the trip home? (Time will tell, I guess.) > Neither of my fish are particularly interested in their new roomies. > > Snail questions: > The shells of the Ivory Snails are quite translucent and I can see an air > bubble in each. How do they breathe? Do they eventually head up to the > surface and replace the air in their shells? If so, how often do they do > that? And what do they eat? Just algae and uneaten Betta food? Should I > drop them a spirulina disk once in a while? A few grains of sinking catfish > food? Something else? > > What else do I need to know? > ~Kai >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 44308	From: Cheryl Ellison	Date: 11/8/2009
Subject: Re: [Bulk] RE: [AquaticLife] Re: Algae/Betta Bowl

Betta's actually prefer smaller areas to live. They are very solitary fish, they don't really enjoy the company of other fish and they don't like a lot of water movement, bowls and small tanks are perfect for them as long as the water is changed regularly. They also like plants. I have unsuccessfully tried to keep a female betta in my 90 gallon community tank and she is just miserable in there, she keeps jumping through the overflow into my sump and I fish her out and put her back in the main tank and she just heads right back to the sump, so I am leaving her there for now and will probably move her to a bowl or small tank all by herself. I really thought she might enjoy the freedom to move through my heavily planted tank, but obviously she didn't like it. Cheryl from Seattle http://cherylshtuff.blogspot.com/ ----- Original Message ----- From: Dora Smith To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Sunday, November 08, 2009 5:37 AM Subject: Re: [Bulk] RE: [AquaticLife] Re: Algae/Betta Bowl My betta lives in a bowl, and he's STAYING in a bowl, Lennie, END OF SUBJECT. Yours, Dora Smith Austin, TX tiggernut24@... ----- Original Message ----- From: "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@...> To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Saturday, November 07, 2009 2:17 PM Subject: [Bulk] RE: [AquaticLife] Re: Algae/Betta Bowl UH OH... I see a can of worms... and I've got my can opener ready! LOL Yes, they "CAN" live in a bowl but that doesn't mean they should live in a bowl. This would be analogous to saying a family of four "CAN" live in an 8' x 8' room with a hole in the ground for a toilet... but that doesn't mean they *should* live in that type of home. It also doesn't mean that the government should create another government program to give larger homes to people that can't afford them out of their own income. LOL Doing a 25% PWC every day and using a small algae scrubber on the inside of the glass and then siphoning the gravel at least once a week or more, as needed, will go a long way to improving the water quality and thus lessening the algae growth. Also see my other reply before this one. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of kuradi8 Sent: Saturday, November 07, 2009 11:06 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Algae/Betta Bowl Because Bettas are surface breathers, they CAN live in bowls. (Bowls meaning they don't need aeration.) The one he's in isn't "small" but I'm on the lookout for a larger one or small tank, preferably at a Salvation Army price. Cleaning the bowl every day would mean too much of a water change and that would screw up his little ecosystem, having the water cycling all the time. ~Kai --- Harry wrote: > > Clean the bowl every day and explain to Momma fish don't belong in bowls. A small tank is cheap at Walmart. > Harry > > --- On Sat, 11/7/09, Dora Smith <tiggernut24@...> wrote: > > > Sounds like someone has to go over to Momma's house every once in a while and clean the bowl. > > Yours, > > Dora Smith > > Austin, TX > > tiggernut24@ yahoo.com > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > I got Mom a Betta a month or two back and his bowl is under the big > table > > lamp that she uses to read -- all day. So no wonder his bowl gets > bright > > green with algae growth. The answer is to move his bowl but no, it's > the > > most convenient place and she likes having him there. > > > > I mentioned getting a snail but someone replied that Mystery Snails > don't > > eat algae -- they eat the food that falls to the bottom. But other > posts > > say they DO eat algae. > > > > So which is it? And will s/he eat enough of it to keep Kala's algae > problem > > kinda-sorta under control? > > > > It's not easy being greeeeeeeen. .. > > ~Kai ------------------------------------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the home page. Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com to receive the digest, which includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com for the No E-Mail option where you will still be able to read messages on the group and post replies. Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com to receive individual e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 44309	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 11/8/2009
Subject: Re: Something different....

The scientific name for the "Lenny", that \\Steve// mentioned, would be H. sapiens var. lennyus. Of course, I shortened the Genus to just the initial, H., to deter any snickers and giggles from the peanut gallery (primarily being \\Steve//, Mike, Ray and Bill). ;-) But yes, as \\Steve// noted, this species would not fit in a 20G and it's a high maintenance species as well... especially that beer budget! Since a 20G tall tank has a footprint (24x12) not much larger than a 10G (20x10), you can also look at the article on my blog for 10G stocking suggestions for a long list of fish that would work long term in this type of tank. Even though you have twice as much water, you still have just a little more swimming room and surface area for gas exchange so you can not double up on the stocking levels. http://goldlenny.blogspot.com/2007/03/haileys-10-gallon-tank-stocking-list.h tml Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Steve Szabo Sent: Sunday, November 08, 2009 12:46 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Something different.... Christine, My first thought was Lenny, but, you'd have to catch him first, and the 20 is probably too small for him, and the beer budget alone would probably be too much for your finances. Something you might look for, while not really unusual, but not often seen in the stores these days are some naturally colored dwarf gouramis. In a well planted tank, they should come into their own, and they are really gorgeous fish, with the males electric blue and red striping, and even the female, with her bars alternating between a shade of blue-grey and a darker grey. Put in a school of danios or rasbora, and maybe a horse-face loach or two to complete the tank. You'll have an all Asian fish population, and if you can find plants to match that, you'll be able to have an Asian habitat. I'll have to tell you though, unless you have good eyes, you'll not see the loaches very often. They prefer to settle in the substrate, with only their eyes showing. You can even use them as a party game--spot the horse face loach and win a prize. Just don't do it with a bunch of experienced fish people, or you will not have enough prizes to go around <g>. I did it once with a bunch of fish people who were familiar with the species, and not one missed the fish, though they spent some time looking for it. I was not offering a prize though, so my sanity, well, my sanity was always in question, but it remained the same. <g> (BTW, if I was a name dropper, many of the names would be recognized by the more experienced people here.) \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Christine Sent: Sunday, November 08, 2009 9:26 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Something different.... I'm working on setting up a 20 gal high aquarium I saved from the dumpster. It has a Whisper power filter (30-60gal), a regular hood with the small aquarium bulbs, air stones, etc. I'm looking for a species that is interesting, maybe a little odd, and affordable. Does anyone have any suggestions? So far the species I have living in my house are fancy goldfish, bettas, dragonfish, and a turtle.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 44310	From: erikaandnewton	Date: 11/8/2009
Subject: Re: wisteria/lighting previous question/response revisited

If i don't need those style lights i don't have to buy anything. I have two strips for the 75 gallon (its about 20 inches tall)my understanding was its the design of this particular strip that will make it easier for me to keep plants in my tank. i'm not looking to spend the money on crazy butt special bulbs and set ups. im not going to get that into it, just looking to improve quality of life for my aquatic critters. so your advice is i should be just fine using my regular strips for my plants? erika newark de usa --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@...> wrote: > > The cheapest way to add lighting to a tank is to buy a basic shop-light type > fixture (sold at hardware and big-box home repair stores). They usually > sell these in 2', 3' and 4' lengths and the 4' is probably the cheapest > since it's the most common and more mass produced. This is what I have on > my 4' long, 65G goldfish, planted tank. I'll eventually build a canopy > (which is the fancy name for the wooden box that goes on the top of an > aquarium that usually matches the stand and covers up all the lighting > fixtures, etc.) but it's not necessary for the lighting to be effective. I > got a 4' white shop light fixture on sale for $12.99 and then bought the two > 45W, T-8 bulbs for about $5.00 each so I got my 90 watts of regular > fluorescent lighting for under $25.00. Before installing the shop light, > you could also buy a low-cost can of black spray paint and paint the > exterior of the shop light to make it black (if you wanted) but keep the > inside white for reflective purposes. Here's a couple at Sears for > $14.99... http://www.sears.com/shc/s/p_10153_12605_03489032000P > http://www.sears.com/shc/s/p_10153_12605_03489033000P > If you have a plastic or plexiglass tank cover, this can just be set right > down on top of the cover so you do not have to try and suspend them like > shown in the images. If you do not already have a clear plastic cover, you > can get the prism-type plastic like you see in the ceilings of offices and > elevators really cheap at your local big-box home repair store. They come > in different sizes and you can score/cut it to fit your tank top and also > cut out slots for your filters, etc. > > How tall is your 75G tank? If it's really tall, then standard fluorescent > lighting (above) may not be suitable and you would have to move up to more > expensive HO, VHO or CFL lighting. > > I'm still surprised that your previous text didn't show up on Google search > but it could just be that the site where you posted/received the info hasn't > been crawled by the search engines. I just re-did the search with DogPile > and still did not get any hits. BTW, DogPile.com does a search of Google, > Yahoo, Bing and Ask and compiles the results, so none of the major search > engines have crawled whatever site you got that from. Unless you got that > really recently, I'm suspecting it was via a private email sent only to you > and not posted online. > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right > side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) > > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On > Behalf Of erikaandnewton > Sent: Sunday, November 08, 2009 5:34 AM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: wisteria/lighting previous question/response > revisited > > > you know lenny, i might just be a total moron. I might have asked that on a > totally different list, maybe plant geek or something. I just copied and > pasted so i could add it to my folder of fish info and have something to > take to the store with me when i went plant shopping. > My question is, he mentions possibly being able to find similar lights > already assembled. I was wondering where i might look for them as i can't > see me building a housing with a fan to put those in. or for that matter > figuring out how to put the light together in the first place. > > erika newark de usa > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@> > wrote: > > > > Looks like Ray's writing to me... but I could be wrong. I regularly > > refer folks to the AHSupply.com site but the rest of the post doesn't > > look like mine. > > > > You could always Google one of the sentences and see what Google finds... > > such as.... hmmmmm.. that's strange. Google didn't find any of that post. > > Are you sure that was posted to the group and not just sent to you > off-list? > > > > > > How did you have all of that text but not know who gave it to you? > > Did you copy/paste the info from a website or email or what??? > > > > What questions did you have? > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles > > referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically > > under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) > > > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] > > On Behalf Of erikaandnewton > > Sent: Saturday, November 07, 2009 12:28 PM > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > Subject: [AquaticLife] wisteria/lighting previous question/response > > revisited > > > > ok, i've looked through the archives for posts made by me, and can't > > find the post that this response was in reference to: > > > > ""First make sure that you have "water sprite" ( Ceratopteris > > thalictroides) rather than Hygrophila difformis AKA "Water Wisteria"- They > can be confused. > > The easiest way to tell them apart is just by seeing how the new > > leaves form. In true fern like way, the water sprite will unfurl a new > > branch and set of leaves, while the wisteria will grow out new leaves > > like most plants and trees. > > For the 75 gallon, I would recommend a minimum of 100 watts of full > > spectrum lighting on for at least 10 hours each day - You can build > > your own 3 sided box to hold the lights inside and then mount one of these > kits into them. > > www.ahsupply.com ( 2 x 55 watt setup) They are very easy to put > > together and very easy to repair in the future. Just make sure you get > > good air flow. Or if you are not a DIY person, you can look for a good > > price on a similar light that is already put together For minimal > > light such as 100 watts you should stick with lower light tolerant > > plants Ferns - Java fern, African Fern, Water sprite Mosses - any > > aquatic moss that is proven temperature tolerant. > > Anubius plants - many species to choose from Crypts - Many species to > > choose from Some of the Hygrophilia species are worth a try including > wisteria"" > > > > who gave me this information please? I have some more questions about > > the lighting system, which i can either ask on list or off list, and > > am driving my self bonkers looking for who provided the info in the first > place!! > > > > erika newark de usa >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 44311	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 11/8/2009
Subject: Re: Snail Questions

Since the Betta bowls are only around 1G to 1.5G, if I remember correctly, you will have to increase the frequency of PWC's since you have added an additional bioload that is equal to or more than the Betta itself. Here's the Applesnail.net Quick Guide for Brig's http://www.applesnail.net/content/species/pomacea_bridgesi.htm and you'll see that they recommend 2.5G for each mid-sized snail. http://www.applesnail.net/content/various/quick_guide.htm Here's an article/thread of calcium rich foods for snails. http://www.applesnail.net/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=3988 Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of kuradi8 Sent: Sunday, November 08, 2009 1:18 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Snail Questions I didn't have my reading glasses on so I didn't read the descriptions. I probably won't get down there again in the near future to do so. As it says at http://www.applesnail.net/content/species_genera.htm since I got them at a PetsMart, they are most likely "bridgesii" Apple Snails. The yellow ones were labeled as "Mystery Snails" (one of the few things I could read without my specs) but they look just like the yellow ones in the top right photo on that page. The Ivory Snails (that's what they called them) are just like the pale one on the left and Mom's Blue Snail (again, their name) is like the slightly tinted one on the right. The difference is that Mom's Blue Snail has a dark body. But they're apparently just color variations of the same "bridgesii" Apple Snails. "Prefers dead and rotting plants and artificial foods like fish food; doesn't eat healthy plants unless no other food is available." I assume that means they'll eat some algae but dropping in some sinking fish food is a good idea. ~Kai --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@...> wrote: > > Are all of these still "Mystery Snails"? They come in many colors. > Contact your store and see if they know the actual scientific names > for the snails they sold you. > > You can also go to > http://www.applesnail.net/content/species_genera.htm and > http://www.applesnail.net/content/various/recognize.htm and if yours > aren't > *exactly* like these, then they are not Mystery Snails which are a > smaller species of the Apple Snail family. This page will help you > identify your snails if they are not Mystery Snails. > http://www.applesnail.net/content/snails_various.php > > Once you have your snails identified, then feeding can be determined. > If you do not have hard water, you may have to increase the calcium > carbonate > (KH) level in the water and/or food of the snails so they get > sufficient calcium for their shells. > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles > referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically > under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) > > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] > On Behalf Of kuradi8 > Sent: Sunday, November 08, 2009 11:20 AM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Subject: [AquaticLife] Snail Questions > > I got snails for my Bettas. The Mystery Snails didn't look very > healthy so I got a Blue Snail for Mom's Betta and an Ivory Snail for each of mine. > Mom's Blue Snail is VERY active. He motors around the bowl, up and > down the sides. When he climbs, mom's Betta gets VERY agitated. He > flares and darts and pecks at the snail. Kala is a young crowntail so > no wonder he's such a bully. Hopefully he'll stop soon. > > My two Ivory Snails are noticeably less active. Chow Mein's snail > moves around the bottom and climbs a little before heading back down. > Sweet and Sour's snail, however, is lethargic. He moves much more > slowly. Is he just lazy? Or still traumatized from the trip home? > (Time will tell, I guess.) Neither of my fish are particularly interested in their new roomies. > > Snail questions: > The shells of the Ivory Snails are quite translucent and I can see an > air bubble in each. How do they breathe? Do they eventually head up > to the surface and replace the air in their shells? If so, how often > do they do that? And what do they eat? Just algae and uneaten Betta > food? Should I drop them a spirulina disk once in a while? A few > grains of sinking catfish food? Something else? > > What else do I need to know? > ~Kai

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 44312	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 11/8/2009
Subject: Re: Snail Questions

I've posted this before, but I'll post it again. www.applesnail.net They have TONS of info on all kinds of snails, especially mystery snails, which is what you bought. Mystery snails come in quite a variety of colors. I have 2 kinds of purple and the ivory ones right now, breeding me out of tank and home ;) LOL. If you have enough air circulation in your tank with your filters your snails may never go to the top for air, as they can breathe under water too. But if you have a low oxygenation count in your water they will come to the surface quite often for air (few times a day I think). They have that air bubble inside their shell (called their lung) for breathing, they fill it up with air and then go back down under water. They mostly use this is less oxygenated water, I rarely see my snails surface in my 125 gallon tank which is drastically over filtered for my hill stream loaches. They eat the most algae as babies (under 1 inch in diameter), they MIGHT eat a little as adults but not much, they eat mostly leftover foods. And they will HOG the leftover foods, trust me ;) They like to stand on it to eat it so no one else can get to the food, LOL. Greedy buggers. I'm not sure how much algae my big mystery snails eat as they are mostly at the surface or on the bottom, rarely on the sides of the tank where the algae mostly forms. I watch the young ones eat it though. I over feed my tanks because mystery snails will easily die if you do not feed them enough, so to be on the safe side I feed a little extra to make sure they have enough left over food to find later. In my 125 gallon tank it can be very hard to do this as the tank is so big and one snail can only travel so fast to get to the food ;) I feed that tank twice a day just to make sure, as nearly all the snails I've put into that tank have either had an accident with my filter intake (got stuck to it and didn't recover after I carefully removed them), and I have a couple die from mysterious causes (haha, that's a funny term since they're called mystery snails). I think the ones that just suddenly died either drowned (didn't get enough air in their lung and couldn't make it to the surface) but I doubt that in such a highly oxygenated tank, or they starved to death, which I could easily see happening in such a large tank. Amber kuradi8 wrote: > > I got snails for my Bettas. The Mystery Snails didn't look very > healthy so I got a Blue Snail for Mom's Betta and an Ivory Snail for > each of mine. Mom's Blue Snail is VERY active. He motors around the > bowl, up and down the sides. When he climbs, mom's Betta gets VERY > agitated. He flares and darts and pecks at the snail. Kala is a young > crowntail so no wonder he's such a bully. Hopefully he'll stop soon. > > My two Ivory Snails are noticeably less active. Chow Mein's snail > moves around the bottom and climbs a little before heading back down. > Sweet and Sour's snail, however, is lethargic. He moves much more > slowly. Is he just lazy? Or still traumatized from the trip home? > (Time will tell, I guess.) Neither of my fish are particularly > interested in their new roomies. > > Snail questions: > The shells of the Ivory Snails are quite translucent and I can see an > air bubble in each. How do they breathe? Do they eventually head up to > the surface and replace the air in their shells? If so, how often do > they do that? And what do they eat? Just algae and uneaten Betta food? > Should I drop them a spirulina disk once in a while? A few grains of > sinking catfish food? Something else? > > What else do I need to know? > ~Kai > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 44313	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 11/8/2009
Subject: Re: [Bulk] RE: [AquaticLife] Re: Algae/Betta Bowl

Your female Betta in the 90G may be disturbed by the presumably higher water movement that I would presume took place in a 90G tank. They come from slow moving to stagnant waters in the wild. I'm not sure where you get that Bettta's prefer smaller areas to live? Yes, they will establish a territory but they still like to swim around... and not just in a 6" circle. The last Betta I had, which I rescued from a flooded Katrina home in a 1 qt. vase, was moved to a 1.5G vase and eventually into a 10G planted tank and he swam around and explored the entire tank on a regular basis. Yes, male Bettas are often solitary since they are aggressive to other males and often aggressive to females as well but just because they are grumpy old men, it does not mean they only want to live in a closet of a home. Even grumpy old men (like Bill) like a full sized home... even though he may spend most of his time in the recliner watching TV. ;-) Did you possibly have another fish that was harassing her? That's always a possibility with fish with longer, flowing fins. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Cheryl Ellison Sent: Sunday, November 08, 2009 12:31 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [Bulk] RE: [AquaticLife] Re: Algae/Betta Bowl Betta's actually prefer smaller areas to live. They are very solitary fish, they don't really enjoy the company of other fish and they don't like a lot of water movement, bowls and small tanks are perfect for them as long as the water is changed regularly. They also like plants. I have unsuccessfully tried to keep a female betta in my 90 gallon community tank and she is just miserable in there, she keeps jumping through the overflow into my sump and I fish her out and put her back in the main tank and she just heads right back to the sump, so I am leaving her there for now and will probably move her to a bowl or small tank all by herself. I really thought she might enjoy the freedom to move through my heavily planted tank, but obviously she didn't like it. Cheryl from Seattle http://cherylshtuff.blogspot.com/ ----- Original Message ----- From: Dora Smith To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Sunday, November 08, 2009 5:37 AM Subject: Re: [Bulk] RE: [AquaticLife] Re: Algae/Betta Bowl My betta lives in a bowl, and he's STAYING in a bowl, Lennie, END OF SUBJECT. Yours, Dora Smith Austin, TX tiggernut24@... ----- Original Message ----- From: "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@...> To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Saturday, November 07, 2009 2:17 PM Subject: [Bulk] RE: [AquaticLife] Re: Algae/Betta Bowl UH OH... I see a can of worms... and I've got my can opener ready! LOL Yes, they "CAN" live in a bowl but that doesn't mean they should live in a bowl. This would be analogous to saying a family of four "CAN" live in an 8' x 8' room with a hole in the ground for a toilet... but that doesn't mean they *should* live in that type of home. It also doesn't mean that the government should create another government program to give larger homes to people that can't afford them out of their own income. LOL Doing a 25% PWC every day and using a small algae scrubber on the inside of the glass and then siphoning the gravel at least once a week or more, as needed, will go a long way to improving the water quality and thus lessening the algae growth. Also see my other reply before this one. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of kuradi8 Sent: Saturday, November 07, 2009 11:06 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Algae/Betta Bowl Because Bettas are surface breathers, they CAN live in bowls. (Bowls meaning they don't need aeration.) The one he's in isn't "small" but I'm on the lookout for a larger one or small tank, preferably at a Salvation Army price. Cleaning the bowl every day would mean too much of a water change and that would screw up his little ecosystem, having the water cycling all the time. ~Kai --- Harry wrote: > > Clean the bowl every day and explain to Momma fish don't belong in bowls. A small tank is cheap at Walmart. > Harry > > --- On Sat, 11/7/09, Dora Smith <tiggernut24@...> wrote: > > > Sounds like someone has to go over to Momma's house every once in a while and clean the bowl. > > Yours, > > Dora Smith > > Austin, TX > > tiggernut24@ yahoo.com > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > I got Mom a Betta a month or two back and his bowl is under the big > table > > lamp that she uses to read -- all day. So no wonder his bowl gets > bright > > green with algae growth. The answer is to move his bowl but no, it's > the > > most convenient place and she likes having him there. > > > > I mentioned getting a snail but someone replied that Mystery Snails > don't > > eat algae -- they eat the food that falls to the bottom. But other > posts > > say they DO eat algae. > > > > So which is it? And will s/he eat enough of it to keep Kala's algae > problem > > kinda-sorta under control? > > > > It's not easy being greeeeeeeen. .. > > ~Kai

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 44314	From: sevenspringss@wmconnect.com	Date: 11/8/2009
Subject: Re: wisteria/lighting previous question/response revisited

Nope, wasn't my writing. Ray [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 44315	From: kuradi8	Date: 11/8/2009
Subject: Re: Snail Questions

Since these guys are in Betta Bowls, there is no bubbler or agitation so they'll have to go up to the surface. I just posted a couple of pictures of Mom's Betta, Kala, and a GREAT (if I do say so myself) shot of her snail with his breathing siphon sticking up out of the water. Check out my shots at http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife/photos/album/1062797703/pic/list Also note the happy bubbles (Or should I call them horny bubbles for Harry's benefit?) up at the surface. My snails haven't ventured up there yet but I read that they're nocturnal so maybe they do it on the sly when it's dark. Thanks, Amber, for your good advice. Fortunately, Mom overfeeds poor little Kala so theoretically Tigu ("Snail") will have plenty to eat but I'll also give her some sinking catfish food. ~Kai --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, Amber Berglund <arberglund@...> wrote: > > I've posted this before, but I'll post it again. > www.applesnail.net > They have TONS of info on all kinds of snails, especially mystery > snails, which is what you bought. Mystery snails come in quite a variety > of colors. I have 2 kinds of purple and the ivory ones right now, > breeding me out of tank and home ;) LOL. > If you have enough air circulation in your tank with your filters your > snails may never go to the top for air, as they can breathe under water > too. But if you have a low oxygenation count in your water they will > come to the surface quite often for air (few times a day I think). They > have that air bubble inside their shell (called their lung) for > breathing, they fill it up with air and then go back down under water. > They mostly use this is less oxygenated water, I rarely see my snails > surface in my 125 gallon tank which is drastically over filtered for my > hill stream loaches. > They eat the most algae as babies (under 1 inch in diameter), they MIGHT > eat a little as adults but not much, they eat mostly leftover foods. And > they will HOG the leftover foods, trust me ;) They like to stand on it > to eat it so no one else can get to the food, LOL. Greedy buggers. I'm > not sure how much algae my big mystery snails eat as they are mostly at > the surface or on the bottom, rarely on the sides of the tank where the > algae mostly forms. I watch the young ones eat it though. > I over feed my tanks because mystery snails will easily die if you do > not feed them enough, so to be on the safe side I feed a little extra to > make sure they have enough left over food to find later. In my 125 > gallon tank it can be very hard to do this as the tank is so big and one > snail can only travel so fast to get to the food ;) I feed that tank > twice a day just to make sure, as nearly all the snails I've put into > that tank have either had an accident with my filter intake (got stuck > to it and didn't recover after I carefully removed them), and I have a > couple die from mysterious causes (haha, that's a funny term since > they're called mystery snails). I think the ones that just suddenly died > either drowned (didn't get enough air in their lung and couldn't make it > to the surface) but I doubt that in such a highly oxygenated tank, or > they starved to death, which I could easily see happening in such a > large tank. > > Amber > > kuradi8 wrote: > > > > I got snails for my Bettas. The Mystery Snails didn't look very > > healthy so I got a Blue Snail for Mom's Betta and an Ivory Snail for > > each of mine. Mom's Blue Snail is VERY active. He motors around the > > bowl, up and down the sides. When he climbs, mom's Betta gets VERY > > agitated. He flares and darts and pecks at the snail. Kala is a young > > crowntail so no wonder he's such a bully. Hopefully he'll stop soon. > > > > My two Ivory Snails are noticeably less active. Chow Mein's snail > > moves around the bottom and climbs a little before heading back down. > > Sweet and Sour's snail, however, is lethargic. He moves much more > > slowly. Is he just lazy? Or still traumatized from the trip home? > > (Time will tell, I guess.) Neither of my fish are particularly > > interested in their new roomies. > > > > Snail questions: > > The shells of the Ivory Snails are quite translucent and I can see an > > air bubble in each. How do they breathe? Do they eventually head up to > > the surface and replace the air in their shells? If so, how often do > > they do that? And what do they eat? Just algae and uneaten Betta food? > > Should I drop them a spirulina disk once in a while? A few grains of > > sinking catfish food? Something else? > > > > What else do I need to know? > > ~Kai > > > > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 44316	From: bill 1433	Date: 11/8/2009
Subject: Re: wisteria/lighting previous question/response revisited

NOT!!! Sorry Len, you're wrong this time. The guy that made the post went into detail about how to construct the lights for incandescent or will type of ballast will work best for florescent tubes. He also talked about the general hooking up of everything including what size electrical wire inside the light housing. This guy new what he was talking about as he is a electrician by trade. Off hand this posting was made to the group about 2 or 3 months ago. Although the link is informative, that's not it. This gentlemen showed you how to do all this WITHOUT kits. Still kickin' Bill --- On Sun, 11/8/09, Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@...> wrote: > From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@...> > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: wisteria/lighting previous question/response revisited > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Date: Sunday, November 8, 2009, 1:04 PM > Well at least, we now know it was a > recent post, which is why it's not > showing up on the search engines yet.  Ol' Bill > couldn't have remembered it > if it was too long ago. LOL  Sorry Bill... couldn't > resist! LOL > > The link to the commonly referred DIY aquarium lighting > site is > http://www.AHSupply.com > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed > on the right > side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives > by Year, Month) > > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] > On > Behalf Of bill 1433 > Sent: Sunday, November 08, 2009 8:08 AM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: wisteria/lighting previous > question/response > revisited > > We must be on the same groups Erika.  I can remember > the post but not the > "who" or "where" part of it.  As I recall he also > mentions about building > his own lights and how.  I lost the post and his link > too! > > Bill > > --- On Sun, 11/8/09, erikaandnewton <e.isme@...> > wrote: > > > From: erikaandnewton <e.isme@...> > > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: wisteria/lighting previous > > > question/response revisited > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > Date: Sunday, November 8, 2009, 6:34 AM > > > > you know lenny, i might just be a total moron. I might > have asked that > > on a totally different list, maybe plant geek or > something. I just > > copied and pasted so i could add it to my folder of > fish info and have > > something to take to the store with me when i went > plant shopping. > > My question is, he mentions possibly being able to > find similar lights > > already assembled. I was wondering where i might look > for them as i > > can't see me building a housing with a fan to put > those in. or for > > that matter figuring out how to put the light together > in the first > > place. > > > > erika newark de usa > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, > > "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@...> wrote: > > > > > > Looks like Ray's writing to me... but I could be > > wrong.  I regularly refer > > > folks to the AHSupply.com site but the rest of > the > > post doesn't look like > > > mine. > > > > > > You could always Google one of the sentences and > see > > what Google finds... > > > such as.... hmmmmm.. that's strange.  Google > > didn't find any of that post. > > > Are you sure that was posted to the group and not > just > > sent to you off-list? > > > > > > > > > How did you have all of that text but not know > who > > gave it to you?  Did you > > > copy/paste the info from a website or email or > > what??? > > > > > > What questions did you have? > > > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles > > > referenced in above reply are > > listed on the right > > > side, alphabetically under Labels and also under > > Archives by Year, Month) > > > > > > > > >  > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] > > On > > > Behalf Of erikaandnewton > > > Sent: Saturday, November 07, 2009 12:28 PM > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > > Subject: [AquaticLife] wisteria/lighting > previous > > question/response > > > revisited > > > > > > ok, i've looked through the archives for posts > made by > > me, and can't find > > > the post that this response was in reference to: > > > > > > ""First make sure that you have "water sprite" ( > > Ceratopteris thalictroides) > > > rather than Hygrophila difformis AKA "Water > Wisteria"- > > They can be confused. > > > The easiest way to tell them apart is just by > seeing > > how the new leaves > > > form. In true fern like way, the water sprite > will > > unfurl a new branch and > > > set of leaves, while the wisteria will grow out > new > > leaves like most plants > > > and trees. > > > For the 75 gallon, I would recommend a minimum of > 100 > > watts of full spectrum > > > lighting on for at least 10 hours each day - You > can > > build your own 3 sided > > > box to hold the lights inside and then mount one > of > > these kits into them. > > > www.ahsupply.com ( 2 x 55 watt setup) They are > very > > easy to put together and > > > very easy to repair in the future. Just make sure > you > > get good air flow. Or > > > if you are not a DIY person, you can look for a > good > > price on a similar > > > light that is already put together For minimal > light > > such as 100 watts you > > > should stick with lower light tolerant plants > Ferns - > > Java fern, African > > > Fern, Water sprite Mosses - any aquatic moss that > is > > proven temperature > > > tolerant. > > > Anubius plants - many species to choose from > Crypts - > > Many species to choose > > > from Some of the Hygrophilia species are worth a > try > > including wisteria"" > > > > > > who gave me this information please? I have some > more > > questions about the > > > lighting system, which i can either ask on list > or off > > list, and am driving > > > my self bonkers looking for who provided the info > in > > the first place!! > > > > > > erika newark de usa > > > > ------------------------------------ > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when > replying, Thank You. > ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> > ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> > PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is > NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of > the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new > subject (was re: old subject)" <- > <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. > , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. > > If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of > unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by > clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the home page.  > > Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com > to receive the digest, which includes up to 25 posts at a > time in a single email > > Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com > for the No E-Mail option where you will still be able to > read messages on the group and post replies. > > Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com > to receive individual e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links > > >     AquaticLife-fullfeatured@yahoogroups.com > > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 44317	From: Donna Ransome	Date: 11/8/2009
Subject: Re: [Bulk] RE: [AquaticLife] Re: Algae/Betta Bowl

I don’t think anyone is trying to talk you out of a bowl Dora, but making sure Kai has all the facts. _____ From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Dora Smith Sent: Sunday, November 08, 2009 8:38 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [Bulk] RE: [AquaticLife] Re: Algae/Betta Bowl My betta lives in a bowl, and he's STAYING in a bowl, Lennie, END OF SUBJECT. Yours, Dora Smith Austin, TX tiggernut24@ <mailto:tiggernut24%40yahoo.com> yahoo.com ----- Original Message ----- From: "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@gmail. <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com> com> To: <AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com> Sent: Saturday, November 07, 2009 2:17 PM Subject: [Bulk] RE: [AquaticLife] Re: Algae/Betta Bowl UH OH... I see a can of worms... and I've got my can opener ready! LOL Yes, they "CAN" live in a bowl but that doesn't mean they should live in a bowl. This would be analogous to saying a family of four "CAN" live in an 8' x 8' room with a hole in the ground for a toilet... but that doesn't mean they *should* live in that type of home. It also doesn't mean that the government should create another government program to give larger homes to people that can't afford them out of their own income. LOL Doing a 25% PWC every day and using a small algae scrubber on the inside of the glass and then siphoning the gravel at least once a week or more, as needed, will go a long way to improving the water quality and thus lessening the algae growth. Also see my other reply before this one. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of kuradi8 Sent: Saturday, November 07, 2009 11:06 AM To: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Algae/Betta Bowl Because Bettas are surface breathers, they CAN live in bowls. (Bowls meaning they don't need aeration.) The one he's in isn't "small" but I'm on the lookout for a larger one or small tank, preferably at a Salvation Army price. Cleaning the bowl every day would mean too much of a water change and that would screw up his little ecosystem, having the water cycling all the time. ~Kai --- Harry wrote: > > Clean the bowl every day and explain to Momma fish don't belong in bowls. A small tank is cheap at Walmart. > Harry > > --- On Sat, 11/7/09, Dora Smith <tiggernut24@...> wrote: > > > Sounds like someone has to go over to Momma's house every once in a while and clean the bowl. > > Yours, > > Dora Smith > > Austin, TX > > tiggernut24@ yahoo.com > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > I got Mom a Betta a month or two back and his bowl is under the big > table > > lamp that she uses to read -- all day. So no wonder his bowl gets > bright > > green with algae growth. The answer is to move his bowl but no, it's > the > > most convenient place and she likes having him there. > > > > I mentioned getting a snail but someone replied that Mystery Snails > don't > > eat algae -- they eat the food that falls to the bottom. But other > posts > > say they DO eat algae. > > > > So which is it? And will s/he eat enough of it to keep Kala's algae > problem > > kinda-sorta under control? > > > > It's not easy being greeeeeeeen. .. > > ~Kai ------------------------------------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the home page. Or e-mail aquaticlife- <mailto:aquaticlife-digest%40yahoogroups.com> digest@yahoogroups.com to receive the digest, which includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email Or email aquaticlife- <mailto:aquaticlife-nomail%40yahoogroups.com> nomail@yahoogroups.com for the No E-Mail option where you will still be able to read messages on the group and post replies. Or email aquaticlife- <mailto:aquaticlife-normal%40yahoogroups.com> normal@yahoogroups.com to receive individual e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 44318	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 11/8/2009
Subject: Re: wisteria/lighting previous question/response revisited

OK. I was under the impression you were in need of lighting. What kind of lighting do you currently have? Look at the bulbs and there should be some kind of writing on one of the ends. Give us that info if you cannot decipher it yourself. When you say "two strips" do you have two 4' long two-bulb fixtures already or something else? If there's no writing, maybe take a picture of the underside of the light fixture and post it in your online photo album or in the group's photo album section. It's probably 21" tall, since a common measurement for a 75G is 48"x18"x21" Tall. Double check though since it's always a good idea to know your tank size for certain. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of erikaandnewton Sent: Sunday, November 08, 2009 1:58 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: wisteria/lighting previous question/response revisited If i don't need those style lights i don't have to buy anything. I have two strips for the 75 gallon (its about 20 inches tall)my understanding was its the design of this particular strip that will make it easier for me to keep plants in my tank. i'm not looking to spend the money on crazy butt special bulbs and set ups. im not going to get that into it, just looking to improve quality of life for my aquatic critters. so your advice is i should be just fine using my regular strips for my plants? erika newark de usa --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@...> wrote: > > The cheapest way to add lighting to a tank is to buy a basic > shop-light type fixture (sold at hardware and big-box home repair > stores). They usually sell these in 2', 3' and 4' lengths and the 4' > is probably the cheapest since it's the most common and more mass > produced. This is what I have on my 4' long, 65G goldfish, planted > tank. I'll eventually build a canopy (which is the fancy name for the > wooden box that goes on the top of an aquarium that usually matches > the stand and covers up all the lighting fixtures, etc.) but it's not > necessary for the lighting to be effective. I got a 4' white shop > light fixture on sale for $12.99 and then bought the two 45W, T-8 > bulbs for about $5.00 each so I got my 90 watts of regular fluorescent > lighting for under $25.00. Before installing the shop light, you > could also buy a low-cost can of black spray paint and paint the > exterior of the shop light to make it black (if you wanted) but keep > the inside white for reflective purposes. Here's a couple at Sears > for $14.99... http://www.sears.com/shc/s/p_10153_12605_03489032000P > http://www.sears.com/shc/s/p_10153_12605_03489033000P > If you have a plastic or plexiglass tank cover, this can just be set > right down on top of the cover so you do not have to try and suspend > them like shown in the images. If you do not already have a clear > plastic cover, you can get the prism-type plastic like you see in the > ceilings of offices and elevators really cheap at your local big-box > home repair store. They come in different sizes and you can score/cut > it to fit your tank top and also cut out slots for your filters, etc. > > How tall is your 75G tank? If it's really tall, then standard > fluorescent lighting (above) may not be suitable and you would have to > move up to more expensive HO, VHO or CFL lighting. > > I'm still surprised that your previous text didn't show up on Google > search but it could just be that the site where you posted/received > the info hasn't been crawled by the search engines. I just re-did the > search with DogPile and still did not get any hits. BTW, DogPile.com > does a search of Google, Yahoo, Bing and Ask and compiles the results, > so none of the major search engines have crawled whatever site you got > that from. Unless you got that really recently, I'm suspecting it was > via a private email sent only to you and not posted online. > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles > referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically > under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) > > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] > On Behalf Of erikaandnewton > Sent: Sunday, November 08, 2009 5:34 AM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: wisteria/lighting previous > question/response revisited > > > you know lenny, i might just be a total moron. I might have asked that > on a totally different list, maybe plant geek or something. I just > copied and pasted so i could add it to my folder of fish info and have > something to take to the store with me when i went plant shopping. > My question is, he mentions possibly being able to find similar lights > already assembled. I was wondering where i might look for them as i > can't see me building a housing with a fan to put those in. or for > that matter figuring out how to put the light together in the first place. > > erika newark de usa > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" > <GoldLenny@> > wrote: > > > > Looks like Ray's writing to me... but I could be wrong. I regularly > > refer folks to the AHSupply.com site but the rest of the post > > doesn't look like mine. > > > > You could always Google one of the sentences and see what Google finds... > > such as.... hmmmmm.. that's strange. Google didn't find any of that post. > > Are you sure that was posted to the group and not just sent to you > off-list? > > > > > > How did you have all of that text but not know who gave it to you? > > Did you copy/paste the info from a website or email or what??? > > > > What questions did you have? > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles > > referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, > > alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) > > > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] > > On Behalf Of erikaandnewton > > Sent: Saturday, November 07, 2009 12:28 PM > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > Subject: [AquaticLife] wisteria/lighting previous question/response > > revisited > > > > ok, i've looked through the archives for posts made by me, and can't > > find the post that this response was in reference to: > > > > ""First make sure that you have "water sprite" ( Ceratopteris > > thalictroides) rather than Hygrophila difformis AKA "Water > > Wisteria"- They > can be confused. > > The easiest way to tell them apart is just by seeing how the new > > leaves form. In true fern like way, the water sprite will unfurl a > > new branch and set of leaves, while the wisteria will grow out new > > leaves like most plants and trees. > > For the 75 gallon, I would recommend a minimum of 100 watts of full > > spectrum lighting on for at least 10 hours each day - You can build > > your own 3 sided box to hold the lights inside and then mount one of > > these > kits into them. > > www.ahsupply.com ( 2 x 55 watt setup) They are very easy to put > > together and very easy to repair in the future. Just make sure you > > get good air flow. Or if you are not a DIY person, you can look for > > a good price on a similar light that is already put together For > > minimal light such as 100 watts you should stick with lower light > > tolerant plants Ferns - Java fern, African Fern, Water sprite Mosses > > - any aquatic moss that is proven temperature tolerant. > > Anubius plants - many species to choose from Crypts - Many species > > to choose from Some of the Hygrophilia species are worth a try > > including > wisteria"" > > > > who gave me this information please? I have some more questions > > about the lighting system, which i can either ask on list or off > > list, and am driving my self bonkers looking for who provided the > > info in the first > place!! > > > > erika newark de usa

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 44319	From: bill 1433	Date: 11/8/2009
Subject: Re: wisteria/lighting previous question/response revisited

Thanks for the link Cheryl! I bookmarked that one. Bill --- On Sun, 11/8/09, Cheryl Ellison <cheryl.ellison@...> wrote: > From: Cheryl Ellison <cheryl.ellison@...> > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: wisteria/lighting previous question/response revisited > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Date: Sunday, November 8, 2009, 1:19 PM > The problem with that kind of > lighting is it isn't in the right spectrum, you are asking > for trouble as far as nuisance algae and the plants need a > different spectrum to thrive.  Here is a link about > lighting:  http://www.rexgrigg.com/light.html > > Cheryl from Seattle > http://cherylshtuff.blogspot.com/ > >   ----- Original Message ----- >   From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny >   To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > >   Sent: Sunday, November 08, 2009 9:42 AM >   Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: wisteria/lighting > previous question/response revisited > > >     >   The cheapest way to add lighting to a tank is to buy > a basic shop-light type >   fixture (sold at hardware and big-box home repair > stores). They usually >   sell these in 2', 3' and 4' lengths and the 4' is > probably the cheapest >   since it's the most common and more mass produced. > This is what I have on >   my 4' long, 65G goldfish, planted tank. I'll > eventually build a canopy >   (which is the fancy name for the wooden box that > goes on the top of an >   aquarium that usually matches the stand and covers > up all the lighting >   fixtures, etc.) but it's not necessary for the > lighting to be effective. I >   got a 4' white shop light fixture on sale for $12.99 > and then bought the two >   45W, T-8 bulbs for about $5.00 each so I got my 90 > watts of regular >   fluorescent lighting for under $25.00. Before > installing the shop light, >   you could also buy a low-cost can of black spray > paint and paint the >   exterior of the shop light to make it black (if you > wanted) but keep the >   inside white for reflective purposes. Here's a > couple at Sears for >   $14.99... http://www.sears.com/shc/s/p_10153_12605_03489032000P >   http://www.sears.com/shc/s/p_10153_12605_03489033000P >   If you have a plastic or plexiglass tank cover, this > can just be set right >   down on top of the cover so you do not have to try > and suspend them like >   shown in the images. If you do not already have a > clear plastic cover, you >   can get the prism-type plastic like you see in the > ceilings of offices and >   elevators really cheap at your local big-box home > repair store. They come >   in different sizes and you can score/cut it to fit > your tank top and also >   cut out slots for your filters, etc. > >   How tall is your 75G tank? If it's really tall, then > standard fluorescent >   lighting (above) may not be suitable and you would > have to move up to more >   expensive HO, VHO or CFL lighting. > >   I'm still surprised that your previous text didn't > show up on Google search >   but it could just be that the site where you > posted/received the info hasn't >   been crawled by the search engines. I just re-did > the search with DogPile >   and still did not get any hits. BTW, DogPile.com > does a search of Google, >   Yahoo, Bing and Ask and compiles the results, so > none of the major search >   engines have crawled whatever site you got that > from. Unless you got that >   really recently, I'm suspecting it was via a private > email sent only to you >   and not posted online. > >   Lenny Vasbinder >   Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com >   (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are > listed on the right >   side, alphabetically under Labels and also under > Archives by Year, Month) > >   -----Original Message----- >   From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] > On >   Behalf Of erikaandnewton >   Sent: Sunday, November 08, 2009 5:34 AM >   To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com >   Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: wisteria/lighting > previous question/response >   revisited > >   you know lenny, i might just be a total moron. I > might have asked that on a >   totally different list, maybe plant geek or > something. I just copied and >   pasted so i could add it to my folder of fish info > and have something to >   take to the store with me when i went plant > shopping. >   My question is, he mentions possibly being able to > find similar lights >   already assembled. I was wondering where i might > look for them as i can't >   see me building a housing with a fan to put those > in. or for that matter >   figuring out how to put the light together in the > first place. > >   erika newark de usa >   --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, > "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@...> >   wrote: >   > >   > Looks like Ray's writing to me... but I could > be wrong. I regularly >   > refer folks to the AHSupply.com site but the > rest of the post doesn't >   > look like mine. >   > >   > You could always Google one of the sentences > and see what Google finds... >   > such as.... hmmmmm.. that's strange. Google > didn't find any of that post. >   > Are you sure that was posted to the group and > not just sent to you >   off-list? >   > >   > >   > How did you have all of that text but not know > who gave it to you? >   > Did you copy/paste the info from a website or > email or what??? >   > >   > What questions did you have? >   > >   > Lenny Vasbinder >   > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles >   > referenced in above reply are listed on the > right side, alphabetically >   > under Labels and also under Archives by Year, > Month) >   > >   > >   > >   > >   > -----Original Message----- >   > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] > >   > On Behalf Of erikaandnewton >   > Sent: Saturday, November 07, 2009 12:28 PM >   > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com >   > Subject: [AquaticLife] wisteria/lighting > previous question/response >   > revisited >   > >   > ok, i've looked through the archives for posts > made by me, and can't >   > find the post that this response was in > reference to: >   > >   > ""First make sure that you have "water sprite" > ( Ceratopteris >   > thalictroides) rather than Hygrophila difformis > AKA "Water Wisteria"- They >   can be confused. >   > The easiest way to tell them apart is just by > seeing how the new >   > leaves form. In true fern like way, the water > sprite will unfurl a new >   > branch and set of leaves, while the wisteria > will grow out new leaves >   > like most plants and trees. >   > For the 75 gallon, I would recommend a minimum > of 100 watts of full >   > spectrum lighting on for at least 10 hours each > day - You can build >   > your own 3 sided box to hold the lights inside > and then mount one of these >   kits into them. >   > www.ahsupply.com ( 2 x 55 watt setup) They are > very easy to put >   > together and very easy to repair in the future. > Just make sure you get >   > good air flow. Or if you are not a DIY person, > you can look for a good >   > price on a similar light that is already put > together For minimal >   > light such as 100 watts you should stick with > lower light tolerant >   > plants Ferns - Java fern, African Fern, Water > sprite Mosses - any >   > aquatic moss that is proven temperature > tolerant. >   > Anubius plants - many species to choose from > Crypts - Many species to >   > choose from Some of the Hygrophilia species are > worth a try including >   wisteria"" >   > >   > who gave me this information please? I have > some more questions about >   > the lighting system, which i can either ask on > list or off list, and >   > am driving my self bonkers looking for who > provided the info in the first >   place!! >   > >   > erika newark de usa > > > >   > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > ------------------------------------ > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when > replying, Thank You. > ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> > ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> > PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is > NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of > the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new > subject (was re: old subject)" <- > <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. > , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. > > If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of > unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by > clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the home page.  > > Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com > to receive the digest, which includes up to 25 posts at a > time in a single email > > Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com > for the No E-Mail option where you will still be able to > read messages on the group and post replies. > > Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com > to receive individual e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links > > >     AquaticLife-fullfeatured@yahoogroups.com > > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 44320	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 11/8/2009
Subject: Re: Snail Questions

That's probably where her algae is coming from on the glass (over feeding), but hopefully this will help, if not it's just going to cause an early death for a snail if her water is not hard enough. They will not survive very long in soft water, it eats holes into their shells and they end up dead eventually. I had to add stuff to my filters to raise my hardness levels just so I could actually keep snails and shrimp in my tanks. Also one thing to keep in mind, make sure to watch the snails if they are laying on the gravel and look like they're reaching for things to try to pull them up and walk to the surface, but they appear too heavy to move. This means they have a water filled lung and they need assistance. I have lost a couple snails to this problem this year. Just pull them out of the water for a few minutes or so (you can let them sit on your hand that's fine) and wait until it spits out all that water and starts to suck in air, once they feel lighter (they will feel very heavy with water inside them, like a little rock), it's safe to put them back, but I usually put mine near the surface on one of my floating plants just in case it's not ready to go in the water (needs more air, etc). If you're not sure just set them in a small bowl with just a tiny bit of water (so it wets the bowl but does not cover the snail at all, so you don't drown him/her more, LOL), and give it a little while, once it starts to crawl around the bowl it should have enough air in it's lung to go back in the tank. I'm not sure why this happens in my tank but every now and then (like every other month) I notice a snail having trouble on the bottom and I have to pull it out to breathe. Sometimes I don't catch it in time and they drown :( That's usually while I'm at work, and I come back to a dead snail instead :( And yes, you have mystery snails from what I can see, either that or they are one of the larger varieties and it's just a baby, but that looks like an adult mystery snail to me. Here's some pics of all my snails (there are a lot, LOL). http://www.flickr.com/photos/spamber/sets/72157621157741856/ Amber kuradi8 wrote: > > Since these guys are in Betta Bowls, there is no bubbler or agitation > so they'll have to go up to the surface. I just posted a couple of > pictures of Mom's Betta, Kala, and a GREAT (if I do say so myself) > shot of her snail with his breathing siphon sticking up out of the > water. Check out my shots at > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife/photos/album/1062797703/pic/list > <http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife/photos/album/1062797703/pic/list> > > > Also note the happy bubbles (Or should I call them horny bubbles for > Harry's benefit?) up at the surface. My snails haven't ventured up > there yet but I read that they're nocturnal so maybe they do it on the > sly when it's dark. > > Thanks, Amber, for your good advice. Fortunately, Mom overfeeds poor > little Kala so theoretically Tigu ("Snail") will have plenty to eat > but I'll also give her some sinking catfish food. > ~Kai > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>, Amber Berglund > <arberglund@...> wrote: > > > > I've posted this before, but I'll post it again. > > www.applesnail.net > > They have TONS of info on all kinds of snails, especially mystery > > snails, which is what you bought. Mystery snails come in quite a > variety > > of colors. I have 2 kinds of purple and the ivory ones right now, > > breeding me out of tank and home ;) LOL. > > If you have enough air circulation in your tank with your filters your > > snails may never go to the top for air, as they can breathe under water > > too. But if you have a low oxygenation count in your water they will > > come to the surface quite often for air (few times a day I think). They > > have that air bubble inside their shell (called their lung) for > > breathing, they fill it up with air and then go back down under water. > > They mostly use this is less oxygenated water, I rarely see my snails > > surface in my 125 gallon tank which is drastically over filtered for my > > hill stream loaches. > > They eat the most algae as babies (under 1 inch in diameter), they > MIGHT > > eat a little as adults but not much, they eat mostly leftover foods. > And > > they will HOG the leftover foods, trust me ;) They like to stand on it > > to eat it so no one else can get to the food, LOL. Greedy buggers. I'm > > not sure how much algae my big mystery snails eat as they are mostly at > > the surface or on the bottom, rarely on the sides of the tank where the > > algae mostly forms. I watch the young ones eat it though. > > I over feed my tanks because mystery snails will easily die if you do > > not feed them enough, so to be on the safe side I feed a little > extra to > > make sure they have enough left over food to find later. In my 125 > > gallon tank it can be very hard to do this as the tank is so big and > one > > snail can only travel so fast to get to the food ;) I feed that tank > > twice a day just to make sure, as nearly all the snails I've put into > > that tank have either had an accident with my filter intake (got stuck > > to it and didn't recover after I carefully removed them), and I have a > > couple die from mysterious causes (haha, that's a funny term since > > they're called mystery snails). I think the ones that just suddenly > died > > either drowned (didn't get enough air in their lung and couldn't > make it > > to the surface) but I doubt that in such a highly oxygenated tank, or > > they starved to death, which I could easily see happening in such a > > large tank. > > > > Amber > > > > kuradi8 wrote: > > > > > > I got snails for my Bettas. The Mystery Snails didn't look very > > > healthy so I got a Blue Snail for Mom's Betta and an Ivory Snail for > > > each of mine. Mom's Blue Snail is VERY active. He motors around the > > > bowl, up and down the sides. When he climbs, mom's Betta gets VERY > > > agitated. He flares and darts and pecks at the snail. Kala is a young > > > crowntail so no wonder he's such a bully. Hopefully he'll stop soon. > > > > > > My two Ivory Snails are noticeably less active. Chow Mein's snail > > > moves around the bottom and climbs a little before heading back down. > > > Sweet and Sour's snail, however, is lethargic. He moves much more > > > slowly. Is he just lazy? Or still traumatized from the trip home? > > > (Time will tell, I guess.) Neither of my fish are particularly > > > interested in their new roomies. > > > > > > Snail questions: > > > The shells of the Ivory Snails are quite translucent and I can see an > > > air bubble in each. How do they breathe? Do they eventually head > up to > > > the surface and replace the air in their shells? If so, how often do > > > they do that? And what do they eat? Just algae and uneaten Betta > food? > > > Should I drop them a spirulina disk once in a while? A few grains of > > > sinking catfish food? Something else? > > > > > > What else do I need to know? > > > ~Kai > > > > > > > > > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 44321	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 11/8/2009
Subject: Re: Snail Questions

Good pic of the one snail breathing at the surface with it's snorkel... at least that's what I call them as a skin/scuba diver. http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife/photos/album/1062797703/pic/list You'll DEFINITELY want to put some kind of cover on your bowls as the snails will inevitably crawl out and maybe not find their way back in, in time. You'll be able to find their corpse by the smell though... dead snails will give a skunk a run for the money. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of kuradi8 Sent: Sunday, November 08, 2009 2:33 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Snail Questions Since these guys are in Betta Bowls, there is no bubbler or agitation so they'll have to go up to the surface. I just posted a couple of pictures of Mom's Betta, Kala, and a GREAT (if I do say so myself) shot of her snail with his breathing siphon sticking up out of the water. Check out my shots at http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife/photos/album/1062797703/pic/list Also note the happy bubbles (Or should I call them horny bubbles for Harry's benefit?) up at the surface. My snails haven't ventured up there yet but I read that they're nocturnal so maybe they do it on the sly when it's dark. Thanks, Amber, for your good advice. Fortunately, Mom overfeeds poor little Kala so theoretically Tigu ("Snail") will have plenty to eat but I'll also give her some sinking catfish food. ~Kai --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, Amber Berglund <arberglund@...> wrote: > > I've posted this before, but I'll post it again. > www.applesnail.net > They have TONS of info on all kinds of snails, especially mystery > snails, which is what you bought. Mystery snails come in quite a > variety of colors. I have 2 kinds of purple and the ivory ones right > now, breeding me out of tank and home ;) LOL. > If you have enough air circulation in your tank with your filters your > snails may never go to the top for air, as they can breathe under > water too. But if you have a low oxygenation count in your water they > will come to the surface quite often for air (few times a day I > think). They have that air bubble inside their shell (called their > lung) for breathing, they fill it up with air and then go back down under water. > They mostly use this is less oxygenated water, I rarely see my snails > surface in my 125 gallon tank which is drastically over filtered for > my hill stream loaches. > They eat the most algae as babies (under 1 inch in diameter), they > MIGHT eat a little as adults but not much, they eat mostly leftover > foods. And they will HOG the leftover foods, trust me ;) They like to > stand on it to eat it so no one else can get to the food, LOL. Greedy > buggers. I'm not sure how much algae my big mystery snails eat as they > are mostly at the surface or on the bottom, rarely on the sides of the > tank where the algae mostly forms. I watch the young ones eat it though. > I over feed my tanks because mystery snails will easily die if you do > not feed them enough, so to be on the safe side I feed a little extra > to make sure they have enough left over food to find later. In my 125 > gallon tank it can be very hard to do this as the tank is so big and > one snail can only travel so fast to get to the food ;) I feed that > tank twice a day just to make sure, as nearly all the snails I've put > into that tank have either had an accident with my filter intake (got > stuck to it and didn't recover after I carefully removed them), and I > have a couple die from mysterious causes (haha, that's a funny term > since they're called mystery snails). I think the ones that just > suddenly died either drowned (didn't get enough air in their lung and > couldn't make it to the surface) but I doubt that in such a highly > oxygenated tank, or they starved to death, which I could easily see > happening in such a large tank. > > Amber > > kuradi8 wrote: > > > > I got snails for my Bettas. The Mystery Snails didn't look very > > healthy so I got a Blue Snail for Mom's Betta and an Ivory Snail for > > each of mine. Mom's Blue Snail is VERY active. He motors around the > > bowl, up and down the sides. When he climbs, mom's Betta gets VERY > > agitated. He flares and darts and pecks at the snail. Kala is a > > young crowntail so no wonder he's such a bully. Hopefully he'll stop soon. > > > > My two Ivory Snails are noticeably less active. Chow Mein's snail > > moves around the bottom and climbs a little before heading back down. > > Sweet and Sour's snail, however, is lethargic. He moves much more > > slowly. Is he just lazy? Or still traumatized from the trip home? > > (Time will tell, I guess.) Neither of my fish are particularly > > interested in their new roomies. > > > > Snail questions: > > The shells of the Ivory Snails are quite translucent and I can see > > an air bubble in each. How do they breathe? Do they eventually head > > up to the surface and replace the air in their shells? If so, how > > often do they do that? And what do they eat? Just algae and uneaten Betta food? > > Should I drop them a spirulina disk once in a while? A few grains of > > sinking catfish food? Something else? > > > > What else do I need to know? > > ~Kai

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 44322	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 11/8/2009
Subject: Re: Snail Questions

Oh I 2nd that notion! I found a dead snail when I was cleaning a week ago because I could smell something funky and new it was a dead snail. Still not quite sure how it got there, LOL. Haven't found any like that before, or since. Amber Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > > Good pic of the one snail breathing at the surface with it's snorkel... at > least that's what I call them as a skin/scuba diver. > > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife/photos/album/1062797703/pic/list > <http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife/photos/album/1062797703/pic/list> > > You'll DEFINITELY want to put some kind of cover on your bowls as the > snails > will inevitably crawl out and maybe not find their way back in, in time. > You'll be able to find their corpse by the smell though... dead snails > will > give a skunk a run for the money. > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right > side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On > Behalf Of kuradi8 > Sent: Sunday, November 08, 2009 2:33 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Snail Questions > > Since these guys are in Betta Bowls, there is no bubbler or agitation so > they'll have to go up to the surface. I just posted a couple of > pictures of > Mom's Betta, Kala, and a GREAT (if I do say so myself) shot of her snail > with his breathing siphon sticking up out of the water. Check out my shots > at > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife/photos/album/1062797703/pic/list > <http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife/photos/album/1062797703/pic/list> > > > Also note the happy bubbles (Or should I call them horny bubbles for > Harry's > benefit?) up at the surface. My snails haven't ventured up there yet but I > read that they're nocturnal so maybe they do it on the sly when it's dark. > > Thanks, Amber, for your good advice. Fortunately, Mom overfeeds poor > little > Kala so theoretically Tigu ("Snail") will have plenty to eat but I'll also > give her some sinking catfish food. > ~Kai > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>, Amber Berglund > <arberglund@...> wrote: > > > > I've posted this before, but I'll post it again. > > www.applesnail.net > > They have TONS of info on all kinds of snails, especially mystery > > snails, which is what you bought. Mystery snails come in quite a > > variety of colors. I have 2 kinds of purple and the ivory ones right > > now, breeding me out of tank and home ;) LOL. > > If you have enough air circulation in your tank with your filters your > > snails may never go to the top for air, as they can breathe under > > water too. But if you have a low oxygenation count in your water they > > will come to the surface quite often for air (few times a day I > > think). They have that air bubble inside their shell (called their > > lung) for breathing, they fill it up with air and then go back down > under > water. > > They mostly use this is less oxygenated water, I rarely see my snails > > surface in my 125 gallon tank which is drastically over filtered for > > my hill stream loaches. > > They eat the most algae as babies (under 1 inch in diameter), they > > MIGHT eat a little as adults but not much, they eat mostly leftover > > foods. And they will HOG the leftover foods, trust me ;) They like to > > stand on it to eat it so no one else can get to the food, LOL. Greedy > > buggers. I'm not sure how much algae my big mystery snails eat as they > > are mostly at the surface or on the bottom, rarely on the sides of the > > tank where the algae mostly forms. I watch the young ones eat it though. > > I over feed my tanks because mystery snails will easily die if you do > > not feed them enough, so to be on the safe side I feed a little extra > > to make sure they have enough left over food to find later. In my 125 > > gallon tank it can be very hard to do this as the tank is so big and > > one snail can only travel so fast to get to the food ;) I feed that > > tank twice a day just to make sure, as nearly all the snails I've put > > into that tank have either had an accident with my filter intake (got > > stuck to it and didn't recover after I carefully removed them), and I > > have a couple die from mysterious causes (haha, that's a funny term > > since they're called mystery snails). I think the ones that just > > suddenly died either drowned (didn't get enough air in their lung and > > couldn't make it to the surface) but I doubt that in such a highly > > oxygenated tank, or they starved to death, which I could easily see > > happening in such a large tank. > > > > Amber > > > > kuradi8 wrote: > > > > > > I got snails for my Bettas. The Mystery Snails didn't look very > > > healthy so I got a Blue Snail for Mom's Betta and an Ivory Snail for > > > each of mine. Mom's Blue Snail is VERY active. He motors around the > > > bowl, up and down the sides. When he climbs, mom's Betta gets VERY > > > agitated. He flares and darts and pecks at the snail. Kala is a > > > young crowntail so no wonder he's such a bully. Hopefully he'll stop > soon. > > > > > > My two Ivory Snails are noticeably less active. Chow Mein's snail > > > moves around the bottom and climbs a little before heading back down. > > > Sweet and Sour's snail, however, is lethargic. He moves much more > > > slowly. Is he just lazy? Or still traumatized from the trip home? > > > (Time will tell, I guess.) Neither of my fish are particularly > > > interested in their new roomies. > > > > > > Snail questions: > > > The shells of the Ivory Snails are quite translucent and I can see > > > an air bubble in each. How do they breathe? Do they eventually head > > > up to the surface and replace the air in their shells? If so, how > > > often do they do that? And what do they eat? Just algae and uneaten > Betta food? > > > Should I drop them a spirulina disk once in a while? A few grains of > > > sinking catfish food? Something else? > > > > > > What else do I need to know? > > > ~Kai > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 44323	From: harry perry	Date: 11/8/2009
Subject: Re: Snail Questions/Kai

I saw the photos. He doesn't look happy to me. I think he needs at least a 10 gal. tank and a girlfriend. Then he won't be wasting his horny bubbles. Harry  --- On Sun, 11/8/09, kuradi8 <kuradi8@...> wrote: From: kuradi8 <kuradi8@...> Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Snail Questions To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Date: Sunday, November 8, 2009, 3:33 PM   Since these guys are in Betta Bowls, there is no bubbler or agitation so they'll have to go up to the surface. I just posted a couple of pictures of Mom's Betta, Kala, and a GREAT (if I do say so myself) shot of her snail with his breathing siphon sticking up out of the water. Check out my shots at http://groups. yahoo.com/ group/AquaticLif e/photos/ album/1062797703 /pic/list Also note the happy bubbles (Or should I call them horny bubbles for Harry's benefit?) up at the surface. My snails haven't ventured up there yet but I read that they're nocturnal so maybe they do it on the sly when it's dark. Thanks, Amber, for your good advice. Fortunately, Mom overfeeds poor little Kala so theoretically Tigu ("Snail") will have plenty to eat but I'll also give her some sinking catfish food. ~Kai --- In AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com, Amber Berglund <arberglund@ ...> wrote: > > I've posted this before, but I'll post it again. > www.applesnail. net > They have TONS of info on all kinds of snails, especially mystery > snails, which is what you bought. Mystery snails come in quite a variety > of colors. I have 2 kinds of purple and the ivory ones right now, > breeding me out of tank and home ;) LOL. > If you have enough air circulation in your tank with your filters your > snails may never go to the top for air, as they can breathe under water > too. But if you have a low oxygenation count in your water they will > come to the surface quite often for air (few times a day I think). They > have that air bubble inside their shell (called their lung) for > breathing, they fill it up with air and then go back down under water. > They mostly use this is less oxygenated water, I rarely see my snails > surface in my 125 gallon tank which is drastically over filtered for my > hill stream loaches. > They eat the most algae as babies (under 1 inch in diameter), they MIGHT > eat a little as adults but not much, they eat mostly leftover foods. And > they will HOG the leftover foods, trust me ;) They like to stand on it > to eat it so no one else can get to the food, LOL. Greedy buggers. I'm > not sure how much algae my big mystery snails eat as they are mostly at > the surface or on the bottom, rarely on the sides of the tank where the > algae mostly forms. I watch the young ones eat it though. > I over feed my tanks because mystery snails will easily die if you do > not feed them enough, so to be on the safe side I feed a little extra to > make sure they have enough left over food to find later. In my 125 > gallon tank it can be very hard to do this as the tank is so big and one > snail can only travel so fast to get to the food ;) I feed that tank > twice a day just to make sure, as nearly all the snails I've put into > that tank have either had an accident with my filter intake (got stuck > to it and didn't recover after I carefully removed them), and I have a > couple die from mysterious causes (haha, that's a funny term since > they're called mystery snails). I think the ones that just suddenly died > either drowned (didn't get enough air in their lung and couldn't make it > to the surface) but I doubt that in such a highly oxygenated tank, or > they starved to death, which I could easily see happening in such a > large tank. > > Amber > > kuradi8 wrote: > > > > I got snails for my Bettas. The Mystery Snails didn't look very > > healthy so I got a Blue Snail for Mom's Betta and an Ivory Snail for > > each of mine. Mom's Blue Snail is VERY active. He motors around the > > bowl, up and down the sides. When he climbs, mom's Betta gets VERY > > agitated. He flares and darts and pecks at the snail. Kala is a young > > crowntail so no wonder he's such a bully. Hopefully he'll stop soon. > > > > My two Ivory Snails are noticeably less active. Chow Mein's snail > > moves around the bottom and climbs a little before heading back down. > > Sweet and Sour's snail, however, is lethargic. He moves much more > > slowly. Is he just lazy? Or still traumatized from the trip home? > > (Time will tell, I guess.) Neither of my fish are particularly > > interested in their new roomies. > > > > Snail questions: > > The shells of the Ivory Snails are quite translucent and I can see an > > air bubble in each. How do they breathe? Do they eventually head up to > > the surface and replace the air in their shells? If so, how often do > > they do that? And what do they eat? Just algae and uneaten Betta food? > > Should I drop them a spirulina disk once in a while? A few grains of > > sinking catfish food? Something else? > > > > What else do I need to know? > > ~Kai > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 44324	From: kuradi8	Date: 11/8/2009
Subject: [Bulk] RE: [AquaticLife] Re: Algae/Betta Bowl

Have no fear, Donna, he's in a gallon-ish "bowl" (versus a "tank" which implies filters, etc.) He's in a studio apartment, not locked in a closet. I'm keeping my eye out for a larger condo -- preferably at Salvation Army prices versus retail. :o) ~Kai --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, Donna Ransome <djransome@...> wrote: > > I don't think anyone is trying to talk you out of a bowl Dora, but making > sure Kai has all the facts. > > > > _____ > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On > Behalf Of Dora Smith > Sent: Sunday, November 08, 2009 8:38 AM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Subject: Re: [Bulk] RE: [AquaticLife] Re: Algae/Betta Bowl > > > > > > My betta lives in a bowl, and he's STAYING in a bowl, Lennie, END OF > SUBJECT. > > Yours, > Dora Smith > Austin, TX > tiggernut24@ <mailto:tiggernut24%40yahoo.com> yahoo.com > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@gmail. > <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com> com> > To: <AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com> > Sent: Saturday, November 07, 2009 2:17 PM > Subject: [Bulk] RE: [AquaticLife] Re: Algae/Betta Bowl > > UH OH... I see a can of worms... and I've got my can opener ready! LOL > > Yes, they "CAN" live in a bowl but that doesn't mean they should live in a > bowl. This would be analogous to saying a family of four "CAN" live in an > 8' x 8' room with a hole in the ground for a toilet... but that doesn't mean > they *should* live in that type of home. It also doesn't mean that the > government should create another government program to give larger homes to > people that can't afford them out of their own income. LOL > > Doing a 25% PWC every day and using a small algae scrubber on the inside of > the glass and then siphoning the gravel at least once a week or more, as > needed, will go a long way to improving the water quality and thus lessening > the algae growth. > > Also see my other reply before this one. > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> blogspot.com > (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right > side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com > [mailto:AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com] > On > Behalf Of kuradi8 > Sent: Saturday, November 07, 2009 11:06 AM > To: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Algae/Betta Bowl > > Because Bettas are surface breathers, they CAN live in bowls. (Bowls > meaning they don't need aeration.) The one he's in isn't "small" but I'm on > the lookout for a larger one or small tank, preferably at a Salvation Army > price. > > Cleaning the bowl every day would mean too much of a water change and that > would screw up his little ecosystem, having the water cycling all the time. > ~Kai > > --- Harry wrote: > > > > Clean the bowl every day and explain to Momma fish don't belong in bowls. > A small tank is cheap at Walmart. > > Harry > > > > --- On Sat, 11/7/09, Dora Smith <tiggernut24@> wrote: > > > > > > Sounds like someone has to go over to Momma's house every once in a > while and clean the bowl. > > > > Yours, > > > > Dora Smith > > > > Austin, TX > > > > tiggernut24@ yahoo.com > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > > > > I got Mom a Betta a month or two back and his bowl is under the big > > table > > > > lamp that she uses to read -- all day. So no wonder his bowl gets > > bright > > > > green with algae growth. The answer is to move his bowl but no, it's > > the > > > > most convenient place and she likes having him there. > > > > > > > > I mentioned getting a snail but someone replied that Mystery Snails > > don't > > > > eat algae -- they eat the food that falls to the bottom. But other > > posts > > > > say they DO eat algae. > > > > > > > > So which is it? And will s/he eat enough of it to keep Kala's algae > > problem > > > > kinda-sorta under control? > > > > > > > > It's not easy being greeeeeeeen. .. > > > > ~Kai > > ------------------------------------ > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. > ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> > PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to > the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT > > LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- > <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. > > If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of unsubscribing, you > can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the > home page. > > Or e-mail aquaticlife- <mailto:aquaticlife-digest%40yahoogroups.com> > digest@yahoogroups.com to receive the digest, which > includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email > > Or email aquaticlife- <mailto:aquaticlife-nomail%40yahoogroups.com> > nomail@yahoogroups.com for the No E-Mail option where > you will still be able to read messages on the group and post replies. > > Or email aquaticlife- <mailto:aquaticlife-normal%40yahoogroups.com> > normal@yahoogroups.com to receive individual > e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 44325	From: kuradi8	Date: 11/8/2009
Subject: Re: Snail Questions

Holy cow! Yes, LOTS of pictures. The purple is VERY eye-catching and stands out beautifully against the green of the plants. What do you suggest to harden the water? Cichlid forums say to use baking soda instead of high priced aquariums but I think that's too much salt. How about adding a clam shell into each bowl? Marble/limestone gravel? There are covers on all three bowls. They're clear. Look carefully and you'll see it on the shot of the snail. ~Kai --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, Amber Berglund <arberglund@...> wrote: > > That's probably where her algae is coming from on the glass (over > feeding), but hopefully this will help, if not it's just going to cause > an early death for a snail if her water is not hard enough. > They will not survive very long in soft water, it eats holes into their > shells and they end up dead eventually. I had to add stuff to my filters > to raise my hardness levels just so I could actually keep snails and > shrimp in my tanks. > Also one thing to keep in mind, make sure to watch the snails if they > are laying on the gravel and look like they're reaching for things to > try to pull them up and walk to the surface, but they appear too heavy > to move. This means they have a water filled lung and they need > assistance. I have lost a couple snails to this problem this year. Just > pull them out of the water for a few minutes or so (you can let them sit > on your hand that's fine) and wait until it spits out all that water and > starts to suck in air, once they feel lighter (they will feel very heavy > with water inside them, like a little rock), it's safe to put them back, > but I usually put mine near the surface on one of my floating plants > just in case it's not ready to go in the water (needs more air, etc). > If you're not sure just set them in a small bowl with just a tiny bit of > water (so it wets the bowl but does not cover the snail at all, so you > don't drown him/her more, LOL), and give it a little while, once it > starts to crawl around the bowl it should have enough air in it's lung > to go back in the tank. > I'm not sure why this happens in my tank but every now and then (like > every other month) I notice a snail having trouble on the bottom and I > have to pull it out to breathe. Sometimes I don't catch it in time and > they drown :( That's usually while I'm at work, and I come back to a > dead snail instead :( > > And yes, you have mystery snails from what I can see, either that or > they are one of the larger varieties and it's just a baby, but that > looks like an adult mystery snail to me. > Here's some pics of all my snails (there are a lot, LOL). > > http://www.flickr.com/photos/spamber/sets/72157621157741856/ > > Amber > > kuradi8 wrote: > > > > Since these guys are in Betta Bowls, there is no bubbler or agitation > > so they'll have to go up to the surface. I just posted a couple of > > pictures of Mom's Betta, Kala, and a GREAT (if I do say so myself) > > shot of her snail with his breathing siphon sticking up out of the > > water. Check out my shots at > > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife/photos/album/1062797703/pic/list > > <http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife/photos/album/1062797703/pic/list> > > > > > > Also note the happy bubbles (Or should I call them horny bubbles for > > Harry's benefit?) up at the surface. My snails haven't ventured up > > there yet but I read that they're nocturnal so maybe they do it on the > > sly when it's dark. > > > > Thanks, Amber, for your good advice. Fortunately, Mom overfeeds poor > > little Kala so theoretically Tigu ("Snail") will have plenty to eat > > but I'll also give her some sinking catfish food. > > ~Kai > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>, Amber Berglund > > <arberglund@> wrote: > > > > > > I've posted this before, but I'll post it again. > > > www.applesnail.net > > > They have TONS of info on all kinds of snails, especially mystery > > > snails, which is what you bought. Mystery snails come in quite a > > variety > > > of colors. I have 2 kinds of purple and the ivory ones right now, > > > breeding me out of tank and home ;) LOL. > > > If you have enough air circulation in your tank with your filters your > > > snails may never go to the top for air, as they can breathe under water > > > too. But if you have a low oxygenation count in your water they will > > > come to the surface quite often for air (few times a day I think). They > > > have that air bubble inside their shell (called their lung) for > > > breathing, they fill it up with air and then go back down under water. > > > They mostly use this is less oxygenated water, I rarely see my snails > > > surface in my 125 gallon tank which is drastically over filtered for my > > > hill stream loaches. > > > They eat the most algae as babies (under 1 inch in diameter), they > > MIGHT > > > eat a little as adults but not much, they eat mostly leftover foods. > > And > > > they will HOG the leftover foods, trust me ;) They like to stand on it > > > to eat it so no one else can get to the food, LOL. Greedy buggers. I'm > > > not sure how much algae my big mystery snails eat as they are mostly at > > > the surface or on the bottom, rarely on the sides of the tank where the > > > algae mostly forms. I watch the young ones eat it though. > > > I over feed my tanks because mystery snails will easily die if you do > > > not feed them enough, so to be on the safe side I feed a little > > extra to > > > make sure they have enough left over food to find later. In my 125 > > > gallon tank it can be very hard to do this as the tank is so big and > > one > > > snail can only travel so fast to get to the food ;) I feed that tank > > > twice a day just to make sure, as nearly all the snails I've put into > > > that tank have either had an accident with my filter intake (got stuck > > > to it and didn't recover after I carefully removed them), and I have a > > > couple die from mysterious causes (haha, that's a funny term since > > > they're called mystery snails). I think the ones that just suddenly > > died > > > either drowned (didn't get enough air in their lung and couldn't > > make it > > > to the surface) but I doubt that in such a highly oxygenated tank, or > > > they starved to death, which I could easily see happening in such a > > > large tank. > > > > > > Amber > > > > > > kuradi8 wrote: > > > > > > > > I got snails for my Bettas. The Mystery Snails didn't look very > > > > healthy so I got a Blue Snail for Mom's Betta and an Ivory Snail for > > > > each of mine. Mom's Blue Snail is VERY active. He motors around the > > > > bowl, up and down the sides. When he climbs, mom's Betta gets VERY > > > > agitated. He flares and darts and pecks at the snail. Kala is a young > > > > crowntail so no wonder he's such a bully. Hopefully he'll stop soon. > > > > > > > > My two Ivory Snails are noticeably less active. Chow Mein's snail > > > > moves around the bottom and climbs a little before heading back down. > > > > Sweet and Sour's snail, however, is lethargic. He moves much more > > > > slowly. Is he just lazy? Or still traumatized from the trip home? > > > > (Time will tell, I guess.) Neither of my fish are particularly > > > > interested in their new roomies. > > > > > > > > Snail questions: > > > > The shells of the Ivory Snails are quite translucent and I can see an > > > > air bubble in each. How do they breathe? Do they eventually head > > up to > > > > the surface and replace the air in their shells? If so, how often do > > > > they do that? And what do they eat? Just algae and uneaten Betta > > food? > > > > Should I drop them a spirulina disk once in a while? A few grains of > > > > sinking catfish food? Something else? > > > > > > > > What else do I need to know? > > > > ~Kai > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 44326	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 11/8/2009
Subject: Re: Snail Questions

I used crushed coral (like the kind you get for substrate for salt water aquariums), it came free with the 125 gallon tank so I have TONS of it to use, probably last me over a year, LOL. You can also get cuttle bones from places like Walmart and local pet stores that carry bird products. Just place a chunk of it in your filter and replace when it has fully dissolved. Just keep an eye on your KH and GH when you do this, don't want it to go too high. Amber kuradi8 wrote: > > Holy cow! Yes, LOTS of pictures. The purple is VERY eye-catching and > stands out beautifully against the green of the plants. > > What do you suggest to harden the water? Cichlid forums say to use > baking soda instead of high priced aquariums but I think that's too > much salt. How about adding a clam shell into each bowl? > Marble/limestone gravel? > > There are covers on all three bowls. They're clear. Look carefully and > you'll see it on the shot of the snail. > ~Kai > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>, Amber Berglund > <arberglund@...> wrote: > > > > That's probably where her algae is coming from on the glass (over > > feeding), but hopefully this will help, if not it's just going to cause > > an early death for a snail if her water is not hard enough. > > They will not survive very long in soft water, it eats holes into their > > shells and they end up dead eventually. I had to add stuff to my > filters > > to raise my hardness levels just so I could actually keep snails and > > shrimp in my tanks. > > Also one thing to keep in mind, make sure to watch the snails if they > > are laying on the gravel and look like they're reaching for things to > > try to pull them up and walk to the surface, but they appear too heavy > > to move. This means they have a water filled lung and they need > > assistance. I have lost a couple snails to this problem this year. Just > > pull them out of the water for a few minutes or so (you can let them > sit > > on your hand that's fine) and wait until it spits out all that water > and > > starts to suck in air, once they feel lighter (they will feel very > heavy > > with water inside them, like a little rock), it's safe to put them > back, > > but I usually put mine near the surface on one of my floating plants > > just in case it's not ready to go in the water (needs more air, etc). > > If you're not sure just set them in a small bowl with just a tiny > bit of > > water (so it wets the bowl but does not cover the snail at all, so you > > don't drown him/her more, LOL), and give it a little while, once it > > starts to crawl around the bowl it should have enough air in it's lung > > to go back in the tank. > > I'm not sure why this happens in my tank but every now and then (like > > every other month) I notice a snail having trouble on the bottom and I > > have to pull it out to breathe. Sometimes I don't catch it in time and > > they drown :( That's usually while I'm at work, and I come back to a > > dead snail instead :( > > > > And yes, you have mystery snails from what I can see, either that or > > they are one of the larger varieties and it's just a baby, but that > > looks like an adult mystery snail to me. > > Here's some pics of all my snails (there are a lot, LOL). > > > > http://www.flickr.com/photos/spamber/sets/72157621157741856/ > <http://www.flickr.com/photos/spamber/sets/72157621157741856/> > > > > Amber > > > > kuradi8 wrote: > > > > > > Since these guys are in Betta Bowls, there is no bubbler or agitation > > > so they'll have to go up to the surface. I just posted a couple of > > > pictures of Mom's Betta, Kala, and a GREAT (if I do say so myself) > > > shot of her snail with his breathing siphon sticking up out of the > > > water. Check out my shots at > > > > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife/photos/album/1062797703/pic/list > <http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife/photos/album/1062797703/pic/list> > > > > > <http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife/photos/album/1062797703/pic/list > <http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife/photos/album/1062797703/pic/list>> > > > > > > > > > > Also note the happy bubbles (Or should I call them horny bubbles for > > > Harry's benefit?) up at the surface. My snails haven't ventured up > > > there yet but I read that they're nocturnal so maybe they do it on > the > > > sly when it's dark. > > > > > > Thanks, Amber, for your good advice. Fortunately, Mom overfeeds poor > > > little Kala so theoretically Tigu ("Snail") will have plenty to eat > > > but I'll also give her some sinking catfish food. > > > ~Kai > > > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>, Amber Berglund > > > <arberglund@> wrote: > > > > > > > > I've posted this before, but I'll post it again. > > > > www.applesnail.net > > > > They have TONS of info on all kinds of snails, especially mystery > > > > snails, which is what you bought. Mystery snails come in quite a > > > variety > > > > of colors. I have 2 kinds of purple and the ivory ones right now, > > > > breeding me out of tank and home ;) LOL. > > > > If you have enough air circulation in your tank with your > filters your > > > > snails may never go to the top for air, as they can breathe > under water > > > > too. But if you have a low oxygenation count in your water they will > > > > come to the surface quite often for air (few times a day I > think). They > > > > have that air bubble inside their shell (called their lung) for > > > > breathing, they fill it up with air and then go back down under > water. > > > > They mostly use this is less oxygenated water, I rarely see my > snails > > > > surface in my 125 gallon tank which is drastically over filtered > for my > > > > hill stream loaches. > > > > They eat the most algae as babies (under 1 inch in diameter), they > > > MIGHT > > > > eat a little as adults but not much, they eat mostly leftover > foods. > > > And > > > > they will HOG the leftover foods, trust me ;) They like to stand > on it > > > > to eat it so no one else can get to the food, LOL. Greedy > buggers. I'm > > > > not sure how much algae my big mystery snails eat as they are > mostly at > > > > the surface or on the bottom, rarely on the sides of the tank > where the > > > > algae mostly forms. I watch the young ones eat it though. > > > > I over feed my tanks because mystery snails will easily die if > you do > > > > not feed them enough, so to be on the safe side I feed a little > > > extra to > > > > make sure they have enough left over food to find later. In my 125 > > > > gallon tank it can be very hard to do this as the tank is so big > and > > > one > > > > snail can only travel so fast to get to the food ;) I feed that tank > > > > twice a day just to make sure, as nearly all the snails I've put > into > > > > that tank have either had an accident with my filter intake (got > stuck > > > > to it and didn't recover after I carefully removed them), and I > have a > > > > couple die from mysterious causes (haha, that's a funny term since > > > > they're called mystery snails). I think the ones that just suddenly > > > died > > > > either drowned (didn't get enough air in their lung and couldn't > > > make it > > > > to the surface) but I doubt that in such a highly oxygenated > tank, or > > > > they starved to death, which I could easily see happening in such a > > > > large tank. > > > > > > > > Amber > > > > > > > > kuradi8 wrote: > > > > > > > > > > I got snails for my Bettas. The Mystery Snails didn't look very > > > > > healthy so I got a Blue Snail for Mom's Betta and an Ivory > Snail for > > > > > each of mine. Mom's Blue Snail is VERY active. He motors > around the > > > > > bowl, up and down the sides. When he climbs, mom's Betta gets VERY > > > > > agitated. He flares and darts and pecks at the snail. Kala is > a young > > > > > crowntail so no wonder he's such a bully. Hopefully he'll stop > soon. > > > > > > > > > > My two Ivory Snails are noticeably less active. Chow Mein's snail > > > > > moves around the bottom and climbs a little before heading > back down. > > > > > Sweet and Sour's snail, however, is lethargic. He moves much more > > > > > slowly. Is he just lazy? Or still traumatized from the trip home? > > > > > (Time will tell, I guess.) Neither of my fish are particularly > > > > > interested in their new roomies. > > > > > > > > > > Snail questions: > > > > > The shells of the Ivory Snails are quite translucent and I can > see an > > > > > air bubble in each. How do they breathe? Do they eventually head > > > up to > > > > > the surface and replace the air in their shells? If so, how > often do > > > > > they do that? And what do they eat? Just algae and uneaten Betta > > > food? > > > > > Should I drop them a spirulina disk once in a while? A few > grains of > > > > > sinking catfish food? Something else? > > > > > > > > > > What else do I need to know? > > > > > ~Kai > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 44327	From: kuradi8	Date: 11/8/2009
Subject: Re: Snail Questions/Kai

Tee hee, yeah, that was his "tough guy" look. He did NOT like the flash on my camera. HAHAHAHA! No, no girlfriend for him. Crowntails are particularly aggressive and I can tell that he is a meanie just by the way he has been tormenting the snail. That makes them difficult to breed because they'd rather fight than [bad word.] Kala will remain a bachelor. ~Kai --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, harry perry <harryfisherman@...> wrote: > > I saw the photos. He doesn't look happy to me. I think he needs at least a 10 gal. tank and a girlfriend. Then he won't be wasting his horny bubbles. > Harry > > --- On Sun, 11/8/09, kuradi8 <kuradi8@...> wrote: > > From: kuradi8 <kuradi8@...> > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Snail Questions > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Date: Sunday, November 8, 2009, 3:33 PM > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Â > > > > > > > > > > Since these guys are in Betta Bowls, there is no bubbler or agitation so they'll have to go up to the surface. I just posted a couple of pictures of Mom's Betta, Kala, and a GREAT (if I do say so myself) shot of her snail with his breathing siphon sticking up out of the water. Check out my shots at http://groups. yahoo.com/ group/AquaticLif e/photos/ album/1062797703 /pic/list > > > > Also note the happy bubbles (Or should I call them horny bubbles for Harry's benefit?) up at the surface. My snails haven't ventured up there yet but I read that they're nocturnal so maybe they do it on the sly when it's dark. > > > > Thanks, Amber, for your good advice. Fortunately, Mom overfeeds poor little Kala so theoretically Tigu ("Snail") will have plenty to eat but I'll also give her some sinking catfish food. > > ~Kai > > > > --- In AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com, Amber Berglund <arberglund@ ...> wrote: > > > > > > I've posted this before, but I'll post it again. > > > www.applesnail. net > > > They have TONS of info on all kinds of snails, especially mystery > > > snails, which is what you bought. Mystery snails come in quite a variety > > > of colors. I have 2 kinds of purple and the ivory ones right now, > > > breeding me out of tank and home ;) LOL. > > > If you have enough air circulation in your tank with your filters your > > > snails may never go to the top for air, as they can breathe under water > > > too. But if you have a low oxygenation count in your water they will > > > come to the surface quite often for air (few times a day I think). They > > > have that air bubble inside their shell (called their lung) for > > > breathing, they fill it up with air and then go back down under water. > > > They mostly use this is less oxygenated water, I rarely see my snails > > > surface in my 125 gallon tank which is drastically over filtered for my > > > hill stream loaches. > > > They eat the most algae as babies (under 1 inch in diameter), they MIGHT > > > eat a little as adults but not much, they eat mostly leftover foods. And > > > they will HOG the leftover foods, trust me ;) They like to stand on it > > > to eat it so no one else can get to the food, LOL. Greedy buggers. I'm > > > not sure how much algae my big mystery snails eat as they are mostly at > > > the surface or on the bottom, rarely on the sides of the tank where the > > > algae mostly forms. I watch the young ones eat it though. > > > I over feed my tanks because mystery snails will easily die if you do > > > not feed them enough, so to be on the safe side I feed a little extra to > > > make sure they have enough left over food to find later. In my 125 > > > gallon tank it can be very hard to do this as the tank is so big and one > > > snail can only travel so fast to get to the food ;) I feed that tank > > > twice a day just to make sure, as nearly all the snails I've put into > > > that tank have either had an accident with my filter intake (got stuck > > > to it and didn't recover after I carefully removed them), and I have a > > > couple die from mysterious causes (haha, that's a funny term since > > > they're called mystery snails). I think the ones that just suddenly died > > > either drowned (didn't get enough air in their lung and couldn't make it > > > to the surface) but I doubt that in such a highly oxygenated tank, or > > > they starved to death, which I could easily see happening in such a > > > large tank. > > > > > > Amber > > > > > > kuradi8 wrote: > > > > > > > > I got snails for my Bettas. The Mystery Snails didn't look very > > > > healthy so I got a Blue Snail for Mom's Betta and an Ivory Snail for > > > > each of mine. Mom's Blue Snail is VERY active. He motors around the > > > > bowl, up and down the sides. When he climbs, mom's Betta gets VERY > > > > agitated. He flares and darts and pecks at the snail. Kala is a young > > > > crowntail so no wonder he's such a bully. Hopefully he'll stop soon. > > > > > > > > My two Ivory Snails are noticeably less active. Chow Mein's snail > > > > moves around the bottom and climbs a little before heading back down. > > > > Sweet and Sour's snail, however, is lethargic. He moves much more > > > > slowly. Is he just lazy? Or still traumatized from the trip home? > > > > (Time will tell, I guess.) Neither of my fish are particularly > > > > interested in their new roomies. > > > > > > > > Snail questions: > > > > The shells of the Ivory Snails are quite translucent and I can see an > > > > air bubble in each. How do they breathe? Do they eventually head up to > > > > the surface and replace the air in their shells? If so, how often do > > > > they do that? And what do they eat? Just algae and uneaten Betta food? > > > > Should I drop them a spirulina disk once in a while? A few grains of > > > > sinking catfish food? Something else? > > > > > > > > What else do I need to know? > > > > ~Kai > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 44328	From: Cheryl Ellison	Date: 11/8/2009
Subject: Re: [Bulk] RE: [AquaticLife] Re: Algae/Betta Bowl

No fish harassing her, she just seemed freaked out by the space. She just huddled in the corner for the longest time and once she figured out how to escape into the sump she would immediately head back there the minute I put her back in the tank, we did this several times before I gave up. The sump area she is in is really small, smaller than a bowl or tank I would keep her in, my sump is built in and sectioned off into several compartments. I basically just have tetra's in my tank, neon's, head and tail lights, and some guppies etc...and lots of plants. I think they (betta's) like the security of the smaller space. Females are not much less territorial than males either, they do best by themselves. I do think that they need at least 1/2 gallon or more to live in. But 90 gallons is just too much. I am going to fish her out again once I get a suitable place for her to live, in the meantime I will let her live in the sump. In the wild betta's are found in shallow rice patties, puddles and swamps. So a small tank or large bowl with clean water is definitely better than that. Cheryl from Seattle http://cherylshtuff.blogspot.com/ ----- Original Message ----- From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Sunday, November 08, 2009 12:26 PM Subject: RE: [Bulk] RE: [AquaticLife] Re: Algae/Betta Bowl Your female Betta in the 90G may be disturbed by the presumably higher water movement that I would presume took place in a 90G tank. They come from slow moving to stagnant waters in the wild. I'm not sure where you get that Bettta's prefer smaller areas to live? Yes, they will establish a territory but they still like to swim around... and not just in a 6" circle. The last Betta I had, which I rescued from a flooded Katrina home in a 1 qt. vase, was moved to a 1.5G vase and eventually into a 10G planted tank and he swam around and explored the entire tank on a regular basis. Yes, male Bettas are often solitary since they are aggressive to other males and often aggressive to females as well but just because they are grumpy old men, it does not mean they only want to live in a closet of a home. Even grumpy old men (like Bill) like a full sized home... even though he may spend most of his time in the recliner watching TV. ;-) Did you possibly have another fish that was harassing her? That's always a possibility with fish with longer, flowing fins. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Cheryl Ellison Sent: Sunday, November 08, 2009 12:31 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [Bulk] RE: [AquaticLife] Re: Algae/Betta Bowl Betta's actually prefer smaller areas to live. They are very solitary fish, they don't really enjoy the company of other fish and they don't like a lot of water movement, bowls and small tanks are perfect for them as long as the water is changed regularly. They also like plants. I have unsuccessfully tried to keep a female betta in my 90 gallon community tank and she is just miserable in there, she keeps jumping through the overflow into my sump and I fish her out and put her back in the main tank and she just heads right back to the sump, so I am leaving her there for now and will probably move her to a bowl or small tank all by herself. I really thought she might enjoy the freedom to move through my heavily planted tank, but obviously she didn't like it. Cheryl from Seattle http://cherylshtuff.blogspot.com/ ----- Original Message ----- From: Dora Smith To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Sunday, November 08, 2009 5:37 AM Subject: Re: [Bulk] RE: [AquaticLife] Re: Algae/Betta Bowl My betta lives in a bowl, and he's STAYING in a bowl, Lennie, END OF SUBJECT. Yours, Dora Smith Austin, TX tiggernut24@... ----- Original Message ----- From: "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@...> To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Saturday, November 07, 2009 2:17 PM Subject: [Bulk] RE: [AquaticLife] Re: Algae/Betta Bowl UH OH... I see a can of worms... and I've got my can opener ready! LOL Yes, they "CAN" live in a bowl but that doesn't mean they should live in a bowl. This would be analogous to saying a family of four "CAN" live in an 8' x 8' room with a hole in the ground for a toilet... but that doesn't mean they *should* live in that type of home. It also doesn't mean that the government should create another government program to give larger homes to people that can't afford them out of their own income. LOL Doing a 25% PWC every day and using a small algae scrubber on the inside of the glass and then siphoning the gravel at least once a week or more, as needed, will go a long way to improving the water quality and thus lessening the algae growth. Also see my other reply before this one. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of kuradi8 Sent: Saturday, November 07, 2009 11:06 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Algae/Betta Bowl Because Bettas are surface breathers, they CAN live in bowls. (Bowls meaning they don't need aeration.) The one he's in isn't "small" but I'm on the lookout for a larger one or small tank, preferably at a Salvation Army price. Cleaning the bowl every day would mean too much of a water change and that would screw up his little ecosystem, having the water cycling all the time. ~Kai --- Harry wrote: > > Clean the bowl every day and explain to Momma fish don't belong in bowls. A small tank is cheap at Walmart. > Harry > > --- On Sat, 11/7/09, Dora Smith <tiggernut24@...> wrote: > > > Sounds like someone has to go over to Momma's house every once in a while and clean the bowl. > > Yours, > > Dora Smith > > Austin, TX > > tiggernut24@ yahoo.com > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > I got Mom a Betta a month or two back and his bowl is under the big > table > > lamp that she uses to read -- all day. So no wonder his bowl gets > bright > > green with algae growth. The answer is to move his bowl but no, it's > the > > most convenient place and she likes having him there. > > > > I mentioned getting a snail but someone replied that Mystery Snails > don't > > eat algae -- they eat the food that falls to the bottom. But other > posts > > say they DO eat algae. > > > > So which is it? And will s/he eat enough of it to keep Kala's algae > problem > > kinda-sorta under control? > > > > It's not easy being greeeeeeeen. .. > > ~Kai [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 44329	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 11/8/2009
Subject: Re: wisteria/lighting previous question/response revisited

Bill, Yeah, but you know what you are kickin' for? Or, what you're kickin' at? \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of bill 1433 Sent: Sunday, November 08, 2009 3:35 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: wisteria/lighting previous question/response revisited NOT!!! Sorry Len, you're wrong this time. The guy that made the post went into detail about how to construct the lights for incandescent or will type of ballast will work best for florescent tubes. He also talked about the general hooking up of everything including what size electrical wire inside the light housing. This guy new what he was talking about as he is a electrician by trade. Off hand this posting was made to the group about 2 or 3 months ago. Although the link is informative, that's not it. This gentlemen showed you how to do all this WITHOUT kits. Still kickin' Bill --- On Sun, 11/8/09, Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@...> wrote: > From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@...> > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: wisteria/lighting previous question/response revisited > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Date: Sunday, November 8, 2009, 1:04 PM > Well at least, we now know it was a > recent post, which is why it's not > showing up on the search engines yet.  Ol' Bill > couldn't have remembered it > if it was too long ago. LOL  Sorry Bill... couldn't > resist! LOL > > The link to the commonly referred DIY aquarium lighting > site is > http://www.AHSupply.com > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed > on the right > side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives > by Year, Month) > > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] > On > Behalf Of bill 1433 > Sent: Sunday, November 08, 2009 8:08 AM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: wisteria/lighting previous > question/response > revisited > > We must be on the same groups Erika.  I can remember > the post but not the > "who" or "where" part of it.  As I recall he also > mentions about building > his own lights and how.  I lost the post and his link > too! > > Bill > > --- On Sun, 11/8/09, erikaandnewton <e.isme@...> > wrote: > > > From: erikaandnewton <e.isme@...> > > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: wisteria/lighting previous > > > question/response revisited > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > Date: Sunday, November 8, 2009, 6:34 AM > > > > you know lenny, i might just be a total moron. I might > have asked that > > on a totally different list, maybe plant geek or > something. I just > > copied and pasted so i could add it to my folder of > fish info and have > > something to take to the store with me when i went > plant shopping. > > My question is, he mentions possibly being able to > find similar lights > > already assembled. I was wondering where i might look > for them as i > > can't see me building a housing with a fan to put > those in. or for > > that matter figuring out how to put the light together > in the first > > place. > > > > erika newark de usa > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, > > "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@...> wrote: > > > > > > Looks like Ray's writing to me... but I could be > > wrong.  I regularly refer > > > folks to the AHSupply.com site but the rest of > the > > post doesn't look like > > > mine. > > > > > > You could always Google one of the sentences and > see > > what Google finds... > > > such as.... hmmmmm.. that's strange.  Google > > didn't find any of that post. > > > Are you sure that was posted to the group and not > just > > sent to you off-list? > > > > > > > > > How did you have all of that text but not know > who > > gave it to you?  Did you > > > copy/paste the info from a website or email or > > what??? > > > > > > What questions did you have? > > > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles > > > referenced in above reply are > > listed on the right > > > side, alphabetically under Labels and also under > > Archives by Year, Month) > > > > > > > > >  > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] > > On > > > Behalf Of erikaandnewton > > > Sent: Saturday, November 07, 2009 12:28 PM > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > > Subject: [AquaticLife] wisteria/lighting > previous > > question/response > > > revisited > > > > > > ok, i've looked through the archives for posts > made by > > me, and can't find > > > the post that this response was in reference to: > > > > > > ""First make sure that you have "water sprite" ( > > Ceratopteris thalictroides) > > > rather than Hygrophila difformis AKA "Water > Wisteria"- > > They can be confused. > > > The easiest way to tell them apart is just by > seeing > > how the new leaves > > > form. In true fern like way, the water sprite > will > > unfurl a new branch and > > > set of leaves, while the wisteria will grow out > new > > leaves like most plants > > > and trees. > > > For the 75 gallon, I would recommend a minimum of > 100 > > watts of full spectrum > > > lighting on for at least 10 hours each day - You > can > > build your own 3 sided > > > box to hold the lights inside and then mount one > of > > these kits into them. > > > www.ahsupply.com ( 2 x 55 watt setup) They are > very > > easy to put together and > > > very easy to repair in the future. Just make sure > you > > get good air flow. Or > > > if you are not a DIY person, you can look for a > good > > price on a similar > > > light that is already put together For minimal > light > > such as 100 watts you > > > should stick with lower light tolerant plants > Ferns - > > Java fern, African > > > Fern, Water sprite Mosses - any aquatic moss that > is > > proven temperature > > > tolerant. > > > Anubius plants - many species to choose from > Crypts - > > Many species to choose > > > from Some of the Hygrophilia species are worth a > try > > including wisteria"" > > > > > > who gave me this information please? I have some > more > > questions about the > > > lighting system, which i can either ask on list > or off > > list, and am driving > > > my self bonkers looking for who provided the info > in > > the first place!! > > > > > > erika newark de usa > > > > ------------------------------------ > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when > replying, Thank You. > ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> > ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> > PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is > NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of > the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new > subject (was re: old subject)" <- > <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. > , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. > > If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of > unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by > clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the home page.  > > Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com > to receive the digest, which includes up to 25 posts at a > time in a single email > > Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com > for the No E-Mail option where you will still be able to > read messages on the group and post replies. > > Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com > to receive individual e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links > > >     AquaticLife-fullfeatured@yahoogroups.com > > > ------------------------------------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the home page. Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com to receive the digest, which includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com for the No E-Mail option where you will still be able to read messages on the group and post replies. Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com to receive individual e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 44330	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 11/8/2009
Subject: Re: [Bulk] RE: [AquaticLife] Re: Algae/Betta Bowl

But you have to remember, that in the wild, yes they are often found in shallow waters but not always, as they also live in slow moving streams and rivers.... and they still live in waters that could be thousands, tens of thousands or even millions of gallons, spread out over vast areas, so I don't know how 90 gallons could be too much. I'm not sure why yours is trying to get out of your tank so bad. From... http://animaldiversity.ummz.umich.edu/site/accounts/information/Betta_splend ens.html Habitat Betta splendens live in thickly overgrown ponds and in only very slowly flowing waters such as shallow rice paddies, stagnant pools, polluted streams, and other types of areas in which the water has a low-oxygen content. (Hargrove 1999) (END SNIP) But these are not the only types of waterways where they are found. It's just that they are better designed to thrive in the low-oxygen waterways compared to many other fish but there are also LOTS of other types of fish that live in these same waterways, including female Bettas and many other species from the Betta Genus. Back to Bettas... from FishBase.org... one of the BEST scientific based fish profile sites, although not as easy to read as some other profiles, http://fishbase.org/Summary/speciesSummary.php?ID=4768 Biology Occur in standing waters of floodplains, canals, rice paddies (Ref. 12693) and medium to large rivers (Ref. 12975). Feeds on zooplankton, mosquito and other insect larvae (Ref. 12693). Air breather and bubble nest builder. Used in behavioral studies (Ref. 4537). Males will fight each other. The many colorful varieties are popular aquarium fish, however, the holding of the males in very small containers should be discouraged (Ref. 1672). Aquarium keeping: several females for one male; minimum aquarium size 60 cm (Ref. 51539). (END SNIP) Please note that they live in "medium to large rivers" as well and that FishBase recommends the minimum aquarium size should be at least 60cm (23") and that "the holding of the males in very small containers should be discouraged", so I'm just following their instructions. ;-) Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Cheryl Ellison Sent: Sunday, November 08, 2009 3:49 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [Bulk] RE: [AquaticLife] Re: Algae/Betta Bowl No fish harassing her, she just seemed freaked out by the space. She just huddled in the corner for the longest time and once she figured out how to escape into the sump she would immediately head back there the minute I put her back in the tank, we did this several times before I gave up. The sump area she is in is really small, smaller than a bowl or tank I would keep her in, my sump is built in and sectioned off into several compartments. I basically just have tetra's in my tank, neon's, head and tail lights, and some guppies etc...and lots of plants. I think they (betta's) like the security of the smaller space. Females are not much less territorial than males either, they do best by themselves. I do think that they need at least 1/2 gallon or more to live in. But 90 gallons is just too much. I am going to fish her out again once I get a suitable place for her to live, in the meantime I will let her live in the sump. In the wild betta's are found in shallow rice patties, puddles and swamps. So a small tank or large bowl with clean water is definitely better than that. Cheryl from Seattle http://cherylshtuff.blogspot.com/ ----- Original Message ----- From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Sunday, November 08, 2009 12:26 PM Subject: RE: [Bulk] RE: [AquaticLife] Re: Algae/Betta Bowl Your female Betta in the 90G may be disturbed by the presumably higher water movement that I would presume took place in a 90G tank. They come from slow moving to stagnant waters in the wild. I'm not sure where you get that Bettta's prefer smaller areas to live? Yes, they will establish a territory but they still like to swim around... and not just in a 6" circle. The last Betta I had, which I rescued from a flooded Katrina home in a 1 qt. vase, was moved to a 1.5G vase and eventually into a 10G planted tank and he swam around and explored the entire tank on a regular basis. Yes, male Bettas are often solitary since they are aggressive to other males and often aggressive to females as well but just because they are grumpy old men, it does not mean they only want to live in a closet of a home. Even grumpy old men (like Bill) like a full sized home... even though he may spend most of his time in the recliner watching TV. ;-) Did you possibly have another fish that was harassing her? That's always a possibility with fish with longer, flowing fins. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Cheryl Ellison Sent: Sunday, November 08, 2009 12:31 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [Bulk] RE: [AquaticLife] Re: Algae/Betta Bowl Betta's actually prefer smaller areas to live. They are very solitary fish, they don't really enjoy the company of other fish and they don't like a lot of water movement, bowls and small tanks are perfect for them as long as the water is changed regularly. They also like plants. I have unsuccessfully tried to keep a female betta in my 90 gallon community tank and she is just miserable in there, she keeps jumping through the overflow into my sump and I fish her out and put her back in the main tank and she just heads right back to the sump, so I am leaving her there for now and will probably move her to a bowl or small tank all by herself. I really thought she might enjoy the freedom to move through my heavily planted tank, but obviously she didn't like it. Cheryl from Seattle http://cherylshtuff.blogspot.com/ ----- Original Message ----- From: Dora Smith To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Sunday, November 08, 2009 5:37 AM Subject: Re: [Bulk] RE: [AquaticLife] Re: Algae/Betta Bowl My betta lives in a bowl, and he's STAYING in a bowl, Lennie, END OF SUBJECT. Yours, Dora Smith Austin, TX tiggernut24@... ----- Original Message ----- From: "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@...> To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Saturday, November 07, 2009 2:17 PM Subject: [Bulk] RE: [AquaticLife] Re: Algae/Betta Bowl UH OH... I see a can of worms... and I've got my can opener ready! LOL Yes, they "CAN" live in a bowl but that doesn't mean they should live in a bowl. This would be analogous to saying a family of four "CAN" live in an 8' x 8' room with a hole in the ground for a toilet... but that doesn't mean they *should* live in that type of home. It also doesn't mean that the government should create another government program to give larger homes to people that can't afford them out of their own income. LOL Doing a 25% PWC every day and using a small algae scrubber on the inside of the glass and then siphoning the gravel at least once a week or more, as needed, will go a long way to improving the water quality and thus lessening the algae growth. Also see my other reply before this one. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of kuradi8 Sent: Saturday, November 07, 2009 11:06 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Algae/Betta Bowl Because Bettas are surface breathers, they CAN live in bowls. (Bowls meaning they don't need aeration.) The one he's in isn't "small" but I'm on the lookout for a larger one or small tank, preferably at a Salvation Army price. Cleaning the bowl every day would mean too much of a water change and that would screw up his little ecosystem, having the water cycling all the time. ~Kai --- Harry wrote: > > Clean the bowl every day and explain to Momma fish don't belong in bowls. A small tank is cheap at Walmart. > Harry > > --- On Sat, 11/7/09, Dora Smith <tiggernut24@...> wrote: > > > Sounds like someone has to go over to Momma's house every once in a while and clean the bowl. > > Yours, > > Dora Smith > > Austin, TX > > tiggernut24@ yahoo.com > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > I got Mom a Betta a month or two back and his bowl is under the big > table > > lamp that she uses to read -- all day. So no wonder his bowl gets > bright > > green with algae growth. The answer is to move his bowl but no, it's > the > > most convenient place and she likes having him there. > > > > I mentioned getting a snail but someone replied that Mystery Snails > don't > > eat algae -- they eat the food that falls to the bottom. But other > posts > > say they DO eat algae. > > > > So which is it? And will s/he eat enough of it to keep Kala's algae > problem > > kinda-sorta under control? > > > > It's not easy being greeeeeeeen. .. > > ~Kai

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 44331	From: Gwydryn@aol.com	Date: 11/8/2009
Subject: Re: [Bulk] RE: [AquaticLife] Re: Algae/Betta Bowl

In a message dated 11/8/2009 12:33:15 P.M. Central Standard Time, GoldLenny@... writes: Ummmm... it's Lenny and there's never an end to a subject as long as someone else wants to reply. You ain't my momma... thank God! Lenny Vasbinder ok, I''ll add my $.02 here; My 5 bettas live in a 30 gallon planted tank with no filtration. I do a weekly 25% PWC and they live in harmony, now the 4 blue gouramis on the same tank...those live for battling each other and I'm thisclose to taking two of them back to the lfs, if not all of them and getting shrimp instead. Enid "Life is not about waiting for the storms to pass...it's about learning how to dance in the rain." [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 44332	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 11/8/2009
Subject: Re: [Bulk] RE: [AquaticLife] Re: Algae/Betta Bowl

Do you have females or male Bettas? I know there are always exceptions to the rule but it seems that five males in a 30G might get a little rambunctious. I guess two males could live peacefully on opposite ends and I've also heard that males from the same hatch that are never separated will have a good chance of living peacefully together. Now, the four Blue Gouramis are a LOT of fish for that same 30G tank. Each Blue Gourami can grow to 6" long and 2"+ tall so that's a LOT more bioload and the four of them probably realize that someone has to go which is why they are fighting. I wouldn't go with more than a mated pair of Blue Gouramis in a 30G and then a school or two of something else. It's kind of easy to sex them so you could see if you have a male that is being more friendly to a particular female and then keep them two. If you bring them all back and get shrimp, the Bettas will thank you.... for their expensive snack food! ;-) Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Gwydryn@... Sent: Sunday, November 08, 2009 5:39 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [Bulk] RE: [AquaticLife] Re: Algae/Betta Bowl In a message dated 11/8/2009 12:33:15 P.M. Central Standard Time, GoldLenny@... writes: Ummmm... it's Lenny and there's never an end to a subject as long as someone else wants to reply. You ain't my momma... thank God! Lenny Vasbinder ok, I''ll add my $.02 here; My 5 bettas live in a 30 gallon planted tank with no filtration. I do a weekly 25% PWC and they live in harmony, now the 4 blue gouramis on the same tank...those live for battling each other and I'm thisclose to taking two of them back to the lfs, if not all of them and getting shrimp instead. Enid "Life is not about waiting for the storms to pass...it's about learning how to dance in the rain." [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] ------------------------------------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. 74/`7.88.><((((:>.74/`7.88.74/`7.8><((((:> 8.74/`7.8. , .74/`7..><((((:> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <:((((><.74/`7.88.74/`7.8<:((((><8.74/`7.8. , .74/`7..<:((((><74/`7.88. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the home page. Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com to receive the digest, which includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com for the No E-Mail option where you will still be able to read messages on the group and post replies. Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com to receive individual e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 44333	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 11/8/2009
Subject: Re: [Bulk] RE: [AquaticLife] Re: Algae/Betta Bowl

Lenny, If the males have been together since they were hatched, then there is a very good possibility that they will live together peaceably. However, should you remove one from the group for even a short period of time, then all bets are off when he is put back with his brothers. More than likely the "new addition" will not survive the attentions of the others. Be mindful that I am not advocating that anyone try this, but it has been observed by breeders and those who were willing to go a bit further with this line of research. It does not always work either. Some bettas just have to show off their pugnacious side, but, as a general rule, it does work, just so long as there is nothing to interrupt the bond, or whatever it is, between those fish kept like this. \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Lenny V. aka GoldLenny Sent: Sunday, November 08, 2009 7:00 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [Bulk] RE: [AquaticLife] Re: Algae/Betta Bowl Do you have females or male Bettas? I know there are always exceptions to the rule but it seems that five males in a 30G might get a little rambunctious. I guess two males could live peacefully on opposite ends and I've also heard that males from the same hatch that are never separated will have a good chance of living peacefully together. Now, the four Blue Gouramis are a LOT of fish for that same 30G tank. Each Blue Gourami can grow to 6" long and 2"+ tall so that's a LOT more bioload and the four of them probably realize that someone has to go which is why they are fighting. I wouldn't go with more than a mated pair of Blue Gouramis in a 30G and then a school or two of something else. It's kind of easy to sex them so you could see if you have a male that is being more friendly to a particular female and then keep them two. If you bring them all back and get shrimp, the Bettas will thank you.... for their expensive snack food! ;-) Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Gwydryn@... Sent: Sunday, November 08, 2009 5:39 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [Bulk] RE: [AquaticLife] Re: Algae/Betta Bowl In a message dated 11/8/2009 12:33:15 P.M. Central Standard Time, GoldLenny@... writes: Ummmm... it's Lenny and there's never an end to a subject as long as someone else wants to reply. You ain't my momma... thank God! Lenny Vasbinder ok, I''ll add my $.02 here; My 5 bettas live in a 30 gallon planted tank with no filtration. I do a weekly 25% PWC and they live in harmony, now the 4 blue gouramis on the same tank...those live for battling each other and I'm thisclose to taking two of them back to the lfs, if not all of them and getting shrimp instead. Enid "Life is not about waiting for the storms to pass...it's about learning how to dance in the rain."

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 44334	From: bill 1433	Date: 11/8/2009
Subject: Re: wisteria/lighting previous question/response revisited

LIFE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Answers both questions. Bill --- On Sun, 11/8/09, Steve Szabo <steve@...> wrote: > From: Steve Szabo <steve@...> > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: wisteria/lighting previous question/response revisited > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Date: Sunday, November 8, 2009, 5:54 PM > Bill, > > Yeah, but you know what you are kickin' for? Or, what > you're kickin' at? > > \\Steve// > > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] > On > Behalf Of bill 1433 > Sent: Sunday, November 08, 2009 3:35 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: wisteria/lighting previous > question/response > revisited > > NOT!!!  > > Sorry Len, you're wrong this time.  The guy that made > the > post went into detail about how to construct the lights for > > incandescent or will type of ballast will work best for > florescent tubes.  He also talked about the general > hooking up > of everything including what size electrical wire inside > the light housing. > This guy new what he was talking about as he is a > electrician by trade. > Off hand this posting was made to the group about 2 or 3 > months ago. > Although the link is informative, that's not it.  This > gentlemen showed you > how to do all this WITHOUT kits. > > Still kickin' > > Bill > > > --- On Sun, 11/8/09, Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@...> > wrote: > > > From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@...> > > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: wisteria/lighting > previous > question/response revisited > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > Date: Sunday, November 8, 2009, 1:04 PM > > Well at least, we now know it was a > > recent post, which is why it's not > > showing up on the search engines yet.  Ol' Bill > > couldn't have remembered it > > if it was too long ago. LOL  Sorry Bill... couldn't > > resist! LOL > > > > The link to the commonly referred DIY aquarium > lighting > > site is > > http://www.AHSupply.com > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > > (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are > listed > > on the right > > side, alphabetically under Labels and also under > Archives > > by Year, Month) > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] > > On > > Behalf Of bill 1433 > > Sent: Sunday, November 08, 2009 8:08 AM > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: wisteria/lighting > previous > > question/response > > revisited > > > > We must be on the same groups Erika.  I can remember > > the post but not the > > "who" or "where" part of it.  As I recall he also > > mentions about building > > his own lights and how.  I lost the post and his > link > > too! > > > > Bill > > > > --- On Sun, 11/8/09, erikaandnewton <e.isme@...> > > wrote: > > > > > From: erikaandnewton <e.isme@...> > > > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: wisteria/lighting > previous > > > > > question/response revisited > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > > Date: Sunday, November 8, 2009, 6:34 AM > > > > > > you know lenny, i might just be a total moron. I > might > > have asked that > > > on a totally different list, maybe plant geek or > > something. I just > > > copied and pasted so i could add it to my folder > of > > fish info and have > > > something to take to the store with me when i > went > > plant shopping. > > > My question is, he mentions possibly being able > to > > find similar lights > > > already assembled. I was wondering where i might > look > > for them as i > > > can't see me building a housing with a fan to > put > > those in. or for > > > that matter figuring out how to put the light > together > > in the first > > > place. > > > > > > erika newark de usa > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, > > > "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@...> > wrote: > > > > > > > > Looks like Ray's writing to me... but I > could be > > > wrong.  I regularly refer > > > > folks to the AHSupply.com site but the rest > of > > the > > > post doesn't look like > > > > mine. > > > > > > > > You could always Google one of the sentences > and > > see > > > what Google finds... > > > > such as.... hmmmmm.. that's strange.  > Google > > > didn't find any of that post. > > > > Are you sure that was posted to the group > and not > > just > > > sent to you off-list? > > > > > > > > > > > > How did you have all of that text but not > know > > who > > > gave it to you?  Did you > > > > copy/paste the info from a website or email > or > > > what??? > > > > > > > > What questions did you have? > > > > > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles > > > > referenced in above reply are > > > listed on the right > > > > side, alphabetically under Labels and also > under > > > Archives by Year, Month) > > > > > > > > > > > >  > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] > > > On > > > > Behalf Of erikaandnewton > > > > Sent: Saturday, November 07, 2009 12:28 PM > > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > > > Subject: [AquaticLife] wisteria/lighting > > previous > > > question/response > > > > revisited > > > > > > > > ok, i've looked through the archives for > posts > > made by > > > me, and can't find > > > > the post that this response was in reference > to: > > > > > > > > ""First make sure that you have "water > sprite" ( > > > Ceratopteris thalictroides) > > > > rather than Hygrophila difformis AKA "Water > > Wisteria"- > > > They can be confused. > > > > The easiest way to tell them apart is just > by > > seeing > > > how the new leaves > > > > form. In true fern like way, the water > sprite > > will > > > unfurl a new branch and > > > > set of leaves, while the wisteria will grow > out > > new > > > leaves like most plants > > > > and trees. > > > > For the 75 gallon, I would recommend a > minimum of > > 100 > > > watts of full spectrum > > > > lighting on for at least 10 hours each day - > You > > can > > > build your own 3 sided > > > > box to hold the lights inside and then mount > one > > of > > > these kits into them. > > > > www.ahsupply.com ( 2 x 55 watt setup) They > are > > very > > > easy to put together and > > > > very easy to repair in the future. Just make > sure > > you > > > get good air flow. Or > > > > if you are not a DIY person, you can look > for a > > good > > > price on a similar > > > > light that is already put together For > minimal > > light > > > such as 100 watts you > > > > should stick with lower light tolerant > plants > > Ferns - > > > Java fern, African > > > > Fern, Water sprite Mosses - any aquatic moss > that > > is > > > proven temperature > > > > tolerant. > > > > Anubius plants - many species to choose > from > > Crypts - > > > Many species to choose > > > > from Some of the Hygrophilia species are > worth a > > try > > > including wisteria"" > > > > > > > > who gave me this information please? I have > some > > more > > > questions about the > > > > lighting system, which i can either ask on > list > > or off > > > list, and am driving > > > > my self bonkers looking for who provided the > info > > in > > > the first place!! > > > > > > > > erika newark de usa > > > > > > > > ------------------------------------ > > > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when > > replying, Thank You. > > > ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> > > ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> > > PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that > is > > NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC > of > > the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> > i.e. "new > > subject (was re: old subject)" <- > > > <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. > > , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. > > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. > > > > If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead > of > > unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by > > clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the home page.  > > > > Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com > > to receive the digest, which includes up to 25 posts > at a > > time in a single email > > > > Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com > > for the No E-Mail option where you will still be able > to > > read messages on the group and post replies. > > > > Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com > > to receive individual e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > >     AquaticLife-fullfeatured@yahoogroups.com > > > > > > > > >       > > > ------------------------------------ > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when > replying, Thank You. > ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> > ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> > PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is > NOT important to > the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original > message MODIFY the SUBJECT > LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- > <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. > , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. > > If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of > unsubscribing, you > can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My > Membership" on the > home page.  > > Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com > to receive the digest, which > includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email > > Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com > for the No E-Mail option where > you will still be able to read messages on the group and > post replies. > > Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com > to receive individual > e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > > ------------------------------------ > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when > replying, Thank You. > ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> > ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> > PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is > NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of > the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new > subject (was re: old subject)" <- > <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. > , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. > > If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of > unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by > clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the home page.  > > Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com > to receive the digest, which includes up to 25 posts at a > time in a single email > > Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com > for the No E-Mail option where you will still be able to > read messages on the group and post replies. > > Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com > to receive individual e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links > > >     AquaticLife-fullfeatured@yahoogroups.com > > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 44335	From: Gwydryn@aol.com	Date: 11/8/2009
Subject: Re: [Bulk] RE: [AquaticLife] Re: Algae/Betta Bowl

Actually, it's 2 males, 3 females and I bought them all within a week and basically added the 2 boys on the same day. They flared and postured, but it was all bluff. There are 2 ghost shrimps in there, I see them on occasion, so I figure I'll take the gouramis back and get five more. When I got the gouramis they were rather small (ok, they were about as big as the female bettas) but I have 3 males, 1 female. Now I will say NEVER EVER try to keep paradise fish with bettas, they will fight and the Paradise will kill your bettas, I learned that the hard way several years back. AS far as adding more male bettas... well it can be done, but it's an exercise in patience for the fish keeper and a whole lot to do with the temperament of the fish involved. I used to have a 30 long with 5 males, plus 7 females, added as I found one that I really liked, in a planted tank. Like I said, I don't recommend this to a noob, you have to spend the time with the fish if you even want to attempt this. It takes about a week of exposure to the new fish before you can even attempt the first free swim. If anyone wants to know how, I've done it, let me know. I'll go in detail. Enid Lenny, If the males have been together since they were hatched, then there is a very good possibility that they will live together peaceably. However, should you remove one from the group for even a short period of time, then all bets are off when he is put back with his brothers. More than likely the "new addition" will not survive the attentions of the others. Be mindful that I am not advocating that anyone try this, but it has been observed by breeders and those who were willing to go a bit further with this line of research. It does not always work either. Some bettas just have to show off their pugnacious side, but, as a general rule, it does work, just so long as there is nothing to interrupt the bond, or whatever it is, between those fish kept like this. \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: _AquaticLife@AquaticLife@Aqu_ (mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com) [mailto:_AquaticLife@AquaticLife@Aqu_ (mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com) ] On Behalf Of Lenny V. aka GoldLenny Sent: Sunday, November 08, 2009 7:00 PM To: _AquaticLife@AquaticLife@Aqu_ (mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com) Subject: RE: [Bulk] RE: [AquaticLife] Re: Algae/Betta Bowl Do you have females or male Bettas? I know there are always exceptions to the rule but it seems that five males in a 30G might get a little rambunctious. I guess two males could live peacefully on opposite ends and I've also heard that males from the same hatch that are never separated will have a good chance of living peacefully together. Now, the four Blue Gouramis are a LOT of fish for that same 30G tank. Each Blue Gourami can grow to 6" long and 2"+ tall so that's a LOT more bioload and the four of them probably realize that someone has to go which is why they are fighting. I wouldn't go with more than a mated pair of Blue Gouramis in a 30G and then a school or two of something else. It's kind of easy to sex them so you could see if you have a male that is being more friendly to a particular female and then keep them two. If you bring them all back and get shrimp, the Bettas will thank you.... for their expensive snack food! ;-) Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - _http://GoldLenny.http://Gohtt_ (http://goldlenny.blogspot.com/) (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: _AquaticLife@AquaticLife@Aqu_ (mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com) [mailto:_AquaticLife@AquaticLife@Aqu_ (mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com) ] On Behalf Of _Gwydryn@..._ (mailto:Gwydryn@...) Sent: Sunday, November 08, 2009 5:39 PM To: _AquaticLife@AquaticLife@Aqu_ (mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com) Subject: Re: [Bulk] RE: [AquaticLife] Re: Algae/Betta Bowl In a message dated 11/8/2009 12:33:15 P.M. Central Standard Time, _GoldLenny@..._ (mailto:GoldLenny@...) writes: Ummmm... it's Lenny and there's never an end to a subject as long as someone else wants to reply. You ain't my momma... thank God! Lenny Vasbinder ok, I''ll add my $.02 here; My 5 bettas live in a 30 gallon planted tank with no filtration. I do a weekly 25% PWC and they live in harmony, now the 4 blue gouramis on the same tank...those live for battling each other and I'm thisclose to taking two of them back to the lfs, if not all of them and getting shrimp instead. Enid "Life is not about waiting for the storms to pass...it's about learning how to dance in the rain." [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 44336	From: Dayne	Date: 11/8/2009
Subject: Re: shaking mercury thermometers

As an old lady who grew up with mercury thermometers and lots of fevers: the shaking was not to get rid of air bubbles, but to shake the mercury back down into the bulb. The mercury tended to stay at the last highest temperature. You had to shake it to get the mercury below the "normal" 98.6 degrees (for mouth measurement) For example - you would want to start out below normal (partly because having a low temperature is also a symptom of illness) then position it and wait. Then read it. If it said 102 degrees, for example, you had a problem. So you treat the problem - wait - then look at the thermometer - it still says 102 degrees. Soooooo you have to shake it to get it below the "normal" temperature and repeat as needed. If you didn't shake it, and it read the same after taking your temperature you could not be sure if you temp was lower or the same. However, if it had gone up the thermometer would register the new higher temp. More than you ever wanted to know about using the old fashioned fraigle breakable mercury thermometer. dayne, shadow, rasputin,and ms lincoln, https://www.armyofwomen.org/getinvolved http://adoptaussoldier.org/ http://freerice.com/index.php Sent from my iPhone On Nov 7, 2009, at 4:00 PM, "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@...> wrote: OK. The "silver stuff in the bottom" is probably on the outside of the actual thermometer. The thermometer is the actual thin tube with the liquid inside it. The glass housing and temperature chart are on the outside of the thin tube. The "silver stuff" is probably little metal balls that are used to provide ballast to the floating thermometer so it floats in an upright position. The "silver stuff" is also covering the fluid filled bulb at the bottom of the actual thermometer, which in your case is probably filled with red-colored alcohol. While the red-colored alcohol thermometers do work, as a general rule, they are not as accurate as mercury filled thermometers but for things like our fish tanks, etc., we do not need micro-calibrated thermometers.... just something to let us know if it's around 75-76 or 78-79, etc. It's unusual for them to fail but if you remember in the old days, our parents would grab the top of the mercury filled thermometer and shake/snap it downward a couple of times to *push* the liquid down into the bulb before using it on us kids. I guess this was to get any possible air bubbles that might have gotten down into the bulb and would affect the level. You could try this with yours and see if that fixes things before trashing it. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of erikaandnewton Sent: Saturday, November 07, 2009 2:25 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: stuck thermometer? its probably the alcohol kind. its glass, can either float or be suction cupped to the side, silver stuff in the bottom, but im pretty sure thats just for looks, red line that goes up to the yellow and green colored "safety zone" erika newark de usa --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@...> wrote: > > What kind of thermometer do you have? > > There are many types... from the red-colored alcohol to mercury to > stick on liquid crystal (plastic strip types) to digital, etc. > > I'm guessing you had a red-alcohol or mercury one but let us know. > > In either case, you are right that they usually do not fail. They > certainly could be off by a degree or two, but that is usually due to > the chart/scale being in the wrong place, rather than the fluid inside the tube. > > I use a couple of different types. I have a mercury one that is > enclosed in a sealed glass test-tube with metal pellets at the bottom > to keep it floating upright. If you have big, aggressive fish, this > type is not always recommended as the bigger aggressive fish might > decide to slam it around and possibly break it. I've had it for many > years in many tanks but never with big, aggressive fish. I also have > one of the stick-on plastic strip types (actually liquid crystal). > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles > referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically > under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) > > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] > On Behalf Of erikaandnewton > Sent: Saturday, November 07, 2009 6:38 AM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Subject: [AquaticLife] stuck thermometer? > > so i had an impulse buy of some newts, forgetting they like cooler > temperatures than my frogs. i set up a tank for them, put in a heater > just to keep it from getting below 68, dropped in the thermometer i > had been using in the frog tank (which had shown me varying temps as > should be > expected) and went about my chores. a few hours later i checked on the > tank, the thermometer read 80 degrees. stuck my finger in and thought > "odd, doesn't even feel as warm as the frog tank", unplugged the > heater and left the lid open. a few hours later, still read at 80 > degrees. so, took the brand new thermometer out of the frog tank and > put it in the newt tank. a nice cool 68ish degrees. i stuck the old > thermometer in the fridge and checked on it this morning. whatdya know > my fridge is 80 degrees. so now im paranoid that a regular ordinary > thermometer can malfunction. something i never thought could occur. my > question is, what kind of thermometer do i have to buy to make sure i'm getting an accurate reading? > > erika newark de usa [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 44337	From: harry perry	Date: 11/8/2009
Subject: Re: shaking mercury thermometers/Dayne

I remember those. My mom wouldn't send us to school if we had a temperature. So, stuck the thermometer in my hot tea. She said your going to school because you either stuck the thermometer in your tea or your dead. Harry --- On Sun, 11/8/09, Dayne <dsnjax@...> wrote: From: Dayne <dsnjax@...> Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] shaking mercury thermometers To: "AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com" <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com> Date: Sunday, November 8, 2009, 8:47 PM   As an old lady who grew up with mercury thermometers and lots of fevers: the shaking was not to get rid of air bubbles, but to shake the mercury back down into the bulb. The mercury tended to stay at the last highest temperature. You had to shake it to get the mercury below the "normal" 98.6 degrees (for mouth measurement) For example - you would want to start out below normal (partly because having a low temperature is also a symptom of illness) then position it and wait. Then read it. If it said 102 degrees, for example, you had a problem. So you treat the problem - wait - then look at the thermometer - it still says 102 degrees. Soooooo you have to shake it to get it below the "normal" temperature and repeat as needed. If you didn't shake it, and it read the same after taking your temperature you could not be sure if you temp was lower or the same. However, if it had gone up the thermometer would register the new higher temp. More than you ever wanted to know about using the old fashioned fraigle breakable mercury thermometer. dayne, shadow, rasputin,and ms lincoln, https://www. armyofwomen. org/getinvolved http://adoptaussold ier.org/ http://freerice. com/index. php Sent from my iPhone On Nov 7, 2009, at 4:00 PM, "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@gmail. com> wrote: OK. The "silver stuff in the bottom" is probably on the outside of the actual thermometer. The thermometer is the actual thin tube with the liquid inside it. The glass housing and temperature chart are on the outside of the thin tube. The "silver stuff" is probably little metal balls that are used to provide ballast to the floating thermometer so it floats in an upright position. The "silver stuff" is also covering the fluid filled bulb at the bottom of the actual thermometer, which in your case is probably filled with red-colored alcohol. While the red-colored alcohol thermometers do work, as a general rule, they are not as accurate as mercury filled thermometers but for things like our fish tanks, etc., we do not need micro-calibrated thermometers. ... just something to let us know if it's around 75-76 or 78-79, etc. It's unusual for them to fail but if you remember in the old days, our parents would grab the top of the mercury filled thermometer and shake/snap it downward a couple of times to *push* the liquid down into the bulb before using it on us kids. I guess this was to get any possible air bubbles that might have gotten down into the bulb and would affect the level. You could try this with yours and see if that fixes things before trashing it. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com [mailto:AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com] On Behalf Of erikaandnewton Sent: Saturday, November 07, 2009 2:25 PM To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: stuck thermometer? its probably the alcohol kind. its glass, can either float or be suction cupped to the side, silver stuff in the bottom, but im pretty sure thats just for looks, red line that goes up to the yellow and green colored "safety zone" erika newark de usa --- In AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com, "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@. ..> wrote: > > What kind of thermometer do you have? > > There are many types... from the red-colored alcohol to mercury to > stick on liquid crystal (plastic strip types) to digital, etc. > > I'm guessing you had a red-alcohol or mercury one but let us know. > > In either case, you are right that they usually do not fail. They > certainly could be off by a degree or two, but that is usually due to > the chart/scale being in the wrong place, rather than the fluid inside the tube. > > I use a couple of different types. I have a mercury one that is > enclosed in a sealed glass test-tube with metal pellets at the bottom > to keep it floating upright. If you have big, aggressive fish, this > type is not always recommended as the bigger aggressive fish might > decide to slam it around and possibly break it. I've had it for many > years in many tanks but never with big, aggressive fish. I also have > one of the stick-on plastic strip types (actually liquid crystal). > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com (Links to any articles > referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically > under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) > > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com [mailto:AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com] > On Behalf Of erikaandnewton > Sent: Saturday, November 07, 2009 6:38 AM > To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com > Subject: [AquaticLife] stuck thermometer? > > so i had an impulse buy of some newts, forgetting they like cooler > temperatures than my frogs. i set up a tank for them, put in a heater > just to keep it from getting below 68, dropped in the thermometer i > had been using in the frog tank (which had shown me varying temps as > should be > expected) and went about my chores. a few hours later i checked on the > tank, the thermometer read 80 degrees. stuck my finger in and thought > "odd, doesn't even feel as warm as the frog tank", unplugged the > heater and left the lid open. a few hours later, still read at 80 > degrees. so, took the brand new thermometer out of the frog tank and > put it in the newt tank. a nice cool 68ish degrees. i stuck the old > thermometer in the fridge and checked on it this morning. whatdya know > my fridge is 80 degrees. so now im paranoid that a regular ordinary > thermometer can malfunction. something i never thought could occur. my > question is, what kind of thermometer do i have to buy to make sure i'm getting an accurate reading? > > erika newark de usa [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 44338	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 11/8/2009
Subject: H.R. 669: Nonnative Wildlife Invasion Prevention Act

We haven't talked about this in many months but I just got an automated email alert that this may be on the schedule for the Senate on Nov. 9, 2009 and for the House on Nov. 16, 2009 and apparently they've had some co-sponsors signing on to this House Resolution. It's time for US to get on our local crooks (politicians) and let them know you are AGAINST H.R. 669. I guess now that the House Dem's have voted to ram government healthcare down our throats... or up our rears, now they're going to try and tell us which pets we can own and I'm sure there will be taxes attached to this law too... if it makes it through. http://www.govtrack.us/congress/bill.xpd?bill=h111-669 Here are my two blog articles earlier this year with more info and copies of information from various pet trade groups, etc.... http://goldlenny.blogspot.com/search/label/HR%20669 Here is the CapWiz set up by the NAIA Trust with a way to contact your local crooks.. oops.. I meant politicians, to let them know you are AGAINST H.R. 669. http://capwiz.com/naiatrust/home/ Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: GovTrack.us [mailto:operations@...] Sent: Sunday, November 08, 2009 7:42 PM To: GoldLenny@... Subject: GovTrack.us Tracked Events for 11/04/2009 - 11/07/2009 <http://www.govtrack.us/perl/emailupdate_trackback.cgi?userid=56343&emailhas h=dbc901a19ca5fdfc5678c42b04ad4dc9×tamp=1257730938> GovTrack.us Tracked Events Update This is your email update from www.GovTrack.us. To change your email updates settings including to unsubscribe, go to your account settings <http://www.govtrack.us/users/yourmonitors.xpd> page. You are currently monitoring: H.R. 669: Nonnative Wildlife Invasion Prevention Act. The Senate next meets Nov 9, 2009; the House next meets Nov 16, 2009. Nov 6, 2009 - Bill Action H.R. 669: Nonnative Wildlife Invasion Prevention Act <http://www.govtrack.us/congress/bill.xpd?bill=h111-669> Cosponsorship change. Rep. Kilpatrick [D-MI13] <http://www.govtrack.us/congress/person.xpd?id=400217> : New cosponsor. ________________________________ "The right of representation in the legislature [is] a right inestimable to [the people], and formidable to tyrants only." --Thomas Jefferson <http://etext.virginia.edu/jefferson/quotations/> : Declaration of Independence, 1776.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 44339	From: cat.rose	Date: 11/8/2009
Subject: Re: Plants growing black hair - eek.

Hi Lenny, Here's the answers to your questions: 1. How many fish? - 2 guppies, 2 GloFish, 3 platies (one is a baby/few months old)   2. How often do you do 25% PWC's? - Once a week    3. How often do you do filter maintenance? Once a month (and after doing it the wrong way the first time, I read your blog & do know the proper way to clean filter!) :) 4. What kind of lighting does the tank have? 2 florescent bulbs, 10w each (the kind that look like 2 "U" shaped bulbs in one) 5. Does it get any sunlight? It gets some morning sun, but I can start to keep the blinds closed. I thought the natural light would be good - oops 6. Test numbers a/o tonight after doing 25% PWC: NH3 = 0 NO2 = <0.3 NO-3 = 40 PH = 7.0 GH = 7 KH = 2  I hope we can figure this out - this stuff is really ugly. :( Thanks! Catherine --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@...> wrote: > > You are getting algae. Algae is perfectly normal and grows in nearly every > aquarium but there are things you can do to keep it under control. It will > not hurt your fish as long as it doesn't get to the point where it > completely overtakes the tank. Algae is natural but when it starts to get > out of control, it usually means that you might need to change the way you > are maintaining the tank. > > The plant you have is probably a type of Hornwort. See this page and let us > know if this is what you have. > http://www.plantedtank.net/forums/myplants/47-Tropical_Hornwort_Ceratophyllu > m_submersum.html > > In the future, DO NOT buy any kind of fish or plant without doing research > first to make sure you are getting something that is compatible with your > tank, water, etc... but this is probably not an issue in this case. Since > you have a 10G tank, see my blog article about compatible fish and stocking > recommendations for a 10G tank so you will have a quick guide of which fish > are compatible with your tank if you do decide to change things around in > the future. > > Is the plant growing from what you can tell or is it possibly dying off? > > Tell us more about your tank maintenance and the tank in general. How many > fish? What kind of fish? How often do you do 25% PWC's (partial water > changes)? How often do you do filter maintenance? While on the topic of > filter maintenance, read my long blog article about proper "Filter Cleaning > and Maintenance" so you do not make some of these common mistakes. What > kind of lighting does the tank have? Does it get any sunlight, since > sunlight will cause algae much faster than other lighting so you do NOT > really want any direct sunlight? > > Do you happen to have any test kits for things like ammonia, nitrite, > nitrate, pH, etc? If you do, give us those test results in numbers (Note > that OK or Safe are not numbers. ;-)). > > There's a lot more to ask but I'll wait for your answers. > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right > side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) > > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On > Behalf Of cat.rose > Sent: Saturday, November 07, 2009 9:39 AM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Subject: [AquaticLife] Plants growing black hair - eek. > > Hey all! > > Things have been going good here with my 10 gal FW tank. About a month or > more ago I bought sone new plants at PetSmart: don't know the name but > they're fluffy, kind of angel hairy types, bright green. > > Well a couple weeks ago I was doing my PWC and noticed what looked like > clumps of my roommate's black hair in the tank. Since I'm the only one who > ever cleans the tank, I was very confused as to how this happened as I'm > pretty meticulous with the tank/fish. > > Well, it seems these plants are "growing" long black "hair"! It doesn't seem > like the plant is dying and turning black because the black hairs are much > longer than the green parts. It looks kind of gross, and the hairs are > breaking off or something cuz they're not just on the live plants but bits > scattered around the tank too. > > Should I immediately take out the plants and throw them out? Can it hurt my > fish? I'm sure it's clogging up the filter, which I probably need to clean > now too. > > Looks rather frightening in there now... > > Thanks! > Catherine >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 44340	From: Jade	Date: 11/8/2009
Subject: Aquarium heater sedimentation?

I have a hard light brown (tanish) substance covering the tube of my aquarium heater... is this sediment? I was wondering if that's what's causing my high Ph (there's absolutely nothing else in there that could do it...). How do I clean it off? I've had the problem before... and in attempts to clean it the heater actually cracked (thankfully it wasn't in the tank at the time.) Any ideas/suggestions/help would be appreciated :)

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 44341	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 11/8/2009
Subject: Re: Plants growing black hair - eek.

Reply to 5. first - OK. A big step is keeping the sun out. That is a BIG part of the algae problem. Natural light is good for plants but in nature, there's a lot more water per fish so they do not have the pollution problems that our tanks have and even in lakes/streams with lots of algae, it's not an issue since we are not looking into the side of the lake/stream so the algae is not an issue like in our tanks. Reply to 1. - Your stocking isn't too bad except the GloFish (Zebra Danios) should be in a school of six or more but that would make you overstocked but not by much if your other fish did not breed but presuming they will, do NOT buy any more ZD's for now... but read on for my thoughts of a plan for you. I'm guessing you've had more than the 2 guppies and 3 platies in the past... right? Livebearers are NOT the best fish to keep in a 10G tank as they easily breed and have so many babies that the bioload can become a major water quality problem but as long as the fish keeper is willing to do the more frequent PWC's, filter maintenance, etc., to keep up with the bioload until the babies can be rehomed, then it would be OK. Of course, having all males of livebearers can work in a 10G tank since you would not have the breeding issues and the males are usually the prettier of the species anyhow... for most species except us humans. :-( Did you get the Hornwort plant (if this is what you have) as a way of giving the babies a way of hiding to avoid being eaten? I know this is a common plant used for this purpose... but in your case, you cannot afford the added bioload of a bunch of surviving babies. You never said what type of plant you have. Did you look at the link I provided? Is this what you have? Do you know anyone else that has Zebra Danios and are understocked with them? One or the other could take the undersized school off of the other in exchange for other fish. This would fill up the school of Zebra Danios without adding to the bioload of either tank. It would be better if you filled up the school of ZD's and gave up either the guppies or platies in exchange. Reply to 2. - While once a week is a good general schedule for 25% PWC's, in a tank that is having water quality problems or is overstocked, then the schedule needs to be increased. In your case, you are not overstocked, although I suspect you were recently due to having lots of fry but I'll wait for your reply. Your nitrates (NO3-) are not in any kind of danger zone but since you are having algae issues, you could start doing two 25% PWC's a week until they are down and being maintained in the 10 - 20ppm range. Reply to 3. - Since you've read my article on Filter Maintenance and considering your slightly elevated nitrates and algae issue, you should start doing weekly PROPER maintenance by cleaning the filter pads/cartridges in removed tank water to get as much of the detritus off without harming your nitrifying bacteria colonies too much. Even after you get your tank back in the shape you like, stick with weekly PWC's and filter maintenance to keep it from getting bad again and so that your fish are swimming around in nice cleaner water instead of water diluted / polluted with their waste and decaying detritus. Reply to 4. - Are these the bulbs that came with the hood or did you have two tubular incandescent bulbs... usually 7.5W each, at first? Those 10W bulbs you now have are CFL's (Compact Fluorescent Light bulbs) and they put out a LOT more light (lumens) than those two 7.5W incandescent bulbs. One of those 10W CFL's probably puts out lumens comparable to a 40W incandescent bulb or around 20W of normal fluorescent lighting so your tank has VERY STRONG lighting now... which is also, likely contributing to your algae issue. If you were leaving your lights on for 10 hours a day, cut them back to 9 hours/day for a week, then back to 8 hours/day for a week and you might have to go down to 6 hours/day until you find the lighting schedule that works for your plants without causing algae. Let us know what your lighting schedule was. Reply to 6. - Your test results aren't bad but see above about your nitrate (NO3-) level and a simple plan to fix that minor problem. See my questions above... mainly about what kind of plant that you have (or take a picture and post it and we should be able to ID it for you) and what your lighting schedule was. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of cat.rose Sent: Sunday, November 08, 2009 9:00 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Plants growing black hair - eek. Hi Lenny, Here's the answers to your questions: 1. How many fish? - 2 guppies, 2 GloFish, 3 platies (one is a baby/few months old)   2. How often do you do 25% PWC's? - Once a week    3. How often do you do filter maintenance? Once a month (and after doing it the wrong way the first time, I read your blog & do know the proper way to clean filter!) :) 4. What kind of lighting does the tank have? 2 florescent bulbs, 10w each (the kind that look like 2 "U" shaped bulbs in one) 5. Does it get any sunlight? It gets some morning sun, but I can start to keep the blinds closed. I thought the natural light would be good - oops 6. Test numbers a/o tonight after doing 25% PWC: NH3 = 0 NO2 = <0.3 NO-3 = 40 PH = 7.0 GH = 7 KH = 2  I hope we can figure this out - this stuff is really ugly. :( Thanks! Catherine --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@...> wrote: > > You are getting algae. Algae is perfectly normal and grows in nearly > every aquarium but there are things you can do to keep it under > control. It will not hurt your fish as long as it doesn't get to the > point where it completely overtakes the tank. Algae is natural but > when it starts to get out of control, it usually means that you might > need to change the way you are maintaining the tank. > > The plant you have is probably a type of Hornwort. See this page and > let us know if this is what you have. > http://www.plantedtank.net/forums/myplants/47-Tropical_Hornwort_Ceratophyllu m_submersum.html > > In the future, DO NOT buy any kind of fish or plant without doing > research first to make sure you are getting something that is > compatible with your tank, water, etc... but this is probably not an > issue in this case. Since you have a 10G tank, see my blog article > about compatible fish and stocking recommendations for a 10G tank so > you will have a quick guide of which fish are compatible with your > tank if you do decide to change things around in the future. > > Is the plant growing from what you can tell or is it possibly dying off? > > Tell us more about your tank maintenance and the tank in general. How > many fish? What kind of fish? How often do you do 25% PWC's (partial > water changes)? How often do you do filter maintenance? While on the > topic of filter maintenance, read my long blog article about proper > "Filter Cleaning and Maintenance" so you do not make some of these > common mistakes. What kind of lighting does the tank have? Does it > get any sunlight, since sunlight will cause algae much faster than > other lighting so you do NOT really want any direct sunlight? > > Do you happen to have any test kits for things like ammonia, nitrite, > nitrate, pH, etc? If you do, give us those test results in numbers > (Note that OK or Safe are not numbers. ;-)). > > There's a lot more to ask but I'll wait for your answers. > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles > referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically > under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) > > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] > On Behalf Of cat.rose > Sent: Saturday, November 07, 2009 9:39 AM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Subject: [AquaticLife] Plants growing black hair - eek. > > Hey all! > > Things have been going good here with my 10 gal FW tank. About a month > or more ago I bought sone new plants at PetSmart: don't know the name > but they're fluffy, kind of angel hairy types, bright green. > > Well a couple weeks ago I was doing my PWC and noticed what looked > like clumps of my roommate's black hair in the tank. Since I'm the > only one who ever cleans the tank, I was very confused as to how this > happened as I'm pretty meticulous with the tank/fish. > > Well, it seems these plants are "growing" long black "hair"! It > doesn't seem like the plant is dying and turning black because the > black hairs are much longer than the green parts. It looks kind of > gross, and the hairs are breaking off or something cuz they're not > just on the live plants but bits scattered around the tank too. > > Should I immediately take out the plants and throw them out? Can it > hurt my fish? I'm sure it's clogging up the filter, which I probably > need to clean now too. > > Looks rather frightening in there now... > > Thanks! > Catherine

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 44342	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 11/8/2009
Subject: Re: Aquarium heater sedimentation?

I cannot say for sure, but it may be diatoms. Try scraping it off with a single edge razor blade. Just watch your fingers, as the curved surface of the heater makes it a bit difficult to effectively scrape. Scrape around the cylinder rather than up and down it. \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Jade Sent: Sunday, November 08, 2009 10:29 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Aquarium heater sedimentation? I have a hard light brown (tanish) substance covering the tube of my aquarium heater... is this sediment? I was wondering if that's what's causing my high Ph (there's absolutely nothing else in there that could do it...). How do I clean it off? I've had the problem before... and in attempts to clean it the heater actually cracked (thankfully it wasn't in the tank at the time.) Any ideas/suggestions/help would be appreciated :)

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 44343	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 11/8/2009
Subject: Re: Aquarium heater sedimentation?

How long have you had your tank set up? Do you have this "brown substance) on the gravel, other decorations, glass, etc? Give us more details about your tank. Size, stocking, fish species, etc. Give us a little info on your fish keeping skills also. What is your pH level and why do you think it is high? Contrary to some of the bottles of crap that some stores sell, you do NOT need a pH of 7.0 in order to keep fish and in fact, a higher or lower pH is often better for many species of fish. How did you crack your heater by cleaning it? Did you drop it or something? I can't imagine scrubbing it with a brush would break it unless it already had a fracture or stress crack. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Jade Sent: Sunday, November 08, 2009 9:29 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Aquarium heater sedimentation? I have a hard light brown (tanish) substance covering the tube of my aquarium heater... is this sediment? I was wondering if that's what's causing my high Ph (there's absolutely nothing else in there that could do it...). How do I clean it off? I've had the problem before... and in attempts to clean it the heater actually cracked (thankfully it wasn't in the tank at the time.) Any ideas/suggestions/help would be appreciated :)

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 44344	From: Donna Ransome	Date: 11/9/2009
Subject: Re: Aquarium heater sedimentation?

If it's diatoms, a brush will work. They wipe off easily. _____ From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Steve Szabo Sent: Sunday, November 08, 2009 11:10 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Aquarium heater sedimentation? I cannot say for sure, but it may be diatoms. Try scraping it off with a single edge razor blade. Just watch your fingers, as the curved surface of the heater makes it a bit difficult to effectively scrape. Scrape around the cylinder rather than up and down it. \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Jade Sent: Sunday, November 08, 2009 10:29 PM To: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Aquarium heater sedimentation? I have a hard light brown (tanish) substance covering the tube of my aquarium heater... is this sediment? I was wondering if that's what's causing my high Ph (there's absolutely nothing else in there that could do it...). How do I clean it off? I've had the problem before... and in attempts to clean it the heater actually cracked (thankfully it wasn't in the tank at the time.) Any ideas/suggestions/help would be appreciated :) [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 44345	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 11/9/2009
Subject: Re: Aquarium heater sedimentation?

Donna, Then, I take it, you have never had diatoms on a heater, where they almost become part of the glass? \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Donna Ransome Sent: Monday, November 09, 2009 7:18 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Aquarium heater sedimentation? If it's diatoms, a brush will work. They wipe off easily. _____ From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Steve Szabo Sent: Sunday, November 08, 2009 11:10 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Aquarium heater sedimentation? I cannot say for sure, but it may be diatoms. Try scraping it off with a single edge razor blade. Just watch your fingers, as the curved surface of the heater makes it a bit difficult to effectively scrape. Scrape around the cylinder rather than up and down it. \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Jade Sent: Sunday, November 08, 2009 10:29 PM To: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Aquarium heater sedimentation? I have a hard light brown (tanish) substance covering the tube of my aquarium heater... is this sediment? I was wondering if that's what's causing my high Ph (there's absolutely nothing else in there that could do it...). How do I clean it off? I've had the problem before... and in attempts to clean it the heater actually cracked (thankfully it wasn't in the tank at the time.) Any ideas/suggestions/help would be appreciated :) [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] ------------------------------------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. 74/`7.88.><((((:>.74/`7.88.74/`7.8><((((:> 8.74/`7.8. , .74/`7..><((((:> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <:((((><.74/`7.88.74/`7.8<:((((><8.74/`7.8. , .74/`7..<:((((><74/`7.88. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the home page. Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com to receive the digest, which includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com for the No E-Mail option where you will still be able to read messages on the group and post replies. Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com to receive individual e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 44346	From: Donna Ransome	Date: 11/9/2009
Subject: Re: Aquarium heater sedimentation?

No never had that I'm happy to say. Didn't even know it was possible. _____ From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Steve Szabo Sent: Monday, November 09, 2009 8:07 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Aquarium heater sedimentation? Donna, Then, I take it, you have never had diatoms on a heater, where they almost become part of the glass? \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Donna Ransome Sent: Monday, November 09, 2009 7:18 AM To: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Aquarium heater sedimentation? If it's diatoms, a brush will work. They wipe off easily. _____ From: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Steve Szabo Sent: Sunday, November 08, 2009 11:10 PM To: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Aquarium heater sedimentation? I cannot say for sure, but it may be diatoms. Try scraping it off with a single edge razor blade. Just watch your fingers, as the curved surface of the heater makes it a bit difficult to effectively scrape. Scrape around the cylinder rather than up and down it. \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Jade Sent: Sunday, November 08, 2009 10:29 PM To: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Aquarium heater sedimentation? I have a hard light brown (tanish) substance covering the tube of my aquarium heater... is this sediment? I was wondering if that's what's causing my high Ph (there's absolutely nothing else in there that could do it...). How do I clean it off? I've had the problem before... and in attempts to clean it the heater actually cracked (thankfully it wasn't in the tank at the time.) Any ideas/suggestions/help would be appreciated :) [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] ------------------------------------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. 74/`7.88.><((((:>.74/`7.88.74/`7.8><((((:> 8.74/`7.8. , .74/`7..><((((:> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <:((((><.74/`7.88.74/`7.8<:((((><8.74/`7.8. , .74/`7..<:((((><74/`7.88. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the home page. Or e-mail aquaticlife- <mailto:aquaticlife-digest%40yahoogroups.com> digest@yahoogroups.com to receive the digest, which includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email Or email aquaticlife- <mailto:aquaticlife-nomail%40yahoogroups.com> nomail@yahoogroups.com for the No E-Mail option where you will still be able to read messages on the group and post replies. Or email aquaticlife- <mailto:aquaticlife-normal%40yahoogroups.com> normal@yahoogroups.com to receive individual e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 44347	From: cat.rose	Date: 11/9/2009
Subject: Re: Plants growing black hair - eek.

Here are my answers: (1) I must have all boys or all girls with my Glo-Fish and Guppies because there's been no babies that I've ever seen and I've had them since Feburary '09. Both my platies are females, but I think Gus (thought she was a boy when I first got her!) was prego when I bought her because she had some babies. Only 1 survived, Sonic, who I believe is a male. Uh oh... I hope they don't mate!! (It's cute because he must know she's his mother cause he follows her around a lot and stays by her side! It's very "Finding Nemo".) I have no plans to buy any more fish as I do NOT want to overstock them. (2) I'll step up the 25% PWCs to 2x/week, and clean the filter once/week. (3) When I first bought the tank/hood, all PetSmart had was the tubular incandescent bulbs (I think 10W each?), but they would make the tank super hot. I went to WalMart and found the florescent ones that I have now, which are much cooler, but yes, MUCH brighter. For awhile I unscrewed one bulb but then half the tank was dark, and it seemed the plants on that half started looking poorly. I would love a different hood where I could put those long skinny bulbs that I read about (Sorry, I don't know the correct name of those yet! I still feel like a newbie). I've seen a couple hoods online for a 10 gallon tank, but it's hard to tell what type of bulbs will fit them. Can you recommend a product? For the first several months after I got the tank they would get about 1-1/2 hours of light in the morning before work, then I'd turn off the light when I left for work, and turn the tank on again in the evening for about 3-4 hours after I got home. So that was a total of 5-6 hours of light. But I read somewhere about following real-time daylight hours that would match what they'd get in the wild, and so I've been turning the light on when I get up in the morning around 7:30-8:00am, and turning it off when I get home from work, no later than 8:00pm. So lately the lights have been on for about 12 hours. And maybe this is why I got the BB algae because I never saw a lick of it when I did my other lighting schedule. Maybe I should go back to that? I was just worried they weren't getting enough light. (4) After looking at the link you posted I believe the plants are hornworts. I can try taking a picture and uploading it at some point also. I just got them because they were pretty... :) And also because I thought the fish might like to hide/chill out in the plants. I've pinched off a bunch of the plants that had the most algae and it's a little better, but there's still hairs everywhere. Blech. Thanks so much! Catherine --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@...> wrote: > RE: [AquaticLife] Re: Plants growing black hair - eek. Reply to 5. first - OK. A big step is keeping the sun out. That is a BIG part of the algae problem. Natural light is good for plants but in nature, there's a lot more water per fish so they do not have the pollution problems that our tanks have and even in lakes/streams with lots of algae, it's not an issue since we are not looking into the side of the lake/stream so the algae is not an issue like in our tanks. Reply to 1. - Your stocking isn't too bad except the GloFish (Zebra Danios) should be in a school of six or more but that would make you overstocked but not by much if your other fish did not breed but presuming they will, do NOT buy any more ZD's for now... but read on for my thoughts of a plan for you. I'm guessing you've had more than the 2 guppies and 3 platies in the past... right? Livebearers are NOT the best fish to keep in a 10G tank as they easily breed and have so many babies that the bioload can become a major water quality problem but as long as the fish keeper is willing to do the more frequent PWC's, filter maintenance, etc., to keep up with the bioload until the babies can be rehomed, then it would be OK. Of course, having all males of livebearers can work in a 10G tank since you would not have the breeding issues and the males are usually the prettier of the species anyhow... for most species except us humans. :-( Did you get the Hornwort plant (if this is what you have) as a way of giving the babies a way of hiding to avoid being eaten? I know this is a common plant used for this purpose... but in your case, you cannot afford the added bioload of a bunch of surviving babies. You never said what type of plant you have. Did you look at the link I provided? Is this what you have? Do you know anyone else that has Zebra Danios and are understocked with them? One or the other could take the undersized school off of the other in exchange for other fish. This would fill up the school of Zebra Danios without adding to the bioload of either tank. It would be better if you filled up the school of ZD's and gave up either the guppies or platies in exchange. Reply to 2. - While once a week is a good general schedule for 25% PWC's, in a tank that is having water quality problems or is overstocked, then the schedule needs to be increased. In your case, you are not overstocked, although I suspect you were recently due to having lots of fry but I'll wait for your reply. Your nitrates (NO3-) are not in any kind of danger zone but since you are having algae issues, you could start doing two 25% PWC's a week until they are down and being maintained in the 10 - 20ppm range. Reply to 3. - Since you've read my article on Filter Maintenance and considering your slightly elevated nitrates and algae issue, you should start doing weekly PROPER maintenance by cleaning the filter pads/cartridges in removed tank water to get as much of the detritus off without harming your nitrifying bacteria colonies too much. Even after you get your tank back in the shape you like, stick with weekly PWC's and filter maintenance to keep it from getting bad again and so that your fish are swimming around in nice cleaner water instead of water diluted / polluted with their waste and decaying detritus. Reply to 4. - Are these the bulbs that came with the hood or did you have two tubular incandescent bulbs... usually 7.5W each, at first? Those 10W bulbs you now have are CFL's (Compact Fluorescent Light bulbs) and they put out a LOT more light (lumens) than those two 7.5W incandescent bulbs. One of those 10W CFL's probably puts out lumens comparable to a 40W incandescent bulb or around 20W of normal fluorescent lighting so your tank has VERY STRONG lighting now... which is also, likely contributing to your algae issue. If you were leaving your lights on for 10 hours a day, cut them back to 9 hours/day for a week, then back to 8 hours/day for a week and you might have to go down to 6 hours/day until you find the lighting schedule that works for your plants without causing algae. Let us know what your lighting schedule was. Reply to 6. - Your test results aren't bad but see above about your nitrate (NO3-) level and a simple plan to fix that minor problem. See my questions above... mainly about what kind of plant that you have (or take a picture and post it and we should be able to ID it for you) and what your lighting schedule was. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of cat.rose Sent: Sunday, November 08, 2009 9:00 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Plants growing black hair - eek. Hi Lenny, Here's the answers to your questions: 1. How many fish? - 2 guppies, 2 GloFish, 3 platies (one is a baby/few months old) 2. How often do you do 25% PWC's? - Once a week 3. How often do you do filter maintenance? Once a month (and after doing it the wrong way the first time, I read your blog & do know the proper way to clean filter!) :) 4. What kind of lighting does the tank have? 2 florescent bulbs, 10w each (the kind that look like 2 "U" shaped bulbs in one) 5. Does it get any sunlight? It gets some morning sun, but I can start to keep the blinds closed. I thought the natural light would be good - oops 6. Test numbers a/o tonight after doing 25% PWC: NH3 = 0 NO2 = <0.3 NO-3 = 40 PH = 7.0 GH = 7 KH = 2 I hope we can figure this out - this stuff is really ugly. :( Thanks! Catherine --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@...> wrote: > > You are getting algae. Algae is perfectly normal and grows in nearly > every aquarium but there are things you can do to keep it under > control. It will not hurt your fish as long as it doesn't get to the > point where it completely overtakes the tank. Algae is natural but > when it starts to get out of control, it usually means that you might > need to change the way you are maintaining the tank. > > The plant you have is probably a type of Hornwort. See this page and > let us know if this is what you have. > http://www.plantedtank.net/forums/myplants/47-Tropical_Hornwort_Ceratophyllu m_submersum.html > > In the future, DO NOT buy any kind of fish or plant without doing > research first to make sure you are getting something that is > compatible with your tank, water, etc... but this is probably not an > issue in this case. Since you have a 10G tank, see my blog article > about compatible fish and stocking recommendations for a 10G tank so > you will have a quick guide of which fish are compatible with your > tank if you do decide to change things around in the future. > > Is the plant growing from what you can tell or is it possibly dying off? > > Tell us more about your tank maintenance and the tank in general. How > many fish? What kind of fish? How often do you do 25% PWC's (partial > water changes)? How often do you do filter maintenance? While on the > topic of filter maintenance, read my long blog article about proper > "Filter Cleaning and Maintenance" so you do not make some of these > common mistakes. What kind of lighting does the tank have? Does it > get any sunlight, since sunlight will cause algae much faster than > other lighting so you do NOT really want any direct sunlight? > > Do you happen to have any test kits for things like ammonia, nitrite, > nitrate, pH, etc? If you do, give us those test results in numbers > (Note that OK or Safe are not numbers. ;-)). > > There's a lot more to ask but I'll wait for your answers. > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles > referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically > under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) > > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] > On Behalf Of cat.rose > Sent: Saturday, November 07, 2009 9:39 AM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Subject: [AquaticLife] Plants growing black hair - eek. > > Hey all! > > Things have been going good here with my 10 gal FW tank. About a month > or more ago I bought sone new plants at PetSmart: don't know the name > but they're fluffy, kind of angel hairy types, bright green. > > Well a couple weeks ago I was doing my PWC and noticed what looked > like clumps of my roommate's black hair in the tank. Since I'm the > only one who ever cleans the tank, I was very confused as to how this happened as I'm pretty meticulous with the tank/fish. > > Well, it seems these plants are "growing" long black "hair"! It > doesn't seem like the plant is dying and turning black because the > black hairs are much longer than the green parts. It looks kind of > gross, and the hairs are breaking off or something cuz they're not > just on the live plants but bits scattered around the tank too. > > Should I immediately take out the plants and throw them out? Can it > hurt my fish? I'm sure it's clogging up the filter, which I probably > need to clean now too. > > Looks rather frightening in there now... > > Thanks! > Catherine

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 44348	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 11/9/2009
Subject: Re: Plants growing black hair - eek.

1. While ZD's (GloFish) will breed, they do not breed like livebearers which are breeding machines. Even rabbits, when talking about their rabbit neighbors say, "Damn, they breed like guppies!". He's probably not following her around thinking, "she's mommy", he's probably following her around saying "Hey baby... you're fine!", as he may be ready to breed already and yes, they will breed. You're lucky you only had one drop of fry. Female guppies can have several drops from one impregnation. It's good that you're not planning on buying more fish but still look for someone else with ZD's and/or GloFish and either you or they can give up their left-over schools so that one of you will have a bigger school. As I stated earlier, it would be better for you to keep a school of ZD's and exchange either your guppies or platys so at least you'll only have one species of livebearers (rapid breeders). 2. Good. Let us know the progress on the algae between this and eliminating the sunlight and reducing the time on your tank lights. 3. There's nothing wrong with your hood, except as you noted, the two incandescent bulbs would cause the water to get warm. I figured that was what you had and swapped them out. You should have gone with smaller 7W CFL Tubular or Chandelier type bulbs like these, and the Tubular bulb is a "Daylight" bulb which is better for the plants than the "Soft White" Chandelier bulb. http://www.homedepot.com/Electrical-Light-Bulbs-Compact-Tube-Fluorescents/h_ d1/N-5yc1vZ1xr5Zbmae/R-100661891/h_d2/ProductDisplay?langId=-1&storeId=10051 &catalogId=10053 http://www.homedepot.com/Electrical-Light-Bulbs-Compact-Tube-Fluorescents-Co mpact-Fluorescents/h_d1/N-5yc1vZ1xr5Zbmat/R-100686986/h_d2/ProductDisplay?la ngId=-1&storeId=10051&catalogId=10053 Either of these would be better for your tank, instead of the 13W CFL four tube type. This would have lessened the amount of light by nearly 50%. Unfortunately, these types of bulbs do not come in the various lighting ranges that are better for plants and less good for algae but you are limited in the bulbs you can choose from and the tubular one, above, would be the better of the two. Several manufacturers make a 10G aquarium cover with a built in 18" normal fluorescent tube (15W) which works fine for easy to grow plants in a 10G tank but if you just go with the tubular (or chandelier) bulbs above, that would make your current hood and lighting far more acceptable. 4. If the algae is growing on the glass, they sell algae scrapers but an old plastic credit/debit card works fine for this purpose also. Just do one glass panel a week in the beginning so you do not disrupt the ecology of the tank too much. The algae came on slowly (usually) and it should be beaten back slowly so the rest of the ecology doesn't get shocked too much. I think your current plan of no sunlight, less tank lighting hours (and/or lower Watt bulbs) doing more frequent PWC's and filter maintenance will cause the algae to start dying back on it's own but it will take several weeks (or more) before you have it under control and I know myself and many other fish keepers actually let the algae grow on the back pane of glass since algae WILL be in every fish tank to some degree, so allowing it to grow (controlled) in an area where it compliments the tank and/or makes it look more natural can be a good thing. Further, algae is just a single celled plant so it takes in polluting nutrients like nitrates/phosphates and also takes in CO2 and puts out O2 during photosynthesis so it actually makes the overall ecology of the tank better for the fish. Your fish also graze on algae, to supplement their diets, and other fish (generically referred to as "algae eaters") eat a LOT of it but you cannot handle the added bioload of more fish which is why I haven't mentioned this before. DO NOT go with any "algae eaters" but if you ever decide to revamp your tank and change your stocking, you could go with a Clown Pleco (only grows to around 4-5") which would work as an algae eating fish but they are also wide bodied so it would take up about half the bioload capability of a 10G tank so you could only have a school of small minnow type fish to go along with it. Of course, having more plants to fill in the aquascaping of the tank would improve the overall look. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of cat.rose Sent: Monday, November 09, 2009 4:38 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Plants growing black hair - eek. Here are my answers: (1) I must have all boys or all girls with my Glo-Fish and Guppies because there's been no babies that I've ever seen and I've had them since Feburary '09. Both my platies are females, but I think Gus (thought she was a boy when I first got her!) was prego when I bought her because she had some babies. Only 1 survived, Sonic, who I believe is a male. Uh oh... I hope they don't mate!! (It's cute because he must know she's his mother cause he follows her around a lot and stays by her side! It's very "Finding Nemo".) I have no plans to buy any more fish as I do NOT want to overstock them. (2) I'll step up the 25% PWCs to 2x/week, and clean the filter once/week. (3) When I first bought the tank/hood, all PetSmart had was the tubular incandescent bulbs (I think 10W each?), but they would make the tank super hot. I went to WalMart and found the florescent ones that I have now, which are much cooler, but yes, MUCH brighter. For awhile I unscrewed one bulb but then half the tank was dark, and it seemed the plants on that half started looking poorly. I would love a different hood where I could put those long skinny bulbs that I read about (Sorry, I don't know the correct name of those yet! I still feel like a newbie). I've seen a couple hoods online for a 10 gallon tank, but it's hard to tell what type of bulbs will fit them. Can you recommend a product? For the first several months after I got the tank they would get about 1-1/2 hours of light in the morning before work, then I'd turn off the light when I left for work, and turn the tank on again in the evening for about 3-4 hours after I got home. So that was a total of 5-6 hours of light. But I read somewhere about following real-time daylight hours that would match what they'd get in the wild, and so I've been turning the light on when I get up in the morning around 7:30-8:00am, and turning it off when I get home from work, no later than 8:00pm. So lately the lights have been on for about 12 hours. And maybe this is why I got the BB algae because I never saw a lick of it when I did my other lighting schedule. Maybe I should go back to that? I was just worried they weren't getting enough light. (4) After looking at the link you posted I believe the plants are hornworts. I can try taking a picture and uploading it at some point also. I just got them because they were pretty... :) And also because I thought the fish might like to hide/chill out in the plants. I've pinched off a bunch of the plants that had the most algae and it's a little better, but there's still hairs everywhere. Blech. Thanks so much! Catherine --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@...> wrote: > RE: [AquaticLife] Re: Plants growing black hair - eek. Reply to 5. first - OK. A big step is keeping the sun out. That is a BIG part of the algae problem. Natural light is good for plants but in nature, there's a lot more water per fish so they do not have the pollution problems that our tanks have and even in lakes/streams with lots of algae, it's not an issue since we are not looking into the side of the lake/stream so the algae is not an issue like in our tanks. Reply to 1. - Your stocking isn't too bad except the GloFish (Zebra Danios) should be in a school of six or more but that would make you overstocked but not by much if your other fish did not breed but presuming they will, do NOT buy any more ZD's for now... but read on for my thoughts of a plan for you. I'm guessing you've had more than the 2 guppies and 3 platies in the past... right? Livebearers are NOT the best fish to keep in a 10G tank as they easily breed and have so many babies that the bioload can become a major water quality problem but as long as the fish keeper is willing to do the more frequent PWC's, filter maintenance, etc., to keep up with the bioload until the babies can be rehomed, then it would be OK. Of course, having all males of livebearers can work in a 10G tank since you would not have the breeding issues and the males are usually the prettier of the species anyhow... for most species except us humans. :-( Did you get the Hornwort plant (if this is what you have) as a way of giving the babies a way of hiding to avoid being eaten? I know this is a common plant used for this purpose... but in your case, you cannot afford the added bioload of a bunch of surviving babies. You never said what type of plant you have. Did you look at the link I provided? Is this what you have? Do you know anyone else that has Zebra Danios and are understocked with them? One or the other could take the undersized school off of the other in exchange for other fish. This would fill up the school of Zebra Danios without adding to the bioload of either tank. It would be better if you filled up the school of ZD's and gave up either the guppies or platies in exchange. Reply to 2. - While once a week is a good general schedule for 25% PWC's, in a tank that is having water quality problems or is overstocked, then the schedule needs to be increased. In your case, you are not overstocked, although I suspect you were recently due to having lots of fry but I'll wait for your reply. Your nitrates (NO3-) are not in any kind of danger zone but since you are having algae issues, you could start doing two 25% PWC's a week until they are down and being maintained in the 10 - 20ppm range. Reply to 3. - Since you've read my article on Filter Maintenance and considering your slightly elevated nitrates and algae issue, you should start doing weekly PROPER maintenance by cleaning the filter pads/cartridges in removed tank water to get as much of the detritus off without harming your nitrifying bacteria colonies too much. Even after you get your tank back in the shape you like, stick with weekly PWC's and filter maintenance to keep it from getting bad again and so that your fish are swimming around in nice cleaner water instead of water diluted / polluted with their waste and decaying detritus. Reply to 4. - Are these the bulbs that came with the hood or did you have two tubular incandescent bulbs... usually 7.5W each, at first? Those 10W bulbs you now have are CFL's (Compact Fluorescent Light bulbs) and they put out a LOT more light (lumens) than those two 7.5W incandescent bulbs. One of those 10W CFL's probably puts out lumens comparable to a 40W incandescent bulb or around 20W of normal fluorescent lighting so your tank has VERY STRONG lighting now... which is also, likely contributing to your algae issue. If you were leaving your lights on for 10 hours a day, cut them back to 9 hours/day for a week, then back to 8 hours/day for a week and you might have to go down to 6 hours/day until you find the lighting schedule that works for your plants without causing algae. Let us know what your lighting schedule was. Reply to 6. - Your test results aren't bad but see above about your nitrate (NO3-) level and a simple plan to fix that minor problem. See my questions above... mainly about what kind of plant that you have (or take a picture and post it and we should be able to ID it for you) and what your lighting schedule was. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of cat.rose Sent: Sunday, November 08, 2009 9:00 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Plants growing black hair - eek. Hi Lenny, Here's the answers to your questions: 1. How many fish? - 2 guppies, 2 GloFish, 3 platies (one is a baby/few months old) 2. How often do you do 25% PWC's? - Once a week 3. How often do you do filter maintenance? Once a month (and after doing it the wrong way the first time, I read your blog & do know the proper way to clean filter!) :) 4. What kind of lighting does the tank have? 2 florescent bulbs, 10w each (the kind that look like 2 "U" shaped bulbs in one) 5. Does it get any sunlight? It gets some morning sun, but I can start to keep the blinds closed. I thought the natural light would be good - oops 6. Test numbers a/o tonight after doing 25% PWC: NH3 = 0 NO2 = <0.3 NO-3 = 40 PH = 7.0 GH = 7 KH = 2 I hope we can figure this out - this stuff is really ugly. :( Thanks! Catherine --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@...> wrote: > > You are getting algae. Algae is perfectly normal and grows in nearly > every aquarium but there are things you can do to keep it under > control. It will not hurt your fish as long as it doesn't get to the > point where it completely overtakes the tank. Algae is natural but > when it starts to get out of control, it usually means that you might > need to change the way you are maintaining the tank. > > The plant you have is probably a type of Hornwort. See this page and > let us know if this is what you have. > http://www.plantedtank.net/forums/myplants/47-Tropical_Hornwort_Ceratophyllu m_submersum.html > > In the future, DO NOT buy any kind of fish or plant without doing > research first to make sure you are getting something that is > compatible with your tank, water, etc... but this is probably not an > issue in this case. Since you have a 10G tank, see my blog article > about compatible fish and stocking recommendations for a 10G tank so > you will have a quick guide of which fish are compatible with your > tank if you do decide to change things around in the future. > > Is the plant growing from what you can tell or is it possibly dying off? > > Tell us more about your tank maintenance and the tank in general. How > many fish? What kind of fish? How often do you do 25% PWC's (partial > water changes)? How often do you do filter maintenance? While on the > topic of filter maintenance, read my long blog article about proper > "Filter Cleaning and Maintenance" so you do not make some of these > common mistakes. What kind of lighting does the tank have? Does it get > any sunlight, since sunlight will cause algae much faster than other > lighting so you do NOT really want any direct sunlight? > > Do you happen to have any test kits for things like ammonia, nitrite, > nitrate, pH, etc? If you do, give us those test results in numbers > (Note that OK or Safe are not numbers. ;-)). > > There's a lot more to ask but I'll wait for your answers. > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles > referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically > under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) > > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] > On Behalf Of cat.rose > Sent: Saturday, November 07, 2009 9:39 AM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Subject: [AquaticLife] Plants growing black hair - eek. > > Hey all! > > Things have been going good here with my 10 gal FW tank. About a month > or more ago I bought sone new plants at PetSmart: don't know the name > but they're fluffy, kind of angel hairy types, bright green. > > Well a couple weeks ago I was doing my PWC and noticed what looked > like clumps of my roommate's black hair in the tank. Since I'm the > only one who ever cleans the tank, I was very confused as to how this happened as I'm pretty meticulous with the tank/fish. > > Well, it seems these plants are "growing" long black "hair"! It > doesn't seem like the plant is dying and turning black because the > black hairs are much longer than the green parts. It looks kind of > gross, and the hairs are breaking off or something cuz they're not > just on the live plants but bits scattered around the tank too. > > Should I immediately take out the plants and throw them out? Can it > hurt my fish? I'm sure it's clogging up the filter, which I probably > need to clean now too. > > Looks rather frightening in there now... > > Thanks! > Catherine

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 44349	From: Rev. Eric Roberts	Date: 11/9/2009
Subject: Re: Plants growing black hair - eek.

Get a timer. They have some multi-plug timers you can get pretty cheap. it keeps the time consistent. What would be really cool is if they had one that can reduce and expand the time the lights are on based on time of year. Most of the hoods you are seeing that have light fixtures use the standard fluorescent tubes. If you are just using those bulbs and staying to a 10-12 hour daylight span, you should be fine. You may want to look into getting a couple of dwarf plecos to help keep the algae down. Dwarf plecos only get a few inches long (as opposed to their regular cousins that can get pretty huge). Eric From: cat.rose Sent: Monday, November 09, 2009 4:37 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Plants growing black hair - eek. Here are my answers: (1) I must have all boys or all girls with my Glo-Fish and Guppies because there's been no babies that I've ever seen and I've had them since Feburary '09. Both my platies are females, but I think Gus (thought she was a boy when I first got her!) was prego when I bought her because she had some babies. Only 1 survived, Sonic, who I believe is a male. Uh oh... I hope they don't mate!! (It's cute because he must know she's his mother cause he follows her around a lot and stays by her side! It's very "Finding Nemo".) I have no plans to buy any more fish as I do NOT want to overstock them. (2) I'll step up the 25% PWCs to 2x/week, and clean the filter once/week. (3) When I first bought the tank/hood, all PetSmart had was the tubular incandescent bulbs (I think 10W each?), but they would make the tank super hot. I went to WalMart and found the florescent ones that I have now, which are much cooler, but yes, MUCH brighter. For awhile I unscrewed one bulb but then half the tank was dark, and it seemed the plants on that half started looking poorly. I would love a different hood where I could put those long skinny bulbs that I read about (Sorry, I don't know the correct name of those yet! I still feel like a newbie). I've seen a couple hoods online for a 10 gallon tank, but it's hard to tell what type of bulbs will fit them. Can you recommend a product? For the first several months after I got the tank they would get about 1-1/2 hours of light in the morning before work, then I'd turn off the light when I left for work, and turn the tank on again in the evening for about 3-4 hours after I got home. So that was a total of 5-6 hours of light. But I read somewhere about following real-time daylight hours that would match what they'd get in the wild, and so I've been turning the light on when I get up in the morning around 7:30-8:00am, and turning it off when I get home from work, no later than 8:00pm. So lately the lights have been on for about 12 hours. And maybe this is why I got the BB algae because I never saw a lick of it when I did my other lighting schedule. Maybe I should go back to that? I was just worried they weren't getting enough light. (4) After looking at the link you posted I believe the plants are hornworts. I can try taking a picture and uploading it at some point also. I just got them because they were pretty... :) And also because I thought the fish might like to hide/chill out in the plants. I've pinched off a bunch of the plants that had the most algae and it's a little better, but there's still hairs everywhere. Blech. Thanks so much! Catherine --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@...> wrote: > RE: [AquaticLife] Re: Plants growing black hair - eek. Reply to 5. first - OK. A big step is keeping the sun out. That is a BIG part of the algae problem. Natural light is good for plants but in nature, there's a lot more water per fish so they do not have the pollution problems that our tanks have and even in lakes/streams with lots of algae, it's not an issue since we are not looking into the side of the lake/stream so the algae is not an issue like in our tanks. Reply to 1. - Your stocking isn't too bad except the GloFish (Zebra Danios) should be in a school of six or more but that would make you overstocked but not by much if your other fish did not breed but presuming they will, do NOT buy any more ZD's for now... but read on for my thoughts of a plan for you. I'm guessing you've had more than the 2 guppies and 3 platies in the past... right? Livebearers are NOT the best fish to keep in a 10G tank as they easily breed and have so many babies that the bioload can become a major water quality problem but as long as the fish keeper is willing to do the more frequent PWC's, filter maintenance, etc., to keep up with the bioload until the babies can be rehomed, then it would be OK. Of course, having all males of livebearers can work in a 10G tank since you would not have the breeding issues and the males are usually the prettier of the species anyhow... for most species except us humans. :-( Did you get the Hornwort plant (if this is what you have) as a way of giving the babies a way of hiding to avoid being eaten? I know this is a common plant used for this purpose... but in your case, you cannot afford the added bioload of a bunch of surviving babies. You never said what type of plant you have. Did you look at the link I provided? Is this what you have? Do you know anyone else that has Zebra Danios and are understocked with them? One or the other could take the undersized school off of the other in exchange for other fish. This would fill up the school of Zebra Danios without adding to the bioload of either tank. It would be better if you filled up the school of ZD's and gave up either the guppies or platies in exchange. Reply to 2. - While once a week is a good general schedule for 25% PWC's, in a tank that is having water quality problems or is overstocked, then the schedule needs to be increased. In your case, you are not overstocked, although I suspect you were recently due to having lots of fry but I'll wait for your reply. Your nitrates (NO3-) are not in any kind of danger zone but since you are having algae issues, you could start doing two 25% PWC's a week until they are down and being maintained in the 10 - 20ppm range. Reply to 3. - Since you've read my article on Filter Maintenance and considering your slightly elevated nitrates and algae issue, you should start doing weekly PROPER maintenance by cleaning the filter pads/cartridges in removed tank water to get as much of the detritus off without harming your nitrifying bacteria colonies too much. Even after you get your tank back in the shape you like, stick with weekly PWC's and filter maintenance to keep it from getting bad again and so that your fish are swimming around in nice cleaner water instead of water diluted / polluted with their waste and decaying detritus. Reply to 4. - Are these the bulbs that came with the hood or did you have two tubular incandescent bulbs... usually 7.5W each, at first? Those 10W bulbs you now have are CFL's (Compact Fluorescent Light bulbs) and they put out a LOT more light (lumens) than those two 7.5W incandescent bulbs. One of those 10W CFL's probably puts out lumens comparable to a 40W incandescent bulb or around 20W of normal fluorescent lighting so your tank has VERY STRONG lighting now... which is also, likely contributing to your algae issue. If you were leaving your lights on for 10 hours a day, cut them back to 9 hours/day for a week, then back to 8 hours/day for a week and you might have to go down to 6 hours/day until you find the lighting schedule that works for your plants without causing algae. Let us know what your lighting schedule was. Reply to 6. - Your test results aren't bad but see above about your nitrate (NO3-) level and a simple plan to fix that minor problem. See my questions above... mainly about what kind of plant that you have (or take a picture and post it and we should be able to ID it for you) and what your lighting schedule was. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of cat.rose Sent: Sunday, November 08, 2009 9:00 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Plants growing black hair - eek. Hi Lenny, Here's the answers to your questions: 1. How many fish? - 2 guppies, 2 GloFish, 3 platies (one is a baby/few months old) 2. How often do you do 25% PWC's? - Once a week 3. How often do you do filter maintenance? Once a month (and after doing it the wrong way the first time, I read your blog & do know the proper way to clean filter!) :) 4. What kind of lighting does the tank have? 2 florescent bulbs, 10w each (the kind that look like 2 "U" shaped bulbs in one) 5. Does it get any sunlight? It gets some morning sun, but I can start to keep the blinds closed. I thought the natural light would be good - oops 6. Test numbers a/o tonight after doing 25% PWC: NH3 = 0 NO2 = <0.3 NO-3 = 40 PH = 7.0 GH = 7 KH = 2 I hope we can figure this out - this stuff is really ugly. :( Thanks! Catherine --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@...> wrote: > > You are getting algae. Algae is perfectly normal and grows in nearly > every aquarium but there are things you can do to keep it under > control. It will not hurt your fish as long as it doesn't get to the > point where it completely overtakes the tank. Algae is natural but > when it starts to get out of control, it usually means that you might > need to change the way you are maintaining the tank. > > The plant you have is probably a type of Hornwort. See this page and > let us know if this is what you have. > http://www.plantedtank.net/forums/myplants/47-Tropical_Hornwort_Ceratophyllu m_submersum.html > > In the future, DO NOT buy any kind of fish or plant without doing > research first to make sure you are getting something that is > compatible with your tank, water, etc... but this is probably not an > issue in this case. Since you have a 10G tank, see my blog article > about compatible fish and stocking recommendations for a 10G tank so > you will have a quick guide of which fish are compatible with your > tank if you do decide to change things around in the future. > > Is the plant growing from what you can tell or is it possibly dying off? > > Tell us more about your tank maintenance and the tank in general. How > many fish? What kind of fish? How often do you do 25% PWC's (partial > water changes)? How often do you do filter maintenance? While on the > topic of filter maintenance, read my long blog article about proper > "Filter Cleaning and Maintenance" so you do not make some of these > common mistakes. What kind of lighting does the tank have? Does it > get any sunlight, since sunlight will cause algae much faster than > other lighting so you do NOT really want any direct sunlight? > > Do you happen to have any test kits for things like ammonia, nitrite, > nitrate, pH, etc? If you do, give us those test results in numbers > (Note that OK or Safe are not numbers. ;-)). > > There's a lot more to ask but I'll wait for your answers. > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles > referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically > under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) > > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] > On Behalf Of cat.rose > Sent: Saturday, November 07, 2009 9:39 AM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Subject: [AquaticLife] Plants growing black hair - eek. > > Hey all! > > Things have been going good here with my 10 gal FW tank. About a month > or more ago I bought sone new plants at PetSmart: don't know the name > but they're fluffy, kind of angel hairy types, bright green. > > Well a couple weeks ago I was doing my PWC and noticed what looked > like clumps of my roommate's black hair in the tank. Since I'm the > only one who ever cleans the tank, I was very confused as to how this happened as I'm pretty meticulous with the tank/fish. > > Well, it seems these plants are "growing" long black "hair"! It > doesn't seem like the plant is dying and turning black because the > black hairs are much longer than the green parts. It looks kind of > gross, and the hairs are breaking off or something cuz they're not > just on the live plants but bits scattered around the tank too. > > Should I immediately take out the plants and throw them out? Can it > hurt my fish? I'm sure it's clogging up the filter, which I probably > need to clean now too. > > Looks rather frightening in there now... > > Thanks! > Catherine [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 44350	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 11/9/2009
Subject: Re: Plants growing black hair - eek.

Hi Eric, I mentioned a clown pleco in my last reply, but in retrospect, even a dwarf pleco wouldn't help with algae growing on a hornwort plant or most other plants. There's nothing for them to suck on like with a broad leafed plant and even dwarfs get too big for many plants once they mature... but they do work on the glass and other stuff pretty good. You did remind me that at least with her smaller minnow-type fish, she could go with some Cherry Shrimp and they are pretty good little algae eaters and would be able to climb the hornwort and the smaller fish wouldn't really bother the shrimp although if the shrimp have babies, the babies might become snacks to the fish. They are also a VERY SMALL bioload on a tank. I have dozens, if not hundreds in my 10G tank on a regular basis until I bring some to my LFS once a month or so. All said, the best offense against algae is a good defense... keeping it from getting out of control in the first place by proper tank maintenance, lighting and nutrient control. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Rev. Eric Roberts Sent: Monday, November 09, 2009 7:47 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: Plants growing black hair - eek. Get a timer. They have some multi-plug timers you can get pretty cheap. it keeps the time consistent. What would be really cool is if they had one that can reduce and expand the time the lights are on based on time of year. Most of the hoods you are seeing that have light fixtures use the standard fluorescent tubes. If you are just using those bulbs and staying to a 10-12 hour daylight span, you should be fine. You may want to look into getting a couple of dwarf plecos to help keep the algae down. Dwarf plecos only get a few inches long (as opposed to their regular cousins that can get pretty huge). Eric From: cat.rose Sent: Monday, November 09, 2009 4:37 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Plants growing black hair - eek. Here are my answers: (1) I must have all boys or all girls with my Glo-Fish and Guppies because there's been no babies that I've ever seen and I've had them since Feburary '09. Both my platies are females, but I think Gus (thought she was a boy when I first got her!) was prego when I bought her because she had some babies. Only 1 survived, Sonic, who I believe is a male. Uh oh... I hope they don't mate!! (It's cute because he must know she's his mother cause he follows her around a lot and stays by her side! It's very "Finding Nemo".) I have no plans to buy any more fish as I do NOT want to overstock them. (2) I'll step up the 25% PWCs to 2x/week, and clean the filter once/week. (3) When I first bought the tank/hood, all PetSmart had was the tubular incandescent bulbs (I think 10W each?), but they would make the tank super hot. I went to WalMart and found the florescent ones that I have now, which are much cooler, but yes, MUCH brighter. For awhile I unscrewed one bulb but then half the tank was dark, and it seemed the plants on that half started looking poorly. I would love a different hood where I could put those long skinny bulbs that I read about (Sorry, I don't know the correct name of those yet! I still feel like a newbie). I've seen a couple hoods online for a 10 gallon tank, but it's hard to tell what type of bulbs will fit them. Can you recommend a product? For the first several months after I got the tank they would get about 1-1/2 hours of light in the morning before work, then I'd turn off the light when I left for work, and turn the tank on again in the evening for about 3-4 hours after I got home. So that was a total of 5-6 hours of light. But I read somewhere about following real-time daylight hours that would match what they'd get in the wild, and so I've been turning the light on when I get up in the morning around 7:30-8:00am, and turning it off when I get home from work, no later than 8:00pm. So lately the lights have been on for about 12 hours. And maybe this is why I got the BB algae because I never saw a lick of it when I did my other lighting schedule. Maybe I should go back to that? I was just worried they weren't getting enough light. (4) After looking at the link you posted I believe the plants are hornworts. I can try taking a picture and uploading it at some point also. I just got them because they were pretty... :) And also because I thought the fish might like to hide/chill out in the plants. I've pinched off a bunch of the plants that had the most algae and it's a little better, but there's still hairs everywhere. Blech. Thanks so much! Catherine --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@...> wrote: > RE: [AquaticLife] Re: Plants growing black hair - eek. Reply to 5. first - OK. A big step is keeping the sun out. That is a BIG part of the algae problem. Natural light is good for plants but in nature, there's a lot more water per fish so they do not have the pollution problems that our tanks have and even in lakes/streams with lots of algae, it's not an issue since we are not looking into the side of the lake/stream so the algae is not an issue like in our tanks. Reply to 1. - Your stocking isn't too bad except the GloFish (Zebra Danios) should be in a school of six or more but that would make you overstocked but not by much if your other fish did not breed but presuming they will, do NOT buy any more ZD's for now... but read on for my thoughts of a plan for you. I'm guessing you've had more than the 2 guppies and 3 platies in the past... right? Livebearers are NOT the best fish to keep in a 10G tank as they easily breed and have so many babies that the bioload can become a major water quality problem but as long as the fish keeper is willing to do the more frequent PWC's, filter maintenance, etc., to keep up with the bioload until the babies can be rehomed, then it would be OK. Of course, having all males of livebearers can work in a 10G tank since you would not have the breeding issues and the males are usually the prettier of the species anyhow... for most species except us humans. :-( Did you get the Hornwort plant (if this is what you have) as a way of giving the babies a way of hiding to avoid being eaten? I know this is a common plant used for this purpose... but in your case, you cannot afford the added bioload of a bunch of surviving babies. You never said what type of plant you have. Did you look at the link I provided? Is this what you have? Do you know anyone else that has Zebra Danios and are understocked with them? One or the other could take the undersized school off of the other in exchange for other fish. This would fill up the school of Zebra Danios without adding to the bioload of either tank. It would be better if you filled up the school of ZD's and gave up either the guppies or platies in exchange. Reply to 2. - While once a week is a good general schedule for 25% PWC's, in a tank that is having water quality problems or is overstocked, then the schedule needs to be increased. In your case, you are not overstocked, although I suspect you were recently due to having lots of fry but I'll wait for your reply. Your nitrates (NO3-) are not in any kind of danger zone but since you are having algae issues, you could start doing two 25% PWC's a week until they are down and being maintained in the 10 - 20ppm range. Reply to 3. - Since you've read my article on Filter Maintenance and considering your slightly elevated nitrates and algae issue, you should start doing weekly PROPER maintenance by cleaning the filter pads/cartridges in removed tank water to get as much of the detritus off without harming your nitrifying bacteria colonies too much. Even after you get your tank back in the shape you like, stick with weekly PWC's and filter maintenance to keep it from getting bad again and so that your fish are swimming around in nice cleaner water instead of water diluted / polluted with their waste and decaying detritus. Reply to 4. - Are these the bulbs that came with the hood or did you have two tubular incandescent bulbs... usually 7.5W each, at first? Those 10W bulbs you now have are CFL's (Compact Fluorescent Light bulbs) and they put out a LOT more light (lumens) than those two 7.5W incandescent bulbs. One of those 10W CFL's probably puts out lumens comparable to a 40W incandescent bulb or around 20W of normal fluorescent lighting so your tank has VERY STRONG lighting now... which is also, likely contributing to your algae issue. If you were leaving your lights on for 10 hours a day, cut them back to 9 hours/day for a week, then back to 8 hours/day for a week and you might have to go down to 6 hours/day until you find the lighting schedule that works for your plants without causing algae. Let us know what your lighting schedule was. Reply to 6. - Your test results aren't bad but see above about your nitrate (NO3-) level and a simple plan to fix that minor problem. See my questions above... mainly about what kind of plant that you have (or take a picture and post it and we should be able to ID it for you) and what your lighting schedule was. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of cat.rose Sent: Sunday, November 08, 2009 9:00 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Plants growing black hair - eek. Hi Lenny, Here's the answers to your questions: 1. How many fish? - 2 guppies, 2 GloFish, 3 platies (one is a baby/few months old) 2. How often do you do 25% PWC's? - Once a week 3. How often do you do filter maintenance? Once a month (and after doing it the wrong way the first time, I read your blog & do know the proper way to clean filter!) :) 4. What kind of lighting does the tank have? 2 florescent bulbs, 10w each (the kind that look like 2 "U" shaped bulbs in one) 5. Does it get any sunlight? It gets some morning sun, but I can start to keep the blinds closed. I thought the natural light would be good - oops 6. Test numbers a/o tonight after doing 25% PWC: NH3 = 0 NO2 = <0.3 NO-3 = 40 PH = 7.0 GH = 7 KH = 2 I hope we can figure this out - this stuff is really ugly. :( Thanks! Catherine --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@...> wrote: > > You are getting algae. Algae is perfectly normal and grows in nearly > every aquarium but there are things you can do to keep it under > control. It will not hurt your fish as long as it doesn't get to the > point where it completely overtakes the tank. Algae is natural but > when it starts to get out of control, it usually means that you might > need to change the way you are maintaining the tank. > > The plant you have is probably a type of Hornwort. See this page and > let us know if this is what you have. > http://www.plantedtank.net/forums/myplants/47-Tropical_Hornwort_Ceratophyllu m_submersum.html > > In the future, DO NOT buy any kind of fish or plant without doing > research first to make sure you are getting something that is > compatible with your tank, water, etc... but this is probably not an > issue in this case. Since you have a 10G tank, see my blog article > about compatible fish and stocking recommendations for a 10G tank so > you will have a quick guide of which fish are compatible with your > tank if you do decide to change things around in the future. > > Is the plant growing from what you can tell or is it possibly dying off? > > Tell us more about your tank maintenance and the tank in general. How > many fish? What kind of fish? How often do you do 25% PWC's (partial > water changes)? How often do you do filter maintenance? While on the > topic of filter maintenance, read my long blog article about proper > "Filter Cleaning and Maintenance" so you do not make some of these > common mistakes. What kind of lighting does the tank have? Does it get > any sunlight, since sunlight will cause algae much faster than other > lighting so you do NOT really want any direct sunlight? > > Do you happen to have any test kits for things like ammonia, nitrite, > nitrate, pH, etc? If you do, give us those test results in numbers > (Note that OK or Safe are not numbers. ;-)). > > There's a lot more to ask but I'll wait for your answers. > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles > referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically > under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) > > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] > On Behalf Of cat.rose > Sent: Saturday, November 07, 2009 9:39 AM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Subject: [AquaticLife] Plants growing black hair - eek. > > Hey all! > > Things have been going good here with my 10 gal FW tank. About a month > or more ago I bought sone new plants at PetSmart: don't know the name > but they're fluffy, kind of angel hairy types, bright green. > > Well a couple weeks ago I was doing my PWC and noticed what looked > like clumps of my roommate's black hair in the tank. Since I'm the > only one who ever cleans the tank, I was very confused as to how this happened as I'm pretty meticulous with the tank/fish. > > Well, it seems these plants are "growing" long black "hair"! It > doesn't seem like the plant is dying and turning black because the > black hairs are much longer than the green parts. It looks kind of > gross, and the hairs are breaking off or something cuz they're not > just on the live plants but bits scattered around the tank too. > > Should I immediately take out the plants and throw them out? Can it > hurt my fish? I'm sure it's clogging up the filter, which I probably > need to clean now too. > > Looks rather frightening in there now... > > Thanks! > Catherine

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 44351	From: Lisa	Date: 11/9/2009
Subject: Same infection as molli effecting another of my fish

I'm having the same trouble again with one of my black female swordtails that I had with my Dalmatian molly before it died. Eye is starting to puff up, and it's very inactive. I have not seen it eat. Id've thought that the medication that my lfs gave me to treat the first case would have helped. But apparently not. I have completely removed the sick fish from the main tank, and will be keeping a close eye on it. But I will be surprised if it makes it through the next couple of days to be honest. Lisa

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 44352	From: sevenspringss@wmconnect.com	Date: 11/10/2009
Subject: Re: Same infection as molli effecting another of my fish

Lisa, Most often the condition known as "Pop-Eye" (exophthalmy) has an underlying cause, that being less than ideal water conditions. If you feel that you are adequately keeping up with frequent partial water changes to the extent that your water should be good, I would look towards the gravel and any pockets of aeromonas bacteria build-up. You may need to do deeper gravel vacuuming to ensure removal of these areas. As with any such fish health problem, your water parameters are always helpful to the group, but still may not pinpoint the cause since bacterial issues are not always associated with poor water when they may still exist in the water column, resulting from other sources. You haven't stated what medication(s) your LFS sold you for treating this condition. There are two types of pathogens associated with Pop-Eye, both internal, and they are: either viral or a Pseudomonas species of bacteria -- but usually, these bacilli. As this is an internal issue, you need a broad-spectrum medication that is ready absorbed internally, which are very few. Those that may be used towards treating this are Kanamycin (as found in Seachem's KanaPlex), Minocycline (as found in Mardel's Maracyn II) and Naladixic Acid (as in Aquarium Pharmaceutical's Nalagram), not necessarily in order of effectiveness. Treatment is most effective in the early stages of this condition, as it progresses, success of treatment diminishes. If you don't have (or can't locate) any of these types of medications on hand, you may try Epsom salts, which have effected cures also in the early stages. Starting with one Tablespoon per five gallons one the first day, repeating with 1/2 that dose on the 3rd day. You may add up to one Tablespoon per gallon (slowly) depending on the fish's stress level -- which you'll need to monitor -- and the condition's need to use more. Ray [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 44353	From: Lainey Alexander	Date: 11/10/2009
Subject: Vacuuming planted tanks

I am having trouble vacuuming in my planted tanks - I don't understand how to clean the gravel when there is so little access to the gravel due to all the plant roots. Should I use my hand to stir up the gravel and then vacuum? Or will that potentially pollute the water too much? Thanks, Lainey http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 44354	From: erikaandnewton	Date: 11/10/2009
Subject: Re: wisteria/lighting previous question/response revisited

<< When you say "two strips" do you have two 4' long two-bulb fixtures already or something else?>> i have two 4' single bulb strip lights. >> What kind of lighting do you currently have? Look at the bulbs and there should be some kind of writing on one of the ends. Give us that info if you cannot decipher it yourself.<< one bulb is a f40 t10 the other one is a sylvania daylight bulb also f40 >> It's probably 21" tall, since a common measurement for a 75G is 48"x18"x21" Tall.>> it is 21 inches tall erika wilmington de usa

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 44355	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 11/10/2009
Subject: Question about eating snails

Okay so a friend of mine was inquiring about my mystery snails for eating purposes. Since I have a mass quantity of the happy little guys and gals I figured I would give him all my large snails that are fully grown. He ended up with 5 and cooked them up as spaghetti. Now my question is this; why would the dark footed (purple) mystery snails taste much saltier than the ones with white feet? Sorry to offend anyone at the idea of eating snails, I've had to do a survival trip in my lifetime and had to survive off of limpets, so I'm sure they taste similar to limpets when cooked up, so it doesn't really offend me, LOL. Not to mention the little guys are threatening to breed me out of house and home ;) LOL. Amber

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 44356	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 11/10/2009
Subject: Re: Vacuuming planted tanks

You can not deep vacuum gravel in planted tanks where the plants roots might be... and some plants will send out really long roots. Just pass the wider siphon tube over the top of the gravel or even just rest it on the gravel from spot to spot and let the siphon suck up excess detritus but the deeper stuff will/should be used by the plants for food. Stirring it up will not *pollute* the water although it will make the water look dirtier. It will usually settle back down or be sucked into your filter from the water column. But, just because the detritus is settled to the bottom does not make the aquarium any less polluted. The water is still in constant contact with the detritus. The same goes for a filter system. Just because detritus is *caught* by a filter pad, it does not mean that it's no longer a cause of pollution. The filter system is still passing all of the water through, over and around that detritus. The only way to remove pollution from our tanks is to vacuum it out during PWC's and clean our filter pads more frequently. Weekly is good for most tank. Lightly stocked tanks may go longer. Heavily stocked tanks will need vacuuming, PWC's and filter maintenance much more frequently. There's an old saying... "Dilution is the solution to pollution!". This is why we do more frequent PWC's... to remove some of the dirty water and dilute it with clean water. The more often we do this, the cleaner the water will be... but it should be done on a regular basis and NOT in big changes as too much of a change can be just as harmful to our fish as the dirtier water. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Lainey Alexander Sent: Tuesday, November 10, 2009 9:59 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Vacuuming planted tanks I am having trouble vacuuming in my planted tanks - I don't understand how to clean the gravel when there is so little access to the gravel due to all the plant roots. Should I use my hand to stir up the gravel and then vacuum? Or will that potentially pollute the water too much? Thanks, Lainey http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 44357	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 11/10/2009
Subject: Re: wisteria/lighting previous question/response revisited

OK. So you have a total of 80 watts right now, which is just over 1 WPG, which means you only have enough lighting for low-light, easy to grow plants. See my blog article "Planted Tank: So You Want A Planted Tank" for links to lists of low-light, easy to grow plants that will do OK in your tank. You should replace those tubes at least yearly... although some say every six months. As far as I know, a 40W bulb is the highest wattage made for this type of bulb/fixture right now but you can increase your lighting (lumens) and K (Kelvin) rating. See below. NOTE - below links are for example/informational purposes only, as I know nothing about the sites. God... did I just say that? Do I really have to add disclaimers to my posts now? LOL Just laughing at myself. LOL This may be your Sylvania bulb... http://www.lightbulbemporium.com/proddetail.asp?prod=F40/EX50 and if it is, then it's the same ratings as the specs in the T-10 bulb that I copy/pasted below, which is a pretty good bulb with higher lumens and the higher K rating, although not a 6500K rated bulb. At the bottom of this page, there was a link to this bulb... http://www.lightbulbemporium.com/maxlite_51204_ml_f40t10_850_rscg.asp which has an even higher lumen rating of 3700, although not much higher than the 3550 rating but every little bit helps especially since the MaxLite bulb was a lower price than the Sylvania bulb. As you will see on this page http://www.lightbulbsdirect.com/Merchant2/merchant.mvc?page=001/CTGY/FS+Fluo rescent The second bulb down would be similar to yours, except we do not know the lumen or color spectrum rating on your bulb, unless that link I gave above is actually your bulb and then it would be the same as this one. The specs on it are: T-10 Fluorescent 40 Watts Length: 48" Medium Bi-Pin Base Color: 5000K Temperature Initial Lumens: 3550 CRI: 84 Average Life: 20,000 Hours The Color spectrum of 5000K (Kelvin) is OK but 6500K would be much better. The Lumens of 3550 is the actual amount of *light* The next bulb down from that one is a T-12, which will also fit in your fixture but they are bigger diameter bulbs and this one actually puts out less light (lumens). Here are the specs: T-12 Fluorescent 40 Watts Length: 48" Base: Medium Bi-Pin Base Initial Lumens: 2200 Average Life: 20,000 Hours Color Temperature: 5000K CRI: 92 It has the same Color spectrum but only 2200 lumens so the above T-10 bulb has around 50% more lumens (light) coming out of it. Now, if you scroll down to the second from the bottom on the page, you'll see the Verilux Instant-Sun T-12 bulb which has a higher Kelvin rating but it doesn't list the lumens so this needs to be checked out further. While the higher K rating is good, if it goes back down to only 2200 lumens, instead of the 3550 lumens of the first referenced bulb above, then I would probably go with the 3550 lumens, 5000K bulb over the 6280K bulb if the lumens were a LOT less. (START SNIP) Engineered to reproduce all the colors and balance of natural light, VeriluxR full spectrum fluorescent tubes feature Trucolite Phosphor TechnologyT which includes the use of a stable, custom blend of earth phosphors that create bright, balanced full spectrum light. T-12 Fluorescent 40 Watts Length: 48" Color Temperature: 6280K CRI: 94 Medium Bi-Pin Base (END SNIP) So, as you can see, there's a few things to look for when shopping for new replacement bulbs. Look for the 5000K to 6500K bulbs with the higher lumen rating for the dollar and you should be good. Note that a 3550 or 3700 lumen bulb will put out nearly twice as much light as a 2000 lumen bulb so it can be easy to increase your lighting without increasing the wattage. DO NOT try to use HO or VHO bulbs... which look similar but have much higher wattage, well over the 40W bulbs you now have. These other HO and VHO bulbs have different pin arrangements so they will not fit in your fixture anyhow but I just wanted to save you a trip. Last but not least, if you're handy, you could even take the bulbs out of your fixtures and line the insides of your fixtures with nice and crisp and flat aluminum foil (shiny side exposed) which will also help. Using double stick tape and then carefully applying the foil so it does not wrinkle too much will work well... especially if the inside of your fixture is black. A white reflector is good but a mirrored reflector, like that created by the shiny side of foil, is MUCH better than a black reflector. Most black fixtures do at least have white reflector areas. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of erikaandnewton Sent: Tuesday, November 10, 2009 10:17 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: wisteria/lighting previous question/response revisited << When you say "two strips" do you have two 4' long two-bulb fixtures already or something else?>> i have two 4' single bulb strip lights. >> What kind of lighting do you currently have? Look at the bulbs and >> there should be some kind of writing on one of the ends. Give us >> that info if you cannot decipher it yourself.<< one bulb is a f40 t10 the other one is a sylvania daylight bulb also f40 >> It's probably 21" tall, since a common measurement for a 75G is >> 48"x18"x21" Tall.>> it is 21 inches tall erika wilmington de usa

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 44358	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 11/10/2009
Subject: Re: Question about eating snails

Ummmm.. you (or rather your friend) shouldn't do this. Most dechlor products EXPLICITLY advise against eating ornamental fish (and probably critters too) that are kept in waters treated with a dechlor product. I think the chemicals used in dechlors cause health problems, although I doubt that five snails would matter. I think it's more for fish farms that might think about using Sodium Thiosulphate as their dechlor if they did not have a natural water source for the fish stock ponds. As far as the different taste, could it be like other meats... chicken for example, where the dark meat is much different in taste and texture than white meat? Also, for your health, please do not post this on the Applesnail.net forums.. you know them folks are zealous about their snails. They might hunt you down and throw dead snail guts on you. LOL They might even form a new radical group called PeTS... People for the Ethical Treatment of Snails. LOL And if they can't find you, they might go after every other delivery truck on your island. BTW... are you the only driver or is Ketchikan big enough for two FedEx trucks? LOL Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Amber Berglund Sent: Tuesday, November 10, 2009 10:59 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Question about eating snails Okay so a friend of mine was inquiring about my mystery snails for eating purposes. Since I have a mass quantity of the happy little guys and gals I figured I would give him all my large snails that are fully grown. He ended up with 5 and cooked them up as spaghetti. Now my question is this; why would the dark footed (purple) mystery snails taste much saltier than the ones with white feet? Sorry to offend anyone at the idea of eating snails, I've had to do a survival trip in my lifetime and had to survive off of limpets, so I'm sure they taste similar to limpets when cooked up, so it doesn't really offend me, LOL. Not to mention the little guys are threatening to breed me out of house and home ;) LOL. Amber ------------------------------------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the home page. Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com to receive the digest, which includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com for the No E-Mail option where you will still be able to read messages on the group and post replies. Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com to receive individual e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 44359	From: kuradi8	Date: 11/10/2009
Subject: More on Vacuums

I've uploaded a couple of pictures of my tank vacuum at http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife/photos/album/1062797703/pic/list and once they're approved, can anyone tell me where to get another vacuum like that? It's still OK but getting old and I haven't seen another like it in 10+ years. I sure would hate to accidentally break it! What I like about it is that it's self-priming by pumping it up and down in the water, the siphon flow is adjustable, it has a good gravel grate and it unscrews into two pieces for easy cleaning and storage. Obviously, the siphon hose is not pictured. :o) ~Kai

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 44360	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 11/10/2009
Subject: Re: More on Vacuums

Where did you get it? What country? I've never seen one like that before. I have seen gravel vacuums with pumps on them for priming the siphon, like this one, http://www.aquacave.com/jbj-gravel-vacuum-br-cleaner--auto-siphon-br-pump-26 29.html, but never that model in your pictures. I did a Google Image search of 'gravel vacuum siphon' and found this, which kind of looks like yours with the T-valve at the top, except not disassembled and not all the curves. The brand name is Tom's and maybe this is just a redesigned model. http://www.shopmania.com/shopping~online-aquarium-supplies~buy-tom-large-gra vel-vacuum-great-for-removing-debris-from-substrate~p-3794434.html I went through 4-5 pages of thumbnail images and did not see anything like yours. Do you see any kind of part numbers or brand name on any of the parts? Oftentimes, Googling just a part number will find information on the manufacturer. Sometimes, adding a key word and the part number also works great. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of kuradi8 Sent: Tuesday, November 10, 2009 1:42 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] More on Vacuums I've uploaded a couple of pictures of my tank vacuum at http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife/photos/album/1062797703/pic/list and once they're approved, can anyone tell me where to get another vacuum like that? It's still OK but getting old and I haven't seen another like it in 10+ years. I sure would hate to accidentally break it! What I like about it is that it's self-priming by pumping it up and down in the water, the siphon flow is adjustable, it has a good gravel grate and it unscrews into two pieces for easy cleaning and storage. Obviously, the siphon hose is not pictured. :o) ~Kai

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 44361	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 11/10/2009
Subject: Re: More on Vacuums

I spoke too soon in my previous reply. A couple of more pages of Google Image scanning found this... http://www.fish-fish-fish.com/?cat=Cleaning_Tools__Nets___Thermometers Scroll down to near the bottom to the Tetra-Tec HydroClean gravel vacuums and the pictures on the GC-40 and GC-50 boxes look like yours. This is a UK site so the prices are in Pounds but at least this looks like yours. They have three models/sizes. I haven't seen these in any of the only sites in the U.S. I did a Google of Tetra-Tec HydroClean and ALL of the top hits had .UK website addresses. Planning a trip to the UK any time soon? ;-) Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of kuradi8 Sent: Tuesday, November 10, 2009 1:42 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] More on Vacuums I've uploaded a couple of pictures of my tank vacuum at http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife/photos/album/1062797703/pic/list and once they're approved, can anyone tell me where to get another vacuum like that? It's still OK but getting old and I haven't seen another like it in 10+ years. I sure would hate to accidentally break it! What I like about it is that it's self-priming by pumping it up and down in the water, the siphon flow is adjustable, it has a good gravel grate and it unscrews into two pieces for easy cleaning and storage. Obviously, the siphon hose is not pictured. :o) ~Kai ------------------------------------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the home page. Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com to receive the digest, which includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com for the No E-Mail option where you will still be able to read messages on the group and post replies. Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com to receive individual e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 44362	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 11/10/2009
Subject: Re: Question about eating snails

Actually if you look on applesnail.net they list recipe's for eating your snails, LOL. And do dead snails even have guts? LOL. There are 3 drivers (for now, soon to be 4 hopefully), so they'll have to narrow it down by names, so I'll have to wear a name tag that says, "Hello my name is Fred" or something, LOL. Amber Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > > Ummmm.. you (or rather your friend) shouldn't do this. Most dechlor > products EXPLICITLY advise against eating ornamental fish (and probably > critters too) that are kept in waters treated with a dechlor product. I > think the chemicals used in dechlors cause health problems, although I > doubt > that five snails would matter. I think it's more for fish farms that might > think about using Sodium Thiosulphate as their dechlor if they did not > have > a natural water source for the fish stock ponds. > > As far as the different taste, could it be like other meats... chicken for > example, where the dark meat is much different in taste and texture than > white meat? > > Also, for your health, please do not post this on the Applesnail.net > forums.. you know them folks are zealous about their snails. They might > hunt you down and throw dead snail guts on you. LOL They might even form a > new radical group called PeTS... People for the Ethical Treatment of > Snails. > LOL And if they can't find you, they might go after every other delivery > truck on your island. BTW... are you the only driver or is Ketchikan big > enough for two FedEx trucks? LOL > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right > side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On > Behalf Of Amber Berglund > Sent: Tuesday, November 10, 2009 10:59 AM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Subject: [AquaticLife] Question about eating snails > > Okay so a friend of mine was inquiring about my mystery snails for eating > purposes. Since I have a mass quantity of the happy little guys and gals I > figured I would give him all my large snails that are fully grown. He > ended > up with 5 and cooked them up as spaghetti. Now my question is this; why > would the dark footed (purple) mystery snails taste much saltier than the > ones with white feet? > > Sorry to offend anyone at the idea of eating snails, I've had to do a > survival trip in my lifetime and had to survive off of limpets, so I'm > sure > they taste similar to limpets when cooked up, so it doesn't really offend > me, LOL. > Not to mention the little guys are threatening to breed me out of > house and > home ;) LOL. > > Amber > > ------------------------------------ > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. > ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> > PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to > the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the > SUBJECT > LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- > <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. > > If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of unsubscribing, you > can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the > home page. > > Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:aquaticlife-digest%40yahoogroups.com> to receive the digest, which > includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email > > Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:aquaticlife-nomail%40yahoogroups.com> for the No E-Mail option > where > you will still be able to read messages on the group and post replies. > > Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:aquaticlife-normal%40yahoogroups.com> to receive individual > e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 44363	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 11/10/2009
Subject: Re: wisteria/lighting previous question/response revisited

Another thing to consider is one light company's 6500 kelvin rating may not be identical to another light bulb from a different company that's rated the same. The important thing to look at is the color chart they show on the boxes, you want more red and blue light for your plants, green is not useful or harmful as the plants reflect the light back (makes them appear more green but does nothing else for them). The kelvin rating is based on our eyes and how they perceive color, so each company doesn't have to be identical, perhaps some day they will have a universal way to measure light spectrums on bulbs that is much less confusing. Amber Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > > OK. So you have a total of 80 watts right now, which is just over 1 WPG, > which means you only have enough lighting for low-light, easy to grow > plants. See my blog article "Planted Tank: So You Want A Planted Tank" for > links to lists of low-light, easy to grow plants that will do OK in your > tank. You should replace those tubes at least yearly... although some say > every six months. As far as I know, a 40W bulb is the highest wattage made > for this type of bulb/fixture right now but you can increase your lighting > (lumens) and K (Kelvin) rating. See below. > > NOTE - below links are for example/informational purposes only, as I know > nothing about the sites. God... did I just say that? Do I really have to > add disclaimers to my posts now? LOL Just laughing at myself. LOL > > This may be your Sylvania bulb... > http://www.lightbulbemporium.com/proddetail.asp?prod=F40/EX50 > <http://www.lightbulbemporium.com/proddetail.asp?prod=F40/EX50> and if > it is, > then it's the same ratings as the specs in the T-10 bulb that I > copy/pasted > below, which is a pretty good bulb with higher lumens and the higher K > rating, although not a 6500K rated bulb. At the bottom of this page, there > was a link to this bulb... > http://www.lightbulbemporium.com/maxlite_51204_ml_f40t10_850_rscg.asp > <http://www.lightbulbemporium.com/maxlite_51204_ml_f40t10_850_rscg.asp> > which > has an even higher lumen rating of 3700, although not much higher than the > 3550 rating but every little bit helps especially since the MaxLite > bulb was > a lower price than the Sylvania bulb. > > As you will see on this page > http://www.lightbulbsdirect.com/Merchant2/merchant.mvc?page=001/CTGY/FS+Fluo > <http://www.lightbulbsdirect.com/Merchant2/merchant.mvc?page=001/CTGY/FS+Fluo> > rescent > > The second bulb down would be similar to yours, except we do not know the > lumen or color spectrum rating on your bulb, unless that link I gave above > is actually your bulb and then it would be the same as this one. The specs > on it are: > > T-10 Fluorescent > 40 Watts > Length: 48" > Medium Bi-Pin Base > Color: 5000K Temperature > Initial Lumens: 3550 > CRI: 84 > Average Life: 20,000 Hours > > The Color spectrum of 5000K (Kelvin) is OK but 6500K would be much better. > The Lumens of 3550 is the actual amount of *light* > > The next bulb down from that one is a T-12, which will also fit in your > fixture but they are bigger diameter bulbs and this one actually puts out > less light (lumens). Here are the specs: > > T-12 Fluorescent > 40 Watts > Length: 48" > Base: Medium Bi-Pin Base > Initial Lumens: 2200 > Average Life: 20,000 Hours > Color Temperature: 5000K > CRI: 92 > > It has the same Color spectrum but only 2200 lumens so the above T-10 bulb > has around 50% more lumens (light) coming out of it. > > Now, if you scroll down to the second from the bottom on the page, you'll > see the Verilux Instant-Sun T-12 bulb which has a higher Kelvin rating but > it doesn't list the lumens so this needs to be checked out further. While > the higher K rating is good, if it goes back down to only 2200 lumens, > instead of the 3550 lumens of the first referenced bulb above, then I > would > probably go with the 3550 lumens, 5000K bulb over the 6280K bulb if the > lumens were a LOT less. > > (START SNIP) > Engineered to reproduce all the colors and balance of natural light, > VeriluxR full spectrum fluorescent tubes feature Trucolite Phosphor > TechnologyT which includes the use of a stable, custom blend of earth > phosphors that create bright, balanced full spectrum light. > T-12 Fluorescent > 40 Watts > Length: 48" > Color Temperature: 6280K > CRI: 94 > Medium Bi-Pin Base > (END SNIP) > > So, as you can see, there's a few things to look for when shopping for new > replacement bulbs. Look for the 5000K to 6500K bulbs with the higher lumen > rating for the dollar and you should be good. Note that a 3550 or 3700 > lumen bulb will put out nearly twice as much light as a 2000 lumen bulb so > it can be easy to increase your lighting without increasing the > wattage. DO > NOT try to use HO or VHO bulbs... which look similar but have much higher > wattage, well over the 40W bulbs you now have. These other HO and VHO > bulbs > have different pin arrangements so they will not fit in your fixture > anyhow > but I just wanted to save you a trip. > > Last but not least, if you're handy, you could even take the bulbs out of > your fixtures and line the insides of your fixtures with nice and > crisp and > flat aluminum foil (shiny side exposed) which will also help. Using double > stick tape and then carefully applying the foil so it does not wrinkle too > much will work well... especially if the inside of your fixture is > black. A > white reflector is good but a mirrored reflector, like that created by the > shiny side of foil, is MUCH better than a black reflector. Most black > fixtures do at least have white reflector areas. > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right > side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On > Behalf Of erikaandnewton > Sent: Tuesday, November 10, 2009 10:17 AM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: wisteria/lighting previous question/response > revisited > > << When you say "two strips" do you have two 4' long two-bulb fixtures > already or something else?>> > > i have two 4' single bulb strip lights. > > >> What kind of lighting do you currently have? Look at the bulbs and > >> there should be some kind of writing on one of the ends. Give us > >> that info if you cannot decipher it yourself.<< > > one bulb is a f40 t10 > the other one is a sylvania daylight bulb also f40 > > >> It's probably 21" tall, since a common measurement for a 75G is > >> 48"x18"x21" Tall.>> > > it is 21 inches tall > > erika wilmington de usa > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 44364	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 11/10/2009
Subject: Re: Question about eating snails

But... that's hopefully for snails kept in water that DOES NOT use a dechlor product like well water, etc. The chemicals in dechlor products are NOT FOR HUMAN CONSUMPTION. I'm not sure if they are carcinogenic or not but I know they have the warnings on the bottles to NOT use them on food fish. I guess one would have to eat a lot of fish from dechlored water before it would cause problems but who knows. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Amber Berglund Sent: Tuesday, November 10, 2009 4:17 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Question about eating snails Actually if you look on applesnail.net they list recipe's for eating your snails, LOL. And do dead snails even have guts? LOL. There are 3 drivers (for now, soon to be 4 hopefully), so they'll have to narrow it down by names, so I'll have to wear a name tag that says, "Hello my name is Fred" or something, LOL. Amber Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > > Ummmm.. you (or rather your friend) shouldn't do this. Most dechlor > products EXPLICITLY advise against eating ornamental fish (and > probably critters too) that are kept in waters treated with a dechlor > product. I think the chemicals used in dechlors cause health problems, > although I doubt that five snails would matter. I think it's more for > fish farms that might think about using Sodium Thiosulphate as their > dechlor if they did not have a natural water source for the fish stock > ponds. > > As far as the different taste, could it be like other meats... chicken > for example, where the dark meat is much different in taste and > texture than white meat? > > Also, for your health, please do not post this on the Applesnail.net > forums.. you know them folks are zealous about their snails. They > might hunt you down and throw dead snail guts on you. LOL They might > even form a new radical group called PeTS... People for the Ethical > Treatment of Snails. > LOL And if they can't find you, they might go after every other > delivery truck on your island. BTW... are you the only driver or is > Ketchikan big enough for two FedEx trucks? LOL > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> (Links to any articles referenced in > above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels > and also under Archives by Year, Month) > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On Behalf Of Amber Berglund > Sent: Tuesday, November 10, 2009 10:59 AM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Subject: [AquaticLife] Question about eating snails > > Okay so a friend of mine was inquiring about my mystery snails for > eating purposes. Since I have a mass quantity of the happy little guys > and gals I figured I would give him all my large snails that are fully > grown. He ended up with 5 and cooked them up as spaghetti. Now my > question is this; why would the dark footed (purple) mystery snails > taste much saltier than the ones with white feet? > > Sorry to offend anyone at the idea of eating snails, I've had to do a > survival trip in my lifetime and had to survive off of limpets, so I'm > sure they taste similar to limpets when cooked up, so it doesn't > really offend me, LOL. > Not to mention the little guys are threatening to breed me out of > house and home ;) LOL. > > Amber

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 44365	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 11/10/2009
Subject: Re: More on Vacuums

Hey while you're over there get me some of the tetra delica gel food they make that's shelf stable, LOL. I really wish they would sell that stuff in the US :( Then I wouldn't have to make my own jello food (which goes bad fast so I have to pay close attention to when I put it in the fridge to defrost, LOL). Amber Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > > I spoke too soon in my previous reply. A couple of more pages of Google > Image scanning found this... > > http://www.fish-fish-fish.com/?cat=Cleaning_Tools__Nets___Thermometers > <http://www.fish-fish-fish.com/?cat=Cleaning_Tools__Nets___Thermometers> > > Scroll down to near the bottom to the Tetra-Tec HydroClean gravel vacuums > and the pictures on the GC-40 and GC-50 boxes look like yours. This is > a UK > site so the prices are in Pounds but at least this looks like yours. They > have three models/sizes. I haven't seen these in any of the only sites in > the U.S. > > I did a Google of Tetra-Tec HydroClean and ALL of the top hits had .UK > website addresses. Planning a trip to the UK any time soon? ;-) > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right > side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On > Behalf Of kuradi8 > Sent: Tuesday, November 10, 2009 1:42 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Subject: [AquaticLife] More on Vacuums > > I've uploaded a couple of pictures of my tank vacuum at > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife/photos/album/1062797703/pic/list > <http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife/photos/album/1062797703/pic/list> > and once they're approved, can anyone tell me where to get another vacuum > like that? It's still OK but getting old and I haven't seen another > like it > in 10+ years. I sure would hate to accidentally break it! > > What I like about it is that it's self-priming by pumping it up and > down in > the water, the siphon flow is adjustable, it has a good gravel grate > and it > unscrews into two pieces for easy cleaning and storage. > > Obviously, the siphon hose is not pictured. :o) ~Kai > > ------------------------------------ > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. > ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> > PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to > the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the > SUBJECT > LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- > <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. > > If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of unsubscribing, you > can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the > home page. > > Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:aquaticlife-digest%40yahoogroups.com> to receive the digest, which > includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email > > Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:aquaticlife-nomail%40yahoogroups.com> for the No E-Mail option > where > you will still be able to read messages on the group and post replies. > > Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:aquaticlife-normal%40yahoogroups.com> to receive individual > e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 44366	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 11/10/2009
Subject: Re: Question about eating snails

They don't mention anything about dechlor products, perhaps they don't know that it's not safe? Amber Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > > But... that's hopefully for snails kept in water that DOES NOT use a > dechlor > product like well water, etc. The chemicals in dechlor products are > NOT FOR > HUMAN CONSUMPTION. I'm not sure if they are carcinogenic or not but I know > they have the warnings on the bottles to NOT use them on food fish. I > guess > one would have to eat a lot of fish from dechlored water before it would > cause problems but who knows. > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right > side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) > > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On > Behalf Of Amber Berglund > Sent: Tuesday, November 10, 2009 4:17 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Question about eating snails > > Actually if you look on applesnail.net they list recipe's for eating your > snails, LOL. > And do dead snails even have guts? LOL. > There are 3 drivers (for now, soon to be 4 hopefully), so they'll have to > narrow it down by names, so I'll have to wear a name tag that says, "Hello > my name is Fred" or something, LOL. > > Amber > > Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > > > > Ummmm.. you (or rather your friend) shouldn't do this. Most dechlor > > products EXPLICITLY advise against eating ornamental fish (and > > probably critters too) that are kept in waters treated with a dechlor > > product. I think the chemicals used in dechlors cause health problems, > > although I doubt that five snails would matter. I think it's more for > > fish farms that might think about using Sodium Thiosulphate as their > > dechlor if they did not have a natural water source for the fish stock > > ponds. > > > > As far as the different taste, could it be like other meats... chicken > > for example, where the dark meat is much different in taste and > > texture than white meat? > > > > Also, for your health, please do not post this on the Applesnail.net > > forums.. you know them folks are zealous about their snails. They > > might hunt you down and throw dead snail guts on you. LOL They might > > even form a new radical group called PeTS... People for the Ethical > > Treatment of Snails. > > LOL And if they can't find you, they might go after every other > > delivery truck on your island. BTW... are you the only driver or is > > Ketchikan big enough for two FedEx trucks? LOL > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>> > (Links to any articles referenced in > > above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels > > and also under Archives by Year, Month) > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On Behalf Of Amber Berglund > > Sent: Tuesday, November 10, 2009 10:59 AM > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > Subject: [AquaticLife] Question about eating snails > > > > Okay so a friend of mine was inquiring about my mystery snails for > > eating purposes. Since I have a mass quantity of the happy little guys > > and gals I figured I would give him all my large snails that are fully > > grown. He ended up with 5 and cooked them up as spaghetti. Now my > > question is this; why would the dark footed (purple) mystery snails > > taste much saltier than the ones with white feet? > > > > Sorry to offend anyone at the idea of eating snails, I've had to do a > > survival trip in my lifetime and had to survive off of limpets, so I'm > > sure they taste similar to limpets when cooked up, so it doesn't > > really offend me, LOL. > > Not to mention the little guys are threatening to breed me out of > > house and home ;) LOL. > > > > Amber > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 44367	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 11/10/2009
Subject: Re: Question about eating snails

Oh and here is the link for the info on eating them. http://www.applesnail.net/ click on "FAQ" then under the questions list (4th from the bottom) there is a question about eating apple snails, click on that and it takes you to all the info on their nutritional value and how to prepare them (cook them) and different recipe's. You'd think someone would have pointed out that dechlor isn't safe to consume, perhaps there are other factors that we don't know about? Amber Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > > But... that's hopefully for snails kept in water that DOES NOT use a > dechlor > product like well water, etc. The chemicals in dechlor products are > NOT FOR > HUMAN CONSUMPTION. I'm not sure if they are carcinogenic or not but I know > they have the warnings on the bottles to NOT use them on food fish. I > guess > one would have to eat a lot of fish from dechlored water before it would > cause problems but who knows. > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right > side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) > > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On > Behalf Of Amber Berglund > Sent: Tuesday, November 10, 2009 4:17 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Question about eating snails > > Actually if you look on applesnail.net they list recipe's for eating your > snails, LOL. > And do dead snails even have guts? LOL. > There are 3 drivers (for now, soon to be 4 hopefully), so they'll have to > narrow it down by names, so I'll have to wear a name tag that says, "Hello > my name is Fred" or something, LOL. > > Amber > > Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > > > > Ummmm.. you (or rather your friend) shouldn't do this. Most dechlor > > products EXPLICITLY advise against eating ornamental fish (and > > probably critters too) that are kept in waters treated with a dechlor > > product. I think the chemicals used in dechlors cause health problems, > > although I doubt that five snails would matter. I think it's more for > > fish farms that might think about using Sodium Thiosulphate as their > > dechlor if they did not have a natural water source for the fish stock > > ponds. > > > > As far as the different taste, could it be like other meats... chicken > > for example, where the dark meat is much different in taste and > > texture than white meat? > > > > Also, for your health, please do not post this on the Applesnail.net > > forums.. you know them folks are zealous about their snails. They > > might hunt you down and throw dead snail guts on you. LOL They might > > even form a new radical group called PeTS... People for the Ethical > > Treatment of Snails. > > LOL And if they can't find you, they might go after every other > > delivery truck on your island. BTW... are you the only driver or is > > Ketchikan big enough for two FedEx trucks? LOL > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>> > (Links to any articles referenced in > > above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels > > and also under Archives by Year, Month) > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On Behalf Of Amber Berglund > > Sent: Tuesday, November 10, 2009 10:59 AM > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > Subject: [AquaticLife] Question about eating snails > > > > Okay so a friend of mine was inquiring about my mystery snails for > > eating purposes. Since I have a mass quantity of the happy little guys > > and gals I figured I would give him all my large snails that are fully > > grown. He ended up with 5 and cooked them up as spaghetti. Now my > > question is this; why would the dark footed (purple) mystery snails > > taste much saltier than the ones with white feet? > > > > Sorry to offend anyone at the idea of eating snails, I've had to do a > > survival trip in my lifetime and had to survive off of limpets, so I'm > > sure they taste similar to limpets when cooked up, so it doesn't > > really offend me, LOL. > > Not to mention the little guys are threatening to breed me out of > > house and home ;) LOL. > > > > Amber > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 44368	From: kuradi8	Date: 11/10/2009
Subject: Re: More on Vacuums

I can't [Brooklyn grammar] believe you found them! =8oO =8oD Yes, I vaguely remember they came in several sizes. I got mine 10-15 years ago, probably from Petland Discounts (Long Island, NY) -- but they were also available in pet departments of discounters like TSS (a chain that has been out of business for close to 20 years.) THANK YOU for finding them! I'm going to put a new one on my Santa List, complete with a pointer to where Santa can find one for me. They're far superior to the ones that are easily available. ~Kai --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@...> wrote: > > I spoke too soon in my previous reply. A couple of more pages of Google > Image scanning found this... > > http://www.fish-fish-fish.com/?cat=Cleaning_Tools__Nets___Thermometers > > Scroll down to near the bottom to the Tetra-Tec HydroClean gravel vacuums > and the pictures on the GC-40 and GC-50 boxes look like yours. This is a UK > site so the prices are in Pounds but at least this looks like yours. They > have three models/sizes. I haven't seen these in any of the only sites in > the U.S. > > I did a Google of Tetra-Tec HydroClean and ALL of the top hits had .UK > website addresses. Planning a trip to the UK any time soon? ;-) > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right > side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) > > > > > -----Original Message----- > Kai wrote: > > I've uploaded a couple of pictures of my tank vacuum at > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife/photos/album/1062797703/pic/list > and once they're approved, can anyone tell me where to get another vacuum > like that? It's still OK but getting old and I haven't seen another like it > in 10+ years. I sure would hate to accidentally break it! > > What I like about it is that it's self-priming by pumping it up and down in > the water, the siphon flow is adjustable, it has a good gravel grate and it > unscrews into two pieces for easy cleaning and storage. > > Obviously, the siphon hose is not pictured. :o) ~Kai >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 44369	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 11/10/2009
Subject: Re: Question about eating snails

Okay to find out what the moderator's think about dechlor and eating snails I posted on applesnail.net's online forum, hopefully they can actually answer my question ;) LOL. They're usually very knowledgeable about snails though, so we shall see what their thoughts are on this. Let's hope I don't get flamed or hunted down and shot now ;) LOL Amber Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > > Ummmm.. you (or rather your friend) shouldn't do this. Most dechlor > products EXPLICITLY advise against eating ornamental fish (and probably > critters too) that are kept in waters treated with a dechlor product. I > think the chemicals used in dechlors cause health problems, although I > doubt > that five snails would matter. I think it's more for fish farms that might > think about using Sodium Thiosulphate as their dechlor if they did not > have > a natural water source for the fish stock ponds. > > As far as the different taste, could it be like other meats... chicken for > example, where the dark meat is much different in taste and texture than > white meat? > > Also, for your health, please do not post this on the Applesnail.net > forums.. you know them folks are zealous about their snails. They might > hunt you down and throw dead snail guts on you. LOL They might even form a > new radical group called PeTS... People for the Ethical Treatment of > Snails. > LOL And if they can't find you, they might go after every other delivery > truck on your island. BTW... are you the only driver or is Ketchikan big > enough for two FedEx trucks? LOL > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right > side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On > Behalf Of Amber Berglund > Sent: Tuesday, November 10, 2009 10:59 AM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Subject: [AquaticLife] Question about eating snails > > Okay so a friend of mine was inquiring about my mystery snails for eating > purposes. Since I have a mass quantity of the happy little guys and gals I > figured I would give him all my large snails that are fully grown. He > ended > up with 5 and cooked them up as spaghetti. Now my question is this; why > would the dark footed (purple) mystery snails taste much saltier than the > ones with white feet? > > Sorry to offend anyone at the idea of eating snails, I've had to do a > survival trip in my lifetime and had to survive off of limpets, so I'm > sure > they taste similar to limpets when cooked up, so it doesn't really offend > me, LOL. > Not to mention the little guys are threatening to breed me out of > house and > home ;) LOL. > > Amber > > ------------------------------------ > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. > ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> > PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to > the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the > SUBJECT > LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- > <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. > > If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of unsubscribing, you > can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the > home page. > > Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:aquaticlife-digest%40yahoogroups.com> to receive the digest, which > includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email > > Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:aquaticlife-nomail%40yahoogroups.com> for the No E-Mail option > where > you will still be able to read messages on the group and post replies. > > Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:aquaticlife-normal%40yahoogroups.com> to receive individual > e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 44370	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 11/10/2009
Subject: Re: wisteria/lighting previous question/response revisited

I think it would be false advertising or possibly mis-advertising (if they do not know any better) if a company lists their bulbs as 6500K and they aren't. The Kelvin scale, just like Watts and Lumens, are ALL universal and scientifically measurable scales BUT, as I showed below, not all 40 watt bulbs put out the same amount of light (lumens) or in the same color spectrum (Kelvin rating). All 40 watt bulbs, whether incandescent, fluorescent, CFL, LED, Halogen, etc.... ALL use only/around 40 watts of electricity but their light output can vary dramatically. This is why fluorescent bulbs are so much more efficient than incandescent bulbs and CFL's are even more efficient... as a 40W fluorescent bulb puts out a LOT more light (lumens) than a 40 watt incandescent bulb and a 40W CFL puts out more light (lumens) than a 40W fluorescent bulb. This is why the OLD "Watts Per Gallon" rule simply does not work any more. BUT.. if three different companies are selling standard T-10 fluorescent bulbs with the same exact rating of 40W, 3550 lumens and 6500K rating... all three of those bulbs should be VERY SIMILAR if not identical in the way they appear to our eyes (subject to our own degree of color blindness, of course!) In the past, things like "soft white", "warm white", "daylight", "plant grow", etc., type terms were used and are still used but those are just simple words (not subject to a scientific scale) to describe the Kelvin rating ranges but lumens are just as important since a bulb could have a 6500K rating with only 2200 lumens where another bulb could have a 6500K rating and 3550 or 3700 lumens and that bulb would put out over 50% more light (lumens) in the same color spectrum (Kelvin rating) so it would be a much more cost effective bulb if it cost the same amount or only a little more. I'm slightly confused about the "red and blue light for your plants" as those two colors are on opposite ends of the Kelvin Scale with reds and ambers in the lower numbers and greens and blues in the higher numbers. I think this is why you would want a mid-range (5000K to 6500K) bulb as those are generally considered "full spectrum" or "daylight" bulbs. Here's a color picture of the Kelvin Scale, http://www.bltdirect.com/images/colour-temperature.jpg and you can visually see that the 5000K to 6500K range is all about the same "color". I think this is also why Actinic bulbs are usually higher and closer to the 10000K range and up... apparently, the Kelvin lighting scale can go up to 20,000K (according to this article about Reef Tanks http://nh.craigslist.org/for/1423072406.html on, of all places, Craigslist). Here is the page that that the above photo link came from and it has a chart that also explains things a little more also and talks about the CRI, yet another lighting term (Color Rendition Index). http://www.bltdirect.com/lampColourTemperatures.php Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Amber Berglund Sent: Tuesday, November 10, 2009 4:22 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: wisteria/lighting previous question/response revisited Another thing to consider is one light company's 6500 kelvin rating may not be identical to another light bulb from a different company that's rated the same. The important thing to look at is the color chart they show on the boxes, you want more red and blue light for your plants, green is not useful or harmful as the plants reflect the light back (makes them appear more green but does nothing else for them). The kelvin rating is based on our eyes and how they perceive color, so each company doesn't have to be identical, perhaps some day they will have a universal way to measure light spectrums on bulbs that is much less confusing. Amber Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > > OK. So you have a total of 80 watts right now, which is just over 1 > WPG, which means you only have enough lighting for low-light, easy to > grow plants. See my blog article "Planted Tank: So You Want A Planted > Tank" for links to lists of low-light, easy to grow plants that will > do OK in your tank. You should replace those tubes at least yearly... > although some say every six months. As far as I know, a 40W bulb is > the highest wattage made for this type of bulb/fixture right now but > you can increase your lighting > (lumens) and K (Kelvin) rating. See below. > > NOTE - below links are for example/informational purposes only, as I > know nothing about the sites. God... did I just say that? Do I really > have to add disclaimers to my posts now? LOL Just laughing at myself. > LOL > > This may be your Sylvania bulb... > http://www.lightbulbemporium.com/proddetail.asp?prod=F40/EX50 > <http://www.lightbulbemporium.com/proddetail.asp?prod=F40/EX50> and if > it is, then it's the same ratings as the specs in the T-10 bulb that I > copy/pasted below, which is a pretty good bulb with higher lumens and > the higher K rating, although not a 6500K rated bulb. At the bottom of > this page, there was a link to this bulb... > http://www.lightbulbemporium.com/maxlite_51204_ml_f40t10_850_rscg.asp > <http://www.lightbulbemporium.com/maxlite_51204_ml_f40t10_850_rscg.asp > > > which > has an even higher lumen rating of 3700, although not much higher than > the 3550 rating but every little bit helps especially since the > MaxLite bulb was a lower price than the Sylvania bulb. > > As you will see on this page > http://www.lightbulbsdirect.com/Merchant2/merchant.mvc?page=001/CTGY/F > S+Fluo > <http://www.lightbulbsdirect.com/Merchant2/merchant.mvc?page=001/CTGY/ > FS+Fluo> > rescent > > The second bulb down would be similar to yours, except we do not know > the lumen or color spectrum rating on your bulb, unless that link I > gave above is actually your bulb and then it would be the same as this > one. The specs on it are: > > T-10 Fluorescent > 40 Watts > Length: 48" > Medium Bi-Pin Base > Color: 5000K Temperature > Initial Lumens: 3550 > CRI: 84 > Average Life: 20,000 Hours > > The Color spectrum of 5000K (Kelvin) is OK but 6500K would be much better. > The Lumens of 3550 is the actual amount of *light* > > The next bulb down from that one is a T-12, which will also fit in > your fixture but they are bigger diameter bulbs and this one actually > puts out less light (lumens). Here are the specs: > > T-12 Fluorescent > 40 Watts > Length: 48" > Base: Medium Bi-Pin Base > Initial Lumens: 2200 > Average Life: 20,000 Hours > Color Temperature: 5000K > CRI: 92 > > It has the same Color spectrum but only 2200 lumens so the above T-10 > bulb has around 50% more lumens (light) coming out of it. > > Now, if you scroll down to the second from the bottom on the page, > you'll see the Verilux Instant-Sun T-12 bulb which has a higher Kelvin > rating but it doesn't list the lumens so this needs to be checked out > further. While the higher K rating is good, if it goes back down to > only 2200 lumens, instead of the 3550 lumens of the first referenced > bulb above, then I would probably go with the 3550 lumens, 5000K bulb > over the 6280K bulb if the lumens were a LOT less. > > (START SNIP) > Engineered to reproduce all the colors and balance of natural light, > VeriluxR full spectrum fluorescent tubes feature Trucolite Phosphor > TechnologyT which includes the use of a stable, custom blend of earth > phosphors that create bright, balanced full spectrum light. > T-12 Fluorescent > 40 Watts > Length: 48" > Color Temperature: 6280K > CRI: 94 > Medium Bi-Pin Base > (END SNIP) > > So, as you can see, there's a few things to look for when shopping for > new replacement bulbs. Look for the 5000K to 6500K bulbs with the > higher lumen rating for the dollar and you should be good. Note that a > 3550 or 3700 lumen bulb will put out nearly twice as much light as a > 2000 lumen bulb so it can be easy to increase your lighting without > increasing the wattage. DO NOT try to use HO or VHO bulbs... which > look similar but have much higher wattage, well over the 40W bulbs you > now have. These other HO and VHO bulbs have different pin arrangements > so they will not fit in your fixture anyhow but I just wanted to save > you a trip. > > Last but not least, if you're handy, you could even take the bulbs out > of your fixtures and line the insides of your fixtures with nice and > crisp and flat aluminum foil (shiny side exposed) which will also > help. Using double stick tape and then carefully applying the foil so > it does not wrinkle too much will work well... especially if the > inside of your fixture is black. A white reflector is good but a > mirrored reflector, like that created by the shiny side of foil, is > MUCH better than a black reflector. Most black fixtures do at least > have white reflector areas. > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> (Links to any articles referenced in > above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels > and also under Archives by Year, Month) > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On Behalf Of erikaandnewton > Sent: Tuesday, November 10, 2009 10:17 AM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: wisteria/lighting previous > question/response revisited > > << When you say "two strips" do you have two 4' long two-bulb fixtures > already or something else?>> > > i have two 4' single bulb strip lights. > > >> What kind of lighting do you currently have? Look at the bulbs and > >> there should be some kind of writing on one of the ends. Give us > >> that info if you cannot decipher it yourself.<< > > one bulb is a f40 t10 > the other one is a sylvania daylight bulb also f40 > > >> It's probably 21" tall, since a common measurement for a 75G is > >> 48"x18"x21" Tall.>> > > it is 21 inches tall > > erika wilmington de usa

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 44371	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 11/10/2009
Subject: Re: More on Vacuums

Lucky for you, Santa hits the UK, on Christmas Eve, before crossing the pond to America, so he can pick them up on his way here.... meaning less work for the elves. I hope you caught that part about not seeing them on any U.S./Canada websites, only on UK websites. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of kuradi8 Sent: Tuesday, November 10, 2009 4:42 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: More on Vacuums I can't [Brooklyn grammar] believe you found them! =8oO =8oD Yes, I vaguely remember they came in several sizes. I got mine 10-15 years ago, probably from Petland Discounts (Long Island, NY) -- but they were also available in pet departments of discounters like TSS (a chain that has been out of business for close to 20 years.) THANK YOU for finding them! I'm going to put a new one on my Santa List, complete with a pointer to where Santa can find one for me. They're far superior to the ones that are easily available. ~Kai --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@...> wrote: > > I spoke too soon in my previous reply. A couple of more pages of > Google Image scanning found this... > > > http://www.fish-fish-fish.com/?cat=Cleaning_Tools__Nets___Thermometers > > Scroll down to near the bottom to the Tetra-Tec HydroClean gravel > vacuums and the pictures on the GC-40 and GC-50 boxes look like yours. > This is a UK site so the prices are in Pounds but at least this looks > like yours. They have three models/sizes. I haven't seen these in > any of the only sites in the U.S. > > I did a Google of Tetra-Tec HydroClean and ALL of the top hits had .UK > website addresses. Planning a trip to the UK any time soon? ;-) > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles > referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically > under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) > > > > > -----Original Message----- > Kai wrote: > > I've uploaded a couple of pictures of my tank vacuum at > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife/photos/album/1062797703/pic/ > list and once they're approved, can anyone tell me where to get > another vacuum like that? It's still OK but getting old and I haven't > seen another like it in 10+ years. I sure would hate to accidentally > break it! > > What I like about it is that it's self-priming by pumping it up and > down in the water, the siphon flow is adjustable, it has a good gravel > grate and it unscrews into two pieces for easy cleaning and storage. > > Obviously, the siphon hose is not pictured. :o) ~Kai > ------------------------------------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the home page. Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com to receive the digest, which includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com for the No E-Mail option where you will still be able to read messages on the group and post replies. Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com to receive individual e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 44372	From: kuradi8	Date: 11/10/2009
Subject: Re: More on Vacuums

I'm sending Santa to ebay.uk: http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=350111113554 with instructions to try to negotiate cheaper shipping from the seller. ~Kai --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@...> wrote: > > Lucky for you, Santa hits the UK, on Christmas Eve, before crossing the pond > to America, so he can pick them up on his way here.... meaning less work for > the elves. I hope you caught that part about not seeing them on any > U.S./Canada websites, only on UK websites. > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right > side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) > > > -----Original Message----- > Kai wrote: > > I can't [Brooklyn grammar] believe you found them! =8oO =8oD > > Yes, I vaguely remember they came in several sizes. I got mine 10-15 years > ago, probably from Petland Discounts (Long Island, NY) -- but they were also > available in pet departments of discounters like TSS (a chain that has been > out of business for close to 20 years.) > > THANK YOU for finding them! I'm going to put a new one on my Santa List, > complete with a pointer to where Santa can find one for me. > > They're far superior to the ones that are easily available. > ~Kai > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@> > wrote: > > > > I spoke too soon in my previous reply. A couple of more pages of > > Google Image scanning found this... > > > > > > http://www.fish-fish-fish.com/?cat=Cleaning_Tools__Nets___Thermometers > > > > Scroll down to near the bottom to the Tetra-Tec HydroClean gravel > > vacuums and the pictures on the GC-40 and GC-50 boxes look like yours. > > This is a UK site so the prices are in Pounds but at least this looks > > like yours. They have three models/sizes. I haven't seen these in > > any of the only sites in the U.S. > > > > I did a Google of Tetra-Tec HydroClean and ALL of the top hits had .UK > > website addresses. Planning a trip to the UK any time soon? ;-) > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles > > referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically > > under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) > > > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > Kai wrote: > > > > I've uploaded a couple of pictures of my tank vacuum at > > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife/photos/album/1062797703/pic/ > > list and once they're approved, can anyone tell me where to get > > another vacuum like that? It's still OK but getting old and I haven't > > seen another like it in 10+ years. I sure would hate to accidentally > > break it! > > > > What I like about it is that it's self-priming by pumping it up and > > down in the water, the siphon flow is adjustable, it has a good gravel > > grate and it unscrews into two pieces for easy cleaning and storage. > > > > Obviously, the siphon hose is not pictured. :o) ~Kai > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 44373	From: Donna Ransome	Date: 11/10/2009
Subject: Re: Question about eating snails

I've heard that on other forums as well. -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Amber Berglund Sent: Tuesday, November 10, 2009 5:37 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Question about eating snails Oh and here is the link for the info on eating them. http://www.applesnail.net/ click on "FAQ" then under the questions list (4th from the bottom) there is a question about eating apple snails, click on that and it takes you to all the info on their nutritional value and how to prepare them (cook them) and different recipe's. You'd think someone would have pointed out that dechlor isn't safe to consume, perhaps there are other factors that we don't know about? Amber Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > > But... that's hopefully for snails kept in water that DOES NOT use a > dechlor > product like well water, etc. The chemicals in dechlor products are > NOT FOR > HUMAN CONSUMPTION. I'm not sure if they are carcinogenic or not but I know > they have the warnings on the bottles to NOT use them on food fish. I > guess > one would have to eat a lot of fish from dechlored water before it would > cause problems but who knows. > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right > side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) > > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On > Behalf Of Amber Berglund > Sent: Tuesday, November 10, 2009 4:17 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Question about eating snails > > Actually if you look on applesnail.net they list recipe's for eating your > snails, LOL. > And do dead snails even have guts? LOL. > There are 3 drivers (for now, soon to be 4 hopefully), so they'll have to > narrow it down by names, so I'll have to wear a name tag that says, "Hello > my name is Fred" or something, LOL. > > Amber > > Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > > > > Ummmm.. you (or rather your friend) shouldn't do this. Most dechlor > > products EXPLICITLY advise against eating ornamental fish (and > > probably critters too) that are kept in waters treated with a dechlor > > product. I think the chemicals used in dechlors cause health problems, > > although I doubt that five snails would matter. I think it's more for > > fish farms that might think about using Sodium Thiosulphate as their > > dechlor if they did not have a natural water source for the fish stock > > ponds. > > > > As far as the different taste, could it be like other meats... chicken > > for example, where the dark meat is much different in taste and > > texture than white meat? > > > > Also, for your health, please do not post this on the Applesnail.net > > forums.. you know them folks are zealous about their snails. They > > might hunt you down and throw dead snail guts on you. LOL They might > > even form a new radical group called PeTS... People for the Ethical > > Treatment of Snails. > > LOL And if they can't find you, they might go after every other > > delivery truck on your island. BTW... are you the only driver or is > > Ketchikan big enough for two FedEx trucks? LOL > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>> > (Links to any articles referenced in > > above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels > > and also under Archives by Year, Month) > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On Behalf Of Amber Berglund > > Sent: Tuesday, November 10, 2009 10:59 AM > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > Subject: [AquaticLife] Question about eating snails > > > > Okay so a friend of mine was inquiring about my mystery snails for > > eating purposes. Since I have a mass quantity of the happy little guys > > and gals I figured I would give him all my large snails that are fully > > grown. He ended up with 5 and cooked them up as spaghetti. Now my > > question is this; why would the dark footed (purple) mystery snails > > taste much saltier than the ones with white feet? > > > > Sorry to offend anyone at the idea of eating snails, I've had to do a > > survival trip in my lifetime and had to survive off of limpets, so I'm > > sure they taste similar to limpets when cooked up, so it doesn't > > really offend me, LOL. > > Not to mention the little guys are threatening to breed me out of > > house and home ;) LOL. > > > > Amber > > ------------------------------------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the home page. Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com to receive the digest, which includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com for the No E-Mail option where you will still be able to read messages on the group and post replies. Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com to receive individual e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 44374	From: Donna Ransome	Date: 11/10/2009
Subject: Wow! Aquarium Accident

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/33831758/ns/us_news-weird_news/?GT1=43001 [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 44375	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 11/10/2009
Subject: Re: Question about eating snails

Here's the MSDS for API's Tap Water Conditioner (simple dechlor and heavy metal treatment). http://www.aquariumpharm.com/cms/Files/MSDS/TapWaterConditioner_2449.pdf (PDF document) You'll see in bold red letters near the top, it states that it is a "Hazardous Substance" but then if you read through the multiple pages, it doesn't look too bad... it may be the EDTA (the heavy metal chelating chemical) that is more dangerous, especially as noted further down in the MSDS. I'm nearly 100% positive that bottles of dechlor used to say "Not For Food Fish" but I'm looking at my two current bottles, API and Top Fin and neither say anything about Food Fish so maybe they've changed the rules, however... Here's a snip about ChlorAm-X (pond dechlor product), which is ONLY a dechlor and does not treat heavy metals and it expressly states that it is safe for food fish and shellfish intended for human consumption so this strengthens my leanings that it's the EDTA and other stuff that is dangerous... "ClorAm-XR is a highly concentrated powder that completely neutralizes ammonia, chlorine and chloramines from fresh and salt water. It is nontoxic to fish and invertebrates. Safe for use on food fish and shellfish intended for human consumption. Dosage rate: 1 oz ClorAm-XR per 235 gallons of water removes 1 mg/l of total ammonia. A 5-lb box treats 18,749 gallons. Note: Water treated with ClorAm-XR cannot be accurately tested using Nessler's-type ammonia tests or Winkler-type D.O. kits." So, it may just be the EDTA and other stuff in some dechlor products that make it unsafe for human consumption. In either case, they should at least be alerted to this potential problem. What was your name again, when you post about eating snails on the Applesnail.net forums? Oh yeah, Fred! Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Amber Berglund Sent: Tuesday, November 10, 2009 4:47 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Question about eating snails Okay to find out what the moderator's think about dechlor and eating snails I posted on applesnail.net's online forum, hopefully they can actually answer my question ;) LOL. They're usually very knowledgeable about snails though, so we shall see what their thoughts are on this. Let's hope I don't get flamed or hunted down and shot now ;) LOL Amber Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > > Ummmm.. you (or rather your friend) shouldn't do this. Most dechlor > products EXPLICITLY advise against eating ornamental fish (and > probably critters too) that are kept in waters treated with a dechlor > product. I think the chemicals used in dechlors cause health problems, > although I doubt that five snails would matter. I think it's more for > fish farms that might think about using Sodium Thiosulphate as their > dechlor if they did not have a natural water source for the fish stock > ponds. > > As far as the different taste, could it be like other meats... chicken > for example, where the dark meat is much different in taste and > texture than white meat? > > Also, for your health, please do not post this on the Applesnail.net > forums.. you know them folks are zealous about their snails. They > might hunt you down and throw dead snail guts on you. LOL They might > even form a new radical group called PeTS... People for the Ethical > Treatment of Snails. > LOL And if they can't find you, they might go after every other > delivery truck on your island. BTW... are you the only driver or is > Ketchikan big enough for two FedEx trucks? LOL > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> (Links to any articles referenced in > above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels > and also under Archives by Year, Month) > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On Behalf Of Amber Berglund > Sent: Tuesday, November 10, 2009 10:59 AM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Subject: [AquaticLife] Question about eating snails > > Okay so a friend of mine was inquiring about my mystery snails for > eating purposes. Since I have a mass quantity of the happy little guys > and gals I figured I would give him all my large snails that are fully > grown. He ended up with 5 and cooked them up as spaghetti. Now my > question is this; why would the dark footed (purple) mystery snails > taste much saltier than the ones with white feet? > > Sorry to offend anyone at the idea of eating snails, I've had to do a > survival trip in my lifetime and had to survive off of limpets, so I'm > sure they taste similar to limpets when cooked up, so it doesn't > really offend me, LOL. > Not to mention the little guys are threatening to breed me out of > house and home ;) LOL. > > Amber

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 44376	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 11/10/2009
Subject: Re: Question about eating snails

Ws this the recipe? ESCARGOTS A LA FETTUCCINI 24 (7 1/2 oz. can) very lg. sized escargots, drained 4 tbsp. butter 1-2 garlic cloves, minced 1/2 pt. heavy cream 1/2 c. grated Parmesan cheese 1 pkg. frozen peas Salt and pepper 1 lb. fettuccini Drain escargots, melt butter in heavy saucepan and sauté escargot and garlic for 3 minutes. Pour in heavy cream and simmer until mixture thickens slightly. Add grated cheese, peas and seasonings. Cook a few minutes longer until escargots and sauce are hot. Do not overcook. While sauce is cooking place fettuccini in a pot of boiling (salted) water. Cook 3-4 minutes. Drain pasta and mix with escargots sauce until pasta is well coated. I once had a shirt named Fred. \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Amber Berglund Sent: Tuesday, November 10, 2009 5:17 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Question about eating snails Actually if you look on applesnail.net they list recipe's for eating your snails, LOL. And do dead snails even have guts? LOL. There are 3 drivers (for now, soon to be 4 hopefully), so they'll have to narrow it down by names, so I'll have to wear a name tag that says, "Hello my name is Fred" or something, LOL. Amber Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > > Ummmm.. you (or rather your friend) shouldn't do this. Most dechlor > products EXPLICITLY advise against eating ornamental fish (and probably > critters too) that are kept in waters treated with a dechlor product. I > think the chemicals used in dechlors cause health problems, although I > doubt > that five snails would matter. I think it's more for fish farms that might > think about using Sodium Thiosulphate as their dechlor if they did not > have > a natural water source for the fish stock ponds. > > As far as the different taste, could it be like other meats... chicken for > example, where the dark meat is much different in taste and texture than > white meat? > > Also, for your health, please do not post this on the Applesnail.net > forums.. you know them folks are zealous about their snails. They might > hunt you down and throw dead snail guts on you. LOL They might even form a > new radical group called PeTS... People for the Ethical Treatment of > Snails. > LOL And if they can't find you, they might go after every other delivery > truck on your island. BTW... are you the only driver or is Ketchikan big > enough for two FedEx trucks? LOL > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right > side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On > Behalf Of Amber Berglund > Sent: Tuesday, November 10, 2009 10:59 AM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Subject: [AquaticLife] Question about eating snails > > Okay so a friend of mine was inquiring about my mystery snails for eating > purposes. Since I have a mass quantity of the happy little guys and gals I > figured I would give him all my large snails that are fully grown. He > ended > up with 5 and cooked them up as spaghetti. Now my question is this; why > would the dark footed (purple) mystery snails taste much saltier than the > ones with white feet? > > Sorry to offend anyone at the idea of eating snails, I've had to do a > survival trip in my lifetime and had to survive off of limpets, so I'm > sure > they taste similar to limpets when cooked up, so it doesn't really offend > me, LOL. > Not to mention the little guys are threatening to breed me out of > house and > home ;) LOL. > > Amber >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 44377	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 11/10/2009
Subject: Re: Wow! Aquarium Accident

I hope she has more than 10/20/10 insurance. :-O Poor fish... 90% died that day.... but even worse, poor taxpayers for the airport (a government agency) spending $200,000.00 on a stupid art project... a 1,500G tank that a private entity/person could have probably set up for a fraction of that cost. GlassCages.com sells 500G acrylic tanks for $2,200 so I'm sure a 1,500G would be in the $10,000.00 PLUS range, just for the tank, but still... $200.000.00????? Of course, building it outside, instead of inside, also means a LOT more money spent on temperature control but if it had been built inside, it would have cost a LOT less and it might also still be around today... and it would have saved hundreds of thousands of tax-payer dollars over the past 10 years. Here's the original story on TampaBay.com, with more info and a picture. http://www.tampabay.com/news/publicsafety/accidents/woman-with-boy-in-lap-pl ows-truck-into-tia-wall-destroying-aquarium/1050673 Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Donna Ransome Sent: Tuesday, November 10, 2009 6:42 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Wow! Aquarium Accident http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/33831758/ns/us_news-weird_news/?GT1=43001

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 44378	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 11/10/2009
Subject: Re: Question about eating snails

I use stress coat from API, not sure about their ingredients, will go check the bottle. Amber (AKA Fred ;) LOL Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > > Here's the MSDS for API's Tap Water Conditioner (simple dechlor and heavy > metal treatment). > http://www.aquariumpharm.com/cms/Files/MSDS/TapWaterConditioner_2449.pdf > <http://www.aquariumpharm.com/cms/Files/MSDS/TapWaterConditioner_2449.pdf> > (PDF document) > > You'll see in bold red letters near the top, it states that it is a > "Hazardous Substance" but then if you read through the multiple pages, it > doesn't look too bad... it may be the EDTA (the heavy metal chelating > chemical) that is more dangerous, especially as noted further down in the > MSDS. > > I'm nearly 100% positive that bottles of dechlor used to say "Not For Food > Fish" but I'm looking at my two current bottles, API and Top Fin and > neither > say anything about Food Fish so maybe they've changed the rules, > however... > > Here's a snip about ChlorAm-X (pond dechlor product), which is ONLY a > dechlor and does not treat heavy metals and it expressly states that it is > safe for food fish and shellfish intended for human consumption so this > strengthens my leanings that it's the EDTA and other stuff that is > dangerous... > > "ClorAm-XR is a highly concentrated powder that completely neutralizes > ammonia, chlorine and chloramines from fresh and salt water. It is > nontoxic > to fish and invertebrates. Safe for use on food fish and shellfish > intended > for human consumption. Dosage rate: 1 oz ClorAm-XR per 235 gallons of > water > removes 1 mg/l of total ammonia. A 5-lb box treats 18,749 gallons. Note: > Water treated with ClorAm-XR cannot be accurately tested using > Nessler's-type ammonia tests or Winkler-type D.O. kits." > > So, it may just be the EDTA and other stuff in some dechlor products that > make it unsafe for human consumption. > > In either case, they should at least be alerted to this potential problem. > What was your name again, when you post about eating snails on the > Applesnail.net forums? Oh yeah, Fred! > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right > side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On > Behalf Of Amber Berglund > Sent: Tuesday, November 10, 2009 4:47 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Question about eating snails > > Okay to find out what the moderator's think about dechlor and eating > snails > I posted on applesnail.net's online forum, hopefully they can actually > answer my question ;) LOL. > They're usually very knowledgeable about snails though, so we shall > see what > their thoughts are on this. > Let's hope I don't get flamed or hunted down and shot now ;) LOL > > Amber > > Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > > > > Ummmm.. you (or rather your friend) shouldn't do this. Most dechlor > > products EXPLICITLY advise against eating ornamental fish (and > > probably critters too) that are kept in waters treated with a dechlor > > product. I think the chemicals used in dechlors cause health problems, > > although I doubt that five snails would matter. I think it's more for > > fish farms that might think about using Sodium Thiosulphate as their > > dechlor if they did not have a natural water source for the fish stock > > ponds. > > > > As far as the different taste, could it be like other meats... chicken > > for example, where the dark meat is much different in taste and > > texture than white meat? > > > > Also, for your health, please do not post this on the Applesnail.net > > forums.. you know them folks are zealous about their snails. They > > might hunt you down and throw dead snail guts on you. LOL They might > > even form a new radical group called PeTS... People for the Ethical > > Treatment of Snails. > > LOL And if they can't find you, they might go after every other > > delivery truck on your island. BTW... are you the only driver or is > > Ketchikan big enough for two FedEx trucks? LOL > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>> > (Links to any articles referenced in > > above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels > > and also under Archives by Year, Month) > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On Behalf Of Amber Berglund > > Sent: Tuesday, November 10, 2009 10:59 AM > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > Subject: [AquaticLife] Question about eating snails > > > > Okay so a friend of mine was inquiring about my mystery snails for > > eating purposes. Since I have a mass quantity of the happy little guys > > and gals I figured I would give him all my large snails that are fully > > grown. He ended up with 5 and cooked them up as spaghetti. Now my > > question is this; why would the dark footed (purple) mystery snails > > taste much saltier than the ones with white feet? > > > > Sorry to offend anyone at the idea of eating snails, I've had to do a > > survival trip in my lifetime and had to survive off of limpets, so I'm > > sure they taste similar to limpets when cooked up, so it doesn't > > really offend me, LOL. > > Not to mention the little guys are threatening to breed me out of > > house and home ;) LOL. > > > > Amber > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 44379	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 11/10/2009
Subject: Re: Question about eating snails

Actually no, but that one looks good ;) LOL Wait... you name your shirts? What's your favorite shirt named right now? LOL Amber Steve Szabo wrote: > > Ws this the recipe? > > ESCARGOTS A LA FETTUCCINI > > 24 (7 1/2 oz. can) very lg. sized escargots, drained > 4 tbsp. butter > 1-2 garlic cloves, minced > 1/2 pt. heavy cream > 1/2 c. grated Parmesan cheese > 1 pkg. frozen peas > Salt and pepper > 1 lb. fettuccini > > Drain escargots, melt butter in heavy saucepan and sauté escargot and > garlic > for 3 minutes. Pour in heavy cream and simmer until mixture thickens > slightly. Add grated cheese, peas and seasonings. Cook a few minutes > longer > until escargots and sauce are hot. Do not overcook. > > While sauce is cooking place fettuccini in a pot of boiling (salted) > water. > Cook 3-4 minutes. Drain pasta and mix with escargots sauce until pasta is > well coated. > > I once had a shirt named Fred. > > \\Steve// > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On > Behalf Of Amber Berglund > Sent: Tuesday, November 10, 2009 5:17 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Question about eating snails > > Actually if you look on applesnail.net they list recipe's for eating > your snails, LOL. > And do dead snails even have guts? LOL. > There are 3 drivers (for now, soon to be 4 hopefully), so they'll have > to narrow it down by names, so I'll have to wear a name tag that says, > "Hello my name is Fred" or something, LOL. > > Amber > > Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > > > > Ummmm.. you (or rather your friend) shouldn't do this. Most dechlor > > products EXPLICITLY advise against eating ornamental fish (and probably > > critters too) that are kept in waters treated with a dechlor product. I > > think the chemicals used in dechlors cause health problems, although I > > doubt > > that five snails would matter. I think it's more for fish farms that > might > > think about using Sodium Thiosulphate as their dechlor if they did not > > have > > a natural water source for the fish stock ponds. > > > > As far as the different taste, could it be like other meats... > chicken for > > example, where the dark meat is much different in taste and texture than > > white meat? > > > > Also, for your health, please do not post this on the Applesnail.net > > forums.. you know them folks are zealous about their snails. They might > > hunt you down and throw dead snail guts on you. LOL They might even > form a > > new radical group called PeTS... People for the Ethical Treatment of > > Snails. > > LOL And if they can't find you, they might go after every other delivery > > truck on your island. BTW... are you the only driver or is Ketchikan big > > enough for two FedEx trucks? LOL > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>> > > (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right > > side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, > Month) > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On > > Behalf Of Amber Berglund > > Sent: Tuesday, November 10, 2009 10:59 AM > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > Subject: [AquaticLife] Question about eating snails > > > > Okay so a friend of mine was inquiring about my mystery snails for > eating > > purposes. Since I have a mass quantity of the happy little guys and > gals I > > figured I would give him all my large snails that are fully grown. He > > ended > > up with 5 and cooked them up as spaghetti. Now my question is this; why > > would the dark footed (purple) mystery snails taste much saltier > than the > > ones with white feet? > > > > Sorry to offend anyone at the idea of eating snails, I've had to do a > > survival trip in my lifetime and had to survive off of limpets, so I'm > > sure > > they taste similar to limpets when cooked up, so it doesn't really > offend > > me, LOL. > > Not to mention the little guys are threatening to breed me out of > > house and > > home ;) LOL. > > > > Amber > > > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 44380	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 11/10/2009
Subject: Re: wisteria/lighting previous question/response revisited

I believe it was Steve who posted a link about lumens months back when (I think it was maybe Bill asking) about lighting for planted aquariums. Plants require 2 different spectrums of light to properly produce either leaves or flowers (red is more for flower production and blue is more for growth, but for the best growing you want a mixture of BOTH colors). So in reality you would want a light that appears more brown/reddish in coloring and a blue/white coloring as well, but they now have bulbs that have BOTH spectrums built in (I'm sure they don't work as well as it would to have 2 different bulbs one mostly red and the other mostly blue on the color spectrum). Let me see if I still have the link bookmarked. What I was trying to say is that Kelvin does not tell you what color spectrum the light REALLY is, it's actually measuring it's light output color according to how the human eyes perceive it. So 6500 kelvin in general is what most plants will prefer because that is a mixture of both red and blue spectrums (In MOST bulbs) unfortunately not all light bulb manufactures have to use the exact same chart for their colors, so they will have different colors than another bulb that says it's 6500 Kelvin. what you really need to read is the color chart on the box, not what lumens it says it is. (still searching for link, LOL). This isn't the right link but it discusses the kelvin/lumen problems a little bit, still looking for the link that showed the charts and what to look for in the color charts. http://www.americanaquariumproducts.com/Aquarium_Lighting.html Will post again when I find the other link with chart examples. Amber Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > > I think it would be false advertising or possibly mis-advertising (if they > do not know any better) if a company lists their bulbs as 6500K and they > aren't. The Kelvin scale, just like Watts and Lumens, are ALL > universal and > scientifically measurable scales BUT, as I showed below, not all 40 watt > bulbs put out the same amount of light (lumens) or in the same color > spectrum (Kelvin rating). All 40 watt bulbs, whether incandescent, > fluorescent, CFL, LED, Halogen, etc.... ALL use only/around 40 watts of > electricity but their light output can vary dramatically. This is why > fluorescent bulbs are so much more efficient than incandescent bulbs and > CFL's are even more efficient... as a 40W fluorescent bulb puts out a LOT > more light (lumens) than a 40 watt incandescent bulb and a 40W CFL > puts out > more light (lumens) than a 40W fluorescent bulb. This is why the OLD > "Watts > Per Gallon" rule simply does not work any more. > > BUT.. if three different companies are selling standard T-10 fluorescent > bulbs with the same exact rating of 40W, 3550 lumens and 6500K > rating... all > three of those bulbs should be VERY SIMILAR if not identical in the > way they > appear to our eyes (subject to our own degree of color blindness, of > course!) > > In the past, things like "soft white", "warm white", "daylight", "plant > grow", etc., type terms were used and are still used but those are just > simple words (not subject to a scientific scale) to describe the Kelvin > rating ranges but lumens are just as important since a bulb could have a > 6500K rating with only 2200 lumens where another bulb could have a 6500K > rating and 3550 or 3700 lumens and that bulb would put out over 50% more > light (lumens) in the same color spectrum (Kelvin rating) so it would be a > much more cost effective bulb if it cost the same amount or only a little > more. > > I'm slightly confused about the "red and blue light for your plants" as > those two colors are on opposite ends of the Kelvin Scale with reds and > ambers in the lower numbers and greens and blues in the higher numbers. I > think this is why you would want a mid-range (5000K to 6500K) bulb as > those > are generally considered "full spectrum" or "daylight" bulbs. Here's a > color picture of the Kelvin Scale, > http://www.bltdirect.com/images/colour-temperature.jpg > <http://www.bltdirect.com/images/colour-temperature.jpg> and you can > visually > see that the 5000K to 6500K range is all about the same "color". I think > this is also why Actinic bulbs are usually higher and closer to the 10000K > range and up... apparently, the Kelvin lighting scale can go up to 20,000K > (according to this article about Reef Tanks > http://nh.craigslist.org/for/1423072406.html > <http://nh.craigslist.org/for/1423072406.html> on, of all places, > Craigslist). > Here is the page that that the above photo link came from and it has a > chart > that also explains things a little more also and talks about the CRI, yet > another lighting term (Color Rendition Index). > http://www.bltdirect.com/lampColourTemperatures.php > <http://www.bltdirect.com/lampColourTemperatures.php> > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right > side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On > Behalf Of Amber Berglund > Sent: Tuesday, November 10, 2009 4:22 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: wisteria/lighting previous > question/response > revisited > > Another thing to consider is one light company's 6500 kelvin rating > may not > be identical to another light bulb from a different company that's > rated the > same. The important thing to look at is the color chart they show on the > boxes, you want more red and blue light for your plants, green is not > useful > or harmful as the plants reflect the light back (makes them appear more > green but does nothing else for them). The kelvin rating is based on our > eyes and how they perceive color, so each company doesn't have to be > identical, perhaps some day they will have a universal way to measure > light > spectrums on bulbs that is much less confusing. > > Amber > > Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > > > > OK. So you have a total of 80 watts right now, which is just over 1 > > WPG, which means you only have enough lighting for low-light, easy to > > grow plants. See my blog article "Planted Tank: So You Want A Planted > > Tank" for links to lists of low-light, easy to grow plants that will > > do OK in your tank. You should replace those tubes at least yearly... > > although some say every six months. As far as I know, a 40W bulb is > > the highest wattage made for this type of bulb/fixture right now but > > you can increase your lighting > > (lumens) and K (Kelvin) rating. See below. > > > > NOTE - below links are for example/informational purposes only, as I > > know nothing about the sites. God... did I just say that? Do I really > > have to add disclaimers to my posts now? LOL Just laughing at myself. > > LOL > > > > This may be your Sylvania bulb... > > http://www.lightbulbemporium.com/proddetail.asp?prod=F40/EX50 > <http://www.lightbulbemporium.com/proddetail.asp?prod=F40/EX50> > > <http://www.lightbulbemporium.com/proddetail.asp?prod=F40/EX50 > <http://www.lightbulbemporium.com/proddetail.asp?prod=F40/EX50>> and if > > it is, then it's the same ratings as the specs in the T-10 bulb that I > > copy/pasted below, which is a pretty good bulb with higher lumens and > > the higher K rating, although not a 6500K rated bulb. At the bottom of > > this page, there was a link to this bulb... > > > http://www.lightbulbemporium.com/maxlite_51204_ml_f40t10_850_rscg.asp > <http://www.lightbulbemporium.com/maxlite_51204_ml_f40t10_850_rscg.asp> > > > <http://www.lightbulbemporium.com/maxlite_51204_ml_f40t10_850_rscg.asp > <http://www.lightbulbemporium.com/maxlite_51204_ml_f40t10_850_rscg.asp> > > > > > which > > has an even higher lumen rating of 3700, although not much higher than > > the 3550 rating but every little bit helps especially since the > > MaxLite bulb was a lower price than the Sylvania bulb. > > > > As you will see on this page > > > http://www.lightbulbsdirect.com/Merchant2/merchant.mvc?page=001/CTGY/F > <http://www.lightbulbsdirect.com/Merchant2/merchant.mvc?page=001/CTGY/F> > > S+Fluo > > > <http://www.lightbulbsdirect.com/Merchant2/merchant.mvc?page=001/CTGY/ > <http://www.lightbulbsdirect.com/Merchant2/merchant.mvc?page=001/CTGY/> > > FS+Fluo> > > rescent > > > > The second bulb down would be similar to yours, except we do not know > > the lumen or color spectrum rating on your bulb, unless that link I > > gave above is actually your bulb and then it would be the same as this > > one. The specs on it are: > > > > T-10 Fluorescent > > 40 Watts > > Length: 48" > > Medium Bi-Pin Base > > Color: 5000K Temperature > > Initial Lumens: 3550 > > CRI: 84 > > Average Life: 20,000 Hours > > > > The Color spectrum of 5000K (Kelvin) is OK but 6500K would be much > better. > > The Lumens of 3550 is the actual amount of *light* > > > > The next bulb down from that one is a T-12, which will also fit in > > your fixture but they are bigger diameter bulbs and this one actually > > puts out less light (lumens). Here are the specs: > > > > T-12 Fluorescent > > 40 Watts > > Length: 48" > > Base: Medium Bi-Pin Base > > Initial Lumens: 2200 > > Average Life: 20,000 Hours > > Color Temperature: 5000K > > CRI: 92 > > > > It has the same Color spectrum but only 2200 lumens so the above T-10 > > bulb has around 50% more lumens (light) coming out of it. > > > > Now, if you scroll down to the second from the bottom on the page, > > you'll see the Verilux Instant-Sun T-12 bulb which has a higher Kelvin > > rating but it doesn't list the lumens so this needs to be checked out > > further. While the higher K rating is good, if it goes back down to > > only 2200 lumens, instead of the 3550 lumens of the first referenced > > bulb above, then I would probably go with the 3550 lumens, 5000K bulb > > over the 6280K bulb if the lumens were a LOT less. > > > > (START SNIP) > > Engineered to reproduce all the colors and balance of natural light, > > VeriluxR full spectrum fluorescent tubes feature Trucolite Phosphor > > TechnologyT which includes the use of a stable, custom blend of earth > > phosphors that create bright, balanced full spectrum light. > > T-12 Fluorescent > > 40 Watts > > Length: 48" > > Color Temperature: 6280K > > CRI: 94 > > Medium Bi-Pin Base > > (END SNIP) > > > > So, as you can see, there's a few things to look for when shopping for > > new replacement bulbs. Look for the 5000K to 6500K bulbs with the > > higher lumen rating for the dollar and you should be good. Note that a > > 3550 or 3700 lumen bulb will put out nearly twice as much light as a > > 2000 lumen bulb so it can be easy to increase your lighting without > > increasing the wattage. DO NOT try to use HO or VHO bulbs... which > > look similar but have much higher wattage, well over the 40W bulbs you > > now have. These other HO and VHO bulbs have different pin arrangements > > so they will not fit in your fixture anyhow but I just wanted to save > > you a trip. > > > > Last but not least, if you're handy, you could even take the bulbs out > > of your fixtures and line the insides of your fixtures with nice and > > crisp and flat aluminum foil (shiny side exposed) which will also > > help. Using double stick tape and then carefully applying the foil so > > it does not wrinkle too much will work well... especially if the > > inside of your fixture is black. A white reflector is good but a > > mirrored reflector, like that created by the shiny side of foil, is > > MUCH better than a black reflector. Most black fixtures do at least > > have white reflector areas. > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>> > (Links to any articles referenced in > > above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels > > and also under Archives by Year, Month) > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On Behalf Of erikaandnewton > > Sent: Tuesday, November 10, 2009 10:17 AM > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: wisteria/lighting previous > > question/response revisited > > > > << When you say "two strips" do you have two 4' long two-bulb fixtures > > already or something else?>> > > > > i have two 4' single bulb strip lights. > > > > >> What kind of lighting do you currently have? Look at the bulbs and > > >> there should be some kind of writing on one of the ends. Give us > > >> that info if you cannot decipher it yourself.<< > > > > one bulb is a f40 t10 > > the other one is a sylvania daylight bulb also f40 > > > > >> It's probably 21" tall, since a common measurement for a 75G is > > >> 48"x18"x21" Tall.>> > > > > it is 21 inches tall > > > > erika wilmington de usa > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 44381	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 11/10/2009
Subject: Re: wisteria/lighting previous question/response revisited

Oh and the site I just posted a link to does hit on the topic of the photosynthetic light requirements of plants (needing mostly red and blue light), it's a very good site though, I think you (Lenny) showed it to me awhile back. Here is a snippet about the color spectrums from the site: "Botanists argue that blue light is the most important for leaf growth and that red light encourages flowering and general health, meaning you would need more ultraviolet for more plant growth. Generally lighting with a Kelvin output of 6400 K occupies region of peak PAR and are the most desirable for plant growth (which is Kelvin rating of the sun's light in the tropics at noon)" "With this in mind it should be noted that lamps with both red and blue spectrums will do well for plant growth in BOTH freshwater and saltwater, despite some claims that blue is only for saltwater aquariums (there is not a difference in chlorophyll production in freshwater from saltwater that I know of)." Amber Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > > I think it would be false advertising or possibly mis-advertising (if they > do not know any better) if a company lists their bulbs as 6500K and they > aren't. The Kelvin scale, just like Watts and Lumens, are ALL > universal and > scientifically measurable scales BUT, as I showed below, not all 40 watt > bulbs put out the same amount of light (lumens) or in the same color > spectrum (Kelvin rating). All 40 watt bulbs, whether incandescent, > fluorescent, CFL, LED, Halogen, etc.... ALL use only/around 40 watts of > electricity but their light output can vary dramatically. This is why > fluorescent bulbs are so much more efficient than incandescent bulbs and > CFL's are even more efficient... as a 40W fluorescent bulb puts out a LOT > more light (lumens) than a 40 watt incandescent bulb and a 40W CFL > puts out > more light (lumens) than a 40W fluorescent bulb. This is why the OLD > "Watts > Per Gallon" rule simply does not work any more. > > BUT.. if three different companies are selling standard T-10 fluorescent > bulbs with the same exact rating of 40W, 3550 lumens and 6500K > rating... all > three of those bulbs should be VERY SIMILAR if not identical in the > way they > appear to our eyes (subject to our own degree of color blindness, of > course!) > > In the past, things like "soft white", "warm white", "daylight", "plant > grow", etc., type terms were used and are still used but those are just > simple words (not subject to a scientific scale) to describe the Kelvin > rating ranges but lumens are just as important since a bulb could have a > 6500K rating with only 2200 lumens where another bulb could have a 6500K > rating and 3550 or 3700 lumens and that bulb would put out over 50% more > light (lumens) in the same color spectrum (Kelvin rating) so it would be a > much more cost effective bulb if it cost the same amount or only a little > more. > > I'm slightly confused about the "red and blue light for your plants" as > those two colors are on opposite ends of the Kelvin Scale with reds and > ambers in the lower numbers and greens and blues in the higher numbers. I > think this is why you would want a mid-range (5000K to 6500K) bulb as > those > are generally considered "full spectrum" or "daylight" bulbs. Here's a > color picture of the Kelvin Scale, > http://www.bltdirect.com/images/colour-temperature.jpg > <http://www.bltdirect.com/images/colour-temperature.jpg> and you can > visually > see that the 5000K to 6500K range is all about the same "color". I think > this is also why Actinic bulbs are usually higher and closer to the 10000K > range and up... apparently, the Kelvin lighting scale can go up to 20,000K > (according to this article about Reef Tanks > http://nh.craigslist.org/for/1423072406.html > <http://nh.craigslist.org/for/1423072406.html> on, of all places, > Craigslist). > Here is the page that that the above photo link came from and it has a > chart > that also explains things a little more also and talks about the CRI, yet > another lighting term (Color Rendition Index). > http://www.bltdirect.com/lampColourTemperatures.php > <http://www.bltdirect.com/lampColourTemperatures.php> > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right > side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On > Behalf Of Amber Berglund > Sent: Tuesday, November 10, 2009 4:22 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: wisteria/lighting previous > question/response > revisited > > Another thing to consider is one light company's 6500 kelvin rating > may not > be identical to another light bulb from a different company that's > rated the > same. The important thing to look at is the color chart they show on the > boxes, you want more red and blue light for your plants, green is not > useful > or harmful as the plants reflect the light back (makes them appear more > green but does nothing else for them). The kelvin rating is based on our > eyes and how they perceive color, so each company doesn't have to be > identical, perhaps some day they will have a universal way to measure > light > spectrums on bulbs that is much less confusing. > > Amber > > Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > > > > OK. So you have a total of 80 watts right now, which is just over 1 > > WPG, which means you only have enough lighting for low-light, easy to > > grow plants. See my blog article "Planted Tank: So You Want A Planted > > Tank" for links to lists of low-light, easy to grow plants that will > > do OK in your tank. You should replace those tubes at least yearly... > > although some say every six months. As far as I know, a 40W bulb is > > the highest wattage made for this type of bulb/fixture right now but > > you can increase your lighting > > (lumens) and K (Kelvin) rating. See below. > > > > NOTE - below links are for example/informational purposes only, as I > > know nothing about the sites. God... did I just say that? Do I really > > have to add disclaimers to my posts now? LOL Just laughing at myself. > > LOL > > > > This may be your Sylvania bulb... > > http://www.lightbulbemporium.com/proddetail.asp?prod=F40/EX50 > <http://www.lightbulbemporium.com/proddetail.asp?prod=F40/EX50> > > <http://www.lightbulbemporium.com/proddetail.asp?prod=F40/EX50 > <http://www.lightbulbemporium.com/proddetail.asp?prod=F40/EX50>> and if > > it is, then it's the same ratings as the specs in the T-10 bulb that I > > copy/pasted below, which is a pretty good bulb with higher lumens and > > the higher K rating, although not a 6500K rated bulb. At the bottom of > > this page, there was a link to this bulb... > > > http://www.lightbulbemporium.com/maxlite_51204_ml_f40t10_850_rscg.asp > <http://www.lightbulbemporium.com/maxlite_51204_ml_f40t10_850_rscg.asp> > > > <http://www.lightbulbemporium.com/maxlite_51204_ml_f40t10_850_rscg.asp > <http://www.lightbulbemporium.com/maxlite_51204_ml_f40t10_850_rscg.asp> > > > > > which > > has an even higher lumen rating of 3700, although not much higher than > > the 3550 rating but every little bit helps especially since the > > MaxLite bulb was a lower price than the Sylvania bulb. > > > > As you will see on this page > > > http://www.lightbulbsdirect.com/Merchant2/merchant.mvc?page=001/CTGY/F > <http://www.lightbulbsdirect.com/Merchant2/merchant.mvc?page=001/CTGY/F> > > S+Fluo > > > <http://www.lightbulbsdirect.com/Merchant2/merchant.mvc?page=001/CTGY/ > <http://www.lightbulbsdirect.com/Merchant2/merchant.mvc?page=001/CTGY/> > > FS+Fluo> > > rescent > > > > The second bulb down would be similar to yours, except we do not know > > the lumen or color spectrum rating on your bulb, unless that link I > > gave above is actually your bulb and then it would be the same as this > > one. The specs on it are: > > > > T-10 Fluorescent > > 40 Watts > > Length: 48" > > Medium Bi-Pin Base > > Color: 5000K Temperature > > Initial Lumens: 3550 > > CRI: 84 > > Average Life: 20,000 Hours > > > > The Color spectrum of 5000K (Kelvin) is OK but 6500K would be much > better. > > The Lumens of 3550 is the actual amount of *light* > > > > The next bulb down from that one is a T-12, which will also fit in > > your fixture but they are bigger diameter bulbs and this one actually > > puts out less light (lumens). Here are the specs: > > > > T-12 Fluorescent > > 40 Watts > > Length: 48" > > Base: Medium Bi-Pin Base > > Initial Lumens: 2200 > > Average Life: 20,000 Hours > > Color Temperature: 5000K > > CRI: 92 > > > > It has the same Color spectrum but only 2200 lumens so the above T-10 > > bulb has around 50% more lumens (light) coming out of it. > > > > Now, if you scroll down to the second from the bottom on the page, > > you'll see the Verilux Instant-Sun T-12 bulb which has a higher Kelvin > > rating but it doesn't list the lumens so this needs to be checked out > > further. While the higher K rating is good, if it goes back down to > > only 2200 lumens, instead of the 3550 lumens of the first referenced > > bulb above, then I would probably go with the 3550 lumens, 5000K bulb > > over the 6280K bulb if the lumens were a LOT less. > > > > (START SNIP) > > Engineered to reproduce all the colors and balance of natural light, > > VeriluxR full spectrum fluorescent tubes feature Trucolite Phosphor > > TechnologyT which includes the use of a stable, custom blend of earth > > phosphors that create bright, balanced full spectrum light. > > T-12 Fluorescent > > 40 Watts > > Length: 48" > > Color Temperature: 6280K > > CRI: 94 > > Medium Bi-Pin Base > > (END SNIP) > > > > So, as you can see, there's a few things to look for when shopping for > > new replacement bulbs. Look for the 5000K to 6500K bulbs with the > > higher lumen rating for the dollar and you should be good. Note that a > > 3550 or 3700 lumen bulb will put out nearly twice as much light as a > > 2000 lumen bulb so it can be easy to increase your lighting without > > increasing the wattage. DO NOT try to use HO or VHO bulbs... which > > look similar but have much higher wattage, well over the 40W bulbs you > > now have. These other HO and VHO bulbs have different pin arrangements > > so they will not fit in your fixture anyhow but I just wanted to save > > you a trip. > > > > Last but not least, if you're handy, you could even take the bulbs out > > of your fixtures and line the insides of your fixtures with nice and > > crisp and flat aluminum foil (shiny side exposed) which will also > > help. Using double stick tape and then carefully applying the foil so > > it does not wrinkle too much will work well... especially if the > > inside of your fixture is black. A white reflector is good but a > > mirrored reflector, like that created by the shiny side of foil, is > > MUCH better than a black reflector. Most black fixtures do at least > > have white reflector areas. > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>> > (Links to any articles referenced in > > above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels > > and also under Archives by Year, Month) > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On Behalf Of erikaandnewton > > Sent: Tuesday, November 10, 2009 10:17 AM > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: wisteria/lighting previous > > question/response revisited > > > > << When you say "two strips" do you have two 4' long two-bulb fixtures > > already or something else?>> > > > > i have two 4' single bulb strip lights. > > > > >> What kind of lighting do you currently have? Look at the bulbs and > > >> there should be some kind of writing on one of the ends. Give us > > >> that info if you cannot decipher it yourself.<< > > > > one bulb is a f40 t10 > > the other one is a sylvania daylight bulb also f40 > > > > >> It's probably 21" tall, since a common measurement for a 75G is > > >> 48"x18"x21" Tall.>> > > > > it is 21 inches tall > > > > erika wilmington de usa > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 44382	From: Dora Smith	Date: 11/10/2009
Subject: Re: [Bulk] RE: [AquaticLife] Wow! Aquarium Accident

We like to see aquariums - why shouldn't the public? Yours, Dora Smith Austin, TX tiggernut24@... ----- Original Message ----- From: "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@...> To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Tuesday, November 10, 2009 8:09 PM Subject: [Bulk] RE: [AquaticLife] Wow! Aquarium Accident I hope she has more than 10/20/10 insurance. :-O Poor fish... 90% died that day.... but even worse, poor taxpayers for the airport (a government agency) spending $200,000.00 on a stupid art project... a 1,500G tank that a private entity/person could have probably set up for a fraction of that cost. GlassCages.com sells 500G acrylic tanks for $2,200 so I'm sure a 1,500G would be in the $10,000.00 PLUS range, just for the tank, but still... $200.000.00????? Of course, building it outside, instead of inside, also means a LOT more money spent on temperature control but if it had been built inside, it would have cost a LOT less and it might also still be around today... and it would have saved hundreds of thousands of tax-payer dollars over the past 10 years. Here's the original story on TampaBay.com, with more info and a picture. http://www.tampabay.com/news/publicsafety/accidents/woman-with-boy-in-lap-pl ows-truck-into-tia-wall-destroying-aquarium/1050673 Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Donna Ransome Sent: Tuesday, November 10, 2009 6:42 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Wow! Aquarium Accident http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/33831758/ns/us_news-weird_news/?GT1=43001 ------------------------------------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the home page. Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com to receive the digest, which includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com for the No E-Mail option where you will still be able to read messages on the group and post replies. Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com to receive individual e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 44383	From: Deenerz@aol.com	Date: 11/10/2009
Subject: Re: Question about eating snails

It was a carry over from when his mom sewed the day of the week on his underwear week so he would not wear them all at once. ;) -Mike -----Original Message----- From: Amber Berglund <arberglund@...> To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Tue, Nov 10, 2009 6:19 pm Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Question about eating snails Actually no, but that one looks good ;) LOL Wait... you name your shirts? What's your favorite shirt named right now? LOL Amber Steve Szabo wrote: > > Ws this the recipe? > > ESCARGOTS A LA FETTUCCINI > > 24 (7 1/2 oz. can) very lg. sized escargots, drained > 4 tbsp. butter > 1-2 garlic cloves, minced > 1/2 pt. heavy cream > 1/2 c. grated Parmesan cheese > 1 pkg. frozen peas > Salt and pepper > 1 lb. fettuccini > > Drain escargots, melt butter in heavy saucepan and sauté escargot and > garlic > for 3 minutes. Pour in heavy cream and simmer until mixture thickens > slightly. Add grated cheese, peas and seasonings. Cook a few minutes > longer > until escargots and sauce are hot. Do not overcook. > > While sauce is cooking place fettuccini in a pot of boiling (salted) > water. > Cook 3-4 minutes. Drain pasta and mix with escargots sauce until pasta is > well coated. > > I once had a shirt named Fred. > > \\Steve// > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On > Behalf Of Amber Berglund > Sent: Tuesday, November 10, 2009 5:17 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Question about eating snails > > Actually if you look on applesnail.net they list recipe's for eating > your snails, LOL. > And do dead snails even have guts? LOL. > There are 3 drivers (for now, soon to be 4 hopefully), so they'll have > to narrow it down by names, so I'll have to wear a name tag that says, > "Hello my name is Fred" or something, LOL. > > Amber > > Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > > > > Ummmm.. you (or rather your friend) shouldn't do this. Most dechlor > > products EXPLICITLY advise against eating ornamental fish (and probably > > critters too) that are kept in waters treated with a dechlor product. I > > think the chemicals used in dechlors cause health problems, although I > > doubt > > that five snails would matter. I think it's more for fish farms that > might > > think about using Sodium Thiosulphate as their dechlor if they did not > > have > > a natural water source for the fish stock ponds. > > > > As far as the different taste, could it be like other meats... > chicken for > > example, where the dark meat is much different in taste and texture than > > white meat? > > > > Also, for your health, please do not post this on the Applesnail.net > > forums.. you know them folks are zealous about their snails. They might > > hunt you down and throw dead snail guts on you. LOL They might even > form a > > new radical group called PeTS... People for the Ethical Treatment of > > Snails. > > LOL And if they can't find you, they might go after every other delivery > > truck on your island. BTW... are you the only driver or is Ketchikan big > > enough for two FedEx trucks? LOL > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>> > > (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right > > side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, > Month) > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On > > Behalf Of Amber Berglund > > Sent: Tuesday, November 10, 2009 10:59 AM > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > Subject: [AquaticLife] Question about eating snails > > > > Okay so a friend of mine was inquiring about my mystery snails for > eating > > purposes. Since I have a mass quantity of the happy little guys and > gals I > > figured I would give him all my large snails that are fully grown. He > > ended > > up with 5 and cooked them up as spaghetti. Now my question is this; why > > would the dark footed (purple) mystery snails taste much saltier > than the > > ones with white feet? > > > > Sorry to offend anyone at the idea of eating snails, I've had to do a > > survival trip in my lifetime and had to survive off of limpets, so I'm > > sure > > they taste similar to limpets when cooked up, so it doesn't really > offend > > me, LOL. > > Not to mention the little guys are threatening to breed me out of > > house and > > home ;) LOL. > > > > Amber > > > > ------------------------------------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the home page. Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com to receive the digest, which includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com for the No E-Mail option where you will still be able to read messages on the group and post replies. Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com to receive individual e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 44384	From: bill 1433	Date: 11/10/2009
Subject: Re: wisteria/lighting previous question/response revisited

Yes, Amber   It was I, looking for the original information and also looked back on \\Steve//'s post at group to try and find. Ray had mentioned all this the other day saying that he thought the posting came from \\Steve//.   I was not successful in my search.  Also, for me the most important part was a link to a chart which showed you exactly, or explained exactly the "T" factor stands for.  For instance, T-4 would be a tube that is a half inch wide, or close to it-----------I think.  All this is my own fault.  In my interest to acquire and learn about lighting,I went through and studied the applied links but being ol'bill, I never bookmarked them.  Then to further compound the problem, I deleted the original message that it came from.  In hind-sight you could probably chalk this all up to felonious stupidity on my part.   Bill---where its always a good day if I learn something new! --- On Tue, 11/10/09, Amber Berglund <arberglund@...> wrote: From: Amber Berglund <arberglund@...> Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: wisteria/lighting previous question/response revisited To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Date: Tuesday, November 10, 2009, 9:30 PM I believe it was Steve who posted a link about lumens months back when (I think it was maybe Bill asking) about lighting for planted aquariums. Plants require 2 different spectrums of light to properly produce either leaves or flowers (red is more for flower production and blue is more for growth, but for the best growing you want a mixture of BOTH colors). So in reality you would want a light that appears more brown/reddish in coloring and a blue/white coloring as well, but they now have bulbs that have BOTH spectrums built in (I'm sure they don't work as well as it would to have 2 different bulbs one mostly red and the other mostly blue on the color spectrum). Let me see if I still have the link bookmarked. What I was trying to say is that Kelvin does not tell you what color spectrum the light REALLY is, it's actually measuring it's light output color according to how the human eyes perceive it. So 6500 kelvin in general is what most plants will prefer because that is a mixture of both red and blue spectrums (In MOST bulbs) unfortunately not all light bulb manufactures have to use the exact same chart for their colors, so they will have different colors than another bulb that says it's 6500 Kelvin. what you really need to read is the color chart on the box, not what lumens it says it is. (still searching for link, LOL). This isn't the right link but it discusses the kelvin/lumen problems a little bit, still looking for the link that showed the charts and what to look for in the color charts. http://www.americanaquariumproducts.com/Aquarium_Lighting.html Will post again when I find the other link with chart examples. Amber Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > > I think it would be false advertising or possibly mis-advertising (if they > do not know any better) if a company lists their bulbs as 6500K and they > aren't. The Kelvin scale, just like Watts and Lumens, are ALL > universal and > scientifically measurable scales BUT, as I showed below, not all 40 watt > bulbs put out the same amount of light (lumens) or in the same color > spectrum (Kelvin rating). All 40 watt bulbs, whether incandescent, > fluorescent, CFL, LED, Halogen, etc.... ALL use only/around 40 watts of > electricity but their light output can vary dramatically. This is why > fluorescent bulbs are so much more efficient than incandescent bulbs and > CFL's are even more efficient... as a 40W fluorescent bulb puts out a LOT > more light (lumens) than a 40 watt incandescent bulb and a 40W CFL > puts out > more light (lumens) than a 40W fluorescent bulb. This is why the OLD > "Watts > Per Gallon" rule simply does not work any more. > > BUT.. if three different companies are selling standard T-10 fluorescent > bulbs with the same exact rating of 40W, 3550 lumens and 6500K > rating... all > three of those bulbs should be VERY SIMILAR if not identical in the > way they > appear to our eyes (subject to our own degree of color blindness, of > course!) > > In the past, things like "soft white", "warm white", "daylight", "plant > grow", etc., type terms were used and are still used but those are just > simple words (not subject to a scientific scale) to describe the Kelvin > rating ranges but lumens are just as important since a bulb could have a > 6500K rating with only 2200 lumens where another bulb could have a 6500K > rating and 3550 or 3700 lumens and that bulb would put out over 50% more > light (lumens) in the same color spectrum (Kelvin rating) so it would be a > much more cost effective bulb if it cost the same amount or only a little > more. > > I'm slightly confused about the "red and blue light for your plants" as > those two colors are on opposite ends of the Kelvin Scale with reds and > ambers in the lower numbers and greens and blues in the higher numbers. I > think this is why you would want a mid-range (5000K to 6500K) bulb as > those > are generally considered "full spectrum" or "daylight" bulbs. Here's a > color picture of the Kelvin Scale, > http://www.bltdirect.com/images/colour-temperature.jpg > <http://www.bltdirect.com/images/colour-temperature.jpg> and you can > visually > see that the 5000K to 6500K range is all about the same "color". I think > this is also why Actinic bulbs are usually higher and closer to the 10000K > range and up... apparently, the Kelvin lighting scale can go up to 20,000K > (according to this article about Reef Tanks > http://nh.craigslist.org/for/1423072406.html > <http://nh.craigslist.org/for/1423072406.html> on, of all places, > Craigslist). > Here is the page that that the above photo link came from and it has a > chart > that also explains things a little more also and talks about the CRI, yet > another lighting term (Color Rendition Index). > http://www.bltdirect.com/lampColourTemperatures.php > <http://www.bltdirect.com/lampColourTemperatures.php> > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right > side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On > Behalf Of Amber Berglund > Sent: Tuesday, November 10, 2009 4:22 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: wisteria/lighting previous > question/response > revisited > > Another thing to consider is one light company's 6500 kelvin rating > may not > be identical to another light bulb from a different company that's > rated the > same. The important thing to look at is the color chart they show on the > boxes, you want more red and blue light for your plants, green is not > useful > or harmful as the plants reflect the light back (makes them appear more > green but does nothing else for them). The kelvin rating is based on our > eyes and how they perceive color, so each company doesn't have to be > identical, perhaps some day they will have a universal way to measure > light > spectrums on bulbs that is much less confusing. > > Amber > > Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > > > > OK. So you have a total of 80 watts right now, which is just over 1 > > WPG, which means you only have enough lighting for low-light, easy to > > grow plants. See my blog article "Planted Tank: So You Want A Planted > > Tank" for links to lists of low-light, easy to grow plants that will > > do OK in your tank. You should replace those tubes at least yearly... > > although some say every six months. As far as I know, a 40W bulb is > > the highest wattage made for this type of bulb/fixture right now but > > you can increase your lighting > > (lumens) and K (Kelvin) rating. See below. > > > > NOTE - below links are for example/informational purposes only, as I > > know nothing about the sites. God... did I just say that? Do I really > > have to add disclaimers to my posts now? LOL Just laughing at myself. > > LOL > > > > This may be your Sylvania bulb... > > http://www.lightbulbemporium.com/proddetail.asp?prod=F40/EX50 > <http://www.lightbulbemporium.com/proddetail.asp?prod=F40/EX50> > > <http://www.lightbulbemporium.com/proddetail.asp?prod=F40/EX50 > <http://www.lightbulbemporium.com/proddetail.asp?prod=F40/EX50>> and if > > it is, then it's the same ratings as the specs in the T-10 bulb that I > > copy/pasted below, which is a pretty good bulb with higher lumens and > > the higher K rating, although not a 6500K rated bulb. At the bottom of > > this page, there was a link to this bulb... > > > http://www.lightbulbemporium.com/maxlite_51204_ml_f40t10_850_rscg.asp > <http://www.lightbulbemporium.com/maxlite_51204_ml_f40t10_850_rscg.asp> > > > <http://www.lightbulbemporium.com/maxlite_51204_ml_f40t10_850_rscg.asp > <http://www.lightbulbemporium.com/maxlite_51204_ml_f40t10_850_rscg.asp> > > > > > which > > has an even higher lumen rating of 3700, although not much higher than > > the 3550 rating but every little bit helps especially since the > > MaxLite bulb was a lower price than the Sylvania bulb. > > > > As you will see on this page > > > http://www.lightbulbsdirect.com/Merchant2/merchant.mvc?page=001/CTGY/F > <http://www.lightbulbsdirect.com/Merchant2/merchant.mvc?page=001/CTGY/F> > > S+Fluo > > > <http://www.lightbulbsdirect.com/Merchant2/merchant.mvc?page=001/CTGY/ > <http://www.lightbulbsdirect.com/Merchant2/merchant.mvc?page=001/CTGY/> > > FS+Fluo> > > rescent > > > > The second bulb down would be similar to yours, except we do not know > > the lumen or color spectrum rating on your bulb, unless that link I > > gave above is actually your bulb and then it would be the same as this > > one. The specs on it are: > > > > T-10 Fluorescent > > 40 Watts > > Length: 48" > > Medium Bi-Pin Base > > Color: 5000K Temperature > > Initial Lumens: 3550 > > CRI: 84 > > Average Life: 20,000 Hours > > > > The Color spectrum of 5000K (Kelvin) is OK but 6500K would be much > better. > > The Lumens of 3550 is the actual amount of *light* > > > > The next bulb down from that one is a T-12, which will also fit in > > your fixture but they are bigger diameter bulbs and this one actually > > puts out less light (lumens). Here are the specs: > > > > T-12 Fluorescent > > 40 Watts > > Length: 48" > > Base: Medium Bi-Pin Base > > Initial Lumens: 2200 > > Average Life: 20,000 Hours > > Color Temperature: 5000K > > CRI: 92 > > > > It has the same Color spectrum but only 2200 lumens so the above T-10 > > bulb has around 50% more lumens (light) coming out of it. > > > > Now, if you scroll down to the second from the bottom on the page, > > you'll see the Verilux Instant-Sun T-12 bulb which has a higher Kelvin > > rating but it doesn't list the lumens so this needs to be checked out > > further. While the higher K rating is good, if it goes back down to > > only 2200 lumens, instead of the 3550 lumens of the first referenced > > bulb above, then I would probably go with the 3550 lumens, 5000K bulb > > over the 6280K bulb if the lumens were a LOT less. > > > > (START SNIP) > > Engineered to reproduce all the colors and balance of natural light, > > VeriluxR full spectrum fluorescent tubes feature Trucolite Phosphor > > TechnologyT which includes the use of a stable, custom blend of earth > > phosphors that create bright, balanced full spectrum light. > > T-12 Fluorescent > > 40 Watts > > Length: 48" > > Color Temperature: 6280K > > CRI: 94 > > Medium Bi-Pin Base > > (END SNIP) > > > > So, as you can see, there's a few things to look for when shopping for > > new replacement bulbs. Look for the 5000K to 6500K bulbs with the > > higher lumen rating for the dollar and you should be good. Note that a > > 3550 or 3700 lumen bulb will put out nearly twice as much light as a > > 2000 lumen bulb so it can be easy to increase your lighting without > > increasing the wattage. DO NOT try to use HO or VHO bulbs... which > > look similar but have much higher wattage, well over the 40W bulbs you > > now have. These other HO and VHO bulbs have different pin arrangements > > so they will not fit in your fixture anyhow but I just wanted to save > > you a trip. > > > > Last but not least, if you're handy, you could even take the bulbs out > > of your fixtures and line the insides of your fixtures with nice and > > crisp and flat aluminum foil (shiny side exposed) which will also > > help. Using double stick tape and then carefully applying the foil so > > it does not wrinkle too much will work well... especially if the > > inside of your fixture is black. A white reflector is good but a > > mirrored reflector, like that created by the shiny side of foil, is > > MUCH better than a black reflector. Most black fixtures do at least > > have white reflector areas. > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>> > (Links to any articles referenced in > > above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels > > and also under Archives by Year, Month) > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On Behalf Of erikaandnewton > > Sent: Tuesday, November 10, 2009 10:17 AM > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: wisteria/lighting previous > > question/response revisited > > > > << When you say "two strips" do you have two 4' long two-bulb fixtures > > already or something else?>> > > > > i have two 4' single bulb strip lights. > > > > >> What kind of lighting do you currently have? Look at the bulbs and > > >> there should be some kind of writing on one of the ends. Give us > > >> that info if you cannot decipher it yourself.<< > > > > one bulb is a f40 t10 > > the other one is a sylvania daylight bulb also f40 > > > > >> It's probably 21" tall, since a common measurement for a 75G is > > >> 48"x18"x21" Tall.>> > > > > it is 21 inches tall > > > > erika wilmington de usa > > ------------------------------------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. 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Group: AquaticLife	Message: 44385	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 11/10/2009
Subject: Re: [Bulk] RE: [AquaticLife] Wow! Aquarium Accident

Dora, They can go pay admission to the usually, already, tax-payer subsidized GIANT public aquariums that already exist in so many cities... or they can go to one of the MANY restaurants that have BIG aquariums and see the aquarium for free... many, many in most cities. We use to have a restaurant/bar down here called Sharky's Reef that had a HUGE shark aquarium, probably in the 50,000G range, with about a dozen sharks and it had free entrance during the day to the restaurant... although at night, when it became a club, there was a cover charge to us guys looking to chum the waters and catch something. Landry's Restaurants is a BIG chain of theme restaurants http://www.landrysrestaurants.com/pages/restaurants/pg_restaurants.htm and many of them are set around a HUGE aquarium or other water-type theme.... like a rain forest, etc. Last but not least, they can go see all the aquariums they want by visiting local fish stores (LFS) and big-box pet stores... at no cost to us tax-payers. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Dora Smith Sent: Tuesday, November 10, 2009 8:53 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [Bulk] RE: [AquaticLife] Wow! Aquarium Accident We like to see aquariums - why shouldn't the public? Yours, Dora Smith Austin, TX tiggernut24@... ----- Original Message ----- From: "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@...> To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Tuesday, November 10, 2009 8:09 PM Subject: [Bulk] RE: [AquaticLife] Wow! Aquarium Accident I hope she has more than 10/20/10 insurance. :-O Poor fish... 90% died that day.... but even worse, poor taxpayers for the airport (a government agency) spending $200,000.00 on a stupid art project... a 1,500G tank that a private entity/person could have probably set up for a fraction of that cost. GlassCages.com sells 500G acrylic tanks for $2,200 so I'm sure a 1,500G would be in the $10,000.00 PLUS range, just for the tank, but still... $200.000.00????? Of course, building it outside, instead of inside, also means a LOT more money spent on temperature control but if it had been built inside, it would have cost a LOT less and it might also still be around today... and it would have saved hundreds of thousands of tax-payer dollars over the past 10 years. Here's the original story on TampaBay.com, with more info and a picture. http://www.tampabay.com/news/publicsafety/accidents/woman-with-boy-in-lap-pl ows-truck-into-tia-wall-destroying-aquarium/1050673 Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Donna Ransome Sent: Tuesday, November 10, 2009 6:42 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Wow! Aquarium Accident http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/33831758/ns/us_news-weird_news/?GT1=43001 ------------------------------------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the home page. Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com to receive the digest, which includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com for the No E-Mail option where you will still be able to read messages on the group and post replies. Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com to receive individual e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links ------------------------------------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the home page. Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com to receive the digest, which includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com for the No E-Mail option where you will still be able to read messages on the group and post replies. Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com to receive individual e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 44386	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 11/10/2009
Subject: Re: wisteria/lighting previous question/response revisited

This site I looked at and linked to the other day had the T- ratings broken down. Each T number is equal to 1/8" diameter so a T-2 would be 2/8ths or 1/4" diameter. A T-8 would be 8/8ths or 1". A T-12 would be 12/8ths or 1.5". http://www.servicelighting.com/Straight-Linear-Fluorescent-Light-Bulbs Wikipedia also has an article about T- ratings but the above link shows it with pictures too. LOL Yahoo Group's has been having MAJOR search problems for many months and is a known issue to Yahoo. It has been reported many times on the Yahoo Group's official blog at http://www.YGroupsBlog.com and most recently on October 6, 2009 at http://www.ygroupsblog.com/blog/2009/10/06/issue-update-photos-file-access-e mail-delay/ (SNIP) Message search: We know we’re long overdue for a lengthy post about this, but the short story is, we’re currently waiting on new hardware that will support all of the messages and groups on the Yahoo! Groups system. In the meantime we are slowly moving over a small amount of groups each week to the new message search system. We know that you all have been incredibly patient with us– this is greatly appreciated. (END SNIP) Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of bill 1433 Sent: Tuesday, November 10, 2009 9:20 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: wisteria/lighting previous question/response revisited Yes, Amber   It was I, looking for the original information and also looked back on \\Steve//'s post at group to try and find. Ray had mentioned all this the other day saying that he thought the posting came from \\Steve//.   I was not successful in my search.  Also, for me the most important part was a link to a chart which showed you exactly, or explained exactly the "T" factor stands for.  For instance, T-4 would be a tube that is a half inch wide, or close to it-----------I think.  All this is my own fault.  In my interest to acquire and learn about lighting,I went through and studied the applied links but being ol'bill, I never bookmarked them.  Then to further compound the problem, I deleted the original message that it came from.  In hind-sight you could probably chalk this all up to felonious stupidity on my part.   Bill---where its always a good day if I learn something new! --- On Tue, 11/10/09, Amber Berglund <arberglund@...> wrote: From: Amber Berglund <arberglund@...> Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: wisteria/lighting previous question/response revisited To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Date: Tuesday, November 10, 2009, 9:30 PM I believe it was Steve who posted a link about lumens months back when (I think it was maybe Bill asking) about lighting for planted aquariums. Plants require 2 different spectrums of light to properly produce either leaves or flowers (red is more for flower production and blue is more for growth, but for the best growing you want a mixture of BOTH colors). So in reality you would want a light that appears more brown/reddish in coloring and a blue/white coloring as well, but they now have bulbs that have BOTH spectrums built in (I'm sure they don't work as well as it would to have 2 different bulbs one mostly red and the other mostly blue on the color spectrum). Let me see if I still have the link bookmarked. What I was trying to say is that Kelvin does not tell you what color spectrum the light REALLY is, it's actually measuring it's light output color according to how the human eyes perceive it. So 6500 kelvin in general is what most plants will prefer because that is a mixture of both red and blue spectrums (In MOST bulbs) unfortunately not all light bulb manufactures have to use the exact same chart for their colors, so they will have different colors than another bulb that says it's 6500 Kelvin. what you really need to read is the color chart on the box, not what lumens it says it is. (still searching for link, LOL). This isn't the right link but it discusses the kelvin/lumen problems a little bit, still looking for the link that showed the charts and what to look for in the color charts. http://www.americanaquariumproducts.com/Aquarium_Lighting.html Will post again when I find the other link with chart examples. Amber Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > > I think it would be false advertising or possibly mis-advertising (if > they do not know any better) if a company lists their bulbs as 6500K > and they aren't. The Kelvin scale, just like Watts and Lumens, are ALL > universal and scientifically measurable scales BUT, as I showed below, > not all 40 watt bulbs put out the same amount of light (lumens) or in > the same color spectrum (Kelvin rating). All 40 watt bulbs, whether > incandescent, fluorescent, CFL, LED, Halogen, etc.... ALL use > only/around 40 watts of electricity but their light output can vary > dramatically. This is why fluorescent bulbs are so much more efficient > than incandescent bulbs and CFL's are even more efficient... as a 40W > fluorescent bulb puts out a LOT more light (lumens) than a 40 watt > incandescent bulb and a 40W CFL puts out more light (lumens) than a > 40W fluorescent bulb. This is why the OLD "Watts Per Gallon" rule > simply does not work any more. > > BUT.. if three different companies are selling standard T-10 > fluorescent bulbs with the same exact rating of 40W, 3550 lumens and > 6500K rating... all three of those bulbs should be VERY SIMILAR if not > identical in the way they appear to our eyes (subject to our own > degree of color blindness, of > course!) > > In the past, things like "soft white", "warm white", "daylight", > "plant grow", etc., type terms were used and are still used but those > are just simple words (not subject to a scientific scale) to describe > the Kelvin rating ranges but lumens are just as important since a bulb > could have a 6500K rating with only 2200 lumens where another bulb > could have a 6500K rating and 3550 or 3700 lumens and that bulb would > put out over 50% more light (lumens) in the same color spectrum > (Kelvin rating) so it would be a much more cost effective bulb if it > cost the same amount or only a little more. > > I'm slightly confused about the "red and blue light for your plants" > as those two colors are on opposite ends of the Kelvin Scale with reds > and ambers in the lower numbers and greens and blues in the higher > numbers. I think this is why you would want a mid-range (5000K to > 6500K) bulb as those are generally considered "full spectrum" or > "daylight" bulbs. Here's a color picture of the Kelvin Scale, > http://www.bltdirect.com/images/colour-temperature.jpg > <http://www.bltdirect.com/images/colour-temperature.jpg> and you can > visually see that the 5000K to 6500K range is all about the same > "color". I think this is also why Actinic bulbs are usually higher and > closer to the 10000K range and up... apparently, the Kelvin lighting > scale can go up to 20,000K (according to this article about Reef Tanks > http://nh.craigslist.org/for/1423072406.html > <http://nh.craigslist.org/for/1423072406.html> on, of all places, > Craigslist). > Here is the page that that the above photo link came from and it has a > chart that also explains things a little more also and talks about the > CRI, yet another lighting term (Color Rendition Index). > http://www.bltdirect.com/lampColourTemperatures.php > <http://www.bltdirect.com/lampColourTemperatures.php> > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> (Links to any articles referenced in > above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels > and also under Archives by Year, Month) > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On Behalf Of Amber Berglund > Sent: Tuesday, November 10, 2009 4:22 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: wisteria/lighting previous > question/response revisited > > Another thing to consider is one light company's 6500 kelvin rating > may not be identical to another light bulb from a different company > that's rated the same. The important thing to look at is the color > chart they show on the boxes, you want more red and blue light for > your plants, green is not useful or harmful as the plants reflect the > light back (makes them appear more green but does nothing else for > them). The kelvin rating is based on our eyes and how they perceive > color, so each company doesn't have to be identical, perhaps some day > they will have a universal way to measure light spectrums on bulbs > that is much less confusing. > > Amber > > Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > > > > OK. So you have a total of 80 watts right now, which is just over 1 > > WPG, which means you only have enough lighting for low-light, easy > > to grow plants. See my blog article "Planted Tank: So You Want A > > Planted Tank" for links to lists of low-light, easy to grow plants > > that will do OK in your tank. You should replace those tubes at least yearly... > > although some say every six months. As far as I know, a 40W bulb is > > the highest wattage made for this type of bulb/fixture right now but > > you can increase your lighting > > (lumens) and K (Kelvin) rating. See below. > > > > NOTE - below links are for example/informational purposes only, as I > > know nothing about the sites. God... did I just say that? Do I > > really have to add disclaimers to my posts now? LOL Just laughing at myself. > > LOL > > > > This may be your Sylvania bulb... > > http://www.lightbulbemporium.com/proddetail.asp?prod=F40/EX50 > <http://www.lightbulbemporium.com/proddetail.asp?prod=F40/EX50> > > <http://www.lightbulbemporium.com/proddetail.asp?prod=F40/EX50 > <http://www.lightbulbemporium.com/proddetail.asp?prod=F40/EX50>> and > if > > it is, then it's the same ratings as the specs in the T-10 bulb that > > I copy/pasted below, which is a pretty good bulb with higher lumens > > and the higher K rating, although not a 6500K rated bulb. At the > > bottom of this page, there was a link to this bulb... > > > http://www.lightbulbemporium.com/maxlite_51204_ml_f40t10_850_rscg.asp > <http://www.lightbulbemporium.com/maxlite_51204_ml_f40t10_850_rscg.asp > > > > > <http://www.lightbulbemporium.com/maxlite_51204_ml_f40t10_850_rscg.asp > <http://www.lightbulbemporium.com/maxlite_51204_ml_f40t10_850_rscg.asp > > > > > > > which > > has an even higher lumen rating of 3700, although not much higher > > than the 3550 rating but every little bit helps especially since the > > MaxLite bulb was a lower price than the Sylvania bulb. > > > > As you will see on this page > > > http://www.lightbulbsdirect.com/Merchant2/merchant.mvc?page=001/CTGY/F > <http://www.lightbulbsdirect.com/Merchant2/merchant.mvc?page=001/CTGY/ > F> > > S+Fluo > > > <http://www.lightbulbsdirect.com/Merchant2/merchant.mvc?page=001/CTGY/ > <http://www.lightbulbsdirect.com/Merchant2/merchant.mvc?page=001/CTGY/ > > > > FS+Fluo> > > rescent > > > > The second bulb down would be similar to yours, except we do not > > know the lumen or color spectrum rating on your bulb, unless that > > link I gave above is actually your bulb and then it would be the > > same as this one. The specs on it are: > > > > T-10 Fluorescent > > 40 Watts > > Length: 48" > > Medium Bi-Pin Base > > Color: 5000K Temperature > > Initial Lumens: 3550 > > CRI: 84 > > Average Life: 20,000 Hours > > > > The Color spectrum of 5000K (Kelvin) is OK but 6500K would be much > better. > > The Lumens of 3550 is the actual amount of *light* > > > > The next bulb down from that one is a T-12, which will also fit in > > your fixture but they are bigger diameter bulbs and this one > > actually puts out less light (lumens). Here are the specs: > > > > T-12 Fluorescent > > 40 Watts > > Length: 48" > > Base: Medium Bi-Pin Base > > Initial Lumens: 2200 > > Average Life: 20,000 Hours > > Color Temperature: 5000K > > CRI: 92 > > > > It has the same Color spectrum but only 2200 lumens so the above > > T-10 bulb has around 50% more lumens (light) coming out of it. > > > > Now, if you scroll down to the second from the bottom on the page, > > you'll see the Verilux Instant-Sun T-12 bulb which has a higher > > Kelvin rating but it doesn't list the lumens so this needs to be > > checked out further. While the higher K rating is good, if it goes > > back down to only 2200 lumens, instead of the 3550 lumens of the > > first referenced bulb above, then I would probably go with the 3550 > > lumens, 5000K bulb over the 6280K bulb if the lumens were a LOT less. > > > > (START SNIP) > > Engineered to reproduce all the colors and balance of natural light, > > VeriluxR full spectrum fluorescent tubes feature Trucolite Phosphor > > TechnologyT which includes the use of a stable, custom blend of > > earth phosphors that create bright, balanced full spectrum light. > > T-12 Fluorescent > > 40 Watts > > Length: 48" > > Color Temperature: 6280K > > CRI: 94 > > Medium Bi-Pin Base > > (END SNIP) > > > > So, as you can see, there's a few things to look for when shopping > > for new replacement bulbs. Look for the 5000K to 6500K bulbs with > > the higher lumen rating for the dollar and you should be good. Note > > that a 3550 or 3700 lumen bulb will put out nearly twice as much > > light as a 2000 lumen bulb so it can be easy to increase your > > lighting without increasing the wattage. DO NOT try to use HO or VHO > > bulbs... which look similar but have much higher wattage, well over > > the 40W bulbs you now have. These other HO and VHO bulbs have > > different pin arrangements so they will not fit in your fixture > > anyhow but I just wanted to save you a trip. > > > > Last but not least, if you're handy, you could even take the bulbs > > out of your fixtures and line the insides of your fixtures with nice > > and crisp and flat aluminum foil (shiny side exposed) which will > > also help. Using double stick tape and then carefully applying the > > foil so it does not wrinkle too much will work well... especially if > > the inside of your fixture is black. A white reflector is good but a > > mirrored reflector, like that created by the shiny side of foil, is > > MUCH better than a black reflector. Most black fixtures do at least > > have white reflector areas. > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>> > (Links to any articles referenced in > > above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under > > Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On Behalf Of erikaandnewton > > Sent: Tuesday, November 10, 2009 10:17 AM > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: wisteria/lighting previous > > question/response revisited > > > > << When you say "two strips" do you have two 4' long two-bulb > > fixtures already or something else?>> > > > > i have two 4' single bulb strip lights. > > > > >> What kind of lighting do you currently have? Look at the bulbs > > >> and there should be some kind of writing on one of the ends. Give > > >> us that info if you cannot decipher it yourself.<< > > > > one bulb is a f40 t10 > > the other one is a sylvania daylight bulb also f40 > > > > >> It's probably 21" tall, since a common measurement for a 75G is > > >> 48"x18"x21" Tall.>> > > > > it is 21 inches tall > > > > erika wilmington de usa > > ------------------------------------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the home page.  Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com to receive the digest, which includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com for the No E-Mail option where you will still be able to read messages on the group and post replies. Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com to receive individual e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links ------------------------------------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the home page. Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com to receive the digest, which includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com for the No E-Mail option where you will still be able to read messages on the group and post replies. Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com to receive individual e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 44387	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 11/10/2009
Subject: Re: Question about eating snails

Amber, No, I don't have to. Some of the shirts come with names already one them. That one happened to be Fred. He had his name embroidered right over his left pocket. They are hard to come by. I've only seen them at Sallie's. \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Amber Berglund Sent: Tuesday, November 10, 2009 9:20 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Question about eating snails Actually no, but that one looks good ;) LOL Wait... you name your shirts? What's your favorite shirt named right now? LOL Amber Steve Szabo wrote: > > Ws this the recipe? > > ESCARGOTS A LA FETTUCCINI > > 24 (7 1/2 oz. can) very lg. sized escargots, drained > 4 tbsp. butter > 1-2 garlic cloves, minced > 1/2 pt. heavy cream > 1/2 c. grated Parmesan cheese > 1 pkg. frozen peas > Salt and pepper > 1 lb. fettuccini > > Drain escargots, melt butter in heavy saucepan and sauté escargot and > garlic > for 3 minutes. Pour in heavy cream and simmer until mixture thickens > slightly. Add grated cheese, peas and seasonings. Cook a few minutes > longer > until escargots and sauce are hot. Do not overcook. > > While sauce is cooking place fettuccini in a pot of boiling (salted) > water. > Cook 3-4 minutes. Drain pasta and mix with escargots sauce until pasta is > well coated. > > I once had a shirt named Fred. > > \\Steve// > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On > Behalf Of Amber Berglund > Sent: Tuesday, November 10, 2009 5:17 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Question about eating snails > > Actually if you look on applesnail.net they list recipe's for eating > your snails, LOL. > And do dead snails even have guts? LOL. > There are 3 drivers (for now, soon to be 4 hopefully), so they'll have > to narrow it down by names, so I'll have to wear a name tag that says, > "Hello my name is Fred" or something, LOL. > > Amber > > Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > > > > Ummmm.. you (or rather your friend) shouldn't do this. Most dechlor > > products EXPLICITLY advise against eating ornamental fish (and probably > > critters too) that are kept in waters treated with a dechlor product. I > > think the chemicals used in dechlors cause health problems, although I > > doubt > > that five snails would matter. I think it's more for fish farms that > might > > think about using Sodium Thiosulphate as their dechlor if they did not > > have > > a natural water source for the fish stock ponds. > > > > As far as the different taste, could it be like other meats... > chicken for > > example, where the dark meat is much different in taste and texture than > > white meat? > > > > Also, for your health, please do not post this on the Applesnail.net > > forums.. you know them folks are zealous about their snails. They might > > hunt you down and throw dead snail guts on you. LOL They might even > form a > > new radical group called PeTS... People for the Ethical Treatment of > > Snails. > > LOL And if they can't find you, they might go after every other delivery > > truck on your island. BTW... are you the only driver or is Ketchikan big > > enough for two FedEx trucks? LOL > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>> > > (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right > > side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, > Month) > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On > > Behalf Of Amber Berglund > > Sent: Tuesday, November 10, 2009 10:59 AM > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > Subject: [AquaticLife] Question about eating snails > > > > Okay so a friend of mine was inquiring about my mystery snails for > eating > > purposes. Since I have a mass quantity of the happy little guys and > gals I > > figured I would give him all my large snails that are fully grown. He > > ended > > up with 5 and cooked them up as spaghetti. Now my question is this; why > > would the dark footed (purple) mystery snails taste much saltier > than the > > ones with white feet? > > > > Sorry to offend anyone at the idea of eating snails, I've had to do a > > survival trip in my lifetime and had to survive off of limpets, so I'm > > sure > > they taste similar to limpets when cooked up, so it doesn't really > offend > > me, LOL. > > Not to mention the little guys are threatening to breed me out of > > house and > > home ;) LOL. > > > > Amber > > > > ------------------------------------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the home page. Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com to receive the digest, which includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com for the No E-Mail option where you will still be able to read messages on the group and post replies. Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com to receive individual e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 44388	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 11/10/2009
Subject: Re: Question about eating snails

Ahhh, now I get it, LOL. My name would be Fed Ex then ;) LOL All my shirts have it embroidered on them (and my hat, jacket, vest, etc... I'm a walking logo). Amber Steve Szabo wrote: > > Amber, > > No, I don't have to. Some of the shirts come with names already one them. > That one happened to be Fred. He had his name embroidered right over his > left pocket. They are hard to come by. I've only seen them at Sallie's. > > \\Steve// > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On > Behalf Of Amber Berglund > Sent: Tuesday, November 10, 2009 9:20 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Question about eating snails > > Actually no, but that one looks good ;) LOL > Wait... you name your shirts? > What's your favorite shirt named right now? LOL > > Amber > > Steve Szabo wrote: > > > > Ws this the recipe? > > > > ESCARGOTS A LA FETTUCCINI > > > > 24 (7 1/2 oz. can) very lg. sized escargots, drained > > 4 tbsp. butter > > 1-2 garlic cloves, minced > > 1/2 pt. heavy cream > > 1/2 c. grated Parmesan cheese > > 1 pkg. frozen peas > > Salt and pepper > > 1 lb. fettuccini > > > > Drain escargots, melt butter in heavy saucepan and sauté escargot and > > garlic > > for 3 minutes. Pour in heavy cream and simmer until mixture thickens > > slightly. Add grated cheese, peas and seasonings. Cook a few minutes > > longer > > until escargots and sauce are hot. Do not overcook. > > > > While sauce is cooking place fettuccini in a pot of boiling (salted) > > water. > > Cook 3-4 minutes. Drain pasta and mix with escargots sauce until > pasta is > > well coated. > > > > I once had a shirt named Fred. > > > > \\Steve// > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On > > Behalf Of Amber Berglund > > Sent: Tuesday, November 10, 2009 5:17 PM > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Question about eating snails > > > > Actually if you look on applesnail.net they list recipe's for eating > > your snails, LOL. > > And do dead snails even have guts? LOL. > > There are 3 drivers (for now, soon to be 4 hopefully), so they'll have > > to narrow it down by names, so I'll have to wear a name tag that says, > > "Hello my name is Fred" or something, LOL. > > > > Amber > > > > Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > > > > > > Ummmm.. you (or rather your friend) shouldn't do this. Most dechlor > > > products EXPLICITLY advise against eating ornamental fish (and > probably > > > critters too) that are kept in waters treated with a dechlor > product. I > > > think the chemicals used in dechlors cause health problems, although I > > > doubt > > > that five snails would matter. I think it's more for fish farms that > > might > > > think about using Sodium Thiosulphate as their dechlor if they did not > > > have > > > a natural water source for the fish stock ponds. > > > > > > As far as the different taste, could it be like other meats... > > chicken for > > > example, where the dark meat is much different in taste and > texture than > > > white meat? > > > > > > Also, for your health, please do not post this on the Applesnail.net > > > forums.. you know them folks are zealous about their snails. They > might > > > hunt you down and throw dead snail guts on you. LOL They might even > > form a > > > new radical group called PeTS... People for the Ethical Treatment of > > > Snails. > > > LOL And if they can't find you, they might go after every other > delivery > > > truck on your island. BTW... are you the only driver or is > Ketchikan big > > > enough for two FedEx trucks? LOL > > > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>>> > > > (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the > right > > > side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, > > Month) > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On > > > Behalf Of Amber Berglund > > > Sent: Tuesday, November 10, 2009 10:59 AM > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > Subject: [AquaticLife] Question about eating snails > > > > > > Okay so a friend of mine was inquiring about my mystery snails for > > eating > > > purposes. Since I have a mass quantity of the happy little guys and > > gals I > > > figured I would give him all my large snails that are fully grown. He > > > ended > > > up with 5 and cooked them up as spaghetti. Now my question is > this; why > > > would the dark footed (purple) mystery snails taste much saltier > > than the > > > ones with white feet? > > > > > > Sorry to offend anyone at the idea of eating snails, I've had to do a > > > survival trip in my lifetime and had to survive off of limpets, so I'm > > > sure > > > they taste similar to limpets when cooked up, so it doesn't really > > offend > > > me, LOL. > > > Not to mention the little guys are threatening to breed me out of > > > house and > > > home ;) LOL. > > > > > > Amber > > > > > > > > > ------------------------------------ > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. > ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> > PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to > the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the > SUBJECT > LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- > <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. > > If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of unsubscribing, you > can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the > home page. > > Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:aquaticlife-digest%40yahoogroups.com> to receive the digest, which > includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email > > Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:aquaticlife-nomail%40yahoogroups.com> for the No E-Mail option > where > you will still be able to read messages on the group and post replies. > > Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:aquaticlife-normal%40yahoogroups.com> to receive individual > e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 44389	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 11/10/2009
Subject: Re: wisteria/lighting previous question/response revisited

No worries Bill, I do the same thing, maybe Lenny will be so kind as to send us all his bookmarks? LOL Amber bill 1433 wrote: > > Yes, Amber > > It was I, looking for the original information and also looked back on > \\Steve//'s post at group to try and find. Ray had mentioned all this > the other day saying that he thought the posting came from \\Steve//. > > I was not successful in my search. Also, for me the most important > part was a link to a chart which showed you exactly, or explained > exactly the "T" factor stands for. For instance, T-4 would be a tube > that is a half inch wide, or close to it-----------I think. All this > is my own fault. In my interest to acquire and learn about lighting,I > went through and studied the applied links but being ol'bill, I never > bookmarked them. Then to further compound the problem, I deleted the > original message that it came from. In hind-sight you could probably > chalk this all up to felonious stupidity on my part. > > Bill---where its always a good day if I learn something new! > > --- On Tue, 11/10/09, Amber Berglund <arberglund@... > <mailto:arberglund%40gmail.com>> wrote: > > From: Amber Berglund <arberglund@... > <mailto:arberglund%40gmail.com>> > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: wisteria/lighting previous > question/response revisited > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Date: Tuesday, November 10, 2009, 9:30 PM > > I believe it was Steve who posted a link about lumens months back when > (I think it was maybe Bill asking) about lighting for planted aquariums. > Plants require 2 different spectrums of light to properly produce either > leaves or flowers (red is more for flower production and blue is more > for growth, but for the best growing you want a mixture of BOTH colors). > So in reality you would want a light that appears more brown/reddish in > coloring and a blue/white coloring as well, but they now have bulbs that > have BOTH spectrums built in (I'm sure they don't work as well as it > would to have 2 different bulbs one mostly red and the other mostly blue > on the color spectrum). > Let me see if I still have the link bookmarked. > What I was trying to say is that Kelvin does not tell you what color > spectrum the light REALLY is, it's actually measuring it's light output > color according to how the human eyes perceive it. So 6500 kelvin in > general is what most plants will prefer because that is a mixture of > both red and blue spectrums (In MOST bulbs) unfortunately not all light > bulb manufactures have to use the exact same chart for their colors, so > they will have different colors than another bulb that says it's 6500 > Kelvin. what you really need to read is the color chart on the box, not > what lumens it says it is. > (still searching for link, LOL). > > This isn't the right link but it discusses the kelvin/lumen problems a > little bit, still looking for the link that showed the charts and what > to look for in the color charts. > http://www.americanaquariumproducts.com/Aquarium_Lighting.html > <http://www.americanaquariumproducts.com/Aquarium_Lighting.html> > > Will post again when I find the other link with chart examples. > > Amber > > Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > > > > I think it would be false advertising or possibly mis-advertising > (if they > > do not know any better) if a company lists their bulbs as 6500K and they > > aren't. The Kelvin scale, just like Watts and Lumens, are ALL > > universal and > > scientifically measurable scales BUT, as I showed below, not all 40 watt > > bulbs put out the same amount of light (lumens) or in the same color > > spectrum (Kelvin rating). All 40 watt bulbs, whether incandescent, > > fluorescent, CFL, LED, Halogen, etc.... ALL use only/around 40 watts of > > electricity but their light output can vary dramatically. This is why > > fluorescent bulbs are so much more efficient than incandescent bulbs and > > CFL's are even more efficient... as a 40W fluorescent bulb puts out > a LOT > > more light (lumens) than a 40 watt incandescent bulb and a 40W CFL > > puts out > > more light (lumens) than a 40W fluorescent bulb. This is why the OLD > > "Watts > > Per Gallon" rule simply does not work any more. > > > > BUT.. if three different companies are selling standard T-10 fluorescent > > bulbs with the same exact rating of 40W, 3550 lumens and 6500K > > rating... all > > three of those bulbs should be VERY SIMILAR if not identical in the > > way they > > appear to our eyes (subject to our own degree of color blindness, of > > course!) > > > > In the past, things like "soft white", "warm white", "daylight", "plant > > grow", etc., type terms were used and are still used but those are just > > simple words (not subject to a scientific scale) to describe the Kelvin > > rating ranges but lumens are just as important since a bulb could have a > > 6500K rating with only 2200 lumens where another bulb could have a 6500K > > rating and 3550 or 3700 lumens and that bulb would put out over 50% more > > light (lumens) in the same color spectrum (Kelvin rating) so it > would be a > > much more cost effective bulb if it cost the same amount or only a > little > > more. > > > > I'm slightly confused about the "red and blue light for your plants" as > > those two colors are on opposite ends of the Kelvin Scale with reds and > > ambers in the lower numbers and greens and blues in the higher > numbers. I > > think this is why you would want a mid-range (5000K to 6500K) bulb as > > those > > are generally considered "full spectrum" or "daylight" bulbs. Here's a > > color picture of the Kelvin Scale, > > http://www.bltdirect.com/images/colour-temperature.jpg > <http://www.bltdirect.com/images/colour-temperature.jpg> > > <http://www.bltdirect.com/images/colour-temperature.jpg > <http://www.bltdirect.com/images/colour-temperature.jpg>> and you can > > visually > > see that the 5000K to 6500K range is all about the same "color". I think > > this is also why Actinic bulbs are usually higher and closer to the > 10000K > > range and up... apparently, the Kelvin lighting scale can go up to > 20,000K > > (according to this article about Reef Tanks > > http://nh.craigslist.org/for/1423072406.html > <http://nh.craigslist.org/for/1423072406.html> > > <http://nh.craigslist.org/for/1423072406.html > <http://nh.craigslist.org/for/1423072406.html>> on, of all places, > > Craigslist). > > Here is the page that that the above photo link came from and it has a > > chart > > that also explains things a little more also and talks about the > CRI, yet > > another lighting term (Color Rendition Index). > > http://www.bltdirect.com/lampColourTemperatures.php > <http://www.bltdirect.com/lampColourTemperatures.php> > > <http://www.bltdirect.com/lampColourTemperatures.php > <http://www.bltdirect.com/lampColourTemperatures.php>> > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>> > > (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right > > side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, > Month) > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On > > Behalf Of Amber Berglund > > Sent: Tuesday, November 10, 2009 4:22 PM > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: wisteria/lighting previous > > question/response > > revisited > > > > Another thing to consider is one light company's 6500 kelvin rating > > may not > > be identical to another light bulb from a different company that's > > rated the > > same. The important thing to look at is the color chart they show on the > > boxes, you want more red and blue light for your plants, green is not > > useful > > or harmful as the plants reflect the light back (makes them appear more > > green but does nothing else for them). The kelvin rating is based on our > > eyes and how they perceive color, so each company doesn't have to be > > identical, perhaps some day they will have a universal way to measure > > light > > spectrums on bulbs that is much less confusing. > > > > Amber > > > > Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > > > > > > OK. So you have a total of 80 watts right now, which is just over 1 > > > WPG, which means you only have enough lighting for low-light, easy to > > > grow plants. See my blog article "Planted Tank: So You Want A Planted > > > Tank" for links to lists of low-light, easy to grow plants that will > > > do OK in your tank. You should replace those tubes at least yearly... > > > although some say every six months. As far as I know, a 40W bulb is > > > the highest wattage made for this type of bulb/fixture right now but > > > you can increase your lighting > > > (lumens) and K (Kelvin) rating. See below. > > > > > > NOTE - below links are for example/informational purposes only, as I > > > know nothing about the sites. God... did I just say that? Do I really > > > have to add disclaimers to my posts now? LOL Just laughing at myself. > > > LOL > > > > > > This may be your Sylvania bulb... > > > http://www.lightbulbemporium.com/proddetail.asp?prod=F40/EX50 > <http://www.lightbulbemporium.com/proddetail.asp?prod=F40/EX50> > > <http://www.lightbulbemporium.com/proddetail.asp?prod=F40/EX50 > <http://www.lightbulbemporium.com/proddetail.asp?prod=F40/EX50>> > > > <http://www.lightbulbemporium.com/proddetail.asp?prod=F40/EX50 > <http://www.lightbulbemporium.com/proddetail.asp?prod=F40/EX50> > > <http://www.lightbulbemporium.com/proddetail.asp?prod=F40/EX50 > <http://www.lightbulbemporium.com/proddetail.asp?prod=F40/EX50>>> and if > > > it is, then it's the same ratings as the specs in the T-10 bulb that I > > > copy/pasted below, which is a pretty good bulb with higher lumens and > > > the higher K rating, although not a 6500K rated bulb. At the bottom of > > > this page, there was a link to this bulb... > > > > > > http://www.lightbulbemporium.com/maxlite_51204_ml_f40t10_850_rscg.asp > <http://www.lightbulbemporium.com/maxlite_51204_ml_f40t10_850_rscg.asp> > > > <http://www.lightbulbemporium.com/maxlite_51204_ml_f40t10_850_rscg.asp > <http://www.lightbulbemporium.com/maxlite_51204_ml_f40t10_850_rscg.asp>> > > > > > > <http://www.lightbulbemporium.com/maxlite_51204_ml_f40t10_850_rscg.asp > <http://www.lightbulbemporium.com/maxlite_51204_ml_f40t10_850_rscg.asp> > > > <http://www.lightbulbemporium.com/maxlite_51204_ml_f40t10_850_rscg.asp > <http://www.lightbulbemporium.com/maxlite_51204_ml_f40t10_850_rscg.asp>> > > > > > > > which > > > has an even higher lumen rating of 3700, although not much higher than > > > the 3550 rating but every little bit helps especially since the > > > MaxLite bulb was a lower price than the Sylvania bulb. > > > > > > As you will see on this page > > > > > > http://www.lightbulbsdirect.com/Merchant2/merchant.mvc?page=001/CTGY/F > <http://www.lightbulbsdirect.com/Merchant2/merchant.mvc?page=001/CTGY/F> > > > <http://www.lightbulbsdirect.com/Merchant2/merchant.mvc?page=001/CTGY/F > <http://www.lightbulbsdirect.com/Merchant2/merchant.mvc?page=001/CTGY/F>> > > > S+Fluo > > > > > > <http://www.lightbulbsdirect.com/Merchant2/merchant.mvc?page=001/CTGY/ > <http://www.lightbulbsdirect.com/Merchant2/merchant.mvc?page=001/CTGY/> > > > <http://www.lightbulbsdirect.com/Merchant2/merchant.mvc?page=001/CTGY/ > <http://www.lightbulbsdirect.com/Merchant2/merchant.mvc?page=001/CTGY/>> > > > FS+Fluo> > > > rescent > > > > > > The second bulb down would be similar to yours, except we do not know > > > the lumen or color spectrum rating on your bulb, unless that link I > > > gave above is actually your bulb and then it would be the same as this > > > one. The specs on it are: > > > > > > T-10 Fluorescent > > > 40 Watts > > > Length: 48" > > > Medium Bi-Pin Base > > > Color: 5000K Temperature > > > Initial Lumens: 3550 > > > CRI: 84 > > > Average Life: 20,000 Hours > > > > > > The Color spectrum of 5000K (Kelvin) is OK but 6500K would be much > > better. > > > The Lumens of 3550 is the actual amount of *light* > > > > > > The next bulb down from that one is a T-12, which will also fit in > > > your fixture but they are bigger diameter bulbs and this one actually > > > puts out less light (lumens). Here are the specs: > > > > > > T-12 Fluorescent > > > 40 Watts > > > Length: 48" > > > Base: Medium Bi-Pin Base > > > Initial Lumens: 2200 > > > Average Life: 20,000 Hours > > > Color Temperature: 5000K > > > CRI: 92 > > > > > > It has the same Color spectrum but only 2200 lumens so the above T-10 > > > bulb has around 50% more lumens (light) coming out of it. > > > > > > Now, if you scroll down to the second from the bottom on the page, > > > you'll see the Verilux Instant-Sun T-12 bulb which has a higher Kelvin > > > rating but it doesn't list the lumens so this needs to be checked out > > > further. While the higher K rating is good, if it goes back down to > > > only 2200 lumens, instead of the 3550 lumens of the first referenced > > > bulb above, then I would probably go with the 3550 lumens, 5000K bulb > > > over the 6280K bulb if the lumens were a LOT less. > > > > > > (START SNIP) > > > Engineered to reproduce all the colors and balance of natural light, > > > VeriluxR full spectrum fluorescent tubes feature Trucolite Phosphor > > > TechnologyT which includes the use of a stable, custom blend of earth > > > phosphors that create bright, balanced full spectrum light. > > > T-12 Fluorescent > > > 40 Watts > > > Length: 48" > > > Color Temperature: 6280K > > > CRI: 94 > > > Medium Bi-Pin Base > > > (END SNIP) > > > > > > So, as you can see, there's a few things to look for when shopping for > > > new replacement bulbs. Look for the 5000K to 6500K bulbs with the > > > higher lumen rating for the dollar and you should be good. Note that a > > > 3550 or 3700 lumen bulb will put out nearly twice as much light as a > > > 2000 lumen bulb so it can be easy to increase your lighting without > > > increasing the wattage. DO NOT try to use HO or VHO bulbs... which > > > look similar but have much higher wattage, well over the 40W bulbs you > > > now have. These other HO and VHO bulbs have different pin arrangements > > > so they will not fit in your fixture anyhow but I just wanted to save > > > you a trip. > > > > > > Last but not least, if you're handy, you could even take the bulbs out > > > of your fixtures and line the insides of your fixtures with nice and > > > crisp and flat aluminum foil (shiny side exposed) which will also > > > help. Using double stick tape and then carefully applying the foil so > > > it does not wrinkle too much will work well... especially if the > > > inside of your fixture is black. A white reflector is good but a > > > mirrored reflector, like that created by the shiny side of foil, is > > > MUCH better than a black reflector. Most black fixtures do at least > > > have white reflector areas. > > > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>> > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>>> > > (Links to any articles referenced in > > > above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels > > > and also under Archives by Year, Month) > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On Behalf Of erikaandnewton > > > Sent: Tuesday, November 10, 2009 10:17 AM > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: wisteria/lighting previous > > > question/response revisited > > > > > > << When you say "two strips" do you have two 4' long two-bulb fixtures > > > already or something else?>> > > > > > > i have two 4' single bulb strip lights. > > > > > > >> What kind of lighting do you currently have? Look at the bulbs and > > > >> there should be some kind of writing on one of the ends. Give us > > > >> that info if you cannot decipher it yourself.<< > > > > > > one bulb is a f40 t10 > > > the other one is a sylvania daylight bulb also f40 > > > > > > >> It's probably 21" tall, since a common measurement for a 75G is > > > >> 48"x18"x21" Tall.>> > > > > > > it is 21 inches tall > > > > > > erika wilmington de usa > > > > > > ------------------------------------ > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. > ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> > PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT > important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message > MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- > <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. > > If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of unsubscribing, > you can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My > Membership" on the home page. > > Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:aquaticlife-digest%40yahoogroups.com> to receive the digest, > which includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email > > Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:aquaticlife-nomail%40yahoogroups.com> for the No E-Mail option > where you will still be able to read messages on the group and post > replies. > > Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:aquaticlife-normal%40yahoogroups.com> to receive individual > e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 44390	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 11/10/2009
Subject: Re: [Bulk] RE: [AquaticLife] Wow! Aquarium Accident

Unless your Amber and live on an island in Alaska. LOL. The biggest aquarium display we ever had was about 500 gallons and it was a saltwater display at a local seafood seller (fresh seafood), but unfortunately they took it down at some point years ago and put it in someone's backyard where it ended up cracked. I think it's still sitting in their backyard, only been, oh.. 10 years? LOL. Amber Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > > Dora, > > They can go pay admission to the usually, already, tax-payer subsidized > GIANT public aquariums that already exist in so many cities... or they can > go to one of the MANY restaurants that have BIG aquariums and see the > aquarium for free... many, many in most cities. > > We use to have a restaurant/bar down here called Sharky's Reef that had a > HUGE shark aquarium, probably in the 50,000G range, with about a dozen > sharks and it had free entrance during the day to the restaurant... > although > at night, when it became a club, there was a cover charge to us guys > looking > to chum the waters and catch something. > > Landry's Restaurants is a BIG chain of theme restaurants > http://www.landrysrestaurants.com/pages/restaurants/pg_restaurants.htm > <http://www.landrysrestaurants.com/pages/restaurants/pg_restaurants.htm> > and > many of them are set around a HUGE aquarium or other water-type theme.... > like a rain forest, etc. > > Last but not least, they can go see all the aquariums they want by > visiting > local fish stores (LFS) and big-box pet stores... at no cost to us > tax-payers. > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right > side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On > Behalf Of Dora Smith > Sent: Tuesday, November 10, 2009 8:53 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Subject: Re: [Bulk] RE: [AquaticLife] Wow! Aquarium Accident > > We like to see aquariums - why shouldn't the public? > > Yours, > Dora Smith > Austin, TX > tiggernut24@... <mailto:tiggernut24%40yahoo.com> > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@... > <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com>> > To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>> > Sent: Tuesday, November 10, 2009 8:09 PM > Subject: [Bulk] RE: [AquaticLife] Wow! Aquarium Accident > > I hope she has more than 10/20/10 insurance. :-O > > Poor fish... 90% died that day.... but even worse, poor taxpayers for the > airport (a government agency) spending $200,000.00 on a stupid art > project... a 1,500G tank that a private entity/person could have probably > set up for a fraction of that cost. > > GlassCages.com sells 500G acrylic tanks for $2,200 so I'm sure a 1,500G > would be in the $10,000.00 PLUS range, just for the tank, but still... > $200.000.00????? Of course, building it outside, instead of inside, also > means a LOT more money spent on temperature control but if it had been > built > inside, it would have cost a LOT less and it might also still be around > today... and it would have saved hundreds of thousands of tax-payer > dollars > over the past 10 years. > > Here's the original story on TampaBay.com, with more info and a picture. > http://www.tampabay.com/news/publicsafety/accidents/woman-with-boy-in-lap-pl > <http://www.tampabay.com/news/publicsafety/accidents/woman-with-boy-in-lap-pl> > ows-truck-into-tia-wall-destroying-aquarium/1050673 > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right > side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On > Behalf Of Donna Ransome > Sent: Tuesday, November 10, 2009 6:42 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Subject: [AquaticLife] Wow! Aquarium Accident > > http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/33831758/ns/us_news-weird_news/?GT1=43001 > <http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/33831758/ns/us_news-weird_news/?GT1=43001> > > ------------------------------------ > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. > ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> > PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT > important to > the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the > SUBJECT > > LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- > <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. > > If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of unsubscribing, > you > can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My Membership" on > the > home page. > > Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:aquaticlife-digest%40yahoogroups.com> to receive the digest, > which > includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email > > Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:aquaticlife-nomail%40yahoogroups.com> for the No E-Mail option > where > you will still be able to read messages on the group and post replies. > > Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:aquaticlife-normal%40yahoogroups.com> to receive individual > e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links > > ------------------------------------ > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. > ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> > PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to > the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the > SUBJECT > LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- > <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. > > If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of unsubscribing, you > can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the > home page. > > Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:aquaticlife-digest%40yahoogroups.com> to receive the digest, which > includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email > > Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:aquaticlife-nomail%40yahoogroups.com> for the No E-Mail option > where > you will still be able to read messages on the group and post replies. > > Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:aquaticlife-normal%40yahoogroups.com> to receive individual > e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 44391	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 11/10/2009
Subject: Re: Question about eating snails

Are you sure that wasn't a DERF shirt http://www.zazzle.com/derf_tshirt-235652671296243847 and you were just looking in the mirror? This one even comes with your picture on it. ;-) Kind of like them people who have REKCUS written on their foreheads. ;-) Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Steve Szabo Sent: Tuesday, November 10, 2009 10:08 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Question about eating snails Amber, No, I don't have to. Some of the shirts come with names already on them. That one happened to be Fred. He had his name embroidered right over his left pocket. They are hard to come by. I've only seen them at Sallie's. \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Amber Berglund Sent: Tuesday, November 10, 2009 9:20 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Question about eating snails Actually no, but that one looks good ;) LOL Wait... you name your shirts? What's your favorite shirt named right now? LOL Amber Steve Szabo wrote: > > Ws this the recipe? > > ESCARGOTS A LA FETTUCCINI > > 24 (7 1/2 oz. can) very lg. sized escargots, drained > 4 tbsp. butter > 1-2 garlic cloves, minced > 1/2 pt. heavy cream > 1/2 c. grated Parmesan cheese > 1 pkg. frozen peas > Salt and pepper > 1 lb. fettuccini > > Drain escargots, melt butter in heavy saucepan and sauté escargot and > garlic for 3 minutes. Pour in heavy cream and simmer until mixture > thickens slightly. Add grated cheese, peas and seasonings. Cook a few > minutes longer until escargots and sauce are hot. Do not overcook. > > While sauce is cooking place fettuccini in a pot of boiling (salted) > water. > Cook 3-4 minutes. Drain pasta and mix with escargots sauce until pasta > is well coated. > > I once had a shirt named Fred. > > \\Steve// > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On Behalf Of Amber Berglund > Sent: Tuesday, November 10, 2009 5:17 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Question about eating snails > > Actually if you look on applesnail.net they list recipe's for eating > your snails, LOL. > And do dead snails even have guts? LOL. > There are 3 drivers (for now, soon to be 4 hopefully), so they'll have > to narrow it down by names, so I'll have to wear a name tag that says, > "Hello my name is Fred" or something, LOL. > > Amber > > Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > > > > Ummmm.. you (or rather your friend) shouldn't do this. Most dechlor > > products EXPLICITLY advise against eating ornamental fish (and > > probably critters too) that are kept in waters treated with a > > dechlor product. I think the chemicals used in dechlors cause health > > problems, although I doubt that five snails would matter. I think > > it's more for fish farms that > might > > think about using Sodium Thiosulphate as their dechlor if they did > > not have a natural water source for the fish stock ponds. > > > > As far as the different taste, could it be like other meats... > chicken for > > example, where the dark meat is much different in taste and texture > > than white meat? > > > > Also, for your health, please do not post this on the Applesnail.net > > forums.. you know them folks are zealous about their snails. They > > might hunt you down and throw dead snail guts on you. LOL They might > > even > form a > > new radical group called PeTS... People for the Ethical Treatment of > > Snails. > > LOL And if they can't find you, they might go after every other > > delivery truck on your island. BTW... are you the only driver or is > > Ketchikan big enough for two FedEx trucks? LOL > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>> > > (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the > > right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by > > Year, > Month) > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On Behalf Of Amber Berglund > > Sent: Tuesday, November 10, 2009 10:59 AM > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > Subject: [AquaticLife] Question about eating snails > > > > Okay so a friend of mine was inquiring about my mystery snails for > eating > > purposes. Since I have a mass quantity of the happy little guys and > gals I > > figured I would give him all my large snails that are fully grown. > > He ended up with 5 and cooked them up as spaghetti. Now my question > > is this; why would the dark footed (purple) mystery snails taste > > much saltier > than the > > ones with white feet? > > > > Sorry to offend anyone at the idea of eating snails, I've had to do > > a survival trip in my lifetime and had to survive off of limpets, so > > I'm sure they taste similar to limpets when cooked up, so it doesn't > > really > offend > > me, LOL. > > Not to mention the little guys are threatening to breed me out of > > house and home ;) LOL. > > > > Amber > > > > ------------------------------------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the home page. Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com to receive the digest, which includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com for the No E-Mail option where you will still be able to read messages on the group and post replies. Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com to receive individual e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links ------------------------------------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the home page. Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com to receive the digest, which includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com for the No E-Mail option where you will still be able to read messages on the group and post replies. Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com to receive individual e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 44392	From: Deenerz@aol.com	Date: 11/10/2009
Subject: Re: Question about eating snails

We usually waited for the first alcoho.... um person to pass out then wrote a note on their forehead LOOF. -----Original Message----- From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@...> To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Tue, Nov 10, 2009 8:31 pm Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Question about eating snail Are you sure that wasn't a DERF shirt http://www.zazzle.com/derf_tshirt-235652671296243847 and you were just looking in the mirror? This one even comes with your picture on it. ;-) Kind of like them people who have REKCUS written on their foreheads. ;-) Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Steve Szabo Sent: Tuesday, November 10, 2009 10:08 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Question about eating snails Amber, No, I don't have to. Some of the shirts come with names already on them. That one happened to be Fred. He had his name embroidered right over his left pocket. They are hard to come by. I've only seen them at Sallie's. \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Amber Berglund Sent: Tuesday, November 10, 2009 9:20 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Question about eating snails Actually no, but that one looks good ;) LOL Wait... you name your shirts? What's your favorite shirt named right now? LOL Amber Steve Szabo wrote: > > Ws this the recipe? > > ESCARGOTS A LA FETTUCCINI > > 24 (7 1/2 oz. can) very lg. sized escargots, drained > 4 tbsp. butter > 1-2 garlic cloves, minced > 1/2 pt. heavy cream > 1/2 c. grated Parmesan cheese > 1 pkg. frozen peas > Salt and pepper > 1 lb. fettuccini > > Drain escargots, melt butter in heavy saucepan and sauté escargot and > garlic for 3 minutes. Pour in heavy cream and simmer until mixture > thickens slightly. Add grated cheese, peas and seasonings. Cook a few > minutes longer until escargots and sauce are hot. Do not overcook. > > While sauce is cooking place fettuccini in a pot of boiling (salted) > water. > Cook 3-4 minutes. Drain pasta and mix with escargots sauce until pasta > is well coated. > > I once had a shirt named Fred. > > \\Steve// > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On Behalf Of Amber Berglund > Sent: Tuesday, November 10, 2009 5:17 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Question about eating snails > > Actually if you look on applesnail.net they list recipe's for eating > your snails, LOL. > And do dead snails even have guts? LOL. > There are 3 drivers (for now, soon to be 4 hopefully), so they'll have > to narrow it down by names, so I'll have to wear a name tag that says, > "Hello my name is Fred" or something, LOL. > > Amber > > Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > > > > Ummmm.. you (or rather your friend) shouldn't do this. Most dechlor > > products EXPLICITLY advise against eating ornamental fish (and > > probably critters too) that are kept in waters treated with a > > dechlor product. I think the chemicals used in dechlors cause health > > problems, although I doubt that five snails would matter. I think > > it's more for fish farms that > might > > think about using Sodium Thiosulphate as their dechlor if they did > > not have a natural water source for the fish stock ponds. > > > > As far as the different taste, could it be like other meats... > chicken for > > example, where the dark meat is much different in taste and texture > > than white meat? > > > > Also, for your health, please do not post this on the Applesnail.net > > forums.. you know them folks are zealous about their snails. They > > might hunt you down and throw dead snail guts on you. LOL They might > > even > form a > > new radical group called PeTS... People for the Ethical Treatment of > > Snails. > > LOL And if they can't find you, they might go after every other > > delivery truck on your island. BTW... are you the only driver or is > > Ketchikan big enough for two FedEx trucks? LOL > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>> > > (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the > > right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by > > Year, > Month) > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On Behalf Of Amber Berglund > > Sent: Tuesday, November 10, 2009 10:59 AM > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > Subject: [AquaticLife] Question about eating snails > > > > Okay so a friend of mine was inquiring about my mystery snails for > eating > > purposes. Since I have a mass quantity of the happy little guys and > gals I > > figured I would give him all my large snails that are fully grown. > > He ended up with 5 and cooked them up as spaghetti. Now my question > > is this; why would the dark footed (purple) mystery snails taste > > much saltier > than the > > ones with white feet? > > > > Sorry to offend anyone at the idea of eating snails, I've had to do > > a survival trip in my lifetime and had to survive off of limpets, so > > I'm sure they taste similar to limpets when cooked up, so it doesn't > > really > offend > > me, LOL. > > Not to mention the little guys are threatening to breed me out of > > house and home ;) LOL. > > > > Amber > > > > ------------------------------------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the home page. Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com to receive the digest, which includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com for the No E-Mail option where you will still be able to read messages on the group and post replies. Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com to receive individual e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links ------------------------------------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the home page. Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com to receive the digest, which includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com for the No E-Mail option where you will still be able to read messages on the group and post replies. Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com to receive individual e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 44393	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 11/10/2009
Subject: Re: wisteria/lighting previous question/response revisited

Bill, you got it right! The T numbers represent the diameter of the bulb in 1/8" increments. A T4 is a bulb 1/2" in diameter, T5 is 5/8", t8 is 1" and a t12 is 1 1/2". As I recall, the F is the wattage of the bulb. Lumens, not usually stated on the bulb is the actual amount of light coming from the bulb. It really does not have anything to do with watts, though more watts will give you more lumens, but, also the phosphors used in the bulb affect the amount of lumen output. Lumens and lux are often used interchangeably, but they are really different measurements. Lux is the measure of illumination over a given area. It may actually be more important to aquarists raising plants than the lumen output. Lux is what is measured by a light meter, for anyone who happens to know what they are--not often seen with today's cameras and photographers. Color temperature is important. Average daylight (except may in Amber's area where they have 6 months of darkness) has a color temperature of 5500-6000. An overcast day can have a color temperature of 6500. As mentioned earlier, plants need light in two color spectrums, and, actually they are rather narrow spans of wavelengths they benefit from. I thought I had a bookmark explaining this, but I can't find it quickly (over 400K of bookmarks, and things have a tendency to get lost), however, some judicial Googling will gain you the information. \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of bill 1433 Sent: Tuesday, November 10, 2009 10:20 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: wisteria/lighting previous question/response revisited Yes, Amber   It was I, looking for the original information and also looked back on \\Steve//'s post at group to try and find. Ray had mentioned all this the other day saying that he thought the posting came from \\Steve//.   I was not successful in my search.  Also, for me the most important part was a link to a chart which showed you exactly, or explained exactly the "T" factor stands for.  For instance, T-4 would be a tube that is a half inch wide, or close to it-----------I think.  All this is my own fault.  In my interest to acquire and learn about lighting,I went through and studied the applied links but being ol'bill, I never bookmarked them.  Then to further compound the problem, I deleted the original message that it came from.  In hind-sight you could probably chalk this all up to felonious stupidity on my part.   Bill---where its always a good day if I learn something new! --- On Tue, 11/10/09, Amber Berglund <arberglund@...> wrote: From: Amber Berglund <arberglund@...> Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: wisteria/lighting previous question/response revisited To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Date: Tuesday, November 10, 2009, 9:30 PM I believe it was Steve who posted a link about lumens months back when (I think it was maybe Bill asking) about lighting for planted aquariums. Plants require 2 different spectrums of light to properly produce either leaves or flowers (red is more for flower production and blue is more for growth, but for the best growing you want a mixture of BOTH colors). So in reality you would want a light that appears more brown/reddish in coloring and a blue/white coloring as well, but they now have bulbs that have BOTH spectrums built in (I'm sure they don't work as well as it would to have 2 different bulbs one mostly red and the other mostly blue on the color spectrum). Let me see if I still have the link bookmarked. What I was trying to say is that Kelvin does not tell you what color spectrum the light REALLY is, it's actually measuring it's light output color according to how the human eyes perceive it. So 6500 kelvin in general is what most plants will prefer because that is a mixture of both red and blue spectrums (In MOST bulbs) unfortunately not all light bulb manufactures have to use the exact same chart for their colors, so they will have different colors than another bulb that says it's 6500 Kelvin. what you really need to read is the color chart on the box, not what lumens it says it is. (still searching for link, LOL). This isn't the right link but it discusses the kelvin/lumen problems a little bit, still looking for the link that showed the charts and what to look for in the color charts. http://www.americanaquariumproducts.com/Aquarium_Lighting.html Will post again when I find the other link with chart examples. Amber Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > > I think it would be false advertising or possibly mis-advertising (if they > do not know any better) if a company lists their bulbs as 6500K and they > aren't. The Kelvin scale, just like Watts and Lumens, are ALL > universal and > scientifically measurable scales BUT, as I showed below, not all 40 watt > bulbs put out the same amount of light (lumens) or in the same color > spectrum (Kelvin rating). All 40 watt bulbs, whether incandescent, > fluorescent, CFL, LED, Halogen, etc.... ALL use only/around 40 watts of > electricity but their light output can vary dramatically. This is why > fluorescent bulbs are so much more efficient than incandescent bulbs and > CFL's are even more efficient... as a 40W fluorescent bulb puts out a LOT > more light (lumens) than a 40 watt incandescent bulb and a 40W CFL > puts out > more light (lumens) than a 40W fluorescent bulb. This is why the OLD > "Watts > Per Gallon" rule simply does not work any more. > > BUT.. if three different companies are selling standard T-10 fluorescent > bulbs with the same exact rating of 40W, 3550 lumens and 6500K > rating... all > three of those bulbs should be VERY SIMILAR if not identical in the > way they > appear to our eyes (subject to our own degree of color blindness, of > course!) > > In the past, things like "soft white", "warm white", "daylight", "plant > grow", etc., type terms were used and are still used but those are just > simple words (not subject to a scientific scale) to describe the Kelvin > rating ranges but lumens are just as important since a bulb could have a > 6500K rating with only 2200 lumens where another bulb could have a 6500K > rating and 3550 or 3700 lumens and that bulb would put out over 50% more > light (lumens) in the same color spectrum (Kelvin rating) so it would be a > much more cost effective bulb if it cost the same amount or only a little > more. > > I'm slightly confused about the "red and blue light for your plants" as > those two colors are on opposite ends of the Kelvin Scale with reds and > ambers in the lower numbers and greens and blues in the higher numbers. I > think this is why you would want a mid-range (5000K to 6500K) bulb as > those > are generally considered "full spectrum" or "daylight" bulbs. Here's a > color picture of the Kelvin Scale, > http://www.bltdirect.com/images/colour-temperature.jpg > <http://www.bltdirect.com/images/colour-temperature.jpg> and you can > visually > see that the 5000K to 6500K range is all about the same "color". I think > this is also why Actinic bulbs are usually higher and closer to the 10000K > range and up... apparently, the Kelvin lighting scale can go up to 20,000K > (according to this article about Reef Tanks > http://nh.craigslist.org/for/1423072406.html > <http://nh.craigslist.org/for/1423072406.html> on, of all places, > Craigslist). > Here is the page that that the above photo link came from and it has a > chart > that also explains things a little more also and talks about the CRI, yet > another lighting term (Color Rendition Index). > http://www.bltdirect.com/lampColourTemperatures.php > <http://www.bltdirect.com/lampColourTemperatures.php> > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right > side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On > Behalf Of Amber Berglund > Sent: Tuesday, November 10, 2009 4:22 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: wisteria/lighting previous > question/response > revisited > > Another thing to consider is one light company's 6500 kelvin rating > may not > be identical to another light bulb from a different company that's > rated the > same. The important thing to look at is the color chart they show on the > boxes, you want more red and blue light for your plants, green is not > useful > or harmful as the plants reflect the light back (makes them appear more > green but does nothing else for them). The kelvin rating is based on our > eyes and how they perceive color, so each company doesn't have to be > identical, perhaps some day they will have a universal way to measure > light > spectrums on bulbs that is much less confusing. > > Amber > > Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > > > > OK. So you have a total of 80 watts right now, which is just over 1 > > WPG, which means you only have enough lighting for low-light, easy to > > grow plants. See my blog article "Planted Tank: So You Want A Planted > > Tank" for links to lists of low-light, easy to grow plants that will > > do OK in your tank. You should replace those tubes at least yearly... > > although some say every six months. As far as I know, a 40W bulb is > > the highest wattage made for this type of bulb/fixture right now but > > you can increase your lighting > > (lumens) and K (Kelvin) rating. See below. > > > > NOTE - below links are for example/informational purposes only, as I > > know nothing about the sites. God... did I just say that? Do I really > > have to add disclaimers to my posts now? LOL Just laughing at myself. > > LOL > > > > This may be your Sylvania bulb... > > http://www.lightbulbemporium.com/proddetail.asp?prod=F40/EX50 > <http://www.lightbulbemporium.com/proddetail.asp?prod=F40/EX50> > > <http://www.lightbulbemporium.com/proddetail.asp?prod=F40/EX50 > <http://www.lightbulbemporium.com/proddetail.asp?prod=F40/EX50>> and if > > it is, then it's the same ratings as the specs in the T-10 bulb that I > > copy/pasted below, which is a pretty good bulb with higher lumens and > > the higher K rating, although not a 6500K rated bulb. At the bottom of > > this page, there was a link to this bulb... > > > http://www.lightbulbemporium.com/maxlite_51204_ml_f40t10_850_rscg.asp > <http://www.lightbulbemporium.com/maxlite_51204_ml_f40t10_850_rscg.asp> > > > <http://www.lightbulbemporium.com/maxlite_51204_ml_f40t10_850_rscg.asp > <http://www.lightbulbemporium.com/maxlite_51204_ml_f40t10_850_rscg.asp> > > > > > which > > has an even higher lumen rating of 3700, although not much higher than > > the 3550 rating but every little bit helps especially since the > > MaxLite bulb was a lower price than the Sylvania bulb. > > > > As you will see on this page > > > http://www.lightbulbsdirect.com/Merchant2/merchant.mvc?page=001/CTGY/F > <http://www.lightbulbsdirect.com/Merchant2/merchant.mvc?page=001/CTGY/F> > > S+Fluo > > > <http://www.lightbulbsdirect.com/Merchant2/merchant.mvc?page=001/CTGY/ > <http://www.lightbulbsdirect.com/Merchant2/merchant.mvc?page=001/CTGY/> > > FS+Fluo> > > rescent > > > > The second bulb down would be similar to yours, except we do not know > > the lumen or color spectrum rating on your bulb, unless that link I > > gave above is actually your bulb and then it would be the same as this > > one. The specs on it are: > > > > T-10 Fluorescent > > 40 Watts > > Length: 48" > > Medium Bi-Pin Base > > Color: 5000K Temperature > > Initial Lumens: 3550 > > CRI: 84 > > Average Life: 20,000 Hours > > > > The Color spectrum of 5000K (Kelvin) is OK but 6500K would be much > better. > > The Lumens of 3550 is the actual amount of *light* > > > > The next bulb down from that one is a T-12, which will also fit in > > your fixture but they are bigger diameter bulbs and this one actually > > puts out less light (lumens). Here are the specs: > > > > T-12 Fluorescent > > 40 Watts > > Length: 48" > > Base: Medium Bi-Pin Base > > Initial Lumens: 2200 > > Average Life: 20,000 Hours > > Color Temperature: 5000K > > CRI: 92 > > > > It has the same Color spectrum but only 2200 lumens so the above T-10 > > bulb has around 50% more lumens (light) coming out of it. > > > > Now, if you scroll down to the second from the bottom on the page, > > you'll see the Verilux Instant-Sun T-12 bulb which has a higher Kelvin > > rating but it doesn't list the lumens so this needs to be checked out > > further. While the higher K rating is good, if it goes back down to > > only 2200 lumens, instead of the 3550 lumens of the first referenced > > bulb above, then I would probably go with the 3550 lumens, 5000K bulb > > over the 6280K bulb if the lumens were a LOT less. > > > > (START SNIP) > > Engineered to reproduce all the colors and balance of natural light, > > VeriluxR full spectrum fluorescent tubes feature Trucolite Phosphor > > TechnologyT which includes the use of a stable, custom blend of earth > > phosphors that create bright, balanced full spectrum light. > > T-12 Fluorescent > > 40 Watts > > Length: 48" > > Color Temperature: 6280K > > CRI: 94 > > Medium Bi-Pin Base > > (END SNIP) > > > > So, as you can see, there's a few things to look for when shopping for > > new replacement bulbs. Look for the 5000K to 6500K bulbs with the > > higher lumen rating for the dollar and you should be good. Note that a > > 3550 or 3700 lumen bulb will put out nearly twice as much light as a > > 2000 lumen bulb so it can be easy to increase your lighting without > > increasing the wattage. DO NOT try to use HO or VHO bulbs... which > > look similar but have much higher wattage, well over the 40W bulbs you > > now have. These other HO and VHO bulbs have different pin arrangements > > so they will not fit in your fixture anyhow but I just wanted to save > > you a trip. > > > > Last but not least, if you're handy, you could even take the bulbs out > > of your fixtures and line the insides of your fixtures with nice and > > crisp and flat aluminum foil (shiny side exposed) which will also > > help. Using double stick tape and then carefully applying the foil so > > it does not wrinkle too much will work well... especially if the > > inside of your fixture is black. A white reflector is good but a > > mirrored reflector, like that created by the shiny side of foil, is > > MUCH better than a black reflector. Most black fixtures do at least > > have white reflector areas. > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>> > (Links to any articles referenced in > > above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels > > and also under Archives by Year, Month) > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On Behalf Of erikaandnewton > > Sent: Tuesday, November 10, 2009 10:17 AM > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: wisteria/lighting previous > > question/response revisited > > > > << When you say "two strips" do you have two 4' long two-bulb fixtures > > already or something else?>> > > > > i have two 4' single bulb strip lights. > > > > >> What kind of lighting do you currently have? Look at the bulbs and > > >> there should be some kind of writing on one of the ends. Give us > > >> that info if you cannot decipher it yourself.<< > > > > one bulb is a f40 t10 > > the other one is a sylvania daylight bulb also f40 > > > > >> It's probably 21" tall, since a common measurement for a 75G is > > >> 48"x18"x21" Tall.>> > > > > it is 21 inches tall > > > > erika wilmington de usa > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 44394	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 11/10/2009
Subject: Re: wisteria/lighting previous question/response revisited

Bookmarks and Favorites are filing systems... if you don't know how/where it's filed, you won't find it anyhow. I have an extensive Favorites folder with dozens of primary folders and then dozens if not hundreds of sub-folders and sub-sub-folders, for example, under Favorites, I have 59 primary folders and one of them is called Aquarium Sites, then, in that folder, I have 44 alphabetized sub-folders just in that folder, from Additives and Algae to Tutorials-Quizzes and UGF Filters (no V,W,X,Y,Z sub-folders under Aquarium... not sure why not). Then in the Algae folder, I have 7 sub-sub-folders dealing with topics such as Algae Eaters, Allelopathic Control, Diatoms-Brown Algae, Hair Algae, Hydrogen Peroxide, Pond Algae, SeaChem Flourish Excel For Treating Algae and then 11 other favorites about Algae in general, for a total of 48 links, just about Algae. My Favorites folder, when looking at its Properties, is 1.41MB in size and consists of 2,057 files (links) and 306 folders (incl. sub and sub-sub folders) in totality. Many years of surfing and saving and starting off with an organizational plan from the start makes it easy for me to navigate and find things easily. My Favorites is like a mini-Google. ;-) I have been toying around with the idea of using a web resource to keep my Favorites folder online so I can sync it with all of my computers and/or just use it as an online Favorites folder that I can log into from any computer. For now, I use LogMeIn (Free) to connect to my main computer from my laptop when I'm out in the streets playing... oops.. I meant working. But I don't think I'd share my Favorites or then I'd have to go in and edit out all my favorite porn links... well, maybe not for Bill. LOL Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Amber Berglund Sent: Tuesday, November 10, 2009 10:25 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: wisteria/lighting previous question/response revisited No worries Bill, I do the same thing, maybe Lenny will be so kind as to send us all his bookmarks? LOL Amber bill 1433 wrote: > > Yes, Amber > > It was I, looking for the original information and also looked back on > \\Steve//'s post at group to try and find. Ray had mentioned all this > the other day saying that he thought the posting came from \\Steve//. > > I was not successful in my search. Also, for me the most important > part was a link to a chart which showed you exactly, or explained > exactly the "T" factor stands for. For instance, T-4 would be a tube > that is a half inch wide, or close to it-----------I think. All this > is my own fault. In my interest to acquire and learn about lighting,I > went through and studied the applied links but being ol'bill, I never > bookmarked them. Then to further compound the problem, I deleted the > original message that it came from. In hind-sight you could probably > chalk this all up to felonious stupidity on my part. > > Bill---where its always a good day if I learn something new! > > --- On Tue, 11/10/09, Amber Berglund <arberglund@... > <mailto:arberglund%40gmail.com>> wrote: > > From: Amber Berglund <arberglund@... > <mailto:arberglund%40gmail.com>> > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: wisteria/lighting previous > question/response revisited > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Date: Tuesday, November 10, 2009, 9:30 PM > > I believe it was Steve who posted a link about lumens months back when > (I think it was maybe Bill asking) about lighting for planted aquariums. > Plants require 2 different spectrums of light to properly produce > either leaves or flowers (red is more for flower production and blue > is more for growth, but for the best growing you want a mixture of BOTH colors). > So in reality you would want a light that appears more brown/reddish > in coloring and a blue/white coloring as well, but they now have bulbs > that have BOTH spectrums built in (I'm sure they don't work as well as > it would to have 2 different bulbs one mostly red and the other mostly > blue on the color spectrum). > Let me see if I still have the link bookmarked. > What I was trying to say is that Kelvin does not tell you what color > spectrum the light REALLY is, it's actually measuring it's light > output color according to how the human eyes perceive it. So 6500 > kelvin in general is what most plants will prefer because that is a > mixture of both red and blue spectrums (In MOST bulbs) unfortunately > not all light bulb manufactures have to use the exact same chart for > their colors, so they will have different colors than another bulb > that says it's 6500 Kelvin. what you really need to read is the color > chart on the box, not what lumens it says it is. > (still searching for link, LOL). > > This isn't the right link but it discusses the kelvin/lumen problems a > little bit, still looking for the link that showed the charts and what > to look for in the color charts. > http://www.americanaquariumproducts.com/Aquarium_Lighting.html > <http://www.americanaquariumproducts.com/Aquarium_Lighting.html> > > Will post again when I find the other link with chart examples. > > Amber > > Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > > > > I think it would be false advertising or possibly mis-advertising > (if they > > do not know any better) if a company lists their bulbs as 6500K and > > they aren't. The Kelvin scale, just like Watts and Lumens, are ALL > > universal and scientifically measurable scales BUT, as I showed > > below, not all 40 watt bulbs put out the same amount of light > > (lumens) or in the same color spectrum (Kelvin rating). All 40 watt > > bulbs, whether incandescent, fluorescent, CFL, LED, Halogen, etc.... > > ALL use only/around 40 watts of electricity but their light output > > can vary dramatically. This is why fluorescent bulbs are so much > > more efficient than incandescent bulbs and CFL's are even more > > efficient... as a 40W fluorescent bulb puts out > a LOT > > more light (lumens) than a 40 watt incandescent bulb and a 40W CFL > > puts out more light (lumens) than a 40W fluorescent bulb. This is > > why the OLD "Watts Per Gallon" rule simply does not work any more. > > > > BUT.. if three different companies are selling standard T-10 > > fluorescent bulbs with the same exact rating of 40W, 3550 lumens and > > 6500K rating... all three of those bulbs should be VERY SIMILAR if > > not identical in the way they appear to our eyes (subject to our own > > degree of color blindness, of > > course!) > > > > In the past, things like "soft white", "warm white", "daylight", > > "plant grow", etc., type terms were used and are still used but > > those are just simple words (not subject to a scientific scale) to > > describe the Kelvin rating ranges but lumens are just as important > > since a bulb could have a 6500K rating with only 2200 lumens where > > another bulb could have a 6500K rating and 3550 or 3700 lumens and > > that bulb would put out over 50% more light (lumens) in the same > > color spectrum (Kelvin rating) so it > would be a > > much more cost effective bulb if it cost the same amount or only a > little > > more. > > > > I'm slightly confused about the "red and blue light for your plants" > > as those two colors are on opposite ends of the Kelvin Scale with > > reds and ambers in the lower numbers and greens and blues in the > > higher > numbers. I > > think this is why you would want a mid-range (5000K to 6500K) bulb > > as those are generally considered "full spectrum" or "daylight" > > bulbs. Here's a color picture of the Kelvin Scale, > > http://www.bltdirect.com/images/colour-temperature.jpg > <http://www.bltdirect.com/images/colour-temperature.jpg> > > <http://www.bltdirect.com/images/colour-temperature.jpg > <http://www.bltdirect.com/images/colour-temperature.jpg>> and you can > > visually > > see that the 5000K to 6500K range is all about the same "color". I > > think this is also why Actinic bulbs are usually higher and closer > > to the > 10000K > > range and up... apparently, the Kelvin lighting scale can go up to > 20,000K > > (according to this article about Reef Tanks > > http://nh.craigslist.org/for/1423072406.html > <http://nh.craigslist.org/for/1423072406.html> > > <http://nh.craigslist.org/for/1423072406.html > <http://nh.craigslist.org/for/1423072406.html>> on, of all places, > > Craigslist). > > Here is the page that that the above photo link came from and it has > > a chart that also explains things a little more also and talks about > > the > CRI, yet > > another lighting term (Color Rendition Index). > > http://www.bltdirect.com/lampColourTemperatures.php > <http://www.bltdirect.com/lampColourTemperatures.php> > > <http://www.bltdirect.com/lampColourTemperatures.php > <http://www.bltdirect.com/lampColourTemperatures.php>> > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>> > > (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the > > right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by > > Year, > Month) > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On Behalf Of Amber Berglund > > Sent: Tuesday, November 10, 2009 4:22 PM > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: wisteria/lighting previous > > question/response revisited > > > > Another thing to consider is one light company's 6500 kelvin rating > > may not be identical to another light bulb from a different company > > that's rated the same. The important thing to look at is the color > > chart they show on the boxes, you want more red and blue light for > > your plants, green is not useful or harmful as the plants reflect > > the light back (makes them appear more green but does nothing else > > for them). The kelvin rating is based on our eyes and how they > > perceive color, so each company doesn't have to be identical, > > perhaps some day they will have a universal way to measure light > > spectrums on bulbs that is much less confusing. > > > > Amber > > > > Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > > > > > > OK. So you have a total of 80 watts right now, which is just over > > > 1 WPG, which means you only have enough lighting for low-light, > > > easy to grow plants. See my blog article "Planted Tank: So You > > > Want A Planted Tank" for links to lists of low-light, easy to grow > > > plants that will do OK in your tank. You should replace those tubes at least yearly... > > > although some say every six months. As far as I know, a 40W bulb > > > is the highest wattage made for this type of bulb/fixture right > > > now but you can increase your lighting > > > (lumens) and K (Kelvin) rating. See below. > > > > > > NOTE - below links are for example/informational purposes only, as > > > I know nothing about the sites. God... did I just say that? Do I > > > really have to add disclaimers to my posts now? LOL Just laughing at myself. > > > LOL > > > > > > This may be your Sylvania bulb... > > > http://www.lightbulbemporium.com/proddetail.asp?prod=F40/EX50 > <http://www.lightbulbemporium.com/proddetail.asp?prod=F40/EX50> > > <http://www.lightbulbemporium.com/proddetail.asp?prod=F40/EX50 > <http://www.lightbulbemporium.com/proddetail.asp?prod=F40/EX50>> > > > <http://www.lightbulbemporium.com/proddetail.asp?prod=F40/EX50 > <http://www.lightbulbemporium.com/proddetail.asp?prod=F40/EX50> > > <http://www.lightbulbemporium.com/proddetail.asp?prod=F40/EX50 > <http://www.lightbulbemporium.com/proddetail.asp?prod=F40/EX50>>> and > if > > > it is, then it's the same ratings as the specs in the T-10 bulb > > > that I copy/pasted below, which is a pretty good bulb with higher > > > lumens and the higher K rating, although not a 6500K rated bulb. > > > At the bottom of this page, there was a link to this bulb... > > > > > > http://www.lightbulbemporium.com/maxlite_51204_ml_f40t10_850_rscg.asp > <http://www.lightbulbemporium.com/maxlite_51204_ml_f40t10_850_rscg.asp > > > > > <http://www.lightbulbemporium.com/maxlite_51204_ml_f40t10_850_rscg.asp > <http://www.lightbulbemporium.com/maxlite_51204_ml_f40t10_850_rscg.asp > >> > > > > > > <http://www.lightbulbemporium.com/maxlite_51204_ml_f40t10_850_rscg.asp > <http://www.lightbulbemporium.com/maxlite_51204_ml_f40t10_850_rscg.asp > > > > > <http://www.lightbulbemporium.com/maxlite_51204_ml_f40t10_850_rscg.asp > <http://www.lightbulbemporium.com/maxlite_51204_ml_f40t10_850_rscg.asp > >> > > > > > > > which > > > has an even higher lumen rating of 3700, although not much higher > > > than the 3550 rating but every little bit helps especially since > > > the MaxLite bulb was a lower price than the Sylvania bulb. > > > > > > As you will see on this page > > > > > > http://www.lightbulbsdirect.com/Merchant2/merchant.mvc?page=001/CTGY/F > <http://www.lightbulbsdirect.com/Merchant2/merchant.mvc?page=001/CTGY/ > F> > > > <http://www.lightbulbsdirect.com/Merchant2/merchant.mvc?page=001/CTGY/ > F > <http://www.lightbulbsdirect.com/Merchant2/merchant.mvc?page=001/CTGY/ > F>> > > > S+Fluo > > > > > > <http://www.lightbulbsdirect.com/Merchant2/merchant.mvc?page=001/CTGY/ > <http://www.lightbulbsdirect.com/Merchant2/merchant.mvc?page=001/CTGY/ > > > > > <http://www.lightbulbsdirect.com/Merchant2/merchant.mvc?page=001/CTGY/ > <http://www.lightbulbsdirect.com/Merchant2/merchant.mvc?page=001/CTGY/ > >> > > > FS+Fluo> > > > rescent > > > > > > The second bulb down would be similar to yours, except we do not > > > know the lumen or color spectrum rating on your bulb, unless that > > > link I gave above is actually your bulb and then it would be the > > > same as this one. The specs on it are: > > > > > > T-10 Fluorescent > > > 40 Watts > > > Length: 48" > > > Medium Bi-Pin Base > > > Color: 5000K Temperature > > > Initial Lumens: 3550 > > > CRI: 84 > > > Average Life: 20,000 Hours > > > > > > The Color spectrum of 5000K (Kelvin) is OK but 6500K would be much > > better. > > > The Lumens of 3550 is the actual amount of *light* > > > > > > The next bulb down from that one is a T-12, which will also fit in > > > your fixture but they are bigger diameter bulbs and this one > > > actually puts out less light (lumens). Here are the specs: > > > > > > T-12 Fluorescent > > > 40 Watts > > > Length: 48" > > > Base: Medium Bi-Pin Base > > > Initial Lumens: 2200 > > > Average Life: 20,000 Hours > > > Color Temperature: 5000K > > > CRI: 92 > > > > > > It has the same Color spectrum but only 2200 lumens so the above > > > T-10 bulb has around 50% more lumens (light) coming out of it. > > > > > > Now, if you scroll down to the second from the bottom on the page, > > > you'll see the Verilux Instant-Sun T-12 bulb which has a higher > > > Kelvin rating but it doesn't list the lumens so this needs to be > > > checked out further. While the higher K rating is good, if it goes > > > back down to only 2200 lumens, instead of the 3550 lumens of the > > > first referenced bulb above, then I would probably go with the > > > 3550 lumens, 5000K bulb over the 6280K bulb if the lumens were a LOT less. > > > > > > (START SNIP) > > > Engineered to reproduce all the colors and balance of natural > > > light, VeriluxR full spectrum fluorescent tubes feature Trucolite > > > Phosphor TechnologyT which includes the use of a stable, custom > > > blend of earth phosphors that create bright, balanced full spectrum light. > > > T-12 Fluorescent > > > 40 Watts > > > Length: 48" > > > Color Temperature: 6280K > > > CRI: 94 > > > Medium Bi-Pin Base > > > (END SNIP) > > > > > > So, as you can see, there's a few things to look for when shopping > > > for new replacement bulbs. Look for the 5000K to 6500K bulbs with > > > the higher lumen rating for the dollar and you should be good. > > > Note that a 3550 or 3700 lumen bulb will put out nearly twice as > > > much light as a 2000 lumen bulb so it can be easy to increase your > > > lighting without increasing the wattage. DO NOT try to use HO or > > > VHO bulbs... which look similar but have much higher wattage, well > > > over the 40W bulbs you now have. These other HO and VHO bulbs have > > > different pin arrangements so they will not fit in your fixture > > > anyhow but I just wanted to save you a trip. > > > > > > Last but not least, if you're handy, you could even take the bulbs > > > out of your fixtures and line the insides of your fixtures with > > > nice and crisp and flat aluminum foil (shiny side exposed) which > > > will also help. Using double stick tape and then carefully > > > applying the foil so it does not wrinkle too much will work > > > well... especially if the inside of your fixture is black. A white > > > reflector is good but a mirrored reflector, like that created by > > > the shiny side of foil, is MUCH better than a black reflector. > > > Most black fixtures do at least have white reflector areas. > > > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>> > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>>> > > (Links to any articles referenced in > > > above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under > > > Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On Behalf Of > > > erikaandnewton > > > Sent: Tuesday, November 10, 2009 10:17 AM > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: wisteria/lighting previous > > > question/response revisited > > > > > > << When you say "two strips" do you have two 4' long two-bulb > > > fixtures already or something else?>> > > > > > > i have two 4' single bulb strip lights. > > > > > > >> What kind of lighting do you currently have? Look at the bulbs > > > >> and there should be some kind of writing on one of the ends. > > > >> Give us that info if you cannot decipher it yourself.<< > > > > > > one bulb is a f40 t10 > > > the other one is a sylvania daylight bulb also f40 > > > > > > >> It's probably 21" tall, since a common measurement for a 75G is > > > >> 48"x18"x21" Tall.>> > > > > > > it is 21 inches tall > > > > > > erika wilmington de usa

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 44395	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 11/10/2009
Subject: Re: [Bulk] RE: [AquaticLife] Wow! Aquarium Accident

Yeah, all you guys have to do is put on a heated diving suit, open a hole in the ice and jump in. Much better than looking at them from the outside, isn't it? \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Amber Berglund Sent: Tuesday, November 10, 2009 11:27 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [Bulk] RE: [AquaticLife] Wow! Aquarium Accident Unless your Amber and live on an island in Alaska. LOL. The biggest aquarium display we ever had was about 500 gallons and it was a saltwater display at a local seafood seller (fresh seafood), but unfortunately they took it down at some point years ago and put it in someone's backyard where it ended up cracked. I think it's still sitting in their backyard, only been, oh.. 10 years? LOL. Amber Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > > Dora, > > They can go pay admission to the usually, already, tax-payer subsidized > GIANT public aquariums that already exist in so many cities... or they can > go to one of the MANY restaurants that have BIG aquariums and see the > aquarium for free... many, many in most cities. > > We use to have a restaurant/bar down here called Sharky's Reef that had a > HUGE shark aquarium, probably in the 50,000G range, with about a dozen > sharks and it had free entrance during the day to the restaurant... > although > at night, when it became a club, there was a cover charge to us guys > looking > to chum the waters and catch something. > > Landry's Restaurants is a BIG chain of theme restaurants > http://www.landrysrestaurants.com/pages/restaurants/pg_restaurants.htm > <http://www.landrysrestaurants.com/pages/restaurants/pg_restaurants.htm> > and > many of them are set around a HUGE aquarium or other water-type theme.... > like a rain forest, etc. > > Last but not least, they can go see all the aquariums they want by > visiting > local fish stores (LFS) and big-box pet stores... at no cost to us > tax-payers. > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right > side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On > Behalf Of Dora Smith > Sent: Tuesday, November 10, 2009 8:53 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Subject: Re: [Bulk] RE: [AquaticLife] Wow! Aquarium Accident > > We like to see aquariums - why shouldn't the public? > > Yours, > Dora Smith > Austin, TX > tiggernut24@... <mailto:tiggernut24%40yahoo.com> > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@... > <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com>> > To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>> > Sent: Tuesday, November 10, 2009 8:09 PM > Subject: [Bulk] RE: [AquaticLife] Wow! Aquarium Accident > > I hope she has more than 10/20/10 insurance. :-O > > Poor fish... 90% died that day.... but even worse, poor taxpayers for the > airport (a government agency) spending $200,000.00 on a stupid art > project... a 1,500G tank that a private entity/person could have probably > set up for a fraction of that cost. > > GlassCages.com sells 500G acrylic tanks for $2,200 so I'm sure a 1,500G > would be in the $10,000.00 PLUS range, just for the tank, but still... > $200.000.00????? Of course, building it outside, instead of inside, also > means a LOT more money spent on temperature control but if it had been > built > inside, it would have cost a LOT less and it might also still be around > today... and it would have saved hundreds of thousands of tax-payer > dollars > over the past 10 years. > > Here's the original story on TampaBay.com, with more info and a picture. > http://www.tampabay.com/news/publicsafety/accidents/woman-with-boy-in-lap-pl > <http://www.tampabay.com/news/publicsafety/accidents/woman-with-boy-in-lap-p l> > ows-truck-into-tia-wall-destroying-aquarium/1050673 > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right > side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On > Behalf Of Donna Ransome > Sent: Tuesday, November 10, 2009 6:42 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Subject: [AquaticLife] Wow! Aquarium Accident > > http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/33831758/ns/us_news-weird_news/?GT1=43001 > <http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/33831758/ns/us_news-weird_news/?GT1=43001> >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 44396	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 11/10/2009
Subject: Re: [Bulk] RE: [AquaticLife] Wow! Aquarium Accident

Well, that's why I threw in the "Last but not least" catch-all paragraph. ;-) And if you don't have an LFS or other pet store with fish tanks... go here... http://www.montereybayaquarium.org/efc/cam_menu.aspx and look at live webcams (7AM-7PM PT) of the various aquariums and exhibits. Best viewed during feeding times. Speaking of which, did anyone else see the Lions get that baby deer *almost-a-meal* at The National Zoo in Washington, D.C... Story - http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/worldnews/article-1226468/The-moment-baby-de er-leaps-lion-enclosure-zoo--manages-escape.html with 14-part Video on YouTube at the bottom. Them Lions must have felt like a kid in a candy store for a little while. ;-) Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Amber Berglund Sent: Tuesday, November 10, 2009 10:27 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [Bulk] RE: [AquaticLife] Wow! Aquarium Accident Unless your Amber and live on an island in Alaska. LOL. The biggest aquarium display we ever had was about 500 gallons and it was a saltwater display at a local seafood seller (fresh seafood), but unfortunately they took it down at some point years ago and put it in someone's backyard where it ended up cracked. I think it's still sitting in their backyard, only been, oh.. 10 years? LOL. Amber Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > > Dora, > > They can go pay admission to the usually, already, tax-payer > subsidized GIANT public aquariums that already exist in so many > cities... or they can go to one of the MANY restaurants that have BIG > aquariums and see the aquarium for free... many, many in most cities. > > We use to have a restaurant/bar down here called Sharky's Reef that > had a HUGE shark aquarium, probably in the 50,000G range, with about a > dozen sharks and it had free entrance during the day to the restaurant... > although > at night, when it became a club, there was a cover charge to us guys > looking to chum the waters and catch something. > > Landry's Restaurants is a BIG chain of theme restaurants > http://www.landrysrestaurants.com/pages/restaurants/pg_restaurants.htm > <http://www.landrysrestaurants.com/pages/restaurants/pg_restaurants.ht > m> > and > many of them are set around a HUGE aquarium or other water-type theme.... > like a rain forest, etc. > > Last but not least, they can go see all the aquariums they want by > visiting local fish stores (LFS) and big-box pet stores... at no cost > to us tax-payers. > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> (Links to any articles referenced in > above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels > and also under Archives by Year, Month) > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On Behalf Of Dora Smith > Sent: Tuesday, November 10, 2009 8:53 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Subject: Re: [Bulk] RE: [AquaticLife] Wow! Aquarium Accident > > We like to see aquariums - why shouldn't the public? > > Yours, > Dora Smith > Austin, TX > tiggernut24@... <mailto:tiggernut24%40yahoo.com> > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@... > <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com>> > To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>> > Sent: Tuesday, November 10, 2009 8:09 PM > Subject: [Bulk] RE: [AquaticLife] Wow! Aquarium Accident > > I hope she has more than 10/20/10 insurance. :-O > > Poor fish... 90% died that day.... but even worse, poor taxpayers for > the airport (a government agency) spending $200,000.00 on a stupid art > project... a 1,500G tank that a private entity/person could have > probably set up for a fraction of that cost. > > GlassCages.com sells 500G acrylic tanks for $2,200 so I'm sure a > 1,500G would be in the $10,000.00 PLUS range, just for the tank, but still... > $200.000.00????? Of course, building it outside, instead of inside, > also means a LOT more money spent on temperature control but if it had > been built inside, it would have cost a LOT less and it might also > still be around today... and it would have saved hundreds of thousands > of tax-payer dollars over the past 10 years. > > Here's the original story on TampaBay.com, with more info and a picture. > http://www.tampabay.com/news/publicsafety/accidents/woman-with-boy-in- > lap-pl > <http://www.tampabay.com/news/publicsafety/accidents/woman-with-boy-in > -lap-pl> > ows-truck-into-tia-wall-destroying-aquarium/1050673 > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> (Links to any articles referenced in > above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels > and also under Archives by Year, Month) > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On Behalf Of Donna Ransome > Sent: Tuesday, November 10, 2009 6:42 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Subject: [AquaticLife] Wow! Aquarium Accident > > http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/33831758/ns/us_news-weird_news/?GT1=43001 > <http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/33831758/ns/us_news-weird_news/?GT1=43001

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 44397	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 11/10/2009
Subject: Re: wisteria/lighting previous question/response revisited

Lenny, I have a couple of problems. First, I do have a lot of folders and sub folders for things, and try to use them. However, I can also be pressed for time, and just bookmark it, thinking I'll fix it later. Somehow, later comes even later than one would expect, and when it does arrive, I do a bunch, but never finish going through the list. The other problem is that what made sense at the time, may not make sense when I am looking for the bookmark, possible because I a thinking about the topic in a different way than when I bookmarked the site. It is kind of like how one searches the web. If your first key words do not provide what you are looking for, you modify those terms and search again. Same topic, a bit different way of looking at it. Eventually, you will get what you want. What I probably need is a bookmark search engine. For those of you who were born and weaned with Windows, bookmarks is the correct term, not Microsoft's Favorites, though, I must admit, it is possible to have favorite bookmarks. \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Lenny V. aka GoldLenny Sent: Tuesday, November 10, 2009 11:57 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: wisteria/lighting previous question/response revisited Bookmarks and Favorites are filing systems... if you don't know how/where it's filed, you won't find it anyhow. I have an extensive Favorites folder with dozens of primary folders and then dozens if not hundreds of sub-folders and sub-sub-folders, for example, under Favorites, I have 59 primary folders and one of them is called Aquarium Sites, then, in that folder, I have 44 alphabetized sub-folders just in that folder, from Additives and Algae to Tutorials-Quizzes and UGF Filters (no V,W,X,Y,Z sub-folders under Aquarium... not sure why not). Then in the Algae folder, I have 7 sub-sub-folders dealing with topics such as Algae Eaters, Allelopathic Control, Diatoms-Brown Algae, Hair Algae, Hydrogen Peroxide, Pond Algae, SeaChem Flourish Excel For Treating Algae and then 11 other favorites about Algae in general, for a total of 48 links, just about Algae. My Favorites folder, when looking at its Properties, is 1.41MB in size and consists of 2,057 files (links) and 306 folders (incl. sub and sub-sub folders) in totality. Many years of surfing and saving and starting off with an organizational plan from the start makes it easy for me to navigate and find things easily. My Favorites is like a mini-Google. ;-) I have been toying around with the idea of using a web resource to keep my Favorites folder online so I can sync it with all of my computers and/or just use it as an online Favorites folder that I can log into from any computer. For now, I use LogMeIn (Free) to connect to my main computer from my laptop when I'm out in the streets playing... oops.. I meant working. But I don't think I'd share my Favorites or then I'd have to go in and edit out all my favorite porn links... well, maybe not for Bill. LOL Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Amber Berglund Sent: Tuesday, November 10, 2009 10:25 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: wisteria/lighting previous question/response revisited No worries Bill, I do the same thing, maybe Lenny will be so kind as to send us all his bookmarks? LOL Amber bill 1433 wrote: > > Yes, Amber > > It was I, looking for the original information and also looked back on > \\Steve//'s post at group to try and find. Ray had mentioned all this > the other day saying that he thought the posting came from \\Steve//. > > I was not successful in my search. Also, for me the most important > part was a link to a chart which showed you exactly, or explained > exactly the "T" factor stands for. For instance, T-4 would be a tube > that is a half inch wide, or close to it-----------I think. All this > is my own fault. In my interest to acquire and learn about lighting,I > went through and studied the applied links but being ol'bill, I never > bookmarked them. Then to further compound the problem, I deleted the > original message that it came from. In hind-sight you could probably > chalk this all up to felonious stupidity on my part. > > Bill---where its always a good day if I learn something new! > > --- On Tue, 11/10/09, Amber Berglund <arberglund@... > <mailto:arberglund%40gmail.com>> wrote: > > From: Amber Berglund <arberglund@... > <mailto:arberglund%40gmail.com>> > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: wisteria/lighting previous > question/response revisited > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Date: Tuesday, November 10, 2009, 9:30 PM > > I believe it was Steve who posted a link about lumens months back when > (I think it was maybe Bill asking) about lighting for planted aquariums. > Plants require 2 different spectrums of light to properly produce > either leaves or flowers (red is more for flower production and blue > is more for growth, but for the best growing you want a mixture of BOTH colors). > So in reality you would want a light that appears more brown/reddish > in coloring and a blue/white coloring as well, but they now have bulbs > that have BOTH spectrums built in (I'm sure they don't work as well as > it would to have 2 different bulbs one mostly red and the other mostly > blue on the color spectrum). > Let me see if I still have the link bookmarked. > What I was trying to say is that Kelvin does not tell you what color > spectrum the light REALLY is, it's actually measuring it's light > output color according to how the human eyes perceive it. So 6500 > kelvin in general is what most plants will prefer because that is a > mixture of both red and blue spectrums (In MOST bulbs) unfortunately > not all light bulb manufactures have to use the exact same chart for > their colors, so they will have different colors than another bulb > that says it's 6500 Kelvin. what you really need to read is the color > chart on the box, not what lumens it says it is. > (still searching for link, LOL). > > This isn't the right link but it discusses the kelvin/lumen problems a > little bit, still looking for the link that showed the charts and what > to look for in the color charts. > http://www.americanaquariumproducts.com/Aquarium_Lighting.html > <http://www.americanaquariumproducts.com/Aquarium_Lighting.html> > > Will post again when I find the other link with chart examples. > > Amber > > Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > > > > I think it would be false advertising or possibly mis-advertising > (if they > > do not know any better) if a company lists their bulbs as 6500K and > > they aren't. The Kelvin scale, just like Watts and Lumens, are ALL > > universal and scientifically measurable scales BUT, as I showed > > below, not all 40 watt bulbs put out the same amount of light > > (lumens) or in the same color spectrum (Kelvin rating). All 40 watt > > bulbs, whether incandescent, fluorescent, CFL, LED, Halogen, etc.... > > ALL use only/around 40 watts of electricity but their light output > > can vary dramatically. This is why fluorescent bulbs are so much > > more efficient than incandescent bulbs and CFL's are even more > > efficient... as a 40W fluorescent bulb puts out > a LOT > > more light (lumens) than a 40 watt incandescent bulb and a 40W CFL > > puts out more light (lumens) than a 40W fluorescent bulb. This is > > why the OLD "Watts Per Gallon" rule simply does not work any more. > > > > BUT.. if three different companies are selling standard T-10 > > fluorescent bulbs with the same exact rating of 40W, 3550 lumens and > > 6500K rating... all three of those bulbs should be VERY SIMILAR if > > not identical in the way they appear to our eyes (subject to our own > > degree of color blindness, of > > course!) > > > > In the past, things like "soft white", "warm white", "daylight", > > "plant grow", etc., type terms were used and are still used but > > those are just simple words (not subject to a scientific scale) to > > describe the Kelvin rating ranges but lumens are just as important > > since a bulb could have a 6500K rating with only 2200 lumens where > > another bulb could have a 6500K rating and 3550 or 3700 lumens and > > that bulb would put out over 50% more light (lumens) in the same > > color spectrum (Kelvin rating) so it > would be a > > much more cost effective bulb if it cost the same amount or only a > little > > more. > > > > I'm slightly confused about the "red and blue light for your plants" > > as those two colors are on opposite ends of the Kelvin Scale with > > reds and ambers in the lower numbers and greens and blues in the > > higher > numbers. I > > think this is why you would want a mid-range (5000K to 6500K) bulb > > as those are generally considered "full spectrum" or "daylight" > > bulbs. Here's a color picture of the Kelvin Scale, > > http://www.bltdirect.com/images/colour-temperature.jpg > <http://www.bltdirect.com/images/colour-temperature.jpg> > > <http://www.bltdirect.com/images/colour-temperature.jpg > <http://www.bltdirect.com/images/colour-temperature.jpg>> and you can > > visually > > see that the 5000K to 6500K range is all about the same "color". I > > think this is also why Actinic bulbs are usually higher and closer > > to the > 10000K > > range and up... apparently, the Kelvin lighting scale can go up to > 20,000K > > (according to this article about Reef Tanks > > http://nh.craigslist.org/for/1423072406.html > <http://nh.craigslist.org/for/1423072406.html> > > <http://nh.craigslist.org/for/1423072406.html > <http://nh.craigslist.org/for/1423072406.html>> on, of all places, > > Craigslist). > > Here is the page that that the above photo link came from and it has > > a chart that also explains things a little more also and talks about > > the > CRI, yet > > another lighting term (Color Rendition Index). > > http://www.bltdirect.com/lampColourTemperatures.php > <http://www.bltdirect.com/lampColourTemperatures.php> > > <http://www.bltdirect.com/lampColourTemperatures.php > <http://www.bltdirect.com/lampColourTemperatures.php>> > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>> > > (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the > > right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by > > Year, > Month) > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On Behalf Of Amber Berglund > > Sent: Tuesday, November 10, 2009 4:22 PM > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: wisteria/lighting previous > > question/response revisited > > > > Another thing to consider is one light company's 6500 kelvin rating > > may not be identical to another light bulb from a different company > > that's rated the same. The important thing to look at is the color > > chart they show on the boxes, you want more red and blue light for > > your plants, green is not useful or harmful as the plants reflect > > the light back (makes them appear more green but does nothing else > > for them). The kelvin rating is based on our eyes and how they > > perceive color, so each company doesn't have to be identical, > > perhaps some day they will have a universal way to measure light > > spectrums on bulbs that is much less confusing. > > > > Amber > > > > Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > > > > > > OK. So you have a total of 80 watts right now, which is just over > > > 1 WPG, which means you only have enough lighting for low-light, > > > easy to grow plants. See my blog article "Planted Tank: So You > > > Want A Planted Tank" for links to lists of low-light, easy to grow > > > plants that will do OK in your tank. You should replace those tubes at least yearly... > > > although some say every six months. As far as I know, a 40W bulb > > > is the highest wattage made for this type of bulb/fixture right > > > now but you can increase your lighting > > > (lumens) and K (Kelvin) rating. See below. > > > > > > NOTE - below links are for example/informational purposes only, as > > > I know nothing about the sites. God... did I just say that? Do I > > > really have to add disclaimers to my posts now? LOL Just laughing at myself. > > > LOL > > > > > > This may be your Sylvania bulb... > > > http://www.lightbulbemporium.com/proddetail.asp?prod=F40/EX50 > <http://www.lightbulbemporium.com/proddetail.asp?prod=F40/EX50> > > <http://www.lightbulbemporium.com/proddetail.asp?prod=F40/EX50 > <http://www.lightbulbemporium.com/proddetail.asp?prod=F40/EX50>> > > > <http://www.lightbulbemporium.com/proddetail.asp?prod=F40/EX50 > <http://www.lightbulbemporium.com/proddetail.asp?prod=F40/EX50> > > <http://www.lightbulbemporium.com/proddetail.asp?prod=F40/EX50 > <http://www.lightbulbemporium.com/proddetail.asp?prod=F40/EX50>>> and > if > > > it is, then it's the same ratings as the specs in the T-10 bulb > > > that I copy/pasted below, which is a pretty good bulb with higher > > > lumens and the higher K rating, although not a 6500K rated bulb. > > > At the bottom of this page, there was a link to this bulb... > > > > > > http://www.lightbulbemporium.com/maxlite_51204_ml_f40t10_850_rscg.asp > <http://www.lightbulbemporium.com/maxlite_51204_ml_f40t10_850_rscg.asp > > > > > <http://www.lightbulbemporium.com/maxlite_51204_ml_f40t10_850_rscg.asp > <http://www.lightbulbemporium.com/maxlite_51204_ml_f40t10_850_rscg.asp > >> > > > > > > <http://www.lightbulbemporium.com/maxlite_51204_ml_f40t10_850_rscg.asp > <http://www.lightbulbemporium.com/maxlite_51204_ml_f40t10_850_rscg.asp > > > > > <http://www.lightbulbemporium.com/maxlite_51204_ml_f40t10_850_rscg.asp > <http://www.lightbulbemporium.com/maxlite_51204_ml_f40t10_850_rscg.asp > >> > > > > > > > which > > > has an even higher lumen rating of 3700, although not much higher > > > than the 3550 rating but every little bit helps especially since > > > the MaxLite bulb was a lower price than the Sylvania bulb. > > > > > > As you will see on this page > > > > > > http://www.lightbulbsdirect.com/Merchant2/merchant.mvc?page=001/CTGY/F > <http://www.lightbulbsdirect.com/Merchant2/merchant.mvc?page=001/CTGY/ > F> > > > <http://www.lightbulbsdirect.com/Merchant2/merchant.mvc?page=001/CTGY/ > F > <http://www.lightbulbsdirect.com/Merchant2/merchant.mvc?page=001/CTGY/ > F>> > > > S+Fluo > > > > > > <http://www.lightbulbsdirect.com/Merchant2/merchant.mvc?page=001/CTGY/ > <http://www.lightbulbsdirect.com/Merchant2/merchant.mvc?page=001/CTGY/ > > > > > <http://www.lightbulbsdirect.com/Merchant2/merchant.mvc?page=001/CTGY/ > <http://www.lightbulbsdirect.com/Merchant2/merchant.mvc?page=001/CTGY/ > >> > > > FS+Fluo> > > > rescent > > > > > > The second bulb down would be similar to yours, except we do not > > > know the lumen or color spectrum rating on your bulb, unless that > > > link I gave above is actually your bulb and then it would be the > > > same as this one. The specs on it are: > > > > > > T-10 Fluorescent > > > 40 Watts > > > Length: 48" > > > Medium Bi-Pin Base > > > Color: 5000K Temperature > > > Initial Lumens: 3550 > > > CRI: 84 > > > Average Life: 20,000 Hours > > > > > > The Color spectrum of 5000K (Kelvin) is OK but 6500K would be much > > better. > > > The Lumens of 3550 is the actual amount of *light* > > > > > > The next bulb down from that one is a T-12, which will also fit in > > > your fixture but they are bigger diameter bulbs and this one > > > actually puts out less light (lumens). Here are the specs: > > > > > > T-12 Fluorescent > > > 40 Watts > > > Length: 48" > > > Base: Medium Bi-Pin Base > > > Initial Lumens: 2200 > > > Average Life: 20,000 Hours > > > Color Temperature: 5000K > > > CRI: 92 > > > > > > It has the same Color spectrum but only 2200 lumens so the above > > > T-10 bulb has around 50% more lumens (light) coming out of it. > > > > > > Now, if you scroll down to the second from the bottom on the page, > > > you'll see the Verilux Instant-Sun T-12 bulb which has a higher > > > Kelvin rating but it doesn't list the lumens so this needs to be > > > checked out further. While the higher K rating is good, if it goes > > > back down to only 2200 lumens, instead of the 3550 lumens of the > > > first referenced bulb above, then I would probably go with the > > > 3550 lumens, 5000K bulb over the 6280K bulb if the lumens were a LOT less. > > > > > > (START SNIP) > > > Engineered to reproduce all the colors and balance of natural > > > light, VeriluxR full spectrum fluorescent tubes feature Trucolite > > > Phosphor TechnologyT which includes the use of a stable, custom > > > blend of earth phosphors that create bright, balanced full spectrum light. > > > T-12 Fluorescent > > > 40 Watts > > > Length: 48" > > > Color Temperature: 6280K > > > CRI: 94 > > > Medium Bi-Pin Base > > > (END SNIP) > > > > > > So, as you can see, there's a few things to look for when shopping > > > for new replacement bulbs. Look for the 5000K to 6500K bulbs with > > > the higher lumen rating for the dollar and you should be good. > > > Note that a 3550 or 3700 lumen bulb will put out nearly twice as > > > much light as a 2000 lumen bulb so it can be easy to increase your > > > lighting without increasing the wattage. DO NOT try to use HO or > > > VHO bulbs... which look similar but have much higher wattage, well > > > over the 40W bulbs you now have. These other HO and VHO bulbs have > > > different pin arrangements so they will not fit in your fixture > > > anyhow but I just wanted to save you a trip. > > > > > > Last but not least, if you're handy, you could even take the bulbs > > > out of your fixtures and line the insides of your fixtures with > > > nice and crisp and flat aluminum foil (shiny side exposed) which > > > will also help. Using double stick tape and then carefully > > > applying the foil so it does not wrinkle too much will work > > > well... especially if the inside of your fixture is black. A white > > > reflector is good but a mirrored reflector, like that created by > > > the shiny side of foil, is MUCH better than a black reflector. > > > Most black fixtures do at least have white reflector areas. > > > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>> > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>>> > > (Links to any articles referenced in > > > above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under > > > Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On Behalf Of > > > erikaandnewton > > > Sent: Tuesday, November 10, 2009 10:17 AM > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: wisteria/lighting previous > > > question/response revisited > > > > > > << When you say "two strips" do you have two 4' long two-bulb > > > fixtures already or something else?>> > > > > > > i have two 4' single bulb strip lights. > > > > > > >> What kind of lighting do you currently have? Look at the bulbs > > > >> and there should be some kind of writing on one of the ends. > > > >> Give us that info if you cannot decipher it yourself.<< > > > > > > one bulb is a f40 t10 > > > the other one is a sylvania daylight bulb also f40 > > > > > > >> It's probably 21" tall, since a common measurement for a 75G is > > > >> 48"x18"x21" Tall.>> > > > > > > it is 21 inches tall > > > > > > erika wilmington de usa

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 44398	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 11/10/2009
Subject: Re: [Bulk] RE: [AquaticLife] Wow! Aquarium Accident

Lenny, I saw it on the local TV here., and the story is on their website, which I look at nearly every day. I'm sure all the DC stations carried it. \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Lenny V. aka GoldLenny Sent: Wednesday, November 11, 2009 12:28 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [Bulk] RE: [AquaticLife] Wow! Aquarium Accident Well, that's why I threw in the "Last but not least" catch-all paragraph. ;-) And if you don't have an LFS or other pet store with fish tanks... go here... http://www.montereybayaquarium.org/efc/cam_menu.aspx and look at live webcams (7AM-7PM PT) of the various aquariums and exhibits. Best viewed during feeding times. Speaking of which, did anyone else see the Lions get that baby deer *almost-a-meal* at The National Zoo in Washington, D.C... Story - http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/worldnews/article-1226468/The-moment-baby-de er-leaps-lion-enclosure-zoo--manages-escape.html with 14-part Video on YouTube at the bottom. Them Lions must have felt like a kid in a candy store for a little while. ;-) Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Amber Berglund Sent: Tuesday, November 10, 2009 10:27 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [Bulk] RE: [AquaticLife] Wow! Aquarium Accident Unless your Amber and live on an island in Alaska. LOL. The biggest aquarium display we ever had was about 500 gallons and it was a saltwater display at a local seafood seller (fresh seafood), but unfortunately they took it down at some point years ago and put it in someone's backyard where it ended up cracked. I think it's still sitting in their backyard, only been, oh.. 10 years? LOL. Amber Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > > Dora, > > They can go pay admission to the usually, already, tax-payer > subsidized GIANT public aquariums that already exist in so many > cities... or they can go to one of the MANY restaurants that have BIG > aquariums and see the aquarium for free... many, many in most cities. > > We use to have a restaurant/bar down here called Sharky's Reef that > had a HUGE shark aquarium, probably in the 50,000G range, with about a > dozen sharks and it had free entrance during the day to the restaurant... > although > at night, when it became a club, there was a cover charge to us guys > looking to chum the waters and catch something. > > Landry's Restaurants is a BIG chain of theme restaurants > http://www.landrysrestaurants.com/pages/restaurants/pg_restaurants.htm > <http://www.landrysrestaurants.com/pages/restaurants/pg_restaurants.ht > m> > and > many of them are set around a HUGE aquarium or other water-type theme.... > like a rain forest, etc. > > Last but not least, they can go see all the aquariums they want by > visiting local fish stores (LFS) and big-box pet stores... at no cost > to us tax-payers. > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> (Links to any articles referenced in > above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels > and also under Archives by Year, Month) > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On Behalf Of Dora Smith > Sent: Tuesday, November 10, 2009 8:53 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Subject: Re: [Bulk] RE: [AquaticLife] Wow! Aquarium Accident > > We like to see aquariums - why shouldn't the public? > > Yours, > Dora Smith > Austin, TX > tiggernut24@... <mailto:tiggernut24%40yahoo.com> > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@... > <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com>> > To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>> > Sent: Tuesday, November 10, 2009 8:09 PM > Subject: [Bulk] RE: [AquaticLife] Wow! Aquarium Accident > > I hope she has more than 10/20/10 insurance. :-O > > Poor fish... 90% died that day.... but even worse, poor taxpayers for > the airport (a government agency) spending $200,000.00 on a stupid art > project... a 1,500G tank that a private entity/person could have > probably set up for a fraction of that cost. > > GlassCages.com sells 500G acrylic tanks for $2,200 so I'm sure a > 1,500G would be in the $10,000.00 PLUS range, just for the tank, but still... > $200.000.00????? Of course, building it outside, instead of inside, > also means a LOT more money spent on temperature control but if it had > been built inside, it would have cost a LOT less and it might also > still be around today... and it would have saved hundreds of thousands > of tax-payer dollars over the past 10 years. > > Here's the original story on TampaBay.com, with more info and a picture. > http://www.tampabay.com/news/publicsafety/accidents/woman-with-boy-in- > lap-pl > <http://www.tampabay.com/news/publicsafety/accidents/woman-with-boy-in > -lap-pl> > ows-truck-into-tia-wall-destroying-aquarium/1050673 > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> (Links to any articles referenced in > above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels > and also under Archives by Year, Month) > -----------------------------<snip>-------------------------------

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 44399	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 11/10/2009
Subject: Re: wisteria/lighting previous question/response revisited

Yeah... I keep kind of hoping that Google will eventually provide an online "Bookmarks/Favorites" service or homepage add-in, which would also include a search feature and maybe even a way to scan for bad links in the Bookmarks/Favorites instead of finding out when you go to use that long kept bookmark/favorite and the site no longer exists... of course, there's always the Wayback Machine at the Internet Archive http://www.archive.org to find websites/pages that have disappeared from the net. I regularly go into my IE Favorites and use the "Organize Favorites" feature to move things around but also will use Windows Explorer, C:\Documents and Settings\Owner\Favorites\, to look at my Favorites folder and drag and drop, move and rename things around in there. Then, there is this Registry hack to mass sort the Favorites folder, sub-folders and files, instead of having to "Sort By Name" inside each folder. From http://www.theeldergeek.com/sort_favorites_menu_alphabetical.htm (with some added instructions by me to clarify some things). Sort Favorites Menu Alphabetically [Start] [Run] [Regedit] Registry Key: HKEY_CURRENT_USER\Software\Microsoft\Windows\CurrentVersion\Explorer\MenuOrd er\Favorites (Click on Favorites to highlight, then in the view panel) Right click the Favorites key *Order* and click Delete Exit registry and reboot. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Steve Szabo Sent: Tuesday, November 10, 2009 11:43 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: wisteria/lighting previous question/response revisited Lenny, I have a couple of problems. First, I do have a lot of folders and sub folders for things, and try to use them. However, I can also be pressed for time, and just bookmark it, thinking I'll fix it later. Somehow, later comes even later than one would expect, and when it does arrive, I do a bunch, but never finish going through the list. The other problem is that what made sense at the time, may not make sense when I am looking for the bookmark, possible because I a thinking about the topic in a different way than when I bookmarked the site. It is kind of like how one searches the web. If your first key words do not provide what you are looking for, you modify those terms and search again. Same topic, a bit different way of looking at it. Eventually, you will get what you want. What I probably need is a bookmark search engine. For those of you who were born and weaned with Windows, bookmarks is the correct term, not Microsoft's Favorites, though, I must admit, it is possible to have favorite bookmarks. \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Lenny V. aka GoldLenny Sent: Tuesday, November 10, 2009 11:57 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: wisteria/lighting previous question/response revisited Bookmarks and Favorites are filing systems... if you don't know how/where it's filed, you won't find it anyhow. I have an extensive Favorites folder with dozens of primary folders and then dozens if not hundreds of sub-folders and sub-sub-folders, for example, under Favorites, I have 59 primary folders and one of them is called Aquarium Sites, then, in that folder, I have 44 alphabetized sub-folders just in that folder, from Additives and Algae to Tutorials-Quizzes and UGF Filters (no V,W,X,Y,Z sub-folders under Aquarium... not sure why not). Then in the Algae folder, I have 7 sub-sub-folders dealing with topics such as Algae Eaters, Allelopathic Control, Diatoms-Brown Algae, Hair Algae, Hydrogen Peroxide, Pond Algae, SeaChem Flourish Excel For Treating Algae and then 11 other favorites about Algae in general, for a total of 48 links, just about Algae. My Favorites folder, when looking at its Properties, is 1.41MB in size and consists of 2,057 files (links) and 306 folders (incl. sub and sub-sub folders) in totality. Many years of surfing and saving and starting off with an organizational plan from the start makes it easy for me to navigate and find things easily. My Favorites is like a mini-Google. ;-) I have been toying around with the idea of using a web resource to keep my Favorites folder online so I can sync it with all of my computers and/or just use it as an online Favorites folder that I can log into from any computer. For now, I use LogMeIn (Free) to connect to my main computer from my laptop when I'm out in the streets playing... oops.. I meant working. But I don't think I'd share my Favorites or then I'd have to go in and edit out all my favorite porn links... well, maybe not for Bill. LOL Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Amber Berglund Sent: Tuesday, November 10, 2009 10:25 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: wisteria/lighting previous question/response revisited No worries Bill, I do the same thing, maybe Lenny will be so kind as to send us all his bookmarks? LOL Amber bill 1433 wrote: > > Yes, Amber > > It was I, looking for the original information and also looked back on > \\Steve//'s post at group to try and find. Ray had mentioned all this > the other day saying that he thought the posting came from \\Steve//. > > I was not successful in my search. Also, for me the most important > part was a link to a chart which showed you exactly, or explained > exactly the "T" factor stands for. For instance, T-4 would be a tube > that is a half inch wide, or close to it-----------I think. All this > is my own fault. In my interest to acquire and learn about lighting,I > went through and studied the applied links but being ol'bill, I never > bookmarked them. Then to further compound the problem, I deleted the > original message that it came from. In hind-sight you could probably > chalk this all up to felonious stupidity on my part. > > Bill---where its always a good day if I learn something new! > > --- On Tue, 11/10/09, Amber Berglund <arberglund@... > <mailto:arberglund%40gmail.com>> wrote: > > From: Amber Berglund <arberglund@... > <mailto:arberglund%40gmail.com>> > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: wisteria/lighting previous > question/response revisited > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Date: Tuesday, November 10, 2009, 9:30 PM > > I believe it was Steve who posted a link about lumens months back when > (I think it was maybe Bill asking) about lighting for planted aquariums. > Plants require 2 different spectrums of light to properly produce > either leaves or flowers (red is more for flower production and blue > is more for growth, but for the best growing you want a mixture of BOTH colors). > So in reality you would want a light that appears more brown/reddish > in coloring and a blue/white coloring as well, but they now have bulbs > that have BOTH spectrums built in (I'm sure they don't work as well as > it would to have 2 different bulbs one mostly red and the other mostly > blue on the color spectrum). > Let me see if I still have the link bookmarked. > What I was trying to say is that Kelvin does not tell you what color > spectrum the light REALLY is, it's actually measuring it's light > output color according to how the human eyes perceive it. So 6500 > kelvin in general is what most plants will prefer because that is a > mixture of both red and blue spectrums (In MOST bulbs) unfortunately > not all light bulb manufactures have to use the exact same chart for > their colors, so they will have different colors than another bulb > that says it's 6500 Kelvin. what you really need to read is the color > chart on the box, not what lumens it says it is. > (still searching for link, LOL). > > This isn't the right link but it discusses the kelvin/lumen problems a > little bit, still looking for the link that showed the charts and what > to look for in the color charts. > http://www.americanaquariumproducts.com/Aquarium_Lighting.html > <http://www.americanaquariumproducts.com/Aquarium_Lighting.html> > > Will post again when I find the other link with chart examples. > > Amber > > Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > > > > I think it would be false advertising or possibly mis-advertising > (if they > > do not know any better) if a company lists their bulbs as 6500K and > > they aren't. The Kelvin scale, just like Watts and Lumens, are ALL > > universal and scientifically measurable scales BUT, as I showed > > below, not all 40 watt bulbs put out the same amount of light > > (lumens) or in the same color spectrum (Kelvin rating). All 40 watt > > bulbs, whether incandescent, fluorescent, CFL, LED, Halogen, etc.... > > ALL use only/around 40 watts of electricity but their light output > > can vary dramatically. This is why fluorescent bulbs are so much > > more efficient than incandescent bulbs and CFL's are even more > > efficient... as a 40W fluorescent bulb puts out > a LOT > > more light (lumens) than a 40 watt incandescent bulb and a 40W CFL > > puts out more light (lumens) than a 40W fluorescent bulb. This is > > why the OLD "Watts Per Gallon" rule simply does not work any more. > > > > BUT.. if three different companies are selling standard T-10 > > fluorescent bulbs with the same exact rating of 40W, 3550 lumens and > > 6500K rating... all three of those bulbs should be VERY SIMILAR if > > not identical in the way they appear to our eyes (subject to our own > > degree of color blindness, of > > course!) > > > > In the past, things like "soft white", "warm white", "daylight", > > "plant grow", etc., type terms were used and are still used but > > those are just simple words (not subject to a scientific scale) to > > describe the Kelvin rating ranges but lumens are just as important > > since a bulb could have a 6500K rating with only 2200 lumens where > > another bulb could have a 6500K rating and 3550 or 3700 lumens and > > that bulb would put out over 50% more light (lumens) in the same > > color spectrum (Kelvin rating) so it > would be a > > much more cost effective bulb if it cost the same amount or only a > little > > more. > > > > I'm slightly confused about the "red and blue light for your plants" > > as those two colors are on opposite ends of the Kelvin Scale with > > reds and ambers in the lower numbers and greens and blues in the > > higher > numbers. I > > think this is why you would want a mid-range (5000K to 6500K) bulb > > as those are generally considered "full spectrum" or "daylight" > > bulbs. Here's a color picture of the Kelvin Scale, > > http://www.bltdirect.com/images/colour-temperature.jpg > <http://www.bltdirect.com/images/colour-temperature.jpg> > > <http://www.bltdirect.com/images/colour-temperature.jpg > <http://www.bltdirect.com/images/colour-temperature.jpg>> and you can > > visually > > see that the 5000K to 6500K range is all about the same "color". I > > think this is also why Actinic bulbs are usually higher and closer > > to the > 10000K > > range and up... apparently, the Kelvin lighting scale can go up to > 20,000K > > (according to this article about Reef Tanks > > http://nh.craigslist.org/for/1423072406.html > <http://nh.craigslist.org/for/1423072406.html> > > <http://nh.craigslist.org/for/1423072406.html > <http://nh.craigslist.org/for/1423072406.html>> on, of all places, > > Craigslist). > > Here is the page that that the above photo link came from and it has > > a chart that also explains things a little more also and talks about > > the > CRI, yet > > another lighting term (Color Rendition Index). > > http://www.bltdirect.com/lampColourTemperatures.php > <http://www.bltdirect.com/lampColourTemperatures.php> > > <http://www.bltdirect.com/lampColourTemperatures.php > <http://www.bltdirect.com/lampColourTemperatures.php>> > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>> > > (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the > > right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by > > Year, > Month) > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On Behalf Of Amber Berglund > > Sent: Tuesday, November 10, 2009 4:22 PM > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: wisteria/lighting previous > > question/response revisited > > > > Another thing to consider is one light company's 6500 kelvin rating > > may not be identical to another light bulb from a different company > > that's rated the same. The important thing to look at is the color > > chart they show on the boxes, you want more red and blue light for > > your plants, green is not useful or harmful as the plants reflect > > the light back (makes them appear more green but does nothing else > > for them). The kelvin rating is based on our eyes and how they > > perceive color, so each company doesn't have to be identical, > > perhaps some day they will have a universal way to measure light > > spectrums on bulbs that is much less confusing. > > > > Amber > > > > Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > > > > > > OK. So you have a total of 80 watts right now, which is just over > > > 1 WPG, which means you only have enough lighting for low-light, > > > easy to grow plants. See my blog article "Planted Tank: So You > > > Want A Planted Tank" for links to lists of low-light, easy to grow > > > plants that will do OK in your tank. You should replace those tubes at least yearly... > > > although some say every six months. As far as I know, a 40W bulb > > > is the highest wattage made for this type of bulb/fixture right > > > now but you can increase your lighting > > > (lumens) and K (Kelvin) rating. See below. > > > > > > NOTE - below links are for example/informational purposes only, as > > > I know nothing about the sites. God... did I just say that? Do I > > > really have to add disclaimers to my posts now? LOL Just laughing at myself. > > > LOL > > > > > > This may be your Sylvania bulb... > > > http://www.lightbulbemporium.com/proddetail.asp?prod=F40/EX50 > <http://www.lightbulbemporium.com/proddetail.asp?prod=F40/EX50> > > <http://www.lightbulbemporium.com/proddetail.asp?prod=F40/EX50 > <http://www.lightbulbemporium.com/proddetail.asp?prod=F40/EX50>> > > > <http://www.lightbulbemporium.com/proddetail.asp?prod=F40/EX50 > <http://www.lightbulbemporium.com/proddetail.asp?prod=F40/EX50> > > <http://www.lightbulbemporium.com/proddetail.asp?prod=F40/EX50 > <http://www.lightbulbemporium.com/proddetail.asp?prod=F40/EX50>>> and > if > > > it is, then it's the same ratings as the specs in the T-10 bulb > > > that I copy/pasted below, which is a pretty good bulb with higher > > > lumens and the higher K rating, although not a 6500K rated bulb. > > > At the bottom of this page, there was a link to this bulb... > > > > > > http://www.lightbulbemporium.com/maxlite_51204_ml_f40t10_850_rscg.asp > <http://www.lightbulbemporium.com/maxlite_51204_ml_f40t10_850_rscg.asp > > > > > <http://www.lightbulbemporium.com/maxlite_51204_ml_f40t10_850_rscg.asp > <http://www.lightbulbemporium.com/maxlite_51204_ml_f40t10_850_rscg.asp > >> > > > > > > <http://www.lightbulbemporium.com/maxlite_51204_ml_f40t10_850_rscg.asp > <http://www.lightbulbemporium.com/maxlite_51204_ml_f40t10_850_rscg.asp > > > > > <http://www.lightbulbemporium.com/maxlite_51204_ml_f40t10_850_rscg.asp > <http://www.lightbulbemporium.com/maxlite_51204_ml_f40t10_850_rscg.asp > >> > > > > > > > which > > > has an even higher lumen rating of 3700, although not much higher > > > than the 3550 rating but every little bit helps especially since > > > the MaxLite bulb was a lower price than the Sylvania bulb. > > > > > > As you will see on this page > > > > > > http://www.lightbulbsdirect.com/Merchant2/merchant.mvc?page=001/CTGY/F > <http://www.lightbulbsdirect.com/Merchant2/merchant.mvc?page=001/CTGY/ > F> > > > <http://www.lightbulbsdirect.com/Merchant2/merchant.mvc?page=001/CTGY/ > F > <http://www.lightbulbsdirect.com/Merchant2/merchant.mvc?page=001/CTGY/ > F>> > > > S+Fluo > > > > > > <http://www.lightbulbsdirect.com/Merchant2/merchant.mvc?page=001/CTGY/ > <http://www.lightbulbsdirect.com/Merchant2/merchant.mvc?page=001/CTGY/ > > > > > <http://www.lightbulbsdirect.com/Merchant2/merchant.mvc?page=001/CTGY/ > <http://www.lightbulbsdirect.com/Merchant2/merchant.mvc?page=001/CTGY/ > >> > > > FS+Fluo> > > > rescent > > > > > > The second bulb down would be similar to yours, except we do not > > > know the lumen or color spectrum rating on your bulb, unless that > > > link I gave above is actually your bulb and then it would be the > > > same as this one. The specs on it are: > > > > > > T-10 Fluorescent > > > 40 Watts > > > Length: 48" > > > Medium Bi-Pin Base > > > Color: 5000K Temperature > > > Initial Lumens: 3550 > > > CRI: 84 > > > Average Life: 20,000 Hours > > > > > > The Color spectrum of 5000K (Kelvin) is OK but 6500K would be much > > better. > > > The Lumens of 3550 is the actual amount of *light* > > > > > > The next bulb down from that one is a T-12, which will also fit in > > > your fixture but they are bigger diameter bulbs and this one > > > actually puts out less light (lumens). Here are the specs: > > > > > > T-12 Fluorescent > > > 40 Watts > > > Length: 48" > > > Base: Medium Bi-Pin Base > > > Initial Lumens: 2200 > > > Average Life: 20,000 Hours > > > Color Temperature: 5000K > > > CRI: 92 > > > > > > It has the same Color spectrum but only 2200 lumens so the above > > > T-10 bulb has around 50% more lumens (light) coming out of it. > > > > > > Now, if you scroll down to the second from the bottom on the page, > > > you'll see the Verilux Instant-Sun T-12 bulb which has a higher > > > Kelvin rating but it doesn't list the lumens so this needs to be > > > checked out further. While the higher K rating is good, if it goes > > > back down to only 2200 lumens, instead of the 3550 lumens of the > > > first referenced bulb above, then I would probably go with the > > > 3550 lumens, 5000K bulb over the 6280K bulb if the lumens were a LOT less. > > > > > > (START SNIP) > > > Engineered to reproduce all the colors and balance of natural > > > light, VeriluxR full spectrum fluorescent tubes feature Trucolite > > > Phosphor TechnologyT which includes the use of a stable, custom > > > blend of earth phosphors that create bright, balanced full spectrum light. > > > T-12 Fluorescent > > > 40 Watts > > > Length: 48" > > > Color Temperature: 6280K > > > CRI: 94 > > > Medium Bi-Pin Base > > > (END SNIP) > > > > > > So, as you can see, there's a few things to look for when shopping > > > for new replacement bulbs. Look for the 5000K to 6500K bulbs with > > > the higher lumen rating for the dollar and you should be good. > > > Note that a 3550 or 3700 lumen bulb will put out nearly twice as > > > much light as a 2000 lumen bulb so it can be easy to increase your > > > lighting without increasing the wattage. DO NOT try to use HO or > > > VHO bulbs... which look similar but have much higher wattage, well > > > over the 40W bulbs you now have. These other HO and VHO bulbs have > > > different pin arrangements so they will not fit in your fixture > > > anyhow but I just wanted to save you a trip. > > > > > > Last but not least, if you're handy, you could even take the bulbs > > > out of your fixtures and line the insides of your fixtures with > > > nice and crisp and flat aluminum foil (shiny side exposed) which > > > will also help. Using double stick tape and then carefully > > > applying the foil so it does not wrinkle too much will work > > > well... especially if the inside of your fixture is black. A white > > > reflector is good but a mirrored reflector, like that created by > > > the shiny side of foil, is MUCH better than a black reflector. > > > Most black fixtures do at least have white reflector areas. > > > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>> > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>>> > > (Links to any articles referenced in > > > above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under > > > Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On Behalf Of > > > erikaandnewton > > > Sent: Tuesday, November 10, 2009 10:17 AM > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: wisteria/lighting previous > > > question/response revisited > > > > > > << When you say "two strips" do you have two 4' long two-bulb > > > fixtures already or something else?>> > > > > > > i have two 4' single bulb strip lights. > > > > > > >> What kind of lighting do you currently have? Look at the bulbs > > > >> and there should be some kind of writing on one of the ends. > > > >> Give us that info if you cannot decipher it yourself.<< > > > > > > one bulb is a f40 t10 > > > the other one is a sylvania daylight bulb also f40 > > > > > > >> It's probably 21" tall, since a common measurement for a 75G is > > > >> 48"x18"x21" Tall.>> > > > > > > it is 21 inches tall > > > > > > erika wilmington de usa ------------------------------------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. 74/`7.88.><((((:>.74/`7.88.74/`7.8><((((:> 8.74/`7.8. , .74/`7..><((((:> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <:((((><.74/`7.88.74/`7.8<:((((><8.74/`7.8. , .74/`7..<:((((><74/`7.88. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the home page. Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com to receive the digest, which includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com for the No E-Mail option where you will still be able to read messages on the group and post replies. Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com to receive individual e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 44400	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 11/10/2009
Subject: Re: [Bulk] RE: [AquaticLife] Wow! Aquarium Accident

Do you know if any video exists of how the deer was eventually *rescued*, only to be put down? The last I can find is of the deer swimming around in the moat and a zoo-cop moving people away from the exhibit. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Steve Szabo Sent: Tuesday, November 10, 2009 11:51 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [Bulk] RE: [AquaticLife] Wow! Aquarium Accident Lenny, I saw it on the local TV here., and the story is on their website, which I look at nearly every day. I'm sure all the DC stations carried it. \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Lenny V. aka GoldLenny Sent: Wednesday, November 11, 2009 12:28 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [Bulk] RE: [AquaticLife] Wow! Aquarium Accident Well, that's why I threw in the "Last but not least" catch-all paragraph. ;-) And if you don't have an LFS or other pet store with fish tanks... go here... http://www.montereybayaquarium.org/efc/cam_menu.aspx and look at live webcams (7AM-7PM PT) of the various aquariums and exhibits. Best viewed during feeding times. Speaking of which, did anyone else see the Lions get that baby deer *almost-a-meal* at The National Zoo in Washington, D.C... Story - http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/worldnews/article-1226468/The-moment-baby-de er-leaps-lion-enclosure-zoo--manages-escape.html with 14-part Video on YouTube at the bottom. Them Lions must have felt like a kid in a candy store for a little while. ;-) Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Amber Berglund Sent: Tuesday, November 10, 2009 10:27 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [Bulk] RE: [AquaticLife] Wow! Aquarium Accident Unless your Amber and live on an island in Alaska. LOL. The biggest aquarium display we ever had was about 500 gallons and it was a saltwater display at a local seafood seller (fresh seafood), but unfortunately they took it down at some point years ago and put it in someone's backyard where it ended up cracked. I think it's still sitting in their backyard, only been, oh.. 10 years? LOL. Amber Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > > Dora, > > They can go pay admission to the usually, already, tax-payer > subsidized GIANT public aquariums that already exist in so many > cities... or they can go to one of the MANY restaurants that have BIG > aquariums and see the aquarium for free... many, many in most cities. > > We use to have a restaurant/bar down here called Sharky's Reef that > had a HUGE shark aquarium, probably in the 50,000G range, with about a > dozen sharks and it had free entrance during the day to the restaurant... > although > at night, when it became a club, there was a cover charge to us guys > looking to chum the waters and catch something. > > Landry's Restaurants is a BIG chain of theme restaurants > http://www.landrysrestaurants.com/pages/restaurants/pg_restaurants.htm > <http://www.landrysrestaurants.com/pages/restaurants/pg_restaurants.ht > m> > and > many of them are set around a HUGE aquarium or other water-type theme.... > like a rain forest, etc. > > Last but not least, they can go see all the aquariums they want by > visiting local fish stores (LFS) and big-box pet stores... at no cost > to us tax-payers. > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> (Links to any articles referenced in > above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels > and also under Archives by Year, Month) > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On Behalf Of Dora Smith > Sent: Tuesday, November 10, 2009 8:53 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Subject: Re: [Bulk] RE: [AquaticLife] Wow! Aquarium Accident > > We like to see aquariums - why shouldn't the public? > > Yours, > Dora Smith > Austin, TX > tiggernut24@... <mailto:tiggernut24%40yahoo.com> > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@... > <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com>> > To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>> > Sent: Tuesday, November 10, 2009 8:09 PM > Subject: [Bulk] RE: [AquaticLife] Wow! Aquarium Accident > > I hope she has more than 10/20/10 insurance. :-O > > Poor fish... 90% died that day.... but even worse, poor taxpayers for > the airport (a government agency) spending $200,000.00 on a stupid art > project... a 1,500G tank that a private entity/person could have > probably set up for a fraction of that cost. > > GlassCages.com sells 500G acrylic tanks for $2,200 so I'm sure a > 1,500G would be in the $10,000.00 PLUS range, just for the tank, but still... > $200.000.00????? Of course, building it outside, instead of inside, > also means a LOT more money spent on temperature control but if it had > been built inside, it would have cost a LOT less and it might also > still be around today... and it would have saved hundreds of thousands > of tax-payer dollars over the past 10 years. > > Here's the original story on TampaBay.com, with more info and a picture. > http://www.tampabay.com/news/publicsafety/accidents/woman-with-boy-in- > lap-pl > <http://www.tampabay.com/news/publicsafety/accidents/woman-with-boy-in > -lap-pl> > ows-truck-into-tia-wall-destroying-aquarium/1050673 > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> (Links to any articles referenced in > above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels > and also under Archives by Year, Month)

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 44401	From: sevenspringss@wmconnect.com	Date: 11/10/2009
Subject: Re: More on Vacuums

Looks like you need to rethink the size of your gelatin foods before freezing them, so you don't put too much in the fridge part when thawing them out to use them. Ray [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 44402	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 11/11/2009
Subject: Re: [Bulk] RE: [AquaticLife] Wow! Aquarium Accident

They managed to get the lions into their den, where they were locked up, tranquilized the deer, and brought it to the animal hospital. This happened after they cleared the area of visitors. The deer's injuries were determined to be too severe to treat, and they euthanized it. \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Lenny V. aka GoldLenny Sent: Wednesday, November 11, 2009 1:34 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [Bulk] RE: [AquaticLife] Wow! Aquarium Accident Do you know if any video exists of how the deer was eventually *rescued*, only to be put down? The last I can find is of the deer swimming around in the moat and a zoo-cop moving people away from the exhibit. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Steve Szabo Sent: Tuesday, November 10, 2009 11:51 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [Bulk] RE: [AquaticLife] Wow! Aquarium Accident Lenny, I saw it on the local TV here., and the story is on their website, which I look at nearly every day. I'm sure all the DC stations carried it. \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Lenny V. aka GoldLenny Sent: Wednesday, November 11, 2009 12:28 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [Bulk] RE: [AquaticLife] Wow! Aquarium Accident Well, that's why I threw in the "Last but not least" catch-all paragraph. ;-) And if you don't have an LFS or other pet store with fish tanks... go here... http://www.montereybayaquarium.org/efc/cam_menu.aspx and look at live webcams (7AM-7PM PT) of the various aquariums and exhibits. Best viewed during feeding times. Speaking of which, did anyone else see the Lions get that baby deer *almost-a-meal* at The National Zoo in Washington, D.C... Story - http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/worldnews/article-1226468/The-moment-baby-de er-leaps-lion-enclosure-zoo--manages-escape.html with 14-part Video on YouTube at the bottom. Them Lions must have felt like a kid in a candy store for a little while. ;-) Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Amber Berglund Sent: Tuesday, November 10, 2009 10:27 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [Bulk] RE: [AquaticLife] Wow! Aquarium Accident Unless your Amber and live on an island in Alaska. LOL. The biggest aquarium display we ever had was about 500 gallons and it was a saltwater display at a local seafood seller (fresh seafood), but unfortunately they took it down at some point years ago and put it in someone's backyard where it ended up cracked. I think it's still sitting in their backyard, only been, oh.. 10 years? LOL. Amber Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > > Dora, > > They can go pay admission to the usually, already, tax-payer > subsidized GIANT public aquariums that already exist in so many > cities... or they can go to one of the MANY restaurants that have BIG > aquariums and see the aquarium for free... many, many in most cities. > > We use to have a restaurant/bar down here called Sharky's Reef that > had a HUGE shark aquarium, probably in the 50,000G range, with about a > dozen sharks and it had free entrance during the day to the restaurant... > although > at night, when it became a club, there was a cover charge to us guys > looking to chum the waters and catch something. > > Landry's Restaurants is a BIG chain of theme restaurants > http://www.landrysrestaurants.com/pages/restaurants/pg_restaurants.htm > <http://www.landrysrestaurants.com/pages/restaurants/pg_restaurants.ht > m> > and > many of them are set around a HUGE aquarium or other water-type theme.... > like a rain forest, etc. > > Last but not least, they can go see all the aquariums they want by > visiting local fish stores (LFS) and big-box pet stores... at no cost > to us tax-payers. > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> (Links to any articles referenced in > above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels > and also under Archives by Year, Month) > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On Behalf Of Dora Smith > Sent: Tuesday, November 10, 2009 8:53 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Subject: Re: [Bulk] RE: [AquaticLife] Wow! Aquarium Accident > > We like to see aquariums - why shouldn't the public? > > Yours, > Dora Smith > Austin, TX > tiggernut24@... <mailto:tiggernut24%40yahoo.com> > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@... > <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com>> > To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>> > Sent: Tuesday, November 10, 2009 8:09 PM > Subject: [Bulk] RE: [AquaticLife] Wow! Aquarium Accident > > I hope she has more than 10/20/10 insurance. :-O > > Poor fish... 90% died that day.... but even worse, poor taxpayers for > the airport (a government agency) spending $200,000.00 on a stupid art > project... a 1,500G tank that a private entity/person could have > probably set up for a fraction of that cost. > > GlassCages.com sells 500G acrylic tanks for $2,200 so I'm sure a > 1,500G would be in the $10,000.00 PLUS range, just for the tank, but still... > $200.000.00????? Of course, building it outside, instead of inside, > also means a LOT more money spent on temperature control but if it had > been built inside, it would have cost a LOT less and it might also > still be around today... and it would have saved hundreds of thousands > of tax-payer dollars over the past 10 years. > > Here's the original story on TampaBay.com, with more info and a picture. > http://www.tampabay.com/news/publicsafety/accidents/woman-with-boy-in- > lap-pl > <http://www.tampabay.com/news/publicsafety/accidents/woman-with-boy-in > -lap-pl> > ows-truck-into-tia-wall-destroying-aquarium/1050673 > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> (Links to any articles referenced in > above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels > and also under Archives by Year, Month)

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 44403	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 11/11/2009
Subject: Re: wisteria/lighting previous question/response revisited

Lenny, I don't need no steenkin' hack. In Firefox, the bookmarks are kept as they should be, as one file, not each bookmark in a separate file gobbling up disk space as IE does. It also eats up space in the MFT (Master File Table). For those who do not know about such things, when a drive is formatted to hold data, it is broken up into groups of sectors, known as clusters, the value of which defaults, in Windows, to 4K (4096 bytes). They can be any value from 512 bytes to at least 32K (it may be even larger now, with NTFS (new technology file system, but 32K was the limit under 16 bit DOS). When a file is written to disk, using 4K cluster size for the example, it takes up as many clusters as needed. So, a file that is 32K in size would use 8 clusters (4K x 8). A file that is 28K would use 7 clusters (28 k/4K=7). However, a file that is 29K would use 8 clusters. It would fill the 7 clusters, with an extra 1024 bytes, which are placed in the next, or 8th cluster, leaving 3K of that cluster as being unavailable to another file. Consider now, that each bookmark is generally less than 1K (1024 bytes). When you are using IE (Internet Explorer), that means that you are wasting 3K of each available cluster to store the bookmark as a file. Let us assume you have 400 bookmarks. I am sure you can do the math. That would mean that you have 400 files, each taking up 4K of disk space, meaning that you are using 1600K to store those files. This means that 400 entries are placed in the MFT. In the case of Firefox, and other browsers not based on IE, all the bookmarks are stored in a file. Say that you have the same 400 bookmarks, using 1K as the size of each bookmark, on average, that would mean that you have a file that is 400K in size, which (conveniently, it seems) works out to a 100K file, stored in 25 clusters and 1 entry in the MFT. A great savings in disk space. There are other issues to consider here as well, but I am sure you are plenty bored by know. However, (oh no!, he's going to say more even though he said he was done) please keep in mind that drive manufacturers use a decimal system to calculate drive sizes, so that 250GB drive you have in your box is not 250GB to the computer, which uses a binary system to calculate drive size. That is why, when you look at the drive size through your operating system, the drive appears to be smaller than advertised. It's kind of like that 55 gallon tank that actually holds less than 55 gallons. Tank measurements are measuring the outside dimensions of the tank not the inside dimensions, plus, none of use fills a tank right to the top of the tank, giving us an actual capacity of somewhat less than 55 gallons, and that is before we add substrate and decorations, fish, and plants to the tank, each displacing a certain amount of water. (You may insert your own Archimedes joke here.) (Notice how I actually brought this back onto an aquarium topic?) \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Lenny V. aka GoldLenny Sent: Wednesday, November 11, 2009 1:30 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: wisteria/lighting previous question/response revisited Yeah... I keep kind of hoping that Google will eventually provide an online "Bookmarks/Favorites" service or homepage add-in, which would also include a search feature and maybe even a way to scan for bad links in the Bookmarks/Favorites instead of finding out when you go to use that long kept bookmark/favorite and the site no longer exists... of course, there's always the Wayback Machine at the Internet Archive http://www.archive.org to find websites/pages that have disappeared from the net. I regularly go into my IE Favorites and use the "Organize Favorites" feature to move things around but also will use Windows Explorer, C:\Documents and Settings\Owner\Favorites\, to look at my Favorites folder and drag and drop, move and rename things around in there. Then, there is this Registry hack to mass sort the Favorites folder, sub-folders and files, instead of having to "Sort By Name" inside each folder. From http://www.theeldergeek.com/sort_favorites_menu_alphabetical.htm (with some added instructions by me to clarify some things). Sort Favorites Menu Alphabetically [Start] [Run] [Regedit] Registry Key: HKEY_CURRENT_USER\Software\Microsoft\Windows\CurrentVersion\Explorer\MenuOrd er\Favorites (Click on Favorites to highlight, then in the view panel) Right click the Favorites key *Order* and click Delete Exit registry and reboot. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Steve Szabo Sent: Tuesday, November 10, 2009 11:43 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: wisteria/lighting previous question/response revisited Lenny, I have a couple of problems. First, I do have a lot of folders and sub folders for things, and try to use them. However, I can also be pressed for time, and just bookmark it, thinking I'll fix it later. Somehow, later comes even later than one would expect, and when it does arrive, I do a bunch, but never finish going through the list. The other problem is that what made sense at the time, may not make sense when I am looking for the bookmark, possible because I a thinking about the topic in a different way than when I bookmarked the site. It is kind of like how one searches the web. If your first key words do not provide what you are looking for, you modify those terms and search again. Same topic, a bit different way of looking at it. Eventually, you will get what you want. What I probably need is a bookmark search engine. For those of you who were born and weaned with Windows, bookmarks is the correct term, not Microsoft's Favorites, though, I must admit, it is possible to have favorite bookmarks. \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Lenny V. aka GoldLenny Sent: Tuesday, November 10, 2009 11:57 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: wisteria/lighting previous question/response revisited Bookmarks and Favorites are filing systems... if you don't know how/where it's filed, you won't find it anyhow. I have an extensive Favorites folder with dozens of primary folders and then dozens if not hundreds of sub-folders and sub-sub-folders, for example, under Favorites, I have 59 primary folders and one of them is called Aquarium Sites, then, in that folder, I have 44 alphabetized sub-folders just in that folder, from Additives and Algae to Tutorials-Quizzes and UGF Filters (no V,W,X,Y,Z sub-folders under Aquarium... not sure why not). Then in the Algae folder, I have 7 sub-sub-folders dealing with topics such as Algae Eaters, Allelopathic Control, Diatoms-Brown Algae, Hair Algae, Hydrogen Peroxide, Pond Algae, SeaChem Flourish Excel For Treating Algae and then 11 other favorites about Algae in general, for a total of 48 links, just about Algae. My Favorites folder, when looking at its Properties, is 1.41MB in size and consists of 2,057 files (links) and 306 folders (incl. sub and sub-sub folders) in totality. Many years of surfing and saving and starting off with an organizational plan from the start makes it easy for me to navigate and find things easily. My Favorites is like a mini-Google. ;-) I have been toying around with the idea of using a web resource to keep my Favorites folder online so I can sync it with all of my computers and/or just use it as an online Favorites folder that I can log into from any computer. For now, I use LogMeIn (Free) to connect to my main computer from my laptop when I'm out in the streets playing... oops.. I meant working. But I don't think I'd share my Favorites or then I'd have to go in and edit out all my favorite porn links... well, maybe not for Bill. LOL Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Amber Berglund Sent: Tuesday, November 10, 2009 10:25 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: wisteria/lighting previous question/response revisited No worries Bill, I do the same thing, maybe Lenny will be so kind as to send us all his bookmarks? LOL Amber bill 1433 wrote: > > Yes, Amber > > It was I, looking for the original information and also looked back on > \\Steve//'s post at group to try and find. Ray had mentioned all this > the other day saying that he thought the posting came from \\Steve//. > > I was not successful in my search. Also, for me the most important > part was a link to a chart which showed you exactly, or explained > exactly the "T" factor stands for. For instance, T-4 would be a tube > that is a half inch wide, or close to it-----------I think. All this > is my own fault. In my interest to acquire and learn about lighting,I > went through and studied the applied links but being ol'bill, I never > bookmarked them. Then to further compound the problem, I deleted the > original message that it came from. In hind-sight you could probably > chalk this all up to felonious stupidity on my part. > > Bill---where its always a good day if I learn something new! > > --- On Tue, 11/10/09, Amber Berglund <arberglund@... > <mailto:arberglund%40gmail.com>> wrote: > > From: Amber Berglund <arberglund@... > <mailto:arberglund%40gmail.com>> > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: wisteria/lighting previous > question/response revisited > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Date: Tuesday, November 10, 2009, 9:30 PM > > I believe it was Steve who posted a link about lumens months back when > (I think it was maybe Bill asking) about lighting for planted aquariums. > Plants require 2 different spectrums of light to properly produce > either leaves or flowers (red is more for flower production and blue > is more for growth, but for the best growing you want a mixture of BOTH colors). > So in reality you would want a light that appears more brown/reddish > in coloring and a blue/white coloring as well, but they now have bulbs > that have BOTH spectrums built in (I'm sure they don't work as well as > it would to have 2 different bulbs one mostly red and the other mostly > blue on the color spectrum). > Let me see if I still have the link bookmarked. > What I was trying to say is that Kelvin does not tell you what color > spectrum the light REALLY is, it's actually measuring it's light > output color according to how the human eyes perceive it. So 6500 > kelvin in general is what most plants will prefer because that is a > mixture of both red and blue spectrums (In MOST bulbs) unfortunately > not all light bulb manufactures have to use the exact same chart for > their colors, so they will have different colors than another bulb > that says it's 6500 Kelvin. what you really need to read is the color > chart on the box, not what lumens it says it is. > (still searching for link, LOL). > > This isn't the right link but it discusses the kelvin/lumen problems a > little bit, still looking for the link that showed the charts and what > to look for in the color charts. > http://www.americanaquariumproducts.com/Aquarium_Lighting.html > <http://www.americanaquariumproducts.com/Aquarium_Lighting.html> > > Will post again when I find the other link with chart examples. > > Amber > > Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > > > > I think it would be false advertising or possibly mis-advertising > (if they > > do not know any better) if a company lists their bulbs as 6500K and > > they aren't. The Kelvin scale, just like Watts and Lumens, are ALL > > universal and scientifically measurable scales BUT, as I showed > > below, not all 40 watt bulbs put out the same amount of light > > (lumens) or in the same color spectrum (Kelvin rating). All 40 watt > > bulbs, whether incandescent, fluorescent, CFL, LED, Halogen, etc.... > > ALL use only/around 40 watts of electricity but their light output > > can vary dramatically. This is why fluorescent bulbs are so much > > more efficient than incandescent bulbs and CFL's are even more > > efficient... as a 40W fluorescent bulb puts out > a LOT > > more light (lumens) than a 40 watt incandescent bulb and a 40W CFL > > puts out more light (lumens) than a 40W fluorescent bulb. This is > > why the OLD "Watts Per Gallon" rule simply does not work any more. > > > > BUT.. if three different companies are selling standard T-10 > > fluorescent bulbs with the same exact rating of 40W, 3550 lumens and > > 6500K rating... all three of those bulbs should be VERY SIMILAR if > > not identical in the way they appear to our eyes (subject to our own > > degree of color blindness, of > > course!) > > > > In the past, things like "soft white", "warm white", "daylight", > > "plant grow", etc., type terms were used and are still used but > > those are just simple words (not subject to a scientific scale) to > > describe the Kelvin rating ranges but lumens are just as important > > since a bulb could have a 6500K rating with only 2200 lumens where > > another bulb could have a 6500K rating and 3550 or 3700 lumens and > > that bulb would put out over 50% more light (lumens) in the same > > color spectrum (Kelvin rating) so it > would be a > > much more cost effective bulb if it cost the same amount or only a > little > > more. > > > > I'm slightly confused about the "red and blue light for your plants" > > as those two colors are on opposite ends of the Kelvin Scale with > > reds and ambers in the lower numbers and greens and blues in the > > higher > numbers. I > > think this is why you would want a mid-range (5000K to 6500K) bulb > > as those are generally considered "full spectrum" or "daylight" > > bulbs. Here's a color picture of the Kelvin Scale, > > http://www.bltdirect.com/images/colour-temperature.jpg > <http://www.bltdirect.com/images/colour-temperature.jpg> > > <http://www.bltdirect.com/images/colour-temperature.jpg > <http://www.bltdirect.com/images/colour-temperature.jpg>> and you can > > visually > > see that the 5000K to 6500K range is all about the same "color". I > > think this is also why Actinic bulbs are usually higher and closer > > to the > 10000K > > range and up... apparently, the Kelvin lighting scale can go up to > 20,000K > > (according to this article about Reef Tanks > > http://nh.craigslist.org/for/1423072406.html > <http://nh.craigslist.org/for/1423072406.html> > > <http://nh.craigslist.org/for/1423072406.html > <http://nh.craigslist.org/for/1423072406.html>> on, of all places, > > Craigslist). > > Here is the page that that the above photo link came from and it has > > a chart that also explains things a little more also and talks about > > the > CRI, yet > > another lighting term (Color Rendition Index). > > http://www.bltdirect.com/lampColourTemperatures.php > <http://www.bltdirect.com/lampColourTemperatures.php> > > <http://www.bltdirect.com/lampColourTemperatures.php > <http://www.bltdirect.com/lampColourTemperatures.php>> > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>> > > (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the > > right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by > > Year, > Month) > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On Behalf Of Amber Berglund > > Sent: Tuesday, November 10, 2009 4:22 PM > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: wisteria/lighting previous > > question/response revisited > > > > Another thing to consider is one light company's 6500 kelvin rating > > may not be identical to another light bulb from a different company > > that's rated the same. The important thing to look at is the color > > chart they show on the boxes, you want more red and blue light for > > your plants, green is not useful or harmful as the plants reflect > > the light back (makes them appear more green but does nothing else > > for them). The kelvin rating is based on our eyes and how they > > perceive color, so each company doesn't have to be identical, > > perhaps some day they will have a universal way to measure light > > spectrums on bulbs that is much less confusing. > > > > Amber > > > > Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > > > > > > OK. So you have a total of 80 watts right now, which is just over > > > 1 WPG, which means you only have enough lighting for low-light, > > > easy to grow plants. See my blog article "Planted Tank: So You > > > Want A Planted Tank" for links to lists of low-light, easy to grow > > > plants that will do OK in your tank. You should replace those tubes at least yearly... > > > although some say every six months. As far as I know, a 40W bulb > > > is the highest wattage made for this type of bulb/fixture right > > > now but you can increase your lighting > > > (lumens) and K (Kelvin) rating. See below. > > > > > > NOTE - below links are for example/informational purposes only, as > > > I know nothing about the sites. God... did I just say that? Do I > > > really have to add disclaimers to my posts now? LOL Just laughing at myself. > > > LOL > > > > > > This may be your Sylvania bulb... > > > http://www.lightbulbemporium.com/proddetail.asp?prod=F40/EX50 > <http://www.lightbulbemporium.com/proddetail.asp?prod=F40/EX50> > > <http://www.lightbulbemporium.com/proddetail.asp?prod=F40/EX50 > <http://www.lightbulbemporium.com/proddetail.asp?prod=F40/EX50>> > > > <http://www.lightbulbemporium.com/proddetail.asp?prod=F40/EX50 > <http://www.lightbulbemporium.com/proddetail.asp?prod=F40/EX50> > > <http://www.lightbulbemporium.com/proddetail.asp?prod=F40/EX50 > <http://www.lightbulbemporium.com/proddetail.asp?prod=F40/EX50>>> and > if > > > it is, then it's the same ratings as the specs in the T-10 bulb > > > that I copy/pasted below, which is a pretty good bulb with higher > > > lumens and the higher K rating, although not a 6500K rated bulb. > > > At the bottom of this page, there was a link to this bulb... > > > > > > http://www.lightbulbemporium.com/maxlite_51204_ml_f40t10_850_rscg.asp > <http://www.lightbulbemporium.com/maxlite_51204_ml_f40t10_850_rscg.asp > > > > > <http://www.lightbulbemporium.com/maxlite_51204_ml_f40t10_850_rscg.asp > <http://www.lightbulbemporium.com/maxlite_51204_ml_f40t10_850_rscg.asp > >> > > > > > > <http://www.lightbulbemporium.com/maxlite_51204_ml_f40t10_850_rscg.asp > <http://www.lightbulbemporium.com/maxlite_51204_ml_f40t10_850_rscg.asp > > > > > <http://www.lightbulbemporium.com/maxlite_51204_ml_f40t10_850_rscg.asp > <http://www.lightbulbemporium.com/maxlite_51204_ml_f40t10_850_rscg.asp > >> > > > > > > > which > > > has an even higher lumen rating of 3700, although not much higher > > > than the 3550 rating but every little bit helps especially since > > > the MaxLite bulb was a lower price than the Sylvania bulb. > > > > > > As you will see on this page > > > > > > http://www.lightbulbsdirect.com/Merchant2/merchant.mvc?page=001/CTGY/F > <http://www.lightbulbsdirect.com/Merchant2/merchant.mvc?page=001/CTGY/ > F> > > > <http://www.lightbulbsdirect.com/Merchant2/merchant.mvc?page=001/CTGY/ > F > <http://www.lightbulbsdirect.com/Merchant2/merchant.mvc?page=001/CTGY/ > F>> > > > S+Fluo > > > > > > <http://www.lightbulbsdirect.com/Merchant2/merchant.mvc?page=001/CTGY/ > <http://www.lightbulbsdirect.com/Merchant2/merchant.mvc?page=001/CTGY/ > > > > > <http://www.lightbulbsdirect.com/Merchant2/merchant.mvc?page=001/CTGY/ > <http://www.lightbulbsdirect.com/Merchant2/merchant.mvc?page=001/CTGY/ > >> > > > FS+Fluo> > > > rescent > > > > > > The second bulb down would be similar to yours, except we do not > > > know the lumen or color spectrum rating on your bulb, unless that > > > link I gave above is actually your bulb and then it would be the > > > same as this one. The specs on it are: > > > > > > T-10 Fluorescent > > > 40 Watts > > > Length: 48" > > > Medium Bi-Pin Base > > > Color: 5000K Temperature > > > Initial Lumens: 3550 > > > CRI: 84 > > > Average Life: 20,000 Hours > > > > > > The Color spectrum of 5000K (Kelvin) is OK but 6500K would be much > > better. > > > The Lumens of 3550 is the actual amount of *light* > > > > > > The next bulb down from that one is a T-12, which will also fit in > > > your fixture but they are bigger diameter bulbs and this one > > > actually puts out less light (lumens). Here are the specs: > > > > > > T-12 Fluorescent > > > 40 Watts > > > Length: 48" > > > Base: Medium Bi-Pin Base > > > Initial Lumens: 2200 > > > Average Life: 20,000 Hours > > > Color Temperature: 5000K > > > CRI: 92 > > > > > > It has the same Color spectrum but only 2200 lumens so the above > > > T-10 bulb has around 50% more lumens (light) coming out of it. > > > > > > Now, if you scroll down to the second from the bottom on the page, > > > you'll see the Verilux Instant-Sun T-12 bulb which has a higher > > > Kelvin rating but it doesn't list the lumens so this needs to be > > > checked out further. While the higher K rating is good, if it goes > > > back down to only 2200 lumens, instead of the 3550 lumens of the > > > first referenced bulb above, then I would probably go with the > > > 3550 lumens, 5000K bulb over the 6280K bulb if the lumens were a LOT less. > > > > > > (START SNIP) > > > Engineered to reproduce all the colors and balance of natural > > > light, VeriluxR full spectrum fluorescent tubes feature Trucolite > > > Phosphor TechnologyT which includes the use of a stable, custom > > > blend of earth phosphors that create bright, balanced full spectrum light. > > > T-12 Fluorescent > > > 40 Watts > > > Length: 48" > > > Color Temperature: 6280K > > > CRI: 94 > > > Medium Bi-Pin Base > > > (END SNIP) > > > > > > So, as you can see, there's a few things to look for when shopping > > > for new replacement bulbs. Look for the 5000K to 6500K bulbs with > > > the higher lumen rating for the dollar and you should be good. > > > Note that a 3550 or 3700 lumen bulb will put out nearly twice as > > > much light as a 2000 lumen bulb so it can be easy to increase your > > > lighting without increasing the wattage. DO NOT try to use HO or > > > VHO bulbs... which look similar but have much higher wattage, well > > > over the 40W bulbs you now have. These other HO and VHO bulbs have > > > different pin arrangements so they will not fit in your fixture > > > anyhow but I just wanted to save you a trip. > > > > > > Last but not least, if you're handy, you could even take the bulbs > > > out of your fixtures and line the insides of your fixtures with > > > nice and crisp and flat aluminum foil (shiny side exposed) which > > > will also help. Using double stick tape and then carefully > > > applying the foil so it does not wrinkle too much will work > > > well... especially if the inside of your fixture is black. A white > > > reflector is good but a mirrored reflector, like that created by > > > the shiny side of foil, is MUCH better than a black reflector. > > > Most black fixtures do at least have white reflector areas. > > > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>> > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>>> > > (Links to any articles referenced in > > > above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under > > > Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On Behalf Of > > > erikaandnewton > > > Sent: Tuesday, November 10, 2009 10:17 AM > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: wisteria/lighting previous > > > question/response revisited > > > > > > << When you say "two strips" do you have two 4' long two-bulb > > > fixtures already or something else?>> > > > > > > i have two 4' single bulb strip lights. > > > > > > >> What kind of lighting do you currently have? Look at the bulbs > > > >> and there should be some kind of writing on one of the ends. > > > >> Give us that info if you cannot decipher it yourself.<< > > > > > > one bulb is a f40 t10 > > > the other one is a sylvania daylight bulb also f40 > > > > > > >> It's probably 21" tall, since a common measurement for a 75G is > > > >> 48"x18"x21" Tall.>> > > > > > > it is 21 inches tall > > > > > > erika wilmington de usa

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 44404	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 11/11/2009
Subject: Re: wisteria/lighting previous question/response revisited

Lenny, Take a look at Xmarks that will keep a master copy of your bookmarks and sync them between the major browsers. Something like http://www.xmarks.org off the top of my head, not bookmarked <g>. I use it for synching several computers I use on a regular basis. \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Lenny V. aka GoldLenny Sent: Wednesday, November 11, 2009 1:30 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: wisteria/lighting previous question/response revisited Yeah... I keep kind of hoping that Google will eventually provide an online "Bookmarks/Favorites" service or homepage add-in, which would also include a search feature and maybe even a way to scan for bad links in the Bookmarks/Favorites instead of finding out when you go to use that long kept bookmark/favorite and the site no longer exists... of course, there's always the Wayback Machine at the Internet Archive http://www.archive.org to find websites/pages that have disappeared from the net. I regularly go into my IE Favorites and use the "Organize Favorites" feature to move things around but also will use Windows Explorer, C:\Documents and Settings\Owner\Favorites\, to look at my Favorites folder and drag and drop, move and rename things around in there. Then, there is this Registry hack to mass sort the Favorites folder, sub-folders and files, instead of having to "Sort By Name" inside each folder. From http://www.theeldergeek.com/sort_favorites_menu_alphabetical.htm (with some added instructions by me to clarify some things). Sort Favorites Menu Alphabetically [Start] [Run] [Regedit] Registry Key: HKEY_CURRENT_USER\Software\Microsoft\Windows\CurrentVersion\Explorer\MenuOrd er\Favorites (Click on Favorites to highlight, then in the view panel) Right click the Favorites key *Order* and click Delete Exit registry and reboot. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Steve Szabo Sent: Tuesday, November 10, 2009 11:43 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: wisteria/lighting previous question/response revisited Lenny, I have a couple of problems. First, I do have a lot of folders and sub folders for things, and try to use them. However, I can also be pressed for time, and just bookmark it, thinking I'll fix it later. Somehow, later comes even later than one would expect, and when it does arrive, I do a bunch, but never finish going through the list. The other problem is that what made sense at the time, may not make sense when I am looking for the bookmark, possible because I a thinking about the topic in a different way than when I bookmarked the site. It is kind of like how one searches the web. If your first key words do not provide what you are looking for, you modify those terms and search again. Same topic, a bit different way of looking at it. Eventually, you will get what you want. What I probably need is a bookmark search engine. For those of you who were born and weaned with Windows, bookmarks is the correct term, not Microsoft's Favorites, though, I must admit, it is possible to have favorite bookmarks. \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Lenny V. aka GoldLenny Sent: Tuesday, November 10, 2009 11:57 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: wisteria/lighting previous question/response revisited Bookmarks and Favorites are filing systems... if you don't know how/where it's filed, you won't find it anyhow. I have an extensive Favorites folder with dozens of primary folders and then dozens if not hundreds of sub-folders and sub-sub-folders, for example, under Favorites, I have 59 primary folders and one of them is called Aquarium Sites, then, in that folder, I have 44 alphabetized sub-folders just in that folder, from Additives and Algae to Tutorials-Quizzes and UGF Filters (no V,W,X,Y,Z sub-folders under Aquarium... not sure why not). Then in the Algae folder, I have 7 sub-sub-folders dealing with topics such as Algae Eaters, Allelopathic Control, Diatoms-Brown Algae, Hair Algae, Hydrogen Peroxide, Pond Algae, SeaChem Flourish Excel For Treating Algae and then 11 other favorites about Algae in general, for a total of 48 links, just about Algae. My Favorites folder, when looking at its Properties, is 1.41MB in size and consists of 2,057 files (links) and 306 folders (incl. sub and sub-sub folders) in totality. Many years of surfing and saving and starting off with an organizational plan from the start makes it easy for me to navigate and find things easily. My Favorites is like a mini-Google. ;-) I have been toying around with the idea of using a web resource to keep my Favorites folder online so I can sync it with all of my computers and/or just use it as an online Favorites folder that I can log into from any computer. For now, I use LogMeIn (Free) to connect to my main computer from my laptop when I'm out in the streets playing... oops.. I meant working. But I don't think I'd share my Favorites or then I'd have to go in and edit out all my favorite porn links... well, maybe not for Bill. LOL Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Amber Berglund Sent: Tuesday, November 10, 2009 10:25 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: wisteria/lighting previous question/response revisited No worries Bill, I do the same thing, maybe Lenny will be so kind as to send us all his bookmarks? LOL Amber bill 1433 wrote: > > Yes, Amber > > It was I, looking for the original information and also looked back on > \\Steve//'s post at group to try and find. Ray had mentioned all this > the other day saying that he thought the posting came from \\Steve//. > > I was not successful in my search. Also, for me the most important > part was a link to a chart which showed you exactly, or explained > exactly the "T" factor stands for. For instance, T-4 would be a tube > that is a half inch wide, or close to it-----------I think. All this > is my own fault. In my interest to acquire and learn about lighting,I > went through and studied the applied links but being ol'bill, I never > bookmarked them. Then to further compound the problem, I deleted the > original message that it came from. In hind-sight you could probably > chalk this all up to felonious stupidity on my part. > > Bill---where its always a good day if I learn something new! > > --- On Tue, 11/10/09, Amber Berglund <arberglund@... > <mailto:arberglund%40gmail.com>> wrote: > > From: Amber Berglund <arberglund@... > <mailto:arberglund%40gmail.com>> > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: wisteria/lighting previous > question/response revisited > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Date: Tuesday, November 10, 2009, 9:30 PM > > I believe it was Steve who posted a link about lumens months back when > (I think it was maybe Bill asking) about lighting for planted aquariums. > Plants require 2 different spectrums of light to properly produce > either leaves or flowers (red is more for flower production and blue > is more for growth, but for the best growing you want a mixture of BOTH colors). > So in reality you would want a light that appears more brown/reddish > in coloring and a blue/white coloring as well, but they now have bulbs > that have BOTH spectrums built in (I'm sure they don't work as well as > it would to have 2 different bulbs one mostly red and the other mostly > blue on the color spectrum). > Let me see if I still have the link bookmarked. > What I was trying to say is that Kelvin does not tell you what color > spectrum the light REALLY is, it's actually measuring it's light > output color according to how the human eyes perceive it. So 6500 > kelvin in general is what most plants will prefer because that is a > mixture of both red and blue spectrums (In MOST bulbs) unfortunately > not all light bulb manufactures have to use the exact same chart for > their colors, so they will have different colors than another bulb > that says it's 6500 Kelvin. what you really need to read is the color > chart on the box, not what lumens it says it is. > (still searching for link, LOL). > > This isn't the right link but it discusses the kelvin/lumen problems a > little bit, still looking for the link that showed the charts and what > to look for in the color charts. > http://www.americanaquariumproducts.com/Aquarium_Lighting.html > <http://www.americanaquariumproducts.com/Aquarium_Lighting.html> > > Will post again when I find the other link with chart examples. > > Amber > > Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > > > > I think it would be false advertising or possibly mis-advertising > (if they > > do not know any better) if a company lists their bulbs as 6500K and > > they aren't. The Kelvin scale, just like Watts and Lumens, are ALL > > universal and scientifically measurable scales BUT, as I showed > > below, not all 40 watt bulbs put out the same amount of light > > (lumens) or in the same color spectrum (Kelvin rating). All 40 watt > > bulbs, whether incandescent, fluorescent, CFL, LED, Halogen, etc.... > > ALL use only/around 40 watts of electricity but their light output > > can vary dramatically. This is why fluorescent bulbs are so much > > more efficient than incandescent bulbs and CFL's are even more > > efficient... as a 40W fluorescent bulb puts out > a LOT > > more light (lumens) than a 40 watt incandescent bulb and a 40W CFL > > puts out more light (lumens) than a 40W fluorescent bulb. This is > > why the OLD "Watts Per Gallon" rule simply does not work any more. > > > > BUT.. if three different companies are selling standard T-10 > > fluorescent bulbs with the same exact rating of 40W, 3550 lumens and > > 6500K rating... all three of those bulbs should be VERY SIMILAR if > > not identical in the way they appear to our eyes (subject to our own > > degree of color blindness, of > > course!) > > > > In the past, things like "soft white", "warm white", "daylight", > > "plant grow", etc., type terms were used and are still used but > > those are just simple words (not subject to a scientific scale) to > > describe the Kelvin rating ranges but lumens are just as important > > since a bulb could have a 6500K rating with only 2200 lumens where > > another bulb could have a 6500K rating and 3550 or 3700 lumens and > > that bulb would put out over 50% more light (lumens) in the same > > color spectrum (Kelvin rating) so it > would be a > > much more cost effective bulb if it cost the same amount or only a > little > > more. > > > > I'm slightly confused about the "red and blue light for your plants" > > as those two colors are on opposite ends of the Kelvin Scale with > > reds and ambers in the lower numbers and greens and blues in the > > higher > numbers. I > > think this is why you would want a mid-range (5000K to 6500K) bulb > > as those are generally considered "full spectrum" or "daylight" > > bulbs. Here's a color picture of the Kelvin Scale, > > http://www.bltdirect.com/images/colour-temperature.jpg > <http://www.bltdirect.com/images/colour-temperature.jpg> > > <http://www.bltdirect.com/images/colour-temperature.jpg > <http://www.bltdirect.com/images/colour-temperature.jpg>> and you can > > visually > > see that the 5000K to 6500K range is all about the same "color". I > > think this is also why Actinic bulbs are usually higher and closer > > to the > 10000K > > range and up... apparently, the Kelvin lighting scale can go up to > 20,000K > > (according to this article about Reef Tanks > > http://nh.craigslist.org/for/1423072406.html > <http://nh.craigslist.org/for/1423072406.html> > > <http://nh.craigslist.org/for/1423072406.html > <http://nh.craigslist.org/for/1423072406.html>> on, of all places, > > Craigslist). > > Here is the page that that the above photo link came from and it has > > a chart that also explains things a little more also and talks about > > the > CRI, yet > > another lighting term (Color Rendition Index). > > http://www.bltdirect.com/lampColourTemperatures.php > <http://www.bltdirect.com/lampColourTemperatures.php> > > <http://www.bltdirect.com/lampColourTemperatures.php > <http://www.bltdirect.com/lampColourTemperatures.php>> > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>> > > (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the > > right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by > > Year, > Month) > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On Behalf Of Amber Berglund > > Sent: Tuesday, November 10, 2009 4:22 PM > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: wisteria/lighting previous > > question/response revisited > > > > Another thing to consider is one light company's 6500 kelvin rating > > may not be identical to another light bulb from a different company > > that's rated the same. The important thing to look at is the color > > chart they show on the boxes, you want more red and blue light for > > your plants, green is not useful or harmful as the plants reflect > > the light back (makes them appear more green but does nothing else > > for them). The kelvin rating is based on our eyes and how they > > perceive color, so each company doesn't have to be identical, > > perhaps some day they will have a universal way to measure light > > spectrums on bulbs that is much less confusing. > > > > Amber > > > > Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > > > > > > OK. So you have a total of 80 watts right now, which is just over > > > 1 WPG, which means you only have enough lighting for low-light, > > > easy to grow plants. See my blog article "Planted Tank: So You > > > Want A Planted Tank" for links to lists of low-light, easy to grow > > > plants that will do OK in your tank. You should replace those tubes at least yearly... > > > although some say every six months. As far as I know, a 40W bulb > > > is the highest wattage made for this type of bulb/fixture right > > > now but you can increase your lighting > > > (lumens) and K (Kelvin) rating. See below. > > > > > > NOTE - below links are for example/informational purposes only, as > > > I know nothing about the sites. God... did I just say that? Do I > > > really have to add disclaimers to my posts now? LOL Just laughing at myself. > > > LOL > > > > > > This may be your Sylvania bulb... > > > http://www.lightbulbemporium.com/proddetail.asp?prod=F40/EX50 > <http://www.lightbulbemporium.com/proddetail.asp?prod=F40/EX50> > > <http://www.lightbulbemporium.com/proddetail.asp?prod=F40/EX50 > <http://www.lightbulbemporium.com/proddetail.asp?prod=F40/EX50>> > > > <http://www.lightbulbemporium.com/proddetail.asp?prod=F40/EX50 > <http://www.lightbulbemporium.com/proddetail.asp?prod=F40/EX50> > > <http://www.lightbulbemporium.com/proddetail.asp?prod=F40/EX50 > <http://www.lightbulbemporium.com/proddetail.asp?prod=F40/EX50>>> and > if > > > it is, then it's the same ratings as the specs in the T-10 bulb > > > that I copy/pasted below, which is a pretty good bulb with higher > > > lumens and the higher K rating, although not a 6500K rated bulb. > > > At the bottom of this page, there was a link to this bulb... > > > > > > http://www.lightbulbemporium.com/maxlite_51204_ml_f40t10_850_rscg.asp > <http://www.lightbulbemporium.com/maxlite_51204_ml_f40t10_850_rscg.asp > > > > > <http://www.lightbulbemporium.com/maxlite_51204_ml_f40t10_850_rscg.asp > <http://www.lightbulbemporium.com/maxlite_51204_ml_f40t10_850_rscg.asp > >> > > > > > > <http://www.lightbulbemporium.com/maxlite_51204_ml_f40t10_850_rscg.asp > <http://www.lightbulbemporium.com/maxlite_51204_ml_f40t10_850_rscg.asp > > > > > <http://www.lightbulbemporium.com/maxlite_51204_ml_f40t10_850_rscg.asp > <http://www.lightbulbemporium.com/maxlite_51204_ml_f40t10_850_rscg.asp > >> > > > > > > > which > > > has an even higher lumen rating of 3700, although not much higher > > > than the 3550 rating but every little bit helps especially since > > > the MaxLite bulb was a lower price than the Sylvania bulb. > > > > > > As you will see on this page > > > > > > http://www.lightbulbsdirect.com/Merchant2/merchant.mvc?page=001/CTGY/F > <http://www.lightbulbsdirect.com/Merchant2/merchant.mvc?page=001/CTGY/ > F> > > > <http://www.lightbulbsdirect.com/Merchant2/merchant.mvc?page=001/CTGY/ > F > <http://www.lightbulbsdirect.com/Merchant2/merchant.mvc?page=001/CTGY/ > F>> > > > S+Fluo > > > > > > <http://www.lightbulbsdirect.com/Merchant2/merchant.mvc?page=001/CTGY/ > <http://www.lightbulbsdirect.com/Merchant2/merchant.mvc?page=001/CTGY/ > > > > > <http://www.lightbulbsdirect.com/Merchant2/merchant.mvc?page=001/CTGY/ > <http://www.lightbulbsdirect.com/Merchant2/merchant.mvc?page=001/CTGY/ > >> > > > FS+Fluo> > > > rescent > > > > > > The second bulb down would be similar to yours, except we do not > > > know the lumen or color spectrum rating on your bulb, unless that > > > link I gave above is actually your bulb and then it would be the > > > same as this one. The specs on it are: > > > > > > T-10 Fluorescent > > > 40 Watts > > > Length: 48" > > > Medium Bi-Pin Base > > > Color: 5000K Temperature > > > Initial Lumens: 3550 > > > CRI: 84 > > > Average Life: 20,000 Hours > > > > > > The Color spectrum of 5000K (Kelvin) is OK but 6500K would be much > > better. > > > The Lumens of 3550 is the actual amount of *light* > > > > > > The next bulb down from that one is a T-12, which will also fit in > > > your fixture but they are bigger diameter bulbs and this one > > > actually puts out less light (lumens). Here are the specs: > > > > > > T-12 Fluorescent > > > 40 Watts > > > Length: 48" > > > Base: Medium Bi-Pin Base > > > Initial Lumens: 2200 > > > Average Life: 20,000 Hours > > > Color Temperature: 5000K > > > CRI: 92 > > > > > > It has the same Color spectrum but only 2200 lumens so the above > > > T-10 bulb has around 50% more lumens (light) coming out of it. > > > > > > Now, if you scroll down to the second from the bottom on the page, > > > you'll see the Verilux Instant-Sun T-12 bulb which has a higher > > > Kelvin rating but it doesn't list the lumens so this needs to be > > > checked out further. While the higher K rating is good, if it goes > > > back down to only 2200 lumens, instead of the 3550 lumens of the > > > first referenced bulb above, then I would probably go with the > > > 3550 lumens, 5000K bulb over the 6280K bulb if the lumens were a LOT less. > > > > > > (START SNIP) > > > Engineered to reproduce all the colors and balance of natural > > > light, VeriluxR full spectrum fluorescent tubes feature Trucolite > > > Phosphor TechnologyT which includes the use of a stable, custom > > > blend of earth phosphors that create bright, balanced full spectrum light. > > > T-12 Fluorescent > > > 40 Watts > > > Length: 48" > > > Color Temperature: 6280K > > > CRI: 94 > > > Medium Bi-Pin Base > > > (END SNIP) > > > > > > So, as you can see, there's a few things to look for when shopping > > > for new replacement bulbs. Look for the 5000K to 6500K bulbs with > > > the higher lumen rating for the dollar and you should be good. > > > Note that a 3550 or 3700 lumen bulb will put out nearly twice as > > > much light as a 2000 lumen bulb so it can be easy to increase your > > > lighting without increasing the wattage. DO NOT try to use HO or > > > VHO bulbs... which look similar but have much higher wattage, well > > > over the 40W bulbs you now have. These other HO and VHO bulbs have > > > different pin arrangements so they will not fit in your fixture > > > anyhow but I just wanted to save you a trip. > > > > > > Last but not least, if you're handy, you could even take the bulbs > > > out of your fixtures and line the insides of your fixtures with > > > nice and crisp and flat aluminum foil (shiny side exposed) which > > > will also help. Using double stick tape and then carefully > > > applying the foil so it does not wrinkle too much will work > > > well... especially if the inside of your fixture is black. A white > > > reflector is good but a mirrored reflector, like that created by > > > the shiny side of foil, is MUCH better than a black reflector. > > > Most black fixtures do at least have white reflector areas. > > > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>> > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>>> > > (Links to any articles referenced in > > > above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under > > > Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On Behalf Of > > > erikaandnewton > > > Sent: Tuesday, November 10, 2009 10:17 AM > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: wisteria/lighting previous > > > question/response revisited > > > > > > << When you say "two strips" do you have two 4' long two-bulb > > > fixtures already or something else?>> > > > > > > i have two 4' single bulb strip lights. > > > > > > >> What kind of lighting do you currently have? Look at the bulbs > > > >> and there should be some kind of writing on one of the ends. > > > >> Give us that info if you cannot decipher it yourself.<< > > > > > > one bulb is a f40 t10 > > > the other one is a sylvania daylight bulb also f40 > > > > > > >> It's probably 21" tall, since a common measurement for a 75G is > > > >> 48"x18"x21" Tall.>> > > > > > > it is 21 inches tall > > > > > > erika wilmington de usa

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 44405	From: bill 1433	Date: 11/11/2009
Subject: Re: wisteria/lighting previous question/response revisited

Len, Thanks for this post. I do have this one bookmarked this time around! Bill --- On Tue, 11/10/09, Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@...> wrote: > From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@...> > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: wisteria/lighting previous question/response revisited > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Date: Tuesday, November 10, 2009, 10:52 PM > This site I looked at and linked to > the other day had the T- ratings broken > down.  Each T number is equal to 1/8" diameter so a > T-2 would be 2/8ths or > 1/4" diameter.  A T-8 would be 8/8ths or 1".  A > T-12 would be 12/8ths or > 1.5". > http://www.servicelighting.com/Straight-Linear-Fluorescent-Light-Bulbs > > Wikipedia also has an article about T- ratings but the > above link shows it > with pictures too. LOL > > Yahoo Group's has been having MAJOR search problems for > many months and is a > known issue to Yahoo.  It has been reported many times > on the Yahoo Group's > official blog at http://www.YGroupsBlog.com and most > recently on October 6, > 2009 at > http://www.ygroupsblog.com/blog/2009/10/06/issue-update-photos-file-access-e > mail-delay/ > (SNIP) > Message search: We know we’re long overdue for a lengthy > post about this, > but the short story is, we’re currently waiting on new > hardware that will > support all of the messages and groups on the Yahoo! Groups > system. In the > meantime we are slowly moving over a small amount of groups > each week to the > new message search system. We know that you all have been > incredibly patient > with us– this is greatly appreciated. > (END SNIP) > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed > on the right > side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives > by Year, Month) > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] > On > Behalf Of bill 1433 > Sent: Tuesday, November 10, 2009 9:20 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: wisteria/lighting previous > question/response > revisited > > Yes, Amber >   > It was I, looking for the original information and also > looked back on > \\Steve//'s post at group to try and find. Ray had > mentioned all this the > other day saying that he thought the posting came from > \\Steve//. >   > I was not successful in my search.  Also, for me the most > important part was > a link to a chart which showed you exactly, or explained > exactly the "T" > factor stands for.  For instance, T-4 would be a tube that > is a half inch > wide, or close to it-----------I think.  All this is my > own fault.  In my > interest to acquire and learn about lighting,I went through > and studied the > applied links but being ol'bill, I never bookmarked them.  > Then to further > compound the problem, I deleted the original message that > it came from.  In > hind-sight you could probably chalk this all up to > felonious stupidity on my > part. >   > Bill---where its always a good day if I learn something > new! > > --- On Tue, 11/10/09, Amber Berglund <arberglund@...> > wrote: > > > From: Amber Berglund <arberglund@...> > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: wisteria/lighting previous > question/response > revisited > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Date: Tuesday, November 10, 2009, 9:30 PM > > > I believe it was Steve who posted a link about lumens > months back when (I > think it was maybe Bill asking) about lighting for planted > aquariums. > Plants require 2 different spectrums of light to properly > produce either > leaves or flowers (red is more for flower production and > blue is more for > growth, but for the best growing you want a mixture of BOTH > colors). > So in reality you would want a light that appears more > brown/reddish in > coloring and a blue/white coloring as well, but they now > have bulbs that > have BOTH spectrums built in (I'm sure they don't work as > well as it would > to have 2 different bulbs one mostly red and the other > mostly blue on the > color spectrum). > Let me see if I still have the link bookmarked. > What I was trying to say is that Kelvin does not tell you > what color > spectrum the light REALLY is, it's actually measuring it's > light output > color according to how the human eyes perceive it. So 6500 > kelvin in general > is what most plants will prefer because that is a mixture > of both red and > blue spectrums (In MOST bulbs) unfortunately not all light > bulb manufactures > have to use the exact same chart for their colors, so they > will have > different colors than another bulb that says it's 6500 > Kelvin. what you > really need to read is the color chart on the box, not what > lumens it says > it is. > (still searching for link, LOL). > > This isn't the right link but it discusses the kelvin/lumen > problems a > little bit, still looking for the link that showed the > charts and what to > look for in the color charts. > http://www.americanaquariumproducts.com/Aquarium_Lighting.html > > Will post again when I find the other link with chart > examples. > > Amber > > > Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > > > > I think it would be false advertising or possibly > mis-advertising (if > > they do not know any better) if a company lists their > bulbs as 6500K > > and they aren't. The Kelvin scale, just like Watts and > Lumens, are ALL > > universal and scientifically measurable scales BUT, as > I showed below, > > not all 40 watt bulbs put out the same amount of light > (lumens) or in > > the same color spectrum (Kelvin rating). All 40 watt > bulbs, whether > > incandescent, fluorescent, CFL, LED, Halogen, etc.... > ALL use > > only/around 40 watts of electricity but their light > output can vary > > dramatically. This is why fluorescent bulbs are so > much more efficient > > than incandescent bulbs and CFL's are even more > efficient... as a 40W > > fluorescent bulb puts out a LOT more light (lumens) > than a 40 watt > > incandescent bulb and a 40W CFL puts out more light > (lumens) than a > > 40W fluorescent bulb. This is why the OLD "Watts Per > Gallon" rule > > simply does not work any more. > > > > BUT.. if three different companies are selling > standard T-10 > > fluorescent bulbs with the same exact rating of 40W, > 3550 lumens and > > 6500K rating... all three of those bulbs should be > VERY SIMILAR if not > > identical in the way they appear to our eyes (subject > to our own > > degree of color blindness, of > > course!) > > > > In the past, things like "soft white", "warm white", > "daylight", > > "plant grow", etc., type terms were used and are still > used but those > > are just simple words (not subject to a scientific > scale) to describe > > the Kelvin rating ranges but lumens are just as > important since a bulb > > could have a 6500K rating with only 2200 lumens where > another bulb > > could have a 6500K rating and 3550 or 3700 lumens and > that bulb would > > put out over 50% more light (lumens) in the same color > spectrum > > (Kelvin rating) so it would be a much more cost > effective bulb if it > > cost the same amount or only a little more. > > > > I'm slightly confused about the "red and blue light > for your plants" > > as those two colors are on opposite ends of the Kelvin > Scale with reds > > and ambers in the lower numbers and greens and blues > in the higher > > numbers. I think this is why you would want a > mid-range (5000K to > > 6500K) bulb as those are generally considered "full > spectrum" or > > "daylight" bulbs. Here's a color picture of the Kelvin > Scale, > > http://www.bltdirect.com/images/colour-temperature.jpg > > <http://www.bltdirect.com/images/colour-temperature.jpg> > and you can > > visually see that the 5000K to 6500K range is all > about the same > > "color". I think this is also why Actinic bulbs are > usually higher and > > closer to the 10000K range and up... apparently, the > Kelvin lighting > > scale can go up to 20,000K (according to this article > about Reef Tanks > > http://nh.craigslist.org/for/1423072406.html > > <http://nh.craigslist.org/for/1423072406.html> on, of > all places, > > Craigslist). > > Here is the page that that the above photo link came > from and it has a > > chart that also explains things a little more also and > talks about the > > CRI, yet another lighting term (Color Rendition > Index). > > http://www.bltdirect.com/lampColourTemperatures.php > > <http://www.bltdirect.com/lampColourTemperatures.php> > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> (Links > to any articles referenced in > > above reply are listed on the right side, > alphabetically under Labels > > and also under Archives by Year, Month) > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On > Behalf Of Amber Berglund > > Sent: Tuesday, November 10, 2009 4:22 PM > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: wisteria/lighting > previous > > question/response revisited > > > > Another thing to consider is one light company's 6500 > kelvin rating > > may not be identical to another light bulb from a > different company > > that's rated the same. The important thing to look at > is the color > > chart they show on the boxes, you want more red and > blue light for > > your plants, green is not useful or harmful as the > plants reflect the > > light back (makes them appear more green but does > nothing else for > > them). The kelvin rating is based on our eyes and how > they perceive > > color, so each company doesn't have to be identical, > perhaps some day > > they will have a universal way to measure light > spectrums on bulbs > > that is much less confusing. > > > > Amber > > > > Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > > > > > > OK. So you have a total of 80 watts right now, > which is just over 1 > > > WPG, which means you only have enough lighting > for low-light, easy > > > to grow plants. See my blog article "Planted > Tank: So You Want A > > > Planted Tank" for links to lists of low-light, > easy to grow plants > > > that will do OK in your tank. You should replace > those tubes at least > yearly... > > > although some say every six months. As far as I > know, a 40W bulb is > > > the highest wattage made for this type of > bulb/fixture right now but > > > you can increase your lighting > > > (lumens) and K (Kelvin) rating. See below. > > > > > > NOTE - below links are for example/informational > purposes only, as I > > > know nothing about the sites. God... did I just > say that? Do I > > > really have to add disclaimers to my posts now? > LOL Just laughing at > myself. > > > LOL > > > > > > This may be your Sylvania bulb... > > > http://www.lightbulbemporium.com/proddetail.asp?prod=F40/EX50 > > <http://www.lightbulbemporium.com/proddetail.asp?prod=F40/EX50> > > > <http://www.lightbulbemporium.com/proddetail.asp?prod=F40/EX50 > > <http://www.lightbulbemporium.com/proddetail.asp?prod=F40/EX50>> > and > > if > > > it is, then it's the same ratings as the specs in > the T-10 bulb that > > > I copy/pasted below, which is a pretty good bulb > with higher lumens > > > and the higher K rating, although not a 6500K > rated bulb. At the > > > bottom of this page, there was a link to this > bulb... > > > > > http://www.lightbulbemporium.com/maxlite_51204_ml_f40t10_850_rscg.asp > > <http://www.lightbulbemporium.com/maxlite_51204_ml_f40t10_850_rscg.asp > > > > > > > > <http://www.lightbulbemporium.com/maxlite_51204_ml_f40t10_850_rscg.asp > > <http://www.lightbulbemporium.com/maxlite_51204_ml_f40t10_850_rscg.asp > > > > > > > > > > which > > > has an even higher lumen rating of 3700, although > not much higher > > > than the 3550 rating but every little bit helps > especially since the > > > MaxLite bulb was a lower price than the Sylvania > bulb. > > > > > > As you will see on this page > > > > > http://www.lightbulbsdirect.com/Merchant2/merchant.mvc?page=001/CTGY/F > > <http://www.lightbulbsdirect.com/Merchant2/merchant.mvc?page=001/CTGY/ > > F> > > > S+Fluo > > > > > <http://www.lightbulbsdirect.com/Merchant2/merchant.mvc?page=001/CTGY/ > > <http://www.lightbulbsdirect.com/Merchant2/merchant.mvc?page=001/CTGY/ > > > > > > FS+Fluo> > > > rescent > > > > > > The second bulb down would be similar to yours, > except we do not > > > know the lumen or color spectrum rating on your > bulb, unless that > > > link I gave above is actually your bulb and then > it would be the > > > same as this one. The specs on it are: > > > > > > T-10 Fluorescent > > > 40 Watts > > > Length: 48" > > > Medium Bi-Pin Base > > > Color: 5000K Temperature > > > Initial Lumens: 3550 > > > CRI: 84 > > > Average Life: 20,000 Hours > > > > > > The Color spectrum of 5000K (Kelvin) is OK but > 6500K would be much > > better. > > > The Lumens of 3550 is the actual amount of > *light* > > > > > > The next bulb down from that one is a T-12, which > will also fit in > > > your fixture but they are bigger diameter bulbs > and this one > > > actually puts out less light (lumens). Here are > the specs: > > > > > > T-12 Fluorescent > > > 40 Watts > > > Length: 48" > > > Base: Medium Bi-Pin Base > > > Initial Lumens: 2200 > > > Average Life: 20,000 Hours > > > Color Temperature: 5000K > > > CRI: 92 > > > > > > It has the same Color spectrum but only 2200 > lumens so the above > > > T-10 bulb has around 50% more lumens (light) > coming out of it. > > > > > > Now, if you scroll down to the second from the > bottom on the page, > > > you'll see the Verilux Instant-Sun T-12 bulb > which has a higher > > > Kelvin rating but it doesn't list the lumens so > this needs to be > > > checked out further. While the higher K rating is > good, if it goes > > > back down to only 2200 lumens, instead of the > 3550 lumens of the > > > first referenced bulb above, then I would > probably go with the 3550 > > > lumens, 5000K bulb over the 6280K bulb if the > lumens were a LOT less. > > > > > > (START SNIP) > > > Engineered to reproduce all the colors and > balance of natural light, > > > VeriluxR full spectrum fluorescent tubes feature > Trucolite Phosphor > > > TechnologyT which includes the use of a stable, > custom blend of > > > earth phosphors that create bright, balanced full > spectrum light. > > > T-12 Fluorescent > > > 40 Watts > > > Length: 48" > > > Color Temperature: 6280K > > > CRI: 94 > > > Medium Bi-Pin Base > > > (END SNIP) > > > > > > So, as you can see, there's a few things to look > for when shopping > > > for new replacement bulbs. Look for the 5000K to > 6500K bulbs with > > > the higher lumen rating for the dollar and you > should be good. Note > > > that a 3550 or 3700 lumen bulb will put out > nearly twice as much > > > light as a 2000 lumen bulb so it can be easy to > increase your > > > lighting without increasing the wattage. DO NOT > try to use HO or VHO > > > bulbs... which look similar but have much higher > wattage, well over > > > the 40W bulbs you now have. These other HO and > VHO bulbs have > > > different pin arrangements so they will not fit > in your fixture > > > anyhow but I just wanted to save you a trip. > > > > > > Last but not least, if you're handy, you could > even take the bulbs > > > out of your fixtures and line the insides of your > fixtures with nice > > > and crisp and flat aluminum foil (shiny side > exposed) which will > > > also help. Using double stick tape and then > carefully applying the > > > foil so it does not wrinkle too much will work > well... especially if > > > the inside of your fixture is black. A white > reflector is good but a > > > mirrored reflector, like that created by the > shiny side of foil, is > > > MUCH better than a black reflector. Most black > fixtures do at least > > > have white reflector areas. > > > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>> > > (Links to any articles referenced in > > > above reply are listed on the right side, > alphabetically under > > > Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On > Behalf Of erikaandnewton > > > Sent: Tuesday, November 10, 2009 10:17 AM > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: wisteria/lighting > previous > > > question/response revisited > > > > > > << When you say "two strips" do you have > two 4' long two-bulb > > > fixtures already or something else?>> > > > > > > i have two 4' single bulb strip lights. > > > > > > >> What kind of lighting do you currently > have? Look at the bulbs > > > >> and there should be some kind of writing > on one of the ends. Give > > > >> us that info if you cannot decipher it > yourself.<< > > > > > > one bulb is a f40 t10 > > > the other one is a sylvania daylight bulb also > f40 > > > > > > >> It's probably 21" tall, since a common > measurement for a 75G is > > > >> 48"x18"x21" Tall.>> > > > > > > it is 21 inches tall > > > > > > erika wilmington de usa > > > > > > > ------------------------------------ > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when > replying, Thank You. > ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> > ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> > PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is > NOT important to > the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original > message MODIFY the SUBJECT > LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- > <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. > , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. > > If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of > unsubscribing, you > can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My > Membership" on the > home page.  > > Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com > to receive the digest, which > includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email > > Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com > for the No E-Mail option where > you will still be able to read messages on the group and > post replies. > > Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com > to receive individual > e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > >       > > > ------------------------------------ > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when > replying, Thank You. > ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> > ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> > PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is > NOT important to > the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original > message MODIFY the SUBJECT > LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- > <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. > , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. > > If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of > unsubscribing, you > can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My > Membership" on the > home page.  > > Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com > to receive the digest, which > includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email > > Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com > for the No E-Mail option where > you will still be able to read messages on the group and > post replies. > > Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com > to receive individual > e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > ------------------------------------ > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when > replying, Thank You. > ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> > ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> > PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is > NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of > the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new > subject (was re: old subject)" <- > <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. > , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. > > If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of > unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by > clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the home page.  > > Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com > to receive the digest, which includes up to 25 posts at a > time in a single email > > Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com > for the No E-Mail option where you will still be able to > read messages on the group and post replies. > > Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com > to receive individual e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links > > >     AquaticLife-fullfeatured@yahoogroups.com > > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 44406	From: bill 1433	Date: 11/11/2009
Subject: Re: wisteria/lighting previous question/response revisited

Hi Amber, If Len were to send us ALL his bookmarks, we would have to start another group! Bill --- On Tue, 11/10/09, Amber Berglund <arberglund@...> wrote: > From: Amber Berglund <arberglund@...> > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: wisteria/lighting previous question/response revisited > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Date: Tuesday, November 10, 2009, 11:24 PM > No worries Bill, I do the same thing, > maybe Lenny will be so kind as to > send us all his bookmarks? LOL > > Amber > > bill 1433 wrote: > > > > Yes, Amber > > > > It was I, looking for the original information and > also looked back on > > \\Steve//'s post at group to try and find. Ray had > mentioned all this > > the other day saying that he thought the posting came > from \\Steve//. > > > > I was not successful in my search. Also, for me the > most important > > part was a link to a chart which showed you exactly, > or explained > > exactly the "T" factor stands for. For instance, T-4 > would be a tube > > that is a half inch wide, or close to it-----------I > think. All this > > is my own fault. In my interest to acquire and learn > about lighting,I > > went through and studied the applied links but being > ol'bill, I never > > bookmarked them. Then to further compound the problem, > I deleted the > > original message that it came from. In hind-sight you > could probably > > chalk this all up to felonious stupidity on my part. > > > > Bill---where its always a good day if I learn > something new! > > > > --- On Tue, 11/10/09, Amber Berglund <arberglund@... > > > <mailto:arberglund%40gmail.com>> wrote: > > > > From: Amber Berglund <arberglund@... > > > <mailto:arberglund%40gmail.com>> > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: wisteria/lighting > previous > > question/response revisited > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > Date: Tuesday, November 10, 2009, 9:30 PM > > > > I believe it was Steve who posted a link about lumens > months back when > > (I think it was maybe Bill asking) about lighting for > planted aquariums. > > Plants require 2 different spectrums of light to > properly produce either > > leaves or flowers (red is more for flower production > and blue is more > > for growth, but for the best growing you want a > mixture of BOTH colors). > > So in reality you would want a light that appears more > brown/reddish in > > coloring and a blue/white coloring as well, but they > now have bulbs that > > have BOTH spectrums built in (I'm sure they don't work > as well as it > > would to have 2 different bulbs one mostly red and the > other mostly blue > > on the color spectrum). > > Let me see if I still have the link bookmarked. > > What I was trying to say is that Kelvin does not tell > you what color > > spectrum the light REALLY is, it's actually measuring > it's light output > > color according to how the human eyes perceive it. So > 6500 kelvin in > > general is what most plants will prefer because that > is a mixture of > > both red and blue spectrums (In MOST bulbs) > unfortunately not all light > > bulb manufactures have to use the exact same chart for > their colors, so > > they will have different colors than another bulb that > says it's 6500 > > Kelvin. what you really need to read is the color > chart on the box, not > > what lumens it says it is. > > (still searching for link, LOL). > > > > This isn't the right link but it discusses the > kelvin/lumen problems a > > little bit, still looking for the link that showed the > charts and what > > to look for in the color charts. > > http://www.americanaquariumproducts.com/Aquarium_Lighting.html > > > <http://www.americanaquariumproducts.com/Aquarium_Lighting.html> > > > > Will post again when I find the other link with chart > examples. > > > > Amber > > > > Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > > > > > > I think it would be false advertising or possibly > mis-advertising > > (if they > > > do not know any better) if a company lists their > bulbs as 6500K and they > > > aren't. The Kelvin scale, just like Watts and > Lumens, are ALL > > > universal and > > > scientifically measurable scales BUT, as I showed > below, not all 40 watt > > > bulbs put out the same amount of light (lumens) > or in the same color > > > spectrum (Kelvin rating). All 40 watt bulbs, > whether incandescent, > > > fluorescent, CFL, LED, Halogen, etc.... ALL use > only/around 40 watts of > > > electricity but their light output can vary > dramatically. This is why > > > fluorescent bulbs are so much more efficient than > incandescent bulbs and > > > CFL's are even more efficient... as a 40W > fluorescent bulb puts out > > a LOT > > > more light (lumens) than a 40 watt incandescent > bulb and a 40W CFL > > > puts out > > > more light (lumens) than a 40W fluorescent bulb. > This is why the OLD > > > "Watts > > > Per Gallon" rule simply does not work any more. > > > > > > BUT.. if three different companies are selling > standard T-10 fluorescent > > > bulbs with the same exact rating of 40W, 3550 > lumens and 6500K > > > rating... all > > > three of those bulbs should be VERY SIMILAR if > not identical in the > > > way they > > > appear to our eyes (subject to our own degree of > color blindness, of > > > course!) > > > > > > In the past, things like "soft white", "warm > white", "daylight", "plant > > > grow", etc., type terms were used and are still > used but those are just > > > simple words (not subject to a scientific scale) > to describe the Kelvin > > > rating ranges but lumens are just as important > since a bulb could have a > > > 6500K rating with only 2200 lumens where another > bulb could have a 6500K > > > rating and 3550 or 3700 lumens and that bulb > would put out over 50% more > > > light (lumens) in the same color spectrum (Kelvin > rating) so it > > would be a > > > much more cost effective bulb if it cost the same > amount or only a > > little > > > more. > > > > > > I'm slightly confused about the "red and blue > light for your plants" as > > > those two colors are on opposite ends of the > Kelvin Scale with reds and > > > ambers in the lower numbers and greens and blues > in the higher > > numbers. I > > > think this is why you would want a mid-range > (5000K to 6500K) bulb as > > > those > > > are generally considered "full spectrum" or > "daylight" bulbs. Here's a > > > color picture of the Kelvin Scale, > > > http://www.bltdirect.com/images/colour-temperature.jpg > > > <http://www.bltdirect.com/images/colour-temperature.jpg> > > > <http://www.bltdirect.com/images/colour-temperature.jpg > > > <http://www.bltdirect.com/images/colour-temperature.jpg>> > and you can > > > visually > > > see that the 5000K to 6500K range is all about > the same "color". I think > > > this is also why Actinic bulbs are usually higher > and closer to the > > 10000K > > > range and up... apparently, the Kelvin lighting > scale can go up to > > 20,000K > > > (according to this article about Reef Tanks > > > http://nh.craigslist.org/for/1423072406.html > > <http://nh.craigslist.org/for/1423072406.html> > > > <http://nh.craigslist.org/for/1423072406.html > > <http://nh.craigslist.org/for/1423072406.html>> > on, of all places, > > > Craigslist). > > > Here is the page that that the above photo link > came from and it has a > > > chart > > > that also explains things a little more also and > talks about the > > CRI, yet > > > another lighting term (Color Rendition Index). > > > http://www.bltdirect.com/lampColourTemperatures.php > > <http://www.bltdirect.com/lampColourTemperatures.php> > > > <http://www.bltdirect.com/lampColourTemperatures.php > > <http://www.bltdirect.com/lampColourTemperatures.php>> > > > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>> > > > (Links to any articles referenced in above reply > are listed on the right > > > side, alphabetically under Labels and also under > Archives by Year, > > Month) > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On > > > Behalf Of Amber Berglund > > > Sent: Tuesday, November 10, 2009 4:22 PM > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: wisteria/lighting > previous > > > question/response > > > revisited > > > > > > Another thing to consider is one light company's > 6500 kelvin rating > > > may not > > > be identical to another light bulb from a > different company that's > > > rated the > > > same. The important thing to look at is the color > chart they show on the > > > boxes, you want more red and blue light for your > plants, green is not > > > useful > > > or harmful as the plants reflect the light back > (makes them appear more > > > green but does nothing else for them). The kelvin > rating is based on our > > > eyes and how they perceive color, so each company > doesn't have to be > > > identical, perhaps some day they will have a > universal way to measure > > > light > > > spectrums on bulbs that is much less confusing. > > > > > > Amber > > > > > > Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > > > > > > > > OK. So you have a total of 80 watts right > now, which is just over 1 > > > > WPG, which means you only have enough > lighting for low-light, easy to > > > > grow plants. See my blog article "Planted > Tank: So You Want A Planted > > > > Tank" for links to lists of low-light, easy > to grow plants that will > > > > do OK in your tank. You should replace those > tubes at least yearly... > > > > although some say every six months. As far > as I know, a 40W bulb is > > > > the highest wattage made for this type of > bulb/fixture right now but > > > > you can increase your lighting > > > > (lumens) and K (Kelvin) rating. See below. > > > > > > > > NOTE - below links are for > example/informational purposes only, as I > > > > know nothing about the sites. God... did I > just say that? Do I really > > > > have to add disclaimers to my posts now? LOL > Just laughing at myself. > > > > LOL > > > > > > > > This may be your Sylvania bulb... > > > > http://www.lightbulbemporium.com/proddetail.asp?prod=F40/EX50 > > > <http://www.lightbulbemporium.com/proddetail.asp?prod=F40/EX50> > > > <http://www.lightbulbemporium.com/proddetail.asp?prod=F40/EX50 > > > <http://www.lightbulbemporium.com/proddetail.asp?prod=F40/EX50>> > > > > <http://www.lightbulbemporium.com/proddetail.asp?prod=F40/EX50 > > > <http://www.lightbulbemporium.com/proddetail.asp?prod=F40/EX50> > > > <http://www.lightbulbemporium.com/proddetail.asp?prod=F40/EX50 > > > <http://www.lightbulbemporium.com/proddetail.asp?prod=F40/EX50>>> > and if > > > > it is, then it's the same ratings as the > specs in the T-10 bulb that I > > > > copy/pasted below, which is a pretty good > bulb with higher lumens and > > > > the higher K rating, although not a 6500K > rated bulb. At the bottom of > > > > this page, there was a link to this bulb... > > > > > > > > > http://www.lightbulbemporium.com/maxlite_51204_ml_f40t10_850_rscg.asp > > > <http://www.lightbulbemporium.com/maxlite_51204_ml_f40t10_850_rscg.asp> > > > > > <http://www.lightbulbemporium.com/maxlite_51204_ml_f40t10_850_rscg.asp > > > <http://www.lightbulbemporium.com/maxlite_51204_ml_f40t10_850_rscg.asp>> > > > > > > > > > <http://www.lightbulbemporium.com/maxlite_51204_ml_f40t10_850_rscg.asp > > > <http://www.lightbulbemporium.com/maxlite_51204_ml_f40t10_850_rscg.asp> > > > > > <http://www.lightbulbemporium.com/maxlite_51204_ml_f40t10_850_rscg.asp > > > <http://www.lightbulbemporium.com/maxlite_51204_ml_f40t10_850_rscg.asp>> > > > > > > > > > which > > > > has an even higher lumen rating of 3700, > although not much higher than > > > > the 3550 rating but every little bit helps > especially since the > > > > MaxLite bulb was a lower price than the > Sylvania bulb. > > > > > > > > As you will see on this page > > > > > > > > > http://www.lightbulbsdirect.com/Merchant2/merchant.mvc?page=001/CTGY/F > > > <http://www.lightbulbsdirect.com/Merchant2/merchant.mvc?page=001/CTGY/F> > > > > > <http://www.lightbulbsdirect.com/Merchant2/merchant.mvc?page=001/CTGY/F > > > <http://www.lightbulbsdirect.com/Merchant2/merchant.mvc?page=001/CTGY/F>> > > > > S+Fluo > > > > > > > > > <http://www.lightbulbsdirect.com/Merchant2/merchant.mvc?page=001/CTGY/ > > > <http://www.lightbulbsdirect.com/Merchant2/merchant.mvc?page=001/CTGY/> > > > > > <http://www.lightbulbsdirect.com/Merchant2/merchant.mvc?page=001/CTGY/ > > > <http://www.lightbulbsdirect.com/Merchant2/merchant.mvc?page=001/CTGY/>> > > > > FS+Fluo> > > > > rescent > > > > > > > > The second bulb down would be similar to > yours, except we do not know > > > > the lumen or color spectrum rating on your > bulb, unless that link I > > > > gave above is actually your bulb and then it > would be the same as this > > > > one. The specs on it are: > > > > > > > > T-10 Fluorescent > > > > 40 Watts > > > > Length: 48" > > > > Medium Bi-Pin Base > > > > Color: 5000K Temperature > > > > Initial Lumens: 3550 > > > > CRI: 84 > > > > Average Life: 20,000 Hours > > > > > > > > The Color spectrum of 5000K (Kelvin) is OK > but 6500K would be much > > > better. > > > > The Lumens of 3550 is the actual amount of > *light* > > > > > > > > The next bulb down from that one is a T-12, > which will also fit in > > > > your fixture but they are bigger diameter > bulbs and this one actually > > > > puts out less light (lumens). Here are the > specs: > > > > > > > > T-12 Fluorescent > > > > 40 Watts > > > > Length: 48" > > > > Base: Medium Bi-Pin Base > > > > Initial Lumens: 2200 > > > > Average Life: 20,000 Hours > > > > Color Temperature: 5000K > > > > CRI: 92 > > > > > > > > It has the same Color spectrum but only 2200 > lumens so the above T-10 > > > > bulb has around 50% more lumens (light) > coming out of it. > > > > > > > > Now, if you scroll down to the second from > the bottom on the page, > > > > you'll see the Verilux Instant-Sun T-12 bulb > which has a higher Kelvin > > > > rating but it doesn't list the lumens so > this needs to be checked out > > > > further. While the higher K rating is good, > if it goes back down to > > > > only 2200 lumens, instead of the 3550 lumens > of the first referenced > > > > bulb above, then I would probably go with > the 3550 lumens, 5000K bulb > > > > over the 6280K bulb if the lumens were a LOT > less. > > > > > > > > (START SNIP) > > > > Engineered to reproduce all the colors and > balance of natural light, > > > > VeriluxR full spectrum fluorescent tubes > feature Trucolite Phosphor > > > > TechnologyT which includes the use of a > stable, custom blend of earth > > > > phosphors that create bright, balanced full > spectrum light. > > > > T-12 Fluorescent > > > > 40 Watts > > > > Length: 48" > > > > Color Temperature: 6280K > > > > CRI: 94 > > > > Medium Bi-Pin Base > > > > (END SNIP) > > > > > > > > So, as you can see, there's a few things to > look for when shopping for > > > > new replacement bulbs. Look for the 5000K to > 6500K bulbs with the > > > > higher lumen rating for the dollar and you > should be good. Note that a > > > > 3550 or 3700 lumen bulb will put out nearly > twice as much light as a > > > > 2000 lumen bulb so it can be easy to > increase your lighting without > > > > increasing the wattage. DO NOT try to use HO > or VHO bulbs... which > > > > look similar but have much higher wattage, > well over the 40W bulbs you > > > > now have. These other HO and VHO bulbs have > different pin arrangements > > > > so they will not fit in your fixture anyhow > but I just wanted to save > > > > you a trip. > > > > > > > > Last but not least, if you're handy, you > could even take the bulbs out > > > > of your fixtures and line the insides of > your fixtures with nice and > > > > crisp and flat aluminum foil (shiny side > exposed) which will also > > > > help. Using double stick tape and then > carefully applying the foil so > > > > it does not wrinkle too much will work > well... especially if the > > > > inside of your fixture is black. A white > reflector is good but a > > > > mirrored reflector, like that created by the > shiny side of foil, is > > > > MUCH better than a black reflector. Most > black fixtures do at least > > > > have white reflector areas. > > > > > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>> > > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>>> > > > (Links to any articles referenced in > > > > above reply are listed on the right side, > alphabetically under Labels > > > > and also under Archives by Year, Month) > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On Behalf Of > erikaandnewton > > > > Sent: Tuesday, November 10, 2009 10:17 AM > > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: wisteria/lighting > previous > > > > question/response revisited > > > > > > > > << When you say "two strips" do you > have two 4' long two-bulb fixtures > > > > already or something else?>> > > > > > > > > i have two 4' single bulb strip lights. > > > > > > > > >> What kind of lighting do you > currently have? Look at the bulbs and > > > > >> there should be some kind of > writing on one of the ends. Give us > > > > >> that info if you cannot decipher it > yourself.<< > > > > > > > > one bulb is a f40 t10 > > > > the other one is a sylvania daylight bulb > also f40 > > > > > > > > >> It's probably 21" tall, since a > common measurement for a 75G is > > > > >> 48"x18"x21" Tall.>> > > > > > > > > it is 21 inches tall > > > > > > > > erika wilmington de usa > > > > > > > > > > ------------------------------------ > > > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when > replying, Thank You. > > > ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> > ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> > > PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that > is NOT > > important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of > the original message > > MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was > re: old subject)" <- > > > <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. > , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. > > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. > > > > If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead > of unsubscribing, > > you can change your delivery option by clicking on > "Edit My > > Membership" on the home page. > > > > Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com > > > <mailto:aquaticlife-digest%40yahoogroups.com> to > receive the digest, > > which includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single > email > > > > Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com > > > <mailto:aquaticlife-nomail%40yahoogroups.com> > for the No E-Mail option > > where you will still be able to read messages on the > group and post > > replies. > > > > Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com > > > <mailto:aquaticlife-normal%40yahoogroups.com> to > receive individual > > e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > > ------------------------------------ > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when > replying, Thank You. > ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> > ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> > PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is > NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of > the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new > subject (was re: old subject)" <- > <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. > , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. > > If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of > unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by > clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the home page.  > > Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com > to receive the digest, which includes up to 25 posts at a > time in a single email > > Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com > for the No E-Mail option where you will still be able to > read messages on the group and post replies. > > Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com > to receive individual e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links > > >     AquaticLife-fullfeatured@yahoogroups.com > > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 44407	From: bill 1433	Date: 11/11/2009
Subject: Re: wisteria/lighting previous question/response revisited

Hi \\Steve// At this point, and also to refresh your mind, and anyone else on the group that may have interest. This all got started with my search for a tube that would allow me more light output from an All Glass Plastic hood and light. This unit comes with a "color type tube at 17 watts that is only 24 inches long. This is for a 20/29-gallon tank. I was stupid enough to buy two of them, one for each tank. For further inspection here is the light: http://www.drsfostersmith.com/product/prod_display.cfm?pcatid=13447 For those that would like to aggravate themselves further, I can also state that these hoods are very conducive to growing Black Algae! Summoning up, I should have only purchased an All-Glass cover and then probably a double tube light of sufficient wattage to bring me up to the recommended 2 or 3 watts per gallon. Ya live and learn, Bill --- On Tue, 11/10/09, Steve Szabo <steve@...> wrote: > From: Steve Szabo <steve@...> > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: wisteria/lighting previous question/response revisited > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Date: Tuesday, November 10, 2009, 11:50 PM > Bill, you got it right! The T numbers > represent the diameter of the bulb in > 1/8" increments. A T4 is a bulb 1/2" in diameter,  T5 > is 5/8", t8 is 1" and > a t12 is 1 1/2". As I recall, the F is the wattage of the > bulb. > > Lumens, not usually stated on the bulb is the actual amount > of light coming > from the bulb. It really does not have anything to do with > watts, though > more watts will give you more lumens, but, also the > phosphors used in the > bulb affect the amount of lumen output. Lumens and lux are > often used > interchangeably, but they are really different > measurements. Lux is the > measure of illumination over a given area. It may actually > be more important > to aquarists raising plants than the lumen output. Lux is > what is measured > by a light meter, for anyone who happens to know what they > are--not often > seen with today's cameras and photographers. > > Color temperature is important. Average daylight (except > may in Amber's area > where they have 6 months of darkness) has a color > temperature of 5500-6000. > An overcast day can have a color temperature of 6500. As > mentioned earlier, > plants need light in two color spectrums, and, actually > they are rather > narrow spans of wavelengths they benefit from. > > I thought I had a bookmark explaining this, but I can't > find it quickly > (over 400K of bookmarks, and things have a tendency to get > lost), however, > some judicial Googling will gain you the information. > > \\Steve// > > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] > On > Behalf Of bill 1433 > Sent: Tuesday, November 10, 2009 10:20 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: wisteria/lighting previous > question/response > revisited > > Yes, Amber >   > It was I, looking for the original information and also > looked back on > \\Steve//'s post at group to try and find. Ray had > mentioned all this the > other day saying that he thought the posting came from > \\Steve//. >   > I was not successful in my search.  Also, for me the most > important part was > a link to a chart which showed you exactly, or explained > exactly the "T" > factor stands for.  For instance, T-4 would be a tube that > is a half inch > wide, or close to it-----------I think.  All this is my > own fault.  In my > interest to acquire and learn about lighting,I went through > and studied the > applied links but being ol'bill, I never bookmarked them.  > Then to further > compound the problem, I deleted the original message that > it came from.  In > hind-sight you could probably chalk this all up to > felonious stupidity on my > part. >   > Bill---where its always a good day if I learn something > new! > > --- On Tue, 11/10/09, Amber Berglund <arberglund@...> > wrote: > > > From: Amber Berglund <arberglund@...> > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: wisteria/lighting previous > question/response > revisited > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Date: Tuesday, November 10, 2009, 9:30 PM > > > I believe it was Steve who posted a link about lumens > months back when > (I think it was maybe Bill asking) about lighting for > planted aquariums. > Plants require 2 different spectrums of light to properly > produce either > leaves or flowers (red is more for flower production and > blue is more > for growth, but for the best growing you want a mixture of > BOTH colors). > So in reality you would want a light that appears more > brown/reddish in > coloring and a blue/white coloring as well, but they now > have bulbs that > have BOTH spectrums built in (I'm sure they don't work as > well as it > would to have 2 different bulbs one mostly red and the > other mostly blue > on the color spectrum). > Let me see if I still have the link bookmarked. > What I was trying to say is that Kelvin does not tell you > what color > spectrum the light REALLY is, it's actually measuring it's > light output > color according to how the human eyes perceive it. So 6500 > kelvin in > general is what most plants will prefer because that is a > mixture of > both red and blue spectrums (In MOST bulbs) unfortunately > not all light > bulb manufactures have to use the exact same chart for > their colors, so > they will have different colors than another bulb that says > it's 6500 > Kelvin. what you really need to read is the color chart on > the box, not > what lumens it says it is. > (still searching for link, LOL). > > This isn't the right link but it discusses the kelvin/lumen > problems a > little bit, still looking for the link that showed the > charts and what > to look for in the color charts. > http://www.americanaquariumproducts.com/Aquarium_Lighting.html > > Will post again when I find the other link with chart > examples. > > Amber > > > Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > > > > I think it would be false advertising or possibly > mis-advertising (if they > > do not know any better) if a company lists their bulbs > as 6500K and they > > aren't. The Kelvin scale, just like Watts and Lumens, > are ALL > > universal and > > scientifically measurable scales BUT, as I showed > below, not all 40 watt > > bulbs put out the same amount of light (lumens) or in > the same color > > spectrum (Kelvin rating). All 40 watt bulbs, whether > incandescent, > > fluorescent, CFL, LED, Halogen, etc.... ALL use > only/around 40 watts of > > electricity but their light output can vary > dramatically. This is why > > fluorescent bulbs are so much more efficient than > incandescent bulbs and > > CFL's are even more efficient... as a 40W fluorescent > bulb puts out a LOT > > more light (lumens) than a 40 watt incandescent bulb > and a 40W CFL > > puts out > > more light (lumens) than a 40W fluorescent bulb. This > is why the OLD > > "Watts > > Per Gallon" rule simply does not work any more. > > > > BUT.. if three different companies are selling > standard T-10 fluorescent > > bulbs with the same exact rating of 40W, 3550 lumens > and 6500K > > rating... all > > three of those bulbs should be VERY SIMILAR if not > identical in the > > way they > > appear to our eyes (subject to our own degree of color > blindness, of > > course!) > > > > In the past, things like "soft white", "warm white", > "daylight", "plant > > grow", etc., type terms were used and are still used > but those are just > > simple words (not subject to a scientific scale) to > describe the Kelvin > > rating ranges but lumens are just as important since a > bulb could have a > > 6500K rating with only 2200 lumens where another bulb > could have a 6500K > > rating and 3550 or 3700 lumens and that bulb would put > out over 50% more > > light (lumens) in the same color spectrum (Kelvin > rating) so it would be a > > much more cost effective bulb if it cost the same > amount or only a little > > more. > > > > I'm slightly confused about the "red and blue light > for your plants" as > > those two colors are on opposite ends of the Kelvin > Scale with reds and > > ambers in the lower numbers and greens and blues in > the higher numbers. I > > think this is why you would want a mid-range (5000K to > 6500K) bulb as > > those > > are generally considered "full spectrum" or "daylight" > bulbs. Here's a > > color picture of the Kelvin Scale, > > http://www.bltdirect.com/images/colour-temperature.jpg > > > <http://www.bltdirect.com/images/colour-temperature.jpg> > and you can > > visually > > see that the 5000K to 6500K range is all about the > same "color". I think > > this is also why Actinic bulbs are usually higher and > closer to the 10000K > > range and up... apparently, the Kelvin lighting scale > can go up to 20,000K > > (according to this article about Reef Tanks > > http://nh.craigslist.org/for/1423072406.html > > <http://nh.craigslist.org/for/1423072406.html> on, of > all places, > > Craigslist). > > Here is the page that that the above photo link came > from and it has a > > chart > > that also explains things a little more also and talks > about the CRI, yet > > another lighting term (Color Rendition Index). > > http://www.bltdirect.com/lampColourTemperatures.php > > <http://www.bltdirect.com/lampColourTemperatures.php> > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are > listed on the right > > side, alphabetically under Labels and also under > Archives by Year, Month) > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On > > Behalf Of Amber Berglund > > Sent: Tuesday, November 10, 2009 4:22 PM > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: wisteria/lighting > previous > > question/response > > revisited > > > > Another thing to consider is one light company's 6500 > kelvin rating > > may not > > be identical to another light bulb from a different > company that's > > rated the > > same. The important thing to look at is the color > chart they show on the > > boxes, you want more red and blue light for your > plants, green is not > > useful > > or harmful as the plants reflect the light back (makes > them appear more > > green but does nothing else for them). The kelvin > rating is based on our > > eyes and how they perceive color, so each company > doesn't have to be > > identical, perhaps some day they will have a universal > way to measure > > light > > spectrums on bulbs that is much less confusing. > > > > Amber > > > > Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > > > > > > OK. So you have a total of 80 watts right now, > which is just over 1 > > > WPG, which means you only have enough lighting > for low-light, easy to > > > grow plants. See my blog article "Planted Tank: > So You Want A Planted > > > Tank" for links to lists of low-light, easy to > grow plants that will > > > do OK in your tank. You should replace those > tubes at least yearly... > > > although some say every six months. As far as I > know, a 40W bulb is > > > the highest wattage made for this type of > bulb/fixture right now but > > > you can increase your lighting > > > (lumens) and K (Kelvin) rating. See below. > > > > > > NOTE - below links are for example/informational > purposes only, as I > > > know nothing about the sites. God... did I just > say that? Do I really > > > have to add disclaimers to my posts now? LOL Just > laughing at myself. > > > LOL > > > > > > This may be your Sylvania bulb... > > > http://www.lightbulbemporium.com/proddetail.asp?prod=F40/EX50 > > > <http://www.lightbulbemporium.com/proddetail.asp?prod=F40/EX50> > > > <http://www.lightbulbemporium.com/proddetail.asp?prod=F40/EX50 > > > <http://www.lightbulbemporium.com/proddetail.asp?prod=F40/EX50>> > and if > > > it is, then it's the same ratings as the specs in > the T-10 bulb that I > > > copy/pasted below, which is a pretty good bulb > with higher lumens and > > > the higher K rating, although not a 6500K rated > bulb. At the bottom of > > > this page, there was a link to this bulb... > > > > > http://www.lightbulbemporium.com/maxlite_51204_ml_f40t10_850_rscg.asp > > > <http://www.lightbulbemporium.com/maxlite_51204_ml_f40t10_850_rscg.asp> > > > > > <http://www.lightbulbemporium.com/maxlite_51204_ml_f40t10_850_rscg.asp > > > <http://www.lightbulbemporium.com/maxlite_51204_ml_f40t10_850_rscg.asp> > > > > > > > which > > > has an even higher lumen rating of 3700, although > not much higher than > > > the 3550 rating but every little bit helps > especially since the > > > MaxLite bulb was a lower price than the Sylvania > bulb. > > > > > > As you will see on this page > > > > > http://www.lightbulbsdirect.com/Merchant2/merchant.mvc?page=001/CTGY/F > > > <http://www.lightbulbsdirect.com/Merchant2/merchant.mvc?page=001/CTGY/F> > > > S+Fluo > > > > > <http://www.lightbulbsdirect.com/Merchant2/merchant.mvc?page=001/CTGY/ > > > <http://www.lightbulbsdirect.com/Merchant2/merchant.mvc?page=001/CTGY/> > > > FS+Fluo> > > > rescent > > > > > > The second bulb down would be similar to yours, > except we do not know > > > the lumen or color spectrum rating on your bulb, > unless that link I > > > gave above is actually your bulb and then it > would be the same as this > > > one. The specs on it are: > > > > > > T-10 Fluorescent > > > 40 Watts > > > Length: 48" > > > Medium Bi-Pin Base > > > Color: 5000K Temperature > > > Initial Lumens: 3550 > > > CRI: 84 > > > Average Life: 20,000 Hours > > > > > > The Color spectrum of 5000K (Kelvin) is OK but > 6500K would be much > > better. > > > The Lumens of 3550 is the actual amount of > *light* > > > > > > The next bulb down from that one is a T-12, which > will also fit in > > > your fixture but they are bigger diameter bulbs > and this one actually > > > puts out less light (lumens). Here are the > specs: > > > > > > T-12 Fluorescent > > > 40 Watts > > > Length: 48" > > > Base: Medium Bi-Pin Base > > > Initial Lumens: 2200 > > > Average Life: 20,000 Hours > > > Color Temperature: 5000K > > > CRI: 92 > > > > > > It has the same Color spectrum but only 2200 > lumens so the above T-10 > > > bulb has around 50% more lumens (light) coming > out of it. > > > > > > Now, if you scroll down to the second from the > bottom on the page, > > > you'll see the Verilux Instant-Sun T-12 bulb > which has a higher Kelvin > > > rating but it doesn't list the lumens so this > needs to be checked out > > > further. While the higher K rating is good, if it > goes back down to > > > only 2200 lumens, instead of the 3550 lumens of > the first referenced > > > bulb above, then I would probably go with the > 3550 lumens, 5000K bulb > > > over the 6280K bulb if the lumens were a LOT > less. > > > > > > (START SNIP) > > > Engineered to reproduce all the colors and > balance of natural light, > > > VeriluxR full spectrum fluorescent tubes feature > Trucolite Phosphor > > > TechnologyT which includes the use of a stable, > custom blend of earth > > > phosphors that create bright, balanced full > spectrum light. > > > T-12 Fluorescent > > > 40 Watts > > > Length: 48" > > > Color Temperature: 6280K > > > CRI: 94 > > > Medium Bi-Pin Base > > > (END SNIP) > > > > > > So, as you can see, there's a few things to look > for when shopping for > > > new replacement bulbs. Look for the 5000K to > 6500K bulbs with the > > > higher lumen rating for the dollar and you should > be good. Note that a > > > 3550 or 3700 lumen bulb will put out nearly twice > as much light as a > > > 2000 lumen bulb so it can be easy to increase > your lighting without > > > increasing the wattage. DO NOT try to use HO or > VHO bulbs... which > > > look similar but have much higher wattage, well > over the 40W bulbs you > > > now have. These other HO and VHO bulbs have > different pin arrangements > > > so they will not fit in your fixture anyhow but I > just wanted to save > > > you a trip. > > > > > > Last but not least, if you're handy, you could > even take the bulbs out > > > of your fixtures and line the insides of your > fixtures with nice and > > > crisp and flat aluminum foil (shiny side exposed) > which will also > > > help. Using double stick tape and then carefully > applying the foil so > > > it does not wrinkle too much will work well... > especially if the > > > inside of your fixture is black. A white > reflector is good but a > > > mirrored reflector, like that created by the > shiny side of foil, is > > > MUCH better than a black reflector. Most black > fixtures do at least > > > have white reflector areas. > > > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>> > > (Links to any articles referenced in > > > above reply are listed on the right side, > alphabetically under Labels > > > and also under Archives by Year, Month) > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On > Behalf Of erikaandnewton > > > Sent: Tuesday, November 10, 2009 10:17 AM > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: wisteria/lighting > previous > > > question/response revisited > > > > > > << When you say "two strips" do you have > two 4' long two-bulb fixtures > > > already or something else?>> > > > > > > i have two 4' single bulb strip lights. > > > > > > >> What kind of lighting do you currently > have? Look at the bulbs and > > > >> there should be some kind of writing on > one of the ends. Give us > > > >> that info if you cannot decipher it > yourself.<< > > > > > > one bulb is a f40 t10 > > > the other one is a sylvania daylight bulb also > f40 > > > > > > >> It's probably 21" tall, since a common > measurement for a 75G is > > > >> 48"x18"x21" Tall.>> > > > > > > it is 21 inches tall > > > > > > erika wilmington de usa > > > > > > > > ------------------------------------ > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when > replying, Thank You. > ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> > ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> > PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is > NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of > the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new > subject (was re: old subject)" <- > <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. > , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. > > If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of > unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by > clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the home page.  > > Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com > to receive the digest, which includes up to 25 posts at a > time in a single email > > Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com > for the No E-Mail option where you will still be able to > read messages on the group and post replies. > > Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com > to receive individual e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links > > >     AquaticLife-fullfeatured@yahoogroups.com > > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 44408	From: bill 1433	Date: 11/11/2009
Subject: Re: wisteria/lighting previous question/response revisited

I'd like to extend a big "THANK YOU" to "Amber Berglund" on group for opening this can of worms! Thanks Again Amber! Bill <g> ya did it again girl! --- On Tue, 11/10/09, Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@...> wrote: > From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@...> > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: wisteria/lighting previous question/response revisited > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Date: Tuesday, November 10, 2009, 11:56 PM > Bookmarks and Favorites are filing > systems... if you don't know how/where > it's filed, you won't find it anyhow.  > > I have an extensive Favorites folder with dozens of primary > folders and then > dozens if not hundreds of sub-folders and sub-sub-folders, > for example, > under Favorites, I have 59 primary folders and one of them > is called > Aquarium Sites, then, in that folder, I have 44 > alphabetized sub-folders > just in that folder, from Additives and Algae to > Tutorials-Quizzes and UGF > Filters (no V,W,X,Y,Z sub-folders under Aquarium... not > sure why not).  Then > in the Algae folder, I have 7 sub-sub-folders dealing with > topics such as > Algae Eaters, Allelopathic Control, Diatoms-Brown Algae, > Hair Algae, > Hydrogen Peroxide, Pond Algae, SeaChem Flourish Excel For > Treating Algae and > then 11 other favorites about Algae in general, for a total > of 48 links, > just about Algae. > > My Favorites folder, when looking at its Properties, is > 1.41MB in size and > consists of 2,057 files (links) and 306 folders (incl. sub > and sub-sub > folders) in totality.  Many years of surfing and > saving and starting off > with an organizational plan from the start makes it easy > for me to navigate > and find things easily.  My Favorites is like a > mini-Google. ;-) > > I have been toying around with the idea of using a web > resource to keep my > Favorites folder online so I can sync it with all of my > computers and/or > just use it as an online Favorites folder that I can log > into from any > computer.  For now, I use LogMeIn (Free) to connect to > my main computer from > my laptop when I'm out in the streets playing... oops.. I > meant working. > > But I don't think I'd share my Favorites or then I'd have > to go in and edit > out all my favorite porn links... well, maybe not for Bill. > LOL > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed > on the right > side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives > by Year, Month) > > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] > On > Behalf Of Amber Berglund > Sent: Tuesday, November 10, 2009 10:25 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: wisteria/lighting previous > question/response > revisited > > No worries Bill, I do the same thing, maybe Lenny will be > so kind as to send > us all his bookmarks? LOL > > Amber > > bill 1433 wrote: > > > > Yes, Amber > > > > It was I, looking for the original information and > also looked back on > > \\Steve//'s post at group to try and find. Ray had > mentioned all this > > the other day saying that he thought the posting came > from \\Steve//. > > > > I was not successful in my search. Also, for me the > most important > > part was a link to a chart which showed you exactly, > or explained > > exactly the "T" factor stands for. For instance, T-4 > would be a tube > > that is a half inch wide, or close to it-----------I > think. All this > > is my own fault. In my interest to acquire and learn > about lighting,I > > went through and studied the applied links but being > ol'bill, I never > > bookmarked them. Then to further compound the problem, > I deleted the > > original message that it came from. In hind-sight you > could probably > > chalk this all up to felonious stupidity on my part. > > > > Bill---where its always a good day if I learn > something new! > > > > --- On Tue, 11/10/09, Amber Berglund <arberglund@... > > > <mailto:arberglund%40gmail.com>> wrote: > > > > From: Amber Berglund <arberglund@... > > > <mailto:arberglund%40gmail.com>> > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: wisteria/lighting > previous > > question/response revisited > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > Date: Tuesday, November 10, 2009, 9:30 PM > > > > I believe it was Steve who posted a link about lumens > months back when > > (I think it was maybe Bill asking) about lighting for > planted aquariums. > > Plants require 2 different spectrums of light to > properly produce > > either leaves or flowers (red is more for flower > production and blue > > is more for growth, but for the best growing you want > a mixture of BOTH > colors). > > So in reality you would want a light that appears more > brown/reddish > > in coloring and a blue/white coloring as well, but > they now have bulbs > > that have BOTH spectrums built in (I'm sure they don't > work as well as > > it would to have 2 different bulbs one mostly red and > the other mostly > > blue on the color spectrum). > > Let me see if I still have the link bookmarked. > > What I was trying to say is that Kelvin does not tell > you what color > > spectrum the light REALLY is, it's actually measuring > it's light > > output color according to how the human eyes perceive > it. So 6500 > > kelvin in general is what most plants will prefer > because that is a > > mixture of both red and blue spectrums (In MOST bulbs) > unfortunately > > not all light bulb manufactures have to use the exact > same chart for > > their colors, so they will have different colors than > another bulb > > that says it's 6500 Kelvin. what you really need to > read is the color > > chart on the box, not what lumens it says it is. > > (still searching for link, LOL). > > > > This isn't the right link but it discusses the > kelvin/lumen problems a > > little bit, still looking for the link that showed the > charts and what > > to look for in the color charts. > > http://www.americanaquariumproducts.com/Aquarium_Lighting.html > > <http://www.americanaquariumproducts.com/Aquarium_Lighting.html> > > > > Will post again when I find the other link with chart > examples. > > > > Amber > > > > Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > > > > > > I think it would be false advertising or possibly > mis-advertising > > (if they > > > do not know any better) if a company lists their > bulbs as 6500K and > > > they aren't. The Kelvin scale, just like Watts > and Lumens, are ALL > > > universal and scientifically measurable scales > BUT, as I showed > > > below, not all 40 watt bulbs put out the same > amount of light > > > (lumens) or in the same color spectrum (Kelvin > rating). All 40 watt > > > bulbs, whether incandescent, fluorescent, CFL, > LED, Halogen, etc.... > > > ALL use only/around 40 watts of electricity but > their light output > > > can vary dramatically. This is why fluorescent > bulbs are so much > > > more efficient than incandescent bulbs and CFL's > are even more > > > efficient... as a 40W fluorescent bulb puts out > > a LOT > > > more light (lumens) than a 40 watt incandescent > bulb and a 40W CFL > > > puts out more light (lumens) than a 40W > fluorescent bulb. This is > > > why the OLD "Watts Per Gallon" rule simply does > not work any more. > > > > > > BUT.. if three different companies are selling > standard T-10 > > > fluorescent bulbs with the same exact rating of > 40W, 3550 lumens and > > > 6500K rating... all three of those bulbs should > be VERY SIMILAR if > > > not identical in the way they appear to our eyes > (subject to our own > > > degree of color blindness, of > > > course!) > > > > > > In the past, things like "soft white", "warm > white", "daylight", > > > "plant grow", etc., type terms were used and are > still used but > > > those are just simple words (not subject to a > scientific scale) to > > > describe the Kelvin rating ranges but lumens are > just as important > > > since a bulb could have a 6500K rating with only > 2200 lumens where > > > another bulb could have a 6500K rating and 3550 > or 3700 lumens and > > > that bulb would put out over 50% more light > (lumens) in the same > > > color spectrum (Kelvin rating) so it > > would be a > > > much more cost effective bulb if it cost the same > amount or only a > > little > > > more. > > > > > > I'm slightly confused about the "red and blue > light for your plants" > > > as those two colors are on opposite ends of the > Kelvin Scale with > > > reds and ambers in the lower numbers and greens > and blues in the > > > higher > > numbers. I > > > think this is why you would want a mid-range > (5000K to 6500K) bulb > > > as those are generally considered "full spectrum" > or "daylight" > > > bulbs. Here's a color picture of the Kelvin > Scale, > > > http://www.bltdirect.com/images/colour-temperature.jpg > > <http://www.bltdirect.com/images/colour-temperature.jpg> > > > <http://www.bltdirect.com/images/colour-temperature.jpg > > <http://www.bltdirect.com/images/colour-temperature.jpg>> > and you can > > > visually > > > see that the 5000K to 6500K range is all about > the same "color". I > > > think this is also why Actinic bulbs are usually > higher and closer > > > to the > > 10000K > > > range and up... apparently, the Kelvin lighting > scale can go up to > > 20,000K > > > (according to this article about Reef Tanks > > > http://nh.craigslist.org/for/1423072406.html > > <http://nh.craigslist.org/for/1423072406.html> > > > <http://nh.craigslist.org/for/1423072406.html > > <http://nh.craigslist.org/for/1423072406.html>> > on, of all places, > > > Craigslist). > > > Here is the page that that the above photo link > came from and it has > > > a chart that also explains things a little more > also and talks about > > > the > > CRI, yet > > > another lighting term (Color Rendition Index). > > > http://www.bltdirect.com/lampColourTemperatures.php > > <http://www.bltdirect.com/lampColourTemperatures.php> > > > <http://www.bltdirect.com/lampColourTemperatures.php > > <http://www.bltdirect.com/lampColourTemperatures.php>> > > > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>> > > > (Links to any articles referenced in above reply > are listed on the > > > right side, alphabetically under Labels and also > under Archives by > > > Year, > > Month) > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On > Behalf Of Amber Berglund > > > Sent: Tuesday, November 10, 2009 4:22 PM > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: wisteria/lighting > previous > > > question/response revisited > > > > > > Another thing to consider is one light company's > 6500 kelvin rating > > > may not be identical to another light bulb from a > different company > > > that's rated the same. The important thing to > look at is the color > > > chart they show on the boxes, you want more red > and blue light for > > > your plants, green is not useful or harmful as > the plants reflect > > > the light back (makes them appear more green but > does nothing else > > > for them). The kelvin rating is based on our eyes > and how they > > > perceive color, so each company doesn't have to > be identical, > > > perhaps some day they will have a universal way > to measure light > > > spectrums on bulbs that is much less confusing. > > > > > > Amber > > > > > > Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > > > > > > > > OK. So you have a total of 80 watts right > now, which is just over > > > > 1 WPG, which means you only have enough > lighting for low-light, > > > > easy to grow plants. See my blog article > "Planted Tank: So You > > > > Want A Planted Tank" for links to lists of > low-light, easy to grow > > > > plants that will do OK in your tank. You > should replace those tubes at > least yearly... > > > > although some say every six months. As far > as I know, a 40W bulb > > > > is the highest wattage made for this type of > bulb/fixture right > > > > now but you can increase your lighting > > > > (lumens) and K (Kelvin) rating. See below. > > > > > > > > NOTE - below links are for > example/informational purposes only, as > > > > I know nothing about the sites. God... did I > just say that? Do I > > > > really have to add disclaimers to my posts > now? LOL Just laughing at > myself. > > > > LOL > > > > > > > > This may be your Sylvania bulb... > > > > http://www.lightbulbemporium.com/proddetail.asp?prod=F40/EX50 > > <http://www.lightbulbemporium.com/proddetail.asp?prod=F40/EX50> > > > <http://www.lightbulbemporium.com/proddetail.asp?prod=F40/EX50 > > <http://www.lightbulbemporium.com/proddetail.asp?prod=F40/EX50>> > > > > <http://www.lightbulbemporium.com/proddetail.asp?prod=F40/EX50 > > <http://www.lightbulbemporium.com/proddetail.asp?prod=F40/EX50> > > > <http://www.lightbulbemporium.com/proddetail.asp?prod=F40/EX50 > > <http://www.lightbulbemporium.com/proddetail.asp?prod=F40/EX50>>> > and > > if > > > > it is, then it's the same ratings as the > specs in the T-10 bulb > > > > that I copy/pasted below, which is a pretty > good bulb with higher > > > > lumens and the higher K rating, although not > a 6500K rated bulb. > > > > At the bottom of this page, there was a link > to this bulb... > > > > > > > > > http://www.lightbulbemporium.com/maxlite_51204_ml_f40t10_850_rscg.asp > > <http://www.lightbulbemporium.com/maxlite_51204_ml_f40t10_850_rscg.asp > > > > > > > > <http://www.lightbulbemporium.com/maxlite_51204_ml_f40t10_850_rscg.asp > > <http://www.lightbulbemporium.com/maxlite_51204_ml_f40t10_850_rscg.asp > > >> > > > > > > > > > <http://www.lightbulbemporium.com/maxlite_51204_ml_f40t10_850_rscg.asp > > <http://www.lightbulbemporium.com/maxlite_51204_ml_f40t10_850_rscg.asp > > > > > > > > <http://www.lightbulbemporium.com/maxlite_51204_ml_f40t10_850_rscg.asp > > <http://www.lightbulbemporium.com/maxlite_51204_ml_f40t10_850_rscg.asp > > >> > > > > > > > > > which > > > > has an even higher lumen rating of 3700, > although not much higher > > > > than the 3550 rating but every little bit > helps especially since > > > > the MaxLite bulb was a lower price than the > Sylvania bulb. > > > > > > > > As you will see on this page > > > > > > > > > http://www.lightbulbsdirect.com/Merchant2/merchant.mvc?page=001/CTGY/F > > <http://www.lightbulbsdirect.com/Merchant2/merchant.mvc?page=001/CTGY/ > > F> > > > > > <http://www.lightbulbsdirect.com/Merchant2/merchant.mvc?page=001/CTGY/ > > F > > <http://www.lightbulbsdirect.com/Merchant2/merchant.mvc?page=001/CTGY/ > > F>> > > > > S+Fluo > > > > > > > > > <http://www.lightbulbsdirect.com/Merchant2/merchant.mvc?page=001/CTGY/ > > <http://www.lightbulbsdirect.com/Merchant2/merchant.mvc?page=001/CTGY/ > > > > > > > > <http://www.lightbulbsdirect.com/Merchant2/merchant.mvc?page=001/CTGY/ > > <http://www.lightbulbsdirect.com/Merchant2/merchant.mvc?page=001/CTGY/ > > >> > > > > FS+Fluo> > > > > rescent > > > > > > > > The second bulb down would be similar to > yours, except we do not > > > > know the lumen or color spectrum rating on > your bulb, unless that > > > > link I gave above is actually your bulb and > then it would be the > > > > same as this one. The specs on it are: > > > > > > > > T-10 Fluorescent > > > > 40 Watts > > > > Length: 48" > > > > Medium Bi-Pin Base > > > > Color: 5000K Temperature > > > > Initial Lumens: 3550 > > > > CRI: 84 > > > > Average Life: 20,000 Hours > > > > > > > > The Color spectrum of 5000K (Kelvin) is OK > but 6500K would be much > > > better. > > > > The Lumens of 3550 is the actual amount of > *light* > > > > > > > > The next bulb down from that one is a T-12, > which will also fit in > > > > your fixture but they are bigger diameter > bulbs and this one > > > > actually puts out less light (lumens). Here > are the specs: > > > > > > > > T-12 Fluorescent > > > > 40 Watts > > > > Length: 48" > > > > Base: Medium Bi-Pin Base > > > > Initial Lumens: 2200 > > > > Average Life: 20,000 Hours > > > > Color Temperature: 5000K > > > > CRI: 92 > > > > > > > > It has the same Color spectrum but only 2200 > lumens so the above > > > > T-10 bulb has around 50% more lumens (light) > coming out of it. > > > > > > > > Now, if you scroll down to the second from > the bottom on the page, > > > > you'll see the Verilux Instant-Sun T-12 bulb > which has a higher > > > > Kelvin rating but it doesn't list the lumens > so this needs to be > > > > checked out further. While the higher K > rating is good, if it goes > > > > back down to only 2200 lumens, instead of > the 3550 lumens of the > > > > first referenced bulb above, then I would > probably go with the > > > > 3550 lumens, 5000K bulb over the 6280K bulb > if the lumens were a LOT > less. > > > > > > > > (START SNIP) > > > > Engineered to reproduce all the colors and > balance of natural > > > > light, VeriluxR full spectrum fluorescent > tubes feature Trucolite > > > > Phosphor TechnologyT which includes the use > of a stable, custom > > > > blend of earth phosphors that create bright, > balanced full spectrum > light. > > > > T-12 Fluorescent > > > > 40 Watts > > > > Length: 48" > > > > Color Temperature: 6280K > > > > CRI: 94 > > > > Medium Bi-Pin Base > > > > (END SNIP) > > > > > > > > So, as you can see, there's a few things to > look for when shopping > > > > for new replacement bulbs. Look for the > 5000K to 6500K bulbs with > > > > the higher lumen rating for the dollar and > you should be good. > > > > Note that a 3550 or 3700 lumen bulb will put > out nearly twice as > > > > much light as a 2000 lumen bulb so it can be > easy to increase your > > > > lighting without increasing the wattage. DO > NOT try to use HO or > > > > VHO bulbs... which look similar but have > much higher wattage, well > > > > over the 40W bulbs you now have. These other > HO and VHO bulbs have > > > > different pin arrangements so they will not > fit in your fixture > > > > anyhow but I just wanted to save you a > trip. > > > > > > > > Last but not least, if you're handy, you > could even take the bulbs > > > > out of your fixtures and line the insides of > your fixtures with > > > > nice and crisp and flat aluminum foil (shiny > side exposed) which > > > > will also help. Using double stick tape and > then carefully > > > > applying the foil so it does not wrinkle too > much will work > > > > well... especially if the inside of your > fixture is black. A white > > > > reflector is good but a mirrored reflector, > like that created by > > > > the shiny side of foil, is MUCH better than > a black reflector. > > > > Most black fixtures do at least have white > reflector areas. > > > > > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>> > > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>>> > > > (Links to any articles referenced in > > > > above reply are listed on the right side, > alphabetically under > > > > Labels and also under Archives by Year, > Month) > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On Behalf Of > > > > erikaandnewton > > > > Sent: Tuesday, November 10, 2009 10:17 AM > > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: wisteria/lighting > previous > > > > question/response revisited > > > > > > > > << When you say "two strips" do you > have two 4' long two-bulb > > > > fixtures already or something else?>> > > > > > > > > i have two 4' single bulb strip lights. > > > > > > > > >> What kind of lighting do you > currently have? Look at the bulbs > > > > >> and there should be some kind of > writing on one of the ends. > > > > >> Give us that info if you cannot > decipher it yourself.<< > > > > > > > > one bulb is a f40 t10 > > > > the other one is a sylvania daylight bulb > also f40 > > > > > > > > >> It's probably 21" tall, since a > common measurement for a 75G is > > > > >> 48"x18"x21" Tall.>> > > > > > > > > it is 21 inches tall > > > > > > > > erika wilmington de usa > > > > ------------------------------------ > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when > replying, Thank You. > ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> > ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> > PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is > NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of > the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new > subject (was re: old subject)" <- > <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. > , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. > > If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of > unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by > clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the home page.  > > Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com > to receive the digest, which includes up to 25 posts at a > time in a single email > > Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com > for the No E-Mail option where you will still be able to > read messages on the group and post replies. > > Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com > to receive individual e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links > > >     AquaticLife-fullfeatured@yahoogroups.com > > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 44409	From: bill 1433	Date: 11/11/2009
Subject: Re: wisteria/lighting previous question/response revisited

\\Steve// Sometimes you write things that makes me think we have already met someplace or somewhere in the past. This posting is one of those times. Being of a "near same" mind set here, its a wonder we can find anything! <g> Bill --- On Wed, 11/11/09, Steve Szabo <steve@...> wrote: > From: Steve Szabo <steve@...> > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: wisteria/lighting previous question/response revisited > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Date: Wednesday, November 11, 2009, 12:42 AM > Lenny, > I have a couple of problems. First, I do have a lot of > folders and sub > folders for things, and try to use them. However, I can > also be pressed for > time, and just bookmark it, thinking I'll fix it later. > Somehow, later comes > even later than one would expect, and when it does arrive, > I do a bunch, but > never finish going through the list. > > The other problem is that what made sense at the time, may > not make sense > when I am looking for the bookmark, possible because I a > thinking about the > topic in a different way than when I bookmarked the site. > It is kind of like > how one searches the web. If your first key words do not > provide what you > are looking for, you modify those terms and search again. > Same topic, a bit > different way of looking at it. Eventually, you will get > what you want. What > I probably need is a bookmark search engine. > > For those of you who were born and weaned with Windows, > bookmarks is the > correct term, not Microsoft's Favorites, though, I must > admit, it is > possible to have favorite bookmarks. > > \\Steve// > > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] > On > Behalf Of Lenny V. aka GoldLenny > Sent: Tuesday, November 10, 2009 11:57 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: wisteria/lighting previous > question/response > revisited > > Bookmarks and Favorites are filing systems... if you don't > know how/where > it's filed, you won't find it anyhow.  > > I have an extensive Favorites folder with dozens of primary > folders and then > dozens if not hundreds of sub-folders and sub-sub-folders, > for example, > under Favorites, I have 59 primary folders and one of them > is called > Aquarium Sites, then, in that folder, I have 44 > alphabetized sub-folders > just in that folder, from Additives and Algae to > Tutorials-Quizzes and UGF > Filters (no V,W,X,Y,Z sub-folders under Aquarium... not > sure why not).  Then > in the Algae folder, I have 7 sub-sub-folders dealing with > topics such as > Algae Eaters, Allelopathic Control, Diatoms-Brown Algae, > Hair Algae, > Hydrogen Peroxide, Pond Algae, SeaChem Flourish Excel For > Treating Algae and > then 11 other favorites about Algae in general, for a total > of 48 links, > just about Algae. > > My Favorites folder, when looking at its Properties, is > 1.41MB in size and > consists of 2,057 files (links) and 306 folders (incl. sub > and sub-sub > folders) in totality.  Many years of surfing and > saving and starting off > with an organizational plan from the start makes it easy > for me to navigate > and find things easily.  My Favorites is like a > mini-Google. ;-) > > I have been toying around with the idea of using a web > resource to keep my > Favorites folder online so I can sync it with all of my > computers and/or > just use it as an online Favorites folder that I can log > into from any > computer.  For now, I use LogMeIn (Free) to connect to > my main computer from > my laptop when I'm out in the streets playing... oops.. I > meant working. > > But I don't think I'd share my Favorites or then I'd have > to go in and edit > out all my favorite porn links... well, maybe not for Bill. > LOL > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed > on the right > side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives > by Year, Month) > > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] > On > Behalf Of Amber Berglund > Sent: Tuesday, November 10, 2009 10:25 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: wisteria/lighting previous > question/response > revisited > > No worries Bill, I do the same thing, maybe Lenny will be > so kind as to send > us all his bookmarks? LOL > > Amber > > bill 1433 wrote: > > > > Yes, Amber > > > > It was I, looking for the original information and > also looked back on > > \\Steve//'s post at group to try and find. Ray had > mentioned all this > > the other day saying that he thought the posting came > from \\Steve//. > > > > I was not successful in my search. Also, for me the > most important > > part was a link to a chart which showed you exactly, > or explained > > exactly the "T" factor stands for. For instance, T-4 > would be a tube > > that is a half inch wide, or close to it-----------I > think. All this > > is my own fault. In my interest to acquire and learn > about lighting,I > > went through and studied the applied links but being > ol'bill, I never > > bookmarked them. Then to further compound the problem, > I deleted the > > original message that it came from. In hind-sight you > could probably > > chalk this all up to felonious stupidity on my part. > > > > Bill---where its always a good day if I learn > something new! > > > > --- On Tue, 11/10/09, Amber Berglund <arberglund@... > > > <mailto:arberglund%40gmail.com>> wrote: > > > > From: Amber Berglund <arberglund@... > > > <mailto:arberglund%40gmail.com>> > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: wisteria/lighting > previous > > question/response revisited > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > Date: Tuesday, November 10, 2009, 9:30 PM > > > > I believe it was Steve who posted a link about lumens > months back when > > (I think it was maybe Bill asking) about lighting for > planted aquariums. > > Plants require 2 different spectrums of light to > properly produce > > either leaves or flowers (red is more for flower > production and blue > > is more for growth, but for the best growing you want > a mixture of BOTH > colors). > > So in reality you would want a light that appears more > brown/reddish > > in coloring and a blue/white coloring as well, but > they now have bulbs > > that have BOTH spectrums built in (I'm sure they don't > work as well as > > it would to have 2 different bulbs one mostly red and > the other mostly > > blue on the color spectrum). > > Let me see if I still have the link bookmarked. > > What I was trying to say is that Kelvin does not tell > you what color > > spectrum the light REALLY is, it's actually measuring > it's light > > output color according to how the human eyes perceive > it. So 6500 > > kelvin in general is what most plants will prefer > because that is a > > mixture of both red and blue spectrums (In MOST bulbs) > unfortunately > > not all light bulb manufactures have to use the exact > same chart for > > their colors, so they will have different colors than > another bulb > > that says it's 6500 Kelvin. what you really need to > read is the color > > chart on the box, not what lumens it says it is. > > (still searching for link, LOL). > > > > This isn't the right link but it discusses the > kelvin/lumen problems a > > little bit, still looking for the link that showed the > charts and what > > to look for in the color charts. > > http://www.americanaquariumproducts.com/Aquarium_Lighting.html > > <http://www.americanaquariumproducts.com/Aquarium_Lighting.html> > > > > Will post again when I find the other link with chart > examples. > > > > Amber > > > > Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > > > > > > I think it would be false advertising or possibly > mis-advertising > > (if they > > > do not know any better) if a company lists their > bulbs as 6500K and > > > they aren't. The Kelvin scale, just like Watts > and Lumens, are ALL > > > universal and scientifically measurable scales > BUT, as I showed > > > below, not all 40 watt bulbs put out the same > amount of light > > > (lumens) or in the same color spectrum (Kelvin > rating). All 40 watt > > > bulbs, whether incandescent, fluorescent, CFL, > LED, Halogen, etc.... > > > ALL use only/around 40 watts of electricity but > their light output > > > can vary dramatically. This is why fluorescent > bulbs are so much > > > more efficient than incandescent bulbs and CFL's > are even more > > > efficient... as a 40W fluorescent bulb puts out > > a LOT > > > more light (lumens) than a 40 watt incandescent > bulb and a 40W CFL > > > puts out more light (lumens) than a 40W > fluorescent bulb. This is > > > why the OLD "Watts Per Gallon" rule simply does > not work any more. > > > > > > BUT.. if three different companies are selling > standard T-10 > > > fluorescent bulbs with the same exact rating of > 40W, 3550 lumens and > > > 6500K rating... all three of those bulbs should > be VERY SIMILAR if > > > not identical in the way they appear to our eyes > (subject to our own > > > degree of color blindness, of > > > course!) > > > > > > In the past, things like "soft white", "warm > white", "daylight", > > > "plant grow", etc., type terms were used and are > still used but > > > those are just simple words (not subject to a > scientific scale) to > > > describe the Kelvin rating ranges but lumens are > just as important > > > since a bulb could have a 6500K rating with only > 2200 lumens where > > > another bulb could have a 6500K rating and 3550 > or 3700 lumens and > > > that bulb would put out over 50% more light > (lumens) in the same > > > color spectrum (Kelvin rating) so it > > would be a > > > much more cost effective bulb if it cost the same > amount or only a > > little > > > more. > > > > > > I'm slightly confused about the "red and blue > light for your plants" > > > as those two colors are on opposite ends of the > Kelvin Scale with > > > reds and ambers in the lower numbers and greens > and blues in the > > > higher > > numbers. I > > > think this is why you would want a mid-range > (5000K to 6500K) bulb > > > as those are generally considered "full spectrum" > or "daylight" > > > bulbs. Here's a color picture of the Kelvin > Scale, > > > http://www.bltdirect.com/images/colour-temperature.jpg > > <http://www.bltdirect.com/images/colour-temperature.jpg> > > > <http://www.bltdirect.com/images/colour-temperature.jpg > > <http://www.bltdirect.com/images/colour-temperature.jpg>> > and you can > > > visually > > > see that the 5000K to 6500K range is all about > the same "color". I > > > think this is also why Actinic bulbs are usually > higher and closer > > > to the > > 10000K > > > range and up... apparently, the Kelvin lighting > scale can go up to > > 20,000K > > > (according to this article about Reef Tanks > > > http://nh.craigslist.org/for/1423072406.html > > <http://nh.craigslist.org/for/1423072406.html> > > > <http://nh.craigslist.org/for/1423072406.html > > <http://nh.craigslist.org/for/1423072406.html>> > on, of all places, > > > Craigslist). > > > Here is the page that that the above photo link > came from and it has > > > a chart that also explains things a little more > also and talks about > > > the > > CRI, yet > > > another lighting term (Color Rendition Index). > > > http://www.bltdirect.com/lampColourTemperatures.php > > <http://www.bltdirect.com/lampColourTemperatures.php> > > > <http://www.bltdirect.com/lampColourTemperatures.php > > <http://www.bltdirect.com/lampColourTemperatures.php>> > > > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>> > > > (Links to any articles referenced in above reply > are listed on the > > > right side, alphabetically under Labels and also > under Archives by > > > Year, > > Month) > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On > Behalf Of Amber Berglund > > > Sent: Tuesday, November 10, 2009 4:22 PM > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: wisteria/lighting > previous > > > question/response revisited > > > > > > Another thing to consider is one light company's > 6500 kelvin rating > > > may not be identical to another light bulb from a > different company > > > that's rated the same. The important thing to > look at is the color > > > chart they show on the boxes, you want more red > and blue light for > > > your plants, green is not useful or harmful as > the plants reflect > > > the light back (makes them appear more green but > does nothing else > > > for them). The kelvin rating is based on our eyes > and how they > > > perceive color, so each company doesn't have to > be identical, > > > perhaps some day they will have a universal way > to measure light > > > spectrums on bulbs that is much less confusing. > > > > > > Amber > > > > > > Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > > > > > > > > OK. So you have a total of 80 watts right > now, which is just over > > > > 1 WPG, which means you only have enough > lighting for low-light, > > > > easy to grow plants. See my blog article > "Planted Tank: So You > > > > Want A Planted Tank" for links to lists of > low-light, easy to grow > > > > plants that will do OK in your tank. You > should replace those tubes at > least yearly... > > > > although some say every six months. As far > as I know, a 40W bulb > > > > is the highest wattage made for this type of > bulb/fixture right > > > > now but you can increase your lighting > > > > (lumens) and K (Kelvin) rating. See below. > > > > > > > > NOTE - below links are for > example/informational purposes only, as > > > > I know nothing about the sites. God... did I > just say that? Do I > > > > really have to add disclaimers to my posts > now? LOL Just laughing at > myself. > > > > LOL > > > > > > > > This may be your Sylvania bulb... > > > > http://www.lightbulbemporium.com/proddetail.asp?prod=F40/EX50 > > <http://www.lightbulbemporium.com/proddetail.asp?prod=F40/EX50> > > > <http://www.lightbulbemporium.com/proddetail.asp?prod=F40/EX50 > > <http://www.lightbulbemporium.com/proddetail.asp?prod=F40/EX50>> > > > > <http://www.lightbulbemporium.com/proddetail.asp?prod=F40/EX50 > > <http://www.lightbulbemporium.com/proddetail.asp?prod=F40/EX50> > > > <http://www.lightbulbemporium.com/proddetail.asp?prod=F40/EX50 > > <http://www.lightbulbemporium.com/proddetail.asp?prod=F40/EX50>>> > and > > if > > > > it is, then it's the same ratings as the > specs in the T-10 bulb > > > > that I copy/pasted below, which is a pretty > good bulb with higher > > > > lumens and the higher K rating, although not > a 6500K rated bulb. > > > > At the bottom of this page, there was a link > to this bulb... > > > > > > > > > http://www.lightbulbemporium.com/maxlite_51204_ml_f40t10_850_rscg.asp > > <http://www.lightbulbemporium.com/maxlite_51204_ml_f40t10_850_rscg.asp > > > > > > > > <http://www.lightbulbemporium.com/maxlite_51204_ml_f40t10_850_rscg.asp > > <http://www.lightbulbemporium.com/maxlite_51204_ml_f40t10_850_rscg.asp > > >> > > > > > > > > > <http://www.lightbulbemporium.com/maxlite_51204_ml_f40t10_850_rscg.asp > > <http://www.lightbulbemporium.com/maxlite_51204_ml_f40t10_850_rscg.asp > > > > > > > > <http://www.lightbulbemporium.com/maxlite_51204_ml_f40t10_850_rscg.asp > > <http://www.lightbulbemporium.com/maxlite_51204_ml_f40t10_850_rscg.asp > > >> > > > > > > > > > which > > > > has an even higher lumen rating of 3700, > although not much higher > > > > than the 3550 rating but every little bit > helps especially since > > > > the MaxLite bulb was a lower price than the > Sylvania bulb. > > > > > > > > As you will see on this page > > > > > > > > > http://www.lightbulbsdirect.com/Merchant2/merchant.mvc?page=001/CTGY/F > > <http://www.lightbulbsdirect.com/Merchant2/merchant.mvc?page=001/CTGY/ > > F> > > > > > <http://www.lightbulbsdirect.com/Merchant2/merchant.mvc?page=001/CTGY/ > > F > > <http://www.lightbulbsdirect.com/Merchant2/merchant.mvc?page=001/CTGY/ > > F>> > > > > S+Fluo > > > > > > > > > <http://www.lightbulbsdirect.com/Merchant2/merchant.mvc?page=001/CTGY/ > > <http://www.lightbulbsdirect.com/Merchant2/merchant.mvc?page=001/CTGY/ > > > > > > > > <http://www.lightbulbsdirect.com/Merchant2/merchant.mvc?page=001/CTGY/ > > <http://www.lightbulbsdirect.com/Merchant2/merchant.mvc?page=001/CTGY/ > > >> > > > > FS+Fluo> > > > > rescent > > > > > > > > The second bulb down would be similar to > yours, except we do not > > > > know the lumen or color spectrum rating on > your bulb, unless that > > > > link I gave above is actually your bulb and > then it would be the > > > > same as this one. The specs on it are: > > > > > > > > T-10 Fluorescent > > > > 40 Watts > > > > Length: 48" > > > > Medium Bi-Pin Base > > > > Color: 5000K Temperature > > > > Initial Lumens: 3550 > > > > CRI: 84 > > > > Average Life: 20,000 Hours > > > > > > > > The Color spectrum of 5000K (Kelvin) is OK > but 6500K would be much > > > better. > > > > The Lumens of 3550 is the actual amount of > *light* > > > > > > > > The next bulb down from that one is a T-12, > which will also fit in > > > > your fixture but they are bigger diameter > bulbs and this one > > > > actually puts out less light (lumens). Here > are the specs: > > > > > > > > T-12 Fluorescent > > > > 40 Watts > > > > Length: 48" > > > > Base: Medium Bi-Pin Base > > > > Initial Lumens: 2200 > > > > Average Life: 20,000 Hours > > > > Color Temperature: 5000K > > > > CRI: 92 > > > > > > > > It has the same Color spectrum but only 2200 > lumens so the above > > > > T-10 bulb has around 50% more lumens (light) > coming out of it. > > > > > > > > Now, if you scroll down to the second from > the bottom on the page, > > > > you'll see the Verilux Instant-Sun T-12 bulb > which has a higher > > > > Kelvin rating but it doesn't list the lumens > so this needs to be > > > > checked out further. While the higher K > rating is good, if it goes > > > > back down to only 2200 lumens, instead of > the 3550 lumens of the > > > > first referenced bulb above, then I would > probably go with the > > > > 3550 lumens, 5000K bulb over the 6280K bulb > if the lumens were a LOT > less. > > > > > > > > (START SNIP) > > > > Engineered to reproduce all the colors and > balance of natural > > > > light, VeriluxR full spectrum fluorescent > tubes feature Trucolite > > > > Phosphor TechnologyT which includes the use > of a stable, custom > > > > blend of earth phosphors that create bright, > balanced full spectrum > light. > > > > T-12 Fluorescent > > > > 40 Watts > > > > Length: 48" > > > > Color Temperature: 6280K > > > > CRI: 94 > > > > Medium Bi-Pin Base > > > > (END SNIP) > > > > > > > > So, as you can see, there's a few things to > look for when shopping > > > > for new replacement bulbs. Look for the > 5000K to 6500K bulbs with > > > > the higher lumen rating for the dollar and > you should be good. > > > > Note that a 3550 or 3700 lumen bulb will put > out nearly twice as > > > > much light as a 2000 lumen bulb so it can be > easy to increase your > > > > lighting without increasing the wattage. DO > NOT try to use HO or > > > > VHO bulbs... which look similar but have > much higher wattage, well > > > > over the 40W bulbs you now have. These other > HO and VHO bulbs have > > > > different pin arrangements so they will not > fit in your fixture > > > > anyhow but I just wanted to save you a > trip. > > > > > > > > Last but not least, if you're handy, you > could even take the bulbs > > > > out of your fixtures and line the insides of > your fixtures with > > > > nice and crisp and flat aluminum foil (shiny > side exposed) which > > > > will also help. Using double stick tape and > then carefully > > > > applying the foil so it does not wrinkle too > much will work > > > > well... especially if the inside of your > fixture is black. A white > > > > reflector is good but a mirrored reflector, > like that created by > > > > the shiny side of foil, is MUCH better than > a black reflector. > > > > Most black fixtures do at least have white > reflector areas. > > > > > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>> > > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>>> > > > (Links to any articles referenced in > > > > above reply are listed on the right side, > alphabetically under > > > > Labels and also under Archives by Year, > Month) > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On Behalf Of > > > > erikaandnewton > > > > Sent: Tuesday, November 10, 2009 10:17 AM > > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: wisteria/lighting > previous > > > > question/response revisited > > > > > > > > << When you say "two strips" do you > have two 4' long two-bulb > > > > fixtures already or something else?>> > > > > > > > > i have two 4' single bulb strip lights. > > > > > > > > >> What kind of lighting do you > currently have? Look at the bulbs > > > > >> and there should be some kind of > writing on one of the ends. > > > > >> Give us that info if you cannot > decipher it yourself.<< > > > > > > > > one bulb is a f40 t10 > > > > the other one is a sylvania daylight bulb > also f40 > > > > > > > > >> It's probably 21" tall, since a > common measurement for a 75G is > > > > >> 48"x18"x21" Tall.>> > > > > > > > > it is 21 inches tall > > > > > > > > erika wilmington de usa > > > > > > ------------------------------------ > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when > replying, Thank You. > ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> > ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> > PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is > NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of > the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new > subject (was re: old subject)" <- > <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. > , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. > > If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of > unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by > clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the home page.  > > Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com > to receive the digest, which includes up to 25 posts at a > time in a single email > > Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com > for the No E-Mail option where you will still be able to > read messages on the group and post replies. > > Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com > to receive individual e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links > > >     AquaticLife-fullfeatured@yahoogroups.com > > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 44410	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 11/11/2009
Subject: Re: wisteria/lighting previous question/response revisited

You're very welcome Bill ;) LOL Amber bill 1433 wrote: > > I'd like to extend a big "THANK YOU" to > "Amber Berglund" on group for opening this can of worms! > > Thanks Again Amber! > > Bill <g> ya did it again girl! > > --- On Tue, 11/10/09, Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@... > <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com>> wrote: > > > From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@... > <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com>> > > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: wisteria/lighting previous > question/response revisited > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > Date: Tuesday, November 10, 2009, 11:56 PM > > Bookmarks and Favorites are filing > > systems... if you don't know how/where > > it's filed, you won't find it anyhow. > > > > I have an extensive Favorites folder with dozens of primary > > folders and then > > dozens if not hundreds of sub-folders and sub-sub-folders, > > for example, > > under Favorites, I have 59 primary folders and one of them > > is called > > Aquarium Sites, then, in that folder, I have 44 > > alphabetized sub-folders > > just in that folder, from Additives and Algae to > > Tutorials-Quizzes and UGF > > Filters (no V,W,X,Y,Z sub-folders under Aquarium... not > > sure why not). Then > > in the Algae folder, I have 7 sub-sub-folders dealing with > > topics such as > > Algae Eaters, Allelopathic Control, Diatoms-Brown Algae, > > Hair Algae, > > Hydrogen Peroxide, Pond Algae, SeaChem Flourish Excel For > > Treating Algae and > > then 11 other favorites about Algae in general, for a total > > of 48 links, > > just about Algae. > > > > My Favorites folder, when looking at its Properties, is > > 1.41MB in size and > > consists of 2,057 files (links) and 306 folders (incl. sub > > and sub-sub > > folders) in totality. Many years of surfing and > > saving and starting off > > with an organizational plan from the start makes it easy > > for me to navigate > > and find things easily. My Favorites is like a > > mini-Google. ;-) > > > > I have been toying around with the idea of using a web > > resource to keep my > > Favorites folder online so I can sync it with all of my > > computers and/or > > just use it as an online Favorites folder that I can log > > into from any > > computer. For now, I use LogMeIn (Free) to connect to > > my main computer from > > my laptop when I'm out in the streets playing... oops.. I > > meant working. > > > > But I don't think I'd share my Favorites or then I'd have > > to go in and edit > > out all my favorite porn links... well, maybe not for Bill. > > LOL > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed > > on the right > > side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives > > by Year, Month) > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] > > On > > Behalf Of Amber Berglund > > Sent: Tuesday, November 10, 2009 10:25 PM > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: wisteria/lighting previous > > question/response > > revisited > > > > No worries Bill, I do the same thing, maybe Lenny will be > > so kind as to send > > us all his bookmarks? LOL > > > > Amber > > > > bill 1433 wrote: > > > > > > Yes, Amber > > > > > > It was I, looking for the original information and > > also looked back on > > > \\Steve//'s post at group to try and find. Ray had > > mentioned all this > > > the other day saying that he thought the posting came > > from \\Steve//. > > > > > > I was not successful in my search. Also, for me the > > most important > > > part was a link to a chart which showed you exactly, > > or explained > > > exactly the "T" factor stands for. For instance, T-4 > > would be a tube > > > that is a half inch wide, or close to it-----------I > > think. All this > > > is my own fault. In my interest to acquire and learn > > about lighting,I > > > went through and studied the applied links but being > > ol'bill, I never > > > bookmarked them. Then to further compound the problem, > > I deleted the > > > original message that it came from. In hind-sight you > > could probably > > > chalk this all up to felonious stupidity on my part. > > > > > > Bill---where its always a good day if I learn > > something new! > > > > > > --- On Tue, 11/10/09, Amber Berglund <arberglund@... > <mailto:arberglund%40gmail.com> > > > > > <mailto:arberglund%40gmail.com>> wrote: > > > > > > From: Amber Berglund <arberglund@... > <mailto:arberglund%40gmail.com> > > > > > <mailto:arberglund%40gmail.com>> > > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: wisteria/lighting > > previous > > > question/response revisited > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > Date: Tuesday, November 10, 2009, 9:30 PM > > > > > > I believe it was Steve who posted a link about lumens > > months back when > > > (I think it was maybe Bill asking) about lighting for > > planted aquariums. > > > Plants require 2 different spectrums of light to > > properly produce > > > either leaves or flowers (red is more for flower > > production and blue > > > is more for growth, but for the best growing you want > > a mixture of BOTH > > colors). > > > So in reality you would want a light that appears more > > brown/reddish > > > in coloring and a blue/white coloring as well, but > > they now have bulbs > > > that have BOTH spectrums built in (I'm sure they don't > > work as well as > > > it would to have 2 different bulbs one mostly red and > > the other mostly > > > blue on the color spectrum). > > > Let me see if I still have the link bookmarked. > > > What I was trying to say is that Kelvin does not tell > > you what color > > > spectrum the light REALLY is, it's actually measuring > > it's light > > > output color according to how the human eyes perceive > > it. So 6500 > > > kelvin in general is what most plants will prefer > > because that is a > > > mixture of both red and blue spectrums (In MOST bulbs) > > unfortunately > > > not all light bulb manufactures have to use the exact > > same chart for > > > their colors, so they will have different colors than > > another bulb > > > that says it's 6500 Kelvin. what you really need to > > read is the color > > > chart on the box, not what lumens it says it is. > > > (still searching for link, LOL). > > > > > > This isn't the right link but it discusses the > > kelvin/lumen problems a > > > little bit, still looking for the link that showed the > > charts and what > > > to look for in the color charts. > > > http://www.americanaquariumproducts.com/Aquarium_Lighting.html > <http://www.americanaquariumproducts.com/Aquarium_Lighting.html> > > > <http://www.americanaquariumproducts.com/Aquarium_Lighting.html > <http://www.americanaquariumproducts.com/Aquarium_Lighting.html>> > > > > > > Will post again when I find the other link with chart > > examples. > > > > > > Amber > > > > > > Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > > > > > > > > I think it would be false advertising or possibly > > mis-advertising > > > (if they > > > > do not know any better) if a company lists their > > bulbs as 6500K and > > > > they aren't. The Kelvin scale, just like Watts > > and Lumens, are ALL > > > > universal and scientifically measurable scales > > BUT, as I showed > > > > below, not all 40 watt bulbs put out the same > > amount of light > > > > (lumens) or in the same color spectrum (Kelvin > > rating). All 40 watt > > > > bulbs, whether incandescent, fluorescent, CFL, > > LED, Halogen, etc.... > > > > ALL use only/around 40 watts of electricity but > > their light output > > > > can vary dramatically. This is why fluorescent > > bulbs are so much > > > > more efficient than incandescent bulbs and CFL's > > are even more > > > > efficient... as a 40W fluorescent bulb puts out > > > a LOT > > > > more light (lumens) than a 40 watt incandescent > > bulb and a 40W CFL > > > > puts out more light (lumens) than a 40W > > fluorescent bulb. This is > > > > why the OLD "Watts Per Gallon" rule simply does > > not work any more. > > > > > > > > BUT.. if three different companies are selling > > standard T-10 > > > > fluorescent bulbs with the same exact rating of > > 40W, 3550 lumens and > > > > 6500K rating... all three of those bulbs should > > be VERY SIMILAR if > > > > not identical in the way they appear to our eyes > > (subject to our own > > > > degree of color blindness, of > > > > course!) > > > > > > > > In the past, things like "soft white", "warm > > white", "daylight", > > > > "plant grow", etc., type terms were used and are > > still used but > > > > those are just simple words (not subject to a > > scientific scale) to > > > > describe the Kelvin rating ranges but lumens are > > just as important > > > > since a bulb could have a 6500K rating with only > > 2200 lumens where > > > > another bulb could have a 6500K rating and 3550 > > or 3700 lumens and > > > > that bulb would put out over 50% more light > > (lumens) in the same > > > > color spectrum (Kelvin rating) so it > > > would be a > > > > much more cost effective bulb if it cost the same > > amount or only a > > > little > > > > more. > > > > > > > > I'm slightly confused about the "red and blue > > light for your plants" > > > > as those two colors are on opposite ends of the > > Kelvin Scale with > > > > reds and ambers in the lower numbers and greens > > and blues in the > > > > higher > > > numbers. I > > > > think this is why you would want a mid-range > > (5000K to 6500K) bulb > > > > as those are generally considered "full spectrum" > > or "daylight" > > > > bulbs. Here's a color picture of the Kelvin > > Scale, > > > > http://www.bltdirect.com/images/colour-temperature.jpg > <http://www.bltdirect.com/images/colour-temperature.jpg> > > > <http://www.bltdirect.com/images/colour-temperature.jpg > <http://www.bltdirect.com/images/colour-temperature.jpg>> > > > > <http://www.bltdirect.com/images/colour-temperature.jpg > <http://www.bltdirect.com/images/colour-temperature.jpg> > > > <http://www.bltdirect.com/images/colour-temperature.jpg > <http://www.bltdirect.com/images/colour-temperature.jpg>>> > > and you can > > > > visually > > > > see that the 5000K to 6500K range is all about > > the same "color". I > > > > think this is also why Actinic bulbs are usually > > higher and closer > > > > to the > > > 10000K > > > > range and up... apparently, the Kelvin lighting > > scale can go up to > > > 20,000K > > > > (according to this article about Reef Tanks > > > > http://nh.craigslist.org/for/1423072406.html > <http://nh.craigslist.org/for/1423072406.html> > > > <http://nh.craigslist.org/for/1423072406.html > <http://nh.craigslist.org/for/1423072406.html>> > > > > <http://nh.craigslist.org/for/1423072406.html > <http://nh.craigslist.org/for/1423072406.html> > > > <http://nh.craigslist.org/for/1423072406.html > <http://nh.craigslist.org/for/1423072406.html>>> > > on, of all places, > > > > Craigslist). > > > > Here is the page that that the above photo link > > came from and it has > > > > a chart that also explains things a little more > > also and talks about > > > > the > > > CRI, yet > > > > another lighting term (Color Rendition Index). > > > > http://www.bltdirect.com/lampColourTemperatures.php > <http://www.bltdirect.com/lampColourTemperatures.php> > > > <http://www.bltdirect.com/lampColourTemperatures.php > <http://www.bltdirect.com/lampColourTemperatures.php>> > > > > <http://www.bltdirect.com/lampColourTemperatures.php > <http://www.bltdirect.com/lampColourTemperatures.php> > > > <http://www.bltdirect.com/lampColourTemperatures.php > <http://www.bltdirect.com/lampColourTemperatures.php>>> > > > > > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>>> > > > > (Links to any articles referenced in above reply > > are listed on the > > > > right side, alphabetically under Labels and also > > under Archives by > > > > Year, > > > Month) > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On > > Behalf Of Amber Berglund > > > > Sent: Tuesday, November 10, 2009 4:22 PM > > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: wisteria/lighting > > previous > > > > question/response revisited > > > > > > > > Another thing to consider is one light company's > > 6500 kelvin rating > > > > may not be identical to another light bulb from a > > different company > > > > that's rated the same. The important thing to > > look at is the color > > > > chart they show on the boxes, you want more red > > and blue light for > > > > your plants, green is not useful or harmful as > > the plants reflect > > > > the light back (makes them appear more green but > > does nothing else > > > > for them). The kelvin rating is based on our eyes > > and how they > > > > perceive color, so each company doesn't have to > > be identical, > > > > perhaps some day they will have a universal way > > to measure light > > > > spectrums on bulbs that is much less confusing. > > > > > > > > Amber > > > > > > > > Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > > > > > > > > > > OK. So you have a total of 80 watts right > > now, which is just over > > > > > 1 WPG, which means you only have enough > > lighting for low-light, > > > > > easy to grow plants. See my blog article > > "Planted Tank: So You > > > > > Want A Planted Tank" for links to lists of > > low-light, easy to grow > > > > > plants that will do OK in your tank. You > > should replace those tubes at > > least yearly... > > > > > although some say every six months. As far > > as I know, a 40W bulb > > > > > is the highest wattage made for this type of > > bulb/fixture right > > > > > now but you can increase your lighting > > > > > (lumens) and K (Kelvin) rating. See below. > > > > > > > > > > NOTE - below links are for > > example/informational purposes only, as > > > > > I know nothing about the sites. God... did I > > just say that? Do I > > > > > really have to add disclaimers to my posts > > now? LOL Just laughing at > > myself. > > > > > LOL > > > > > > > > > > This may be your Sylvania bulb... > > > > > http://www.lightbulbemporium.com/proddetail.asp?prod=F40/EX50 > <http://www.lightbulbemporium.com/proddetail.asp?prod=F40/EX50> > > > <http://www.lightbulbemporium.com/proddetail.asp?prod=F40/EX50 > <http://www.lightbulbemporium.com/proddetail.asp?prod=F40/EX50>> > > > > <http://www.lightbulbemporium.com/proddetail.asp?prod=F40/EX50 > <http://www.lightbulbemporium.com/proddetail.asp?prod=F40/EX50> > > > <http://www.lightbulbemporium.com/proddetail.asp?prod=F40/EX50 > <http://www.lightbulbemporium.com/proddetail.asp?prod=F40/EX50>>> > > > > > <http://www.lightbulbemporium.com/proddetail.asp?prod=F40/EX50 > <http://www.lightbulbemporium.com/proddetail.asp?prod=F40/EX50> > > > <http://www.lightbulbemporium.com/proddetail.asp?prod=F40/EX50 > <http://www.lightbulbemporium.com/proddetail.asp?prod=F40/EX50>> > > > > <http://www.lightbulbemporium.com/proddetail.asp?prod=F40/EX50 > <http://www.lightbulbemporium.com/proddetail.asp?prod=F40/EX50> > > > <http://www.lightbulbemporium.com/proddetail.asp?prod=F40/EX50 > <http://www.lightbulbemporium.com/proddetail.asp?prod=F40/EX50>>>> > > and > > > if > > > > > it is, then it's the same ratings as the > > specs in the T-10 bulb > > > > > that I copy/pasted below, which is a pretty > > good bulb with higher > > > > > lumens and the higher K rating, although not > > a 6500K rated bulb. > > > > > At the bottom of this page, there was a link > > to this bulb... > > > > > > > > > > > > > http://www.lightbulbemporium.com/maxlite_51204_ml_f40t10_850_rscg.asp > <http://www.lightbulbemporium.com/maxlite_51204_ml_f40t10_850_rscg.asp> > > > > <http://www.lightbulbemporium.com/maxlite_51204_ml_f40t10_850_rscg.asp > <http://www.lightbulbemporium.com/maxlite_51204_ml_f40t10_850_rscg.asp> > > > > > > > > > > > > <http://www.lightbulbemporium.com/maxlite_51204_ml_f40t10_850_rscg.asp > <http://www.lightbulbemporium.com/maxlite_51204_ml_f40t10_850_rscg.asp> > > > > <http://www.lightbulbemporium.com/maxlite_51204_ml_f40t10_850_rscg.asp > <http://www.lightbulbemporium.com/maxlite_51204_ml_f40t10_850_rscg.asp> > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > <http://www.lightbulbemporium.com/maxlite_51204_ml_f40t10_850_rscg.asp > <http://www.lightbulbemporium.com/maxlite_51204_ml_f40t10_850_rscg.asp> > > > > <http://www.lightbulbemporium.com/maxlite_51204_ml_f40t10_850_rscg.asp > <http://www.lightbulbemporium.com/maxlite_51204_ml_f40t10_850_rscg.asp> > > > > > > > > > > > > <http://www.lightbulbemporium.com/maxlite_51204_ml_f40t10_850_rscg.asp > <http://www.lightbulbemporium.com/maxlite_51204_ml_f40t10_850_rscg.asp> > > > > <http://www.lightbulbemporium.com/maxlite_51204_ml_f40t10_850_rscg.asp > <http://www.lightbulbemporium.com/maxlite_51204_ml_f40t10_850_rscg.asp> > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > which > > > > > has an even higher lumen rating of 3700, > > although not much higher > > > > > than the 3550 rating but every little bit > > helps especially since > > > > > the MaxLite bulb was a lower price than the > > Sylvania bulb. > > > > > > > > > > As you will see on this page > > > > > > > > > > > > > http://www.lightbulbsdirect.com/Merchant2/merchant.mvc?page=001/CTGY/F > <http://www.lightbulbsdirect.com/Merchant2/merchant.mvc?page=001/CTGY/F> > > > > <http://www.lightbulbsdirect.com/Merchant2/merchant.mvc?page=001/CTGY/ > <http://www.lightbulbsdirect.com/Merchant2/merchant.mvc?page=001/CTGY/> > > > F> > > > > > > > > <http://www.lightbulbsdirect.com/Merchant2/merchant.mvc?page=001/CTGY/ > <http://www.lightbulbsdirect.com/Merchant2/merchant.mvc?page=001/CTGY/> > > > F > > > > <http://www.lightbulbsdirect.com/Merchant2/merchant.mvc?page=001/CTGY/ > <http://www.lightbulbsdirect.com/Merchant2/merchant.mvc?page=001/CTGY/> > > > F>> > > > > > S+Fluo > > > > > > > > > > > > > <http://www.lightbulbsdirect.com/Merchant2/merchant.mvc?page=001/CTGY/ > <http://www.lightbulbsdirect.com/Merchant2/merchant.mvc?page=001/CTGY/> > > > > <http://www.lightbulbsdirect.com/Merchant2/merchant.mvc?page=001/CTGY/ > <http://www.lightbulbsdirect.com/Merchant2/merchant.mvc?page=001/CTGY/> > > > > > > > > > > > > <http://www.lightbulbsdirect.com/Merchant2/merchant.mvc?page=001/CTGY/ > <http://www.lightbulbsdirect.com/Merchant2/merchant.mvc?page=001/CTGY/> > > > > <http://www.lightbulbsdirect.com/Merchant2/merchant.mvc?page=001/CTGY/ > <http://www.lightbulbsdirect.com/Merchant2/merchant.mvc?page=001/CTGY/> > > > >> > > > > > FS+Fluo> > > > > > rescent > > > > > > > > > > The second bulb down would be similar to > > yours, except we do not > > > > > know the lumen or color spectrum rating on > > your bulb, unless that > > > > > link I gave above is actually your bulb and > > then it would be the > > > > > same as this one. The specs on it are: > > > > > > > > > > T-10 Fluorescent > > > > > 40 Watts > > > > > Length: 48" > > > > > Medium Bi-Pin Base > > > > > Color: 5000K Temperature > > > > > Initial Lumens: 3550 > > > > > CRI: 84 > > > > > Average Life: 20,000 Hours > > > > > > > > > > The Color spectrum of 5000K (Kelvin) is OK > > but 6500K would be much > > > > better. > > > > > The Lumens of 3550 is the actual amount of > > *light* > > > > > > > > > > The next bulb down from that one is a T-12, > > which will also fit in > > > > > your fixture but they are bigger diameter > > bulbs and this one > > > > > actually puts out less light (lumens). Here > > are the specs: > > > > > > > > > > T-12 Fluorescent > > > > > 40 Watts > > > > > Length: 48" > > > > > Base: Medium Bi-Pin Base > > > > > Initial Lumens: 2200 > > > > > Average Life: 20,000 Hours > > > > > Color Temperature: 5000K > > > > > CRI: 92 > > > > > > > > > > It has the same Color spectrum but only 2200 > > lumens so the above > > > > > T-10 bulb has around 50% more lumens (light) > > coming out of it. > > > > > > > > > > Now, if you scroll down to the second from > > the bottom on the page, > > > > > you'll see the Verilux Instant-Sun T-12 bulb > > which has a higher > > > > > Kelvin rating but it doesn't list the lumens > > so this needs to be > > > > > checked out further. While the higher K > > rating is good, if it goes > > > > > back down to only 2200 lumens, instead of > > the 3550 lumens of the > > > > > first referenced bulb above, then I would > > probably go with the > > > > > 3550 lumens, 5000K bulb over the 6280K bulb > > if the lumens were a LOT > > less. > > > > > > > > > > (START SNIP) > > > > > Engineered to reproduce all the colors and > > balance of natural > > > > > light, VeriluxR full spectrum fluorescent > > tubes feature Trucolite > > > > > Phosphor TechnologyT which includes the use > > of a stable, custom > > > > > blend of earth phosphors that create bright, > > balanced full spectrum > > light. > > > > > T-12 Fluorescent > > > > > 40 Watts > > > > > Length: 48" > > > > > Color Temperature: 6280K > > > > > CRI: 94 > > > > > Medium Bi-Pin Base > > > > > (END SNIP) > > > > > > > > > > So, as you can see, there's a few things to > > look for when shopping > > > > > for new replacement bulbs. Look for the > > 5000K to 6500K bulbs with > > > > > the higher lumen rating for the dollar and > > you should be good. > > > > > Note that a 3550 or 3700 lumen bulb will put > > out nearly twice as > > > > > much light as a 2000 lumen bulb so it can be > > easy to increase your > > > > > lighting without increasing the wattage. DO > > NOT try to use HO or > > > > > VHO bulbs... which look similar but have > > much higher wattage, well > > > > > over the 40W bulbs you now have. These other > > HO and VHO bulbs have > > > > > different pin arrangements so they will not > > fit in your fixture > > > > > anyhow but I just wanted to save you a > > trip. > > > > > > > > > > Last but not least, if you're handy, you > > could even take the bulbs > > > > > out of your fixtures and line the insides of > > your fixtures with > > > > > nice and crisp and flat aluminum foil (shiny > > side exposed) which > > > > > will also help. Using double stick tape and > > then carefully > > > > > applying the foil so it does not wrinkle too > > much will work > > > > > well... especially if the inside of your > > fixture is black. A white > > > > > reflector is good but a mirrored reflector, > > like that created by > > > > > the shiny side of foil, is MUCH better than > > a black reflector. > > > > > Most black fixtures do at least have white > > reflector areas. > > > > > > > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > > > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>> > > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>>> > > > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>> > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>>>> > > > > (Links to any articles referenced in > > > > > above reply are listed on the right side, > > alphabetically under > > > > > Labels and also under Archives by Year, > > Month) > > > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On Behalf Of > > > > > erikaandnewton > > > > > Sent: Tuesday, November 10, 2009 10:17 AM > > > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: wisteria/lighting > > previous > > > > > question/response revisited > > > > > > > > > > << When you say "two strips" do you > > have two 4' long two-bulb > > > > > fixtures already or something else?>> > > > > > > > > > > i have two 4' single bulb strip lights. > > > > > > > > > > >> What kind of lighting do you > > currently have? Look at the bulbs > > > > > >> and there should be some kind of > > writing on one of the ends. > > > > > >> Give us that info if you cannot > > decipher it yourself.<< > > > > > > > > > > one bulb is a f40 t10 > > > > > the other one is a sylvania daylight bulb > > also f40 > > > > > > > > > > >> It's probably 21" tall, since a > > common measurement for a 75G is > > > > > >> 48"x18"x21" Tall.>> > > > > > > > > > > it is 21 inches tall > > > > > > > > > > erika wilmington de usa > > > > > > > > ------------------------------------ > > > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when > > replying, Thank You. > > ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> > > ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> > > PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is > > NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of > > the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new > > subject (was re: old subject)" <- > > <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. > > , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. > > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. > > > > If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of > > unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by > > clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the home page. > > > > Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:aquaticlife-digest%40yahoogroups.com> > > to receive the digest, which includes up to 25 posts at a > > time in a single email > > > > Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:aquaticlife-nomail%40yahoogroups.com> > > for the No E-Mail option where you will still be able to > > read messages on the group and post replies. > > > > Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:aquaticlife-normal%40yahoogroups.com> > > to receive individual e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > AquaticLife-fullfeatured@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife-fullfeatured%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 44411	From: bill 1433	Date: 11/11/2009
Subject: Re: wisteria/lighting previous question/response revisited

An excellent presentation \\Steve//! Makes me remember the old days, minus Windows (GUI), when we all looked at the very scary all black screen, with the nice white printing on it, and tried as hard as we could to type in the correct command line! God, those were the days. Bill --- On Wed, 11/11/09, Steve Szabo <steve@...> wrote: > From: Steve Szabo <steve@...> > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: wisteria/lighting previous question/response revisited > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Date: Wednesday, November 11, 2009, 6:42 AM > Lenny, > > I don't need no steenkin' hack. In Firefox, the bookmarks > are kept as they > should be, as one file, not each bookmark in a separate > file gobbling up > disk space as IE does. It also eats up space in the MFT > (Master File Table). > > For those who do not know about such things, when a drive > is formatted to > hold data, it is broken up into groups of sectors, known as > clusters, the > value of which defaults, in Windows, to 4K (4096 bytes). > They can be any > value from 512 bytes to at least 32K (it may be even larger > now, with NTFS > (new technology file system, but 32K was the limit under 16 > bit DOS). When a > file is written to disk, using 4K cluster size for the > example, it takes up > as many clusters as needed. So, a file that is 32K in size > would use 8 > clusters (4K x 8). A file that is 28K would use 7 clusters > (28 k/4K=7). > However, a file that is 29K would use 8 clusters. It would > fill the 7 > clusters, with an extra 1024 bytes, which are placed in the > next, or 8th > cluster, leaving 3K of that cluster as being unavailable to > another file. > > Consider now, that each bookmark is generally less than 1K > (1024 bytes). > When you are using IE (Internet Explorer), that means that > you are wasting > 3K of each available cluster to store the bookmark as a > file.  Let us assume > you have 400 bookmarks. I am sure you can do the math. That > would mean that > you have 400 files, each taking up 4K of disk space, > meaning that you are > using 1600K to store those files. This means that 400 > entries are placed in > the MFT. > > In the case of Firefox, and other browsers not based on IE, > all the > bookmarks are stored in a file. Say that you have the same > 400 bookmarks, > using 1K as the size of each bookmark, on average, that > would mean that you > have a file that is 400K in size, which (conveniently, it > seems) works out > to a 100K file, stored in 25 clusters and 1 entry in the > MFT. A great > savings in disk space. > > There are other issues to consider here as well, but I am > sure you are > plenty bored by know. However, (oh no!, he's going to say > more even though > he said he was done) please keep in mind that drive > manufacturers use a > decimal system to calculate drive sizes, so that 250GB > drive you have in > your box is not 250GB to the computer, which uses a binary > system to > calculate drive size. That is why, when you look at the > drive size through > your operating system, the drive appears to be smaller than > advertised. It's > kind of like that 55 gallon tank that actually holds less > than 55 gallons. > Tank measurements are measuring the outside dimensions of > the tank not the > inside dimensions, plus, none of use fills a tank right to > the top of the > tank, giving us an actual capacity of somewhat less than 55 > gallons, and > that is before we add substrate and decorations, fish, and > plants to the > tank, each displacing a certain amount of water. (You may > insert your own > Archimedes joke here.) (Notice how I actually brought this > back onto an > aquarium topic?) > > \\Steve// > > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] > On > Behalf Of Lenny V. aka GoldLenny > Sent: Wednesday, November 11, 2009 1:30 AM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: wisteria/lighting previous > question/response > revisited > > Yeah... I keep kind of hoping that Google will eventually > provide an online > "Bookmarks/Favorites" service or homepage add-in, which > would also include a > search feature and maybe even a way to scan for bad links > in the > Bookmarks/Favorites instead of finding out when you go to > use that long kept > bookmark/favorite and the site no longer exists... of > course, there's always > the Wayback Machine at the Internet Archive http://www.archive.org to find > websites/pages that have disappeared from the net. > > I regularly go into my IE Favorites and use the "Organize > Favorites" feature > to move things around but also will use Windows Explorer, > C:\Documents and > Settings\Owner\Favorites\, to look at my Favorites folder > and drag and drop, > move and rename things around in there. > > Then, there is this Registry hack to mass sort the > Favorites folder, > sub-folders and files, instead of having to "Sort By Name" > inside each > folder.  From > http://www.theeldergeek.com/sort_favorites_menu_alphabetical.htm > (with some > added instructions by me to clarify some things). > > Sort Favorites Menu Alphabetically > [Start] [Run] [Regedit] > Registry Key: > HKEY_CURRENT_USER\Software\Microsoft\Windows\CurrentVersion\Explorer\MenuOrd > er\Favorites > (Click on Favorites to highlight, then in the view panel) > Right click the Favorites key *Order* and click Delete > Exit registry and reboot. > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed > on the right > side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives > by Year, Month) > > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] > On > Behalf Of Steve Szabo > Sent: Tuesday, November 10, 2009 11:43 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: wisteria/lighting previous > question/response > revisited > > Lenny, > I have a couple of problems. First, I do have a lot of > folders and sub > folders for things, and try to use them. However, I can > also be pressed for > time, and just bookmark it, thinking I'll fix it later. > Somehow, later comes > even later than one would expect, and when it does arrive, > I do a bunch, but > never finish going through the list. > > The other problem is that what made sense at the time, may > not make sense > when I am looking for the bookmark, possible because I a > thinking about the > topic in a different way than when I bookmarked the site. > It is kind of like > how one searches the web. If your first key words do not > provide what you > are looking for, you modify those terms and search again. > Same topic, a bit > different way of looking at it. Eventually, you will get > what you want. What > I probably need is a bookmark search engine. > > For those of you who were born and weaned with Windows, > bookmarks is the > correct term, not Microsoft's Favorites, though, I must > admit, it is > possible to have favorite bookmarks. > > \\Steve// > > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] > On > Behalf Of Lenny V. aka GoldLenny > Sent: Tuesday, November 10, 2009 11:57 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: wisteria/lighting previous > question/response > revisited > > Bookmarks and Favorites are filing systems... if you don't > know how/where > it's filed, you won't find it anyhow.  > > I have an extensive Favorites folder with dozens of primary > folders and then > dozens if not hundreds of sub-folders and sub-sub-folders, > for example, > under Favorites, I have 59 primary folders and one of them > is called > Aquarium Sites, then, in that folder, I have 44 > alphabetized sub-folders > just in that folder, from Additives and Algae to > Tutorials-Quizzes and UGF > Filters (no V,W,X,Y,Z sub-folders under Aquarium... not > sure why not).  Then > in the Algae folder, I have 7 sub-sub-folders dealing with > topics such as > Algae Eaters, Allelopathic Control, Diatoms-Brown Algae, > Hair Algae, > Hydrogen Peroxide, Pond Algae, SeaChem Flourish Excel For > Treating Algae and > then 11 other favorites about Algae in general, for a total > of 48 links, > just about Algae. > > My Favorites folder, when looking at its Properties, is > 1.41MB in size and > consists of 2,057 files (links) and 306 folders (incl. sub > and sub-sub > folders) in totality.  Many years of surfing and > saving and starting off > with an organizational plan from the start makes it easy > for me to navigate > and find things easily.  My Favorites is like a > mini-Google. ;-) > > I have been toying around with the idea of using a web > resource to keep my > Favorites folder online so I can sync it with all of my > computers and/or > just use it as an online Favorites folder that I can log > into from any > computer.  For now, I use LogMeIn (Free) to connect to > my main computer from > my laptop when I'm out in the streets playing... oops.. I > meant working. > > But I don't think I'd share my Favorites or then I'd have > to go in and edit > out all my favorite porn links... well, maybe not for Bill. > LOL > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to > any articles referenced > in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically > under Labels and > also under Archives by Year, Month) > > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] > On > Behalf Of Amber Berglund > Sent: Tuesday, November 10, 2009 10:25 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: wisteria/lighting previous > question/response > revisited > > No worries Bill, I do the same thing, maybe Lenny will be > so kind as to send > us all his bookmarks? LOL > > Amber > > bill 1433 wrote: > > > > Yes, Amber > > > > It was I, looking for the original information and > also looked back on > > \\Steve//'s post at group to try and find. Ray had > mentioned all this > > the other day saying that he thought the posting came > from \\Steve//. > > > > I was not successful in my search. Also, for me the > most important > > part was a link to a chart which showed you exactly, > or explained > > exactly the "T" factor stands for. For instance, T-4 > would be a tube > > that is a half inch wide, or close to it-----------I > think. All this > > is my own fault. In my interest to acquire and learn > about lighting,I > > went through and studied the applied links but being > ol'bill, I never > > bookmarked them. Then to further compound the problem, > I deleted the > > original message that it came from. In hind-sight you > could probably > > chalk this all up to felonious stupidity on my part. > > > > Bill---where its always a good day if I learn > something new! > > > > --- On Tue, 11/10/09, Amber Berglund <arberglund@... > > > <mailto:arberglund%40gmail.com>> wrote: > > > > From: Amber Berglund <arberglund@... > > > <mailto:arberglund%40gmail.com>> > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: wisteria/lighting > previous > > question/response revisited > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > Date: Tuesday, November 10, 2009, 9:30 PM > > > > I believe it was Steve who posted a link about lumens > months back when > > (I think it was maybe Bill asking) about lighting for > planted aquariums. > > Plants require 2 different spectrums of light to > properly produce > > either leaves or flowers (red is more for flower > production and blue > > is more for growth, but for the best growing you want > a mixture of BOTH > colors). > > So in reality you would want a light that appears more > brown/reddish > > in coloring and a blue/white coloring as well, but > they now have bulbs > > that have BOTH spectrums built in (I'm sure they don't > work as well as > > it would to have 2 different bulbs one mostly red and > the other mostly > > blue on the color spectrum). > > Let me see if I still have the link bookmarked. > > What I was trying to say is that Kelvin does not tell > you what color > > spectrum the light REALLY is, it's actually measuring > it's light > > output color according to how the human eyes perceive > it. So 6500 > > kelvin in general is what most plants will prefer > because that is a > > mixture of both red and blue spectrums (In MOST bulbs) > unfortunately > > not all light bulb manufactures have to use the exact > same chart for > > their colors, so they will have different colors than > another bulb > > that says it's 6500 Kelvin. what you really need to > read is the color > > chart on the box, not what lumens it says it is. > > (still searching for link, LOL). > > > > This isn't the right link but it discusses the > kelvin/lumen problems a > > little bit, still looking for the link that showed the > charts and what > > to look for in the color charts. > > http://www.americanaquariumproducts.com/Aquarium_Lighting.html > > <http://www.americanaquariumproducts.com/Aquarium_Lighting.html> > > > > Will post again when I find the other link with chart > examples. > > > > Amber > > > > Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > > > > > > I think it would be false advertising or possibly > mis-advertising > > (if they > > > do not know any better) if a company lists their > bulbs as 6500K and > > > they aren't. The Kelvin scale, just like Watts > and Lumens, are ALL > > > universal and scientifically measurable scales > BUT, as I showed > > > below, not all 40 watt bulbs put out the same > amount of light > > > (lumens) or in the same color spectrum (Kelvin > rating). All 40 watt > > > bulbs, whether incandescent, fluorescent, CFL, > LED, Halogen, etc.... > > > ALL use only/around 40 watts of electricity but > their light output > > > can vary dramatically. This is why fluorescent > bulbs are so much > > > more efficient than incandescent bulbs and CFL's > are even more > > > efficient... as a 40W fluorescent bulb puts out > > a LOT > > > more light (lumens) than a 40 watt incandescent > bulb and a 40W CFL > > > puts out more light (lumens) than a 40W > fluorescent bulb. This is > > > why the OLD "Watts Per Gallon" rule simply does > not work any more. > > > > > > BUT.. if three different companies are selling > standard T-10 > > > fluorescent bulbs with the same exact rating of > 40W, 3550 lumens and > > > 6500K rating... all three of those bulbs should > be VERY SIMILAR if > > > not identical in the way they appear to our eyes > (subject to our own > > > degree of color blindness, of > > > course!) > > > > > > In the past, things like "soft white", "warm > white", "daylight", > > > "plant grow", etc., type terms were used and are > still used but > > > those are just simple words (not subject to a > scientific scale) to > > > describe the Kelvin rating ranges but lumens are > just as important > > > since a bulb could have a 6500K rating with only > 2200 lumens where > > > another bulb could have a 6500K rating and 3550 > or 3700 lumens and > > > that bulb would put out over 50% more light > (lumens) in the same > > > color spectrum (Kelvin rating) so it > > would be a > > > much more cost effective bulb if it cost the same > amount or only a > > little > > > more. > > > > > > I'm slightly confused about the "red and blue > light for your plants" > > > as those two colors are on opposite ends of the > Kelvin Scale with > > > reds and ambers in the lower numbers and greens > and blues in the > > > higher > > numbers. I > > > think this is why you would want a mid-range > (5000K to 6500K) bulb > > > as those are generally considered "full spectrum" > or "daylight" > > > bulbs. Here's a color picture of the Kelvin > Scale, > > > http://www.bltdirect.com/images/colour-temperature.jpg > > <http://www.bltdirect.com/images/colour-temperature.jpg> > > > <http://www.bltdirect.com/images/colour-temperature.jpg > > <http://www.bltdirect.com/images/colour-temperature.jpg>> > and you can > > > visually > > > see that the 5000K to 6500K range is all about > the same "color". I > > > think this is also why Actinic bulbs are usually > higher and closer > > > to the > > 10000K > > > range and up... apparently, the Kelvin lighting > scale can go up to > > 20,000K > > > (according to this article about Reef Tanks > > > http://nh.craigslist.org/for/1423072406.html > > <http://nh.craigslist.org/for/1423072406.html> > > > <http://nh.craigslist.org/for/1423072406.html > > <http://nh.craigslist.org/for/1423072406.html>> > on, of all places, > > > Craigslist). > > > Here is the page that that the above photo link > came from and it has > > > a chart that also explains things a little more > also and talks about > > > the > > CRI, yet > > > another lighting term (Color Rendition Index). > > > http://www.bltdirect.com/lampColourTemperatures.php > > <http://www.bltdirect.com/lampColourTemperatures.php> > > > <http://www.bltdirect.com/lampColourTemperatures.php > > <http://www.bltdirect.com/lampColourTemperatures.php>> > > > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>> > > > (Links to any articles referenced in above reply > are listed on the > > > right side, alphabetically under Labels and also > under Archives by > > > Year, > > Month) > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On > Behalf Of Amber Berglund > > > Sent: Tuesday, November 10, 2009 4:22 PM > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: wisteria/lighting > previous > > > question/response revisited > > > > > > Another thing to consider is one light company's > 6500 kelvin rating > > > may not be identical to another light bulb from a > different company > > > that's rated the same. The important thing to > look at is the color > > > chart they show on the boxes, you want more red > and blue light for > > > your plants, green is not useful or harmful as > the plants reflect > > > the light back (makes them appear more green but > does nothing else > > > for them). The kelvin rating is based on our eyes > and how they > > > perceive color, so each company doesn't have to > be identical, > > > perhaps some day they will have a universal way > to measure light > > > spectrums on bulbs that is much less confusing. > > > > > > Amber > > > > > > Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > > > > > > > > OK. So you have a total of 80 watts right > now, which is just over > > > > 1 WPG, which means you only have enough > lighting for low-light, > > > > easy to grow plants. See my blog article > "Planted Tank: So You > > > > Want A Planted Tank" for links to lists of > low-light, easy to grow > > > > plants that will do OK in your tank. You > should replace those tubes at > least yearly... > > > > although some say every six months. As far > as I know, a 40W bulb > > > > is the highest wattage made for this type of > bulb/fixture right > > > > now but you can increase your lighting > > > > (lumens) and K (Kelvin) rating. See below. > > > > > > > > NOTE - below links are for > example/informational purposes only, as > > > > I know nothing about the sites. God... did I > just say that? Do I > > > > really have to add disclaimers to my posts > now? LOL Just laughing at > myself. > > > > LOL > > > > > > > > This may be your Sylvania bulb... > > > > http://www.lightbulbemporium.com/proddetail.asp?prod=F40/EX50 > > <http://www.lightbulbemporium.com/proddetail.asp?prod=F40/EX50> > > > <http://www.lightbulbemporium.com/proddetail.asp?prod=F40/EX50 > > <http://www.lightbulbemporium.com/proddetail.asp?prod=F40/EX50>> > > > > <http://www.lightbulbemporium.com/proddetail.asp?prod=F40/EX50 > > <http://www.lightbulbemporium.com/proddetail.asp?prod=F40/EX50> > > > <http://www.lightbulbemporium.com/proddetail.asp?prod=F40/EX50 > > <http://www.lightbulbemporium.com/proddetail.asp?prod=F40/EX50>>> > and > > if > > > > it is, then it's the same ratings as the > specs in the T-10 bulb > > > > that I copy/pasted below, which is a pretty > good bulb with higher > > > > lumens and the higher K rating, although not > a 6500K rated bulb. > > > > At the bottom of this page, there was a link > to this bulb... > > > > > > > > > http://www.lightbulbemporium.com/maxlite_51204_ml_f40t10_850_rscg.asp > > <http://www.lightbulbemporium.com/maxlite_51204_ml_f40t10_850_rscg.asp > > > > > > > > <http://www.lightbulbemporium.com/maxlite_51204_ml_f40t10_850_rscg.asp > > <http://www.lightbulbemporium.com/maxlite_51204_ml_f40t10_850_rscg.asp > > >> > > > > > > > > > <http://www.lightbulbemporium.com/maxlite_51204_ml_f40t10_850_rscg.asp > > <http://www.lightbulbemporium.com/maxlite_51204_ml_f40t10_850_rscg.asp > > > > > > > > <http://www.lightbulbemporium.com/maxlite_51204_ml_f40t10_850_rscg.asp > > <http://www.lightbulbemporium.com/maxlite_51204_ml_f40t10_850_rscg.asp > > >> > > > > > > > > > which > > > > has an even higher lumen rating of 3700, > although not much higher > > > > than the 3550 rating but every little bit > helps especially since > > > > the MaxLite bulb was a lower price than the > Sylvania bulb. > > > > > > > > As you will see on this page > > > > > > > > > http://www.lightbulbsdirect.com/Merchant2/merchant.mvc?page=001/CTGY/F > > <http://www.lightbulbsdirect.com/Merchant2/merchant.mvc?page=001/CTGY/ > > F> > > > > > <http://www.lightbulbsdirect.com/Merchant2/merchant.mvc?page=001/CTGY/ > > F > > <http://www.lightbulbsdirect.com/Merchant2/merchant.mvc?page=001/CTGY/ > > F>> > > > > S+Fluo > > > > > > > > > <http://www.lightbulbsdirect.com/Merchant2/merchant.mvc?page=001/CTGY/ > > <http://www.lightbulbsdirect.com/Merchant2/merchant.mvc?page=001/CTGY/ > > > > > > > > <http://www.lightbulbsdirect.com/Merchant2/merchant.mvc?page=001/CTGY/ > > <http://www.lightbulbsdirect.com/Merchant2/merchant.mvc?page=001/CTGY/ > > >> > > > > FS+Fluo> > > > > rescent > > > > > > > > The second bulb down would be similar to > yours, except we do not > > > > know the lumen or color spectrum rating on > your bulb, unless that > > > > link I gave above is actually your bulb and > then it would be the > > > > same as this one. The specs on it are: > > > > > > > > T-10 Fluorescent > > > > 40 Watts > > > > Length: 48" > > > > Medium Bi-Pin Base > > > > Color: 5000K Temperature > > > > Initial Lumens: 3550 > > > > CRI: 84 > > > > Average Life: 20,000 Hours > > > > > > > > The Color spectrum of 5000K (Kelvin) is OK > but 6500K would be much > > > better. > > > > The Lumens of 3550 is the actual amount of > *light* > > > > > > > > The next bulb down from that one is a T-12, > which will also fit in > > > > your fixture but they are bigger diameter > bulbs and this one > > > > actually puts out less light (lumens). Here > are the specs: > > > > > > > > T-12 Fluorescent > > > > 40 Watts > > > > Length: 48" > > > > Base: Medium Bi-Pin Base > > > > Initial Lumens: 2200 > > > > Average Life: 20,000 Hours > > > > Color Temperature: 5000K > > > > CRI: 92 > > > > > > > > It has the same Color spectrum but only 2200 > lumens so the above > > > > T-10 bulb has around 50% more lumens (light) > coming out of it. > > > > > > > > Now, if you scroll down to the second from > the bottom on the page, > > > > you'll see the Verilux Instant-Sun T-12 bulb > which has a higher > > > > Kelvin rating but it doesn't list the lumens > so this needs to be > > > > checked out further. While the higher K > rating is good, if it goes > > > > back down to only 2200 lumens, instead of > the 3550 lumens of the > > > > first referenced bulb above, then I would > probably go with the > > > > 3550 lumens, 5000K bulb over the 6280K bulb > if the lumens were a LOT > less. > > > > > > > > (START SNIP) > > > > Engineered to reproduce all the colors and > balance of natural > > > > light, VeriluxR full spectrum fluorescent > tubes feature Trucolite > > > > Phosphor TechnologyT which includes the use > of a stable, custom > > > > blend of earth phosphors that create bright, > balanced full spectrum > light. > > > > T-12 Fluorescent > > > > 40 Watts > > > > Length: 48" > > > > Color Temperature: 6280K > > > > CRI: 94 > > > > Medium Bi-Pin Base > > > > (END SNIP) > > > > > > > > So, as you can see, there's a few things to > look for when shopping > > > > for new replacement bulbs. Look for the > 5000K to 6500K bulbs with > > > > the higher lumen rating for the dollar and > you should be good. > > > > Note that a 3550 or 3700 lumen bulb will put > out nearly twice as > > > > much light as a 2000 lumen bulb so it can be > easy to increase your > > > > lighting without increasing the wattage. DO > NOT try to use HO or > > > > VHO bulbs... which look similar but have > much higher wattage, well > > > > over the 40W bulbs you now have. These other > HO and VHO bulbs have > > > > different pin arrangements so they will not > fit in your fixture > > > > anyhow but I just wanted to save you a > trip. > > > > > > > > Last but not least, if you're handy, you > could even take the bulbs > > > > out of your fixtures and line the insides of > your fixtures with > > > > nice and crisp and flat aluminum foil (shiny > side exposed) which > > > > will also help. Using double stick tape and > then carefully > > > > applying the foil so it does not wrinkle too > much will work > > > > well... especially if the inside of your > fixture is black. A white > > > > reflector is good but a mirrored reflector, > like that created by > > > > the shiny side of foil, is MUCH better than > a black reflector. > > > > Most black fixtures do at least have white > reflector areas. > > > > > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>> > > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>>> > > > (Links to any articles referenced in > > > > above reply are listed on the right side, > alphabetically under > > > > Labels and also under Archives by Year, > Month) > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On Behalf Of > > > > erikaandnewton > > > > Sent: Tuesday, November 10, 2009 10:17 AM > > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: wisteria/lighting > previous > > > > question/response revisited > > > > > > > > << When you say "two strips" do you > have two 4' long two-bulb > > > > fixtures already or something else?>> > > > > > > > > i have two 4' single bulb strip lights. > > > > > > > > >> What kind of lighting do you > currently have? Look at the bulbs > > > > >> and there should be some kind of > writing on one of the ends. > > > > >> Give us that info if you cannot > decipher it yourself.<< > > > > > > > > one bulb is a f40 t10 > > > > the other one is a sylvania daylight bulb > also f40 > > > > > > > > >> It's probably 21" tall, since a > common measurement for a 75G is > > > > >> 48"x18"x21" Tall.>> > > > > > > > > it is 21 inches tall > > > > > > > > erika wilmington de usa > > > > > ------------------------------------ > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when > replying, Thank You. > ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> > ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> > PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is > NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of > the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new > subject (was re: old subject)" <- > <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. > , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. > > If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of > unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by > clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the home page.  > > Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com > to receive the digest, which includes up to 25 posts at a > time in a single email > > Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com > for the No E-Mail option where you will still be able to > read messages on the group and post replies. > > Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com > to receive individual e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links > > >     AquaticLife-fullfeatured@yahoogroups.com > > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 44412	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 11/11/2009
Subject: Re: wisteria/lighting previous question/response revisited

But you didn't make it all the way back to lighting. LOL FLASH!!! There.... it's back to lighting now. And that "FLASH!!!" was a camera flash, or the flicker when you first turn on fluorescent lighting, not me wearing an overcoat, as I only do that kind of flashing on Mardi Gras down in the French Quarter. LOL Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Steve Szabo Sent: Wednesday, November 11, 2009 5:43 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: wisteria/lighting previous question/response revisited Lenny, I don't need no steenkin' hack. In Firefox, the bookmarks are kept as they should be, as one file, not each bookmark in a separate file gobbling up disk space as IE does. It also eats up space in the MFT (Master File Table). For those who do not know about such things, when a drive is formatted to hold data, it is broken up into groups of sectors, known as clusters, the value of which defaults, in Windows, to 4K (4096 bytes). They can be any value from 512 bytes to at least 32K (it may be even larger now, with NTFS (new technology file system, but 32K was the limit under 16 bit DOS). When a file is written to disk, using 4K cluster size for the example, it takes up as many clusters as needed. So, a file that is 32K in size would use 8 clusters (4K x 8). A file that is 28K would use 7 clusters (28 k/4K=7). However, a file that is 29K would use 8 clusters. It would fill the 7 clusters, with an extra 1024 bytes, which are placed in the next, or 8th cluster, leaving 3K of that cluster as being unavailable to another file. Consider now, that each bookmark is generally less than 1K (1024 bytes). When you are using IE (Internet Explorer), that means that you are wasting 3K of each available cluster to store the bookmark as a file. Let us assume you have 400 bookmarks. I am sure you can do the math. That would mean that you have 400 files, each taking up 4K of disk space, meaning that you are using 1600K to store those files. This means that 400 entries are placed in the MFT. In the case of Firefox, and other browsers not based on IE, all the bookmarks are stored in a file. Say that you have the same 400 bookmarks, using 1K as the size of each bookmark, on average, that would mean that you have a file that is 400K in size, which (conveniently, it seems) works out to a 100K file, stored in 25 clusters and 1 entry in the MFT. A great savings in disk space. There are other issues to consider here as well, but I am sure you are plenty bored by know. However, (oh no!, he's going to say more even though he said he was done) please keep in mind that drive manufacturers use a decimal system to calculate drive sizes, so that 250GB drive you have in your box is not 250GB to the computer, which uses a binary system to calculate drive size. That is why, when you look at the drive size through your operating system, the drive appears to be smaller than advertised. It's kind of like that 55 gallon tank that actually holds less than 55 gallons. Tank measurements are measuring the outside dimensions of the tank not the inside dimensions, plus, none of use fills a tank right to the top of the tank, giving us an actual capacity of somewhat less than 55 gallons, and that is before we add substrate and decorations, fish, and plants to the tank, each displacing a certain amount of water. (You may insert your own Archimedes joke here.) (Notice how I actually brought this back onto an aquarium topic?) \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Lenny V. aka GoldLenny Sent: Wednesday, November 11, 2009 1:30 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: wisteria/lighting previous question/response revisited Yeah... I keep kind of hoping that Google will eventually provide an online "Bookmarks/Favorites" service or homepage add-in, which would also include a search feature and maybe even a way to scan for bad links in the Bookmarks/Favorites instead of finding out when you go to use that long kept bookmark/favorite and the site no longer exists... of course, there's always the Wayback Machine at the Internet Archive http://www.archive.org to find websites/pages that have disappeared from the net. I regularly go into my IE Favorites and use the "Organize Favorites" feature to move things around but also will use Windows Explorer, C:\Documents and Settings\Owner\Favorites\, to look at my Favorites folder and drag and drop, move and rename things around in there. Then, there is this Registry hack to mass sort the Favorites folder, sub-folders and files, instead of having to "Sort By Name" inside each folder. From http://www.theeldergeek.com/sort_favorites_menu_alphabetical.htm (with some added instructions by me to clarify some things). Sort Favorites Menu Alphabetically [Start] [Run] [Regedit] Registry Key: HKEY_CURRENT_USER\Software\Microsoft\Windows\CurrentVersion\Explorer\MenuOrd er\Favorites (Click on Favorites to highlight, then in the view panel) Right click the Favorites key *Order* and click Delete Exit registry and reboot. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Steve Szabo Sent: Tuesday, November 10, 2009 11:43 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: wisteria/lighting previous question/response revisited Lenny, I have a couple of problems. First, I do have a lot of folders and sub folders for things, and try to use them. However, I can also be pressed for time, and just bookmark it, thinking I'll fix it later. Somehow, later comes even later than one would expect, and when it does arrive, I do a bunch, but never finish going through the list. The other problem is that what made sense at the time, may not make sense when I am looking for the bookmark, possible because I a thinking about the topic in a different way than when I bookmarked the site. It is kind of like how one searches the web. If your first key words do not provide what you are looking for, you modify those terms and search again. Same topic, a bit different way of looking at it. Eventually, you will get what you want. What I probably need is a bookmark search engine. For those of you who were born and weaned with Windows, bookmarks is the correct term, not Microsoft's Favorites, though, I must admit, it is possible to have favorite bookmarks. \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Lenny V. aka GoldLenny Sent: Tuesday, November 10, 2009 11:57 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: wisteria/lighting previous question/response revisited Bookmarks and Favorites are filing systems... if you don't know how/where it's filed, you won't find it anyhow. I have an extensive Favorites folder with dozens of primary folders and then dozens if not hundreds of sub-folders and sub-sub-folders, for example, under Favorites, I have 59 primary folders and one of them is called Aquarium Sites, then, in that folder, I have 44 alphabetized sub-folders just in that folder, from Additives and Algae to Tutorials-Quizzes and UGF Filters (no V,W,X,Y,Z sub-folders under Aquarium... not sure why not). Then in the Algae folder, I have 7 sub-sub-folders dealing with topics such as Algae Eaters, Allelopathic Control, Diatoms-Brown Algae, Hair Algae, Hydrogen Peroxide, Pond Algae, SeaChem Flourish Excel For Treating Algae and then 11 other favorites about Algae in general, for a total of 48 links, just about Algae. My Favorites folder, when looking at its Properties, is 1.41MB in size and consists of 2,057 files (links) and 306 folders (incl. sub and sub-sub folders) in totality. Many years of surfing and saving and starting off with an organizational plan from the start makes it easy for me to navigate and find things easily. My Favorites is like a mini-Google. ;-) I have been toying around with the idea of using a web resource to keep my Favorites folder online so I can sync it with all of my computers and/or just use it as an online Favorites folder that I can log into from any computer. For now, I use LogMeIn (Free) to connect to my main computer from my laptop when I'm out in the streets playing... oops.. I meant working. But I don't think I'd share my Favorites or then I'd have to go in and edit out all my favorite porn links... well, maybe not for Bill. LOL Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Amber Berglund Sent: Tuesday, November 10, 2009 10:25 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: wisteria/lighting previous question/response revisited No worries Bill, I do the same thing, maybe Lenny will be so kind as to send us all his bookmarks? LOL Amber bill 1433 wrote: > > Yes, Amber > > It was I, looking for the original information and also looked back on > \\Steve//'s post at group to try and find. Ray had mentioned all this > the other day saying that he thought the posting came from \\Steve//. > > I was not successful in my search. Also, for me the most important > part was a link to a chart which showed you exactly, or explained > exactly the "T" factor stands for. For instance, T-4 would be a tube > that is a half inch wide, or close to it-----------I think. All this > is my own fault. In my interest to acquire and learn about lighting,I > went through and studied the applied links but being ol'bill, I never > bookmarked them. Then to further compound the problem, I deleted the > original message that it came from. In hind-sight you could probably > chalk this all up to felonious stupidity on my part. > > Bill---where its always a good day if I learn something new! > > --- On Tue, 11/10/09, Amber Berglund <arberglund@... > <mailto:arberglund%40gmail.com>> wrote: > > From: Amber Berglund <arberglund@... > <mailto:arberglund%40gmail.com>> > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: wisteria/lighting previous > question/response revisited > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Date: Tuesday, November 10, 2009, 9:30 PM > > I believe it was Steve who posted a link about lumens months back when > (I think it was maybe Bill asking) about lighting for planted aquariums. > Plants require 2 different spectrums of light to properly produce > either leaves or flowers (red is more for flower production and blue > is more for growth, but for the best growing you want a mixture of BOTH colors). > So in reality you would want a light that appears more brown/reddish > in coloring and a blue/white coloring as well, but they now have bulbs > that have BOTH spectrums built in (I'm sure they don't work as well as > it would to have 2 different bulbs one mostly red and the other mostly > blue on the color spectrum). > Let me see if I still have the link bookmarked. > What I was trying to say is that Kelvin does not tell you what color > spectrum the light REALLY is, it's actually measuring it's light > output color according to how the human eyes perceive it. So 6500 > kelvin in general is what most plants will prefer because that is a > mixture of both red and blue spectrums (In MOST bulbs) unfortunately > not all light bulb manufactures have to use the exact same chart for > their colors, so they will have different colors than another bulb > that says it's 6500 Kelvin. what you really need to read is the color > chart on the box, not what lumens it says it is. > (still searching for link, LOL). > > This isn't the right link but it discusses the kelvin/lumen problems a > little bit, still looking for the link that showed the charts and what > to look for in the color charts. > http://www.americanaquariumproducts.com/Aquarium_Lighting.html > <http://www.americanaquariumproducts.com/Aquarium_Lighting.html> > > Will post again when I find the other link with chart examples. > > Amber > > Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > > > > I think it would be false advertising or possibly mis-advertising > (if they > > do not know any better) if a company lists their bulbs as 6500K and > > they aren't. The Kelvin scale, just like Watts and Lumens, are ALL > > universal and scientifically measurable scales BUT, as I showed > > below, not all 40 watt bulbs put out the same amount of light > > (lumens) or in the same color spectrum (Kelvin rating). All 40 watt > > bulbs, whether incandescent, fluorescent, CFL, LED, Halogen, etc.... > > ALL use only/around 40 watts of electricity but their light output > > can vary dramatically. This is why fluorescent bulbs are so much > > more efficient than incandescent bulbs and CFL's are even more > > efficient... as a 40W fluorescent bulb puts out > a LOT > > more light (lumens) than a 40 watt incandescent bulb and a 40W CFL > > puts out more light (lumens) than a 40W fluorescent bulb. This is > > why the OLD "Watts Per Gallon" rule simply does not work any more. > > > > BUT.. if three different companies are selling standard T-10 > > fluorescent bulbs with the same exact rating of 40W, 3550 lumens and > > 6500K rating... all three of those bulbs should be VERY SIMILAR if > > not identical in the way they appear to our eyes (subject to our own > > degree of color blindness, of > > course!) > > > > In the past, things like "soft white", "warm white", "daylight", > > "plant grow", etc., type terms were used and are still used but > > those are just simple words (not subject to a scientific scale) to > > describe the Kelvin rating ranges but lumens are just as important > > since a bulb could have a 6500K rating with only 2200 lumens where > > another bulb could have a 6500K rating and 3550 or 3700 lumens and > > that bulb would put out over 50% more light (lumens) in the same > > color spectrum (Kelvin rating) so it > would be a > > much more cost effective bulb if it cost the same amount or only a > little > > more. > > > > I'm slightly confused about the "red and blue light for your plants" > > as those two colors are on opposite ends of the Kelvin Scale with > > reds and ambers in the lower numbers and greens and blues in the > > higher > numbers. I > > think this is why you would want a mid-range (5000K to 6500K) bulb > > as those are generally considered "full spectrum" or "daylight" > > bulbs. Here's a color picture of the Kelvin Scale, > > http://www.bltdirect.com/images/colour-temperature.jpg > <http://www.bltdirect.com/images/colour-temperature.jpg> > > <http://www.bltdirect.com/images/colour-temperature.jpg > <http://www.bltdirect.com/images/colour-temperature.jpg>> and you can > > visually > > see that the 5000K to 6500K range is all about the same "color". I > > think this is also why Actinic bulbs are usually higher and closer > > to the > 10000K > > range and up... apparently, the Kelvin lighting scale can go up to > 20,000K > > (according to this article about Reef Tanks > > http://nh.craigslist.org/for/1423072406.html > <http://nh.craigslist.org/for/1423072406.html> > > <http://nh.craigslist.org/for/1423072406.html > <http://nh.craigslist.org/for/1423072406.html>> on, of all places, > > Craigslist). > > Here is the page that that the above photo link came from and it has > > a chart that also explains things a little more also and talks about > > the > CRI, yet > > another lighting term (Color Rendition Index). > > http://www.bltdirect.com/lampColourTemperatures.php > <http://www.bltdirect.com/lampColourTemperatures.php> > > <http://www.bltdirect.com/lampColourTemperatures.php > <http://www.bltdirect.com/lampColourTemperatures.php>> > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>> > > (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the > > right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by > > Year, > Month) > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On Behalf Of Amber Berglund > > Sent: Tuesday, November 10, 2009 4:22 PM > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: wisteria/lighting previous > > question/response revisited > > > > Another thing to consider is one light company's 6500 kelvin rating > > may not be identical to another light bulb from a different company > > that's rated the same. The important thing to look at is the color > > chart they show on the boxes, you want more red and blue light for > > your plants, green is not useful or harmful as the plants reflect > > the light back (makes them appear more green but does nothing else > > for them). The kelvin rating is based on our eyes and how they > > perceive color, so each company doesn't have to be identical, > > perhaps some day they will have a universal way to measure light > > spectrums on bulbs that is much less confusing. > > > > Amber > > > > Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > > > > > > OK. So you have a total of 80 watts right now, which is just over > > > 1 WPG, which means you only have enough lighting for low-light, > > > easy to grow plants. See my blog article "Planted Tank: So You > > > Want A Planted Tank" for links to lists of low-light, easy to grow > > > plants that will do OK in your tank. You should replace those tubes at least yearly... > > > although some say every six months. As far as I know, a 40W bulb > > > is the highest wattage made for this type of bulb/fixture right > > > now but you can increase your lighting > > > (lumens) and K (Kelvin) rating. See below. > > > > > > NOTE - below links are for example/informational purposes only, as > > > I know nothing about the sites. God... did I just say that? Do I > > > really have to add disclaimers to my posts now? LOL Just laughing at myself. > > > LOL > > > > > > This may be your Sylvania bulb... > > > http://www.lightbulbemporium.com/proddetail.asp?prod=F40/EX50 > <http://www.lightbulbemporium.com/proddetail.asp?prod=F40/EX50> > > <http://www.lightbulbemporium.com/proddetail.asp?prod=F40/EX50 > <http://www.lightbulbemporium.com/proddetail.asp?prod=F40/EX50>> > > > <http://www.lightbulbemporium.com/proddetail.asp?prod=F40/EX50 > <http://www.lightbulbemporium.com/proddetail.asp?prod=F40/EX50> > > <http://www.lightbulbemporium.com/proddetail.asp?prod=F40/EX50 > <http://www.lightbulbemporium.com/proddetail.asp?prod=F40/EX50>>> and > if > > > it is, then it's the same ratings as the specs in the T-10 bulb > > > that I copy/pasted below, which is a pretty good bulb with higher > > > lumens and the higher K rating, although not a 6500K rated bulb. > > > At the bottom of this page, there was a link to this bulb... > > > > > > http://www.lightbulbemporium.com/maxlite_51204_ml_f40t10_850_rscg.asp > <http://www.lightbulbemporium.com/maxlite_51204_ml_f40t10_850_rscg.asp > > > > > <http://www.lightbulbemporium.com/maxlite_51204_ml_f40t10_850_rscg.asp > <http://www.lightbulbemporium.com/maxlite_51204_ml_f40t10_850_rscg.asp > >> > > > > > > <http://www.lightbulbemporium.com/maxlite_51204_ml_f40t10_850_rscg.asp > <http://www.lightbulbemporium.com/maxlite_51204_ml_f40t10_850_rscg.asp > > > > > <http://www.lightbulbemporium.com/maxlite_51204_ml_f40t10_850_rscg.asp > <http://www.lightbulbemporium.com/maxlite_51204_ml_f40t10_850_rscg.asp > >> > > > > > > > which > > > has an even higher lumen rating of 3700, although not much higher > > > than the 3550 rating but every little bit helps especially since > > > the MaxLite bulb was a lower price than the Sylvania bulb. > > > > > > As you will see on this page > > > > > > http://www.lightbulbsdirect.com/Merchant2/merchant.mvc?page=001/CTGY/F > <http://www.lightbulbsdirect.com/Merchant2/merchant.mvc?page=001/CTGY/ > F> > > > <http://www.lightbulbsdirect.com/Merchant2/merchant.mvc?page=001/CTGY/ > F > <http://www.lightbulbsdirect.com/Merchant2/merchant.mvc?page=001/CTGY/ > F>> > > > S+Fluo > > > > > > <http://www.lightbulbsdirect.com/Merchant2/merchant.mvc?page=001/CTGY/ > <http://www.lightbulbsdirect.com/Merchant2/merchant.mvc?page=001/CTGY/ > > > > > <http://www.lightbulbsdirect.com/Merchant2/merchant.mvc?page=001/CTGY/ > <http://www.lightbulbsdirect.com/Merchant2/merchant.mvc?page=001/CTGY/ > >> > > > FS+Fluo> > > > rescent > > > > > > The second bulb down would be similar to yours, except we do not > > > know the lumen or color spectrum rating on your bulb, unless that > > > link I gave above is actually your bulb and then it would be the > > > same as this one. The specs on it are: > > > > > > T-10 Fluorescent > > > 40 Watts > > > Length: 48" > > > Medium Bi-Pin Base > > > Color: 5000K Temperature > > > Initial Lumens: 3550 > > > CRI: 84 > > > Average Life: 20,000 Hours > > > > > > The Color spectrum of 5000K (Kelvin) is OK but 6500K would be much > > better. > > > The Lumens of 3550 is the actual amount of *light* > > > > > > The next bulb down from that one is a T-12, which will also fit in > > > your fixture but they are bigger diameter bulbs and this one > > > actually puts out less light (lumens). Here are the specs: > > > > > > T-12 Fluorescent > > > 40 Watts > > > Length: 48" > > > Base: Medium Bi-Pin Base > > > Initial Lumens: 2200 > > > Average Life: 20,000 Hours > > > Color Temperature: 5000K > > > CRI: 92 > > > > > > It has the same Color spectrum but only 2200 lumens so the above > > > T-10 bulb has around 50% more lumens (light) coming out of it. > > > > > > Now, if you scroll down to the second from the bottom on the page, > > > you'll see the Verilux Instant-Sun T-12 bulb which has a higher > > > Kelvin rating but it doesn't list the lumens so this needs to be > > > checked out further. While the higher K rating is good, if it goes > > > back down to only 2200 lumens, instead of the 3550 lumens of the > > > first referenced bulb above, then I would probably go with the > > > 3550 lumens, 5000K bulb over the 6280K bulb if the lumens were a LOT less. > > > > > > (START SNIP) > > > Engineered to reproduce all the colors and balance of natural > > > light, VeriluxR full spectrum fluorescent tubes feature Trucolite > > > Phosphor TechnologyT which includes the use of a stable, custom > > > blend of earth phosphors that create bright, balanced full spectrum light. > > > T-12 Fluorescent > > > 40 Watts > > > Length: 48" > > > Color Temperature: 6280K > > > CRI: 94 > > > Medium Bi-Pin Base > > > (END SNIP) > > > > > > So, as you can see, there's a few things to look for when shopping > > > for new replacement bulbs. Look for the 5000K to 6500K bulbs with > > > the higher lumen rating for the dollar and you should be good. > > > Note that a 3550 or 3700 lumen bulb will put out nearly twice as > > > much light as a 2000 lumen bulb so it can be easy to increase your > > > lighting without increasing the wattage. DO NOT try to use HO or > > > VHO bulbs... which look similar but have much higher wattage, well > > > over the 40W bulbs you now have. These other HO and VHO bulbs have > > > different pin arrangements so they will not fit in your fixture > > > anyhow but I just wanted to save you a trip. > > > > > > Last but not least, if you're handy, you could even take the bulbs > > > out of your fixtures and line the insides of your fixtures with > > > nice and crisp and flat aluminum foil (shiny side exposed) which > > > will also help. Using double stick tape and then carefully > > > applying the foil so it does not wrinkle too much will work > > > well... especially if the inside of your fixture is black. A white > > > reflector is good but a mirrored reflector, like that created by > > > the shiny side of foil, is MUCH better than a black reflector. > > > Most black fixtures do at least have white reflector areas. > > > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>> > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>>> > > (Links to any articles referenced in > > > above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under > > > Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On Behalf Of > > > erikaandnewton > > > Sent: Tuesday, November 10, 2009 10:17 AM > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: wisteria/lighting previous > > > question/response revisited > > > > > > << When you say "two strips" do you have two 4' long two-bulb > > > fixtures already or something else?>> > > > > > > i have two 4' single bulb strip lights. > > > > > > >> What kind of lighting do you currently have? Look at the bulbs > > > >> and there should be some kind of writing on one of the ends. > > > >> Give us that info if you cannot decipher it yourself.<< > > > > > > one bulb is a f40 t10 > > > the other one is a sylvania daylight bulb also f40 > > > > > > >> It's probably 21" tall, since a common measurement for a 75G is > > > >> 48"x18"x21" Tall.>> > > > > > > it is 21 inches tall > > > > > > erika wilmington de usa

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 44413	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 11/11/2009
Subject: Re: wisteria/lighting previous question/response revisited

I'm looking at the XMarks.com page now. Does that store a copy online and/or sync the computers online or does it just sync the browsers kept on computers that can be copied to locally? Oops.. never mind, I'm reading their FAQ's now and see that it does keep a copy online. I'm sure I've looked at this before but I was kind of hoping one of the big boys would provide this service. How secure do you think XMarks is? Do you keep all of your favorites online with them... such as Banks and Financial favorites? I'm presuming it's all sync'ed via an HTTPS server? Do they allow you to choose an encryption code yourself? I do not see that addressed in their FAQ's. Remarkably (or not), I feel more secure with storing info online with the big boys (especially a publicly traded company) than with a smaller privately held company. At least the big boys have to worry about their stock prices when they have screw ups so they *should* work harder to prevent screw ups... yeah, I know, some may say this theory does not work concerning MS but I'm NOT one of those people. Considering the numbers of configurations of the billions of computers, their various attackers/hackers and ultimately, the PICNIC's that MS has to deal with, I'm surprised their software and OS works at all. Considering all of these factors, they do a remarkable job, IMO. I'd put my faith in Bill Gates over my guv'ment ANY DAY!!! That said, I do use Google's Medical Online services to keep my medical records online, instead of MS's service. I sure hope Google's attempt at a browser based OS doesn't compromise Google's security. As far as FireFox, which you mentioned in a previous post, I haven't finished my review and write up yet (so it's not on my other blog) but I finally broke down and tried it and it's OK but not all that some folks claim it to be... and now that Mozilla and MS have admitted that add-on's can cause major security issues, with all of the add-on's that are available for FF, I'm sure that makes whatever perceived security go down the toilet once the basic browser is customized with add-on's by the user, who may not realize how add-on's affect the browsers security. On two different computers (XP-Home and Vista Home Premium), FireFox uses MUCH more Memory Usage (according to Task Manager) than IE8... AND.... when minimized, IE8's Memory Usage drops down dramatically where FF's stays the same whether minimized or not. I know this isn't an issue with newer computers with lots of RAM but for computers that are a few years old (less than 1GB of RAM), anything that saves/conserves RAM makes computing a lot more pleasant. I can't even use FF on my slowest computer, the one that I let my elderly neighbor use, as that computer only has 384MB of RAM and doesn't have much RAM left over once OL2003 and IE8 are running (along with all of the other background processes). Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Steve Szabo Sent: Wednesday, November 11, 2009 5:46 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: wisteria/lighting previous question/response revisited Lenny, Take a look at Xmarks that will keep a master copy of your bookmarks and sync them between the major browsers. Something like http://www.xmarks.org off the top of my head, not bookmarked <g>. I use it for synching several computers I use on a regular basis. \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Lenny V. aka GoldLenny Sent: Wednesday, November 11, 2009 1:30 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: wisteria/lighting previous question/response revisited Yeah... I keep kind of hoping that Google will eventually provide an online "Bookmarks/Favorites" service or homepage add-in, which would also include a search feature and maybe even a way to scan for bad links in the Bookmarks/Favorites instead of finding out when you go to use that long kept bookmark/favorite and the site no longer exists... of course, there's always the Wayback Machine at the Internet Archive http://www.archive.org to find websites/pages that have disappeared from the net. I regularly go into my IE Favorites and use the "Organize Favorites" feature to move things around but also will use Windows Explorer, C:\Documents and Settings\Owner\Favorites\, to look at my Favorites folder and drag and drop, move and rename things around in there. Then, there is this Registry hack to mass sort the Favorites folder, sub-folders and files, instead of having to "Sort By Name" inside each folder. From http://www.theeldergeek.com/sort_favorites_menu_alphabetical.htm (with some added instructions by me to clarify some things). Sort Favorites Menu Alphabetically [Start] [Run] [Regedit] Registry Key: HKEY_CURRENT_USER\Software\Microsoft\Windows\CurrentVersion\Explorer\MenuOrd er\Favorites (Click on Favorites to highlight, then in the view panel) Right click the Favorites key *Order* and click Delete Exit registry and reboot. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Steve Szabo Sent: Tuesday, November 10, 2009 11:43 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: wisteria/lighting previous question/response revisited Lenny, I have a couple of problems. First, I do have a lot of folders and sub folders for things, and try to use them. However, I can also be pressed for time, and just bookmark it, thinking I'll fix it later. Somehow, later comes even later than one would expect, and when it does arrive, I do a bunch, but never finish going through the list. The other problem is that what made sense at the time, may not make sense when I am looking for the bookmark, possible because I a thinking about the topic in a different way than when I bookmarked the site. It is kind of like how one searches the web. If your first key words do not provide what you are looking for, you modify those terms and search again. Same topic, a bit different way of looking at it. Eventually, you will get what you want. What I probably need is a bookmark search engine. For those of you who were born and weaned with Windows, bookmarks is the correct term, not Microsoft's Favorites, though, I must admit, it is possible to have favorite bookmarks. \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Lenny V. aka GoldLenny Sent: Tuesday, November 10, 2009 11:57 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: wisteria/lighting previous question/response revisited Bookmarks and Favorites are filing systems... if you don't know how/where it's filed, you won't find it anyhow. I have an extensive Favorites folder with dozens of primary folders and then dozens if not hundreds of sub-folders and sub-sub-folders, for example, under Favorites, I have 59 primary folders and one of them is called Aquarium Sites, then, in that folder, I have 44 alphabetized sub-folders just in that folder, from Additives and Algae to Tutorials-Quizzes and UGF Filters (no V,W,X,Y,Z sub-folders under Aquarium... not sure why not). Then in the Algae folder, I have 7 sub-sub-folders dealing with topics such as Algae Eaters, Allelopathic Control, Diatoms-Brown Algae, Hair Algae, Hydrogen Peroxide, Pond Algae, SeaChem Flourish Excel For Treating Algae and then 11 other favorites about Algae in general, for a total of 48 links, just about Algae. My Favorites folder, when looking at its Properties, is 1.41MB in size and consists of 2,057 files (links) and 306 folders (incl. sub and sub-sub folders) in totality. Many years of surfing and saving and starting off with an organizational plan from the start makes it easy for me to navigate and find things easily. My Favorites is like a mini-Google. ;-) I have been toying around with the idea of using a web resource to keep my Favorites folder online so I can sync it with all of my computers and/or just use it as an online Favorites folder that I can log into from any computer. For now, I use LogMeIn (Free) to connect to my main computer from my laptop when I'm out in the streets playing... oops.. I meant working. But I don't think I'd share my Favorites or then I'd have to go in and edit out all my favorite porn links... well, maybe not for Bill. LOL Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Amber Berglund Sent: Tuesday, November 10, 2009 10:25 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: wisteria/lighting previous question/response revisited No worries Bill, I do the same thing, maybe Lenny will be so kind as to send us all his bookmarks? LOL Amber bill 1433 wrote: > > Yes, Amber > > It was I, looking for the original information and also looked back on > \\Steve//'s post at group to try and find. Ray had mentioned all this > the other day saying that he thought the posting came from \\Steve//. > > I was not successful in my search. Also, for me the most important > part was a link to a chart which showed you exactly, or explained > exactly the "T" factor stands for. For instance, T-4 would be a tube > that is a half inch wide, or close to it-----------I think. All this > is my own fault. In my interest to acquire and learn about lighting,I > went through and studied the applied links but being ol'bill, I never > bookmarked them. Then to further compound the problem, I deleted the > original message that it came from. In hind-sight you could probably > chalk this all up to felonious stupidity on my part. > > Bill---where its always a good day if I learn something new! > > --- On Tue, 11/10/09, Amber Berglund <arberglund@... > <mailto:arberglund%40gmail.com>> wrote: > > From: Amber Berglund <arberglund@... > <mailto:arberglund%40gmail.com>> > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: wisteria/lighting previous > question/response revisited > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Date: Tuesday, November 10, 2009, 9:30 PM > > I believe it was Steve who posted a link about lumens months back when > (I think it was maybe Bill asking) about lighting for planted aquariums. > Plants require 2 different spectrums of light to properly produce > either leaves or flowers (red is more for flower production and blue > is more for growth, but for the best growing you want a mixture of BOTH colors). > So in reality you would want a light that appears more brown/reddish > in coloring and a blue/white coloring as well, but they now have bulbs > that have BOTH spectrums built in (I'm sure they don't work as well as > it would to have 2 different bulbs one mostly red and the other mostly > blue on the color spectrum). > Let me see if I still have the link bookmarked. > What I was trying to say is that Kelvin does not tell you what color > spectrum the light REALLY is, it's actually measuring it's light > output color according to how the human eyes perceive it. So 6500 > kelvin in general is what most plants will prefer because that is a > mixture of both red and blue spectrums (In MOST bulbs) unfortunately > not all light bulb manufactures have to use the exact same chart for > their colors, so they will have different colors than another bulb > that says it's 6500 Kelvin. what you really need to read is the color > chart on the box, not what lumens it says it is. > (still searching for link, LOL). > > This isn't the right link but it discusses the kelvin/lumen problems a > little bit, still looking for the link that showed the charts and what > to look for in the color charts. > http://www.americanaquariumproducts.com/Aquarium_Lighting.html > <http://www.americanaquariumproducts.com/Aquarium_Lighting.html> > > Will post again when I find the other link with chart examples. > > Amber > > Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > > > > I think it would be false advertising or possibly mis-advertising > (if they > > do not know any better) if a company lists their bulbs as 6500K and > > they aren't. The Kelvin scale, just like Watts and Lumens, are ALL > > universal and scientifically measurable scales BUT, as I showed > > below, not all 40 watt bulbs put out the same amount of light > > (lumens) or in the same color spectrum (Kelvin rating). All 40 watt > > bulbs, whether incandescent, fluorescent, CFL, LED, Halogen, etc.... > > ALL use only/around 40 watts of electricity but their light output > > can vary dramatically. This is why fluorescent bulbs are so much > > more efficient than incandescent bulbs and CFL's are even more > > efficient... as a 40W fluorescent bulb puts out > a LOT > > more light (lumens) than a 40 watt incandescent bulb and a 40W CFL > > puts out more light (lumens) than a 40W fluorescent bulb. This is > > why the OLD "Watts Per Gallon" rule simply does not work any more. > > > > BUT.. if three different companies are selling standard T-10 > > fluorescent bulbs with the same exact rating of 40W, 3550 lumens and > > 6500K rating... all three of those bulbs should be VERY SIMILAR if > > not identical in the way they appear to our eyes (subject to our own > > degree of color blindness, of > > course!) > > > > In the past, things like "soft white", "warm white", "daylight", > > "plant grow", etc., type terms were used and are still used but > > those are just simple words (not subject to a scientific scale) to > > describe the Kelvin rating ranges but lumens are just as important > > since a bulb could have a 6500K rating with only 2200 lumens where > > another bulb could have a 6500K rating and 3550 or 3700 lumens and > > that bulb would put out over 50% more light (lumens) in the same > > color spectrum (Kelvin rating) so it > would be a > > much more cost effective bulb if it cost the same amount or only a > little > > more. > > > > I'm slightly confused about the "red and blue light for your plants" > > as those two colors are on opposite ends of the Kelvin Scale with > > reds and ambers in the lower numbers and greens and blues in the > > higher > numbers. I > > think this is why you would want a mid-range (5000K to 6500K) bulb > > as those are generally considered "full spectrum" or "daylight" > > bulbs. Here's a color picture of the Kelvin Scale, > > http://www.bltdirect.com/images/colour-temperature.jpg > <http://www.bltdirect.com/images/colour-temperature.jpg> > > <http://www.bltdirect.com/images/colour-temperature.jpg > <http://www.bltdirect.com/images/colour-temperature.jpg>> and you can > > visually > > see that the 5000K to 6500K range is all about the same "color". I > > think this is also why Actinic bulbs are usually higher and closer > > to the > 10000K > > range and up... apparently, the Kelvin lighting scale can go up to > 20,000K > > (according to this article about Reef Tanks > > http://nh.craigslist.org/for/1423072406.html > <http://nh.craigslist.org/for/1423072406.html> > > <http://nh.craigslist.org/for/1423072406.html > <http://nh.craigslist.org/for/1423072406.html>> on, of all places, > > Craigslist). > > Here is the page that that the above photo link came from and it has > > a chart that also explains things a little more also and talks about > > the > CRI, yet > > another lighting term (Color Rendition Index). > > http://www.bltdirect.com/lampColourTemperatures.php > <http://www.bltdirect.com/lampColourTemperatures.php> > > <http://www.bltdirect.com/lampColourTemperatures.php > <http://www.bltdirect.com/lampColourTemperatures.php>> > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>> > > (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the > > right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by > > Year, > Month) > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On Behalf Of Amber Berglund > > Sent: Tuesday, November 10, 2009 4:22 PM > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: wisteria/lighting previous > > question/response revisited > > > > Another thing to consider is one light company's 6500 kelvin rating > > may not be identical to another light bulb from a different company > > that's rated the same. The important thing to look at is the color > > chart they show on the boxes, you want more red and blue light for > > your plants, green is not useful or harmful as the plants reflect > > the light back (makes them appear more green but does nothing else > > for them). The kelvin rating is based on our eyes and how they > > perceive color, so each company doesn't have to be identical, > > perhaps some day they will have a universal way to measure light > > spectrums on bulbs that is much less confusing. > > > > Amber > > > > Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > > > > > > OK. So you have a total of 80 watts right now, which is just over > > > 1 WPG, which means you only have enough lighting for low-light, > > > easy to grow plants. See my blog article "Planted Tank: So You > > > Want A Planted Tank" for links to lists of low-light, easy to grow > > > plants that will do OK in your tank. You should replace those tubes at least yearly... > > > although some say every six months. As far as I know, a 40W bulb > > > is the highest wattage made for this type of bulb/fixture right > > > now but you can increase your lighting > > > (lumens) and K (Kelvin) rating. See below. > > > > > > NOTE - below links are for example/informational purposes only, as > > > I know nothing about the sites. God... did I just say that? Do I > > > really have to add disclaimers to my posts now? LOL Just laughing at myself. > > > LOL > > > > > > This may be your Sylvania bulb... > > > http://www.lightbulbemporium.com/proddetail.asp?prod=F40/EX50 > <http://www.lightbulbemporium.com/proddetail.asp?prod=F40/EX50> > > <http://www.lightbulbemporium.com/proddetail.asp?prod=F40/EX50 > <http://www.lightbulbemporium.com/proddetail.asp?prod=F40/EX50>> > > > <http://www.lightbulbemporium.com/proddetail.asp?prod=F40/EX50 > <http://www.lightbulbemporium.com/proddetail.asp?prod=F40/EX50> > > <http://www.lightbulbemporium.com/proddetail.asp?prod=F40/EX50 > <http://www.lightbulbemporium.com/proddetail.asp?prod=F40/EX50>>> and > if > > > it is, then it's the same ratings as the specs in the T-10 bulb > > > that I copy/pasted below, which is a pretty good bulb with higher > > > lumens and the higher K rating, although not a 6500K rated bulb. > > > At the bottom of this page, there was a link to this bulb... > > > > > > http://www.lightbulbemporium.com/maxlite_51204_ml_f40t10_850_rscg.asp > <http://www.lightbulbemporium.com/maxlite_51204_ml_f40t10_850_rscg.asp > > > > > <http://www.lightbulbemporium.com/maxlite_51204_ml_f40t10_850_rscg.asp > <http://www.lightbulbemporium.com/maxlite_51204_ml_f40t10_850_rscg.asp > >> > > > > > > <http://www.lightbulbemporium.com/maxlite_51204_ml_f40t10_850_rscg.asp > <http://www.lightbulbemporium.com/maxlite_51204_ml_f40t10_850_rscg.asp > > > > > <http://www.lightbulbemporium.com/maxlite_51204_ml_f40t10_850_rscg.asp > <http://www.lightbulbemporium.com/maxlite_51204_ml_f40t10_850_rscg.asp > >> > > > > > > > which > > > has an even higher lumen rating of 3700, although not much higher > > > than the 3550 rating but every little bit helps especially since > > > the MaxLite bulb was a lower price than the Sylvania bulb. > > > > > > As you will see on this page > > > > > > http://www.lightbulbsdirect.com/Merchant2/merchant.mvc?page=001/CTGY/F > <http://www.lightbulbsdirect.com/Merchant2/merchant.mvc?page=001/CTGY/ > F> > > > <http://www.lightbulbsdirect.com/Merchant2/merchant.mvc?page=001/CTGY/ > F > <http://www.lightbulbsdirect.com/Merchant2/merchant.mvc?page=001/CTGY/ > F>> > > > S+Fluo > > > > > > <http://www.lightbulbsdirect.com/Merchant2/merchant.mvc?page=001/CTGY/ > <http://www.lightbulbsdirect.com/Merchant2/merchant.mvc?page=001/CTGY/ > > > > > <http://www.lightbulbsdirect.com/Merchant2/merchant.mvc?page=001/CTGY/ > <http://www.lightbulbsdirect.com/Merchant2/merchant.mvc?page=001/CTGY/ > >> > > > FS+Fluo> > > > rescent > > > > > > The second bulb down would be similar to yours, except we do not > > > know the lumen or color spectrum rating on your bulb, unless that > > > link I gave above is actually your bulb and then it would be the > > > same as this one. The specs on it are: > > > > > > T-10 Fluorescent > > > 40 Watts > > > Length: 48" > > > Medium Bi-Pin Base > > > Color: 5000K Temperature > > > Initial Lumens: 3550 > > > CRI: 84 > > > Average Life: 20,000 Hours > > > > > > The Color spectrum of 5000K (Kelvin) is OK but 6500K would be much > > better. > > > The Lumens of 3550 is the actual amount of *light* > > > > > > The next bulb down from that one is a T-12, which will also fit in > > > your fixture but they are bigger diameter bulbs and this one > > > actually puts out less light (lumens). Here are the specs: > > > > > > T-12 Fluorescent > > > 40 Watts > > > Length: 48" > > > Base: Medium Bi-Pin Base > > > Initial Lumens: 2200 > > > Average Life: 20,000 Hours > > > Color Temperature: 5000K > > > CRI: 92 > > > > > > It has the same Color spectrum but only 2200 lumens so the above > > > T-10 bulb has around 50% more lumens (light) coming out of it. > > > > > > Now, if you scroll down to the second from the bottom on the page, > > > you'll see the Verilux Instant-Sun T-12 bulb which has a higher > > > Kelvin rating but it doesn't list the lumens so this needs to be > > > checked out further. While the higher K rating is good, if it goes > > > back down to only 2200 lumens, instead of the 3550 lumens of the > > > first referenced bulb above, then I would probably go with the > > > 3550 lumens, 5000K bulb over the 6280K bulb if the lumens were a LOT less. > > > > > > (START SNIP) > > > Engineered to reproduce all the colors and balance of natural > > > light, VeriluxR full spectrum fluorescent tubes feature Trucolite > > > Phosphor TechnologyT which includes the use of a stable, custom > > > blend of earth phosphors that create bright, balanced full spectrum light. > > > T-12 Fluorescent > > > 40 Watts > > > Length: 48" > > > Color Temperature: 6280K > > > CRI: 94 > > > Medium Bi-Pin Base > > > (END SNIP) > > > > > > So, as you can see, there's a few things to look for when shopping > > > for new replacement bulbs. Look for the 5000K to 6500K bulbs with > > > the higher lumen rating for the dollar and you should be good. > > > Note that a 3550 or 3700 lumen bulb will put out nearly twice as > > > much light as a 2000 lumen bulb so it can be easy to increase your > > > lighting without increasing the wattage. DO NOT try to use HO or > > > VHO bulbs... which look similar but have much higher wattage, well > > > over the 40W bulbs you now have. These other HO and VHO bulbs have > > > different pin arrangements so they will not fit in your fixture > > > anyhow but I just wanted to save you a trip. > > > > > > Last but not least, if you're handy, you could even take the bulbs > > > out of your fixtures and line the insides of your fixtures with > > > nice and crisp and flat aluminum foil (shiny side exposed) which > > > will also help. Using double stick tape and then carefully > > > applying the foil so it does not wrinkle too much will work > > > well... especially if the inside of your fixture is black. A white > > > reflector is good but a mirrored reflector, like that created by > > > the shiny side of foil, is MUCH better than a black reflector. > > > Most black fixtures do at least have white reflector areas. > > > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>> > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>>> > > (Links to any articles referenced in > > > above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under > > > Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On Behalf Of > > > erikaandnewton > > > Sent: Tuesday, November 10, 2009 10:17 AM > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: wisteria/lighting previous > > > question/response revisited > > > > > > << When you say "two strips" do you have two 4' long two-bulb > > > fixtures already or something else?>> > > > > > > i have two 4' single bulb strip lights. > > > > > > >> What kind of lighting do you currently have? Look at the bulbs > > > >> and there should be some kind of writing on one of the ends. > > > >> Give us that info if you cannot decipher it yourself.<< > > > > > > one bulb is a f40 t10 > > > the other one is a sylvania daylight bulb also f40 > > > > > > >> It's probably 21" tall, since a common measurement for a 75G is > > > >> 48"x18"x21" Tall.>> > > > > > > it is 21 inches tall > > > > > > erika wilmington de usa ------------------------------------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. 74/`7.88.><((((:>.74/`7.88.74/`7.8><((((:> 8.74/`7.8. , .74/`7..><((((:> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <:((((><.74/`7.88.74/`7.8<:((((><8.74/`7.8. , .74/`7..<:((((><74/`7.88. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. 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Group: AquaticLife	Message: 44414	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 11/11/2009
Subject: Re: wisteria/lighting previous question/response revisited

The problem might be this statement in the description... "... Hoods include 8000ºK bulb... ...20W, 24"..." That's getting into the higher green/blue Kelvin range... closer to the 10,000K actinic type bulbs... than the 5000K to 6500K "Daylight" bulbs that provide full spectrum lighting. It's also only a 20W bulb (according to the DFS site, although you stated it was only 17W so double check this) so it's only 1WPG on the 20G and only 0.69WPG on the 29G. Of course, if the bulb puts out a LOT more lumens (you would have to do more checking up on the bulb to find this), that would help a little but not much. I think you need at least 1WPG to have success with low-light plants, although floating plants like Anacharis, Hornwort, Duckweed, etc., would be up close to the light and benefit from CO2 from the air and would do OK with your lighting... but then they would also block out the lighting to the rest of the tank. I don't see a lot of options, as far as T-8 bulbs are concerned for this size fixture but I see a few different T-12's... such as... (My rating is: GOOD - but see BETTER and BEST options below... at least as far as the bulbs on this site are concerned) http://www.servicelighting.com/Sylvania-22119-F20T12-DSGN50-T12-Straight-Lin ear-Fluorescent-Light-Bulb Light Output: 880 lumens Refers to the literal measure of the light-output of a particular light bulb, measured in the number of lumens. Energy Used: 20 watts "Watts" is the term applied to the amount of energy required and used by a particular light bulb. It is an international system unit of power equal to one joule per second. Contrary to popular belief, the wattage of a bulb does not directly measure the brightness; the "lumens" of a light is what defines the actual light output. Average Lifetime: 9,000 hours This refers to an average lifetime rating based on large quantities in test groups. This testing takes into account usage of 3 hours per start for fluorescent lamps and 10 hours per start for HID lamps. Bulb Type: T12 The "Bulb Type" is typically a combination of the style of bulb as well as the width of the bulb. Usually, the first couple letters will indicate the type; "G" would indicate "Globe", "PAR" would indicate "Parabolic Reflector"... The numbers indicate the diameter of the light bulb in eighths of an inch; a "G40" would be a "Globe" style that is "5 inches" in diameter. Base Type: Medium Bi-Pin The "Base" of a light bulb is the part that either screws or snaps into a receptacle. Base Type terminology may indicate common descriptive words like "Medium" or "Candelabra", or may even contain numeric codes that signify size and variety, like "E26" or "2GX13". Color Temperature: 5,000K Correlated Color Temperature (CCT) is a specification of the color appearance of a lamp, relating its color to that of a reference source heated to a particular temperature, measured in degrees Kelvin (K). It generally measures the "warmth" or "coolness" of light source appearance. CRI: 90 CRI refers to the "Color Rendering Index" of a light bulb. CRI measures a light source and grades its ability to render the color of objects "correctly," as compared with a reference source with comparable color temperature. 100 is perfect rendering. Length: 24 inches (BETTER - slightly higher lumens and higher 6500K rating) http://www.servicelighting.com/Westinghouse-36516-F20T12-FS-T12-Straight-Lin ear-Fluorescent-Light-Bulb Light Output: 900 lumens Energy Used: 20 watts Average Lifetime: 10,000 hours Bulb Type: T12 Base Type: Medium Bi-Pin Color Temperature: 6,500K CRI: 90 Length: 24 inches (BEST, of these three - around 20% higher lumens and good 6,500K rating, although it does have a lower CRI rating.. but still passing) http://www.servicelighting.com/Sylvania-22083-F20T12-D-T12-Straight-Linear-F luorescent-Light-Bulb Light Output: 1,075 lumens Energy Used: 20 watts Average Lifetime: 9,000 hours Bulb Type: T12 Base Type: Medium Bi-Pin Color Temperature: 6,500K CRI: 76 Length: 24 inches Compare the above three to what is sold as a plant/aquarium light by the same company, which has a lower lumens, MUCH lower CRI rating and does not list the K rating other than to say "Plant" which is a subjective rating established by the manufacturer. (WORST) http://www.servicelighting.com/Westinghouse-36411-F20T12-PL-T12-Straight-Lin ear-Fluorescent-Light-Bulb Light Output: 700 lumens (over 30% less lighting than the 1,075 lumens bulb above) Energy Used: 20 watts Average Lifetime: 10,000 hours Bulb Type: T12 Base Type: Medium Bi-Pin Color: Plant CRI: 61 Length: 24 inches If any of the above have much better lumens than your current lighting... and they all have better K ratings, then any of them would be better for you... but you would still be stuck with only 20 watts but it's the LUMENS and K rating that count more than watts. You need to find out the lumens on your bulb. Try to find it on the DFS site and let us know. You should look at the AHSupply.com place for a retrofit kit so you can use CFL's in your current hood. That would probably be your least expensive option. I know you don't like electricity but I'm sure you know someone that could do this for you... on the cheap... or over a 6-pack. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of bill 1433 Sent: Wednesday, November 11, 2009 9:33 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: wisteria/lighting previous question/response revisited Hi \\Steve// At this point, and also to refresh your mind, and anyone else on the group that may have interest. This all got started with my search for a tube that would allow me more light output from an All Glass Plastic hood and light. This unit comes with a "color type tube at 17 watts that is only 24 inches long. This is for a 20/29-gallon tank. I was stupid enough to buy two of them, one for each tank. For further inspection here is the light: http://www.drsfostersmith.com/product/prod_display.cfm?pcatid=13447 For those that would like to aggravate themselves further, I can also state that these hoods are very conducive to growing Black Algae! Summoning up, I should have only purchased an All-Glass cover and then probably a double tube light of sufficient wattage to bring me up to the recommended 2 or 3 watts per gallon. Ya live and learn, Bill --- On Tue, 11/10/09, Steve Szabo <steve@...> wrote: > From: Steve Szabo <steve@...> > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: wisteria/lighting previous > question/response revisited > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Date: Tuesday, November 10, 2009, 11:50 PM Bill, you got it right! The > T numbers represent the diameter of the bulb in 1/8" increments. A T4 > is a bulb 1/2" in diameter,  T5 is 5/8", t8 is 1" and a t12 is 1 1/2". > As I recall, the F is the wattage of the bulb. > > Lumens, not usually stated on the bulb is the actual amount of light > coming from the bulb. It really does not have anything to do with > watts, though more watts will give you more lumens, but, also the > phosphors used in the bulb affect the amount of lumen output. Lumens > and lux are often used interchangeably, but they are really different > measurements. Lux is the measure of illumination over a given area. It > may actually be more important to aquarists raising plants than the > lumen output. Lux is what is measured by a light meter, for anyone who > happens to know what they are--not often seen with today's cameras and > photographers. > > Color temperature is important. Average daylight (except may in > Amber's area where they have 6 months of darkness) has a color > temperature of 5500-6000. > An overcast day can have a color temperature of 6500. As mentioned > earlier, plants need light in two color spectrums, and, actually they > are rather narrow spans of wavelengths they benefit from. > > I thought I had a bookmark explaining this, but I can't find it > quickly (over 400K of bookmarks, and things have a tendency to get > lost), however, some judicial Googling will gain you the information. > > \\Steve// > > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] > On > Behalf Of bill 1433 > Sent: Tuesday, November 10, 2009 10:20 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: wisteria/lighting previous > question/response revisited > > Yes, Amber >   > It was I, looking for the original information and also looked back on > \\Steve//'s post at group to try and find. Ray had mentioned all this > the other day saying that he thought the posting came from \\Steve//. >   > I was not successful in my search.  Also, for me the most important > part was a link to a chart which showed you exactly, or explained > exactly the "T" > factor stands for.  For instance, T-4 would be a tube that is a half > inch wide, or close to it-----------I think.  All this is my own > fault.  In my interest to acquire and learn about lighting,I went > through and studied the applied links but being ol'bill, I never > bookmarked them. > Then to further > compound the problem, I deleted the original message that it came > from.  In hind-sight you could probably chalk this all up to felonious > stupidity on my part. >   > Bill---where its always a good day if I learn something new! > > --- On Tue, 11/10/09, Amber Berglund <arberglund@...> > wrote: > > > From: Amber Berglund <arberglund@...> > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: wisteria/lighting previous > question/response revisited > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Date: Tuesday, November 10, 2009, 9:30 PM > > > I believe it was Steve who posted a link about lumens months back when > (I think it was maybe Bill asking) about lighting for planted > aquariums. > Plants require 2 different spectrums of light to properly produce > either leaves or flowers (red is more for flower production and blue > is more for growth, but for the best growing you want a mixture of > BOTH colors). > So in reality you would want a light that appears more brown/reddish > in coloring and a blue/white coloring as well, but they now have bulbs > that have BOTH spectrums built in (I'm sure they don't work as well as > it would to have 2 different bulbs one mostly red and the other mostly > blue on the color spectrum). > Let me see if I still have the link bookmarked. > What I was trying to say is that Kelvin does not tell you what color > spectrum the light REALLY is, it's actually measuring it's light > output color according to how the human eyes perceive it. So 6500 > kelvin in general is what most plants will prefer because that is a > mixture of both red and blue spectrums (In MOST bulbs) unfortunately > not all light bulb manufactures have to use the exact same chart for > their colors, so they will have different colors than another bulb > that says it's 6500 Kelvin. what you really need to read is the color > chart on the box, not what lumens it says it is. > (still searching for link, LOL). > > This isn't the right link but it discusses the kelvin/lumen problems a > little bit, still looking for the link that showed the charts and what > to look for in the color charts. > http://www.americanaquariumproducts.com/Aquarium_Lighting.html > > Will post again when I find the other link with chart examples. > > Amber > > > Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > > > > I think it would be false advertising or possibly > mis-advertising (if they > > do not know any better) if a company lists their bulbs > as 6500K and they > > aren't. The Kelvin scale, just like Watts and Lumens, > are ALL > > universal and > > scientifically measurable scales BUT, as I showed > below, not all 40 watt > > bulbs put out the same amount of light (lumens) or in > the same color > > spectrum (Kelvin rating). All 40 watt bulbs, whether > incandescent, > > fluorescent, CFL, LED, Halogen, etc.... ALL use > only/around 40 watts of > > electricity but their light output can vary > dramatically. This is why > > fluorescent bulbs are so much more efficient than > incandescent bulbs and > > CFL's are even more efficient... as a 40W fluorescent > bulb puts out a LOT > > more light (lumens) than a 40 watt incandescent bulb > and a 40W CFL > > puts out > > more light (lumens) than a 40W fluorescent bulb. This > is why the OLD > > "Watts > > Per Gallon" rule simply does not work any more. > > > > BUT.. if three different companies are selling > standard T-10 fluorescent > > bulbs with the same exact rating of 40W, 3550 lumens > and 6500K > > rating... all > > three of those bulbs should be VERY SIMILAR if not > identical in the > > way they > > appear to our eyes (subject to our own degree of color > blindness, of > > course!) > > > > In the past, things like "soft white", "warm white", > "daylight", "plant > > grow", etc., type terms were used and are still used > but those are just > > simple words (not subject to a scientific scale) to > describe the Kelvin > > rating ranges but lumens are just as important since a > bulb could have a > > 6500K rating with only 2200 lumens where another bulb > could have a 6500K > > rating and 3550 or 3700 lumens and that bulb would put > out over 50% more > > light (lumens) in the same color spectrum (Kelvin > rating) so it would be a > > much more cost effective bulb if it cost the same > amount or only a little > > more. > > > > I'm slightly confused about the "red and blue light > for your plants" as > > those two colors are on opposite ends of the Kelvin > Scale with reds and > > ambers in the lower numbers and greens and blues in > the higher numbers. I > > think this is why you would want a mid-range (5000K to > 6500K) bulb as > > those > > are generally considered "full spectrum" or "daylight" > bulbs. Here's a > > color picture of the Kelvin Scale, > > http://www.bltdirect.com/images/colour-temperature.jpg > > > <http://www.bltdirect.com/images/colour-temperature.jpg> > and you can > > visually > > see that the 5000K to 6500K range is all about the > same "color". I think > > this is also why Actinic bulbs are usually higher and > closer to the 10000K > > range and up... apparently, the Kelvin lighting scale > can go up to 20,000K > > (according to this article about Reef Tanks > > http://nh.craigslist.org/for/1423072406.html > > <http://nh.craigslist.org/for/1423072406.html> on, of > all places, > > Craigslist). > > Here is the page that that the above photo link came > from and it has a > > chart > > that also explains things a little more also and talks > about the CRI, yet > > another lighting term (Color Rendition Index). > > http://www.bltdirect.com/lampColourTemperatures.php > > <http://www.bltdirect.com/lampColourTemperatures.php> > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> (Links to any articles referenced in > > above reply are > listed on the right > > side, alphabetically under Labels and also under > Archives by Year, Month) > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On Behalf Of Amber Berglund > > Sent: Tuesday, November 10, 2009 4:22 PM > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: wisteria/lighting > previous > > question/response > > revisited > > > > Another thing to consider is one light company's 6500 > kelvin rating > > may not > > be identical to another light bulb from a different > company that's > > rated the > > same. The important thing to look at is the color > chart they show on the > > boxes, you want more red and blue light for your > plants, green is not > > useful > > or harmful as the plants reflect the light back (makes > them appear more > > green but does nothing else for them). The kelvin > rating is based on our > > eyes and how they perceive color, so each company > doesn't have to be > > identical, perhaps some day they will have a universal > way to measure > > light > > spectrums on bulbs that is much less confusing. > > > > Amber > > > > Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > > > > > > OK. So you have a total of 80 watts right now, > which is just over 1 > > > WPG, which means you only have enough lighting > for low-light, easy to > > > grow plants. See my blog article "Planted Tank: > So You Want A Planted > > > Tank" for links to lists of low-light, easy to > grow plants that will > > > do OK in your tank. You should replace those > tubes at least yearly... > > > although some say every six months. As far as I > know, a 40W bulb is > > > the highest wattage made for this type of > bulb/fixture right now but > > > you can increase your lighting > > > (lumens) and K (Kelvin) rating. See below. > > > > > > NOTE - below links are for example/informational > purposes only, as I > > > know nothing about the sites. God... did I just > say that? Do I really > > > have to add disclaimers to my posts now? LOL Just > laughing at myself. > > > LOL > > > > > > This may be your Sylvania bulb... > > > http://www.lightbulbemporium.com/proddetail.asp?prod=F40/EX50 > > > <http://www.lightbulbemporium.com/proddetail.asp?prod=F40/EX50> > > > <http://www.lightbulbemporium.com/proddetail.asp?prod=F40/EX50 > > > <http://www.lightbulbemporium.com/proddetail.asp?prod=F40/EX50>> > and if > > > it is, then it's the same ratings as the specs in > the T-10 bulb that I > > > copy/pasted below, which is a pretty good bulb > with higher lumens and > > > the higher K rating, although not a 6500K rated > bulb. At the bottom of > > > this page, there was a link to this bulb... > > > > > http://www.lightbulbemporium.com/maxlite_51204_ml_f40t10_850_rscg.as > > p > > > <http://www.lightbulbemporium.com/maxlite_51204_ml_f40t10_850_rscg.a > > sp> > > > > > <http://www.lightbulbemporium.com/maxlite_51204_ml_f40t10_850_rscg.a > > sp > > > <http://www.lightbulbemporium.com/maxlite_51204_ml_f40t10_850_rscg.a > > sp> > > > > > > > which > > > has an even higher lumen rating of 3700, although > not much higher than > > > the 3550 rating but every little bit helps > especially since the > > > MaxLite bulb was a lower price than the Sylvania > bulb. > > > > > > As you will see on this page > > > > > http://www.lightbulbsdirect.com/Merchant2/merchant.mvc?page=001/CTGY > > /F > > > <http://www.lightbulbsdirect.com/Merchant2/merchant.mvc?page=001/CTG > > Y/F> > > > S+Fluo > > > > > <http://www.lightbulbsdirect.com/Merchant2/merchant.mvc?page=001/CTG > > Y/ > > > <http://www.lightbulbsdirect.com/Merchant2/merchant.mvc?page=001/CTG > > Y/> > > > FS+Fluo> > > > rescent > > > > > > The second bulb down would be similar to yours, > except we do not know > > > the lumen or color spectrum rating on your bulb, > unless that link I > > > gave above is actually your bulb and then it > would be the same as this > > > one. The specs on it are: > > > > > > T-10 Fluorescent > > > 40 Watts > > > Length: 48" > > > Medium Bi-Pin Base > > > Color: 5000K Temperature > > > Initial Lumens: 3550 > > > CRI: 84 > > > Average Life: 20,000 Hours > > > > > > The Color spectrum of 5000K (Kelvin) is OK but > 6500K would be much > > better. > > > The Lumens of 3550 is the actual amount of > *light* > > > > > > The next bulb down from that one is a T-12, which > will also fit in > > > your fixture but they are bigger diameter bulbs > and this one actually > > > puts out less light (lumens). Here are the > specs: > > > > > > T-12 Fluorescent > > > 40 Watts > > > Length: 48" > > > Base: Medium Bi-Pin Base > > > Initial Lumens: 2200 > > > Average Life: 20,000 Hours > > > Color Temperature: 5000K > > > CRI: 92 > > > > > > It has the same Color spectrum but only 2200 > lumens so the above T-10 > > > bulb has around 50% more lumens (light) coming > out of it. > > > > > > Now, if you scroll down to the second from the > bottom on the page, > > > you'll see the Verilux Instant-Sun T-12 bulb > which has a higher Kelvin > > > rating but it doesn't list the lumens so this > needs to be checked out > > > further. While the higher K rating is good, if it > goes back down to > > > only 2200 lumens, instead of the 3550 lumens of > the first referenced > > > bulb above, then I would probably go with the > 3550 lumens, 5000K bulb > > > over the 6280K bulb if the lumens were a LOT > less. > > > > > > (START SNIP) > > > Engineered to reproduce all the colors and > balance of natural light, > > > VeriluxR full spectrum fluorescent tubes feature > Trucolite Phosphor > > > TechnologyT which includes the use of a stable, > custom blend of earth > > > phosphors that create bright, balanced full > spectrum light. > > > T-12 Fluorescent > > > 40 Watts > > > Length: 48" > > > Color Temperature: 6280K > > > CRI: 94 > > > Medium Bi-Pin Base > > > (END SNIP) > > > > > > So, as you can see, there's a few things to look > for when shopping for > > > new replacement bulbs. Look for the 5000K to > 6500K bulbs with the > > > higher lumen rating for the dollar and you should > be good. Note that a > > > 3550 or 3700 lumen bulb will put out nearly twice > as much light as a > > > 2000 lumen bulb so it can be easy to increase > your lighting without > > > increasing the wattage. DO NOT try to use HO or > VHO bulbs... which > > > look similar but have much higher wattage, well > over the 40W bulbs you > > > now have. These other HO and VHO bulbs have > different pin arrangements > > > so they will not fit in your fixture anyhow but I > just wanted to save > > > you a trip. > > > > > > Last but not least, if you're handy, you could > even take the bulbs out > > > of your fixtures and line the insides of your > fixtures with nice and > > > crisp and flat aluminum foil (shiny side exposed) > which will also > > > help. Using double stick tape and then carefully > applying the foil so > > > it does not wrinkle too much will work well... > especially if the > > > inside of your fixture is black. A white > reflector is good but a > > > mirrored reflector, like that created by the > shiny side of foil, is > > > MUCH better than a black reflector. Most black > fixtures do at least > > > have white reflector areas. > > > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>> > > (Links to any articles referenced in > > > above reply are listed on the right side, > alphabetically under Labels > > > and also under Archives by Year, Month) > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On > Behalf Of erikaandnewton > > > Sent: Tuesday, November 10, 2009 10:17 AM > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: wisteria/lighting > previous > > > question/response revisited > > > > > > << When you say "two strips" do you have > two 4' long two-bulb fixtures > > > already or something else?>> > > > > > > i have two 4' single bulb strip lights. > > > > > > >> What kind of lighting do you currently > have? Look at the bulbs and > > > >> there should be some kind of writing on > one of the ends. Give us > > > >> that info if you cannot decipher it > yourself.<< > > > > > > one bulb is a f40 t10 > > > the other one is a sylvania daylight bulb also > f40 > > > > > > >> It's probably 21" tall, since a common > measurement for a 75G is > > > >> 48"x18"x21" Tall.>> > > > > > > it is 21 inches tall > > > > > > erika wilmington de usa > > > > > > > > ------------------------------------ > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank > You. > ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> > ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> > PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT > important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message > MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- > <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. > , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. > > If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of unsubscribing, > you can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My > Membership" on the home page. > > Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com > to receive the digest, which includes up to 25 posts at a time in a > single email > > Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com > for the No E-Mail option where you will still be able to read messages > on the group and post replies. > > Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com > to receive individual e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links > > >     AquaticLife-fullfeatured@yahoogroups.com > > > ------------------------------------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the home page. Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com to receive the digest, which includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com for the No E-Mail option where you will still be able to read messages on the group and post replies. Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com to receive individual e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 44415	From: Rev. Eric Roberts	Date: 11/11/2009
Subject: Re: wisteria/lighting previous question/response revisited

Well...when you can get a terabyte drive for under 200, does it really matter? It's not like back in the old days when drive space was probably more expensive than it's weight in gold (I remember back when it cost 3-400 for a 30 mb drive...My first 286 I had rebuilt had a 300mb drive that cost me $300). Between the high cost of storage and memory in the old days is what lead to the issues we had with year 2000 (using a 2 digit year to save space) The 750gb sata drive in my system now was only $63.93 (just put together a new system...my bday present to myself last month hehehe). The loss of a few kb of space is really meaningless in the big picture. It's like the people complaining that Vista wasn't working right when they installed it on a 10 year old computer NTFS allows for better allocation of small files anyway and isn't subject to the pitfalls of fragmentation that you had with the fat/fat32 FS we had with Win98 and earlier. Plus if you are smart, you schedule your defragger to run every once in a while as part of your system maintence to keep things defragged anyway and ths making this a non-issue. There are some pretty nice freeware packages out there that make scheduling easy and if you buy the full versions, they have a lot more features. The one that comes with windows works pretty good. I used to use diskkeeper. I just downloaded one called Smart Defrag that comes with the freeware system utilities package called Advanced System Care. Pretty nice package. The free ware version has a lot of nice features...the paid version has some really cool ones hehehe. Drive size is a bit of an oddity because 1 kb is really 1028 bytes or something like that. Also, when you partition a drive, a part of it is allocated for system purposes, so with that 250 gb drive, I forget the actual amount, but you are only getting about 240 gig (approximately) for actual storage. My 750gb drive loses 52gb to that. Throw in virtual memory and your effective storage capability is much less. It would be so much easier if they adopted a metric version where everything is base 10 hehehe. Lenny, I just checked...Google does have it and it is stored online and accessed via the toolbar. I don't have yahoo toolbar installed right now so I can't check that. You can also export bookmarks as an html file and then import them if you are doing a complete clean OS installation. Firefox also has plugins that do that too. I am sure IE has other plugins as well. Eric --- On Wed, 11/11/09, Steve Szabo <steve@...> wrote: > From: Steve Szabo <steve@...> > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: wisteria/lighting previous question/response revisited > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Date: Wednesday, November 11, 2009, 6:42 AM > Lenny, > > I don't need no steenkin' hack. In Firefox, the bookmarks > are kept as they > should be, as one file, not each bookmark in a separate > file gobbling up > disk space as IE does. It also eats up space in the MFT > (Master File Table). > > For those who do not know about such things, when a drive > is formatted to > hold data, it is broken up into groups of sectors, known as > clusters, the > value of which defaults, in Windows, to 4K (4096 bytes). > They can be any > value from 512 bytes to at least 32K (it may be even larger > now, with NTFS > (new technology file system, but 32K was the limit under 16 > bit DOS). When a > file is written to disk, using 4K cluster size for the > example, it takes up > as many clusters as needed. So, a file that is 32K in size > would use 8 > clusters (4K x 8). A file that is 28K would use 7 clusters > (28 k/4K=7). > However, a file that is 29K would use 8 clusters. It would > fill the 7 > clusters, with an extra 1024 bytes, which are placed in the > next, or 8th > cluster, leaving 3K of that cluster as being unavailable to > another file. > > Consider now, that each bookmark is generally less than 1K > (1024 bytes). > When you are using IE (Internet Explorer), that means that > you are wasting > 3K of each available cluster to store the bookmark as a > file. Let us assume > you have 400 bookmarks. I am sure you can do the math. That > would mean that > you have 400 files, each taking up 4K of disk space, > meaning that you are > using 1600K to store those files. This means that 400 > entries are placed in > the MFT. > > In the case of Firefox, and other browsers not based on IE, > all the > bookmarks are stored in a file. Say that you have the same > 400 bookmarks, > using 1K as the size of each bookmark, on average, that > would mean that you > have a file that is 400K in size, which (conveniently, it > seems) works out > to a 100K file, stored in 25 clusters and 1 entry in the > MFT. A great > savings in disk space. > > There are other issues to consider here as well, but I am > sure you are > plenty bored by know. However, (oh no!, he's going to say > more even though > he said he was done) please keep in mind that drive > manufacturers use a > decimal system to calculate drive sizes, so that 250GB > drive you have in > your box is not 250GB to the computer, which uses a binary > system to > calculate drive size. That is why, when you look at the > drive size through > your operating system, the drive appears to be smaller than > advertised. It's > kind of like that 55 gallon tank that actually holds less > than 55 gallons. > Tank measurements are measuring the outside dimensions of > the tank not the > inside dimensions, plus, none of use fills a tank right to > the top of the > tank, giving us an actual capacity of somewhat less than 55 > gallons, and > that is before we add substrate and decorations, fish, and > plants to the > tank, each displacing a certain amount of water. (You may > insert your own > Archimedes joke here.) (Notice how I actually brought this > back onto an > aquarium topic?) > > \\Steve// > > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] > On > Behalf Of Lenny V. aka GoldLenny > Sent: Wednesday, November 11, 2009 1:30 AM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: wisteria/lighting previous > question/response > revisited > > Yeah... I keep kind of hoping that Google will eventually > provide an online > "Bookmarks/Favorites" service or homepage add-in, which > would also include a > search feature and maybe even a way to scan for bad links > in the > Bookmarks/Favorites instead of finding out when you go to > use that long kept > bookmark/favorite and the site no longer exists... of > course, there's always > the Wayback Machine at the Internet Archive http://www.archive.org to find > websites/pages that have disappeared from the net. > > I regularly go into my IE Favorites and use the "Organize > Favorites" feature > to move things around but also will use Windows Explorer, > C:\Documents and > Settings\Owner\Favorites\, to look at my Favorites folder > and drag and drop, > move and rename things around in there. > > Then, there is this Registry hack to mass sort the > Favorites folder, > sub-folders and files, instead of having to "Sort By Name" > inside each > folder. From > http://www.theeldergeek.com/sort_favorites_menu_alphabetical.htm > (with some > added instructions by me to clarify some things). > > Sort Favorites Menu Alphabetically > [Start] [Run] [Regedit] > Registry Key: > HKEY_CURRENT_USER\Software\Microsoft\Windows\CurrentVersion\Explorer\MenuOrd > er\Favorites > (Click on Favorites to highlight, then in the view panel) > Right click the Favorites key *Order* and click Delete > Exit registry and reboot. > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed > on the right > side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives > by Year, Month) > > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] > On > Behalf Of Steve Szabo > Sent: Tuesday, November 10, 2009 11:43 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: wisteria/lighting previous > question/response > revisited > > Lenny, > I have a couple of problems. First, I do have a lot of > folders and sub > folders for things, and try to use them. However, I can > also be pressed for > time, and just bookmark it, thinking I'll fix it later. > Somehow, later comes > even later than one would expect, and when it does arrive, > I do a bunch, but > never finish going through the list. > > The other problem is that what made sense at the time, may > not make sense > when I am looking for the bookmark, possible because I a > thinking about the > topic in a different way than when I bookmarked the site. > It is kind of like > how one searches the web. If your first key words do not > provide what you > are looking for, you modify those terms and search again. > Same topic, a bit > different way of looking at it. Eventually, you will get > what you want. What > I probably need is a bookmark search engine. > > For those of you who were born and weaned with Windows, > bookmarks is the > correct term, not Microsoft's Favorites, though, I must > admit, it is > possible to have favorite bookmarks. > > \\Steve// > > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] > On > Behalf Of Lenny V. aka GoldLenny > Sent: Tuesday, November 10, 2009 11:57 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: wisteria/lighting previous > question/response > revisited > > Bookmarks and Favorites are filing systems... if you don't > know how/where > it's filed, you won't find it anyhow. > > I have an extensive Favorites folder with dozens of primary > folders and then > dozens if not hundreds of sub-folders and sub-sub-folders, > for example, > under Favorites, I have 59 primary folders and one of them > is called > Aquarium Sites, then, in that folder, I have 44 > alphabetized sub-folders > just in that folder, from Additives and Algae to > Tutorials-Quizzes and UGF > Filters (no V,W,X,Y,Z sub-folders under Aquarium... not > sure why not). Then > in the Algae folder, I have 7 sub-sub-folders dealing with > topics such as > Algae Eaters, Allelopathic Control, Diatoms-Brown Algae, > Hair Algae, > Hydrogen Peroxide, Pond Algae, SeaChem Flourish Excel For > Treating Algae and > then 11 other favorites about Algae in general, for a total > of 48 links, > just about Algae. > > My Favorites folder, when looking at its Properties, is > 1.41MB in size and > consists of 2,057 files (links) and 306 folders (incl. sub > and sub-sub > folders) in totality. Many years of surfing and > saving and starting off > with an organizational plan from the start makes it easy > for me to navigate > and find things easily. My Favorites is like a > mini-Google. ;-) > > I have been toying around with the idea of using a web > resource to keep my > Favorites folder online so I can sync it with all of my > computers and/or > just use it as an online Favorites folder that I can log > into from any > computer. For now, I use LogMeIn (Free) to connect to > my main computer from > my laptop when I'm out in the streets playing... oops.. I > meant working. > > But I don't think I'd share my Favorites or then I'd have > to go in and edit > out all my favorite porn links... well, maybe not for Bill. > LOL > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to > any articles referenced > in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically > under Labels and > also under Archives by Year, Month) > > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] > On > Behalf Of Amber Berglund > Sent: Tuesday, November 10, 2009 10:25 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: wisteria/lighting previous > question/response > revisited > > No worries Bill, I do the same thing, maybe Lenny will be > so kind as to send > us all his bookmarks? LOL > > Amber > > bill 1433 wrote: > > > > Yes, Amber > > > > It was I, looking for the original information and > also looked back on > > \\Steve//'s post at group to try and find. Ray had > mentioned all this > > the other day saying that he thought the posting came > from \\Steve//. > > > > I was not successful in my search. Also, for me the > most important > > part was a link to a chart which showed you exactly, > or explained > > exactly the "T" factor stands for. For instance, T-4 > would be a tube > > that is a half inch wide, or close to it-----------I > think. All this > > is my own fault. In my interest to acquire and learn > about lighting,I > > went through and studied the applied links but being > ol'bill, I never > > bookmarked them. Then to further compound the problem, > I deleted the > > original message that it came from. In hind-sight you > could probably > > chalk this all up to felonious stupidity on my part. > > > > Bill---where its always a good day if I learn > something new! > > > > --- On Tue, 11/10/09, Amber Berglund <arberglund@... > > > <mailto:arberglund%40gmail.com>> wrote: > > > > From: Amber Berglund <arberglund@... > > > <mailto:arberglund%40gmail.com>> > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: wisteria/lighting > previous > > question/response revisited > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > Date: Tuesday, November 10, 2009, 9:30 PM > > > > I believe it was Steve who posted a link about lumens > months back when > > (I think it was maybe Bill asking) about lighting for > planted aquariums. > > Plants require 2 different spectrums of light to > properly produce > > either leaves or flowers (red is more for flower > production and blue > > is more for growth, but for the best growing you want > a mixture of BOTH > colors). > > So in reality you would want a light that appears more > brown/reddish > > in coloring and a blue/white coloring as well, but > they now have bulbs > > that have BOTH spectrums built in (I'm sure they don't > work as well as > > it would to have 2 different bulbs one mostly red and > the other mostly > > blue on the color spectrum). > > Let me see if I still have the link bookmarked. > > What I was trying to say is that Kelvin does not tell > you what color > > spectrum the light REALLY is, it's actually measuring > it's light > > output color according to how the human eyes perceive > it. So 6500 > > kelvin in general is what most plants will prefer > because that is a > > mixture of both red and blue spectrums (In MOST bulbs) > unfortunately > > not all light bulb manufactures have to use the exact > same chart for > > their colors, so they will have different colors than > another bulb > > that says it's 6500 Kelvin. what you really need to > read is the color > > chart on the box, not what lumens it says it is. > > (still searching for link, LOL). > > > > This isn't the right link but it discusses the > kelvin/lumen problems a > > little bit, still looking for the link that showed the > charts and what > > to look for in the color charts. > > http://www.americanaquariumproducts.com/Aquarium_Lighting.html > > <http://www.americanaquariumproducts.com/Aquarium_Lighting.html> > > > > Will post again when I find the other link with chart > examples. > > > > Amber > > > > Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > > > > > > I think it would be false advertising or possibly > mis-advertising > > (if they > > > do not know any better) if a company lists their > bulbs as 6500K and > > > they aren't. The Kelvin scale, just like Watts > and Lumens, are ALL > > > universal and scientifically measurable scales > BUT, as I showed > > > below, not all 40 watt bulbs put out the same > amount of light > > > (lumens) or in the same color spectrum (Kelvin > rating). All 40 watt > > > bulbs, whether incandescent, fluorescent, CFL, > LED, Halogen, etc.... > > > ALL use only/around 40 watts of electricity but > their light output > > > can vary dramatically. This is why fluorescent > bulbs are so much > > > more efficient than incandescent bulbs and CFL's > are even more > > > efficient... as a 40W fluorescent bulb puts out > > a LOT > > > more light (lumens) than a 40 watt incandescent > bulb and a 40W CFL > > > puts out more light (lumens) than a 40W > fluorescent bulb. This is > > > why the OLD "Watts Per Gallon" rule simply does > not work any more. > > > > > > BUT.. if three different companies are selling > standard T-10 > > > fluorescent bulbs with the same exact rating of > 40W, 3550 lumens and > > > 6500K rating... all three of those bulbs should > be VERY SIMILAR if > > > not identical in the way they appear to our eyes > (subject to our own > > > degree of color blindness, of > > > course!) > > > > > > In the past, things like "soft white", "warm > white", "daylight", > > > "plant grow", etc., type terms were used and are > still used but > > > those are just simple words (not subject to a > scientific scale) to > > > describe the Kelvin rating ranges but lumens are > just as important > > > since a bulb could have a 6500K rating with only > 2200 lumens where > > > another bulb could have a 6500K rating and 3550 > or 3700 lumens and > > > that bulb would put out over 50% more light > (lumens) in the same > > > color spectrum (Kelvin rating) so it > > would be a > > > much more cost effective bulb if it cost the same > amount or only a > > little > > > more. > > > > > > I'm slightly confused about the "red and blue > light for your plants" > > > as those two colors are on opposite ends of the > Kelvin Scale with > > > reds and ambers in the lower numbers and greens > and blues in the > > > higher > > numbers. I > > > think this is why you would want a mid-range > (5000K to 6500K) bulb > > > as those are generally considered "full spectrum" > or "daylight" > > > bulbs. Here's a color picture of the Kelvin > Scale, > > > http://www.bltdirect.com/images/colour-temperature.jpg > > <http://www.bltdirect.com/images/colour-temperature.jpg> > > > <http://www.bltdirect.com/images/colour-temperature.jpg > > <http://www.bltdirect.com/images/colour-temperature.jpg>> > and you can > > > visually > > > see that the 5000K to 6500K range is all about > the same "color". I > > > think this is also why Actinic bulbs are usually > higher and closer > > > to the > > 10000K > > > range and up... apparently, the Kelvin lighting > scale can go up to > > 20,000K > > > (according to this article about Reef Tanks > > > http://nh.craigslist.org/for/1423072406.html > > <http://nh.craigslist.org/for/1423072406.html> > > > <http://nh.craigslist.org/for/1423072406.html > > <http://nh.craigslist.org/for/1423072406.html>> > on, of all places, > > > Craigslist). > > > Here is the page that that the above photo link > came from and it has > > > a chart that also explains things a little more > also and talks about > > > the > > CRI, yet > > > another lighting term (Color Rendition Index). > > > http://www.bltdirect.com/lampColourTemperatures.php > > <http://www.bltdirect.com/lampColourTemperatures.php> > > > <http://www.bltdirect.com/lampColourTemperatures.php > > <http://www.bltdirect.com/lampColourTemperatures.php>> > > > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>> > > > (Links to any articles referenced in above reply > are listed on the > > > right side, alphabetically under Labels and also > under Archives by > > > Year, > > Month) > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On > Behalf Of Amber Berglund > > > Sent: Tuesday, November 10, 2009 4:22 PM > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: wisteria/lighting > previous > > > question/response revisited > > > > > > Another thing to consider is one light company's > 6500 kelvin rating > > > may not be identical to another light bulb from a > different company > > > that's rated the same. The important thing to > look at is the color > > > chart they show on the boxes, you want more red > and blue light for > > > your plants, green is not useful or harmful as > the plants reflect > > > the light back (makes them appear more green but > does nothing else > > > for them). The kelvin rating is based on our eyes > and how they > > > perceive color, so each company doesn't have to > be identical, > > > perhaps some day they will have a universal way > to measure light > > > spectrums on bulbs that is much less confusing. > > > > > > Amber > > > > > > Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > > > > > > > > OK. So you have a total of 80 watts right > now, which is just over > > > > 1 WPG, which means you only have enough > lighting for low-light, > > > > easy to grow plants. See my blog article > "Planted Tank: So You > > > > Want A Planted Tank" for links to lists of > low-light, easy to grow > > > > plants that will do OK in your tank. You > should replace those tubes at > least yearly... > > > > although some say every six months. As far > as I know, a 40W bulb > > > > is the highest wattage made for this type of > bulb/fixture right > > > > now but you can increase your lighting > > > > (lumens) and K (Kelvin) rating. See below. > > > > > > > > NOTE - below links are for > example/informational purposes only, as > > > > I know nothing about the sites. God... did I > just say that? Do I > > > > really have to add disclaimers to my posts > now? LOL Just laughing at > myself. > > > > LOL > > > > > > > > This may be your Sylvania bulb... > > > > http://www.lightbulbemporium.com/proddetail.asp?prod=F40/EX50 > > <http://www.lightbulbemporium.com/proddetail.asp?prod=F40/EX50> > > > <http://www.lightbulbemporium.com/proddetail.asp?prod=F40/EX50 > > <http://www.lightbulbemporium.com/proddetail.asp?prod=F40/EX50>> > > > > <http://www.lightbulbemporium.com/proddetail.asp?prod=F40/EX50 > > <http://www.lightbulbemporium.com/proddetail.asp?prod=F40/EX50> > > > <http://www.lightbulbemporium.com/proddetail.asp?prod=F40/EX50 > > <http://www.lightbulbemporium.com/proddetail.asp?prod=F40/EX50>>> > and > > if > > > > it is, then it's the same ratings as the > specs in the T-10 bulb > > > > that I copy/pasted below, which is a pretty > good bulb with higher > > > > lumens and the higher K rating, although not > a 6500K rated bulb. > > > > At the bottom of this page, there was a link > to this bulb... > > > > > > > > > http://www.lightbulbemporium.com/maxlite_51204_ml_f40t10_850_rscg.asp > > <http://www.lightbulbemporium.com/maxlite_51204_ml_f40t10_850_rscg.asp > > > > > > > > <http://www.lightbulbemporium.com/maxlite_51204_ml_f40t10_850_rscg.asp > > <http://www.lightbulbemporium.com/maxlite_51204_ml_f40t10_850_rscg.asp > > >> > > > > > > > > > <http://www.lightbulbemporium.com/maxlite_51204_ml_f40t10_850_rscg.asp > > <http://www.lightbulbemporium.com/maxlite_51204_ml_f40t10_850_rscg.asp > > > > > > > > <http://www.lightbulbemporium.com/maxlite_51204_ml_f40t10_850_rscg.asp > > <http://www.lightbulbemporium.com/maxlite_51204_ml_f40t10_850_rscg.asp > > >> > > > > > > > > > which > > > > has an even higher lumen rating of 3700, > although not much higher > > > > than the 3550 rating but every little bit > helps especially since > > > > the MaxLite bulb was a lower price than the > Sylvania bulb. > > > > > > > > As you will see on this page > > > > > > > > > http://www.lightbulbsdirect.com/Merchant2/merchant.mvc?page=001/CTGY/F > > <http://www.lightbulbsdirect.com/Merchant2/merchant.mvc?page=001/CTGY/ > > F> > > > > > <http://www.lightbulbsdirect.com/Merchant2/merchant.mvc?page=001/CTGY/ > > F > > <http://www.lightbulbsdirect.com/Merchant2/merchant.mvc?page=001/CTGY/ > > F>> > > > > S+Fluo > > > > > > > > > <http://www.lightbulbsdirect.com/Merchant2/merchant.mvc?page=001/CTGY/ > > <http://www.lightbulbsdirect.com/Merchant2/merchant.mvc?page=001/CTGY/ > > > > > > > > <http://www.lightbulbsdirect.com/Merchant2/merchant.mvc?page=001/CTGY/ > > <http://www.lightbulbsdirect.com/Merchant2/merchant.mvc?page=001/CTGY/ > > >> > > > > FS+Fluo> > > > > rescent > > > > > > > > The second bulb down would be similar to > yours, except we do not > > > > know the lumen or color spectrum rating on > your bulb, unless that > > > > link I gave above is actually your bulb and > then it would be the > > > > same as this one. The specs on it are: > > > > > > > > T-10 Fluorescent > > > > 40 Watts > > > > Length: 48" > > > > Medium Bi-Pin Base > > > > Color: 5000K Temperature > > > > Initial Lumens: 3550 > > > > CRI: 84 > > > > Average Life: 20,000 Hours > > > > > > > > The Color spectrum of 5000K (Kelvin) is OK > but 6500K would be much > > > better. > > > > The Lumens of 3550 is the actual amount of > *light* > > > > > > > > The next bulb down from that one is a T-12, > which will also fit in > > > > your fixture but they are bigger diameter > bulbs and this one > > > > actually puts out less light (lumens). Here > are the specs: > > > > > > > > T-12 Fluorescent > > > > 40 Watts > > > > Length: 48" > > > > Base: Medium Bi-Pin Base > > > > Initial Lumens: 2200 > > > > Average Life: 20,000 Hours > > > > Color Temperature: 5000K > > > > CRI: 92 > > > > > > > > It has the same Color spectrum but only 2200 > lumens so the above > > > > T-10 bulb has around 50% more lumens (light) > coming out of it. > > > > > > > > Now, if you scroll down to the second from > the bottom on the page, > > > > you'll see the Verilux Instant-Sun T-12 bulb > which has a higher > > > > Kelvin rating but it doesn't list the lumens > so this needs to be > > > > checked out further. While the higher K > rating is good, if it goes > > > > back down to only 2200 lumens, instead of > the 3550 lumens of the > > > > first referenced bulb above, then I would > probably go with the > > > > 3550 lumens, 5000K bulb over the 6280K bulb > if the lumens were a LOT > less. > > > > > > > > (START SNIP) > > > > Engineered to reproduce all the colors and > balance of natural > > > > light, VeriluxR full spectrum fluorescent > tubes feature Trucolite > > > > Phosphor TechnologyT which includes the use > of a stable, custom > > > > blend of earth phosphors that create bright, > balanced full spectrum > light. > > > > T-12 Fluorescent > > > > 40 Watts > > > > Length: 48" > > > > Color Temperature: 6280K > > > > CRI: 94 > > > > Medium Bi-Pin Base > > > > (END SNIP) > > > > > > > > So, as you can see, there's a few things to > look for when shopping > > > > for new replacement bulbs. Look for the > 5000K to 6500K bulbs with > > > > the higher lumen rating for the dollar and > you should be good. > > > > Note that a 3550 or 3700 lumen bulb will put > out nearly twice as > > > > much light as a 2000 lumen bulb so it can be > easy to increase your > > > > lighting without increasing the wattage. DO > NOT try to use HO or > > > > VHO bulbs... which look similar but have > much higher wattage, well > > > > over the 40W bulbs you now have. These other > HO and VHO bulbs have > > > > different pin arrangements so they will not > fit in your fixture > > > > anyhow but I just wanted to save you a > trip. > > > > > > > > Last but not least, if you're handy, you > could even take the bulbs > > > > out of your fixtures and line the insides of > your fixtures with > > > > nice and crisp and flat aluminum foil (shiny > side exposed) which > > > > will also help. Using double stick tape and > then carefully > > > > applying the foil so it does not wrinkle too > much will work > > > > well... especially if the inside of your > fixture is black. A white > > > > reflector is good but a mirrored reflector, > like that created by > > > > the shiny side of foil, is MUCH better than > a black reflector. > > > > Most black fixtures do at least have white > reflector areas. > > > > > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>> > > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>>> > > > (Links to any articles referenced in > > > > above reply are listed on the right side, > alphabetically under > > > > Labels and also under Archives by Year, > Month) > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On Behalf Of > > > > erikaandnewton > > > > Sent: Tuesday, November 10, 2009 10:17 AM > > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: wisteria/lighting > previous > > > > question/response revisited > > > > > > > > << When you say "two strips" do you > have two 4' long two-bulb > > > > fixtures already or something else?>> > > > > > > > > i have two 4' single bulb strip lights. > > > > > > > > >> What kind of lighting do you > currently have? Look at the bulbs > > > > >> and there should be some kind of > writing on one of the ends. > > > > >> Give us that info if you cannot > decipher it yourself.<< > > > > > > > > one bulb is a f40 t10 > > > > the other one is a sylvania daylight bulb > also f40 > > > > > > > > >> It's probably 21" tall, since a > common measurement for a 75G is > > > > >> 48"x18"x21" Tall.>> > > > > > > > > it is 21 inches tall > > > > > > > > erika wilmington de usa > > > > > ------------------------------------ > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when > replying, Thank You. > ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> > ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> > PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is > NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of > the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new > subject (was re: old subject)" <- > <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. > , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. > > If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of > unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by > clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the home page. > > Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com > to receive the digest, which includes up to 25 posts at a > time in a single email > > Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com > for the No E-Mail option where you will still be able to > read messages on the group and post replies. > > Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com > to receive individual e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links > > > AquaticLife-fullfeatured@yahoogroups.com > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 44416	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 11/11/2009
Subject: Re: wisteria/lighting previous question/response revisited

Those were my thoughts also when \\Steve// started talking about the file size of a Favorites folder. My Favorites folder is only 1.41MB in size. I have single photos (out of thousands) that are bigger than that. Maybe \\Steve// was having a flashback to the 5.25" floppy days where 1.41MB wouldn't fit on the disk. LOL Yeah, I know about the feature via Google Toolbar BUT I don't use all them crappy toolbar add-ons... well, except for Roboforms, which I've been using for years and like. I try to avoid as many plug-ins/add-ons as possible. Each one adds a new potential security issue so it's best to limit them. Same with apps on phones. This subject has been making the tech news a LOT lately. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Rev. Eric Roberts Sent: Wednesday, November 11, 2009 11:00 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: wisteria/lighting previous question/response revisited Well...when you can get a terabyte drive for under 200, does it really matter? It's not like back in the old days when drive space was probably more expensive than it's weight in gold (I remember back when it cost 3-400 for a 30 mb drive...My first 286 I had rebuilt had a 300mb drive that cost me $300). Between the high cost of storage and memory in the old days is what lead to the issues we had with year 2000 (using a 2 digit year to save space) The 750gb sata drive in my system now was only $63.93 (just put together a new system...my bday present to myself last month hehehe). The loss of a few kb of space is really meaningless in the big picture. It's like the people complaining that Vista wasn't working right when they installed it on a 10 year old computer NTFS allows for better allocation of small files anyway and isn't subject to the pitfalls of fragmentation that you had with the fat/fat32 FS we had with Win98 and earlier. Plus if you are smart, you schedule your defragger to run every once in a while as part of your system maintence to keep things defragged anyway and ths making this a non-issue. There are some pretty nice freeware packages out there that make scheduling easy and if you buy the full versions, they have a lot more features. The one that comes with windows works pretty good. I used to use diskkeeper. I just downloaded one called Smart Defrag that comes with the freeware system utilities package called Advanced System Care. Pretty nice package. The free ware version has a lot of nice features...the paid version has some really cool ones hehehe. Drive size is a bit of an oddity because 1 kb is really 1028 bytes or something like that. Also, when you partition a drive, a part of it is allocated for system purposes, so with that 250 gb drive, I forget the actual amount, but you are only getting about 240 gig (approximately) for actual storage. My 750gb drive loses 52gb to that. Throw in virtual memory and your effective storage capability is much less. It would be so much easier if they adopted a metric version where everything is base 10 hehehe. Lenny, I just checked...Google does have it and it is stored online and accessed via the toolbar. I don't have yahoo toolbar installed right now so I can't check that. You can also export bookmarks as an html file and then import them if you are doing a complete clean OS installation. Firefox also has plugins that do that too. I am sure IE has other plugins as well. Eric --- On Wed, 11/11/09, Steve Szabo <steve@...> wrote: > From: Steve Szabo <steve@...> > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: wisteria/lighting previous > question/response revisited > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Date: Wednesday, November 11, 2009, 6:42 AM Lenny, > > I don't need no steenkin' hack. In Firefox, the bookmarks are kept as > they should be, as one file, not each bookmark in a separate file > gobbling up disk space as IE does. It also eats up space in the MFT > (Master File Table). > > For those who do not know about such things, when a drive is formatted > to hold data, it is broken up into groups of sectors, known as > clusters, the value of which defaults, in Windows, to 4K (4096 bytes). > They can be any > value from 512 bytes to at least 32K (it may be even larger now, with > NTFS (new technology file system, but 32K was the limit under 16 bit > DOS). When a file is written to disk, using 4K cluster size for the > example, it takes up as many clusters as needed. So, a file that is > 32K in size would use 8 clusters (4K x 8). A file that is 28K would > use 7 clusters > (28 k/4K=7). > However, a file that is 29K would use 8 clusters. It would fill the 7 > clusters, with an extra 1024 bytes, which are placed in the next, or > 8th cluster, leaving 3K of that cluster as being unavailable to > another file. > > Consider now, that each bookmark is generally less than 1K > (1024 bytes). > When you are using IE (Internet Explorer), that means that you are > wasting 3K of each available cluster to store the bookmark as a file. > Let us assume you have 400 bookmarks. I am sure you can do the math. > That would mean that you have 400 files, each taking up 4K of disk > space, meaning that you are using 1600K to store those files. This > means that 400 entries are placed in the MFT. > > In the case of Firefox, and other browsers not based on IE, all the > bookmarks are stored in a file. Say that you have the same 400 > bookmarks, using 1K as the size of each bookmark, on average, that > would mean that you have a file that is 400K in size, which > (conveniently, it > seems) works out > to a 100K file, stored in 25 clusters and 1 entry in the MFT. A great > savings in disk space. > > There are other issues to consider here as well, but I am sure you are > plenty bored by know. However, (oh no!, he's going to say more even > though he said he was done) please keep in mind that drive > manufacturers use a decimal system to calculate drive sizes, so that > 250GB drive you have in your box is not 250GB to the computer, which > uses a binary system to calculate drive size. That is why, when you > look at the drive size through your operating system, the drive > appears to be smaller than advertised. It's kind of like that 55 > gallon tank that actually holds less than 55 gallons. > Tank measurements are measuring the outside dimensions of the tank not > the inside dimensions, plus, none of use fills a tank right to the top > of the tank, giving us an actual capacity of somewhat less than 55 > gallons, and that is before we add substrate and decorations, fish, > and plants to the tank, each displacing a certain amount of water. > (You may insert your own Archimedes joke here.) (Notice how I actually > brought this back onto an aquarium topic?) > > \\Steve// > > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] > On > Behalf Of Lenny V. aka GoldLenny > Sent: Wednesday, November 11, 2009 1:30 AM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: wisteria/lighting previous > question/response revisited > > Yeah... I keep kind of hoping that Google will eventually provide an > online "Bookmarks/Favorites" service or homepage add-in, which would > also include a search feature and maybe even a way to scan for bad > links in the Bookmarks/Favorites instead of finding out when you go to > use that long kept bookmark/favorite and the site no longer exists... > of course, there's always the Wayback Machine at the Internet Archive > http://www.archive.org to find websites/pages that have disappeared > from the net. > > I regularly go into my IE Favorites and use the "Organize Favorites" > feature to move things around but also will use Windows Explorer, > C:\Documents and Settings\Owner\Favorites\, to look at my Favorites > folder and drag and drop, move and rename things around in there. > > Then, there is this Registry hack to mass sort the Favorites folder, > sub-folders and files, instead of having to "Sort By Name" > inside each > folder. From > http://www.theeldergeek.com/sort_favorites_menu_alphabetical.htm > (with some > added instructions by me to clarify some things). > > Sort Favorites Menu Alphabetically > [Start] [Run] [Regedit] > Registry Key: > HKEY_CURRENT_USER\Software\Microsoft\Windows\CurrentVersion\Explorer\M > enuOrd > er\Favorites > (Click on Favorites to highlight, then in the view panel) Right click > the Favorites key *Order* and click Delete Exit registry and reboot. > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles > referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically > under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) > > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] > On > Behalf Of Steve Szabo > Sent: Tuesday, November 10, 2009 11:43 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: wisteria/lighting previous > question/response > revisited > > Lenny, > I have a couple of problems. First, I do have a lot of > folders and sub > folders for things, and try to use them. However, I can > also be pressed for > time, and just bookmark it, thinking I'll fix it later. > Somehow, later comes > even later than one would expect, and when it does arrive, > I do a bunch, but > never finish going through the list. > > The other problem is that what made sense at the time, may > not make sense > when I am looking for the bookmark, possible because I a > thinking about the > topic in a different way than when I bookmarked the site. > It is kind of like > how one searches the web. If your first key words do not > provide what you > are looking for, you modify those terms and search again. > Same topic, a bit > different way of looking at it. Eventually, you will get > what you want. What > I probably need is a bookmark search engine. > > For those of you who were born and weaned with Windows, > bookmarks is the > correct term, not Microsoft's Favorites, though, I must > admit, it is > possible to have favorite bookmarks. > > \\Steve// > > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] > On > Behalf Of Lenny V. aka GoldLenny > Sent: Tuesday, November 10, 2009 11:57 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: wisteria/lighting previous > question/response > revisited > > Bookmarks and Favorites are filing systems... if you don't > know how/where > it's filed, you won't find it anyhow. > > I have an extensive Favorites folder with dozens of primary > folders and then > dozens if not hundreds of sub-folders and sub-sub-folders, > for example, > under Favorites, I have 59 primary folders and one of them > is called > Aquarium Sites, then, in that folder, I have 44 > alphabetized sub-folders > just in that folder, from Additives and Algae to > Tutorials-Quizzes and UGF > Filters (no V,W,X,Y,Z sub-folders under Aquarium... not > sure why not). Then > in the Algae folder, I have 7 sub-sub-folders dealing with > topics such as > Algae Eaters, Allelopathic Control, Diatoms-Brown Algae, > Hair Algae, > Hydrogen Peroxide, Pond Algae, SeaChem Flourish Excel For > Treating Algae and > then 11 other favorites about Algae in general, for a total > of 48 links, > just about Algae. > > My Favorites folder, when looking at its Properties, is > 1.41MB in size and > consists of 2,057 files (links) and 306 folders (incl. sub > and sub-sub > folders) in totality. Many years of surfing and > saving and starting off > with an organizational plan from the start makes it easy > for me to navigate > and find things easily. My Favorites is like a > mini-Google. ;-) > > I have been toying around with the idea of using a web > resource to keep my > Favorites folder online so I can sync it with all of my > computers and/or > just use it as an online Favorites folder that I can log > into from any > computer. For now, I use LogMeIn (Free) to connect to > my main computer from > my laptop when I'm out in the streets playing... oops.. I > meant working. > > But I don't think I'd share my Favorites or then I'd have > to go in and edit > out all my favorite porn links... well, maybe not for Bill. > LOL > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to > any articles referenced > in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically > under Labels and > also under Archives by Year, Month) > > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] > On > Behalf Of Amber Berglund > Sent: Tuesday, November 10, 2009 10:25 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: wisteria/lighting previous > question/response > revisited > > No worries Bill, I do the same thing, maybe Lenny will be > so kind as to send > us all his bookmarks? LOL > > Amber > > bill 1433 wrote: > > > > Yes, Amber > > > > It was I, looking for the original information and > also looked back on > > \\Steve//'s post at group to try and find. Ray had > mentioned all this > > the other day saying that he thought the posting came > from \\Steve//. > > > > I was not successful in my search. Also, for me the > most important > > part was a link to a chart which showed you exactly, > or explained > > exactly the "T" factor stands for. For instance, T-4 > would be a tube > > that is a half inch wide, or close to it-----------I > think. All this > > is my own fault. In my interest to acquire and learn > about lighting,I > > went through and studied the applied links but being > ol'bill, I never > > bookmarked them. Then to further compound the problem, > I deleted the > > original message that it came from. In hind-sight you > could probably > > chalk this all up to felonious stupidity on my part. > > > > Bill---where its always a good day if I learn > something new! > > > > --- On Tue, 11/10/09, Amber Berglund <arberglund@... > > > <mailto:arberglund%40gmail.com>> wrote: > > > > From: Amber Berglund <arberglund@... > > > <mailto:arberglund%40gmail.com>> > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: wisteria/lighting > previous > > question/response revisited > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > Date: Tuesday, November 10, 2009, 9:30 PM > > > > I believe it was Steve who posted a link about lumens > months back when > > (I think it was maybe Bill asking) about lighting for > planted aquariums. > > Plants require 2 different spectrums of light to > properly produce > > either leaves or flowers (red is more for flower > production and blue > > is more for growth, but for the best growing you want > a mixture of BOTH > colors). > > So in reality you would want a light that appears more > brown/reddish > > in coloring and a blue/white coloring as well, but > they now have bulbs > > that have BOTH spectrums built in (I'm sure they don't > work as well as > > it would to have 2 different bulbs one mostly red and > the other mostly > > blue on the color spectrum). > > Let me see if I still have the link bookmarked. > > What I was trying to say is that Kelvin does not tell > you what color > > spectrum the light REALLY is, it's actually measuring > it's light > > output color according to how the human eyes perceive > it. So 6500 > > kelvin in general is what most plants will prefer > because that is a > > mixture of both red and blue spectrums (In MOST bulbs) > unfortunately > > not all light bulb manufactures have to use the exact > same chart for > > their colors, so they will have different colors than > another bulb > > that says it's 6500 Kelvin. what you really need to > read is the color > > chart on the box, not what lumens it says it is. > > (still searching for link, LOL). > > > > This isn't the right link but it discusses the > kelvin/lumen problems a > > little bit, still looking for the link that showed the > charts and what > > to look for in the color charts. > > http://www.americanaquariumproducts.com/Aquarium_Lighting.html > > <http://www.americanaquariumproducts.com/Aquarium_Lighting.html> > > > > Will post again when I find the other link with chart > examples. > > > > Amber > > > > Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > > > > > > I think it would be false advertising or possibly > mis-advertising > > (if they > > > do not know any better) if a company lists their > bulbs as 6500K and > > > they aren't. The Kelvin scale, just like Watts > and Lumens, are ALL > > > universal and scientifically measurable scales > BUT, as I showed > > > below, not all 40 watt bulbs put out the same > amount of light > > > (lumens) or in the same color spectrum (Kelvin > rating). All 40 watt > > > bulbs, whether incandescent, fluorescent, CFL, > LED, Halogen, etc.... > > > ALL use only/around 40 watts of electricity but > their light output > > > can vary dramatically. This is why fluorescent > bulbs are so much > > > more efficient than incandescent bulbs and CFL's > are even more > > > efficient... as a 40W fluorescent bulb puts out > > a LOT > > > more light (lumens) than a 40 watt incandescent > bulb and a 40W CFL > > > puts out more light (lumens) than a 40W > fluorescent bulb. This is > > > why the OLD "Watts Per Gallon" rule simply does > not work any more. > > > > > > BUT.. if three different companies are selling > standard T-10 > > > fluorescent bulbs with the same exact rating of > 40W, 3550 lumens and > > > 6500K rating... all three of those bulbs should > be VERY SIMILAR if > > > not identical in the way they appear to our eyes > (subject to our own > > > degree of color blindness, of > > > course!) > > > > > > In the past, things like "soft white", "warm > white", "daylight", > > > "plant grow", etc., type terms were used and are > still used but > > > those are just simple words (not subject to a > scientific scale) to > > > describe the Kelvin rating ranges but lumens are > just as important > > > since a bulb could have a 6500K rating with only > 2200 lumens where > > > another bulb could have a 6500K rating and 3550 > or 3700 lumens and > > > that bulb would put out over 50% more light > (lumens) in the same > > > color spectrum (Kelvin rating) so it > > would be a > > > much more cost effective bulb if it cost the same > amount or only a > > little > > > more. > > > > > > I'm slightly confused about the "red and blue > light for your plants" > > > as those two colors are on opposite ends of the > Kelvin Scale with > > > reds and ambers in the lower numbers and greens > and blues in the > > > higher > > numbers. I > > > think this is why you would want a mid-range > (5000K to 6500K) bulb > > > as those are generally considered "full spectrum" > or "daylight" > > > bulbs. Here's a color picture of the Kelvin > Scale, > > > http://www.bltdirect.com/images/colour-temperature.jpg > > <http://www.bltdirect.com/images/colour-temperature.jpg> > > > <http://www.bltdirect.com/images/colour-temperature.jpg > > <http://www.bltdirect.com/images/colour-temperature.jpg>> > and you can > > > visually > > > see that the 5000K to 6500K range is all about > the same "color". I > > > think this is also why Actinic bulbs are usually > higher and closer > > > to the > > 10000K > > > range and up... apparently, the Kelvin lighting > scale can go up to > > 20,000K > > > (according to this article about Reef Tanks > > > http://nh.craigslist.org/for/1423072406.html > > <http://nh.craigslist.org/for/1423072406.html> > > > <http://nh.craigslist.org/for/1423072406.html > > <http://nh.craigslist.org/for/1423072406.html>> > on, of all places, > > > Craigslist). > > > Here is the page that that the above photo link > came from and it has > > > a chart that also explains things a little more > also and talks about > > > the > > CRI, yet > > > another lighting term (Color Rendition Index). > > > http://www.bltdirect.com/lampColourTemperatures.php > > <http://www.bltdirect.com/lampColourTemperatures.php> > > > <http://www.bltdirect.com/lampColourTemperatures.php > > <http://www.bltdirect.com/lampColourTemperatures.php>> > > > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>> > > > (Links to any articles referenced in above reply > are listed on the > > > right side, alphabetically under Labels and also > under Archives by > > > Year, > > Month) > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On > Behalf Of Amber Berglund > > > Sent: Tuesday, November 10, 2009 4:22 PM > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: wisteria/lighting > previous > > > question/response revisited > > > > > > Another thing to consider is one light company's > 6500 kelvin rating > > > may not be identical to another light bulb from a > different company > > > that's rated the same. The important thing to > look at is the color > > > chart they show on the boxes, you want more red > and blue light for > > > your plants, green is not useful or harmful as > the plants reflect > > > the light back (makes them appear more green but > does nothing else > > > for them). The kelvin rating is based on our eyes > and how they > > > perceive color, so each company doesn't have to > be identical, > > > perhaps some day they will have a universal way > to measure light > > > spectrums on bulbs that is much less confusing. > > > > > > Amber > > > > > > Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > > > > > > > > OK. So you have a total of 80 watts right > now, which is just over > > > > 1 WPG, which means you only have enough > lighting for low-light, > > > > easy to grow plants. See my blog article > "Planted Tank: So You > > > > Want A Planted Tank" for links to lists of > low-light, easy to grow > > > > plants that will do OK in your tank. You > should replace those tubes at > least yearly... > > > > although some say every six months. As far > as I know, a 40W bulb > > > > is the highest wattage made for this type of > bulb/fixture right > > > > now but you can increase your lighting > > > > (lumens) and K (Kelvin) rating. See below. > > > > > > > > NOTE - below links are for > example/informational purposes only, as > > > > I know nothing about the sites. God... did I > just say that? Do I > > > > really have to add disclaimers to my posts > now? LOL Just laughing at > myself. > > > > LOL > > > > > > > > This may be your Sylvania bulb... > > > > http://www.lightbulbemporium.com/proddetail.asp?prod=F40/EX50 > > <http://www.lightbulbemporium.com/proddetail.asp?prod=F40/EX50> > > > <http://www.lightbulbemporium.com/proddetail.asp?prod=F40/EX50 > > <http://www.lightbulbemporium.com/proddetail.asp?prod=F40/EX50>> > > > > <http://www.lightbulbemporium.com/proddetail.asp?prod=F40/EX50 > > <http://www.lightbulbemporium.com/proddetail.asp?prod=F40/EX50> > > > <http://www.lightbulbemporium.com/proddetail.asp?prod=F40/EX50 > > <http://www.lightbulbemporium.com/proddetail.asp?prod=F40/EX50>>> > and > > if > > > > it is, then it's the same ratings as the > specs in the T-10 bulb > > > > that I copy/pasted below, which is a pretty > good bulb with higher > > > > lumens and the higher K rating, although not > a 6500K rated bulb. > > > > At the bottom of this page, there was a link > to this bulb... > > > > > > > > > http://www.lightbulbemporium.com/maxlite_51204_ml_f40t10_850_rscg.asp > > <http://www.lightbulbemporium.com/maxlite_51204_ml_f40t10_850_rscg.asp > > > > > > > > <http://www.lightbulbemporium.com/maxlite_51204_ml_f40t10_850_rscg.asp > > <http://www.lightbulbemporium.com/maxlite_51204_ml_f40t10_850_rscg.asp > > >> > > > > > > > > > <http://www.lightbulbemporium.com/maxlite_51204_ml_f40t10_850_rscg.asp > > <http://www.lightbulbemporium.com/maxlite_51204_ml_f40t10_850_rscg.asp > > > > > > > > <http://www.lightbulbemporium.com/maxlite_51204_ml_f40t10_850_rscg.asp > > <http://www.lightbulbemporium.com/maxlite_51204_ml_f40t10_850_rscg.asp > > >> > > > > > > > > > which > > > > has an even higher lumen rating of 3700, > although not much higher > > > > than the 3550 rating but every little bit > helps especially since > > > > the MaxLite bulb was a lower price than the > Sylvania bulb. > > > > > > > > As you will see on this page > > > > > > > > > http://www.lightbulbsdirect.com/Merchant2/merchant.mvc?page=001/CTGY/F > > <http://www.lightbulbsdirect.com/Merchant2/merchant.mvc?page=001/CTGY/ > > F> > > > > > <http://www.lightbulbsdirect.com/Merchant2/merchant.mvc?page=001/CTGY/ > > F > > <http://www.lightbulbsdirect.com/Merchant2/merchant.mvc?page=001/CTGY/ > > F>> > > > > S+Fluo > > > > > > > > > <http://www.lightbulbsdirect.com/Merchant2/merchant.mvc?page=001/CTGY/ > > <http://www.lightbulbsdirect.com/Merchant2/merchant.mvc?page=001/CTGY/ > > > > > > > > <http://www.lightbulbsdirect.com/Merchant2/merchant.mvc?page=001/CTGY/ > > <http://www.lightbulbsdirect.com/Merchant2/merchant.mvc?page=001/CTGY/ > > >> > > > > FS+Fluo> > > > > rescent > > > > > > > > The second bulb down would be similar to > yours, except we do not > > > > know the lumen or color spectrum rating on > your bulb, unless that > > > > link I gave above is actually your bulb and > then it would be the > > > > same as this one. The specs on it are: > > > > > > > > T-10 Fluorescent > > > > 40 Watts > > > > Length: 48" > > > > Medium Bi-Pin Base > > > > Color: 5000K Temperature > > > > Initial Lumens: 3550 > > > > CRI: 84 > > > > Average Life: 20,000 Hours > > > > > > > > The Color spectrum of 5000K (Kelvin) is OK > but 6500K would be much > > > better. > > > > The Lumens of 3550 is the actual amount of > *light* > > > > > > > > The next bulb down from that one is a T-12, > which will also fit in > > > > your fixture but they are bigger diameter > bulbs and this one > > > > actually puts out less light (lumens). Here > are the specs: > > > > > > > > T-12 Fluorescent > > > > 40 Watts > > > > Length: 48" > > > > Base: Medium Bi-Pin Base > > > > Initial Lumens: 2200 > > > > Average Life: 20,000 Hours > > > > Color Temperature: 5000K > > > > CRI: 92 > > > > > > > > It has the same Color spectrum but only 2200 > lumens so the above > > > > T-10 bulb has around 50% more lumens (light) > coming out of it. > > > > > > > > Now, if you scroll down to the second from > the bottom on the page, > > > > you'll see the Verilux Instant-Sun T-12 bulb > which has a higher > > > > Kelvin rating but it doesn't list the lumens > so this needs to be > > > > checked out further. While the higher K > rating is good, if it goes > > > > back down to only 2200 lumens, instead of > the 3550 lumens of the > > > > first referenced bulb above, then I would > probably go with the > > > > 3550 lumens, 5000K bulb over the 6280K bulb > if the lumens were a LOT > less. > > > > > > > > (START SNIP) > > > > Engineered to reproduce all the colors and > balance of natural > > > > light, VeriluxR full spectrum fluorescent > tubes feature Trucolite > > > > Phosphor TechnologyT which includes the use > of a stable, custom > > > > blend of earth phosphors that create bright, > balanced full spectrum > light. > > > > T-12 Fluorescent > > > > 40 Watts > > > > Length: 48" > > > > Color Temperature: 6280K > > > > CRI: 94 > > > > Medium Bi-Pin Base > > > > (END SNIP) > > > > > > > > So, as you can see, there's a few things to > look for when shopping > > > > for new replacement bulbs. Look for the > 5000K to 6500K bulbs with > > > > the higher lumen rating for the dollar and > you should be good. > > > > Note that a 3550 or 3700 lumen bulb will put > out nearly twice as > > > > much light as a 2000 lumen bulb so it can be > easy to increase your > > > > lighting without increasing the wattage. DO > NOT try to use HO or > > > > VHO bulbs... which look similar but have > much higher wattage, well > > > > over the 40W bulbs you now have. These other > HO and VHO bulbs have > > > > different pin arrangements so they will not > fit in your fixture > > > > anyhow but I just wanted to save you a > trip. > > > > > > > > Last but not least, if you're handy, you > could even take the bulbs > > > > out of your fixtures and line the insides of > your fixtures with > > > > nice and crisp and flat aluminum foil (shiny > side exposed) which > > > > will also help. Using double stick tape and > then carefully > > > > applying the foil so it does not wrinkle too > much will work > > > > well... especially if the inside of your > fixture is black. A white > > > > reflector is good but a mirrored reflector, > like that created by > > > > the shiny side of foil, is MUCH better than > a black reflector. > > > > Most black fixtures do at least have white > reflector areas. > > > > > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>> > > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>>> > > > (Links to any articles referenced in > > > > above reply are listed on the right side, > alphabetically under > > > > Labels and also under Archives by Year, > Month) > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On Behalf Of > > > > erikaandnewton > > > > Sent: Tuesday, November 10, 2009 10:17 AM > > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: wisteria/lighting > previous > > > > question/response revisited > > > > > > > > << When you say "two strips" do you > have two 4' long two-bulb > > > > fixtures already or something else?>> > > > > > > > > i have two 4' single bulb strip lights. > > > > > > > > >> What kind of lighting do you > currently have? Look at the bulbs > > > > >> and there should be some kind of > writing on one of the ends. > > > > >> Give us that info if you cannot > decipher it yourself.<< > > > > > > > > one bulb is a f40 t10 > > > > the other one is a sylvania daylight bulb > also f40 > > > > > > > > >> It's probably 21" tall, since a > common measurement for a 75G is > > > > >> 48"x18"x21" Tall.>> > > > > > > > > it is 21 inches tall > > > > > > > > erika wilmington de usa > > > > > ------------------------------------ > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when > replying, Thank You. > ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> > ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> > PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is > NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of > the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new > subject (was re: old subject)" <- > <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. > , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. > > If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of > unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by > clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the home page. > > Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com > to receive the digest, which includes up to 25 posts at a > time in a single email > > Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com > for the No E-Mail option where you will still be able to > read messages on the group and post replies. > > Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com > to receive individual e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links > > > AquaticLife-fullfeatured@yahoogroups.com > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] ------------------------------------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the home page. Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com to receive the digest, which includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com for the No E-Mail option where you will still be able to read messages on the group and post replies. Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com to receive individual e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 44417	From: cat.rose	Date: 11/11/2009
Subject: Re: Plants growing black hair - eek.

Thanks Lenny! (and Eric!) Ok... so it seems like I'm doing pretty good for now. I took out one of the light bulbs; the fishies will just have a brightly lit area and a dimly lit area for now. I suppose I could alternate which bulb comes out so the plants don't suffer. I love Eric's idea of a timer - that would solve a lot of problems. You didn't mention doing anything with hydrogen peroxide (which someone had suggested when I first posted my dilemma), so I'm guessing that's not really an option that needs to be pursued. I was actually thinking of tossing out ALL the plants and getting new ones, but seems I don't need to do anything that drastic - esp since it may upset the bioload. [:-?] The plants just look really UGLY right now. [:-&] Maybe I'll get a couple Cherry Shrimp. I am a bit nervous that they will multiply to the hundreds, tho I wouldn't mind terribly if they became snacks for the other fish. I don't know anyone with aquariums so there won't be any fish swapping for me. And I've grown quite fond of the little guys, and would only want to take them somewhere that would give them a really good home, so that definitely leaves out returning them to PetSmart. I know you told me before that the Zebra Danios would be better in a school, but since I can't fit any more fish into this tank, and I don't have anyone "suitable" to give any of the fish to I'm stuck with this little group. They all seem pretty happy tho... Appreciate all the great advice! Catherine --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@...> wrote: > > Hi Eric, > > I mentioned a clown pleco in my last reply, but in retrospect, even a dwarf > pleco wouldn't help with algae growing on a hornwort plant or most other > plants. There's nothing for them to suck on like with a broad leafed plant > and even dwarfs get too big for many plants once they mature... but they do > work on the glass and other stuff pretty good. > > You did remind me that at least with her smaller minnow-type fish, she could > go with some Cherry Shrimp and they are pretty good little algae eaters and > would be able to climb the hornwort and the smaller fish wouldn't really > bother the shrimp although if the shrimp have babies, the babies might > become snacks to the fish. They are also a VERY SMALL bioload on a tank. I > have dozens, if not hundreds in my 10G tank on a regular basis until I bring > some to my LFS once a month or so. > > All said, the best offense against algae is a good defense... keeping it > from getting out of control in the first place by proper tank maintenance, > lighting and nutrient control. > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right > side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) > > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On > Behalf Of Rev. Eric Roberts > Sent: Monday, November 09, 2009 7:47 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: Plants growing black hair - eek. > > Get a timer. They have some multi-plug timers you can get pretty cheap. it > keeps the time consistent. What would be really cool is if they had one > that can reduce and expand the time the lights are on based on time of year. > Most of the hoods you are seeing that have light fixtures use the standard > fluorescent tubes. If you are just using those bulbs and staying to a > 10-12 hour daylight span, you should be fine. You may want to look into > getting a couple of dwarf plecos to help keep the algae down. Dwarf plecos > only get a few inches long (as opposed to their regular cousins that can get > pretty huge). > > Eric > > > From: cat.rose > Sent: Monday, November 09, 2009 4:37 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Plants growing black hair - eek. > > > > Here are my answers: > > (1) I must have all boys or all girls with my Glo-Fish and Guppies because > there's been no babies that I've ever seen and I've had them since Feburary > '09. Both my platies are females, but I think Gus (thought she was a boy > when I first got her!) was prego when I bought her because she had some > babies. Only 1 survived, Sonic, who I believe is a male. Uh oh... I hope > they don't mate!! (It's cute because he must know she's his mother cause he > follows her around a lot and stays by her side! It's very "Finding Nemo".) I > have no plans to buy any more fish as I do NOT want to overstock them. > > (2) I'll step up the 25% PWCs to 2x/week, and clean the filter once/week. > > (3) When I first bought the tank/hood, all PetSmart had was the tubular > incandescent bulbs (I think 10W each?), but they would make the tank super > hot. I went to WalMart and found the florescent ones that I have now, which > are much cooler, but yes, MUCH brighter. For awhile I unscrewed one bulb but > then half the tank was dark, and it seemed the plants on that half started > looking poorly. > > I would love a different hood where I could put those long skinny bulbs that > I read about (Sorry, I don't know the correct name of those yet! I still > feel like a newbie). I've seen a couple hoods online for a 10 gallon tank, > but it's hard to tell what type of bulbs will fit them. Can you recommend a > product? > > For the first several months after I got the tank they would get about 1-1/2 > hours of light in the morning before work, then I'd turn off the light when > I left for work, and turn the tank on again in the evening for about 3-4 > hours after I got home. So that was a total of 5-6 hours of light. > > But I read somewhere about following real-time daylight hours that would > match what they'd get in the wild, and so I've been turning the light on > when I get up in the morning around 7:30-8:00am, and turning it off when I > get home from work, no later than 8:00pm. So lately the lights have been on > for about 12 hours. And maybe this is why I got the BB algae because I never > saw a lick of it when I did my other lighting schedule. > > Maybe I should go back to that? I was just worried they weren't getting > enough light. > > (4) After looking at the link you posted I believe the plants are hornworts. > I can try taking a picture and uploading it at some point also. I just got > them because they were pretty... :) And also because I thought the fish > might like to hide/chill out in the plants. > > I've pinched off a bunch of the plants that had the most algae and it's a > little better, but there's still hairs everywhere. Blech. > > Thanks so much! > Catherine > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" GoldLenny@ > wrote: > > > RE: [AquaticLife] Re: Plants growing black hair - eek. > > Reply to 5. first - > > OK. A big step is keeping the sun out. That is a BIG part of the algae > problem. Natural light is good for plants but in nature, there's a lot more > water per fish so they do not have the pollution problems that our tanks > have and even in lakes/streams with lots of algae, it's not an issue since > we are not looking into the side of the lake/stream so the algae is not an > issue like in our tanks. > > Reply to 1. - > > Your stocking isn't too bad except the GloFish (Zebra Danios) should be in a > school of six or more but that would make you overstocked but not by much if > your other fish did not breed but presuming they will, do NOT buy any more > ZD's for now... but read on for my thoughts of a plan for you. > > I'm guessing you've had more than the 2 guppies and 3 platies in the past... > right? Livebearers are NOT the best fish to keep in a 10G tank as they > easily breed and have so many babies that the bioload can become a major > water quality problem but as long as the fish keeper is willing to do the > more frequent PWC's, filter maintenance, etc., to keep up with the bioload > until the babies can be rehomed, then it would be OK. Of course, having all > males of livebearers can work in a 10G tank since you would not have the > breeding issues and the males are usually the prettier of the species > anyhow... for most species except us humans. :-( > > Did you get the Hornwort plant (if this is what you have) as a way of giving > the babies a way of hiding to avoid being eaten? I know this is a common > plant used for this purpose... but in your case, you cannot afford the added > bioload of a bunch of surviving babies. You never said what type of plant > you have. Did you look at the link I provided? Is this what you have? > > Do you know anyone else that has Zebra Danios and are understocked with > them? One or the other could take the undersized school off of the other in > exchange for other fish. This would fill up the school of Zebra Danios > without adding to the bioload of either tank. It would be better if you > filled up the school of ZD's and gave up either the guppies or platies in > exchange. > > Reply to 2. - > > While once a week is a good general schedule for 25% PWC's, in a tank that > is having water quality problems or is overstocked, then the schedule needs > to be increased. In your case, you are not overstocked, although I suspect > you were recently due to having lots of fry but I'll wait for your reply. > Your nitrates (NO3-) are not in any kind of danger zone but since you are > having algae issues, you could start doing two 25% PWC's a week until they > are down and being maintained in the 10 - 20ppm range. > > Reply to 3. - > > Since you've read my article on Filter Maintenance and considering your > slightly elevated nitrates and algae issue, you should start doing weekly > PROPER maintenance by cleaning the filter pads/cartridges in removed tank > water to get as much of the detritus off without harming your nitrifying > bacteria colonies too much. Even after you get your tank back in the shape > you like, stick with weekly PWC's and filter maintenance to keep it from > getting bad again and so that your fish are swimming around in nice cleaner > water instead of water diluted / polluted with their waste and decaying > detritus. > > Reply to 4. - > > Are these the bulbs that came with the hood or did you have two tubular > incandescent bulbs... usually 7.5W each, at first? Those 10W bulbs you now > have are CFL's (Compact Fluorescent Light bulbs) and they put out a LOT more > light (lumens) than those two 7.5W incandescent bulbs. One of those 10W > CFL's probably puts out lumens comparable to a 40W incandescent bulb or > around 20W of normal fluorescent lighting so your tank has VERY STRONG > lighting now... which is also, likely contributing to your algae issue. If > you were leaving your lights on for 10 hours a day, cut them back to 9 > hours/day for a week, then back to 8 hours/day for a week and you might have > to go down to 6 hours/day until you find the lighting schedule that works > for your plants without causing algae. Let us know what your lighting > schedule was. > > Reply to 6. - > > Your test results aren't bad but see above about your nitrate (NO3-) level > and a simple plan to fix that minor problem. > > See my questions above... mainly about what kind of plant that you have (or > take a picture and post it and we should be able to ID it for you) and what > your lighting schedule was. > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced > in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and > also under Archives by Year, Month) > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On > Behalf Of cat.rose > Sent: Sunday, November 08, 2009 9:00 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Plants growing black hair - eek. > > Hi Lenny, > > Here's the answers to your questions: > > 1. How many fish? - 2 guppies, 2 GloFish, 3 platies (one is a baby/few > months old) > > 2. How often do you do 25% PWC's? - Once a week > > 3. How often do you do filter maintenance? Once a month (and after doing it > the wrong way the first time, I read your blog & do know the proper way to > clean filter!) :) > > 4. What kind of lighting does the tank have? 2 florescent bulbs, 10w each > (the kind that look like 2 "U" shaped bulbs in one) > > 5. Does it get any sunlight? It gets some morning sun, but I can start to > keep the blinds closed. I thought the natural light would be good - oops > > 6. Test numbers a/o tonight after doing 25% PWC: > NH3 = 0 > NO2 = <0.3 > NO-3 = 40 > PH = 7.0 > GH = 7 > KH = 2 > > I hope we can figure this out - this stuff is really ugly. :( > > Thanks! > Catherine > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" GoldLenny@ > wrote: > > > > You are getting algae. Algae is perfectly normal and grows in nearly > > every aquarium but there are things you can do to keep it under > > control. It will not hurt your fish as long as it doesn't get to the > > point where it completely overtakes the tank. Algae is natural but > > when it starts to get out of control, it usually means that you might > > need to change the way you are maintaining the tank. > > > > The plant you have is probably a type of Hornwort. See this page and > > let us know if this is what you have. > > > http://www.plantedtank.net/forums/myplants/47-Tropical_Hornwort_Ceratoph\ yllu > m_submersum.html > > > > In the future, DO NOT buy any kind of fish or plant without doing > > research first to make sure you are getting something that is > > compatible with your tank, water, etc... but this is probably not an > > issue in this case. Since you have a 10G tank, see my blog article > > about compatible fish and stocking recommendations for a 10G tank so > > you will have a quick guide of which fish are compatible with your > > tank if you do decide to change things around in the future. > > > > Is the plant growing from what you can tell or is it possibly dying off? > > > > Tell us more about your tank maintenance and the tank in general. How > > many fish? What kind of fish? How often do you do 25% PWC's (partial > > water changes)? How often do you do filter maintenance? While on the > > topic of filter maintenance, read my long blog article about proper > > "Filter Cleaning and Maintenance" so you do not make some of these > > common mistakes. What kind of lighting does the tank have? Does it get > > any sunlight, since sunlight will cause algae much faster than other > > lighting so you do NOT really want any direct sunlight? > > > > Do you happen to have any test kits for things like ammonia, nitrite, > > nitrate, pH, etc? If you do, give us those test results in numbers > > (Note that OK or Safe are not numbers. ;-)). > > > > There's a lot more to ask but I'll wait for your answers. > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles > > referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically > > under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] > > On Behalf Of cat.rose > > Sent: Saturday, November 07, 2009 9:39 AM > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > Subject: [AquaticLife] Plants growing black hair - eek. > > > > Hey all! > > > > Things have been going good here with my 10 gal FW tank. About a month > > or more ago I bought sone new plants at PetSmart: don't know the name > > but they're fluffy, kind of angel hairy types, bright green. > > > > Well a couple weeks ago I was doing my PWC and noticed what looked > > like clumps of my roommate's black hair in the tank. Since I'm the > > only one who ever cleans the tank, I was very confused as to how this > happened as I'm pretty meticulous with the tank/fish. > > > > Well, it seems these plants are "growing" long black "hair"! It > > doesn't seem like the plant is dying and turning black because the > > black hairs are much longer than the green parts. It looks kind of > > gross, and the hairs are breaking off or something cuz they're not > > just on the live plants but bits scattered around the tank too. > > > > Should I immediately take out the plants and throw them out? Can it > > hurt my fish? I'm sure it's clogging up the filter, which I probably > > need to clean now too. > > > > Looks rather frightening in there now... > > > > Thanks! > > Catherine > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 44418	From: bill 1433	Date: 11/11/2009
Subject: Re: wisteria/lighting previous question/response revisited

It is what it is type of thing Len. Site says one thing but stamped or printed right on the tube is at 17 watts. Bill --- On Wed, 11/11/09, Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@...> wrote: > From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@...> > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: wisteria/lighting previous question/response revisited > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Date: Wednesday, November 11, 2009, 2:16 PM > The problem might be this statement > in the description... > > "... Hoods include 8000ºK bulb... ...20W, 24"..." > > That's getting into the higher green/blue Kelvin range... > closer to the > 10,000K actinic type bulbs... than the 5000K to 6500K > "Daylight" bulbs that > provide full spectrum lighting.  It's also only a 20W > bulb (according to the > DFS site, although you stated it was only 17W so double > check this) so it's > only 1WPG on the 20G and only 0.69WPG on the 29G.  Of > course, if the bulb > puts out a LOT more lumens (you would have to do more > checking up on the > bulb to find this), that would help a little but not > much.  I think you need > at least 1WPG to have success with low-light plants, > although floating > plants like Anacharis, Hornwort, Duckweed, etc., would be > up close to the > light and benefit from CO2 from the air and would do OK > with your > lighting... but then they would also block out the lighting > to the rest of > the tank.  > > I don't see a lot of options, as far as T-8 bulbs are > concerned for this > size fixture but I see a few different T-12's... such > as... > > (My rating is: GOOD - but see BETTER and BEST options > below... at least as > far as the bulbs on this site are concerned) > > http://www.servicelighting.com/Sylvania-22119-F20T12-DSGN50-T12-Straight-Lin > ear-Fluorescent-Light-Bulb > > Light Output:  880 lumens  > Refers to the literal measure of the light-output of a > particular light > bulb, measured in the number of lumens.  > > Energy Used:  20 watts  > "Watts" is the term applied to the amount of energy > required and used by a > particular light bulb. It is an international system unit > of power equal to > one joule per second. Contrary to popular belief, the > wattage of a bulb does > not directly measure the brightness; the "lumens" of a > light is what defines > the actual light output.  > > Average Lifetime:  9,000 hours  > This refers to an average lifetime rating based on large > quantities in test > groups. This testing takes into account usage of 3 hours > per start for > fluorescent lamps and 10 hours per start for HID > lamps.  > > Bulb Type:  T12  > The "Bulb Type" is typically a combination of the style of > bulb as well as > the width of the bulb. Usually, the first couple letters > will indicate the > type; "G" would indicate "Globe", "PAR" would indicate > "Parabolic > Reflector"... The numbers indicate the diameter of the > light bulb in eighths > of an inch; a "G40" would be a "Globe" style that is "5 > inches" in diameter. > > > Base Type:  Medium Bi-Pin  > The "Base" of a light bulb is the part that either screws > or snaps into a > receptacle. Base Type terminology may indicate common > descriptive words like > "Medium" or "Candelabra", or may even contain numeric codes > that signify > size and variety, like "E26" or "2GX13".  > > Color Temperature:  5,000K  > Correlated Color Temperature (CCT) is a specification of > the color > appearance of a lamp, relating its color to that of a > reference source > heated to a particular temperature, measured in degrees > Kelvin (K). It > generally measures the "warmth" or "coolness" of light > source appearance. > > CRI:  90  > CRI refers to the "Color Rendering Index" of a light bulb. > CRI measures a > light source and grades its ability to render the color of > objects > "correctly," as compared with a reference source with > comparable color > temperature. 100 is perfect rendering.  > > Length:  24 inches  > > > (BETTER - slightly higher lumens and higher 6500K rating) > > http://www.servicelighting.com/Westinghouse-36516-F20T12-FS-T12-Straight-Lin > ear-Fluorescent-Light-Bulb > > Light Output:  900 lumens  > Energy Used:  20 watts  > Average Lifetime:  10,000 hours  > Bulb Type:  T12  > Base Type:  Medium Bi-Pin  > Color Temperature:  6,500K  > CRI:  90  > Length:  24 inches  > > > > (BEST, of these three - around 20% higher lumens and good > 6,500K rating, > although it does have a lower CRI rating.. but still > passing) > > http://www.servicelighting.com/Sylvania-22083-F20T12-D-T12-Straight-Linear-F > luorescent-Light-Bulb > > Light Output:  1,075 lumens  > Energy Used:  20 watts  > Average Lifetime:  9,000 hours  > Bulb Type:  T12  > Base Type:  Medium Bi-Pin  > Color Temperature:  6,500K  > CRI:  76 > Length:  24 inches  > > Compare the above three to what is sold as a plant/aquarium > light by the > same company, which has a lower lumens, MUCH lower CRI > rating and does not > list the K rating other than to say "Plant" which is a > subjective rating > established by the manufacturer. > > (WORST) > > http://www.servicelighting.com/Westinghouse-36411-F20T12-PL-T12-Straight-Lin > ear-Fluorescent-Light-Bulb > > Light Output:  700 lumens (over 30% less lighting than > the 1,075 lumens bulb > above) > Energy Used:  20 watts  > Average Lifetime:  10,000 hours  > Bulb Type:  T12  > Base Type:  Medium Bi-Pin  > Color:  Plant > CRI:  61  > Length:  24 inches  > > If any of the above have much better lumens than your > current lighting... > and they all have better K ratings, then any of them would > be better for > you... but you would still be stuck with only 20 watts but > it's the LUMENS > and K rating that count more than watts.  You need to > find out the lumens on > your bulb.  Try to find it on the DFS site and let us > know. > > You should look at the AHSupply.com place for a retrofit > kit so you can use > CFL's in your current hood.  That would probably be > your least expensive > option.  I know you don't like electricity but I'm > sure you know someone > that could do this for you... on the cheap... or over a > 6-pack. > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed > on the right > side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives > by Year, Month) > > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] > On > Behalf Of bill 1433 > Sent: Wednesday, November 11, 2009 9:33 AM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: wisteria/lighting previous > question/response > revisited > > Hi \\Steve// > > At this point, and also to refresh your mind, and anyone > else on the group > that may have interest.  This all got started with my > search for a tube that > would allow me more light output from an All Glass Plastic > hood and light. > This unit comes with a "color type tube at 17 watts that is > only 24 inches > long.  This is for a 20/29-gallon tank.  I was > stupid enough to buy two of > them, one for each tank.  For further inspection here > is the light: > > http://www.drsfostersmith.com/product/prod_display.cfm?pcatid=13447 > > For those that would like to aggravate themselves further, > I can also state > that these hoods are very conducive to growing Black > Algae! > > Summoning up, I should have only purchased an All-Glass > cover and then > probably a double tube light of sufficient wattage to bring > me up to the > recommended 2 or 3 watts per gallon. > > Ya live and learn, > > Bill > > > --- On Tue, 11/10/09, Steve Szabo <steve@...> > wrote: > > > From: Steve Szabo <steve@...> > > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: wisteria/lighting > previous > > question/response revisited > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > Date: Tuesday, November 10, 2009, 11:50 PM Bill, you > got it right! The > > T numbers represent the diameter of the bulb in 1/8" > increments. A T4 > > is a bulb 1/2" in diameter,  T5 is 5/8", t8 is 1" and > a t12 is 1 1/2". > > As I recall, the F is the wattage of the bulb. > > > > Lumens, not usually stated on the bulb is the actual > amount of light > > coming from the bulb. It really does not have anything > to do with > > watts, though more watts will give you more lumens, > but, also the > > phosphors used in the bulb affect the amount of lumen > output. Lumens > > and lux are often used interchangeably, but they are > really different > > measurements. Lux is the measure of illumination over > a given area. It > > may actually be more important to aquarists raising > plants than the > > lumen output. Lux is what is measured by a light > meter, for anyone who > > happens to know what they are--not often seen with > today's cameras and > > photographers. > > > > Color temperature is important. Average daylight > (except may in > > Amber's area where they have 6 months of darkness) has > a color > > temperature of 5500-6000. > > An overcast day can have a color temperature of 6500. > As mentioned > > earlier, plants need light in two color spectrums, > and, actually they > > are rather narrow spans of wavelengths they benefit > from. > > > > I thought I had a bookmark explaining this, but I > can't find it > > quickly (over 400K of bookmarks, and things have a > tendency to get > > lost), however, some judicial Googling will gain you > the information. > > > > \\Steve// > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] > > On > > Behalf Of bill 1433 > > Sent: Tuesday, November 10, 2009 10:20 PM > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: wisteria/lighting > previous > > question/response revisited > > > > Yes, Amber > >   > > It was I, looking for the original information and > also looked back on > > \\Steve//'s post at group to try and find. Ray had > mentioned all this > > the other day saying that he thought the posting came > from \\Steve//. > >   > > I was not successful in my search.  Also, for me the > most important > > part was a link to a chart which showed you exactly, > or explained > > exactly the "T" > > factor stands for.  For instance, T-4 would be a tube > that is a half > > inch wide, or close to it-----------I think.  All > this is my own > > fault.  In my interest to acquire and learn about > lighting,I went > > through and studied the applied links but being > ol'bill, I never > > bookmarked them. > > Then to further > > compound the problem, I deleted the original message > that it came > > from.  In hind-sight you could probably chalk this > all up to felonious > > stupidity on my part. > >   > > Bill---where its always a good day if I learn > something new! > > > > --- On Tue, 11/10/09, Amber Berglund <arberglund@...> > > wrote: > > > > > > From: Amber Berglund <arberglund@...> > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: wisteria/lighting > previous > > question/response revisited > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > Date: Tuesday, November 10, 2009, 9:30 PM > > > > > > I believe it was Steve who posted a link about lumens > months back when > > (I think it was maybe Bill asking) about lighting for > planted > > aquariums. > > Plants require 2 different spectrums of light to > properly produce > > either leaves or flowers (red is more for flower > production and blue > > is more for growth, but for the best growing you want > a mixture of > > BOTH colors). > > So in reality you would want a light that appears more > brown/reddish > > in coloring and a blue/white coloring as well, but > they now have bulbs > > that have BOTH spectrums built in (I'm sure they don't > work as well as > > it would to have 2 different bulbs one mostly red and > the other mostly > > blue on the color spectrum). > > Let me see if I still have the link bookmarked. > > What I was trying to say is that Kelvin does not tell > you what color > > spectrum the light REALLY is, it's actually measuring > it's light > > output color according to how the human eyes perceive > it. So 6500 > > kelvin in general is what most plants will prefer > because that is a > > mixture of both red and blue spectrums (In MOST bulbs) > unfortunately > > not all light bulb manufactures have to use the exact > same chart for > > their colors, so they will have different colors than > another bulb > > that says it's 6500 Kelvin. what you really need to > read is the color > > chart on the box, not what lumens it says it is. > > (still searching for link, LOL). > > > > This isn't the right link but it discusses the > kelvin/lumen problems a > > little bit, still looking for the link that showed the > charts and what > > to look for in the color charts. > > http://www.americanaquariumproducts.com/Aquarium_Lighting.html > > > > Will post again when I find the other link with chart > examples. > > > > Amber > > > > > > Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > > > > > > I think it would be false advertising or > possibly > > mis-advertising (if they > > > do not know any better) if a company lists their > bulbs > > as 6500K and they > > > aren't. The Kelvin scale, just like Watts and > Lumens, > > are ALL > > > universal and > > > scientifically measurable scales BUT, as I > showed > > below, not all 40 watt > > > bulbs put out the same amount of light (lumens) > or in > > the same color > > > spectrum (Kelvin rating). All 40 watt bulbs, > whether > > incandescent, > > > fluorescent, CFL, LED, Halogen, etc.... ALL use > > only/around 40 watts of > > > electricity but their light output can vary > > dramatically. This is why > > > fluorescent bulbs are so much more efficient > than > > incandescent bulbs and > > > CFL's are even more efficient... as a 40W > fluorescent > > bulb puts out a LOT > > > more light (lumens) than a 40 watt incandescent > bulb > > and a 40W CFL > > > puts out > > > more light (lumens) than a 40W fluorescent bulb. > This > > is why the OLD > > > "Watts > > > Per Gallon" rule simply does not work any more. > > > > > > BUT.. if three different companies are selling > > standard T-10 fluorescent > > > bulbs with the same exact rating of 40W, 3550 > lumens > > and 6500K > > > rating... all > > > three of those bulbs should be VERY SIMILAR if > not > > identical in the > > > way they > > > appear to our eyes (subject to our own degree of > color > > blindness, of > > > course!) > > > > > > In the past, things like "soft white", "warm > white", > > "daylight", "plant > > > grow", etc., type terms were used and are still > used > > but those are just > > > simple words (not subject to a scientific scale) > to > > describe the Kelvin > > > rating ranges but lumens are just as important > since a > > bulb could have a > > > 6500K rating with only 2200 lumens where another > bulb > > could have a 6500K > > > rating and 3550 or 3700 lumens and that bulb > would put > > out over 50% more > > > light (lumens) in the same color spectrum > (Kelvin > > rating) so it would be a > > > much more cost effective bulb if it cost the > same > > amount or only a little > > > more. > > > > > > I'm slightly confused about the "red and blue > light > > for your plants" as > > > those two colors are on opposite ends of the > Kelvin > > Scale with reds and > > > ambers in the lower numbers and greens and blues > in > > the higher numbers. I > > > think this is why you would want a mid-range > (5000K to > > 6500K) bulb as > > > those > > > are generally considered "full spectrum" or > "daylight" > > bulbs. Here's a > > > color picture of the Kelvin Scale, > > > http://www.bltdirect.com/images/colour-temperature.jpg > > > > > <http://www.bltdirect.com/images/colour-temperature.jpg> > > and you can > > > visually > > > see that the 5000K to 6500K range is all about > the > > same "color". I think > > > this is also why Actinic bulbs are usually higher > and > > closer to the 10000K > > > range and up... apparently, the Kelvin lighting > scale > > can go up to 20,000K > > > (according to this article about Reef Tanks > > > http://nh.craigslist.org/for/1423072406.html > > > <http://nh.craigslist.org/for/1423072406.html> on, > of > > all places, > > > Craigslist). > > > Here is the page that that the above photo link > came > > from and it has a > > > chart > > > that also explains things a little more also and > talks > > about the CRI, yet > > > another lighting term (Color Rendition Index). > > > http://www.bltdirect.com/lampColourTemperatures.php > > > <http://www.bltdirect.com/lampColourTemperatures.php> > > > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> (Links > to any articles referenced in > > > above reply are > > listed on the right > > > side, alphabetically under Labels and also under > > Archives by Year, Month) > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On > Behalf Of Amber Berglund > > > Sent: Tuesday, November 10, 2009 4:22 PM > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: wisteria/lighting > > previous > > > question/response > > > revisited > > > > > > Another thing to consider is one light company's > 6500 > > kelvin rating > > > may not > > > be identical to another light bulb from a > different > > company that's > > > rated the > > > same. The important thing to look at is the > color > > chart they show on the > > > boxes, you want more red and blue light for your > > plants, green is not > > > useful > > > or harmful as the plants reflect the light back > (makes > > them appear more > > > green but does nothing else for them). The > kelvin > > rating is based on our > > > eyes and how they perceive color, so each > company > > doesn't have to be > > > identical, perhaps some day they will have a > universal > > way to measure > > > light > > > spectrums on bulbs that is much less confusing. > > > > > > Amber > > > > > > Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > > > > > > > > OK. So you have a total of 80 watts right > now, > > which is just over 1 > > > > WPG, which means you only have enough > lighting > > for low-light, easy to > > > > grow plants. See my blog article "Planted > Tank: > > So You Want A Planted > > > > Tank" for links to lists of low-light, easy > to > > grow plants that will > > > > do OK in your tank. You should replace > those > > tubes at least yearly... > > > > although some say every six months. As far > as I > > know, a 40W bulb is > > > > the highest wattage made for this type of > > bulb/fixture right now but > > > > you can increase your lighting > > > > (lumens) and K (Kelvin) rating. See below. > > > > > > > > NOTE - below links are for > example/informational > > purposes only, as I > > > > know nothing about the sites. God... did I > just > > say that? Do I really > > > > have to add disclaimers to my posts now? LOL > Just > > laughing at myself. > > > > LOL > > > > > > > > This may be your Sylvania bulb... > > > > http://www.lightbulbemporium.com/proddetail.asp?prod=F40/EX50 > > > > > <http://www.lightbulbemporium.com/proddetail.asp?prod=F40/EX50> > > > > <http://www.lightbulbemporium.com/proddetail.asp?prod=F40/EX50 > > > > > <http://www.lightbulbemporium.com/proddetail.asp?prod=F40/EX50>> > > and if > > > > it is, then it's the same ratings as the > specs in > > the T-10 bulb that I > > > > copy/pasted below, which is a pretty good > bulb > > with higher lumens and > > > > the higher K rating, although not a 6500K > rated > > bulb. At the bottom of > > > > this page, there was a link to this bulb... > > > > > > > http://www.lightbulbemporium.com/maxlite_51204_ml_f40t10_850_rscg.as > > > p > > > > > <http://www.lightbulbemporium.com/maxlite_51204_ml_f40t10_850_rscg.a > > > sp> > > > > > > > <http://www.lightbulbemporium.com/maxlite_51204_ml_f40t10_850_rscg.a > > > sp > > > > > <http://www.lightbulbemporium.com/maxlite_51204_ml_f40t10_850_rscg.a > > > sp> > > > > > > > > > which > > > > has an even higher lumen rating of 3700, > although > > not much higher than > > > > the 3550 rating but every little bit helps > > especially since the > > > > MaxLite bulb was a lower price than the > Sylvania > > bulb. > > > > > > > > As you will see on this page > > > > > > > http://www.lightbulbsdirect.com/Merchant2/merchant.mvc?page=001/CTGY > > > /F > > > > > <http://www.lightbulbsdirect.com/Merchant2/merchant.mvc?page=001/CTG > > > Y/F> > > > > S+Fluo > > > > > > > <http://www.lightbulbsdirect.com/Merchant2/merchant.mvc?page=001/CTG > > > Y/ > > > > > <http://www.lightbulbsdirect.com/Merchant2/merchant.mvc?page=001/CTG > > > Y/> > > > > FS+Fluo> > > > > rescent > > > > > > > > The second bulb down would be similar to > yours, > > except we do not know > > > > the lumen or color spectrum rating on your > bulb, > > unless that link I > > > > gave above is actually your bulb and then > it > > would be the same as this > > > > one. The specs on it are: > > > > > > > > T-10 Fluorescent > > > > 40 Watts > > > > Length: 48" > > > > Medium Bi-Pin Base > > > > Color: 5000K Temperature > > > > Initial Lumens: 3550 > > > > CRI: 84 > > > > Average Life: 20,000 Hours > > > > > > > > The Color spectrum of 5000K (Kelvin) is OK > but > > 6500K would be much > > > better. > > > > The Lumens of 3550 is the actual amount of > > *light* > > > > > > > > The next bulb down from that one is a T-12, > which > > will also fit in > > > > your fixture but they are bigger diameter > bulbs > > and this one actually > > > > puts out less light (lumens). Here are the > > specs: > > > > > > > > T-12 Fluorescent > > > > 40 Watts > > > > Length: 48" > > > > Base: Medium Bi-Pin Base > > > > Initial Lumens: 2200 > > > > Average Life: 20,000 Hours > > > > Color Temperature: 5000K > > > > CRI: 92 > > > > > > > > It has the same Color spectrum but only > 2200 > > lumens so the above T-10 > > > > bulb has around 50% more lumens (light) > coming > > out of it. > > > > > > > > Now, if you scroll down to the second from > the > > bottom on the page, > > > > you'll see the Verilux Instant-Sun T-12 > bulb > > which has a higher Kelvin > > > > rating but it doesn't list the lumens so > this > > needs to be checked out > > > > further. While the higher K rating is good, > if it > > goes back down to > > > > only 2200 lumens, instead of the 3550 lumens > of > > the first referenced > > > > bulb above, then I would probably go with > the > > 3550 lumens, 5000K bulb > > > > over the 6280K bulb if the lumens were a > LOT > > less. > > > > > > > > (START SNIP) > > > > Engineered to reproduce all the colors and > > balance of natural light, > > > > VeriluxR full spectrum fluorescent tubes > feature > > Trucolite Phosphor > > > > TechnologyT which includes the use of a > stable, > > custom blend of earth > > > > phosphors that create bright, balanced full > > spectrum light. > > > > T-12 Fluorescent > > > > 40 Watts > > > > Length: 48" > > > > Color Temperature: 6280K > > > > CRI: 94 > > > > Medium Bi-Pin Base > > > > (END SNIP) > > > > > > > > So, as you can see, there's a few things to > look > > for when shopping for > > > > new replacement bulbs. Look for the 5000K > to > > 6500K bulbs with the > > > > higher lumen rating for the dollar and you > should > > be good. Note that a > > > > 3550 or 3700 lumen bulb will put out nearly > twice > > as much light as a > > > > 2000 lumen bulb so it can be easy to > increase > > your lighting without > > > > increasing the wattage. DO NOT try to use HO > or > > VHO bulbs... which > > > > look similar but have much higher wattage, > well > > over the 40W bulbs you > > > > now have. These other HO and VHO bulbs have > > different pin arrangements > > > > so they will not fit in your fixture anyhow > but I > > just wanted to save > > > > you a trip. > > > > > > > > Last but not least, if you're handy, you > could > > even take the bulbs out > > > > of your fixtures and line the insides of > your > > fixtures with nice and > > > > crisp and flat aluminum foil (shiny side > exposed) > > which will also > > > > help. Using double stick tape and then > carefully > > applying the foil so > > > > it does not wrinkle too much will work > well... > > especially if the > > > > inside of your fixture is black. A white > > reflector is good but a > > > > mirrored reflector, like that created by > the > > shiny side of foil, is > > > > MUCH better than a black reflector. Most > black > > fixtures do at least > > > > have white reflector areas. > > > > > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>> > > > (Links to any articles referenced in > > > > above reply are listed on the right side, > > alphabetically under Labels > > > > and also under Archives by Year, Month) > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On > > Behalf Of erikaandnewton > > > > Sent: Tuesday, November 10, 2009 10:17 AM > > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: > wisteria/lighting > > previous > > > > question/response revisited > > > > > > > > << When you say "two strips" do you > have > > two 4' long two-bulb fixtures > > > > already or something else?>> > > > > > > > > i have two 4' single bulb strip lights. > > > > > > > > >> What kind of lighting do you > currently > > have? Look at the bulbs and > > > > >> there should be some kind of > writing on > > one of the ends. Give us > > > > >> that info if you cannot decipher > it > > yourself.<< > > > > > > > > one bulb is a f40 t10 > > > > the other one is a sylvania daylight bulb > also > > f40 > > > > > > > > >> It's probably 21" tall, since a > common > > measurement for a 75G is > > > > >> 48"x18"x21" Tall.>> > > > > > > > > it is 21 inches tall > > > > > > > > erika wilmington de usa > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ------------------------------------ > > > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when > replying, Thank > > You. > > > ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> > > ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> > > PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that > is NOT > > important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of > the original message > > MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was > re: old subject)" <- > > > <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. > > , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. > > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. > > > > If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead > of unsubscribing, > > you can change your delivery option by clicking on > "Edit My > > Membership" on the home page. > > > > Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com > > to receive the digest, which includes up to 25 posts > at a time in a > > single email > > > > Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com > > for the No E-Mail option where you will still be able > to read messages > > on the group and post replies. > > > > Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com > > to receive individual e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > >     AquaticLife-fullfeatured@yahoogroups.com > > > > > > > > >       > > > ------------------------------------ > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when > replying, Thank You. > ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> > ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> > PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is > NOT important to > the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original > message MODIFY the SUBJECT > LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- > <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. > , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. > > If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of > unsubscribing, you > can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My > Membership" on the > home page.  > > Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com > to receive the digest, which > includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email > > Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com > for the No E-Mail option where > you will still be able to read messages on the group and > post replies. > > Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com > to receive individual > e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > ------------------------------------ > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when > replying, Thank You. > ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> > ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> > PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is > NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of > the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new > subject (was re: old subject)" <- > <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. > , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. > > If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of > unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by > clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the home page.  > > Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com > to receive the digest, which includes up to 25 posts at a > time in a single email > > Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com > for the No E-Mail option where you will still be able to > read messages on the group and post replies. > > Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com > to receive individual e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links > > >     AquaticLife-fullfeatured@yahoogroups.com > > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 44419	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 11/11/2009
Subject: Re: wisteria/lighting previous question/response revisited

Well, if you only have 17W, then you could definitely do better with the 20W, higher lumen, better K rating bulbs that I mentioned. Considering the lumen ratings of fluorescent bulbs I've looked at, your 17W bulbs might only have 500-700 lumens where the BEST 20W bulb (below) has 1075 lumens so you could possibly increase your lighting by 50% to 100% just by changing to that bulb. At least, with that bulb, you'll be in the low-light range for plants on the 20G but the 29G will need some work. Of course, you should find out what the lumens and K ratings are on the bulbs you have so you'll know if you are getting a small jump or a BIG jump in lighting just by changing your bulbs. Check your local WalMart for bulbs. My nearby WalMart SuperCenter has a really big assortment of fluorescent tubes and they were cheaper than the Home Depot. Something else I'm thinking about for you is going with 18" light-sticks on each end of your 29G tank or front or back (back would hide it best but you decide your best aesthetics) and you'd have to make a DIY reflector for it (white poster board and scotch tape would work) and that would get more lighting down to the bottom level plants in the 29G. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of bill 1433 Sent: Wednesday, November 11, 2009 3:42 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: wisteria/lighting previous question/response revisited It is what it is type of thing Len. Site says one thing but stamped or printed right on the tube is at 17 watts. Bill --- On Wed, 11/11/09, Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@...> wrote: > From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@...> > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: wisteria/lighting previous > question/response revisited > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Date: Wednesday, November 11, 2009, 2:16 PM The problem might be this > statement in the description... > > "... Hoods include 8000ºK bulb... ...20W, 24"..." > > That's getting into the higher green/blue Kelvin range... > closer to the > 10,000K actinic type bulbs... than the 5000K to 6500K "Daylight" bulbs > that provide full spectrum lighting.  It's also only a 20W bulb > (according to the DFS site, although you stated it was only 17W so > double check this) so it's only 1WPG on the 20G and only 0.69WPG on > the 29G.  Of course, if the bulb puts out a LOT more lumens (you would > have to do more checking up on the bulb to find this), that would help > a little but not much.  I think you need at least 1WPG to have success > with low-light plants, although floating plants like Anacharis, > Hornwort, Duckweed, etc., would be up close to the light and benefit > from CO2 from the air and would do OK with your lighting... but then > they would also block out the lighting to the rest of the tank. > > I don't see a lot of options, as far as T-8 bulbs are concerned for > this size fixture but I see a few different T-12's... such as... > > (My rating is: GOOD - but see BETTER and BEST options below... at > least as far as the bulbs on this site are concerned) > > http://www.servicelighting.com/Sylvania-22119-F20T12-DSGN50-T12-Straig > ht-Lin > ear-Fluorescent-Light-Bulb > > Light Output:  880 lumens > Refers to the literal measure of the light-output of a particular > light bulb, measured in the number of lumens. > > Energy Used:  20 watts > "Watts" is the term applied to the amount of energy required and used > by a particular light bulb. It is an international system unit of > power equal to one joule per second. Contrary to popular belief, the > wattage of a bulb does not directly measure the brightness; the > "lumens" of a light is what defines the actual light output. > > Average Lifetime:  9,000 hours > This refers to an average lifetime rating based on large quantities in > test groups. This testing takes into account usage of 3 hours per > start for fluorescent lamps and 10 hours per start for HID lamps. > > Bulb Type:  T12 > The "Bulb Type" is typically a combination of the style of bulb as > well as the width of the bulb. Usually, the first couple letters will > indicate the type; "G" would indicate "Globe", "PAR" would indicate > "Parabolic Reflector"... The numbers indicate the diameter of the > light bulb in eighths of an inch; a "G40" would be a "Globe" style > that is "5 inches" in diameter. > > > Base Type:  Medium Bi-Pin > The "Base" of a light bulb is the part that either screws or snaps > into a receptacle. Base Type terminology may indicate common > descriptive words like "Medium" or "Candelabra", or may even contain > numeric codes that signify size and variety, like "E26" or "2GX13". > > Color Temperature:  5,000K > Correlated Color Temperature (CCT) is a specification of the color > appearance of a lamp, relating its color to that of a reference source > heated to a particular temperature, measured in degrees Kelvin (K). It > generally measures the "warmth" or "coolness" of light source > appearance. > > CRI:  90 > CRI refers to the "Color Rendering Index" of a light bulb. > CRI measures a > light source and grades its ability to render the color of objects > "correctly," as compared with a reference source with comparable color > temperature. 100 is perfect rendering. > > Length:  24 inches > > > (BETTER - slightly higher lumens and higher 6500K rating) > > http://www.servicelighting.com/Westinghouse-36516-F20T12-FS-T12-Straig > ht-Lin > ear-Fluorescent-Light-Bulb > > Light Output:  900 lumens > Energy Used:  20 watts > Average Lifetime:  10,000 hours > Bulb Type:  T12 > Base Type:  Medium Bi-Pin > Color Temperature:  6,500K > CRI:  90 > Length:  24 inches > > > > (BEST, of these three - around 20% higher lumens and good 6,500K > rating, although it does have a lower CRI rating.. but still > passing) > > http://www.servicelighting.com/Sylvania-22083-F20T12-D-T12-Straight-Li > near-F > luorescent-Light-Bulb > > Light Output:  1,075 lumens > Energy Used:  20 watts > Average Lifetime:  9,000 hours > Bulb Type:  T12 > Base Type:  Medium Bi-Pin > Color Temperature:  6,500K > CRI:  76 > Length:  24 inches > > Compare the above three to what is sold as a plant/aquarium light by > the same company, which has a lower lumens, MUCH lower CRI rating and > does not list the K rating other than to say "Plant" which is a > subjective rating established by the manufacturer. > > (WORST) > > http://www.servicelighting.com/Westinghouse-36411-F20T12-PL-T12-Straig > ht-Lin > ear-Fluorescent-Light-Bulb > > Light Output:  700 lumens (over 30% less lighting than the 1,075 > lumens bulb > above) > Energy Used:  20 watts > Average Lifetime:  10,000 hours > Bulb Type:  T12 > Base Type:  Medium Bi-Pin > Color:  Plant > CRI:  61 > Length:  24 inches > > If any of the above have much better lumens than your current > lighting... > and they all have better K ratings, then any of them would be better > for you... but you would still be stuck with only 20 watts but it's > the LUMENS and K rating that count more than watts.  You need to find > out the lumens on your bulb.  Try to find it on the DFS site and let > us know. > > You should look at the AHSupply.com place for a retrofit kit so you > can use CFL's in your current hood.  That would probably be your least > expensive option.  I know you don't like electricity but I'm sure you > know someone that could do this for you... on the cheap... or over a > 6-pack. > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles > referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically > under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) > > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] > On > Behalf Of bill 1433 > Sent: Wednesday, November 11, 2009 9:33 AM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: wisteria/lighting previous > question/response > revisited > > Hi \\Steve// > > At this point, and also to refresh your mind, and anyone > else on the group > that may have interest.  This all got started with my > search for a tube that > would allow me more light output from an All Glass Plastic > hood and light. > This unit comes with a "color type tube at 17 watts that is > only 24 inches > long.  This is for a 20/29-gallon tank.  I was > stupid enough to buy two of > them, one for each tank.  For further inspection here > is the light: > > http://www.drsfostersmith.com/product/prod_display.cfm?pcatid=13447 > > For those that would like to aggravate themselves further, > I can also state > that these hoods are very conducive to growing Black > Algae! > > Summoning up, I should have only purchased an All-Glass > cover and then > probably a double tube light of sufficient wattage to bring > me up to the > recommended 2 or 3 watts per gallon. > > Ya live and learn, > > Bill > > > --- On Tue, 11/10/09, Steve Szabo <steve@...> > wrote: > > > From: Steve Szabo <steve@...> > > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: wisteria/lighting > previous > > question/response revisited > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > Date: Tuesday, November 10, 2009, 11:50 PM Bill, you > got it right! The > > T numbers represent the diameter of the bulb in 1/8" > increments. A T4 > > is a bulb 1/2" in diameter,  T5 is 5/8", t8 is 1" and > a t12 is 1 1/2". > > As I recall, the F is the wattage of the bulb. > > > > Lumens, not usually stated on the bulb is the actual > amount of light > > coming from the bulb. It really does not have anything > to do with > > watts, though more watts will give you more lumens, > but, also the > > phosphors used in the bulb affect the amount of lumen > output. Lumens > > and lux are often used interchangeably, but they are > really different > > measurements. Lux is the measure of illumination over > a given area. It > > may actually be more important to aquarists raising > plants than the > > lumen output. Lux is what is measured by a light > meter, for anyone who > > happens to know what they are--not often seen with > today's cameras and > > photographers. > > > > Color temperature is important. Average daylight > (except may in > > Amber's area where they have 6 months of darkness) has > a color > > temperature of 5500-6000. > > An overcast day can have a color temperature of 6500. > As mentioned > > earlier, plants need light in two color spectrums, > and, actually they > > are rather narrow spans of wavelengths they benefit > from. > > > > I thought I had a bookmark explaining this, but I > can't find it > > quickly (over 400K of bookmarks, and things have a > tendency to get > > lost), however, some judicial Googling will gain you > the information. > > > > \\Steve// > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] > > On > > Behalf Of bill 1433 > > Sent: Tuesday, November 10, 2009 10:20 PM > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: wisteria/lighting > previous > > question/response revisited > > > > Yes, Amber > >   > > It was I, looking for the original information and > also looked back on > > \\Steve//'s post at group to try and find. Ray had > mentioned all this > > the other day saying that he thought the posting came > from \\Steve//. > >   > > I was not successful in my search.  Also, for me the > most important > > part was a link to a chart which showed you exactly, > or explained > > exactly the "T" > > factor stands for.  For instance, T-4 would be a tube > that is a half > > inch wide, or close to it-----------I think.  All > this is my own > > fault.  In my interest to acquire and learn about > lighting,I went > > through and studied the applied links but being > ol'bill, I never > > bookmarked them. > > Then to further > > compound the problem, I deleted the original message > that it came > > from.  In hind-sight you could probably chalk this > all up to felonious > > stupidity on my part. > >   > > Bill---where its always a good day if I learn > something new! > > > > --- On Tue, 11/10/09, Amber Berglund <arberglund@...> > > wrote: > > > > > > From: Amber Berglund <arberglund@...> > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: wisteria/lighting > previous > > question/response revisited > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > Date: Tuesday, November 10, 2009, 9:30 PM > > > > > > I believe it was Steve who posted a link about lumens > months back when > > (I think it was maybe Bill asking) about lighting for > planted > > aquariums. > > Plants require 2 different spectrums of light to > properly produce > > either leaves or flowers (red is more for flower > production and blue > > is more for growth, but for the best growing you want > a mixture of > > BOTH colors). > > So in reality you would want a light that appears more > brown/reddish > > in coloring and a blue/white coloring as well, but > they now have bulbs > > that have BOTH spectrums built in (I'm sure they don't > work as well as > > it would to have 2 different bulbs one mostly red and > the other mostly > > blue on the color spectrum). > > Let me see if I still have the link bookmarked. > > What I was trying to say is that Kelvin does not tell > you what color > > spectrum the light REALLY is, it's actually measuring > it's light > > output color according to how the human eyes perceive > it. So 6500 > > kelvin in general is what most plants will prefer > because that is a > > mixture of both red and blue spectrums (In MOST bulbs) > unfortunately > > not all light bulb manufactures have to use the exact > same chart for > > their colors, so they will have different colors than > another bulb > > that says it's 6500 Kelvin. what you really need to > read is the color > > chart on the box, not what lumens it says it is. > > (still searching for link, LOL). > > > > This isn't the right link but it discusses the > kelvin/lumen problems a > > little bit, still looking for the link that showed the > charts and what > > to look for in the color charts. > > http://www.americanaquariumproducts.com/Aquarium_Lighting.html > > > > Will post again when I find the other link with chart > examples. > > > > Amber > > > > > > Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > > > > > > I think it would be false advertising or > possibly > > mis-advertising (if they > > > do not know any better) if a company lists their > bulbs > > as 6500K and they > > > aren't. The Kelvin scale, just like Watts and > Lumens, > > are ALL > > > universal and > > > scientifically measurable scales BUT, as I > showed > > below, not all 40 watt > > > bulbs put out the same amount of light (lumens) > or in > > the same color > > > spectrum (Kelvin rating). All 40 watt bulbs, > whether > > incandescent, > > > fluorescent, CFL, LED, Halogen, etc.... ALL use > > only/around 40 watts of > > > electricity but their light output can vary > > dramatically. This is why > > > fluorescent bulbs are so much more efficient > than > > incandescent bulbs and > > > CFL's are even more efficient... as a 40W > fluorescent > > bulb puts out a LOT > > > more light (lumens) than a 40 watt incandescent > bulb > > and a 40W CFL > > > puts out > > > more light (lumens) than a 40W fluorescent bulb. > This > > is why the OLD > > > "Watts > > > Per Gallon" rule simply does not work any more. > > > > > > BUT.. if three different companies are selling > > standard T-10 fluorescent > > > bulbs with the same exact rating of 40W, 3550 > lumens > > and 6500K > > > rating... all > > > three of those bulbs should be VERY SIMILAR if > not > > identical in the > > > way they > > > appear to our eyes (subject to our own degree of > color > > blindness, of > > > course!) > > > > > > In the past, things like "soft white", "warm > white", > > "daylight", "plant > > > grow", etc., type terms were used and are still > used > > but those are just > > > simple words (not subject to a scientific scale) > to > > describe the Kelvin > > > rating ranges but lumens are just as important > since a > > bulb could have a > > > 6500K rating with only 2200 lumens where another > bulb > > could have a 6500K > > > rating and 3550 or 3700 lumens and that bulb > would put > > out over 50% more > > > light (lumens) in the same color spectrum > (Kelvin > > rating) so it would be a > > > much more cost effective bulb if it cost the > same > > amount or only a little > > > more. > > > > > > I'm slightly confused about the "red and blue > light > > for your plants" as > > > those two colors are on opposite ends of the > Kelvin > > Scale with reds and > > > ambers in the lower numbers and greens and blues > in > > the higher numbers. I > > > think this is why you would want a mid-range > (5000K to > > 6500K) bulb as > > > those > > > are generally considered "full spectrum" or > "daylight" > > bulbs. Here's a > > > color picture of the Kelvin Scale, > > > http://www.bltdirect.com/images/colour-temperature.jpg > > > > > <http://www.bltdirect.com/images/colour-temperature.jpg> > > and you can > > > visually > > > see that the 5000K to 6500K range is all about > the > > same "color". I think > > > this is also why Actinic bulbs are usually higher > and > > closer to the 10000K > > > range and up... apparently, the Kelvin lighting > scale > > can go up to 20,000K > > > (according to this article about Reef Tanks > > > http://nh.craigslist.org/for/1423072406.html > > > <http://nh.craigslist.org/for/1423072406.html> on, > of > > all places, > > > Craigslist). > > > Here is the page that that the above photo link > came > > from and it has a > > > chart > > > that also explains things a little more also and > talks > > about the CRI, yet > > > another lighting term (Color Rendition Index). > > > http://www.bltdirect.com/lampColourTemperatures.php > > > <http://www.bltdirect.com/lampColourTemperatures.php> > > > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> (Links > to any articles referenced in > > > above reply are > > listed on the right > > > side, alphabetically under Labels and also under > > Archives by Year, Month) > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On > Behalf Of Amber Berglund > > > Sent: Tuesday, November 10, 2009 4:22 PM > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: wisteria/lighting > > previous > > > question/response > > > revisited > > > > > > Another thing to consider is one light company's > 6500 > > kelvin rating > > > may not > > > be identical to another light bulb from a > different > > company that's > > > rated the > > > same. The important thing to look at is the > color > > chart they show on the > > > boxes, you want more red and blue light for your > > plants, green is not > > > useful > > > or harmful as the plants reflect the light back > (makes > > them appear more > > > green but does nothing else for them). The > kelvin > > rating is based on our > > > eyes and how they perceive color, so each > company > > doesn't have to be > > > identical, perhaps some day they will have a > universal > > way to measure > > > light > > > spectrums on bulbs that is much less confusing. > > > > > > Amber > > > > > > Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > > > > > > > > OK. So you have a total of 80 watts right > now, > > which is just over 1 > > > > WPG, which means you only have enough > lighting > > for low-light, easy to > > > > grow plants. See my blog article "Planted > Tank: > > So You Want A Planted > > > > Tank" for links to lists of low-light, easy > to > > grow plants that will > > > > do OK in your tank. You should replace > those > > tubes at least yearly... > > > > although some say every six months. As far > as I > > know, a 40W bulb is > > > > the highest wattage made for this type of > > bulb/fixture right now but > > > > you can increase your lighting > > > > (lumens) and K (Kelvin) rating. See below. > > > > > > > > NOTE - below links are for > example/informational > > purposes only, as I > > > > know nothing about the sites. God... did I > just > > say that? Do I really > > > > have to add disclaimers to my posts now? LOL > Just > > laughing at myself. > > > > LOL > > > > > > > > This may be your Sylvania bulb... > > > > http://www.lightbulbemporium.com/proddetail.asp?prod=F40/EX50 > > > > > <http://www.lightbulbemporium.com/proddetail.asp?prod=F40/EX50> > > > > <http://www.lightbulbemporium.com/proddetail.asp?prod=F40/EX50 > > > > > <http://www.lightbulbemporium.com/proddetail.asp?prod=F40/EX50>> > > and if > > > > it is, then it's the same ratings as the > specs in > > the T-10 bulb that I > > > > copy/pasted below, which is a pretty good > bulb > > with higher lumens and > > > > the higher K rating, although not a 6500K > rated > > bulb. At the bottom of > > > > this page, there was a link to this bulb... > > > > > > > http://www.lightbulbemporium.com/maxlite_51204_ml_f40t10_850_rscg.as > > > p > > > > > <http://www.lightbulbemporium.com/maxlite_51204_ml_f40t10_850_rscg.a > > > sp> > > > > > > > <http://www.lightbulbemporium.com/maxlite_51204_ml_f40t10_850_rscg.a > > > sp > > > > > <http://www.lightbulbemporium.com/maxlite_51204_ml_f40t10_850_rscg.a > > > sp> > > > > > > > > > which > > > > has an even higher lumen rating of 3700, > although > > not much higher than > > > > the 3550 rating but every little bit helps > > especially since the > > > > MaxLite bulb was a lower price than the > Sylvania > > bulb. > > > > > > > > As you will see on this page > > > > > > > http://www.lightbulbsdirect.com/Merchant2/merchant.mvc?page=001/CTGY > > > /F > > > > > <http://www.lightbulbsdirect.com/Merchant2/merchant.mvc?page=001/CTG > > > Y/F> > > > > S+Fluo > > > > > > > <http://www.lightbulbsdirect.com/Merchant2/merchant.mvc?page=001/CTG > > > Y/ > > > > > <http://www.lightbulbsdirect.com/Merchant2/merchant.mvc?page=001/CTG > > > Y/> > > > > FS+Fluo> > > > > rescent > > > > > > > > The second bulb down would be similar to > yours, > > except we do not know > > > > the lumen or color spectrum rating on your > bulb, > > unless that link I > > > > gave above is actually your bulb and then > it > > would be the same as this > > > > one. The specs on it are: > > > > > > > > T-10 Fluorescent > > > > 40 Watts > > > > Length: 48" > > > > Medium Bi-Pin Base > > > > Color: 5000K Temperature > > > > Initial Lumens: 3550 > > > > CRI: 84 > > > > Average Life: 20,000 Hours > > > > > > > > The Color spectrum of 5000K (Kelvin) is OK > but > > 6500K would be much > > > better. > > > > The Lumens of 3550 is the actual amount of > > *light* > > > > > > > > The next bulb down from that one is a T-12, > which > > will also fit in > > > > your fixture but they are bigger diameter > bulbs > > and this one actually > > > > puts out less light (lumens). Here are the > > specs: > > > > > > > > T-12 Fluorescent > > > > 40 Watts > > > > Length: 48" > > > > Base: Medium Bi-Pin Base > > > > Initial Lumens: 2200 > > > > Average Life: 20,000 Hours > > > > Color Temperature: 5000K > > > > CRI: 92 > > > > > > > > It has the same Color spectrum but only > 2200 > > lumens so the above T-10 > > > > bulb has around 50% more lumens (light) > coming > > out of it. > > > > > > > > Now, if you scroll down to the second from > the > > bottom on the page, > > > > you'll see the Verilux Instant-Sun T-12 > bulb > > which has a higher Kelvin > > > > rating but it doesn't list the lumens so > this > > needs to be checked out > > > > further. While the higher K rating is good, > if it > > goes back down to > > > > only 2200 lumens, instead of the 3550 lumens > of > > the first referenced > > > > bulb above, then I would probably go with > the > > 3550 lumens, 5000K bulb > > > > over the 6280K bulb if the lumens were a > LOT > > less. > > > > > > > > (START SNIP) > > > > Engineered to reproduce all the colors and > > balance of natural light, > > > > VeriluxR full spectrum fluorescent tubes > feature > > Trucolite Phosphor > > > > TechnologyT which includes the use of a > stable, > > custom blend of earth > > > > phosphors that create bright, balanced full > > spectrum light. > > > > T-12 Fluorescent > > > > 40 Watts > > > > Length: 48" > > > > Color Temperature: 6280K > > > > CRI: 94 > > > > Medium Bi-Pin Base > > > > (END SNIP) > > > > > > > > So, as you can see, there's a few things to > look > > for when shopping for > > > > new replacement bulbs. Look for the 5000K > to > > 6500K bulbs with the > > > > higher lumen rating for the dollar and you > should > > be good. Note that a > > > > 3550 or 3700 lumen bulb will put out nearly > twice > > as much light as a > > > > 2000 lumen bulb so it can be easy to > increase > > your lighting without > > > > increasing the wattage. DO NOT try to use HO > or > > VHO bulbs... which > > > > look similar but have much higher wattage, > well > > over the 40W bulbs you > > > > now have. These other HO and VHO bulbs have > > different pin arrangements > > > > so they will not fit in your fixture anyhow > but I > > just wanted to save > > > > you a trip. > > > > > > > > Last but not least, if you're handy, you > could > > even take the bulbs out > > > > of your fixtures and line the insides of > your > > fixtures with nice and > > > > crisp and flat aluminum foil (shiny side > exposed) > > which will also > > > > help. Using double stick tape and then > carefully > > applying the foil so > > > > it does not wrinkle too much will work > well... > > especially if the > > > > inside of your fixture is black. A white > > reflector is good but a > > > > mirrored reflector, like that created by > the > > shiny side of foil, is > > > > MUCH better than a black reflector. Most > black > > fixtures do at least > > > > have white reflector areas. > > > > > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>> > > > (Links to any articles referenced in > > > > above reply are listed on the right side, > > alphabetically under Labels > > > > and also under Archives by Year, Month) > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On > > Behalf Of erikaandnewton > > > > Sent: Tuesday, November 10, 2009 10:17 AM > > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: > wisteria/lighting > > previous > > > > question/response revisited > > > > > > > > << When you say "two strips" do you > have > > two 4' long two-bulb fixtures > > > > already or something else?>> > > > > > > > > i have two 4' single bulb strip lights. > > > > > > > > >> What kind of lighting do you > currently > > have? Look at the bulbs and > > > > >> there should be some kind of > writing on > > one of the ends. Give us > > > > >> that info if you cannot decipher > it > > yourself.<< > > > > > > > > one bulb is a f40 t10 > > > > the other one is a sylvania daylight bulb > also > > f40 > > > > > > > > >> It's probably 21" tall, since a > common > > measurement for a 75G is > > > > >> 48"x18"x21" Tall.>> > > > > > > > > it is 21 inches tall > > > > > > > > erika wilmington de usa > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ------------------------------------ > > > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when > replying, Thank > > You. > > > ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> > > ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> > > PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that > is NOT > > important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of > the original message > > MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was > re: old subject)" <- > > > <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. > > , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. > > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. > > > > If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead > of unsubscribing, > > you can change your delivery option by clicking on > "Edit My > > Membership" on the home page. > > > > Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com > > to receive the digest, which includes up to 25 posts > at a time in a > > single email > > > > Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com > > for the No E-Mail option where you will still be able > to read messages > > on the group and post replies. > > > > Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com > > to receive individual e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > >     AquaticLife-fullfeatured@yahoogroups.com > > > > > > > > >       > > > ------------------------------------ > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when > replying, Thank You. > ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> > ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> > PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is > NOT important to > the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original > message MODIFY the SUBJECT > LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- > <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. > , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. > > If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of > unsubscribing, you > can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My > Membership" on the > home page.  > > Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com > to receive the digest, which > includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email > > Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com > for the No E-Mail option where > you will still be able to read messages on the group and > post replies. > > Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com > to receive individual > e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > ------------------------------------ > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when > replying, Thank You. > ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> > ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> > PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is > NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of > the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new > subject (was re: old subject)" <- > <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. > , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. > > If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of > unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by > clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the home page.  > > Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com > to receive the digest, which includes up to 25 posts at a > time in a single email > > Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com > for the No E-Mail option where you will still be able to > read messages on the group and post replies. > > Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com > to receive individual e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links > > >     AquaticLife-fullfeatured@yahoogroups.com > > > ------------------------------------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the home page. Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com to receive the digest, which includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com for the No E-Mail option where you will still be able to read messages on the group and post replies. Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com to receive individual e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 44420	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 11/11/2009
Subject: Re: Plants growing black hair - eek.

Yeah, you'll want to alternate the bulb from side to side every other day or every two days or so... and maybe get an old burned out bulb to screw into the empty socket so water evaporation doesn't cause corrosion inside the socket. A timer is good to keep the lighting on schedule, especially for folks who might forget to turn it on and off at a scheduled time. With your fish, I don't think Cherry Shrimp over-population would be a problem. Hopefully, some of the babies will make it but I'm sure your fish will be greedily waiting for the eggs to hatch mini-meals from the momma shrimp. Don't do anything else drastic and give it a couple of weeks based on the info you've gotten here so far and keep us updated. It will start to die back just by reducing the lighting and reducing the nutrients. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of cat.rose Sent: Wednesday, November 11, 2009 2:58 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Plants growing black hair - eek. Thanks Lenny! (and Eric!) Ok... so it seems like I'm doing pretty good for now. I took out one of the light bulbs; the fishies will just have a brightly lit area and a dimly lit area for now. I suppose I could alternate which bulb comes out so the plants don't suffer. I love Eric's idea of a timer - that would solve a lot of problems. You didn't mention doing anything with hydrogen peroxide (which someone had suggested when I first posted my dilemma), so I'm guessing that's not really an option that needs to be pursued. I was actually thinking of tossing out ALL the plants and getting new ones, but seems I don't need to do anything that drastic - esp since it may upset the bioload. [:-?] The plants just look really UGLY right now. [:-&] Maybe I'll get a couple Cherry Shrimp. I am a bit nervous that they will multiply to the hundreds, tho I wouldn't mind terribly if they became snacks for the other fish. I don't know anyone with aquariums so there won't be any fish swapping for me. And I've grown quite fond of the little guys, and would only want to take them somewhere that would give them a really good home, so that definitely leaves out returning them to PetSmart. I know you told me before that the Zebra Danios would be better in a school, but since I can't fit any more fish into this tank, and I don't have anyone "suitable" to give any of the fish to I'm stuck with this little group. They all seem pretty happy tho... Appreciate all the great advice! Catherine --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@...> wrote: > > Hi Eric, > > I mentioned a clown pleco in my last reply, but in retrospect, even a dwarf > pleco wouldn't help with algae growing on a hornwort plant or most other > plants. There's nothing for them to suck on like with a broad leafed plant > and even dwarfs get too big for many plants once they mature... but they do > work on the glass and other stuff pretty good. > > You did remind me that at least with her smaller minnow-type fish, she could > go with some Cherry Shrimp and they are pretty good little algae eaters and > would be able to climb the hornwort and the smaller fish wouldn't really > bother the shrimp although if the shrimp have babies, the babies might > become snacks to the fish. They are also a VERY SMALL bioload on a tank. I > have dozens, if not hundreds in my 10G tank on a regular basis until I bring > some to my LFS once a month or so. > > All said, the best offense against algae is a good defense... keeping it > from getting out of control in the first place by proper tank maintenance, > lighting and nutrient control. > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles > referenced in above reply are listed on the right > side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) > > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On > Behalf Of Rev. Eric Roberts > Sent: Monday, November 09, 2009 7:47 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: Plants growing black hair - eek. > > Get a timer. They have some multi-plug timers you can get pretty cheap. it > keeps the time consistent. What would be really cool is if they had one > that can reduce and expand the time the lights are on based on time of year. > Most of the hoods you are seeing that have light fixtures use the standard > fluorescent tubes. If you are just using those bulbs and staying to a > 10-12 hour daylight span, you should be fine. You may want to look into > getting a couple of dwarf plecos to help keep the algae down. Dwarf plecos > only get a few inches long (as opposed to their regular cousins that can get > pretty huge). > > Eric > > > From: cat.rose > Sent: Monday, November 09, 2009 4:37 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Plants growing black hair - eek. > > > > Here are my answers: > > (1) I must have all boys or all girls with my Glo-Fish and Guppies because > there's been no babies that I've ever seen and I've had them since Feburary > '09. Both my platies are females, but I think Gus (thought she was a boy > when I first got her!) was prego when I bought her because she had some > babies. Only 1 survived, Sonic, who I believe is a male. Uh oh... I hope > they don't mate!! (It's cute because he must know she's his mother cause he > follows her around a lot and stays by her side! It's very "Finding Nemo".) I > have no plans to buy any more fish as I do NOT want to overstock them. > > (2) I'll step up the 25% PWCs to 2x/week, and clean the filter once/week. > > (3) When I first bought the tank/hood, all PetSmart had was the tubular > incandescent bulbs (I think 10W each?), but they would make the tank super > hot. I went to WalMart and found the florescent ones that I have now, which > are much cooler, but yes, MUCH brighter. For awhile I unscrewed one bulb but > then half the tank was dark, and it seemed the plants on that half started > looking poorly. > > I would love a different hood where I could put those long skinny bulbs that > I read about (Sorry, I don't know the correct name of those yet! I still > feel like a newbie). I've seen a couple hoods online for a 10 gallon tank, > but it's hard to tell what type of bulbs will fit them. Can you recommend a > product? > > For the first several months after I got the tank they would get about 1-1/2 > hours of light in the morning before work, then I'd turn off the light when > I left for work, and turn the tank on again in the evening for about 3-4 > hours after I got home. So that was a total of 5-6 hours of light. > > But I read somewhere about following real-time daylight hours that would > match what they'd get in the wild, and so I've been turning the light on > when I get up in the morning around 7:30-8:00am, and turning it off when I > get home from work, no later than 8:00pm. So lately the lights have been on > for about 12 hours. And maybe this is why I got the BB algae because I never > saw a lick of it when I did my other lighting schedule. > > Maybe I should go back to that? I was just worried they weren't getting > enough light. > > (4) After looking at the link you posted I believe the plants are hornworts. > I can try taking a picture and uploading it at some point also. I just got > them because they were pretty... :) And also because I thought the fish > might like to hide/chill out in the plants. > > I've pinched off a bunch of the plants that had the most algae and it's a > little better, but there's still hairs everywhere. Blech. > > Thanks so much! > Catherine > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" GoldLenny@ > wrote: > > > RE: [AquaticLife] Re: Plants growing black hair - eek. > > Reply to 5. first - > > OK. A big step is keeping the sun out. That is a BIG part of the algae > problem. Natural light is good for plants but in nature, there's a lot more > water per fish so they do not have the pollution problems that our tanks > have and even in lakes/streams with lots of algae, it's not an issue since > we are not looking into the side of the lake/stream so the algae is not an > issue like in our tanks. > > Reply to 1. - > > Your stocking isn't too bad except the GloFish (Zebra Danios) should be in a > school of six or more but that would make you overstocked but not by much if > your other fish did not breed but presuming they will, do NOT buy any more > ZD's for now... but read on for my thoughts of a plan for you. > > I'm guessing you've had more than the 2 guppies and 3 platies in the past... > right? Livebearers are NOT the best fish to keep in a 10G tank as they > easily breed and have so many babies that the bioload can become a major > water quality problem but as long as the fish keeper is willing to do the > more frequent PWC's, filter maintenance, etc., to keep up with the bioload > until the babies can be rehomed, then it would be OK. Of course, having all > males of livebearers can work in a 10G tank since you would not have the > breeding issues and the males are usually the prettier of the species > anyhow... for most species except us humans. :-( > > Did you get the Hornwort plant (if this is what you have) as a way of giving > the babies a way of hiding to avoid being eaten? I know this is a common > plant used for this purpose... but in your case, you cannot afford the added > bioload of a bunch of surviving babies. You never said what type of plant > you have. Did you look at the link I provided? Is this what you have? > > Do you know anyone else that has Zebra Danios and are understocked with > them? One or the other could take the undersized school off of the other in > exchange for other fish. This would fill up the school of Zebra Danios > without adding to the bioload of either tank. It would be better if you > filled up the school of ZD's and gave up either the guppies or platies in > exchange. > > Reply to 2. - > > While once a week is a good general schedule for 25% PWC's, in a tank that > is having water quality problems or is overstocked, then the schedule needs > to be increased. In your case, you are not overstocked, although I suspect > you were recently due to having lots of fry but I'll wait for your reply. > Your nitrates (NO3-) are not in any kind of danger zone but since you are > having algae issues, you could start doing two 25% PWC's a week until they > are down and being maintained in the 10 - 20ppm range. > > Reply to 3. - > > Since you've read my article on Filter Maintenance and considering your > slightly elevated nitrates and algae issue, you should start doing weekly > PROPER maintenance by cleaning the filter pads/cartridges in removed tank > water to get as much of the detritus off without harming your nitrifying > bacteria colonies too much. Even after you get your tank back in the shape > you like, stick with weekly PWC's and filter maintenance to keep it from > getting bad again and so that your fish are swimming around in nice cleaner > water instead of water diluted / polluted with their waste and decaying > detritus. > > Reply to 4. - > > Are these the bulbs that came with the hood or did you have two tubular > incandescent bulbs... usually 7.5W each, at first? Those 10W bulbs you now > have are CFL's (Compact Fluorescent Light bulbs) and they put out a LOT more > light (lumens) than those two 7.5W incandescent bulbs. One of those 10W > CFL's probably puts out lumens comparable to a 40W incandescent bulb or > around 20W of normal fluorescent lighting so your tank has VERY STRONG > lighting now... which is also, likely contributing to your algae issue. If > you were leaving your lights on for 10 hours a day, cut them back to 9 > hours/day for a week, then back to 8 hours/day for a week and you might have > to go down to 6 hours/day until you find the lighting schedule that works > for your plants without causing algae. Let us know what your lighting > schedule was. > > Reply to 6. - > > Your test results aren't bad but see above about your nitrate (NO3-) level > and a simple plan to fix that minor problem. > > See my questions above... mainly about what kind of plant that you have (or > take a picture and post it and we should be able to ID it for you) and what > your lighting schedule was. > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced > in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and > also under Archives by Year, Month) > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On > Behalf Of cat.rose > Sent: Sunday, November 08, 2009 9:00 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Plants growing black hair - eek. > > Hi Lenny, > > Here's the answers to your questions: > > 1. How many fish? - 2 guppies, 2 GloFish, 3 platies (one is a baby/few > months old) > > 2. How often do you do 25% PWC's? - Once a week > > 3. How often do you do filter maintenance? Once a month (and after doing it > the wrong way the first time, I read your blog & do know the proper way to > clean filter!) :) > > 4. What kind of lighting does the tank have? 2 florescent bulbs, 10w each > (the kind that look like 2 "U" shaped bulbs in one) > > 5. Does it get any sunlight? It gets some morning sun, but I can start to > keep the blinds closed. I thought the natural light would be good - oops > > 6. Test numbers a/o tonight after doing 25% PWC: > NH3 = 0 > NO2 = <0.3 > NO-3 = 40 > PH = 7.0 > GH = 7 > KH = 2 > > I hope we can figure this out - this stuff is really ugly. :( > > Thanks! > Catherine > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" GoldLenny@ > wrote: > > > > You are getting algae. Algae is perfectly normal and grows in nearly > > every aquarium but there are things you can do to keep it under > > control. It will not hurt your fish as long as it doesn't get to the > > point where it completely overtakes the tank. Algae is natural but > > when it starts to get out of control, it usually means that you might > > need to change the way you are maintaining the tank. > > > > The plant you have is probably a type of Hornwort. See this page and > > let us know if this is what you have. > > > http://www.plantedtank.net/forums/myplants/47-Tropical_Hornwort_Ceratoph\ yllu > m_submersum.html > > > > In the future, DO NOT buy any kind of fish or plant without doing > > research first to make sure you are getting something that is > > compatible with your tank, water, etc... but this is probably not an > > issue in this case. Since you have a 10G tank, see my blog article > > about compatible fish and stocking recommendations for a 10G tank so > > you will have a quick guide of which fish are compatible with your > > tank if you do decide to change things around in the future. > > > > Is the plant growing from what you can tell or is it possibly dying off? > > > > Tell us more about your tank maintenance and the tank in general. How > > many fish? What kind of fish? How often do you do 25% PWC's (partial > > water changes)? How often do you do filter maintenance? While on the > > topic of filter maintenance, read my long blog article about proper > > "Filter Cleaning and Maintenance" so you do not make some of these > > common mistakes. What kind of lighting does the tank have? Does it get > > any sunlight, since sunlight will cause algae much faster than other > > lighting so you do NOT really want any direct sunlight? > > > > Do you happen to have any test kits for things like ammonia, nitrite, > > nitrate, pH, etc? If you do, give us those test results in numbers > > (Note that OK or Safe are not numbers. ;-)). > > > > There's a lot more to ask but I'll wait for your answers. > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles > > referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically > > under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] > > On Behalf Of cat.rose > > Sent: Saturday, November 07, 2009 9:39 AM > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > Subject: [AquaticLife] Plants growing black hair - eek. > > > > Hey all! > > > > Things have been going good here with my 10 gal FW tank. About a month > > or more ago I bought sone new plants at PetSmart: don't know the name > > but they're fluffy, kind of angel hairy types, bright green. > > > > Well a couple weeks ago I was doing my PWC and noticed what looked > > like clumps of my roommate's black hair in the tank. Since I'm the > > only one who ever cleans the tank, I was very confused as to how this > happened as I'm pretty meticulous with the tank/fish. > > > > Well, it seems these plants are "growing" long black "hair"! It > > doesn't seem like the plant is dying and turning black because the > > black hairs are much longer than the green parts. It looks kind of > > gross, and the hairs are breaking off or something cuz they're not > > just on the live plants but bits scattered around the tank too. > > > > Should I immediately take out the plants and throw them out? Can it > > hurt my fish? I'm sure it's clogging up the filter, which I probably > > need to clean now too. > > > > Looks rather frightening in there now... > > > > Thanks! > > Catherine > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] ------------------------------------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. 74/`7.88.><((((:>.74/`7.88.74/`7.8><((((:> 8.74/`7.8. , .74/`7..><((((:> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <:((((><.74/`7.88.74/`7.8<:((((><8.74/`7.8. , .74/`7..<:((((><74/`7.88. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the home page. 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Group: AquaticLife	Message: 44421	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 11/11/2009
Subject: Re: Plants growing black hair - eek.

Just trim the plants (without butchering them too badly) of all the spots growing algae, that will promote new healthy growth as well. If you had too much lighting for the tank and that's why you're taking out one bulb that will help lower algae growth, if the plants start to suffer you might want to consider trying to find lower wattage bulbs that will still work with your same fixture (some are interchangeable, but not all of them). Using hydrogen peroxide will get rid of black beard algae, but if you have shrimp or snails you can't safely use hydrogen peroxide. You just need to squirt the plants or soak your decorations in hydrogen peroxide and the BB algae will scrape off easily (or fall off). Just be careful not to squirt it near fish as it can be harmful. Amber cat.rose wrote: > > Thanks Lenny! (and Eric!) > > Ok... so it seems like I'm doing pretty good for now. I took out one of > the light bulbs; the fishies will just have a brightly lit area and a > dimly lit area for now. I suppose I could alternate which bulb comes > out so the plants don't suffer. I love Eric's idea of a timer - that > would solve a lot of problems. > > You didn't mention doing anything with hydrogen peroxide (which someone > had suggested when I first posted my dilemma), so I'm guessing that's > not really an option that needs to be pursued. I was actually thinking > of tossing out ALL the plants and getting new ones, but seems I don't > need to do anything that drastic - esp since it may upset the bioload. > [:-?] The plants just look really UGLY right now. [:-&] > > Maybe I'll get a couple Cherry Shrimp. I am a bit nervous that they > will multiply to the hundreds, tho I wouldn't mind terribly if they > became snacks for the other fish. > > I don't know anyone with aquariums so there won't be any fish swapping > for me. And I've grown quite fond of the little guys, and would only > want to take them somewhere that would give them a really good home, so > that definitely leaves out returning them to PetSmart. I know you told > me before that the Zebra Danios would be better in a school, but since I > can't fit any more fish into this tank, and I don't have anyone > "suitable" to give any of the fish to I'm stuck with this little group. > They all seem pretty happy tho... > > Appreciate all the great advice! > > Catherine > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>, "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" > <GoldLenny@...> wrote: > > > > Hi Eric, > > > > I mentioned a clown pleco in my last reply, but in retrospect, even a > dwarf > > pleco wouldn't help with algae growing on a hornwort plant or most > other > > plants. There's nothing for them to suck on like with a broad leafed > plant > > and even dwarfs get too big for many plants once they mature... but > they do > > work on the glass and other stuff pretty good. > > > > You did remind me that at least with her smaller minnow-type fish, she > could > > go with some Cherry Shrimp and they are pretty good little algae > eaters and > > would be able to climb the hornwort and the smaller fish wouldn't > really > > bother the shrimp although if the shrimp have babies, the babies might > > become snacks to the fish. They are also a VERY SMALL bioload on a > tank. I > > have dozens, if not hundreds in my 10G tank on a regular basis until I > bring > > some to my LFS once a month or so. > > > > All said, the best offense against algae is a good defense... keeping > it > > from getting out of control in the first place by proper tank > maintenance, > > lighting and nutrient control. > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the > right > > side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, > Month) > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] > On > > Behalf Of Rev. Eric Roberts > > Sent: Monday, November 09, 2009 7:47 PM > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: Plants growing black hair - eek. > > > > Get a timer. They have some multi-plug timers you can get pretty > cheap. it > > keeps the time consistent. What would be really cool is if they had > one > > that can reduce and expand the time the lights are on based on time of > year. > > Most of the hoods you are seeing that have light fixtures use the > standard > > fluorescent tubes. If you are just using those bulbs and staying to > a > > 10-12 hour daylight span, you should be fine. You may want to look > into > > getting a couple of dwarf plecos to help keep the algae down. Dwarf > plecos > > only get a few inches long (as opposed to their regular cousins that > can get > > pretty huge). > > > > Eric > > > > > > From: cat.rose > > Sent: Monday, November 09, 2009 4:37 PM > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Plants growing black hair - eek. > > > > > > > > Here are my answers: > > > > (1) I must have all boys or all girls with my Glo-Fish and Guppies > because > > there's been no babies that I've ever seen and I've had them since > Feburary > > '09. Both my platies are females, but I think Gus (thought she was a > boy > > when I first got her!) was prego when I bought her because she had > some > > babies. Only 1 survived, Sonic, who I believe is a male. Uh oh... I > hope > > they don't mate!! (It's cute because he must know she's his mother > cause he > > follows her around a lot and stays by her side! It's very "Finding > Nemo".) I > > have no plans to buy any more fish as I do NOT want to overstock them. > > > > (2) I'll step up the 25% PWCs to 2x/week, and clean the filter > once/week. > > > > (3) When I first bought the tank/hood, all PetSmart had was the > tubular > > incandescent bulbs (I think 10W each?), but they would make the tank > super > > hot. I went to WalMart and found the florescent ones that I have now, > which > > are much cooler, but yes, MUCH brighter. For awhile I unscrewed one > bulb but > > then half the tank was dark, and it seemed the plants on that half > started > > looking poorly. > > > > I would love a different hood where I could put those long skinny > bulbs that > > I read about (Sorry, I don't know the correct name of those yet! I > still > > feel like a newbie). I've seen a couple hoods online for a 10 gallon > tank, > > but it's hard to tell what type of bulbs will fit them. Can you > recommend a > > product? > > > > For the first several months after I got the tank they would get about > 1-1/2 > > hours of light in the morning before work, then I'd turn off the light > when > > I left for work, and turn the tank on again in the evening for about > 3-4 > > hours after I got home. So that was a total of 5-6 hours of light. > > > > But I read somewhere about following real-time daylight hours that > would > > match what they'd get in the wild, and so I've been turning the light > on > > when I get up in the morning around 7:30-8:00am, and turning it off > when I > > get home from work, no later than 8:00pm. So lately the lights have > been on > > for about 12 hours. And maybe this is why I got the BB algae because I > never > > saw a lick of it when I did my other lighting schedule. > > > > Maybe I should go back to that? I was just worried they weren't > getting > > enough light. > > > > (4) After looking at the link you posted I believe the plants are > hornworts. > > I can try taking a picture and uploading it at some point also. I just > got > > them because they were pretty... :) And also because I thought the > fish > > might like to hide/chill out in the plants. > > > > I've pinched off a bunch of the plants that had the most algae and > it's a > > little better, but there's still hairs everywhere. Blech. > > > > Thanks so much! > > Catherine > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>, "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" > GoldLenny@ > > wrote: > > > > > RE: [AquaticLife] Re: Plants growing black hair - eek. > > > > Reply to 5. first - > > > > OK. A big step is keeping the sun out. That is a BIG part of the algae > > problem. Natural light is good for plants but in nature, there's a lot > more > > water per fish so they do not have the pollution problems that our > tanks > > have and even in lakes/streams with lots of algae, it's not an issue > since > > we are not looking into the side of the lake/stream so the algae is > not an > > issue like in our tanks. > > > > Reply to 1. - > > > > Your stocking isn't too bad except the GloFish (Zebra Danios) should > be in a > > school of six or more but that would make you overstocked but not by > much if > > your other fish did not breed but presuming they will, do NOT buy any > more > > ZD's for now... but read on for my thoughts of a plan for you. > > > > I'm guessing you've had more than the 2 guppies and 3 platies in the > past... > > right? Livebearers are NOT the best fish to keep in a 10G tank as they > > easily breed and have so many babies that the bioload can become a > major > > water quality problem but as long as the fish keeper is willing to do > the > > more frequent PWC's, filter maintenance, etc., to keep up with the > bioload > > until the babies can be rehomed, then it would be OK. Of course, > having all > > males of livebearers can work in a 10G tank since you would not have > the > > breeding issues and the males are usually the prettier of the species > > anyhow... for most species except us humans. :-( > > > > Did you get the Hornwort plant (if this is what you have) as a way of > giving > > the babies a way of hiding to avoid being eaten? I know this is a > common > > plant used for this purpose... but in your case, you cannot afford the > added > > bioload of a bunch of surviving babies. You never said what type of > plant > > you have. Did you look at the link I provided? Is this what you have? > > > > Do you know anyone else that has Zebra Danios and are understocked > with > > them? One or the other could take the undersized school off of the > other in > > exchange for other fish. This would fill up the school of Zebra Danios > > without adding to the bioload of either tank. It would be better if > you > > filled up the school of ZD's and gave up either the guppies or platies > in > > exchange. > > > > Reply to 2. - > > > > While once a week is a good general schedule for 25% PWC's, in a tank > that > > is having water quality problems or is overstocked, then the schedule > needs > > to be increased. In your case, you are not overstocked, although I > suspect > > you were recently due to having lots of fry but I'll wait for your > reply. > > Your nitrates (NO3-) are not in any kind of danger zone but since you > are > > having algae issues, you could start doing two 25% PWC's a week until > they > > are down and being maintained in the 10 - 20ppm range. > > > > Reply to 3. - > > > > Since you've read my article on Filter Maintenance and considering > your > > slightly elevated nitrates and algae issue, you should start doing > weekly > > PROPER maintenance by cleaning the filter pads/cartridges in removed > tank > > water to get as much of the detritus off without harming your > nitrifying > > bacteria colonies too much. Even after you get your tank back in the > shape > > you like, stick with weekly PWC's and filter maintenance to keep it > from > > getting bad again and so that your fish are swimming around in nice > cleaner > > water instead of water diluted / polluted with their waste and > decaying > > detritus. > > > > Reply to 4. - > > > > Are these the bulbs that came with the hood or did you have two > tubular > > incandescent bulbs... usually 7.5W each, at first? Those 10W bulbs you > now > > have are CFL's (Compact Fluorescent Light bulbs) and they put out a > LOT more > > light (lumens) than those two 7.5W incandescent bulbs. One of those > 10W > > CFL's probably puts out lumens comparable to a 40W incandescent bulb > or > > around 20W of normal fluorescent lighting so your tank has VERY STRONG > > lighting now... which is also, likely contributing to your algae > issue. If > > you were leaving your lights on for 10 hours a day, cut them back to 9 > > hours/day for a week, then back to 8 hours/day for a week and you > might have > > to go down to 6 hours/day until you find the lighting schedule that > works > > for your plants without causing algae. Let us know what your lighting > > schedule was. > > > > Reply to 6. - > > > > Your test results aren't bad but see above about your nitrate (NO3-) > level > > and a simple plan to fix that minor problem. > > > > See my questions above... mainly about what kind of plant that you > have (or > > take a picture and post it and we should be able to ID it for you) and > what > > your lighting schedule was. > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> (Links to any articles > referenced > > in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under > Labels and > > also under Archives by Year, Month) > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] > On > > Behalf Of cat.rose > > Sent: Sunday, November 08, 2009 9:00 PM > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Plants growing black hair - eek. > > > > Hi Lenny, > > > > Here's the answers to your questions: > > > > 1. How many fish? - 2 guppies, 2 GloFish, 3 platies (one is a baby/few > > months old) > > > > 2. How often do you do 25% PWC's? - Once a week > > > > 3. How often do you do filter maintenance? Once a month (and after > doing it > > the wrong way the first time, I read your blog & do know the proper > way to > > clean filter!) :) > > > > 4. What kind of lighting does the tank have? 2 florescent bulbs, 10w > each > > (the kind that look like 2 "U" shaped bulbs in one) > > > > 5. Does it get any sunlight? It gets some morning sun, but I can start > to > > keep the blinds closed. I thought the natural light would be good - > oops > > > > 6. Test numbers a/o tonight after doing 25% PWC: > > NH3 = 0 > > NO2 = <0.3 > > NO-3 = 40 > > PH = 7.0 > > GH = 7 > > KH = 2 > > > > I hope we can figure this out - this stuff is really ugly. :( > > > > Thanks! > > Catherine > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>, "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" > GoldLenny@ > > wrote: > > > > > > You are getting algae. Algae is perfectly normal and grows in nearly > > > every aquarium but there are things you can do to keep it under > > > control. It will not hurt your fish as long as it doesn't get to the > > > point where it completely overtakes the tank. Algae is natural but > > > when it starts to get out of control, it usually means that you > might > > > need to change the way you are maintaining the tank. > > > > > > The plant you have is probably a type of Hornwort. See this page and > > > let us know if this is what you have. > > > > > > http://www.plantedtank.net/forums/myplants/47-Tropical_Hornwort_Ceratoph\ > yllu > <http://www.plantedtank.net/forums/myplants/47-Tropical_Hornwort_Ceratophyllu> > > m_submersum.html > > > > > > In the future, DO NOT buy any kind of fish or plant without doing > > > research first to make sure you are getting something that is > > > compatible with your tank, water, etc... but this is probably not an > > > issue in this case. Since you have a 10G tank, see my blog article > > > about compatible fish and stocking recommendations for a 10G tank so > > > you will have a quick guide of which fish are compatible with your > > > tank if you do decide to change things around in the future. > > > > > > Is the plant growing from what you can tell or is it possibly dying > off? > > > > > > Tell us more about your tank maintenance and the tank in general. > How > > > many fish? What kind of fish? How often do you do 25% PWC's (partial > > > water changes)? How often do you do filter maintenance? While on the > > > topic of filter maintenance, read my long blog article about proper > > > "Filter Cleaning and Maintenance" so you do not make some of these > > > common mistakes. What kind of lighting does the tank have? Does it > get > > > any sunlight, since sunlight will cause algae much faster than other > > > lighting so you do NOT really want any direct sunlight? > > > > > > Do you happen to have any test kits for things like ammonia, > nitrite, > > > nitrate, pH, etc? If you do, give us those test results in numbers > > > (Note that OK or Safe are not numbers. ;-)). > > > > > > There's a lot more to ask but I'll wait for your answers. > > > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> (Links to any articles > > > referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, > alphabetically > > > under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) > > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] > > > On Behalf Of cat.rose > > > Sent: Saturday, November 07, 2009 9:39 AM > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > Subject: [AquaticLife] Plants growing black hair - eek. > > > > > > Hey all! > > > > > > Things have been going good here with my 10 gal FW tank. About a > month > > > or more ago I bought sone new plants at PetSmart: don't know the > name > > > but they're fluffy, kind of angel hairy types, bright green. > > > > > > Well a couple weeks ago I was doing my PWC and noticed what looked > > > like clumps of my roommate's black hair in the tank. Since I'm the > > > only one who ever cleans the tank, I was very confused as to how > this > > happened as I'm pretty meticulous with the tank/fish. > > > > > > Well, it seems these plants are "growing" long black "hair"! It > > > doesn't seem like the plant is dying and turning black because the > > > black hairs are much longer than the green parts. It looks kind of > > > gross, and the hairs are breaking off or something cuz they're not > > > just on the live plants but bits scattered around the tank too. > > > > > > Should I immediately take out the plants and throw them out? Can it > > > hurt my fish? I'm sure it's clogging up the filter, which I probably > > > need to clean now too. > > > > > > Looks rather frightening in there now... > > > > > > Thanks! > > > Catherine > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 44422	From: biG poppa	Date: 11/11/2009
Subject: Re: Plants growing black hair - eek.

Help Help hi guys i have green water i have tried it all move the lights up 4 inches, water changes all the water paremeters are fine........my next option is Algeafix by API...I have also lower the time the lights are on...........Added an air stone and a power jet..this is my 55g set up its floresent green....... --- On Wed, 11/11/09, Amber Berglund <arberglund@...> wrote: From: Amber Berglund <arberglund@...> Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: Plants growing black hair - eek. To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Date: Wednesday, November 11, 2009, 6:23 PM Just trim the plants (without butchering them too badly) of all the spots growing algae, that will promote new healthy growth as well. If you had too much lighting for the tank and that's why you're taking out one bulb that will help lower algae growth, if the plants start to suffer you might want to consider trying to find lower wattage bulbs that will still work with your same fixture (some are interchangeable, but not all of them). Using hydrogen peroxide will get rid of black beard algae, but if you have shrimp or snails you can't safely use hydrogen peroxide. You just need to squirt the plants or soak your decorations in hydrogen peroxide and the BB algae will scrape off easily (or fall off). Just be careful not to squirt it near fish as it can be harmful. Amber cat.rose wrote: > > Thanks Lenny! (and Eric!) > > Ok... so it seems like I'm doing pretty good for now. I took out one of > the light bulbs; the fishies will just have a brightly lit area and a > dimly lit area for now. I suppose I could alternate which bulb comes > out so the plants don't suffer. I love Eric's idea of a timer - that > would solve a lot of problems. > > You didn't mention doing anything with hydrogen peroxide (which someone > had suggested when I first posted my dilemma), so I'm guessing that's > not really an option that needs to be pursued. I was actually thinking > of tossing out ALL the plants and getting new ones, but seems I don't > need to do anything that drastic - esp since it may upset the bioload. > [:-?] The plants just look really UGLY right now. [:-&] > > Maybe I'll get a couple Cherry Shrimp. I am a bit nervous that they > will multiply to the hundreds, tho I wouldn't mind terribly if they > became snacks for the other fish. > > I don't know anyone with aquariums so there won't be any fish swapping > for me. And I've grown quite fond of the little guys, and would only > want to take them somewhere that would give them a really good home, so > that definitely leaves out returning them to PetSmart. I know you told > me before that the Zebra Danios would be better in a school, but since I > can't fit any more fish into this tank, and I don't have anyone > "suitable" to give any of the fish to I'm stuck with this little group. > They all seem pretty happy tho... > > Appreciate all the great advice! > > Catherine > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>, "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" > <GoldLenny@...> wrote: > > > > Hi Eric, > > > > I mentioned a clown pleco in my last reply, but in retrospect, even a > dwarf > > pleco wouldn't help with algae growing on a hornwort plant or most > other > > plants. There's nothing for them to suck on like with a broad leafed > plant > > and even dwarfs get too big for many plants once they mature... but > they do > > work on the glass and other stuff pretty good. > > > > You did remind me that at least with her smaller minnow-type fish, she > could > > go with some Cherry Shrimp and they are pretty good little algae > eaters and > > would be able to climb the hornwort and the smaller fish wouldn't > really > > bother the shrimp although if the shrimp have babies, the babies might > > become snacks to the fish. They are also a VERY SMALL bioload on a > tank. I > > have dozens, if not hundreds in my 10G tank on a regular basis until I > bring > > some to my LFS once a month or so. > > > > All said, the best offense against algae is a good defense... keeping > it > > from getting out of control in the first place by proper tank > maintenance, > > lighting and nutrient control. > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the > right > > side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, > Month) > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] > On > > Behalf Of Rev. Eric Roberts > > Sent: Monday, November 09, 2009 7:47 PM > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: Plants growing black hair - eek. > > > > Get a timer. They have some multi-plug timers you can get pretty > cheap. it > > keeps the time consistent. What would be really cool is if they had > one > > that can reduce and expand the time the lights are on based on time of > year. > > Most of the hoods you are seeing that have light fixtures use the > standard > > fluorescent tubes. If you are just using those bulbs and staying to > a > > 10-12 hour daylight span, you should be fine. You may want to look > into > > getting a couple of dwarf plecos to help keep the algae down. Dwarf > plecos > > only get a few inches long (as opposed to their regular cousins that > can get > > pretty huge). > > > > Eric > > > > > > From: cat.rose > > Sent: Monday, November 09, 2009 4:37 PM > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Plants growing black hair - eek. > > > > > > > > Here are my answers: > > > > (1) I must have all boys or all girls with my Glo-Fish and Guppies > because > > there's been no babies that I've ever seen and I've had them since > Feburary > > '09. Both my platies are females, but I think Gus (thought she was a > boy > > when I first got her!) was prego when I bought her because she had > some > > babies. Only 1 survived, Sonic, who I believe is a male. Uh oh... I > hope > > they don't mate!! (It's cute because he must know she's his mother > cause he > > follows her around a lot and stays by her side! It's very "Finding > Nemo".) I > > have no plans to buy any more fish as I do NOT want to overstock them. > > > > (2) I'll step up the 25% PWCs to 2x/week, and clean the filter > once/week. > > > > (3) When I first bought the tank/hood, all PetSmart had was the > tubular > > incandescent bulbs (I think 10W each?), but they would make the tank > super > > hot. I went to WalMart and found the florescent ones that I have now, > which > > are much cooler, but yes, MUCH brighter. For awhile I unscrewed one > bulb but > > then half the tank was dark, and it seemed the plants on that half > started > > looking poorly. > > > > I would love a different hood where I could put those long skinny > bulbs that > > I read about (Sorry, I don't know the correct name of those yet! I > still > > feel like a newbie). I've seen a couple hoods online for a 10 gallon > tank, > > but it's hard to tell what type of bulbs will fit them. Can you > recommend a > > product? > > > > For the first several months after I got the tank they would get about > 1-1/2 > > hours of light in the morning before work, then I'd turn off the light > when > > I left for work, and turn the tank on again in the evening for about > 3-4 > > hours after I got home. So that was a total of 5-6 hours of light. > > > > But I read somewhere about following real-time daylight hours that > would > > match what they'd get in the wild, and so I've been turning the light > on > > when I get up in the morning around 7:30-8:00am, and turning it off > when I > > get home from work, no later than 8:00pm. So lately the lights have > been on > > for about 12 hours. And maybe this is why I got the BB algae because I > never > > saw a lick of it when I did my other lighting schedule. > > > > Maybe I should go back to that? I was just worried they weren't > getting > > enough light. > > > > (4) After looking at the link you posted I believe the plants are > hornworts. > > I can try taking a picture and uploading it at some point also. I just > got > > them because they were pretty... :) And also because I thought the > fish > > might like to hide/chill out in the plants. > > > > I've pinched off a bunch of the plants that had the most algae and > it's a > > little better, but there's still hairs everywhere. Blech. > > > > Thanks so much! > > Catherine > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>, "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" > GoldLenny@ > > wrote: > > > > > RE: [AquaticLife] Re: Plants growing black hair - eek. > > > > Reply to 5. first - > > > > OK. A big step is keeping the sun out. That is a BIG part of the algae > > problem. Natural light is good for plants but in nature, there's a lot > more > > water per fish so they do not have the pollution problems that our > tanks > > have and even in lakes/streams with lots of algae, it's not an issue > since > > we are not looking into the side of the lake/stream so the algae is > not an > > issue like in our tanks. > > > > Reply to 1. - > > > > Your stocking isn't too bad except the GloFish (Zebra Danios) should > be in a > > school of six or more but that would make you overstocked but not by > much if > > your other fish did not breed but presuming they will, do NOT buy any > more > > ZD's for now... but read on for my thoughts of a plan for you. > > > > I'm guessing you've had more than the 2 guppies and 3 platies in the > past... > > right? Livebearers are NOT the best fish to keep in a 10G tank as they > > easily breed and have so many babies that the bioload can become a > major > > water quality problem but as long as the fish keeper is willing to do > the > > more frequent PWC's, filter maintenance, etc., to keep up with the > bioload > > until the babies can be rehomed, then it would be OK. Of course, > having all > > males of livebearers can work in a 10G tank since you would not have > the > > breeding issues and the males are usually the prettier of the species > > anyhow... for most species except us humans. :-( > > > > Did you get the Hornwort plant (if this is what you have) as a way of > giving > > the babies a way of hiding to avoid being eaten? I know this is a > common > > plant used for this purpose... but in your case, you cannot afford the > added > > bioload of a bunch of surviving babies. You never said what type of > plant > > you have. Did you look at the link I provided? Is this what you have? > > > > Do you know anyone else that has Zebra Danios and are understocked > with > > them? One or the other could take the undersized school off of the > other in > > exchange for other fish. This would fill up the school of Zebra Danios > > without adding to the bioload of either tank. It would be better if > you > > filled up the school of ZD's and gave up either the guppies or platies > in > > exchange. > > > > Reply to 2. - > > > > While once a week is a good general schedule for 25% PWC's, in a tank > that > > is having water quality problems or is overstocked, then the schedule > needs > > to be increased. In your case, you are not overstocked, although I > suspect > > you were recently due to having lots of fry but I'll wait for your > reply. > > Your nitrates (NO3-) are not in any kind of danger zone but since you > are > > having algae issues, you could start doing two 25% PWC's a week until > they > > are down and being maintained in the 10 - 20ppm range. > > > > Reply to 3. - > > > > Since you've read my article on Filter Maintenance and considering > your > > slightly elevated nitrates and algae issue, you should start doing > weekly > > PROPER maintenance by cleaning the filter pads/cartridges in removed > tank > > water to get as much of the detritus off without harming your > nitrifying > > bacteria colonies too much. Even after you get your tank back in the > shape > > you like, stick with weekly PWC's and filter maintenance to keep it > from > > getting bad again and so that your fish are swimming around in nice > cleaner > > water instead of water diluted / polluted with their waste and > decaying > > detritus. > > > > Reply to 4. - > > > > Are these the bulbs that came with the hood or did you have two > tubular > > incandescent bulbs... usually 7.5W each, at first? Those 10W bulbs you > now > > have are CFL's (Compact Fluorescent Light bulbs) and they put out a > LOT more > > light (lumens) than those two 7.5W incandescent bulbs. One of those > 10W > > CFL's probably puts out lumens comparable to a 40W incandescent bulb > or > > around 20W of normal fluorescent lighting so your tank has VERY STRONG > > lighting now... which is also, likely contributing to your algae > issue. If > > you were leaving your lights on for 10 hours a day, cut them back to 9 > > hours/day for a week, then back to 8 hours/day for a week and you > might have > > to go down to 6 hours/day until you find the lighting schedule that > works > > for your plants without causing algae. Let us know what your lighting > > schedule was. > > > > Reply to 6. - > > > > Your test results aren't bad but see above about your nitrate (NO3-) > level > > and a simple plan to fix that minor problem. > > > > See my questions above... mainly about what kind of plant that you > have (or > > take a picture and post it and we should be able to ID it for you) and > what > > your lighting schedule was. > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> (Links to any articles > referenced > > in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under > Labels and > > also under Archives by Year, Month) > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] > On > > Behalf Of cat.rose > > Sent: Sunday, November 08, 2009 9:00 PM > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Plants growing black hair - eek. > > > > Hi Lenny, > > > > Here's the answers to your questions: > > > > 1. How many fish? - 2 guppies, 2 GloFish, 3 platies (one is a baby/few > > months old) > > > > 2. How often do you do 25% PWC's? - Once a week > > > > 3. How often do you do filter maintenance? Once a month (and after > doing it > > the wrong way the first time, I read your blog & do know the proper > way to > > clean filter!) :) > > > > 4. What kind of lighting does the tank have? 2 florescent bulbs, 10w > each > > (the kind that look like 2 "U" shaped bulbs in one) > > > > 5. Does it get any sunlight? It gets some morning sun, but I can start > to > > keep the blinds closed. I thought the natural light would be good - > oops > > > > 6. Test numbers a/o tonight after doing 25% PWC: > > NH3 = 0 > > NO2 = <0.3 > > NO-3 = 40 > > PH = 7.0 > > GH = 7 > > KH = 2 > > > > I hope we can figure this out - this stuff is really ugly. :( > > > > Thanks! > > Catherine > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>, "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" > GoldLenny@ > > wrote: > > > > > > You are getting algae. Algae is perfectly normal and grows in nearly > > > every aquarium but there are things you can do to keep it under > > > control. It will not hurt your fish as long as it doesn't get to the > > > point where it completely overtakes the tank. Algae is natural but > > > when it starts to get out of control, it usually means that you > might > > > need to change the way you are maintaining the tank. > > > > > > The plant you have is probably a type of Hornwort. See this page and > > > let us know if this is what you have. > > > > > > http://www.plantedtank.net/forums/myplants/47-Tropical_Hornwort_Ceratoph\ > yllu > <http://www.plantedtank.net/forums/myplants/47-Tropical_Hornwort_Ceratophyllu> > > m_submersum.html > > > > > > In the future, DO NOT buy any kind of fish or plant without doing > > > research first to make sure you are getting something that is > > > compatible with your tank, water, etc... but this is probably not an > > > issue in this case. Since you have a 10G tank, see my blog article > > > about compatible fish and stocking recommendations for a 10G tank so > > > you will have a quick guide of which fish are compatible with your > > > tank if you do decide to change things around in the future. > > > > > > Is the plant growing from what you can tell or is it possibly dying > off? > > > > > > Tell us more about your tank maintenance and the tank in general. > How > > > many fish? What kind of fish? How often do you do 25% PWC's (partial > > > water changes)? How often do you do filter maintenance? While on the > > > topic of filter maintenance, read my long blog article about proper > > > "Filter Cleaning and Maintenance" so you do not make some of these > > > common mistakes. What kind of lighting does the tank have? Does it > get > > > any sunlight, since sunlight will cause algae much faster than other > > > lighting so you do NOT really want any direct sunlight? > > > > > > Do you happen to have any test kits for things like ammonia, > nitrite, > > > nitrate, pH, etc? If you do, give us those test results in numbers > > > (Note that OK or Safe are not numbers. ;-)). > > > > > > There's a lot more to ask but I'll wait for your answers. > > > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> (Links to any articles > > > referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, > alphabetically > > > under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) > > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] > > > On Behalf Of cat.rose > > > Sent: Saturday, November 07, 2009 9:39 AM > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > Subject: [AquaticLife] Plants growing black hair - eek. > > > > > > Hey all! > > > > > > Things have been going good here with my 10 gal FW tank. About a > month > > > or more ago I bought sone new plants at PetSmart: don't know the > name > > > but they're fluffy, kind of angel hairy types, bright green. > > > > > > Well a couple weeks ago I was doing my PWC and noticed what looked > > > like clumps of my roommate's black hair in the tank. Since I'm the > > > only one who ever cleans the tank, I was very confused as to how > this > > happened as I'm pretty meticulous with the tank/fish. > > > > > > Well, it seems these plants are "growing" long black "hair"! It > > > doesn't seem like the plant is dying and turning black because the > > > black hairs are much longer than the green parts. It looks kind of > > > gross, and the hairs are breaking off or something cuz they're not > > > just on the live plants but bits scattered around the tank too. > > > > > > Should I immediately take out the plants and throw them out? Can it > > > hurt my fish? I'm sure it's clogging up the filter, which I probably > > > need to clean now too. > > > > > > Looks rather frightening in there now... > > > > > > Thanks! > > > Catherine > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > ------------------------------------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the home page.  Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com to receive the digest, which includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com for the No E-Mail option where you will still be able to read messages on the group and post replies. Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com to receive individual e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 44423	From: Donna Ransome	Date: 11/11/2009
Subject: Re: Why am I getting these weird messages to this address?

sentto-8495157-44406-1257953244-djransome=optonline.net@... .com It seems to be associated with aquatic life. This one eventually was from Bill with a bunch of stuff in the header first. _____ From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Steve Szabo Sent: Wednesday, November 11, 2009 6:43 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: wisteria/lighting previous question/response revisited Lenny, I don't need no steenkin' hack. In Firefox, the bookmarks are kept as they should be, as one file, not each bookmark in a separate file gobbling up disk space as IE does. It also eats up space in the MFT (Master File Table). For those who do not know about such things, when a drive is formatted to hold data, it is broken up into groups of sectors, known as clusters, the value of which defaults, in Windows, to 4K (4096 bytes). They can be any value from 512 bytes to at least 32K (it may be even larger now, with NTFS (new technology file system, but 32K was the limit under 16 bit DOS). When a file is written to disk, using 4K cluster size for the example, it takes up as many clusters as needed. So, a file that is 32K in size would use 8 clusters (4K x 8). A file that is 28K would use 7 clusters (28 k/4K=7). However, a file that is 29K would use 8 clusters. It would fill the 7 clusters, with an extra 1024 bytes, which are placed in the next, or 8th cluster, leaving 3K of that cluster as being unavailable to another file. Consider now, that each bookmark is generally less than 1K (1024 bytes). When you are using IE (Internet Explorer), that means that you are wasting 3K of each available cluster to store the bookmark as a file. Let us assume you have 400 bookmarks. I am sure you can do the math. That would mean that you have 400 files, each taking up 4K of disk space, meaning that you are using 1600K to store those files. This means that 400 entries are placed in the MFT. In the case of Firefox, and other browsers not based on IE, all the bookmarks are stored in a file. Say that you have the same 400 bookmarks, using 1K as the size of each bookmark, on average, that would mean that you have a file that is 400K in size, which (conveniently, it seems) works out to a 100K file, stored in 25 clusters and 1 entry in the MFT. A great savings in disk space. There are other issues to consider here as well, but I am sure you are plenty bored by know. However, (oh no!, he's going to say more even though he said he was done) please keep in mind that drive manufacturers use a decimal system to calculate drive sizes, so that 250GB drive you have in your box is not 250GB to the computer, which uses a binary system to calculate drive size. That is why, when you look at the drive size through your operating system, the drive appears to be smaller than advertised. It's kind of like that 55 gallon tank that actually holds less than 55 gallons. Tank measurements are measuring the outside dimensions of the tank not the inside dimensions, plus, none of use fills a tank right to the top of the tank, giving us an actual capacity of somewhat less than 55 gallons, and that is before we add substrate and decorations, fish, and plants to the tank, each displacing a certain amount of water. (You may insert your own Archimedes joke here.) (Notice how I actually brought this back onto an aquarium topic?) \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Lenny V. aka GoldLenny Sent: Wednesday, November 11, 2009 1:30 AM To: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: wisteria/lighting previous question/response revisited Yeah... I keep kind of hoping that Google will eventually provide an online "Bookmarks/Favorites" service or homepage add-in, which would also include a search feature and maybe even a way to scan for bad links in the Bookmarks/Favorites instead of finding out when you go to use that long kept bookmark/favorite and the site no longer exists... of course, there's always the Wayback Machine at the Internet Archive http://www.archive. <http://www.archive.org> org to find websites/pages that have disappeared from the net. I regularly go into my IE Favorites and use the "Organize Favorites" feature to move things around but also will use Windows Explorer, C:\Documents and Settings\Owner\Favorites\, to look at my Favorites folder and drag and drop, move and rename things around in there. Then, there is this Registry hack to mass sort the Favorites folder, sub-folders and files, instead of having to "Sort By Name" inside each folder. From http://www.theelder <http://www.theeldergeek.com/sort_favorites_menu_alphabetical.htm> geek.com/sort_favorites_menu_alphabetical.htm (with some added instructions by me to clarify some things). Sort Favorites Menu Alphabetically [Start] [Run] [Regedit] Registry Key: HKEY_CURRENT_USER\Software\Microsoft\Windows\CurrentVersion\Explorer\MenuOrd er\Favorites (Click on Favorites to highlight, then in the view panel) Right click the Favorites key *Order* and click Delete Exit registry and reboot. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Steve Szabo Sent: Tuesday, November 10, 2009 11:43 PM To: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: wisteria/lighting previous question/response revisited Lenny, I have a couple of problems. First, I do have a lot of folders and sub folders for things, and try to use them. However, I can also be pressed for time, and just bookmark it, thinking I'll fix it later. Somehow, later comes even later than one would expect, and when it does arrive, I do a bunch, but never finish going through the list. The other problem is that what made sense at the time, may not make sense when I am looking for the bookmark, possible because I a thinking about the topic in a different way than when I bookmarked the site. It is kind of like how one searches the web. If your first key words do not provide what you are looking for, you modify those terms and search again. Same topic, a bit different way of looking at it. Eventually, you will get what you want. What I probably need is a bookmark search engine. For those of you who were born and weaned with Windows, bookmarks is the correct term, not Microsoft's Favorites, though, I must admit, it is possible to have favorite bookmarks. \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Lenny V. aka GoldLenny Sent: Tuesday, November 10, 2009 11:57 PM To: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: wisteria/lighting previous question/response revisited Bookmarks and Favorites are filing systems... if you don't know how/where it's filed, you won't find it anyhow. I have an extensive Favorites folder with dozens of primary folders and then dozens if not hundreds of sub-folders and sub-sub-folders, for example, under Favorites, I have 59 primary folders and one of them is called Aquarium Sites, then, in that folder, I have 44 alphabetized sub-folders just in that folder, from Additives and Algae to Tutorials-Quizzes and UGF Filters (no V,W,X,Y,Z sub-folders under Aquarium... not sure why not). Then in the Algae folder, I have 7 sub-sub-folders dealing with topics such as Algae Eaters, Allelopathic Control, Diatoms-Brown Algae, Hair Algae, Hydrogen Peroxide, Pond Algae, SeaChem Flourish Excel For Treating Algae and then 11 other favorites about Algae in general, for a total of 48 links, just about Algae. My Favorites folder, when looking at its Properties, is 1.41MB in size and consists of 2,057 files (links) and 306 folders (incl. sub and sub-sub folders) in totality. Many years of surfing and saving and starting off with an organizational plan from the start makes it easy for me to navigate and find things easily. My Favorites is like a mini-Google. ;-) I have been toying around with the idea of using a web resource to keep my Favorites folder online so I can sync it with all of my computers and/or just use it as an online Favorites folder that I can log into from any computer. For now, I use LogMeIn (Free) to connect to my main computer from my laptop when I'm out in the streets playing... oops.. I meant working. But I don't think I'd share my Favorites or then I'd have to go in and edit out all my favorite porn links... well, maybe not for Bill. LOL Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Amber Berglund Sent: Tuesday, November 10, 2009 10:25 PM To: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: wisteria/lighting previous question/response revisited No worries Bill, I do the same thing, maybe Lenny will be so kind as to send us all his bookmarks? LOL Amber bill 1433 wrote: > > Yes, Amber > > It was I, looking for the original information and also looked back on > \\Steve//'s post at group to try and find. Ray had mentioned all this > the other day saying that he thought the posting came from \\Steve//. > > I was not successful in my search. Also, for me the most important > part was a link to a chart which showed you exactly, or explained > exactly the "T" factor stands for. For instance, T-4 would be a tube > that is a half inch wide, or close to it-----------I think. All this > is my own fault. In my interest to acquire and learn about lighting,I > went through and studied the applied links but being ol'bill, I never > bookmarked them. Then to further compound the problem, I deleted the > original message that it came from. In hind-sight you could probably > chalk this all up to felonious stupidity on my part. > > Bill---where its always a good day if I learn something new! > > --- On Tue, 11/10/09, Amber Berglund <arberglund@gmail. <mailto:arberglund%40gmail.com> com > <mailto:arberglund%40gmail.com>> wrote: > > From: Amber Berglund <arberglund@gmail. <mailto:arberglund%40gmail.com> com > <mailto:arberglund%40gmail.com>> > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: wisteria/lighting previous > question/response revisited > To: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Date: Tuesday, November 10, 2009, 9:30 PM > > I believe it was Steve who posted a link about lumens months back when > (I think it was maybe Bill asking) about lighting for planted aquariums. > Plants require 2 different spectrums of light to properly produce > either leaves or flowers (red is more for flower production and blue > is more for growth, but for the best growing you want a mixture of BOTH colors). > So in reality you would want a light that appears more brown/reddish > in coloring and a blue/white coloring as well, but they now have bulbs > that have BOTH spectrums built in (I'm sure they don't work as well as > it would to have 2 different bulbs one mostly red and the other mostly > blue on the color spectrum). > Let me see if I still have the link bookmarked. > What I was trying to say is that Kelvin does not tell you what color > spectrum the light REALLY is, it's actually measuring it's light > output color according to how the human eyes perceive it. So 6500 > kelvin in general is what most plants will prefer because that is a > mixture of both red and blue spectrums (In MOST bulbs) unfortunately > not all light bulb manufactures have to use the exact same chart for > their colors, so they will have different colors than another bulb > that says it's 6500 Kelvin. what you really need to read is the color > chart on the box, not what lumens it says it is. > (still searching for link, LOL). > > This isn't the right link but it discusses the kelvin/lumen problems a > little bit, still looking for the link that showed the charts and what > to look for in the color charts. > http://www.american <http://www.americanaquariumproducts.com/Aquarium_Lighting.html> aquariumproducts.com/Aquarium_Lighting.html > <http://www.american <http://www.americanaquariumproducts.com/Aquarium_Lighting.html> aquariumproducts.com/Aquarium_Lighting.html> > > Will post again when I find the other link with chart examples. > > Amber > > Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > > > > I think it would be false advertising or possibly mis-advertising > (if they > > do not know any better) if a company lists their bulbs as 6500K and > > they aren't. The Kelvin scale, just like Watts and Lumens, are ALL > > universal and scientifically measurable scales BUT, as I showed > > below, not all 40 watt bulbs put out the same amount of light > > (lumens) or in the same color spectrum (Kelvin rating). All 40 watt > > bulbs, whether incandescent, fluorescent, CFL, LED, Halogen, etc.... > > ALL use only/around 40 watts of electricity but their light output > > can vary dramatically. This is why fluorescent bulbs are so much > > more efficient than incandescent bulbs and CFL's are even more > > efficient... as a 40W fluorescent bulb puts out > a LOT > > more light (lumens) than a 40 watt incandescent bulb and a 40W CFL > > puts out more light (lumens) than a 40W fluorescent bulb. This is > > why the OLD "Watts Per Gallon" rule simply does not work any more. > > > > BUT.. if three different companies are selling standard T-10 > > fluorescent bulbs with the same exact rating of 40W, 3550 lumens and > > 6500K rating... all three of those bulbs should be VERY SIMILAR if > > not identical in the way they appear to our eyes (subject to our own > > degree of color blindness, of > > course!) > > > > In the past, things like "soft white", "warm white", "daylight", > > "plant grow", etc., type terms were used and are still used but > > those are just simple words (not subject to a scientific scale) to > > describe the Kelvin rating ranges but lumens are just as important > > since a bulb could have a 6500K rating with only 2200 lumens where > > another bulb could have a 6500K rating and 3550 or 3700 lumens and > > that bulb would put out over 50% more light (lumens) in the same > > color spectrum (Kelvin rating) so it > would be a > > much more cost effective bulb if it cost the same amount or only a > little > > more. > > > > I'm slightly confused about the "red and blue light for your plants" > > as those two colors are on opposite ends of the Kelvin Scale with > > reds and ambers in the lower numbers and greens and blues in the > > higher > numbers. I > > think this is why you would want a mid-range (5000K to 6500K) bulb > > as those are generally considered "full spectrum" or "daylight" > > bulbs. Here's a color picture of the Kelvin Scale, > > http://www.bltdirec <http://www.bltdirect.com/images/colour-temperature.jpg> t.com/images/colour-temperature.jpg > <http://www.bltdirec <http://www.bltdirect.com/images/colour-temperature.jpg> t.com/images/colour-temperature.jpg> > > <http://www.bltdirec <http://www.bltdirect.com/images/colour-temperature.jpg> t.com/images/colour-temperature.jpg > <http://www.bltdirec <http://www.bltdirect.com/images/colour-temperature.jpg> t.com/images/colour-temperature.jpg>> and you can > > visually > > see that the 5000K to 6500K range is all about the same "color". I > > think this is also why Actinic bulbs are usually higher and closer > > to the > 10000K > > range and up... apparently, the Kelvin lighting scale can go up to > 20,000K > > (according to this article about Reef Tanks > > http://nh.craigslis <http://nh.craigslist.org/for/1423072406.html> t.org/for/1423072406.html > <http://nh.craigslis <http://nh.craigslist.org/for/1423072406.html> t.org/for/1423072406.html> > > <http://nh.craigslis <http://nh.craigslist.org/for/1423072406.html> t.org/for/1423072406.html > <http://nh.craigslis <http://nh.craigslist.org/for/1423072406.html> t.org/for/1423072406.html>> on, of all places, > > Craigslist). > > Here is the page that that the above photo link came from and it has > > a chart that also explains things a little more also and talks about > > the > CRI, yet > > another lighting term (Color Rendition Index). > > http://www.bltdirec <http://www.bltdirect.com/lampColourTemperatures.php> t.com/lampColourTemperatures.php > <http://www.bltdirec <http://www.bltdirect.com/lampColourTemperatures.php> t.com/lampColourTemperatures.php> > > <http://www.bltdirec <http://www.bltdirect.com/lampColourTemperatures.php> t.com/lampColourTemperatures.php > <http://www.bltdirec <http://www.bltdirect.com/lampColourTemperatures.php> t.com/lampColourTemperatures.php>> > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> blogspot.com> <http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> blogspot.com>> > > (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the > > right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by > > Year, > Month) > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > [mailto:AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On Behalf Of Amber Berglund > > Sent: Tuesday, November 10, 2009 4:22 PM > > To: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: wisteria/lighting previous > > question/response revisited > > > > Another thing to consider is one light company's 6500 kelvin rating > > may not be identical to another light bulb from a different company > > that's rated the same. The important thing to look at is the color > > chart they show on the boxes, you want more red and blue light for > > your plants, green is not useful or harmful as the plants reflect > > the light back (makes them appear more green but does nothing else > > for them). The kelvin rating is based on our eyes and how they > > perceive color, so each company doesn't have to be identical, > > perhaps some day they will have a universal way to measure light > > spectrums on bulbs that is much less confusing. > > > > Amber > > > > Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > > > > > > OK. So you have a total of 80 watts right now, which is just over > > > 1 WPG, which means you only have enough lighting for low-light, > > > easy to grow plants. See my blog article "Planted Tank: So You > > > Want A Planted Tank" for links to lists of low-light, easy to grow > > > plants that will do OK in your tank. You should replace those tubes at least yearly... > > > although some say every six months. As far as I know, a 40W bulb > > > is the highest wattage made for this type of bulb/fixture right > > > now but you can increase your lighting > > > (lumens) and K (Kelvin) rating. See below. > > > > > > NOTE - below links are for example/informational purposes only, as > > > I know nothing about the sites. God... did I just say that? Do I > > > really have to add disclaimers to my posts now? LOL Just laughing at myself. > > > LOL > > > > > > This may be your Sylvania bulb... > > > http://www.lightbul <http://www.lightbulbemporium.com/proddetail.asp?prod=F40/EX50> bemporium.com/proddetail.asp?prod=F40/EX50 > <http://www.lightbul <http://www.lightbulbemporium.com/proddetail.asp?prod=F40/EX50> bemporium.com/proddetail.asp?prod=F40/EX50> > > <http://www.lightbul <http://www.lightbulbemporium.com/proddetail.asp?prod=F40/EX50> bemporium.com/proddetail.asp?prod=F40/EX50 > <http://www.lightbul <http://www.lightbulbemporium.com/proddetail.asp?prod=F40/EX50> bemporium.com/proddetail.asp?prod=F40/EX50>> > > > <http://www.lightbul <http://www.lightbulbemporium.com/proddetail.asp?prod=F40/EX50> bemporium.com/proddetail.asp?prod=F40/EX50 > <http://www.lightbul <http://www.lightbulbemporium.com/proddetail.asp?prod=F40/EX50> bemporium.com/proddetail.asp?prod=F40/EX50> > > <http://www.lightbul <http://www.lightbulbemporium.com/proddetail.asp?prod=F40/EX50> bemporium.com/proddetail.asp?prod=F40/EX50 > <http://www.lightbul <http://www.lightbulbemporium.com/proddetail.asp?prod=F40/EX50> bemporium.com/proddetail.asp?prod=F40/EX50>>> and > if > > > it is, then it's the same ratings as the specs in the T-10 bulb > > > that I copy/pasted below, which is a pretty good bulb with higher > > > lumens and the higher K rating, although not a 6500K rated bulb. > > > At the bottom of this page, there was a link to this bulb... > > > > > > http://www.lightbul <http://www.lightbulbemporium.com/maxlite_51204_ml_f40t10_850_rscg.asp> bemporium.com/maxlite_51204_ml_f40t10_850_rscg.asp > <http://www.lightbul <http://www.lightbulbemporium.com/maxlite_51204_ml_f40t10_850_rscg.asp> bemporium.com/maxlite_51204_ml_f40t10_850_rscg.asp > > > > > <http://www.lightbul <http://www.lightbulbemporium.com/maxlite_51204_ml_f40t10_850_rscg.asp> bemporium.com/maxlite_51204_ml_f40t10_850_rscg.asp > <http://www.lightbul <http://www.lightbulbemporium.com/maxlite_51204_ml_f40t10_850_rscg.asp> bemporium.com/maxlite_51204_ml_f40t10_850_rscg.asp > >> > > > > > > <http://www.lightbul <http://www.lightbulbemporium.com/maxlite_51204_ml_f40t10_850_rscg.asp> bemporium.com/maxlite_51204_ml_f40t10_850_rscg.asp > <http://www.lightbul <http://www.lightbulbemporium.com/maxlite_51204_ml_f40t10_850_rscg.asp> bemporium.com/maxlite_51204_ml_f40t10_850_rscg.asp > > > > > <http://www.lightbul <http://www.lightbulbemporium.com/maxlite_51204_ml_f40t10_850_rscg.asp> bemporium.com/maxlite_51204_ml_f40t10_850_rscg.asp > <http://www.lightbul <http://www.lightbulbemporium.com/maxlite_51204_ml_f40t10_850_rscg.asp> bemporium.com/maxlite_51204_ml_f40t10_850_rscg.asp > >> > > > > > > > which > > > has an even higher lumen rating of 3700, although not much higher > > > than the 3550 rating but every little bit helps especially since > > > the MaxLite bulb was a lower price than the Sylvania bulb. > > > > > > As you will see on this page > > > > > > http://www.lightbul <http://www.lightbulbsdirect.com/Merchant2/merchant.mvc?page=001/CTGY/F> bsdirect.com/Merchant2/merchant.mvc?page=001/CTGY/F > <http://www.lightbul <http://www.lightbulbsdirect.com/Merchant2/merchant.mvc?page=001/CTGY/> bsdirect.com/Merchant2/merchant.mvc?page=001/CTGY/ > F> > > > <http://www.lightbul <http://www.lightbulbsdirect.com/Merchant2/merchant.mvc?page=001/CTGY/> bsdirect.com/Merchant2/merchant.mvc?page=001/CTGY/ > F > <http://www.lightbul <http://www.lightbulbsdirect.com/Merchant2/merchant.mvc?page=001/CTGY/> bsdirect.com/Merchant2/merchant.mvc?page=001/CTGY/ > F>> > > > S+Fluo > > > > > > <http://www.lightbul <http://www.lightbulbsdirect.com/Merchant2/merchant.mvc?page=001/CTGY/> bsdirect.com/Merchant2/merchant.mvc?page=001/CTGY/ > <http://www.lightbul <http://www.lightbulbsdirect.com/Merchant2/merchant.mvc?page=001/CTGY/> bsdirect.com/Merchant2/merchant.mvc?page=001/CTGY/ > > > > > <http://www.lightbul <http://www.lightbulbsdirect.com/Merchant2/merchant.mvc?page=001/CTGY/> bsdirect.com/Merchant2/merchant.mvc?page=001/CTGY/ > <http://www.lightbul <http://www.lightbulbsdirect.com/Merchant2/merchant.mvc?page=001/CTGY/> bsdirect.com/Merchant2/merchant.mvc?page=001/CTGY/ > >> > > > FS+Fluo> > > > rescent > > > > > > The second bulb down would be similar to yours, except we do not > > > know the lumen or color spectrum rating on your bulb, unless that > > > link I gave above is actually your bulb and then it would be the > > > same as this one. The specs on it are: > > > > > > T-10 Fluorescent > > > 40 Watts > > > Length: 48" > > > Medium Bi-Pin Base > > > Color: 5000K Temperature > > > Initial Lumens: 3550 > > > CRI: 84 > > > Average Life: 20,000 Hours > > > > > > The Color spectrum of 5000K (Kelvin) is OK but 6500K would be much > > better. > > > The Lumens of 3550 is the actual amount of *light* > > > > > > The next bulb down from that one is a T-12, which will also fit in > > > your fixture but they are bigger diameter bulbs and this one > > > actually puts out less light (lumens). Here are the specs: > > > > > > T-12 Fluorescent > > > 40 Watts > > > Length: 48" > > > Base: Medium Bi-Pin Base > > > Initial Lumens: 2200 > > > Average Life: 20,000 Hours > > > Color Temperature: 5000K > > > CRI: 92 > > > > > > It has the same Color spectrum but only 2200 lumens so the above > > > T-10 bulb has around 50% more lumens (light) coming out of it. > > > > > > Now, if you scroll down to the second from the bottom on the page, > > > you'll see the Verilux Instant-Sun T-12 bulb which has a higher > > > Kelvin rating but it doesn't list the lumens so this needs to be > > > checked out further. While the higher K rating is good, if it goes > > > back down to only 2200 lumens, instead of the 3550 lumens of the > > > first referenced bulb above, then I would probably go with the > > > 3550 lumens, 5000K bulb over the 6280K bulb if the lumens were a LOT less. > > > > > > (START SNIP) > > > Engineered to reproduce all the colors and balance of natural > > > light, VeriluxR full spectrum fluorescent tubes feature Trucolite > > > Phosphor TechnologyT which includes the use of a stable, custom > > > blend of earth phosphors that create bright, balanced full spectrum light. > > > T-12 Fluorescent > > > 40 Watts > > > Length: 48" > > > Color Temperature: 6280K > > > CRI: 94 > > > Medium Bi-Pin Base > > > (END SNIP) > > > > > > So, as you can see, there's a few things to look for when shopping > > > for new replacement bulbs. Look for the 5000K to 6500K bulbs with > > > the higher lumen rating for the dollar and you should be good. > > > Note that a 3550 or 3700 lumen bulb will put out nearly twice as > > > much light as a 2000 lumen bulb so it can be easy to increase your > > > lighting without increasing the wattage. DO NOT try to use HO or > > > VHO bulbs... which look similar but have much higher wattage, well > > > over the 40W bulbs you now have. These other HO and VHO bulbs have > > > different pin arrangements so they will not fit in your fixture > > > anyhow but I just wanted to save you a trip. > > > > > > Last but not least, if you're handy, you could even take the bulbs > > > out of your fixtures and line the insides of your fixtures with > > > nice and crisp and flat aluminum foil (shiny side exposed) which > > > will also help. Using double stick tape and then carefully > > > applying the foil so it does not wrinkle too much will work > > > well... especially if the inside of your fixture is black. A white > > > reflector is good but a mirrored reflector, like that created by > > > the shiny side of foil, is MUCH better than a black reflector. > > > Most black fixtures do at least have white reflector areas. > > > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> blogspot.com> > > <http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> blogspot.com>> > > > <http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> blogspot.com>>> > > (Links to any articles referenced in > > > above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under > > > Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > From: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > [mailto:AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On Behalf Of > > > erikaandnewton > > > Sent: Tuesday, November 10, 2009 10:17 AM > > > To: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: wisteria/lighting previous > > > question/response revisited > > > > > > << When you say "two strips" do you have two 4' long two-bulb > > > fixtures already or something else?>> > > > > > > i have two 4' single bulb strip lights. > > > > > > >> What kind of lighting do you currently have? Look at the bulbs > > > >> and there should be some kind of writing on one of the ends. > > > >> Give us that info if you cannot decipher it yourself.<< > > > > > > one bulb is a f40 t10 > > > the other one is a sylvania daylight bulb also f40 > > > > > > >> It's probably 21" tall, since a common measurement for a 75G is > > > >> 48"x18"x21" Tall.>> > > > > > > it is 21 inches tall > > > > > > erika wilmington de usa [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 44424	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 11/11/2009
Subject: Re: Why am I getting these weird messages to this address?

Donna, Is this your way of saying "Get back on topic boys!" or were you asking about the snip of header info that you posted? I can't tell if you're being sarcastic towards us about bringing up Bookmarks and browser stuff... or asking a legitimate question. LOL Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Donna Ransome Sent: Wednesday, November 11, 2009 6:54 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Why am I getting these weird messages to this address? sentto-8495157-44406-1257953244-djransome=optonline.net@... .com It seems to be associated with aquatic life. This one eventually was from Bill with a bunch of stuff in the header first. _____ From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Steve Szabo Sent: Wednesday, November 11, 2009 6:43 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: wisteria/lighting previous question/response revisited Lenny, I don't need no steenkin' hack. In Firefox, the bookmarks are kept as they should be, as one file, not each bookmark in a separate file gobbling up disk space as IE does. It also eats up space in the MFT (Master File Table). (SNIPPED)

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 44425	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 11/11/2009
Subject: Re: wisteria/lighting previous question/response revisited

I don't have any financial institution I deal with bookmarked. Nor do I send up my password info, which is not kept in my browser. I've been using it for quite some time, and I do not remember about the encryption, other than it is encrypted. It used to be called Foxmarks, or something similar. Looking around, here is your answer for encryption: http://wiki.foxmarks.com/wiki/Foxmarks:_Password_Sync \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Lenny V. aka GoldLenny Sent: Wednesday, November 11, 2009 1:04 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: wisteria/lighting previous question/response revisited I'm looking at the XMarks.com page now. Does that store a copy online and/or sync the computers online or does it just sync the browsers kept on computers that can be copied to locally? Oops.. never mind, I'm reading their FAQ's now and see that it does keep a copy online. I'm sure I've looked at this before but I was kind of hoping one of the big boys would provide this service. How secure do you think XMarks is? Do you keep all of your favorites online with them... such as Banks and Financial favorites? I'm presuming it's all sync'ed via an HTTPS server? Do they allow you to choose an encryption code yourself? I do not see that addressed in their FAQ's. Remarkably (or not), I feel more secure with storing info online with the big boys (especially a publicly traded company) than with a smaller privately held company. At least the big boys have to worry about their stock prices when they have screw ups so they *should* work harder to prevent screw ups... yeah, I know, some may say this theory does not work concerning MS but I'm NOT one of those people. Considering the numbers of configurations of the billions of computers, their various attackers/hackers and ultimately, the PICNIC's that MS has to deal with, I'm surprised their software and OS works at all. Considering all of these factors, they do a remarkable job, IMO. I'd put my faith in Bill Gates over my guv'ment ANY DAY!!! That said, I do use Google's Medical Online services to keep my medical records online, instead of MS's service. I sure hope Google's attempt at a browser based OS doesn't compromise Google's security. As far as FireFox, which you mentioned in a previous post, I haven't finished my review and write up yet (so it's not on my other blog) but I finally broke down and tried it and it's OK but not all that some folks claim it to be... and now that Mozilla and MS have admitted that add-on's can cause major security issues, with all of the add-on's that are available for FF, I'm sure that makes whatever perceived security go down the toilet once the basic browser is customized with add-on's by the user, who may not realize how add-on's affect the browsers security. On two different computers (XP-Home and Vista Home Premium), FireFox uses MUCH more Memory Usage (according to Task Manager) than IE8... AND.... when minimized, IE8's Memory Usage drops down dramatically where FF's stays the same whether minimized or not. I know this isn't an issue with newer computers with lots of RAM but for computers that are a few years old (less than 1GB of RAM), anything that saves/conserves RAM makes computing a lot more pleasant. I can't even use FF on my slowest computer, the one that I let my elderly neighbor use, as that computer only has 384MB of RAM and doesn't have much RAM left over once OL2003 and IE8 are running (along with all of the other background processes). Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Steve Szabo Sent: Wednesday, November 11, 2009 5:46 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: wisteria/lighting previous question/response revisited Lenny, Take a look at Xmarks that will keep a master copy of your bookmarks and sync them between the major browsers. Something like http://www.xmarks.org off the top of my head, not bookmarked <g>. I use it for synching several computers I use on a regular basis. \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Lenny V. aka GoldLenny Sent: Wednesday, November 11, 2009 1:30 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: wisteria/lighting previous question/response revisited Yeah... I keep kind of hoping that Google will eventually provide an online "Bookmarks/Favorites" service or homepage add-in, which would also include a search feature and maybe even a way to scan for bad links in the Bookmarks/Favorites instead of finding out when you go to use that long kept bookmark/favorite and the site no longer exists... of course, there's always the Wayback Machine at the Internet Archive http://www.archive.org to find websites/pages that have disappeared from the net. I regularly go into my IE Favorites and use the "Organize Favorites" feature to move things around but also will use Windows Explorer, C:\Documents and Settings\Owner\Favorites\, to look at my Favorites folder and drag and drop, move and rename things around in there. Then, there is this Registry hack to mass sort the Favorites folder, sub-folders and files, instead of having to "Sort By Name" inside each folder. From http://www.theeldergeek.com/sort_favorites_menu_alphabetical.htm (with some added instructions by me to clarify some things). Sort Favorites Menu Alphabetically [Start] [Run] [Regedit] Registry Key: HKEY_CURRENT_USER\Software\Microsoft\Windows\CurrentVersion\Explorer\MenuOrd er\Favorites (Click on Favorites to highlight, then in the view panel) Right click the Favorites key *Order* and click Delete Exit registry and reboot. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Steve Szabo Sent: Tuesday, November 10, 2009 11:43 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: wisteria/lighting previous question/response revisited Lenny, I have a couple of problems. First, I do have a lot of folders and sub folders for things, and try to use them. However, I can also be pressed for time, and just bookmark it, thinking I'll fix it later. Somehow, later comes even later than one would expect, and when it does arrive, I do a bunch, but never finish going through the list. The other problem is that what made sense at the time, may not make sense when I am looking for the bookmark, possible because I a thinking about the topic in a different way than when I bookmarked the site. It is kind of like how one searches the web. If your first key words do not provide what you are looking for, you modify those terms and search again. Same topic, a bit different way of looking at it. Eventually, you will get what you want. What I probably need is a bookmark search engine. For those of you who were born and weaned with Windows, bookmarks is the correct term, not Microsoft's Favorites, though, I must admit, it is possible to have favorite bookmarks. \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Lenny V. aka GoldLenny Sent: Tuesday, November 10, 2009 11:57 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: wisteria/lighting previous question/response revisited Bookmarks and Favorites are filing systems... if you don't know how/where it's filed, you won't find it anyhow. I have an extensive Favorites folder with dozens of primary folders and then dozens if not hundreds of sub-folders and sub-sub-folders, for example, under Favorites, I have 59 primary folders and one of them is called Aquarium Sites, then, in that folder, I have 44 alphabetized sub-folders just in that folder, from Additives and Algae to Tutorials-Quizzes and UGF Filters (no V,W,X,Y,Z sub-folders under Aquarium... not sure why not). Then in the Algae folder, I have 7 sub-sub-folders dealing with topics such as Algae Eaters, Allelopathic Control, Diatoms-Brown Algae, Hair Algae, Hydrogen Peroxide, Pond Algae, SeaChem Flourish Excel For Treating Algae and then 11 other favorites about Algae in general, for a total of 48 links, just about Algae. My Favorites folder, when looking at its Properties, is 1.41MB in size and consists of 2,057 files (links) and 306 folders (incl. sub and sub-sub folders) in totality. Many years of surfing and saving and starting off with an organizational plan from the start makes it easy for me to navigate and find things easily. My Favorites is like a mini-Google. ;-) I have been toying around with the idea of using a web resource to keep my Favorites folder online so I can sync it with all of my computers and/or just use it as an online Favorites folder that I can log into from any computer. For now, I use LogMeIn (Free) to connect to my main computer from my laptop when I'm out in the streets playing... oops.. I meant working. But I don't think I'd share my Favorites or then I'd have to go in and edit out all my favorite porn links... well, maybe not for Bill. LOL Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Amber Berglund Sent: Tuesday, November 10, 2009 10:25 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: wisteria/lighting previous question/response revisited No worries Bill, I do the same thing, maybe Lenny will be so kind as to send us all his bookmarks? LOL Amber bill 1433 wrote: > > Yes, Amber > > It was I, looking for the original information and also looked back on > \\Steve//'s post at group to try and find. Ray had mentioned all this > the other day saying that he thought the posting came from \\Steve//. > > I was not successful in my search. Also, for me the most important > part was a link to a chart which showed you exactly, or explained > exactly the "T" factor stands for. For instance, T-4 would be a tube > that is a half inch wide, or close to it-----------I think. All this > is my own fault. In my interest to acquire and learn about lighting,I > went through and studied the applied links but being ol'bill, I never > bookmarked them. Then to further compound the problem, I deleted the > original message that it came from. In hind-sight you could probably > chalk this all up to felonious stupidity on my part. > > Bill---where its always a good day if I learn something new! > > --- On Tue, 11/10/09, Amber Berglund <arberglund@... > <mailto:arberglund%40gmail.com>> wrote: > > From: Amber Berglund <arberglund@... > <mailto:arberglund%40gmail.com>> > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: wisteria/lighting previous > question/response revisited > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Date: Tuesday, November 10, 2009, 9:30 PM > > I believe it was Steve who posted a link about lumens months back when > (I think it was maybe Bill asking) about lighting for planted aquariums. > Plants require 2 different spectrums of light to properly produce > either leaves or flowers (red is more for flower production and blue > is more for growth, but for the best growing you want a mixture of BOTH colors). > So in reality you would want a light that appears more brown/reddish > in coloring and a blue/white coloring as well, but they now have bulbs > that have BOTH spectrums built in (I'm sure they don't work as well as > it would to have 2 different bulbs one mostly red and the other mostly > blue on the color spectrum). > Let me see if I still have the link bookmarked. > What I was trying to say is that Kelvin does not tell you what color > spectrum the light REALLY is, it's actually measuring it's light > output color according to how the human eyes perceive it. So 6500 > kelvin in general is what most plants will prefer because that is a > mixture of both red and blue spectrums (In MOST bulbs) unfortunately > not all light bulb manufactures have to use the exact same chart for > their colors, so they will have different colors than another bulb > that says it's 6500 Kelvin. what you really need to read is the color > chart on the box, not what lumens it says it is. > (still searching for link, LOL). > > This isn't the right link but it discusses the kelvin/lumen problems a > little bit, still looking for the link that showed the charts and what > to look for in the color charts. > http://www.americanaquariumproducts.com/Aquarium_Lighting.html > <http://www.americanaquariumproducts.com/Aquarium_Lighting.html> > > Will post again when I find the other link with chart examples. > > Amber > > Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > > > > I think it would be false advertising or possibly mis-advertising > (if they > > do not know any better) if a company lists their bulbs as 6500K and > > they aren't. The Kelvin scale, just like Watts and Lumens, are ALL > > universal and scientifically measurable scales BUT, as I showed > > below, not all 40 watt bulbs put out the same amount of light > > (lumens) or in the same color spectrum (Kelvin rating). All 40 watt > > bulbs, whether incandescent, fluorescent, CFL, LED, Halogen, etc.... > > ALL use only/around 40 watts of electricity but their light output > > can vary dramatically. This is why fluorescent bulbs are so much > > more efficient than incandescent bulbs and CFL's are even more > > efficient... as a 40W fluorescent bulb puts out > a LOT > > more light (lumens) than a 40 watt incandescent bulb and a 40W CFL > > puts out more light (lumens) than a 40W fluorescent bulb. This is > > why the OLD "Watts Per Gallon" rule simply does not work any more. > > > > BUT.. if three different companies are selling standard T-10 > > fluorescent bulbs with the same exact rating of 40W, 3550 lumens and > > 6500K rating... all three of those bulbs should be VERY SIMILAR if > > not identical in the way they appear to our eyes (subject to our own > > degree of color blindness, of > > course!) > > > > In the past, things like "soft white", "warm white", "daylight", > > "plant grow", etc., type terms were used and are still used but > > those are just simple words (not subject to a scientific scale) to > > describe the Kelvin rating ranges but lumens are just as important > > since a bulb could have a 6500K rating with only 2200 lumens where > > another bulb could have a 6500K rating and 3550 or 3700 lumens and > > that bulb would put out over 50% more light (lumens) in the same > > color spectrum (Kelvin rating) so it > would be a > > much more cost effective bulb if it cost the same amount or only a > little > > more. > > > > I'm slightly confused about the "red and blue light for your plants" > > as those two colors are on opposite ends of the Kelvin Scale with > > reds and ambers in the lower numbers and greens and blues in the > > higher > numbers. I > > think this is why you would want a mid-range (5000K to 6500K) bulb > > as those are generally considered "full spectrum" or "daylight" > > bulbs. Here's a color picture of the Kelvin Scale, > > http://www.bltdirect.com/images/colour-temperature.jpg > <http://www.bltdirect.com/images/colour-temperature.jpg> > > <http://www.bltdirect.com/images/colour-temperature.jpg > <http://www.bltdirect.com/images/colour-temperature.jpg>> and you can > > visually > > see that the 5000K to 6500K range is all about the same "color". I > > think this is also why Actinic bulbs are usually higher and closer > > to the > 10000K > > range and up... apparently, the Kelvin lighting scale can go up to > 20,000K > > (according to this article about Reef Tanks > > http://nh.craigslist.org/for/1423072406.html > <http://nh.craigslist.org/for/1423072406.html> > > <http://nh.craigslist.org/for/1423072406.html > <http://nh.craigslist.org/for/1423072406.html>> on, of all places, > > Craigslist). > > Here is the page that that the above photo link came from and it has > > a chart that also explains things a little more also and talks about > > the > CRI, yet > > another lighting term (Color Rendition Index). > > http://www.bltdirect.com/lampColourTemperatures.php > <http://www.bltdirect.com/lampColourTemperatures.php> > > <http://www.bltdirect.com/lampColourTemperatures.php > <http://www.bltdirect.com/lampColourTemperatures.php>> > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>> > > (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the > > right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by > > Year, > Month) > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On Behalf Of Amber Berglund > > Sent: Tuesday, November 10, 2009 4:22 PM > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: wisteria/lighting previous > > question/response revisited > > > > Another thing to consider is one light company's 6500 kelvin rating > > may not be identical to another light bulb from a different company > > that's rated the same. The important thing to look at is the color > > chart they show on the boxes, you want more red and blue light for > > your plants, green is not useful or harmful as the plants reflect > > the light back (makes them appear more green but does nothing else > > for them). The kelvin rating is based on our eyes and how they > > perceive color, so each company doesn't have to be identical, > > perhaps some day they will have a universal way to measure light > > spectrums on bulbs that is much less confusing. > > > > Amber > > > > Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > > > > > > OK. So you have a total of 80 watts right now, which is just over > > > 1 WPG, which means you only have enough lighting for low-light, > > > easy to grow plants. See my blog article "Planted Tank: So You > > > Want A Planted Tank" for links to lists of low-light, easy to grow > > > plants that will do OK in your tank. You should replace those tubes at least yearly... > > > although some say every six months. As far as I know, a 40W bulb > > > is the highest wattage made for this type of bulb/fixture right > > > now but you can increase your lighting > > > (lumens) and K (Kelvin) rating. See below. > > > > > > NOTE - below links are for example/informational purposes only, as > > > I know nothing about the sites. God... did I just say that? Do I > > > really have to add disclaimers to my posts now? LOL Just laughing at myself. > > > LOL > > > > > > This may be your Sylvania bulb... > > > http://www.lightbulbemporium.com/proddetail.asp?prod=F40/EX50 > <http://www.lightbulbemporium.com/proddetail.asp?prod=F40/EX50> > > <http://www.lightbulbemporium.com/proddetail.asp?prod=F40/EX50 > <http://www.lightbulbemporium.com/proddetail.asp?prod=F40/EX50>> > > > <http://www.lightbulbemporium.com/proddetail.asp?prod=F40/EX50 > <http://www.lightbulbemporium.com/proddetail.asp?prod=F40/EX50> > > <http://www.lightbulbemporium.com/proddetail.asp?prod=F40/EX50 > <http://www.lightbulbemporium.com/proddetail.asp?prod=F40/EX50>>> and > if > > > it is, then it's the same ratings as the specs in the T-10 bulb > > > that I copy/pasted below, which is a pretty good bulb with higher > > > lumens and the higher K rating, although not a 6500K rated bulb. > > > At the bottom of this page, there was a link to this bulb... > > > > > > http://www.lightbulbemporium.com/maxlite_51204_ml_f40t10_850_rscg.asp > <http://www.lightbulbemporium.com/maxlite_51204_ml_f40t10_850_rscg.asp > > > > > <http://www.lightbulbemporium.com/maxlite_51204_ml_f40t10_850_rscg.asp > <http://www.lightbulbemporium.com/maxlite_51204_ml_f40t10_850_rscg.asp > >> > > > > > > <http://www.lightbulbemporium.com/maxlite_51204_ml_f40t10_850_rscg.asp > <http://www.lightbulbemporium.com/maxlite_51204_ml_f40t10_850_rscg.asp > > > > > <http://www.lightbulbemporium.com/maxlite_51204_ml_f40t10_850_rscg.asp > <http://www.lightbulbemporium.com/maxlite_51204_ml_f40t10_850_rscg.asp > >> > > > > > > > which > > > has an even higher lumen rating of 3700, although not much higher > > > than the 3550 rating but every little bit helps especially since > > > the MaxLite bulb was a lower price than the Sylvania bulb. > > > > > > As you will see on this page > > > > > > http://www.lightbulbsdirect.com/Merchant2/merchant.mvc?page=001/CTGY/F > <http://www.lightbulbsdirect.com/Merchant2/merchant.mvc?page=001/CTGY/ > F> > > > <http://www.lightbulbsdirect.com/Merchant2/merchant.mvc?page=001/CTGY/ > F > <http://www.lightbulbsdirect.com/Merchant2/merchant.mvc?page=001/CTGY/ > F>> > > > S+Fluo > > > > > > <http://www.lightbulbsdirect.com/Merchant2/merchant.mvc?page=001/CTGY/ > <http://www.lightbulbsdirect.com/Merchant2/merchant.mvc?page=001/CTGY/ > > > > > <http://www.lightbulbsdirect.com/Merchant2/merchant.mvc?page=001/CTGY/ > <http://www.lightbulbsdirect.com/Merchant2/merchant.mvc?page=001/CTGY/ > >> > > > FS+Fluo> > > > rescent > > > > > > The second bulb down would be similar to yours, except we do not > > > know the lumen or color spectrum rating on your bulb, unless that > > > link I gave above is actually your bulb and then it would be the > > > same as this one. The specs on it are: > > > > > > T-10 Fluorescent > > > 40 Watts > > > Length: 48" > > > Medium Bi-Pin Base > > > Color: 5000K Temperature > > > Initial Lumens: 3550 > > > CRI: 84 > > > Average Life: 20,000 Hours > > > > > > The Color spectrum of 5000K (Kelvin) is OK but 6500K would be much > > better. > > > The Lumens of 3550 is the actual amount of *light* > > > > > > The next bulb down from that one is a T-12, which will also fit in > > > your fixture but they are bigger diameter bulbs and this one > > > actually puts out less light (lumens). Here are the specs: > > > > > > T-12 Fluorescent > > > 40 Watts > > > Length: 48" > > > Base: Medium Bi-Pin Base > > > Initial Lumens: 2200 > > > Average Life: 20,000 Hours > > > Color Temperature: 5000K > > > CRI: 92 > > > > > > It has the same Color spectrum but only 2200 lumens so the above > > > T-10 bulb has around 50% more lumens (light) coming out of it. > > > > > > Now, if you scroll down to the second from the bottom on the page, > > > you'll see the Verilux Instant-Sun T-12 bulb which has a higher > > > Kelvin rating but it doesn't list the lumens so this needs to be > > > checked out further. While the higher K rating is good, if it goes > > > back down to only 2200 lumens, instead of the 3550 lumens of the > > > first referenced bulb above, then I would probably go with the > > > 3550 lumens, 5000K bulb over the 6280K bulb if the lumens were a LOT less. > > > > > > (START SNIP) > > > Engineered to reproduce all the colors and balance of natural > > > light, VeriluxR full spectrum fluorescent tubes feature Trucolite > > > Phosphor TechnologyT which includes the use of a stable, custom > > > blend of earth phosphors that create bright, balanced full spectrum light. > > > T-12 Fluorescent > > > 40 Watts > > > Length: 48" > > > Color Temperature: 6280K > > > CRI: 94 > > > Medium Bi-Pin Base > > > (END SNIP) > > > > > > So, as you can see, there's a few things to look for when shopping > > > for new replacement bulbs. Look for the 5000K to 6500K bulbs with > > > the higher lumen rating for the dollar and you should be good. > > > Note that a 3550 or 3700 lumen bulb will put out nearly twice as > > > much light as a 2000 lumen bulb so it can be easy to increase your > > > lighting without increasing the wattage. DO NOT try to use HO or > > > VHO bulbs... which look similar but have much higher wattage, well > > > over the 40W bulbs you now have. These other HO and VHO bulbs have > > > different pin arrangements so they will not fit in your fixture > > > anyhow but I just wanted to save you a trip. > > > > > > Last but not least, if you're handy, you could even take the bulbs > > > out of your fixtures and line the insides of your fixtures with > > > nice and crisp and flat aluminum foil (shiny side exposed) which > > > will also help. Using double stick tape and then carefully > > > applying the foil so it does not wrinkle too much will work > > > well... especially if the inside of your fixture is black. A white > > > reflector is good but a mirrored reflector, like that created by > > > the shiny side of foil, is MUCH better than a black reflector. > > > Most black fixtures do at least have white reflector areas. > > > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>> > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>>> > > (Links to any articles referenced in > > > above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under > > > Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On Behalf Of > > > erikaandnewton > > > Sent: Tuesday, November 10, 2009 10:17 AM > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: wisteria/lighting previous > > > question/response revisited > > > > > > << When you say "two strips" do you have two 4' long two-bulb > > > fixtures already or something else?>> > > > > > > i have two 4' single bulb strip lights. > > > > > > >> What kind of lighting do you currently have? Look at the bulbs > > > >> and there should be some kind of writing on one of the ends. > > > >> Give us that info if you cannot decipher it yourself.<< > > > > > > one bulb is a f40 t10 > > > the other one is a sylvania daylight bulb also f40 > > > > > > >> It's probably 21" tall, since a common measurement for a 75G is > > > >> 48"x18"x21" Tall.>> > > > > > > it is 21 inches tall > > > > > > erika wilmington de usa ------------------------------------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. 74/`7.88.><((((:>.74/`7.88.74/`7.8><((((:> 8.74/`7.8. , .74/`7..><((((:> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <:((((><.74/`7.88.74/`7.8<:((((><8.74/`7.8. , .74/`7..<:((((><74/`7.88. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the home page. Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com to receive the digest, which includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com for the No E-Mail option where you will still be able to read messages on the group and post replies. Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com to receive individual e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links ------------------------------------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. 74/`7.88.><((((:>.74/`7.88.74/`7.8><((((:> 8.74/`7.8. , .74/`7..><((((:> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <:((((><.74/`7.88.74/`7.8<:((((><8.74/`7.8. , .74/`7..<:((((><74/`7.88. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the home page. Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com to receive the digest, which includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com for the No E-Mail option where you will still be able to read messages on the group and post replies. Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com to receive individual e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 44426	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 11/11/2009
Subject: Re: Plants growing black hair - eek.

How old is this tank? Did you add anything new? Fertilizers for plants, new lighting, etc? Green water should go away (very very slowly) on it's own, as long as you lower the lighting timeframe and such that you have already done. There is NO quick fix for this. You can do more PWC's but sometimes that can cause more problems than fix the water because it can actually cause the algae to grow faster, rather than get rid of it. Let us know if you have changed anything recently for this to happen. Amber biG poppa wrote: > > Help Help hi guys i have green water i have tried it all move the > lights up 4 inches, water changes all the water paremeters are > fine........my next option is Algeafix by API...I have also lower the > time the lights are on...........Added an air stone and a power > jet..this is my 55g set up its floresent green....... > > --- On Wed, 11/11/09, Amber Berglund <arberglund@... > <mailto:arberglund%40gmail.com>> wrote: > > From: Amber Berglund <arberglund@... > <mailto:arberglund%40gmail.com>> > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: Plants growing black hair - eek. > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Date: Wednesday, November 11, 2009, 6:23 PM > > Just trim the plants (without butchering them too badly) of all the > spots growing algae, that will promote new healthy growth as well. > If you had too much lighting for the tank and that's why you're taking > out one bulb that will help lower algae growth, if the plants start to > suffer you might want to consider trying to find lower wattage bulbs > that will still work with your same fixture (some are interchangeable, > but not all of them). > Using hydrogen peroxide will get rid of black beard algae, but if you > have shrimp or snails you can't safely use hydrogen peroxide. You just > need to squirt the plants or soak your decorations in hydrogen peroxide > and the BB algae will scrape off easily (or fall off). Just be careful > not to squirt it near fish as it can be harmful. > > Amber > > cat.rose wrote: > > > > Thanks Lenny! (and Eric!) > > > > Ok... so it seems like I'm doing pretty good for now. I took out one of > > the light bulbs; the fishies will just have a brightly lit area and a > > dimly lit area for now. I suppose I could alternate which bulb comes > > out so the plants don't suffer. I love Eric's idea of a timer - that > > would solve a lot of problems. > > > > You didn't mention doing anything with hydrogen peroxide (which someone > > had suggested when I first posted my dilemma), so I'm guessing that's > > not really an option that needs to be pursued. I was actually thinking > > of tossing out ALL the plants and getting new ones, but seems I don't > > need to do anything that drastic - esp since it may upset the bioload. > > [:-?] The plants just look really UGLY right now. [:-&] > > > > Maybe I'll get a couple Cherry Shrimp. I am a bit nervous that they > > will multiply to the hundreds, tho I wouldn't mind terribly if they > > became snacks for the other fish. > > > > I don't know anyone with aquariums so there won't be any fish swapping > > for me. And I've grown quite fond of the little guys, and would only > > want to take them somewhere that would give them a really good home, so > > that definitely leaves out returning them to PetSmart. I know you told > > me before that the Zebra Danios would be better in a school, but since I > > can't fit any more fish into this tank, and I don't have anyone > > "suitable" to give any of the fish to I'm stuck with this little group. > > They all seem pretty happy tho... > > > > Appreciate all the great advice! > > > > Catherine > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>, "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" > > <GoldLenny@...> wrote: > > > > > > Hi Eric, > > > > > > I mentioned a clown pleco in my last reply, but in retrospect, even a > > dwarf > > > pleco wouldn't help with algae growing on a hornwort plant or most > > other > > > plants. There's nothing for them to suck on like with a broad leafed > > plant > > > and even dwarfs get too big for many plants once they mature... but > > they do > > > work on the glass and other stuff pretty good. > > > > > > You did remind me that at least with her smaller minnow-type fish, she > > could > > > go with some Cherry Shrimp and they are pretty good little algae > > eaters and > > > would be able to climb the hornwort and the smaller fish wouldn't > > really > > > bother the shrimp although if the shrimp have babies, the babies might > > > become snacks to the fish. They are also a VERY SMALL bioload on a > > tank. I > > > have dozens, if not hundreds in my 10G tank on a regular basis until I > > bring > > > some to my LFS once a month or so. > > > > > > All said, the best offense against algae is a good defense... keeping > > it > > > from getting out of control in the first place by proper tank > > maintenance, > > > lighting and nutrient control. > > > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>> > > > (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the > > right > > > side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, > > Month) > > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] > > On > > > Behalf Of Rev. Eric Roberts > > > Sent: Monday, November 09, 2009 7:47 PM > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: Plants growing black hair - eek. > > > > > > Get a timer. They have some multi-plug timers you can get pretty > > cheap. it > > > keeps the time consistent. What would be really cool is if they had > > one > > > that can reduce and expand the time the lights are on based on time of > > year. > > > Most of the hoods you are seeing that have light fixtures use the > > standard > > > fluorescent tubes. If you are just using those bulbs and staying to > > a > > > 10-12 hour daylight span, you should be fine. You may want to look > > into > > > getting a couple of dwarf plecos to help keep the algae down. Dwarf > > plecos > > > only get a few inches long (as opposed to their regular cousins that > > can get > > > pretty huge). > > > > > > Eric > > > > > > > > > From: cat.rose > > > Sent: Monday, November 09, 2009 4:37 PM > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Plants growing black hair - eek. > > > > > > > > > > > > Here are my answers: > > > > > > (1) I must have all boys or all girls with my Glo-Fish and Guppies > > because > > > there's been no babies that I've ever seen and I've had them since > > Feburary > > > '09. Both my platies are females, but I think Gus (thought she was a > > boy > > > when I first got her!) was prego when I bought her because she had > > some > > > babies. Only 1 survived, Sonic, who I believe is a male. Uh oh... I > > hope > > > they don't mate!! (It's cute because he must know she's his mother > > cause he > > > follows her around a lot and stays by her side! It's very "Finding > > Nemo".) I > > > have no plans to buy any more fish as I do NOT want to overstock them. > > > > > > (2) I'll step up the 25% PWCs to 2x/week, and clean the filter > > once/week. > > > > > > (3) When I first bought the tank/hood, all PetSmart had was the > > tubular > > > incandescent bulbs (I think 10W each?), but they would make the tank > > super > > > hot. I went to WalMart and found the florescent ones that I have now, > > which > > > are much cooler, but yes, MUCH brighter. For awhile I unscrewed one > > bulb but > > > then half the tank was dark, and it seemed the plants on that half > > started > > > looking poorly. > > > > > > I would love a different hood where I could put those long skinny > > bulbs that > > > I read about (Sorry, I don't know the correct name of those yet! I > > still > > > feel like a newbie). I've seen a couple hoods online for a 10 gallon > > tank, > > > but it's hard to tell what type of bulbs will fit them. Can you > > recommend a > > > product? > > > > > > For the first several months after I got the tank they would get about > > 1-1/2 > > > hours of light in the morning before work, then I'd turn off the light > > when > > > I left for work, and turn the tank on again in the evening for about > > 3-4 > > > hours after I got home. So that was a total of 5-6 hours of light. > > > > > > But I read somewhere about following real-time daylight hours that > > would > > > match what they'd get in the wild, and so I've been turning the light > > on > > > when I get up in the morning around 7:30-8:00am, and turning it off > > when I > > > get home from work, no later than 8:00pm. So lately the lights have > > been on > > > for about 12 hours. And maybe this is why I got the BB algae because I > > never > > > saw a lick of it when I did my other lighting schedule. > > > > > > Maybe I should go back to that? I was just worried they weren't > > getting > > > enough light. > > > > > > (4) After looking at the link you posted I believe the plants are > > hornworts. > > > I can try taking a picture and uploading it at some point also. I just > > got > > > them because they were pretty... :) And also because I thought the > > fish > > > might like to hide/chill out in the plants. > > > > > > I've pinched off a bunch of the plants that had the most algae and > > it's a > > > little better, but there's still hairs everywhere. Blech. > > > > > > Thanks so much! > > > Catherine > > > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>, "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" > > GoldLenny@ > > > wrote: > > > > > > > RE: [AquaticLife] Re: Plants growing black hair - eek. > > > > > > Reply to 5. first - > > > > > > OK. A big step is keeping the sun out. That is a BIG part of the algae > > > problem. Natural light is good for plants but in nature, there's a lot > > more > > > water per fish so they do not have the pollution problems that our > > tanks > > > have and even in lakes/streams with lots of algae, it's not an issue > > since > > > we are not looking into the side of the lake/stream so the algae is > > not an > > > issue like in our tanks. > > > > > > Reply to 1. - > > > > > > Your stocking isn't too bad except the GloFish (Zebra Danios) should > > be in a > > > school of six or more but that would make you overstocked but not by > > much if > > > your other fish did not breed but presuming they will, do NOT buy any > > more > > > ZD's for now... but read on for my thoughts of a plan for you. > > > > > > I'm guessing you've had more than the 2 guppies and 3 platies in the > > past... > > > right? Livebearers are NOT the best fish to keep in a 10G tank as they > > > easily breed and have so many babies that the bioload can become a > > major > > > water quality problem but as long as the fish keeper is willing to do > > the > > > more frequent PWC's, filter maintenance, etc., to keep up with the > > bioload > > > until the babies can be rehomed, then it would be OK. Of course, > > having all > > > males of livebearers can work in a 10G tank since you would not have > > the > > > breeding issues and the males are usually the prettier of the species > > > anyhow... for most species except us humans. :-( > > > > > > Did you get the Hornwort plant (if this is what you have) as a way of > > giving > > > the babies a way of hiding to avoid being eaten? I know this is a > > common > > > plant used for this purpose... but in your case, you cannot afford the > > added > > > bioload of a bunch of surviving babies. You never said what type of > > plant > > > you have. Did you look at the link I provided? Is this what you have? > > > > > > Do you know anyone else that has Zebra Danios and are understocked > > with > > > them? One or the other could take the undersized school off of the > > other in > > > exchange for other fish. This would fill up the school of Zebra Danios > > > without adding to the bioload of either tank. It would be better if > > you > > > filled up the school of ZD's and gave up either the guppies or platies > > in > > > exchange. > > > > > > Reply to 2. - > > > > > > While once a week is a good general schedule for 25% PWC's, in a tank > > that > > > is having water quality problems or is overstocked, then the schedule > > needs > > > to be increased. In your case, you are not overstocked, although I > > suspect > > > you were recently due to having lots of fry but I'll wait for your > > reply. > > > Your nitrates (NO3-) are not in any kind of danger zone but since you > > are > > > having algae issues, you could start doing two 25% PWC's a week until > > they > > > are down and being maintained in the 10 - 20ppm range. > > > > > > Reply to 3. - > > > > > > Since you've read my article on Filter Maintenance and considering > > your > > > slightly elevated nitrates and algae issue, you should start doing > > weekly > > > PROPER maintenance by cleaning the filter pads/cartridges in removed > > tank > > > water to get as much of the detritus off without harming your > > nitrifying > > > bacteria colonies too much. Even after you get your tank back in the > > shape > > > you like, stick with weekly PWC's and filter maintenance to keep it > > from > > > getting bad again and so that your fish are swimming around in nice > > cleaner > > > water instead of water diluted / polluted with their waste and > > decaying > > > detritus. > > > > > > Reply to 4. - > > > > > > Are these the bulbs that came with the hood or did you have two > > tubular > > > incandescent bulbs... usually 7.5W each, at first? Those 10W bulbs you > > now > > > have are CFL's (Compact Fluorescent Light bulbs) and they put out a > > LOT more > > > light (lumens) than those two 7.5W incandescent bulbs. One of those > > 10W > > > CFL's probably puts out lumens comparable to a 40W incandescent bulb > > or > > > around 20W of normal fluorescent lighting so your tank has VERY STRONG > > > lighting now... which is also, likely contributing to your algae > > issue. If > > > you were leaving your lights on for 10 hours a day, cut them back to 9 > > > hours/day for a week, then back to 8 hours/day for a week and you > > might have > > > to go down to 6 hours/day until you find the lighting schedule that > > works > > > for your plants without causing algae. Let us know what your lighting > > > schedule was. > > > > > > Reply to 6. - > > > > > > Your test results aren't bad but see above about your nitrate (NO3-) > > level > > > and a simple plan to fix that minor problem. > > > > > > See my questions above... mainly about what kind of plant that you > > have (or > > > take a picture and post it and we should be able to ID it for you) and > > what > > > your lighting schedule was. > > > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>> > (Links to any articles > > referenced > > > in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under > > Labels and > > > also under Archives by Year, Month) > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] > > On > > > Behalf Of cat.rose > > > Sent: Sunday, November 08, 2009 9:00 PM > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Plants growing black hair - eek. > > > > > > Hi Lenny, > > > > > > Here's the answers to your questions: > > > > > > 1. How many fish? - 2 guppies, 2 GloFish, 3 platies (one is a baby/few > > > months old) > > > > > > 2. How often do you do 25% PWC's? - Once a week > > > > > > 3. How often do you do filter maintenance? Once a month (and after > > doing it > > > the wrong way the first time, I read your blog & do know the proper > > way to > > > clean filter!) :) > > > > > > 4. What kind of lighting does the tank have? 2 florescent bulbs, 10w > > each > > > (the kind that look like 2 "U" shaped bulbs in one) > > > > > > 5. Does it get any sunlight? It gets some morning sun, but I can start > > to > > > keep the blinds closed. I thought the natural light would be good - > > oops > > > > > > 6. Test numbers a/o tonight after doing 25% PWC: > > > NH3 = 0 > > > NO2 = <0.3 > > > NO-3 = 40 > > > PH = 7.0 > > > GH = 7 > > > KH = 2 > > > > > > I hope we can figure this out - this stuff is really ugly. :( > > > > > > Thanks! > > > Catherine > > > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>, "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" > > GoldLenny@ > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > You are getting algae. Algae is perfectly normal and grows in nearly > > > > every aquarium but there are things you can do to keep it under > > > > control. It will not hurt your fish as long as it doesn't get to the > > > > point where it completely overtakes the tank. Algae is natural but > > > > when it starts to get out of control, it usually means that you > > might > > > > need to change the way you are maintaining the tank. > > > > > > > > The plant you have is probably a type of Hornwort. See this page and > > > > let us know if this is what you have. > > > > > > > > > > http://www.plantedtank.net/forums/myplants/47-Tropical_Hornwort_Ceratoph\ > <http://www.plantedtank.net/forums/myplants/47-Tropical_Hornwort_Ceratoph>> > yllu > > > <http://www.plantedtank.net/forums/myplants/47-Tropical_Hornwort_Ceratophyllu > <http://www.plantedtank.net/forums/myplants/47-Tropical_Hornwort_Ceratophyllu>> > > > m_submersum.html > > > > > > > > In the future, DO NOT buy any kind of fish or plant without doing > > > > research first to make sure you are getting something that is > > > > compatible with your tank, water, etc... but this is probably not an > > > > issue in this case. Since you have a 10G tank, see my blog article > > > > about compatible fish and stocking recommendations for a 10G tank so > > > > you will have a quick guide of which fish are compatible with your > > > > tank if you do decide to change things around in the future. > > > > > > > > Is the plant growing from what you can tell or is it possibly dying > > off? > > > > > > > > Tell us more about your tank maintenance and the tank in general. > > How > > > > many fish? What kind of fish? How often do you do 25% PWC's (partial > > > > water changes)? How often do you do filter maintenance? While on the > > > > topic of filter maintenance, read my long blog article about proper > > > > "Filter Cleaning and Maintenance" so you do not make some of these > > > > common mistakes. What kind of lighting does the tank have? Does it > > get > > > > any sunlight, since sunlight will cause algae much faster than other > > > > lighting so you do NOT really want any direct sunlight? > > > > > > > > Do you happen to have any test kits for things like ammonia, > > nitrite, > > > > nitrate, pH, etc? If you do, give us those test results in numbers > > > > (Note that OK or Safe are not numbers. ;-)). > > > > > > > > There's a lot more to ask but I'll wait for your answers. > > > > > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>> > (Links to any articles > > > > referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, > > alphabetically > > > > under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) > > > > > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] > > > > On Behalf Of cat.rose > > > > Sent: Saturday, November 07, 2009 9:39 AM > > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > Subject: [AquaticLife] Plants growing black hair - eek. > > > > > > > > Hey all! > > > > > > > > Things have been going good here with my 10 gal FW tank. About a > > month > > > > or more ago I bought sone new plants at PetSmart: don't know the > > name > > > > but they're fluffy, kind of angel hairy types, bright green. > > > > > > > > Well a couple weeks ago I was doing my PWC and noticed what looked > > > > like clumps of my roommate's black hair in the tank. Since I'm the > > > > only one who ever cleans the tank, I was very confused as to how > > this > > > happened as I'm pretty meticulous with the tank/fish. > > > > > > > > Well, it seems these plants are "growing" long black "hair"! It > > > > doesn't seem like the plant is dying and turning black because the > > > > black hairs are much longer than the green parts. It looks kind of > > > > gross, and the hairs are breaking off or something cuz they're not > > > > just on the live plants but bits scattered around the tank too. > > > > > > > > Should I immediately take out the plants and throw them out? Can it > > > > hurt my fish? I'm sure it's clogging up the filter, which I probably > > > > need to clean now too. > > > > > > > > Looks rather frightening in there now... > > > > > > > > Thanks! > > > > Catherine > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > > > ------------------------------------ > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. > ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> > PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT > important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message > MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- > <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. > > If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of unsubscribing, > you can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My > Membership" on the home page. > > Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:aquaticlife-digest%40yahoogroups.com> to receive the digest, > which includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email > > Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:aquaticlife-nomail%40yahoogroups.com> for the No E-Mail option > where you will still be able to read messages on the group and post > replies. > > Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:aquaticlife-normal%40yahoogroups.com> to receive individual > e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 44427	From: Donna Ransome	Date: 11/11/2009
Subject: Re: Why am I getting these weird messages to this address?

Legitimate question. Here is what it looks like. I've gotten maybe half dozen of these over the last couple days: (There is more, but hopefully this will give you the idea.) R6BbIk_TOIW0yRKMSSUqGYEEvYO93d5dwihO4yFSxSajXxdeuvwiy4q1hTkIRm7pzCKU5ps0NvmC KSGWlkpYYiG4YVrgpGJoSwVL.pB4eb3yRhqaQabTL7mJNYGdnt.dONGY6J3BXXgDcsTS_MP_7APv hKmdp4DA4n34jY0js4Ly8zY1nWOGZbKybPRssD99x3kUBoqDmR5IqbkSd8- X-Received: from [72.70.208.210] by web45112.mail.sp1.yahoo.com via HTTP; Wed, 11 Nov 2009 07:38:27 PST X-Mailer: YahooMailClassic/8.1.6 YahooMailWebService/0.7.361.4 To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com In-Reply-To: <9F5597BD59E74213B3E087F5E376EEEF@LVDESKTOP> X-Originating-IP: 68.180.197.148 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 2:4:8:0:2 From: bill 1433 <warrenprint@...> X-Yahoo-Profile: warrenprint Sender: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Mailing-List: list AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com; contact AquaticLife-owner@yahoogroups.com Delivered-To: mailing list AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com List-Id: <AquaticLife.yahoogroups.com> Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: < <mailto:AquaticLife-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com> mailto:AquaticLife-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com> Date: Wed, 11 Nov 2009 07:38:27 -0800 (PST) Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: wisteria/lighting previous question/response revisited Reply-To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: groups-email-ff-m Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="w73BVY8hfJ71PIIRpG706SKFxOHorY0hn30bZMq" --w73BVY8hfJ71PIIRpG706SKFxOHorY0hn30bZMq Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable I'd like to extend a big "THANK YOU" to=20 "Amber Berglund" on group for opening this can of worms! Thanks Again Amber! Bill <g> ya did it again girl! _____ From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Lenny V. aka GoldLenny Sent: Wednesday, November 11, 2009 9:16 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Why am I getting these weird messages to this address? Donna, Is this your way of saying "Get back on topic boys!" or were you asking about the snip of header info that you posted? I can't tell if you're being sarcastic towards us about bringing up Bookmarks and browser stuff... or asking a legitimate question. LOL Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Donna Ransome Sent: Wednesday, November 11, 2009 6:54 PM To: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Why am I getting these weird messages to this address? sentto-8495157- <mailto:sentto-8495157-44406-1257953244-djransome%3Doptonline.net%40returns. groups.yahoo> 44406-1257953244-djransome=optonline.net@... .com It seems to be associated with aquatic life. This one eventually was from Bill with a bunch of stuff in the header first. _____ From: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Steve Szabo Sent: Wednesday, November 11, 2009 6:43 AM To: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: wisteria/lighting previous question/response revisited Lenny, I don't need no steenkin' hack. In Firefox, the bookmarks are kept as they should be, as one file, not each bookmark in a separate file gobbling up disk space as IE does. It also eats up space in the MFT (Master File Table). (SNIPPED) [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 44428	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 11/11/2009
Subject: Re: Why am I getting these weird messages to this address?

Donna, I'd venture that something is munging the messages along the way from Yahoo! to you. Unless this is happening to others here, it probably is not a Yahoo! problem, but occurring at a point closer to you. Do all your messages come in this way? If not is it happening to just Yahoo! messages, or is it just those from this list? \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Donna Ransome Sent: Wednesday, November 11, 2009 7:54 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Why am I getting these weird messages to this address? sentto-8495157-44406-1257953244-djransome=optonline.net@... .com It seems to be associated with aquatic life. This one eventually was from Bill with a bunch of stuff in the header first. _____ From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Steve Szabo Sent: Wednesday, November 11, 2009 6:43 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: wisteria/lighting previous question/response revisited Lenny, I don't need no steenkin' hack. In Firefox, the bookmarks are kept as they should be, as one file, not each bookmark in a separate file gobbling up disk space as IE does. It also eats up space in the MFT (Master File Table). For those who do not know about such things, when a drive is formatted to hold data, it is broken up into groups of sectors, known as clusters, the value of which defaults, in Windows, to 4K (4096 bytes). They can be any value from 512 bytes to at least 32K (it may be even larger now, with NTFS (new technology file system, but 32K was the limit under 16 bit DOS). When a file is written to disk, using 4K cluster size for the example, it takes up as many clusters as needed. So, a file that is 32K in size would use 8 clusters (4K x 8). A file that is 28K would use 7 clusters (28 k/4K=7). However, a file that is 29K would use 8 clusters. It would fill the 7 clusters, with an extra 1024 bytes, which are placed in the next, or 8th cluster, leaving 3K of that cluster as being unavailable to another file. Consider now, that each bookmark is generally less than 1K (1024 bytes). When you are using IE (Internet Explorer), that means that you are wasting 3K of each available cluster to store the bookmark as a file. Let us assume you have 400 bookmarks. I am sure you can do the math. That would mean that you have 400 files, each taking up 4K of disk space, meaning that you are using 1600K to store those files. This means that 400 entries are placed in the MFT. In the case of Firefox, and other browsers not based on IE, all the bookmarks are stored in a file. Say that you have the same 400 bookmarks, using 1K as the size of each bookmark, on average, that would mean that you have a file that is 400K in size, which (conveniently, it seems) works out to a 100K file, stored in 25 clusters and 1 entry in the MFT. A great savings in disk space. There are other issues to consider here as well, but I am sure you are plenty bored by know. However, (oh no!, he's going to say more even though he said he was done) please keep in mind that drive manufacturers use a decimal system to calculate drive sizes, so that 250GB drive you have in your box is not 250GB to the computer, which uses a binary system to calculate drive size. That is why, when you look at the drive size through your operating system, the drive appears to be smaller than advertised. It's kind of like that 55 gallon tank that actually holds less than 55 gallons. Tank measurements are measuring the outside dimensions of the tank not the inside dimensions, plus, none of use fills a tank right to the top of the tank, giving us an actual capacity of somewhat less than 55 gallons, and that is before we add substrate and decorations, fish, and plants to the tank, each displacing a certain amount of water. (You may insert your own Archimedes joke here.) (Notice how I actually brought this back onto an aquarium topic?) \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Lenny V. aka GoldLenny Sent: Wednesday, November 11, 2009 1:30 AM To: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: wisteria/lighting previous question/response revisited Yeah... I keep kind of hoping that Google will eventually provide an online "Bookmarks/Favorites" service or homepage add-in, which would also include a search feature and maybe even a way to scan for bad links in the Bookmarks/Favorites instead of finding out when you go to use that long kept bookmark/favorite and the site no longer exists... of course, there's always the Wayback Machine at the Internet Archive http://www.archive. <http://www.archive.org> org to find websites/pages that have disappeared from the net. I regularly go into my IE Favorites and use the "Organize Favorites" feature to move things around but also will use Windows Explorer, C:\Documents and Settings\Owner\Favorites\, to look at my Favorites folder and drag and drop, move and rename things around in there. Then, there is this Registry hack to mass sort the Favorites folder, sub-folders and files, instead of having to "Sort By Name" inside each folder. From http://www.theelder <http://www.theeldergeek.com/sort_favorites_menu_alphabetical.htm> geek.com/sort_favorites_menu_alphabetical.htm (with some added instructions by me to clarify some things). Sort Favorites Menu Alphabetically [Start] [Run] [Regedit] Registry Key: HKEY_CURRENT_USER\Software\Microsoft\Windows\CurrentVersion\Explorer\MenuOrd er\Favorites (Click on Favorites to highlight, then in the view panel) Right click the Favorites key *Order* and click Delete Exit registry and reboot. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Steve Szabo Sent: Tuesday, November 10, 2009 11:43 PM To: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: wisteria/lighting previous question/response revisited Lenny, I have a couple of problems. First, I do have a lot of folders and sub folders for things, and try to use them. However, I can also be pressed for time, and just bookmark it, thinking I'll fix it later. Somehow, later comes even later than one would expect, and when it does arrive, I do a bunch, but never finish going through the list. The other problem is that what made sense at the time, may not make sense when I am looking for the bookmark, possible because I a thinking about the topic in a different way than when I bookmarked the site. It is kind of like how one searches the web. If your first key words do not provide what you are looking for, you modify those terms and search again. Same topic, a bit different way of looking at it. Eventually, you will get what you want. What I probably need is a bookmark search engine. For those of you who were born and weaned with Windows, bookmarks is the correct term, not Microsoft's Favorites, though, I must admit, it is possible to have favorite bookmarks. \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Lenny V. aka GoldLenny Sent: Tuesday, November 10, 2009 11:57 PM To: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: wisteria/lighting previous question/response revisited Bookmarks and Favorites are filing systems... if you don't know how/where it's filed, you won't find it anyhow. I have an extensive Favorites folder with dozens of primary folders and then dozens if not hundreds of sub-folders and sub-sub-folders, for example, under Favorites, I have 59 primary folders and one of them is called Aquarium Sites, then, in that folder, I have 44 alphabetized sub-folders just in that folder, from Additives and Algae to Tutorials-Quizzes and UGF Filters (no V,W,X,Y,Z sub-folders under Aquarium... not sure why not). Then in the Algae folder, I have 7 sub-sub-folders dealing with topics such as Algae Eaters, Allelopathic Control, Diatoms-Brown Algae, Hair Algae, Hydrogen Peroxide, Pond Algae, SeaChem Flourish Excel For Treating Algae and then 11 other favorites about Algae in general, for a total of 48 links, just about Algae. My Favorites folder, when looking at its Properties, is 1.41MB in size and consists of 2,057 files (links) and 306 folders (incl. sub and sub-sub folders) in totality. Many years of surfing and saving and starting off with an organizational plan from the start makes it easy for me to navigate and find things easily. My Favorites is like a mini-Google. ;-) I have been toying around with the idea of using a web resource to keep my Favorites folder online so I can sync it with all of my computers and/or just use it as an online Favorites folder that I can log into from any computer. For now, I use LogMeIn (Free) to connect to my main computer from my laptop when I'm out in the streets playing... oops.. I meant working. But I don't think I'd share my Favorites or then I'd have to go in and edit out all my favorite porn links... well, maybe not for Bill. LOL Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Amber Berglund Sent: Tuesday, November 10, 2009 10:25 PM To: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: wisteria/lighting previous question/response revisited No worries Bill, I do the same thing, maybe Lenny will be so kind as to send us all his bookmarks? LOL Amber bill 1433 wrote: > > Yes, Amber > > It was I, looking for the original information and also looked back on > \\Steve//'s post at group to try and find. Ray had mentioned all this > the other day saying that he thought the posting came from \\Steve//. > > I was not successful in my search. Also, for me the most important > part was a link to a chart which showed you exactly, or explained > exactly the "T" factor stands for. For instance, T-4 would be a tube > that is a half inch wide, or close to it-----------I think. All this > is my own fault. In my interest to acquire and learn about lighting,I > went through and studied the applied links but being ol'bill, I never > bookmarked them. Then to further compound the problem, I deleted the > original message that it came from. In hind-sight you could probably > chalk this all up to felonious stupidity on my part. > > Bill---where its always a good day if I learn something new! > > --- On Tue, 11/10/09, Amber Berglund <arberglund@gmail. <mailto:arberglund%40gmail.com> com > <mailto:arberglund%40gmail.com>> wrote: > > From: Amber Berglund <arberglund@gmail. <mailto:arberglund%40gmail.com> com > <mailto:arberglund%40gmail.com>> > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: wisteria/lighting previous > question/response revisited > To: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Date: Tuesday, November 10, 2009, 9:30 PM > > I believe it was Steve who posted a link about lumens months back when > (I think it was maybe Bill asking) about lighting for planted aquariums. > Plants require 2 different spectrums of light to properly produce > either leaves or flowers (red is more for flower production and blue > is more for growth, but for the best growing you want a mixture of BOTH colors). > So in reality you would want a light that appears more brown/reddish > in coloring and a blue/white coloring as well, but they now have bulbs > that have BOTH spectrums built in (I'm sure they don't work as well as > it would to have 2 different bulbs one mostly red and the other mostly > blue on the color spectrum). > Let me see if I still have the link bookmarked. > What I was trying to say is that Kelvin does not tell you what color > spectrum the light REALLY is, it's actually measuring it's light > output color according to how the human eyes perceive it. So 6500 > kelvin in general is what most plants will prefer because that is a > mixture of both red and blue spectrums (In MOST bulbs) unfortunately > not all light bulb manufactures have to use the exact same chart for > their colors, so they will have different colors than another bulb > that says it's 6500 Kelvin. what you really need to read is the color > chart on the box, not what lumens it says it is. > (still searching for link, LOL). > > This isn't the right link but it discusses the kelvin/lumen problems a > little bit, still looking for the link that showed the charts and what > to look for in the color charts. > http://www.american <http://www.americanaquariumproducts.com/Aquarium_Lighting.html> aquariumproducts.com/Aquarium_Lighting.html > <http://www.american <http://www.americanaquariumproducts.com/Aquarium_Lighting.html> aquariumproducts.com/Aquarium_Lighting.html> > > Will post again when I find the other link with chart examples. > > Amber > > Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > > > > I think it would be false advertising or possibly mis-advertising > (if they > > do not know any better) if a company lists their bulbs as 6500K and > > they aren't. The Kelvin scale, just like Watts and Lumens, are ALL > > universal and scientifically measurable scales BUT, as I showed > > below, not all 40 watt bulbs put out the same amount of light > > (lumens) or in the same color spectrum (Kelvin rating). All 40 watt > > bulbs, whether incandescent, fluorescent, CFL, LED, Halogen, etc.... > > ALL use only/around 40 watts of electricity but their light output > > can vary dramatically. This is why fluorescent bulbs are so much > > more efficient than incandescent bulbs and CFL's are even more > > efficient... as a 40W fluorescent bulb puts out > a LOT > > more light (lumens) than a 40 watt incandescent bulb and a 40W CFL > > puts out more light (lumens) than a 40W fluorescent bulb. This is > > why the OLD "Watts Per Gallon" rule simply does not work any more. > > > > BUT.. if three different companies are selling standard T-10 > > fluorescent bulbs with the same exact rating of 40W, 3550 lumens and > > 6500K rating... all three of those bulbs should be VERY SIMILAR if > > not identical in the way they appear to our eyes (subject to our own > > degree of color blindness, of > > course!) > > > > In the past, things like "soft white", "warm white", "daylight", > > "plant grow", etc., type terms were used and are still used but > > those are just simple words (not subject to a scientific scale) to > > describe the Kelvin rating ranges but lumens are just as important > > since a bulb could have a 6500K rating with only 2200 lumens where > > another bulb could have a 6500K rating and 3550 or 3700 lumens and > > that bulb would put out over 50% more light (lumens) in the same > > color spectrum (Kelvin rating) so it > would be a > > much more cost effective bulb if it cost the same amount or only a > little > > more. > > > > I'm slightly confused about the "red and blue light for your plants" > > as those two colors are on opposite ends of the Kelvin Scale with > > reds and ambers in the lower numbers and greens and blues in the > > higher > numbers. I > > think this is why you would want a mid-range (5000K to 6500K) bulb > > as those are generally considered "full spectrum" or "daylight" > > bulbs. Here's a color picture of the Kelvin Scale, > > http://www.bltdirec <http://www.bltdirect.com/images/colour-temperature.jpg> t.com/images/colour-temperature.jpg > <http://www.bltdirec <http://www.bltdirect.com/images/colour-temperature.jpg> t.com/images/colour-temperature.jpg> > > <http://www.bltdirec <http://www.bltdirect.com/images/colour-temperature.jpg> t.com/images/colour-temperature.jpg > <http://www.bltdirec <http://www.bltdirect.com/images/colour-temperature.jpg> t.com/images/colour-temperature.jpg>> and you can > > visually > > see that the 5000K to 6500K range is all about the same "color". I > > think this is also why Actinic bulbs are usually higher and closer > > to the > 10000K > > range and up... apparently, the Kelvin lighting scale can go up to > 20,000K > > (according to this article about Reef Tanks > > http://nh.craigslis <http://nh.craigslist.org/for/1423072406.html> t.org/for/1423072406.html > <http://nh.craigslis <http://nh.craigslist.org/for/1423072406.html> t.org/for/1423072406.html> > > <http://nh.craigslis <http://nh.craigslist.org/for/1423072406.html> t.org/for/1423072406.html > <http://nh.craigslis <http://nh.craigslist.org/for/1423072406.html> t.org/for/1423072406.html>> on, of all places, > > Craigslist). > > Here is the page that that the above photo link came from and it has > > a chart that also explains things a little more also and talks about > > the > CRI, yet > > another lighting term (Color Rendition Index). > > http://www.bltdirec <http://www.bltdirect.com/lampColourTemperatures.php> t.com/lampColourTemperatures.php > <http://www.bltdirec <http://www.bltdirect.com/lampColourTemperatures.php> t.com/lampColourTemperatures.php> > > <http://www.bltdirec <http://www.bltdirect.com/lampColourTemperatures.php> t.com/lampColourTemperatures.php > <http://www.bltdirec <http://www.bltdirect.com/lampColourTemperatures.php> t.com/lampColourTemperatures.php>> > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> blogspot.com> <http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> blogspot.com>> > > (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the > > right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by > > Year, > Month) > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > [mailto:AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On Behalf Of Amber Berglund > > Sent: Tuesday, November 10, 2009 4:22 PM > > To: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: wisteria/lighting previous > > question/response revisited > > > > Another thing to consider is one light company's 6500 kelvin rating > > may not be identical to another light bulb from a different company > > that's rated the same. The important thing to look at is the color > > chart they show on the boxes, you want more red and blue light for > > your plants, green is not useful or harmful as the plants reflect > > the light back (makes them appear more green but does nothing else > > for them). The kelvin rating is based on our eyes and how they > > perceive color, so each company doesn't have to be identical, > > perhaps some day they will have a universal way to measure light > > spectrums on bulbs that is much less confusing. > > > > Amber > > > > Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > > > > > > OK. So you have a total of 80 watts right now, which is just over > > > 1 WPG, which means you only have enough lighting for low-light, > > > easy to grow plants. See my blog article "Planted Tank: So You > > > Want A Planted Tank" for links to lists of low-light, easy to grow > > > plants that will do OK in your tank. You should replace those tubes at least yearly... > > > although some say every six months. As far as I know, a 40W bulb > > > is the highest wattage made for this type of bulb/fixture right > > > now but you can increase your lighting > > > (lumens) and K (Kelvin) rating. See below. > > > > > > NOTE - below links are for example/informational purposes only, as > > > I know nothing about the sites. God... did I just say that? Do I > > > really have to add disclaimers to my posts now? LOL Just laughing at myself. > > > LOL > > > > > > This may be your Sylvania bulb... > > > http://www.lightbul <http://www.lightbulbemporium.com/proddetail.asp?prod=F40/EX50> bemporium.com/proddetail.asp?prod=F40/EX50 > <http://www.lightbul <http://www.lightbulbemporium.com/proddetail.asp?prod=F40/EX50> bemporium.com/proddetail.asp?prod=F40/EX50> > > <http://www.lightbul <http://www.lightbulbemporium.com/proddetail.asp?prod=F40/EX50> bemporium.com/proddetail.asp?prod=F40/EX50 > <http://www.lightbul <http://www.lightbulbemporium.com/proddetail.asp?prod=F40/EX50> bemporium.com/proddetail.asp?prod=F40/EX50>> > > > <http://www.lightbul <http://www.lightbulbemporium.com/proddetail.asp?prod=F40/EX50> bemporium.com/proddetail.asp?prod=F40/EX50 > <http://www.lightbul <http://www.lightbulbemporium.com/proddetail.asp?prod=F40/EX50> bemporium.com/proddetail.asp?prod=F40/EX50> > > <http://www.lightbul <http://www.lightbulbemporium.com/proddetail.asp?prod=F40/EX50> bemporium.com/proddetail.asp?prod=F40/EX50 > <http://www.lightbul <http://www.lightbulbemporium.com/proddetail.asp?prod=F40/EX50> bemporium.com/proddetail.asp?prod=F40/EX50>>> and > if > > > it is, then it's the same ratings as the specs in the T-10 bulb > > > that I copy/pasted below, which is a pretty good bulb with higher > > > lumens and the higher K rating, although not a 6500K rated bulb. > > > At the bottom of this page, there was a link to this bulb... > > > > > > http://www.lightbul <http://www.lightbulbemporium.com/maxlite_51204_ml_f40t10_850_rscg.asp> bemporium.com/maxlite_51204_ml_f40t10_850_rscg.asp > <http://www.lightbul <http://www.lightbulbemporium.com/maxlite_51204_ml_f40t10_850_rscg.asp> bemporium.com/maxlite_51204_ml_f40t10_850_rscg.asp > > > > > <http://www.lightbul <http://www.lightbulbemporium.com/maxlite_51204_ml_f40t10_850_rscg.asp> bemporium.com/maxlite_51204_ml_f40t10_850_rscg.asp > <http://www.lightbul <http://www.lightbulbemporium.com/maxlite_51204_ml_f40t10_850_rscg.asp> bemporium.com/maxlite_51204_ml_f40t10_850_rscg.asp > >> > > > > > > <http://www.lightbul <http://www.lightbulbemporium.com/maxlite_51204_ml_f40t10_850_rscg.asp> bemporium.com/maxlite_51204_ml_f40t10_850_rscg.asp > <http://www.lightbul <http://www.lightbulbemporium.com/maxlite_51204_ml_f40t10_850_rscg.asp> bemporium.com/maxlite_51204_ml_f40t10_850_rscg.asp > > > > > <http://www.lightbul <http://www.lightbulbemporium.com/maxlite_51204_ml_f40t10_850_rscg.asp> bemporium.com/maxlite_51204_ml_f40t10_850_rscg.asp > <http://www.lightbul <http://www.lightbulbemporium.com/maxlite_51204_ml_f40t10_850_rscg.asp> bemporium.com/maxlite_51204_ml_f40t10_850_rscg.asp > >> > > > > > > > which > > > has an even higher lumen rating of 3700, although not much higher > > > than the 3550 rating but every little bit helps especially since > > > the MaxLite bulb was a lower price than the Sylvania bulb. > > > > > > As you will see on this page > > > > > > http://www.lightbul <http://www.lightbulbsdirect.com/Merchant2/merchant.mvc?page=001/CTGY/F> bsdirect.com/Merchant2/merchant.mvc?page=001/CTGY/F > <http://www.lightbul <http://www.lightbulbsdirect.com/Merchant2/merchant.mvc?page=001/CTGY/> bsdirect.com/Merchant2/merchant.mvc?page=001/CTGY/ > F> > > > <http://www.lightbul <http://www.lightbulbsdirect.com/Merchant2/merchant.mvc?page=001/CTGY/> bsdirect.com/Merchant2/merchant.mvc?page=001/CTGY/ > F > <http://www.lightbul <http://www.lightbulbsdirect.com/Merchant2/merchant.mvc?page=001/CTGY/> bsdirect.com/Merchant2/merchant.mvc?page=001/CTGY/ > F>> > > > S+Fluo > > > > > > <http://www.lightbul <http://www.lightbulbsdirect.com/Merchant2/merchant.mvc?page=001/CTGY/> bsdirect.com/Merchant2/merchant.mvc?page=001/CTGY/ > <http://www.lightbul <http://www.lightbulbsdirect.com/Merchant2/merchant.mvc?page=001/CTGY/> bsdirect.com/Merchant2/merchant.mvc?page=001/CTGY/ > > > > > <http://www.lightbul <http://www.lightbulbsdirect.com/Merchant2/merchant.mvc?page=001/CTGY/> bsdirect.com/Merchant2/merchant.mvc?page=001/CTGY/ > <http://www.lightbul <http://www.lightbulbsdirect.com/Merchant2/merchant.mvc?page=001/CTGY/> bsdirect.com/Merchant2/merchant.mvc?page=001/CTGY/ > >> > > > FS+Fluo> > > > rescent > > > > > > The second bulb down would be similar to yours, except we do not > > > know the lumen or color spectrum rating on your bulb, unless that > > > link I gave above is actually your bulb and then it would be the > > > same as this one. The specs on it are: > > > > > > T-10 Fluorescent > > > 40 Watts > > > Length: 48" > > > Medium Bi-Pin Base > > > Color: 5000K Temperature > > > Initial Lumens: 3550 > > > CRI: 84 > > > Average Life: 20,000 Hours > > > > > > The Color spectrum of 5000K (Kelvin) is OK but 6500K would be much > > better. > > > The Lumens of 3550 is the actual amount of *light* > > > > > > The next bulb down from that one is a T-12, which will also fit in > > > your fixture but they are bigger diameter bulbs and this one > > > actually puts out less light (lumens). Here are the specs: > > > > > > T-12 Fluorescent > > > 40 Watts > > > Length: 48" > > > Base: Medium Bi-Pin Base > > > Initial Lumens: 2200 > > > Average Life: 20,000 Hours > > > Color Temperature: 5000K > > > CRI: 92 > > > > > > It has the same Color spectrum but only 2200 lumens so the above > > > T-10 bulb has around 50% more lumens (light) coming out of it. > > > > > > Now, if you scroll down to the second from the bottom on the page, > > > you'll see the Verilux Instant-Sun T-12 bulb which has a higher > > > Kelvin rating but it doesn't list the lumens so this needs to be > > > checked out further. While the higher K rating is good, if it goes > > > back down to only 2200 lumens, instead of the 3550 lumens of the > > > first referenced bulb above, then I would probably go with the > > > 3550 lumens, 5000K bulb over the 6280K bulb if the lumens were a LOT less. > > > > > > (START SNIP) > > > Engineered to reproduce all the colors and balance of natural > > > light, VeriluxR full spectrum fluorescent tubes feature Trucolite > > > Phosphor TechnologyT which includes the use of a stable, custom > > > blend of earth phosphors that create bright, balanced full spectrum light. > > > T-12 Fluorescent > > > 40 Watts > > > Length: 48" > > > Color Temperature: 6280K > > > CRI: 94 > > > Medium Bi-Pin Base > > > (END SNIP) > > > > > > So, as you can see, there's a few things to look for when shopping > > > for new replacement bulbs. Look for the 5000K to 6500K bulbs with > > > the higher lumen rating for the dollar and you should be good. > > > Note that a 3550 or 3700 lumen bulb will put out nearly twice as > > > much light as a 2000 lumen bulb so it can be easy to increase your > > > lighting without increasing the wattage. DO NOT try to use HO or > > > VHO bulbs... which look similar but have much higher wattage, well > > > over the 40W bulbs you now have. These other HO and VHO bulbs have > > > different pin arrangements so they will not fit in your fixture > > > anyhow but I just wanted to save you a trip. > > > > > > Last but not least, if you're handy, you could even take the bulbs > > > out of your fixtures and line the insides of your fixtures with > > > nice and crisp and flat aluminum foil (shiny side exposed) which > > > will also help. Using double stick tape and then carefully > > > applying the foil so it does not wrinkle too much will work > > > well... especially if the inside of your fixture is black. A white > > > reflector is good but a mirrored reflector, like that created by > > > the shiny side of foil, is MUCH better than a black reflector. > > > Most black fixtures do at least have white reflector areas. > > > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> blogspot.com> > > <http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> blogspot.com>> > > > <http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> blogspot.com>>> > > (Links to any articles referenced in > > > above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under > > > Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > From: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > [mailto:AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On Behalf Of > > > erikaandnewton > > > Sent: Tuesday, November 10, 2009 10:17 AM > > > To: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: wisteria/lighting previous > > > question/response revisited > > > > > > << When you say "two strips" do you have two 4' long two-bulb > > > fixtures already or something else?>> > > > > > > i have two 4' single bulb strip lights. > > > > > > >> What kind of lighting do you currently have? Look at the bulbs > > > >> and there should be some kind of writing on one of the ends. > > > >> Give us that info if you cannot decipher it yourself.<< > > > > > > one bulb is a f40 t10 > > > the other one is a sylvania daylight bulb also f40 > > > > > > >> It's probably 21" tall, since a common measurement for a 75G is > > > >> 48"x18"x21" Tall.>> > > > > > > it is 21 inches tall > > > > > > erika wilmington de usa [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 44429	From: Jade	Date: 11/11/2009
Subject: Re: Aquarium heater sedimentation?

Lenny: (answers in parenthesis) How long have you had your tank set up? (About two years now) Do you have this "brown substance) on the gravel, other decorations, glass, etc? (No I do not) Give us more details about your tank. Size, stocking, fish species, etc.(Size - 20 gal long, stocking 9 adult guppies and 2 adolescents.) Give us a little info on your fish keeping skills also. (I've been raising live-bearers for the better part of 12 years now... clarify skills?) What is your pH level and why do you think it is high? Contrary to some of the bottles of crap that some stores sell, you do NOT need a pH of 7.0 in order to keep fish and in fact, a higher or lower pH is often better for many species of fish. (My PH is 8.0, according to the water tester from API (Not the sticks!!! Vials with the drops... noted far more accurate) I am well aware you don't need a flat ph of 7.0 and in fact some species of freshwater fish prefer high-end PH. Guppies themselves prefer about 7.5)) How did you crack your heater by cleaning it? Did you drop it or something? I can't imagine scrubbing it with a brush would break it unless it already had a fracture or stress crack. (Negative, I didn't drop it, I was using a semi-dull knife to try to get the brown stuff off - the same that is on this heater, and it simply just cracked.) ------------ Steve: Thanks for the tip, I'll try to give it a go when I can get the razor. Right now I can't afford that much less a new heater. So I think I'll hold off just a bit until I can afford BOTH, just in case, hehe. ------------- Donna: These unfortunately don't just brush away. Sometimes small, solid chunks will fall off, but it's rare. --------- To All : Took a to give you guys some reference as to what it looks like. The brown thing on the top left is a lily pad, just so you know. See photo link below. http://i352.photobucket.com/albums/r329/Tehzedaj/Picture60.jpg --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@...> wrote: > > How long have you had your tank set up? Do you have this "brown substance) > on the gravel, other decorations, glass, etc? > > Give us more details about your tank. Size, stocking, fish species, etc. > Give us a little info on your fish keeping skills also. > > What is your pH level and why do you think it is high? Contrary to some of > the bottles of crap that some stores sell, you do NOT need a pH of 7.0 in > order to keep fish and in fact, a higher or lower pH is often better for > many species of fish. > > How did you crack your heater by cleaning it? Did you drop it or something? > I can't imagine scrubbing it with a brush would break it unless it already > had a fracture or stress crack. > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right > side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) > > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On > Behalf Of Jade > Sent: Sunday, November 08, 2009 9:29 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Subject: [AquaticLife] Aquarium heater sedimentation? > > I have a hard light brown (tanish) substance covering the tube of my > aquarium heater... is this sediment? I was wondering if that's what's > causing my high Ph (there's absolutely nothing else in there that could do > it...). How do I clean it off? I've had the problem before... and in > attempts to clean it the heater actually cracked (thankfully it wasn't in > the tank at the time.) > > Any ideas/suggestions/help would be appreciated :) >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 44430	From: Dr. Norman Ali Bassam Khalaf	Date: 11/11/2009
Subject: A Longcomb Sawfish caught off the coast of Dibba, United Arab Emirat

A Longcomb Sawfish (Pristis zijsron Bleeker, 1851) caught off the coast of Dibba, United Arab Emirates, Gulf of Oman.* By: Dr. Sc. Norman Ali Bassam Ali Taher Khalaf-Sakerfalke von Jaffa. Website: http://dibba-sawfish.webs.com/ *Note: This article was published in "Gazelle : The Palestinian Biological Bulletin" (ISSN 0178 - 6288). Twenty-seventh Year, Number 88, April 2009, Rabi'e Al Thani 1430, pp. 1 - 14. A Longcomb Sawfish (Pristis zijsron Bleeker, 1851) was caught off the coast of Dibba, United Arab Emirates, Gulf of Oman on 08/03/2009. The sawfish is called locally by different Arabic names: Samak Al-Sayyaf, Sayyaf, Abu Saif, Sayyafah, Samak Al-Minshar (Sawfish), Abu Minshar, Samak Al-Minshar thu Al-Misht Al-Taweel (Longcomb Sawfish); and Capak (by the Indians in the U.A.E). The Longcomb Sawfish (Pristis zijsron Bleeker, 1851): Common Names: Arabic (Emirates and Oman): Sayyaf, Abu Saif, Abu Minshar. English: Longcomb Sawfish, Narrowsnout Sawfish, Green Sawfish. French: Poisson-scie, Requin scie. Spanish: Pejepeine, Pez Sierra. Sindhi (Pakistan): Wakhan. Tamil (India): Vella-sorrah, Vezha. Taxonomic Notes: The genus Pristis is taxonomically chaotic with uncertainty regarding the true number of valid species. The practical difficulties associated with resolving these taxonomic issues are acute, since it is extremely difficult to obtain specimens or tissue samples from these increasingly rare species for taxonomic research. P. zijsron is a member of the `Pristis pectinata complex', probably also containing P. clavata, with narrow-based, less tapered, lighter rostral saws, with more numerous (usually over 23), smaller teeth than species of the Pristis pristis complex. Red List Category: Critically Endangered. Year Assessed: 2006. Assessors: Compagno, L.J.V., Cook, S.F. & Oetinger, M.I. Justification: A very large, formerly common, Indo-West Pacific sawfish recorded mainly in inshore marine habitats, also reported from freshwater. Like all sawfishes, it is extremely vulnerable to capture by target and bycatch fishing throughout its range, which has contracted significantly as a result. All populations are now very seriously depleted, with records having become extremely infrequent over the last 30 to 40 years. Range Description: This Indo-Pacific species has been recorded from South Africa to the Arabian/Persian Gulf, Indian subcontinent, Southeast Asia and the Indo-Australian Archipelago. Freshwater records have been made from Thailand, possibly in the Tachin River and Songkhla Lake (where the species has not been recorded for many years), Malaysia, Indonesia (Kalimantan at Bandjermassing, Java and Ternate Islands) and in Australia from Queensland in Lake Macquarie, and New South Wales in the Clarence River. Contraction of the range of this species has been reported in Australia, where green sawfish once occurred at least as far south as Sydney, but now are virtually extinct in New South Wales and are very rarely found south of Townsville, and in South Africa, where sawfishes are apparently no longer resident in areas such as Lake St Lucia. Countries: Native: Australia (New South Wales, Queensland); Cambodia; China; India; Indonesia (Java, Kalimantan); Malaysia; Mauritius; Mozambique; Myanmar; Oman; Emirates; Pakistan; Papua New Guinea; Somalia; South Africa; Sri Lanka; Thailand; Viet Nam. FAO Marine Fishing Areas: Native: Western Indian Ocean; eastern Indian Ocean; northwest Pacific; western central Pacific. Population: No information available on original population size or abundance, but this formerly common very large sawfish has undergone significant contraction of its range and a huge decline in abundance in areas where it is still reported to occur. Population Trend: Decreasing. Habitat and Ecology: Pristis zijsron inhabits muddy bottom habitats and enters estuaries. It has been recorded in inshore marine waters to at least 40 m depth, in brackish water (estuaries and coastal lakes) and in rivers. This species was frequently found in shallow water. Its habitat is heavily fished and often also subject to pollution, habitat loss and degradation from coastal, riverine and catchment developments. This is the largest sawfish species, growing to at least 5 m and possibly over 7.3 meters long. Males are mature by 430 cm. It is ovoviviparous, giving birth to large young. It was suggested that adult males use their saws during mating battles. Sawfishes generally feed on slow-moving shoaling fish such as mullet, which are stunned by sideswipes of the snout. Molluscs and small crustaceans are also swept out of the sand and mud by the saw. A male captured as a juvenile survived 35 years in captivity. Systems: Freshwater; Marine. Major Threats: This species has been exploited intensively, both as a target species and as incidental bycatch in commercial, sport or shark-control net fisheries and for aquarium display throughout its range. As a result of past landings, combined with its strongly K-selected life history pattern, it has become severely depleted in recent decades and now appears to have been extirpated from many parts of its range, including South Africa, Sri Lanka and Malaysia. It also has not been seen in some of its former freshwater habitats (i.e., Songklha Lake, (Malay Peninsula) Thailand for some 30 to 40 years. The species is probably now only easy to find in Australia, where it is commonly entangled in net gear set for barramundi (Lates calcarifer), considered a good eating species for human consumption and finds ready markets where landed. Even in Australia, the species has declined significantly in range and abundance. In the past, net fishermen working the muddy estuaries of the Queensland coastline found high bycatch of Pristis zijsron to be a serious problem, even though the meat was high quality and marketed. An average of 0.0020 Pristis zijsron (standard deviation of 0.0020) per hour trawled per km of headrope length (n/h/km) were taken as bycatch in the Northern Prawn Fishery in the Gulf of Carpentaria in 1997 to 1998. In the Moreton Bay area there have been no reports of this species since the 1960s. It has also been extremely rare anywhere on the east coast of Australia in the last 25 to 30 years, with no new specimens having been secured by museum and research institute collections. Conservation Actions: India's Ministry of Environment and Forests has protected sawfishes under the Wildlife Protection Act (WPA) 1972 since 2001. This species may occur in the Great Barrier Reef Marine Park, Australia. The species was listed as an Endangered Species in New South Wales (Australia) waters in 1999, under the Fisheries Management Act 1994. Listed as Endangered by the Australian Society for Fish Biology. Nominated and considered for listing as Vulnerable under the Commonwealth's Endangered Species Protection Act 1992, but listing not made because of lack of information. Actions needed: Strict legal protection throughout range; monitoring of bycatch; collection of biological and demographic data from accidental captures and aquarium specimens. References and Internet Websites: A Sawfish caught from Dibba Sea on 08/03/2009. www.tsahel.com/vb/f38/sawshark-capak-580.html Adams, W.F. and C. Wilson (1995). The status of the smalltooth sawfish, Pristis pectinata Latham 1794 (Pristiformes: Pristidae), in the United States. Chondros 6(4):1-5. Bigelow, H.B. and W.C. Schroeder (1953). Sawfishes, guitarfishes, skates and rays. Pp. 1 - 514 in: Tee-Van, J., C.M. Breder, A.E. Parr, W.C. Schroeder, and L.P. Schultz (eds.). Fishes of the Western North Atlantic, Part Two. Mem. Sear Found. Mar. Res. I. Breder, C.M. (1952). On the utility of the saw of the sawfish. Copeia 1952 (2):90 - 91. Catching the sawfish in Dibba. http://sci.jamaa.cc/art23734.html Common names of Pristis zijsron. www.fishbase.org/comnames/CommonNamesList.php?ID=7956&GenusName=Pristis&SpeciesName=zijsron&StockCode=8267 Compagno, L.J.V. and P.R. Last (1999). Pristidae. Sawfishes. p. 1410-1417. In: K.E. Carpenter and V. Niem (eds.) FAO identification guide for fishery purposes. The Living Marine Resources of the Western Central Pacific. FAO, Rome. Compagno, L.J.V., Cook, S.F. & Oetinger, M.I. (2006). Pristis zijsron. In: IUCN 2009. IUCN Red List of Threatened Species. Version 2009.1. <www.iucnredlist.org>. http://forum.te3p.com/279735.html Demersal Fish. www.arabianwildlife.com/nature/marine/fsh02.html Fishbase. Pristis zijsron Longcomb sawfish. www.fishbase.org/Summary/SpeciesSummary.php?ID=7956 GREEN SAWFISH. www.flmnh.ufl.edu/fish/Gallery/Descript/GreenSawfish/GreenSawfish.htm Khalaf, Norman Ali Bassam (1980). Tabie't Al-Talawon fi Al-Haywanat (The Colouration of Animals). Al-Biology Bulletin. Number 1. January 1980, Safar 1401. Biological Society, Kuwait University, State of Kuwait. pp. 4-5. (in Arabic). Khalaf, Norman Ali Bassam (1981). Fawa'ed Alasmak. (The Benefits of Fishes). Al-Biology Magazine, Biological Society, Kuwait University, State of Kuwait. Number 1. Sunday 7.6.1981, 5. Sha'ban 1401. pp. 54-55. (in Arabic). Khalaf, Norman Ali Bassam (1982). Samak Al-Coelacanth (The Coelacanth Fish). Al-Biology Magazine. Number 2. February 1982. Biological Society, Kuwait University, State of Kuwait. pp. 14-15. (in Arabic). Khalaf, Norman (1982). A'maar Al-Haywanat (Animal Ages). Al-Biology Bulletin. Number 18, Third Year, First Semester, Saturday 6.11.1982. 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(in Arabisch / Arabic). http://khalaf.homepage24.de/text_88839638_85658724_59480041_deutsch.html Khalaf, Norman Ali Bassam Ali Taher (2007). Zum 1. Todestag : Eine Persoenlichkeit aus Jaffa, Palaestina / The First Death Anniversary : A Personality from Jaffa, Palestine : Bassam Ali Taher Khalaf (Abu Ali) (1938-2006). Gazelle: Das Palaestinensische Biologische Bulletin. Nummer 62, Februar 2007, Muharram 1428 AH. Seite 11. Sharjah, Vereinigte Arabische Emirate. www.geocities.com/jaffacity/Bassam_Khalaf.html Khalaf-Sakerfalke von Jaffa, Norman Ali Bassam Ali Taher (Gründer) (seit Juni 2007). Yahoo! Deutschland Group: Fauna Palaestina. http://de.groups.yahoo.com/group/Fauna_Palaestina/ Khalaf-Sakerfalke von Jaffa, Norman Ali Bassam Ali Taher (Gründer) (seit August 2007). Haie – Sharks Yahoo! Deutschland Group. http://de.groups.yahoo.com/group/Haie_Sharks/ Khalaf-Sakerfalke von Jaffa, Norman Ali Bassam Ali Taher (Gründer) (seit September 2007). Yahoo! Deutschland Group: Fauna Arabica. http://de.groups.yahoo.com/group/Fauna_Arabica/ Khalaf-Sakerfalke von Jaffa, Norman Ali Bassam Ali Taher (2007). Haywanat Filistin (Fauna of Palestine). Wikipedia, Al-Mawsu'a Al-Hurra (The Free Encyclopedia). Gazelle: The Palestinian Biological Bulletin. Number 69, Twenty-fifth Year, September 2007 CE, Sha'ban 1428 AH. pp. 1-4. (in Arabic). http://ar.wikipedia.org/wiki/%D8%AD%D9%8A%D9%88%D8%A7%D9%86%D8%A7%D8%AA_%D9%81%D9%84%D8%B3%D8%B7%D9%8A%D9%86 Khalaf-Sakerfalke von Jaffa, Dr. Sc. Norman Ali Bassam Ali Taher (2007). A Whale Shark (Rhincodon typus, Smith 1828) caught off the Kuwaiti Coast: The Second Record from the State of Kuwait, Arabian / Persian Gulf. Gazelle: The Palestinian Biological Bulletin. Number 71, November 2007. pp. 1-20. Sharjah, United Arab Emirates. (Abstracts in English and Arabic). http://www.geocities.com/jaffacity/Whale_Shark_Kuwait.html Khalaf-Sakerfalke von Jaffa, Dr. Sc. Norman Ali Bassam Ali Taher (2007). Rhiniodon typus Smith, 1828 or Rhincodon typus Smith, 1829: The Story of a Scientific Name. Gazelle: The Palestinian Biological Bulletin. Number 71, November 2007. pp. 21. Sharjah, United Arab Emirates. http://www.geocities.com/jaffacity/Rhiniodon_Rhincodon.html Khalaf-Sakerfalke von Jaffa, Dr. Sc. Norman Ali Bassam Ali Taher (2007). Whale Sharks in Palestinian Waters: A Whale Shark (Rhincodon typus, Smith 1828) rescued near the Tantura Beach, Carmel Coast, North Palestine: The First Record from the Palestinian Mediterranean Coast. Gazelle: The Palestinian Biological Bulletin. Number 71, November 2007. pp. 22-23. Sharjah, United Arab Emirates. (Abstracts in English and Arabic).http://www.geocities.com/jaffacity/Whale_Shark_Palestine.html Khalaf-Sakerfalke von Jaffa, Dr. Sc. Norman Ali Bassam Ali Taher (2007). Whale Sharks in Palestinian Waters: Whale Sharks (Rhincodon typus, Smith 1828) near Um Al-Rashrash (Eilat) Beach, Gulf of Aqaba, South Palestine: First Records from the Palestinian Red Sea Coast. Gazelle: The Palestinian Biological Bulletin. Number 71, November 2007. pp. 23-26. Sharjah, United Arab Emirates. (Abstract in English and Arabic). http://www.geocities.com/jaffacity/Whale_Shark_Palestine.html Khalaf-Sakerfalke von Jaffa, Dr. Sc. Norman Ali Bassam Ali Taher (2007). An Ocean Sunfish or Common Mola (Mola mola, Linnaeus 1758) caught off the coast of Gaza: The First Record from Palestine, East Mediterranean Sea. Gazelle: The Palestinian Biological Bulletin. Number 72, December 2007, pp. 1-16. (Abstracts in English and Arabic).http://www.geocities.com/jaffacity/Gaza_Ocean_Sunfish.html Dr. Sc. Norman Ali Bassam Ali Taher Khalaf-Sakerfalke von Jaffa, Zoologist, Ecologist and Geologist : The Scientific References (1980-2008). http://www.geocities.com/jaffacity/Khalaf_References.html Khalaf-Sakerfalke von Jaffa, Dr.Sc. Norman Ali Bassam Ali Taher (2009). A Longcomb Sawfish (Pristis zijsron Bleeker, 1851) caught off the coast of Dibba, United Arab Emirates, Gulf of Oman. Gazelle: The Palestinian Biological Bulletin. ISSN 0178 - 6288. Twenty-seventh Year, Number 88, April 2009, Rabi'e Al Thani 1430 AH. pp. 1-14. http://dibba-sawfish.webs.com/ Last, P.R. and J.D. Stevens (1994). Sharks and Rays of Australia. CSIRO, Australia. 513 pp. Ministry of Agriculture and Fisheries, United Arab Emirates & Cultural Foundation, Abu Dhabi (2003). Fishes of the United Arab Emirates (Asmak Al-Emarat Al-Arabia Al-Mutaheda). Cultural Foundation Publications, Abu Dhabi, United Arab Emirates.pps. 255. (in Arabic). National Marine Fisheries Service (2000). Status review of the smalltooth sawfish (Pristis pectinata). Organism: Pristis zijsron. http://ctd.mdibl.org/detail.go?type=taxon&acc=495877 Pristis pectinata Smalltooth Sawfish. http://www.sms.si.edu/irlspec/Pristi_pectin.htm Pristis zijsron Bleeker, 1851. Longcomb sawfish. http://www.eol.org/pages/213650 Pristis zijsron Bleeker, 1851. Longcomb Sawfish. www.discoverlife.org/mp/20o?search=Pristis+zijsron Pristis zijsron. http://animaldiversity.ummz.umich.edu/site/accounts/classification/Pristis_zijsron.html Pristis zijsron (Narrownose Smooth Hound). http://zipcodezoo.com/Animals/P/Pristis_zijsron/ Pristis zijsron Bleeker, 1851. www.itis.gov/servlet/SingleRpt/SingleRpt?search_topic=TSN&search_value=564305 Sawfish. http://kuwaitmarinelife.com/?p=55 SawShark-Capak. www.tsahel.com/vb/f38/sawshark-capak-580.html Simpfendorfer, C.A. (2000). Predicting population recovery rates for endangered Western Atlantic sawfishes using demographic analysis. Environmental Biology of Fishes. 58:371-377. Stehmann, M. (1981). Pristidae. In: W. Fischer, G. Bianchi, and W.B. Scott (eds.) FAO species identification sheets for fishery purposes. Eastern Central Atlantic Fishing Areas 34, 47 (in part). Vol. 5. Strange fish caught in Yanbu, Saudi Arabia. http://www.animalpicturesarchive.com/view.php?tid=2&did=31436 The Sawfish in Dibba. http://www.thelegend.net/vb/t73032.html The IUCN Red List of Threatened Species. Pristis pectinata. www.iucnredlist.org/details/18175 The IUCN Red List of Threatened Species. Pristis zijsron. http://www.iucnredlist.org/details/39393 United Arab Emirates Map. www.cleartrip.com/SmallWorld/maps/wg-united-arab-emirates-3619-400x300.gif Wikipedia. Longcomb sawfish. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Longcomb_sawfish Wikipedia. Pristis zijsron. http://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pristis_zijsron Wikispecies. Pristis zijsron. http://species.wikimedia.org/wiki/Pristis_zijsron

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 44431	From: sevenspringss@wmconnect.com	Date: 11/11/2009
Subject: Re: Why am I getting these weird messages to this address?

Wow, and I thought that I had 'puter problems <g>. That's really weird! I can only add that I'm not receiving encoded messages, so I doubt that anyone's generating (typing) these messages like that. Ray [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 44432	From: Wendie	Date: 11/11/2009
Subject: Re: Why am I getting these weird messages to this address?

It's probably a Yahoo problem as I'm getting them from several different groups. I think it has something to do with the selection of bulk messages rather than individual. Wendie ----- Original Message ----- From: sevenspringss@... To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Wednesday, November 11, 2009 11:28 PM Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Why am I getting these weird messages to this address? Wow, and I thought that I had 'puter problems <g>. That's really weird! I can only add that I'm not receiving encoded messages, so I doubt that anyone's generating (typing) these messages like that. Ray [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 44433	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 11/12/2009
Subject: Re: Why am I getting these weird messages to this address?

That looks like Bill is getting his emails in the HTML enhanced version of Group mail (rather than the plain text, traditional version that I choose to get from Groups) and then when he replies, it looks like he might be sending out in plain text so all the HTML stuff is not rendered into the HTML formatting... or possibly when you receive it, it's not rendering. At least that explains most of the stuff below but I'm surprised to see header info showing up also. If you change your own Group preferences to receive Traditional instead of the Enhanced version, it makes for a better *experience*, with a lot less junk and smaller email size, IMO. Yahoo went to the Enhanced version as a way of getting HTML advertisements into the body of emails, in a sidebar, whereas, with the Traditional version, at most, I'll get a line or two all the way down by the footer area, below all the unsubscribe stuff so I never see it. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Donna Ransome Sent: Wednesday, November 11, 2009 9:34 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Why am I getting these weird messages to this address? Legitimate question. Here is what it looks like. I've gotten maybe half dozen of these over the last couple days: (There is more, but hopefully this will give you the idea.) R6BbIk_TOIW0yRKMSSUqGYEEvYO93d5dwihO4yFSxSajXxdeuvwiy4q1hTkIRm7pzCKU5ps0NvmC KSGWlkpYYiG4YVrgpGJoSwVL.pB4eb3yRhqaQabTL7mJNYGdnt.dONGY6J3BXXgDcsTS_MP_7APv hKmdp4DA4n34jY0js4Ly8zY1nWOGZbKybPRssD99x3kUBoqDmR5IqbkSd8- X-Received: from [72.70.208.210] by web45112.mail.sp1.yahoo.com via HTTP; Wed, 11 Nov 2009 07:38:27 PST X-Mailer: YahooMailClassic/8.1.6 YahooMailWebService/0.7.361.4 To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com In-Reply-To: <9F5597BD59E74213B3E087F5E376EEEF@LVDESKTOP> X-Originating-IP: 68.180.197.148 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 2:4:8:0:2 From: bill 1433 <warrenprint@...> X-Yahoo-Profile: warrenprint Sender: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Mailing-List: list AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com; contact AquaticLife-owner@yahoogroups.com Delivered-To: mailing list AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com List-Id: <AquaticLife.yahoogroups.com> Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: < <mailto:AquaticLife-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com> mailto:AquaticLife-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com> Date: Wed, 11 Nov 2009 07:38:27 -0800 (PST) Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: wisteria/lighting previous question/response revisited Reply-To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: groups-email-ff-m Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="w73BVY8hfJ71PIIRpG706SKFxOHorY0hn30bZMq" --w73BVY8hfJ71PIIRpG706SKFxOHorY0hn30bZMq Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable I'd like to extend a big "THANK YOU" to=20 "Amber Berglund" on group for opening this can of worms! Thanks Again Amber! Bill <g> ya did it again girl! _____ From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Lenny V. aka GoldLenny Sent: Wednesday, November 11, 2009 9:16 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Why am I getting these weird messages to this address? Donna, Is this your way of saying "Get back on topic boys!" or were you asking about the snip of header info that you posted? I can't tell if you're being sarcastic towards us about bringing up Bookmarks and browser stuff... or asking a legitimate question. LOL Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Donna Ransome Sent: Wednesday, November 11, 2009 6:54 PM To: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Why am I getting these weird messages to this address? sentto-8495157- <mailto:sentto-8495157-44406-1257953244-djransome%3Doptonline.net%40returns. groups.yahoo> 44406-1257953244-djransome=optonline.net@... .com It seems to be associated with aquatic life. This one eventually was from Bill with a bunch of stuff in the header first. _____ From: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Steve Szabo Sent: Wednesday, November 11, 2009 6:43 AM To: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: wisteria/lighting previous question/response revisited Lenny, I don't need no steenkin' hack. In Firefox, the bookmarks are kept as they should be, as one file, not each bookmark in a separate file gobbling up disk space as IE does. It also eats up space in the MFT (Master File Table). (SNIPPED)

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 44434	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 11/12/2009
Subject: Re: Aquarium heater sedimentation?

OK. From looking at the picture, it looks like this stuff is growing just on the front side of the heater facing the light of the tank... right? If I am seeing it correctly, then this is probably some kind of algae since it's only growing on the lighted side of the heater. I've never seen one that prefers only the HOT temperatures of a heater though. As far as your pH goes, is this pH of 8.0 in your tank or right out your tap? I have an article on my blog called "Find Your Tap Water Baseline" and it's a good idea for everyone to do this and know what happens to their tap water. Testing it right out the tap will not give accurate numbers most of the time. The 48 hour baseline is a more accurate number but folks also need to know their right out the tap numbers as they might have to do smaller % PWC's if their right-out-the-tap numbers are a LOT different than their 48 hour baseline and/or actual tank numbers. I'm guessing you're not adding anything like crushed coral, other water hardener substances, etc... or do you possibly have a substrate that might have something in it that is leaching hardness into your water in the tank? The 48 hour baseline numbers will tell us more. Do you have GH and KH tests? That will also give us more info. API makes a combo kit for GH and KH that matches with the Master Test Kit and/or other individual kits. If you do, let us know the 48 hour tap water baseline numbers and your tank numbers. -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Jade Sent: Wednesday, November 11, 2009 8:59 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Aquarium heater sedimentation? Lenny: (answers in parenthesis) How long have you had your tank set up? (About two years now) Do you have this "brown substance) on the gravel, other decorations, glass, etc? (No I do not) Give us more details about your tank. Size, stocking, fish species, etc.(Size - 20 gal long, stocking 9 adult guppies and 2 adolescents.) Give us a little info on your fish keeping skills also. (I've been raising live-bearers for the better part of 12 years now... clarify skills?) What is your pH level and why do you think it is high? Contrary to some of the bottles of crap that some stores sell, you do NOT need a pH of 7.0 in order to keep fish and in fact, a higher or lower pH is often better for many species of fish. (My PH is 8.0, according to the water tester from API (Not the sticks!!! Vials with the drops... noted far more accurate) I am well aware you don't need a flat ph of 7.0 and in fact some species of freshwater fish prefer high-end PH. Guppies themselves prefer about 7.5)) How did you crack your heater by cleaning it? Did you drop it or something? I can't imagine scrubbing it with a brush would break it unless it already had a fracture or stress crack. (Negative, I didn't drop it, I was using a semi-dull knife to try to get the brown stuff off - the same that is on this heater, and it simply just cracked.) ------------ Steve: Thanks for the tip, I'll try to give it a go when I can get the razor. Right now I can't afford that much less a new heater. So I think I'll hold off just a bit until I can afford BOTH, just in case, hehe. ------------- Donna: These unfortunately don't just brush away. Sometimes small, solid chunks will fall off, but it's rare. --------- To All : Took a to give you guys some reference as to what it looks like. The brown thing on the top left is a lily pad, just so you know. See photo link below. http://i352.photobucket.com/albums/r329/Tehzedaj/Picture60.jpg --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@...> wrote: > > How long have you had your tank set up? Do you have this "brown > substance) on the gravel, other decorations, glass, etc? > > Give us more details about your tank. Size, stocking, fish species, etc. > Give us a little info on your fish keeping skills also. > > What is your pH level and why do you think it is high? Contrary to > some of the bottles of crap that some stores sell, you do NOT need a > pH of 7.0 in order to keep fish and in fact, a higher or lower pH is > often better for many species of fish. > > How did you crack your heater by cleaning it? Did you drop it or something? > I can't imagine scrubbing it with a brush would break it unless it > already had a fracture or stress crack. > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles > referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically > under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) > > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] > On Behalf Of Jade > Sent: Sunday, November 08, 2009 9:29 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Subject: [AquaticLife] Aquarium heater sedimentation? > > I have a hard light brown (tanish) substance covering the tube of my > aquarium heater... is this sediment? I was wondering if that's what's > causing my high Ph (there's absolutely nothing else in there that > could do it...). How do I clean it off? I've had the problem before... > and in attempts to clean it the heater actually cracked (thankfully it > wasn't in the tank at the time.) > > Any ideas/suggestions/help would be appreciated :) >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 44435	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 11/12/2009
Subject: Re: Aquarium heater sedimentation?

Jade, I'm going to change my original diagnostic, after seeing the picture. That is not a diatom growth you are seeing on your heater. I am not sure what it may be right now, but my advice remains the same for cleaning it off. You mentioned that occasionally it will flake off, which tells me that it is probably fairly easy to scrape off using the method I outlined. What I would probably do, if it were me, and I could not identify the cause, would be to check with someone close by who also keeps fish and see if they have the same problem. If they do, then my water supply would be suspect. If they do not, then I would need to start to consider my care of the tank. What am I adding to the water column? I'd probably try to do some searching on the web to see if someone else is having this problem, and if so, what was done to resolve their issue. \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Jade Sent: Wednesday, November 11, 2009 9:59 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Aquarium heater sedimentation? Lenny: (answers in parenthesis) How long have you had your tank set up? (About two years now) Do you have this "brown substance) on the gravel, other decorations, glass, etc? (No I do not) Give us more details about your tank. Size, stocking, fish species, etc.(Size - 20 gal long, stocking 9 adult guppies and 2 adolescents.) Give us a little info on your fish keeping skills also. (I've been raising live-bearers for the better part of 12 years now... clarify skills?) What is your pH level and why do you think it is high? Contrary to some of the bottles of crap that some stores sell, you do NOT need a pH of 7.0 in order to keep fish and in fact, a higher or lower pH is often better for many species of fish. (My PH is 8.0, according to the water tester from API (Not the sticks!!! Vials with the drops... noted far more accurate) I am well aware you don't need a flat ph of 7.0 and in fact some species of freshwater fish prefer high-end PH. Guppies themselves prefer about 7.5)) How did you crack your heater by cleaning it? Did you drop it or something? I can't imagine scrubbing it with a brush would break it unless it already had a fracture or stress crack. (Negative, I didn't drop it, I was using a semi-dull knife to try to get the brown stuff off - the same that is on this heater, and it simply just cracked.) ------------ Steve: Thanks for the tip, I'll try to give it a go when I can get the razor. Right now I can't afford that much less a new heater. So I think I'll hold off just a bit until I can afford BOTH, just in case, hehe. ------------- Donna: These unfortunately don't just brush away. Sometimes small, solid chunks will fall off, but it's rare. --------- To All : Took a to give you guys some reference as to what it looks like. The brown thing on the top left is a lily pad, just so you know. See photo link below. http://i352.photobucket.com/albums/r329/Tehzedaj/Picture60.jpg --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@...> wrote: > > How long have you had your tank set up? Do you have this "brown substance) > on the gravel, other decorations, glass, etc? > > Give us more details about your tank. Size, stocking, fish species, etc. > Give us a little info on your fish keeping skills also. > > What is your pH level and why do you think it is high? Contrary to some of > the bottles of crap that some stores sell, you do NOT need a pH of 7.0 in > order to keep fish and in fact, a higher or lower pH is often better for > many species of fish. > > How did you crack your heater by cleaning it? Did you drop it or something? > I can't imagine scrubbing it with a brush would break it unless it already > had a fracture or stress crack. > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right > side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) > > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On > Behalf Of Jade > Sent: Sunday, November 08, 2009 9:29 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Subject: [AquaticLife] Aquarium heater sedimentation? > > I have a hard light brown (tanish) substance covering the tube of my > aquarium heater... is this sediment? I was wondering if that's what's > causing my high Ph (there's absolutely nothing else in there that could do > it...). How do I clean it off? I've had the problem before... and in > attempts to clean it the heater actually cracked (thankfully it wasn't in > the tank at the time.) > > Any ideas/suggestions/help would be appreciated :) >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 44436	From: Donna Ransome	Date: 11/12/2009
Subject: Re: Why am I getting these weird messages to this address?

Just certain ones from this list. Should I look at who the senders have been? _____ From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Steve Szabo Sent: Wednesday, November 11, 2009 10:40 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Why am I getting these weird messages to this address? Donna, I'd venture that something is munging the messages along the way from Yahoo! to you. Unless this is happening to others here, it probably is not a Yahoo! problem, but occurring at a point closer to you. Do all your messages come in this way? If not is it happening to just Yahoo! messages, or is it just those from this list? \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Donna Ransome Sent: Wednesday, November 11, 2009 7:54 PM To: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Why am I getting these weird messages to this address? sentto-8495157- <mailto:sentto-8495157-44406-1257953244-djransome%3Doptonline.net%40returns. groups.yahoo> 44406-1257953244-djransome=optonline.net@... .com It seems to be associated with aquatic life. This one eventually was from Bill with a bunch of stuff in the header first. _____ From: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Steve Szabo Sent: Wednesday, November 11, 2009 6:43 AM To: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: wisteria/lighting previous question/response revisited Lenny, I don't need no steenkin' hack. In Firefox, the bookmarks are kept as they should be, as one file, not each bookmark in a separate file gobbling up disk space as IE does. It also eats up space in the MFT (Master File Table). For those who do not know about such things, when a drive is formatted to hold data, it is broken up into groups of sectors, known as clusters, the value of which defaults, in Windows, to 4K (4096 bytes). They can be any value from 512 bytes to at least 32K (it may be even larger now, with NTFS (new technology file system, but 32K was the limit under 16 bit DOS). When a file is written to disk, using 4K cluster size for the example, it takes up as many clusters as needed. So, a file that is 32K in size would use 8 clusters (4K x 8). A file that is 28K would use 7 clusters (28 k/4K=7). However, a file that is 29K would use 8 clusters. It would fill the 7 clusters, with an extra 1024 bytes, which are placed in the next, or 8th cluster, leaving 3K of that cluster as being unavailable to another file. Consider now, that each bookmark is generally less than 1K (1024 bytes). When you are using IE (Internet Explorer), that means that you are wasting 3K of each available cluster to store the bookmark as a file. Let us assume you have 400 bookmarks. I am sure you can do the math. That would mean that you have 400 files, each taking up 4K of disk space, meaning that you are using 1600K to store those files. This means that 400 entries are placed in the MFT. In the case of Firefox, and other browsers not based on IE, all the bookmarks are stored in a file. Say that you have the same 400 bookmarks, using 1K as the size of each bookmark, on average, that would mean that you have a file that is 400K in size, which (conveniently, it seems) works out to a 100K file, stored in 25 clusters and 1 entry in the MFT. A great savings in disk space. There are other issues to consider here as well, but I am sure you are plenty bored by know. However, (oh no!, he's going to say more even though he said he was done) please keep in mind that drive manufacturers use a decimal system to calculate drive sizes, so that 250GB drive you have in your box is not 250GB to the computer, which uses a binary system to calculate drive size. That is why, when you look at the drive size through your operating system, the drive appears to be smaller than advertised. It's kind of like that 55 gallon tank that actually holds less than 55 gallons. Tank measurements are measuring the outside dimensions of the tank not the inside dimensions, plus, none of use fills a tank right to the top of the tank, giving us an actual capacity of somewhat less than 55 gallons, and that is before we add substrate and decorations, fish, and plants to the tank, each displacing a certain amount of water. (You may insert your own Archimedes joke here.) (Notice how I actually brought this back onto an aquarium topic?) \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Lenny V. aka GoldLenny Sent: Wednesday, November 11, 2009 1:30 AM To: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: wisteria/lighting previous question/response revisited Yeah... I keep kind of hoping that Google will eventually provide an online "Bookmarks/Favorites" service or homepage add-in, which would also include a search feature and maybe even a way to scan for bad links in the Bookmarks/Favorites instead of finding out when you go to use that long kept bookmark/favorite and the site no longer exists... of course, there's always the Wayback Machine at the Internet Archive http://www.archive. <http://www.archive. <http://www.archive.org> org> org to find websites/pages that have disappeared from the net. I regularly go into my IE Favorites and use the "Organize Favorites" feature to move things around but also will use Windows Explorer, C:\Documents and Settings\Owner\Favorites\, to look at my Favorites folder and drag and drop, move and rename things around in there. Then, there is this Registry hack to mass sort the Favorites folder, sub-folders and files, instead of having to "Sort By Name" inside each folder. From http://www.theelder <http://www.theelder <http://www.theeldergeek.com/sort_favorites_menu_alphabetical.htm> geek.com/sort_favorites_menu_alphabetical.htm> geek.com/sort_favorites_menu_alphabetical.htm (with some added instructions by me to clarify some things). Sort Favorites Menu Alphabetically [Start] [Run] [Regedit] Registry Key: HKEY_CURRENT_USER\Software\Microsoft\Windows\CurrentVersion\Explorer\MenuOrd er\Favorites (Click on Favorites to highlight, then in the view panel) Right click the Favorites key *Order* and click Delete Exit registry and reboot. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> blogspot.com> blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Steve Szabo Sent: Tuesday, November 10, 2009 11:43 PM To: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: wisteria/lighting previous question/response revisited Lenny, I have a couple of problems. First, I do have a lot of folders and sub folders for things, and try to use them. However, I can also be pressed for time, and just bookmark it, thinking I'll fix it later. Somehow, later comes even later than one would expect, and when it does arrive, I do a bunch, but never finish going through the list. The other problem is that what made sense at the time, may not make sense when I am looking for the bookmark, possible because I a thinking about the topic in a different way than when I bookmarked the site. It is kind of like how one searches the web. If your first key words do not provide what you are looking for, you modify those terms and search again. Same topic, a bit different way of looking at it. Eventually, you will get what you want. What I probably need is a bookmark search engine. For those of you who were born and weaned with Windows, bookmarks is the correct term, not Microsoft's Favorites, though, I must admit, it is possible to have favorite bookmarks. \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Lenny V. aka GoldLenny Sent: Tuesday, November 10, 2009 11:57 PM To: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: wisteria/lighting previous question/response revisited Bookmarks and Favorites are filing systems... if you don't know how/where it's filed, you won't find it anyhow. I have an extensive Favorites folder with dozens of primary folders and then dozens if not hundreds of sub-folders and sub-sub-folders, for example, under Favorites, I have 59 primary folders and one of them is called Aquarium Sites, then, in that folder, I have 44 alphabetized sub-folders just in that folder, from Additives and Algae to Tutorials-Quizzes and UGF Filters (no V,W,X,Y,Z sub-folders under Aquarium... not sure why not). Then in the Algae folder, I have 7 sub-sub-folders dealing with topics such as Algae Eaters, Allelopathic Control, Diatoms-Brown Algae, Hair Algae, Hydrogen Peroxide, Pond Algae, SeaChem Flourish Excel For Treating Algae and then 11 other favorites about Algae in general, for a total of 48 links, just about Algae. My Favorites folder, when looking at its Properties, is 1.41MB in size and consists of 2,057 files (links) and 306 folders (incl. sub and sub-sub folders) in totality. Many years of surfing and saving and starting off with an organizational plan from the start makes it easy for me to navigate and find things easily. My Favorites is like a mini-Google. ;-) I have been toying around with the idea of using a web resource to keep my Favorites folder online so I can sync it with all of my computers and/or just use it as an online Favorites folder that I can log into from any computer. For now, I use LogMeIn (Free) to connect to my main computer from my laptop when I'm out in the streets playing... oops.. I meant working. But I don't think I'd share my Favorites or then I'd have to go in and edit out all my favorite porn links... well, maybe not for Bill. LOL Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> blogspot.com> blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Amber Berglund Sent: Tuesday, November 10, 2009 10:25 PM To: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: wisteria/lighting previous question/response revisited No worries Bill, I do the same thing, maybe Lenny will be so kind as to send us all his bookmarks? LOL Amber bill 1433 wrote: > > Yes, Amber > > It was I, looking for the original information and also looked back on > \\Steve//'s post at group to try and find. Ray had mentioned all this > the other day saying that he thought the posting came from \\Steve//. > > I was not successful in my search. Also, for me the most important > part was a link to a chart which showed you exactly, or explained > exactly the "T" factor stands for. For instance, T-4 would be a tube > that is a half inch wide, or close to it-----------I think. All this > is my own fault. In my interest to acquire and learn about lighting,I > went through and studied the applied links but being ol'bill, I never > bookmarked them. Then to further compound the problem, I deleted the > original message that it came from. In hind-sight you could probably > chalk this all up to felonious stupidity on my part. > > Bill---where its always a good day if I learn something new! > > --- On Tue, 11/10/09, Amber Berglund <arberglund@gmail. <mailto:arberglund%40gmail.com> com > <mailto:arberglund%40gmail.com>> wrote: > > From: Amber Berglund <arberglund@gmail. <mailto:arberglund%40gmail.com> com > <mailto:arberglund%40gmail.com>> > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: wisteria/lighting previous > question/response revisited > To: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Date: Tuesday, November 10, 2009, 9:30 PM > > I believe it was Steve who posted a link about lumens months back when > (I think it was maybe Bill asking) about lighting for planted aquariums. > Plants require 2 different spectrums of light to properly produce > either leaves or flowers (red is more for flower production and blue > is more for growth, but for the best growing you want a mixture of BOTH colors). > So in reality you would want a light that appears more brown/reddish > in coloring and a blue/white coloring as well, but they now have bulbs > that have BOTH spectrums built in (I'm sure they don't work as well as > it would to have 2 different bulbs one mostly red and the other mostly > blue on the color spectrum). > Let me see if I still have the link bookmarked. > What I was trying to say is that Kelvin does not tell you what color > spectrum the light REALLY is, it's actually measuring it's light > output color according to how the human eyes perceive it. So 6500 > kelvin in general is what most plants will prefer because that is a > mixture of both red and blue spectrums (In MOST bulbs) unfortunately > not all light bulb manufactures have to use the exact same chart for > their colors, so they will have different colors than another bulb > that says it's 6500 Kelvin. what you really need to read is the color > chart on the box, not what lumens it says it is. > (still searching for link, LOL). > > This isn't the right link but it discusses the kelvin/lumen problems a > little bit, still looking for the link that showed the charts and what > to look for in the color charts. > http://www.american <http://www.american <http://www.americanaquariumproducts.com/Aquarium_Lighting.html> aquariumproducts.com/Aquarium_Lighting.html> aquariumproducts.com/Aquarium_Lighting.html > <http://www.american <http://www.american <http://www.americanaquariumproducts.com/Aquarium_Lighting.html> aquariumproducts.com/Aquarium_Lighting.html> aquariumproducts.com/Aquarium_Lighting.html> > > Will post again when I find the other link with chart examples. > > Amber > > Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > > > > I think it would be false advertising or possibly mis-advertising > (if they > > do not know any better) if a company lists their bulbs as 6500K and > > they aren't. The Kelvin scale, just like Watts and Lumens, are ALL > > universal and scientifically measurable scales BUT, as I showed > > below, not all 40 watt bulbs put out the same amount of light > > (lumens) or in the same color spectrum (Kelvin rating). All 40 watt > > bulbs, whether incandescent, fluorescent, CFL, LED, Halogen, etc.... > > ALL use only/around 40 watts of electricity but their light output > > can vary dramatically. This is why fluorescent bulbs are so much > > more efficient than incandescent bulbs and CFL's are even more > > efficient... as a 40W fluorescent bulb puts out > a LOT > > more light (lumens) than a 40 watt incandescent bulb and a 40W CFL > > puts out more light (lumens) than a 40W fluorescent bulb. This is > > why the OLD "Watts Per Gallon" rule simply does not work any more. > > > > BUT.. if three different companies are selling standard T-10 > > fluorescent bulbs with the same exact rating of 40W, 3550 lumens and > > 6500K rating... all three of those bulbs should be VERY SIMILAR if > > not identical in the way they appear to our eyes (subject to our own > > degree of color blindness, of > > course!) > > > > In the past, things like "soft white", "warm white", "daylight", > > "plant grow", etc., type terms were used and are still used but > > those are just simple words (not subject to a scientific scale) to > > describe the Kelvin rating ranges but lumens are just as important > > since a bulb could have a 6500K rating with only 2200 lumens where > > another bulb could have a 6500K rating and 3550 or 3700 lumens and > > that bulb would put out over 50% more light (lumens) in the same > > color spectrum (Kelvin rating) so it > would be a > > much more cost effective bulb if it cost the same amount or only a > little > > more. > > > > I'm slightly confused about the "red and blue light for your plants" > > as those two colors are on opposite ends of the Kelvin Scale with > > reds and ambers in the lower numbers and greens and blues in the > > higher > numbers. I > > think this is why you would want a mid-range (5000K to 6500K) bulb > > as those are generally considered "full spectrum" or "daylight" > > bulbs. Here's a color picture of the Kelvin Scale, > > http://www.bltdirec <http://www.bltdirec <http://www.bltdirect.com/images/colour-temperature.jpg> t.com/images/colour-temperature.jpg> t.com/images/colour-temperature.jpg > <http://www.bltdirec <http://www.bltdirec <http://www.bltdirect.com/images/colour-temperature.jpg> t.com/images/colour-temperature.jpg> t.com/images/colour-temperature.jpg> > > <http://www.bltdirec <http://www.bltdirec <http://www.bltdirect.com/images/colour-temperature.jpg> t.com/images/colour-temperature.jpg> t.com/images/colour-temperature.jpg > <http://www.bltdirec <http://www.bltdirec <http://www.bltdirect.com/images/colour-temperature.jpg> t.com/images/colour-temperature.jpg> t.com/images/colour-temperature.jpg>> and you can > > visually > > see that the 5000K to 6500K range is all about the same "color". I > > think this is also why Actinic bulbs are usually higher and closer > > to the > 10000K > > range and up... apparently, the Kelvin lighting scale can go up to > 20,000K > > (according to this article about Reef Tanks > > http://nh.craigslis <http://nh.craigslis <http://nh.craigslist.org/for/1423072406.html> t.org/for/1423072406.html> t.org/for/1423072406.html > <http://nh.craigslis <http://nh.craigslis <http://nh.craigslist.org/for/1423072406.html> t.org/for/1423072406.html> t.org/for/1423072406.html> > > <http://nh.craigslis <http://nh.craigslis <http://nh.craigslist.org/for/1423072406.html> t.org/for/1423072406.html> t.org/for/1423072406.html > <http://nh.craigslis <http://nh.craigslis <http://nh.craigslist.org/for/1423072406.html> t.org/for/1423072406.html> t.org/for/1423072406.html>> on, of all places, > > Craigslist). > > Here is the page that that the above photo link came from and it has > > a chart that also explains things a little more also and talks about > > the > CRI, yet > > another lighting term (Color Rendition Index). > > http://www.bltdirec <http://www.bltdirec <http://www.bltdirect.com/lampColourTemperatures.php> t.com/lampColourTemperatures.php> t.com/lampColourTemperatures.php > <http://www.bltdirec <http://www.bltdirec <http://www.bltdirect.com/lampColourTemperatures.php> t.com/lampColourTemperatures.php> t.com/lampColourTemperatures.php> > > <http://www.bltdirec <http://www.bltdirec <http://www.bltdirect.com/lampColourTemperatures.php> t.com/lampColourTemperatures.php> t.com/lampColourTemperatures.php > <http://www.bltdirec <http://www.bltdirec <http://www.bltdirect.com/lampColourTemperatures.php> t.com/lampColourTemperatures.php> t.com/lampColourTemperatures.php>> > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> blogspot.com> blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> blogspot.com> blogspot.com> <http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> blogspot.com> blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> blogspot.com> blogspot.com>> > > (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the > > right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by > > Year, > Month) > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > [mailto:AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On Behalf Of Amber Berglund > > Sent: Tuesday, November 10, 2009 4:22 PM > > To: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: wisteria/lighting previous > > question/response revisited > > > > Another thing to consider is one light company's 6500 kelvin rating > > may not be identical to another light bulb from a different company > > that's rated the same. The important thing to look at is the color > > chart they show on the boxes, you want more red and blue light for > > your plants, green is not useful or harmful as the plants reflect > > the light back (makes them appear more green but does nothing else > > for them). The kelvin rating is based on our eyes and how they > > perceive color, so each company doesn't have to be identical, > > perhaps some day they will have a universal way to measure light > > spectrums on bulbs that is much less confusing. > > > > Amber > > > > Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > > > > > > OK. So you have a total of 80 watts right now, which is just over > > > 1 WPG, which means you only have enough lighting for low-light, > > > easy to grow plants. See my blog article "Planted Tank: So You > > > Want A Planted Tank" for links to lists of low-light, easy to grow > > > plants that will do OK in your tank. You should replace those tubes at least yearly... > > > although some say every six months. As far as I know, a 40W bulb > > > is the highest wattage made for this type of bulb/fixture right > > > now but you can increase your lighting > > > (lumens) and K (Kelvin) rating. See below. > > > > > > NOTE - below links are for example/informational purposes only, as > > > I know nothing about the sites. God... did I just say that? Do I > > > really have to add disclaimers to my posts now? LOL Just laughing at myself. > > > LOL > > > > > > This may be your Sylvania bulb... > > > http://www.lightbul <http://www.lightbul <http://www.lightbulbemporium.com/proddetail.asp?prod=F40/EX50> bemporium.com/proddetail.asp?prod=F40/EX50> bemporium.com/proddetail.asp?prod=F40/EX50 > <http://www.lightbul <http://www.lightbul <http://www.lightbulbemporium.com/proddetail.asp?prod=F40/EX50> bemporium.com/proddetail.asp?prod=F40/EX50> bemporium.com/proddetail.asp?prod=F40/EX50> > > <http://www.lightbul <http://www.lightbul <http://www.lightbulbemporium.com/proddetail.asp?prod=F40/EX50> bemporium.com/proddetail.asp?prod=F40/EX50> bemporium.com/proddetail.asp?prod=F40/EX50 > <http://www.lightbul <http://www.lightbul <http://www.lightbulbemporium.com/proddetail.asp?prod=F40/EX50> bemporium.com/proddetail.asp?prod=F40/EX50> bemporium.com/proddetail.asp?prod=F40/EX50>> > > > <http://www.lightbul <http://www.lightbul <http://www.lightbulbemporium.com/proddetail.asp?prod=F40/EX50> bemporium.com/proddetail.asp?prod=F40/EX50> bemporium.com/proddetail.asp?prod=F40/EX50 > <http://www.lightbul <http://www.lightbul <http://www.lightbulbemporium.com/proddetail.asp?prod=F40/EX50> bemporium.com/proddetail.asp?prod=F40/EX50> bemporium.com/proddetail.asp?prod=F40/EX50> > > <http://www.lightbul <http://www.lightbul <http://www.lightbulbemporium.com/proddetail.asp?prod=F40/EX50> bemporium.com/proddetail.asp?prod=F40/EX50> bemporium.com/proddetail.asp?prod=F40/EX50 > <http://www.lightbul <http://www.lightbul <http://www.lightbulbemporium.com/proddetail.asp?prod=F40/EX50> bemporium.com/proddetail.asp?prod=F40/EX50> bemporium.com/proddetail.asp?prod=F40/EX50>>> and > if > > > it is, then it's the same ratings as the specs in the T-10 bulb > > > that I copy/pasted below, which is a pretty good bulb with higher > > > lumens and the higher K rating, although not a 6500K rated bulb. > > > At the bottom of this page, there was a link to this bulb... > > > > > > http://www.lightbul <http://www.lightbul <http://www.lightbulbemporium.com/maxlite_51204_ml_f40t10_850_rscg.asp> bemporium.com/maxlite_51204_ml_f40t10_850_rscg.asp> bemporium.com/maxlite_51204_ml_f40t10_850_rscg.asp > <http://www.lightbul <http://www.lightbul <http://www.lightbulbemporium.com/maxlite_51204_ml_f40t10_850_rscg.asp> bemporium.com/maxlite_51204_ml_f40t10_850_rscg.asp> bemporium.com/maxlite_51204_ml_f40t10_850_rscg.asp > > > > > <http://www.lightbul <http://www.lightbul <http://www.lightbulbemporium.com/maxlite_51204_ml_f40t10_850_rscg.asp> bemporium.com/maxlite_51204_ml_f40t10_850_rscg.asp> bemporium.com/maxlite_51204_ml_f40t10_850_rscg.asp > <http://www.lightbul <http://www.lightbul <http://www.lightbulbemporium.com/maxlite_51204_ml_f40t10_850_rscg.asp> bemporium.com/maxlite_51204_ml_f40t10_850_rscg.asp> bemporium.com/maxlite_51204_ml_f40t10_850_rscg.asp > >> > > > > > > <http://www.lightbul <http://www.lightbul <http://www.lightbulbemporium.com/maxlite_51204_ml_f40t10_850_rscg.asp> bemporium.com/maxlite_51204_ml_f40t10_850_rscg.asp> bemporium.com/maxlite_51204_ml_f40t10_850_rscg.asp > <http://www.lightbul <http://www.lightbul <http://www.lightbulbemporium.com/maxlite_51204_ml_f40t10_850_rscg.asp> bemporium.com/maxlite_51204_ml_f40t10_850_rscg.asp> bemporium.com/maxlite_51204_ml_f40t10_850_rscg.asp > > > > > <http://www.lightbul <http://www.lightbul <http://www.lightbulbemporium.com/maxlite_51204_ml_f40t10_850_rscg.asp> bemporium.com/maxlite_51204_ml_f40t10_850_rscg.asp> bemporium.com/maxlite_51204_ml_f40t10_850_rscg.asp > <http://www.lightbul <http://www.lightbul <http://www.lightbulbemporium.com/maxlite_51204_ml_f40t10_850_rscg.asp> bemporium.com/maxlite_51204_ml_f40t10_850_rscg.asp> bemporium.com/maxlite_51204_ml_f40t10_850_rscg.asp > >> > > > > > > > which > > > has an even higher lumen rating of 3700, although not much higher > > > than the 3550 rating but every little bit helps especially since > > > the MaxLite bulb was a lower price than the Sylvania bulb. > > > > > > As you will see on this page > > > > > > http://www.lightbul <http://www.lightbul <http://www.lightbulbsdirect.com/Merchant2/merchant.mvc?page=001/CTGY/F> bsdirect.com/Merchant2/merchant.mvc?page=001/CTGY/F> bsdirect.com/Merchant2/merchant.mvc?page=001/CTGY/F > <http://www.lightbul <http://www.lightbul <http://www.lightbulbsdirect.com/Merchant2/merchant.mvc?page=001/CTGY/> bsdirect.com/Merchant2/merchant.mvc?page=001/CTGY/> bsdirect.com/Merchant2/merchant.mvc?page=001/CTGY/ > F> > > > <http://www.lightbul <http://www.lightbul <http://www.lightbulbsdirect.com/Merchant2/merchant.mvc?page=001/CTGY/> bsdirect.com/Merchant2/merchant.mvc?page=001/CTGY/> bsdirect.com/Merchant2/merchant.mvc?page=001/CTGY/ > F > <http://www.lightbul <http://www.lightbul <http://www.lightbulbsdirect.com/Merchant2/merchant.mvc?page=001/CTGY/> bsdirect.com/Merchant2/merchant.mvc?page=001/CTGY/> bsdirect.com/Merchant2/merchant.mvc?page=001/CTGY/ > F>> > > > S+Fluo > > > > > > <http://www.lightbul <http://www.lightbul <http://www.lightbulbsdirect.com/Merchant2/merchant.mvc?page=001/CTGY/> bsdirect.com/Merchant2/merchant.mvc?page=001/CTGY/> bsdirect.com/Merchant2/merchant.mvc?page=001/CTGY/ > <http://www.lightbul <http://www.lightbul <http://www.lightbulbsdirect.com/Merchant2/merchant.mvc?page=001/CTGY/> bsdirect.com/Merchant2/merchant.mvc?page=001/CTGY/> bsdirect.com/Merchant2/merchant.mvc?page=001/CTGY/ > > > > > <http://www.lightbul <http://www.lightbul <http://www.lightbulbsdirect.com/Merchant2/merchant.mvc?page=001/CTGY/> bsdirect.com/Merchant2/merchant.mvc?page=001/CTGY/> bsdirect.com/Merchant2/merchant.mvc?page=001/CTGY/ > <http://www.lightbul <http://www.lightbul <http://www.lightbulbsdirect.com/Merchant2/merchant.mvc?page=001/CTGY/> bsdirect.com/Merchant2/merchant.mvc?page=001/CTGY/> bsdirect.com/Merchant2/merchant.mvc?page=001/CTGY/ > >> > > > FS+Fluo> > > > rescent > > > > > > The second bulb down would be similar to yours, except we do not > > > know the lumen or color spectrum rating on your bulb, unless that > > > link I gave above is actually your bulb and then it would be the > > > same as this one. The specs on it are: > > > > > > T-10 Fluorescent > > > 40 Watts > > > Length: 48" > > > Medium Bi-Pin Base > > > Color: 5000K Temperature > > > Initial Lumens: 3550 > > > CRI: 84 > > > Average Life: 20,000 Hours > > > > > > The Color spectrum of 5000K (Kelvin) is OK but 6500K would be much > > better. > > > The Lumens of 3550 is the actual amount of *light* > > > > > > The next bulb down from that one is a T-12, which will also fit in > > > your fixture but they are bigger diameter bulbs and this one > > > actually puts out less light (lumens). Here are the specs: > > > > > > T-12 Fluorescent > > > 40 Watts > > > Length: 48" > > > Base: Medium Bi-Pin Base > > > Initial Lumens: 2200 > > > Average Life: 20,000 Hours > > > Color Temperature: 5000K > > > CRI: 92 > > > > > > It has the same Color spectrum but only 2200 lumens so the above > > > T-10 bulb has around 50% more lumens (light) coming out of it. > > > > > > Now, if you scroll down to the second from the bottom on the page, > > > you'll see the Verilux Instant-Sun T-12 bulb which has a higher > > > Kelvin rating but it doesn't list the lumens so this needs to be > > > checked out further. While the higher K rating is good, if it goes > > > back down to only 2200 lumens, instead of the 3550 lumens of the > > > first referenced bulb above, then I would probably go with the > > > 3550 lumens, 5000K bulb over the 6280K bulb if the lumens were a LOT less. > > > > > > (START SNIP) > > > Engineered to reproduce all the colors and balance of natural > > > light, VeriluxR full spectrum fluorescent tubes feature Trucolite > > > Phosphor TechnologyT which includes the use of a stable, custom > > > blend of earth phosphors that create bright, balanced full spectrum light. > > > T-12 Fluorescent > > > 40 Watts > > > Length: 48" > > > Color Temperature: 6280K > > > CRI: 94 > > > Medium Bi-Pin Base > > > (END SNIP) > > > > > > So, as you can see, there's a few things to look for when shopping > > > for new replacement bulbs. Look for the 5000K to 6500K bulbs with > > > the higher lumen rating for the dollar and you should be good. > > > Note that a 3550 or 3700 lumen bulb will put out nearly twice as > > > much light as a 2000 lumen bulb so it can be easy to increase your > > > lighting without increasing the wattage. DO NOT try to use HO or > > > VHO bulbs... which look similar but have much higher wattage, well > > > over the 40W bulbs you now have. These other HO and VHO bulbs have > > > different pin arrangements so they will not fit in your fixture > > > anyhow but I just wanted to save you a trip. > > > > > > Last but not least, if you're handy, you could even take the bulbs > > > out of your fixtures and line the insides of your fixtures with > > > nice and crisp and flat aluminum foil (shiny side exposed) which > > > will also help. Using double stick tape and then carefully > > > applying the foil so it does not wrinkle too much will work > > > well... especially if the inside of your fixture is black. A white > > > reflector is good but a mirrored reflector, like that created by > > > the shiny side of foil, is MUCH better than a black reflector. > > > Most black fixtures do at least have white reflector areas. > > > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> blogspot.com> blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> blogspot.com> blogspot.com> > > <http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> blogspot.com> blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> blogspot.com> blogspot.com>> > > > <http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> blogspot.com> blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> blogspot.com> blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> blogspot.com> blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> blogspot.com> blogspot.com>>> > > (Links to any articles referenced in > > > above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under > > > Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > From: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > [mailto:AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On Behalf Of > > > erikaandnewton > > > Sent: Tuesday, November 10, 2009 10:17 AM > > > To: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: wisteria/lighting previous > > > question/response revisited > > > > > > << When you say "two strips" do you have two 4' long two-bulb > > > fixtures already or something else?>> > > > > > > i have two 4' single bulb strip lights. > > > > > > >> What kind of lighting do you currently have? Look at the bulbs > > > >> and there should be some kind of writing on one of the ends. > > > >> Give us that info if you cannot decipher it yourself.<< > > > > > > one bulb is a f40 t10 > > > the other one is a sylvania daylight bulb also f40 > > > > > > >> It's probably 21" tall, since a common measurement for a 75G is > > > >> 48"x18"x21" Tall.>> > > > > > > it is 21 inches tall > > > > > > erika wilmington de usa [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 44437	From: Donna Ransome	Date: 11/12/2009
Subject: Re: Why am I getting these weird messages to this address?

I don’t have bulk messages. I’ll look at the older ones and see if I see a pattern. _____ From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Wendie Sent: Thursday, November 12, 2009 12:21 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Why am I getting these weird messages to this address? It's probably a Yahoo problem as I'm getting them from several different groups. I think it has something to do with the selection of bulk messages rather than individual. Wendie ----- Original Message ----- From: sevenspringss@ <mailto:sevenspringss%40wmconnect.com> wmconnect.com To: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com Sent: Wednesday, November 11, 2009 11:28 PM Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Why am I getting these weird messages to this address? Wow, and I thought that I had 'puter problems <g>. That's really weird! I can only add that I'm not receiving encoded messages, so I doubt that anyone's generating (typing) these messages like that. Ray [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 44438	From: Donna Ransome	Date: 11/12/2009
Subject: Re: Why am I getting these weird messages to this address?

A bunch are from Harry. One from yourchardonnay. One from greychildren. A bunch from Bill. So I can't fix it , they have to? It started November 8. _____ From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Lenny V. aka GoldLenny Sent: Thursday, November 12, 2009 3:50 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Why am I getting these weird messages to this address? That looks like Bill is getting his emails in the HTML enhanced version of Group mail (rather than the plain text, traditional version that I choose to get from Groups) and then when he replies, it looks like he might be sending out in plain text so all the HTML stuff is not rendered into the HTML formatting... or possibly when you receive it, it's not rendering. At least that explains most of the stuff below but I'm surprised to see header info showing up also. If you change your own Group preferences to receive Traditional instead of the Enhanced version, it makes for a better *experience*, with a lot less junk and smaller email size, IMO. Yahoo went to the Enhanced version as a way of getting HTML advertisements into the body of emails, in a sidebar, whereas, with the Traditional version, at most, I'll get a line or two all the way down by the footer area, below all the unsubscribe stuff so I never see it. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Donna Ransome Sent: Wednesday, November 11, 2009 9:34 PM To: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Why am I getting these weird messages to this address? Legitimate question. Here is what it looks like. I've gotten maybe half dozen of these over the last couple days: (There is more, but hopefully this will give you the idea.) R6BbIk_TOIW0yRKMSSUqGYEEvYO93d5dwihO4yFSxSajXxdeuvwiy4q1hTkIRm7pzCKU5ps0NvmC KSGWlkpYYiG4YVrgpGJoSwVL.pB4eb3yRhqaQabTL7mJNYGdnt.dONGY6J3BXXgDcsTS_MP_7APv hKmdp4DA4n34jY0js4Ly8zY1nWOGZbKybPRssD99x3kUBoqDmR5IqbkSd8- X-Received: from [72.70.208.210] by web45112.mail.sp1.yahoo.com via HTTP; Wed, 11 Nov 2009 07:38:27 PST X-Mailer: YahooMailClassic/8.1.6 YahooMailWebService/0.7.361.4 To: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com In-Reply-To: <9F5597BD59E74213B3E087F5E376EEEF@LVDESKTOP> X-Originating-IP: 68.180.197.148 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 2:4:8:0:2 From: bill 1433 <warrenprint@ <mailto:warrenprint%40yahoo.com> yahoo.com> X-Yahoo-Profile: warrenprint Sender: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Mailing-List: list AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com; contact AquaticLife- <mailto:AquaticLife-owner%40yahoogroups.com> owner@yahoogroups.com Delivered-To: mailing list AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com List-Id: <AquaticLife.yahoogroups.com> Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: < <mailto:AquaticLife- <mailto:AquaticLife-unsubscribe%40yahoogroups.com> unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com> mailto:AquaticLife- <mailto:AquaticLife-unsubscribe%40yahoogroups.com> unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com> Date: Wed, 11 Nov 2009 07:38:27 -0800 (PST) Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: wisteria/lighting previous question/response revisited Reply-To: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: groups-email-ff-m Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="w73BVY8hfJ71PIIRpG706SKFxOHorY0hn30bZMq" --w73BVY8hfJ71PIIRpG706SKFxOHorY0hn30bZMq Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable I'd like to extend a big "THANK YOU" to=20 "Amber Berglund" on group for opening this can of worms! Thanks Again Amber! Bill <g> ya did it again girl! _____ From: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Lenny V. aka GoldLenny Sent: Wednesday, November 11, 2009 9:16 PM To: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Why am I getting these weird messages to this address? Donna, Is this your way of saying "Get back on topic boys!" or were you asking about the snip of header info that you posted? I can't tell if you're being sarcastic towards us about bringing up Bookmarks and browser stuff... or asking a legitimate question. LOL Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> blogspot.com> blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Donna Ransome Sent: Wednesday, November 11, 2009 6:54 PM To: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Why am I getting these weird messages to this address? sentto-8495157- <mailto:sentto-8495157-44406-1257953244-djransome%3Doptonline.net%40returns. groups.yahoo> 44406-1257953244- <mailto:44406-1257953244-djransome%3Doptonline.net%40returns.groups.yahoo> djransome=optonline.net@... .com It seems to be associated with aquatic life. This one eventually was from Bill with a bunch of stuff in the header first. _____ From: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Steve Szabo Sent: Wednesday, November 11, 2009 6:43 AM To: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: wisteria/lighting previous question/response revisited Lenny, I don't need no steenkin' hack. In Firefox, the bookmarks are kept as they should be, as one file, not each bookmark in a separate file gobbling up disk space as IE does. It also eats up space in the MFT (Master File Table). (SNIPPED) [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 44439	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 11/12/2009
Subject: Re: Why am I getting these weird messages to this address?

It would be interesting to see whose messages are doing this for you. I am not seeing any of this, but I do have my settings for plain text on the Yahoo! lists I belong to, and I have not seen it. Are you receiving plain text only, or do you receive the HTML versions of the messages? \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Donna Ransome Sent: Thursday, November 12, 2009 6:56 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Why am I getting these weird messages to this address? Just certain ones from this list. Should I look at who the senders have been? _____ From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Steve Szabo Sent: Wednesday, November 11, 2009 10:40 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Why am I getting these weird messages to this address? Donna, I'd venture that something is munging the messages along the way from Yahoo! to you. Unless this is happening to others here, it probably is not a Yahoo! problem, but occurring at a point closer to you. Do all your messages come in this way? If not is it happening to just Yahoo! messages, or is it just those from this list? \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Donna Ransome Sent: Wednesday, November 11, 2009 7:54 PM To: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Why am I getting these weird messages to this address? sentto-8495157- <mailto:sentto-8495157-44406-1257953244-djransome%3Doptonline.net%40returns. groups.yahoo> 44406-1257953244-djransome=optonline.net@... .com It seems to be associated with aquatic life. This one eventually was from Bill with a bunch of stuff in the header first. _____ From: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Steve Szabo Sent: Wednesday, November 11, 2009 6:43 AM To: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: wisteria/lighting previous question/response revisited Lenny, I don't need no steenkin' hack. In Firefox, the bookmarks are kept as they should be, as one file, not each bookmark in a separate file gobbling up disk space as IE does. It also eats up space in the MFT (Master File Table). For those who do not know about such things, when a drive is formatted to hold data, it is broken up into groups of sectors, known as clusters, the value of which defaults, in Windows, to 4K (4096 bytes). They can be any value from 512 bytes to at least 32K (it may be even larger now, with NTFS (new technology file system, but 32K was the limit under 16 bit DOS). When a file is written to disk, using 4K cluster size for the example, it takes up as many clusters as needed. So, a file that is 32K in size would use 8 clusters (4K x 8). A file that is 28K would use 7 clusters (28 k/4K=7). However, a file that is 29K would use 8 clusters. It would fill the 7 clusters, with an extra 1024 bytes, which are placed in the next, or 8th cluster, leaving 3K of that cluster as being unavailable to another file. Consider now, that each bookmark is generally less than 1K (1024 bytes). When you are using IE (Internet Explorer), that means that you are wasting 3K of each available cluster to store the bookmark as a file. Let us assume you have 400 bookmarks. I am sure you can do the math. That would mean that you have 400 files, each taking up 4K of disk space, meaning that you are using 1600K to store those files. This means that 400 entries are placed in the MFT. In the case of Firefox, and other browsers not based on IE, all the bookmarks are stored in a file. Say that you have the same 400 bookmarks, using 1K as the size of each bookmark, on average, that would mean that you have a file that is 400K in size, which (conveniently, it seems) works out to a 100K file, stored in 25 clusters and 1 entry in the MFT. A great savings in disk space. There are other issues to consider here as well, but I am sure you are plenty bored by know. However, (oh no!, he's going to say more even though he said he was done) please keep in mind that drive manufacturers use a decimal system to calculate drive sizes, so that 250GB drive you have in your box is not 250GB to the computer, which uses a binary system to calculate drive size. That is why, when you look at the drive size through your operating system, the drive appears to be smaller than advertised. It's kind of like that 55 gallon tank that actually holds less than 55 gallons. Tank measurements are measuring the outside dimensions of the tank not the inside dimensions, plus, none of use fills a tank right to the top of the tank, giving us an actual capacity of somewhat less than 55 gallons, and that is before we add substrate and decorations, fish, and plants to the tank, each displacing a certain amount of water. (You may insert your own Archimedes joke here.) (Notice how I actually brought this back onto an aquarium topic?) \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Lenny V. aka GoldLenny Sent: Wednesday, November 11, 2009 1:30 AM To: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: wisteria/lighting previous question/response revisited Yeah... I keep kind of hoping that Google will eventually provide an online "Bookmarks/Favorites" service or homepage add-in, which would also include a search feature and maybe even a way to scan for bad links in the Bookmarks/Favorites instead of finding out when you go to use that long kept bookmark/favorite and the site no longer exists... of course, there's always the Wayback Machine at the Internet Archive http://www.archive. <http://www.archive. <http://www.archive.org> org> org to find websites/pages that have disappeared from the net. I regularly go into my IE Favorites and use the "Organize Favorites" feature to move things around but also will use Windows Explorer, C:\Documents and Settings\Owner\Favorites\, to look at my Favorites folder and drag and drop, move and rename things around in there. Then, there is this Registry hack to mass sort the Favorites folder, sub-folders and files, instead of having to "Sort By Name" inside each folder. From http://www.theelder <http://www.theelder <http://www.theeldergeek.com/sort_favorites_menu_alphabetical.htm> geek.com/sort_favorites_menu_alphabetical.htm> geek.com/sort_favorites_menu_alphabetical.htm (with some added instructions by me to clarify some things). Sort Favorites Menu Alphabetically [Start] [Run] [Regedit] Registry Key: HKEY_CURRENT_USER\Software\Microsoft\Windows\CurrentVersion\Explorer\MenuOrd er\Favorites (Click on Favorites to highlight, then in the view panel) Right click the Favorites key *Order* and click Delete Exit registry and reboot. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> blogspot.com> blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Steve Szabo Sent: Tuesday, November 10, 2009 11:43 PM To: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: wisteria/lighting previous question/response revisited Lenny, I have a couple of problems. First, I do have a lot of folders and sub folders for things, and try to use them. However, I can also be pressed for time, and just bookmark it, thinking I'll fix it later. Somehow, later comes even later than one would expect, and when it does arrive, I do a bunch, but never finish going through the list. The other problem is that what made sense at the time, may not make sense when I am looking for the bookmark, possible because I a thinking about the topic in a different way than when I bookmarked the site. It is kind of like how one searches the web. If your first key words do not provide what you are looking for, you modify those terms and search again. Same topic, a bit different way of looking at it. Eventually, you will get what you want. What I probably need is a bookmark search engine. For those of you who were born and weaned with Windows, bookmarks is the correct term, not Microsoft's Favorites, though, I must admit, it is possible to have favorite bookmarks. \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Lenny V. aka GoldLenny Sent: Tuesday, November 10, 2009 11:57 PM To: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: wisteria/lighting previous question/response revisited Bookmarks and Favorites are filing systems... if you don't know how/where it's filed, you won't find it anyhow. I have an extensive Favorites folder with dozens of primary folders and then dozens if not hundreds of sub-folders and sub-sub-folders, for example, under Favorites, I have 59 primary folders and one of them is called Aquarium Sites, then, in that folder, I have 44 alphabetized sub-folders just in that folder, from Additives and Algae to Tutorials-Quizzes and UGF Filters (no V,W,X,Y,Z sub-folders under Aquarium... not sure why not). Then in the Algae folder, I have 7 sub-sub-folders dealing with topics such as Algae Eaters, Allelopathic Control, Diatoms-Brown Algae, Hair Algae, Hydrogen Peroxide, Pond Algae, SeaChem Flourish Excel For Treating Algae and then 11 other favorites about Algae in general, for a total of 48 links, just about Algae. My Favorites folder, when looking at its Properties, is 1.41MB in size and consists of 2,057 files (links) and 306 folders (incl. sub and sub-sub folders) in totality. Many years of surfing and saving and starting off with an organizational plan from the start makes it easy for me to navigate and find things easily. My Favorites is like a mini-Google. ;-) I have been toying around with the idea of using a web resource to keep my Favorites folder online so I can sync it with all of my computers and/or just use it as an online Favorites folder that I can log into from any computer. For now, I use LogMeIn (Free) to connect to my main computer from my laptop when I'm out in the streets playing... oops.. I meant working. But I don't think I'd share my Favorites or then I'd have to go in and edit out all my favorite porn links... well, maybe not for Bill. LOL Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> blogspot.com> blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Amber Berglund Sent: Tuesday, November 10, 2009 10:25 PM To: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: wisteria/lighting previous question/response revisited No worries Bill, I do the same thing, maybe Lenny will be so kind as to send us all his bookmarks? LOL Amber bill 1433 wrote: > > Yes, Amber > > It was I, looking for the original information and also looked back on > \\Steve//'s post at group to try and find. Ray had mentioned all this > the other day saying that he thought the posting came from \\Steve//. > > I was not successful in my search. Also, for me the most important > part was a link to a chart which showed you exactly, or explained > exactly the "T" factor stands for. For instance, T-4 would be a tube > that is a half inch wide, or close to it-----------I think. All this > is my own fault. In my interest to acquire and learn about lighting,I > went through and studied the applied links but being ol'bill, I never > bookmarked them. Then to further compound the problem, I deleted the > original message that it came from. In hind-sight you could probably > chalk this all up to felonious stupidity on my part. > > Bill---where its always a good day if I learn something new! > > --- On Tue, 11/10/09, Amber Berglund <arberglund@gmail. <mailto:arberglund%40gmail.com> com > <mailto:arberglund%40gmail.com>> wrote: > > From: Amber Berglund <arberglund@gmail. <mailto:arberglund%40gmail.com> com > <mailto:arberglund%40gmail.com>> > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: wisteria/lighting previous > question/response revisited > To: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Date: Tuesday, November 10, 2009, 9:30 PM > > I believe it was Steve who posted a link about lumens months back when > (I think it was maybe Bill asking) about lighting for planted aquariums. > Plants require 2 different spectrums of light to properly produce > either leaves or flowers (red is more for flower production and blue > is more for growth, but for the best growing you want a mixture of BOTH colors). > So in reality you would want a light that appears more brown/reddish > in coloring and a blue/white coloring as well, but they now have bulbs > that have BOTH spectrums built in (I'm sure they don't work as well as > it would to have 2 different bulbs one mostly red and the other mostly > blue on the color spectrum). > Let me see if I still have the link bookmarked. > What I was trying to say is that Kelvin does not tell you what color > spectrum the light REALLY is, it's actually measuring it's light > output color according to how the human eyes perceive it. So 6500 > kelvin in general is what most plants will prefer because that is a > mixture of both red and blue spectrums (In MOST bulbs) unfortunately > not all light bulb manufactures have to use the exact same chart for > their colors, so they will have different colors than another bulb > that says it's 6500 Kelvin. what you really need to read is the color > chart on the box, not what lumens it says it is. > (still searching for link, LOL). > > This isn't the right link but it discusses the kelvin/lumen problems a > little bit, still looking for the link that showed the charts and what > to look for in the color charts. > http://www.american <http://www.american <http://www.americanaquariumproducts.com/Aquarium_Lighting.html> aquariumproducts.com/Aquarium_Lighting.html> aquariumproducts.com/Aquarium_Lighting.html > <http://www.american <http://www.american <http://www.americanaquariumproducts.com/Aquarium_Lighting.html> aquariumproducts.com/Aquarium_Lighting.html> aquariumproducts.com/Aquarium_Lighting.html> > > Will post again when I find the other link with chart examples. > > Amber > > Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > > > > I think it would be false advertising or possibly mis-advertising > (if they > > do not know any better) if a company lists their bulbs as 6500K and > > they aren't. The Kelvin scale, just like Watts and Lumens, are ALL > > universal and scientifically measurable scales BUT, as I showed > > below, not all 40 watt bulbs put out the same amount of light > > (lumens) or in the same color spectrum (Kelvin rating). All 40 watt > > bulbs, whether incandescent, fluorescent, CFL, LED, Halogen, etc.... > > ALL use only/around 40 watts of electricity but their light output > > can vary dramatically. This is why fluorescent bulbs are so much > > more efficient than incandescent bulbs and CFL's are even more > > efficient... as a 40W fluorescent bulb puts out > a LOT > > more light (lumens) than a 40 watt incandescent bulb and a 40W CFL > > puts out more light (lumens) than a 40W fluorescent bulb. This is > > why the OLD "Watts Per Gallon" rule simply does not work any more. > > > > BUT.. if three different companies are selling standard T-10 > > fluorescent bulbs with the same exact rating of 40W, 3550 lumens and > > 6500K rating... all three of those bulbs should be VERY SIMILAR if > > not identical in the way they appear to our eyes (subject to our own > > degree of color blindness, of > > course!) > > > > In the past, things like "soft white", "warm white", "daylight", > > "plant grow", etc., type terms were used and are still used but > > those are just simple words (not subject to a scientific scale) to > > describe the Kelvin rating ranges but lumens are just as important > > since a bulb could have a 6500K rating with only 2200 lumens where > > another bulb could have a 6500K rating and 3550 or 3700 lumens and > > that bulb would put out over 50% more light (lumens) in the same > > color spectrum (Kelvin rating) so it > would be a > > much more cost effective bulb if it cost the same amount or only a > little > > more. > > > > I'm slightly confused about the "red and blue light for your plants" > > as those two colors are on opposite ends of the Kelvin Scale with > > reds and ambers in the lower numbers and greens and blues in the > > higher > numbers. I > > think this is why you would want a mid-range (5000K to 6500K) bulb > > as those are generally considered "full spectrum" or "daylight" > > bulbs. Here's a color picture of the Kelvin Scale, > > http://www.bltdirec <http://www.bltdirec <http://www.bltdirect.com/images/colour-temperature.jpg> t.com/images/colour-temperature.jpg> t.com/images/colour-temperature.jpg > <http://www.bltdirec <http://www.bltdirec <http://www.bltdirect.com/images/colour-temperature.jpg> t.com/images/colour-temperature.jpg> t.com/images/colour-temperature.jpg> > > <http://www.bltdirec <http://www.bltdirec <http://www.bltdirect.com/images/colour-temperature.jpg> t.com/images/colour-temperature.jpg> t.com/images/colour-temperature.jpg > <http://www.bltdirec <http://www.bltdirec <http://www.bltdirect.com/images/colour-temperature.jpg> t.com/images/colour-temperature.jpg> t.com/images/colour-temperature.jpg>> and you can > > visually > > see that the 5000K to 6500K range is all about the same "color". I > > think this is also why Actinic bulbs are usually higher and closer > > to the > 10000K > > range and up... apparently, the Kelvin lighting scale can go up to > 20,000K > > (according to this article about Reef Tanks > > http://nh.craigslis <http://nh.craigslis <http://nh.craigslist.org/for/1423072406.html> t.org/for/1423072406.html> t.org/for/1423072406.html > <http://nh.craigslis <http://nh.craigslis <http://nh.craigslist.org/for/1423072406.html> t.org/for/1423072406.html> t.org/for/1423072406.html> > > <http://nh.craigslis <http://nh.craigslis <http://nh.craigslist.org/for/1423072406.html> t.org/for/1423072406.html> t.org/for/1423072406.html > <http://nh.craigslis <http://nh.craigslis <http://nh.craigslist.org/for/1423072406.html> t.org/for/1423072406.html> t.org/for/1423072406.html>> on, of all places, > > Craigslist). > > Here is the page that that the above photo link came from and it has > > a chart that also explains things a little more also and talks about > > the > CRI, yet > > another lighting term (Color Rendition Index). > > http://www.bltdirec <http://www.bltdirec <http://www.bltdirect.com/lampColourTemperatures.php> t.com/lampColourTemperatures.php> t.com/lampColourTemperatures.php > <http://www.bltdirec <http://www.bltdirec <http://www.bltdirect.com/lampColourTemperatures.php> t.com/lampColourTemperatures.php> t.com/lampColourTemperatures.php> > > <http://www.bltdirec <http://www.bltdirec <http://www.bltdirect.com/lampColourTemperatures.php> t.com/lampColourTemperatures.php> t.com/lampColourTemperatures.php > <http://www.bltdirec <http://www.bltdirec <http://www.bltdirect.com/lampColourTemperatures.php> t.com/lampColourTemperatures.php> t.com/lampColourTemperatures.php>> > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> blogspot.com> blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> blogspot.com> blogspot.com> <http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> blogspot.com> blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> blogspot.com> blogspot.com>> > > (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the > > right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by > > Year, > Month) > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > [mailto:AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On Behalf Of Amber Berglund > > Sent: Tuesday, November 10, 2009 4:22 PM > > To: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: wisteria/lighting previous > > question/response revisited > > > > Another thing to consider is one light company's 6500 kelvin rating > > may not be identical to another light bulb from a different company > > that's rated the same. The important thing to look at is the color > > chart they show on the boxes, you want more red and blue light for > > your plants, green is not useful or harmful as the plants reflect > > the light back (makes them appear more green but does nothing else > > for them). The kelvin rating is based on our eyes and how they > > perceive color, so each company doesn't have to be identical, > > perhaps some day they will have a universal way to measure light > > spectrums on bulbs that is much less confusing. > > > > Amber > > > > Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > > > > > > OK. So you have a total of 80 watts right now, which is just over > > > 1 WPG, which means you only have enough lighting for low-light, > > > easy to grow plants. See my blog article "Planted Tank: So You > > > Want A Planted Tank" for links to lists of low-light, easy to grow > > > plants that will do OK in your tank. You should replace those tubes at least yearly... > > > although some say every six months. As far as I know, a 40W bulb > > > is the highest wattage made for this type of bulb/fixture right > > > now but you can increase your lighting > > > (lumens) and K (Kelvin) rating. See below. > > > > > > NOTE - below links are for example/informational purposes only, as > > > I know nothing about the sites. God... did I just say that? Do I > > > really have to add disclaimers to my posts now? LOL Just laughing at myself. > > > LOL > > > > > > This may be your Sylvania bulb... > > > http://www.lightbul <http://www.lightbul <http://www.lightbulbemporium.com/proddetail.asp?prod=F40/EX50> bemporium.com/proddetail.asp?prod=F40/EX50> bemporium.com/proddetail.asp?prod=F40/EX50 > <http://www.lightbul <http://www.lightbul <http://www.lightbulbemporium.com/proddetail.asp?prod=F40/EX50> bemporium.com/proddetail.asp?prod=F40/EX50> bemporium.com/proddetail.asp?prod=F40/EX50> > > <http://www.lightbul <http://www.lightbul <http://www.lightbulbemporium.com/proddetail.asp?prod=F40/EX50> bemporium.com/proddetail.asp?prod=F40/EX50> bemporium.com/proddetail.asp?prod=F40/EX50 > <http://www.lightbul <http://www.lightbul <http://www.lightbulbemporium.com/proddetail.asp?prod=F40/EX50> bemporium.com/proddetail.asp?prod=F40/EX50> bemporium.com/proddetail.asp?prod=F40/EX50>> > > > <http://www.lightbul <http://www.lightbul <http://www.lightbulbemporium.com/proddetail.asp?prod=F40/EX50> bemporium.com/proddetail.asp?prod=F40/EX50> bemporium.com/proddetail.asp?prod=F40/EX50 > <http://www.lightbul <http://www.lightbul <http://www.lightbulbemporium.com/proddetail.asp?prod=F40/EX50> bemporium.com/proddetail.asp?prod=F40/EX50> bemporium.com/proddetail.asp?prod=F40/EX50> > > <http://www.lightbul <http://www.lightbul <http://www.lightbulbemporium.com/proddetail.asp?prod=F40/EX50> bemporium.com/proddetail.asp?prod=F40/EX50> bemporium.com/proddetail.asp?prod=F40/EX50 > <http://www.lightbul <http://www.lightbul <http://www.lightbulbemporium.com/proddetail.asp?prod=F40/EX50> bemporium.com/proddetail.asp?prod=F40/EX50> bemporium.com/proddetail.asp?prod=F40/EX50>>> and > if > > > it is, then it's the same ratings as the specs in the T-10 bulb > > > that I copy/pasted below, which is a pretty good bulb with higher > > > lumens and the higher K rating, although not a 6500K rated bulb. > > > At the bottom of this page, there was a link to this bulb... > > > > > > http://www.lightbul <http://www.lightbul <http://www.lightbulbemporium.com/maxlite_51204_ml_f40t10_850_rscg.asp> bemporium.com/maxlite_51204_ml_f40t10_850_rscg.asp> bemporium.com/maxlite_51204_ml_f40t10_850_rscg.asp > <http://www.lightbul <http://www.lightbul <http://www.lightbulbemporium.com/maxlite_51204_ml_f40t10_850_rscg.asp> bemporium.com/maxlite_51204_ml_f40t10_850_rscg.asp> bemporium.com/maxlite_51204_ml_f40t10_850_rscg.asp > > > > > <http://www.lightbul <http://www.lightbul <http://www.lightbulbemporium.com/maxlite_51204_ml_f40t10_850_rscg.asp> bemporium.com/maxlite_51204_ml_f40t10_850_rscg.asp> bemporium.com/maxlite_51204_ml_f40t10_850_rscg.asp > <http://www.lightbul <http://www.lightbul <http://www.lightbulbemporium.com/maxlite_51204_ml_f40t10_850_rscg.asp> bemporium.com/maxlite_51204_ml_f40t10_850_rscg.asp> bemporium.com/maxlite_51204_ml_f40t10_850_rscg.asp > >> > > > > > > <http://www.lightbul <http://www.lightbul <http://www.lightbulbemporium.com/maxlite_51204_ml_f40t10_850_rscg.asp> bemporium.com/maxlite_51204_ml_f40t10_850_rscg.asp> bemporium.com/maxlite_51204_ml_f40t10_850_rscg.asp > <http://www.lightbul <http://www.lightbul <http://www.lightbulbemporium.com/maxlite_51204_ml_f40t10_850_rscg.asp> bemporium.com/maxlite_51204_ml_f40t10_850_rscg.asp> bemporium.com/maxlite_51204_ml_f40t10_850_rscg.asp > > > > > <http://www.lightbul <http://www.lightbul <http://www.lightbulbemporium.com/maxlite_51204_ml_f40t10_850_rscg.asp> bemporium.com/maxlite_51204_ml_f40t10_850_rscg.asp> bemporium.com/maxlite_51204_ml_f40t10_850_rscg.asp > <http://www.lightbul <http://www.lightbul <http://www.lightbulbemporium.com/maxlite_51204_ml_f40t10_850_rscg.asp> bemporium.com/maxlite_51204_ml_f40t10_850_rscg.asp> bemporium.com/maxlite_51204_ml_f40t10_850_rscg.asp > >> > > > > > > > which > > > has an even higher lumen rating of 3700, although not much higher > > > than the 3550 rating but every little bit helps especially since > > > the MaxLite bulb was a lower price than the Sylvania bulb. > > > > > > As you will see on this page > > > > > > http://www.lightbul <http://www.lightbul <http://www.lightbulbsdirect.com/Merchant2/merchant.mvc?page=001/CTGY/F> bsdirect.com/Merchant2/merchant.mvc?page=001/CTGY/F> bsdirect.com/Merchant2/merchant.mvc?page=001/CTGY/F > <http://www.lightbul <http://www.lightbul <http://www.lightbulbsdirect.com/Merchant2/merchant.mvc?page=001/CTGY/> bsdirect.com/Merchant2/merchant.mvc?page=001/CTGY/> bsdirect.com/Merchant2/merchant.mvc?page=001/CTGY/ > F> > > > <http://www.lightbul <http://www.lightbul <http://www.lightbulbsdirect.com/Merchant2/merchant.mvc?page=001/CTGY/> bsdirect.com/Merchant2/merchant.mvc?page=001/CTGY/> bsdirect.com/Merchant2/merchant.mvc?page=001/CTGY/ > F > <http://www.lightbul <http://www.lightbul <http://www.lightbulbsdirect.com/Merchant2/merchant.mvc?page=001/CTGY/> bsdirect.com/Merchant2/merchant.mvc?page=001/CTGY/> bsdirect.com/Merchant2/merchant.mvc?page=001/CTGY/ > F>> > > > S+Fluo > > > > > > <http://www.lightbul <http://www.lightbul <http://www.lightbulbsdirect.com/Merchant2/merchant.mvc?page=001/CTGY/> bsdirect.com/Merchant2/merchant.mvc?page=001/CTGY/> bsdirect.com/Merchant2/merchant.mvc?page=001/CTGY/ > <http://www.lightbul <http://www.lightbul <http://www.lightbulbsdirect.com/Merchant2/merchant.mvc?page=001/CTGY/> bsdirect.com/Merchant2/merchant.mvc?page=001/CTGY/> bsdirect.com/Merchant2/merchant.mvc?page=001/CTGY/ > > > > > <http://www.lightbul <http://www.lightbul <http://www.lightbulbsdirect.com/Merchant2/merchant.mvc?page=001/CTGY/> bsdirect.com/Merchant2/merchant.mvc?page=001/CTGY/> bsdirect.com/Merchant2/merchant.mvc?page=001/CTGY/ > <http://www.lightbul <http://www.lightbul <http://www.lightbulbsdirect.com/Merchant2/merchant.mvc?page=001/CTGY/> bsdirect.com/Merchant2/merchant.mvc?page=001/CTGY/> bsdirect.com/Merchant2/merchant.mvc?page=001/CTGY/ > >> > > > FS+Fluo> > > > rescent > > > > > > The second bulb down would be similar to yours, except we do not > > > know the lumen or color spectrum rating on your bulb, unless that > > > link I gave above is actually your bulb and then it would be the > > > same as this one. The specs on it are: > > > > > > T-10 Fluorescent > > > 40 Watts > > > Length: 48" > > > Medium Bi-Pin Base > > > Color: 5000K Temperature > > > Initial Lumens: 3550 > > > CRI: 84 > > > Average Life: 20,000 Hours > > > > > > The Color spectrum of 5000K (Kelvin) is OK but 6500K would be much > > better. > > > The Lumens of 3550 is the actual amount of *light* > > > > > > The next bulb down from that one is a T-12, which will also fit in > > > your fixture but they are bigger diameter bulbs and this one > > > actually puts out less light (lumens). Here are the specs: > > > > > > T-12 Fluorescent > > > 40 Watts > > > Length: 48" > > > Base: Medium Bi-Pin Base > > > Initial Lumens: 2200 > > > Average Life: 20,000 Hours > > > Color Temperature: 5000K > > > CRI: 92 > > > > > > It has the same Color spectrum but only 2200 lumens so the above > > > T-10 bulb has around 50% more lumens (light) coming out of it. > > > > > > Now, if you scroll down to the second from the bottom on the page, > > > you'll see the Verilux Instant-Sun T-12 bulb which has a higher > > > Kelvin rating but it doesn't list the lumens so this needs to be > > > checked out further. While the higher K rating is good, if it goes > > > back down to only 2200 lumens, instead of the 3550 lumens of the > > > first referenced bulb above, then I would probably go with the > > > 3550 lumens, 5000K bulb over the 6280K bulb if the lumens were a LOT less. > > > > > > (START SNIP) > > > Engineered to reproduce all the colors and balance of natural > > > light, VeriluxR full spectrum fluorescent tubes feature Trucolite > > > Phosphor TechnologyT which includes the use of a stable, custom > > > blend of earth phosphors that create bright, balanced full spectrum light. > > > T-12 Fluorescent > > > 40 Watts > > > Length: 48" > > > Color Temperature: 6280K > > > CRI: 94 > > > Medium Bi-Pin Base > > > (END SNIP) > > > > > > So, as you can see, there's a few things to look for when shopping > > > for new replacement bulbs. Look for the 5000K to 6500K bulbs with > > > the higher lumen rating for the dollar and you should be good. > > > Note that a 3550 or 3700 lumen bulb will put out nearly twice as > > > much light as a 2000 lumen bulb so it can be easy to increase your > > > lighting without increasing the wattage. DO NOT try to use HO or > > > VHO bulbs... which look similar but have much higher wattage, well > > > over the 40W bulbs you now have. These other HO and VHO bulbs have > > > different pin arrangements so they will not fit in your fixture > > > anyhow but I just wanted to save you a trip. > > > > > > Last but not least, if you're handy, you could even take the bulbs > > > out of your fixtures and line the insides of your fixtures with > > > nice and crisp and flat aluminum foil (shiny side exposed) which > > > will also help. Using double stick tape and then carefully > > > applying the foil so it does not wrinkle too much will work > > > well... especially if the inside of your fixture is black. A white > > > reflector is good but a mirrored reflector, like that created by > > > the shiny side of foil, is MUCH better than a black reflector. > > > Most black fixtures do at least have white reflector areas. > > > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> blogspot.com> blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> blogspot.com> blogspot.com> > > <http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> blogspot.com> blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> blogspot.com> blogspot.com>> > > > <http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> blogspot.com> blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> blogspot.com> blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> blogspot.com> blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> blogspot.com> blogspot.com>>> > > (Links to any articles referenced in > > > above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under > > > Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > From: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > [mailto:AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On Behalf Of > > > erikaandnewton > > > Sent: Tuesday, November 10, 2009 10:17 AM > > > To: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: wisteria/lighting previous > > > question/response revisited > > > > > > << When you say "two strips" do you have two 4' long two-bulb > > > fixtures already or something else?>> > > > > > > i have two 4' single bulb strip lights. > > > > > > >> What kind of lighting do you currently have? Look at the bulbs > > > >> and there should be some kind of writing on one of the ends. > > > >> Give us that info if you cannot decipher it yourself.<< > > > > > > one bulb is a f40 t10 > > > the other one is a sylvania daylight bulb also f40 > > > > > > >> It's probably 21" tall, since a common measurement for a 75G is > > > >> 48"x18"x21" Tall.>> > > > > > > it is 21 inches tall > > > > > > erika wilmington de usa [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] ------------------------------------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. 74/`7.88.><((((:>.74/`7.88.74/`7.8><((((:> 8.74/`7.8. , .74/`7..><((((:> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <:((((><.74/`7.88.74/`7.8<:((((><8.74/`7.8. , .74/`7..<:((((><74/`7.88. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the home page. Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com to receive the digest, which includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com for the No E-Mail option where you will still be able to read messages on the group and post replies. Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com to receive individual e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 44440	From: Donna Ransome	Date: 11/12/2009
Subject: Re: Why am I getting these weird messages to this address?

Plain text. _____ From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Steve Szabo Sent: Thursday, November 12, 2009 7:10 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Why am I getting these weird messages to this address? It would be interesting to see whose messages are doing this for you. I am not seeing any of this, but I do have my settings for plain text on the Yahoo! lists I belong to, and I have not seen it. Are you receiving plain text only, or do you receive the HTML versions of the messages? \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Donna Ransome Sent: Thursday, November 12, 2009 6:56 AM To: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Why am I getting these weird messages to this address? Just certain ones from this list. Should I look at who the senders have been? _____ From: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Steve Szabo Sent: Wednesday, November 11, 2009 10:40 PM To: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Why am I getting these weird messages to this address? Donna, I'd venture that something is munging the messages along the way from Yahoo! to you. Unless this is happening to others here, it probably is not a Yahoo! problem, but occurring at a point closer to you. Do all your messages come in this way? If not is it happening to just Yahoo! messages, or is it just those from this list? \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Donna Ransome Sent: Wednesday, November 11, 2009 7:54 PM To: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Why am I getting these weird messages to this address? sentto-8495157- <mailto:sentto-8495157-44406-1257953244-djransome%3Doptonline.net%40returns. groups.yahoo> 44406-1257953244- <mailto:44406-1257953244-djransome%3Doptonline.net%40returns.groups.yahoo> djransome=optonline.net@... .com It seems to be associated with aquatic life. This one eventually was from Bill with a bunch of stuff in the header first. _____ From: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Steve Szabo Sent: Wednesday, November 11, 2009 6:43 AM To: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: wisteria/lighting previous question/response revisited Lenny, I don't need no steenkin' hack. In Firefox, the bookmarks are kept as they should be, as one file, not each bookmark in a separate file gobbling up disk space as IE does. It also eats up space in the MFT (Master File Table). For those who do not know about such things, when a drive is formatted to hold data, it is broken up into groups of sectors, known as clusters, the value of which defaults, in Windows, to 4K (4096 bytes). They can be any value from 512 bytes to at least 32K (it may be even larger now, with NTFS (new technology file system, but 32K was the limit under 16 bit DOS). When a file is written to disk, using 4K cluster size for the example, it takes up as many clusters as needed. So, a file that is 32K in size would use 8 clusters (4K x 8). A file that is 28K would use 7 clusters (28 k/4K=7). However, a file that is 29K would use 8 clusters. It would fill the 7 clusters, with an extra 1024 bytes, which are placed in the next, or 8th cluster, leaving 3K of that cluster as being unavailable to another file. Consider now, that each bookmark is generally less than 1K (1024 bytes). When you are using IE (Internet Explorer), that means that you are wasting 3K of each available cluster to store the bookmark as a file. Let us assume you have 400 bookmarks. I am sure you can do the math. That would mean that you have 400 files, each taking up 4K of disk space, meaning that you are using 1600K to store those files. This means that 400 entries are placed in the MFT. In the case of Firefox, and other browsers not based on IE, all the bookmarks are stored in a file. Say that you have the same 400 bookmarks, using 1K as the size of each bookmark, on average, that would mean that you have a file that is 400K in size, which (conveniently, it seems) works out to a 100K file, stored in 25 clusters and 1 entry in the MFT. A great savings in disk space. There are other issues to consider here as well, but I am sure you are plenty bored by know. However, (oh no!, he's going to say more even though he said he was done) please keep in mind that drive manufacturers use a decimal system to calculate drive sizes, so that 250GB drive you have in your box is not 250GB to the computer, which uses a binary system to calculate drive size. That is why, when you look at the drive size through your operating system, the drive appears to be smaller than advertised. It's kind of like that 55 gallon tank that actually holds less than 55 gallons. Tank measurements are measuring the outside dimensions of the tank not the inside dimensions, plus, none of use fills a tank right to the top of the tank, giving us an actual capacity of somewhat less than 55 gallons, and that is before we add substrate and decorations, fish, and plants to the tank, each displacing a certain amount of water. (You may insert your own Archimedes joke here.) (Notice how I actually brought this back onto an aquarium topic?) \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Lenny V. aka GoldLenny Sent: Wednesday, November 11, 2009 1:30 AM To: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: wisteria/lighting previous question/response revisited Yeah... I keep kind of hoping that Google will eventually provide an online "Bookmarks/Favorites" service or homepage add-in, which would also include a search feature and maybe even a way to scan for bad links in the Bookmarks/Favorites instead of finding out when you go to use that long kept bookmark/favorite and the site no longer exists... of course, there's always the Wayback Machine at the Internet Archive http://www.archive. <http://www.archive. <http://www.archive. <http://www.archive.org> org> org> org to find websites/pages that have disappeared from the net. I regularly go into my IE Favorites and use the "Organize Favorites" feature to move things around but also will use Windows Explorer, C:\Documents and Settings\Owner\Favorites\, to look at my Favorites folder and drag and drop, move and rename things around in there. Then, there is this Registry hack to mass sort the Favorites folder, sub-folders and files, instead of having to "Sort By Name" inside each folder. From http://www.theelder <http://www.theelder <http://www.theelder <http://www.theeldergeek.com/sort_favorites_menu_alphabetical.htm> geek.com/sort_favorites_menu_alphabetical.htm> geek.com/sort_favorites_menu_alphabetical.htm> geek.com/sort_favorites_menu_alphabetical.htm (with some added instructions by me to clarify some things). Sort Favorites Menu Alphabetically [Start] [Run] [Regedit] Registry Key: HKEY_CURRENT_USER\Software\Microsoft\Windows\CurrentVersion\Explorer\MenuOrd er\Favorites (Click on Favorites to highlight, then in the view panel) Right click the Favorites key *Order* and click Delete Exit registry and reboot. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> blogspot.com> blogspot.com> blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Steve Szabo Sent: Tuesday, November 10, 2009 11:43 PM To: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: wisteria/lighting previous question/response revisited Lenny, I have a couple of problems. First, I do have a lot of folders and sub folders for things, and try to use them. However, I can also be pressed for time, and just bookmark it, thinking I'll fix it later. Somehow, later comes even later than one would expect, and when it does arrive, I do a bunch, but never finish going through the list. The other problem is that what made sense at the time, may not make sense when I am looking for the bookmark, possible because I a thinking about the topic in a different way than when I bookmarked the site. It is kind of like how one searches the web. If your first key words do not provide what you are looking for, you modify those terms and search again. Same topic, a bit different way of looking at it. Eventually, you will get what you want. What I probably need is a bookmark search engine. For those of you who were born and weaned with Windows, bookmarks is the correct term, not Microsoft's Favorites, though, I must admit, it is possible to have favorite bookmarks. \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Lenny V. aka GoldLenny Sent: Tuesday, November 10, 2009 11:57 PM To: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: wisteria/lighting previous question/response revisited Bookmarks and Favorites are filing systems... if you don't know how/where it's filed, you won't find it anyhow. I have an extensive Favorites folder with dozens of primary folders and then dozens if not hundreds of sub-folders and sub-sub-folders, for example, under Favorites, I have 59 primary folders and one of them is called Aquarium Sites, then, in that folder, I have 44 alphabetized sub-folders just in that folder, from Additives and Algae to Tutorials-Quizzes and UGF Filters (no V,W,X,Y,Z sub-folders under Aquarium... not sure why not). Then in the Algae folder, I have 7 sub-sub-folders dealing with topics such as Algae Eaters, Allelopathic Control, Diatoms-Brown Algae, Hair Algae, Hydrogen Peroxide, Pond Algae, SeaChem Flourish Excel For Treating Algae and then 11 other favorites about Algae in general, for a total of 48 links, just about Algae. My Favorites folder, when looking at its Properties, is 1.41MB in size and consists of 2,057 files (links) and 306 folders (incl. sub and sub-sub folders) in totality. Many years of surfing and saving and starting off with an organizational plan from the start makes it easy for me to navigate and find things easily. My Favorites is like a mini-Google. ;-) I have been toying around with the idea of using a web resource to keep my Favorites folder online so I can sync it with all of my computers and/or just use it as an online Favorites folder that I can log into from any computer. For now, I use LogMeIn (Free) to connect to my main computer from my laptop when I'm out in the streets playing... oops.. I meant working. But I don't think I'd share my Favorites or then I'd have to go in and edit out all my favorite porn links... well, maybe not for Bill. LOL Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> blogspot.com> blogspot.com> blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Amber Berglund Sent: Tuesday, November 10, 2009 10:25 PM To: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: wisteria/lighting previous question/response revisited No worries Bill, I do the same thing, maybe Lenny will be so kind as to send us all his bookmarks? LOL Amber bill 1433 wrote: > > Yes, Amber > > It was I, looking for the original information and also looked back on > \\Steve//'s post at group to try and find. Ray had mentioned all this > the other day saying that he thought the posting came from \\Steve//. > > I was not successful in my search. Also, for me the most important > part was a link to a chart which showed you exactly, or explained > exactly the "T" factor stands for. For instance, T-4 would be a tube > that is a half inch wide, or close to it-----------I think. All this > is my own fault. In my interest to acquire and learn about lighting,I > went through and studied the applied links but being ol'bill, I never > bookmarked them. Then to further compound the problem, I deleted the > original message that it came from. In hind-sight you could probably > chalk this all up to felonious stupidity on my part. > > Bill---where its always a good day if I learn something new! > > --- On Tue, 11/10/09, Amber Berglund <arberglund@gmail. <mailto:arberglund%40gmail.com> com > <mailto:arberglund%40gmail.com>> wrote: > > From: Amber Berglund <arberglund@gmail. <mailto:arberglund%40gmail.com> com > <mailto:arberglund%40gmail.com>> > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: wisteria/lighting previous > question/response revisited > To: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Date: Tuesday, November 10, 2009, 9:30 PM > > I believe it was Steve who posted a link about lumens months back when > (I think it was maybe Bill asking) about lighting for planted aquariums. > Plants require 2 different spectrums of light to properly produce > either leaves or flowers (red is more for flower production and blue > is more for growth, but for the best growing you want a mixture of BOTH colors). > So in reality you would want a light that appears more brown/reddish > in coloring and a blue/white coloring as well, but they now have bulbs > that have BOTH spectrums built in (I'm sure they don't work as well as > it would to have 2 different bulbs one mostly red and the other mostly > blue on the color spectrum). > Let me see if I still have the link bookmarked. > What I was trying to say is that Kelvin does not tell you what color > spectrum the light REALLY is, it's actually measuring it's light > output color according to how the human eyes perceive it. So 6500 > kelvin in general is what most plants will prefer because that is a > mixture of both red and blue spectrums (In MOST bulbs) unfortunately > not all light bulb manufactures have to use the exact same chart for > their colors, so they will have different colors than another bulb > that says it's 6500 Kelvin. what you really need to read is the color > chart on the box, not what lumens it says it is. > (still searching for link, LOL). > > This isn't the right link but it discusses the kelvin/lumen problems a > little bit, still looking for the link that showed the charts and what > to look for in the color charts. > http://www.american <http://www.american <http://www.american <http://www.americanaquariumproducts.com/Aquarium_Lighting.html> aquariumproducts.com/Aquarium_Lighting.html> aquariumproducts.com/Aquarium_Lighting.html> aquariumproducts.com/Aquarium_Lighting.html > <http://www.american <http://www.american <http://www.american <http://www.americanaquariumproducts.com/Aquarium_Lighting.html> aquariumproducts.com/Aquarium_Lighting.html> aquariumproducts.com/Aquarium_Lighting.html> aquariumproducts.com/Aquarium_Lighting.html> > > Will post again when I find the other link with chart examples. > > Amber > > Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > > > > I think it would be false advertising or possibly mis-advertising > (if they > > do not know any better) if a company lists their bulbs as 6500K and > > they aren't. The Kelvin scale, just like Watts and Lumens, are ALL > > universal and scientifically measurable scales BUT, as I showed > > below, not all 40 watt bulbs put out the same amount of light > > (lumens) or in the same color spectrum (Kelvin rating). All 40 watt > > bulbs, whether incandescent, fluorescent, CFL, LED, Halogen, etc.... > > ALL use only/around 40 watts of electricity but their light output > > can vary dramatically. This is why fluorescent bulbs are so much > > more efficient than incandescent bulbs and CFL's are even more > > efficient... as a 40W fluorescent bulb puts out > a LOT > > more light (lumens) than a 40 watt incandescent bulb and a 40W CFL > > puts out more light (lumens) than a 40W fluorescent bulb. This is > > why the OLD "Watts Per Gallon" rule simply does not work any more. > > > > BUT.. if three different companies are selling standard T-10 > > fluorescent bulbs with the same exact rating of 40W, 3550 lumens and > > 6500K rating... all three of those bulbs should be VERY SIMILAR if > > not identical in the way they appear to our eyes (subject to our own > > degree of color blindness, of > > course!) > > > > In the past, things like "soft white", "warm white", "daylight", > > "plant grow", etc., type terms were used and are still used but > > those are just simple words (not subject to a scientific scale) to > > describe the Kelvin rating ranges but lumens are just as important > > since a bulb could have a 6500K rating with only 2200 lumens where > > another bulb could have a 6500K rating and 3550 or 3700 lumens and > > that bulb would put out over 50% more light (lumens) in the same > > color spectrum (Kelvin rating) so it > would be a > > much more cost effective bulb if it cost the same amount or only a > little > > more. > > > > I'm slightly confused about the "red and blue light for your plants" > > as those two colors are on opposite ends of the Kelvin Scale with > > reds and ambers in the lower numbers and greens and blues in the > > higher > numbers. I > > think this is why you would want a mid-range (5000K to 6500K) bulb > > as those are generally considered "full spectrum" or "daylight" > > bulbs. Here's a color picture of the Kelvin Scale, > > http://www.bltdirec <http://www.bltdirec <http://www.bltdirec <http://www.bltdirect.com/images/colour-temperature.jpg> t.com/images/colour-temperature.jpg> t.com/images/colour-temperature.jpg> t.com/images/colour-temperature.jpg > <http://www.bltdirec <http://www.bltdirec <http://www.bltdirec <http://www.bltdirect.com/images/colour-temperature.jpg> t.com/images/colour-temperature.jpg> t.com/images/colour-temperature.jpg> t.com/images/colour-temperature.jpg> > > <http://www.bltdirec <http://www.bltdirec <http://www.bltdirec <http://www.bltdirect.com/images/colour-temperature.jpg> t.com/images/colour-temperature.jpg> t.com/images/colour-temperature.jpg> t.com/images/colour-temperature.jpg > <http://www.bltdirec <http://www.bltdirec <http://www.bltdirec <http://www.bltdirect.com/images/colour-temperature.jpg> t.com/images/colour-temperature.jpg> t.com/images/colour-temperature.jpg> t.com/images/colour-temperature.jpg>> and you can > > visually > > see that the 5000K to 6500K range is all about the same "color". I > > think this is also why Actinic bulbs are usually higher and closer > > to the > 10000K > > range and up... apparently, the Kelvin lighting scale can go up to > 20,000K > > (according to this article about Reef Tanks > > http://nh.craigslis <http://nh.craigslis <http://nh.craigslis <http://nh.craigslist.org/for/1423072406.html> t.org/for/1423072406.html> t.org/for/1423072406.html> t.org/for/1423072406.html > <http://nh.craigslis <http://nh.craigslis <http://nh.craigslis <http://nh.craigslist.org/for/1423072406.html> t.org/for/1423072406.html> t.org/for/1423072406.html> t.org/for/1423072406.html> > > <http://nh.craigslis <http://nh.craigslis <http://nh.craigslis <http://nh.craigslist.org/for/1423072406.html> t.org/for/1423072406.html> t.org/for/1423072406.html> t.org/for/1423072406.html > <http://nh.craigslis <http://nh.craigslis <http://nh.craigslis <http://nh.craigslist.org/for/1423072406.html> t.org/for/1423072406.html> t.org/for/1423072406.html> t.org/for/1423072406.html>> on, of all places, > > Craigslist). > > Here is the page that that the above photo link came from and it has > > a chart that also explains things a little more also and talks about > > the > CRI, yet > > another lighting term (Color Rendition Index). > > http://www.bltdirec <http://www.bltdirec <http://www.bltdirec <http://www.bltdirect.com/lampColourTemperatures.php> t.com/lampColourTemperatures.php> t.com/lampColourTemperatures.php> t.com/lampColourTemperatures.php > <http://www.bltdirec <http://www.bltdirec <http://www.bltdirec <http://www.bltdirect.com/lampColourTemperatures.php> t.com/lampColourTemperatures.php> t.com/lampColourTemperatures.php> t.com/lampColourTemperatures.php> > > <http://www.bltdirec <http://www.bltdirec <http://www.bltdirec <http://www.bltdirect.com/lampColourTemperatures.php> t.com/lampColourTemperatures.php> t.com/lampColourTemperatures.php> t.com/lampColourTemperatures.php > <http://www.bltdirec <http://www.bltdirec <http://www.bltdirec <http://www.bltdirect.com/lampColourTemperatures.php> t.com/lampColourTemperatures.php> t.com/lampColourTemperatures.php> t.com/lampColourTemperatures.php>> > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> blogspot.com> blogspot.com> blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> blogspot.com> blogspot.com> blogspot.com> <http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> blogspot.com> blogspot.com> blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> blogspot.com> blogspot.com> blogspot.com>> > > (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the > > right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by > > Year, > Month) > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > [mailto:AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On Behalf Of Amber Berglund > > Sent: Tuesday, November 10, 2009 4:22 PM > > To: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: wisteria/lighting previous > > question/response revisited > > > > Another thing to consider is one light company's 6500 kelvin rating > > may not be identical to another light bulb from a different company > > that's rated the same. The important thing to look at is the color > > chart they show on the boxes, you want more red and blue light for > > your plants, green is not useful or harmful as the plants reflect > > the light back (makes them appear more green but does nothing else > > for them). The kelvin rating is based on our eyes and how they > > perceive color, so each company doesn't have to be identical, > > perhaps some day they will have a universal way to measure light > > spectrums on bulbs that is much less confusing. > > > > Amber > > > > Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > > > > > > OK. So you have a total of 80 watts right now, which is just over > > > 1 WPG, which means you only have enough lighting for low-light, > > > easy to grow plants. See my blog article "Planted Tank: So You > > > Want A Planted Tank" for links to lists of low-light, easy to grow > > > plants that will do OK in your tank. You should replace those tubes at least yearly... > > > although some say every six months. As far as I know, a 40W bulb > > > is the highest wattage made for this type of bulb/fixture right > > > now but you can increase your lighting > > > (lumens) and K (Kelvin) rating. See below. > > > > > > NOTE - below links are for example/informational purposes only, as > > > I know nothing about the sites. God... did I just say that? Do I > > > really have to add disclaimers to my posts now? LOL Just laughing at myself. > > > LOL > > > > > > This may be your Sylvania bulb... > > > http://www.lightbul <http://www.lightbul <http://www.lightbul <http://www.lightbulbemporium.com/proddetail.asp?prod=F40/EX50> bemporium.com/proddetail.asp?prod=F40/EX50> bemporium.com/proddetail.asp?prod=F40/EX50> bemporium.com/proddetail.asp?prod=F40/EX50 > <http://www.lightbul <http://www.lightbul <http://www.lightbul <http://www.lightbulbemporium.com/proddetail.asp?prod=F40/EX50> bemporium.com/proddetail.asp?prod=F40/EX50> bemporium.com/proddetail.asp?prod=F40/EX50> bemporium.com/proddetail.asp?prod=F40/EX50> > > <http://www.lightbul <http://www.lightbul <http://www.lightbul <http://www.lightbulbemporium.com/proddetail.asp?prod=F40/EX50> bemporium.com/proddetail.asp?prod=F40/EX50> bemporium.com/proddetail.asp?prod=F40/EX50> bemporium.com/proddetail.asp?prod=F40/EX50 > <http://www.lightbul <http://www.lightbul <http://www.lightbul <http://www.lightbulbemporium.com/proddetail.asp?prod=F40/EX50> bemporium.com/proddetail.asp?prod=F40/EX50> bemporium.com/proddetail.asp?prod=F40/EX50> bemporium.com/proddetail.asp?prod=F40/EX50>> > > > <http://www.lightbul <http://www.lightbul <http://www.lightbul <http://www.lightbulbemporium.com/proddetail.asp?prod=F40/EX50> bemporium.com/proddetail.asp?prod=F40/EX50> bemporium.com/proddetail.asp?prod=F40/EX50> bemporium.com/proddetail.asp?prod=F40/EX50 > <http://www.lightbul <http://www.lightbul <http://www.lightbul <http://www.lightbulbemporium.com/proddetail.asp?prod=F40/EX50> bemporium.com/proddetail.asp?prod=F40/EX50> bemporium.com/proddetail.asp?prod=F40/EX50> bemporium.com/proddetail.asp?prod=F40/EX50> > > <http://www.lightbul <http://www.lightbul <http://www.lightbul <http://www.lightbulbemporium.com/proddetail.asp?prod=F40/EX50> bemporium.com/proddetail.asp?prod=F40/EX50> bemporium.com/proddetail.asp?prod=F40/EX50> bemporium.com/proddetail.asp?prod=F40/EX50 > <http://www.lightbul <http://www.lightbul <http://www.lightbul <http://www.lightbulbemporium.com/proddetail.asp?prod=F40/EX50> bemporium.com/proddetail.asp?prod=F40/EX50> bemporium.com/proddetail.asp?prod=F40/EX50> bemporium.com/proddetail.asp?prod=F40/EX50>>> and > if > > > it is, then it's the same ratings as the specs in the T-10 bulb > > > that I copy/pasted below, which is a pretty good bulb with higher > > > lumens and the higher K rating, although not a 6500K rated bulb. > > > At the bottom of this page, there was a link to this bulb... > > > > > > http://www.lightbul <http://www.lightbul <http://www.lightbul <http://www.lightbulbemporium.com/maxlite_51204_ml_f40t10_850_rscg.asp> bemporium.com/maxlite_51204_ml_f40t10_850_rscg.asp> bemporium.com/maxlite_51204_ml_f40t10_850_rscg.asp> bemporium.com/maxlite_51204_ml_f40t10_850_rscg.asp > <http://www.lightbul <http://www.lightbul <http://www.lightbul <http://www.lightbulbemporium.com/maxlite_51204_ml_f40t10_850_rscg.asp> bemporium.com/maxlite_51204_ml_f40t10_850_rscg.asp> bemporium.com/maxlite_51204_ml_f40t10_850_rscg.asp> bemporium.com/maxlite_51204_ml_f40t10_850_rscg.asp > > > > > <http://www.lightbul <http://www.lightbul <http://www.lightbul <http://www.lightbulbemporium.com/maxlite_51204_ml_f40t10_850_rscg.asp> bemporium.com/maxlite_51204_ml_f40t10_850_rscg.asp> bemporium.com/maxlite_51204_ml_f40t10_850_rscg.asp> bemporium.com/maxlite_51204_ml_f40t10_850_rscg.asp > <http://www.lightbul <http://www.lightbul <http://www.lightbul <http://www.lightbulbemporium.com/maxlite_51204_ml_f40t10_850_rscg.asp> bemporium.com/maxlite_51204_ml_f40t10_850_rscg.asp> bemporium.com/maxlite_51204_ml_f40t10_850_rscg.asp> bemporium.com/maxlite_51204_ml_f40t10_850_rscg.asp > >> > > > > > > <http://www.lightbul <http://www.lightbul <http://www.lightbul <http://www.lightbulbemporium.com/maxlite_51204_ml_f40t10_850_rscg.asp> bemporium.com/maxlite_51204_ml_f40t10_850_rscg.asp> bemporium.com/maxlite_51204_ml_f40t10_850_rscg.asp> bemporium.com/maxlite_51204_ml_f40t10_850_rscg.asp > <http://www.lightbul <http://www.lightbul <http://www.lightbul <http://www.lightbulbemporium.com/maxlite_51204_ml_f40t10_850_rscg.asp> bemporium.com/maxlite_51204_ml_f40t10_850_rscg.asp> bemporium.com/maxlite_51204_ml_f40t10_850_rscg.asp> bemporium.com/maxlite_51204_ml_f40t10_850_rscg.asp > > > > > <http://www.lightbul <http://www.lightbul <http://www.lightbul <http://www.lightbulbemporium.com/maxlite_51204_ml_f40t10_850_rscg.asp> bemporium.com/maxlite_51204_ml_f40t10_850_rscg.asp> bemporium.com/maxlite_51204_ml_f40t10_850_rscg.asp> bemporium.com/maxlite_51204_ml_f40t10_850_rscg.asp > <http://www.lightbul <http://www.lightbul <http://www.lightbul <http://www.lightbulbemporium.com/maxlite_51204_ml_f40t10_850_rscg.asp> bemporium.com/maxlite_51204_ml_f40t10_850_rscg.asp> bemporium.com/maxlite_51204_ml_f40t10_850_rscg.asp> bemporium.com/maxlite_51204_ml_f40t10_850_rscg.asp > >> > > > > > > > which > > > has an even higher lumen rating of 3700, although not much higher > > > than the 3550 rating but every little bit helps especially since > > > the MaxLite bulb was a lower price than the Sylvania bulb. > > > > > > As you will see on this page > > > > > > http://www.lightbul <http://www.lightbul <http://www.lightbul <http://www.lightbulbsdirect.com/Merchant2/merchant.mvc?page=001/CTGY/F> bsdirect.com/Merchant2/merchant.mvc?page=001/CTGY/F> bsdirect.com/Merchant2/merchant.mvc?page=001/CTGY/F> bsdirect.com/Merchant2/merchant.mvc?page=001/CTGY/F > <http://www.lightbul <http://www.lightbul <http://www.lightbul <http://www.lightbulbsdirect.com/Merchant2/merchant.mvc?page=001/CTGY/> bsdirect.com/Merchant2/merchant.mvc?page=001/CTGY/> bsdirect.com/Merchant2/merchant.mvc?page=001/CTGY/> bsdirect.com/Merchant2/merchant.mvc?page=001/CTGY/ > F> > > > <http://www.lightbul <http://www.lightbul <http://www.lightbul <http://www.lightbulbsdirect.com/Merchant2/merchant.mvc?page=001/CTGY/> bsdirect.com/Merchant2/merchant.mvc?page=001/CTGY/> bsdirect.com/Merchant2/merchant.mvc?page=001/CTGY/> bsdirect.com/Merchant2/merchant.mvc?page=001/CTGY/ > F > <http://www.lightbul <http://www.lightbul <http://www.lightbul <http://www.lightbulbsdirect.com/Merchant2/merchant.mvc?page=001/CTGY/> bsdirect.com/Merchant2/merchant.mvc?page=001/CTGY/> bsdirect.com/Merchant2/merchant.mvc?page=001/CTGY/> bsdirect.com/Merchant2/merchant.mvc?page=001/CTGY/ > F>> > > > S+Fluo > > > > > > <http://www.lightbul <http://www.lightbul <http://www.lightbul <http://www.lightbulbsdirect.com/Merchant2/merchant.mvc?page=001/CTGY/> bsdirect.com/Merchant2/merchant.mvc?page=001/CTGY/> bsdirect.com/Merchant2/merchant.mvc?page=001/CTGY/> bsdirect.com/Merchant2/merchant.mvc?page=001/CTGY/ > <http://www.lightbul <http://www.lightbul <http://www.lightbul <http://www.lightbulbsdirect.com/Merchant2/merchant.mvc?page=001/CTGY/> bsdirect.com/Merchant2/merchant.mvc?page=001/CTGY/> bsdirect.com/Merchant2/merchant.mvc?page=001/CTGY/> bsdirect.com/Merchant2/merchant.mvc?page=001/CTGY/ > > > > > <http://www.lightbul <http://www.lightbul <http://www.lightbul <http://www.lightbulbsdirect.com/Merchant2/merchant.mvc?page=001/CTGY/> bsdirect.com/Merchant2/merchant.mvc?page=001/CTGY/> bsdirect.com/Merchant2/merchant.mvc?page=001/CTGY/> bsdirect.com/Merchant2/merchant.mvc?page=001/CTGY/ > <http://www.lightbul <http://www.lightbul <http://www.lightbul <http://www.lightbulbsdirect.com/Merchant2/merchant.mvc?page=001/CTGY/> bsdirect.com/Merchant2/merchant.mvc?page=001/CTGY/> bsdirect.com/Merchant2/merchant.mvc?page=001/CTGY/> bsdirect.com/Merchant2/merchant.mvc?page=001/CTGY/ > >> > > > FS+Fluo> > > > rescent > > > > > > The second bulb down would be similar to yours, except we do not > > > know the lumen or color spectrum rating on your bulb, unless that > > > link I gave above is actually your bulb and then it would be the > > > same as this one. The specs on it are: > > > > > > T-10 Fluorescent > > > 40 Watts > > > Length: 48" > > > Medium Bi-Pin Base > > > Color: 5000K Temperature > > > Initial Lumens: 3550 > > > CRI: 84 > > > Average Life: 20,000 Hours > > > > > > The Color spectrum of 5000K (Kelvin) is OK but 6500K would be much > > better. > > > The Lumens of 3550 is the actual amount of *light* > > > > > > The next bulb down from that one is a T-12, which will also fit in > > > your fixture but they are bigger diameter bulbs and this one > > > actually puts out less light (lumens). Here are the specs: > > > > > > T-12 Fluorescent > > > 40 Watts > > > Length: 48" > > > Base: Medium Bi-Pin Base > > > Initial Lumens: 2200 > > > Average Life: 20,000 Hours > > > Color Temperature: 5000K > > > CRI: 92 > > > > > > It has the same Color spectrum but only 2200 lumens so the above > > > T-10 bulb has around 50% more lumens (light) coming out of it. > > > > > > Now, if you scroll down to the second from the bottom on the page, > > > you'll see the Verilux Instant-Sun T-12 bulb which has a higher > > > Kelvin rating but it doesn't list the lumens so this needs to be > > > checked out further. While the higher K rating is good, if it goes > > > back down to only 2200 lumens, instead of the 3550 lumens of the > > > first referenced bulb above, then I would probably go with the > > > 3550 lumens, 5000K bulb over the 6280K bulb if the lumens were a LOT less. > > > > > > (START SNIP) > > > Engineered to reproduce all the colors and balance of natural > > > light, VeriluxR full spectrum fluorescent tubes feature Trucolite > > > Phosphor TechnologyT which includes the use of a stable, custom > > > blend of earth phosphors that create bright, balanced full spectrum light. > > > T-12 Fluorescent > > > 40 Watts > > > Length: 48" > > > Color Temperature: 6280K > > > CRI: 94 > > > Medium Bi-Pin Base > > > (END SNIP) > > > > > > So, as you can see, there's a few things to look for when shopping > > > for new replacement bulbs. Look for the 5000K to 6500K bulbs with > > > the higher lumen rating for the dollar and you should be good. > > > Note that a 3550 or 3700 lumen bulb will put out nearly twice as > > > much light as a 2000 lumen bulb so it can be easy to increase your > > > lighting without increasing the wattage. DO NOT try to use HO or > > > VHO bulbs... which look similar but have much higher wattage, well > > > over the 40W bulbs you now have. These other HO and VHO bulbs have > > > different pin arrangements so they will not fit in your fixture > > > anyhow but I just wanted to save you a trip. > > > > > > Last but not least, if you're handy, you could even take the bulbs > > > out of your fixtures and line the insides of your fixtures with > > > nice and crisp and flat aluminum foil (shiny side exposed) which > > > will also help. Using double stick tape and then carefully > > > applying the foil so it does not wrinkle too much will work > > > well... especially if the inside of your fixture is black. A white > > > reflector is good but a mirrored reflector, like that created by > > > the shiny side of foil, is MUCH better than a black reflector. > > > Most black fixtures do at least have white reflector areas. > > > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> blogspot.com> blogspot.com> blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> blogspot.com> blogspot.com> blogspot.com> > > <http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> blogspot.com> blogspot.com> blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> blogspot.com> blogspot.com> blogspot.com>> > > > <http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> blogspot.com> blogspot.com> blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> blogspot.com> blogspot.com> blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> blogspot.com> blogspot.com> blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> blogspot.com> blogspot.com> blogspot.com>>> > > (Links to any articles referenced in > > > above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under > > > Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > From: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > [mailto:AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On Behalf Of > > > erikaandnewton > > > Sent: Tuesday, November 10, 2009 10:17 AM > > > To: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: wisteria/lighting previous > > > question/response revisited > > > > > > << When you say "two strips" do you have two 4' long two-bulb > > > fixtures already or something else?>> > > > > > > i have two 4' single bulb strip lights. > > > > > > >> What kind of lighting do you currently have? Look at the bulbs > > > >> and there should be some kind of writing on one of the ends. > > > >> Give us that info if you cannot decipher it yourself.<< > > > > > > one bulb is a f40 t10 > > > the other one is a sylvania daylight bulb also f40 > > > > > > >> It's probably 21" tall, since a common measurement for a 75G is > > > >> 48"x18"x21" Tall.>> > > > > > > it is 21 inches tall > > > > > > erika wilmington de usa [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] ------------------------------------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. 74/`7.88.><((((:>.74/`7.88.74/`7.8><((((:> 8.74/`7.8. , .74/`7..><((((:> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <:((((><.74/`7.88.74/`7.8<:((((><8.74/`7.8. , .74/`7..<:((((><74/`7.88. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the home page. Or e-mail aquaticlife- <mailto:aquaticlife-digest%40yahoogroups.com> digest@yahoogroups.com to receive the digest, which includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email Or email aquaticlife- <mailto:aquaticlife-nomail%40yahoogroups.com> nomail@yahoogroups.com for the No E-Mail option where you will still be able to read messages on the group and post replies. Or email aquaticlife- <mailto:aquaticlife-normal%40yahoogroups.com> normal@yahoogroups.com to receive individual e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 44441	From: Wendie	Date: 11/12/2009
Subject: Re: Why am I getting these weird messages to this address?

This is something that just started happening to me in the last couple of weeks and I have not touched my Yahoo settings in years. Wendie ----- Original Message ----- From: Donna Ransome To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Thursday, November 12, 2009 7:42 AM Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Why am I getting these weird messages to this address? Plain text. _____ From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Steve Szabo Sent: Thursday, November 12, 2009 7:10 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Why am I getting these weird messages to this address? It would be interesting to see whose messages are doing this for you. I am not seeing any of this, but I do have my settings for plain text on the Yahoo! lists I belong to, and I have not seen it. Are you receiving plain text only, or do you receive the HTML versions of the messages? \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Donna Ransome Sent: Thursday, November 12, 2009 6:56 AM To: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Why am I getting these weird messages to this address? Just certain ones from this list. Should I look at who the senders have been? _____ From: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Steve Szabo Sent: Wednesday, November 11, 2009 10:40 PM To: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Why am I getting these weird messages to this address? Donna, I'd venture that something is munging the messages along the way from Yahoo! to you. Unless this is happening to others here, it probably is not a Yahoo! problem, but occurring at a point closer to you. Do all your messages come in this way? If not is it happening to just Yahoo! messages, or is it just those from this list? \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Donna Ransome Sent: Wednesday, November 11, 2009 7:54 PM To: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Why am I getting these weird messages to this address? sentto-8495157- <mailto:sentto-8495157-44406-1257953244-djransome%3Doptonline.net%40returns. groups.yahoo> 44406-1257953244- <mailto:44406-1257953244-djransome%3Doptonline.net%40returns.groups.yahoo> djransome=optonline.net@... .com It seems to be associated with aquatic life. This one eventually was from Bill with a bunch of stuff in the header first. _____ From: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Steve Szabo Sent: Wednesday, November 11, 2009 6:43 AM To: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: wisteria/lighting previous question/response revisited Lenny, I don't need no steenkin' hack. In Firefox, the bookmarks are kept as they should be, as one file, not each bookmark in a separate file gobbling up disk space as IE does. It also eats up space in the MFT (Master File Table). For those who do not know about such things, when a drive is formatted to hold data, it is broken up into groups of sectors, known as clusters, the value of which defaults, in Windows, to 4K (4096 bytes). They can be any value from 512 bytes to at least 32K (it may be even larger now, with NTFS (new technology file system, but 32K was the limit under 16 bit DOS). When a file is written to disk, using 4K cluster size for the example, it takes up as many clusters as needed. So, a file that is 32K in size would use 8 clusters (4K x 8). A file that is 28K would use 7 clusters (28 k/4K=7). However, a file that is 29K would use 8 clusters. It would fill the 7 clusters, with an extra 1024 bytes, which are placed in the next, or 8th cluster, leaving 3K of that cluster as being unavailable to another file. Consider now, that each bookmark is generally less than 1K (1024 bytes). When you are using IE (Internet Explorer), that means that you are wasting 3K of each available cluster to store the bookmark as a file. Let us assume you have 400 bookmarks. I am sure you can do the math. That would mean that you have 400 files, each taking up 4K of disk space, meaning that you are using 1600K to store those files. This means that 400 entries are placed in the MFT. In the case of Firefox, and other browsers not based on IE, all the bookmarks are stored in a file. Say that you have the same 400 bookmarks, using 1K as the size of each bookmark, on average, that would mean that you have a file that is 400K in size, which (conveniently, it seems) works out to a 100K file, stored in 25 clusters and 1 entry in the MFT. A great savings in disk space. There are other issues to consider here as well, but I am sure you are plenty bored by know. However, (oh no!, he's going to say more even though he said he was done) please keep in mind that drive manufacturers use a decimal system to calculate drive sizes, so that 250GB drive you have in your box is not 250GB to the computer, which uses a binary system to calculate drive size. That is why, when you look at the drive size through your operating system, the drive appears to be smaller than advertised. It's kind of like that 55 gallon tank that actually holds less than 55 gallons. Tank measurements are measuring the outside dimensions of the tank not the inside dimensions, plus, none of use fills a tank right to the top of the tank, giving us an actual capacity of somewhat less than 55 gallons, and that is before we add substrate and decorations, fish, and plants to the tank, each displacing a certain amount of water. (You may insert your own Archimedes joke here.) (Notice how I actually brought this back onto an aquarium topic?) \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Lenny V. aka GoldLenny Sent: Wednesday, November 11, 2009 1:30 AM To: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: wisteria/lighting previous question/response revisited Yeah... I keep kind of hoping that Google will eventually provide an online "Bookmarks/Favorites" service or homepage add-in, which would also include a search feature and maybe even a way to scan for bad links in the Bookmarks/Favorites instead of finding out when you go to use that long kept bookmark/favorite and the site no longer exists... of course, there's always the Wayback Machine at the Internet Archive http://www.archive. <http://www.archive. <http://www.archive. <http://www.archive.org> org> org> org to find websites/pages that have disappeared from the net. I regularly go into my IE Favorites and use the "Organize Favorites" feature to move things around but also will use Windows Explorer, C:\Documents and Settings\Owner\Favorites\, to look at my Favorites folder and drag and drop, move and rename things around in there. Then, there is this Registry hack to mass sort the Favorites folder, sub-folders and files, instead of having to "Sort By Name" inside each folder. From http://www.theelder <http://www.theelder <http://www.theelder <http://www.theeldergeek.com/sort_favorites_menu_alphabetical.htm> geek.com/sort_favorites_menu_alphabetical.htm> geek.com/sort_favorites_menu_alphabetical.htm> geek.com/sort_favorites_menu_alphabetical.htm (with some added instructions by me to clarify some things). Sort Favorites Menu Alphabetically [Start] [Run] [Regedit] Registry Key: HKEY_CURRENT_USER\Software\Microsoft\Windows\CurrentVersion\Explorer\MenuOrd er\Favorites (Click on Favorites to highlight, then in the view panel) Right click the Favorites key *Order* and click Delete Exit registry and reboot. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> blogspot.com> blogspot.com> blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Steve Szabo Sent: Tuesday, November 10, 2009 11:43 PM To: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: wisteria/lighting previous question/response revisited Lenny, I have a couple of problems. First, I do have a lot of folders and sub folders for things, and try to use them. However, I can also be pressed for time, and just bookmark it, thinking I'll fix it later. Somehow, later comes even later than one would expect, and when it does arrive, I do a bunch, but never finish going through the list. The other problem is that what made sense at the time, may not make sense when I am looking for the bookmark, possible because I a thinking about the topic in a different way than when I bookmarked the site. It is kind of like how one searches the web. If your first key words do not provide what you are looking for, you modify those terms and search again. Same topic, a bit different way of looking at it. Eventually, you will get what you want. What I probably need is a bookmark search engine. For those of you who were born and weaned with Windows, bookmarks is the correct term, not Microsoft's Favorites, though, I must admit, it is possible to have favorite bookmarks. \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Lenny V. aka GoldLenny Sent: Tuesday, November 10, 2009 11:57 PM To: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: wisteria/lighting previous question/response revisited Bookmarks and Favorites are filing systems... if you don't know how/where it's filed, you won't find it anyhow. I have an extensive Favorites folder with dozens of primary folders and then dozens if not hundreds of sub-folders and sub-sub-folders, for example, under Favorites, I have 59 primary folders and one of them is called Aquarium Sites, then, in that folder, I have 44 alphabetized sub-folders just in that folder, from Additives and Algae to Tutorials-Quizzes and UGF Filters (no V,W,X,Y,Z sub-folders under Aquarium... not sure why not). Then in the Algae folder, I have 7 sub-sub-folders dealing with topics such as Algae Eaters, Allelopathic Control, Diatoms-Brown Algae, Hair Algae, Hydrogen Peroxide, Pond Algae, SeaChem Flourish Excel For Treating Algae and then 11 other favorites about Algae in general, for a total of 48 links, just about Algae. My Favorites folder, when looking at its Properties, is 1.41MB in size and consists of 2,057 files (links) and 306 folders (incl. sub and sub-sub folders) in totality. Many years of surfing and saving and starting off with an organizational plan from the start makes it easy for me to navigate and find things easily. My Favorites is like a mini-Google. ;-) I have been toying around with the idea of using a web resource to keep my Favorites folder online so I can sync it with all of my computers and/or just use it as an online Favorites folder that I can log into from any computer. For now, I use LogMeIn (Free) to connect to my main computer from my laptop when I'm out in the streets playing... oops.. I meant working. But I don't think I'd share my Favorites or then I'd have to go in and edit out all my favorite porn links... well, maybe not for Bill. LOL Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> blogspot.com> blogspot.com> blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Amber Berglund Sent: Tuesday, November 10, 2009 10:25 PM To: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: wisteria/lighting previous question/response revisited No worries Bill, I do the same thing, maybe Lenny will be so kind as to send us all his bookmarks? LOL Amber bill 1433 wrote: > > Yes, Amber > > It was I, looking for the original information and also looked back on > \\Steve//'s post at group to try and find. Ray had mentioned all this > the other day saying that he thought the posting came from \\Steve//. > > I was not successful in my search. Also, for me the most important > part was a link to a chart which showed you exactly, or explained > exactly the "T" factor stands for. For instance, T-4 would be a tube > that is a half inch wide, or close to it-----------I think. All this > is my own fault. In my interest to acquire and learn about lighting,I > went through and studied the applied links but being ol'bill, I never > bookmarked them. Then to further compound the problem, I deleted the > original message that it came from. In hind-sight you could probably > chalk this all up to felonious stupidity on my part. > > Bill---where its always a good day if I learn something new! > > --- On Tue, 11/10/09, Amber Berglund <arberglund@gmail. <mailto:arberglund%40gmail.com> com > <mailto:arberglund%40gmail.com>> wrote: > > From: Amber Berglund <arberglund@gmail. <mailto:arberglund%40gmail.com> com > <mailto:arberglund%40gmail.com>> > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: wisteria/lighting previous > question/response revisited > To: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Date: Tuesday, November 10, 2009, 9:30 PM > > I believe it was Steve who posted a link about lumens months back when > (I think it was maybe Bill asking) about lighting for planted aquariums. > Plants require 2 different spectrums of light to properly produce > either leaves or flowers (red is more for flower production and blue > is more for growth, but for the best growing you want a mixture of BOTH colors). > So in reality you would want a light that appears more brown/reddish > in coloring and a blue/white coloring as well, but they now have bulbs > that have BOTH spectrums built in (I'm sure they don't work as well as > it would to have 2 different bulbs one mostly red and the other mostly > blue on the color spectrum). > Let me see if I still have the link bookmarked. > What I was trying to say is that Kelvin does not tell you what color > spectrum the light REALLY is, it's actually measuring it's light > output color according to how the human eyes perceive it. So 6500 > kelvin in general is what most plants will prefer because that is a > mixture of both red and blue spectrums (In MOST bulbs) unfortunately > not all light bulb manufactures have to use the exact same chart for > their colors, so they will have different colors than another bulb > that says it's 6500 Kelvin. what you really need to read is the color > chart on the box, not what lumens it says it is. > (still searching for link, LOL). > > This isn't the right link but it discusses the kelvin/lumen problems a > little bit, still looking for the link that showed the charts and what > to look for in the color charts. > http://www.american <http://www.american <http://www.american <http://www.americanaquariumproducts.com/Aquarium_Lighting.html> aquariumproducts.com/Aquarium_Lighting.html> aquariumproducts.com/Aquarium_Lighting.html> aquariumproducts.com/Aquarium_Lighting.html > <http://www.american <http://www.american <http://www.american <http://www.americanaquariumproducts.com/Aquarium_Lighting.html> aquariumproducts.com/Aquarium_Lighting.html> aquariumproducts.com/Aquarium_Lighting.html> aquariumproducts.com/Aquarium_Lighting.html> > > Will post again when I find the other link with chart examples. > > Amber > > Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > > > > I think it would be false advertising or possibly mis-advertising > (if they > > do not know any better) if a company lists their bulbs as 6500K and > > they aren't. The Kelvin scale, just like Watts and Lumens, are ALL > > universal and scientifically measurable scales BUT, as I showed > > below, not all 40 watt bulbs put out the same amount of light > > (lumens) or in the same color spectrum (Kelvin rating). All 40 watt > > bulbs, whether incandescent, fluorescent, CFL, LED, Halogen, etc.... > > ALL use only/around 40 watts of electricity but their light output > > can vary dramatically. This is why fluorescent bulbs are so much > > more efficient than incandescent bulbs and CFL's are even more > > efficient... as a 40W fluorescent bulb puts out > a LOT > > more light (lumens) than a 40 watt incandescent bulb and a 40W CFL > > puts out more light (lumens) than a 40W fluorescent bulb. This is > > why the OLD "Watts Per Gallon" rule simply does not work any more. > > > > BUT.. if three different companies are selling standard T-10 > > fluorescent bulbs with the same exact rating of 40W, 3550 lumens and > > 6500K rating... all three of those bulbs should be VERY SIMILAR if > > not identical in the way they appear to our eyes (subject to our own > > degree of color blindness, of > > course!) > > > > In the past, things like "soft white", "warm white", "daylight", > > "plant grow", etc., type terms were used and are still used but > > those are just simple words (not subject to a scientific scale) to > > describe the Kelvin rating ranges but lumens are just as important > > since a bulb could have a 6500K rating with only 2200 lumens where > > another bulb could have a 6500K rating and 3550 or 3700 lumens and > > that bulb would put out over 50% more light (lumens) in the same > > color spectrum (Kelvin rating) so it > would be a > > much more cost effective bulb if it cost the same amount or only a > little > > more. > > > > I'm slightly confused about the "red and blue light for your plants" > > as those two colors are on opposite ends of the Kelvin Scale with > > reds and ambers in the lower numbers and greens and blues in the > > higher > numbers. I > > think this is why you would want a mid-range (5000K to 6500K) bulb > > as those are generally considered "full spectrum" or "daylight" > > bulbs. Here's a color picture of the Kelvin Scale, > > http://www.bltdirec <http://www.bltdirec <http://www.bltdirec <http://www.bltdirect.com/images/colour-temperature.jpg> t.com/images/colour-temperature.jpg> t.com/images/colour-temperature.jpg> t.com/images/colour-temperature.jpg > <http://www.bltdirec <http://www.bltdirec <http://www.bltdirec <http://www.bltdirect.com/images/colour-temperature.jpg> t.com/images/colour-temperature.jpg> t.com/images/colour-temperature.jpg> t.com/images/colour-temperature.jpg> > > <http://www.bltdirec <http://www.bltdirec <http://www.bltdirec <http://www.bltdirect.com/images/colour-temperature.jpg> t.com/images/colour-temperature.jpg> t.com/images/colour-temperature.jpg> t.com/images/colour-temperature.jpg > <http://www.bltdirec <http://www.bltdirec <http://www.bltdirec <http://www.bltdirect.com/images/colour-temperature.jpg> t.com/images/colour-temperature.jpg> t.com/images/colour-temperature.jpg> t.com/images/colour-temperature.jpg>> and you can > > visually > > see that the 5000K to 6500K range is all about the same "color". I > > think this is also why Actinic bulbs are usually higher and closer > > to the > 10000K > > range and up... apparently, the Kelvin lighting scale can go up to > 20,000K > > (according to this article about Reef Tanks > > http://nh.craigslis <http://nh.craigslis <http://nh.craigslis <http://nh.craigslist.org/for/1423072406.html> t.org/for/1423072406.html> t.org/for/1423072406.html> t.org/for/1423072406.html > <http://nh.craigslis <http://nh.craigslis <http://nh.craigslis <http://nh.craigslist.org/for/1423072406.html> t.org/for/1423072406.html> t.org/for/1423072406.html> t.org/for/1423072406.html> > > <http://nh.craigslis <http://nh.craigslis <http://nh.craigslis <http://nh.craigslist.org/for/1423072406.html> t.org/for/1423072406.html> t.org/for/1423072406.html> t.org/for/1423072406.html > <http://nh.craigslis <http://nh.craigslis <http://nh.craigslis <http://nh.craigslist.org/for/1423072406.html> t.org/for/1423072406.html> t.org/for/1423072406.html> t.org/for/1423072406.html>> on, of all places, > > Craigslist). > > Here is the page that that the above photo link came from and it has > > a chart that also explains things a little more also and talks about > > the > CRI, yet > > another lighting term (Color Rendition Index). > > http://www.bltdirec <http://www.bltdirec <http://www.bltdirec <http://www.bltdirect.com/lampColourTemperatures.php> t.com/lampColourTemperatures.php> t.com/lampColourTemperatures.php> t.com/lampColourTemperatures.php > <http://www.bltdirec <http://www.bltdirec <http://www.bltdirec <http://www.bltdirect.com/lampColourTemperatures.php> t.com/lampColourTemperatures.php> t.com/lampColourTemperatures.php> t.com/lampColourTemperatures.php> > > <http://www.bltdirec <http://www.bltdirec <http://www.bltdirec <http://www.bltdirect.com/lampColourTemperatures.php> t.com/lampColourTemperatures.php> t.com/lampColourTemperatures.php> t.com/lampColourTemperatures.php > <http://www.bltdirec <http://www.bltdirec <http://www.bltdirec <http://www.bltdirect.com/lampColourTemperatures.php> t.com/lampColourTemperatures.php> t.com/lampColourTemperatures.php> t.com/lampColourTemperatures.php>> > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> blogspot.com> blogspot.com> blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> blogspot.com> blogspot.com> blogspot.com> <http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> blogspot.com> blogspot.com> blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> blogspot.com> blogspot.com> blogspot.com>> > > (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the > > right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by > > Year, > Month) > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > [mailto:AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On Behalf Of Amber Berglund > > Sent: Tuesday, November 10, 2009 4:22 PM > > To: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: wisteria/lighting previous > > question/response revisited > > > > Another thing to consider is one light company's 6500 kelvin rating > > may not be identical to another light bulb from a different company > > that's rated the same. The important thing to look at is the color > > chart they show on the boxes, you want more red and blue light for > > your plants, green is not useful or harmful as the plants reflect > > the light back (makes them appear more green but does nothing else > > for them). The kelvin rating is based on our eyes and how they > > perceive color, so each company doesn't have to be identical, > > perhaps some day they will have a universal way to measure light > > spectrums on bulbs that is much less confusing. > > > > Amber > > > > Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > > > > > > OK. So you have a total of 80 watts right now, which is just over > > > 1 WPG, which means you only have enough lighting for low-light, > > > easy to grow plants. See my blog article "Planted Tank: So You > > > Want A Planted Tank" for links to lists of low-light, easy to grow > > > plants that will do OK in your tank. You should replace those tubes at least yearly... > > > although some say every six months. As far as I know, a 40W bulb > > > is the highest wattage made for this type of bulb/fixture right > > > now but you can increase your lighting > > > (lumens) and K (Kelvin) rating. See below. > > > > > > NOTE - below links are for example/informational purposes only, as > > > I know nothing about the sites. God... did I just say that? Do I > > > really have to add disclaimers to my posts now? LOL Just laughing at myself. > > > LOL > > > > > > This may be your Sylvania bulb... > > > http://www.lightbul <http://www.lightbul <http://www.lightbul <http://www.lightbulbemporium.com/proddetail.asp?prod=F40/EX50> bemporium.com/proddetail.asp?prod=F40/EX50> bemporium.com/proddetail.asp?prod=F40/EX50> bemporium.com/proddetail.asp?prod=F40/EX50 > <http://www.lightbul <http://www.lightbul <http://www.lightbul <http://www.lightbulbemporium.com/proddetail.asp?prod=F40/EX50> bemporium.com/proddetail.asp?prod=F40/EX50> bemporium.com/proddetail.asp?prod=F40/EX50> bemporium.com/proddetail.asp?prod=F40/EX50> > > <http://www.lightbul <http://www.lightbul <http://www.lightbul <http://www.lightbulbemporium.com/proddetail.asp?prod=F40/EX50> bemporium.com/proddetail.asp?prod=F40/EX50> bemporium.com/proddetail.asp?prod=F40/EX50> bemporium.com/proddetail.asp?prod=F40/EX50 > <http://www.lightbul <http://www.lightbul <http://www.lightbul <http://www.lightbulbemporium.com/proddetail.asp?prod=F40/EX50> bemporium.com/proddetail.asp?prod=F40/EX50> bemporium.com/proddetail.asp?prod=F40/EX50> bemporium.com/proddetail.asp?prod=F40/EX50>> > > > <http://www.lightbul <http://www.lightbul <http://www.lightbul <http://www.lightbulbemporium.com/proddetail.asp?prod=F40/EX50> bemporium.com/proddetail.asp?prod=F40/EX50> bemporium.com/proddetail.asp?prod=F40/EX50> bemporium.com/proddetail.asp?prod=F40/EX50 > <http://www.lightbul <http://www.lightbul <http://www.lightbul <http://www.lightbulbemporium.com/proddetail.asp?prod=F40/EX50> bemporium.com/proddetail.asp?prod=F40/EX50> bemporium.com/proddetail.asp?prod=F40/EX50> bemporium.com/proddetail.asp?prod=F40/EX50> > > <http://www.lightbul <http://www.lightbul <http://www.lightbul <http://www.lightbulbemporium.com/proddetail.asp?prod=F40/EX50> bemporium.com/proddetail.asp?prod=F40/EX50> bemporium.com/proddetail.asp?prod=F40/EX50> bemporium.com/proddetail.asp?prod=F40/EX50 > <http://www.lightbul <http://www.lightbul <http://www.lightbul <http://www.lightbulbemporium.com/proddetail.asp?prod=F40/EX50> bemporium.com/proddetail.asp?prod=F40/EX50> bemporium.com/proddetail.asp?prod=F40/EX50> bemporium.com/proddetail.asp?prod=F40/EX50>>> and > if > > > it is, then it's the same ratings as the specs in the T-10 bulb > > > that I copy/pasted below, which is a pretty good bulb with higher > > > lumens and the higher K rating, although not a 6500K rated bulb. > > > At the bottom of this page, there was a link to this bulb... > > > > > > http://www.lightbul <http://www.lightbul <http://www.lightbul <http://www.lightbulbemporium.com/maxlite_51204_ml_f40t10_850_rscg.asp> bemporium.com/maxlite_51204_ml_f40t10_850_rscg.asp> bemporium.com/maxlite_51204_ml_f40t10_850_rscg.asp> bemporium.com/maxlite_51204_ml_f40t10_850_rscg.asp > <http://www.lightbul <http://www.lightbul <http://www.lightbul <http://www.lightbulbemporium.com/maxlite_51204_ml_f40t10_850_rscg.asp> bemporium.com/maxlite_51204_ml_f40t10_850_rscg.asp> bemporium.com/maxlite_51204_ml_f40t10_850_rscg.asp> bemporium.com/maxlite_51204_ml_f40t10_850_rscg.asp > > > > > <http://www.lightbul <http://www.lightbul <http://www.lightbul <http://www.lightbulbemporium.com/maxlite_51204_ml_f40t10_850_rscg.asp> bemporium.com/maxlite_51204_ml_f40t10_850_rscg.asp> bemporium.com/maxlite_51204_ml_f40t10_850_rscg.asp> bemporium.com/maxlite_51204_ml_f40t10_850_rscg.asp > <http://www.lightbul <http://www.lightbul <http://www.lightbul <http://www.lightbulbemporium.com/maxlite_51204_ml_f40t10_850_rscg.asp> bemporium.com/maxlite_51204_ml_f40t10_850_rscg.asp> bemporium.com/maxlite_51204_ml_f40t10_850_rscg.asp> bemporium.com/maxlite_51204_ml_f40t10_850_rscg.asp > >> > > > > > > <http://www.lightbul <http://www.lightbul <http://www.lightbul <http://www.lightbulbemporium.com/maxlite_51204_ml_f40t10_850_rscg.asp> bemporium.com/maxlite_51204_ml_f40t10_850_rscg.asp> bemporium.com/maxlite_51204_ml_f40t10_850_rscg.asp> bemporium.com/maxlite_51204_ml_f40t10_850_rscg.asp > <http://www.lightbul <http://www.lightbul <http://www.lightbul <http://www.lightbulbemporium.com/maxlite_51204_ml_f40t10_850_rscg.asp> bemporium.com/maxlite_51204_ml_f40t10_850_rscg.asp> bemporium.com/maxlite_51204_ml_f40t10_850_rscg.asp> bemporium.com/maxlite_51204_ml_f40t10_850_rscg.asp > > > > > <http://www.lightbul <http://www.lightbul <http://www.lightbul <http://www.lightbulbemporium.com/maxlite_51204_ml_f40t10_850_rscg.asp> bemporium.com/maxlite_51204_ml_f40t10_850_rscg.asp> bemporium.com/maxlite_51204_ml_f40t10_850_rscg.asp> bemporium.com/maxlite_51204_ml_f40t10_850_rscg.asp > <http://www.lightbul <http://www.lightbul <http://www.lightbul <http://www.lightbulbemporium.com/maxlite_51204_ml_f40t10_850_rscg.asp> bemporium.com/maxlite_51204_ml_f40t10_850_rscg.asp> bemporium.com/maxlite_51204_ml_f40t10_850_rscg.asp> bemporium.com/maxlite_51204_ml_f40t10_850_rscg.asp > >> > > > > > > > which > > > has an even higher lumen rating of 3700, although not much higher > > > than the 3550 rating but every little bit helps especially since > > > the MaxLite bulb was a lower price than the Sylvania bulb. > > > > > > As you will see on this page > > > > > > http://www.lightbul <http://www.lightbul <http://www.lightbul <http://www.lightbulbsdirect.com/Merchant2/merchant.mvc?page=001/CTGY/F> bsdirect.com/Merchant2/merchant.mvc?page=001/CTGY/F> bsdirect.com/Merchant2/merchant.mvc?page=001/CTGY/F> bsdirect.com/Merchant2/merchant.mvc?page=001/CTGY/F > <http://www.lightbul <http://www.lightbul <http://www.lightbul <http://www.lightbulbsdirect.com/Merchant2/merchant.mvc?page=001/CTGY/> bsdirect.com/Merchant2/merchant.mvc?page=001/CTGY/> bsdirect.com/Merchant2/merchant.mvc?page=001/CTGY/> bsdirect.com/Merchant2/merchant.mvc?page=001/CTGY/ > F> > > > <http://www.lightbul <http://www.lightbul <http://www.lightbul <http://www.lightbulbsdirect.com/Merchant2/merchant.mvc?page=001/CTGY/> bsdirect.com/Merchant2/merchant.mvc?page=001/CTGY/> bsdirect.com/Merchant2/merchant.mvc?page=001/CTGY/> bsdirect.com/Merchant2/merchant.mvc?page=001/CTGY/ > F > <http://www.lightbul <http://www.lightbul <http://www.lightbul <http://www.lightbulbsdirect.com/Merchant2/merchant.mvc?page=001/CTGY/> bsdirect.com/Merchant2/merchant.mvc?page=001/CTGY/> bsdirect.com/Merchant2/merchant.mvc?page=001/CTGY/> bsdirect.com/Merchant2/merchant.mvc?page=001/CTGY/ > F>> > > > S+Fluo > > > > > > <http://www.lightbul <http://www.lightbul <http://www.lightbul <http://www.lightbulbsdirect.com/Merchant2/merchant.mvc?page=001/CTGY/> bsdirect.com/Merchant2/merchant.mvc?page=001/CTGY/> bsdirect.com/Merchant2/merchant.mvc?page=001/CTGY/> bsdirect.com/Merchant2/merchant.mvc?page=001/CTGY/ > <http://www.lightbul <http://www.lightbul <http://www.lightbul <http://www.lightbulbsdirect.com/Merchant2/merchant.mvc?page=001/CTGY/> bsdirect.com/Merchant2/merchant.mvc?page=001/CTGY/> bsdirect.com/Merchant2/merchant.mvc?page=001/CTGY/> bsdirect.com/Merchant2/merchant.mvc?page=001/CTGY/ > > > > > <http://www.lightbul <http://www.lightbul <http://www.lightbul <http://www.lightbulbsdirect.com/Merchant2/merchant.mvc?page=001/CTGY/> bsdirect.com/Merchant2/merchant.mvc?page=001/CTGY/> bsdirect.com/Merchant2/merchant.mvc?page=001/CTGY/> bsdirect.com/Merchant2/merchant.mvc?page=001/CTGY/ > <http://www.lightbul <http://www.lightbul <http://www.lightbul <http://www.lightbulbsdirect.com/Merchant2/merchant.mvc?page=001/CTGY/> bsdirect.com/Merchant2/merchant.mvc?page=001/CTGY/> bsdirect.com/Merchant2/merchant.mvc?page=001/CTGY/> bsdirect.com/Merchant2/merchant.mvc?page=001/CTGY/ > >> > > > FS+Fluo> > > > rescent > > > > > > The second bulb down would be similar to yours, except we do not > > > know the lumen or color spectrum rating on your bulb, unless that > > > link I gave above is actually your bulb and then it would be the > > > same as this one. The specs on it are: > > > > > > T-10 Fluorescent > > > 40 Watts > > > Length: 48" > > > Medium Bi-Pin Base > > > Color: 5000K Temperature > > > Initial Lumens: 3550 > > > CRI: 84 > > > Average Life: 20,000 Hours > > > > > > The Color spectrum of 5000K (Kelvin) is OK but 6500K would be much > > better. > > > The Lumens of 3550 is the actual amount of *light* > > > > > > The next bulb down from that one is a T-12, which will also fit in > > > your fixture but they are bigger diameter bulbs and this one > > > actually puts out less light (lumens). Here are the specs: > > > > > > T-12 Fluorescent > > > 40 Watts > > > Length: 48" > > > Base: Medium Bi-Pin Base > > > Initial Lumens: 2200 > > > Average Life: 20,000 Hours > > > Color Temperature: 5000K > > > CRI: 92 > > > > > > It has the same Color spectrum but only 2200 lumens so the above > > > T-10 bulb has around 50% more lumens (light) coming out of it. > > > > > > Now, if you scroll down to the second from the bottom on the page, > > > you'll see the Verilux Instant-Sun T-12 bulb which has a higher > > > Kelvin rating but it doesn't list the lumens so this needs to be > > > checked out further. While the higher K rating is good, if it goes > > > back down to only 2200 lumens, instead of the 3550 lumens of the > > > first referenced bulb above, then I would probably go with the > > > 3550 lumens, 5000K bulb over the 6280K bulb if the lumens were a LOT less. > > > > > > (START SNIP) > > > Engineered to reproduce all the colors and balance of natural > > > light, VeriluxR full spectrum fluorescent tubes feature Trucolite > > > Phosphor TechnologyT which includes the use of a stable, custom > > > blend of earth phosphors that create bright, balanced full spectrum light. > > > T-12 Fluorescent > > > 40 Watts > > > Length: 48" > > > Color Temperature: 6280K > > > CRI: 94 > > > Medium Bi-Pin Base > > > (END SNIP) > > > > > > So, as you can see, there's a few things to look for when shopping > > > for new replacement bulbs. Look for the 5000K to 6500K bulbs with > > > the higher lumen rating for the dollar and you should be good. > > > Note that a 3550 or 3700 lumen bulb will put out nearly twice as > > > much light as a 2000 lumen bulb so it can be easy to increase your > > > lighting without increasing the wattage. DO NOT try to use HO or > > > VHO bulbs... which look similar but have much higher wattage, well > > > over the 40W bulbs you now have. These other HO and VHO bulbs have > > > different pin arrangements so they will not fit in your fixture > > > anyhow but I just wanted to save you a trip. > > > > > > Last but not least, if you're handy, you could even take the bulbs > > > out of your fixtures and line the insides of your fixtures with > > > nice and crisp and flat aluminum foil (shiny side exposed) which > > > will also help. Using double stick tape and then carefully > > > applying the foil so it does not wrinkle too much will work > > > well... especially if the inside of your fixture is black. A white > > > reflector is good but a mirrored reflector, like that created by > > > the shiny side of foil, is MUCH better than a black reflector. > > > Most black fixtures do at least have white reflector areas. > > > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> blogspot.com> blogspot.com> blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> blogspot.com> blogspot.com> blogspot.com> > > <http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> blogspot.com> blogspot.com> blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> blogspot.com> blogspot.com> blogspot.com>> > > > <http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> blogspot.com> blogspot.com> blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> blogspot.com> blogspot.com> blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> blogspot.com> blogspot.com> blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> blogspot.com> blogspot.com> blogspot.com>>> > > (Links to any articles referenced in > > > above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under > > > Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > From: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > [mailto:AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On Behalf Of > > > erikaandnewton > > > Sent: Tuesday, November 10, 2009 10:17 AM > > > To: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: wisteria/lighting previous > > > question/response revisited > > > > > > << When you say "two strips" do you have two 4' long two-bulb > > > fixtures already or something else?>> > > > > > > i have two 4' single bulb strip lights. > > > > > > >> What kind of lighting do you currently have? Look at the bulbs > > > >> and there should be some kind of writing on one of the ends. > > > >> Give us that info if you cannot decipher it yourself.<< > > > > > > one bulb is a f40 t10 > > > the other one is a sylvania daylight bulb also f40 > > > > > > >> It's probably 21" tall, since a common measurement for a 75G is > > > >> 48"x18"x21" Tall.>> > > > > > > it is 21 inches tall > > > > > > erika wilmington de usa [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] ------------------------------------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. 74/`7.88.><((((:>.74/`7.88.74/`7.8><((((:> 8.74/`7.8. , .74/`7..><((((:> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <:((((><.74/`7.88.74/`7.8<:((((><8.74/`7.8. , .74/`7..<:((((><74/`7.88. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the home page. Or e-mail aquaticlife- <mailto:aquaticlife-digest%40yahoogroups.com> digest@yahoogroups.com to receive the digest, which includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email Or email aquaticlife- <mailto:aquaticlife-nomail%40yahoogroups.com> nomail@yahoogroups.com for the No E-Mail option where you will still be able to read messages on the group and post replies. Or email aquaticlife- <mailto:aquaticlife-normal%40yahoogroups.com> normal@yahoogroups.com to receive individual e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 44442	From: bill 1433	Date: 11/12/2009
Subject: Re: wisteria/lighting previous question/response revisited

Yes Len, But its finding that size tube with more of anything that's the problem. Bill --- On Wed, 11/11/09, Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@...> wrote: > From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@...> > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: wisteria/lighting previous question/response revisited > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Date: Wednesday, November 11, 2009, 5:22 PM > Well, if you only have 17W, then you > could definitely do better with the > 20W, higher lumen, better K rating bulbs that I > mentioned.  Considering the > lumen ratings of fluorescent bulbs I've looked at, your 17W > bulbs might only > have 500-700 lumens where the BEST 20W bulb (below) has > 1075 lumens so you > could possibly increase your lighting by 50% to 100% just > by changing to > that bulb.  At least, with that bulb, you'll be in the > low-light range for > plants on the 20G but the 29G will need some work.  > > Of course, you should find out what the lumens and K > ratings are on the > bulbs you have so you'll know if you are getting a small > jump or a BIG jump > in lighting just by changing your bulbs.  Check your > local WalMart for > bulbs.  My nearby WalMart SuperCenter has a really big > assortment of > fluorescent tubes and they were cheaper than the Home > Depot. > > Something else I'm thinking about for you is going with 18" > light-sticks on > each end of your 29G tank or front or back (back would hide > it best but you > decide your best aesthetics) and you'd have to make a DIY > reflector for it > (white poster board and scotch tape would work) and that > would get more > lighting down to the bottom level plants in the 29G. > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed > on the right > side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives > by Year, Month) > > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] > On > Behalf Of bill 1433 > Sent: Wednesday, November 11, 2009 3:42 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: wisteria/lighting previous > question/response > revisited > > It is what it is type of thing Len.  Site says one > thing but stamped or > printed right on the tube is at 17 watts. > > Bill > > --- On Wed, 11/11/09, Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@...> > wrote: > > > From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@...> > > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: wisteria/lighting > previous > > question/response revisited > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > Date: Wednesday, November 11, 2009, 2:16 PM The > problem might be this > > statement in the description... > > > > "... Hoods include 8000ºK bulb... ...20W, 24"..." > > > > That's getting into the higher green/blue Kelvin > range... > > closer to the > > 10,000K actinic type bulbs... than the 5000K to 6500K > "Daylight" bulbs > > that provide full spectrum lighting.  It's also only > a 20W bulb > > (according to the DFS site, although you stated it was > only 17W so > > double check this) so it's only 1WPG on the 20G and > only 0.69WPG on > > the 29G.  Of course, if the bulb puts out a LOT more > lumens (you would > > have to do more checking up on the bulb to find this), > that would help > > a little but not much.  I think you need at least > 1WPG to have success > > with low-light plants, although floating plants like > Anacharis, > > Hornwort, Duckweed, etc., would be up close to the > light and benefit > > from CO2 from the air and would do OK with your > lighting... but then > > they would also block out the lighting to the rest of > the tank. > > > > I don't see a lot of options, as far as T-8 bulbs are > concerned for > > this size fixture but I see a few different T-12's... > such as... > > > > (My rating is: GOOD - but see BETTER and BEST options > below... at > > least as far as the bulbs on this site are concerned) > > > > http://www.servicelighting.com/Sylvania-22119-F20T12-DSGN50-T12-Straig > > ht-Lin > > ear-Fluorescent-Light-Bulb > > > > Light Output:  880 lumens > > Refers to the literal measure of the light-output of a > particular > > light bulb, measured in the number of lumens. > > > > Energy Used:  20 watts > > "Watts" is the term applied to the amount of energy > required and used > > by a particular light bulb. It is an international > system unit of > > power equal to one joule per second. Contrary to > popular belief, the > > wattage of a bulb does not directly measure the > brightness; the > > "lumens" of a light is what defines the actual light > output. > >  > > Average Lifetime:  9,000 hours > > This refers to an average lifetime rating based on > large quantities in > > test groups. This testing takes into account usage of > 3 hours per > > start for fluorescent lamps and 10 hours per start for > HID lamps. > >  > > Bulb Type:  T12 > > The "Bulb Type" is typically a combination of the > style of bulb as > > well as the width of the bulb. Usually, the first > couple letters will > > indicate the type; "G" would indicate "Globe", "PAR" > would indicate > > "Parabolic Reflector"... The numbers indicate the > diameter of the > > light bulb in eighths of an inch; a "G40" would be a > "Globe" style > > that is "5 inches" in diameter. > > > >  > > Base Type:  Medium Bi-Pin > > The "Base" of a light bulb is the part that either > screws or snaps > > into a receptacle. Base Type terminology may indicate > common > > descriptive words like "Medium" or "Candelabra", or > may even contain > > numeric codes that signify size and variety, like > "E26" or "2GX13". > >  > > Color Temperature:  5,000K > > Correlated Color Temperature (CCT) is a specification > of the color > > appearance of a lamp, relating its color to that of a > reference source > > heated to a particular temperature, measured in > degrees Kelvin (K). It > > generally measures the "warmth" or "coolness" of light > source > > appearance. > > > > CRI:  90 > > CRI refers to the "Color Rendering Index" of a light > bulb. > > CRI measures a > > light source and grades its ability to render the > color of objects > > "correctly," as compared with a reference source with > comparable color > > temperature. 100 is perfect rendering. > >  > > Length:  24 inches > > > > > > (BETTER - slightly higher lumens and higher 6500K > rating) > > > > http://www.servicelighting.com/Westinghouse-36516-F20T12-FS-T12-Straig > > ht-Lin > > ear-Fluorescent-Light-Bulb > > > > Light Output:  900 lumens > > Energy Used:  20 watts > > Average Lifetime:  10,000 hours > > Bulb Type:  T12 > > Base Type:  Medium Bi-Pin > > Color Temperature:  6,500K > > CRI:  90 > > Length:  24 inches > > > > > > > > (BEST, of these three - around 20% higher lumens and > good 6,500K > > rating, although it does have a lower CRI rating.. but > still > > passing) > > > > http://www.servicelighting.com/Sylvania-22083-F20T12-D-T12-Straight-Li > > near-F > > luorescent-Light-Bulb > > > > Light Output:  1,075 lumens > > Energy Used:  20 watts > > Average Lifetime:  9,000 hours > > Bulb Type:  T12 > > Base Type:  Medium Bi-Pin > > Color Temperature:  6,500K > > CRI:  76 > > Length:  24 inches > > > > Compare the above three to what is sold as a > plant/aquarium light by > > the same company, which has a lower lumens, MUCH lower > CRI rating and > > does not list the K rating other than to say "Plant" > which is a > > subjective rating established by the manufacturer. > > > > (WORST) > > > > http://www.servicelighting.com/Westinghouse-36411-F20T12-PL-T12-Straig > > ht-Lin > > ear-Fluorescent-Light-Bulb > > > > Light Output:  700 lumens (over 30% less lighting > than the 1,075 > > lumens bulb > > above) > > Energy Used:  20 watts > > Average Lifetime:  10,000 hours > > Bulb Type:  T12 > > Base Type:  Medium Bi-Pin > > Color:  Plant > > CRI:  61 > > Length:  24 inches > > > > If any of the above have much better lumens than your > current > > lighting... > > and they all have better K ratings, then any of them > would be better > > for you... but you would still be stuck with only 20 > watts but it's > > the LUMENS and K rating that count more than watts.  > You need to find > > out the lumens on your bulb.  Try to find it on the > DFS site and let > > us know. > > > > You should look at the AHSupply.com place for a > retrofit kit so you > > can use CFL's in your current hood.  That would > probably be your least > > expensive option.  I know you don't like electricity > but I'm sure you > > know someone that could do this for you... on the > cheap... or over a > > 6-pack. > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to > any articles > > referenced in above reply are listed on the right > side, alphabetically > > under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] > > On > > Behalf Of bill 1433 > > Sent: Wednesday, November 11, 2009 9:33 AM > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: wisteria/lighting > previous > > question/response > > revisited > > > > Hi \\Steve// > > > > At this point, and also to refresh your mind, and > anyone > > else on the group > > that may have interest.  This all got started with > my > > search for a tube that > > would allow me more light output from an All Glass > Plastic > > hood and light. > > This unit comes with a "color type tube at 17 watts > that is > > only 24 inches > > long.  This is for a 20/29-gallon tank.  I was > > stupid enough to buy two of > > them, one for each tank.  For further inspection > here > > is the light: > > > > http://www.drsfostersmith.com/product/prod_display.cfm?pcatid=13447 > > > > For those that would like to aggravate themselves > further, > > I can also state > > that these hoods are very conducive to growing Black > > Algae! > > > > Summoning up, I should have only purchased an > All-Glass > > cover and then > > probably a double tube light of sufficient wattage to > bring > > me up to the > > recommended 2 or 3 watts per gallon. > > > > Ya live and learn, > > > > Bill > > > > > > --- On Tue, 11/10/09, Steve Szabo <steve@...> > > wrote: > > > > > From: Steve Szabo <steve@...> > > > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: wisteria/lighting > > previous > > > question/response revisited > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > > Date: Tuesday, November 10, 2009, 11:50 PM Bill, > you > > got it right! The > > > T numbers represent the diameter of the bulb in > 1/8" > > increments. A T4 > > > is a bulb 1/2" in diameter,  T5 is 5/8", t8 is > 1" and > > a t12 is 1 1/2". > > > As I recall, the F is the wattage of the bulb. > > > > > > Lumens, not usually stated on the bulb is the > actual > > amount of light > > > coming from the bulb. It really does not have > anything > > to do with > > > watts, though more watts will give you more > lumens, > > but, also the > > > phosphors used in the bulb affect the amount of > lumen > > output. Lumens > > > and lux are often used interchangeably, but they > are > > really different > > > measurements. Lux is the measure of illumination > over > > a given area. It > > > may actually be more important to aquarists > raising > > plants than the > > > lumen output. Lux is what is measured by a light > > meter, for anyone who > > > happens to know what they are--not often seen > with > > today's cameras and > > > photographers. > > > > > > Color temperature is important. Average daylight > > (except may in > > > Amber's area where they have 6 months of > darkness) has > > a color > > > temperature of 5500-6000. > > > An overcast day can have a color temperature of > 6500. > > As mentioned > > > earlier, plants need light in two color > spectrums, > > and, actually they > > > are rather narrow spans of wavelengths they > benefit > > from. > > > > > > I thought I had a bookmark explaining this, but > I > > can't find it > > > quickly (over 400K of bookmarks, and things have > a > > tendency to get > > > lost), however, some judicial Googling will gain > you > > the information. > > > > > > \\Steve// > > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] > > > On > > > Behalf Of bill 1433 > > > Sent: Tuesday, November 10, 2009 10:20 PM > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: wisteria/lighting > > previous > > > question/response revisited > > > > > > Yes, Amber > > >   > > > It was I, looking for the original information > and > > also looked back on > > > \\Steve//'s post at group to try and find. Ray > had > > mentioned all this > > > the other day saying that he thought the posting > came > > from \\Steve//. > > >   > > > I was not successful in my search.  Also, for me > the > > most important > > > part was a link to a chart which showed you > exactly, > > or explained > > > exactly the "T" > > > factor stands for.  For instance, T-4 would be a > tube > > that is a half > > > inch wide, or close to it-----------I think.  > All > > this is my own > > > fault.  In my interest to acquire and learn > about > > lighting,I went > > > through and studied the applied links but being > > ol'bill, I never > > > bookmarked them. > > > Then to further > > > compound the problem, I deleted the original > message > > that it came > > > from.  In hind-sight you could probably chalk > this > > all up to felonious > > > stupidity on my part. > > >   > > > Bill---where its always a good day if I learn > > something new! > > > > > > --- On Tue, 11/10/09, Amber Berglund <arberglund@...> > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > From: Amber Berglund <arberglund@...> > > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: wisteria/lighting > > previous > > > question/response revisited > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > > Date: Tuesday, November 10, 2009, 9:30 PM > > > > > > > > > I believe it was Steve who posted a link about > lumens > > months back when > > > (I think it was maybe Bill asking) about lighting > for > > planted > > > aquariums. > > > Plants require 2 different spectrums of light to > > properly produce > > > either leaves or flowers (red is more for flower > > production and blue > > > is more for growth, but for the best growing you > want > > a mixture of > > > BOTH colors). > > > So in reality you would want a light that appears > more > > brown/reddish > > > in coloring and a blue/white coloring as well, > but > > they now have bulbs > > > that have BOTH spectrums built in (I'm sure they > don't > > work as well as > > > it would to have 2 different bulbs one mostly red > and > > the other mostly > > > blue on the color spectrum). > > > Let me see if I still have the link bookmarked. > > > What I was trying to say is that Kelvin does not > tell > > you what color > > > spectrum the light REALLY is, it's actually > measuring > > it's light > > > output color according to how the human eyes > perceive > > it. So 6500 > > > kelvin in general is what most plants will > prefer > > because that is a > > > mixture of both red and blue spectrums (In MOST > bulbs) > > unfortunately > > > not all light bulb manufactures have to use the > exact > > same chart for > > > their colors, so they will have different colors > than > > another bulb > > > that says it's 6500 Kelvin. what you really need > to > > read is the color > > > chart on the box, not what lumens it says it is. > > > (still searching for link, LOL). > > > > > > This isn't the right link but it discusses the > > kelvin/lumen problems a > > > little bit, still looking for the link that > showed the > > charts and what > > > to look for in the color charts. > > > http://www.americanaquariumproducts.com/Aquarium_Lighting.html > > > > > > Will post again when I find the other link with > chart > > examples. > > > > > > Amber > > > > > > > > > Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > > > > > > > > I think it would be false advertising or > > possibly > > > mis-advertising (if they > > > > do not know any better) if a company lists > their > > bulbs > > > as 6500K and they > > > > aren't. The Kelvin scale, just like Watts > and > > Lumens, > > > are ALL > > > > universal and > > > > scientifically measurable scales BUT, as I > > showed > > > below, not all 40 watt > > > > bulbs put out the same amount of light > (lumens) > > or in > > > the same color > > > > spectrum (Kelvin rating). All 40 watt > bulbs, > > whether > > > incandescent, > > > > fluorescent, CFL, LED, Halogen, etc.... ALL > use > > > only/around 40 watts of > > > > electricity but their light output can vary > > > dramatically. This is why > > > > fluorescent bulbs are so much more > efficient > > than > > > incandescent bulbs and > > > > CFL's are even more efficient... as a 40W > > fluorescent > > > bulb puts out a LOT > > > > more light (lumens) than a 40 watt > incandescent > > bulb > > > and a 40W CFL > > > > puts out > > > > more light (lumens) than a 40W fluorescent > bulb. > > This > > > is why the OLD > > > > "Watts > > > > Per Gallon" rule simply does not work any > more. > > > > > > > > BUT.. if three different companies are > selling > > > standard T-10 fluorescent > > > > bulbs with the same exact rating of 40W, > 3550 > > lumens > > > and 6500K > > > > rating... all > > > > three of those bulbs should be VERY SIMILAR > if > > not > > > identical in the > > > > way they > > > > appear to our eyes (subject to our own > degree of > > color > > > blindness, of > > > > course!) > > > > > > > > In the past, things like "soft white", > "warm > > white", > > > "daylight", "plant > > > > grow", etc., type terms were used and are > still > > used > > > but those are just > > > > simple words (not subject to a scientific > scale) > > to > > > describe the Kelvin > > > > rating ranges but lumens are just as > important > > since a > > > bulb could have a > > > > 6500K rating with only 2200 lumens where > another > > bulb > > > could have a 6500K > > > > rating and 3550 or 3700 lumens and that > bulb > > would put > > > out over 50% more > > > > light (lumens) in the same color spectrum > > (Kelvin > > > rating) so it would be a > > > > much more cost effective bulb if it cost > the > > same > > > amount or only a little > > > > more. > > > > > > > > I'm slightly confused about the "red and > blue > > light > > > for your plants" as > > > > those two colors are on opposite ends of > the > > Kelvin > > > Scale with reds and > > > > ambers in the lower numbers and greens and > blues > > in > > > the higher numbers. I > > > > think this is why you would want a > mid-range > > (5000K to > > > 6500K) bulb as > > > > those > > > > are generally considered "full spectrum" or > > "daylight" > > > bulbs. Here's a > > > > color picture of the Kelvin Scale, > > > > http://www.bltdirect.com/images/colour-temperature.jpg > > > > > > > <http://www.bltdirect.com/images/colour-temperature.jpg> > > > and you can > > > > visually > > > > see that the 5000K to 6500K range is all > about > > the > > > same "color". I think > > > > this is also why Actinic bulbs are usually > higher > > and > > > closer to the 10000K > > > > range and up... apparently, the Kelvin > lighting > > scale > > > can go up to 20,000K > > > > (according to this article about Reef Tanks > > > > > http://nh.craigslist.org/for/1423072406.html > > > > <http://nh.craigslist.org/for/1423072406.html> on, > > of > > > all places, > > > > Craigslist). > > > > Here is the page that that the above photo > link > > came > > > from and it has a > > > > chart > > > > that also explains things a little more also > and > > talks > > > about the CRI, yet > > > > another lighting term (Color Rendition > Index). > > > > http://www.bltdirect.com/lampColourTemperatures.php > > > > <http://www.bltdirect.com/lampColourTemperatures.php> > > > > > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> (Links > > to any articles referenced in > > > > above reply are > > > listed on the right > > > > side, alphabetically under Labels and also > under > > > Archives by Year, Month) > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On > > Behalf Of Amber Berglund > > > > Sent: Tuesday, November 10, 2009 4:22 PM > > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: > wisteria/lighting > > > previous > > > > question/response > > > > revisited > > > > > > > > Another thing to consider is one light > company's > > 6500 > > > kelvin rating > > > > may not > > > > be identical to another light bulb from a > > different > > > company that's > > > > rated the > > > > same. The important thing to look at is the > > color > > > chart they show on the > > > > boxes, you want more red and blue light for > your > > > plants, green is not > > > > useful > > > > or harmful as the plants reflect the light > back > > (makes > > > them appear more > > > > green but does nothing else for them). The > > kelvin > > > rating is based on our > > > > eyes and how they perceive color, so each > > company > > > doesn't have to be > > > > identical, perhaps some day they will have > a > > universal > > > way to measure > > > > light > > > > spectrums on bulbs that is much less > confusing. > > > > > > > > Amber > > > > > > > > Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > > > > > > > > > > OK. So you have a total of 80 watts > right > > now, > > > which is just over 1 > > > > > WPG, which means you only have enough > > lighting > > > for low-light, easy to > > > > > grow plants. See my blog article > "Planted > > Tank: > > > So You Want A Planted > > > > > Tank" for links to lists of low-light, > easy > > to > > > grow plants that will > > > > > do OK in your tank. You should replace > > those > > > tubes at least yearly... > > > > > although some say every six months. As > far > > as I > > > know, a 40W bulb is > > > > > the highest wattage made for this type > of > > > bulb/fixture right now but > > > > > you can increase your lighting > > > > > (lumens) and K (Kelvin) rating. See > below. > > > > > > > > > > NOTE - below links are for > > example/informational > > > purposes only, as I > > > > > know nothing about the sites. God... > did I > > just > > > say that? Do I really > > > > > have to add disclaimers to my posts > now? LOL > > Just > > > laughing at myself. > > > > > LOL > > > > > > > > > > This may be your Sylvania bulb... > > > > > http://www.lightbulbemporium.com/proddetail.asp?prod=F40/EX50 > > > > > > > <http://www.lightbulbemporium.com/proddetail.asp?prod=F40/EX50> > > > > > <http://www.lightbulbemporium.com/proddetail.asp?prod=F40/EX50 > > > > > > > <http://www.lightbulbemporium.com/proddetail.asp?prod=F40/EX50>> > > > and if > > > > > it is, then it's the same ratings as > the > > specs in > > > the T-10 bulb that I > > > > > copy/pasted below, which is a pretty > good > > bulb > > > with higher lumens and > > > > > the higher K rating, although not a > 6500K > > rated > > > bulb. At the bottom of > > > > > this page, there was a link to this > bulb... > > > > > > > > > http://www.lightbulbemporium.com/maxlite_51204_ml_f40t10_850_rscg.as > > > > p > > > > > > > <http://www.lightbulbemporium.com/maxlite_51204_ml_f40t10_850_rscg.a > > > > sp> > > > > > > > > > <http://www.lightbulbemporium.com/maxlite_51204_ml_f40t10_850_rscg.a > > > > sp > > > > > > > <http://www.lightbulbemporium.com/maxlite_51204_ml_f40t10_850_rscg.a > > > > sp> > > > > > > > > > > > which > > > > > has an even higher lumen rating of > 3700, > > although > > > not much higher than > > > > > the 3550 rating but every little bit > helps > > > especially since the > > > > > MaxLite bulb was a lower price than > the > > Sylvania > > > bulb. > > > > > > > > > > As you will see on this page > > > > > > > > > http://www.lightbulbsdirect.com/Merchant2/merchant.mvc?page=001/CTGY > > > > /F > > > > > > > <http://www.lightbulbsdirect.com/Merchant2/merchant.mvc?page=001/CTG > > > > Y/F> > > > > > S+Fluo > > > > > > > > > <http://www.lightbulbsdirect.com/Merchant2/merchant.mvc?page=001/CTG > > > > Y/ > > > > > > > <http://www.lightbulbsdirect.com/Merchant2/merchant.mvc?page=001/CTG > > > > Y/> > > > > > FS+Fluo> > > > > > rescent > > > > > > > > > > The second bulb down would be similar > to > > yours, > > > except we do not know > > > > > the lumen or color spectrum rating on > your > > bulb, > > > unless that link I > > > > > gave above is actually your bulb and > then > > it > > > would be the same as this > > > > > one. The specs on it are: > > > > > > > > > > T-10 Fluorescent > > > > > 40 Watts > > > > > Length: 48" > > > > > Medium Bi-Pin Base > > > > > Color: 5000K Temperature > > > > > Initial Lumens: 3550 > > > > > CRI: 84 > > > > > Average Life: 20,000 Hours > > > > > > > > > > The Color spectrum of 5000K (Kelvin) is > OK > > but > > > 6500K would be much > > > > better. > > > > > The Lumens of 3550 is the actual amount > of > > > *light* > > > > > > > > > > The next bulb down from that one is a > T-12, > > which > > > will also fit in > > > > > your fixture but they are bigger > diameter > > bulbs > > > and this one actually > > > > > puts out less light (lumens). Here are > the > > > specs: > > > > > > > > > > T-12 Fluorescent > > > > > 40 Watts > > > > > Length: 48" > > > > > Base: Medium Bi-Pin Base > > > > > Initial Lumens: 2200 > > > > > Average Life: 20,000 Hours > > > > > Color Temperature: 5000K > > > > > CRI: 92 > > > > > > > > > > It has the same Color spectrum but > only > > 2200 > > > lumens so the above T-10 > > > > > bulb has around 50% more lumens > (light) > > coming > > > out of it. > > > > > > > > > > Now, if you scroll down to the second > from > > the > > > bottom on the page, > > > > > you'll see the Verilux Instant-Sun > T-12 > > bulb > > > which has a higher Kelvin > > > > > rating but it doesn't list the lumens > so > > this > > > needs to be checked out > > > > > further. While the higher K rating is > good, > > if it > > > goes back down to > > > > > only 2200 lumens, instead of the 3550 > lumens > > of > > > the first referenced > > > > > bulb above, then I would probably go > with > > the > > > 3550 lumens, 5000K bulb > > > > > over the 6280K bulb if the lumens were > a > > LOT > > > less. > > > > > > > > > > (START SNIP) > > > > > Engineered to reproduce all the colors > and > > > balance of natural light, > > > > > VeriluxR full spectrum fluorescent > tubes > > feature > > > Trucolite Phosphor > > > > > TechnologyT which includes the use of > a > > stable, > > > custom blend of earth > > > > > phosphors that create bright, balanced > full > > > spectrum light. > > > > > T-12 Fluorescent > > > > > 40 Watts > > > > > Length: 48" > > > > > Color Temperature: 6280K > > > > > CRI: 94 > > > > > Medium Bi-Pin Base > > > > > (END SNIP) > > > > > > > > > > So, as you can see, there's a few > things to > > look > > > for when shopping for > > > > > new replacement bulbs. Look for the > 5000K > > to > > > 6500K bulbs with the > > > > > higher lumen rating for the dollar and > you > > should > > > be good. Note that a > > > > > 3550 or 3700 lumen bulb will put out > nearly > > twice > > > as much light as a > > > > > 2000 lumen bulb so it can be easy to > > increase > > > your lighting without > > > > > increasing the wattage. DO NOT try to > use HO > > or > > > VHO bulbs... which > > > > > look similar but have much higher > wattage, > > well > > > over the 40W bulbs you > > > > > now have. These other HO and VHO bulbs > have > > > different pin arrangements > > > > > so they will not fit in your fixture > anyhow > > but I > > > just wanted to save > > > > > you a trip. > > > > > > > > > > Last but not least, if you're handy, > you > > could > > > even take the bulbs out > > > > > of your fixtures and line the insides > of > > your > > > fixtures with nice and > > > > > crisp and flat aluminum foil (shiny > side > > exposed) > > > which will also > > > > > help. Using double stick tape and then > > carefully > > > applying the foil so > > > > > it does not wrinkle too much will work > > well... > > > especially if the > > > > > inside of your fixture is black. A > white > > > reflector is good but a > > > > > mirrored reflector, like that created > by > > the > > > shiny side of foil, is > > > > > MUCH better than a black reflector. > Most > > black > > > fixtures do at least > > > > > have white reflector areas. > > > > > > > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > > > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>> > > > > (Links to any articles referenced in > > > > > above reply are listed on the right > side, > > > alphabetically under Labels > > > > > and also under Archives by Year, > Month) > > > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On > > > Behalf Of erikaandnewton > > > > > Sent: Tuesday, November 10, 2009 10:17 > AM > > > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: > > wisteria/lighting > > > previous > > > > > question/response revisited > > > > > > > > > > << When you say "two strips" do > you > > have > > > two 4' long two-bulb fixtures > > > > > already or something else?>> > > > > > > > > > > i have two 4' single bulb strip > lights. > > > > > > > > > > >> What kind of lighting do you > > currently > > > have? Look at the bulbs and > > > > > >> there should be some kind of > > writing on > > > one of the ends. Give us > > > > > >> that info if you cannot > decipher > > it > > > yourself.<< > > > > > > > > > > one bulb is a f40 t10 > > > > > the other one is a sylvania daylight > bulb > > also > > > f40 > > > > > > > > > > >> It's probably 21" tall, since > a > > common > > > measurement for a 75G is > > > > > >> 48"x18"x21" Tall.>> > > > > > > > > > > it is 21 inches tall > > > > > > > > > > erika wilmington de usa > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ------------------------------------ > > > > > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it > when > > replying, Thank > > > You. > > > > > > ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> > > > ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , > .·´¯`·..><((((º> > > > PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT > that > > is NOT > > > important to the reply & if CHANGING the > TOPIC of > > the original message > > > MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject > (was > > re: old subject)" <- > > > > > > <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. > > > , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. > > > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this > matter. > > > > > > If you do not want all of the groups emails, > instead > > of unsubscribing, > > > you can change your delivery option by clicking > on > > "Edit My > > > Membership" on the home page. > > > > > > Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com > > > to receive the digest, which includes up to 25 > posts > > at a time in a > > > single email > > > > > > Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com > > > for the No E-Mail option where you will still be > able > > to read messages > > > on the group and post replies. > > > > > > Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com > > > to receive individual e-mails.Yahoo! Groups > Links > > > > > > > > >     AquaticLife-fullfeatured@yahoogroups.com > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >       > > > > > > ------------------------------------ > > > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when > > replying, Thank You. > > > ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> > > ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> > > PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that > is > > NOT important to > > the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original > > message MODIFY the SUBJECT > > LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" > <- > > > <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. > > , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. > > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. > > > > If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead > of > > unsubscribing, you > > can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit > My > > Membership" on the > > home page.  > > > > Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com > > to receive the digest, which > > includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email > > > > Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com > > for the No E-Mail option where > > you will still be able to read messages on the group > and > > post replies. > > > > Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com > > to receive individual > > e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > > > > > > > ------------------------------------ > > > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when > > replying, Thank You. > > > ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> > > ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> > > PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that > is > > NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC > of > > the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> > i.e. "new > > subject (was re: old subject)" <- > > > <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. > > , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. > > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. > > > > If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead > of > > unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by > > clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the home page.  > > > > Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com > > to receive the digest, which includes up to 25 posts > at a > > time in a single email > > > > Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com > > for the No E-Mail option where you will still be able > to > > read messages on the group and post replies. > > > > Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com > > to receive individual e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > >     AquaticLife-fullfeatured@yahoogroups.com > > > > > > > > >       > > > ------------------------------------ > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when > replying, Thank You. > ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> > ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> > PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is > NOT important to > the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original > message MODIFY the SUBJECT > LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- > <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. > , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. > > If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of > unsubscribing, you > can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My > Membership" on the > home page.  > > Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com > to receive the digest, which > includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email > > Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com > for the No E-Mail option where > you will still be able to read messages on the group and > post replies. > > Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com > to receive individual > e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > ------------------------------------ > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when > replying, Thank You. > ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> > ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> > PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is > NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of > the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new > subject (was re: old subject)" <- > <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. > , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. > > If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of > unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by > clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the home page.  > > Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com > to receive the digest, which includes up to 25 posts at a > time in a single email > > Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com > for the No E-Mail option where you will still be able to > read messages on the group and post replies. > > Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com > to receive individual e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links > > >     AquaticLife-fullfeatured@yahoogroups.com > > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 44443	From: bill 1433	Date: 11/12/2009
Subject: Re: Why am I getting these weird messages to this address?

If you mean me, Bill from warrenprint, I am not. All messages from all groups are set up as "traditional" and individual mail. I would suggest running your Virus ware as well as a full system checkdisk to repair. But this entire matter could very well be as suggested, from Yahoo Mail itself. I have received some from time to time also of issue is the sending plain or rich text. Remember a few months ago, everything I sent into group had those funny A's in the messages? Again,Yahoo coding. I now send all in plain text without issue. It might be a "THEM" and not us issue. Bill --- On Thu, 11/12/09, Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@...> wrote: > From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@...> > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Why am I getting these weird messages to this address? > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Date: Thursday, November 12, 2009, 3:50 AM > That looks like Bill is getting his > emails in the HTML enhanced version of > Group mail (rather than the plain text, traditional version > that I choose to > get from Groups) and then when he replies, it looks like he > might be sending > out in plain text so all the HTML stuff is not rendered > into the HTML > formatting... or possibly when you receive it, it's not > rendering.  > > At least that explains most of the stuff below but I'm > surprised to see > header info showing up also. > > If you change your own Group preferences to receive > Traditional instead of > the Enhanced version, it makes for a better *experience*, > with a lot less > junk and smaller email size, IMO.  Yahoo went to the > Enhanced version as a > way of getting HTML advertisements into the body of emails, > in a sidebar, > whereas, with the Traditional version, at most, I'll get a > line or two all > the way down by the footer area, below all the unsubscribe > stuff so I never > see it. > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed > on the right > side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives > by Year, Month) > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] > On > Behalf Of Donna Ransome > Sent: Wednesday, November 11, 2009 9:34 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Why am I getting these weird > messages to this > address? > > Legitimate question.  Here is what it looks > like.  I've gotten maybe half > dozen of these over the last couple days: > > > > (There is more, but hopefully this will give you the > idea.) > > > > > > R6BbIk_TOIW0yRKMSSUqGYEEvYO93d5dwihO4yFSxSajXxdeuvwiy4q1hTkIRm7pzCKU5ps0NvmC > KSGWlkpYYiG4YVrgpGJoSwVL.pB4eb3yRhqaQabTL7mJNYGdnt.dONGY6J3BXXgDcsTS_MP_7APv > hKmdp4DA4n34jY0js4Ly8zY1nWOGZbKybPRssD99x3kUBoqDmR5IqbkSd8- > > X-Received: from [72.70.208.210] by > web45112.mail.sp1.yahoo.com via HTTP; > Wed, 11 Nov 2009 07:38:27 PST > > X-Mailer: YahooMailClassic/8.1.6 > YahooMailWebService/0.7.361.4 > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > In-Reply-To: > <9F5597BD59E74213B3E087F5E376EEEF@LVDESKTOP> > > X-Originating-IP: 68.180.197.148 > > X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 2:4:8:0:2 > > From: bill 1433 <warrenprint@...> > > X-Yahoo-Profile: warrenprint > > Sender: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > MIME-Version: 1.0 > > Mailing-List: list AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com; > contact > AquaticLife-owner@yahoogroups.com > > Delivered-To: mailing list AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > List-Id: <AquaticLife.yahoogroups.com> > > Precedence: bulk > > List-Unsubscribe: < <mailto:AquaticLife-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com> > mailto:AquaticLife-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com> > > Date: Wed, 11 Nov 2009 07:38:27 -0800 (PST) > > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: wisteria/lighting previous > question/response > revisited > > Reply-To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: groups-email-ff-m > > Content-Type: multipart/alternative; > > boundary="w73BVY8hfJ71PIIRpG706SKFxOHorY0hn30bZMq" > > > > --w73BVY8hfJ71PIIRpG706SKFxOHorY0hn30bZMq > > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 > > Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable > > > > I'd like to extend a big "THANK YOU" to=20 > > "Amber Berglund" on group for opening this can of worms! > > > > Thanks Again Amber! > > > > Bill <g>  ya did it again girl! > > > > > > > >   _____  > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] > On > Behalf Of Lenny V. aka GoldLenny > Sent: Wednesday, November 11, 2009 9:16 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Why am I getting these weird > messages to this > address? > > > >   > > Donna, > > Is this your way of saying "Get back on topic boys!" or > were you asking > about the snip of header info that you posted? I can't tell > if you're being > sarcastic towards us about bringing up Bookmarks and > browser stuff... or > asking a legitimate question. LOL > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> blogspot.com > (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed > on the right > side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives > by Year, Month) > > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@ > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > yahoogroups.com > [mailto:AquaticLife@ > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > yahoogroups.com] > On > Behalf Of Donna Ransome > Sent: Wednesday, November 11, 2009 6:54 PM > To: AquaticLife@ > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > yahoogroups.com > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Why am I getting these weird > messages to this > address? > > sentto-8495157- > <mailto:sentto-8495157-44406-1257953244-djransome%3Doptonline.net%40returns. > groups.yahoo> 44406-1257953244-djransome=optonline.net@... > .com > > It seems to be associated with aquatic life. This one > eventually was from > Bill with a bunch of stuff in the header first. > > _____ > > From: AquaticLife@ > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > yahoogroups.com > [mailto:AquaticLife@ > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > yahoogroups.com] > On > Behalf Of Steve Szabo > Sent: Wednesday, November 11, 2009 6:43 AM > To: AquaticLife@ > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > yahoogroups.com > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: wisteria/lighting previous > question/response > revisited > > Lenny, > > I don't need no steenkin' hack. In Firefox, the bookmarks > are kept as they > should be, as one file, not each bookmark in a separate > file gobbling up > disk space as IE does. It also eats up space in the MFT > (Master File Table). > (SNIPPED) > > > > ------------------------------------ > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when > replying, Thank You. > ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> > ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> > PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is > NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of > the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new > subject (was re: old subject)" <- > <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. > , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. > > If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of > unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by > clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the home page.  > > Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com > to receive the digest, which includes up to 25 posts at a > time in a single email > > Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com > for the No E-Mail option where you will still be able to > read messages on the group and post replies. > > Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com > to receive individual e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links > > >     AquaticLife-fullfeatured@yahoogroups.com > > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 44444	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 11/12/2009
Subject: Re: Big Poppa's Algae Issue (was Re: Plants growing black hair - ee

DO NOT use the AlgaeFix product. All it will do is kill off the algae (harm your plants and possibly poison your fish), causing further pollution problems in your tank. As Amber said, something caused an imbalance in your system. Algae thrives when there is too much of one of the three things needed for plants... light, nutrients and CO2. If all three are in balance, the plants should do well and there should not be enough nutrients left over to feed a green water algae bloom but if one gets too far out of whack, then the algae can become a problem. DO NOT do anything drastic at this time, as that will also cause an imbalance and possibly cause even more problems or harm your plants. Slowly and gradually, doing more frequent PWC's, slowly cutting back on the lighting and doing better gravel vacuuming and filter maintenance will slowly get things back to normal. If, after a couple of weeks, things are not back to normal, then a 3-day total blackout has worked for some. As usual, what are your water parameters. Give us some history on them also. What were they before the algae bloom and what are they now, before and after each PWC... and your tap water 48 hour baseline numbers. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Amber Berglund Sent: Wednesday, November 11, 2009 9:08 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: Plants growing black hair - eek. How old is this tank? Did you add anything new? Fertilizers for plants, new lighting, etc? Green water should go away (very very slowly) on it's own, as long as you lower the lighting timeframe and such that you have already done. There is NO quick fix for this. You can do more PWC's but sometimes that can cause more problems than fix the water because it can actually cause the algae to grow faster, rather than get rid of it. Let us know if you have changed anything recently for this to happen. Amber biG poppa wrote: > > Help Help hi guys i have green water i have tried it all move the > lights up 4 inches, water changes all the water paremeters are > fine........my next option is Algeafix by API...I have also lower the > time the lights are on...........Added an air stone and a power > jet..this is my 55g set up its floresent green.......

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 44445	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 11/12/2009
Subject: Re: Why am I getting these weird messages to this address?

OK. It could be Yahoo Related. I'm not sure if you visit the YGroupsBlog.com on a regular basis or not (I get alerts each time a new blog is posted) but they recently had issues with the Daily Digests. Are you getting the Daily Digests or individual emails? Are you getting them in the Traditional version or the Enhanced version? You can check and change things by going to the group, sign in and then click the link to "Edit My Membership" where you can check off Traditional instead of Enhanced. Traditional is less bloated with HTML coding. As I previously stated, I see HTML coding in the junk you are getting so I suspect that either the sender received it in HTML but then sent the reply in plain text and didn't clean up the HTML coding.... or you are getting it in HTML and for some reason, it's not rendering properly. I still do not know why you are seeing the header information. The only time I've seen header info in an actual email body is when someone copy/pasted it so I could see it. Of course, one can always view header info in their own received/sent emails by going thru the process of opening the header but it shouldn't be in the body of the email. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Donna Ransome Sent: Thursday, November 12, 2009 6:02 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Why am I getting these weird messages to this address? A bunch are from Harry. One from yourchardonnay. One from greychildren. A bunch from Bill. So I can't fix it , they have to? It started November 8. _____ From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Lenny V. aka GoldLenny Sent: Thursday, November 12, 2009 3:50 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Why am I getting these weird messages to this address? That looks like Bill is getting his emails in the HTML enhanced version of Group mail (rather than the plain text, traditional version that I choose to get from Groups) and then when he replies, it looks like he might be sending out in plain text so all the HTML stuff is not rendered into the HTML formatting... or possibly when you receive it, it's not rendering. At least that explains most of the stuff below but I'm surprised to see header info showing up also. If you change your own Group preferences to receive Traditional instead of the Enhanced version, it makes for a better *experience*, with a lot less junk and smaller email size, IMO. Yahoo went to the Enhanced version as a way of getting HTML advertisements into the body of emails, in a sidebar, whereas, with the Traditional version, at most, I'll get a line or two all the way down by the footer area, below all the unsubscribe stuff so I never see it. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Donna Ransome Sent: Wednesday, November 11, 2009 9:34 PM To: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Why am I getting these weird messages to this address? Legitimate question. Here is what it looks like. I've gotten maybe half dozen of these over the last couple days: (There is more, but hopefully this will give you the idea.) R6BbIk_TOIW0yRKMSSUqGYEEvYO93d5dwihO4yFSxSajXxdeuvwiy4q1hTkIRm7pzCKU5ps0NvmC KSGWlkpYYiG4YVrgpGJoSwVL.pB4eb3yRhqaQabTL7mJNYGdnt.dONGY6J3BXXgDcsTS_MP_7APv hKmdp4DA4n34jY0js4Ly8zY1nWOGZbKybPRssD99x3kUBoqDmR5IqbkSd8- X-Received: from [72.70.208.210] by web45112.mail.sp1.yahoo.com via HTTP; Wed, 11 Nov 2009 07:38:27 PST X-Mailer: YahooMailClassic/8.1.6 YahooMailWebService/0.7.361.4 To: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com In-Reply-To: <9F5597BD59E74213B3E087F5E376EEEF@LVDESKTOP> X-Originating-IP: 68.180.197.148 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 2:4:8:0:2 From: bill 1433 <warrenprint@ <mailto:warrenprint%40yahoo.com> yahoo.com> X-Yahoo-Profile: warrenprint Sender: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Mailing-List: list AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com; contact AquaticLife- <mailto:AquaticLife-owner%40yahoogroups.com> owner@yahoogroups.com Delivered-To: mailing list AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com List-Id: <AquaticLife.yahoogroups.com> Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: < <mailto:AquaticLife- <mailto:AquaticLife-unsubscribe%40yahoogroups.com> unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com> mailto:AquaticLife- <mailto:AquaticLife-unsubscribe%40yahoogroups.com> unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com> Date: Wed, 11 Nov 2009 07:38:27 -0800 (PST) Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: wisteria/lighting previous question/response revisited Reply-To: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: groups-email-ff-m Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="w73BVY8hfJ71PIIRpG706SKFxOHorY0hn30bZMq" --w73BVY8hfJ71PIIRpG706SKFxOHorY0hn30bZMq Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable I'd like to extend a big "THANK YOU" to=20 "Amber Berglund" on group for opening this can of worms! Thanks Again Amber! Bill <g> ya did it again girl! _____ From: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Lenny V. aka GoldLenny Sent: Wednesday, November 11, 2009 9:16 PM To: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Why am I getting these weird messages to this address? Donna, Is this your way of saying "Get back on topic boys!" or were you asking about the snip of header info that you posted? I can't tell if you're being sarcastic towards us about bringing up Bookmarks and browser stuff... or asking a legitimate question. LOL Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> blogspot.com> blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Donna Ransome Sent: Wednesday, November 11, 2009 6:54 PM To: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Why am I getting these weird messages to this address? sentto-8495157- <mailto:sentto-8495157-44406-1257953244-djransome%3Doptonline.net%40returns. groups.yahoo> 44406-1257953244- <mailto:44406-1257953244-djransome%3Doptonline.net%40returns.groups.yahoo> djransome=optonline.net@... .com It seems to be associated with aquatic life. This one eventually was from Bill with a bunch of stuff in the header first. _____ From: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Steve Szabo Sent: Wednesday, November 11, 2009 6:43 AM To: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: wisteria/lighting previous question/response revisited Lenny, I don't need no steenkin' hack. In Firefox, the bookmarks are kept as they should be, as one file, not each bookmark in a separate file gobbling up disk space as IE does. It also eats up space in the MFT (Master File Table). (SNIPPED) [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] ------------------------------------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. 74/`7.88.><((((:>.74/`7.88.74/`7.8><((((:> 8.74/`7.8. , .74/`7..><((((:> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <:((((><.74/`7.88.74/`7.8<:((((><8.74/`7.8. , .74/`7..<:((((><74/`7.88. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the home page. Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com to receive the digest, which includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com for the No E-Mail option where you will still be able to read messages on the group and post replies. Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com to receive individual e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 44446	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 11/12/2009
Subject: Re: Why am I getting these weird messages to this address?

Oops.. I should have read more replies before I sent my previous reply. Since you are getting plain text on your email client (is it Outlook, Outlook Express or other???), NEXT, check to see if you have your Yahoo Group's setting for AquaticLife set to receive Traditional or Enhanced versions. Yahoo did make recent changes to the way the Enhanced mail is formatted so it could be due to this. Go to the http://www.YGroupsBlog.com and read the most recent posts and you will see the changes. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Donna Ransome Sent: Thursday, November 12, 2009 6:42 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Why am I getting these weird messages to this address? Plain text. _____ From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Steve Szabo Sent: Thursday, November 12, 2009 7:10 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Why am I getting these weird messages to this address? It would be interesting to see whose messages are doing this for you. I am not seeing any of this, but I do have my settings for plain text on the Yahoo! lists I belong to, and I have not seen it. Are you receiving plain text only, or do you receive the HTML versions of the messages? \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Donna Ransome Sent: Thursday, November 12, 2009 6:56 AM To: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Why am I getting these weird messages to this address? Just certain ones from this list. Should I look at who the senders have been? _____ From: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Steve Szabo Sent: Wednesday, November 11, 2009 10:40 PM To: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Why am I getting these weird messages to this address? Donna, I'd venture that something is munging the messages along the way from Yahoo! to you. Unless this is happening to others here, it probably is not a Yahoo! problem, but occurring at a point closer to you. Do all your messages come in this way? If not is it happening to just Yahoo! messages, or is it just those from this list? \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Donna Ransome Sent: Wednesday, November 11, 2009 7:54 PM To: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Why am I getting these weird messages to this address? sentto-8495157- <mailto:sentto-8495157-44406-1257953244-djransome%3Doptonline.net%40returns. groups.yahoo> 44406-1257953244- <mailto:44406-1257953244-djransome%3Doptonline.net%40returns.groups.yahoo> djransome=optonline.net@... .com It seems to be associated with aquatic life. This one eventually was from Bill with a bunch of stuff in the header first. _____ From: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Steve Szabo Sent: Wednesday, November 11, 2009 6:43 AM To: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: wisteria/lighting previous question/response revisited Lenny, I don't need no steenkin' hack. In Firefox, the bookmarks are kept as they should be, as one file, not each bookmark in a separate file gobbling up disk space as IE does. It also eats up space in the MFT (Master File Table). For those who do not know about such things, when a drive is formatted to hold data, it is broken up into groups of sectors, known as clusters, the value of which defaults, in Windows, to 4K (4096 bytes). They can be any value from 512 bytes to at least 32K (it may be even larger now, with NTFS (new technology file system, but 32K was the limit under 16 bit DOS). When a file is written to disk, using 4K cluster size for the example, it takes up as many clusters as needed. So, a file that is 32K in size would use 8 clusters (4K x 8). A file that is 28K would use 7 clusters (28 k/4K=7). However, a file that is 29K would use 8 clusters. It would fill the 7 clusters, with an extra 1024 bytes, which are placed in the next, or 8th cluster, leaving 3K of that cluster as being unavailable to another file. Consider now, that each bookmark is generally less than 1K (1024 bytes). When you are using IE (Internet Explorer), that means that you are wasting 3K of each available cluster to store the bookmark as a file. Let us assume you have 400 bookmarks. I am sure you can do the math. That would mean that you have 400 files, each taking up 4K of disk space, meaning that you are using 1600K to store those files. This means that 400 entries are placed in the MFT. In the case of Firefox, and other browsers not based on IE, all the bookmarks are stored in a file. Say that you have the same 400 bookmarks, using 1K as the size of each bookmark, on average, that would mean that you have a file that is 400K in size, which (conveniently, it seems) works out to a 100K file, stored in 25 clusters and 1 entry in the MFT. A great savings in disk space. There are other issues to consider here as well, but I am sure you are plenty bored by know. However, (oh no!, he's going to say more even though he said he was done) please keep in mind that drive manufacturers use a decimal system to calculate drive sizes, so that 250GB drive you have in your box is not 250GB to the computer, which uses a binary system to calculate drive size. That is why, when you look at the drive size through your operating system, the drive appears to be smaller than advertised. It's kind of like that 55 gallon tank that actually holds less than 55 gallons. Tank measurements are measuring the outside dimensions of the tank not the inside dimensions, plus, none of use fills a tank right to the top of the tank, giving us an actual capacity of somewhat less than 55 gallons, and that is before we add substrate and decorations, fish, and plants to the tank, each displacing a certain amount of water. (You may insert your own Archimedes joke here.) (Notice how I actually brought this back onto an aquarium topic?) \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Lenny V. aka GoldLenny Sent: Wednesday, November 11, 2009 1:30 AM To: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: wisteria/lighting previous question/response revisited Yeah... I keep kind of hoping that Google will eventually provide an online "Bookmarks/Favorites" service or homepage add-in, which would also include a search feature and maybe even a way to scan for bad links in the Bookmarks/Favorites instead of finding out when you go to use that long kept bookmark/favorite and the site no longer exists... of course, there's always the Wayback Machine at the Internet Archive http://www.archive. <http://www.archive. <http://www.archive. <http://www.archive.org> org> org> org to find websites/pages that have disappeared from the net. I regularly go into my IE Favorites and use the "Organize Favorites" feature to move things around but also will use Windows Explorer, C:\Documents and Settings\Owner\Favorites\, to look at my Favorites folder and drag and drop, move and rename things around in there. Then, there is this Registry hack to mass sort the Favorites folder, sub-folders and files, instead of having to "Sort By Name" inside each folder. From http://www.theelder <http://www.theelder <http://www.theelder <http://www.theeldergeek.com/sort_favorites_menu_alphabetical.htm> geek.com/sort_favorites_menu_alphabetical.htm> geek.com/sort_favorites_menu_alphabetical.htm> geek.com/sort_favorites_menu_alphabetical.htm (with some added instructions by me to clarify some things). Sort Favorites Menu Alphabetically [Start] [Run] [Regedit] Registry Key: HKEY_CURRENT_USER\Software\Microsoft\Windows\CurrentVersion\Explorer\MenuOrd er\Favorites (Click on Favorites to highlight, then in the view panel) Right click the Favorites key *Order* and click Delete Exit registry and reboot. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> blogspot.com> blogspot.com> blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Steve Szabo Sent: Tuesday, November 10, 2009 11:43 PM To: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: wisteria/lighting previous question/response revisited Lenny, I have a couple of problems. First, I do have a lot of folders and sub folders for things, and try to use them. However, I can also be pressed for time, and just bookmark it, thinking I'll fix it later. Somehow, later comes even later than one would expect, and when it does arrive, I do a bunch, but never finish going through the list. The other problem is that what made sense at the time, may not make sense when I am looking for the bookmark, possible because I a thinking about the topic in a different way than when I bookmarked the site. It is kind of like how one searches the web. If your first key words do not provide what you are looking for, you modify those terms and search again. Same topic, a bit different way of looking at it. Eventually, you will get what you want. What I probably need is a bookmark search engine. For those of you who were born and weaned with Windows, bookmarks is the correct term, not Microsoft's Favorites, though, I must admit, it is possible to have favorite bookmarks. \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Lenny V. aka GoldLenny Sent: Tuesday, November 10, 2009 11:57 PM To: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: wisteria/lighting previous question/response revisited Bookmarks and Favorites are filing systems... if you don't know how/where it's filed, you won't find it anyhow. I have an extensive Favorites folder with dozens of primary folders and then dozens if not hundreds of sub-folders and sub-sub-folders, for example, under Favorites, I have 59 primary folders and one of them is called Aquarium Sites, then, in that folder, I have 44 alphabetized sub-folders just in that folder, from Additives and Algae to Tutorials-Quizzes and UGF Filters (no V,W,X,Y,Z sub-folders under Aquarium... not sure why not). Then in the Algae folder, I have 7 sub-sub-folders dealing with topics such as Algae Eaters, Allelopathic Control, Diatoms-Brown Algae, Hair Algae, Hydrogen Peroxide, Pond Algae, SeaChem Flourish Excel For Treating Algae and then 11 other favorites about Algae in general, for a total of 48 links, just about Algae. My Favorites folder, when looking at its Properties, is 1.41MB in size and consists of 2,057 files (links) and 306 folders (incl. sub and sub-sub folders) in totality. Many years of surfing and saving and starting off with an organizational plan from the start makes it easy for me to navigate and find things easily. My Favorites is like a mini-Google. ;-) I have been toying around with the idea of using a web resource to keep my Favorites folder online so I can sync it with all of my computers and/or just use it as an online Favorites folder that I can log into from any computer. For now, I use LogMeIn (Free) to connect to my main computer from my laptop when I'm out in the streets playing... oops.. I meant working. But I don't think I'd share my Favorites or then I'd have to go in and edit out all my favorite porn links... well, maybe not for Bill. LOL Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> blogspot.com> blogspot.com> blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Amber Berglund Sent: Tuesday, November 10, 2009 10:25 PM To: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: wisteria/lighting previous question/response revisited No worries Bill, I do the same thing, maybe Lenny will be so kind as to send us all his bookmarks? LOL Amber bill 1433 wrote: > > Yes, Amber > > It was I, looking for the original information and also looked back on > \\Steve//'s post at group to try and find. Ray had mentioned all this > the other day saying that he thought the posting came from \\Steve//. > > I was not successful in my search. Also, for me the most important > part was a link to a chart which showed you exactly, or explained > exactly the "T" factor stands for. For instance, T-4 would be a tube > that is a half inch wide, or close to it-----------I think. All this > is my own fault. In my interest to acquire and learn about lighting,I > went through and studied the applied links but being ol'bill, I never > bookmarked them. Then to further compound the problem, I deleted the > original message that it came from. In hind-sight you could probably > chalk this all up to felonious stupidity on my part. > > Bill---where its always a good day if I learn something new! > > --- On Tue, 11/10/09, Amber Berglund <arberglund@gmail. <mailto:arberglund%40gmail.com> com > <mailto:arberglund%40gmail.com>> wrote: > > From: Amber Berglund <arberglund@gmail. > <mailto:arberglund%40gmail.com> com > <mailto:arberglund%40gmail.com>> > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: wisteria/lighting previous > question/response revisited > To: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Date: Tuesday, November 10, 2009, 9:30 PM > > I believe it was Steve who posted a link about lumens months back when > (I think it was maybe Bill asking) about lighting for planted aquariums. > Plants require 2 different spectrums of light to properly produce > either leaves or flowers (red is more for flower production and blue > is more for growth, but for the best growing you want a mixture of > BOTH colors). > So in reality you would want a light that appears more brown/reddish > in coloring and a blue/white coloring as well, but they now have bulbs > that have BOTH spectrums built in (I'm sure they don't work as well as > it would to have 2 different bulbs one mostly red and the other mostly > blue on the color spectrum). > Let me see if I still have the link bookmarked. > What I was trying to say is that Kelvin does not tell you what color > spectrum the light REALLY is, it's actually measuring it's light > output color according to how the human eyes perceive it. So 6500 > kelvin in general is what most plants will prefer because that is a > mixture of both red and blue spectrums (In MOST bulbs) unfortunately > not all light bulb manufactures have to use the exact same chart for > their colors, so they will have different colors than another bulb > that says it's 6500 Kelvin. what you really need to read is the color > chart on the box, not what lumens it says it is. > (still searching for link, LOL). > > This isn't the right link but it discusses the kelvin/lumen problems a > little bit, still looking for the link that showed the charts and what > to look for in the color charts. > http://www.american <http://www.american <http://www.american <http://www.americanaquariumproducts.com/Aquarium_Lighting.html> aquariumproducts.com/Aquarium_Lighting.html> aquariumproducts.com/Aquarium_Lighting.html> aquariumproducts.com/Aquarium_Lighting.html > <http://www.american <http://www.american <http://www.american <http://www.americanaquariumproducts.com/Aquarium_Lighting.html> aquariumproducts.com/Aquarium_Lighting.html> aquariumproducts.com/Aquarium_Lighting.html> aquariumproducts.com/Aquarium_Lighting.html> > > Will post again when I find the other link with chart examples. > > Amber > > Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > > > > I think it would be false advertising or possibly mis-advertising > (if they > > do not know any better) if a company lists their bulbs as 6500K and > > they aren't. The Kelvin scale, just like Watts and Lumens, are ALL > > universal and scientifically measurable scales BUT, as I showed > > below, not all 40 watt bulbs put out the same amount of light > > (lumens) or in the same color spectrum (Kelvin rating). All 40 watt > > bulbs, whether incandescent, fluorescent, CFL, LED, Halogen, etc.... > > ALL use only/around 40 watts of electricity but their light output > > can vary dramatically. This is why fluorescent bulbs are so much > > more efficient than incandescent bulbs and CFL's are even more > > efficient... as a 40W fluorescent bulb puts out > a LOT > > more light (lumens) than a 40 watt incandescent bulb and a 40W CFL > > puts out more light (lumens) than a 40W fluorescent bulb. This is > > why the OLD "Watts Per Gallon" rule simply does not work any more. > > > > BUT.. if three different companies are selling standard T-10 > > fluorescent bulbs with the same exact rating of 40W, 3550 lumens and > > 6500K rating... all three of those bulbs should be VERY SIMILAR if > > not identical in the way they appear to our eyes (subject to our own > > degree of color blindness, of > > course!) > > > > In the past, things like "soft white", "warm white", "daylight", > > "plant grow", etc., type terms were used and are still used but > > those are just simple words (not subject to a scientific scale) to > > describe the Kelvin rating ranges but lumens are just as important > > since a bulb could have a 6500K rating with only 2200 lumens where > > another bulb could have a 6500K rating and 3550 or 3700 lumens and > > that bulb would put out over 50% more light (lumens) in the same > > color spectrum (Kelvin rating) so it > would be a > > much more cost effective bulb if it cost the same amount or only a > little > > more. > > > > I'm slightly confused about the "red and blue light for your plants" > > as those two colors are on opposite ends of the Kelvin Scale with > > reds and ambers in the lower numbers and greens and blues in the > > higher > numbers. I > > think this is why you would want a mid-range (5000K to 6500K) bulb > > as those are generally considered "full spectrum" or "daylight" > > bulbs. Here's a color picture of the Kelvin Scale, > > http://www.bltdirec <http://www.bltdirec <http://www.bltdirec <http://www.bltdirect.com/images/colour-temperature.jpg> t.com/images/colour-temperature.jpg> t.com/images/colour-temperature.jpg> t.com/images/colour-temperature.jpg > <http://www.bltdirec <http://www.bltdirec <http://www.bltdirec <http://www.bltdirect.com/images/colour-temperature.jpg> t.com/images/colour-temperature.jpg> t.com/images/colour-temperature.jpg> t.com/images/colour-temperature.jpg> > > <http://www.bltdirec <http://www.bltdirec <http://www.bltdirec <http://www.bltdirect.com/images/colour-temperature.jpg> t.com/images/colour-temperature.jpg> t.com/images/colour-temperature.jpg> t.com/images/colour-temperature.jpg > <http://www.bltdirec <http://www.bltdirec <http://www.bltdirec <http://www.bltdirect.com/images/colour-temperature.jpg> t.com/images/colour-temperature.jpg> t.com/images/colour-temperature.jpg> t.com/images/colour-temperature.jpg>> and you can > > visually > > see that the 5000K to 6500K range is all about the same "color". I > > think this is also why Actinic bulbs are usually higher and closer > > to the > 10000K > > range and up... apparently, the Kelvin lighting scale can go up to > 20,000K > > (according to this article about Reef Tanks http://nh.craigslis > > <http://nh.craigslis <http://nh.craigslis <http://nh.craigslist.org/for/1423072406.html> t.org/for/1423072406.html> t.org/for/1423072406.html> t.org/for/1423072406.html > <http://nh.craigslis <http://nh.craigslis <http://nh.craigslis <http://nh.craigslist.org/for/1423072406.html> t.org/for/1423072406.html> t.org/for/1423072406.html> t.org/for/1423072406.html> > > <http://nh.craigslis <http://nh.craigslis <http://nh.craigslis <http://nh.craigslist.org/for/1423072406.html> t.org/for/1423072406.html> t.org/for/1423072406.html> t.org/for/1423072406.html > <http://nh.craigslis <http://nh.craigslis <http://nh.craigslis <http://nh.craigslist.org/for/1423072406.html> t.org/for/1423072406.html> t.org/for/1423072406.html> t.org/for/1423072406.html>> on, of all places, > > Craigslist). > > Here is the page that that the above photo link came from and it has > > a chart that also explains things a little more also and talks about > > the > CRI, yet > > another lighting term (Color Rendition Index). > > http://www.bltdirec <http://www.bltdirec <http://www.bltdirec <http://www.bltdirect.com/lampColourTemperatures.php> t.com/lampColourTemperatures.php> t.com/lampColourTemperatures.php> t.com/lampColourTemperatures.php > <http://www.bltdirec <http://www.bltdirec <http://www.bltdirec <http://www.bltdirect.com/lampColourTemperatures.php> t.com/lampColourTemperatures.php> t.com/lampColourTemperatures.php> t.com/lampColourTemperatures.php> > > <http://www.bltdirec <http://www.bltdirec <http://www.bltdirec <http://www.bltdirect.com/lampColourTemperatures.php> t.com/lampColourTemperatures.php> t.com/lampColourTemperatures.php> t.com/lampColourTemperatures.php > <http://www.bltdirec <http://www.bltdirec <http://www.bltdirec <http://www.bltdirect.com/lampColourTemperatures.php> t.com/lampColourTemperatures.php> t.com/lampColourTemperatures.php> t.com/lampColourTemperatures.php>> > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> blogspot.com> blogspot.com> blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> blogspot.com> blogspot.com> blogspot.com> <http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> blogspot.com> blogspot.com> blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> blogspot.com> blogspot.com> blogspot.com>> > > (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the > > right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by > > Year, > Month) > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > [mailto:AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On Behalf Of Amber Berglund > > Sent: Tuesday, November 10, 2009 4:22 PM > > To: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: wisteria/lighting previous > > question/response revisited > > > > Another thing to consider is one light company's 6500 kelvin rating > > may not be identical to another light bulb from a different company > > that's rated the same. The important thing to look at is the color > > chart they show on the boxes, you want more red and blue light for > > your plants, green is not useful or harmful as the plants reflect > > the light back (makes them appear more green but does nothing else > > for them). The kelvin rating is based on our eyes and how they > > perceive color, so each company doesn't have to be identical, > > perhaps some day they will have a universal way to measure light > > spectrums on bulbs that is much less confusing. > > > > Amber > > > > Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > > > > > > OK. So you have a total of 80 watts right now, which is just over > > > 1 WPG, which means you only have enough lighting for low-light, > > > easy to grow plants. See my blog article "Planted Tank: So You > > > Want A Planted Tank" for links to lists of low-light, easy to grow > > > plants that will do OK in your tank. You should replace those > > > tubes at least yearly... > > > although some say every six months. As far as I know, a 40W bulb > > > is the highest wattage made for this type of bulb/fixture right > > > now but you can increase your lighting > > > (lumens) and K (Kelvin) rating. See below. > > > > > > NOTE - below links are for example/informational purposes only, as > > > I know nothing about the sites. God... did I just say that? Do I > > > really have to add disclaimers to my posts now? LOL Just laughing > > > at myself. > > > LOL > > > > > > This may be your Sylvania bulb... > > > http://www.lightbul <http://www.lightbul <http://www.lightbul <http://www.lightbulbemporium.com/proddetail.asp?prod=F40/EX50> bemporium.com/proddetail.asp?prod=F40/EX50> bemporium.com/proddetail.asp?prod=F40/EX50> bemporium.com/proddetail.asp?prod=F40/EX50 > <http://www.lightbul <http://www.lightbul <http://www.lightbul <http://www.lightbulbemporium.com/proddetail.asp?prod=F40/EX50> bemporium.com/proddetail.asp?prod=F40/EX50> bemporium.com/proddetail.asp?prod=F40/EX50> bemporium.com/proddetail.asp?prod=F40/EX50> > > <http://www.lightbul <http://www.lightbul <http://www.lightbul <http://www.lightbulbemporium.com/proddetail.asp?prod=F40/EX50> bemporium.com/proddetail.asp?prod=F40/EX50> bemporium.com/proddetail.asp?prod=F40/EX50> bemporium.com/proddetail.asp?prod=F40/EX50 > <http://www.lightbul <http://www.lightbul <http://www.lightbul <http://www.lightbulbemporium.com/proddetail.asp?prod=F40/EX50> bemporium.com/proddetail.asp?prod=F40/EX50> bemporium.com/proddetail.asp?prod=F40/EX50> bemporium.com/proddetail.asp?prod=F40/EX50>> > > > <http://www.lightbul <http://www.lightbul <http://www.lightbul <http://www.lightbulbemporium.com/proddetail.asp?prod=F40/EX50> bemporium.com/proddetail.asp?prod=F40/EX50> bemporium.com/proddetail.asp?prod=F40/EX50> bemporium.com/proddetail.asp?prod=F40/EX50 > <http://www.lightbul <http://www.lightbul <http://www.lightbul <http://www.lightbulbemporium.com/proddetail.asp?prod=F40/EX50> bemporium.com/proddetail.asp?prod=F40/EX50> bemporium.com/proddetail.asp?prod=F40/EX50> bemporium.com/proddetail.asp?prod=F40/EX50> > > <http://www.lightbul <http://www.lightbul <http://www.lightbul <http://www.lightbulbemporium.com/proddetail.asp?prod=F40/EX50> bemporium.com/proddetail.asp?prod=F40/EX50> bemporium.com/proddetail.asp?prod=F40/EX50> bemporium.com/proddetail.asp?prod=F40/EX50 > <http://www.lightbul <http://www.lightbul <http://www.lightbul <http://www.lightbulbemporium.com/proddetail.asp?prod=F40/EX50> bemporium.com/proddetail.asp?prod=F40/EX50> bemporium.com/proddetail.asp?prod=F40/EX50> bemporium.com/proddetail.asp?prod=F40/EX50>>> and > if > > > it is, then it's the same ratings as the specs in the T-10 bulb > > > that I copy/pasted below, which is a pretty good bulb with higher > > > lumens and the higher K rating, although not a 6500K rated bulb. > > > At the bottom of this page, there was a link to this bulb... > > > > > > http://www.lightbul <http://www.lightbul <http://www.lightbul <http://www.lightbulbemporium.com/maxlite_51204_ml_f40t10_850_rscg.asp> bemporium.com/maxlite_51204_ml_f40t10_850_rscg.asp> bemporium.com/maxlite_51204_ml_f40t10_850_rscg.asp> bemporium.com/maxlite_51204_ml_f40t10_850_rscg.asp > <http://www.lightbul <http://www.lightbul <http://www.lightbul <http://www.lightbulbemporium.com/maxlite_51204_ml_f40t10_850_rscg.asp> bemporium.com/maxlite_51204_ml_f40t10_850_rscg.asp> bemporium.com/maxlite_51204_ml_f40t10_850_rscg.asp> bemporium.com/maxlite_51204_ml_f40t10_850_rscg.asp > > > > > <http://www.lightbul <http://www.lightbul <http://www.lightbul <http://www.lightbulbemporium.com/maxlite_51204_ml_f40t10_850_rscg.asp> bemporium.com/maxlite_51204_ml_f40t10_850_rscg.asp> bemporium.com/maxlite_51204_ml_f40t10_850_rscg.asp> bemporium.com/maxlite_51204_ml_f40t10_850_rscg.asp > <http://www.lightbul <http://www.lightbul <http://www.lightbul <http://www.lightbulbemporium.com/maxlite_51204_ml_f40t10_850_rscg.asp> bemporium.com/maxlite_51204_ml_f40t10_850_rscg.asp> bemporium.com/maxlite_51204_ml_f40t10_850_rscg.asp> bemporium.com/maxlite_51204_ml_f40t10_850_rscg.asp > >> > > > > > > <http://www.lightbul <http://www.lightbul <http://www.lightbul <http://www.lightbulbemporium.com/maxlite_51204_ml_f40t10_850_rscg.asp> bemporium.com/maxlite_51204_ml_f40t10_850_rscg.asp> bemporium.com/maxlite_51204_ml_f40t10_850_rscg.asp> bemporium.com/maxlite_51204_ml_f40t10_850_rscg.asp > <http://www.lightbul <http://www.lightbul <http://www.lightbul <http://www.lightbulbemporium.com/maxlite_51204_ml_f40t10_850_rscg.asp> bemporium.com/maxlite_51204_ml_f40t10_850_rscg.asp> bemporium.com/maxlite_51204_ml_f40t10_850_rscg.asp> bemporium.com/maxlite_51204_ml_f40t10_850_rscg.asp > > > > > <http://www.lightbul <http://www.lightbul <http://www.lightbul <http://www.lightbulbemporium.com/maxlite_51204_ml_f40t10_850_rscg.asp> bemporium.com/maxlite_51204_ml_f40t10_850_rscg.asp> bemporium.com/maxlite_51204_ml_f40t10_850_rscg.asp> bemporium.com/maxlite_51204_ml_f40t10_850_rscg.asp > <http://www.lightbul <http://www.lightbul <http://www.lightbul <http://www.lightbulbemporium.com/maxlite_51204_ml_f40t10_850_rscg.asp> bemporium.com/maxlite_51204_ml_f40t10_850_rscg.asp> bemporium.com/maxlite_51204_ml_f40t10_850_rscg.asp> bemporium.com/maxlite_51204_ml_f40t10_850_rscg.asp > >> > > > > > > > which > > > has an even higher lumen rating of 3700, although not much higher > > > than the 3550 rating but every little bit helps especially since > > > the MaxLite bulb was a lower price than the Sylvania bulb. > > > > > > As you will see on this page > > > > > > http://www.lightbul <http://www.lightbul <http://www.lightbul <http://www.lightbulbsdirect.com/Merchant2/merchant.mvc?page=001/CTGY/F> bsdirect.com/Merchant2/merchant.mvc?page=001/CTGY/F> bsdirect.com/Merchant2/merchant.mvc?page=001/CTGY/F> bsdirect.com/Merchant2/merchant.mvc?page=001/CTGY/F > <http://www.lightbul <http://www.lightbul <http://www.lightbul <http://www.lightbulbsdirect.com/Merchant2/merchant.mvc?page=001/CTGY/> bsdirect.com/Merchant2/merchant.mvc?page=001/CTGY/> bsdirect.com/Merchant2/merchant.mvc?page=001/CTGY/> bsdirect.com/Merchant2/merchant.mvc?page=001/CTGY/ > F> > > > <http://www.lightbul <http://www.lightbul <http://www.lightbul <http://www.lightbulbsdirect.com/Merchant2/merchant.mvc?page=001/CTGY/> bsdirect.com/Merchant2/merchant.mvc?page=001/CTGY/> bsdirect.com/Merchant2/merchant.mvc?page=001/CTGY/> bsdirect.com/Merchant2/merchant.mvc?page=001/CTGY/ > F > <http://www.lightbul <http://www.lightbul <http://www.lightbul <http://www.lightbulbsdirect.com/Merchant2/merchant.mvc?page=001/CTGY/> bsdirect.com/Merchant2/merchant.mvc?page=001/CTGY/> bsdirect.com/Merchant2/merchant.mvc?page=001/CTGY/> bsdirect.com/Merchant2/merchant.mvc?page=001/CTGY/ > F>> > > > S+Fluo > > > > > > <http://www.lightbul <http://www.lightbul <http://www.lightbul <http://www.lightbulbsdirect.com/Merchant2/merchant.mvc?page=001/CTGY/> bsdirect.com/Merchant2/merchant.mvc?page=001/CTGY/> bsdirect.com/Merchant2/merchant.mvc?page=001/CTGY/> bsdirect.com/Merchant2/merchant.mvc?page=001/CTGY/ > <http://www.lightbul <http://www.lightbul <http://www.lightbul <http://www.lightbulbsdirect.com/Merchant2/merchant.mvc?page=001/CTGY/> bsdirect.com/Merchant2/merchant.mvc?page=001/CTGY/> bsdirect.com/Merchant2/merchant.mvc?page=001/CTGY/> bsdirect.com/Merchant2/merchant.mvc?page=001/CTGY/ > > > > > <http://www.lightbul <http://www.lightbul <http://www.lightbul <http://www.lightbulbsdirect.com/Merchant2/merchant.mvc?page=001/CTGY/> bsdirect.com/Merchant2/merchant.mvc?page=001/CTGY/> bsdirect.com/Merchant2/merchant.mvc?page=001/CTGY/> bsdirect.com/Merchant2/merchant.mvc?page=001/CTGY/ > <http://www.lightbul <http://www.lightbul <http://www.lightbul <http://www.lightbulbsdirect.com/Merchant2/merchant.mvc?page=001/CTGY/> bsdirect.com/Merchant2/merchant.mvc?page=001/CTGY/> bsdirect.com/Merchant2/merchant.mvc?page=001/CTGY/> bsdirect.com/Merchant2/merchant.mvc?page=001/CTGY/ > >> > > > FS+Fluo> > > > rescent > > > > > > The second bulb down would be similar to yours, except we do not > > > know the lumen or color spectrum rating on your bulb, unless that > > > link I gave above is actually your bulb and then it would be the > > > same as this one. The specs on it are: > > > > > > T-10 Fluorescent > > > 40 Watts > > > Length: 48" > > > Medium Bi-Pin Base > > > Color: 5000K Temperature > > > Initial Lumens: 3550 > > > CRI: 84 > > > Average Life: 20,000 Hours > > > > > > The Color spectrum of 5000K (Kelvin) is OK but 6500K would be much > > better. > > > The Lumens of 3550 is the actual amount of *light* > > > > > > The next bulb down from that one is a T-12, which will also fit in > > > your fixture but they are bigger diameter bulbs and this one > > > actually puts out less light (lumens). Here are the specs: > > > > > > T-12 Fluorescent > > > 40 Watts > > > Length: 48" > > > Base: Medium Bi-Pin Base > > > Initial Lumens: 2200 > > > Average Life: 20,000 Hours > > > Color Temperature: 5000K > > > CRI: 92 > > > > > > It has the same Color spectrum but only 2200 lumens so the above > > > T-10 bulb has around 50% more lumens (light) coming out of it. > > > > > > Now, if you scroll down to the second from the bottom on the page, > > > you'll see the Verilux Instant-Sun T-12 bulb which has a higher > > > Kelvin rating but it doesn't list the lumens so this needs to be > > > checked out further. While the higher K rating is good, if it goes > > > back down to only 2200 lumens, instead of the 3550 lumens of the > > > first referenced bulb above, then I would probably go with the > > > 3550 lumens, 5000K bulb over the 6280K bulb if the lumens were a > > > LOT less. > > > > > > (START SNIP) > > > Engineered to reproduce all the colors and balance of natural > > > light, VeriluxR full spectrum fluorescent tubes feature Trucolite > > > Phosphor TechnologyT which includes the use of a stable, custom > > > blend of earth phosphors that create bright, balanced full > > > spectrum light. > > > T-12 Fluorescent > > > 40 Watts > > > Length: 48" > > > Color Temperature: 6280K > > > CRI: 94 > > > Medium Bi-Pin Base > > > (END SNIP) > > > > > > So, as you can see, there's a few things to look for when shopping > > > for new replacement bulbs. Look for the 5000K to 6500K bulbs with > > > the higher lumen rating for the dollar and you should be good. > > > Note that a 3550 or 3700 lumen bulb will put out nearly twice as > > > much light as a 2000 lumen bulb so it can be easy to increase your > > > lighting without increasing the wattage. DO NOT try to use HO or > > > VHO bulbs... which look similar but have much higher wattage, well > > > over the 40W bulbs you now have. These other HO and VHO bulbs have > > > different pin arrangements so they will not fit in your fixture > > > anyhow but I just wanted to save you a trip. > > > > > > Last but not least, if you're handy, you could even take the bulbs > > > out of your fixtures and line the insides of your fixtures with > > > nice and crisp and flat aluminum foil (shiny side exposed) which > > > will also help. Using double stick tape and then carefully > > > applying the foil so it does not wrinkle too much will work > > > well... especially if the inside of your fixture is black. A white > > > reflector is good but a mirrored reflector, like that created by > > > the shiny side of foil, is MUCH better than a black reflector. > > > Most black fixtures do at least have white reflector areas. > > > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> blogspot.com> blogspot.com> blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> blogspot.com> blogspot.com> blogspot.com> > > <http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> blogspot.com> blogspot.com> blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> blogspot.com> blogspot.com> blogspot.com>> > > > <http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> blogspot.com> blogspot.com> blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> blogspot.com> blogspot.com> blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> blogspot.com> blogspot.com> blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> blogspot.com> blogspot.com> blogspot.com>>> > > (Links to any articles referenced in > > > above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under > > > Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > From: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > [mailto:AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On Behalf Of > > > erikaandnewton > > > Sent: Tuesday, November 10, 2009 10:17 AM > > > To: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: wisteria/lighting previous > > > question/response revisited > > > > > > << When you say "two strips" do you have two 4' long two-bulb > > > fixtures already or something else?>> > > > > > > i have two 4' single bulb strip lights. > > > > > > >> What kind of lighting do you currently have? Look at the bulbs > > > >> and there should be some kind of writing on one of the ends. > > > >> Give us that info if you cannot decipher it yourself.<< > > > > > > one bulb is a f40 t10 > > > the other one is a sylvania daylight bulb also f40 > > > > > > >> It's probably 21" tall, since a common measurement for a 75G is > > > >> 48"x18"x21" Tall.>> > > > > > > it is 21 inches tall > > > > > > erika wilmington de usa [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] ------------------------------------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. 74/`7.88.><((((:>.74/`7.88.74/`7.8><((((:> 8.74/`7.8. , .74/`7..><((((:> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <:((((><.74/`7.88.74/`7.8<:((((><8.74/`7.8. , .74/`7..<:((((><74/`7.88. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the home page. Or e-mail aquaticlife- <mailto:aquaticlife-digest%40yahoogroups.com> digest@yahoogroups.com to receive the digest, which includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email Or email aquaticlife- <mailto:aquaticlife-nomail%40yahoogroups.com> nomail@yahoogroups.com for the No E-Mail option where you will still be able to read messages on the group and post replies. Or email aquaticlife- <mailto:aquaticlife-normal%40yahoogroups.com> normal@yahoogroups.com to receive individual e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] ------------------------------------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. 74/`7.88.><((((:>.74/`7.88.74/`7.8><((((:> 8.74/`7.8. , .74/`7..><((((:> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <:((((><.74/`7.88.74/`7.8<:((((><8.74/`7.8. , .74/`7..<:((((><74/`7.88. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the home page. 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Group: AquaticLife	Message: 44447	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 11/12/2009
Subject: Re: Why am I getting these weird messages to this address?

The first thing to do when you start getting quirky stuff from a group is to go in and check your settings. Sometimes, an inadvertent or unintentional act by a moderator could change everyone from Daily Digests back to individual messages.... from Traditional to Enhanced versions, etc. I've also seen where Yahoo will do something that changes the settings for only some members. Check your own settings first and if that isn't the problem, then investigate further. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Wendie Sent: Thursday, November 12, 2009 6:54 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Why am I getting these weird messages to this address? This is something that just started happening to me in the last couple of weeks and I have not touched my Yahoo settings in years. Wendie ----- Original Message ----- From: Donna Ransome To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Thursday, November 12, 2009 7:42 AM Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Why am I getting these weird messages to this address? Plain text. _____ From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Steve Szabo Sent: Thursday, November 12, 2009 7:10 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Why am I getting these weird messages to this address? It would be interesting to see whose messages are doing this for you. I am not seeing any of this, but I do have my settings for plain text on the Yahoo! lists I belong to, and I have not seen it. Are you receiving plain text only, or do you receive the HTML versions of the messages? \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Donna Ransome Sent: Thursday, November 12, 2009 6:56 AM To: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Why am I getting these weird messages to this address? Just certain ones from this list. Should I look at who the senders have been? _____ From: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Steve Szabo Sent: Wednesday, November 11, 2009 10:40 PM To: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Why am I getting these weird messages to this address? Donna, I'd venture that something is munging the messages along the way from Yahoo! to you. Unless this is happening to others here, it probably is not a Yahoo! problem, but occurring at a point closer to you. Do all your messages come in this way? If not is it happening to just Yahoo! messages, or is it just those from this list? \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Donna Ransome Sent: Wednesday, November 11, 2009 7:54 PM To: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Why am I getting these weird messages to this address? sentto-8495157- <mailto:sentto-8495157-44406-1257953244-djransome%3Doptonline.net%40returns. groups.yahoo> 44406-1257953244- <mailto:44406-1257953244-djransome%3Doptonline.net%40returns.groups.yahoo> djransome=optonline.net@... .com It seems to be associated with aquatic life. This one eventually was from Bill with a bunch of stuff in the header first. _____ From: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Steve Szabo Sent: Wednesday, November 11, 2009 6:43 AM To: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: wisteria/lighting previous question/response revisited Lenny, I don't need no steenkin' hack. In Firefox, the bookmarks are kept as they should be, as one file, not each bookmark in a separate file gobbling up disk space as IE does. It also eats up space in the MFT (Master File Table). For those who do not know about such things, when a drive is formatted to hold data, it is broken up into groups of sectors, known as clusters, the value of which defaults, in Windows, to 4K (4096 bytes). They can be any value from 512 bytes to at least 32K (it may be even larger now, with NTFS (new technology file system, but 32K was the limit under 16 bit DOS). When a file is written to disk, using 4K cluster size for the example, it takes up as many clusters as needed. So, a file that is 32K in size would use 8 clusters (4K x 8). A file that is 28K would use 7 clusters (28 k/4K=7). However, a file that is 29K would use 8 clusters. It would fill the 7 clusters, with an extra 1024 bytes, which are placed in the next, or 8th cluster, leaving 3K of that cluster as being unavailable to another file. Consider now, that each bookmark is generally less than 1K (1024 bytes). When you are using IE (Internet Explorer), that means that you are wasting 3K of each available cluster to store the bookmark as a file. Let us assume you have 400 bookmarks. I am sure you can do the math. That would mean that you have 400 files, each taking up 4K of disk space, meaning that you are using 1600K to store those files. This means that 400 entries are placed in the MFT. In the case of Firefox, and other browsers not based on IE, all the bookmarks are stored in a file. Say that you have the same 400 bookmarks, using 1K as the size of each bookmark, on average, that would mean that you have a file that is 400K in size, which (conveniently, it seems) works out to a 100K file, stored in 25 clusters and 1 entry in the MFT. A great savings in disk space. There are other issues to consider here as well, but I am sure you are plenty bored by know. However, (oh no!, he's going to say more even though he said he was done) please keep in mind that drive manufacturers use a decimal system to calculate drive sizes, so that 250GB drive you have in your box is not 250GB to the computer, which uses a binary system to calculate drive size. That is why, when you look at the drive size through your operating system, the drive appears to be smaller than advertised. It's kind of like that 55 gallon tank that actually holds less than 55 gallons. Tank measurements are measuring the outside dimensions of the tank not the inside dimensions, plus, none of use fills a tank right to the top of the tank, giving us an actual capacity of somewhat less than 55 gallons, and that is before we add substrate and decorations, fish, and plants to the tank, each displacing a certain amount of water. (You may insert your own Archimedes joke here.) (Notice how I actually brought this back onto an aquarium topic?) \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Lenny V. aka GoldLenny Sent: Wednesday, November 11, 2009 1:30 AM To: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: wisteria/lighting previous question/response revisited Yeah... I keep kind of hoping that Google will eventually provide an online "Bookmarks/Favorites" service or homepage add-in, which would also include a search feature and maybe even a way to scan for bad links in the Bookmarks/Favorites instead of finding out when you go to use that long kept bookmark/favorite and the site no longer exists... of course, there's always the Wayback Machine at the Internet Archive http://www.archive. <http://www.archive. <http://www.archive. <http://www.archive.org> org> org> org to find websites/pages that have disappeared from the net. I regularly go into my IE Favorites and use the "Organize Favorites" feature to move things around but also will use Windows Explorer, C:\Documents and Settings\Owner\Favorites\, to look at my Favorites folder and drag and drop, move and rename things around in there. Then, there is this Registry hack to mass sort the Favorites folder, sub-folders and files, instead of having to "Sort By Name" inside each folder. From http://www.theelder <http://www.theelder <http://www.theelder <http://www.theeldergeek.com/sort_favorites_menu_alphabetical.htm> geek.com/sort_favorites_menu_alphabetical.htm> geek.com/sort_favorites_menu_alphabetical.htm> geek.com/sort_favorites_menu_alphabetical.htm (with some added instructions by me to clarify some things). Sort Favorites Menu Alphabetically [Start] [Run] [Regedit] Registry Key: HKEY_CURRENT_USER\Software\Microsoft\Windows\CurrentVersion\Explorer\MenuOrd er\Favorites (Click on Favorites to highlight, then in the view panel) Right click the Favorites key *Order* and click Delete Exit registry and reboot. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> blogspot.com> blogspot.com> blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Steve Szabo Sent: Tuesday, November 10, 2009 11:43 PM To: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: wisteria/lighting previous question/response revisited Lenny, I have a couple of problems. First, I do have a lot of folders and sub folders for things, and try to use them. However, I can also be pressed for time, and just bookmark it, thinking I'll fix it later. Somehow, later comes even later than one would expect, and when it does arrive, I do a bunch, but never finish going through the list. The other problem is that what made sense at the time, may not make sense when I am looking for the bookmark, possible because I a thinking about the topic in a different way than when I bookmarked the site. It is kind of like how one searches the web. If your first key words do not provide what you are looking for, you modify those terms and search again. Same topic, a bit different way of looking at it. Eventually, you will get what you want. What I probably need is a bookmark search engine. For those of you who were born and weaned with Windows, bookmarks is the correct term, not Microsoft's Favorites, though, I must admit, it is possible to have favorite bookmarks. \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Lenny V. aka GoldLenny Sent: Tuesday, November 10, 2009 11:57 PM To: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: wisteria/lighting previous question/response revisited Bookmarks and Favorites are filing systems... if you don't know how/where it's filed, you won't find it anyhow. I have an extensive Favorites folder with dozens of primary folders and then dozens if not hundreds of sub-folders and sub-sub-folders, for example, under Favorites, I have 59 primary folders and one of them is called Aquarium Sites, then, in that folder, I have 44 alphabetized sub-folders just in that folder, from Additives and Algae to Tutorials-Quizzes and UGF Filters (no V,W,X,Y,Z sub-folders under Aquarium... not sure why not). Then in the Algae folder, I have 7 sub-sub-folders dealing with topics such as Algae Eaters, Allelopathic Control, Diatoms-Brown Algae, Hair Algae, Hydrogen Peroxide, Pond Algae, SeaChem Flourish Excel For Treating Algae and then 11 other favorites about Algae in general, for a total of 48 links, just about Algae. My Favorites folder, when looking at its Properties, is 1.41MB in size and consists of 2,057 files (links) and 306 folders (incl. sub and sub-sub folders) in totality. Many years of surfing and saving and starting off with an organizational plan from the start makes it easy for me to navigate and find things easily. My Favorites is like a mini-Google. ;-) I have been toying around with the idea of using a web resource to keep my Favorites folder online so I can sync it with all of my computers and/or just use it as an online Favorites folder that I can log into from any computer. For now, I use LogMeIn (Free) to connect to my main computer from my laptop when I'm out in the streets playing... oops.. I meant working. But I don't think I'd share my Favorites or then I'd have to go in and edit out all my favorite porn links... well, maybe not for Bill. LOL Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> blogspot.com> blogspot.com> blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Amber Berglund Sent: Tuesday, November 10, 2009 10:25 PM To: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: wisteria/lighting previous question/response revisited No worries Bill, I do the same thing, maybe Lenny will be so kind as to send us all his bookmarks? LOL Amber bill 1433 wrote: > > Yes, Amber > > It was I, looking for the original information and also looked back on > \\Steve//'s post at group to try and find. Ray had mentioned all this > the other day saying that he thought the posting came from \\Steve//. > > I was not successful in my search. Also, for me the most important > part was a link to a chart which showed you exactly, or explained > exactly the "T" factor stands for. For instance, T-4 would be a tube > that is a half inch wide, or close to it-----------I think. All this > is my own fault. In my interest to acquire and learn about lighting,I > went through and studied the applied links but being ol'bill, I never > bookmarked them. Then to further compound the problem, I deleted the > original message that it came from. In hind-sight you could probably > chalk this all up to felonious stupidity on my part. > > Bill---where its always a good day if I learn something new! > > --- On Tue, 11/10/09, Amber Berglund <arberglund@gmail. <mailto:arberglund%40gmail.com> com > <mailto:arberglund%40gmail.com>> wrote: > > From: Amber Berglund <arberglund@gmail. <mailto:arberglund%40gmail.com> com > <mailto:arberglund%40gmail.com>> > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: wisteria/lighting previous > question/response revisited > To: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Date: Tuesday, November 10, 2009, 9:30 PM > > I believe it was Steve who posted a link about lumens months back when > (I think it was maybe Bill asking) about lighting for planted aquariums. > Plants require 2 different spectrums of light to properly produce > either leaves or flowers (red is more for flower production and blue > is more for growth, but for the best growing you want a mixture of BOTH colors). > So in reality you would want a light that appears more brown/reddish > in coloring and a blue/white coloring as well, but they now have bulbs > that have BOTH spectrums built in (I'm sure they don't work as well as > it would to have 2 different bulbs one mostly red and the other mostly > blue on the color spectrum). > Let me see if I still have the link bookmarked. > What I was trying to say is that Kelvin does not tell you what color > spectrum the light REALLY is, it's actually measuring it's light > output color according to how the human eyes perceive it. So 6500 > kelvin in general is what most plants will prefer because that is a > mixture of both red and blue spectrums (In MOST bulbs) unfortunately > not all light bulb manufactures have to use the exact same chart for > their colors, so they will have different colors than another bulb > that says it's 6500 Kelvin. what you really need to read is the color > chart on the box, not what lumens it says it is. > (still searching for link, LOL). > > This isn't the right link but it discusses the kelvin/lumen problems a > little bit, still looking for the link that showed the charts and what > to look for in the color charts. > http://www.american <http://www.american <http://www.american <http://www.americanaquariumproducts.com/Aquarium_Lighting.html> aquariumproducts.com/Aquarium_Lighting.html> aquariumproducts.com/Aquarium_Lighting.html> aquariumproducts.com/Aquarium_Lighting.html > <http://www.american <http://www.american <http://www.american <http://www.americanaquariumproducts.com/Aquarium_Lighting.html> aquariumproducts.com/Aquarium_Lighting.html> aquariumproducts.com/Aquarium_Lighting.html> aquariumproducts.com/Aquarium_Lighting.html> > > Will post again when I find the other link with chart examples. > > Amber > > Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > > > > I think it would be false advertising or possibly mis-advertising > (if they > > do not know any better) if a company lists their bulbs as 6500K and > > they aren't. The Kelvin scale, just like Watts and Lumens, are ALL > > universal and scientifically measurable scales BUT, as I showed > > below, not all 40 watt bulbs put out the same amount of light > > (lumens) or in the same color spectrum (Kelvin rating). All 40 watt > > bulbs, whether incandescent, fluorescent, CFL, LED, Halogen, etc.... > > ALL use only/around 40 watts of electricity but their light output > > can vary dramatically. This is why fluorescent bulbs are so much > > more efficient than incandescent bulbs and CFL's are even more > > efficient... as a 40W fluorescent bulb puts out > a LOT > > more light (lumens) than a 40 watt incandescent bulb and a 40W CFL > > puts out more light (lumens) than a 40W fluorescent bulb. This is > > why the OLD "Watts Per Gallon" rule simply does not work any more. > > > > BUT.. if three different companies are selling standard T-10 > > fluorescent bulbs with the same exact rating of 40W, 3550 lumens and > > 6500K rating... all three of those bulbs should be VERY SIMILAR if > > not identical in the way they appear to our eyes (subject to our own > > degree of color blindness, of > > course!) > > > > In the past, things like "soft white", "warm white", "daylight", > > "plant grow", etc., type terms were used and are still used but > > those are just simple words (not subject to a scientific scale) to > > describe the Kelvin rating ranges but lumens are just as important > > since a bulb could have a 6500K rating with only 2200 lumens where > > another bulb could have a 6500K rating and 3550 or 3700 lumens and > > that bulb would put out over 50% more light (lumens) in the same > > color spectrum (Kelvin rating) so it > would be a > > much more cost effective bulb if it cost the same amount or only a > little > > more. > > > > I'm slightly confused about the "red and blue light for your plants" > > as those two colors are on opposite ends of the Kelvin Scale with > > reds and ambers in the lower numbers and greens and blues in the > > higher > numbers. I > > think this is why you would want a mid-range (5000K to 6500K) bulb > > as those are generally considered "full spectrum" or "daylight" > > bulbs. Here's a color picture of the Kelvin Scale, > > http://www.bltdirec <http://www.bltdirec <http://www.bltdirec <http://www.bltdirect.com/images/colour-temperature.jpg> t.com/images/colour-temperature.jpg> t.com/images/colour-temperature.jpg> t.com/images/colour-temperature.jpg > <http://www.bltdirec <http://www.bltdirec <http://www.bltdirec <http://www.bltdirect.com/images/colour-temperature.jpg> t.com/images/colour-temperature.jpg> t.com/images/colour-temperature.jpg> t.com/images/colour-temperature.jpg> > > <http://www.bltdirec <http://www.bltdirec <http://www.bltdirec <http://www.bltdirect.com/images/colour-temperature.jpg> t.com/images/colour-temperature.jpg> t.com/images/colour-temperature.jpg> t.com/images/colour-temperature.jpg > <http://www.bltdirec <http://www.bltdirec <http://www.bltdirec <http://www.bltdirect.com/images/colour-temperature.jpg> t.com/images/colour-temperature.jpg> t.com/images/colour-temperature.jpg> t.com/images/colour-temperature.jpg>> and you can > > visually > > see that the 5000K to 6500K range is all about the same "color". I > > think this is also why Actinic bulbs are usually higher and closer > > to the > 10000K > > range and up... apparently, the Kelvin lighting scale can go up to > 20,000K > > (according to this article about Reef Tanks > > http://nh.craigslis <http://nh.craigslis <http://nh.craigslis <http://nh.craigslist.org/for/1423072406.html> t.org/for/1423072406.html> t.org/for/1423072406.html> t.org/for/1423072406.html > <http://nh.craigslis <http://nh.craigslis <http://nh.craigslis <http://nh.craigslist.org/for/1423072406.html> t.org/for/1423072406.html> t.org/for/1423072406.html> t.org/for/1423072406.html> > > <http://nh.craigslis <http://nh.craigslis <http://nh.craigslis <http://nh.craigslist.org/for/1423072406.html> t.org/for/1423072406.html> t.org/for/1423072406.html> t.org/for/1423072406.html > <http://nh.craigslis <http://nh.craigslis <http://nh.craigslis <http://nh.craigslist.org/for/1423072406.html> t.org/for/1423072406.html> t.org/for/1423072406.html> t.org/for/1423072406.html>> on, of all places, > > Craigslist). > > Here is the page that that the above photo link came from and it has > > a chart that also explains things a little more also and talks about > > the > CRI, yet > > another lighting term (Color Rendition Index). > > http://www.bltdirec <http://www.bltdirec <http://www.bltdirec <http://www.bltdirect.com/lampColourTemperatures.php> t.com/lampColourTemperatures.php> t.com/lampColourTemperatures.php> t.com/lampColourTemperatures.php > <http://www.bltdirec <http://www.bltdirec <http://www.bltdirec <http://www.bltdirect.com/lampColourTemperatures.php> t.com/lampColourTemperatures.php> t.com/lampColourTemperatures.php> t.com/lampColourTemperatures.php> > > <http://www.bltdirec <http://www.bltdirec <http://www.bltdirec <http://www.bltdirect.com/lampColourTemperatures.php> t.com/lampColourTemperatures.php> t.com/lampColourTemperatures.php> t.com/lampColourTemperatures.php > <http://www.bltdirec <http://www.bltdirec <http://www.bltdirec <http://www.bltdirect.com/lampColourTemperatures.php> t.com/lampColourTemperatures.php> t.com/lampColourTemperatures.php> t.com/lampColourTemperatures.php>> > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> blogspot.com> blogspot.com> blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> blogspot.com> blogspot.com> blogspot.com> <http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> blogspot.com> blogspot.com> blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> blogspot.com> blogspot.com> blogspot.com>> > > (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the > > right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by > > Year, > Month) > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > [mailto:AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On Behalf Of Amber Berglund > > Sent: Tuesday, November 10, 2009 4:22 PM > > To: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: wisteria/lighting previous > > question/response revisited > > > > Another thing to consider is one light company's 6500 kelvin rating > > may not be identical to another light bulb from a different company > > that's rated the same. The important thing to look at is the color > > chart they show on the boxes, you want more red and blue light for > > your plants, green is not useful or harmful as the plants reflect > > the light back (makes them appear more green but does nothing else > > for them). The kelvin rating is based on our eyes and how they > > perceive color, so each company doesn't have to be identical, > > perhaps some day they will have a universal way to measure light > > spectrums on bulbs that is much less confusing. > > > > Amber > > > > Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > > > > > > OK. So you have a total of 80 watts right now, which is just over > > > 1 WPG, which means you only have enough lighting for low-light, > > > easy to grow plants. See my blog article "Planted Tank: So You > > > Want A Planted Tank" for links to lists of low-light, easy to grow > > > plants that will do OK in your tank. You should replace those tubes at least yearly... > > > although some say every six months. As far as I know, a 40W bulb > > > is the highest wattage made for this type of bulb/fixture right > > > now but you can increase your lighting > > > (lumens) and K (Kelvin) rating. See below. > > > > > > NOTE - below links are for example/informational purposes only, as > > > I know nothing about the sites. God... did I just say that? Do I > > > really have to add disclaimers to my posts now? LOL Just laughing at myself. > > > LOL > > > > > > This may be your Sylvania bulb... > > > http://www.lightbul <http://www.lightbul <http://www.lightbul <http://www.lightbulbemporium.com/proddetail.asp?prod=F40/EX50> bemporium.com/proddetail.asp?prod=F40/EX50> bemporium.com/proddetail.asp?prod=F40/EX50> bemporium.com/proddetail.asp?prod=F40/EX50 > <http://www.lightbul <http://www.lightbul <http://www.lightbul <http://www.lightbulbemporium.com/proddetail.asp?prod=F40/EX50> bemporium.com/proddetail.asp?prod=F40/EX50> bemporium.com/proddetail.asp?prod=F40/EX50> bemporium.com/proddetail.asp?prod=F40/EX50> > > <http://www.lightbul <http://www.lightbul <http://www.lightbul <http://www.lightbulbemporium.com/proddetail.asp?prod=F40/EX50> bemporium.com/proddetail.asp?prod=F40/EX50> bemporium.com/proddetail.asp?prod=F40/EX50> bemporium.com/proddetail.asp?prod=F40/EX50 > <http://www.lightbul <http://www.lightbul <http://www.lightbul <http://www.lightbulbemporium.com/proddetail.asp?prod=F40/EX50> bemporium.com/proddetail.asp?prod=F40/EX50> bemporium.com/proddetail.asp?prod=F40/EX50> bemporium.com/proddetail.asp?prod=F40/EX50>> > > > <http://www.lightbul <http://www.lightbul <http://www.lightbul <http://www.lightbulbemporium.com/proddetail.asp?prod=F40/EX50> bemporium.com/proddetail.asp?prod=F40/EX50> bemporium.com/proddetail.asp?prod=F40/EX50> bemporium.com/proddetail.asp?prod=F40/EX50 > <http://www.lightbul <http://www.lightbul <http://www.lightbul <http://www.lightbulbemporium.com/proddetail.asp?prod=F40/EX50> bemporium.com/proddetail.asp?prod=F40/EX50> bemporium.com/proddetail.asp?prod=F40/EX50> bemporium.com/proddetail.asp?prod=F40/EX50> > > <http://www.lightbul <http://www.lightbul <http://www.lightbul <http://www.lightbulbemporium.com/proddetail.asp?prod=F40/EX50> bemporium.com/proddetail.asp?prod=F40/EX50> bemporium.com/proddetail.asp?prod=F40/EX50> bemporium.com/proddetail.asp?prod=F40/EX50 > <http://www.lightbul <http://www.lightbul <http://www.lightbul <http://www.lightbulbemporium.com/proddetail.asp?prod=F40/EX50> bemporium.com/proddetail.asp?prod=F40/EX50> bemporium.com/proddetail.asp?prod=F40/EX50> bemporium.com/proddetail.asp?prod=F40/EX50>>> and > if > > > it is, then it's the same ratings as the specs in the T-10 bulb > > > that I copy/pasted below, which is a pretty good bulb with higher > > > lumens and the higher K rating, although not a 6500K rated bulb. > > > At the bottom of this page, there was a link to this bulb... > > > > > > http://www.lightbul <http://www.lightbul <http://www.lightbul <http://www.lightbulbemporium.com/maxlite_51204_ml_f40t10_850_rscg.asp> bemporium.com/maxlite_51204_ml_f40t10_850_rscg.asp> bemporium.com/maxlite_51204_ml_f40t10_850_rscg.asp> bemporium.com/maxlite_51204_ml_f40t10_850_rscg.asp > <http://www.lightbul <http://www.lightbul <http://www.lightbul <http://www.lightbulbemporium.com/maxlite_51204_ml_f40t10_850_rscg.asp> bemporium.com/maxlite_51204_ml_f40t10_850_rscg.asp> bemporium.com/maxlite_51204_ml_f40t10_850_rscg.asp> bemporium.com/maxlite_51204_ml_f40t10_850_rscg.asp > > > > > <http://www.lightbul <http://www.lightbul <http://www.lightbul <http://www.lightbulbemporium.com/maxlite_51204_ml_f40t10_850_rscg.asp> bemporium.com/maxlite_51204_ml_f40t10_850_rscg.asp> bemporium.com/maxlite_51204_ml_f40t10_850_rscg.asp> bemporium.com/maxlite_51204_ml_f40t10_850_rscg.asp > <http://www.lightbul <http://www.lightbul <http://www.lightbul <http://www.lightbulbemporium.com/maxlite_51204_ml_f40t10_850_rscg.asp> bemporium.com/maxlite_51204_ml_f40t10_850_rscg.asp> bemporium.com/maxlite_51204_ml_f40t10_850_rscg.asp> bemporium.com/maxlite_51204_ml_f40t10_850_rscg.asp > >> > > > > > > <http://www.lightbul <http://www.lightbul <http://www.lightbul <http://www.lightbulbemporium.com/maxlite_51204_ml_f40t10_850_rscg.asp> bemporium.com/maxlite_51204_ml_f40t10_850_rscg.asp> bemporium.com/maxlite_51204_ml_f40t10_850_rscg.asp> bemporium.com/maxlite_51204_ml_f40t10_850_rscg.asp > <http://www.lightbul <http://www.lightbul <http://www.lightbul <http://www.lightbulbemporium.com/maxlite_51204_ml_f40t10_850_rscg.asp> bemporium.com/maxlite_51204_ml_f40t10_850_rscg.asp> bemporium.com/maxlite_51204_ml_f40t10_850_rscg.asp> bemporium.com/maxlite_51204_ml_f40t10_850_rscg.asp > > > > > <http://www.lightbul <http://www.lightbul <http://www.lightbul <http://www.lightbulbemporium.com/maxlite_51204_ml_f40t10_850_rscg.asp> bemporium.com/maxlite_51204_ml_f40t10_850_rscg.asp> bemporium.com/maxlite_51204_ml_f40t10_850_rscg.asp> bemporium.com/maxlite_51204_ml_f40t10_850_rscg.asp > <http://www.lightbul <http://www.lightbul <http://www.lightbul <http://www.lightbulbemporium.com/maxlite_51204_ml_f40t10_850_rscg.asp> bemporium.com/maxlite_51204_ml_f40t10_850_rscg.asp> bemporium.com/maxlite_51204_ml_f40t10_850_rscg.asp> bemporium.com/maxlite_51204_ml_f40t10_850_rscg.asp > >> > > > > > > > which > > > has an even higher lumen rating of 3700, although not much higher > > > than the 3550 rating but every little bit helps especially since > > > the MaxLite bulb was a lower price than the Sylvania bulb. > > > > > > As you will see on this page > > > > > > http://www.lightbul <http://www.lightbul <http://www.lightbul <http://www.lightbulbsdirect.com/Merchant2/merchant.mvc?page=001/CTGY/F> bsdirect.com/Merchant2/merchant.mvc?page=001/CTGY/F> bsdirect.com/Merchant2/merchant.mvc?page=001/CTGY/F> bsdirect.com/Merchant2/merchant.mvc?page=001/CTGY/F > <http://www.lightbul <http://www.lightbul <http://www.lightbul <http://www.lightbulbsdirect.com/Merchant2/merchant.mvc?page=001/CTGY/> bsdirect.com/Merchant2/merchant.mvc?page=001/CTGY/> bsdirect.com/Merchant2/merchant.mvc?page=001/CTGY/> bsdirect.com/Merchant2/merchant.mvc?page=001/CTGY/ > F> > > > <http://www.lightbul <http://www.lightbul <http://www.lightbul <http://www.lightbulbsdirect.com/Merchant2/merchant.mvc?page=001/CTGY/> bsdirect.com/Merchant2/merchant.mvc?page=001/CTGY/> bsdirect.com/Merchant2/merchant.mvc?page=001/CTGY/> bsdirect.com/Merchant2/merchant.mvc?page=001/CTGY/ > F > <http://www.lightbul <http://www.lightbul <http://www.lightbul <http://www.lightbulbsdirect.com/Merchant2/merchant.mvc?page=001/CTGY/> bsdirect.com/Merchant2/merchant.mvc?page=001/CTGY/> bsdirect.com/Merchant2/merchant.mvc?page=001/CTGY/> bsdirect.com/Merchant2/merchant.mvc?page=001/CTGY/ > F>> > > > S+Fluo > > > > > > <http://www.lightbul <http://www.lightbul <http://www.lightbul <http://www.lightbulbsdirect.com/Merchant2/merchant.mvc?page=001/CTGY/> bsdirect.com/Merchant2/merchant.mvc?page=001/CTGY/> bsdirect.com/Merchant2/merchant.mvc?page=001/CTGY/> bsdirect.com/Merchant2/merchant.mvc?page=001/CTGY/ > <http://www.lightbul <http://www.lightbul <http://www.lightbul <http://www.lightbulbsdirect.com/Merchant2/merchant.mvc?page=001/CTGY/> bsdirect.com/Merchant2/merchant.mvc?page=001/CTGY/> bsdirect.com/Merchant2/merchant.mvc?page=001/CTGY/> bsdirect.com/Merchant2/merchant.mvc?page=001/CTGY/ > > > > > <http://www.lightbul <http://www.lightbul <http://www.lightbul <http://www.lightbulbsdirect.com/Merchant2/merchant.mvc?page=001/CTGY/> bsdirect.com/Merchant2/merchant.mvc?page=001/CTGY/> bsdirect.com/Merchant2/merchant.mvc?page=001/CTGY/> bsdirect.com/Merchant2/merchant.mvc?page=001/CTGY/ > <http://www.lightbul <http://www.lightbul <http://www.lightbul <http://www.lightbulbsdirect.com/Merchant2/merchant.mvc?page=001/CTGY/> bsdirect.com/Merchant2/merchant.mvc?page=001/CTGY/> bsdirect.com/Merchant2/merchant.mvc?page=001/CTGY/> bsdirect.com/Merchant2/merchant.mvc?page=001/CTGY/ > >> > > > FS+Fluo> > > > rescent > > > > > > The second bulb down would be similar to yours, except we do not > > > know the lumen or color spectrum rating on your bulb, unless that > > > link I gave above is actually your bulb and then it would be the > > > same as this one. The specs on it are: > > > > > > T-10 Fluorescent > > > 40 Watts > > > Length: 48" > > > Medium Bi-Pin Base > > > Color: 5000K Temperature > > > Initial Lumens: 3550 > > > CRI: 84 > > > Average Life: 20,000 Hours > > > > > > The Color spectrum of 5000K (Kelvin) is OK but 6500K would be much > > better. > > > The Lumens of 3550 is the actual amount of *light* > > > > > > The next bulb down from that one is a T-12, which will also fit in > > > your fixture but they are bigger diameter bulbs and this one > > > actually puts out less light (lumens). Here are the specs: > > > > > > T-12 Fluorescent > > > 40 Watts > > > Length: 48" > > > Base: Medium Bi-Pin Base > > > Initial Lumens: 2200 > > > Average Life: 20,000 Hours > > > Color Temperature: 5000K > > > CRI: 92 > > > > > > It has the same Color spectrum but only 2200 lumens so the above > > > T-10 bulb has around 50% more lumens (light) coming out of it. > > > > > > Now, if you scroll down to the second from the bottom on the page, > > > you'll see the Verilux Instant-Sun T-12 bulb which has a higher > > > Kelvin rating but it doesn't list the lumens so this needs to be > > > checked out further. While the higher K rating is good, if it goes > > > back down to only 2200 lumens, instead of the 3550 lumens of the > > > first referenced bulb above, then I would probably go with the > > > 3550 lumens, 5000K bulb over the 6280K bulb if the lumens were a LOT less. > > > > > > (START SNIP) > > > Engineered to reproduce all the colors and balance of natural > > > light, VeriluxR full spectrum fluorescent tubes feature Trucolite > > > Phosphor TechnologyT which includes the use of a stable, custom > > > blend of earth phosphors that create bright, balanced full spectrum light. > > > T-12 Fluorescent > > > 40 Watts > > > Length: 48" > > > Color Temperature: 6280K > > > CRI: 94 > > > Medium Bi-Pin Base > > > (END SNIP) > > > > > > So, as you can see, there's a few things to look for when shopping > > > for new replacement bulbs. Look for the 5000K to 6500K bulbs with > > > the higher lumen rating for the dollar and you should be good. > > > Note that a 3550 or 3700 lumen bulb will put out nearly twice as > > > much light as a 2000 lumen bulb so it can be easy to increase your > > > lighting without increasing the wattage. DO NOT try to use HO or > > > VHO bulbs... which look similar but have much higher wattage, well > > > over the 40W bulbs you now have. These other HO and VHO bulbs have > > > different pin arrangements so they will not fit in your fixture > > > anyhow but I just wanted to save you a trip. > > > > > > Last but not least, if you're handy, you could even take the bulbs > > > out of your fixtures and line the insides of your fixtures with > > > nice and crisp and flat aluminum foil (shiny side exposed) which > > > will also help. Using double stick tape and then carefully > > > applying the foil so it does not wrinkle too much will work > > > well... especially if the inside of your fixture is black. A white > > > reflector is good but a mirrored reflector, like that created by > > > the shiny side of foil, is MUCH better than a black reflector. > > > Most black fixtures do at least have white reflector areas. > > > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> blogspot.com> blogspot.com> blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> blogspot.com> blogspot.com> blogspot.com> > > <http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> blogspot.com> blogspot.com> blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> blogspot.com> blogspot.com> blogspot.com>> > > > <http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> blogspot.com> blogspot.com> blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> blogspot.com> blogspot.com> blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> blogspot.com> blogspot.com> blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> blogspot.com> blogspot.com> blogspot.com>>> > > (Links to any articles referenced in > > > above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under > > > Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > From: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > [mailto:AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On Behalf Of > > > erikaandnewton > > > Sent: Tuesday, November 10, 2009 10:17 AM > > > To: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: wisteria/lighting previous > > > question/response revisited > > > > > > << When you say "two strips" do you have two 4' long two-bulb > > > fixtures already or something else?>> > > > > > > i have two 4' single bulb strip lights. > > > > > > >> What kind of lighting do you currently have? Look at the bulbs > > > >> and there should be some kind of writing on one of the ends. > > > >> Give us that info if you cannot decipher it yourself.<< > > > > > > one bulb is a f40 t10 > > > the other one is a sylvania daylight bulb also f40 > > > > > > >> It's probably 21" tall, since a common measurement for a 75G is > > > >> 48"x18"x21" Tall.>> > > > > > > it is 21 inches tall > > > > > > erika wilmington de usa [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] ------------------------------------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. 74/`7.88.><((((:>.74/`7.88.74/`7.8><((((:> 8.74/`7.8. , .74/`7..><((((:> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <:((((><.74/`7.88.74/`7.8<:((((><8.74/`7.8. , .74/`7..<:((((><74/`7.88. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the home page. Or e-mail aquaticlife- <mailto:aquaticlife-digest%40yahoogroups.com> digest@yahoogroups.com to receive the digest, which includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email Or email aquaticlife- <mailto:aquaticlife-nomail%40yahoogroups.com> nomail@yahoogroups.com for the No E-Mail option where you will still be able to read messages on the group and post replies. Or email aquaticlife- <mailto:aquaticlife-normal%40yahoogroups.com> normal@yahoogroups.com to receive individual e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] ------------------------------------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the home page. 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Group: AquaticLife	Message: 44448	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 11/12/2009
Subject: Re: wisteria/lighting previous question/response revisited

I don't know what you mean by this. Please elaborate. What size tube? I posted about several different bulbs but all were T-12's, which is one of the most common sizes. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of bill 1433 Sent: Thursday, November 12, 2009 8:59 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: wisteria/lighting previous question/response revisited Yes Len, But its finding that size tube with more of anything that's the problem. Bill --- On Wed, 11/11/09, Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@...> wrote: > From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@...> > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: wisteria/lighting previous > question/response revisited > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Date: Wednesday, November 11, 2009, 5:22 PM Well, if you only have > 17W, then you could definitely do better with the 20W, higher lumen, > better K rating bulbs that I mentioned.  Considering the lumen ratings > of fluorescent bulbs I've looked at, your 17W bulbs might only have > 500-700 lumens where the BEST 20W bulb (below) has > 1075 lumens so you > could possibly increase your lighting by 50% to 100% just by changing > to that bulb.  At least, with that bulb, you'll be in the low-light > range for plants on the 20G but the 29G will need some work. > > Of course, you should find out what the lumens and K ratings are on > the bulbs you have so you'll know if you are getting a small jump or a > BIG jump in lighting just by changing your bulbs.  Check your local > WalMart for bulbs.  My nearby WalMart SuperCenter has a really big > assortment of fluorescent tubes and they were cheaper than the Home > Depot. > > Something else I'm thinking about for you is going with 18" > light-sticks on > each end of your 29G tank or front or back (back would hide it best > but you decide your best aesthetics) and you'd have to make a DIY > reflector for it (white poster board and scotch tape would work) and > that would get more lighting down to the bottom level plants in the > 29G. > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles > referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically > under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) > > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] > On > Behalf Of bill 1433 > Sent: Wednesday, November 11, 2009 3:42 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: wisteria/lighting previous > question/response > revisited > > It is what it is type of thing Len.  Site says one > thing but stamped or > printed right on the tube is at 17 watts. > > Bill > > --- On Wed, 11/11/09, Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@...> > wrote: > > > From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@...> > > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: wisteria/lighting > previous > > question/response revisited > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > Date: Wednesday, November 11, 2009, 2:16 PM The > problem might be this > > statement in the description... > > > > "... Hoods include 8000ºK bulb... ...20W, 24"..." > > > > That's getting into the higher green/blue Kelvin > range... > > closer to the > > 10,000K actinic type bulbs... than the 5000K to 6500K > "Daylight" bulbs > > that provide full spectrum lighting.  It's also only > a 20W bulb > > (according to the DFS site, although you stated it was > only 17W so > > double check this) so it's only 1WPG on the 20G and > only 0.69WPG on > > the 29G.  Of course, if the bulb puts out a LOT more > lumens (you would > > have to do more checking up on the bulb to find this), > that would help > > a little but not much.  I think you need at least > 1WPG to have success > > with low-light plants, although floating plants like > Anacharis, > > Hornwort, Duckweed, etc., would be up close to the > light and benefit > > from CO2 from the air and would do OK with your > lighting... but then > > they would also block out the lighting to the rest of > the tank. > > > > I don't see a lot of options, as far as T-8 bulbs are > concerned for > > this size fixture but I see a few different T-12's... > such as... > > > > (My rating is: GOOD - but see BETTER and BEST options > below... at > > least as far as the bulbs on this site are concerned) > > > > http://www.servicelighting.com/Sylvania-22119-F20T12-DSGN50-T12-Straig > > ht-Lin > > ear-Fluorescent-Light-Bulb > > > > Light Output:  880 lumens > > Refers to the literal measure of the light-output of a > particular > > light bulb, measured in the number of lumens. > > > > Energy Used:  20 watts > > "Watts" is the term applied to the amount of energy > required and used > > by a particular light bulb. It is an international > system unit of > > power equal to one joule per second. Contrary to > popular belief, the > > wattage of a bulb does not directly measure the > brightness; the > > "lumens" of a light is what defines the actual light > output. > >  > > Average Lifetime:  9,000 hours > > This refers to an average lifetime rating based on > large quantities in > > test groups. This testing takes into account usage of > 3 hours per > > start for fluorescent lamps and 10 hours per start for > HID lamps. > >  > > Bulb Type:  T12 > > The "Bulb Type" is typically a combination of the > style of bulb as > > well as the width of the bulb. Usually, the first > couple letters will > > indicate the type; "G" would indicate "Globe", "PAR" > would indicate > > "Parabolic Reflector"... The numbers indicate the > diameter of the > > light bulb in eighths of an inch; a "G40" would be a > "Globe" style > > that is "5 inches" in diameter. > > > >  > > Base Type:  Medium Bi-Pin > > The "Base" of a light bulb is the part that either > screws or snaps > > into a receptacle. Base Type terminology may indicate > common > > descriptive words like "Medium" or "Candelabra", or > may even contain > > numeric codes that signify size and variety, like > "E26" or "2GX13". > >  > > Color Temperature:  5,000K > > Correlated Color Temperature (CCT) is a specification > of the color > > appearance of a lamp, relating its color to that of a > reference source > > heated to a particular temperature, measured in > degrees Kelvin (K). It > > generally measures the "warmth" or "coolness" of light > source > > appearance. > > > > CRI:  90 > > CRI refers to the "Color Rendering Index" of a light > bulb. > > CRI measures a > > light source and grades its ability to render the > color of objects > > "correctly," as compared with a reference source with > comparable color > > temperature. 100 is perfect rendering. > >  > > Length:  24 inches > > > > > > (BETTER - slightly higher lumens and higher 6500K > rating) > > > > http://www.servicelighting.com/Westinghouse-36516-F20T12-FS-T12-Straig > > ht-Lin > > ear-Fluorescent-Light-Bulb > > > > Light Output:  900 lumens > > Energy Used:  20 watts > > Average Lifetime:  10,000 hours > > Bulb Type:  T12 > > Base Type:  Medium Bi-Pin > > Color Temperature:  6,500K > > CRI:  90 > > Length:  24 inches > > > > > > > > (BEST, of these three - around 20% higher lumens and > good 6,500K > > rating, although it does have a lower CRI rating.. but > still > > passing) > > > > http://www.servicelighting.com/Sylvania-22083-F20T12-D-T12-Straight-Li > > near-F > > luorescent-Light-Bulb > > > > Light Output:  1,075 lumens > > Energy Used:  20 watts > > Average Lifetime:  9,000 hours > > Bulb Type:  T12 > > Base Type:  Medium Bi-Pin > > Color Temperature:  6,500K > > CRI:  76 > > Length:  24 inches > > > > Compare the above three to what is sold as a > plant/aquarium light by > > the same company, which has a lower lumens, MUCH lower > CRI rating and > > does not list the K rating other than to say "Plant" > which is a > > subjective rating established by the manufacturer. > > > > (WORST) > > > > http://www.servicelighting.com/Westinghouse-36411-F20T12-PL-T12-Straig > > ht-Lin > > ear-Fluorescent-Light-Bulb > > > > Light Output:  700 lumens (over 30% less lighting > than the 1,075 > > lumens bulb > > above) > > Energy Used:  20 watts > > Average Lifetime:  10,000 hours > > Bulb Type:  T12 > > Base Type:  Medium Bi-Pin > > Color:  Plant > > CRI:  61 > > Length:  24 inches > > > > If any of the above have much better lumens than your > current > > lighting... > > and they all have better K ratings, then any of them > would be better > > for you... but you would still be stuck with only 20 > watts but it's > > the LUMENS and K rating that count more than watts.  > You need to find > > out the lumens on your bulb.  Try to find it on the > DFS site and let > > us know. > > > > You should look at the AHSupply.com place for a > retrofit kit so you > > can use CFL's in your current hood.  That would > probably be your least > > expensive option.  I know you don't like electricity > but I'm sure you > > know someone that could do this for you... on the > cheap... or over a > > 6-pack. > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to > any articles > > referenced in above reply are listed on the right > side, alphabetically > > under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] > > On > > Behalf Of bill 1433 > > Sent: Wednesday, November 11, 2009 9:33 AM > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: wisteria/lighting > previous > > question/response > > revisited > > > > Hi \\Steve// > > > > At this point, and also to refresh your mind, and > anyone > > else on the group > > that may have interest.  This all got started with > my > > search for a tube that > > would allow me more light output from an All Glass > Plastic > > hood and light. > > This unit comes with a "color type tube at 17 watts > that is > > only 24 inches > > long.  This is for a 20/29-gallon tank.  I was > > stupid enough to buy two of > > them, one for each tank.  For further inspection > here > > is the light: > > > > http://www.drsfostersmith.com/product/prod_display.cfm?pcatid=13447 > > > > For those that would like to aggravate themselves > further, > > I can also state > > that these hoods are very conducive to growing Black > > Algae! > > > > Summoning up, I should have only purchased an > All-Glass > > cover and then > > probably a double tube light of sufficient wattage to > bring > > me up to the > > recommended 2 or 3 watts per gallon. > > > > Ya live and learn, > > > > Bill > > > > > > --- On Tue, 11/10/09, Steve Szabo <steve@...> > > wrote: > > > > > From: Steve Szabo <steve@...> > > > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: wisteria/lighting > > previous > > > question/response revisited > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > > Date: Tuesday, November 10, 2009, 11:50 PM Bill, > you > > got it right! The > > > T numbers represent the diameter of the bulb in > 1/8" > > increments. A T4 > > > is a bulb 1/2" in diameter,  T5 is 5/8", t8 is > 1" and > > a t12 is 1 1/2". > > > As I recall, the F is the wattage of the bulb. > > > > > > Lumens, not usually stated on the bulb is the > actual > > amount of light > > > coming from the bulb. It really does not have > anything > > to do with > > > watts, though more watts will give you more > lumens, > > but, also the > > > phosphors used in the bulb affect the amount of > lumen > > output. Lumens > > > and lux are often used interchangeably, but they > are > > really different > > > measurements. Lux is the measure of illumination > over > > a given area. It > > > may actually be more important to aquarists > raising > > plants than the > > > lumen output. Lux is what is measured by a light > > meter, for anyone who > > > happens to know what they are--not often seen > with > > today's cameras and > > > photographers. > > > > > > Color temperature is important. Average daylight > > (except may in > > > Amber's area where they have 6 months of > darkness) has > > a color > > > temperature of 5500-6000. > > > An overcast day can have a color temperature of > 6500. > > As mentioned > > > earlier, plants need light in two color > spectrums, > > and, actually they > > > are rather narrow spans of wavelengths they > benefit > > from. > > > > > > I thought I had a bookmark explaining this, but > I > > can't find it > > > quickly (over 400K of bookmarks, and things have > a > > tendency to get > > > lost), however, some judicial Googling will gain > you > > the information. > > > > > > \\Steve// > > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] > > > On > > > Behalf Of bill 1433 > > > Sent: Tuesday, November 10, 2009 10:20 PM > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: wisteria/lighting > > previous > > > question/response revisited > > > > > > Yes, Amber > > >   > > > It was I, looking for the original information > and > > also looked back on > > > \\Steve//'s post at group to try and find. Ray > had > > mentioned all this > > > the other day saying that he thought the posting > came > > from \\Steve//. > > >   > > > I was not successful in my search.  Also, for me > the > > most important > > > part was a link to a chart which showed you > exactly, > > or explained > > > exactly the "T" > > > factor stands for.  For instance, T-4 would be a > tube > > that is a half > > > inch wide, or close to it-----------I think.  > All > > this is my own > > > fault.  In my interest to acquire and learn > about > > lighting,I went > > > through and studied the applied links but being > > ol'bill, I never > > > bookmarked them. > > > Then to further > > > compound the problem, I deleted the original > message > > that it came > > > from.  In hind-sight you could probably chalk > this > > all up to felonious > > > stupidity on my part. > > >   > > > Bill---where its always a good day if I learn > > something new! > > > > > > --- On Tue, 11/10/09, Amber Berglund <arberglund@...> > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > From: Amber Berglund <arberglund@...> > > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: wisteria/lighting > > previous > > > question/response revisited > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > > Date: Tuesday, November 10, 2009, 9:30 PM > > > > > > > > > I believe it was Steve who posted a link about > lumens > > months back when > > > (I think it was maybe Bill asking) about lighting > for > > planted > > > aquariums. > > > Plants require 2 different spectrums of light to > > properly produce > > > either leaves or flowers (red is more for flower > > production and blue > > > is more for growth, but for the best growing you > want > > a mixture of > > > BOTH colors). > > > So in reality you would want a light that appears > more > > brown/reddish > > > in coloring and a blue/white coloring as well, > but > > they now have bulbs > > > that have BOTH spectrums built in (I'm sure they > don't > > work as well as > > > it would to have 2 different bulbs one mostly red > and > > the other mostly > > > blue on the color spectrum). > > > Let me see if I still have the link bookmarked. > > > What I was trying to say is that Kelvin does not > tell > > you what color > > > spectrum the light REALLY is, it's actually > measuring > > it's light > > > output color according to how the human eyes > perceive > > it. So 6500 > > > kelvin in general is what most plants will > prefer > > because that is a > > > mixture of both red and blue spectrums (In MOST > bulbs) > > unfortunately > > > not all light bulb manufactures have to use the > exact > > same chart for > > > their colors, so they will have different colors > than > > another bulb > > > that says it's 6500 Kelvin. what you really need > to > > read is the color > > > chart on the box, not what lumens it says it is. > > > (still searching for link, LOL). > > > > > > This isn't the right link but it discusses the > > kelvin/lumen problems a > > > little bit, still looking for the link that > showed the > > charts and what > > > to look for in the color charts. > > > http://www.americanaquariumproducts.com/Aquarium_Lighting.html > > > > > > Will post again when I find the other link with > chart > > examples. > > > > > > Amber > > > > > > > > > Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > > > > > > > > I think it would be false advertising or > > possibly > > > mis-advertising (if they > > > > do not know any better) if a company lists > their > > bulbs > > > as 6500K and they > > > > aren't. The Kelvin scale, just like Watts > and > > Lumens, > > > are ALL > > > > universal and > > > > scientifically measurable scales BUT, as I > > showed > > > below, not all 40 watt > > > > bulbs put out the same amount of light > (lumens) > > or in > > > the same color > > > > spectrum (Kelvin rating). All 40 watt > bulbs, > > whether > > > incandescent, > > > > fluorescent, CFL, LED, Halogen, etc.... ALL > use > > > only/around 40 watts of > > > > electricity but their light output can vary > > > dramatically. This is why > > > > fluorescent bulbs are so much more > efficient > > than > > > incandescent bulbs and > > > > CFL's are even more efficient... as a 40W > > fluorescent > > > bulb puts out a LOT > > > > more light (lumens) than a 40 watt > incandescent > > bulb > > > and a 40W CFL > > > > puts out > > > > more light (lumens) than a 40W fluorescent > bulb. > > This > > > is why the OLD > > > > "Watts > > > > Per Gallon" rule simply does not work any > more. > > > > > > > > BUT.. if three different companies are > selling > > > standard T-10 fluorescent > > > > bulbs with the same exact rating of 40W, > 3550 > > lumens > > > and 6500K > > > > rating... all > > > > three of those bulbs should be VERY SIMILAR > if > > not > > > identical in the > > > > way they > > > > appear to our eyes (subject to our own > degree of > > color > > > blindness, of > > > > course!) > > > > > > > > In the past, things like "soft white", > "warm > > white", > > > "daylight", "plant > > > > grow", etc., type terms were used and are > still > > used > > > but those are just > > > > simple words (not subject to a scientific > scale) > > to > > > describe the Kelvin > > > > rating ranges but lumens are just as > important > > since a > > > bulb could have a > > > > 6500K rating with only 2200 lumens where > another > > bulb > > > could have a 6500K > > > > rating and 3550 or 3700 lumens and that > bulb > > would put > > > out over 50% more > > > > light (lumens) in the same color spectrum > > (Kelvin > > > rating) so it would be a > > > > much more cost effective bulb if it cost > the > > same > > > amount or only a little > > > > more. > > > > > > > > I'm slightly confused about the "red and > blue > > light > > > for your plants" as > > > > those two colors are on opposite ends of > the > > Kelvin > > > Scale with reds and > > > > ambers in the lower numbers and greens and > blues > > in > > > the higher numbers. I > > > > think this is why you would want a > mid-range > > (5000K to > > > 6500K) bulb as > > > > those > > > > are generally considered "full spectrum" or > > "daylight" > > > bulbs. Here's a > > > > color picture of the Kelvin Scale, > > > > http://www.bltdirect.com/images/colour-temperature.jpg > > > > > > > <http://www.bltdirect.com/images/colour-temperature.jpg> > > > and you can > > > > visually > > > > see that the 5000K to 6500K range is all > about > > the > > > same "color". I think > > > > this is also why Actinic bulbs are usually > higher > > and > > > closer to the 10000K > > > > range and up... apparently, the Kelvin > lighting > > scale > > > can go up to 20,000K > > > > (according to this article about Reef Tanks > > > > > http://nh.craigslist.org/for/1423072406.html > > > > <http://nh.craigslist.org/for/1423072406.html> on, > > of > > > all places, > > > > Craigslist). > > > > Here is the page that that the above photo > link > > came > > > from and it has a > > > > chart > > > > that also explains things a little more also > and > > talks > > > about the CRI, yet > > > > another lighting term (Color Rendition > Index). > > > > http://www.bltdirect.com/lampColourTemperatures.php > > > > <http://www.bltdirect.com/lampColourTemperatures.php> > > > > > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> (Links > > to any articles referenced in > > > > above reply are > > > listed on the right > > > > side, alphabetically under Labels and also > under > > > Archives by Year, Month) > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On > > Behalf Of Amber Berglund > > > > Sent: Tuesday, November 10, 2009 4:22 PM > > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: > wisteria/lighting > > > previous > > > > question/response > > > > revisited > > > > > > > > Another thing to consider is one light > company's > > 6500 > > > kelvin rating > > > > may not > > > > be identical to another light bulb from a > > different > > > company that's > > > > rated the > > > > same. The important thing to look at is the > > color > > > chart they show on the > > > > boxes, you want more red and blue light for > your > > > plants, green is not > > > > useful > > > > or harmful as the plants reflect the light > back > > (makes > > > them appear more > > > > green but does nothing else for them). The > > kelvin > > > rating is based on our > > > > eyes and how they perceive color, so each > > company > > > doesn't have to be > > > > identical, perhaps some day they will have > a > > universal > > > way to measure > > > > light > > > > spectrums on bulbs that is much less > confusing. > > > > > > > > Amber > > > > > > > > Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > > > > > > > > > > OK. So you have a total of 80 watts > right > > now, > > > which is just over 1 > > > > > WPG, which means you only have enough > > lighting > > > for low-light, easy to > > > > > grow plants. See my blog article > "Planted > > Tank: > > > So You Want A Planted > > > > > Tank" for links to lists of low-light, > easy > > to > > > grow plants that will > > > > > do OK in your tank. You should replace > > those > > > tubes at least yearly... > > > > > although some say every six months. As > far > > as I > > > know, a 40W bulb is > > > > > the highest wattage made for this type > of > > > bulb/fixture right now but > > > > > you can increase your lighting > > > > > (lumens) and K (Kelvin) rating. See > below. > > > > > > > > > > NOTE - below links are for > > example/informational > > > purposes only, as I > > > > > know nothing about the sites. God... > did I > > just > > > say that? Do I really > > > > > have to add disclaimers to my posts > now? LOL > > Just > > > laughing at myself. > > > > > LOL > > > > > > > > > > This may be your Sylvania bulb... > > > > > http://www.lightbulbemporium.com/proddetail.asp?prod=F40/EX50 > > > > > > > <http://www.lightbulbemporium.com/proddetail.asp?prod=F40/EX50> > > > > > <http://www.lightbulbemporium.com/proddetail.asp?prod=F40/EX50 > > > > > > > <http://www.lightbulbemporium.com/proddetail.asp?prod=F40/EX50>> > > > and if > > > > > it is, then it's the same ratings as > the > > specs in > > > the T-10 bulb that I > > > > > copy/pasted below, which is a pretty > good > > bulb > > > with higher lumens and > > > > > the higher K rating, although not a > 6500K > > rated > > > bulb. At the bottom of > > > > > this page, there was a link to this > bulb... > > > > > > > > > http://www.lightbulbemporium.com/maxlite_51204_ml_f40t10_850_rscg.as > > > > p > > > > > > > <http://www.lightbulbemporium.com/maxlite_51204_ml_f40t10_850_rscg.a > > > > sp> > > > > > > > > > <http://www.lightbulbemporium.com/maxlite_51204_ml_f40t10_850_rscg.a > > > > sp > > > > > > > <http://www.lightbulbemporium.com/maxlite_51204_ml_f40t10_850_rscg.a > > > > sp> > > > > > > > > > > > which > > > > > has an even higher lumen rating of > 3700, > > although > > > not much higher than > > > > > the 3550 rating but every little bit > helps > > > especially since the > > > > > MaxLite bulb was a lower price than > the > > Sylvania > > > bulb. > > > > > > > > > > As you will see on this page > > > > > > > > > http://www.lightbulbsdirect.com/Merchant2/merchant.mvc?page=001/CTGY > > > > /F > > > > > > > <http://www.lightbulbsdirect.com/Merchant2/merchant.mvc?page=001/CTG > > > > Y/F> > > > > > S+Fluo > > > > > > > > > <http://www.lightbulbsdirect.com/Merchant2/merchant.mvc?page=001/CTG > > > > Y/ > > > > > > > <http://www.lightbulbsdirect.com/Merchant2/merchant.mvc?page=001/CTG > > > > Y/> > > > > > FS+Fluo> > > > > > rescent > > > > > > > > > > The second bulb down would be similar > to > > yours, > > > except we do not know > > > > > the lumen or color spectrum rating on > your > > bulb, > > > unless that link I > > > > > gave above is actually your bulb and > then > > it > > > would be the same as this > > > > > one. The specs on it are: > > > > > > > > > > T-10 Fluorescent > > > > > 40 Watts > > > > > Length: 48" > > > > > Medium Bi-Pin Base > > > > > Color: 5000K Temperature > > > > > Initial Lumens: 3550 > > > > > CRI: 84 > > > > > Average Life: 20,000 Hours > > > > > > > > > > The Color spectrum of 5000K (Kelvin) is > OK > > but > > > 6500K would be much > > > > better. > > > > > The Lumens of 3550 is the actual amount > of > > > *light* > > > > > > > > > > The next bulb down from that one is a > T-12, > > which > > > will also fit in > > > > > your fixture but they are bigger > diameter > > bulbs > > > and this one actually > > > > > puts out less light (lumens). Here are > the > > > specs: > > > > > > > > > > T-12 Fluorescent > > > > > 40 Watts > > > > > Length: 48" > > > > > Base: Medium Bi-Pin Base > > > > > Initial Lumens: 2200 > > > > > Average Life: 20,000 Hours > > > > > Color Temperature: 5000K > > > > > CRI: 92 > > > > > > > > > > It has the same Color spectrum but > only > > 2200 > > > lumens so the above T-10 > > > > > bulb has around 50% more lumens > (light) > > coming > > > out of it. > > > > > > > > > > Now, if you scroll down to the second > from > > the > > > bottom on the page, > > > > > you'll see the Verilux Instant-Sun > T-12 > > bulb > > > which has a higher Kelvin > > > > > rating but it doesn't list the lumens > so > > this > > > needs to be checked out > > > > > further. While the higher K rating is > good, > > if it > > > goes back down to > > > > > only 2200 lumens, instead of the 3550 > lumens > > of > > > the first referenced > > > > > bulb above, then I would probably go > with > > the > > > 3550 lumens, 5000K bulb > > > > > over the 6280K bulb if the lumens were > a > > LOT > > > less. > > > > > > > > > > (START SNIP) > > > > > Engineered to reproduce all the colors > and > > > balance of natural light, > > > > > VeriluxR full spectrum fluorescent > tubes > > feature > > > Trucolite Phosphor > > > > > TechnologyT which includes the use of > a > > stable, > > > custom blend of earth > > > > > phosphors that create bright, balanced > full > > > spectrum light. > > > > > T-12 Fluorescent > > > > > 40 Watts > > > > > Length: 48" > > > > > Color Temperature: 6280K > > > > > CRI: 94 > > > > > Medium Bi-Pin Base > > > > > (END SNIP) > > > > > > > > > > So, as you can see, there's a few > things to > > look > > > for when shopping for > > > > > new replacement bulbs. Look for the > 5000K > > to > > > 6500K bulbs with the > > > > > higher lumen rating for the dollar and > you > > should > > > be good. Note that a > > > > > 3550 or 3700 lumen bulb will put out > nearly > > twice > > > as much light as a > > > > > 2000 lumen bulb so it can be easy to > > increase > > > your lighting without > > > > > increasing the wattage. DO NOT try to > use HO > > or > > > VHO bulbs... which > > > > > look similar but have much higher > wattage, > > well > > > over the 40W bulbs you > > > > > now have. These other HO and VHO bulbs > have > > > different pin arrangements > > > > > so they will not fit in your fixture > anyhow > > but I > > > just wanted to save > > > > > you a trip. > > > > > > > > > > Last but not least, if you're handy, > you > > could > > > even take the bulbs out > > > > > of your fixtures and line the insides > of > > your > > > fixtures with nice and > > > > > crisp and flat aluminum foil (shiny > side > > exposed) > > > which will also > > > > > help. Using double stick tape and then > > carefully > > > applying the foil so > > > > > it does not wrinkle too much will work > > well... > > > especially if the > > > > > inside of your fixture is black. A > white > > > reflector is good but a > > > > > mirrored reflector, like that created > by > > the > > > shiny side of foil, is > > > > > MUCH better than a black reflector. > Most > > black > > > fixtures do at least > > > > > have white reflector areas. > > > > > > > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > > > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>> > > > > (Links to any articles referenced in > > > > > above reply are listed on the right > side, > > > alphabetically under Labels > > > > > and also under Archives by Year, > Month) > > > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On > > > Behalf Of erikaandnewton > > > > > Sent: Tuesday, November 10, 2009 10:17 > AM > > > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: > > wisteria/lighting > > > previous > > > > > question/response revisited > > > > > > > > > > << When you say "two strips" do > you > > have > > > two 4' long two-bulb fixtures > > > > > already or something else?>> > > > > > > > > > > i have two 4' single bulb strip > lights. > > > > > > > > > > >> What kind of lighting do you > > currently > > > have? Look at the bulbs and > > > > > >> there should be some kind of > > writing on > > > one of the ends. Give us > > > > > >> that info if you cannot > decipher > > it > > > yourself.<< > > > > > > > > > > one bulb is a f40 t10 > > > > > the other one is a sylvania daylight > bulb > > also > > > f40 > > > > > > > > > > >> It's probably 21" tall, since > a > > common > > > measurement for a 75G is > > > > > >> 48"x18"x21" Tall.>> > > > > > > > > > > it is 21 inches tall > > > > > > > > > > erika wilmington de usa > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ------------------------------------ > > > > > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it > when > > replying, Thank > > > You. > > > > > > ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> > > > ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , > .·´¯`·..><((((º> > > > PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT > that > > is NOT > > > important to the reply & if CHANGING the > TOPIC of > > the original message > > > MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject > (was > > re: old subject)" <- > > > > > > <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. > > > , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. > > > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this > matter. > > > > > > If you do not want all of the groups emails, > instead > > of unsubscribing, > > > you can change your delivery option by clicking > on > > "Edit My > > > Membership" on the home page. > > > > > > Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com > > > to receive the digest, which includes up to 25 > posts > > at a time in a > > > single email > > > > > > Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com > > > for the No E-Mail option where you will still be > able > > to read messages > > > on the group and post replies. > > > > > > Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com > > > to receive individual e-mails.Yahoo! Groups > Links > > > > > > > > >     AquaticLife-fullfeatured@yahoogroups.com > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >       > > > > > > ------------------------------------ > > > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when > > replying, Thank You. > > > ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> > > ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> > > PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that > is > > NOT important to > > the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original > > message MODIFY the SUBJECT > > LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" > <- > > > <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. > > , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. > > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. > > > > If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead > of > > unsubscribing, you > > can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit > My > > Membership" on the > > home page.  > > > > Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com > > to receive the digest, which > > includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email > > > > Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com > > for the No E-Mail option where > > you will still be able to read messages on the group > and > > post replies. > > > > Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com > > to receive individual > > e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > > > > > > > ------------------------------------ > > > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when > > replying, Thank You. > > > ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> > > ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> > > PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that > is > > NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC > of > > the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> > i.e. "new > > subject (was re: old subject)" <- > > > <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. > > , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. > > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. > > > > If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead > of > > unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by > > clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the home page.  > > > > Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com > > to receive the digest, which includes up to 25 posts > at a > > time in a single email > > > > Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com > > for the No E-Mail option where you will still be able > to > > read messages on the group and post replies. > > > > Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com > > to receive individual e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > >     AquaticLife-fullfeatured@yahoogroups.com > > > > > > > > >       > > > ------------------------------------ > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when > replying, Thank You. > ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> > ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> > PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is > NOT important to > the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original > message MODIFY the SUBJECT > LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- > <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. > , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. > > If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of > unsubscribing, you > can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My > Membership" on the > home page.  > > Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com > to receive the digest, which > includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email > > Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com > for the No E-Mail option where > you will still be able to read messages on the group and > post replies. > > Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com > to receive individual > e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > ------------------------------------ > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when > replying, Thank You. > ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> > ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> > PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is > NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of > the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new > subject (was re: old subject)" <- > <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. > , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. > > If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of > unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by > clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the home page.  > > Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com > to receive the digest, which includes up to 25 posts at a > time in a single email > > Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com > for the No E-Mail option where you will still be able to > read messages on the group and post replies. > > Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com > to receive individual e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links > > >     AquaticLife-fullfeatured@yahoogroups.com > > > ------------------------------------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the home page. Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com to receive the digest, which includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com for the No E-Mail option where you will still be able to read messages on the group and post replies. Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com to receive individual e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 44449	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 11/12/2009
Subject: Re: wisteria/lighting previous question/response revisited

Bill has smaller bulbs, I think they are not easy to find in a higher wattage output, which is what he was looking for a few months back. Amber Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > > I don't know what you mean by this. Please elaborate. What size tube? I > posted about several different bulbs but all were T-12's, which is one of > the most common sizes. > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right > side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) > > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On > Behalf Of bill 1433 > Sent: Thursday, November 12, 2009 8:59 AM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: wisteria/lighting previous > question/response > revisited > > Yes Len, > > But its finding that size tube with more of anything that's the problem. > > Bill > > --- On Wed, 11/11/09, Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@... > <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com>> wrote: > > > From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@... > <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com>> > > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: wisteria/lighting previous > > question/response revisited > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > Date: Wednesday, November 11, 2009, 5:22 PM Well, if you only have > > 17W, then you could definitely do better with the 20W, higher lumen, > > better K rating bulbs that I mentioned. Considering the lumen ratings > > of fluorescent bulbs I've looked at, your 17W bulbs might only have > > 500-700 lumens where the BEST 20W bulb (below) has > > 1075 lumens so you > > could possibly increase your lighting by 50% to 100% just by changing > > to that bulb. At least, with that bulb, you'll be in the low-light > > range for plants on the 20G but the 29G will need some work. > > > > Of course, you should find out what the lumens and K ratings are on > > the bulbs you have so you'll know if you are getting a small jump or a > > BIG jump in lighting just by changing your bulbs. Check your local > > WalMart for bulbs. My nearby WalMart SuperCenter has a really big > > assortment of fluorescent tubes and they were cheaper than the Home > > Depot. > > > > Something else I'm thinking about for you is going with 18" > > light-sticks on > > each end of your 29G tank or front or back (back would hide it best > > but you decide your best aesthetics) and you'd have to make a DIY > > reflector for it (white poster board and scotch tape would work) and > > that would get more lighting down to the bottom level plants in the > > 29G. > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> (Links to any articles > > referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically > > under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] > > On > > Behalf Of bill 1433 > > Sent: Wednesday, November 11, 2009 3:42 PM > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: wisteria/lighting previous > > question/response > > revisited > > > > It is what it is type of thing Len. Site says one > > thing but stamped or > > printed right on the tube is at 17 watts. > > > > Bill > > > > --- On Wed, 11/11/09, Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@... > <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com>> > > wrote: > > > > > From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@... > <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com>> > > > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: wisteria/lighting > > previous > > > question/response revisited > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > Date: Wednesday, November 11, 2009, 2:16 PM The > > problem might be this > > > statement in the description... > > > > > > "... Hoods include 8000ºK bulb... ...20W, 24"..." > > > > > > That's getting into the higher green/blue Kelvin > > range... > > > closer to the > > > 10,000K actinic type bulbs... than the 5000K to 6500K > > "Daylight" bulbs > > > that provide full spectrum lighting. It's also only > > a 20W bulb > > > (according to the DFS site, although you stated it was > > only 17W so > > > double check this) so it's only 1WPG on the 20G and > > only 0.69WPG on > > > the 29G. Of course, if the bulb puts out a LOT more > > lumens (you would > > > have to do more checking up on the bulb to find this), > > that would help > > > a little but not much. I think you need at least > > 1WPG to have success > > > with low-light plants, although floating plants like > > Anacharis, > > > Hornwort, Duckweed, etc., would be up close to the > > light and benefit > > > from CO2 from the air and would do OK with your > > lighting... but then > > > they would also block out the lighting to the rest of > > the tank. > > > > > > I don't see a lot of options, as far as T-8 bulbs are > > concerned for > > > this size fixture but I see a few different T-12's... > > such as... > > > > > > (My rating is: GOOD - but see BETTER and BEST options > > below... at > > > least as far as the bulbs on this site are concerned) > > > > > > > http://www.servicelighting.com/Sylvania-22119-F20T12-DSGN50-T12-Straig > <http://www.servicelighting.com/Sylvania-22119-F20T12-DSGN50-T12-Straig> > > > ht-Lin > > > ear-Fluorescent-Light-Bulb > > > > > > Light Output: 880 lumens > > > Refers to the literal measure of the light-output of a > > particular > > > light bulb, measured in the number of lumens. > > > > > > Energy Used: 20 watts > > > "Watts" is the term applied to the amount of energy > > required and used > > > by a particular light bulb. It is an international > > system unit of > > > power equal to one joule per second. Contrary to > > popular belief, the > > > wattage of a bulb does not directly measure the > > brightness; the > > > "lumens" of a light is what defines the actual light > > output. > > > > > > Average Lifetime: 9,000 hours > > > This refers to an average lifetime rating based on > > large quantities in > > > test groups. This testing takes into account usage of > > 3 hours per > > > start for fluorescent lamps and 10 hours per start for > > HID lamps. > > > > > > Bulb Type: T12 > > > The "Bulb Type" is typically a combination of the > > style of bulb as > > > well as the width of the bulb. Usually, the first > > couple letters will > > > indicate the type; "G" would indicate "Globe", "PAR" > > would indicate > > > "Parabolic Reflector"... The numbers indicate the > > diameter of the > > > light bulb in eighths of an inch; a "G40" would be a > > "Globe" style > > > that is "5 inches" in diameter. > > > > > > > > > Base Type: Medium Bi-Pin > > > The "Base" of a light bulb is the part that either > > screws or snaps > > > into a receptacle. Base Type terminology may indicate > > common > > > descriptive words like "Medium" or "Candelabra", or > > may even contain > > > numeric codes that signify size and variety, like > > "E26" or "2GX13". > > > > > > Color Temperature: 5,000K > > > Correlated Color Temperature (CCT) is a specification > > of the color > > > appearance of a lamp, relating its color to that of a > > reference source > > > heated to a particular temperature, measured in > > degrees Kelvin (K). It > > > generally measures the "warmth" or "coolness" of light > > source > > > appearance. > > > > > > CRI: 90 > > > CRI refers to the "Color Rendering Index" of a light > > bulb. > > > CRI measures a > > > light source and grades its ability to render the > > color of objects > > > "correctly," as compared with a reference source with > > comparable color > > > temperature. 100 is perfect rendering. > > > > > > Length: 24 inches > > > > > > > > > (BETTER - slightly higher lumens and higher 6500K > > rating) > > > > > > > http://www.servicelighting.com/Westinghouse-36516-F20T12-FS-T12-Straig > <http://www.servicelighting.com/Westinghouse-36516-F20T12-FS-T12-Straig> > > > ht-Lin > > > ear-Fluorescent-Light-Bulb > > > > > > Light Output: 900 lumens > > > Energy Used: 20 watts > > > Average Lifetime: 10,000 hours > > > Bulb Type: T12 > > > Base Type: Medium Bi-Pin > > > Color Temperature: 6,500K > > > CRI: 90 > > > Length: 24 inches > > > > > > > > > > > > (BEST, of these three - around 20% higher lumens and > > good 6,500K > > > rating, although it does have a lower CRI rating.. but > > still > > > passing) > > > > > > > http://www.servicelighting.com/Sylvania-22083-F20T12-D-T12-Straight-Li > <http://www.servicelighting.com/Sylvania-22083-F20T12-D-T12-Straight-Li> > > > near-F > > > luorescent-Light-Bulb > > > > > > Light Output: 1,075 lumens > > > Energy Used: 20 watts > > > Average Lifetime: 9,000 hours > > > Bulb Type: T12 > > > Base Type: Medium Bi-Pin > > > Color Temperature: 6,500K > > > CRI: 76 > > > Length: 24 inches > > > > > > Compare the above three to what is sold as a > > plant/aquarium light by > > > the same company, which has a lower lumens, MUCH lower > > CRI rating and > > > does not list the K rating other than to say "Plant" > > which is a > > > subjective rating established by the manufacturer. > > > > > > (WORST) > > > > > > > http://www.servicelighting.com/Westinghouse-36411-F20T12-PL-T12-Straig > <http://www.servicelighting.com/Westinghouse-36411-F20T12-PL-T12-Straig> > > > ht-Lin > > > ear-Fluorescent-Light-Bulb > > > > > > Light Output: 700 lumens (over 30% less lighting > > than the 1,075 > > > lumens bulb > > > above) > > > Energy Used: 20 watts > > > Average Lifetime: 10,000 hours > > > Bulb Type: T12 > > > Base Type: Medium Bi-Pin > > > Color: Plant > > > CRI: 61 > > > Length: 24 inches > > > > > > If any of the above have much better lumens than your > > current > > > lighting... > > > and they all have better K ratings, then any of them > > would be better > > > for you... but you would still be stuck with only 20 > > watts but it's > > > the LUMENS and K rating that count more than watts. > > You need to find > > > out the lumens on your bulb. Try to find it on the > > DFS site and let > > > us know. > > > > > > You should look at the AHSupply.com place for a > > retrofit kit so you > > > can use CFL's in your current hood. That would > > probably be your least > > > expensive option. I know you don't like electricity > > but I'm sure you > > > know someone that could do this for you... on the > > cheap... or over a > > > 6-pack. > > > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> (Links to > > any articles > > > referenced in above reply are listed on the right > > side, alphabetically > > > under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) > > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] > > > On > > > Behalf Of bill 1433 > > > Sent: Wednesday, November 11, 2009 9:33 AM > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: wisteria/lighting > > previous > > > question/response > > > revisited > > > > > > Hi \\Steve// > > > > > > At this point, and also to refresh your mind, and > > anyone > > > else on the group > > > that may have interest. This all got started with > > my > > > search for a tube that > > > would allow me more light output from an All Glass > > Plastic > > > hood and light. > > > This unit comes with a "color type tube at 17 watts > > that is > > > only 24 inches > > > long. This is for a 20/29-gallon tank. I was > > > stupid enough to buy two of > > > them, one for each tank. For further inspection > > here > > > is the light: > > > > > > > http://www.drsfostersmith.com/product/prod_display.cfm?pcatid=13447 > <http://www.drsfostersmith.com/product/prod_display.cfm?pcatid=13447> > > > > > > For those that would like to aggravate themselves > > further, > > > I can also state > > > that these hoods are very conducive to growing Black > > > Algae! > > > > > > Summoning up, I should have only purchased an > > All-Glass > > > cover and then > > > probably a double tube light of sufficient wattage to > > bring > > > me up to the > > > recommended 2 or 3 watts per gallon. > > > > > > Ya live and learn, > > > > > > Bill > > > > > > > > > --- On Tue, 11/10/09, Steve Szabo <steve@... > <mailto:steve%40familyszabo.com>> > > > wrote: > > > > > > > From: Steve Szabo <steve@... > <mailto:steve%40familyszabo.com>> > > > > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: wisteria/lighting > > > previous > > > > question/response revisited > > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > Date: Tuesday, November 10, 2009, 11:50 PM Bill, > > you > > > got it right! The > > > > T numbers represent the diameter of the bulb in > > 1/8" > > > increments. A T4 > > > > is a bulb 1/2" in diameter, T5 is 5/8", t8 is > > 1" and > > > a t12 is 1 1/2". > > > > As I recall, the F is the wattage of the bulb. > > > > > > > > Lumens, not usually stated on the bulb is the > > actual > > > amount of light > > > > coming from the bulb. It really does not have > > anything > > > to do with > > > > watts, though more watts will give you more > > lumens, > > > but, also the > > > > phosphors used in the bulb affect the amount of > > lumen > > > output. Lumens > > > > and lux are often used interchangeably, but they > > are > > > really different > > > > measurements. Lux is the measure of illumination > > over > > > a given area. It > > > > may actually be more important to aquarists > > raising > > > plants than the > > > > lumen output. Lux is what is measured by a light > > > meter, for anyone who > > > > happens to know what they are--not often seen > > with > > > today's cameras and > > > > photographers. > > > > > > > > Color temperature is important. Average daylight > > > (except may in > > > > Amber's area where they have 6 months of > > darkness) has > > > a color > > > > temperature of 5500-6000. > > > > An overcast day can have a color temperature of > > 6500. > > > As mentioned > > > > earlier, plants need light in two color > > spectrums, > > > and, actually they > > > > are rather narrow spans of wavelengths they > > benefit > > > from. > > > > > > > > I thought I had a bookmark explaining this, but > > I > > > can't find it > > > > quickly (over 400K of bookmarks, and things have > > a > > > tendency to get > > > > lost), however, some judicial Googling will gain > > you > > > the information. > > > > > > > > \\Steve// > > > > > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] > > > > On > > > > Behalf Of bill 1433 > > > > Sent: Tuesday, November 10, 2009 10:20 PM > > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: wisteria/lighting > > > previous > > > > question/response revisited > > > > > > > > Yes, Amber > > > > > > > > It was I, looking for the original information > > and > > > also looked back on > > > > \\Steve//'s post at group to try and find. Ray > > had > > > mentioned all this > > > > the other day saying that he thought the posting > > came > > > from \\Steve//. > > > > > > > > I was not successful in my search. Also, for me > > the > > > most important > > > > part was a link to a chart which showed you > > exactly, > > > or explained > > > > exactly the "T" > > > > factor stands for. For instance, T-4 would be a > > tube > > > that is a half > > > > inch wide, or close to it-----------I think. > > All > > > this is my own > > > > fault. In my interest to acquire and learn > > about > > > lighting,I went > > > > through and studied the applied links but being > > > ol'bill, I never > > > > bookmarked them. > > > > Then to further > > > > compound the problem, I deleted the original > > message > > > that it came > > > > from. In hind-sight you could probably chalk > > this > > > all up to felonious > > > > stupidity on my part. > > > > > > > > Bill---where its always a good day if I learn > > > something new! > > > > > > > > --- On Tue, 11/10/09, Amber Berglund <arberglund@... > <mailto:arberglund%40gmail.com>> > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > From: Amber Berglund <arberglund@... > <mailto:arberglund%40gmail.com>> > > > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: wisteria/lighting > > > previous > > > > question/response revisited > > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > Date: Tuesday, November 10, 2009, 9:30 PM > > > > > > > > > > > > I believe it was Steve who posted a link about > > lumens > > > months back when > > > > (I think it was maybe Bill asking) about lighting > > for > > > planted > > > > aquariums. > > > > Plants require 2 different spectrums of light to > > > properly produce > > > > either leaves or flowers (red is more for flower > > > production and blue > > > > is more for growth, but for the best growing you > > want > > > a mixture of > > > > BOTH colors). > > > > So in reality you would want a light that appears > > more > > > brown/reddish > > > > in coloring and a blue/white coloring as well, > > but > > > they now have bulbs > > > > that have BOTH spectrums built in (I'm sure they > > don't > > > work as well as > > > > it would to have 2 different bulbs one mostly red > > and > > > the other mostly > > > > blue on the color spectrum). > > > > Let me see if I still have the link bookmarked. > > > > What I was trying to say is that Kelvin does not > > tell > > > you what color > > > > spectrum the light REALLY is, it's actually > > measuring > > > it's light > > > > output color according to how the human eyes > > perceive > > > it. So 6500 > > > > kelvin in general is what most plants will > > prefer > > > because that is a > > > > mixture of both red and blue spectrums (In MOST > > bulbs) > > > unfortunately > > > > not all light bulb manufactures have to use the > > exact > > > same chart for > > > > their colors, so they will have different colors > > than > > > another bulb > > > > that says it's 6500 Kelvin. what you really need > > to > > > read is the color > > > > chart on the box, not what lumens it says it is. > > > > (still searching for link, LOL). > > > > > > > > This isn't the right link but it discusses the > > > kelvin/lumen problems a > > > > little bit, still looking for the link that > > showed the > > > charts and what > > > > to look for in the color charts. > > > > http://www.americanaquariumproducts.com/Aquarium_Lighting.html > <http://www.americanaquariumproducts.com/Aquarium_Lighting.html> > > > > > > > > Will post again when I find the other link with > > chart > > > examples. > > > > > > > > Amber > > > > > > > > > > > > Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > > > > > > > > > > I think it would be false advertising or > > > possibly > > > > mis-advertising (if they > > > > > do not know any better) if a company lists > > their > > > bulbs > > > > as 6500K and they > > > > > aren't. The Kelvin scale, just like Watts > > and > > > Lumens, > > > > are ALL > > > > > universal and > > > > > scientifically measurable scales BUT, as I > > > showed > > > > below, not all 40 watt > > > > > bulbs put out the same amount of light > > (lumens) > > > or in > > > > the same color > > > > > spectrum (Kelvin rating). All 40 watt > > bulbs, > > > whether > > > > incandescent, > > > > > fluorescent, CFL, LED, Halogen, etc.... ALL > > use > > > > only/around 40 watts of > > > > > electricity but their light output can vary > > > > dramatically. This is why > > > > > fluorescent bulbs are so much more > > efficient > > > than > > > > incandescent bulbs and > > > > > CFL's are even more efficient... as a 40W > > > fluorescent > > > > bulb puts out a LOT > > > > > more light (lumens) than a 40 watt > > incandescent > > > bulb > > > > and a 40W CFL > > > > > puts out > > > > > more light (lumens) than a 40W fluorescent > > bulb. > > > This > > > > is why the OLD > > > > > "Watts > > > > > Per Gallon" rule simply does not work any > > more. > > > > > > > > > > BUT.. if three different companies are > > selling > > > > standard T-10 fluorescent > > > > > bulbs with the same exact rating of 40W, > > 3550 > > > lumens > > > > and 6500K > > > > > rating... all > > > > > three of those bulbs should be VERY SIMILAR > > if > > > not > > > > identical in the > > > > > way they > > > > > appear to our eyes (subject to our own > > degree of > > > color > > > > blindness, of > > > > > course!) > > > > > > > > > > In the past, things like "soft white", > > "warm > > > white", > > > > "daylight", "plant > > > > > grow", etc., type terms were used and are > > still > > > used > > > > but those are just > > > > > simple words (not subject to a scientific > > scale) > > > to > > > > describe the Kelvin > > > > > rating ranges but lumens are just as > > important > > > since a > > > > bulb could have a > > > > > 6500K rating with only 2200 lumens where > > another > > > bulb > > > > could have a 6500K > > > > > rating and 3550 or 3700 lumens and that > > bulb > > > would put > > > > out over 50% more > > > > > light (lumens) in the same color spectrum > > > (Kelvin > > > > rating) so it would be a > > > > > much more cost effective bulb if it cost > > the > > > same > > > > amount or only a little > > > > > more. > > > > > > > > > > I'm slightly confused about the "red and > > blue > > > light > > > > for your plants" as > > > > > those two colors are on opposite ends of > > the > > > Kelvin > > > > Scale with reds and > > > > > ambers in the lower numbers and greens and > > blues > > > in > > > > the higher numbers. I > > > > > think this is why you would want a > > mid-range > > > (5000K to > > > > 6500K) bulb as > > > > > those > > > > > are generally considered "full spectrum" or > > > "daylight" > > > > bulbs. Here's a > > > > > color picture of the Kelvin Scale, > > > > > http://www.bltdirect.com/images/colour-temperature.jpg > <http://www.bltdirect.com/images/colour-temperature.jpg> > > > > > > > > > <http://www.bltdirect.com/images/colour-temperature.jpg > <http://www.bltdirect.com/images/colour-temperature.jpg>> > > > > and you can > > > > > visually > > > > > see that the 5000K to 6500K range is all > > about > > > the > > > > same "color". I think > > > > > this is also why Actinic bulbs are usually > > higher > > > and > > > > closer to the 10000K > > > > > range and up... apparently, the Kelvin > > lighting > > > scale > > > > can go up to 20,000K > > > > > (according to this article about Reef Tanks > > > > > > > http://nh.craigslist.org/for/1423072406.html > <http://nh.craigslist.org/for/1423072406.html> > > > > > <http://nh.craigslist.org/for/1423072406.html > <http://nh.craigslist.org/for/1423072406.html>> on, > > > of > > > > all places, > > > > > Craigslist). > > > > > Here is the page that that the above photo > > link > > > came > > > > from and it has a > > > > > chart > > > > > that also explains things a little more also > > and > > > talks > > > > about the CRI, yet > > > > > another lighting term (Color Rendition > > Index). > > > > > http://www.bltdirect.com/lampColourTemperatures.php > <http://www.bltdirect.com/lampColourTemperatures.php> > > > > > <http://www.bltdirect.com/lampColourTemperatures.php > <http://www.bltdirect.com/lampColourTemperatures.php>> > > > > > > > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > > > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>> (Links > > > to any articles referenced in > > > > > above reply are > > > > listed on the right > > > > > side, alphabetically under Labels and also > > under > > > > Archives by Year, Month) > > > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On > > > Behalf Of Amber Berglund > > > > > Sent: Tuesday, November 10, 2009 4:22 PM > > > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: > > wisteria/lighting > > > > previous > > > > > question/response > > > > > revisited > > > > > > > > > > Another thing to consider is one light > > company's > > > 6500 > > > > kelvin rating > > > > > may not > > > > > be identical to another light bulb from a > > > different > > > > company that's > > > > > rated the > > > > > same. The important thing to look at is the > > > color > > > > chart they show on the > > > > > boxes, you want more red and blue light for > > your > > > > plants, green is not > > > > > useful > > > > > or harmful as the plants reflect the light > > back > > > (makes > > > > them appear more > > > > > green but does nothing else for them). The > > > kelvin > > > > rating is based on our > > > > > eyes and how they perceive color, so each > > > company > > > > doesn't have to be > > > > > identical, perhaps some day they will have > > a > > > universal > > > > way to measure > > > > > light > > > > > spectrums on bulbs that is much less > > confusing. > > > > > > > > > > Amber > > > > > > > > > > Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > OK. So you have a total of 80 watts > > right > > > now, > > > > which is just over 1 > > > > > > WPG, which means you only have enough > > > lighting > > > > for low-light, easy to > > > > > > grow plants. See my blog article > > "Planted > > > Tank: > > > > So You Want A Planted > > > > > > Tank" for links to lists of low-light, > > easy > > > to > > > > grow plants that will > > > > > > do OK in your tank. You should replace > > > those > > > > tubes at least yearly... > > > > > > although some say every six months. As > > far > > > as I > > > > know, a 40W bulb is > > > > > > the highest wattage made for this type > > of > > > > bulb/fixture right now but > > > > > > you can increase your lighting > > > > > > (lumens) and K (Kelvin) rating. See > > below. > > > > > > > > > > > > NOTE - below links are for > > > example/informational > > > > purposes only, as I > > > > > > know nothing about the sites. God... > > did I > > > just > > > > say that? Do I really > > > > > > have to add disclaimers to my posts > > now? LOL > > > Just > > > > laughing at myself. > > > > > > LOL > > > > > > > > > > > > This may be your Sylvania bulb... > > > > > > > http://www.lightbulbemporium.com/proddetail.asp?prod=F40/EX50 > <http://www.lightbulbemporium.com/proddetail.asp?prod=F40/EX50> > > > > > > > > > <http://www.lightbulbemporium.com/proddetail.asp?prod=F40/EX50 > <http://www.lightbulbemporium.com/proddetail.asp?prod=F40/EX50>> > > > > > > > <http://www.lightbulbemporium.com/proddetail.asp?prod=F40/EX50 > <http://www.lightbulbemporium.com/proddetail.asp?prod=F40/EX50> > > > > > > > > > <http://www.lightbulbemporium.com/proddetail.asp?prod=F40/EX50 > <http://www.lightbulbemporium.com/proddetail.asp?prod=F40/EX50>>> > > > > and if > > > > > > it is, then it's the same ratings as > > the > > > specs in > > > > the T-10 bulb that I > > > > > > copy/pasted below, which is a pretty > > good > > > bulb > > > > with higher lumens and > > > > > > the higher K rating, although not a > > 6500K > > > rated > > > > bulb. At the bottom of > > > > > > this page, there was a link to this > > bulb... > > > > > > > > > > > > http://www.lightbulbemporium.com/maxlite_51204_ml_f40t10_850_rscg.as > <http://www.lightbulbemporium.com/maxlite_51204_ml_f40t10_850_rscg.as> > > > > > p > > > > > > > > > > <http://www.lightbulbemporium.com/maxlite_51204_ml_f40t10_850_rscg.a > <http://www.lightbulbemporium.com/maxlite_51204_ml_f40t10_850_rscg.a> > > > > > sp> > > > > > > > > > > > > <http://www.lightbulbemporium.com/maxlite_51204_ml_f40t10_850_rscg.a > <http://www.lightbulbemporium.com/maxlite_51204_ml_f40t10_850_rscg.a> > > > > > sp > > > > > > > > > > <http://www.lightbulbemporium.com/maxlite_51204_ml_f40t10_850_rscg.a > <http://www.lightbulbemporium.com/maxlite_51204_ml_f40t10_850_rscg.a> > > > > > sp> > > > > > > > > > > > > > which > > > > > > has an even higher lumen rating of > > 3700, > > > although > > > > not much higher than > > > > > > the 3550 rating but every little bit > > helps > > > > especially since the > > > > > > MaxLite bulb was a lower price than > > the > > > Sylvania > > > > bulb. > > > > > > > > > > > > As you will see on this page > > > > > > > > > > > > http://www.lightbulbsdirect.com/Merchant2/merchant.mvc?page=001/CTGY > <http://www.lightbulbsdirect.com/Merchant2/merchant.mvc?page=001/CTGY> > > > > > /F > > > > > > > > > > <http://www.lightbulbsdirect.com/Merchant2/merchant.mvc?page=001/CTG > <http://www.lightbulbsdirect.com/Merchant2/merchant.mvc?page=001/CTG> > > > > > Y/F> > > > > > > S+Fluo > > > > > > > > > > > > <http://www.lightbulbsdirect.com/Merchant2/merchant.mvc?page=001/CTG > <http://www.lightbulbsdirect.com/Merchant2/merchant.mvc?page=001/CTG> > > > > > Y/ > > > > > > > > > > <http://www.lightbulbsdirect.com/Merchant2/merchant.mvc?page=001/CTG > <http://www.lightbulbsdirect.com/Merchant2/merchant.mvc?page=001/CTG> > > > > > Y/> > > > > > > FS+Fluo> > > > > > > rescent > > > > > > > > > > > > The second bulb down would be similar > > to > > > yours, > > > > except we do not know > > > > > > the lumen or color spectrum rating on > > your > > > bulb, > > > > unless that link I > > > > > > gave above is actually your bulb and > > then > > > it > > > > would be the same as this > > > > > > one. The specs on it are: > > > > > > > > > > > > T-10 Fluorescent > > > > > > 40 Watts > > > > > > Length: 48" > > > > > > Medium Bi-Pin Base > > > > > > Color: 5000K Temperature > > > > > > Initial Lumens: 3550 > > > > > > CRI: 84 > > > > > > Average Life: 20,000 Hours > > > > > > > > > > > > The Color spectrum of 5000K (Kelvin) is > > OK > > > but > > > > 6500K would be much > > > > > better. > > > > > > The Lumens of 3550 is the actual amount > > of > > > > *light* > > > > > > > > > > > > The next bulb down from that one is a > > T-12, > > > which > > > > will also fit in > > > > > > your fixture but they are bigger > > diameter > > > bulbs > > > > and this one actually > > > > > > puts out less light (lumens). Here are > > the > > > > specs: > > > > > > > > > > > > T-12 Fluorescent > > > > > > 40 Watts > > > > > > Length: 48" > > > > > > Base: Medium Bi-Pin Base > > > > > > Initial Lumens: 2200 > > > > > > Average Life: 20,000 Hours > > > > > > Color Temperature: 5000K > > > > > > CRI: 92 > > > > > > > > > > > > It has the same Color spectrum but > > only > > > 2200 > > > > lumens so the above T-10 > > > > > > bulb has around 50% more lumens > > (light) > > > coming > > > > out of it. > > > > > > > > > > > > Now, if you scroll down to the second > > from > > > the > > > > bottom on the page, > > > > > > you'll see the Verilux Instant-Sun > > T-12 > > > bulb > > > > which has a higher Kelvin > > > > > > rating but it doesn't list the lumens > > so > > > this > > > > needs to be checked out > > > > > > further. While the higher K rating is > > good, > > > if it > > > > goes back down to > > > > > > only 2200 lumens, instead of the 3550 > > lumens > > > of > > > > the first referenced > > > > > > bulb above, then I would probably go > > with > > > the > > > > 3550 lumens, 5000K bulb > > > > > > over the 6280K bulb if the lumens were > > a > > > LOT > > > > less. > > > > > > > > > > > > (START SNIP) > > > > > > Engineered to reproduce all the colors > > and > > > > balance of natural light, > > > > > > VeriluxR full spectrum fluorescent > > tubes > > > feature > > > > Trucolite Phosphor > > > > > > TechnologyT which includes the use of > > a > > > stable, > > > > custom blend of earth > > > > > > phosphors that create bright, balanced > > full > > > > spectrum light. > > > > > > T-12 Fluorescent > > > > > > 40 Watts > > > > > > Length: 48" > > > > > > Color Temperature: 6280K > > > > > > CRI: 94 > > > > > > Medium Bi-Pin Base > > > > > > (END SNIP) > > > > > > > > > > > > So, as you can see, there's a few > > things to > > > look > > > > for when shopping for > > > > > > new replacement bulbs. Look for the > > 5000K > > > to > > > > 6500K bulbs with the > > > > > > higher lumen rating for the dollar and > > you > > > should > > > > be good. Note that a > > > > > > 3550 or 3700 lumen bulb will put out > > nearly > > > twice > > > > as much light as a > > > > > > 2000 lumen bulb so it can be easy to > > > increase > > > > your lighting without > > > > > > increasing the wattage. DO NOT try to > > use HO > > > or > > > > VHO bulbs... which > > > > > > look similar but have much higher > > wattage, > > > well > > > > over the 40W bulbs you > > > > > > now have. These other HO and VHO bulbs > > have > > > > different pin arrangements > > > > > > so they will not fit in your fixture > > anyhow > > > but I > > > > just wanted to save > > > > > > you a trip. > > > > > > > > > > > > Last but not least, if you're handy, > > you > > > could > > > > even take the bulbs out > > > > > > of your fixtures and line the insides > > of > > > your > > > > fixtures with nice and > > > > > > crisp and flat aluminum foil (shiny > > side > > > exposed) > > > > which will also > > > > > > help. Using double stick tape and then > > > carefully > > > > applying the foil so > > > > > > it does not wrinkle too much will work > > > well... > > > > especially if the > > > > > > inside of your fixture is black. A > > white > > > > reflector is good but a > > > > > > mirrored reflector, like that created > > by > > > the > > > > shiny side of foil, is > > > > > > MUCH better than a black reflector. > > Most > > > black > > > > fixtures do at least > > > > > > have white reflector areas. > > > > > > > > > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > > > > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>> > > > > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>>> > > > > > (Links to any articles referenced in > > > > > > above reply are listed on the right > > side, > > > > alphabetically under Labels > > > > > > and also under Archives by Year, > > Month) > > > > > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > > > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On > > > > Behalf Of erikaandnewton > > > > > > Sent: Tuesday, November 10, 2009 10:17 > > AM > > > > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: > > > wisteria/lighting > > > > previous > > > > > > question/response revisited > > > > > > > > > > > > << When you say "two strips" do > > you > > > have > > > > two 4' long two-bulb fixtures > > > > > > already or something else?>> > > > > > > > > > > > > i have two 4' single bulb strip > > lights. > > > > > > > > > > > > >> What kind of lighting do you > > > currently > > > > have? Look at the bulbs and > > > > > > >> there should be some kind of > > > writing on > > > > one of the ends. Give us > > > > > > >> that info if you cannot > > decipher > > > it > > > > yourself.<< > > > > > > > > > > > > one bulb is a f40 t10 > > > > > > the other one is a sylvania daylight > > bulb > > > also > > > > f40 > > > > > > > > > > > > >> It's probably 21" tall, since > > a > > > common > > > > measurement for a 75G is > > > > > > >> 48"x18"x21" Tall.>> > > > > > > > > > > > > it is 21 inches tall > > > > > > > > > > > > erika wilmington de usa > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ------------------------------------ > > > > > > > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it > > when > > > replying, Thank > > > > You. > > > > > > > > > ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> > > > > ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , > > .·´¯`·..><((((º> > > > > PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT > > that > > > is NOT > > > > important to the reply & if CHANGING the > > TOPIC of > > > the original message > > > > MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject > > (was > > > re: old subject)" <- > > > > > > > > > <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. > > > > , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. > > > > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this > > matter. > > > > > > > > If you do not want all of the groups emails, > > instead > > > of unsubscribing, > > > > you can change your delivery option by clicking > > on > > > "Edit My > > > > Membership" on the home page. > > > > > > > > Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:aquaticlife-digest%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > to receive the digest, which includes up to 25 > > posts > > > at a time in a > > > > single email > > > > > > > > Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:aquaticlife-nomail%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > for the No E-Mail option where you will still be > > able > > > to read messages > > > > on the group and post replies. > > > > > > > > Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:aquaticlife-normal%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > to receive individual e-mails.Yahoo! Groups > > Links > > > > > > > > > > > > AquaticLife-fullfeatured@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife-fullfeatured%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ------------------------------------ > > > > > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when > > > replying, Thank You. > > > > > ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> > > > ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> > > > PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that > > is > > > NOT important to > > > the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original > > > message MODIFY the SUBJECT > > > LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" > > <- > > > > > <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. > > > , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. > > > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. > > > > > > If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead > > of > > > unsubscribing, you > > > can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit > > My > > > Membership" on the > > > home page. > > > > > > Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:aquaticlife-digest%40yahoogroups.com> > > > to receive the digest, which > > > includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email > > > > > > Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:aquaticlife-nomail%40yahoogroups.com> > > > for the No E-Mail option where > > > you will still be able to read messages on the group > > and > > > post replies. > > > > > > Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:aquaticlife-normal%40yahoogroups.com> > > > to receive individual > > > e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ------------------------------------ > > > > > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when > > > replying, Thank You. > > > > > ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> > > > ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> > > > PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that > > is > > > NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC > > of > > > the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> > > i.e. "new > > > subject (was re: old subject)" <- > > > > > <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. > > > , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. > > > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. > > > > > > If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead > > of > > > unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by > > > clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the home page. > > > > > > Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:aquaticlife-digest%40yahoogroups.com> > > > to receive the digest, which includes up to 25 posts > > at a > > > time in a single email > > > > > > Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:aquaticlife-nomail%40yahoogroups.com> > > > for the No E-Mail option where you will still be able > > to > > > read messages on the group and post replies. > > > > > > Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:aquaticlife-normal%40yahoogroups.com> > > > to receive individual e-mails.Yahoo! 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Groups Links > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 44450	From: cat.rose	Date: 11/12/2009
Subject: Re: Plants growing black hair - eek.

I just created an album in Photos titled "Catherine's Aquarium", and I posted some pictures of my plants for identification. Thanks for your help... Catherine --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "cat.rose" <catrosemail-peace@...> wrote: > > Thanks Lenny! (and Eric!) > > Ok... so it seems like I'm doing pretty good for now. I took out one of > the light bulbs; the fishies will just have a brightly lit area and a > dimly lit area for now. I suppose I could alternate which bulb comes > out so the plants don't suffer. I love Eric's idea of a timer - that > would solve a lot of problems. > > You didn't mention doing anything with hydrogen peroxide (which someone > had suggested when I first posted my dilemma), so I'm guessing that's > not really an option that needs to be pursued. I was actually thinking > of tossing out ALL the plants and getting new ones, but seems I don't > need to do anything that drastic - esp since it may upset the bioload. > [:-?] The plants just look really UGLY right now. [:-&] > > Maybe I'll get a couple Cherry Shrimp. I am a bit nervous that they > will multiply to the hundreds, tho I wouldn't mind terribly if they > became snacks for the other fish. > > I don't know anyone with aquariums so there won't be any fish swapping > for me. And I've grown quite fond of the little guys, and would only > want to take them somewhere that would give them a really good home, so > that definitely leaves out returning them to PetSmart. I know you told > me before that the Zebra Danios would be better in a school, but since I > can't fit any more fish into this tank, and I don't have anyone > "suitable" to give any of the fish to I'm stuck with this little group. > They all seem pretty happy tho... > > Appreciate all the great advice! > > Catherine > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" > GoldLenny@ wrote: > > > > Hi Eric, > > > > I mentioned a clown pleco in my last reply, but in retrospect, even a > dwarf > > pleco wouldn't help with algae growing on a hornwort plant or most > other > > plants. There's nothing for them to suck on like with a broad leafed > plant > > and even dwarfs get too big for many plants once they mature... but > they do > > work on the glass and other stuff pretty good. > > > > You did remind me that at least with her smaller minnow-type fish, she > could > > go with some Cherry Shrimp and they are pretty good little algae > eaters and > > would be able to climb the hornwort and the smaller fish wouldn't > really > > bother the shrimp although if the shrimp have babies, the babies might > > become snacks to the fish. They are also a VERY SMALL bioload on a > tank. I > > have dozens, if not hundreds in my 10G tank on a regular basis until I > bring > > some to my LFS once a month or so. > > > > All said, the best offense against algae is a good defense... keeping > it > > from getting out of control in the first place by proper tank > maintenance, > > lighting and nutrient control. > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > > (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the > right > > side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, > Month) > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] > On > > Behalf Of Rev. Eric Roberts > > Sent: Monday, November 09, 2009 7:47 PM > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: Plants growing black hair - eek. > > > > Get a timer. They have some multi-plug timers you can get pretty > cheap. it > > keeps the time consistent. What would be really cool is if they had > one > > that can reduce and expand the time the lights are on based on time of > year. > > Most of the hoods you are seeing that have light fixtures use the > standard > > fluorescent tubes. If you are just using those bulbs and staying to > a > > 10-12 hour daylight span, you should be fine. You may want to look > into > > getting a couple of dwarf plecos to help keep the algae down. Dwarf > plecos > > only get a few inches long (as opposed to their regular cousins that > can get > > pretty huge). > > > > Eric > > > > > > From: cat.rose > > Sent: Monday, November 09, 2009 4:37 PM > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Plants growing black hair - eek. > > > > > > > > Here are my answers: > > > > (1) I must have all boys or all girls with my Glo-Fish and Guppies > because > > there's been no babies that I've ever seen and I've had them since > Feburary > > '09. Both my platies are females, but I think Gus (thought she was a > boy > > when I first got her!) was prego when I bought her because she had > some > > babies. Only 1 survived, Sonic, who I believe is a male. Uh oh... I > hope > > they don't mate!! (It's cute because he must know she's his mother > cause he > > follows her around a lot and stays by her side! It's very "Finding > Nemo".) I > > have no plans to buy any more fish as I do NOT want to overstock them. > > > > (2) I'll step up the 25% PWCs to 2x/week, and clean the filter > once/week. > > > > (3) When I first bought the tank/hood, all PetSmart had was the > tubular > > incandescent bulbs (I think 10W each?), but they would make the tank > super > > hot. I went to WalMart and found the florescent ones that I have now, > which > > are much cooler, but yes, MUCH brighter. For awhile I unscrewed one > bulb but > > then half the tank was dark, and it seemed the plants on that half > started > > looking poorly. > > > > I would love a different hood where I could put those long skinny > bulbs that > > I read about (Sorry, I don't know the correct name of those yet! I > still > > feel like a newbie). I've seen a couple hoods online for a 10 gallon > tank, > > but it's hard to tell what type of bulbs will fit them. Can you > recommend a > > product? > > > > For the first several months after I got the tank they would get about > 1-1/2 > > hours of light in the morning before work, then I'd turn off the light > when > > I left for work, and turn the tank on again in the evening for about > 3-4 > > hours after I got home. So that was a total of 5-6 hours of light. > > > > But I read somewhere about following real-time daylight hours that > would > > match what they'd get in the wild, and so I've been turning the light > on > > when I get up in the morning around 7:30-8:00am, and turning it off > when I > > get home from work, no later than 8:00pm. So lately the lights have > been on > > for about 12 hours. And maybe this is why I got the BB algae because I > never > > saw a lick of it when I did my other lighting schedule. > > > > Maybe I should go back to that? I was just worried they weren't > getting > > enough light. > > > > (4) After looking at the link you posted I believe the plants are > hornworts. > > I can try taking a picture and uploading it at some point also. I just > got > > them because they were pretty... :) And also because I thought the > fish > > might like to hide/chill out in the plants. > > > > I've pinched off a bunch of the plants that had the most algae and > it's a > > little better, but there's still hairs everywhere. Blech. > > > > Thanks so much! > > Catherine > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" > GoldLenny@ > > wrote: > > > > > RE: [AquaticLife] Re: Plants growing black hair - eek. > > > > Reply to 5. first - > > > > OK. A big step is keeping the sun out. That is a BIG part of the algae > > problem. Natural light is good for plants but in nature, there's a lot > more > > water per fish so they do not have the pollution problems that our > tanks > > have and even in lakes/streams with lots of algae, it's not an issue > since > > we are not looking into the side of the lake/stream so the algae is > not an > > issue like in our tanks. > > > > Reply to 1. - > > > > Your stocking isn't too bad except the GloFish (Zebra Danios) should > be in a > > school of six or more but that would make you overstocked but not by > much if > > your other fish did not breed but presuming they will, do NOT buy any > more > > ZD's for now... but read on for my thoughts of a plan for you. > > > > I'm guessing you've had more than the 2 guppies and 3 platies in the > past... > > right? Livebearers are NOT the best fish to keep in a 10G tank as they > > easily breed and have so many babies that the bioload can become a > major > > water quality problem but as long as the fish keeper is willing to do > the > > more frequent PWC's, filter maintenance, etc., to keep up with the > bioload > > until the babies can be rehomed, then it would be OK. Of course, > having all > > males of livebearers can work in a 10G tank since you would not have > the > > breeding issues and the males are usually the prettier of the species > > anyhow... for most species except us humans. :-( > > > > Did you get the Hornwort plant (if this is what you have) as a way of > giving > > the babies a way of hiding to avoid being eaten? I know this is a > common > > plant used for this purpose... but in your case, you cannot afford the > added > > bioload of a bunch of surviving babies. You never said what type of > plant > > you have. Did you look at the link I provided? Is this what you have? > > > > Do you know anyone else that has Zebra Danios and are understocked > with > > them? One or the other could take the undersized school off of the > other in > > exchange for other fish. This would fill up the school of Zebra Danios > > without adding to the bioload of either tank. It would be better if > you > > filled up the school of ZD's and gave up either the guppies or platies > in > > exchange. > > > > Reply to 2. - > > > > While once a week is a good general schedule for 25% PWC's, in a tank > that > > is having water quality problems or is overstocked, then the schedule > needs > > to be increased. In your case, you are not overstocked, although I > suspect > > you were recently due to having lots of fry but I'll wait for your > reply. > > Your nitrates (NO3-) are not in any kind of danger zone but since you > are > > having algae issues, you could start doing two 25% PWC's a week until > they > > are down and being maintained in the 10 - 20ppm range. > > > > Reply to 3. - > > > > Since you've read my article on Filter Maintenance and considering > your > > slightly elevated nitrates and algae issue, you should start doing > weekly > > PROPER maintenance by cleaning the filter pads/cartridges in removed > tank > > water to get as much of the detritus off without harming your > nitrifying > > bacteria colonies too much. Even after you get your tank back in the > shape > > you like, stick with weekly PWC's and filter maintenance to keep it > from > > getting bad again and so that your fish are swimming around in nice > cleaner > > water instead of water diluted / polluted with their waste and > decaying > > detritus. > > > > Reply to 4. - > > > > Are these the bulbs that came with the hood or did you have two > tubular > > incandescent bulbs... usually 7.5W each, at first? Those 10W bulbs you > now > > have are CFL's (Compact Fluorescent Light bulbs) and they put out a > LOT more > > light (lumens) than those two 7.5W incandescent bulbs. One of those > 10W > > CFL's probably puts out lumens comparable to a 40W incandescent bulb > or > > around 20W of normal fluorescent lighting so your tank has VERY STRONG > > lighting now... which is also, likely contributing to your algae > issue. If > > you were leaving your lights on for 10 hours a day, cut them back to 9 > > hours/day for a week, then back to 8 hours/day for a week and you > might have > > to go down to 6 hours/day until you find the lighting schedule that > works > > for your plants without causing algae. Let us know what your lighting > > schedule was. > > > > Reply to 6. - > > > > Your test results aren't bad but see above about your nitrate (NO3-) > level > > and a simple plan to fix that minor problem. > > > > See my questions above... mainly about what kind of plant that you > have (or > > take a picture and post it and we should be able to ID it for you) and > what > > your lighting schedule was. > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles > referenced > > in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under > Labels and > > also under Archives by Year, Month) > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] > On > > Behalf Of cat.rose > > Sent: Sunday, November 08, 2009 9:00 PM > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Plants growing black hair - eek. > > > > Hi Lenny, > > > > Here's the answers to your questions: > > > > 1. How many fish? - 2 guppies, 2 GloFish, 3 platies (one is a baby/few > > months old) > > > > 2. How often do you do 25% PWC's? - Once a week > > > > 3. How often do you do filter maintenance? Once a month (and after > doing it > > the wrong way the first time, I read your blog & do know the proper > way to > > clean filter!) :) > > > > 4. What kind of lighting does the tank have? 2 florescent bulbs, 10w > each > > (the kind that look like 2 "U" shaped bulbs in one) > > > > 5. Does it get any sunlight? It gets some morning sun, but I can start > to > > keep the blinds closed. I thought the natural light would be good - > oops > > > > 6. Test numbers a/o tonight after doing 25% PWC: > > NH3 = 0 > > NO2 = <0.3 > > NO-3 = 40 > > PH = 7.0 > > GH = 7 > > KH = 2 > > > > I hope we can figure this out - this stuff is really ugly. :( > > > > Thanks! > > Catherine > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" > GoldLenny@ > > wrote: > > > > > > You are getting algae. Algae is perfectly normal and grows in nearly > > > every aquarium but there are things you can do to keep it under > > > control. It will not hurt your fish as long as it doesn't get to the > > > point where it completely overtakes the tank. Algae is natural but > > > when it starts to get out of control, it usually means that you > might > > > need to change the way you are maintaining the tank. > > > > > > The plant you have is probably a type of Hornwort. See this page and > > > let us know if this is what you have. > > > > > > http://www.plantedtank.net/forums/myplants/47-Tropical_Hornwort_Ceratoph\ \ > yllu > > m_submersum.html > > > > > > In the future, DO NOT buy any kind of fish or plant without doing > > > research first to make sure you are getting something that is > > > compatible with your tank, water, etc... but this is probably not an > > > issue in this case. Since you have a 10G tank, see my blog article > > > about compatible fish and stocking recommendations for a 10G tank so > > > you will have a quick guide of which fish are compatible with your > > > tank if you do decide to change things around in the future. > > > > > > Is the plant growing from what you can tell or is it possibly dying > off? > > > > > > Tell us more about your tank maintenance and the tank in general. > How > > > many fish? What kind of fish? How often do you do 25% PWC's (partial > > > water changes)? How often do you do filter maintenance? While on the > > > topic of filter maintenance, read my long blog article about proper > > > "Filter Cleaning and Maintenance" so you do not make some of these > > > common mistakes. What kind of lighting does the tank have? Does it > get > > > any sunlight, since sunlight will cause algae much faster than other > > > lighting so you do NOT really want any direct sunlight? > > > > > > Do you happen to have any test kits for things like ammonia, > nitrite, > > > nitrate, pH, etc? If you do, give us those test results in numbers > > > (Note that OK or Safe are not numbers. ;-)). > > > > > > There's a lot more to ask but I'll wait for your answers. > > > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles > > > referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, > alphabetically > > > under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) > > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] > > > On Behalf Of cat.rose > > > Sent: Saturday, November 07, 2009 9:39 AM > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > > Subject: [AquaticLife] Plants growing black hair - eek. > > > > > > Hey all! > > > > > > Things have been going good here with my 10 gal FW tank. About a > month > > > or more ago I bought sone new plants at PetSmart: don't know the > name > > > but they're fluffy, kind of angel hairy types, bright green. > > > > > > Well a couple weeks ago I was doing my PWC and noticed what looked > > > like clumps of my roommate's black hair in the tank. Since I'm the > > > only one who ever cleans the tank, I was very confused as to how > this > > happened as I'm pretty meticulous with the tank/fish. > > > > > > Well, it seems these plants are "growing" long black "hair"! It > > > doesn't seem like the plant is dying and turning black because the > > > black hairs are much longer than the green parts. It looks kind of > > > gross, and the hairs are breaking off or something cuz they're not > > > just on the live plants but bits scattered around the tank too. > > > > > > Should I immediately take out the plants and throw them out? Can it > > > hurt my fish? I'm sure it's clogging up the filter, which I probably > > > need to clean now too. > > > > > > Looks rather frightening in there now... > > > > > > Thanks! > > > Catherine > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 44451	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 11/12/2009
Subject: Re: Plants growing black hair - eek.

Looks like Cabomba. Look at these two sites, click on the little picture to enlarge it and compare. Let us know which is yours. One is moderate and one is very difficult to keep. http://www.plantgeek.net/plantguide_viewer.php?id=42 http://www.plantgeek.net/plantguide_viewer.php?id=43 Plantgeek.net profiles are good and I still start there since I know how to find stuff on their site the best but there are better plant profile sites out there nowadays. Once we know which plant you have, I can direct you to a better profile and care sheet. Of course, Googling the scientific name of either plant will lead you to lots of info as well. In the future, since you are still new to plants, it's best to go with easy to grow plants. See my blog article, "Planted Tank..." for links to lists of easy to grow plants and other beginner info on plant keeping. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of cat.rose Sent: Thursday, November 12, 2009 9:41 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Plants growing black hair - eek. I just created an album in Photos titled "Catherine's Aquarium", and I posted some pictures of my plants for identification. Thanks for your help... Catherine --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "cat.rose" <catrosemail-peace@...> wrote: > > Thanks Lenny! (and Eric!) > > Ok... so it seems like I'm doing pretty good for now. I took out one of > the light bulbs; the fishies will just have a brightly lit area and a > dimly lit area for now. I suppose I could alternate which bulb comes > out so the plants don't suffer. I love Eric's idea of a timer - that > would solve a lot of problems. > > You didn't mention doing anything with hydrogen peroxide (which someone > had suggested when I first posted my dilemma), so I'm guessing that's > not really an option that needs to be pursued. I was actually thinking > of tossing out ALL the plants and getting new ones, but seems I don't > need to do anything that drastic - esp since it may upset the bioload. > [:-?] The plants just look really UGLY right now. [:-&] > > Maybe I'll get a couple Cherry Shrimp. I am a bit nervous that they > will multiply to the hundreds, tho I wouldn't mind terribly if they > became snacks for the other fish. > > I don't know anyone with aquariums so there won't be any fish swapping > for me. And I've grown quite fond of the little guys, and would only > want to take them somewhere that would give them a really good home, so > that definitely leaves out returning them to PetSmart. I know you told > me before that the Zebra Danios would be better in a school, but since I > can't fit any more fish into this tank, and I don't have anyone > "suitable" to give any of the fish to I'm stuck with this little group. > They all seem pretty happy tho... > > Appreciate all the great advice! > > Catherine > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" > GoldLenny@ wrote: > > > > Hi Eric, > > > > I mentioned a clown pleco in my last reply, but in retrospect, even a > dwarf > > pleco wouldn't help with algae growing on a hornwort plant or most > other > > plants. There's nothing for them to suck on like with a broad leafed > plant > > and even dwarfs get too big for many plants once they mature... but > they do > > work on the glass and other stuff pretty good. > > > > You did remind me that at least with her smaller minnow-type fish, she > could > > go with some Cherry Shrimp and they are pretty good little algae > eaters and > > would be able to climb the hornwort and the smaller fish wouldn't > really > > bother the shrimp although if the shrimp have babies, the babies might > > become snacks to the fish. They are also a VERY SMALL bioload on a > tank. I > > have dozens, if not hundreds in my 10G tank on a regular basis until I > bring > > some to my LFS once a month or so. > > > > All said, the best offense against algae is a good defense... keeping > it > > from getting out of control in the first place by proper tank > maintenance, > > lighting and nutrient control. > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles > > referenced in above reply are listed on the > right > > side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, > Month) > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] > On > > Behalf Of Rev. Eric Roberts > > Sent: Monday, November 09, 2009 7:47 PM > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: Plants growing black hair - eek. > > > > Get a timer. They have some multi-plug timers you can get pretty > cheap. it > > keeps the time consistent. What would be really cool is if they had > one > > that can reduce and expand the time the lights are on based on time of > year. > > Most of the hoods you are seeing that have light fixtures use the > standard > > fluorescent tubes. If you are just using those bulbs and staying to > a > > 10-12 hour daylight span, you should be fine. You may want to look > into > > getting a couple of dwarf plecos to help keep the algae down. Dwarf > plecos > > only get a few inches long (as opposed to their regular cousins that > can get > > pretty huge). > > > > Eric > > > > > > From: cat.rose > > Sent: Monday, November 09, 2009 4:37 PM > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Plants growing black hair - eek. > > > > > > > > Here are my answers: > > > > (1) I must have all boys or all girls with my Glo-Fish and Guppies > because > > there's been no babies that I've ever seen and I've had them since > Feburary > > '09. Both my platies are females, but I think Gus (thought she was a > boy > > when I first got her!) was prego when I bought her because she had > some > > babies. Only 1 survived, Sonic, who I believe is a male. Uh oh... I > hope > > they don't mate!! (It's cute because he must know she's his mother > cause he > > follows her around a lot and stays by her side! It's very "Finding > Nemo".) I > > have no plans to buy any more fish as I do NOT want to overstock them. > > > > (2) I'll step up the 25% PWCs to 2x/week, and clean the filter > once/week. > > > > (3) When I first bought the tank/hood, all PetSmart had was the > tubular > > incandescent bulbs (I think 10W each?), but they would make the tank > super > > hot. I went to WalMart and found the florescent ones that I have now, > which > > are much cooler, but yes, MUCH brighter. For awhile I unscrewed one > bulb but > > then half the tank was dark, and it seemed the plants on that half > started > > looking poorly. > > > > I would love a different hood where I could put those long skinny > bulbs that > > I read about (Sorry, I don't know the correct name of those yet! I > still > > feel like a newbie). I've seen a couple hoods online for a 10 gallon > tank, > > but it's hard to tell what type of bulbs will fit them. Can you > recommend a > > product? > > > > For the first several months after I got the tank they would get about > 1-1/2 > > hours of light in the morning before work, then I'd turn off the light > when > > I left for work, and turn the tank on again in the evening for about > 3-4 > > hours after I got home. So that was a total of 5-6 hours of light. > > > > But I read somewhere about following real-time daylight hours that > would > > match what they'd get in the wild, and so I've been turning the light > on > > when I get up in the morning around 7:30-8:00am, and turning it off > when I > > get home from work, no later than 8:00pm. So lately the lights have > been on > > for about 12 hours. And maybe this is why I got the BB algae because I > never > > saw a lick of it when I did my other lighting schedule. > > > > Maybe I should go back to that? I was just worried they weren't > getting > > enough light. > > > > (4) After looking at the link you posted I believe the plants are > hornworts. > > I can try taking a picture and uploading it at some point also. I just > got > > them because they were pretty... :) And also because I thought the > fish > > might like to hide/chill out in the plants. > > > > I've pinched off a bunch of the plants that had the most algae and > it's a > > little better, but there's still hairs everywhere. Blech. > > > > Thanks so much! > > Catherine > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" > GoldLenny@ > > wrote: > > > > > RE: [AquaticLife] Re: Plants growing black hair - eek. > > > > Reply to 5. first - > > > > OK. A big step is keeping the sun out. That is a BIG part of the algae > > problem. Natural light is good for plants but in nature, there's a lot > more > > water per fish so they do not have the pollution problems that our > tanks > > have and even in lakes/streams with lots of algae, it's not an issue > since > > we are not looking into the side of the lake/stream so the algae is > not an > > issue like in our tanks. > > > > Reply to 1. - > > > > Your stocking isn't too bad except the GloFish (Zebra Danios) should > be in a > > school of six or more but that would make you overstocked but not by > much if > > your other fish did not breed but presuming they will, do NOT buy any > more > > ZD's for now... but read on for my thoughts of a plan for you. > > > > I'm guessing you've had more than the 2 guppies and 3 platies in the > past... > > right? Livebearers are NOT the best fish to keep in a 10G tank as they > > easily breed and have so many babies that the bioload can become a > major > > water quality problem but as long as the fish keeper is willing to do > the > > more frequent PWC's, filter maintenance, etc., to keep up with the > bioload > > until the babies can be rehomed, then it would be OK. Of course, > having all > > males of livebearers can work in a 10G tank since you would not have > the > > breeding issues and the males are usually the prettier of the species > > anyhow... for most species except us humans. :-( > > > > Did you get the Hornwort plant (if this is what you have) as a way of > giving > > the babies a way of hiding to avoid being eaten? I know this is a > common > > plant used for this purpose... but in your case, you cannot afford the > added > > bioload of a bunch of surviving babies. You never said what type of > plant > > you have. Did you look at the link I provided? Is this what you have? > > > > Do you know anyone else that has Zebra Danios and are understocked > with > > them? One or the other could take the undersized school off of the > other in > > exchange for other fish. This would fill up the school of Zebra Danios > > without adding to the bioload of either tank. It would be better if > you > > filled up the school of ZD's and gave up either the guppies or platies > in > > exchange. > > > > Reply to 2. - > > > > While once a week is a good general schedule for 25% PWC's, in a tank > that > > is having water quality problems or is overstocked, then the schedule > needs > > to be increased. In your case, you are not overstocked, although I > suspect > > you were recently due to having lots of fry but I'll wait for your > reply. > > Your nitrates (NO3-) are not in any kind of danger zone but since you > are > > having algae issues, you could start doing two 25% PWC's a week until > they > > are down and being maintained in the 10 - 20ppm range. > > > > Reply to 3. - > > > > Since you've read my article on Filter Maintenance and considering > your > > slightly elevated nitrates and algae issue, you should start doing > weekly > > PROPER maintenance by cleaning the filter pads/cartridges in removed > tank > > water to get as much of the detritus off without harming your > nitrifying > > bacteria colonies too much. Even after you get your tank back in the > shape > > you like, stick with weekly PWC's and filter maintenance to keep it > from > > getting bad again and so that your fish are swimming around in nice > cleaner > > water instead of water diluted / polluted with their waste and > decaying > > detritus. > > > > Reply to 4. - > > > > Are these the bulbs that came with the hood or did you have two > tubular > > incandescent bulbs... usually 7.5W each, at first? Those 10W bulbs you > now > > have are CFL's (Compact Fluorescent Light bulbs) and they put out a > LOT more > > light (lumens) than those two 7.5W incandescent bulbs. One of those > 10W > > CFL's probably puts out lumens comparable to a 40W incandescent bulb > or > > around 20W of normal fluorescent lighting so your tank has VERY STRONG > > lighting now... which is also, likely contributing to your algae > issue. If > > you were leaving your lights on for 10 hours a day, cut them back to 9 > > hours/day for a week, then back to 8 hours/day for a week and you > might have > > to go down to 6 hours/day until you find the lighting schedule that > works > > for your plants without causing algae. Let us know what your lighting > > schedule was. > > > > Reply to 6. - > > > > Your test results aren't bad but see above about your nitrate (NO3-) > level > > and a simple plan to fix that minor problem. > > > > See my questions above... mainly about what kind of plant that you > have (or > > take a picture and post it and we should be able to ID it for you) and > what > > your lighting schedule was. > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles > referenced > > in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under > Labels and > > also under Archives by Year, Month) > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] > On > > Behalf Of cat.rose > > Sent: Sunday, November 08, 2009 9:00 PM > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Plants growing black hair - eek. > > > > Hi Lenny, > > > > Here's the answers to your questions: > > > > 1. How many fish? - 2 guppies, 2 GloFish, 3 platies (one is a baby/few > > months old) > > > > 2. How often do you do 25% PWC's? - Once a week > > > > 3. How often do you do filter maintenance? Once a month (and after > doing it > > the wrong way the first time, I read your blog & do know the proper > way to > > clean filter!) :) > > > > 4. What kind of lighting does the tank have? 2 florescent bulbs, 10w > each > > (the kind that look like 2 "U" shaped bulbs in one) > > > > 5. Does it get any sunlight? It gets some morning sun, but I can start > to > > keep the blinds closed. I thought the natural light would be good - > oops > > > > 6. Test numbers a/o tonight after doing 25% PWC: > > NH3 = 0 > > NO2 = <0.3 > > NO-3 = 40 > > PH = 7.0 > > GH = 7 > > KH = 2 > > > > I hope we can figure this out - this stuff is really ugly. :( > > > > Thanks! > > Catherine > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" > GoldLenny@ > > wrote: > > > > > > You are getting algae. Algae is perfectly normal and grows in nearly > > > every aquarium but there are things you can do to keep it under > > > control. It will not hurt your fish as long as it doesn't get to the > > > point where it completely overtakes the tank. Algae is natural but > > > when it starts to get out of control, it usually means that you > might > > > need to change the way you are maintaining the tank. > > > > > > The plant you have is probably a type of Hornwort. See this page and > > > let us know if this is what you have. > > > > > > http://www.plantedtank.net/forums/myplants/47-Tropical_Hornwort_Ceratoph\ \ > yllu > > m_submersum.html > > > > > > In the future, DO NOT buy any kind of fish or plant without doing > > > research first to make sure you are getting something that is > > > compatible with your tank, water, etc... but this is probably not an > > > issue in this case. Since you have a 10G tank, see my blog article > > > about compatible fish and stocking recommendations for a 10G tank so > > > you will have a quick guide of which fish are compatible with your > > > tank if you do decide to change things around in the future. > > > > > > Is the plant growing from what you can tell or is it possibly dying > off? > > > > > > Tell us more about your tank maintenance and the tank in general. > How > > > many fish? What kind of fish? How often do you do 25% PWC's (partial > > > water changes)? How often do you do filter maintenance? While on the > > > topic of filter maintenance, read my long blog article about proper > > > "Filter Cleaning and Maintenance" so you do not make some of these > > > common mistakes. What kind of lighting does the tank have? Does it > get > > > any sunlight, since sunlight will cause algae much faster than other > > > lighting so you do NOT really want any direct sunlight? > > > > > > Do you happen to have any test kits for things like ammonia, > nitrite, > > > nitrate, pH, etc? If you do, give us those test results in numbers > > > (Note that OK or Safe are not numbers. ;-)). > > > > > > There's a lot more to ask but I'll wait for your answers. > > > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles > > > referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, > alphabetically > > > under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) > > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] > > > On Behalf Of cat.rose > > > Sent: Saturday, November 07, 2009 9:39 AM > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > > Subject: [AquaticLife] Plants growing black hair - eek. > > > > > > Hey all! > > > > > > Things have been going good here with my 10 gal FW tank. About a > month > > > or more ago I bought sone new plants at PetSmart: don't know the > name > > > but they're fluffy, kind of angel hairy types, bright green. > > > > > > Well a couple weeks ago I was doing my PWC and noticed what looked > > > like clumps of my roommate's black hair in the tank. Since I'm the > > > only one who ever cleans the tank, I was very confused as to how > this > > happened as I'm pretty meticulous with the tank/fish. > > > > > > Well, it seems these plants are "growing" long black "hair"! It > > > doesn't seem like the plant is dying and turning black because the > > > black hairs are much longer than the green parts. It looks kind of > > > gross, and the hairs are breaking off or something cuz they're not > > > just on the live plants but bits scattered around the tank too. > > > > > > Should I immediately take out the plants and throw them out? Can it > > > hurt my fish? I'm sure it's clogging up the filter, which I probably > > > need to clean now too. > > > > > > Looks rather frightening in there now... > > > > > > Thanks! > > > Catherine > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] ------------------------------------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. 74/`7.88.><((((:>.74/`7.88.74/`7.8><((((:> 8.74/`7.8. , .74/`7..><((((:> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <:((((><.74/`7.88.74/`7.8<:((((><8.74/`7.8. , .74/`7..<:((((><74/`7.88. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the home page. Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com to receive the digest, which includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com for the No E-Mail option where you will still be able to read messages on the group and post replies. Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com to receive individual e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 44452	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 11/12/2009
Subject: Re: wisteria/lighting previous question/response revisited

Just because a fixture currently has a T-8 or T-10, does not mean it cannot use a T-12, and vice versa. They are all medium bi-pin bulbs, meaning they all will fit and work UNLESS the reflector is so tight that a T-12 cannot fit inside the fixture but I haven't seen this as a problem in the past. Usually, going with a T-8 or T-10, instead of a T-12 will give more lumens but in the case of this particular sized bulb, the T-12 may be the better option. Of course, we still need more details on Bill's exact bulb. We still do not know anything except that it's 17 watts... nothing about lumens, K rating or anything else for comparison purposes. As Johnny 5 once said... "Need more input!" (I have no clue why that OLD movie line popped into my head and I can't blame it on drugs since I didn't/don't do them... and as far as I know, beer doesn't cause acid flashbacks. LOL http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Short_Circuit) Now... thinking back a little. Bill may have T-4's and if he does, those use the miniature bi-pin base and the above larger T-#'s with medium bi-pin base would not work. If this is the case, there are other options listed on this page... http://www.servicelighting.com/T4-Straight-Linear-Fluorescent-Light-Bulbs including this 20W, 6400K, 1340 Lumens bulb - http://www.servicelighting.com/Bulbrite-85220-F20T4-64K-F20T4-D-T4-Straight- Linear-Fluorescent-Light-Bulb, which sounds like a pretty good bulb from the specs and actually provides more lumens than any of the T-12's previously listed. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Amber Berglund Sent: Thursday, November 12, 2009 10:29 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: wisteria/lighting previous question/response revisited Bill has smaller bulbs, I think they are not easy to find in a higher wattage output, which is what he was looking for a few months back. Amber Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > > I don't know what you mean by this. Please elaborate. What size tube? > I posted about several different bulbs but all were T-12's, which is > one of the most common sizes. > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> (Links to any articles referenced in > above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels > and also under Archives by Year, Month) > > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On Behalf Of bill 1433 > Sent: Thursday, November 12, 2009 8:59 AM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: wisteria/lighting previous > question/response revisited > > Yes Len, > > But its finding that size tube with more of anything that's the problem. > > Bill > > --- On Wed, 11/11/09, Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@... > <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com>> wrote: > > > From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@... > <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com>> > > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: wisteria/lighting previous > > question/response revisited > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > Date: Wednesday, November 11, 2009, 5:22 PM Well, if you only have > > 17W, then you could definitely do better with the 20W, higher lumen, > > better K rating bulbs that I mentioned. Considering the lumen > > ratings of fluorescent bulbs I've looked at, your 17W bulbs might > > only have 500-700 lumens where the BEST 20W bulb (below) has > > 1075 lumens so you > > could possibly increase your lighting by 50% to 100% just by > > changing to that bulb. At least, with that bulb, you'll be in the > > low-light range for plants on the 20G but the 29G will need some work. > > > > Of course, you should find out what the lumens and K ratings are on > > the bulbs you have so you'll know if you are getting a small jump or > > a BIG jump in lighting just by changing your bulbs. Check your local > > WalMart for bulbs. My nearby WalMart SuperCenter has a really big > > assortment of fluorescent tubes and they were cheaper than the Home > > Depot. > > > > Something else I'm thinking about for you is going with 18" > > light-sticks on > > each end of your 29G tank or front or back (back would hide it best > > but you decide your best aesthetics) and you'd have to make a DIY > > reflector for it (white poster board and scotch tape would work) and > > that would get more lighting down to the bottom level plants in the > > 29G. > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> (Links to any articles > > referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, > > alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] > > On > > Behalf Of bill 1433 > > Sent: Wednesday, November 11, 2009 3:42 PM > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: wisteria/lighting previous > > question/response revisited > > > > It is what it is type of thing Len. Site says one thing but stamped > > or printed right on the tube is at 17 watts. > > > > Bill > > > > --- On Wed, 11/11/09, Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@... > <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com>> > > wrote: > > > > > From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@... > <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com>> > > > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: wisteria/lighting > > previous > > > question/response revisited > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > Date: Wednesday, November 11, 2009, 2:16 PM The > > problem might be this > > > statement in the description... > > > > > > "... Hoods include 8000ºK bulb... ...20W, 24"..." > > > > > > That's getting into the higher green/blue Kelvin > > range... > > > closer to the > > > 10,000K actinic type bulbs... than the 5000K to 6500K > > "Daylight" bulbs > > > that provide full spectrum lighting. It's also only > > a 20W bulb > > > (according to the DFS site, although you stated it was > > only 17W so > > > double check this) so it's only 1WPG on the 20G and > > only 0.69WPG on > > > the 29G. Of course, if the bulb puts out a LOT more > > lumens (you would > > > have to do more checking up on the bulb to find this), > > that would help > > > a little but not much. I think you need at least > > 1WPG to have success > > > with low-light plants, although floating plants like > > Anacharis, > > > Hornwort, Duckweed, etc., would be up close to the > > light and benefit > > > from CO2 from the air and would do OK with your > > lighting... but then > > > they would also block out the lighting to the rest of > > the tank. > > > > > > I don't see a lot of options, as far as T-8 bulbs are > > concerned for > > > this size fixture but I see a few different T-12's... > > such as... > > > > > > (My rating is: GOOD - but see BETTER and BEST options > > below... at > > > least as far as the bulbs on this site are concerned) > > > > > > > http://www.servicelighting.com/Sylvania-22119-F20T12-DSGN50-T12-Straig > <http://www.servicelighting.com/Sylvania-22119-F20T12-DSGN50-T12-Strai > g> > > > ht-Lin > > > ear-Fluorescent-Light-Bulb > > > > > > Light Output: 880 lumens > > > Refers to the literal measure of the light-output of a > > particular > > > light bulb, measured in the number of lumens. > > > > > > Energy Used: 20 watts > > > "Watts" is the term applied to the amount of energy > > required and used > > > by a particular light bulb. It is an international > > system unit of > > > power equal to one joule per second. Contrary to > > popular belief, the > > > wattage of a bulb does not directly measure the > > brightness; the > > > "lumens" of a light is what defines the actual light > > output. > > > > > > Average Lifetime: 9,000 hours > > > This refers to an average lifetime rating based on > > large quantities in > > > test groups. This testing takes into account usage of > > 3 hours per > > > start for fluorescent lamps and 10 hours per start for > > HID lamps. > > > > > > Bulb Type: T12 > > > The "Bulb Type" is typically a combination of the > > style of bulb as > > > well as the width of the bulb. Usually, the first > > couple letters will > > > indicate the type; "G" would indicate "Globe", "PAR" > > would indicate > > > "Parabolic Reflector"... The numbers indicate the > > diameter of the > > > light bulb in eighths of an inch; a "G40" would be a > > "Globe" style > > > that is "5 inches" in diameter. > > > > > > > > > Base Type: Medium Bi-Pin > > > The "Base" of a light bulb is the part that either > > screws or snaps > > > into a receptacle. Base Type terminology may indicate > > common > > > descriptive words like "Medium" or "Candelabra", or > > may even contain > > > numeric codes that signify size and variety, like > > "E26" or "2GX13". > > > > > > Color Temperature: 5,000K > > > Correlated Color Temperature (CCT) is a specification > > of the color > > > appearance of a lamp, relating its color to that of a > > reference source > > > heated to a particular temperature, measured in > > degrees Kelvin (K). It > > > generally measures the "warmth" or "coolness" of light > > source > > > appearance. > > > > > > CRI: 90 > > > CRI refers to the "Color Rendering Index" of a light > > bulb. > > > CRI measures a > > > light source and grades its ability to render the > > color of objects > > > "correctly," as compared with a reference source with > > comparable color > > > temperature. 100 is perfect rendering. > > > > > > Length: 24 inches > > > > > > > > > (BETTER - slightly higher lumens and higher 6500K > > rating) > > > > > > > http://www.servicelighting.com/Westinghouse-36516-F20T12-FS-T12-Straig > <http://www.servicelighting.com/Westinghouse-36516-F20T12-FS-T12-Strai > g> > > > ht-Lin > > > ear-Fluorescent-Light-Bulb > > > > > > Light Output: 900 lumens > > > Energy Used: 20 watts > > > Average Lifetime: 10,000 hours > > > Bulb Type: T12 > > > Base Type: Medium Bi-Pin > > > Color Temperature: 6,500K > > > CRI: 90 > > > Length: 24 inches > > > > > > > > > > > > (BEST, of these three - around 20% higher lumens and > > good 6,500K > > > rating, although it does have a lower CRI rating.. but > > still > > > passing) > > > > > > > http://www.servicelighting.com/Sylvania-22083-F20T12-D-T12-Straight-Li > <http://www.servicelighting.com/Sylvania-22083-F20T12-D-T12-Straight-L > i> > > > near-F > > > luorescent-Light-Bulb > > > > > > Light Output: 1,075 lumens > > > Energy Used: 20 watts > > > Average Lifetime: 9,000 hours > > > Bulb Type: T12 > > > Base Type: Medium Bi-Pin > > > Color Temperature: 6,500K > > > CRI: 76 > > > Length: 24 inches > > > > > > Compare the above three to what is sold as a > > plant/aquarium light by > > > the same company, which has a lower lumens, MUCH lower > > CRI rating and > > > does not list the K rating other than to say "Plant" > > which is a > > > subjective rating established by the manufacturer. > > > > > > (WORST) > > > > > > > http://www.servicelighting.com/Westinghouse-36411-F20T12-PL-T12-Straig > <http://www.servicelighting.com/Westinghouse-36411-F20T12-PL-T12-Strai > g> > > > ht-Lin > > > ear-Fluorescent-Light-Bulb > > > > > > Light Output: 700 lumens (over 30% less lighting > > than the 1,075 > > > lumens bulb > > > above) > > > Energy Used: 20 watts > > > Average Lifetime: 10,000 hours > > > Bulb Type: T12 > > > Base Type: Medium Bi-Pin > > > Color: Plant > > > CRI: 61 > > > Length: 24 inches > > > > > > If any of the above have much better lumens than your > > current > > > lighting... > > > and they all have better K ratings, then any of them > > would be better > > > for you... but you would still be stuck with only 20 > > watts but it's > > > the LUMENS and K rating that count more than watts. > > You need to find > > > out the lumens on your bulb. Try to find it on the > > DFS site and let > > > us know. > > > > > > You should look at the AHSupply.com place for a > > retrofit kit so you > > > can use CFL's in your current hood. That would > > probably be your least > > > expensive option. I know you don't like electricity > > but I'm sure you > > > know someone that could do this for you... on the > > cheap... or over a > > > 6-pack. > > > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> (Links to > > any articles > > > referenced in above reply are listed on the right > > side, alphabetically > > > under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) > > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] > > > On > > > Behalf Of bill 1433 > > > Sent: Wednesday, November 11, 2009 9:33 AM > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: wisteria/lighting > > previous > > > question/response > > > revisited > > > > > > Hi \\Steve// > > > > > > At this point, and also to refresh your mind, and > > anyone > > > else on the group > > > that may have interest. This all got started with > > my > > > search for a tube that > > > would allow me more light output from an All Glass > > Plastic > > > hood and light. > > > This unit comes with a "color type tube at 17 watts > > that is > > > only 24 inches > > > long. This is for a 20/29-gallon tank. I was stupid enough to buy > > > two of them, one for each tank. For further inspection > > here > > > is the light: > > > > > > > http://www.drsfostersmith.com/product/prod_display.cfm?pcatid=13447 > <http://www.drsfostersmith.com/product/prod_display.cfm?pcatid=13447> > > > > > > For those that would like to aggravate themselves > > further, > > > I can also state > > > that these hoods are very conducive to growing Black Algae! > > > > > > Summoning up, I should have only purchased an > > All-Glass > > > cover and then > > > probably a double tube light of sufficient wattage to > > bring > > > me up to the > > > recommended 2 or 3 watts per gallon. > > > > > > Ya live and learn, > > > > > > Bill > > > > > > > > > --- On Tue, 11/10/09, Steve Szabo <steve@... > <mailto:steve%40familyszabo.com>> > > > wrote: > > > > > > > From: Steve Szabo <steve@... > <mailto:steve%40familyszabo.com>> > > > > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: wisteria/lighting > > > previous > > > > question/response revisited > > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > Date: Tuesday, November 10, 2009, 11:50 PM Bill, > > you > > > got it right! The > > > > T numbers represent the diameter of the bulb in > > 1/8" > > > increments. A T4 > > > > is a bulb 1/2" in diameter, T5 is 5/8", t8 is > > 1" and > > > a t12 is 1 1/2". > > > > As I recall, the F is the wattage of the bulb. > > > > > > > > Lumens, not usually stated on the bulb is the > > actual > > > amount of light > > > > coming from the bulb. It really does not have > > anything > > > to do with > > > > watts, though more watts will give you more > > lumens, > > > but, also the > > > > phosphors used in the bulb affect the amount of > > lumen > > > output. Lumens > > > > and lux are often used interchangeably, but they > > are > > > really different > > > > measurements. Lux is the measure of illumination > > over > > > a given area. It > > > > may actually be more important to aquarists > > raising > > > plants than the > > > > lumen output. Lux is what is measured by a light > > > meter, for anyone who > > > > happens to know what they are--not often seen > > with > > > today's cameras and > > > > photographers. > > > > > > > > Color temperature is important. Average daylight > > > (except may in > > > > Amber's area where they have 6 months of > > darkness) has > > > a color > > > > temperature of 5500-6000. > > > > An overcast day can have a color temperature of > > 6500. > > > As mentioned > > > > earlier, plants need light in two color > > spectrums, > > > and, actually they > > > > are rather narrow spans of wavelengths they > > benefit > > > from. > > > > > > > > I thought I had a bookmark explaining this, but > > I > > > can't find it > > > > quickly (over 400K of bookmarks, and things have > > a > > > tendency to get > > > > lost), however, some judicial Googling will gain > > you > > > the information. > > > > > > > > \\Steve// > > > > > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] > > > > On > > > > Behalf Of bill 1433 > > > > Sent: Tuesday, November 10, 2009 10:20 PM > > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: wisteria/lighting > > > previous > > > > question/response revisited > > > > > > > > Yes, Amber > > > > > > > > It was I, looking for the original information > > and > > > also looked back on > > > > \\Steve//'s post at group to try and find. Ray > > had > > > mentioned all this > > > > the other day saying that he thought the posting > > came > > > from \\Steve//. > > > > > > > > I was not successful in my search. Also, for me > > the > > > most important > > > > part was a link to a chart which showed you > > exactly, > > > or explained > > > > exactly the "T" > > > > factor stands for. For instance, T-4 would be a > > tube > > > that is a half > > > > inch wide, or close to it-----------I think. > > All > > > this is my own > > > > fault. In my interest to acquire and learn > > about > > > lighting,I went > > > > through and studied the applied links but being > > > ol'bill, I never > > > > bookmarked them. > > > > Then to further > > > > compound the problem, I deleted the original > > message > > > that it came > > > > from. In hind-sight you could probably chalk > > this > > > all up to felonious > > > > stupidity on my part. > > > > > > > > Bill---where its always a good day if I learn > > > something new! > > > > > > > > --- On Tue, 11/10/09, Amber Berglund <arberglund@... > <mailto:arberglund%40gmail.com>> > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > From: Amber Berglund <arberglund@... > <mailto:arberglund%40gmail.com>> > > > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: wisteria/lighting > > > previous > > > > question/response revisited > > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > Date: Tuesday, November 10, 2009, 9:30 PM > > > > > > > > > > > > I believe it was Steve who posted a link about > > lumens > > > months back when > > > > (I think it was maybe Bill asking) about lighting > > for > > > planted > > > > aquariums. > > > > Plants require 2 different spectrums of light to > > > properly produce > > > > either leaves or flowers (red is more for flower > > > production and blue > > > > is more for growth, but for the best growing you > > want > > > a mixture of > > > > BOTH colors). > > > > So in reality you would want a light that appears > > more > > > brown/reddish > > > > in coloring and a blue/white coloring as well, > > but > > > they now have bulbs > > > > that have BOTH spectrums built in (I'm sure they > > don't > > > work as well as > > > > it would to have 2 different bulbs one mostly red > > and > > > the other mostly > > > > blue on the color spectrum). > > > > Let me see if I still have the link bookmarked. > > > > What I was trying to say is that Kelvin does not > > tell > > > you what color > > > > spectrum the light REALLY is, it's actually > > measuring > > > it's light > > > > output color according to how the human eyes > > perceive > > > it. So 6500 > > > > kelvin in general is what most plants will > > prefer > > > because that is a > > > > mixture of both red and blue spectrums (In MOST > > bulbs) > > > unfortunately > > > > not all light bulb manufactures have to use the > > exact > > > same chart for > > > > their colors, so they will have different colors > > than > > > another bulb > > > > that says it's 6500 Kelvin. what you really need > > to > > > read is the color > > > > chart on the box, not what lumens it says it is. > > > > (still searching for link, LOL). > > > > > > > > This isn't the right link but it discusses the > > > kelvin/lumen problems a > > > > little bit, still looking for the link that > > showed the > > > charts and what > > > > to look for in the color charts. > > > > http://www.americanaquariumproducts.com/Aquarium_Lighting.html > <http://www.americanaquariumproducts.com/Aquarium_Lighting.html> > > > > > > > > Will post again when I find the other link with > > chart > > > examples. > > > > > > > > Amber > > > > > > > > > > > > Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > > > > > > > > > > I think it would be false advertising or > > > possibly > > > > mis-advertising (if they > > > > > do not know any better) if a company lists > > their > > > bulbs > > > > as 6500K and they > > > > > aren't. The Kelvin scale, just like Watts > > and > > > Lumens, > > > > are ALL > > > > > universal and > > > > > scientifically measurable scales BUT, as I > > > showed > > > > below, not all 40 watt > > > > > bulbs put out the same amount of light > > (lumens) > > > or in > > > > the same color > > > > > spectrum (Kelvin rating). All 40 watt > > bulbs, > > > whether > > > > incandescent, > > > > > fluorescent, CFL, LED, Halogen, etc.... ALL > > use > > > > only/around 40 watts of > > > > > electricity but their light output can vary > > > > dramatically. This is why > > > > > fluorescent bulbs are so much more > > efficient > > > than > > > > incandescent bulbs and > > > > > CFL's are even more efficient... as a 40W > > > fluorescent > > > > bulb puts out a LOT > > > > > more light (lumens) than a 40 watt > > incandescent > > > bulb > > > > and a 40W CFL > > > > > puts out > > > > > more light (lumens) than a 40W fluorescent > > bulb. > > > This > > > > is why the OLD > > > > > "Watts > > > > > Per Gallon" rule simply does not work any > > more. > > > > > > > > > > BUT.. if three different companies are > > selling > > > > standard T-10 fluorescent > > > > > bulbs with the same exact rating of 40W, > > 3550 > > > lumens > > > > and 6500K > > > > > rating... all > > > > > three of those bulbs should be VERY SIMILAR > > if > > > not > > > > identical in the > > > > > way they > > > > > appear to our eyes (subject to our own > > degree of > > > color > > > > blindness, of > > > > > course!) > > > > > > > > > > In the past, things like "soft white", > > "warm > > > white", > > > > "daylight", "plant > > > > > grow", etc., type terms were used and are > > still > > > used > > > > but those are just > > > > > simple words (not subject to a scientific > > scale) > > > to > > > > describe the Kelvin > > > > > rating ranges but lumens are just as > > important > > > since a > > > > bulb could have a > > > > > 6500K rating with only 2200 lumens where > > another > > > bulb > > > > could have a 6500K > > > > > rating and 3550 or 3700 lumens and that > > bulb > > > would put > > > > out over 50% more > > > > > light (lumens) in the same color spectrum > > > (Kelvin > > > > rating) so it would be a > > > > > much more cost effective bulb if it cost > > the > > > same > > > > amount or only a little > > > > > more. > > > > > > > > > > I'm slightly confused about the "red and > > blue > > > light > > > > for your plants" as > > > > > those two colors are on opposite ends of > > the > > > Kelvin > > > > Scale with reds and > > > > > ambers in the lower numbers and greens and > > blues > > > in > > > > the higher numbers. I > > > > > think this is why you would want a > > mid-range > > > (5000K to > > > > 6500K) bulb as > > > > > those > > > > > are generally considered "full spectrum" or > > > "daylight" > > > > bulbs. Here's a > > > > > color picture of the Kelvin Scale, > > > > > http://www.bltdirect.com/images/colour-temperature.jpg > <http://www.bltdirect.com/images/colour-temperature.jpg> > > > > > > > > > <http://www.bltdirect.com/images/colour-temperature.jpg > <http://www.bltdirect.com/images/colour-temperature.jpg>> > > > > and you can > > > > > visually > > > > > see that the 5000K to 6500K range is all > > about > > > the > > > > same "color". I think > > > > > this is also why Actinic bulbs are usually > > higher > > > and > > > > closer to the 10000K > > > > > range and up... apparently, the Kelvin > > lighting > > > scale > > > > can go up to 20,000K > > > > > (according to this article about Reef Tanks > > > > > > > http://nh.craigslist.org/for/1423072406.html > <http://nh.craigslist.org/for/1423072406.html> > > > > > <http://nh.craigslist.org/for/1423072406.html > <http://nh.craigslist.org/for/1423072406.html>> on, > > > of > > > > all places, > > > > > Craigslist). > > > > > Here is the page that that the above photo > > link > > > came > > > > from and it has a > > > > > chart > > > > > that also explains things a little more also > > and > > > talks > > > > about the CRI, yet > > > > > another lighting term (Color Rendition > > Index). > > > > > http://www.bltdirect.com/lampColourTemperatures.php > <http://www.bltdirect.com/lampColourTemperatures.php> > > > > > <http://www.bltdirect.com/lampColourTemperatures.php > <http://www.bltdirect.com/lampColourTemperatures.php>> > > > > > > > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > > > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>> (Links > > > to any articles referenced in > > > > > above reply are > > > > listed on the right > > > > > side, alphabetically under Labels and also > > under > > > > Archives by Year, Month) > > > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On > > > Behalf Of Amber Berglund > > > > > Sent: Tuesday, November 10, 2009 4:22 PM > > > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: > > wisteria/lighting > > > > previous > > > > > question/response > > > > > revisited > > > > > > > > > > Another thing to consider is one light > > company's > > > 6500 > > > > kelvin rating > > > > > may not > > > > > be identical to another light bulb from a > > > different > > > > company that's > > > > > rated the > > > > > same. The important thing to look at is the > > > color > > > > chart they show on the > > > > > boxes, you want more red and blue light for > > your > > > > plants, green is not > > > > > useful > > > > > or harmful as the plants reflect the light > > back > > > (makes > > > > them appear more > > > > > green but does nothing else for them). The > > > kelvin > > > > rating is based on our > > > > > eyes and how they perceive color, so each > > > company > > > > doesn't have to be > > > > > identical, perhaps some day they will have > > a > > > universal > > > > way to measure > > > > > light > > > > > spectrums on bulbs that is much less > > confusing. > > > > > > > > > > Amber > > > > > > > > > > Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > OK. So you have a total of 80 watts > > right > > > now, > > > > which is just over 1 > > > > > > WPG, which means you only have enough > > > lighting > > > > for low-light, easy to > > > > > > grow plants. See my blog article > > "Planted > > > Tank: > > > > So You Want A Planted > > > > > > Tank" for links to lists of low-light, > > easy > > > to > > > > grow plants that will > > > > > > do OK in your tank. You should replace > > > those > > > > tubes at least yearly... > > > > > > although some say every six months. As > > far > > > as I > > > > know, a 40W bulb is > > > > > > the highest wattage made for this type > > of > > > > bulb/fixture right now but > > > > > > you can increase your lighting > > > > > > (lumens) and K (Kelvin) rating. See > > below. > > > > > > > > > > > > NOTE - below links are for > > > example/informational > > > > purposes only, as I > > > > > > know nothing about the sites. God... > > did I > > > just > > > > say that? Do I really > > > > > > have to add disclaimers to my posts > > now? LOL > > > Just > > > > laughing at myself. > > > > > > LOL > > > > > > > > > > > > This may be your Sylvania bulb... > > > > > > > http://www.lightbulbemporium.com/proddetail.asp?prod=F40/EX50 > <http://www.lightbulbemporium.com/proddetail.asp?prod=F40/EX50> > > > > > > > > > <http://www.lightbulbemporium.com/proddetail.asp?prod=F40/EX50 > <http://www.lightbulbemporium.com/proddetail.asp?prod=F40/EX50>> > > > > > > > <http://www.lightbulbemporium.com/proddetail.asp?prod=F40/EX50 > <http://www.lightbulbemporium.com/proddetail.asp?prod=F40/EX50> > > > > > > > > > <http://www.lightbulbemporium.com/proddetail.asp?prod=F40/EX50 > <http://www.lightbulbemporium.com/proddetail.asp?prod=F40/EX50>>> > > > > and if > > > > > > it is, then it's the same ratings as > > the > > > specs in > > > > the T-10 bulb that I > > > > > > copy/pasted below, which is a pretty > > good > > > bulb > > > > with higher lumens and > > > > > > the higher K rating, although not a > > 6500K > > > rated > > > > bulb. At the bottom of > > > > > > this page, there was a link to this > > bulb... > > > > > > > > > > > > http://www.lightbulbemporium.com/maxlite_51204_ml_f40t10_850_rscg.as > <http://www.lightbulbemporium.com/maxlite_51204_ml_f40t10_850_rscg.as> > > > > > p > > > > > > > > > > <http://www.lightbulbemporium.com/maxlite_51204_ml_f40t10_850_rscg.a > <http://www.lightbulbemporium.com/maxlite_51204_ml_f40t10_850_rscg.a> > > > > > sp> > > > > > > > > > > > > <http://www.lightbulbemporium.com/maxlite_51204_ml_f40t10_850_rscg.a > <http://www.lightbulbemporium.com/maxlite_51204_ml_f40t10_850_rscg.a> > > > > > sp > > > > > > > > > > <http://www.lightbulbemporium.com/maxlite_51204_ml_f40t10_850_rscg.a > <http://www.lightbulbemporium.com/maxlite_51204_ml_f40t10_850_rscg.a> > > > > > sp> > > > > > > > > > > > > > which > > > > > > has an even higher lumen rating of > > 3700, > > > although > > > > not much higher than > > > > > > the 3550 rating but every little bit > > helps > > > > especially since the > > > > > > MaxLite bulb was a lower price than > > the > > > Sylvania > > > > bulb. > > > > > > > > > > > > As you will see on this page > > > > > > > > > > > > http://www.lightbulbsdirect.com/Merchant2/merchant.mvc?page=001/CTGY > <http://www.lightbulbsdirect.com/Merchant2/merchant.mvc?page=001/CTGY> > > > > > /F > > > > > > > > > > <http://www.lightbulbsdirect.com/Merchant2/merchant.mvc?page=001/CTG > <http://www.lightbulbsdirect.com/Merchant2/merchant.mvc?page=001/CTG> > > > > > Y/F> > > > > > > S+Fluo > > > > > > > > > > > > <http://www.lightbulbsdirect.com/Merchant2/merchant.mvc?page=001/CTG > <http://www.lightbulbsdirect.com/Merchant2/merchant.mvc?page=001/CTG> > > > > > Y/ > > > > > > > > > > <http://www.lightbulbsdirect.com/Merchant2/merchant.mvc?page=001/CTG > <http://www.lightbulbsdirect.com/Merchant2/merchant.mvc?page=001/CTG> > > > > > Y/> > > > > > > FS+Fluo> > > > > > > rescent > > > > > > > > > > > > The second bulb down would be similar > > to > > > yours, > > > > except we do not know > > > > > > the lumen or color spectrum rating on > > your > > > bulb, > > > > unless that link I > > > > > > gave above is actually your bulb and > > then > > > it > > > > would be the same as this > > > > > > one. The specs on it are: > > > > > > > > > > > > T-10 Fluorescent > > > > > > 40 Watts > > > > > > Length: 48" > > > > > > Medium Bi-Pin Base > > > > > > Color: 5000K Temperature > > > > > > Initial Lumens: 3550 > > > > > > CRI: 84 > > > > > > Average Life: 20,000 Hours > > > > > > > > > > > > The Color spectrum of 5000K (Kelvin) is > > OK > > > but > > > > 6500K would be much > > > > > better. > > > > > > The Lumens of 3550 is the actual amount > > of > > > > *light* > > > > > > > > > > > > The next bulb down from that one is a > > T-12, > > > which > > > > will also fit in > > > > > > your fixture but they are bigger > > diameter > > > bulbs > > > > and this one actually > > > > > > puts out less light (lumens). Here are > > the > > > > specs: > > > > > > > > > > > > T-12 Fluorescent > > > > > > 40 Watts > > > > > > Length: 48" > > > > > > Base: Medium Bi-Pin Base > > > > > > Initial Lumens: 2200 > > > > > > Average Life: 20,000 Hours > > > > > > Color Temperature: 5000K > > > > > > CRI: 92 > > > > > > > > > > > > It has the same Color spectrum but > > only > > > 2200 > > > > lumens so the above T-10 > > > > > > bulb has around 50% more lumens > > (light) > > > coming > > > > out of it. > > > > > > > > > > > > Now, if you scroll down to the second > > from > > > the > > > > bottom on the page, > > > > > > you'll see the Verilux Instant-Sun > > T-12 > > > bulb > > > > which has a higher Kelvin > > > > > > rating but it doesn't list the lumens > > so > > > this > > > > needs to be checked out > > > > > > further. While the higher K rating is > > good, > > > if it > > > > goes back down to > > > > > > only 2200 lumens, instead of the 3550 > > lumens > > > of > > > > the first referenced > > > > > > bulb above, then I would probably go > > with > > > the > > > > 3550 lumens, 5000K bulb > > > > > > over the 6280K bulb if the lumens were > > a > > > LOT > > > > less. > > > > > > > > > > > > (START SNIP) > > > > > > Engineered to reproduce all the colors > > and > > > > balance of natural light, > > > > > > VeriluxR full spectrum fluorescent > > tubes > > > feature > > > > Trucolite Phosphor > > > > > > TechnologyT which includes the use of > > a > > > stable, > > > > custom blend of earth > > > > > > phosphors that create bright, balanced > > full > > > > spectrum light. > > > > > > T-12 Fluorescent > > > > > > 40 Watts > > > > > > Length: 48" > > > > > > Color Temperature: 6280K > > > > > > CRI: 94 > > > > > > Medium Bi-Pin Base > > > > > > (END SNIP) > > > > > > > > > > > > So, as you can see, there's a few > > things to > > > look > > > > for when shopping for > > > > > > new replacement bulbs. Look for the > > 5000K > > > to > > > > 6500K bulbs with the > > > > > > higher lumen rating for the dollar and > > you > > > should > > > > be good. Note that a > > > > > > 3550 or 3700 lumen bulb will put out > > nearly > > > twice > > > > as much light as a > > > > > > 2000 lumen bulb so it can be easy to > > > increase > > > > your lighting without > > > > > > increasing the wattage. DO NOT try to > > use HO > > > or > > > > VHO bulbs... which > > > > > > look similar but have much higher > > wattage, > > > well > > > > over the 40W bulbs you > > > > > > now have. These other HO and VHO bulbs > > have > > > > different pin arrangements > > > > > > so they will not fit in your fixture > > anyhow > > > but I > > > > just wanted to save > > > > > > you a trip. > > > > > > > > > > > > Last but not least, if you're handy, > > you > > > could > > > > even take the bulbs out > > > > > > of your fixtures and line the insides > > of > > > your > > > > fixtures with nice and > > > > > > crisp and flat aluminum foil (shiny > > side > > > exposed) > > > > which will also > > > > > > help. Using double stick tape and then > > > carefully > > > > applying the foil so > > > > > > it does not wrinkle too much will work > > > well... > > > > especially if the > > > > > > inside of your fixture is black. A > > white > > > > reflector is good but a > > > > > > mirrored reflector, like that created > > by > > > the > > > > shiny side of foil, is > > > > > > MUCH better than a black reflector. > > Most > > > black > > > > fixtures do at least > > > > > > have white reflector areas. > > > > > > > > > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > > > > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > > > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>> > > > > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>>> > > > > > (Links to any articles referenced in > > > > > > above reply are listed on the right > > side, > > > > alphabetically under Labels > > > > > > and also under Archives by Year, > > Month) > > > > > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > > > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On > > > > Behalf Of erikaandnewton > > > > > > Sent: Tuesday, November 10, 2009 10:17 > > AM > > > > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: > > > wisteria/lighting > > > > previous > > > > > > question/response revisited > > > > > > > > > > > > << When you say "two strips" do > > you > > > have > > > > two 4' long two-bulb fixtures > > > > > > already or something else?>> > > > > > > > > > > > > i have two 4' single bulb strip > > lights. > > > > > > > > > > > > >> What kind of lighting do you > > > currently > > > > have? Look at the bulbs and > > > > > > >> there should be some kind of > > > writing on > > > > one of the ends. Give us > > > > > > >> that info if you cannot > > decipher > > > it > > > > yourself.<< > > > > > > > > > > > > one bulb is a f40 t10 > > > > > > the other one is a sylvania daylight > > bulb > > > also > > > > f40 > > > > > > > > > > > > >> It's probably 21" tall, since > > a > > > common > > > > measurement for a 75G is > > > > > > >> 48"x18"x21" Tall.>> > > > > > > > > > > > > it is 21 inches tall > > > > > > > > > > > > erika wilmington de usa > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ------------------------------------ > > > > > > > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it > > when > > > replying, Thank > > > > You. > > > > > > > > > ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> > > > > ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , > > .·´¯`·..><((((º> > > > > PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT > > that > > > is NOT > > > > important to the reply & if CHANGING the > > TOPIC of > > > the original message > > > > MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject > > (was > > > re: old subject)" <- > > > > > > > > > <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. > > > > , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. > > > > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this > > matter. > > > > > > > > If you do not want all of the groups emails, > > instead > > > of unsubscribing, > > > > you can change your delivery option by clicking > > on > > > "Edit My > > > > Membership" on the home page. > > > > > > > > Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:aquaticlife-digest%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > to receive the digest, which includes up to 25 > > posts > > > at a time in a > > > > single email > > > > > > > > Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:aquaticlife-nomail%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > for the No E-Mail option where you will still be > > able > > > to read messages > > > > on the group and post replies. > > > > > > > > Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:aquaticlife-normal%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > to receive individual e-mails.Yahoo! Groups > > Links > > > > > > > > > > > > AquaticLife-fullfeatured@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife-fullfeatured%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ------------------------------------ > > > > > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, > > > Thank You. > > > > > ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> > > > ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> > > > PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that > > is > > > NOT important to > > > the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY > > > the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" > > <- > > > > > <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. > > > , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. > > > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. > > > > > > If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead > > of > > > unsubscribing, you > > > can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit > > My > > > Membership" on the > > > home page. > > > > > > Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:aquaticlife-digest%40yahoogroups.com> > > > to receive the digest, which > > > includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email > > > > > > Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:aquaticlife-nomail%40yahoogroups.com> > > > for the No E-Mail option where > > > you will still be able to read messages on the group > > and > > > post replies. > > > > > > Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:aquaticlife-normal%40yahoogroups.com> > > > to receive individual > > > e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ------------------------------------ > > > > > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, > > > Thank You. > > > > > ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> > > > ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> > > > PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that > > is > > > NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC > > of > > > the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> > > i.e. "new > > > subject (was re: old subject)" <- > > > > > <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. > > > , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. > > > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. > > > > > > If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead > > of > > > unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by clicking on > > > "Edit My Membership" on the home page. > > > > > > Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:aquaticlife-digest%40yahoogroups.com> > > > to receive the digest, which includes up to 25 posts > > at a > > > time in a single email > > > > > > Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:aquaticlife-nomail%40yahoogroups.com> > > > for the No E-Mail option where you will still be able > > to > > > read messages on the group and post replies. > > > > > > Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:aquaticlife-normal%40yahoogroups.com> > > > to receive individual e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > > > > AquaticLife-fullfeatured@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife-fullfeatured%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ------------------------------------ > > > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, > > Thank You. > > ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> > > ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> > > PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT > > important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original > > message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old > > subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. > > , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. > > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. > > > > If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of > > unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by clicking on > > "Edit My Membership" on the home page. > > > > Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:aquaticlife-digest%40yahoogroups.com> > > to receive the digest, which > > includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email > > > > Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:aquaticlife-nomail%40yahoogroups.com> > > for the No E-Mail option where > > you will still be able to read messages on the group and post > > replies. > > > > Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:aquaticlife-normal%40yahoogroups.com> > > to receive individual > > e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > > > > > > > ------------------------------------ > > > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, > > Thank You. > > ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> > > ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> > > PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT > > important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original > > message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old > > subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. > > , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. > > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. > > > > If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of > > unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by clicking on > > "Edit My Membership" on the home page. > > > > Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:aquaticlife-digest%40yahoogroups.com> > > to receive the digest, which includes up to 25 posts at a time in a > > single email > > > > Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:aquaticlife-nomail%40yahoogroups.com> > > for the No E-Mail option where you will still be able to read > > messages on the group and post replies. > > > > Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:aquaticlife-normal%40yahoogroups.com> > > to receive individual e-mails.Yahoo! 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Groups Links > > ------------------------------------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the home page. Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com to receive the digest, which includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com for the No E-Mail option where you will still be able to read messages on the group and post replies. Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com to receive individual e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 44453	From: Wendie	Date: 11/12/2009
Subject: Re: Why am I getting these weird messages to this address?

That could be the answer. In checking, I found that mine had been changed from traditional to the new enhanced mail. I changed back to the traditional and will await some emails. Wendie ----- Original Message ----- From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Thursday, November 12, 2009 11:19 AM Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Why am I getting these weird messages to this address? Oops.. I should have read more replies before I sent my previous reply. Since you are getting plain text on your email client (is it Outlook, Outlook Express or other???), NEXT, check to see if you have your Yahoo Group's setting for AquaticLife set to receive Traditional or Enhanced versions. Yahoo did make recent changes to the way the Enhanced mail is formatted so it could be due to this. Go to the http://www.YGroupsBlog.com and read the most recent posts and you will see the changes. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Donna Ransome Sent: Thursday, November 12, 2009 6:42 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Why am I getting these weird messages to this address? Plain text. _____ From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Steve Szabo Sent: Thursday, November 12, 2009 7:10 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Why am I getting these weird messages to this address? It would be interesting to see whose messages are doing this for you. I am not seeing any of this, but I do have my settings for plain text on the Yahoo! lists I belong to, and I have not seen it. Are you receiving plain text only, or do you receive the HTML versions of the messages? \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Donna Ransome Sent: Thursday, November 12, 2009 6:56 AM To: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Why am I getting these weird messages to this address? Just certain ones from this list. Should I look at who the senders have been? _____ From: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Steve Szabo Sent: Wednesday, November 11, 2009 10:40 PM To: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Why am I getting these weird messages to this address? Donna, I'd venture that something is munging the messages along the way from Yahoo! to you. Unless this is happening to others here, it probably is not a Yahoo! problem, but occurring at a point closer to you. Do all your messages come in this way? If not is it happening to just Yahoo! messages, or is it just those from this list? \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Donna Ransome Sent: Wednesday, November 11, 2009 7:54 PM To: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Why am I getting these weird messages to this address? sentto-8495157- <mailto:sentto-8495157-44406-1257953244-djransome%3Doptonline.net%40returns. groups.yahoo> 44406-1257953244- <mailto:44406-1257953244-djransome%3Doptonline.net%40returns.groups.yahoo> djransome=optonline.net@... .com It seems to be associated with aquatic life. This one eventually was from Bill with a bunch of stuff in the header first. _____ From: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Steve Szabo Sent: Wednesday, November 11, 2009 6:43 AM To: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: wisteria/lighting previous question/response revisited Lenny, I don't need no steenkin' hack. In Firefox, the bookmarks are kept as they should be, as one file, not each bookmark in a separate file gobbling up disk space as IE does. It also eats up space in the MFT (Master File Table). For those who do not know about such things, when a drive is formatted to hold data, it is broken up into groups of sectors, known as clusters, the value of which defaults, in Windows, to 4K (4096 bytes). They can be any value from 512 bytes to at least 32K (it may be even larger now, with NTFS (new technology file system, but 32K was the limit under 16 bit DOS). When a file is written to disk, using 4K cluster size for the example, it takes up as many clusters as needed. So, a file that is 32K in size would use 8 clusters (4K x 8). A file that is 28K would use 7 clusters (28 k/4K=7). However, a file that is 29K would use 8 clusters. It would fill the 7 clusters, with an extra 1024 bytes, which are placed in the next, or 8th cluster, leaving 3K of that cluster as being unavailable to another file. Consider now, that each bookmark is generally less than 1K (1024 bytes). When you are using IE (Internet Explorer), that means that you are wasting 3K of each available cluster to store the bookmark as a file. Let us assume you have 400 bookmarks. I am sure you can do the math. That would mean that you have 400 files, each taking up 4K of disk space, meaning that you are using 1600K to store those files. This means that 400 entries are placed in the MFT. In the case of Firefox, and other browsers not based on IE, all the bookmarks are stored in a file. Say that you have the same 400 bookmarks, using 1K as the size of each bookmark, on average, that would mean that you have a file that is 400K in size, which (conveniently, it seems) works out to a 100K file, stored in 25 clusters and 1 entry in the MFT. A great savings in disk space. There are other issues to consider here as well, but I am sure you are plenty bored by know. However, (oh no!, he's going to say more even though he said he was done) please keep in mind that drive manufacturers use a decimal system to calculate drive sizes, so that 250GB drive you have in your box is not 250GB to the computer, which uses a binary system to calculate drive size. That is why, when you look at the drive size through your operating system, the drive appears to be smaller than advertised. It's kind of like that 55 gallon tank that actually holds less than 55 gallons. Tank measurements are measuring the outside dimensions of the tank not the inside dimensions, plus, none of use fills a tank right to the top of the tank, giving us an actual capacity of somewhat less than 55 gallons, and that is before we add substrate and decorations, fish, and plants to the tank, each displacing a certain amount of water. (You may insert your own Archimedes joke here.) (Notice how I actually brought this back onto an aquarium topic?) \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Lenny V. aka GoldLenny Sent: Wednesday, November 11, 2009 1:30 AM To: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: wisteria/lighting previous question/response revisited Yeah... I keep kind of hoping that Google will eventually provide an online "Bookmarks/Favorites" service or homepage add-in, which would also include a search feature and maybe even a way to scan for bad links in the Bookmarks/Favorites instead of finding out when you go to use that long kept bookmark/favorite and the site no longer exists... of course, there's always the Wayback Machine at the Internet Archive http://www.archive. <http://www.archive. <http://www.archive. <http://www.archive.org> org> org> org to find websites/pages that have disappeared from the net. I regularly go into my IE Favorites and use the "Organize Favorites" feature to move things around but also will use Windows Explorer, C:\Documents and Settings\Owner\Favorites\, to look at my Favorites folder and drag and drop, move and rename things around in there. Then, there is this Registry hack to mass sort the Favorites folder, sub-folders and files, instead of having to "Sort By Name" inside each folder. From http://www.theelder <http://www.theelder <http://www.theelder <http://www.theeldergeek.com/sort_favorites_menu_alphabetical.htm> geek.com/sort_favorites_menu_alphabetical.htm> geek.com/sort_favorites_menu_alphabetical.htm> geek.com/sort_favorites_menu_alphabetical.htm (with some added instructions by me to clarify some things). Sort Favorites Menu Alphabetically [Start] [Run] [Regedit] Registry Key: HKEY_CURRENT_USER\Software\Microsoft\Windows\CurrentVersion\Explorer\MenuOrd er\Favorites (Click on Favorites to highlight, then in the view panel) Right click the Favorites key *Order* and click Delete Exit registry and reboot. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> blogspot.com> blogspot.com> blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Steve Szabo Sent: Tuesday, November 10, 2009 11:43 PM To: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: wisteria/lighting previous question/response revisited Lenny, I have a couple of problems. First, I do have a lot of folders and sub folders for things, and try to use them. However, I can also be pressed for time, and just bookmark it, thinking I'll fix it later. Somehow, later comes even later than one would expect, and when it does arrive, I do a bunch, but never finish going through the list. The other problem is that what made sense at the time, may not make sense when I am looking for the bookmark, possible because I a thinking about the topic in a different way than when I bookmarked the site. It is kind of like how one searches the web. If your first key words do not provide what you are looking for, you modify those terms and search again. Same topic, a bit different way of looking at it. Eventually, you will get what you want. What I probably need is a bookmark search engine. For those of you who were born and weaned with Windows, bookmarks is the correct term, not Microsoft's Favorites, though, I must admit, it is possible to have favorite bookmarks. \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Lenny V. aka GoldLenny Sent: Tuesday, November 10, 2009 11:57 PM To: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: wisteria/lighting previous question/response revisited Bookmarks and Favorites are filing systems... if you don't know how/where it's filed, you won't find it anyhow. I have an extensive Favorites folder with dozens of primary folders and then dozens if not hundreds of sub-folders and sub-sub-folders, for example, under Favorites, I have 59 primary folders and one of them is called Aquarium Sites, then, in that folder, I have 44 alphabetized sub-folders just in that folder, from Additives and Algae to Tutorials-Quizzes and UGF Filters (no V,W,X,Y,Z sub-folders under Aquarium... not sure why not). Then in the Algae folder, I have 7 sub-sub-folders dealing with topics such as Algae Eaters, Allelopathic Control, Diatoms-Brown Algae, Hair Algae, Hydrogen Peroxide, Pond Algae, SeaChem Flourish Excel For Treating Algae and then 11 other favorites about Algae in general, for a total of 48 links, just about Algae. My Favorites folder, when looking at its Properties, is 1.41MB in size and consists of 2,057 files (links) and 306 folders (incl. sub and sub-sub folders) in totality. Many years of surfing and saving and starting off with an organizational plan from the start makes it easy for me to navigate and find things easily. My Favorites is like a mini-Google. ;-) I have been toying around with the idea of using a web resource to keep my Favorites folder online so I can sync it with all of my computers and/or just use it as an online Favorites folder that I can log into from any computer. For now, I use LogMeIn (Free) to connect to my main computer from my laptop when I'm out in the streets playing... oops.. I meant working. But I don't think I'd share my Favorites or then I'd have to go in and edit out all my favorite porn links... well, maybe not for Bill. LOL Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> blogspot.com> blogspot.com> blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Amber Berglund Sent: Tuesday, November 10, 2009 10:25 PM To: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: wisteria/lighting previous question/response revisited No worries Bill, I do the same thing, maybe Lenny will be so kind as to send us all his bookmarks? LOL Amber bill 1433 wrote: > > Yes, Amber > > It was I, looking for the original information and also looked back on > \\Steve//'s post at group to try and find. Ray had mentioned all this > the other day saying that he thought the posting came from \\Steve//. > > I was not successful in my search. Also, for me the most important > part was a link to a chart which showed you exactly, or explained > exactly the "T" factor stands for. For instance, T-4 would be a tube > that is a half inch wide, or close to it-----------I think. All this > is my own fault. In my interest to acquire and learn about lighting,I > went through and studied the applied links but being ol'bill, I never > bookmarked them. Then to further compound the problem, I deleted the > original message that it came from. In hind-sight you could probably > chalk this all up to felonious stupidity on my part. > > Bill---where its always a good day if I learn something new! > > --- On Tue, 11/10/09, Amber Berglund <arberglund@gmail. <mailto:arberglund%40gmail.com> com > <mailto:arberglund%40gmail.com>> wrote: > > From: Amber Berglund <arberglund@gmail. > <mailto:arberglund%40gmail.com> com > <mailto:arberglund%40gmail.com>> > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: wisteria/lighting previous > question/response revisited > To: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Date: Tuesday, November 10, 2009, 9:30 PM > > I believe it was Steve who posted a link about lumens months back when > (I think it was maybe Bill asking) about lighting for planted aquariums. > Plants require 2 different spectrums of light to properly produce > either leaves or flowers (red is more for flower production and blue > is more for growth, but for the best growing you want a mixture of > BOTH colors). > So in reality you would want a light that appears more brown/reddish > in coloring and a blue/white coloring as well, but they now have bulbs > that have BOTH spectrums built in (I'm sure they don't work as well as > it would to have 2 different bulbs one mostly red and the other mostly > blue on the color spectrum). > Let me see if I still have the link bookmarked. > What I was trying to say is that Kelvin does not tell you what color > spectrum the light REALLY is, it's actually measuring it's light > output color according to how the human eyes perceive it. So 6500 > kelvin in general is what most plants will prefer because that is a > mixture of both red and blue spectrums (In MOST bulbs) unfortunately > not all light bulb manufactures have to use the exact same chart for > their colors, so they will have different colors than another bulb > that says it's 6500 Kelvin. what you really need to read is the color > chart on the box, not what lumens it says it is. > (still searching for link, LOL). > > This isn't the right link but it discusses the kelvin/lumen problems a > little bit, still looking for the link that showed the charts and what > to look for in the color charts. > http://www.american <http://www.american <http://www.american <http://www.americanaquariumproducts.com/Aquarium_Lighting.html> aquariumproducts.com/Aquarium_Lighting.html> aquariumproducts.com/Aquarium_Lighting.html> aquariumproducts.com/Aquarium_Lighting.html > <http://www.american <http://www.american <http://www.american <http://www.americanaquariumproducts.com/Aquarium_Lighting.html> aquariumproducts.com/Aquarium_Lighting.html> aquariumproducts.com/Aquarium_Lighting.html> aquariumproducts.com/Aquarium_Lighting.html> > > Will post again when I find the other link with chart examples. > > Amber > > Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > > > > I think it would be false advertising or possibly mis-advertising > (if they > > do not know any better) if a company lists their bulbs as 6500K and > > they aren't. The Kelvin scale, just like Watts and Lumens, are ALL > > universal and scientifically measurable scales BUT, as I showed > > below, not all 40 watt bulbs put out the same amount of light > > (lumens) or in the same color spectrum (Kelvin rating). All 40 watt > > bulbs, whether incandescent, fluorescent, CFL, LED, Halogen, etc.... > > ALL use only/around 40 watts of electricity but their light output > > can vary dramatically. This is why fluorescent bulbs are so much > > more efficient than incandescent bulbs and CFL's are even more > > efficient... as a 40W fluorescent bulb puts out > a LOT > > more light (lumens) than a 40 watt incandescent bulb and a 40W CFL > > puts out more light (lumens) than a 40W fluorescent bulb. This is > > why the OLD "Watts Per Gallon" rule simply does not work any more. > > > > BUT.. if three different companies are selling standard T-10 > > fluorescent bulbs with the same exact rating of 40W, 3550 lumens and > > 6500K rating... all three of those bulbs should be VERY SIMILAR if > > not identical in the way they appear to our eyes (subject to our own > > degree of color blindness, of > > course!) > > > > In the past, things like "soft white", "warm white", "daylight", > > "plant grow", etc., type terms were used and are still used but > > those are just simple words (not subject to a scientific scale) to > > describe the Kelvin rating ranges but lumens are just as important > > since a bulb could have a 6500K rating with only 2200 lumens where > > another bulb could have a 6500K rating and 3550 or 3700 lumens and > > that bulb would put out over 50% more light (lumens) in the same > > color spectrum (Kelvin rating) so it > would be a > > much more cost effective bulb if it cost the same amount or only a > little > > more. > > > > I'm slightly confused about the "red and blue light for your plants" > > as those two colors are on opposite ends of the Kelvin Scale with > > reds and ambers in the lower numbers and greens and blues in the > > higher > numbers. I > > think this is why you would want a mid-range (5000K to 6500K) bulb > > as those are generally considered "full spectrum" or "daylight" > > bulbs. Here's a color picture of the Kelvin Scale, > > http://www.bltdirec <http://www.bltdirec <http://www.bltdirec <http://www.bltdirect.com/images/colour-temperature.jpg> t.com/images/colour-temperature.jpg> t.com/images/colour-temperature.jpg> t.com/images/colour-temperature.jpg > <http://www.bltdirec <http://www.bltdirec <http://www.bltdirec <http://www.bltdirect.com/images/colour-temperature.jpg> t.com/images/colour-temperature.jpg> t.com/images/colour-temperature.jpg> t.com/images/colour-temperature.jpg> > > <http://www.bltdirec <http://www.bltdirec <http://www.bltdirec <http://www.bltdirect.com/images/colour-temperature.jpg> t.com/images/colour-temperature.jpg> t.com/images/colour-temperature.jpg> t.com/images/colour-temperature.jpg > <http://www.bltdirec <http://www.bltdirec <http://www.bltdirec <http://www.bltdirect.com/images/colour-temperature.jpg> t.com/images/colour-temperature.jpg> t.com/images/colour-temperature.jpg> t.com/images/colour-temperature.jpg>> and you can > > visually > > see that the 5000K to 6500K range is all about the same "color". I > > think this is also why Actinic bulbs are usually higher and closer > > to the > 10000K > > range and up... apparently, the Kelvin lighting scale can go up to > 20,000K > > (according to this article about Reef Tanks http://nh.craigslis > > <http://nh.craigslis <http://nh.craigslis <http://nh.craigslist.org/for/1423072406.html> t.org/for/1423072406.html> t.org/for/1423072406.html> t.org/for/1423072406.html > <http://nh.craigslis <http://nh.craigslis <http://nh.craigslis <http://nh.craigslist.org/for/1423072406.html> t.org/for/1423072406.html> t.org/for/1423072406.html> t.org/for/1423072406.html> > > <http://nh.craigslis <http://nh.craigslis <http://nh.craigslis <http://nh.craigslist.org/for/1423072406.html> t.org/for/1423072406.html> t.org/for/1423072406.html> t.org/for/1423072406.html > <http://nh.craigslis <http://nh.craigslis <http://nh.craigslis <http://nh.craigslist.org/for/1423072406.html> t.org/for/1423072406.html> t.org/for/1423072406.html> t.org/for/1423072406.html>> on, of all places, > > Craigslist). > > Here is the page that that the above photo link came from and it has > > a chart that also explains things a little more also and talks about > > the > CRI, yet > > another lighting term (Color Rendition Index). > > http://www.bltdirec <http://www.bltdirec <http://www.bltdirec <http://www.bltdirect.com/lampColourTemperatures.php> t.com/lampColourTemperatures.php> t.com/lampColourTemperatures.php> t.com/lampColourTemperatures.php > <http://www.bltdirec <http://www.bltdirec <http://www.bltdirec <http://www.bltdirect.com/lampColourTemperatures.php> t.com/lampColourTemperatures.php> t.com/lampColourTemperatures.php> t.com/lampColourTemperatures.php> > > <http://www.bltdirec <http://www.bltdirec <http://www.bltdirec <http://www.bltdirect.com/lampColourTemperatures.php> t.com/lampColourTemperatures.php> t.com/lampColourTemperatures.php> t.com/lampColourTemperatures.php > <http://www.bltdirec <http://www.bltdirec <http://www.bltdirec <http://www.bltdirect.com/lampColourTemperatures.php> t.com/lampColourTemperatures.php> t.com/lampColourTemperatures.php> t.com/lampColourTemperatures.php>> > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> blogspot.com> blogspot.com> blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> blogspot.com> blogspot.com> blogspot.com> <http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> blogspot.com> blogspot.com> blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> blogspot.com> blogspot.com> blogspot.com>> > > (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the > > right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by > > Year, > Month) > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > [mailto:AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On Behalf Of Amber Berglund > > Sent: Tuesday, November 10, 2009 4:22 PM > > To: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: wisteria/lighting previous > > question/response revisited > > > > Another thing to consider is one light company's 6500 kelvin rating > > may not be identical to another light bulb from a different company > > that's rated the same. The important thing to look at is the color > > chart they show on the boxes, you want more red and blue light for > > your plants, green is not useful or harmful as the plants reflect > > the light back (makes them appear more green but does nothing else > > for them). The kelvin rating is based on our eyes and how they > > perceive color, so each company doesn't have to be identical, > > perhaps some day they will have a universal way to measure light > > spectrums on bulbs that is much less confusing. > > > > Amber > > > > Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > > > > > > OK. So you have a total of 80 watts right now, which is just over > > > 1 WPG, which means you only have enough lighting for low-light, > > > easy to grow plants. See my blog article "Planted Tank: So You > > > Want A Planted Tank" for links to lists of low-light, easy to grow > > > plants that will do OK in your tank. You should replace those > > > tubes at least yearly... > > > although some say every six months. As far as I know, a 40W bulb > > > is the highest wattage made for this type of bulb/fixture right > > > now but you can increase your lighting > > > (lumens) and K (Kelvin) rating. See below. > > > > > > NOTE - below links are for example/informational purposes only, as > > > I know nothing about the sites. God... did I just say that? Do I > > > really have to add disclaimers to my posts now? LOL Just laughing > > > at myself. > > > LOL > > > > > > This may be your Sylvania bulb... > > > http://www.lightbul <http://www.lightbul <http://www.lightbul <http://www.lightbulbemporium.com/proddetail.asp?prod=F40/EX50> bemporium.com/proddetail.asp?prod=F40/EX50> bemporium.com/proddetail.asp?prod=F40/EX50> bemporium.com/proddetail.asp?prod=F40/EX50 > <http://www.lightbul <http://www.lightbul <http://www.lightbul <http://www.lightbulbemporium.com/proddetail.asp?prod=F40/EX50> bemporium.com/proddetail.asp?prod=F40/EX50> bemporium.com/proddetail.asp?prod=F40/EX50> bemporium.com/proddetail.asp?prod=F40/EX50> > > <http://www.lightbul <http://www.lightbul <http://www.lightbul <http://www.lightbulbemporium.com/proddetail.asp?prod=F40/EX50> bemporium.com/proddetail.asp?prod=F40/EX50> bemporium.com/proddetail.asp?prod=F40/EX50> bemporium.com/proddetail.asp?prod=F40/EX50 > <http://www.lightbul <http://www.lightbul <http://www.lightbul <http://www.lightbulbemporium.com/proddetail.asp?prod=F40/EX50> bemporium.com/proddetail.asp?prod=F40/EX50> bemporium.com/proddetail.asp?prod=F40/EX50> bemporium.com/proddetail.asp?prod=F40/EX50>> > > > <http://www.lightbul <http://www.lightbul <http://www.lightbul <http://www.lightbulbemporium.com/proddetail.asp?prod=F40/EX50> bemporium.com/proddetail.asp?prod=F40/EX50> bemporium.com/proddetail.asp?prod=F40/EX50> bemporium.com/proddetail.asp?prod=F40/EX50 > <http://www.lightbul <http://www.lightbul <http://www.lightbul <http://www.lightbulbemporium.com/proddetail.asp?prod=F40/EX50> bemporium.com/proddetail.asp?prod=F40/EX50> bemporium.com/proddetail.asp?prod=F40/EX50> bemporium.com/proddetail.asp?prod=F40/EX50> > > <http://www.lightbul <http://www.lightbul <http://www.lightbul <http://www.lightbulbemporium.com/proddetail.asp?prod=F40/EX50> bemporium.com/proddetail.asp?prod=F40/EX50> bemporium.com/proddetail.asp?prod=F40/EX50> bemporium.com/proddetail.asp?prod=F40/EX50 > <http://www.lightbul <http://www.lightbul <http://www.lightbul <http://www.lightbulbemporium.com/proddetail.asp?prod=F40/EX50> bemporium.com/proddetail.asp?prod=F40/EX50> bemporium.com/proddetail.asp?prod=F40/EX50> bemporium.com/proddetail.asp?prod=F40/EX50>>> and > if > > > it is, then it's the same ratings as the specs in the T-10 bulb > > > that I copy/pasted below, which is a pretty good bulb with higher > > > lumens and the higher K rating, although not a 6500K rated bulb. > > > At the bottom of this page, there was a link to this bulb... > > > > > > http://www.lightbul <http://www.lightbul <http://www.lightbul <http://www.lightbulbemporium.com/maxlite_51204_ml_f40t10_850_rscg.asp> bemporium.com/maxlite_51204_ml_f40t10_850_rscg.asp> bemporium.com/maxlite_51204_ml_f40t10_850_rscg.asp> bemporium.com/maxlite_51204_ml_f40t10_850_rscg.asp > <http://www.lightbul <http://www.lightbul <http://www.lightbul <http://www.lightbulbemporium.com/maxlite_51204_ml_f40t10_850_rscg.asp> bemporium.com/maxlite_51204_ml_f40t10_850_rscg.asp> bemporium.com/maxlite_51204_ml_f40t10_850_rscg.asp> bemporium.com/maxlite_51204_ml_f40t10_850_rscg.asp > > > > > <http://www.lightbul <http://www.lightbul <http://www.lightbul <http://www.lightbulbemporium.com/maxlite_51204_ml_f40t10_850_rscg.asp> bemporium.com/maxlite_51204_ml_f40t10_850_rscg.asp> bemporium.com/maxlite_51204_ml_f40t10_850_rscg.asp> bemporium.com/maxlite_51204_ml_f40t10_850_rscg.asp > <http://www.lightbul <http://www.lightbul <http://www.lightbul <http://www.lightbulbemporium.com/maxlite_51204_ml_f40t10_850_rscg.asp> bemporium.com/maxlite_51204_ml_f40t10_850_rscg.asp> bemporium.com/maxlite_51204_ml_f40t10_850_rscg.asp> bemporium.com/maxlite_51204_ml_f40t10_850_rscg.asp > >> > > > > > > <http://www.lightbul <http://www.lightbul <http://www.lightbul <http://www.lightbulbemporium.com/maxlite_51204_ml_f40t10_850_rscg.asp> bemporium.com/maxlite_51204_ml_f40t10_850_rscg.asp> bemporium.com/maxlite_51204_ml_f40t10_850_rscg.asp> bemporium.com/maxlite_51204_ml_f40t10_850_rscg.asp > <http://www.lightbul <http://www.lightbul <http://www.lightbul <http://www.lightbulbemporium.com/maxlite_51204_ml_f40t10_850_rscg.asp> bemporium.com/maxlite_51204_ml_f40t10_850_rscg.asp> bemporium.com/maxlite_51204_ml_f40t10_850_rscg.asp> bemporium.com/maxlite_51204_ml_f40t10_850_rscg.asp > > > > > <http://www.lightbul <http://www.lightbul <http://www.lightbul <http://www.lightbulbemporium.com/maxlite_51204_ml_f40t10_850_rscg.asp> bemporium.com/maxlite_51204_ml_f40t10_850_rscg.asp> bemporium.com/maxlite_51204_ml_f40t10_850_rscg.asp> bemporium.com/maxlite_51204_ml_f40t10_850_rscg.asp > <http://www.lightbul <http://www.lightbul <http://www.lightbul <http://www.lightbulbemporium.com/maxlite_51204_ml_f40t10_850_rscg.asp> bemporium.com/maxlite_51204_ml_f40t10_850_rscg.asp> bemporium.com/maxlite_51204_ml_f40t10_850_rscg.asp> bemporium.com/maxlite_51204_ml_f40t10_850_rscg.asp > >> > > > > > > > which > > > has an even higher lumen rating of 3700, although not much higher > > > than the 3550 rating but every little bit helps especially since > > > the MaxLite bulb was a lower price than the Sylvania bulb. > > > > > > As you will see on this page > > > > > > http://www.lightbul <http://www.lightbul <http://www.lightbul <http://www.lightbulbsdirect.com/Merchant2/merchant.mvc?page=001/CTGY/F> bsdirect.com/Merchant2/merchant.mvc?page=001/CTGY/F> bsdirect.com/Merchant2/merchant.mvc?page=001/CTGY/F> bsdirect.com/Merchant2/merchant.mvc?page=001/CTGY/F > <http://www.lightbul <http://www.lightbul <http://www.lightbul <http://www.lightbulbsdirect.com/Merchant2/merchant.mvc?page=001/CTGY/> bsdirect.com/Merchant2/merchant.mvc?page=001/CTGY/> bsdirect.com/Merchant2/merchant.mvc?page=001/CTGY/> bsdirect.com/Merchant2/merchant.mvc?page=001/CTGY/ > F> > > > <http://www.lightbul <http://www.lightbul <http://www.lightbul <http://www.lightbulbsdirect.com/Merchant2/merchant.mvc?page=001/CTGY/> bsdirect.com/Merchant2/merchant.mvc?page=001/CTGY/> bsdirect.com/Merchant2/merchant.mvc?page=001/CTGY/> bsdirect.com/Merchant2/merchant.mvc?page=001/CTGY/ > F > <http://www.lightbul <http://www.lightbul <http://www.lightbul <http://www.lightbulbsdirect.com/Merchant2/merchant.mvc?page=001/CTGY/> bsdirect.com/Merchant2/merchant.mvc?page=001/CTGY/> bsdirect.com/Merchant2/merchant.mvc?page=001/CTGY/> bsdirect.com/Merchant2/merchant.mvc?page=001/CTGY/ > F>> > > > S+Fluo > > > > > > <http://www.lightbul <http://www.lightbul <http://www.lightbul <http://www.lightbulbsdirect.com/Merchant2/merchant.mvc?page=001/CTGY/> bsdirect.com/Merchant2/merchant.mvc?page=001/CTGY/> bsdirect.com/Merchant2/merchant.mvc?page=001/CTGY/> bsdirect.com/Merchant2/merchant.mvc?page=001/CTGY/ > <http://www.lightbul <http://www.lightbul <http://www.lightbul <http://www.lightbulbsdirect.com/Merchant2/merchant.mvc?page=001/CTGY/> bsdirect.com/Merchant2/merchant.mvc?page=001/CTGY/> bsdirect.com/Merchant2/merchant.mvc?page=001/CTGY/> bsdirect.com/Merchant2/merchant.mvc?page=001/CTGY/ > > > > > <http://www.lightbul <http://www.lightbul <http://www.lightbul <http://www.lightbulbsdirect.com/Merchant2/merchant.mvc?page=001/CTGY/> bsdirect.com/Merchant2/merchant.mvc?page=001/CTGY/> bsdirect.com/Merchant2/merchant.mvc?page=001/CTGY/> bsdirect.com/Merchant2/merchant.mvc?page=001/CTGY/ > <http://www.lightbul <http://www.lightbul <http://www.lightbul <http://www.lightbulbsdirect.com/Merchant2/merchant.mvc?page=001/CTGY/> bsdirect.com/Merchant2/merchant.mvc?page=001/CTGY/> bsdirect.com/Merchant2/merchant.mvc?page=001/CTGY/> bsdirect.com/Merchant2/merchant.mvc?page=001/CTGY/ > >> > > > FS+Fluo> > > > rescent > > > > > > The second bulb down would be similar to yours, except we do not > > > know the lumen or color spectrum rating on your bulb, unless that > > > link I gave above is actually your bulb and then it would be the > > > same as this one. The specs on it are: > > > > > > T-10 Fluorescent > > > 40 Watts > > > Length: 48" > > > Medium Bi-Pin Base > > > Color: 5000K Temperature > > > Initial Lumens: 3550 > > > CRI: 84 > > > Average Life: 20,000 Hours > > > > > > The Color spectrum of 5000K (Kelvin) is OK but 6500K would be much > > better. > > > The Lumens of 3550 is the actual amount of *light* > > > > > > The next bulb down from that one is a T-12, which will also fit in > > > your fixture but they are bigger diameter bulbs and this one > > > actually puts out less light (lumens). Here are the specs: > > > > > > T-12 Fluorescent > > > 40 Watts > > > Length: 48" > > > Base: Medium Bi-Pin Base > > > Initial Lumens: 2200 > > > Average Life: 20,000 Hours > > > Color Temperature: 5000K > > > CRI: 92 > > > > > > It has the same Color spectrum but only 2200 lumens so the above > > > T-10 bulb has around 50% more lumens (light) coming out of it. > > > > > > Now, if you scroll down to the second from the bottom on the page, > > > you'll see the Verilux Instant-Sun T-12 bulb which has a higher > > > Kelvin rating but it doesn't list the lumens so this needs to be > > > checked out further. While the higher K rating is good, if it goes > > > back down to only 2200 lumens, instead of the 3550 lumens of the > > > first referenced bulb above, then I would probably go with the > > > 3550 lumens, 5000K bulb over the 6280K bulb if the lumens were a > > > LOT less. > > > > > > (START SNIP) > > > Engineered to reproduce all the colors and balance of natural > > > light, VeriluxR full spectrum fluorescent tubes feature Trucolite > > > Phosphor TechnologyT which includes the use of a stable, custom > > > blend of earth phosphors that create bright, balanced full > > > spectrum light. > > > T-12 Fluorescent > > > 40 Watts > > > Length: 48" > > > Color Temperature: 6280K > > > CRI: 94 > > > Medium Bi-Pin Base > > > (END SNIP) > > > > > > So, as you can see, there's a few things to look for when shopping > > > for new replacement bulbs. Look for the 5000K to 6500K bulbs with > > > the higher lumen rating for the dollar and you should be good. > > > Note that a 3550 or 3700 lumen bulb will put out nearly twice as > > > much light as a 2000 lumen bulb so it can be easy to increase your > > > lighting without increasing the wattage. DO NOT try to use HO or > > > VHO bulbs... which look similar but have much higher wattage, well > > > over the 40W bulbs you now have. These other HO and VHO bulbs have > > > different pin arrangements so they will not fit in your fixture > > > anyhow but I just wanted to save you a trip. > > > > > > Last but not least, if you're handy, you could even take the bulbs > > > out of your fixtures and line the insides of your fixtures with > > > nice and crisp and flat aluminum foil (shiny side exposed) which > > > will also help. Using double stick tape and then carefully > > > applying the foil so it does not wrinkle too much will work > > > well... especially if the inside of your fixture is black. A white > > > reflector is good but a mirrored reflector, like that created by > > > the shiny side of foil, is MUCH better than a black reflector. > > > Most black fixtures do at least have white reflector areas. > > > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> blogspot.com> blogspot.com> blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> blogspot.com> blogspot.com> blogspot.com> > > <http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> blogspot.com> blogspot.com> blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> blogspot.com> blogspot.com> blogspot.com>> > > > <http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> blogspot.com> blogspot.com> blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> blogspot.com> blogspot.com> blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> blogspot.com> blogspot.com> blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> blogspot.com> blogspot.com> blogspot.com>>> > > (Links to any articles referenced in > > > above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under > > > Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > From: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > [mailto:AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On Behalf Of > > > erikaandnewton > > > Sent: Tuesday, November 10, 2009 10:17 AM > > > To: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: wisteria/lighting previous > > > question/response revisited > > > > > > << When you say "two strips" do you have two 4' long two-bulb > > > fixtures already or something else?>> > > > > > > i have two 4' single bulb strip lights. > > > > > > >> What kind of lighting do you currently have? Look at the bulbs > > > >> and there should be some kind of writing on one of the ends. > > > >> Give us that info if you cannot decipher it yourself.<< > > > > > > one bulb is a f40 t10 > > > the other one is a sylvania daylight bulb also f40 > > > > > > >> It's probably 21" tall, since a common measurement for a 75G is > > > >> 48"x18"x21" Tall.>> > > > > > > it is 21 inches tall > > > > > > erika wilmington de usa [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] ------------------------------------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. 74/`7.88.><((((:>.74/`7.88.74/`7.8><((((:> 8.74/`7.8. , .74/`7..><((((:> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <:((((><.74/`7.88.74/`7.8<:((((><8.74/`7.8. , .74/`7..<:((((><74/`7.88. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the home page. Or e-mail aquaticlife- <mailto:aquaticlife-digest%40yahoogroups.com> digest@yahoogroups.com to receive the digest, which includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email Or email aquaticlife- <mailto:aquaticlife-nomail%40yahoogroups.com> nomail@yahoogroups.com for the No E-Mail option where you will still be able to read messages on the group and post replies. Or email aquaticlife- <mailto:aquaticlife-normal%40yahoogroups.com> normal@yahoogroups.com to receive individual e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] ------------------------------------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. 74/`7.88.><((((:>.74/`7.88.74/`7.8><((((:> 8.74/`7.8. , .74/`7..><((((:> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <:((((><.74/`7.88.74/`7.8<:((((><8.74/`7.8. , .74/`7..<:((((><74/`7.88. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the home page. Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com to receive the digest, which includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com for the No E-Mail option where you will still be able to read messages on the group and post replies. Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com to receive individual e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 44454	From: Rev. Eric Roberts	Date: 11/12/2009
Subject: Re: Why am I getting these weird messages to this address?

I send both. This way, those that like HTML email (like me) can have that and those that don't get their silly text hehehe Eric From: bill 1433 Sent: Thursday, November 12, 2009 9:07 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Why am I getting these weird messages to this address? If you mean me, Bill from warrenprint, I am not. All messages from all groups are set up as "traditional" and individual mail. I would suggest running your Virus ware as well as a full system checkdisk to repair. But this entire matter could very well be as suggested, from Yahoo Mail itself. I have received some from time to time also of issue is the sending plain or rich text. Remember a few months ago, everything I sent into group had those funny A's in the messages? Again,Yahoo coding. I now send all in plain text without issue. It might be a "THEM" and not us issue. Bill --- On Thu, 11/12/09, Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@...> wrote: > From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@...> > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Why am I getting these weird messages to this address? > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Date: Thursday, November 12, 2009, 3:50 AM > That looks like Bill is getting his > emails in the HTML enhanced version of > Group mail (rather than the plain text, traditional version > that I choose to > get from Groups) and then when he replies, it looks like he > might be sending > out in plain text so all the HTML stuff is not rendered > into the HTML > formatting... or possibly when you receive it, it's not > rendering. > > At least that explains most of the stuff below but I'm > surprised to see > header info showing up also. > > If you change your own Group preferences to receive > Traditional instead of > the Enhanced version, it makes for a better *experience*, > with a lot less > junk and smaller email size, IMO. Yahoo went to the > Enhanced version as a > way of getting HTML advertisements into the body of emails, > in a sidebar, > whereas, with the Traditional version, at most, I'll get a > line or two all > the way down by the footer area, below all the unsubscribe > stuff so I never > see it. > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed > on the right > side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives > by Year, Month) > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] > On > Behalf Of Donna Ransome > Sent: Wednesday, November 11, 2009 9:34 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Why am I getting these weird > messages to this > address? > > Legitimate question. Here is what it looks > like. I've gotten maybe half > dozen of these over the last couple days: > > > > (There is more, but hopefully this will give you the > idea.) > > > > > > R6BbIk_TOIW0yRKMSSUqGYEEvYO93d5dwihO4yFSxSajXxdeuvwiy4q1hTkIRm7pzCKU5ps0NvmC > KSGWlkpYYiG4YVrgpGJoSwVL.pB4eb3yRhqaQabTL7mJNYGdnt.dONGY6J3BXXgDcsTS_MP_7APv > hKmdp4DA4n34jY0js4Ly8zY1nWOGZbKybPRssD99x3kUBoqDmR5IqbkSd8- > > X-Received: from [72.70.208.210] by > web45112.mail.sp1.yahoo.com via HTTP; > Wed, 11 Nov 2009 07:38:27 PST > > X-Mailer: YahooMailClassic/8.1.6 > YahooMailWebService/0.7.361.4 > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > In-Reply-To: > <9F5597BD59E74213B3E087F5E376EEEF@LVDESKTOP> > > X-Originating-IP: 68.180.197.148 > > X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 2:4:8:0:2 > > From: bill 1433 <warrenprint@...> > > X-Yahoo-Profile: warrenprint > > Sender: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > MIME-Version: 1.0 > > Mailing-List: list AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com; > contact > AquaticLife-owner@yahoogroups.com > > Delivered-To: mailing list AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > List-Id: <AquaticLife.yahoogroups.com> > > Precedence: bulk > > List-Unsubscribe: < <mailto:AquaticLife-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com> > mailto:AquaticLife-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com> > > Date: Wed, 11 Nov 2009 07:38:27 -0800 (PST) > > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: wisteria/lighting previous > question/response > revisited > > Reply-To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: groups-email-ff-m > > Content-Type: multipart/alternative; > > boundary="w73BVY8hfJ71PIIRpG706SKFxOHorY0hn30bZMq" > > > > --w73BVY8hfJ71PIIRpG706SKFxOHorY0hn30bZMq > > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 > > Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable > > > > I'd like to extend a big "THANK YOU" to=20 > > "Amber Berglund" on group for opening this can of worms! > > > > Thanks Again Amber! > > > > Bill <g> ya did it again girl! > > > > > > > > _____ > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] > On > Behalf Of Lenny V. aka GoldLenny > Sent: Wednesday, November 11, 2009 9:16 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Why am I getting these weird > messages to this > address? > > > > > > Donna, > > Is this your way of saying "Get back on topic boys!" or > were you asking > about the snip of header info that you posted? I can't tell > if you're being > sarcastic towards us about bringing up Bookmarks and > browser stuff... or > asking a legitimate question. LOL > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> blogspot.com > (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed > on the right > side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives > by Year, Month) > > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@ > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > yahoogroups.com > [mailto:AquaticLife@ > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > yahoogroups.com] > On > Behalf Of Donna Ransome > Sent: Wednesday, November 11, 2009 6:54 PM > To: AquaticLife@ > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > yahoogroups.com > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Why am I getting these weird > messages to this > address? > > sentto-8495157- > <mailto:sentto-8495157-44406-1257953244-djransome%3Doptonline.net%40returns. > groups.yahoo> 44406-1257953244-djransome=optonline.net@... > .com > > It seems to be associated with aquatic life. This one > eventually was from > Bill with a bunch of stuff in the header first. > > _____ > > From: AquaticLife@ > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > yahoogroups.com > [mailto:AquaticLife@ > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > yahoogroups.com] > On > Behalf Of Steve Szabo > Sent: Wednesday, November 11, 2009 6:43 AM > To: AquaticLife@ > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > yahoogroups.com > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: wisteria/lighting previous > question/response > revisited > > Lenny, > > I don't need no steenkin' hack. In Firefox, the bookmarks > are kept as they > should be, as one file, not each bookmark in a separate > file gobbling up > disk space as IE does. It also eats up space in the MFT > (Master File Table). > (SNIPPED) > > > > ------------------------------------ > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when > replying, Thank You. > ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> > ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> > PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is > NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of > the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new > subject (was re: old subject)" <- > <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. > , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. > > If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of > unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by > clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the home page. > > Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com > to receive the digest, which includes up to 25 posts at a > time in a single email > > Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com > for the No E-Mail option where you will still be able to > read messages on the group and post replies. > > Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com > to receive individual e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links > > > AquaticLife-fullfeatured@yahoogroups.com > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 44455	From: Rev. Eric Roberts	Date: 11/12/2009
Subject: Re: wisteria/lighting previous question/response revisited

If it is a standard hood...any of the pet stores and even the larger hardware stores like Lowes should carry them. I have never had a problem finding them. You can also order online... Another good source would be a lighting/electrical store. Eric From: bill 1433 Sent: Thursday, November 12, 2009 8:59 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: wisteria/lighting previous question/response revisited Yes Len, But its finding that size tube with more of anything that's the problem. Bill --- On Wed, 11/11/09, Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@...> wrote: > From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@...> > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: wisteria/lighting previous question/response revisited > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Date: Wednesday, November 11, 2009, 5:22 PM > Well, if you only have 17W, then you > could definitely do better with the > 20W, higher lumen, better K rating bulbs that I > mentioned. Considering the > lumen ratings of fluorescent bulbs I've looked at, your 17W > bulbs might only > have 500-700 lumens where the BEST 20W bulb (below) has > 1075 lumens so you > could possibly increase your lighting by 50% to 100% just > by changing to > that bulb. At least, with that bulb, you'll be in the > low-light range for > plants on the 20G but the 29G will need some work. > > Of course, you should find out what the lumens and K > ratings are on the > bulbs you have so you'll know if you are getting a small > jump or a BIG jump > in lighting just by changing your bulbs. Check your > local WalMart for > bulbs. My nearby WalMart SuperCenter has a really big > assortment of > fluorescent tubes and they were cheaper than the Home > Depot. > > Something else I'm thinking about for you is going with 18" > light-sticks on > each end of your 29G tank or front or back (back would hide > it best but you > decide your best aesthetics) and you'd have to make a DIY > reflector for it > (white poster board and scotch tape would work) and that > would get more > lighting down to the bottom level plants in the 29G. > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed > on the right > side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives > by Year, Month) > > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] > On > Behalf Of bill 1433 > Sent: Wednesday, November 11, 2009 3:42 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: wisteria/lighting previous > question/response > revisited > > It is what it is type of thing Len. Site says one > thing but stamped or > printed right on the tube is at 17 watts. > > Bill > > --- On Wed, 11/11/09, Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@...> > wrote: > > > From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@...> > > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: wisteria/lighting > previous > > question/response revisited > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > Date: Wednesday, November 11, 2009, 2:16 PM The > problem might be this > > statement in the description... > > > > "... Hoods include 8000ºK bulb... ...20W, 24"..." > > > > That's getting into the higher green/blue Kelvin > range... > > closer to the > > 10,000K actinic type bulbs... than the 5000K to 6500K > "Daylight" bulbs > > that provide full spectrum lighting. It's also only > a 20W bulb > > (according to the DFS site, although you stated it was > only 17W so > > double check this) so it's only 1WPG on the 20G and > only 0.69WPG on > > the 29G. Of course, if the bulb puts out a LOT more > lumens (you would > > have to do more checking up on the bulb to find this), > that would help > > a little but not much. I think you need at least > 1WPG to have success > > with low-light plants, although floating plants like > Anacharis, > > Hornwort, Duckweed, etc., would be up close to the > light and benefit > > from CO2 from the air and would do OK with your > lighting... but then > > they would also block out the lighting to the rest of > the tank. > > > > I don't see a lot of options, as far as T-8 bulbs are > concerned for > > this size fixture but I see a few different T-12's... > such as... > > > > (My rating is: GOOD - but see BETTER and BEST options > below... at > > least as far as the bulbs on this site are concerned) > > > > http://www.servicelighting.com/Sylvania-22119-F20T12-DSGN50-T12-Straig > > ht-Lin > > ear-Fluorescent-Light-Bulb > > > > Light Output: 880 lumens > > Refers to the literal measure of the light-output of a > particular > > light bulb, measured in the number of lumens. > > > > Energy Used: 20 watts > > "Watts" is the term applied to the amount of energy > required and used > > by a particular light bulb. It is an international > system unit of > > power equal to one joule per second. Contrary to > popular belief, the > > wattage of a bulb does not directly measure the > brightness; the > > "lumens" of a light is what defines the actual light > output. > > > > Average Lifetime: 9,000 hours > > This refers to an average lifetime rating based on > large quantities in > > test groups. This testing takes into account usage of > 3 hours per > > start for fluorescent lamps and 10 hours per start for > HID lamps. > > > > Bulb Type: T12 > > The "Bulb Type" is typically a combination of the > style of bulb as > > well as the width of the bulb. Usually, the first > couple letters will > > indicate the type; "G" would indicate "Globe", "PAR" > would indicate > > "Parabolic Reflector"... The numbers indicate the > diameter of the > > light bulb in eighths of an inch; a "G40" would be a > "Globe" style > > that is "5 inches" in diameter. > > > > > > Base Type: Medium Bi-Pin > > The "Base" of a light bulb is the part that either > screws or snaps > > into a receptacle. Base Type terminology may indicate > common > > descriptive words like "Medium" or "Candelabra", or > may even contain > > numeric codes that signify size and variety, like > "E26" or "2GX13". > > > > Color Temperature: 5,000K > > Correlated Color Temperature (CCT) is a specification > of the color > > appearance of a lamp, relating its color to that of a > reference source > > heated to a particular temperature, measured in > degrees Kelvin (K). It > > generally measures the "warmth" or "coolness" of light > source > > appearance. > > > > CRI: 90 > > CRI refers to the "Color Rendering Index" of a light > bulb. > > CRI measures a > > light source and grades its ability to render the > color of objects > > "correctly," as compared with a reference source with > comparable color > > temperature. 100 is perfect rendering. > > > > Length: 24 inches > > > > > > (BETTER - slightly higher lumens and higher 6500K > rating) > > > > http://www.servicelighting.com/Westinghouse-36516-F20T12-FS-T12-Straig > > ht-Lin > > ear-Fluorescent-Light-Bulb > > > > Light Output: 900 lumens > > Energy Used: 20 watts > > Average Lifetime: 10,000 hours > > Bulb Type: T12 > > Base Type: Medium Bi-Pin > > Color Temperature: 6,500K > > CRI: 90 > > Length: 24 inches > > > > > > > > (BEST, of these three - around 20% higher lumens and > good 6,500K > > rating, although it does have a lower CRI rating.. but > still > > passing) > > > > http://www.servicelighting.com/Sylvania-22083-F20T12-D-T12-Straight-Li > > near-F > > luorescent-Light-Bulb > > > > Light Output: 1,075 lumens > > Energy Used: 20 watts > > Average Lifetime: 9,000 hours > > Bulb Type: T12 > > Base Type: Medium Bi-Pin > > Color Temperature: 6,500K > > CRI: 76 > > Length: 24 inches > > > > Compare the above three to what is sold as a > plant/aquarium light by > > the same company, which has a lower lumens, MUCH lower > CRI rating and > > does not list the K rating other than to say "Plant" > which is a > > subjective rating established by the manufacturer. > > > > (WORST) > > > > http://www.servicelighting.com/Westinghouse-36411-F20T12-PL-T12-Straig > > ht-Lin > > ear-Fluorescent-Light-Bulb > > > > Light Output: 700 lumens (over 30% less lighting > than the 1,075 > > lumens bulb > > above) > > Energy Used: 20 watts > > Average Lifetime: 10,000 hours > > Bulb Type: T12 > > Base Type: Medium Bi-Pin > > Color: Plant > > CRI: 61 > > Length: 24 inches > > > > If any of the above have much better lumens than your > current > > lighting... > > and they all have better K ratings, then any of them > would be better > > for you... but you would still be stuck with only 20 > watts but it's > > the LUMENS and K rating that count more than watts. > You need to find > > out the lumens on your bulb. Try to find it on the > DFS site and let > > us know. > > > > You should look at the AHSupply.com place for a > retrofit kit so you > > can use CFL's in your current hood. That would > probably be your least > > expensive option. I know you don't like electricity > but I'm sure you > > know someone that could do this for you... on the > cheap... or over a > > 6-pack. > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to > any articles > > referenced in above reply are listed on the right > side, alphabetically > > under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] > > On > > Behalf Of bill 1433 > > Sent: Wednesday, November 11, 2009 9:33 AM > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: wisteria/lighting > previous > > question/response > > revisited > > > > Hi \\Steve// > > > > At this point, and also to refresh your mind, and > anyone > > else on the group > > that may have interest. This all got started with > my > > search for a tube that > > would allow me more light output from an All Glass > Plastic > > hood and light. > > This unit comes with a "color type tube at 17 watts > that is > > only 24 inches > > long. This is for a 20/29-gallon tank. I was > > stupid enough to buy two of > > them, one for each tank. For further inspection > here > > is the light: > > > > http://www.drsfostersmith.com/product/prod_display.cfm?pcatid=13447 > > > > For those that would like to aggravate themselves > further, > > I can also state > > that these hoods are very conducive to growing Black > > Algae! > > > > Summoning up, I should have only purchased an > All-Glass > > cover and then > > probably a double tube light of sufficient wattage to > bring > > me up to the > > recommended 2 or 3 watts per gallon. > > > > Ya live and learn, > > > > Bill > > > > > > --- On Tue, 11/10/09, Steve Szabo <steve@...> > > wrote: > > > > > From: Steve Szabo <steve@...> > > > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: wisteria/lighting > > previous > > > question/response revisited > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > > Date: Tuesday, November 10, 2009, 11:50 PM Bill, > you > > got it right! The > > > T numbers represent the diameter of the bulb in > 1/8" > > increments. A T4 > > > is a bulb 1/2" in diameter, T5 is 5/8", t8 is > 1" and > > a t12 is 1 1/2". > > > As I recall, the F is the wattage of the bulb. > > > > > > Lumens, not usually stated on the bulb is the > actual > > amount of light > > > coming from the bulb. It really does not have > anything > > to do with > > > watts, though more watts will give you more > lumens, > > but, also the > > > phosphors used in the bulb affect the amount of > lumen > > output. Lumens > > > and lux are often used interchangeably, but they > are > > really different > > > measurements. Lux is the measure of illumination > over > > a given area. It > > > may actually be more important to aquarists > raising > > plants than the > > > lumen output. Lux is what is measured by a light > > meter, for anyone who > > > happens to know what they are--not often seen > with > > today's cameras and > > > photographers. > > > > > > Color temperature is important. Average daylight > > (except may in > > > Amber's area where they have 6 months of > darkness) has > > a color > > > temperature of 5500-6000. > > > An overcast day can have a color temperature of > 6500. > > As mentioned > > > earlier, plants need light in two color > spectrums, > > and, actually they > > > are rather narrow spans of wavelengths they > benefit > > from. > > > > > > I thought I had a bookmark explaining this, but > I > > can't find it > > > quickly (over 400K of bookmarks, and things have > a > > tendency to get > > > lost), however, some judicial Googling will gain > you > > the information. > > > > > > \\Steve// > > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] > > > On > > > Behalf Of bill 1433 > > > Sent: Tuesday, November 10, 2009 10:20 PM > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: wisteria/lighting > > previous > > > question/response revisited > > > > > > Yes, Amber > > > > > > It was I, looking for the original information > and > > also looked back on > > > \\Steve//'s post at group to try and find. Ray > had > > mentioned all this > > > the other day saying that he thought the posting > came > > from \\Steve//. > > > > > > I was not successful in my search. Also, for me > the > > most important > > > part was a link to a chart which showed you > exactly, > > or explained > > > exactly the "T" > > > factor stands for. For instance, T-4 would be a > tube > > that is a half > > > inch wide, or close to it-----------I think. > All > > this is my own > > > fault. In my interest to acquire and learn > about > > lighting,I went > > > through and studied the applied links but being > > ol'bill, I never > > > bookmarked them. > > > Then to further > > > compound the problem, I deleted the original > message > > that it came > > > from. In hind-sight you could probably chalk > this > > all up to felonious > > > stupidity on my part. > > > > > > Bill---where its always a good day if I learn > > something new! > > > > > > --- On Tue, 11/10/09, Amber Berglund <arberglund@...> > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > From: Amber Berglund <arberglund@...> > > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: wisteria/lighting > > previous > > > question/response revisited > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > > Date: Tuesday, November 10, 2009, 9:30 PM > > > > > > > > > I believe it was Steve who posted a link about > lumens > > months back when > > > (I think it was maybe Bill asking) about lighting > for > > planted > > > aquariums. > > > Plants require 2 different spectrums of light to > > properly produce > > > either leaves or flowers (red is more for flower > > production and blue > > > is more for growth, but for the best growing you > want > > a mixture of > > > BOTH colors). > > > So in reality you would want a light that appears > more > > brown/reddish > > > in coloring and a blue/white coloring as well, > but > > they now have bulbs > > > that have BOTH spectrums built in (I'm sure they > don't > > work as well as > > > it would to have 2 different bulbs one mostly red > and > > the other mostly > > > blue on the color spectrum). > > > Let me see if I still have the link bookmarked. > > > What I was trying to say is that Kelvin does not > tell > > you what color > > > spectrum the light REALLY is, it's actually > measuring > > it's light > > > output color according to how the human eyes > perceive > > it. So 6500 > > > kelvin in general is what most plants will > prefer > > because that is a > > > mixture of both red and blue spectrums (In MOST > bulbs) > > unfortunately > > > not all light bulb manufactures have to use the > exact > > same chart for > > > their colors, so they will have different colors > than > > another bulb > > > that says it's 6500 Kelvin. what you really need > to > > read is the color > > > chart on the box, not what lumens it says it is. > > > (still searching for link, LOL). > > > > > > This isn't the right link but it discusses the > > kelvin/lumen problems a > > > little bit, still looking for the link that > showed the > > charts and what > > > to look for in the color charts. > > > http://www.americanaquariumproducts.com/Aquarium_Lighting.html > > > > > > Will post again when I find the other link with > chart > > examples. > > > > > > Amber > > > > > > > > > Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > > > > > > > > I think it would be false advertising or > > possibly > > > mis-advertising (if they > > > > do not know any better) if a company lists > their > > bulbs > > > as 6500K and they > > > > aren't. The Kelvin scale, just like Watts > and > > Lumens, > > > are ALL > > > > universal and > > > > scientifically measurable scales BUT, as I > > showed > > > below, not all 40 watt > > > > bulbs put out the same amount of light > (lumens) > > or in > > > the same color > > > > spectrum (Kelvin rating). All 40 watt > bulbs, > > whether > > > incandescent, > > > > fluorescent, CFL, LED, Halogen, etc.... ALL > use > > > only/around 40 watts of > > > > electricity but their light output can vary > > > dramatically. This is why > > > > fluorescent bulbs are so much more > efficient > > than > > > incandescent bulbs and > > > > CFL's are even more efficient... as a 40W > > fluorescent > > > bulb puts out a LOT > > > > more light (lumens) than a 40 watt > incandescent > > bulb > > > and a 40W CFL > > > > puts out > > > > more light (lumens) than a 40W fluorescent > bulb. > > This > > > is why the OLD > > > > "Watts > > > > Per Gallon" rule simply does not work any > more. > > > > > > > > BUT.. if three different companies are > selling > > > standard T-10 fluorescent > > > > bulbs with the same exact rating of 40W, > 3550 > > lumens > > > and 6500K > > > > rating... all > > > > three of those bulbs should be VERY SIMILAR > if > > not > > > identical in the > > > > way they > > > > appear to our eyes (subject to our own > degree of > > color > > > blindness, of > > > > course!) > > > > > > > > In the past, things like "soft white", > "warm > > white", > > > "daylight", "plant > > > > grow", etc., type terms were used and are > still > > used > > > but those are just > > > > simple words (not subject to a scientific > scale) > > to > > > describe the Kelvin > > > > rating ranges but lumens are just as > important > > since a > > > bulb could have a > > > > 6500K rating with only 2200 lumens where > another > > bulb > > > could have a 6500K > > > > rating and 3550 or 3700 lumens and that > bulb > > would put > > > out over 50% more > > > > light (lumens) in the same color spectrum > > (Kelvin > > > rating) so it would be a > > > > much more cost effective bulb if it cost > the > > same > > > amount or only a little > > > > more. > > > > > > > > I'm slightly confused about the "red and > blue > > light > > > for your plants" as > > > > those two colors are on opposite ends of > the > > Kelvin > > > Scale with reds and > > > > ambers in the lower numbers and greens and > blues > > in > > > the higher numbers. I > > > > think this is why you would want a > mid-range > > (5000K to > > > 6500K) bulb as > > > > those > > > > are generally considered "full spectrum" or > > "daylight" > > > bulbs. Here's a > > > > color picture of the Kelvin Scale, > > > > http://www.bltdirect.com/images/colour-temperature.jpg > > > > > > > <http://www.bltdirect.com/images/colour-temperature.jpg> > > > and you can > > > > visually > > > > see that the 5000K to 6500K range is all > about > > the > > > same "color". I think > > > > this is also why Actinic bulbs are usually > higher > > and > > > closer to the 10000K > > > > range and up... apparently, the Kelvin > lighting > > scale > > > can go up to 20,000K > > > > (according to this article about Reef Tanks > > > > > http://nh.craigslist.org/for/1423072406.html > > > > <http://nh.craigslist.org/for/1423072406.html> on, > > of > > > all places, > > > > Craigslist). > > > > Here is the page that that the above photo > link > > came > > > from and it has a > > > > chart > > > > that also explains things a little more also > and > > talks > > > about the CRI, yet > > > > another lighting term (Color Rendition > Index). > > > > http://www.bltdirect.com/lampColourTemperatures.php > > > > <http://www.bltdirect.com/lampColourTemperatures.php> > > > > > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> (Links > > to any articles referenced in > > > > above reply are > > > listed on the right > > > > side, alphabetically under Labels and also > under > > > Archives by Year, Month) > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On > > Behalf Of Amber Berglund > > > > Sent: Tuesday, November 10, 2009 4:22 PM > > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: > wisteria/lighting > > > previous > > > > question/response > > > > revisited > > > > > > > > Another thing to consider is one light > company's > > 6500 > > > kelvin rating > > > > may not > > > > be identical to another light bulb from a > > different > > > company that's > > > > rated the > > > > same. The important thing to look at is the > > color > > > chart they show on the > > > > boxes, you want more red and blue light for > your > > > plants, green is not > > > > useful > > > > or harmful as the plants reflect the light > back > > (makes > > > them appear more > > > > green but does nothing else for them). The > > kelvin > > > rating is based on our > > > > eyes and how they perceive color, so each > > company > > > doesn't have to be > > > > identical, perhaps some day they will have > a > > universal > > > way to measure > > > > light > > > > spectrums on bulbs that is much less > confusing. > > > > > > > > Amber > > > > > > > > Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > > > > > > > > > > OK. So you have a total of 80 watts > right > > now, > > > which is just over 1 > > > > > WPG, which means you only have enough > > lighting > > > for low-light, easy to > > > > > grow plants. See my blog article > "Planted > > Tank: > > > So You Want A Planted > > > > > Tank" for links to lists of low-light, > easy > > to > > > grow plants that will > > > > > do OK in your tank. You should replace > > those > > > tubes at least yearly... > > > > > although some say every six months. As > far > > as I > > > know, a 40W bulb is > > > > > the highest wattage made for this type > of > > > bulb/fixture right now but > > > > > you can increase your lighting > > > > > (lumens) and K (Kelvin) rating. See > below. > > > > > > > > > > NOTE - below links are for > > example/informational > > > purposes only, as I > > > > > know nothing about the sites. God... > did I > > just > > > say that? Do I really > > > > > have to add disclaimers to my posts > now? LOL > > Just > > > laughing at myself. > > > > > LOL > > > > > > > > > > This may be your Sylvania bulb... > > > > > http://www.lightbulbemporium.com/proddetail.asp?prod=F40/EX50 > > > > > > > <http://www.lightbulbemporium.com/proddetail.asp?prod=F40/EX50> > > > > > <http://www.lightbulbemporium.com/proddetail.asp?prod=F40/EX50 > > > > > > > <http://www.lightbulbemporium.com/proddetail.asp?prod=F40/EX50>> > > > and if > > > > > it is, then it's the same ratings as > the > > specs in > > > the T-10 bulb that I > > > > > copy/pasted below, which is a pretty > good > > bulb > > > with higher lumens and > > > > > the higher K rating, although not a > 6500K > > rated > > > bulb. At the bottom of > > > > > this page, there was a link to this > bulb... > > > > > > > > > http://www.lightbulbemporium.com/maxlite_51204_ml_f40t10_850_rscg.as > > > > p > > > > > > > <http://www.lightbulbemporium.com/maxlite_51204_ml_f40t10_850_rscg.a > > > > sp> > > > > > > > > > <http://www.lightbulbemporium.com/maxlite_51204_ml_f40t10_850_rscg.a > > > > sp > > > > > > > <http://www.lightbulbemporium.com/maxlite_51204_ml_f40t10_850_rscg.a > > > > sp> > > > > > > > > > > > which > > > > > has an even higher lumen rating of > 3700, > > although > > > not much higher than > > > > > the 3550 rating but every little bit > helps > > > especially since the > > > > > MaxLite bulb was a lower price than > the > > Sylvania > > > bulb. > > > > > > > > > > As you will see on this page > > > > > > > > > http://www.lightbulbsdirect.com/Merchant2/merchant.mvc?page=001/CTGY > > > > /F > > > > > > > <http://www.lightbulbsdirect.com/Merchant2/merchant.mvc?page=001/CTG > > > > Y/F> > > > > > S+Fluo > > > > > > > > > <http://www.lightbulbsdirect.com/Merchant2/merchant.mvc?page=001/CTG > > > > Y/ > > > > > > > <http://www.lightbulbsdirect.com/Merchant2/merchant.mvc?page=001/CTG > > > > Y/> > > > > > FS+Fluo> > > > > > rescent > > > > > > > > > > The second bulb down would be similar > to > > yours, > > > except we do not know > > > > > the lumen or color spectrum rating on > your > > bulb, > > > unless that link I > > > > > gave above is actually your bulb and > then > > it > > > would be the same as this > > > > > one. The specs on it are: > > > > > > > > > > T-10 Fluorescent > > > > > 40 Watts > > > > > Length: 48" > > > > > Medium Bi-Pin Base > > > > > Color: 5000K Temperature > > > > > Initial Lumens: 3550 > > > > > CRI: 84 > > > > > Average Life: 20,000 Hours > > > > > > > > > > The Color spectrum of 5000K (Kelvin) is > OK > > but > > > 6500K would be much > > > > better. > > > > > The Lumens of 3550 is the actual amount > of > > > *light* > > > > > > > > > > The next bulb down from that one is a > T-12, > > which > > > will also fit in > > > > > your fixture but they are bigger > diameter > > bulbs > > > and this one actually > > > > > puts out less light (lumens). Here are > the > > > specs: > > > > > > > > > > T-12 Fluorescent > > > > > 40 Watts > > > > > Length: 48" > > > > > Base: Medium Bi-Pin Base > > > > > Initial Lumens: 2200 > > > > > Average Life: 20,000 Hours > > > > > Color Temperature: 5000K > > > > > CRI: 92 > > > > > > > > > > It has the same Color spectrum but > only > > 2200 > > > lumens so the above T-10 > > > > > bulb has around 50% more lumens > (light) > > coming > > > out of it. > > > > > > > > > > Now, if you scroll down to the second > from > > the > > > bottom on the page, > > > > > you'll see the Verilux Instant-Sun > T-12 > > bulb > > > which has a higher Kelvin > > > > > rating but it doesn't list the lumens > so > > this > > > needs to be checked out > > > > > further. While the higher K rating is > good, > > if it > > > goes back down to > > > > > only 2200 lumens, instead of the 3550 > lumens > > of > > > the first referenced > > > > > bulb above, then I would probably go > with > > the > > > 3550 lumens, 5000K bulb > > > > > over the 6280K bulb if the lumens were > a > > LOT > > > less. > > > > > > > > > > (START SNIP) > > > > > Engineered to reproduce all the colors > and > > > balance of natural light, > > > > > VeriluxR full spectrum fluorescent > tubes > > feature > > > Trucolite Phosphor > > > > > TechnologyT which includes the use of > a > > stable, > > > custom blend of earth > > > > > phosphors that create bright, balanced > full > > > spectrum light. > > > > > T-12 Fluorescent > > > > > 40 Watts > > > > > Length: 48" > > > > > Color Temperature: 6280K > > > > > CRI: 94 > > > > > Medium Bi-Pin Base > > > > > (END SNIP) > > > > > > > > > > So, as you can see, there's a few > things to > > look > > > for when shopping for > > > > > new replacement bulbs. Look for the > 5000K > > to > > > 6500K bulbs with the > > > > > higher lumen rating for the dollar and > you > > should > > > be good. Note that a > > > > > 3550 or 3700 lumen bulb will put out > nearly > > twice > > > as much light as a > > > > > 2000 lumen bulb so it can be easy to > > increase > > > your lighting without > > > > > increasing the wattage. DO NOT try to > use HO > > or > > > VHO bulbs... which > > > > > look similar but have much higher > wattage, > > well > > > over the 40W bulbs you > > > > > now have. These other HO and VHO bulbs > have > > > different pin arrangements > > > > > so they will not fit in your fixture > anyhow > > but I > > > just wanted to save > > > > > you a trip. > > > > > > > > > > Last but not least, if you're handy, > you > > could > > > even take the bulbs out > > > > > of your fixtures and line the insides > of > > your > > > fixtures with nice and > > > > > crisp and flat aluminum foil (shiny > side > > exposed) > > > which will also > > > > > help. Using double stick tape and then > > carefully > > > applying the foil so > > > > > it does not wrinkle too much will work > > well... > > > especially if the > > > > > inside of your fixture is black. A > white > > > reflector is good but a > > > > > mirrored reflector, like that created > by > > the > > > shiny side of foil, is > > > > > MUCH better than a black reflector. > Most > > black > > > fixtures do at least > > > > > have white reflector areas. > > > > > > > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > > > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>> > > > > (Links to any articles referenced in > > > > > above reply are listed on the right > side, > > > alphabetically under Labels > > > > > and also under Archives by Year, > Month) > > > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On > > > Behalf Of erikaandnewton > > > > > Sent: Tuesday, November 10, 2009 10:17 > AM > > > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: > > wisteria/lighting > > > previous > > > > > question/response revisited > > > > > > > > > > << When you say "two strips" do > you > > have > > > two 4' long two-bulb fixtures > > > > > already or something else?>> > > > > > > > > > > i have two 4' single bulb strip > lights. > > > > > > > > > > >> What kind of lighting do you > > currently > > > have? Look at the bulbs and > > > > > >> there should be some kind of > > writing on > > > one of the ends. Give us > > > > > >> that info if you cannot > decipher > > it > > > yourself.<< > > > > > > > > > > one bulb is a f40 t10 > > > > > the other one is a sylvania daylight > bulb > > also > > > f40 > > > > > > > > > > >> It's probably 21" tall, since > a > > common > > > measurement for a 75G is > > > > > >> 48"x18"x21" Tall.>> > > > > > > > > > > it is 21 inches tall > > > > > > > > > > erika wilmington de usa > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ------------------------------------ > > > > > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it > when > > replying, Thank > > > You. > > > > > > ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> > > > ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , > .·´¯`·..><((((º> > > > PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT > that > > is NOT > > > important to the reply & if CHANGING the > TOPIC of > > the original message > > > MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject > (was > > re: old subject)" <- > > > > > > <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. > > > , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. > > > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this > matter. > > > > > > If you do not want all of the groups emails, > instead > > of unsubscribing, > > > you can change your delivery option by clicking > on > > "Edit My > > > Membership" on the home page. > > > > > > Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com > > > to receive the digest, which includes up to 25 > posts > > at a time in a > > > single email > > > > > > Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com > > > for the No E-Mail option where you will still be > able > > to read messages > > > on the group and post replies. > > > > > > Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com > > > to receive individual e-mails.Yahoo! Groups > Links > > > > > > > > > AquaticLife-fullfeatured@yahoogroups.com > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ------------------------------------ > > > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when > > replying, Thank You. > > > ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> > > ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> > > PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that > is > > NOT important to > > the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original > > message MODIFY the SUBJECT > > LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" > <- > > > <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. > > , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. > > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. > > > > If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead > of > > unsubscribing, you > > can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit > My > > Membership" on the > > home page. > > > > Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com > > to receive the digest, which > > includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email > > > > Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com > > for the No E-Mail option where > > you will still be able to read messages on the group > and > > post replies. > > > > Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com > > to receive individual > > e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > > > > > > > ------------------------------------ > > > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when > > replying, Thank You. > > > ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> > > ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> > > PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that > is > > NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC > of > > the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> > i.e. "new > > subject (was re: old subject)" <- > > > <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. > > , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. > > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. > > > > If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead > of > > unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by > > clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the home page. > > > > Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com > > to receive the digest, which includes up to 25 posts > at a > > time in a single email > > > > Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com > > for the No E-Mail option where you will still be able > to > > read messages on the group and post replies. > > > > Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com > > to receive individual e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > AquaticLife-fullfeatured@yahoogroups.com > > > > > > > > > > > > ------------------------------------ > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when > replying, Thank You. > ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> > ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> > PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is > NOT important to > the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original > message MODIFY the SUBJECT > LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- > <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. > , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. > > If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of > unsubscribing, you > can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My > Membership" on the > home page. > > Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com > to receive the digest, which > includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email > > Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com > for the No E-Mail option where > you will still be able to read messages on the group and > post replies. > > Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com > to receive individual > e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > ------------------------------------ > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when > replying, Thank You. > ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> > ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> > PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is > NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of > the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new > subject (was re: old subject)" <- > <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. > , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. > > If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of > unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by > clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the home page. > > Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com > to receive the digest, which includes up to 25 posts at a > time in a single email > > Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com > for the No E-Mail option where you will still be able to > read messages on the group and post replies. > > Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com > to receive individual e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links > > > AquaticLife-fullfeatured@yahoogroups.com > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 44456	From: bill 1433	Date: 11/12/2009
Subject: Re: wisteria/lighting previous question/response revisited

Hi Len, That's where all the confusion is coming in on my part. At mesuring, this tube is only 1/2 but all the sites talk about that darn "T" value. Home Depot and Lowes are no help, the tubes they offer are two: Cool white and Warm light" that's it. Does this help at all? Bill --- On Thu, 11/12/09, Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@...> wrote: > From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@...> > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: wisteria/lighting previous question/response revisited > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Date: Thursday, November 12, 2009, 11:27 AM > I don't know what you mean by > this.  Please elaborate.  What size tube?  I > posted about several different bulbs but all were T-12's, > which is one of > the most common sizes. > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed > on the right > side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives > by Year, Month) > > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] > On > Behalf Of bill 1433 > Sent: Thursday, November 12, 2009 8:59 AM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: wisteria/lighting previous > question/response > revisited > > Yes Len, > > But its finding that size tube with more of anything that's > the problem. > > Bill > > --- On Wed, 11/11/09, Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@...> > wrote: > > > From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@...> > > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: wisteria/lighting > previous > > question/response revisited > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > Date: Wednesday, November 11, 2009, 5:22 PM Well, if > you only have > > 17W, then you could definitely do better with the 20W, > higher lumen, > > better K rating bulbs that I mentioned.  Considering > the lumen ratings > > of fluorescent bulbs I've looked at, your 17W bulbs > might only have > > 500-700 lumens where the BEST 20W bulb (below) has > > 1075 lumens so you > > could possibly increase your lighting by 50% to 100% > just by changing > > to that bulb.  At least, with that bulb, you'll be in > the low-light > > range for plants on the 20G but the 29G will need some > work. > > > > Of course, you should find out what the lumens and K > ratings are on > > the bulbs you have so you'll know if you are getting a > small jump or a > > BIG jump in lighting just by changing your bulbs.  > Check your local > > WalMart for bulbs.  My nearby WalMart SuperCenter has > a really big > > assortment of fluorescent tubes and they were cheaper > than the Home > > Depot. > > > > Something else I'm thinking about for you is going > with 18" > > light-sticks on > > each end of your 29G tank or front or back (back would > hide it best > > but you decide your best aesthetics) and you'd have to > make a DIY > > reflector for it (white poster board and scotch tape > would work) and > > that would get more lighting down to the bottom level > plants in the > > 29G. > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to > any articles > > referenced in above reply are listed on the right > side, alphabetically > > under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] > > On > > Behalf Of bill 1433 > > Sent: Wednesday, November 11, 2009 3:42 PM > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: wisteria/lighting > previous > > question/response > > revisited > > > > It is what it is type of thing Len.  Site says one > > thing but stamped or > > printed right on the tube is at 17 watts. > > > > Bill > > > > --- On Wed, 11/11/09, Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@...> > > wrote: > > > > > From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@...> > > > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: wisteria/lighting > > previous > > > question/response revisited > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > > Date: Wednesday, November 11, 2009, 2:16 PM The > > problem might be this > > > statement in the description... > > > > > > "... Hoods include 8000ºK bulb... ...20W, > 24"..." > > > > > > That's getting into the higher green/blue Kelvin > > range... > > > closer to the > > > 10,000K actinic type bulbs... than the 5000K to > 6500K > > "Daylight" bulbs > > > that provide full spectrum lighting.  It's also > only > > a 20W bulb > > > (according to the DFS site, although you stated > it was > > only 17W so > > > double check this) so it's only 1WPG on the 20G > and > > only 0.69WPG on > > > the 29G.  Of course, if the bulb puts out a LOT > more > > lumens (you would > > > have to do more checking up on the bulb to find > this), > > that would help > > > a little but not much.  I think you need at > least > > 1WPG to have success > > > with low-light plants, although floating plants > like > > Anacharis, > > > Hornwort, Duckweed, etc., would be up close to > the > > light and benefit > > > from CO2 from the air and would do OK with your > > lighting... but then > > > they would also block out the lighting to the > rest of > > the tank. > > > > > > I don't see a lot of options, as far as T-8 bulbs > are > > concerned for > > > this size fixture but I see a few different > T-12's... > > such as... > > > > > > (My rating is: GOOD - but see BETTER and BEST > options > > below... at > > > least as far as the bulbs on this site are > concerned) > > > > > > http://www.servicelighting.com/Sylvania-22119-F20T12-DSGN50-T12-Straig > > > ht-Lin > > > ear-Fluorescent-Light-Bulb > > > > > > Light Output:  880 lumens > > > Refers to the literal measure of the light-output > of a > > particular > > > light bulb, measured in the number of lumens. > > > > > > Energy Used:  20 watts > > > "Watts" is the term applied to the amount of > energy > > required and used > > > by a particular light bulb. It is an > international > > system unit of > > > power equal to one joule per second. Contrary to > > popular belief, the > > > wattage of a bulb does not directly measure the > > brightness; the > > > "lumens" of a light is what defines the actual > light > > output. > > >  > > > Average Lifetime:  9,000 hours > > > This refers to an average lifetime rating based > on > > large quantities in > > > test groups. This testing takes into account > usage of > > 3 hours per > > > start for fluorescent lamps and 10 hours per > start for > > HID lamps. > > >  > > > Bulb Type:  T12 > > > The "Bulb Type" is typically a combination of > the > > style of bulb as > > > well as the width of the bulb. Usually, the > first > > couple letters will > > > indicate the type; "G" would indicate "Globe", > "PAR" > > would indicate > > > "Parabolic Reflector"... The numbers indicate > the > > diameter of the > > > light bulb in eighths of an inch; a "G40" would > be a > > "Globe" style > > > that is "5 inches" in diameter. > > > > > >  > > > Base Type:  Medium Bi-Pin > > > The "Base" of a light bulb is the part that > either > > screws or snaps > > > into a receptacle. Base Type terminology may > indicate > > common > > > descriptive words like "Medium" or "Candelabra", > or > > may even contain > > > numeric codes that signify size and variety, > like > > "E26" or "2GX13". > > >  > > > Color Temperature:  5,000K > > > Correlated Color Temperature (CCT) is a > specification > > of the color > > > appearance of a lamp, relating its color to that > of a > > reference source > > > heated to a particular temperature, measured in > > degrees Kelvin (K). It > > > generally measures the "warmth" or "coolness" of > light > > source > > > appearance. > > > > > > CRI:  90 > > > CRI refers to the "Color Rendering Index" of a > light > > bulb. > > > CRI measures a > > > light source and grades its ability to render > the > > color of objects > > > "correctly," as compared with a reference source > with > > comparable color > > > temperature. 100 is perfect rendering. > > >  > > > Length:  24 inches > > > > > > > > > (BETTER - slightly higher lumens and higher > 6500K > > rating) > > > > > > http://www.servicelighting.com/Westinghouse-36516-F20T12-FS-T12-Straig > > > ht-Lin > > > ear-Fluorescent-Light-Bulb > > > > > > Light Output:  900 lumens > > > Energy Used:  20 watts > > > Average Lifetime:  10,000 hours > > > Bulb Type:  T12 > > > Base Type:  Medium Bi-Pin > > > Color Temperature:  6,500K > > > CRI:  90 > > > Length:  24 inches > > > > > > > > > > > > (BEST, of these three - around 20% higher lumens > and > > good 6,500K > > > rating, although it does have a lower CRI > rating.. but > > still > > > passing) > > > > > > http://www.servicelighting.com/Sylvania-22083-F20T12-D-T12-Straight-Li > > > near-F > > > luorescent-Light-Bulb > > > > > > Light Output:  1,075 lumens > > > Energy Used:  20 watts > > > Average Lifetime:  9,000 hours > > > Bulb Type:  T12 > > > Base Type:  Medium Bi-Pin > > > Color Temperature:  6,500K > > > CRI:  76 > > > Length:  24 inches > > > > > > Compare the above three to what is sold as a > > plant/aquarium light by > > > the same company, which has a lower lumens, MUCH > lower > > CRI rating and > > > does not list the K rating other than to say > "Plant" > > which is a > > > subjective rating established by the > manufacturer. > > > > > > (WORST) > > > > > > http://www.servicelighting.com/Westinghouse-36411-F20T12-PL-T12-Straig > > > ht-Lin > > > ear-Fluorescent-Light-Bulb > > > > > > Light Output:  700 lumens (over 30% less > lighting > > than the 1,075 > > > lumens bulb > > > above) > > > Energy Used:  20 watts > > > Average Lifetime:  10,000 hours > > > Bulb Type:  T12 > > > Base Type:  Medium Bi-Pin > > > Color:  Plant > > > CRI:  61 > > > Length:  24 inches > > > > > > If any of the above have much better lumens than > your > > current > > > lighting... > > > and they all have better K ratings, then any of > them > > would be better > > > for you... but you would still be stuck with only > 20 > > watts but it's > > > the LUMENS and K rating that count more than > watts.  > > You need to find > > > out the lumens on your bulb.  Try to find it on > the > > DFS site and let > > > us know. > > > > > > You should look at the AHSupply.com place for a > > retrofit kit so you > > > can use CFL's in your current hood.  That would > > probably be your least > > > expensive option.  I know you don't like > electricity > > but I'm sure you > > > know someone that could do this for you... on > the > > cheap... or over a > > > 6-pack. > > > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to > > any articles > > > referenced in above reply are listed on the > right > > side, alphabetically > > > under Labels and also under Archives by Year, > Month) > > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] > > > On > > > Behalf Of bill 1433 > > > Sent: Wednesday, November 11, 2009 9:33 AM > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: wisteria/lighting > > previous > > > question/response > > > revisited > > > > > > Hi \\Steve// > > > > > > At this point, and also to refresh your mind, > and > > anyone > > > else on the group > > > that may have interest.  This all got started > with > > my > > > search for a tube that > > > would allow me more light output from an All > Glass > > Plastic > > > hood and light. > > > This unit comes with a "color type tube at 17 > watts > > that is > > > only 24 inches > > > long.  This is for a 20/29-gallon tank.  I was > > > stupid enough to buy two of > > > them, one for each tank.  For further > inspection > > here > > > is the light: > > > > > > http://www.drsfostersmith.com/product/prod_display.cfm?pcatid=13447 > > > > > > For those that would like to aggravate > themselves > > further, > > > I can also state > > > that these hoods are very conducive to growing > Black > > > Algae! > > > > > > Summoning up, I should have only purchased an > > All-Glass > > > cover and then > > > probably a double tube light of sufficient > wattage to > > bring > > > me up to the > > > recommended 2 or 3 watts per gallon. > > > > > > Ya live and learn, > > > > > > Bill > > > > > > > > > --- On Tue, 11/10/09, Steve Szabo <steve@...> > > > wrote: > > > > > > > From: Steve Szabo <steve@...> > > > > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: > wisteria/lighting > > > previous > > > > question/response revisited > > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > > > Date: Tuesday, November 10, 2009, 11:50 PM > Bill, > > you > > > got it right! The > > > > T numbers represent the diameter of the bulb > in > > 1/8" > > > increments. A T4 > > > > is a bulb 1/2" in diameter,  T5 is 5/8", t8 > is > > 1" and > > > a t12 is 1 1/2". > > > > As I recall, the F is the wattage of the > bulb. > > > > > > > > Lumens, not usually stated on the bulb is > the > > actual > > > amount of light > > > > coming from the bulb. It really does not > have > > anything > > > to do with > > > > watts, though more watts will give you more > > lumens, > > > but, also the > > > > phosphors used in the bulb affect the amount > of > > lumen > > > output. Lumens > > > > and lux are often used interchangeably, but > they > > are > > > really different > > > > measurements. Lux is the measure of > illumination > > over > > > a given area. It > > > > may actually be more important to aquarists > > raising > > > plants than the > > > > lumen output. Lux is what is measured by a > light > > > meter, for anyone who > > > > happens to know what they are--not often > seen > > with > > > today's cameras and > > > > photographers. > > > > > > > > Color temperature is important. Average > daylight > > > (except may in > > > > Amber's area where they have 6 months of > > darkness) has > > > a color > > > > temperature of 5500-6000. > > > > An overcast day can have a color temperature > of > > 6500. > > > As mentioned > > > > earlier, plants need light in two color > > spectrums, > > > and, actually they > > > > are rather narrow spans of wavelengths they > > benefit > > > from. > > > > > > > > I thought I had a bookmark explaining this, > but > > I > > > can't find it > > > > quickly (over 400K of bookmarks, and things > have > > a > > > tendency to get > > > > lost), however, some judicial Googling will > gain > > you > > > the information. > > > > > > > > \\Steve// > > > > > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > > > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] > > > > On > > > > Behalf Of bill 1433 > > > > Sent: Tuesday, November 10, 2009 10:20 PM > > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: > wisteria/lighting > > > previous > > > > question/response revisited > > > > > > > > Yes, Amber > > > >   > > > > It was I, looking for the original > information > > and > > > also looked back on > > > > \\Steve//'s post at group to try and find. > Ray > > had > > > mentioned all this > > > > the other day saying that he thought the > posting > > came > > > from \\Steve//. > > > >   > > > > I was not successful in my search.  Also, > for me > > the > > > most important > > > > part was a link to a chart which showed you > > exactly, > > > or explained > > > > exactly the "T" > > > > factor stands for.  For instance, T-4 would > be a > > tube > > > that is a half > > > > inch wide, or close to it-----------I > think.  > > All > > > this is my own > > > > fault.  In my interest to acquire and > learn > > about > > > lighting,I went > > > > through and studied the applied links but > being > > > ol'bill, I never > > > > bookmarked them. > > > > Then to further > > > > compound the problem, I deleted the > original > > message > > > that it came > > > > from.  In hind-sight you could > probably chalk > > this > > > all up to felonious > > > > stupidity on my part. > > > >   > > > > Bill---where its always a good day if I > learn > > > something new! > > > > > > > > --- On Tue, 11/10/09, Amber Berglund <arberglund@...> > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > From: Amber Berglund <arberglund@...> > > > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: > wisteria/lighting > > > previous > > > > question/response revisited > > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > > > Date: Tuesday, November 10, 2009, 9:30 PM > > > > > > > > > > > > I believe it was Steve who posted a link > about > > lumens > > > months back when > > > > (I think it was maybe Bill asking) about > lighting > > for > > > planted > > > > aquariums. > > > > Plants require 2 different spectrums of > light to > > > properly produce > > > > either leaves or flowers (red is more for > flower > > > production and blue > > > > is more for growth, but for the best growing > you > > want > > > a mixture of > > > > BOTH colors). > > > > So in reality you would want a light that > appears > > more > > > brown/reddish > > > > in coloring and a blue/white coloring as > well, > > but > > > they now have bulbs > > > > that have BOTH spectrums built in (I'm sure > they > > don't > > > work as well as > > > > it would to have 2 different bulbs one > mostly red > > and > > > the other mostly > > > > blue on the color spectrum). > > > > Let me see if I still have the link > bookmarked. > > > > What I was trying to say is that Kelvin does > not > > tell > > > you what color > > > > spectrum the light REALLY is, it's actually > > measuring > > > it's light > > > > output color according to how the human > eyes > > perceive > > > it. So 6500 > > > > kelvin in general is what most plants will > > prefer > > > because that is a > > > > mixture of both red and blue spectrums (In > MOST > > bulbs) > > > unfortunately > > > > not all light bulb manufactures have to use > the > > exact > > > same chart for > > > > their colors, so they will have different > colors > > than > > > another bulb > > > > that says it's 6500 Kelvin. what you really > need > > to > > > read is the color > > > > chart on the box, not what lumens it says it > is. > > > > (still searching for link, LOL). > > > > > > > > This isn't the right link but it discusses > the > > > kelvin/lumen problems a > > > > little bit, still looking for the link that > > showed the > > > charts and what > > > > to look for in the color charts. > > > > http://www.americanaquariumproducts.com/Aquarium_Lighting.html > > > > > > > > Will post again when I find the other link > with > > chart > > > examples. > > > > > > > > Amber > > > > > > > > > > > > Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > > > > > > > > > > I think it would be false advertising > or > > > possibly > > > > mis-advertising (if they > > > > > do not know any better) if a company > lists > > their > > > bulbs > > > > as 6500K and they > > > > > aren't. The Kelvin scale, just like > Watts > > and > > > Lumens, > > > > are ALL > > > > > universal and > > > > > scientifically measurable scales BUT, > as I > > > showed > > > > below, not all 40 watt > > > > > bulbs put out the same amount of light > > (lumens) > > > or in > > > > the same color > > > > > spectrum (Kelvin rating). All 40 watt > > bulbs, > > > whether > > > > incandescent, > > > > > fluorescent, CFL, LED, Halogen, etc.... > ALL > > use > > > > only/around 40 watts of > > > > > electricity but their light output can > vary > > > > dramatically. This is why > > > > > fluorescent bulbs are so much more > > efficient > > > than > > > > incandescent bulbs and > > > > > CFL's are even more efficient... as a > 40W > > > fluorescent > > > > bulb puts out a LOT > > > > > more light (lumens) than a 40 watt > > incandescent > > > bulb > > > > and a 40W CFL > > > > > puts out > > > > > more light (lumens) than a 40W > fluorescent > > bulb. > > > This > > > > is why the OLD > > > > > "Watts > > > > > Per Gallon" rule simply does not work > any > > more. > > > > > > > > > > BUT.. if three different companies are > > selling > > > > standard T-10 fluorescent > > > > > bulbs with the same exact rating of > 40W, > > 3550 > > > lumens > > > > and 6500K > > > > > rating... all > > > > > three of those bulbs should be VERY > SIMILAR > > if > > > not > > > > identical in the > > > > > way they > > > > > appear to our eyes (subject to our own > > degree of > > > color > > > > blindness, of > > > > > course!) > > > > > > > > > > In the past, things like "soft white", > > "warm > > > white", > > > > "daylight", "plant > > > > > grow", etc., type terms were used and > are > > still > > > used > > > > but those are just > > > > > simple words (not subject to a > scientific > > scale) > > > to > > > > describe the Kelvin > > > > > rating ranges but lumens are just as > > important > > > since a > > > > bulb could have a > > > > > 6500K rating with only 2200 lumens > where > > another > > > bulb > > > > could have a 6500K > > > > > rating and 3550 or 3700 lumens and > that > > bulb > > > would put > > > > out over 50% more > > > > > light (lumens) in the same color > spectrum > > > (Kelvin > > > > rating) so it would be a > > > > > much more cost effective bulb if it > cost > > the > > > same > > > > amount or only a little > > > > > more. > > > > > > > > > > I'm slightly confused about the "red > and > > blue > > > light > > > > for your plants" as > > > > > those two colors are on opposite ends > of > > the > > > Kelvin > > > > Scale with reds and > > > > > ambers in the lower numbers and greens > and > > blues > > > in > > > > the higher numbers. I > > > > > think this is why you would want a > > mid-range > > > (5000K to > > > > 6500K) bulb as > > > > > those > > > > > are generally considered "full > spectrum" or > > > "daylight" > > > > bulbs. Here's a > > > > > color picture of the Kelvin Scale, > > > > > http://www.bltdirect.com/images/colour-temperature.jpg > > > > > > > > > <http://www.bltdirect.com/images/colour-temperature.jpg> > > > > and you can > > > > > visually > > > > > see that the 5000K to 6500K range is > all > > about > > > the > > > > same "color". I think > > > > > this is also why Actinic bulbs are > usually > > higher > > > and > > > > closer to the 10000K > > > > > range and up... apparently, the Kelvin > > lighting > > > scale > > > > can go up to 20,000K > > > > > (according to this article about Reef > Tanks > > > > > > > http://nh.craigslist.org/for/1423072406.html > > > > > <http://nh.craigslist.org/for/1423072406.html> on, > > > of > > > > all places, > > > > > Craigslist). > > > > > Here is the page that that the above > photo > > link > > > came > > > > from and it has a > > > > > chart > > > > > that also explains things a little more > also > > and > > > talks > > > > about the CRI, yet > > > > > another lighting term (Color Rendition > > Index). > > > > > http://www.bltdirect.com/lampColourTemperatures.php > > > > > <http://www.bltdirect.com/lampColourTemperatures.php> > > > > > > > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > > > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > > > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> (Links > > > to any articles referenced in > > > > > above reply are > > > > listed on the right > > > > > side, alphabetically under Labels and > also > > under > > > > Archives by Year, Month) > > > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > > > > > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > > > > > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On > > > Behalf Of Amber Berglund > > > > > Sent: Tuesday, November 10, 2009 4:22 > PM > > > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: > > wisteria/lighting > > > > previous > > > > > question/response > > > > > revisited > > > > > > > > > > Another thing to consider is one light > > company's > > > 6500 > > > > kelvin rating > > > > > may not > > > > > be identical to another light bulb from > a > > > different > > > > company that's > > > > > rated the > > > > > same. The important thing to look at is > the > > > color > > > > chart they show on the > > > > > boxes, you want more red and blue light > for > > your > > > > plants, green is not > > > > > useful > > > > > or harmful as the plants reflect the > light > > back > > > (makes > > > > them appear more > > > > > green but does nothing else for them). > The > > > kelvin > > > > rating is based on our > > > > > eyes and how they perceive color, so > each > > > company > > > > doesn't have to be > > > > > identical, perhaps some day they will > have > > a > > > universal > > > > way to measure > > > > > light > > > > > spectrums on bulbs that is much less > > confusing. > > > > > > > > > > Amber > > > > > > > > > > Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > OK. So you have a total of 80 > watts > > right > > > now, > > > > which is just over 1 > > > > > > WPG, which means you only have > enough > > > lighting > > > > for low-light, easy to > > > > > > grow plants. See my blog article > > "Planted > > > Tank: > > > > So You Want A Planted > > > > > > Tank" for links to lists of > low-light, > > easy > > > to > > > > grow plants that will > > > > > > do OK in your tank. You should > replace > > > those > > > > tubes at least yearly... > > > > > > although some say every six > months. As > > far > > > as I > > > > know, a 40W bulb is > > > > > > the highest wattage made for this > type > > of > > > > bulb/fixture right now but > > > > > > you can increase your lighting > > > > > > (lumens) and K (Kelvin) rating. > See > > below. > > > > > > > > > > > > NOTE - below links are for > > > example/informational > > > > purposes only, as I > > > > > > know nothing about the sites. > God... > > did I > > > just > > > > say that? Do I really > > > > > > have to add disclaimers to my > posts > > now? LOL > > > Just > > > > laughing at myself. > > > > > > LOL > > > > > > > > > > > > This may be your Sylvania bulb... > > > > > > http://www.lightbulbemporium.com/proddetail.asp?prod=F40/EX50 > > > > > > > > > <http://www.lightbulbemporium.com/proddetail.asp?prod=F40/EX50> > > > > > > <http://www.lightbulbemporium.com/proddetail.asp?prod=F40/EX50 > > > > > > > > > <http://www.lightbulbemporium.com/proddetail.asp?prod=F40/EX50>> > > > > and if > > > > > > it is, then it's the same ratings > as > > the > > > specs in > > > > the T-10 bulb that I > > > > > > copy/pasted below, which is a > pretty > > good > > > bulb > > > > with higher lumens and > > > > > > the higher K rating, although not > a > > 6500K > > > rated > > > > bulb. At the bottom of > > > > > > this page, there was a link to > this > > bulb... > > > > > > > > > > > http://www.lightbulbemporium.com/maxlite_51204_ml_f40t10_850_rscg.as > > > > > p > > > > > > > > > <http://www.lightbulbemporium.com/maxlite_51204_ml_f40t10_850_rscg.a > > > > > sp> > > > > > > > > > > > <http://www.lightbulbemporium.com/maxlite_51204_ml_f40t10_850_rscg.a > > > > > sp > > > > > > > > > <http://www.lightbulbemporium.com/maxlite_51204_ml_f40t10_850_rscg.a > > > > > sp> > > > > > > > > > > > > > which > > > > > > has an even higher lumen rating > of > > 3700, > > > although > > > > not much higher than > > > > > > the 3550 rating but every little > bit > > helps > > > > especially since the > > > > > > MaxLite bulb was a lower price > than > > the > > > Sylvania > > > > bulb. > > > > > > > > > > > > As you will see on this page > > > > > > > > > > > http://www.lightbulbsdirect.com/Merchant2/merchant.mvc?page=001/CTGY > > > > > /F > > > > > > > > > <http://www.lightbulbsdirect.com/Merchant2/merchant.mvc?page=001/CTG > > > > > Y/F> > > > > > > S+Fluo > > > > > > > > > > > <http://www.lightbulbsdirect.com/Merchant2/merchant.mvc?page=001/CTG > > > > > Y/ > > > > > > > > > <http://www.lightbulbsdirect.com/Merchant2/merchant.mvc?page=001/CTG > > > > > Y/> > > > > > > FS+Fluo> > > > > > > rescent > > > > > > > > > > > > The second bulb down would be > similar > > to > > > yours, > > > > except we do not know > > > > > > the lumen or color spectrum rating > on > > your > > > bulb, > > > > unless that link I > > > > > > gave above is actually your bulb > and > > then > > > it > > > > would be the same as this > > > > > > one. The specs on it are: > > > > > > > > > > > > T-10 Fluorescent > > > > > > 40 Watts > > > > > > Length: 48" > > > > > > Medium Bi-Pin Base > > > > > > Color: 5000K Temperature > > > > > > Initial Lumens: 3550 > > > > > > CRI: 84 > > > > > > Average Life: 20,000 Hours > > > > > > > > > > > > The Color spectrum of 5000K > (Kelvin) is > > OK > > > but > > > > 6500K would be much > > > > > better. > > > > > > The Lumens of 3550 is the actual > amount > > of > > > > *light* > > > > > > > > > > > > The next bulb down from that one > is a > > T-12, > > > which > > > > will also fit in > > > > > > your fixture but they are bigger > > diameter > > > bulbs > > > > and this one actually > > > > > > puts out less light (lumens). Here > are > > the > > > > specs: > > > > > > > > > > > > T-12 Fluorescent > > > > > > 40 Watts > > > > > > Length: 48" > > > > > > Base: Medium Bi-Pin Base > > > > > > Initial Lumens: 2200 > > > > > > Average Life: 20,000 Hours > > > > > > Color Temperature: 5000K > > > > > > CRI: 92 > > > > > > > > > > > > It has the same Color spectrum > but > > only > > > 2200 > > > > lumens so the above T-10 > > > > > > bulb has around 50% more lumens > > (light) > > > coming > > > > out of it. > > > > > > > > > > > > Now, if you scroll down to the > second > > from > > > the > > > > bottom on the page, > > > > > > you'll see the Verilux > Instant-Sun > > T-12 > > > bulb > > > > which has a higher Kelvin > > > > > > rating but it doesn't list the > lumens > > so > > > this > > > > needs to be checked out > > > > > > further. While the higher K rating > is > > good, > > > if it > > > > goes back down to > > > > > > only 2200 lumens, instead of the > 3550 > > lumens > > > of > > > > the first referenced > > > > > > bulb above, then I would probably > go > > with > > > the > > > > 3550 lumens, 5000K bulb > > > > > > over the 6280K bulb if the lumens > were > > a > > > LOT > > > > less. > > > > > > > > > > > > (START SNIP) > > > > > > Engineered to reproduce all the > colors > > and > > > > balance of natural light, > > > > > > VeriluxR full spectrum > fluorescent > > tubes > > > feature > > > > Trucolite Phosphor > > > > > > TechnologyT which includes the use > of > > a > > > stable, > > > > custom blend of earth > > > > > > phosphors that create bright, > balanced > > full > > > > spectrum light. > > > > > > T-12 Fluorescent > > > > > > 40 Watts > > > > > > Length: 48" > > > > > > Color Temperature: 6280K > > > > > > CRI: 94 > > > > > > Medium Bi-Pin Base > > > > > > (END SNIP) > > > > > > > > > > > > So, as you can see, there's a few > > things to > > > look > > > > for when shopping for > > > > > > new replacement bulbs. Look for > the > > 5000K > > > to > > > > 6500K bulbs with the > > > > > > higher lumen rating for the dollar > and > > you > > > should > > > > be good. Note that a > > > > > > 3550 or 3700 lumen bulb will put > out > > nearly > > > twice > > > > as much light as a > > > > > > 2000 lumen bulb so it can be easy > to > > > increase > > > > your lighting without > > > > > > increasing the wattage. DO NOT try > to > > use HO > > > or > > > > VHO bulbs... which > > > > > > look similar but have much higher > > wattage, > > > well > > > > over the 40W bulbs you > > > > > > now have. These other HO and VHO > bulbs > > have > > > > different pin arrangements > > > > > > so they will not fit in your > fixture > > anyhow > > > but I > > > > just wanted to save > > > > > > you a trip. > > > > > > > > > > > > Last but not least, if you're > handy, > > you > > > could > > > > even take the bulbs out > > > > > > of your fixtures and line the > insides > > of > > > your > > > > fixtures with nice and > > > > > > crisp and flat aluminum foil > (shiny > > side > > > exposed) > > > > which will also > > > > > > help. Using double stick tape and > then > > > carefully > > > > applying the foil so > > > > > > it does not wrinkle too much will > work > > > well... > > > > especially if the > > > > > > inside of your fixture is black. > A > > white > > > > reflector is good but a > > > > > > mirrored reflector, like that > created > > by > > > the > > > > shiny side of foil, is > > > > > > MUCH better than a black > reflector. > > Most > > > black > > > > fixtures do at least > > > > > > have white reflector areas. > > > > > > > > > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > > > > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > > > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>> > > > > > (Links to any articles referenced in > > > > > > above reply are listed on the > right > > side, > > > > alphabetically under Labels > > > > > > and also under Archives by Year, > > Month) > > > > > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > > > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > > > > > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On > > > > Behalf Of erikaandnewton > > > > > > Sent: Tuesday, November 10, 2009 > 10:17 > > AM > > > > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > > > > > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: > > > wisteria/lighting > > > > previous > > > > > > question/response revisited > > > > > > > > > > > > << When you say "two strips" > do > > you > > > have > > > > two 4' long two-bulb fixtures > > > > > > already or something > else?>> > > > > > > > > > > > > i have two 4' single bulb strip > > lights. > > > > > > > > > > > > >> What kind of lighting do > you > > > currently > > > > have? Look at the bulbs and > > > > > > >> there should be some kind > of > > > writing on > > > > one of the ends. Give us > > > > > > >> that info if you cannot > > decipher > > > it > > > > yourself.<< > > > > > > > > > > > > one bulb is a f40 t10 > > > > > > the other one is a sylvania > daylight > > bulb > > > also > > > > f40 > > > > > > > > > > > > >> It's probably 21" tall, > since > > a > > > common > > > > measurement for a 75G is > > > > > > >> 48"x18"x21" > Tall.>> > > > > > > > > > > > > it is 21 inches tall > > > > > > > > > > > > erika wilmington de usa > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ------------------------------------ > > > > > > > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING > below it > > when > > > replying, Thank > > > > You. > > > > > > > > > > ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> > > > > ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , > > .·´¯`·..><((((º> > > > > PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all > TEXT > > that > > > is NOT > > > > important to the reply & if CHANGING > the > > TOPIC of > > > the original message > > > > MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new > subject > > (was > > > re: old subject)" <- > > > > > > > > > > <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. > > > > , > .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. > > > > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in > this > > matter. > > > > > > > > If you do not want all of the groups > emails, > > instead > > > of unsubscribing, > > > > you can change your delivery option by > clicking > > on > > > "Edit My > > > > Membership" on the home page. > > > > > > > > Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com > > > > to receive the digest, which includes up to > 25 > > posts > > > at a time in a > > > > single email > > > > > > > > Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com > > > > for the No E-Mail option where you will > still be > > able > > > to read messages > > > > on the group and post replies. > > > > > > > > Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com > > > > to receive individual e-mails.Yahoo! Groups > > Links > > > > > > > > > > > >     AquaticLife-fullfeatured@yahoogroups.com > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >       > > > > > > > > > ------------------------------------ > > > > > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it > when > > > replying, Thank You. > > > > > > ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> > > > ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , > .·´¯`·..><((((º> > > > PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT > that > > is > > > NOT important to > > > the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the > original > > > message MODIFY the SUBJECT > > > LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old > subject)" > > <- > > > > > > <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. > > > , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. > > > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this > matter. > > > > > > If you do not want all of the groups emails, > instead > > of > > > unsubscribing, you > > > can change your delivery option by clicking on > "Edit > > My > > > Membership" on the > > > home page.  > > > > > > Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com > > > to receive the digest, which > > > includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single > email > > > > > > Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com > > > for the No E-Mail option where > > > you will still be able to read messages on the > group > > and > > > post replies. > > > > > > Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com > > > to receive individual > > > e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ------------------------------------ > > > > > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it > when > > > replying, Thank You. > > > > > > ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> > > > ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , > .·´¯`·..><((((º> > > > PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT > that > > is > > > NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the > TOPIC > > of > > > the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE > -> > > i.e. "new > > > subject (was re: old subject)" <- > > > > > > <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. > > > , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. > > > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this > matter. > > > > > > If you do not want all of the groups emails, > instead > > of > > > unsubscribing, you can change your delivery > option by > > > clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the home > page.  > > > > > > Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com > > > to receive the digest, which includes up to 25 > posts > > at a > > > time in a single email > > > > > > Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com > > > for the No E-Mail option where you will still be > able > > to > > > read messages on the group and post replies. > > > > > > Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com > > > to receive individual e-mails.Yahoo! Groups > Links > > > > > > > > >     AquaticLife-fullfeatured@yahoogroups.com > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >       > > > > > > ------------------------------------ > > > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when > > replying, Thank You. > > > ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> > > ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> > > PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that > is > > NOT important to > > the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original > > message MODIFY the SUBJECT > > LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" > <- > > > <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. > > , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. > > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. > > > > If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead > of > > unsubscribing, you > > can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit > My > > Membership" on the > > home page.  > > > > Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com > > to receive the digest, which > > includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email > > > > Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com > > for the No E-Mail option where > > you will still be able to read messages on the group > and > > post replies. > > > > Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com > > to receive individual > > e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > > > > > > > ------------------------------------ > > > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when > > replying, Thank You. > > > ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> > > ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> > > PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that > is > > NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC > of > > the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> > i.e. "new > > subject (was re: old subject)" <- > > > <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. > > , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. > > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. > > > > If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead > of > > unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by > > clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the home page.  > > > > Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com > > to receive the digest, which includes up to 25 posts > at a > > time in a single email > > > > Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com > > for the No E-Mail option where you will still be able > to > > read messages on the group and post replies. > > > > Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com > > to receive individual e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > >     AquaticLife-fullfeatured@yahoogroups.com > > > > > > > > >       > > > ------------------------------------ > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when > replying, Thank You. > ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> > ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> > PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is > NOT important to > the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original > message MODIFY the SUBJECT > LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- > <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. > , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. > > If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of > unsubscribing, you > can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My > Membership" on the > home page.  > > Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com > to receive the digest, which > includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email > > Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com > for the No E-Mail option where > you will still be able to read messages on the group and > post replies. > > Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com > to receive individual > e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > ------------------------------------ > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when > replying, Thank You. > ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> > ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> > PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is > NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of > the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new > subject (was re: old subject)" <- > <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. > , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. > > If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of > unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by > clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the home page.  > > Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com > to receive the digest, which includes up to 25 posts at a > time in a single email > > Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com > for the No E-Mail option where you will still be able to > read messages on the group and post replies. > > Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com > to receive individual e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links > > >     AquaticLife-fullfeatured@yahoogroups.com > > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 44457	From: bill 1433	Date: 11/12/2009
Subject: Re: wisteria/lighting previous question/response revisited

You got it girl! That's the whole problem. Please catch the post just made to Len. Bill --- On Thu, 11/12/09, Amber Berglund <arberglund@...> wrote: > From: Amber Berglund <arberglund@...> > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: wisteria/lighting previous question/response revisited > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Date: Thursday, November 12, 2009, 11:28 AM > Bill has smaller bulbs, I think they > are not easy to find in a higher > wattage output, which is what he was looking for a few > months back. > > Amber > > Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > > > > I don't know what you mean by this. Please elaborate. > What size tube? I > > posted about several different bulbs but all were > T-12's, which is one of > > the most common sizes. > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are > listed on the right > > side, alphabetically under Labels and also under > Archives by Year, Month) > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On > > Behalf Of bill 1433 > > Sent: Thursday, November 12, 2009 8:59 AM > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: wisteria/lighting > previous > > question/response > > revisited > > > > Yes Len, > > > > But its finding that size tube with more of anything > that's the problem. > > > > Bill > > > > --- On Wed, 11/11/09, Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@... > > > <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com>> wrote: > > > > > From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@... > > > <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com>> > > > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: wisteria/lighting > previous > > > question/response revisited > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > Date: Wednesday, November 11, 2009, 5:22 PM Well, > if you only have > > > 17W, then you could definitely do better with the > 20W, higher lumen, > > > better K rating bulbs that I mentioned. > Considering the lumen ratings > > > of fluorescent bulbs I've looked at, your 17W > bulbs might only have > > > 500-700 lumens where the BEST 20W bulb (below) > has > > > 1075 lumens so you > > > could possibly increase your lighting by 50% to > 100% just by changing > > > to that bulb. At least, with that bulb, you'll be > in the low-light > > > range for plants on the 20G but the 29G will need > some work. > > > > > > Of course, you should find out what the lumens > and K ratings are on > > > the bulbs you have so you'll know if you are > getting a small jump or a > > > BIG jump in lighting just by changing your bulbs. > Check your local > > > WalMart for bulbs. My nearby WalMart SuperCenter > has a really big > > > assortment of fluorescent tubes and they were > cheaper than the Home > > > Depot. > > > > > > Something else I'm thinking about for you is > going with 18" > > > light-sticks on > > > each end of your 29G tank or front or back (back > would hide it best > > > but you decide your best aesthetics) and you'd > have to make a DIY > > > reflector for it (white poster board and scotch > tape would work) and > > > that would get more lighting down to the bottom > level plants in the > > > 29G. > > > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> (Links > to any articles > > > referenced in above reply are listed on the right > side, alphabetically > > > under Labels and also under Archives by Year, > Month) > > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] > > > On > > > Behalf Of bill 1433 > > > Sent: Wednesday, November 11, 2009 3:42 PM > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: wisteria/lighting > previous > > > question/response > > > revisited > > > > > > It is what it is type of thing Len. Site says > one > > > thing but stamped or > > > printed right on the tube is at 17 watts. > > > > > > Bill > > > > > > --- On Wed, 11/11/09, Lenny V. aka GoldLenny > <GoldLenny@... > > > <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com>> > > > wrote: > > > > > > > From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@... > > > <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com>> > > > > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: > wisteria/lighting > > > previous > > > > question/response revisited > > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > Date: Wednesday, November 11, 2009, 2:16 PM > The > > > problem might be this > > > > statement in the description... > > > > > > > > "... Hoods include 8000ºK bulb... ...20W, > 24"..." > > > > > > > > That's getting into the higher green/blue > Kelvin > > > range... > > > > closer to the > > > > 10,000K actinic type bulbs... than the 5000K > to 6500K > > > "Daylight" bulbs > > > > that provide full spectrum lighting. It's > also only > > > a 20W bulb > > > > (according to the DFS site, although you > stated it was > > > only 17W so > > > > double check this) so it's only 1WPG on the > 20G and > > > only 0.69WPG on > > > > the 29G. Of course, if the bulb puts out a > LOT more > > > lumens (you would > > > > have to do more checking up on the bulb to > find this), > > > that would help > > > > a little but not much. I think you need at > least > > > 1WPG to have success > > > > with low-light plants, although floating > plants like > > > Anacharis, > > > > Hornwort, Duckweed, etc., would be up close > to the > > > light and benefit > > > > from CO2 from the air and would do OK with > your > > > lighting... but then > > > > they would also block out the lighting to > the rest of > > > the tank. > > > > > > > > I don't see a lot of options, as far as T-8 > bulbs are > > > concerned for > > > > this size fixture but I see a few different > T-12's... > > > such as... > > > > > > > > (My rating is: GOOD - but see BETTER and > BEST options > > > below... at > > > > least as far as the bulbs on this site are > concerned) > > > > > > > > > > http://www.servicelighting.com/Sylvania-22119-F20T12-DSGN50-T12-Straig > > > <http://www.servicelighting.com/Sylvania-22119-F20T12-DSGN50-T12-Straig> > > > > ht-Lin > > > > ear-Fluorescent-Light-Bulb > > > > > > > > Light Output: 880 lumens > > > > Refers to the literal measure of the > light-output of a > > > particular > > > > light bulb, measured in the number of > lumens. > > > > > > > > Energy Used: 20 watts > > > > "Watts" is the term applied to the amount of > energy > > > required and used > > > > by a particular light bulb. It is an > international > > > system unit of > > > > power equal to one joule per second. > Contrary to > > > popular belief, the > > > > wattage of a bulb does not directly measure > the > > > brightness; the > > > > "lumens" of a light is what defines the > actual light > > > output. > > > > > > > > Average Lifetime: 9,000 hours > > > > This refers to an average lifetime rating > based on > > > large quantities in > > > > test groups. This testing takes into account > usage of > > > 3 hours per > > > > start for fluorescent lamps and 10 hours per > start for > > > HID lamps. > > > > > > > > Bulb Type: T12 > > > > The "Bulb Type" is typically a combination > of the > > > style of bulb as > > > > well as the width of the bulb. Usually, the > first > > > couple letters will > > > > indicate the type; "G" would indicate > "Globe", "PAR" > > > would indicate > > > > "Parabolic Reflector"... The numbers > indicate the > > > diameter of the > > > > light bulb in eighths of an inch; a "G40" > would be a > > > "Globe" style > > > > that is "5 inches" in diameter. > > > > > > > > > > > > Base Type: Medium Bi-Pin > > > > The "Base" of a light bulb is the part that > either > > > screws or snaps > > > > into a receptacle. Base Type terminology may > indicate > > > common > > > > descriptive words like "Medium" or > "Candelabra", or > > > may even contain > > > > numeric codes that signify size and variety, > like > > > "E26" or "2GX13". > > > > > > > > Color Temperature: 5,000K > > > > Correlated Color Temperature (CCT) is a > specification > > > of the color > > > > appearance of a lamp, relating its color to > that of a > > > reference source > > > > heated to a particular temperature, measured > in > > > degrees Kelvin (K). It > > > > generally measures the "warmth" or > "coolness" of light > > > source > > > > appearance. > > > > > > > > CRI: 90 > > > > CRI refers to the "Color Rendering Index" of > a light > > > bulb. > > > > CRI measures a > > > > light source and grades its ability to > render the > > > color of objects > > > > "correctly," as compared with a reference > source with > > > comparable color > > > > temperature. 100 is perfect rendering. > > > > > > > > Length: 24 inches > > > > > > > > > > > > (BETTER - slightly higher lumens and higher > 6500K > > > rating) > > > > > > > > > > http://www.servicelighting.com/Westinghouse-36516-F20T12-FS-T12-Straig > > > <http://www.servicelighting.com/Westinghouse-36516-F20T12-FS-T12-Straig> > > > > ht-Lin > > > > ear-Fluorescent-Light-Bulb > > > > > > > > Light Output: 900 lumens > > > > Energy Used: 20 watts > > > > Average Lifetime: 10,000 hours > > > > Bulb Type: T12 > > > > Base Type: Medium Bi-Pin > > > > Color Temperature: 6,500K > > > > CRI: 90 > > > > Length: 24 inches > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > (BEST, of these three - around 20% higher > lumens and > > > good 6,500K > > > > rating, although it does have a lower CRI > rating.. but > > > still > > > > passing) > > > > > > > > > > http://www.servicelighting.com/Sylvania-22083-F20T12-D-T12-Straight-Li > > > <http://www.servicelighting.com/Sylvania-22083-F20T12-D-T12-Straight-Li> > > > > near-F > > > > luorescent-Light-Bulb > > > > > > > > Light Output: 1,075 lumens > > > > Energy Used: 20 watts > > > > Average Lifetime: 9,000 hours > > > > Bulb Type: T12 > > > > Base Type: Medium Bi-Pin > > > > Color Temperature: 6,500K > > > > CRI: 76 > > > > Length: 24 inches > > > > > > > > Compare the above three to what is sold as > a > > > plant/aquarium light by > > > > the same company, which has a lower lumens, > MUCH lower > > > CRI rating and > > > > does not list the K rating other than to say > "Plant" > > > which is a > > > > subjective rating established by the > manufacturer. > > > > > > > > (WORST) > > > > > > > > > > http://www.servicelighting.com/Westinghouse-36411-F20T12-PL-T12-Straig > > > <http://www.servicelighting.com/Westinghouse-36411-F20T12-PL-T12-Straig> > > > > ht-Lin > > > > ear-Fluorescent-Light-Bulb > > > > > > > > Light Output: 700 lumens (over 30% less > lighting > > > than the 1,075 > > > > lumens bulb > > > > above) > > > > Energy Used: 20 watts > > > > Average Lifetime: 10,000 hours > > > > Bulb Type: T12 > > > > Base Type: Medium Bi-Pin > > > > Color: Plant > > > > CRI: 61 > > > > Length: 24 inches > > > > > > > > If any of the above have much better lumens > than your > > > current > > > > lighting... > > > > and they all have better K ratings, then any > of them > > > would be better > > > > for you... but you would still be stuck with > only 20 > > > watts but it's > > > > the LUMENS and K rating that count more than > watts. > > > You need to find > > > > out the lumens on your bulb. Try to find it > on the > > > DFS site and let > > > > us know. > > > > > > > > You should look at the AHSupply.com place > for a > > > retrofit kit so you > > > > can use CFL's in your current hood. That > would > > > probably be your least > > > > expensive option. I know you don't like > electricity > > > but I'm sure you > > > > know someone that could do this for you... > on the > > > cheap... or over a > > > > 6-pack. > > > > > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> (Links > to > > > any articles > > > > referenced in above reply are listed on the > right > > > side, alphabetically > > > > under Labels and also under Archives by > Year, Month) > > > > > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] > > > > On > > > > Behalf Of bill 1433 > > > > Sent: Wednesday, November 11, 2009 9:33 AM > > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: > wisteria/lighting > > > previous > > > > question/response > > > > revisited > > > > > > > > Hi \\Steve// > > > > > > > > At this point, and also to refresh your > mind, and > > > anyone > > > > else on the group > > > > that may have interest. This all got started > with > > > my > > > > search for a tube that > > > > would allow me more light output from an All > Glass > > > Plastic > > > > hood and light. > > > > This unit comes with a "color type tube at > 17 watts > > > that is > > > > only 24 inches > > > > long. This is for a 20/29-gallon tank. I > was > > > > stupid enough to buy two of > > > > them, one for each tank. For further > inspection > > > here > > > > is the light: > > > > > > > > > > http://www.drsfostersmith.com/product/prod_display.cfm?pcatid=13447 > > > <http://www.drsfostersmith.com/product/prod_display.cfm?pcatid=13447> > > > > > > > > For those that would like to aggravate > themselves > > > further, > > > > I can also state > > > > that these hoods are very conducive to > growing Black > > > > Algae! > > > > > > > > Summoning up, I should have only purchased > an > > > All-Glass > > > > cover and then > > > > probably a double tube light of sufficient > wattage to > > > bring > > > > me up to the > > > > recommended 2 or 3 watts per gallon. > > > > > > > > Ya live and learn, > > > > > > > > Bill > > > > > > > > > > > > --- On Tue, 11/10/09, Steve Szabo <steve@... > > > <mailto:steve%40familyszabo.com>> > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > From: Steve Szabo <steve@... > > > <mailto:steve%40familyszabo.com>> > > > > > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: > wisteria/lighting > > > > previous > > > > > question/response revisited > > > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > Date: Tuesday, November 10, 2009, 11:50 > PM Bill, > > > you > > > > got it right! The > > > > > T numbers represent the diameter of the > bulb in > > > 1/8" > > > > increments. A T4 > > > > > is a bulb 1/2" in diameter, T5 is 5/8", > t8 is > > > 1" and > > > > a t12 is 1 1/2". > > > > > As I recall, the F is the wattage of > the bulb. > > > > > > > > > > Lumens, not usually stated on the bulb > is the > > > actual > > > > amount of light > > > > > coming from the bulb. It really does > not have > > > anything > > > > to do with > > > > > watts, though more watts will give you > more > > > lumens, > > > > but, also the > > > > > phosphors used in the bulb affect the > amount of > > > lumen > > > > output. Lumens > > > > > and lux are often used interchangeably, > but they > > > are > > > > really different > > > > > measurements. Lux is the measure of > illumination > > > over > > > > a given area. It > > > > > may actually be more important to > aquarists > > > raising > > > > plants than the > > > > > lumen output. Lux is what is measured > by a light > > > > meter, for anyone who > > > > > happens to know what they are--not > often seen > > > with > > > > today's cameras and > > > > > photographers. > > > > > > > > > > Color temperature is important. Average > daylight > > > > (except may in > > > > > Amber's area where they have 6 months > of > > > darkness) has > > > > a color > > > > > temperature of 5500-6000. > > > > > An overcast day can have a color > temperature of > > > 6500. > > > > As mentioned > > > > > earlier, plants need light in two > color > > > spectrums, > > > > and, actually they > > > > > are rather narrow spans of wavelengths > they > > > benefit > > > > from. > > > > > > > > > > I thought I had a bookmark explaining > this, but > > > I > > > > can't find it > > > > > quickly (over 400K of bookmarks, and > things have > > > a > > > > tendency to get > > > > > lost), however, some judicial Googling > will gain > > > you > > > > the information. > > > > > > > > > > \\Steve// > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] > > > > > On > > > > > Behalf Of bill 1433 > > > > > Sent: Tuesday, November 10, 2009 10:20 > PM > > > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: > wisteria/lighting > > > > previous > > > > > question/response revisited > > > > > > > > > > Yes, Amber > > > > > > > > > > It was I, looking for the original > information > > > and > > > > also looked back on > > > > > \\Steve//'s post at group to try and > find. Ray > > > had > > > > mentioned all this > > > > > the other day saying that he thought > the posting > > > came > > > > from \\Steve//. > > > > > > > > > > I was not successful in my search. > Also, for me > > > the > > > > most important > > > > > part was a link to a chart which showed > you > > > exactly, > > > > or explained > > > > > exactly the "T" > > > > > factor stands for. For instance, T-4 > would be a > > > tube > > > > that is a half > > > > > inch wide, or close to it-----------I > think. > > > All > > > > this is my own > > > > > fault. In my interest to acquire and > learn > > > about > > > > lighting,I went > > > > > through and studied the applied links > but being > > > > ol'bill, I never > > > > > bookmarked them. > > > > > Then to further > > > > > compound the problem, I deleted the > original > > > message > > > > that it came > > > > > from. In hind-sight you could probably > chalk > > > this > > > > all up to felonious > > > > > stupidity on my part. > > > > > > > > > > Bill---where its always a good day if I > learn > > > > something new! > > > > > > > > > > --- On Tue, 11/10/09, Amber Berglund > <arberglund@... > > > <mailto:arberglund%40gmail.com>> > > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > From: Amber Berglund <arberglund@... > > > <mailto:arberglund%40gmail.com>> > > > > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: > wisteria/lighting > > > > previous > > > > > question/response revisited > > > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > Date: Tuesday, November 10, 2009, 9:30 > PM > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I believe it was Steve who posted a > link about > > > lumens > > > > months back when > > > > > (I think it was maybe Bill asking) > about lighting > > > for > > > > planted > > > > > aquariums. > > > > > Plants require 2 different spectrums of > light to > > > > properly produce > > > > > either leaves or flowers (red is more > for flower > > > > production and blue > > > > > is more for growth, but for the best > growing you > > > want > > > > a mixture of > > > > > BOTH colors). > > > > > So in reality you would want a light > that appears > > > more > > > > brown/reddish > > > > > in coloring and a blue/white coloring > as well, > > > but > > > > they now have bulbs > > > > > that have BOTH spectrums built in (I'm > sure they > > > don't > > > > work as well as > > > > > it would to have 2 different bulbs one > mostly red > > > and > > > > the other mostly > > > > > blue on the color spectrum). > > > > > Let me see if I still have the link > bookmarked. > > > > > What I was trying to say is that Kelvin > does not > > > tell > > > > you what color > > > > > spectrum the light REALLY is, it's > actually > > > measuring > > > > it's light > > > > > output color according to how the human > eyes > > > perceive > > > > it. So 6500 > > > > > kelvin in general is what most plants > will > > > prefer > > > > because that is a > > > > > mixture of both red and blue spectrums > (In MOST > > > bulbs) > > > > unfortunately > > > > > not all light bulb manufactures have to > use the > > > exact > > > > same chart for > > > > > their colors, so they will have > different colors > > > than > > > > another bulb > > > > > that says it's 6500 Kelvin. what you > really need > > > to > > > > read is the color > > > > > chart on the box, not what lumens it > says it is. > > > > > (still searching for link, LOL). > > > > > > > > > > This isn't the right link but it > discusses the > > > > kelvin/lumen problems a > > > > > little bit, still looking for the link > that > > > showed the > > > > charts and what > > > > > to look for in the color charts. > > > > > http://www.americanaquariumproducts.com/Aquarium_Lighting.html > > > <http://www.americanaquariumproducts.com/Aquarium_Lighting.html> > > > > > > > > > > Will post again when I find the other > link with > > > chart > > > > examples. > > > > > > > > > > Amber > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > I think it would be false > advertising or > > > > possibly > > > > > mis-advertising (if they > > > > > > do not know any better) if a > company lists > > > their > > > > bulbs > > > > > as 6500K and they > > > > > > aren't. The Kelvin scale, just > like Watts > > > and > > > > Lumens, > > > > > are ALL > > > > > > universal and > > > > > > scientifically measurable scales > BUT, as I > > > > showed > > > > > below, not all 40 watt > > > > > > bulbs put out the same amount of > light > > > (lumens) > > > > or in > > > > > the same color > > > > > > spectrum (Kelvin rating). All 40 > watt > > > bulbs, > > > > whether > > > > > incandescent, > > > > > > fluorescent, CFL, LED, Halogen, > etc.... ALL > > > use > > > > > only/around 40 watts of > > > > > > electricity but their light output > can vary > > > > > dramatically. This is why > > > > > > fluorescent bulbs are so much > more > > > efficient > > > > than > > > > > incandescent bulbs and > > > > > > CFL's are even more efficient... > as a 40W > > > > fluorescent > > > > > bulb puts out a LOT > > > > > > more light (lumens) than a 40 > watt > > > incandescent > > > > bulb > > > > > and a 40W CFL > > > > > > puts out > > > > > > more light (lumens) than a 40W > fluorescent > > > bulb. > > > > This > > > > > is why the OLD > > > > > > "Watts > > > > > > Per Gallon" rule simply does not > work any > > > more. > > > > > > > > > > > > BUT.. if three different companies > are > > > selling > > > > > standard T-10 fluorescent > > > > > > bulbs with the same exact rating > of 40W, > > > 3550 > > > > lumens > > > > > and 6500K > > > > > > rating... all > > > > > > three of those bulbs should be > VERY SIMILAR > > > if > > > > not > > > > > identical in the > > > > > > way they > > > > > > appear to our eyes (subject to our > own > > > degree of > > > > color > > > > > blindness, of > > > > > > course!) > > > > > > > > > > > > In the past, things like "soft > white", > > > "warm > > > > white", > > > > > "daylight", "plant > > > > > > grow", etc., type terms were used > and are > > > still > > > > used > > > > > but those are just > > > > > > simple words (not subject to a > scientific > > > scale) > > > > to > > > > > describe the Kelvin > > > > > > rating ranges but lumens are just > as > > > important > > > > since a > > > > > bulb could have a > > > > > > 6500K rating with only 2200 lumens > where > > > another > > > > bulb > > > > > could have a 6500K > > > > > > rating and 3550 or 3700 lumens and > that > > > bulb > > > > would put > > > > > out over 50% more > > > > > > light (lumens) in the same color > spectrum > > > > (Kelvin > > > > > rating) so it would be a > > > > > > much more cost effective bulb if > it cost > > > the > > > > same > > > > > amount or only a little > > > > > > more. > > > > > > > > > > > > I'm slightly confused about the > "red and > > > blue > > > > light > > > > > for your plants" as > > > > > > those two colors are on opposite > ends of > > > the > > > > Kelvin > > > > > Scale with reds and > > > > > > ambers in the lower numbers and > greens and > > > blues > > > > in > > > > > the higher numbers. I > > > > > > think this is why you would want > a > > > mid-range > > > > (5000K to > > > > > 6500K) bulb as > > > > > > those > > > > > > are generally considered "full > spectrum" or > > > > "daylight" > > > > > bulbs. Here's a > > > > > > color picture of the Kelvin > Scale, > > > > > > http://www.bltdirect.com/images/colour-temperature.jpg > > > <http://www.bltdirect.com/images/colour-temperature.jpg> > > > > > > > > > > > <http://www.bltdirect.com/images/colour-temperature.jpg > > > <http://www.bltdirect.com/images/colour-temperature.jpg>> > > > > > and you can > > > > > > visually > > > > > > see that the 5000K to 6500K range > is all > > > about > > > > the > > > > > same "color". I think > > > > > > this is also why Actinic bulbs are > usually > > > higher > > > > and > > > > > closer to the 10000K > > > > > > range and up... apparently, the > Kelvin > > > lighting > > > > scale > > > > > can go up to 20,000K > > > > > > (according to this article about > Reef Tanks > > > > > > > > > http://nh.craigslist.org/for/1423072406.html > > <http://nh.craigslist.org/for/1423072406.html> > > > > > > <http://nh.craigslist.org/for/1423072406.html > > <http://nh.craigslist.org/for/1423072406.html>> > on, > > > > of > > > > > all places, > > > > > > Craigslist). > > > > > > Here is the page that that the > above photo > > > link > > > > came > > > > > from and it has a > > > > > > chart > > > > > > that also explains things a little > more also > > > and > > > > talks > > > > > about the CRI, yet > > > > > > another lighting term (Color > Rendition > > > Index). > > > > > > http://www.bltdirect.com/lampColourTemperatures.php > > <http://www.bltdirect.com/lampColourTemperatures.php> > > > > > > <http://www.bltdirect.com/lampColourTemperatures.php > > <http://www.bltdirect.com/lampColourTemperatures.php>> > > > > > > > > > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > > > > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>> > (Links > > > > to any articles referenced in > > > > > > above reply are > > > > > listed on the right > > > > > > side, alphabetically under Labels > and also > > > under > > > > > Archives by Year, Month) > > > > > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > > > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On > > > > Behalf Of Amber Berglund > > > > > > Sent: Tuesday, November 10, 2009 > 4:22 PM > > > > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: > > > wisteria/lighting > > > > > previous > > > > > > question/response > > > > > > revisited > > > > > > > > > > > > Another thing to consider is one > light > > > company's > > > > 6500 > > > > > kelvin rating > > > > > > may not > > > > > > be identical to another light bulb > from a > > > > different > > > > > company that's > > > > > > rated the > > > > > > same. The important thing to look > at is the > > > > color > > > > > chart they show on the > > > > > > boxes, you want more red and blue > light for > > > your > > > > > plants, green is not > > > > > > useful > > > > > > or harmful as the plants reflect > the light > > > back > > > > (makes > > > > > them appear more > > > > > > green but does nothing else for > them). The > > > > kelvin > > > > > rating is based on our > > > > > > eyes and how they perceive color, > so each > > > > company > > > > > doesn't have to be > > > > > > identical, perhaps some day they > will have > > > a > > > > universal > > > > > way to measure > > > > > > light > > > > > > spectrums on bulbs that is much > less > > > confusing. > > > > > > > > > > > > Amber > > > > > > > > > > > > Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > OK. So you have a total of 80 > watts > > > right > > > > now, > > > > > which is just over 1 > > > > > > > WPG, which means you only > have enough > > > > lighting > > > > > for low-light, easy to > > > > > > > grow plants. See my blog > article > > > "Planted > > > > Tank: > > > > > So You Want A Planted > > > > > > > Tank" for links to lists of > low-light, > > > easy > > > > to > > > > > grow plants that will > > > > > > > do OK in your tank. You > should replace > > > > those > > > > > tubes at least yearly... > > > > > > > although some say every six > months. As > > > far > > > > as I > > > > > know, a 40W bulb is > > > > > > > the highest wattage made for > this type > > > of > > > > > bulb/fixture right now but > > > > > > > you can increase your > lighting > > > > > > > (lumens) and K (Kelvin) > rating. See > > > below. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > NOTE - below links are for > > > > example/informational > > > > > purposes only, as I > > > > > > > know nothing about the sites. > God... > > > did I > > > > just > > > > > say that? Do I really > > > > > > > have to add disclaimers to my > posts > > > now? LOL > > > > Just > > > > > laughing at myself. > > > > > > > LOL > > > > > > > > > > > > > > This may be your Sylvania > bulb... > > > > > > > > > http://www.lightbulbemporium.com/proddetail.asp?prod=F40/EX50 > > > <http://www.lightbulbemporium.com/proddetail.asp?prod=F40/EX50> > > > > > > > > > > > <http://www.lightbulbemporium.com/proddetail.asp?prod=F40/EX50 > > > <http://www.lightbulbemporium.com/proddetail.asp?prod=F40/EX50>> > > > > > > > > > <http://www.lightbulbemporium.com/proddetail.asp?prod=F40/EX50 > > > <http://www.lightbulbemporium.com/proddetail.asp?prod=F40/EX50> > > > > > > > > > > > <http://www.lightbulbemporium.com/proddetail.asp?prod=F40/EX50 > > > <http://www.lightbulbemporium.com/proddetail.asp?prod=F40/EX50>>> > > > > > and if > > > > > > > it is, then it's the same > ratings as > > > the > > > > specs in > > > > > the T-10 bulb that I > > > > > > > copy/pasted below, which is a > pretty > > > good > > > > bulb > > > > > with higher lumens and > > > > > > > the higher K rating, although > not a > > > 6500K > > > > rated > > > > > bulb. At the bottom of > > > > > > > this page, there was a link > to this > > > bulb... > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > http://www.lightbulbemporium.com/maxlite_51204_ml_f40t10_850_rscg.as > > > <http://www.lightbulbemporium.com/maxlite_51204_ml_f40t10_850_rscg.as> > > > > > > p > > > > > > > > > > > > > <http://www.lightbulbemporium.com/maxlite_51204_ml_f40t10_850_rscg.a > > > <http://www.lightbulbemporium.com/maxlite_51204_ml_f40t10_850_rscg.a> > > > > > > sp> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > <http://www.lightbulbemporium.com/maxlite_51204_ml_f40t10_850_rscg.a > > > <http://www.lightbulbemporium.com/maxlite_51204_ml_f40t10_850_rscg.a> > > > > > > sp > > > > > > > > > > > > > <http://www.lightbulbemporium.com/maxlite_51204_ml_f40t10_850_rscg.a > > > <http://www.lightbulbemporium.com/maxlite_51204_ml_f40t10_850_rscg.a> > > > > > > sp> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > which > > > > > > > has an even higher lumen > rating of > > > 3700, > > > > although > > > > > not much higher than > > > > > > > the 3550 rating but every > little bit > > > helps > > > > > especially since the > > > > > > > MaxLite bulb was a lower > price than > > > the > > > > Sylvania > > > > > bulb. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > As you will see on this page > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > http://www.lightbulbsdirect.com/Merchant2/merchant.mvc?page=001/CTGY > > > <http://www.lightbulbsdirect.com/Merchant2/merchant.mvc?page=001/CTGY> > > > > > > /F > > > > > > > > > > > > > <http://www.lightbulbsdirect.com/Merchant2/merchant.mvc?page=001/CTG > > > <http://www.lightbulbsdirect.com/Merchant2/merchant.mvc?page=001/CTG> > > > > > > Y/F> > > > > > > > S+Fluo > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > <http://www.lightbulbsdirect.com/Merchant2/merchant.mvc?page=001/CTG > > > <http://www.lightbulbsdirect.com/Merchant2/merchant.mvc?page=001/CTG> > > > > > > Y/ > > > > > > > > > > > > > <http://www.lightbulbsdirect.com/Merchant2/merchant.mvc?page=001/CTG > > > <http://www.lightbulbsdirect.com/Merchant2/merchant.mvc?page=001/CTG> > > > > > > Y/> > > > > > > > FS+Fluo> > > > > > > > rescent > > > > > > > > > > > > > > The second bulb down would be > similar > > > to > > > > yours, > > > > > except we do not know > > > > > > > the lumen or color spectrum > rating on > > > your > > > > bulb, > > > > > unless that link I > > > > > > > gave above is actually your > bulb and > > > then > > > > it > > > > > would be the same as this > > > > > > > one. The specs on it are: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > T-10 Fluorescent > > > > > > > 40 Watts > > > > > > > Length: 48" > > > > > > > Medium Bi-Pin Base > > > > > > > Color: 5000K Temperature > > > > > > > Initial Lumens: 3550 > > > > > > > CRI: 84 > > > > > > > Average Life: 20,000 Hours > > > > > > > > > > > > > > The Color spectrum of 5000K > (Kelvin) is > > > OK > > > > but > > > > > 6500K would be much > > > > > > better. > > > > > > > The Lumens of 3550 is the > actual amount > > > of > > > > > *light* > > > > > > > > > > > > > > The next bulb down from that > one is a > > > T-12, > > > > which > > > > > will also fit in > > > > > > > your fixture but they are > bigger > > > diameter > > > > bulbs > > > > > and this one actually > > > > > > > puts out less light (lumens). > Here are > > > the > > > > > specs: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > T-12 Fluorescent > > > > > > > 40 Watts > > > > > > > Length: 48" > > > > > > > Base: Medium Bi-Pin Base > > > > > > > Initial Lumens: 2200 > > > > > > > Average Life: 20,000 Hours > > > > > > > Color Temperature: 5000K > > > > > > > CRI: 92 > > > > > > > > > > > > > > It has the same Color > spectrum but > > > only > > > > 2200 > > > > > lumens so the above T-10 > > > > > > > bulb has around 50% more > lumens > > > (light) > > > > coming > > > > > out of it. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Now, if you scroll down to > the second > > > from > > > > the > > > > > bottom on the page, > > > > > > > you'll see the Verilux > Instant-Sun > > > T-12 > > > > bulb > > > > > which has a higher Kelvin > > > > > > > rating but it doesn't list > the lumens > > > so > > > > this > > > > > needs to be checked out > > > > > > > further. While the higher K > rating is > > > good, > > > > if it > > > > > goes back down to > > > > > > > only 2200 lumens, instead of > the 3550 > > > lumens > > > > of > > > > > the first referenced > > > > > > > bulb above, then I would > probably go > > > with > > > > the > > > > > 3550 lumens, 5000K bulb > > > > > > > over the 6280K bulb if the > lumens were > > > a > > > > LOT > > > > > less. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > (START SNIP) > > > > > > > Engineered to reproduce all > the colors > > > and > > > > > balance of natural light, > > > > > > > VeriluxR full spectrum > fluorescent > > > tubes > > > > feature > > > > > Trucolite Phosphor > > > > > > > TechnologyT which includes > the use of > > > a > > > > stable, > > > > > custom blend of earth > > > > > > > phosphors that create bright, > balanced > > > full > > > > > spectrum light. > > > > > > > T-12 Fluorescent > > > > > > > 40 Watts > > > > > > > Length: 48" > > > > > > > Color Temperature: 6280K > > > > > > > CRI: 94 > > > > > > > Medium Bi-Pin Base > > > > > > > (END SNIP) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > So, as you can see, there's a > few > > > things to > > > > look > > > > > for when shopping for > > > > > > > new replacement bulbs. Look > for the > > > 5000K > > > > to > > > > > 6500K bulbs with the > > > > > > > higher lumen rating for the > dollar and > > > you > > > > should > > > > > be good. Note that a > > > > > > > 3550 or 3700 lumen bulb will > put out > > > nearly > > > > twice > > > > > as much light as a > > > > > > > 2000 lumen bulb so it can be > easy to > > > > increase > > > > > your lighting without > > > > > > > increasing the wattage. DO > NOT try to > > > use HO > > > > or > > > > > VHO bulbs... which > > > > > > > look similar but have much > higher > > > wattage, > > > > well > > > > > over the 40W bulbs you > > > > > > > now have. These other HO and > VHO bulbs > > > have > > > > > different pin arrangements > > > > > > > so they will not fit in your > fixture > > > anyhow > > > > but I > > > > > just wanted to save > > > > > > > you a trip. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Last but not least, if you're > handy, > > > you > > > > could > > > > > even take the bulbs out > > > > > > > of your fixtures and line the > insides > > > of > > > > your > > > > > fixtures with nice and > > > > > > > crisp and flat aluminum foil > (shiny > > > side > > > > exposed) > > > > > which will also > > > > > > > help. Using double stick tape > and then > > > > carefully > > > > > applying the foil so > > > > > > > it does not wrinkle too much > will work > > > > well... > > > > > especially if the > > > > > > > inside of your fixture is > black. A > > > white > > > > > reflector is good but a > > > > > > > mirrored reflector, like that > created > > > by > > > > the > > > > > shiny side of foil, is > > > > > > > MUCH better than a black > reflector. > > > Most > > > > black > > > > > fixtures do at least > > > > > > > have white reflector areas. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > > > > > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>> > > > > > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>>> > > > > > > (Links to any articles referenced > in > > > > > > > above reply are listed on the > right > > > side, > > > > > alphabetically under Labels > > > > > > > and also under Archives by > Year, > > > Month) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > > > > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On > > > > > Behalf Of erikaandnewton > > > > > > > Sent: Tuesday, November 10, > 2009 10:17 > > > AM > > > > > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: > > > > wisteria/lighting > > > > > previous > > > > > > > question/response revisited > > > > > > > > > > > > > > << When you say "two > strips" do > > > you > > > > have > > > > > two 4' long two-bulb fixtures > > > > > > > already or something > else?>> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > i have two 4' single bulb > strip > > > lights. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> What kind of > lighting do you > > > > currently > > > > > have? Look at the bulbs and > > > > > > > >> there should be some > kind of > > > > writing on > > > > > one of the ends. Give us > > > > > > > >> that info if you > cannot > > > decipher > > > > it > > > > > yourself.<< > > > > > > > > > > > > > > one bulb is a f40 t10 > > > > > > > the other one is a sylvania > daylight > > > bulb > > > > also > > > > > f40 > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> It's probably 21" > tall, since > > > a > > > > common > > > > > measurement for a 75G is > > > > > > > >> 48"x18"x21" > Tall.>> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > it is 21 inches tall > > > > > > > > > > > > > > erika wilmington de usa > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ------------------------------------ > > > > > > > > > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING > below it > > > when > > > > replying, Thank > > > > > You. > > > > > > > > > > > > > ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> > > > > > ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , > > > .·´¯`·..><((((º> > > > > > PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, > DELETE all TEXT > > > that > > > > is NOT > > > > > important to the reply & if > CHANGING the > > > TOPIC of > > > > the original message > > > > > MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new > subject > > > (was > > > > re: old subject)" <- > > > > > > > > > > > > > <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. > > > > > , > .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. > > > > > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP > in this > > > matter. > > > > > > > > > > If you do not want all of the groups > emails, > > > instead > > > > of unsubscribing, > > > > > you can change your delivery option by > clicking > > > on > > > > "Edit My > > > > > Membership" on the home page. > > > > > > > > > > Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com > > > <mailto:aquaticlife-digest%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > to receive the digest, which includes > up to 25 > > > posts > > > > at a time in a > > > > > single email > > > > > > > > > > Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com > > > <mailto:aquaticlife-nomail%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > for the No E-Mail option where you will > still be > > > able > > > > to read messages > > > > > on the group and post replies. > > > > > > > > > > Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com > > > <mailto:aquaticlife-normal%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > to receive individual e-mails.Yahoo! > Groups > > > Links > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > AquaticLife-fullfeatured@yahoogroups.com > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife-fullfeatured%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ------------------------------------ > > > > > > > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING > below it when > > > > replying, Thank You. > > > > > > > > ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> > > > > ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , > .·´¯`·..><((((º> > > > > PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all > TEXT that > > > is > > > > NOT important to > > > > the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the > original > > > > message MODIFY the SUBJECT > > > > LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old > subject)" > > > <- > > > > > > > > <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. > > > > , > .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. > > > > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in > this matter. > > > > > > > > If you do not want all of the groups emails, > instead > > > of > > > > unsubscribing, you > > > > can change your delivery option by clicking > on "Edit > > > My > > > > Membership" on the > > > > home page. > > > > > > > > Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com > > > <mailto:aquaticlife-digest%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > to receive the digest, which > > > > includes up to 25 posts at a time in a > single email > > > > > > > > Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com > > > <mailto:aquaticlife-nomail%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > for the No E-Mail option where > > > > you will still be able to read messages on > the group > > > and > > > > post replies. > > > > > > > > Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com > > > <mailto:aquaticlife-normal%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > to receive individual > > > > e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ------------------------------------ > > > > > > > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING > below it when > > > > replying, Thank You. > > > > > > > > ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> > > > > ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , > .·´¯`·..><((((º> > > > > PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all > TEXT that > > > is > > > > NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING > the TOPIC > > > of > > > > the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE > -> > > > i.e. "new > > > > subject (was re: old subject)" <- > > > > > > > > <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. > > > > , > .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. > > > > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in > this matter. > > > > > > > > If you do not want all of the groups emails, > instead > > > of > > > > unsubscribing, you can change your delivery > option by > > > > clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the home > page. > > > > > > > > Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com > > > <mailto:aquaticlife-digest%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > to receive the digest, which includes up to > 25 posts > > > at a > > > > time in a single email > > > > > > > > Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com > > > <mailto:aquaticlife-nomail%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > for the No E-Mail option where you will > still be able > > > to > > > > read messages on the group and post > replies. > > > > > > > > Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com > > > <mailto:aquaticlife-normal%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > to receive individual e-mails.Yahoo! Groups > Links > > > > > > > > > > > > AquaticLife-fullfeatured@yahoogroups.com > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife-fullfeatured%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ------------------------------------ > > > > > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it > when > > > replying, Thank You. > > > > ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> > > > ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , > .·´¯`·..><((((º> > > > PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT > that is > > > NOT important to > > > the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the > original > > > message MODIFY the SUBJECT > > > LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old > subject)" <- > > > > <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. > > > , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. > > > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this > matter. > > > > > > If you do not want all of the groups emails, > instead of > > > unsubscribing, you > > > can change your delivery option by clicking on > "Edit My > > > Membership" on the > > > home page. > > > > > > Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com > > > <mailto:aquaticlife-digest%40yahoogroups.com> > > > to receive the digest, which > > > includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single > email > > > > > > Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com > > > <mailto:aquaticlife-nomail%40yahoogroups.com> > > > for the No E-Mail option where > > > you will still be able to read messages on the > group and > > > post replies. > > > > > > Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com > > > <mailto:aquaticlife-normal%40yahoogroups.com> > > > to receive individual > > > e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ------------------------------------ > > > > > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it > when > > > replying, Thank You. > > > > ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> > > > ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , > .·´¯`·..><((((º> > > > PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT > that is > > > NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the > TOPIC of > > > the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE > -> i.e. "new > > > subject (was re: old subject)" <- > > > > <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. > > > , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. > > > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this > matter. > > > > > > If you do not want all of the groups emails, > instead of > > > unsubscribing, you can change your delivery > option by > > > clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the home > page. > > > > > > Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com > > > <mailto:aquaticlife-digest%40yahoogroups.com> > > > to receive the digest, which includes up to 25 > posts at a > > > time in a single email > > > > > > Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com > > > <mailto:aquaticlife-nomail%40yahoogroups.com> > > > for the No E-Mail option where you will still be > able to > > > read messages on the group and post replies. > > > > > > Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com > > > <mailto:aquaticlife-normal%40yahoogroups.com> > > > to receive individual e-mails.Yahoo! Groups > Links > > > > > > > > > AquaticLife-fullfeatured@yahoogroups.com > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife-fullfeatured%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > > > > > > > ------------------------------------ > > > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when > replying, Thank You. > > > ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> > ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> > > PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that > is NOT important to > > the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original > message MODIFY the > > SUBJECT > > LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" > <- > > > <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. > , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. > > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. > > > > If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead > of unsubscribing, you > > can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit > My Membership" on the > > home page. > > > > Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com > > > <mailto:aquaticlife-digest%40yahoogroups.com> to > receive the digest, which > > includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email > > > > Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com > > > <mailto:aquaticlife-nomail%40yahoogroups.com> > for the No E-Mail option > > where > > you will still be able to read messages on the group > and post replies. > > > > Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com > > > <mailto:aquaticlife-normal%40yahoogroups.com> to > receive individual > > e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > > ------------------------------------ > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when > replying, Thank You. > ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> > ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> > PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is > NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of > the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new > subject (was re: old subject)" <- > <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. > , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. > > If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of > unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by > clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the home page.  > > Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com > to receive the digest, which includes up to 25 posts at a > time in a single email > > Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com > for the No E-Mail option where you will still be able to > read messages on the group and post replies. > > Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com > to receive individual e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links > > >     AquaticLife-fullfeatured@yahoogroups.com > > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 44458	From: bill 1433	Date: 11/12/2009
Subject: Re: Why am I getting these weird messages to this address?

Hi Wendie, When you join a group or sometime on its own, Yahoo mail defaults to "the new enhanced mail". At the first sign of any problem its always a good idea to go back and double check these settings. I think Len already mentioned most of this. Bill --- On Thu, 11/12/09, Wendie <wendieo@...> wrote: > From: Wendie <wendieo@...> > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Why am I getting these weird messages to this address? > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Date: Thursday, November 12, 2009, 11:59 AM > That could be the answer.  In > checking, I found that mine had been changed from > traditional > to the new enhanced mail.  I changed back to the > traditional and will await some emails. > Wendie > >   ----- Original Message ----- >   From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny >   To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > >   Sent: Thursday, November 12, 2009 11:19 AM >   Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Why am I getting these > weird messages to this address? > > >     >   Oops.. I should have read more replies before I sent > my previous reply. > >   Since you are getting plain text on your email > client (is it Outlook, >   Outlook Express or other???), NEXT, check to see if > you have your Yahoo >   Group's setting for AquaticLife set to receive > Traditional or Enhanced >   versions. Yahoo did make recent changes to the way > the Enhanced mail is >   formatted so it could be due to this. Go to the http://www.YGroupsBlog.com >   and read the most recent posts and you will see the > changes. > >   Lenny Vasbinder >   Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com >   (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are > listed on the right >   side, alphabetically under Labels and also under > Archives by Year, Month) > >   -----Original Message----- >   From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] > On >   Behalf Of Donna Ransome >   Sent: Thursday, November 12, 2009 6:42 AM >   To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com >   Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Why am I getting these > weird messages to this >   address? > >   Plain text. > >   _____ > >   From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] > On >   Behalf Of Steve Szabo >   Sent: Thursday, November 12, 2009 7:10 AM >   To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com >   Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Why am I getting these > weird messages to this >   address? > >   It would be interesting to see whose messages are > doing this for you. I am >   not seeing any of this, but I do have my settings > for plain text on the >   Yahoo! lists I belong to, and I have not seen it. > Are you receiving plain >   text only, or do you receive the HTML versions of > the messages? > >   \\Steve// > >   -----Original Message----- >   From: AquaticLife@ > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > yahoogroups.com >   [mailto:AquaticLife@ > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > yahoogroups.com] >   On Behalf Of Donna Ransome >   Sent: Thursday, November 12, 2009 6:56 AM >   To: AquaticLife@ > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > yahoogroups.com >   Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Why am I getting these > weird messages to this >   address? > >   Just certain ones from this list. Should I look at > who the senders have >   been? > >   _____ > >   From: AquaticLife@ > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > yahoogroups.com >   [mailto:AquaticLife@ > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > yahoogroups.com] >   On Behalf Of Steve Szabo >   Sent: Wednesday, November 11, 2009 10:40 PM >   To: AquaticLife@ > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > yahoogroups.com >   Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Why am I getting these > weird messages to this >   address? > >   Donna, > >   I'd venture that something is munging the messages > along the way from Yahoo! >   to you. Unless this is happening to others here, it > probably is not a Yahoo! >   problem, but occurring at a point closer to you. Do > all your messages come >   in this way? If not is it happening to just Yahoo! > messages, or is it just >   those from this list? > >   \\Steve// > >   -----Original Message----- >   From: AquaticLife@ > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > yahoogroups.com >   [mailto:AquaticLife@ > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > yahoogroups.com] >   On Behalf Of Donna Ransome >   Sent: Wednesday, November 11, 2009 7:54 PM >   To: AquaticLife@ > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > yahoogroups.com >   Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Why am I getting these > weird messages to this >   address? > >   sentto-8495157- >   > <mailto:sentto-8495157-44406-1257953244-djransome%3Doptonline.net%40returns. >   groups.yahoo> 44406-1257953244- >   > <mailto:44406-1257953244-djransome%3Doptonline.net%40returns.groups.yahoo> >   djransome=optonline.net@... >   .com > >   It seems to be associated with aquatic life. This > one eventually was from >   Bill with a bunch of stuff in the header first. > >   _____ > >   From: AquaticLife@ > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > yahoogroups.com >   [mailto:AquaticLife@ > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > yahoogroups.com] >   On Behalf Of Steve Szabo >   Sent: Wednesday, November 11, 2009 6:43 AM >   To: AquaticLife@ > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > yahoogroups.com >   Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: wisteria/lighting > previous question/response >   revisited > >   Lenny, > >   I don't need no steenkin' hack. In Firefox, the > bookmarks are kept as they >   should be, as one file, not each bookmark in a > separate file gobbling up >   disk space as IE does. It also eats up space in the > MFT (Master File Table). > >   For those who do not know about such things, when a > drive is formatted to >   hold data, it is broken up into groups of sectors, > known as clusters, the >   value of which defaults, in Windows, to 4K (4096 > bytes). They can be any >   value from 512 bytes to at least 32K (it may be even > larger now, with NTFS >   (new technology file system, but 32K was the limit > under 16 bit DOS). When a >   file is written to disk, using 4K cluster size for > the example, it takes up >   as many clusters as needed. So, a file that is 32K > in size would use 8 >   clusters (4K x 8). A file that is 28K would use 7 > clusters (28 k/4K=7). >   However, a file that is 29K would use 8 clusters. It > would fill the 7 >   clusters, with an extra 1024 bytes, which are placed > in the next, or 8th >   cluster, leaving 3K of that cluster as being > unavailable to another file. > >   Consider now, that each bookmark is generally less > than 1K (1024 bytes). >   When you are using IE (Internet Explorer), that > means that you are wasting >   3K of each available cluster to store the bookmark > as a file. Let us assume >   you have 400 bookmarks. I am sure you can do the > math. That would mean that >   you have 400 files, each taking up 4K of disk space, > meaning that you are >   using 1600K to store those files. This means that > 400 entries are placed in >   the MFT. > >   In the case of Firefox, and other browsers not based > on IE, all the >   bookmarks are stored in a file. Say that you have > the same 400 bookmarks, >   using 1K as the size of each bookmark, on average, > that would mean that you >   have a file that is 400K in size, which > (conveniently, it seems) works out >   to a 100K file, stored in 25 clusters and 1 entry in > the MFT. A great >   savings in disk space. > >   There are other issues to consider here as well, but > I am sure you are >   plenty bored by know. However, (oh no!, he's going > to say more even though >   he said he was done) please keep in mind that drive > manufacturers use a >   decimal system to calculate drive sizes, so that > 250GB drive you have in >   your box is not 250GB to the computer, which uses a > binary system to >   calculate drive size. That is why, when you look at > the drive size through >   your operating system, the drive appears to be > smaller than advertised. It's >   kind of like that 55 gallon tank that actually holds > less than 55 gallons. >   Tank measurements are measuring the outside > dimensions of the tank not the >   inside dimensions, plus, none of use fills a tank > right to the top of the >   tank, giving us an actual capacity of somewhat less > than 55 gallons, and >   that is before we add substrate and decorations, > fish, and plants to the >   tank, each displacing a certain amount of water. > (You may insert your own >   Archimedes joke here.) (Notice how I actually > brought this back onto an >   aquarium topic?) > >   \\Steve// > >   -----Original Message----- >   From: AquaticLife@ > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > yahoogroups.com >   [mailto:AquaticLife@ > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > yahoogroups.com] >   On Behalf Of Lenny V. aka GoldLenny >   Sent: Wednesday, November 11, 2009 1:30 AM >   To: AquaticLife@ > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > yahoogroups.com >   Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: wisteria/lighting > previous question/response >   revisited > >   Yeah... I keep kind of hoping that Google will > eventually provide an online >   "Bookmarks/Favorites" service or homepage add-in, > which would also include a >   search feature and maybe even a way to scan for bad > links in the >   Bookmarks/Favorites instead of finding out when you > go to use that long kept >   bookmark/favorite and the site no longer exists... > of course, there's always >   the Wayback Machine at the Internet Archive http://www.archive. >   <http://www.archive. <http://www.archive. <http://www.archive.org> org> org> >   org to find websites/pages that have disappeared > from the net. > >   I regularly go into my IE Favorites and use the > "Organize Favorites" feature >   to move things around but also will use Windows > Explorer, C:\Documents and >   Settings\Owner\Favorites\, to look at my Favorites > folder and drag and drop, >   move and rename things around in there. > >   Then, there is this Registry hack to mass sort the > Favorites folder, >   sub-folders and files, instead of having to "Sort By > Name" inside each >   folder. From http://www.theelder <http://www.theelder <http://www.theelder >   <http://www.theeldergeek.com/sort_favorites_menu_alphabetical.htm> >   geek.com/sort_favorites_menu_alphabetical.htm> >   geek.com/sort_favorites_menu_alphabetical.htm> >   geek.com/sort_favorites_menu_alphabetical.htm (with > some added instructions >   by me to clarify some things). > >   Sort Favorites Menu Alphabetically >   [Start] [Run] [Regedit] >   Registry Key: >   > HKEY_CURRENT_USER\Software\Microsoft\Windows\CurrentVersion\Explorer\MenuOrd >   er\Favorites >   (Click on Favorites to highlight, then in the view > panel) Right click the >   Favorites key *Order* and click Delete Exit registry > and reboot. > >   Lenny Vasbinder >   Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny. >   <http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> blogspot.com> >   blogspot.com> blogspot.com (Links to any articles > referenced in above reply >   are listed on the right side, alphabetically under > Labels and also under >   Archives by Year, Month) > >   -----Original Message----- >   From: AquaticLife@ > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > yahoogroups.com >   [mailto:AquaticLife@ > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > yahoogroups.com] >   On Behalf Of Steve Szabo >   Sent: Tuesday, November 10, 2009 11:43 PM >   To: AquaticLife@ > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > yahoogroups.com >   Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: wisteria/lighting > previous question/response >   revisited > >   Lenny, >   I have a couple of problems. First, I do have a lot > of folders and sub >   folders for things, and try to use them. However, I > can also be pressed for >   time, and just bookmark it, thinking I'll fix it > later. Somehow, later comes >   even later than one would expect, and when it does > arrive, I do a bunch, but >   never finish going through the list. > >   The other problem is that what made sense at the > time, may not make sense >   when I am looking for the bookmark, possible because > I a thinking about the >   topic in a different way than when I bookmarked the > site. It is kind of like >   how one searches the web. If your first key words do > not provide what you >   are looking for, you modify those terms and search > again. Same topic, a bit >   different way of looking at it. Eventually, you will > get what you want. What >   I probably need is a bookmark search engine. > >   For those of you who were born and weaned with > Windows, bookmarks is the >   correct term, not Microsoft's Favorites, though, I > must admit, it is >   possible to have favorite bookmarks. > >   \\Steve// > >   -----Original Message----- >   From: AquaticLife@ > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > yahoogroups.com >   [mailto:AquaticLife@ > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > yahoogroups.com] >   On Behalf Of Lenny V. aka GoldLenny >   Sent: Tuesday, November 10, 2009 11:57 PM >   To: AquaticLife@ > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > yahoogroups.com >   Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: wisteria/lighting > previous question/response >   revisited > >   Bookmarks and Favorites are filing systems... if you > don't know how/where >   it's filed, you won't find it anyhow. > >   I have an extensive Favorites folder with dozens of > primary folders and then >   dozens if not hundreds of sub-folders and > sub-sub-folders, for example, >   under Favorites, I have 59 primary folders and one > of them is called >   Aquarium Sites, then, in that folder, I have 44 > alphabetized sub-folders >   just in that folder, from Additives and Algae to > Tutorials-Quizzes and UGF >   Filters (no V,W,X,Y,Z sub-folders under Aquarium... > not sure why not). Then >   in the Algae folder, I have 7 sub-sub-folders > dealing with topics such as >   Algae Eaters, Allelopathic Control, Diatoms-Brown > Algae, Hair Algae, >   Hydrogen Peroxide, Pond Algae, SeaChem Flourish > Excel For Treating Algae and >   then 11 other favorites about Algae in general, for > a total of 48 links, >   just about Algae. > >   My Favorites folder, when looking at its Properties, > is 1.41MB in size and >   consists of 2,057 files (links) and 306 folders > (incl. sub and sub-sub >   folders) in totality. Many years of surfing and > saving and starting off with >   an organizational plan from the start makes it easy > for me to navigate and >   find things easily. My Favorites is like a > mini-Google. ;-) > >   I have been toying around with the idea of using a > web resource to keep my >   Favorites folder online so I can sync it with all of > my computers and/or >   just use it as an online Favorites folder that I can > log into from any >   computer. For now, I use LogMeIn (Free) to connect > to my main computer from >   my laptop when I'm out in the streets playing... > oops.. I meant working. > >   But I don't think I'd share my Favorites or then I'd > have to go in and edit >   out all my favorite porn links... well, maybe not > for Bill. LOL > >   Lenny Vasbinder >   Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny. >   <http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> blogspot.com> >   blogspot.com> blogspot.com (Links to any articles > referenced in above reply >   are listed on the right side, alphabetically under > Labels and also under >   Archives by Year, Month) > >   -----Original Message----- >   From: AquaticLife@ > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > yahoogroups.com >   [mailto:AquaticLife@ > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > yahoogroups.com] >   On Behalf Of Amber Berglund >   Sent: Tuesday, November 10, 2009 10:25 PM >   To: AquaticLife@ > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > yahoogroups.com >   Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: wisteria/lighting > previous question/response >   revisited > >   No worries Bill, I do the same thing, maybe Lenny > will be so kind as to send >   us all his bookmarks? LOL > >   Amber > >   bill 1433 wrote: >   > >   > Yes, Amber >   > >   > It was I, looking for the original information > and also looked back on >   > \\Steve//'s post at group to try and find. Ray > had mentioned all this >   > the other day saying that he thought the > posting came from \\Steve//. >   > >   > I was not successful in my search. Also, for me > the most important >   > part was a link to a chart which showed you > exactly, or explained >   > exactly the "T" factor stands for. For > instance, T-4 would be a tube >   > that is a half inch wide, or close to > it-----------I think. All this >   > is my own fault. In my interest to acquire and > learn about lighting,I >   > went through and studied the applied links but > being ol'bill, I never >   > bookmarked them. Then to further compound the > problem, I deleted the >   > original message that it came from. In > hind-sight you could probably >   > chalk this all up to felonious stupidity on my > part. >   > >   > Bill---where its always a good day if I learn > something new! >   > >   > --- On Tue, 11/10/09, Amber Berglund > <arberglund@gmail. >   <mailto:arberglund%40gmail.com> com >   > <mailto:arberglund%40gmail.com>> > wrote: >   > >   > From: Amber Berglund <arberglund@gmail. >   > <mailto:arberglund%40gmail.com> >   com >   > <mailto:arberglund%40gmail.com>> >   > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: > wisteria/lighting previous >   > question/response revisited >   > To: AquaticLife@ > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> >   > yahoogroups.com >   <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> >   > Date: Tuesday, November 10, 2009, 9:30 PM >   > >   > I believe it was Steve who posted a link about > lumens months back when >   > (I think it was maybe Bill asking) about > lighting for planted aquariums. >   > Plants require 2 different spectrums of light > to properly produce >   > either leaves or flowers (red is more for > flower production and blue >   > is more for growth, but for the best growing > you want a mixture of >   > BOTH >   colors). >   > So in reality you would want a light that > appears more brown/reddish >   > in coloring and a blue/white coloring as well, > but they now have bulbs >   > that have BOTH spectrums built in (I'm sure > they don't work as well as >   > it would to have 2 different bulbs one mostly > red and the other mostly >   > blue on the color spectrum). >   > Let me see if I still have the link > bookmarked. >   > What I was trying to say is that Kelvin does > not tell you what color >   > spectrum the light REALLY is, it's actually > measuring it's light >   > output color according to how the human eyes > perceive it. So 6500 >   > kelvin in general is what most plants will > prefer because that is a >   > mixture of both red and blue spectrums (In MOST > bulbs) unfortunately >   > not all light bulb manufactures have to use the > exact same chart for >   > their colors, so they will have different > colors than another bulb >   > that says it's 6500 Kelvin. what you really > need to read is the color >   > chart on the box, not what lumens it says it > is. >   > (still searching for link, LOL). >   > >   > This isn't the right link but it discusses the > kelvin/lumen problems a >   > little bit, still looking for the link that > showed the charts and what >   > to look for in the color charts. >   > http://www.american >   <http://www.american >   <http://www.american >   <http://www.americanaquariumproducts.com/Aquarium_Lighting.html> >   aquariumproducts.com/Aquarium_Lighting.html> >   aquariumproducts.com/Aquarium_Lighting.html> >   aquariumproducts.com/Aquarium_Lighting.html >   > <http://www.american >   <http://www.american >   <http://www.american >   <http://www.americanaquariumproducts.com/Aquarium_Lighting.html> >   aquariumproducts.com/Aquarium_Lighting.html> >   aquariumproducts.com/Aquarium_Lighting.html> >   aquariumproducts.com/Aquarium_Lighting.html> >   > >   > Will post again when I find the other link with > chart examples. >   > >   > Amber >   > >   > Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: >   > > >   > > I think it would be false advertising or > possibly mis-advertising >   > (if they >   > > do not know any better) if a company lists > their bulbs as 6500K and >   > > they aren't. The Kelvin scale, just like > Watts and Lumens, are ALL >   > > universal and scientifically measurable > scales BUT, as I showed >   > > below, not all 40 watt bulbs put out the > same amount of light >   > > (lumens) or in the same color spectrum > (Kelvin rating). All 40 watt >   > > bulbs, whether incandescent, fluorescent, > CFL, LED, Halogen, etc.... >   > > ALL use only/around 40 watts of > electricity but their light output >   > > can vary dramatically. This is why > fluorescent bulbs are so much >   > > more efficient than incandescent bulbs and > CFL's are even more >   > > efficient... as a 40W fluorescent bulb > puts out >   > a LOT >   > > more light (lumens) than a 40 watt > incandescent bulb and a 40W CFL >   > > puts out more light (lumens) than a 40W > fluorescent bulb. This is >   > > why the OLD "Watts Per Gallon" rule simply > does not work any more. >   > > >   > > BUT.. if three different companies are > selling standard T-10 >   > > fluorescent bulbs with the same exact > rating of 40W, 3550 lumens and >   > > 6500K rating... all three of those bulbs > should be VERY SIMILAR if >   > > not identical in the way they appear to > our eyes (subject to our own >   > > degree of color blindness, of >   > > course!) >   > > >   > > In the past, things like "soft white", > "warm white", "daylight", >   > > "plant grow", etc., type terms were used > and are still used but >   > > those are just simple words (not subject > to a scientific scale) to >   > > describe the Kelvin rating ranges but > lumens are just as important >   > > since a bulb could have a 6500K rating > with only 2200 lumens where >   > > another bulb could have a 6500K rating and > 3550 or 3700 lumens and >   > > that bulb would put out over 50% more > light (lumens) in the same >   > > color spectrum (Kelvin rating) so it >   > would be a >   > > much more cost effective bulb if it cost > the same amount or only a >   > little >   > > more. >   > > >   > > I'm slightly confused about the "red and > blue light for your plants" >   > > as those two colors are on opposite ends > of the Kelvin Scale with >   > > reds and ambers in the lower numbers and > greens and blues in the >   > > higher >   > numbers. I >   > > think this is why you would want a > mid-range (5000K to 6500K) bulb >   > > as those are generally considered "full > spectrum" or "daylight" >   > > bulbs. Here's a color picture of the > Kelvin Scale, >   > > http://www.bltdirec >   <http://www.bltdirec >   <http://www.bltdirec >   <http://www.bltdirect.com/images/colour-temperature.jpg> >   t.com/images/colour-temperature.jpg> >   t.com/images/colour-temperature.jpg> >   t.com/images/colour-temperature.jpg >   > <http://www.bltdirec >   <http://www.bltdirec >   <http://www.bltdirec >   <http://www.bltdirect.com/images/colour-temperature.jpg> >   t.com/images/colour-temperature.jpg> >   t.com/images/colour-temperature.jpg> >   t.com/images/colour-temperature.jpg> >   > > <http://www.bltdirec >   <http://www.bltdirec >   <http://www.bltdirec >   <http://www.bltdirect.com/images/colour-temperature.jpg> >   t.com/images/colour-temperature.jpg> >   t.com/images/colour-temperature.jpg> >   t.com/images/colour-temperature.jpg >   > <http://www.bltdirec >   <http://www.bltdirec >   <http://www.bltdirec >   <http://www.bltdirect.com/images/colour-temperature.jpg> >   t.com/images/colour-temperature.jpg> >   t.com/images/colour-temperature.jpg> >   t.com/images/colour-temperature.jpg>> and you > can >   > > visually >   > > see that the 5000K to 6500K range is all > about the same "color". I >   > > think this is also why Actinic bulbs are > usually higher and closer >   > > to the >   > 10000K >   > > range and up... apparently, the Kelvin > lighting scale can go up to >   > 20,000K >   > > (according to this article about Reef > Tanks http://nh.craigslis >   > > <http://nh.craigslis >   <http://nh.craigslis <http://nh.craigslist.org/for/1423072406.html> >   t.org/for/1423072406.html> > t.org/for/1423072406.html> >   t.org/for/1423072406.html >   > <http://nh.craigslis <http://nh.craigslis >   <http://nh.craigslis <http://nh.craigslist.org/for/1423072406.html> >   t.org/for/1423072406.html> > t.org/for/1423072406.html> >   t.org/for/1423072406.html> >   > > <http://nh.craigslis <http://nh.craigslis >   <http://nh.craigslis <http://nh.craigslist.org/for/1423072406.html> >   t.org/for/1423072406.html> > t.org/for/1423072406.html> >   t.org/for/1423072406.html >   > <http://nh.craigslis <http://nh.craigslis >   <http://nh.craigslis <http://nh.craigslist.org/for/1423072406.html> >   t.org/for/1423072406.html> > t.org/for/1423072406.html> >   t.org/for/1423072406.html>> on, of all > places, >   > > Craigslist). >   > > Here is the page that that the above photo > link came from and it has >   > > a chart that also explains things a little > more also and talks about >   > > the >   > CRI, yet >   > > another lighting term (Color Rendition > Index). >   > > http://www.bltdirec >   <http://www.bltdirec <http://www.bltdirec >   <http://www.bltdirect.com/lampColourTemperatures.php> >   t.com/lampColourTemperatures.php> >   t.com/lampColourTemperatures.php> >   t.com/lampColourTemperatures.php >   > <http://www.bltdirec <http://www.bltdirec >   <http://www.bltdirec <http://www.bltdirect.com/lampColourTemperatures.php> >   t.com/lampColourTemperatures.php> >   t.com/lampColourTemperatures.php> >   t.com/lampColourTemperatures.php> >   > > <http://www.bltdirec >   <http://www.bltdirec <http://www.bltdirec >   <http://www.bltdirect.com/lampColourTemperatures.php> >   t.com/lampColourTemperatures.php> >   t.com/lampColourTemperatures.php> >   t.com/lampColourTemperatures.php >   > <http://www.bltdirec <http://www.bltdirec >   <http://www.bltdirec <http://www.bltdirect.com/lampColourTemperatures.php> >   t.com/lampColourTemperatures.php> >   t.com/lampColourTemperatures.php> >   t.com/lampColourTemperatures.php>> >   > > >   > > Lenny Vasbinder >   > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny. >   <http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> blogspot.com> >   blogspot.com> blogspot.com >   > <http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny. >   <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > blogspot.com> blogspot.com> blogspot.com> >   <http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny. >   <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > blogspot.com> blogspot.com> blogspot.com >   > <http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny. >   <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > blogspot.com> blogspot.com> blogspot.com>> >   > > (Links to any articles referenced in above > reply are listed on the >   > > right side, alphabetically under Labels > and also under Archives by >   > > Year, >   > Month) >   > > >   > > -----Original Message----- >   > > From: AquaticLife@ > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> >   yahoogroups.com >   > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> >   > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> >   > > [mailto:AquaticLife@ > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> >   yahoogroups.com >   > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> >   > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On Behalf Of > Amber Berglund >   > > Sent: Tuesday, November 10, 2009 4:22 PM >   > > To: AquaticLife@ > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> >   > > yahoogroups.com >   > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> >   > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> >   > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: > wisteria/lighting previous >   > > question/response revisited >   > > >   > > Another thing to consider is one light > company's 6500 kelvin rating >   > > may not be identical to another light bulb > from a different company >   > > that's rated the same. The important thing > to look at is the color >   > > chart they show on the boxes, you want > more red and blue light for >   > > your plants, green is not useful or > harmful as the plants reflect >   > > the light back (makes them appear more > green but does nothing else >   > > for them). The kelvin rating is based on > our eyes and how they >   > > perceive color, so each company doesn't > have to be identical, >   > > perhaps some day they will have a > universal way to measure light >   > > spectrums on bulbs that is much less > confusing. >   > > >   > > Amber >   > > >   > > Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: >   > > > >   > > > OK. So you have a total of 80 watts > right now, which is just over >   > > > 1 WPG, which means you only have > enough lighting for low-light, >   > > > easy to grow plants. See my blog > article "Planted Tank: So You >   > > > Want A Planted Tank" for links to > lists of low-light, easy to grow >   > > > plants that will do OK in your tank. > You should replace those >   > > > tubes at >   least yearly... >   > > > although some say every six months. > As far as I know, a 40W bulb >   > > > is the highest wattage made for this > type of bulb/fixture right >   > > > now but you can increase your > lighting >   > > > (lumens) and K (Kelvin) rating. See > below. >   > > > >   > > > NOTE - below links are for > example/informational purposes only, as >   > > > I know nothing about the sites. > God... did I just say that? Do I >   > > > really have to add disclaimers to my > posts now? LOL Just laughing >   > > > at >   myself. >   > > > LOL >   > > > >   > > > This may be your Sylvania bulb... >   > > > http://www.lightbul >   <http://www.lightbul >   <http://www.lightbul >   <http://www.lightbulbemporium.com/proddetail.asp?prod=F40/EX50> >   bemporium.com/proddetail.asp?prod=F40/EX50> >   bemporium.com/proddetail.asp?prod=F40/EX50> >   bemporium.com/proddetail.asp?prod=F40/EX50 >   > <http://www.lightbul >   <http://www.lightbul >   <http://www.lightbul >   <http://www.lightbulbemporium.com/proddetail.asp?prod=F40/EX50> >   bemporium.com/proddetail.asp?prod=F40/EX50> >   bemporium.com/proddetail.asp?prod=F40/EX50> >   bemporium.com/proddetail.asp?prod=F40/EX50> >   > > <http://www.lightbul >   <http://www.lightbul >   <http://www.lightbul >   <http://www.lightbulbemporium.com/proddetail.asp?prod=F40/EX50> >   bemporium.com/proddetail.asp?prod=F40/EX50> >   bemporium.com/proddetail.asp?prod=F40/EX50> >   bemporium.com/proddetail.asp?prod=F40/EX50 >   > <http://www.lightbul >   <http://www.lightbul >   <http://www.lightbul >   <http://www.lightbulbemporium.com/proddetail.asp?prod=F40/EX50> >   bemporium.com/proddetail.asp?prod=F40/EX50> >   bemporium.com/proddetail.asp?prod=F40/EX50> >   bemporium.com/proddetail.asp?prod=F40/EX50>> >   > > > <http://www.lightbul >   <http://www.lightbul >   <http://www.lightbul >   <http://www.lightbulbemporium.com/proddetail.asp?prod=F40/EX50> >   bemporium.com/proddetail.asp?prod=F40/EX50> >   bemporium.com/proddetail.asp?prod=F40/EX50> >   bemporium.com/proddetail.asp?prod=F40/EX50 >   > <http://www.lightbul >   <http://www.lightbul >   <http://www.lightbul >   <http://www.lightbulbemporium.com/proddetail.asp?prod=F40/EX50> >   bemporium.com/proddetail.asp?prod=F40/EX50> >   bemporium.com/proddetail.asp?prod=F40/EX50> >   bemporium.com/proddetail.asp?prod=F40/EX50> >   > > <http://www.lightbul >   <http://www.lightbul >   <http://www.lightbul >   <http://www.lightbulbemporium.com/proddetail.asp?prod=F40/EX50> >   bemporium.com/proddetail.asp?prod=F40/EX50> >   bemporium.com/proddetail.asp?prod=F40/EX50> >   bemporium.com/proddetail.asp?prod=F40/EX50 >   > <http://www.lightbul >   <http://www.lightbul >   <http://www.lightbul >   <http://www.lightbulbemporium.com/proddetail.asp?prod=F40/EX50> >   bemporium.com/proddetail.asp?prod=F40/EX50> >   bemporium.com/proddetail.asp?prod=F40/EX50> >   > bemporium.com/proddetail.asp?prod=F40/EX50>>> and >   > if >   > > > it is, then it's the same ratings as > the specs in the T-10 bulb >   > > > that I copy/pasted below, which is a > pretty good bulb with higher >   > > > lumens and the higher K rating, > although not a 6500K rated bulb. >   > > > At the bottom of this page, there was > a link to this bulb... >   > > > >   > > >   > http://www.lightbul >   <http://www.lightbul >   <http://www.lightbul >   <http://www.lightbulbemporium.com/maxlite_51204_ml_f40t10_850_rscg.asp> >   > bemporium.com/maxlite_51204_ml_f40t10_850_rscg.asp> >   > bemporium.com/maxlite_51204_ml_f40t10_850_rscg.asp> >   bemporium.com/maxlite_51204_ml_f40t10_850_rscg.asp >   > <http://www.lightbul >   <http://www.lightbul >   <http://www.lightbul >   <http://www.lightbulbemporium.com/maxlite_51204_ml_f40t10_850_rscg.asp> >   > bemporium.com/maxlite_51204_ml_f40t10_850_rscg.asp> >   > bemporium.com/maxlite_51204_ml_f40t10_850_rscg.asp> >   bemporium.com/maxlite_51204_ml_f40t10_850_rscg.asp >   > > >   > > >   > <http://www.lightbul >   <http://www.lightbul >   <http://www.lightbul >   <http://www.lightbulbemporium.com/maxlite_51204_ml_f40t10_850_rscg.asp> >   > bemporium.com/maxlite_51204_ml_f40t10_850_rscg.asp> >   > bemporium.com/maxlite_51204_ml_f40t10_850_rscg.asp> >   bemporium.com/maxlite_51204_ml_f40t10_850_rscg.asp >   > <http://www.lightbul >   <http://www.lightbul >   <http://www.lightbul >   <http://www.lightbulbemporium.com/maxlite_51204_ml_f40t10_850_rscg.asp> >   > bemporium.com/maxlite_51204_ml_f40t10_850_rscg.asp> >   > bemporium.com/maxlite_51204_ml_f40t10_850_rscg.asp> >   bemporium.com/maxlite_51204_ml_f40t10_850_rscg.asp >   > >> >   > > > >   > > >   > <http://www.lightbul >   <http://www.lightbul >   <http://www.lightbul >   <http://www.lightbulbemporium.com/maxlite_51204_ml_f40t10_850_rscg.asp> >   > bemporium.com/maxlite_51204_ml_f40t10_850_rscg.asp> >   > bemporium.com/maxlite_51204_ml_f40t10_850_rscg.asp> >   bemporium.com/maxlite_51204_ml_f40t10_850_rscg.asp >   > <http://www.lightbul >   <http://www.lightbul >   <http://www.lightbul >   <http://www.lightbulbemporium.com/maxlite_51204_ml_f40t10_850_rscg.asp> >   > bemporium.com/maxlite_51204_ml_f40t10_850_rscg.asp> >   > bemporium.com/maxlite_51204_ml_f40t10_850_rscg.asp> >   bemporium.com/maxlite_51204_ml_f40t10_850_rscg.asp >   > > >   > > >   > <http://www.lightbul >   <http://www.lightbul >   <http://www.lightbul >   <http://www.lightbulbemporium.com/maxlite_51204_ml_f40t10_850_rscg.asp> >   > bemporium.com/maxlite_51204_ml_f40t10_850_rscg.asp> >   > bemporium.com/maxlite_51204_ml_f40t10_850_rscg.asp> >   bemporium.com/maxlite_51204_ml_f40t10_850_rscg.asp >   > <http://www.lightbul >   <http://www.lightbul >   <http://www.lightbul >   <http://www.lightbulbemporium.com/maxlite_51204_ml_f40t10_850_rscg.asp> >   > bemporium.com/maxlite_51204_ml_f40t10_850_rscg.asp> >   > bemporium.com/maxlite_51204_ml_f40t10_850_rscg.asp> >   bemporium.com/maxlite_51204_ml_f40t10_850_rscg.asp >   > >> >   > > > > >   > > > which >   > > > has an even higher lumen rating of > 3700, although not much higher >   > > > than the 3550 rating but every little > bit helps especially since >   > > > the MaxLite bulb was a lower price > than the Sylvania bulb. >   > > > >   > > > As you will see on this page >   > > > >   > > >   > http://www.lightbul >   <http://www.lightbul >   <http://www.lightbul >   <http://www.lightbulbsdirect.com/Merchant2/merchant.mvc?page=001/CTGY/F> >   > bsdirect.com/Merchant2/merchant.mvc?page=001/CTGY/F> >   > bsdirect.com/Merchant2/merchant.mvc?page=001/CTGY/F> >   bsdirect.com/Merchant2/merchant.mvc?page=001/CTGY/F >   > <http://www.lightbul >   <http://www.lightbul >   <http://www.lightbul >   <http://www.lightbulbsdirect.com/Merchant2/merchant.mvc?page=001/CTGY/> >   > bsdirect.com/Merchant2/merchant.mvc?page=001/CTGY/> >   > bsdirect.com/Merchant2/merchant.mvc?page=001/CTGY/> >   bsdirect.com/Merchant2/merchant.mvc?page=001/CTGY/ >   > F> >   > > >   > <http://www.lightbul >   <http://www.lightbul >   <http://www.lightbul >   <http://www.lightbulbsdirect.com/Merchant2/merchant.mvc?page=001/CTGY/> >   > bsdirect.com/Merchant2/merchant.mvc?page=001/CTGY/> >   > bsdirect.com/Merchant2/merchant.mvc?page=001/CTGY/> >   bsdirect.com/Merchant2/merchant.mvc?page=001/CTGY/ >   > F >   > <http://www.lightbul >   <http://www.lightbul >   <http://www.lightbul >   <http://www.lightbulbsdirect.com/Merchant2/merchant.mvc?page=001/CTGY/> >   > bsdirect.com/Merchant2/merchant.mvc?page=001/CTGY/> >   > bsdirect.com/Merchant2/merchant.mvc?page=001/CTGY/> >   bsdirect.com/Merchant2/merchant.mvc?page=001/CTGY/ >   > F>> >   > > > S+Fluo >   > > > >   > > >   > <http://www.lightbul >   <http://www.lightbul >   <http://www.lightbul >   <http://www.lightbulbsdirect.com/Merchant2/merchant.mvc?page=001/CTGY/> >   > bsdirect.com/Merchant2/merchant.mvc?page=001/CTGY/> >   > bsdirect.com/Merchant2/merchant.mvc?page=001/CTGY/> >   bsdirect.com/Merchant2/merchant.mvc?page=001/CTGY/ >   > <http://www.lightbul >   <http://www.lightbul >   <http://www.lightbul >   <http://www.lightbulbsdirect.com/Merchant2/merchant.mvc?page=001/CTGY/> >   > bsdirect.com/Merchant2/merchant.mvc?page=001/CTGY/> >   > bsdirect.com/Merchant2/merchant.mvc?page=001/CTGY/> >   bsdirect.com/Merchant2/merchant.mvc?page=001/CTGY/ >   > > >   > > >   > <http://www.lightbul >   <http://www.lightbul >   <http://www.lightbul >   <http://www.lightbulbsdirect.com/Merchant2/merchant.mvc?page=001/CTGY/> >   > bsdirect.com/Merchant2/merchant.mvc?page=001/CTGY/> >   > bsdirect.com/Merchant2/merchant.mvc?page=001/CTGY/> >   bsdirect.com/Merchant2/merchant.mvc?page=001/CTGY/ >   > <http://www.lightbul >   <http://www.lightbul >   <http://www.lightbul >   <http://www.lightbulbsdirect.com/Merchant2/merchant.mvc?page=001/CTGY/> >   > bsdirect.com/Merchant2/merchant.mvc?page=001/CTGY/> >   > bsdirect.com/Merchant2/merchant.mvc?page=001/CTGY/> >   bsdirect.com/Merchant2/merchant.mvc?page=001/CTGY/ >   > >> >   > > > FS+Fluo> >   > > > rescent >   > > > >   > > > The second bulb down would be similar > to yours, except we do not >   > > > know the lumen or color spectrum > rating on your bulb, unless that >   > > > link I gave above is actually your > bulb and then it would be the >   > > > same as this one. The specs on it > are: >   > > > >   > > > T-10 Fluorescent >   > > > 40 Watts >   > > > Length: 48" >   > > > Medium Bi-Pin Base >   > > > Color: 5000K Temperature >   > > > Initial Lumens: 3550 >   > > > CRI: 84 >   > > > Average Life: 20,000 Hours >   > > > >   > > > The Color spectrum of 5000K (Kelvin) > is OK but 6500K would be much >   > > better. >   > > > The Lumens of 3550 is the actual > amount of *light* >   > > > >   > > > The next bulb down from that one is a > T-12, which will also fit in >   > > > your fixture but they are bigger > diameter bulbs and this one >   > > > actually puts out less light > (lumens). Here are the specs: >   > > > >   > > > T-12 Fluorescent >   > > > 40 Watts >   > > > Length: 48" >   > > > Base: Medium Bi-Pin Base >   > > > Initial Lumens: 2200 >   > > > Average Life: 20,000 Hours >   > > > Color Temperature: 5000K >   > > > CRI: 92 >   > > > >   > > > It has the same Color spectrum but > only 2200 lumens so the above >   > > > T-10 bulb has around 50% more lumens > (light) coming out of it. >   > > > >   > > > Now, if you scroll down to the second > from the bottom on the page, >   > > > you'll see the Verilux Instant-Sun > T-12 bulb which has a higher >   > > > Kelvin rating but it doesn't list the > lumens so this needs to be >   > > > checked out further. While the higher > K rating is good, if it goes >   > > > back down to only 2200 lumens, > instead of the 3550 lumens of the >   > > > first referenced bulb above, then I > would probably go with the >   > > > 3550 lumens, 5000K bulb over the > 6280K bulb if the lumens were a >   > > > LOT >   less. >   > > > >   > > > (START SNIP) >   > > > Engineered to reproduce all the > colors and balance of natural >   > > > light, VeriluxR full spectrum > fluorescent tubes feature Trucolite >   > > > Phosphor TechnologyT which includes > the use of a stable, custom >   > > > blend of earth phosphors that create > bright, balanced full >   > > > spectrum >   light. >   > > > T-12 Fluorescent >   > > > 40 Watts >   > > > Length: 48" >   > > > Color Temperature: 6280K >   > > > CRI: 94 >   > > > Medium Bi-Pin Base >   > > > (END SNIP) >   > > > >   > > > So, as you can see, there's a few > things to look for when shopping >   > > > for new replacement bulbs. Look for > the 5000K to 6500K bulbs with >   > > > the higher lumen rating for the > dollar and you should be good. >   > > > Note that a 3550 or 3700 lumen bulb > will put out nearly twice as >   > > > much light as a 2000 lumen bulb so it > can be easy to increase your >   > > > lighting without increasing the > wattage. DO NOT try to use HO or >   > > > VHO bulbs... which look similar but > have much higher wattage, well >   > > > over the 40W bulbs you now have. > These other HO and VHO bulbs have >   > > > different pin arrangements so they > will not fit in your fixture >   > > > anyhow but I just wanted to save you > a trip. >   > > > >   > > > Last but not least, if you're handy, > you could even take the bulbs >   > > > out of your fixtures and line the > insides of your fixtures with >   > > > nice and crisp and flat aluminum foil > (shiny side exposed) which >   > > > will also help. Using double stick > tape and then carefully >   > > > applying the foil so it does not > wrinkle too much will work >   > > > well... especially if the inside of > your fixture is black. A white >   > > > reflector is good but a mirrored > reflector, like that created by >   > > > the shiny side of foil, is MUCH > better than a black reflector. >   > > > Most black fixtures do at least have > white reflector areas. >   > > > >   > > > Lenny Vasbinder >   > > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny. > <http://GoldLenny. >   <http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> blogspot.com> >   blogspot.com> blogspot.com >   > <http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny. >   <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > blogspot.com> blogspot.com> blogspot.com> >   > > <http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny. > <http://GoldLenny. >   <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > blogspot.com> blogspot.com> blogspot.com >   <http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny. >   <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > blogspot.com> blogspot.com> blogspot.com>> >   > > > <http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny. > <http://GoldLenny. >   <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > blogspot.com> blogspot.com> blogspot.com >   <http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny. >   <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > blogspot.com> blogspot.com> blogspot.com> >   > <http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny. >   <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > blogspot.com> blogspot.com> blogspot.com >   <http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny. >   <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > blogspot.com> blogspot.com> blogspot.com>>> >   > > (Links to any articles referenced in >   > > > above reply are listed on the right > side, alphabetically under >   > > > Labels and also under Archives by > Year, Month) >   > > > >   > > > -----Original Message----- >   > > > From: AquaticLife@ > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> >   yahoogroups.com >   > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> >   > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> >   > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> >   > > > [mailto:AquaticLife@ > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> >   yahoogroups.com >   > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> >   > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> >   > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On Behalf Of >   > > > erikaandnewton >   > > > Sent: Tuesday, November 10, 2009 > 10:17 AM >   > > > To: AquaticLife@ > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> >   yahoogroups.com >   > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> >   > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> >   > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> >   > > > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: > wisteria/lighting previous >   > > > question/response revisited >   > > > >   > > > << When you say "two strips" do > you have two 4' long two-bulb >   > > > fixtures already or something > else?>> >   > > > >   > > > i have two 4' single bulb strip > lights. >   > > > >   > > > >> What kind of lighting do you > currently have? Look at the bulbs >   > > > >> and there should be some > kind of writing on one of the ends. >   > > > >> Give us that info if you > cannot decipher it yourself.<< >   > > > >   > > > one bulb is a f40 t10 >   > > > the other one is a sylvania daylight > bulb also f40 >   > > > >   > > > >> It's probably 21" tall, > since a common measurement for a 75G is >   > > > >> 48"x18"x21" Tall.>> >   > > > >   > > > it is 21 inches tall >   > > > >   > > > erika wilmington de usa > >   [Non-text portions of this message have been > removed] > >   [Non-text portions of this message have been > removed] > >   ------------------------------------ > >   Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it > when replying, Thank You. >   > 74/`7.88.><((((:>.74/`7.88.74/`7.8><((((:> > 8.74/`7.8. , .74/`7..><((((:> >   PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT > that is NOT important to >   the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the > original message MODIFY the SUBJECT >   LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" > <- >   > <:((((><.74/`7.88.74/`7.8<:((((><8.74/`7.8. > , .74/`7..<:((((><74/`7.88. >   We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this > matter. > >   If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead > of unsubscribing, you >   can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit > My Membership" on the >   home page. > >   Or e-mail aquaticlife- > <mailto:aquaticlife-digest%40yahoogroups.com> >   digest@yahoogroups.com > to receive the digest, which includes up to 25 posts >   at a time in a single email > >   Or email aquaticlife- > <mailto:aquaticlife-nomail%40yahoogroups.com> >   nomail@yahoogroups.com > for the No E-Mail option where you will still be able >   to read messages on the group and post replies. > >   Or email aquaticlife- > <mailto:aquaticlife-normal%40yahoogroups.com> >   normal@yahoogroups.com > to receive individual e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links > >   [Non-text portions of this message have been > removed] > >   ------------------------------------ > >   Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it > when replying, Thank You. >   > 74/`7.88.><((((:>.74/`7.88.74/`7.8><((((:> > 8.74/`7.8. , .74/`7..><((((:> >   PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT > that is NOT important to >   the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the > original message MODIFY the SUBJECT >   LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" > <- >   > <:((((><.74/`7.88.74/`7.8<:((((><8.74/`7.8. > , .74/`7..<:((((><74/`7.88. >   We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this > matter. > >   If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead > of unsubscribing, you >   can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit > My Membership" on the >   home page. > >   Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com > to receive the digest, which >   includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email > >   Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com > for the No E-Mail option where >   you will still be able to read messages on the group > and post replies. > >   Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com > to receive individual >   e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links > > > >   > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > ------------------------------------ > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when > replying, Thank You. > ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> > ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> > PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is > NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of > the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new > subject (was re: old subject)" <- > <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. > , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. > > If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of > unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by > clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the home page.  > > Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com > to receive the digest, which includes up to 25 posts at a > time in a single email > > Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com > for the No E-Mail option where you will still be able to > read messages on the group and post replies. > > Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com > to receive individual e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links > > >     AquaticLife-fullfeatured@yahoogroups.com > > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 44459	From: bill 1433	Date: 11/12/2009
Subject: Re: wisteria/lighting previous question/response revisited

Yes, Thank you Eric but the problem is or are the "T" value. Finding a tube to give more light and still remain in the 20 watt stall that the ballast is rated at is what is giving me "fits" Bill --- On Thu, 11/12/09, Rev. Eric Roberts <woad@...> wrote: > From: Rev. Eric Roberts <woad@...> > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: wisteria/lighting previous question/response revisited > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Date: Thursday, November 12, 2009, 11:59 AM > If it is a standard hood...any of the > pet stores and even the larger hardware stores like Lowes > should carry them.  I have never had a problem finding > them.  You can also order online...  Another good > source would be a lighting/electrical store. > > Eric > > > From: bill 1433 > Sent: Thursday, November 12, 2009 8:59 AM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: wisteria/lighting previous > question/response revisited > > >   > Yes Len, > > But its finding that size tube with more of anything that's > the problem. > > Bill > > --- On Wed, 11/11/09, Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@...> > wrote: > > > From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@...> > > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: wisteria/lighting > previous question/response revisited > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > Date: Wednesday, November 11, 2009, 5:22 PM > > Well, if you only have 17W, then you > > could definitely do better with the > > 20W, higher lumen, better K rating bulbs that I > > mentioned.  Considering the > > lumen ratings of fluorescent bulbs I've looked at, > your 17W > > bulbs might only > > have 500-700 lumens where the BEST 20W bulb (below) > has > > 1075 lumens so you > > could possibly increase your lighting by 50% to 100% > just > > by changing to > > that bulb.  At least, with that bulb, you'll be > in the > > low-light range for > > plants on the 20G but the 29G will need some > work.  > > > > Of course, you should find out what the lumens and K > > ratings are on the > > bulbs you have so you'll know if you are getting a > small > > jump or a BIG jump > > in lighting just by changing your bulbs.  Check > your > > local WalMart for > > bulbs.  My nearby WalMart SuperCenter has a > really big > > assortment of > > fluorescent tubes and they were cheaper than the Home > > Depot. > > > > Something else I'm thinking about for you is going > with 18" > > light-sticks on > > each end of your 29G tank or front or back (back would > hide > > it best but you > > decide your best aesthetics) and you'd have to make a > DIY > > reflector for it > > (white poster board and scotch tape would work) and > that > > would get more > > lighting down to the bottom level plants in the 29G. > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > > (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are > listed > > on the right > > side, alphabetically under Labels and also under > Archives > > by Year, Month) > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] > > On > > Behalf Of bill 1433 > > Sent: Wednesday, November 11, 2009 3:42 PM > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: wisteria/lighting > previous > > question/response > > revisited > > > > It is what it is type of thing Len.  Site says > one > > thing but stamped or > > printed right on the tube is at 17 watts. > > > > Bill > > > > --- On Wed, 11/11/09, Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@...> > > wrote: > > > > > From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@...> > > > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: wisteria/lighting > > previous > > > question/response revisited > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > > Date: Wednesday, November 11, 2009, 2:16 PM The > > problem might be this > > > statement in the description... > > > > > > "... Hoods include 8000ºK bulb... ...20W, > 24"..." > > > > > > That's getting into the higher green/blue Kelvin > > range... > > > closer to the > > > 10,000K actinic type bulbs... than the 5000K to > 6500K > > "Daylight" bulbs > > > that provide full spectrum lighting.  It's > also only > > a 20W bulb > > > (according to the DFS site, although you stated > it was > > only 17W so > > > double check this) so it's only 1WPG on the 20G > and > > only 0.69WPG on > > > the 29G.  Of course, if the bulb puts out a > LOT more > > lumens (you would > > > have to do more checking up on the bulb to find > this), > > that would help > > > a little but not much.  I think you need at > least > > 1WPG to have success > > > with low-light plants, although floating plants > like > > Anacharis, > > > Hornwort, Duckweed, etc., would be up close to > the > > light and benefit > > > from CO2 from the air and would do OK with your > > lighting... but then > > > they would also block out the lighting to the > rest of > > the tank. > > > > > > I don't see a lot of options, as far as T-8 bulbs > are > > concerned for > > > this size fixture but I see a few different > T-12's... > > such as... > > > > > > (My rating is: GOOD - but see BETTER and BEST > options > > below... at > > > least as far as the bulbs on this site are > concerned) > > > > > > http://www.servicelighting.com/Sylvania-22119-F20T12-DSGN50-T12-Straig > > > ht-Lin > > > ear-Fluorescent-Light-Bulb > > > > > > Light Output:  880 lumens > > > Refers to the literal measure of the light-output > of a > > particular > > > light bulb, measured in the number of lumens. > > > > > > Energy Used:  20 watts > > > "Watts" is the term applied to the amount of > energy > > required and used > > > by a particular light bulb. It is an > international > > system unit of > > > power equal to one joule per second. Contrary to > > popular belief, the > > > wattage of a bulb does not directly measure the > > brightness; the > > > "lumens" of a light is what defines the actual > light > > output. > > >  > > > Average Lifetime:  9,000 hours > > > This refers to an average lifetime rating based > on > > large quantities in > > > test groups. This testing takes into account > usage of > > 3 hours per > > > start for fluorescent lamps and 10 hours per > start for > > HID lamps. > > >  > > > Bulb Type:  T12 > > > The "Bulb Type" is typically a combination of > the > > style of bulb as > > > well as the width of the bulb. Usually, the > first > > couple letters will > > > indicate the type; "G" would indicate "Globe", > "PAR" > > would indicate > > > "Parabolic Reflector"... The numbers indicate > the > > diameter of the > > > light bulb in eighths of an inch; a "G40" would > be a > > "Globe" style > > > that is "5 inches" in diameter. > > > > > >  > > > Base Type:  Medium Bi-Pin > > > The "Base" of a light bulb is the part that > either > > screws or snaps > > > into a receptacle. Base Type terminology may > indicate > > common > > > descriptive words like "Medium" or "Candelabra", > or > > may even contain > > > numeric codes that signify size and variety, > like > > "E26" or "2GX13". > > >  > > > Color Temperature:  5,000K > > > Correlated Color Temperature (CCT) is a > specification > > of the color > > > appearance of a lamp, relating its color to that > of a > > reference source > > > heated to a particular temperature, measured in > > degrees Kelvin (K). It > > > generally measures the "warmth" or "coolness" of > light > > source > > > appearance. > > > > > > CRI:  90 > > > CRI refers to the "Color Rendering Index" of a > light > > bulb. > > > CRI measures a > > > light source and grades its ability to render > the > > color of objects > > > "correctly," as compared with a reference source > with > > comparable color > > > temperature. 100 is perfect rendering. > > >  > > > Length:  24 inches > > > > > > > > > (BETTER - slightly higher lumens and higher > 6500K > > rating) > > > > > > http://www.servicelighting.com/Westinghouse-36516-F20T12-FS-T12-Straig > > > ht-Lin > > > ear-Fluorescent-Light-Bulb > > > > > > Light Output:  900 lumens > > > Energy Used:  20 watts > > > Average Lifetime:  10,000 hours > > > Bulb Type:  T12 > > > Base Type:  Medium Bi-Pin > > > Color Temperature:  6,500K > > > CRI:  90 > > > Length:  24 inches > > > > > > > > > > > > (BEST, of these three - around 20% higher lumens > and > > good 6,500K > > > rating, although it does have a lower CRI > rating.. but > > still > > > passing) > > > > > > http://www.servicelighting.com/Sylvania-22083-F20T12-D-T12-Straight-Li > > > near-F > > > luorescent-Light-Bulb > > > > > > Light Output:  1,075 lumens > > > Energy Used:  20 watts > > > Average Lifetime:  9,000 hours > > > Bulb Type:  T12 > > > Base Type:  Medium Bi-Pin > > > Color Temperature:  6,500K > > > CRI:  76 > > > Length:  24 inches > > > > > > Compare the above three to what is sold as a > > plant/aquarium light by > > > the same company, which has a lower lumens, MUCH > lower > > CRI rating and > > > does not list the K rating other than to say > "Plant" > > which is a > > > subjective rating established by the > manufacturer. > > > > > > (WORST) > > > > > > http://www.servicelighting.com/Westinghouse-36411-F20T12-PL-T12-Straig > > > ht-Lin > > > ear-Fluorescent-Light-Bulb > > > > > > Light Output:  700 lumens (over 30% less > lighting > > than the 1,075 > > > lumens bulb > > > above) > > > Energy Used:  20 watts > > > Average Lifetime:  10,000 hours > > > Bulb Type:  T12 > > > Base Type:  Medium Bi-Pin > > > Color:  Plant > > > CRI:  61 > > > Length:  24 inches > > > > > > If any of the above have much better lumens than > your > > current > > > lighting... > > > and they all have better K ratings, then any of > them > > would be better > > > for you... but you would still be stuck with only > 20 > > watts but it's > > > the LUMENS and K rating that count more than > watts. > > You need to find > > > out the lumens on your bulb.  Try to find it > on the > > DFS site and let > > > us know. > > > > > > You should look at the AHSupply.com place for a > > retrofit kit so you > > > can use CFL's in your current hood.  That > would > > probably be your least > > > expensive option.  I know you don't like > electricity > > but I'm sure you > > > know someone that could do this for you... on > the > > cheap... or over a > > > 6-pack. > > > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to > > any articles > > > referenced in above reply are listed on the > right > > side, alphabetically > > > under Labels and also under Archives by Year, > Month) > > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] > > > On > > > Behalf Of bill 1433 > > > Sent: Wednesday, November 11, 2009 9:33 AM > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: wisteria/lighting > > previous > > > question/response > > > revisited > > > > > > Hi \\Steve// > > > > > > At this point, and also to refresh your mind, > and > > anyone > > > else on the group > > > that may have interest.  This all got > started with > > my > > > search for a tube that > > > would allow me more light output from an All > Glass > > Plastic > > > hood and light. > > > This unit comes with a "color type tube at 17 > watts > > that is > > > only 24 inches > > > long.  This is for a 20/29-gallon > tank.  I was > > > stupid enough to buy two of > > > them, one for each tank.  For further > inspection > > here > > > is the light: > > > > > > http://www.drsfostersmith.com/product/prod_display.cfm?pcatid=13447 > > > > > > For those that would like to aggravate > themselves > > further, > > > I can also state > > > that these hoods are very conducive to growing > Black > > > Algae! > > > > > > Summoning up, I should have only purchased an > > All-Glass > > > cover and then > > > probably a double tube light of sufficient > wattage to > > bring > > > me up to the > > > recommended 2 or 3 watts per gallon. > > > > > > Ya live and learn, > > > > > > Bill > > > > > > > > > --- On Tue, 11/10/09, Steve Szabo <steve@...> > > > wrote: > > > > > > > From: Steve Szabo <steve@...> > > > > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: > wisteria/lighting > > > previous > > > > question/response revisited > > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > > > Date: Tuesday, November 10, 2009, 11:50 PM > Bill, > > you > > > got it right! The > > > > T numbers represent the diameter of the bulb > in > > 1/8" > > > increments. A T4 > > > > is a bulb 1/2" in diameter,  T5 is > 5/8", t8 is > > 1" and > > > a t12 is 1 1/2". > > > > As I recall, the F is the wattage of the > bulb. > > > > > > > > Lumens, not usually stated on the bulb is > the > > actual > > > amount of light > > > > coming from the bulb. It really does not > have > > anything > > > to do with > > > > watts, though more watts will give you more > > lumens, > > > but, also the > > > > phosphors used in the bulb affect the amount > of > > lumen > > > output. Lumens > > > > and lux are often used interchangeably, but > they > > are > > > really different > > > > measurements. Lux is the measure of > illumination > > over > > > a given area. It > > > > may actually be more important to aquarists > > raising > > > plants than the > > > > lumen output. Lux is what is measured by a > light > > > meter, for anyone who > > > > happens to know what they are--not often > seen > > with > > > today's cameras and > > > > photographers. > > > > > > > > Color temperature is important. Average > daylight > > > (except may in > > > > Amber's area where they have 6 months of > > darkness) has > > > a color > > > > temperature of 5500-6000. > > > > An overcast day can have a color temperature > of > > 6500. > > > As mentioned > > > > earlier, plants need light in two color > > spectrums, > > > and, actually they > > > > are rather narrow spans of wavelengths they > > benefit > > > from. > > > > > > > > I thought I had a bookmark explaining this, > but > > I > > > can't find it > > > > quickly (over 400K of bookmarks, and things > have > > a > > > tendency to get > > > > lost), however, some judicial Googling will > gain > > you > > > the information. > > > > > > > > \\Steve// > > > > > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > > > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] > > > > On > > > > Behalf Of bill 1433 > > > > Sent: Tuesday, November 10, 2009 10:20 PM > > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: > wisteria/lighting > > > previous > > > > question/response revisited > > > > > > > > Yes, Amber > > > >  > > > > It was I, looking for the original > information > > and > > > also looked back on > > > > \\Steve//'s post at group to try and find. > Ray > > had > > > mentioned all this > > > > the other day saying that he thought the > posting > > came > > > from \\Steve//. > > > >  > > > > I was not successful in my search.  > Also, for me > > the > > > most important > > > > part was a link to a chart which showed you > > exactly, > > > or explained > > > > exactly the "T" > > > > factor stands for.  For instance, T-4 > would be a > > tube > > > that is a half > > > > inch wide, or close to it-----------I think. > > > All > > > this is my own > > > > fault.  In my interest to acquire and > learn > > about > > > lighting,I went > > > > through and studied the applied links but > being > > > ol'bill, I never > > > > bookmarked them. > > > > Then to further > > > > compound the problem, I deleted the > original > > message > > > that it came > > > > from.  In hind-sight you could probably > chalk > > this > > > all up to felonious > > > > stupidity on my part. > > > >  > > > > Bill---where its always a good day if I > learn > > > something new! > > > > > > > > --- On Tue, 11/10/09, Amber Berglund <arberglund@...> > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > From: Amber Berglund <arberglund@...> > > > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: > wisteria/lighting > > > previous > > > > question/response revisited > > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > > > Date: Tuesday, November 10, 2009, 9:30 PM > > > > > > > > > > > > I believe it was Steve who posted a link > about > > lumens > > > months back when > > > > (I think it was maybe Bill asking) about > lighting > > for > > > planted > > > > aquariums. > > > > Plants require 2 different spectrums of > light to > > > properly produce > > > > either leaves or flowers (red is more for > flower > > > production and blue > > > > is more for growth, but for the best growing > you > > want > > > a mixture of > > > > BOTH colors). > > > > So in reality you would want a light that > appears > > more > > > brown/reddish > > > > in coloring and a blue/white coloring as > well, > > but > > > they now have bulbs > > > > that have BOTH spectrums built in (I'm sure > they > > don't > > > work as well as > > > > it would to have 2 different bulbs one > mostly red > > and > > > the other mostly > > > > blue on the color spectrum). > > > > Let me see if I still have the link > bookmarked. > > > > What I was trying to say is that Kelvin does > not > > tell > > > you what color > > > > spectrum the light REALLY is, it's actually > > measuring > > > it's light > > > > output color according to how the human > eyes > > perceive > > > it. So 6500 > > > > kelvin in general is what most plants will > > prefer > > > because that is a > > > > mixture of both red and blue spectrums (In > MOST > > bulbs) > > > unfortunately > > > > not all light bulb manufactures have to use > the > > exact > > > same chart for > > > > their colors, so they will have different > colors > > than > > > another bulb > > > > that says it's 6500 Kelvin. what you really > need > > to > > > read is the color > > > > chart on the box, not what lumens it says it > is. > > > > (still searching for link, LOL). > > > > > > > > This isn't the right link but it discusses > the > > > kelvin/lumen problems a > > > > little bit, still looking for the link that > > showed the > > > charts and what > > > > to look for in the color charts. > > > > http://www.americanaquariumproducts.com/Aquarium_Lighting.html > > > > > > > > Will post again when I find the other link > with > > chart > > > examples. > > > > > > > > Amber > > > > > > > > > > > > Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > > > > > > > > > > I think it would be false advertising > or > > > possibly > > > > mis-advertising (if they > > > > > do not know any better) if a company > lists > > their > > > bulbs > > > > as 6500K and they > > > > > aren't. The Kelvin scale, just like > Watts > > and > > > Lumens, > > > > are ALL > > > > > universal and > > > > > scientifically measurable scales BUT, > as I > > > showed > > > > below, not all 40 watt > > > > > bulbs put out the same amount of light > > (lumens) > > > or in > > > > the same color > > > > > spectrum (Kelvin rating). All 40 watt > > bulbs, > > > whether > > > > incandescent, > > > > > fluorescent, CFL, LED, Halogen, etc.... > ALL > > use > > > > only/around 40 watts of > > > > > electricity but their light output can > vary > > > > dramatically. This is why > > > > > fluorescent bulbs are so much more > > efficient > > > than > > > > incandescent bulbs and > > > > > CFL's are even more efficient... as a > 40W > > > fluorescent > > > > bulb puts out a LOT > > > > > more light (lumens) than a 40 watt > > incandescent > > > bulb > > > > and a 40W CFL > > > > > puts out > > > > > more light (lumens) than a 40W > fluorescent > > bulb. > > > This > > > > is why the OLD > > > > > "Watts > > > > > Per Gallon" rule simply does not work > any > > more. > > > > > > > > > > BUT.. if three different companies are > > selling > > > > standard T-10 fluorescent > > > > > bulbs with the same exact rating of > 40W, > > 3550 > > > lumens > > > > and 6500K > > > > > rating... all > > > > > three of those bulbs should be VERY > SIMILAR > > if > > > not > > > > identical in the > > > > > way they > > > > > appear to our eyes (subject to our own > > degree of > > > color > > > > blindness, of > > > > > course!) > > > > > > > > > > In the past, things like "soft white", > > "warm > > > white", > > > > "daylight", "plant > > > > > grow", etc., type terms were used and > are > > still > > > used > > > > but those are just > > > > > simple words (not subject to a > scientific > > scale) > > > to > > > > describe the Kelvin > > > > > rating ranges but lumens are just as > > important > > > since a > > > > bulb could have a > > > > > 6500K rating with only 2200 lumens > where > > another > > > bulb > > > > could have a 6500K > > > > > rating and 3550 or 3700 lumens and > that > > bulb > > > would put > > > > out over 50% more > > > > > light (lumens) in the same color > spectrum > > > (Kelvin > > > > rating) so it would be a > > > > > much more cost effective bulb if it > cost > > the > > > same > > > > amount or only a little > > > > > more. > > > > > > > > > > I'm slightly confused about the "red > and > > blue > > > light > > > > for your plants" as > > > > > those two colors are on opposite ends > of > > the > > > Kelvin > > > > Scale with reds and > > > > > ambers in the lower numbers and greens > and > > blues > > > in > > > > the higher numbers. I > > > > > think this is why you would want a > > mid-range > > > (5000K to > > > > 6500K) bulb as > > > > > those > > > > > are generally considered "full > spectrum" or > > > "daylight" > > > > bulbs. Here's a > > > > > color picture of the Kelvin Scale, > > > > > http://www.bltdirect.com/images/colour-temperature.jpg > > > > > > > > > <http://www.bltdirect.com/images/colour-temperature.jpg> > > > > and you can > > > > > visually > > > > > see that the 5000K to 6500K range is > all > > about > > > the > > > > same "color". I think > > > > > this is also why Actinic bulbs are > usually > > higher > > > and > > > > closer to the 10000K > > > > > range and up... apparently, the Kelvin > > lighting > > > scale > > > > can go up to 20,000K > > > > > (according to this article about Reef > Tanks > > > > > > > http://nh.craigslist.org/for/1423072406.html > > > > > <http://nh.craigslist.org/for/1423072406.html> on, > > > of > > > > all places, > > > > > Craigslist). > > > > > Here is the page that that the above > photo > > link > > > came > > > > from and it has a > > > > > chart > > > > > that also explains things a little more > also > > and > > > talks > > > > about the CRI, yet > > > > > another lighting term (Color Rendition > > Index). > > > > > http://www.bltdirect.com/lampColourTemperatures.php > > > > > <http://www.bltdirect.com/lampColourTemperatures.php> > > > > > > > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > > > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > > > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> (Links > > > to any articles referenced in > > > > > above reply are > > > > listed on the right > > > > > side, alphabetically under Labels and > also > > under > > > > Archives by Year, Month) > > > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > > > > > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > > > > > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On > > > Behalf Of Amber Berglund > > > > > Sent: Tuesday, November 10, 2009 4:22 > PM > > > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: > > wisteria/lighting > > > > previous > > > > > question/response > > > > > revisited > > > > > > > > > > Another thing to consider is one light > > company's > > > 6500 > > > > kelvin rating > > > > > may not > > > > > be identical to another light bulb from > a > > > different > > > > company that's > > > > > rated the > > > > > same. The important thing to look at is > the > > > color > > > > chart they show on the > > > > > boxes, you want more red and blue light > for > > your > > > > plants, green is not > > > > > useful > > > > > or harmful as the plants reflect the > light > > back > > > (makes > > > > them appear more > > > > > green but does nothing else for them). > The > > > kelvin > > > > rating is based on our > > > > > eyes and how they perceive color, so > each > > > company > > > > doesn't have to be > > > > > identical, perhaps some day they will > have > > a > > > universal > > > > way to measure > > > > > light > > > > > spectrums on bulbs that is much less > > confusing. > > > > > > > > > > Amber > > > > > > > > > > Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > OK. So you have a total of 80 > watts > > right > > > now, > > > > which is just over 1 > > > > > > WPG, which means you only have > enough > > > lighting > > > > for low-light, easy to > > > > > > grow plants. See my blog article > > "Planted > > > Tank: > > > > So You Want A Planted > > > > > > Tank" for links to lists of > low-light, > > easy > > > to > > > > grow plants that will > > > > > > do OK in your tank. You should > replace > > > those > > > > tubes at least yearly... > > > > > > although some say every six > months. As > > far > > > as I > > > > know, a 40W bulb is > > > > > > the highest wattage made for this > type > > of > > > > bulb/fixture right now but > > > > > > you can increase your lighting > > > > > > (lumens) and K (Kelvin) rating. > See > > below. > > > > > > > > > > > > NOTE - below links are for > > > example/informational > > > > purposes only, as I > > > > > > know nothing about the sites. > God... > > did I > > > just > > > > say that? Do I really > > > > > > have to add disclaimers to my > posts > > now? LOL > > > Just > > > > laughing at myself. > > > > > > LOL > > > > > > > > > > > > This may be your Sylvania bulb... > > > > > > http://www.lightbulbemporium.com/proddetail.asp?prod=F40/EX50 > > > > > > > > > <http://www.lightbulbemporium.com/proddetail.asp?prod=F40/EX50> > > > > > > <http://www.lightbulbemporium.com/proddetail.asp?prod=F40/EX50 > > > > > > > > > <http://www.lightbulbemporium.com/proddetail.asp?prod=F40/EX50>> > > > > and if > > > > > > it is, then it's the same ratings > as > > the > > > specs in > > > > the T-10 bulb that I > > > > > > copy/pasted below, which is a > pretty > > good > > > bulb > > > > with higher lumens and > > > > > > the higher K rating, although not > a > > 6500K > > > rated > > > > bulb. At the bottom of > > > > > > this page, there was a link to > this > > bulb... > > > > > > > > > > > http://www.lightbulbemporium.com/maxlite_51204_ml_f40t10_850_rscg.as > > > > > p > > > > > > > > > <http://www.lightbulbemporium.com/maxlite_51204_ml_f40t10_850_rscg.a > > > > > sp> > > > > > > > > > > > <http://www.lightbulbemporium.com/maxlite_51204_ml_f40t10_850_rscg.a > > > > > sp > > > > > > > > > <http://www.lightbulbemporium.com/maxlite_51204_ml_f40t10_850_rscg.a > > > > > sp> > > > > > > > > > > > > > which > > > > > > has an even higher lumen rating > of > > 3700, > > > although > > > > not much higher than > > > > > > the 3550 rating but every little > bit > > helps > > > > especially since the > > > > > > MaxLite bulb was a lower price > than > > the > > > Sylvania > > > > bulb. > > > > > > > > > > > > As you will see on this page > > > > > > > > > > > http://www.lightbulbsdirect.com/Merchant2/merchant.mvc?page=001/CTGY > > > > > /F > > > > > > > > > <http://www.lightbulbsdirect.com/Merchant2/merchant.mvc?page=001/CTG > > > > > Y/F> > > > > > > S+Fluo > > > > > > > > > > > <http://www.lightbulbsdirect.com/Merchant2/merchant.mvc?page=001/CTG > > > > > Y/ > > > > > > > > > <http://www.lightbulbsdirect.com/Merchant2/merchant.mvc?page=001/CTG > > > > > Y/> > > > > > > FS+Fluo> > > > > > > rescent > > > > > > > > > > > > The second bulb down would be > similar > > to > > > yours, > > > > except we do not know > > > > > > the lumen or color spectrum rating > on > > your > > > bulb, > > > > unless that link I > > > > > > gave above is actually your bulb > and > > then > > > it > > > > would be the same as this > > > > > > one. The specs on it are: > > > > > > > > > > > > T-10 Fluorescent > > > > > > 40 Watts > > > > > > Length: 48" > > > > > > Medium Bi-Pin Base > > > > > > Color: 5000K Temperature > > > > > > Initial Lumens: 3550 > > > > > > CRI: 84 > > > > > > Average Life: 20,000 Hours > > > > > > > > > > > > The Color spectrum of 5000K > (Kelvin) is > > OK > > > but > > > > 6500K would be much > > > > > better. > > > > > > The Lumens of 3550 is the actual > amount > > of > > > > *light* > > > > > > > > > > > > The next bulb down from that one > is a > > T-12, > > > which > > > > will also fit in > > > > > > your fixture but they are bigger > > diameter > > > bulbs > > > > and this one actually > > > > > > puts out less light (lumens). Here > are > > the > > > > specs: > > > > > > > > > > > > T-12 Fluorescent > > > > > > 40 Watts > > > > > > Length: 48" > > > > > > Base: Medium Bi-Pin Base > > > > > > Initial Lumens: 2200 > > > > > > Average Life: 20,000 Hours > > > > > > Color Temperature: 5000K > > > > > > CRI: 92 > > > > > > > > > > > > It has the same Color spectrum > but > > only > > > 2200 > > > > lumens so the above T-10 > > > > > > bulb has around 50% more lumens > > (light) > > > coming > > > > out of it. > > > > > > > > > > > > Now, if you scroll down to the > second > > from > > > the > > > > bottom on the page, > > > > > > you'll see the Verilux > Instant-Sun > > T-12 > > > bulb > > > > which has a higher Kelvin > > > > > > rating but it doesn't list the > lumens > > so > > > this > > > > needs to be checked out > > > > > > further. While the higher K rating > is > > good, > > > if it > > > > goes back down to > > > > > > only 2200 lumens, instead of the > 3550 > > lumens > > > of > > > > the first referenced > > > > > > bulb above, then I would probably > go > > with > > > the > > > > 3550 lumens, 5000K bulb > > > > > > over the 6280K bulb if the lumens > were > > a > > > LOT > > > > less. > > > > > > > > > > > > (START SNIP) > > > > > > Engineered to reproduce all the > colors > > and > > > > balance of natural light, > > > > > > VeriluxR full spectrum > fluorescent > > tubes > > > feature > > > > Trucolite Phosphor > > > > > > TechnologyT which includes the use > of > > a > > > stable, > > > > custom blend of earth > > > > > > phosphors that create bright, > balanced > > full > > > > spectrum light. > > > > > > T-12 Fluorescent > > > > > > 40 Watts > > > > > > Length: 48" > > > > > > Color Temperature: 6280K > > > > > > CRI: 94 > > > > > > Medium Bi-Pin Base > > > > > > (END SNIP) > > > > > > > > > > > > So, as you can see, there's a few > > things to > > > look > > > > for when shopping for > > > > > > new replacement bulbs. Look for > the > > 5000K > > > to > > > > 6500K bulbs with the > > > > > > higher lumen rating for the dollar > and > > you > > > should > > > > be good. Note that a > > > > > > 3550 or 3700 lumen bulb will put > out > > nearly > > > twice > > > > as much light as a > > > > > > 2000 lumen bulb so it can be easy > to > > > increase > > > > your lighting without > > > > > > increasing the wattage. DO NOT try > to > > use HO > > > or > > > > VHO bulbs... which > > > > > > look similar but have much higher > > wattage, > > > well > > > > over the 40W bulbs you > > > > > > now have. These other HO and VHO > bulbs > > have > > > > different pin arrangements > > > > > > so they will not fit in your > fixture > > anyhow > > > but I > > > > just wanted to save > > > > > > you a trip. > > > > > > > > > > > > Last but not least, if you're > handy, > > you > > > could > > > > even take the bulbs out > > > > > > of your fixtures and line the > insides > > of > > > your > > > > fixtures with nice and > > > > > > crisp and flat aluminum foil > (shiny > > side > > > exposed) > > > > which will also > > > > > > help. Using double stick tape and > then > > > carefully > > > > applying the foil so > > > > > > it does not wrinkle too much will > work > > > well... > > > > especially if the > > > > > > inside of your fixture is black. > A > > white > > > > reflector is good but a > > > > > > mirrored reflector, like that > created > > by > > > the > > > > shiny side of foil, is > > > > > > MUCH better than a black > reflector. > > Most > > > black > > > > fixtures do at least > > > > > > have white reflector areas. > > > > > > > > > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > > > > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > > > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>> > > > > > (Links to any articles referenced in > > > > > > above reply are listed on the > right > > side, > > > > alphabetically under Labels > > > > > > and also under Archives by Year, > > Month) > > > > > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > > > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > > > > > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On > > > > Behalf Of erikaandnewton > > > > > > Sent: Tuesday, November 10, 2009 > 10:17 > > AM > > > > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > > > > > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: > > > wisteria/lighting > > > > previous > > > > > > question/response revisited > > > > > > > > > > > > << When you say "two strips" > do > > you > > > have > > > > two 4' long two-bulb fixtures > > > > > > already or something > else?>> > > > > > > > > > > > > i have two 4' single bulb strip > > lights. > > > > > > > > > > > > >> What kind of lighting do > you > > > currently > > > > have? Look at the bulbs and > > > > > > >> there should be some kind > of > > > writing on > > > > one of the ends. Give us > > > > > > >> that info if you cannot > > decipher > > > it > > > > yourself.<< > > > > > > > > > > > > one bulb is a f40 t10 > > > > > > the other one is a sylvania > daylight > > bulb > > > also > > > > f40 > > > > > > > > > > > > >> It's probably 21" tall, > since > > a > > > common > > > > measurement for a 75G is > > > > > > >> 48"x18"x21" > Tall.>> > > > > > > > > > > > > it is 21 inches tall > > > > > > > > > > > > erika wilmington de usa > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ------------------------------------ > > > > > > > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING > below it > > when > > > replying, Thank > > > > You. > > > > > > > > > > ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> > > > > ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , > > .·´¯`·..><((((º> > > > > PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all > TEXT > > that > > > is NOT > > > > important to the reply & if CHANGING > the > > TOPIC of > > > the original message > > > > MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new > subject > > (was > > > re: old subject)" <- > > > > > > > > > > <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. > > > > , > .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. > > > > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in > this > > matter. > > > > > > > > If you do not want all of the groups > emails, > > instead > > > of unsubscribing, > > > > you can change your delivery option by > clicking > > on > > > "Edit My > > > > Membership" on the home page. > > > > > > > > Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com > > > > to receive the digest, which includes up to > 25 > > posts > > > at a time in a > > > > single email > > > > > > > > Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com > > > > for the No E-Mail option where you will > still be > > able > > > to read messages > > > > on the group and post replies. > > > > > > > > Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com > > > > to receive individual e-mails.Yahoo! Groups > > Links > > > > > > > > > > > >     AquaticLife-fullfeatured@yahoogroups.com > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >        > > > > > > > > > ------------------------------------ > > > > > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it > when > > > replying, Thank You. > > > > > > ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> > > > ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , > .·´¯`·..><((((º> > > > PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT > that > > is > > > NOT important to > > > the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the > original > > > message MODIFY the SUBJECT > > > LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old > subject)" > > <- > > > > > > <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. > > > , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. > > > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this > matter. > > > > > > If you do not want all of the groups emails, > instead > > of > > > unsubscribing, you > > > can change your delivery option by clicking on > "Edit > > My > > > Membership" on the > > > home page.  > > > > > > Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com > > > to receive the digest, which > > > includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single > email > > > > > > Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com > > > for the No E-Mail option where > > > you will still be able to read messages on the > group > > and > > > post replies. > > > > > > Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com > > > to receive individual > > > e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ------------------------------------ > > > > > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it > when > > > replying, Thank You. > > > > > > ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> > > > ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , > .·´¯`·..><((((º> > > > PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT > that > > is > > > NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the > TOPIC > > of > > > the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE > -> > > i.e. "new > > > subject (was re: old subject)" <- > > > > > > <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. > > > , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. > > > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this > matter. > > > > > > If you do not want all of the groups emails, > instead > > of > > > unsubscribing, you can change your delivery > option by > > > clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the home > page.  > > > > > > Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com > > > to receive the digest, which includes up to 25 > posts > > at a > > > time in a single email > > > > > > Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com > > > for the No E-Mail option where you will still be > able > > to > > > read messages on the group and post replies. > > > > > > Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com > > > to receive individual e-mails.Yahoo! Groups > Links > > > > > > > > >     AquaticLife-fullfeatured@yahoogroups.com > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >        > > > > > > ------------------------------------ > > > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when > > replying, Thank You. > > > ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> > > ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> > > PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that > is > > NOT important to > > the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original > > message MODIFY the SUBJECT > > LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" > <- > > > <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. > > , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. > > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. > > > > If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead > of > > unsubscribing, you > > can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit > My > > Membership" on the > > home page.  > > > > Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com > > to receive the digest, which > > includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email > > > > Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com > > for the No E-Mail option where > > you will still be able to read messages on the group > and > > post replies. > > > > Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com > > to receive individual > > e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > > > > > > > ------------------------------------ > > > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when > > replying, Thank You. > > > ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> > > ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> > > PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that > is > > NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC > of > > the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> > i.e. "new > > subject (was re: old subject)" <- > > > <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. > > , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. > > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. > > > > If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead > of > > unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by > > clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the home > page.  > > > > Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com > > to receive the digest, which includes up to 25 posts > at a > > time in a single email > > > > Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com > > for the No E-Mail option where you will still be able > to > > read messages on the group and post replies. > > > > Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com > > to receive individual e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > >     AquaticLife-fullfeatured@yahoogroups.com > > > > > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > ------------------------------------ > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when > replying, Thank You. > ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> > ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> > PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is > NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of > the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new > subject (was re: old subject)" <- > <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. > , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. > > If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of > unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by > clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the home page.  > > Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com > to receive the digest, which includes up to 25 posts at a > time in a single email > > Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com > for the No E-Mail option where you will still be able to > read messages on the group and post replies. > > Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com > to receive individual e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links > > >     AquaticLife-fullfeatured@yahoogroups.com > > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 44460	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 11/12/2009
Subject: Re: wisteria/lighting previous question/response revisited

Bill does have T-4's if I remember correctly, maybe one of those 20watt bulbs will work for him and provide more lumens than his current bulbs do. Did you check those links out Bill? ;) Amber Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > > Just because a fixture currently has a T-8 or T-10, does not mean it > cannot > use a T-12, and vice versa. They are all medium bi-pin bulbs, meaning they > all will fit and work UNLESS the reflector is so tight that a T-12 cannot > fit inside the fixture but I haven't seen this as a problem in the past. > Usually, going with a T-8 or T-10, instead of a T-12 will give more lumens > but in the case of this particular sized bulb, the T-12 may be the better > option. Of course, we still need more details on Bill's exact bulb. We > still do not know anything except that it's 17 watts... nothing about > lumens, K rating or anything else for comparison purposes. As Johnny 5 > once > said... "Need more input!" (I have no clue why that OLD movie line popped > into my head and I can't blame it on drugs since I didn't/don't do them... > and as far as I know, beer doesn't cause acid flashbacks. LOL > http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Short_Circuit > <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Short_Circuit>) > > Now... thinking back a little. Bill may have T-4's and if he does, those > use the miniature bi-pin base and the above larger T-#'s with medium > bi-pin > base would not work. If this is the case, there are other options > listed on > this page... > http://www.servicelighting.com/T4-Straight-Linear-Fluorescent-Light-Bulbs > <http://www.servicelighting.com/T4-Straight-Linear-Fluorescent-Light-Bulbs> > including this 20W, 6400K, 1340 Lumens bulb - > http://www.servicelighting.com/Bulbrite-85220-F20T4-64K-F20T4-D-T4-Straight- > <http://www.servicelighting.com/Bulbrite-85220-F20T4-64K-F20T4-D-T4-Straight-> > Linear-Fluorescent-Light-Bulb, which sounds like a pretty good bulb > from the > specs and actually provides more lumens than any of the T-12's previously > listed. > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right > side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On > Behalf Of Amber Berglund > Sent: Thursday, November 12, 2009 10:29 AM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: wisteria/lighting previous > question/response > revisited > > Bill has smaller bulbs, I think they are not easy to find in a higher > wattage output, which is what he was looking for a few months back. > > Amber > > Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > > > > I don't know what you mean by this. Please elaborate. What size tube? > > I posted about several different bulbs but all were T-12's, which is > > one of the most common sizes. > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>> > (Links to any articles referenced in > > above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels > > and also under Archives by Year, Month) > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On Behalf Of bill 1433 > > Sent: Thursday, November 12, 2009 8:59 AM > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: wisteria/lighting previous > > question/response revisited > > > > Yes Len, > > > > But its finding that size tube with more of anything that's the problem. > > > > Bill > > > > --- On Wed, 11/11/09, Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@... > <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com> > > <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com>> wrote: > > > > > From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@... > <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com> > > <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com>> > > > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: wisteria/lighting previous > > > question/response revisited > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > Date: Wednesday, November 11, 2009, 5:22 PM Well, if you only have > > > 17W, then you could definitely do better with the 20W, higher lumen, > > > better K rating bulbs that I mentioned. Considering the lumen > > > ratings of fluorescent bulbs I've looked at, your 17W bulbs might > > > only have 500-700 lumens where the BEST 20W bulb (below) has > > > 1075 lumens so you > > > could possibly increase your lighting by 50% to 100% just by > > > changing to that bulb. At least, with that bulb, you'll be in the > > > low-light range for plants on the 20G but the 29G will need some work. > > > > > > Of course, you should find out what the lumens and K ratings are on > > > the bulbs you have so you'll know if you are getting a small jump or > > > a BIG jump in lighting just by changing your bulbs. Check your local > > > WalMart for bulbs. My nearby WalMart SuperCenter has a really big > > > assortment of fluorescent tubes and they were cheaper than the Home > > > Depot. > > > > > > Something else I'm thinking about for you is going with 18" > > > light-sticks on > > > each end of your 29G tank or front or back (back would hide it best > > > but you decide your best aesthetics) and you'd have to make a DIY > > > reflector for it (white poster board and scotch tape would work) and > > > that would get more lighting down to the bottom level plants in the > > > 29G. > > > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>> > (Links to any articles > > > referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, > > > alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) > > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] > > > On > > > Behalf Of bill 1433 > > > Sent: Wednesday, November 11, 2009 3:42 PM > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: wisteria/lighting previous > > > question/response revisited > > > > > > It is what it is type of thing Len. Site says one thing but stamped > > > or printed right on the tube is at 17 watts. > > > > > > Bill > > > > > > --- On Wed, 11/11/09, Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@... > <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com> > > <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com>> > > > wrote: > > > > > > > From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@... > <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com> > > <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com>> > > > > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: wisteria/lighting > > > previous > > > > question/response revisited > > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > Date: Wednesday, November 11, 2009, 2:16 PM The > > > problem might be this > > > > statement in the description... > > > > > > > > "... Hoods include 8000ºK bulb... ...20W, 24"..." > > > > > > > > That's getting into the higher green/blue Kelvin > > > range... > > > > closer to the > > > > 10,000K actinic type bulbs... than the 5000K to 6500K > > > "Daylight" bulbs > > > > that provide full spectrum lighting. It's also only > > > a 20W bulb > > > > (according to the DFS site, although you stated it was > > > only 17W so > > > > double check this) so it's only 1WPG on the 20G and > > > only 0.69WPG on > > > > the 29G. Of course, if the bulb puts out a LOT more > > > lumens (you would > > > > have to do more checking up on the bulb to find this), > > > that would help > > > > a little but not much. I think you need at least > > > 1WPG to have success > > > > with low-light plants, although floating plants like > > > Anacharis, > > > > Hornwort, Duckweed, etc., would be up close to the > > > light and benefit > > > > from CO2 from the air and would do OK with your > > > lighting... but then > > > > they would also block out the lighting to the rest of > > > the tank. > > > > > > > > I don't see a lot of options, as far as T-8 bulbs are > > > concerned for > > > > this size fixture but I see a few different T-12's... > > > such as... > > > > > > > > (My rating is: GOOD - but see BETTER and BEST options > > > below... at > > > > least as far as the bulbs on this site are concerned) > > > > > > > > > > > http://www.servicelighting.com/Sylvania-22119-F20T12-DSGN50-T12-Straig > <http://www.servicelighting.com/Sylvania-22119-F20T12-DSGN50-T12-Straig> > > > <http://www.servicelighting.com/Sylvania-22119-F20T12-DSGN50-T12-Strai > <http://www.servicelighting.com/Sylvania-22119-F20T12-DSGN50-T12-Strai> > > g> > > > > ht-Lin > > > > ear-Fluorescent-Light-Bulb > > > > > > > > Light Output: 880 lumens > > > > Refers to the literal measure of the light-output of a > > > particular > > > > light bulb, measured in the number of lumens. > > > > > > > > Energy Used: 20 watts > > > > "Watts" is the term applied to the amount of energy > > > required and used > > > > by a particular light bulb. It is an international > > > system unit of > > > > power equal to one joule per second. Contrary to > > > popular belief, the > > > > wattage of a bulb does not directly measure the > > > brightness; the > > > > "lumens" of a light is what defines the actual light > > > output. > > > > > > > > Average Lifetime: 9,000 hours > > > > This refers to an average lifetime rating based on > > > large quantities in > > > > test groups. This testing takes into account usage of > > > 3 hours per > > > > start for fluorescent lamps and 10 hours per start for > > > HID lamps. > > > > > > > > Bulb Type: T12 > > > > The "Bulb Type" is typically a combination of the > > > style of bulb as > > > > well as the width of the bulb. Usually, the first > > > couple letters will > > > > indicate the type; "G" would indicate "Globe", "PAR" > > > would indicate > > > > "Parabolic Reflector"... The numbers indicate the > > > diameter of the > > > > light bulb in eighths of an inch; a "G40" would be a > > > "Globe" style > > > > that is "5 inches" in diameter. > > > > > > > > > > > > Base Type: Medium Bi-Pin > > > > The "Base" of a light bulb is the part that either > > > screws or snaps > > > > into a receptacle. Base Type terminology may indicate > > > common > > > > descriptive words like "Medium" or "Candelabra", or > > > may even contain > > > > numeric codes that signify size and variety, like > > > "E26" or "2GX13". > > > > > > > > Color Temperature: 5,000K > > > > Correlated Color Temperature (CCT) is a specification > > > of the color > > > > appearance of a lamp, relating its color to that of a > > > reference source > > > > heated to a particular temperature, measured in > > > degrees Kelvin (K). It > > > > generally measures the "warmth" or "coolness" of light > > > source > > > > appearance. > > > > > > > > CRI: 90 > > > > CRI refers to the "Color Rendering Index" of a light > > > bulb. > > > > CRI measures a > > > > light source and grades its ability to render the > > > color of objects > > > > "correctly," as compared with a reference source with > > > comparable color > > > > temperature. 100 is perfect rendering. > > > > > > > > Length: 24 inches > > > > > > > > > > > > (BETTER - slightly higher lumens and higher 6500K > > > rating) > > > > > > > > > > > http://www.servicelighting.com/Westinghouse-36516-F20T12-FS-T12-Straig > <http://www.servicelighting.com/Westinghouse-36516-F20T12-FS-T12-Straig> > > > <http://www.servicelighting.com/Westinghouse-36516-F20T12-FS-T12-Strai > <http://www.servicelighting.com/Westinghouse-36516-F20T12-FS-T12-Strai> > > g> > > > > ht-Lin > > > > ear-Fluorescent-Light-Bulb > > > > > > > > Light Output: 900 lumens > > > > Energy Used: 20 watts > > > > Average Lifetime: 10,000 hours > > > > Bulb Type: T12 > > > > Base Type: Medium Bi-Pin > > > > Color Temperature: 6,500K > > > > CRI: 90 > > > > Length: 24 inches > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > (BEST, of these three - around 20% higher lumens and > > > good 6,500K > > > > rating, although it does have a lower CRI rating.. but > > > still > > > > passing) > > > > > > > > > > > http://www.servicelighting.com/Sylvania-22083-F20T12-D-T12-Straight-Li > <http://www.servicelighting.com/Sylvania-22083-F20T12-D-T12-Straight-Li> > > > <http://www.servicelighting.com/Sylvania-22083-F20T12-D-T12-Straight-L > <http://www.servicelighting.com/Sylvania-22083-F20T12-D-T12-Straight-L> > > i> > > > > near-F > > > > luorescent-Light-Bulb > > > > > > > > Light Output: 1,075 lumens > > > > Energy Used: 20 watts > > > > Average Lifetime: 9,000 hours > > > > Bulb Type: T12 > > > > Base Type: Medium Bi-Pin > > > > Color Temperature: 6,500K > > > > CRI: 76 > > > > Length: 24 inches > > > > > > > > Compare the above three to what is sold as a > > > plant/aquarium light by > > > > the same company, which has a lower lumens, MUCH lower > > > CRI rating and > > > > does not list the K rating other than to say "Plant" > > > which is a > > > > subjective rating established by the manufacturer. > > > > > > > > (WORST) > > > > > > > > > > > http://www.servicelighting.com/Westinghouse-36411-F20T12-PL-T12-Straig > <http://www.servicelighting.com/Westinghouse-36411-F20T12-PL-T12-Straig> > > > <http://www.servicelighting.com/Westinghouse-36411-F20T12-PL-T12-Strai > <http://www.servicelighting.com/Westinghouse-36411-F20T12-PL-T12-Strai> > > g> > > > > ht-Lin > > > > ear-Fluorescent-Light-Bulb > > > > > > > > Light Output: 700 lumens (over 30% less lighting > > > than the 1,075 > > > > lumens bulb > > > > above) > > > > Energy Used: 20 watts > > > > Average Lifetime: 10,000 hours > > > > Bulb Type: T12 > > > > Base Type: Medium Bi-Pin > > > > Color: Plant > > > > CRI: 61 > > > > Length: 24 inches > > > > > > > > If any of the above have much better lumens than your > > > current > > > > lighting... > > > > and they all have better K ratings, then any of them > > > would be better > > > > for you... but you would still be stuck with only 20 > > > watts but it's > > > > the LUMENS and K rating that count more than watts. > > > You need to find > > > > out the lumens on your bulb. Try to find it on the > > > DFS site and let > > > > us know. > > > > > > > > You should look at the AHSupply.com place for a > > > retrofit kit so you > > > > can use CFL's in your current hood. That would > > > probably be your least > > > > expensive option. I know you don't like electricity > > > but I'm sure you > > > > know someone that could do this for you... on the > > > cheap... or over a > > > > 6-pack. > > > > > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>> > (Links to > > > any articles > > > > referenced in above reply are listed on the right > > > side, alphabetically > > > > under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) > > > > > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] > > > > On > > > > Behalf Of bill 1433 > > > > Sent: Wednesday, November 11, 2009 9:33 AM > > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: wisteria/lighting > > > previous > > > > question/response > > > > revisited > > > > > > > > Hi \\Steve// > > > > > > > > At this point, and also to refresh your mind, and > > > anyone > > > > else on the group > > > > that may have interest. This all got started with > > > my > > > > search for a tube that > > > > would allow me more light output from an All Glass > > > Plastic > > > > hood and light. > > > > This unit comes with a "color type tube at 17 watts > > > that is > > > > only 24 inches > > > > long. This is for a 20/29-gallon tank. I was stupid enough to buy > > > > two of them, one for each tank. For further inspection > > > here > > > > is the light: > > > > > > > > > > http://www.drsfostersmith.com/product/prod_display.cfm?pcatid=13447 > <http://www.drsfostersmith.com/product/prod_display.cfm?pcatid=13447> > > <http://www.drsfostersmith.com/product/prod_display.cfm?pcatid=13447 > <http://www.drsfostersmith.com/product/prod_display.cfm?pcatid=13447>> > > > > > > > > For those that would like to aggravate themselves > > > further, > > > > I can also state > > > > that these hoods are very conducive to growing Black Algae! > > > > > > > > Summoning up, I should have only purchased an > > > All-Glass > > > > cover and then > > > > probably a double tube light of sufficient wattage to > > > bring > > > > me up to the > > > > recommended 2 or 3 watts per gallon. > > > > > > > > Ya live and learn, > > > > > > > > Bill > > > > > > > > > > > > --- On Tue, 11/10/09, Steve Szabo <steve@... > <mailto:steve%40familyszabo.com> > > <mailto:steve%40familyszabo.com>> > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > From: Steve Szabo <steve@... > <mailto:steve%40familyszabo.com> > > <mailto:steve%40familyszabo.com>> > > > > > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: wisteria/lighting > > > > previous > > > > > question/response revisited > > > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > Date: Tuesday, November 10, 2009, 11:50 PM Bill, > > > you > > > > got it right! The > > > > > T numbers represent the diameter of the bulb in > > > 1/8" > > > > increments. A T4 > > > > > is a bulb 1/2" in diameter, T5 is 5/8", t8 is > > > 1" and > > > > a t12 is 1 1/2". > > > > > As I recall, the F is the wattage of the bulb. > > > > > > > > > > Lumens, not usually stated on the bulb is the > > > actual > > > > amount of light > > > > > coming from the bulb. It really does not have > > > anything > > > > to do with > > > > > watts, though more watts will give you more > > > lumens, > > > > but, also the > > > > > phosphors used in the bulb affect the amount of > > > lumen > > > > output. Lumens > > > > > and lux are often used interchangeably, but they > > > are > > > > really different > > > > > measurements. Lux is the measure of illumination > > > over > > > > a given area. It > > > > > may actually be more important to aquarists > > > raising > > > > plants than the > > > > > lumen output. Lux is what is measured by a light > > > > meter, for anyone who > > > > > happens to know what they are--not often seen > > > with > > > > today's cameras and > > > > > photographers. > > > > > > > > > > Color temperature is important. Average daylight > > > > (except may in > > > > > Amber's area where they have 6 months of > > > darkness) has > > > > a color > > > > > temperature of 5500-6000. > > > > > An overcast day can have a color temperature of > > > 6500. > > > > As mentioned > > > > > earlier, plants need light in two color > > > spectrums, > > > > and, actually they > > > > > are rather narrow spans of wavelengths they > > > benefit > > > > from. > > > > > > > > > > I thought I had a bookmark explaining this, but > > > I > > > > can't find it > > > > > quickly (over 400K of bookmarks, and things have > > > a > > > > tendency to get > > > > > lost), however, some judicial Googling will gain > > > you > > > > the information. > > > > > > > > > > \\Steve// > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] > > > > > On > > > > > Behalf Of bill 1433 > > > > > Sent: Tuesday, November 10, 2009 10:20 PM > > > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: wisteria/lighting > > > > previous > > > > > question/response revisited > > > > > > > > > > Yes, Amber > > > > > > > > > > It was I, looking for the original information > > > and > > > > also looked back on > > > > > \\Steve//'s post at group to try and find. Ray > > > had > > > > mentioned all this > > > > > the other day saying that he thought the posting > > > came > > > > from \\Steve//. > > > > > > > > > > I was not successful in my search. Also, for me > > > the > > > > most important > > > > > part was a link to a chart which showed you > > > exactly, > > > > or explained > > > > > exactly the "T" > > > > > factor stands for. For instance, T-4 would be a > > > tube > > > > that is a half > > > > > inch wide, or close to it-----------I think. > > > All > > > > this is my own > > > > > fault. In my interest to acquire and learn > > > about > > > > lighting,I went > > > > > through and studied the applied links but being > > > > ol'bill, I never > > > > > bookmarked them. > > > > > Then to further > > > > > compound the problem, I deleted the original > > > message > > > > that it came > > > > > from. In hind-sight you could probably chalk > > > this > > > > all up to felonious > > > > > stupidity on my part. > > > > > > > > > > Bill---where its always a good day if I learn > > > > something new! > > > > > > > > > > --- On Tue, 11/10/09, Amber Berglund <arberglund@... > <mailto:arberglund%40gmail.com> > > <mailto:arberglund%40gmail.com>> > > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > From: Amber Berglund <arberglund@... > <mailto:arberglund%40gmail.com> > > <mailto:arberglund%40gmail.com>> > > > > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: wisteria/lighting > > > > previous > > > > > question/response revisited > > > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > Date: Tuesday, November 10, 2009, 9:30 PM > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I believe it was Steve who posted a link about > > > lumens > > > > months back when > > > > > (I think it was maybe Bill asking) about lighting > > > for > > > > planted > > > > > aquariums. > > > > > Plants require 2 different spectrums of light to > > > > properly produce > > > > > either leaves or flowers (red is more for flower > > > > production and blue > > > > > is more for growth, but for the best growing you > > > want > > > > a mixture of > > > > > BOTH colors). > > > > > So in reality you would want a light that appears > > > more > > > > brown/reddish > > > > > in coloring and a blue/white coloring as well, > > > but > > > > they now have bulbs > > > > > that have BOTH spectrums built in (I'm sure they > > > don't > > > > work as well as > > > > > it would to have 2 different bulbs one mostly red > > > and > > > > the other mostly > > > > > blue on the color spectrum). > > > > > Let me see if I still have the link bookmarked. > > > > > What I was trying to say is that Kelvin does not > > > tell > > > > you what color > > > > > spectrum the light REALLY is, it's actually > > > measuring > > > > it's light > > > > > output color according to how the human eyes > > > perceive > > > > it. So 6500 > > > > > kelvin in general is what most plants will > > > prefer > > > > because that is a > > > > > mixture of both red and blue spectrums (In MOST > > > bulbs) > > > > unfortunately > > > > > not all light bulb manufactures have to use the > > > exact > > > > same chart for > > > > > their colors, so they will have different colors > > > than > > > > another bulb > > > > > that says it's 6500 Kelvin. what you really need > > > to > > > > read is the color > > > > > chart on the box, not what lumens it says it is. > > > > > (still searching for link, LOL). > > > > > > > > > > This isn't the right link but it discusses the > > > > kelvin/lumen problems a > > > > > little bit, still looking for the link that > > > showed the > > > > charts and what > > > > > to look for in the color charts. > > > > > http://www.americanaquariumproducts.com/Aquarium_Lighting.html > <http://www.americanaquariumproducts.com/Aquarium_Lighting.html> > > <http://www.americanaquariumproducts.com/Aquarium_Lighting.html > <http://www.americanaquariumproducts.com/Aquarium_Lighting.html>> > > > > > > > > > > Will post again when I find the other link with > > > chart > > > > examples. > > > > > > > > > > Amber > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > I think it would be false advertising or > > > > possibly > > > > > mis-advertising (if they > > > > > > do not know any better) if a company lists > > > their > > > > bulbs > > > > > as 6500K and they > > > > > > aren't. The Kelvin scale, just like Watts > > > and > > > > Lumens, > > > > > are ALL > > > > > > universal and > > > > > > scientifically measurable scales BUT, as I > > > > showed > > > > > below, not all 40 watt > > > > > > bulbs put out the same amount of light > > > (lumens) > > > > or in > > > > > the same color > > > > > > spectrum (Kelvin rating). All 40 watt > > > bulbs, > > > > whether > > > > > incandescent, > > > > > > fluorescent, CFL, LED, Halogen, etc.... ALL > > > use > > > > > only/around 40 watts of > > > > > > electricity but their light output can vary > > > > > dramatically. This is why > > > > > > fluorescent bulbs are so much more > > > efficient > > > > than > > > > > incandescent bulbs and > > > > > > CFL's are even more efficient... as a 40W > > > > fluorescent > > > > > bulb puts out a LOT > > > > > > more light (lumens) than a 40 watt > > > incandescent > > > > bulb > > > > > and a 40W CFL > > > > > > puts out > > > > > > more light (lumens) than a 40W fluorescent > > > bulb. > > > > This > > > > > is why the OLD > > > > > > "Watts > > > > > > Per Gallon" rule simply does not work any > > > more. > > > > > > > > > > > > BUT.. if three different companies are > > > selling > > > > > standard T-10 fluorescent > > > > > > bulbs with the same exact rating of 40W, > > > 3550 > > > > lumens > > > > > and 6500K > > > > > > rating... all > > > > > > three of those bulbs should be VERY SIMILAR > > > if > > > > not > > > > > identical in the > > > > > > way they > > > > > > appear to our eyes (subject to our own > > > degree of > > > > color > > > > > blindness, of > > > > > > course!) > > > > > > > > > > > > In the past, things like "soft white", > > > "warm > > > > white", > > > > > "daylight", "plant > > > > > > grow", etc., type terms were used and are > > > still > > > > used > > > > > but those are just > > > > > > simple words (not subject to a scientific > > > scale) > > > > to > > > > > describe the Kelvin > > > > > > rating ranges but lumens are just as > > > important > > > > since a > > > > > bulb could have a > > > > > > 6500K rating with only 2200 lumens where > > > another > > > > bulb > > > > > could have a 6500K > > > > > > rating and 3550 or 3700 lumens and that > > > bulb > > > > would put > > > > > out over 50% more > > > > > > light (lumens) in the same color spectrum > > > > (Kelvin > > > > > rating) so it would be a > > > > > > much more cost effective bulb if it cost > > > the > > > > same > > > > > amount or only a little > > > > > > more. > > > > > > > > > > > > I'm slightly confused about the "red and > > > blue > > > > light > > > > > for your plants" as > > > > > > those two colors are on opposite ends of > > > the > > > > Kelvin > > > > > Scale with reds and > > > > > > ambers in the lower numbers and greens and > > > blues > > > > in > > > > > the higher numbers. I > > > > > > think this is why you would want a > > > mid-range > > > > (5000K to > > > > > 6500K) bulb as > > > > > > those > > > > > > are generally considered "full spectrum" or > > > > "daylight" > > > > > bulbs. Here's a > > > > > > color picture of the Kelvin Scale, > > > > > > http://www.bltdirect.com/images/colour-temperature.jpg > <http://www.bltdirect.com/images/colour-temperature.jpg> > > <http://www.bltdirect.com/images/colour-temperature.jpg > <http://www.bltdirect.com/images/colour-temperature.jpg>> > > > > > > > > > > > <http://www.bltdirect.com/images/colour-temperature.jpg > <http://www.bltdirect.com/images/colour-temperature.jpg> > > <http://www.bltdirect.com/images/colour-temperature.jpg > <http://www.bltdirect.com/images/colour-temperature.jpg>>> > > > > > and you can > > > > > > visually > > > > > > see that the 5000K to 6500K range is all > > > about > > > > the > > > > > same "color". I think > > > > > > this is also why Actinic bulbs are usually > > > higher > > > > and > > > > > closer to the 10000K > > > > > > range and up... apparently, the Kelvin > > > lighting > > > > scale > > > > > can go up to 20,000K > > > > > > (according to this article about Reef Tanks > > > > > > > > > http://nh.craigslist.org/for/1423072406.html > <http://nh.craigslist.org/for/1423072406.html> > > <http://nh.craigslist.org/for/1423072406.html > <http://nh.craigslist.org/for/1423072406.html>> > > > > > > <http://nh.craigslist.org/for/1423072406.html > <http://nh.craigslist.org/for/1423072406.html> > > <http://nh.craigslist.org/for/1423072406.html > <http://nh.craigslist.org/for/1423072406.html>>> on, > > > > of > > > > > all places, > > > > > > Craigslist). > > > > > > Here is the page that that the above photo > > > link > > > > came > > > > > from and it has a > > > > > > chart > > > > > > that also explains things a little more also > > > and > > > > talks > > > > > about the CRI, yet > > > > > > another lighting term (Color Rendition > > > Index). > > > > > > http://www.bltdirect.com/lampColourTemperatures.php > <http://www.bltdirect.com/lampColourTemperatures.php> > > <http://www.bltdirect.com/lampColourTemperatures.php > <http://www.bltdirect.com/lampColourTemperatures.php>> > > > > > > <http://www.bltdirect.com/lampColourTemperatures.php > <http://www.bltdirect.com/lampColourTemperatures.php> > > <http://www.bltdirect.com/lampColourTemperatures.php > <http://www.bltdirect.com/lampColourTemperatures.php>>> > > > > > > > > > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > > > > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>> > > > > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>>> (Links > > > > to any articles referenced in > > > > > > above reply are > > > > > listed on the right > > > > > > side, alphabetically under Labels and also > > > under > > > > > Archives by Year, Month) > > > > > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > > > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On > > > > Behalf Of Amber Berglund > > > > > > Sent: Tuesday, November 10, 2009 4:22 PM > > > > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: > > > wisteria/lighting > > > > > previous > > > > > > question/response > > > > > > revisited > > > > > > > > > > > > Another thing to consider is one light > > > company's > > > > 6500 > > > > > kelvin rating > > > > > > may not > > > > > > be identical to another light bulb from a > > > > different > > > > > company that's > > > > > > rated the > > > > > > same. The important thing to look at is the > > > > color > > > > > chart they show on the > > > > > > boxes, you want more red and blue light for > > > your > > > > > plants, green is not > > > > > > useful > > > > > > or harmful as the plants reflect the light > > > back > > > > (makes > > > > > them appear more > > > > > > green but does nothing else for them). The > > > > kelvin > > > > > rating is based on our > > > > > > eyes and how they perceive color, so each > > > > company > > > > > doesn't have to be > > > > > > identical, perhaps some day they will have > > > a > > > > universal > > > > > way to measure > > > > > > light > > > > > > spectrums on bulbs that is much less > > > confusing. > > > > > > > > > > > > Amber > > > > > > > > > > > > Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > OK. So you have a total of 80 watts > > > right > > > > now, > > > > > which is just over 1 > > > > > > > WPG, which means you only have enough > > > > lighting > > > > > for low-light, easy to > > > > > > > grow plants. See my blog article > > > "Planted > > > > Tank: > > > > > So You Want A Planted > > > > > > > Tank" for links to lists of low-light, > > > easy > > > > to > > > > > grow plants that will > > > > > > > do OK in your tank. You should replace > > > > those > > > > > tubes at least yearly... > > > > > > > although some say every six months. As > > > far > > > > as I > > > > > know, a 40W bulb is > > > > > > > the highest wattage made for this type > > > of > > > > > bulb/fixture right now but > > > > > > > you can increase your lighting > > > > > > > (lumens) and K (Kelvin) rating. See > > > below. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > NOTE - below links are for > > > > example/informational > > > > > purposes only, as I > > > > > > > know nothing about the sites. God... > > > did I > > > > just > > > > > say that? Do I really > > > > > > > have to add disclaimers to my posts > > > now? LOL > > > > Just > > > > > laughing at myself. > > > > > > > LOL > > > > > > > > > > > > > > This may be your Sylvania bulb... > > > > > > > > > http://www.lightbulbemporium.com/proddetail.asp?prod=F40/EX50 > <http://www.lightbulbemporium.com/proddetail.asp?prod=F40/EX50> > > <http://www.lightbulbemporium.com/proddetail.asp?prod=F40/EX50 > <http://www.lightbulbemporium.com/proddetail.asp?prod=F40/EX50>> > > > > > > > > > > > > <http://www.lightbulbemporium.com/proddetail.asp?prod=F40/EX50 > <http://www.lightbulbemporium.com/proddetail.asp?prod=F40/EX50> > > <http://www.lightbulbemporium.com/proddetail.asp?prod=F40/EX50 > <http://www.lightbulbemporium.com/proddetail.asp?prod=F40/EX50>>> > > > > > > > > > <http://www.lightbulbemporium.com/proddetail.asp?prod=F40/EX50 > <http://www.lightbulbemporium.com/proddetail.asp?prod=F40/EX50> > > <http://www.lightbulbemporium.com/proddetail.asp?prod=F40/EX50 > <http://www.lightbulbemporium.com/proddetail.asp?prod=F40/EX50>> > > > > > > > > > > > > <http://www.lightbulbemporium.com/proddetail.asp?prod=F40/EX50 > <http://www.lightbulbemporium.com/proddetail.asp?prod=F40/EX50> > > <http://www.lightbulbemporium.com/proddetail.asp?prod=F40/EX50 > <http://www.lightbulbemporium.com/proddetail.asp?prod=F40/EX50>>>> > > > > > and if > > > > > > > it is, then it's the same ratings as > > > the > > > > specs in > > > > > the T-10 bulb that I > > > > > > > copy/pasted below, which is a pretty > > > good > > > > bulb > > > > > with higher lumens and > > > > > > > the higher K rating, although not a > > > 6500K > > > > rated > > > > > bulb. At the bottom of > > > > > > > this page, there was a link to this > > > bulb... > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > http://www.lightbulbemporium.com/maxlite_51204_ml_f40t10_850_rscg.as > <http://www.lightbulbemporium.com/maxlite_51204_ml_f40t10_850_rscg.as> > > > <http://www.lightbulbemporium.com/maxlite_51204_ml_f40t10_850_rscg.as > <http://www.lightbulbemporium.com/maxlite_51204_ml_f40t10_850_rscg.as>> > > > > > > p > > > > > > > > > > > > > <http://www.lightbulbemporium.com/maxlite_51204_ml_f40t10_850_rscg.a > <http://www.lightbulbemporium.com/maxlite_51204_ml_f40t10_850_rscg.a> > > <http://www.lightbulbemporium.com/maxlite_51204_ml_f40t10_850_rscg.a > <http://www.lightbulbemporium.com/maxlite_51204_ml_f40t10_850_rscg.a>> > > > > > > sp> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > <http://www.lightbulbemporium.com/maxlite_51204_ml_f40t10_850_rscg.a > <http://www.lightbulbemporium.com/maxlite_51204_ml_f40t10_850_rscg.a> > > <http://www.lightbulbemporium.com/maxlite_51204_ml_f40t10_850_rscg.a > <http://www.lightbulbemporium.com/maxlite_51204_ml_f40t10_850_rscg.a>> > > > > > > sp > > > > > > > > > > > > > <http://www.lightbulbemporium.com/maxlite_51204_ml_f40t10_850_rscg.a > <http://www.lightbulbemporium.com/maxlite_51204_ml_f40t10_850_rscg.a> > > <http://www.lightbulbemporium.com/maxlite_51204_ml_f40t10_850_rscg.a > <http://www.lightbulbemporium.com/maxlite_51204_ml_f40t10_850_rscg.a>> > > > > > > sp> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > which > > > > > > > has an even higher lumen rating of > > > 3700, > > > > although > > > > > not much higher than > > > > > > > the 3550 rating but every little bit > > > helps > > > > > especially since the > > > > > > > MaxLite bulb was a lower price than > > > the > > > > Sylvania > > > > > bulb. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > As you will see on this page > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > http://www.lightbulbsdirect.com/Merchant2/merchant.mvc?page=001/CTGY > <http://www.lightbulbsdirect.com/Merchant2/merchant.mvc?page=001/CTGY> > > > <http://www.lightbulbsdirect.com/Merchant2/merchant.mvc?page=001/CTGY > <http://www.lightbulbsdirect.com/Merchant2/merchant.mvc?page=001/CTGY>> > > > > > > /F > > > > > > > > > > > > > <http://www.lightbulbsdirect.com/Merchant2/merchant.mvc?page=001/CTG > <http://www.lightbulbsdirect.com/Merchant2/merchant.mvc?page=001/CTG> > > <http://www.lightbulbsdirect.com/Merchant2/merchant.mvc?page=001/CTG > <http://www.lightbulbsdirect.com/Merchant2/merchant.mvc?page=001/CTG>> > > > > > > Y/F> > > > > > > > S+Fluo > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > <http://www.lightbulbsdirect.com/Merchant2/merchant.mvc?page=001/CTG > <http://www.lightbulbsdirect.com/Merchant2/merchant.mvc?page=001/CTG> > > <http://www.lightbulbsdirect.com/Merchant2/merchant.mvc?page=001/CTG > <http://www.lightbulbsdirect.com/Merchant2/merchant.mvc?page=001/CTG>> > > > > > > Y/ > > > > > > > > > > > > > <http://www.lightbulbsdirect.com/Merchant2/merchant.mvc?page=001/CTG > <http://www.lightbulbsdirect.com/Merchant2/merchant.mvc?page=001/CTG> > > <http://www.lightbulbsdirect.com/Merchant2/merchant.mvc?page=001/CTG > <http://www.lightbulbsdirect.com/Merchant2/merchant.mvc?page=001/CTG>> > > > > > > Y/> > > > > > > > FS+Fluo> > > > > > > > rescent > > > > > > > > > > > > > > The second bulb down would be similar > > > to > > > > yours, > > > > > except we do not know > > > > > > > the lumen or color spectrum rating on > > > your > > > > bulb, > > > > > unless that link I > > > > > > > gave above is actually your bulb and > > > then > > > > it > > > > > would be the same as this > > > > > > > one. The specs on it are: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > T-10 Fluorescent > > > > > > > 40 Watts > > > > > > > Length: 48" > > > > > > > Medium Bi-Pin Base > > > > > > > Color: 5000K Temperature > > > > > > > Initial Lumens: 3550 > > > > > > > CRI: 84 > > > > > > > Average Life: 20,000 Hours > > > > > > > > > > > > > > The Color spectrum of 5000K (Kelvin) is > > > OK > > > > but > > > > > 6500K would be much > > > > > > better. > > > > > > > The Lumens of 3550 is the actual amount > > > of > > > > > *light* > > > > > > > > > > > > > > The next bulb down from that one is a > > > T-12, > > > > which > > > > > will also fit in > > > > > > > your fixture but they are bigger > > > diameter > > > > bulbs > > > > > and this one actually > > > > > > > puts out less light (lumens). Here are > > > the > > > > > specs: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > T-12 Fluorescent > > > > > > > 40 Watts > > > > > > > Length: 48" > > > > > > > Base: Medium Bi-Pin Base > > > > > > > Initial Lumens: 2200 > > > > > > > Average Life: 20,000 Hours > > > > > > > Color Temperature: 5000K > > > > > > > CRI: 92 > > > > > > > > > > > > > > It has the same Color spectrum but > > > only > > > > 2200 > > > > > lumens so the above T-10 > > > > > > > bulb has around 50% more lumens > > > (light) > > > > coming > > > > > out of it. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Now, if you scroll down to the second > > > from > > > > the > > > > > bottom on the page, > > > > > > > you'll see the Verilux Instant-Sun > > > T-12 > > > > bulb > > > > > which has a higher Kelvin > > > > > > > rating but it doesn't list the lumens > > > so > > > > this > > > > > needs to be checked out > > > > > > > further. While the higher K rating is > > > good, > > > > if it > > > > > goes back down to > > > > > > > only 2200 lumens, instead of the 3550 > > > lumens > > > > of > > > > > the first referenced > > > > > > > bulb above, then I would probably go > > > with > > > > the > > > > > 3550 lumens, 5000K bulb > > > > > > > over the 6280K bulb if the lumens were > > > a > > > > LOT > > > > > less. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > (START SNIP) > > > > > > > Engineered to reproduce all the colors > > > and > > > > > balance of natural light, > > > > > > > VeriluxR full spectrum fluorescent > > > tubes > > > > feature > > > > > Trucolite Phosphor > > > > > > > TechnologyT which includes the use of > > > a > > > > stable, > > > > > custom blend of earth > > > > > > > phosphors that create bright, balanced > > > full > > > > > spectrum light. > > > > > > > T-12 Fluorescent > > > > > > > 40 Watts > > > > > > > Length: 48" > > > > > > > Color Temperature: 6280K > > > > > > > CRI: 94 > > > > > > > Medium Bi-Pin Base > > > > > > > (END SNIP) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > So, as you can see, there's a few > > > things to > > > > look > > > > > for when shopping for > > > > > > > new replacement bulbs. Look for the > > > 5000K > > > > to > > > > > 6500K bulbs with the > > > > > > > higher lumen rating for the dollar and > > > you > > > > should > > > > > be good. Note that a > > > > > > > 3550 or 3700 lumen bulb will put out > > > nearly > > > > twice > > > > > as much light as a > > > > > > > 2000 lumen bulb so it can be easy to > > > > increase > > > > > your lighting without > > > > > > > increasing the wattage. DO NOT try to > > > use HO > > > > or > > > > > VHO bulbs... which > > > > > > > look similar but have much higher > > > wattage, > > > > well > > > > > over the 40W bulbs you > > > > > > > now have. These other HO and VHO bulbs > > > have > > > > > different pin arrangements > > > > > > > so they will not fit in your fixture > > > anyhow > > > > but I > > > > > just wanted to save > > > > > > > you a trip. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Last but not least, if you're handy, > > > you > > > > could > > > > > even take the bulbs out > > > > > > > of your fixtures and line the insides > > > of > > > > your > > > > > fixtures with nice and > > > > > > > crisp and flat aluminum foil (shiny > > > side > > > > exposed) > > > > > which will also > > > > > > > help. Using double stick tape and then > > > > carefully > > > > > applying the foil so > > > > > > > it does not wrinkle too much will work > > > > well... > > > > > especially if the > > > > > > > inside of your fixture is black. A > > > white > > > > > reflector is good but a > > > > > > > mirrored reflector, like that created > > > by > > > > the > > > > > shiny side of foil, is > > > > > > > MUCH better than a black reflector. > > > Most > > > > black > > > > > fixtures do at least > > > > > > > have white reflector areas. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > > > > > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>> > > > > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>>> > > > > > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>>>> > > > > > > (Links to any articles referenced in > > > > > > > above reply are listed on the right > > > side, > > > > > alphabetically under Labels > > > > > > > and also under Archives by Year, > > > Month) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > > > > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On > > > > > Behalf Of erikaandnewton > > > > > > > Sent: Tuesday, November 10, 2009 10:17 > > > AM > > > > > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: > > > > wisteria/lighting > > > > > previous > > > > > > > question/response revisited > > > > > > > > > > > > > > << When you say "two strips" do > > > you > > > > have > > > > > two 4' long two-bulb fixtures > > > > > > > already or something else?>> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > i have two 4' single bulb strip > > > lights. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> What kind of lighting do you > > > > currently > > > > > have? Look at the bulbs and > > > > > > > >> there should be some kind of > > > > writing on > > > > > one of the ends. Give us > > > > > > > >> that info if you cannot > > > decipher > > > > it > > > > > yourself.<< > > > > > > > > > > > > > > one bulb is a f40 t10 > > > > > > > the other one is a sylvania daylight > > > bulb > > > > also > > > > > f40 > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> It's probably 21" tall, since > > > a > > > > common > > > > > measurement for a 75G is > > > > > > > >> 48"x18"x21" Tall.>> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > it is 21 inches tall > > > > > > > > > > > > > > erika wilmington de usa > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ------------------------------------ > > > > > > > > > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it > > > when > > > > replying, Thank > > > > > You. > > > > > > > > > > > > ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> > > > > > ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , > > > .·´¯`·..><((((º> > > > > > PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT > > > that > > > > is NOT > > > > > important to the reply & if CHANGING the > > > TOPIC of > > > > the original message > > > > > MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject > > > (was > > > > re: old subject)" <- > > > > > > > > > > > > <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. > > > > > , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. > > > > > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this > > > matter. > > > > > > > > > > If you do not want all of the groups emails, > > > instead > > > > of unsubscribing, > > > > > you can change your delivery option by clicking > > > on > > > > "Edit My > > > > > Membership" on the home page. > > > > > > > > > > Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:aquaticlife-digest%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:aquaticlife-digest%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > to receive the digest, which includes up to 25 > > > posts > > > > at a time in a > > > > > single email > > > > > > > > > > Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:aquaticlife-nomail%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:aquaticlife-nomail%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > for the No E-Mail option where you will still be > > > able > > > > to read messages > > > > > on the group and post replies. > > > > > > > > > > Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:aquaticlife-normal%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:aquaticlife-normal%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > to receive individual e-mails.Yahoo! Groups > > > Links > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > AquaticLife-fullfeatured@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife-fullfeatured%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife-fullfeatured%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ------------------------------------ > > > > > > > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, > > > > Thank You. > > > > > > > ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> > > > > ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> > > > > PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that > > > is > > > > NOT important to > > > > the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY > > > > the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" > > > <- > > > > > > > <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. > > > > , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. > > > > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. > > > > > > > > If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead > > > of > > > > unsubscribing, you > > > > can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit > > > My > > > > Membership" on the > > > > home page. > > > > > > > > Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:aquaticlife-digest%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:aquaticlife-digest%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > to receive the digest, which > > > > includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email > > > > > > > > Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:aquaticlife-nomail%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:aquaticlife-nomail%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > for the No E-Mail option where > > > > you will still be able to read messages on the group > > > and > > > > post replies. > > > > > > > > Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:aquaticlife-normal%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:aquaticlife-normal%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > to receive individual > > > > e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ------------------------------------ > > > > > > > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, > > > > Thank You. > > > > > > > ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> > > > > ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> > > > > PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that > > > is > > > > NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC > > > of > > > > the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> > > > i.e. "new > > > > subject (was re: old subject)" <- > > > > > > > <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. > > > > , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. > > > > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. > > > > > > > > If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead > > > of > > > > unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by clicking on > > > > "Edit My Membership" on the home page. > > > > > > > > Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:aquaticlife-digest%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:aquaticlife-digest%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > to receive the digest, which includes up to 25 posts > > > at a > > > > time in a single email > > > > > > > > Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:aquaticlife-nomail%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:aquaticlife-nomail%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > for the No E-Mail option where you will still be able > > > to > > > > read messages on the group and post replies. > > > > > > > > Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:aquaticlife-normal%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:aquaticlife-normal%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > to receive individual e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > > > > > > > AquaticLife-fullfeatured@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife-fullfeatured%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife-fullfeatured%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ------------------------------------ > > > > > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, > > > Thank You. > > > ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> > > > ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> > > > PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT > > > important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original > > > message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old > > > subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. > > > , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. > > > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. > > > > > > If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of > > > unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by clicking on > > > "Edit My Membership" on the home page. > > > > > > Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:aquaticlife-digest%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:aquaticlife-digest%40yahoogroups.com> > > > to receive the digest, which > > > includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email > > > > > > Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:aquaticlife-nomail%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:aquaticlife-nomail%40yahoogroups.com> > > > for the No E-Mail option where > > > you will still be able to read messages on the group and post > > > replies. > > > > > > Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:aquaticlife-normal%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:aquaticlife-normal%40yahoogroups.com> > > > to receive individual > > > e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ------------------------------------ > > > > > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, > > > Thank You. > > > ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> > > > ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> > > > PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT > > > important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original > > > message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old > > > subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. > > > , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. > > > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. > > > > > > If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of > > > unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by clicking on > > > "Edit My Membership" on the home page. > > > > > > Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:aquaticlife-digest%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:aquaticlife-digest%40yahoogroups.com> > > > to receive the digest, which includes up to 25 posts at a time in a > > > single email > > > > > > Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:aquaticlife-nomail%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:aquaticlife-nomail%40yahoogroups.com> > > > for the No E-Mail option where you will still be able to read > > > messages on the group and post replies. > > > > > > Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:aquaticlife-normal%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:aquaticlife-normal%40yahoogroups.com> > > > to receive individual e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > > > > AquaticLife-fullfeatured@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife-fullfeatured%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife-fullfeatured%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > > > > > > > ------------------------------------ > > > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, > Thank You. > > ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , > > .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT > > that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the > > original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: > > old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , > > .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. > > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. > > > > If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of unsubscribing, > > you can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My > > Membership" on the home page. > > > > Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:aquaticlife-digest%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:aquaticlife-digest%40yahoogroups.com> to receive the digest, > > which includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email > > > > Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:aquaticlife-nomail%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:aquaticlife-nomail%40yahoogroups.com> for the No E-Mail option > > where you will still be able to read messages on the group and post > > replies. > > > > Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:aquaticlife-normal%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:aquaticlife-normal%40yahoogroups.com> to receive individual > > e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > ------------------------------------ > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. > ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> > PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to > the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the > SUBJECT > LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- > <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. > > If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of unsubscribing, you > can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the > home page. > > Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:aquaticlife-digest%40yahoogroups.com> to receive the digest, which > includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email > > Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:aquaticlife-nomail%40yahoogroups.com> for the No E-Mail option > where > you will still be able to read messages on the group and post replies. > > Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:aquaticlife-normal%40yahoogroups.com> to receive individual > e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 44461	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 11/12/2009
Subject: Re: Question about eating snails

Okay back to eating snails (darn people hijacking my thread ;) LOL). Could it be that it's safer to eat snails even if you use dechlor because you only eat the foot of the snail and not the intestines, etc? Just a thought, Amber Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > > Are you sure that wasn't a DERF shirt > http://www.zazzle.com/derf_tshirt-235652671296243847 > <http://www.zazzle.com/derf_tshirt-235652671296243847> and you were just > looking in the mirror? This one even comes with your picture on it. ;-) > > Kind of like them people who have REKCUS written on their foreheads. ;-) > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right > side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On > Behalf Of Steve Szabo > Sent: Tuesday, November 10, 2009 10:08 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Question about eating snails > > Amber, > > No, I don't have to. Some of the shirts come with names already on them. > That one happened to be Fred. He had his name embroidered right over his > left pocket. They are hard to come by. I've only seen them at Sallie's. > > \\Steve// > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On > Behalf Of Amber Berglund > Sent: Tuesday, November 10, 2009 9:20 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Question about eating snails > > Actually no, but that one looks good ;) LOL Wait... you name your shirts? > What's your favorite shirt named right now? LOL > > Amber > > Steve Szabo wrote: > > > > Ws this the recipe? > > > > ESCARGOTS A LA FETTUCCINI > > > > 24 (7 1/2 oz. can) very lg. sized escargots, drained > > 4 tbsp. butter > > 1-2 garlic cloves, minced > > 1/2 pt. heavy cream > > 1/2 c. grated Parmesan cheese > > 1 pkg. frozen peas > > Salt and pepper > > 1 lb. fettuccini > > > > Drain escargots, melt butter in heavy saucepan and sauté escargot and > > garlic for 3 minutes. Pour in heavy cream and simmer until mixture > > thickens slightly. Add grated cheese, peas and seasonings. Cook a few > > minutes longer until escargots and sauce are hot. Do not overcook. > > > > While sauce is cooking place fettuccini in a pot of boiling (salted) > > water. > > Cook 3-4 minutes. Drain pasta and mix with escargots sauce until pasta > > is well coated. > > > > I once had a shirt named Fred. > > > > \\Steve// > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On Behalf Of Amber Berglund > > Sent: Tuesday, November 10, 2009 5:17 PM > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Question about eating snails > > > > Actually if you look on applesnail.net they list recipe's for eating > > your snails, LOL. > > And do dead snails even have guts? LOL. > > There are 3 drivers (for now, soon to be 4 hopefully), so they'll have > > to narrow it down by names, so I'll have to wear a name tag that says, > > "Hello my name is Fred" or something, LOL. > > > > Amber > > > > Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > > > > > > Ummmm.. you (or rather your friend) shouldn't do this. Most dechlor > > > products EXPLICITLY advise against eating ornamental fish (and > > > probably critters too) that are kept in waters treated with a > > > dechlor product. I think the chemicals used in dechlors cause health > > > problems, although I doubt that five snails would matter. I think > > > it's more for fish farms that > > might > > > think about using Sodium Thiosulphate as their dechlor if they did > > > not have a natural water source for the fish stock ponds. > > > > > > As far as the different taste, could it be like other meats... > > chicken for > > > example, where the dark meat is much different in taste and texture > > > than white meat? > > > > > > Also, for your health, please do not post this on the Applesnail.net > > > forums.. you know them folks are zealous about their snails. They > > > might hunt you down and throw dead snail guts on you. LOL They might > > > even > > form a > > > new radical group called PeTS... People for the Ethical Treatment of > > > Snails. > > > LOL And if they can't find you, they might go after every other > > > delivery truck on your island. BTW... are you the only driver or is > > > Ketchikan big enough for two FedEx trucks? LOL > > > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>>> > > > (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the > > > right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by > > > Year, > > Month) > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On Behalf Of Amber Berglund > > > Sent: Tuesday, November 10, 2009 10:59 AM > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > Subject: [AquaticLife] Question about eating snails > > > > > > Okay so a friend of mine was inquiring about my mystery snails for > > eating > > > purposes. Since I have a mass quantity of the happy little guys and > > gals I > > > figured I would give him all my large snails that are fully grown. > > > He ended up with 5 and cooked them up as spaghetti. Now my question > > > is this; why would the dark footed (purple) mystery snails taste > > > much saltier > > than the > > > ones with white feet? > > > > > > Sorry to offend anyone at the idea of eating snails, I've had to do > > > a survival trip in my lifetime and had to survive off of limpets, so > > > I'm sure they taste similar to limpets when cooked up, so it doesn't > > > really > > offend > > > me, LOL. > > > Not to mention the little guys are threatening to breed me out of > > > house and home ;) LOL. > > > > > > Amber > > > > > > > > > ------------------------------------ > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. > ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> > PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to > the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the > SUBJECT > LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- > <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. > > If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of unsubscribing, you > can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the > home page. > > Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:aquaticlife-digest%40yahoogroups.com> to receive the digest, which > includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email > > Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:aquaticlife-nomail%40yahoogroups.com> for the No E-Mail option > where > you will still be able to read messages on the group and post replies. > > Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:aquaticlife-normal%40yahoogroups.com> to receive individual > e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links > > ------------------------------------ > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. > ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> > PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to > the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the > SUBJECT > LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- > <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. > > If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of unsubscribing, you > can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the > home page. > > Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:aquaticlife-digest%40yahoogroups.com> to receive the digest, which > includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email > > Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:aquaticlife-nomail%40yahoogroups.com> for the No E-Mail option > where > you will still be able to read messages on the group and post replies. > > Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:aquaticlife-normal%40yahoogroups.com> to receive individual > e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 44462	From: bill 1433	Date: 11/12/2009
Subject: Re: wisteria/lighting previous question/response revisited

Hi Amber, The links Len provided are very close BUT it's the ends of the tube or pins that worry me. They are very close but "how"? Meaning this buying the tube, ok by mail? Now what if it doesn't work? Rreturn a $10.00 tube the postage would cost more. I'm trying to work backward now from Len's link, and get a manufacture so I can buy around here. Also I'm getting made enough now to scrape the whole thing and just get a new All-Glass cover then maybe one of these: http://www.drsfostersmith.com/product/prod_display.cfm?c=3578+3733+9654+9871&pcatid=9871 This link is not pointing to the exact Coralife product I want at Doctors its # apn-16981, if you have their catalog but I can't make it come up on search at their site. It is a single rated at 65 watts and is 24". Bill --- On Thu, 11/12/09, Amber Berglund <arberglund@...> wrote: > From: Amber Berglund <arberglund@...> > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: wisteria/lighting previous question/response revisited > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Date: Thursday, November 12, 2009, 12:59 PM > Bill does have T-4's if I remember > correctly, maybe one of those 20watt > bulbs will work for him and provide more lumens than his > current bulbs do. > Did you check those links out Bill? ;) > > Amber > > Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > > > > Just because a fixture currently has a T-8 or T-10, > does not mean it > > cannot > > use a T-12, and vice versa. They are all medium bi-pin > bulbs, meaning they > > all will fit and work UNLESS the reflector is so tight > that a T-12 cannot > > fit inside the fixture but I haven't seen this as a > problem in the past. > > Usually, going with a T-8 or T-10, instead of a T-12 > will give more lumens > > but in the case of this particular sized bulb, the > T-12 may be the better > > option. Of course, we still need more details on > Bill's exact bulb. We > > still do not know anything except that it's 17 > watts... nothing about > > lumens, K rating or anything else for comparison > purposes. As Johnny 5 > > once > > said... "Need more input!" (I have no clue why that > OLD movie line popped > > into my head and I can't blame it on drugs since I > didn't/don't do them... > > and as far as I know, beer doesn't cause acid > flashbacks. LOL > > http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Short_Circuit > > <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Short_Circuit>) > > > > Now... thinking back a little. Bill may have T-4's and > if he does, those > > use the miniature bi-pin base and the above larger > T-#'s with medium > > bi-pin > > base would not work. If this is the case, there are > other options > > listed on > > this page... > > http://www.servicelighting.com/T4-Straight-Linear-Fluorescent-Light-Bulbs > > > <http://www.servicelighting.com/T4-Straight-Linear-Fluorescent-Light-Bulbs> > > including this 20W, 6400K, 1340 Lumens bulb - > > http://www.servicelighting.com/Bulbrite-85220-F20T4-64K-F20T4-D-T4-Straight- > > > <http://www.servicelighting.com/Bulbrite-85220-F20T4-64K-F20T4-D-T4-Straight-> > > Linear-Fluorescent-Light-Bulb, which sounds like a > pretty good bulb > > from the > > specs and actually provides more lumens than any of > the T-12's previously > > listed. > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are > listed on the right > > side, alphabetically under Labels and also under > Archives by Year, Month) > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On > > Behalf Of Amber Berglund > > Sent: Thursday, November 12, 2009 10:29 AM > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: wisteria/lighting > previous > > question/response > > revisited > > > > Bill has smaller bulbs, I think they are not easy to > find in a higher > > wattage output, which is what he was looking for a few > months back. > > > > Amber > > > > Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > > > > > > I don't know what you mean by this. Please > elaborate. What size tube? > > > I posted about several different bulbs but all > were T-12's, which is > > > one of the most common sizes. > > > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>> > > (Links to any articles referenced in > > > above reply are listed on the right side, > alphabetically under Labels > > > and also under Archives by Year, Month) > > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On > Behalf Of bill 1433 > > > Sent: Thursday, November 12, 2009 8:59 AM > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: wisteria/lighting > previous > > > question/response revisited > > > > > > Yes Len, > > > > > > But its finding that size tube with more of > anything that's the problem. > > > > > > Bill > > > > > > --- On Wed, 11/11/09, Lenny V. aka GoldLenny > <GoldLenny@... > > > <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com> > > > <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com>> wrote: > > > > > > > From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@... > > > <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com> > > > <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com>> > > > > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: > wisteria/lighting previous > > > > question/response revisited > > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > Date: Wednesday, November 11, 2009, 5:22 PM > Well, if you only have > > > > 17W, then you could definitely do better > with the 20W, higher lumen, > > > > better K rating bulbs that I mentioned. > Considering the lumen > > > > ratings of fluorescent bulbs I've looked at, > your 17W bulbs might > > > > only have 500-700 lumens where the BEST 20W > bulb (below) has > > > > 1075 lumens so you > > > > could possibly increase your lighting by 50% > to 100% just by > > > > changing to that bulb. At least, with that > bulb, you'll be in the > > > > low-light range for plants on the 20G but > the 29G will need some work. > > > > > > > > Of course, you should find out what the > lumens and K ratings are on > > > > the bulbs you have so you'll know if you are > getting a small jump or > > > > a BIG jump in lighting just by changing your > bulbs. Check your local > > > > WalMart for bulbs. My nearby WalMart > SuperCenter has a really big > > > > assortment of fluorescent tubes and they > were cheaper than the Home > > > > Depot. > > > > > > > > Something else I'm thinking about for you is > going with 18" > > > > light-sticks on > > > > each end of your 29G tank or front or back > (back would hide it best > > > > but you decide your best aesthetics) and > you'd have to make a DIY > > > > reflector for it (white poster board and > scotch tape would work) and > > > > that would get more lighting down to the > bottom level plants in the > > > > 29G. > > > > > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>> > > (Links to any articles > > > > referenced in above reply are listed on the > right side, > > > > alphabetically under Labels and also under > Archives by Year, Month) > > > > > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] > > > > On > > > > Behalf Of bill 1433 > > > > Sent: Wednesday, November 11, 2009 3:42 PM > > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: > wisteria/lighting previous > > > > question/response revisited > > > > > > > > It is what it is type of thing Len. Site > says one thing but stamped > > > > or printed right on the tube is at 17 > watts. > > > > > > > > Bill > > > > > > > > --- On Wed, 11/11/09, Lenny V. aka GoldLenny > <GoldLenny@... > > > <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com> > > > <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com>> > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@... > > > <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com> > > > <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com>> > > > > > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: > wisteria/lighting > > > > previous > > > > > question/response revisited > > > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > Date: Wednesday, November 11, 2009, > 2:16 PM The > > > > problem might be this > > > > > statement in the description... > > > > > > > > > > "... Hoods include 8000ºK bulb... > ...20W, 24"..." > > > > > > > > > > That's getting into the higher > green/blue Kelvin > > > > range... > > > > > closer to the > > > > > 10,000K actinic type bulbs... than the > 5000K to 6500K > > > > "Daylight" bulbs > > > > > that provide full spectrum lighting. > It's also only > > > > a 20W bulb > > > > > (according to the DFS site, although > you stated it was > > > > only 17W so > > > > > double check this) so it's only 1WPG on > the 20G and > > > > only 0.69WPG on > > > > > the 29G. Of course, if the bulb puts > out a LOT more > > > > lumens (you would > > > > > have to do more checking up on the bulb > to find this), > > > > that would help > > > > > a little but not much. I think you need > at least > > > > 1WPG to have success > > > > > with low-light plants, although > floating plants like > > > > Anacharis, > > > > > Hornwort, Duckweed, etc., would be up > close to the > > > > light and benefit > > > > > from CO2 from the air and would do OK > with your > > > > lighting... but then > > > > > they would also block out the lighting > to the rest of > > > > the tank. > > > > > > > > > > I don't see a lot of options, as far as > T-8 bulbs are > > > > concerned for > > > > > this size fixture but I see a few > different T-12's... > > > > such as... > > > > > > > > > > (My rating is: GOOD - but see BETTER > and BEST options > > > > below... at > > > > > least as far as the bulbs on this site > are concerned) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > http://www.servicelighting.com/Sylvania-22119-F20T12-DSGN50-T12-Straig > > > <http://www.servicelighting.com/Sylvania-22119-F20T12-DSGN50-T12-Straig> > > > > > <http://www.servicelighting.com/Sylvania-22119-F20T12-DSGN50-T12-Strai > > > <http://www.servicelighting.com/Sylvania-22119-F20T12-DSGN50-T12-Strai> > > > g> > > > > > ht-Lin > > > > > ear-Fluorescent-Light-Bulb > > > > > > > > > > Light Output: 880 lumens > > > > > Refers to the literal measure of the > light-output of a > > > > particular > > > > > light bulb, measured in the number of > lumens. > > > > > > > > > > Energy Used: 20 watts > > > > > "Watts" is the term applied to the > amount of energy > > > > required and used > > > > > by a particular light bulb. It is an > international > > > > system unit of > > > > > power equal to one joule per second. > Contrary to > > > > popular belief, the > > > > > wattage of a bulb does not directly > measure the > > > > brightness; the > > > > > "lumens" of a light is what defines the > actual light > > > > output. > > > > > > > > > > Average Lifetime: 9,000 hours > > > > > This refers to an average lifetime > rating based on > > > > large quantities in > > > > > test groups. This testing takes into > account usage of > > > > 3 hours per > > > > > start for fluorescent lamps and 10 > hours per start for > > > > HID lamps. > > > > > > > > > > Bulb Type: T12 > > > > > The "Bulb Type" is typically a > combination of the > > > > style of bulb as > > > > > well as the width of the bulb. Usually, > the first > > > > couple letters will > > > > > indicate the type; "G" would indicate > "Globe", "PAR" > > > > would indicate > > > > > "Parabolic Reflector"... The numbers > indicate the > > > > diameter of the > > > > > light bulb in eighths of an inch; a > "G40" would be a > > > > "Globe" style > > > > > that is "5 inches" in diameter. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Base Type: Medium Bi-Pin > > > > > The "Base" of a light bulb is the part > that either > > > > screws or snaps > > > > > into a receptacle. Base Type > terminology may indicate > > > > common > > > > > descriptive words like "Medium" or > "Candelabra", or > > > > may even contain > > > > > numeric codes that signify size and > variety, like > > > > "E26" or "2GX13". > > > > > > > > > > Color Temperature: 5,000K > > > > > Correlated Color Temperature (CCT) is a > specification > > > > of the color > > > > > appearance of a lamp, relating its > color to that of a > > > > reference source > > > > > heated to a particular temperature, > measured in > > > > degrees Kelvin (K). It > > > > > generally measures the "warmth" or > "coolness" of light > > > > source > > > > > appearance. > > > > > > > > > > CRI: 90 > > > > > CRI refers to the "Color Rendering > Index" of a light > > > > bulb. > > > > > CRI measures a > > > > > light source and grades its ability to > render the > > > > color of objects > > > > > "correctly," as compared with a > reference source with > > > > comparable color > > > > > temperature. 100 is perfect rendering. > > > > > > > > > > Length: 24 inches > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > (BETTER - slightly higher lumens and > higher 6500K > > > > rating) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > http://www.servicelighting.com/Westinghouse-36516-F20T12-FS-T12-Straig > > > <http://www.servicelighting.com/Westinghouse-36516-F20T12-FS-T12-Straig> > > > > > <http://www.servicelighting.com/Westinghouse-36516-F20T12-FS-T12-Strai > > > <http://www.servicelighting.com/Westinghouse-36516-F20T12-FS-T12-Strai> > > > g> > > > > > ht-Lin > > > > > ear-Fluorescent-Light-Bulb > > > > > > > > > > Light Output: 900 lumens > > > > > Energy Used: 20 watts > > > > > Average Lifetime: 10,000 hours > > > > > Bulb Type: T12 > > > > > Base Type: Medium Bi-Pin > > > > > Color Temperature: 6,500K > > > > > CRI: 90 > > > > > Length: 24 inches > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > (BEST, of these three - around 20% > higher lumens and > > > > good 6,500K > > > > > rating, although it does have a lower > CRI rating.. but > > > > still > > > > > passing) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > http://www.servicelighting.com/Sylvania-22083-F20T12-D-T12-Straight-Li > > > <http://www.servicelighting.com/Sylvania-22083-F20T12-D-T12-Straight-Li> > > > > > <http://www.servicelighting.com/Sylvania-22083-F20T12-D-T12-Straight-L > > > <http://www.servicelighting.com/Sylvania-22083-F20T12-D-T12-Straight-L> > > > i> > > > > > near-F > > > > > luorescent-Light-Bulb > > > > > > > > > > Light Output: 1,075 lumens > > > > > Energy Used: 20 watts > > > > > Average Lifetime: 9,000 hours > > > > > Bulb Type: T12 > > > > > Base Type: Medium Bi-Pin > > > > > Color Temperature: 6,500K > > > > > CRI: 76 > > > > > Length: 24 inches > > > > > > > > > > Compare the above three to what is sold > as a > > > > plant/aquarium light by > > > > > the same company, which has a lower > lumens, MUCH lower > > > > CRI rating and > > > > > does not list the K rating other than > to say "Plant" > > > > which is a > > > > > subjective rating established by the > manufacturer. > > > > > > > > > > (WORST) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > http://www.servicelighting.com/Westinghouse-36411-F20T12-PL-T12-Straig > > > <http://www.servicelighting.com/Westinghouse-36411-F20T12-PL-T12-Straig> > > > > > <http://www.servicelighting.com/Westinghouse-36411-F20T12-PL-T12-Strai > > > <http://www.servicelighting.com/Westinghouse-36411-F20T12-PL-T12-Strai> > > > g> > > > > > ht-Lin > > > > > ear-Fluorescent-Light-Bulb > > > > > > > > > > Light Output: 700 lumens (over 30% less > lighting > > > > than the 1,075 > > > > > lumens bulb > > > > > above) > > > > > Energy Used: 20 watts > > > > > Average Lifetime: 10,000 hours > > > > > Bulb Type: T12 > > > > > Base Type: Medium Bi-Pin > > > > > Color: Plant > > > > > CRI: 61 > > > > > Length: 24 inches > > > > > > > > > > If any of the above have much better > lumens than your > > > > current > > > > > lighting... > > > > > and they all have better K ratings, > then any of them > > > > would be better > > > > > for you... but you would still be stuck > with only 20 > > > > watts but it's > > > > > the LUMENS and K rating that count more > than watts. > > > > You need to find > > > > > out the lumens on your bulb. Try to > find it on the > > > > DFS site and let > > > > > us know. > > > > > > > > > > You should look at the AHSupply.com > place for a > > > > retrofit kit so you > > > > > can use CFL's in your current hood. > That would > > > > probably be your least > > > > > expensive option. I know you don't like > electricity > > > > but I'm sure you > > > > > know someone that could do this for > you... on the > > > > cheap... or over a > > > > > 6-pack. > > > > > > > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > > > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>> > > (Links to > > > > any articles > > > > > referenced in above reply are listed on > the right > > > > side, alphabetically > > > > > under Labels and also under Archives by > Year, Month) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] > > > > > On > > > > > Behalf Of bill 1433 > > > > > Sent: Wednesday, November 11, 2009 9:33 > AM > > > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: > wisteria/lighting > > > > previous > > > > > question/response > > > > > revisited > > > > > > > > > > Hi \\Steve// > > > > > > > > > > At this point, and also to refresh your > mind, and > > > > anyone > > > > > else on the group > > > > > that may have interest. This all got > started with > > > > my > > > > > search for a tube that > > > > > would allow me more light output from > an All Glass > > > > Plastic > > > > > hood and light. > > > > > This unit comes with a "color type tube > at 17 watts > > > > that is > > > > > only 24 inches > > > > > long. This is for a 20/29-gallon tank. > I was stupid enough to buy > > > > > two of them, one for each tank. For > further inspection > > > > here > > > > > is the light: > > > > > > > > > > > > > http://www.drsfostersmith.com/product/prod_display.cfm?pcatid=13447 > > > <http://www.drsfostersmith.com/product/prod_display.cfm?pcatid=13447> > > > <http://www.drsfostersmith.com/product/prod_display.cfm?pcatid=13447 > > > <http://www.drsfostersmith.com/product/prod_display.cfm?pcatid=13447>> > > > > > > > > > > For those that would like to aggravate > themselves > > > > further, > > > > > I can also state > > > > > that these hoods are very conducive to > growing Black Algae! > > > > > > > > > > Summoning up, I should have only > purchased an > > > > All-Glass > > > > > cover and then > > > > > probably a double tube light of > sufficient wattage to > > > > bring > > > > > me up to the > > > > > recommended 2 or 3 watts per gallon. > > > > > > > > > > Ya live and learn, > > > > > > > > > > Bill > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > --- On Tue, 11/10/09, Steve Szabo > <steve@... > > > <mailto:steve%40familyszabo.com> > > > <mailto:steve%40familyszabo.com>> > > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > From: Steve Szabo <steve@... > > > <mailto:steve%40familyszabo.com> > > > <mailto:steve%40familyszabo.com>> > > > > > > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: > wisteria/lighting > > > > > previous > > > > > > question/response revisited > > > > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > Date: Tuesday, November 10, 2009, > 11:50 PM Bill, > > > > you > > > > > got it right! The > > > > > > T numbers represent the diameter > of the bulb in > > > > 1/8" > > > > > increments. A T4 > > > > > > is a bulb 1/2" in diameter, T5 is > 5/8", t8 is > > > > 1" and > > > > > a t12 is 1 1/2". > > > > > > As I recall, the F is the wattage > of the bulb. > > > > > > > > > > > > Lumens, not usually stated on the > bulb is the > > > > actual > > > > > amount of light > > > > > > coming from the bulb. It really > does not have > > > > anything > > > > > to do with > > > > > > watts, though more watts will give > you more > > > > lumens, > > > > > but, also the > > > > > > phosphors used in the bulb affect > the amount of > > > > lumen > > > > > output. Lumens > > > > > > and lux are often used > interchangeably, but they > > > > are > > > > > really different > > > > > > measurements. Lux is the measure > of illumination > > > > over > > > > > a given area. It > > > > > > may actually be more important to > aquarists > > > > raising > > > > > plants than the > > > > > > lumen output. Lux is what is > measured by a light > > > > > meter, for anyone who > > > > > > happens to know what they are--not > often seen > > > > with > > > > > today's cameras and > > > > > > photographers. > > > > > > > > > > > > Color temperature is important. > Average daylight > > > > > (except may in > > > > > > Amber's area where they have 6 > months of > > > > darkness) has > > > > > a color > > > > > > temperature of 5500-6000. > > > > > > An overcast day can have a color > temperature of > > > > 6500. > > > > > As mentioned > > > > > > earlier, plants need light in two > color > > > > spectrums, > > > > > and, actually they > > > > > > are rather narrow spans of > wavelengths they > > > > benefit > > > > > from. > > > > > > > > > > > > I thought I had a bookmark > explaining this, but > > > > I > > > > > can't find it > > > > > > quickly (over 400K of bookmarks, > and things have > > > > a > > > > > tendency to get > > > > > > lost), however, some judicial > Googling will gain > > > > you > > > > > the information. > > > > > > > > > > > > \\Steve// > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > > > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] > > > > > > On > > > > > > Behalf Of bill 1433 > > > > > > Sent: Tuesday, November 10, 2009 > 10:20 PM > > > > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: > wisteria/lighting > > > > > previous > > > > > > question/response revisited > > > > > > > > > > > > Yes, Amber > > > > > > > > > > > > It was I, looking for the original > information > > > > and > > > > > also looked back on > > > > > > \\Steve//'s post at group to try > and find. Ray > > > > had > > > > > mentioned all this > > > > > > the other day saying that he > thought the posting > > > > came > > > > > from \\Steve//. > > > > > > > > > > > > I was not successful in my search. > Also, for me > > > > the > > > > > most important > > > > > > part was a link to a chart which > showed you > > > > exactly, > > > > > or explained > > > > > > exactly the "T" > > > > > > factor stands for. For instance, > T-4 would be a > > > > tube > > > > > that is a half > > > > > > inch wide, or close to > it-----------I think. > > > > All > > > > > this is my own > > > > > > fault. In my interest to acquire > and learn > > > > about > > > > > lighting,I went > > > > > > through and studied the applied > links but being > > > > > ol'bill, I never > > > > > > bookmarked them. > > > > > > Then to further > > > > > > compound the problem, I deleted > the original > > > > message > > > > > that it came > > > > > > from. In hind-sight you could > probably chalk > > > > this > > > > > all up to felonious > > > > > > stupidity on my part. > > > > > > > > > > > > Bill---where its always a good day > if I learn > > > > > something new! > > > > > > > > > > > > --- On Tue, 11/10/09, Amber > Berglund <arberglund@... > > > <mailto:arberglund%40gmail.com> > > > <mailto:arberglund%40gmail.com>> > > > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > From: Amber Berglund <arberglund@... > > > <mailto:arberglund%40gmail.com> > > > <mailto:arberglund%40gmail.com>> > > > > > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: > wisteria/lighting > > > > > previous > > > > > > question/response revisited > > > > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > Date: Tuesday, November 10, 2009, > 9:30 PM > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I believe it was Steve who posted > a link about > > > > lumens > > > > > months back when > > > > > > (I think it was maybe Bill asking) > about lighting > > > > for > > > > > planted > > > > > > aquariums. > > > > > > Plants require 2 different > spectrums of light to > > > > > properly produce > > > > > > either leaves or flowers (red is > more for flower > > > > > production and blue > > > > > > is more for growth, but for the > best growing you > > > > want > > > > > a mixture of > > > > > > BOTH colors). > > > > > > So in reality you would want a > light that appears > > > > more > > > > > brown/reddish > > > > > > in coloring and a blue/white > coloring as well, > > > > but > > > > > they now have bulbs > > > > > > that have BOTH spectrums built in > (I'm sure they > > > > don't > > > > > work as well as > > > > > > it would to have 2 different bulbs > one mostly red > > > > and > > > > > the other mostly > > > > > > blue on the color spectrum). > > > > > > Let me see if I still have the > link bookmarked. > > > > > > What I was trying to say is that > Kelvin does not > > > > tell > > > > > you what color > > > > > > spectrum the light REALLY is, it's > actually > > > > measuring > > > > > it's light > > > > > > output color according to how the > human eyes > > > > perceive > > > > > it. So 6500 > > > > > > kelvin in general is what most > plants will > > > > prefer > > > > > because that is a > > > > > > mixture of both red and blue > spectrums (In MOST > > > > bulbs) > > > > > unfortunately > > > > > > not all light bulb manufactures > have to use the > > > > exact > > > > > same chart for > > > > > > their colors, so they will have > different colors > > > > than > > > > > another bulb > > > > > > that says it's 6500 Kelvin. what > you really need > > > > to > > > > > read is the color > > > > > > chart on the box, not what lumens > it says it is. > > > > > > (still searching for link, LOL). > > > > > > > > > > > > This isn't the right link but it > discusses the > > > > > kelvin/lumen problems a > > > > > > little bit, still looking for the > link that > > > > showed the > > > > > charts and what > > > > > > to look for in the color charts. > > > > > > http://www.americanaquariumproducts.com/Aquarium_Lighting.html > > > <http://www.americanaquariumproducts.com/Aquarium_Lighting.html> > > > <http://www.americanaquariumproducts.com/Aquarium_Lighting.html > > > <http://www.americanaquariumproducts.com/Aquarium_Lighting.html>> > > > > > > > > > > > > Will post again when I find the > other link with > > > > chart > > > > > examples. > > > > > > > > > > > > Amber > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I think it would be false > advertising or > > > > > possibly > > > > > > mis-advertising (if they > > > > > > > do not know any better) if a > company lists > > > > their > > > > > bulbs > > > > > > as 6500K and they > > > > > > > aren't. The Kelvin scale, > just like Watts > > > > and > > > > > Lumens, > > > > > > are ALL > > > > > > > universal and > > > > > > > scientifically measurable > scales BUT, as I > > > > > showed > > > > > > below, not all 40 watt > > > > > > > bulbs put out the same amount > of light > > > > (lumens) > > > > > or in > > > > > > the same color > > > > > > > spectrum (Kelvin rating). All > 40 watt > > > > bulbs, > > > > > whether > > > > > > incandescent, > > > > > > > fluorescent, CFL, LED, > Halogen, etc.... ALL > > > > use > > > > > > only/around 40 watts of > > > > > > > electricity but their light > output can vary > > > > > > dramatically. This is why > > > > > > > fluorescent bulbs are so much > more > > > > efficient > > > > > than > > > > > > incandescent bulbs and > > > > > > > CFL's are even more > efficient... as a 40W > > > > > fluorescent > > > > > > bulb puts out a LOT > > > > > > > more light (lumens) than a 40 > watt > > > > incandescent > > > > > bulb > > > > > > and a 40W CFL > > > > > > > puts out > > > > > > > more light (lumens) than a > 40W fluorescent > > > > bulb. > > > > > This > > > > > > is why the OLD > > > > > > > "Watts > > > > > > > Per Gallon" rule simply does > not work any > > > > more. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > BUT.. if three different > companies are > > > > selling > > > > > > standard T-10 fluorescent > > > > > > > bulbs with the same exact > rating of 40W, > > > > 3550 > > > > > lumens > > > > > > and 6500K > > > > > > > rating... all > > > > > > > three of those bulbs should > be VERY SIMILAR > > > > if > > > > > not > > > > > > identical in the > > > > > > > way they > > > > > > > appear to our eyes (subject > to our own > > > > degree of > > > > > color > > > > > > blindness, of > > > > > > > course!) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > In the past, things like > "soft white", > > > > "warm > > > > > white", > > > > > > "daylight", "plant > > > > > > > grow", etc., type terms were > used and are > > > > still > > > > > used > > > > > > but those are just > > > > > > > simple words (not subject to > a scientific > > > > scale) > > > > > to > > > > > > describe the Kelvin > > > > > > > rating ranges but lumens are > just as > > > > important > > > > > since a > > > > > > bulb could have a > > > > > > > 6500K rating with only 2200 > lumens where > > > > another > > > > > bulb > > > > > > could have a 6500K > > > > > > > rating and 3550 or 3700 > lumens and that > > > > bulb > > > > > would put > > > > > > out over 50% more > > > > > > > light (lumens) in the same > color spectrum > > > > > (Kelvin > > > > > > rating) so it would be a > > > > > > > much more cost effective bulb > if it cost > > > > the > > > > > same > > > > > > amount or only a little > > > > > > > more. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I'm slightly confused about > the "red and > > > > blue > > > > > light > > > > > > for your plants" as > > > > > > > those two colors are on > opposite ends of > > > > the > > > > > Kelvin > > > > > > Scale with reds and > > > > > > > ambers in the lower numbers > and greens and > > > > blues > > > > > in > > > > > > the higher numbers. I > > > > > > > think this is why you would > want a > > > > mid-range > > > > > (5000K to > > > > > > 6500K) bulb as > > > > > > > those > > > > > > > are generally considered > "full spectrum" or > > > > > "daylight" > > > > > > bulbs. Here's a > > > > > > > color picture of the Kelvin > Scale, > > > > > > > http://www.bltdirect.com/images/colour-temperature.jpg > > > <http://www.bltdirect.com/images/colour-temperature.jpg> > > > <http://www.bltdirect.com/images/colour-temperature.jpg > > > <http://www.bltdirect.com/images/colour-temperature.jpg>> > > > > > > > > > > > > > <http://www.bltdirect.com/images/colour-temperature.jpg > > > <http://www.bltdirect.com/images/colour-temperature.jpg> > > > <http://www.bltdirect.com/images/colour-temperature.jpg > > > <http://www.bltdirect.com/images/colour-temperature.jpg>>> > > > > > > and you can > > > > > > > visually > > > > > > > see that the 5000K to 6500K > range is all > > > > about > > > > > the > > > > > > same "color". I think > > > > > > > this is also why Actinic > bulbs are usually > > > > higher > > > > > and > > > > > > closer to the 10000K > > > > > > > range and up... apparently, > the Kelvin > > > > lighting > > > > > scale > > > > > > can go up to 20,000K > > > > > > > (according to this article > about Reef Tanks > > > > > > > > > > > http://nh.craigslist.org/for/1423072406.html > > <http://nh.craigslist.org/for/1423072406.html> > > > <http://nh.craigslist.org/for/1423072406.html > > <http://nh.craigslist.org/for/1423072406.html>> > > > > > > > <http://nh.craigslist.org/for/1423072406.html > > <http://nh.craigslist.org/for/1423072406.html> > > > <http://nh.craigslist.org/for/1423072406.html > > <http://nh.craigslist.org/for/1423072406.html>>> > on, > > > > > of > > > > > > all places, > > > > > > > Craigslist). > > > > > > > Here is the page that that > the above photo > > > > link > > > > > came > > > > > > from and it has a > > > > > > > chart > > > > > > > that also explains things a > little more also > > > > and > > > > > talks > > > > > > about the CRI, yet > > > > > > > another lighting term (Color > Rendition > > > > Index). > > > > > > > http://www.bltdirect.com/lampColourTemperatures.php > > <http://www.bltdirect.com/lampColourTemperatures.php> > > > <http://www.bltdirect.com/lampColourTemperatures.php > > <http://www.bltdirect.com/lampColourTemperatures.php>> > > > > > > > <http://www.bltdirect.com/lampColourTemperatures.php > > <http://www.bltdirect.com/lampColourTemperatures.php> > > > <http://www.bltdirect.com/lampColourTemperatures.php > > <http://www.bltdirect.com/lampColourTemperatures.php>>> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > > > > > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>> > > > > > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>>> (Links > > > > > to any articles referenced in > > > > > > > above reply are > > > > > > listed on the right > > > > > > > side, alphabetically under > Labels and also > > > > under > > > > > > Archives by Year, Month) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > > > > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On > > > > > Behalf Of Amber Berglund > > > > > > > Sent: Tuesday, November 10, > 2009 4:22 PM > > > > > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] > Re: > > > > wisteria/lighting > > > > > > previous > > > > > > > question/response > > > > > > > revisited > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Another thing to consider is > one light > > > > company's > > > > > 6500 > > > > > > kelvin rating > > > > > > > may not > > > > > > > be identical to another light > bulb from a > > > > > different > > > > > > company that's > > > > > > > rated the > > > > > > > same. The important thing to > look at is the > > > > > color > > > > > > chart they show on the > > > > > > > boxes, you want more red and > blue light for > > > > your > > > > > > plants, green is not > > > > > > > useful > > > > > > > or harmful as the plants > reflect the light > > > > back > > > > > (makes > > > > > > them appear more > > > > > > > green but does nothing else > for them). The > > > > > kelvin > > > > > > rating is based on our > > > > > > > eyes and how they perceive > color, so each > > > > > company > > > > > > doesn't have to be > > > > > > > identical, perhaps some day > they will have > > > > a > > > > > universal > > > > > > way to measure > > > > > > > light > > > > > > > spectrums on bulbs that is > much less > > > > confusing. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Amber > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Lenny V. aka GoldLenny > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > OK. So you have a total > of 80 watts > > > > right > > > > > now, > > > > > > which is just over 1 > > > > > > > > WPG, which means you > only have enough > > > > > lighting > > > > > > for low-light, easy to > > > > > > > > grow plants. See my blog > article > > > > "Planted > > > > > Tank: > > > > > > So You Want A Planted > > > > > > > > Tank" for links to lists > of low-light, > > > > easy > > > > > to > > > > > > grow plants that will > > > > > > > > do OK in your tank. You > should replace > > > > > those > > > > > > tubes at least yearly... > > > > > > > > although some say every > six months. As > > > > far > > > > > as I > > > > > > know, a 40W bulb is > > > > > > > > the highest wattage made > for this type > > > > of > > > > > > bulb/fixture right now but > > > > > > > > you can increase your > lighting > > > > > > > > (lumens) and K (Kelvin) > rating. See > > > > below. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > NOTE - below links are > for > > > > > example/informational > > > > > > purposes only, as I > > > > > > > > know nothing about the > sites. God... > > > > did I > > > > > just > > > > > > say that? Do I really > > > > > > > > have to add disclaimers > to my posts > > > > now? LOL > > > > > Just > > > > > > laughing at myself. > > > > > > > > LOL > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > This may be your > Sylvania bulb... > > > > > > > > > > > http://www.lightbulbemporium.com/proddetail.asp?prod=F40/EX50 > > > <http://www.lightbulbemporium.com/proddetail.asp?prod=F40/EX50> > > > <http://www.lightbulbemporium.com/proddetail.asp?prod=F40/EX50 > > > <http://www.lightbulbemporium.com/proddetail.asp?prod=F40/EX50>> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > <http://www.lightbulbemporium.com/proddetail.asp?prod=F40/EX50 > > > <http://www.lightbulbemporium.com/proddetail.asp?prod=F40/EX50> > > > <http://www.lightbulbemporium.com/proddetail.asp?prod=F40/EX50 > > > <http://www.lightbulbemporium.com/proddetail.asp?prod=F40/EX50>>> > > > > > > > > > > > <http://www.lightbulbemporium.com/proddetail.asp?prod=F40/EX50 > > > <http://www.lightbulbemporium.com/proddetail.asp?prod=F40/EX50> > > > <http://www.lightbulbemporium.com/proddetail.asp?prod=F40/EX50 > > > <http://www.lightbulbemporium.com/proddetail.asp?prod=F40/EX50>> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > <http://www.lightbulbemporium.com/proddetail.asp?prod=F40/EX50 > > > <http://www.lightbulbemporium.com/proddetail.asp?prod=F40/EX50> > > > <http://www.lightbulbemporium.com/proddetail.asp?prod=F40/EX50 > > > <http://www.lightbulbemporium.com/proddetail.asp?prod=F40/EX50>>>> > > > > > > and if > > > > > > > > it is, then it's the > same ratings as > > > > the > > > > > specs in > > > > > > the T-10 bulb that I > > > > > > > > copy/pasted below, which > is a pretty > > > > good > > > > > bulb > > > > > > with higher lumens and > > > > > > > > the higher K rating, > although not a > > > > 6500K > > > > > rated > > > > > > bulb. At the bottom of > > > > > > > > this page, there was a > link to this > > > > bulb... > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > http://www.lightbulbemporium.com/maxlite_51204_ml_f40t10_850_rscg.as > > > <http://www.lightbulbemporium.com/maxlite_51204_ml_f40t10_850_rscg.as> > > > > > <http://www.lightbulbemporium.com/maxlite_51204_ml_f40t10_850_rscg.as > > > <http://www.lightbulbemporium.com/maxlite_51204_ml_f40t10_850_rscg.as>> > > > > > > > p > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > <http://www.lightbulbemporium.com/maxlite_51204_ml_f40t10_850_rscg.a > > > <http://www.lightbulbemporium.com/maxlite_51204_ml_f40t10_850_rscg.a> > > > <http://www.lightbulbemporium.com/maxlite_51204_ml_f40t10_850_rscg.a > > > <http://www.lightbulbemporium.com/maxlite_51204_ml_f40t10_850_rscg.a>> > > > > > > > sp> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > <http://www.lightbulbemporium.com/maxlite_51204_ml_f40t10_850_rscg.a > > > <http://www.lightbulbemporium.com/maxlite_51204_ml_f40t10_850_rscg.a> > > > <http://www.lightbulbemporium.com/maxlite_51204_ml_f40t10_850_rscg.a > > > <http://www.lightbulbemporium.com/maxlite_51204_ml_f40t10_850_rscg.a>> > > > > > > > sp > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > <http://www.lightbulbemporium.com/maxlite_51204_ml_f40t10_850_rscg.a > > > <http://www.lightbulbemporium.com/maxlite_51204_ml_f40t10_850_rscg.a> > > > <http://www.lightbulbemporium.com/maxlite_51204_ml_f40t10_850_rscg.a > > > <http://www.lightbulbemporium.com/maxlite_51204_ml_f40t10_850_rscg.a>> > > > > > > > sp> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > which > > > > > > > > has an even higher lumen > rating of > > > > 3700, > > > > > although > > > > > > not much higher than > > > > > > > > the 3550 rating but > every little bit > > > > helps > > > > > > especially since the > > > > > > > > MaxLite bulb was a lower > price than > > > > the > > > > > Sylvania > > > > > > bulb. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > As you will see on this > page > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > http://www.lightbulbsdirect.com/Merchant2/merchant.mvc?page=001/CTGY > > > <http://www.lightbulbsdirect.com/Merchant2/merchant.mvc?page=001/CTGY> > > > > > <http://www.lightbulbsdirect.com/Merchant2/merchant.mvc?page=001/CTGY > > > <http://www.lightbulbsdirect.com/Merchant2/merchant.mvc?page=001/CTGY>> > > > > > > > /F > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > <http://www.lightbulbsdirect.com/Merchant2/merchant.mvc?page=001/CTG > > > <http://www.lightbulbsdirect.com/Merchant2/merchant.mvc?page=001/CTG> > > > <http://www.lightbulbsdirect.com/Merchant2/merchant.mvc?page=001/CTG > > > <http://www.lightbulbsdirect.com/Merchant2/merchant.mvc?page=001/CTG>> > > > > > > > Y/F> > > > > > > > > S+Fluo > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > <http://www.lightbulbsdirect.com/Merchant2/merchant.mvc?page=001/CTG > > > <http://www.lightbulbsdirect.com/Merchant2/merchant.mvc?page=001/CTG> > > > <http://www.lightbulbsdirect.com/Merchant2/merchant.mvc?page=001/CTG > > > <http://www.lightbulbsdirect.com/Merchant2/merchant.mvc?page=001/CTG>> > > > > > > > Y/ > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > <http://www.lightbulbsdirect.com/Merchant2/merchant.mvc?page=001/CTG > > > <http://www.lightbulbsdirect.com/Merchant2/merchant.mvc?page=001/CTG> > > > <http://www.lightbulbsdirect.com/Merchant2/merchant.mvc?page=001/CTG > > > <http://www.lightbulbsdirect.com/Merchant2/merchant.mvc?page=001/CTG>> > > > > > > > Y/> > > > > > > > > FS+Fluo> > > > > > > > > rescent > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > The second bulb down > would be similar > > > > to > > > > > yours, > > > > > > except we do not know > > > > > > > > the lumen or color > spectrum rating on > > > > your > > > > > bulb, > > > > > > unless that link I > > > > > > > > gave above is actually > your bulb and > > > > then > > > > > it > > > > > > would be the same as this > > > > > > > > one. The specs on it > are: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > T-10 Fluorescent > > > > > > > > 40 Watts > > > > > > > > Length: 48" > > > > > > > > Medium Bi-Pin Base > > > > > > > > Color: 5000K > Temperature > > > > > > > > Initial Lumens: 3550 > > > > > > > > CRI: 84 > > > > > > > > Average Life: 20,000 > Hours > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > The Color spectrum of > 5000K (Kelvin) is > > > > OK > > > > > but > > > > > > 6500K would be much > > > > > > > better. > > > > > > > > The Lumens of 3550 is > the actual amount > > > > of > > > > > > *light* > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > The next bulb down from > that one is a > > > > T-12, > > > > > which > > > > > > will also fit in > > > > > > > > your fixture but they > are bigger > > > > diameter > > > > > bulbs > > > > > > and this one actually > > > > > > > > puts out less light > (lumens). Here are > > > > the > > > > > > specs: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > T-12 Fluorescent > > > > > > > > 40 Watts > > > > > > > > Length: 48" > > > > > > > > Base: Medium Bi-Pin > Base > > > > > > > > Initial Lumens: 2200 > > > > > > > > Average Life: 20,000 > Hours > > > > > > > > Color Temperature: > 5000K > > > > > > > > CRI: 92 > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > It has the same Color > spectrum but > > > > only > > > > > 2200 > > > > > > lumens so the above T-10 > > > > > > > > bulb has around 50% more > lumens > > > > (light) > > > > > coming > > > > > > out of it. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Now, if you scroll down > to the second > > > > from > > > > > the > > > > > > bottom on the page, > > > > > > > > you'll see the Verilux > Instant-Sun > > > > T-12 > > > > > bulb > > > > > > which has a higher Kelvin > > > > > > > > rating but it doesn't > list the lumens > > > > so > > > > > this > > > > > > needs to be checked out > > > > > > > > further. While the > higher K rating is > > > > good, > > > > > if it > > > > > > goes back down to > > > > > > > > only 2200 lumens, > instead of the 3550 > > > > lumens > > > > > of > > > > > > the first referenced > > > > > > > > bulb above, then I would > probably go > > > > with > > > > > the > > > > > > 3550 lumens, 5000K bulb > > > > > > > > over the 6280K bulb if > the lumens were > > > > a > > > > > LOT > > > > > > less. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > (START SNIP) > > > > > > > > Engineered to reproduce > all the colors > > > > and > > > > > > balance of natural light, > > > > > > > > VeriluxR full spectrum > fluorescent > > > > tubes > > > > > feature > > > > > > Trucolite Phosphor > > > > > > > > TechnologyT which > includes the use of > > > > a > > > > > stable, > > > > > > custom blend of earth > > > > > > > > phosphors that create > bright, balanced > > > > full > > > > > > spectrum light. > > > > > > > > T-12 Fluorescent > > > > > > > > 40 Watts > > > > > > > > Length: 48" > > > > > > > > Color Temperature: > 6280K > > > > > > > > CRI: 94 > > > > > > > > Medium Bi-Pin Base > > > > > > > > (END SNIP) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > So, as you can see, > there's a few > > > > things to > > > > > look > > > > > > for when shopping for > > > > > > > > new replacement bulbs. > Look for the > > > > 5000K > > > > > to > > > > > > 6500K bulbs with the > > > > > > > > higher lumen rating for > the dollar and > > > > you > > > > > should > > > > > > be good. Note that a > > > > > > > > 3550 or 3700 lumen bulb > will put out > > > > nearly > > > > > twice > > > > > > as much light as a > > > > > > > > 2000 lumen bulb so it > can be easy to > > > > > increase > > > > > > your lighting without > > > > > > > > increasing the wattage. > DO NOT try to > > > > use HO > > > > > or > > > > > > VHO bulbs... which > > > > > > > > look similar but have > much higher > > > > wattage, > > > > > well > > > > > > over the 40W bulbs you > > > > > > > > now have. These other HO > and VHO bulbs > > > > have > > > > > > different pin arrangements > > > > > > > > so they will not fit in > your fixture > > > > anyhow > > > > > but I > > > > > > just wanted to save > > > > > > > > you a trip. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Last but not least, if > you're handy, > > > > you > > > > > could > > > > > > even take the bulbs out > > > > > > > > of your fixtures and > line the insides > > > > of > > > > > your > > > > > > fixtures with nice and > > > > > > > > crisp and flat aluminum > foil (shiny > > > > side > > > > > exposed) > > > > > > which will also > > > > > > > > help. Using double stick > tape and then > > > > > carefully > > > > > > applying the foil so > > > > > > > > it does not wrinkle too > much will work > > > > > well... > > > > > > especially if the > > > > > > > > inside of your fixture > is black. A > > > > white > > > > > > reflector is good but a > > > > > > > > mirrored reflector, like > that created > > > > by > > > > > the > > > > > > shiny side of foil, is > > > > > > > > MUCH better than a black > reflector. > > > > Most > > > > > black > > > > > > fixtures do at least > > > > > > > > have white reflector > areas. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > > > > > > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>> > > > > > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > > > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>>> > > > > > > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>> > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>>>> > > > > > > > (Links to any articles > referenced in > > > > > > > > above reply are listed > on the right > > > > side, > > > > > > alphabetically under Labels > > > > > > > > and also under Archives > by Year, > > > > Month) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -----Original > Message----- > > > > > > > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On > > > > > > Behalf Of erikaandnewton > > > > > > > > Sent: Tuesday, November > 10, 2009 10:17 > > > > AM > > > > > > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > > Subject: [AquaticLife] > Re: > > > > > wisteria/lighting > > > > > > previous > > > > > > > > question/response > revisited > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > << When you say > "two strips" do > > > > you > > > > > have > > > > > > two 4' long two-bulb fixtures > > > > > > > > already or something > else?>> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > i have two 4' single > bulb strip > > > > lights. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> What kind of > lighting do you > > > > > currently > > > > > > have? Look at the bulbs and > > > > > > > > >> there should be > some kind of > > > > > writing on > > > > > > one of the ends. Give us > > > > > > > > >> that info if > you cannot > > > > decipher > > > > > it > > > > > > yourself.<< > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > one bulb is a f40 t10 > > > > > > > > the other one is a > sylvania daylight > > > > bulb > > > > > also > > > > > > f40 > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> It's probably > 21" tall, since > > > > a > > > > > common > > > > > > measurement for a 75G is > > > > > > > > >> 48"x18"x21" > Tall.>> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > it is 21 inches tall > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > erika wilmington de usa > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ------------------------------------ > > > > > > > > > > > > Please, DELETE this line and > EVERYTHING below it > > > > when > > > > > replying, Thank > > > > > > You. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> > > > > > > ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , > > > > .·´¯`·..><((((º> > > > > > > PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, > DELETE all TEXT > > > > that > > > > > is NOT > > > > > > important to the reply & if > CHANGING the > > > > TOPIC of > > > > > the original message > > > > > > MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. > "new subject > > > > (was > > > > > re: old subject)" <- > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. > > > > > > , > .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. > > > > > > We Thank You in Advance for Your > HELP in this > > > > matter. > > > > > > > > > > > > If you do not want all of the > groups emails, > > > > instead > > > > > of unsubscribing, > > > > > > you can change your delivery > option by clicking > > > > on > > > > > "Edit My > > > > > > Membership" on the home page. > > > > > > > > > > > > Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com > > > <mailto:aquaticlife-digest%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > <mailto:aquaticlife-digest%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > to receive the digest, which > includes up to 25 > > > > posts > > > > > at a time in a > > > > > > single email > > > > > > > > > > > > Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com > > > <mailto:aquaticlife-nomail%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > <mailto:aquaticlife-nomail%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > for the No E-Mail option where you > will still be > > > > able > > > > > to read messages > > > > > > on the group and post replies. > > > > > > > > > > > > Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com > > > <mailto:aquaticlife-normal%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > <mailto:aquaticlife-normal%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > to receive individual > e-mails.Yahoo! Groups > > > > Links > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > AquaticLife-fullfeatured@yahoogroups.com > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife-fullfeatured%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife-fullfeatured%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ------------------------------------ > > > > > > > > > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING > below it when replying, > > > > > Thank You. > > > > > > > > > > ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> > > > > > ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , > .·´¯`·..><((((º> > > > > > PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, > DELETE all TEXT that > > > > is > > > > > NOT important to > > > > > the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC > of the original message MODIFY > > > > > the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new > subject (was re: old subject)" > > > > <- > > > > > > > > > > <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. > > > > > , > .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. > > > > > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP > in this matter. > > > > > > > > > > If you do not want all of the groups > emails, instead > > > > of > > > > > unsubscribing, you > > > > > can change your delivery option by > clicking on "Edit > > > > My > > > > > Membership" on the > > > > > home page. > > > > > > > > > > Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com > > > <mailto:aquaticlife-digest%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > <mailto:aquaticlife-digest%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > to receive the digest, which > > > > > includes up to 25 posts at a time in a > single email > > > > > > > > > > Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com > > > <mailto:aquaticlife-nomail%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > <mailto:aquaticlife-nomail%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > for the No E-Mail option where > > > > > you will still be able to read messages > on the group > > > > and > > > > > post replies. > > > > > > > > > > Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com > > > <mailto:aquaticlife-normal%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > <mailto:aquaticlife-normal%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > to receive individual > > > > > e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ------------------------------------ > > > > > > > > > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING > below it when replying, > > > > > Thank You. > > > > > > > > > > ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> > > > > > ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , > .·´¯`·..><((((º> > > > > > PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, > DELETE all TEXT that > > > > is > > > > > NOT important to the reply & if > CHANGING the TOPIC > > > > of > > > > > the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT > LINE -> > > > > i.e. "new > > > > > subject (was re: old subject)" <- > > > > > > > > > > <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. > > > > > , > .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. > > > > > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP > in this matter. > > > > > > > > > > If you do not want all of the groups > emails, instead > > > > of > > > > > unsubscribing, you can change your > delivery option by clicking on > > > > > "Edit My Membership" on the home page. > > > > > > > > > > Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com > > > <mailto:aquaticlife-digest%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > <mailto:aquaticlife-digest%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > to receive the digest, which includes > up to 25 posts > > > > at a > > > > > time in a single email > > > > > > > > > > Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com > > > <mailto:aquaticlife-nomail%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > <mailto:aquaticlife-nomail%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > for the No E-Mail option where you will > still be able > > > > to > > > > > read messages on the group and post > replies. > > > > > > > > > > Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com > > > <mailto:aquaticlife-normal%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > <mailto:aquaticlife-normal%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > to receive individual e-mails.Yahoo! > Groups Links > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > AquaticLife-fullfeatured@yahoogroups.com > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife-fullfeatured%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife-fullfeatured%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ------------------------------------ > > > > > > > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING > below it when replying, > > > > Thank You. > > > > > ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> > > > > ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , > .·´¯`·..><((((º> > > > > PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all > TEXT that is NOT > > > > important to the reply & if CHANGING the > TOPIC of the original > > > > message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. > "new subject (was re: old > > > > subject)" <- > <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. > > > > , > .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. > > > > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in > this matter. > > > > > > > > If you do not want all of the groups emails, > instead of > > > > unsubscribing, you can change your delivery > option by clicking on > > > > "Edit My Membership" on the home page. > > > > > > > > Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com > > > <mailto:aquaticlife-digest%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > <mailto:aquaticlife-digest%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > to receive the digest, which > > > > includes up to 25 posts at a time in a > single email > > > > > > > > Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com > > > <mailto:aquaticlife-nomail%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > <mailto:aquaticlife-nomail%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > for the No E-Mail option where > > > > you will still be able to read messages on > the group and post > > > > replies. > > > > > > > > Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com > > > <mailto:aquaticlife-normal%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > <mailto:aquaticlife-normal%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > to receive individual > > > > e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ------------------------------------ > > > > > > > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING > below it when replying, > > > > Thank You. > > > > > ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> > > > > ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , > .·´¯`·..><((((º> > > > > PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all > TEXT that is NOT > > > > important to the reply & if CHANGING the > TOPIC of the original > > > > message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. > "new subject (was re: old > > > > subject)" <- > <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. > > > > , > .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. > > > > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in > this matter. > > > > > > > > If you do not want all of the groups emails, > instead of > > > > unsubscribing, you can change your delivery > option by clicking on > > > > "Edit My Membership" on the home page. > > > > > > > > Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com > > > <mailto:aquaticlife-digest%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > <mailto:aquaticlife-digest%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > to receive the digest, which includes up to > 25 posts at a time in a > > > > single email > > > > > > > > Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com > > > <mailto:aquaticlife-nomail%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > <mailto:aquaticlife-nomail%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > for the No E-Mail option where you will > still be able to read > > > > messages on the group and post replies. > > > > > > > > Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com > > > <mailto:aquaticlife-normal%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > <mailto:aquaticlife-normal%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > to receive individual e-mails.Yahoo! Groups > Links > > > > > > > > > > > > AquaticLife-fullfeatured@yahoogroups.com > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife-fullfeatured%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife-fullfeatured%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ------------------------------------ > > > > > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it > when replying, > > Thank You. > > > > ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> > ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , > > > .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you > REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT > > > that is NOT important to the reply & if > CHANGING the TOPIC of the > > > original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> > i.e. "new subject (was re: > > > old subject)" <- > <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. > , > > > .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. > > > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this > matter. > > > > > > If you do not want all of the groups emails, > instead of unsubscribing, > > > you can change your delivery option by clicking > on "Edit My > > > Membership" on the home page. > > > > > > Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com > > > <mailto:aquaticlife-digest%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > <mailto:aquaticlife-digest%40yahoogroups.com> to > receive the digest, > > > which includes up to 25 posts at a time in a > single email > > > > > > Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com > > > <mailto:aquaticlife-nomail%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > <mailto:aquaticlife-nomail%40yahoogroups.com> for the > No E-Mail option > > > where you will still be able to read messages on > the group and post > > > replies. > > > > > > Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com > > > <mailto:aquaticlife-normal%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > <mailto:aquaticlife-normal%40yahoogroups.com> to > receive individual > > > e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > > > > > ------------------------------------ > > > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when > replying, Thank You. > > > ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> > ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> > > PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that > is NOT important to > > the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original > message MODIFY the > > SUBJECT > > LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" > <- > > > <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. > , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. > > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. > > > > If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead > of unsubscribing, you > > can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit > My Membership" on the > > home page. > > > > Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com > > > <mailto:aquaticlife-digest%40yahoogroups.com> to > receive the digest, which > > includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email > > > > Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com > > > <mailto:aquaticlife-nomail%40yahoogroups.com> > for the No E-Mail option > > where > > you will still be able to read messages on the group > and post replies. > > > > Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com > > > <mailto:aquaticlife-normal%40yahoogroups.com> to > receive individual > > e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > > ------------------------------------ > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when > replying, Thank You. > ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> > ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> > PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is > NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of > the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new > subject (was re: old subject)" <- > <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. > , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. > > If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of > unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by > clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the home page.  > > Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com > to receive the digest, which includes up to 25 posts at a > time in a single email > > Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com > for the No E-Mail option where you will still be able to > read messages on the group and post replies. > > Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com > to receive individual e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links > > >     AquaticLife-fullfeatured@yahoogroups.com > > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 44463	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 11/12/2009
Subject: Re: Question about eating snails

Why don't they eat the rest? Down here, with inverts and crustaceans, we eat the whole thing... with boiled crawfish, we suck the heads, then pinch the tails (or with soft shell crawfish, we eat the whole thing fried)... we eat raw oysters in their entirety (innards and all) also when fried... and nothings better than a fried soft shell crab po-boy, which means we're eating all of their innards too. MMMMMMMMMM... I could go on and on but I'm getting hungry now so I'm off to get some lunch. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Amber Berglund Sent: Thursday, November 12, 2009 12:03 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Question about eating snails Okay back to eating snails (darn people hijacking my thread ;) LOL). Could it be that it's safer to eat snails even if you use dechlor because you only eat the foot of the snail and not the intestines, etc? Just a thought, Amber Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > > Are you sure that wasn't a DERF shirt > http://www.zazzle.com/derf_tshirt-235652671296243847 > <http://www.zazzle.com/derf_tshirt-235652671296243847> and you were > just looking in the mirror? This one even comes with your picture on > it. ;-) > > Kind of like them people who have REKCUS written on their foreheads. > ;-) > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> (Links to any articles referenced in > above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels > and also under Archives by Year, Month) > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On Behalf Of Steve Szabo > Sent: Tuesday, November 10, 2009 10:08 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Question about eating snails > > Amber, > > No, I don't have to. Some of the shirts come with names already on them. > That one happened to be Fred. He had his name embroidered right over > his left pocket. They are hard to come by. I've only seen them at Sallie's. > > \\Steve// > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On Behalf Of Amber Berglund > Sent: Tuesday, November 10, 2009 9:20 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Question about eating snails > > Actually no, but that one looks good ;) LOL Wait... you name your shirts? > What's your favorite shirt named right now? LOL > > Amber > > Steve Szabo wrote: > > > > Ws this the recipe? > > > > ESCARGOTS A LA FETTUCCINI > > > > 24 (7 1/2 oz. can) very lg. sized escargots, drained > > 4 tbsp. butter > > 1-2 garlic cloves, minced > > 1/2 pt. heavy cream > > 1/2 c. grated Parmesan cheese > > 1 pkg. frozen peas > > Salt and pepper > > 1 lb. fettuccini > > > > Drain escargots, melt butter in heavy saucepan and sauté escargot > > and garlic for 3 minutes. Pour in heavy cream and simmer until > > mixture thickens slightly. Add grated cheese, peas and seasonings. > > Cook a few minutes longer until escargots and sauce are hot. Do not overcook. > > > > While sauce is cooking place fettuccini in a pot of boiling (salted) > > water. > > Cook 3-4 minutes. Drain pasta and mix with escargots sauce until > > pasta is well coated. > > > > I once had a shirt named Fred. > > > > \\Steve// > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On Behalf Of Amber Berglund > > Sent: Tuesday, November 10, 2009 5:17 PM > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Question about eating snails > > > > Actually if you look on applesnail.net they list recipe's for eating > > your snails, LOL. > > And do dead snails even have guts? LOL. > > There are 3 drivers (for now, soon to be 4 hopefully), so they'll > > have to narrow it down by names, so I'll have to wear a name tag > > that says, "Hello my name is Fred" or something, LOL. > > > > Amber > > > > Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > > > > > > Ummmm.. you (or rather your friend) shouldn't do this. Most > > > dechlor products EXPLICITLY advise against eating ornamental fish > > > (and probably critters too) that are kept in waters treated with a > > > dechlor product. I think the chemicals used in dechlors cause > > > health problems, although I doubt that five snails would matter. I > > > think it's more for fish farms that > > might > > > think about using Sodium Thiosulphate as their dechlor if they did > > > not have a natural water source for the fish stock ponds. > > > > > > As far as the different taste, could it be like other meats... > > chicken for > > > example, where the dark meat is much different in taste and > > > texture than white meat? > > > > > > Also, for your health, please do not post this on the > > > Applesnail.net forums.. you know them folks are zealous about > > > their snails. They might hunt you down and throw dead snail guts > > > on you. LOL They might even > > form a > > > new radical group called PeTS... People for the Ethical Treatment > > > of Snails. > > > LOL And if they can't find you, they might go after every other > > > delivery truck on your island. BTW... are you the only driver or > > > is Ketchikan big enough for two FedEx trucks? LOL > > > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>>> > > > (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the > > > right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by > > > Year, > > Month) > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On Behalf Of Amber > > > Berglund > > > Sent: Tuesday, November 10, 2009 10:59 AM > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > Subject: [AquaticLife] Question about eating snails > > > > > > Okay so a friend of mine was inquiring about my mystery snails for > > eating > > > purposes. Since I have a mass quantity of the happy little guys > > > and > > gals I > > > figured I would give him all my large snails that are fully grown. > > > He ended up with 5 and cooked them up as spaghetti. Now my > > > question is this; why would the dark footed (purple) mystery > > > snails taste much saltier > > than the > > > ones with white feet? > > > > > > Sorry to offend anyone at the idea of eating snails, I've had to > > > do a survival trip in my lifetime and had to survive off of > > > limpets, so I'm sure they taste similar to limpets when cooked up, > > > so it doesn't really > > offend > > > me, LOL. > > > Not to mention the little guys are threatening to breed me out of > > > house and home ;) LOL. > > > > > > Amber > > > > > > > > > ------------------------------------ > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. > ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , > .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT > that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the > original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: > old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , > .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. > > If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of unsubscribing, > you can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My > Membership" on the home page. > > Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:aquaticlife-digest%40yahoogroups.com> to receive the digest, > which includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email > > Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:aquaticlife-nomail%40yahoogroups.com> for the No E-Mail option > where you will still be able to read messages on the group and post > replies. > > Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:aquaticlife-normal%40yahoogroups.com> to receive individual > e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links > > ------------------------------------ > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. > ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , > .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT > that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the > original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: > old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , > .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. > > If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of unsubscribing, > you can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My > Membership" on the home page. > > Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:aquaticlife-digest%40yahoogroups.com> to receive the digest, > which includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email > > Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:aquaticlife-nomail%40yahoogroups.com> for the No E-Mail option > where you will still be able to read messages on the group and post > replies. > > Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:aquaticlife-normal%40yahoogroups.com> to receive individual > e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links > > ------------------------------------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the home page. Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com to receive the digest, which includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com for the No E-Mail option where you will still be able to read messages on the group and post replies. Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com to receive individual e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 44464	From: gailsugarpants	Date: 11/12/2009
Subject: Peacock with a clouded eye

Okay, in my one tank I have a Peacock that has ONE cloudy eye. It almost looks like a cataract (sp). It's mostly cloudy towards the bottom then upwards. Its not incredibly big, and I was wondering what I should do for him? I found a site that mentions this symptom, but gives various diagnosis as far as meds, etc. It's confusing. No other fish have been exhibiting this same symptom, just him and he seems kind of jumpy lately - maybe due to his new vision impairment? tell me your thoughts thanks, Gail

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 44465	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 11/12/2009
Subject: Re: wisteria/lighting previous question/response revisited

Once again Bill.... you need to get away from the "Watts" mindset. It's just not applicable with the wide array of bulbs available nowadays. That link goes to a CFL light strip and 65 watts of CFL lighting is a LOT, LOT, LOT (3 LOTS) more lighting than 65 watts of an incandescent bulb and a LOT, LOT (2 LOTS) more lighting than a 65W normal fluorescent bulb. This would probably increase your lighting by 10X's over what you have now. If you just went with 20W (range) CFL's, you'd get 2-3X's more light than you currently have. You still need to do some more research on your current bulbs to find out the specs on them. Without knowing your current specs, it's difficult to know how much more lighting you might want/need. Since you got your fixture and bulbs from DFS, I just did a search of '17 watt fluorescent' and four bulbs came up.. one was a CFL so that wasn't it and the other three are below BUT none of them are T-4's... in fact, so far, I have not been able to find a T-4, 17W bulb anywhere. What are you measuring to come up with the 1/2" figure? Bulb diameter, pin separation or other??? http://www.drsfostersmith.com/product/prod_display.cfm?pcatid=3787 (24", T-8, 5500K, nothing for lumens) http://www.drsfostersmith.com/product/prod_display.cfm?pcatid=4491 (24", T-8, Actinic 420nm, nothing for lumens) http://www.drsfostersmith.com/product/prod_display.cfm?pcatid=4489 (24", T-8, 6500K, nothing for lumens) You need to take your bulb out and go to a local lighting store (department) or even the Walmart and see if they can give you more info on it or at least you might find identical sized bulbs that do have specs on them so you can be more informed about what you have. While I was at the DFS site, and since you previously mentioned that you have an All-Glass hood that came with the one bulb light strip, I did a search on DFS for 'All-Glass light' and found this link for the only single bulb light strip that All-Glass has on DFS' site. http://www.drsfostersmith.com/product/prod_display.cfm?pcatid=3793 It comes in 16" or 20" lengths. There's a link to "View compatible Bulbs" in the Description tab, which brings up a page of bulbs and ALL of the ones compatible for the 20" strip are T-8 bulbs. There are a couple of dozen bulbs listed so I didn't go through them and unfortunately, they do NOT list the wattage on that list so I wasn't able to find any 17W bulbs without checking a bunch of links. Since it was an All-Glass fixture, I did click on the first All-Glass brand bulb which brought up this page... http://www.drsfostersmith.com/product/prod_display.cfm?pcatid=12850 And you will see that there is either an 18", 15W bulb or a 24", 17W bulb, as well as others... and these are the 8000K bulbs which were listed in the description on the website link that you posted earlier BUT.. these are ALL T-8 bulbs, not T-4's so we're back to that spec issue again. This page does call them 8000K Daylight, Full Spectrum bulbs so maybe they are OK but I wish that the DFS site would list lumens since that is a critical, need-to-know piece of information that is missing. As seen in my previous posts, the same sized bulbs can have a lumen output that is 50% to 100% higher than a comparable bulb of the same size... and that makes a HUGE difference in lighting. Once again, take the bulb to your WalMart and compare apples to apples and find out exactly what size bulb you have and while there, look at other identical sized bulbs and look for the highest lumens in the 5000K to 6500K range, buy one and bring it home and see if it's a LOT brighter than what you now have. If so, that might do the trick. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of bill 1433 Sent: Thursday, November 12, 2009 12:12 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: wisteria/lighting previous question/response revisited Hi Amber, The links Len provided are very close BUT it's the ends of the tube or pins that worry me. They are very close but "how"? Meaning this buying the tube, ok by mail? Now what if it doesn't work? Rreturn a $10.00 tube the postage would cost more. I'm trying to work backward now from Len's link, and get a manufacture so I can buy around here. Also I'm getting made enough now to scrape the whole thing and just get a new All-Glass cover then maybe one of these: http://www.drsfostersmith.com/product/prod_display.cfm?c=3578+3733+9654+9871 &pcatid=9871 This link is not pointing to the exact Coralife product I want at Doctors its # apn-16981, if you have their catalog but I can't make it come up on search at their site. It is a single rated at 65 watts and is 24". Bill --- On Thu, 11/12/09, Amber Berglund <arberglund@...> wrote: > From: Amber Berglund <arberglund@...> > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: wisteria/lighting previous question/response revisited > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Date: Thursday, November 12, 2009, 12:59 PM > Bill does have T-4's if I remember > correctly, maybe one of those 20watt > bulbs will work for him and provide more lumens than his > current bulbs do. > Did you check those links out Bill? ;) > > Amber > > Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > > > > Just because a fixture currently has a T-8 or T-10, > does not mean it > > cannot > > use a T-12, and vice versa. They are all medium bi-pin > bulbs, meaning they > > all will fit and work UNLESS the reflector is so tight > that a T-12 cannot > > fit inside the fixture but I haven't seen this as a > problem in the past. > > Usually, going with a T-8 or T-10, instead of a T-12 > will give more lumens > > but in the case of this particular sized bulb, the > T-12 may be the better > > option. Of course, we still need more details on > Bill's exact bulb. We > > still do not know anything except that it's 17 > watts... nothing about > > lumens, K rating or anything else for comparison > purposes. As Johnny 5 > > once > > said... "Need more input!" (I have no clue why that > OLD movie line popped > > into my head and I can't blame it on drugs since I > didn't/don't do them... > > and as far as I know, beer doesn't cause acid > flashbacks. LOL > > http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Short_Circuit > > <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Short_Circuit>) > > > > Now... thinking back a little. Bill may have T-4's and > if he does, those > > use the miniature bi-pin base and the above larger > T-#'s with medium > > bi-pin > > base would not work. If this is the case, there are > other options > > listed on > > this page... > > http://www.servicelighting.com/T4-Straight-Linear-Fluorescent-Light-Bulbs > > > <http://www.servicelighting.com/T4-Straight-Linear-Fluorescent-Light-Bulbs> > > including this 20W, 6400K, 1340 Lumens bulb - > > http://www.servicelighting.com/Bulbrite-85220-F20T4-64K-F20T4-D-T4-Straight- > > > <http://www.servicelighting.com/Bulbrite-85220-F20T4-64K-F20T4-D-T4-Straight -> > > Linear-Fluorescent-Light-Bulb, which sounds like a > pretty good bulb > > from the > > specs and actually provides more lumens than any of > the T-12's previously > > listed. > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are > listed on the right > > side, alphabetically under Labels and also under > Archives by Year, Month) > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On > > Behalf Of Amber Berglund > > Sent: Thursday, November 12, 2009 10:29 AM > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: wisteria/lighting > previous > > question/response > > revisited > > > > Bill has smaller bulbs, I think they are not easy to > find in a higher > > wattage output, which is what he was looking for a few > months back. > > > > Amber > > > > Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > > > > > > I don't know what you mean by this. Please > elaborate. What size tube? > > > I posted about several different bulbs but all > were T-12's, which is > > > one of the most common sizes. > > > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>> > > (Links to any articles referenced in > > > above reply are listed on the right side, > alphabetically under Labels > > > and also under Archives by Year, Month) > > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On > Behalf Of bill 1433 > > > Sent: Thursday, November 12, 2009 8:59 AM > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: wisteria/lighting > previous > > > question/response revisited > > > > > > Yes Len, > > > > > > But its finding that size tube with more of > anything that's the problem. > > > > > > Bill > > > > > > --- On Wed, 11/11/09, Lenny V. aka GoldLenny > <GoldLenny@... > > > <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com> > > > <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com>> wrote: > > > > > > > From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@... > > > <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com> > > > <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com>> > > > > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: > wisteria/lighting previous > > > > question/response revisited > > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > Date: Wednesday, November 11, 2009, 5:22 PM > Well, if you only have > > > > 17W, then you could definitely do better > with the 20W, higher lumen, > > > > better K rating bulbs that I mentioned. > Considering the lumen > > > > ratings of fluorescent bulbs I've looked at, > your 17W bulbs might > > > > only have 500-700 lumens where the BEST 20W > bulb (below) has > > > > 1075 lumens so you > > > > could possibly increase your lighting by 50% > to 100% just by > > > > changing to that bulb. At least, with that > bulb, you'll be in the > > > > low-light range for plants on the 20G but > the 29G will need some work. > > > > > > > > Of course, you should find out what the > lumens and K ratings are on > > > > the bulbs you have so you'll know if you are > getting a small jump or > > > > a BIG jump in lighting just by changing your > bulbs. Check your local > > > > WalMart for bulbs. My nearby WalMart > SuperCenter has a really big > > > > assortment of fluorescent tubes and they > were cheaper than the Home > > > > Depot. > > > > > > > > Something else I'm thinking about for you is > going with 18" > > > > light-sticks on > > > > each end of your 29G tank or front or back > (back would hide it best > > > > but you decide your best aesthetics) and > you'd have to make a DIY > > > > reflector for it (white poster board and > scotch tape would work) and > > > > that would get more lighting down to the > bottom level plants in the > > > > 29G. > > > > > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>> > > (Links to any articles > > > > referenced in above reply are listed on the > right side, > > > > alphabetically under Labels and also under > Archives by Year, Month) > > > > > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] > > > > On > > > > Behalf Of bill 1433 > > > > Sent: Wednesday, November 11, 2009 3:42 PM > > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: > wisteria/lighting previous > > > > question/response revisited > > > > > > > > It is what it is type of thing Len. Site > says one thing but stamped > > > > or printed right on the tube is at 17 > watts. > > > > > > > > Bill > > > > > > > > --- On Wed, 11/11/09, Lenny V. aka GoldLenny > <GoldLenny@... > > > <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com> > > > <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com>> > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@... > > > <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com> > > > <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com>> > > > > > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: > wisteria/lighting > > > > previous > > > > > question/response revisited > > > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > Date: Wednesday, November 11, 2009, > 2:16 PM The > > > > problem might be this > > > > > statement in the description... > > > > > > > > > > "... Hoods include 8000ºK bulb... > ...20W, 24"..." > > > > > > > > > > That's getting into the higher > green/blue Kelvin > > > > range... > > > > > closer to the > > > > > 10,000K actinic type bulbs... than the > 5000K to 6500K > > > > "Daylight" bulbs > > > > > that provide full spectrum lighting. > It's also only > > > > a 20W bulb > > > > > (according to the DFS site, although > you stated it was > > > > only 17W so > > > > > double check this) so it's only 1WPG on > the 20G and > > > > only 0.69WPG on > > > > > the 29G. Of course, if the bulb puts > out a LOT more > > > > lumens (you would > > > > > have to do more checking up on the bulb > to find this), > > > > that would help > > > > > a little but not much. I think you need > at least > > > > 1WPG to have success > > > > > with low-light plants, although > floating plants like > > > > Anacharis, > > > > > Hornwort, Duckweed, etc., would be up > close to the > > > > light and benefit > > > > > from CO2 from the air and would do OK > with your > > > > lighting... but then > > > > > they would also block out the lighting > to the rest of > > > > the tank. > > > > > > > > > > I don't see a lot of options, as far as > T-8 bulbs are > > > > concerned for > > > > > this size fixture but I see a few > different T-12's... > > > > such as... > > > > > > > > > > (My rating is: GOOD - but see BETTER > and BEST options > > > > below... at > > > > > least as far as the bulbs on this site > are concerned) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > http://www.servicelighting.com/Sylvania-22119-F20T12-DSGN50-T12-Straig > > > <http://www.servicelighting.com/Sylvania-22119-F20T12-DSGN50-T12-Straig> > > > > > <http://www.servicelighting.com/Sylvania-22119-F20T12-DSGN50-T12-Strai > > > <http://www.servicelighting.com/Sylvania-22119-F20T12-DSGN50-T12-Strai> > > > g> > > > > > ht-Lin > > > > > ear-Fluorescent-Light-Bulb > > > > > > > > > > Light Output: 880 lumens > > > > > Refers to the literal measure of the > light-output of a > > > > particular > > > > > light bulb, measured in the number of > lumens. > > > > > > > > > > Energy Used: 20 watts > > > > > "Watts" is the term applied to the > amount of energy > > > > required and used > > > > > by a particular light bulb. It is an > international > > > > system unit of > > > > > power equal to one joule per second. > Contrary to > > > > popular belief, the > > > > > wattage of a bulb does not directly > measure the > > > > brightness; the > > > > > "lumens" of a light is what defines the > actual light > > > > output. > > > > > > > > > > Average Lifetime: 9,000 hours > > > > > This refers to an average lifetime > rating based on > > > > large quantities in > > > > > test groups. This testing takes into > account usage of > > > > 3 hours per > > > > > start for fluorescent lamps and 10 > hours per start for > > > > HID lamps. > > > > > > > > > > Bulb Type: T12 > > > > > The "Bulb Type" is typically a > combination of the > > > > style of bulb as > > > > > well as the width of the bulb. Usually, > the first > > > > couple letters will > > > > > indicate the type; "G" would indicate > "Globe", "PAR" > > > > would indicate > > > > > "Parabolic Reflector"... The numbers > indicate the > > > > diameter of the > > > > > light bulb in eighths of an inch; a > "G40" would be a > > > > "Globe" style > > > > > that is "5 inches" in diameter. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Base Type: Medium Bi-Pin > > > > > The "Base" of a light bulb is the part > that either > > > > screws or snaps > > > > > into a receptacle. Base Type > terminology may indicate > > > > common > > > > > descriptive words like "Medium" or > "Candelabra", or > > > > may even contain > > > > > numeric codes that signify size and > variety, like > > > > "E26" or "2GX13". > > > > > > > > > > Color Temperature: 5,000K > > > > > Correlated Color Temperature (CCT) is a > specification > > > > of the color > > > > > appearance of a lamp, relating its > color to that of a > > > > reference source > > > > > heated to a particular temperature, > measured in > > > > degrees Kelvin (K). It > > > > > generally measures the "warmth" or > "coolness" of light > > > > source > > > > > appearance. > > > > > > > > > > CRI: 90 > > > > > CRI refers to the "Color Rendering > Index" of a light > > > > bulb. > > > > > CRI measures a > > > > > light source and grades its ability to > render the > > > > color of objects > > > > > "correctly," as compared with a > reference source with > > > > comparable color > > > > > temperature. 100 is perfect rendering. > > > > > > > > > > Length: 24 inches > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > (BETTER - slightly higher lumens and > higher 6500K > > > > rating) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > http://www.servicelighting.com/Westinghouse-36516-F20T12-FS-T12-Straig > > > <http://www.servicelighting.com/Westinghouse-36516-F20T12-FS-T12-Straig> > > > > > <http://www.servicelighting.com/Westinghouse-36516-F20T12-FS-T12-Strai > > > <http://www.servicelighting.com/Westinghouse-36516-F20T12-FS-T12-Strai> > > > g> > > > > > ht-Lin > > > > > ear-Fluorescent-Light-Bulb > > > > > > > > > > Light Output: 900 lumens > > > > > Energy Used: 20 watts > > > > > Average Lifetime: 10,000 hours > > > > > Bulb Type: T12 > > > > > Base Type: Medium Bi-Pin > > > > > Color Temperature: 6,500K > > > > > CRI: 90 > > > > > Length: 24 inches > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > (BEST, of these three - around 20% > higher lumens and > > > > good 6,500K > > > > > rating, although it does have a lower > CRI rating.. but > > > > still > > > > > passing) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > http://www.servicelighting.com/Sylvania-22083-F20T12-D-T12-Straight-Li > > > <http://www.servicelighting.com/Sylvania-22083-F20T12-D-T12-Straight-Li> > > > > > <http://www.servicelighting.com/Sylvania-22083-F20T12-D-T12-Straight-L > > > <http://www.servicelighting.com/Sylvania-22083-F20T12-D-T12-Straight-L> > > > i> > > > > > near-F > > > > > luorescent-Light-Bulb > > > > > > > > > > Light Output: 1,075 lumens > > > > > Energy Used: 20 watts > > > > > Average Lifetime: 9,000 hours > > > > > Bulb Type: T12 > > > > > Base Type: Medium Bi-Pin > > > > > Color Temperature: 6,500K > > > > > CRI: 76 > > > > > Length: 24 inches > > > > > > > > > > Compare the above three to what is sold > as a > > > > plant/aquarium light by > > > > > the same company, which has a lower > lumens, MUCH lower > > > > CRI rating and > > > > > does not list the K rating other than > to say "Plant" > > > > which is a > > > > > subjective rating established by the > manufacturer. > > > > > > > > > > (WORST) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > http://www.servicelighting.com/Westinghouse-36411-F20T12-PL-T12-Straig > > > <http://www.servicelighting.com/Westinghouse-36411-F20T12-PL-T12-Straig> > > > > > <http://www.servicelighting.com/Westinghouse-36411-F20T12-PL-T12-Strai > > > <http://www.servicelighting.com/Westinghouse-36411-F20T12-PL-T12-Strai> > > > g> > > > > > ht-Lin > > > > > ear-Fluorescent-Light-Bulb > > > > > > > > > > Light Output: 700 lumens (over 30% less > lighting > > > > than the 1,075 > > > > > lumens bulb > > > > > above) > > > > > Energy Used: 20 watts > > > > > Average Lifetime: 10,000 hours > > > > > Bulb Type: T12 > > > > > Base Type: Medium Bi-Pin > > > > > Color: Plant > > > > > CRI: 61 > > > > > Length: 24 inches > > > > > > > > > > If any of the above have much better > lumens than your > > > > current > > > > > lighting... > > > > > and they all have better K ratings, > then any of them > > > > would be better > > > > > for you... but you would still be stuck > with only 20 > > > > watts but it's > > > > > the LUMENS and K rating that count more > than watts. > > > > You need to find > > > > > out the lumens on your bulb. Try to > find it on the > > > > DFS site and let > > > > > us know. > > > > > > > > > > You should look at the AHSupply.com > place for a > > > > retrofit kit so you > > > > > can use CFL's in your current hood. > That would > > > > probably be your least > > > > > expensive option. I know you don't like > electricity > > > > but I'm sure you > > > > > know someone that could do this for > you... on the > > > > cheap... or over a > > > > > 6-pack. > > > > > > > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > > > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>> > > (Links to > > > > any articles > > > > > referenced in above reply are listed on > the right > > > > side, alphabetically > > > > > under Labels and also under Archives by > Year, Month) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] > > > > > On > > > > > Behalf Of bill 1433 > > > > > Sent: Wednesday, November 11, 2009 9:33 > AM > > > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: > wisteria/lighting > > > > previous > > > > > question/response > > > > > revisited > > > > > > > > > > Hi \\Steve// > > > > > > > > > > At this point, and also to refresh your > mind, and > > > > anyone > > > > > else on the group > > > > > that may have interest. This all got > started with > > > > my > > > > > search for a tube that > > > > > would allow me more light output from > an All Glass > > > > Plastic > > > > > hood and light. > > > > > This unit comes with a "color type tube > at 17 watts > > > > that is > > > > > only 24 inches > > > > > long. This is for a 20/29-gallon tank. > I was stupid enough to buy > > > > > two of them, one for each tank. For > further inspection > > > > here > > > > > is the light: > > > > > > > > > > > > > http://www.drsfostersmith.com/product/prod_display.cfm?pcatid=13447 > > > <http://www.drsfostersmith.com/product/prod_display.cfm?pcatid=13447> > > > <http://www.drsfostersmith.com/product/prod_display.cfm?pcatid=13447 > > > <http://www.drsfostersmith.com/product/prod_display.cfm?pcatid=13447>> > > > > > > > > > > For those that would like to aggravate > themselves > > > > further, > > > > > I can also state > > > > > that these hoods are very conducive to > growing Black Algae! > > > > > > > > > > Summoning up, I should have only > purchased an > > > > All-Glass > > > > > cover and then > > > > > probably a double tube light of > sufficient wattage to > > > > bring > > > > > me up to the > > > > > recommended 2 or 3 watts per gallon. > > > > > > > > > > Ya live and learn, > > > > > > > > > > Bill > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > --- On Tue, 11/10/09, Steve Szabo > <steve@... > > > <mailto:steve%40familyszabo.com> > > > <mailto:steve%40familyszabo.com>> > > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > From: Steve Szabo <steve@... > > > <mailto:steve%40familyszabo.com> > > > <mailto:steve%40familyszabo.com>> > > > > > > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: > wisteria/lighting > > > > > previous > > > > > > question/response revisited > > > > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > Date: Tuesday, November 10, 2009, > 11:50 PM Bill, > > > > you > > > > > got it right! The > > > > > > T numbers represent the diameter > of the bulb in > > > > 1/8" > > > > > increments. A T4 > > > > > > is a bulb 1/2" in diameter, T5 is > 5/8", t8 is > > > > 1" and > > > > > a t12 is 1 1/2". > > > > > > As I recall, the F is the wattage > of the bulb. > > > > > > > > > > > > Lumens, not usually stated on the > bulb is the > > > > actual > > > > > amount of light > > > > > > coming from the bulb. It really > does not have > > > > anything > > > > > to do with > > > > > > watts, though more watts will give > you more > > > > lumens, > > > > > but, also the > > > > > > phosphors used in the bulb affect > the amount of > > > > lumen > > > > > output. Lumens > > > > > > and lux are often used > interchangeably, but they > > > > are > > > > > really different > > > > > > measurements. Lux is the measure > of illumination > > > > over > > > > > a given area. It > > > > > > may actually be more important to > aquarists > > > > raising > > > > > plants than the > > > > > > lumen output. Lux is what is > measured by a light > > > > > meter, for anyone who > > > > > > happens to know what they are--not > often seen > > > > with > > > > > today's cameras and > > > > > > photographers. > > > > > > > > > > > > Color temperature is important. > Average daylight > > > > > (except may in > > > > > > Amber's area where they have 6 > months of > > > > darkness) has > > > > > a color > > > > > > temperature of 5500-6000. > > > > > > An overcast day can have a color > temperature of > > > > 6500. > > > > > As mentioned > > > > > > earlier, plants need light in two > color > > > > spectrums, > > > > > and, actually they > > > > > > are rather narrow spans of > wavelengths they > > > > benefit > > > > > from. > > > > > > > > > > > > I thought I had a bookmark > explaining this, but > > > > I > > > > > can't find it > > > > > > quickly (over 400K of bookmarks, > and things have > > > > a > > > > > tendency to get > > > > > > lost), however, some judicial > Googling will gain > > > > you > > > > > the information. > > > > > > > > > > > > \\Steve// > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > > > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] > > > > > > On > > > > > > Behalf Of bill 1433 > > > > > > Sent: Tuesday, November 10, 2009 > 10:20 PM > > > > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: > wisteria/lighting > > > > > previous > > > > > > question/response revisited > > > > > > > > > > > > Yes, Amber > > > > > > > > > > > > It was I, looking for the original > information > > > > and > > > > > also looked back on > > > > > > \\Steve//'s post at group to try > and find. Ray > > > > had > > > > > mentioned all this > > > > > > the other day saying that he > thought the posting > > > > came > > > > > from \\Steve//. > > > > > > > > > > > > I was not successful in my search. > Also, for me > > > > the > > > > > most important > > > > > > part was a link to a chart which > showed you > > > > exactly, > > > > > or explained > > > > > > exactly the "T" > > > > > > factor stands for. For instance, > T-4 would be a > > > > tube > > > > > that is a half > > > > > > inch wide, or close to > it-----------I think. > > > > All > > > > > this is my own > > > > > > fault. In my interest to acquire > and learn > > > > about > > > > > lighting,I went > > > > > > through and studied the applied > links but being > > > > > ol'bill, I never > > > > > > bookmarked them. > > > > > > Then to further > > > > > > compound the problem, I deleted > the original > > > > message > > > > > that it came > > > > > > from. In hind-sight you could > probably chalk > > > > this > > > > > all up to felonious > > > > > > stupidity on my part. > > > > > > > > > > > > Bill---where its always a good day > if I learn > > > > > something new! > > > > > > > > > > > > --- On Tue, 11/10/09, Amber > Berglund <arberglund@... > > > <mailto:arberglund%40gmail.com> > > > <mailto:arberglund%40gmail.com>> > > > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > From: Amber Berglund <arberglund@... > > > <mailto:arberglund%40gmail.com> > > > <mailto:arberglund%40gmail.com>> > > > > > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: > wisteria/lighting > > > > > previous > > > > > > question/response revisited > > > > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > Date: Tuesday, November 10, 2009, > 9:30 PM > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I believe it was Steve who posted > a link about > > > > lumens > > > > > months back when > > > > > > (I think it was maybe Bill asking) > about lighting > > > > for > > > > > planted > > > > > > aquariums. > > > > > > Plants require 2 different > spectrums of light to > > > > > properly produce > > > > > > either leaves or flowers (red is > more for flower > > > > > production and blue > > > > > > is more for growth, but for the > best growing you > > > > want > > > > > a mixture of > > > > > > BOTH colors). > > > > > > So in reality you would want a > light that appears > > > > more > > > > > brown/reddish > > > > > > in coloring and a blue/white > coloring as well, > > > > but > > > > > they now have bulbs > > > > > > that have BOTH spectrums built in > (I'm sure they > > > > don't > > > > > work as well as > > > > > > it would to have 2 different bulbs > one mostly red > > > > and > > > > > the other mostly > > > > > > blue on the color spectrum). > > > > > > Let me see if I still have the > link bookmarked. > > > > > > What I was trying to say is that > Kelvin does not > > > > tell > > > > > you what color > > > > > > spectrum the light REALLY is, it's > actually > > > > measuring > > > > > it's light > > > > > > output color according to how the > human eyes > > > > perceive > > > > > it. So 6500 > > > > > > kelvin in general is what most > plants will > > > > prefer > > > > > because that is a > > > > > > mixture of both red and blue > spectrums (In MOST > > > > bulbs) > > > > > unfortunately > > > > > > not all light bulb manufactures > have to use the > > > > exact > > > > > same chart for > > > > > > their colors, so they will have > different colors > > > > than > > > > > another bulb > > > > > > that says it's 6500 Kelvin. what > you really need > > > > to > > > > > read is the color > > > > > > chart on the box, not what lumens > it says it is. > > > > > > (still searching for link, LOL). > > > > > > > > > > > > This isn't the right link but it > discusses the > > > > > kelvin/lumen problems a > > > > > > little bit, still looking for the > link that > > > > showed the > > > > > charts and what > > > > > > to look for in the color charts. > > > > > > http://www.americanaquariumproducts.com/Aquarium_Lighting.html > > > <http://www.americanaquariumproducts.com/Aquarium_Lighting.html> > > > <http://www.americanaquariumproducts.com/Aquarium_Lighting.html > > > <http://www.americanaquariumproducts.com/Aquarium_Lighting.html>> > > > > > > > > > > > > Will post again when I find the > other link with > > > > chart > > > > > examples. > > > > > > > > > > > > Amber > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I think it would be false > advertising or > > > > > possibly > > > > > > mis-advertising (if they > > > > > > > do not know any better) if a > company lists > > > > their > > > > > bulbs > > > > > > as 6500K and they > > > > > > > aren't. The Kelvin scale, > just like Watts > > > > and > > > > > Lumens, > > > > > > are ALL > > > > > > > universal and > > > > > > > scientifically measurable > scales BUT, as I > > > > > showed > > > > > > below, not all 40 watt > > > > > > > bulbs put out the same amount > of light > > > > (lumens) > > > > > or in > > > > > > the same color > > > > > > > spectrum (Kelvin rating). All > 40 watt > > > > bulbs, > > > > > whether > > > > > > incandescent, > > > > > > > fluorescent, CFL, LED, > Halogen, etc.... ALL > > > > use > > > > > > only/around 40 watts of > > > > > > > electricity but their light > output can vary > > > > > > dramatically. This is why > > > > > > > fluorescent bulbs are so much > more > > > > efficient > > > > > than > > > > > > incandescent bulbs and > > > > > > > CFL's are even more > efficient... as a 40W > > > > > fluorescent > > > > > > bulb puts out a LOT > > > > > > > more light (lumens) than a 40 > watt > > > > incandescent > > > > > bulb > > > > > > and a 40W CFL > > > > > > > puts out > > > > > > > more light (lumens) than a > 40W fluorescent > > > > bulb. > > > > > This > > > > > > is why the OLD > > > > > > > "Watts > > > > > > > Per Gallon" rule simply does > not work any > > > > more. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > BUT.. if three different > companies are > > > > selling > > > > > > standard T-10 fluorescent > > > > > > > bulbs with the same exact > rating of 40W, > > > > 3550 > > > > > lumens > > > > > > and 6500K > > > > > > > rating... all > > > > > > > three of those bulbs should > be VERY SIMILAR > > > > if > > > > > not > > > > > > identical in the > > > > > > > way they > > > > > > > appear to our eyes (subject > to our own > > > > degree of > > > > > color > > > > > > blindness, of > > > > > > > course!) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > In the past, things like > "soft white", > > > > "warm > > > > > white", > > > > > > "daylight", "plant > > > > > > > grow", etc., type terms were > used and are > > > > still > > > > > used > > > > > > but those are just > > > > > > > simple words (not subject to > a scientific > > > > scale) > > > > > to > > > > > > describe the Kelvin > > > > > > > rating ranges but lumens are > just as > > > > important > > > > > since a > > > > > > bulb could have a > > > > > > > 6500K rating with only 2200 > lumens where > > > > another > > > > > bulb > > > > > > could have a 6500K > > > > > > > rating and 3550 or 3700 > lumens and that > > > > bulb > > > > > would put > > > > > > out over 50% more > > > > > > > light (lumens) in the same > color spectrum > > > > > (Kelvin > > > > > > rating) so it would be a > > > > > > > much more cost effective bulb > if it cost > > > > the > > > > > same > > > > > > amount or only a little > > > > > > > more. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I'm slightly confused about > the "red and > > > > blue > > > > > light > > > > > > for your plants" as > > > > > > > those two colors are on > opposite ends of > > > > the > > > > > Kelvin > > > > > > Scale with reds and > > > > > > > ambers in the lower numbers > and greens and > > > > blues > > > > > in > > > > > > the higher numbers. I > > > > > > > think this is why you would > want a > > > > mid-range > > > > > (5000K to > > > > > > 6500K) bulb as > > > > > > > those > > > > > > > are generally considered > "full spectrum" or > > > > > "daylight" > > > > > > bulbs. Here's a > > > > > > > color picture of the Kelvin > Scale, > > > > > > > http://www.bltdirect.com/images/colour-temperature.jpg > > > <http://www.bltdirect.com/images/colour-temperature.jpg> > > > <http://www.bltdirect.com/images/colour-temperature.jpg > > > <http://www.bltdirect.com/images/colour-temperature.jpg>> > > > > > > > > > > > > > <http://www.bltdirect.com/images/colour-temperature.jpg > > > <http://www.bltdirect.com/images/colour-temperature.jpg> > > > <http://www.bltdirect.com/images/colour-temperature.jpg > > > <http://www.bltdirect.com/images/colour-temperature.jpg>>> > > > > > > and you can > > > > > > > visually > > > > > > > see that the 5000K to 6500K > range is all > > > > about > > > > > the > > > > > > same "color". I think > > > > > > > this is also why Actinic > bulbs are usually > > > > higher > > > > > and > > > > > > closer to the 10000K > > > > > > > range and up... apparently, > the Kelvin > > > > lighting > > > > > scale > > > > > > can go up to 20,000K > > > > > > > (according to this article > about Reef Tanks > > > > > > > > > > > http://nh.craigslist.org/for/1423072406.html > > <http://nh.craigslist.org/for/1423072406.html> > > > <http://nh.craigslist.org/for/1423072406.html > > <http://nh.craigslist.org/for/1423072406.html>> > > > > > > > <http://nh.craigslist.org/for/1423072406.html > > <http://nh.craigslist.org/for/1423072406.html> > > > <http://nh.craigslist.org/for/1423072406.html > > <http://nh.craigslist.org/for/1423072406.html>>> > on, > > > > > of > > > > > > all places, > > > > > > > Craigslist). > > > > > > > Here is the page that that > the above photo > > > > link > > > > > came > > > > > > from and it has a > > > > > > > chart > > > > > > > that also explains things a > little more also > > > > and > > > > > talks > > > > > > about the CRI, yet > > > > > > > another lighting term (Color > Rendition > > > > Index). > > > > > > > http://www.bltdirect.com/lampColourTemperatures.php > > <http://www.bltdirect.com/lampColourTemperatures.php> > > > <http://www.bltdirect.com/lampColourTemperatures.php > > <http://www.bltdirect.com/lampColourTemperatures.php>> > > > > > > > <http://www.bltdirect.com/lampColourTemperatures.php > > <http://www.bltdirect.com/lampColourTemperatures.php> > > > <http://www.bltdirect.com/lampColourTemperatures.php > > <http://www.bltdirect.com/lampColourTemperatures.php>>> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > > > > > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>> > > > > > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>>> (Links > > > > > to any articles referenced in > > > > > > > above reply are > > > > > > listed on the right > > > > > > > side, alphabetically under > Labels and also > > > > under > > > > > > Archives by Year, Month) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > > > > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On > > > > > Behalf Of Amber Berglund > > > > > > > Sent: Tuesday, November 10, > 2009 4:22 PM > > > > > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] > Re: > > > > wisteria/lighting > > > > > > previous > > > > > > > question/response > > > > > > > revisited > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Another thing to consider is > one light > > > > company's > > > > > 6500 > > > > > > kelvin rating > > > > > > > may not > > > > > > > be identical to another light > bulb from a > > > > > different > > > > > > company that's > > > > > > > rated the > > > > > > > same. The important thing to > look at is the > > > > > color > > > > > > chart they show on the > > > > > > > boxes, you want more red and > blue light for > > > > your > > > > > > plants, green is not > > > > > > > useful > > > > > > > or harmful as the plants > reflect the light > > > > back > > > > > (makes > > > > > > them appear more > > > > > > > green but does nothing else > for them). The > > > > > kelvin > > > > > > rating is based on our > > > > > > > eyes and how they perceive > color, so each > > > > > company > > > > > > doesn't have to be > > > > > > > identical, perhaps some day > they will have > > > > a > > > > > universal > > > > > > way to measure > > > > > > > light > > > > > > > spectrums on bulbs that is > much less > > > > confusing. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Amber > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Lenny V. aka GoldLenny > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > OK. So you have a total > of 80 watts > > > > right > > > > > now, > > > > > > which is just over 1 > > > > > > > > WPG, which means you > only have enough > > > > > lighting > > > > > > for low-light, easy to > > > > > > > > grow plants. See my blog > article > > > > "Planted > > > > > Tank: > > > > > > So You Want A Planted > > > > > > > > Tank" for links to lists > of low-light, > > > > easy > > > > > to > > > > > > grow plants that will > > > > > > > > do OK in your tank. You > should replace > > > > > those > > > > > > tubes at least yearly... > > > > > > > > although some say every > six months. As > > > > far > > > > > as I > > > > > > know, a 40W bulb is > > > > > > > > the highest wattage made > for this type > > > > of > > > > > > bulb/fixture right now but > > > > > > > > you can increase your > lighting > > > > > > > > (lumens) and K (Kelvin) > rating. See > > > > below. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > NOTE - below links are > for > > > > > example/informational > > > > > > purposes only, as I > > > > > > > > know nothing about the > sites. God... > > > > did I > > > > > just > > > > > > say that? Do I really > > > > > > > > have to add disclaimers > to my posts > > > > now? LOL > > > > > Just > > > > > > laughing at myself. > > > > > > > > LOL > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > This may be your > Sylvania bulb... > > > > > > > > > > > http://www.lightbulbemporium.com/proddetail.asp?prod=F40/EX50 > > > <http://www.lightbulbemporium.com/proddetail.asp?prod=F40/EX50> > > > <http://www.lightbulbemporium.com/proddetail.asp?prod=F40/EX50 > > > <http://www.lightbulbemporium.com/proddetail.asp?prod=F40/EX50>> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > <http://www.lightbulbemporium.com/proddetail.asp?prod=F40/EX50 > > > <http://www.lightbulbemporium.com/proddetail.asp?prod=F40/EX50> > > > <http://www.lightbulbemporium.com/proddetail.asp?prod=F40/EX50 > > > <http://www.lightbulbemporium.com/proddetail.asp?prod=F40/EX50>>> > > > > > > > > > > > <http://www.lightbulbemporium.com/proddetail.asp?prod=F40/EX50 > > > <http://www.lightbulbemporium.com/proddetail.asp?prod=F40/EX50> > > > <http://www.lightbulbemporium.com/proddetail.asp?prod=F40/EX50 > > > <http://www.lightbulbemporium.com/proddetail.asp?prod=F40/EX50>> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > <http://www.lightbulbemporium.com/proddetail.asp?prod=F40/EX50 > > > <http://www.lightbulbemporium.com/proddetail.asp?prod=F40/EX50> > > > <http://www.lightbulbemporium.com/proddetail.asp?prod=F40/EX50 > > > <http://www.lightbulbemporium.com/proddetail.asp?prod=F40/EX50>>>> > > > > > > and if > > > > > > > > it is, then it's the > same ratings as > > > > the > > > > > specs in > > > > > > the T-10 bulb that I > > > > > > > > copy/pasted below, which > is a pretty > > > > good > > > > > bulb > > > > > > with higher lumens and > > > > > > > > the higher K rating, > although not a > > > > 6500K > > > > > rated > > > > > > bulb. At the bottom of > > > > > > > > this page, there was a > link to this > > > > bulb... > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > http://www.lightbulbemporium.com/maxlite_51204_ml_f40t10_850_rscg.as > > > <http://www.lightbulbemporium.com/maxlite_51204_ml_f40t10_850_rscg.as> > > > > > <http://www.lightbulbemporium.com/maxlite_51204_ml_f40t10_850_rscg.as > > > <http://www.lightbulbemporium.com/maxlite_51204_ml_f40t10_850_rscg.as>> > > > > > > > p > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > <http://www.lightbulbemporium.com/maxlite_51204_ml_f40t10_850_rscg.a > > > <http://www.lightbulbemporium.com/maxlite_51204_ml_f40t10_850_rscg.a> > > > <http://www.lightbulbemporium.com/maxlite_51204_ml_f40t10_850_rscg.a > > > <http://www.lightbulbemporium.com/maxlite_51204_ml_f40t10_850_rscg.a>> > > > > > > > sp> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > <http://www.lightbulbemporium.com/maxlite_51204_ml_f40t10_850_rscg.a > > > <http://www.lightbulbemporium.com/maxlite_51204_ml_f40t10_850_rscg.a> > > > <http://www.lightbulbemporium.com/maxlite_51204_ml_f40t10_850_rscg.a > > > <http://www.lightbulbemporium.com/maxlite_51204_ml_f40t10_850_rscg.a>> > > > > > > > sp > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > <http://www.lightbulbemporium.com/maxlite_51204_ml_f40t10_850_rscg.a > > > <http://www.lightbulbemporium.com/maxlite_51204_ml_f40t10_850_rscg.a> > > > <http://www.lightbulbemporium.com/maxlite_51204_ml_f40t10_850_rscg.a > > > <http://www.lightbulbemporium.com/maxlite_51204_ml_f40t10_850_rscg.a>> > > > > > > > sp> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > which > > > > > > > > has an even higher lumen > rating of > > > > 3700, > > > > > although > > > > > > not much higher than > > > > > > > > the 3550 rating but > every little bit > > > > helps > > > > > > especially since the > > > > > > > > MaxLite bulb was a lower > price than > > > > the > > > > > Sylvania > > > > > > bulb. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > As you will see on this > page > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > http://www.lightbulbsdirect.com/Merchant2/merchant.mvc?page=001/CTGY > > > <http://www.lightbulbsdirect.com/Merchant2/merchant.mvc?page=001/CTGY> > > > > > <http://www.lightbulbsdirect.com/Merchant2/merchant.mvc?page=001/CTGY > > > <http://www.lightbulbsdirect.com/Merchant2/merchant.mvc?page=001/CTGY>> > > > > > > > /F > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > <http://www.lightbulbsdirect.com/Merchant2/merchant.mvc?page=001/CTG > > > <http://www.lightbulbsdirect.com/Merchant2/merchant.mvc?page=001/CTG> > > > <http://www.lightbulbsdirect.com/Merchant2/merchant.mvc?page=001/CTG > > > <http://www.lightbulbsdirect.com/Merchant2/merchant.mvc?page=001/CTG>> > > > > > > > Y/F> > > > > > > > > S+Fluo > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > <http://www.lightbulbsdirect.com/Merchant2/merchant.mvc?page=001/CTG > > > <http://www.lightbulbsdirect.com/Merchant2/merchant.mvc?page=001/CTG> > > > <http://www.lightbulbsdirect.com/Merchant2/merchant.mvc?page=001/CTG > > > <http://www.lightbulbsdirect.com/Merchant2/merchant.mvc?page=001/CTG>> > > > > > > > Y/ > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > <http://www.lightbulbsdirect.com/Merchant2/merchant.mvc?page=001/CTG > > > <http://www.lightbulbsdirect.com/Merchant2/merchant.mvc?page=001/CTG> > > > <http://www.lightbulbsdirect.com/Merchant2/merchant.mvc?page=001/CTG > > > <http://www.lightbulbsdirect.com/Merchant2/merchant.mvc?page=001/CTG>> > > > > > > > Y/> > > > > > > > > FS+Fluo> > > > > > > > > rescent > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > The second bulb down > would be similar > > > > to > > > > > yours, > > > > > > except we do not know > > > > > > > > the lumen or color > spectrum rating on > > > > your > > > > > bulb, > > > > > > unless that link I > > > > > > > > gave above is actually > your bulb and > > > > then > > > > > it > > > > > > would be the same as this > > > > > > > > one. The specs on it > are: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > T-10 Fluorescent > > > > > > > > 40 Watts > > > > > > > > Length: 48" > > > > > > > > Medium Bi-Pin Base > > > > > > > > Color: 5000K > Temperature > > > > > > > > Initial Lumens: 3550 > > > > > > > > CRI: 84 > > > > > > > > Average Life: 20,000 > Hours > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > The Color spectrum of > 5000K (Kelvin) is > > > > OK > > > > > but > > > > > > 6500K would be much > > > > > > > better. > > > > > > > > The Lumens of 3550 is > the actual amount > > > > of > > > > > > *light* > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > The next bulb down from > that one is a > > > > T-12, > > > > > which > > > > > > will also fit in > > > > > > > > your fixture but they > are bigger > > > > diameter > > > > > bulbs > > > > > > and this one actually > > > > > > > > puts out less light > (lumens). Here are > > > > the > > > > > > specs: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > T-12 Fluorescent > > > > > > > > 40 Watts > > > > > > > > Length: 48" > > > > > > > > Base: Medium Bi-Pin > Base > > > > > > > > Initial Lumens: 2200 > > > > > > > > Average Life: 20,000 > Hours > > > > > > > > Color Temperature: > 5000K > > > > > > > > CRI: 92 > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > It has the same Color > spectrum but > > > > only > > > > > 2200 > > > > > > lumens so the above T-10 > > > > > > > > bulb has around 50% more > lumens > > > > (light) > > > > > coming > > > > > > out of it. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Now, if you scroll down > to the second > > > > from > > > > > the > > > > > > bottom on the page, > > > > > > > > you'll see the Verilux > Instant-Sun > > > > T-12 > > > > > bulb > > > > > > which has a higher Kelvin > > > > > > > > rating but it doesn't > list the lumens > > > > so > > > > > this > > > > > > needs to be checked out > > > > > > > > further. While the > higher K rating is > > > > good, > > > > > if it > > > > > > goes back down to > > > > > > > > only 2200 lumens, > instead of the 3550 > > > > lumens > > > > > of > > > > > > the first referenced > > > > > > > > bulb above, then I would > probably go > > > > with > > > > > the > > > > > > 3550 lumens, 5000K bulb > > > > > > > > over the 6280K bulb if > the lumens were > > > > a > > > > > LOT > > > > > > less. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > (START SNIP) > > > > > > > > Engineered to reproduce > all the colors > > > > and > > > > > > balance of natural light, > > > > > > > > VeriluxR full spectrum > fluorescent > > > > tubes > > > > > feature > > > > > > Trucolite Phosphor > > > > > > > > TechnologyT which > includes the use of > > > > a > > > > > stable, > > > > > > custom blend of earth > > > > > > > > phosphors that create > bright, balanced > > > > full > > > > > > spectrum light. > > > > > > > > T-12 Fluorescent > > > > > > > > 40 Watts > > > > > > > > Length: 48" > > > > > > > > Color Temperature: > 6280K > > > > > > > > CRI: 94 > > > > > > > > Medium Bi-Pin Base > > > > > > > > (END SNIP) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > So, as you can see, > there's a few > > > > things to > > > > > look > > > > > > for when shopping for > > > > > > > > new replacement bulbs. > Look for the > > > > 5000K > > > > > to > > > > > > 6500K bulbs with the > > > > > > > > higher lumen rating for > the dollar and > > > > you > > > > > should > > > > > > be good. Note that a > > > > > > > > 3550 or 3700 lumen bulb > will put out > > > > nearly > > > > > twice > > > > > > as much light as a > > > > > > > > 2000 lumen bulb so it > can be easy to > > > > > increase > > > > > > your lighting without > > > > > > > > increasing the wattage. > DO NOT try to > > > > use HO > > > > > or > > > > > > VHO bulbs... which > > > > > > > > look similar but have > much higher > > > > wattage, > > > > > well > > > > > > over the 40W bulbs you > > > > > > > > now have. These other HO > and VHO bulbs > > > > have > > > > > > different pin arrangements > > > > > > > > so they will not fit in > your fixture > > > > anyhow > > > > > but I > > > > > > just wanted to save > > > > > > > > you a trip. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Last but not least, if > you're handy, > > > > you > > > > > could > > > > > > even take the bulbs out > > > > > > > > of your fixtures and > line the insides > > > > of > > > > > your > > > > > > fixtures with nice and > > > > > > > > crisp and flat aluminum > foil (shiny > > > > side > > > > > exposed) > > > > > > which will also > > > > > > > > help. Using double stick > tape and then > > > > > carefully > > > > > > applying the foil so > > > > > > > > it does not wrinkle too > much will work > > > > > well... > > > > > > especially if the > > > > > > > > inside of your fixture > is black. A > > > > white > > > > > > reflector is good but a > > > > > > > > mirrored reflector, like > that created > > > > by > > > > > the > > > > > > shiny side of foil, is > > > > > > > > MUCH better than a black > reflector. > > > > Most > > > > > black > > > > > > fixtures do at least > > > > > > > > have white reflector > areas. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > > > > > > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>> > > > > > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > > > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>>> > > > > > > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>> > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>>>> > > > > > > > (Links to any articles > referenced in > > > > > > > > above reply are listed > on the right > > > > side, > > > > > > alphabetically under Labels > > > > > > > > and also under Archives > by Year, > > > > Month) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -----Original > Message----- > > > > > > > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On > > > > > > Behalf Of erikaandnewton > > > > > > > > Sent: Tuesday, November > 10, 2009 10:17 > > > > AM > > > > > > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > > Subject: [AquaticLife] > Re: > > > > > wisteria/lighting > > > > > > previous > > > > > > > > question/response > revisited > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > << When you say > "two strips" do > > > > you > > > > > have > > > > > > two 4' long two-bulb fixtures > > > > > > > > already or something > else?>> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > i have two 4' single > bulb strip > > > > lights. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> What kind of > lighting do you > > > > > currently > > > > > > have? Look at the bulbs and > > > > > > > > >> there should be > some kind of > > > > > writing on > > > > > > one of the ends. Give us > > > > > > > > >> that info if > you cannot > > > > decipher > > > > > it > > > > > > yourself.<< > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > one bulb is a f40 t10 > > > > > > > > the other one is a > sylvania daylight > > > > bulb > > > > > also > > > > > > f40 > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> It's probably > 21" tall, since > > > > a > > > > > common > > > > > > measurement for a 75G is > > > > > > > > >> 48"x18"x21" > Tall.>> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > it is 21 inches tall > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > erika wilmington de usa > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ------------------------------------ > > > > > > > > > > > > Please, DELETE this line and > EVERYTHING below it > > > > when > > > > > replying, Thank > > > > > > You. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> > > > > > > ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , > > > > .·´¯`·..><((((º> > > > > > > PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, > DELETE all TEXT > > > > that > > > > > is NOT > > > > > > important to the reply & if > CHANGING the > > > > TOPIC of > > > > > the original message > > > > > > MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. > "new subject > > > > (was > > > > > re: old subject)" <- > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. > > > > > > , > .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. > > > > > > We Thank You in Advance for Your > HELP in this > > > > matter. > > > > > > > > > > > > If you do not want all of the > groups emails, > > > > instead > > > > > of unsubscribing, > > > > > > you can change your delivery > option by clicking > > > > on > > > > > "Edit My > > > > > > Membership" on the home page. > > > > > > > > > > > > Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com > > > <mailto:aquaticlife-digest%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > <mailto:aquaticlife-digest%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > to receive the digest, which > includes up to 25 > > > > posts > > > > > at a time in a > > > > > > single email > > > > > > > > > > > > Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com > > > <mailto:aquaticlife-nomail%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > <mailto:aquaticlife-nomail%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > for the No E-Mail option where you > will still be > > > > able > > > > > to read messages > > > > > > on the group and post replies. > > > > > > > > > > > > Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com > > > <mailto:aquaticlife-normal%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > <mailto:aquaticlife-normal%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > to receive individual > e-mails.Yahoo! Groups > > > > Links > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > AquaticLife-fullfeatured@yahoogroups.com > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife-fullfeatured%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife-fullfeatured%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ------------------------------------ > > > > > > > > > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING > below it when replying, > > > > > Thank You. > > > > > > > > > > ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> > > > > > ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , > .·´¯`·..><((((º> > > > > > PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, > DELETE all TEXT that > > > > is > > > > > NOT important to > > > > > the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC > of the original message MODIFY > > > > > the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new > subject (was re: old subject)" > > > > <- > > > > > > > > > > <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. > > > > > , > .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. > > > > > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP > in this matter. > > > > > > > > > > If you do not want all of the groups > emails, instead > > > > of > > > > > unsubscribing, you > > > > > can change your delivery option by > clicking on "Edit > > > > My > > > > > Membership" on the > > > > > home page. > > > > > > > > > > Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com > > > <mailto:aquaticlife-digest%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > <mailto:aquaticlife-digest%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > to receive the digest, which > > > > > includes up to 25 posts at a time in a > single email > > > > > > > > > > Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com > > > <mailto:aquaticlife-nomail%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > <mailto:aquaticlife-nomail%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > for the No E-Mail option where > > > > > you will still be able to read messages > on the group > > > > and > > > > > post replies. > > > > > > > > > > Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com > > > <mailto:aquaticlife-normal%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > <mailto:aquaticlife-normal%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > to receive individual > > > > > e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ------------------------------------ > > > > > > > > > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING > below it when replying, > > > > > Thank You. > > > > > > > > > > ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> > > > > > ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , > .·´¯`·..><((((º> > > > > > PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, > DELETE all TEXT that > > > > is > > > > > NOT important to the reply & if > CHANGING the TOPIC > > > > of > > > > > the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT > LINE -> > > > > i.e. "new > > > > > subject (was re: old subject)" <- > > > > > > > > > > <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. > > > > > , > .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. > > > > > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP > in this matter. > > > > > > > > > > If you do not want all of the groups > emails, instead > > > > of > > > > > unsubscribing, you can change your > delivery option by clicking on > > > > > "Edit My Membership" on the home page. > > > > > > > > > > Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com > > > <mailto:aquaticlife-digest%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > <mailto:aquaticlife-digest%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > to receive the digest, which includes > up to 25 posts > > > > at a > > > > > time in a single email > > > > > > > > > > Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com > > > <mailto:aquaticlife-nomail%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > <mailto:aquaticlife-nomail%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > for the No E-Mail option where you will > still be able > > > > to > > > > > read messages on the group and post > replies. > > > > > > > > > > Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com > > > <mailto:aquaticlife-normal%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > <mailto:aquaticlife-normal%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > to receive individual e-mails.Yahoo! > Groups Links > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > AquaticLife-fullfeatured@yahoogroups.com > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife-fullfeatured%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife-fullfeatured%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ------------------------------------ > > > > > > > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING > below it when replying, > > > > Thank You. > > > > > ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> > > > > ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , > .·´¯`·..><((((º> > > > > PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all > TEXT that is NOT > > > > important to the reply & if CHANGING the > TOPIC of the original > > > > message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. > "new subject (was re: old > > > > subject)" <- > <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. > > > > , > .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. > > > > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in > this matter. > > > > > > > > If you do not want all of the groups emails, > instead of > > > > unsubscribing, you can change your delivery > option by clicking on > > > > "Edit My Membership" on the home page. > > > > > > > > Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com > > > <mailto:aquaticlife-digest%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > <mailto:aquaticlife-digest%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > to receive the digest, which > > > > includes up to 25 posts at a time in a > single email > > > > > > > > Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com > > > <mailto:aquaticlife-nomail%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > <mailto:aquaticlife-nomail%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > for the No E-Mail option where > > > > you will still be able to read messages on > the group and post > > > > replies. > > > > > > > > Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com > > > <mailto:aquaticlife-normal%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > <mailto:aquaticlife-normal%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > to receive individual > > > > e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ------------------------------------ > > > > > > > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING > below it when replying, > > > > Thank You. > > > > > ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> > > > > ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , > .·´¯`·..><((((º> > > > > PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all > TEXT that is NOT > > > > important to the reply & if CHANGING the > TOPIC of the original > > > > message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. > "new subject (was re: old > > > > subject)" <- > <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. > > > > , > .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. > > > > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in > this matter. > > > > > > > > If you do not want all of the groups emails, > instead of > > > > unsubscribing, you can change your delivery > option by clicking on > > > > "Edit My Membership" on the home page. > > > > > > > > Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com > > > <mailto:aquaticlife-digest%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > <mailto:aquaticlife-digest%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > to receive the digest, which includes up to > 25 posts at a time in a > > > > single email > > > > > > > > Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com > > > <mailto:aquaticlife-nomail%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > <mailto:aquaticlife-nomail%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > for the No E-Mail option where you will > still be able to read > > > > messages on the group and post replies. > > > > > > > > Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com > > > <mailto:aquaticlife-normal%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > <mailto:aquaticlife-normal%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > to receive individual e-mails.Yahoo! Groups > Links > > > > > > > > > > > > AquaticLife-fullfeatured@yahoogroups.com > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife-fullfeatured%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife-fullfeatured%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ------------------------------------ > > > > > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYT<br/><br/>(Message over 64 KB, truncated)

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 44466	From: bill 1433	Date: 11/12/2009
Subject: Re: wisteria/lighting previous question/response revisited

Bulb Diameter Len, and now you see my problem. I haven't found any either. Also reading and studying all that you have sent me so far I come away from all of this with one single thought, is it worth it? With all this being said and it so close to the time for a visit from "Santa", I'm wondering if I should not put all you have taught me to better use by just getting something like a standard 55-gallon tank! These lights do cost a bit but there is not a huge different between size vs. cost from a 29 to a 55. Then to is the issue of what to do with the plastic covers I already have should I go to the all glass covers. Sell them, sure but to whom? Remember, I'm the guy that has a hard time just trying to find a place to buy fish around here, there just aren't that many places or people. No matter what I do, I promise to keep you posted. Thanks for all you've taught and helped me with, Bill --- On Thu, 11/12/09, Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@...> wrote: > From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@...> > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: wisteria/lighting previous question/response revisited > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Date: Thursday, November 12, 2009, 2:42 PM > Once again Bill.... you need to get > away from the "Watts" mindset.  It's > just not applicable with the wide array of bulbs available > nowadays.  That > link goes to a CFL light strip and 65 watts of CFL lighting > is a LOT, LOT, > LOT (3 LOTS) more lighting than 65 watts of an incandescent > bulb and a LOT, > LOT (2 LOTS) more lighting than a 65W normal fluorescent > bulb.  This would > probably increase your lighting by 10X's over what you have > now.  If you > just went with 20W (range) CFL's, you'd get 2-3X's more > light than you > currently have.  > > You still need to do some more research on your current > bulbs to find out > the specs on them.  Without knowing your current > specs, it's difficult to > know how much more lighting you might want/need. > > Since you got your fixture and bulbs from DFS, I just did a > search of '17 > watt fluorescent' and four bulbs came up.. one was a CFL so > that wasn't it > and the other three are below BUT none of them are T-4's... > in fact, so far, > I have not been able to find a T-4, 17W bulb > anywhere.  What are you > measuring to come up with the 1/2" figure?  Bulb > diameter, pin separation or > other??? > > http://www.drsfostersmith.com/product/prod_display.cfm?pcatid=3787 > (24", > T-8, 5500K, nothing for lumens) > > http://www.drsfostersmith.com/product/prod_display.cfm?pcatid=4491 > (24", > T-8, Actinic 420nm, nothing for lumens) > > http://www.drsfostersmith.com/product/prod_display.cfm?pcatid=4489 > (24", > T-8, 6500K, nothing for lumens) > > You need to take your bulb out and go to a local lighting > store (department) > or even the Walmart and see if they can give you more info > on it or at least > you might find identical sized bulbs that do have specs on > them so you can > be more informed about what you have. > > While I was at the DFS site, and since you previously > mentioned that you > have an All-Glass hood that came with the one bulb light > strip, I did a > search on DFS for 'All-Glass light' and found this link for > the only single > bulb light strip that All-Glass has on DFS' site. > > http://www.drsfostersmith.com/product/prod_display.cfm?pcatid=3793 > > It comes in 16" or 20" lengths.  There's a link to > "View compatible Bulbs" > in the Description tab, which brings up a page of bulbs and > ALL of the ones > compatible for the 20" strip are T-8 bulbs.  There are > a couple of dozen > bulbs listed so I didn't go through them and unfortunately, > they do NOT list > the wattage on that list so I wasn't able to find any 17W > bulbs without > checking a bunch of links.  Since it was an All-Glass > fixture, I did click > on the first All-Glass brand bulb which brought up this > page... > > http://www.drsfostersmith.com/product/prod_display.cfm?pcatid=12850 > > And you will see that there is either an 18", 15W bulb or a > 24", 17W bulb, > as well as others... and these are the 8000K bulbs which > were listed in the > description on the website link that you posted earlier > BUT.. these are ALL > T-8 bulbs, not T-4's so we're back to that spec issue > again.  This page does > call them 8000K Daylight, Full Spectrum bulbs so maybe they > are OK but I > wish that the DFS site would list lumens since that is a > critical, > need-to-know piece of information that is missing.  As > seen in my previous > posts, the same sized bulbs can have a lumen output that is > 50% to 100% > higher than a comparable bulb of the same size... and that > makes a HUGE > difference in lighting. > > Once again, take the bulb to your WalMart and compare > apples to apples and > find out exactly what size bulb you have and while there, > look at other > identical sized bulbs and look for the highest lumens in > the 5000K to 6500K > range, buy one and bring it home and see if it's a LOT > brighter than what > you now have.  If so, that might do the trick. > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed > on the right > side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives > by Year, Month) > > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] > On > Behalf Of bill 1433 > Sent: Thursday, November 12, 2009 12:12 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: wisteria/lighting previous > question/response > revisited > > Hi Amber, > > The links Len provided are very close BUT it's the ends of > the tube or pins > that worry me.  They are very close but "how"? > > Meaning this buying the tube, ok by mail?  Now what if > it doesn't work? > Rreturn a $10.00 tube the postage would cost more.  > I'm trying to work > backward now from Len's link, and get a manufacture so I > can buy around > here.  Also I'm getting made enough now to scrape the > whole thing and just > get a new All-Glass cover then maybe one of these: > > > http://www.drsfostersmith.com/product/prod_display.cfm?c=3578+3733+9654+9871 > &pcatid=9871 > > This link is not pointing to the exact Coralife product I > want at Doctors > its # apn-16981, if you have their catalog but I can't make > it come up on > search at their site.  It is a single rated at 65 > watts and is 24". > > Bill > --- On Thu, 11/12/09, Amber Berglund <arberglund@...> > wrote: > > > From: Amber Berglund <arberglund@...> > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: wisteria/lighting > previous > question/response revisited > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > Date: Thursday, November 12, 2009, 12:59 PM > > Bill does have T-4's if I remember > > correctly, maybe one of those 20watt > > bulbs will work for him and provide more lumens than > his > > current bulbs do. > > Did you check those links out Bill? ;) > > > > Amber > > > > Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > > > > > > Just because a fixture currently has a T-8 or > T-10, > > does not mean it > > > cannot > > > use a T-12, and vice versa. They are all medium > bi-pin > > bulbs, meaning they > > > all will fit and work UNLESS the reflector is so > tight > > that a T-12 cannot > > > fit inside the fixture but I haven't seen this as > a > > problem in the past. > > > Usually, going with a T-8 or T-10, instead of a > T-12 > > will give more lumens > > > but in the case of this particular sized bulb, > the > > T-12 may be the better > > > option. Of course, we still need more details on > > Bill's exact bulb. We > > > still do not know anything except that it's 17 > > watts... nothing about > > > lumens, K rating or anything else for comparison > > purposes. As Johnny 5 > > > once > > > said... "Need more input!" (I have no clue why > that > > OLD movie line popped > > > into my head and I can't blame it on drugs since > I > > didn't/don't do them... > > > and as far as I know, beer doesn't cause acid > > flashbacks. LOL > > > http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Short_Circuit > > > <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Short_Circuit>) > > > > > > Now... thinking back a little. Bill may have > T-4's and > > if he does, those > > > use the miniature bi-pin base and the above > larger > > T-#'s with medium > > > bi-pin > > > base would not work. If this is the case, there > are > > other options > > > listed on > > > this page... > > > > http://www.servicelighting.com/T4-Straight-Linear-Fluorescent-Light-Bulbs > > > > > > <http://www.servicelighting.com/T4-Straight-Linear-Fluorescent-Light-Bulbs> > > > including this 20W, 6400K, 1340 Lumens bulb - > > > > http://www.servicelighting.com/Bulbrite-85220-F20T4-64K-F20T4-D-T4-Straight- > > > > > > <http://www.servicelighting.com/Bulbrite-85220-F20T4-64K-F20T4-D-T4-Straight > -> > > > Linear-Fluorescent-Light-Bulb, which sounds like > a > > pretty good bulb > > > from the > > > specs and actually provides more lumens than any > of > > the T-12's previously > > > listed. > > > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > (Links to any articles referenced in above reply > are > > listed on the right > > > side, alphabetically under Labels and also under > > Archives by Year, Month) > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On > > > Behalf Of Amber Berglund > > > Sent: Thursday, November 12, 2009 10:29 AM > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: wisteria/lighting > > previous > > > question/response > > > revisited > > > > > > Bill has smaller bulbs, I think they are not easy > to > > find in a higher > > > wattage output, which is what he was looking for > a few > > months back. > > > > > > Amber > > > > > > Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > > > > > > > > I don't know what you mean by this. Please > > elaborate. What size tube? > > > > I posted about several different bulbs but > all > > were T-12's, which is > > > > one of the most common sizes. > > > > > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>> > > > (Links to any articles referenced in > > > > above reply are listed on the right side, > > alphabetically under Labels > > > > and also under Archives by Year, Month) > > > > > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On > > Behalf Of bill 1433 > > > > Sent: Thursday, November 12, 2009 8:59 AM > > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: > wisteria/lighting > > previous > > > > question/response revisited > > > > > > > > Yes Len, > > > > > > > > But its finding that size tube with more of > > anything that's the problem. > > > > > > > > Bill > > > > > > > > --- On Wed, 11/11/09, Lenny V. aka > GoldLenny > > <GoldLenny@... > > > > > <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com> > > > > <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com>> > wrote: > > > > > > > > > From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@... > > > > > <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com> > > > > <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com>> > > > > > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: > > wisteria/lighting previous > > > > > question/response revisited > > > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > Date: Wednesday, November 11, 2009, > 5:22 PM > > Well, if you only have > > > > > 17W, then you could definitely do > better > > with the 20W, higher lumen, > > > > > better K rating bulbs that I > mentioned. > > Considering the lumen > > > > > ratings of fluorescent bulbs I've > looked at, > > your 17W bulbs might > > > > > only have 500-700 lumens where the BEST > 20W > > bulb (below) has > > > > > 1075 lumens so you > > > > > could possibly increase your lighting > by 50% > > to 100% just by > > > > > changing to that bulb. At least, with > that > > bulb, you'll be in the > > > > > low-light range for plants on the 20G > but > > the 29G will need some work. > > > > > > > > > > Of course, you should find out what > the > > lumens and K ratings are on > > > > > the bulbs you have so you'll know if > you are > > getting a small jump or > > > > > a BIG jump in lighting just by changing > your > > bulbs. Check your local > > > > > WalMart for bulbs. My nearby WalMart > > SuperCenter has a really big > > > > > assortment of fluorescent tubes and > they > > were cheaper than the Home > > > > > Depot. > > > > > > > > > > Something else I'm thinking about for > you is > > going with 18" > > > > > light-sticks on > > > > > each end of your 29G tank or front or > back > > (back would hide it best > > > > > but you decide your best aesthetics) > and > > you'd have to make a DIY > > > > > reflector for it (white poster board > and > > scotch tape would work) and > > > > > that would get more lighting down to > the > > bottom level plants in the > > > > > 29G. > > > > > > > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > > > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>> > > > (Links to any articles > > > > > referenced in above reply are listed on > the > > right side, > > > > > alphabetically under Labels and also > under > > Archives by Year, Month) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] > > > > > On > > > > > Behalf Of bill 1433 > > > > > Sent: Wednesday, November 11, 2009 3:42 > PM > > > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: > > wisteria/lighting previous > > > > > question/response revisited > > > > > > > > > > It is what it is type of thing Len. > Site > > says one thing but stamped > > > > > or printed right on the tube is at 17 > > watts. > > > > > > > > > > Bill > > > > > > > > > > --- On Wed, 11/11/09, Lenny V. aka > GoldLenny > > <GoldLenny@... > > > > > <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com> > > > > <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com>> > > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny > <GoldLenny@... > > > > > <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com> > > > > <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com>> > > > > > > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: > > wisteria/lighting > > > > > previous > > > > > > question/response revisited > > > > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > Date: Wednesday, November 11, > 2009, > > 2:16 PM The > > > > > problem might be this > > > > > > statement in the description... > > > > > > > > > > > > "... Hoods include 8000ºK > bulb... > > ...20W, 24"..." > > > > > > > > > > > > That's getting into the higher > > green/blue Kelvin > > > > > range... > > > > > > closer to the > > > > > > 10,000K actinic type bulbs... than > the > > 5000K to 6500K > > > > > "Daylight" bulbs > > > > > > that provide full spectrum > lighting. > > It's also only > > > > > a 20W bulb > > > > > > (according to the DFS site, > although > > you stated it was > > > > > only 17W so > > > > > > double check this) so it's only > 1WPG on > > the 20G and > > > > > only 0.69WPG on > > > > > > the 29G. Of course, if the bulb > puts > > out a LOT more > > > > > lumens (you would > > > > > > have to do more checking up on the > bulb > > to find this), > > > > > that would help > > > > > > a little but not much. I think you > need > > at least > > > > > 1WPG to have success > > > > > > with low-light plants, although > > floating plants like > > > > > Anacharis, > > > > > > Hornwort, Duckweed, etc., would be > up > > close to the > > > > > light and benefit > > > > > > from CO2 from the air and would do > OK > > with your > > > > > lighting... but then > > > > > > they would also block out the > lighting > > to the rest of > > > > > the tank. > > > > > > > > > > > > I don't see a lot of options, as > far as > > T-8 bulbs are > > > > > concerned for > > > > > > this size fixture but I see a few > > different T-12's... > > > > > such as... > > > > > > > > > > > > (My rating is: GOOD - but see > BETTER > > and BEST options > > > > > below... at > > > > > > least as far as the bulbs on this > site > > are concerned) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > http://www.servicelighting.com/Sylvania-22119-F20T12-DSGN50-T12-Straig > > > > > <http://www.servicelighting.com/Sylvania-22119-F20T12-DSGN50-T12-Straig> > > > > > > > <http://www.servicelighting.com/Sylvania-22119-F20T12-DSGN50-T12-Strai > > > > > <http://www.servicelighting.com/Sylvania-22119-F20T12-DSGN50-T12-Strai> > > > > g> > > > > > > ht-Lin > > > > > > ear-Fluorescent-Light-Bulb > > > > > > > > > > > > Light Output: 880 lumens > > > > > > Refers to the literal measure of > the > > light-output of a > > > > > particular > > > > > > light bulb, measured in the number > of > > lumens. > > > > > > > > > > > > Energy Used: 20 watts > > > > > > "Watts" is the term applied to > the > > amount of energy > > > > > required and used > > > > > > by a particular light bulb. It is > an > > international > > > > > system unit of > > > > > > power equal to one joule per > second. > > Contrary to > > > > > popular belief, the > > > > > > wattage of a bulb does not > directly > > measure the > > > > > brightness; the > > > > > > "lumens" of a light is what > defines the > > actual light > > > > > output. > > > > > > > > > > > > Average Lifetime: 9,000 hours > > > > > > This refers to an average > lifetime > > rating based on > > > > > large quantities in > > > > > > test groups. This testing takes > into > > account usage of > > > > > 3 hours per > > > > > > start for fluorescent lamps and > 10 > > hours per start for > > > > > HID lamps. > > > > > > > > > > > > Bulb Type: T12 > > > > > > The "Bulb Type" is typically a > > combination of the > > > > > style of bulb as > > > > > > well as the width of the bulb. > Usually, > > the first > > > > > couple letters will > > > > > > indicate the type; "G" would > indicate > > "Globe", "PAR" > > > > > would indicate > > > > > > "Parabolic Reflector"... The > numbers > > indicate the > > > > > diameter of the > > > > > > light bulb in eighths of an inch; > a > > "G40" would be a > > > > > "Globe" style > > > > > > that is "5 inches" in diameter. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Base Type: Medium Bi-Pin > > > > > > The "Base" of a light bulb is the > part > > that either > > > > > screws or snaps > > > > > > into a receptacle. Base Type > > terminology may indicate > > > > > common > > > > > > descriptive words like "Medium" > or > > "Candelabra", or > > > > > may even contain > > > > > > numeric codes that signify size > and > > variety, like > > > > > "E26" or "2GX13". > > > > > > > > > > > > Color Temperature: 5,000K > > > > > > Correlated Color Temperature (CCT) > is a > > specification > > > > > of the color > > > > > > appearance of a lamp, relating > its > > color to that of a > > > > > reference source > > > > > > heated to a particular > temperature, > > measured in > > > > > degrees Kelvin (K). It > > > > > > generally measures the "warmth" > or > > "coolness" of light > > > > > source > > > > > > appearance. > > > > > > > > > > > > CRI: 90 > > > > > > CRI refers to the "Color > Rendering > > Index" of a light > > > > > bulb. > > > > > > CRI measures a > > > > > > light source and grades its > ability to > > render the > > > > > color of objects > > > > > > "correctly," as compared with a > > reference source with > > > > > comparable color > > > > > > temperature. 100 is perfect > rendering. > > > > > > > > > > > > Length: 24 inches > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > (BETTER - slightly higher lumens > and > > higher 6500K > > > > > rating) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > http://www.servicelighting.com/Westinghouse-36516-F20T12-FS-T12-Straig > > > > > <http://www.servicelighting.com/Westinghouse-36516-F20T12-FS-T12-Straig> > > > > > > > <http://www.servicelighting.com/Westinghouse-36516-F20T12-FS-T12-Strai > > > > > <http://www.servicelighting.com/Westinghouse-36516-F20T12-FS-T12-Strai> > > > > g> > > > > > > ht-Lin > > > > > > ear-Fluorescent-Light-Bulb > > > > > > > > > > > > Light Output: 900 lumens > > > > > > Energy Used: 20 watts > > > > > > Average Lifetime: 10,000 hours > > > > > > Bulb Type: T12 > > > > > > Base Type: Medium Bi-Pin > > > > > > Color Temperature: 6,500K > > > > > > CRI: 90 > > > > > > Length: 24 inches > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > (BEST, of these three - around > 20% > > higher lumens and > > > > > good 6,500K > > > > > > rating, although it does have a > lower > > CRI rating.. but > > > > > still > > > > > > passing) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > http://www.servicelighting.com/Sylvania-22083-F20T12-D-T12-Straight-Li > > > > > <http://www.servicelighting.com/Sylvania-22083-F20T12-D-T12-Straight-Li> > > > > > > > <http://www.servicelighting.com/Sylvania-22083-F20T12-D-T12-Straight-L > > > > > <http://www.servicelighting.com/Sylvania-22083-F20T12-D-T12-Straight-L> > > > > i> > > > > > > near-F > > > > > > luorescent-Light-Bulb > > > > > > > > > > > > Light Output: 1,075 lumens > > > > > > Energy Used: 20 watts > > > > > > Average Lifetime: 9,000 hours > > > > > > Bulb Type: T12 > > > > > > Base Type: Medium Bi-Pin > > > > > > Color Temperature: 6,500K > > > > > > CRI: 76 > > > > > > Length: 24 inches > > > > > > > > > > > > Compare the above three to what is > sold > > as a > > > > > plant/aquarium light by > > > > > > the same company, which has a > lower > > lumens, MUCH lower > > > > > CRI rating and > > > > > > does not list the K rating other > than > > to say "Plant" > > > > > which is a > > > > > > subjective rating established by > the > > manufacturer. > > > > > > > > > > > > (WORST) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > http://www.servicelighting.com/Westinghouse-36411-F20T12-PL-T12-Straig > > > > > <http://www.servicelighting.com/Westinghouse-36411-F20T12-PL-T12-Straig> > > > > > > > <http://www.servicelighting.com/Westinghouse-36411-F20T12-PL-T12-Strai > > > > > <http://www.servicelighting.com/Westinghouse-36411-F20T12-PL-T12-Strai> > > > > g> > > > > > > ht-Lin > > > > > > ear-Fluorescent-Light-Bulb > > > > > > > > > > > > Light Output: 700 lumens (over 30% > less > > lighting > > > > > than the 1,075 > > > > > > lumens bulb > > > > > > above) > > > > > > Energy Used: 20 watts > > > > > > Average Lifetime: 10,000 hours > > > > > > Bulb Type: T12 > > > > > > Base Type: Medium Bi-Pin > > > > > > Color: Plant > > > > > > CRI: 61 > > > > > > Length: 24 inches > > > > > > > > > > > > If any of the above have much > better > > lumens than your > > > > > current > > > > > > lighting... > > > > > > and they all have better K > ratings, > > then any of them > > > > > would be better > > > > > > for you... but you would still be > stuck > > with only 20 > > > > > watts but it's > > > > > > the LUMENS and K rating that count > more > > than watts. > > > > > You need to find > > > > > > out the lumens on your bulb. Try > to > > find it on the > > > > > DFS site and let > > > > > > us know. > > > > > > > > > > > > You should look at the > AHSupply.com > > place for a > > > > > retrofit kit so you > > > > > > can use CFL's in your current > hood. > > That would > > > > > probably be your least > > > > > > expensive option. I know you don't > like > > electricity > > > > > but I'm sure you > > > > > > know someone that could do this > for > > you... on the > > > > > cheap... or over a > > > > > > 6-pack. > > > > > > > > > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > > > > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>> > > > (Links to > > > > > any articles > > > > > > referenced in above reply are > listed on > > the right > > > > > side, alphabetically > > > > > > under Labels and also under > Archives by > > Year, Month) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > > > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] > > > > > > On > > > > > > Behalf Of bill 1433 > > > > > > Sent: Wednesday, November 11, 2009 > 9:33 > > AM > > > > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: > > wisteria/lighting > > > > > previous > > > > > > question/response > > > > > > revisited > > > > > > > > > > > > Hi \\Steve// > > > > > > > > > > > > At this point, and also to refresh > your > > mind, and > > > > > anyone > > > > > > else on the group > > > > > > that may have interest. This all > got > > started with > > > > > my > > > > > > search for a tube that > > > > > > would allow me more light output > from > > an All Glass > > > > > Plastic > > > > > > hood and light. > > > > > > This unit comes with a "color type > tube > > at 17 watts > > > > > that is > > > > > > only 24 inches > > > > > > long. This is for a 20/29-gallon > tank. > > I was stupid enough to buy > > > > > > two of them, one for each tank. > For > > further inspection > > > > > here > > > > > > is the light: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > http://www.drsfostersmith.com/product/prod_display.cfm?pcatid=13447 > > > > > <http://www.drsfostersmith.com/product/prod_display.cfm?pcatid=13447> > > > > <http://www.drsfostersmith.com/product/prod_display.cfm?pcatid=13447 > > > > > <http://www.drsfostersmith.com/product/prod_display.cfm?pcatid=13447>> > > > > > > > > > > > > For those that would like to > aggravate > > themselves > > > > > further, > > > > > > I can also state > > > > > > that these hoods are very > conducive to > > growing Black Algae! > > > > > > > > > > > > Summoning up, I should have only > > purchased an > > > > > All-Glass > > > > > > cover and then > > > > > > probably a double tube light of > > sufficient wattage to > > > > > bring > > > > > > me up to the > > > > > > recommended 2 or 3 watts per > gallon. > > > > > > > > > > > > Ya live and learn, > > > > > > > > > > > > Bill > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > --- On Tue, 11/10/09, Steve Szabo > > <steve@... > > > > > <mailto:steve%40familyszabo.com> > > > > <mailto:steve%40familyszabo.com>> > > > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > From: Steve Szabo <steve@... > > > > > <mailto:steve%40familyszabo.com> > > > > <mailto:steve%40familyszabo.com>> > > > > > > > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] > Re: > > wisteria/lighting > > > > > > previous > > > > > > > question/response revisited > > > > > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > Date: Tuesday, November 10, > 2009, > > 11:50 PM Bill, > > > > > you > > > > > > got it right! The > > > > > > > T numbers represent the > diameter > > of the bulb in > > > > > 1/8" > > > > > > increments. A T4 > > > > > > > is a bulb 1/2" in diameter, > T5 is > > 5/8", t8 is > > > > > 1" and > > > > > > a t12 is 1 1/2". > > > > > > > As I recall, the F is the > wattage > > of the bulb. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Lumens, not usually stated on > the > > bulb is the > > > > > actual > > > > > > amount of light > > > > > > > coming from the bulb. It > really > > does not have > > > > > anything > > > > > > to do with > > > > > > > watts, though more watts will > give > > you more > > > > > lumens, > > > > > > but, also the > > > > > > > phosphors used in the bulb > affect > > the amount of > > > > > lumen > > > > > > output. Lumens > > > > > > > and lux are often used > > interchangeably, but they > > > > > are > > > > > > really different > > > > > > > measurements. Lux is the > measure > > of illumination > > > > > over > > > > > > a given area. It > > > > > > > may actually be more > important to > > aquarists > > > > > raising > > > > > > plants than the > > > > > > > lumen output. Lux is what is > > measured by a light > > > > > > meter, for anyone who > > > > > > > happens to know what they > are--not > > often seen > > > > > with > > > > > > today's cameras and > > > > > > > photographers. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Color temperature is > important. > > Average daylight > > > > > > (except may in > > > > > > > Amber's area where they have > 6 > > months of > > > > > darkness) has > > > > > > a color > > > > > > > temperature of 5500-6000. > > > > > > > An overcast day can have a > color > > temperature of > > > > > 6500. > > > > > > As mentioned > > > > > > > earlier, plants need light in > two > > color > > > > > spectrums, > > > > > > and, actually they > > > > > > > are rather narrow spans of > > wavelengths they > > > > > benefit > > > > > > from. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I thought I had a bookmark > > explaining this, but > > > > > I > > > > > > can't find it > > > > > > > quickly (over 400K of > bookmarks, > > and things have > > > > > a > > > > > > tendency to get > > > > > > > lost), however, some > judicial > > Googling will gain > > > > > you > > > > > > the information. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > \\Steve// > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > > > > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] > > > > > > > On > > > > > > > Behalf Of bill 1433 > > > > > > > Sent: Tuesday, November 10, > 2009 > > 10:20 PM > > > > > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] > Re: > > wisteria/lighting > > > > > > previous > > > > > > > question/response revisited > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Yes, Amber > > > > > > > > > > > > > > It was I, looking for the > original > > information > > > > > and > > > > > > also looked back on > > > > > > > \\Steve//'s post at group to > try > > and find. Ray > > > > > had > > > > > > mentioned all this > > > > > > > the other day saying that he > > thought the posting > > > > > came > > > > > > from \\Steve//. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I was not successful in my > search. > > Also, for me > > > > > the > > > > > > most important > > > > > > > part was a link to a chart > which > > showed you > > > > > exactly, > > > > > > or explained > > > > > > > exactly the "T" > > > > > > > factor stands for. For > instance, > > T-4 would be a > > > > > tube > > > > > > that is a half > > > > > > > inch wide, or close to > > it-----------I think. > > > > > All > > > > > > this is my own > > > > > > > fault. In my interest to > acquire > > and learn > > > > > about > > > > > > lighting,I went > > > > > > > through and studied the > applied > > links but being > > > > > > ol'bill, I never > > > > > > > bookmarked them. > > > > > > > Then to further > > > > > > > compound the problem, I > deleted > > the original > > > > > message > > > > > > that it came > > > > > > > from. In hind-sight you > could > > probably chalk > > > > > this > > > > > > all up to felonious > > > > > > > stupidity on my part. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Bill---where its always a > good day > > if I learn > > > > > > something new! > > > > > > > > > > > > > > --- On Tue, 11/10/09, Amber > > Berglund <arberglund@... > > > > > <mailto:arberglund%40gmail.com> > > > > <mailto:arberglund%40gmail.com>> > > > > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > From: Amber Berglund <arberglund@... > > > > > <mailto:arberglund%40gmail.com> > > > > <mailto:arberglund%40gmail.com>> > > > > > > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] > Re: > > wisteria/lighting > > > > > > previous > > > > > > > question/response revisited > > > > > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > Date: Tuesday, November 10, > 2009, > > 9:30 PM > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I believe it was Steve who > posted > > a link about > > > > > lumens > > > > > > months back when > > > > > > > (I think it was maybe Bill > asking) > > about lighting > > > > > for > > > > > > planted > > > > > > > aquariums. > > > > > > > Plants require 2 different > > spectrums of light to > > > > > > properly produce > > > > > > > either leaves or flowers (red > is > > more for flower > > > > > > production and blue > > > > > > > is more for growth, but for > the > > best growing you > > > > > want > > > > > > a mixture of > > > > > > > BOTH colors). > > > > > > > So in reality you would want > a > > light that appears > > > > > more > > > > > > brown/reddish > > > > > > > in coloring and a blue/white > > coloring as well, > > > > > but > > > > > > they now have bulbs > > > > > > > that have BOTH spectrums > built in > > (I'm sure they > > > > > don't > > > > > > work as well as > > > > > > > it would to have 2 different > bulbs > > one mostly red > > > > > and > > > > > > the other mostly > > > > > > > blue on the color spectrum). > > > > > > > Let me see if I still have > the > > link bookmarked. > > > > > > > What I was trying to say is > that > > Kelvin does not > > > > > tell > > > > > > you what color > > > > > > > spectrum the light REALLY is, > it's > > actually > > > > > measuring > > > > > > it's light > > > > > > > output color according to how > the > > human eyes > > > > > perceive > > > > > > it. So 6500 > > > > > > > kelvin in general is what > most > > plants will > > > > > prefer > > > > > > because that is a > > > > > > > mixture of both red and blue > > spectrums (In MOST > > > > > bulbs) > > > > > > unfortunately > > > > > > > not all light bulb > manufactures > > have to use the > > > > > exact > > > > > > same chart for > > > > > > > their colors, so they will > have > > different colors > > > > > than > > > > > > another bulb > > > > > > > that says it's 6500 Kelvin. > what > > you really need > > > > > to > > > > > > read is the color > > > > > > > chart on the box, not what > lumens > > it says it is. > > > > > > > (still searching for link, > LOL). > > > > > > > > > > > > > > This isn't the right link but > it > > discusses the > > > > > > kelvin/lumen problems a > > > > > > > little bit, still looking for > the > > link that > > > > > showed the > > > > > > charts and what > > > > > > > to look for in the color > charts. > > > > > > > http://www.americanaquariumproducts.com/Aquarium_Lighting.html > > > > > <http://www.americanaquariumproducts.com/Aquarium_Lighting.html> > > > > <http://www.americanaquariumproducts.com/Aquarium_Lighting.html > > > > > <http://www.americanaquariumproducts.com/Aquarium_Lighting.html>> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Will post again when I find > the > > other link with > > > > > chart > > > > > > examples. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Amber > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Lenny V. aka GoldLenny > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I think it would be > false > > advertising or > > > > > > possibly > > > > > > > mis-advertising (if they > > > > > > > > do not know any better) > if a > > company lists > > > > > their > > > > > > bulbs > > > > > > > as 6500K and they > > > > > > > > aren't. The Kelvin > scale, > > just like Watts > > > > > and > > > > > > Lumens, > > > > > > > are ALL > > > > > > > > universal and > > > > > > > > scientifically > measurable > > scales BUT, as I > > > > > > showed > > > > > > > below, not all 40 watt > > > > > > > > bulbs put out the same > amount > > of light > > > > > (lumens) > > > > > > or in > > > > > > > the same color > > > > > > > > spectrum (Kelvin > rating). All > > 40 watt > > > > > bulbs, > > > > > > whether > > > > > > > incandescent, > > > > > > > > fluorescent, CFL, LED, > > Halogen, etc.... ALL > > > > > use > > > > > > > only/around 40 watts of > > > > > > > > electricity but their > light > > output can vary > > > > > > > dramatically. This is why > > > > > > > > fluorescent bulbs are so > much > > more > > > > > efficient > > > > > > than > > > > > > > incandescent bulbs and > > > > > > > > CFL's are even more > > efficient... as a 40W > > > > > > fluorescent > > > > > > > bulb puts out a LOT > > > > > > > > more light (lumens) than > a 40 > > watt > > > > > incandescent > > > > > > bulb > > > > > > > and a 40W CFL > > > > > > > > puts out > > > > > > > > more light (lumens) than > a > > 40W fluorescent > > > > > bulb. > > > > > > This > > > > > > > is why the OLD > > > > > > > > "Watts > > > > > > > > Per Gallon" rule simply > does > > not work any > > > > > more. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > BUT.. if three > different > > companies are > > > > > selling > > > > > > > standard T-10 fluorescent > > > > > > > > bulbs with the same > exact > > rating of 40W, > > > > > 3550 > > > > > > lumens > > > > > > > and 6500K > > > > > > > > rating... all > > > > > > > > three of those bulbs > should > > be VERY SIMILAR > > > > > if > > > > > > not > > > > > > > identical in the > > > > > > > > way they > > > > > > > > appear to our eyes > (subject > > to our own > > > > > degree of > > > > > > color > > > > > > > blindness, of > > > > > > > > course!) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > In the past, things > like > > "soft white", > > > > > "warm > > > > > > white", > > > > > > > "daylight", "plant > > > > > > > > grow", etc., type terms > were > > used and are > > > > > still > > > > > > used > > > > > > > but those are just > > > > > > > > simple words (not > subject to > > a scientific > > > > > scale) > > > > > > to > > > > > > > describe the Kelvin > > > > > > > > rating ranges but lumens > are > > just as > > > > > important > > > > > > since a > > > > > > > bulb could have a > > > > > > > > 6500K rating with only > 2200 > > lumens where > > > > > another > > > > > > bulb > > > > > > > could have a 6500K > > > > > > > > rating and 3550 or 3700 > > lumens and that > > > > > bulb > > > > > > would put > > > > > > > out over 50% more > > > > > > > > light (lumens) in the > same > > color spectrum > > > > > > (Kelvin > > > > > > > rating) so it would be a > > > > > > > > much more cost effective > bulb > > if it cost > > > > > the > > > > > > same > > > > > > > amount or only a little > > > > > > > > more. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I'm slightly confused > about > > the "red and > > > > > blue > > > > > > light > > > > > > > for your plants" as > > > > > > > > those two colors are on > > opposite ends of > > > > > the > > > > > > Kelvin > > > > > > > Scale with reds and > > > > > > > > ambers in the lower > numbers > > and greens and > > > > > blues > > > > > > in > > > > > > > the higher numbers. I > > > > > > > > think this is why you > would > > want a > > > > > mid-range > > > > > > (5000K to > > > > > > > 6500K) bulb as > > > > > > > > those > > > > > > > > are generally > considered > > "full spectrum" or > > > > > > "daylight" > > > > > > > bulbs. Here's a > > > > > > > > color picture of the > Kelvin > > Scale, > > > > > > > > http://www.bltdirect.com/images/colour-temperature.jpg > > > > > <http://www.bltdirect.com/images/colour-temperature.jpg> > > > > <http://www.bltdirect.com/images/colour-temperature.jpg > > > > > <http://www.bltdirect.com/images/colour-temperature.jpg>> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > <http://www.bltdirect.com/images/colour-temperature.jpg > > > > > <http://www.bltdirect.com/images/colour-temperature.jpg> > > > > <http://www.bltdirect.com/images/colour-temperature.jpg > > > > > <http://www.bltdirect.com/images/colour-temperature.jpg>>> > > > > > > > and you can > > > > > > > > visually > > > > > > > > see that the 5000K to > 6500K > > range is all > > > > > about > > > > > > the > > > > > > > same "color". I think > > > > > > > > this is also why > Actinic > > bulbs are usually > > > > > higher > > > > > > and > > > > > > > closer to the 10000K > > > > > > > > range and up... > apparently, > > the Kelvin > > > > > lighting > > > > > > scale > > > > > > > can go up to 20,000K > > > > > > > > (according to this > article > > about Reef Tanks > > > > > > > > > > > > > http://nh.craigslist.org/for/1423072406.html > > > <http://nh.craigslist.org/for/1423072406.html> > > > > <http://nh.craigslist.org/for/1423072406.html > > > <http://nh.craigslist.org/for/1423072406.html>> > > > > > > > > <http://nh.craigslist.org/for/1423072406.html > > > <http://nh.craigslist.org/for/1423072406.html> > > > > <http://nh.craigslist.org/for/1423072406.html > > > <http://nh.craigslist.org/for/1423072406.html>>> > > on, > > > > > > of > > > > > > > all places, > > > > > > > > Craigslist). > > > > > > > > Here is the page that > that > > the above photo > > > > > link > > > > > > came > > > > > > > from and it has a > > > > > > > > chart > > > > > > > > that also explains > things a > > little more also > > > > > and > > > > > > talks > > > > > > > about the CRI, yet > > > > > > > > another lighting term > (Color > > Rendition > > > > > Index). > > > > > > > > http://www.bltdirect.com/lampColourTemperatures.php > > > <http://www.bltdirect.com/lampColourTemperatures.php> > > > > <http://www.bltdirect.com/lampColourTemperatures.php > > > <http://www.bltdirect.com/lampColourTemperatures.php>> > > > > > > > > <http://www.bltdirect.com/lampColourTemperatures.php > > > <http://www.bltdirect.com/lampColourTemperatures.php> > > > > <http://www.bltdirect.com/lampColourTemperatures.php > > > <http://www.bltdirect.com/lampColourTemperatures.php>>> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > > > > > > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>> > > > > > > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>>> > (Links > > > > > > to any articles referenced in > > > > > > > > above reply are > > > > > > > listed on the right > > > > > > > > side, alphabetically > under > > Labels and also > > > > > under > > > > > > > Archives by Year, Month) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -----Original > Message----- > > > > > > > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On > > > > > > Behalf Of Amber Berglund > > > > > > > > Sent: Tuesday, November > 10, > > 2009 4:22 PM > > > > > > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > > Subject: Re: > [AquaticLife] > > Re: > > > > > wisteria/lighting > > > > > > > previous > > > > > > > > question/response > > > > > > > > revisited > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Another thing to > consider is > > one light > > > > > company's > > > > > > 6500 > > > > > > > kelvin rating > > > > > > > > may not > > > > > > > > be identical to another > light > > bulb from a > > > > > > different > > > > > > > company that's > > > > > > > > rated the > > > > > > > > same. The important > thing to > > look at is the > > > > > > color > > > > > > > chart they show on the > > > > > > > > boxes, you want more red > and > > blue light for > > > > > your > > > > > > > plants, green is not > > > > > > > > useful > > > > > > > > or harmful as the > plants > > reflect the light > > > > > back > > > > > > (makes > > > > > > > them appear more > > > > > > > > green but does nothing > else > > for them). The > > > > > > kelvin > > > > > > > rating is based on our > > > > > > > > eyes and how they > perceive > > color, so each > > > > > > company > > > > > > > doesn't have to be > > > > > > > > identical, perhaps some > day > > they will have > > > > > a > > > > > > universal > > > > > > > way to measure > > > > > > > > light > > > > > > > > spectrums on bulbs that > is > > much less > > > > > confusing. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Amber > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Lenny V. aka GoldLenny > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > OK. So you have a > total > > of 80 watts > > > > > right > > > > > > now, > > > > > > > which is just over 1 > > > > > > > > > WPG, which means > you > > only have enough > > > > > > lighting > > > > > > > for low-light, easy to > > > > > > > > > grow plants. See my > blog > > article > > > > > "Planted > > > > > > Tank: > > > > > > > So You Want A Planted > > > > > > > > > Tank" for links to > lists > > of low-light, > > > > > easy > > > > > > to > > > > > > > grow plants that will > > > > > > > > > do OK in your tank. > You > > should replace > > > > > > those > > > > > > > tubes at least yearly... > > > > > > > > > although some say > every > > six months. As > > > > > far > > > > > > as I > > > > > > > know, a 40W bulb is > > > > > > > > > the highest wattage > made > > for this type > > > > > of > > > > > > > bulb/fixture right now but > > > > > > > > > you can increase > your > > lighting > > > > > > > > > (lumens) and K > (Kelvin) > > rating. See > > > > > below. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > NOTE - below links > are > > for > > > > > > example/informational > > > > > > > purposes only, as I > > > > > > > > > know nothing about > the > > sites. God... > > > > > did I > > > > > > just > > > > > > > say that? Do I really > > > > > > > > > have to add > disclaimers > > to my posts > > > > > now? LOL > > > > > > Just > > > > > > > laughing at myself. > > > > > > > > > LOL > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > This may be your > > Sylvania bulb... > > > > > > > > > > > > > http://www.lightbulbemporium.com/proddetail.asp?prod=F40/EX50 > > > > > <http://www.lightbulbemporium.com/proddetail.asp?prod=F40/EX50> > > > > <http://www.lightbulbemporium.com/proddetail.asp?prod=F40/EX50 > > > > > <http://www.lightbulbemporium.com/proddetail.asp?prod=F40/EX50>> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > <http://www.lightbulbemporium.com/proddetail.asp?prod=F40/EX50 > > > > > <http://www.lightbulbemporium.com/proddetail.asp?prod=F40/EX50> > > > > <http://www.lightbulbemporium.com/proddetail.asp?prod=F40/EX50 > > > > > <http://www.lightbulbemporium.com/proddetail.asp?prod=F40/EX50>>> > > > > > > > > > > > > > <http://www.lightbulbemporium.com/proddetail.asp?prod=F40/EX50 > > > > > <http://www.lightbulbemporium.com/proddetail.asp?prod=F40/EX50> > > > > <http://www.lightbulbemporium.com/proddetail.asp?prod=F40/EX50 > > > > > <http://www.lightbulbemporium.com/proddetail.asp?prod=F40/EX50>> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > <http://www.lightbulbemporium.com/proddetail.asp?prod=F40/EX50 > > > > > <http://www.lightbulbemporium.com/proddetail.asp?prod=F40/EX50> > > > > <http://www.lightbulbemporium.com/proddetail.asp?prod=F40/EX50 > > > > > <http://www.lightbulbemporium.com/proddetail.asp?prod=F40/EX50>>>> > > > > > > > and if > > > > > > > > > it is, then it's > the > > same ratings as > > > > > the > > > > > > specs in > > > > > > > the T-10 bulb that I > > > > > > > > > copy/pasted below, > which > > is a pretty > > > > > good > > > > > > bulb > > > > > > > with higher lumens and > > > > > > > > > the higher K > rating, > > although not a > > > > > 6500K > > > > > > rated > > > > > > > bulb. At the bottom of > > > > > > > > > this page, there > was a > > link to this > > > > > bulb... > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > http://www.lightbulbemporium.com/maxlite_51204_ml_f40t10_850_rscg.as > > > > > <http://www.lightbulbemporium.com/maxlite_51204_ml_f40t10_850_rscg.as> > > > > > > > <http://www.lightbulbemporium.com/maxlite_51204_ml_f40t10_850_rscg.as > > > > > <http://www.lightbulbemporium.com/maxlite_51204_ml_f40t10_850_rscg.as>> > > > > > > > > p > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > <http://www.lightbulbemporium.com/maxlite_51204_ml_f40t10_850_rscg.a > > > > > <http://www.lightbulbemporium.com/maxlite_51204_ml_f40t10_850_rscg.a> > > > > <http://www.lightbulbemporium.com/maxlite_51204_ml_f40t10_850_rscg.a > > > > > <http://www.lightbulbemporium.com/maxlite_51204_ml_f40t10_850_rscg.a>> > > > > > > > > sp> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > <http://www.lightbulbemporium.com/maxlite_51204_ml_f40t10_850_rscg.a > > > > > <http://www.lightbulbemporium.com/maxlite_51204_ml_f40t10_850_rscg.a> > > > > <http://www.lightbulbemporium.com/maxlite_51204_ml_f40t10_850_rscg.a > > > > > <http://www.lightbulbemporium.com/maxlite_51204_ml_f40t10_850_rscg.a>> > > > > > > > > sp > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > <http://www.lightbulbemporium.com/maxlite_51204_ml_f40t10_850_rscg.a > > > > > <http://www.lightbulbemporium.com/maxlite_51204_ml_f40t10_850_rscg.a> > > > > <http://www.lightbulbemporium.com/maxlite_51204_ml_f40t10_850_rscg.a > > > > > <http://www.lightbulbemporium.com/maxlite_51204_ml_f40t10_850_rscg.a>> > > > > > > > > sp> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > which > > > > > > > > > has an even higher > lumen > > rating of > > > > > 3700, > > > > > > although > > > > > > > not much higher than > > > > > > > > > the 3550 rating > but > > every little bit > > > > > helps > > > > > > > especially since the > > > > > > > > > MaxLite bulb was a > lower > > price than > > > > > the > > > > > > Sylvania > > > > > > > bulb. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > As you will see on > this > > page > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > http://www.lightbulbsdirect.com/Merchant2/merchant.mvc?page=001/CTGY > > > > > <http://www.lightbulbsdirect.com/Merchant2/merchant.mvc?page=001/CTGY> > > > > > > > <http://www.lightbulbsdirect.com/Merchant2/merchant.mvc?page=001/CTGY > > > > > <http://www.lightbulbsdirect.com/Merchant2/merchant.mvc?page=001/CTGY>> > > > > > > > > /F > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > <http://www.lightbulbsdirect.com/Merchant2/merchant.mvc?page=001/CTG > > > > > <http://www.lightbulbsdirect.com/Merchant2/merchant.mvc?page=001/CTG> > > > > <http://www.lightbulbsdirect.com/Merchant2/merchant.mvc?page=001/CTG > > > > > <http://www.lightbulbsdirect.com/Merchant2/merchant.mvc?page=001/CTG>> > > > > > > > > Y/F> > > > > > > > > > S+Fluo > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > <http://www.lightbulbsdirect.com/Merchant2/merchant.mvc?page=001/CTG > > > > > <http://www.lightbulbsdirect.com/Merchant2/merchant.mvc?page=001/CTG> > > > > <http://www.lightbulbsdirect.com/Merchant2/merchant.mvc?page=001/CTG > > > > > <http://www.lightbulbsdirect.com/Merchant2/merchant.mvc?page=001/CTG>> > > > > > > > > Y/ > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > <http://www.lightbulbsdirect.com/Merchant2/merchant.mvc?page=001/CTG > > > > > <http://www.lightbulbsdirect.com/Merchant2/merchant.mvc?page=001/CTG> > > > > <http://www.lightbulbsdirect.com/Merchant2/merchant.mvc?page=001/CTG > > > > > <http://www.lightbulbsdirect.com/Merchant2/merchant.mvc?page=001/CTG>> > > > > > > > > Y/> > > > > > > > > > FS+Fluo> > > > > > > > > > rescent > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > The second bulb > down > > would be similar > > > > > to > > > > > > yours, > > > > > > > except we do not know > > > > > > > > > the lumen or color > > spectrum rating on > > > > > your > > > > > > bulb, > > > > > > > unless that link I > > > > > > > > > gave above is > actually > > your bulb and > > > > > then > > > > > > it > > > > > > > would be the same as this > > > > > > > > > one. The specs on > it > > are: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > T-10 Fluorescent > > > > > > > > > 40 Watts > > > > > > > > > Length: 48" > > > > > > > > > Medium Bi-Pin Base > > > > > > > > > Color: 5000K > > Temperature > > > > > > > > > Initial Lumens: > 3550 > > > > > > > > > CRI: 84 > > > > > > > > > Average Life: > 20,000 > > Hours > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > The Color spectrum > of > > 5000K (Kelvin) is > > > > > OK > > > > > > but > > > > > > > 6500K would be much > > > > > > > > better. > > > > > > > > > The Lumens of 3550 > is > > the actual amount > > > > > of > > > > > > > *light* > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > The next bulb down > from > > that one is a > > > > > T-12, > > > > > > which > > > > > > > will also fit in > > > > > > > > > your fixture but > they > > are bigger > > > > > diameter > > > > > > bulbs > > > > > > > and this one actually > > > > > > > > > puts out less > light > > (lumens). Here are > > > > > the > > > > > > > specs: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > T-12 Fluorescent > > > > > > > > > 40 Watts > > > > > > > > > Length: 48" > > > > > > > > > Base: Medium > Bi-Pin > > Base > > > > > > > > > Initial Lumens: > 2200 > > > > > > > > > Average Life: > 20,000 > > Hours > > > > > > > > > Color Temperature: > > 5000K > > > > > > > > > CRI: 92 > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > It has the same > Color > > spectrum but > > > > > only > > > > > > 2200 > > > > > > > lumens so the above T-10 > > > > > > > > > bulb has around 50% > more > > lumens > > > > > (light) > > > > > > coming > > > > > > > out of it. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Now, if you scroll > down > > to the second > > > > > from > > > > > > the > > > > > > > bottom on the page, > > > > > > > > > you'll see the > Verilux > > Instant-Sun > > > > > T-12 > > > > > > bulb > > > > > > > which has a higher Kelvin > > > > > > > > > rating but it > doesn't > > list the lumens > > > > > so > > > > > > this > > > > > > > needs to be checked out > > > > > > > > > further. While the > > higher K rating is > > > > > good, > > > > > > if it > > > > > > > goes back down to > > > > > > > > > only 2200 lumens, > > instead of the 3550 > > > > > lumens > > > > > > of > > > > > > > the first referenced > > > > > > > > > bulb above, then I > would > > probably go > > > > > with > > > > > > the > > > > > > > 3550 lumens, 5000K bulb > > > > > > > > > over the 6280K bulb > if > > the lumens were > > > > > a > > > > > > LOT > > > > > > > less. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > (START SNIP) > > > > > > > > > Engineered to > reproduce > > all the colors > > > > > and > > > > > > > balance of natural light, > > > > > > > > > VeriluxR full > spectrum > > fluorescent > > > > > tubes > > > > > > feature > > > > > > > Trucolite Phosphor > > > > > > > > > TechnologyT which > > includes the use of > > > > > a > > > > > > stable, > > > > > > > custom blend of earth > > > > > > > > > phosphors that > create > > bright, balanced > > > > > full > > > > > > > spectrum light. > > > > > > > > > T-12 Fluorescent > > > > > > > > > 40 Watts > > > > > > > > > Length: 48" > > > > > > > > > Color Temperature: > > 6280K > > > > > > > > > CRI: 94 > > > > > > > > > Medium Bi-Pin Base > > > > > > > > > (END SNIP) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > So, as you can > see, > > there's a few > > > > > things to > > > > > > look > > > > > > > for when shopping for > > > > > > > > > new replacement > bulbs. > > Look for the > > > > > 5000K > > > > > > to > > > > > > > 6500K bulbs with the > > > > > > > > > higher lumen rating > for > > the dollar and > > > > > you > > > > > > should > > > > > > > be good. Note that a > > > > > > > > > 3550 or 3700 lumen > bulb > > will put out > > > > > nearly > > > > > > twice > > > > > > > as much light as a > > > > > > > > > 2000 lumen bulb so > it > > can be easy to > > > > > > increase > > > > > > > your lighting without > > > > > > > > > increasing the > wattage. > > DO NOT try to > > > > > use HO > > > > > > or > > > > > > > VHO bulbs... which > > > > > > > > > look similar but > have > > much higher > > > > > wattage, > > > > > > well > > > > > > > over the 40W bulbs you > > > > > > > > > now have. These > other HO > > and VHO bulbs > > > > > have > > > > > > > different pin arrangements > > > > > > > > > so they will not > fit in > > your fixture > > > > > anyhow > > > > > > but I > > > > > > > just wanted to save > > > > > > > > > you a trip. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Last but not least, > if > > you're handy, > > > > > you > > > > > > could > > > > > > > even take the bulbs out > > > > > > > > > of your fixtures > and > > line the insides > > > > > of > > > > > > your > > > > > > > fixtures with nice and > > > > > > > > > crisp and flat > aluminum > > foil (shiny > > > > > side > > > > > > exposed) > > > > > > > which will also > > > > > > > > > help. Using double > stick > > tape and then > > > > > > carefully > > > > > > > applying the foil so > > > > > > > > > it does not wrinkle > too > > much will work > > > > > > well... > > > > > > > especially if the > > > > > > > > > inside of your > fixture > > is black. A > > > > > white > > > > > > > reflector is good but a > > > > > > > > > mirrored reflector, > like > > that created > > > > > by > > > > > > the > > > > > > > shiny side of foil, is > > > > > > > > > MUCH better than a > black > > reflector. > > > > > Most > > > > > > black > > > > > > > fixtures do at least > > > > > > > > > have white > reflector > > areas. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > > > > > > > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>> > > > > > > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > > > > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>>> > > > > > > > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>> > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>>>> > > > > > > > > (Links to any articles > > referenced in > > > > > > > > > above reply are > listed > > on the right > > > > > side, > > > > > > > alphabetically under Labels > > > > > > > > > and also under > Archives > > by Year, > > > > > Month) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -----Original > > Message----- > > > > > > > > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > > > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On > > > > > > > Behalf Of erikaandnewton > > > > > > > > > Sent: Tuesday, > November > > 10, 2009 10:17 > > > > > AM > > > > > > > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > > > Subject: > [AquaticLife] > > Re: > > > > > > wisteria/lighting > > > > > > > previous > > > > > > > > > question/response > > revisited > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > << When you > say > > "two strips" do > > > > > you > > > > > > have > > > > > > > two 4' long two-bulb > fixtures > > > > > > > > > already or > something > > else?>> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > i have two 4' > single > > bulb strip > > > > > lights. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> What kind > of > > lighting do you > > > > > > currently > > > > > > > have? Look at the bulbs and > > > > > > > > > >> there > should be > > some kind of > > > > > > writing on > > > > > > > one of the ends. Give us > > > > > > > > > >> that info > if > > you cannot > > > > > decipher > > > > > > it > > > > > > > yourself.<< > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > one bulb is a f40 > t10 > > > > > > > > > the other one is a > > sylvania daylight > > > > > bulb > > > > > > also > > > > > > > f40 > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> It's > probably > > 21" tall, since > > > > > a > > > > > > common > > > > > > > measurement for a 75G is > > > > > > > > > >> > 48"x18"x21" > > Tall.>> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > it is 21 inches > tall > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > erika wilmington de > usa > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ------------------------------------ > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Please, DELETE this line and > > EVERYTHING below it > > > > > when > > > > > > replying, Thank > > > > > > > You. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> > > > > > > > ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , > > > > > .·´¯`·..><((((º> > > > > > > > PLEASE, when you REPLY to a > post, > > DELETE all TEXT > > > > > that > > > > > > is NOT > > > > > > > important to the reply & > if > > CHANGING the > > > > > TOPIC of > > > > > > the original message > > > > > > > MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> > i.e. > > "new subject > > > > > (was > > > > > > re: old subject)" <- > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. > > > > > > > , > > .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. > > > > > > > We Thank You in Advance for > Your > > HELP in this > > > > > matter. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > If you do not want all of > the > > groups emails, > > > > > instead > > > > > > of unsubscribing, > > > > > > > you can change your delivery > > option by clicking > > > > > on > > > > > > "Edit My > > > > > > > Membership" on the home > page. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com > > > > > > <mailto:aquaticlife-digest%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > <mailto:aquaticlife-digest%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > to receive the digest, which > > includes up to 25 > > > > > posts > > > > > > at a time in a > > > > > > > single email > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com > > > > > > <mailto:aquaticlife-nomail%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > <mailto:aquaticlife-nomail%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > for the No E-Mail option > where you > > will still be > > > > > able > > > > > > to read messages > > > > > > > on the group and post > replies. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com > > > > > > <mailto:aquaticlife-normal%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > <mailto:aquaticlife-normal%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > to receive individual > > e-mails.Yahoo! Groups > > > > > Links > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > AquaticLife-fullfeatured@yahoogroups.com > > > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife-fullfeatured%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife-fullfeatured%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ------------------------------------ > > > > > > > > > > > > Please, DELETE this line and > EVERYTHING > > below it when replying, > > > > > > Thank You. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> > > > > > > ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , > > .·´¯`·..><((((º> > > > > > > PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, > > DELETE all TEXT that > > > > > is > > > > > > NOT important to > > > > > > the reply & if CHANGING the > TOPIC > > of the original message MODIFY > > > > > > the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new > > subject (was re: old subject)" > > > > > <- > > > > > > > > > > > > > > <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. > > > > > > , > > .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. > > > > > > We Thank You in Advance for Your > HELP > > in this matter. > > > > > > > > > > > > If you do not want all of the > groups > > emails, instead > > > > > of > > > > > > unsubscribing, you > > > > > > can change your delivery option > by > > clicking on "Edit > > > > > My > > > > > > Membership" on the > > > > > > home page. > > > > > > > > > > > > Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com > > > > > > <mailto:aquaticlife-digest%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > <mailto:aquaticlife-digest%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > to receive the digest, which > > > > > > includes up to 25 posts at a time > in a > > single email > > > > > > > > > > > > Or email aquaticlife-nomai<br/><br/>(Message over 64 KB, truncated)

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 44467	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 11/12/2009
Subject: Re: wisteria/lighting previous question/response revisited

Bulb diameter is easy. Take the bulb and place it over a ruler/tape measurer and look straight down on it. It should be easy to discern between 1/2" (T-4) and 1" (T-8) and the T-5 (5/8") uses a completely different single pin on each end so that would eliminate that bulb. Or better yet.. take your bulb to the WalMart and compare apples to apples and you'll then know exactly what you have and also be able to see what your local WalMart offers as far as better bulbs. You can probably get much more lighting with a new $5.00 to $10.00 bulb. Then Santa can still bring you the bigger tank and accessories and your other tanks will also be far more functional in case you choose to sell them or just have more tanks. As far as selling your unused stuff, CraigsList.org is free and you can renew the ad every week until you find the right buyer who is willing to pay the best price you can get. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of bill 1433 Sent: Thursday, November 12, 2009 2:27 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: wisteria/lighting previous question/response revisited Bulb Diameter Len, and now you see my problem. I haven't found any either. Also reading and studying all that you have sent me so far I come away from all of this with one single thought, is it worth it? With all this being said and it so close to the time for a visit from "Santa", I'm wondering if I should not put all you have taught me to better use by just getting something like a standard 55-gallon tank! These lights do cost a bit but there is not a huge different between size vs. cost from a 29 to a 55. Then to is the issue of what to do with the plastic covers I already have should I go to the all glass covers. Sell them, sure but to whom? Remember, I'm the guy that has a hard time just trying to find a place to buy fish around here, there just aren't that many places or people. No matter what I do, I promise to keep you posted. Thanks for all you've taught and helped me with, Bill --- On Thu, 11/12/09, Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@...> wrote: > From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@...> > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: wisteria/lighting previous question/response revisited > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Date: Thursday, November 12, 2009, 2:42 PM > Once again Bill.... you need to get > away from the "Watts" mindset.  It's > just not applicable with the wide array of bulbs available > nowadays.  That > link goes to a CFL light strip and 65 watts of CFL lighting > is a LOT, LOT, > LOT (3 LOTS) more lighting than 65 watts of an incandescent > bulb and a LOT, > LOT (2 LOTS) more lighting than a 65W normal fluorescent > bulb.  This would > probably increase your lighting by 10X's over what you have > now.  If you > just went with 20W (range) CFL's, you'd get 2-3X's more > light than you > currently have.  > > You still need to do some more research on your current > bulbs to find out > the specs on them.  Without knowing your current > specs, it's difficult to > know how much more lighting you might want/need. > > Since you got your fixture and bulbs from DFS, I just did a > search of '17 > watt fluorescent' and four bulbs came up.. one was a CFL so > that wasn't it > and the other three are below BUT none of them are T-4's... > in fact, so far, > I have not been able to find a T-4, 17W bulb > anywhere.  What are you > measuring to come up with the 1/2" figure?  Bulb > diameter, pin separation or > other??? > > http://www.drsfostersmith.com/product/prod_display.cfm?pcatid=3787 > (24", > T-8, 5500K, nothing for lumens) > > http://www.drsfostersmith.com/product/prod_display.cfm?pcatid=4491 > (24", > T-8, Actinic 420nm, nothing for lumens) > > http://www.drsfostersmith.com/product/prod_display.cfm?pcatid=4489 > (24", > T-8, 6500K, nothing for lumens) > > You need to take your bulb out and go to a local lighting > store (department) > or even the Walmart and see if they can give you more info > on it or at least > you might find identical sized bulbs that do have specs on > them so you can > be more informed about what you have. > > While I was at the DFS site, and since you previously > mentioned that you > have an All-Glass hood that came with the one bulb light > strip, I did a > search on DFS for 'All-Glass light' and found this link for > the only single > bulb light strip that All-Glass has on DFS' site. > > http://www.drsfostersmith.com/product/prod_display.cfm?pcatid=3793 > > It comes in 16" or 20" lengths.  There's a link to > "View compatible Bulbs" > in the Description tab, which brings up a page of bulbs and > ALL of the ones > compatible for the 20" strip are T-8 bulbs.  There are > a couple of dozen > bulbs listed so I didn't go through them and unfortunately, > they do NOT list > the wattage on that list so I wasn't able to find any 17W > bulbs without > checking a bunch of links.  Since it was an All-Glass > fixture, I did click > on the first All-Glass brand bulb which brought up this > page... > > http://www.drsfostersmith.com/product/prod_display.cfm?pcatid=12850 > > And you will see that there is either an 18", 15W bulb or a > 24", 17W bulb, > as well as others... and these are the 8000K bulbs which > were listed in the > description on the website link that you posted earlier > BUT.. these are ALL > T-8 bulbs, not T-4's so we're back to that spec issue > again.  This page does > call them 8000K Daylight, Full Spectrum bulbs so maybe they > are OK but I > wish that the DFS site would list lumens since that is a > critical, > need-to-know piece of information that is missing.  As > seen in my previous > posts, the same sized bulbs can have a lumen output that is > 50% to 100% > higher than a comparable bulb of the same size... and that > makes a HUGE > difference in lighting. > > Once again, take the bulb to your WalMart and compare > apples to apples and > find out exactly what size bulb you have and while there, > look at other > identical sized bulbs and look for the highest lumens in > the 5000K to 6500K > range, buy one and bring it home and see if it's a LOT > brighter than what > you now have.  If so, that might do the trick. > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed > on the right > side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives > by Year, Month) > > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] > On > Behalf Of bill 1433 > Sent: Thursday, November 12, 2009 12:12 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: wisteria/lighting previous > question/response > revisited > > Hi Amber, > > The links Len provided are very close BUT it's the ends of > the tube or pins > that worry me.  They are very close but "how"? > > Meaning this buying the tube, ok by mail?  Now what if > it doesn't work? > Rreturn a $10.00 tube the postage would cost more.  > I'm trying to work > backward now from Len's link, and get a manufacture so I > can buy around > here.  Also I'm getting made enough now to scrape the > whole thing and just > get a new All-Glass cover then maybe one of these: > > > http://www.drsfostersmith.com/product/prod_display.cfm?c=3578+3733+9654+9871 > &pcatid=9871 > > This link is not pointing to the exact Coralife product I > want at Doctors > its # apn-16981, if you have their catalog but I can't make > it come up on > search at their site.  It is a single rated at 65 > watts and is 24". > > Bill > --- On Thu, 11/12/09, Amber Berglund <arberglund@...> > wrote: > > > From: Amber Berglund <arberglund@...> > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: wisteria/lighting > previous > question/response revisited > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > Date: Thursday, November 12, 2009, 12:59 PM > > Bill does have T-4's if I remember > > correctly, maybe one of those 20watt > > bulbs will work for him and provide more lumens than > his > > current bulbs do. > > Did you check those links out Bill? ;) > > > > Amber > > > > Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > > > > > > Just because a fixture currently has a T-8 or > T-10, > > does not mean it > > > cannot > > > use a T-12, and vice versa. They are all medium > bi-pin > > bulbs, meaning they > > > all will fit and work UNLESS the reflector is so > tight > > that a T-12 cannot > > > fit inside the fixture but I haven't seen this as > a > > problem in the past. > > > Usually, going with a T-8 or T-10, instead of a > T-12 > > will give more lumens > > > but in the case of this particular sized bulb, > the > > T-12 may be the better > > > option. Of course, we still need more details on > > Bill's exact bulb. We > > > still do not know anything except that it's 17 > > watts... nothing about > > > lumens, K rating or anything else for comparison > > purposes. As Johnny 5 > > > once > > > said... "Need more input!" (I have no clue why > that > > OLD movie line popped > > > into my head and I can't blame it on drugs since > I > > didn't/don't do them... > > > and as far as I know, beer doesn't cause acid > > flashbacks. LOL > > > http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Short_Circuit > > > <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Short_Circuit>) > > > > > > Now... thinking back a little. Bill may have > T-4's and > > if he does, those > > > use the miniature bi-pin base and the above > larger > > T-#'s with medium > > > bi-pin > > > base would not work. If this is the case, there > are > > other options > > > listed on > > > this page... > > > > http://www.servicelighting.com/T4-Straight-Linear-Fluorescent-Light-Bulbs > > > > > > <http://www.servicelighting.com/T4-Straight-Linear-Fluorescent-Light-Bulbs> > > > including this 20W, 6400K, 1340 Lumens bulb - > > > > http://www.servicelighting.com/Bulbrite-85220-F20T4-64K-F20T4-D-T4-Straight- > > > > > > <http://www.servicelighting.com/Bulbrite-85220-F20T4-64K-F20T4-D-T4-Straight > -> > > > Linear-Fluorescent-Light-Bulb, which sounds like > a > > pretty good bulb > > > from the > > > specs and actually provides more lumens than any > of > > the T-12's previously > > > listed. > > > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > (Links to any articles referenced in above reply > are > > listed on the right > > > side, alphabetically under Labels and also under > > Archives by Year, Month) > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On > > > Behalf Of Amber Berglund > > > Sent: Thursday, November 12, 2009 10:29 AM > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: wisteria/lighting > > previous > > > question/response > > > revisited > > > > > > Bill has smaller bulbs, I think they are not easy > to > > find in a higher > > > wattage output, which is what he was looking for > a few > > months back. > > > > > > Amber > > > > > > Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > > > > > > > > I don't know what you mean by this. Please > > elaborate. What size tube? > > > > I posted about several different bulbs but > all > > were T-12's, which is > > > > one of the most common sizes. > > > > > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>> > > > (Links to any articles referenced in > > > > above reply are listed on the right side, > > alphabetically under Labels > > > > and also under Archives by Year, Month) > > > > > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On > > Behalf Of bill 1433 > > > > Sent: Thursday, November 12, 2009 8:59 AM > > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: > wisteria/lighting > > previous > > > > question/response revisited > > > > > > > > Yes Len, > > > > > > > > But its finding that size tube with more of > > anything that's the problem. > > > > > > > > Bill > > > > > > > > --- On Wed, 11/11/09, Lenny V. aka > GoldLenny > > <GoldLenny@... > > > > > <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com> > > > > <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com>> > wrote: > > > > > > > > > From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@... > > > > > <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com> > > > > <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com>> > > > > > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: > > wisteria/lighting previous > > > > > question/response revisited > > > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > Date: Wednesday, November 11, 2009, > 5:22 PM > > Well, if you only have > > > > > 17W, then you could definitely do > better > > with the 20W, higher lumen, > > > > > better K rating bulbs that I > mentioned. > > Considering the lumen > > > > > ratings of fluorescent bulbs I've > looked at, > > your 17W bulbs might > > > > > only have 500-700 lumens where the BEST > 20W > > bulb (below) has > > > > > 1075 lumens so you > > > > > could possibly increase your lighting > by 50% > > to 100% just by > > > > > changing to that bulb. At least, with > that > > bulb, you'll be in the > > > > > low-light range for plants on the 20G > but > > the 29G will need some work. > > > > > > > > > > Of course, you should find out what > the > > lumens and K ratings are on > > > > > the bulbs you have so you'll know if > you are > > getting a small jump or > > > > > a BIG jump in lighting just by changing > your > > bulbs. Check your local > > > > > WalMart for bulbs. My nearby WalMart > > SuperCenter has a really big > > > > > assortment of fluorescent tubes and > they > > were cheaper than the Home > > > > > Depot. > > > > > > > > > > Something else I'm thinking about for > you is > > going with 18" > > > > > light-sticks on > > > > > each end of your 29G tank or front or > back > > (back would hide it best > > > > > but you decide your best aesthetics) > and > > you'd have to make a DIY > > > > > reflector for it (white poster board > and > > scotch tape would work) and > > > > > that would get more lighting down to > the > > bottom level plants in the > > > > > 29G. > > > > > > > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > > > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>> > > > (Links to any articles > > > > > referenced in above reply are listed on > the > > right side, > > > > > alphabetically under Labels and also > under > > Archives by Year, Month) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] > > > > > On > > > > > Behalf Of bill 1433 > > > > > Sent: Wednesday, November 11, 2009 3:42 > PM > > > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: > > wisteria/lighting previous > > > > > question/response revisited > > > > > > > > > > It is what it is type of thing Len. > Site > > says one thing but stamped > > > > > or printed right on the tube is at 17 > > watts. > > > > > > > > > > Bill > > > > > > > > > > --- On Wed, 11/11/09, Lenny V. aka > GoldLenny > > <GoldLenny@... > > > > > <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com> > > > > <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com>> > > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny > <GoldLenny@... > > > > > <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com> > > > > <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com>> > > > > > > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: > > wisteria/lighting > > > > > previous > > > > > > question/response revisited > > > > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > Date: Wednesday, November 11, > 2009, > > 2:16 PM The > > > > > problem might be this > > > > > > statement in the description... > > > > > > > > > > > > "... Hoods include 8000ºK > bulb... > > ...20W, 24"..." > > > > > > > > > > > > That's getting into the higher > > green/blue Kelvin > > > > > range... > > > > > > closer to the > > > > > > 10,000K actinic type bulbs... than > the > > 5000K to 6500K > > > > > "Daylight" bulbs > > > > > > that provide full spectrum > lighting. > > It's also only > > > > > a 20W bulb > > > > > > (according to the DFS site, > although > > you stated it was > > > > > only 17W so > > > > > > double check this) so it's only > 1WPG on > > the 20G and > > > > > only 0.69WPG on > > > > > > the 29G. Of course, if the bulb > puts > > out a LOT more > > > > > lumens (you would > > > > > > have to do more checking up on the > bulb > > to find this), > > > > > that would help > > > > > > a little but not much. I think you > need > > at least > > > > > 1WPG to have success > > > > > > with low-light plants, although > > floating plants like > > > > > Anacharis, > > > > > > Hornwort, Duckweed, etc., would be > up > > close to the > > > > > light and benefit > > > > > > from CO2 from the air and would do > OK > > with your > > > > > lighting... but then > > > > > > they would also block out the > lighting > > to the rest of > > > > > the tank. > > > > > > > > > > > > I don't see a lot of options, as > far as > > T-8 bulbs are > > > > > concerned for > > > > > > this size fixture but I see a few > > different T-12's... > > > > > such as... > > > > > > > > > > > > (My rating is: GOOD - but see > BETTER > > and BEST options > > > > > below... at > > > > > > least as far as the bulbs on this > site > > are concerned) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > http://www.servicelighting.com/Sylvania-22119-F20T12-DSGN50-T12-Straig > > > > > <http://www.servicelighting.com/Sylvania-22119-F20T12-DSGN50-T12-Straig> > > > > > > > <http://www.servicelighting.com/Sylvania-22119-F20T12-DSGN50-T12-Strai > > > > > <http://www.servicelighting.com/Sylvania-22119-F20T12-DSGN50-T12-Strai> > > > > g> > > > > > > ht-Lin > > > > > > ear-Fluorescent-Light-Bulb > > > > > > > > > > > > Light Output: 880 lumens > > > > > > Refers to the literal measure of > the > > light-output of a > > > > > particular > > > > > > light bulb, measured in the number > of > > lumens. > > > > > > > > > > > > Energy Used: 20 watts > > > > > > "Watts" is the term applied to > the > > amount of energy > > > > > required and used > > > > > > by a particular light bulb. It is > an > > international > > > > > system unit of > > > > > > power equal to one joule per > second. > > Contrary to > > > > > popular belief, the > > > > > > wattage of a bulb does not > directly > > measure the > > > > > brightness; the > > > > > > "lumens" of a light is what > defines the > > actual light > > > > > output. > > > > > > > > > > > > Average Lifetime: 9,000 hours > > > > > > This refers to an average > lifetime > > rating based on > > > > > large quantities in > > > > > > test groups. This testing takes > into > > account usage of > > > > > 3 hours per > > > > > > start for fluorescent lamps and > 10 > > hours per start for > > > > > HID lamps. > > > > > > > > > > > > Bulb Type: T12 > > > > > > The "Bulb Type" is typically a > > combination of the > > > > > style of bulb as > > > > > > well as the width of the bulb. > Usually, > > the first > > > > > couple letters will > > > > > > indicate the type; "G" would > indicate > > "Globe", "PAR" > > > > > would indicate > > > > > > "Parabolic Reflector"... The > numbers > > indicate the > > > > > diameter of the > > > > > > light bulb in eighths of an inch; > a > > "G40" would be a > > > > > "Globe" style > > > > > > that is "5 inches" in diameter. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Base Type: Medium Bi-Pin > > > > > > The "Base" of a light bulb is the > part > > that either > > > > > screws or snaps > > > > > > into a receptacle. Base Type > > terminology may indicate > > > > > common > > > > > > descriptive words like "Medium" > or > > "Candelabra", or > > > > > may even contain > > > > > > numeric codes that signify size > and > > variety, like > > > > > "E26" or "2GX13". > > > > > > > > > > > > Color Temperature: 5,000K > > > > > > Correlated Color Temperature (CCT) > is a > > specification > > > > > of the color > > > > > > appearance of a lamp, relating > its > > color to that of a > > > > > reference source > > > > > > heated to a particular > temperature, > > measured in > > > > > degrees Kelvin (K). It > > > > > > generally measures the "warmth" > or > > "coolness" of light > > > > > source > > > > > > appearance. > > > > > > > > > > > > CRI: 90 > > > > > > CRI refers to the "Color > Rendering > > Index" of a light > > > > > bulb. > > > > > > CRI measures a > > > > > > light source and grades its > ability to > > render the > > > > > color of objects > > > > > > "correctly," as compared with a > > reference source with > > > > > comparable color > > > > > > temperature. 100 is perfect > rendering. > > > > > > > > > > > > Length: 24 inches > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > (BETTER - slightly higher lumens > and > > higher 6500K > > > > > rating) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > http://www.servicelighting.com/Westinghouse-36516-F20T12-FS-T12-Straig > > > > > <http://www.servicelighting.com/Westinghouse-36516-F20T12-FS-T12-Straig> > > > > > > > <http://www.servicelighting.com/Westinghouse-36516-F20T12-FS-T12-Strai > > > > > <http://www.servicelighting.com/Westinghouse-36516-F20T12-FS-T12-Strai> > > > > g> > > > > > > ht-Lin > > > > > > ear-Fluorescent-Light-Bulb > > > > > > > > > > > > Light Output: 900 lumens > > > > > > Energy Used: 20 watts > > > > > > Average Lifetime: 10,000 hours > > > > > > Bulb Type: T12 > > > > > > Base Type: Medium Bi-Pin > > > > > > Color Temperature: 6,500K > > > > > > CRI: 90 > > > > > > Length: 24 inches > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > (BEST, of these three - around > 20% > > higher lumens and > > > > > good 6,500K > > > > > > rating, although it does have a > lower > > CRI rating.. but > > > > > still > > > > > > passing) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > http://www.servicelighting.com/Sylvania-22083-F20T12-D-T12-Straight-Li > > > > > <http://www.servicelighting.com/Sylvania-22083-F20T12-D-T12-Straight-Li> > > > > > > > <http://www.servicelighting.com/Sylvania-22083-F20T12-D-T12-Straight-L > > > > > <http://www.servicelighting.com/Sylvania-22083-F20T12-D-T12-Straight-L> > > > > i> > > > > > > near-F > > > > > > luorescent-Light-Bulb > > > > > > > > > > > > Light Output: 1,075 lumens > > > > > > Energy Used: 20 watts > > > > > > Average Lifetime: 9,000 hours > > > > > > Bulb Type: T12 > > > > > > Base Type: Medium Bi-Pin > > > > > > Color Temperature: 6,500K > > > > > > CRI: 76 > > > > > > Length: 24 inches > > > > > > > > > > > > Compare the above three to what is > sold > > as a > > > > > plant/aquarium light by > > > > > > the same company, which has a > lower > > lumens, MUCH lower > > > > > CRI rating and > > > > > > does not list the K rating other > than > > to say "Plant" > > > > > which is a > > > > > > subjective rating established by > the > > manufacturer. > > > > > > > > > > > > (WORST) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > http://www.servicelighting.com/Westinghouse-36411-F20T12-PL-T12-Straig > > > > > <http://www.servicelighting.com/Westinghouse-36411-F20T12-PL-T12-Straig> > > > > > > > <http://www.servicelighting.com/Westinghouse-36411-F20T12-PL-T12-Strai > > > > > <http://www.servicelighting.com/Westinghouse-36411-F20T12-PL-T12-Strai> > > > > g> > > > > > > ht-Lin > > > > > > ear-Fluorescent-Light-Bulb > > > > > > > > > > > > Light Output: 700 lumens (over 30% > less > > lighting > > > > > than the 1,075 > > > > > > lumens bulb > > > > > > above) > > > > > > Energy Used: 20 watts > > > > > > Average Lifetime: 10,000 hours > > > > > > Bulb Type: T12 > > > > > > Base Type: Medium Bi-Pin > > > > > > Color: Plant > > > > > > CRI: 61 > > > > > > Length: 24 inches > > > > > > > > > > > > If any of the above have much > better > > lumens than your > > > > > current > > > > > > lighting... > > > > > > and they all have better K > ratings, > > then any of them > > > > > would be better > > > > > > for you... but you would still be > stuck > > with only 20 > > > > > watts but it's > > > > > > the LUMENS and K rating that count > more > > than watts. > > > > > You need to find > > > > > > out the lumens on your bulb. Try > to > > find it on the > > > > > DFS site and let > > > > > > us know. > > > > > > > > > > > > You should look at the > AHSupply.com > > place for a > > > > > retrofit kit so you > > > > > > can use CFL's in your current > hood. > > That would > > > > > probably be your least > > > > > > expensive option. I know you don't > like > > electricity > > > > > but I'm sure you > > > > > > know someone that could do this > for > > you... on the > > > > > cheap... or over a > > > > > > 6-pack. > > > > > > > > > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > > > > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>> > > > (Links to > > > > > any articles > > > > > > referenced in above reply are > listed on > > the right > > > > > side, alphabetically > > > > > > under Labels and also under > Archives by > > Year, Month) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > > > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] > > > > > > On > > > > > > Behalf Of bill 1433 > > > > > > Sent: Wednesday, November 11, 2009 > 9:33 > > AM > > > > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: > > wisteria/lighting > > > > > previous > > > > > > question/response > > > > > > revisited > > > > > > > > > > > > Hi \\Steve// > > > > > > > > > > > > At this point, and also to refresh > your > > mind, and > > > > > anyone > > > > > > else on the group > > > > > > that may have interest. This all > got > > started with > > > > > my > > > > > > search for a tube that > > > > > > would allow me more light output > from > > an All Glass > > > > > Plastic > > > > > > hood and light. > > > > > > This unit comes with a "color type > tube > > at 17 watts > > > > > that is > > > > > > only 24 inches > > > > > > long. This is for a 20/29-gallon > tank. > > I was stupid enough to buy > > > > > > two of them, one for each tank. > For > > further inspection > > > > > here > > > > > > is the light: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > http://www.drsfostersmith.com/product/prod_display.cfm?pcatid=13447 > > > > > <http://www.drsfostersmith.com/product/prod_display.cfm?pcatid=13447> > > > > <http://www.drsfostersmith.com/product/prod_display.cfm?pcatid=13447 > > > > > <http://www.drsfostersmith.com/product/prod_display.cfm?pcatid=13447>> > > > > > > > > > > > > For those that would like to > aggravate > > themselves > > > > > further, > > > > > > I can also state > > > > > > that these hoods are very > conducive to > > growing Black Algae! > > > > > > > > > > > > Summoning up, I should have only > > purchased an > > > > > All-Glass > > > > > > cover and then > > > > > > probably a double tube light of > > sufficient wattage to > > > > > bring > > > > > > me up to the > > > > > > recommended 2 or 3 watts per > gallon. > > > > > > > > > > > > Ya live and learn, > > > > > > > > > > > > Bill > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > --- On Tue, 11/10/09, Steve Szabo > > <steve@... > > > > > <mailto:steve%40familyszabo.com> > > > > <mailto:steve%40familyszabo.com>> > > > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > From: Steve Szabo <steve@... > > > > > <mailto:steve%40familyszabo.com> > > > > <mailto:steve%40familyszabo.com>> > > > > > > > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] > Re: > > wisteria/lighting > > > > > > previous > > > > > > > question/response revisited > > > > > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > Date: Tuesday, November 10, > 2009, > > 11:50 PM Bill, > > > > > you > > > > > > got it right! The > > > > > > > T numbers represent the > diameter > > of the bulb in > > > > > 1/8" > > > > > > increments. A T4 > > > > > > > is a bulb 1/2" in diameter, > T5 is > > 5/8", t8 is > > > > > 1" and > > > > > > a t12 is 1 1/2". > > > > > > > As I recall, the F is the > wattage > > of the bulb. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Lumens, not usually stated on > the > > bulb is the > > > > > actual > > > > > > amount of light > > > > > > > coming from the bulb. It > really > > does not have > > > > > anything > > > > > > to do with > > > > > > > watts, though more watts will > give > > you more > > > > > lumens, > > > > > > but, also the > > > > > > > phosphors used in the bulb > affect > > the amount of > > > > > lumen > > > > > > output. Lumens > > > > > > > and lux are often used > > interchangeably, but they > > > > > are > > > > > > really different > > > > > > > measurements. Lux is the > measure > > of illumination > > > > > over > > > > > > a given area. It > > > > > > > may actually be more > important to > > aquarists > > > > > raising > > > > > > plants than the > > > > > > > lumen output. Lux is what is > > measured by a light > > > > > > meter, for anyone who > > > > > > > happens to know what they > are--not > > often seen > > > > > with > > > > > > today's cameras and > > > > > > > photographers. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Color temperature is > important. > > Average daylight > > > > > > (except may in > > > > > > > Amber's area where they have > 6 > > months of > > > > > darkness) has > > > > > > a color > > > > > > > temperature of 5500-6000. > > > > > > > An overcast day can have a > color > > temperature of > > > > > 6500. > > > > > > As mentioned > > > > > > > earlier, plants need light in > two > > color > > > > > spectrums, > > > > > > and, actually they > > > > > > > are rather narrow spans of > > wavelengths they > > > > > benefit > > > > > > from. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I thought I had a bookmark > > explaining this, but > > > > > I > > > > > > can't find it > > > > > > > quickly (over 400K of > bookmarks, > > and things have > > > > > a > > > > > > tendency to get > > > > > > > lost), however, some > judicial > > Googling will gain > > > > > you > > > > > > the information. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > \\Steve// > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > > > > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] > > > > > > > On > > > > > > > Behalf Of bill 1433 > > > > > > > Sent: Tuesday, November 10, > 2009 > > 10:20 PM > > > > > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] > Re: > > wisteria/lighting > > > > > > previous > > > > > > > question/response revisited > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Yes, Amber > > > > > > > > > > > > > > It was I, looking for the > original > > information > > > > > and > > > > > > also looked back on > > > > > > > \\Steve//'s post at group to > try > > and find. Ray > > > > > had > > > > > > mentioned all this > > > > > > > the other day saying that he > > thought the posting > > > > > came > > > > > > from \\Steve//. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I was not successful in my > search. > > Also, for me > > > > > the > > > > > > most important > > > > > > > part was a link to a chart > which > > showed you > > > > > exactly, > > > > > > or explained > > > > > > > exactly the "T" > > > > > > > factor stands for. For > instance, > > T-4 would be a > > > > > tube > > > > > > that is a half > > > > > > > inch wide, or close to > > it-----------I think. > > > > > All > > > > > > this is my own > > > > > > > fault. In my interest to > acquire > > and learn > > > > > about > > > > > > lighting,I went > > > > > > > through and studied the > applied > > links but being > > > > > > ol'bill, I never > > > > > > > bookmarked them. > > > > > > > Then to further > > > > > > > compound the problem, I > deleted > > the original > > > > > message > > > > > > that it came > > > > > > > from. In hind-sight you > could > > probably chalk > > > > > this > > > > > > all up to felonious > > > > > > > stupidity on my part. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Bill---where its always a > good day > > if I learn > > > > > > something new! > > > > > > > > > > > > > > --- On Tue, 11/10/09, Amber > > Berglund <arberglund@... > > > > > <mailto:arberglund%40gmail.com> > > > > <mailto:arberglund%40gmail.com>> > > > > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > From: Amber Berglund <arberglund@... > > > > > <mailto:arberglund%40gmail.com> > > > > <mailto:arberglund%40gmail.com>> > > > > > > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] > Re: > > wisteria/lighting > > > > > > previous > > > > > > > question/response revisited > > > > > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > Date: Tuesday, November 10, > 2009, > > 9:30 PM > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I believe it was Steve who > posted > > a link about > > > > > lumens > > > > > > months back when > > > > > > > (I think it was maybe Bill > asking) > > about lighting > > > > > for > > > > > > planted > > > > > > > aquariums. > > > > > > > Plants require 2 different > > spectrums of light to > > > > > > properly produce > > > > > > > either leaves or flowers (red > is > > more for flower > > > > > > production and blue > > > > > > > is more for growth, but for > the > > best growing you > > > > > want > > > > > > a mixture of > > > > > > > BOTH colors). > > > > > > > So in reality you would want > a > > light that appears > > > > > more > > > > > > brown/reddish > > > > > > > in coloring and a blue/white > > coloring as well, > > > > > but > > > > > > they now have bulbs > > > > > > > that have BOTH spectrums > built in > > (I'm sure they > > > > > don't > > > > > > work as well as > > > > > > > it would to have 2 different > bulbs > > one mostly red > > > > > and > > > > > > the other mostly > > > > > > > blue on the color spectrum). > > > > > > > Let me see if I still have > the > > link bookmarked. > > > > > > > What I was trying to say is > that > > Kelvin does not > > > > > tell > > > > > > you what color > > > > > > > spectrum the light REALLY is, > it's > > actually > > > > > measuring > > > > > > it's light > > > > > > > output color according to how > the > > human eyes > > > > > perceive > > > > > > it. So 6500 > > > > > > > kelvin in general is what > most > > plants will > > > > > prefer > > > > > > because that is a > > > > > > > mixture of both red and blue > > spectrums (In MOST > > > > > bulbs) > > > > > > unfortunately > > > > > > > not all light bulb > manufactures > > have to use the > > > > > exact > > > > > > same chart for > > > > > > > their colors, so they will > have > > different colors > > > > > than > > > > > > another bulb > > > > > > > that says it's 6500 Kelvin. > what > > you really need > > > > > to > > > > > > read is the color > > > > > > > chart on the box, not what > lumens > > it says it is. > > > > > > > (still searching for link, > LOL). > > > > > > > > > > > > > > This isn't the right link but > it > > discusses the > > > > > > kelvin/lumen problems a > > > > > > > little bit, still looking for > the > > link that > > > > > showed the > > > > > > charts and what > > > > > > > to look for in the color > charts. > > > > > > > http://www.americanaquariumproducts.com/Aquarium_Lighting.html > > > > > <http://www.americanaquariumproducts.com/Aquarium_Lighting.html> > > > > <http://www.americanaquariumproducts.com/Aquarium_Lighting.html > > > > > <http://www.americanaquariumproducts.com/Aquarium_Lighting.html>> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Will post again when I find > the > > other link with > > > > > chart > > > > > > examples. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Amber > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Lenny V. aka GoldLenny > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I think it would be > false > > advertising or > > > > > > possibly > > > > > > > mis-advertising (if they > > > > > > > > do not know any better) > if a > > company lists > > > > > their > > > > > > bulbs > > > > > > > as 6500K and they > > > > > > > > aren't. The Kelvin > scale, > > just like Watts > > > > > and > > > > > > Lumens, > > > > > > > are ALL > > > > > > > > universal and > > > > > > > > scientifically > measurable > > scales BUT, as I > > > > > > showed > > > > > > > below, not all 40 watt > > > > > > > > bulbs put out the same > amount > > of light > > > > > (lumens) > > > > > > or in > > > > > > > the same color > > > > > > > > spectrum (Kelvin > rating). All > > 40 watt > > > > > bulbs, > > > > > > whether > > > > > > > incandescent, > > > > > > > > fluorescent, CFL, LED, > > Halogen, etc.... ALL > > > > > use > > > > > > > only/around 40 watts of > > > > > > > > electricity but their > light > > output can vary > > > > > > > dramatically. This is why > > > > > > > > fluorescent bulbs are so > much > > more > > > > > efficient > > > > > > than > > > > > > > incandescent bulbs and > > > > > > > > CFL's are even more > > efficient... as a 40W > > > > > > fluorescent > > > > > > > bulb puts out a LOT > > > > > > > > more light (lumens) than > a 40 > > watt > > > > > incandescent > > > > > > bulb > > > > > > > and a 40W CFL > > > > > > > > puts out > > > > > > > > more light (lumens) than > a > > 40W fluorescent > > > > > bulb. > > > > > > This > > > > > > > is why the OLD > > > > > > > > "Watts > > > > > > > > Per Gallon" rule simply > does > > not work any > > > > > more. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > BUT.. if three > different > > companies are > > > > > selling > > > > > > > standard T-10 fluorescent > > > > > > > > bulbs with the same > exact > > rating of 40W, > > > > > 3550 > > > > > > lumens > > > > > > > and 6500K > > > > > > > > rating... all > > > > > > > > three of those bulbs > should > > be VERY SIMILAR > > > > > if > > > > > > not > > > > > > > identical in the > > > > > > > > way they > > > > > > > > appear to our eyes > (subject > > to our own > > > > > degree of > > > > > > color > > > > > > > blindness, of > > > > > > > > course!) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > In the past, things > like > > "soft white", > > > > > "warm > > > > > > white", > > > > > > > "daylight", "plant > > > > > > > > grow", etc., type terms > were > > used and are > > > > > still > > > > > > used > > > > > > > but those are just > > > > > > > > simple words (not > subject to > > a scientific > > > > > scale) > > > > > > to > > > > > > > describe the Kelvin > > > > > > > > rating ranges but lumens > are > > just as > > > > > important > > > > > > since a > > > > > > > bulb could have a > > > > > > > > 6500K rating with only > 2200 > > lumens where > > > > > another > > > > > > bulb > > > > > > > could have a 6500K > > > > > > > > rating and 3550 or 3700 > > lumens and that > > > > > bulb > > > > > > would put > > > > > > > out over 50% more > > > > > > > > light (lumens) in the > same > > color spectrum > > > > > > (Kelvin > > > > > > > rating) so it would be a > > > > > > > > much more cost effective > bulb > > if it cost > > > > > the > > > > > > same > > > > > > > amount or only a little > > > > > > > > more. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I'm slightly confused > about > > the "red and > > > > > blue > > > > > > light > > > > > > > for your plants" as > > > > > > > > those two colors are on > > opposite ends of > > > > > the > > > > > > Kelvin > > > > > > > Scale with reds and > > > > > > > > ambers in the lower > numbers > > and greens and > > > > > blues > > > > > > in > > > > > > > the higher numbers. I > > > > > > > > think this is why you > would > > want a > > > > > mid-range > > > > > > (5000K to > > > > > > > 6500K) bulb as > > > > > > > > those > > > > > > > > are generally > considered > > "full spectrum" or > > > > > > "daylight" > > > > > > > bulbs. Here's a > > > > > > > > color picture of the > Kelvin > > Scale, > > > > > > > > http://www.bltdirect.com/images/colour-temperature.jpg > > > > > <http://www.bltdirect.com/images/colour-temperature.jpg> > > > > <http://www.bltdirect.com/images/colour-temperature.jpg > > > > > <http://www.bltdirect.com/images/colour-temperature.jpg>> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > <http://www.bltdirect.com/images/colour-temperature.jpg > > > > > <http://www.bltdirect.com/images/colour-temperature.jpg> > > > > <http://www.bltdirect.com/images/colour-temperature.jpg > > > > > <http://www.bltdirect.com/images/colour-temperature.jpg>>> > > > > > > > and you can > > > > > > > > visually > > > > > > > > see that the 5000K to > 6500K > > range is all > > > > > about > > > > > > the > > > > > > > same "color". I think > > > > > > > > this is also why > Actinic > > bulbs are usually > > > > > higher > > > > > > and > > > > > > > closer to the 10000K > > > > > > > > range and up... > apparently, > > the Kelvin > > > > > lighting > > > > > > scale > > > > > > > can go up to 20,000K > > > > > > > > (according to this > article > > about Reef Tanks > > > > > > > > > > > > > http://nh.craigslist.org/for/1423072406.html > > > <http://nh.craigslist.org/for/1423072406.html> > > > > <http://nh.craigslist.org/for/1423072406.html > > > <http://nh.craigslist.org/for/1423072406.html>> > > > > > > > > <http://nh.craigslist.org/for/1423072406.html > > > <http://nh.craigslist.org/for/1423072406.html> > > > > <http://nh.craigslist.org/for/1423072406.html > > > <http://nh.craigslist.org/for/1423072406.html>>> > > on, > > > > > > of > > > > > > > all places, > > > > > > > > Craigslist). > > > > > > > > Here is the page that > that > > the above photo > > > > > link > > > > > > came > > > > > > > from and it has a > > > > > > > > chart > > > > > > > > that also explains > things a > > little more also > > > > > and > > > > > > talks > > > > > > > about the CRI, yet > > > > > > > > another lighting term > (Color > > Rendition > > > > > Index). > > > > > > > > http://www.bltdirect.com/lampColourTemperatures.php > > > <http://www.bltdirect.com/lampColourTemperatures.php> > > > > <http://www.bltdirect.com/lampColourTemperatures.php > > > <http://www.bltdirect.com/lampColourTemperatures.php>> > > > > > > > > <http://www.bltdirect.com/lampColourTemperatures.php > > > <http://www.bltdirect.com/lampColourTemperatures.php> > > > > <http://www.bltdirect.com/lampColourTemperatures.php > > > <http://www.bltdirect.com/lampColourTemperatures.php>>> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > > > > > > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>> > > > > > > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>>> > (Links > > > > > > to any articles referenced in > > > > > > > > above reply are > > > > > > > listed on the right > > > > > > > > side, alphabetically > under > > Labels and also > > > > > under > > > > > > > Archives by Year, Month) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -----Original > Message----- > > > > > > > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On > > > > > > Behalf Of Amber Berglund > > > > > > > > Sent: Tuesday, November > 10, > > 2009 4:22 PM > > > > > > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > > Subject: Re: > [AquaticLife] > > Re: > > > > > wisteria/lighting > > > > > > > previous > > > > > > > > question/response > > > > > > > > revisited > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Another thing to > consider is > > one light > > > > > company's > > > > > > 6500 > > > > > > > kelvin rating > > > > > > > > may not > > > > > > > > be identical to another > light > > bulb from a > > > > > > different > > > > > > > company that's > > > > > > > > rated the > > > > > > > > same. The important > thing to > > look at is the > > > > > > color > > > > > > > chart they show on the > > > > > > > > boxes, you want more red > and > > blue light for > > > > > your > > > > > > > plants, green is not > > > > > > > > useful > > > > > > > > or harmful as the > plants > > reflect the light > > > > > back > > > > > > (makes > > > > > > > them appear more > > > > > > > > green but does nothing > else > > for them). The > > > > > > kelvin > > > > > > > rating is based on our > > > > > > > > eyes and how they > perceive > > color, so each > > > > > > company > > > > > > > doesn't have to be > > > > > > > > identical, perhaps some > day > > they will have > > > > > a > > > > > > universal > > > > > > > way to measure > > > > > > > > light > > > > > > > > spectrums on bulbs that > is > > much less > > > > > confusing. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Amber > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Lenny V. aka GoldLenny > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > OK. So you have a > total > > of 80 watts > > > > > right > > > > > > now, > > > > > > > which is just over 1 > > > > > > > > > WPG, which means > you > > only have enough > > > > > > lighting > > > > > > > for low-light, easy to > > > > > > > > > grow plants. See my > blog > > article > > > > > "Planted > > > > > > Tank: > > > > > > > So You Want A Planted > > > > > > > > > Tank" for links to > lists > > of low-light, > > > > > easy > > > > > > to > > > > > > > grow plants that will > > > > > > > > > do OK in your tank. > You > > should replace > > > > > > those > > > > > > > tubes at least yearly... > > > > > > > > > although some say > every > > six months. As > > > > > far > > > > > > as I > > > > > > > know, a 40W bulb is > > > > > > > > > the highest wattage > made > > for this type > > > > > of > > > > > > > bulb/fixture right now but > > > > > > > > > you can increase > your > > lighting > > > > > > > > > (lumens) and K > (Kelvin) > > rating. See > > > > > below. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > NOTE - below links > are > > for > > > > > > example/informational > > > > > > > purposes only, as I > > > > > > > > > know nothing about > the > > sites. God... > > > > > did I > > > > > > just > > > > > > > say that? Do I really > > > > > > > > > have to add > disclaimers > > to my posts > > > > > now? LOL > > > > > > Just > > > > > > > laughing at myself. > > > > > > > > > LOL > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > This may be your > > Sylvania bulb... > > > > > > > > > > > > > http://www.lightbulbemporium.com/proddetail.asp?prod=F40/EX50 > > > > > <http://www.lightbulbemporium.com/proddetail.asp?prod=F40/EX50> > > > > <http://www.lightbulbemporium.com/proddetail.asp?prod=F40/EX50 > > > > > <http://www.lightbulbemporium.com/proddetail.asp?prod=F40/EX50>> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > <http://www.lightbulbemporium.com/proddetail.asp?prod=F40/EX50 > > > > > <http://www.lightbulbemporium.com/proddetail.asp?prod=F40/EX50> > > > > <http://www.lightbulbemporium.com/proddetail.asp?prod=F40/EX50 > > > > > <http://www.lightbulbemporium.com/proddetail.asp?prod=F40/EX50>>> > > > > > > > > > > > > > <http://www.lightbulbemporium.com/proddetail.asp?prod=F40/EX50 > > > > > <http://www.lightbulbemporium.com/proddetail.asp?prod=F40/EX50> > > > > <http://www.lightbulbemporium.com/proddetail.asp?prod=F40/EX50 > > > > > <http://www.lightbulbemporium.com/proddetail.asp?prod=F40/EX50>> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > <http://www.lightbulbemporium.com/proddetail.asp?prod=F40/EX50 > > > > > <http://www.lightbulbemporium.com/proddetail.asp?prod=F40/EX50> > > > > <http://www.lightbulbemporium.com/proddetail.asp?prod=F40/EX50 > > > > > <http://www.lightbulbemporium.com/proddetail.asp?prod=F40/EX50>>>> > > > > > > > and if > > > > > > > > > it is, then it's > the > > same ratings as > > > > > the > > > > > > specs in > > > > > > > the T-10 bulb that I > > > > > > > > > copy/pasted below, > which > > is a pretty > > > > > good > > > > > > bulb > > > > > > > with higher lumens and > > > > > > > > > the higher K > rating, > > although not a > > > > > 6500K > > > > > > rated > > > > > > > bulb. At the bottom of > > > > > > > > > this page, there > was a > > link to this > > > > > bulb... > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > http://www.lightbulbemporium.com/maxlite_51204_ml_f40t10_850_rscg.as > > > > > <http://www.lightbulbemporium.com/maxlite_51204_ml_f40t10_850_rscg.as> > > > > > > > <http://www.lightbulbemporium.com/maxlite_51204_ml_f40t10_850_rscg.as > > > > > <http://www.lightbulbemporium.com/maxlite_51204_ml_f40t10_850_rscg.as>> > > > > > > > > p > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > <http://www.lightbulbemporium.com/maxlite_51204_ml_f40t10_850_rscg.a > > > > > <http://www.lightbulbemporium.com/maxlite_51204_ml_f40t10_850_rscg.a> > > > > <http://www.lightbulbemporium.com/maxlite_51204_ml_f40t10_850_rscg.a > > > > > <http://www.lightbulbemporium.com/maxlite_51204_ml_f40t10_850_rscg.a>> > > > > > > > > sp> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > <http://www.lightbulbemporium.com/maxlite_51204_ml_f40t10_850_rscg.a > > > > > <http://www.lightbulbemporium.com/maxlite_51204_ml_f40t10_850_rscg.a> > > > > <http://www.lightbulbemporium.com/maxlite_51204_ml_f40t10_850_rscg.a > > > > > <http://www.lightbulbemporium.com/maxlite_51204_ml_f40t10_850_rscg.a>> > > > > > > > > sp > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > <http://www.lightbulbemporium.com/maxlite_51204_ml_f40t10_850_rscg.a > > > > > <http://www.lightbulbemporium.com/maxlite_51204_ml_f40t10_850_rscg.a> > > > > <http://www.lightbulbemporium.com/maxlite_51204_ml_f40t10_850_rscg.a > > > > > <http://www.lightbulbemporium.com/maxlite_51204_ml_f40t10_850_rscg.a>> > > > > > > > > sp> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > which > > > > > > > > > has an even higher > lumen > > rating of > > > > > 3700, > > > > > > although > > > > > > > not much higher than > > > > > > > > > the 3550 rating > but > > every little bit > > > > > helps > > > > > > > especially since the > > > > > > > > > MaxLite bulb was a > lower > > price than > > > > > the > > > > > > Sylvania > > > > > > > bulb. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > As you will see on > this > > page > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > http://www.lightbulbsdirect.com/Merchant2/merchant.mvc?page=001/CTGY > > > > > <http://www.lightbulbsdirect.com/Merchant2/merchant.mvc?page=001/CTGY> > > > > > > > <http://www.lightbulbsdirect.com/Merchant2/merchant.mvc?page=001/CTGY > > > > > <http://www.lightbulbsdirect.com/Merchant2/merchant.mvc?page=001/CTGY>> > > > > > > > > /F > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > <http://www.lightbulbsdirect.com/Merchant2/merchant.mvc?page=001/CTG > > > > > <http://www.lightbulbsdirect.com/Merchant2/merchant.mvc?page=001/CTG> > > > > <http://www.lightbulbsdirect.com/Merchant2/merchant.mvc?page=001/CTG > > > > > <http://www.lightbulbsdirect.com/Merchant2/merchant.mvc?page=001/CTG>> > > > > > > > > Y/F> > > > > > > > > > S+Fluo > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > <http://www.lightbulbsdirect.com/Merchant2/merchant.mvc?page=001/CTG > > > > > <http://www.lightbulbsdirect.com/Merchant2/merchant.mvc?page=001/CTG> > > > > <http://www.lightbulbsdirect.com/Merchant2/merchant.mvc?page=001/CTG > > > > > <http://www.lightbulbsdirect.com/Merchant2/merchant.mvc?page=001/CTG>> > > > > > > > > Y/ > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > <http://www.lightbulbsdirect.com/Merchant2/merchant.mvc?page=001/CTG > > > > > <http://www.lightbulbsdirect.com/Merchant2/merchant.mvc?page=001/CTG> > > > > <http://www.lightbulbsdirect.com/Merchant2/merchant.mvc?page=001/CTG > > > > > <http://www.lightbulbsdirect.com/Merchant2/merchant.mvc?page=001/CTG>> > > > > > > > > Y/> > > > > > > > > > FS+Fluo> > > > > > > > > > rescent > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > The second bulb > down > > would be similar > > > > > to > > > > > > yours, > > > > > > > except we do not know > > > > > > > > > the lumen or color > > spectrum rating on > > > > > your > > > > > > bulb, > > > > > > > unless that link I > > > > > > > > > gave above is > actually > > your bulb and > > > > > then > > > > > > it > > > > > > > would be the same as this > > > > > > > > > one. The specs on > it > > are: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > T-10 Fluorescent > > > > > > > > > 40 Watts > > > > > > > > > Length: 48" > > > > > > > > > Medium Bi-Pin Base > > > > > > > > > Color: 5000K > > Temperature > > > > > > > > > Initial Lumens: > 3550 > > > > > > > > > CRI: 84 > > > > > > > > > Average Life: > 20,000 > > Hours > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > The Color spectrum > of > > 5000K (Kelvin) is > > > > > OK > > > > > > but > > > > > > > 6500K would be much > > > > > > > > better. > > > > > > > > > The Lumens of 3550 > is > > the actual amount > > > > > of > > > > > > > *light* > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > The next bulb down > from > > that one is a > > > > > T-12, > > > > > > which > > > > > > > will also fit in > > > > > > > > > your fixture but > they > > are bigger > > > > > diameter > > > > > > bulbs > > > > > > > and this one actually > > > > > > > > > puts out less > light > > (lumens). Here are > > > > > the > > > > > > > specs: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > T-12 Fluorescent > > > > > > > > > 40 Watts > > > > > > > > > Length: 48" > > > > > > > > > Base: Medium > Bi-Pin > > Base > > > > > > > > > Initial Lumens: > 2200 > > > > > > > > > Average Life: > 20,000 > > Hours > > > > > > > > > Color Temperature: > > 5000K > > > > > > > > > CRI: 92 > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > It has the same > Color > > spectrum but > > > > > only > > > > > > 2200 > > > > > > > lumens so the above T-10 > > > > > > > > > bulb has around 50% > more > > lumens > > > > > (light) > > > > > > coming > > > > > > > out of it. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Now, if you scroll > down > > to the second > > > > > from > > > > > > the > > > > > > > bottom on the page, > > > > > > > > > you'll see the > Verilux > > Instant-Sun > > > > > T-12 > > > > > > bulb > > > > > > > which has a higher Kelvin > > > > > > > > > rating but it > doesn't > > list the lumens > > > > > so > > > > > > this > > > > > > > needs to be checked out > > > > > > > > > further. While the > > higher K rating is > > > > > good, > > > > > > if it > > > > > > > goes back down to > > > > > > > > > only 2200 lumens, > > instead of the 3550 > > > > > lumens > > > > > > of > > > > > > > the first referenced > > > > > > > > > bulb above, then I > would > > probably go > > > > > with > > > > > > the > > > > > > > 3550 lumens, 5000K bulb > > > > > > > > > over the 6280K bulb > if > > the lumens were > > > > > a > > > > > > LOT > > > > > > > less. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > (START SNIP) > > > > > > > > > Engineered to > reproduce > > all the colors > > > > > and > > > > > > > balance of natural light, > > > > > > > > > VeriluxR full > spectrum > > fluorescent > > > > > tubes > > > > > > feature > > > > > > > Trucolite Phosphor > > > > > > > > > TechnologyT which > > includes the use of > > > > > a > > > > > > stable, > > > > > > > custom blend of earth > > > > > > > > > phosphors that > create > > bright, balanced > > > > > full > > > > > > > spectrum light. > > > > > > > > > T-12 Fluorescent > > > > > > > > > 40 Watts > > > > > > > > > Length: 48" > > > > > > > > > Color Temperature: > > 6280K > > > > > > > > > CRI: 94 > > > > > > > > > Medium Bi-Pin Base > > > > > > > > > (END SNIP) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > So, as you can > see, > > there's a few > > > > > things to > > > > > > look > > > > > > > for when shopping for > > > > > > > > > new replacement > bulbs. > > Look for the > > > > > 5000K > > > > > > to > > > > > > > 6500K bulbs with the > > > > > > > > > higher lumen rating > for > > the dollar and > > > > > you > > > > > > should > > > > > > > be good. Note that a > > > > > > > > > 3550 or 3700 lumen > bulb > > will put out > > > > > nearly > > > > > > twice > > > > > > > as much light as a > > > > > > > > > 2000 lumen bulb so > it > > can be easy to > > > > > > increase > > > > > > > your lighting without > > > > > > > > > increasing the > wattage. > > DO NOT try to > > > > > use HO > > > > > > or > > > > > > > VHO bulbs... which > > > > > > > > > look similar but > have > > much higher > > > > > wattage, > > > > > > well > > > > > > > over the 40W bulbs you > > > > > > > > > now have. These > other HO > > and VHO bulbs > > > > > have > > > > > > > different pin arrangements > > > > > > > > > so they will not > fit in > > your fixture > > > > > anyhow > > > > > > but I > > > > > > > just wanted to save > > > > > > > > > you a trip. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Last but not least, > if > > you're handy, > > > > > you > > > > > > could > > > > > > > even take the bulbs out > > > > > > > > > of your fixtures > and > > line the insides > > > > > of > > > > > > your > > > > > > > fixtures with nice and > > > > > > > > > crisp and flat > aluminum > > foil (shiny > > > > > side > > > > > > exposed) > > > > > > > which will also > > > > > > > > > help. Using double > stick > > tape and then > > > > > > carefully > > > > > > > applying the foil so > > > > > > > > > it does not wrinkle > too > > much will work > > > > > > well... > > > > > > > especially if the > > > > > > > > > inside of your > fixture > > is black. A > > > > > white > > > > > > > reflector is good but a > > > > > > > > > mirrored reflector, > like > > that created > > > > > by > > > > > > the > > > > > > > shiny side of foil, is > > > > > > > > > MUCH better than a > black > > reflector. > > > > > Most > > > > > > black > > > > > > > fixtures do at least > > > > > > > > > have white > reflector > > areas. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > > > > > > > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>> > > > > > > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > > > > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>>> > > > > > > > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>> > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>>>> > > > > > > > > (Links to any articles > > referenced in > > > > > > > > > above reply are > listed > > on the right > > > > > side, > > > > > > > alphabetically under Labels > > > > > > > > > and also under > Archives > > by Year, > > > > > Month) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -----Original > > Message----- > > > > > > > > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > > > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On > > > > > > > Behalf Of erikaandnewton > > > > > > > > > Sent: Tuesday, > November > > 10, 2009 10:17 > > > > > AM > > > > > > > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > > > Subject: > [AquaticLife] > > Re: > > > > > > wisteria/lighting > > > > > > > previous > > > > > > > > > question/response > > revisited > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > << When you > say > > "two strips" do > > > > > you > > > > > > have > > > > > > > two 4' long two-bulb > fixtures > > > > > > > > > already or > something > > else?>> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > i have two 4' > single > > bulb strip > > > > > lights. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> What kind > of > > lighting do you > > > > > > currently > > > > > > > have? Look at the bulbs and > > > > > > > > > >> there > should be > > some kind of > > > > > > writing on > > > > > > > one of the ends. Give us > > > > > > > > > >> that info > if > > you cannot > > > > > decipher > > > > > > it > > > > > > > yourself.<< > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > one bulb is a f40 > t10 > > > > > > > > > the other one is a > > sylvania daylight > > > > > bulb > > > > > > also > > > > > > > f40 > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> It's > probably > > 21" tall, since > > > > > a > > > > > > common > > > > > > > measurement for a 75G is > > > > > > > > > >> > 48"x18"x21" > > Tall.>> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > it is 21 inches > tall > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > erika wilmington de > usa > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ------------------------------------ > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Please, DELETE this line and > > EVERYTHING below it > > > > > when > > > > > > replying, Thank > > > > > > > You. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> > > > > > > > ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , > > > > > .·´¯`·..><((((º> > > > > > > > PLEASE, when you REPLY to a > post, > > DELETE all TEXT > > > > > that > > > > > > is NOT > > > > > > > important to the reply & > if > > CHANGING the > > > > > TOPIC of > > > > > > the original message > > > > > > > MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> > i.e. > > "new subject > > > > > (was > > > > > > re: old subject)" <- > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. > > > > > > > , > > .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. > > > > > > > We Thank You in Advance for > Your > > HELP in this > > > > > matter. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > If you do not want all of > the > > groups emails, > > > > > instead > > > > > > of unsubscribing, > > > > > > > you can change your delivery > > option by clicking > > > > > on > > > > > > "Edit My > > > > > > > Membership" on the home > page. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com > > > > > > <mailto:aquaticlife-digest%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > <mailto:aquaticlife-digest%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > to receive the digest, which > > includes up to 25 > > > > > posts > > > > > > at a time in a > > > > > > > single email > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com > > > > > > <mailto:aquaticlife-nomail%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > <mailto:aquaticlife-nomail%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > for the No E-Mail option > where you > > will still be > > > > > able > > > > > > to read messages > > > > > > > on the group and post > replies. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com > > > > > > <mailto:aquaticlife-normal%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > <mailto:aquaticlife-normal%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > to receive individual > > e-mails.Yahoo! Groups > > > > > Links > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > AquaticLife-fullfeatured@yahoogroups.com > > > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife-fullfeatured%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife-fullfeatured%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ><br/><br/>(Message over 64 KB, truncated)

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 44468	From: bill 1433	Date: 11/12/2009
Subject: Re: wisteria/lighting previous question/response revisited

Hi Len, Like I said, they are a 1/2" but so far all I can find around here are "cool white" and "warm light" bulbs. Bill --- On Thu, 11/12/09, Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@...> wrote: > From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@...> > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: wisteria/lighting previous question/response revisited > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Date: Thursday, November 12, 2009, 3:48 PM > Bulb diameter is easy.  Take the > bulb and place it over a ruler/tape > measurer and look straight down on it.  It should be > easy to discern between > 1/2" (T-4) and 1" (T-8) and the T-5 (5/8") uses a > completely different > single pin on each end so that would eliminate that > bulb.  Or better yet.. > take your bulb to the WalMart and compare apples to apples > and you'll then > know exactly what you have and also be able to see what > your local WalMart > offers as far as better bulbs.  You can probably get > much more lighting with > a new $5.00 to $10.00 bulb. > > Then Santa can still bring you the bigger tank and > accessories and your > other tanks will also be far more functional in case you > choose to sell them > or just have more tanks.  As far as selling your > unused stuff, > CraigsList.org is free and you can renew the ad every week > until you find > the right buyer who is willing to pay the best price you > can get. > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed > on the right > side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives > by Year, Month) > > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] > On > Behalf Of bill 1433 > Sent: Thursday, November 12, 2009 2:27 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: wisteria/lighting previous > question/response > revisited > > Bulb Diameter Len, and now you see my problem.  I > haven't found any either. > Also reading and studying all that you have sent me so far > I come away from > all of this with one single thought, is it worth it?  > > > With all this being said and it so close to the time for a > visit from > "Santa", I'm wondering if I should not put all you have > taught me to better > use by just getting something like a standard 55-gallon > tank!  These lights > do cost a bit but there is not a huge different between > size vs. cost from a > 29 to a 55.  Then to is the issue of what to do with > the plastic covers I > already have should I go to the all glass covers. > > Sell them, sure but to whom?  Remember, I'm the guy > that has a hard time > just trying to find a place to buy fish around here, there > just aren't that > many places or people.  No matter what I do, I promise > to keep you posted. > > Thanks for all you've taught and helped me with, > > Bill > > > --- On Thu, 11/12/09, Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@...> > wrote: > > > From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@...> > > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: wisteria/lighting > previous > question/response revisited > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > Date: Thursday, November 12, 2009, 2:42 PM > > Once again Bill.... you need to get > > away from the "Watts" mindset.  It's > > just not applicable with the wide array of bulbs > available > > nowadays.  That > > link goes to a CFL light strip and 65 watts of CFL > lighting > > is a LOT, LOT, > > LOT (3 LOTS) more lighting than 65 watts of an > incandescent > > bulb and a LOT, > > LOT (2 LOTS) more lighting than a 65W normal > fluorescent > > bulb.  This would > > probably increase your lighting by 10X's over what you > have > > now.  If you > > just went with 20W (range) CFL's, you'd get 2-3X's > more > > light than you > > currently have.  > > > > You still need to do some more research on your > current > > bulbs to find out > > the specs on them.  Without knowing your current > > specs, it's difficult to > > know how much more lighting you might want/need. > > > > Since you got your fixture and bulbs from DFS, I just > did a > > search of '17 > > watt fluorescent' and four bulbs came up.. one was a > CFL so > > that wasn't it > > and the other three are below BUT none of them are > T-4's... > > in fact, so far, > > I have not been able to find a T-4, 17W bulb > > anywhere.  What are you > > measuring to come up with the 1/2" figure?  Bulb > > diameter, pin separation or > > other??? > > > > http://www.drsfostersmith.com/product/prod_display.cfm?pcatid=3787 > > (24", > > T-8, 5500K, nothing for lumens) > > > > http://www.drsfostersmith.com/product/prod_display.cfm?pcatid=4491 > > (24", > > T-8, Actinic 420nm, nothing for lumens) > > > > http://www.drsfostersmith.com/product/prod_display.cfm?pcatid=4489 > > (24", > > T-8, 6500K, nothing for lumens) > > > > You need to take your bulb out and go to a local > lighting > > store (department) > > or even the Walmart and see if they can give you more > info > > on it or at least > > you might find identical sized bulbs that do have > specs on > > them so you can > > be more informed about what you have. > > > > While I was at the DFS site, and since you previously > > mentioned that you > > have an All-Glass hood that came with the one bulb > light > > strip, I did a > > search on DFS for 'All-Glass light' and found this > link for > > the only single > > bulb light strip that All-Glass has on DFS' site. > > > > http://www.drsfostersmith.com/product/prod_display.cfm?pcatid=3793 > > > > It comes in 16" or 20" lengths.  There's a link to > > "View compatible Bulbs" > > in the Description tab, which brings up a page of > bulbs and > > ALL of the ones > > compatible for the 20" strip are T-8 bulbs.  There > are > > a couple of dozen > > bulbs listed so I didn't go through them and > unfortunately, > > they do NOT list > > the wattage on that list so I wasn't able to find any > 17W > > bulbs without > > checking a bunch of links.  Since it was an > All-Glass > > fixture, I did click > > on the first All-Glass brand bulb which brought up > this > > page... > > > > http://www.drsfostersmith.com/product/prod_display.cfm?pcatid=12850 > > > > And you will see that there is either an 18", 15W bulb > or a > > 24", 17W bulb, > > as well as others... and these are the 8000K bulbs > which > > were listed in the > > description on the website link that you posted > earlier > > BUT.. these are ALL > > T-8 bulbs, not T-4's so we're back to that spec issue > > again.  This page does > > call them 8000K Daylight, Full Spectrum bulbs so maybe > they > > are OK but I > > wish that the DFS site would list lumens since that is > a > > critical, > > need-to-know piece of information that is missing.  > As > > seen in my previous > > posts, the same sized bulbs can have a lumen output > that is > > 50% to 100% > > higher than a comparable bulb of the same size... and > that > > makes a HUGE > > difference in lighting. > > > > Once again, take the bulb to your WalMart and compare > > apples to apples and > > find out exactly what size bulb you have and while > there, > > look at other > > identical sized bulbs and look for the highest lumens > in > > the 5000K to 6500K > > range, buy one and bring it home and see if it's a > LOT > > brighter than what > > you now have.  If so, that might do the trick. > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > > (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are > listed > > on the right > > side, alphabetically under Labels and also under > Archives > > by Year, Month) > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] > > On > > Behalf Of bill 1433 > > Sent: Thursday, November 12, 2009 12:12 PM > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: wisteria/lighting > previous > > question/response > > revisited > > > > Hi Amber, > > > > The links Len provided are very close BUT it's the > ends of > > the tube or pins > > that worry me.  They are very close but "how"? > > > > Meaning this buying the tube, ok by mail?  Now what > if > > it doesn't work? > > Rreturn a $10.00 tube the postage would cost more.  > > I'm trying to work > > backward now from Len's link, and get a manufacture so > I > > can buy around > > here.  Also I'm getting made enough now to scrape > the > > whole thing and just > > get a new All-Glass cover then maybe one of these: > > > > > > > http://www.drsfostersmith.com/product/prod_display.cfm?c=3578+3733+9654+9871 > > &pcatid=9871 > > > > This link is not pointing to the exact Coralife > product I > > want at Doctors > > its # apn-16981, if you have their catalog but I can't > make > > it come up on > > search at their site.  It is a single rated at 65 > > watts and is 24". > > > > Bill > > --- On Thu, 11/12/09, Amber Berglund <arberglund@...> > > wrote: > > > > > From: Amber Berglund <arberglund@...> > > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: wisteria/lighting > > previous > > question/response revisited > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > > Date: Thursday, November 12, 2009, 12:59 PM > > > Bill does have T-4's if I remember > > > correctly, maybe one of those 20watt > > > bulbs will work for him and provide more lumens > than > > his > > > current bulbs do. > > > Did you check those links out Bill? ;) > > > > > > Amber > > > > > > Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > > > > > > > > Just because a fixture currently has a T-8 > or > > T-10, > > > does not mean it > > > > cannot > > > > use a T-12, and vice versa. They are all > medium > > bi-pin > > > bulbs, meaning they > > > > all will fit and work UNLESS the reflector > is so > > tight > > > that a T-12 cannot > > > > fit inside the fixture but I haven't seen > this as > > a > > > problem in the past. > > > > Usually, going with a T-8 or T-10, instead > of a > > T-12 > > > will give more lumens > > > > but in the case of this particular sized > bulb, > > the > > > T-12 may be the better > > > > option. Of course, we still need more > details on > > > Bill's exact bulb. We > > > > still do not know anything except that it's > 17 > > > watts... nothing about > > > > lumens, K rating or anything else for > comparison > > > purposes. As Johnny 5 > > > > once > > > > said... "Need more input!" (I have no clue > why > > that > > > OLD movie line popped > > > > into my head and I can't blame it on drugs > since > > I > > > didn't/don't do them... > > > > and as far as I know, beer doesn't cause > acid > > > flashbacks. LOL > > > > http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Short_Circuit > > > > <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Short_Circuit>) > > > > > > > > Now... thinking back a little. Bill may > have > > T-4's and > > > if he does, those > > > > use the miniature bi-pin base and the above > > larger > > > T-#'s with medium > > > > bi-pin > > > > base would not work. If this is the case, > there > > are > > > other options > > > > listed on > > > > this page... > > > > > > http://www.servicelighting.com/T4-Straight-Linear-Fluorescent-Light-Bulbs > > > > > > > > > > <http://www.servicelighting.com/T4-Straight-Linear-Fluorescent-Light-Bulbs> > > > > including this 20W, 6400K, 1340 Lumens bulb > - > > > > > > > http://www.servicelighting.com/Bulbrite-85220-F20T4-64K-F20T4-D-T4-Straight- > > > > > > > > > > <http://www.servicelighting.com/Bulbrite-85220-F20T4-64K-F20T4-D-T4-Straight > > -> > > > > Linear-Fluorescent-Light-Bulb, which sounds > like > > a > > > pretty good bulb > > > > from the > > > > specs and actually provides more lumens than > any > > of > > > the T-12's previously > > > > listed. > > > > > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > > (Links to any articles referenced in above > reply > > are > > > listed on the right > > > > side, alphabetically under Labels and also > under > > > Archives by Year, Month) > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On > > > > Behalf Of Amber Berglund > > > > Sent: Thursday, November 12, 2009 10:29 AM > > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: > wisteria/lighting > > > previous > > > > question/response > > > > revisited > > > > > > > > Bill has smaller bulbs, I think they are not > easy > > to > > > find in a higher > > > > wattage output, which is what he was looking > for > > a few > > > months back. > > > > > > > > Amber > > > > > > > > Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > > > > > > > > > > I don't know what you mean by this. > Please > > > elaborate. What size tube? > > > > > I posted about several different bulbs > but > > all > > > were T-12's, which is > > > > > one of the most common sizes. > > > > > > > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > > > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>> > > > > (Links to any articles referenced in > > > > > above reply are listed on the right > side, > > > alphabetically under Labels > > > > > and also under Archives by Year, > Month) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On > > > Behalf Of bill 1433 > > > > > Sent: Thursday, November 12, 2009 8:59 > AM > > > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: > > wisteria/lighting > > > previous > > > > > question/response revisited > > > > > > > > > > Yes Len, > > > > > > > > > > But its finding that size tube with > more of > > > anything that's the problem. > > > > > > > > > > Bill > > > > > > > > > > --- On Wed, 11/11/09, Lenny V. aka > > GoldLenny > > > <GoldLenny@... > > > > > > > <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com> > > > > > > <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com>> > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny > <GoldLenny@... > > > > > > > <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com> > > > > > > <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com>> > > > > > > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: > > > wisteria/lighting previous > > > > > > question/response revisited > > > > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > Date: Wednesday, November 11, > 2009, > > 5:22 PM > > > Well, if you only have > > > > > > 17W, then you could definitely do > > better > > > with the 20W, higher lumen, > > > > > > better K rating bulbs that I > > mentioned. > > > Considering the lumen > > > > > > ratings of fluorescent bulbs I've > > looked at, > > > your 17W bulbs might > > > > > > only have 500-700 lumens where the > BEST > > 20W > > > bulb (below) has > > > > > > 1075 lumens so you > > > > > > could possibly increase your > lighting > > by 50% > > > to 100% just by > > > > > > changing to that bulb. At least, > with > > that > > > bulb, you'll be in the > > > > > > low-light range for plants on the > 20G > > but > > > the 29G will need some work. > > > > > > > > > > > > Of course, you should find out > what > > the > > > lumens and K ratings are on > > > > > > the bulbs you have so you'll know > if > > you are > > > getting a small jump or > > > > > > a BIG jump in lighting just by > changing > > your > > > bulbs. Check your local > > > > > > WalMart for bulbs. My nearby > WalMart > > > SuperCenter has a really big > > > > > > assortment of fluorescent tubes > and > > they > > > were cheaper than the Home > > > > > > Depot. > > > > > > > > > > > > Something else I'm thinking about > for > > you is > > > going with 18" > > > > > > light-sticks on > > > > > > each end of your 29G tank or front > or > > back > > > (back would hide it best > > > > > > but you decide your best > aesthetics) > > and > > > you'd have to make a DIY > > > > > > reflector for it (white poster > board > > and > > > scotch tape would work) and > > > > > > that would get more lighting down > to > > the > > > bottom level plants in the > > > > > > 29G. > > > > > > > > > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > > > > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>> > > > > (Links to any articles > > > > > > referenced in above reply are > listed on > > the > > > right side, > > > > > > alphabetically under Labels and > also > > under > > > Archives by Year, Month) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > > > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] > > > > > > On > > > > > > Behalf Of bill 1433 > > > > > > Sent: Wednesday, November 11, 2009 > 3:42 > > PM > > > > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: > > > wisteria/lighting previous > > > > > > question/response revisited > > > > > > > > > > > > It is what it is type of thing > Len. > > Site > > > says one thing but stamped > > > > > > or printed right on the tube is at > 17 > > > watts. > > > > > > > > > > > > Bill > > > > > > > > > > > > --- On Wed, 11/11/09, Lenny V. > aka > > GoldLenny > > > <GoldLenny@... > > > > > > > <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com> > > > > > > <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com>> > > > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny > > <GoldLenny@... > > > > > > > <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com> > > > > > > <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com>> > > > > > > > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] > Re: > > > wisteria/lighting > > > > > > previous > > > > > > > question/response revisited > > > > > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > Date: Wednesday, November > 11, > > 2009, > > > 2:16 PM The > > > > > > problem might be this > > > > > > > statement in the > description... > > > > > > > > > > > > > > "... Hoods include 8000ºK > > bulb... > > > ...20W, 24"..." > > > > > > > > > > > > > > That's getting into the > higher > > > green/blue Kelvin > > > > > > range... > > > > > > > closer to the > > > > > > > 10,000K actinic type bulbs... > than > > the > > > 5000K to 6500K > > > > > > "Daylight" bulbs > > > > > > > that provide full spectrum > > lighting. > > > It's also only > > > > > > a 20W bulb > > > > > > > (according to the DFS site, > > although > > > you stated it was > > > > > > only 17W so > > > > > > > double check this) so it's > only > > 1WPG on > > > the 20G and > > > > > > only 0.69WPG on > > > > > > > the 29G. Of course, if the > bulb > > puts > > > out a LOT more > > > > > > lumens (you would > > > > > > > have to do more checking up > on the > > bulb > > > to find this), > > > > > > that would help > > > > > > > a little but not much. I > think you > > need > > > at least > > > > > > 1WPG to have success > > > > > > > with low-light plants, > although > > > floating plants like > > > > > > Anacharis, > > > > > > > Hornwort, Duckweed, etc., > would be > > up > > > close to the > > > > > > light and benefit > > > > > > > from CO2 from the air and > would do > > OK > > > with your > > > > > > lighting... but then > > > > > > > they would also block out > the > > lighting > > > to the rest of > > > > > > the tank. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I don't see a lot of options, > as > > far as > > > T-8 bulbs are > > > > > > concerned for > > > > > > > this size fixture but I see a > few > > > different T-12's... > > > > > > such as... > > > > > > > > > > > > > > (My rating is: GOOD - but > see > > BETTER > > > and BEST options > > > > > > below... at > > > > > > > least as far as the bulbs on > this > > site > > > are concerned) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > http://www.servicelighting.com/Sylvania-22119-F20T12-DSGN50-T12-Straig > > > > > > > > <http://www.servicelighting.com/Sylvania-22119-F20T12-DSGN50-T12-Straig> > > > > > > > > > <http://www.servicelighting.com/Sylvania-22119-F20T12-DSGN50-T12-Strai > > > > > > > > <http://www.servicelighting.com/Sylvania-22119-F20T12-DSGN50-T12-Strai> > > > > > g> > > > > > > > ht-Lin > > > > > > > ear-Fluorescent-Light-Bulb > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Light Output: 880 lumens > > > > > > > Refers to the literal measure > of > > the > > > light-output of a > > > > > > particular > > > > > > > light bulb, measured in the > number > > of > > > lumens. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Energy Used: 20 watts > > > > > > > "Watts" is the term applied > to > > the > > > amount of energy > > > > > > required and used > > > > > > > by a particular light bulb. > It is > > an > > > international > > > > > > system unit of > > > > > > > power equal to one joule per > > second. > > > Contrary to > > > > > > popular belief, the > > > > > > > wattage of a bulb does not > > directly > > > measure the > > > > > > brightness; the > > > > > > > "lumens" of a light is what > > defines the > > > actual light > > > > > > output. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Average Lifetime: 9,000 > hours > > > > > > > This refers to an average > > lifetime > > > rating based on > > > > > > large quantities in > > > > > > > test groups. This testing > takes > > into > > > account usage of > > > > > > 3 hours per > > > > > > > start for fluorescent lamps > and > > 10 > > > hours per start for > > > > > > HID lamps. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Bulb Type: T12 > > > > > > > The "Bulb Type" is typically > a > > > combination of the > > > > > > style of bulb as > > > > > > > well as the width of the > bulb. > > Usually, > > > the first > > > > > > couple letters will > > > > > > > indicate the type; "G" would > > indicate > > > "Globe", "PAR" > > > > > > would indicate > > > > > > > "Parabolic Reflector"... The > > numbers > > > indicate the > > > > > > diameter of the > > > > > > > light bulb in eighths of an > inch; > > a > > > "G40" would be a > > > > > > "Globe" style > > > > > > > that is "5 inches" in > diameter. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Base Type: Medium Bi-Pin > > > > > > > The "Base" of a light bulb is > the > > part > > > that either > > > > > > screws or snaps > > > > > > > into a receptacle. Base Type > > > terminology may indicate > > > > > > common > > > > > > > descriptive words like > "Medium" > > or > > > "Candelabra", or > > > > > > may even contain > > > > > > > numeric codes that signify > size > > and > > > variety, like > > > > > > "E26" or "2GX13". > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Color Temperature: 5,000K > > > > > > > Correlated Color Temperature > (CCT) > > is a > > > specification > > > > > > of the color > > > > > > > appearance of a lamp, > relating > > its > > > color to that of a > > > > > > reference source > > > > > > > heated to a particular > > temperature, > > > measured in > > > > > > degrees Kelvin (K). It > > > > > > > generally measures the > "warmth" > > or > > > "coolness" of light > > > > > > source > > > > > > > appearance. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > CRI: 90 > > > > > > > CRI refers to the "Color > > Rendering > > > Index" of a light > > > > > > bulb. > > > > > > > CRI measures a > > > > > > > light source and grades its > > ability to > > > render the > > > > > > color of objects > > > > > > > "correctly," as compared with > a > > > reference source with > > > > > > comparable color > > > > > > > temperature. 100 is perfect > > rendering. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Length: 24 inches > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > (BETTER - slightly higher > lumens > > and > > > higher 6500K > > > > > > rating) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > http://www.servicelighting.com/Westinghouse-36516-F20T12-FS-T12-Straig > > > > > > > > <http://www.servicelighting.com/Westinghouse-36516-F20T12-FS-T12-Straig> > > > > > > > > > <http://www.servicelighting.com/Westinghouse-36516-F20T12-FS-T12-Strai > > > > > > > > <http://www.servicelighting.com/Westinghouse-36516-F20T12-FS-T12-Strai> > > > > > g> > > > > > > > ht-Lin > > > > > > > ear-Fluorescent-Light-Bulb > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Light Output: 900 lumens > > > > > > > Energy Used: 20 watts > > > > > > > Average Lifetime: 10,000 > hours > > > > > > > Bulb Type: T12 > > > > > > > Base Type: Medium Bi-Pin > > > > > > > Color Temperature: 6,500K > > > > > > > CRI: 90 > > > > > > > Length: 24 inches > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > (BEST, of these three - > around > > 20% > > > higher lumens and > > > > > > good 6,500K > > > > > > > rating, although it does have > a > > lower > > > CRI rating.. but > > > > > > still > > > > > > > passing) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > http://www.servicelighting.com/Sylvania-22083-F20T12-D-T12-Straight-Li > > > > > > > > <http://www.servicelighting.com/Sylvania-22083-F20T12-D-T12-Straight-Li> > > > > > > > > > <http://www.servicelighting.com/Sylvania-22083-F20T12-D-T12-Straight-L > > > > > > > > <http://www.servicelighting.com/Sylvania-22083-F20T12-D-T12-Straight-L> > > > > > i> > > > > > > > near-F > > > > > > > luorescent-Light-Bulb > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Light Output: 1,075 lumens > > > > > > > Energy Used: 20 watts > > > > > > > Average Lifetime: 9,000 > hours > > > > > > > Bulb Type: T12 > > > > > > > Base Type: Medium Bi-Pin > > > > > > > Color Temperature: 6,500K > > > > > > > CRI: 76 > > > > > > > Length: 24 inches > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Compare the above three to > what is > > sold > > > as a > > > > > > plant/aquarium light by > > > > > > > the same company, which has > a > > lower > > > lumens, MUCH lower > > > > > > CRI rating and > > > > > > > does not list the K rating > other > > than > > > to say "Plant" > > > > > > which is a > > > > > > > subjective rating established > by > > the > > > manufacturer. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > (WORST) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > http://www.servicelighting.com/Westinghouse-36411-F20T12-PL-T12-Straig > > > > > > > > <http://www.servicelighting.com/Westinghouse-36411-F20T12-PL-T12-Straig> > > > > > > > > > <http://www.servicelighting.com/Westinghouse-36411-F20T12-PL-T12-Strai > > > > > > > > <http://www.servicelighting.com/Westinghouse-36411-F20T12-PL-T12-Strai> > > > > > g> > > > > > > > ht-Lin > > > > > > > ear-Fluorescent-Light-Bulb > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Light Output: 700 lumens > (over 30% > > less > > > lighting > > > > > > than the 1,075 > > > > > > > lumens bulb > > > > > > > above) > > > > > > > Energy Used: 20 watts > > > > > > > Average Lifetime: 10,000 > hours > > > > > > > Bulb Type: T12 > > > > > > > Base Type: Medium Bi-Pin > > > > > > > Color: Plant > > > > > > > CRI: 61 > > > > > > > Length: 24 inches > > > > > > > > > > > > > > If any of the above have > much > > better > > > lumens than your > > > > > > current > > > > > > > lighting... > > > > > > > and they all have better K > > ratings, > > > then any of them > > > > > > would be better > > > > > > > for you... but you would > still be > > stuck > > > with only 20 > > > > > > watts but it's > > > > > > > the LUMENS and K rating that > count > > more > > > than watts. > > > > > > You need to find > > > > > > > out the lumens on your bulb. > Try > > to > > > find it on the > > > > > > DFS site and let > > > > > > > us know. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > You should look at the > > AHSupply.com > > > place for a > > > > > > retrofit kit so you > > > > > > > can use CFL's in your > current > > hood. > > > That would > > > > > > probably be your least > > > > > > > expensive option. I know you > don't > > like > > > electricity > > > > > > but I'm sure you > > > > > > > know someone that could do > this > > for > > > you... on the > > > > > > cheap... or over a > > > > > > > 6-pack. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > > > > > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>> > > > > (Links to > > > > > > any articles > > > > > > > referenced in above reply > are > > listed on > > > the right > > > > > > side, alphabetically > > > > > > > under Labels and also under > > Archives by > > > Year, Month) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > > > > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] > > > > > > > On > > > > > > > Behalf Of bill 1433 > > > > > > > Sent: Wednesday, November 11, > 2009 > > 9:33 > > > AM > > > > > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] > Re: > > > wisteria/lighting > > > > > > previous > > > > > > > question/response > > > > > > > revisited > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Hi \\Steve// > > > > > > > > > > > > > > At this point, and also to > refresh > > your > > > mind, and > > > > > > anyone > > > > > > > else on the group > > > > > > > that may have interest. This > all > > got > > > started with > > > > > > my > > > > > > > search for a tube that > > > > > > > would allow me more light > output > > from > > > an All Glass > > > > > > Plastic > > > > > > > hood and light. > > > > > > > This unit comes with a "color > type > > tube > > > at 17 watts > > > > > > that is > > > > > > > only 24 inches > > > > > > > long. This is for a > 20/29-gallon > > tank. > > > I was stupid enough to buy > > > > > > > two of them, one for each > tank. > > For > > > further inspection > > > > > > here > > > > > > > is the light: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > http://www.drsfostersmith.com/product/prod_display.cfm?pcatid=13447 > > > > > > > <http://www.drsfostersmith.com/product/prod_display.cfm?pcatid=13447> > > > > > <http://www.drsfostersmith.com/product/prod_display.cfm?pcatid=13447 > > > > > > > <http://www.drsfostersmith.com/product/prod_display.cfm?pcatid=13447>> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > For those that would like to > > aggravate > > > themselves > > > > > > further, > > > > > > > I can also state > > > > > > > that these hoods are very > > conducive to > > > growing Black Algae! > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Summoning up, I should have > only > > > purchased an > > > > > > All-Glass > > > > > > > cover and then > > > > > > > probably a double tube light > of > > > sufficient wattage to > > > > > > bring > > > > > > > me up to the > > > > > > > recommended 2 or 3 watts per > > gallon. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Ya live and learn, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Bill > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > --- On Tue, 11/10/09, Steve > Szabo > > > <steve@... > > > > > > > <mailto:steve%40familyszabo.com> > > > > > > <mailto:steve%40familyszabo.com>> > > > > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > From: Steve Szabo <steve@... > > > > > > > <mailto:steve%40familyszabo.com> > > > > > > <mailto:steve%40familyszabo.com>> > > > > > > > > Subject: RE: > [AquaticLife] > > Re: > > > wisteria/lighting > > > > > > > previous > > > > > > > > question/response > revisited > > > > > > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > > Date: Tuesday, November > 10, > > 2009, > > > 11:50 PM Bill, > > > > > > you > > > > > > > got it right! The > > > > > > > > T numbers represent the > > diameter > > > of the bulb in > > > > > > 1/8" > > > > > > > increments. A T4 > > > > > > > > is a bulb 1/2" in > diameter, > > T5 is > > > 5/8", t8 is > > > > > > 1" and > > > > > > > a t12 is 1 1/2". > > > > > > > > As I recall, the F is > the > > wattage > > > of the bulb. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Lumens, not usually > stated on > > the > > > bulb is the > > > > > > actual > > > > > > > amount of light > > > > > > > > coming from the bulb. > It > > really > > > does not have > > > > > > anything > > > > > > > to do with > > > > > > > > watts, though more watts > will > > give > > > you more > > > > > > lumens, > > > > > > > but, also the > > > > > > > > phosphors used in the > bulb > > affect > > > the amount of > > > > > > lumen > > > > > > > output. Lumens > > > > > > > > and lux are often used > > > interchangeably, but they > > > > > > are > > > > > > > really different > > > > > > > > measurements. Lux is > the > > measure > > > of illumination > > > > > > over > > > > > > > a given area. It > > > > > > > > may actually be more > > important to > > > aquarists > > > > > > raising > > > > > > > plants than the > > > > > > > > lumen output. Lux is > what is > > > measured by a light > > > > > > > meter, for anyone who > > > > > > > > happens to know what > they > > are--not > > > often seen > > > > > > with > > > > > > > today's cameras and > > > > > > > > photographers. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Color temperature is > > important. > > > Average daylight > > > > > > > (except may in > > > > > > > > Amber's area where they > have > > 6 > > > months of > > > > > > darkness) has > > > > > > > a color > > > > > > > > temperature of > 5500-6000. > > > > > > > > An overcast day can have > a > > color > > > temperature of > > > > > > 6500. > > > > > > > As mentioned > > > > > > > > earlier, plants need > light in > > two > > > color > > > > > > spectrums, > > > > > > > and, actually they > > > > > > > > are rather narrow spans > of > > > wavelengths they > > > > > > benefit > > > > > > > from. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I thought I had a > bookmark > > > explaining this, but > > > > > > I > > > > > > > can't find it > > > > > > > > quickly (over 400K of > > bookmarks, > > > and things have > > > > > > a > > > > > > > tendency to get > > > > > > > > lost), however, some > > judicial > > > Googling will gain > > > > > > you > > > > > > > the information. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > \\Steve// > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -----Original > Message----- > > > > > > > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] > > > > > > > > On > > > > > > > > Behalf Of bill 1433 > > > > > > > > Sent: Tuesday, November > 10, > > 2009 > > > 10:20 PM > > > > > > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > > Subject: Re: > [AquaticLife] > > Re: > > > wisteria/lighting > > > > > > > previous > > > > > > > > question/response > revisited > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Yes, Amber > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > It was I, looking for > the > > original > > > information > > > > > > and > > > > > > > also looked back on > > > > > > > > \\Steve//'s post at > group to > > try > > > and find. Ray > > > > > > had > > > > > > > mentioned all this > > > > > > > > the other day saying > that he > > > thought the posting > > > > > > came > > > > > > > from \\Steve//. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I was not successful in > my > > search. > > > Also, for me > > > > > > the > > > > > > > most important > > > > > > > > part was a link to a > chart > > which > > > showed you > > > > > > exactly, > > > > > > > or explained > > > > > > > > exactly the "T" > > > > > > > > factor stands for. For > > instance, > > > T-4 would be a > > > > > > tube > > > > > > > that is a half > > > > > > > > inch wide, or close to > > > it-----------I think. > > > > > > All > > > > > > > this is my own > > > > > > > > fault. In my interest > to > > acquire > > > and learn > > > > > > about > > > > > > > lighting,I went > > > > > > > > through and studied the > > applied > > > links but being > > > > > > > ol'bill, I never > > > > > > > > bookmarked them. > > > > > > > > Then to further > > > > > > > > compound the problem, I > > deleted > > > the original > > > > > > message > > > > > > > that it came > > > > > > > > from. In hind-sight you > > could > > > probably chalk > > > > > > this > > > > > > > all up to felonious > > > > > > > > stupidity on my part. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Bill---where its always > a > > good day > > > if I learn > > > > > > > something new! > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > --- On Tue, 11/10/09, > Amber > > > Berglund <arberglund@... > > > > > > > <mailto:arberglund%40gmail.com> > > > > > > <mailto:arberglund%40gmail.com>> > > > > > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > From: Amber Berglund > <arberglund@... > > > > > > > <mailto:arberglund%40gmail.com> > > > > > > <mailto:arberglund%40gmail.com>> > > > > > > > > Subject: Re: > [AquaticLife] > > Re: > > > wisteria/lighting > > > > > > > previous > > > > > > > > question/response > revisited > > > > > > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > > Date: Tuesday, November > 10, > > 2009, > > > 9:30 PM > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I believe it was Steve > who > > posted > > > a link about > > > > > > lumens > > > > > > > months back when > > > > > > > > (I think it was maybe > Bill > > asking) > > > about lighting > > > > > > for > > > > > > > planted > > > > > > > > aquariums. > > > > > > > > Plants require 2 > different > > > spectrums of light to > > > > > > > properly produce > > > > > > > > either leaves or flowers > (red > > is > > > more for flower > > > > > > > production and blue > > > > > > > > is more for growth, but > for > > the > > > best growing you > > > > > > want > > > > > > > a mixture of > > > > > > > > BOTH colors). > > > > > > > > So in reality you would > want > > a > > > light that appears > > > > > > more > > > > > > > brown/reddish > > > > > > > > in coloring and a > blue/white > > > coloring as well, > > > > > > but > > > > > > > they now have bulbs > > > > > > > > that have BOTH > spectrums > > built in > > > (I'm sure they > > > > > > don't > > > > > > > work as well as > > > > > > > > it would to have 2 > different > > bulbs > > > one mostly red > > > > > > and > > > > > > > the other mostly > > > > > > > > blue on the color > spectrum). > > > > > > > > Let me see if I still > have > > the > > > link bookmarked. > > > > > > > > What I was trying to say > is > > that > > > Kelvin does not > > > > > > tell > > > > > > > you what color > > > > > > > > spectrum the light > REALLY is, > > it's > > > actually > > > > > > measuring > > > > > > > it's light > > > > > > > > output color according > to how > > the > > > human eyes > > > > > > perceive > > > > > > > it. So 6500 > > > > > > > > kelvin in general is > what > > most > > > plants will > > > > > > prefer > > > > > > > because that is a > > > > > > > > mixture of both red and > blue > > > spectrums (In MOST > > > > > > bulbs) > > > > > > > unfortunately > > > > > > > > not all light bulb > > manufactures > > > have to use the > > > > > > exact > > > > > > > same chart for > > > > > > > > their colors, so they > will > > have > > > different colors > > > > > > than > > > > > > > another bulb > > > > > > > > that says it's 6500 > Kelvin. > > what > > > you really need > > > > > > to > > > > > > > read is the color > > > > > > > > chart on the box, not > what > > lumens > > > it says it is. > > > > > > > > (still searching for > link, > > LOL). > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > This isn't the right > link but > > it > > > discusses the > > > > > > > kelvin/lumen problems a > > > > > > > > little bit, still > looking for > > the > > > link that > > > > > > showed the > > > > > > > charts and what > > > > > > > > to look for in the > color > > charts. > > > > > > > > http://www.americanaquariumproducts.com/Aquarium_Lighting.html > > > > > > > <http://www.americanaquariumproducts.com/Aquarium_Lighting.html> > > > > > <http://www.americanaquariumproducts.com/Aquarium_Lighting.html > > > > > > > <http://www.americanaquariumproducts.com/Aquarium_Lighting.html>> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Will post again when I > find > > the > > > other link with > > > > > > chart > > > > > > > examples. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Amber > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Lenny V. aka GoldLenny > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I think it would > be > > false > > > advertising or > > > > > > > possibly > > > > > > > > mis-advertising (if > they > > > > > > > > > do not know any > better) > > if a > > > company lists > > > > > > their > > > > > > > bulbs > > > > > > > > as 6500K and they > > > > > > > > > aren't. The Kelvin > > scale, > > > just like Watts > > > > > > and > > > > > > > Lumens, > > > > > > > > are ALL > > > > > > > > > universal and > > > > > > > > > scientifically > > measurable > > > scales BUT, as I > > > > > > > showed > > > > > > > > below, not all 40 watt > > > > > > > > > bulbs put out the > same > > amount > > > of light > > > > > > (lumens) > > > > > > > or in > > > > > > > > the same color > > > > > > > > > spectrum (Kelvin > > rating). All > > > 40 watt > > > > > > bulbs, > > > > > > > whether > > > > > > > > incandescent, > > > > > > > > > fluorescent, CFL, > LED, > > > Halogen, etc.... ALL > > > > > > use > > > > > > > > only/around 40 watts of > > > > > > > > > electricity but > their > > light > > > output can vary > > > > > > > > dramatically. This is > why > > > > > > > > > fluorescent bulbs > are so > > much > > > more > > > > > > efficient > > > > > > > than > > > > > > > > incandescent bulbs and > > > > > > > > > CFL's are even > more > > > efficient... as a 40W > > > > > > > fluorescent > > > > > > > > bulb puts out a LOT > > > > > > > > > more light (lumens) > than > > a 40 > > > watt > > > > > > incandescent > > > > > > > bulb > > > > > > > > and a 40W CFL > > > > > > > > > puts out > > > > > > > > > more light (lumens) > than > > a > > > 40W fluorescent > > > > > > bulb. > > > > > > > This > > > > > > > > is why the OLD > > > > > > > > > "Watts > > > > > > > > > Per Gallon" rule > simply > > does > > > not work any > > > > > > more. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > BUT.. if three > > different > > > companies are > > > > > > selling > > > > > > > > standard T-10 > fluorescent > > > > > > > > > bulbs with the > same > > exact > > > rating of 40W, > > > > > > 3550 > > > > > > > lumens > > > > > > > > and 6500K > > > > > > > > > rating... all > > > > > > > > > three of those > bulbs > > should > > > be VERY SIMILAR > > > > > > if > > > > > > > not > > > > > > > > identical in the > > > > > > > > > way they > > > > > > > > > appear to our eyes > > (subject > > > to our own > > > > > > degree of > > > > > > > color > > > > > > > > blindness, of > > > > > > > > > course!) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > In the past, > things > > like > > > "soft white", > > > > > > "warm > > > > > > > white", > > > > > > > > "daylight", "plant > > > > > > > > > grow", etc., type > terms > > were > > > used and are > > > > > > still > > > > > > > used > > > > > > > > but those are just > > > > > > > > > simple words (not > > subject to > > > a scientific > > > > > > scale) > > > > > > > to > > > > > > > > describe the Kelvin > > > > > > > > > rating ranges but > lumens > > are > > > just as > > > > > > important > > > > > > > since a > > > > > > > > bulb could have a > > > > > > > > > 6500K rating with > only > > 2200 > > > lumens where > > > > > > another > > > > > > > bulb > > > > > > > > could have a 6500K > > > > > > > > > rating and 3550 or > 3700 > > > lumens and that > > > > > > bulb > > > > > > > would put > > > > > > > > out over 50% more > > > > > > > > > light (lumens) in > the > > same > > > color spectrum > > > > > > > (Kelvin > > > > > > > > rating) so it would be > a > > > > > > > > > much more cost > effective > > bulb > > > if it cost > > > > > > the > > > > > > > same > > > > > > > > amount or only a little > > > > > > > > > more. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I'm slightly > confused > > about > > > the "red and > > > > > > blue > > > > > > > light > > > > > > > > for your plants" as > > > > > > > > > those two colors > are on > > > opposite ends of > > > > > > the > > > > > > > Kelvin > > > > > > > > Scale with reds and > > > > > > > > > ambers in the > lower > > numbers > > > and greens and > > > > > > blues > > > > > > > in > > > > > > > > the higher numbers. I > > > > > > > > > think this is why > you > > would > > > want a > > > > > > mid-range > > > > > > > (5000K to > > > > > > > > 6500K) bulb as > > > > > > > > > those > > > > > > > > > are generally > > considered > > > "full spectrum" or > > > > > > > "daylight" > > > > > > > > bulbs. Here's a > > > > > > > > > color picture of > the > > Kelvin > > > Scale, > > > > > > > > > http://www.bltdirect.com/images/colour-temperature.jpg > > > > > > > <http://www.bltdirect.com/images/colour-temperature.jpg> > > > > > <http://www.bltdirect.com/images/colour-temperature.jpg > > > > > > > <http://www.bltdirect.com/images/colour-temperature.jpg>> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > <http://www.bltdirect.com/images/colour-temperature.jpg > > > > > > > <http://www.bltdirect.com/images/colour-temperature.jpg> > > > > > <http://www.bltdirect.com/images/colour-temperature.jpg > > > > > > > <http://www.bltdirect.com/images/colour-temperature.jpg>>> > > > > > > > > and you can > > > > > > > > > visually > > > > > > > > > see that the 5000K > to > > 6500K > > > range is all > > > > > > about > > > > > > > the > > > > > > > > same "color". I think > > > > > > > > > this is also why > > Actinic > > > bulbs are usually > > > > > > higher > > > > > > > and > > > > > > > > closer to the 10000K > > > > > > > > > range and up... > > apparently, > > > the Kelvin > > > > > > lighting > > > > > > > scale > > > > > > > > can go up to 20,000K > > > > > > > > > (according to this > > article > > > about Reef Tanks > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > http://nh.craigslist.org/for/1423072406.html > > > > <http://nh.craigslist.org/for/1423072406.html> > > > > > <http://nh.craigslist.org/for/1423072406.html > > > > <http://nh.craigslist.org/for/1423072406.html>> > > > > > > > > > <http://nh.craigslist.org/for/1423072406.html > > > > <http://nh.craigslist.org/for/1423072406.html> > > > > > <http://nh.craigslist.org/for/1423072406.html > > > > <http://nh.craigslist.org/for/1423072406.html>>> > > > on, > > > > > > > of > > > > > > > > all places, > > > > > > > > > Craigslist). > > > > > > > > > Here is the page > that > > that > > > the above photo > > > > > > link > > > > > > > came > > > > > > > > from and it has a > > > > > > > > > chart > > > > > > > > > that also explains > > things a > > > little more also > > > > > > and > > > > > > > talks > > > > > > > > about the CRI, yet > > > > > > > > > another lighting > term > > (Color > > > Rendition > > > > > > Index). > > > > > > > > > http://www.bltdirect.com/lampColourTemperatures.php > > > > <http://www.bltdirect.com/lampColourTemperatures.php> > > > > > <http://www.bltdirect.com/lampColourTemperatures.php > > > > <http://www.bltdirect.com/lampColourTemperatures.php>> > > > > > > > > > <http://www.bltdirect.com/lampColourTemperatures.php > > > > <http://www.bltdirect.com/lampColourTemperatures.php> > > > > > <http://www.bltdirect.com/lampColourTemperatures.php > > > > <http://www.bltdirect.com/lampColourTemperatures.php>>> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > > > > > > > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>> > > > > > > > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>>> > > (Links > > > > > > > to any articles referenced > in > > > > > > > > > above reply are > > > > > > > > listed on the right > > > > > > > > > side, > alphabetically > > under > > > Labels and also > > > > > > under > > > > > > > > Archives by Year, > Month) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -----Original > > Message----- > > > > > > > > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > > > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On > > > > > > > Behalf Of Amber Berglund > > > > > > > > > Sent: Tuesday, > November > > 10, > > > 2009 4:22 PM > > > > > > > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > > > Subject: Re: > > [AquaticLife] > > > Re: > > > > > > wisteria/lighting > > > > > > > > previous > > > > > > > > > question/response > > > > > > > > > revisited > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Another thing to > > consider is > > > one light > > > > > > company's > > > > > > > 6500 > > > > > > > > kelvin rating > > > > > > > > > may not > > > > > > > > > be identical to > another > > light > > > bulb from a > > > > > > > different > > > > > > > > company that's > > > > > > > > > rated the > > > > > > > > > same. The > important > > thing to > > > look at is the > > > > > > > color > > > > > > > > chart they show on the > > > > > > > > > boxes, you want > more red > > and > > > blue light for > > > > > > your > > > > > > > > plants, green is not > > > > > > > > > useful > > > > > > > > > or harmful as the > > plants > > > reflect the light > > > > > > back > > > > > > > (makes > > > > > > > > them appear more > > > > > > > > > green but does > nothing > > else > > > for them). The > > > > > > > kelvin > > > > > > > > rating is based on our > > > > > > > > > eyes and how they > > perceive > > > color, so each > > > > > > > company > > > > > > > > doesn't have to be > > > > > > > > > identical, perhaps > some > > day > > > they will have > > > > > > a > > > > > > > universal > > > > > > > > way to measure > > > > > > > > > light > > > > > > > > > spectrums on bulbs > that > > is > > > much less > > > > > > confusing. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Amber > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Lenny V. aka > GoldLenny > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > OK. So you > have a > > total > > > of 80 watts > > > > > > right > > > > > > > now, > > > > > > > > which is just over 1 > > > > > > > > > > WPG, which > means > > you > > > only have enough > > > > > > > lighting > > > > > > > > for low-light, easy to > > > > > > > > > > grow plants. > See my > > blog > > > article > > > > > > "Planted > > > > > > > Tank: > > > > > > > > So You Want A Planted > > > > > > > > > > Tank" for > links to > > lists > > > of low-light, > > > > > > easy > > > > > > > to > > > > > > > > grow plants that will > > > > > > > > > > do OK in your > tank. > > You > > > should replace > > > > > > > those > > > > > > > > tubes at least > yearly... > > > > > > > > > > although some > say > > every > > > six months. As > > > > > > far > > > > > > > as I > > > > > > > > know, a 40W bulb is > > > > > > > > > > the highest > wattage > > made > > > for this type > > > > > > of > > > > > > > > bulb/fixture right now > but > > > > > > > > > > you can > increase > > your > > > lighting > > > > > > > > > > (lumens) and > K > > (Kelvin) > > > rating. See > > > > > > below. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > NOTE - below > links > > are > > > for > > > > > > > example/informational > > > > > > > > purposes only, as I > > > > > > > > > > know nothing > about > > the > > > sites. God... > > > > > > did I > > > > > > > just > > > > > > > > say that? Do I really > > > > > > > > > > have to add > > disclaimers > > > to my posts > > > > > > now? LOL > > > > > > > Just > > > > > > > > laughing at myself. > > > > > > > > > > LOL > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > This may be > your > > > Sylvania bulb... > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > http://www.lightbulbemporium.com/proddetail.asp?prod=F40/EX50 > > > > > > > <http://www.lightbulbemporium.com/proddetail.asp?prod=F40/EX50> > > > > > <http://www.lightbulbemporium.com/proddetail.asp?prod=F40/EX50 > > > > > > > <http://www.lightbulbemporium.com/proddetail.asp?prod=F40/EX50>> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > <http://www.lightbulbemporium.com/proddetail.asp?prod=F40/EX50 > > > > > > > <http://www.lightbulbemporium.com/proddetail.asp?prod=F40/EX50> > > > > > <http://www.lightbulbemporium.com/proddetail.asp?prod=F40/EX50 > > > > > > > <http://www.lightbulbemporium.com/proddetail.asp?prod=F40/EX50>>> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > <http://www.lightbulbemporium.com/proddetail.asp?prod=F40/EX50 > > > > > > > <http://www.lightbulbemporium.com/proddetail.asp?prod=F40/EX50> > > > > > <http://www.lightbulbemporium.com/proddetail.asp?prod=F40/EX50 > > > > > > > <http://www.lightbulbemporium.com/proddetail.asp?prod=F40/EX50>> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > <http://www.lightbulbemporium.com/proddetail.asp?prod=F40/EX50 > > > > > > > <http://www.lightbulbemporium.com/proddetail.asp?prod=F40/EX50> > > > > > <http://www.lightbulbemporium.com/proddetail.asp?prod=F40/EX50 > > > > > > > <http://www.lightbulbemporium.com/proddetail.asp?prod=F40/EX50>>>> > > > > > > > > and if > > > > > > > > > > it is, then > it's > > the > > > same ratings as > > > > > > the > > > > > > > specs in > > > > > > > > the T-10 bulb that I > > > > > > > > > > copy/pasted > below, > > which > > > is a pretty > > > > > > good > > > > > > > bulb > > > > > > > > with higher lumens and > > > > > > > > > > the higher K > > rating, > > > although not a > > > > > > 6500K > > > > > > > rated > > > > > > > > bulb. At the bottom of > > > > > > > > > > this page, > there > > was a > > > link to this > > > > > > bulb... > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > http://www.lightbulbemporium.com/maxlite_51204_ml_f40t10_850_rscg.as > > > > > > > <http://www.lightbulbemporium.com/maxlite_51204_ml_f40t10_850_rscg.as> > > > > > > > > > <http://www.lightbulbemporium.com/maxlite_51204_ml_f40t10_850_rscg.as > > > > > > > > <http://www.lightbulbemporium.com/maxlite_51204_ml_f40t10_850_rscg.as>> > > > > > > > > > p > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > <http://www.lightbulbemporium.com/maxlite_51204_ml_f40t10_850_rscg.a > > > > > > > <http://www.lightbulbemporium.com/maxlite_51204_ml_f40t10_850_rscg.a> > > > > > <http://www.lightbulbemporium.com/maxlite_51204_ml_f40t10_850_rscg.a > > > > > > > <http://www.lightbulbemporium.com/maxlite_51204_ml_f40t10_850_rscg.a>> > > > > > > > > > sp> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > <http://www.lightbulbemporium.com/maxlite_51204_ml_f40t10_850_rscg.a > > > > > > > <http://www.lightbulbemporium.com/maxlite_51204_ml_f40t10_850_rscg.a> > > > > > <http://www.lightbulbemporium.com/maxlite_51204_ml_f40t10_850_rscg.a > > > > > > > <http://www.lightbulbemporium.com/maxlite_51204_ml_f40t10_850_rscg.a>> > > > > > > > > > sp > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > <http://www.lightbulbemporium.com/maxlite_51204_ml_f40t10_850_rscg.a > > > > > > > <http://www.lightbulbemporium.com/maxlite_51204_ml_f40t10_850_rscg.a> > > > > > <http://www.lightbulbemporium.com/maxlite_51204_ml_f40t10_850_rscg.a > > > > > > > <http://www.lightbulbemporium.com/maxlite_51204_ml_f40t10_850_rscg.a>> > > > > > > > > > sp> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > which > > > > > > > > > > has an even > higher > > lumen > > > rating of > > > > > > 3700, > > > > > > > although > > > > > > > > not much higher than > > > > > > > > > > the 3550 > rating > > but > > > every little bit > > > > > > helps > > > > > > > > especially since the > > > > > > > > > > MaxLite bulb > was a > > lower > > > price than > > > > > > the > > > > > > > Sylvania > > > > > > > > bulb. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > As you will > see on > > this > > > page > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > http://www.lightbulbsdirect.com/Merchant2/merchant.mvc?page=001/CTGY > > > > > > > <http://www.lightbulbsdirect.com/Merchant2/merchant.mvc?page=001/CTGY> > > > > > > > > > <http://www.lightbulbsdirect.com/Merchant2/merchant.mvc?page=001/CTGY > > > > > > > > <http://www.lightbulbsdirect.com/Merchant2/merchant.mvc?page=001/CTGY>> > > > > > > > > > /F > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > <http://www.lightbulbsdirect.com/Merchant2/merchant.mvc?page=001/CTG > > > > > > > <http://www.lightbulbsdirect.com/Merchant2/merchant.mvc?page=001/CTG> > > > > > <http://www.lightbulbsdirect.com/Merchant2/merchant.mvc?page=001/CTG > > > > > > > <http://www.lightbulbsdirect.com/Merchant2/merchant.mvc?page=001/CTG>> > > > > > > > > > Y/F> > > > > > > > > > > S+Fluo > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > <http://www.lightbulbsdirect.com/Merchant2/merchant.mvc?page=001/CTG > > > > > > > <http://www.lightbulbsdirect.com/Merchant2/merchant.mvc?page=001/CTG> > > > > > <http://www.lightbulbsdirect.com/Merchant2/merchant.mvc?page=001/CTG > > > > > > > <http://www.lightbulbsdirect.com/Merchant2/merchant.mvc?page=001/CTG>> > > > > > > > > > Y/ > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > <http://www.lightbulbsdirect.com/Merchant2/merchant.mvc?page=001/CTG > > > > > > > <http://www.lightbulbsdirect.com/Merchant2/merchant.mvc?page=001/CTG> > > > > > <http://www.lightbulbsdirect.com/Merchant2/merchant.mvc?page=001/CTG > > > > > > > <http://www.lightbulbsdirect.com/Merchant2/merchant.mvc?page=001/CTG>> > > > > > > > > > Y/> > > > > > > > > > > FS+Fluo> > > > > > > > > > > rescent > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > The second > bulb > > down > > > would be similar > > > > > > to > > > > > > > yours, > > > > > > > > except we do not know > > > > > > > > > > the lumen or > color > > > spectrum rating on > > > > > > your > > > > > > > bulb, > > > > > > > > unless that link I > > > > > > > > > > gave above is > > actually > > > your bulb and > > > > > > then > > > > > > > it > > > > > > > > would be the same as > this > > > > > > > > > > one. The specs > on > > it > > > are: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > T-10 > Fluorescent > > > > > > > > > > 40 Watts > > > > > > > > > > Length: 48" > > > > > > > > > > Medium Bi-Pin > Base > > > > > > > > > > Color: 5000K > > > Temperature > > > > > > > > > > Initial > Lumens: > > 3550 > > > > > > > > > > CRI: 84 > > > > > > > > > > Average Life: > > 20,000 > > > Hours > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > The Color > spectrum > > of > > > 5000K (Kelvin) is > > > > > > OK > > > > > > > but > > > > > > > > 6500K would be much > > > > > > > > > better. > > > > > > > > > > The Lumens of > 3550 > > is > > > the actual amount > > > > > > of > > > > > > > > *light* > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > The next bulb > down > > from > > > that one is a > > > > > > T-12, > > > > > > > which > > > > > > > > will also fit in > > > > > > > > > > your fixture > but > > they > > > are bigger > > > > > > diameter > > > > > > > bulbs > > > > > > > > and this one actually > > > > > > > > > > puts out less > > light > > > (lumens). Here are > > > > > > the > > > > > > > > specs: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > T-12 > Fluorescent > > > > > > > > > > 40 Watts > > > > > > > > > > Length: 48" > > > > > > > > > > Base: Medium > > Bi-Pin > > > Base > > > > > > > > > > Initial > Lumens: > > 2200 > > > > > > > > > > Average Life: > > 20,000 > > > Hours > > > > > > > > > > Color > Temperature: > > > 5000K > > > > > > > > > > CRI: 92 > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > It has the > same > > Color > > > spectrum but > > > > > > only > > > > > > > 2200 > > > > > > > > lumens so the above > T-10 > > > > > > > > > > bulb has > around 50% > > more > > > lumens > > > > > > (light) > > > > > > > coming > > > > > > > > out of it. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Now, if you > scroll > > down > > > to the second > > > > > > from > > > > > > > the > > > > > > > > bottom on the page, > > > > > > > > > > you'll see > the > > Verilux > > > Instant-Sun > > > > > > T-12 > > > > > > > bulb > > > > > > > > which has a higher > Kelvin > > > > > > > > > > rating but it > > doesn't > > > list the lumens > > > > > > so > > > > > > > this > > > > > > > > needs to be checked out > > > > > > > > > > further. While > the > > > higher K rating is > > > > > > good, > > > > > > > if it > > > > > > > > goes back down to > > > > > > > > > > only 2200 > lumens, > > > instead of the 3550 > > > > > > lumens > > > > > > > of > > > > > > > > the first referenced > > > > > > > > > > bulb above, > then I > > would > > > probably go > > > > > > with > > > > > > > the > > > > > > > > 3550 lumens, 5000K bulb > > > > > > > > > > over the 6280K > bulb > > if > > > the lumens were > > > > > > a > > > > > > > LOT > > > > > > > > less. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > (START SNIP) > > > > > > > > > > Engineered to > > reproduce > > > all the colors > > > > > > and > > > > > > > > balance of natural > light, > > > > > > > > > > VeriluxR full > > spectrum > > > fluorescent > > > > > > tubes > > > > > > > feature > > > > > > > > Trucolite Phosphor > > > > > > > > > > TechnologyT > which > > > includes the use of > > > > > > a > > > > > > > stable, > > > > > > > > custom blend of earth > > > > > > > > > > phosphors > that > > create > > > bright, balanced > > > > > > full > > > > > > > > spectrum light. > > > > > > > > > > T-12 > Fluorescent > > > > > > > > > > 40 Watts > > > > > > > > > > Length: 48" > > > > > > > > > > Color > Temperature: > > > 6280K > > > > > > > > > > CRI: 94 > > > > > > > > > > Medium Bi-Pin > Base > > > > > > > > > > (END SNIP) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > So, as you > can > > see, > > > there's a few > > > > > > things to > > > > > > > look > > > > > > > > for when shopping for > > > > > > > > > > new > replacement > > bulbs. > > > Look for the > > > > > > 5000K > > > > > > > to > > > > > > > > 6500K bulbs with the > > > > > > > > > > higher lumen > rating > > for > > > the dollar and > > > > > > you > > > > > > > should > > > > > > > > be good. Note that a > > > > > > > > > > 3550 or 3700 > lumen > > bulb > > > will put out > > > > > > nearly > > > > > > > twice > > > > > > > > as much light as a > > > > > > > > > > 2000 lumen > bulb so > > it > > > can be easy to > > > > > > > increase > > > > > > > > your lighting without > > > > > > > > > > increasing > the > > wattage. > > > DO NOT try to > > > > > > use HO > > > > > > > or > > > > > > > > VHO bulbs... which > > > > > > > > > > look similar > but > > have > > > much higher > > > > > > wattage, > > > > > > > well > > > > > > > > over the 40W bulbs you > > > > > > > > > > now have. > These > > other HO > > > and VHO bulbs > > > > > > have > > > > > > > > different pin > arrangements > > > > > > > > > > so they will > not > > fit in > > > your fixture > > > > > > anyhow > > > > > > > but I > > > > > > > > just wanted to save > > > > > > > > > > you a trip. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Last but not > least, > > if > > > you're handy, > > > > > > you > > > > > > > could > > > > > > > > even take the bulbs out > > > > > > > > > > of your > fixtures > > and > > > line the insides > > > > > > of > > > > > > > your > > > > > > > > fixtures with nice and > > > > > > > > > > crisp and > flat > > aluminum > > > foil (shiny > > > > > > side > > > > > > > exposed) > > > > > > > > which will also > > > > > > > > > > help. Using > double > > stick > > > tape and then > > > > > > > carefully > > > > > > > > applying the foil so > > > > > > > > > > it does not > wrinkle > > too > > > much will work > > > > > > > well... > > > > > > > > especially if the > > > > > > > > > > inside of > your > > fixture > > > is black. A > > > > > > white > > > > > > > > reflector is good but a > > > > > > > > > > mirrored > reflector, > > like > > > that created > > > > > > by > > > > > > > the > > > > > > > > shiny side of foil, is > > > > > > > > > > MUCH better > than a > > black > > > reflector. > > > > > > Most > > > > > > > black > > > > > > > > fixtures do at least > > > > > > > > > > have white > > reflector > > > areas. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Lenny > Vasbinder > > > > > > > > > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > ><br/><br/>(Message over 64 KB, truncated)

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 44469	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 11/12/2009
Subject: Re: wisteria/lighting previous question/response revisited

Can you show me a link to a T-4, 17W bulb? I haven't found a single one in all the reading that I've been doing. Remind me how long your bulbs are again? I scrolled down looking and didn't see an exact answer. In looking at your link to DFS about your fixture, I see that for the 29G/20G, it's 30" long with the 24" bulbs but I wanted to be sure since every site I look at for T-4's, they do not come in 17W or 24" length so I'm still thinking something is wrong with your calculations or the reading of the specs/calcs that you do have. Here are three different sites with their lists of T-4 bulbs and as you can see, there are NO 17W bulbs and no 24" bulbs. http://www.lightbulbsdirect.com/page/001/CTGY/T4 http://www.buylighting.com/T4-Fluorescent-s/102.htm http://www.servicelighting.com/T4-Straight-Linear-Fluorescent-Light-Bulbs The closest that T-4's come are 20.5" or 22-5/16" with only one type/brand having the 22-5/16" bulb as a specialty bulb and all of the other T-4's are 20.5" and then jump up to 33 7/8" or 33.9" depending on the site. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of bill 1433 Sent: Thursday, November 12, 2009 3:27 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: wisteria/lighting previous question/response revisited Hi Len, Like I said, they are a 1/2" but so far all I can find around here are "cool white" and "warm light" bulbs. Bill --- On Thu, 11/12/09, Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@...> wrote: > From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@...> > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: wisteria/lighting previous question/response revisited > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Date: Thursday, November 12, 2009, 3:48 PM > Bulb diameter is easy.  Take the > bulb and place it over a ruler/tape > measurer and look straight down on it.  It should be > easy to discern between > 1/2" (T-4) and 1" (T-8) and the T-5 (5/8") uses a > completely different > single pin on each end so that would eliminate that > bulb.  Or better yet.. > take your bulb to the WalMart and compare apples to apples > and you'll then > know exactly what you have and also be able to see what > your local WalMart > offers as far as better bulbs.  You can probably get > much more lighting with > a new $5.00 to $10.00 bulb. > > Then Santa can still bring you the bigger tank and > accessories and your > other tanks will also be far more functional in case you > choose to sell them > or just have more tanks.  As far as selling your > unused stuff, > CraigsList.org is free and you can renew the ad every week > until you find > the right buyer who is willing to pay the best price you > can get. > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed > on the right > side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives > by Year, Month) > > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] > On > Behalf Of bill 1433 > Sent: Thursday, November 12, 2009 2:27 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: wisteria/lighting previous > question/response > revisited > > Bulb Diameter Len, and now you see my problem.  I > haven't found any either. > Also reading and studying all that you have sent me so far > I come away from > all of this with one single thought, is it worth it?  > > > With all this being said and it so close to the time for a > visit from > "Santa", I'm wondering if I should not put all you have > taught me to better > use by just getting something like a standard 55-gallon > tank!  These lights > do cost a bit but there is not a huge different between > size vs. cost from a > 29 to a 55.  Then to is the issue of what to do with > the plastic covers I > already have should I go to the all glass covers. > > Sell them, sure but to whom?  Remember, I'm the guy > that has a hard time > just trying to find a place to buy fish around here, there > just aren't that > many places or people.  No matter what I do, I promise > to keep you posted. > > Thanks for all you've taught and helped me with, > > Bill > > > --- On Thu, 11/12/09, Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@...> > wrote: > > > From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@...> > > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: wisteria/lighting > previous > question/response revisited > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > Date: Thursday, November 12, 2009, 2:42 PM > > Once again Bill.... you need to get > > away from the "Watts" mindset.  It's > > just not applicable with the wide array of bulbs > available > > nowadays.  That > > link goes to a CFL light strip and 65 watts of CFL > lighting > > is a LOT, LOT, > > LOT (3 LOTS) more lighting than 65 watts of an > incandescent > > bulb and a LOT, > > LOT (2 LOTS) more lighting than a 65W normal > fluorescent > > bulb.  This would > > probably increase your lighting by 10X's over what you > have > > now.  If you > > just went with 20W (range) CFL's, you'd get 2-3X's > more > > light than you > > currently have.  > > > > You still need to do some more research on your > current > > bulbs to find out > > the specs on them.  Without knowing your current > > specs, it's difficult to > > know how much more lighting you might want/need. > > > > Since you got your fixture and bulbs from DFS, I just > did a > > search of '17 > > watt fluorescent' and four bulbs came up.. one was a > CFL so > > that wasn't it > > and the other three are below BUT none of them are > T-4's... > > in fact, so far, > > I have not been able to find a T-4, 17W bulb > > anywhere.  What are you > > measuring to come up with the 1/2" figure?  Bulb > > diameter, pin separation or > > other??? > > > > http://www.drsfostersmith.com/product/prod_display.cfm?pcatid=3787 > > (24", > > T-8, 5500K, nothing for lumens) > > > > http://www.drsfostersmith.com/product/prod_display.cfm?pcatid=4491 > > (24", > > T-8, Actinic 420nm, nothing for lumens) > > > > http://www.drsfostersmith.com/product/prod_display.cfm?pcatid=4489 > > (24", > > T-8, 6500K, nothing for lumens) > > > > You need to take your bulb out and go to a local > lighting > > store (department) > > or even the Walmart and see if they can give you more > info > > on it or at least > > you might find identical sized bulbs that do have > specs on > > them so you can > > be more informed about what you have. > > > > While I was at the DFS site, and since you previously > > mentioned that you > > have an All-Glass hood that came with the one bulb > light > > strip, I did a > > search on DFS for 'All-Glass light' and found this > link for > > the only single > > bulb light strip that All-Glass has on DFS' site. > > > > http://www.drsfostersmith.com/product/prod_display.cfm?pcatid=3793 > > > > It comes in 16" or 20" lengths.  There's a link to > > "View compatible Bulbs" > > in the Description tab, which brings up a page of > bulbs and > > ALL of the ones > > compatible for the 20" strip are T-8 bulbs.  There > are > > a couple of dozen > > bulbs listed so I didn't go through them and > unfortunately, > > they do NOT list > > the wattage on that list so I wasn't able to find any > 17W > > bulbs without > > checking a bunch of links.  Since it was an > All-Glass > > fixture, I did click > > on the first All-Glass brand bulb which brought up > this > > page... > > > > http://www.drsfostersmith.com/product/prod_display.cfm?pcatid=12850 > > > > And you will see that there is either an 18", 15W bulb > or a > > 24", 17W bulb, > > as well as others... and these are the 8000K bulbs > which > > were listed in the > > description on the website link that you posted > earlier > > BUT.. these are ALL > > T-8 bulbs, not T-4's so we're back to that spec issue > > again.  This page does > > call them 8000K Daylight, Full Spectrum bulbs so maybe > they > > are OK but I > > wish that the DFS site would list lumens since that is > a > > critical, > > need-to-know piece of information that is missing.  > As > > seen in my previous > > posts, the same sized bulbs can have a lumen output > that is > > 50% to 100% > > higher than a comparable bulb of the same size... and > that > > makes a HUGE > > difference in lighting. > > > > Once again, take the bulb to your WalMart and compare > > apples to apples and > > find out exactly what size bulb you have and while > there, > > look at other > > identical sized bulbs and look for the highest lumens > in > > the 5000K to 6500K > > range, buy one and bring it home and see if it's a > LOT > > brighter than what > > you now have.  If so, that might do the trick. > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > > (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are > listed > > on the right > > side, alphabetically under Labels and also under > Archives > > by Year, Month) > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] > > On > > Behalf Of bill 1433 > > Sent: Thursday, November 12, 2009 12:12 PM > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: wisteria/lighting > previous > > question/response > > revisited > > > > Hi Amber, > > > > The links Len provided are very close BUT it's the > ends of > > the tube or pins > > that worry me.  They are very close but "how"? > > > > Meaning this buying the tube, ok by mail?  Now what > if > > it doesn't work? > > Rreturn a $10.00 tube the postage would cost more.  > > I'm trying to work > > backward now from Len's link, and get a manufacture so > I > > can buy around > > here.  Also I'm getting made enough now to scrape > the > > whole thing and just > > get a new All-Glass cover then maybe one of these: > > > > > > > http://www.drsfostersmith.com/product/prod_display.cfm?c=3578+3733+9654+9871 > > &pcatid=9871 > > > > This link is not pointing to the exact Coralife > product I > > want at Doctors > > its # apn-16981, if you have their catalog but I can't > make > > it come up on > > search at their site.  It is a single rated at 65 > > watts and is 24". > > > > Bill > > --- On Thu, 11/12/09, Amber Berglund <arberglund@...> > > wrote: > > > > > From: Amber Berglund <arberglund@...> > > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: wisteria/lighting > > previous > > question/response revisited > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > > Date: Thursday, November 12, 2009, 12:59 PM > > > Bill does have T-4's if I remember > > > correctly, maybe one of those 20watt > > > bulbs will work for him and provide more lumens > than > > his > > > current bulbs do. > > > Did you check those links out Bill? ;) > > > > > > Amber > > > > > > Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > > > > > > > > Just because a fixture currently has a T-8 > or > > T-10, > > > does not mean it > > > > cannot > > > > use a T-12, and vice versa. They are all > medium > > bi-pin > > > bulbs, meaning they > > > > all will fit and work UNLESS the reflector > is so > > tight > > > that a T-12 cannot > > > > fit inside the fixture but I haven't seen > this as > > a > > > problem in the past. > > > > Usually, going with a T-8 or T-10, instead > of a > > T-12 > > > will give more lumens > > > > but in the case of this particular sized > bulb, > > the > > > T-12 may be the better > > > > option. Of course, we still need more > details on > > > Bill's exact bulb. We > > > > still do not know anything except that it's > 17 > > > watts... nothing about > > > > lumens, K rating or anything else for > comparison > > > purposes. As Johnny 5 > > > > once > > > > said... "Need more input!" (I have no clue > why > > that > > > OLD movie line popped > > > > into my head and I can't blame it on drugs > since > > I > > > didn't/don't do them... > > > > and as far as I know, beer doesn't cause > acid > > > flashbacks. LOL > > > > http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Short_Circuit > > > > <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Short_Circuit>) > > > > > > > > Now... thinking back a little. Bill may > have > > T-4's and > > > if he does, those > > > > use the miniature bi-pin base and the above > > larger > > > T-#'s with medium > > > > bi-pin > > > > base would not work. If this is the case, > there > > are > > > other options > > > > listed on > > > > this page... > > > > > > http://www.servicelighting.com/T4-Straight-Linear-Fluorescent-Light-Bulbs > > > > > > > > > > <http://www.servicelighting.com/T4-Straight-Linear-Fluorescent-Light-Bulbs> > > > > including this 20W, 6400K, 1340 Lumens bulb > - > > > > > > > http://www.servicelighting.com/Bulbrite-85220-F20T4-64K-F20T4-D-T4-Straight- > > > > > > > > > > <http://www.servicelighting.com/Bulbrite-85220-F20T4-64K-F20T4-D-T4-Straight > > -> > > > > Linear-Fluorescent-Light-Bulb, which sounds > like > > a > > > pretty good bulb > > > > from the > > > > specs and actually provides more lumens than > any > > of > > > the T-12's previously > > > > listed. > > > > > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > > (Links to any articles referenced in above > reply > > are > > > listed on the right > > > > side, alphabetically under Labels and also > under > > > Archives by Year, Month) > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On > > > > Behalf Of Amber Berglund > > > > Sent: Thursday, November 12, 2009 10:29 AM > > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: > wisteria/lighting > > > previous > > > > question/response > > > > revisited > > > > > > > > Bill has smaller bulbs, I think they are not > easy > > to > > > find in a higher > > > > wattage output, which is what he was looking > for > > a few > > > months back. > > > > > > > > Amber > > > > > > > > Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > > > > > > > > > > I don't know what you mean by this. > Please > > > elaborate. What size tube? > > > > > I posted about several different bulbs > but > > all > > > were T-12's, which is > > > > > one of the most common sizes. > > > > > > > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > > > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>> > > > > (Links to any articles referenced in > > > > > above reply are listed on the right > side, > > > alphabetically under Labels > > > > > and also under Archives by Year, > Month) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On > > > Behalf Of bill 1433 > > > > > Sent: Thursday, November 12, 2009 8:59 > AM > > > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: > > wisteria/lighting > > > previous > > > > > question/response revisited > > > > > > > > > > Yes Len, > > > > > > > > > > But its finding that size tube with > more of > > > anything that's the problem. > > > > > > > > > > Bill > > > > > > > > > > --- On Wed, 11/11/09, Lenny V. aka > > GoldLenny > > > <GoldLenny@... > > > > > > > <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com> > > > > > > <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com>> > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny > <GoldLenny@... > > > > > > > <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com> > > > > > > <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com>> > > > > > > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: > > > wisteria/lighting previous > > > > > > question/response revisited > > > > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > Date: Wednesday, November 11, > 2009, > > 5:22 PM > > > Well, if you only have > > > > > > 17W, then you could definitely do > > better > > > with the 20W, higher lumen, > > > > > > better K rating bulbs that I > > mentioned. > > > Considering the lumen > > > > > > ratings of fluorescent bulbs I've > > looked at, > > > your 17W bulbs might > > > > > > only have 500-700 lumens where the > BEST > > 20W > > > bulb (below) has > > > > > > 1075 lumens so you > > > > > > could possibly increase your > lighting > > by 50% > > > to 100% just by > > > > > > changing to that bulb. At least, > with > > that > > > bulb, you'll be in the > > > > > > low-light range for plants on the > 20G > > but > > > the 29G will need some work. > > > > > > > > > > > > Of course, you should find out > what > > the > > > lumens and K ratings are on > > > > > > the bulbs you have so you'll know > if > > you are > > > getting a small jump or > > > > > > a BIG jump in lighting just by > changing > > your > > > bulbs. Check your local > > > > > > WalMart for bulbs. My nearby > WalMart > > > SuperCenter has a really big > > > > > > assortment of fluorescent tubes > and > > they > > > were cheaper than the Home > > > > > > Depot. > > > > > > > > > > > > Something else I'm thinking about > for > > you is > > > going with 18" > > > > > > light-sticks on > > > > > > each end of your 29G tank or front > or > > back > > > (back would hide it best > > > > > > but you decide your best > aesthetics) > > and > > > you'd have to make a DIY > > > > > > reflector for it (white poster > board > > and > > > scotch tape would work) and > > > > > > that would get more lighting down > to > > the > > > bottom level plants in the > > > > > > 29G. > > > > > > > > > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > > > > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>> > > > > (Links to any articles > > > > > > referenced in above reply are > listed on > > the > > > right side, > > > > > > alphabetically under Labels and > also > > under > > > Archives by Year, Month) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > > > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] > > > > > > On > > > > > > Behalf Of bill 1433 > > > > > > Sent: Wednesday, November 11, 2009 > 3:42 > > PM > > > > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: > > > wisteria/lighting previous > > > > > > question/response revisited > > > > > > > > > > > > It is what it is type of thing > Len. > > Site > > > says one thing but stamped > > > > > > or printed right on the tube is at > 17 > > > watts. > > > > > > > > > > > > Bill > > > > > > > > > > > > --- On Wed, 11/11/09, Lenny V. > aka > > GoldLenny > > > <GoldLenny@... > > > > > > > <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com> > > > > > > <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com>> > > > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny > > <GoldLenny@... > > > > > > > <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com> > > > > > > <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com>> > > > > > > > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] > Re: > > > wisteria/lighting > > > > > > previous > > > > > > > question/response revisited > > > > > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > Date: Wednesday, November > 11, > > 2009, > > > 2:16 PM The > > > > > > problem might be this > > > > > > > statement in the > description... > > > > > > > > > > > > > > "... Hoods include 8000ºK > > bulb... > > > ...20W, 24"..." > > > > > > > > > > > > > > That's getting into the > higher > > > green/blue Kelvin > > > > > > range... > > > > > > > closer to the > > > > > > > 10,000K actinic type bulbs... > than > > the > > > 5000K to 6500K > > > > > > "Daylight" bulbs > > > > > > > that provide full spectrum > > lighting. > > > It's also only > > > > > > a 20W bulb > > > > > > > (according to the DFS site, > > although > > > you stated it was > > > > > > only 17W so > > > > > > > double check this) so it's > only > > 1WPG on > > > the 20G and > > > > > > only 0.69WPG on > > > > > > > the 29G. Of course, if the > bulb > > puts > > > out a LOT more > > > > > > lumens (you would > > > > > > > have to do more checking up > on the > > bulb > > > to find this), > > > > > > that would help > > > > > > > a little but not much. I > think you > > need > > > at least > > > > > > 1WPG to have success > > > > > > > with low-light plants, > although > > > floating plants like > > > > > > Anacharis, > > > > > > > Hornwort, Duckweed, etc., > would be > > up > > > close to the > > > > > > light and benefit > > > > > > > from CO2 from the air and > would do > > OK > > > with your > > > > > > lighting... but then > > > > > > > they would also block out > the > > lighting > > > to the rest of > > > > > > the tank. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I don't see a lot of options, > as > > far as > > > T-8 bulbs are > > > > > > concerned for > > > > > > > this size fixture but I see a > few > > > different T-12's... > > > > > > such as... > > > > > > > > > > > > > > (My rating is: GOOD - but > see > > BETTER > > > and BEST options > > > > > > below... at > > > > > > > least as far as the bulbs on > this > > site > > > are concerned) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > http://www.servicelighting.com/Sylvania-22119-F20T12-DSGN50-T12-Straig > > > > > > > > <http://www.servicelighting.com/Sylvania-22119-F20T12-DSGN50-T12-Straig> > > > > > > > > > <http://www.servicelighting.com/Sylvania-22119-F20T12-DSGN50-T12-Strai > > > > > > > > <http://www.servicelighting.com/Sylvania-22119-F20T12-DSGN50-T12-Strai> > > > > > g> > > > > > > > ht-Lin > > > > > > > ear-Fluorescent-Light-Bulb > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Light Output: 880 lumens > > > > > > > Refers to the literal measure > of > > the > > > light-output of a > > > > > > particular > > > > > > > light bulb, measured in the > number > > of > > > lumens. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Energy Used: 20 watts > > > > > > > "Watts" is the term applied > to > > the > > > amount of energy > > > > > > required and used > > > > > > > by a particular light bulb. > It is > > an > > > international > > > > > > system unit of > > > > > > > power equal to one joule per > > second. > > > Contrary to > > > > > > popular belief, the > > > > > > > wattage of a bulb does not > > directly > > > measure the > > > > > > brightness; the > > > > > > > "lumens" of a light is what > > defines the > > > actual light > > > > > > output. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Average Lifetime: 9,000 > hours > > > > > > > This refers to an average > > lifetime > > > rating based on > > > > > > large quantities in > > > > > > > test groups. This testing > takes > > into > > > account usage of > > > > > > 3 hours per > > > > > > > start for fluorescent lamps > and > > 10 > > > hours per start for > > > > > > HID lamps. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Bulb Type: T12 > > > > > > > The "Bulb Type" is typically > a > > > combination of the > > > > > > style of bulb as > > > > > > > well as the width of the > bulb. > > Usually, > > > the first > > > > > > couple letters will > > > > > > > indicate the type; "G" would > > indicate > > > "Globe", "PAR" > > > > > > would indicate > > > > > > > "Parabolic Reflector"... The > > numbers > > > indicate the > > > > > > diameter of the > > > > > > > light bulb in eighths of an > inch; > > a > > > "G40" would be a > > > > > > "Globe" style > > > > > > > that is "5 inches" in > diameter. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Base Type: Medium Bi-Pin > > > > > > > The "Base" of a light bulb is > the > > part > > > that either > > > > > > screws or snaps > > > > > > > into a receptacle. Base Type > > > terminology may indicate > > > > > > common > > > > > > > descriptive words like > "Medium" > > or > > > "Candelabra", or > > > > > > may even contain > > > > > > > numeric codes that signify > size > > and > > > variety, like > > > > > > "E26" or "2GX13". > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Color Temperature: 5,000K > > > > > > > Correlated Color Temperature > (CCT) > > is a > > > specification > > > > > > of the color > > > > > > > appearance of a lamp, > relating > > its > > > color to that of a > > > > > > reference source > > > > > > > heated to a particular > > temperature, > > > measured in > > > > > > degrees Kelvin (K). It > > > > > > > generally measures the > "warmth" > > or > > > "coolness" of light > > > > > > source > > > > > > > appearance. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > CRI: 90 > > > > > > > CRI refers to the "Color > > Rendering > > > Index" of a light > > > > > > bulb. > > > > > > > CRI measures a > > > > > > > light source and grades its > > ability to > > > render the > > > > > > color of objects > > > > > > > "correctly," as compared with > a > > > reference source with > > > > > > comparable color > > > > > > > temperature. 100 is perfect > > rendering. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Length: 24 inches > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > (BETTER - slightly higher > lumens > > and > > > higher 6500K > > > > > > rating) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > http://www.servicelighting.com/Westinghouse-36516-F20T12-FS-T12-Straig > > > > > > > > <http://www.servicelighting.com/Westinghouse-36516-F20T12-FS-T12-Straig> > > > > > > > > > <http://www.servicelighting.com/Westinghouse-36516-F20T12-FS-T12-Strai > > > > > > > > <http://www.servicelighting.com/Westinghouse-36516-F20T12-FS-T12-Strai> > > > > > g> > > > > > > > ht-Lin > > > > > > > ear-Fluorescent-Light-Bulb > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Light Output: 900 lumens > > > > > > > Energy Used: 20 watts > > > > > > > Average Lifetime: 10,000 > hours > > > > > > > Bulb Type: T12 > > > > > > > Base Type: Medium Bi-Pin > > > > > > > Color Temperature: 6,500K > > > > > > > CRI: 90 > > > > > > > Length: 24 inches > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > (BEST, of these three - > around > > 20% > > > higher lumens and > > > > > > good 6,500K > > > > > > > rating, although it does have > a > > lower > > > CRI rating.. but > > > > > > still > > > > > > > passing) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > http://www.servicelighting.com/Sylvania-22083-F20T12-D-T12-Straight-Li > > > > > > > > <http://www.servicelighting.com/Sylvania-22083-F20T12-D-T12-Straight-Li> > > > > > > > > > <http://www.servicelighting.com/Sylvania-22083-F20T12-D-T12-Straight-L > > > > > > > > <http://www.servicelighting.com/Sylvania-22083-F20T12-D-T12-Straight-L> > > > > > i> > > > > > > > near-F > > > > > > > luorescent-Light-Bulb > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Light Output: 1,075 lumens > > > > > > > Energy Used: 20 watts > > > > > > > Average Lifetime: 9,000 > hours > > > > > > > Bulb Type: T12 > > > > > > > Base Type: Medium Bi-Pin > > > > > > > Color Temperature: 6,500K > > > > > > > CRI: 76 > > > > > > > Length: 24 inches > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Compare the above three to > what is > > sold > > > as a > > > > > > plant/aquarium light by > > > > > > > the same company, which has > a > > lower > > > lumens, MUCH lower > > > > > > CRI rating and > > > > > > > does not list the K rating > other > > than > > > to say "Plant" > > > > > > which is a > > > > > > > subjective rating established > by > > the > > > manufacturer. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > (WORST) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > http://www.servicelighting.com/Westinghouse-36411-F20T12-PL-T12-Straig > > > > > > > > <http://www.servicelighting.com/Westinghouse-36411-F20T12-PL-T12-Straig> > > > > > > > > > <http://www.servicelighting.com/Westinghouse-36411-F20T12-PL-T12-Strai > > > > > > > > <http://www.servicelighting.com/Westinghouse-36411-F20T12-PL-T12-Strai> > > > > > g> > > > > > > > ht-Lin > > > > > > > ear-Fluorescent-Light-Bulb > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Light Output: 700 lumens > (over 30% > > less > > > lighting > > > > > > than the 1,075 > > > > > > > lumens bulb > > > > > > > above) > > > > > > > Energy Used: 20 watts > > > > > > > Average Lifetime: 10,000 > hours > > > > > > > Bulb Type: T12 > > > > > > > Base Type: Medium Bi-Pin > > > > > > > Color: Plant > > > > > > > CRI: 61 > > > > > > > Length: 24 inches > > > > > > > > > > > > > > If any of the above have > much > > better > > > lumens than your > > > > > > current > > > > > > > lighting... > > > > > > > and they all have better K > > ratings, > > > then any of them > > > > > > would be better > > > > > > > for you... but you would > still be > > stuck > > > with only 20 > > > > > > watts but it's > > > > > > > the LUMENS and K rating that > count > > more > > > than watts. > > > > > > You need to find > > > > > > > out the lumens on your bulb. > Try > > to > > > find it on the > > > > > > DFS site and let > > > > > > > us know. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > You should look at the > > AHSupply.com > > > place for a > > > > > > retrofit kit so you > > > > > > > can use CFL's in your > current > > hood. > > > That would > > > > > > probably be your least > > > > > > > expensive option. I know you > don't > > like > > > electricity > > > > > > but I'm sure you > > > > > > > know someone that could do > this > > for > > > you... on the > > > > > > cheap... or over a > > > > > > > 6-pack. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > > > > > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>> > > > > (Links to > > > > > > any articles > > > > > > > referenced in above reply > are > > listed on > > > the right > > > > > > side, alphabetically > > > > > > > under Labels and also under > > Archives by > > > Year, Month) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > > > > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] > > > > > > > On > > > > > > > Behalf Of bill 1433 > > > > > > > Sent: Wednesday, November 11, > 2009 > > 9:33 > > > AM > > > > > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] > Re: > > > wisteria/lighting > > > > > > previous > > > > > > > question/response > > > > > > > revisited > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Hi \\Steve// > > > > > > > > > > > > > > At this point, and also to > refresh > > your > > > mind, and > > > > > > anyone > > > > > > > else on the group > > > > > > > that may have interest. This > all > > got > > > started with > > > > > > my > > > > > > > search for a tube that > > > > > > > would allow me more light > output > > from > > > an All Glass > > > > > > Plastic > > > > > > > hood and light. > > > > > > > This unit comes with a "color > type > > tube > > > at 17 watts > > > > > > that is > > > > > > > only 24 inches > > > > > > > long. This is for a > 20/29-gallon > > tank. > > > I was stupid enough to buy > > > > > > > two of them, one for each > tank. > > For > > > further inspection > > > > > > here > > > > > > > is the light: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > http://www.drsfostersmith.com/product/prod_display.cfm?pcatid=13447 > > > > > > > <http://www.drsfostersmith.com/product/prod_display.cfm?pcatid=13447> > > > > > <http://www.drsfostersmith.com/product/prod_display.cfm?pcatid=13447 > > > > > > > <http://www.drsfostersmith.com/product/prod_display.cfm?pcatid=13447>> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > For those that would like to > > aggravate > > > themselves > > > > > > further, > > > > > > > I can also state > > > > > > > that these hoods are very > > conducive to > > > growing Black Algae! > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Summoning up, I should have > only > > > purchased an > > > > > > All-Glass > > > > > > > cover and then > > > > > > > probably a double tube light > of > > > sufficient wattage to > > > > > > bring > > > > > > > me up to the > > > > > > > recommended 2 or 3 watts per > > gallon. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Ya live and learn, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Bill > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > --- On Tue, 11/10/09, Steve > Szabo > > > <steve@... > > > > > > > <mailto:steve%40familyszabo.com> > > > > > > <mailto:steve%40familyszabo.com>> > > > > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > From: Steve Szabo <steve@... > > > > > > > <mailto:steve%40familyszabo.com> > > > > > > <mailto:steve%40familyszabo.com>> > > > > > > > > Subject: RE: > [AquaticLife] > > Re: > > > wisteria/lighting > > > > > > > previous > > > > > > > > question/response > revisited > > > > > > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > > Date: Tuesday, November > 10, > > 2009, > > > 11:50 PM Bill, > > > > > > you > > > > > > > got it right! The > > > > > > > > T numbers represent the > > diameter > > > of the bulb in > > > > > > 1/8" > > > > > > > increments. A T4 > > > > > > > > is a bulb 1/2" in > diameter, > > T5 is > > > 5/8", t8 is > > > > > > 1" and > > > > > > > a t12 is 1 1/2". > > > > > > > > As I recall, the F is > the > > wattage > > > of the bulb. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Lumens, not usually > stated on > > the > > > bulb is the > > > > > > actual > > > > > > > amount of light > > > > > > > > coming from the bulb. > It > > really > > > does not have > > > > > > anything > > > > > > > to do with > > > > > > > > watts, though more watts > will > > give > > > you more > > > > > > lumens, > > > > > > > but, also the > > > > > > > > phosphors used in the > bulb > > affect > > > the amount of > > > > > > lumen > > > > > > > output. Lumens > > > > > > > > and lux are often used > > > interchangeably, but they > > > > > > are > > > > > > > really different > > > > > > > > measurements. Lux is > the > > measure > > > of illumination > > > > > > over > > > > > > > a given area. It > > > > > > > > may actually be more > > important to > > > aquarists > > > > > > raising > > > > > > > plants than the > > > > > > > > lumen output. Lux is > what is > > > measured by a light > > > > > > > meter, for anyone who > > > > > > > > happens to know what > they > > are--not > > > often seen > > > > > > with > > > > > > > today's cameras and > > > > > > > > photographers. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Color temperature is > > important. > > > Average daylight > > > > > > > (except may in > > > > > > > > Amber's area where they > have > > 6 > > > months of > > > > > > darkness) has > > > > > > > a color > > > > > > > > temperature of > 5500-6000. > > > > > > > > An overcast day can have > a > > color > > > temperature of > > > > > > 6500. > > > > > > > As mentioned > > > > > > > > earlier, plants need > light in > > two > > > color > > > > > > spectrums, > > > > > > > and, actually they > > > > > > > > are rather narrow spans > of > > > wavelengths they > > > > > > benefit > > > > > > > from. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I thought I had a > bookmark > > > explaining this, but > > > > > > I > > > > > > > can't find it > > > > > > > > quickly (over 400K of > > bookmarks, > > > and things have > > > > > > a > > > > > > > tendency to get > > > > > > > > lost), however, some > > judicial > > > Googling will gain > > > > > > you > > > > > > > the information. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > \\Steve// > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -----Original > Message----- > > > > > > > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] > > > > > > > > On > > > > > > > > Behalf Of bill 1433 > > > > > > > > Sent: Tuesday, November > 10, > > 2009 > > > 10:20 PM > > > > > > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > > Subject: Re: > [AquaticLife] > > Re: > > > wisteria/lighting > > > > > > > previous > > > > > > > > question/response > revisited > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Yes, Amber > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > It was I, looking for > the > > original > > > information > > > > > > and > > > > > > > also looked back on > > > > > > > > \\Steve//'s post at > group to > > try > > > and find. Ray > > > > > > had > > > > > > > mentioned all this > > > > > > > > the other day saying > that he > > > thought the posting > > > > > > came > > > > > > > from \\Steve//. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I was not successful in > my > > search. > > > Also, for me > > > > > > the > > > > > > > most important > > > > > > > > part was a link to a > chart > > which > > > showed you > > > > > > exactly, > > > > > > > or explained > > > > > > > > exactly the "T" > > > > > > > > factor stands for. For > > instance, > > > T-4 would be a > > > > > > tube > > > > > > > that is a half > > > > > > > > inch wide, or close to > > > it-----------I think. > > > > > > All > > > > > > > this is my own > > > > > > > > fault. In my interest > to > > acquire > > > and learn > > > > > > about > > > > > > > lighting,I went > > > > > > > > through and studied the > > applied > > > links but being > > > > > > > ol'bill, I never > > > > > > > > bookmarked them. > > > > > > > > Then to further > > > > > > > > compound the problem, I > > deleted > > > the original > > > > > > message > > > > > > > that it came > > > > > > > > from. In hind-sight you > > could > > > probably chalk > > > > > > this > > > > > > > all up to felonious > > > > > > > > stupidity on my part. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Bill---where its always > a > > good day > > > if I learn > > > > > > > something new! > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > --- On Tue, 11/10/09, > Amber > > > Berglund <arberglund@... > > > > > > > <mailto:arberglund%40gmail.com> > > > > > > <mailto:arberglund%40gmail.com>> > > > > > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > From: Amber Berglund > <arberglund@... > > > > > > > <mailto:arberglund%40gmail.com> > > > > > > <mailto:arberglund%40gmail.com>> > > > > > > > > Subject: Re: > [AquaticLife] > > Re: > > > wisteria/lighting > > > > > > > previous > > > > > > > > question/response > revisited > > > > > > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > > Date: Tuesday, November > 10, > > 2009, > > > 9:30 PM > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I believe it was Steve > who > > posted > > > a link about > > > > > > lumens > > > > > > > months back when > > > > > > > > (I think it was maybe > Bill > > asking) > > > about lighting > > > > > > for > > > > > > > planted > > > > > > > > aquariums. > > > > > > > > Plants require 2 > different > > > spectrums of light to > > > > > > > properly produce > > > > > > > > either leaves or flowers > (red > > is > > > more for flower > > > > > > > production and blue > > > > > > > > is more for growth, but > for > > the > > > best growing you > > > > > > want > > > > > > > a mixture of > > > > > > > > BOTH colors). > > > > > > > > So in reality you would > want > > a > > > light that appears > > > > > > more > > > > > > > brown/reddish > > > > > > > > in coloring and a > blue/white > > > coloring as well, > > > > > > but > > > > > > > they now have bulbs > > > > > > > > that have BOTH > spectrums > > built in > > > (I'm sure they > > > > > > don't > > > > > > > work as well as > > > > > > > > it would to have 2 > different > > bulbs > > > one mostly red > > > > > > and > > > > > > > the other mostly > > > > > > > > blue on the color > spectrum). > > > > > > > > Let me see if I still > have > > the > > > link bookmarked. > > > > > > > > What I was trying to say > is > > that > > > Kelvin does not > > > > > > tell > > > > > > > you what color > > > > > > > > spectrum the light > REALLY is, > > it's > > > actually > > > > > > measuring > > > > > > > it's light > > > > > > > > output color according > to how > > the > > > human eyes > > > > > > perceive > > > > > > > it. So 6500 > > > > > > > > kelvin in general is > what > > most > > > plants will > > > > > > prefer > > > > > > > because that is a > > > > > > > > mixture of both red and > blue > > > spectrums (In MOST > > > > > > bulbs) > > > > > > > unfortunately > > > > > > > > not all light bulb > > manufactures > > > have to use the > > > > > > exact > > > > > > > same chart for > > > > > > > > their colors, so they > will > > have > > > different colors > > > > > > than > > > > > > > another bulb > > > > > > > > that says it's 6500 > Kelvin. > > what > > > you really need > > > > > > to > > > > > > > read is the color > > > > > > > > chart on the box, not > what > > lumens > > > it says it is. > > > > > > > > (still searching for > link, > > LOL). > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > This isn't the right > link but > > it > > > discusses the > > > > > > > kelvin/lumen problems a > > > > > > > > little bit, still > looking for > > the > > > link that > > > > > > showed the > > > > > > > charts and what > > > > > > > > to look for in the > color > > charts. > > > > > > > > http://www.americanaquariumproducts.com/Aquarium_Lighting.html > > > > > > > <http://www.americanaquariumproducts.com/Aquarium_Lighting.html> > > > > > <http://www.americanaquariumproducts.com/Aquarium_Lighting.html > > > > > > > <http://www.americanaquariumproducts.com/Aquarium_Lighting.html>> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Will post again when I > find > > the > > > other link with > > > > > > chart > > > > > > > examples. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Amber > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Lenny V. aka GoldLenny > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I think it would > be > > false > > > advertising or > > > > > > > possibly > > > > > > > > mis-advertising (if > they > > > > > > > > > do not know any > better) > > if a > > > company lists > > > > > > their > > > > > > > bulbs > > > > > > > > as 6500K and they > > > > > > > > > aren't. The Kelvin > > scale, > > > just like Watts > > > > > > and > > > > > > > Lumens, > > > > > > > > are ALL > > > > > > > > > universal and > > > > > > > > > scientifically > > measurable > > > scales BUT, as I > > > > > > > showed > > > > > > > > below, not all 40 watt > > > > > > > > > bulbs put out the > same > > amount > > > of light > > > > > > (lumens) > > > > > > > or in > > > > > > > > the same color > > > > > > > > > spectrum (Kelvin > > rating). All > > > 40 watt > > > > > > bulbs, > > > > > > > whether > > > > > > > > incandescent, > > > > > > > > > fluorescent, CFL, > LED, > > > Halogen, etc.... ALL > > > > > > use > > > > > > > > only/around 40 watts of > > > > > > > > > electricity but > their > > light > > > output can vary > > > > > > > > dramatically. This is > why > > > > > > > > > fluorescent bulbs > are so > > much > > > more > > > > > > efficient > > > > > > > than > > > > > > > > incandescent bulbs and > > > > > > > > > CFL's are even > more > > > efficient... as a 40W > > > > > > > fluorescent > > > > > > > > bulb puts out a LOT > > > > > > > > > more light (lumens) > than > > a 40 > > > watt > > > > > > incandescent > > > > > > > bulb > > > > > > > > and a 40W CFL > > > > > > > > > puts out > > > > > > > > > more light (lumens) > than > > a > > > 40W fluorescent > > > > > > bulb. > > > > > > > This > > > > > > > > is why the OLD > > > > > > > > > "Watts > > > > > > > > > Per Gallon" rule > simply > > does > > > not work any > > > > > > more. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > BUT.. if three > > different > > > companies are > > > > > > selling > > > > > > > > standard T-10 > fluorescent > > > > > > > > > bulbs with the > same > > exact > > > rating of 40W, > > > > > > 3550 > > > > > > > lumens > > > > > > > > and 6500K > > > > > > > > > rating... all > > > > > > > > > three of those > bulbs > > should > > > be VERY SIMILAR > > > > > > if > > > > > > > not > > > > > > > > identical in the > > > > > > > > > way they > > > > > > > > > appear to our eyes > > (subject > > > to our own > > > > > > degree of > > > > > > > color > > > > > > > > blindness, of > > > > > > > > > course!) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > In the past, > things > > like > > > "soft white", > > > > > > "warm > > > > > > > white", > > > > > > > > "daylight", "plant > > > > > > > > > grow", etc., type > terms > > were > > > used and are > > > > > > still > > > > > > > used > > > > > > > > but those are just > > > > > > > > > simple words (not > > subject to > > > a scientific > > > > > > scale) > > > > > > > to > > > > > > > > describe the Kelvin > > > > > > > > > rating ranges but > lumens > > are > > > just as > > > > > > important > > > > > > > since a > > > > > > > > bulb could have a > > > > > > > > > 6500K rating with > only > > 2200 > > > lumens where > > > > > > another > > > > > > > bulb > > > > > > > > could have a 6500K > > > > > > > > > rating and 3550 or > 3700 > > > lumens and that > > > > > > bulb > > > > > > > would put > > > > > > > > out over 50% more > > > > > > > > > light (lumens) in > the > > same > > > color spectrum > > > > > > > (Kelvin > > > > > > > > rating) so it would be > a > > > > > > > > > much more cost > effective > > bulb > > > if it cost > > > > > > the > > > > > > > same > > > > > > > > amount or only a little > > > > > > > > > more. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I'm slightly > confused > > about > > > the "red and > > > > > > blue > > > > > > > light > > > > > > > > for your plants" as > > > > > > > > > those two colors > are on > > > opposite ends of > > > > > > the > > > > > > > Kelvin > > > > > > > > Scale with reds and > > > > > > > > > ambers in the > lower > > numbers > > > and greens and > > > > > > blues > > > > > > > in > > > > > > > > the higher numbers. I > > > > > > > > > think this is why > you > > would > > > want a > > > > > > mid-range > > > > > > > (5000K to > > > > > > > > 6500K) bulb as > > > > > > > > > those > > > > > > > > > are generally > > considered > > > "full spectrum" or > > > > > > > "daylight" > > > > > > > > bulbs. Here's a > > > > > > > > > color picture of > the > > Kelvin > > > Scale, > > > > > > > > > http://www.bltdirect.com/images/colour-temperature.jpg > > > > > > > <http://www.bltdirect.com/images/colour-temperature.jpg> > > > > > <http://www.bltdirect.com/images/colour-temperature.jpg > > > > > > > <http://www.bltdirect.com/images/colour-temperature.jpg>> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > <http://www.bltdirect.com/images/colour-temperature.jpg > > > > > > > <http://www.bltdirect.com/images/colour-temperature.jpg> > > > > > <http://www.bltdirect.com/images/colour-temperature.jpg > > > > > > > <http://www.bltdirect.com/images/colour-temperature.jpg>>> > > > > > > > > and you can > > > > > > > > > visually > > > > > > > > > see that the 5000K > to > > 6500K > > > range is all > > > > > > about > > > > > > > the > > > > > > > > same "color". I think > > > > > > > > > this is also why > > Actinic > > > bulbs are usually > > > > > > higher > > > > > > > and > > > > > > > > closer to the 10000K > > > > > > > > > range and up... > > apparently, > > > the Kelvin > > > > > > lighting > > > > > > > scale > > > > > > > > can go up to 20,000K > > > > > > > > > (according to this > > article > > > about Reef Tanks > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > http://nh.craigslist.org/for/1423072406.html > > > > <http://nh.craigslist.org/for/1423072406.html> > > > > > <http://nh.craigslist.org/for/1423072406.html > > > > <http://nh.craigslist.org/for/1423072406.html>> > > > > > > > > > <http://nh.craigslist.org/for/1423072406.html > > > > <http://nh.craigslist.org/for/1423072406.html> > > > > > <http://nh.craigslist.org/for/1423072406.html > > > > <http://nh.craigslist.org/for/1423072406.html>>> > > > on, > > > > > > > of > > > > > > > > all places, > > > > > > > > > Craigslist). > > > > > > > > > Here is the page > that > > that > > > the above photo > > > > > > link > > > > > > > came > > > > > > > > from and it has a > > > > > > > > > chart > > > > > > > > > that also explains > > things a > > > little more also > > > > > > and > > > > > > > talks > > > > > > > > about the CRI, yet > > > > > > > > > another lighting > term > > (Color > > > Rendition > > > > > > Index). > > > > > > > > > http://www.bltdirect.com/lampColourTemperatures.php > > > > <http://www.bltdirect.com/lampColourTemperatures.php> > > > > > <http://www.bltdirect.com/lampColourTemperatures.php > > > > <http://www.bltdirect.com/lampColourTemperatures.php>> > > > > > > > > > <http://www.bltdirect.com/lampColourTemperatures.php > > > > <http://www.bltdirect.com/lampColourTemperatures.php> > > > > > <http://www.bltdirect.com/lampColourTemperatures.php > > > > <http://www.bltdirect.com/lampColourTemperatures.php>>> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > > > > > > > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>> > > > > > > > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>>> > > (Links > > > > > > > to any articles referenced > in > > > > > > > > > above reply are > > > > > > > > listed on the right > > > > > > > > > side, > alphabetically > > under > > > Labels and also > > > > > > under > > > > > > > > Archives by Year, > Month) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -----Original > > Message----- > > > > > > > > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > > > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On > > > > > > > Behalf Of Amber Berglund > > > > > > > > > Sent: Tuesday, > November > > 10, > > > 2009 4:22 PM > > > > > > > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > > > Subject: Re: > > [AquaticLife] > > > Re: > > > > > > wisteria/lighting > > > > > > > > previous > > > > > > > > > question/response > > > > > > > > > revisited > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Another thing to > > consider is > > > one light > > > > > > company's > > > > > > > 6500 > > > > > > > > kelvin rating > > > > > > > > > may not > > > > > > > > > be identical to > another > > light > > > bulb from a > > > > > > > different > > > > > > > > company that's > > > > > > > > > rated the > > > > > > > > > same. The > important > > thing to > > > look at is the > > > > > > > color > > > > > > > > chart they show on the > > > > > > > > > boxes, you want > more red > > and > > > blue light for > > > > > > your > > > > > > > > plants, green is not > > > > > > > > > useful > > > > > > > > > or harmful as the > > plants > > > reflect the light > > > > > > back > > > > > > > (makes > > > > > > > > them appear more > > > > > > > > > green but does > nothing > > else > > > for them). The > > > > > > > kelvin > > > > > > > > rating is based on our > > > > > > > > > eyes and how they > > perceive > > > color, so each > > > > > > > company > > > > > > > > doesn't have to be > > > > > > > > > identical, perhaps > some > > day > > > they will have > > > > > > a > > > > > > > universal > > > > > > > > way to measure > > > > > > > > > light > > > > > > > > > spectrums on bulbs > that > > is > > > much less > > > > > > confusing. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Amber > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Lenny V. aka > GoldLenny > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > OK. So you > have a > > total > > > of 80 watts > > > > > > right > > > > > > > now, > > > > > > > > which is just over 1 > > > > > > > > > > WPG, which > means > > you > > > only have enough > > > > > > > lighting > > > > > > > > for low-light, easy to > > > > > > > > > > grow plants. > See my > > blog > > > article > > > > > > "Planted > > > > > > > Tank: > > > > > > > > So You Want A Planted > > > > > > > > > > Tank" for > links to > > lists > > > of low-light, > > > > > > easy > > > > > > > to > > > > > > > > grow plants that will > > > > > > > > > > do OK in your > tank. > > You > > > should replace > > > > > > > those > > > > > > > > tubes at least > yearly... > > > > > > > > > > although some > say > > every > > > six months. As > > > > > > far > > > > > > > as I > > > > > > > > know, a 40W bulb is > > > > > > > > > > the highest > wattage > > made > > > for this type > > > > > > of > > > > > > > > bulb/fixture right now > but > > > > > > > > > > you can > increase > > your > > > lighting > > > > > > > > > > (lumens) and > K > > (Kelvin) > > > rating. See > > > > > > below. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > NOTE - below > links > > are > > > for > > > > > > > example/informational > > > > > > > > purposes only, as I > > > > > > > > > > know nothing > about > > the > > > sites. God... > > > > > > did I > > > > > > > just > > > > > > > > say that? Do I really > > > > > > > > > > have to add > > disclaimers > > > to my posts > > > > > > now? LOL > > > > > > > Just > > > > > > > > laughing at myself. > > > > > > > > > > LOL > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > This may be > your > > > Sylvania bulb... > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > http://www.lightbulbemporium.com/proddetail.asp?prod=F40/EX50 > > > > > > > <http://www.lightbulbemporium.com/proddetail.asp?prod=F40/EX50> > > > > > <http://www.lightbulbemporium.com/proddetail.asp?prod=F40/EX50 > > > > > > > <http://www.lightbulbemporium.com/proddetail.asp?prod=F40/EX50>> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > <http://www.lightbulbemporium.com/proddetail.asp?prod=F40/EX50 > > > > > > > <http://www.lightbulbemporium.com/proddetail.asp?prod=F40/EX50> > > > > > <http://www.lightbulbemporium.com/proddetail.asp?prod=F40/EX50 > > > > > > > <http://www.lightbulbemporium.com/proddetail.asp?prod=F40/EX50>>> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > <http://www.lightbulbemporium.com/proddetail.asp?prod=F40/EX50 > > > > > > > <http://www.lightbulbemporium.com/proddetail.asp?prod=F40/EX50> > > > > > <http://www.lightbulbemporium.com/proddetail.asp?prod=F40/EX50 > > > > > > > <http://www.lightbulbemporium.com/proddetail.asp?prod=F40/EX50>> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > <http://www.lightbulbemporium.com/proddetail.asp?prod=F40/EX50 > > > > > > > <http://www.lightbulbemporium.com/proddetail.asp?prod=F40/EX50> > > > > > <http://www.lightbulbemporium.com/proddetail.asp?prod=F40/EX50 > > > > > > > <http://www.lightbulbemporium.com/proddetail.asp?prod=F40/EX50>>>> > > > > > > > > and if > > > > > > > > > > it is, then > it's > > the > > > same ratings as > > > > > > the > > > > > > > specs in > > > > > > > > the T-10 bulb that I > > > > > > > > > > copy/pasted > below, > > which > > > is a pretty > > > > > > good > > > > > > > bulb > > > > > > > > with higher lumens and > > > > > > > > > > the higher K > > rating, > > > although not a > > > > > > 6500K > > > > > > > rated > > > > > > > > bulb. At the bottom of > > > > > > > > > > this page, > there > > was a > > > link to this > > > > > > bulb... > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > http://www.lightbulbemporium.com/maxlite_51204_ml_f40t10_850_rscg.as > > > > > > > <http://www.lightbulbemporium.com/maxlite_51204_ml_f40t10_850_rscg.as> > > > > > > > > > <http://www.lightbulbemporium.com/maxlite_51204_ml_f40t10_850_rscg.as > > > > > > > > <http://www.lightbulbemporium.com/maxlite_51204_ml_f40t10_850_rscg.as>> > > > > > > > > > p > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > <http://www.lightbulbemporium.com/maxlite_51204_ml_f40t10_850_rscg.a > > > > > > > <http://www.lightbulbemporium.com/maxlite_51204_ml_f40t10_850_rscg.a> > > > > > <http://www.lightbulbemporium.com/maxlite_51204_ml_f40t10_850_rscg.a > > > > > > > <http://www.lightbulbemporium.com/maxlite_51204_ml_f40t10_850_rscg.a>> > > > > > > > > > sp> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > <http://www.lightbulbemporium.com/maxlite_51204_ml_f40t10_850_rscg.a > > > > > > > <http://www.lightbulbemporium.com/maxlite_51204_ml_f40t10_850_rscg.a> > > > > > <http://www.lightbulbemporium.com/maxlite_51204_ml_f40t10_850_rscg.a > > > > > > > <http://www.lightbulbemporium.com/maxlite_51204_ml_f40t10_850_rscg.a>> > > > > > > > > > sp > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > <http://www.lightbulbemporium.com/maxlite_51204_ml_f40t10_850_rscg.a > > > > > > > <http://www.lightbulbemporium.com/maxlite_51204_ml_f40t10_850_rscg.a> > > > > > <http://www.lightbulbemporium.com/maxlite_51204_ml_f40t10_850_rscg.a > > > > > > > <http://www.lightbulbemporium.com/maxlite_51204_ml_f40t10_850_rscg.a>> > > > > > > > > > sp> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > which > > > > > > > > > > has an even > higher > > lumen > > > rating of > > > > > > 3700, > > > > > > > although > > > > > > > > not much higher than > > > > > > > > > > the 3550 > rating > > but > > > every little bit > > > > > > helps > > > > > > > > especially since the > > > > > > > > > > MaxLite bulb > was a > > lower > > > price than > > > > > > the > > > > > > > Sylvania > > > > > > > > bulb. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > As you will > see on > > this > > > page > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > http://www.lightbulbsdirect.com/Merchant2/merchant.mvc?page=001/CTGY > > > > > > > <http://www.lightbulbsdirect.com/Merchant2/merchant.mvc?page=001/CTGY> > > > > > > > > > <http://www.lightbulbsdirect.com/Merchant2/merchant.mvc?page=001/CTGY > > > > > > > > <http://www.lightbulbsdirect.com/Merchant2/merchant.mvc?page=001/CTGY>> > > > > > > > > > /F > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > <http://www.lightbulbsdirect.com/Merchant2/merchant.mvc?page=001/CTG > > > > > > > <http://www.lightbulbsdirect.com/Merchant2/merchant.mvc?page=001/CTG> > > > > > <http://www.lightbulbsdirect.com/Merchant2/merchant.mvc?page=001/CTG > > > > > > > <http://www.lightbulbsdirect.com/Merchant2/merchant.mvc?page=001/CTG>> > > > > > > > > > Y/F> > > > > > > > > > > S+Fluo > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > <http://www.lightbulbsdirect.com/Merchant2/merchant.mvc?page=001/CTG > > > > > > > <http://www.lightbulbsdirect.com/Merchant2/merchant.mvc?page=001/CTG> > > > > > <http://www.lightbulbsdirect.com/Merchant2/merchant.mvc?page=001/CTG > > > > > > > <http://www.lightbulbsdirect.com/Merchant2/merchant.mvc?page=001/CTG>> > > > > > > > > > Y/ > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > <http://www.lightbulbsdirect.com/Merchant2/merchant.mvc?page=001/CTG > > > > > > > <http://www.lightbulbsdirect.com/Merchant2/merchant.mvc?page=001/CTG> > > > > > <http://www.lightbulbsdirect.com/Merchant2/merchant.mvc?page=001/CTG > > > > > > > <http://www.lightbulbsdirect.com/Merchant2/merchant.mvc?page=001/CTG>> > > > > > > > > > Y/> > > > > > > > > > > FS+Fluo> > > > > > > > > > > rescent > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > The second > bulb > > down > > > would be similar > > > > > > to > > > > > > > yours, > > > > > > > > except we do not know > > > > > > > > > > the lumen or > color > > > spectrum rating on > > > > > > your > > > > > > > bulb, > > > > > > > > unless that link I > > > > > > > > > > gave above is > > actually > > > your bulb and > > > > > > then > > > > > > > it > > > > > > > > would be the same as > this > > > > > > > > > > one. The specs > on > > it > > > are: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > T-10 > Fluorescent > > > > > > > > > > 40 Watts > > > > > > > > > > Length: 48" > > > > > > > > > > Medium Bi-Pin > Base > > > > > > > > > > Color: 5000K > > > Temperature > > > > > > > > > > Initial > Lumens: > > 3550 > > > > > > > > > > CRI: 84 > > > > > > > > > > Average Life: > > 20,000 > > > Hours > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > The Color > spectrum > > of > > > 5000K (Kelvin) is > > > > > > OK > > > > > > > but > > > > > > > > 6500K would be much > > > > > > > > > better. > > > > > > > > > > The Lumens of > 3550 > > is > > > the actual amount > > > > > > of > > > > > > > > *light* > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > The next bulb > down > > from > > > that one is a > > > > > > T-12, > > > > > > > which > > > > > > > > will also fit in > > > > > > > > > > your fixture > but > > they > > > are bigger > > > > > > diameter > > > > > > > bulbs > > > > > > > > and this one actually > > > > > > > > > > puts out less > > light > > > (lumens). Here are > > > > > > the > > > > > > > > specs: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > T-12 > Fluorescent > > > > > > > > > > 40 Watts > > > > > > > > > > Length: 48" > > > > > > > > > > Base: Medium > > Bi-Pin > > > Base > > > > > > > > > > Initial > Lumens: > > 2200 > > > > > > > > > > Average Life: > > 20,000 > > > Hours > > > > > > > > > > Color > Temperature: > > > 5000K > > > > > > > > > > CRI: 92 > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > It has the > same > > Color > > > spectrum but > > > > > > only > > > > > > > 2200 > > > > > > > > lumens so the above > T-10 > > > > > > > > > > bulb has > around 50% > > more > > > lumens > > > > > > (light) > > > > > > > coming > > > > > > > > out of it. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Now, if you > scroll > > down > > > to the second > > > > > > from > > > > > > > the > > > > > > > > bottom on the page, > > > > > > > > > > you'll see > the > > Verilux > > > Instant-Sun > > > > > > T-12 > > > > > > > bulb > > > > > > > > which has a higher > Kelvin > > > > > > > > > > rating but it > > doesn't > > > list the lumens > > > > > > so > > > > > > > this > > > > > > > > needs to be checked out > > > > > > > > > > further. While > the > > > higher K rating is > > > > > > good, > > > > > > > if it > > > > > > > > goes back down to > > > > > > > > > > only 2200 > lumens, > > > instead of the 3550 > > > > > > lumens > > > > > > > of > > > > > > > > the first referenced > > > > > > > > > > bulb above, > then I > > would > > > probably go > > > > > > with > > > > > > > the > > > > > > > > 3550 lumens, 5000K bulb > > > > > > > > > > over the 6280K > bulb > > if > > > the lumens were > > > > > > a > > > > > > > LOT > > > > > > > > less. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > (START SNIP) > > > > > > > > > > Engineered to > > reproduce > > > all the colors > > > > > > and > > > > > > > > balance of natural > light, > > > > > > > > > > VeriluxR full > > spectrum > > > fluorescent > > > > > > tubes > > > > > > > feature > > > > > > > > Trucolite Phosphor > > > > > > > > > > TechnologyT > which > > > includes the use of > > > > > > a > > > > > > > stable, > > > > > > > > custom blend of earth > > > > > > > > > > phosphors > that > > create > > > bright, balanced > > > > > > full > > > > > > > > spectrum light. > > > > > > > > > > T-12 > Fluorescent > > > > > > > > > > 40 Watts > > > > > > > > > > Length: 48" > > > > > > > > > > Color > Temperature: > > > 6280K > > > > > > > > > > CRI: 94 > > > > > > > > > > Medium Bi-Pin > Base > > > > > > > > > > (END SNIP) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > So, as you > can > > see, > > > there's a few > > > > > > things to > > > > > > > look > > > > > > > > for when shopping for > > > > > > > > > > new > replacement > > bulbs. > > > Look for the > > > > > > 5000K > > > > > > > to > > > > > > > > 6500K bulbs with the > > > > > > > > > > higher lumen > rating > > for > > > the dollar and > > > > > > you > > > > > > > should > > > > > > > > be good. Note that a > > > > > > > > > > 3550 or 3700 > lumen > > bulb > > > will put out > > > > > > nearly > > > > > > > twice > > > > > > > > as much light as a > > > > > > > > > > 2000 lumen > bulb so > > it > > > can be easy to > > > > > > > increase > > > > > > > > your lighting without > > > > > > > > > > increasing > the > > wattage. > > > DO NOT try to > > > > > > use HO > > > > > > > or > > > > > > > > VHO bulbs... which > > > > > > > > > > look similar > but > > have > > > much higher > > > > > > wattage, > > > > > > > well > > > > > > > > over the 40W bulbs you > > > > > > > > > > now have. > These > > other HO > > <br/><br/>(Message over 64 KB, truncated)

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 44470	From: Jade	Date: 11/12/2009
Subject: Re: Aquarium heater sedimentation?

Lenny: IT's actually growing completely around the heater. The Ph of my tap is 7.1, after letting it sit. A friend of mine had recommended that to me awhile back. No I'm not adding any water hardeners and in fact I removed the gravel of my tank(replaced with natural sand) which was increasing the Ph, and added in driftwood. 8.0 is the lowest it seems to go. I do not have GH or KH tests... and unfortunately at present cannot afford to buy them. Steve: My parents had an aquarium for the longest, they never had this problem... though in spite of the meticulous care of my tank... it's always there. The only things I add to my tank are Stress Coat +, Stress Zyme (Once a week), and Flourish, though this was happening long before I had live plants. It happened in my past tanks as well... maybe the heater brand could be the problem? I had the same brand every time this happened, though I doubt the brand would be problematic it's a thought. I've scoured the internet for weeks and came up empty-handed. Obviously whatever this crap is, it isn't good for the heater I wouldn't think. When I can manage to have the funds to be able to get a new heater just in case this one cracks I will try to scrape off the...whatever it is. --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@...> wrote: > > OK. From looking at the picture, it looks like this stuff is growing just > on the front side of the heater facing the light of the tank... right? If I > am seeing it correctly, then this is probably some kind of algae since it's > only growing on the lighted side of the heater. I've never seen one that > prefers only the HOT temperatures of a heater though. > > As far as your pH goes, is this pH of 8.0 in your tank or right out your > tap? I have an article on my blog called "Find Your Tap Water Baseline" and > it's a good idea for everyone to do this and know what happens to their tap > water. Testing it right out the tap will not give accurate numbers most of > the time. The 48 hour baseline is a more accurate number but folks also > need to know their right out the tap numbers as they might have to do > smaller % PWC's if their right-out-the-tap numbers are a LOT different than > their 48 hour baseline and/or actual tank numbers. I'm guessing you're not > adding anything like crushed coral, other water hardener substances, etc... > or do you possibly have a substrate that might have something in it that is > leaching hardness into your water in the tank? The 48 hour baseline numbers > will tell us more. > > Do you have GH and KH tests? That will also give us more info. API makes a > combo kit for GH and KH that matches with the Master Test Kit and/or other > individual kits. If you do, let us know the 48 hour tap water baseline > numbers and your tank numbers. > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On > Behalf Of Jade > Sent: Wednesday, November 11, 2009 8:59 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Aquarium heater sedimentation? > > > Lenny: > (answers in parenthesis) > > How long have you had your tank set up? (About two years now) > > Do you have this "brown substance) > on the gravel, other decorations, glass, etc? (No I do not) > > Give us more details about your tank. Size, stocking, fish species, > etc.(Size - 20 gal long, stocking 9 adult guppies and 2 adolescents.) > > Give us a little info on your fish keeping skills also. (I've been raising > live-bearers for the better part of 12 years now... clarify skills?) > > What is your pH level and why do you think it is high? Contrary to some of > the bottles of crap that some stores sell, you do NOT need a pH of 7.0 in > order to keep fish and in fact, a higher or lower pH is often better for > many species of fish. > (My PH is 8.0, according to the water tester from API (Not the sticks!!! > Vials with the drops... noted far more accurate) I am well aware you don't > need a flat ph of 7.0 and in fact some species of freshwater fish prefer > high-end PH. Guppies themselves prefer about 7.5)) > > How did you crack your heater by cleaning it? Did you drop it or something? > I can't imagine scrubbing it with a brush would break it unless it already > had a fracture or stress crack. (Negative, I didn't drop it, I was using a > semi-dull knife to try to get the brown stuff off - the same that is on this > heater, and it simply just cracked.) > ------------ > > Steve: > Thanks for the tip, I'll try to give it a go when I can get the razor. Right > now I can't afford that much less a new heater. So I think I'll hold off > just a bit until I can afford BOTH, just in case, hehe. > > ------------- > Donna: > These unfortunately don't just brush away. Sometimes small, solid chunks > will fall off, but it's rare. > > --------- > To All : Took a to give you guys some reference as to what it looks like. > The brown thing on the top left is a lily pad, just so you know. See photo > link below. > > http://i352.photobucket.com/albums/r329/Tehzedaj/Picture60.jpg > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@> > wrote: > > > > How long have you had your tank set up? Do you have this "brown > > substance) on the gravel, other decorations, glass, etc? > > > > Give us more details about your tank. Size, stocking, fish species, etc. > > Give us a little info on your fish keeping skills also. > > > > What is your pH level and why do you think it is high? Contrary to > > some of the bottles of crap that some stores sell, you do NOT need a > > pH of 7.0 in order to keep fish and in fact, a higher or lower pH is > > often better for many species of fish. > > > > How did you crack your heater by cleaning it? Did you drop it or > something? > > I can't imagine scrubbing it with a brush would break it unless it > > already had a fracture or stress crack. > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles > > referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically > > under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] > > On Behalf Of Jade > > Sent: Sunday, November 08, 2009 9:29 PM > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > Subject: [AquaticLife] Aquarium heater sedimentation? > > > > I have a hard light brown (tanish) substance covering the tube of my > > aquarium heater... is this sediment? I was wondering if that's what's > > causing my high Ph (there's absolutely nothing else in there that > > could do it...). How do I clean it off? I've had the problem before... > > and in attempts to clean it the heater actually cracked (thankfully it > > wasn't in the tank at the time.) > > > > Any ideas/suggestions/help would be appreciated :) > > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 44471	From: erikaandnewton	Date: 11/12/2009
Subject: strong odor

so prior to moving my frogs here they were @ my parents house and the tank became slightly neglected. when i was finally able to go get them the decorations had black algae growing on them and the tank had an odor that reminded me of the mud in the bottom of the mostly stagnant lagoon behind my parents beach house (or something like marsh mud). i bleached the ornaments and rinsed the flourite really really well. a few days ago i noticed the odor is now showing up in the 75. Whats going on here? do i have to get rid of everything that was in the old tank or what? the old tank had no filtration going but on the 75, at least for now, i set up their zoo med 501. not big enough for the tank, but i don't really need much filtration any way at this point and i just set it up so the water would circulate to spread the heat. erika newark de usa

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 44472	From: bill 1433	Date: 11/12/2009
Subject: Re: wisteria/lighting previous question/response revisited

Hi Len, I wrote all of this before but with going back and fourth so many times its more that possible that you missed it. Yes, it's a 30" fixture that has one tube in it at 24" or exactly measurements are 23" end piece or band to end piece, the tube over-all measure's 23 7/8 from pin edge to pin edge. Now all that being said it is stamped or printed at 17 Watts from All-Glass and the final piece of the puzzle and probably why none of us can find any information is what else is stamped or printed on the tube: "Made In Germany"! Again, I think we are on "middle ground" with the 23 7/8. It could very well be that it is also the 22 5/16 again the "where" and whose is doing the measuring that counts. Giving all of this a lot of thought and the aggravation of it all, which is now reaching critical mass, I did today come one with one lone constructive thought. How about if I try to give All-Glass a phone call and find out just exactly what if any tubes can be used with this fixture? I thought originally to try taking it apart and getting an "eyeball" on the ballast but to do so could risk damage to the unit as it is stamped or put together in spots with those flimsy plastic tabs and I really don't want to risk the damage to the unit. Next order of business, find a phone number for these folks! Bill --- On Thu, 11/12/09, Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@...> wrote: > From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@...> > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: wisteria/lighting previous question/response revisited > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Date: Thursday, November 12, 2009, 5:04 PM > Can you show me a link to a T-4, 17W > bulb?  I haven't found a single one in > all the reading that I've been doing.  Remind me how > long your bulbs are > again?  I scrolled down looking and didn't see an > exact answer.  In looking > at your link to DFS about your fixture, I see that for the > 29G/20G, it's 30" > long with the 24" bulbs but I wanted to be sure since every > site I look at > for T-4's, they do not come in 17W or 24" length so I'm > still thinking > something is wrong with your calculations or the reading of > the specs/calcs > that you do have. > > Here are three different sites with their lists of T-4 > bulbs and as you can > see, there are NO 17W bulbs and no 24" bulbs. > > http://www.lightbulbsdirect.com/page/001/CTGY/T4 > http://www.buylighting.com/T4-Fluorescent-s/102.htm > http://www.servicelighting.com/T4-Straight-Linear-Fluorescent-Light-Bulbs > > The closest that T-4's come are 20.5" or 22-5/16" with only > one type/brand > having the 22-5/16" bulb as a specialty bulb and all of the > other T-4's are > 20.5" and then jump up to 33 7/8" or 33.9" depending on the > site. > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed > on the right > side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives > by Year, Month) > > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] > On > Behalf Of bill 1433 > Sent: Thursday, November 12, 2009 3:27 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: wisteria/lighting previous > question/response > revisited > > Hi Len, > > Like I said, they are a 1/2" but so far all I can find > around here > are "cool white" and "warm light" bulbs. > > Bill > > --- On Thu, 11/12/09, Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@...> > wrote: > > > From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@...> > > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: wisteria/lighting > previous > question/response revisited > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > Date: Thursday, November 12, 2009, 3:48 PM > > Bulb diameter is easy.  Take the > > bulb and place it over a ruler/tape > > measurer and look straight down on it.  It should be > > easy to discern between > > 1/2" (T-4) and 1" (T-8) and the T-5 (5/8") uses a > > completely different > > single pin on each end so that would eliminate that > > bulb.  Or better yet.. > > take your bulb to the WalMart and compare apples to > apples > > and you'll then > > know exactly what you have and also be able to see > what > > your local WalMart > > offers as far as better bulbs.  You can probably get > > much more lighting with > > a new $5.00 to $10.00 bulb. > > > > Then Santa can still bring you the bigger tank and > > accessories and your > > other tanks will also be far more functional in case > you > > choose to sell them > > or just have more tanks.  As far as selling your > > unused stuff, > > CraigsList.org is free and you can renew the ad every > week > > until you find > > the right buyer who is willing to pay the best price > you > > can get. > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > > (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are > listed > > on the right > > side, alphabetically under Labels and also under > Archives > > by Year, Month) > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] > > On > > Behalf Of bill 1433 > > Sent: Thursday, November 12, 2009 2:27 PM > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: wisteria/lighting > previous > > question/response > > revisited > > > > Bulb Diameter Len, and now you see my problem.  I > > haven't found any either. > > Also reading and studying all that you have sent me so > far > > I come away from > > all of this with one single thought, is it worth > it?  > > > > > > With all this being said and it so close to the time > for a > > visit from > > "Santa", I'm wondering if I should not put all you > have > > taught me to better > > use by just getting something like a standard > 55-gallon > > tank!  These lights > > do cost a bit but there is not a huge different > between > > size vs. cost from a > > 29 to a 55.  Then to is the issue of what to do with > > the plastic covers I > > already have should I go to the all glass covers. > > > > Sell them, sure but to whom?  Remember, I'm the guy > > that has a hard time > > just trying to find a place to buy fish around here, > there > > just aren't that > > many places or people.  No matter what I do, I > promise > > to keep you posted. > > > > Thanks for all you've taught and helped me with, > > > > Bill > > > > > > --- On Thu, 11/12/09, Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@...> > > wrote: > > > > > From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@...> > > > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: wisteria/lighting > > previous > > question/response revisited > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > > Date: Thursday, November 12, 2009, 2:42 PM > > > Once again Bill.... you need to get > > > away from the "Watts" mindset.  It's > > > just not applicable with the wide array of bulbs > > available > > > nowadays.  That > > > link goes to a CFL light strip and 65 watts of > CFL > > lighting > > > is a LOT, LOT, > > > LOT (3 LOTS) more lighting than 65 watts of an > > incandescent > > > bulb and a LOT, > > > LOT (2 LOTS) more lighting than a 65W normal > > fluorescent > > > bulb.  This would > > > probably increase your lighting by 10X's over > what you > > have > > > now.  If you > > > just went with 20W (range) CFL's, you'd get > 2-3X's > > more > > > light than you > > > currently have.  > > > > > > You still need to do some more research on your > > current > > > bulbs to find out > > > the specs on them.  Without knowing your > current > > > specs, it's difficult to > > > know how much more lighting you might want/need. > > > > > > Since you got your fixture and bulbs from DFS, I > just > > did a > > > search of '17 > > > watt fluorescent' and four bulbs came up.. one > was a > > CFL so > > > that wasn't it > > > and the other three are below BUT none of them > are > > T-4's... > > > in fact, so far, > > > I have not been able to find a T-4, 17W bulb > > > anywhere.  What are you > > > measuring to come up with the 1/2" figure?  > Bulb > > > diameter, pin separation or > > > other??? > > > > > > http://www.drsfostersmith.com/product/prod_display.cfm?pcatid=3787 > > > (24", > > > T-8, 5500K, nothing for lumens) > > > > > > http://www.drsfostersmith.com/product/prod_display.cfm?pcatid=4491 > > > (24", > > > T-8, Actinic 420nm, nothing for lumens) > > > > > > http://www.drsfostersmith.com/product/prod_display.cfm?pcatid=4489 > > > (24", > > > T-8, 6500K, nothing for lumens) > > > > > > You need to take your bulb out and go to a local > > lighting > > > store (department) > > > or even the Walmart and see if they can give you > more > > info > > > on it or at least > > > you might find identical sized bulbs that do > have > > specs on > > > them so you can > > > be more informed about what you have. > > > > > > While I was at the DFS site, and since you > previously > > > mentioned that you > > > have an All-Glass hood that came with the one > bulb > > light > > > strip, I did a > > > search on DFS for 'All-Glass light' and found > this > > link for > > > the only single > > > bulb light strip that All-Glass has on DFS' > site. > > > > > > http://www.drsfostersmith.com/product/prod_display.cfm?pcatid=3793 > > > > > > It comes in 16" or 20" lengths.  There's a link > to > > > "View compatible Bulbs" > > > in the Description tab, which brings up a page > of > > bulbs and > > > ALL of the ones > > > compatible for the 20" strip are T-8 bulbs.  > There > > are > > > a couple of dozen > > > bulbs listed so I didn't go through them and > > unfortunately, > > > they do NOT list > > > the wattage on that list so I wasn't able to find > any > > 17W > > > bulbs without > > > checking a bunch of links.  Since it was an > > All-Glass > > > fixture, I did click > > > on the first All-Glass brand bulb which brought > up > > this > > > page... > > > > > > http://www.drsfostersmith.com/product/prod_display.cfm?pcatid=12850 > > > > > > And you will see that there is either an 18", 15W > bulb > > or a > > > 24", 17W bulb, > > > as well as others... and these are the 8000K > bulbs > > which > > > were listed in the > > > description on the website link that you posted > > earlier > > > BUT.. these are ALL > > > T-8 bulbs, not T-4's so we're back to that spec > issue > > > again.  This page does > > > call them 8000K Daylight, Full Spectrum bulbs so > maybe > > they > > > are OK but I > > > wish that the DFS site would list lumens since > that is > > a > > > critical, > > > need-to-know piece of information that is > missing.  > > As > > > seen in my previous > > > posts, the same sized bulbs can have a lumen > output > > that is > > > 50% to 100% > > > higher than a comparable bulb of the same size... > and > > that > > > makes a HUGE > > > difference in lighting. > > > > > > Once again, take the bulb to your WalMart and > compare > > > apples to apples and > > > find out exactly what size bulb you have and > while > > there, > > > look at other > > > identical sized bulbs and look for the highest > lumens > > in > > > the 5000K to 6500K > > > range, buy one and bring it home and see if it's > a > > LOT > > > brighter than what > > > you now have.  If so, that might do the trick. > > > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > > > (Links to any articles referenced in above reply > are > > listed > > > on the right > > > side, alphabetically under Labels and also under > > Archives > > > by Year, Month) > > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] > > > On > > > Behalf Of bill 1433 > > > Sent: Thursday, November 12, 2009 12:12 PM > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: wisteria/lighting > > previous > > > question/response > > > revisited > > > > > > Hi Amber, > > > > > > The links Len provided are very close BUT it's > the > > ends of > > > the tube or pins > > > that worry me.  They are very close but "how"? > > > > > > Meaning this buying the tube, ok by mail?  Now > what > > if > > > it doesn't work? > > > Rreturn a $10.00 tube the postage would cost > more.  > > > I'm trying to work > > > backward now from Len's link, and get a > manufacture so > > I > > > can buy around > > > here.  Also I'm getting made enough now to > scrape > > the > > > whole thing and just > > > get a new All-Glass cover then maybe one of > these: > > > > > > > > > > > > http://www.drsfostersmith.com/product/prod_display.cfm?c=3578+3733+9654+9871 > > > &pcatid=9871 > > > > > > This link is not pointing to the exact Coralife > > product I > > > want at Doctors > > > its # apn-16981, if you have their catalog but I > can't > > make > > > it come up on > > > search at their site.  It is a single rated at > 65 > > > watts and is 24". > > > > > > Bill > > > --- On Thu, 11/12/09, Amber Berglund <arberglund@...> > > > wrote: > > > > > > > From: Amber Berglund <arberglund@...> > > > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: > wisteria/lighting > > > previous > > > question/response revisited > > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > > > Date: Thursday, November 12, 2009, 12:59 PM > > > > Bill does have T-4's if I remember > > > > correctly, maybe one of those 20watt > > > > bulbs will work for him and provide more > lumens > > than > > > his > > > > current bulbs do. > > > > Did you check those links out Bill? ;) > > > > > > > > Amber > > > > > > > > Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > > > > > > > > > > Just because a fixture currently has a > T-8 > > or > > > T-10, > > > > does not mean it > > > > > cannot > > > > > use a T-12, and vice versa. They are > all > > medium > > > bi-pin > > > > bulbs, meaning they > > > > > all will fit and work UNLESS the > reflector > > is so > > > tight > > > > that a T-12 cannot > > > > > fit inside the fixture but I haven't > seen > > this as > > > a > > > > problem in the past. > > > > > Usually, going with a T-8 or T-10, > instead > > of a > > > T-12 > > > > will give more lumens > > > > > but in the case of this particular > sized > > bulb, > > > the > > > > T-12 may be the better > > > > > option. Of course, we still need more > > details on > > > > Bill's exact bulb. We > > > > > still do not know anything except that > it's > > 17 > > > > watts... nothing about > > > > > lumens, K rating or anything else for > > comparison > > > > purposes. As Johnny 5 > > > > > once > > > > > said... "Need more input!" (I have no > clue > > why > > > that > > > > OLD movie line popped > > > > > into my head and I can't blame it on > drugs > > since > > > I > > > > didn't/don't do them... > > > > > and as far as I know, beer doesn't > cause > > acid > > > > flashbacks. LOL > > > > > http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Short_Circuit > > > > > <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Short_Circuit>) > > > > > > > > > > Now... thinking back a little. Bill > may > > have > > > T-4's and > > > > if he does, those > > > > > use the miniature bi-pin base and the > above > > > larger > > > > T-#'s with medium > > > > > bi-pin > > > > > base would not work. If this is the > case, > > there > > > are > > > > other options > > > > > listed on > > > > > this page... > > > > > > > > > http://www.servicelighting.com/T4-Straight-Linear-Fluorescent-Light-Bulbs > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > <http://www.servicelighting.com/T4-Straight-Linear-Fluorescent-Light-Bulbs> > > > > > including this 20W, 6400K, 1340 Lumens > bulb > > - > > > > > > > > > > > http://www.servicelighting.com/Bulbrite-85220-F20T4-64K-F20T4-D-T4-Straight- > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > <http://www.servicelighting.com/Bulbrite-85220-F20T4-64K-F20T4-D-T4-Straight > > > -> > > > > > Linear-Fluorescent-Light-Bulb, which > sounds > > like > > > a > > > > pretty good bulb > > > > > from the > > > > > specs and actually provides more lumens > than > > any > > > of > > > > the T-12's previously > > > > > listed. > > > > > > > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > > > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > > > (Links to any articles referenced in > above > > reply > > > are > > > > listed on the right > > > > > side, alphabetically under Labels and > also > > under > > > > Archives by Year, Month) > > > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > > > > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > > > > > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On > > > > > Behalf Of Amber Berglund > > > > > Sent: Thursday, November 12, 2009 10:29 > AM > > > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: > > wisteria/lighting > > > > previous > > > > > question/response > > > > > revisited > > > > > > > > > > Bill has smaller bulbs, I think they > are not > > easy > > > to > > > > find in a higher > > > > > wattage output, which is what he was > looking > > for > > > a few > > > > months back. > > > > > > > > > > Amber > > > > > > > > > > Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > I don't know what you mean by > this. > > Please > > > > elaborate. What size tube? > > > > > > I posted about several different > bulbs > > but > > > all > > > > were T-12's, which is > > > > > > one of the most common sizes. > > > > > > > > > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > > > > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > > > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>> > > > > > (Links to any articles referenced in > > > > > > above reply are listed on the > right > > side, > > > > alphabetically under Labels > > > > > > and also under Archives by Year, > > Month) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > > > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > > > > > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On > > > > Behalf Of bill 1433 > > > > > > Sent: Thursday, November 12, 2009 > 8:59 > > AM > > > > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > > > > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: > > > wisteria/lighting > > > > previous > > > > > > question/response revisited > > > > > > > > > > > > Yes Len, > > > > > > > > > > > > But its finding that size tube > with > > more of > > > > anything that's the problem. > > > > > > > > > > > > Bill > > > > > > > > > > > > --- On Wed, 11/11/09, Lenny V. > aka > > > GoldLenny > > > > <GoldLenny@... > > > > > > > > > <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com> > > > > > > > > <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com>> > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny > > <GoldLenny@... > > > > > > > > > <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com> > > > > > > > > <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com>> > > > > > > > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] > Re: > > > > wisteria/lighting previous > > > > > > > question/response revisited > > > > > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > > > > > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > Date: Wednesday, November > 11, > > 2009, > > > 5:22 PM > > > > Well, if you only have > > > > > > > 17W, then you could > definitely do > > > better > > > > with the 20W, higher lumen, > > > > > > > better K rating bulbs that I > > > mentioned. > > > > Considering the lumen > > > > > > > ratings of fluorescent bulbs > I've > > > looked at, > > > > your 17W bulbs might > > > > > > > only have 500-700 lumens > where the > > BEST > > > 20W > > > > bulb (below) has > > > > > > > 1075 lumens so you > > > > > > > could possibly increase your > > lighting > > > by 50% > > > > to 100% just by > > > > > > > changing to that bulb. At > least, > > with > > > that > > > > bulb, you'll be in the > > > > > > > low-light range for plants on > the > > 20G > > > but > > > > the 29G will need some work. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Of course, you should find > out > > what > > > the > > > > lumens and K ratings are on > > > > > > > the bulbs you have so you'll > know > > if > > > you are > > > > getting a small jump or > > > > > > > a BIG jump in lighting just > by > > changing > > > your > > > > bulbs. Check your local > > > > > > > WalMart for bulbs. My nearby > > WalMart > > > > SuperCenter has a really big > > > > > > > assortment of fluorescent > tubes > > and > > > they > > > > were cheaper than the Home > > > > > > > Depot. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Something else I'm thinking > about > > for > > > you is > > > > going with 18" > > > > > > > light-sticks on > > > > > > > each end of your 29G tank or > front > > or > > > back > > > > (back would hide it best > > > > > > > but you decide your best > > aesthetics) > > > and > > > > you'd have to make a DIY > > > > > > > reflector for it (white > poster > > board > > > and > > > > scotch tape would work) and > > > > > > > that would get more lighting > down > > to > > > the > > > > bottom level plants in the > > > > > > > 29G. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > > > > > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > > > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>> > > > > > (Links to any articles > > > > > > > referenced in above reply > are > > listed on > > > the > > > > right side, > > > > > > > alphabetically under Labels > and > > also > > > under > > > > Archives by Year, Month) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > > > > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > > > > > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > > > > > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] > > > > > > > On > > > > > > > Behalf Of bill 1433 > > > > > > > Sent: Wednesday, November 11, > 2009 > > 3:42 > > > PM > > > > > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > > > > > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] > Re: > > > > wisteria/lighting previous > > > > > > > question/response revisited > > > > > > > > > > > > > > It is what it is type of > thing > > Len. > > > Site > > > > says one thing but stamped > > > > > > > or printed right on the tube > is at > > 17 > > > > watts. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Bill > > > > > > > > > > > > > > --- On Wed, 11/11/09, Lenny > V. > > aka > > > GoldLenny > > > > <GoldLenny@... > > > > > > > > > <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com> > > > > > > > > <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com>> > > > > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > From: Lenny V. aka > GoldLenny > > > <GoldLenny@... > > > > > > > > > <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com> > > > > > > > > <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com>> > > > > > > > > Subject: RE: > [AquaticLife] > > Re: > > > > wisteria/lighting > > > > > > > previous > > > > > > > > question/response > revisited > > > > > > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > > > > > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > > Date: Wednesday, > November > > 11, > > > 2009, > > > > 2:16 PM The > > > > > > > problem might be this > > > > > > > > statement in the > > description... > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > "... Hoods include > 8000ºK > > > bulb... > > > > ...20W, 24"..." > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > That's getting into the > > higher > > > > green/blue Kelvin > > > > > > > range... > > > > > > > > closer to the > > > > > > > > 10,000K actinic type > bulbs... > > than > > > the > > > > 5000K to 6500K > > > > > > > "Daylight" bulbs > > > > > > > > that provide full > spectrum > > > lighting. > > > > It's also only > > > > > > > a 20W bulb > > > > > > > > (according to the DFS > site, > > > although > > > > you stated it was > > > > > > > only 17W so > > > > > > > > double check this) so > it's > > only > > > 1WPG on > > > > the 20G and > > > > > > > only 0.69WPG on > > > > > > > > the 29G. Of course, if > the > > bulb > > > puts > > > > out a LOT more > > > > > > > lumens (you would > > > > > > > > have to do more checking > up > > on the > > > bulb > > > > to find this), > > > > > > > that would help > > > > > > > > a little but not much. > I > > think you > > > need > > > > at least > > > > > > > 1WPG to have success > > > > > > > > with low-light plants, > > although > > > > floating plants like > > > > > > > Anacharis, > > > > > > > > Hornwort, Duckweed, > etc., > > would be > > > up > > > > close to the > > > > > > > light and benefit > > > > > > > > from CO2 from the air > and > > would do > > > OK > > > > with your > > > > > > > lighting... but then > > > > > > > > they would also block > out > > the > > > lighting > > > > to the rest of > > > > > > > the tank. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I don't see a lot of > options, > > as > > > far as > > > > T-8 bulbs are > > > > > > > concerned for > > > > > > > > this size fixture but I > see a > > few > > > > different T-12's... > > > > > > > such as... > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > (My rating is: GOOD - > but > > see > > > BETTER > > > > and BEST options > > > > > > > below... at > > > > > > > > least as far as the > bulbs on > > this > > > site > > > > are concerned) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > http://www.servicelighting.com/Sylvania-22119-F20T12-DSGN50-T12-Straig > > > > > > > > > > > <http://www.servicelighting.com/Sylvania-22119-F20T12-DSGN50-T12-Straig> > > > > > > > > > > > > <http://www.servicelighting.com/Sylvania-22119-F20T12-DSGN50-T12-Strai > > > > > > > > > > > <http://www.servicelighting.com/Sylvania-22119-F20T12-DSGN50-T12-Strai> > > > > > > g> > > > > > > > > ht-Lin > > > > > > > > > ear-Fluorescent-Light-Bulb > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Light Output: 880 > lumens > > > > > > > > Refers to the literal > measure > > of > > > the > > > > light-output of a > > > > > > > particular > > > > > > > > light bulb, measured in > the > > number > > > of > > > > lumens. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Energy Used: 20 watts > > > > > > > > "Watts" is the term > applied > > to > > > the > > > > amount of energy > > > > > > > required and used > > > > > > > > by a particular light > bulb. > > It is > > > an > > > > international > > > > > > > system unit of > > > > > > > > power equal to one joule > per > > > second. > > > > Contrary to > > > > > > > popular belief, the > > > > > > > > wattage of a bulb does > not > > > directly > > > > measure the > > > > > > > brightness; the > > > > > > > > "lumens" of a light is > what > > > defines the > > > > actual light > > > > > > > output. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Average Lifetime: 9,000 > > hours > > > > > > > > This refers to an > average > > > lifetime > > > > rating based on > > > > > > > large quantities in > > > > > > > > test groups. This > testing > > takes > > > into > > > > account usage of > > > > > > > 3 hours per > > > > > > > > start for fluorescent > lamps > > and > > > 10 > > > > hours per start for > > > > > > > HID lamps. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Bulb Type: T12 > > > > > > > > The "Bulb Type" is > typically > > a > > > > combination of the > > > > > > > style of bulb as > > > > > > > > well as the width of > the > > bulb. > > > Usually, > > > > the first > > > > > > > couple letters will > > > > > > > > indicate the type; "G" > would > > > indicate > > > > "Globe", "PAR" > > > > > > > would indicate > > > > > > > > "Parabolic Reflector"... > The > > > numbers > > > > indicate the > > > > > > > diameter of the > > > > > > > > light bulb in eighths of > an > > inch; > > > a > > > > "G40" would be a > > > > > > > "Globe" style > > > > > > > > that is "5 inches" in > > diameter. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Base Type: Medium > Bi-Pin > > > > > > > > The "Base" of a light > bulb is > > the > > > part > > > > that either > > > > > > > screws or snaps > > > > > > > > into a receptacle. Base > Type > > > > terminology may indicate > > > > > > > common > > > > > > > > descriptive words like > > "Medium" > > > or > > > > "Candelabra", or > > > > > > > may even contain > > > > > > > > numeric codes that > signify > > size > > > and > > > > variety, like > > > > > > > "E26" or "2GX13". > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Color Temperature: > 5,000K > > > > > > > > Correlated Color > Temperature > > (CCT) > > > is a > > > > specification > > > > > > > of the color > > > > > > > > appearance of a lamp, > > relating > > > its > > > > color to that of a > > > > > > > reference source > > > > > > > > heated to a particular > > > temperature, > > > > measured in > > > > > > > degrees Kelvin (K). It > > > > > > > > generally measures the > > "warmth" > > > or > > > > "coolness" of light > > > > > > > source > > > > > > > > appearance. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > CRI: 90 > > > > > > > > CRI refers to the > "Color > > > Rendering > > > > Index" of a light > > > > > > > bulb. > > > > > > > > CRI measures a > > > > > > > > light source and grades > its > > > ability to > > > > render the > > > > > > > color of objects > > > > > > > > "correctly," as compared > with > > a > > > > reference source with > > > > > > > comparable color > > > > > > > > temperature. 100 is > perfect > > > rendering. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Length: 24 inches > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > (BETTER - slightly > higher > > lumens > > > and > > > > higher 6500K > > > > > > > rating) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > http://www.servicelighting.com/Westinghouse-36516-F20T12-FS-T12-Straig > > > > > > > > > > > <http://www.servicelighting.com/Westinghouse-36516-F20T12-FS-T12-Straig> > > > > > > > > > > > > <http://www.servicelighting.com/Westinghouse-36516-F20T12-FS-T12-Strai > > > > > > > > > > > <http://www.servicelighting.com/Westinghouse-36516-F20T12-FS-T12-Strai> > > > > > > g> > > > > > > > > ht-Lin > > > > > > > > > ear-Fluorescent-Light-Bulb > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Light Output: 900 > lumens > > > > > > > > Energy Used: 20 watts > > > > > > > > Average Lifetime: > 10,000 > > hours > > > > > > > > Bulb Type: T12 > > > > > > > > Base Type: Medium > Bi-Pin > > > > > > > > Color Temperature: > 6,500K > > > > > > > > CRI: 90 > > > > > > > > Length: 24 inches > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > (BEST, of these three - > > around > > > 20% > > > > higher lumens and > > > > > > > good 6,500K > > > > > > > > rating, although it does > have > > a > > > lower > > > > CRI rating.. but > > > > > > > still > > > > > > > > passing) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > http://www.servicelighting.com/Sylvania-22083-F20T12-D-T12-Straight-Li > > > > > > > > > > > <http://www.servicelighting.com/Sylvania-22083-F20T12-D-T12-Straight-Li> > > > > > > > > > > > > <http://www.servicelighting.com/Sylvania-22083-F20T12-D-T12-Straight-L > > > > > > > > > > > <http://www.servicelighting.com/Sylvania-22083-F20T12-D-T12-Straight-L> > > > > > > i> > > > > > > > > near-F > > > > > > > > luorescent-Light-Bulb > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Light Output: 1,075 > lumens > > > > > > > > Energy Used: 20 watts > > > > > > > > Average Lifetime: 9,000 > > hours > > > > > > > > Bulb Type: T12 > > > > > > > > Base Type: Medium > Bi-Pin > > > > > > > > Color Temperature: > 6,500K > > > > > > > > CRI: 76 > > > > > > > > Length: 24 inches > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Compare the above three > to > > what is > > > sold > > > > as a > > > > > > > plant/aquarium light by > > > > > > > > the same company, which > has > > a > > > lower > > > > lumens, MUCH lower > > > > > > > CRI rating and > > > > > > > > does not list the K > rating > > other > > > than > > > > to say "Plant" > > > > > > > which is a > > > > > > > > subjective rating > established > > by > > > the > > > > manufacturer. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > (WORST) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > http://www.servicelighting.com/Westinghouse-36411-F20T12-PL-T12-Straig > > > > > > > > > > > <http://www.servicelighting.com/Westinghouse-36411-F20T12-PL-T12-Straig> > > > > > > > > > > > > <http://www.servicelighting.com/Westinghouse-36411-F20T12-PL-T12-Strai > > > > > > > > > > > <http://www.servicelighting.com/Westinghouse-36411-F20T12-PL-T12-Strai> > > > > > > g> > > > > > > > > ht-Lin > > > > > > > > > ear-Fluorescent-Light-Bulb > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Light Output: 700 > lumens > > (over 30% > > > less > > > > lighting > > > > > > > than the 1,075 > > > > > > > > lumens bulb > > > > > > > > above) > > > > > > > > Energy Used: 20 watts > > > > > > > > Average Lifetime: > 10,000 > > hours > > > > > > > > Bulb Type: T12 > > > > > > > > Base Type: Medium > Bi-Pin > > > > > > > > Color: Plant > > > > > > > > CRI: 61 > > > > > > > > Length: 24 inches > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > If any of the above > have > > much > > > better > > > > lumens than your > > > > > > > current > > > > > > > > lighting... > > > > > > > > and they all have better > K > > > ratings, > > > > then any of them > > > > > > > would be better > > > > > > > > for you... but you > would > > still be > > > stuck > > > > with only 20 > > > > > > > watts but it's > > > > > > > > the LUMENS and K rating > that > > count > > > more > > > > than watts. > > > > > > > You need to find > > > > > > > > out the lumens on your > bulb. > > Try > > > to > > > > find it on the > > > > > > > DFS site and let > > > > > > > > us know. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > You should look at the > > > AHSupply.com > > > > place for a > > > > > > > retrofit kit so you > > > > > > > > can use CFL's in your > > current > > > hood. > > > > That would > > > > > > > probably be your least > > > > > > > > expensive option. I know > you > > don't > > > like > > > > electricity > > > > > > > but I'm sure you > > > > > > > > know someone that could > do > > this > > > for > > > > you... on the > > > > > > > cheap... or over a > > > > > > > > 6-pack. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > > > > > > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > > > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>> > > > > > (Links to > > > > > > > any articles > > > > > > > > referenced in above > reply > > are > > > listed on > > > > the right > > > > > > > side, alphabetically > > > > > > > > under Labels and also > under > > > Archives by > > > > Year, Month) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -----Original > Message----- > > > > > > > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > > > > > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > > > > > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] > > > > > > > > On > > > > > > > > Behalf Of bill 1433 > > > > > > > > Sent: Wednesday, > November 11, > > 2009 > > > 9:33 > > > > AM > > > > > > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > > > > > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > > Subject: RE: > [AquaticLife] > > Re: > > > > wisteria/lighting > > > > > > > previous > > > > > > > > question/response > > > > > > > > revisited > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Hi \\Steve// > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > At this point, and also > to > > refresh > > > your > > > > mind, and > > > > > > > anyone > > > > > > > > else on the group > > > > > > > > that may have interest. > This > > all > > > got > > > > started with > > > > > > > my > > > > > > > > search for a tube that > > > > > > > > would allow me more > light > > output > > > from > > > > an All Glass > > > > > > > Plastic > > > > > > > > hood and light. > > > > > > > > This unit comes with a > "color > > type > > > tube > > > > at 17 watts > > > > > > > that is > > > > > > > > only 24 inches > > > > > > > > long. This is for a > > 20/29-gallon > > > tank. > > > > I was stupid enough to buy > > > > > > > > two of them, one for > each > > tank. > > > For > > > > further inspection > > > > > > > here > > > > > > > > is the light: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > http://www.drsfostersmith.com/product/prod_display.cfm?pcatid=13447 > > > > > > > > > > <http://www.drsfostersmith.com/product/prod_display.cfm?pcatid=13447> > > > > > > > <http://www.drsfostersmith.com/product/prod_display.cfm?pcatid=13447 > > > > > > > > > > <http://www.drsfostersmith.com/product/prod_display.cfm?pcatid=13447>> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > For those that would > like to > > > aggravate > > > > themselves > > > > > > > further, > > > > > > > > I can also state > > > > > > > > that these hoods are > very > > > conducive to > > > > growing Black Algae! > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Summoning up, I should > have > > only > > > > purchased an > > > > > > > All-Glass > > > > > > > > cover and then > > > > > > > > probably a double tube > light > > of > > > > sufficient wattage to > > > > > > > bring > > > > > > > > me up to the > > > > > > > > recommended 2 or 3 watts > per > > > gallon. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Ya live and learn, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Bill > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > --- On Tue, 11/10/09, > Steve > > Szabo > > > > <steve@... > > > > > > > > > <mailto:steve%40familyszabo.com> > > > > > > > > <mailto:steve%40familyszabo.com>> > > > > > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > From: Steve Szabo > <steve@... > > > > > > > > > <mailto:steve%40familyszabo.com> > > > > > > > > <mailto:steve%40familyszabo.com>> > > > > > > > > > Subject: RE: > > [AquaticLife] > > > Re: > > > > wisteria/lighting > > > > > > > > previous > > > > > > > > > question/response > > revisited > > > > > > > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > > > > > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > > > Date: Tuesday, > November > > 10, > > > 2009, > > > > 11:50 PM Bill, > > > > > > > you > > > > > > > > got it right! The > > > > > > > > > T numbers represent > the > > > diameter > > > > of the bulb in > > > > > > > 1/8" > > > > > > > > increments. A T4 > > > > > > > > > is a bulb 1/2" in > > diameter, > > > T5 is > > > > 5/8", t8 is > > > > > > > 1" and > > > > > > > > a t12 is 1 1/2". > > > > > > > > > As I recall, the F > is > > the > > > wattage > > > > of the bulb. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Lumens, not > usually > > stated on > > > the > > > > bulb is the > > > > > > > actual > > > > > > > > amount of light > > > > > > > > > coming from the > bulb. > > It > > > really > > > > does not have > > > > > > > anything > > > > > > > > to do with > > > > > > > > > watts, though more > watts > > will > > > give > > > > you more > > > > > > > lumens, > > > > > > > > but, also the > > > > > > > > > phosphors used in > the > > bulb > > > affect > > > > the amount of > > > > > > > lumen > > > > > > > > output. Lumens > > > > > > > > > and lux are often > used > > > > interchangeably, but they > > > > > > > are > > > > > > > > really different > > > > > > > > > measurements. Lux > is > > the > > > measure > > > > of illumination > > > > > > > over > > > > > > > > a given area. It > > > > > > > > > may actually be > more > > > important to > > > > aquarists > > > > > > > raising > > > > > > > > plants than the > > > > > > > > > lumen output. Lux > is > > what is > > > > measured by a light > > > > > > > > meter, for anyone who > > > > > > > > > happens to know > what > > they > > > are--not > > > > often seen > > > > > > > with > > > > > > > > today's cameras and > > > > > > > > > photographers. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Color temperature > is > > > important. > > > > Average daylight > > > > > > > > (except may in > > > > > > > > > Amber's area where > they > > have > > > 6 > > > > months of > > > > > > > darkness) has > > > > > > > > a color > > > > > > > > > temperature of > > 5500-6000. > > > > > > > > > An overcast day can > have > > a > > > color > > > > temperature of > > > > > > > 6500. > > > > > > > > As mentioned > > > > > > > > > earlier, plants > need > > light in > > > two > > > > color > > > > > > > spectrums, > > > > > > > > and, actually they > > > > > > > > > are rather narrow > spans > > of > > > > wavelengths they > > > > > > > benefit > > > > > > > > from. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I thought I had a > > bookmark > > > > explaining this, but > > > > > > > I > > > > > > > > can't find it > > > > > > > > > quickly (over 400K > of > > > bookmarks, > > > > and things have > > > > > > > a > > > > > > > > tendency to get > > > > > > > > > lost), however, > some > > > judicial > > > > Googling will gain > > > > > > > you > > > > > > > > the information. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > \\Steve// > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -----Original > > Message----- > > > > > > > > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > > > > > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > > > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > > > > > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] > > > > > > > > > On > > > > > > > > > Behalf Of bill > 1433 > > > > > > > > > Sent: Tuesday, > November > > 10, > > > 2009 > > > > 10:20 PM > > > > > > > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > > > > > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > > > Subject: Re: > > [AquaticLife] > > > Re: > > > > wisteria/lighting > > > > > > > > previous > > > > > > > > > question/response > > revisited > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Yes, Amber > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > It was I, looking > for > > the > > > original > > > > information > > > > > > > and > > > > > > > > also looked back on > > > > > > > > > \\Steve//'s post > at > > group to > > > try > > > > and find. Ray > > > > > > > had > > > > > > > > mentioned all this > > > > > > > > > the other day > saying > > that he > > > > thought the posting > > > > > > > came > > > > > > > > from \\Steve//. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I was not > successful in > > my > > > search. > > > > Also, for me > > > > > > > the > > > > > > > > most important > > > > > > > > > part was a link to > a > > chart > > > which > > > > showed you > > > > > > > exactly, > > > > > > > > or explained > > > > > > > > > exactly the "T" > > > > > > > > > factor stands for. > For > > > instance, > > > > T-4 would be a > > > > > > > tube > > > > > > > > that is a half > > > > > > > > > inch wide, or close > to > > > > it-----------I think. > > > > > > > All > > > > > > > > this is my own > > > > > > > > > fault. In my > interest > > to > > > acquire > > > > and learn > > > > > > > about > > > > > > > > lighting,I went > > > > > > > > > through and studied > the > > > applied > > > > links but being > > > > > > > > ol'bill, I never > > > > > > > > > bookmarked them. > > > > > > > > > Then to further > > > > > > > > > compound the > problem, I > > > deleted > > > > the original > > > > > > > message > > > > > > > > that it came > > > > > > > > > from. In hind-sight > you > > > could > > > > probably chalk > > > > > > > this > > > > > > > > all up to felonious > > > > > > > > > stupidity on my > part. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Bill---where its > always > > a > > > good day > > > > if I learn > > > > > > > > something new! > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > --- On Tue, > 11/10/09, > > Amber > > > > Berglund <arberglund@... > > > > > > > > > <mailto:arberglund%40gmail.com> > > > > > > > > <mailto:arberglund%40gmail.com>> > > > > > > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > From: Amber > Berglund > > <arberglund@... > > > > > > > > > <mailto:arberglund%40gmail.com> > > > > > > > > <mailto:arberglund%40gmail.com>> > > > > > > > > > Subject: Re: > > [AquaticLife] > > > Re: > > > > wisteria/lighting > > > > > > > > previous > > > > > > > > > question/response > > revisited > > > > > > > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > > > > > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > > > Date: Tuesday, > November > > 10, > > > 2009, > > > > 9:30 PM > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I believe it was > Steve > > who > > > posted > > > > a link about > > > > > > > lumens > > > > > > > > months back when > > > > > > > > > (I think it was > maybe > > Bill > > > asking) > > > > about lighting > > > > > > > for > > > > > > > > planted > > > > > > > > > aquariums. > > > > > > > > > Plants require 2 > > different > > > > spectrums of light to > > > > > > > > properly produce > > > > > > > > > either leaves or > flowers > > (red > > > is > > > > more for flower > > > > > > > > production and blue > > > > > > > > > is more for growth, > but > > for > > > the > > > > best growing you > > > > > > > want > > > > > > > > a mixture of > > > > > > > > > BOTH colors). > > > > > > > > > So in reality you > would > > want > > > a > > > > light that appears > > > > > > > more > > > > > > > > brown/reddish > > > > > > > > > in coloring and a > > blue/white > > > > coloring as well, > > > > > > > but > > > > > > > > they now have bulbs > > > > > > > > > that have BOTH > > spectrums > > > built in > > > > (I'm sure they > > > > > > > don't > > > > > > > > work as well as > > > > > > > > > it would to have 2 > > different > > > bulbs > > > > one mostly red > > > > > > > and > > > > > > > > the other mostly > > > > > > > > > blue on the color > > spectrum). > > > > > > > > > Let me see if I > still > > have > > > the > > > > link bookmarked. > > > > > > > > > What I was trying > to say > > is > > > that > > > > Kelvin does not > > > > > > > tell > > > > > > > > you what color > > > > > > > > > spectrum the light > > REALLY is, > > > it's > > > > actually > > > > > > > measuring > > > > > > > > it's light > > > > > > > > > output color > according > > to how > > > the > > > > human eyes > > > > > > > perceive > > > > > > > > it. So 6500 > > > > > > > > > kelvin in general > is > > what > > > most > > > > plants will > > > > > > > prefer > > > > > > > > because that is a > > > > > > > > > mixture of both red > and > > blue > > > > spectrums (In MOST > > > > > > > bulbs) > > > > > > > > unfortunately > > > > > > > > > not all light bulb > > > manufactures > > > > have to use the > > > > > > > exact > > > > > > > > same chart for > > > > > > > > > their colors, so > they > > will > > > have > > > > different colors > > > > > > > than > > > > > > > > another bulb > > > > > > > > > that says it's > 6500 > > Kelvin. > > > what > > > > you really need > > > > > > > to > > > > > > > > read is the color > > > > > > > > > chart on the box, > not > > what > > > lumens > > > > it says it is. > > > > > > > > > (still searching > for > > link, > > > LOL). > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > This isn't the > right > > link but > > > it > > > > discusses the > > > > > > > > kelvin/lumen problems a > > > > > > > > > little bit, still > > looking for > > > the > > > > link that > > > > > > > showed the > > > > > > > > charts and what > > > > > > > > > to look for in the > > color > > > charts. > > > > > > > > > > http://www.americanaquariumproducts.com/Aquarium_Lighting.html > > > > > > > > > <http://www.americanaquariumproducts.com/Aquarium_Lighting.html> > > > > > > <http://www.americanaquariumproducts.com/Aquarium_Lighting.html > > > > > > > > > <http://www.americanaquariumproducts.com/Aquarium_Lighting.html>> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Will post again > when I > > find > > > the > > > > other link with > > > > > > > chart > > > > > > > > examples. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Amber > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Lenny V. aka > GoldLenny > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I think it > would > > be > > > false > > > > advertising or > > > > > > > > possibly > > > > > > > > > mis-advertising > (if > > they > > > > > > > > > > do not know > any > > better) > > > if a > > > > company lists > > > > > > > their > > > > > > > > bulbs > > > > > > > > > as 6500K and they > > > > > > > > > > aren't. The > Kelvin > > > scale, > > > > just like Watts > > > > > > > and > > > > > > > > Lumens, > > > > > > > > > are ALL > > > > > > > > > > universal and > > > > > > > > > > > scientifically > > > measurable > > > > scales BUT, as I > > > > > > > > showed > > > > > > > > > below, not all 40 > watt > > > > > > > > > > bulbs put out > the > > same > > > amount > > > > of light > > > > > > > (lumens) > > > > > > > > or in > > > > > > > > > the same color > > > > > > > > > > spectrum > (Kelvin > > > rating). All > > > > 40 watt > > > > > > > bulbs, > > > > > > > > whether > > > > > > > > > incandescent, > > > > > > > > > > fluorescent, > CFL, > > LED, > > > > Halogen, etc.... ALL > > > > > > > use > > > > > > > > > only/around 40 > watts of > > > > > > > > > > electricity > but > > their > > > light > > > > output can vary > > > > > > > > > dramatically. This > is > > why > > > > > > > > > > fluorescent > bulbs > > are so > > > much > > > > more > > > > > > > efficient > > > > > > > > than > > > > > > > > > incandescent bulbs > and > > > > > > > > > > CFL's are > even > > more > > > > efficient... as a 40W > > > > > > > > fluorescent > > > > > > > > > bulb puts out a > LOT > > > > > > > > > > more light > (lumens) > > than > > > a 40 > > > > watt > > > > > > > incandescent > > > > > > > > bulb > > > > > > > > > and a 40W CFL > > > > > > > > > > puts out > > > > > > > > > > more light > (lumens) > > than > > > a > > > > 40W fluorescent > > > > > > > bulb. > > > > > > > > This > > > > > > > > > is why the OLD > > > > > > > > > > "Watts > > > > > > > > > > Per Gallon" > rule > > simply > > > does > > > > not work any > > > > > > > more. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > BUT.. if > three > > > different > > > > companies are > > > > > > > selling > > > > > > > > > standard T-10 > > fluorescent > > > > > > > > > > bulbs with > the > > same > > > exact > > > > rating of 40W, > > > > > > > 3550 > > > > > > > > lumens > > > > > > > > > and 6500K > > > > > > > > > > rating... all > > > > > > > > > > three of > those > > bulbs > > > should > > > > be VERY SIMILAR > > > > > > > if > > > > > > > > not > > > > > > > > > identical in the > > > > > > > > > > way they > > > > > > > > > > appear to our > eyes > > > (subject > > > > to our own > > > > > > > degree of > > > > > > > > color > > > > > > > > > blindness, of > > > > > > > > > > course!) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > In the past, > > things > > > like > > > > "soft white", > > > > > > > "warm > > > > > > > > white", > > > > > > > > > "daylight", "plant > > > > > > > > > > grow", etc., > type > > terms > > > were > > > > used and are > > > > > > > still > > > > > > > > used > > > > > > > > > but those are just > > > > > > > > > > simple words > (not > > > subject to > > > > a scientific > > > > > > > scale) > > > > > > > > to > > > > > > > > > describe the > Kelvin > > > > > > > > > > rating ranges > but > > lumens > > > are > > > > just as > > > > > > > important > > > > > > > > since a > > > > > > > > > bulb could have a > > > > > > > > > > 6500K rating > with > > only > > > 2200 > > > > lumens where > > > > > > > another > > > > > > > > bulb > > > > > > > > > could have a 6500K > > > > > > > > > > rating and > 3550 or > > 3700 > > > > lumens and that > > > > > > > bulb > > > > > > > > would put > > > > > > > > > out over 50% more > > > > > > > > > > light (lumens) > in > > the > > > same > > > > color spectrum > > > > > > > > (Kelvin > > > > > > > > > rating) so it would > be > > a > > > > > > > > > > much more > cost > > effective > > > bulb > > > > if it cost > > > > > > > the > > > > > > > > same > > > > > > > > > amount or only a > little > > > > > > > > > > more. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I'm slightly > > confused > > > about > > > > the "red and > > > > > > > blue > > > > > > > > light > > > > > > > > > for your plants" > as > > > > > > > > > > those two > colors > > are on > > > > opposite ends of > > > > > > > the > > > > > > > > Kelvin > > > > > > > > > Scale with reds > and > > > > > > > > > > ambers in the > > lower > > > numbers > > > > and greens and > > > > > > > blues > > > > > > > > in > > > > > > > > > the higher numbers. > I > > > > > > > > > > think this is > why > > you > > > would > > > > want a > > > > > > > mid-range > > > > > > > > (5000K to > > > > > > > > > 6500K) bulb as > > > > > > > > > > those > > > > > > > > > > are generally > > > considered > > > > "full spectrum" or > > > > > > > > "daylight" > > > > > > > > > bulbs. Here's a > > > > > > > > > > color picture > of > > the > > > Kelvin > > > > Scale, > > > > > > > > > > http://www.bltdirect.com/images/colour-temperature.jpg > > > > > > > > > <http://www.bltdirect.com/images/colour-temperature.jpg> > > > > > > <http://www.bltdirect.com/images/colour-temperature.jpg > > > > > > > > > <http://www.bltdirect.com/images/colour-temperature.jpg>> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > <http://www.bltdirect.com/images/colour-temperature.jpg > > > > > > > > > <http://www.bltdirect.com/images/colour-temperature.jpg> > > > > > > <http://www.bltdirect.com/images/colour-temperature.jpg > > > > > > > > > <http://www.bltdirect.com/images/colour-temperature.jpg>>> > > > > > > > > > and you can > > > > > > > > > > visually > > > > > > > > > > see that the > 5000K > > to > > > 6500K > > > > range is all > > > > > > > about > > > > > > > > the > > > > > > > > > same "color". I > think > > > > > > > > > > this is also > why > > > Actinic > > > > bulbs are usually > > > > > > > higher > > > > > > > > and > > > > > > > > > closer to the > 10000K > > > > > > > > > > range and > up... > > > apparently, > > > > the Kelvin > > > > > > > lighting > > > > > > > > scale > > > > > > > > > can go up to > 20,000K > > > > > > > > > > (according to > this > > > article > > > > about Reef Tanks > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > http://nh.craigslist.org/for/1423072406.html > > > > > <http://nh.craigslist.org/for/1423072406.html> > > > > > > <http://nh.craigslist.org/for/1423072406.html > > > > > <http://nh.craigslist.org/for/1423072406.html>> > > > > > > > > > > <http://nh.craigslist.org/for/1423072406.html > > > > > <http://nh.craigslist.org/for/1423072406.html> > > > > > > <http://nh.craigslist.org/for/1423072406.html > > > > > <http://nh.craigslist.org/for/1423072406.html>>> > > > > on, > > > > > > > > of > > > > > > > > > all places, > > > > > > > > > > Craigslist). > > > > > > > > > > Here is the > page > > that > > > that > > > > the above photo > > > > > > > link > > > > > > > > came > > > > > > > > > from and it has a > > > > > > > > > > chart > > > > > > > > > > that also > explains > > > things a > > > > little more also > > > > > > > and > > > > > > > > talks > > > > > > > > > about the CRI, yet > > > > > > > > > > another > lighting > > term > > > (Color > > > > Rendition > > > > > > > Index). > > > > > > > > > > http://www.bltdirect.com/lampColourTemperatures.php > > > > > <http://www.bltdirect.com/lampColourTemperatures.php> > > > > > > <http://www.bltdirect.com/lampColourTemperatures.php > > > > > <http://www.bltdirect.com/lampColourTemperatures.php>> > > > > > > > > > > <http://www.bltdirect.com/lampColourTemperatures.php > > > > > <http://www.bltdirect.com/lampColourTemperatures.php> > > > > > > <http://www.bltdirect.com/lampColourTemperatures.php > > > > > <http://www.bltdirect.com/lampColourTemperatures.php>>> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Lenny > Vasbinder > > > > > > > > > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > > > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>> > > > > > > > > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>>> > > > (Links > > > > > > > > to any articles > referenced > > in > > > > > > > > > > above reply > are > > > > > > > > > listed on the > right > > > > > > > > > > side, > > alphabetically > > > under > > > > Labels and also > > > > > > > under > > > > > > > > > Archives by Year, > > Month) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -----Original > > > Message----- > > > > > > > > > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > > > > > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > > > > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > > > > > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On > > > > > > > > Behalf Of Amber > Berglund > > > > > > > > > > Sent: > Tuesday, > > November > > > 10, > > > > 2009 4:22 PM > > > > > > > > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > > > > > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > > > > Subject: Re: > > > [AquaticLife] > > > > Re: > > > > > > > wisteria/lighting > > > > > > > > > previous > > > > > > > > > > > question/response > > > > > > > > > > revisited > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Another thing > to > > > consider is > > > > one light > > > > > > > company's > > > > > > > > 6500 > > > > > > > > > kelvin rating > > > > > > > > > > may not > > > > > > > > > > be identical > to > > another > > > light > > > > bulb from a > > > > > > > > different > > > > > > > > > company that's > > > > > > > > > > rated the > > > > > > > > > > same. The > > important > > > thing to > > > > look at is the > > > > > > > > color > > > > > > > > > chart they show on > the > > > > > > > > > > boxes, you > want > > more red > > > and > > > > blue light for > > > > > > > your > > > > > > > > > plants, green is > not > > > > > > > > > > useful > > > > > > > > > > or harmful as > the > > > plants > > > > reflect the light > > > > > > > back > > > > > > > > (makes > > > > > > > > > them appear more > > > > > > > > > > green but > does > > nothing > > > else > > > > for them). The > > > > > > > > kelvin > > > > > > > > > rating is based on > our > > > > > > > > > > eyes and how > they > > > perceive > > > > color, so each > > > > > > > > company > > > > > > > > > doesn't have to be > > > > > > > > > > identical, > perhaps > > some > > > day > > > > they will have > > > > > > > a > > > > > > > > universal > > > > > > > > > way to measure > > > > > > > > > > light > > > > > > > > > > spectrums on > bulbs > > that > > > is > > > > much less > > > > > > > confusing. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Amber > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Lenny V. aka > > GoldLenny > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > OK. So > you > > have a > > > total > > > > of 80 watts > > > > > > > right > > > > > > > > now, > > > > > > > > > which is just over > 1 > > > > > > > > > > > WPG, > which > > means > > > you > > > > only have enough > > > > > > > > lighting > > > > > > > > > for low-light, easy > to > > > > > > > > > > > grow > plants. > > See my > > > blog > > > > article > > > > > > > "Planted > > > > > > > > Tank: > > > > > > > > > So You Want A > Planted > > > > > > > > > > > Tank" > for > > links to > > > lists > > > > of low-light, > > > > > > > easy > > > > > > > > to > > > > > > > > > grow plants that > will > > > > > > > > > > > do OK in > your > > tank. > > > You > > > > should replace > > > > > > > > those > > > > > > > > > tubes at least > > yearly... > > > > > > > > > > > although > some > > say > > > every > > > > six months. As > > > > > > > far > > > > > > > > as I > > > > > > > > > know, a 40W bulb > is > > > > > > > > > > > the > highest > > wattage > > > made > > > > for this type > > > > > > > of > > > > > > > > > bulb/fixture right > now > > but > > > > > > > > > > > you can > > increase > > > your > > > > lighting > > > > > > > > > > > (lumens) > and > > K > > > (Kelvin) > > > > rating. See > > > > > > > below. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > NOTE - > below > > links > > > are > > > > for > > > > > > > > example/informational > > > > > > > > > purposes only, as > I > > > > > > > > > > > know > nothing > > about > > > the > > > > sites. God... > > > > > > > did I > > > > > > > > just > > > > > > > > > say that? Do I > really > > > > > > > > > > > have to > add > > > disclaimers > > > > to my posts > > > > > > > now? LOL > > > > > > > > Just > > > > > > > > > laughing at > myself. > > > > > > > > > > > LOL > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > This may > be > > your > > > > Sylvania bulb... > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > http://www.lightbulbemporium.com/proddetail.asp?prod=F40/EX50 > > > > > > > > > <http://www.lightbulbemporium.com/proddetail.asp?prod=F40/EX50> > > > > > > <http://www.lightbulbemporium.com/proddetail.asp?prod=F40/EX50 > > > > > > > > > <http://www.lightbulbemporium.com/proddetail.asp?prod=F40/EX50>> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > <http://www.lightbulbemporium.com/proddetail.asp?prod=F40/EX50 > > > > > > > > > <http://www.lightbulbemporium.com/proddetail.asp?prod=F40/EX50> > > > > > > <http://www.lightbulbemporium.com/proddetail.asp?prod=F40/EX50 > > > > > > > > > <http://www.lightbulbemporium.com/proddetail.asp?prod=F40/EX50>>> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > <http://www.lightbulbemporium.com/proddetail.asp?prod=F40/EX50 > > > > > > > > > <http://www.lightbulbemporium.com/proddetail.asp?prod=F40/EX50> > > > > > > <http://www.lightbulbemporium.com/proddetail.asp?prod=F40/EX50 > > > > > > > > > <http://www.lightbulbemporium.com/proddetail.asp?prod=F40/EX50>> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > <http://www.lightbulbemporium.com/proddetail.asp?prod=F40/EX50 > > > > > > > > > <http://www.lightbulbemporium.com/proddetail.asp?prod=F40/EX50> > > > > > > <http://www.lightbulbemporium.com/proddetail.asp?prod=F40/EX50 > > > > > > > > > <http://www.lightbulbemporium.com/proddetail.asp?prod=F40/EX50>>>> > > > > > > > > > and if > > > > > > > > > > > it is, > then > > it's > > > the > > > > same ratings as > > > > > > > the > > > > > > > > specs in > > > > > > > > > the T-10 bulb that > I > > > > > > > > > > > > copy/pasted > > below, > > > which > > > > is a pretty > > > > > > > good > > > > > > > > bulb > > > > > > > > > with higher lumens > and > > > > > > > > > > > the > higher K > > > rating, > > > > although not a > > > > > > > 6500K > > > > > > > > rated > > > > > > > > > bulb. At the bottom > of > > > > > > > > > > > this > page, > > there > > > was a > > > > link to this > > > > > > > bulb... > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > http://www.lightbulbemporium.com/maxlite_51204_ml_f40t10_850_rscg.as > > > > > > > > > > <http://www.lightbulbemporium.com/maxlite_51204_ml_f40t10_850_rscg.as> > > > > > > > > > > > > <http://www.lightbulbemporium.com/maxlite_51204_ml_f40t10_850_rscg.as > > > > > > > > > > > <http://www.lightbulbemporium.com/maxlite_51204_ml_f40t10_850_rscg.as>> > > > > > > > > > > p > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > <http://www.lightbulbemporium.com/maxlite_51204_ml_f40t10_850_rscg.a > > > > > > > > > > <http://www.lightbulbemporium.com/maxlite_51204_ml_f40t10_850_rscg.a> > > > > > > > <http://www.lightbulbemporium.com/maxlite_51204_ml_f40t10_850_rscg.a > > > > > > > > > > <http://www.lightbulbemporium.com/maxlite_51204_ml_f40t10_850_rscg.a>> > > > > > > > > > > sp> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > <http://www.lightbulbemporium.com/maxlite_51204_ml_f40t10_850_rscg.a > > > > > > > > > > <http://www.lightbulbemporium.com/maxlite_51204_ml_f40t10_850_rscg.a> > > > > > > > <http://www.lightbulbemporium.com/maxlite_51204_ml_f40t10_850_rscg.a > > > > > > > > > > <http://www.lightbulbemporium.com/maxlite_51204_ml_f40t10_850_rscg.a>> > > > > > > > > > > sp > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > <http://www.lightbulbemporium.com/maxlite_51204_ml_f40t10_850_rscg.a > > > > > > > > > > <http://www.lightbulbemporium.com/maxlite_51204_ml_f40t10_850_rscg.a> > > > > > > > <http://www.lightbulbemporium.com/maxlite_51204_ml_f40t10_850_rscg.a > > > > > > > > > > <http://www.lightbulbemporium.com/maxlite_51204_ml_f40t10_850_rscg.a>> > > > > > > > > > > sp> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > which > > > > > > > > > > > has an > even > > higher > > > lumen > > > > rating of > > > > > > > 3700, > > > > > > > > although > > > > > > > > > not much higher > than > > > > > > > > > > > the 3550 > > rating > > > but > > > > ever<br/><br/>(Message over 64 KB, truncated)

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 44473	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 11/12/2009
Subject: Re: wisteria/lighting previous question/response revisited

OK. I did a Google and DFS showed up near the top for an All-Glass fluorescent bulb and here's the page and low and behold, they have a 24" 17W bulb listed... BUT this bulb was not showing up on any previous searches on DFS. http://www.drsfostersmith.com/product/prod_display.cfm?pcatid=12850 BUT.... and it's a BIG BUT... (all the way up in the "Bertha" category ;-) *) According to that page, it's a T-8 bulb... NOT a T-4 bulb. Are you confusing radius with diameter? A 1" (T-8) diameter bulb would have a 1/2" radius so I want to make sure we're still on the right track. Unfortunately, according to the above page, it's an 8000K bulb and they do not list the lumens. If you do reach All-Glass, ask them about the lumens on that bulb and whether it's a T-8 or not. Or maybe if you double check your measuring, you'll find that it's a 1" diameter and a T-8 bulb. I'll be surprised if it is a T-4 bulb since I cannot find anything about a T-4 bulb matching your measurements or wattage. * BTW... who's now humming http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VlRXQEA0yj0 ? I know \\Steve// is! ;-) Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of bill 1433 Sent: Thursday, November 12, 2009 7:28 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: wisteria/lighting previous question/response revisited Hi Len, I wrote all of this before but with going back and fourth so many times its more that possible that you missed it. Yes, it's a 30" fixture that has one tube in it at 24" or exactly measurements are 23" end piece or band to end piece, the tube over-all measure's 23 7/8 from pin edge to pin edge. Now all that being said it is stamped or printed at 17 Watts from All-Glass and the final piece of the puzzle and probably why none of us can find any information is what else is stamped or printed on the tube: "Made In Germany"! Again, I think we are on "middle ground" with the 23 7/8. It could very well be that it is also the 22 5/16 again the "where" and whose is doing the measuring that counts. Giving all of this a lot of thought and the aggravation of it all, which is now reaching critical mass, I did today come one with one lone constructive thought. How about if I try to give All-Glass a phone call and find out just exactly what if any tubes can be used with this fixture? I thought originally to try taking it apart and getting an "eyeball" on the ballast but to do so could risk damage to the unit as it is stamped or put together in spots with those flimsy plastic tabs and I really don't want to risk the damage to the unit. Next order of business, find a phone number for these folks! Bill --- On Thu, 11/12/09, Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@...> wrote: > From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@...> > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: wisteria/lighting previous question/response revisited > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Date: Thursday, November 12, 2009, 5:04 PM > Can you show me a link to a T-4, 17W > bulb?  I haven't found a single one in > all the reading that I've been doing.  Remind me how > long your bulbs are > again?  I scrolled down looking and didn't see an > exact answer.  In looking > at your link to DFS about your fixture, I see that for the > 29G/20G, it's 30" > long with the 24" bulbs but I wanted to be sure since every > site I look at > for T-4's, they do not come in 17W or 24" length so I'm > still thinking > something is wrong with your calculations or the reading of > the specs/calcs > that you do have. > > Here are three different sites with their lists of T-4 > bulbs and as you can > see, there are NO 17W bulbs and no 24" bulbs. > > http://www.lightbulbsdirect.com/page/001/CTGY/T4 > http://www.buylighting.com/T4-Fluorescent-s/102.htm > http://www.servicelighting.com/T4-Straight-Linear-Fluorescent-Light-Bulbs > > The closest that T-4's come are 20.5" or 22-5/16" with only > one type/brand > having the 22-5/16" bulb as a specialty bulb and all of the > other T-4's are > 20.5" and then jump up to 33 7/8" or 33.9" depending on the > site. > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed > on the right > side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives > by Year, Month) > > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] > On > Behalf Of bill 1433 > Sent: Thursday, November 12, 2009 3:27 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: wisteria/lighting previous > question/response > revisited > > Hi Len, > > Like I said, they are a 1/2" but so far all I can find > around here > are "cool white" and "warm light" bulbs. > > Bill > > --- On Thu, 11/12/09, Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@...> > wrote: > > > From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@...> > > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: wisteria/lighting > previous > question/response revisited > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > Date: Thursday, November 12, 2009, 3:48 PM > > Bulb diameter is easy.  Take the > > bulb and place it over a ruler/tape > > measurer and look straight down on it.  It should be > > easy to discern between > > 1/2" (T-4) and 1" (T-8) and the T-5 (5/8") uses a > > completely different > > single pin on each end so that would eliminate that > > bulb.  Or better yet.. > > take your bulb to the WalMart and compare apples to > apples > > and you'll then > > know exactly what you have and also be able to see > what > > your local WalMart > > offers as far as better bulbs.  You can probably get > > much more lighting with > > a new $5.00 to $10.00 bulb. > > > > Then Santa can still bring you the bigger tank and > > accessories and your > > other tanks will also be far more functional in case > you > > choose to sell them > > or just have more tanks.  As far as selling your > > unused stuff, > > CraigsList.org is free and you can renew the ad every > week > > until you find > > the right buyer who is willing to pay the best price > you > > can get. > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > > (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are > listed > > on the right > > side, alphabetically under Labels and also under > Archives > > by Year, Month) > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] > > On > > Behalf Of bill 1433 > > Sent: Thursday, November 12, 2009 2:27 PM > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: wisteria/lighting > previous > > question/response > > revisited > > > > Bulb Diameter Len, and now you see my problem.  I > > haven't found any either. > > Also reading and studying all that you have sent me so > far > > I come away from > > all of this with one single thought, is it worth > it?  > > > > > > With all this being said and it so close to the time > for a > > visit from > > "Santa", I'm wondering if I should not put all you > have > > taught me to better > > use by just getting something like a standard > 55-gallon > > tank!  These lights > > do cost a bit but there is not a huge different > between > > size vs. cost from a > > 29 to a 55.  Then to is the issue of what to do with > > the plastic covers I > > already have should I go to the all glass covers. > > > > Sell them, sure but to whom?  Remember, I'm the guy > > that has a hard time > > just trying to find a place to buy fish around here, > there > > just aren't that > > many places or people.  No matter what I do, I > promise > > to keep you posted. > > > > Thanks for all you've taught and helped me with, > > > > Bill > > > > > > --- On Thu, 11/12/09, Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@...> > > wrote: > > > > > From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@...> > > > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: wisteria/lighting > > previous > > question/response revisited > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > > Date: Thursday, November 12, 2009, 2:42 PM > > > Once again Bill.... you need to get > > > away from the "Watts" mindset.  It's > > > just not applicable with the wide array of bulbs > > available > > > nowadays.  That > > > link goes to a CFL light strip and 65 watts of > CFL > > lighting > > > is a LOT, LOT, > > > LOT (3 LOTS) more lighting than 65 watts of an > > incandescent > > > bulb and a LOT, > > > LOT (2 LOTS) more lighting than a 65W normal > > fluorescent > > > bulb.  This would > > > probably increase your lighting by 10X's over > what you > > have > > > now.  If you > > > just went with 20W (range) CFL's, you'd get > 2-3X's > > more > > > light than you > > > currently have.  > > > > > > You still need to do some more research on your > > current > > > bulbs to find out > > > the specs on them.  Without knowing your > current > > > specs, it's difficult to > > > know how much more lighting you might want/need. > > > > > > Since you got your fixture and bulbs from DFS, I > just > > did a > > > search of '17 > > > watt fluorescent' and four bulbs came up.. one > was a > > CFL so > > > that wasn't it > > > and the other three are below BUT none of them > are > > T-4's... > > > in fact, so far, > > > I have not been able to find a T-4, 17W bulb > > > anywhere.  What are you > > > measuring to come up with the 1/2" figure?  > Bulb > > > diameter, pin separation or > > > other??? > > > > > > http://www.drsfostersmith.com/product/prod_display.cfm?pcatid=3787 > > > (24", > > > T-8, 5500K, nothing for lumens) > > > > > > http://www.drsfostersmith.com/product/prod_display.cfm?pcatid=4491 > > > (24", > > > T-8, Actinic 420nm, nothing for lumens) > > > > > > http://www.drsfostersmith.com/product/prod_display.cfm?pcatid=4489 > > > (24", > > > T-8, 6500K, nothing for lumens) > > > > > > You need to take your bulb out and go to a local > > lighting > > > store (department) > > > or even the Walmart and see if they can give you > more > > info > > > on it or at least > > > you might find identical sized bulbs that do > have > > specs on > > > them so you can > > > be more informed about what you have. > > > > > > While I was at the DFS site, and since you > previously > > > mentioned that you > > > have an All-Glass hood that came with the one > bulb > > light > > > strip, I did a > > > search on DFS for 'All-Glass light' and found > this > > link for > > > the only single > > > bulb light strip that All-Glass has on DFS' > site. > > > > > > http://www.drsfostersmith.com/product/prod_display.cfm?pcatid=3793 > > > > > > It comes in 16" or 20" lengths.  There's a link > to > > > "View compatible Bulbs" > > > in the Description tab, which brings up a page > of > > bulbs and > > > ALL of the ones > > > compatible for the 20" strip are T-8 bulbs.  > There > > are > > > a couple of dozen > > > bulbs listed so I didn't go through them and > > unfortunately, > > > they do NOT list > > > the wattage on that list so I wasn't able to find > any > > 17W > > > bulbs without > > > checking a bunch of links.  Since it was an > > All-Glass > > > fixture, I did click > > > on the first All-Glass brand bulb which brought > up > > this > > > page... > > > > > > http://www.drsfostersmith.com/product/prod_display.cfm?pcatid=12850 > > > > > > And you will see that there is either an 18", 15W > bulb > > or a > > > 24", 17W bulb, > > > as well as others... and these are the 8000K > bulbs > > which > > > were listed in the > > > description on the website link that you posted > > earlier > > > BUT.. these are ALL > > > T-8 bulbs, not T-4's so we're back to that spec > issue > > > again.  This page does > > > call them 8000K Daylight, Full Spectrum bulbs so > maybe > > they > > > are OK but I > > > wish that the DFS site would list lumens since > that is > > a > > > critical, > > > need-to-know piece of information that is > missing.  > > As > > > seen in my previous > > > posts, the same sized bulbs can have a lumen > output > > that is > > > 50% to 100% > > > higher than a comparable bulb of the same size... > and > > that > > > makes a HUGE > > > difference in lighting. > > > > > > Once again, take the bulb to your WalMart and > compare > > > apples to apples and > > > find out exactly what size bulb you have and > while > > there, > > > look at other > > > identical sized bulbs and look for the highest > lumens > > in > > > the 5000K to 6500K > > > range, buy one and bring it home and see if it's > a > > LOT > > > brighter than what > > > you now have.  If so, that might do the trick. > > > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > > > (Links to any articles referenced in above reply > are > > listed > > > on the right > > > side, alphabetically under Labels and also under > > Archives > > > by Year, Month) > > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] > > > On > > > Behalf Of bill 1433 > > > Sent: Thursday, November 12, 2009 12:12 PM > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: wisteria/lighting > > previous > > > question/response > > > revisited > > > > > > Hi Amber, > > > > > > The links Len provided are very close BUT it's > the > > ends of > > > the tube or pins > > > that worry me.  They are very close but "how"? > > > > > > Meaning this buying the tube, ok by mail?  Now > what > > if > > > it doesn't work? > > > Rreturn a $10.00 tube the postage would cost > more.  > > > I'm trying to work > > > backward now from Len's link, and get a > manufacture so > > I > > > can buy around > > > here.  Also I'm getting made enough now to > scrape > > the > > > whole thing and just > > > get a new All-Glass cover then maybe one of > these: > > > > > > > > > > > > http://www.drsfostersmith.com/product/prod_display.cfm?c=3578+3733+9654+9871 > > > &pcatid=9871 > > > > > > This link is not pointing to the exact Coralife > > product I > > > want at Doctors > > > its # apn-16981, if you have their catalog but I > can't > > make > > > it come up on > > > search at their site.  It is a single rated at > 65 > > > watts and is 24". > > > > > > Bill > > > --- On Thu, 11/12/09, Amber Berglund <arberglund@...> > > > wrote: > > > > > > > From: Amber Berglund <arberglund@...> > > > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: > wisteria/lighting > > > previous > > > question/response revisited > > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > > > Date: Thursday, November 12, 2009, 12:59 PM > > > > Bill does have T-4's if I remember > > > > correctly, maybe one of those 20watt > > > > bulbs will work for him and provide more > lumens > > than > > > his > > > > current bulbs do. > > > > Did you check those links out Bill? ;) > > > > > > > > Amber > > > > > > > > Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > > > > > > > > > > Just because a fixture currently has a > T-8 > > or > > > T-10, > > > > does not mean it > > > > > cannot > > > > > use a T-12, and vice versa. They are > all > > medium > > > bi-pin > > > > bulbs, meaning they > > > > > all will fit and work UNLESS the > reflector > > is so > > > tight > > > > that a T-12 cannot > > > > > fit inside the fixture but I haven't > seen > > this as > > > a > > > > problem in the past. > > > > > Usually, going with a T-8 or T-10, > instead > > of a > > > T-12 > > > > will give more lumens > > > > > but in the case of this particular > sized > > bulb, > > > the > > > > T-12 may be the better > > > > > option. Of course, we still need more > > details on > > > > Bill's exact bulb. We > > > > > still do not know anything except that > it's > > 17 > > > > watts... nothing about > > > > > lumens, K rating or anything else for > > comparison > > > > purposes. As Johnny 5 > > > > > once > > > > > said... "Need more input!" (I have no > clue > > why > > > that > > > > OLD movie line popped > > > > > into my head and I can't blame it on > drugs > > since > > > I > > > > didn't/don't do them... > > > > > and as far as I know, beer doesn't > cause > > acid > > > > flashbacks. LOL > > > > > http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Short_Circuit > > > > > <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Short_Circuit>) > > > > > > > > > > Now... thinking back a little. Bill > may > > have > > > T-4's and > > > > if he does, those > > > > > use the miniature bi-pin base and the > above > > > larger > > > > T-#'s with medium > > > > > bi-pin > > > > > base would not work. If this is the > case, > > there > > > are > > > > other options > > > > > listed on > > > > > this page... > > > > > > > > > http://www.servicelighting.com/T4-Straight-Linear-Fluorescent-Light-Bulbs > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > <http://www.servicelighting.com/T4-Straight-Linear-Fluorescent-Light-Bulbs> > > > > > including this 20W, 6400K, 1340 Lumens > bulb > > - > > > > > > > > > > > http://www.servicelighting.com/Bulbrite-85220-F20T4-64K-F20T4-D-T4-Straight- > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > <http://www.servicelighting.com/Bulbrite-85220-F20T4-64K-F20T4-D-T4-Straight > > > -> > > > > > Linear-Fluorescent-Light-Bulb, which > sounds > > like > > > a > > > > pretty good bulb > > > > > from the > > > > > specs and actually provides more lumens > than > > any > > > of > > > > the T-12's previously > > > > > listed. > > > > > > > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > > > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > > > (Links to any articles referenced in > above > > reply > > > are > > > > listed on the right > > > > > side, alphabetically under Labels and > also > > under > > > > Archives by Year, Month) > > > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > > > > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > > > > > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On > > > > > Behalf Of Amber Berglund > > > > > Sent: Thursday, November 12, 2009 10:29 > AM > > > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: > > wisteria/lighting > > > > previous > > > > > question/response > > > > > revisited > > > > > > > > > > Bill has smaller bulbs, I think they > are not > > easy > > > to > > > > find in a higher > > > > > wattage output, which is what he was > looking > > for > > > a few > > > > months back. > > > > > > > > > > Amber > > > > > > > > > > Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > I don't know what you mean by > this. > > Please > > > > elaborate. What size tube? > > > > > > I posted about several different > bulbs > > but > > > all > > > > were T-12's, which is > > > > > > one of the most common sizes. > > > > > > > > > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > > > > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > > > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>> > > > > > (Links to any articles referenced in > > > > > > above reply are listed on the > right > > side, > > > > alphabetically under Labels > > > > > > and also under Archives by Year, > > Month) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > > > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > > > > > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On > > > > Behalf Of bill 1433 > > > > > > Sent: Thursday, November 12, 2009 > 8:59 > > AM > > > > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > > > > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: > > > wisteria/lighting > > > > previous > > > > > > question/response revisited > > > > > > > > > > > > Yes Len, > > > > > > > > > > > > But its finding that size tube > with > > more of > > > > anything that's the problem. > > > > > > > > > > > > Bill > > > > > > > > > > > > --- On Wed, 11/11/09, Lenny V. > aka > > > GoldLenny > > > > <GoldLenny@... > > > > > > > > > <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com> > > > > > > > > <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com>> > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny > > <GoldLenny@... > > > > > > > > > <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com> > > > > > > > > <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com>> > > > > > > > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] > Re: > > > > wisteria/lighting previous > > > > > > > question/response revisited > > > > > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > > > > > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > Date: Wednesday, November > 11, > > 2009, > > > 5:22 PM > > > > Well, if you only have > > > > > > > 17W, then you could > definitely do > > > better > > > > with the 20W, higher lumen, > > > > > > > better K rating bulbs that I > > > mentioned. > > > > Considering the lumen > > > > > > > ratings of fluorescent bulbs > I've > > > looked at, > > > > your 17W bulbs might > > > > > > > only have 500-700 lumens > where the > > BEST > > > 20W > > > > bulb (below) has > > > > > > > 1075 lumens so you > > > > > > > could possibly increase your > > lighting > > > by 50% > > > > to 100% just by > > > > > > > changing to that bulb. At > least, > > with > > > that > > > > bulb, you'll be in the > > > > > > > low-light range for plants on > the > > 20G > > > but > > > > the 29G will need some work. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Of course, you should find > out > > what > > > the > > > > lumens and K ratings are on > > > > > > > the bulbs you have so you'll > know > > if > > > you are > > > > getting a small jump or > > > > > > > a BIG jump in lighting just > by > > changing > > > your > > > > bulbs. Check your local > > > > > > > WalMart for bulbs. My nearby > > WalMart > > > > SuperCenter has a really big > > > > > > > assortment of fluorescent > tubes > > and > > > they > > > > were cheaper than the Home > > > > > > > Depot. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Something else I'm thinking > about > > for > > > you is > > > > going with 18" > > > > > > > light-sticks on > > > > > > > each end of your 29G tank or > front > > or > > > back > > > > (back would hide it best > > > > > > > but you decide your best > > aesthetics) > > > and > > > > you'd have to make a DIY > > > > > > > reflector for it (white > poster > > board > > > and > > > > scotch tape would work) and > > > > > > > that would get more lighting > down > > to > > > the > > > > bottom level plants in the > > > > > > > 29G. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > > > > > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > > > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>> > > > > > (Links to any articles > > > > > > > referenced in above reply > are > > listed on > > > the > > > > right side, > > > > > > > alphabetically under Labels > and > > also > > > under > > > > Archives by Year, Month) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > > > > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > > > > > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > > > > > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] > > > > > > > On > > > > > > > Behalf Of bill 1433 > > > > > > > Sent: Wednesday, November 11, > 2009 > > 3:42 > > > PM > > > > > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > > > > > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] > Re: > > > > wisteria/lighting previous > > > > > > > question/response revisited > > > > > > > > > > > > > > It is what it is type of > thing > > Len. > > > Site > > > > says one thing but stamped > > > > > > > or printed right on the tube > is at > > 17 > > > > watts. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Bill > > > > > > > > > > > > > > --- On Wed, 11/11/09, Lenny > V. > > aka > > > GoldLenny > > > > <GoldLenny@... > > > > > > > > > <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com> > > > > > > > > <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com>> > > > > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > From: Lenny V. aka > GoldLenny > > > <GoldLenny@... > > > > > > > > > <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com> > > > > > > > > <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com>> > > > > > > > > Subject: RE: > [AquaticLife] > > Re: > > > > wisteria/lighting > > > > > > > previous > > > > > > > > question/response > revisited > > > > > > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > > > > > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > > Date: Wednesday, > November > > 11, > > > 2009, > > > > 2:16 PM The > > > > > > > problem might be this > > > > > > > > statement in the > > description... > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > "... Hoods include > 8000ºK > > > bulb... > > > > ...20W, 24"..." > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > That's getting into the > > higher > > > > green/blue Kelvin > > > > > > > range... > > > > > > > > closer to the > > > > > > > > 10,000K actinic type > bulbs... > > than > > > the > > > > 5000K to 6500K > > > > > > > "Daylight" bulbs > > > > > > > > that provide full > spectrum > > > lighting. > > > > It's also only > > > > > > > a 20W bulb > > > > > > > > (according to the DFS > site, > > > although > > > > you stated it was > > > > > > > only 17W so > > > > > > > > double check this) so > it's > > only > > > 1WPG on > > > > the 20G and > > > > > > > only 0.69WPG on > > > > > > > > the 29G. Of course, if > the > > bulb > > > puts > > > > out a LOT more > > > > > > > lumens (you would > > > > > > > > have to do more checking > up > > on the > > > bulb > > > > to find this), > > > > > > > that would help > > > > > > > > a little but not much. > I > > think you > > > need > > > > at least > > > > > > > 1WPG to have success > > > > > > > > with low-light plants, > > although > > > > floating plants like > > > > > > > Anacharis, > > > > > > > > Hornwort, Duckweed, > etc., > > would be > > > up > > > > close to the > > > > > > > light and benefit > > > > > > > > from CO2 from the air > and > > would do > > > OK > > > > with your > > > > > > > lighting... but then > > > > > > > > they would also block > out > > the > > > lighting > > > > to the rest of > > > > > > > the tank. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I don't see a lot of > options, > > as > > > far as > > > > T-8 bulbs are > > > > > > > concerned for > > > > > > > > this size fixture but I > see a > > few > > > > different T-12's... > > > > > > > such as... > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > (My rating is: GOOD - > but > > see > > > BETTER > > > > and BEST options > > > > > > > below... at > > > > > > > > least as far as the > bulbs on > > this > > > site > > > > are concerned) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > http://www.servicelighting.com/Sylvania-22119-F20T12-DSGN50-T12-Straig > > > > > > > > > > > <http://www.servicelighting.com/Sylvania-22119-F20T12-DSGN50-T12-Straig> > > > > > > > > > > > > <http://www.servicelighting.com/Sylvania-22119-F20T12-DSGN50-T12-Strai > > > > > > > > > > > <http://www.servicelighting.com/Sylvania-22119-F20T12-DSGN50-T12-Strai> > > > > > > g> > > > > > > > > ht-Lin > > > > > > > > > ear-Fluorescent-Light-Bulb > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Light Output: 880 > lumens > > > > > > > > Refers to the literal > measure > > of > > > the > > > > light-output of a > > > > > > > particular > > > > > > > > light bulb, measured in > the > > number > > > of > > > > lumens. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Energy Used: 20 watts > > > > > > > > "Watts" is the term > applied > > to > > > the > > > > amount of energy > > > > > > > required and used > > > > > > > > by a particular light > bulb. > > It is > > > an > > > > international > > > > > > > system unit of > > > > > > > > power equal to one joule > per > > > second. > > > > Contrary to > > > > > > > popular belief, the > > > > > > > > wattage of a bulb does > not > > > directly > > > > measure the > > > > > > > brightness; the > > > > > > > > "lumens" of a light is > what > > > defines the > > > > actual light > > > > > > > output. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Average Lifetime: 9,000 > > hours > > > > > > > > This refers to an > average > > > lifetime > > > > rating based on > > > > > > > large quantities in > > > > > > > > test groups. This > testing > > takes > > > into > > > > account usage of > > > > > > > 3 hours per > > > > > > > > start for fluorescent > lamps > > and > > > 10 > > > > hours per start for > > > > > > > HID lamps. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Bulb Type: T12 > > > > > > > > The "Bulb Type" is > typically > > a > > > > combination of the > > > > > > > style of bulb as > > > > > > > > well as the width of > the > > bulb. > > > Usually, > > > > the first > > > > > > > couple letters will > > > > > > > > indicate the type; "G" > would > > > indicate > > > > "Globe", "PAR" > > > > > > > would indicate > > > > > > > > "Parabolic Reflector"... > The > > > numbers > > > > indicate the > > > > > > > diameter of the > > > > > > > > light bulb in eighths of > an > > inch; > > > a > > > > "G40" would be a > > > > > > > "Globe" style > > > > > > > > that is "5 inches" in > > diameter. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Base Type: Medium > Bi-Pin > > > > > > > > The "Base" of a light > bulb is > > the > > > part > > > > that either > > > > > > > screws or snaps > > > > > > > > into a receptacle. Base > Type > > > > terminology may indicate > > > > > > > common > > > > > > > > descriptive words like > > "Medium" > > > or > > > > "Candelabra", or > > > > > > > may even contain > > > > > > > > numeric codes that > signify > > size > > > and > > > > variety, like > > > > > > > "E26" or "2GX13". > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Color Temperature: > 5,000K > > > > > > > > Correlated Color > Temperature > > (CCT) > > > is a > > > > specification > > > > > > > of the color > > > > > > > > appearance of a lamp, > > relating > > > its > > > > color to that of a > > > > > > > reference source > > > > > > > > heated to a particular > > > temperature, > > > > measured in > > > > > > > degrees Kelvin (K). It > > > > > > > > generally measures the > > "warmth" > > > or > > > > "coolness" of light > > > > > > > source > > > > > > > > appearance. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > CRI: 90 > > > > > > > > CRI refers to the > "Color > > > Rendering > > > > Index" of a light > > > > > > > bulb. > > > > > > > > CRI measures a > > > > > > > > light source and grades > its > > > ability to > > > > render the > > > > > > > color of objects > > > > > > > > "correctly," as compared > with > > a > > > > reference source with > > > > > > > comparable color > > > > > > > > temperature. 100 is > perfect > > > rendering. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Length: 24 inches > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > (BETTER - slightly > higher > > lumens > > > and > > > > higher 6500K > > > > > > > rating) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > http://www.servicelighting.com/Westinghouse-36516-F20T12-FS-T12-Straig > > > > > > > > > > > <http://www.servicelighting.com/Westinghouse-36516-F20T12-FS-T12-Straig> > > > > > > > > > > > > <http://www.servicelighting.com/Westinghouse-36516-F20T12-FS-T12-Strai > > > > > > > > > > > <http://www.servicelighting.com/Westinghouse-36516-F20T12-FS-T12-Strai> > > > > > > g> > > > > > > > > ht-Lin > > > > > > > > > ear-Fluorescent-Light-Bulb > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Light Output: 900 > lumens > > > > > > > > Energy Used: 20 watts > > > > > > > > Average Lifetime: > 10,000 > > hours > > > > > > > > Bulb Type: T12 > > > > > > > > Base Type: Medium > Bi-Pin > > > > > > > > Color Temperature: > 6,500K > > > > > > > > CRI: 90 > > > > > > > > Length: 24 inches > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > (BEST, of these three - > > around > > > 20% > > > > higher lumens and > > > > > > > good 6,500K > > > > > > > > rating, although it does > have > > a > > > lower > > > > CRI rating.. but > > > > > > > still > > > > > > > > passing) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > http://www.servicelighting.com/Sylvania-22083-F20T12-D-T12-Straight-Li > > > > > > > > > > > <http://www.servicelighting.com/Sylvania-22083-F20T12-D-T12-Straight-Li> > > > > > > > > > > > > <http://www.servicelighting.com/Sylvania-22083-F20T12-D-T12-Straight-L > > > > > > > > > > > <http://www.servicelighting.com/Sylvania-22083-F20T12-D-T12-Straight-L> > > > > > > i> > > > > > > > > near-F > > > > > > > > luorescent-Light-Bulb > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Light Output: 1,075 > lumens > > > > > > > > Energy Used: 20 watts > > > > > > > > Average Lifetime: 9,000 > > hours > > > > > > > > Bulb Type: T12 > > > > > > > > Base Type: Medium > Bi-Pin > > > > > > > > Color Temperature: > 6,500K > > > > > > > > CRI: 76 > > > > > > > > Length: 24 inches > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Compare the above three > to > > what is > > > sold > > > > as a > > > > > > > plant/aquarium light by > > > > > > > > the same company, which > has > > a > > > lower > > > > lumens, MUCH lower > > > > > > > CRI rating and > > > > > > > > does not list the K > rating > > other > > > than > > > > to say "Plant" > > > > > > > which is a > > > > > > > > subjective rating > established > > by > > > the > > > > manufacturer. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > (WORST) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > http://www.servicelighting.com/Westinghouse-36411-F20T12-PL-T12-Straig > > > > > > > > > > > <http://www.servicelighting.com/Westinghouse-36411-F20T12-PL-T12-Straig> > > > > > > > > > > > > <http://www.servicelighting.com/Westinghouse-36411-F20T12-PL-T12-Strai > > > > > > > > > > > <http://www.servicelighting.com/Westinghouse-36411-F20T12-PL-T12-Strai> > > > > > > g> > > > > > > > > ht-Lin > > > > > > > > > ear-Fluorescent-Light-Bulb > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Light Output: 700 > lumens > > (over 30% > > > less > > > > lighting > > > > > > > than the 1,075 > > > > > > > > lumens bulb > > > > > > > > above) > > > > > > > > Energy Used: 20 watts > > > > > > > > Average Lifetime: > 10,000 > > hours > > > > > > > > Bulb Type: T12 > > > > > > > > Base Type: Medium > Bi-Pin > > > > > > > > Color: Plant > > > > > > > > CRI: 61 > > > > > > > > Length: 24 inches > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > If any of the above > have > > much > > > better > > > > lumens than your > > > > > > > current > > > > > > > > lighting... > > > > > > > > and they all have better > K > > > ratings, > > > > then any of them > > > > > > > would be better > > > > > > > > for you... but you > would > > still be > > > stuck > > > > with only 20 > > > > > > > watts but it's > > > > > > > > the LUMENS and K rating > that > > count > > > more > > > > than watts. > > > > > > > You need to find > > > > > > > > out the lumens on your > bulb. > > Try > > > to > > > > find it on the > > > > > > > DFS site and let > > > > > > > > us know. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > You should look at the > > > AHSupply.com > > > > place for a > > > > > > > retrofit kit so you > > > > > > > > can use CFL's in your > > current > > > hood. > > > > That would > > > > > > > probably be your least > > > > > > > > expensive option. I know > you > > don't > > > like > > > > electricity > > > > > > > but I'm sure you > > > > > > > > know someone that could > do > > this > > > for > > > > you... on the > > > > > > > cheap... or over a > > > > > > > > 6-pack. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > > > > > > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > > > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>> > > > > > (Links to > > > > > > > any articles > > > > > > > > referenced in above > reply > > are > > > listed on > > > > the right > > > > > > > side, alphabetically > > > > > > > > under Labels and also > under > > > Archives by > > > > Year, Month) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -----Original > Message----- > > > > > > > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > > > > > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > > > > > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] > > > > > > > > On > > > > > > > > Behalf Of bill 1433 > > > > > > > > Sent: Wednesday, > November 11, > > 2009 > > > 9:33 > > > > AM > > > > > > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > > > > > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > > Subject: RE: > [AquaticLife] > > Re: > > > > wisteria/lighting > > > > > > > previous > > > > > > > > question/response > > > > > > > > revisited > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Hi \\Steve// > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > At this point, and also > to > > refresh > > > your > > > > mind, and > > > > > > > anyone > > > > > > > > else on the group > > > > > > > > that may have interest. > This > > all > > > got > > > > started with > > > > > > > my > > > > > > > > search for a tube that > > > > > > > > would allow me more > light > > output > > > from > > > > an All Glass > > > > > > > Plastic > > > > > > > > hood and light. > > > > > > > > This unit comes with a > "color > > type > > > tube > > > > at 17 watts > > > > > > > that is > > > > > > > > only 24 inches > > > > > > > > long. This is for a > > 20/29-gallon > > > tank. > > > > I was stupid enough to buy > > > > > > > > two of them, one for > each > > tank. > > > For > > > > further inspection > > > > > > > here > > > > > > > > is the light: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > http://www.drsfostersmith.com/product/prod_display.cfm?pcatid=13447 > > > > > > > > > > <http://www.drsfostersmith.com/product/prod_display.cfm?pcatid=13447> > > > > > > > <http://www.drsfostersmith.com/product/prod_display.cfm?pcatid=13447 > > > > > > > > > > <http://www.drsfostersmith.com/product/prod_display.cfm?pcatid=13447>> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > For those that would > like to > > > aggravate > > > > themselves > > > > > > > further, > > > > > > > > I can also state > > > > > > > > that these hoods are > very > > > conducive to > > > > growing Black Algae! > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Summoning up, I should > have > > only > > > > purchased an > > > > > > > All-Glass > > > > > > > > cover and then > > > > > > > > probably a double tube > light > > of > > > > sufficient wattage to > > > > > > > bring > > > > > > > > me up to the > > > > > > > > recommended 2 or 3 watts > per > > > gallon. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Ya live and learn, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Bill > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > --- On Tue, 11/10/09, > Steve > > Szabo > > > > <steve@... > > > > > > > > > <mailto:steve%40familyszabo.com> > > > > > > > > <mailto:steve%40familyszabo.com>> > > > > > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > From: Steve Szabo > <steve@... > > > > > > > > > <mailto:steve%40familyszabo.com> > > > > > > > > <mailto:steve%40familyszabo.com>> > > > > > > > > > Subject: RE: > > [AquaticLife] > > > Re: > > > > wisteria/lighting > > > > > > > > previous > > > > > > > > > question/response > > revisited > > > > > > > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > > > > > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > > > Date: Tuesday, > November > > 10, > > > 2009, > > > > 11:50 PM Bill, > > > > > > > you > > > > > > > > got it right! The > > > > > > > > > T numbers represent > the > > > diameter > > > > of the bulb in > > > > > > > 1/8" > > > > > > > > increments. A T4 > > > > > > > > > is a bulb 1/2" in > > diameter, > > > T5 is > > > > 5/8", t8 is > > > > > > > 1" and > > > > > > > > a t12 is 1 1/2". > > > > > > > > > As I recall, the F > is > > the > > > wattage > > > > of the bulb. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Lumens, not > usually > > stated on > > > the > > > > bulb is the > > > > > > > actual > > > > > > > > amount of light > > > > > > > > > coming from the > bulb. > > It > > > really > > > > does not have > > > > > > > anything > > > > > > > > to do with > > > > > > > > > watts, though more > watts > > will > > > give > > > > you more > > > > > > > lumens, > > > > > > > > but, also the > > > > > > > > > phosphors used in > the > > bulb > > > affect > > > > the amount of > > > > > > > lumen > > > > > > > > output. Lumens > > > > > > > > > and lux are often > used > > > > interchangeably, but they > > > > > > > are > > > > > > > > really different > > > > > > > > > measurements. Lux > is > > the > > > measure > > > > of illumination > > > > > > > over > > > > > > > > a given area. It > > > > > > > > > may actually be > more > > > important to > > > > aquarists > > > > > > > raising > > > > > > > > plants than the > > > > > > > > > lumen output. Lux > is > > what is > > > > measured by a light > > > > > > > > meter, for anyone who > > > > > > > > > happens to know > what > > they > > > are--not > > > > often seen > > > > > > > with > > > > > > > > today's cameras and > > > > > > > > > photographers. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Color temperature > is > > > important. > > > > Average daylight > > > > > > > > (except may in > > > > > > > > > Amber's area where > they > > have > > > 6 > > > > months of > > > > > > > darkness) has > > > > > > > > a color > > > > > > > > > temperature of > > 5500-6000. > > > > > > > > > An overcast day can > have > > a > > > color > > > > temperature of > > > > > > > 6500. > > > > > > > > As mentioned > > > > > > > > > earlier, plants > need > > light in > > > two > > > > color > > > > > > > spectrums, > > > > > > > > and, actually they > > > > > > > > > are rather narrow > spans > > of > > > > wavelengths they > > > > > > > benefit > > > > > > > > from. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I thought I had a > > bookmark > > > > explaining this, but > > > > > > > I > > > > > > > > can't find it > > > > > > > > > quickly (over 400K > of > > > bookmarks, > > > > and things have > > > > > > > a > > > > > > > > tendency to get > > > > > > > > > lost), however, > some > > > judicial > > > > Googling will gain > > > > > > > you > > > > > > > > the information. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > \\Steve// > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -----Original > > Message----- > > > > > > > > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > > > > > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > > > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > > > > > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] > > > > > > > > > On > > > > > > > > > Behalf Of bill > 1433 > > > > > > > > > Sent: Tuesday, > November > > 10, > > > 2009 > > > > 10:20 PM > > > > > > > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > > > > > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > > > Subject: Re: > > [AquaticLife] > > > Re: > > > > wisteria/lighting > > > > > > > > previous > > > > > > > > > question/response > > revisited > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Yes, Amber > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > It was I, looking > for > > the > > > original > > > > information > > > > > > > and > > > > > > > > also looked back on > > > > > > > > > \\Steve//'s post > at > > group to > > > try > > > > and find. Ray > > > > > > > had > > > > > > > > mentioned all this > > > > > > > > > the other day > saying > > that he > > > > thought the posting > > > > > > > came > > > > > > > > from \\Steve//. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I was not > successful in > > my > > > search. > > > > Also, for me > > > > > > > the > > > > > > > > most important > > > > > > > > > part was a link to > a > > chart > > > which > > > > showed you > > > > > > > exactly, > > > > > > > > or explained > > > > > > > > > exactly the "T" > > > > > > > > > factor stands for. > For > > > instance, > > > > T-4 would be a > > > > > > > tube > > > > > > > > that is a half > > > > > > > > > inch wide, or close > to > > > > it-----------I think. > > > > > > > All > > > > > > > > this is my own > > > > > > > > > fault. In my > interest > > to > > > acquire > > > > and learn > > > > > > > about > > > > > > > > lighting,I went > > > > > > > > > through and studied > the > > > applied > > > > links but being > > > > > > > > ol'bill, I never > > > > > > > > > bookmarked them. > > > > > > > > > Then to further > > > > > > > > > compound the > problem, I > > > deleted > > > > the original > > > > > > > message > > > > > > > > that it came > > > > > > > > > from. In hind-sight > you > > > could > > > > probably chalk > > > > > > > this > > > > > > > > all up to felonious > > > > > > > > > stupidity on my > part. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Bill---where its > always > > a > > > good day > > > > if I learn > > > > > > > > something new! > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > --- On Tue, > 11/10/09, > > Amber > > > > Berglund <arberglund@... > > > > > > > > > <mailto:arberglund%40gmail.com> > > > > > > > > <mailto:arberglund%40gmail.com>> > > > > > > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > From: Amber > Berglund > > <arberglund@... > > > > > > > > > <mailto:arberglund%40gmail.com> > > > > > > > > <mailto:arberglund%40gmail.com>> > > > > > > > > > Subject: Re: > > [AquaticLife] > > > Re: > > > > wisteria/lighting > > > > > > > > previous > > > > > > > > > question/response > > revisited > > > > > > > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > > > > > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > > > Date: Tuesday, > November > > 10, > > > 2009, > > > > 9:30 PM > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I believe it was > Steve > > who > > > posted > > > > a link about > > > > > > > lumens > > > > > > > > months back when > > > > > > > > > (I think it was > maybe > > Bill > > > asking) > > > > about lighting > > > > > > > for > > > > > > > > planted > > > > > > > > > aquariums. > > > > > > > > > Plants require 2 > > different > > > > spectrums of light to > > > > > > > > properly produce > > > > > > > > > either leaves or > flowers > > (red > > > is > > > > more for flower > > > > > > > > production and blue > > > > > > > > > is more for growth, > but > > for > > > the > > > > best growing you > > > > > > > want > > > > > > > > a mixture of > > > > > > > > > BOTH colors). > > > > > > > > > So in reality you > would > > want > > > a > > > > light that appears > > > > > > > more > > > > > > > > brown/reddish > > > > > > > > > in coloring and a > > blue/white > > > > coloring as well, > > > > > > > but > > > > > > > > they now have bulbs > > > > > > > > > that have BOTH > > spectrums > > > built in > > > > (I'm sure they > > > > > > > don't > > > > > > > > work as well as > > > > > > > > > it would to have 2 > > different > > > bulbs > > > > one mostly red > > > > > > > and > > > > > > > > the other mostly > > > > > > > > > blue on the color > > spectrum). > > > > > > > > > Let me see if I > still > > have > > > the > > > > link bookmarked. > > > > > > > > > What I was trying > to say > > is > > > that > > > > Kelvin does not > > > > > > > tell > > > > > > > > you what color > > > > > > > > > spectrum the light > > REALLY is, > > > it's > > > > actually > > > > > > > measuring > > > > > > > > it's light > > > > > > > > > output color > according > > to how > > > the > > > > human eyes > > > > > > > perceive > > > > > > > > it. So 6500 > > > > > > > > > kelvin in general > is > > what > > > most > > > > plants will > > > > > > > prefer > > > > > > > > because that is a > > > > > > > > > mixture of both red > and > > blue > > > > spectrums (In MOST > > > > > > > bulbs) > > > > > > > > unfortunately > > > > > > > > > not all light bulb > > > manufactures > > > > have to use the > > > > > > > exact > > > > > > > > same chart for > > > > > > > > > their colors, so > they > > will > > > have > > > > different colors > > > > > > > than > > > > > > > > another bulb > > > > > > > > > that says it's > 6500 > > Kelvin. > > > what > > > > you really need > > > > > > > to > > > > > > > > read is the color > > > > > > > > > chart on the box, > not > > what > > > lumens > > > > it says it is. > > > > > > > > > (still searching > for > > link, > > > LOL). > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > This isn't the > right > > link but > > > it > > > > discusses the > > > > > > > > kelvin/lumen problems a > > > > > > > > > little bit, still > > looking for > > > the > > > > link that > > > > > > > showed the > > > > > > > > charts and what > > > > > > > > > to look for in the > > color > > > charts. > > > > > > > > > > http://www.americanaquariumproducts.com/Aquarium_Lighting.html > > > > > > > > > <http://www.americanaquariumproducts.com/Aquarium_Lighting.html> > > > > > > <http://www.americanaquariumproducts.com/Aquarium_Lighting.html > > > > > > > > > <http://www.americanaquariumproducts.com/Aquarium_Lighting.html>> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Will post again > when I > > find > > > the > > > > other link with > > > > > > > chart > > > > > > > > examples. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Amber > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Lenny V. aka > GoldLenny > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I think it > would > > be > > > false > > > > advertising or > > > > > > > > possibly > > > > > > > > > mis-advertising > (if > > they > > > > > > > > > > do not know > any > > better) > > > if a > > > > company lists > > > > > > > their > > > > > > > > bulbs > > > > > > > > > as 6500K and they > > > > > > > > > > aren't. The > Kelvin > > > scale, > > > > just like Watts > > > > > > > and > > > > > > > > Lumens, > > > > > > > > > are ALL > > > > > > > > > > universal and > > > > > > > > > > > scientifically > > > measurable > > > > scales BUT, as I > > > > > > > > showed > > > > > > > > > below, not all 40 > watt > > > > > > > > > > bulbs put out > the > > same > > > amount > > > > of light > > > > > > > (lumens) > > > > > > > > or in > > > > > > > > > the same color > > > > > > > > > > spectrum > (Kelvin > > > rating). All > > > > 40 watt > > > > > > > bulbs, > > > > > > > > whether > > > > > > > > > incandescent, > > > > > > > > > > fluorescent, > CFL, > > LED, > > > > Halogen, etc.... ALL > > > > > > > use > > > > > > > > > only/around 40 > watts of > > > > > > > > > > electricity > but > > their > > > light > > > > output can vary > > > > > > > > > dramatically. This > is > > why > > > > > > > > > > fluorescent > bulbs > > are so > > > much > > > > more > > > > > > > efficient > > > > > > > > than > > > > > > > > > incandescent bulbs > and > > > > > > > > > > CFL's are > even > > more > > > > efficient... as a 40W > > > > > > > > fluorescent > > > > > > > > > bulb puts out a > LOT > > > > > > > > > > more light > (lumens) > > than > > > a 40 > > > > watt > > > > > > > incandescent > > > > > > > > bulb > > > > > > > > > and a 40W CFL > > > > > > > > > > puts out > > > > > > > > > > more light > (lumens) > > than > > > a > > > > 40W fluorescent > > > > > > > bulb. > > > > > > > > This > > > > > > > > > is why the OLD > > > > > > > > > > "Watts > > > > > > > > > > Per Gallon" > rule > > simply > > > does > > > > not work any > > > > > > > more. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > BUT.. if > three > > > different > > > > companies are > > > > > > > selling > > > > > > > > > standard T-10 > > fluorescent > > > > > > > > > > bulbs with > the > > same > > > exact > > > > rating of 40W, > > > > > > > 3550 > > > > > > > > lumens > > > > > > > > > and 6500K > > > > > > > > > > rating... all > > > > > > > > > > three of > those > > bulbs > > > should > > > > be VERY SIMILAR > > > > > > > if > > > > > > > > not > > > > > > > > > identical in the > > > > > > > > > > way they > > > > > > > > > > appear to our > eyes > > > (subject > > > > to our own > > > > > > > degree of > > > > > > > > color > > > > > > > > > blindness, of > > > > > > > > > > course!) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > In the past, > > things > > > like > > > > "soft white", > > > > > > > "warm > > > > > > > > white", > > > > > > > > > "daylight", "plant > > > > > > > > > > grow", etc., > type > > terms > > > were > > > > used and are > > > > > > > still > > > > > > > > used > > > > > > > > > but those are just > > > > > > > > > > simple words > (not > > > subject to > > > > a scientific > > > > > > > scale) > > > > > > > > to > > > > > > > > > describe the > Kelvin > > > > > > > > > > rating ranges > but > > lumens > > > are > > > > just as > > > > > > > important > > > > > > > > since a > > > > > > > > > bulb could have a > > > > > > > > > > 6500K rating > with > > only > > > 2200 > > > > lumens where > > > > > > > another > > > > > > > > bulb > > > > > > > > > could have a 6500K > > > > > > > > > > rating and > 3550 or > > 3700 > > > > lumens and that > > > > > > > bulb > > > > > > > > would put > > > > > > > > > out over 50% more > > > > > > > > > > light (lumens) > in > > the > > > same > > > > color spectrum > > > > > > > > (Kelvin > > > > > > > > > rating) so it would > be > > a > > > > > > > > > > much more > cost > > effective > > > bulb > > > > if it cost > > > > > > > the > > > > > > > > same > > > > > > > > > amount or only a > little > > > > > > > > > > more. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I'm slightly > > confused > > > about > > > > the "red and > > > > > > > blue > > > > > > > > light > > > > > > > > > for your plants" > as > > > > > > > > > > those two > colors > > are on > > > > opposite ends of > > > > > > > the > > > > > > > > Kelvin > > > > > > > > > Scale with reds > and > > > > > > > > > > ambers in the > > lower > > > numbers > > > > and greens and > > > > > > > blues > > > > > > > > in > > > > > > > > > the higher numbers. > I > > > > > > > > > > think this is > why > > you > > > would > > > > want a > > > > > > > mid-range > > > > > > > > (5000K to > > > > > > > > > 6500K) bulb as > > > > > > > > > > those > > > > > > > > > > are generally > > > considered > > > > "full spectrum" or > > > > > > > > "daylight" > > > > > > > > > bulbs. Here's a > > > > > > > > > > color picture > of > > the > > > Kelvin > > > > Scale, > > > > > > > > > > http://www.bltdirect.com/images/colour-temperature.jpg > > > > > > > > > <http://www.bltdirect.com/images/colour-temperature.jpg> > > > > > > <http://www.bltdirect.com/images/colour-temperature.jpg > > > > > > > > > <http://www.bltdirect.com/images/colour-temperature.jpg>> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > <http://www.bltdirect.com/images/colour-temperature.jpg > > > > > > > > > <http://www.bltdirect.com/images/colour-temperature.jpg> > > > > > > <http://www.bltdirect.com/images/colour-temperature.jpg > > > > > > > > > <http://www.bltdirect.com/images/colour-temperature.jpg>>> > > > > > > > > > and you can > > > > > > > > > > visually > > > > > > > > > > see that the > 5000K > > to > > > 6500K > > > > range is all > > > > > > > about > > > > > > > > the > > > > > > > > > same "color". I > think > > > > > > > > > > this is also > why > > > Actinic > > > > bulbs are usually > > > > > > > higher > > > > > > > > and > > > > > > > > > closer to the > 10000K > > > > > > > > > > range and > up... > > > apparently, > > > > the Kelvin > > > > > > > lighting > > > > > > > > scale > > > > > > > > > can go up to > 20,000K > > > > > > > > > > (according to > this > > > article > > > > about Reef Tanks > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > http://nh.craigslist.org/for/1423072406.html > > > > > <http://nh.craigslist.org/for/1423072406.html> > > > > > > <http://nh.craigslist.org/for/1423072406.html > > > > > <http://nh.craigslist.org/for/1423072406.html>> > > > > > > > > > > <http://nh.craigslist.org/for/1423072406.html > > > > > <http://nh.craigslist.org/for/1423072406.html> > > > > > > <http://nh.craigslist.org/for/1423072406.html > > > > > <http://nh.craigslist.org/for/1423072406.html>>> > > > > on, > > > > > > > > of > > > > > > > > > all places, > > > > > > > > > > Craigslist). > > > > > > > > > > Here is the > page > > that > > > that > > > > the above photo > > > > > > > link > > > > > > > > came > > > > > > > > > from and it has a > > > > > > > > > > chart > > > > > > > > > > that also > explains > > > things a > > > > little more also > > > > > > > and > > > > > > > > talks > > > > > > > > > about the CRI, yet > > > > > > > > > > another > lighting > > term > > > (Color > > > > Rendition > > > > > > > Index). > > > > > > > > > > http://www.bltdirect.com/lampColourTemperatures.php > > > > > <http://www.bltdirect.com/lampColourTemperatures.php> > > > > > > <http://www.bltdirect.com/lampColourTemperatures.php > > > > > <http://www.bltdirect.com/lampColourTemperatures.php>> > > > > > > > > > > <http://www.bltdirect.com/lampColourTemperatures.php > > > > > <http://www.bltdirect.com/lampColourTemperatures.php> > > > > > > <http://www.bltdirect.com/lampColourTemperatures.php > > > > > <http://www.bltdirect.com/lampColourTemperatures.php>>> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Lenny > Vasbinder > > > > > > > > > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > > > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>> > > > > > > > > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>>> > > > (Links > > > > > > > > to any articles > referenced > > in > > > > > > > > > > above reply > are > > > > > > > > > listed on the > right > > > > > > > > > > side, > > alphabetically > > > under > > > > Labels and also > > > > > > > under > > > > > > > > > Archives by Year, > > Month) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -----Original > > > Message----- > > > > > > > > > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > > > > > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > > > > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > > > > > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On > > > > > > > > Behalf Of Amber > Berglund > > > > > > > > > > Sent: > Tuesday, > > November > > > 10, > > > > 2009 4:22 PM > > > > > > > > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > > > > > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > > > > Subject: Re: > > > [AquaticLife] > > > > Re: > > > > > > > wisteria/lighting > > > > > > > > > previous > > > > > > > > > > > question/response > > > > > > > > > > revisited > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Another thing > to > > > consider is > > > > one light > > > > > > > company's > > > > > > > > 6500 > > > > > > > > > kelvin rating > > > > > > > > > > may not > > > > > > > > > > be identical > to > > another > > > light > > > > bulb from a > > > > > > > > different > > > > > > > > > company that's > > > > > > > > > > rated the > > > > > > > > > > same. The > > important > > > thing to > > > > look at is the > > > > > > > > color > > > > > > > > > chart they show on > the > > > > > > > > > > boxes, you > want > > more red > > > and > > > > blue light for > > > > > > > your > > > > > > > > > plants, green is > not > > > > > > > > > > useful > > > > > > > > > > or harmful as > the > > > plants > > > > reflect the light > > > > > > > back > > > > > > > > (makes > > > > > > > > > them appear more > > > > > > > > > > green but > does > > nothing > > > else > > > > for them). The > > > > > > > > kelvin > > > > > > > > > rating is based on > our > > > > > > > > > > eyes and how > they > > > perceive > > > > color, so each > > > > > > > > company > > > > > > > > > doesn't have to be > > > > > > > > > > identical, > perhaps > > some > > > day > > > > they will have > > > > > > > a > > > > > > > > universal > > > > > > > > > way to measure > > > > > > > > > > light > > > > > > > > > > spectrums on > bulbs > > that > > > is > > > > much less > > > > > > > confusing. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Amber > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Lenny V. aka > > GoldLenny > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > OK. So > you > > have a > > > total > > > > of 80 watts > > > > > > > right > > > > > > > > now, > > > > > > > > > which is just over > 1 > > > > > > > > > > > WPG, > which > > means > > > you > > > > only have enough > > > > > > > > lighting > > > > > > > > > for low-light, easy > to > > > > > > > > > > > grow > plants. > > See my > > > blog > > > > article > > > > > > > "Planted > > > > > > > > Tank: > > > > > > > > > So You Want A > Planted > > > > > > > > > > > Tank" > for > > links to > > > lists > > > > of low-light, > > > > > > > easy > > > > > > > > to > > > > > > > > > grow plants that > will > > > > > > > > > > > do OK in > your > > tank. > > > You > > > > should replace > > > > > > > > those > > > > > > > > > tubes at least > > yearly... > > > > > > > > > > > although > some > > say > > > every > > > > six months. As > > > > > > > far > > > > > > > > as I > > > > > > > > > know, a 40W bulb > is > > > > > > > > > > > the > highest > > wattage > > > made > > > > for this type > > > > > > > of > > > > > > > > > bulb/fixture right > now > > but > > > > > > > > > > > you can > > increase > > > your > > > > lighting > > > > > > > > > > > (lumens) > and > > K > > > (Kelvin) > > > > rating. See > > > > > > > below. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > NOTE - > below > > links > > > are > > > > for > > > > > > > > example/informational > > > > > > > > > purposes only, as > I > > > > > > > > > > > know > nothing > > about > > > the > > > > sites. God... > > > > > > > did I > > > > > > > > just > > > > > > > > > say that? Do I > really > > > > > > > > > > > have to > add > > > disclaimers > > > > to my posts > > > > > > > now? LOL > > > > > > > > Just > > > > > > > > > laughing at > myself. > > > > > > > > > > > LOL > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > This may > be > > your > > > > Sylvania bulb... > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > http://www.lightbulbemporium.com/proddetail.asp?prod=F40/EX50 > > > > > > > > > <http://www.lightbulbemporium.com/proddetail.asp?prod=F40/EX50> > > > > > > <http://www.lightbulbemporium.com/proddetail.asp?prod=F40/EX50 > > > > > > > > > <http://www.lightbulbemporium.com/proddetail.asp?prod=F40/EX50>> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > <http://www.lightbulbemporium.com/proddetail.asp?prod=F40/EX50 > > > > > > > > > <http://www.lightbulbemporium.com/proddetail.asp?prod=F40/EX50> > > > > > > <http://www.lightbulbemporium.com/proddetail.asp?prod=F40/EX50 > > > > > > > > > <http://www.lightbulbemporium.com/proddetail.asp?prod=F40/EX50>>> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > <http://www.lightbulbemporium.com/proddetail.asp?prod=F40/EX50 > > > > > > > > > <http://www.lightbulbemporium.com/proddetail.asp?prod=F40/EX50> > > > > > > <http://www.lightbulbemporium.com/proddetail.asp?prod=F40/EX50 > > > > > > > > > <http://www.lightbulbemporium.com/proddetail.asp?prod=F40/EX50>> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > <http://www.lightbulbemporium.com/proddetail.asp?prod=F40/EX50 > > > > > > > > > <http://www.lightbulbemporium.com/proddetail.asp?prod=F40/EX50> > > > > > > <http://www.lightbulbemporium.com/proddetail.asp?prod=F40/EX50 > > > > > > > > > <http://www.lightbulbemporium.com/proddetail.asp?prod=F40/EX50>>>> > > > > > > > > > and if > > > > > > > > > > > it is, > then > > it's > > > the > > > > same ratings as > > > > > > > the > > > > > > > > specs in > > > > > > > > > the T-10 bulb that > I > > > > > > > > > > > > copy/pasted > > below, > > > which > > > > is a pretty > > > > > > > good > > > > > > > > bulb > > > > > > > > > with higher lumens > and > > > > > > > > > > > the > higher K > > > rating, > > > > although not a > > > > > > > 6500K > > > > > > > > rated > > > > > > > > > bulb. At the bottom > of > > > > > > > > > > > this > page, > > there > > > was a > > > > link to this > > > > > > > bulb... > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > http://www.lightbulbemporium.com/maxlite_51204_ml_f40t10_850_rscg.as > > > > > > > > > > <http://www.lightbulbemporium.com/maxlite_51204_ml_f40t10_850_rscg.as> > > > > > > > > > > > > <http://www.lightbulbemporium.com/maxlite_51204_ml_f40t10_850_rscg.as > > > > > > > > > > > <http://www.lightbulb<br/><br/>(Message over 64 KB, truncated)

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 44474	From: bill 1433	Date: 11/12/2009
Subject: Re: wisteria/lighting previous question/response revisited

Ok then here's one worse? http://www.aqueonproducts.com/ who is also All-Glass. Wait until you read the funny stuff about Hoods, lighting and tubes. My hood is their # 21230. Check out tube size! Check on youtube but would rather be on this one and better yet, it goes wiwth my current mood! http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZHRHc5HmFHg&feature=channel Hey these boys could be neighbors, just accross the top of your state and a bit toward the west! Don't know about \\Steve// on this one? Bill --- On Thu, 11/12/09, Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@...> wrote: > From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@...> > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: wisteria/lighting previous question/response revisited > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Date: Thursday, November 12, 2009, 8:59 PM > OK.  I did a Google and DFS > showed up near the top for an All-Glass > fluorescent bulb and here's the page and low and behold, > they have a 24" 17W > bulb listed... BUT this bulb was not showing up on any > previous searches on > DFS. > > http://www.drsfostersmith.com/product/prod_display.cfm?pcatid=12850 > > BUT.... and it's a BIG BUT... (all the way up in the > "Bertha" category ;-) > *) > > According to that page, it's a T-8 bulb... NOT a T-4 > bulb.  Are you > confusing radius with diameter?  A 1" (T-8) diameter > bulb would have a 1/2" > radius so I want to make sure we're still on the right > track. > > Unfortunately, according to the above page, it's an 8000K > bulb and they do > not list the lumens. > > If you do reach All-Glass, ask them about the lumens on > that bulb and > whether it's a T-8 or not.  Or maybe if you double > check your measuring, > you'll find that it's a 1" diameter and a T-8 bulb.  > I'll be surprised if it > is a T-4 bulb since I cannot find anything about a T-4 bulb > matching your > measurements or wattage. > > * BTW... who's now humming http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VlRXQEA0yj0 ?  I > know \\Steve// is! ;-) > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed > on the right > side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives > by Year, Month) > > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] > On > Behalf Of bill 1433 > Sent: Thursday, November 12, 2009 7:28 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: wisteria/lighting previous > question/response > revisited > > Hi Len, > > I wrote all of this before but with going back and fourth > so many times > its more that possible that you missed it.  Yes, it's > a 30" fixture that has > one > tube in it at 24" or exactly measurements are 23" end piece > or band to end > piece, the tube over-all measure's 23 7/8 from pin edge to > pin edge. > > Now all that being said it is stamped or printed at 17 > Watts from All-Glass > and the final piece of the puzzle and probably why none of > us can find any > information is what else is stamped or printed on the > tube:  "Made In > Germany"! > > Again, I think we are on "middle ground" with the 23 > 7/8.  It could very > well be that it is also the 22 5/16 again the "where" and > whose is doing the > measuring that counts.  Giving all of this a lot of > thought and the > aggravation of it all, which is now reaching critical mass, > I did today come > one with one lone constructive thought. > > How about if I try to give All-Glass a phone call and find > out just exactly > what if any tubes can be used with this fixture?  I > thought originally to > try taking it apart and getting an "eyeball" on the ballast > but to do so > could risk damage to the unit as it is stamped or put > together in spots with > those flimsy plastic tabs and I really don't want to risk > the damage to the > unit. > > Next order of business, find a phone number for these > folks! > > Bill > > > --- On Thu, 11/12/09, Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@...> > wrote: > > > From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@...> > > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: wisteria/lighting > previous > question/response revisited > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > Date: Thursday, November 12, 2009, 5:04 PM > > Can you show me a link to a T-4, 17W > > bulb?  I haven't found a single one in > > all the reading that I've been doing.  Remind me how > > long your bulbs are > > again?  I scrolled down looking and didn't see an > > exact answer.  In looking > > at your link to DFS about your fixture, I see that for > the > > 29G/20G, it's 30" > > long with the 24" bulbs but I wanted to be sure since > every > > site I look at > > for T-4's, they do not come in 17W or 24" length so > I'm > > still thinking > > something is wrong with your calculations or the > reading of > > the specs/calcs > > that you do have. > > > > Here are three different sites with their lists of > T-4 > > bulbs and as you can > > see, there are NO 17W bulbs and no 24" bulbs. > > > > http://www.lightbulbsdirect.com/page/001/CTGY/T4 > > http://www.buylighting.com/T4-Fluorescent-s/102.htm > > http://www.servicelighting.com/T4-Straight-Linear-Fluorescent-Light-Bulbs > > > > The closest that T-4's come are 20.5" or 22-5/16" with > only > > one type/brand > > having the 22-5/16" bulb as a specialty bulb and all > of the > > other T-4's are > > 20.5" and then jump up to 33 7/8" or 33.9" depending > on the > > site. > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > > (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are > listed > > on the right > > side, alphabetically under Labels and also under > Archives > > by Year, Month) > > > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] > > On > > Behalf Of bill 1433 > > Sent: Thursday, November 12, 2009 3:27 PM > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: wisteria/lighting > previous > > question/response > > revisited > > > > Hi Len, > > > > Like I said, they are a 1/2" but so far all I can > find > > around here > > are "cool white" and "warm light" bulbs. > > > > Bill > > > > --- On Thu, 11/12/09, Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@...> > > wrote: > > > > > From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@...> > > > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: wisteria/lighting > > previous > > question/response revisited > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > > Date: Thursday, November 12, 2009, 3:48 PM > > > Bulb diameter is easy.  Take the > > > bulb and place it over a ruler/tape > > > measurer and look straight down on it.  It > should be > > > easy to discern between > > > 1/2" (T-4) and 1" (T-8) and the T-5 (5/8") uses > a > > > completely different > > > single pin on each end so that would eliminate > that > > > bulb.  Or better yet.. > > > take your bulb to the WalMart and compare apples > to > > apples > > > and you'll then > > > know exactly what you have and also be able to > see > > what > > > your local WalMart > > > offers as far as better bulbs.  You can probably > get > > > much more lighting with > > > a new $5.00 to $10.00 bulb. > > > > > > Then Santa can still bring you the bigger tank > and > > > accessories and your > > > other tanks will also be far more functional in > case > > you > > > choose to sell them > > > or just have more tanks.  As far as selling > your > > > unused stuff, > > > CraigsList.org is free and you can renew the ad > every > > week > > > until you find > > > the right buyer who is willing to pay the best > price > > you > > > can get. > > > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > > > (Links to any articles referenced in above reply > are > > listed > > > on the right > > > side, alphabetically under Labels and also under > > Archives > > > by Year, Month) > > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] > > > On > > > Behalf Of bill 1433 > > > Sent: Thursday, November 12, 2009 2:27 PM > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: wisteria/lighting > > previous > > > question/response > > > revisited > > > > > > Bulb Diameter Len, and now you see my problem.  > I > > > haven't found any either. > > > Also reading and studying all that you have sent > me so > > far > > > I come away from > > > all of this with one single thought, is it worth > > it?  > > > > > > > > > With all this being said and it so close to the > time > > for a > > > visit from > > > "Santa", I'm wondering if I should not put all > you > > have > > > taught me to better > > > use by just getting something like a standard > > 55-gallon > > > tank!  These lights > > > do cost a bit but there is not a huge different > > between > > > size vs. cost from a > > > 29 to a 55.  Then to is the issue of what to do > with > > > the plastic covers I > > > already have should I go to the all glass > covers. > > > > > > Sell them, sure but to whom?  Remember, I'm the > guy > > > that has a hard time > > > just trying to find a place to buy fish around > here, > > there > > > just aren't that > > > many places or people.  No matter what I do, I > > promise > > > to keep you posted. > > > > > > Thanks for all you've taught and helped me with, > > > > > > Bill > > > > > > > > > --- On Thu, 11/12/09, Lenny V. aka GoldLenny > <GoldLenny@...> > > > wrote: > > > > > > > From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@...> > > > > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: > wisteria/lighting > > > previous > > > question/response revisited > > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > > > Date: Thursday, November 12, 2009, 2:42 PM > > > > Once again Bill.... you need to get > > > > away from the "Watts" mindset.  It's > > > > just not applicable with the wide array of > bulbs > > > available > > > > nowadays.  That > > > > link goes to a CFL light strip and 65 watts > of > > CFL > > > lighting > > > > is a LOT, LOT, > > > > LOT (3 LOTS) more lighting than 65 watts of > an > > > incandescent > > > > bulb and a LOT, > > > > LOT (2 LOTS) more lighting than a 65W > normal > > > fluorescent > > > > bulb.  This would > > > > probably increase your lighting by 10X's > over > > what you > > > have > > > > now.  If you > > > > just went with 20W (range) CFL's, you'd get > > 2-3X's > > > more > > > > light than you > > > > currently have.  > > > > > > > > You still need to do some more research on > your > > > current > > > > bulbs to find out > > > > the specs on them.  Without knowing your > > current > > > > specs, it's difficult to > > > > know how much more lighting you might > want/need. > > > > > > > > Since you got your fixture and bulbs from > DFS, I > > just > > > did a > > > > search of '17 > > > > watt fluorescent' and four bulbs came up.. > one > > was a > > > CFL so > > > > that wasn't it > > > > and the other three are below BUT none of > them > > are > > > T-4's... > > > > in fact, so far, > > > > I have not been able to find a T-4, 17W > bulb > > > > anywhere.  What are you > > > > measuring to come up with the 1/2" > figure?  > > Bulb > > > > diameter, pin separation or > > > > other??? > > > > > > > > http://www.drsfostersmith.com/product/prod_display.cfm?pcatid=3787 > > > > (24", > > > > T-8, 5500K, nothing for lumens) > > > > > > > > http://www.drsfostersmith.com/product/prod_display.cfm?pcatid=4491 > > > > (24", > > > > T-8, Actinic 420nm, nothing for lumens) > > > > > > > > http://www.drsfostersmith.com/product/prod_display.cfm?pcatid=4489 > > > > (24", > > > > T-8, 6500K, nothing for lumens) > > > > > > > > You need to take your bulb out and go to a > local > > > lighting > > > > store (department) > > > > or even the Walmart and see if they can give > you > > more > > > info > > > > on it or at least > > > > you might find identical sized bulbs that > do > > have > > > specs on > > > > them so you can > > > > be more informed about what you have. > > > > > > > > While I was at the DFS site, and since you > > previously > > > > mentioned that you > > > > have an All-Glass hood that came with the > one > > bulb > > > light > > > > strip, I did a > > > > search on DFS for 'All-Glass light' and > found > > this > > > link for > > > > the only single > > > > bulb light strip that All-Glass has on DFS' > > site. > > > > > > > > http://www.drsfostersmith.com/product/prod_display.cfm?pcatid=3793 > > > > > > > > It comes in 16" or 20" lengths.  There's a > link > > to > > > > "View compatible Bulbs" > > > > in the Description tab, which brings up a > page > > of > > > bulbs and > > > > ALL of the ones > > > > compatible for the 20" strip are T-8 > bulbs.  > > There > > > are > > > > a couple of dozen > > > > bulbs listed so I didn't go through them > and > > > unfortunately, > > > > they do NOT list > > > > the wattage on that list so I wasn't able to > find > > any > > > 17W > > > > bulbs without > > > > checking a bunch of links.  Since it was > an > > > All-Glass > > > > fixture, I did click > > > > on the first All-Glass brand bulb which > brought > > up > > > this > > > > page... > > > > > > > > http://www.drsfostersmith.com/product/prod_display.cfm?pcatid=12850 > > > > > > > > And you will see that there is either an > 18", 15W > > bulb > > > or a > > > > 24", 17W bulb, > > > > as well as others... and these are the > 8000K > > bulbs > > > which > > > > were listed in the > > > > description on the website link that you > posted > > > earlier > > > > BUT.. these are ALL > > > > T-8 bulbs, not T-4's so we're back to that > spec > > issue > > > > again.  This page does > > > > call them 8000K Daylight, Full Spectrum > bulbs so > > maybe > > > they > > > > are OK but I > > > > wish that the DFS site would list lumens > since > > that is > > > a > > > > critical, > > > > need-to-know piece of information that is > > missing.  > > > As > > > > seen in my previous > > > > posts, the same sized bulbs can have a > lumen > > output > > > that is > > > > 50% to 100% > > > > higher than a comparable bulb of the same > size... > > and > > > that > > > > makes a HUGE > > > > difference in lighting. > > > > > > > > Once again, take the bulb to your WalMart > and > > compare > > > > apples to apples and > > > > find out exactly what size bulb you have > and > > while > > > there, > > > > look at other > > > > identical sized bulbs and look for the > highest > > lumens > > > in > > > > the 5000K to 6500K > > > > range, buy one and bring it home and see if > it's > > a > > > LOT > > > > brighter than what > > > > you now have.  If so, that might do the > trick. > > > > > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > > > > (Links to any articles referenced in above > reply > > are > > > listed > > > > on the right > > > > side, alphabetically under Labels and also > under > > > Archives > > > > by Year, Month) > > > > > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > > > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] > > > > On > > > > Behalf Of bill 1433 > > > > Sent: Thursday, November 12, 2009 12:12 PM > > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: > wisteria/lighting > > > previous > > > > question/response > > > > revisited > > > > > > > > Hi Amber, > > > > > > > > The links Len provided are very close BUT > it's > > the > > > ends of > > > > the tube or pins > > > > that worry me.  They are very close but > "how"? > > > > > > > > Meaning this buying the tube, ok by mail?  > Now > > what > > > if > > > > it doesn't work? > > > > Rreturn a $10.00 tube the postage would > cost > > more.  > > > > I'm trying to work > > > > backward now from Len's link, and get a > > manufacture so > > > I > > > > can buy around > > > > here.  Also I'm getting made enough now to > > scrape > > > the > > > > whole thing and just > > > > get a new All-Glass cover then maybe one of > > these: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > http://www.drsfostersmith.com/product/prod_display.cfm?c=3578+3733+9654+9871 > > > > &pcatid=9871 > > > > > > > > This link is not pointing to the exact > Coralife > > > product I > > > > want at Doctors > > > > its # apn-16981, if you have their catalog > but I > > can't > > > make > > > > it come up on > > > > search at their site.  It is a single rated > at > > 65 > > > > watts and is 24". > > > > > > > > Bill > > > > --- On Thu, 11/12/09, Amber Berglund <arberglund@...> > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > From: Amber Berglund <arberglund@...> > > > > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: > > wisteria/lighting > > > > previous > > > > question/response revisited > > > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > > > > Date: Thursday, November 12, 2009, > 12:59 PM > > > > > Bill does have T-4's if I remember > > > > > correctly, maybe one of those 20watt > > > > > bulbs will work for him and provide > more > > lumens > > > than > > > > his > > > > > current bulbs do. > > > > > Did you check those links out Bill? ;) > > > > > > > > > > Amber > > > > > > > > > > Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > Just because a fixture currently > has a > > T-8 > > > or > > > > T-10, > > > > > does not mean it > > > > > > cannot > > > > > > use a T-12, and vice versa. They > are > > all > > > medium > > > > bi-pin > > > > > bulbs, meaning they > > > > > > all will fit and work UNLESS the > > reflector > > > is so > > > > tight > > > > > that a T-12 cannot > > > > > > fit inside the fixture but I > haven't > > seen > > > this as > > > > a > > > > > problem in the past. > > > > > > Usually, going with a T-8 or > T-10, > > instead > > > of a > > > > T-12 > > > > > will give more lumens > > > > > > but in the case of this > particular > > sized > > > bulb, > > > > the > > > > > T-12 may be the better > > > > > > option. Of course, we still need > more > > > details on > > > > > Bill's exact bulb. We > > > > > > still do not know anything except > that > > it's > > > 17 > > > > > watts... nothing about > > > > > > lumens, K rating or anything else > for > > > comparison > > > > > purposes. As Johnny 5 > > > > > > once > > > > > > said... "Need more input!" (I have > no > > clue > > > why > > > > that > > > > > OLD movie line popped > > > > > > into my head and I can't blame it > on > > drugs > > > since > > > > I > > > > > didn't/don't do them... > > > > > > and as far as I know, beer > doesn't > > cause > > > acid > > > > > flashbacks. LOL > > > > > > http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Short_Circuit > > > > > > <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Short_Circuit>) > > > > > > > > > > > > Now... thinking back a little. > Bill > > may > > > have > > > > T-4's and > > > > > if he does, those > > > > > > use the miniature bi-pin base and > the > > above > > > > larger > > > > > T-#'s with medium > > > > > > bi-pin > > > > > > base would not work. If this is > the > > case, > > > there > > > > are > > > > > other options > > > > > > listed on > > > > > > this page... > > > > > > > > > > > > http://www.servicelighting.com/T4-Straight-Linear-Fluorescent-Light-Bulbs > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > <http://www.servicelighting.com/T4-Straight-Linear-Fluorescent-Light-Bulbs> > > > > > > including this 20W, 6400K, 1340 > Lumens > > bulb > > > - > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > http://www.servicelighting.com/Bulbrite-85220-F20T4-64K-F20T4-D-T4-Straight- > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > <http://www.servicelighting.com/Bulbrite-85220-F20T4-64K-F20T4-D-T4-Straight > > > > -> > > > > > > Linear-Fluorescent-Light-Bulb, > which > > sounds > > > like > > > > a > > > > > pretty good bulb > > > > > > from the > > > > > > specs and actually provides more > lumens > > than > > > any > > > > of > > > > > the T-12's previously > > > > > > listed. > > > > > > > > > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > > > > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > > > > (Links to any articles referenced > in > > above > > > reply > > > > are > > > > > listed on the right > > > > > > side, alphabetically under Labels > and > > also > > > under > > > > > Archives by Year, Month) > > > > > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > > > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > > > > > > > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > > > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > > > > > > > > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On > > > > > > Behalf Of Amber Berglund > > > > > > Sent: Thursday, November 12, 2009 > 10:29 > > AM > > > > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: > > > wisteria/lighting > > > > > previous > > > > > > question/response > > > > > > revisited > > > > > > > > > > > > Bill has smaller bulbs, I think > they > > are not > > > easy > > > > to > > > > > find in a higher > > > > > > wattage output, which is what he > was > > looking > > > for > > > > a few > > > > > months back. > > > > > > > > > > > > Amber > > > > > > > > > > > > Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I don't know what you mean > by > > this. > > > Please > > > > > elaborate. What size tube? > > > > > > > I posted about several > different > > bulbs > > > but > > > > all > > > > > were T-12's, which is > > > > > > > one of the most common > sizes. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > > > > > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > > > > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > > > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>> > > > > > > (Links to any articles referenced > in > > > > > > > above reply are listed on > the > > right > > > side, > > > > > alphabetically under Labels > > > > > > > and also under Archives by > Year, > > > Month) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > > > > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > > > > > > > > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On > > > > > Behalf Of bill 1433 > > > > > > > Sent: Thursday, November 12, > 2009 > > 8:59 > > > AM > > > > > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > > > > > > > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] > Re: > > > > wisteria/lighting > > > > > previous > > > > > > > question/response revisited > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Yes Len, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > But its finding that size > tube > > with > > > more of > > > > > anything that's the problem. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Bill > > > > > > > > > > > > > > --- On Wed, 11/11/09, Lenny > V. > > aka > > > > GoldLenny > > > > > <GoldLenny@... > > > > > > > > > > > > <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com> > > > > > > > > > > <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com>> > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > From: Lenny V. aka > GoldLenny > > > <GoldLenny@... > > > > > > > > > > > > <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com> > > > > > > > > > > <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com>> > > > > > > > > Subject: RE: > [AquaticLife] > > Re: > > > > > wisteria/lighting previous > > > > > > > > question/response > revisited > > > > > > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > > > > > > > > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > > Date: Wednesday, > November > > 11, > > > 2009, > > > > 5:22 PM > > > > > Well, if you only have > > > > > > > > 17W, then you could > > definitely do > > > > better > > > > > with the 20W, higher lumen, > > > > > > > > better K rating bulbs > that I > > > > mentioned. > > > > > Considering the lumen > > > > > > > > ratings of fluorescent > bulbs > > I've > > > > looked at, > > > > > your 17W bulbs might > > > > > > > > only have 500-700 > lumens > > where the > > > BEST > > > > 20W > > > > > bulb (below) has > > > > > > > > 1075 lumens so you > > > > > > > > could possibly increase > your > > > lighting > > > > by 50% > > > > > to 100% just by > > > > > > > > changing to that bulb. > At > > least, > > > with > > > > that > > > > > bulb, you'll be in the > > > > > > > > low-light range for > plants on > > the > > > 20G > > > > but > > > > > the 29G will need some work. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Of course, you should > find > > out > > > what > > > > the > > > > > lumens and K ratings are on > > > > > > > > the bulbs you have so > you'll > > know > > > if > > > > you are > > > > > getting a small jump or > > > > > > > > a BIG jump in lighting > just > > by > > > changing > > > > your > > > > > bulbs. Check your local > > > > > > > > WalMart for bulbs. My > nearby > > > WalMart > > > > > SuperCenter has a really big > > > > > > > > assortment of > fluorescent > > tubes > > > and > > > > they > > > > > were cheaper than the Home > > > > > > > > Depot. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Something else I'm > thinking > > about > > > for > > > > you is > > > > > going with 18" > > > > > > > > light-sticks on > > > > > > > > each end of your 29G > tank or > > front > > > or > > > > back > > > > > (back would hide it best > > > > > > > > but you decide your > best > > > aesthetics) > > > > and > > > > > you'd have to make a DIY > > > > > > > > reflector for it (white > > poster > > > board > > > > and > > > > > scotch tape would work) and > > > > > > > > that would get more > lighting > > down > > > to > > > > the > > > > > bottom level plants in the > > > > > > > > 29G. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > > > > > > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > > > > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > > > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>> > > > > > > (Links to any articles > > > > > > > > referenced in above > reply > > are > > > listed on > > > > the > > > > > right side, > > > > > > > > alphabetically under > Labels > > and > > > also > > > > under > > > > > Archives by Year, Month) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -----Original > Message----- > > > > > > > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > > > > > > > > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > > > > > > > > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] > > > > > > > > On > > > > > > > > Behalf Of bill 1433 > > > > > > > > Sent: Wednesday, > November 11, > > 2009 > > > 3:42 > > > > PM > > > > > > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > > > > > > > > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > > Subject: RE: > [AquaticLife] > > Re: > > > > > wisteria/lighting previous > > > > > > > > question/response > revisited > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > It is what it is type > of > > thing > > > Len. > > > > Site > > > > > says one thing but stamped > > > > > > > > or printed right on the > tube > > is at > > > 17 > > > > > watts. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Bill > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > --- On Wed, 11/11/09, > Lenny > > V. > > > aka > > > > GoldLenny > > > > > <GoldLenny@... > > > > > > > > > > > > <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com> > > > > > > > > > > <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com>> > > > > > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > From: Lenny V. aka > > GoldLenny > > > > <GoldLenny@... > > > > > > > > > > > > <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com> > > > > > > > > > > <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com>> > > > > > > > > > Subject: RE: > > [AquaticLife] > > > Re: > > > > > wisteria/lighting > > > > > > > > previous > > > > > > > > > question/response > > revisited > > > > > > > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > > > > > > > > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > > > Date: Wednesday, > > November > > > 11, > > > > 2009, > > > > > 2:16 PM The > > > > > > > > problem might be this > > > > > > > > > statement in the > > > description... > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > "... Hoods include > > 8000ºK > > > > bulb... > > > > > ...20W, 24"..." > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > That's getting into > the > > > higher > > > > > green/blue Kelvin > > > > > > > > range... > > > > > > > > > closer to the > > > > > > > > > 10,000K actinic > type > > bulbs... > > > than > > > > the > > > > > 5000K to 6500K > > > > > > > > "Daylight" bulbs > > > > > > > > > that provide full > > spectrum > > > > lighting. > > > > > It's also only > > > > > > > > a 20W bulb > > > > > > > > > (according to the > DFS > > site, > > > > although > > > > > you stated it was > > > > > > > > only 17W so > > > > > > > > > double check this) > so > > it's > > > only > > > > 1WPG on > > > > > the 20G and > > > > > > > > only 0.69WPG on > > > > > > > > > the 29G. Of course, > if > > the > > > bulb > > > > puts > > > > > out a LOT more > > > > > > > > lumens (you would > > > > > > > > > have to do more > checking > > up > > > on the > > > > bulb > > > > > to find this), > > > > > > > > that would help > > > > > > > > > a little but not > much. > > I > > > think you > > > > need > > > > > at least > > > > > > > > 1WPG to have success > > > > > > > > > with low-light > plants, > > > although > > > > > floating plants like > > > > > > > > Anacharis, > > > > > > > > > Hornwort, > Duckweed, > > etc., > > > would be > > > > up > > > > > close to the > > > > > > > > light and benefit > > > > > > > > > from CO2 from the > air > > and > > > would do > > > > OK > > > > > with your > > > > > > > > lighting... but then > > > > > > > > > they would also > block > > out > > > the > > > > lighting > > > > > to the rest of > > > > > > > > the tank. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I don't see a lot > of > > options, > > > as > > > > far as > > > > > T-8 bulbs are > > > > > > > > concerned for > > > > > > > > > this size fixture > but I > > see a > > > few > > > > > different T-12's... > > > > > > > > such as... > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > (My rating is: GOOD > - > > but > > > see > > > > BETTER > > > > > and BEST options > > > > > > > > below... at > > > > > > > > > least as far as > the > > bulbs on > > > this > > > > site > > > > > are concerned) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > http://www.servicelighting.com/Sylvania-22119-F20T12-DSGN50-T12-Straig > > > > > > > > > > > > > > <http://www.servicelighting.com/Sylvania-22119-F20T12-DSGN50-T12-Straig> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > <http://www.servicelighting.com/Sylvania-22119-F20T12-DSGN50-T12-Strai > > > > > > > > > > > > > > <http://www.servicelighting.com/Sylvania-22119-F20T12-DSGN50-T12-Strai> > > > > > > > g> > > > > > > > > > ht-Lin > > > > > > > > > > > ear-Fluorescent-Light-Bulb > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Light Output: 880 > > lumens > > > > > > > > > Refers to the > literal > > measure > > > of > > > > the > > > > > light-output of a > > > > > > > > particular > > > > > > > > > light bulb, > measured in > > the > > > number > > > > of > > > > > lumens. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Energy Used: 20 > watts > > > > > > > > > "Watts" is the > term > > applied > > > to > > > > the > > > > > amount of energy > > > > > > > > required and used > > > > > > > > > by a particular > light > > bulb. > > > It is > > > > an > > > > > international > > > > > > > > system unit of > > > > > > > > > power equal to one > joule > > per > > > > second. > > > > > Contrary to > > > > > > > > popular belief, the > > > > > > > > > wattage of a bulb > does > > not > > > > directly > > > > > measure the > > > > > > > > brightness; the > > > > > > > > > "lumens" of a light > is > > what > > > > defines the > > > > > actual light > > > > > > > > output. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Average Lifetime: > 9,000 > > > hours > > > > > > > > > This refers to an > > average > > > > lifetime > > > > > rating based on > > > > > > > > large quantities in > > > > > > > > > test groups. This > > testing > > > takes > > > > into > > > > > account usage of > > > > > > > > 3 hours per > > > > > > > > > start for > fluorescent > > lamps > > > and > > > > 10 > > > > > hours per start for > > > > > > > > HID lamps. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Bulb Type: T12 > > > > > > > > > The "Bulb Type" is > > typically > > > a > > > > > combination of the > > > > > > > > style of bulb as > > > > > > > > > well as the width > of > > the > > > bulb. > > > > Usually, > > > > > the first > > > > > > > > couple letters will > > > > > > > > > indicate the type; > "G" > > would > > > > indicate > > > > > "Globe", "PAR" > > > > > > > > would indicate > > > > > > > > > "Parabolic > Reflector"... > > The > > > > numbers > > > > > indicate the > > > > > > > > diameter of the > > > > > > > > > light bulb in > eighths of > > an > > > inch; > > > > a > > > > > "G40" would be a > > > > > > > > "Globe" style > > > > > > > > > that is "5 inches" > in > > > diameter. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Base Type: Medium > > Bi-Pin > > > > > > > > > The "Base" of a > light > > bulb is > > > the > > > > part > > > > > that either > > > > > > > > screws or snaps > > > > > > > > > into a receptacle. > Base > > Type > > > > > terminology may indicate > > > > > > > > common > > > > > > > > > descriptive words > like > > > "Medium" > > > > or > > > > > "Candelabra", or > > > > > > > > may even contain > > > > > > > > > numeric codes that > > signify > > > size > > > > and > > > > > variety, like > > > > > > > > "E26" or "2GX13". > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Color Temperature: > > 5,000K > > > > > > > > > Correlated Color > > Temperature > > > (CCT) > > > > is a > > > > > specification > > > > > > > > of the color > > > > > > > > > appearance of a > lamp, > > > relating > > > > its > > > > > color to that of a > > > > > > > > reference source > > > > > > > > > heated to a > particular > > > > temperature, > > > > > measured in > > > > > > > > degrees Kelvin (K). It > > > > > > > > > generally measures > the > > > "warmth" > > > > or > > > > > "coolness" of light > > > > > > > > source > > > > > > > > > appearance. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > CRI: 90 > > > > > > > > > CRI refers to the > > "Color > > > > Rendering > > > > > Index" of a light > > > > > > > > bulb. > > > > > > > > > CRI measures a > > > > > > > > > light source and > grades > > its > > > > ability to > > > > > render the > > > > > > > > color of objects > > > > > > > > > "correctly," as > compared > > with > > > a > > > > > reference source with > > > > > > > > comparable color > > > > > > > > > temperature. 100 > is > > perfect > > > > rendering. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Length: 24 inches > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > (BETTER - slightly > > higher > > > lumens > > > > and > > > > > higher 6500K > > > > > > > > rating) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > http://www.servicelighting.com/Westinghouse-36516-F20T12-FS-T12-Straig > > > > > > > > > > > > > > <http://www.servicelighting.com/Westinghouse-36516-F20T12-FS-T12-Straig> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > <http://www.servicelighting.com/Westinghouse-36516-F20T12-FS-T12-Strai > > > > > > > > > > > > > > <http://www.servicelighting.com/Westinghouse-36516-F20T12-FS-T12-Strai> > > > > > > > g> > > > > > > > > > ht-Lin > > > > > > > > > > > ear-Fluorescent-Light-Bulb > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Light Output: 900 > > lumens > > > > > > > > > Energy Used: 20 > watts > > > > > > > > > Average Lifetime: > > 10,000 > > > hours > > > > > > > > > Bulb Type: T12 > > > > > > > > > Base Type: Medium > > Bi-Pin > > > > > > > > > Color Temperature: > > 6,500K > > > > > > > > > CRI: 90 > > > > > > > > > Length: 24 inches > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > (BEST, of these > three - > > > around > > > > 20% > > > > > higher lumens and > > > > > > > > good 6,500K > > > > > > > > > rating, although it > does > > have > > > a > > > > lower > > > > > CRI rating.. but > > > > > > > > still > > > > > > > > > passing) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > http://www.servicelighting.com/Sylvania-22083-F20T12-D-T12-Straight-Li > > > > > > > > > > > > > > <http://www.servicelighting.com/Sylvania-22083-F20T12-D-T12-Straight-Li> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > <http://www.servicelighting.com/Sylvania-22083-F20T12-D-T12-Straight-L > > > > > > > > > > > > > > <http://www.servicelighting.com/Sylvania-22083-F20T12-D-T12-Straight-L> > > > > > > > i> > > > > > > > > > near-F > > > > > > > > > > luorescent-Light-Bulb > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Light Output: > 1,075 > > lumens > > > > > > > > > Energy Used: 20 > watts > > > > > > > > > Average Lifetime: > 9,000 > > > hours > > > > > > > > > Bulb Type: T12 > > > > > > > > > Base Type: Medium > > Bi-Pin > > > > > > > > > Color Temperature: > > 6,500K > > > > > > > > > CRI: 76 > > > > > > > > > Length: 24 inches > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Compare the above > three > > to > > > what is > > > > sold > > > > > as a > > > > > > > > plant/aquarium light by > > > > > > > > > the same company, > which > > has > > > a > > > > lower > > > > > lumens, MUCH lower > > > > > > > > CRI rating and > > > > > > > > > does not list the > K > > rating > > > other > > > > than > > > > > to say "Plant" > > > > > > > > which is a > > > > > > > > > subjective rating > > established > > > by > > > > the > > > > > manufacturer. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > (WORST) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > http://www.servicelighting.com/Westinghouse-36411-F20T12-PL-T12-Straig > > > > > > > > > > > > > > <http://www.servicelighting.com/Westinghouse-36411-F20T12-PL-T12-Straig> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > <http://www.servicelighting.com/Westinghouse-36411-F20T12-PL-T12-Strai > > > > > > > > > > > > > > <http://www.servicelighting.com/Westinghouse-36411-F20T12-PL-T12-Strai> > > > > > > > g> > > > > > > > > > ht-Lin > > > > > > > > > > > ear-Fluorescent-Light-Bulb > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Light Output: 700 > > lumens > > > (over 30% > > > > less > > > > > lighting > > > > > > > > than the 1,075 > > > > > > > > > lumens bulb > > > > > > > > > above) > > > > > > > > > Energy Used: 20 > watts > > > > > > > > > Average Lifetime: > > 10,000 > > > hours > > > > > > > > > Bulb Type: T12 > > > > > > > > > Base Type: Medium > > Bi-Pin > > > > > > > > > Color: Plant > > > > > > > > > CRI: 61 > > > > > > > > > Length: 24 inches > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > If any of the > above > > have > > > much > > > > better > > > > > lumens than your > > > > > > > > current > > > > > > > > > lighting... > > > > > > > > > and they all have > better > > K > > > > ratings, > > > > > then any of them > > > > > > > > would be better > > > > > > > > > for you... but you > > would > > > still be > > > > stuck > > > > > with only 20 > > > > > > > > watts but it's > > > > > > > > > the LUMENS and K > rating > > that > > > count > > > > more > > > > > than watts. > > > > > > > > You need to find > > > > > > > > > out the lumens on > your > > bulb. > > > Try > > > > to > > > > > find it on the > > > > > > > > DFS site and let > > > > > > > > > us know. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > You should look at > the > > > > AHSupply.com > > > > > place for a > > > > > > > > retrofit kit so you > > > > > > > > > can use CFL's in > your > > > current > > > > hood. > > > > > That would > > > > > > > > probably be your least > > > > > > > > > expensive option. I > know > > you > > > don't > > > > like > > > > > electricity > > > > > > > > but I'm sure you > > > > > > > > > know someone that > could > > do > > > this > > > > for > > > > > you... on the > > > > > > > > cheap... or over a > > > > > > > > > 6-pack. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > > > > > > > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > > > > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > > > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>> > > > > > > (Links to > > > > > > > > any articles > > > > > > > > > referenced in > above > > reply > > > are > > > > listed on > > > > > the right > > > > > > > > side, alphabetically > > > > > > > > > under Labels and > also > > under > > > > Archives by > > > > > Year, Month) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -----Original > > Message----- > > > > > > > > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > > > > > > > > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > > > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > > > > > > > > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] > > > > > > > > > On > > > > > > > > > Behalf Of bill > 1433 > > > > > > > > > Sent: Wednesday, > > November 11, > > > 2009 > > > > 9:33 > > > > > AM > > > > > > > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > > > > > > > > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > > > Subject: RE: > > [AquaticLife] > > > Re: > > > > > wisteria/lighting > > > > > > > > previous > > > > > > > > > question/response > > > > > > > > > revisited > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Hi \\Steve// > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > At this point, and > also > > to > > > refresh > > > > your > > > > > mind, and > > > > > > > > anyone > > > > > > > > > else on the group > > > > > > > > > that may have > interest. > > This > > > all > > > > got > > > > > started with > > > > > > > > my > > > > > > > > > search for a tube > that > > > > > > > > > would allow me > more > > light > > > output > > > > from > > > > > an All Glass > > > > > > > > Plastic > > > > > > > > > hood and light. > > > > > > > > > This unit comes > with a > > "color > > > type > > > > tube > > > > > at 17 watts > > > > > > > > that is > > > > > > > > > only 24 inches > > > > > > > > > long. This is for > a > > > 20/29-gallon > > > > tank. > > > > > I was stupid enough to buy > > > > > > > > > two of them, one > for > > each > > > tank. > > > > For > > > > > further inspection > > > > > > > > here > > > > > > > > > is the light: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > http://www.drsfostersmith.com/product/prod_display.cfm?pcatid=13447 > > > > > > > > > > > > > <http://www.drsfostersmith.com/product/prod_display.cfm?pcatid=13447> > > > > > > > > > <http://www.drsfostersmith.com/product/prod_display.cfm?pcatid=13447 > > > > > > > > > > > > > <http://www.drsfostersmith.com/product/prod_display.cfm?pcatid=13447>> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > For those that > would > > like to > > > > aggravate > > > > > themselves > > > > > > > > further, > > > > > > > > > I can also state > > > > > > > > > that these hoods > are > > very > > > > conducive to > > > > > growing Black Algae! > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Summoning up, I > should > > have > > > only > > > > > purchased an > > > > > > > > All-Glass > > > > > > > > > cover and then > > > > > > > > > probably a double > tube > > light > > > of > > > > > sufficient wattage to > > > > > > > > bring > > > > > > > > > me up to the > > > > > > > > > recommended 2 or 3 > watts > > per > > > > gallon. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Ya live and learn, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Bill > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > --- On Tue, > 11/10/09, > > Steve > > > Szabo > > > > > <steve@... > > > > > > > > > > > > <mailto:steve%40familyszabo.com> > > > > > > > > > > <mailto:steve%40familyszabo.com>> > > > > > > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > From: Steve > Szabo > > <steve@... > > > > > > > > > > > > <mailto:steve%40familyszabo.com> > > > > > > > > > > <mailto:steve%40familyszabo.com>> > > > > > > > > > > Subject: RE: > > > [AquaticLife] > > > > Re: > > > > > wisteria/lighting > > > > > > > > > previous > > > > > > > > > > > question/response > > > revisited > > > > > > > > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > > > > > > > > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > > > > Date: > Tuesday, > > November > > > 10, > > > > 2009, > > > > > 11:50 PM Bill, > > > > > > > > you > > > > > > > > > got it right! The > > > > > > > > > > T numbers > represent > > the > > > > diameter > > > > > of the bulb in > > > > > > > > 1/8" > > > > > > > > > increments. A T4 > > > > > > > > > > is a bulb 1/2" > in > > > diameter, > > > > T5 is > > > > > 5/8", t8 is > > > > > > > > 1" and > > > > > > > > > a t12 is 1 1/2". > > > > > > > > > > As I recall, > the F > > is > > > the > > > > wattage > > > > > of the bulb. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Lumens, not > > usually > > > stated on > > > > the > > > > > bulb is the > > > > > > > > actual > > > > > > > > > amount of light > > > > > > > > > > coming from > the > > bulb. > > > It > > > > really > > > > > does not have > > > > > > > > anything > > > > > > > > > to do with > > > > > > > > > > watts, though > more > > watts > > > will > > > > give > > > > > you more > > > > > > > > lumens, > > > > > > > > > but, also the > > > > > > > > > > phosphors used > in > > the > > > bulb > > > > affect > > > > > the amount of > > > > > > > > lumen > > > > > > > > > output. Lumens > > > > > > > > > > and lux are > often > > used > > > > > interchangeably, but they > > > > > > > > are > > > > > > > > > really different > > > > > > > > > > measurements. > Lux > > is > > > the > > > > measure > > > > > of illumination > > > > > > > > over > > > > > > > > > a given area. It > > > > > > > > > > may actually > be > > more > > > > important to > > > > > aquarists > > > > > > > > raising > > > > > > > > > plants than the > > > > > > > > > > lumen output. > Lux > > is > > > what is > > > > > measured by a light > > > > > > > > > meter, for anyone > who > > > > > > > > > > happens to > know > > what > > > they > > > > are--not > > > > > often seen > > > > > > > > with > > > > > > > > > today's cameras > and > > > > > > > > > > > photographers. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Color > temperature > > is > > > > important. > > > > > Average daylight > > > > > > > > > (except may in > > > > > > > > > > Amber's area > where > > they > > > have > > > > 6 > > > > > months of > > > > > > > > darkness) has > > > > > > > > > a color > > > > > > > > > > temperature > of > > > 5500-6000. > > > > > > > > > > An overcast > day can > > have > > > a > > > > color > > > > > temperature of > > > > > > > > 6500. > > > > > > > > > As mentioned > > > > > > > > > > earlier, > plants > > need > > > light in > > > > two > > > > > color > > > > > > > > spectrums, > > > > > > > > > and, actually they > > > > > > > > > > are rather > narrow > > spans > > > of > > > > > wavelengths they > > > > > > > > benefit > > > > > > > > > from. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I thought I > had a > > > bookmark > > > > > explaining this, but > > > > > > > > I > > > > > > > > > can't find it > > > > > > > > > > quickly (over > 400K > > of > > > > bookmarks, > > > > > and things have > > > > > > > > a > > > > > > > > > tendency to get > > > > > > > > > > lost), > however, > > some > > > > judicial > > > > > Googling will gain > > > > > > > > you > > > > > > > > > the information. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > \\Steve// > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -----Original > > > Message----- > > > > > > > > > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > > > > > > > > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > > > > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > > > > > > > > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] > > > > > > > > > > On > > > > > > > > > > Behalf Of > bill > > 1433 > > > > > > > > > > Sent: > Tuesday, > > November > > > 10, > > > > 2009 > > > > > 10:20 PM > > > > > > > > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > > > > > > > > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > > > > Subject: Re: > > > [AquaticLife] > > > > Re: > > > > > wisteria/lighting > > > > > > > > > previous > > > > > > > > > > > question/response > > > revisited > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Yes, Amber > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > It was I, > looking > > for > > > the > > > > original > > > > > information > > > > > > > > and > > > > > > > > > also looked back > on > > > > > > > > > > \\Steve//'s > post > > at > > > group to > > > > try > > > > > and find. Ray > > > > > > > > had > > > > > > > > > mentioned all this > > > > > > > > > > the other day > > saying > > > that he > > > > > thought the posting > > > > > > > > came > > > > > > > > > from \\Steve//. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I was not > > successful in > > > my > > > > search. > > > > > Also, for me > > > > > > > > the > > > > > > > > > most important > > > > > > > > > > part was a > link to > > a > > > chart > > > > which > > > > > showed you > > > > > > > > exactly, > > > > > > > > > or explained > > > > > > > > > > exactly the > "T" > > > > > > > > > > factor stands > for. > > For > > > > instance, > > > > > T-4 would be a > > > > > > > > tube > > > > > > > > > that is a half > > > > > > > > > > inch wide, or > close > > to > > > > > it-----------I think. > > > > > > > > All > > > > > > > > > this is my own > > > > > > > > > > fault. In my > > interest > > > to > > > > acquire > > > > > and learn > > > > > > > > about > > > > > > > > > lighting,I went > > > > > > > > > > through and > studied > > the > > > > applied > > > > > links but being > > > > > > > > > ol'bill, I never > > > > > > > > > > bookmarked > them. > > > > > > > > > > Then to > further > > > > > > > > > > compound the > > problem, I > > > > deleted > > > > > the original > > > > > > > > message > > > > > > > > > that it came > > > > > > > > > > from. In > hind-sight > > you > > > > could > > > > > probably chalk > > > > > > > > this > > > > > > > > > all up to > felonious > > > > > > > > > > stupidity on > my > > part. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Bill---where > its > > always > > > a > > > > good day > > > > > if I learn > > > > > > > > > something new! > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > --- On Tue, > > 11/10/09, > > > Amber > > > > > Berglund <arberglund@... > > > > > > > > > > > > <mailto:arberglund%40gmail.com> > > > > > > > > > > <mailto:arberglund%40gmail.com>> > > > > > > > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > From: Amber > > Berglund > > > <arberglund@... > > > > > > > > > > > > <mailto:arberglund%40gmail.com> > > > > > > > > > > <mailto:arberglund%40gmail.com>> > > > > > > > > > > Subject: Re: > > > [AquaticLife] > > > > Re: > > > > > wisteria/lighting > > > > > > > > > previous > > > > > > > > > > > question/response > > > revisited > > > > > > > > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > > > > > > > > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > > > > Date: > Tuesday, > > November > > > 10, > > > > 2009, > > > > > 9:30 PM > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I believe it > was > > Steve > > > who > > > > posted > > > > > a link about > > > > > > > > lumens > > > > > > > > > months back when > > > > > > > > > > (I think it > was > > maybe > > > Bill > > > > asking) > > > > > about lighting > > > > > > > > for > > > > > > > > > planted > > > > > > > > > > aquariums. > > > > > > > > > > Plants require > 2 > > > different > > > > > spectrums of light to > > > > > > > > > properly produce > > > > > > > > > > either leaves > or > > flowers > > > (red > > > > is > > > > > more for flower > > > > > > > > > production and > blue > > > > > > > > > > is more for > growth, > > but > > > for > > > > the > > > > > best growing you > > > > > > > > want > > > > > > > > > a mixture of > > > > > > > > > > BOTH colors). > > > > > > > > > > So in reality > you > > would > > > want > > > > a > > > > > light that appears > > > > > > > > more > > > > > > > > > brown/reddish > > > > > > > > > > in coloring > and a > > > blue/white > > > > > coloring as well, > > > > > > > > but > > > > > > > > > they now have > bulbs > > > > > > > > > > that have > BOTH > > > spectrums > > > > built in > > > > > (I'm sure they > > > > > > > > don't > > > > > > > > > work as well as > > > > > > > > > > it would to > have 2 > > > different > > > > bulbs > > > > > one mostly red > > > > > > > > and > > > > > > > > > the other mostly > > > > > > > > > > blue on the > color > > > spectrum). > > > > > > > > > > Let me see if > I > > still > > > have > > > > the > > > > > link bookmarked. > > > > > > > > > > What I was > trying > > to say > > > is > > > > that > > > > > Kelvin does not > > > > > > > > tell > > > > > > > > > you what color > > > > > > > > > > spectrum the > light > > > REALLY is, > > > > it's > > > > > actually > > > > > > > > measuring > > > > > > > > > it's light > > > > > > > > > > output color > > according > > > to how > > > > the > > > > > human eyes > > > > > > > > perceive > > > > > > > > > it. So 6500 > > > > > > > > > > kelvin in > general > > is > > > what > > > > most > > > > > plants will > > > > > > > > prefer > > > > > > > > > because that is a > > > > > > > > > > mixture of > both red > > and > > > blue > > > > > spectrums (In MOST > > > > > > > > bulbs) > > > > > > > > > unfortunately > > > > > > > > > > not all light > bulb > > > > manufactures > > > > > have to use the > > > > > > > > exact > > > > > > > > > same chart for > > > > > > > > > > their colors, > so > > they > > > will > > > > have > > > > > different colors > > > > > > > > than > > > > > > > > > another bulb > > > > > > > > > > that says > it's > > 6500 > > > Kelvin. > > > > what > > > > > you really need > > > > > > > > to > > > > > > > > > read is the color > > > > > > > > > > chart on the > box, > > not > > > what > > > > lumens > > > > > it says it is. > > > > > > > > > > (still > searching > > for > > > link, > > > > LOL). > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > This isn't > the > > right > > > link but > > > > it > > > > > discusses the > > > > > > > > > kelvin/lumen > problems a > > > > > > > > > > little bit, > still > > > looking for > > > > the > > > > > link that > > > > > > > > showed the > > > > > > > > > charts and what > > > > > > > > > > to look for in > the > > > color > > > > charts. > > > > > > > > > > > > http://www.americanaquariumproducts.com/Aquarium_Lighting.html > > > > > > > > > > > <http://www.americanaquariumproducts.com/Aquarium_Lighting.html> > > > > > > > <http://www.americanaquariumproducts.com/Aquarium_Lighting.html > > > > > > > > > > > <http://www.americanaquariumproducts.com/Aquarium_Lighting.html>> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Will post > again > > when I > > > find > > > > the > > > > > other link with > > > > > > > > chart > > > > > > > > > examples. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Amber > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Lenny V. aka > > GoldLenny > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I think > it > > would > > > be > > > > false > > > > > advertising or > > > > > > > > > possibly > > > > > > > > > > > mis-advertising > > (if > > > they > > > > > > > > > > > do not > know > > any > > > better) > > > > if a > > > > > company lists > > > > > > > > their > > > > > > > > > bulbs > > > > > > > > > > as 6500K and > they > > > > > > > > > > > aren't. > The > > Kelvin > > > > scale, > > > > > just like Watts > > > > > > > > and > > > > > > > > > Lumens, > > > > > > > > > > are ALL > > > > > > > > > > > universal > and > > > > > > > > > > > > > scientifically > > > > measurable > > > > > scales BUT, as I > > > > > > > > > showed > > > > > > > > > > below, not all > 40 > > watt > > > > > > > > > > > bulbs put > out > > the > > > same > > > > amount > > > > > of light > > > > > > > > (lumens) > > > > > > > > > or in > > > > > > > > > > the same > color > > > > > > > > > > > spectrum > > (Kelvin > > > > rating). All > > > > > 40 watt > > > > > > > > bulbs, > > > > > > > > > whether > > > > > > > > > > incandescent, > > > > > > > > > > > > fluorescent, > > CFL, > > > LED, > > > > > Halogen, etc.... ALL > > > > > > > > use > > > > > > > > > > only/around > 40 > > watts of > > > > > > > > > > > > electricity > > but > > > their > > > > light > > > > > output can vary > > > > > > > > > > dramatically. > This > > is > > > why > > > > > > > > > > > > fluorescent > > bulbs > > > are so > > > > much > > > > > more > > > > > > > > efficient > > > > > > > > > than > > > > > > > > > > incandescent > bulbs > > and > > > > > > > > > > > CFL's > are > > even > > > more > > > > > efficient... as a 40W > > > > > > > > > fluorescent > > > > > > > > > > bulb puts out > a > > LOT > > > > > > > > > > > more > light > > (lumens) > > > than > > > > a 40 > > > > > watt > > > > > > > > incandescent > > > > > > > > > bulb > > > > > > > > > > and a 40W CFL > > > > > > > > > > > puts out > > > > > > > > > > > more > light > > (lumens) > > > than > > > > a > > > > > 40W fluorescent > > > > > > > > bulb. > > > > > > > > > This > > > > > > > > > > is why the > OLD > > > > > > > > > > > "Watts > > > > > > > > > > > Per > Gallon" > > rule > > > simply > > > > does > > > > > not work any > > > > > > > > more. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > BUT.. if > > three > > > > different > > > > > companies are > > > > > > > > selling > > > > > > > > > > standard T-10 > > > fluorescent > > > > > > > > > > > bulbs > with > > the > > > same > > > > exact > > > > > rating of 40W, > > > > > > > > 3550 > > > > > > > > > lumens > > > > > > > > > > and 6500K > > > > > > > > > > > rating... > all > > > > > > > > > > > three of > > those > > > bulbs > > > > should > > > > > be VERY SIMILAR > > > > > > > > if > > > > > > > > > not > > > > > > > > > > identical in > the > > > > > > > > > > > way they > > > > > > > > > > > appear to > our > > eyes > > > > (subject > > > > > to our own > > > > > > > > degree of > > > > > > > > > color > > > > > > > > > > blindness, of > > > > > > > > > > > course!) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > In the > past, > > > things > > > > like > > > > > "soft white", > > > > > > > > "warm > > > > > > > > > white", > > > > > > > > > > "daylight", > "plant > > > > > > > > > > > grow", > etc., > > type > > > terms > > > > were > > > > > used and are > > > > > > > > still > > > > > > > > > used > > > > > > > > > > but those are > just > > > > > > > > > > > simple > words > > (not > > > > subject to > > > > > a scientific > > > > > > > > scale) > > > > > > > > > to > > > > > > > > > > describe the > > Kelvin > > > > > > > > > > > rating > ranges > > but > > > lumens > > > > are > > > > > just as > > > > > > > > important > > > > > > > > > since a > > > > > > > > > > bulb could > have a > > > > > > > > > > > 6500K > rating > > with > > > only > > > > 2200 > > > > > lumens where > > > > > > > > another > > > > > > > > > bulb > > > > > > > > > > could have a > 6500K > > > > > > > > > > > rating > and > > 3550 or > > > 3700 > > > > > lumens and that > > > > > > > > bulb > > > > > > > > > would put > > > > > > > > > > out over 50% > more > > > > > > > > > > > light > (lumens) > > in > > > the > > > > same > > > > > color spectrum > > > > > > > > > (Kelvin > > > > > > > > > > rating) so it > would > > be > > > a > > > > > > > > > > > much > more > > cost > > > effective > > > > bulb > > > > > if it cost > > > > > > > > the > > > > > > > > > same > > > > > > > > > > amount or only > a > > little > > > > > > > > > > > more. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I'm > slightly > > > confused > > > > about > > > > > the "red and > > > > > > > > blue > > > > > > > > > light > > > > > > > > > > for your > plants" > > as > > > > > > > > > > > those > two > > colors > > > are on > > > > > opposite ends of > > > > > > > > the > > > > > > > > > Kelvin > > > > > > > > > > Scale with > reds > > and > > > > > > > > > > > ambers in > the > > > lower > > > > numbers > > > > > and greens and > > > > > > > > blues > > > > > > > > > in > > > > > > > > > > the higher > numbers. > > I > > > > > > > > > > > think > this is > > why > > > you > > > > would > > > > > want a > > > > > > > > mid-range > > > > > > > > > (5000K to > > > > > > > > > > 6500K) bulb > as > > > > > > > > > > > those > > > > > > > > > > > are > generally > > > > considered > > > > > "full spectrum" or > > > > > > > > > "daylight" > > > > > > > > > > bulbs. Here's > a > > > > > > > > > > > color > picture > > of > > > the > > > > Kelvin > > > > > Scale, > > > > > > > > > > > http://www.bltdirect.com/images/colour-temperature.jpg > > > > > > > > > > > <http://www.bltdirect.com/images/colour-temperature.jpg> > > > > > > > <http://www.bltdirect.com/images/colour-temperature.jpg > > > > > > > > > > > <http://www.bltdirect.com/images/colour-temperature.jpg>> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > <http://www.bltdirect.com/images/colour-temperature.jpg > > > > > > > > > > > <http://www.bltdirect.com/images/colour-temperature.jpg> > > > > > > > <http://www.bltdirect.com/images/colour-temperature.jpg > > > > > > > > > > > <http://www.bltdirect.com/images/colour-temperature.jpg>>> > > > > > > > > > > and you can > > > > > > > > > > > visually > > > > > > > > > > > see that > the > > 5000K > > > to > > > > 6500K > > > > > range is all > > > > > > > > about > > > > > > > > > the > > > > > > > > > > same "color". > I > > think > > > > > > > > > > > this is > also > > why > > > > Actinic > > > > > bulbs are usually > > > > > > > > higher > > > > > > > > > and > > > > > > > > > > closer to the > > 10000K > > > > > > > > > > > range > and > > up... > > > > apparently, > > > > > the Kelvin > > > > > > > > lighting > > > > > > > > > scale > > > > > > > > > > can go up to > > 20,000K > > > > > > > > > > > > (according to > > this > > > > article > > > > > about Reef Tanks > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > http://nh.craigslist.org/for/1423072406.html > > > > > > <http://nh.craigslist.org/for/1423072406.html> > > > > > > > <http://nh.craigslist.org/for/1423072406.html > > > > > > <http://nh.craigslist.org/for/1423072406.html>> > > > > > > > > > > > <http://nh.craigslist.org/for/1423072406.html > > > > > > <http://nh.craigslist.org/for/1423072406.html> > > > > > > > <http://nh.craigslist.org/for/1423072406.html > > > > > > <http://nh.craigslist.org/for/1423072406.html>>> > > > > > on, > > > > > > > > > of > > > > > > > > > > all places, > > > > > > > > > > > > Craigslist). > > > > > > > > > > > Here is > the > > page > > > that > > > > that > > > > > the above photo > > > > > > > > link > > > > > > > > > came > > > > > > > > > > from and it > has a > > > > > > > > > > > chart > > > > > > > > > > > that > also > > explains > > > > things a > > > > > little more also > > > > > > > > and > > > > > > > > > talks > > > > > > > > > > about the CRI, > yet > > > > > > > > > > > another > > lighting > > > term > > > > (Color > > > > > Rendition > > > > > > > > Index). > > > > > > > > > > > http://www.bltdirect.com/lampColourTemperatures.php > > > > > > <http://www.bltdirect.com/lampColourTemperatures.php> > > > > > > > <http://www.bltdirect.com/lampColourTemperatures.php > > > > > > <http://www.bltdirect.com/lampColourTemperatures.php>> > > > > > > > > > > > <http://www.bltdirect.com/lampColourTemperatures.php > > > > > > <http://www.bltdirect.com/lampColourTemperatures.php> > > > > > > > <http://www.bltdirect.com/lampColourTemperatures.php > > > > > > <http://www.bltdirect.com/lampColourTemperatures.php>>> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Lenny > > Vasbinder > > > > > > > > > > > Fish Blog > - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > > > > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > > > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>> > > > > > > > > > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > > > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>>> > > > > (Links > > > > > > > > > to any articles > > referenced > > > in > > > > > > > > > > > above > reply > > are > > > > > > > > > > listed on the > > right > > > > > > > > > > > side, > > > alphabetically > > > > under > > > > > Labels and also > > > > > > > > under > > > > > > > > > > Archives by > Year, > > > Month) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -----Original > > > > Message----- > > > > > > > > > > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > > > > > > > > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > > > > > > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > > > > > > > > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogrou<br/><br/>(Message over 64 KB, truncated)

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 44475	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 11/12/2009
Subject: Re: Question about eating snails

On applesnail.net it says not to eat the intestines and eggs because they taste bad, so that makes enough sense to me to not eat them ;) LOL Amber Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > > Why don't they eat the rest? > > Down here, with inverts and crustaceans, we eat the whole thing... with > boiled crawfish, we suck the heads, then pinch the tails (or with soft > shell > crawfish, we eat the whole thing fried)... we eat raw oysters in their > entirety (innards and all) also when fried... and nothings better than a > fried soft shell crab po-boy, which means we're eating all of their > innards > too. MMMMMMMMMM... I could go on and on but I'm getting hungry now so I'm > off to get some lunch. > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right > side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On > Behalf Of Amber Berglund > Sent: Thursday, November 12, 2009 12:03 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Question about eating snails > > Okay back to eating snails (darn people hijacking my thread ;) LOL). > Could it be that it's safer to eat snails even if you use dechlor because > you only eat the foot of the snail and not the intestines, etc? > Just a thought, > Amber > > Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > > > > Are you sure that wasn't a DERF shirt > > http://www.zazzle.com/derf_tshirt-235652671296243847 > <http://www.zazzle.com/derf_tshirt-235652671296243847> > > <http://www.zazzle.com/derf_tshirt-235652671296243847 > <http://www.zazzle.com/derf_tshirt-235652671296243847>> and you were > > just looking in the mirror? This one even comes with your picture on > > it. ;-) > > > > Kind of like them people who have REKCUS written on their foreheads. > > ;-) > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>> > (Links to any articles referenced in > > above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels > > and also under Archives by Year, Month) > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On Behalf Of Steve Szabo > > Sent: Tuesday, November 10, 2009 10:08 PM > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Question about eating snails > > > > Amber, > > > > No, I don't have to. Some of the shirts come with names already on them. > > That one happened to be Fred. He had his name embroidered right over > > his left pocket. They are hard to come by. I've only seen them at > Sallie's. > > > > \\Steve// > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On Behalf Of Amber Berglund > > Sent: Tuesday, November 10, 2009 9:20 PM > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Question about eating snails > > > > Actually no, but that one looks good ;) LOL Wait... you name your > shirts? > > What's your favorite shirt named right now? LOL > > > > Amber > > > > Steve Szabo wrote: > > > > > > Ws this the recipe? > > > > > > ESCARGOTS A LA FETTUCCINI > > > > > > 24 (7 1/2 oz. can) very lg. sized escargots, drained > > > 4 tbsp. butter > > > 1-2 garlic cloves, minced > > > 1/2 pt. heavy cream > > > 1/2 c. grated Parmesan cheese > > > 1 pkg. frozen peas > > > Salt and pepper > > > 1 lb. fettuccini > > > > > > Drain escargots, melt butter in heavy saucepan and sauté escargot > > > and garlic for 3 minutes. Pour in heavy cream and simmer until > > > mixture thickens slightly. Add grated cheese, peas and seasonings. > > > Cook a few minutes longer until escargots and sauce are hot. Do not > overcook. > > > > > > While sauce is cooking place fettuccini in a pot of boiling (salted) > > > water. > > > Cook 3-4 minutes. Drain pasta and mix with escargots sauce until > > > pasta is well coated. > > > > > > I once had a shirt named Fred. > > > > > > \\Steve// > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On Behalf Of Amber Berglund > > > Sent: Tuesday, November 10, 2009 5:17 PM > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Question about eating snails > > > > > > Actually if you look on applesnail.net they list recipe's for eating > > > your snails, LOL. > > > And do dead snails even have guts? LOL. > > > There are 3 drivers (for now, soon to be 4 hopefully), so they'll > > > have to narrow it down by names, so I'll have to wear a name tag > > > that says, "Hello my name is Fred" or something, LOL. > > > > > > Amber > > > > > > Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > > > > > > > > Ummmm.. you (or rather your friend) shouldn't do this. Most > > > > dechlor products EXPLICITLY advise against eating ornamental fish > > > > (and probably critters too) that are kept in waters treated with a > > > > dechlor product. I think the chemicals used in dechlors cause > > > > health problems, although I doubt that five snails would matter. I > > > > think it's more for fish farms that > > > might > > > > think about using Sodium Thiosulphate as their dechlor if they did > > > > not have a natural water source for the fish stock ponds. > > > > > > > > As far as the different taste, could it be like other meats... > > > chicken for > > > > example, where the dark meat is much different in taste and > > > > texture than white meat? > > > > > > > > Also, for your health, please do not post this on the > > > > Applesnail.net forums.. you know them folks are zealous about > > > > their snails. They might hunt you down and throw dead snail guts > > > > on you. LOL They might even > > > form a > > > > new radical group called PeTS... People for the Ethical Treatment > > > > of Snails. > > > > LOL And if they can't find you, they might go after every other > > > > delivery truck on your island. BTW... are you the only driver or > > > > is Ketchikan big enough for two FedEx trucks? LOL > > > > > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>> > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>>> > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>> > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>>>> > > > > (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the > > > > right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by > > > > Year, > > > Month) > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On Behalf Of Amber > > > > Berglund > > > > Sent: Tuesday, November 10, 2009 10:59 AM > > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > Subject: [AquaticLife] Question about eating snails > > > > > > > > Okay so a friend of mine was inquiring about my mystery snails for > > > eating > > > > purposes. Since I have a mass quantity of the happy little guys > > > > and > > > gals I > > > > figured I would give him all my large snails that are fully grown. > > > > He ended up with 5 and cooked them up as spaghetti. Now my > > > > question is this; why would the dark footed (purple) mystery > > > > snails taste much saltier > > > than the > > > > ones with white feet? > > > > > > > > Sorry to offend anyone at the idea of eating snails, I've had to > > > > do a survival trip in my lifetime and had to survive off of > > > > limpets, so I'm sure they taste similar to limpets when cooked up, > > > > so it doesn't really > > > offend > > > > me, LOL. > > > > Not to mention the little guys are threatening to breed me out of > > > > house and home ;) LOL. > > > > > > > > Amber > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ------------------------------------ > > > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, > Thank You. > > ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , > > .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT > > that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the > > original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: > > old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , > > .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. > > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. > > > > If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of unsubscribing, > > you can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My > > Membership" on the home page. > > > > Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:aquaticlife-digest%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:aquaticlife-digest%40yahoogroups.com> to receive the digest, > > which includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email > > > > Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:aquaticlife-nomail%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:aquaticlife-nomail%40yahoogroups.com> for the No E-Mail option > > where you will still be able to read messages on the group and post > > replies. > > > > Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:aquaticlife-normal%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:aquaticlife-normal%40yahoogroups.com> to receive individual > > e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > ------------------------------------ > > > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, > Thank You. > > ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , > > .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT > > that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the > > original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: > > old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , > > .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. > > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. > > > > If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of unsubscribing, > > you can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My > > Membership" on the home page. > > > > Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:aquaticlife-digest%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:aquaticlife-digest%40yahoogroups.com> to receive the digest, > > which includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email > > > > Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:aquaticlife-nomail%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:aquaticlife-nomail%40yahoogroups.com> for the No E-Mail option > > where you will still be able to read messages on the group and post > > replies. > > > > Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:aquaticlife-normal%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:aquaticlife-normal%40yahoogroups.com> to receive individual > > e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > ------------------------------------ > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. > ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> > PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to > the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the > SUBJECT > LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- > <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. > > If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of unsubscribing, you > can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the > home page. > > Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:aquaticlife-digest%40yahoogroups.com> to receive the digest, which > includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email > > Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:aquaticlife-nomail%40yahoogroups.com> for the No E-Mail option > where > you will still be able to read messages on the group and post replies. > > Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:aquaticlife-normal%40yahoogroups.com> to receive individual > e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 44476	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 11/12/2009
Subject: Re: wisteria/lighting previous question/response revisited

I can see Bill ending up with MTS at some point, are you urging him that way Lenny? LOL I started with a 10, got a 55, then a 125, then another 10 for a Q tank, which ended up a plant tank, then another Q tank (10 gallons), and then finally another 55 gallon to put the nasty Angel fish into ;) I think Santa would go on strike if I asked for another fish tank, LOL. Amber Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > > Bulb diameter is easy. Take the bulb and place it over a ruler/tape > measurer and look straight down on it. It should be easy to discern > between > 1/2" (T-4) and 1" (T-8) and the T-5 (5/8") uses a completely different > single pin on each end so that would eliminate that bulb. Or better yet.. > take your bulb to the WalMart and compare apples to apples and you'll then > know exactly what you have and also be able to see what your local WalMart > offers as far as better bulbs. You can probably get much more lighting > with > a new $5.00 to $10.00 bulb. > > Then Santa can still bring you the bigger tank and accessories and your > other tanks will also be far more functional in case you choose to > sell them > or just have more tanks. As far as selling your unused stuff, > CraigsList.org is free and you can renew the ad every week until you find > the right buyer who is willing to pay the best price you can get. > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right > side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On > Behalf Of bill 1433 > Sent: Thursday, November 12, 2009 2:27 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: wisteria/lighting previous > question/response > revisited > > Bulb Diameter Len, and now you see my problem. I haven't found any either. > Also reading and studying all that you have sent me so far I come away > from > all of this with one single thought, is it worth it? > > With all this being said and it so close to the time for a visit from > "Santa", I'm wondering if I should not put all you have taught me to > better > use by just getting something like a standard 55-gallon tank! These lights > do cost a bit but there is not a huge different between size vs. cost > from a > 29 to a 55. Then to is the issue of what to do with the plastic covers I > already have should I go to the all glass covers. > > Sell them, sure but to whom? Remember, I'm the guy that has a hard time > just trying to find a place to buy fish around here, there just aren't > that > many places or people. No matter what I do, I promise to keep you posted. > > Thanks for all you've taught and helped me with, > > Bill > > --- On Thu, 11/12/09, Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@... > <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com>> wrote: > > > From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@... > <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com>> > > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: wisteria/lighting previous > question/response revisited > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > Date: Thursday, November 12, 2009, 2:42 PM > > Once again Bill.... you need to get > > away from the "Watts" mindset. It's > > just not applicable with the wide array of bulbs available > > nowadays. That > > link goes to a CFL light strip and 65 watts of CFL lighting > > is a LOT, LOT, > > LOT (3 LOTS) more lighting than 65 watts of an incandescent > > bulb and a LOT, > > LOT (2 LOTS) more lighting than a 65W normal fluorescent > > bulb. This would > > probably increase your lighting by 10X's over what you have > > now. If you > > just went with 20W (range) CFL's, you'd get 2-3X's more > > light than you > > currently have. > > > > You still need to do some more research on your current > > bulbs to find out > > the specs on them. Without knowing your current > > specs, it's difficult to > > know how much more lighting you might want/need. > > > > Since you got your fixture and bulbs from DFS, I just did a > > search of '17 > > watt fluorescent' and four bulbs came up.. one was a CFL so > > that wasn't it > > and the other three are below BUT none of them are T-4's... > > in fact, so far, > > I have not been able to find a T-4, 17W bulb > > anywhere. What are you > > measuring to come up with the 1/2" figure? Bulb > > diameter, pin separation or > > other??? > > > > http://www.drsfostersmith.com/product/prod_display.cfm?pcatid=3787 > <http://www.drsfostersmith.com/product/prod_display.cfm?pcatid=3787> > > (24", > > T-8, 5500K, nothing for lumens) > > > > http://www.drsfostersmith.com/product/prod_display.cfm?pcatid=4491 > <http://www.drsfostersmith.com/product/prod_display.cfm?pcatid=4491> > > (24", > > T-8, Actinic 420nm, nothing for lumens) > > > > http://www.drsfostersmith.com/product/prod_display.cfm?pcatid=4489 > <http://www.drsfostersmith.com/product/prod_display.cfm?pcatid=4489> > > (24", > > T-8, 6500K, nothing for lumens) > > > > You need to take your bulb out and go to a local lighting > > store (department) > > or even the Walmart and see if they can give you more info > > on it or at least > > you might find identical sized bulbs that do have specs on > > them so you can > > be more informed about what you have. > > > > While I was at the DFS site, and since you previously > > mentioned that you > > have an All-Glass hood that came with the one bulb light > > strip, I did a > > search on DFS for 'All-Glass light' and found this link for > > the only single > > bulb light strip that All-Glass has on DFS' site. > > > > http://www.drsfostersmith.com/product/prod_display.cfm?pcatid=3793 > <http://www.drsfostersmith.com/product/prod_display.cfm?pcatid=3793> > > > > It comes in 16" or 20" lengths. There's a link to > > "View compatible Bulbs" > > in the Description tab, which brings up a page of bulbs and > > ALL of the ones > > compatible for the 20" strip are T-8 bulbs. There are > > a couple of dozen > > bulbs listed so I didn't go through them and unfortunately, > > they do NOT list > > the wattage on that list so I wasn't able to find any 17W > > bulbs without > > checking a bunch of links. Since it was an All-Glass > > fixture, I did click > > on the first All-Glass brand bulb which brought up this > > page... > > > > http://www.drsfostersmith.com/product/prod_display.cfm?pcatid=12850 > <http://www.drsfostersmith.com/product/prod_display.cfm?pcatid=12850> > > > > And you will see that there is either an 18", 15W bulb or a > > 24", 17W bulb, > > as well as others... and these are the 8000K bulbs which > > were listed in the > > description on the website link that you posted earlier > > BUT.. these are ALL > > T-8 bulbs, not T-4's so we're back to that spec issue > > again. This page does > > call them 8000K Daylight, Full Spectrum bulbs so maybe they > > are OK but I > > wish that the DFS site would list lumens since that is a > > critical, > > need-to-know piece of information that is missing. As > > seen in my previous > > posts, the same sized bulbs can have a lumen output that is > > 50% to 100% > > higher than a comparable bulb of the same size... and that > > makes a HUGE > > difference in lighting. > > > > Once again, take the bulb to your WalMart and compare > > apples to apples and > > find out exactly what size bulb you have and while there, > > look at other > > identical sized bulbs and look for the highest lumens in > > the 5000K to 6500K > > range, buy one and bring it home and see if it's a LOT > > brighter than what > > you now have. If so, that might do the trick. > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed > > on the right > > side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives > > by Year, Month) > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] > > On > > Behalf Of bill 1433 > > Sent: Thursday, November 12, 2009 12:12 PM > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: wisteria/lighting previous > > question/response > > revisited > > > > Hi Amber, > > > > The links Len provided are very close BUT it's the ends of > > the tube or pins > > that worry me. They are very close but "how"? > > > > Meaning this buying the tube, ok by mail? Now what if > > it doesn't work? > > Rreturn a $10.00 tube the postage would cost more. > > I'm trying to work > > backward now from Len's link, and get a manufacture so I > > can buy around > > here. Also I'm getting made enough now to scrape the > > whole thing and just > > get a new All-Glass cover then maybe one of these: > > > > > > > http://www.drsfostersmith.com/product/prod_display.cfm?c=3578+3733+9654+9871 > <http://www.drsfostersmith.com/product/prod_display.cfm?c=3578+3733+9654+9871> > > &pcatid=9871 > > > > This link is not pointing to the exact Coralife product I > > want at Doctors > > its # apn-16981, if you have their catalog but I can't make > > it come up on > > search at their site. It is a single rated at 65 > > watts and is 24". > > > > Bill > > --- On Thu, 11/12/09, Amber Berglund <arberglund@... > <mailto:arberglund%40gmail.com>> > > wrote: > > > > > From: Amber Berglund <arberglund@... > <mailto:arberglund%40gmail.com>> > > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: wisteria/lighting > > previous > > question/response revisited > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > Date: Thursday, November 12, 2009, 12:59 PM > > > Bill does have T-4's if I remember > > > correctly, maybe one of those 20watt > > > bulbs will work for him and provide more lumens than > > his > > > current bulbs do. > > > Did you check those links out Bill? ;) > > > > > > Amber > > > > > > Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > > > > > > > > Just because a fixture currently has a T-8 or > > T-10, > > > does not mean it > > > > cannot > > > > use a T-12, and vice versa. They are all medium > > bi-pin > > > bulbs, meaning they > > > > all will fit and work UNLESS the reflector is so > > tight > > > that a T-12 cannot > > > > fit inside the fixture but I haven't seen this as > > a > > > problem in the past. > > > > Usually, going with a T-8 or T-10, instead of a > > T-12 > > > will give more lumens > > > > but in the case of this particular sized bulb, > > the > > > T-12 may be the better > > > > option. Of course, we still need more details on > > > Bill's exact bulb. We > > > > still do not know anything except that it's 17 > > > watts... nothing about > > > > lumens, K rating or anything else for comparison > > > purposes. As Johnny 5 > > > > once > > > > said... "Need more input!" (I have no clue why > > that > > > OLD movie line popped > > > > into my head and I can't blame it on drugs since > > I > > > didn't/don't do them... > > > > and as far as I know, beer doesn't cause acid > > > flashbacks. LOL > > > > http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Short_Circuit > <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Short_Circuit> > > > > <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Short_Circuit > <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Short_Circuit>>) > > > > > > > > Now... thinking back a little. Bill may have > > T-4's and > > > if he does, those > > > > use the miniature bi-pin base and the above > > larger > > > T-#'s with medium > > > > bi-pin > > > > base would not work. If this is the case, there > > are > > > other options > > > > listed on > > > > this page... > > > > > > > http://www.servicelighting.com/T4-Straight-Linear-Fluorescent-Light-Bulbs > <http://www.servicelighting.com/T4-Straight-Linear-Fluorescent-Light-Bulbs> > > > > > > > > > > <http://www.servicelighting.com/T4-Straight-Linear-Fluorescent-Light-Bulbs > <http://www.servicelighting.com/T4-Straight-Linear-Fluorescent-Light-Bulbs>> > > > > including this 20W, 6400K, 1340 Lumens bulb - > > > > > > > http://www.servicelighting.com/Bulbrite-85220-F20T4-64K-F20T4-D-T4-Straight- > <http://www.servicelighting.com/Bulbrite-85220-F20T4-64K-F20T4-D-T4-Straight-> > > > > > > > > > > <http://www.servicelighting.com/Bulbrite-85220-F20T4-64K-F20T4-D-T4-Straight > <http://www.servicelighting.com/Bulbrite-85220-F20T4-64K-F20T4-D-T4-Straight> > > -> > > > > Linear-Fluorescent-Light-Bulb, which sounds like > > a > > > pretty good bulb > > > > from the > > > > specs and actually provides more lumens than any > > of > > > the T-12's previously > > > > listed. > > > > > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>> > > > > (Links to any articles referenced in above reply > > are > > > listed on the right > > > > side, alphabetically under Labels and also under > > > Archives by Year, Month) > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On > > > > Behalf Of Amber Berglund > > > > Sent: Thursday, November 12, 2009 10:29 AM > > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: wisteria/lighting > > > previous > > > > question/response > > > > revisited > > > > > > > > Bill has smaller bulbs, I think they are not easy > > to > > > find in a higher > > > > wattage output, which is what he was looking for > > a few > > > months back. > > > > > > > > Amber > > > > > > > > Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > > > > > > > > > > I don't know what you mean by this. Please > > > elaborate. What size tube? > > > > > I posted about several different bulbs but > > all > > > were T-12's, which is > > > > > one of the most common sizes. > > > > > > > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > > > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>> > > > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>>> > > > > (Links to any articles referenced in > > > > > above reply are listed on the right side, > > > alphabetically under Labels > > > > > and also under Archives by Year, Month) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On > > > Behalf Of bill 1433 > > > > > Sent: Thursday, November 12, 2009 8:59 AM > > > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: > > wisteria/lighting > > > previous > > > > > question/response revisited > > > > > > > > > > Yes Len, > > > > > > > > > > But its finding that size tube with more of > > > anything that's the problem. > > > > > > > > > > Bill > > > > > > > > > > --- On Wed, 11/11/09, Lenny V. aka > > GoldLenny > > > <GoldLenny@... <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com> > > > > > > > <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com> > > > > > <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com>> > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@... > <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com> > > > > > > > <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com> > > > > > <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com>> > > > > > > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: > > > wisteria/lighting previous > > > > > > question/response revisited > > > > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > Date: Wednesday, November 11, 2009, > > 5:22 PM > > > Well, if you only have > > > > > > 17W, then you could definitely do > > better > > > with the 20W, higher lumen, > > > > > > better K rating bulbs that I > > mentioned. > > > Considering the lumen > > > > > > ratings of fluorescent bulbs I've > > looked at, > > > your 17W bulbs might > > > > > > only have 500-700 lumens where the BEST > > 20W > > > bulb (below) has > > > > > > 1075 lumens so you > > > > > > could possibly increase your lighting > > by 50% > > > to 100% just by > > > > > > changing to that bulb. At least, with > > that > > > bulb, you'll be in the > > > > > > low-light range for plants on the 20G > > but > > > the 29G will need some work. > > > > > > > > > > > > Of course, you should find out what > > the > > > lumens and K ratings are on > > > > > > the bulbs you have so you'll know if > > you are > > > getting a small jump or > > > > > > a BIG jump in lighting just by changing > > your > > > bulbs. Check your local > > > > > > WalMart for bulbs. My nearby WalMart > > > SuperCenter has a really big > > > > > > assortment of fluorescent tubes and > > they > > > were cheaper than the Home > > > > > > Depot. > > > > > > > > > > > > Something else I'm thinking about for > > you is > > > going with 18" > > > > > > light-sticks on > > > > > > each end of your 29G tank or front or > > back > > > (back would hide it best > > > > > > but you decide your best aesthetics) > > and > > > you'd have to make a DIY > > > > > > reflector for it (white poster board > > and > > > scotch tape would work) and > > > > > > that would get more lighting down to > > the > > > bottom level plants in the > > > > > > 29G. > > > > > > > > > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > > > > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>> > > > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>>> > > > > (Links to any articles > > > > > > referenced in above reply are listed on > > the > > > right side, > > > > > > alphabetically under Labels and also > > under > > > Archives by Year, Month) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > > > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] > > > > > > On > > > > > > Behalf Of bill 1433 > > > > > > Sent: Wednesday, November 11, 2009 3:42 > > PM > > > > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: > > > wisteria/lighting previous > > > > > > question/response revisited > > > > > > > > > > > > It is what it is type of thing Len. > > Site > > > says one thing but stamped > > > > > > or printed right on the tube is at 17 > > > watts. > > > > > > > > > > > > Bill > > > > > > > > > > > > --- On Wed, 11/11/09, Lenny V. aka > > GoldLenny > > > <GoldLenny@... <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com> > > > > > > > <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com> > > > > > <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com>> > > > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny > > <GoldLenny@... <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com> > > > > > > > <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com> > > > > > <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com>> > > > > > > > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: > > > wisteria/lighting > > > > > > previous > > > > > > > question/response revisited > > > > > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > Date: Wednesday, November 11, > > 2009, > > > 2:16 PM The > > > > > > problem might be this > > > > > > > statement in the description... > > > > > > > > > > > > > > "... Hoods include 8000ºK > > bulb... > > > ...20W, 24"..." > > > > > > > > > > > > > > That's getting into the higher > > > green/blue Kelvin > > > > > > range... > > > > > > > closer to the > > > > > > > 10,000K actinic type bulbs... than > > the > > > 5000K to 6500K > > > > > > "Daylight" bulbs > > > > > > > that provide full spectrum > > lighting. > > > It's also only > > > > > > a 20W bulb > > > > > > > (according to the DFS site, > > although > > > you stated it was > > > > > > only 17W so > > > > > > > double check this) so it's only > > 1WPG on > > > the 20G and > > > > > > only 0.69WPG on > > > > > > > the 29G. Of course, if the bulb > > puts > > > out a LOT more > > > > > > lumens (you would > > > > > > > have to do more checking up on the > > bulb > > > to find this), > > > > > > that would help > > > > > > > a little but not much. I think you > > need > > > at least > > > > > > 1WPG to have success > > > > > > > with low-light plants, although > > > floating plants like > > > > > > Anacharis, > > > > > > > Hornwort, Duckweed, etc., would be > > up > > > close to the > > > > > > light and benefit > > > > > > > from CO2 from the air and would do > > OK > > > with your > > > > > > lighting... but then > > > > > > > they would also block out the > > lighting > > > to the rest of > > > > > > the tank. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I don't see a lot of options, as > > far as > > > T-8 bulbs are > > > > > > concerned for > > > > > > > this size fixture but I see a few > > > different T-12's... > > > > > > such as... > > > > > > > > > > > > > > (My rating is: GOOD - but see > > BETTER > > > and BEST options > > > > > > below... at > > > > > > > least as far as the bulbs on this > > site > > > are concerned) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > http://www.servicelighting.com/Sylvania-22119-F20T12-DSGN50-T12-Straig > <http://www.servicelighting.com/Sylvania-22119-F20T12-DSGN50-T12-Straig> > > > > > > > > <http://www.servicelighting.com/Sylvania-22119-F20T12-DSGN50-T12-Straig > <http://www.servicelighting.com/Sylvania-22119-F20T12-DSGN50-T12-Straig>> > > > > > > > > > > <http://www.servicelighting.com/Sylvania-22119-F20T12-DSGN50-T12-Strai > <http://www.servicelighting.com/Sylvania-22119-F20T12-DSGN50-T12-Strai> > > > > > > > > <http://www.servicelighting.com/Sylvania-22119-F20T12-DSGN50-T12-Strai > <http://www.servicelighting.com/Sylvania-22119-F20T12-DSGN50-T12-Strai>> > > > > > g> > > > > > > > ht-Lin > > > > > > > ear-Fluorescent-Light-Bulb > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Light Output: 880 lumens > > > > > > > Refers to the literal measure of > > the > > > light-output of a > > > > > > particular > > > > > > > light bulb, measured in the number > > of > > > lumens. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Energy Used: 20 watts > > > > > > > "Watts" is the term applied to > > the > > > amount of energy > > > > > > required and used > > > > > > > by a particular light bulb. It is > > an > > > international > > > > > > system unit of > > > > > > > power equal to one joule per > > second. > > > Contrary to > > > > > > popular belief, the > > > > > > > wattage of a bulb does not > > directly > > > measure the > > > > > > brightness; the > > > > > > > "lumens" of a light is what > > defines the > > > actual light > > > > > > output. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Average Lifetime: 9,000 hours > > > > > > > This refers to an average > > lifetime > > > rating based on > > > > > > large quantities in > > > > > > > test groups. This testing takes > > into > > > account usage of > > > > > > 3 hours per > > > > > > > start for fluorescent lamps and > > 10 > > > hours per start for > > > > > > HID lamps. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Bulb Type: T12 > > > > > > > The "Bulb Type" is typically a > > > combination of the > > > > > > style of bulb as > > > > > > > well as the width of the bulb. > > Usually, > > > the first > > > > > > couple letters will > > > > > > > indicate the type; "G" would > > indicate > > > "Globe", "PAR" > > > > > > would indicate > > > > > > > "Parabolic Reflector"... The > > numbers > > > indicate the > > > > > > diameter of the > > > > > > > light bulb in eighths of an inch; > > a > > > "G40" would be a > > > > > > "Globe" style > > > > > > > that is "5 inches" in diameter. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Base Type: Medium Bi-Pin > > > > > > > The "Base" of a light bulb is the > > part > > > that either > > > > > > screws or snaps > > > > > > > into a receptacle. Base Type > > > terminology may indicate > > > > > > common > > > > > > > descriptive words like "Medium" > > or > > > "Candelabra", or > > > > > > may even contain > > > > > > > numeric codes that signify size > > and > > > variety, like > > > > > > "E26" or "2GX13". > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Color Temperature: 5,000K > > > > > > > Correlated Color Temperature (CCT) > > is a > > > specification > > > > > > of the color > > > > > > > appearance of a lamp, relating > > its > > > color to that of a > > > > > > reference source > > > > > > > heated to a particular > > temperature, > > > measured in > > > > > > degrees Kelvin (K). It > > > > > > > generally measures the "warmth" > > or > > > "coolness" of light > > > > > > source > > > > > > > appearance. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > CRI: 90 > > > > > > > CRI refers to the "Color > > Rendering > > > Index" of a light > > > > > > bulb. > > > > > > > CRI measures a > > > > > > > light source and grades its > > ability to > > > render the > > > > > > color of objects > > > > > > > "correctly," as compared with a > > > reference source with > > > > > > comparable color > > > > > > > temperature. 100 is perfect > > rendering. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Length: 24 inches > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > (BETTER - slightly higher lumens > > and > > > higher 6500K > > > > > > rating) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > http://www.servicelighting.com/Westinghouse-36516-F20T12-FS-T12-Straig > <http://www.servicelighting.com/Westinghouse-36516-F20T12-FS-T12-Straig> > > > > > > > > <http://www.servicelighting.com/Westinghouse-36516-F20T12-FS-T12-Straig > <http://www.servicelighting.com/Westinghouse-36516-F20T12-FS-T12-Straig>> > > > > > > > > > > <http://www.servicelighting.com/Westinghouse-36516-F20T12-FS-T12-Strai > <http://www.servicelighting.com/Westinghouse-36516-F20T12-FS-T12-Strai> > > > > > > > > <http://www.servicelighting.com/Westinghouse-36516-F20T12-FS-T12-Strai > <http://www.servicelighting.com/Westinghouse-36516-F20T12-FS-T12-Strai>> > > > > > g> > > > > > > > ht-Lin > > > > > > > ear-Fluorescent-Light-Bulb > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Light Output: 900 lumens > > > > > > > Energy Used: 20 watts > > > > > > > Average Lifetime: 10,000 hours > > > > > > > Bulb Type: T12 > > > > > > > Base Type: Medium Bi-Pin > > > > > > > Color Temperature: 6,500K > > > > > > > CRI: 90 > > > > > > > Length: 24 inches > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > (BEST, of these three - around > > 20% > > > higher lumens and > > > > > > good 6,500K > > > > > > > rating, although it does have a > > lower > > > CRI rating.. but > > > > > > still > > > > > > > passing) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > http://www.servicelighting.com/Sylvania-22083-F20T12-D-T12-Straight-Li > <http://www.servicelighting.com/Sylvania-22083-F20T12-D-T12-Straight-Li> > > > > > > > > <http://www.servicelighting.com/Sylvania-22083-F20T12-D-T12-Straight-Li > <http://www.servicelighting.com/Sylvania-22083-F20T12-D-T12-Straight-Li>> > > > > > > > > > > <http://www.servicelighting.com/Sylvania-22083-F20T12-D-T12-Straight-L > <http://www.servicelighting.com/Sylvania-22083-F20T12-D-T12-Straight-L> > > > > > > > > <http://www.servicelighting.com/Sylvania-22083-F20T12-D-T12-Straight-L > <http://www.servicelighting.com/Sylvania-22083-F20T12-D-T12-Straight-L>> > > > > > i> > > > > > > > near-F > > > > > > > luorescent-Light-Bulb > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Light Output: 1,075 lumens > > > > > > > Energy Used: 20 watts > > > > > > > Average Lifetime: 9,000 hours > > > > > > > Bulb Type: T12 > > > > > > > Base Type: Medium Bi-Pin > > > > > > > Color Temperature: 6,500K > > > > > > > CRI: 76 > > > > > > > Length: 24 inches > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Compare the above three to what is > > sold > > > as a > > > > > > plant/aquarium light by > > > > > > > the same company, which has a > > lower > > > lumens, MUCH lower > > > > > > CRI rating and > > > > > > > does not list the K rating other > > than > > > to say "Plant" > > > > > > which is a > > > > > > > subjective rating established by > > the > > > manufacturer. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > (WORST) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > http://www.servicelighting.com/Westinghouse-36411-F20T12-PL-T12-Straig > <http://www.servicelighting.com/Westinghouse-36411-F20T12-PL-T12-Straig> > > > > > > > > <http://www.servicelighting.com/Westinghouse-36411-F20T12-PL-T12-Straig > <http://www.servicelighting.com/Westinghouse-36411-F20T12-PL-T12-Straig>> > > > > > > > > > > <http://www.servicelighting.com/Westinghouse-36411-F20T12-PL-T12-Strai > <http://www.servicelighting.com/Westinghouse-36411-F20T12-PL-T12-Strai> > > > > > > > > <http://www.servicelighting.com/Westinghouse-36411-F20T12-PL-T12-Strai > <http://www.servicelighting.com/Westinghouse-36411-F20T12-PL-T12-Strai>> > > > > > g> > > > > > > > ht-Lin > > > > > > > ear-Fluorescent-Light-Bulb > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Light Output: 700 lumens (over 30% > > less > > > lighting > > > > > > than the 1,075 > > > > > > > lumens bulb > > > > > > > above) > > > > > > > Energy Used: 20 watts > > > > > > > Average Lifetime: 10,000 hours > > > > > > > Bulb Type: T12 > > > > > > > Base Type: Medium Bi-Pin > > > > > > > Color: Plant > > > > > > > CRI: 61 > > > > > > > Length: 24 inches > > > > > > > > > > > > > > If any of the above have much > > better > > > lumens than your > > > > > > current > > > > > > > lighting... > > > > > > > and they all have better K > > ratings, > > > then any of them > > > > > > would be better > > > > > > > for you... but you would still be > > stuck > > > with only 20 > > > > > > watts but it's > > > > > > > the LUMENS and K rating that count > > more > > > than watts. > > > > > > You need to find > > > > > > > out the lumens on your bulb. Try > > to > > > find it on the > > > > > > DFS site and let > > > > > > > us know. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > You should look at the > > AHSupply.com > > > place for a > > > > > > retrofit kit so you > > > > > > > can use CFL's in your current > > hood. > > > That would > > > > > > probably be your least > > > > > > > expensive option. I know you don't > > like > > > electricity > > > > > > but I'm sure you > > > > > > > know someone that could do this > > for > > > you... on the > > > > > > cheap... or over a > > > > > > > 6-pack. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > > > > > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>> > > > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>>> > > > > (Links to > > > > > > any articles > > > > > > > referenced in above reply are > > listed on > > > the right > > > > > > side, alphabetically > > > > > > > under Labels and also under > > Archives by > > > Year, Month) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > > > > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] > > > > > > > On > > > > > > > Behalf Of bill 1433 > > > > > > > Sent: Wednesday, November 11, 2009 > > 9:33 > > > AM > > > > > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: > > > wisteria/lighting > > > > > > previous > > > > > > > question/response > > > > > > > revisited > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Hi \\Steve// > > > > > > > > > > > > > > At this point, and also to refresh > > your > > > mind, and > > > > > > anyone > > > > > > > else on the group > > > > > > > that may have interest. This all > > got > > > started with > > > > > > my > > > > > > > search for a tube that > > > > > > > would allow me more light output > > from > > > an All Glass > > > > > > Plastic > > > > > > > hood and light. > > > > > > > This unit comes with a "color type > > tube > > > at 17 watts > > > > > > that is > > > > > > > only 24 inches > > > > > > > long. This is for a 20/29-gallon > > tank. > > > I was stupid enough to buy > > > > > > > two of them, one for each tank. > > For > > > further inspection > > > > > > here > > > > > > > is the light: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > http://www.drsfostersmith.com/product/prod_display.cfm?pcatid=13447 > <http://www.drsfostersmith.com/product/prod_display.cfm?pcatid=13447> > > > > > > > > <http://www.drsfostersmith.com/product/prod_display.cfm?pcatid=13447 > <http://www.drsfostersmith.com/product/prod_display.cfm?pcatid=13447>> > > > > > > <http://www.drsfostersmith.com/product/prod_display.cfm?pcatid=13447 > <http://www.drsfostersmith.com/product/prod_display.cfm?pcatid=13447> > > > > > > > > <http://www.drsfostersmith.com/product/prod_display.cfm?pcatid=13447 > <http://www.drsfostersmith.com/product/prod_display.cfm?pcatid=13447>>> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > For those that would like to > > aggravate > > > themselves > > > > > > further, > > > > > > > I can also state > > > > > > > that these hoods are very > > conducive to > > > growing Black Algae! > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Summoning up, I should have only > > > purchased an > > > > > > All-Glass > > > > > > > cover and then > > > > > > > probably a double tube light of > > > sufficient wattage to > > > > > > bring > > > > > > > me up to the > > > > > > > recommended 2 or 3 watts per > > gallon. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Ya live and learn, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Bill > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > --- On Tue, 11/10/09, Steve Szabo > > > <steve@... <mailto:steve%40familyszabo.com> > > > > > > > <mailto:steve%40familyszabo.com> > > > > > <mailto:steve%40familyszabo.com>> > > > > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > From: Steve Szabo <steve@... > <mailto:steve%40familyszabo.com> > > > > > > > <mailto:steve%40familyszabo.com> > > > > > <mailto:steve%40familyszabo.com>> > > > > > > > > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] > > Re: > > > wisteria/lighting > > > > > > > previous > > > > > > > > question/response revisited > > > > > > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > > Date: Tuesday, November 10, > > 2009, > > > 11:50 PM Bill, > > > > > > you > > > > > > > got it right! The > > > > > > > > T numbers represent the > > diameter > > > of the bulb in > > > > > > 1/8" > > > > > > > increments. A T4 > > > > > > > > is a bulb 1/2" in diameter, > > T5 is > > > 5/8", t8 is > > > > > > 1" and > > > > > > > a t12 is 1 1/2". > > > > > > > > As I recall, the F is the > > wattage > > > of the bulb. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Lumens, not usually stated on > > the > > > bulb is the > > > > > > actual > > > > > > > amount of light > > > > > > > > coming from the bulb. It > > really > > > does not have > > > > > > anything > > > > > > > to do with > > > > > > > > watts, though more watts will > > give > > > you more > > > > > > lumens, > > > > > > > but, also the > > > > > > > > phosphors used in the bulb > > affect > > > the amount of > > > > > > lumen > > > > > > > output. Lumens > > > > > > > > and lux are often used > > > interchangeably, but they > > > > > > are > > > > > > > really different > > > > > > > > measurements. Lux is the > > measure > > > of illumination > > > > > > over > > > > > > > a given area. It > > > > > > > > may actually be more > > important to > > > aquarists > > > > > > raising > > > > > > > plants than the > > > > > > > > lumen output. Lux is what is > > > measured by a light > > > > > > > meter, for anyone who > > > > > > > > happens to know what they > > are--not > > > often seen > > > > > > with > > > > > > > today's cameras and > > > > > > > > photographers. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Color temperature is > > important. > > > Average daylight > > > > > > > (except may in > > > > > > > > Amber's area where they have > > 6 > > > months of > > > > > > darkness) has > > > > > > > a color > > > > > > > > temperature of 5500-6000. > > > > > > > > An overcast day can have a > > color > > > temperature of > > > > > > 6500. > > > > > > > As mentioned > > > > > > > > earlier, plants need light in > > two > > > color > > > > > > spectrums, > > > > > > > and, actually they > > > > > > > > are rather narrow spans of > > > wavelengths they > > > > > > benefit > > > > > > > from. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I thought I had a bookmark > > > explaining this, but > > > > > > I > > > > > > > can't find it > > > > > > > > quickly (over 400K of > > bookmarks, > > > and things have > > > > > > a > > > > > > > tendency to get > > > > > > > > lost), however, some > > judicial > > > Googling will gain > > > > > > you > > > > > > > the information. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > \\Steve// > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > > > > > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] > > > > > > > > On > > > > > > > > Behalf Of bill 1433 > > > > > > > > Sent: Tuesday, November 10, > > 2009 > > > 10:20 PM > > > > > > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] > > Re: > > > wisteria/lighting > > > > > > > previous > > > > > > > > question/response revisited > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Yes, Amber > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > It was I, looking for the > > original > > > information > > > > > > and > > > > > > > also looked back on > > > > > > > > \\Steve//'s post at group to > > try > > > and find. Ray > > > > > > had > > > > > > > mentioned all this > > > > > > > > the other day saying that he > > > thought the posting > > > > > > came > > > > > > > from \\Steve//. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I was not successful in my > > search. > > > Also, for me > > > > > > the > > > > > > > most important > > > > > > > > part was a link to a chart > > which > > > showed you > > > > > > exactly, > > > > > > > or explained > > > > > > > > exactly the "T" > > > > > > > > factor stands for. For > > instance, > > > T-4 would be a > > > > > > tube > > > > > > > that is a half > > > > > > > > inch wide, or close to > > > it-----------I think. > > > > > > All > > > > > > > this is my own > > > > > > > > fault. In my interest to > > acquire > > > and learn > > > > > > about > > > > > > > lighting,I went > > > > > > > > through and studied the > > applied > > > links but being > > > > > > > ol'bill, I never > > > > > > > > bookmarked them. > > > > > > > > Then to further > > > > > > > > compound the problem, I > > deleted > > > the original > > > > > > message > > > > > > > that it came > > > > > > > > from. In hind-sight you > > could > > > probably chalk > > > > > > this > > > > > > > all up to felonious > > > > > > > > stupidity on my part. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Bill---where its always a > > good day > > > if I learn > > > > > > > something new! > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > --- On Tue, 11/10/09, Amber > > > Berglund <arberglund@... <mailto:arberglund%40gmail.com> > > > > > > > <mailto:arberglund%40gmail.com> > > > > > <mailto:arberglund%40gmail.com>> > > > > > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > From: Amber Berglund <arberglund@... > <mailto:arberglund%40gmail.com> > > > > > > > <mailto:arberglund%40gmail.com> > > > > > <mailto:arberglund%40gmail.com>> > > > > > > > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] > > Re: > > > wisteria/lighting > > > > > > > previous > > > > > > > > question/response revisited > > > > > > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > > Date: Tuesday, November 10, > > 2009, > > > 9:30 PM > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I believe it was Steve who > > posted > > > a link about > > > > > > lumens > > > > > > > months back when > > > > > > > > (I think it was maybe Bill > > asking) > > > about lighting > > > > > > for > > > > > > > planted > > > > > > > > aquariums. > > > > > > > > Plants require 2 different > > > spectrums of light to > > > > > > > properly produce > > > > > > > > either leaves or flowers (red > > is > > > more for flower > > > > > > > production and blue > > > > > > > > is more for growth, but for > > the > > > best growing you > > > > > > want > > > > > > > a mixture of > > > > > > > > BOTH colors). > > > > > > > > So in reality you would want > > a > > > light that appears > > > > > > more > > > > > > > brown/reddish > > > > > > > > in coloring and a blue/white > > > coloring as well, > > > > > > but > > > > > > > they now have bulbs > > > > > > > > that have BOTH spectrums > > built in > > > (I'm sure they > > > > > > don't > > > > > > > work as well as > > > > > > > > it would to have 2 different > > bulbs > > > one mostly red > > > > > > and > > > > > > > the other mostly > > > > > > > > blue on the color spectrum). > > > > > > > > Let me see if I still have > > the > > > link bookmarked. > > > > > > > > What I was trying to say is > > that > > > Kelvin does not > > > > > > tell > > > > > > > you what color > > > > > > > > spectrum the light REALLY is, > > it's > > > actually > > > > > > measuring > > > > > > > it's light > > > > > > > > output color according to how > > the > > > human eyes > > > > > > perceive > > > > > > > it. So 6500 > > > > > > > > kelvin in general is what > > most > > > plants will > > > > > > prefer > > > > > > > because that is a > > > > > > > > mixture of both red and blue > > > spectrums (In MOST > > > > > > bulbs) > > > > > > > unfortunately > > > > > > > > not all light bulb > > manufactures > > > have to use the > > > > > > exact > > > > > > > same chart for > > > > > > > > their colors, so they will > > have > > > different colors > > > > > > than > > > > > > > another bulb > > > > > > > > that says it's 6500 Kelvin. > > what > > > you really need > > > > > > to > > > > > > > read is the color > > > > > > > > chart on the box, not what > > lumens > > > it says it is. > > > > > > > > (still searching for link, > > LOL). > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > This isn't the right link but > > it > > > discusses the > > > > > > > kelvin/lumen problems a > > > > > > > > little bit, still looking for > > the > > > link that > > > > > > showed the > > > > > > > charts and what > > > > > > > > to look for in the color > > charts. > > > > > > > > > http://www.americanaquariumproducts.com/Aquarium_Lighting.html > <http://www.americanaquariumproducts.com/Aquarium_Lighting.html> > > > > > > > <http://www.americanaquariumproducts.com/Aquarium_Lighting.html > <http://www.americanaquariumproducts.com/Aquarium_Lighting.html>> > > > > > > <http://www.americanaquariumproducts.com/Aquarium_Lighting.html > <http://www.americanaquariumproducts.com/Aquarium_Lighting.html> > > > > > > > <http://www.americanaquariumproducts.com/Aquarium_Lighting.html > <http://www.americanaquariumproducts.com/Aquarium_Lighting.html>>> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Will post again when I find > > the > > > other link with > > > > > > chart > > > > > > > examples. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Amber > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Lenny V. aka GoldLenny > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I think it would be > > false > > > advertising or > > > > > > > possibly > > > > > > > > mis-advertising (if they > > > > > > > > > do not know any better) > > if a > > > company lists > > > > > > their > > > > > > > bulbs > > > > > > > > as 6500K and they > > > > > > > > > aren't. The Kelvin > > scale, > > > just like Watts > > > > > > and > > > > > > > Lumens, > > > > > > > > are ALL > > > > > > > > > universal and > > > > > > > > > scientifically > > measurable > > > scales BUT, as I > > > > > > > showed > > > > > > > > below, not all 40 watt > > > > > > > > > bulbs put out the same > > amount > > > of light > > > > > > (lumens) > > > > > > > or in > > > > > > > > the same color > > > > > > > > > spectrum (Kelvin > > rating). All > > > 40 watt > > > > > > bulbs, > > > > > > > whether > > > > > > > > incandescent, > > > > > > > > > fluorescent, CFL, LED, > > > Halogen, etc.... ALL > > > > > > use > > > > > > > > only/around 40 watts of > > > > > > > > > electricity but their > > light > > > output can vary > > > > > > > > dramatically. This is why > > > > > > > > > fluorescent bulbs are so > > much > > > more > > > > > > efficient > > > > > > > than > > > > > > > > incandescent bulbs and > > > > > > > > > CFL's are even more > > > efficient... as a 40W > > > > > > > fluorescent > > > > > > > > bulb puts out a LOT > > > > > > > > > more light (lumens) than > > a 40 > > > watt > > > > > > incandescent > > > > > > > bulb > > > > > > > > and a 40W CFL > > > > > > > > > puts out > > > > > > > > > more light (lumens) than > > a > > > 40W fluorescent > > > > > > bulb. > > > > > > > This > > > > > > > > is why the OLD > > > > > > > > > "Watts > > > > > > > > > Per Gallon" rule simply > > does > > > not work any > > > > > > more. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > BUT.. if three > > different > > > companies are > > > > > > selling > > > > > > > > standard T-10 fluorescent > > > > > > > > > bulbs with the same > > exact > > > rating of 40W, > > > > > > 3550 > > > > > > > lumens > > > > > > > > and 6500K > > > > > > > > > rating... all > > > > > > > > > three of those bulbs > > should > > > be VERY SIMILAR > > > > > > if > > > > > > > not > > > > > > > > identical in the > > > > > > > > > way they > > > > > > > > > appear to our eyes > > (subject > > > to our own > > > > > > degree of > > > > > > > color > > > > > > > > blindness, of > > > > > > > > > course!) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > In the past, things > > like > > > "soft white", > > > > > > "warm > > > > > > > white", > > > > > > > > "daylight", "plant > > > > > > > > > grow", etc., type terms > > were > > > used and are > > > > > > still > > > > > > > used > > > > > > > > but those are just > > > > > > > > > simple words (not > > subject to > > > a scientific > > > > > > scale) > > > > > > > to > > > > > > > > describe the Kelvin > > > > > > > > > rating ranges but lumens > > are > > > just as > > > > > > important > > > > > > > since a > > > > > > > > bulb could have a > > > > > > > > > 6500K rating with only > > 2200 > > > lumens where > > > > > > another > > > > > > > bulb > > > > > > > > could have a 6500K > > > > > > > > > rating and 3550 or 3700 > > > lumens and that > > > > > > bulb > > > > > > > would put > > > > > > > > out over 50% more > > > > > > > > > light (lumens) in the > > same > > > color spectrum > > > > > > > (Kelvin > > > > > > > > rating) so it would be a > > > > > > > > > much more cost effective > > bulb > > > if it cost > > > > > > the > > > > > > > same > > > > > > > > amount or only a little > > > > > > > > > more. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I'm slightly confused > > about > > > the "red and > > > > > > blue > > > > > > > light > > > > > > > > for your plants" as > > > > > > > > > those two colors are on > > > opposite ends of > > > > > > the > > > > > > > Kelvin > > > > > > > > Scale with reds and > > > > > > > > > ambers in the lower > > numbers > > > and greens and > > > > > > blues > > > > > > > in > > > > > > > > the higher numbers. I > > > > > > > > > think this is why you > > would > > > want a > > > > > > mid-range > > > > > > > (5000K to > > > > > > > > 6500K) bulb as > > > > > > > > > those > > > > > > > > > are generally > > considered > > > "full spectrum" or > > > > > > > "daylight" > > > > > > > > bulbs. Here's a > > > > > > > > > color picture of the > > Kelvin > > > Scale, > > > > > > > > > http://www.bltdirect.com/images/colour-temperature.jpg > <http://www.bltdirect.com/images/colour-temperature.jpg> > > > > > > > <http://www.bltdirect.com/images/colour-temperature.jpg > <http://www.bltdirect.com/images/colour-temperature.jpg>> > > > > > <http://www.bltdirect.com/images/colour-temperature.jpg > <http://www.bltdirect.com/images/colour-temperature.jpg> > > > > > > > <http://www.bltdirect.com/images/colour-temperature.jpg > <http://www.bltdirect.com/images/colour-temperature.jpg>>> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > <http://www.bltdirect.com/images/colour-temperature.jpg > <http://www.bltdirect.com/images/colour-temperature.jpg> > > > > > > > <http://www.bltdirect.com/images/colour-temperature.jpg > <http://www.bltdirect.com/images/colour-temperature.jpg>> > > > > > <http://www.bltdirect.com/images/colour-temperature.jpg > <http://www.bltdirect.com/images/colour-temperature.jpg> > > > > > > > <http://www.bltdirect.com/images/colour-temperature.jpg > <http://www.bltdirect.com/images/colour-temperature.jpg>>>> > > > > > > > > and you can > > > > > > > > > visually > > > > > > > > > see that the 5000K to > > 6500K > > > range is all > > > > > > about > > > > > > > the > > > > > > > > same "color". I think > > > > > > > > > this is also why > > Actinic > > > bulbs are usually > > > > > > higher > > > > > > > and > > > > > > > > closer to the 10000K > > > > > > > > > range and up... > > apparently, > > > the Kelvin > > > > > > lighting > > > > > > > scale > > > > > > > > can go up to 20,000K > > > > > > > > > (according to this > > article > > > about Reef Tanks > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > http://nh.craigslist.org/for/1423072406.html > <http://nh.craigslist.org/for/1423072406.html> > > > > <http://nh.craigslist.org/for/1423072406.html > <http://nh.craigslist.org/for/1423072406.html>> > > > > > <http://nh.craigslist.org/for/1423072406.html > <http://nh.craigslist.org/for/1423072406.html> > > > > <http://nh.craigslist.org/for/1423072406.html > <http://nh.craigslist.org/for/1423072406.html>>> > > > > > > > > > <http://nh.craigslist.org/for/1423072406.html > <http://nh.craigslist.org/for/1423072406.html> > > > > <http://nh.craigslist.org/for/1423072406.html > <http://nh.craigslist.org/for/1423072406.html>> > > > > > <http://nh.craigslist.org/for/1423072406.html > <http://nh.craigslist.org/for/1423072406.html> > > > > <http://nh.craigslist.org/for/1423072406.html > <http://nh.craigslist.org/for/1423072406.html>>>> > > > on, > > > > > > > of > > > > > > > > all places, > > > > > > > > > Craigslist). > > > > > > > > > Here is the page that > > that > > > the above photo > > > > > > link > > > > > > > came > > > > > > > > from and it has a > > > > > > > > > chart > > > > > > > > > that also explains > > things a > > > little more also > > > > > > and > > > > > > > talks > > > > > > > > about the CRI, yet > > > > > > > > > another lighting term > > (Color > > > Rendition > > > > > > Index). > > > > > > > > > http://www.bltdirect.com/lampColourTemperatures.php > <http://www.bltdirect.com/lampColourTemperatures.php> > > > > <http://www.bltdirect.com/lampColourTemperatures.php > <http://www.bltdirect.com/lampColourTemperatures.php>> > > > > > <http://www.bltdirect.com/lampColourTemperatures.php > <http://www.bltdirect.com/lampColourTemperatures.php> > > > > <http://www.bltdirect.com/lampColourTemperatures.php > <http://www.bltdirect.com/lampColourTemperatures.php>>> > > > > > > > > > <http://www.bltdirect.com/lampColourTemperatures.php > <http://www.bltdirect.com/lampColourTemperatures.php> > > > > <http://www.bltdirect.com/lampColourTemperatures.php > <http://www.bltdirect.com/lampColourTemperatures.php>> > > > > > <http://www.bltdirect.com/lampColourTemperatures.php > <http://www.bltdirect.com/lampColourTemperatures.php> > > > > <http://www.bltdirect.com/lampColourTemperatures.php > <http://www.bltdirect.com/lampColourTemperatures.php>>>> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > > > > > > > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>> > > > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>>> > > > > > > > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>> > > > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>>>> > > (Links > > > > > > > to any articles referenced in > > > > > > > > > above reply are > > > > > > > > listed on the right > > > > > > > > > side, alphabetically > > under > > > Labels and also > > > > > > under > > > > > > > > Archives by Year, Month) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -----Original > > Message----- > > > > > > > > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > > > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On > > > > > > > Behalf Of Amber Berglund > > > > > > > > > Sent: Tuesday, November > > 10, > > > 2009 4:22 PM > > > > > > > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > > > Subject: Re: > > [AquaticLife] > > > Re: > > > > > > wisteria/lighting > > > > > > > > previous > > > > > > > > > question/response > > > > > > > > > revisited > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Another thing to > > consider is > > > one light > > > > > > company's > > > > > > > 6500 > > > > > > > > kelvin rating > > > > > > > > > may not > > > > > > > > > be identical to another > > light > > > bulb from a > > > > > > > different > > > > > > > > company that's > > > > > > > > > rated the > > > > > > > > > same. The important > > thing to > > > look at is the > > > > > > > color > > > > > > > > chart they show on the > > > > > > > > > boxes, you want more red > > and > > > blue light for > > > > > > your > > > > > > > > plants, green is not > > > > > > > > > useful > > > > > > > > > or harmful as the > > plants > > > reflect the light > > > > > > back > > > > > > > (makes > > > > > > > > them appear more > > > > > > > > > green but does nothing > > else > > > for them). The > > > > > > > kelvin > > > > > > > > rating is based on our > > > > > > > > > eyes and how they > > perceive > > > color, so each > > > > > > > company > > > > > > > > doesn't have to be > > > > > > > > > identical, perhaps some > > day > > > they will have > > > > > > a > > > > > > > universal > > > > > > > > way to measure > > > > > > > > > light > > > > > > > > > spectrums on bulbs that > > is > > > much less > > > > > > confusing. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Amber > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Lenny V. aka GoldLenny > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > OK. So you have a > > total > > > of 80 watts > > > > > > right > > > > > > > now, > > > > > > > > which is just over 1 > > > > > > > > > > WPG, which means > > you > > > only have enough > > > > > > > lighting > > > > > > > > for low-light, easy to > > > > > > > > > > grow plants. See my > > blog > > > article > > > > > > "Planted > > > > > > > Tank: > > > > > > > > So You Want A Planted > > > > > > > > > > Tank" for links to > > lists > > > of low-light, > > > > > > easy > > > > > > > to > > > > > > > > grow plants that will > > > > > > > > > > do OK in your tank. > > You > > > should replace > > > > > > > those > > > > > > > > tubes at least yearly... > > > > > > > > > > although some say > > every > > > six months. As > > > > > > far > > > > > > > as I > > > > > > > > know, a 40W bulb is > > > > > > > > > > the highest wattage > > made > > > for this type > > > > > > of > > > > > > > > bulb/fixture right now but > > > > > > > > > > you can increase > > your > > > lighting > > > > > > > > > > (lumens) and K > > (Kelvin) > > > rating. See > > > > > > below. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > NOTE - below links > > are > > > for > > > > > > > example/informational > > > > > > > > purposes only, as I > > > > > > > > > > know nothing about > > the > > > sites. God... > > > > > > did I > > > > > > > just > > > > > > > > say that? Do I really > > > > > > > > > > have to add > > disclaimers > > > to my posts > > > > > > now? LOL > > > > > > > Just > > > > > > > > laughing at myself. > > > > > > > > > > LOL > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > This may be your > > > Sylvania bulb... > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > http://www.lightbulbemporium.com/proddetail.asp?prod=F40/EX50 > <http://www.lightbulbemporium.com/proddetail.asp?prod=F40/EX50> > > > > > > > <http://www.lightbulbemporium.com/proddetail.asp?prod=F40/EX50 > <http://www.lightbulbemporium.com/proddetail.asp?prod=F40/EX50>> > > > > > <http://www.lightbulbemporium.com/proddetail.asp?prod=F40/EX50 > <http://www.lightbulbemporium.com/proddetail.asp?prod=F40/EX50> > > > > > > > <http://www.lightbulbemporium.com/proddetail.asp?prod=F40/EX50 > <http://www.lightbulbemporium.com/proddetail.asp?prod=F40/EX50>>> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > <http://www.lightbulbemporium.com/proddetail.asp?prod=F40/EX50 > <http://www.lightbulbemporium.com/proddetail.asp?prod=F40/EX50> > > > > > > > <http://www.lightbulbemporium.com/proddetail.asp?prod=F40/EX50 > <http://www.lightbulbemporium.com/proddetail.asp?prod=F40/EX50>> > > > > > <http://www.lightbulbemporium.com/proddetail.asp?prod=F40/EX50 > <http://www.lightbulbemporium.com/proddetail.asp?prod=F40/EX50> > > > > > > > <http://www.lightbulbemporium.com/proddetail.asp?prod=F40/EX50 > <http://www.lightbulbemporium.com/proddetail.asp?prod=F40/EX50>>>> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > <http://www.lightbulbemporium.com/proddetail.asp?prod=F40/EX50 > <http://www.lightbulbemporium.com/proddetail.asp?prod=F40/EX50> > > > > > > > <http://www.lightbulbemporium.com/proddetail.asp?prod=F40/EX50 > <http://www.lightbulbemporium.com/proddetail.asp?prod=F40/EX50>> > > > > > <http://www.lightbulbemporium.com/proddetail.asp?prod=F40/EX50 > <http://www.lightbulbemporium.com/proddetail.asp?prod=F40/EX50> > > > > > > > <http://www.lightbulbemporium.com/proddetail.asp?prod=F40/EX50 > <http://www.lightbulbemporium.com/proddetail.asp?prod=F40/EX50>>> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > <http://www.lightbulbemporium.com/proddetail.asp?prod=F40/EX50 > <http://www.lightbulbemporium.com/proddetail.asp?prod=F40/EX50> > > > > > > > <http://www.lightbulbemporium.com/proddetail.asp?prod=F40/EX50 > <http://www.lightbulbemporium.com/proddetail.asp?prod=F40/EX50>> > > > > > <http://www.lightbulbemporium.com/proddetail.asp?prod=F40/EX50 > <http://www.lightbulbemporium.com/proddetail.asp?prod=F40/EX50> > > > > > > > <http://www.lightbulbemporium.com/proddetail.asp?prod=F40/EX50 > <http://www.lightbulbemporium.com/proddetail.asp?prod=F40/EX50>>>>> > > > > > > > > and if > > > > > > > > > > it is, then it's > > the > > > same ratings as > > > > > > the > > > > > > > specs in > > > > > > > > the T-10 bulb that I > > > > > > > > > > copy/pasted below, > > which > > > is a pretty > > > > > > good > > > > > > > bulb > > > > > > > > with higher lumens and > > > > > > > > > > the higher K > > rating, > > > although not a > > > > > > 6500K > > > > > > > rated > > > > > > > > bulb. At the bottom of > > > > > > > > > > this page, there > > was a > > > link to this > > > > > > bulb... > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > http://www.lightbulbemporium.com/maxlite_51204_ml_f40t10_850_rscg.as > <http://www.lightbulbemporium.com/maxlite_51204_ml_f40t10_850_rscg.as> > > > > > > > > <http://www.lightbulbemporium.com/maxlite_51204_ml_f40t10_850_rscg.as > <http://www.lightbulbemporium.com/maxlite_51204_ml_f40t10_850_rscg.as>> > > > > > > > > > > <http://www.lightbulbemporium.com/maxlite_51204_ml_f40t10_850_rscg.as > <http://www.lightbulbemporium.com/maxlite_51204_ml_f40t10_850_rscg.as> > > > > > > > > <http://www.lightbulbemporium.com/maxlite_51204_ml_f40t10_850_rscg.as > <http://www.lightbulbemporium.com/maxlite_51204_ml_f40t10_850_rscg.as>>> > > > > > > > > > p > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > <http://www.lightbulbemporium.com/maxlite_51204_ml_f40t10_850_rscg.a > <http://www.lightbulbemporium.com/maxlite_51204_ml_f40t10_850_rscg.a> > > > > > > > > <http://www.lightbulbemporium.com/maxlite_51204_ml_f40t10_850_rscg.a > <http://www.lightbulbemporium.com/maxlite_51204_ml_f40t10_850_rscg.a>> > > > > > > <http://www.lightbulbemporium.com/maxlite_51204_ml_f40t10_850_rscg.a > <http://www.lightbulbemporium.com/maxlite_51204_ml_f40t10_850_rscg.a> > > > > > > > > <http://www.lightbulbemporium.com/maxlite_51204_ml_f40t10_850_rscg.a > <http://www.lightbulbemporium.com/maxlite_51204_ml_f40t10_850_rscg.a>>> > > > > > > > > > sp> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > <http://www.lightbulbemporium.com/maxlite_51204_ml_f40t10_850_rscg.a > <http://www.lightbulbemporium.com/maxlite_51204_ml_f40t10_850_rscg.a> > > > > > > > > <http://www.lightbulbemporium.com/maxlite_51204_ml_f40t10_850_rscg.a > <http://www.lightbulbemporium.com/maxlite_51204_ml_f40t10_850_rscg.a>> > > > > > > <http://www.lightbulbemporium.com/maxlite_51204_ml_f40t10_850_rscg.a > <http://www.lightbulbemporium.com/maxlite_51204_ml_f40t10_850_rscg.a> > > > > > > > > <http://www.lightbulbemporium.com/maxlite_51204_ml_f40t10_850_rscg.a > <http://www.lightbulbemporium.com/maxlite_51204_ml_f40t10_850_rscg.a>>> > > > > > > > > > sp > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > <http://www.lightbulbemporium.com/maxlite_51204_ml_f40t10_850_rscg.a > <http://www.lightbulbemporium.com/maxlite_51204_ml_f40t10_850_rscg.a> > > > > > > > > <http://www.lightbulbemporium.com/maxlite_51204_ml_f40t10_850_rscg.a > <http://www.lightbulbemporium.com/maxlite_51204_ml_f40t10_850_rscg.a>> > > > > > > <http://www.lightbulbemporium.com/maxlite_51204_ml_f40t10_850_rscg.a > <http://www.lightbulbemporium.com/maxlite_51204_ml_f40t10_850_rscg.a> > > > > > > > > <http://www.lightbulbemporium.com/maxlite_51204_ml_f40t10_850_rscg.a > <http://www.lightbulbemporium.com/maxlite_51204_ml_f40t10_850_rscg.a>>> > > > > > > > > > sp> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > which > > > > > > > > > > has an even higher > > lumen > > > rating of > > > > > > 3700, > > > > > > > although > > > > > > > > not much higher than > > > > > > > > > > the 3550 rating > > but > > > every little bit > > > > > > helps > > > > > > > > especially since the > > > > > > > > > > MaxLite bulb was a > > lower > > > price than > > > > > > the > > > > > > > Sylvania > > > > > > > > bulb. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > As you will see on > > this > > > page > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > http://www.lightbulbsdirect.com/Merchant2/merchant.mvc?page=001/CTGY > <http://www.lightbulbsdirect.com/Merchant2/merchant.mvc?page=001/CTGY> > > > > > > > > <http://www.lightbulbsdirect.com/Merchant2/merchant.mvc?page=001/CTGY > <http://www.lightbulbsdirect.com/Merchant2/merchant.mvc?page=001/CTGY>> > > > > > > > > > > <http://<br/><br/>(Message over 64 KB, truncated)

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 44477	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 11/12/2009
Subject: Re: wisteria/lighting previous question/response revisited

Perhaps you should ask what light fixture he got? He said it's 1/2 inch in diameter, which makes it a T-4 for sure, but I'm not sure where he got the wattage from, perhaps writing on the bulb. Amber Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > > Can you show me a link to a T-4, 17W bulb? I haven't found a single one in > all the reading that I've been doing. Remind me how long your bulbs are > again? I scrolled down looking and didn't see an exact answer. In looking > at your link to DFS about your fixture, I see that for the 29G/20G, > it's 30" > long with the 24" bulbs but I wanted to be sure since every site I look at > for T-4's, they do not come in 17W or 24" length so I'm still thinking > something is wrong with your calculations or the reading of the > specs/calcs > that you do have. > > Here are three different sites with their lists of T-4 bulbs and as > you can > see, there are NO 17W bulbs and no 24" bulbs. > > http://www.lightbulbsdirect.com/page/001/CTGY/T4 > <http://www.lightbulbsdirect.com/page/001/CTGY/T4> > http://www.buylighting.com/T4-Fluorescent-s/102.htm > <http://www.buylighting.com/T4-Fluorescent-s/102.htm> > http://www.servicelighting.com/T4-Straight-Linear-Fluorescent-Light-Bulbs > <http://www.servicelighting.com/T4-Straight-Linear-Fluorescent-Light-Bulbs> > > The closest that T-4's come are 20.5" or 22-5/16" with only one type/brand > having the 22-5/16" bulb as a specialty bulb and all of the other > T-4's are > 20.5" and then jump up to 33 7/8" or 33.9" depending on the site. > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right > side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On > Behalf Of bill 1433 > Sent: Thursday, November 12, 2009 3:27 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: wisteria/lighting previous > question/response > revisited > > Hi Len, > > Like I said, they are a 1/2" but so far all I can find around here > are "cool white" and "warm light" bulbs. > > Bill > > --- On Thu, 11/12/09, Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@... > <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com>> wrote: > > > From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@... > <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com>> > > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: wisteria/lighting previous > question/response revisited > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > Date: Thursday, November 12, 2009, 3:48 PM > > Bulb diameter is easy. Take the > > bulb and place it over a ruler/tape > > measurer and look straight down on it. It should be > > easy to discern between > > 1/2" (T-4) and 1" (T-8) and the T-5 (5/8") uses a > > completely different > > single pin on each end so that would eliminate that > > bulb. Or better yet.. > > take your bulb to the WalMart and compare apples to apples > > and you'll then > > know exactly what you have and also be able to see what > > your local WalMart > > offers as far as better bulbs. You can probably get > > much more lighting with > > a new $5.00 to $10.00 bulb. > > > > Then Santa can still bring you the bigger tank and > > accessories and your > > other tanks will also be far more functional in case you > > choose to sell them > > or just have more tanks. As far as selling your > > unused stuff, > > CraigsList.org is free and you can renew the ad every week > > until you find > > the right buyer who is willing to pay the best price you > > can get. > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed > > on the right > > side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives > > by Year, Month) > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] > > On > > Behalf Of bill 1433 > > Sent: Thursday, November 12, 2009 2:27 PM > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: wisteria/lighting previous > > question/response > > revisited > > > > Bulb Diameter Len, and now you see my problem. I > > haven't found any either. > > Also reading and studying all that you have sent me so far > > I come away from > > all of this with one single thought, is it worth it? > > > > > > With all this being said and it so close to the time for a > > visit from > > "Santa", I'm wondering if I should not put all you have > > taught me to better > > use by just getting something like a standard 55-gallon > > tank! These lights > > do cost a bit but there is not a huge different between > > size vs. cost from a > > 29 to a 55. Then to is the issue of what to do with > > the plastic covers I > > already have should I go to the all glass covers. > > > > Sell them, sure but to whom? Remember, I'm the guy > > that has a hard time > > just trying to find a place to buy fish around here, there > > just aren't that > > many places or people. No matter what I do, I promise > > to keep you posted. > > > > Thanks for all you've taught and helped me with, > > > > Bill > > > > > > --- On Thu, 11/12/09, Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@... > <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com>> > > wrote: > > > > > From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@... > <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com>> > > > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: wisteria/lighting > > previous > > question/response revisited > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > Date: Thursday, November 12, 2009, 2:42 PM > > > Once again Bill.... you need to get > > > away from the "Watts" mindset. It's > > > just not applicable with the wide array of bulbs > > available > > > nowadays. That > > > link goes to a CFL light strip and 65 watts of CFL > > lighting > > > is a LOT, LOT, > > > LOT (3 LOTS) more lighting than 65 watts of an > > incandescent > > > bulb and a LOT, > > > LOT (2 LOTS) more lighting than a 65W normal > > fluorescent > > > bulb. This would > > > probably increase your lighting by 10X's over what you > > have > > > now. If you > > > just went with 20W (range) CFL's, you'd get 2-3X's > > more > > > light than you > > > currently have. > > > > > > You still need to do some more research on your > > current > > > bulbs to find out > > > the specs on them. Without knowing your current > > > specs, it's difficult to > > > know how much more lighting you might want/need. > > > > > > Since you got your fixture and bulbs from DFS, I just > > did a > > > search of '17 > > > watt fluorescent' and four bulbs came up.. one was a > > CFL so > > > that wasn't it > > > and the other three are below BUT none of them are > > T-4's... > > > in fact, so far, > > > I have not been able to find a T-4, 17W bulb > > > anywhere. What are you > > > measuring to come up with the 1/2" figure? Bulb > > > diameter, pin separation or > > > other??? > > > > > > http://www.drsfostersmith.com/product/prod_display.cfm?pcatid=3787 > <http://www.drsfostersmith.com/product/prod_display.cfm?pcatid=3787> > > > (24", > > > T-8, 5500K, nothing for lumens) > > > > > > http://www.drsfostersmith.com/product/prod_display.cfm?pcatid=4491 > <http://www.drsfostersmith.com/product/prod_display.cfm?pcatid=4491> > > > (24", > > > T-8, Actinic 420nm, nothing for lumens) > > > > > > http://www.drsfostersmith.com/product/prod_display.cfm?pcatid=4489 > <http://www.drsfostersmith.com/product/prod_display.cfm?pcatid=4489> > > > (24", > > > T-8, 6500K, nothing for lumens) > > > > > > You need to take your bulb out and go to a local > > lighting > > > store (department) > > > or even the Walmart and see if they can give you more > > info > > > on it or at least > > > you might find identical sized bulbs that do have > > specs on > > > them so you can > > > be more informed about what you have. > > > > > > While I was at the DFS site, and since you previously > > > mentioned that you > > > have an All-Glass hood that came with the one bulb > > light > > > strip, I did a > > > search on DFS for 'All-Glass light' and found this > > link for > > > the only single > > > bulb light strip that All-Glass has on DFS' site. > > > > > > http://www.drsfostersmith.com/product/prod_display.cfm?pcatid=3793 > <http://www.drsfostersmith.com/product/prod_display.cfm?pcatid=3793> > > > > > > It comes in 16" or 20" lengths. There's a link to > > > "View compatible Bulbs" > > > in the Description tab, which brings up a page of > > bulbs and > > > ALL of the ones > > > compatible for the 20" strip are T-8 bulbs. There > > are > > > a couple of dozen > > > bulbs listed so I didn't go through them and > > unfortunately, > > > they do NOT list > > > the wattage on that list so I wasn't able to find any > > 17W > > > bulbs without > > > checking a bunch of links. Since it was an > > All-Glass > > > fixture, I did click > > > on the first All-Glass brand bulb which brought up > > this > > > page... > > > > > > > http://www.drsfostersmith.com/product/prod_display.cfm?pcatid=12850 > <http://www.drsfostersmith.com/product/prod_display.cfm?pcatid=12850> > > > > > > And you will see that there is either an 18", 15W bulb > > or a > > > 24", 17W bulb, > > > as well as others... and these are the 8000K bulbs > > which > > > were listed in the > > > description on the website link that you posted > > earlier > > > BUT.. these are ALL > > > T-8 bulbs, not T-4's so we're back to that spec issue > > > again. This page does > > > call them 8000K Daylight, Full Spectrum bulbs so maybe > > they > > > are OK but I > > > wish that the DFS site would list lumens since that is > > a > > > critical, > > > need-to-know piece of information that is missing. > > As > > > seen in my previous > > > posts, the same sized bulbs can have a lumen output > > that is > > > 50% to 100% > > > higher than a comparable bulb of the same size... and > > that > > > makes a HUGE > > > difference in lighting. > > > > > > Once again, take the bulb to your WalMart and compare > > > apples to apples and > > > find out exactly what size bulb you have and while > > there, > > > look at other > > > identical sized bulbs and look for the highest lumens > > in > > > the 5000K to 6500K > > > range, buy one and bring it home and see if it's a > > LOT > > > brighter than what > > > you now have. If so, that might do the trick. > > > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are > > listed > > > on the right > > > side, alphabetically under Labels and also under > > Archives > > > by Year, Month) > > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] > > > On > > > Behalf Of bill 1433 > > > Sent: Thursday, November 12, 2009 12:12 PM > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: wisteria/lighting > > previous > > > question/response > > > revisited > > > > > > Hi Amber, > > > > > > The links Len provided are very close BUT it's the > > ends of > > > the tube or pins > > > that worry me. They are very close but "how"? > > > > > > Meaning this buying the tube, ok by mail? Now what > > if > > > it doesn't work? > > > Rreturn a $10.00 tube the postage would cost more. > > > I'm trying to work > > > backward now from Len's link, and get a manufacture so > > I > > > can buy around > > > here. Also I'm getting made enough now to scrape > > the > > > whole thing and just > > > get a new All-Glass cover then maybe one of these: > > > > > > > > > > > > http://www.drsfostersmith.com/product/prod_display.cfm?c=3578+3733+9654+9871 > <http://www.drsfostersmith.com/product/prod_display.cfm?c=3578+3733+9654+9871> > > > &pcatid=9871 > > > > > > This link is not pointing to the exact Coralife > > product I > > > want at Doctors > > > its # apn-16981, if you have their catalog but I can't > > make > > > it come up on > > > search at their site. It is a single rated at 65 > > > watts and is 24". > > > > > > Bill > > > --- On Thu, 11/12/09, Amber Berglund <arberglund@... > <mailto:arberglund%40gmail.com>> > > > wrote: > > > > > > > From: Amber Berglund <arberglund@... > <mailto:arberglund%40gmail.com>> > > > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: wisteria/lighting > > > previous > > > question/response revisited > > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > Date: Thursday, November 12, 2009, 12:59 PM > > > > Bill does have T-4's if I remember > > > > correctly, maybe one of those 20watt > > > > bulbs will work for him and provide more lumens > > than > > > his > > > > current bulbs do. > > > > Did you check those links out Bill? ;) > > > > > > > > Amber > > > > > > > > Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > > > > > > > > > > Just because a fixture currently has a T-8 > > or > > > T-10, > > > > does not mean it > > > > > cannot > > > > > use a T-12, and vice versa. They are all > > medium > > > bi-pin > > > > bulbs, meaning they > > > > > all will fit and work UNLESS the reflector > > is so > > > tight > > > > that a T-12 cannot > > > > > fit inside the fixture but I haven't seen > > this as > > > a > > > > problem in the past. > > > > > Usually, going with a T-8 or T-10, instead > > of a > > > T-12 > > > > will give more lumens > > > > > but in the case of this particular sized > > bulb, > > > the > > > > T-12 may be the better > > > > > option. Of course, we still need more > > details on > > > > Bill's exact bulb. We > > > > > still do not know anything except that it's > > 17 > > > > watts... nothing about > > > > > lumens, K rating or anything else for > > comparison > > > > purposes. As Johnny 5 > > > > > once > > > > > said... "Need more input!" (I have no clue > > why > > > that > > > > OLD movie line popped > > > > > into my head and I can't blame it on drugs > > since > > > I > > > > didn't/don't do them... > > > > > and as far as I know, beer doesn't cause > > acid > > > > flashbacks. LOL > > > > > http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Short_Circuit > <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Short_Circuit> > > > > > <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Short_Circuit > <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Short_Circuit>>) > > > > > > > > > > Now... thinking back a little. Bill may > > have > > > T-4's and > > > > if he does, those > > > > > use the miniature bi-pin base and the above > > > larger > > > > T-#'s with medium > > > > > bi-pin > > > > > base would not work. If this is the case, > > there > > > are > > > > other options > > > > > listed on > > > > > this page... > > > > > > > > > http://www.servicelighting.com/T4-Straight-Linear-Fluorescent-Light-Bulbs > <http://www.servicelighting.com/T4-Straight-Linear-Fluorescent-Light-Bulbs> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > <http://www.servicelighting.com/T4-Straight-Linear-Fluorescent-Light-Bulbs > <http://www.servicelighting.com/T4-Straight-Linear-Fluorescent-Light-Bulbs>> > > > > > including this 20W, 6400K, 1340 Lumens bulb > > - > > > > > > > > > > > http://www.servicelighting.com/Bulbrite-85220-F20T4-64K-F20T4-D-T4-Straight- > <http://www.servicelighting.com/Bulbrite-85220-F20T4-64K-F20T4-D-T4-Straight-> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > <http://www.servicelighting.com/Bulbrite-85220-F20T4-64K-F20T4-D-T4-Straight > <http://www.servicelighting.com/Bulbrite-85220-F20T4-64K-F20T4-D-T4-Straight> > > > -> > > > > > Linear-Fluorescent-Light-Bulb, which sounds > > like > > > a > > > > pretty good bulb > > > > > from the > > > > > specs and actually provides more lumens than > > any > > > of > > > > the T-12's previously > > > > > listed. > > > > > > > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > > > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>> > > > > > (Links to any articles referenced in above > > reply > > > are > > > > listed on the right > > > > > side, alphabetically under Labels and also > > under > > > > Archives by Year, Month) > > > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On > > > > > Behalf Of Amber Berglund > > > > > Sent: Thursday, November 12, 2009 10:29 AM > > > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: > > wisteria/lighting > > > > previous > > > > > question/response > > > > > revisited > > > > > > > > > > Bill has smaller bulbs, I think they are not > > easy > > > to > > > > find in a higher > > > > > wattage output, which is what he was looking > > for > > > a few > > > > months back. > > > > > > > > > > Amber > > > > > > > > > > Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > I don't know what you mean by this. > > Please > > > > elaborate. What size tube? > > > > > > I posted about several different bulbs > > but > > > all > > > > were T-12's, which is > > > > > > one of the most common sizes. > > > > > > > > > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > > > > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>> > > > > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>>> > > > > > (Links to any articles referenced in > > > > > > above reply are listed on the right > > side, > > > > alphabetically under Labels > > > > > > and also under Archives by Year, > > Month) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > > > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On > > > > Behalf Of bill 1433 > > > > > > Sent: Thursday, November 12, 2009 8:59 > > AM > > > > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: > > > wisteria/lighting > > > > previous > > > > > > question/response revisited > > > > > > > > > > > > Yes Len, > > > > > > > > > > > > But its finding that size tube with > > more of > > > > anything that's the problem. > > > > > > > > > > > > Bill > > > > > > > > > > > > --- On Wed, 11/11/09, Lenny V. aka > > > GoldLenny > > > > <GoldLenny@... <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com> > > > > > > > > > <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com> > > > > > > > > <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com>> > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny > > <GoldLenny@... <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com> > > > > > > > > > <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com> > > > > > > > > <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com>> > > > > > > > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: > > > > wisteria/lighting previous > > > > > > > question/response revisited > > > > > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > Date: Wednesday, November 11, > > 2009, > > > 5:22 PM > > > > Well, if you only have > > > > > > > 17W, then you could definitely do > > > better > > > > with the 20W, higher lumen, > > > > > > > better K rating bulbs that I > > > mentioned. > > > > Considering the lumen > > > > > > > ratings of fluorescent bulbs I've > > > looked at, > > > > your 17W bulbs might > > > > > > > only have 500-700 lumens where the > > BEST > > > 20W > > > > bulb (below) has > > > > > > > 1075 lumens so you > > > > > > > could possibly increase your > > lighting > > > by 50% > > > > to 100% just by > > > > > > > changing to that bulb. At least, > > with > > > that > > > > bulb, you'll be in the > > > > > > > low-light range for plants on the > > 20G > > > but > > > > the 29G will need some work. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Of course, you should find out > > what > > > the > > > > lumens and K ratings are on > > > > > > > the bulbs you have so you'll know > > if > > > you are > > > > getting a small jump or > > > > > > > a BIG jump in lighting just by > > changing > > > your > > > > bulbs. Check your local > > > > > > > WalMart for bulbs. My nearby > > WalMart > > > > SuperCenter has a really big > > > > > > > assortment of fluorescent tubes > > and > > > they > > > > were cheaper than the Home > > > > > > > Depot. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Something else I'm thinking about > > for > > > you is > > > > going with 18" > > > > > > > light-sticks on > > > > > > > each end of your 29G tank or front > > or > > > back > > > > (back would hide it best > > > > > > > but you decide your best > > aesthetics) > > > and > > > > you'd have to make a DIY > > > > > > > reflector for it (white poster > > board > > > and > > > > scotch tape would work) and > > > > > > > that would get more lighting down > > to > > > the > > > > bottom level plants in the > > > > > > > 29G. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > > > > > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>> > > > > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>>> > > > > > (Links to any articles > > > > > > > referenced in above reply are > > listed on > > > the > > > > right side, > > > > > > > alphabetically under Labels and > > also > > > under > > > > Archives by Year, Month) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > > > > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] > > > > > > > On > > > > > > > Behalf Of bill 1433 > > > > > > > Sent: Wednesday, November 11, 2009 > > 3:42 > > > PM > > > > > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: > > > > wisteria/lighting previous > > > > > > > question/response revisited > > > > > > > > > > > > > > It is what it is type of thing > > Len. > > > Site > > > > says one thing but stamped > > > > > > > or printed right on the tube is at > > 17 > > > > watts. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Bill > > > > > > > > > > > > > > --- On Wed, 11/11/09, Lenny V. > > aka > > > GoldLenny > > > > <GoldLenny@... <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com> > > > > > > > > > <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com> > > > > > > > > <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com>> > > > > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny > > > <GoldLenny@... <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com> > > > > > > > > > <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com> > > > > > > > > <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com>> > > > > > > > > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] > > Re: > > > > wisteria/lighting > > > > > > > previous > > > > > > > > question/response revisited > > > > > > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > > Date: Wednesday, November > > 11, > > > 2009, > > > > 2:16 PM The > > > > > > > problem might be this > > > > > > > > statement in the > > description... > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > "... Hoods include 8000ºK > > > bulb... > > > > ...20W, 24"..." > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > That's getting into the > > higher > > > > green/blue Kelvin > > > > > > > range... > > > > > > > > closer to the > > > > > > > > 10,000K actinic type bulbs... > > than > > > the > > > > 5000K to 6500K > > > > > > > "Daylight" bulbs > > > > > > > > that provide full spectrum > > > lighting. > > > > It's also only > > > > > > > a 20W bulb > > > > > > > > (according to the DFS site, > > > although > > > > you stated it was > > > > > > > only 17W so > > > > > > > > double check this) so it's > > only > > > 1WPG on > > > > the 20G and > > > > > > > only 0.69WPG on > > > > > > > > the 29G. Of course, if the > > bulb > > > puts > > > > out a LOT more > > > > > > > lumens (you would > > > > > > > > have to do more checking up > > on the > > > bulb > > > > to find this), > > > > > > > that would help > > > > > > > > a little but not much. I > > think you > > > need > > > > at least > > > > > > > 1WPG to have success > > > > > > > > with low-light plants, > > although > > > > floating plants like > > > > > > > Anacharis, > > > > > > > > Hornwort, Duckweed, etc., > > would be > > > up > > > > close to the > > > > > > > light and benefit > > > > > > > > from CO2 from the air and > > would do > > > OK > > > > with your > > > > > > > lighting... but then > > > > > > > > they would also block out > > the > > > lighting > > > > to the rest of > > > > > > > the tank. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I don't see a lot of options, > > as > > > far as > > > > T-8 bulbs are > > > > > > > concerned for > > > > > > > > this size fixture but I see a > > few > > > > different T-12's... > > > > > > > such as... > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > (My rating is: GOOD - but > > see > > > BETTER > > > > and BEST options > > > > > > > below... at > > > > > > > > least as far as the bulbs on > > this > > > site > > > > are concerned) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > http://www.servicelighting.com/Sylvania-22119-F20T12-DSGN50-T12-Straig > <http://www.servicelighting.com/Sylvania-22119-F20T12-DSGN50-T12-Straig> > > > > > > > > > > > > <http://www.servicelighting.com/Sylvania-22119-F20T12-DSGN50-T12-Straig > <http://www.servicelighting.com/Sylvania-22119-F20T12-DSGN50-T12-Straig>> > > > > > > > > > > > > <http://www.servicelighting.com/Sylvania-22119-F20T12-DSGN50-T12-Strai > <http://www.servicelighting.com/Sylvania-22119-F20T12-DSGN50-T12-Strai> > > > > > > > > > > > > <http://www.servicelighting.com/Sylvania-22119-F20T12-DSGN50-T12-Strai > <http://www.servicelighting.com/Sylvania-22119-F20T12-DSGN50-T12-Strai>> > > > > > > g> > > > > > > > > ht-Lin > > > > > > > > ear-Fluorescent-Light-Bulb > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Light Output: 880 lumens > > > > > > > > Refers to the literal measure > > of > > > the > > > > light-output of a > > > > > > > particular > > > > > > > > light bulb, measured in the > > number > > > of > > > > lumens. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Energy Used: 20 watts > > > > > > > > "Watts" is the term applied > > to > > > the > > > > amount of energy > > > > > > > required and used > > > > > > > > by a particular light bulb. > > It is > > > an > > > > international > > > > > > > system unit of > > > > > > > > power equal to one joule per > > > second. > > > > Contrary to > > > > > > > popular belief, the > > > > > > > > wattage of a bulb does not > > > directly > > > > measure the > > > > > > > brightness; the > > > > > > > > "lumens" of a light is what > > > defines the > > > > actual light > > > > > > > output. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Average Lifetime: 9,000 > > hours > > > > > > > > This refers to an average > > > lifetime > > > > rating based on > > > > > > > large quantities in > > > > > > > > test groups. This testing > > takes > > > into > > > > account usage of > > > > > > > 3 hours per > > > > > > > > start for fluorescent lamps > > and > > > 10 > > > > hours per start for > > > > > > > HID lamps. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Bulb Type: T12 > > > > > > > > The "Bulb Type" is typically > > a > > > > combination of the > > > > > > > style of bulb as > > > > > > > > well as the width of the > > bulb. > > > Usually, > > > > the first > > > > > > > couple letters will > > > > > > > > indicate the type; "G" would > > > indicate > > > > "Globe", "PAR" > > > > > > > would indicate > > > > > > > > "Parabolic Reflector"... The > > > numbers > > > > indicate the > > > > > > > diameter of the > > > > > > > > light bulb in eighths of an > > inch; > > > a > > > > "G40" would be a > > > > > > > "Globe" style > > > > > > > > that is "5 inches" in > > diameter. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Base Type: Medium Bi-Pin > > > > > > > > The "Base" of a light bulb is > > the > > > part > > > > that either > > > > > > > screws or snaps > > > > > > > > into a receptacle. Base Type > > > > terminology may indicate > > > > > > > common > > > > > > > > descriptive words like > > "Medium" > > > or > > > > "Candelabra", or > > > > > > > may even contain > > > > > > > > numeric codes that signify > > size > > > and > > > > variety, like > > > > > > > "E26" or "2GX13". > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Color Temperature: 5,000K > > > > > > > > Correlated Color Temperature > > (CCT) > > > is a > > > > specification > > > > > > > of the color > > > > > > > > appearance of a lamp, > > relating > > > its > > > > color to that of a > > > > > > > reference source > > > > > > > > heated to a particular > > > temperature, > > > > measured in > > > > > > > degrees Kelvin (K). It > > > > > > > > generally measures the > > "warmth" > > > or > > > > "coolness" of light > > > > > > > source > > > > > > > > appearance. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > CRI: 90 > > > > > > > > CRI refers to the "Color > > > Rendering > > > > Index" of a light > > > > > > > bulb. > > > > > > > > CRI measures a > > > > > > > > light source and grades its > > > ability to > > > > render the > > > > > > > color of objects > > > > > > > > "correctly," as compared with > > a > > > > reference source with > > > > > > > comparable color > > > > > > > > temperature. 100 is perfect > > > rendering. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Length: 24 inches > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > (BETTER - slightly higher > > lumens > > > and > > > > higher 6500K > > > > > > > rating) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > http://www.servicelighting.com/Westinghouse-36516-F20T12-FS-T12-Straig > <http://www.servicelighting.com/Westinghouse-36516-F20T12-FS-T12-Straig> > > > > > > > > > > > > <http://www.servicelighting.com/Westinghouse-36516-F20T12-FS-T12-Straig > <http://www.servicelighting.com/Westinghouse-36516-F20T12-FS-T12-Straig>> > > > > > > > > > > > > <http://www.servicelighting.com/Westinghouse-36516-F20T12-FS-T12-Strai > <http://www.servicelighting.com/Westinghouse-36516-F20T12-FS-T12-Strai> > > > > > > > > > > > > <http://www.servicelighting.com/Westinghouse-36516-F20T12-FS-T12-Strai > <http://www.servicelighting.com/Westinghouse-36516-F20T12-FS-T12-Strai>> > > > > > > g> > > > > > > > > ht-Lin > > > > > > > > ear-Fluorescent-Light-Bulb > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Light Output: 900 lumens > > > > > > > > Energy Used: 20 watts > > > > > > > > Average Lifetime: 10,000 > > hours > > > > > > > > Bulb Type: T12 > > > > > > > > Base Type: Medium Bi-Pin > > > > > > > > Color Temperature: 6,500K > > > > > > > > CRI: 90 > > > > > > > > Length: 24 inches > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > (BEST, of these three - > > around > > > 20% > > > > higher lumens and > > > > > > > good 6,500K > > > > > > > > rating, although it does have > > a > > > lower > > > > CRI rating.. but > > > > > > > still > > > > > > > > passing) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > http://www.servicelighting.com/Sylvania-22083-F20T12-D-T12-Straight-Li > <http://www.servicelighting.com/Sylvania-22083-F20T12-D-T12-Straight-Li> > > > > > > > > > > > > <http://www.servicelighting.com/Sylvania-22083-F20T12-D-T12-Straight-Li > <http://www.servicelighting.com/Sylvania-22083-F20T12-D-T12-Straight-Li>> > > > > > > > > > > > > <http://www.servicelighting.com/Sylvania-22083-F20T12-D-T12-Straight-L > <http://www.servicelighting.com/Sylvania-22083-F20T12-D-T12-Straight-L> > > > > > > > > > > > > <http://www.servicelighting.com/Sylvania-22083-F20T12-D-T12-Straight-L > <http://www.servicelighting.com/Sylvania-22083-F20T12-D-T12-Straight-L>> > > > > > > i> > > > > > > > > near-F > > > > > > > > luorescent-Light-Bulb > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Light Output: 1,075 lumens > > > > > > > > Energy Used: 20 watts > > > > > > > > Average Lifetime: 9,000 > > hours > > > > > > > > Bulb Type: T12 > > > > > > > > Base Type: Medium Bi-Pin > > > > > > > > Color Temperature: 6,500K > > > > > > > > CRI: 76 > > > > > > > > Length: 24 inches > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Compare the above three to > > what is > > > sold > > > > as a > > > > > > > plant/aquarium light by > > > > > > > > the same company, which has > > a > > > lower > > > > lumens, MUCH lower > > > > > > > CRI rating and > > > > > > > > does not list the K rating > > other > > > than > > > > to say "Plant" > > > > > > > which is a > > > > > > > > subjective rating established > > by > > > the > > > > manufacturer. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > (WORST) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > http://www.servicelighting.com/Westinghouse-36411-F20T12-PL-T12-Straig > <http://www.servicelighting.com/Westinghouse-36411-F20T12-PL-T12-Straig> > > > > > > > > > > > > <http://www.servicelighting.com/Westinghouse-36411-F20T12-PL-T12-Straig > <http://www.servicelighting.com/Westinghouse-36411-F20T12-PL-T12-Straig>> > > > > > > > > > > > > <http://www.servicelighting.com/Westinghouse-36411-F20T12-PL-T12-Strai > <http://www.servicelighting.com/Westinghouse-36411-F20T12-PL-T12-Strai> > > > > > > > > > > > > <http://www.servicelighting.com/Westinghouse-36411-F20T12-PL-T12-Strai > <http://www.servicelighting.com/Westinghouse-36411-F20T12-PL-T12-Strai>> > > > > > > g> > > > > > > > > ht-Lin > > > > > > > > ear-Fluorescent-Light-Bulb > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Light Output: 700 lumens > > (over 30% > > > less > > > > lighting > > > > > > > than the 1,075 > > > > > > > > lumens bulb > > > > > > > > above) > > > > > > > > Energy Used: 20 watts > > > > > > > > Average Lifetime: 10,000 > > hours > > > > > > > > Bulb Type: T12 > > > > > > > > Base Type: Medium Bi-Pin > > > > > > > > Color: Plant > > > > > > > > CRI: 61 > > > > > > > > Length: 24 inches > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > If any of the above have > > much > > > better > > > > lumens than your > > > > > > > current > > > > > > > > lighting... > > > > > > > > and they all have better K > > > ratings, > > > > then any of them > > > > > > > would be better > > > > > > > > for you... but you would > > still be > > > stuck > > > > with only 20 > > > > > > > watts but it's > > > > > > > > the LUMENS and K rating that > > count > > > more > > > > than watts. > > > > > > > You need to find > > > > > > > > out the lumens on your bulb. > > Try > > > to > > > > find it on the > > > > > > > DFS site and let > > > > > > > > us know. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > You should look at the > > > AHSupply.com > > > > place for a > > > > > > > retrofit kit so you > > > > > > > > can use CFL's in your > > current > > > hood. > > > > That would > > > > > > > probably be your least > > > > > > > > expensive option. I know you > > don't > > > like > > > > electricity > > > > > > > but I'm sure you > > > > > > > > know someone that could do > > this > > > for > > > > you... on the > > > > > > > cheap... or over a > > > > > > > > 6-pack. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > > > > > > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>> > > > > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>>> > > > > > (Links to > > > > > > > any articles > > > > > > > > referenced in above reply > > are > > > listed on > > > > the right > > > > > > > side, alphabetically > > > > > > > > under Labels and also under > > > Archives by > > > > Year, Month) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > > > > > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] > > > > > > > > On > > > > > > > > Behalf Of bill 1433 > > > > > > > > Sent: Wednesday, November 11, > > 2009 > > > 9:33 > > > > AM > > > > > > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] > > Re: > > > > wisteria/lighting > > > > > > > previous > > > > > > > > question/response > > > > > > > > revisited > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Hi \\Steve// > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > At this point, and also to > > refresh > > > your > > > > mind, and > > > > > > > anyone > > > > > > > > else on the group > > > > > > > > that may have interest. This > > all > > > got > > > > started with > > > > > > > my > > > > > > > > search for a tube that > > > > > > > > would allow me more light > > output > > > from > > > > an All Glass > > > > > > > Plastic > > > > > > > > hood and light. > > > > > > > > This unit comes with a "color > > type > > > tube > > > > at 17 watts > > > > > > > that is > > > > > > > > only 24 inches > > > > > > > > long. This is for a > > 20/29-gallon > > > tank. > > > > I was stupid enough to buy > > > > > > > > two of them, one for each > > tank. > > > For > > > > further inspection > > > > > > > here > > > > > > > > is the light: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > http://www.drsfostersmith.com/product/prod_display.cfm?pcatid=13447 > <http://www.drsfostersmith.com/product/prod_display.cfm?pcatid=13447> > > > > > > > > > > <http://www.drsfostersmith.com/product/prod_display.cfm?pcatid=13447 > <http://www.drsfostersmith.com/product/prod_display.cfm?pcatid=13447>> > > > > > > > <http://www.drsfostersmith.com/product/prod_display.cfm?pcatid=13447 > <http://www.drsfostersmith.com/product/prod_display.cfm?pcatid=13447> > > > > > > > > > > <http://www.drsfostersmith.com/product/prod_display.cfm?pcatid=13447 > <http://www.drsfostersmith.com/product/prod_display.cfm?pcatid=13447>>> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > For those that would like to > > > aggravate > > > > themselves > > > > > > > further, > > > > > > > > I can also state > > > > > > > > that these hoods are very > > > conducive to > > > > growing Black Algae! > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Summoning up, I should have > > only > > > > purchased an > > > > > > > All-Glass > > > > > > > > cover and then > > > > > > > > probably a double tube light > > of > > > > sufficient wattage to > > > > > > > bring > > > > > > > > me up to the > > > > > > > > recommended 2 or 3 watts per > > > gallon. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Ya live and learn, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Bill > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > --- On Tue, 11/10/09, Steve > > Szabo > > > > <steve@... <mailto:steve%40familyszabo.com> > > > > > > > > > <mailto:steve%40familyszabo.com> > > > > > > > > <mailto:steve%40familyszabo.com>> > > > > > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > From: Steve Szabo <steve@... > <mailto:steve%40familyszabo.com> > > > > > > > > > <mailto:steve%40familyszabo.com> > > > > > > > > <mailto:steve%40familyszabo.com>> > > > > > > > > > Subject: RE: > > [AquaticLife] > > > Re: > > > > wisteria/lighting > > > > > > > > previous > > > > > > > > > question/response > > revisited > > > > > > > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > > > Date: Tuesday, November > > 10, > > > 2009, > > > > 11:50 PM Bill, > > > > > > > you > > > > > > > > got it right! The > > > > > > > > > T numbers represent the > > > diameter > > > > of the bulb in > > > > > > > 1/8" > > > > > > > > increments. A T4 > > > > > > > > > is a bulb 1/2" in > > diameter, > > > T5 is > > > > 5/8", t8 is > > > > > > > 1" and > > > > > > > > a t12 is 1 1/2". > > > > > > > > > As I recall, the F is > > the > > > wattage > > > > of the bulb. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Lumens, not usually > > stated on > > > the > > > > bulb is the > > > > > > > actual > > > > > > > > amount of light > > > > > > > > > coming from the bulb. > > It > > > really > > > > does not have > > > > > > > anything > > > > > > > > to do with > > > > > > > > > watts, though more watts > > will > > > give > > > > you more > > > > > > > lumens, > > > > > > > > but, also the > > > > > > > > > phosphors used in the > > bulb > > > affect > > > > the amount of > > > > > > > lumen > > > > > > > > output. Lumens > > > > > > > > > and lux are often used > > > > interchangeably, but they > > > > > > > are > > > > > > > > really different > > > > > > > > > measurements. Lux is > > the > > > measure > > > > of illumination > > > > > > > over > > > > > > > > a given area. It > > > > > > > > > may actually be more > > > important to > > > > aquarists > > > > > > > raising > > > > > > > > plants than the > > > > > > > > > lumen output. Lux is > > what is > > > > measured by a light > > > > > > > > meter, for anyone who > > > > > > > > > happens to know what > > they > > > are--not > > > > often seen > > > > > > > with > > > > > > > > today's cameras and > > > > > > > > > photographers. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Color temperature is > > > important. > > > > Average daylight > > > > > > > > (except may in > > > > > > > > > Amber's area where they > > have > > > 6 > > > > months of > > > > > > > darkness) has > > > > > > > > a color > > > > > > > > > temperature of > > 5500-6000. > > > > > > > > > An overcast day can have > > a > > > color > > > > temperature of > > > > > > > 6500. > > > > > > > > As mentioned > > > > > > > > > earlier, plants need > > light in > > > two > > > > color > > > > > > > spectrums, > > > > > > > > and, actually they > > > > > > > > > are rather narrow spans > > of > > > > wavelengths they > > > > > > > benefit > > > > > > > > from. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I thought I had a > > bookmark > > > > explaining this, but > > > > > > > I > > > > > > > > can't find it > > > > > > > > > quickly (over 400K of > > > bookmarks, > > > > and things have > > > > > > > a > > > > > > > > tendency to get > > > > > > > > > lost), however, some > > > judicial > > > > Googling will gain > > > > > > > you > > > > > > > > the information. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > \\Steve// > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -----Original > > Message----- > > > > > > > > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > > > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] > > > > > > > > > On > > > > > > > > > Behalf Of bill 1433 > > > > > > > > > Sent: Tuesday, November > > 10, > > > 2009 > > > > 10:20 PM > > > > > > > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > > > Subject: Re: > > [AquaticLife] > > > Re: > > > > wisteria/lighting > > > > > > > > previous > > > > > > > > > question/response > > revisited > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Yes, Amber > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > It was I, looking for > > the > > > original > > > > information > > > > > > > and > > > > > > > > also looked back on > > > > > > > > > \\Steve//'s post at > > group to > > > try > > > > and find. Ray > > > > > > > had > > > > > > > > mentioned all this > > > > > > > > > the other day saying > > that he > > > > thought the posting > > > > > > > came > > > > > > > > from \\Steve//. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I was not successful in > > my > > > search. > > > > Also, for me > > > > > > > the > > > > > > > > most important > > > > > > > > > part was a link to a > > chart > > > which > > > > showed you > > > > > > > exactly, > > > > > > > > or explained > > > > > > > > > exactly the "T" > > > > > > > > > factor stands for. For > > > instance, > > > > T-4 would be a > > > > > > > tube > > > > > > > > that is a half > > > > > > > > > inch wide, or close to > > > > it-----------I think. > > > > > > > All > > > > > > > > this is my own > > > > > > > > > fault. In my interest > > to > > > acquire > > > > and learn > > > > > > > about > > > > > > > > lighting,I went > > > > > > > > > through and studied the > > > applied > > > > links but being > > > > > > > > ol'bill, I never > > > > > > > > > bookmarked them. > > > > > > > > > Then to further > > > > > > > > > compound the problem, I > > > deleted > > > > the original > > > > > > > message > > > > > > > > that it came > > > > > > > > > from. In hind-sight you > > > could > > > > probably chalk > > > > > > > this > > > > > > > > all up to felonious > > > > > > > > > stupidity on my part. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Bill---where its always > > a > > > good day > > > > if I learn > > > > > > > > something new! > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > --- On Tue, 11/10/09, > > Amber > > > > Berglund <arberglund@... <mailto:arberglund%40gmail.com> > > > > > > > > > <mailto:arberglund%40gmail.com> > > > > > > > > <mailto:arberglund%40gmail.com>> > > > > > > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > From: Amber Berglund > > <arberglund@... <mailto:arberglund%40gmail.com> > > > > > > > > > <mailto:arberglund%40gmail.com> > > > > > > > > <mailto:arberglund%40gmail.com>> > > > > > > > > > Subject: Re: > > [AquaticLife] > > > Re: > > > > wisteria/lighting > > > > > > > > previous > > > > > > > > > question/response > > revisited > > > > > > > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > > > Date: Tuesday, November > > 10, > > > 2009, > > > > 9:30 PM > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I believe it was Steve > > who > > > posted > > > > a link about > > > > > > > lumens > > > > > > > > months back when > > > > > > > > > (I think it was maybe > > Bill > > > asking) > > > > about lighting > > > > > > > for > > > > > > > > planted > > > > > > > > > aquariums. > > > > > > > > > Plants require 2 > > different > > > > spectrums of light to > > > > > > > > properly produce > > > > > > > > > either leaves or flowers > > (red > > > is > > > > more for flower > > > > > > > > production and blue > > > > > > > > > is more for growth, but > > for > > > the > > > > best growing you > > > > > > > want > > > > > > > > a mixture of > > > > > > > > > BOTH colors). > > > > > > > > > So in reality you would > > want > > > a > > > > light that appears > > > > > > > more > > > > > > > > brown/reddish > > > > > > > > > in coloring and a > > blue/white > > > > coloring as well, > > > > > > > but > > > > > > > > they now have bulbs > > > > > > > > > that have BOTH > > spectrums > > > built in > > > > (I'm sure they > > > > > > > don't > > > > > > > > work as well as > > > > > > > > > it would to have 2 > > different > > > bulbs > > > > one mostly red > > > > > > > and > > > > > > > > the other mostly > > > > > > > > > blue on the color > > spectrum). > > > > > > > > > Let me see if I still > > have > > > the > > > > link bookmarked. > > > > > > > > > What I was trying to say > > is > > > that > > > > Kelvin does not > > > > > > > tell > > > > > > > > you what color > > > > > > > > > spectrum the light > > REALLY is, > > > it's > > > > actually > > > > > > > measuring > > > > > > > > it's light > > > > > > > > > output color according > > to how > > > the > > > > human eyes > > > > > > > perceive > > > > > > > > it. So 6500 > > > > > > > > > kelvin in general is > > what > > > most > > > > plants will > > > > > > > prefer > > > > > > > > because that is a > > > > > > > > > mixture of both red and > > blue > > > > spectrums (In MOST > > > > > > > bulbs) > > > > > > > > unfortunately > > > > > > > > > not all light bulb > > > manufactures > > > > have to use the > > > > > > > exact > > > > > > > > same chart for > > > > > > > > > their colors, so they > > will > > > have > > > > different colors > > > > > > > than > > > > > > > > another bulb > > > > > > > > > that says it's 6500 > > Kelvin. > > > what > > > > you really need > > > > > > > to > > > > > > > > read is the color > > > > > > > > > chart on the box, not > > what > > > lumens > > > > it says it is. > > > > > > > > > (still searching for > > link, > > > LOL). > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > This isn't the right > > link but > > > it > > > > discusses the > > > > > > > > kelvin/lumen problems a > > > > > > > > > little bit, still > > looking for > > > the > > > > link that > > > > > > > showed the > > > > > > > > charts and what > > > > > > > > > to look for in the > > color > > > charts. > > > > > > > > > > http://www.americanaquariumproducts.com/Aquarium_Lighting.html > <http://www.americanaquariumproducts.com/Aquarium_Lighting.html> > > > > > > > > > > <http://www.americanaquariumproducts.com/Aquarium_Lighting.html > <http://www.americanaquariumproducts.com/Aquarium_Lighting.html>> > > > > > > > <http://www.americanaquariumproducts.com/Aquarium_Lighting.html > <http://www.americanaquariumproducts.com/Aquarium_Lighting.html> > > > > > > > > > > <http://www.americanaquariumproducts.com/Aquarium_Lighting.html > <http://www.americanaquariumproducts.com/Aquarium_Lighting.html>>> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Will post again when I > > find > > > the > > > > other link with > > > > > > > chart > > > > > > > > examples. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Amber > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Lenny V. aka GoldLenny > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I think it would > > be > > > false > > > > advertising or > > > > > > > > possibly > > > > > > > > > mis-advertising (if > > they > > > > > > > > > > do not know any > > better) > > > if a > > > > company lists > > > > > > > their > > > > > > > > bulbs > > > > > > > > > as 6500K and they > > > > > > > > > > aren't. The Kelvin > > > scale, > > > > just like Watts > > > > > > > and > > > > > > > > Lumens, > > > > > > > > > are ALL > > > > > > > > > > universal and > > > > > > > > > > scientifically > > > measurable > > > > scales BUT, as I > > > > > > > > showed > > > > > > > > > below, not all 40 watt > > > > > > > > > > bulbs put out the > > same > > > amount > > > > of light > > > > > > > (lumens) > > > > > > > > or in > > > > > > > > > the same color > > > > > > > > > > spectrum (Kelvin > > > rating). All > > > > 40 watt > > > > > > > bulbs, > > > > > > > > whether > > > > > > > > > incandescent, > > > > > > > > > > fluorescent, CFL, > > LED, > > > > Halogen, etc.... ALL > > > > > > > use > > > > > > > > > only/around 40 watts of > > > > > > > > > > electricity but > > their > > > light > > > > output can vary > > > > > > > > > dramatically. This is > > why > > > > > > > > > > fluorescent bulbs > > are so > > > much > > > > more > > > > > > > efficient > > > > > > > > than > > > > > > > > > incandescent bulbs and > > > > > > > > > > CFL's are even > > more > > > > efficient... as a 40W > > > > > > > > fluorescent > > > > > > > > > bulb puts out a LOT > > > > > > > > > > more light (lumens) > > than > > > a 40 > > > > watt > > > > > > > incandescent > > > > > > > > bulb > > > > > > > > > and a 40W CFL > > > > > > > > > > puts out > > > > > > > > > > more light (lumens) > > than > > > a > > > > 40W fluorescent > > > > > > > bulb. > > > > > > > > This > > > > > > > > > is why the OLD > > > > > > > > > > "Watts > > > > > > > > > > Per Gallon" rule > > simply > > > does > > > > not work any > > > > > > > more. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > BUT.. if three > > > different > > > > companies are > > > > > > > selling > > > > > > > > > standard T-10 > > fluorescent > > > > > > > > > > bulbs with the > > same > > > exact > > > > rating of 40W, > > > > > > > 3550 > > > > > > > > lumens > > > > > > > > > and 6500K > > > > > > > > > > rating... all > > > > > > > > > > three of those > > bulbs > > > should > > > > be VERY SIMILAR > > > > > > > if > > > > > > > > not > > > > > > > > > identical in the > > > > > > > > > > way they > > > > > > > > > > appear to our eyes > > > (subject > > > > to our own > > > > > > > degree of > > > > > > > > color > > > > > > > > > blindness, of > > > > > > > > > > course!) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > In the past, > > things > > > like > > > > "soft white", > > > > > > > "warm > > > > > > > > white", > > > > > > > > > "daylight", "plant > > > > > > > > > > grow", etc., type > > terms > > > were > > > > used and are > > > > > > > still > > > > > > > > used > > > > > > > > > but those are just > > > > > > > > > > simple words (not > > > subject to > > > > a scientific > > > > > > > scale) > > > > > > > > to > > > > > > > > > describe the Kelvin > > > > > > > > > > rating ranges but > > lumens > > > are > > > > just as > > > > > > > important > > > > > > > > since a > > > > > > > > > bulb could have a > > > > > > > > > > 6500K rating with > > only > > > 2200 > > > > lumens where > > > > > > > another > > > > > > > > bulb > > > > > > > > > could have a 6500K > > > > > > > > > > rating and 3550 or > > 3700 > > > > lumens and that > > > > > > > bulb > > > > > > > > would put > > > > > > > > > out over 50% more > > > > > > > > > > light (lumens) in > > the > > > same > > > > color spectrum > > > > > > > > (Kelvin > > > > > > > > > rating) so it would be > > a > > > > > > > > > > much more cost > > effective > > > bulb > > > > if it cost > > > > > > > the > > > > > > > > same > > > > > > > > > amount or only a little > > > > > > > > > > more. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I'm slightly > > confused > > > about > > > > the "red and > > > > > > > blue > > > > > > > > light > > > > > > > > > for your plants" as > > > > > > > > > > those two colors > > are on > > > > opposite ends of > > > > > > > the > > > > > > > > Kelvin > > > > > > > > > Scale with reds and > > > > > > > > > > ambers in the > > lower > > > numbers > > > > and greens and > > > > > > > blues > > > > > > > > in > > > > > > > > > the higher numbers. I > > > > > > > > > > think this is why > > you > > > would > > > > want a > > > > > > > mid-range > > > > > > > > (5000K to > > > > > > > > > 6500K) bulb as > > > > > > > > > > those > > > > > > > > > > are generally > > > considered > > > > "full spectrum" or > > > > > > > > "daylight" > > > > > > > > > bulbs. Here's a > > > > > > > > > > color picture of > > the > > > Kelvin > > > > Scale, > > > > > > > > > > > http://www.bltdirect.com/images/colour-temperature.jpg > <http://www.bltdirect.com/images/colour-temperature.jpg> > > > > > > > > > <http://www.bltdirect.com/images/colour-temperature.jpg > <http://www.bltdirect.com/images/colour-temperature.jpg>> > > > > > > <http://www.bltdirect.com/images/colour-temperature.jpg > <http://www.bltdirect.com/images/colour-temperature.jpg> > > > > > > > > > <http://www.bltdirect.com/images/colour-temperature.jpg > <http://www.bltdirect.com/images/colour-temperature.jpg>>> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > <http://www.bltdirect.com/images/colour-temperature.jpg > <http://www.bltdirect.com/images/colour-temperature.jpg> > > > > > > > > > <http://www.bltdirect.com/images/colour-temperature.jpg > <http://www.bltdirect.com/images/colour-temperature.jpg>> > > > > > > <http://www.bltdirect.com/images/colour-temperature.jpg > <http://www.bltdirect.com/images/colour-temperature.jpg> > > > > > > > > > <http://www.bltdirect.com/images/colour-temperature.jpg > <http://www.bltdirect.com/images/colour-temperature.jpg>>>> > > > > > > > > > and you can > > > > > > > > > > visually > > > > > > > > > > see that the 5000K > > to > > > 6500K > > > > range is all > > > > > > > about > > > > > > > > the > > > > > > > > > same "color". I think > > > > > > > > > > this is also why > > > Actinic > > > > bulbs are usually > > > > > > > higher > > > > > > > > and > > > > > > > > > closer to the 10000K > > > > > > > > > > range and up... > > > apparently, > > > > the Kelvin > > > > > > > lighting > > > > > > > > scale > > > > > > > > > can go up to 20,000K > > > > > > > > > > (according to this > > > article > > > > about Reef Tanks > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > http://nh.craigslist.org/for/1423072406.html > <http://nh.craigslist.org/for/1423072406.html> > > > > > <http://nh.craigslist.org/for/1423072406.html > <http://nh.craigslist.org/for/1423072406.html>> > > > > > > <http://nh.craigslist.org/for/1423072406.html > <http://nh.craigslist.org/for/1423072406.html> > > > > > <http://nh.craigslist.org/for/1423072406.html > <http://nh.craigslist.org/for/1423072406.html>>> > > > > > > > > > > <http://nh.craigslist.org/for/1423072406.html > <http://nh.craigslist.org/for/1423072406.html> > > > > > <http://nh.craigslist.org/for/1423072406.html > <http://nh.craigslist.org/for/1423072406.html>> > > > > > > <http://nh.craigslist.org/for/1423072406.html > <http://nh.craigslist.org/for/1423072406.html> > > > > > <http://nh.craigslist.org/for/1423072406.html > <http://nh.craigslist.org/for/1423072406.html>>>> > > > > on, > > > > > > > > of > > > > > > > > > all places, > > > > > > > > > > Craigslist). > > > > > > > > > > Here is the page > > that > > > that > > > > the above photo > > > > > > > link > > > > > > > > came > > > > > > > > > from and it has a > > > > > > > > > > chart > > > > > > > > > > that also explains > > > things a > > > > little more also > > > > > > > and > > > > > > > > talks > > > > > > > > > about the CRI, yet > > > > > > > > > > another lighting > > term > > > (Color > > > > Rendition > > > > > > > Index). > > > > > > > > > > http://www.bltdirect.com/lampColourTemperatures.php > <http://www.bltdirect.com/lampColourTemperatures.php> > > > > > <http://www.bltdirect.com/lampColourTemperatures.php > <http://www.bltdirect.com/lampColourTemperatures.php>> > > > > > > <http://www.bltdirect.com/lampColourTemperatures.php > <http://www.bltdirect.com/lampColourTemperatures.php> > > > > > <http://www.bltdirect.com/lampColourTemperatures.php > <http://www.bltdirect.com/lampColourTemperatures.php>>> > > > > > > > > > > <http://www.bltdirect.com/lampColourTemperatures.php > <http://www.bltdirect.com/lampColourTemperatures.php> > > > > > <http://www.bltdirect.com/lampColourTemperatures.php > <http://www.bltdirect.com/lampColourTemperatures.php>> > > > > > > <http://www.bltdirect.com/lampColourTemperatures.php > <http://www.bltdirect.com/lampColourTemperatures.php> > > > > > <http://www.bltdirect.com/lampColourTemperatures.php > <http://www.bltdirect.com/lampColourTemperatures.php>>>> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > > > > > > > > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>> > > > > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>>> > > > > > > > > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>> > > > > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>>>> > > > (Links > > > > > > > > to any articles referenced > > in > > > > > > > > > > above reply are > > > > > > > > > listed on the right > > > > > > > > > > side, > > alphabetically > > > under > > > > Labels and also > > > > > > > under > > > > > > > > > Archives by Year, > > Month) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -----Original > > > Message----- > > > > > > > > > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > > > > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On > > > > > > > > Behalf Of Amber Berglund > > > > > > > > > > Sent: Tuesday, > > November > > > 10, > > > > 2009 4:22 PM > > > > > > > > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > > > > Subject: Re: > > > [AquaticLife] > > > > Re: > > > > > > > wisteria/lighting > > > > > > > > > previous > > > > > > > > > > question/response > > > > > > > > > > revisited > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Another thing to > > > consider is > > > > one light > > > > > > > company's > > > > > > > > 6500 > > > > > > > > > kelvin rating > > > > > > > > > > may not > > > > > > > > > > be identical to > > another > > > light > > > > bulb from a > > > > > > > > different > > > > > > > > > company that's > > > > > > > > > > rated the > > > > > > > > > > same. The > > important > > > thing to > > > > look at is the > > > > > > > > color > > > > > > > > > chart they show on the > > > > > > > > > > boxes, you want > > more red > > > and > > > > blue light for > > > > > > > your > > > > > > > > > plants, green is not > > > > > > > > > > useful > > > > > > > > > > or harmful as the > > > plants > > > > reflect the light > > > > > > > back > > > > > > > > (makes > > > > > > > > > them appear more > > > > > > > > > > green but does > > nothing > > > else > > > > for them). The > > > > > > > > kelvin > > > > > > > > > rating is based on our > > > > > > > > > > eyes and how they > > > perceive > > > > color, so each > > > > > > > > company > > > > > > > > > doesn't have to be > > > > > > > > > > identical, perhaps > > some > > > day > > > > they will have > > > > > > > a > > > > > > > > universal > > > > > > > > > way to measure > > > > > > > > > > light > > > > > > > > > > spectrums on bulbs > > that > > > is > > > > much less > > > > > > > confusing. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Amber > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Lenny V. aka > > GoldLenny > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > OK. So you > > have a > > > total > > > > of 80 watts > > > > > > > right > > > > > > > > now, > > > > > > > > > which is just over 1 > > > > > > > > > > > WPG, which > > means > > > you > > > > only have enough > > > > > > > > lighting > > > > > > > > > for low-light, easy to > > > > > > > > > > > grow plants. > > See my > > > blog > > > > article > > > > > > > "Planted > > > > > > > > Tank: > > > > > > > > > So You Want A Planted > > > > > > > > > > > Tank" for > > links to > > > lists > > > > of low-light, > > > > > > > easy > > > > > > > > to > > > > > > > > > grow plants that will > > > > > > > > > > > do OK in your > > tank. > > > You > > > > should replace > > > > > > > > those > > > > > > > > > tubes at least > > yearly... > > > > > > > > > > > although some > > say > > > every > > > > six months. As > > > > > > > far > > > > > > > > as I > > > > > > > > > know, a 40W bulb is > > > > > > > > > > > the highest > > wattage > > > made > > > > for this type > > > > > > > of > > > > > > > > > bulb/fixture right now > > but > > > > > > > > > > > you can > > increase > > > your > <br/><br/>(Message over 64 KB, truncated)

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 44478	From: bill 1433	Date: 11/12/2009
Subject: Re: wisteria/lighting previous question/response revisited

Hi Amber, No offense but your getting in the game at the 4th quarter! We got Len on the how's, when's and we are currently working on the Watt's--------------sorry I couldn't help that one. Back it up just a bit and check the back and fourths between us in the last two hours. Oh, sorry, you refered to the MTS? Oh ya, been there, done that back in 197_. Simple reply on that one? I can't cook and hate it when I try! Wife said one more time around with that and _ _ _. I'm sure you get the picture? Bill --- On Thu, 11/12/09, Amber Berglund <arberglund@...> wrote: > From: Amber Berglund <arberglund@...> > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: wisteria/lighting previous question/response revisited > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Date: Thursday, November 12, 2009, 9:36 PM > Perhaps you should ask what light > fixture he got? > He said it's 1/2 inch in diameter, which makes it a T-4 for > sure, but > I'm not sure where he got the wattage from, perhaps writing > on the bulb. > > Amber > > Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > > > > Can you show me a link to a T-4, 17W bulb? I haven't > found a single one in > > all the reading that I've been doing. Remind me how > long your bulbs are > > again? I scrolled down looking and didn't see an exact > answer. In looking > > at your link to DFS about your fixture, I see that for > the 29G/20G, > > it's 30" > > long with the 24" bulbs but I wanted to be sure since > every site I look at > > for T-4's, they do not come in 17W or 24" length so > I'm still thinking > > something is wrong with your calculations or the > reading of the > > specs/calcs > > that you do have. > > > > Here are three different sites with their lists of T-4 > bulbs and as > > you can > > see, there are NO 17W bulbs and no 24" bulbs. > > > > http://www.lightbulbsdirect.com/page/001/CTGY/T4 > > <http://www.lightbulbsdirect.com/page/001/CTGY/T4> > > http://www.buylighting.com/T4-Fluorescent-s/102.htm > > <http://www.buylighting.com/T4-Fluorescent-s/102.htm> > > http://www.servicelighting.com/T4-Straight-Linear-Fluorescent-Light-Bulbs > > > <http://www.servicelighting.com/T4-Straight-Linear-Fluorescent-Light-Bulbs> > > > > The closest that T-4's come are 20.5" or 22-5/16" with > only one type/brand > > having the 22-5/16" bulb as a specialty bulb and all > of the other > > T-4's are > > 20.5" and then jump up to 33 7/8" or 33.9" depending > on the site. > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are > listed on the right > > side, alphabetically under Labels and also under > Archives by Year, Month) > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On > > Behalf Of bill 1433 > > Sent: Thursday, November 12, 2009 3:27 PM > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: wisteria/lighting > previous > > question/response > > revisited > > > > Hi Len, > > > > Like I said, they are a 1/2" but so far all I can find > around here > > are "cool white" and "warm light" bulbs. > > > > Bill > > > > --- On Thu, 11/12/09, Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@... > > > <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com>> wrote: > > > > > From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@... > > > <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com>> > > > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: wisteria/lighting > previous > > question/response revisited > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > Date: Thursday, November 12, 2009, 3:48 PM > > > Bulb diameter is easy. Take the > > > bulb and place it over a ruler/tape > > > measurer and look straight down on it. It should > be > > > easy to discern between > > > 1/2" (T-4) and 1" (T-8) and the T-5 (5/8") uses > a > > > completely different > > > single pin on each end so that would eliminate > that > > > bulb. Or better yet.. > > > take your bulb to the WalMart and compare apples > to apples > > > and you'll then > > > know exactly what you have and also be able to > see what > > > your local WalMart > > > offers as far as better bulbs. You can probably > get > > > much more lighting with > > > a new $5.00 to $10.00 bulb. > > > > > > Then Santa can still bring you the bigger tank > and > > > accessories and your > > > other tanks will also be far more functional in > case you > > > choose to sell them > > > or just have more tanks. As far as selling your > > > unused stuff, > > > CraigsList.org is free and you can renew the ad > every week > > > until you find > > > the right buyer who is willing to pay the best > price you > > > can get. > > > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > (Links to any articles referenced in above reply > are listed > > > on the right > > > side, alphabetically under Labels and also under > Archives > > > by Year, Month) > > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] > > > On > > > Behalf Of bill 1433 > > > Sent: Thursday, November 12, 2009 2:27 PM > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: wisteria/lighting > previous > > > question/response > > > revisited > > > > > > Bulb Diameter Len, and now you see my problem. I > > > haven't found any either. > > > Also reading and studying all that you have sent > me so far > > > I come away from > > > all of this with one single thought, is it worth > it? > > > > > > > > > With all this being said and it so close to the > time for a > > > visit from > > > "Santa", I'm wondering if I should not put all > you have > > > taught me to better > > > use by just getting something like a standard > 55-gallon > > > tank! These lights > > > do cost a bit but there is not a huge different > between > > > size vs. cost from a > > > 29 to a 55. Then to is the issue of what to do > with > > > the plastic covers I > > > already have should I go to the all glass > covers. > > > > > > Sell them, sure but to whom? Remember, I'm the > guy > > > that has a hard time > > > just trying to find a place to buy fish around > here, there > > > just aren't that > > > many places or people. No matter what I do, I > promise > > > to keep you posted. > > > > > > Thanks for all you've taught and helped me with, > > > > > > Bill > > > > > > > > > --- On Thu, 11/12/09, Lenny V. aka GoldLenny > <GoldLenny@... > > > <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com>> > > > wrote: > > > > > > > From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@... > > > <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com>> > > > > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: > wisteria/lighting > > > previous > > > question/response revisited > > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > Date: Thursday, November 12, 2009, 2:42 PM > > > > Once again Bill.... you need to get > > > > away from the "Watts" mindset. It's > > > > just not applicable with the wide array of > bulbs > > > available > > > > nowadays. That > > > > link goes to a CFL light strip and 65 watts > of CFL > > > lighting > > > > is a LOT, LOT, > > > > LOT (3 LOTS) more lighting than 65 watts of > an > > > incandescent > > > > bulb and a LOT, > > > > LOT (2 LOTS) more lighting than a 65W > normal > > > fluorescent > > > > bulb. This would > > > > probably increase your lighting by 10X's > over what you > > > have > > > > now. If you > > > > just went with 20W (range) CFL's, you'd get > 2-3X's > > > more > > > > light than you > > > > currently have. > > > > > > > > You still need to do some more research on > your > > > current > > > > bulbs to find out > > > > the specs on them. Without knowing your > current > > > > specs, it's difficult to > > > > know how much more lighting you might > want/need. > > > > > > > > Since you got your fixture and bulbs from > DFS, I just > > > did a > > > > search of '17 > > > > watt fluorescent' and four bulbs came up.. > one was a > > > CFL so > > > > that wasn't it > > > > and the other three are below BUT none of > them are > > > T-4's... > > > > in fact, so far, > > > > I have not been able to find a T-4, 17W > bulb > > > > anywhere. What are you > > > > measuring to come up with the 1/2" figure? > Bulb > > > > diameter, pin separation or > > > > other??? > > > > > > > > http://www.drsfostersmith.com/product/prod_display.cfm?pcatid=3787 > > > <http://www.drsfostersmith.com/product/prod_display.cfm?pcatid=3787> > > > > (24", > > > > T-8, 5500K, nothing for lumens) > > > > > > > > http://www.drsfostersmith.com/product/prod_display.cfm?pcatid=4491 > > > <http://www.drsfostersmith.com/product/prod_display.cfm?pcatid=4491> > > > > (24", > > > > T-8, Actinic 420nm, nothing for lumens) > > > > > > > > http://www.drsfostersmith.com/product/prod_display.cfm?pcatid=4489 > > > <http://www.drsfostersmith.com/product/prod_display.cfm?pcatid=4489> > > > > (24", > > > > T-8, 6500K, nothing for lumens) > > > > > > > > You need to take your bulb out and go to a > local > > > lighting > > > > store (department) > > > > or even the Walmart and see if they can give > you more > > > info > > > > on it or at least > > > > you might find identical sized bulbs that do > have > > > specs on > > > > them so you can > > > > be more informed about what you have. > > > > > > > > While I was at the DFS site, and since you > previously > > > > mentioned that you > > > > have an All-Glass hood that came with the > one bulb > > > light > > > > strip, I did a > > > > search on DFS for 'All-Glass light' and > found this > > > link for > > > > the only single > > > > bulb light strip that All-Glass has on DFS' > site. > > > > > > > > http://www.drsfostersmith.com/product/prod_display.cfm?pcatid=3793 > > > <http://www.drsfostersmith.com/product/prod_display.cfm?pcatid=3793> > > > > > > > > It comes in 16" or 20" lengths. There's a > link to > > > > "View compatible Bulbs" > > > > in the Description tab, which brings up a > page of > > > bulbs and > > > > ALL of the ones > > > > compatible for the 20" strip are T-8 bulbs. > There > > > are > > > > a couple of dozen > > > > bulbs listed so I didn't go through them > and > > > unfortunately, > > > > they do NOT list > > > > the wattage on that list so I wasn't able to > find any > > > 17W > > > > bulbs without > > > > checking a bunch of links. Since it was an > > > All-Glass > > > > fixture, I did click > > > > on the first All-Glass brand bulb which > brought up > > > this > > > > page... > > > > > > > > > > http://www.drsfostersmith.com/product/prod_display.cfm?pcatid=12850 > > > <http://www.drsfostersmith.com/product/prod_display.cfm?pcatid=12850> > > > > > > > > And you will see that there is either an > 18", 15W bulb > > > or a > > > > 24", 17W bulb, > > > > as well as others... and these are the 8000K > bulbs > > > which > > > > were listed in the > > > > description on the website link that you > posted > > > earlier > > > > BUT.. these are ALL > > > > T-8 bulbs, not T-4's so we're back to that > spec issue > > > > again. This page does > > > > call them 8000K Daylight, Full Spectrum > bulbs so maybe > > > they > > > > are OK but I > > > > wish that the DFS site would list lumens > since that is > > > a > > > > critical, > > > > need-to-know piece of information that is > missing. > > > As > > > > seen in my previous > > > > posts, the same sized bulbs can have a lumen > output > > > that is > > > > 50% to 100% > > > > higher than a comparable bulb of the same > size... and > > > that > > > > makes a HUGE > > > > difference in lighting. > > > > > > > > Once again, take the bulb to your WalMart > and compare > > > > apples to apples and > > > > find out exactly what size bulb you have and > while > > > there, > > > > look at other > > > > identical sized bulbs and look for the > highest lumens > > > in > > > > the 5000K to 6500K > > > > range, buy one and bring it home and see if > it's a > > > LOT > > > > brighter than what > > > > you now have. If so, that might do the > trick. > > > > > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > > (Links to any articles referenced in above > reply are > > > listed > > > > on the right > > > > side, alphabetically under Labels and also > under > > > Archives > > > > by Year, Month) > > > > > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] > > > > On > > > > Behalf Of bill 1433 > > > > Sent: Thursday, November 12, 2009 12:12 PM > > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: > wisteria/lighting > > > previous > > > > question/response > > > > revisited > > > > > > > > Hi Amber, > > > > > > > > The links Len provided are very close BUT > it's the > > > ends of > > > > the tube or pins > > > > that worry me. They are very close but > "how"? > > > > > > > > Meaning this buying the tube, ok by mail? > Now what > > > if > > > > it doesn't work? > > > > Rreturn a $10.00 tube the postage would cost > more. > > > > I'm trying to work > > > > backward now from Len's link, and get a > manufacture so > > > I > > > > can buy around > > > > here. Also I'm getting made enough now to > scrape > > > the > > > > whole thing and just > > > > get a new All-Glass cover then maybe one of > these: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > http://www.drsfostersmith.com/product/prod_display.cfm?c=3578+3733+9654+9871 > > > <http://www.drsfostersmith.com/product/prod_display.cfm?c=3578+3733+9654+9871> > > > > &pcatid=9871 > > > > > > > > This link is not pointing to the exact > Coralife > > > product I > > > > want at Doctors > > > > its # apn-16981, if you have their catalog > but I can't > > > make > > > > it come up on > > > > search at their site. It is a single rated > at 65 > > > > watts and is 24". > > > > > > > > Bill > > > > --- On Thu, 11/12/09, Amber Berglund <arberglund@... > > > <mailto:arberglund%40gmail.com>> > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > From: Amber Berglund <arberglund@... > > > <mailto:arberglund%40gmail.com>> > > > > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: > wisteria/lighting > > > > previous > > > > question/response revisited > > > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > Date: Thursday, November 12, 2009, > 12:59 PM > > > > > Bill does have T-4's if I remember > > > > > correctly, maybe one of those 20watt > > > > > bulbs will work for him and provide > more lumens > > > than > > > > his > > > > > current bulbs do. > > > > > Did you check those links out Bill? ;) > > > > > > > > > > Amber > > > > > > > > > > Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > Just because a fixture currently > has a T-8 > > > or > > > > T-10, > > > > > does not mean it > > > > > > cannot > > > > > > use a T-12, and vice versa. They > are all > > > medium > > > > bi-pin > > > > > bulbs, meaning they > > > > > > all will fit and work UNLESS the > reflector > > > is so > > > > tight > > > > > that a T-12 cannot > > > > > > fit inside the fixture but I > haven't seen > > > this as > > > > a > > > > > problem in the past. > > > > > > Usually, going with a T-8 or T-10, > instead > > > of a > > > > T-12 > > > > > will give more lumens > > > > > > but in the case of this particular > sized > > > bulb, > > > > the > > > > > T-12 may be the better > > > > > > option. Of course, we still need > more > > > details on > > > > > Bill's exact bulb. We > > > > > > still do not know anything except > that it's > > > 17 > > > > > watts... nothing about > > > > > > lumens, K rating or anything else > for > > > comparison > > > > > purposes. As Johnny 5 > > > > > > once > > > > > > said... "Need more input!" (I have > no clue > > > why > > > > that > > > > > OLD movie line popped > > > > > > into my head and I can't blame it > on drugs > > > since > > > > I > > > > > didn't/don't do them... > > > > > > and as far as I know, beer doesn't > cause > > > acid > > > > > flashbacks. LOL > > > > > > http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Short_Circuit > > <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Short_Circuit> > > > > > > <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Short_Circuit > > <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Short_Circuit>>) > > > > > > > > > > > > Now... thinking back a little. > Bill may > > > have > > > > T-4's and > > > > > if he does, those > > > > > > use the miniature bi-pin base and > the above > > > > larger > > > > > T-#'s with medium > > > > > > bi-pin > > > > > > base would not work. If this is > the case, > > > there > > > > are > > > > > other options > > > > > > listed on > > > > > > this page... > > > > > > > > > > > > http://www.servicelighting.com/T4-Straight-Linear-Fluorescent-Light-Bulbs > > > <http://www.servicelighting.com/T4-Straight-Linear-Fluorescent-Light-Bulbs> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > <http://www.servicelighting.com/T4-Straight-Linear-Fluorescent-Light-Bulbs > > > <http://www.servicelighting.com/T4-Straight-Linear-Fluorescent-Light-Bulbs>> > > > > > > including this 20W, 6400K, 1340 > Lumens bulb > > > - > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > http://www.servicelighting.com/Bulbrite-85220-F20T4-64K-F20T4-D-T4-Straight- > > > <http://www.servicelighting.com/Bulbrite-85220-F20T4-64K-F20T4-D-T4-Straight-> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > <http://www.servicelighting.com/Bulbrite-85220-F20T4-64K-F20T4-D-T4-Straight > > > <http://www.servicelighting.com/Bulbrite-85220-F20T4-64K-F20T4-D-T4-Straight> > > > > -> > > > > > > Linear-Fluorescent-Light-Bulb, > which sounds > > > like > > > > a > > > > > pretty good bulb > > > > > > from the > > > > > > specs and actually provides more > lumens than > > > any > > > > of > > > > > the T-12's previously > > > > > > listed. > > > > > > > > > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > > > > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>> > > > > > > (Links to any articles referenced > in above > > > reply > > > > are > > > > > listed on the right > > > > > > side, alphabetically under Labels > and also > > > under > > > > > Archives by Year, Month) > > > > > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > > > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > > > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On > > > > > > Behalf Of Amber Berglund > > > > > > Sent: Thursday, November 12, 2009 > 10:29 AM > > > > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: > > > wisteria/lighting > > > > > previous > > > > > > question/response > > > > > > revisited > > > > > > > > > > > > Bill has smaller bulbs, I think > they are not > > > easy > > > > to > > > > > find in a higher > > > > > > wattage output, which is what he > was looking > > > for > > > > a few > > > > > months back. > > > > > > > > > > > > Amber > > > > > > > > > > > > Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I don't know what you mean by > this. > > > Please > > > > > elaborate. What size tube? > > > > > > > I posted about several > different bulbs > > > but > > > > all > > > > > were T-12's, which is > > > > > > > one of the most common > sizes. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > > > > > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>> > > > > > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>>> > > > > > > (Links to any articles referenced > in > > > > > > > above reply are listed on the > right > > > side, > > > > > alphabetically under Labels > > > > > > > and also under Archives by > Year, > > > Month) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > > > > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On > > > > > Behalf Of bill 1433 > > > > > > > Sent: Thursday, November 12, > 2009 8:59 > > > AM > > > > > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] > Re: > > > > wisteria/lighting > > > > > previous > > > > > > > question/response revisited > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Yes Len, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > But its finding that size > tube with > > > more of > > > > > anything that's the problem. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Bill > > > > > > > > > > > > > > --- On Wed, 11/11/09, Lenny > V. aka > > > > GoldLenny > > > > > <GoldLenny@... > <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com> > > > > > > > > > > > > <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com> > > > > > > > > > > <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com>> > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > From: Lenny V. aka > GoldLenny > > > <GoldLenny@... > <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com> > > > > > > > > > > > > <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com> > > > > > > > > > > <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com>> > > > > > > > > Subject: RE: > [AquaticLife] Re: > > > > > wisteria/lighting previous > > > > > > > > question/response > revisited > > > > > > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > > Date: Wednesday, > November 11, > > > 2009, > > > > 5:22 PM > > > > > Well, if you only have > > > > > > > > 17W, then you could > definitely do > > > > better > > > > > with the 20W, higher lumen, > > > > > > > > better K rating bulbs > that I > > > > mentioned. > > > > > Considering the lumen > > > > > > > > ratings of fluorescent > bulbs I've > > > > looked at, > > > > > your 17W bulbs might > > > > > > > > only have 500-700 lumens > where the > > > BEST > > > > 20W > > > > > bulb (below) has > > > > > > > > 1075 lumens so you > > > > > > > > could possibly increase > your > > > lighting > > > > by 50% > > > > > to 100% just by > > > > > > > > changing to that bulb. > At least, > > > with > > > > that > > > > > bulb, you'll be in the > > > > > > > > low-light range for > plants on the > > > 20G > > > > but > > > > > the 29G will need some work. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Of course, you should > find out > > > what > > > > the > > > > > lumens and K ratings are on > > > > > > > > the bulbs you have so > you'll know > > > if > > > > you are > > > > > getting a small jump or > > > > > > > > a BIG jump in lighting > just by > > > changing > > > > your > > > > > bulbs. Check your local > > > > > > > > WalMart for bulbs. My > nearby > > > WalMart > > > > > SuperCenter has a really big > > > > > > > > assortment of > fluorescent tubes > > > and > > > > they > > > > > were cheaper than the Home > > > > > > > > Depot. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Something else I'm > thinking about > > > for > > > > you is > > > > > going with 18" > > > > > > > > light-sticks on > > > > > > > > each end of your 29G > tank or front > > > or > > > > back > > > > > (back would hide it best > > > > > > > > but you decide your > best > > > aesthetics) > > > > and > > > > > you'd have to make a DIY > > > > > > > > reflector for it (white > poster > > > board > > > > and > > > > > scotch tape would work) and > > > > > > > > that would get more > lighting down > > > to > > > > the > > > > > bottom level plants in the > > > > > > > > 29G. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > > > > > > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>> > > > > > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>>> > > > > > > (Links to any articles > > > > > > > > referenced in above > reply are > > > listed on > > > > the > > > > > right side, > > > > > > > > alphabetically under > Labels and > > > also > > > > under > > > > > Archives by Year, Month) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -----Original > Message----- > > > > > > > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] > > > > > > > > On > > > > > > > > Behalf Of bill 1433 > > > > > > > > Sent: Wednesday, > November 11, 2009 > > > 3:42 > > > > PM > > > > > > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > > Subject: RE: > [AquaticLife] Re: > > > > > wisteria/lighting previous > > > > > > > > question/response > revisited > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > It is what it is type of > thing > > > Len. > > > > Site > > > > > says one thing but stamped > > > > > > > > or printed right on the > tube is at > > > 17 > > > > > watts. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Bill > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > --- On Wed, 11/11/09, > Lenny V. > > > aka > > > > GoldLenny > > > > > <GoldLenny@... > <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com> > > > > > > > > > > > > <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com> > > > > > > > > > > <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com>> > > > > > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > From: Lenny V. aka > GoldLenny > > > > <GoldLenny@... > <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com> > > > > > > > > > > > > <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com> > > > > > > > > > > <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com>> > > > > > > > > > Subject: RE: > [AquaticLife] > > > Re: > > > > > wisteria/lighting > > > > > > > > previous > > > > > > > > > question/response > revisited > > > > > > > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > > > Date: Wednesday, > November > > > 11, > > > > 2009, > > > > > 2:16 PM The > > > > > > > > problem might be this > > > > > > > > > statement in the > > > description... > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > "... Hoods include > 8000ºK > > > > bulb... > > > > > ...20W, 24"..." > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > That's getting into > the > > > higher > > > > > green/blue Kelvin > > > > > > > > range... > > > > > > > > > closer to the > > > > > > > > > 10,000K actinic > type bulbs... > > > than > > > > the > > > > > 5000K to 6500K > > > > > > > > "Daylight" bulbs > > > > > > > > > that provide full > spectrum > > > > lighting. > > > > > It's also only > > > > > > > > a 20W bulb > > > > > > > > > (according to the > DFS site, > > > > although > > > > > you stated it was > > > > > > > > only 17W so > > > > > > > > > double check this) > so it's > > > only > > > > 1WPG on > > > > > the 20G and > > > > > > > > only 0.69WPG on > > > > > > > > > the 29G. Of course, > if the > > > bulb > > > > puts > > > > > out a LOT more > > > > > > > > lumens (you would > > > > > > > > > have to do more > checking up > > > on the > > > > bulb > > > > > to find this), > > > > > > > > that would help > > > > > > > > > a little but not > much. I > > > think you > > > > need > > > > > at least > > > > > > > > 1WPG to have success > > > > > > > > > with low-light > plants, > > > although > > > > > floating plants like > > > > > > > > Anacharis, > > > > > > > > > Hornwort, Duckweed, > etc., > > > would be > > > > up > > > > > close to the > > > > > > > > light and benefit > > > > > > > > > from CO2 from the > air and > > > would do > > > > OK > > > > > with your > > > > > > > > lighting... but then > > > > > > > > > they would also > block out > > > the > > > > lighting > > > > > to the rest of > > > > > > > > the tank. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I don't see a lot > of options, > > > as > > > > far as > > > > > T-8 bulbs are > > > > > > > > concerned for > > > > > > > > > this size fixture > but I see a > > > few > > > > > different T-12's... > > > > > > > > such as... > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > (My rating is: GOOD > - but > > > see > > > > BETTER > > > > > and BEST options > > > > > > > > below... at > > > > > > > > > least as far as the > bulbs on > > > this > > > > site > > > > > are concerned) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > http://www.servicelighting.com/Sylvania-22119-F20T12-DSGN50-T12-Straig > > > <http://www.servicelighting.com/Sylvania-22119-F20T12-DSGN50-T12-Straig> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > <http://www.servicelighting.com/Sylvania-22119-F20T12-DSGN50-T12-Straig > > > <http://www.servicelighting.com/Sylvania-22119-F20T12-DSGN50-T12-Straig>> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > <http://www.servicelighting.com/Sylvania-22119-F20T12-DSGN50-T12-Strai > > > <http://www.servicelighting.com/Sylvania-22119-F20T12-DSGN50-T12-Strai> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > <http://www.servicelighting.com/Sylvania-22119-F20T12-DSGN50-T12-Strai > > > <http://www.servicelighting.com/Sylvania-22119-F20T12-DSGN50-T12-Strai>> > > > > > > > g> > > > > > > > > > ht-Lin > > > > > > > > > > ear-Fluorescent-Light-Bulb > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Light Output: 880 > lumens > > > > > > > > > Refers to the > literal measure > > > of > > > > the > > > > > light-output of a > > > > > > > > particular > > > > > > > > > light bulb, > measured in the > > > number > > > > of > > > > > lumens. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Energy Used: 20 > watts > > > > > > > > > "Watts" is the term > applied > > > to > > > > the > > > > > amount of energy > > > > > > > > required and used > > > > > > > > > by a particular > light bulb. > > > It is > > > > an > > > > > international > > > > > > > > system unit of > > > > > > > > > power equal to one > joule per > > > > second. > > > > > Contrary to > > > > > > > > popular belief, the > > > > > > > > > wattage of a bulb > does not > > > > directly > > > > > measure the > > > > > > > > brightness; the > > > > > > > > > "lumens" of a light > is what > > > > defines the > > > > > actual light > > > > > > > > output. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Average Lifetime: > 9,000 > > > hours > > > > > > > > > This refers to an > average > > > > lifetime > > > > > rating based on > > > > > > > > large quantities in > > > > > > > > > test groups. This > testing > > > takes > > > > into > > > > > account usage of > > > > > > > > 3 hours per > > > > > > > > > start for > fluorescent lamps > > > and > > > > 10 > > > > > hours per start for > > > > > > > > HID lamps. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Bulb Type: T12 > > > > > > > > > The "Bulb Type" is > typically > > > a > > > > > combination of the > > > > > > > > style of bulb as > > > > > > > > > well as the width > of the > > > bulb. > > > > Usually, > > > > > the first > > > > > > > > couple letters will > > > > > > > > > indicate the type; > "G" would > > > > indicate > > > > > "Globe", "PAR" > > > > > > > > would indicate > > > > > > > > > "Parabolic > Reflector"... The > > > > numbers > > > > > indicate the > > > > > > > > diameter of the > > > > > > > > > light bulb in > eighths of an > > > inch; > > > > a > > > > > "G40" would be a > > > > > > > > "Globe" style > > > > > > > > > that is "5 inches" > in > > > diameter. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Base Type: Medium > Bi-Pin > > > > > > > > > The "Base" of a > light bulb is > > > the > > > > part > > > > > that either > > > > > > > > screws or snaps > > > > > > > > > into a receptacle. > Base Type > > > > > terminology may indicate > > > > > > > > common > > > > > > > > > descriptive words > like > > > "Medium" > > > > or > > > > > "Candelabra", or > > > > > > > > may even contain > > > > > > > > > numeric codes that > signify > > > size > > > > and > > > > > variety, like > > > > > > > > "E26" or "2GX13". > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Color Temperature: > 5,000K > > > > > > > > > Correlated Color > Temperature > > > (CCT) > > > > is a > > > > > specification > > > > > > > > of the color > > > > > > > > > appearance of a > lamp, > > > relating > > > > its > > > > > color to that of a > > > > > > > > reference source > > > > > > > > > heated to a > particular > > > > temperature, > > > > > measured in > > > > > > > > degrees Kelvin (K). It > > > > > > > > > generally measures > the > > > "warmth" > > > > or > > > > > "coolness" of light > > > > > > > > source > > > > > > > > > appearance. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > CRI: 90 > > > > > > > > > CRI refers to the > "Color > > > > Rendering > > > > > Index" of a light > > > > > > > > bulb. > > > > > > > > > CRI measures a > > > > > > > > > light source and > grades its > > > > ability to > > > > > render the > > > > > > > > color of objects > > > > > > > > > "correctly," as > compared with > > > a > > > > > reference source with > > > > > > > > comparable color > > > > > > > > > temperature. 100 is > perfect > > > > rendering. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Length: 24 inches > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > (BETTER - slightly > higher > > > lumens > > > > and > > > > > higher 6500K > > > > > > > > rating) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > http://www.servicelighting.com/Westinghouse-36516-F20T12-FS-T12-Straig > > > <http://www.servicelighting.com/Westinghouse-36516-F20T12-FS-T12-Straig> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > <http://www.servicelighting.com/Westinghouse-36516-F20T12-FS-T12-Straig > > > <http://www.servicelighting.com/Westinghouse-36516-F20T12-FS-T12-Straig>> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > <http://www.servicelighting.com/Westinghouse-36516-F20T12-FS-T12-Strai > > > <http://www.servicelighting.com/Westinghouse-36516-F20T12-FS-T12-Strai> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > <http://www.servicelighting.com/Westinghouse-36516-F20T12-FS-T12-Strai > > > <http://www.servicelighting.com/Westinghouse-36516-F20T12-FS-T12-Strai>> > > > > > > > g> > > > > > > > > > ht-Lin > > > > > > > > > > ear-Fluorescent-Light-Bulb > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Light Output: 900 > lumens > > > > > > > > > Energy Used: 20 > watts > > > > > > > > > Average Lifetime: > 10,000 > > > hours > > > > > > > > > Bulb Type: T12 > > > > > > > > > Base Type: Medium > Bi-Pin > > > > > > > > > Color Temperature: > 6,500K > > > > > > > > > CRI: 90 > > > > > > > > > Length: 24 inches > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > (BEST, of these > three - > > > around > > > > 20% > > > > > higher lumens and > > > > > > > > good 6,500K > > > > > > > > > rating, although it > does have > > > a > > > > lower > > > > > CRI rating.. but > > > > > > > > still > > > > > > > > > passing) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > http://www.servicelighting.com/Sylvania-22083-F20T12-D-T12-Straight-Li > > > <http://www.servicelighting.com/Sylvania-22083-F20T12-D-T12-Straight-Li> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > <http://www.servicelighting.com/Sylvania-22083-F20T12-D-T12-Straight-Li > > > <http://www.servicelighting.com/Sylvania-22083-F20T12-D-T12-Straight-Li>> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > <http://www.servicelighting.com/Sylvania-22083-F20T12-D-T12-Straight-L > > > <http://www.servicelighting.com/Sylvania-22083-F20T12-D-T12-Straight-L> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > <http://www.servicelighting.com/Sylvania-22083-F20T12-D-T12-Straight-L > > > <http://www.servicelighting.com/Sylvania-22083-F20T12-D-T12-Straight-L>> > > > > > > > i> > > > > > > > > > near-F > > > > > > > > > > luorescent-Light-Bulb > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Light Output: 1,075 > lumens > > > > > > > > > Energy Used: 20 > watts > > > > > > > > > Average Lifetime: > 9,000 > > > hours > > > > > > > > > Bulb Type: T12 > > > > > > > > > Base Type: Medium > Bi-Pin > > > > > > > > > Color Temperature: > 6,500K > > > > > > > > > CRI: 76 > > > > > > > > > Length: 24 inches > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Compare the above > three to > > > what is > > > > sold > > > > > as a > > > > > > > > plant/aquarium light by > > > > > > > > > the same company, > which has > > > a > > > > lower > > > > > lumens, MUCH lower > > > > > > > > CRI rating and > > > > > > > > > does not list the K > rating > > > other > > > > than > > > > > to say "Plant" > > > > > > > > which is a > > > > > > > > > subjective rating > established > > > by > > > > the > > > > > manufacturer. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > (WORST) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > http://www.servicelighting.com/Westinghouse-36411-F20T12-PL-T12-Straig > > > <http://www.servicelighting.com/Westinghouse-36411-F20T12-PL-T12-Straig> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > <http://www.servicelighting.com/Westinghouse-36411-F20T12-PL-T12-Straig > > > <http://www.servicelighting.com/Westinghouse-36411-F20T12-PL-T12-Straig>> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > <http://www.servicelighting.com/Westinghouse-36411-F20T12-PL-T12-Strai > > > <http://www.servicelighting.com/Westinghouse-36411-F20T12-PL-T12-Strai> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > <http://www.servicelighting.com/Westinghouse-36411-F20T12-PL-T12-Strai > > > <http://www.servicelighting.com/Westinghouse-36411-F20T12-PL-T12-Strai>> > > > > > > > g> > > > > > > > > > ht-Lin > > > > > > > > > > ear-Fluorescent-Light-Bulb > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Light Output: 700 > lumens > > > (over 30% > > > > less > > > > > lighting > > > > > > > > than the 1,075 > > > > > > > > > lumens bulb > > > > > > > > > above) > > > > > > > > > Energy Used: 20 > watts > > > > > > > > > Average Lifetime: > 10,000 > > > hours > > > > > > > > > Bulb Type: T12 > > > > > > > > > Base Type: Medium > Bi-Pin > > > > > > > > > Color: Plant > > > > > > > > > CRI: 61 > > > > > > > > > Length: 24 inches > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > If any of the above > have > > > much > > > > better > > > > > lumens than your > > > > > > > > current > > > > > > > > > lighting... > > > > > > > > > and they all have > better K > > > > ratings, > > > > > then any of them > > > > > > > > would be better > > > > > > > > > for you... but you > would > > > still be > > > > stuck > > > > > with only 20 > > > > > > > > watts but it's > > > > > > > > > the LUMENS and K > rating that > > > count > > > > more > > > > > than watts. > > > > > > > > You need to find > > > > > > > > > out the lumens on > your bulb. > > > Try > > > > to > > > > > find it on the > > > > > > > > DFS site and let > > > > > > > > > us know. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > You should look at > the > > > > AHSupply.com > > > > > place for a > > > > > > > > retrofit kit so you > > > > > > > > > can use CFL's in > your > > > current > > > > hood. > > > > > That would > > > > > > > > probably be your least > > > > > > > > > expensive option. I > know you > > > don't > > > > like > > > > > electricity > > > > > > > > but I'm sure you > > > > > > > > > know someone that > could do > > > this > > > > for > > > > > you... on the > > > > > > > > cheap... or over a > > > > > > > > > 6-pack. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > > > > > > > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>> > > > > > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>>> > > > > > > (Links to > > > > > > > > any articles > > > > > > > > > referenced in above > reply > > > are > > > > listed on > > > > > the right > > > > > > > > side, alphabetically > > > > > > > > > under Labels and > also under > > > > Archives by > > > > > Year, Month) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -----Original > Message----- > > > > > > > > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > > > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] > > > > > > > > > On > > > > > > > > > Behalf Of bill > 1433 > > > > > > > > > Sent: Wednesday, > November 11, > > > 2009 > > > > 9:33 > > > > > AM > > > > > > > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > > > Subject: RE: > [AquaticLife] > > > Re: > > > > > wisteria/lighting > > > > > > > > previous > > > > > > > > > question/response > > > > > > > > > revisited > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Hi \\Steve// > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > At this point, and > also to > > > refresh > > > > your > > > > > mind, and > > > > > > > > anyone > > > > > > > > > else on the group > > > > > > > > > that may have > interest. This > > > all > > > > got > > > > > started with > > > > > > > > my > > > > > > > > > search for a tube > that > > > > > > > > > would allow me more > light > > > output > > > > from > > > > > an All Glass > > > > > > > > Plastic > > > > > > > > > hood and light. > > > > > > > > > This unit comes > with a "color > > > type > > > > tube > > > > > at 17 watts > > > > > > > > that is > > > > > > > > > only 24 inches > > > > > > > > > long. This is for > a > > > 20/29-gallon > > > > tank. > > > > > I was stupid enough to buy > > > > > > > > > two of them, one > for each > > > tank. > > > > For > > > > > further inspection > > > > > > > > here > > > > > > > > > is the light: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > http://www.drsfostersmith.com/product/prod_display.cfm?pcatid=13447 > > > <http://www.drsfostersmith.com/product/prod_display.cfm?pcatid=13447> > > > > > > > > > > > > > <http://www.drsfostersmith.com/product/prod_display.cfm?pcatid=13447 > > > <http://www.drsfostersmith.com/product/prod_display.cfm?pcatid=13447>> > > > > > > > > > <http://www.drsfostersmith.com/product/prod_display.cfm?pcatid=13447 > > > <http://www.drsfostersmith.com/product/prod_display.cfm?pcatid=13447> > > > > > > > > > > > > > <http://www.drsfostersmith.com/product/prod_display.cfm?pcatid=13447 > > > <http://www.drsfostersmith.com/product/prod_display.cfm?pcatid=13447>>> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > For those that > would like to > > > > aggravate > > > > > themselves > > > > > > > > further, > > > > > > > > > I can also state > > > > > > > > > that these hoods > are very > > > > conducive to > > > > > growing Black Algae! > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Summoning up, I > should have > > > only > > > > > purchased an > > > > > > > > All-Glass > > > > > > > > > cover and then > > > > > > > > > probably a double > tube light > > > of > > > > > sufficient wattage to > > > > > > > > bring > > > > > > > > > me up to the > > > > > > > > > recommended 2 or 3 > watts per > > > > gallon. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Ya live and learn, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Bill > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > --- On Tue, > 11/10/09, Steve > > > Szabo > > > > > <steve@... > <mailto:steve%40familyszabo.com> > > > > > > > > > > > > <mailto:steve%40familyszabo.com> > > > > > > > > > > <mailto:steve%40familyszabo.com>> > > > > > > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > From: Steve > Szabo <steve@... > > > <mailto:steve%40familyszabo.com> > > > > > > > > > > > > <mailto:steve%40familyszabo.com> > > > > > > > > > > <mailto:steve%40familyszabo.com>> > > > > > > > > > > Subject: RE: > > > [AquaticLife] > > > > Re: > > > > > wisteria/lighting > > > > > > > > > previous > > > > > > > > > > > question/response > > > revisited > > > > > > > > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > > > > Date: Tuesday, > November > > > 10, > > > > 2009, > > > > > 11:50 PM Bill, > > > > > > > > you > > > > > > > > > got it right! The > > > > > > > > > > T numbers > represent the > > > > diameter > > > > > of the bulb in > > > > > > > > 1/8" > > > > > > > > > increments. A T4 > > > > > > > > > > is a bulb 1/2" > in > > > diameter, > > > > T5 is > > > > > 5/8", t8 is > > > > > > > > 1" and > > > > > > > > > a t12 is 1 1/2". > > > > > > > > > > As I recall, > the F is > > > the > > > > wattage > > > > > of the bulb. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Lumens, not > usually > > > stated on > > > > the > > > > > bulb is the > > > > > > > > actual > > > > > > > > > amount of light > > > > > > > > > > coming from > the bulb. > > > It > > > > really > > > > > does not have > > > > > > > > anything > > > > > > > > > to do with > > > > > > > > > > watts, though > more watts > > > will > > > > give > > > > > you more > > > > > > > > lumens, > > > > > > > > > but, also the > > > > > > > > > > phosphors used > in the > > > bulb > > > > affect > > > > > the amount of > > > > > > > > lumen > > > > > > > > > output. Lumens > > > > > > > > > > and lux are > often used > > > > > interchangeably, but they > > > > > > > > are > > > > > > > > > really different > > > > > > > > > > measurements. > Lux is > > > the > > > > measure > > > > > of illumination > > > > > > > > over > > > > > > > > > a given area. It > > > > > > > > > > may actually > be more > > > > important to > > > > > aquarists > > > > > > > > raising > > > > > > > > > plants than the > > > > > > > > > > lumen output. > Lux is > > > what is > > > > > measured by a light > > > > > > > > > meter, for anyone > who > > > > > > > > > > happens to > know what > > > they > > > > are--not > > > > > often seen > > > > > > > > with > > > > > > > > > today's cameras > and > > > > > > > > > > > photographers. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Color > temperature is > > > > important. > > > > > Average daylight > > > > > > > > > (except may in > > > > > > > > > > Amber's area > where they > > > have > > > > 6 > > > > > months of > > > > > > > > darkness) has > > > > > > > > > a color > > > > > > > > > > temperature > of > > > 5500-6000. > > > > > > > > > > An overcast > day can have > > > a > > > > color > > > > > temperature of > > > > > > > > 6500. > > > > > > > > > As mentioned > > > > > > > > > > earlier, > plants need > > > light in > > > > two > > > > > color > > > > > > > > spectrums, > > > > > > > > > and, actually they > > > > > > > > > > are rather > narrow spans > > > of > > > > > wavelengths they > > > > > > > > benefit > > > > > > > > > from. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I thought I > had a > > > bookmark > > > > > explaining this, but > > > > > > > > I > > > > > > > > > can't find it > > > > > > > > > > quickly (over > 400K of > > > > bookmarks, > > > > > and things have > > > > > > > > a > > > > > > > > > tendency to get > > > > > > > > > > lost), > however, some > > > > judicial > > > > > Googling will gain > > > > > > > > you > > > > > > > > > the information. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > \\Steve// > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -----Original > > > Message----- > > > > > > > > > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > > > > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] > > > > > > > > > > On > > > > > > > > > > Behalf Of bill > 1433 > > > > > > > > > > Sent: Tuesday, > November > > > 10, > > > > 2009 > > > > > 10:20 PM > > > > > > > > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > > > > Subject: Re: > > > [AquaticLife] > > > > Re: > > > > > wisteria/lighting > > > > > > > > > previous > > > > > > > > > > > question/response > > > revisited > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Yes, Amber > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > It was I, > looking for > > > the > > > > original > > > > > information > > > > > > > > and > > > > > > > > > also looked back > on > > > > > > > > > > \\Steve//'s > post at > > > group to > > > > try > > > > > and find. Ray > > > > > > > > had > > > > > > > > > mentioned all this > > > > > > > > > > the other day > saying > > > that he > > > > > thought the posting > > > > > > > > came > > > > > > > > > from \\Steve//. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I was not > successful in > > > my > > > > search. > > > > > Also, for me > > > > > > > > the > > > > > > > > > most important > > > > > > > > > > part was a > link to a > > > chart > > > > which > > > > > showed you > > > > > > > > exactly, > > > > > > > > > or explained > > > > > > > > > > exactly the > "T" > > > > > > > > > > factor stands > for. For > > > > instance, > > > > > T-4 would be a > > > > > > > > tube > > > > > > > > > that is a half > > > > > > > > > > inch wide, or > close to > > > > > it-----------I think. > > > > > > > > All > > > > > > > > > this is my own > > > > > > > > > > fault. In my > interest > > > to > > > > acquire > > > > > and learn > > > > > > > > about > > > > > > > > > lighting,I went > > > > > > > > > > through and > studied the > > > > applied > > > > > links but being > > > > > > > > > ol'bill, I never > > > > > > > > > > bookmarked > them. > > > > > > > > > > Then to > further > > > > > > > > > > compound the > problem, I > > > > deleted > > > > > the original > > > > > > > > message > > > > > > > > > that it came > > > > > > > > > > from. In > hind-sight you > > > > could > > > > > probably chalk > > > > > > > > this > > > > > > > > > all up to > felonious > > > > > > > > > > stupidity on > my part. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Bill---where > its always > > > a > > > > good day > > > > > if I learn > > > > > > > > > something new! > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > --- On Tue, > 11/10/09, > > > Amber > > > > > Berglund <arberglund@... > <mailto:arberglund%40gmail.com> > > > > > > > > > > > > <mailto:arberglund%40gmail.com> > > > > > > > > > > <mailto:arberglund%40gmail.com>> > > > > > > > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > From: Amber > Berglund > > > <arberglund@... > <mailto:arberglund%40gmail.com> > > > > > > > > > > > > <mailto:arberglund%40gmail.com> > > > > > > > > > > <mailto:arberglund%40gmail.com>> > > > > > > > > > > Subject: Re: > > > [AquaticLife] > > > > Re: > > > > > wisteria/lighting > > > > > > > > > previous > > > > > > > > > > > question/response > > > revisited > > > > > > > > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > > > > Date: Tuesday, > November > > > 10, > > > > 2009, > > > > > 9:30 PM > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I believe it > was Steve > > > who > > > > posted > > > > > a link about > > > > > > > > lumens > > > > > > > > > months back when > > > > > > > > > > (I think it > was maybe > > > Bill > > > > asking) > > > > > about lighting > > > > > > > > for > > > > > > > > > planted > > > > > > > > > > aquariums. > > > > > > > > > > Plants require > 2 > > > different > > > > > spectrums of light to > > > > > > > > > properly produce > > > > > > > > > > either leaves > or flowers > > > (red > > > > is > > > > > more for flower > > > > > > > > > production and > blue > > > > > > > > > > is more for > growth, but > > > for > > > > the > > > > > best growing you > > > > > > > > want > > > > > > > > > a mixture of > > > > > > > > > > BOTH colors). > > > > > > > > > > So in reality > you would > > > want > > > > a > > > > > light that appears > > > > > > > > more > > > > > > > > > brown/reddish > > > > > > > > > > in coloring > and a > > > blue/white > > > > > coloring as well, > > > > > > > > but > > > > > > > > > they now have > bulbs > > > > > > > > > > that have > BOTH > > > spectrums > > > > built in > > > > > (I'm sure they > > > > > > > > don't > > > > > > > > > work as well as > > > > > > > > > > it would to > have 2 > > > different > > > > bulbs > > > > > one mostly red > > > > > > > > and > > > > > > > > > the other mostly > > > > > > > > > > blue on the > color > > > spectrum). > > > > > > > > > > Let me see if > I still > > > have > > > > the > > > > > link bookmarked. > > > > > > > > > > What I was > trying to say > > > is > > > > that > > > > > Kelvin does not > > > > > > > > tell > > > > > > > > > you what color > > > > > > > > > > spectrum the > light > > > REALLY is, > > > > it's > > > > > actually > > > > > > > > measuring > > > > > > > > > it's light > > > > > > > > > > output color > according > > > to how > > > > the > > > > > human eyes > > > > > > > > perceive > > > > > > > > > it. So 6500 > > > > > > > > > > kelvin in > general is > > > what > > > > most > > > > > plants will > > > > > > > > prefer > > > > > > > > > because that is a > > > > > > > > > > mixture of > both red and > > > blue > > > > > spectrums (In MOST > > > > > > > > bulbs) > > > > > > > > > unfortunately > > > > > > > > > > not all light > bulb > > > > manufactures > > > > > have to use the > > > > > > > > exact > > > > > > > > > same chart for > > > > > > > > > > their colors, > so they > > > will > > > > have > > > > > different colors > > > > > > > > than > > > > > > > > > another bulb > > > > > > > > > > that says it's > 6500 > > > Kelvin. > > > > what > > > > > you really need > > > > > > > > to > > > > > > > > > read is the color > > > > > > > > > > chart on the > box, not > > > what > > > > lumens > > > > > it says it is. > > > > > > > > > > (still > searching for > > > link, > > > > LOL). > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > This isn't the > right > > > link but > > > > it > > > > > discusses the > > > > > > > > > kelvin/lumen > problems a > > > > > > > > > > little bit, > still > > > looking for > > > > the > > > > > link that > > > > > > > > showed the > > > > > > > > > charts and what > > > > > > > > > > to look for in > the > > > color > > > > charts. > > > > > > > > > > > > http://www.americanaquariumproducts.com/Aquarium_Lighting.html > > > <http://www.americanaquariumproducts.com/Aquarium_Lighting.html> > > > > > > > > > > > > > <http://www.americanaquariumproducts.com/Aquarium_Lighting.html > > > <http://www.americanaquariumproducts.com/Aquarium_Lighting.html>> > > > > > > > > > <http://www.americanaquariumproducts.com/Aquarium_Lighting.html > > > <http://www.americanaquariumproducts.com/Aquarium_Lighting.html> > > > > > > > > > > > > > <http://www.americanaquariumproducts.com/Aquarium_Lighting.html > > > <http://www.americanaquariumproducts.com/Aquarium_Lighting.html>>> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Will post > again when I > > > find > > > > the > > > > > other link with > > > > > > > > chart > > > > > > > > > examples. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Amber > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Lenny V. aka > GoldLenny > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I think > it would > > > be > > > > false > > > > > advertising or > > > > > > > > > possibly > > > > > > > > > > > mis-advertising (if > > > they > > > > > > > > > > > do not > know any > > > better) > > > > if a > > > > > company lists > > > > > > > > their > > > > > > > > > bulbs > > > > > > > > > > as 6500K and > they > > > > > > > > > > > aren't. > The Kelvin > > > > scale, > > > > > just like Watts > > > > > > > > and > > > > > > > > > Lumens, > > > > > > > > > > are ALL > > > > > > > > > > > universal > and > > > > > > > > > > > > scientifically > > > > measurable > > > > > scales BUT, as I > > > > > > > > > showed > > > > > > > > > > below, not all > 40 watt > > > > > > > > > > > bulbs put > out the > > > same > > > > amount > > > > > of light > > > > > > > > (lumens) > > > > > > > > > or in > > > > > > > > > > the same > color > > > > > > > > > > > spectrum > (Kelvin > > > > rating). All > > > > > 40 watt > > > > > > > > bulbs, > > > > > > > > > whether > > > > > > > > > > incandescent, > > > > > > > > > > > > fluorescent, CFL, > > > LED, > > > > > Halogen, etc.... ALL > > > > > > > > use > > > > > > > > > > only/around 40 > watts of > > > > > > > > > > > > electricity but > > > their > > > > light > > > > > output can vary > > > > > > > > > > dramatically. > This is > > > why > > > > > > > > > > > > fluorescent bulbs > > > are so > > > > much > > > > > more > > > > > > > > efficient > > > > > > > > > than > > > > > > > > > > incandescent > bulbs and > > > > > > > > > > > CFL's are > even > > > more > > > > > efficient... as a 40W > > > > > > > > > fluorescent > > > > > > > > > > bulb puts out > a LOT > > > > > > > > > > > more > light (lumens) > > > than > > > > a 40 > > > > > watt > > > > > > > > incandescent > > > > > > > > > bulb > > > > > > > > > > and a 40W CFL > > > > > > > > > > > puts out > > > > > > > > > > > more > light (lumens) > > > than > > > > a > > > > > 40W fluorescent > > > > > > > > bulb. > > > > > > > > > This > > > > > > > > > > is why the > OLD > > > > > > > > > > > "Watts > > > > > > > > > > > Per > Gallon" rule > > > simply > > > > does > > > > > not work any > > > > > > > > more. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > BUT.. if > three > > > > different > > > > > companies are > > > > > > > > selling > > > > > > > > > > standard T-10 > > > fluorescent > > > > > > > > > > > bulbs > with the > > > same > > > > exact > > > > > rating of 40W, > > > > > > > > 3550 > > > > > > > > > lumens > > > > > > > > > > and 6500K > > > > > > > > > > > rating... > all > > > > > > > > > > > three of > those > > > bulbs > > > > should > > > > > be VERY SIMILAR > > > > > > > > if > > > > > > > > > not > > > > > > > > > > identical in > the > > > > > > > > > > > way they > > > > > > > > > > > appear to > our eyes > > > > (subject > > > > > to our own > > > > > > > > degree of > > > > > > > > > color > > > > > > > > > > blindness, of > > > > > > > > > > > course!) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > In the > past, > > > things > > > > like > > > > > "soft white", > > > > > > > > "warm > > > > > > > > > white", > > > > > > > > > > "daylight", > "plant > > > > > > > > > > > grow", > etc., type > > > terms > > > > were > > > > > used and are > > > > > > > > still > > > > > > > > > used > > > > > > > > > > but those are > just > > > > > > > > > > > simple > words (not > > > > subject to > > > > > a scientific > > > > > > > > scale) > > > > > > > > > to > > > > > > > > > > describe the > Kelvin > > > > > > > > > > > rating > ranges but > > > lumens > > > > are > > > > > just as > > > > > > > > important > > > > > > > > > since a > > > > > > > > > > bulb could > have a > > > > > > > > > > > 6500K > rating with > > > only > > > > 2200 > > > > > lumens where > > > > > > > > another > > > > > > > > > bulb > > > > > > > > > > could have a > 6500K > > > > > > > > > > > rating > and 3550 or > > > 3700 > > > > > lumens and that > > > > > > > > bulb > > > > > > > > > would put > > > > > > > > > > out over 50% > more > > > > > > > > > > > light > (lumens) in > > > the > > > > same > > > > > color spectrum > > > > > > > > > (Kelvin > > > > > > > > > > rating) so it > would be > > > a > > > > > > > > > > > much more > cost > > > effective > > > > bulb > > > > > if it cost > > > > > > > > the > > > > > > > > > same > > > > > > > > > > amount or only > a little > > > > > > > > > > > more. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I'm > slightly > > > confused > > > > about > > > > > the "red and > > > > > > > > blue > > > > > > > > > light > > > > > > > > > > for your > plants" as > > > > > > > > > > > those two > colors > > > are on > > > > > opposite ends of > > > > > > > > the > > > > > > > > > Kelvin > > > > > > > > > > Scale with > reds and > > > > > > > > > > > ambers in > the > > > lower > > > > numbers > > > > > and greens and > > > > > > > > blues > > > > > > > > > in > > > > > > > > > > the higher > numbers. I > > > > > > > > > > > think > this is why > > > you > > > > would > > > > > want a > > > > > > > > mid-range > > > > > > > > > (5000K to > > > > > > > > > > 6500K) bulb > as > > > > > > > > > > > those > > > > > > > > > > > are > generally > > > > considered > > > > > "full spectrum" or > > > > > > > > > "daylight" > > > > > > > > > > bulbs. Here's > a > > > > > > > > > > > color > picture of > > > the > > > > Kelvin > > > > > Scale, > > > > > > > > > > > > > http://www.bltdirect.com/images/colour-temperature.jpg > > > <http://www.bltdirect.com/images/colour-temperature.jpg> > > > > > > > > > > > <http://www.bltdirect.com/images/colour-temperature.jpg > > > <http://www.bltdirect.com/images/colour-temperature.jpg>> > > > > > > > <http://www.bltdirect.com/images/colour-temperature.jpg > > > <http://www.bltdirect.com/images/colour-temperature.jpg> > > > > > > > > > > > <http://www.bltdirect.com/images/colour-temperature.jpg > > > <http://www.bltdirect.com/images/colour-temperature.jpg>>> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > <http://www.bltdirect.com/images/colour-temperature.jpg > > > <http://www.bltdirect.com/images/colour-temperature.jpg> > > > > > > > > > > > <http://www.bltdirect.com/images/colour-temperature.jpg > > > <http://www.bltdirect.com/images/colour-temperature.jpg>> > > > > > > > <http://www.bltdirect.com/images/colour-temperature.jpg > > > <http://www.bltdirect.com/images/colour-temperature.jpg> > > > > > > > > > > > <http://www.bltdirect.com/images/colour-temperature.jpg > > > <http://www.bltdirect.com/images/colour-temperature.jpg>>>> > > > > > > > > > > and you can > > > > > > > > > > > visually > > > > > > > > > > > see that > the 5000K > > > to > > > > 6500K > > > > > range is all > > > > > > > > about > > > > > > > > > the > > > > > > > > > > same "color". > I think > > > > > > > > > > > this is > also why > > > > Actinic > > > > > bulbs are usually > > > > > > > > higher > > > > > > > > > and > > > > > > > > > > closer to the > 10000K > > > > > > > > > > > range and > up... > > > > apparently, > > > > > the Kelvin > > > > > > > > lighting > > > > > > > > > scale > > > > > > > > > > can go up to > 20,000K > > > > > > > > > > > > (according to this > > > > article > > > > > about Reef Tanks > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > http://nh.craigslist.org/for/1423072406.html > > <http://nh.craigslist.org/for/1423072406.html> > > > > > > <http://nh.craigslist.org/for/1423072406.html > > <http://nh.craigslist.org/for/1423072406.html>> > > > > > > > <http://nh.craigslist.org/for/1423072406.html > > <http://nh.craigslist.org/for/1423072406.html> > > > > > > <http://nh.craigslist.org/for/1423072406.html > > <http://nh.craigslist.org/for/1423072406.html>>> > > > > > > > > > > > <http://nh.craigslist.org/for/1423072406.html > > <http://nh.craigslist.org/for/1423072406.html> > > > > > > <http://nh.craigslist.org/for/1423072406.html > > <http://nh.craigslist.org/for/1423072406.html>> > > > > > > > <http://nh.craigslist.org/for/1423072406.html > > <http://nh.craigslist.org/for/1423072406.html> > > > > > > <http://nh.craigslist.org/for/1423072406.html > > <http://nh.craigslist.org/for/1423072406.html>>>> > > > > > on, > > > > > > > > > of > > > > > > > > > > all places, > > > > > > > > > > > > Craigslist). > > > > > > > > > > > Here is > the page > > > that > > > > that > > > > > the above photo > > > > > > > > link > > > > > > > > > came > > > > > > > > > > from and it > has a > > > > > > > > > > > chart > > > > > > > > > > > that also > explains > > > > things a > > > > > little more also > > > ><br/><br/>(Message over 64 KB, truncated)

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 44479	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 11/12/2009
Subject: Re: Question about eating snails

That's why God made spices/seasonings. Almost everything would taste bad if it wasn't seasoned properly. I would imagine crawfish guts and crab guts would taste bad also if not boiled in Cajun spices or marinated in Cajun spices and then fried (for soft shell inverts). MMMMMMMMMM.. getting hungry again. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Amber Berglund Sent: Thursday, November 12, 2009 8:23 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Question about eating snails On applesnail.net it says not to eat the intestines and eggs because they taste bad, so that makes enough sense to me to not eat them ;) LOL Amber Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > > Why don't they eat the rest? > > Down here, with inverts and crustaceans, we eat the whole thing... > with boiled crawfish, we suck the heads, then pinch the tails (or with > soft shell crawfish, we eat the whole thing fried)... we eat raw > oysters in their entirety (innards and all) also when fried... and > nothings better than a fried soft shell crab po-boy, which means we're > eating all of their innards too. MMMMMMMMMM... I could go on and on > but I'm getting hungry now so I'm off to get some lunch. > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> (Links to any articles referenced in > above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels > and also under Archives by Year, Month) > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On Behalf Of Amber Berglund > Sent: Thursday, November 12, 2009 12:03 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Question about eating snails > > Okay back to eating snails (darn people hijacking my thread ;) LOL). > Could it be that it's safer to eat snails even if you use dechlor > because you only eat the foot of the snail and not the intestines, etc? > Just a thought, > Amber > > Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > > > > Are you sure that wasn't a DERF shirt > > http://www.zazzle.com/derf_tshirt-235652671296243847 > <http://www.zazzle.com/derf_tshirt-235652671296243847> > > <http://www.zazzle.com/derf_tshirt-235652671296243847 > <http://www.zazzle.com/derf_tshirt-235652671296243847>> and you were > > just looking in the mirror? This one even comes with your picture on > > it. ;-) > > > > Kind of like them people who have REKCUS written on their foreheads. > > ;-) > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>> > (Links to any articles referenced in > > above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under > > Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On Behalf Of Steve Szabo > > Sent: Tuesday, November 10, 2009 10:08 PM > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Question about eating snails > > > > Amber, > > > > No, I don't have to. Some of the shirts come with names already on them. > > That one happened to be Fred. He had his name embroidered right over > > his left pocket. They are hard to come by. I've only seen them at > Sallie's. > > > > \\Steve// > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On Behalf Of Amber Berglund > > Sent: Tuesday, November 10, 2009 9:20 PM > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Question about eating snails > > > > Actually no, but that one looks good ;) LOL Wait... you name your > shirts? > > What's your favorite shirt named right now? LOL > > > > Amber > > > > Steve Szabo wrote: > > > > > > Ws this the recipe? > > > > > > ESCARGOTS A LA FETTUCCINI > > > > > > 24 (7 1/2 oz. can) very lg. sized escargots, drained > > > 4 tbsp. butter > > > 1-2 garlic cloves, minced > > > 1/2 pt. heavy cream > > > 1/2 c. grated Parmesan cheese > > > 1 pkg. frozen peas > > > Salt and pepper > > > 1 lb. fettuccini > > > > > > Drain escargots, melt butter in heavy saucepan and sauté escargot > > > and garlic for 3 minutes. Pour in heavy cream and simmer until > > > mixture thickens slightly. Add grated cheese, peas and seasonings. > > > Cook a few minutes longer until escargots and sauce are hot. Do > > > not > overcook. > > > > > > While sauce is cooking place fettuccini in a pot of boiling > > > (salted) water. > > > Cook 3-4 minutes. Drain pasta and mix with escargots sauce until > > > pasta is well coated. > > > > > > I once had a shirt named Fred. > > > > > > \\Steve// > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On Behalf Of Amber > > > Berglund > > > Sent: Tuesday, November 10, 2009 5:17 PM > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Question about eating snails > > > > > > Actually if you look on applesnail.net they list recipe's for > > > eating your snails, LOL. > > > And do dead snails even have guts? LOL. > > > There are 3 drivers (for now, soon to be 4 hopefully), so they'll > > > have to narrow it down by names, so I'll have to wear a name tag > > > that says, "Hello my name is Fred" or something, LOL. > > > > > > Amber > > > > > > Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > > > > > > > > Ummmm.. you (or rather your friend) shouldn't do this. Most > > > > dechlor products EXPLICITLY advise against eating ornamental > > > > fish (and probably critters too) that are kept in waters treated > > > > with a dechlor product. I think the chemicals used in dechlors > > > > cause health problems, although I doubt that five snails would > > > > matter. I think it's more for fish farms that > > > might > > > > think about using Sodium Thiosulphate as their dechlor if they > > > > did not have a natural water source for the fish stock ponds. > > > > > > > > As far as the different taste, could it be like other meats... > > > chicken for > > > > example, where the dark meat is much different in taste and > > > > texture than white meat? > > > > > > > > Also, for your health, please do not post this on the > > > > Applesnail.net forums.. you know them folks are zealous about > > > > their snails. They might hunt you down and throw dead snail guts > > > > on you. LOL They might even > > > form a > > > > new radical group called PeTS... People for the Ethical > > > > Treatment of Snails. > > > > LOL And if they can't find you, they might go after every other > > > > delivery truck on your island. BTW... are you the only driver or > > > > is Ketchikan big enough for two FedEx trucks? LOL > > > > > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>> > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>>> > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>> > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>>>> > > > > (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on > > > > the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under > > > > Archives by Year, > > > Month) > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On Behalf Of Amber > > > > Berglund > > > > Sent: Tuesday, November 10, 2009 10:59 AM > > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > Subject: [AquaticLife] Question about eating snails > > > > > > > > Okay so a friend of mine was inquiring about my mystery snails > > > > for > > > eating > > > > purposes. Since I have a mass quantity of the happy little guys > > > > and > > > gals I > > > > figured I would give him all my large snails that are fully grown. > > > > He ended up with 5 and cooked them up as spaghetti. Now my > > > > question is this; why would the dark footed (purple) mystery > > > > snails taste much saltier > > > than the > > > > ones with white feet? > > > > > > > > Sorry to offend anyone at the idea of eating snails, I've had to > > > > do a survival trip in my lifetime and had to survive off of > > > > limpets, so I'm sure they taste similar to limpets when cooked > > > > up, so it doesn't really > > > offend > > > > me, LOL. > > > > Not to mention the little guys are threatening to breed me out > > > > of house and home ;) LOL. > > > > > > > > Amber > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ------------------------------------ > > > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, > Thank You. > > ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , > > .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT > > that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the > > original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: > > old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , > > .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. > > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. > > > > If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of > > unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by clicking on > > "Edit My Membership" on the home page. > > > > Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:aquaticlife-digest%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:aquaticlife-digest%40yahoogroups.com> to receive the digest, > > which includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email > > > > Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:aquaticlife-nomail%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:aquaticlife-nomail%40yahoogroups.com> for the No E-Mail > > option where you will still be able to read messages on the group > > and post replies. > > > > Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:aquaticlife-normal%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:aquaticlife-normal%40yahoogroups.com> to receive individual > > e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > ------------------------------------ > > > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, > Thank You. > > ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , > > .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT > > that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the > > original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: > > old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , > > .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. > > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. > > > > If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of > > unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by clicking on > > "Edit My Membership" on the home page. > > > > Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:aquaticlife-digest%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:aquaticlife-digest%40yahoogroups.com> to receive the digest, > > which includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email > > > > Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:aquaticlife-nomail%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:aquaticlife-nomail%40yahoogroups.com> for the No E-Mail > > option where you will still be able to read messages on the group > > and post replies. > > > > Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:aquaticlife-normal%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:aquaticlife-normal%40yahoogroups.com> to receive individual > > e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > ------------------------------------ > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. > ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , > .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT > that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the > original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: > old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , > .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. > > If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of unsubscribing, > you can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My > Membership" on the home page. > > Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:aquaticlife-digest%40yahoogroups.com> to receive the digest, > which includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email > > Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:aquaticlife-nomail%40yahoogroups.com> for the No E-Mail option > where you will still be able to read messages on the group and post > replies. > > Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:aquaticlife-normal%40yahoogroups.com> to receive individual > e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links > > ------------------------------------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the home page. Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com to receive the digest, which includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com for the No E-Mail option where you will still be able to read messages on the group and post replies. Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com to receive individual e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 44480	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 11/12/2009
Subject: Re: wisteria/lighting previous question/response revisited

I guess, by "worse", you mean that their website doesn't say crap about their products? I went to the hood for #21230 and all it has is a picture that opens up... nothing about the lighting specs, etc. I'm not sure why you sent the ZZ Top vid. The one I sent was Troglodyte which has the line about "Bertha, Bertha Butt, one of the Butt sisters"... since I mentioned "BUT... and it's a BIG BUT...". Guess my warped sense of humor got hold of me again. LOL BUT... their lighting page, once again, mentions ONLY T-8 bulbs (see 17W, 24") but nothing else as far as lumens or K rating so overall, their website would get an F- rating from me. http://www.aqueonproducts.com/products/fluorescent-lamps-and-starters.htm Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of bill 1433 Sent: Thursday, November 12, 2009 8:13 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: wisteria/lighting previous question/response revisited Ok then here's one worse? http://www.aqueonproducts.com/ who is also All-Glass. Wait until you read the funny stuff about Hoods, lighting and tubes. My hood is their # 21230. Check out tube size! Check on youtube but would rather be on this one and better yet, it goes wiwth my current mood! http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZHRHc5HmFHg&feature=channel Hey these boys could be neighbors, just accross the top of your state and a bit toward the west! Don't know about \\Steve// on this one? Bill --- On Thu, 11/12/09, Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@...> wrote: > From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@...> > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: wisteria/lighting previous question/response revisited > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Date: Thursday, November 12, 2009, 8:59 PM > OK.  I did a Google and DFS > showed up near the top for an All-Glass > fluorescent bulb and here's the page and low and behold, > they have a 24" 17W > bulb listed... BUT this bulb was not showing up on any > previous searches on > DFS. > > http://www.drsfostersmith.com/product/prod_display.cfm?pcatid=12850 > > BUT.... and it's a BIG BUT... (all the way up in the > "Bertha" category ;-) > *) > > According to that page, it's a T-8 bulb... NOT a T-4 > bulb.  Are you > confusing radius with diameter?  A 1" (T-8) diameter > bulb would have a 1/2" > radius so I want to make sure we're still on the right > track. > > Unfortunately, according to the above page, it's an 8000K > bulb and they do > not list the lumens. > > If you do reach All-Glass, ask them about the lumens on > that bulb and > whether it's a T-8 or not.  Or maybe if you double > check your measuring, > you'll find that it's a 1" diameter and a T-8 bulb.  > I'll be surprised if it > is a T-4 bulb since I cannot find anything about a T-4 bulb > matching your > measurements or wattage. > > * BTW... who's now humming http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VlRXQEA0yj0 ?  I > know \\Steve// is! ;-) > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed > on the right > side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives > by Year, Month) > > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] > On > Behalf Of bill 1433 > Sent: Thursday, November 12, 2009 7:28 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: wisteria/lighting previous > question/response > revisited > > Hi Len, > > I wrote all of this before but with going back and fourth > so many times > its more that possible that you missed it.  Yes, it's > a 30" fixture that has > one > tube in it at 24" or exactly measurements are 23" end piece > or band to end > piece, the tube over-all measure's 23 7/8 from pin edge to > pin edge. > > Now all that being said it is stamped or printed at 17 > Watts from All-Glass > and the final piece of the puzzle and probably why none of > us can find any > information is what else is stamped or printed on the > tube:  "Made In > Germany"! > > Again, I think we are on "middle ground" with the 23 > 7/8.  It could very > well be that it is also the 22 5/16 again the "where" and > whose is doing the > measuring that counts.  Giving all of this a lot of > thought and the > aggravation of it all, which is now reaching critical mass, > I did today come > one with one lone constructive thought. > > How about if I try to give All-Glass a phone call and find > out just exactly > what if any tubes can be used with this fixture?  I > thought originally to > try taking it apart and getting an "eyeball" on the ballast > but to do so > could risk damage to the unit as it is stamped or put > together in spots with > those flimsy plastic tabs and I really don't want to risk > the damage to the > unit. > > Next order of business, find a phone number for these > folks! > > Bill > > > --- On Thu, 11/12/09, Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@...> > wrote: > > > From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@...> > > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: wisteria/lighting > previous > question/response revisited > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > Date: Thursday, November 12, 2009, 5:04 PM > > Can you show me a link to a T-4, 17W > > bulb?  I haven't found a single one in > > all the reading that I've been doing.  Remind me how > > long your bulbs are > > again?  I scrolled down looking and didn't see an > > exact answer.  In looking > > at your link to DFS about your fixture, I see that for > the > > 29G/20G, it's 30" > > long with the 24" bulbs but I wanted to be sure since > every > > site I look at > > for T-4's, they do not come in 17W or 24" length so > I'm > > still thinking > > something is wrong with your calculations or the > reading of > > the specs/calcs > > that you do have. > > > > Here are three different sites with their lists of > T-4 > > bulbs and as you can > > see, there are NO 17W bulbs and no 24" bulbs. > > > > http://www.lightbulbsdirect.com/page/001/CTGY/T4 > > http://www.buylighting.com/T4-Fluorescent-s/102.htm > > http://www.servicelighting.com/T4-Straight-Linear-Fluorescent-Light-Bulbs > > > > The closest that T-4's come are 20.5" or 22-5/16" with > only > > one type/brand > > having the 22-5/16" bulb as a specialty bulb and all > of the > > other T-4's are > > 20.5" and then jump up to 33 7/8" or 33.9" depending > on the > > site. > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > > (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are > listed > > on the right > > side, alphabetically under Labels and also under > Archives > > by Year, Month) > > > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] > > On > > Behalf Of bill 1433 > > Sent: Thursday, November 12, 2009 3:27 PM > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: wisteria/lighting > previous > > question/response > > revisited > > > > Hi Len, > > > > Like I said, they are a 1/2" but so far all I can > find > > around here > > are "cool white" and "warm light" bulbs. > > > > Bill > > > > --- On Thu, 11/12/09, Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@...> > > wrote: > > > > > From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@...> > > > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: wisteria/lighting > > previous > > question/response revisited > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > > Date: Thursday, November 12, 2009, 3:48 PM > > > Bulb diameter is easy.  Take the > > > bulb and place it over a ruler/tape > > > measurer and look straight down on it.  It > should be > > > easy to discern between > > > 1/2" (T-4) and 1" (T-8) and the T-5 (5/8") uses > a > > > completely different > > > single pin on each end so that would eliminate > that > > > bulb.  Or better yet.. > > > take your bulb to the WalMart and compare apples > to > > apples > > > and you'll then > > > know exactly what you have and also be able to > see > > what > > > your local WalMart > > > offers as far as better bulbs.  You can probably > get > > > much more lighting with > > > a new $5.00 to $10.00 bulb. > > > > > > Then Santa can still bring you the bigger tank > and > > > accessories and your > > > other tanks will also be far more functional in > case > > you > > > choose to sell them > > > or just have more tanks.  As far as selling > your > > > unused stuff, > > > CraigsList.org is free and you can renew the ad > every > > week > > > until you find > > > the right buyer who is willing to pay the best > price > > you > > > can get. > > > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > > > (Links to any articles referenced in above reply > are > > listed > > > on the right > > > side, alphabetically under Labels and also under > > Archives > > > by Year, Month) > > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] > > > On > > > Behalf Of bill 1433 > > > Sent: Thursday, November 12, 2009 2:27 PM > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: wisteria/lighting > > previous > > > question/response > > > revisited > > > > > > Bulb Diameter Len, and now you see my problem.  > I > > > haven't found any either. > > > Also reading and studying all that you have sent > me so > > far > > > I come away from > > > all of this with one single thought, is it worth > > it?  > > > > > > > > > With all this being said and it so close to the > time > > for a > > > visit from > > > "Santa", I'm wondering if I should not put all > you > > have > > > taught me to better > > > use by just getting something like a standard > > 55-gallon > > > tank!  These lights > > > do cost a bit but there is not a huge different > > between > > > size vs. cost from a > > > 29 to a 55.  Then to is the issue of what to do > with > > > the plastic covers I > > > already have should I go to the all glass > covers. > > > > > > Sell them, sure but to whom?  Remember, I'm the > guy > > > that has a hard time > > > just trying to find a place to buy fish around > here, > > there > > > just aren't that > > > many places or people.  No matter what I do, I > > promise > > > to keep you posted. > > > > > > Thanks for all you've taught and helped me with, > > > > > > Bill > > > > > > > > > --- On Thu, 11/12/09, Lenny V. aka GoldLenny > <GoldLenny@...> > > > wrote: > > > > > > > From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@...> > > > > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: > wisteria/lighting > > > previous > > > question/response revisited > > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > > > Date: Thursday, November 12, 2009, 2:42 PM > > > > Once again Bill.... you need to get > > > > away from the "Watts" mindset.  It's > > > > just not applicable with the wide array of > bulbs > > > available > > > > nowadays.  That > > > > link goes to a CFL light strip and 65 watts > of > > CFL > > > lighting > > > > is a LOT, LOT, > > > > LOT (3 LOTS) more lighting than 65 watts of > an > > > incandescent > > > > bulb and a LOT, > > > > LOT (2 LOTS) more lighting than a 65W > normal > > > fluorescent > > > > bulb.  This would > > > > probably increase your lighting by 10X's > over > > what you > > > have > > > > now.  If you > > > > just went with 20W (range) CFL's, you'd get > > 2-3X's > > > more > > > > light than you > > > > currently have.  > > > > > > > > You still need to do some more research on > your > > > current > > > > bulbs to find out > > > > the specs on them.  Without knowing your > > current > > > > specs, it's difficult to > > > > know how much more lighting you might > want/need. > > > > > > > > Since you got your fixture and bulbs from > DFS, I > > just > > > did a > > > > search of '17 > > > > watt fluorescent' and four bulbs came up.. > one > > was a > > > CFL so > > > > that wasn't it > > > > and the other three are below BUT none of > them > > are > > > T-4's... > > > > in fact, so far, > > > > I have not been able to find a T-4, 17W > bulb > > > > anywhere.  What are you > > > > measuring to come up with the 1/2" > figure?  > > Bulb > > > > diameter, pin separation or > > > > other??? > > > > > > > > http://www.drsfostersmith.com/product/prod_display.cfm?pcatid=3787 > > > > (24", > > > > T-8, 5500K, nothing for lumens) > > > > > > > > http://www.drsfostersmith.com/product/prod_display.cfm?pcatid=4491 > > > > (24", > > > > T-8, Actinic 420nm, nothing for lumens) > > > > > > > > http://www.drsfostersmith.com/product/prod_display.cfm?pcatid=4489 > > > > (24", > > > > T-8, 6500K, nothing for lumens) > > > > > > > > You need to take your bulb out and go to a > local > > > lighting > > > > store (department) > > > > or even the Walmart and see if they can give > you > > more > > > info > > > > on it or at least > > > > you might find identical sized bulbs that > do > > have > > > specs on > > > > them so you can > > > > be more informed about what you have. > > > > > > > > While I was at the DFS site, and since you > > previously > > > > mentioned that you > > > > have an All-Glass hood that came with the > one > > bulb > > > light > > > > strip, I did a > > > > search on DFS for 'All-Glass light' and > found > > this > > > link for > > > > the only single > > > > bulb light strip that All-Glass has on DFS' > > site. > > > > > > > > http://www.drsfostersmith.com/product/prod_display.cfm?pcatid=3793 > > > > > > > > It comes in 16" or 20" lengths.  There's a > link > > to > > > > "View compatible Bulbs" > > > > in the Description tab, which brings up a > page > > of > > > bulbs and > > > > ALL of the ones > > > > compatible for the 20" strip are T-8 > bulbs.  > > There > > > are > > > > a couple of dozen > > > > bulbs listed so I didn't go through them > and > > > unfortunately, > > > > they do NOT list > > > > the wattage on that list so I wasn't able to > find > > any > > > 17W > > > > bulbs without > > > > checking a bunch of links.  Since it was > an > > > All-Glass > > > > fixture, I did click > > > > on the first All-Glass brand bulb which > brought > > up > > > this > > > > page... > > > > > > > > http://www.drsfostersmith.com/product/prod_display.cfm?pcatid=12850 > > > > > > > > And you will see that there is either an > 18", 15W > > bulb > > > or a > > > > 24", 17W bulb, > > > > as well as others... and these are the > 8000K > > bulbs > > > which > > > > were listed in the > > > > description on the website link that you > posted > > > earlier > > > > BUT.. these are ALL > > > > T-8 bulbs, not T-4's so we're back to that > spec > > issue > > > > again.  This page does > > > > call them 8000K Daylight, Full Spectrum > bulbs so > > maybe > > > they > > > > are OK but I > > > > wish that the DFS site would list lumens > since > > that is > > > a > > > > critical, > > > > need-to-know piece of information that is > > missing.  > > > As > > > > seen in my previous > > > > posts, the same sized bulbs can have a > lumen > > output > > > that is > > > > 50% to 100% > > > > higher than a comparable bulb of the same > size... > > and > > > that > > > > makes a HUGE > > > > difference in lighting. > > > > > > > > Once again, take the bulb to your WalMart > and > > compare > > > > apples to apples and > > > > find out exactly what size bulb you have > and > > while > > > there, > > > > look at other > > > > identical sized bulbs and look for the > highest > > lumens > > > in > > > > the 5000K to 6500K > > > > range, buy one and bring it home and see if > it's > > a > > > LOT > > > > brighter than what > > > > you now have.  If so, that might do the > trick. > > > > > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > > > > (Links to any articles referenced in above > reply > > are > > > listed > > > > on the right > > > > side, alphabetically under Labels and also > under > > > Archives > > > > by Year, Month) > > > > > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > > > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] > > > > On > > > > Behalf Of bill 1433 > > > > Sent: Thursday, November 12, 2009 12:12 PM > > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: > wisteria/lighting > > > previous > > > > question/response > > > > revisited > > > > > > > > Hi Amber, > > > > > > > > The links Len provided are very close BUT > it's > > the > > > ends of > > > > the tube or pins > > > > that worry me.  They are very close but > "how"? > > > > > > > > Meaning this buying the tube, ok by mail?  > Now > > what > > > if > > > > it doesn't work? > > > > Rreturn a $10.00 tube the postage would > cost > > more.  > > > > I'm trying to work > > > > backward now from Len's link, and get a > > manufacture so > > > I > > > > can buy around > > > > here.  Also I'm getting made enough now to > > scrape > > > the > > > > whole thing and just > > > > get a new All-Glass cover then maybe one of > > these: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > http://www.drsfostersmith.com/product/prod_display.cfm?c=3578+3733+9654+9871 > > > > &pcatid=9871 > > > > > > > > This link is not pointing to the exact > Coralife > > > product I > > > > want at Doctors > > > > its # apn-16981, if you have their catalog > but I > > can't > > > make > > > > it come up on > > > > search at their site.  It is a single rated > at > > 65 > > > > watts and is 24". > > > > > > > > Bill > > > > --- On Thu, 11/12/09, Amber Berglund <arberglund@...> > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > From: Amber Berglund <arberglund@...> > > > > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: > > wisteria/lighting > > > > previous > > > > question/response revisited > > > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > > > > Date: Thursday, November 12, 2009, > 12:59 PM > > > > > Bill does have T-4's if I remember > > > > > correctly, maybe one of those 20watt > > > > > bulbs will work for him and provide > more > > lumens > > > than > > > > his > > > > > current bulbs do. > > > > > Did you check those links out Bill? ;) > > > > > > > > > > Amber > > > > > > > > > > Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > Just because a fixture currently > has a > > T-8 > > > or > > > > T-10, > > > > > does not mean it > > > > > > cannot > > > > > > use a T-12, and vice versa. They > are > > all > > > medium > > > > bi-pin > > > > > bulbs, meaning they > > > > > > all will fit and work UNLESS the > > reflector > > > is so > > > > tight > > > > > that a T-12 cannot > > > > > > fit inside the fixture but I > haven't > > seen > > > this as > > > > a > > > > > problem in the past. > > > > > > Usually, going with a T-8 or > T-10, > > instead > > > of a > > > > T-12 > > > > > will give more lumens > > > > > > but in the case of this > particular > > sized > > > bulb, > > > > the > > > > > T-12 may be the better > > > > > > option. Of course, we still need > more > > > details on > > > > > Bill's exact bulb. We > > > > > > still do not know anything except > that > > it's > > > 17 > > > > > watts... nothing about > > > > > > lumens, K rating or anything else > for > > > comparison > > > > > purposes. As Johnny 5 > > > > > > once > > > > > > said... "Need more input!" (I have > no > > clue > > > why > > > > that > > > > > OLD movie line popped > > > > > > into my head and I can't blame it > on > > drugs > > > since > > > > I > > > > > didn't/don't do them... > > > > > > and as far as I know, beer > doesn't > > cause > > > acid > > > > > flashbacks. LOL > > > > > > http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Short_Circuit > > > > > > <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Short_Circuit>) > > > > > > > > > > > > Now... thinking back a little. > Bill > > may > > > have > > > > T-4's and > > > > > if he does, those > > > > > > use the miniature bi-pin base and > the > > above > > > > larger > > > > > T-#'s with medium > > > > > > bi-pin > > > > > > base would not work. If this is > the > > case, > > > there > > > > are > > > > > other options > > > > > > listed on > > > > > > this page... > > > > > > > > > > > > http://www.servicelighting.com/T4-Straight-Linear-Fluorescent-Light-Bulbs > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > <http://www.servicelighting.com/T4-Straight-Linear-Fluorescent-Light-Bulbs> > > > > > > including this 20W, 6400K, 1340 > Lumens > > bulb > > > - > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > http://www.servicelighting.com/Bulbrite-85220-F20T4-64K-F20T4-D-T4-Straight- > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > <http://www.servicelighting.com/Bulbrite-85220-F20T4-64K-F20T4-D-T4-Straight > > > > -> > > > > > > Linear-Fluorescent-Light-Bulb, > which > > sounds > > > like > > > > a > > > > > pretty good bulb > > > > > > from the > > > > > > specs and actually provides more > lumens > > than > > > any > > > > of > > > > > the T-12's previously > > > > > > listed. > > > > > > > > > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > > > > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > > > > (Links to any articles referenced > in > > above > > > reply > > > > are > > > > > listed on the right > > > > > > side, alphabetically under Labels > and > > also > > > under > > > > > Archives by Year, Month) > > > > > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > > > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > > > > > > > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > > > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > > > > > > > > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On > > > > > > Behalf Of Amber Berglund > > > > > > Sent: Thursday, November 12, 2009 > 10:29 > > AM > > > > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: > > > wisteria/lighting > > > > > previous > > > > > > question/response > > > > > > revisited > > > > > > > > > > > > Bill has smaller bulbs, I think > they > > are not > > > easy > > > > to > > > > > find in a higher > > > > > > wattage output, which is what he > was > > looking > > > for > > > > a few > > > > > months back. > > > > > > > > > > > > Amber > > > > > > > > > > > > Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I don't know what you mean > by > > this. > > > Please > > > > > elaborate. What size tube? > > > > > > > I posted about several > different > > bulbs > > > but > > > > all > > > > > were T-12's, which is > > > > > > > one of the most common > sizes. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > > > > > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > > > > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > > > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>> > > > > > > (Links to any articles referenced > in > > > > > > > above reply are listed on > the > > right > > > side, > > > > > alphabetically under Labels > > > > > > > and also under Archives by > Year, > > > Month) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > > > > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > > > > > > > > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On > > > > > Behalf Of bill 1433 > > > > > > > Sent: Thursday, November 12, > 2009 > > 8:59 > > > AM > > > > > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > > > > > > > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] > Re: > > > > wisteria/lighting > > > > > previous > > > > > > > question/response revisited > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Yes Len, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > But its finding that size > tube > > with > > > more of > > > > > anything that's the problem. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Bill > > > > > > > > > > > > > > --- On Wed, 11/11/09, Lenny > V. > > aka > > > > GoldLenny > > > > > <GoldLenny@... > > > > > > > > > > > > <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com> > > > > > > > > > > <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com>> > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > From: Lenny V. aka > GoldLenny > > > <GoldLenny@... > > > > > > > > > > > > <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com> > > > > > > > > > > <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com>> > > > > > > > > Subject: RE: > [AquaticLife] > > Re: > > > > > wisteria/lighting previous > > > > > > > > question/response > revisited > > > > > > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > > > > > > > > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > > Date: Wednesday, > November > > 11, > > > 2009, > > > > 5:22 PM > > > > > Well, if you only have > > > > > > > > 17W, then you could > > definitely do > > > > better > > > > > with the 20W, higher lumen, > > > > > > > > better K rating bulbs > that I > > > > mentioned. > > > > > Considering the lumen > > > > > > > > ratings of fluorescent > bulbs > > I've > > > > looked at, > > > > > your 17W bulbs might > > > > > > > > only have 500-700 > lumens > > where the > > > BEST > > > > 20W > > > > > bulb (below) has > > > > > > > > 1075 lumens so you > > > > > > > > could possibly increase > your > > > lighting > > > > by 50% > > > > > to 100% just by > > > > > > > > changing to that bulb. > At > > least, > > > with > > > > that > > > > > bulb, you'll be in the > > > > > > > > low-light range for > plants on > > the > > > 20G > > > > but > > > > > the 29G will need some work. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Of course, you should > find > > out > > > what > > > > the > > > > > lumens and K ratings are on > > > > > > > > the bulbs you have so > you'll > > know > > > if > > > > you are > > > > > getting a small jump or > > > > > > > > a BIG jump in lighting > just > > by > > > changing > > > > your > > > > > bulbs. Check your local > > > > > > > > WalMart for bulbs. My > nearby > > > WalMart > > > > > SuperCenter has a really big > > > > > > > > assortment of > fluorescent > > tubes > > > and > > > > they > > > > > were cheaper than the Home > > > > > > > > Depot. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Something else I'm > thinking > > about > > > for > > > > you is > > > > > going with 18" > > > > > > > > light-sticks on > > > > > > > > each end of your 29G > tank or > > front > > > or > > > > back > > > > > (back would hide it best > > > > > > > > but you decide your > best > > > aesthetics) > > > > and > > > > > you'd have to make a DIY > > > > > > > > reflector for it (white > > poster > > > board > > > > and > > > > > scotch tape would work) and > > > > > > > > that would get more > lighting > > down > > > to > > > > the > > > > > bottom level plants in the > > > > > > > > 29G. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > > > > > > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > > > > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > > > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>> > > > > > > (Links to any articles > > > > > > > > referenced in above > reply > > are > > > listed on > > > > the > > > > > right side, > > > > > > > > alphabetically under > Labels > > and > > > also > > > > under > > > > > Archives by Year, Month) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -----Original > Message----- > > > > > > > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > > > > > > > > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > > > > > > > > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] > > > > > > > > On > > > > > > > > Behalf Of bill 1433 > > > > > > > > Sent: Wednesday, > November 11, > > 2009 > > > 3:42 > > > > PM > > > > > > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > > > > > > > > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > > Subject: RE: > [AquaticLife] > > Re: > > > > > wisteria/lighting previous > > > > > > > > question/response > revisited > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > It is what it is type > of > > thing > > > Len. > > > > Site > > > > > says one thing but stamped > > > > > > > > or printed right on the > tube > > is at > > > 17 > > > > > watts. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Bill > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > --- On Wed, 11/11/09, > Lenny > > V. > > > aka > > > > GoldLenny > > > > > <GoldLenny@... > > > > > > > > > > > > <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com> > > > > > > > > > > <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com>> > > > > > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > From: Lenny V. aka > > GoldLenny > > > > <GoldLenny@... > > > > > > > > > > > > <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com> > > > > > > > > > > <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com>> > > > > > > > > > Subject: RE: > > [AquaticLife] > > > Re: > > > > > wisteria/lighting > > > > > > > > previous > > > > > > > > > question/response > > revisited > > > > > > > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > > > > > > > > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > > > Date: Wednesday, > > November > > > 11, > > > > 2009, > > > > > 2:16 PM The > > > > > > > > problem might be this > > > > > > > > > statement in the > > > description... > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > "... Hoods include > > 8000ºK > > > > bulb... > > > > > ...20W, 24"..." > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > That's getting into > the > > > higher > > > > > green/blue Kelvin > > > > > > > > range... > > > > > > > > > closer to the > > > > > > > > > 10,000K actinic > type > > bulbs... > > > than > > > > the > > > > > 5000K to 6500K > > > > > > > > "Daylight" bulbs > > > > > > > > > that provide full > > spectrum > > > > lighting. > > > > > It's also only > > > > > > > > a 20W bulb > > > > > > > > > (according to the > DFS > > site, > > > > although > > > > > you stated it was > > > > > > > > only 17W so > > > > > > > > > double check this) > so > > it's > > > only > > > > 1WPG on > > > > > the 20G and > > > > > > > > only 0.69WPG on > > > > > > > > > the 29G. Of course, > if > > the > > > bulb > > > > puts > > > > > out a LOT more > > > > > > > > lumens (you would > > > > > > > > > have to do more > checking > > up > > > on the > > > > bulb > > > > > to find this), > > > > > > > > that would help > > > > > > > > > a little but not > much. > > I > > > think you > > > > need > > > > > at least > > > > > > > > 1WPG to have success > > > > > > > > > with low-light > plants, > > > although > > > > > floating plants like > > > > > > > > Anacharis, > > > > > > > > > Hornwort, > Duckweed, > > etc., > > > would be > > > > up > > > > > close to the > > > > > > > > light and benefit > > > > > > > > > from CO2 from the > air > > and > > > would do > > > > OK > > > > > with your > > > > > > > > lighting... but then > > > > > > > > > they would also > block > > out > > > the > > > > lighting > > > > > to the rest of > > > > > > > > the tank. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I don't see a lot > of > > options, > > > as > > > > far as > > > > > T-8 bulbs are > > > > > > > > concerned for > > > > > > > > > this size fixture > but I > > see a > > > few > > > > > different T-12's... > > > > > > > > such as... > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > (My rating is: GOOD > - > > but > > > see > > > > BETTER > > > > > and BEST options > > > > > > > > below... at > > > > > > > > > least as far as > the > > bulbs on > > > this > > > > site > > > > > are concerned) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > http://www.servicelighting.com/Sylvania-22119-F20T12-DSGN50-T12-Straig > > > > > > > > > > > > > > <http://www.servicelighting.com/Sylvania-22119-F20T12-DSGN50-T12-Straig> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > <http://www.servicelighting.com/Sylvania-22119-F20T12-DSGN50-T12-Strai > > > > > > > > > > > > > > <http://www.servicelighting.com/Sylvania-22119-F20T12-DSGN50-T12-Strai> > > > > > > > g> > > > > > > > > > ht-Lin > > > > > > > > > > > ear-Fluorescent-Light-Bulb > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Light Output: 880 > > lumens > > > > > > > > > Refers to the > literal > > measure > > > of > > > > the > > > > > light-output of a > > > > > > > > particular > > > > > > > > > light bulb, > measured in > > the > > > number > > > > of > > > > > lumens. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Energy Used: 20 > watts > > > > > > > > > "Watts" is the > term > > applied > > > to > > > > the > > > > > amount of energy > > > > > > > > required and used > > > > > > > > > by a particular > light > > bulb. > > > It is > > > > an > > > > > international > > > > > > > > system unit of > > > > > > > > > power equal to one > joule > > per > > > > second. > > > > > Contrary to > > > > > > > > popular belief, the > > > > > > > > > wattage of a bulb > does > > not > > > > directly > > > > > measure the > > > > > > > > brightness; the > > > > > > > > > "lumens" of a light > is > > what > > > > defines the > > > > > actual light > > > > > > > > output. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Average Lifetime: > 9,000 > > > hours > > > > > > > > > This refers to an > > average > > > > lifetime > > > > > rating based on > > > > > > > > large quantities in > > > > > > > > > test groups. This > > testing > > > takes > > > > into > > > > > account usage of > > > > > > > > 3 hours per > > > > > > > > > start for > fluorescent > > lamps > > > and > > > > 10 > > > > > hours per start for > > > > > > > > HID lamps. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Bulb Type: T12 > > > > > > > > > The "Bulb Type" is > > typically > > > a > > > > > combination of the > > > > > > > > style of bulb as > > > > > > > > > well as the width > of > > the > > > bulb. > > > > Usually, > > > > > the first > > > > > > > > couple letters will > > > > > > > > > indicate the type; > "G" > > would > > > > indicate > > > > > "Globe", "PAR" > > > > > > > > would indicate > > > > > > > > > "Parabolic > Reflector"... > > The > > > > numbers > > > > > indicate the > > > > > > > > diameter of the > > > > > > > > > light bulb in > eighths of > > an > > > inch; > > > > a > > > > > "G40" would be a > > > > > > > > "Globe" style > > > > > > > > > that is "5 inches" > in > > > diameter. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Base Type: Medium > > Bi-Pin > > > > > > > > > The "Base" of a > light > > bulb is > > > the > > > > part > > > > > that either > > > > > > > > screws or snaps > > > > > > > > > into a receptacle. > Base > > Type > > > > > terminology may indicate > > > > > > > > common > > > > > > > > > descriptive words > like > > > "Medium" > > > > or > > > > > "Candelabra", or > > > > > > > > may even contain > > > > > > > > > numeric codes that > > signify > > > size > > > > and > > > > > variety, like > > > > > > > > "E26" or "2GX13". > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Color Temperature: > > 5,000K > > > > > > > > > Correlated Color > > Temperature > > > (CCT) > > > > is a > > > > > specification > > > > > > > > of the color > > > > > > > > > appearance of a > lamp, > > > relating > > > > its > > > > > color to that of a > > > > > > > > reference source > > > > > > > > > heated to a > particular > > > > temperature, > > > > > measured in > > > > > > > > degrees Kelvin (K). It > > > > > > > > > generally measures > the > > > "warmth" > > > > or > > > > > "coolness" of light > > > > > > > > source > > > > > > > > > appearance. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > CRI: 90 > > > > > > > > > CRI refers to the > > "Color > > > > Rendering > > > > > Index" of a light > > > > > > > > bulb. > > > > > > > > > CRI measures a > > > > > > > > > light source and > grades > > its > > > > ability to > > > > > render the > > > > > > > > color of objects > > > > > > > > > "correctly," as > compared > > with > > > a > > > > > reference source with > > > > > > > > comparable color > > > > > > > > > temperature. 100 > is > > perfect > > > > rendering. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Length: 24 inches > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > (BETTER - slightly > > higher > > > lumens > > > > and > > > > > higher 6500K > > > > > > > > rating) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > http://www.servicelighting.com/Westinghouse-36516-F20T12-FS-T12-Straig > > > > > > > > > > > > > > <http://www.servicelighting.com/Westinghouse-36516-F20T12-FS-T12-Straig> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > <http://www.servicelighting.com/Westinghouse-36516-F20T12-FS-T12-Strai > > > > > > > > > > > > > > <http://www.servicelighting.com/Westinghouse-36516-F20T12-FS-T12-Strai> > > > > > > > g> > > > > > > > > > ht-Lin > > > > > > > > > > > ear-Fluorescent-Light-Bulb > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Light Output: 900 > > lumens > > > > > > > > > Energy Used: 20 > watts > > > > > > > > > Average Lifetime: > > 10,000 > > > hours > > > > > > > > > Bulb Type: T12 > > > > > > > > > Base Type: Medium > > Bi-Pin > > > > > > > > > Color Temperature: > > 6,500K > > > > > > > > > CRI: 90 > > > > > > > > > Length: 24 inches > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > (BEST, of these > three - > > > around > > > > 20% > > > > > higher lumens and > > > > > > > > good 6,500K > > > > > > > > > rating, although it > does > > have > > > a > > > > lower > > > > > CRI rating.. but > > > > > > > > still > > > > > > > > > passing) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > http://www.servicelighting.com/Sylvania-22083-F20T12-D-T12-Straight-Li > > > > > > > > > > > > > > <http://www.servicelighting.com/Sylvania-22083-F20T12-D-T12-Straight-Li> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > <http://www.servicelighting.com/Sylvania-22083-F20T12-D-T12-Straight-L > > > > > > > > > > > > > > <http://www.servicelighting.com/Sylvania-22083-F20T12-D-T12-Straight-L> > > > > > > > i> > > > > > > > > > near-F > > > > > > > > > > luorescent-Light-Bulb > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Light Output: > 1,075 > > lumens > > > > > > > > > Energy Used: 20 > watts > > > > > > > > > Average Lifetime: > 9,000 > > > hours > > > > > > > > > Bulb Type: T12 > > > > > > > > > Base Type: Medium > > Bi-Pin > > > > > > > > > Color Temperature: > > 6,500K > > > > > > > > > CRI: 76 > > > > > > > > > Length: 24 inches > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Compare the above > three > > to > > > what is > > > > sold > > > > > as a > > > > > > > > plant/aquarium light by > > > > > > > > > the same company, > which > > has > > > a > > > > lower > > > > > lumens, MUCH lower > > > > > > > > CRI rating and > > > > > > > > > does not list the > K > > rating > > > other > > > > than > > > > > to say "Plant" > > > > > > > > which is a > > > > > > > > > subjective rating > > established > > > by > > > > the > > > > > manufacturer. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > (WORST) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > http://www.servicelighting.com/Westinghouse-36411-F20T12-PL-T12-Straig > > > > > > > > > > > > > > <http://www.servicelighting.com/Westinghouse-36411-F20T12-PL-T12-Straig> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > <http://www.servicelighting.com/Westinghouse-36411-F20T12-PL-T12-Strai > > > > > > > > > > > > > > <http://www.servicelighting.com/Westinghouse-36411-F20T12-PL-T12-Strai> > > > > > > > g> > > > > > > > > > ht-Lin > > > > > > > > > > > ear-Fluorescent-Light-Bulb > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Light Output: 700 > > lumens > > > (over 30% > > > > less > > > > > lighting > > > > > > > > than the 1,075 > > > > > > > > > lumens bulb > > > > > > > > > above) > > > > > > > > > Energy Used: 20 > watts > > > > > > > > > Average Lifetime: > > 10,000 > > > hours > > > > > > > > > Bulb Type: T12 > > > > > > > > > Base Type: Medium > > Bi-Pin > > > > > > > > > Color: Plant > > > > > > > > > CRI: 61 > > > > > > > > > Length: 24 inches > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > If any of the > above > > have > > > much > > > > better > > > > > lumens than your > > > > > > > > current > > > > > > > > > lighting... > > > > > > > > > and they all have > better > > K > > > > ratings, > > > > > then any of them > > > > > > > > would be better > > > > > > > > > for you... but you > > would > > > still be > > > > stuck > > > > > with only 20 > > > > > > > > watts but it's > > > > > > > > > the LUMENS and K > rating > > that > > > count > > > > more > > > > > than watts. > > > > > > > > You need to find > > > > > > > > > out the lumens on > your > > bulb. > > > Try > > > > to > > > > > find it on the > > > > > > > > DFS site and let > > > > > > > > > us know. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > You should look at > the > > > > AHSupply.com > > > > > place for a > > > > > > > > retrofit kit so you > > > > > > > > > can use CFL's in > your > > > current > > > > hood. > > > > > That would > > > > > > > > probably be your least > > > > > > > > > expensive option. I > know > > you > > > don't > > > > like > > > > > electricity > > > > > > > > but I'm sure you > > > > > > > > > know someone that > could > > do > > > this > > > > for > > > > > you... on the > > > > > > > > cheap... or over a > > > > > > > > > 6-pack. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > > > > > > > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > > > > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > > > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>> > > > > > > (Links to > > > > > > > > any articles > > > > > > > > > referenced in > above > > reply > > > are > > > > listed on > > > > > the right > > > > > > > > side, alphabetically > > > > > > > > > under Labels and > also > > under > > > > Archives by > > > > > Year, Month) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -----Original > > Message----- > > > > > > > > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > > > > > > > > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > > > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > > > > > > > > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] > > > > > > > > > On > > > > > > > > > Behalf Of bill > 1433 > > > > > > > > > Sent: Wednesday, > > November 11, > > > 2009 > > > > 9:33 > > > > > AM > > > > > > > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > > > > > > > > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > > > Subject: RE: > > [AquaticLife] > > > Re: > > > > > wisteria/lighting > > > > > > > > previous > > > > > > > > > question/response > > > > > > > > > revisited > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Hi \\Steve// > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > At this point, and > also > > to > > > refresh > > > > your > > > > > mind, and > > > > > > > > anyone > > > > > > > > > else on the group > > > > > > > > > that may have > interest. > > This > > > all > > > > got > > > > > started with > > > > > > > > my > > > > > > > > > search for a tube > that > > > > > > > > > would allow me > more > > light > > > output > > > > from > > > > > an All Glass > > > > > > > > Plastic > > > > > > > > > hood and light. > > > > > > > > > This unit comes > with a > > "color > > > type > > > > tube > > > > > at 17 watts > > > > > > > > that is > > > > > > > > > only 24 inches > > > > > > > > > long. This is for > a > > > 20/29-gallon > > > > tank. > > > > > I was stupid enough to buy > > > > > > > > > two of them, one > for > > each > > > tank. > > > > For > > > > > further inspection > > > > > > > > here > > > > > > > > > is the light: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > http://www.drsfostersmith.com/product/prod_display.cfm?pcatid=13447 > > > > > > > > > > > > > <http://www.drsfostersmith.com/product/prod_display.cfm?pcatid=13447> > > > > > > > > > <http://www.drsfostersmith.com/product/prod_display.cfm?pcatid=13447 > > > > > > > > > > > > > <http://www.drsfostersmith.com/product/prod_display.cfm?pcatid=13447>> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > For those that > would > > like to > > > > aggravate > > > > > themselves > > > > > > > > further, > > > > > > > > > I can also state > > > > > > > > > that these hoods > are > > very > > > > conducive to > > > > > growing Black Algae! > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Summoning up, I > should > > have > > > only > > > > > purchased an > > > > > > > > All-Glass > > > > > > > > > cover and then > > > > > > > > > probably a double > tube > > light > > > of > > > > > sufficient wattage to > > > > > > > > bring > > > > > > > > > me up to the > > > > > > > > > recommended 2 or 3 > watts > > per > > > > gallon. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Ya live and learn, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Bill > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > --- On Tue, > 11/10/09, > > Steve > > > Szabo > > > > > <steve@... > > > > > > > > > > > > <mailto:steve%40familyszabo.com> > > > > > > > > > > <mailto:steve%40familyszabo.com>> > > > > > > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > From: Steve > Szabo > > <steve@... > > > > > > > > > > > > <mailto:steve%40familyszabo.com> > > > > > > > > > > <mailto:steve%40familyszabo.com>> > > > > > > > > > > Subject: RE: > > > [AquaticLife] > > > > Re: > > > > > wisteria/lighting > > > > > > > > > previous > > > > > > > > > > > question/response > > > revisited > > > > > > > > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > > > > > > > > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > > > > Date: > Tuesday, > > November > > > 10, > > > > 2009, > > > > > 11:50 PM Bill, > > > > > > > > you > > > > > > > > > got it right! The > > > > > > > > > > T numbers > represent > > the > > > > diameter > > > > > of the bulb in > > > > > > > > 1/8" > > > > > > > > > increments. A T4 > > > > > > > > > > is a bulb 1/2" > in > > > diameter, > > > > T5 is > > > > > 5/8", t8 is > > > > > > > > 1" and > > > > > > > > > a t12 is 1 1/2". > > > > > > > > > > As I recall, > the F > > is > > > the > > > > wattage > > > > > of the bulb. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Lumens, not > > usually > > > stated on > > > > the > > > > > bulb is the > > > > > > > > actual > > > > > > > > > amount of light > > > > > > > > > > coming from > the > > bulb. > > > It > > > > really > > > > > does not have > > > > > > > > anything > > > > > > > > > to do with > > > > > > > > > > watts, though > more > > watts > > > will > > > > give > > > > > you more > > > > > > > > lumens, > > > > > > > > > but, also the > > > > > > > > > > phosphors used > in > > the > > > bulb > > > > affect > > > > > the amount of > > > > > > > > lumen > > > > > > > > > output. Lumens > > > > > > > > > > and lux are > often > > used > > > > > interchangeably, but they > > > > > > > > are > > > > > > > > > really different > > > > > > > > > > measurements. > Lux > > is > > > the > > > > measure > > > > > of illumination > > > > > > > > over > > > > > > > > > a given area. It > > > > > > > > > > may actually > be > > more > > > > important to > > > > > aquarists > > > > > > > > raising > > > > > > > > > plants than the > > > > > > > > > > lumen output. > Lux > > is > > > what is > > > > > measured by a light > > > > > > > > > meter, for anyone > who > > > > > > > > > > happens to > know > > what > > > they > > > > are--not > > > > > often seen > > > > > > > > with > > > > > > > > > today's cameras > and > > > > > > > > > > > photographers. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Color > temperature > > is > > > > important. > > > > > Average daylight > > > > > > > > > (except may in > > > > > > > > > > Amber's area > where > > they > > > have > > > > 6 > > > > > months of > > > > > > > > darkness) has > > > > > > > > > a color > > > > > > > > > > temperature > of > > > 5500-6000. > > > > > > > > > > An overcast > day can > > have > > > a > > > > color > > > > > temperature of > > > > > > > > 6500. > > > > > > > > > As mentioned > > > > > > > > > > earlier, > plants > > need > > > light in > > > > two > > > > > color > > > > > > > > spectrums, > > > > > > > > > and, actually they > > > > > > > > > > are rather > narrow > > spans > > > of > > > > > wavelengths they > > > > > > > > benefit > > > > > > > > > from. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I thought I > had a > > > bookmark > > > > > explaining this, but > > > > > > > > I > > > > > > > > > can't find it > > > > > > > > > > quickly (over > 400K > > of > > > > bookmarks, > > > > > and things have > > > > > > > > a > > > > > > > > > tendency to get > > > > > > > > > > lost), > however, > > some > > > > judicial > > > > > Googling will gain > > > > > > > > you > > > > > > > > > the information. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > \\Steve// > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -----Original > > > Message----- > > > > > > > > > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > > > > > > > > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > > > > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > > > > > > > > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] > > > > > > > > > > On > > > > > > > > > > Behalf Of > bill > > 1433 > > > > > > > > > > Sent: > Tuesday, > > November > > > 10, > > > > 2009 > > > > > 10:20 PM > > > > > > > > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > > > > > > > > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > > > > Subject: Re: > > > [AquaticLife] > > > > Re: > > > > > wisteria/lighting > > > > > > > > > previous > > > > > > > > > > > question/response > > > revisited > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Yes, Amber > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > It was I, > looking > > for > > > the > > > > original > > > > > information > > > > > > > > and > > > > > > > > > also looked back > on > > > > > > > > > > \\Steve//'s > post > > at > > > group to > > > > try > > > > > and find. Ray > > > > > > > > had > > > > > > > > > mentioned all this > > > > > > > > > > the other day > > saying > > > that he > > > > > thought the posting > > > > > > > > came > > > > > > > > > from \\Steve//. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I was not > > successful in > > > my > > > > search. > > > > > Also, for me > > > > > > > > the > > > > > > > > > most important > > > > > > > > > > part was a > link to > > a > > > chart > > > > which > > > > > showed you > > > > > > > > exactly, > > > > > > > > > or explained > > > > > > > > > > exactly the > "T" > > > > > > > > > > factor stands > for. > > For > > > > instance, > > > > > T-4 would be a > > > > > > > > tube > > > > > > > > > that is a half > > > > > > > > > > inch wide, or > close > > to > > > > > it-----------I think. > > > > > > > > All > > > > > > > > > this is my own > > > > > > > > > > fault. In my > > interest > > > to > > > > acquire > > > > > and learn > > > > > > > > about > > > > > > > > > lighting,I went > > > > > > > > > > through and > studied > > the > > > > applied > > > > > links but being > > > > > > > > > ol'bill, I never > > > > > > > > > > bookmarked > them. > > > > > > > > > > Then to > further > > > > > > > > > > compound the > > problem, I > > > > deleted > > > > > the original > > > > > > > > message > > > > > > > > > that it came > > > > > > > > > > from. In > hind-sight > > you > > > > could > > > > > probably chalk > > > > > > > > this > > > > > > > > > all up to > felonious > > > > > > > > > > stupidity on > my > > part. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Bill---where > its > > always > > > a > > > > good day > > > > > if I learn > > > > > > > > > something new! > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > --- On Tue, > > 11/10/09, > > > Amber > > > > > Berglund <arberglund@... > > > > > > > > > > > > <mailto:arberglund%40gmail.com> > > > > > > > > > > <mailto:arberglund%40gmail.com>> > > > > > > > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > From: Amber > > Berglund > > > <arberglund@... > > > > > > > > > > > > <mailto:arberglund%40gmail.com> > > > > > > > > > > <mailto:arberglund%40gmail.com>> > > > > > > > > > > Subject: Re: > > > [AquaticLife] > > > > Re: > > > > > wisteria/lighting > > > > > > > > > previous > > > > > > > > > > > question/response > > > revisited > > > > > > > > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > > > > > > > > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > > > > Date: > Tuesday, > > November > > > 10, > > > > 2009, > > > > > 9:30 PM > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I believe it > was > > Steve > > > who > > > > posted > > > > > a link about > > > > > > > > lumens > > > > > > > > > months back when > > > > > > > > > > (I think it > was > > maybe > > > Bill > > > > asking) > > > > > about lighting > > > > > > > > for > > > > > > > > > planted > > > > > > > > > > aquariums. > > > > > > > > > > Plants require > 2 > > > different > > > > > spectrums of light to > > > > > > > > > properly produce > > > > > > > > > > either leaves > or > > flowers > > > (red > > > > is > > > > > more for flower > > > > > > > > > production and > blue > > > > > > > > > > is more for > growth, > > but > > > for > > > > the > > > > > best growing you > > > > > > > > want > > > > > > > > > a mixture of > > > > > > > > > > BOTH colors). > > > > > > > > > > So in reality > you > > would > > > want > > > > a > > > > > light that appears > > > > > > > > more > > > > > > > > > brown/reddish > > > > > > > > > > in coloring > and a > > > blue/white > > > > > coloring as well, > > > > > > > > but > > > > > > > > > they now have > bulbs > > > > > > > > > > that have > BOTH > > > spectrums > > > > built in > > > > > (I'm sure they > > > > > > > > don't > > > > > > > > > work as well as > > > > > > > > > > it would to > have 2 > > > different > > > > bulbs > > > > > one mostly red > > > > > > > > and > > > > > > > > > the other mostly > > > > > > > > > > blue on the > color > > > spectrum). > > > > > > > > > > Let me see if > I > > still > > > have > > > > the > > > > > link bookmarked. > > > > > > > > > > What I was > trying > > to say > > > is > > > > that > > > > > Kelvin does not > > > > > > > > tell > > > > > > > > > you what color > > > > > > > > > > spectrum the > light > > > REALLY is, > > > > it's > > > > > actually > > > > > > > > measuring > > > > > > > > > it's light > > > > > > > > > > output color > > according > > > to how > > > > the > > > > > human eyes > > > > > > > > perceive > > > > > > > > > it. So 6500 > > > > > > > > > > kelvin in > general > > is > > > what > > > > most > > > > > plants will > > > > > > > > prefer > > > > > > > > > because that is a > > > > > > > > > > mixture of > both red > > and > > > blue > > > > > spectrums (In MOST > > > > > > > > bulbs) > > > > > > > > > unfortunately > > > > > > > > > > not all light > bulb > > > > manufactures > > > > > have to use the > > > > > > > > exact > > > > > > > > > same chart for > > > > > > > > > > their colors, > so > > they > > > will > > > > have > > > > > different colors > > > > > > > > than > > > > > > > > > another bulb > > > > > > > > > > that says > it's > > 6500 > > > Kelvin. > > > > what > > > > > you really need > > > > > > > > to > > > > > > > > > read is the color > > > > > > > > > > chart on the > box, > > not > > > what > > > > lumens > > > > > it says it is. > > > > > > > > > > (still > searching > > for > > > link, > > > > LOL). > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > This isn't > the > > right > > > link but > > > > it > > > > > discusses the > > > > > > > > > kelvin/lumen > problems a > > > > > > > > > > little bit, > still > > > looking for > > > > the > > > > > link that > > > > > > > > showed the > > > > > > > > > charts and what > > > > > > > > > > to look for in > the > > > color > > > > charts. > > > > > > > > > > > > http://www.americanaquariumproducts.com/Aquarium_Lighting.html > > > > > > > > > > > <http://www.americanaquariumproducts.com/Aquarium_Lighting.html> > > > > > > > <http://www.americanaquariumproducts.com/Aquarium_Lighting.html > > > > > > > > > > > <http://www.americanaquariumproducts.com/Aquarium_Lighting.html>> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Will post > again > > when I > > > find > > > > the > > > > > other link with > > > > > > > > chart > > > > > > > > > examples. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Amber > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Lenny V. aka > > GoldLenny > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I think > it > > would > > > be > > > > false > > > > > advertising or > > > > > > > > > possibly > > > > > > > > > > > mis-advertising > > (if > > > they > > > > > > > > > > > do not > know > > any > > > better) > > > > if a > > > > > company lists > > > > > > > > their > > > > > > > > > bulbs > > > > > > > > > > as 6500K and > they > > > > > > > > > > > aren't. > The > > Kelvin > > > > scale, > > > > > just like Watts > > > > > > > > and > > > > > > > > > Lumens, > > > > > > > > > > are ALL > > > > > > > > > > > universal > and > > > > > > > > > > > > > scientifically > > > > measurable > > > > > scales BUT, as I > > > > > > > > > showed > > > > > > > > > > below, not all > 40 > > watt > > > > > > > > > > > bulbs put > out > > the > > > same > > > > amount > > > > > of light > > > > > > > > (lumens) > > > > > > > > > or in > > > > > > > > > > the same > color > > > > > > > > > > > spectrum > > (Kelvin > > > > rating). All > > > > > 40 watt > > > > > > > > bulbs, > > > > > > > > > whether > > > > > > > > > > incandescent, > > > > > > > > > > > > fluorescent, > > CFL, > > > LED, > > > > > Halogen, etc.... ALL > > > > > > > > use > > > > > > > > > > only/around > 40 > > watts of > > > > > > > > > > > > electricity > > but > > > their > > > > light > > > > > output can vary > > > > > > > > > > dramatically. > This > > is > > > why > > > > > > > > > > > > fluorescent > > bulbs > > > are so > > > > much > > > > > more > > > > > > > > efficient > > > > > > > > > than > > > > > > > > > > incandescent > bulbs > > and > > > > > > > > > > > CFL's > are > > even > > > more > > > > > efficient... as a 40W > > > > > > > > > fluorescent > > > > > > > > > > bulb puts out > a > > LOT > > > > > > > > > > > more > light > > (lumens) > > > than > > > > a 40 > > > > > watt > > > > > > > > incandescent > > > > > > > > > bulb > > > > > > > > > > and a 40W CFL > > > > > > > > > > > puts out > > > > > > > > > > > more > light > > (lumens) > > > than > > > > a > > > > > 40W fluorescent > > > > > > > > bulb. > > > > > > > > > This > > > > > > > > > > is why the > OLD > > > > > > > > > > > "Watts > > > > > > > > > > > Per > Gallon" > > rule > > > simply > > > > does > > > > > not work any > > > > > > > > more. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > BUT.. if > > three > > > > different > > > > > companies are > > > > > > > > selling > > > > > > > > > > standard T-10 > > > fluorescent > > > > > > > > > > > bulbs > with > > the > > > same > > > > exact > > > > > rating of 40W, > > > > > > > > 3550 > > > > > > > > > lumens > > > > > > > > > > and 6500K > > > > > > > > > > > rating... > all > > > > > > > > > > > three of > > those > > > bulbs > > > > should > > > > > be VERY SIMILAR > > > > > > > > if > > > > > > > > > not > > > > > > > > > > identical in > the > > > > > > > > > > > way they > > > > > > > > > > > appear to > our > > eyes > > > > (subject > > > > > to our own > > > > > > > > degree of > > > > > > > > > color > > > > > > > > > > blindness, of > > > > > > > > > > > course!) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > In the > past, > > > things > > > > like > > > > > "soft white", > > > > > > > > "warm > > > > > > > > > white", > > > > > > > > > > "daylight", > "plant > > > > > > > > > > > grow", > etc., > > type > > > terms > > > > were > > > > > used and are > > > > > > > > still > > > > > > > > > used > > > > > > > > > > but those are > just > > > > > > > > > > > simple > words > > (not > > > > subject to > > > > > a scientific > > > > > > > > scale) > > > > > > > > > to > > > > > > > > > > describe the > > Kelvin > > > > > > > > > > > rating > ranges > > but > > > lumens > > > > are > > > > > just as > > > > > > > > important > > > > > > > > > since a > > > > > > > > > > bulb could > have a > > > > > > > > > > > 6500K > rating > > with > > > only > > > > 2200 > > > > > lumens where > > > > > > > > another > > > > > > > > > bulb > > > > > > > > > > could have a > 6500K > > > > > > > > > > > rating > and > > 3550 or > > > 3700 > > > > > lumens and that > > > > > > > > bulb > > > > > > > > > would put > > > > > > > > > > out over 50% > more > > > > > > > > > > > light > (lumens) > > in > > > the > > > > same > > > > > color spectrum > > > > > > > > > (Kelvin > > > > > > > > > > rating) so it > would > > be > > > a > > > > > > > > > > > much > more > > cost > > > effective > > > > bulb > > > > > if it cost > > > > > > > > the > > > > > > > > > same > > > > > > > > > > amount or only > a > > little > > > > > > > > > > > more. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I'm > slightly > > > confused > > > > about > > > > > the "red and > > > > > > > > blue > > > > > > > > > light > > > > > > > > > > for your > plants" > > as > > > > > > > > > > > those > two > > colors > > > are on > > > > > opposite ends of > > > > > > > > the > > > > > > > > > Kelvin > > > > > > > > > > Scale with > reds > > and > > > > > > > > > > > ambers in > the > > > lower > > > > numbers > > > > > and greens and > > > > > > > > blues > > > > > > > > > in > > > > > > > > > > the higher > numbers. > > I > > > > > > > > > > > think > this is > > why > > > you > > > > would > > > > > want a > > > > > > > > mid-range > > > > > > > > > (5000K to > > > > > > > > > > 6500K) bulb > as > > > > > > > > > > > those > > > > > > > > > > > are > generally > > > > considered > > > > > "full spectrum" or > > > > > > > > > "daylight" > > > > > > > > > > bulbs. Here's > a > > > > > > > > > > > color > picture > > of > > > the > > > > Kelvin > > > > > Scale, > > > > > > > > > > > http://www.bltdirect.com/images/colour-temperature.jpg > > > > > > > > > > > <http://www.bltdirect.com/images/colour-temperature.jpg> > > > > > > > <http://www.bltdirect.com/images/colour-temperature.jpg > > > > > > > > > > > <http://www.bltdirect.com/images/colour-temperature.jpg>> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > <http://www.bltdirect.com/images/colour-temperature.jpg > > > > > > > > > > > <http://www.bltdirect.com/images/colour-temperature.jpg> > > > > > > > <http://www.bltdirect.com/images/colour-temperature.jpg > > > > > > > > > > > <http://www.bltdirect.com/images/colour-temperature.jpg>>> > > > > > > > > > > and you can > > > > > > > > > > > visually > > > > > > > > > > > see that > the > > 5000K > > > to > > > > 6500K > > > > > range is all > > > > > > > > about > > > > > > > > > the > > > > > > > > > > same "color". > I > > think > > > > > > > > > > > this is > also > > why > > > > Actinic > > > > > bulbs are usually > > > > > > > > higher > > > > > > > > > and > > > > > > > > > > closer to the > > 10000K > > > > > > > > > > > range > and > > up... > > > > apparently, > > > > > the Kelvin > > > > > > > > lighting > > > > > > > > > scale > > > > > > > > > > can go up to > > 20,000K > > > > > > > > > > > > (according to > > this > > > > article > > > > > about Reef Tanks > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > http://nh.craigslist.org/for/1423072406.html > > > > > > <http://nh.craigslist.org/for/1423072406.html> > > > > > > > <http://nh.craigslist.org/for/1423072406.html > > > > > > <http://nh.craigslist.org/for/1423072406.html>> > > > > > > > > > > > <http://nh.craigslist.org/for/1423072406.html > > > > > > <http://nh.craigslist.org/for/1423072406.html> > > > > > > > <http://nh.craigslist.org/for/1423072406.html > > > > > > <http://nh.craigslist.org/for/1423072406.html>>> > > > > > on, > > > > > > > > > of > > > > > > > > > > all places, > > > > > > > > > > > > Craigslist). > > > > > > > > > > > Here is > the > > page > > > that > > > > that > > > > > the above photo > > > > > > > > link > > > > > > > > > came > > > > > > > > > > from and it > has a > > > > > > > > > > > chart > > > > > > > > > > > that > also > > explains > > > > things a > > > > > little more also > > > > > > > > and > > > > > > > > > talks > > > > > > > > > > about the CRI, > yet > > > > > > > > > > > another > > lighting > > > term > > > > (Color > > > > > Rendition > > > > > > > > Index). > > > > > > > > > > > http://www.bltdirect.com/lampColourTemperatures.php > > > > > > <http://www.bltdirect.com/lampColourTemperatures.php> > > > > > > > <http://www.bltdirect.com/lampColourTemperatures.php > > > > > > <http://www.bltdirect.com/lampColourTemperatures.php>> > > > > > > > > > > > <http://www.bltdirect.com/lampColourTemperatures.php > > > > > > <http://www.bltdirect.com/lampColourTemperatures.php> > > > > > > > <http://www.bltdirect.com/lampColourTemperatures.php > > > > > > <http://www.bltdirect.com/lampColourTemperatures.php>>> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ><br/><br/>(Message over 64 KB, truncated)

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 44481	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 11/12/2009
Subject: Re: wisteria/lighting previous question/response revisited

Well at least I recognize that band ;) LOL Are you under pressure Bill? LOL Amber bill 1433 wrote: > > Ok then here's one worse? > > http://www.aqueonproducts.com/ <http://www.aqueonproducts.com/> > > who is also All-Glass. Wait until you read the funny stuff about > Hoods, lighting and tubes. My hood is their # 21230. Check out tube size! > Check on youtube but would rather be on this one and better yet, it > goes wiwth my current mood! > > http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZHRHc5HmFHg&feature=channel > <http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZHRHc5HmFHg&feature=channel> > > Hey these boys could be neighbors, just accross the top of your state > and a bit toward the west! Don't know about \\Steve// on this one? > > Bill > > --- On Thu, 11/12/09, Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@... > <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com>> wrote: > > > From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@... > <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com>> > > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: wisteria/lighting previous > question/response revisited > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > Date: Thursday, November 12, 2009, 8:59 PM > > OK. I did a Google and DFS > > showed up near the top for an All-Glass > > fluorescent bulb and here's the page and low and behold, > > they have a 24" 17W > > bulb listed... BUT this bulb was not showing up on any > > previous searches on > > DFS. > > > > http://www.drsfostersmith.com/product/prod_display.cfm?pcatid=12850 > <http://www.drsfostersmith.com/product/prod_display.cfm?pcatid=12850> > > > > BUT.... and it's a BIG BUT... (all the way up in the > > "Bertha" category ;-) > > *) > > > > According to that page, it's a T-8 bulb... NOT a T-4 > > bulb. Are you > > confusing radius with diameter? A 1" (T-8) diameter > > bulb would have a 1/2" > > radius so I want to make sure we're still on the right > > track. > > > > Unfortunately, according to the above page, it's an 8000K > > bulb and they do > > not list the lumens. > > > > If you do reach All-Glass, ask them about the lumens on > > that bulb and > > whether it's a T-8 or not. Or maybe if you double > > check your measuring, > > you'll find that it's a 1" diameter and a T-8 bulb. > > I'll be surprised if it > > is a T-4 bulb since I cannot find anything about a T-4 bulb > > matching your > > measurements or wattage. > > > > * BTW... who's now humming > http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VlRXQEA0yj0 > <http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VlRXQEA0yj0> ? I > > know \\Steve// is! ;-) > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed > > on the right > > side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives > > by Year, Month) > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] > > On > > Behalf Of bill 1433 > > Sent: Thursday, November 12, 2009 7:28 PM > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: wisteria/lighting previous > > question/response > > revisited > > > > Hi Len, > > > > I wrote all of this before but with going back and fourth > > so many times > > its more that possible that you missed it. Yes, it's > > a 30" fixture that has > > one > > tube in it at 24" or exactly measurements are 23" end piece > > or band to end > > piece, the tube over-all measure's 23 7/8 from pin edge to > > pin edge. > > > > Now all that being said it is stamped or printed at 17 > > Watts from All-Glass > > and the final piece of the puzzle and probably why none of > > us can find any > > information is what else is stamped or printed on the > > tube: "Made In > > Germany"! > > > > Again, I think we are on "middle ground" with the 23 > > 7/8. It could very > > well be that it is also the 22 5/16 again the "where" and > > whose is doing the > > measuring that counts. Giving all of this a lot of > > thought and the > > aggravation of it all, which is now reaching critical mass, > > I did today come > > one with one lone constructive thought. > > > > How about if I try to give All-Glass a phone call and find > > out just exactly > > what if any tubes can be used with this fixture? I > > thought originally to > > try taking it apart and getting an "eyeball" on the ballast > > but to do so > > could risk damage to the unit as it is stamped or put > > together in spots with > > those flimsy plastic tabs and I really don't want to risk > > the damage to the > > unit. > > > > Next order of business, find a phone number for these > > folks! > > > > Bill > > > > > > --- On Thu, 11/12/09, Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@... > <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com>> > > wrote: > > > > > From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@... > <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com>> > > > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: wisteria/lighting > > previous > > question/response revisited > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > Date: Thursday, November 12, 2009, 5:04 PM > > > Can you show me a link to a T-4, 17W > > > bulb? I haven't found a single one in > > > all the reading that I've been doing. Remind me how > > > long your bulbs are > > > again? I scrolled down looking and didn't see an > > > exact answer. In looking > > > at your link to DFS about your fixture, I see that for > > the > > > 29G/20G, it's 30" > > > long with the 24" bulbs but I wanted to be sure since > > every > > > site I look at > > > for T-4's, they do not come in 17W or 24" length so > > I'm > > > still thinking > > > something is wrong with your calculations or the > > reading of > > > the specs/calcs > > > that you do have. > > > > > > Here are three different sites with their lists of > > T-4 > > > bulbs and as you can > > > see, there are NO 17W bulbs and no 24" bulbs. > > > > > > http://www.lightbulbsdirect.com/page/001/CTGY/T4 > <http://www.lightbulbsdirect.com/page/001/CTGY/T4> > > > http://www.buylighting.com/T4-Fluorescent-s/102.htm > <http://www.buylighting.com/T4-Fluorescent-s/102.htm> > > > > http://www.servicelighting.com/T4-Straight-Linear-Fluorescent-Light-Bulbs > <http://www.servicelighting.com/T4-Straight-Linear-Fluorescent-Light-Bulbs> > > > > > > The closest that T-4's come are 20.5" or 22-5/16" with > > only > > > one type/brand > > > having the 22-5/16" bulb as a specialty bulb and all > > of the > > > other T-4's are > > > 20.5" and then jump up to 33 7/8" or 33.9" depending > > on the > > > site. > > > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are > > listed > > > on the right > > > side, alphabetically under Labels and also under > > Archives > > > by Year, Month) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] > > > On > > > Behalf Of bill 1433 > > > Sent: Thursday, November 12, 2009 3:27 PM > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: wisteria/lighting > > previous > > > question/response > > > revisited > > > > > > Hi Len, > > > > > > Like I said, they are a 1/2" but so far all I can > > find > > > around here > > > are "cool white" and "warm light" bulbs. > > > > > > Bill > > > > > > --- On Thu, 11/12/09, Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@... > <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com>> > > > wrote: > > > > > > > From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@... > <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com>> > > > > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: wisteria/lighting > > > previous > > > question/response revisited > > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > Date: Thursday, November 12, 2009, 3:48 PM > > > > Bulb diameter is easy. Take the > > > > bulb and place it over a ruler/tape > > > > measurer and look straight down on it. It > > should be > > > > easy to discern between > > > > 1/2" (T-4) and 1" (T-8) and the T-5 (5/8") uses > > a > > > > completely different > > > > single pin on each end so that would eliminate > > that > > > > bulb. Or better yet.. > > > > take your bulb to the WalMart and compare apples > > to > > > apples > > > > and you'll then > > > > know exactly what you have and also be able to > > see > > > what > > > > your local WalMart > > > > offers as far as better bulbs. You can probably > > get > > > > much more lighting with > > > > a new $5.00 to $10.00 bulb. > > > > > > > > Then Santa can still bring you the bigger tank > > and > > > > accessories and your > > > > other tanks will also be far more functional in > > case > > > you > > > > choose to sell them > > > > or just have more tanks. As far as selling > > your > > > > unused stuff, > > > > CraigsList.org is free and you can renew the ad > > every > > > week > > > > until you find > > > > the right buyer who is willing to pay the best > > price > > > you > > > > can get. > > > > > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > > (Links to any articles referenced in above reply > > are > > > listed > > > > on the right > > > > side, alphabetically under Labels and also under > > > Archives > > > > by Year, Month) > > > > > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] > > > > On > > > > Behalf Of bill 1433 > > > > Sent: Thursday, November 12, 2009 2:27 PM > > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: wisteria/lighting > > > previous > > > > question/response > > > > revisited > > > > > > > > Bulb Diameter Len, and now you see my problem. > > I > > > > haven't found any either. > > > > Also reading and studying all that you have sent > > me so > > > far > > > > I come away from > > > > all of this with one single thought, is it worth > > > it? > > > > > > > > > > > > With all this being said and it so close to the > > time > > > for a > > > > visit from > > > > "Santa", I'm wondering if I should not put all > > you > > > have > > > > taught me to better > > > > use by just getting something like a standard > > > 55-gallon > > > > tank! These lights > > > > do cost a bit but there is not a huge different > > > between > > > > size vs. cost from a > > > > 29 to a 55. Then to is the issue of what to do > > with > > > > the plastic covers I > > > > already have should I go to the all glass > > covers. > > > > > > > > Sell them, sure but to whom? Remember, I'm the > > guy > > > > that has a hard time > > > > just trying to find a place to buy fish around > > here, > > > there > > > > just aren't that > > > > many places or people. No matter what I do, I > > > promise > > > > to keep you posted. > > > > > > > > Thanks for all you've taught and helped me with, > > > > > > > > Bill > > > > > > > > > > > > --- On Thu, 11/12/09, Lenny V. aka GoldLenny > > <GoldLenny@... <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com>> > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@... > <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com>> > > > > > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: > > wisteria/lighting > > > > previous > > > > question/response revisited > > > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > Date: Thursday, November 12, 2009, 2:42 PM > > > > > Once again Bill.... you need to get > > > > > away from the "Watts" mindset. It's > > > > > just not applicable with the wide array of > > bulbs > > > > available > > > > > nowadays. That > > > > > link goes to a CFL light strip and 65 watts > > of > > > CFL > > > > lighting > > > > > is a LOT, LOT, > > > > > LOT (3 LOTS) more lighting than 65 watts of > > an > > > > incandescent > > > > > bulb and a LOT, > > > > > LOT (2 LOTS) more lighting than a 65W > > normal > > > > fluorescent > > > > > bulb. This would > > > > > probably increase your lighting by 10X's > > over > > > what you > > > > have > > > > > now. If you > > > > > just went with 20W (range) CFL's, you'd get > > > 2-3X's > > > > more > > > > > light than you > > > > > currently have. > > > > > > > > > > You still need to do some more research on > > your > > > > current > > > > > bulbs to find out > > > > > the specs on them. Without knowing your > > > current > > > > > specs, it's difficult to > > > > > know how much more lighting you might > > want/need. > > > > > > > > > > Since you got your fixture and bulbs from > > DFS, I > > > just > > > > did a > > > > > search of '17 > > > > > watt fluorescent' and four bulbs came up.. > > one > > > was a > > > > CFL so > > > > > that wasn't it > > > > > and the other three are below BUT none of > > them > > > are > > > > T-4's... > > > > > in fact, so far, > > > > > I have not been able to find a T-4, 17W > > bulb > > > > > anywhere. What are you > > > > > measuring to come up with the 1/2" > > figure? > > > Bulb > > > > > diameter, pin separation or > > > > > other??? > > > > > > > > > > > http://www.drsfostersmith.com/product/prod_display.cfm?pcatid=3787 > <http://www.drsfostersmith.com/product/prod_display.cfm?pcatid=3787> > > > > > (24", > > > > > T-8, 5500K, nothing for lumens) > > > > > > > > > > > http://www.drsfostersmith.com/product/prod_display.cfm?pcatid=4491 > <http://www.drsfostersmith.com/product/prod_display.cfm?pcatid=4491> > > > > > (24", > > > > > T-8, Actinic 420nm, nothing for lumens) > > > > > > > > > > > http://www.drsfostersmith.com/product/prod_display.cfm?pcatid=4489 > <http://www.drsfostersmith.com/product/prod_display.cfm?pcatid=4489> > > > > > (24", > > > > > T-8, 6500K, nothing for lumens) > > > > > > > > > > You need to take your bulb out and go to a > > local > > > > lighting > > > > > store (department) > > > > > or even the Walmart and see if they can give > > you > > > more > > > > info > > > > > on it or at least > > > > > you might find identical sized bulbs that > > do > > > have > > > > specs on > > > > > them so you can > > > > > be more informed about what you have. > > > > > > > > > > While I was at the DFS site, and since you > > > previously > > > > > mentioned that you > > > > > have an All-Glass hood that came with the > > one > > > bulb > > > > light > > > > > strip, I did a > > > > > search on DFS for 'All-Glass light' and > > found > > > this > > > > link for > > > > > the only single > > > > > bulb light strip that All-Glass has on DFS' > > > site. > > > > > > > > > > > http://www.drsfostersmith.com/product/prod_display.cfm?pcatid=3793 > <http://www.drsfostersmith.com/product/prod_display.cfm?pcatid=3793> > > > > > > > > > > It comes in 16" or 20" lengths. There's a > > link > > > to > > > > > "View compatible Bulbs" > > > > > in the Description tab, which brings up a > > page > > > of > > > > bulbs and > > > > > ALL of the ones > > > > > compatible for the 20" strip are T-8 > > bulbs. > > > There > > > > are > > > > > a couple of dozen > > > > > bulbs listed so I didn't go through them > > and > > > > unfortunately, > > > > > they do NOT list > > > > > the wattage on that list so I wasn't able to > > find > > > any > > > > 17W > > > > > bulbs without > > > > > checking a bunch of links. Since it was > > an > > > > All-Glass > > > > > fixture, I did click > > > > > on the first All-Glass brand bulb which > > brought > > > up > > > > this > > > > > page... > > > > > > > > > > > http://www.drsfostersmith.com/product/prod_display.cfm?pcatid=12850 > <http://www.drsfostersmith.com/product/prod_display.cfm?pcatid=12850> > > > > > > > > > > And you will see that there is either an > > 18", 15W > > > bulb > > > > or a > > > > > 24", 17W bulb, > > > > > as well as others... and these are the > > 8000K > > > bulbs > > > > which > > > > > were listed in the > > > > > description on the website link that you > > posted > > > > earlier > > > > > BUT.. these are ALL > > > > > T-8 bulbs, not T-4's so we're back to that > > spec > > > issue > > > > > again. This page does > > > > > call them 8000K Daylight, Full Spectrum > > bulbs so > > > maybe > > > > they > > > > > are OK but I > > > > > wish that the DFS site would list lumens > > since > > > that is > > > > a > > > > > critical, > > > > > need-to-know piece of information that is > > > missing. > > > > As > > > > > seen in my previous > > > > > posts, the same sized bulbs can have a > > lumen > > > output > > > > that is > > > > > 50% to 100% > > > > > higher than a comparable bulb of the same > > size... > > > and > > > > that > > > > > makes a HUGE > > > > > difference in lighting. > > > > > > > > > > Once again, take the bulb to your WalMart > > and > > > compare > > > > > apples to apples and > > > > > find out exactly what size bulb you have > > and > > > while > > > > there, > > > > > look at other > > > > > identical sized bulbs and look for the > > highest > > > lumens > > > > in > > > > > the 5000K to 6500K > > > > > range, buy one and bring it home and see if > > it's > > > a > > > > LOT > > > > > brighter than what > > > > > you now have. If so, that might do the > > trick. > > > > > > > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > > > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > > > (Links to any articles referenced in above > > reply > > > are > > > > listed > > > > > on the right > > > > > side, alphabetically under Labels and also > > under > > > > Archives > > > > > by Year, Month) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] > > > > > On > > > > > Behalf Of bill 1433 > > > > > Sent: Thursday, November 12, 2009 12:12 PM > > > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: > > wisteria/lighting > > > > previous > > > > > question/response > > > > > revisited > > > > > > > > > > Hi Amber, > > > > > > > > > > The links Len provided are very close BUT > > it's > > > the > > > > ends of > > > > > the tube or pins > > > > > that worry me. They are very close but > > "how"? > > > > > > > > > > Meaning this buying the tube, ok by mail? > > Now > > > what > > > > if > > > > > it doesn't work? > > > > > Rreturn a $10.00 tube the postage would > > cost > > > more. > > > > > I'm trying to work > > > > > backward now from Len's link, and get a > > > manufacture so > > > > I > > > > > can buy around > > > > > here. Also I'm getting made enough now to > > > scrape > > > > the > > > > > whole thing and just > > > > > get a new All-Glass cover then maybe one of > > > these: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > http://www.drsfostersmith.com/product/prod_display.cfm?c=3578+3733+9654+9871 > <http://www.drsfostersmith.com/product/prod_display.cfm?c=3578+3733+9654+9871> > > > > > &pcatid=9871 > > > > > > > > > > This link is not pointing to the exact > > Coralife > > > > product I > > > > > want at Doctors > > > > > its # apn-16981, if you have their catalog > > but I > > > can't > > > > make > > > > > it come up on > > > > > search at their site. It is a single rated > > at > > > 65 > > > > > watts and is 24". > > > > > > > > > > Bill > > > > > --- On Thu, 11/12/09, Amber Berglund <arberglund@... > <mailto:arberglund%40gmail.com>> > > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > From: Amber Berglund <arberglund@... > <mailto:arberglund%40gmail.com>> > > > > > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: > > > wisteria/lighting > > > > > previous > > > > > question/response revisited > > > > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > Date: Thursday, November 12, 2009, > > 12:59 PM > > > > > > Bill does have T-4's if I remember > > > > > > correctly, maybe one of those 20watt > > > > > > bulbs will work for him and provide > > more > > > lumens > > > > than > > > > > his > > > > > > current bulbs do. > > > > > > Did you check those links out Bill? ;) > > > > > > > > > > > > Amber > > > > > > > > > > > > Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Just because a fixture currently > > has a > > > T-8 > > > > or > > > > > T-10, > > > > > > does not mean it > > > > > > > cannot > > > > > > > use a T-12, and vice versa. They > > are > > > all > > > > medium > > > > > bi-pin > > > > > > bulbs, meaning they > > > > > > > all will fit and work UNLESS the > > > reflector > > > > is so > > > > > tight > > > > > > that a T-12 cannot > > > > > > > fit inside the fixture but I > > haven't > > > seen > > > > this as > > > > > a > > > > > > problem in the past. > > > > > > > Usually, going with a T-8 or > > T-10, > > > instead > > > > of a > > > > > T-12 > > > > > > will give more lumens > > > > > > > but in the case of this > > particular > > > sized > > > > bulb, > > > > > the > > > > > > T-12 may be the better > > > > > > > option. Of course, we still need > > more > > > > details on > > > > > > Bill's exact bulb. We > > > > > > > still do not know anything except > > that > > > it's > > > > 17 > > > > > > watts... nothing about > > > > > > > lumens, K rating or anything else > > for > > > > comparison > > > > > > purposes. As Johnny 5 > > > > > > > once > > > > > > > said... "Need more input!" (I have > > no > > > clue > > > > why > > > > > that > > > > > > OLD movie line popped > > > > > > > into my head and I can't blame it > > on > > > drugs > > > > since > > > > > I > > > > > > didn't/don't do them... > > > > > > > and as far as I know, beer > > doesn't > > > cause > > > > acid > > > > > > flashbacks. LOL > > > > > > > http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Short_Circuit > <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Short_Circuit> > > > > > > > <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Short_Circuit > <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Short_Circuit>>) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Now... thinking back a little. > > Bill > > > may > > > > have > > > > > T-4's and > > > > > > if he does, those > > > > > > > use the miniature bi-pin base and > > the > > > above > > > > > larger > > > > > > T-#'s with medium > > > > > > > bi-pin > > > > > > > base would not work. If this is > > the > > > case, > > > > there > > > > > are > > > > > > other options > > > > > > > listed on > > > > > > > this page... > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > http://www.servicelighting.com/T4-Straight-Linear-Fluorescent-Light-Bulbs > <http://www.servicelighting.com/T4-Straight-Linear-Fluorescent-Light-Bulbs> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > <http://www.servicelighting.com/T4-Straight-Linear-Fluorescent-Light-Bulbs > <http://www.servicelighting.com/T4-Straight-Linear-Fluorescent-Light-Bulbs>> > > > > > > > including this 20W, 6400K, 1340 > > Lumens > > > bulb > > > > - > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > http://www.servicelighting.com/Bulbrite-85220-F20T4-64K-F20T4-D-T4-Straight- > <http://www.servicelighting.com/Bulbrite-85220-F20T4-64K-F20T4-D-T4-Straight-> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > <http://www.servicelighting.com/Bulbrite-85220-F20T4-64K-F20T4-D-T4-Straight > <http://www.servicelighting.com/Bulbrite-85220-F20T4-64K-F20T4-D-T4-Straight> > > > > > -> > > > > > > > Linear-Fluorescent-Light-Bulb, > > which > > > sounds > > > > like > > > > > a > > > > > > pretty good bulb > > > > > > > from the > > > > > > > specs and actually provides more > > lumens > > > than > > > > any > > > > > of > > > > > > the T-12's previously > > > > > > > listed. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > > > > > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>> > > > > > > > (Links to any articles referenced > > in > > > above > > > > reply > > > > > are > > > > > > listed on the right > > > > > > > side, alphabetically under Labels > > and > > > also > > > > under > > > > > > Archives by Year, Month) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > > > > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > > > > > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On > > > > > > > Behalf Of Amber Berglund > > > > > > > Sent: Thursday, November 12, 2009 > > 10:29 > > > AM > > > > > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: > > > > wisteria/lighting > > > > > > previous > > > > > > > question/response > > > > > > > revisited > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Bill has smaller bulbs, I think > > they > > > are not > > > > easy > > > > > to > > > > > > find in a higher > > > > > > > wattage output, which is what he > > was > > > looking > > > > for > > > > > a few > > > > > > months back. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Amber > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I don't know what you mean > > by > > > this. > > > > Please > > > > > > elaborate. What size tube? > > > > > > > > I posted about several > > different > > > bulbs > > > > but > > > > > all > > > > > > were T-12's, which is > > > > > > > > one of the most common > > sizes. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > > > > > > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > > > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>> > > > > > > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>>> > > > > > > > (Links to any articles referenced > > in > > > > > > > > above reply are listed on > > the > > > right > > > > side, > > > > > > alphabetically under Labels > > > > > > > > and also under Archives by > > Year, > > > > Month) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > > > > > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On > > > > > > Behalf Of bill 1433 > > > > > > > > Sent: Thursday, November 12, > > 2009 > > > 8:59 > > > > AM > > > > > > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] > > Re: > > > > > wisteria/lighting > > > > > > previous > > > > > > > > question/response revisited > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Yes Len, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > But its finding that size > > tube > > > with > > > > more of > > > > > > anything that's the problem. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Bill > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > --- On Wed, 11/11/09, Lenny > > V. > > > aka > > > > > GoldLenny > > > > > > <GoldLenny@... <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com> > > > > > > > > > > > > <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com>> > > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > From: Lenny V. aka > > GoldLenny > > > > <GoldLenny@... <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com> > > > > > > > > > > > > <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com>> > > > > > > > > > Subject: RE: > > [AquaticLife] > > > Re: > > > > > > wisteria/lighting previous > > > > > > > > > question/response > > revisited > > > > > > > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > > > Date: Wednesday, > > November > > > 11, > > > > 2009, > > > > > 5:22 PM > > > > > > Well, if you only have > > > > > > > > > 17W, then you could > > > definitely do > > > > > better > > > > > > with the 20W, higher lumen, > > > > > > > > > better K rating bulbs > > that I > > > > > mentioned. > > > > > > Considering the lumen > > > > > > > > > ratings of fluorescent > > bulbs > > > I've > > > > > looked at, > > > > > > your 17W bulbs might > > > > > > > > > only have 500-700 > > lumens > > > where the > > > > BEST > > > > > 20W > > > > > > bulb (below) has > > > > > > > > > 1075 lumens so you > > > > > > > > > could possibly increase > > your > > > > lighting > > > > > by 50% > > > > > > to 100% just by > > > > > > > > > changing to that bulb. > > At > > > least, > > > > with > > > > > that > > > > > > bulb, you'll be in the > > > > > > > > > low-light range for > > plants on > > > the > > > > 20G > > > > > but > > > > > > the 29G will need some work. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Of course, you should > > find > > > out > > > > what > > > > > the > > > > > > lumens and K ratings are on > > > > > > > > > the bulbs you have so > > you'll > > > know > > > > if > > > > > you are > > > > > > getting a small jump or > > > > > > > > > a BIG jump in lighting > > just > > > by > > > > changing > > > > > your > > > > > > bulbs. Check your local > > > > > > > > > WalMart for bulbs. My > > nearby > > > > WalMart > > > > > > SuperCenter has a really big > > > > > > > > > assortment of > > fluorescent > > > tubes > > > > and > > > > > they > > > > > > were cheaper than the Home > > > > > > > > > Depot. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Something else I'm > > thinking > > > about > > > > for > > > > > you is > > > > > > going with 18" > > > > > > > > > light-sticks on > > > > > > > > > each end of your 29G > > tank or > > > front > > > > or > > > > > back > > > > > > (back would hide it best > > > > > > > > > but you decide your > > best > > > > aesthetics) > > > > > and > > > > > > you'd have to make a DIY > > > > > > > > > reflector for it (white > > > poster > > > > board > > > > > and > > > > > > scotch tape would work) and > > > > > > > > > that would get more > > lighting > > > down > > > > to > > > > > the > > > > > > bottom level plants in the > > > > > > > > > 29G. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > > > > > > > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > > > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>> > > > > > > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>>> > > > > > > > (Links to any articles > > > > > > > > > referenced in above > > reply > > > are > > > > listed on > > > > > the > > > > > > right side, > > > > > > > > > alphabetically under > > Labels > > > and > > > > also > > > > > under > > > > > > Archives by Year, Month) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -----Original > > Message----- > > > > > > > > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > > > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] > > > > > > > > > On > > > > > > > > > Behalf Of bill 1433 > > > > > > > > > Sent: Wednesday, > > November 11, > > > 2009 > > > > 3:42 > > > > > PM > > > > > > > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > > > Subject: RE: > > [AquaticLife] > > > Re: > > > > > > wisteria/lighting previous > > > > > > > > > question/response > > revisited > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > It is what it is type > > of > > > thing > > > > Len. > > > > > Site > > > > > > says one thing but stamped > > > > > > > > > or printed right on the > > tube > > > is at > > > > 17 > > > > > > watts. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Bill > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > --- On Wed, 11/11/09, > > Lenny > > > V. > > > > aka > > > > > GoldLenny > > > > > > <GoldLenny@... <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com> > > > > > > > > > > > > <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com>> > > > > > > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > From: Lenny V. aka > > > GoldLenny > > > > > <GoldLenny@... <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com> > > > > > > > > > > > > <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com>> > > > > > > > > > > Subject: RE: > > > [AquaticLife] > > > > Re: > > > > > > wisteria/lighting > > > > > > > > > previous > > > > > > > > > > question/response > > > revisited > > > > > > > > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > > > > Date: Wednesday, > > > November > > > > 11, > > > > > 2009, > > > > > > 2:16 PM The > > > > > > > > > problem might be this > > > > > > > > > > statement in the > > > > description... > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > "... Hoods include > > > 8000ºK > > > > > bulb... > > > > > > ...20W, 24"..." > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > That's getting into > > the > > > > higher > > > > > > green/blue Kelvin > > > > > > > > > range... > > > > > > > > > > closer to the > > > > > > > > > > 10,000K actinic > > type > > > bulbs... > > > > than > > > > > the > > > > > > 5000K to 6500K > > > > > > > > > "Daylight" bulbs > > > > > > > > > > that provide full > > > spectrum > > > > > lighting. > > > > > > It's also only > > > > > > > > > a 20W bulb > > > > > > > > > > (according to the > > DFS > > > site, > > > > > although > > > > > > you stated it was > > > > > > > > > only 17W so > > > > > > > > > > double check this) > > so > > > it's > > > > only > > > > > 1WPG on > > > > > > the 20G and > > > > > > > > > only 0.69WPG on > > > > > > > > > > the 29G. Of course, > > if > > > the > > > > bulb > > > > > puts > > > > > > out a LOT more > > > > > > > > > lumens (you would > > > > > > > > > > have to do more > > checking > > > up > > > > on the > > > > > bulb > > > > > > to find this), > > > > > > > > > that would help > > > > > > > > > > a little but not > > much. > > > I > > > > think you > > > > > need > > > > > > at least > > > > > > > > > 1WPG to have success > > > > > > > > > > with low-light > > plants, > > > > although > > > > > > floating plants like > > > > > > > > > Anacharis, > > > > > > > > > > Hornwort, > > Duckweed, > > > etc., > > > > would be > > > > > up > > > > > > close to the > > > > > > > > > light and benefit > > > > > > > > > > from CO2 from the > > air > > > and > > > > would do > > > > > OK > > > > > > with your > > > > > > > > > lighting... but then > > > > > > > > > > they would also > > block > > > out > > > > the > > > > > lighting > > > > > > to the rest of > > > > > > > > > the tank. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I don't see a lot > > of > > > options, > > > > as > > > > > far as > > > > > > T-8 bulbs are > > > > > > > > > concerned for > > > > > > > > > > this size fixture > > but I > > > see a > > > > few > > > > > > different T-12's... > > > > > > > > > such as... > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > (My rating is: GOOD > > - > > > but > > > > see > > > > > BETTER > > > > > > and BEST options > > > > > > > > > below... at > > > > > > > > > > least as far as > > the > > > bulbs on > > > > this > > > > > site > > > > > > are concerned) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > http://www.servicelighting.com/Sylvania-22119-F20T12-DSGN50-T12-Straig > <http://www.servicelighting.com/Sylvania-22119-F20T12-DSGN50-T12-Straig> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > <http://www.servicelighting.com/Sylvania-22119-F20T12-DSGN50-T12-Straig > <http://www.servicelighting.com/Sylvania-22119-F20T12-DSGN50-T12-Straig>> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > <http://www.servicelighting.com/Sylvania-22119-F20T12-DSGN50-T12-Strai > <http://www.servicelighting.com/Sylvania-22119-F20T12-DSGN50-T12-Strai> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > <http://www.servicelighting.com/Sylvania-22119-F20T12-DSGN50-T12-Strai > <http://www.servicelighting.com/Sylvania-22119-F20T12-DSGN50-T12-Strai>> > > > > > > > > g> > > > > > > > > > > ht-Lin > > > > > > > > > > > > > ear-Fluorescent-Light-Bulb > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Light Output: 880 > > > lumens > > > > > > > > > > Refers to the > > literal > > > measure > > > > of > > > > > the > > > > > > light-output of a > > > > > > > > > particular > > > > > > > > > > light bulb, > > measured in > > > the > > > > number > > > > > of > > > > > > lumens. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Energy Used: 20 > > watts > > > > > > > > > > "Watts" is the > > term > > > applied > > > > to > > > > > the > > > > > > amount of energy > > > > > > > > > required and used > > > > > > > > > > by a particular > > light > > > bulb. > > > > It is > > > > > an > > > > > > international > > > > > > > > > system unit of > > > > > > > > > > power equal to one > > joule > > > per > > > > > second. > > > > > > Contrary to > > > > > > > > > popular belief, the > > > > > > > > > > wattage of a bulb > > does > > > not > > > > > directly > > > > > > measure the > > > > > > > > > brightness; the > > > > > > > > > > "lumens" of a light > > is > > > what > > > > > defines the > > > > > > actual light > > > > > > > > > output. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Average Lifetime: > > 9,000 > > > > hours > > > > > > > > > > This refers to an > > > average > > > > > lifetime > > > > > > rating based on > > > > > > > > > large quantities in > > > > > > > > > > test groups. This > > > testing > > > > takes > > > > > into > > > > > > account usage of > > > > > > > > > 3 hours per > > > > > > > > > > start for > > fluorescent > > > lamps > > > > and > > > > > 10 > > > > > > hours per start for > > > > > > > > > HID lamps. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Bulb Type: T12 > > > > > > > > > > The "Bulb Type" is > > > typically > > > > a > > > > > > combination of the > > > > > > > > > style of bulb as > > > > > > > > > > well as the width > > of > > > the > > > > bulb. > > > > > Usually, > > > > > > the first > > > > > > > > > couple letters will > > > > > > > > > > indicate the type; > > "G" > > > would > > > > > indicate > > > > > > "Globe", "PAR" > > > > > > > > > would indicate > > > > > > > > > > "Parabolic > > Reflector"... > > > The > > > > > numbers > > > > > > indicate the > > > > > > > > > diameter of the > > > > > > > > > > light bulb in > > eighths of > > > an > > > > inch; > > > > > a > > > > > > "G40" would be a > > > > > > > > > "Globe" style > > > > > > > > > > that is "5 inches" > > in > > > > diameter. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Base Type: Medium > > > Bi-Pin > > > > > > > > > > The "Base" of a > > light > > > bulb is > > > > the > > > > > part > > > > > > that either > > > > > > > > > screws or snaps > > > > > > > > > > into a receptacle. > > Base > > > Type > > > > > > terminology may indicate > > > > > > > > > common > > > > > > > > > > descriptive words > > like > > > > "Medium" > > > > > or > > > > > > "Candelabra", or > > > > > > > > > may even contain > > > > > > > > > > numeric codes that > > > signify > > > > size > > > > > and > > > > > > variety, like > > > > > > > > > "E26" or "2GX13". > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Color Temperature: > > > 5,000K > > > > > > > > > > Correlated Color > > > Temperature > > > > (CCT) > > > > > is a > > > > > > specification > > > > > > > > > of the color > > > > > > > > > > appearance of a > > lamp, > > > > relating > > > > > its > > > > > > color to that of a > > > > > > > > > reference source > > > > > > > > > > heated to a > > particular > > > > > temperature, > > > > > > measured in > > > > > > > > > degrees Kelvin (K). It > > > > > > > > > > generally measures > > the > > > > "warmth" > > > > > or > > > > > > "coolness" of light > > > > > > > > > source > > > > > > > > > > appearance. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > CRI: 90 > > > > > > > > > > CRI refers to the > > > "Color > > > > > Rendering > > > > > > Index" of a light > > > > > > > > > bulb. > > > > > > > > > > CRI measures a > > > > > > > > > > light source and > > grades > > > its > > > > > ability to > > > > > > render the > > > > > > > > > color of objects > > > > > > > > > > "correctly," as > > compared > > > with > > > > a > > > > > > reference source with > > > > > > > > > comparable color > > > > > > > > > > temperature. 100 > > is > > > perfect > > > > > rendering. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Length: 24 inches > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > (BETTER - slightly > > > higher > > > > lumens > > > > > and > > > > > > higher 6500K > > > > > > > > > rating) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > http://www.servicelighting.com/Westinghouse-36516-F20T12-FS-T12-Straig > <http://www.servicelighting.com/Westinghouse-36516-F20T12-FS-T12-Straig> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > <http://www.servicelighting.com/Westinghouse-36516-F20T12-FS-T12-Straig > <http://www.servicelighting.com/Westinghouse-36516-F20T12-FS-T12-Straig>> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > <http://www.servicelighting.com/Westinghouse-36516-F20T12-FS-T12-Strai > <http://www.servicelighting.com/Westinghouse-36516-F20T12-FS-T12-Strai> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > <http://www.servicelighting.com/Westinghouse-36516-F20T12-FS-T12-Strai > <http://www.servicelighting.com/Westinghouse-36516-F20T12-FS-T12-Strai>> > > > > > > > > g> > > > > > > > > > > ht-Lin > > > > > > > > > > > > > ear-Fluorescent-Light-Bulb > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Light Output: 900 > > > lumens > > > > > > > > > > Energy Used: 20 > > watts > > > > > > > > > > Average Lifetime: > > > 10,000 > > > > hours > > > > > > > > > > Bulb Type: T12 > > > > > > > > > > Base Type: Medium > > > Bi-Pin > > > > > > > > > > Color Temperature: > > > 6,500K > > > > > > > > > > CRI: 90 > > > > > > > > > > Length: 24 inches > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > (BEST, of these > > three - > > > > around > > > > > 20% > > > > > > higher lumens and > > > > > > > > > good 6,500K > > > > > > > > > > rating, although it > > does > > > have > > > > a > > > > > lower > > > > > > CRI rating.. but > > > > > > > > > still > > > > > > > > > > passing) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > http://www.servicelighting.com/Sylvania-22083-F20T12-D-T12-Straight-Li > <http://www.servicelighting.com/Sylvania-22083-F20T12-D-T12-Straight-Li> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > <http://www.servicelighting.com/Sylvania-22083-F20T12-D-T12-Straight-Li > <http://www.servicelighting.com/Sylvania-22083-F20T12-D-T12-Straight-Li>> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > <http://www.servicelighting.com/Sylvania-22083-F20T12-D-T12-Straight-L > <http://www.servicelighting.com/Sylvania-22083-F20T12-D-T12-Straight-L> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > <http://www.servicelighting.com/Sylvania-22083-F20T12-D-T12-Straight-L > <http://www.servicelighting.com/Sylvania-22083-F20T12-D-T12-Straight-L>> > > > > > > > > i> > > > > > > > > > > near-F > > > > > > > > > > > > luorescent-Light-Bulb > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Light Output: > > 1,075 > > > lumens > > > > > > > > > > Energy Used: 20 > > watts > > > > > > > > > > Average Lifetime: > > 9,000 > > > > hours > > > > > > > > > > Bulb Type: T12 > > > > > > > > > > Base Type: Medium > > > Bi-Pin > > > > > > > > > > Color Temperature: > > > 6,500K > > > > > > > > > > CRI: 76 > > > > > > > > > > Length: 24 inches > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Compare the above > > three > > > to > > > > what is > > > > > sold > > > > > > as a > > > > > > > > > plant/aquarium light by > > > > > > > > > > the same company, > > which > > > has > > > > a > > > > > lower > > > > > > lumens, MUCH lower > > > > > > > > > CRI rating and > > > > > > > > > > does not list the > > K > > > rating > > > > other > > > > > than > > > > > > to say "Plant" > > > > > > > > > which is a > > > > > > > > > > subjective rating > > > established > > > > by > > > > > the > > > > > > manufacturer. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > (WORST) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > http://www.servicelighting.com/Westinghouse-36411-F20T12-PL-T12-Straig > <http://www.servicelighting.com/Westinghouse-36411-F20T12-PL-T12-Straig> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > <http://www.servicelighting.com/Westinghouse-36411-F20T12-PL-T12-Straig > <http://www.servicelighting.com/Westinghouse-36411-F20T12-PL-T12-Straig>> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > <http://www.servicelighting.com/Westinghouse-36411-F20T12-PL-T12-Strai > <http://www.servicelighting.com/Westinghouse-36411-F20T12-PL-T12-Strai> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > <http://www.servicelighting.com/Westinghouse-36411-F20T12-PL-T12-Strai > <http://www.servicelighting.com/Westinghouse-36411-F20T12-PL-T12-Strai>> > > > > > > > > g> > > > > > > > > > > ht-Lin > > > > > > > > > > > > > ear-Fluorescent-Light-Bulb > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Light Output: 700 > > > lumens > > > > (over 30% > > > > > less > > > > > > lighting > > > > > > > > > than the 1,075 > > > > > > > > > > lumens bulb > > > > > > > > > > above) > > > > > > > > > > Energy Used: 20 > > watts > > > > > > > > > > Average Lifetime: > > > 10,000 > > > > hours > > > > > > > > > > Bulb Type: T12 > > > > > > > > > > Base Type: Medium > > > Bi-Pin > > > > > > > > > > Color: Plant > > > > > > > > > > CRI: 61 > > > > > > > > > > Length: 24 inches > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > If any of the > > above > > > have > > > > much > > > > > better > > > > > > lumens than your > > > > > > > > > current > > > > > > > > > > lighting... > > > > > > > > > > and they all have > > better > > > K > > > > > ratings, > > > > > > then any of them > > > > > > > > > would be better > > > > > > > > > > for you... but you > > > would > > > > still be > > > > > stuck > > > > > > with only 20 > > > > > > > > > watts but it's > > > > > > > > > > the LUMENS and K > > rating > > > that > > > > count > > > > > more > > > > > > than watts. > > > > > > > > > You need to find > > > > > > > > > > out the lumens on > > your > > > bulb. > > > > Try > > > > > to > > > > > > find it on the > > > > > > > > > DFS site and let > > > > > > > > > > us know. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > You should look at > > the > > > > > AHSupply.com > > > > > > place for a > > > > > > > > > retrofit kit so you > > > > > > > > > > can use CFL's in > > your > > > > current > > > > > hood. > > > > > > That would > > > > > > > > > probably be your least > > > > > > > > > > expensive option. I > > know > > > you > > > > don't > > > > > like > > > > > > electricity > > > > > > > > > but I'm sure you > > > > > > > > > > know someone that > > could > > > do > > > > this > > > > > for > > > > > > you... on the > > > > > > > > > cheap... or over a > > > > > > > > > > 6-pack. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > > > > > > > > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > > > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>> > > > > > > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>>> > > > > > > > (Links to > > > > > > > > > any articles > > > > > > > > > > referenced in > > above > > > reply > > > > are > > > > > listed on > > > > > > the right > > > > > > > > > side, alphabetically > > > > > > > > > > under Labels and > > also > > > under > > > > > Archives by > > > > > > Year, Month) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -----Original > > > Message----- > > > > > > > > > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > > > > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] > > > > > > > > > > On > > > > > > > > > > Behalf Of bill > > 1433 > > > > > > > > > > Sent: Wednesday, > > > November 11, > > > > 2009 > > > > > 9:33 > > > > > > AM > > > > > > > > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > > > > Subject: RE: > > > [AquaticLife] > > > > Re: > > > > > > wisteria/lighting > > > > > > > > > previous > > > > > > > > > > question/response > > > > > > > > > > revisited > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Hi \\Steve// > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > At this point, and > > also > > > to > > > > refresh > > > > > your > > > > > > mind, and > > > > > > > > > anyone > > > > > > > > > > else on the group > > > > > > > > > > that may have > > interest. > > > This > > > > all > > > > > got > > > > > > started with > > > > > > > > > my > > > > > > > > > > search for a tube > > that > > > > > > > > > > would allow me > > more > > > light > > > > output > > > > > from > > > > > > an All Glass > > > > > > > > > Plastic > > > > > > > > > > hood and light. > > > > > > > > > > This unit comes > > with a > > > "color > > > > type > > > > > tube > > > > > > at 17 watts > > > > > > > > > that is > > > > > > > > > > only 24 inches > > > > > > > > > > long. This is for > > a > > > > 20/29-gallon > > > > > tank. > > > > > > I was stupid enough to buy > > > > > > > > > > two of them, one > > for > > > each > > > > tank. > > > > > For > > > > > > further inspection > > > > > > > > > here > > > > > > > > > > is the light: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > http://www.drsfostersmith.com/product/prod_display.cfm?pcatid=13447 > <http://www.drsfostersmith.com/product/prod_display.cfm?pcatid=13447> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > <http://www.drsfostersmith.com/product/prod_display.cfm?pcatid=13447 > <http://www.drsfostersmith.com/product/prod_display.cfm?pcatid=13447>> > > > > > > > > > > > > <http://www.drsfostersmith.com/product/prod_display.cfm?pcatid=13447 > <http://www.drsfostersmith.com/product/prod_display.cfm?pcatid=13447> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > <http://www.drsfostersmith.com/product/prod_display.cfm?pcatid=13447 > <http://www.drsfostersmith.com/product/prod_display.cfm?pcatid=13447>>> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > For those that > > would > > > like to > > > > > aggravate > > > > > > themselves > > > > > > > > > further, > > > > > > > > > > I can also state > > > > > > > > > > that these hoods > > are > > > very > > > > > conducive to > > > > > > growing Black Algae! > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Summoning up, I > > should > > > have > > > > only > > > > > > purchased an > > > > > > > > > All-Glass > > > > > > > > > > cover and then > > > > > > > > > > probably a double > > tube > > > light > > > > of > > > > > > sufficient wattage to > > > > > > > > > bring > > > > > > > > > > me up to the > > > > > > > > > > recommended 2 or 3 > > watts > > > per > > > > > gallon. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Ya live and learn, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Bill > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > --- On Tue, > > 11/10/09, > > > Steve > > > > Szabo > > > > > > <steve@... <mailto:steve%40familyszabo.com> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > <mailto:steve%40familyszabo.com> > > > > > > > > > > > > <mailto:steve%40familyszabo.com>> > > > > > > > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > From: Steve > > Szabo > > > <steve@... <mailto:steve%40familyszabo.com> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > <mailto:steve%40familyszabo.com> > > > > > > > > > > > > <mailto:steve%40familyszabo.com>> > > > > > > > > > > > Subject: RE: > > > > [AquaticLife] > > > > > Re: > > > > > > wisteria/lighting > > > > > > > > > > previous > > > > > > > > > > > > > question/response > > > > revisited > > > > > > > > > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > > > > > Date: > > Tuesday, > > > November > > > > 10, > > > > > 2009, > > > > > > 11:50 PM Bill, > > > > > > > > > you > > > > > > > > > > got it right! The > > > > > > > > > > > T numbers > > represent > > > the > > > > > diameter > > > > > > of the bulb in > > > > > > > > > 1/8" > > > > > > > > > > increments. A T4 > > > > > > > > > > > is a bulb 1/2" > > in > > > > diameter, > > > > > T5 is > > > > > > 5/8", t8 is > > > > > > > > > 1" and > > > > > > > > > > a t12 is 1 1/2". > > > > > > > > > > > As I recall, > > the F > > > is > > > > the > > > > > wattage > > > > > > of the bulb. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Lumens, not > > > usually > > > > stated on > > > > > the > > > > > > bulb is the > > > > > > > > > actual > > > > > > > > > > amount of light > > > > > > > > > > > coming from > > the > > > bulb. > > > > It > > > > > really > > > > > > does not have > > > > > > > > > anything > > > > > > > > > > to do with > > > > > > > > > > > watts, though > > more > > > watts > > > > will > > > > > give > > > > > > you more > > > > > > > > > lumens, > > > > > > > > > > but, also the > > > > > > > > > > > phosphors used > > in > > > the > > > > bulb > > > > > affect > > > > > > the amount of > > > > > > > > > lumen > > > > > > > > > > output. Lumens > > > > > > > > > > > and lux are > > often > > > used > > > > > > interchangeably, but they > > > > > > > > > are > > > > > > > > > > really different > > > > > > > > > > > measurements. > > Lux > > > is > > > > the > > > > > measure > > > > > > of illumination > > > > > > > > > over > > > > > > > > > > a given area. It > > > > > > > > > > > may actually > > be > > > more > > > > > important to > > > > > > aquarists > > > > > > > > > raising > > > > > > > > > > plants than the > > > > > > > > > > > lumen output. > > Lux > > > is > > > > what is > > > > > > measured by a light > > > > > > > > > > meter, for anyone > > who > > > > > > > > > > > happens to > > know > > > what > > > > they > > > > > are--not > > > > > > often seen > > > > > > > > > with > > > > > > > > > > today's cameras > > and > > > > > > > > > > > > > photographers. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Color > > temperature > > > is > > > > > important. > > > > > > Average daylight > > > > > > > > > > (except may in > > > > > > > > > > > Amber's area > > where > > > they > > > > have > > > > > 6 > > > > > > months of > > > > > > > > > darkness) has > > > > > > > > > > a color > > > > > > > > > > > temperature > > of > > > > 5500-6000. > > > > > > > > > > > An overcast > > day can > > > have > > > > a > > > > > color > > > > > > temperature of > > > > > > > > > 6500. > > > > > > > > > > As mentioned > > > > > > > > > > > earlier, > > plants > > > need > > > > light in > > > > > two > > > > > > color > > > > > > > > > spectrums, > > > > > > > > > > and, actually they > > > > > > > > > > > are rather > > narrow > > > spans > > > > of > > > > > > wavelengths they > > > > > > > > > benefit > > > > > > > > > > from. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I thought I > > had a > > > > bookmark > > > > > > explaining this, but > > > > > > > > > I > > > > > > > > > > can't find it > > > > > > > > > > > quickly (over > > 400K > > > of > > > > > bookmarks, > > > > > > and things have > > > > > > > > > a > > > > > > > > > > tendency to get > > > > > > > > > > > lost), > > however, > > > some > > > > > judicial > > > > > > Googling will gain > > > > > > > > > you > > > > > > > > > > the information. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > \\Steve// > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -----Original > > > > Message----- > > > > > > > > > > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > > > > > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] > > > > > > > > > > > On > > > > > > > > > > > Behalf Of > > bill > > > 1433 > > > > > > > > > > > Sent: > > Tuesday, > > > November > > > > 10, > > > > > 2009 > > > > > > 10:20 PM > > > > > > > > > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > > > > > Subject: Re: > > > > [AquaticLife] > > > > > Re: > > > > > > wisteria/lighting > > > > > > > > > > previous > > > > > > > > > > > > > question/response > > > > revisited > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Yes, Amber > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > It was I, > > looking > > > for > > > > the > > > > > original > > > > > > information > > > > > > > > > and > > > > > > > > > > also looked back > > on > > > > > > > > > > > \\Steve//'s > > post > > > at > > > > group to > > > > > try > > > > > > and find. Ray > > > > > > > > > had > > > > > > > > > > mentioned all this > > > > > > > > > > > the other day > > > saying > > > > that he > > > > > > thought the posting > > > > > > > > > came > > > > > > > > > > from \\Steve//. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I was not > > > successful in > > > > my > > > > > search. > > > > > > Also, for me > > > > > > > > > the > > > > > > > > > > most important > > > > > > > > > > > part was a > > link to > > > a > > > > chart > > > > > which > > > > > > showed you > > > > > > > > > exactly, > > > > > > > > > > or explained > > > > > > > > > > > exactly the > > "T" > > > > > > > > > > > factor stands > > for. > > > For > > > > > instance, > > > > > > T-4 would be a > > > > > > > > > tube > > > > > > > > > > that is a half > > > > > > > > > > > inch wide, or > > close > > > to > > > > > > it-----------I think. > > > > > > > > > All > > > > > > > > > > this is my own > > > > > > > > > > > fault. In my > > > interest > > > > to > > > > > acquire > > > > > > and learn > > > > > > > > > about > > > > > > > > > > lighting,I went > > > > > > > > > > > through and > > studied > > > the > > > > > applied > > > > > > links but being > > > > > > > > > > ol'bill, I never > > > > > > > > > > > bookmarked > > them. > > > > > > > > > > > Then to > > further > > > > > > > > > > > compound the > > > problem, I > > > > > deleted > > > > > > the original > > > > > > > > > message > > > > > > > > > > that it came > > > > > > > > > > > from. In > > hind-sight > > > you > > > > > could > > > > > > probably chalk > > > > > > > > > this > > > > > > > > > > all up to > > felonious > > > > > > > > > > > stupidity on > > my > > > part. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Bill---where > > its > > > always > > > > a > > > > > good day > > > > > > if I learn > > > > > > > > > > something new! > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > --- On Tue, > > > 11/10/09, > > > > Amber > > > > > > Berglund <arberglund@... <mailto:arberglund%40gmail.com> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > <mailto:arberglund%40gmail.com> > > > > > > > > > > > > <mailto:arberglund%40gmail.com>> > > > > > > > > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > From: Amber > > > Berglund > > > > <arberglund@... <mailto:arberglund%40gmail.com> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > <mailto:arberglund%40gmail.com> > > > > > > > > > > > > <mailto:arberglund%40gmail.com>> > > > > > > > > > > > Subject: Re: > > > > [AquaticLife] > > > > > Re: > > > > > > wisteria/lighting > > > > > > > > > > previous > > > > > > > > > > > > > question/response > > > > revisited > > > > > > > > > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > > > > > Date: > > Tuesday, > > > November > > > > 10, > > > > > 2009, > > > > > > 9:30 PM > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I believe it > > was > > > Steve > > > > who > > > > > posted > > > > > > a link about > > > > > > > > > lumens > > > > > > > > > > months back when > > > > > > > > > > > (I think it > > was > > > maybe > > > > Bill > > > > > asking) > > > > > > about lighting > > > > > > > > > for > > > > > > > > > > planted > > > > > > > > > > > aquariums. > > > > > > > > > > > Plants require > > 2 > > > > different > > > > > > spectrums of light to > > > > > > > > > > properly produce > > > > > > > > > > > either leaves > > or > > > flowers > > > > (red > > > > > is > > > > > > more for flower > > > > > > > > > > production and > > blue > > > > > > > > > > > is more for > > growth, > > > but > > > > for > > > > > the > > > > > > best growing you > > > > > > > > > want > > > > > > > > > > a mixture of > > > > > > > > > > > BOTH colors). > > > > > > > > > > > So in reality > > you > > > would > > > > want > > > > > a > > > > > > light that appears > > > > > > > > > more > > > > > > > > > > brown/reddish > > > > > > > > > > > in coloring > > and a > > > > blue/white > > > > > > coloring as well, > > > > > > > > > but > > > > > > > > > > they now have > > bulbs > > > > > > > > > > > that have > > BOTH > > > > spectrums > > > > > built in > > > > > > (I'm sure they > > > > > > > > > don't > > > > > > > > > > work as well as > > > > > > > > > > > it would to > > have 2 > > > > different > > > > > bulbs > > > > > > one mostly red > > > > > > > > > and > > > > > > > > > > the other mostly > > > > > > > > > > > blue on the > > color > > > > spectrum). > > > > > > > > > > > Let me see if > > I > > > still > > > > have > > > > > the > > > > > > link bookmarked. > > > > > > > > > > > What I was > > trying > > > to say > > > > is > > > > > that > > > > > > Kelvin does not > > > > > > > > > tell > > > > > > > > > > you what color > > > > > > > > > > > spectrum the > > light > > > > REALLY is, > > > > > it's > > > > > > actually > > > > > > > > > measuring > > > > > > > > > > it's light > > > > > > > > > > > output color > > > according > > > > to how > > > > > the > > > > > > human eyes > > > > > > > > > perceive > > > > > > > > > > it. So 6500 > > > > > > > > > > > kelvin in > > general > > > is > > > > what > > > > > most > > > > > > plants will > > > > > > > > > prefer > > > > > > > > > > because that is a > > > > > > > > > > > mixture of > > both red > > > and > > > > blue > > > > > > spectrums (In MOST > > > > > > > > > bulbs) > > > > > > > > > > unfortunately > > > > > > > > > > > not all light > > bulb > > > > > manufactures > > > > > > have to use the > > > > > > > > > exact > > > > > > > > > > same chart for > > > > > > > > > > > their colors, > > so > > > they > > > > will > > > > > have > > > > > > different colors > > > > > > > > > than > > > > > > > > > > another bulb > > > > > > > > > > > that says > > it's > > > 6500 > > > > Kelvin. > > > > > what > > > > > > you really need > > > > > > > > > to > > > > > > > > > > read is the color > > > > > > > > > > > chart on the > > box, > > > not > > > > what > > > > > lumens > > > > > > it says it is. > > > > > > > > > > > (still > > searching > > > for > > > > link, > > > > > LOL). > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > This isn't > > the > > > right > > > > link but > > > > > it > > > > > > discusses the > > > > > > > > > > kelvin/lumen > > problems a > > > > > > > > > > > little bit, > > still > > > > looking for > > > > > the > > > > > > link that > > > > > > > > > showed the > > > > > > > > > > charts and what > > > > > > > > > > > to look for in > > the > > > > color > > > > > charts. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > http://www.americanaquariumproducts.com/Aquarium_Lighting.html > <http://www.americanaquariumproducts.<br/><br/>(Message over 64 KB, truncated)

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 44482	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 11/12/2009
Subject: Re: wisteria/lighting previous question/response revisited

Yeah I know I'm slow ;) Just got home from work and was starting at the bottom of new emails and working my way to the newest ;) LOL. That's okay, I don't mind being redundant now and then ;) I don't get your cooking reference but then again it's been a long day ;) I was talking about multi-tank syndrome, what MTS where you referring to? ;) LOL Oh and hubby says I suck as hangman ;) _ _ _ _! LOL Amber bill 1433 wrote: > > Hi Amber, > > No offense but your getting in the game at the 4th quarter! > > We got Len on the how's, when's and we are currently working > on the Watt's--------------sorry I couldn't help that one. > Back it up just a bit and check the back and fourths between us in > the last two hours. > > Oh, sorry, you refered to the MTS? Oh ya, been there, done that back in > 197_. Simple reply on that one? I can't cook and hate it when I try! > Wife said one more time around with that and _ _ _. I'm sure you get > the picture? > > Bill > > --- On Thu, 11/12/09, Amber Berglund <arberglund@... > <mailto:arberglund%40gmail.com>> wrote: > > > From: Amber Berglund <arberglund@... > <mailto:arberglund%40gmail.com>> > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: wisteria/lighting previous > question/response revisited > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > Date: Thursday, November 12, 2009, 9:36 PM > > Perhaps you should ask what light > > fixture he got? > > He said it's 1/2 inch in diameter, which makes it a T-4 for > > sure, but > > I'm not sure where he got the wattage from, perhaps writing > > on the bulb. > > > > Amber > > > > Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > > > > > > Can you show me a link to a T-4, 17W bulb? I haven't > > found a single one in > > > all the reading that I've been doing. Remind me how > > long your bulbs are > > > again? I scrolled down looking and didn't see an exact > > answer. In looking > > > at your link to DFS about your fixture, I see that for > > the 29G/20G, > > > it's 30" > > > long with the 24" bulbs but I wanted to be sure since > > every site I look at > > > for T-4's, they do not come in 17W or 24" length so > > I'm still thinking > > > something is wrong with your calculations or the > > reading of the > > > specs/calcs > > > that you do have. > > > > > > Here are three different sites with their lists of T-4 > > bulbs and as > > > you can > > > see, there are NO 17W bulbs and no 24" bulbs. > > > > > > http://www.lightbulbsdirect.com/page/001/CTGY/T4 > <http://www.lightbulbsdirect.com/page/001/CTGY/T4> > > > <http://www.lightbulbsdirect.com/page/001/CTGY/T4 > <http://www.lightbulbsdirect.com/page/001/CTGY/T4>> > > > http://www.buylighting.com/T4-Fluorescent-s/102.htm > <http://www.buylighting.com/T4-Fluorescent-s/102.htm> > > > <http://www.buylighting.com/T4-Fluorescent-s/102.htm > <http://www.buylighting.com/T4-Fluorescent-s/102.htm>> > > > > http://www.servicelighting.com/T4-Straight-Linear-Fluorescent-Light-Bulbs > <http://www.servicelighting.com/T4-Straight-Linear-Fluorescent-Light-Bulbs> > > > > > > <http://www.servicelighting.com/T4-Straight-Linear-Fluorescent-Light-Bulbs > <http://www.servicelighting.com/T4-Straight-Linear-Fluorescent-Light-Bulbs>> > > > > > > The closest that T-4's come are 20.5" or 22-5/16" with > > only one type/brand > > > having the 22-5/16" bulb as a specialty bulb and all > > of the other > > > T-4's are > > > 20.5" and then jump up to 33 7/8" or 33.9" depending > > on the site. > > > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>> > > > (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are > > listed on the right > > > side, alphabetically under Labels and also under > > Archives by Year, Month) > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On > > > Behalf Of bill 1433 > > > Sent: Thursday, November 12, 2009 3:27 PM > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: wisteria/lighting > > previous > > > question/response > > > revisited > > > > > > Hi Len, > > > > > > Like I said, they are a 1/2" but so far all I can find > > around here > > > are "cool white" and "warm light" bulbs. > > > > > > Bill > > > > > > --- On Thu, 11/12/09, Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@... > <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com> > > > > > <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com>> wrote: > > > > > > > From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@... > <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com> > > > > > <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com>> > > > > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: wisteria/lighting > > previous > > > question/response revisited > > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > Date: Thursday, November 12, 2009, 3:48 PM > > > > Bulb diameter is easy. Take the > > > > bulb and place it over a ruler/tape > > > > measurer and look straight down on it. It should > > be > > > > easy to discern between > > > > 1/2" (T-4) and 1" (T-8) and the T-5 (5/8") uses > > a > > > > completely different > > > > single pin on each end so that would eliminate > > that > > > > bulb. Or better yet.. > > > > take your bulb to the WalMart and compare apples > > to apples > > > > and you'll then > > > > know exactly what you have and also be able to > > see what > > > > your local WalMart > > > > offers as far as better bulbs. You can probably > > get > > > > much more lighting with > > > > a new $5.00 to $10.00 bulb. > > > > > > > > Then Santa can still bring you the bigger tank > > and > > > > accessories and your > > > > other tanks will also be far more functional in > > case you > > > > choose to sell them > > > > or just have more tanks. As far as selling your > > > > unused stuff, > > > > CraigsList.org is free and you can renew the ad > > every week > > > > until you find > > > > the right buyer who is willing to pay the best > > price you > > > > can get. > > > > > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>> > > > > (Links to any articles referenced in above reply > > are listed > > > > on the right > > > > side, alphabetically under Labels and also under > > Archives > > > > by Year, Month) > > > > > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] > > > > On > > > > Behalf Of bill 1433 > > > > Sent: Thursday, November 12, 2009 2:27 PM > > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: wisteria/lighting > > previous > > > > question/response > > > > revisited > > > > > > > > Bulb Diameter Len, and now you see my problem. I > > > > haven't found any either. > > > > Also reading and studying all that you have sent > > me so far > > > > I come away from > > > > all of this with one single thought, is it worth > > it? > > > > > > > > > > > > With all this being said and it so close to the > > time for a > > > > visit from > > > > "Santa", I'm wondering if I should not put all > > you have > > > > taught me to better > > > > use by just getting something like a standard > > 55-gallon > > > > tank! These lights > > > > do cost a bit but there is not a huge different > > between > > > > size vs. cost from a > > > > 29 to a 55. Then to is the issue of what to do > > with > > > > the plastic covers I > > > > already have should I go to the all glass > > covers. > > > > > > > > Sell them, sure but to whom? Remember, I'm the > > guy > > > > that has a hard time > > > > just trying to find a place to buy fish around > > here, there > > > > just aren't that > > > > many places or people. No matter what I do, I > > promise > > > > to keep you posted. > > > > > > > > Thanks for all you've taught and helped me with, > > > > > > > > Bill > > > > > > > > > > > > --- On Thu, 11/12/09, Lenny V. aka GoldLenny > > <GoldLenny@... <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com> > > > > > <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com>> > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@... > <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com> > > > > > <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com>> > > > > > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: > > wisteria/lighting > > > > previous > > > > question/response revisited > > > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > Date: Thursday, November 12, 2009, 2:42 PM > > > > > Once again Bill.... you need to get > > > > > away from the "Watts" mindset. It's > > > > > just not applicable with the wide array of > > bulbs > > > > available > > > > > nowadays. That > > > > > link goes to a CFL light strip and 65 watts > > of CFL > > > > lighting > > > > > is a LOT, LOT, > > > > > LOT (3 LOTS) more lighting than 65 watts of > > an > > > > incandescent > > > > > bulb and a LOT, > > > > > LOT (2 LOTS) more lighting than a 65W > > normal > > > > fluorescent > > > > > bulb. This would > > > > > probably increase your lighting by 10X's > > over what you > > > > have > > > > > now. If you > > > > > just went with 20W (range) CFL's, you'd get > > 2-3X's > > > > more > > > > > light than you > > > > > currently have. > > > > > > > > > > You still need to do some more research on > > your > > > > current > > > > > bulbs to find out > > > > > the specs on them. Without knowing your > > current > > > > > specs, it's difficult to > > > > > know how much more lighting you might > > want/need. > > > > > > > > > > Since you got your fixture and bulbs from > > DFS, I just > > > > did a > > > > > search of '17 > > > > > watt fluorescent' and four bulbs came up.. > > one was a > > > > CFL so > > > > > that wasn't it > > > > > and the other three are below BUT none of > > them are > > > > T-4's... > > > > > in fact, so far, > > > > > I have not been able to find a T-4, 17W > > bulb > > > > > anywhere. What are you > > > > > measuring to come up with the 1/2" figure? > > Bulb > > > > > diameter, pin separation or > > > > > other??? > > > > > > > > > > > http://www.drsfostersmith.com/product/prod_display.cfm?pcatid=3787 > <http://www.drsfostersmith.com/product/prod_display.cfm?pcatid=3787> > > > > > > <http://www.drsfostersmith.com/product/prod_display.cfm?pcatid=3787 > <http://www.drsfostersmith.com/product/prod_display.cfm?pcatid=3787>> > > > > > (24", > > > > > T-8, 5500K, nothing for lumens) > > > > > > > > > > > http://www.drsfostersmith.com/product/prod_display.cfm?pcatid=4491 > <http://www.drsfostersmith.com/product/prod_display.cfm?pcatid=4491> > > > > > > <http://www.drsfostersmith.com/product/prod_display.cfm?pcatid=4491 > <http://www.drsfostersmith.com/product/prod_display.cfm?pcatid=4491>> > > > > > (24", > > > > > T-8, Actinic 420nm, nothing for lumens) > > > > > > > > > > > http://www.drsfostersmith.com/product/prod_display.cfm?pcatid=4489 > <http://www.drsfostersmith.com/product/prod_display.cfm?pcatid=4489> > > > > > > <http://www.drsfostersmith.com/product/prod_display.cfm?pcatid=4489 > <http://www.drsfostersmith.com/product/prod_display.cfm?pcatid=4489>> > > > > > (24", > > > > > T-8, 6500K, nothing for lumens) > > > > > > > > > > You need to take your bulb out and go to a > > local > > > > lighting > > > > > store (department) > > > > > or even the Walmart and see if they can give > > you more > > > > info > > > > > on it or at least > > > > > you might find identical sized bulbs that do > > have > > > > specs on > > > > > them so you can > > > > > be more informed about what you have. > > > > > > > > > > While I was at the DFS site, and since you > > previously > > > > > mentioned that you > > > > > have an All-Glass hood that came with the > > one bulb > > > > light > > > > > strip, I did a > > > > > search on DFS for 'All-Glass light' and > > found this > > > > link for > > > > > the only single > > > > > bulb light strip that All-Glass has on DFS' > > site. > > > > > > > > > > > http://www.drsfostersmith.com/product/prod_display.cfm?pcatid=3793 > <http://www.drsfostersmith.com/product/prod_display.cfm?pcatid=3793> > > > > > > <http://www.drsfostersmith.com/product/prod_display.cfm?pcatid=3793 > <http://www.drsfostersmith.com/product/prod_display.cfm?pcatid=3793>> > > > > > > > > > > It comes in 16" or 20" lengths. There's a > > link to > > > > > "View compatible Bulbs" > > > > > in the Description tab, which brings up a > > page of > > > > bulbs and > > > > > ALL of the ones > > > > > compatible for the 20" strip are T-8 bulbs. > > There > > > > are > > > > > a couple of dozen > > > > > bulbs listed so I didn't go through them > > and > > > > unfortunately, > > > > > they do NOT list > > > > > the wattage on that list so I wasn't able to > > find any > > > > 17W > > > > > bulbs without > > > > > checking a bunch of links. Since it was an > > > > All-Glass > > > > > fixture, I did click > > > > > on the first All-Glass brand bulb which > > brought up > > > > this > > > > > page... > > > > > > > > > > > > > > http://www.drsfostersmith.com/product/prod_display.cfm?pcatid=12850 > <http://www.drsfostersmith.com/product/prod_display.cfm?pcatid=12850> > > > > > > <http://www.drsfostersmith.com/product/prod_display.cfm?pcatid=12850 > <http://www.drsfostersmith.com/product/prod_display.cfm?pcatid=12850>> > > > > > > > > > > And you will see that there is either an > > 18", 15W bulb > > > > or a > > > > > 24", 17W bulb, > > > > > as well as others... and these are the 8000K > > bulbs > > > > which > > > > > were listed in the > > > > > description on the website link that you > > posted > > > > earlier > > > > > BUT.. these are ALL > > > > > T-8 bulbs, not T-4's so we're back to that > > spec issue > > > > > again. This page does > > > > > call them 8000K Daylight, Full Spectrum > > bulbs so maybe > > > > they > > > > > are OK but I > > > > > wish that the DFS site would list lumens > > since that is > > > > a > > > > > critical, > > > > > need-to-know piece of information that is > > missing. > > > > As > > > > > seen in my previous > > > > > posts, the same sized bulbs can have a lumen > > output > > > > that is > > > > > 50% to 100% > > > > > higher than a comparable bulb of the same > > size... and > > > > that > > > > > makes a HUGE > > > > > difference in lighting. > > > > > > > > > > Once again, take the bulb to your WalMart > > and compare > > > > > apples to apples and > > > > > find out exactly what size bulb you have and > > while > > > > there, > > > > > look at other > > > > > identical sized bulbs and look for the > > highest lumens > > > > in > > > > > the 5000K to 6500K > > > > > range, buy one and bring it home and see if > > it's a > > > > LOT > > > > > brighter than what > > > > > you now have. If so, that might do the > > trick. > > > > > > > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > > > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>> > > > > > (Links to any articles referenced in above > > reply are > > > > listed > > > > > on the right > > > > > side, alphabetically under Labels and also > > under > > > > Archives > > > > > by Year, Month) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] > > > > > On > > > > > Behalf Of bill 1433 > > > > > Sent: Thursday, November 12, 2009 12:12 PM > > > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: > > wisteria/lighting > > > > previous > > > > > question/response > > > > > revisited > > > > > > > > > > Hi Amber, > > > > > > > > > > The links Len provided are very close BUT > > it's the > > > > ends of > > > > > the tube or pins > > > > > that worry me. They are very close but > > "how"? > > > > > > > > > > Meaning this buying the tube, ok by mail? > > Now what > > > > if > > > > > it doesn't work? > > > > > Rreturn a $10.00 tube the postage would cost > > more. > > > > > I'm trying to work > > > > > backward now from Len's link, and get a > > manufacture so > > > > I > > > > > can buy around > > > > > here. Also I'm getting made enough now to > > scrape > > > > the > > > > > whole thing and just > > > > > get a new All-Glass cover then maybe one of > > these: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > http://www.drsfostersmith.com/product/prod_display.cfm?c=3578+3733+9654+9871 > <http://www.drsfostersmith.com/product/prod_display.cfm?c=3578+3733+9654+9871> > > > > > > <http://www.drsfostersmith.com/product/prod_display.cfm?c=3578+3733+9654+9871 > <http://www.drsfostersmith.com/product/prod_display.cfm?c=3578+3733+9654+9871>> > > > > > &pcatid=9871 > > > > > > > > > > This link is not pointing to the exact > > Coralife > > > > product I > > > > > want at Doctors > > > > > its # apn-16981, if you have their catalog > > but I can't > > > > make > > > > > it come up on > > > > > search at their site. It is a single rated > > at 65 > > > > > watts and is 24". > > > > > > > > > > Bill > > > > > --- On Thu, 11/12/09, Amber Berglund <arberglund@... > <mailto:arberglund%40gmail.com> > > > > > <mailto:arberglund%40gmail.com>> > > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > From: Amber Berglund <arberglund@... > <mailto:arberglund%40gmail.com> > > > > > <mailto:arberglund%40gmail.com>> > > > > > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: > > wisteria/lighting > > > > > previous > > > > > question/response revisited > > > > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > Date: Thursday, November 12, 2009, > > 12:59 PM > > > > > > Bill does have T-4's if I remember > > > > > > correctly, maybe one of those 20watt > > > > > > bulbs will work for him and provide > > more lumens > > > > than > > > > > his > > > > > > current bulbs do. > > > > > > Did you check those links out Bill? ;) > > > > > > > > > > > > Amber > > > > > > > > > > > > Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Just because a fixture currently > > has a T-8 > > > > or > > > > > T-10, > > > > > > does not mean it > > > > > > > cannot > > > > > > > use a T-12, and vice versa. They > > are all > > > > medium > > > > > bi-pin > > > > > > bulbs, meaning they > > > > > > > all will fit and work UNLESS the > > reflector > > > > is so > > > > > tight > > > > > > that a T-12 cannot > > > > > > > fit inside the fixture but I > > haven't seen > > > > this as > > > > > a > > > > > > problem in the past. > > > > > > > Usually, going with a T-8 or T-10, > > instead > > > > of a > > > > > T-12 > > > > > > will give more lumens > > > > > > > but in the case of this particular > > sized > > > > bulb, > > > > > the > > > > > > T-12 may be the better > > > > > > > option. Of course, we still need > > more > > > > details on > > > > > > Bill's exact bulb. We > > > > > > > still do not know anything except > > that it's > > > > 17 > > > > > > watts... nothing about > > > > > > > lumens, K rating or anything else > > for > > > > comparison > > > > > > purposes. As Johnny 5 > > > > > > > once > > > > > > > said... "Need more input!" (I have > > no clue > > > > why > > > > > that > > > > > > OLD movie line popped > > > > > > > into my head and I can't blame it > > on drugs > > > > since > > > > > I > > > > > > didn't/don't do them... > > > > > > > and as far as I know, beer doesn't > > cause > > > > acid > > > > > > flashbacks. LOL > > > > > > > http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Short_Circuit > <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Short_Circuit> > > > <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Short_Circuit > <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Short_Circuit>> > > > > > > > <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Short_Circuit > <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Short_Circuit> > > > <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Short_Circuit > <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Short_Circuit>>>) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Now... thinking back a little. > > Bill may > > > > have > > > > > T-4's and > > > > > > if he does, those > > > > > > > use the miniature bi-pin base and > > the above > > > > > larger > > > > > > T-#'s with medium > > > > > > > bi-pin > > > > > > > base would not work. If this is > > the case, > > > > there > > > > > are > > > > > > other options > > > > > > > listed on > > > > > > > this page... > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > http://www.servicelighting.com/T4-Straight-Linear-Fluorescent-Light-Bulbs > <http://www.servicelighting.com/T4-Straight-Linear-Fluorescent-Light-Bulbs> > > > > > > <http://www.servicelighting.com/T4-Straight-Linear-Fluorescent-Light-Bulbs > <http://www.servicelighting.com/T4-Straight-Linear-Fluorescent-Light-Bulbs>> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > <http://www.servicelighting.com/T4-Straight-Linear-Fluorescent-Light-Bulbs > <http://www.servicelighting.com/T4-Straight-Linear-Fluorescent-Light-Bulbs> > > > > > > <http://www.servicelighting.com/T4-Straight-Linear-Fluorescent-Light-Bulbs > <http://www.servicelighting.com/T4-Straight-Linear-Fluorescent-Light-Bulbs>>> > > > > > > > including this 20W, 6400K, 1340 > > Lumens bulb > > > > - > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > http://www.servicelighting.com/Bulbrite-85220-F20T4-64K-F20T4-D-T4-Straight- > <http://www.servicelighting.com/Bulbrite-85220-F20T4-64K-F20T4-D-T4-Straight-> > > > > > > <http://www.servicelighting.com/Bulbrite-85220-F20T4-64K-F20T4-D-T4-Straight- > <http://www.servicelighting.com/Bulbrite-85220-F20T4-64K-F20T4-D-T4-Straight->> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > <http://www.servicelighting.com/Bulbrite-85220-F20T4-64K-F20T4-D-T4-Straight > <http://www.servicelighting.com/Bulbrite-85220-F20T4-64K-F20T4-D-T4-Straight> > > > > > > <http://www.servicelighting.com/Bulbrite-85220-F20T4-64K-F20T4-D-T4-Straight > <http://www.servicelighting.com/Bulbrite-85220-F20T4-64K-F20T4-D-T4-Straight>> > > > > > -> > > > > > > > Linear-Fluorescent-Light-Bulb, > > which sounds > > > > like > > > > > a > > > > > > pretty good bulb > > > > > > > from the > > > > > > > specs and actually provides more > > lumens than > > > > any > > > > > of > > > > > > the T-12's previously > > > > > > > listed. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > > > > > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>> > > > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>>> > > > > > > > (Links to any articles referenced > > in above > > > > reply > > > > > are > > > > > > listed on the right > > > > > > > side, alphabetically under Labels > > and also > > > > under > > > > > > Archives by Year, Month) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > > > > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > > > > > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On > > > > > > > Behalf Of Amber Berglund > > > > > > > Sent: Thursday, November 12, 2009 > > 10:29 AM > > > > > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: > > > > wisteria/lighting > > > > > > previous > > > > > > > question/response > > > > > > > revisited > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Bill has smaller bulbs, I think > > they are not > > > > easy > > > > > to > > > > > > find in a higher > > > > > > > wattage output, which is what he > > was looking > > > > for > > > > > a few > > > > > > months back. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Amber > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I don't know what you mean by > > this. > > > > Please > > > > > > elaborate. What size tube? > > > > > > > > I posted about several > > different bulbs > > > > but > > > > > all > > > > > > were T-12's, which is > > > > > > > > one of the most common > > sizes. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > > > > > > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>> > > > > > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>>> > > > > > > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>>>> > > > > > > > (Links to any articles referenced > > in > > > > > > > > above reply are listed on the > > right > > > > side, > > > > > > alphabetically under Labels > > > > > > > > and also under Archives by > > Year, > > > > Month) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > > > > > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On > > > > > > Behalf Of bill 1433 > > > > > > > > Sent: Thursday, November 12, > > 2009 8:59 > > > > AM > > > > > > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] > > Re: > > > > > wisteria/lighting > > > > > > previous > > > > > > > > question/response revisited > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Yes Len, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > But its finding that size > > tube with > > > > more of > > > > > > anything that's the problem. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Bill > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > --- On Wed, 11/11/09, Lenny > > V. aka > > > > > GoldLenny > > > > > > <GoldLenny@... <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com> > > <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com> > > > > > > > > > > > > <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com>> > > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > From: Lenny V. aka > > GoldLenny > > > > <GoldLenny@... <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com> > > <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com> > > > > > > > > > > > > <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com>> > > > > > > > > > Subject: RE: > > [AquaticLife] Re: > > > > > > wisteria/lighting previous > > > > > > > > > question/response > > revisited > > > > > > > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > > > Date: Wednesday, > > November 11, > > > > 2009, > > > > > 5:22 PM > > > > > > Well, if you only have > > > > > > > > > 17W, then you could > > definitely do > > > > > better > > > > > > with the 20W, higher lumen, > > > > > > > > > better K rating bulbs > > that I > > > > > mentioned. > > > > > > Considering the lumen > > > > > > > > > ratings of fluorescent > > bulbs I've > > > > > looked at, > > > > > > your 17W bulbs might > > > > > > > > > only have 500-700 lumens > > where the > > > > BEST > > > > > 20W > > > > > > bulb (below) has > > > > > > > > > 1075 lumens so you > > > > > > > > > could possibly increase > > your > > > > lighting > > > > > by 50% > > > > > > to 100% just by > > > > > > > > > changing to that bulb. > > At least, > > > > with > > > > > that > > > > > > bulb, you'll be in the > > > > > > > > > low-light range for > > plants on the > > > > 20G > > > > > but > > > > > > the 29G will need some work. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Of course, you should > > find out > > > > what > > > > > the > > > > > > lumens and K ratings are on > > > > > > > > > the bulbs you have so > > you'll know > > > > if > > > > > you are > > > > > > getting a small jump or > > > > > > > > > a BIG jump in lighting > > just by > > > > changing > > > > > your > > > > > > bulbs. Check your local > > > > > > > > > WalMart for bulbs. My > > nearby > > > > WalMart > > > > > > SuperCenter has a really big > > > > > > > > > assortment of > > fluorescent tubes > > > > and > > > > > they > > > > > > were cheaper than the Home > > > > > > > > > Depot. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Something else I'm > > thinking about > > > > for > > > > > you is > > > > > > going with 18" > > > > > > > > > light-sticks on > > > > > > > > > each end of your 29G > > tank or front > > > > or > > > > > back > > > > > > (back would hide it best > > > > > > > > > but you decide your > > best > > > > aesthetics) > > > > > and > > > > > > you'd have to make a DIY > > > > > > > > > reflector for it (white > > poster > > > > board > > > > > and > > > > > > scotch tape would work) and > > > > > > > > > that would get more > > lighting down > > > > to > > > > > the > > > > > > bottom level plants in the > > > > > > > > > 29G. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > > > > > > > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>> > > > > > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>>> > > > > > > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>>>> > > > > > > > (Links to any articles > > > > > > > > > referenced in above > > reply are > > > > listed on > > > > > the > > > > > > right side, > > > > > > > > > alphabetically under > > Labels and > > > > also > > > > > under > > > > > > Archives by Year, Month) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -----Original > > Message----- > > > > > > > > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > > > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] > > > > > > > > > On > > > > > > > > > Behalf Of bill 1433 > > > > > > > > > Sent: Wednesday, > > November 11, 2009 > > > > 3:42 > > > > > PM > > > > > > > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > > > Subject: RE: > > [AquaticLife] Re: > > > > > > wisteria/lighting previous > > > > > > > > > question/response > > revisited > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > It is what it is type of > > thing > > > > Len. > > > > > Site > > > > > > says one thing but stamped > > > > > > > > > or printed right on the > > tube is at > > > > 17 > > > > > > watts. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Bill > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > --- On Wed, 11/11/09, > > Lenny V. > > > > aka > > > > > GoldLenny > > > > > > <GoldLenny@... <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com> > > <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com> > > > > > > > > > > > > <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com>> > > > > > > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > From: Lenny V. aka > > GoldLenny > > > > > <GoldLenny@... <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com> > > <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com> > > > > > > > > > > > > <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com>> > > > > > > > > > > Subject: RE: > > [AquaticLife] > > > > Re: > > > > > > wisteria/lighting > > > > > > > > > previous > > > > > > > > > > question/response > > revisited > > > > > > > > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > > > > Date: Wednesday, > > November > > > > 11, > > > > > 2009, > > > > > > 2:16 PM The > > > > > > > > > problem might be this > > > > > > > > > > statement in the > > > > description... > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > "... Hoods include > > 8000ºK > > > > > bulb... > > > > > > ...20W, 24"..." > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > That's getting into > > the > > > > higher > > > > > > green/blue Kelvin > > > > > > > > > range... > > > > > > > > > > closer to the > > > > > > > > > > 10,000K actinic > > type bulbs... > > > > than > > > > > the > > > > > > 5000K to 6500K > > > > > > > > > "Daylight" bulbs > > > > > > > > > > that provide full > > spectrum > > > > > lighting. > > > > > > It's also only > > > > > > > > > a 20W bulb > > > > > > > > > > (according to the > > DFS site, > > > > > although > > > > > > you stated it was > > > > > > > > > only 17W so > > > > > > > > > > double check this) > > so it's > > > > only > > > > > 1WPG on > > > > > > the 20G and > > > > > > > > > only 0.69WPG on > > > > > > > > > > the 29G. Of course, > > if the > > > > bulb > > > > > puts > > > > > > out a LOT more > > > > > > > > > lumens (you would > > > > > > > > > > have to do more > > checking up > > > > on the > > > > > bulb > > > > > > to find this), > > > > > > > > > that would help > > > > > > > > > > a little but not > > much. I > > > > think you > > > > > need > > > > > > at least > > > > > > > > > 1WPG to have success > > > > > > > > > > with low-light > > plants, > > > > although > > > > > > floating plants like > > > > > > > > > Anacharis, > > > > > > > > > > Hornwort, Duckweed, > > etc., > > > > would be > > > > > up > > > > > > close to the > > > > > > > > > light and benefit > > > > > > > > > > from CO2 from the > > air and > > > > would do > > > > > OK > > > > > > with your > > > > > > > > > lighting... but then > > > > > > > > > > they would also > > block out > > > > the > > > > > lighting > > > > > > to the rest of > > > > > > > > > the tank. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I don't see a lot > > of options, > > > > as > > > > > far as > > > > > > T-8 bulbs are > > > > > > > > > concerned for > > > > > > > > > > this size fixture > > but I see a > > > > few > > > > > > different T-12's... > > > > > > > > > such as... > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > (My rating is: GOOD > > - but > > > > see > > > > > BETTER > > > > > > and BEST options > > > > > > > > > below... at > > > > > > > > > > least as far as the > > bulbs on > > > > this > > > > > site > > > > > > are concerned) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > http://www.servicelighting.com/Sylvania-22119-F20T12-DSGN50-T12-Straig > <http://www.servicelighting.com/Sylvania-22119-F20T12-DSGN50-T12-Straig> > > > > > > <http://www.servicelighting.com/Sylvania-22119-F20T12-DSGN50-T12-Straig > <http://www.servicelighting.com/Sylvania-22119-F20T12-DSGN50-T12-Straig>> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > <http://www.servicelighting.com/Sylvania-22119-F20T12-DSGN50-T12-Straig > <http://www.servicelighting.com/Sylvania-22119-F20T12-DSGN50-T12-Straig> > > > > > > <http://www.servicelighting.com/Sylvania-22119-F20T12-DSGN50-T12-Straig > <http://www.servicelighting.com/Sylvania-22119-F20T12-DSGN50-T12-Straig>>> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > <http://www.servicelighting.com/Sylvania-22119-F20T12-DSGN50-T12-Strai > <http://www.servicelighting.com/Sylvania-22119-F20T12-DSGN50-T12-Strai> > > > > > > <http://www.servicelighting.com/Sylvania-22119-F20T12-DSGN50-T12-Strai > <http://www.servicelighting.com/Sylvania-22119-F20T12-DSGN50-T12-Strai>> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > <http://www.servicelighting.com/Sylvania-22119-F20T12-DSGN50-T12-Strai > <http://www.servicelighting.com/Sylvania-22119-F20T12-DSGN50-T12-Strai> > > > > > > <http://www.servicelighting.com/Sylvania-22119-F20T12-DSGN50-T12-Strai > <http://www.servicelighting.com/Sylvania-22119-F20T12-DSGN50-T12-Strai>>> > > > > > > > > g> > > > > > > > > > > ht-Lin > > > > > > > > > > > > ear-Fluorescent-Light-Bulb > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Light Output: 880 > > lumens > > > > > > > > > > Refers to the > > literal measure > > > > of > > > > > the > > > > > > light-output of a > > > > > > > > > particular > > > > > > > > > > light bulb, > > measured in the > > > > number > > > > > of > > > > > > lumens. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Energy Used: 20 > > watts > > > > > > > > > > "Watts" is the term > > applied > > > > to > > > > > the > > > > > > amount of energy > > > > > > > > > required and used > > > > > > > > > > by a particular > > light bulb. > > > > It is > > > > > an > > > > > > international > > > > > > > > > system unit of > > > > > > > > > > power equal to one > > joule per > > > > > second. > > > > > > Contrary to > > > > > > > > > popular belief, the > > > > > > > > > > wattage of a bulb > > does not > > > > > directly > > > > > > measure the > > > > > > > > > brightness; the > > > > > > > > > > "lumens" of a light > > is what > > > > > defines the > > > > > > actual light > > > > > > > > > output. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Average Lifetime: > > 9,000 > > > > hours > > > > > > > > > > This refers to an > > average > > > > > lifetime > > > > > > rating based on > > > > > > > > > large quantities in > > > > > > > > > > test groups. This > > testing > > > > takes > > > > > into > > > > > > account usage of > > > > > > > > > 3 hours per > > > > > > > > > > start for > > fluorescent lamps > > > > and > > > > > 10 > > > > > > hours per start for > > > > > > > > > HID lamps. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Bulb Type: T12 > > > > > > > > > > The "Bulb Type" is > > typically > > > > a > > > > > > combination of the > > > > > > > > > style of bulb as > > > > > > > > > > well as the width > > of the > > > > bulb. > > > > > Usually, > > > > > > the first > > > > > > > > > couple letters will > > > > > > > > > > indicate the type; > > "G" would > > > > > indicate > > > > > > "Globe", "PAR" > > > > > > > > > would indicate > > > > > > > > > > "Parabolic > > Reflector"... The > > > > > numbers > > > > > > indicate the > > > > > > > > > diameter of the > > > > > > > > > > light bulb in > > eighths of an > > > > inch; > > > > > a > > > > > > "G40" would be a > > > > > > > > > "Globe" style > > > > > > > > > > that is "5 inches" > > in > > > > diameter. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Base Type: Medium > > Bi-Pin > > > > > > > > > > The "Base" of a > > light bulb is > > > > the > > > > > part > > > > > > that either > > > > > > > > > screws or snaps > > > > > > > > > > into a receptacle. > > Base Type > > > > > > terminology may indicate > > > > > > > > > common > > > > > > > > > > descriptive words > > like > > > > "Medium" > > > > > or > > > > > > "Candelabra", or > > > > > > > > > may even contain > > > > > > > > > > numeric codes that > > signify > > > > size > > > > > and > > > > > > variety, like > > > > > > > > > "E26" or "2GX13". > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Color Temperature: > > 5,000K > > > > > > > > > > Correlated Color > > Temperature > > > > (CCT) > > > > > is a > > > > > > specification > > > > > > > > > of the color > > > > > > > > > > appearance of a > > lamp, > > > > relating > > > > > its > > > > > > color to that of a > > > > > > > > > reference source > > > > > > > > > > heated to a > > particular > > > > > temperature, > > > > > > measured in > > > > > > > > > degrees Kelvin (K). It > > > > > > > > > > generally measures > > the > > > > "warmth" > > > > > or > > > > > > "coolness" of light > > > > > > > > > source > > > > > > > > > > appearance. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > CRI: 90 > > > > > > > > > > CRI refers to the > > "Color > > > > > Rendering > > > > > > Index" of a light > > > > > > > > > bulb. > > > > > > > > > > CRI measures a > > > > > > > > > > light source and > > grades its > > > > > ability to > > > > > > render the > > > > > > > > > color of objects > > > > > > > > > > "correctly," as > > compared with > > > > a > > > > > > reference source with > > > > > > > > > comparable color > > > > > > > > > > temperature. 100 is > > perfect > > > > > rendering. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Length: 24 inches > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > (BETTER - slightly > > higher > > > > lumens > > > > > and > > > > > > higher 6500K > > > > > > > > > rating) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > http://www.servicelighting.com/Westinghouse-36516-F20T12-FS-T12-Straig > <http://www.servicelighting.com/Westinghouse-36516-F20T12-FS-T12-Straig> > > > > > > <http://www.servicelighting.com/Westinghouse-36516-F20T12-FS-T12-Straig > <http://www.servicelighting.com/Westinghouse-36516-F20T12-FS-T12-Straig>> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > <http://www.servicelighting.com/Westinghouse-36516-F20T12-FS-T12-Straig > <http://www.servicelighting.com/Westinghouse-36516-F20T12-FS-T12-Straig> > > > > > > <http://www.servicelighting.com/Westinghouse-36516-F20T12-FS-T12-Straig > <http://www.servicelighting.com/Westinghouse-36516-F20T12-FS-T12-Straig>>> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > <http://www.servicelighting.com/Westinghouse-36516-F20T12-FS-T12-Strai > <http://www.servicelighting.com/Westinghouse-36516-F20T12-FS-T12-Strai> > > > > > > <http://www.servicelighting.com/Westinghouse-36516-F20T12-FS-T12-Strai > <http://www.servicelighting.com/Westinghouse-36516-F20T12-FS-T12-Strai>> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > <http://www.servicelighting.com/Westinghouse-36516-F20T12-FS-T12-Strai > <http://www.servicelighting.com/Westinghouse-36516-F20T12-FS-T12-Strai> > > > > > > <http://www.servicelighting.com/Westinghouse-36516-F20T12-FS-T12-Strai > <http://www.servicelighting.com/Westinghouse-36516-F20T12-FS-T12-Strai>>> > > > > > > > > g> > > > > > > > > > > ht-Lin > > > > > > > > > > > > ear-Fluorescent-Light-Bulb > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Light Output: 900 > > lumens > > > > > > > > > > Energy Used: 20 > > watts > > > > > > > > > > Average Lifetime: > > 10,000 > > > > hours > > > > > > > > > > Bulb Type: T12 > > > > > > > > > > Base Type: Medium > > Bi-Pin > > > > > > > > > > Color Temperature: > > 6,500K > > > > > > > > > > CRI: 90 > > > > > > > > > > Length: 24 inches > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > (BEST, of these > > three - > > > > around > > > > > 20% > > > > > > higher lumens and > > > > > > > > > good 6,500K > > > > > > > > > > rating, although it > > does have > > > > a > > > > > lower > > > > > > CRI rating.. but > > > > > > > > > still > > > > > > > > > > passing) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > http://www.servicelighting.com/Sylvania-22083-F20T12-D-T12-Straight-Li > <http://www.servicelighting.com/Sylvania-22083-F20T12-D-T12-Straight-Li> > > > > > > <http://www.servicelighting.com/Sylvania-22083-F20T12-D-T12-Straight-Li > <http://www.servicelighting.com/Sylvania-22083-F20T12-D-T12-Straight-Li>> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > <http://www.servicelighting.com/Sylvania-22083-F20T12-D-T12-Straight-Li > <http://www.servicelighting.com/Sylvania-22083-F20T12-D-T12-Straight-Li> > > > > > > <http://www.servicelighting.com/Sylvania-22083-F20T12-D-T12-Straight-Li > <http://www.servicelighting.com/Sylvania-22083-F20T12-D-T12-Straight-Li>>> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > <http://www.servicelighting.com/Sylvania-22083-F20T12-D-T12-Straight-L > <http://www.servicelighting.com/Sylvania-22083-F20T12-D-T12-Straight-L> > > > > > > <http://www.servicelighting.com/Sylvania-22083-F20T12-D-T12-Straight-L > <http://www.servicelighting.com/Sylvania-22083-F20T12-D-T12-Straight-L>> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > <http://www.servicelighting.com/Sylvania-22083-F20T12-D-T12-Straight-L > <http://www.servicelighting.com/Sylvania-22083-F20T12-D-T12-Straight-L> > > > > > > <http://www.servicelighting.com/Sylvania-22083-F20T12-D-T12-Straight-L > <http://www.servicelighting.com/Sylvania-22083-F20T12-D-T12-Straight-L>>> > > > > > > > > i> > > > > > > > > > > near-F > > > > > > > > > > > > luorescent-Light-Bulb > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Light Output: 1,075 > > lumens > > > > > > > > > > Energy Used: 20 > > watts > > > > > > > > > > Average Lifetime: > > 9,000 > > > > hours > > > > > > > > > > Bulb Type: T12 > > > > > > > > > > Base Type: Medium > > Bi-Pin > > > > > > > > > > Color Temperature: > > 6,500K > > > > > > > > > > CRI: 76 > > > > > > > > > > Length: 24 inches > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Compare the above > > three to > > > > what is > > > > > sold > > > > > > as a > > > > > > > > > plant/aquarium light by > > > > > > > > > > the same company, > > which has > > > > a > > > > > lower > > > > > > lumens, MUCH lower > > > > > > > > > CRI rating and > > > > > > > > > > does not list the K > > rating > > > > other > > > > > than > > > > > > to say "Plant" > > > > > > > > > which is a > > > > > > > > > > subjective rating > > established > > > > by > > > > > the > > > > > > manufacturer. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > (WORST) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > http://www.servicelighting.com/Westinghouse-36411-F20T12-PL-T12-Straig > <http://www.servicelighting.com/Westinghouse-36411-F20T12-PL-T12-Straig> > > > > > > <http://www.servicelighting.com/Westinghouse-36411-F20T12-PL-T12-Straig > <http://www.servicelighting.com/Westinghouse-36411-F20T12-PL-T12-Straig>> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > <http://www.servicelighting.com/Westinghouse-36411-F20T12-PL-T12-Straig > <http://www.servicelighting.com/Westinghouse-36411-F20T12-PL-T12-Straig> > > > > > > <http://www.servicelighting.com/Westinghouse-36411-F20T12-PL-T12-Straig > <http://www.servicelighting.com/Westinghouse-36411-F20T12-PL-T12-Straig>>> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > <http://www.servicelighting.com/Westinghouse-36411-F20T12-PL-T12-Strai > <http://www.servicelighting.com/Westinghouse-36411-F20T12-PL-T12-Strai> > > > > > > <http://www.servicelighting.com/Westinghouse-36411-F20T12-PL-T12-Strai > <http://www.servicelighting.com/Westinghouse-36411-F20T12-PL-T12-Strai>> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > <http://www.servicelighting.com/Westinghouse-36411-F20T12-PL-T12-Strai > <http://www.servicelighting.com/Westinghouse-36411-F20T12-PL-T12-Strai> > > > > > > <http://www.servicelighting.com/Westinghouse-36411-F20T12-PL-T12-Strai > <http://www.servicelighting.com/Westinghouse-36411-F20T12-PL-T12-Strai>>> > > > > > > > > g> > > > > > > > > > > ht-Lin > > > > > > > > > > > > ear-Fluorescent-Light-Bulb > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Light Output: 700 > > lumens > > > > (over 30% > > > > > less > > > > > > lighting > > > > > > > > > than the 1,075 > > > > > > > > > > lumens bulb > > > > > > > > > > above) > > > > > > > > > > Energy Used: 20 > > watts > > > > > > > > > > Average Lifetime: > > 10,000 > > > > hours > > > > > > > > > > Bulb Type: T12 > > > > > > > > > > Base Type: Medium > > Bi-Pin > > > > > > > > > > Color: Plant > > > > > > > > > > CRI: 61 > > > > > > > > > > Length: 24 inches > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > If any of the above > > have > > > > much > > > > > better > > > > > > lumens than your > > > > > > > > > current > > > > > > > > > > lighting... > > > > > > > > > > and they all have > > better K > > > > > ratings, > > > > > > then any of them > > > > > > > > > would be better > > > > > > > > > > for you... but you > > would > > > > still be > > > > > stuck > > > > > > with only 20 > > > > > > > > > watts but it's > > > > > > > > > > the LUMENS and K > > rating that > > > > count > > > > > more > > > > > > than watts. > > > > > > > > > You need to find > > > > > > > > > > out the lumens on > > your bulb. > > > > Try > > > > > to > > > > > > find it on the > > > > > > > > > DFS site and let > > > > > > > > > > us know. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > You should look at > > the > > > > > AHSupply.com > > > > > > place for a > > > > > > > > > retrofit kit so you > > > > > > > > > > can use CFL's in > > your > > > > current > > > > > hood. > > > > > > That would > > > > > > > > > probably be your least > > > > > > > > > > expensive option. I > > know you > > > > don't > > > > > like > > > > > > electricity > > > > > > > > > but I'm sure you > > > > > > > > > > know someone that > > could do > > > > this > > > > > for > > > > > > you... on the > > > > > > > > > cheap... or over a > > > > > > > > > > 6-pack. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > > > > > > > > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>> > > > > > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>>> > > > > > > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>>>> > > > > > > > (Links to > > > > > > > > > any articles > > > > > > > > > > referenced in above > > reply > > > > are > > > > > listed on > > > > > > the right > > > > > > > > > side, alphabetically > > > > > > > > > > under Labels and > > also under > > > > > Archives by > > > > > > Year, Month) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -----Original > > Message----- > > > > > > > > > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > > > > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] > > > > > > > > > > On > > > > > > > > > > Behalf Of bill > > 1433 > > > > > > > > > > Sent: Wednesday, > > November 11, > > > > 2009 > > > > > 9:33 > > > > > > AM > > > > > > > > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > > > > Subject: RE: > > [AquaticLife] > > > > Re: > > > > > > wisteria/lighting > > > > > > > > > previous > > > > > > > > > > question/response > > > > > > > > > > revisited > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Hi \\Steve// > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > At this point, and > > also to > > > > refresh > > > > > your > > > > > > mind, and > > > > > > > > > anyone > > > > > > > > > > else on the group > > > > > > > > > > that may have > > interest. This > > > > all > > > > > got > > > > > > started with > > > > > > > > > my > > > > > > > > > > search for a tube > > that > > > > > > > > > > would allow me more > > light > > > > output > > > > > from > > > > > > an All Glass > > > > > > > > > Plastic > > > > > > > > > > hood and light. > > > > > > > > > > This unit comes > > with a "color > > > > type > > > > > tube > > > > > > at 17 watts > > > > > > > > > that is > > > > > > > > > > only 24 inches > > > > > > > > > > long. This is for > > a > > > > 20/29-gallon > > > > > tank. > > > > > > I was stupid enough to buy > > > > > > > > > > two of them, one > > for each > > > > tank. > > > > > For > > > > > > further inspection > > > > > > > > > here > > > > > > > > > > is the light: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > http://www.drsfostersmith.com/product/prod_display.cfm?pcatid=13447 > <http://www.drsfostersmith.com/product/prod_display.cfm?pcatid=13447> > > > > > > <http://www.drsfostersmith.com/product/prod_display.cfm?pcatid=13447 > <http://www.drsfostersmith.com/product/prod_display.cfm?pcatid=13447>> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > <http://www.drsfostersmith.com/product/prod_display.cfm?pcatid=13447 > <http://www.drsfostersmith.com/product/prod_display.cfm?pcatid=13447> > > > > > > <http://www.drsfostersmith.com/product/prod_display.cfm?pcatid=13447 > <http://www.drsfostersmith.com/product/prod_display.cfm?pcatid=13447>>> > > > > > > > > > > > > <http://www.drsfostersmith.com/product/prod_display.cfm?pcatid=13447 > <http://www.drsfostersmith.com/product/prod_display.cfm?pcatid=13447> > > > > > > <http://www.drsfostersmith.com/product/prod_display.cfm?pcatid=13447 > <http://www.drsfostersmith.com/product/prod_display.cfm?pcatid=13447>> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > <http://www.drsfostersmith.com/product/prod_display.cfm?pcatid=13447 > <http://www.drsfostersmith.com/product/prod_display.cfm?pcatid=13447> > > > > > > <http://www.drsfostersmith.com/product/prod_display.cfm?pcatid=13447 > <http://www.drsfostersmith.com/product/prod_display.cfm?pcatid=13447>>>> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > For those that > > would like to > > > > > aggravate > > > > > > themselves > > > > > > > > > further, > > > > > > > > > > I can also state > > > > > > > > > > that these hoods > > are very > > > > > conducive to > > > > > > growing Black Algae! > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Summoning up, I > > should have > > > > only > > > > > > purchased an > > > > > > > > > All-Glass > > > > > > > > > > cover and then > > > > > > > > > > probably a double > > tube light > > > > of > > > > > > sufficient wattage to > > > > > > > > > bring > > > > > > > > > > me up to the > > > > > > > > > > recommended 2 or 3 > > watts per > > > > > gallon. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Ya live and learn, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Bill > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > --- On Tue, > > 11/10/09, Steve > > > > Szabo > > > > > > <steve@... <mailto:steve%40familyszabo.com> > > <mailto:steve%40familyszabo.com> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > <mailto:steve%40familyszabo.com> > > > > > > > > > > > > <mailto:steve%40familyszabo.com>> > > > > > > > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > From: Steve > > Szabo <steve@... <mailto:steve%40familyszabo.com> > > > > > <mailto:steve%40familyszabo.com> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > <mailto:steve%40familyszabo.com> > > > > > > > > > > > > <mailto:steve%40familyszabo.com>> > > > > > > > > > > > Subject: RE: > > > > [AquaticLife] > > > > > Re: > > > > > > wisteria/lighting > > > > > > > > > > previous > > > > > > > > > > > > > question/response > > > > revisited > > > > > > > > > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > > > > > Date: Tuesday, > > November > > > > 10, > > > > > 2009, > > > > > > 11:50 PM Bill, > > > > > > > > > you > > > > > > > > > > got it right! The > > > > > > > > > > > T numbers > > represent the > > > > > diameter > > > > > > of the bulb in > > > > > > > > > 1/8" > > > > > > > > > > increments. A T4 > > > > > > > > > > > is a bulb 1/2" > > in > > > > diameter, > > > > > T5 is > > > > > > 5/8", t8 is > > > > > > > > > 1" and > > > > > > > > > > a t12 is 1 1/2". > > > > > > > > > > > As I recall, > > the F is > > > > the > > > > > wattage > > > > > > of the bulb. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Lumens, not > > usually > > > > stated on > > > > > the > > > > > > bulb is the > > > > > > > > > actual > > > > > > > > > > amount of light > > > > > > > > > > > coming from > > the bulb. > > > > It > > > > > really > > > > > > does not have > > > > > > > > > anything > > > > > > > > > > to do with > > > > > > > > > > > watts, though > > more watts > > > > will > > > > > give > > > > > > you more > > > > > > > > > lumens, > > > > > > > > > > but, also the > > > > > > > > > > > phosphors used > > in the > > > > bulb > > > > > affect > > > > > > the amount of > > > > > > > > > lumen > > > > > > > > > > output. Lumens > > > > > > > > > > > and lux are > > often used > > > > > > interchangeably, but they > > > > > > > > > are > > > > > > > > > > really different > > > > > > > > > > > measurements. > > Lux is > > > > the > > > > > measure > > > > > > of illumination > > > > > > > > > over > > > > > > > > > > a given area. It > > > > > > > > > > > may actually > > be more > > > > > important to > > > > > > aquarists > > > > > > > > > raising > > > > > > > > > > plants than the > > > > > > > > > > > lumen output. > > Lux is > > > > what is > > > > > > measured by a light > > > > > > > > > > meter, for anyone > > who > > > > > > > > > > > happens to > > know what > > > > they > > > > > are--not > > > > > > often seen > > > > > > > > > with > > > > > > > > > > today's cameras > > and > > > > > > > > > > > > > photographers. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Color > > temperature is > > > > > important. > > > > > > Average daylight > > > > > > > > > > (except may in > > > > > > > > > > > Amber's area > > where they > > > > have > > > > > 6 > > > > > > months of > > > > > > > > > darkness) has > > > > > > > > > > a color > > > > > > > > > > > temperature > > of > > > > 5500-6000. > > > > > > > > > > > An overcast > > day can have > > > > a > > > > > color > > > > > > temperature of > > > > > > > > > 6500. > > > > > > > > > > As mentioned > > > > > > > > > > > earlier, > > plants need > > > > light in > > > > > two > > > > > > color > > > > > > > > > spectrums, > > > > > > > > > > and, actually they > > > > > > > > > > > are rather > > narrow spans > > > > of > > > > > > wavelengths they > > > > > > > > > benefit > > > > > > > > > > from. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I thought I > > had a > > > > bookmark > > > > > > explaining this, but > > > > > > > > > I > > > > > > > > > > can't find it > > > > > > > > > > > quickly (over > > 400K of > > > > > bookmarks, > > > > > > and things have > > > > > > > > > a > > > > > > > > > > tendency to get > > > > > > > > > > > lost), > > however, some > > > > > judicial > > > > > > Googling will gain > > > > > > > > > you > > > > > > > > > > the information. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > \\Steve// > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -----Original > > > > Message----- > > > > > > > > > > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > > > > > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] > > > > > > > > > > > On > > > > > > > > > > > Behalf Of bill > > 1433 > > > > > > > > > > > Sent: Tuesday, > > November > > > > 10, > > > > > 2009 > > > > > > 10:20 PM > > > > > > > > > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > > > > > Subject: Re: > > > > [AquaticLife] > > > > > Re: > > > > > > wisteria/lighting > > > > > > > > > > previous > > > > > > > > > > > > > question/response > > > > revisited > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Yes, Amber > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > It was I, > > looking for > > > > the > > > > > original > > > > > > information > > > > > > > > > and > > > > > > > > > > also looked back > > on > > > > > > > > > > > \\Steve//'s > > post at > > > > group to > > > > > try > > > > > > and find. Ray > > > > > > > > > had > > > > > > > > > > mentioned all this > > > > > > > > > > > the other day > > saying > > > > that he > > > > > > thought the posting > > > > > > > > > came > > > > > > > > > > from \\Steve//. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I was not > > successful in > > > > my > > > > > search. > > > > > > Also, for me > > > > > > > > > the > > > > > > > > > > most important > > > > > > > > > > > part was a > > link to a > > > > chart > > > > > which > > > > > > showed you > > > > > > > > > exactly, > > > > > > > > > > or explained > > > > > > > > > > > exactly the > > "T" > > > > > > > > > > > factor stands > > for. For > > > > > instance, > > > > > > T-4 would be a > > > > > > > > > tube > > > > > > > > > > that is a half > > > > > > > > > > > inch wide, or > > close to > > > > > > it-----------I think. > > > > > > > > > All > > > > > > > > > > this is my own > > > > > > > > > > > fault. In my > > interest > > > > to > > > > > acquire > > > > > > and learn > > > > > > > > > about > > > > > > > > > > lighting,I went > > > > > > > > > > > through and > > studied the > > > > > applied > > > > > > links but being > > > > > > > > > > ol'bill, I never > > > > > > > > > > > bookmarked > > them. > > > > > > > > > > > Then to > > further > > > > > > > > > > > compound the > > problem, I > > > > > deleted > > > > > > the original > > > > > > > > > message > > > > > > > > > > that it came > > > > > > > > > > > from. In > > hind-sight you > > > > > could > > > > > > probably chalk > > > > > > > > > this > > > > > > > > > > all up to > > felonious > > > > > > > > > > > stupidity on > > my part. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Bill---where > > its always > > > > a > > > > > good day > > > > > > if I learn > > > > > > > > > > something new! > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > --- On Tue, > > 11/10/09, > > > > Amber > > > > > > Berglund <arberglund@... <mailto:arberglund%40gmail.com> > > <mailto:arberglund%40gmail.com> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > <mailto:arberglund%40gmail.com> > > > > > > > > > > > > <mailto:arberglund%40gmail.com>> > > > > > > > > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > From: Amber > > Berglund > > > > <arberglund@... <mailto:arberglund%40gmail.com> > > <mailto:arberglund%40gmail.com> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > <mailto:arberglund%40gmail.com> > > > > > > > > > > > > <mailto:arberglund%40gmail.com>> > > > > > > > > > > > Subject: Re: > > > > [AquaticLife] > > > > > Re: > > > > > > wisteria/lighting > > > > > > > > > > previous > > > > > > > > > > > > > question/response > > > > revisited > > > > > > > > > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > <br/><br/>(Message over 64 KB, truncated)

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 44483	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 11/12/2009
Subject: Re: Question about eating snails

I prefer not to eat most guts ;) It's just the female mystery snails that apparently taste really bad, the site "thinks" that it might be a defense mechanism from predation, which makes sense to me, but at the same time that'd sure leave a lot of mate-less female mystery snails out there in the wild, those few males that survive are having a hay day I'm sure ;) LOL I told my friend that I thought perhaps the dark footed ones were female and that's why they tasted bad compared to the other ones. Was just a theory. Also my API stress coat says not for human consumption, only use on ornamental fish, but doesn't say anything about snails. Maybe my friend should eat a bunch and then sue for millions when he gets really sick? LOL Amber Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > > That's why God made spices/seasonings. Almost everything would taste > bad if > it wasn't seasoned properly. I would imagine crawfish guts and crab guts > would taste bad also if not boiled in Cajun spices or marinated in Cajun > spices and then fried (for soft shell inverts). MMMMMMMMMM.. getting > hungry > again. > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right > side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) > > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On > Behalf Of Amber Berglund > Sent: Thursday, November 12, 2009 8:23 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Question about eating snails > > On applesnail.net it says not to eat the intestines and eggs because they > taste bad, so that makes enough sense to me to not eat them ;) LOL > > Amber > > Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > > > > Why don't they eat the rest? > > > > Down here, with inverts and crustaceans, we eat the whole thing... > > with boiled crawfish, we suck the heads, then pinch the tails (or with > > soft shell crawfish, we eat the whole thing fried)... we eat raw > > oysters in their entirety (innards and all) also when fried... and > > nothings better than a fried soft shell crab po-boy, which means we're > > eating all of their innards too. MMMMMMMMMM... I could go on and on > > but I'm getting hungry now so I'm off to get some lunch. > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>> > (Links to any articles referenced in > > above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels > > and also under Archives by Year, Month) > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On Behalf Of Amber Berglund > > Sent: Thursday, November 12, 2009 12:03 PM > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Question about eating snails > > > > Okay back to eating snails (darn people hijacking my thread ;) LOL). > > Could it be that it's safer to eat snails even if you use dechlor > > because you only eat the foot of the snail and not the intestines, etc? > > Just a thought, > > Amber > > > > Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > > > > > > Are you sure that wasn't a DERF shirt > > > http://www.zazzle.com/derf_tshirt-235652671296243847 > <http://www.zazzle.com/derf_tshirt-235652671296243847> > > <http://www.zazzle.com/derf_tshirt-235652671296243847 > <http://www.zazzle.com/derf_tshirt-235652671296243847>> > > > <http://www.zazzle.com/derf_tshirt-235652671296243847 > <http://www.zazzle.com/derf_tshirt-235652671296243847> > > <http://www.zazzle.com/derf_tshirt-235652671296243847 > <http://www.zazzle.com/derf_tshirt-235652671296243847>>> and you were > > > just looking in the mirror? This one even comes with your picture on > > > it. ;-) > > > > > > Kind of like them people who have REKCUS written on their foreheads. > > > ;-) > > > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>> > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>>> > > (Links to any articles referenced in > > > above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under > > > Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On Behalf Of Steve Szabo > > > Sent: Tuesday, November 10, 2009 10:08 PM > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Question about eating snails > > > > > > Amber, > > > > > > No, I don't have to. Some of the shirts come with names already on > them. > > > That one happened to be Fred. He had his name embroidered right over > > > his left pocket. They are hard to come by. I've only seen them at > > Sallie's. > > > > > > \\Steve// > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On Behalf Of Amber Berglund > > > Sent: Tuesday, November 10, 2009 9:20 PM > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Question about eating snails > > > > > > Actually no, but that one looks good ;) LOL Wait... you name your > > shirts? > > > What's your favorite shirt named right now? LOL > > > > > > Amber > > > > > > Steve Szabo wrote: > > > > > > > > Ws this the recipe? > > > > > > > > ESCARGOTS A LA FETTUCCINI > > > > > > > > 24 (7 1/2 oz. can) very lg. sized escargots, drained > > > > 4 tbsp. butter > > > > 1-2 garlic cloves, minced > > > > 1/2 pt. heavy cream > > > > 1/2 c. grated Parmesan cheese > > > > 1 pkg. frozen peas > > > > Salt and pepper > > > > 1 lb. fettuccini > > > > > > > > Drain escargots, melt butter in heavy saucepan and sauté escargot > > > > and garlic for 3 minutes. Pour in heavy cream and simmer until > > > > mixture thickens slightly. Add grated cheese, peas and seasonings. > > > > Cook a few minutes longer until escargots and sauce are hot. Do > > > > not > > overcook. > > > > > > > > While sauce is cooking place fettuccini in a pot of boiling > > > > (salted) water. > > > > Cook 3-4 minutes. Drain pasta and mix with escargots sauce until > > > > pasta is well coated. > > > > > > > > I once had a shirt named Fred. > > > > > > > > \\Steve// > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On Behalf Of Amber > > > > Berglund > > > > Sent: Tuesday, November 10, 2009 5:17 PM > > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Question about eating snails > > > > > > > > Actually if you look on applesnail.net they list recipe's for > > > > eating your snails, LOL. > > > > And do dead snails even have guts? LOL. > > > > There are 3 drivers (for now, soon to be 4 hopefully), so they'll > > > > have to narrow it down by names, so I'll have to wear a name tag > > > > that says, "Hello my name is Fred" or something, LOL. > > > > > > > > Amber > > > > > > > > Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > > > > > > > > > > Ummmm.. you (or rather your friend) shouldn't do this. Most > > > > > dechlor products EXPLICITLY advise against eating ornamental > > > > > fish (and probably critters too) that are kept in waters treated > > > > > with a dechlor product. I think the chemicals used in dechlors > > > > > cause health problems, although I doubt that five snails would > > > > > matter. I think it's more for fish farms that > > > > might > > > > > think about using Sodium Thiosulphate as their dechlor if they > > > > > did not have a natural water source for the fish stock ponds. > > > > > > > > > > As far as the different taste, could it be like other meats... > > > > chicken for > > > > > example, where the dark meat is much different in taste and > > > > > texture than white meat? > > > > > > > > > > Also, for your health, please do not post this on the > > > > > Applesnail.net forums.. you know them folks are zealous about > > > > > their snails. They might hunt you down and throw dead snail guts > > > > > on you. LOL They might even > > > > form a > > > > > new radical group called PeTS... People for the Ethical > > > > > Treatment of Snails. > > > > > LOL And if they can't find you, they might go after every other > > > > > delivery truck on your island. BTW... are you the only driver or > > > > > is Ketchikan big enough for two FedEx trucks? LOL > > > > > > > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > > > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>> > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>>> > > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>> > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>>>> > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>> > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>>> > > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>> > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>>>>> > > > > > (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on > > > > > the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under > > > > > Archives by Year, > > > > Month) > > > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On Behalf Of Amber > > > > > Berglund > > > > > Sent: Tuesday, November 10, 2009 10:59 AM > > > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > Subject: [AquaticLife] Question about eating snails > > > > > > > > > > Okay so a friend of mine was inquiring about my mystery snails > > > > > for > > > > eating > > > > > purposes. Since I have a mass quantity of the happy little guys > > > > > and > > > > gals I > > > > > figured I would give him all my large snails that are fully grown. > > > > > He ended up with 5 and cooked them up as spaghetti. Now my > > > > > question is this; why would the dark footed (purple) mystery > > > > > snails taste much saltier > > > > than the > > > > > ones with white feet? > > > > > > > > > > Sorry to offend anyone at the idea of eating snails, I've had to > > > > > do a survival trip in my lifetime and had to survive off of > > > > > limpets, so I'm sure they taste similar to limpets when cooked > > > > > up, so it doesn't really > > > > offend > > > > > me, LOL. > > > > > Not to mention the little guys are threatening to breed me out > > > > > of house and home ;) LOL. > > > > > > > > > > Amber > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ------------------------------------ > > > > > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, > > Thank You. > > > ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , > > > .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT > > > that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the > > > original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: > > > old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , > > > .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. > > > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. > > > > > > If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of > > > unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by clicking on > > > "Edit My Membership" on the home page. > > > > > > Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:aquaticlife-digest%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:aquaticlife-digest%40yahoogroups.com> > > > <mailto:aquaticlife-digest%40yahoogroups.com> to receive the digest, > > > which includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email > > > > > > Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:aquaticlife-nomail%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:aquaticlife-nomail%40yahoogroups.com> > > > <mailto:aquaticlife-nomail%40yahoogroups.com> for the No E-Mail > > > option where you will still be able to read messages on the group > > > and post replies. > > > > > > Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:aquaticlife-normal%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:aquaticlife-normal%40yahoogroups.com> > > > <mailto:aquaticlife-normal%40yahoogroups.com> to receive individual > > > e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > ------------------------------------ > > > > > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, > > Thank You. > > > ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , > > > .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT > > > that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the > > > original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: > > > old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , > > > .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. > > > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. > > > > > > If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of > > > unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by clicking on > > > "Edit My Membership" on the home page. > > > > > > Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:aquaticlife-digest%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:aquaticlife-digest%40yahoogroups.com> > > > <mailto:aquaticlife-digest%40yahoogroups.com> to receive the digest, > > > which includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email > > > > > > Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:aquaticlife-nomail%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:aquaticlife-nomail%40yahoogroups.com> > > > <mailto:aquaticlife-nomail%40yahoogroups.com> for the No E-Mail > > > option where you will still be able to read messages on the group > > > and post replies. > > > > > > Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:aquaticlife-normal%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:aquaticlife-normal%40yahoogroups.com> > > > <mailto:aquaticlife-normal%40yahoogroups.com> to receive individual > > > e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > > > > > ------------------------------------ > > > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, > Thank You. > > ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , > > .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT > > that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the > > original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: > > old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , > > .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. > > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. > > > > If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of unsubscribing, > > you can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My > > Membership" on the home page. > > > > Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:aquaticlife-digest%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:aquaticlife-digest%40yahoogroups.com> to receive the digest, > > which includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email > > > > Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:aquaticlife-nomail%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:aquaticlife-nomail%40yahoogroups.com> for the No E-Mail option > > where you will still be able to read messages on the group and post > > replies. > > > > Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:aquaticlife-normal%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:aquaticlife-normal%40yahoogroups.com> to receive individual > > e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > ------------------------------------ > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. > ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> > PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to > the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the > SUBJECT > LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- > <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. > > If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of unsubscribing, you > can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the > home page. > > Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:aquaticlife-digest%40yahoogroups.com> to receive the digest, which > includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email > > Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:aquaticlife-nomail%40yahoogroups.com> for the No E-Mail option > where > you will still be able to read messages on the group and post replies. > > Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:aquaticlife-normal%40yahoogroups.com> to receive individual > e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 44484	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 11/12/2009
Subject: Re: wisteria/lighting previous question/response revisited

F... they fail ;) Also even if they have a replacement bulb, the one at 8000k would not be a good light for a planted tank, you'd end up with a lot of algae issues I bet. Want something closer to 6000kelvin (or rather 5000-6500). Amber Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > > I guess, by "worse", you mean that their website doesn't say crap about > their products? I went to the hood for #21230 and all it has is a picture > that opens up... nothing about the lighting specs, etc. > > I'm not sure why you sent the ZZ Top vid. The one I sent was Troglodyte > which has the line about "Bertha, Bertha Butt, one of the Butt sisters"... > since I mentioned "BUT... and it's a BIG BUT...". Guess my warped sense of > humor got hold of me again. LOL > > BUT... their lighting page, once again, mentions ONLY T-8 bulbs (see 17W, > 24") but nothing else as far as lumens or K rating so overall, their > website > would get an F- rating from me. > > http://www.aqueonproducts.com/products/fluorescent-lamps-and-starters.htm > <http://www.aqueonproducts.com/products/fluorescent-lamps-and-starters.htm> > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right > side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On > Behalf Of bill 1433 > Sent: Thursday, November 12, 2009 8:13 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: wisteria/lighting previous > question/response > revisited > > Ok then here's one worse? > > http://www.aqueonproducts.com/ <http://www.aqueonproducts.com/> > > who is also All-Glass. Wait until you read the funny stuff about Hoods, > lighting and tubes. My hood is their # 21230. Check out tube size! > Check on youtube but would rather be on this one and better yet, it > goes wiwth my current mood! > > http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZHRHc5HmFHg&feature=channel > <http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZHRHc5HmFHg&feature=channel> > > Hey these boys could be neighbors, just accross the top of your state > and a > bit toward the west! Don't know about \\Steve// on this one? > > Bill > > --- On Thu, 11/12/09, Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@... > <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com>> wrote: > > > From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@... > <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com>> > > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: wisteria/lighting previous > question/response revisited > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > Date: Thursday, November 12, 2009, 8:59 PM > > OK. I did a Google and DFS > > showed up near the top for an All-Glass > > fluorescent bulb and here's the page and low and behold, > > they have a 24" 17W > > bulb listed... BUT this bulb was not showing up on any > > previous searches on > > DFS. > > > > http://www.drsfostersmith.com/product/prod_display.cfm?pcatid=12850 > <http://www.drsfostersmith.com/product/prod_display.cfm?pcatid=12850> > > > > BUT.... and it's a BIG BUT... (all the way up in the > > "Bertha" category ;-) > > *) > > > > According to that page, it's a T-8 bulb... NOT a T-4 > > bulb. Are you > > confusing radius with diameter? A 1" (T-8) diameter > > bulb would have a 1/2" > > radius so I want to make sure we're still on the right > > track. > > > > Unfortunately, according to the above page, it's an 8000K > > bulb and they do > > not list the lumens. > > > > If you do reach All-Glass, ask them about the lumens on > > that bulb and > > whether it's a T-8 or not. Or maybe if you double > > check your measuring, > > you'll find that it's a 1" diameter and a T-8 bulb. > > I'll be surprised if it > > is a T-4 bulb since I cannot find anything about a T-4 bulb > > matching your > > measurements or wattage. > > > > * BTW... who's now humming > http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VlRXQEA0yj0 > <http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VlRXQEA0yj0> ? I > > know \\Steve// is! ;-) > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed > > on the right > > side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives > > by Year, Month) > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] > > On > > Behalf Of bill 1433 > > Sent: Thursday, November 12, 2009 7:28 PM > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: wisteria/lighting previous > > question/response > > revisited > > > > Hi Len, > > > > I wrote all of this before but with going back and fourth > > so many times > > its more that possible that you missed it. Yes, it's > > a 30" fixture that has > > one > > tube in it at 24" or exactly measurements are 23" end piece > > or band to end > > piece, the tube over-all measure's 23 7/8 from pin edge to > > pin edge. > > > > Now all that being said it is stamped or printed at 17 > > Watts from All-Glass > > and the final piece of the puzzle and probably why none of > > us can find any > > information is what else is stamped or printed on the > > tube: "Made In > > Germany"! > > > > Again, I think we are on "middle ground" with the 23 > > 7/8. It could very > > well be that it is also the 22 5/16 again the "where" and > > whose is doing the > > measuring that counts. Giving all of this a lot of > > thought and the > > aggravation of it all, which is now reaching critical mass, > > I did today come > > one with one lone constructive thought. > > > > How about if I try to give All-Glass a phone call and find > > out just exactly > > what if any tubes can be used with this fixture? I > > thought originally to > > try taking it apart and getting an "eyeball" on the ballast > > but to do so > > could risk damage to the unit as it is stamped or put > > together in spots with > > those flimsy plastic tabs and I really don't want to risk > > the damage to the > > unit. > > > > Next order of business, find a phone number for these > > folks! > > > > Bill > > > > > > --- On Thu, 11/12/09, Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@... > <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com>> > > wrote: > > > > > From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@... > <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com>> > > > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: wisteria/lighting > > previous > > question/response revisited > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > Date: Thursday, November 12, 2009, 5:04 PM > > > Can you show me a link to a T-4, 17W > > > bulb? I haven't found a single one in > > > all the reading that I've been doing. Remind me how > > > long your bulbs are > > > again? I scrolled down looking and didn't see an > > > exact answer. In looking > > > at your link to DFS about your fixture, I see that for > > the > > > 29G/20G, it's 30" > > > long with the 24" bulbs but I wanted to be sure since > > every > > > site I look at > > > for T-4's, they do not come in 17W or 24" length so > > I'm > > > still thinking > > > something is wrong with your calculations or the > > reading of > > > the specs/calcs > > > that you do have. > > > > > > Here are three different sites with their lists of > > T-4 > > > bulbs and as you can > > > see, there are NO 17W bulbs and no 24" bulbs. > > > > > > http://www.lightbulbsdirect.com/page/001/CTGY/T4 > <http://www.lightbulbsdirect.com/page/001/CTGY/T4> > > > http://www.buylighting.com/T4-Fluorescent-s/102.htm > <http://www.buylighting.com/T4-Fluorescent-s/102.htm> > > > > http://www.servicelighting.com/T4-Straight-Linear-Fluorescent-Light-Bulbs > <http://www.servicelighting.com/T4-Straight-Linear-Fluorescent-Light-Bulbs> > > > > > > The closest that T-4's come are 20.5" or 22-5/16" with > > only > > > one type/brand > > > having the 22-5/16" bulb as a specialty bulb and all > > of the > > > other T-4's are > > > 20.5" and then jump up to 33 7/8" or 33.9" depending > > on the > > > site. > > > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are > > listed > > > on the right > > > side, alphabetically under Labels and also under > > Archives > > > by Year, Month) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] > > > On > > > Behalf Of bill 1433 > > > Sent: Thursday, November 12, 2009 3:27 PM > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: wisteria/lighting > > previous > > > question/response > > > revisited > > > > > > Hi Len, > > > > > > Like I said, they are a 1/2" but so far all I can > > find > > > around here > > > are "cool white" and "warm light" bulbs. > > > > > > Bill > > > > > > --- On Thu, 11/12/09, Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@... > <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com>> > > > wrote: > > > > > > > From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@... > <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com>> > > > > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: wisteria/lighting > > > previous > > > question/response revisited > > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > Date: Thursday, November 12, 2009, 3:48 PM > > > > Bulb diameter is easy. Take the > > > > bulb and place it over a ruler/tape > > > > measurer and look straight down on it. It > > should be > > > > easy to discern between > > > > 1/2" (T-4) and 1" (T-8) and the T-5 (5/8") uses > > a > > > > completely different > > > > single pin on each end so that would eliminate > > that > > > > bulb. Or better yet.. > > > > take your bulb to the WalMart and compare apples > > to > > > apples > > > > and you'll then > > > > know exactly what you have and also be able to > > see > > > what > > > > your local WalMart > > > > offers as far as better bulbs. You can probably > > get > > > > much more lighting with > > > > a new $5.00 to $10.00 bulb. > > > > > > > > Then Santa can still bring you the bigger tank > > and > > > > accessories and your > > > > other tanks will also be far more functional in > > case > > > you > > > > choose to sell them > > > > or just have more tanks. As far as selling > > your > > > > unused stuff, > > > > CraigsList.org is free and you can renew the ad > > every > > > week > > > > until you find > > > > the right buyer who is willing to pay the best > > price > > > you > > > > can get. > > > > > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > > (Links to any articles referenced in above reply > > are > > > listed > > > > on the right > > > > side, alphabetically under Labels and also under > > > Archives > > > > by Year, Month) > > > > > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] > > > > On > > > > Behalf Of bill 1433 > > > > Sent: Thursday, November 12, 2009 2:27 PM > > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: wisteria/lighting > > > previous > > > > question/response > > > > revisited > > > > > > > > Bulb Diameter Len, and now you see my problem. > > I > > > > haven't found any either. > > > > Also reading and studying all that you have sent > > me so > > > far > > > > I come away from > > > > all of this with one single thought, is it worth > > > it? > > > > > > > > > > > > With all this being said and it so close to the > > time > > > for a > > > > visit from > > > > "Santa", I'm wondering if I should not put all > > you > > > have > > > > taught me to better > > > > use by just getting something like a standard > > > 55-gallon > > > > tank! These lights > > > > do cost a bit but there is not a huge different > > > between > > > > size vs. cost from a > > > > 29 to a 55. Then to is the issue of what to do > > with > > > > the plastic covers I > > > > already have should I go to the all glass > > covers. > > > > > > > > Sell them, sure but to whom? Remember, I'm the > > guy > > > > that has a hard time > > > > just trying to find a place to buy fish around > > here, > > > there > > > > just aren't that > > > > many places or people. No matter what I do, I > > > promise > > > > to keep you posted. > > > > > > > > Thanks for all you've taught and helped me with, > > > > > > > > Bill > > > > > > > > > > > > --- On Thu, 11/12/09, Lenny V. aka GoldLenny > > <GoldLenny@... <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com>> > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@... > <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com>> > > > > > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: > > wisteria/lighting > > > > previous > > > > question/response revisited > > > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > Date: Thursday, November 12, 2009, 2:42 PM > > > > > Once again Bill.... you need to get > > > > > away from the "Watts" mindset. It's > > > > > just not applicable with the wide array of > > bulbs > > > > available > > > > > nowadays. That > > > > > link goes to a CFL light strip and 65 watts > > of > > > CFL > > > > lighting > > > > > is a LOT, LOT, > > > > > LOT (3 LOTS) more lighting than 65 watts of > > an > > > > incandescent > > > > > bulb and a LOT, > > > > > LOT (2 LOTS) more lighting than a 65W > > normal > > > > fluorescent > > > > > bulb. This would > > > > > probably increase your lighting by 10X's > > over > > > what you > > > > have > > > > > now. If you > > > > > just went with 20W (range) CFL's, you'd get > > > 2-3X's > > > > more > > > > > light than you > > > > > currently have. > > > > > > > > > > You still need to do some more research on > > your > > > > current > > > > > bulbs to find out > > > > > the specs on them. Without knowing your > > > current > > > > > specs, it's difficult to > > > > > know how much more lighting you might > > want/need. > > > > > > > > > > Since you got your fixture and bulbs from > > DFS, I > > > just > > > > did a > > > > > search of '17 > > > > > watt fluorescent' and four bulbs came up.. > > one > > > was a > > > > CFL so > > > > > that wasn't it > > > > > and the other three are below BUT none of > > them > > > are > > > > T-4's... > > > > > in fact, so far, > > > > > I have not been able to find a T-4, 17W > > bulb > > > > > anywhere. What are you > > > > > measuring to come up with the 1/2" > > figure? > > > Bulb > > > > > diameter, pin separation or > > > > > other??? > > > > > > > > > > > http://www.drsfostersmith.com/product/prod_display.cfm?pcatid=3787 > <http://www.drsfostersmith.com/product/prod_display.cfm?pcatid=3787> > > > > > (24", > > > > > T-8, 5500K, nothing for lumens) > > > > > > > > > > > http://www.drsfostersmith.com/product/prod_display.cfm?pcatid=4491 > <http://www.drsfostersmith.com/product/prod_display.cfm?pcatid=4491> > > > > > (24", > > > > > T-8, Actinic 420nm, nothing for lumens) > > > > > > > > > > > http://www.drsfostersmith.com/product/prod_display.cfm?pcatid=4489 > <http://www.drsfostersmith.com/product/prod_display.cfm?pcatid=4489> > > > > > (24", > > > > > T-8, 6500K, nothing for lumens) > > > > > > > > > > You need to take your bulb out and go to a > > local > > > > lighting > > > > > store (department) > > > > > or even the Walmart and see if they can give > > you > > > more > > > > info > > > > > on it or at least > > > > > you might find identical sized bulbs that > > do > > > have > > > > specs on > > > > > them so you can > > > > > be more informed about what you have. > > > > > > > > > > While I was at the DFS site, and since you > > > previously > > > > > mentioned that you > > > > > have an All-Glass hood that came with the > > one > > > bulb > > > > light > > > > > strip, I did a > > > > > search on DFS for 'All-Glass light' and > > found > > > this > > > > link for > > > > > the only single > > > > > bulb light strip that All-Glass has on DFS' > > > site. > > > > > > > > > > > http://www.drsfostersmith.com/product/prod_display.cfm?pcatid=3793 > <http://www.drsfostersmith.com/product/prod_display.cfm?pcatid=3793> > > > > > > > > > > It comes in 16" or 20" lengths. There's a > > link > > > to > > > > > "View compatible Bulbs" > > > > > in the Description tab, which brings up a > > page > > > of > > > > bulbs and > > > > > ALL of the ones > > > > > compatible for the 20" strip are T-8 > > bulbs. > > > There > > > > are > > > > > a couple of dozen > > > > > bulbs listed so I didn't go through them > > and > > > > unfortunately, > > > > > they do NOT list > > > > > the wattage on that list so I wasn't able to > > find > > > any > > > > 17W > > > > > bulbs without > > > > > checking a bunch of links. Since it was > > an > > > > All-Glass > > > > > fixture, I did click > > > > > on the first All-Glass brand bulb which > > brought > > > up > > > > this > > > > > page... > > > > > > > > > > > http://www.drsfostersmith.com/product/prod_display.cfm?pcatid=12850 > <http://www.drsfostersmith.com/product/prod_display.cfm?pcatid=12850> > > > > > > > > > > And you will see that there is either an > > 18", 15W > > > bulb > > > > or a > > > > > 24", 17W bulb, > > > > > as well as others... and these are the > > 8000K > > > bulbs > > > > which > > > > > were listed in the > > > > > description on the website link that you > > posted > > > > earlier > > > > > BUT.. these are ALL > > > > > T-8 bulbs, not T-4's so we're back to that > > spec > > > issue > > > > > again. This page does > > > > > call them 8000K Daylight, Full Spectrum > > bulbs so > > > maybe > > > > they > > > > > are OK but I > > > > > wish that the DFS site would list lumens > > since > > > that is > > > > a > > > > > critical, > > > > > need-to-know piece of information that is > > > missing. > > > > As > > > > > seen in my previous > > > > > posts, the same sized bulbs can have a > > lumen > > > output > > > > that is > > > > > 50% to 100% > > > > > higher than a comparable bulb of the same > > size... > > > and > > > > that > > > > > makes a HUGE > > > > > difference in lighting. > > > > > > > > > > Once again, take the bulb to your WalMart > > and > > > compare > > > > > apples to apples and > > > > > find out exactly what size bulb you have > > and > > > while > > > > there, > > > > > look at other > > > > > identical sized bulbs and look for the > > highest > > > lumens > > > > in > > > > > the 5000K to 6500K > > > > > range, buy one and bring it home and see if > > it's > > > a > > > > LOT > > > > > brighter than what > > > > > you now have. If so, that might do the > > trick. > > > > > > > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > > > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > > > (Links to any articles referenced in above > > reply > > > are > > > > listed > > > > > on the right > > > > > side, alphabetically under Labels and also > > under > > > > Archives > > > > > by Year, Month) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] > > > > > On > > > > > Behalf Of bill 1433 > > > > > Sent: Thursday, November 12, 2009 12:12 PM > > > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: > > wisteria/lighting > > > > previous > > > > > question/response > > > > > revisited > > > > > > > > > > Hi Amber, > > > > > > > > > > The links Len provided are very close BUT > > it's > > > the > > > > ends of > > > > > the tube or pins > > > > > that worry me. They are very close but > > "how"? > > > > > > > > > > Meaning this buying the tube, ok by mail? > > Now > > > what > > > > if > > > > > it doesn't work? > > > > > Rreturn a $10.00 tube the postage would > > cost > > > more. > > > > > I'm trying to work > > > > > backward now from Len's link, and get a > > > manufacture so > > > > I > > > > > can buy around > > > > > here. Also I'm getting made enough now to > > > scrape > > > > the > > > > > whole thing and just > > > > > get a new All-Glass cover then maybe one of > > > these: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > http://www.drsfostersmith.com/product/prod_display.cfm?c=3578+3733+9654+9871 > <http://www.drsfostersmith.com/product/prod_display.cfm?c=3578+3733+9654+9871> > > > > > &pcatid=9871 > > > > > > > > > > This link is not pointing to the exact > > Coralife > > > > product I > > > > > want at Doctors > > > > > its # apn-16981, if you have their catalog > > but I > > > can't > > > > make > > > > > it come up on > > > > > search at their site. It is a single rated > > at > > > 65 > > > > > watts and is 24". > > > > > > > > > > Bill > > > > > --- On Thu, 11/12/09, Amber Berglund <arberglund@... > <mailto:arberglund%40gmail.com>> > > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > From: Amber Berglund <arberglund@... > <mailto:arberglund%40gmail.com>> > > > > > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: > > > wisteria/lighting > > > > > previous > > > > > question/response revisited > > > > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > Date: Thursday, November 12, 2009, > > 12:59 PM > > > > > > Bill does have T-4's if I remember > > > > > > correctly, maybe one of those 20watt > > > > > > bulbs will work for him and provide > > more > > > lumens > > > > than > > > > > his > > > > > > current bulbs do. > > > > > > Did you check those links out Bill? ;) > > > > > > > > > > > > Amber > > > > > > > > > > > > Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Just because a fixture currently > > has a > > > T-8 > > > > or > > > > > T-10, > > > > > > does not mean it > > > > > > > cannot > > > > > > > use a T-12, and vice versa. They > > are > > > all > > > > medium > > > > > bi-pin > > > > > > bulbs, meaning they > > > > > > > all will fit and work UNLESS the > > > reflector > > > > is so > > > > > tight > > > > > > that a T-12 cannot > > > > > > > fit inside the fixture but I > > haven't > > > seen > > > > this as > > > > > a > > > > > > problem in the past. > > > > > > > Usually, going with a T-8 or > > T-10, > > > instead > > > > of a > > > > > T-12 > > > > > > will give more lumens > > > > > > > but in the case of this > > particular > > > sized > > > > bulb, > > > > > the > > > > > > T-12 may be the better > > > > > > > option. Of course, we still need > > more > > > > details on > > > > > > Bill's exact bulb. We > > > > > > > still do not know anything except > > that > > > it's > > > > 17 > > > > > > watts... nothing about > > > > > > > lumens, K rating or anything else > > for > > > > comparison > > > > > > purposes. As Johnny 5 > > > > > > > once > > > > > > > said... "Need more input!" (I have > > no > > > clue > > > > why > > > > > that > > > > > > OLD movie line popped > > > > > > > into my head and I can't blame it > > on > > > drugs > > > > since > > > > > I > > > > > > didn't/don't do them... > > > > > > > and as far as I know, beer > > doesn't > > > cause > > > > acid > > > > > > flashbacks. LOL > > > > > > > http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Short_Circuit > <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Short_Circuit> > > > > > > > <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Short_Circuit > <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Short_Circuit>>) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Now... thinking back a little. > > Bill > > > may > > > > have > > > > > T-4's and > > > > > > if he does, those > > > > > > > use the miniature bi-pin base and > > the > > > above > > > > > larger > > > > > > T-#'s with medium > > > > > > > bi-pin > > > > > > > base would not work. If this is > > the > > > case, > > > > there > > > > > are > > > > > > other options > > > > > > > listed on > > > > > > > this page... > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > http://www.servicelighting.com/T4-Straight-Linear-Fluorescent-Light-Bulbs > <http://www.servicelighting.com/T4-Straight-Linear-Fluorescent-Light-Bulbs> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > <http://www.servicelighting.com/T4-Straight-Linear-Fluorescent-Light-Bulbs > <http://www.servicelighting.com/T4-Straight-Linear-Fluorescent-Light-Bulbs>> > > > > > > > including this 20W, 6400K, 1340 > > Lumens > > > bulb > > > > - > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > http://www.servicelighting.com/Bulbrite-85220-F20T4-64K-F20T4-D-T4-Straight- > <http://www.servicelighting.com/Bulbrite-85220-F20T4-64K-F20T4-D-T4-Straight-> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > <http://www.servicelighting.com/Bulbrite-85220-F20T4-64K-F20T4-D-T4-Straight > <http://www.servicelighting.com/Bulbrite-85220-F20T4-64K-F20T4-D-T4-Straight> > > > > > -> > > > > > > > Linear-Fluorescent-Light-Bulb, > > which > > > sounds > > > > like > > > > > a > > > > > > pretty good bulb > > > > > > > from the > > > > > > > specs and actually provides more > > lumens > > > than > > > > any > > > > > of > > > > > > the T-12's previously > > > > > > > listed. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > > > > > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>> > > > > > > > (Links to any articles referenced > > in > > > above > > > > reply > > > > > are > > > > > > listed on the right > > > > > > > side, alphabetically under Labels > > and > > > also > > > > under > > > > > > Archives by Year, Month) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > > > > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > > > > > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On > > > > > > > Behalf Of Amber Berglund > > > > > > > Sent: Thursday, November 12, 2009 > > 10:29 > > > AM > > > > > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: > > > > wisteria/lighting > > > > > > previous > > > > > > > question/response > > > > > > > revisited > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Bill has smaller bulbs, I think > > they > > > are not > > > > easy > > > > > to > > > > > > find in a higher > > > > > > > wattage output, which is what he > > was > > > looking > > > > for > > > > > a few > > > > > > months back. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Amber > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I don't know what you mean > > by > > > this. > > > > Please > > > > > > elaborate. What size tube? > > > > > > > > I posted about several > > different > > > bulbs > > > > but > > > > > all > > > > > > were T-12's, which is > > > > > > > > one of the most common > > sizes. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > > > > > > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > > > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>> > > > > > > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>>> > > > > > > > (Links to any articles referenced > > in > > > > > > > > above reply are listed on > > the > > > right > > > > side, > > > > > > alphabetically under Labels > > > > > > > > and also under Archives by > > Year, > > > > Month) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > > > > > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On > > > > > > Behalf Of bill 1433 > > > > > > > > Sent: Thursday, November 12, > > 2009 > > > 8:59 > > > > AM > > > > > > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] > > Re: > > > > > wisteria/lighting > > > > > > previous > > > > > > > > question/response revisited > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Yes Len, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > But its finding that size > > tube > > > with > > > > more of > > > > > > anything that's the problem. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Bill > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > --- On Wed, 11/11/09, Lenny > > V. > > > aka > > > > > GoldLenny > > > > > > <GoldLenny@... <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com> > > > > > > > > > > > > <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com>> > > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > From: Lenny V. aka > > GoldLenny > > > > <GoldLenny@... <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com> > > > > > > > > > > > > <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com>> > > > > > > > > > Subject: RE: > > [AquaticLife] > > > Re: > > > > > > wisteria/lighting previous > > > > > > > > > question/response > > revisited > > > > > > > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > > > Date: Wednesday, > > November > > > 11, > > > > 2009, > > > > > 5:22 PM > > > > > > Well, if you only have > > > > > > > > > 17W, then you could > > > definitely do > > > > > better > > > > > > with the 20W, higher lumen, > > > > > > > > > better K rating bulbs > > that I > > > > > mentioned. > > > > > > Considering the lumen > > > > > > > > > ratings of fluorescent > > bulbs > > > I've > > > > > looked at, > > > > > > your 17W bulbs might > > > > > > > > > only have 500-700 > > lumens > > > where the > > > > BEST > > > > > 20W > > > > > > bulb (below) has > > > > > > > > > 1075 lumens so you > > > > > > > > > could possibly increase > > your > > > > lighting > > > > > by 50% > > > > > > to 100% just by > > > > > > > > > changing to that bulb. > > At > > > least, > > > > with > > > > > that > > > > > > bulb, you'll be in the > > > > > > > > > low-light range for > > plants on > > > the > > > > 20G > > > > > but > > > > > > the 29G will need some work. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Of course, you should > > find > > > out > > > > what > > > > > the > > > > > > lumens and K ratings are on > > > > > > > > > the bulbs you have so > > you'll > > > know > > > > if > > > > > you are > > > > > > getting a small jump or > > > > > > > > > a BIG jump in lighting > > just > > > by > > > > changing > > > > > your > > > > > > bulbs. Check your local > > > > > > > > > WalMart for bulbs. My > > nearby > > > > WalMart > > > > > > SuperCenter has a really big > > > > > > > > > assortment of > > fluorescent > > > tubes > > > > and > > > > > they > > > > > > were cheaper than the Home > > > > > > > > > Depot. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Something else I'm > > thinking > > > about > > > > for > > > > > you is > > > > > > going with 18" > > > > > > > > > light-sticks on > > > > > > > > > each end of your 29G > > tank or > > > front > > > > or > > > > > back > > > > > > (back would hide it best > > > > > > > > > but you decide your > > best > > > > aesthetics) > > > > > and > > > > > > you'd have to make a DIY > > > > > > > > > reflector for it (white > > > poster > > > > board > > > > > and > > > > > > scotch tape would work) and > > > > > > > > > that would get more > > lighting > > > down > > > > to > > > > > the > > > > > > bottom level plants in the > > > > > > > > > 29G. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > > > > > > > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > > > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>> > > > > > > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>>> > > > > > > > (Links to any articles > > > > > > > > > referenced in above > > reply > > > are > > > > listed on > > > > > the > > > > > > right side, > > > > > > > > > alphabetically under > > Labels > > > and > > > > also > > > > > under > > > > > > Archives by Year, Month) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -----Original > > Message----- > > > > > > > > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > > > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] > > > > > > > > > On > > > > > > > > > Behalf Of bill 1433 > > > > > > > > > Sent: Wednesday, > > November 11, > > > 2009 > > > > 3:42 > > > > > PM > > > > > > > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > > > Subject: RE: > > [AquaticLife] > > > Re: > > > > > > wisteria/lighting previous > > > > > > > > > question/response > > revisited > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > It is what it is type > > of > > > thing > > > > Len. > > > > > Site > > > > > > says one thing but stamped > > > > > > > > > or printed right on the > > tube > > > is at > > > > 17 > > > > > > watts. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Bill > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > --- On Wed, 11/11/09, > > Lenny > > > V. > > > > aka > > > > > GoldLenny > > > > > > <GoldLenny@... <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com> > > > > > > > > > > > > <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com>> > > > > > > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > From: Lenny V. aka > > > GoldLenny > > > > > <GoldLenny@... <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com> > > > > > > > > > > > > <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com>> > > > > > > > > > > Subject: RE: > > > [AquaticLife] > > > > Re: > > > > > > wisteria/lighting > > > > > > > > > previous > > > > > > > > > > question/response > > > revisited > > > > > > > > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > > > > Date: Wednesday, > > > November > > > > 11, > > > > > 2009, > > > > > > 2:16 PM The > > > > > > > > > problem might be this > > > > > > > > > > statement in the > > > > description... > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > "... Hoods include > > > 8000ºK > > > > > bulb... > > > > > > ...20W, 24"..." > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > That's getting into > > the > > > > higher > > > > > > green/blue Kelvin > > > > > > > > > range... > > > > > > > > > > closer to the > > > > > > > > > > 10,000K actinic > > type > > > bulbs... > > > > than > > > > > the > > > > > > 5000K to 6500K > > > > > > > > > "Daylight" bulbs > > > > > > > > > > that provide full > > > spectrum > > > > > lighting. > > > > > > It's also only > > > > > > > > > a 20W bulb > > > > > > > > > > (according to the > > DFS > > > site, > > > > > although > > > > > > you stated it was > > > > > > > > > only 17W so > > > > > > > > > > double check this) > > so > > > it's > > > > only > > > > > 1WPG on > > > > > > the 20G and > > > > > > > > > only 0.69WPG on > > > > > > > > > > the 29G. Of course, > > if > > > the > > > > bulb > > > > > puts > > > > > > out a LOT more > > > > > > > > > lumens (you would > > > > > > > > > > have to do more > > checking > > > up > > > > on the > > > > > bulb > > > > > > to find this), > > > > > > > > > that would help > > > > > > > > > > a little but not > > much. > > > I > > > > think you > > > > > need > > > > > > at least > > > > > > > > > 1WPG to have success > > > > > > > > > > with low-light > > plants, > > > > although > > > > > > floating plants like > > > > > > > > > Anacharis, > > > > > > > > > > Hornwort, > > Duckweed, > > > etc., > > > > would be > > > > > up > > > > > > close to the > > > > > > > > > light and benefit > > > > > > > > > > from CO2 from the > > air > > > and > > > > would do > > > > > OK > > > > > > with your > > > > > > > > > lighting... but then > > > > > > > > > > they would also > > block > > > out > > > > the > > > > > lighting > > > > > > to the rest of > > > > > > > > > the tank. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I don't see a lot > > of > > > options, > > > > as > > > > > far as > > > > > > T-8 bulbs are > > > > > > > > > concerned for > > > > > > > > > > this size fixture > > but I > > > see a > > > > few > > > > > > different T-12's... > > > > > > > > > such as... > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > (My rating is: GOOD > > - > > > but > > > > see > > > > > BETTER > > > > > > and BEST options > > > > > > > > > below... at > > > > > > > > > > least as far as > > the > > > bulbs on > > > > this > > > > > site > > > > > > are concerned) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > http://www.servicelighting.com/Sylvania-22119-F20T12-DSGN50-T12-Straig > <http://www.servicelighting.com/Sylvania-22119-F20T12-DSGN50-T12-Straig> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > <http://www.servicelighting.com/Sylvania-22119-F20T12-DSGN50-T12-Straig > <http://www.servicelighting.com/Sylvania-22119-F20T12-DSGN50-T12-Straig>> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > <http://www.servicelighting.com/Sylvania-22119-F20T12-DSGN50-T12-Strai > <http://www.servicelighting.com/Sylvania-22119-F20T12-DSGN50-T12-Strai> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > <http://www.servicelighting.com/Sylvania-22119-F20T12-DSGN50-T12-Strai > <http://www.servicelighting.com/Sylvania-22119-F20T12-DSGN50-T12-Strai>> > > > > > > > > g> > > > > > > > > > > ht-Lin > > > > > > > > > > > > > ear-Fluorescent-Light-Bulb > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Light Output: 880 > > > lumens > > > > > > > > > > Refers to the > > literal > > > measure > > > > of > > > > > the > > > > > > light-output of a > > > > > > > > > particular > > > > > > > > > > light bulb, > > measured in > > > the > > > > number > > > > > of > > > > > > lumens. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Energy Used: 20 > > watts > > > > > > > > > > "Watts" is the > > term > > > applied > > > > to > > > > > the > > > > > > amount of energy > > > > > > > > > required and used > > > > > > > > > > by a particular > > light > > > bulb. > > > > It is > > > > > an > > > > > > international > > > > > > > > > system unit of > > > > > > > > > > power equal to one > > joule > > > per > > > > > second. > > > > > > Contrary to > > > > > > > > > popular belief, the > > > > > > > > > > wattage of a bulb > > does > > > not > > > > > directly > > > > > > measure the > > > > > > > > > brightness; the > > > > > > > > > > "lumens" of a light > > is > > > what > > > > > defines the > > > > > > actual light > > > > > > > > > output. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Average Lifetime: > > 9,000 > > > > hours > > > > > > > > > > This refers to an > > > average > > > > > lifetime > > > > > > rating based on > > > > > > > > > large quantities in > > > > > > > > > > test groups. This > > > testing > > > > takes > > > > > into > > > > > > account usage of > > > > > > > > > 3 hours per > > > > > > > > > > start for > > fluorescent > > > lamps > > > > and > > > > > 10 > > > > > > hours per start for > > > > > > > > > HID lamps. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Bulb Type: T12 > > > > > > > > > > The "Bulb Type" is > > > typically > > > > a > > > > > > combination of the > > > > > > > > > style of bulb as > > > > > > > > > > well as the width > > of > > > the > > > > bulb. > > > > > Usually, > > > > > > the first > > > > > > > > > couple letters will > > > > > > > > > > indicate the type; > > "G" > > > would > > > > > indicate > > > > > > "Globe", "PAR" > > > > > > > > > would indicate > > > > > > > > > > "Parabolic > > Reflector"... > > > The > > > > > numbers > > > > > > indicate the > > > > > > > > > diameter of the > > > > > > > > > > light bulb in > > eighths of > > > an > > > > inch; > > > > > a > > > > > > "G40" would be a > > > > > > > > > "Globe" style > > > > > > > > > > that is "5 inches" > > in > > > > diameter. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Base Type: Medium > > > Bi-Pin > > > > > > > > > > The "Base" of a > > light > > > bulb is > > > > the > > > > > part > > > > > > that either > > > > > > > > > screws or snaps > > > > > > > > > > into a receptacle. > > Base > > > Type > > > > > > terminology may indicate > > > > > > > > > common > > > > > > > > > > descriptive words > > like > > > > "Medium" > > > > > or > > > > > > "Candelabra", or > > > > > > > > > may even contain > > > > > > > > > > numeric codes that > > > signify > > > > size > > > > > and > > > > > > variety, like > > > > > > > > > "E26" or "2GX13". > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Color Temperature: > > > 5,000K > > > > > > > > > > Correlated Color > > > Temperature > > > > (CCT) > > > > > is a > > > > > > specification > > > > > > > > > of the color > > > > > > > > > > appearance of a > > lamp, > > > > relating > > > > > its > > > > > > color to that of a > > > > > > > > > reference source > > > > > > > > > > heated to a > > particular > > > > > temperature, > > > > > > measured in > > > > > > > > > degrees Kelvin (K). It > > > > > > > > > > generally measures > > the > > > > "warmth" > > > > > or > > > > > > "coolness" of light > > > > > > > > > source > > > > > > > > > > appearance. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > CRI: 90 > > > > > > > > > > CRI refers to the > > > "Color > > > > > Rendering > > > > > > Index" of a light > > > > > > > > > bulb. > > > > > > > > > > CRI measures a > > > > > > > > > > light source and > > grades > > > its > > > > > ability to > > > > > > render the > > > > > > > > > color of objects > > > > > > > > > > "correctly," as > > compared > > > with > > > > a > > > > > > reference source with > > > > > > > > > comparable color > > > > > > > > > > temperature. 100 > > is > > > perfect > > > > > rendering. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Length: 24 inches > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > (BETTER - slightly > > > higher > > > > lumens > > > > > and > > > > > > higher 6500K > > > > > > > > > rating) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > http://www.servicelighting.com/Westinghouse-36516-F20T12-FS-T12-Straig > <http://www.servicelighting.com/Westinghouse-36516-F20T12-FS-T12-Straig> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > <http://www.servicelighting.com/Westinghouse-36516-F20T12-FS-T12-Straig > <http://www.servicelighting.com/Westinghouse-36516-F20T12-FS-T12-Straig>> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > <http://www.servicelighting.com/Westinghouse-36516-F20T12-FS-T12-Strai > <http://www.servicelighting.com/Westinghouse-36516-F20T12-FS-T12-Strai> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > <http://www.servicelighting.com/Westinghouse-36516-F20T12-FS-T12-Strai > <http://www.servicelighting.com/Westinghouse-36516-F20T12-FS-T12-Strai>> > > > > > > > > g> > > > > > > > > > > ht-Lin > > > > > > > > > > > > > ear-Fluorescent-Light-Bulb > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Light Output: 900 > > > lumens > > > > > > > > > > Energy Used: 20 > > watts > > > > > > > > > > Average Lifetime: > > > 10,000 > > > > hours > > > > > > > > > > Bulb Type: T12 > > > > > > > > > > Base Type: Medium > > > Bi-Pin > > > > > > > > > > Color Temperature: > > > 6,500K > > > > > > > > > > CRI: 90 > > > > > > > > > > Length: 24 inches > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > (BEST, of these > > three - > > > > around > > > > > 20% > > > > > > higher lumens and > > > > > > > > > good 6,500K > > > > > > > > > > rating, although it > > does > > > have > > > > a > > > > > lower > > > > > > CRI rating.. but > > > > > > > > > still > > > > > > > > > > passing) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > http://www.servicelighting.com/Sylvania-22083-F20T12-D-T12-Straight-Li > <http://www.servicelighting.com/Sylvania-22083-F20T12-D-T12-Straight-Li> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > <http://www.servicelighting.com/Sylvania-22083-F20T12-D-T12-Straight-Li > <http://www.servicelighting.com/Sylvania-22083-F20T12-D-T12-Straight-Li>> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > <http://www.servicelighting.com/Sylvania-22083-F20T12-D-T12-Straight-L > <http://www.servicelighting.com/Sylvania-22083-F20T12-D-T12-Straight-L> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > <http://www.servicelighting.com/Sylvania-22083-F20T12-D-T12-Straight-L > <http://www.servicelighting.com/Sylvania-22083-F20T12-D-T12-Straight-L>> > > > > > > > > i> > > > > > > > > > > near-F > > > > > > > > > > > > luorescent-Light-Bulb > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Light Output: > > 1,075 > > > lumens > > > > > > > > > > Energy Used: 20 > > watts > > > > > > > > > > Average Lifetime: > > 9,000 > > > > hours > > > > > > > > > > Bulb Type: T12 > > > > > > > > > > Base Type: Medium > > > Bi-Pin > > > > > > > > > > Color Temperature: > > > 6,500K > > > > > > > > > > CRI: 76 > > > > > > > > > > Length: 24 inches > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Compare the above > > three > > > to > > > > what is > > > > > sold > > > > > > as a > > > > > > > > > plant/aquarium light by > > > > > > > > > > the same company, > > which > > > has > > > > a > > > > > lower > > > > > > lumens, MUCH lower > > > > > > > > > CRI rating and > > > > > > > > > > does not list the > > K > > > rating > > > > other > > > > > than > > > > > > to say "Plant" > > > > > > > > > which is a > > > > > > > > > > subjective rating > > > established > > > > by > > > > > the > > > > > > manufacturer. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > (WORST) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > http://www.servicelighting.com/Westinghouse-36411-F20T12-PL-T12-Straig > <http://www.servicelighting.com/Westinghouse-36411-F20T12-PL-T12-Straig> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > <http://www.servicelighting.com/Westinghouse-36411-F20T12-PL-T12-Straig > <http://www.servicelighting.com/Westinghouse-36411-F20T12-PL-T12-Straig>> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > <http://www.servicelighting.com/Westinghouse-36411-F20T12-PL-T12-Strai > <http://www.servicelighting.com/Westinghouse-36411-F20T12-PL-T12-Strai> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > <http://www.servicelighting.com/Westinghouse-36411-F20T12-PL-T12-Strai > <http://www.servicelighting.com/Westinghouse-36411-F20T12-PL-T12-Strai>> > > > > > > > > g> > > > > > > > > > > ht-Lin > > > > > > > > > > > > > ear-Fluorescent-Light-Bulb > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Light Output: 700 > > > lumens > > > > (over 30% > > > > > less > > > > > > lighting > > > > > > > > > than the 1,075 > > > > > > > > > > lumens bulb > > > > > > > > > > above) > > > > > > > > > > Energy Used: 20 > > watts > > > > > > > > > > Average Lifetime: > > > 10,000 > > > > hours > > > > > > > > > > Bulb Type: T12 > > > > > > > > > > Base Type: Medium > > > Bi-Pin > > > > > > > > > > Color: Plant > > > > > > > > > > CRI: 61 > > > > > > > > > > Length: 24 inches > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > If any of the > > above > > > have > > > > much > > > > > better > > > > > > lumens than your > > > > > > > > > current > > > > > > > > > > lighting... > > > > > > > > > > and they all have > > better > > > K > > > > > ratings, > > > > > > then any of them > > > > > > > > > would be better > > > > > > > > > > for you... but you > > > would > > > > still be > > > > > stuck > > > > > > with only 20 > > > > > > > > > watts but it's > > > > > > > > > > the LUMENS and K > > rating > > > that > > > > count > > > > > more > > > > > > than watts. > > > > > > > > > You need to find > > > > > > > > > > out the lumens on > > your > > > bulb. > > > > Try > > > > > to > > > > > > find it on the > > > > > > > > > DFS site and let > > > > > > > > > > us know. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > You should look at > > the > > > > > AHSupply.com > > > > > > place for a > > > > > > > > > retrofit kit so you > > > > > > > > > > can use CFL's in > > your > > > > current > > > > > hood. > > > > > > That would > > > > > > > > > probably be your least > > > > > > > > > > expensive option. I > > know > > > you > > > > don't > > > > > like > > > > > > electricity > > > > > > > > > but I'm sure you > > > > > > > > > > know someone that > > could > > > do > > > > this > > > > > for > > > > > > you... on the > > > > > > > > > cheap... or over a > > > > > > > > > > 6-pack. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > > > > > > > > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > > > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>> > > > > > > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>>> > > > > > > > (Links to > > > > > > > > > any articles > > > > > > > > > > referenced in > > above > > > reply > > > > are > > > > > listed on > > > > > > the right > > > > > > > > > side, alphabetically > > > > > > > > > > under Labels and > > also > > > under > > > > > Archives by > > > > > > Year, Month) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -----Original > > > Message----- > > > > > > > > > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > > > > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] > > > > > > > > > > On > > > > > > > > > > Behalf Of bill > > 1433 > > > > > > > > > > Sent: Wednesday, > > > November 11, > > > > 2009 > > > > > 9:33 > > > > > > AM > > > > > > > > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > > > > Subject: RE: > > > [AquaticLife] > > > > Re: > > > > > > wisteria/lighting > > > > > > > > > previous > > > > > > > > > > question/response > > > > > > > > > > revisited > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Hi \\Steve// > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > At this point, and > > also > > > to > > > > refresh > > > > > your > > > > > > mind, and > > > > > > > > > anyone > > > > > > > > > > else on the group > > > > > > > > > > that may have > > interest. > > > This > > > > all > > > > > got > > > > > > started with > > > > > > > > > my > > > > > > > > > > search for a tube > > that > > > > > > > > > > would allow me > > more > > > light > > > > output > > > > > from > > > > > > an All Glass > > > > > > > > > Plastic > > > > > > > > > > hood and light. > > > > > > > > > > This unit comes > > with a > > > "color > > > > type > > > > > tube > > > > > > at 17 watts > > > > > > > > > that is > > > > > > > > > > only 24 inches > > > > > > > > > > long. This is for > > a > > > > 20/29-gallon > > > > > tank. > > > > > > I was stupid enough to buy > > > > > > > > > > two of them, one > > for > > > each > > > > tank. > > > > > For > > > > > > further inspection > > > > > > > > > here > > > > > > > > > > is the light: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > http://www.drsfostersmith.com/product/prod_display.cfm?pcatid=13447 > <http://www.drsfostersmith.com/product/prod_display.cfm?pcatid=13447> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > <http://www.drsfostersmith.com/product/prod_display.cfm?pcatid=13447 > <http://www.drsfostersmith.com/product/prod_display.cfm?pcatid=13447>> > > > > > > > > > > > > <http://www.drsfostersmith.com/product/prod_display.cfm?pcatid=13447 > <http://www.drsfostersmith.com/product/prod_display.cfm?pcatid=13447> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > <http://www.drsfostersmith.com/product/prod_display.cfm?pcatid=13447 > <http://www.drsfostersmith.com/product/prod_display.cfm?pcatid=13447>>> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > For those that > > would > > > like to > > > > > aggravate > > > > > > themselves > > > > > > > > > further, > > > > > > > > > > I can also state > > > > > > > > > > that these hoods > > are > > > very > > > > > conducive to > > > > > > growing Black Algae! > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Summoning up, I > > should > > > have > > > > only > > > > > > purchased an > > > > > > > > > All-Glass > > > > > > > > > > cover and then > > > > > > > > > > probably a double > > tube > > > light > > > > of > > > > > > sufficient wattage to > > > > > > > > > bring > > > > > > > > > > me up to the > > > > > > > > > > recommended 2 or 3 > > watts > > > per > > > > > gallon. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Ya live and learn, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Bill > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > --- On Tue, > > 11/10/09, > > > Steve > > > > Szabo > > > > > > <steve@... <mailto:steve%40familyszabo.com> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > <mailto:steve%40familyszabo.com> > > > > > > > > > > > > <mailto:steve%40familyszabo.com>> > > > > > > > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > From: Steve > > Szabo > > > <steve@... <mailto:steve%40familyszabo.com> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > <mailto:steve%40familyszabo.com> > > > > > > > > > > > > <mailto:steve%40familyszabo.com>> > > > > > > > > > > > Subject: RE: > > > > [AquaticLife] > > > > > Re: > > > > > > wisteria/lighting > > > > > > > > > > previous > > > > > > > > > > > > > question/response > > > > revisited > > > > > > > > > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > > > > > Date: > > Tuesday, > > > November > > > > 10, > > > > > 2009, > > > > > > 11:50 PM Bill, > > > > > > > > > you > > > > > > > > > > got it right! The > > > > > > > > > > > T numbers > > represent > > > the > > > > > diameter > > > > > > of the bulb in > > > > > > > > > 1/8" > > > > > > > > > > increments. A T4 > > > > > > > > > > > is a bulb 1/2" > > in > > > > diameter, > > > > > T5 is > > > > > > 5/8", t8 is > > > > > > > > > 1" and > > > > > > > > > > a t12 is 1 1/2". > > > > > > > > > > > As I recall, > > the F > > > is > > > > the > > > > > wattage > > > > > > of the bulb. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Lumens, not > > > usually > > > > stated on > > > > > the > > > > > > bulb is the > > > > > > > > > actual > > > > > > > > > > amount of light > > > > > > > > > > > coming from > > the > > > bulb. > > > > It > > > > > really > > > > > > does not have > > > > > > > > > anything > > > > > > > > > > to do with > > > > > > > > > > > watts, though > > more > > > watts > > > > will > > > > > give > > > > > > you more > > > > > > > > > lumens, > > > > > > > > > > but, also the > > > > > > > > > > > phosphors used > > in > > > the > > > > bulb > > > > > affect > > > > > > the amount of > > > > > > > > > lumen > > > > > > > > > > output. Lumens > > > > > > > > > > > and lux are > > often > > > used > > > > > > interchangeably, but they > > > > > > > > > are > > > > > > > > > > really different > > > > > > > > > > > measurements. > > Lux > > > is > > > > the > > > > > measure > > > > > > of illumination > > > > > > > > > over > > > > > > > > > > a given area. It > > > > > > > > > > > may actually > > be > > > more > > > > > important to > > > > > > aquarists > > > > > > > > > raising > > > > > > > > > > plants than the > > > > > > > > > > > lumen output. > > Lux > > > is > > > > what is > > > > > > measured by a light > > > > > > > > > > meter, for anyone > > who > > > > > > > > > > > happens to > > know > > > what > > > > they > > > > > are--not > > > > > > often seen > > > > > > > > > with > > > > > > > > > > today's cameras > > and > > > > > > > > > > > > > photographers. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Color > > temperature > > > is > > > > > important. > > > > > > Average daylight > > > > > > > > > > (except may in > > > > > > > > > > > Amber's area > > where > > > they > > > > have > > > > > 6 > > > > > > months of > > > > > > > > > darkness) has > > > > > > > > > > a color > > > > > > > > > > > temperature > > of > > > > 5500-6000. > > > > > > > > > > > An overcast > > day can > > > have > > > > a > > > > > color > > > > > > temperature of > > > > > > > > > 6500. > > > > > > > > > > As mentioned > > > > > > > > > > > earlier, > > plants > > > need > > > > light in > > > > > two > > > > > > color > > > > > > > > > spectrums, > > > > > > > > > > and, actually they > > > > > > > > > > > are rather > > narrow > > > spans > > > > of > > > > > > wavelengths they > > > > > > > > > benefit > > > > > > > > > > from. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I thought I > > had a > > > > bookmark > > > > > > explaining this, but > > > > > > > > > I > > > > > > > > > > can't find it > > > > > > > > > > > quickly (over > > 400K > > > of > > > > > bookmarks, > > > > > > and things have > > > > > > > > > a > > > > > > > > > > tendency to get > > > > > > > > > > > lost), > > however, > > > some > > > > > judicial > > > > > > Googling will gain > > > > > > > > > you > > > > > > > > > > the information. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > \\Steve// > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -----Original > > > > Message----- > > > > > > > > > > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > > > > > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] > > > > > > > > > > > On > > > > > > > > > > > Behalf Of > > bill > > > 1433 > > > > > > > > > > > Sent: > > Tuesday, > > > November > > > > 10, > > > > > 2009 > > > > > > 10:20 PM > > > > > > > > > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > > > > > Subject: Re: > > > > [AquaticLife] > > > > > Re: > > > > > > wisteria/lighting > > > > > > > > > > previous > > > > > > > > > > > > > question/response > > > > revisited > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Yes, Amber > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > It was I, > > looking > > > for > > > > the > > > > > original > > > > > > information > > > > > > > > > and > > > > > > > > > > also looked back > > on > > > > > > > > > > > \\Steve//'s > > post > > > at > > > > group to > > > > > try > > > > > > and find. Ray > > > > > > > > > had > > > > > > > > > > mentioned all this > > > > > > > > > > > the other day > > > saying > > > > that he > > > > > > thought the posting > > > > > > > > > came > > > > > > > > > > from \\Steve//. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I was not > > > successful in > > > > my > > > > > search. > > > > > > Also, for me > > > > > > > > > the > > > > > > > > > > most important > > > > > > > > > > > part was a > > link to > > > a > > > > chart > > > > > which > > > > > > showed you > > > > > > > > > exactly, > > > > > > > > > > or explained > > > > > > > > > > > exactly the > > "T" > > > > > > > > > > > factor stands > > for. > > > For > > > > > instance, > > > > > > T-4 would be a > > > > > > > > > tube > > > > > > > > > > that is a half > > > > > > > > > > > inch wide, or > > close > > > to > > > > > > it-----------I think. > > > > > > > > > All > > > > > > > > > > this is my own > > > > > > > > > > > fault. In my > > > interest > > > > to > > > > > acquire > > > > > > and learn > > > > > > > > > about > > > > > > > > > > lighting,I went > > > > > > > > > > > through and > > studied > > > the > > > > > applied > > > > > > links but being > > > > > > > > > > ol'bill, I never > > > > > > > > > > > bookmarked > > them. > > > > > > > > > > > Then to > > further > > > > > > > > > > > compound the > > > problem, I > > > > > deleted > > > > > > the original > > > > > > > > > message > > > > > > > > > > that it came > > > > > > > > > > > from. In > > hind-sight > > > you > > > > > could > > > > > > probably chalk > > > > > > > > > this > > > > > > > > > > all up to > > felonious > > > > > > > > > > > stupidity on > > my > > > part. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Bill---where > > its > > > always > > > > a > > > > > good day > > > > > > if I learn > > > > > > > > > > something new! > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > --- On Tue, > > > 11/10/09, > > > > Amber > > > > > > Berglund <arberglund@... <mailto:arberglund%40gmail.com> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > <mailto:arberglund%40gmail.com> > > > > > > > > > > > > <mailto:arberglund%40gmail.com>> > > > > > > > > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > From: Amber > > > Berglund > > > > <arberglund@... <mailto:arberglund%40gmail.com> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > <mailto:arberglund%40gmail.com> > > > > > > > > > > > > <mailto:arberglund%40gmail.com>> > > > > > > > > > > > Subject: Re: > > > > [AquaticLife] > > > > > Re: > > > > > > wisteria/lighting > > > > > > > > > > previous > > > > > > > > > > > > > question/response > > > > revisited > > > > > > > > > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > > > > > Date: > > Tuesday, > > > November > > > > 10, > > > > > 2009, > > > > > > 9:30 PM > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I believe it > > was > > > Steve > > > > who > > > > > posted > > > > > > a link about > > > > > > > > > lumens > > > > > > > > > > months back when > > > > > > > > > > > (I think it > > was > > > maybe > > > > Bill > > > > > asking) > > > > > > about lighting > > > > > > > > > for > > > > > > > > > > planted > > > > > > > > > > > aquariums. > > > > > > > > > > > Plants require > > 2 > > > > different > > > > > > spectrums of light to > > > > > > > > > > properly produce > > > > > > > > > > > either leaves > > or > > > flowers > > > > (red > > > > > is > > > > > > more for flower > > > > > > > > > > production and > > blue > > > > > > > > > > > is more for > > growth, > > > but > > > > for > > > > > the > > > > > > best growing you > > > > > > > > > want > > > > > > > > > > a mixture of > > > > > > > > > > > BOTH colors). > > > > > > > > > > > So in reality > > you > > > would > > > > want > > > > > a > > > > > > light that appears > > > > > > > > > more > > > > > > > > > > brown/reddish > > > > > > > > > > > in coloring > > and a > > > > blue/white > > > > > > coloring as well, > > > > > > > > > but > > > > > > > > > > they now have > > bulbs > > > > > > > > > > > that have > > BOTH > > > > spectrums > > > > > built in > > > > > > (I'm sure they > > > > > > > > > don't > > > > > > > > > > work as well as > > > > > > > > > > > it would to > > have 2 > > > > different > > > > > bulbs > > > > > > one mostly red > > > > > > > > > and > > > > > > > > > > the other mostly > > > > > > > > > > > blue on the > > color > > > > spectrum). > > > > > > > > > > > Let me see if > > I > > > still > > > > have > > > > > the > > > > > > link bookmarked. > > > > > > > > > > > What I was > > trying > > > to say > > > > is > > > > > that > > > > > > Kelvin does not > > > > > > > > > tell > > > > > > > > > > you what color > > > > > > > > > > > spectrum the > > light > > > > REALLY is, > > > > > it's > > > > > > actually > > > > > > > > > measuring > > > > > > > > > > it's light > > > > > > > > > > > output color > > > according > > > > to how > > > > > t<br/><br/>(Message over 64 KB, truncated)

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 44485	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 11/12/2009
Subject: Re: wisteria/lighting previous question/response revisited

Bill, From what I found, using the UPC, yours is a T-8, full spectrum daylight bulb, and it is 17W. From another site, here is the blurb about the bulb (the first site I looked at was poorly formatted): "All-Glass Aquarium fluorescent replacement lamps are the perfect high quality solution for your replacement lamp needs. These energy efficient, long lasting, full spectrum "daylight" T-8 fluorescent lamps have been engineered to provide an appealing and effective aquarium spectrum light. The 8,000K lamps will highlight the vivid colors of your aquatic plants and animals". Google is your friend. Now that you have that information, happy shopping. However, you may want to try to find out what the ballast can handle before you get your ol' heart set on a different bulb which may be a higher wattage. \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of bill 1433 Sent: Thursday, November 12, 2009 9:13 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: wisteria/lighting previous question/response revisited Ok then here's one worse? http://www.aqueonproducts.com/ who is also All-Glass. Wait until you read the funny stuff about Hoods, lighting and tubes. My hood is their # 21230. Check out tube size! Check on youtube but would rather be on this one and better yet, it goes wiwth my current mood! http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZHRHc5HmFHg&feature=channel Hey these boys could be neighbors, just accross the top of your state and a bit toward the west! Don't know about \\Steve// on this one? Bill --- On Thu, 11/12/09, Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@...> wrote: > From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@...> > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: wisteria/lighting previous question/response revisited > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Date: Thursday, November 12, 2009, 8:59 PM > OK.  I did a Google and DFS > showed up near the top for an All-Glass > fluorescent bulb and here's the page and low and behold, > they have a 24" 17W > bulb listed... BUT this bulb was not showing up on any > previous searches on > DFS. > > http://www.drsfostersmith.com/product/prod_display.cfm?pcatid=12850 > > BUT.... and it's a BIG BUT... (all the way up in the > "Bertha" category ;-) > *) > > According to that page, it's a T-8 bulb... NOT a T-4 > bulb.  Are you > confusing radius with diameter?  A 1" (T-8) diameter > bulb would have a 1/2" > radius so I want to make sure we're still on the right > track. > > Unfortunately, according to the above page, it's an 8000K > bulb and they do > not list the lumens. > > If you do reach All-Glass, ask them about the lumens on > that bulb and > whether it's a T-8 or not.  Or maybe if you double > check your measuring, > you'll find that it's a 1" diameter and a T-8 bulb.  > I'll be surprised if it > is a T-4 bulb since I cannot find anything about a T-4 bulb > matching your > measurements or wattage. > > * BTW... who's now humming http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VlRXQEA0yj0 ?  I > know \\Steve// is! ;-) > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed > on the right > side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives > by Year, Month) > > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] > On > Behalf Of bill 1433 > Sent: Thursday, November 12, 2009 7:28 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: wisteria/lighting previous > question/response > revisited > > Hi Len, > > I wrote all of this before but with going back and fourth > so many times > its more that possible that you missed it.  Yes, it's > a 30" fixture that has > one > tube in it at 24" or exactly measurements are 23" end piece > or band to end > piece, the tube over-all measure's 23 7/8 from pin edge to > pin edge. > > Now all that being said it is stamped or printed at 17 > Watts from All-Glass > and the final piece of the puzzle and probably why none of > us can find any > information is what else is stamped or printed on the > tube:  "Made In > Germany"! > > Again, I think we are on "middle ground" with the 23 > 7/8.  It could very > well be that it is also the 22 5/16 again the "where" and > whose is doing the > measuring that counts.  Giving all of this a lot of > thought and the > aggravation of it all, which is now reaching critical mass, > I did today come > one with one lone constructive thought. > > How about if I try to give All-Glass a phone call and find > out just exactly > what if any tubes can be used with this fixture?  I > thought originally to > try taking it apart and getting an "eyeball" on the ballast > but to do so > could risk damage to the unit as it is stamped or put > together in spots with > those flimsy plastic tabs and I really don't want to risk > the damage to the > unit. > > Next order of business, find a phone number for these > folks! > > Bill > > > --- On Thu, 11/12/09, Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@...> > wrote: > > > From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@...> > > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: wisteria/lighting > previous > question/response revisited > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > Date: Thursday, November 12, 2009, 5:04 PM > > Can you show me a link to a T-4, 17W > > bulb?  I haven't found a single one in > > all the reading that I've been doing.  Remind me how > > long your bulbs are > > again?  I scrolled down looking and didn't see an > > exact answer.  In looking > > at your link to DFS about your fixture, I see that for > the > > 29G/20G, it's 30" > > long with the 24" bulbs but I wanted to be sure since > every > > site I look at > > for T-4's, they do not come in 17W or 24" length so > I'm > > still thinking > > something is wrong with your calculations or the > reading of > > the specs/calcs > > that you do have. > > > > Here are three different sites with their lists of > T-4 > > bulbs and as you can > > see, there are NO 17W bulbs and no 24" bulbs. > > > > http://www.lightbulbsdirect.com/page/001/CTGY/T4 > > http://www.buylighting.com/T4-Fluorescent-s/102.htm > > http://www.servicelighting.com/T4-Straight-Linear-Fluorescent-Light-Bulbs > > > > The closest that T-4's come are 20.5" or 22-5/16" with > only > > one type/brand > > having the 22-5/16" bulb as a specialty bulb and all > of the > > other T-4's are > > 20.5" and then jump up to 33 7/8" or 33.9" depending > on the > > site. > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > > (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are > listed > > on the right > > side, alphabetically under Labels and also under > Archives > > by Year, Month) > > > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] > > On > > Behalf Of bill 1433 > > Sent: Thursday, November 12, 2009 3:27 PM > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: wisteria/lighting > previous > > question/response > > revisited > > > > Hi Len, > > > > Like I said, they are a 1/2" but so far all I can > find > > around here > > are "cool white" and "warm light" bulbs. > > > > Bill > > > > --- On Thu, 11/12/09, Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@...> > > wrote: > > > > > From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@...> > > > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: wisteria/lighting > > previous > > question/response revisited > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > > Date: Thursday, November 12, 2009, 3:48 PM > > > Bulb diameter is easy.  Take the > > > bulb and place it over a ruler/tape > > > measurer and look straight down on it.  It > should be > > > easy to discern between > > > 1/2" (T-4) and 1" (T-8) and the T-5 (5/8") uses > a > > > completely different > > > single pin on each end so that would eliminate > that > > > bulb.  Or better yet.. > > > take your bulb to the WalMart and compare apples > to > > apples > > > and you'll then > > > know exactly what you have and also be able to > see > > what > > > your local WalMart > > > offers as far as better bulbs.  You can probably > get > > > much more lighting with > > > a new $5.00 to $10.00 bulb. > > > > > > Then Santa can still bring you the bigger tank > and > > > accessories and your > > > other tanks will also be far more functional in > case > > you > > > choose to sell them > > > or just have more tanks.  As far as selling > your > > > unused stuff, > > > CraigsList.org is free and you can renew the ad > every > > week > > > until you find > > > the right buyer who is willing to pay the best > price > > you > > > can get. > > > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > > > (Links to any articles referenced in above reply > are > > listed > > > on the right > > > side, alphabetically under Labels and also under > > Archives > > > by Year, Month) > > > > > > ----------------------------------<snip>------------------------------------ -

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 44486	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 11/12/2009
Subject: Re: strong odor

How often do you do PWC's for your frogs? Also how often do you clean that filter? Frogs may breathe air but that doesn't mean that the filter doesn't need cleaned, it's going to get filled up with poop just like any aquatic creature (hey if you find a fish that doesn't poop I get first dibbs! LOL). Usually a bad smell either means you're not cleaning your filters often enough as well as not doing PWC's often enough, or there's something else very wrong (health issues, etc). Give us a little more background info on this tank so we can properly help you :) (such as age from date of setup, how you clean the tank/filters, and your water parameters wouldn't be a bad thing to share either) Amber erikaandnewton wrote: > > so prior to moving my frogs here they were @ my parents house and the > tank became slightly neglected. when i was finally able to go get them > the decorations had black algae growing on them and the tank had an > odor that reminded me of the mud in the bottom of the mostly stagnant > lagoon behind my parents beach house (or something like marsh mud). i > bleached the ornaments and rinsed the flourite really really well. a > few days ago i noticed the odor is now showing up in the 75. Whats > going on here? do i have to get rid of everything that was in the old > tank or what? the old tank had no filtration going but on the 75, at > least for now, i set up their zoo med 501. not big enough for the > tank, but i don't really need much filtration any way at this point > and i just set it up so the water would circulate to spread the heat. > > erika newark de usa > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 44487	From: bill 1433	Date: 11/12/2009
Subject: Re: wisteria/lighting previous question/response revisited

Hi Len, This cut from upper left hand corner of the same page? "All-Glass Aquarium fluorescent replacement lamps are the perfect high quality solution for your replacement lamp needs. These energy efficient, T-8 fluorescent lamps have been engineered to provide an appealing and effective aquarium spectrum light. The 8,000K lamps highlight the vivid colors of aquatic plants and animals." Now how we get to T-8 from T-4? Now you're seeing the problem more from my side. Welcome to the Department of Interior Confusion! On the "top" site? You didn't read through my post, I said it suites my current mood "It's got me under pressure" ............................but then that could apply easily to the "Butt Sisters" as well. Some geography for you? In the town down the road from us really do live two sisters and their last names are Butt and they are not to be fooled with! Nice ladies butt don't get on their bad side. No,no,no! Bill --- On Thu, 11/12/09, Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@...> wrote: > From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@...> > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: wisteria/lighting previous question/response revisited > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Date: Thursday, November 12, 2009, 9:46 PM > I guess, by "worse", you mean that > their website doesn't say crap about > their products?  I went to the hood for #21230 and all > it has is a picture > that opens up... nothing about the lighting specs, etc. > > I'm not sure why you sent the ZZ Top vid.  The one I > sent was Troglodyte > which has the line about "Bertha, Bertha Butt, one of the > Butt sisters"... > since I mentioned "BUT... and it's a BIG BUT...".  > Guess my warped sense of > humor got hold of me again. LOL > > BUT... their lighting page, once again, mentions ONLY T-8 > bulbs (see 17W, > 24") but nothing else as far as lumens or K rating so > overall, their website > would get an F- rating from me.  > > http://www.aqueonproducts.com/products/fluorescent-lamps-and-starters.htm > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed > on the right > side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives > by Year, Month) > > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] > On > Behalf Of bill 1433 > Sent: Thursday, November 12, 2009 8:13 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: wisteria/lighting previous > question/response > revisited > > Ok then here's one worse? > > http://www.aqueonproducts.com/ > > who is also All-Glass.  Wait until you read the funny > stuff about Hoods, > lighting and tubes.  My hood is their # 21230.  > Check out tube size! > Check on youtube but would rather be on this one and better > yet, it > goes wiwth my current mood! > > http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZHRHc5HmFHg&feature=channel > > Hey these boys could be neighbors, just accross the top of > your state and a > bit toward the west!  Don't know about \\Steve// on > this one? > > Bill > > --- On Thu, 11/12/09, Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@...> > wrote: > > > From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@...> > > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: wisteria/lighting > previous > question/response revisited > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > Date: Thursday, November 12, 2009, 8:59 PM > > OK.  I did a Google and DFS > > showed up near the top for an All-Glass > > fluorescent bulb and here's the page and low and > behold, > > they have a 24" 17W > > bulb listed... BUT this bulb was not showing up on > any > > previous searches on > > DFS. > > > > http://www.drsfostersmith.com/product/prod_display.cfm?pcatid=12850 > > > > BUT.... and it's a BIG BUT... (all the way up in the > > "Bertha" category ;-) > > *) > > > > According to that page, it's a T-8 bulb... NOT a T-4 > > bulb.  Are you > > confusing radius with diameter?  A 1" (T-8) diameter > > bulb would have a 1/2" > > radius so I want to make sure we're still on the > right > > track. > > > > Unfortunately, according to the above page, it's an > 8000K > > bulb and they do > > not list the lumens. > > > > If you do reach All-Glass, ask them about the lumens > on > > that bulb and > > whether it's a T-8 or not.  Or maybe if you double > > check your measuring, > > you'll find that it's a 1" diameter and a T-8 bulb.  > > I'll be surprised if it > > is a T-4 bulb since I cannot find anything about a T-4 > bulb > > matching your > > measurements or wattage. > > > > * BTW... who's now humming http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VlRXQEA0yj0 ?  I > > know \\Steve// is! ;-) > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > > (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are > listed > > on the right > > side, alphabetically under Labels and also under > Archives > > by Year, Month) > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] > > On > > Behalf Of bill 1433 > > Sent: Thursday, November 12, 2009 7:28 PM > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: wisteria/lighting > previous > > question/response > > revisited > > > > Hi Len, > > > > I wrote all of this before but with going back and > fourth > > so many times > > its more that possible that you missed it.  Yes, > it's > > a 30" fixture that has > > one > > tube in it at 24" or exactly measurements are 23" end > piece > > or band to end > > piece, the tube over-all measure's 23 7/8 from pin > edge to > > pin edge. > > > > Now all that being said it is stamped or printed at > 17 > > Watts from All-Glass > > and the final piece of the puzzle and probably why > none of > > us can find any > > information is what else is stamped or printed on the > > tube:  "Made In > > Germany"! > > > > Again, I think we are on "middle ground" with the 23 > > 7/8.  It could very > > well be that it is also the 22 5/16 again the "where" > and > > whose is doing the > > measuring that counts.  Giving all of this a lot of > > thought and the > > aggravation of it all, which is now reaching critical > mass, > > I did today come > > one with one lone constructive thought. > > > > How about if I try to give All-Glass a phone call and > find > > out just exactly > > what if any tubes can be used with this fixture?  I > > thought originally to > > try taking it apart and getting an "eyeball" on the > ballast > > but to do so > > could risk damage to the unit as it is stamped or put > > together in spots with > > those flimsy plastic tabs and I really don't want to > risk > > the damage to the > > unit. > > > > Next order of business, find a phone number for these > > folks! > > > > Bill > > > > > > --- On Thu, 11/12/09, Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@...> > > wrote: > > > > > From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@...> > > > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: wisteria/lighting > > previous > > question/response revisited > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > > Date: Thursday, November 12, 2009, 5:04 PM > > > Can you show me a link to a T-4, 17W > > > bulb?  I haven't found a single one in > > > all the reading that I've been doing.  Remind me > how > > > long your bulbs are > > > again?  I scrolled down looking and didn't see > an > > > exact answer.  In looking > > > at your link to DFS about your fixture, I see > that for > > the > > > 29G/20G, it's 30" > > > long with the 24" bulbs but I wanted to be sure > since > > every > > > site I look at > > > for T-4's, they do not come in 17W or 24" length > so > > I'm > > > still thinking > > > something is wrong with your calculations or the > > reading of > > > the specs/calcs > > > that you do have. > > > > > > Here are three different sites with their lists > of > > T-4 > > > bulbs and as you can > > > see, there are NO 17W bulbs and no 24" bulbs. > > > > > > http://www.lightbulbsdirect.com/page/001/CTGY/T4 > > > http://www.buylighting.com/T4-Fluorescent-s/102.htm > > > > http://www.servicelighting.com/T4-Straight-Linear-Fluorescent-Light-Bulbs > > > > > > The closest that T-4's come are 20.5" or 22-5/16" > with > > only > > > one type/brand > > > having the 22-5/16" bulb as a specialty bulb and > all > > of the > > > other T-4's are > > > 20.5" and then jump up to 33 7/8" or 33.9" > depending > > on the > > > site. > > > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > > > (Links to any articles referenced in above reply > are > > listed > > > on the right > > > side, alphabetically under Labels and also under > > Archives > > > by Year, Month) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] > > > On > > > Behalf Of bill 1433 > > > Sent: Thursday, November 12, 2009 3:27 PM > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: wisteria/lighting > > previous > > > question/response > > > revisited > > > > > > Hi Len, > > > > > > Like I said, they are a 1/2" but so far all I > can > > find > > > around here > > > are "cool white" and "warm light" bulbs. > > > > > > Bill > > > > > > --- On Thu, 11/12/09, Lenny V. aka GoldLenny > <GoldLenny@...> > > > wrote: > > > > > > > From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@...> > > > > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: > wisteria/lighting > > > previous > > > question/response revisited > > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > > > Date: Thursday, November 12, 2009, 3:48 PM > > > > Bulb diameter is easy.  Take the > > > > bulb and place it over a ruler/tape > > > > measurer and look straight down on it.  It > > should be > > > > easy to discern between > > > > 1/2" (T-4) and 1" (T-8) and the T-5 (5/8") > uses > > a > > > > completely different > > > > single pin on each end so that would > eliminate > > that > > > > bulb.  Or better yet.. > > > > take your bulb to the WalMart and compare > apples > > to > > > apples > > > > and you'll then > > > > know exactly what you have and also be able > to > > see > > > what > > > > your local WalMart > > > > offers as far as better bulbs.  You can > probably > > get > > > > much more lighting with > > > > a new $5.00 to $10.00 bulb. > > > > > > > > Then Santa can still bring you the bigger > tank > > and > > > > accessories and your > > > > other tanks will also be far more functional > in > > case > > > you > > > > choose to sell them > > > > or just have more tanks.  As far as > selling > > your > > > > unused stuff, > > > > CraigsList.org is free and you can renew the > ad > > every > > > week > > > > until you find > > > > the right buyer who is willing to pay the > best > > price > > > you > > > > can get. > > > > > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > > > > (Links to any articles referenced in above > reply > > are > > > listed > > > > on the right > > > > side, alphabetically under Labels and also > under > > > Archives > > > > by Year, Month) > > > > > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > > > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] > > > > On > > > > Behalf Of bill 1433 > > > > Sent: Thursday, November 12, 2009 2:27 PM > > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > > > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: > wisteria/lighting > > > previous > > > > question/response > > > > revisited > > > > > > > > Bulb Diameter Len, and now you see my > problem.  > > I > > > > haven't found any either. > > > > Also reading and studying all that you have > sent > > me so > > > far > > > > I come away from > > > > all of this with one single thought, is it > worth > > > it?  > > > > > > > > > > > > With all this being said and it so close to > the > > time > > > for a > > > > visit from > > > > "Santa", I'm wondering if I should not put > all > > you > > > have > > > > taught me to better > > > > use by just getting something like a > standard > > > 55-gallon > > > > tank!  These lights > > > > do cost a bit but there is not a huge > different > > > between > > > > size vs. cost from a > > > > 29 to a 55.  Then to is the issue of what > to do > > with > > > > the plastic covers I > > > > already have should I go to the all glass > > covers. > > > > > > > > Sell them, sure but to whom?  Remember, I'm > the > > guy > > > > that has a hard time > > > > just trying to find a place to buy fish > around > > here, > > > there > > > > just aren't that > > > > many places or people.  No matter what I > do, I > > > promise > > > > to keep you posted. > > > > > > > > Thanks for all you've taught and helped me > with, > > > > > > > > Bill > > > > > > > > > > > > --- On Thu, 11/12/09, Lenny V. aka > GoldLenny > > <GoldLenny@...> > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@...> > > > > > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: > > wisteria/lighting > > > > previous > > > > question/response revisited > > > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > > > > Date: Thursday, November 12, 2009, 2:42 > PM > > > > > Once again Bill.... you need to get > > > > > away from the "Watts" mindset.  It's > > > > > just not applicable with the wide array > of > > bulbs > > > > available > > > > > nowadays.  That > > > > > link goes to a CFL light strip and 65 > watts > > of > > > CFL > > > > lighting > > > > > is a LOT, LOT, > > > > > LOT (3 LOTS) more lighting than 65 > watts of > > an > > > > incandescent > > > > > bulb and a LOT, > > > > > LOT (2 LOTS) more lighting than a 65W > > normal > > > > fluorescent > > > > > bulb.  This would > > > > > probably increase your lighting by > 10X's > > over > > > what you > > > > have > > > > > now.  If you > > > > > just went with 20W (range) CFL's, you'd > get > > > 2-3X's > > > > more > > > > > light than you > > > > > currently have.  > > > > > > > > > > You still need to do some more research > on > > your > > > > current > > > > > bulbs to find out > > > > > the specs on them.  Without knowing > your > > > current > > > > > specs, it's difficult to > > > > > know how much more lighting you might > > want/need. > > > > > > > > > > Since you got your fixture and bulbs > from > > DFS, I > > > just > > > > did a > > > > > search of '17 > > > > > watt fluorescent' and four bulbs came > up.. > > one > > > was a > > > > CFL so > > > > > that wasn't it > > > > > and the other three are below BUT none > of > > them > > > are > > > > T-4's... > > > > > in fact, so far, > > > > > I have not been able to find a T-4, > 17W > > bulb > > > > > anywhere.  What are you > > > > > measuring to come up with the 1/2" > > figure?  > > > Bulb > > > > > diameter, pin separation or > > > > > other??? > > > > > > > > > > http://www.drsfostersmith.com/product/prod_display.cfm?pcatid=3787 > > > > > (24", > > > > > T-8, 5500K, nothing for lumens) > > > > > > > > > > http://www.drsfostersmith.com/product/prod_display.cfm?pcatid=4491 > > > > > (24", > > > > > T-8, Actinic 420nm, nothing for > lumens) > > > > > > > > > > http://www.drsfostersmith.com/product/prod_display.cfm?pcatid=4489 > > > > > (24", > > > > > T-8, 6500K, nothing for lumens) > > > > > > > > > > You need to take your bulb out and go > to a > > local > > > > lighting > > > > > store (department) > > > > > or even the Walmart and see if they can > give > > you > > > more > > > > info > > > > > on it or at least > > > > > you might find identical sized bulbs > that > > do > > > have > > > > specs on > > > > > them so you can > > > > > be more informed about what you have. > > > > > > > > > > While I was at the DFS site, and since > you > > > previously > > > > > mentioned that you > > > > > have an All-Glass hood that came with > the > > one > > > bulb > > > > light > > > > > strip, I did a > > > > > search on DFS for 'All-Glass light' > and > > found > > > this > > > > link for > > > > > the only single > > > > > bulb light strip that All-Glass has on > DFS' > > > site. > > > > > > > > > > http://www.drsfostersmith.com/product/prod_display.cfm?pcatid=3793 > > > > > > > > > > It comes in 16" or 20" lengths.  > There's a > > link > > > to > > > > > "View compatible Bulbs" > > > > > in the Description tab, which brings up > a > > page > > > of > > > > bulbs and > > > > > ALL of the ones > > > > > compatible for the 20" strip are T-8 > > bulbs.  > > > There > > > > are > > > > > a couple of dozen > > > > > bulbs listed so I didn't go through > them > > and > > > > unfortunately, > > > > > they do NOT list > > > > > the wattage on that list so I wasn't > able to > > find > > > any > > > > 17W > > > > > bulbs without > > > > > checking a bunch of links.  Since it > was > > an > > > > All-Glass > > > > > fixture, I did click > > > > > on the first All-Glass brand bulb > which > > brought > > > up > > > > this > > > > > page... > > > > > > > > > > http://www.drsfostersmith.com/product/prod_display.cfm?pcatid=12850 > > > > > > > > > > And you will see that there is either > an > > 18", 15W > > > bulb > > > > or a > > > > > 24", 17W bulb, > > > > > as well as others... and these are the > > 8000K > > > bulbs > > > > which > > > > > were listed in the > > > > > description on the website link that > you > > posted > > > > earlier > > > > > BUT.. these are ALL > > > > > T-8 bulbs, not T-4's so we're back to > that > > spec > > > issue > > > > > again.  This page does > > > > > call them 8000K Daylight, Full > Spectrum > > bulbs so > > > maybe > > > > they > > > > > are OK but I > > > > > wish that the DFS site would list > lumens > > since > > > that is > > > > a > > > > > critical, > > > > > need-to-know piece of information that > is > > > missing.  > > > > As > > > > > seen in my previous > > > > > posts, the same sized bulbs can have a > > lumen > > > output > > > > that is > > > > > 50% to 100% > > > > > higher than a comparable bulb of the > same > > size... > > > and > > > > that > > > > > makes a HUGE > > > > > difference in lighting. > > > > > > > > > > Once again, take the bulb to your > WalMart > > and > > > compare > > > > > apples to apples and > > > > > find out exactly what size bulb you > have > > and > > > while > > > > there, > > > > > look at other > > > > > identical sized bulbs and look for the > > highest > > > lumens > > > > in > > > > > the 5000K to 6500K > > > > > range, buy one and bring it home and > see if > > it's > > > a > > > > LOT > > > > > brighter than what > > > > > you now have.  If so, that might do > the > > trick. > > > > > > > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > > > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > > > > > (Links to any articles referenced in > above > > reply > > > are > > > > listed > > > > > on the right > > > > > side, alphabetically under Labels and > also > > under > > > > Archives > > > > > by Year, Month) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > > > > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] > > > > > On > > > > > Behalf Of bill 1433 > > > > > Sent: Thursday, November 12, 2009 12:12 > PM > > > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > > > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: > > wisteria/lighting > > > > previous > > > > > question/response > > > > > revisited > > > > > > > > > > Hi Amber, > > > > > > > > > > The links Len provided are very close > BUT > > it's > > > the > > > > ends of > > > > > the tube or pins > > > > > that worry me.  They are very close > but > > "how"? > > > > > > > > > > Meaning this buying the tube, ok by > mail?  > > Now > > > what > > > > if > > > > > it doesn't work? > > > > > Rreturn a $10.00 tube the postage > would > > cost > > > more.  > > > > > I'm trying to work > > > > > backward now from Len's link, and get > a > > > manufacture so > > > > I > > > > > can buy around > > > > > here.  Also I'm getting made enough > now to > > > scrape > > > > the > > > > > whole thing and just > > > > > get a new All-Glass cover then maybe > one of > > > these: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > http://www.drsfostersmith.com/product/prod_display.cfm?c=3578+3733+9654+9871 > > > > > &pcatid=9871 > > > > > > > > > > This link is not pointing to the exact > > Coralife > > > > product I > > > > > want at Doctors > > > > > its # apn-16981, if you have their > catalog > > but I > > > can't > > > > make > > > > > it come up on > > > > > search at their site.  It is a single > rated > > at > > > 65 > > > > > watts and is 24". > > > > > > > > > > Bill > > > > > --- On Thu, 11/12/09, Amber Berglund > <arberglund@...> > > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > From: Amber Berglund <arberglund@...> > > > > > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: > > > wisteria/lighting > > > > > previous > > > > > question/response revisited > > > > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > > > > > Date: Thursday, November 12, > 2009, > > 12:59 PM > > > > > > Bill does have T-4's if I > remember > > > > > > correctly, maybe one of those > 20watt > > > > > > bulbs will work for him and > provide > > more > > > lumens > > > > than > > > > > his > > > > > > current bulbs do. > > > > > > Did you check those links out > Bill? ;) > > > > > > > > > > > > Amber > > > > > > > > > > > > Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Just because a fixture > currently > > has a > > > T-8 > > > > or > > > > > T-10, > > > > > > does not mean it > > > > > > > cannot > > > > > > > use a T-12, and vice versa. > They > > are > > > all > > > > medium > > > > > bi-pin > > > > > > bulbs, meaning they > > > > > > > all will fit and work UNLESS > the > > > reflector > > > > is so > > > > > tight > > > > > > that a T-12 cannot > > > > > > > fit inside the fixture but I > > haven't > > > seen > > > > this as > > > > > a > > > > > > problem in the past. > > > > > > > Usually, going with a T-8 or > > T-10, > > > instead > > > > of a > > > > > T-12 > > > > > > will give more lumens > > > > > > > but in the case of this > > particular > > > sized > > > > bulb, > > > > > the > > > > > > T-12 may be the better > > > > > > > option. Of course, we still > need > > more > > > > details on > > > > > > Bill's exact bulb. We > > > > > > > still do not know anything > except > > that > > > it's > > > > 17 > > > > > > watts... nothing about > > > > > > > lumens, K rating or anything > else > > for > > > > comparison > > > > > > purposes. As Johnny 5 > > > > > > > once > > > > > > > said... "Need more input!" (I > have > > no > > > clue > > > > why > > > > > that > > > > > > OLD movie line popped > > > > > > > into my head and I can't > blame it > > on > > > drugs > > > > since > > > > > I > > > > > > didn't/don't do them... > > > > > > > and as far as I know, beer > > doesn't > > > cause > > > > acid > > > > > > flashbacks. LOL > > > > > > > http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Short_Circuit > > > > > > > <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Short_Circuit>) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Now... thinking back a > little. > > Bill > > > may > > > > have > > > > > T-4's and > > > > > > if he does, those > > > > > > > use the miniature bi-pin base > and > > the > > > above > > > > > larger > > > > > > T-#'s with medium > > > > > > > bi-pin > > > > > > > base would not work. If this > is > > the > > > case, > > > > there > > > > > are > > > > > > other options > > > > > > > listed on > > > > > > > this page... > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > http://www.servicelighting.com/T4-Straight-Linear-Fluorescent-Light-Bulbs > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > <http://www.servicelighting.com/T4-Straight-Linear-Fluorescent-Light-Bulbs> > > > > > > > including this 20W, 6400K, > 1340 > > Lumens > > > bulb > > > > - > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > http://www.servicelighting.com/Bulbrite-85220-F20T4-64K-F20T4-D-T4-Straight- > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > <http://www.servicelighting.com/Bulbrite-85220-F20T4-64K-F20T4-D-T4-Straight > > > > > -> > > > > > > > > Linear-Fluorescent-Light-Bulb, > > which > > > sounds > > > > like > > > > > a > > > > > > pretty good bulb > > > > > > > from the > > > > > > > specs and actually provides > more > > lumens > > > than > > > > any > > > > > of > > > > > > the T-12's previously > > > > > > > listed. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > > > > > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > > > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > > > > > (Links to any articles > referenced > > in > > > above > > > > reply > > > > > are > > > > > > listed on the right > > > > > > > side, alphabetically under > Labels > > and > > > also > > > > under > > > > > > Archives by Year, Month) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > > > > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > > > > > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On > > > > > > > Behalf Of Amber Berglund > > > > > > > Sent: Thursday, November 12, > 2009 > > 10:29 > > > AM > > > > > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > > > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] > Re: > > > > wisteria/lighting > > > > > > previous > > > > > > > question/response > > > > > > > revisited > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Bill has smaller bulbs, I > think > > they > > > are not > > > > easy > > > > > to > > > > > > find in a higher > > > > > > > wattage output, which is what > he > > was > > > looking > > > > for > > > > > a few > > > > > > months back. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Amber > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Lenny V. aka GoldLenny > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I don't know what you > mean > > by > > > this. > > > > Please > > > > > > elaborate. What size tube? > > > > > > > > I posted about several > > different > > > bulbs > > > > but > > > > > all > > > > > > were T-12's, which is > > > > > > > > one of the most common > > sizes. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > > > > > > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > > > > > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > > > > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>> > > > > > > > (Links to any articles > referenced > > in > > > > > > > > above reply are listed > on > > the > > > right > > > > side, > > > > > > alphabetically under Labels > > > > > > > > and also under Archives > by > > Year, > > > > Month) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -----Original > Message----- > > > > > > > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > > > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On > > > > > > Behalf Of bill 1433 > > > > > > > > Sent: Thursday, November > 12, > > 2009 > > > 8:59 > > > > AM > > > > > > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > > Subject: RE: > [AquaticLife] > > Re: > > > > > wisteria/lighting > > > > > > previous > > > > > > > > question/response > revisited > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Yes Len, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > But its finding that > size > > tube > > > with > > > > more of > > > > > > anything that's the problem. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Bill > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > --- On Wed, 11/11/09, > Lenny > > V. > > > aka > > > > > GoldLenny > > > > > > <GoldLenny@... > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com> > > > > > > > > > > > > <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com>> > > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > From: Lenny V. aka > > GoldLenny > > > > <GoldLenny@... > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com> > > > > > > > > > > > > <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com>> > > > > > > > > > Subject: RE: > > [AquaticLife] > > > Re: > > > > > > wisteria/lighting previous > > > > > > > > > question/response > > revisited > > > > > > > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > > > Date: Wednesday, > > November > > > 11, > > > > 2009, > > > > > 5:22 PM > > > > > > Well, if you only have > > > > > > > > > 17W, then you > could > > > definitely do > > > > > better > > > > > > with the 20W, higher lumen, > > > > > > > > > better K rating > bulbs > > that I > > > > > mentioned. > > > > > > Considering the lumen > > > > > > > > > ratings of > fluorescent > > bulbs > > > I've > > > > > looked at, > > > > > > your 17W bulbs might > > > > > > > > > only have 500-700 > > lumens > > > where the > > > > BEST > > > > > 20W > > > > > > bulb (below) has > > > > > > > > > 1075 lumens so you > > > > > > > > > could possibly > increase > > your > > > > lighting > > > > > by 50% > > > > > > to 100% just by > > > > > > > > > changing to that > bulb. > > At > > > least, > > > > with > > > > > that > > > > > > bulb, you'll be in the > > > > > > > > > low-light range > for > > plants on > > > the > > > > 20G > > > > > but > > > > > > the 29G will need some work. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Of course, you > should > > find > > > out > > > > what > > > > > the > > > > > > lumens and K ratings are on > > > > > > > > > the bulbs you have > so > > you'll > > > know > > > > if > > > > > you are > > > > > > getting a small jump or > > > > > > > > > a BIG jump in > lighting > > just > > > by > > > > changing > > > > > your > > > > > > bulbs. Check your local > > > > > > > > > WalMart for bulbs. > My > > nearby > > > > WalMart > > > > > > SuperCenter has a really big > > > > > > > > > assortment of > > fluorescent > > > tubes > > > > and > > > > > they > > > > > > were cheaper than the Home > > > > > > > > > Depot. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Something else I'm > > thinking > > > about > > > > for > > > > > you is > > > > > > going with 18" > > > > > > > > > light-sticks on > > > > > > > > > each end of your > 29G > > tank or > > > front > > > > or > > > > > back > > > > > > (back would hide it best > > > > > > > > > but you decide > your > > best > > > > aesthetics) > > > > > and > > > > > > you'd have to make a DIY > > > > > > > > > reflector for it > (white > > > poster > > > > board > > > > > and > > > > > > scotch tape would work) and > > > > > > > > > that would get > more > > lighting > > > down > > > > to > > > > > the > > > > > > bottom level plants in the > > > > > > > > > 29G. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > > > > > > > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > > > > > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > > > > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>> > > > > > > > (Links to any articles > > > > > > > > > referenced in > above > > reply > > > are > > > > listed on > > > > > the > > > > > > right side, > > > > > > > > > alphabetically > under > > Labels > > > and > > > > also > > > > > under > > > > > > Archives by Year, Month) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -----Original > > Message----- > > > > > > > > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > > > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] > > > > > > > > > On > > > > > > > > > Behalf Of bill > 1433 > > > > > > > > > Sent: Wednesday, > > November 11, > > > 2009 > > > > 3:42 > > > > > PM > > > > > > > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > > > Subject: RE: > > [AquaticLife] > > > Re: > > > > > > wisteria/lighting previous > > > > > > > > > question/response > > revisited > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > It is what it is > type > > of > > > thing > > > > Len. > > > > > Site > > > > > > says one thing but stamped > > > > > > > > > or printed right on > the > > tube > > > is at > > > > 17 > > > > > > watts. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Bill > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > --- On Wed, > 11/11/09, > > Lenny > > > V. > > > > aka > > > > > GoldLenny > > > > > > <GoldLenny@... > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com> > > > > > > > > > > > > <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com>> > > > > > > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > From: Lenny V. > aka > > > GoldLenny > > > > > <GoldLenny@... > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com> > > > > > > > > > > > > <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com>> > > > > > > > > > > Subject: RE: > > > [AquaticLife] > > > > Re: > > > > > > wisteria/lighting > > > > > > > > > previous > > > > > > > > > > > question/response > > > revisited > > > > > > > > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > > > > Date: > Wednesday, > > > November > > > > 11, > > > > > 2009, > > > > > > 2:16 PM The > > > > > > > > > problem might be > this > > > > > > > > > > statement in > the > > > > description... > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > "... Hoods > include > > > 8000ºK > > > > > bulb... > > > > > > ...20W, 24"..." > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > That's getting > into > > the > > > > higher > > > > > > green/blue Kelvin > > > > > > > > > range... > > > > > > > > > > closer to the > > > > > > > > > > 10,000K > actinic > > type > > > bulbs... > > > > than > > > > > the > > > > > > 5000K to 6500K > > > > > > > > > "Daylight" bulbs > > > > > > > > > > that provide > full > > > spectrum > > > > > lighting. > > > > > > It's also only > > > > > > > > > a 20W bulb > > > > > > > > > > (according to > the > > DFS > > > site, > > > > > although > > > > > > you stated it was > > > > > > > > > only 17W so > > > > > > > > > > double check > this) > > so > > > it's > > > > only > > > > > 1WPG on > > > > > > the 20G and > > > > > > > > > only 0.69WPG on > > > > > > > > > > the 29G. Of > course, > > if > > > the > > > > bulb > > > > > puts > > > > > > out a LOT more > > > > > > > > > lumens (you would > > > > > > > > > > have to do > more > > checking > > > up > > > > on the > > > > > bulb > > > > > > to find this), > > > > > > > > > that would help > > > > > > > > > > a little but > not > > much. > > > I > > > > think you > > > > > need > > > > > > at least > > > > > > > > > 1WPG to have > success > > > > > > > > > > with > low-light > > plants, > > > > although > > > > > > floating plants like > > > > > > > > > Anacharis, > > > > > > > > > > Hornwort, > > Duckweed, > > > etc., > > > > would be > > > > > up > > > > > > close to the > > > > > > > > > light and benefit > > > > > > > > > > from CO2 from > the > > air > > > and > > > > would do > > > > > OK > > > > > > with your > > > > > > > > > lighting... but > then > > > > > > > > > > they would > also > > block > > > out > > > > the > > > > > lighting > > > > > > to the rest of > > > > > > > > > the tank. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I don't see a > lot > > of > > > options, > > > > as > > > > > far as > > > > > > T-8 bulbs are > > > > > > > > > concerned for > > > > > > > > > > this size > fixture > > but I > > > see a > > > > few > > > > > > different T-12's... > > > > > > > > > such as... > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > (My rating is: > GOOD > > - > > > but > > > > see > > > > > BETTER > > > > > > and BEST options > > > > > > > > > below... at > > > > > > > > > > least as far > as > > the > > > bulbs on > > > > this > > > > > site > > > > > > are concerned) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > http://www.servicelighting.com/Sylvania-22119-F20T12-DSGN50-T12-Straig > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > <http://www.servicelighting.com/Sylvania-22119-F20T12-DSGN50-T12-Straig> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > <http://www.servicelighting.com/Sylvania-22119-F20T12-DSGN50-T12-Strai > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > <http://www.servicelighting.com/Sylvania-22119-F20T12-DSGN50-T12-Strai> > > > > > > > > g> > > > > > > > > > > ht-Lin > > > > > > > > > > > > > ear-Fluorescent-Light-Bulb > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Light Output: > 880 > > > lumens > > > > > > > > > > Refers to the > > literal > > > measure > > > > of > > > > > the > > > > > > light-output of a > > > > > > > > > particular > > > > > > > > > > light bulb, > > measured in > > > the > > > > number > > > > > of > > > > > > lumens. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Energy Used: > 20 > > watts > > > > > > > > > > "Watts" is > the > > term > > > applied > > > > to > > > > > the > > > > > > amount of energy > > > > > > > > > required and used > > > > > > > > > > by a > particular > > light > > > bulb. > > > > It is > > > > > an > > > > > > international > > > > > > > > > system unit of > > > > > > > > > > power equal to > one > > joule > > > per > > > > > second. > > > > > > Contrary to > > > > > > > > > popular belief, > the > > > > > > > > > > wattage of a > bulb > > does > > > not > > > > > directly > > > > > > measure the > > > > > > > > > brightness; the > > > > > > > > > > "lumens" of a > light > > is > > > what > > > > > defines the > > > > > > actual light > > > > > > > > > output. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Average > Lifetime: > > 9,000 > > > > hours > > > > > > > > > > This refers to > an > > > average > > > > > lifetime > > > > > > rating based on > > > > > > > > > large quantities > in > > > > > > > > > > test groups. > This > > > testing > > > > takes > > > > > into > > > > > > account usage of > > > > > > > > > 3 hours per > > > > > > > > > > start for > > fluorescent > > > lamps > > > > and > > > > > 10 > > > > > > hours per start for > > > > > > > > > HID lamps. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Bulb Type: > T12 > > > > > > > > > > The "Bulb > Type" is > > > typically > > > > a > > > > > > combination of the > > > > > > > > > style of bulb as > > > > > > > > > > well as the > width > > of > > > the > > > > bulb. > > > > > Usually, > > > > > > the first > > > > > > > > > couple letters > will > > > > > > > > > > indicate the > type; > > "G" > > > would > > > > > indicate > > > > > > "Globe", "PAR" > > > > > > > > > would indicate > > > > > > > > > > "Parabolic > > Reflector"... > > > The > > > > > numbers > > > > > > indicate the > > > > > > > > > diameter of the > > > > > > > > > > light bulb in > > eighths of > > > an > > > > inch; > > > > > a > > > > > > "G40" would be a > > > > > > > > > "Globe" style > > > > > > > > > > that is "5 > inches" > > in > > > > diameter. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Base Type: > Medium > > > Bi-Pin > > > > > > > > > > The "Base" of > a > > light > > > bulb is > > > > the > > > > > part > > > > > > that either > > > > > > > > > screws or snaps > > > > > > > > > > into a > receptacle. > > Base > > > Type > > > > > > terminology may indicate > > > > > > > > > common > > > > > > > > > > descriptive > words > > like > > > > "Medium" > > > > > or > > > > > > "Candelabra", or > > > > > > > > > may even contain > > > > > > > > > > numeric codes > that > > > signify > > > > size > > > > > and > > > > > > variety, like > > > > > > > > > "E26" or "2GX13". > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Color > Temperature: > > > 5,000K > > > > > > > > > > Correlated > Color > > > Temperature > > > > (CCT) > > > > > is a > > > > > > specification > > > > > > > > > of the color > > > > > > > > > > appearance of > a > > lamp, > > > > relating > > > > > its > > > > > > color to that of a > > > > > > > > > reference source > > > > > > > > > > heated to a > > particular > > > > > temperature, > > > > > > measured in > > > > > > > > > degrees Kelvin (K). > It > > > > > > > > > > generally > measures > > the > > > > "warmth" > > > > > or > > > > > > "coolness" of light > > > > > > > > > source > > > > > > > > > > appearance. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > CRI: 90 > > > > > > > > > > CRI refers to > the > > > "Color > > > > > Rendering > > > > > > Index" of a light > > > > > > > > > bulb. > > > > > > > > > > CRI measures > a > > > > > > > > > > light source > and > > grades > > > its > > > > > ability to > > > > > > render the > > > > > > > > > color of objects > > > > > > > > > > "correctly," > as > > compared > > > with > > > > a > > > > > > reference source with > > > > > > > > > comparable color > > > > > > > > > > temperature. > 100 > > is > > > perfect > > > > > rendering. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Length: 24 > inches > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > (BETTER - > slightly > > > higher > > > > lumens > > > > > and > > > > > > higher 6500K > > > > > > > > > rating) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > http://www.servicelighting.com/Westinghouse-36516-F20T12-FS-T12-Straig > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > <http://www.servicelighting.com/Westinghouse-36516-F20T12-FS-T12-Straig> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > <http://www.servicelighting.com/Westinghouse-36516-F20T12-FS-T12-Strai > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > <http://www.servicelighting.com/Westinghouse-36516-F20T12-FS-T12-Strai> > > > > > > > > g> > > > > > > > > > > ht-Lin > > > > > > > > > > > > > ear-Fluorescent-Light-Bulb > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Light Output: > 900 > > > lumens > > > > > > > > > > Energy Used: > 20 > > watts > > > > > > > > > > Average > Lifetime: > > > 10,000 > > > > hours > > > > > > > > > > Bulb Type: > T12 > > > > > > > > > > Base Type: > Medium > > > Bi-Pin > > > > > > > > > > Color > Temperature: > > > 6,500K > > > > > > > > > > CRI: 90 > > > > > > > > > > Length: 24 > inches > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > (BEST, of > these > > three - > > > > around > > > > > 20% > > > > > > higher lumens and > > > > > > > > > good 6,500K > > > > > > > > > > rating, > although it > > does > > > have > > > > a > > > > > lower > > > > > > CRI rating.. but > > > > > > > > > still > > > > > > > > > > passing) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > http://www.servicelighting.com/Sylvania-22083-F20T12-D-T12-Straight-Li > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > <http://www.servicelighting.com/Sylvania-22083-F20T12-D-T12-Straight-Li> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > <http://www.servicelighting.com/Sylvania-22083-F20T12-D-T12-Straight-L > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > <http://www.servicelighting.com/Sylvania-22083-F20T12-D-T12-Straight-L> > > > > > > > > i> > > > > > > > > > > near-F > > > > > > > > > > > > luorescent-Light-Bulb > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Light Output: > > 1,075 > > > lumens > > > > > > > > > > Energy Used: > 20 > > watts > > > > > > > > > > Average > Lifetime: > > 9,000 > > > > hours > > > > > > > > > > Bulb Type: > T12 > > > > > > > > > > Base Type: > Medium > > > Bi-Pin > > > > > > > > > > Color > Temperature: > > > 6,500K > > > > > > > > > > CRI: 76 > > > > > > > > > > Length: 24 > inches > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Compare the > above > > three > > > to > > > > what is > > > > > sold > > > > > > as a > > > > > > > > > plant/aquarium > light by > > > > > > > > > > the same > company, > > which > > > has > > > > a > > > > > lower > > > > > > lumens, MUCH lower > > > > > > > > > CRI rating and > > > > > > > > > > does not list > the > > K > > > rating > > > > other > > > > > than > > > > > > to say "Plant" > > > > > > > > > which is a > > > > > > > > > > subjective > rating > > > established > > > > by > > > > > the > > > > > > manufacturer. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > (WORST) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > http://www.servicelighting.com/Westinghouse-36411-F20T12-PL-T12-Straig > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > <http://www.servicelighting.com/Westinghouse-36411-F20T12-PL-T12-Straig> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > <http://www.servicelighting.com/Westinghouse-36411-F20T12-PL-T12-Strai > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > <http://www.servicelighting.com/Westinghouse-36411-F20T12-PL-T12-Strai> > > > > > > > > g> > > > > > > > > > > ht-Lin > > > > > > > > > > > > > ear-Fluorescent-Light-Bulb > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Light Output: > 700 > > > lumens > > > > (over 30% > > > > > less > > > > > > lighting > > > > > > > > > than the 1,075 > > > > > > > > > > lumens bulb > > > > > > > > > > above) > > > > > > > > > > Energy Used: > 20 > > watts > > > > > > > > > > Average > Lifetime: > > > 10,000 > > > > hours > > > > > > > > > > Bulb Type: > T12 > > > > > > > > > > Base Type: > Medium > > > Bi-Pin > > > > > > > > > > Color: Plant > > > > > > > > > > CRI: 61 > > > > > > > > > > Length: 24 > inches > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > If any of the > > above > > > have > > > > much > > > > > better > > > > > > lumens than your > > > > > > > > > current > > > > > > > > > > lighting... > > > > > > > > > > and they all > have > > better > > > K > > > > > ratings, > > > > > > then any of them > > > > > > > > > would be better > > > > > > > > > > for you... but > you > > > would > > > > still be > > > > > stuck > > > > > > with only 20 > > > > > > > > > watts but it's > > > > > > > > > > the LUMENS and > K > > rating > > > that > > > > count > > > > > more > > > > > > than watts. > > > > > > > > > You need to find > > > > > > > > > > out the lumens > on > > your > > > bulb. > > > > Try > > > > > to > > > > > > find it on the > > > > > > > > > DFS site and let > > > > > > > > > > us know. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > You should > look at > > the > > > > > AHSupply.com > > > > > > place for a > > > > > > > > > retrofit kit so > you > > > > > > > > > > can use CFL's > in > > your > > > > current > > > > > hood. > > > > > > That would > > > > > > > > > probably be your > least > > > > > > > > > > expensive > option. I > > know > > > you > > > > don't > > > > > like > > > > > > electricity > > > > > > > > > but I'm sure you > > > > > > > > > > know someone > that > > could > > > do > > > > this > > > > > for > > > > > > you... on the > > > > > > > > > cheap... or over a > > > > > > > > > > 6-pack. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Lenny > Vasbinder > > > > > > > > > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > > > > > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > > > > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>> > > > > > > > (Links to > > > > > > > > > any articles > > > > > > > > > > referenced in > > above > > > reply > > > > are > > > > > listed on > > > > > > the right > > > > > > > > > side, > alphabetically > > > > > > > > > > under Labels > and > > also > > > under > > > > > Archives by > > > > > > Year, Month) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -----Original > > > Message----- > > > > > > > > > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > > > > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] > > > > > > > > > > On > > > > > > > > > > Behalf Of > bill > > 1433 > > > > > > > > > > Sent: > Wednesday, > > > November 11, > > > > 2009 > > > > > 9:33 > > > > > > AM > > > > > > > > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > > > > Subject: RE: > > > [AquaticLife] > > > > Re: > > > > > > wisteria/lighting > > > > > > > > > previous > > > > > > > > > > > question/response > > > > > > > > > > revisited > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Hi \\Steve// > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > At this point, > and > > also > > > to > > > > refresh > > > > > your > > > > > > mind, and > > > > > > > > > anyone > > > > > > > > > > else on the > group > > > > > > > > > > that may have > > interest. > > > This > > > > all > > > > > got > > > > > > started with > > > > > > > > > my > > > > > > > > > > search for a > tube > > that > > > > > > > > > > would allow > me > > more > > > light > > > > output > > > > > from > > > > > > an All Glass > > > > > > > > > Plastic > > > > > > > > > > hood and > light. > > > > > > > > > > This unit > comes > > with a > > > "color > > > > type > > > > > tube > > > > > > at 17 watts > > > > > > > > > that is > > > > > > > > > > only 24 > inches > > > > > > > > > > long. This is > for > > a > > > > 20/29-gallon > > > > > tank. > > > > > > I was stupid enough to buy > > > > > > > > > > two of them, > one > > for > > > each > > > > tank. > > > > > For > > > > > > further inspection > > > > > > > > > here > > > > > > > > > > is the light: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > http://www.drsfostersmith.com/product/prod_display.cfm?pcatid=13447 > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > <http://www.drsfostersmith.com/product/prod_display.cfm?pcatid=13447> > > > > > > > > > > > <http://www.drsfostersmith.com/product/prod_display.cfm?pcatid=13447 > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > <http://www.drsfostersmith.com/product/prod_display.cfm?pcatid=13447>> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > For those > that > > would > > > like to > > > > > aggravate > > > > > > themselves > > > > > > > > > further, > > > > > > > > > > I can also > state > > > > > > > > > > that these > hoods > > are > > > very > > > > > conducive to > > > > > > growing Black Algae! > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Summoning up, > I > > should > > > have > > > > only > > > > > > purchased an > > > > > > > > > All-Glass > > > > > > > > > > cover and > then > > > > > > > > > > probably a > double > > tube > > > light > > > > of > > > > > > sufficient wattage to > > > > > > > > > bring > > > > > > > > > > me up to the > > > > > > > > > > recommended 2 > or 3 > > watts > > > per > > > > > gallon. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Ya live and > learn, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Bill > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > --- On Tue, > > 11/10/09, > > > Steve > > > > Szabo > > > > > > <steve@... > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > <mailto:steve%40familyszabo.com> > > > > > > > > > > > > <mailto:steve%40familyszabo.com>> > > > > > > > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > From: > Steve > > Szabo > > > <steve@... > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > <mailto:steve%40familyszabo.com> > > > > > > > > > > > > <mailto:steve%40familyszabo.com>> > > > > > > > > > > > Subject: > RE: > > > > [AquaticLife] > > > > > Re: > > > > > > wisteria/lighting > > > > > > > > > > previous > > > > > > > > > > > > > question/response > > > > revisited > > > > > > > > > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > > > > > Date: > > Tuesday, > > > November > > > > 10, > > > > > 2009, > > > > > > 11:50 PM Bill, > > > > > > > > > you > > > > > > > > > > got it right! > The > > > > > > > > > > > T > numbers > > represent > > > the > > > > > diameter > > > > > > of the bulb in > > > > > > > > > 1/8" > > > > > > > > > > increments. A > T4 > > > > > > > > > > > is a bulb > 1/2" > > in > > > > diameter, > > > > > T5 is > > > > > > 5/8", t8 is > > > > > > > > > 1" and > > > > > > > > > > a t12 is 1 > 1/2". > > > > > > > > > > > As I > recall, > > the F > > > is > > > > the > > > > > wattage > > > > > > of the bulb. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Lumens, > not > > > usually > > > > stated on > > > > > the > > > > > > bulb is the > > > > > > > > > actual > > > > > > > > > > amount of > light > > > > > > > > > > > coming > from > > the > > > bulb. > > > > It > > > > > really > > > > > > does not have > > > > > > > > > anything > > > > > > > > > > to do with > > > > > > > > > > > watts, > though > > more > > > watts > > > > will > > > > > give > > > > > > you more > > > > > > > > > lumens, > > > > > > > > > > but, also the > > > > > > > > > > > phosphors > used > > in > > > the > > > > bulb > > > > > affect > > > > > > the amount of > > > > > > > > > lumen > > > > > > > > > > output. > Lumens > > > > > > > > > > > and lux > are > > often > > > used > > > > > > interchangeably, but they > > > > > > > > > are > > > > > > > > > > really > different > > > > > > > > > > > > measurements. > > Lux > > > is > > > > the > > > > > measure > > > > > > of illumination > > > > > > > > > over > > > > > > > > > > a given area. > It > > > > > > > > > > > may > actually > > be > > > more > > > > > important to > > > > > > aquarists > > > > > > > > > raising > > > > > > > > > > plants than > the > > > > > > > > > > > lumen > output. > > Lux > > > is > > > > what is > > > > > > measured by a light > > > > > > > > > > meter, for > anyone > > who > > > > > > > > > > > happens > to > > know > > > what > > > > they > > > > > are--not > > > > > > often seen > > > > > > > > > with > > > > > > > > > > today's > cameras > > and > > > > > > > > > > > > > photographers. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Color > > temperature > > > is > > > > > important. > > > > > > Average daylight > > > > > > > > > > (except may > in > > > > > > > > > > > Amber's > area > > where > > > they > > > > have > > > > > 6 > > > > > > months of > > > > > > > > > darkness) has > > > > > > > > > > a color > > > > > > > > > > > > temperature > > of > > > > 5500-6000. > > > > > > > > > > > An > overcast > > day can > > > have > > > > a > > > > > color > > > > > > temperature of > > > > > > > > > 6500. > > > > > > > > > > As mentioned > > > > > > > > > > > earlier, > > plants > > > need > > > > light in > > > > > two > > > > > > color > > > > > > > > > spectrums, > > > > > > > > > > and, actually > they > > > > > > > > > > > are > rather > > narrow > > > spans > > > > of > > > > > > wavelengths they > > > > > > > > > benefit > > > > > > > > > > from. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I thought > I > > had a > > > > bookmark > > > > > > explaining this, but > > > > > > > > > I > > > > > > > > > > can't find it > > > > > > > > > > > quickly > (over > > 400K > > > of > > > > > bookmarks, > > > > > > and things have > > > > > > > > > a > > > > > > > > > > tendency to > get > > > > > > > > > > > lost), > > however, > > > some > > > > > judicial > > > > > > Googling will gain > > > > > > > > > you > > > > > > > > > > the > information. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > \\Steve// > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -----Original > > > > Message----- > > > > > > > > > > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > > > > > > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] > > > > > > > > > > > On > > > > > > > > > > > Behalf > Of > > bill > > > 1433 > > > > > > > > > > > Sent: > > Tuesday, > > > November > > > > 10, > > > > > 2009 > > > > > > 10:20 PM > > > > > > > > > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > > > > > Subject: > Re: > > > > [AquaticLife] > > > > > Re: > > > > > > wisteria/lighting > > > > > > > > > > previous > > > > > > > > > > > > > question/response > > > > revisited > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Yes, > Amber > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > It was > I, > > looking > > > for > > > > the > > > > > original > > > > > > information > > > > > > > > > and > > > > > > > > > > also looked > back > > on > > > > > > > > > > > > \\Steve//'s > > post > > > at > > > > group to > > > > > try > > > > > > and find. Ray > > > > > > > > > had > > > > > > > > > > mentioned all > this > > > > > > > > > > > the other > day > > > saying > > > > that he > > > > > > thought the posting > > > > > > > > > came > > > > > > > > > > from > \\Steve//. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I was > not > > > successful in > > > > my > > > > > search. > > > > > > Also, for me > > > > > > > > > the > > > > > > > > > > most > important > > > > > > > > > > > part was > a > > link to > > > a > > > > chart > > > > > which > > > > > > showed you > > > > > > > > > exactly, > > > > > > > > > > or explained > > > > > > > > > > > exactly > the > > "T" > > > > > > > > > > > factor > stands > > for. > > > For > > > > > instance, > > > > > > T-4 would be a > > > > > > > > > tube > > > > > > > > > > that is a > half > > > > > > > > > > > inch > wide, or > > close > > > to > > > > > > it-----------I think. > > > > > > > > > All > > > > > > > > > > this is my > own > > > > > > > > > > > fault. In > my > > > interest > > > > to > > > > > acquire > > > > > > and learn > > > > > > > > > about > > > > > > > > > > lighting,I > went > > > > > > > > > > > through > and > > studied > > > the > > > > > applied > > > > > > links but being > > > > > > > > > > ol'bill, I > never > > > > > > > > > > > > bookmarked > > them. > > > > > > > > > > > Then to > > further > > > > > > > > > > > compound > the > > > problem, I > > > > > deleted > > > > > > the original > > > > > > > > > message > > > > > > > > > > that it came > > > > > > > > > > > from. In > > hind-sight > > > you > > > > > could > > > > > > probably chalk > > > > > > > > > this > > > > > > > > > > all up to > > felonious > > > > > > > > > > > stupidity > on > > my > > > part. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Bill---where > > its > > > always > > > > a > > > > > good day > > > > > > if I learn > > > > > > > > > > something > new! > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > --- On > Tue, > > > 11/10/09, > > > > Amber > > > > > > Berglund <arberglund@... > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > <mailto:arberglund%40gmail.com> > > > > > > > > > > > > <mailto:arberglund%40gmail.com>> > > > > > > > > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > From: > Amber > > > Berglund > > > > <arberglund@... > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > <mailto:arberglund%40gmail.com> > > > > > > > > > > > > <mailto:arberglund%40gmail.com>> > > > > > > > > > > > Subject: > Re: > > > > [AquaticLife] > > > > > Re: > > > > > > wisteria/lighting > > > > > > > > > > previous > > > > > > > > > > > > > question/response > > > > revisited > > > > > > > > > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > > > > > Date: > > Tuesday, > > > November > > > > 10, > > > > > 2009, > > > > > > 9:30 PM > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I believe > it > > was > > > Steve > > > > who > > > > > posted > > > > > > a link about > > > > > > > > > lumens > > > > > > > > > > months back > when > > > > > > > > > > > (I think > it > > was > > > maybe > > > > Bill > > > > > asking) > > > > > > about lighting > > > > > > > > > for > > > > > > > > > > planted > > > > > > > > > > > > aquariums. > > > > > > > > > > > Plants > require > > 2 > > > > different > > > > > > spectrums of light to > > > > > > > > > > properly > produce > > > > > > > > > > > either > leaves > > or > > > flowers > > > > (red > > > > > is > > > > > > more for flower > > > > > > > > > > production > and > > blue > > > > > > > > > > > is more > for > > growth, > > > but > > > > for > > > > > the > > > > > > best growing you > > > > > > > > > want > > > > > > > > > > a mixture of > > > > > > > > > > > BOTH > colors). > > > > > > > > > > > So in > reality > > you > > > would > > > > want > > > > > a > > > > > > light that appears > > > > > > > > > more > > > > > > > > > > brown/reddish > > > > > > > > > > > in > coloring > > and a > > > > blue/white > > > > > > coloring as well, > > > > > > > > > but > > > > > > > > > > they now have > > bulbs > > > > > > > > > > > that > have > > BOTH > > > > spectrums > > > > > built in > > > > > > (I'm sure they > > > > > > > > > don't > > > > > > > > > > work as well > as > > > > > > > > > > > it would > to > > have 2 > > > > different > > > > > bulbs > > > > > > one mostly red > > > > > > > > > and > > > > > > > > > > the other > mostly > > > > > > > > > > > blue on > the > > color > > > > spectrum). > > > > > > > > > > > Let me > see if > > I > > > still > > > > have > > > > > the > > > > > > link bookmarked. > > > > > > > > > > > What I > was > > trying > > > to say > > > > is > > > > > that > > > > > > Kelvin does not > > > > > > > > > tell > > > > > > > > > > you what > color > > > > > > > > > > > spectrum > the > > light > > > > REALLY is, > > > > > it's > > > > > > actually > > > > > > > > > measuring > > > > > > > > > > it's light > > > > > > > > > > > output > color > > > according > > > > to how > > > > > the > > > > > > human eyes > > > > > > > > > perceive > > > > > > > > > > it. So 6500 > > > > > > > > > > > kelvin > in > > general > > > is > > > > what > > > > > most > > > > > > plants will > > > > > > > > > prefer > > > > > > > > > > because that > is a > > > > > > > > > > > mixture > of > > both red > > > and > > > > blue > > > > > > spectrums (In MOST > > > > > > > > > bulbs) > > > > > > > > > > unfortunately > > > > > > > > > > > not all > light > > bulb > > > > > manufactures > > > > > > have to use the > > > > > > > > > exact > > > > > > > > > > same chart > for > > > > > > > > > > > their > colors, > > so > > > they > > > > will > > > > > have > > > > > > different colors > > > > > > > > > than > > > > > > > > > > another bulb > > > > > > > > > > > that > says > > it's > > > 6500 > > > > Kelvin. > > > > > what > > > > > > you really need > > > > > > > > > to > > > > > > > > > > read is the > color > > > > > > > > > > > chart on > the > > box, > > > not > > > > what > > > > > lumens > > > > > > it says it is. > > > > > > > > > > > (still > > searching > > > for > > > > link, > > > > > LOL). > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > This > isn't > > the > > > right > > > > link but > > > > > it > > > > > > discusses the > > > > > > > > > > kelvin/lumen > > problems a > > > > > > > > > > > little > bit, > > still > > > > looking for > > > > > the > > > > > > link that > > > > > > > > > showed the > > > > > > > > > > charts and > what > > > > > > > > > > > to look > for in > > the > > > > color > > > > > charts. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > http://www.americanaquariumproducts.com/Aquarium_Lighting.html > > > > > > > > > > > > > <http://www.americanaquariumproducts.com/Aquarium_Lighting.html> > > > > > > > > > <http://www.americanaquariumproducts.com/Aquarium_Lighting.html > > > > > > > > > > > > > > <http://www.americanaquariumproducts.com/Aquarium_Lighting.html>> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Will > post > > again > > > when I > > > > find > > > > > the > > > > > > other link with > > > > > > > > > chart > > > > > > > > > > examples. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Amber > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Lenny V. > aka > > > GoldLenny > > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I > think > > it > > > would > > > > be > > > > > false > > > > > > advertising or > > > > > > > > > > possibly > > > > > > > > > > > > > mis-advertising > > > (if > > > > they > > > > > > > > > > > > do > not > > know > > > any > > > > better) > > > > > if a > > > > > > company lists > > > > > > > > > their > > > > > > > > > > bulbs > > > > > > > > > > > as 6500K > and > > they > > > > > > > > > > > > > aren't. > > The > > > Kelvin > > > > > scale, > > > > > > just like Watts > > > > > > > > > and > > > > > > > > > > Lumens, > > > > > > > > > > > are ALL > > > > > > > > > > > > > universal > > and > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > scientifically > > > > > measurable > > > > > > scales BUT, as I > > > > > > > > > > showed > > > > > > > > > > > below, > not all > > 40 > > > watt > > > > > > > > > > > > > bulbs put > > out > > > the > > > > same > > > > > amount > > > > > > of light > > > > > > > > > (lumens) > > > > > > > > > > or in > > > > > > > > > > > the same > > color > > > > > > > > > > > > > spectrum > > > (Kelvin > > > > > rating). All > > > > > > 40 watt > > > > > > > > > bulbs, > > > > > > > > > > whether > > > > > > > > > > > > incandescent, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > fluorescent, > > > CFL, > > > > LED, > > > > > > Halogen, etc.... ALL > > > > > > > > > use > > > > > > > > > > > > only/around > > 40 > > > watts of > > > > > > > > > > > > > > electricity > > > but > > > > their > > > > > light > > > > > > output can vary > > > > > > > > > <br/><br/>(Message over 64 KB, truncated)

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 44488	From: bill 1433	Date: 11/12/2009
Subject: Re: wisteria/lighting previous question/response revisited

With this lighting problem it's heading thata way! Bill --- On Thu, 11/12/09, Amber Berglund <arberglund@...> wrote: > From: Amber Berglund <arberglund@...> > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: wisteria/lighting previous question/response revisited > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Date: Thursday, November 12, 2009, 9:48 PM > Well at least I recognize that band > ;) LOL > Are you under pressure Bill? LOL > > Amber > > bill 1433 wrote: > > > > Ok then here's one worse? > > > > http://www.aqueonproducts.com/ <http://www.aqueonproducts.com/> > > > > who is also All-Glass. Wait until you read the funny > stuff about > > Hoods, lighting and tubes. My hood is their # 21230. > Check out tube size! > > Check on youtube but would rather be on this one and > better yet, it > > goes wiwth my current mood! > > > > http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZHRHc5HmFHg&feature=channel > > > <http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZHRHc5HmFHg&feature=channel> > > > > Hey these boys could be neighbors, just accross the > top of your state > > and a bit toward the west! Don't know about \\Steve// > on this one? > > > > Bill > > > > --- On Thu, 11/12/09, Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@... > > > <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com>> wrote: > > > > > From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@... > > > <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com>> > > > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: wisteria/lighting > previous > > question/response revisited > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > Date: Thursday, November 12, 2009, 8:59 PM > > > OK. I did a Google and DFS > > > showed up near the top for an All-Glass > > > fluorescent bulb and here's the page and low and > behold, > > > they have a 24" 17W > > > bulb listed... BUT this bulb was not showing up > on any > > > previous searches on > > > DFS. > > > > > > http://www.drsfostersmith.com/product/prod_display.cfm?pcatid=12850 > > > <http://www.drsfostersmith.com/product/prod_display.cfm?pcatid=12850> > > > > > > BUT.... and it's a BIG BUT... (all the way up in > the > > > "Bertha" category ;-) > > > *) > > > > > > According to that page, it's a T-8 bulb... NOT a > T-4 > > > bulb. Are you > > > confusing radius with diameter? A 1" (T-8) > diameter > > > bulb would have a 1/2" > > > radius so I want to make sure we're still on the > right > > > track. > > > > > > Unfortunately, according to the above page, it's > an 8000K > > > bulb and they do > > > not list the lumens. > > > > > > If you do reach All-Glass, ask them about the > lumens on > > > that bulb and > > > whether it's a T-8 or not. Or maybe if you > double > > > check your measuring, > > > you'll find that it's a 1" diameter and a T-8 > bulb. > > > I'll be surprised if it > > > is a T-4 bulb since I cannot find anything about > a T-4 bulb > > > matching your > > > measurements or wattage. > > > > > > * BTW... who's now humming > > http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VlRXQEA0yj0 > > <http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VlRXQEA0yj0> ? I > > > know \\Steve// is! ;-) > > > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > (Links to any articles referenced in above reply > are listed > > > on the right > > > side, alphabetically under Labels and also under > Archives > > > by Year, Month) > > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] > > > On > > > Behalf Of bill 1433 > > > Sent: Thursday, November 12, 2009 7:28 PM > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: wisteria/lighting > previous > > > question/response > > > revisited > > > > > > Hi Len, > > > > > > I wrote all of this before but with going back > and fourth > > > so many times > > > its more that possible that you missed it. Yes, > it's > > > a 30" fixture that has > > > one > > > tube in it at 24" or exactly measurements are 23" > end piece > > > or band to end > > > piece, the tube over-all measure's 23 7/8 from > pin edge to > > > pin edge. > > > > > > Now all that being said it is stamped or printed > at 17 > > > Watts from All-Glass > > > and the final piece of the puzzle and probably > why none of > > > us can find any > > > information is what else is stamped or printed on > the > > > tube: "Made In > > > Germany"! > > > > > > Again, I think we are on "middle ground" with the > 23 > > > 7/8. It could very > > > well be that it is also the 22 5/16 again the > "where" and > > > whose is doing the > > > measuring that counts. Giving all of this a lot > of > > > thought and the > > > aggravation of it all, which is now reaching > critical mass, > > > I did today come > > > one with one lone constructive thought. > > > > > > How about if I try to give All-Glass a phone call > and find > > > out just exactly > > > what if any tubes can be used with this fixture? > I > > > thought originally to > > > try taking it apart and getting an "eyeball" on > the ballast > > > but to do so > > > could risk damage to the unit as it is stamped or > put > > > together in spots with > > > those flimsy plastic tabs and I really don't want > to risk > > > the damage to the > > > unit. > > > > > > Next order of business, find a phone number for > these > > > folks! > > > > > > Bill > > > > > > > > > --- On Thu, 11/12/09, Lenny V. aka GoldLenny > <GoldLenny@... > > > <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com>> > > > wrote: > > > > > > > From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@... > > > <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com>> > > > > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: > wisteria/lighting > > > previous > > > question/response revisited > > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > Date: Thursday, November 12, 2009, 5:04 PM > > > > Can you show me a link to a T-4, 17W > > > > bulb? I haven't found a single one in > > > > all the reading that I've been doing. Remind > me how > > > > long your bulbs are > > > > again? I scrolled down looking and didn't > see an > > > > exact answer. In looking > > > > at your link to DFS about your fixture, I > see that for > > > the > > > > 29G/20G, it's 30" > > > > long with the 24" bulbs but I wanted to be > sure since > > > every > > > > site I look at > > > > for T-4's, they do not come in 17W or 24" > length so > > > I'm > > > > still thinking > > > > something is wrong with your calculations or > the > > > reading of > > > > the specs/calcs > > > > that you do have. > > > > > > > > Here are three different sites with their > lists of > > > T-4 > > > > bulbs and as you can > > > > see, there are NO 17W bulbs and no 24" > bulbs. > > > > > > > > http://www.lightbulbsdirect.com/page/001/CTGY/T4 > > <http://www.lightbulbsdirect.com/page/001/CTGY/T4> > > > > http://www.buylighting.com/T4-Fluorescent-s/102.htm > > <http://www.buylighting.com/T4-Fluorescent-s/102.htm> > > > > > > http://www.servicelighting.com/T4-Straight-Linear-Fluorescent-Light-Bulbs > > > <http://www.servicelighting.com/T4-Straight-Linear-Fluorescent-Light-Bulbs> > > > > > > > > The closest that T-4's come are 20.5" or > 22-5/16" with > > > only > > > > one type/brand > > > > having the 22-5/16" bulb as a specialty bulb > and all > > > of the > > > > other T-4's are > > > > 20.5" and then jump up to 33 7/8" or 33.9" > depending > > > on the > > > > site. > > > > > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > > (Links to any articles referenced in above > reply are > > > listed > > > > on the right > > > > side, alphabetically under Labels and also > under > > > Archives > > > > by Year, Month) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] > > > > On > > > > Behalf Of bill 1433 > > > > Sent: Thursday, November 12, 2009 3:27 PM > > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: > wisteria/lighting > > > previous > > > > question/response > > > > revisited > > > > > > > > Hi Len, > > > > > > > > Like I said, they are a 1/2" but so far all > I can > > > find > > > > around here > > > > are "cool white" and "warm light" bulbs. > > > > > > > > Bill > > > > > > > > --- On Thu, 11/12/09, Lenny V. aka GoldLenny > <GoldLenny@... > > > <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com>> > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@... > > > <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com>> > > > > > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: > wisteria/lighting > > > > previous > > > > question/response revisited > > > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > Date: Thursday, November 12, 2009, 3:48 > PM > > > > > Bulb diameter is easy. Take the > > > > > bulb and place it over a ruler/tape > > > > > measurer and look straight down on it. > It > > > should be > > > > > easy to discern between > > > > > 1/2" (T-4) and 1" (T-8) and the T-5 > (5/8") uses > > > a > > > > > completely different > > > > > single pin on each end so that would > eliminate > > > that > > > > > bulb. Or better yet.. > > > > > take your bulb to the WalMart and > compare apples > > > to > > > > apples > > > > > and you'll then > > > > > know exactly what you have and also be > able to > > > see > > > > what > > > > > your local WalMart > > > > > offers as far as better bulbs. You can > probably > > > get > > > > > much more lighting with > > > > > a new $5.00 to $10.00 bulb. > > > > > > > > > > Then Santa can still bring you the > bigger tank > > > and > > > > > accessories and your > > > > > other tanks will also be far more > functional in > > > case > > > > you > > > > > choose to sell them > > > > > or just have more tanks. As far as > selling > > > your > > > > > unused stuff, > > > > > CraigsList.org is free and you can > renew the ad > > > every > > > > week > > > > > until you find > > > > > the right buyer who is willing to pay > the best > > > price > > > > you > > > > > can get. > > > > > > > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > > > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > > > (Links to any articles referenced in > above reply > > > are > > > > listed > > > > > on the right > > > > > side, alphabetically under Labels and > also under > > > > Archives > > > > > by Year, Month) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] > > > > > On > > > > > Behalf Of bill 1433 > > > > > Sent: Thursday, November 12, 2009 2:27 > PM > > > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: > wisteria/lighting > > > > previous > > > > > question/response > > > > > revisited > > > > > > > > > > Bulb Diameter Len, and now you see my > problem. > > > I > > > > > haven't found any either. > > > > > Also reading and studying all that you > have sent > > > me so > > > > far > > > > > I come away from > > > > > all of this with one single thought, is > it worth > > > > it? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > With all this being said and it so > close to the > > > time > > > > for a > > > > > visit from > > > > > "Santa", I'm wondering if I should not > put all > > > you > > > > have > > > > > taught me to better > > > > > use by just getting something like a > standard > > > > 55-gallon > > > > > tank! These lights > > > > > do cost a bit but there is not a huge > different > > > > between > > > > > size vs. cost from a > > > > > 29 to a 55. Then to is the issue of > what to do > > > with > > > > > the plastic covers I > > > > > already have should I go to the all > glass > > > covers. > > > > > > > > > > Sell them, sure but to whom? Remember, > I'm the > > > guy > > > > > that has a hard time > > > > > just trying to find a place to buy fish > around > > > here, > > > > there > > > > > just aren't that > > > > > many places or people. No matter what I > do, I > > > > promise > > > > > to keep you posted. > > > > > > > > > > Thanks for all you've taught and helped > me with, > > > > > > > > > > Bill > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > --- On Thu, 11/12/09, Lenny V. aka > GoldLenny > > > <GoldLenny@... > <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com>> > > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny > <GoldLenny@... > > > <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com>> > > > > > > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: > > > wisteria/lighting > > > > > previous > > > > > question/response revisited > > > > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > Date: Thursday, November 12, 2009, > 2:42 PM > > > > > > Once again Bill.... you need to > get > > > > > > away from the "Watts" mindset. > It's > > > > > > just not applicable with the wide > array of > > > bulbs > > > > > available > > > > > > nowadays. That > > > > > > link goes to a CFL light strip and > 65 watts > > > of > > > > CFL > > > > > lighting > > > > > > is a LOT, LOT, > > > > > > LOT (3 LOTS) more lighting than 65 > watts of > > > an > > > > > incandescent > > > > > > bulb and a LOT, > > > > > > LOT (2 LOTS) more lighting than a > 65W > > > normal > > > > > fluorescent > > > > > > bulb. This would > > > > > > probably increase your lighting by > 10X's > > > over > > > > what you > > > > > have > > > > > > now. If you > > > > > > just went with 20W (range) CFL's, > you'd get > > > > 2-3X's > > > > > more > > > > > > light than you > > > > > > currently have. > > > > > > > > > > > > You still need to do some more > research on > > > your > > > > > current > > > > > > bulbs to find out > > > > > > the specs on them. Without knowing > your > > > > current > > > > > > specs, it's difficult to > > > > > > know how much more lighting you > might > > > want/need. > > > > > > > > > > > > Since you got your fixture and > bulbs from > > > DFS, I > > > > just > > > > > did a > > > > > > search of '17 > > > > > > watt fluorescent' and four bulbs > came up.. > > > one > > > > was a > > > > > CFL so > > > > > > that wasn't it > > > > > > and the other three are below BUT > none of > > > them > > > > are > > > > > T-4's... > > > > > > in fact, so far, > > > > > > I have not been able to find a > T-4, 17W > > > bulb > > > > > > anywhere. What are you > > > > > > measuring to come up with the > 1/2" > > > figure? > > > > Bulb > > > > > > diameter, pin separation or > > > > > > other??? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > http://www.drsfostersmith.com/product/prod_display.cfm?pcatid=3787 > > > <http://www.drsfostersmith.com/product/prod_display.cfm?pcatid=3787> > > > > > > (24", > > > > > > T-8, 5500K, nothing for lumens) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > http://www.drsfostersmith.com/product/prod_display.cfm?pcatid=4491 > > > <http://www.drsfostersmith.com/product/prod_display.cfm?pcatid=4491> > > > > > > (24", > > > > > > T-8, Actinic 420nm, nothing for > lumens) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > http://www.drsfostersmith.com/product/prod_display.cfm?pcatid=4489 > > > <http://www.drsfostersmith.com/product/prod_display.cfm?pcatid=4489> > > > > > > (24", > > > > > > T-8, 6500K, nothing for lumens) > > > > > > > > > > > > You need to take your bulb out and > go to a > > > local > > > > > lighting > > > > > > store (department) > > > > > > or even the Walmart and see if > they can give > > > you > > > > more > > > > > info > > > > > > on it or at least > > > > > > you might find identical sized > bulbs that > > > do > > > > have > > > > > specs on > > > > > > them so you can > > > > > > be more informed about what you > have. > > > > > > > > > > > > While I was at the DFS site, and > since you > > > > previously > > > > > > mentioned that you > > > > > > have an All-Glass hood that came > with the > > > one > > > > bulb > > > > > light > > > > > > strip, I did a > > > > > > search on DFS for 'All-Glass > light' and > > > found > > > > this > > > > > link for > > > > > > the only single > > > > > > bulb light strip that All-Glass > has on DFS' > > > > site. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > http://www.drsfostersmith.com/product/prod_display.cfm?pcatid=3793 > > > <http://www.drsfostersmith.com/product/prod_display.cfm?pcatid=3793> > > > > > > > > > > > > It comes in 16" or 20" lengths. > There's a > > > link > > > > to > > > > > > "View compatible Bulbs" > > > > > > in the Description tab, which > brings up a > > > page > > > > of > > > > > bulbs and > > > > > > ALL of the ones > > > > > > compatible for the 20" strip are > T-8 > > > bulbs. > > > > There > > > > > are > > > > > > a couple of dozen > > > > > > bulbs listed so I didn't go > through them > > > and > > > > > unfortunately, > > > > > > they do NOT list > > > > > > the wattage on that list so I > wasn't able to > > > find > > > > any > > > > > 17W > > > > > > bulbs without > > > > > > checking a bunch of links. Since > it was > > > an > > > > > All-Glass > > > > > > fixture, I did click > > > > > > on the first All-Glass brand bulb > which > > > brought > > > > up > > > > > this > > > > > > page... > > > > > > > > > > > > > > http://www.drsfostersmith.com/product/prod_display.cfm?pcatid=12850 > > > <http://www.drsfostersmith.com/product/prod_display.cfm?pcatid=12850> > > > > > > > > > > > > And you will see that there is > either an > > > 18", 15W > > > > bulb > > > > > or a > > > > > > 24", 17W bulb, > > > > > > as well as others... and these are > the > > > 8000K > > > > bulbs > > > > > which > > > > > > were listed in the > > > > > > description on the website link > that you > > > posted > > > > > earlier > > > > > > BUT.. these are ALL > > > > > > T-8 bulbs, not T-4's so we're back > to that > > > spec > > > > issue > > > > > > again. This page does > > > > > > call them 8000K Daylight, Full > Spectrum > > > bulbs so > > > > maybe > > > > > they > > > > > > are OK but I > > > > > > wish that the DFS site would list > lumens > > > since > > > > that is > > > > > a > > > > > > critical, > > > > > > need-to-know piece of information > that is > > > > missing. > > > > > As > > > > > > seen in my previous > > > > > > posts, the same sized bulbs can > have a > > > lumen > > > > output > > > > > that is > > > > > > 50% to 100% > > > > > > higher than a comparable bulb of > the same > > > size... > > > > and > > > > > that > > > > > > makes a HUGE > > > > > > difference in lighting. > > > > > > > > > > > > Once again, take the bulb to your > WalMart > > > and > > > > compare > > > > > > apples to apples and > > > > > > find out exactly what size bulb > you have > > > and > > > > while > > > > > there, > > > > > > look at other > > > > > > identical sized bulbs and look for > the > > > highest > > > > lumens > > > > > in > > > > > > the 5000K to 6500K > > > > > > range, buy one and bring it home > and see if > > > it's > > > > a > > > > > LOT > > > > > > brighter than what > > > > > > you now have. If so, that might do > the > > > trick. > > > > > > > > > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > > > > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > > > > (Links to any articles referenced > in above > > > reply > > > > are > > > > > listed > > > > > > on the right > > > > > > side, alphabetically under Labels > and also > > > under > > > > > Archives > > > > > > by Year, Month) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > > > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] > > > > > > On > > > > > > Behalf Of bill 1433 > > > > > > Sent: Thursday, November 12, 2009 > 12:12 PM > > > > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: > > > wisteria/lighting > > > > > previous > > > > > > question/response > > > > > > revisited > > > > > > > > > > > > Hi Amber, > > > > > > > > > > > > The links Len provided are very > close BUT > > > it's > > > > the > > > > > ends of > > > > > > the tube or pins > > > > > > that worry me. They are very close > but > > > "how"? > > > > > > > > > > > > Meaning this buying the tube, ok > by mail? > > > Now > > > > what > > > > > if > > > > > > it doesn't work? > > > > > > Rreturn a $10.00 tube the postage > would > > > cost > > > > more. > > > > > > I'm trying to work > > > > > > backward now from Len's link, and > get a > > > > manufacture so > > > > > I > > > > > > can buy around > > > > > > here. Also I'm getting made enough > now to > > > > scrape > > > > > the > > > > > > whole thing and just > > > > > > get a new All-Glass cover then > maybe one of > > > > these: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > http://www.drsfostersmith.com/product/prod_display.cfm?c=3578+3733+9654+9871 > > > <http://www.drsfostersmith.com/product/prod_display.cfm?c=3578+3733+9654+9871> > > > > > > &pcatid=9871 > > > > > > > > > > > > This link is not pointing to the > exact > > > Coralife > > > > > product I > > > > > > want at Doctors > > > > > > its # apn-16981, if you have their > catalog > > > but I > > > > can't > > > > > make > > > > > > it come up on > > > > > > search at their site. It is a > single rated > > > at > > > > 65 > > > > > > watts and is 24". > > > > > > > > > > > > Bill > > > > > > --- On Thu, 11/12/09, Amber > Berglund <arberglund@... > > > <mailto:arberglund%40gmail.com>> > > > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > From: Amber Berglund <arberglund@... > > > <mailto:arberglund%40gmail.com>> > > > > > > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] > Re: > > > > wisteria/lighting > > > > > > previous > > > > > > question/response revisited > > > > > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > Date: Thursday, November 12, > 2009, > > > 12:59 PM > > > > > > > Bill does have T-4's if I > remember > > > > > > > correctly, maybe one of those > 20watt > > > > > > > bulbs will work for him and > provide > > > more > > > > lumens > > > > > than > > > > > > his > > > > > > > current bulbs do. > > > > > > > Did you check those links out > Bill? ;) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Amber > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Lenny V. aka GoldLenny > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Just because a fixture > currently > > > has a > > > > T-8 > > > > > or > > > > > > T-10, > > > > > > > does not mean it > > > > > > > > cannot > > > > > > > > use a T-12, and vice > versa. They > > > are > > > > all > > > > > medium > > > > > > bi-pin > > > > > > > bulbs, meaning they > > > > > > > > all will fit and work > UNLESS the > > > > reflector > > > > > is so > > > > > > tight > > > > > > > that a T-12 cannot > > > > > > > > fit inside the fixture > but I > > > haven't > > > > seen > > > > > this as > > > > > > a > > > > > > > problem in the past. > > > > > > > > Usually, going with a > T-8 or > > > T-10, > > > > instead > > > > > of a > > > > > > T-12 > > > > > > > will give more lumens > > > > > > > > but in the case of this > > > particular > > > > sized > > > > > bulb, > > > > > > the > > > > > > > T-12 may be the better > > > > > > > > option. Of course, we > still need > > > more > > > > > details on > > > > > > > Bill's exact bulb. We > > > > > > > > still do not know > anything except > > > that > > > > it's > > > > > 17 > > > > > > > watts... nothing about > > > > > > > > lumens, K rating or > anything else > > > for > > > > > comparison > > > > > > > purposes. As Johnny 5 > > > > > > > > once > > > > > > > > said... "Need more > input!" (I have > > > no > > > > clue > > > > > why > > > > > > that > > > > > > > OLD movie line popped > > > > > > > > into my head and I can't > blame it > > > on > > > > drugs > > > > > since > > > > > > I > > > > > > > didn't/don't do them... > > > > > > > > and as far as I know, > beer > > > doesn't > > > > cause > > > > > acid > > > > > > > flashbacks. LOL > > > > > > > > http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Short_Circuit > > <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Short_Circuit> > > > > > > > > <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Short_Circuit > > <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Short_Circuit>>) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Now... thinking back a > little. > > > Bill > > > > may > > > > > have > > > > > > T-4's and > > > > > > > if he does, those > > > > > > > > use the miniature bi-pin > base and > > > the > > > > above > > > > > > larger > > > > > > > T-#'s with medium > > > > > > > > bi-pin > > > > > > > > base would not work. If > this is > > > the > > > > case, > > > > > there > > > > > > are > > > > > > > other options > > > > > > > > listed on > > > > > > > > this page... > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > http://www.servicelighting.com/T4-Straight-Linear-Fluorescent-Light-Bulbs > > > <http://www.servicelighting.com/T4-Straight-Linear-Fluorescent-Light-Bulbs> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > <http://www.servicelighting.com/T4-Straight-Linear-Fluorescent-Light-Bulbs > > > <http://www.servicelighting.com/T4-Straight-Linear-Fluorescent-Light-Bulbs>> > > > > > > > > including this 20W, > 6400K, 1340 > > > Lumens > > > > bulb > > > > > - > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > http://www.servicelighting.com/Bulbrite-85220-F20T4-64K-F20T4-D-T4-Straight- > > > <http://www.servicelighting.com/Bulbrite-85220-F20T4-64K-F20T4-D-T4-Straight-> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > <http://www.servicelighting.com/Bulbrite-85220-F20T4-64K-F20T4-D-T4-Straight > > > <http://www.servicelighting.com/Bulbrite-85220-F20T4-64K-F20T4-D-T4-Straight> > > > > > > -> > > > > > > > > > Linear-Fluorescent-Light-Bulb, > > > which > > > > sounds > > > > > like > > > > > > a > > > > > > > pretty good bulb > > > > > > > > from the > > > > > > > > specs and actually > provides more > > > lumens > > > > than > > > > > any > > > > > > of > > > > > > > the T-12's previously > > > > > > > > listed. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > > > > > > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>> > > > > > > > > (Links to any articles > referenced > > > in > > > > above > > > > > reply > > > > > > are > > > > > > > listed on the right > > > > > > > > side, alphabetically > under Labels > > > and > > > > also > > > > > under > > > > > > > Archives by Year, Month) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -----Original > Message----- > > > > > > > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > > > > > > > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On > > > > > > > > Behalf Of Amber > Berglund > > > > > > > > Sent: Thursday, November > 12, 2009 > > > 10:29 > > > > AM > > > > > > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > > Subject: Re: > [AquaticLife] Re: > > > > > wisteria/lighting > > > > > > > previous > > > > > > > > question/response > > > > > > > > revisited > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Bill has smaller bulbs, > I think > > > they > > > > are not > > > > > easy > > > > > > to > > > > > > > find in a higher > > > > > > > > wattage output, which is > what he > > > was > > > > looking > > > > > for > > > > > > a few > > > > > > > months back. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Amber > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Lenny V. aka GoldLenny > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I don't know what > you mean > > > by > > > > this. > > > > > Please > > > > > > > elaborate. What size tube? > > > > > > > > > I posted about > several > > > different > > > > bulbs > > > > > but > > > > > > all > > > > > > > were T-12's, which is > > > > > > > > > one of the most > common > > > sizes. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > > > > > > > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > > > > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>> > > > > > > > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>>> > > > > > > > > (Links to any articles > referenced > > > in > > > > > > > > > above reply are > listed on > > > the > > > > right > > > > > side, > > > > > > > alphabetically under Labels > > > > > > > > > and also under > Archives by > > > Year, > > > > > Month) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -----Original > Message----- > > > > > > > > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > > > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On > > > > > > > Behalf Of bill 1433 > > > > > > > > > Sent: Thursday, > November 12, > > > 2009 > > > > 8:59 > > > > > AM > > > > > > > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > > > Subject: RE: > [AquaticLife] > > > Re: > > > > > > wisteria/lighting > > > > > > > previous > > > > > > > > > question/response > revisited > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Yes Len, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > But its finding > that size > > > tube > > > > with > > > > > more of > > > > > > > anything that's the problem. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Bill > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > --- On Wed, > 11/11/09, Lenny > > > V. > > > > aka > > > > > > GoldLenny > > > > > > > <GoldLenny@... > <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com>> > > > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > From: Lenny V. > aka > > > GoldLenny > > > > > <GoldLenny@... > <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com>> > > > > > > > > > > Subject: RE: > > > [AquaticLife] > > > > Re: > > > > > > > wisteria/lighting previous > > > > > > > > > > > question/response > > > revisited > > > > > > > > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > > > > Date: > Wednesday, > > > November > > > > 11, > > > > > 2009, > > > > > > 5:22 PM > > > > > > > Well, if you only have > > > > > > > > > > 17W, then you > could > > > > definitely do > > > > > > better > > > > > > > with the 20W, higher lumen, > > > > > > > > > > better K > rating bulbs > > > that I > > > > > > mentioned. > > > > > > > Considering the lumen > > > > > > > > > > ratings of > fluorescent > > > bulbs > > > > I've > > > > > > looked at, > > > > > > > your 17W bulbs might > > > > > > > > > > only have > 500-700 > > > lumens > > > > where the > > > > > BEST > > > > > > 20W > > > > > > > bulb (below) has > > > > > > > > > > 1075 lumens so > you > > > > > > > > > > could possibly > increase > > > your > > > > > lighting > > > > > > by 50% > > > > > > > to 100% just by > > > > > > > > > > changing to > that bulb. > > > At > > > > least, > > > > > with > > > > > > that > > > > > > > bulb, you'll be in the > > > > > > > > > > low-light > range for > > > plants on > > > > the > > > > > 20G > > > > > > but > > > > > > > the 29G will need some work. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Of course, you > should > > > find > > > > out > > > > > what > > > > > > the > > > > > > > lumens and K ratings are on > > > > > > > > > > the bulbs you > have so > > > you'll > > > > know > > > > > if > > > > > > you are > > > > > > > getting a small jump or > > > > > > > > > > a BIG jump in > lighting > > > just > > > > by > > > > > changing > > > > > > your > > > > > > > bulbs. Check your local > > > > > > > > > > WalMart for > bulbs. My > > > nearby > > > > > WalMart > > > > > > > SuperCenter has a really big > > > > > > > > > > assortment of > > > fluorescent > > > > tubes > > > > > and > > > > > > they > > > > > > > were cheaper than the Home > > > > > > > > > > Depot. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Something else > I'm > > > thinking > > > > about > > > > > for > > > > > > you is > > > > > > > going with 18" > > > > > > > > > > light-sticks > on > > > > > > > > > > each end of > your 29G > > > tank or > > > > front > > > > > or > > > > > > back > > > > > > > (back would hide it best > > > > > > > > > > but you decide > your > > > best > > > > > aesthetics) > > > > > > and > > > > > > > you'd have to make a DIY > > > > > > > > > > reflector for > it (white > > > > poster > > > > > board > > > > > > and > > > > > > > scotch tape would work) and > > > > > > > > > > that would get > more > > > lighting > > > > down > > > > > to > > > > > > the > > > > > > > bottom level plants in the > > > > > > > > > > 29G. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Lenny > Vasbinder > > > > > > > > > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > > > > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>> > > > > > > > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>>> > > > > > > > > (Links to any articles > > > > > > > > > > referenced in > above > > > reply > > > > are > > > > > listed on > > > > > > the > > > > > > > right side, > > > > > > > > > > alphabetically > under > > > Labels > > > > and > > > > > also > > > > > > under > > > > > > > Archives by Year, Month) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -----Original > > > Message----- > > > > > > > > > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > > > > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] > > > > > > > > > > On > > > > > > > > > > Behalf Of bill > 1433 > > > > > > > > > > Sent: > Wednesday, > > > November 11, > > > > 2009 > > > > > 3:42 > > > > > > PM > > > > > > > > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > > > > Subject: RE: > > > [AquaticLife] > > > > Re: > > > > > > > wisteria/lighting previous > > > > > > > > > > > question/response > > > revisited > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > It is what it > is type > > > of > > > > thing > > > > > Len. > > > > > > Site > > > > > > > says one thing but stamped > > > > > > > > > > or printed > right on the > > > tube > > > > is at > > > > > 17 > > > > > > > watts. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Bill > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > --- On Wed, > 11/11/09, > > > Lenny > > > > V. > > > > > aka > > > > > > GoldLenny > > > > > > > <GoldLenny@... > <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com>> > > > > > > > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > From: > Lenny V. aka > > > > GoldLenny > > > > > > <GoldLenny@... > <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com>> > > > > > > > > > > > Subject: > RE: > > > > [AquaticLife] > > > > > Re: > > > > > > > wisteria/lighting > > > > > > > > > > previous > > > > > > > > > > > > question/response > > > > revisited > > > > > > > > > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > > > > > Date: > Wednesday, > > > > November > > > > > 11, > > > > > > 2009, > > > > > > > 2:16 PM The > > > > > > > > > > problem might > be this > > > > > > > > > > > statement > in the > > > > > description... > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > "... > Hoods include > > > > 8000ºK > > > > > > bulb... > > > > > > > ...20W, 24"..." > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > That's > getting into > > > the > > > > > higher > > > > > > > green/blue Kelvin > > > > > > > > > > range... > > > > > > > > > > > closer to > the > > > > > > > > > > > 10,000K > actinic > > > type > > > > bulbs... > > > > > than > > > > > > the > > > > > > > 5000K to 6500K > > > > > > > > > > "Daylight" > bulbs > > > > > > > > > > > that > provide full > > > > spectrum > > > > > > lighting. > > > > > > > It's also only > > > > > > > > > > a 20W bulb > > > > > > > > > > > > (according to the > > > DFS > > > > site, > > > > > > although > > > > > > > you stated it was > > > > > > > > > > only 17W so > > > > > > > > > > > double > check this) > > > so > > > > it's > > > > > only > > > > > > 1WPG on > > > > > > > the 20G and > > > > > > > > > > only 0.69WPG > on > > > > > > > > > > > the 29G. > Of course, > > > if > > > > the > > > > > bulb > > > > > > puts > > > > > > > out a LOT more > > > > > > > > > > lumens (you > would > > > > > > > > > > > have to > do more > > > checking > > > > up > > > > > on the > > > > > > bulb > > > > > > > to find this), > > > > > > > > > > that would > help > > > > > > > > > > > a little > but not > > > much. > > > > I > > > > > think you > > > > > > need > > > > > > > at least > > > > > > > > > > 1WPG to have > success > > > > > > > > > > > with > low-light > > > plants, > > > > > although > > > > > > > floating plants like > > > > > > > > > > Anacharis, > > > > > > > > > > > > Hornwort, > > > Duckweed, > > > > etc., > > > > > would be > > > > > > up > > > > > > > close to the > > > > > > > > > > light and > benefit > > > > > > > > > > > from CO2 > from the > > > air > > > > and > > > > > would do > > > > > > OK > > > > > > > with your > > > > > > > > > > lighting... > but then > > > > > > > > > > > they > would also > > > block > > > > out > > > > > the > > > > > > lighting > > > > > > > to the rest of > > > > > > > > > > the tank. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I don't > see a lot > > > of > > > > options, > > > > > as > > > > > > far as > > > > > > > T-8 bulbs are > > > > > > > > > > concerned for > > > > > > > > > > > this size > fixture > > > but I > > > > see a > > > > > few > > > > > > > different T-12's... > > > > > > > > > > such as... > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > (My > rating is: GOOD > > > - > > > > but > > > > > see > > > > > > BETTER > > > > > > > and BEST options > > > > > > > > > > below... at > > > > > > > > > > > least as > far as > > > the > > > > bulbs on > > > > > this > > > > > > site > > > > > > > are concerned) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > http://www.servicelighting.com/Sylvania-22119-F20T12-DSGN50-T12-Straig > > > <http://www.servicelighting.com/Sylvania-22119-F20T12-DSGN50-T12-Straig> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > <http://www.servicelighting.com/Sylvania-22119-F20T12-DSGN50-T12-Straig > > > <http://www.servicelighting.com/Sylvania-22119-F20T12-DSGN50-T12-Straig>> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > <http://www.servicelighting.com/Sylvania-22119-F20T12-DSGN50-T12-Strai > > > <http://www.servicelighting.com/Sylvania-22119-F20T12-DSGN50-T12-Strai> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > <http://www.servicelighting.com/Sylvania-22119-F20T12-DSGN50-T12-Strai > > > <http://www.servicelighting.com/Sylvania-22119-F20T12-DSGN50-T12-Strai>> > > > > > > > > > g> > > > > > > > > > > > ht-Lin > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ear-Fluorescent-Light-Bulb > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Light > Output: 880 > > > > lumens > > > > > > > > > > > Refers to > the > > > literal > > > > measure > > > > > of > > > > > > the > > > > > > > light-output of a > > > > > > > > > > particular > > > > > > > > > > > light > bulb, > > > measured in > > > > the > > > > > number > > > > > > of > > > > > > > lumens. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Energy > Used: 20 > > > watts > > > > > > > > > > > "Watts" > is the > > > term > > > > applied > > > > > to > > > > > > the > > > > > > > amount of energy > > > > > > > > > > required and > used > > > > > > > > > > > by a > particular > > > light > > > > bulb. > > > > > It is > > > > > > an > > > > > > > international > > > > > > > > > > system unit > of > > > > > > > > > > > power > equal to one > > > joule > > > > per > > > > > > second. > > > > > > > Contrary to > > > > > > > > > > popular > belief, the > > > > > > > > > > > wattage > of a bulb > > > does > > > > not > > > > > > directly > > > > > > > measure the > > > > > > > > > > brightness; > the > > > > > > > > > > > "lumens" > of a light > > > is > > > > what > > > > > > defines the > > > > > > > actual light > > > > > > > > > > output. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Average > Lifetime: > > > 9,000 > > > > > hours > > > > > > > > > > > This > refers to an > > > > average > > > > > > lifetime > > > > > > > rating based on > > > > > > > > > > large > quantities in > > > > > > > > > > > test > groups. This > > > > testing > > > > > takes > > > > > > into > > > > > > > account usage of > > > > > > > > > > 3 hours per > > > > > > > > > > > start > for > > > fluorescent > > > > lamps > > > > > and > > > > > > 10 > > > > > > > hours per start for > > > > > > > > > > HID lamps. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Bulb > Type: T12 > > > > > > > > > > > The "Bulb > Type" is > > > > typically > > > > > a > > > > > > > combination of the > > > > > > > > > > style of bulb > as > > > > > > > > > > > well as > the width > > > of > > > > the > > > > > bulb. > > > > > > Usually, > > > > > > > the first > > > > > > > > > > couple letters > will > > > > > > > > > > > indicate > the type; > > > "G" > > > > would > > > > > > indicate > > > > > > > "Globe", "PAR" > > > > > > > > > > would > indicate > > > > > > > > > > > > "Parabolic > > > Reflector"... > > > > The > > > > > > numbers > > > > > > > indicate the > > > > > > > > > > diameter of > the > > > > > > > > > > > light > bulb in > > > eighths of > > > > an > > > > > inch; > > > > > > a > > > > > > > "G40" would be a > > > > > > > > > > "Globe" style > > > > > > > > > > > that is > "5 inches" > > > in > > > > > diameter. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Base > Type: Medium > > > > Bi-Pin > > > > > > > > > > > The > "Base" of a > > > light > > > > bulb is > > > > > the > > > > > > part > > > > > > > that either > > > > > > > > > > screws or > snaps > > > > > > > > > > > into a > receptacle. > > > Base > > > > Type > > > > > > > terminology may indicate > > > > > > > > > > common > > > > > > > > > > > > descriptive words > > > like > > > > > "Medium" > > > > > > or > > > > > > > "Candelabra", or > > > > > > > > > > may even > contain > > > > > > > > > > > numeric > codes that > > > > signify > > > > > size > > > > > > and > > > > > > > variety, like > > > > > > > > > > "E26" or > "2GX13". > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Color > Temperature: > > > > 5,000K > > > > > > > > > > > > Correlated Color > > > > Temperature > > > > > (CCT) > > > > > > is a > > > > > > > specification > > > > > > > > > > of the color > > > > > > > > > > > > appearance of a > > > lamp, > > > > > relating > > > > > > its > > > > > > > color to that of a > > > > > > > > > > reference > source > > > > > > > > > > > heated to > a > > > particular > > > > > > temperature, > > > > > > > measured in > > > > > > > > > > degrees Kelvin > (K). It > > > > > > > > > > > generally > measures > > > the > > > > > "warmth" > > > > > > or > > > > > > > "coolness" of light > > > > > > > > > > source > > > > > > > > > > > > appearance. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > CRI: 90 > > > > > > > > > > > CRI > refers to the > > > > "Color > > > > > > Rendering > > > > > > > Index" of a light > > > > > > > > > > bulb. > > > > > > > > > > > CRI > measures a > > > > > > > > > > > light > source and > > > grades > > > > its > > > > > > ability to > > > > > > > render the > > > > > > > > > > color of > objects > > > > > > > > > > > > "correctly," as > > > compared > > > > with > > > > > a > > > > > > > reference source with > > > > > > > > > > comparable > color > > > > > > > > > > > > temperature. 100 > > > is > > > > perfect > > > > > > rendering. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Length: > 24 inches > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > (BETTER - > slightly > > > > higher > > > > > lumens > > > > > > and > > > > > > > higher 6500K > > > > > > > > > > rating) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > http://www.servicelighting.com/Westinghouse-36516-F20T12-FS-T12-Straig > > > <http://www.servicelighting.com/Westinghouse-36516-F20T12-FS-T12-Straig> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > <http://www.servicelighting.com/Westinghouse-36516-F20T12-FS-T12-Straig > > > <http://www.servicelighting.com/Westinghouse-36516-F20T12-FS-T12-Straig>> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > <http://www.servicelighting.com/Westinghouse-36516-F20T12-FS-T12-Strai > > > <http://www.servicelighting.com/Westinghouse-36516-F20T12-FS-T12-Strai> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > <http://www.servicelighting.com/Westinghouse-36516-F20T12-FS-T12-Strai > > > <http://www.servicelighting.com/Westinghouse-36516-F20T12-FS-T12-Strai>> > > > > > > > > > g> > > > > > > > > > > > ht-Lin > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ear-Fluorescent-Light-Bulb > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Light > Output: 900 > > > > lumens > > > > > > > > > > > Energy > Used: 20 > > > watts > > > > > > > > > > > Average > Lifetime: > > > > 10,000 > > > > > hours > > > > > > > > > > > Bulb > Type: T12 > > > > > > > > > > > Base > Type: Medium > > > > Bi-Pin > > > > > > > > > > > Color > Temperature: > > > > 6,500K > > > > > > > > > > > CRI: 90 > > > > > > > > > > > Length: > 24 inches > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > (BEST, of > these > > > three - > > > > > around > > > > > > 20% > > > > > > > higher lumens and > > > > > > > > > > good 6,500K > > > > > > > > > > > rating, > although it > > > does > > > > have > > > > > a > > > > > > lower > > > > > > > CRI rating.. but > > > > > > > > > > still > > > > > > > > > > > passing) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > http://www.servicelighting.com/Sylvania-22083-F20T12-D-T12-Straight-Li > > > <http://www.servicelighting.com/Sylvania-22083-F20T12-D-T12-Straight-Li> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > <http://www.servicelighting.com/Sylvania-22083-F20T12-D-T12-Straight-Li > > > <http://www.servicelighting.com/Sylvania-22083-F20T12-D-T12-Straight-Li>> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > <http://www.servicelighting.com/Sylvania-22083-F20T12-D-T12-Straight-L > > > <http://www.servicelighting.com/Sylvania-22083-F20T12-D-T12-Straight-L> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > <http://www.servicelighting.com/Sylvania-22083-F20T12-D-T12-Straight-L > > > <http://www.servicelighting.com/Sylvania-22083-F20T12-D-T12-Straight-L>> > > > > > > > > > i> > > > > > > > > > > > near-F > > > > > > > > > > > > > > luorescent-Light-Bulb > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Light > Output: > > > 1,075 > > > > lumens > > > > > > > > > > > Energy > Used: 20 > > > watts > > > > > > > > > > > Average > Lifetime: > > > 9,000 > > > > > hours > > > > > > > > > > > Bulb > Type: T12 > > > > > > > > > > > Base > Type: Medium > > > > Bi-Pin > > > > > > > > > > > Color > Temperature: > > > > 6,500K > > > > > > > > > > > CRI: 76 > > > > > > > > > > > Length: > 24 inches > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Compare > the above > > > three > > > > to > > > > > what is > > > > > > sold > > > > > > > as a > > > > > > > > > > plant/aquarium > light by > > > > > > > > > > > the same > company, > > > which > > > > has > > > > > a > > > > > > lower > > > > > > > lumens, MUCH lower > > > > > > > > > > CRI rating > and > > > > > > > > > > > does not > list the > > > K > > > > rating > > > > > other > > > > > > than > > > > > > > to say "Plant" > > > > > > > > > > which is a > > > > > > > > > > > > subjective rating > > > > established > > > > > by > > > > > > the > > > > > > > manufacturer. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > (WORST) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > http://www.servicelighting.com/Westinghouse-36411-F20T12-PL-T12-Straig > > > <http://www.servicelighting.com/Westinghouse-36411-F20T12-PL-T12-Straig> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > <http://www.servicelighting.com/Westinghouse-36411-F20T12-PL-T12-Straig > > > <http://www.servicelighting.com/Westinghouse-36411-F20T12-PL-T12-Straig>> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > <http://www.servicelighting.com/Westinghouse-36411-F20T12-PL-T12-Strai > > > <http://www.servicelighting.com/Westinghouse-36411-F20T12-PL-T12-Strai> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > <http://www.servicelighting.com/Westinghouse-36411-F20T12-PL-T12-Strai > > > <http://www.servicelighting.com/Westinghouse-36411-F20T12-PL-T12-Strai>> > > > > > > > > > g> > > > > > > > > > > > ht-Lin > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ear-Fluorescent-Light-Bulb > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Light > Output: 700 > > > > lumens > > > > > (over 30% > > > > > > less > > > > > > > lighting > > > > > > > > > > than the > 1,075 > > > > > > > > > > > lumens > bulb > > > > > > > > > > > above) > > > > > > > > > > > Energy > Used: 20 > > > watts > > > > > > > > > > > Average > Lifetime: > > > > 10,000 > > > > > hours > > > > > > > > > > > Bulb > Type: T12 > > > > > > > > > > > Base > Type: Medium > > > > Bi-Pin > > > > > > > > > > > Color: > Plant > > > > > > > > > > > CRI: 61 > > > > > > > > > > > Length: > 24 inches > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > If any of > the > > > above > > > > have > > > > > much > > > > > > better > > > > > > > lumens than your > > > > > > > > > > current > > > > > > > > > > > > lighting... > > > > > > > > > > > and they > all have > > > better > > > > K > > > > > > ratings, > > > > > > > then any of them > > > > > > > > > > would be > better > > > > > > > > > > > for > you... but you > > > > would > > > > > still be > > > > > > stuck > > > > > > > with only 20 > > > > > > > > > > watts but > it's > > > > > > > > > > > the > LUMENS and K > > > rating > > > > that > > > > > count > > > > > > more > > > > > > > than watts. > > > > > > > > > > You need to > find > > > > > > > > > > > out the > lumens on > > > your > > > > bulb. > > > > > Try > > > > > > to > > > > > > > find it on the > > > > > > > > > > DFS site and > let > > > > > > > > > > > us know. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > You > should look at > > > the > > > > > > AHSupply.com > > > > > > > place for a > > > > > > > > > > retrofit kit > so you > > > > > > > > > > > can use > CFL's in > > > your > > > > > current > > > > > > hood. > > > > > > > That would > > > > > > > > > > probably be > your least > > > > > > > > > > > expensive > option. I > > > know > > > > you > > > > > don't > > > > > > like > > > > > > > electricity > > > > > > > > > > but I'm sure > you > > > > > > > > > > > know > someone that > > > could > > > > do > > > > > this > > > > > > for > > > > > > > you... on the > > > > > > > > > > cheap... or > over a > > > > > > > > > > > 6-pack. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Lenny > Vasbinder > > > > > > > > > > > Fish Blog > - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > > > > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>> > > > > > > > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>>> > > > > > > > > (Links to > > > > > > > > > > any articles > > > > > > > > > > > > referenced in > > > above > > > > reply > > > > > are > > > > > > listed on > > > > > > > the right > > > > > > > > > > side, > alphabetically > > > > > > > > > > > under > Labels and > > > also > > > > under > > > > > > Archives by > > > > > > > Year, Month) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -----Original > > > > Message----- > > > > > > > > > > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > > > > > > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] > > > > > > > > > > > On > > > > > > > > > > > Behalf Of > bill > > > 1433 > > > > > > > > > > > Sent: > Wednesday, > > > > November 11, > > > > > 2009 > > > > > > 9:33 > > > > > > > AM > > > > > > > > > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > > > > > Subject: > RE: > > > > [AquaticLife] > > > > > Re: > > > > > > > wisteria/lighting > > > > > > > > > > previous > > > > > > > > > > > > question/response > > > > > > > > > > > > revisited > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Hi > \\Steve// > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > At this > point, and > > > also > > > > to > > > > > refresh > > > > > > your > > > > > > > mind, and > > > > > > > > > > anyone > > > > > > > > > > > else on > the group > > > > > > > > > > > that may > have > > > interest. > > > > This > > > > > all > > > > > > got > > > > > > > started with > > > > > > > > > > my > > > > > > > > > > > search > for a tube > > > that > > > > > > > > > > > would > allow me > > > more > > > > light > > > > > output > > > > > > from > > > > > > > an All Glass > > > > > > > > > > Plastic > > > > > > > > > > > hood and > light. > > > > > > > > > > > This unit > comes > > > with a > > > > "color > > > > > type > > > > > > tube > > > > > > > at 17 watts > > > > > > > > > > that is > > > > > > > > > > > only 24 > inches > > > > > > > > > > > long. > This is for > > > a > > > > > 20/29-gallon > > > > > > tank. > > > > > > > I was stupid enough to buy > > > > > > > > > > > two of > them, one > > > for > > > > each > > > > > tank. > > > > > > For > > > > > > > further inspection > > > > > > > > > > here > > > > > > > > > > > is the > light: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > http://www.drsfostersmith.com/product/prod_display.cfm?pcatid=13447 > > > <http://www.drsfostersmith.com/product/prod_display.cfm?pcatid=13447> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > <http://www.drsfostersmith.com/product/prod_display.cfm?pcatid=13447 > > > <http://www.drsfostersmith.com/product/prod_display.cfm?pcatid=13447>> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > <http://www.drsfostersmith.com/product/prod_display.cfm?pcatid=13447 > > > <http://www.drsfostersmith.com/product/prod_display.cfm?pcatid=13447> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > <http://www.drsfostersmith.com/product/prod_display.cfm?pcatid=13447 > > > <http://www.drsfostersmith.com/product/prod_display.cfm?pcatid=13447>>> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > For those > that > > > would > > > > like to > > > > > > aggravate > > > > > > > themselves > > > > > > > > > > further, > > > > > > > > > > > I can > also state > > > > > > > > > > > that > these hoods > > > are > > > > very > > > > > > conducive to > > > > > > > growing Black Algae! > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Summoning > up, I > > > should > > > > have > > > > > only > > > > > > > purchased an > > > > > > > > > > All-Glass > > > > > > > > > > > cover and > then > > > > > > > > > > > probably > a double > > > tube > > > > light > > > > > of > > > > > > > sufficient wattage to > > > > > > > > > > bring > > > > > > > > > > > me up to > the > > > > > > > > > > > > recommended 2 or 3 > > > watts > > > > per > > > > > > gallon. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Ya live > and learn, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Bill > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > --- On > Tue, > > > 11/10/09, > > > > Steve > > > > > Szabo > > > > > > > <steve@... > <mailto:steve%40familyszabo.com> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > <mailto:steve%40familyszabo.com> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > <mailto:steve%40familyszabo.com>> > > > > > > > > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > From: Steve > > > Szabo > > > > <steve@... > <mailto:steve%40familyszabo.com> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > <mailto:steve%40familyszabo.com> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > <mailto:steve%40familyszabo.com>> > > > > > > > > > > > > > Subject: RE: > > > > > [AquaticLife] > > > > > > Re: > > > > > > > wisteria/lighting > > > > > > > > > > > previous > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > question/response > > > > > revisited > > > > > > > > > > > > To: > AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > > > > > > > Date: > > > Tuesday, > > > > November > > > > > 10, > > > > > > 2009, > > > > > > > 11:50 PM Bill, > > > > > > > > > > you > > > > > > > > > > > got it > right! The > > > > > > > > > > > > T > numbers > > > represent > > > > the > > > > > > diameter > > > > > > > of the bulb in > > > > > > > > > > 1/8" > > > > > > > > > > > > increments. A T4 > > > > > > > > > > > > is a > bulb 1/2" > > > in > > > > > diameter, > > > > > > T5 is > > > > > > > 5/8", t8 is > > > > > > > > > > 1" and > > > > > > > > > > > a t12 is > 1 1/2". > > > > > > > > > > > > As I > recall, > > > the F > > > > is > > > > > the > > > > > > wattage > > > > > > > of the bulb. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Lumens, not > > > > usually > > > > > stated on > > > > > > the > > > > > > > bulb is the > > > > > > > > > > actual > > > > > > > > > > > amount of > light > > > > > > > > > > > > > coming from > > > the > > > > bulb. > > > > > It > > > > > > really > > > > > > > does not have > > > > > > > > > > anything > > > > > > > > > > > to do > with > > > > > > > > > > > > > watts, though > > > more > > > > watts > > > > > will > > > > > > give > > > > > > > you more > > > > > > > > > > lumens, > > > > > > > > > > > but, also > the > > > > > > > > > > > > > phosphors used > > > in > > > > the > > > > > bulb > > > > > > affect > > > > > > > the amount of > > > > > > > > > > lumen > > > > > > > > > > > output. > Lumens > > > > > > > > > > > > and > lux are > > > often > > > > used > > > > > > > interchangeably, but they > > > > > > > > > > are > > > > > > > > > > > really > different > > > > > > > > > > > > > measurements. > > > Lux > > > > is > > > > > the > > > > > > measure > > > > > > > of illumination > > > > > > > > > > over > > > > > > > > > > > a given > area. It > > > > > > > > > > > > may > actually > > > be > > > > more > > > > > > important to > > > > > > > aquarists > > > > > > > > > > raising > > > > > > > > > > > plants > than the > > > > > > > > > > > > > lumen output. > > > Lux > > > > is > > > > > what is > > > > > > > measured by a light > > > > > > > > > > > meter, > for anyone > > > who > > > > > > > > > > > > > happens to > > > know > > > > what > > > > > they > > > > > > are--not > > > > > > > often seen > > > > > > > > > > with > > > > > > > > > > > today's > cameras > > > and > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > photographers. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Color > > > temperature > > > > is > > > > > > important. > > > > > > > Average daylight > > > > > > > > > > > (except > may in > > > > > > > > > > > > > Amber's area > > > where > > > > they > > > > > have > > > > > > 6 > > > > > > > months of > > > > > > > > > > darkness) has > > > > > > > > > > > a color > > > > > > > > > > > > > temperature > > > of > > > > > 5500-6000. > > > > > > > > > > > > An > overcast > > > day can > > > > have > > > > > a > > > > > > color > > > > > > > temperature of > > > > > > > > > > 6500. > > > > > > > > > > > As > mentioned > > > > > > > > > > > > > earlier, > > > plants > > > > need > > > > > light in > > > > > > two > > > > > > > color > > > > > > > > > > spectrums, > > > > > > > > > > > and, > actually they > > > > > > > > > > > > are > rather > > > narrow > > > > spans > > > > > of > > > > > > > wavelengths they > > > > > > > > > > benefit > > > > > > > > > > > from. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I > thought I > > > had a > > > > > bookmark > > > > > > > explaining this, but > > > > > > > > > > I > > > > > > > > > > > can't > find it > > > > > > > > > > > > > quickly (over > > > 400K > > > > of > > > > > > bookmarks, > > > > > > > and things have > > > > > > > > > > a > > > > > > > > > > > tendency > to get > > > > > > > > > > > > > lost), > > > however, > > > > some > > > > > > judicial > > > > > > > Googling will gain > > > > > > > > > > you > > > > > > > > > > > the > information. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > \\Steve// > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -----Original > > > > > Message----- > > > > > > > > > > > > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > > > > > > > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] > > > > > > > > > > > > On > > > > > > > > > > > > > Behalf Of > > > bill > > > > 1433 > > > > > > > > > > > > > Sent: > > > Tuesday, > > > > November > > > > > 10, > > > > > > 2009 > > > > > > > 10:20 PM > > > > > > > > > > > > To: > AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > > > > > > > Subject: Re: > > > > > [AquaticLife] > > > > > > Re: > > > > > > > wisteria/lighting > > > > > > > > > > > previous > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > question/response > > > > > revisited > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Yes, > Amber > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > It > was I, > > > looking > > > > for > > > > > the > > > > > > original > > > > > > > information > > > > > > > > > > and > > > > > > > > > > > also > looked back > > > on > > > > > > > > > > > > > \\Steve//'s > > > post > > > > at > > > > > group to > > > > > > try > > > > > > > and find. Ray > > > > > > > > > > had > > > > > > > > > > > mentioned > all this > > > > > > > > > > > > the > other day > > > > saying > > > > > that he > > > > > > > thought the posting > > > > > > > > > > came > > > > > > > > > > > from > \\Steve//. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I > was not > > > > successful in > > > > > my > > > > > > search. > > > > > > > Also, for me > > > > > > > > > > the > > > > > > > > > > > most > important > > > > > > > > > > > > part > was a > > > link to > > > > a > > > > > chart > > > > > > which > > > > > > > showed you > > > > > > > > > > exactly, > > > > > > > > > > > or > explained > > > > > > > > > > > > > exactly the > > > "T" > > > > > > > > > > > > > factor stands > > > for. > > > > For > > > > > > instance, > > > ><br/><br/>(Message over 64 KB, truncated)

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 44489	From: bill 1433	Date: 11/12/2009
Subject: Re: wisteria/lighting previous question/response revisited

The reference was to the fact that I have been warned NOT to get MTS,(I know what it is------I invented it!. Should I have a seige hit me-I'll be eating my own cooking. Bill --- On Thu, 11/12/09, Amber Berglund <arberglund@...> wrote: > From: Amber Berglund <arberglund@...> > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: wisteria/lighting previous question/response revisited > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Date: Thursday, November 12, 2009, 9:51 PM > Yeah I know I'm slow ;) Just got home > from work and was starting at the > bottom of new emails and working my way to the newest ;) > LOL. > That's okay, I don't mind being redundant now and then ;) > > I don't get your cooking reference but then again it's been > a long day > ;) I was talking about multi-tank syndrome, what MTS where > you referring > to? ;) LOL > > Oh and hubby says I suck as hangman ;) _ _ _ _! LOL > > Amber > > bill 1433 wrote: > > > > Hi Amber, > > > > No offense but your getting in the game at the 4th > quarter! > > > > We got Len on the how's, when's and we are currently > working > > on the Watt's--------------sorry I couldn't help that > one. > > Back it up just a bit and check the back and fourths > between us in > > the last two hours. > > > > Oh, sorry, you refered to the MTS? Oh ya, been there, > done that back in > > 197_. Simple reply on that one? I can't cook and hate > it when I try! > > Wife said one more time around with that and _ _ _. > I'm sure you get > > the picture? > > > > Bill > > > > --- On Thu, 11/12/09, Amber Berglund <arberglund@... > > > <mailto:arberglund%40gmail.com>> wrote: > > > > > From: Amber Berglund <arberglund@... > > > <mailto:arberglund%40gmail.com>> > > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: wisteria/lighting > previous > > question/response revisited > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > Date: Thursday, November 12, 2009, 9:36 PM > > > Perhaps you should ask what light > > > fixture he got? > > > He said it's 1/2 inch in diameter, which makes it > a T-4 for > > > sure, but > > > I'm not sure where he got the wattage from, > perhaps writing > > > on the bulb. > > > > > > Amber > > > > > > Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > > > > > > > > Can you show me a link to a T-4, 17W bulb? I > haven't > > > found a single one in > > > > all the reading that I've been doing. Remind > me how > > > long your bulbs are > > > > again? I scrolled down looking and didn't > see an exact > > > answer. In looking > > > > at your link to DFS about your fixture, I > see that for > > > the 29G/20G, > > > > it's 30" > > > > long with the 24" bulbs but I wanted to be > sure since > > > every site I look at > > > > for T-4's, they do not come in 17W or 24" > length so > > > I'm still thinking > > > > something is wrong with your calculations or > the > > > reading of the > > > > specs/calcs > > > > that you do have. > > > > > > > > Here are three different sites with their > lists of T-4 > > > bulbs and as > > > > you can > > > > see, there are NO 17W bulbs and no 24" > bulbs. > > > > > > > > http://www.lightbulbsdirect.com/page/001/CTGY/T4 > > <http://www.lightbulbsdirect.com/page/001/CTGY/T4> > > > > <http://www.lightbulbsdirect.com/page/001/CTGY/T4 > > <http://www.lightbulbsdirect.com/page/001/CTGY/T4>> > > > > http://www.buylighting.com/T4-Fluorescent-s/102.htm > > <http://www.buylighting.com/T4-Fluorescent-s/102.htm> > > > > <http://www.buylighting.com/T4-Fluorescent-s/102.htm > > <http://www.buylighting.com/T4-Fluorescent-s/102.htm>> > > > > > > http://www.servicelighting.com/T4-Straight-Linear-Fluorescent-Light-Bulbs > > > <http://www.servicelighting.com/T4-Straight-Linear-Fluorescent-Light-Bulbs> > > > > > > > > > <http://www.servicelighting.com/T4-Straight-Linear-Fluorescent-Light-Bulbs > > > <http://www.servicelighting.com/T4-Straight-Linear-Fluorescent-Light-Bulbs>> > > > > > > > > The closest that T-4's come are 20.5" or > 22-5/16" with > > > only one type/brand > > > > having the 22-5/16" bulb as a specialty bulb > and all > > > of the other > > > > T-4's are > > > > 20.5" and then jump up to 33 7/8" or 33.9" > depending > > > on the site. > > > > > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>> > > > > (Links to any articles referenced in above > reply are > > > listed on the right > > > > side, alphabetically under Labels and also > under > > > Archives by Year, Month) > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On > > > > Behalf Of bill 1433 > > > > Sent: Thursday, November 12, 2009 3:27 PM > > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: > wisteria/lighting > > > previous > > > > question/response > > > > revisited > > > > > > > > Hi Len, > > > > > > > > Like I said, they are a 1/2" but so far all > I can find > > > around here > > > > are "cool white" and "warm light" bulbs. > > > > > > > > Bill > > > > > > > > --- On Thu, 11/12/09, Lenny V. aka GoldLenny > <GoldLenny@... > > > <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com> > > > > > > > <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com>> > wrote: > > > > > > > > > From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@... > > > <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com> > > > > > > > <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com>> > > > > > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: > wisteria/lighting > > > previous > > > > question/response revisited > > > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > Date: Thursday, November 12, 2009, 3:48 > PM > > > > > Bulb diameter is easy. Take the > > > > > bulb and place it over a ruler/tape > > > > > measurer and look straight down on it. > It should > > > be > > > > > easy to discern between > > > > > 1/2" (T-4) and 1" (T-8) and the T-5 > (5/8") uses > > > a > > > > > completely different > > > > > single pin on each end so that would > eliminate > > > that > > > > > bulb. Or better yet.. > > > > > take your bulb to the WalMart and > compare apples > > > to apples > > > > > and you'll then > > > > > know exactly what you have and also be > able to > > > see what > > > > > your local WalMart > > > > > offers as far as better bulbs. You can > probably > > > get > > > > > much more lighting with > > > > > a new $5.00 to $10.00 bulb. > > > > > > > > > > Then Santa can still bring you the > bigger tank > > > and > > > > > accessories and your > > > > > other tanks will also be far more > functional in > > > case you > > > > > choose to sell them > > > > > or just have more tanks. As far as > selling your > > > > > unused stuff, > > > > > CraigsList.org is free and you can > renew the ad > > > every week > > > > > until you find > > > > > the right buyer who is willing to pay > the best > > > price you > > > > > can get. > > > > > > > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > > > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>> > > > > > (Links to any articles referenced in > above reply > > > are listed > > > > > on the right > > > > > side, alphabetically under Labels and > also under > > > Archives > > > > > by Year, Month) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] > > > > > On > > > > > Behalf Of bill 1433 > > > > > Sent: Thursday, November 12, 2009 2:27 > PM > > > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: > wisteria/lighting > > > previous > > > > > question/response > > > > > revisited > > > > > > > > > > Bulb Diameter Len, and now you see my > problem. I > > > > > haven't found any either. > > > > > Also reading and studying all that you > have sent > > > me so far > > > > > I come away from > > > > > all of this with one single thought, is > it worth > > > it? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > With all this being said and it so > close to the > > > time for a > > > > > visit from > > > > > "Santa", I'm wondering if I should not > put all > > > you have > > > > > taught me to better > > > > > use by just getting something like a > standard > > > 55-gallon > > > > > tank! These lights > > > > > do cost a bit but there is not a huge > different > > > between > > > > > size vs. cost from a > > > > > 29 to a 55. Then to is the issue of > what to do > > > with > > > > > the plastic covers I > > > > > already have should I go to the all > glass > > > covers. > > > > > > > > > > Sell them, sure but to whom? Remember, > I'm the > > > guy > > > > > that has a hard time > > > > > just trying to find a place to buy fish > around > > > here, there > > > > > just aren't that > > > > > many places or people. No matter what I > do, I > > > promise > > > > > to keep you posted. > > > > > > > > > > Thanks for all you've taught and helped > me with, > > > > > > > > > > Bill > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > --- On Thu, 11/12/09, Lenny V. aka > GoldLenny > > > <GoldLenny@... > <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com> > > > > > > > <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com>> > > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny > <GoldLenny@... > > > <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com> > > > > > > > <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com>> > > > > > > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: > > > wisteria/lighting > > > > > previous > > > > > question/response revisited > > > > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > Date: Thursday, November 12, 2009, > 2:42 PM > > > > > > Once again Bill.... you need to > get > > > > > > away from the "Watts" mindset. > It's > > > > > > just not applicable with the wide > array of > > > bulbs > > > > > available > > > > > > nowadays. That > > > > > > link goes to a CFL light strip and > 65 watts > > > of CFL > > > > > lighting > > > > > > is a LOT, LOT, > > > > > > LOT (3 LOTS) more lighting than 65 > watts of > > > an > > > > > incandescent > > > > > > bulb and a LOT, > > > > > > LOT (2 LOTS) more lighting than a > 65W > > > normal > > > > > fluorescent > > > > > > bulb. This would > > > > > > probably increase your lighting by > 10X's > > > over what you > > > > > have > > > > > > now. If you > > > > > > just went with 20W (range) CFL's, > you'd get > > > 2-3X's > > > > > more > > > > > > light than you > > > > > > currently have. > > > > > > > > > > > > You still need to do some more > research on > > > your > > > > > current > > > > > > bulbs to find out > > > > > > the specs on them. Without knowing > your > > > current > > > > > > specs, it's difficult to > > > > > > know how much more lighting you > might > > > want/need. > > > > > > > > > > > > Since you got your fixture and > bulbs from > > > DFS, I just > > > > > did a > > > > > > search of '17 > > > > > > watt fluorescent' and four bulbs > came up.. > > > one was a > > > > > CFL so > > > > > > that wasn't it > > > > > > and the other three are below BUT > none of > > > them are > > > > > T-4's... > > > > > > in fact, so far, > > > > > > I have not been able to find a > T-4, 17W > > > bulb > > > > > > anywhere. What are you > > > > > > measuring to come up with the 1/2" > figure? > > > Bulb > > > > > > diameter, pin separation or > > > > > > other??? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > http://www.drsfostersmith.com/product/prod_display.cfm?pcatid=3787 > > > <http://www.drsfostersmith.com/product/prod_display.cfm?pcatid=3787> > > > > > > > > > <http://www.drsfostersmith.com/product/prod_display.cfm?pcatid=3787 > > > <http://www.drsfostersmith.com/product/prod_display.cfm?pcatid=3787>> > > > > > > (24", > > > > > > T-8, 5500K, nothing for lumens) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > http://www.drsfostersmith.com/product/prod_display.cfm?pcatid=4491 > > > <http://www.drsfostersmith.com/product/prod_display.cfm?pcatid=4491> > > > > > > > > > <http://www.drsfostersmith.com/product/prod_display.cfm?pcatid=4491 > > > <http://www.drsfostersmith.com/product/prod_display.cfm?pcatid=4491>> > > > > > > (24", > > > > > > T-8, Actinic 420nm, nothing for > lumens) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > http://www.drsfostersmith.com/product/prod_display.cfm?pcatid=4489 > > > <http://www.drsfostersmith.com/product/prod_display.cfm?pcatid=4489> > > > > > > > > > <http://www.drsfostersmith.com/product/prod_display.cfm?pcatid=4489 > > > <http://www.drsfostersmith.com/product/prod_display.cfm?pcatid=4489>> > > > > > > (24", > > > > > > T-8, 6500K, nothing for lumens) > > > > > > > > > > > > You need to take your bulb out and > go to a > > > local > > > > > lighting > > > > > > store (department) > > > > > > or even the Walmart and see if > they can give > > > you more > > > > > info > > > > > > on it or at least > > > > > > you might find identical sized > bulbs that do > > > have > > > > > specs on > > > > > > them so you can > > > > > > be more informed about what you > have. > > > > > > > > > > > > While I was at the DFS site, and > since you > > > previously > > > > > > mentioned that you > > > > > > have an All-Glass hood that came > with the > > > one bulb > > > > > light > > > > > > strip, I did a > > > > > > search on DFS for 'All-Glass > light' and > > > found this > > > > > link for > > > > > > the only single > > > > > > bulb light strip that All-Glass > has on DFS' > > > site. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > http://www.drsfostersmith.com/product/prod_display.cfm?pcatid=3793 > > > <http://www.drsfostersmith.com/product/prod_display.cfm?pcatid=3793> > > > > > > > > > <http://www.drsfostersmith.com/product/prod_display.cfm?pcatid=3793 > > > <http://www.drsfostersmith.com/product/prod_display.cfm?pcatid=3793>> > > > > > > > > > > > > It comes in 16" or 20" lengths. > There's a > > > link to > > > > > > "View compatible Bulbs" > > > > > > in the Description tab, which > brings up a > > > page of > > > > > bulbs and > > > > > > ALL of the ones > > > > > > compatible for the 20" strip are > T-8 bulbs. > > > There > > > > > are > > > > > > a couple of dozen > > > > > > bulbs listed so I didn't go > through them > > > and > > > > > unfortunately, > > > > > > they do NOT list > > > > > > the wattage on that list so I > wasn't able to > > > find any > > > > > 17W > > > > > > bulbs without > > > > > > checking a bunch of links. Since > it was an > > > > > All-Glass > > > > > > fixture, I did click > > > > > > on the first All-Glass brand bulb > which > > > brought up > > > > > this > > > > > > page... > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > http://www.drsfostersmith.com/product/prod_display.cfm?pcatid=12850 > > > <http://www.drsfostersmith.com/product/prod_display.cfm?pcatid=12850> > > > > > > > > > <http://www.drsfostersmith.com/product/prod_display.cfm?pcatid=12850 > > > <http://www.drsfostersmith.com/product/prod_display.cfm?pcatid=12850>> > > > > > > > > > > > > And you will see that there is > either an > > > 18", 15W bulb > > > > > or a > > > > > > 24", 17W bulb, > > > > > > as well as others... and these are > the 8000K > > > bulbs > > > > > which > > > > > > were listed in the > > > > > > description on the website link > that you > > > posted > > > > > earlier > > > > > > BUT.. these are ALL > > > > > > T-8 bulbs, not T-4's so we're back > to that > > > spec issue > > > > > > again. This page does > > > > > > call them 8000K Daylight, Full > Spectrum > > > bulbs so maybe > > > > > they > > > > > > are OK but I > > > > > > wish that the DFS site would list > lumens > > > since that is > > > > > a > > > > > > critical, > > > > > > need-to-know piece of information > that is > > > missing. > > > > > As > > > > > > seen in my previous > > > > > > posts, the same sized bulbs can > have a lumen > > > output > > > > > that is > > > > > > 50% to 100% > > > > > > higher than a comparable bulb of > the same > > > size... and > > > > > that > > > > > > makes a HUGE > > > > > > difference in lighting. > > > > > > > > > > > > Once again, take the bulb to your > WalMart > > > and compare > > > > > > apples to apples and > > > > > > find out exactly what size bulb > you have and > > > while > > > > > there, > > > > > > look at other > > > > > > identical sized bulbs and look for > the > > > highest lumens > > > > > in > > > > > > the 5000K to 6500K > > > > > > range, buy one and bring it home > and see if > > > it's a > > > > > LOT > > > > > > brighter than what > > > > > > you now have. If so, that might do > the > > > trick. > > > > > > > > > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > > > > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>> > > > > > > (Links to any articles referenced > in above > > > reply are > > > > > listed > > > > > > on the right > > > > > > side, alphabetically under Labels > and also > > > under > > > > > Archives > > > > > > by Year, Month) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > > > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] > > > > > > On > > > > > > Behalf Of bill 1433 > > > > > > Sent: Thursday, November 12, 2009 > 12:12 PM > > > > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: > > > wisteria/lighting > > > > > previous > > > > > > question/response > > > > > > revisited > > > > > > > > > > > > Hi Amber, > > > > > > > > > > > > The links Len provided are very > close BUT > > > it's the > > > > > ends of > > > > > > the tube or pins > > > > > > that worry me. They are very close > but > > > "how"? > > > > > > > > > > > > Meaning this buying the tube, ok > by mail? > > > Now what > > > > > if > > > > > > it doesn't work? > > > > > > Rreturn a $10.00 tube the postage > would cost > > > more. > > > > > > I'm trying to work > > > > > > backward now from Len's link, and > get a > > > manufacture so > > > > > I > > > > > > can buy around > > > > > > here. Also I'm getting made enough > now to > > > scrape > > > > > the > > > > > > whole thing and just > > > > > > get a new All-Glass cover then > maybe one of > > > these: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > http://www.drsfostersmith.com/product/prod_display.cfm?c=3578+3733+9654+9871 > > > <http://www.drsfostersmith.com/product/prod_display.cfm?c=3578+3733+9654+9871> > > > > > > > > > <http://www.drsfostersmith.com/product/prod_display.cfm?c=3578+3733+9654+9871 > > > <http://www.drsfostersmith.com/product/prod_display.cfm?c=3578+3733+9654+9871>> > > > > > > &pcatid=9871 > > > > > > > > > > > > This link is not pointing to the > exact > > > Coralife > > > > > product I > > > > > > want at Doctors > > > > > > its # apn-16981, if you have their > catalog > > > but I can't > > > > > make > > > > > > it come up on > > > > > > search at their site. It is a > single rated > > > at 65 > > > > > > watts and is 24". > > > > > > > > > > > > Bill > > > > > > --- On Thu, 11/12/09, Amber > Berglund <arberglund@... > > > <mailto:arberglund%40gmail.com> > > > > > > > <mailto:arberglund%40gmail.com>> > > > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > From: Amber Berglund <arberglund@... > > > <mailto:arberglund%40gmail.com> > > > > > > > <mailto:arberglund%40gmail.com>> > > > > > > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] > Re: > > > wisteria/lighting > > > > > > previous > > > > > > question/response revisited > > > > > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > Date: Thursday, November 12, > 2009, > > > 12:59 PM > > > > > > > Bill does have T-4's if I > remember > > > > > > > correctly, maybe one of those > 20watt > > > > > > > bulbs will work for him and > provide > > > more lumens > > > > > than > > > > > > his > > > > > > > current bulbs do. > > > > > > > Did you check those links out > Bill? ;) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Amber > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Lenny V. aka GoldLenny > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Just because a fixture > currently > > > has a T-8 > > > > > or > > > > > > T-10, > > > > > > > does not mean it > > > > > > > > cannot > > > > > > > > use a T-12, and vice > versa. They > > > are all > > > > > medium > > > > > > bi-pin > > > > > > > bulbs, meaning they > > > > > > > > all will fit and work > UNLESS the > > > reflector > > > > > is so > > > > > > tight > > > > > > > that a T-12 cannot > > > > > > > > fit inside the fixture > but I > > > haven't seen > > > > > this as > > > > > > a > > > > > > > problem in the past. > > > > > > > > Usually, going with a > T-8 or T-10, > > > instead > > > > > of a > > > > > > T-12 > > > > > > > will give more lumens > > > > > > > > but in the case of this > particular > > > sized > > > > > bulb, > > > > > > the > > > > > > > T-12 may be the better > > > > > > > > option. Of course, we > still need > > > more > > > > > details on > > > > > > > Bill's exact bulb. We > > > > > > > > still do not know > anything except > > > that it's > > > > > 17 > > > > > > > watts... nothing about > > > > > > > > lumens, K rating or > anything else > > > for > > > > > comparison > > > > > > > purposes. As Johnny 5 > > > > > > > > once > > > > > > > > said... "Need more > input!" (I have > > > no clue > > > > > why > > > > > > that > > > > > > > OLD movie line popped > > > > > > > > into my head and I can't > blame it > > > on drugs > > > > > since > > > > > > I > > > > > > > didn't/don't do them... > > > > > > > > and as far as I know, > beer doesn't > > > cause > > > > > acid > > > > > > > flashbacks. LOL > > > > > > > > http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Short_Circuit > > <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Short_Circuit> > > > > <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Short_Circuit > > <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Short_Circuit>> > > > > > > > > <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Short_Circuit > > <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Short_Circuit> > > > > <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Short_Circuit > > <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Short_Circuit>>>) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Now... thinking back a > little. > > > Bill may > > > > > have > > > > > > T-4's and > > > > > > > if he does, those > > > > > > > > use the miniature bi-pin > base and > > > the above > > > > > > larger > > > > > > > T-#'s with medium > > > > > > > > bi-pin > > > > > > > > base would not work. If > this is > > > the case, > > > > > there > > > > > > are > > > > > > > other options > > > > > > > > listed on > > > > > > > > this page... > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > http://www.servicelighting.com/T4-Straight-Linear-Fluorescent-Light-Bulbs > > > <http://www.servicelighting.com/T4-Straight-Linear-Fluorescent-Light-Bulbs> > > > > > > > > > <http://www.servicelighting.com/T4-Straight-Linear-Fluorescent-Light-Bulbs > > > <http://www.servicelighting.com/T4-Straight-Linear-Fluorescent-Light-Bulbs>> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > <http://www.servicelighting.com/T4-Straight-Linear-Fluorescent-Light-Bulbs > > > <http://www.servicelighting.com/T4-Straight-Linear-Fluorescent-Light-Bulbs> > > > > > > > > > <http://www.servicelighting.com/T4-Straight-Linear-Fluorescent-Light-Bulbs > > > <http://www.servicelighting.com/T4-Straight-Linear-Fluorescent-Light-Bulbs>>> > > > > > > > > including this 20W, > 6400K, 1340 > > > Lumens bulb > > > > > - > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > http://www.servicelighting.com/Bulbrite-85220-F20T4-64K-F20T4-D-T4-Straight- > > > <http://www.servicelighting.com/Bulbrite-85220-F20T4-64K-F20T4-D-T4-Straight-> > > > > > > > > > <http://www.servicelighting.com/Bulbrite-85220-F20T4-64K-F20T4-D-T4-Straight- > > > <http://www.servicelighting.com/Bulbrite-85220-F20T4-64K-F20T4-D-T4-Straight->> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > <http://www.servicelighting.com/Bulbrite-85220-F20T4-64K-F20T4-D-T4-Straight > > > <http://www.servicelighting.com/Bulbrite-85220-F20T4-64K-F20T4-D-T4-Straight> > > > > > > > > > <http://www.servicelighting.com/Bulbrite-85220-F20T4-64K-F20T4-D-T4-Straight > > > <http://www.servicelighting.com/Bulbrite-85220-F20T4-64K-F20T4-D-T4-Straight>> > > > > > > -> > > > > > > > > > Linear-Fluorescent-Light-Bulb, > > > which sounds > > > > > like > > > > > > a > > > > > > > pretty good bulb > > > > > > > > from the > > > > > > > > specs and actually > provides more > > > lumens than > > > > > any > > > > > > of > > > > > > > the T-12's previously > > > > > > > > listed. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > > > > > > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>> > > > > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>>> > > > > > > > > (Links to any articles > referenced > > > in above > > > > > reply > > > > > > are > > > > > > > listed on the right > > > > > > > > side, alphabetically > under Labels > > > and also > > > > > under > > > > > > > Archives by Year, Month) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -----Original > Message----- > > > > > > > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > > > > > > > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On > > > > > > > > Behalf Of Amber > Berglund > > > > > > > > Sent: Thursday, November > 12, 2009 > > > 10:29 AM > > > > > > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > > Subject: Re: > [AquaticLife] Re: > > > > > wisteria/lighting > > > > > > > previous > > > > > > > > question/response > > > > > > > > revisited > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Bill has smaller bulbs, > I think > > > they are not > > > > > easy > > > > > > to > > > > > > > find in a higher > > > > > > > > wattage output, which is > what he > > > was looking > > > > > for > > > > > > a few > > > > > > > months back. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Amber > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Lenny V. aka GoldLenny > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I don't know what > you mean by > > > this. > > > > > Please > > > > > > > elaborate. What size tube? > > > > > > > > > I posted about > several > > > different bulbs > > > > > but > > > > > > all > > > > > > > were T-12's, which is > > > > > > > > > one of the most > common > > > sizes. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > > > > > > > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>> > > > > > > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>>> > > > > > > > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>> > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>>>> > > > > > > > > (Links to any articles > referenced > > > in > > > > > > > > > above reply are > listed on the > > > right > > > > > side, > > > > > > > alphabetically under Labels > > > > > > > > > and also under > Archives by > > > Year, > > > > > Month) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -----Original > Message----- > > > > > > > > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > > > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On > > > > > > > Behalf Of bill 1433 > > > > > > > > > Sent: Thursday, > November 12, > > > 2009 8:59 > > > > > AM > > > > > > > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > > > Subject: RE: > [AquaticLife] > > > Re: > > > > > > wisteria/lighting > > > > > > > previous > > > > > > > > > question/response > revisited > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Yes Len, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > But its finding > that size > > > tube with > > > > > more of > > > > > > > anything that's the problem. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Bill > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > --- On Wed, > 11/11/09, Lenny > > > V. aka > > > > > > GoldLenny > > > > > > > <GoldLenny@... > <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com> > > > <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com>> > > > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > From: Lenny V. > aka > > > GoldLenny > > > > > <GoldLenny@... > <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com> > > > <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com>> > > > > > > > > > > Subject: RE: > > > [AquaticLife] Re: > > > > > > > wisteria/lighting previous > > > > > > > > > > > question/response > > > revisited > > > > > > > > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > > > > Date: > Wednesday, > > > November 11, > > > > > 2009, > > > > > > 5:22 PM > > > > > > > Well, if you only have > > > > > > > > > > 17W, then you > could > > > definitely do > > > > > > better > > > > > > > with the 20W, higher lumen, > > > > > > > > > > better K > rating bulbs > > > that I > > > > > > mentioned. > > > > > > > Considering the lumen > > > > > > > > > > ratings of > fluorescent > > > bulbs I've > > > > > > looked at, > > > > > > > your 17W bulbs might > > > > > > > > > > only have > 500-700 lumens > > > where the > > > > > BEST > > > > > > 20W > > > > > > > bulb (below) has > > > > > > > > > > 1075 lumens so > you > > > > > > > > > > could possibly > increase > > > your > > > > > lighting > > > > > > by 50% > > > > > > > to 100% just by > > > > > > > > > > changing to > that bulb. > > > At least, > > > > > with > > > > > > that > > > > > > > bulb, you'll be in the > > > > > > > > > > low-light > range for > > > plants on the > > > > > 20G > > > > > > but > > > > > > > the 29G will need some work. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Of course, you > should > > > find out > > > > > what > > > > > > the > > > > > > > lumens and K ratings are on > > > > > > > > > > the bulbs you > have so > > > you'll know > > > > > if > > > > > > you are > > > > > > > getting a small jump or > > > > > > > > > > a BIG jump in > lighting > > > just by > > > > > changing > > > > > > your > > > > > > > bulbs. Check your local > > > > > > > > > > WalMart for > bulbs. My > > > nearby > > > > > WalMart > > > > > > > SuperCenter has a really big > > > > > > > > > > assortment of > > > fluorescent tubes > > > > > and > > > > > > they > > > > > > > were cheaper than the Home > > > > > > > > > > Depot. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Something else > I'm > > > thinking about > > > > > for > > > > > > you is > > > > > > > going with 18" > > > > > > > > > > light-sticks > on > > > > > > > > > > each end of > your 29G > > > tank or front > > > > > or > > > > > > back > > > > > > > (back would hide it best > > > > > > > > > > but you decide > your > > > best > > > > > aesthetics) > > > > > > and > > > > > > > you'd have to make a DIY > > > > > > > > > > reflector for > it (white > > > poster > > > > > board > > > > > > and > > > > > > > scotch tape would work) and > > > > > > > > > > that would get > more > > > lighting down > > > > > to > > > > > > the > > > > > > > bottom level plants in the > > > > > > > > > > 29G. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Lenny > Vasbinder > > > > > > > > > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>> > > > > > > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>>> > > > > > > > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>> > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>>>> > > > > > > > > (Links to any articles > > > > > > > > > > referenced in > above > > > reply are > > > > > listed on > > > > > > the > > > > > > > right side, > > > > > > > > > > alphabetically > under > > > Labels and > > > > > also > > > > > > under > > > > > > > Archives by Year, Month) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -----Original > > > Message----- > > > > > > > > > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > > > > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] > > > > > > > > > > On > > > > > > > > > > Behalf Of bill > 1433 > > > > > > > > > > Sent: > Wednesday, > > > November 11, 2009 > > > > > 3:42 > > > > > > PM > > > > > > > > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > > > > Subject: RE: > > > [AquaticLife] Re: > > > > > > > wisteria/lighting previous > > > > > > > > > > > question/response > > > revisited > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > It is what it > is type of > > > thing > > > > > Len. > > > > > > Site > > > > > > > says one thing but stamped > > > > > > > > > > or printed > right on the > > > tube is at > > > > > 17 > > > > > > > watts. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Bill > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > --- On Wed, > 11/11/09, > > > Lenny V. > > > > > aka > > > > > > GoldLenny > > > > > > > <GoldLenny@... > <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com> > > > <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com>> > > > > > > > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > From: > Lenny V. aka > > > GoldLenny > > > > > > <GoldLenny@... > <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com> > > > <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com>> > > > > > > > > > > > Subject: > RE: > > > [AquaticLife] > > > > > Re: > > > > > > > wisteria/lighting > > > > > > > > > > previous > > > > > > > > > > > > question/response > > > revisited > > > > > > > > > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > > > > > Date: > Wednesday, > > > November > > > > > 11, > > > > > > 2009, > > > > > > > 2:16 PM The > > > > > > > > > > problem might > be this > > > > > > > > > > > statement > in the > > > > > description... > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > "... > Hoods include > > > 8000ºK > > > > > > bulb... > > > > > > > ...20W, 24"..." > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > That's > getting into > > > the > > > > > higher > > > > > > > green/blue Kelvin > > > > > > > > > > range... > > > > > > > > > > > closer to > the > > > > > > > > > > > 10,000K > actinic > > > type bulbs... > > > > > than > > > > > > the > > > > > > > 5000K to 6500K > > > > > > > > > > "Daylight" > bulbs > > > > > > > > > > > that > provide full > > > spectrum > > > > > > lighting. > > > > > > > It's also only > > > > > > > > > > a 20W bulb > > > > > > > > > > > > (according to the > > > DFS site, > > > > > > although > > > > > > > you stated it was > > > > > > > > > > only 17W so > > > > > > > > > > > double > check this) > > > so it's > > > > > only > > > > > > 1WPG on > > > > > > > the 20G and > > > > > > > > > > only 0.69WPG > on > > > > > > > > > > > the 29G. > Of course, > > > if the > > > > > bulb > > > > > > puts > > > > > > > out a LOT more > > > > > > > > > > lumens (you > would > > > > > > > > > > > have to > do more > > > checking up > > > > > on the > > > > > > bulb > > > > > > > to find this), > > > > > > > > > > that would > help > > > > > > > > > > > a little > but not > > > much. I > > > > > think you > > > > > > need > > > > > > > at least > > > > > > > > > > 1WPG to have > success > > > > > > > > > > > with > low-light > > > plants, > > > > > although > > > > > > > floating plants like > > > > > > > > > > Anacharis, > > > > > > > > > > > Hornwort, > Duckweed, > > > etc., > > > > > would be > > > > > > up > > > > > > > close to the > > > > > > > > > > light and > benefit > > > > > > > > > > > from CO2 > from the > > > air and > > > > > would do > > > > > > OK > > > > > > > with your > > > > > > > > > > lighting... > but then > > > > > > > > > > > they > would also > > > block out > > > > > the > > > > > > lighting > > > > > > > to the rest of > > > > > > > > > > the tank. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I don't > see a lot > > > of options, > > > > > as > > > > > > far as > > > > > > > T-8 bulbs are > > > > > > > > > > concerned for > > > > > > > > > > > this size > fixture > > > but I see a > > > > > few > > > > > > > different T-12's... > > > > > > > > > > such as... > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > (My > rating is: GOOD > > > - but > > > > > see > > > > > > BETTER > > > > > > > and BEST options > > > > > > > > > > below... at > > > > > > > > > > > least as > far as the > > > bulbs on > > > > > this > > > > > > site > > > > > > > are concerned) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > http://www.servicelighting.com/Sylvania-22119-F20T12-DSGN50-T12-Straig > > > <http://www.servicelighting.com/Sylvania-22119-F20T12-DSGN50-T12-Straig> > > > > > > > > > <http://www.servicelighting.com/Sylvania-22119-F20T12-DSGN50-T12-Straig > > > <http://www.servicelighting.com/Sylvania-22119-F20T12-DSGN50-T12-Straig>> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > <http://www.servicelighting.com/Sylvania-22119-F20T12-DSGN50-T12-Straig > > > <http://www.servicelighting.com/Sylvania-22119-F20T12-DSGN50-T12-Straig> > > > > > > > > > <http://www.servicelighting.com/Sylvania-22119-F20T12-DSGN50-T12-Straig > > > <http://www.servicelighting.com/Sylvania-22119-F20T12-DSGN50-T12-Straig>>> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > <http://www.servicelighting.com/Sylvania-22119-F20T12-DSGN50-T12-Strai > > > <http://www.servicelighting.com/Sylvania-22119-F20T12-DSGN50-T12-Strai> > > > > > > > > > <http://www.servicelighting.com/Sylvania-22119-F20T12-DSGN50-T12-Strai > > > <http://www.servicelighting.com/Sylvania-22119-F20T12-DSGN50-T12-Strai>> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > <http://www.servicelighting.com/Sylvania-22119-F20T12-DSGN50-T12-Strai > > > <http://www.servicelighting.com/Sylvania-22119-F20T12-DSGN50-T12-Strai> > > > > > > > > > <http://www.servicelighting.com/Sylvania-22119-F20T12-DSGN50-T12-Strai > > > <http://www.servicelighting.com/Sylvania-22119-F20T12-DSGN50-T12-Strai>>> > > > > > > > > > g> > > > > > > > > > > > ht-Lin > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ear-Fluorescent-Light-Bulb > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Light > Output: 880 > > > lumens > > > > > > > > > > > Refers to > the > > > literal measure > > > > > of > > > > > > the > > > > > > > light-output of a > > > > > > > > > > particular > > > > > > > > > > > light > bulb, > > > measured in the > > > > > number > > > > > > of > > > > > > > lumens. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Energy > Used: 20 > > > watts > > > > > > > > > > > "Watts" > is the term > > > applied > > > > > to > > > > > > the > > > > > > > amount of energy > > > > > > > > > > required and > used > > > > > > > > > > > by a > particular > > > light bulb. > > > > > It is > > > > > > an > > > > > > > international > > > > > > > > > > system unit > of > > > > > > > > > > > power > equal to one > > > joule per > > > > > > second. > > > > > > > Contrary to > > > > > > > > > > popular > belief, the > > > > > > > > > > > wattage > of a bulb > > > does not > > > > > > directly > > > > > > > measure the > > > > > > > > > > brightness; > the > > > > > > > > > > > "lumens" > of a light > > > is what > > > > > > defines the > > > > > > > actual light > > > > > > > > > > output. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Average > Lifetime: > > > 9,000 > > > > > hours > > > > > > > > > > > This > refers to an > > > average > > > > > > lifetime > > > > > > > rating based on > > > > > > > > > > large > quantities in > > > > > > > > > > > test > groups. This > > > testing > > > > > takes > > > > > > into > > > > > > > account usage of > > > > > > > > > > 3 hours per > > > > > > > > > > > start > for > > > fluorescent lamps > > > > > and > > > > > > 10 > > > > > > > hours per start for > > > > > > > > > > HID lamps. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Bulb > Type: T12 > > > > > > > > > > > The "Bulb > Type" is > > > typically > > > > > a > > > > > > > combination of the > > > > > > > > > > style of bulb > as > > > > > > > > > > > well as > the width > > > of the > > > > > bulb. > > > > > > Usually, > > > > > > > the first > > > > > > > > > > couple letters > will > > > > > > > > > > > indicate > the type; > > > "G" would > > > > > > indicate > > > > > > > "Globe", "PAR" > > > > > > > > > > would > indicate > > > > > > > > > > > > "Parabolic > > > Reflector"... The > > > > > > numbers > > > > > > > indicate the > > > > > > > > > > diameter of > the > > > > > > > > > > > light > bulb in > > > eighths of an > > > > > inch; > > > > > > a > > > > > > > "G40" would be a > > > > > > > > > > "Globe" style > > > > > > > > > > > that is > "5 inches" > > > in > > > > > diameter. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Base > Type: Medium > > > Bi-Pin > > > > > > > > > > > The > "Base" of a > > > light bulb is > > > > > the > > > > > > part > > > > > > > that either > > > > > > > > > > screws or > snaps > > > > > > > > > > > into a > receptacle. > > > Base Type > > > > > > > terminology may indicate > > > > > > > > > > common > > > > > > > > > > > > descriptive words > > > like > > > > > "Medium" > > > > > > or > > > > > > > "Candelabra", or > > > > > > > > > > may even > contain > > > > > > > > > > > numeric > codes that > > > signify > > > > > size > > > > > > and > > > > > > > variety, like > > > > > > > > > > "E26" or > "2GX13". > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Color > Temperature: > > > 5,000K > > > > > > > > > > > > Correlated Color > > > Temperature > > > > > (CCT) > > > > > > is a > > > > > > > specification > > > > > > > > > > of the color > > > > > > > > > > > > appearance of a > > > lamp, > > > > > relating > > > > > > its > > > > > > > color to that of a > > > > > > > > > > reference > source > > > > > > > > > > > heated to > a > > > particular > > > > > > temperature, > > > > > > > measured in > > > > > > > > > > degrees Kelvin > (K). It > > > > > > > > > > > generally > measures > > > the > > > > > "warmth" > > > > > > or > > > > > > > "coolness" of light > > > > > > > > > > source > > > > > > > > > > > > appearance. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > CRI: 90 > > > > > > > > > > > CRI > refers to the > > > "Color > > > > > > Rendering > > > > > > > Index" of a light > > > > > > > > > > bulb. > > > > > > > > > > > CRI > measures a > > > > > > > > > > > light > source and > > > grades its > > > > > > ability to > > > > > > > render the > > > > > > > > > > color of > objects > > > > > > > > > > > > "correctly," as > > > compared with > > > > > a > > > > > > > reference source with > > > > > > > > > > comparable > color > > > > > > > > > > > > temperature. 100 is > > > perfect > > > > > > rendering. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Length: > 24 inches > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > (BETTER - > slightly > > > higher > > > > > lumens > > > > > > and > > > > > > > higher 6500K > > > > > > > > > > rating) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > http://www.servicelighting.com/Westinghouse-36516-F20T12-FS-T12-Straig > > > <http://www.servicelighting.com/Westinghouse-36516-F20T12-FS-T12-Straig> > > > > > > > > > <http://www.servicelighting.com/Westinghouse-36516-F20T12-FS-T12-Straig > > > <http://www.servicelighting.com/Westinghouse-36516-F20T12-FS-T12-Straig>> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > <http://www.servicelighting.com/Westinghouse-36516-F20T12-FS-T12-Straig > > > <http://www.servicelighting.com/Westinghouse-36516-F20T12-FS-T12-Straig> > > > > > > > > > <http://www.servicelighting.com/Westinghouse-36516-F20T12-FS-T12-Straig > > > <http://www.servicelighting.com/Westinghouse-36516-F20T12-FS-T12-Straig>>> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > <http://www.servicelighting.com/Westinghouse-36516-F20T12-FS-T12-Strai > > > <http://www.servicelighting.com/Westinghouse-36516-F20T12-FS-T12-Strai> > > > > > > > > > <http://www.servicelighting.com/Westinghouse-36516-F20T12-FS-T12-Strai > > > <http://www.servicelighting.com/Westinghouse-36516-F20T12-FS-T12-Strai>> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > <http://www.servicelighting.com/Westinghouse-36516-F20T12-FS-T12-Strai > > > <http://www.servicelighting.com/Westinghouse-36516-F20T12-FS-T12-Strai> > > > > > > > > > <http://www.servicelighting.com/Westinghouse-36516-F20T12-FS-T12-Strai > > > <http://www.servicelighting.com/Westinghouse-36516-F20T12-FS-T12-Strai>>> > > > > > > > > > g> > > > > > > > > > > > ht-Lin > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ear-Fluorescent-Light-Bulb > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Light > Output: 900 > > > lumens > > > > > > > > > > > Energy > Used: 20 > > > watts > > > > > > > > > > > Average > Lifetime: > > > 10,000 > > > > > hours > > > > > > > > > > > Bulb > Type: T12 > > > > > > > > > > > Base > Type: Medium > > > Bi-Pin > > > > > > > > > > > Color > Temperature: > > > 6,500K > > > > > > > > > > > CRI: 90 > > > > > > > > > > > Length: > 24 inches > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > (BEST, of > these > > > three - > > > > > around > > > > > > 20% > > > > > > > higher lumens and > > > > > > > > > > good 6,500K > > > > > > > > > > > rating, > although it > > > does have > > > > > a > > > > > > lower > > > > > > > CRI rating.. but > > > > > > > > > > still > > > > > > > > > > > passing) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > http://www.servicelighting.com/Sylvania-22083-F20T12-D-T12-Straight-Li > > > <http://www.servicelighting.com/Sylvania-22083-F20T12-D-T12-Straight-Li> > > > > > > > > > <http://www.servicelighting.com/Sylvania-22083-F20T12-D-T12-Straight-Li > > > <http://www.servicelighting.com/Sylvania-22083-F20T12-D-T12-Straight-Li>> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > <http://www.servicelighting.com/Sylvania-22083-F20T12-D-T12-Straight-Li > > > <http://www.servicelighting.com/Sylvania-22083-F20T12-D-T12-Straight-Li> > > > > > > > > > <http://www.servicelighting.com/Sylvania-22083-F20T12-D-T12-Straight-Li > > > <http://www.servicelighting.com/Sylvania-22083-F20T12-D-T12-Straight-Li>>> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > <http://www.servicelighting.com/Sylvania-22083-F20T12-D-T12-Straight-L > > > <http://www.servicelighting.com/Sylvania-22083-F20T12-D-T12-Straight-L> > > > > > > > > > <http://www.servicelighting.com/Sylvania-22083-F20T12-D-T12-Straight-L > > > <http://www.servicelighting.com/Sylvania-22083-F20T12-D-T12-Straight-L>> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > <http://www.servicelighting.com/Sylvania-22083-F20T12-D-T12-Straight-L > > > <http://www.servicelighting.com/Sylvania-22083-F20T12-D-T12-Straight-L> > > > > > > > > > <http://www.servicelighting.com/Sylvania-22083-F20T12-D-T12-Straight-L > > > <http://www.servicelighting.com/Sylvania-22083-F20T12-D-T12-Straight-L>>> > > > > > > > > > i> > > > > > > > > > > > near-F > > > > > > > > > > > > > > luorescent-Light-Bulb > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Light > Output: 1,075 > > > lumens > > > > > > > > > > > Energy > Used: 20 > > > watts > > > > > > > > > > > Average > Lifetime: > > > 9,000 > > > > > hours > > > > > > > > > > > Bulb > Type: T12 > > > > > > > > > > > Base > Type: Medium > > > Bi-Pin > > > > > > > > > > > Color > Temperature: > > > 6,500K > > > > > > > > > > > CRI: 76 > > > > > > > > > > > Length: > 24 inches > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Compare > the above > > > three to > > > > > what is > > > > > > sold > > > > > > > as a > > > > > > > > > > plant/aquarium > light by > > > > > > > > > > > the same > company, > > > which has > > > > > a > > > > > > lower > > > > > > > lumens, MUCH lower > > > > > > > > > > CRI rating > and > > > > > > > > > > > does not > list the K > > > rating > > > > > other > > > > > > than > > > > > > > to say "Plant" > > > > > > > > > > which is a > > > > > > > > > > > > subjective rating > > > established > > > > > by > > > > > > the > > > > > > > manufacturer. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > (WORST) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > http://www.servicelighting.com/Westinghouse-36411-F20T12-PL-T12-Straig > > > <http://www.servicelighting.com/Westinghouse-36411-F20T12-PL-T12-Straig> > > > > > > > > > <http://www.servicelighting.com/Westinghouse-36411-F20T12-PL-T12-Straig > > > <http://www.servicelighting.com/Westinghouse-36411-F20T12-PL-T12-Straig>> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > <http://www.servicelighting.com/Westinghouse-36411-F20T12-PL-T12-Straig > > > <http://www.servicelighting.com/Westinghouse-36411-F20T12-PL-T12-Straig> > > > > > > > > > <http://www.servicelighting.com/Westinghouse-36411-F20T12-PL-T12-Straig > > > <http://www.servicelighting.com/Westinghouse-36411-F20T12-PL-T12-Straig>>> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > <http://www.servicelighting.com/Westinghouse-36411-F20T12-PL-T12-Strai > > > <http://www.servicelighting.com/Westinghouse-36411-F20T12-PL-T12-Strai> > > > > > > > > > <http://www.servicelighting.com/Westinghouse-36411-F20T12-PL-T12-Strai > > > <http://www.servicelighting.com/Westinghouse-36411-F20T12-PL-T12-Strai>> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > <http://www.servicelighting.com/Westinghouse-36411-F20T12-PL-T12-Strai > > > <http://www.servicelighting.com/Westinghouse-36411-F20T12-PL-T12-Strai> > > > > > > > > > <http://www.servicelighting.com/Westinghouse-36411-F20T12-PL-T12-Strai > > > <http://www.servicelighting.com/Westinghouse-36411-F20T12-PL-T12-Strai>>> > > > > > > > > > g> > > > > > > > > > > > ht-Lin > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ear-Fluorescent-Light-Bulb > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Light > Output: 700 > > > lumens > > > > > (over 30% > > > > > > less > > > > > > > lighting > > > > > > > > > > than the > 1,075 > > > > > > > > > > > lumens > bulb > > > > > > > > > > > above) > > > > > > > > > > > Energy > Used: 20 > > > watts > > > > > > > > > > > Average > Lifetime: > > > 10,000 > > > > > hours > > > > > > > > > > > Bulb > Type: T12 > > > > > > > > > > > Base > Type: Medium > > > Bi-Pin > > > > > > > > > > > Color: > Plant > > > > > > > > > > > CRI: 61 > > > > > > > > > > > Length: > 24 inches > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > If any of > the above > > > have > > > > > much > > > > > > better > > > > > > > lumens than your > > > > > > > > > > current > > > > > > > > > > > > lighting... > > > > > > > > > > > and they > all have > > > better K > > > > > > ratings, > > > > > > > then any of them > > > > > > > > > > would be > better > > > > > > > > > > > for > you... but you > > > would > > > > > still be > > > > > > stuck > > > > > > > with only 20 > > > > > > > > > > watts but > it's > > > > > > > > > > > the > LUMENS and K > > > rating that > > > > > count > > > > > > more > > > > > > > than watts. > > > > > > > > > > You need to > find > > > > > > > > > > > out the > lumens on > > > your bulb. > > > > > Try > > > > > > to > > > > > > > find it on the > > > > > > > > > > DFS site and > let > > > > > > > > > > > us know. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > You > should look at > > > the > > > > > > AHSupply.com > > > > > > > place for a > > > > > > > > > > retrofit kit > so you > > > > > > > > > > > can use > CFL's in > > > your > > > > > current > > > > > > hood. > > > > > > > That would > > > > > > > > > > probably be > your least > > > > > > > > > > > expensive > option. I > > > know you > > > > > don't > > > > > > like > > > > > > > electricity > > > > > > > > > > but I'm sure > you > > > > > > > > > > > know > someone that > > > could do > > > > > this > > > > > > for > > > > > > > you... on the > > > > > > > > > > cheap... or > over a > > > > > > > > > > > 6-pack. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Lenny > Vasbinder > > > > > > > > > > > Fish Blog > - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>> > > > > > > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>>> > > > > > > > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>> > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>>>> > > > > > > > > (Links to > > > > > > > > > > any articles > > > > > > > > > > > > referenced in above > > > reply > > > > > are > > > > > > listed on > > > > > > > the right > > > > > > > > > > side, > alphabetically > > > > > > > > > > > under > Labels and > > > also under > > > > > > Archives by > > > > > > > Year, Month) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -----Original > > > Message----- > > > > > > > > > > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > > > > > > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] > > > > > > > > > > > On > > > > > > > > > > > Behalf Of > bill > > > 1433 > > > > > > > > > > > Sent: > Wednesday, > > > November 11, > > > > > 2009 > > > > > > 9:33 > > > > > > > AM > > > > > > > > > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > > > > > Subject: > RE: > > > [AquaticLife] > > > > > Re: > > > > > > > wisteria/lighting > > > > > > > > > > previous > > > > > > > > > > > > question/response > > > > > > > > > > > > revisited > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Hi > \\Steve// > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > At this > point, and > > > also to > > > > > refresh > > > > > > your > > > > > > > mind, and > > > > > > > > > > anyone > > > > > > > > > > > else on > the group > > > > > > > > > > > that may > have > > > interest. This > > > > > all > > > > > > got > > > > > > > started with > > > > > > > > > > my > > > > > > > > > > > search > for a tube > > > that > > > > > > > > > > > would > allow me more > > > light > > > > > output > > > > > > from > > > > > > > an All Glass > > > > > > > > > > Plastic > > > > > > > > > > > hood and > light. > > > > > > > > > > > This unit > comes > > > with a "color > > > > > type > > > > > > tube > > > > > > > at 17 watts > > > > > > > > > > that is > > > > > > > > > > > only 24 > inches > > > > > > > > > > > long. > This is for > > > a > > > > > 20/29-gallon > > > > > > tank. > > > > > > > I was stupid enough to buy > > > > > > > > > > > two of > them, one > > > for each > > > > > tank. > > > > > > For > > > > > > > further inspection > > > > > > > > > > here > > > > > > > > > > > is the > light: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > http://www.drsfostersmith.com/product/prod_display.cfm?pcatid=13447 > > > <http://www.drsfostersmith.com/product/prod_display.cfm?pcatid=13447> > > > > > > > > > <http://www.drsfostersmith.com/product/prod_display.cfm?pcatid=13447 > > > <http://www.drsfostersmith.com/product/prod_display.cfm?pcatid=13447>> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > <http://www.drsfostersmith.com/product/prod_display.cfm?pcatid=13447 > > > <http://www.drsfostersmith.com/product/prod_display.cfm?pcatid=13447> > > > > > > > > > <http://www.drsfostersmith.com/product/prod_display.cfm?pcatid=13447 > > > <http://www.drsfostersmith.com/product/prod_display.cfm?pcatid=13447>>> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > <http://www.drsfostersmith.com/product/prod_display.cfm?pcatid=13447 > > > <http://www.drsfostersmith.com/product/prod_display.cfm?pcatid=13447> > > > > > > > > > <http://www.drsfostersmith.com/product/prod_display.cfm?pcatid=13447 > > > <http://www.drsfostersmith.com/product/prod_display.cfm?pcatid=13447>> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > <http://www.drsfostersmith.com/product/prod_display.cfm?pcatid=13447 > > > <http://www.drsfostersmith.com/product/prod_display.cfm?pcatid=13447> > > > > > > > > > <http://www.drsfostersmith.com/product/prod_display.cfm?pcatid=13447 > > > <http://www.drsfostersmith.com/product/prod_display.cfm?pcatid=13447>>>> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > For those > that > > > would like to > > > > > > aggravate > > > > > > > themselves > > > > > > > > > > further, > > > > > > > > > > > I can > also state > > > > > > > > > > > that > these hoods > > > are very > > > > > > conducive to > > > > > > > growing Black Algae! > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Summoning > up, I > > > should have > > > > > only > > > > > > > purchased an > > > > > > > > > > All-Glass > > > > > > > > > > > cover and > then > > > > > > > > > > > probably > a double > > > tube light > > > > > of > > > > > > > sufficient wattage to > > > > > > > > > > bring > > > > > > > > > > > me up to > the > > > > > > > > > > > > recommended 2 or 3 > > > watts per > > > > > > gallon. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Ya live > and learn, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Bill > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > --- On > Tue, > > > 11/10/09, Steve > > > > > Szabo > > > > > > > <steve@... > <mailto:steve%40familyszabo.com> > > > <mailto:steve%40familyszabo.com> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > <mailto:steve%40familyszabo.com> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > <mailto:steve%40familyszabo.com>> > > > > > > > > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > From: Steve > > > Szabo <steve@... > <mailto:steve%40familyszabo.com> > > > > > > > <mailto:steve%40familyszabo.com> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > <mailto:steve%40familyszabo.com> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > <mailto:steve%40familyszabo.com>> > > > > > > > > > > > > > Subject: RE: > > > > > [AquaticLife] > > > > > > Re: > > > > > > > wisteria/lighting > > > > > > > > > > > previous > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > question/response > > > > > revisited > > > > > > > > > > > > To: > AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > > > > > > > Date: Tuesday, > > > November > > > > > 10, > > > > > > 2009, > > > > > > > 11:50 PM Bill, > > > > > > > > > > you > > > > > > > > > > > got it > right! The > > > > > > > > > > > > T > numbers > > > represent the > > > > > > diameter > > > > > > > of the bulb in > > > > > > > > > > 1/8" > > > > > > > > > > > > increments. A T4 > > > > > > > > > > > > is a > bulb 1/2" > > > in > > > > > diameter, > > > > > > T5 is > > > > > > > 5/8", t8 is > > > > > > > > > > 1" and > > > > > > > > > > > a t12 is > 1 1/2". > > > > > > > > > > > > As I > recall, > > > the F is > > > > > the > > > > > > wattage > > > > > > > of the bulb. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Lumens, not > > > usually > > > > > stated on > > > > > > the > > > > > > > bulb is the > > > > > > > > > > actual > > > > > > > > > > > amount of > light > > > > > > > > > > > > > coming from > > > the bulb. > > > > > It > > > > > > really > > > > > > > does not have > > > > > > > > > > anything > > > > > > > > > > > to do > with > > > > > > > > > > > > > watts, though > > > more watts > > > > > will > > > > > > give > > > > > > > you more > > > > > > > > > > lumens, > > > > > > > > > > > but, also > the > > > > > > > > > > > > > phosphors used > > > in the > > > > > bulb > > > > > > affect > > > > > > > the amount of > > > > > > > > > > lumen > > > > > > > > > > > output. > Lumens > > > > > > > > > > > > and > lux are > > > often used > > > > > > > interchangeably, but they > > > > > > > > > > are > > > > > > > > > > > really > different > > > > > > > > > > > > > measurements. > > > Lux is > > > > > the > > > > > > measure > > > > > > > of illumination > > > > > > > > > > over > > > > > > > > > > > a given > area. It > > > > > > > > > > > > may > actually > > > be more > > > > > > important to > > > > > > > aquarists > > > > > > > > > > raising > > > > > > > > > > > plants > than the > > > > > > > > > > > > > lumen output. > > > Lux is > > > > > what is > > > > > > > measured by a light > > > > > > > > > > > meter, > for anyone > > > who > > > > > > > > > > > > > happens to > > > know what > > > > > they > > > > > > are--not > > > > > > > often seen > > > > > > > > > > with > > > > > > > > > > > today's > cameras > > > and > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > photographers. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Color > > > temperature is > > > > > > important. > > > > > > > Average daylight > > > > > > > > > > > (except > may in > > > > > > > > > > > > > Amber's area > > > where they > > > > > have > > > > > > 6 > > > > > > > months of > > > > > > > ><br/><br/>(Message over 64 KB, truncated)

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 44490	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 11/12/2009
Subject: Re: wisteria/lighting previous question/response revisited

Santa, err I mean hubby says I'd be eating my own cooking too if I asked for another fish tank for Christmas ;) LOL Amber bill 1433 wrote: > > The reference was to the fact that I have been warned NOT > to get MTS,(I know what it is------I invented it!. Should > I have a seige hit me-I'll be eating my own cooking. > > Bill > > --- On Thu, 11/12/09, Amber Berglund <arberglund@... > <mailto:arberglund%40gmail.com>> wrote: > > > From: Amber Berglund <arberglund@... > <mailto:arberglund%40gmail.com>> > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: wisteria/lighting previous > question/response revisited > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > Date: Thursday, November 12, 2009, 9:51 PM > > Yeah I know I'm slow ;) Just got home > > from work and was starting at the > > bottom of new emails and working my way to the newest ;) > > LOL. > > That's okay, I don't mind being redundant now and then ;) > > > > I don't get your cooking reference but then again it's been > > a long day > > ;) I was talking about multi-tank syndrome, what MTS where > > you referring > > to? ;) LOL > > > > Oh and hubby says I suck as hangman ;) _ _ _ _! LOL > > > > Amber > > > > bill 1433 wrote: > > > > > > Hi Amber, > > > > > > No offense but your getting in the game at the 4th > > quarter! > > > > > > We got Len on the how's, when's and we are currently > > working > > > on the Watt's--------------sorry I couldn't help that > > one. > > > Back it up just a bit and check the back and fourths > > between us in > > > the last two hours. > > > > > > Oh, sorry, you refered to the MTS? Oh ya, been there, > > done that back in > > > 197_. Simple reply on that one? I can't cook and hate > > it when I try! > > > Wife said one more time around with that and _ _ _. > > I'm sure you get > > > the picture? > > > > > > Bill > > > > > > --- On Thu, 11/12/09, Amber Berglund <arberglund@... > <mailto:arberglund%40gmail.com> > > > > > <mailto:arberglund%40gmail.com>> wrote: > > > > > > > From: Amber Berglund <arberglund@... > <mailto:arberglund%40gmail.com> > > > > > <mailto:arberglund%40gmail.com>> > > > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: wisteria/lighting > > previous > > > question/response revisited > > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > Date: Thursday, November 12, 2009, 9:36 PM > > > > Perhaps you should ask what light > > > > fixture he got? > > > > He said it's 1/2 inch in diameter, which makes it > > a T-4 for > > > > sure, but > > > > I'm not sure where he got the wattage from, > > perhaps writing > > > > on the bulb. > > > > > > > > Amber > > > > > > > > Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > > > > > > > > > > Can you show me a link to a T-4, 17W bulb? I > > haven't > > > > found a single one in > > > > > all the reading that I've been doing. Remind > > me how > > > > long your bulbs are > > > > > again? I scrolled down looking and didn't > > see an exact > > > > answer. In looking > > > > > at your link to DFS about your fixture, I > > see that for > > > > the 29G/20G, > > > > > it's 30" > > > > > long with the 24" bulbs but I wanted to be > > sure since > > > > every site I look at > > > > > for T-4's, they do not come in 17W or 24" > > length so > > > > I'm still thinking > > > > > something is wrong with your calculations or > > the > > > > reading of the > > > > > specs/calcs > > > > > that you do have. > > > > > > > > > > Here are three different sites with their > > lists of T-4 > > > > bulbs and as > > > > > you can > > > > > see, there are NO 17W bulbs and no 24" > > bulbs. > > > > > > > > > > http://www.lightbulbsdirect.com/page/001/CTGY/T4 > <http://www.lightbulbsdirect.com/page/001/CTGY/T4> > > > <http://www.lightbulbsdirect.com/page/001/CTGY/T4 > <http://www.lightbulbsdirect.com/page/001/CTGY/T4>> > > > > > <http://www.lightbulbsdirect.com/page/001/CTGY/T4 > <http://www.lightbulbsdirect.com/page/001/CTGY/T4> > > > <http://www.lightbulbsdirect.com/page/001/CTGY/T4 > <http://www.lightbulbsdirect.com/page/001/CTGY/T4>>> > > > > > http://www.buylighting.com/T4-Fluorescent-s/102.htm > <http://www.buylighting.com/T4-Fluorescent-s/102.htm> > > > <http://www.buylighting.com/T4-Fluorescent-s/102.htm > <http://www.buylighting.com/T4-Fluorescent-s/102.htm>> > > > > > <http://www.buylighting.com/T4-Fluorescent-s/102.htm > <http://www.buylighting.com/T4-Fluorescent-s/102.htm> > > > <http://www.buylighting.com/T4-Fluorescent-s/102.htm > <http://www.buylighting.com/T4-Fluorescent-s/102.htm>>> > > > > > > > > > http://www.servicelighting.com/T4-Straight-Linear-Fluorescent-Light-Bulbs > <http://www.servicelighting.com/T4-Straight-Linear-Fluorescent-Light-Bulbs> > > > > > > <http://www.servicelighting.com/T4-Straight-Linear-Fluorescent-Light-Bulbs > <http://www.servicelighting.com/T4-Straight-Linear-Fluorescent-Light-Bulbs>> > > > > > > > > > > > > > <http://www.servicelighting.com/T4-Straight-Linear-Fluorescent-Light-Bulbs > <http://www.servicelighting.com/T4-Straight-Linear-Fluorescent-Light-Bulbs> > > > > > > <http://www.servicelighting.com/T4-Straight-Linear-Fluorescent-Light-Bulbs > <http://www.servicelighting.com/T4-Straight-Linear-Fluorescent-Light-Bulbs>>> > > > > > > > > > > The closest that T-4's come are 20.5" or > > 22-5/16" with > > > > only one type/brand > > > > > having the 22-5/16" bulb as a specialty bulb > > and all > > > > of the other > > > > > T-4's are > > > > > 20.5" and then jump up to 33 7/8" or 33.9" > > depending > > > > on the site. > > > > > > > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > > > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>>> > > > > > (Links to any articles referenced in above > > reply are > > > > listed on the right > > > > > side, alphabetically under Labels and also > > under > > > > Archives by Year, Month) > > > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On > > > > > Behalf Of bill 1433 > > > > > Sent: Thursday, November 12, 2009 3:27 PM > > > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: > > wisteria/lighting > > > > previous > > > > > question/response > > > > > revisited > > > > > > > > > > Hi Len, > > > > > > > > > > Like I said, they are a 1/2" but so far all > > I can find > > > > around here > > > > > are "cool white" and "warm light" bulbs. > > > > > > > > > > Bill > > > > > > > > > > --- On Thu, 11/12/09, Lenny V. aka GoldLenny > > <GoldLenny@... <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com> > > > > > <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com> > > > > > > > > > <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com>> > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@... > <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com> > > > > > <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com> > > > > > > > > > <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com>> > > > > > > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: > > wisteria/lighting > > > > previous > > > > > question/response revisited > > > > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > Date: Thursday, November 12, 2009, 3:48 > > PM > > > > > > Bulb diameter is easy. Take the > > > > > > bulb and place it over a ruler/tape > > > > > > measurer and look straight down on it. > > It should > > > > be > > > > > > easy to discern between > > > > > > 1/2" (T-4) and 1" (T-8) and the T-5 > > (5/8") uses > > > > a > > > > > > completely different > > > > > > single pin on each end so that would > > eliminate > > > > that > > > > > > bulb. Or better yet.. > > > > > > take your bulb to the WalMart and > > compare apples > > > > to apples > > > > > > and you'll then > > > > > > know exactly what you have and also be > > able to > > > > see what > > > > > > your local WalMart > > > > > > offers as far as better bulbs. You can > > probably > > > > get > > > > > > much more lighting with > > > > > > a new $5.00 to $10.00 bulb. > > > > > > > > > > > > Then Santa can still bring you the > > bigger tank > > > > and > > > > > > accessories and your > > > > > > other tanks will also be far more > > functional in > > > > case you > > > > > > choose to sell them > > > > > > or just have more tanks. As far as > > selling your > > > > > > unused stuff, > > > > > > CraigsList.org is free and you can > > renew the ad > > > > every week > > > > > > until you find > > > > > > the right buyer who is willing to pay > > the best > > > > price you > > > > > > can get. > > > > > > > > > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > > > > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>> > > > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>>> > > > > > > (Links to any articles referenced in > > above reply > > > > are listed > > > > > > on the right > > > > > > side, alphabetically under Labels and > > also under > > > > Archives > > > > > > by Year, Month) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > > > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] > > > > > > On > > > > > > Behalf Of bill 1433 > > > > > > Sent: Thursday, November 12, 2009 2:27 > > PM > > > > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: > > wisteria/lighting > > > > previous > > > > > > question/response > > > > > > revisited > > > > > > > > > > > > Bulb Diameter Len, and now you see my > > problem. I > > > > > > haven't found any either. > > > > > > Also reading and studying all that you > > have sent > > > > me so far > > > > > > I come away from > > > > > > all of this with one single thought, is > > it worth > > > > it? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > With all this being said and it so > > close to the > > > > time for a > > > > > > visit from > > > > > > "Santa", I'm wondering if I should not > > put all > > > > you have > > > > > > taught me to better > > > > > > use by just getting something like a > > standard > > > > 55-gallon > > > > > > tank! These lights > > > > > > do cost a bit but there is not a huge > > different > > > > between > > > > > > size vs. cost from a > > > > > > 29 to a 55. Then to is the issue of > > what to do > > > > with > > > > > > the plastic covers I > > > > > > already have should I go to the all > > glass > > > > covers. > > > > > > > > > > > > Sell them, sure but to whom? Remember, > > I'm the > > > > guy > > > > > > that has a hard time > > > > > > just trying to find a place to buy fish > > around > > > > here, there > > > > > > just aren't that > > > > > > many places or people. No matter what I > > do, I > > > > promise > > > > > > to keep you posted. > > > > > > > > > > > > Thanks for all you've taught and helped > > me with, > > > > > > > > > > > > Bill > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > --- On Thu, 11/12/09, Lenny V. aka > > GoldLenny > > > > <GoldLenny@... <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com> > > <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com> > > > > > > > > > <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com>> > > > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny > > <GoldLenny@... <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com> > > > > > <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com> > > > > > > > > > <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com>> > > > > > > > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: > > > > wisteria/lighting > > > > > > previous > > > > > > question/response revisited > > > > > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > Date: Thursday, November 12, 2009, > > 2:42 PM > > > > > > > Once again Bill.... you need to > > get > > > > > > > away from the "Watts" mindset. > > It's > > > > > > > just not applicable with the wide > > array of > > > > bulbs > > > > > > available > > > > > > > nowadays. That > > > > > > > link goes to a CFL light strip and > > 65 watts > > > > of CFL > > > > > > lighting > > > > > > > is a LOT, LOT, > > > > > > > LOT (3 LOTS) more lighting than 65 > > watts of > > > > an > > > > > > incandescent > > > > > > > bulb and a LOT, > > > > > > > LOT (2 LOTS) more lighting than a > > 65W > > > > normal > > > > > > fluorescent > > > > > > > bulb. This would > > > > > > > probably increase your lighting by > > 10X's > > > > over what you > > > > > > have > > > > > > > now. If you > > > > > > > just went with 20W (range) CFL's, > > you'd get > > > > 2-3X's > > > > > > more > > > > > > > light than you > > > > > > > currently have. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > You still need to do some more > > research on > > > > your > > > > > > current > > > > > > > bulbs to find out > > > > > > > the specs on them. Without knowing > > your > > > > current > > > > > > > specs, it's difficult to > > > > > > > know how much more lighting you > > might > > > > want/need. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Since you got your fixture and > > bulbs from > > > > DFS, I just > > > > > > did a > > > > > > > search of '17 > > > > > > > watt fluorescent' and four bulbs > > came up.. > > > > one was a > > > > > > CFL so > > > > > > > that wasn't it > > > > > > > and the other three are below BUT > > none of > > > > them are > > > > > > T-4's... > > > > > > > in fact, so far, > > > > > > > I have not been able to find a > > T-4, 17W > > > > bulb > > > > > > > anywhere. What are you > > > > > > > measuring to come up with the 1/2" > > figure? > > > > Bulb > > > > > > > diameter, pin separation or > > > > > > > other??? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > http://www.drsfostersmith.com/product/prod_display.cfm?pcatid=3787 > <http://www.drsfostersmith.com/product/prod_display.cfm?pcatid=3787> > > > > > > <http://www.drsfostersmith.com/product/prod_display.cfm?pcatid=3787 > <http://www.drsfostersmith.com/product/prod_display.cfm?pcatid=3787>> > > > > > > > > > > > > > <http://www.drsfostersmith.com/product/prod_display.cfm?pcatid=3787 > <http://www.drsfostersmith.com/product/prod_display.cfm?pcatid=3787> > > > > > > <http://www.drsfostersmith.com/product/prod_display.cfm?pcatid=3787 > <http://www.drsfostersmith.com/product/prod_display.cfm?pcatid=3787>>> > > > > > > > (24", > > > > > > > T-8, 5500K, nothing for lumens) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > http://www.drsfostersmith.com/product/prod_display.cfm?pcatid=4491 > <http://www.drsfostersmith.com/product/prod_display.cfm?pcatid=4491> > > > > > > <http://www.drsfostersmith.com/product/prod_display.cfm?pcatid=4491 > <http://www.drsfostersmith.com/product/prod_display.cfm?pcatid=4491>> > > > > > > > > > > > > > <http://www.drsfostersmith.com/product/prod_display.cfm?pcatid=4491 > <http://www.drsfostersmith.com/product/prod_display.cfm?pcatid=4491> > > > > > > <http://www.drsfostersmith.com/product/prod_display.cfm?pcatid=4491 > <http://www.drsfostersmith.com/product/prod_display.cfm?pcatid=4491>>> > > > > > > > (24", > > > > > > > T-8, Actinic 420nm, nothing for > > lumens) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > http://www.drsfostersmith.com/product/prod_display.cfm?pcatid=4489 > <http://www.drsfostersmith.com/product/prod_display.cfm?pcatid=4489> > > > > > > <http://www.drsfostersmith.com/product/prod_display.cfm?pcatid=4489 > <http://www.drsfostersmith.com/product/prod_display.cfm?pcatid=4489>> > > > > > > > > > > > > > <http://www.drsfostersmith.com/product/prod_display.cfm?pcatid=4489 > <http://www.drsfostersmith.com/product/prod_display.cfm?pcatid=4489> > > > > > > <http://www.drsfostersmith.com/product/prod_display.cfm?pcatid=4489 > <http://www.drsfostersmith.com/product/prod_display.cfm?pcatid=4489>>> > > > > > > > (24", > > > > > > > T-8, 6500K, nothing for lumens) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > You need to take your bulb out and > > go to a > > > > local > > > > > > lighting > > > > > > > store (department) > > > > > > > or even the Walmart and see if > > they can give > > > > you more > > > > > > info > > > > > > > on it or at least > > > > > > > you might find identical sized > > bulbs that do > > > > have > > > > > > specs on > > > > > > > them so you can > > > > > > > be more informed about what you > > have. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > While I was at the DFS site, and > > since you > > > > previously > > > > > > > mentioned that you > > > > > > > have an All-Glass hood that came > > with the > > > > one bulb > > > > > > light > > > > > > > strip, I did a > > > > > > > search on DFS for 'All-Glass > > light' and > > > > found this > > > > > > link for > > > > > > > the only single > > > > > > > bulb light strip that All-Glass > > has on DFS' > > > > site. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > http://www.drsfostersmith.com/product/prod_display.cfm?pcatid=3793 > <http://www.drsfostersmith.com/product/prod_display.cfm?pcatid=3793> > > > > > > <http://www.drsfostersmith.com/product/prod_display.cfm?pcatid=3793 > <http://www.drsfostersmith.com/product/prod_display.cfm?pcatid=3793>> > > > > > > > > > > > > > <http://www.drsfostersmith.com/product/prod_display.cfm?pcatid=3793 > <http://www.drsfostersmith.com/product/prod_display.cfm?pcatid=3793> > > > > > > <http://www.drsfostersmith.com/product/prod_display.cfm?pcatid=3793 > <http://www.drsfostersmith.com/product/prod_display.cfm?pcatid=3793>>> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > It comes in 16" or 20" lengths. > > There's a > > > > link to > > > > > > > "View compatible Bulbs" > > > > > > > in the Description tab, which > > brings up a > > > > page of > > > > > > bulbs and > > > > > > > ALL of the ones > > > > > > > compatible for the 20" strip are > > T-8 bulbs. > > > > There > > > > > > are > > > > > > > a couple of dozen > > > > > > > bulbs listed so I didn't go > > through them > > > > and > > > > > > unfortunately, > > > > > > > they do NOT list > > > > > > > the wattage on that list so I > > wasn't able to > > > > find any > > > > > > 17W > > > > > > > bulbs without > > > > > > > checking a bunch of links. Since > > it was an > > > > > > All-Glass > > > > > > > fixture, I did click > > > > > > > on the first All-Glass brand bulb > > which > > > > brought up > > > > > > this > > > > > > > page... > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > http://www.drsfostersmith.com/product/prod_display.cfm?pcatid=12850 > <http://www.drsfostersmith.com/product/prod_display.cfm?pcatid=12850> > > > > > > <http://www.drsfostersmith.com/product/prod_display.cfm?pcatid=12850 > <http://www.drsfostersmith.com/product/prod_display.cfm?pcatid=12850>> > > > > > > > > > > > > > <http://www.drsfostersmith.com/product/prod_display.cfm?pcatid=12850 > <http://www.drsfostersmith.com/product/prod_display.cfm?pcatid=12850> > > > > > > <http://www.drsfostersmith.com/product/prod_display.cfm?pcatid=12850 > <http://www.drsfostersmith.com/product/prod_display.cfm?pcatid=12850>>> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > And you will see that there is > > either an > > > > 18", 15W bulb > > > > > > or a > > > > > > > 24", 17W bulb, > > > > > > > as well as others... and these are > > the 8000K > > > > bulbs > > > > > > which > > > > > > > were listed in the > > > > > > > description on the website link > > that you > > > > posted > > > > > > earlier > > > > > > > BUT.. these are ALL > > > > > > > T-8 bulbs, not T-4's so we're back > > to that > > > > spec issue > > > > > > > again. This page does > > > > > > > call them 8000K Daylight, Full > > Spectrum > > > > bulbs so maybe > > > > > > they > > > > > > > are OK but I > > > > > > > wish that the DFS site would list > > lumens > > > > since that is > > > > > > a > > > > > > > critical, > > > > > > > need-to-know piece of information > > that is > > > > missing. > > > > > > As > > > > > > > seen in my previous > > > > > > > posts, the same sized bulbs can > > have a lumen > > > > output > > > > > > that is > > > > > > > 50% to 100% > > > > > > > higher than a comparable bulb of > > the same > > > > size... and > > > > > > that > > > > > > > makes a HUGE > > > > > > > difference in lighting. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Once again, take the bulb to your > > WalMart > > > > and compare > > > > > > > apples to apples and > > > > > > > find out exactly what size bulb > > you have and > > > > while > > > > > > there, > > > > > > > look at other > > > > > > > identical sized bulbs and look for > > the > > > > highest lumens > > > > > > in > > > > > > > the 5000K to 6500K > > > > > > > range, buy one and bring it home > > and see if > > > > it's a > > > > > > LOT > > > > > > > brighter than what > > > > > > > you now have. If so, that might do > > the > > > > trick. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > > > > > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>> > > > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>>> > > > > > > > (Links to any articles referenced > > in above > > > > reply are > > > > > > listed > > > > > > > on the right > > > > > > > side, alphabetically under Labels > > and also > > > > under > > > > > > Archives > > > > > > > by Year, Month) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > > > > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] > > > > > > > On > > > > > > > Behalf Of bill 1433 > > > > > > > Sent: Thursday, November 12, 2009 > > 12:12 PM > > > > > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: > > > > wisteria/lighting > > > > > > previous > > > > > > > question/response > > > > > > > revisited > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Hi Amber, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > The links Len provided are very > > close BUT > > > > it's the > > > > > > ends of > > > > > > > the tube or pins > > > > > > > that worry me. They are very close > > but > > > > "how"? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Meaning this buying the tube, ok > > by mail? > > > > Now what > > > > > > if > > > > > > > it doesn't work? > > > > > > > Rreturn a $10.00 tube the postage > > would cost > > > > more. > > > > > > > I'm trying to work > > > > > > > backward now from Len's link, and > > get a > > > > manufacture so > > > > > > I > > > > > > > can buy around > > > > > > > here. Also I'm getting made enough > > now to > > > > scrape > > > > > > the > > > > > > > whole thing and just > > > > > > > get a new All-Glass cover then > > maybe one of > > > > these: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > http://www.drsfostersmith.com/product/prod_display.cfm?c=3578+3733+9654+9871 > <http://www.drsfostersmith.com/product/prod_display.cfm?c=3578+3733+9654+9871> > > > > > > <http://www.drsfostersmith.com/product/prod_display.cfm?c=3578+3733+9654+9871 > <http://www.drsfostersmith.com/product/prod_display.cfm?c=3578+3733+9654+9871>> > > > > > > > > > > > > > <http://www.drsfostersmith.com/product/prod_display.cfm?c=3578+3733+9654+9871 > <http://www.drsfostersmith.com/product/prod_display.cfm?c=3578+3733+9654+9871> > > > > > > <http://www.drsfostersmith.com/product/prod_display.cfm?c=3578+3733+9654+9871 > <http://www.drsfostersmith.com/product/prod_display.cfm?c=3578+3733+9654+9871>>> > > > > > > > &pcatid=9871 > > > > > > > > > > > > > > This link is not pointing to the > > exact > > > > Coralife > > > > > > product I > > > > > > > want at Doctors > > > > > > > its # apn-16981, if you have their > > catalog > > > > but I can't > > > > > > make > > > > > > > it come up on > > > > > > > search at their site. It is a > > single rated > > > > at 65 > > > > > > > watts and is 24". > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Bill > > > > > > > --- On Thu, 11/12/09, Amber > > Berglund <arberglund@... <mailto:arberglund%40gmail.com> > > > > > <mailto:arberglund%40gmail.com> > > > > > > > > > <mailto:arberglund%40gmail.com>> > > > > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > From: Amber Berglund <arberglund@... > <mailto:arberglund%40gmail.com> > > > > > <mailto:arberglund%40gmail.com> > > > > > > > > > <mailto:arberglund%40gmail.com>> > > > > > > > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] > > Re: > > > > wisteria/lighting > > > > > > > previous > > > > > > > question/response revisited > > > > > > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > > Date: Thursday, November 12, > > 2009, > > > > 12:59 PM > > > > > > > > Bill does have T-4's if I > > remember > > > > > > > > correctly, maybe one of those > > 20watt > > > > > > > > bulbs will work for him and > > provide > > > > more lumens > > > > > > than > > > > > > > his > > > > > > > > current bulbs do. > > > > > > > > Did you check those links out > > Bill? ;) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Amber > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Lenny V. aka GoldLenny > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Just because a fixture > > currently > > > > has a T-8 > > > > > > or > > > > > > > T-10, > > > > > > > > does not mean it > > > > > > > > > cannot > > > > > > > > > use a T-12, and vice > > versa. They > > > > are all > > > > > > medium > > > > > > > bi-pin > > > > > > > > bulbs, meaning they > > > > > > > > > all will fit and work > > UNLESS the > > > > reflector > > > > > > is so > > > > > > > tight > > > > > > > > that a T-12 cannot > > > > > > > > > fit inside the fixture > > but I > > > > haven't seen > > > > > > this as > > > > > > > a > > > > > > > > problem in the past. > > > > > > > > > Usually, going with a > > T-8 or T-10, > > > > instead > > > > > > of a > > > > > > > T-12 > > > > > > > > will give more lumens > > > > > > > > > but in the case of this > > particular > > > > sized > > > > > > bulb, > > > > > > > the > > > > > > > > T-12 may be the better > > > > > > > > > option. Of course, we > > still need > > > > more > > > > > > details on > > > > > > > > Bill's exact bulb. We > > > > > > > > > still do not know > > anything except > > > > that it's > > > > > > 17 > > > > > > > > watts... nothing about > > > > > > > > > lumens, K rating or > > anything else > > > > for > > > > > > comparison > > > > > > > > purposes. As Johnny 5 > > > > > > > > > once > > > > > > > > > said... "Need more > > input!" (I have > > > > no clue > > > > > > why > > > > > > > that > > > > > > > > OLD movie line popped > > > > > > > > > into my head and I can't > > blame it > > > > on drugs > > > > > > since > > > > > > > I > > > > > > > > didn't/don't do them... > > > > > > > > > and as far as I know, > > beer doesn't > > > > cause > > > > > > acid > > > > > > > > flashbacks. LOL > > > > > > > > > http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Short_Circuit > <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Short_Circuit> > > > <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Short_Circuit > <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Short_Circuit>> > > > > > <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Short_Circuit > <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Short_Circuit> > > > <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Short_Circuit > <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Short_Circuit>>> > > > > > > > > > <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Short_Circuit > <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Short_Circuit> > > > <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Short_Circuit > <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Short_Circuit>> > > > > > <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Short_Circuit > <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Short_Circuit> > > > <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Short_Circuit > <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Short_Circuit>>>>) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Now... thinking back a > > little. > > > > Bill may > > > > > > have > > > > > > > T-4's and > > > > > > > > if he does, those > > > > > > > > > use the miniature bi-pin > > base and > > > > the above > > > > > > > larger > > > > > > > > T-#'s with medium > > > > > > > > > bi-pin > > > > > > > > > base would not work. If > > this is > > > > the case, > > > > > > there > > > > > > > are > > > > > > > > other options > > > > > > > > > listed on > > > > > > > > > this page... > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > http://www.servicelighting.com/T4-Straight-Linear-Fluorescent-Light-Bulbs > <http://www.servicelighting.com/T4-Straight-Linear-Fluorescent-Light-Bulbs> > > > > > > <http://www.servicelighting.com/T4-Straight-Linear-Fluorescent-Light-Bulbs > <http://www.servicelighting.com/T4-Straight-Linear-Fluorescent-Light-Bulbs>> > > > > > > > > > > > > > <http://www.servicelighting.com/T4-Straight-Linear-Fluorescent-Light-Bulbs > <http://www.servicelighting.com/T4-Straight-Linear-Fluorescent-Light-Bulbs> > > > > > > <http://www.servicelighting.com/T4-Straight-Linear-Fluorescent-Light-Bulbs > <http://www.servicelighting.com/T4-Straight-Linear-Fluorescent-Light-Bulbs>>> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > <http://www.servicelighting.com/T4-Straight-Linear-Fluorescent-Light-Bulbs > <http://www.servicelighting.com/T4-Straight-Linear-Fluorescent-Light-Bulbs> > > > > > > <http://www.servicelighting.com/T4-Straight-Linear-Fluorescent-Light-Bulbs > <http://www.servicelighting.com/T4-Straight-Linear-Fluorescent-Light-Bulbs>> > > > > > > > > > > > > > <http://www.servicelighting.com/T4-Straight-Linear-Fluorescent-Light-Bulbs > <http://www.servicelighting.com/T4-Straight-Linear-Fluorescent-Light-Bulbs> > > > > > > <http://www.servicelighting.com/T4-Straight-Linear-Fluorescent-Light-Bulbs > <http://www.servicelighting.com/T4-Straight-Linear-Fluorescent-Light-Bulbs>>>> > > > > > > > > > including this 20W, > > 6400K, 1340 > > > > Lumens bulb > > > > > > - > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > http://www.servicelighting.com/Bulbrite-85220-F20T4-64K-F20T4-D-T4-Straight- > <http://www.servicelighting.com/Bulbrite-85220-F20T4-64K-F20T4-D-T4-Straight-> > > > > > > <http://www.servicelighting.com/Bulbrite-85220-F20T4-64K-F20T4-D-T4-Straight- > <http://www.servicelighting.com/Bulbrite-85220-F20T4-64K-F20T4-D-T4-Straight->> > > > > > > > > > > > > > <http://www.servicelighting.com/Bulbrite-85220-F20T4-64K-F20T4-D-T4-Straight- > <http://www.servicelighting.com/Bulbrite-85220-F20T4-64K-F20T4-D-T4-Straight-> > > > > > > <http://www.servicelighting.com/Bulbrite-85220-F20T4-64K-F20T4-D-T4-Straight- > <http://www.servicelighting.com/Bulbrite-85220-F20T4-64K-F20T4-D-T4-Straight->>> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > <http://www.servicelighting.com/Bulbrite-85220-F20T4-64K-F20T4-D-T4-Straight > <http://www.servicelighting.com/Bulbrite-85220-F20T4-64K-F20T4-D-T4-Straight> > > > > > > <http://www.servicelighting.com/Bulbrite-85220-F20T4-64K-F20T4-D-T4-Straight > <http://www.servicelighting.com/Bulbrite-85220-F20T4-64K-F20T4-D-T4-Straight>> > > > > > > > > > > > > > <http://www.servicelighting.com/Bulbrite-85220-F20T4-64K-F20T4-D-T4-Straight > <http://www.servicelighting.com/Bulbrite-85220-F20T4-64K-F20T4-D-T4-Straight> > > > > > > <http://www.servicelighting.com/Bulbrite-85220-F20T4-64K-F20T4-D-T4-Straight > <http://www.servicelighting.com/Bulbrite-85220-F20T4-64K-F20T4-D-T4-Straight>>> > > > > > > > -> > > > > > > > > > > > Linear-Fluorescent-Light-Bulb, > > > > which sounds > > > > > > like > > > > > > > a > > > > > > > > pretty good bulb > > > > > > > > > from the > > > > > > > > > specs and actually > > provides more > > > > lumens than > > > > > > any > > > > > > > of > > > > > > > > the T-12's previously > > > > > > > > > listed. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > > > > > > > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>> > > > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>>> > > > > > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>> > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>>>> > > > > > > > > > (Links to any articles > > referenced > > > > in above > > > > > > reply > > > > > > > are > > > > > > > > listed on the right > > > > > > > > > side, alphabetically > > under Labels > > > > and also > > > > > > under > > > > > > > > Archives by Year, Month) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -----Original > > Message----- > > > > > > > > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On > > > > > > > > > Behalf Of Amber > > Berglund > > > > > > > > > Sent: Thursday, November > > 12, 2009 > > > > 10:29 AM > > > > > > > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > > > Subject: Re: > > [AquaticLife] Re: > > > > > > wisteria/lighting > > > > > > > > previous > > > > > > > > > question/response > > > > > > > > > revisited > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Bill has smaller bulbs, > > I think > > > > they are not > > > > > > easy > > > > > > > to > > > > > > > > find in a higher > > > > > > > > > wattage output, which is > > what he > > > > was looking > > > > > > for > > > > > > > a few > > > > > > > > months back. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Amber > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Lenny V. aka GoldLenny > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I don't know what > > you mean by > > > > this. > > > > > > Please > > > > > > > > elaborate. What size tube? > > > > > > > > > > I posted about > > several > > > > different bulbs > > > > > > but > > > > > > > all > > > > > > > > were T-12's, which is > > > > > > > > > > one of the most > > common > > > > sizes. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > > > > > > > > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>> > > > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>>> > > > > > > > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>>>> > > > > > > > > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>> > > > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>>> > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>> > > > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>>>>> > > > > > > > > > (Links to any articles > > referenced > > > > in > > > > > > > > > > above reply are > > listed on the > > > > right > > > > > > side, > > > > > > > > alphabetically under Labels > > > > > > > > > > and also under > > Archives by > > > > Year, > > > > > > Month) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -----Original > > Message----- > > > > > > > > > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > > > > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On > > > > > > > > Behalf Of bill 1433 > > > > > > > > > > Sent: Thursday, > > November 12, > > > > 2009 8:59 > > > > > > AM > > > > > > > > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > > > > Subject: RE: > > [AquaticLife] > > > > Re: > > > > > > > wisteria/lighting > > > > > > > > previous > > > > > > > > > > question/response > > revisited > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Yes Len, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > But its finding > > that size > > > > tube with > > > > > > more of > > > > > > > > anything that's the problem. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Bill > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > --- On Wed, > > 11/11/09, Lenny > > > > V. aka > > > > > > > GoldLenny > > > > > > > > <GoldLenny@... <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com> > > <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com> > > > > <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com>> > > > > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > From: Lenny V. > > aka > > > > GoldLenny > > > > > > <GoldLenny@... <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com> > > <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com> > > > > <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com>> > > > > > > > > > > > Subject: RE: > > > > [AquaticLife] Re: > > > > > > > > wisteria/lighting previous > > > > > > > > > > > > > question/response > > > > revisited > > > > > > > > > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > > > > > Date: > > Wednesday, > > > > November 11, > > > > > > 2009, > > > > > > > 5:22 PM > > > > > > > > Well, if you only have > > > > > > > > > > > 17W, then you > > could > > > > definitely do > > > > > > > better > > > > > > > > with the 20W, higher lumen, > > > > > > > > > > > better K > > rating bulbs > > > > that I > > > > > > > mentioned. > > > > > > > > Considering the lumen > > > > > > > > > > > ratings of > > fluorescent > > > > bulbs I've > > > > > > > looked at, > > > > > > > > your 17W bulbs might > > > > > > > > > > > only have > > 500-700 lumens > > > > where the > > > > > > BEST > > > > > > > 20W > > > > > > > > bulb (below) has > > > > > > > > > > > 1075 lumens so > > you > > > > > > > > > > > could possibly > > increase > > > > your > > > > > > lighting > > > > > > > by 50% > > > > > > > > to 100% just by > > > > > > > > > > > changing to > > that bulb. > > > > At least, > > > > > > with > > > > > > > that > > > > > > > > bulb, you'll be in the > > > > > > > > > > > low-light > > range for > > > > plants on the > > > > > > 20G > > > > > > > but > > > > > > > > the 29G will need some work. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Of course, you > > should > > > > find out > > > > > > what > > > > > > > the > > > > > > > > lumens and K ratings are on > > > > > > > > > > > the bulbs you > > have so > > > > you'll know > > > > > > if > > > > > > > you are > > > > > > > > getting a small jump or > > > > > > > > > > > a BIG jump in > > lighting > > > > just by > > > > > > changing > > > > > > > your > > > > > > > > bulbs. Check your local > > > > > > > > > > > WalMart for > > bulbs. My > > > > nearby > > > > > > WalMart > > > > > > > > SuperCenter has a really big > > > > > > > > > > > assortment of > > > > fluorescent tubes > > > > > > and > > > > > > > they > > > > > > > > were cheaper than the Home > > > > > > > > > > > Depot. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Something else > > I'm > > > > thinking about > > > > > > for > > > > > > > you is > > > > > > > > going with 18" > > > > > > > > > > > light-sticks > > on > > > > > > > > > > > each end of > > your 29G > > > > tank or front > > > > > > or > > > > > > > back > > > > > > > > (back would hide it best > > > > > > > > > > > but you decide > > your > > > > best > > > > > > aesthetics) > > > > > > > and > > > > > > > > you'd have to make a DIY > > > > > > > > > > > reflector for > > it (white > > > > poster > > > > > > board > > > > > > > and > > > > > > > > scotch tape would work) and > > > > > > > > > > > that would get > > more > > > > lighting down > > > > > > to > > > > > > > the > > > > > > > > bottom level plants in the > > > > > > > > > > > 29G. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Lenny > > Vasbinder > > > > > > > > > > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>> > > > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>>> > > > > > > > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>>>> > > > > > > > > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>> > > > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>>> > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>> > > > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>>>>> > > > > > > > > > (Links to any articles > > > > > > > > > > > referenced in > > above > > > > reply are > > > > > > listed on > > > > > > > the > > > > > > > > right side, > > > > > > > > > > > alphabetically > > under > > > > Labels and > > > > > > also > > > > > > > under > > > > > > > > Archives by Year, Month) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -----Original > > > > Message----- > > > > > > > > > > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > > > > > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] > > > > > > > > > > > On > > > > > > > > > > > Behalf Of bill > > 1433 > > > > > > > > > > > Sent: > > Wednesday, > > > > November 11, 2009 > > > > > > 3:42 > > > > > > > PM > > > > > > > > > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > > > > > Subject: RE: > > > > [AquaticLife] Re: > > > > > > > > wisteria/lighting previous > > > > > > > > > > > > > question/response > > > > revisited > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > It is what it > > is type of > > > > thing > > > > > > Len. > > > > > > > Site > > > > > > > > says one thing but stamped > > > > > > > > > > > or printed > > right on the > > > > tube is at > > > > > > 17 > > > > > > > > watts. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Bill > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > --- On Wed, > > 11/11/09, > > > > Lenny V. > > > > > > aka > > > > > > > GoldLenny > > > > > > > > <GoldLenny@... <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com> > > <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com> > > > > <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com>> > > > > > > > > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > From: > > Lenny V. aka > > > > GoldLenny > > > > > > > <GoldLenny@... <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com> > > <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com> > > > > <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com>> > > > > > > > > > > > > Subject: > > RE: > > > > [AquaticLife] > > > > > > Re: > > > > > > > > wisteria/lighting > > > > > > > > > > > previous > > > > > > > > > > > > > > question/response > > > > revisited > > > > > > > > > > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > > > > > > Date: > > Wednesday, > > > > November > > > > > > 11, > > > > > > > 2009, > > > > > > > > 2:16 PM The > > > > > > > > > > > problem might > > be this > > > > > > > > > > > > statement > > in the > > > > > > description... > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > "... > > Hoods include > > > > 8000ºK > > > > > > > bulb... > > > > > > > > ...20W, 24"..." > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > That's > > getting into > > > > the > > > > > > higher > > > > > > > > green/blue Kelvin > > > > > > > > > > > range... > > > > > > > > > > > > closer to > > the > > > > > > > > > > > > 10,000K > > actinic > > > > type bulbs... > > > > > > than > > > > > > > the > > > > > > > > 5000K to 6500K > > > > > > > > > > > "Daylight" > > bulbs > > > > > > > > > > > > that > > provide full > > > > spectrum > > > > > > > lighting. > > > > > > > > It's also only > > > > > > > > > > > a 20W bulb > > > > > > > > > > > > > > (according to the > > > > DFS site, > > > > > > > although > > > > > > > > you stated it was > > > > > > > > > > > only 17W so > > > > > > > > > > > > double > > check this) > > > > so it's > > > > > > only > > > > > > > 1WPG on > > > > > > > > the 20G and > > > > > > > > > > > only 0.69WPG > > on > > > > > > > > > > > > the 29G. > > Of course, > > > > if the > > > > > > bulb > > > > > > > puts > > > > > > > > out a LOT more > > > > > > > > > > > lumens (you > > would > > > > > > > > > > > > have to > > do more > > > > checking up > > > > > > on the > > > > > > > bulb > > > > > > > > to find this), > > > > > > > > > > > that would > > help > > > > > > > > > > > > a little > > but not > > > > much. I > > > > > > think you > > > > > > > need > > > > > > > > at least > > > > > > > > > > > 1WPG to have > > success > > > > > > > > > > > > with > > low-light > > > > plants, > > > > > > although > > > > > > > > floating plants like > > > > > > > > > > > Anacharis, > > > > > > > > > > > > Hornwort, > > Duckweed, > > > > etc., > > > > > > would be > > > > > > > up > > > > > > > > close to the > > > > > > > > > > > light and > > benefit > > > > > > > > > > > > from CO2 > > from the > > > > air and > > > > > > would do > > > > > > > OK > > > > > > > > with your > > > > > > > > > > > lighting... > > but then > > > > > > > > > > > > they > > would also > > > > block out > > > > > > the > > > > > > > lighting > > > > > > > > to the rest of > > > > > > > > > > > the tank. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I don't > > see a lot > > > > of options, > > > > > > as > > > > > > > far as > > > > > > > > T-8 bulbs are > > > > > > > > > > > concerned for > > > > > > > > > > > > this size > > fixture > > > > but I see a > > > > > > few > > > > > > > > different T-12's... > > > > > > > > > > > such as... > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > (My > > rating is: GOOD > > > > - but > > > > > > see > > > > > > > BETTER > > > > > > > > and BEST options > > > > > > > > > > > below... at > > > > > > > > > > > > least as > > far as the > > > > bulbs on > > > > > > this > > > > > > > site > > > > > > > > are concerned) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > http://www.servicelighting.com/Sylvania-22119-F20T12-DSGN50-T12-Straig > <http://www.servicelighting.com/Sylvania-22119-F20T12-DSGN50-T12-Straig> > > > > > > <http://www.servicelighting.com/Sylvania-22119-F20T12-DSGN50-T12-Straig > <http://www.servicelighting.com/Sylvania-22119-F20T12-DSGN50-T12-Straig>> > > > > > > > > > > > > > <http://www.servicelighting.com/Sylvania-22119-F20T12-DSGN50-T12-Straig > <http://www.servicelighting.com/Sylvania-22119-F20T12-DSGN50-T12-Straig> > > > > > > <http://www.servicelighting.com/Sylvania-22119-F20T12-DSGN50-T12-Straig > <http://www.servicelighting.com/Sylvania-22119-F20T12-DSGN50-T12-Straig>>> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > <http://www.servicelighting.com/Sylvania-22119-F20T12-DSGN50-T12-Straig > <http://www.servicelighting.com/Sylvania-22119-F20T12-DSGN50-T12-Straig> > > > > > > <http://www.servicelighting.com/Sylvania-22119-F20T12-DSGN50-T12-Straig > <http://www.servicelighting.com/Sylvania-22119-F20T12-DSGN50-T12-Straig>> > > > > > > > > > > > > > <http://www.servicelighting.com/Sylvania-22119-F20T12-DSGN50-T12-Straig > <http://www.servicelighting.com/Sylvania-22119-F20T12-DSGN50-T12-Straig> > > > > > > <http://www.servicelighting.com/Sylvania-22119-F20T12-DSGN50-T12-Straig > <http://www.servicelighting.com/Sylvania-22119-F20T12-DSGN50-T12-Straig>>>> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > <http://www.servicelighting.com/Sylvania-22119-F20T12-DSGN50-T12-Strai > <http://www.servicelighting.com/Sylvania-22119-F20T12-DSGN50-T12-Strai> > > > > > > <http://www.servicelighting.com/Sylvania-22119-F20T12-DSGN50-T12-Strai > <http://www.servicelighting.com/Sylvania-22119-F20T12-DSGN50-T12-Strai>> > > > > > > > > > > > > > <http://www.servicelighting.com/Sylvania-22119-F20T12-DSGN50-T12-Strai > <http://www.servicelighting.com/Sylvania-22119-F20T12-DSGN50-T12-Strai> > > > > > > <http://www.servicelighting.com/Sylvania-22119-F20T12-DSGN50-T12-Strai > <http://www.servicelighting.com/Sylvania-22119-F20T12-DSGN50-T12-Strai>>> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > <http://www.servicelighting.com/Sylvania-22119-F20T12-DSGN50-T12-Strai > <http://www.servicelighting.com/Sylvania-22119-F20T12-DSGN50-T12-Strai> > > > > > > <http://www.servicelighting.com/Sylvania-22119-F20T12-DSGN50-T12-Strai > <http://www.servicelighting.com/Sylvania-22119-F20T12-DSGN50-T12-Strai>> > > > > > > > > > > > > > <http://www.servicelighting.com/Sylvania-22119-F20T12-DSGN50-T12-Strai > <http://www.servicelighting.com/Sylvania-22119-F20T12-DSGN50-T12-Strai> > > > > > > <http://www.servicelighting.com/Sylvania-22119-F20T12-DSGN50-T12-Strai > <http://www.servicelighting.com/Sylvania-22119-F20T12-DSGN50-T12-Strai>>>> > > > > > > > > > > g> > > > > > > > > > > > > ht-Lin > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ear-Fluorescent-Light-Bulb > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Light > > Output: 880 > > > > lumens > > > > > > > > > > > > Refers to > > the > > > > literal measure > > > > > > of > > > > > > > the > > > > > > > > light-output of a > > > > > > > > > > > particular > > > > > > > > > > > > light > > bulb, > > > > measured in the > > > > > > number > > > > > > > of > > > > > > > > lumens. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Energy > > Used: 20 > > > > watts > > > > > > > > > > > > "Watts" > > is the term > > > > applied > > > > > > to > > > > > > > the > > > > > > > > amount of energy > > > > > > > > > > > required and > > used > > > > > > > > > > > > by a > > particular > > > > light bulb. > > > > > > It is > > > > > > > an > > > > > > > > international > > > > > > > > > > > system unit > > of > > > > > > > > > > > > power > > equal to one > > > > joule per > > > > > > > second. > > > > > > > > Contrary to > > > > > > > > > > > popular > > belief, the > > > > > > > > > > > > wattage > > of a bulb > > > > does not > > > > > > > directly > > > > > > > > measure the > > > > > > > > > > > brightness; > > the > > > > > > > > > > > > "lumens" > > of a light > > > > is what > > > > > > > defines the > > > > > > > > actual light > > > > > > > > > > > output. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Average > > Lifetime: > > > > 9,000 > > > > > > hours > > > > > > > > > > > > This > > refers to an > > > > average > > > > > > > lifetime > > > > > > > > rating based on > > > > > > > > > > > large > > quantities in > > > > > > > > > > > > test > > groups. This > > > > testing > > > > > > takes > > > > > > > into > > > > > > > > account usage of > > > > > > > > > > > 3 hours per > > > > > > > > > > > > start > > for > > > > fluorescent lamps > > > > > > and > > > > > > > 10 > > > > > > > > hours per start for > > > > > > > > > > > HID lamps. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Bulb > > Type: T12 > > > > > > > > > > > > The "Bulb > > Type" is > > > > typically > > > > > > a > > > > > > > > combination of the > > > > > > > > > > > style of bulb > > as > > > > > > > > > > > > well as > > the width > > > > of the > > > > > > bulb. > > > > > > > Usually, > > > > > > > > the first > > > > > > > > > > > couple letters > > will > > > > > > > > > > > > indicate > > the type; > > > > "G" would > > > > > > > indicate > > > > > > > > "Globe", "PAR" > > > > > > > > > > > would > > indicate > > > > > > > > > > > > > > "Parabolic > > > > Reflector"... The > > > > > > > numbers > > > > > > > > indicate the > > > > > > > > > > > diameter of > > the > > > > > > > > > > > > light > > bulb in > > > > eighths of an > > > > > > inch; > > > > > > > a > > > > > > > > "G40" would be a > > > > > > > > > > > "Globe" style > > > > > > > > > > > > that is > > "5 inches" > > > > in > > > > > > diameter. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Base > > Type: Medium > > > > Bi-Pin > > > > > > > > > > > > The > > "Base" of a > > > > light bulb is > > > > > > the > > > > > > > part > > > > > > > > that either > > > > > > > > > > > screws or > > snaps > > > > > > > > > > > > into a > > receptacle. > > > > Base Type > > > > > > > > terminology may indicate > > > > > > > > > > > common > > > > > > > > > > > > > > descriptive words > > > > like > > > > > > "Medium" > > > > > > > or > > > > > > > > "Candelabra", or > > > > > > > > > > > may even > > contain > > > > > > > > > > > > numeric > > codes that > > > > signify > > > > > > size > > > > > > > and > > > > > > > > variety, like > > > > > > > > > > > "E26" or > > "2GX13". > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Color > > Temperature: > > > > 5,000K > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Correlated Color > > > > Temperature > > > > > > (CCT) > > > > > > > is a > > > > > > > > specification > > > > > > > > > > > of the color > > > > > > > > > > > > > > appearance of a > > > > lamp, > > > > > > relating > > > > > > > its > > > > > > > > color to that of a > > > > > > > > > > > reference > > source > > > > > > > > > > > > heated to > > a > > > > particular > > > > > > > temperature, > > > > > > > > measured in > > > > > > > > > > > degrees Kelvin > > (K). It > > > > > > > > > > > > generally > > measures > > > > the > > > > > > "warmth" > > > > > > > or > > > > > > > > "coolness" of light > > > > > > > > > > > source > > > > > > > > > > > > > > appearance. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > CRI: 90 > > > > > > > > > > > > CRI > > refers to the > > > > "Color > > > > > > > Rendering > > > > > > > > Index" of a light > > > > > > > > > > > bulb. > > > > > > > > > > > > CRI > > measures a > > > > > > > > > > > > light > > source and > > > > grades its > > > > > > > ability to > > > > > > > > render the > > > > > > > > > > > color of > > objects > > > > > > > > > > > > > > "correctly," as > > > > compared with > > > > > > a > > > > > > > > reference source with > > > > > > > > > > > comparable > > color > > > > > > > > > > > > > > temperature. 100 is > > > > perfect > > > > > > > rendering. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Length: > > 24 inches > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > (BETTER - > > slightly > > > > higher > > > > > > lumens > > > > > > > and > > > > > > > > higher 6500K > > > > > > > > > > > rating) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > http://www.servicelighting.com/Westinghouse-36516-F20T12-FS-T12-Straig > <http://www.servicelighting.com/Westinghouse-36516-F20T12-FS-T12-Straig> > > > > > > <http://www.servicelighting.com/Westinghouse-36516-F20T12-FS-T12-Straig > <http://www.servicelighting.com/Westinghouse-36516-F20T12-FS-T12-Straig>> > > > > > > > > > > > > > <http://www.servicelighting.com/Westinghouse-36516-F20T12-FS-T12-Straig > <http://www.servicelighting.com/Westinghouse-36516-F20T12-FS-T12-Straig> > > > > > > <http://www.servicelighting.com/Westinghouse-36516-F20T12-FS-T12-Straig > <http://www.servicelighting.com/Westinghouse-36516-F20T12-FS-T12-Straig>>> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > <http://www.servicelighting.com/Westinghouse-36516-F20T12-FS-T12-Straig > <http://www.servicelighting.com/Westinghouse-36516-F20T12-FS-T12-Straig> > > > > > > <http://www.servicelighting.com/Westinghouse-36516-F20T12-FS-T12-Straig > <http://www.servicelighting.com/Westinghouse-36516-F20T12-FS-T12-Straig>> > > > > > > > > > > > > > <http://www.servicelighting.com/Westinghouse-36516-F20T12-FS-T12-Straig > <http://www.servicelighting.com/Westinghouse-36516-F20T12-FS-T12-Straig> > > > > > > <http://www.servicelighting.com/Westinghouse-36516-F20T12-FS-T12-Straig > <http://www.servicelighting.com/Westinghouse-36516-F20T12-FS-T12-Straig>>>> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > <http://www.servicelighting.com/Westinghouse-36516-F20T12-FS-T12-Strai > <http://www.servicelighting.com/Westinghouse-36516-F20T12-FS-T12-Strai> > > > > > > <http://www.servicelighting.com/Westinghouse-36516-F20T12-FS-T12-Strai > <http://www.servicelighting.com/Westinghouse-36516-F20T12-FS-T12-Strai>> > > > > > > > > > > > > > <http://www.servicelighting.com/Westinghouse-36516-F20T12-FS-T12-Strai > <http://www.servicelighting.com/Westinghouse-36516-F20T12-FS-T12-Strai> > > > > > > <http://www.servicelighting.com/Westinghouse-36516-F20T12-FS-T12-Strai > <http://www.servicelighting.com/Westinghouse-36516-F20T12-FS-T12-Strai>>> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > <http://www.servicelighting.com/Westinghouse-36516-F20T12-FS-T12-Strai > <http://www.servicelighting.com/Westinghouse-36516-F20T12-FS-T12-Strai> > > > > > > <http://www.servicelighting.com/Westinghouse-36516-F20T12-FS-T12-Strai > <http://www.servicelighting.com/Westinghouse-36516-F20T12-FS-T12-Strai>> > > > > > > > > > > > > > <http://www.servicelighting.com/Westinghouse-36516-F20T12-FS-T12-Strai > <http://www.servicelighting.com/Westinghouse-36516-F20T12-FS-T12-Strai> > > > > > > <http://www.servicelighting.com/Westinghouse-36516-F20T12-FS-T12-Strai > <http://www.servicelighting.com/Westinghouse-36516-F20T12-FS-T12-Strai>>>> > > > > > > > > > > g> > > > > > > > > > > > > ht-Lin > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ear-Fluorescent-Light-Bulb > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Light > > Output: 900 > > > > lumens > > > > > > > > > > > > Energy > > Used: 20 > > > > watts > > > > > > > > > > > > Average > > Lifetime: > > > > 10,000 > > > > > > hours > > > > > > > > > > > > Bulb > > Type: T12 > > > > > > > > > > > > Base > > Type: Medium > > > > Bi-Pin > > > > > > > > > > > > Color > > Temperature: > > > > 6,500K > > > > > > > > > > > > CRI: 90 > > > > > > > > > > > > Length: > > 24 inches > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > (BEST, of > > these > > > > three - > > > > > > around > > > > > > > 20% > > > > > > > > higher lumens and > > > > > > > > > > > good 6,500K > > > > > > > > > > > > rating, > > although it > > > > does have > > > > > > a > > > > > > > lower > > > > > > > > CRI rating.. but > > > > > > > > > > > still > > > > > > > > > > > > passing) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > http://www.servicelighting.com/Sylvania-22083-F20T12-D-T12-Straight-Li > <http://www.servicelighting.com/Sylvania-22083-F20T12-D-T12-Straight-Li> > > > > > > <http://www.servicelighting.com/Sylvania-22083-F20T12-D-T12-Straight-Li > <http://www.servicelighting.com/Sylvania-22083-F20T12-D-T12-Straight-Li>> > > > > > > > > > > > > > <http://www.servicelighting.com/Sylvania-22083-F20T12-D-T12-Straight-Li > <http://www.servicelighting.com/Sylvania-22083-F20T12-D-T12-Straight-Li> > > > > > > <http://www.servicelighting.com/Sylvania-22083-F20T12-D-T12-Straight-Li > <http://www.servicelighting.com/Sylvania-22083-F20T12-D-T12-Straight-Li>>> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > <http://www.servicelighting.com/Sylvania-22083-F20T12-D-T12-Straight-Li > <http://www.servicelighting.com/Sylvania-22083-F20T12-D-T12-Straight-Li> > > > > > > <http://www.servicelighting.com/Sylvania-22083-F20T12-D-T12-Straight-Li > <http://www.servicelighting.com/Sylvania-22083-F20T12-D-T12-Straight-Li>> > > > > > > > > > > > > > <http://www.servicelighting.com/Sylvania-22083-F20T12-D-T12-Straight-Li > <http://www.servicelighting.com/Sylvania-22083-F20T12-D-T12-Straight-Li> > > > > > > <http://www.servicelighting.com/Sylvania-22083-F20T12-D-T12-Straight-Li > <http://www.servicelighting.com/Sylvania-22083-F20T12-D-T12-Straight-Li>>>> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > <http://www.servicelighting.com/Sylvania-22083-F20T12-D-T12-Straight-L > <http://www.servicelighting.com/Sylvania-22083-F20T12-D-T12-Straight-L> > > > > > > <http://www.servicelighting.com/Sylvania-22083-F20T12-D-T12-Straight-L > <http://www.servicelighting.com/Sylvania-22083-F20T12-D-T12-Straight-L>> > > > > > > > > > > > > > <http://www.servicelighting.com/Sylvania-22083-F20T12-D-T12-Straight-L > <http://www.servicelighting.com/Sylvania-22083-F20T12-D-T12-Straight-L> > > > > > > <http://www.servicelighting.com/Sylvania-22083-F20T12-D-T12-Straight-L > <http://www.servicelighting.com/Sylvania-22083-F20T12-D-T12-Stra<br/><br/>(Message over 64 KB, truncated)

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 44491	From: erikaandnewton	Date: 11/12/2009
Subject: Re: strong odor

prior to moving the 33 gallon tank to my parents house the tank was running for about three years. i moved into my parents house in february 2009 taking 75% of the water with me and some of the contents of the gravel. when i set the 33 up @my parents house i set it up with flourite. the tank was up and receiving regular attention from me until september when i bought my house. prior to september i did water changes every 1-3 weeks. after that i only made it back over there about twice before getting the 75 and setting it up here to move my frogs to. ideally i would have done the same on the second move as i did on the first (bringing most the water and bacteria with me) however the tank smelled so bad i got rid of the water and rinsed the gravel until the water ran clear. this tank has been running like 3 weeks. the filter has only been on it a week so, no it has not been changed. I do water changes every week at this point because it is, essentially, a new tank. everything is normal in the tank except for the smell erika newark de usa --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, Amber Berglund <arberglund@...> wrote: > > How often do you do PWC's for your frogs? Also how often do you clean > that filter? > Frogs may breathe air but that doesn't mean that the filter doesn't need > cleaned, it's going to get filled up with poop just like any aquatic > creature (hey if you find a fish that doesn't poop I get first dibbs! LOL). > Usually a bad smell either means you're not cleaning your filters often > enough as well as not doing PWC's often enough, or there's something > else very wrong (health issues, etc). > Give us a little more background info on this tank so we can properly > help you :) (such as age from date of setup, how you clean the > tank/filters, and your water parameters wouldn't be a bad thing to share > either) > > Amber >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 44492	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 11/12/2009
Subject: Re: strong odor

Well unless you kept a lot of decorations from the old tank your new 75 gallon tank most likely is cycling. Is the water cloudy at all? Do you test your ammonia, nitrite and nitrates? If you haven't tested recently can you get us those numbers? Does your filter have a cartridge for you to clean/rinse out? Amber erikaandnewton wrote: > > prior to moving the 33 gallon tank to my parents house the tank was > running for about three years. i moved into my parents house in > february 2009 taking 75% of the water with me and some of the contents > of the gravel. when i set the 33 up @my parents house i set it up with > flourite. the tank was up and receiving regular attention from me > until september when i bought my house. prior to september i did water > changes every 1-3 weeks. after that i only made it back over there > about twice before getting the 75 and setting it up here to move my > frogs to. ideally i would have done the same on the second move as i > did on the first (bringing most the water and bacteria with me) > however the tank smelled so bad i got rid of the water and rinsed the > gravel until the water ran clear. > this tank has been running like 3 weeks. the filter has only been on > it a week so, no it has not been changed. I do water changes every > week at this point because it is, essentially, a new tank. everything > is normal in the tank except for the smell > > erika newark de usa > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>, Amber Berglund > <arberglund@...> wrote: > > > > How often do you do PWC's for your frogs? Also how often do you clean > > that filter? > > Frogs may breathe air but that doesn't mean that the filter doesn't > need > > cleaned, it's going to get filled up with poop just like any aquatic > > creature (hey if you find a fish that doesn't poop I get first > dibbs! LOL). > > Usually a bad smell either means you're not cleaning your filters often > > enough as well as not doing PWC's often enough, or there's something > > else very wrong (health issues, etc). > > Give us a little more background info on this tank so we can properly > > help you :) (such as age from date of setup, how you clean the > > tank/filters, and your water parameters wouldn't be a bad thing to > share > > either) > > > > Amber > > > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 44493	From: sevenspringss@wmconnect.com	Date: 11/13/2009
Subject: Re: Peacock with a clouded eye

Gail, While different than eye fungus, the condition "Eye Cloud" can occur spontaneously due to poor water conditions, it is more often brought on by one fish "hitting" another in a skirmish (even a slight one), exposing this tissue to the water column when the protective mucus coating is removed and the eye is scratched. A bacterial issue will invade which needs prompt attention, as it can lead to more serious eye fungus. The affected fish should preferably be removed to a quarantine tank, and in mild cases Acriflavin (by Kordon, or an equal substitute such as Aquarium Pharmaceutical's Liquid Fungus Cure) is the medication of choice for treating it. For more advanced cases, you would need to go with the primarily gram-negative antibiotic, Furan II -- also by A.P.I. A mild progressive salt treatment at this same time can be of additional benefit. Ray [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 44494	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 11/13/2009
Subject: 7 Over-the-Top Aquariums

http://www.womansday.com/Articles/Family-Lifestyle/Travel/7-Over-the-Top-Aqu ariums.html http://tinyurl.com/yjmb6ju \\Steve//

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 44495	From: Mike Whitfield	Date: 11/13/2009
Subject: Re: wisteria/lighting previous question/response revisited

The T4 linear bi-pin is called Ultra-Slim; it's a European or maybe Asian standard used (to my knowledge) only in cheap undercounter fixtures. It's not really standardized, the only ones I've ever seen have been manufactured by Feelux or non-name Chinese companies. They come in odd sizes as requested by individual fixture manufacturers. I don't think any of the big boys make them at all. Pressures and operating voltage and current vary wildly, so you might well find a lamp that fits in your socket but won't strike or that runs at partial output - or even one that runs dangerously hot. Make sure your length and wattage both match. Every Ultra-Slim I've seen (and that's not a lot) have used the absolute cheapest coil-and-core ballasts and either starters or trigger start, so they only run properly with an exact match. If they make it in your size, Feelux makes a Daylight model that's not too bad, 6400K and 80 CRI; mix one of those and one cool white and you've got a decent spectrum, or mix with a warm white and you've got a better spectrum and fish look better. Watch out for CRI on Cool White and Warm White though, some of them are single phosphor and have crappy spectra and color rendering (though the cool whites are still okay for plants if mixed with something else.) Efficacy (lumen output per watt consumed) is not particularly good on any of these lamps, and it's often very hard to find replacement lamps because they are not made in standardized sizes. I've actually had to replace year-old fixtures because the required lamps were only imported installed in the fixtures. Personally I avoid Ultra-Slims like the plague, even T2's are better. One caveat - I've seen some cheapo fixtures shipped with coil-and-core ballasts and necked down lamps that used T5 ends but T4 glass, but the length was per standardized T5. I'm pretty sure those were T5 ballasts designed for T5 lamps, but the ballasts were only labeled in Chinese so I never knew for sure. They too were undercounter lights and I replaced them rather than possibly burning down the building. Client's money or my liability, easy choice. LOL It's possible that you have the same thing, but I'd bet you've got a coil-and-core ballast with no usable info printed on it, so I don't know how you'd tell. T5 linear lamps are bi-pin as well; the only single pin linear flourescents are the old style instant start and some instant start HOs and VHOs. Modern lamps are all bi-pin and can be struck with instant start or rapid start ballasts, it's just how the ballast is connected to the sockets. Hope that sheds a bit of light. Mike [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 44496	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 11/13/2009
Subject: Re: Aquarium heater sedimentation?

Hmmmm.... then I'm not sure what that could be. I'm looking at the picture again right now and just to be sure we're seeing the same things, what I'm seeing in the picture is an upright glass tube section of the heater held in place by one suction cup clamp and to me, the tannish colored *stuff* starts growing around where the clamp starts and looks kind of thick downward from there but to me, it looks like it's only growing on the front half of the glass heater tube. Let me know if this is what you were trying to take a picture of or if it was the darker rust colored streaking above the clamp? If it's the rust colored stuff, I would guess at diatoms but the tannish colored stuff is unknown to me and would appear to be some kind of fungi/mold. Can you try to get some better pictures. The one you posted is kind of blurry. You might have to back your camera up a little. Many cameras, unless they have a macro mode, cannot take really close up pictures and probably have to be at least a foot away from something or it will come out blurry. Some cameras might have to be 2'-3' away. If you have a local university, you could always call their biology department and ask if you could bring a sample to them for physical and/or microscopic identification, in case it's a fungus or mold, most of which are not harmful and this could explain why you are getting this and not your parents. It could have come in on one of your plants. As far as you pH. If your tap water 48 hour baseline is only 7.1, then there is something in the tank that is raising the pH. Silica based sands should be inert but some other types of sand can cause the pH to rise, such as coral and aragonite sands, which are going to have a high calcium carbonate level. Where did you get your sand? Here's a simple article about the various sands that are commonly used in aquariums. http://www.cichlid-forum.com/articles/sand.php Unless you have a decoration or other item that could be leaching hardness into your tank, I would strongly suspect the sand but then you mentioned that you had this issue before with your gravel. If it is the sand, now you have the questions on whether to keep it or not. Since removing sand is a LOT more work than removing gravel and since your tank is planted, you might just want to go with doing more frequent PWC's (partial water changes) and maybe adding a piece of driftwood to the tank. The good news is that a slowly rising pH is not really harmful to fish as much as a dropping pH, although drastic changes in either direction (not caused by CO2 levels during photosynthesis) can be harmful. In the future, you can save some money by NOT buying the Stress-this or Slime-that type products. They simply are NOT needed and provide little or no benefit to our tanks... other than adding another chemical pollutant to the closed ecosystem. If your plants need it, the Seachem Flourish is fine to use but is not always necessary either. All I add to my tanks is a pro-rata dose of dechlor during each PWC. I use API's Tap Water Conditioner since it's more concentrated than other brands for a lower cost.. 1ml treats 10G where most other dechlors need 5ml or even 10ml for 10G. I do have a portion of cuttlebone in each of my filters for slow dosing of calcium carbonates to the tanks but that's it for me as far as additives. No salt. No stress-this or slime-that stuff. No pH up, down or around junk. Just weekly 25% PWC's, gravel vacuuming and filter cleaning. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Jade Sent: Thursday, November 12, 2009 4:51 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Aquarium heater sedimentation? Lenny: IT's actually growing completely around the heater. The Ph of my tap is 7.1, after letting it sit. A friend of mine had recommended that to me awhile back. No I'm not adding any water hardeners and in fact I removed the gravel of my tank(replaced with natural sand) which was increasing the Ph, and added in driftwood. 8.0 is the lowest it seems to go. I do not have GH or KH tests... and unfortunately at present cannot afford to buy them. Steve: My parents had an aquarium for the longest, they never had this problem... though in spite of the meticulous care of my tank... it's always there. The only things I add to my tank are Stress Coat +, Stress Zyme (Once a week), and Flourish, though this was happening long before I had live plants. It happened in my past tanks as well... maybe the heater brand could be the problem? I had the same brand every time this happened, though I doubt the brand would be problematic it's a thought. I've scoured the internet for weeks and came up empty-handed. Obviously whatever this crap is, it isn't good for the heater I wouldn't think. When I can manage to have the funds to be able to get a new heater just in case this one cracks I will try to scrape off the...whatever it is. --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@...> wrote: > > OK. From looking at the picture, it looks like this stuff is growing > just on the front side of the heater facing the light of the tank... > right? If I am seeing it correctly, then this is probably some kind > of algae since it's only growing on the lighted side of the heater. > I've never seen one that prefers only the HOT temperatures of a heater though. > > As far as your pH goes, is this pH of 8.0 in your tank or right out > your tap? I have an article on my blog called "Find Your Tap Water > Baseline" and it's a good idea for everyone to do this and know what > happens to their tap water. Testing it right out the tap will not > give accurate numbers most of the time. The 48 hour baseline is a > more accurate number but folks also need to know their right out the > tap numbers as they might have to do smaller % PWC's if their > right-out-the-tap numbers are a LOT different than their 48 hour > baseline and/or actual tank numbers. I'm guessing you're not adding anything like crushed coral, other water hardener substances, etc... > or do you possibly have a substrate that might have something in it > that is leaching hardness into your water in the tank? The 48 hour > baseline numbers will tell us more. > > Do you have GH and KH tests? That will also give us more info. API > makes a combo kit for GH and KH that matches with the Master Test Kit > and/or other individual kits. If you do, let us know the 48 hour tap > water baseline numbers and your tank numbers. > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] > On Behalf Of Jade > Sent: Wednesday, November 11, 2009 8:59 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Aquarium heater sedimentation? > > > Lenny: > (answers in parenthesis) > > How long have you had your tank set up? (About two years now) > > Do you have this "brown substance) > on the gravel, other decorations, glass, etc? (No I do not) > > Give us more details about your tank. Size, stocking, fish species, > etc.(Size - 20 gal long, stocking 9 adult guppies and 2 adolescents.) > > Give us a little info on your fish keeping skills also. (I've been > raising live-bearers for the better part of 12 years now... clarify > skills?) > > What is your pH level and why do you think it is high? Contrary to > some of the bottles of crap that some stores sell, you do NOT need a > pH of 7.0 in order to keep fish and in fact, a higher or lower pH is > often better for many species of fish. > (My PH is 8.0, according to the water tester from API (Not the sticks!!! > Vials with the drops... noted far more accurate) I am well aware you > don't need a flat ph of 7.0 and in fact some species of freshwater > fish prefer high-end PH. Guppies themselves prefer about 7.5)) > > How did you crack your heater by cleaning it? Did you drop it or something? > I can't imagine scrubbing it with a brush would break it unless it > already had a fracture or stress crack. (Negative, I didn't drop it, I > was using a semi-dull knife to try to get the brown stuff off - the > same that is on this heater, and it simply just cracked.) > ------------ > > Steve: > Thanks for the tip, I'll try to give it a go when I can get the razor. > Right now I can't afford that much less a new heater. So I think I'll > hold off just a bit until I can afford BOTH, just in case, hehe. > > ------------- > Donna: > These unfortunately don't just brush away. Sometimes small, solid > chunks will fall off, but it's rare. > > --------- > To All : Took a to give you guys some reference as to what it looks like. > The brown thing on the top left is a lily pad, just so you know. See > photo link below. > > http://i352.photobucket.com/albums/r329/Tehzedaj/Picture60.jpg > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" > <GoldLenny@> > wrote: > > > > How long have you had your tank set up? Do you have this "brown > > substance) on the gravel, other decorations, glass, etc? > > > > Give us more details about your tank. Size, stocking, fish species, etc. > > Give us a little info on your fish keeping skills also. > > > > What is your pH level and why do you think it is high? Contrary to > > some of the bottles of crap that some stores sell, you do NOT need a > > pH of 7.0 in order to keep fish and in fact, a higher or lower pH is > > often better for many species of fish. > > > > How did you crack your heater by cleaning it? Did you drop it or > something? > > I can't imagine scrubbing it with a brush would break it unless it > > already had a fracture or stress crack. > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles > > referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, > > alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] > > On Behalf Of Jade > > Sent: Sunday, November 08, 2009 9:29 PM > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > Subject: [AquaticLife] Aquarium heater sedimentation? > > > > I have a hard light brown (tanish) substance covering the tube of my > > aquarium heater... is this sediment? I was wondering if that's > > what's causing my high Ph (there's absolutely nothing else in there > > that could do it...). How do I clean it off? I've had the problem before... > > and in attempts to clean it the heater actually cracked (thankfully > > it wasn't in the tank at the time.) > > > > Any ideas/suggestions/help would be appreciated :)

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 44497	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 11/13/2009
Subject: Re: strong odor

In the future and for your current tank with issues, just slowly do PWC's, gravel vacuuming and proper filter maintenance (see my blog article if you haven't read it before), spread out over a several days to slowly get things back to normal, without disrupting the ecosystem all at once. Don't do anything drastic like bleaching or over cleaning stuff as that will also kill your good bacteria. Having no filtration will lead to this type of smell a LOT faster than a filtered tank... not so much because the filter is cleaning the water but because of the agitation provided by the flowing waters which allows for outgasing of the smell and ingasing of O2 into the water to keep it from becoming stagnant. Inadequate tank maintenance will also lead to these funky smells. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of erikaandnewton Sent: Thursday, November 12, 2009 5:07 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] strong odor so prior to moving my frogs here they were @ my parents house and the tank became slightly neglected. when i was finally able to go get them the decorations had black algae growing on them and the tank had an odor that reminded me of the mud in the bottom of the mostly stagnant lagoon behind my parents beach house (or something like marsh mud). i bleached the ornaments and rinsed the flourite really really well. a few days ago i noticed the odor is now showing up in the 75. Whats going on here? do i have to get rid of everything that was in the old tank or what? the old tank had no filtration going but on the 75, at least for now, i set up their zoo med 501. not big enough for the tank, but i don't really need much filtration any way at this point and i just set it up so the water would circulate to spread the heat. erika newark de usa

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 44498	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 11/13/2009
Subject: Re: 7 Over-the-Top Aquariums

Things that make you go Hmmmmm! I didn't know \\Steve// was such an avid reader of Women's Day magazine. Don't worry \\Steve//.... you're secret is safe with me. LOL Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Steve Szabo Sent: Friday, November 13, 2009 5:26 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] 7 Over-the-Top Aquariums http://www.womansday.com/Articles/Family-Lifestyle/Travel/7-Over-the-Top-Aqu ariums.html http://tinyurl.com/yjmb6ju \\Steve//

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 44499	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 11/13/2009
Subject: Re: 7 Over-the-Top Aquariums

But maybe not safe with the rest of the group now ;) LOL Amber Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > > Things that make you go Hmmmmm! I didn't know \\Steve// was such an avid > reader of Women's Day magazine. Don't worry \\Steve//.... you're secret is > safe with me. LOL > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right > side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On > Behalf Of Steve Szabo > Sent: Friday, November 13, 2009 5:26 AM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Subject: [AquaticLife] 7 Over-the-Top Aquariums > > http://www.womansday.com/Articles/Family-Lifestyle/Travel/7-Over-the-Top-Aqu > <http://www.womansday.com/Articles/Family-Lifestyle/Travel/7-Over-the-Top-Aqu> > ariums.html > > http://tinyurl.com/yjmb6ju <http://tinyurl.com/yjmb6ju> > > \\Steve// > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 44500	From: harry perry	Date: 11/13/2009
Subject: Re: Question about eating snails/clams and oysters

You eat the whole thing. Delicious...... Snails will take on the taste of the sauce they are prepared in. They don't have a very distinct taste. Normally a garlic butter sauce works fine. BTW if anyone is raising eels they are delicious also and good for you. Harry --- On Thu, 11/12/09, Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@...> wrote: From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@...> Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Question about eating snails To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Date: Thursday, November 12, 2009, 9:46 PM   That's why God made spices/seasonings. Almost everything would taste bad if it wasn't seasoned properly. I would imagine crawfish guts and crab guts would taste bad also if not boiled in Cajun spices or marinated in Cajun spices and then fried (for soft shell inverts). MMMMMMMMMM.. getting hungry again. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com [mailto:AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com] On Behalf Of Amber Berglund Sent: Thursday, November 12, 2009 8:23 PM To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Question about eating snails On applesnail.net it says not to eat the intestines and eggs because they taste bad, so that makes enough sense to me to not eat them ;) LOL Amber Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > > Why don't they eat the rest? > > Down here, with inverts and crustaceans, we eat the whole thing... > with boiled crawfish, we suck the heads, then pinch the tails (or with > soft shell crawfish, we eat the whole thing fried)... we eat raw > oysters in their entirety (innards and all) also when fried... and > nothings better than a fried soft shell crab po-boy, which means we're > eating all of their innards too. MMMMMMMMMM.. . I could go on and on > but I'm getting hungry now so I'm off to get some lunch. > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com > <http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com> (Links to any articles referenced in > above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels > and also under Archives by Year, Month) > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com > <mailto:AquaticLife %40yahoogroups. com> > [mailto:AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com > <mailto:AquaticLife %40yahoogroups. com>] On Behalf Of Amber Berglund > Sent: Thursday, November 12, 2009 12:03 PM > To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com <mailto:AquaticLife %40yahoogroups. com> > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Question about eating snails > > Okay back to eating snails (darn people hijacking my thread ;) LOL). > Could it be that it's safer to eat snails even if you use dechlor > because you only eat the foot of the snail and not the intestines, etc? > Just a thought, > Amber > > Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > > > > Are you sure that wasn't a DERF shirt > > http://www.zazzle. com/derf_ tshirt-235652671 296243847 > <http://www.zazzle. com/derf_ tshirt-235652671 296243847> > > <http://www.zazzle. com/derf_ tshirt-235652671 296243847 > <http://www.zazzle. com/derf_ tshirt-235652671 296243847>> and you were > > just looking in the mirror? This one even comes with your picture on > > it. ;-) > > > > Kind of like them people who have REKCUS written on their foreheads. > > ;-) > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com > <http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com> > > <http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com <http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com>> > (Links to any articles referenced in > > above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under > > Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com > > <mailto:AquaticLife %40yahoogroups. com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife %40yahoogroups. com> > > [mailto:AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com > <mailto:AquaticLife %40yahoogroups. com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife %40yahoogroups. com>] On Behalf Of Steve Szabo > > Sent: Tuesday, November 10, 2009 10:08 PM > > To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com > <mailto:AquaticLife %40yahoogroups. com> > <mailto:AquaticLife %40yahoogroups. com> > > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Question about eating snails > > > > Amber, > > > > No, I don't have to. Some of the shirts come with names already on them. > > That one happened to be Fred. He had his name embroidered right over > > his left pocket. They are hard to come by. I've only seen them at > Sallie's. > > > > \\Steve// > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com > > <mailto:AquaticLife %40yahoogroups. com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife %40yahoogroups. com> > > [mailto:AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com > <mailto:AquaticLife %40yahoogroups. com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife %40yahoogroups. com>] On Behalf Of Amber Berglund > > Sent: Tuesday, November 10, 2009 9:20 PM > > To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com > <mailto:AquaticLife %40yahoogroups. com> > <mailto:AquaticLife %40yahoogroups. com> > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Question about eating snails > > > > Actually no, but that one looks good ;) LOL Wait... you name your > shirts? > > What's your favorite shirt named right now? LOL > > > > Amber > > > > Steve Szabo wrote: > > > > > > Ws this the recipe? > > > > > > ESCARGOTS A LA FETTUCCINI > > > > > > 24 (7 1/2 oz. can) very lg. sized escargots, drained > > > 4 tbsp. butter > > > 1-2 garlic cloves, minced > > > 1/2 pt. heavy cream > > > 1/2 c. grated Parmesan cheese > > > 1 pkg. frozen peas > > > Salt and pepper > > > 1 lb. fettuccini > > > > > > Drain escargots, melt butter in heavy saucepan and sauté escargot > > > and garlic for 3 minutes. Pour in heavy cream and simmer until > > > mixture thickens slightly. Add grated cheese, peas and seasonings. > > > Cook a few minutes longer until escargots and sauce are hot. Do > > > not > overcook. > > > > > > While sauce is cooking place fettuccini in a pot of boiling > > > (salted) water. > > > Cook 3-4 minutes. Drain pasta and mix with escargots sauce until > > > pasta is well coated. > > > > > > I once had a shirt named Fred. > > > > > > \\Steve// > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > From: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com > <mailto:AquaticLife %40yahoogroups. com> > > > <mailto:AquaticLife %40yahoogroups. com> > > > <mailto:AquaticLife %40yahoogroups. com> > > > [mailto:AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com > <mailto:AquaticLife %40yahoogroups. com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife %40yahoogroups. com> > > > <mailto:AquaticLife %40yahoogroups. com>] On Behalf Of Amber > > > Berglund > > > Sent: Tuesday, November 10, 2009 5:17 PM > > > To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com > > > <mailto:AquaticLife %40yahoogroups. com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife %40yahoogroups. com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife %40yahoogroups. com> > > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Question about eating snails > > > > > > Actually if you look on applesnail.net they list recipe's for > > > eating your snails, LOL. > > > And do dead snails even have guts? LOL. > > > There are 3 drivers (for now, soon to be 4 hopefully), so they'll > > > have to narrow it down by names, so I'll have to wear a name tag > > > that says, "Hello my name is Fred" or something, LOL. > > > > > > Amber > > > > > > Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > > > > > > > > Ummmm.. you (or rather your friend) shouldn't do this. Most > > > > dechlor products EXPLICITLY advise against eating ornamental > > > > fish (and probably critters too) that are kept in waters treated > > > > with a dechlor product. I think the chemicals used in dechlors > > > > cause health problems, although I doubt that five snails would > > > > matter. I think it's more for fish farms that > > > might > > > > think about using Sodium Thiosulphate as their dechlor if they > > > > did not have a natural water source for the fish stock ponds. > > > > > > > > As far as the different taste, could it be like other meats... > > > chicken for > > > > example, where the dark meat is much different in taste and > > > > texture than white meat? > > > > > > > > Also, for your health, please do not post this on the > > > > Applesnail.net forums.. you know them folks are zealous about > > > > their snails. They might hunt you down and throw dead snail guts > > > > on you. LOL They might even > > > form a > > > > new radical group called PeTS... People for the Ethical > > > > Treatment of Snails. > > > > LOL And if they can't find you, they might go after every other > > > > delivery truck on your island. BTW... are you the only driver or > > > > is Ketchikan big enough for two FedEx trucks? LOL > > > > > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com > <http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com> > > <http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com <http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com>> > > > <http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com <http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com> > <http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com <http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com>>> > > <http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com <http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com> > <http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com <http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com>> > > > <http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com <http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com> > <http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com <http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com>>>> > > > > (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on > > > > the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under > > > > Archives by Year, > > > Month) > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > > From: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com > <mailto:AquaticLife %40yahoogroups. com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife %40yahoogroups. com> > > > <mailto:AquaticLife %40yahoogroups. com> > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife %40yahoogroups. com> > > > > [mailto:AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com > <mailto:AquaticLife %40yahoogroups. com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife %40yahoogroups. com> > > > <mailto:AquaticLife %40yahoogroups. com> > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife %40yahoogroups. com>] On Behalf Of Amber > > > > Berglund > > > > Sent: Tuesday, November 10, 2009 10:59 AM > > > > To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com > <mailto:AquaticLife %40yahoogroups. com> > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife %40yahoogroups. com> > > > <mailto:AquaticLife %40yahoogroups. com> > > > <mailto:AquaticLife %40yahoogroups. com> > > > > Subject: [AquaticLife] Question about eating snails > > > > > > > > Okay so a friend of mine was inquiring about my mystery snails > > > > for > > > eating > > > > purposes. Since I have a mass quantity of the happy little guys > > > > and > > > gals I > > > > figured I would give him all my large snails that are fully grown. > > > > He ended up with 5 and cooked them up as spaghetti. Now my > > > > question is this; why would the dark footed (purple) mystery > > > > snails taste much saltier > > > than the > > > > ones with white feet? > > > > > > > > Sorry to offend anyone at the idea of eating snails, I've had to > > > > do a survival trip in my lifetime and had to survive off of > > > > limpets, so I'm sure they taste similar to limpets when cooked > > > > up, so it doesn't really > > > offend > > > > me, LOL. > > > > Not to mention the little guys are threatening to breed me out > > > > of house and home ;) LOL. > > > > > > > > Amber > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ------------ --------- --------- ------ > > > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, > Thank You. > > ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , > > .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT > > that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the > > original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: > > old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , > > .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. > > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. > > > > If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of > > unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by clicking on > > "Edit My Membership" on the home page. > > > > Or e-mail aquaticlife- digest@yahoogrou ps.com > <mailto:aquaticlife -digest%40yahoog roups.com> > > <mailto:aquaticlife -digest%40yahoog roups.com> to receive the digest, > > which includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email > > > > Or email aquaticlife- nomail@yahoogrou ps.com > <mailto:aquaticlife -nomail%40yahoog roups.com> > > <mailto:aquaticlife -nomail%40yahoog roups.com> for the No E-Mail > > option where you will still be able to read messages on the group > > and post replies. > > > > Or email aquaticlife- normal@yahoogrou ps.com > <mailto:aquaticlife -normal%40yahoog roups.com> > > <mailto:aquaticlife -normal%40yahoog roups.com> to receive individual > > e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > ------------ --------- --------- ------ > > > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, > Thank You. > > ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , > > .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT > > that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the > > original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: > > old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , > > .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. > > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. > > > > If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of > > unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by clicking on > > "Edit My Membership" on the home page. > > > > Or e-mail aquaticlife- digest@yahoogrou ps.com > <mailto:aquaticlife -digest%40yahoog roups.com> > > <mailto:aquaticlife -digest%40yahoog roups.com> to receive the digest, > > which includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email > > > > Or email aquaticlife- nomail@yahoogrou ps.com > <mailto:aquaticlife -nomail%40yahoog roups.com> > > <mailto:aquaticlife -nomail%40yahoog roups.com> for the No E-Mail > > option where you will still be able to read messages on the group > > and post replies. > > > > Or email aquaticlife- normal@yahoogrou ps.com > <mailto:aquaticlife -normal%40yahoog roups.com> > > <mailto:aquaticlife -normal%40yahoog roups.com> to receive individual > > e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > ------------ --------- --------- ------ > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. > ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , > .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT > that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the > original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: > old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , > .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. > > If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of unsubscribing, > you can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My > Membership" on the home page. > > Or e-mail aquaticlife- digest@yahoogrou ps.com > <mailto:aquaticlife -digest%40yahoog roups.com> to receive the digest, > which includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email > > Or email aquaticlife- nomail@yahoogrou ps.com > <mailto:aquaticlife -nomail%40yahoog roups.com> for the No E-Mail option > where you will still be able to read messages on the group and post > replies. > > Or email aquaticlife- normal@yahoogrou ps.com > <mailto:aquaticlife -normal%40yahoog roups.com> to receive individual > e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links > > ------------ --------- --------- ------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the home page. Or e-mail aquaticlife- digest@yahoogrou ps.com to receive the digest, which includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email Or email aquaticlife- nomail@yahoogrou ps.com for the No E-Mail option where you will still be able to read messages on the group and post replies. Or email aquaticlife- normal@yahoogrou ps.com to receive individual e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 44501	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 11/13/2009
Subject: Re: Question about eating snails/clams and oysters

I wonder how many new members are reading these emails and thinking... "I thought I joined a fish keeping group, not a fish eating group!" LOL Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of harry perry Sent: Friday, November 13, 2009 3:50 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Question about eating snails/clams and oysters You eat the whole thing. Delicious...... Snails will take on the taste of the sauce they are prepared in. They don't have a very distinct taste. Normally a garlic butter sauce works fine. BTW if anyone is raising eels they are delicious also and good for you. Harry --- On Thu, 11/12/09, Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@...> wrote: From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@...> Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Question about eating snails To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Date: Thursday, November 12, 2009, 9:46 PM   That's why God made spices/seasonings. Almost everything would taste bad if it wasn't seasoned properly. I would imagine crawfish guts and crab guts would taste bad also if not boiled in Cajun spices or marinated in Cajun spices and then fried (for soft shell inverts). MMMMMMMMMM.. getting hungry again. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com [mailto:AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com] On Behalf Of Amber Berglund Sent: Thursday, November 12, 2009 8:23 PM To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Question about eating snails On applesnail.net it says not to eat the intestines and eggs because they taste bad, so that makes enough sense to me to not eat them ;) LOL Amber Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > > Why don't they eat the rest? > > Down here, with inverts and crustaceans, we eat the whole thing... > with boiled crawfish, we suck the heads, then pinch the tails (or with > soft shell crawfish, we eat the whole thing fried)... we eat raw > oysters in their entirety (innards and all) also when fried... and > nothings better than a fried soft shell crab po-boy, which means we're > eating all of their innards too. MMMMMMMMMM.. . I could go on and on > but I'm getting hungry now so I'm off to get some lunch. > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com > <http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com> (Links to any articles referenced in > above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels > and also under Archives by Year, Month) > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com > <mailto:AquaticLife %40yahoogroups. com> > [mailto:AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com > <mailto:AquaticLife %40yahoogroups. com>] On Behalf Of Amber Berglund > Sent: Thursday, November 12, 2009 12:03 PM > To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com <mailto:AquaticLife %40yahoogroups. > com> > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Question about eating snails > > Okay back to eating snails (darn people hijacking my thread ;) LOL). > Could it be that it's safer to eat snails even if you use dechlor > because you only eat the foot of the snail and not the intestines, etc? > Just a thought, > Amber

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 44502	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 11/13/2009
Subject: Re: Question about eating snails/clams and oysters

I was going by what applesnail.net said, which states do NOT eat the intestines/eggs of the snails, only the foot part. I figured if you're not eating their digestive system then you shouldn't have health issues from the dechlor products. But I could be wrong, just my personal guess ;) LOL Amber harry perry wrote: > > > You eat the whole thing. Delicious...... Snails will take on the taste > of the sauce they are prepared in. They don't have a very distinct > taste. Normally a garlic butter sauce works fine. > > BTW if anyone is raising eels they are delicious also and good for you. > > Harry > > --- On Thu, 11/12/09, Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@... > <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com>> wrote: > > From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@... > <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com>> > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Question about eating snails > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Date: Thursday, November 12, 2009, 9:46 PM > > > > That's why God made spices/seasonings. Almost everything would taste > bad if > > it wasn't seasoned properly. I would imagine crawfish guts and crab guts > > would taste bad also if not boiled in Cajun spices or marinated in Cajun > > spices and then fried (for soft shell inverts). MMMMMMMMMM.. getting > hungry > > again. > > Lenny Vasbinder > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com > > (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right > > side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) > > -----Original Message----- > > From: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com [mailto:AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. > com] On > > Behalf Of Amber Berglund > > Sent: Thursday, November 12, 2009 8:23 PM > > To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Question about eating snails > > On applesnail.net it says not to eat the intestines and eggs because they > > taste bad, so that makes enough sense to me to not eat them ;) LOL > > Amber > > Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > > > > > > Why don't they eat the rest? > > > > > > Down here, with inverts and crustaceans, we eat the whole thing... > > > with boiled crawfish, we suck the heads, then pinch the tails (or with > > > soft shell crawfish, we eat the whole thing fried)... we eat raw > > > oysters in their entirety (innards and all) also when fried... and > > > nothings better than a fried soft shell crab po-boy, which means we're > > > eating all of their innards too. MMMMMMMMMM.. . I could go on and on > > > but I'm getting hungry now so I'm off to get some lunch. > > > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com > > > <http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com> (Links to any articles referenced in > > > above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels > > > and also under Archives by Year, Month) > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > From: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com > > > <mailto:AquaticLife %40yahoogroups. com> > > > [mailto:AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com > > > <mailto:AquaticLife %40yahoogroups. com>] On Behalf Of Amber Berglund > > > Sent: Thursday, November 12, 2009 12:03 PM > > > To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com <mailto:AquaticLife > %40yahoogroups. com> > > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Question about eating snails > > > > > > Okay back to eating snails (darn people hijacking my thread ;) LOL). > > > Could it be that it's safer to eat snails even if you use dechlor > > > because you only eat the foot of the snail and not the intestines, etc? > > > Just a thought, > > > Amber > > > > > > Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > > > > > > > > Are you sure that wasn't a DERF shirt > > > > http://www.zazzle. com/derf_ tshirt-235652671 296243847 > > > <http://www.zazzle. com/derf_ tshirt-235652671 296243847> > > > > <http://www.zazzle. com/derf_ tshirt-235652671 296243847 > > > <http://www.zazzle. com/derf_ tshirt-235652671 296243847>> and you were > > > > just looking in the mirror? This one even comes with your picture on > > > > it. ;-) > > > > > > > > Kind of like them people who have REKCUS written on their foreheads. > > > > ;-) > > > > > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com > > > <http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com> > > > > <http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com <http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com>> > > > (Links to any articles referenced in > > > > above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under > > > > Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > > From: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife %40yahoogroups. com> > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife %40yahoogroups. com> > > > > [mailto:AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com > > > <mailto:AquaticLife %40yahoogroups. com> > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife %40yahoogroups. com>] On Behalf Of Steve Szabo > > > > Sent: Tuesday, November 10, 2009 10:08 PM > > > > To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com > > > <mailto:AquaticLife %40yahoogroups. com> > > > <mailto:AquaticLife %40yahoogroups. com> > > > > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Question about eating snails > > > > > > > > Amber, > > > > > > > > No, I don't have to. Some of the shirts come with names already on > them. > > > > That one happened to be Fred. He had his name embroidered right over > > > > his left pocket. They are hard to come by. I've only seen them at > > > Sallie's. > > > > > > > > \\Steve// > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > > From: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife %40yahoogroups. com> > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife %40yahoogroups. com> > > > > [mailto:AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com > > > <mailto:AquaticLife %40yahoogroups. com> > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife %40yahoogroups. com>] On Behalf Of Amber Berglund > > > > Sent: Tuesday, November 10, 2009 9:20 PM > > > > To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com > > > <mailto:AquaticLife %40yahoogroups. com> > > > <mailto:AquaticLife %40yahoogroups. com> > > > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Question about eating snails > > > > > > > > Actually no, but that one looks good ;) LOL Wait... you name your > > > shirts? > > > > What's your favorite shirt named right now? LOL > > > > > > > > Amber > > > > > > > > Steve Szabo wrote: > > > > > > > > > > Ws this the recipe? > > > > > > > > > > ESCARGOTS A LA FETTUCCINI > > > > > > > > > > 24 (7 1/2 oz. can) very lg. sized escargots, drained > > > > > 4 tbsp. butter > > > > > 1-2 garlic cloves, minced > > > > > 1/2 pt. heavy cream > > > > > 1/2 c. grated Parmesan cheese > > > > > 1 pkg. frozen peas > > > > > Salt and pepper > > > > > 1 lb. fettuccini > > > > > > > > > > Drain escargots, melt butter in heavy saucepan and sauté escargot > > > > > and garlic for 3 minutes. Pour in heavy cream and simmer until > > > > > mixture thickens slightly. Add grated cheese, peas and seasonings. > > > > > Cook a few minutes longer until escargots and sauce are hot. Do > > > > > not > > > overcook. > > > > > > > > > > While sauce is cooking place fettuccini in a pot of boiling > > > > > (salted) water. > > > > > Cook 3-4 minutes. Drain pasta and mix with escargots sauce until > > > > > pasta is well coated. > > > > > > > > > > I once had a shirt named Fred. > > > > > > > > > > \\Steve// > > > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > > > From: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com > > > <mailto:AquaticLife %40yahoogroups. com> > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife %40yahoogroups. com> > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife %40yahoogroups. com> > > > > > [mailto:AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com > > > <mailto:AquaticLife %40yahoogroups. com> > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife %40yahoogroups. com> > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife %40yahoogroups. com>] On Behalf Of Amber > > > > > Berglund > > > > > Sent: Tuesday, November 10, 2009 5:17 PM > > > > > To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife %40yahoogroups. com> > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife %40yahoogroups. com> > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife %40yahoogroups. com> > > > > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Question about eating snails > > > > > > > > > > Actually if you look on applesnail.net they list recipe's for > > > > > eating your snails, LOL. > > > > > And do dead snails even have guts? LOL. > > > > > There are 3 drivers (for now, soon to be 4 hopefully), so they'll > > > > > have to narrow it down by names, so I'll have to wear a name tag > > > > > that says, "Hello my name is Fred" or something, LOL. > > > > > > > > > > Amber > > > > > > > > > > Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > Ummmm.. you (or rather your friend) shouldn't do this. Most > > > > > > dechlor products EXPLICITLY advise against eating ornamental > > > > > > fish (and probably critters too) that are kept in waters treated > > > > > > with a dechlor product. I think the chemicals used in dechlors > > > > > > cause health problems, although I doubt that five snails would > > > > > > matter. I think it's more for fish farms that > > > > > might > > > > > > think about using Sodium Thiosulphate as their dechlor if they > > > > > > did not have a natural water source for the fish stock ponds. > > > > > > > > > > > > As far as the different taste, could it be like other meats... > > > > > chicken for > > > > > > example, where the dark meat is much different in taste and > > > > > > texture than white meat? > > > > > > > > > > > > Also, for your health, please do not post this on the > > > > > > Applesnail.net forums.. you know them folks are zealous about > > > > > > their snails. They might hunt you down and throw dead snail guts > > > > > > on you. LOL They might even > > > > > form a > > > > > > new radical group called PeTS... People for the Ethical > > > > > > Treatment of Snails. > > > > > > LOL And if they can't find you, they might go after every other > > > > > > delivery truck on your island. BTW... are you the only driver or > > > > > > is Ketchikan big enough for two FedEx trucks? LOL > > > > > > > > > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > > > > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com > > > <http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com> > > > > <http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com <http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com>> > > > > > <http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com <http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com> > > > <http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com <http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com>>> > > > > <http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com <http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com> > > > <http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com <http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com>> > > > > > <http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com <http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com> > > > <http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com <http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com>>>> > > > > > > (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on > > > > > > the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under > > > > > > Archives by Year, > > > > > Month) > > > > > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > > > > From: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com > > > <mailto:AquaticLife %40yahoogroups. com> > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife %40yahoogroups. com> > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife %40yahoogroups. com> > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife %40yahoogroups. com> > > > > > > [mailto:AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com > > > <mailto:AquaticLife %40yahoogroups. com> > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife %40yahoogroups. com> > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife %40yahoogroups. com> > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife %40yahoogroups. com>] On Behalf Of Amber > > > > > > Berglund > > > > > > Sent: Tuesday, November 10, 2009 10:59 AM > > > > > > To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com > > > <mailto:AquaticLife %40yahoogroups. com> > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife %40yahoogroups. com> > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife %40yahoogroups. com> > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife %40yahoogroups. com> > > > > > > Subject: [AquaticLife] Question about eating snails > > > > > > > > > > > > Okay so a friend of mine was inquiring about my mystery snails > > > > > > for > > > > > eating > > > > > > purposes. Since I have a mass quantity of the happy little guys > > > > > > and > > > > > gals I > > > > > > figured I would give him all my large snails that are fully grown. > > > > > > He ended up with 5 and cooked them up as spaghetti. Now my > > > > > > question is this; why would the dark footed (purple) mystery > > > > > > snails taste much saltier > > > > > than the > > > > > > ones with white feet? > > > > > > > > > > > > Sorry to offend anyone at the idea of eating snails, I've had to > > > > > > do a survival trip in my lifetime and had to survive off of > > > > > > limpets, so I'm sure they taste similar to limpets when cooked > > > > > > up, so it doesn't really > > > > > offend > > > > > > me, LOL. > > > > > > Not to mention the little guys are threatening to breed me out > > > > > > of house and home ;) LOL. > > > > > > > > > > > > Amber > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ------------ --------- --------- ------ > > > > > > > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, > > > Thank You. > > > > ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , > > > > .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT > > > > that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the > > > > original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: > > > > old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , > > > > .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. > > > > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. > > > > > > > > If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of > > > > unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by clicking on > > > > "Edit My Membership" on the home page. > > > > > > > > Or e-mail aquaticlife- digest@yahoogrou ps.com > > > <mailto:aquaticlife -digest%40yahoog roups.com> > > > > <mailto:aquaticlife -digest%40yahoog roups.com> to receive the > digest, > > > > which includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email > > > > > > > > Or email aquaticlife- nomail@yahoogrou ps.com > > > <mailto:aquaticlife -nomail%40yahoog roups.com> > > > > <mailto:aquaticlife -nomail%40yahoog roups.com> for the No E-Mail > > > > option where you will still be able to read messages on the group > > > > and post replies. > > > > > > > > Or email aquaticlife- normal@yahoogrou ps.com > > > <mailto:aquaticlife -normal%40yahoog roups.com> > > > > <mailto:aquaticlife -normal%40yahoog roups.com> to receive individual > > > > e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > > > ------------ --------- --------- ------ > > > > > > > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, > > > Thank You. > > > > ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , > > > > .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT > > > > that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the > > > > original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: > > > > old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , > > > > .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. > > > > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. > > > > > > > > If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of > > > > unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by clicking on > > > > "Edit My Membership" on the home page. > > > > > > > > Or e-mail aquaticlife- digest@yahoogrou ps.com > > > <mailto:aquaticlife -digest%40yahoog roups.com> > > > > <mailto:aquaticlife -digest%40yahoog roups.com> to receive the > digest, > > > > which includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email > > > > > > > > Or email aquaticlife- nomail@yahoogrou ps.com > > > <mailto:aquaticlife -nomail%40yahoog roups.com> > > > > <mailto:aquaticlife -nomail%40yahoog roups.com> for the No E-Mail > > > > option where you will still be able to read messages on the group > > > > and post replies. > > > > > > > > Or email aquaticlife- normal@yahoogrou ps.com > > > <mailto:aquaticlife -normal%40yahoog roups.com> > > > > <mailto:aquaticlife -normal%40yahoog roups.com> to receive individual > > > > e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ------------ --------- --------- ------ > > > > > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, > Thank You. > > > ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , > > > .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT > > > that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the > > > original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: > > > old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , > > > .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. > > > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. > > > > > > If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of unsubscribing, > > > you can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My > > > Membership" on the home page. > > > > > > Or e-mail aquaticlife- digest@yahoogrou ps.com > > > <mailto:aquaticlife -digest%40yahoog roups.com> to receive the digest, > > > which includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email > > > > > > Or email aquaticlife- nomail@yahoogrou ps.com > > > <mailto:aquaticlife -nomail%40yahoog roups.com> for the No E-Mail > option > > > where you will still be able to read messages on the group and post > > > replies. > > > > > > Or email aquaticlife- normal@yahoogrou ps.com > > > <mailto:aquaticlife -normal%40yahoog roups.com> to receive individual > > > e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > > > ------------ --------- --------- ------ > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. > > ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> > > PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to > > the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the > SUBJECT > > LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- > > <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. > > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. > > If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of unsubscribing, you > > can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the > > home page. > > Or e-mail aquaticlife- digest@yahoogrou ps.com to receive the digest, > which > > includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email > > Or email aquaticlife- nomail@yahoogrou ps.com for the No E-Mail option > where > > you will still be able to read messages on the group and post replies. > > Or email aquaticlife- normal@yahoogrou ps.com to receive individual > > e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 44503	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 11/13/2009
Subject: Re: Question about eating snails/clams and oysters

Now I need a recipe for guppy's, LOL. (just kidding, but man I have enough of them to make at least one meal out of them). You know you have too many guppy's when you're trying to pick pest (pond) snails out of the tank and you accidentally end up grabbing a guppy or 2 at the same time, and boy they don't like it ;) LOL. Amber Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > > I wonder how many new members are reading these emails and thinking... "I > thought I joined a fish keeping group, not a fish eating group!" LOL > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right > side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) > > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On > Behalf Of harry perry > Sent: Friday, November 13, 2009 3:50 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Question about eating snails/clams and oysters > > You eat the whole thing. Delicious...... Snails will take on the taste of > the sauce they are prepared in. They don't have a very distinct taste. > Normally a garlic butter sauce works fine. > > BTW if anyone is raising eels they are delicious also and good for you. > > Harry > > --- On Thu, 11/12/09, Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@... > <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com>> wrote: > > From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@... > <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com>> > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Question about eating snails > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Date: Thursday, November 12, 2009, 9:46 PM > > > > That's why God made spices/seasonings. Almost everything would taste > bad if > > it wasn't seasoned properly. I would imagine crawfish guts and crab guts > > would taste bad also if not boiled in Cajun spices or marinated in Cajun > > spices and then fried (for soft shell inverts). MMMMMMMMMM.. getting > hungry > > again. > > Lenny Vasbinder > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com > > (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right > > side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) > > -----Original Message----- > > From: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com [mailto:AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com] > On > > Behalf Of Amber Berglund > > Sent: Thursday, November 12, 2009 8:23 PM > > To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Question about eating snails > > On applesnail.net it says not to eat the intestines and eggs because they > > taste bad, so that makes enough sense to me to not eat them ;) LOL > > Amber > > Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > > > > > > Why don't they eat the rest? > > > > > > Down here, with inverts and crustaceans, we eat the whole thing... > > > with boiled crawfish, we suck the heads, then pinch the tails (or with > > > soft shell crawfish, we eat the whole thing fried)... we eat raw > > > oysters in their entirety (innards and all) also when fried... and > > > nothings better than a fried soft shell crab po-boy, which means we're > > > eating all of their innards too. MMMMMMMMMM.. . I could go on and on > > > but I'm getting hungry now so I'm off to get some lunch. > > > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com > > > <http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com> (Links to any articles referenced in > > > above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels > > > and also under Archives by Year, Month) > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > From: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com > > > <mailto:AquaticLife %40yahoogroups. com> > > > [mailto:AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com > > > <mailto:AquaticLife %40yahoogroups. com>] On Behalf Of Amber Berglund > > > Sent: Thursday, November 12, 2009 12:03 PM > > > To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com <mailto:AquaticLife %40yahoogroups. > > com> > > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Question about eating snails > > > > > > Okay back to eating snails (darn people hijacking my thread ;) LOL). > > > Could it be that it's safer to eat snails even if you use dechlor > > > because you only eat the foot of the snail and not the intestines, etc? > > > Just a thought, > > > Amber > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 44504	From: harry perry	Date: 11/13/2009
Subject: Re: Question about eating snails/clams and oysters/Amber

When you get snails in the restaurant you get the whole snail. Of course they weren't in dechlorinator. But if the snail survived the declor. how bad could it be and also, where did the snails in the restaurant come from?. A lot more than dechlorinator is in the water that oysters and clams come from. Harry --- On Fri, 11/13/09, Amber Berglund <arberglund@...> wrote: From: Amber Berglund <arberglund@...> Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Question about eating snails/clams and oysters To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Date: Friday, November 13, 2009, 6:37 PM   I was going by what applesnail.net said, which states do NOT eat the intestines/eggs of the snails, only the foot part. I figured if you're not eating their digestive system then you shouldn't have health issues from the dechlor products. But I could be wrong, just my personal guess ;) LOL Amber harry perry wrote: > > > You eat the whole thing. Delicious... ... Snails will take on the taste > of the sauce they are prepared in. They don't have a very distinct > taste. Normally a garlic butter sauce works fine. > > BTW if anyone is raising eels they are delicious also and good for you. > > Harry > > --- On Thu, 11/12/09, Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@gmail. com > <mailto:GoldLenny% 40gmail.com> > wrote: > > From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@gmail. com > <mailto:GoldLenny% 40gmail.com> > > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Question about eating snails > To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com <mailto:AquaticLife %40yahoogroups. com> > Date: Thursday, November 12, 2009, 9:46 PM > > > > That's why God made spices/seasonings. Almost everything would taste > bad if > > it wasn't seasoned properly. I would imagine crawfish guts and crab guts > > would taste bad also if not boiled in Cajun spices or marinated in Cajun > > spices and then fried (for soft shell inverts). MMMMMMMMMM.. getting > hungry > > again. > > Lenny Vasbinder > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com > > (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right > > side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) > > -----Original Message----- > > From: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com [mailto:AquaticLife @ yahoogroups. > com] On > > Behalf Of Amber Berglund > > Sent: Thursday, November 12, 2009 8:23 PM > > To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Question about eating snails > > On applesnail.net it says not to eat the intestines and eggs because they > > taste bad, so that makes enough sense to me to not eat them ;) LOL > > Amber > > Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > > > > > > Why don't they eat the rest? > > > > > > Down here, with inverts and crustaceans, we eat the whole thing... > > > with boiled crawfish, we suck the heads, then pinch the tails (or with > > > soft shell crawfish, we eat the whole thing fried)... we eat raw > > > oysters in their entirety (innards and all) also when fried... and > > > nothings better than a fried soft shell crab po-boy, which means we're > > > eating all of their innards too. MMMMMMMMMM.. . I could go on and on > > > but I'm getting hungry now so I'm off to get some lunch. > > > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com > > > <http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com> (Links to any articles referenced in > > > above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels > > > and also under Archives by Year, Month) > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > From: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com > > > <mailto:AquaticLife %40yahoogroups. com> > > > [mailto:AquaticLife @ yahoogroups. com > > > <mailto:AquaticLife %40yahoogroups. com>] On Behalf Of Amber Berglund > > > Sent: Thursday, November 12, 2009 12:03 PM > > > To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com <mailto:AquaticLife > %40yahoogroups. com> > > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Question about eating snails > > > > > > Okay back to eating snails (darn people hijacking my thread ;) LOL). > > > Could it be that it's safer to eat snails even if you use dechlor > > > because you only eat the foot of the snail and not the intestines, etc? > > > Just a thought, > > > Amber > > > > > > Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > > > > > > > > Are you sure that wasn't a DERF shirt > > > > http://www.zazzle. com/derf_ tshirt-235652671 296243847 > > > <http://www.zazzle. com/derf_ tshirt-235652671 296243847> > > > > <http://www.zazzle. com/derf_ tshirt-235652671 296243847 > > > <http://www.zazzle. com/derf_ tshirt-235652671 296243847>> and you were > > > > just looking in the mirror? This one even comes with your picture on > > > > it. ;-) > > > > > > > > Kind of like them people who have REKCUS written on their foreheads. > > > > ;-) > > > > > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com > > > <http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com> > > > > <http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com <http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com>> > > > (Links to any articles referenced in > > > > above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under > > > > Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > > From: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife %40yahoogroups. com> > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife %40yahoogroups. com> > > > > [mailto:AquaticLife @ yahoogroups. com > > > <mailto:AquaticLife %40yahoogroups. com> > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife %40yahoogroups. com>] On Behalf Of Steve Szabo > > > > Sent: Tuesday, November 10, 2009 10:08 PM > > > > To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com > > > <mailto:AquaticLife %40yahoogroups. com> > > > <mailto:AquaticLife %40yahoogroups. com> > > > > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Question about eating snails > > > > > > > > Amber, > > > > > > > > No, I don't have to. Some of the shirts come with names already on > them. > > > > That one happened to be Fred. He had his name embroidered right over > > > > his left pocket. They are hard to come by. I've only seen them at > > > Sallie's. > > > > > > > > \\Steve// > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > > From: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife %40yahoogroups. com> > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife %40yahoogroups. com> > > > > [mailto:AquaticLife @ yahoogroups. com > > > <mailto:AquaticLife %40yahoogroups. com> > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife %40yahoogroups. com>] On Behalf Of Amber Berglund > > > > Sent: Tuesday, November 10, 2009 9:20 PM > > > > To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com > > > <mailto:AquaticLife %40yahoogroups. com> > > > <mailto:AquaticLife %40yahoogroups. com> > > > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Question about eating snails > > > > > > > > Actually no, but that one looks good ;) LOL Wait... you name your > > > shirts? > > > > What's your favorite shirt named right now? LOL > > > > > > > > Amber > > > > > > > > Steve Szabo wrote: > > > > > > > > > > Ws this the recipe? > > > > > > > > > > ESCARGOTS A LA FETTUCCINI > > > > > > > > > > 24 (7 1/2 oz. can) very lg. sized escargots, drained > > > > > 4 tbsp. butter > > > > > 1-2 garlic cloves, minced > > > > > 1/2 pt. heavy cream > > > > > 1/2 c. grated Parmesan cheese > > > > > 1 pkg. frozen peas > > > > > Salt and pepper > > > > > 1 lb. fettuccini > > > > > > > > > > Drain escargots, melt butter in heavy saucepan and sauté escargot > > > > > and garlic for 3 minutes. Pour in heavy cream and simmer until > > > > > mixture thickens slightly. Add grated cheese, peas and seasonings. > > > > > Cook a few minutes longer until escargots and sauce are hot. Do > > > > > not > > > overcook. > > > > > > > > > > While sauce is cooking place fettuccini in a pot of boiling > > > > > (salted) water. > > > > > Cook 3-4 minutes. Drain pasta and mix with escargots sauce until > > > > > pasta is well coated. > > > > > > > > > > I once had a shirt named Fred. > > > > > > > > > > \\Steve// > > > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > > > From: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com > > > <mailto:AquaticLife %40yahoogroups. com> > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife %40yahoogroups. com> > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife %40yahoogroups. com> > > > > > [mailto:AquaticLife @ yahoogroups. com > > > <mailto:AquaticLife %40yahoogroups. com> > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife %40yahoogroups. com> > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife %40yahoogroups. com>] On Behalf Of Amber > > > > > Berglund > > > > > Sent: Tuesday, November 10, 2009 5:17 PM > > > > > To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife %40yahoogroups. com> > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife %40yahoogroups. com> > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife %40yahoogroups. com> > > > > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Question about eating snails > > > > > > > > > > Actually if you look on applesnail.net they list recipe's for > > > > > eating your snails, LOL. > > > > > And do dead snails even have guts? LOL. > > > > > There are 3 drivers (for now, soon to be 4 hopefully), so they'll > > > > > have to narrow it down by names, so I'll have to wear a name tag > > > > > that says, "Hello my name is Fred" or something, LOL. > > > > > > > > > > Amber > > > > > > > > > > Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > Ummmm.. you (or rather your friend) shouldn't do this. Most > > > > > > dechlor products EXPLICITLY advise against eating ornamental > > > > > > fish (and probably critters too) that are kept in waters treated > > > > > > with a dechlor product. I think the chemicals used in dechlors > > > > > > cause health problems, although I doubt that five snails would > > > > > > matter. I think it's more for fish farms that > > > > > might > > > > > > think about using Sodium Thiosulphate as their dechlor if they > > > > > > did not have a natural water source for the fish stock ponds. > > > > > > > > > > > > As far as the different taste, could it be like other meats... > > > > > chicken for > > > > > > example, where the dark meat is much different in taste and > > > > > > texture than white meat? > > > > > > > > > > > > Also, for your health, please do not post this on the > > > > > > Applesnail.net forums.. you know them folks are zealous about > > > > > > their snails. They might hunt you down and throw dead snail guts > > > > > > on you. LOL They might even > > > > > form a > > > > > > new radical group called PeTS... People for the Ethical > > > > > > Treatment of Snails. > > > > > > LOL And if they can't find you, they might go after every other > > > > > > delivery truck on your island. BTW... are you the only driver or > > > > > > is Ketchikan big enough for two FedEx trucks? LOL > > > > > > > > > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > > > > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com > > > <http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com> > > > > <http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com <http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com>> > > > > > <http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com <http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com> > > > <http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com <http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com>>> > > > > <http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com <http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com> > > > <http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com <http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com>> > > > > > <http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com <http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com> > > > <http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com <http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com>>>> > > > > > > (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on > > > > > > the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under > > > > > > Archives by Year, > > > > > Month) > > > > > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > > > > From: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com > > > <mailto:AquaticLife %40yahoogroups. com> > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife %40yahoogroups. com> > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife %40yahoogroups. com> > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife %40yahoogroups. com> > > > > > > [mailto:AquaticLife @ yahoogroups. com > > > <mailto:AquaticLife %40yahoogroups. com> > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife %40yahoogroups. com> > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife %40yahoogroups. com> > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife %40yahoogroups. com>] On Behalf Of Amber > > > > > > Berglund > > > > > > Sent: Tuesday, November 10, 2009 10:59 AM > > > > > > To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com > > > <mailto:AquaticLife %40yahoogroups. com> > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife %40yahoogroups. com> > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife %40yahoogroups. com> > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife %40yahoogroups. com> > > > > > > Subject: [AquaticLife] Question about eating snails > > > > > > > > > > > > Okay so a friend of mine was inquiring about my mystery snails > > > > > > for > > > > > eating > > > > > > purposes. Since I have a mass quantity of the happy little guys > > > > > > and > > > > > gals I > > > > > > figured I would give him all my large snails that are fully grown. > > > > > > He ended up with 5 and cooked them up as spaghetti. Now my > > > > > > question is this; why would the dark footed (purple) mystery > > > > > > snails taste much saltier > > > > > than the > > > > > > ones with white feet? > > > > > > > > > > > > Sorry to offend anyone at the idea of eating snails, I've had to > > > > > > do a survival trip in my lifetime and had to survive off of > > > > > > limpets, so I'm sure they taste similar to limpets when cooked > > > > > > up, so it doesn't really > > > > > offend > > > > > > me, LOL. > > > > > > Not to mention the little guys are threatening to breed me out > > > > > > of house and home ;) LOL. > > > > > > > > > > > > Amber > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ------------ --------- --------- ------ > > > > > > > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, > > > Thank You. > > > > ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , > > > > .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT > > > > that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the > > > > original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: > > > > old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , > > > > .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. > > > > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. > > > > > > > > If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of > > > > unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by clicking on > > > > "Edit My Membership" on the home page. > > > > > > > > Or e-mail aquaticlife- digest@yahoogrou ps.com > > > <mailto:aquaticlife -digest%40yahoog roups.com> > > > > <mailto:aquaticlife -digest%40yahoog roups.com> to receive the > digest, > > > > which includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email > > > > > > > > Or email aquaticlife- nomail@yahoogrou ps.com > > > <mailto:aquaticlife -nomail%40yahoog roups.com> > > > > <mailto:aquaticlife -nomail%40yahoog roups.com> for the No E-Mail > > > > option where you will still be able to read messages on the group > > > > and post replies. > > > > > > > > Or email aquaticlife- normal@yahoogrou ps.com > > > <mailto:aquaticlife -normal%40yahoog roups.com> > > > > <mailto:aquaticlife -normal%40yahoog roups.com> to receive individual > > > > e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > > > ------------ --------- --------- ------ > > > > > > > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, > > > Thank You. > > > > ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , > > > > .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT > > > > that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the > > > > original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: > > > > old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , > > > > .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. > > > > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. > > > > > > > > If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of > > > > unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by clicking on > > > > "Edit My Membership" on the home page. > > > > > > > > Or e-mail aquaticlife- digest@yahoogrou ps.com > > > <mailto:aquaticlife -digest%40yahoog roups.com> > > > > <mailto:aquaticlife -digest%40yahoog roups.com> to receive the > digest, > > > > which includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email > > > > > > > > Or email aquaticlife- nomail@yahoogrou ps.com > > > <mailto:aquaticlife -nomail%40yahoog roups.com> > > > > <mailto:aquaticlife -nomail%40yahoog roups.com> for the No E-Mail > > > > option where you will still be able to read messages on the group > > > > and post replies. > > > > > > > > Or email aquaticlife- normal@yahoogrou ps.com > > > <mailto:aquaticlife -normal%40yahoog roups.com> > > > > <mailto:aquaticlife -normal%40yahoog roups.com> to receive individual > > > > e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ------------ --------- --------- ------ > > > > > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, > Thank You. > > > ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , > > > .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT > > > that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the > > > original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: > > > old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , > > > .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. > > > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. > > > > > > If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of unsubscribing, > > > you can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My > > > Membership" on the home page. > > > > > > Or e-mail aquaticlife- digest@yahoogrou ps.com > > > <mailto:aquaticlife -digest%40yahoog roups.com> to receive the digest, > > > which includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email > > > > > > Or email aquaticlife- nomail@yahoogrou ps.com > > > <mailto:aquaticlife -nomail%40yahoog roups.com> for the No E-Mail > option > > > where you will still be able to read messages on the group and post > > > replies. > > > > > > Or email aquaticlife- normal@yahoogrou ps.com > > > <mailto:aquaticlife -normal%40yahoog roups.com> to receive individual > > > e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > > > ------------ --------- --------- ------ > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. > > ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> > > PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to > > the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the > SUBJECT > > LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- > > <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. > > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. > > If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of unsubscribing, you > > can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the > > home page. > > Or e-mail aquaticlife- digest@yahoogrou ps.com to receive the digest, > which > > includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email > > Or email aquaticlife- nomail@yahoogrou ps.com for the No E-Mail option > where > > you will still be able to read messages on the group and post replies. > > Or email aquaticlife- normal@yahoogrou ps.com to receive individual > > e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 44505	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 11/13/2009
Subject: Re: Question about eating snails/clams and oysters/Amber

Hey tell that to Lenny, he's the one that said I can't eat my snails ;) LOL. It actually does state on the API stress coat bottle to not use it on fish that will be eaten, ornamental fish only, but it doesn't say anything about other aquatic creatures, it only says "fish". Amber harry perry wrote: > > > When you get snails in the restaurant you get the whole snail. Of > course they weren't in dechlorinator. But if the snail survived the > declor. how bad could it be and also, where did the snails in the > restaurant come from?. > > A lot more than dechlorinator is in the water that oysters and clams > come from. > > Harry > > --- On Fri, 11/13/09, Amber Berglund <arberglund@... > <mailto:arberglund%40gmail.com>> wrote: > > From: Amber Berglund <arberglund@... > <mailto:arberglund%40gmail.com>> > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Question about eating snails/clams and oysters > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Date: Friday, November 13, 2009, 6:37 PM > > > > I was going by what applesnail.net said, which states do NOT eat the > > intestines/eggs of the snails, only the foot part. I figured if you're > > not eating their digestive system then you shouldn't have health issues > > from the dechlor products. But I could be wrong, just my personal guess > > ;) LOL > > Amber > > harry perry wrote: > > > > > > > > > You eat the whole thing. Delicious... ... Snails will take on the taste > > > of the sauce they are prepared in. They don't have a very distinct > > > taste. Normally a garlic butter sauce works fine. > > > > > > BTW if anyone is raising eels they are delicious also and good for you. > > > > > > Harry > > > > > > --- On Thu, 11/12/09, Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@gmail. com > > > <mailto:GoldLenny% 40gmail.com> > wrote: > > > > > > From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@gmail. com > > > <mailto:GoldLenny% 40gmail.com> > > > > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Question about eating snails > > > To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com <mailto:AquaticLife > %40yahoogroups. com> > > > Date: Thursday, November 12, 2009, 9:46 PM > > > > > > > > > > > > That's why God made spices/seasonings. Almost everything would taste > > > bad if > > > > > > it wasn't seasoned properly. I would imagine crawfish guts and crab guts > > > > > > would taste bad also if not boiled in Cajun spices or marinated in Cajun > > > > > > spices and then fried (for soft shell inverts). MMMMMMMMMM.. getting > > > hungry > > > > > > again. > > > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > > > > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com > > > > > > (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right > > > > > > side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, > Month) > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > > > > From: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com [mailto:AquaticLife @ yahoogroups. > > > com] On > > > > > > Behalf Of Amber Berglund > > > > > > Sent: Thursday, November 12, 2009 8:23 PM > > > > > > To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com > > > > > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Question about eating snails > > > > > > On applesnail.net it says not to eat the intestines and eggs because > they > > > > > > taste bad, so that makes enough sense to me to not eat them ;) LOL > > > > > > Amber > > > > > > Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Why don't they eat the rest? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Down here, with inverts and crustaceans, we eat the whole thing... > > > > > > > with boiled crawfish, we suck the heads, then pinch the tails (or with > > > > > > > soft shell crawfish, we eat the whole thing fried)... we eat raw > > > > > > > oysters in their entirety (innards and all) also when fried... and > > > > > > > nothings better than a fried soft shell crab po-boy, which means we're > > > > > > > eating all of their innards too. MMMMMMMMMM.. . I could go on and on > > > > > > > but I'm getting hungry now so I'm off to get some lunch. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > > > > > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com > > > > > > > <http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com> (Links to any articles referenced in > > > > > > > above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels > > > > > > > and also under Archives by Year, Month) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > > > > > From: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com > > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife %40yahoogroups. com> > > > > > > > [mailto:AquaticLife @ yahoogroups. com > > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife %40yahoogroups. com>] On Behalf Of Amber Berglund > > > > > > > Sent: Thursday, November 12, 2009 12:03 PM > > > > > > > To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com <mailto:AquaticLife > > > %40yahoogroups. com> > > > > > > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Question about eating snails > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Okay back to eating snails (darn people hijacking my thread ;) LOL). > > > > > > > Could it be that it's safer to eat snails even if you use dechlor > > > > > > > because you only eat the foot of the snail and not the intestines, > etc? > > > > > > > Just a thought, > > > > > > > Amber > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Are you sure that wasn't a DERF shirt > > > > > > > > http://www.zazzle. com/derf_ tshirt-235652671 296243847 > > > > > > > <http://www.zazzle. com/derf_ tshirt-235652671 296243847> > > > > > > > > <http://www.zazzle. com/derf_ tshirt-235652671 296243847 > > > > > > > <http://www.zazzle. com/derf_ tshirt-235652671 296243847>> and you > were > > > > > > > > just looking in the mirror? This one even comes with your picture on > > > > > > > > it. ;-) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Kind of like them people who have REKCUS written on their foreheads. > > > > > > > > ;-) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > > > > > > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com > > > > > > > <http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com> > > > > > > > > <http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com <http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com>> > > > > > > > (Links to any articles referenced in > > > > > > > > above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under > > > > > > > > Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > > > > > > From: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com > > > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife %40yahoogroups. com> > > > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife %40yahoogroups. com> > > > > > > > > [mailto:AquaticLife @ yahoogroups. com > > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife %40yahoogroups. com> > > > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife %40yahoogroups. com>] On Behalf Of Steve Szabo > > > > > > > > Sent: Tuesday, November 10, 2009 10:08 PM > > > > > > > > To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com > > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife %40yahoogroups. com> > > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife %40yahoogroups. com> > > > > > > > > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Question about eating snails > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Amber, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > No, I don't have to. Some of the shirts come with names already on > > > them. > > > > > > > > That one happened to be Fred. He had his name embroidered right over > > > > > > > > his left pocket. They are hard to come by. I've only seen them at > > > > > > > Sallie's. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > \\Steve// > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > > > > > > From: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com > > > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife %40yahoogroups. com> > > > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife %40yahoogroups. com> > > > > > > > > [mailto:AquaticLife @ yahoogroups. com > > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife %40yahoogroups. com> > > > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife %40yahoogroups. com>] On Behalf Of Amber > Berglund > > > > > > > > Sent: Tuesday, November 10, 2009 9:20 PM > > > > > > > > To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com > > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife %40yahoogroups. com> > > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife %40yahoogroups. com> > > > > > > > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Question about eating snails > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Actually no, but that one looks good ;) LOL Wait... you name your > > > > > > > shirts? > > > > > > > > What's your favorite shirt named right now? LOL > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Amber > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Steve Szabo wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Ws this the recipe? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ESCARGOTS A LA FETTUCCINI > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 24 (7 1/2 oz. can) very lg. sized escargots, drained > > > > > > > > > 4 tbsp. butter > > > > > > > > > 1-2 garlic cloves, minced > > > > > > > > > 1/2 pt. heavy cream > > > > > > > > > 1/2 c. grated Parmesan cheese > > > > > > > > > 1 pkg. frozen peas > > > > > > > > > Salt and pepper > > > > > > > > > 1 lb. fettuccini > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Drain escargots, melt butter in heavy saucepan and sauté escargot > > > > > > > > > and garlic for 3 minutes. Pour in heavy cream and simmer until > > > > > > > > > mixture thickens slightly. Add grated cheese, peas and seasonings. > > > > > > > > > Cook a few minutes longer until escargots and sauce are hot. Do > > > > > > > > > not > > > > > > > overcook. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > While sauce is cooking place fettuccini in a pot of boiling > > > > > > > > > (salted) water. > > > > > > > > > Cook 3-4 minutes. Drain pasta and mix with escargots sauce until > > > > > > > > > pasta is well coated. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I once had a shirt named Fred. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > \\Steve// > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > > > > > > > From: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com > > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife %40yahoogroups. com> > > > > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife %40yahoogroups. com> > > > > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife %40yahoogroups. com> > > > > > > > > > [mailto:AquaticLife @ yahoogroups. com > > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife %40yahoogroups. com> > > > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife %40yahoogroups. com> > > > > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife %40yahoogroups. com>] On Behalf Of Amber > > > > > > > > > Berglund > > > > > > > > > Sent: Tuesday, November 10, 2009 5:17 PM > > > > > > > > > To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com > > > > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife %40yahoogroups. com> > > > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife %40yahoogroups. com> > > > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife %40yahoogroups. com> > > > > > > > > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Question about eating snails > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Actually if you look on applesnail.net they list recipe's for > > > > > > > > > eating your snails, LOL. > > > > > > > > > And do dead snails even have guts? LOL. > > > > > > > > > There are 3 drivers (for now, soon to be 4 hopefully), so they'll > > > > > > > > > have to narrow it down by names, so I'll have to wear a name tag > > > > > > > > > that says, "Hello my name is Fred" or something, LOL. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Amber > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Ummmm.. you (or rather your friend) shouldn't do this. Most > > > > > > > > > > dechlor products EXPLICITLY advise against eating ornamental > > > > > > > > > > fish (and probably critters too) that are kept in waters treated > > > > > > > > > > with a dechlor product. I think the chemicals used in dechlors > > > > > > > > > > cause health problems, although I doubt that five snails would > > > > > > > > > > matter. I think it's more for fish farms that > > > > > > > > > might > > > > > > > > > > think about using Sodium Thiosulphate as their dechlor if they > > > > > > > > > > did not have a natural water source for the fish stock ponds. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > As far as the different taste, could it be like other meats... > > > > > > > > > chicken for > > > > > > > > > > example, where the dark meat is much different in taste and > > > > > > > > > > texture than white meat? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Also, for your health, please do not post this on the > > > > > > > > > > Applesnail.net forums.. you know them folks are zealous about > > > > > > > > > > their snails. They might hunt you down and throw dead snail guts > > > > > > > > > > on you. LOL They might even > > > > > > > > > form a > > > > > > > > > > new radical group called PeTS... People for the Ethical > > > > > > > > > > Treatment of Snails. > > > > > > > > > > LOL And if they can't find you, they might go after every other > > > > > > > > > > delivery truck on your island. BTW... are you the only driver or > > > > > > > > > > is Ketchikan big enough for two FedEx trucks? LOL > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > > > > > > > > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com > > > > > > > <http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com> > > > > > > > > <http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com <http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com>> > > > > > > > > > <http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com <http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com> > > > > > > > <http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com <http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com>>> > > > > > > > > <http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com <http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com> > > > > > > > <http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com <http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com>> > > > > > > > > > <http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com <http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com> > > > > > > > <http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com <http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com>>>> > > > > > > > > > > (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on > > > > > > > > > > the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under > > > > > > > > > > Archives by Year, > > > > > > > > > Month) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > > > > > > > > From: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com > > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife %40yahoogroups. com> > > > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife %40yahoogroups. com> > > > > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife %40yahoogroups. com> > > > > > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife %40yahoogroups. com> > > > > > > > > > > [mailto:AquaticLife @ yahoogroups. com > > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife %40yahoogroups. com> > > > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife %40yahoogroups. com> > > > > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife %40yahoogroups. com> > > > > > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife %40yahoogroups. com>] On Behalf Of Amber > > > > > > > > > > Berglund > > > > > > > > > > Sent: Tuesday, November 10, 2009 10:59 AM > > > > > > > > > > To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com > > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife %40yahoogroups. com> > > > > > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife %40yahoogroups. com> > > > > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife %40yahoogroups. com> > > > > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife %40yahoogroups. com> > > > > > > > > > > Subject: [AquaticLife] Question about eating snails > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Okay so a friend of mine was inquiring about my mystery snails > > > > > > > > > > for > > > > > > > > > eating > > > > > > > > > > purposes. Since I have a mass quantity of the happy little guys > > > > > > > > > > and > > > > > > > > > gals I > > > > > > > > > > figured I would give him all my large snails that are fully > grown. > > > > > > > > > > He ended up with 5 and cooked them up as spaghetti. Now my > > > > > > > > > > question is this; why would the dark footed (purple) mystery > > > > > > > > > > snails taste much saltier > > > > > > > > > than the > > > > > > > > > > ones with white feet? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Sorry to offend anyone at the idea of eating snails, I've had to > > > > > > > > > > do a survival trip in my lifetime and had to survive off of > > > > > > > > > > limpets, so I'm sure they taste similar to limpets when cooked > > > > > > > > > > up, so it doesn't really > > > > > > > > > offend > > > > > > > > > > me, LOL. > > > > > > > > > > Not to mention the little guys are threatening to breed me out > > > > > > > > > > of house and home ;) LOL. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Amber > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ------------ --------- --------- ------ > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, > > > > > > > Thank You. > > > > > > > > ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> > ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , > > > > > > > > .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE > all TEXT > > > > > > > > that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the > > > > > > > > original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject > (was re: > > > > > > > > old subject)" <- > <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , > > > > > > > > .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. > > > > > > > > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of > > > > > > > > unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by clicking on > > > > > > > > "Edit My Membership" on the home page. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Or e-mail aquaticlife- digest@yahoogrou ps.com > > > > > > > <mailto:aquaticlife -digest%40yahoog roups.com> > > > > > > > > <mailto:aquaticlife -digest%40yahoog roups.com> to receive the > > > digest, > > > > > > > > which includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Or email aquaticlife- nomail@yahoogrou ps.com > > > > > > > <mailto:aquaticlife -nomail%40yahoog roups.com> > > > > > > > > <mailto:aquaticlife -nomail%40yahoog roups.com> for the No E-Mail > > > > > > > > option where you will still be able to read messages on the group > > > > > > > > and post replies. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Or email aquaticlife- normal@yahoogrou ps.com > > > > > > > <mailto:aquaticlife -normal%40yahoog roups.com> > > > > > > > > <mailto:aquaticlife -normal%40yahoog roups.com> to receive > individual > > > > > > > > e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ------------ --------- --------- ------ > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, > > > > > > > Thank You. > > > > > > > > ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> > ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , > > > > > > > > .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE > all TEXT > > > > > > > > that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the > > > > > > > > original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject > (was re: > > > > > > > > old subject)" <- > <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , > > > > > > > > .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. > > > > > > > > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of > > > > > > > > unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by clicking on > > > > > > > > "Edit My Membership" on the home page. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Or e-mail aquaticlife- digest@yahoogrou ps.com > > > > > > > <mailto:aquaticlife -digest%40yahoog roups.com> > > > > > > > > <mailto:aquaticlife -digest%40yahoog roups.com> to receive the > > > digest, > > > > > > > > which includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Or email aquaticlife- nomail@yahoogrou ps.com > > > > > > > <mailto:aquaticlife -nomail%40yahoog roups.com> > > > > > > > > <mailto:aquaticlife -nomail%40yahoog roups.com> for the No E-Mail > > > > > > > > option where you will still be able to read messages on the group > > > > > > > > and post replies. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Or email aquaticlife- normal@yahoogrou ps.com > > > > > > > <mailto:aquaticlife -normal%40yahoog roups.com> > > > > > > > > <mailto:aquaticlife -normal%40yahoog roups.com> to receive > individual > > > > > > > > e-mails.Yahoo! 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Group: AquaticLife	Message: 44506	From: harry perry	Date: 11/13/2009
Subject: Re: Question about eating snails/clams and oysters/Amber/again

Our Lenny? The guy who bites off the heads of crayfish and eats whole crab sandwiches. What's a little dechlorinator?. Harry --- On Fri, 11/13/09, Amber Berglund <arberglund@...> wrote: From: Amber Berglund <arberglund@...> Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Question about eating snails/clams and oysters/Amber To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Date: Friday, November 13, 2009, 6:46 PM   Hey tell that to Lenny, he's the one that said I can't eat my snails ;) LOL. It actually does state on the API stress coat bottle to not use it on fish that will be eaten, ornamental fish only, but it doesn't say anything about other aquatic creatures, it only says "fish". Amber harry perry wrote: > > > When you get snails in the restaurant you get the whole snail. Of > course they weren't in dechlorinator. But if the snail survived the > declor. how bad could it be and also, where did the snails in the > restaurant come from?. > > A lot more than dechlorinator is in the water that oysters and clams > come from. > > Harry > > --- On Fri, 11/13/09, Amber Berglund <arberglund@gmail. com > <mailto:arberglund% 40gmail.com> > wrote: > > From: Amber Berglund <arberglund@gmail. com > <mailto:arberglund% 40gmail.com> > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Question about eating snails/clams and oysters > To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com <mailto:AquaticLife %40yahoogroups. com> > Date: Friday, November 13, 2009, 6:37 PM > > > > I was going by what applesnail.net said, which states do NOT eat the > > intestines/eggs of the snails, only the foot part. I figured if you're > > not eating their digestive system then you shouldn't have health issues > > from the dechlor products. But I could be wrong, just my personal guess > > ;) LOL > > Amber > > harry perry wrote: > > > > > > > > > You eat the whole thing. Delicious... ... Snails will take on the taste > > > of the sauce they are prepared in. They don't have a very distinct > > > taste. Normally a garlic butter sauce works fine. > > > > > > BTW if anyone is raising eels they are delicious also and good for you. > > > > > > Harry > > > > > > --- On Thu, 11/12/09, Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@gmail. com > > > <mailto:GoldLenny% 40gmail.com> > wrote: > > > > > > From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@gmail. com > > > <mailto:GoldLenny% 40gmail.com> > > > > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Question about eating snails > > > To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com <mailto:AquaticLife > %40yahoogroups. com> > > > Date: Thursday, November 12, 2009, 9:46 PM > > > > > > > > > > > > That's why God made spices/seasonings. Almost everything would taste > > > bad if > > > > > > it wasn't seasoned properly. I would imagine crawfish guts and crab guts > > > > > > would taste bad also if not boiled in Cajun spices or marinated in Cajun > > > > > > spices and then fried (for soft shell inverts). MMMMMMMMMM.. getting > > > hungry > > > > > > again. > > > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > > > > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com > > > > > > (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right > > > > > > side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, > Month) > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > > > > From: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com [mailto:AquaticLife @ yahoogroups. > > > com] On > > > > > > Behalf Of Amber Berglund > > > > > > Sent: Thursday, November 12, 2009 8:23 PM > > > > > > To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com > > > > > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Question about eating snails > > > > > > On applesnail.net it says not to eat the intestines and eggs because > they > > > > > > taste bad, so that makes enough sense to me to not eat them ;) LOL > > > > > > Amber > > > > > > Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Why don't they eat the rest? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Down here, with inverts and crustaceans, we eat the whole thing... > > > > > > > with boiled crawfish, we suck the heads, then pinch the tails (or with > > > > > > > soft shell crawfish, we eat the whole thing fried)... we eat raw > > > > > > > oysters in their entirety (innards and all) also when fried... and > > > > > > > nothings better than a fried soft shell crab po-boy, which means we're > > > > > > > eating all of their innards too. MMMMMMMMMM.. . I could go on and on > > > > > > > but I'm getting hungry now so I'm off to get some lunch. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > > > > > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com > > > > > > > <http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com> (Links to any articles referenced in > > > > > > > above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels > > > > > > > and also under Archives by Year, Month) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > > > > > From: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com > > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife %40yahoogroups. com> > > > > > > > [mailto:AquaticLife @ yahoogroups. com > > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife %40yahoogroups. com>] On Behalf Of Amber Berglund > > > > > > > Sent: Thursday, November 12, 2009 12:03 PM > > > > > > > To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com <mailto:AquaticLife > > > %40yahoogroups. com> > > > > > > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Question about eating snails > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Okay back to eating snails (darn people hijacking my thread ;) LOL). > > > > > > > Could it be that it's safer to eat snails even if you use dechlor > > > > > > > because you only eat the foot of the snail and not the intestines, > etc? > > > > > > > Just a thought, > > > > > > > Amber > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Are you sure that wasn't a DERF shirt > > > > > > > > http://www.zazzle. com/derf_ tshirt-235652671 296243847 > > > > > > > <http://www.zazzle. com/derf_ tshirt-235652671 296243847> > > > > > > > > <http://www.zazzle. com/derf_ tshirt-235652671 296243847 > > > > > > > <http://www.zazzle. com/derf_ tshirt-235652671 296243847>> and you > were > > > > > > > > just looking in the mirror? This one even comes with your picture on > > > > > > > > it. ;-) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Kind of like them people who have REKCUS written on their foreheads. > > > > > > > > ;-) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > > > > > > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com > > > > > > > <http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com> > > > > > > > > <http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com <http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com>> > > > > > > > (Links to any articles referenced in > > > > > > > > above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under > > > > > > > > Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > > > > > > From: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com > > > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife %40yahoogroups. com> > > > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife %40yahoogroups. com> > > > > > > > > [mailto:AquaticLife @ yahoogroups. com > > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife %40yahoogroups. com> > > > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife %40yahoogroups. com>] On Behalf Of Steve Szabo > > > > > > > > Sent: Tuesday, November 10, 2009 10:08 PM > > > > > > > > To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com > > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife %40yahoogroups. com> > > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife %40yahoogroups. com> > > > > > > > > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Question about eating snails > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Amber, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > No, I don't have to. Some of the shirts come with names already on > > > them. > > > > > > > > That one happened to be Fred. He had his name embroidered right over > > > > > > > > his left pocket. They are hard to come by. I've only seen them at > > > > > > > Sallie's. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > \\Steve// > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > > > > > > From: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com > > > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife %40yahoogroups. com> > > > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife %40yahoogroups. com> > > > > > > > > [mailto:AquaticLife @ yahoogroups. com > > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife %40yahoogroups. com> > > > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife %40yahoogroups. com>] On Behalf Of Amber > Berglund > > > > > > > > Sent: Tuesday, November 10, 2009 9:20 PM > > > > > > > > To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com > > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife %40yahoogroups. com> > > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife %40yahoogroups. com> > > > > > > > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Question about eating snails > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Actually no, but that one looks good ;) LOL Wait... you name your > > > > > > > shirts? > > > > > > > > What's your favorite shirt named right now? LOL > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Amber > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Steve Szabo wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Ws this the recipe? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ESCARGOTS A LA FETTUCCINI > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 24 (7 1/2 oz. can) very lg. sized escargots, drained > > > > > > > > > 4 tbsp. butter > > > > > > > > > 1-2 garlic cloves, minced > > > > > > > > > 1/2 pt. heavy cream > > > > > > > > > 1/2 c. grated Parmesan cheese > > > > > > > > > 1 pkg. frozen peas > > > > > > > > > Salt and pepper > > > > > > > > > 1 lb. fettuccini > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Drain escargots, melt butter in heavy saucepan and sautﾃδｩ escargot > > > > > > > > > and garlic for 3 minutes. Pour in heavy cream and simmer until > > > > > > > > > mixture thickens slightly. Add grated cheese, peas and seasonings. > > > > > > > > > Cook a few minutes longer until escargots and sauce are hot. Do > > > > > > > > > not > > > > > > > overcook. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > While sauce is cooking place fettuccini in a pot of boiling > > > > > > > > > (salted) water. > > > > > > > > > Cook 3-4 minutes. Drain pasta and mix with escargots sauce until > > > > > > > > > pasta is well coated. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I once had a shirt named Fred. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > \\Steve// > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > > > > > > > From: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com > > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife %40yahoogroups. com> > > > > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife %40yahoogroups. com> > > > > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife %40yahoogroups. com> > > > > > > > > > [mailto:AquaticLife @ yahoogroups. com > > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife %40yahoogroups. com> > > > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife %40yahoogroups. com> > > > > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife %40yahoogroups. com>] On Behalf Of Amber > > > > > > > > > Berglund > > > > > > > > > Sent: Tuesday, November 10, 2009 5:17 PM > > > > > > > > > To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com > > > > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife %40yahoogroups. com> > > > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife %40yahoogroups. com> > > > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife %40yahoogroups. com> > > > > > > > > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Question about eating snails > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Actually if you look on applesnail.net they list recipe's for > > > > > > > > > eating your snails, LOL. > > > > > > > > > And do dead snails even have guts? LOL. > > > > > > > > > There are 3 drivers (for now, soon to be 4 hopefully), so they'll > > > > > > > > > have to narrow it down by names, so I'll have to wear a name tag > > > > > > > > > that says, "Hello my name is Fred" or something, LOL. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Amber > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Ummmm.. you (or rather your friend) shouldn't do this. Most > > > > > > > > > > dechlor products EXPLICITLY advise against eating ornamental > > > > > > > > > > fish (and probably critters too) that are kept in waters treated > > > > > > > > > > with a dechlor product. I think the chemicals used in dechlors > > > > > > > > > > cause health problems, although I doubt that five snails would > > > > > > > > > > matter. I think it's more for fish farms that > > > > > > > > > might > > > > > > > > > > think about using Sodium Thiosulphate as their dechlor if they > > > > > > > > > > did not have a natural water source for the fish stock ponds. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > As far as the different taste, could it be like other meats... > > > > > > > > > chicken for > > > > > > > > > > example, where the dark meat is much different in taste and > > > > > > > > > > texture than white meat? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Also, for your health, please do not post this on the > > > > > > > > > > Applesnail.net forums.. you know them folks are zealous about > > > > > > > > > > their snails. They might hunt you down and throw dead snail guts > > > > > > > > > > on you. LOL They might even > > > > > > > > > form a > > > > > > > > > > new radical group called PeTS... People for the Ethical > > > > > > > > > > Treatment of Snails. > > > > > > > > > > LOL And if they can't find you, they might go after every other > > > > > > > > > > delivery truck on your island. BTW... are you the only driver or > > > > > > > > > > is Ketchikan big enough for two FedEx trucks? LOL > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > > > > > > > > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com > > > > > > > <http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com> > > > > > > > > <http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com <http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com>> > > > > > > > > > <http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com <http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com> > > > > > > > <http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com <http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com>>> > > > > > > > > <http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com <http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com> > > > > > > > <http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com <http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com>> > > > > > > > > > <http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com <http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com> > > > > > > > <http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com <http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com>>>> > > > > > > > > > > (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on > > > > > > > > > > the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under > > > > > > > > > > Archives by Year, > > > > > > > > > Month) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > > > > > > > > From: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com > > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife %40yahoogroups. com> > > > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife %40yahoogroups. com> > > > > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife %40yahoogroups. com> > > > > > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife %40yahoogroups. com> > > > > > > > > > > [mailto:AquaticLife @ yahoogroups. com > > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife %40yahoogroups. com> > > > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife %40yahoogroups. com> > > > > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife %40yahoogroups. com> > > > > > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife %40yahoogroups. com>] On Behalf Of Amber > > > > > > > > > > Berglund > > > > > > > > > > Sent: Tuesday, November 10, 2009 10:59 AM > > > > > > > > > > To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com > > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife %40yahoogroups. com> > > > > > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife %40yahoogroups. com> > > > > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife %40yahoogroups. com> > > > > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife %40yahoogroups. com> > > > > > > > > > > Subject: [AquaticLife] Question about eating snails > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Okay so a friend of mine was inquiring about my mystery snails > > > > > > > > > > for > > > > > > > > > eating > > > > > > > > > > purposes. Since I have a mass quantity of the happy little guys > > > > > > > > > > and > > > > > > > > > gals I > > > > > > > > > > figured I would give him all my large snails that are fully > grown. > > > > > > > > > > He ended up with 5 and cooked them up as spaghetti. Now my > > > > > > > > > > question is this; why would the dark footed (purple) mystery > > > > > > > > > > snails taste much saltier > > > > > > > > > than the > > > > > > > > > > ones with white feet? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Sorry to offend anyone at the idea of eating snails, I've had to > > > > > > > > > > do a survival trip in my lifetime and had to survive off of > > > > > > > > > > limpets, so I'm sure they taste similar to limpets when cooked > > > > > > > > > > up, so it doesn't really > > > > > > > > > offend > > > > > > > > > > me, LOL. > > > > > > > > > > Not to mention the little guys are threatening to breed me out > > > > > > > > > > of house and home ;) LOL. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Amber > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ------------ --------- --------- ------ > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, > > > > > > > Thank You. > > > > > > > > ﾃつｷﾃつｴﾃつｯ`ﾃつｷ.ﾃつｸﾃつｸ.><((((ﾃつｺ>.ﾃつｷﾃつｴﾃつｯ`ﾃつｷ.ﾃつｸﾃつｸ.ﾃつｷﾃつｴﾃつｯ`ﾃつｷ.ﾃつｸ><((((ﾃつｺ> > ﾃつｸ.ﾃつｷﾃつｴﾃつｯ`ﾃつｷ.ﾃつｸ. , > > > > > > > > .ﾃつｷﾃつｴﾃつｯ`ﾃつｷ..><((((ﾃつｺ> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE > all TEXT > > > > > > > > that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the > > > > > > > > original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject > (was re: > > > > > > > > old subject)" <- > <ﾃつｺ((((><.ﾃつｷﾃつｴﾃつｯ`ﾃつｷ.ﾃつｸﾃつｸ.ﾃつｷﾃつｴﾃつｯ`ﾃつｷ.ﾃつｸ<ﾃつｺ((((><ﾃつｸ.ﾃつｷﾃつｴﾃつｯ`ﾃつｷ.ﾃつｸ. , > > > > > > > > .ﾃつｷﾃつｴﾃつｯ`ﾃつｷ..<ﾃつｺ((((><ﾃつｷﾃつｴﾃつｯ`ﾃつｷ.ﾃつｸﾃつｸ. > > > > > > > > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of > > > > > > > > unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by clicking on > > > > > > > > "Edit My Membership" on the home page. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Or e-mail aquaticlife- digest@yahoogrou ps.com > > > > > > > <mailto:aquaticlife -digest%40yahoog roups.com> > > > > > > > > <mailto:aquaticlife -digest%40yahoog roups.com> to receive the > > > digest, > > > > > > > > which includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Or email aquaticlife- nomail@yahoogrou ps.com > > > > > > > <mailto:aquaticlife -nomail%40yahoog roups.com> > > > > > > > > <mailto:aquaticlife -nomail%40yahoog roups.com> for the No E-Mail > > > > > > > > option where you will still be able to read messages on the group > > > > > > > > and post replies. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Or email aquaticlife- normal@yahoogrou ps.com > > > > > > > <mailto:aquaticlife -normal%40yahoog roups.com> > > > > > > > > <mailto:aquaticlife -normal%40yahoog roups.com> to receive > individual > > > > > > > > e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ------------ --------- --------- ------ > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, > > > > > > > Thank You. > > > > > > > > ﾃつｷﾃつｴﾃつｯ`ﾃつｷ.ﾃつｸﾃつｸ.><((((ﾃつｺ>.ﾃつｷﾃつｴﾃつｯ`ﾃつｷ.ﾃつｸﾃつｸ.ﾃつｷﾃつｴﾃつｯ`ﾃつｷ.ﾃつｸ><((((ﾃつｺ> > ﾃつｸ.ﾃつｷﾃつｴﾃつｯ`ﾃつｷ.ﾃつｸ. , > > > > > > > > .ﾃつｷﾃつｴﾃつｯ`ﾃつｷ..><((((ﾃつｺ> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE > all TEXT > > > > > > > > that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the > > > > > > > > original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject > (was re: > > > > > > > > old subject)" <- > <ﾃつｺ((((><.ﾃつｷﾃつｴﾃつｯ`ﾃつｷ.ﾃつｸﾃつｸ.ﾃつｷﾃつｴﾃつｯ`ﾃつｷ.ﾃつｸ<ﾃつｺ((((><ﾃつｸ.ﾃつｷﾃつｴﾃつｯ`ﾃつｷ.ﾃつｸ. , > > > > > > > > .ﾃつｷﾃつｴﾃつｯ`ﾃつｷ..<ﾃつｺ((((><ﾃつｷﾃつｴﾃつｯ`ﾃつｷ.ﾃつｸﾃつｸ. > > > > > > > > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of > > > > > > > > unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by clicking on > > > > > > > > "Edit My Membership" on the home page. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Or e-mail aquaticlife- digest@yahoogrou ps.com > > > > > > > <mailto:aquaticlife -digest%40yahoog roups.com> > > > > > > > > <mailto:aquaticlife -digest%40yahoog roups.com> to receive the > > > digest, > > > > > > > > which includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Or email aquaticlife- nomail@yahoogrou ps.com > > > > > > > <mailto:aquaticlife -nomail%40yahoog roups.com> > > > > > > > > <mailto:aquaticlife -nomail%40yahoog roups.com> for the No E-Mail > > > > > > > > option where you will still be able to read messages on the group > > > > > > > > and post replies. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Or email aquaticlife- normal@yahoogrou ps.com > > > > > > > <mailto:aquaticlife -normal%40yahoog roups.com> > > > > > > > > <mailto:aquaticlife -normal%40yahoog roups.com> to receive > individual > > > > > > > > e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ------------ --------- --------- ------ > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, > > > Thank You. > > > > > > > ﾃつｷﾃつｴﾃつｯ`ﾃつｷ.ﾃつｸﾃつｸ.><((((ﾃつｺ>.ﾃつｷﾃつｴﾃつｯ`ﾃつｷ.ﾃつｸﾃつｸ.ﾃつｷﾃつｴﾃつｯ`ﾃつｷ.ﾃつｸ><((((ﾃつｺ> > ﾃつｸ.ﾃつｷﾃつｴﾃつｯ`ﾃつｷ.ﾃつｸ. , > > > > > > > .ﾃつｷﾃつｴﾃつｯ`ﾃつｷ..><((((ﾃつｺ> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all > TEXT > > > > > > > that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the > > > > > > > original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: > > > > > > > old subject)" <- > <ﾃつｺ((((><.ﾃつｷﾃつｴﾃつｯ`ﾃつｷ.ﾃつｸﾃつｸ.ﾃつｷﾃつｴﾃつｯ`ﾃつｷ.ﾃつｸ<ﾃつｺ((((><ﾃつｸ.ﾃつｷﾃつｴﾃつｯ`ﾃつｷ.ﾃつｸ. , > > > > > > > .ﾃつｷﾃつｴﾃつｯ`ﾃつｷ..<ﾃつｺ((((><ﾃつｷﾃつｴﾃつｯ`ﾃつｷ.ﾃつｸﾃつｸ. > > > > > > > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of unsubscribing, > > > > > > > you can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My > > > > > > > Membership" on the home page. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Or e-mail aquaticlife- digest@yahoogrou ps.com > > > > > > > <mailto:aquaticlife -digest%40yahoog roups.com> to receive the digest, > > > > > > > which includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Or email aquaticlife- nomail@yahoogrou ps.com > > > > > > > <mailto:aquaticlife -nomail%40yahoog roups.com> for the No E-Mail > > > option > > > > > > > where you will still be able to read messages on the group and post > > > > > > > replies. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Or email aquaticlife- normal@yahoogrou ps.com > > > > > > > <mailto:aquaticlife -normal%40yahoog roups.com> to receive individual > > > > > > > e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ------------ --------- --------- ------ > > > > > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, > Thank You. > > > > > > ﾃつｷﾃつｴﾃつｯ`ﾃつｷ.ﾃつｸﾃつｸ.><((((ﾃつｺ>.ﾃつｷﾃつｴﾃつｯ`ﾃつｷ.ﾃつｸﾃつｸ.ﾃつｷﾃつｴﾃつｯ`ﾃつｷ.ﾃつｸ><((((ﾃつｺ> > ﾃつｸ.ﾃつｷﾃつｴﾃつｯ`ﾃつｷ.ﾃつｸ. , .ﾃつｷﾃつｴﾃつｯ`ﾃつｷ..><((((ﾃつｺ> > > > > > > PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT > important to > > > > > > the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the > > > SUBJECT > > > > > > LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- > > > > > > <ﾃつｺ((((><.ﾃつｷﾃつｴﾃつｯ`ﾃつｷ.ﾃつｸﾃつｸ.ﾃつｷﾃつｴﾃつｯ`ﾃつｷ.ﾃつｸ<ﾃつｺ((((><ﾃつｸ.ﾃつｷﾃつｴﾃつｯ`ﾃつｷ.ﾃつｸ. , > .ﾃつｷﾃつｴﾃつｯ`ﾃつｷ..<ﾃつｺ((((><ﾃつｷﾃつｴﾃつｯ`ﾃつｷ.ﾃつｸﾃつｸ. > > > > > > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. > > > > > > If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of > unsubscribing, you > > > > > > can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My Membership" > on the > > > > > > home page. > > > > > > Or e-mail aquaticlife- digest@yahoogrou ps.com to receive the digest, > > > which > > > > > > includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email > > > > > > Or email aquaticlife- nomail@yahoogrou ps.com for the No E-Mail option > > > where > > > > > > you will still be able to read messages on the group and post replies. > > > > > > Or email aquaticlife- normal@yahoogrou ps.com to receive individual > > > > > > e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 44507	From: Gwydryn@aol.com	Date: 11/13/2009
Subject: Re: Question about eating snails/clams and oysters

In a message dated 11/13/2009 6:16:13 P.M. Central Standard Time, arberglund@... writes: I was going by what applesnail.net said, which states do NOT eat the intestines/eggs of the snails, only the foot part. I figured if you're not eating their digestive system then you shouldn't have health issues from the dechlor products. But I could be wrong, just my personal guess ;) LOL Amber I have never had escargot, but I would be eating only the foot part, I have an aversion to finding eyes in my food. I once returned a conch salad because the used the head and when I looked in my plate many dozens of teeny blue eyes were staring back at me... Now, a whole fish fries, I don't have a problem with, I can eat around it's eyes, but them teeny eyes....ewwww! Enid "Life is not about waiting for the storms to pass...it's about learning how to dance in the rain." [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 44508	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 11/13/2009
Subject: Re: Question about eating snails/clams and oysters/Amber

Harry, Naturally you would not find restaurant snails to have been in dechlorinated water. They are LAND snails. In reality, only land snails should have the designation of escargot. \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of harry perry Sent: Friday, November 13, 2009 6:45 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Question about eating snails/clams and oysters/Amber When you get snails in the restaurant you get the whole snail. Of course they weren't in dechlorinator. But if the snail survived the declor. how bad could it be and also, where did the snails in the restaurant come from?. A lot more than dechlorinator is in the water that oysters and clams come from. Harry -------------------<snip>-------------------

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 44509	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 11/13/2009
Subject: Re: Question about eating snails/clams and oysters

Because fish and most other aquatic species have osmoregulatory systems I believe that all of their organs (and remember skin and muscle are also organs... not just the innards) would suck in whatever is in the water, including pollutants, etc. This is why it's not good to eat fish, oysters, shrimp, etc., that come from polluted waters... as their flesh/organs will contain similar percentages of the pollutants as the surrounding waters. This is why the addition of salt is so rough on snails/fish as their osmoregulatory systems (and kidneys) have to go into overdrive to try and balance their entire bodies with the surrounding water. Here's a scientific article about a particular snail and the first paragraph in the Abstract goes into this, related to FMRP-amide related peptides (FARP's)... http://www.biolbull.org/cgi/reprint/196/2/153.pdf?ck=nck (PDF document) Please do not ask me to explain what FARP's are. LOL Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Amber Berglund Sent: Friday, November 13, 2009 5:38 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Question about eating snails/clams and oysters I was going by what applesnail.net said, which states do NOT eat the intestines/eggs of the snails, only the foot part. I figured if you're not eating their digestive system then you shouldn't have health issues from the dechlor products. But I could be wrong, just my personal guess ;) LOL Amber harry perry wrote: > > > You eat the whole thing. Delicious...... Snails will take on the taste > of the sauce they are prepared in. They don't have a very distinct > taste. Normally a garlic butter sauce works fine. > > BTW if anyone is raising eels they are delicious also and good for you. > > Harry > > --- On Thu, 11/12/09, Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@... > <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com>> wrote: > > From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@... > <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com>> > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Question about eating snails > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Date: Thursday, November 12, 2009, 9:46 PM > > > > That's why God made spices/seasonings. Almost everything would taste > bad if > > it wasn't seasoned properly. I would imagine crawfish guts and crab > guts > > would taste bad also if not boiled in Cajun spices or marinated in > Cajun > > spices and then fried (for soft shell inverts). MMMMMMMMMM.. getting > hungry > > again. > > Lenny Vasbinder > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com > > (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the > right > > side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, > Month) > > -----Original Message----- > > From: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com [mailto:AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. > com] On > > Behalf Of Amber Berglund > > Sent: Thursday, November 12, 2009 8:23 PM > > To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Question about eating snails > > On applesnail.net it says not to eat the intestines and eggs because > they > > taste bad, so that makes enough sense to me to not eat them ;) LOL > > Amber > > Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > > > > > > Why don't they eat the rest? > > > > > > Down here, with inverts and crustaceans, we eat the whole thing... > > > with boiled crawfish, we suck the heads, then pinch the tails (or > > with > > > soft shell crawfish, we eat the whole thing fried)... we eat raw > > > oysters in their entirety (innards and all) also when fried... and > > > nothings better than a fried soft shell crab po-boy, which means > > we're > > > eating all of their innards too. MMMMMMMMMM.. . I could go on and on > > > but I'm getting hungry now so I'm off to get some lunch. > > > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com > > > <http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com> (Links to any articles referenced > > in > > > above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under > > Labels > > > and also under Archives by Year, Month) > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > From: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com > > > <mailto:AquaticLife %40yahoogroups. com> > > > [mailto:AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com > > > <mailto:AquaticLife %40yahoogroups. com>] On Behalf Of Amber > > Berglund > > > Sent: Thursday, November 12, 2009 12:03 PM > > > To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com <mailto:AquaticLife > %40yahoogroups. com> > > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Question about eating snails > > > > > > Okay back to eating snails (darn people hijacking my thread ;) LOL). > > > Could it be that it's safer to eat snails even if you use dechlor > > > because you only eat the foot of the snail and not the intestines, etc? > > > Just a thought, > > > Amber >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 44510	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 11/13/2009
Subject: Re: Question about eating snails/clams and oysters/Amber

I covered this in my most recent post in this thread. I can tell you that the State Dept. Of Fisheries often shuts down oyster harvesting in certain areas of coastal Louisiana if the pollution rates get to certain levels. Remember that our tanks are closed ecosystems and are much more heavily stocked (and polluted) than a typical lake, river or ocean. Add in all the chemicals that some folks throw in their tanks and many tanks would qualify to be on the EPA's Superfund site list http://www.epa.gov/superfund/sites/index.htm. Further, earlier in the thread, I mentioned that it was probably the EDTA (acronym for a LONG chemical name) part of most dechlor products that caused the problem as EDTA is a chelating agent that encapsulates heavy metals to make them not kill our fish/inverts. If it wasn't for the EDTA, most of our fish/inverts would die long before they could be eaten but the EDTA encapsulates the heavy metals so that when they are still absorbed by the fish/inverts, via osmoregulation, they do not kill the fish/inverts but they are still there if/when we should eat them. I'm not sure if the encapsulation provided by EDTA would protect us from the possibility of the high heavy metals in our fish/inverts. This is only a theory of mine right now, based on my readings thus far but it logically makes sense... at least to me. ;-) Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Amber Berglund Sent: Friday, November 13, 2009 5:46 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Question about eating snails/clams and oysters/Amber Hey tell that to Lenny, he's the one that said I can't eat my snails ;) LOL. It actually does state on the API stress coat bottle to not use it on fish that will be eaten, ornamental fish only, but it doesn't say anything about other aquatic creatures, it only says "fish". Amber harry perry wrote: > > > When you get snails in the restaurant you get the whole snail. Of > course they weren't in dechlorinator. But if the snail survived the > declor. how bad could it be and also, where did the snails in the > restaurant come from?. > > A lot more than dechlorinator is in the water that oysters and clams > come from. > > Harry > > --- On Fri, 11/13/09, Amber Berglund <arberglund@... > <mailto:arberglund%40gmail.com>> wrote: > > From: Amber Berglund <arberglund@... > <mailto:arberglund%40gmail.com>> > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Question about eating snails/clams and > oysters > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Date: Friday, November 13, 2009, 6:37 PM > > > > I was going by what applesnail.net said, which states do NOT eat the > > intestines/eggs of the snails, only the foot part. I figured if you're > > not eating their digestive system then you shouldn't have health > issues > > from the dechlor products. But I could be wrong, just my personal > guess > > ;) LOL > > Amber > > harry perry wrote: > > > > > > > > > You eat the whole thing. Delicious... ... Snails will take on the > > taste > > > of the sauce they are prepared in. They don't have a very distinct > > > taste. Normally a garlic butter sauce works fine. > > > > > > BTW if anyone is raising eels they are delicious also and good for you. > > > > > > Harry > > > > > > --- On Thu, 11/12/09, Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@gmail. com > > > <mailto:GoldLenny% 40gmail.com> > wrote: > > > > > > From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@gmail. com > > > <mailto:GoldLenny% 40gmail.com> > > > > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Question about eating snails > > > To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com <mailto:AquaticLife > %40yahoogroups. com> > > > Date: Thursday, November 12, 2009, 9:46 PM > > > > > > > > > > > > That's why God made spices/seasonings. Almost everything would taste > > > bad if > > > > > > it wasn't seasoned properly. I would imagine crawfish guts and crab > > guts > > > > > > would taste bad also if not boiled in Cajun spices or marinated in > > Cajun > > > > > > spices and then fried (for soft shell inverts). MMMMMMMMMM.. getting > > > hungry > > > > > > again. > > > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > > > > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com > > > > > > (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the > > right > > > > > > side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, > Month) > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > > > > From: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com [mailto:AquaticLife @ yahoogroups. > > > com] On > > > > > > Behalf Of Amber Berglund > > > > > > Sent: Thursday, November 12, 2009 8:23 PM > > > > > > To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com > > > > > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Question about eating snails > > > > > > On applesnail.net it says not to eat the intestines and eggs because > they > > > > > > taste bad, so that makes enough sense to me to not eat them ;) LOL > > > > > > Amber > > > > > > Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Why don't they eat the rest? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Down here, with inverts and crustaceans, we eat the whole thing... > > > > > > > with boiled crawfish, we suck the heads, then pinch the tails (or > > > with > > > > > > > soft shell crawfish, we eat the whole thing fried)... we eat raw > > > > > > > oysters in their entirety (innards and all) also when fried... and > > > > > > > nothings better than a fried soft shell crab po-boy, which means > > > we're > > > > > > > eating all of their innards too. MMMMMMMMMM.. . I could go on and > > > on > > > > > > > but I'm getting hungry now so I'm off to get some lunch. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > > > > > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com > > > > > > > <http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com> (Links to any articles > > > referenced in > > > > > > > above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under > > > Labels > > > > > > > and also under Archives by Year, Month) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > > > > > From: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com > > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife %40yahoogroups. com> > > > > > > > [mailto:AquaticLife @ yahoogroups. com > > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife %40yahoogroups. com>] On Behalf Of Amber > > > Berglund > > > > > > > Sent: Thursday, November 12, 2009 12:03 PM > > > > > > > To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com <mailto:AquaticLife > > > %40yahoogroups. com> > > > > > > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Question about eating snails > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Okay back to eating snails (darn people hijacking my thread ;) LOL). > > > > > > > Could it be that it's safer to eat snails even if you use dechlor > > > > > > > because you only eat the foot of the snail and not the intestines, > etc? > > > > > > > Just a thought, > > > > > > > Amber

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 44511	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 11/13/2009
Subject: Re: Question about eating snails/clams and oysters/Amber/again

LOL. Well, I'm the kind of guy that tugged Superman's cape off (then I threw it on the ground and popped the gator on it), then I spit into the wind, I pulled the mask off that ol' Lone Ranger and I not only messed around with Jim but I kicked Jim's butt more than once... so I personally would eat the entire thing, dechlorinator, EDTA, Stress-this, Slime-that, pH up and pH down and pH all-around included and not think twice about it.... but most people aren't this brave... or would that be crazy??? For those who don't know what I was rambling about... http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YQrTGE4wwwA And if anyone is wondering about "popping the gator"... http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VYL3Hz5uM18 (best performed under the influence of lots of adult beverages with onlookers being suitably sauced... lol) Thank God, video cameras and cell phones weren't as common when I was in my prime. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of harry perry Sent: Friday, November 13, 2009 6:00 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Question about eating snails/clams and oysters/Amber/again Our Lenny? The guy who bites off the heads of crayfish and eats whole crab sandwiches. What's a little dechlorinator?. Harry --- On Fri, 11/13/09, Amber Berglund <arberglund@...> wrote: From: Amber Berglund <arberglund@...> Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Question about eating snails/clams and oysters/Amber To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Date: Friday, November 13, 2009, 6:46 PM Hey tell that to Lenny, he's the one that said I can't eat my snails ;) LOL. It actually does state on the API stress coat bottle to not use it on fish that will be eaten, ornamental fish only, but it doesn't say anything about other aquatic creatures, it only says "fish". Amber harry perry wrote: > > > When you get snails in the restaurant you get the whole snail. Of > course they weren't in dechlorinator. But if the snail survived the > declor. how bad could it be and also, where did the snails in the > restaurant come from?. > > A lot more than dechlorinator is in the water that oysters and clams > come from. > > Harry > > --- On Fri, 11/13/09, Amber Berglund <arberglund@gmail. com > <mailto:arberglund% 40gmail.com> > wrote: > > From: Amber Berglund <arberglund@gmail. com > <mailto:arberglund% 40gmail.com> > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Question about eating snails/clams and > oysters > To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com <mailto:AquaticLife %40yahoogroups. > com> > Date: Friday, November 13, 2009, 6:37 PM > > > > I was going by what applesnail.net said, which states do NOT eat the > > intestines/eggs of the snails, only the foot part. I figured if you're > > not eating their digestive system then you shouldn't have health > issues > > from the dechlor products. But I could be wrong, just my personal > guess > > ;) LOL > > Amber > > harry perry wrote: > > > > > > > > > You eat the whole thing. Delicious... ... Snails will take on the > > taste > > > of the sauce they are prepared in. They don't have a very distinct > > > taste. Normally a garlic butter sauce works fine. > > > > > > BTW if anyone is raising eels they are delicious also and good for you. > > > > > > Harry

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 44512	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 11/13/2009
Subject: Re: Question about eating snails/clams and oysters

Well.. I know who's the first to get voted off AquaticLife Survivor Island. ;-) Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Gwydryn@... Sent: Friday, November 13, 2009 6:32 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Question about eating snails/clams and oysters In a message dated 11/13/2009 6:16:13 P.M. Central Standard Time, arberglund@... writes: I was going by what applesnail.net said, which states do NOT eat the intestines/eggs of the snails, only the foot part. I figured if you're not eating their digestive system then you shouldn't have health issues from the dechlor products. But I could be wrong, just my personal guess ;) LOL Amber I have never had escargot, but I would be eating only the foot part, I have an aversion to finding eyes in my food. I once returned a conch salad because the used the head and when I looked in my plate many dozens of teeny blue eyes were staring back at me... Now, a whole fish fries, I don't have a problem with, I can eat around it's eyes, but them teeny eyes....ewwww! Enid "Life is not about waiting for the storms to pass...it's about learning how to dance in the rain."

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 44513	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 11/13/2009
Subject: Re: Aquarium heater sedimentation?

I noticed the out of focus shot also. I think the problem may be with the auto focus focusing on the glass rather than on the heater. It would depend on the actual camera how to fix it. If manual focus mode is available, then manually focus the camera. If it is not, perhaps the f/ stop can be played with, in which case you could set it higher than called for, which will decrease the shutter speed, so it would be best to use a tripod to hold the camera, or place it on a steady surface. If neither of those options are available, Then you might want to look around for another camera. If I may be so bold, I can make a suggestion that you look at this one: http://www.hasselbladusa.com/media/2081132/uk_h4d_datasheet_v3.pdf http://tinyurl.com/ycujcoz This one should meet most of your needs, and it has a 60 megapixel CCD. You can have it for just under a mere $42,000. \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Lenny V. aka GoldLenny Sent: Friday, November 13, 2009 11:19 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: Aquarium heater sedimentation? Hmmmm.... then I'm not sure what that could be. I'm looking at the picture again right now and just to be sure we're seeing the same things, what I'm seeing in the picture is an upright glass tube section of the heater held in place by one suction cup clamp and to me, the tannish colored *stuff* starts growing around where the clamp starts and looks kind of thick downward from there but to me, it looks like it's only growing on the front half of the glass heater tube. Let me know if this is what you were trying to take a picture of or if it was the darker rust colored streaking above the clamp? If it's the rust colored stuff, I would guess at diatoms but the tannish colored stuff is unknown to me and would appear to be some kind of fungi/mold. Can you try to get some better pictures. The one you posted is kind of blurry. You might have to back your camera up a little. Many cameras, unless they have a macro mode, cannot take really close up pictures and probably have to be at least a foot away from something or it will come out blurry. Some cameras might have to be 2'-3' away. If you have a local university, you could always call their biology department and ask if you could bring a sample to them for physical and/or microscopic identification, in case it's a fungus or mold, most of which are not harmful and this could explain why you are getting this and not your parents. It could have come in on one of your plants. As far as you pH. If your tap water 48 hour baseline is only 7.1, then there is something in the tank that is raising the pH. Silica based sands should be inert but some other types of sand can cause the pH to rise, such as coral and aragonite sands, which are going to have a high calcium carbonate level. Where did you get your sand? Here's a simple article about the various sands that are commonly used in aquariums. http://www.cichlid-forum.com/articles/sand.php Unless you have a decoration or other item that could be leaching hardness into your tank, I would strongly suspect the sand but then you mentioned that you had this issue before with your gravel. If it is the sand, now you have the questions on whether to keep it or not. Since removing sand is a LOT more work than removing gravel and since your tank is planted, you might just want to go with doing more frequent PWC's (partial water changes) and maybe adding a piece of driftwood to the tank. The good news is that a slowly rising pH is not really harmful to fish as much as a dropping pH, although drastic changes in either direction (not caused by CO2 levels during photosynthesis) can be harmful. In the future, you can save some money by NOT buying the Stress-this or Slime-that type products. They simply are NOT needed and provide little or no benefit to our tanks... other than adding another chemical pollutant to the closed ecosystem. If your plants need it, the Seachem Flourish is fine to use but is not always necessary either. All I add to my tanks is a pro-rata dose of dechlor during each PWC. I use API's Tap Water Conditioner since it's more concentrated than other brands for a lower cost.. 1ml treats 10G where most other dechlors need 5ml or even 10ml for 10G. I do have a portion of cuttlebone in each of my filters for slow dosing of calcium carbonates to the tanks but that's it for me as far as additives. No salt. No stress-this or slime-that stuff. No pH up, down or around junk. Just weekly 25% PWC's, gravel vacuuming and filter cleaning. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Jade Sent: Thursday, November 12, 2009 4:51 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Aquarium heater sedimentation? Lenny: IT's actually growing completely around the heater. The Ph of my tap is 7.1, after letting it sit. A friend of mine had recommended that to me awhile back. No I'm not adding any water hardeners and in fact I removed the gravel of my tank(replaced with natural sand) which was increasing the Ph, and added in driftwood. 8.0 is the lowest it seems to go. I do not have GH or KH tests... and unfortunately at present cannot afford to buy them. Steve: My parents had an aquarium for the longest, they never had this problem... though in spite of the meticulous care of my tank... it's always there. The only things I add to my tank are Stress Coat +, Stress Zyme (Once a week), and Flourish, though this was happening long before I had live plants. It happened in my past tanks as well... maybe the heater brand could be the problem? I had the same brand every time this happened, though I doubt the brand would be problematic it's a thought. I've scoured the internet for weeks and came up empty-handed. Obviously whatever this crap is, it isn't good for the heater I wouldn't think. When I can manage to have the funds to be able to get a new heater just in case this one cracks I will try to scrape off the...whatever it is. --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@...> wrote: > > OK. From looking at the picture, it looks like this stuff is growing > just on the front side of the heater facing the light of the tank... > right? If I am seeing it correctly, then this is probably some kind > of algae since it's only growing on the lighted side of the heater. > I've never seen one that prefers only the HOT temperatures of a heater though. > > As far as your pH goes, is this pH of 8.0 in your tank or right out > your tap? I have an article on my blog called "Find Your Tap Water > Baseline" and it's a good idea for everyone to do this and know what > happens to their tap water. Testing it right out the tap will not > give accurate numbers most of the time. The 48 hour baseline is a > more accurate number but folks also need to know their right out the > tap numbers as they might have to do smaller % PWC's if their > right-out-the-tap numbers are a LOT different than their 48 hour > baseline and/or actual tank numbers. I'm guessing you're not adding anything like crushed coral, other water hardener substances, etc... > or do you possibly have a substrate that might have something in it > that is leaching hardness into your water in the tank? The 48 hour > baseline numbers will tell us more. > > Do you have GH and KH tests? That will also give us more info. API > makes a combo kit for GH and KH that matches with the Master Test Kit > and/or other individual kits. If you do, let us know the 48 hour tap > water baseline numbers and your tank numbers. > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] > On Behalf Of Jade > Sent: Wednesday, November 11, 2009 8:59 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Aquarium heater sedimentation? > > > Lenny: > (answers in parenthesis) > > How long have you had your tank set up? (About two years now) > > Do you have this "brown substance) > on the gravel, other decorations, glass, etc? (No I do not) > > Give us more details about your tank. Size, stocking, fish species, > etc.(Size - 20 gal long, stocking 9 adult guppies and 2 adolescents.) > > Give us a little info on your fish keeping skills also. (I've been > raising live-bearers for the better part of 12 years now... clarify > skills?) > > What is your pH level and why do you think it is high? Contrary to > some of the bottles of crap that some stores sell, you do NOT need a > pH of 7.0 in order to keep fish and in fact, a higher or lower pH is > often better for many species of fish. > (My PH is 8.0, according to the water tester from API (Not the sticks!!! > Vials with the drops... noted far more accurate) I am well aware you > don't need a flat ph of 7.0 and in fact some species of freshwater > fish prefer high-end PH. Guppies themselves prefer about 7.5)) > > How did you crack your heater by cleaning it? Did you drop it or something? > I can't imagine scrubbing it with a brush would break it unless it > already had a fracture or stress crack. (Negative, I didn't drop it, I > was using a semi-dull knife to try to get the brown stuff off - the > same that is on this heater, and it simply just cracked.) > ------------ > > Steve: > Thanks for the tip, I'll try to give it a go when I can get the razor. > Right now I can't afford that much less a new heater. So I think I'll > hold off just a bit until I can afford BOTH, just in case, hehe. > > ------------- > Donna: > These unfortunately don't just brush away. Sometimes small, solid > chunks will fall off, but it's rare. > > --------- > To All : Took a to give you guys some reference as to what it looks like. > The brown thing on the top left is a lily pad, just so you know. See > photo link below. > > http://i352.photobucket.com/albums/r329/Tehzedaj/Picture60.jpg > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" > <GoldLenny@> > wrote: > > > > How long have you had your tank set up? Do you have this "brown > > substance) on the gravel, other decorations, glass, etc? > > > > Give us more details about your tank. Size, stocking, fish species, etc. > > Give us a little info on your fish keeping skills also. > > > > What is your pH level and why do you think it is high? Contrary to > > some of the bottles of crap that some stores sell, you do NOT need a > > pH of 7.0 in order to keep fish and in fact, a higher or lower pH is > > often better for many species of fish. > > > > How did you crack your heater by cleaning it? Did you drop it or > something? > > I can't imagine scrubbing it with a brush would break it unless it > > already had a fracture or stress crack. > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles > > referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, > > alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] > > On Behalf Of Jade > > Sent: Sunday, November 08, 2009 9:29 PM > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > Subject: [AquaticLife] Aquarium heater sedimentation? > > > > I have a hard light brown (tanish) substance covering the tube of my > > aquarium heater... is this sediment? I was wondering if that's > > what's causing my high Ph (there's absolutely nothing else in there > > that could do it...). How do I clean it off? I've had the problem before... > > and in attempts to clean it the heater actually cracked (thankfully > > it wasn't in the tank at the time.) > > > > Any ideas/suggestions/help would be appreciated :)

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 44514	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 11/13/2009
Subject: Re: 7 Over-the-Top Aquariums

Web Wanderings, Lenny, Web Wanderings. \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Lenny V. aka GoldLenny Sent: Friday, November 13, 2009 11:50 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] 7 Over-the-Top Aquariums Things that make you go Hmmmmm! I didn't know \\Steve// was such an avid reader of Women's Day magazine. Don't worry \\Steve//.... you're secret is safe with me. LOL Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Steve Szabo Sent: Friday, November 13, 2009 5:26 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] 7 Over-the-Top Aquariums http://www.womansday.com/Articles/Family-Lifestyle/Travel/7-Over-the-Top-Aqu ariums.html http://tinyurl.com/yjmb6ju \\Steve// ------------------------------------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. 74/`7.88.><((((:>.74/`7.88.74/`7.8><((((:> 8.74/`7.8. , .74/`7..><((((:> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <:((((><.74/`7.88.74/`7.8<:((((><8.74/`7.8. , .74/`7..<:((((><74/`7.88. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the home page. Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com to receive the digest, which includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com for the No E-Mail option where you will still be able to read messages on the group and post replies. Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com to receive individual e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 44515	From: Kathy	Date: 11/14/2009
Subject: has anyone else experienced this?

Pisces seems to be begging after I feed him....like he's asking for seconds. I know that giving him seconds could kill him, so I never do. But it's really cute to watch. Has anyone else had this happen with their bettas? Is this just something I'm reading into him, or is he actually begging for seconds? -Kathy

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 44516	From: erikaandnewton	Date: 11/14/2009
Subject: strong odor - reset

i'm going to try this again. i think in the process of trying to keep it short, i must have miscommunicated something: history of the frogs: set up @ old house: half full 33 gallon, assorted plants i couldnt keep alive, zoo med 501 filter(mini external canister.) various levels of guppies and shrimp. substrate was crushed granite. tank was set up from june 2006 to february 2009. no problems with tank february 2009 moved 33gal to parents house: brought most of the water and gravel siphonings with me, changed substrate to flourite in hopes it would help the plants and i liked the more natural color. tank was set up with no filter, performed water changes evey 1-3 weeks (probably closer to every 3 weeks, i hate the siphon and bucket method i needed to use there) occupants of tank still frogs guppies plants and shrimp. again no problems with the tank sept 2009- i move out. can only make a water change once during this time when i go to get the tank (based on phone records and stuff, probably around october 28th) it was gross, all the decorations were covered in black stuff and it reeked like marsh muck october 28th pickup occupants of tank- rinsed the gravel really really well (yes i know its not reccomended to do it that way, but its no different than stating up a new tank and i cant imagine what ever was causing the stench was GOOD for the frogs) toyed with the idea of leaving the black goo on the decorations, but since it could have been the source of the stench i opted to get rid of it. it also had this weird almost oily feel to it (no not slimey, oily) about a week ago i put the filter on it because i finally found all the parts. a few days ago the smell i thought would be gone is now back so, all my parameters are normal, i'm doing water changes every week,the water has the filter going. its at least 37 gallons of water for 2 itty bitty frogs and maybe 6 guppies so i know the tank isn't over loaded even with it being essentially a new tank. In my 20 years of keeping fish tanks (and yes a good amount of them doing it wrong) I have NEVER smelled anything like this (except when we pull the anchor up out of the inland bay and the mud is stuck to it). could flourite cause problems? I've never used it before. did my "helpful" father do something totally screwy to the original tank and i need to replace the decorations and the gravel? erika newark de usa

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 44517	From: Dora Smith	Date: 11/14/2009
Subject: Re: has anyone else experienced this?

LOL, everyone has experienced that, the little beggars! But you can't keep feeding them beyond what they eat in two or three minutes or whatever. Yours, Dora Smith Austin, TX tiggernut24@... ----- Original Message ----- From: "Kathy" <kl_whitney@...> To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Saturday, November 14, 2009 11:54 AM Subject: [AquaticLife] has anyone else experienced this? Pisces seems to be begging after I feed him....like he's asking for seconds. I know that giving him seconds could kill him, so I never do. But it's really cute to watch. Has anyone else had this happen with their bettas? Is this just something I'm reading into him, or is he actually begging for seconds? -Kathy ------------------------------------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the home page. Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com to receive the digest, which includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com for the No E-Mail option where you will still be able to read messages on the group and post replies. Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com to receive individual e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 44518	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 11/14/2009
Subject: Re: has anyone else experienced this?

Kathy, That is typical behavior. Like most guys, he spends the entire day think of sex, sports, and food. Well, take back the sports thing, he doesn't know anything about sports. \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Kathy Sent: Saturday, November 14, 2009 12:54 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] has anyone else experienced this? Pisces seems to be begging after I feed him....like he's asking for seconds. I know that giving him seconds could kill him, so I never do. But it's really cute to watch. Has anyone else had this happen with their bettas? Is this just something I'm reading into him, or is he actually begging for seconds? -Kathy

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 44519	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 11/14/2009
Subject: Re: has anyone else experienced this?

Well, do you think you are feeding him enough for firsts? Why do you think that giving him seconds could kill him? I'm probably of a different mindset than much of what you'll read on the net and in forums. Read on for my reasons. One *problem* that many people fall into is the once or twice a day feeding schedule. While this may be an appropriate schedule for adult fish, fry, baby fish and juvenile fish are still growing and have much faster metabolisms so they need to be fed more frequently. Just like a newborn baby cries for feeding every few hours, then young kids (who are not computer or TV couch potatoes) can eat like crazy and grow like crazy and stay skinny but then when they reach adulthood, if they eat like crazy, they still grow like crazy but in width rather than height. :-( That said, since your Betta is probably still considered a juvenile (I think they are around 4-6 mos. old when sold at retail... although I've seen reports that they are closer to a year old), I would feed him several (3-4) times a day, but smaller meals, just enough that he eats it all in a minute or two. I know you will see the 3 minute or 5 minute suggestion on different sites for feeding fish but for Bettas, where it's almost like you are hand feeding them since they are the only fish in the tank, you can tell when they are hungry and gobble down the first bite and then slow down on subsequent bites as they fill up. Also, since Bettas are so compacted (see a Betta anatomy chart), their stomachs are really small so they fill up quick... but that also means it's such a small amount of food that it's quickly used. Of course, feeding more means pooping more... and this might be a reason some folks perpetuate the limited feeding of their fish.... so they do not have to clean the tank as often (or to keep the water quality better in often overstocked tanks)... and I've written in the past that this would be analogous to not feeding a human baby as often so you don't have to change their diapers... and folks shouldn't do that either. A human baby and child, just like our fry and juvi fish, need adequate nutrition to grow up to be healthy adults. If it means more PWC's, then that is what needs to be done. Also, I guess, with a Betta in a small quart or half-gallon sized bowl, that can't really swim around much, they do not need as much food since they expend little energy but in your case, Pisces has a much larger home and will be able to swim around more (get more exercise) so eating more would not be unhealthy to him compared to a Betta in a small bowl. Further, in your case, your 4G bowl is not overstocked (like a quart or half-gallon sized bowl would be) and I know you're willing to do the necessary once or twice weekly 25% PWC's and gravel vacuuming to keep the water quality up so you can feel more comfortable about properly feeding Pisces. You need to take some pics of your set-up and show everyone how well you did with the decorations and aquascaping your new plants. How are your new plants doing? I know you do not have aquarium lighting and have to rely on them getting light from a nearby window so you'll have to learn how much lighting to give them so the plants do well but you do not get algae issues... and NO direct sun on your bowl as that could heat up the water. I wish I could tell you how much indirect/diffused lighting to give the plants but I've never tried natural lighting so I have no clue. You'll just have to experiment with how close you keep the bowl to the window so it gets enough light, but not too much light and NO direct sunlight hitting the bowl. It's OK if sun beams, if you get any, are on either side of the bowl... just not directly on the bowl. All this said, if feeding fluffy foods (full of air) or freeze-dried foods like blood worms, you should soak the foods for a minute or two (or more if needed) so the air is out of the food and/or the freeze dried foods are rehydrated and then only feed enough at a time that it can eat and be satisfied. As I'm sure we've previously written, DO NOT feed most fish foods that will put too much air in their systems or foods that might expand once inside the fish (like a freeze dried food will do if not rehydrated first) as these can cause digestive issues, bloating, etc. The last Betta that I had, which I rescued from a flooded home after Katrina, came with several foods, one of which was Aqua Culture Betta Pellet Food (probably not the best stuff but he liked it... the ingredients start off with "Fish Meal, Wheat flour, Soy flour,..." so I know it's not a high quality food and Bettas are carnivores so the Fish Meal is an OK ingredient but the other stuff isn't normally in their diet but didn't seem to cause him any digestive issues). The pellets were little pellets about the size of pin head (not the pin tip, but the pin head on a pinning pin, not a sewing pin.. lol.. if any of that makes sense) and my Betta would eat a couple to several of them each feeding and then I could tell he was full. I tried to only feed him what I could see him eat so wasted/missed food didn't sink down into the gravel. The pellets floated if gently dropped onto the surface of the water but sometimes one would sink and if he saw it, he would chase it and usually get it before it got down to the gravel. I fed him twice a day since he was an adult and would only put one pellet at a time on the surface of the water. I also had some of the freeze dried blood worms and freeze dried shrimp and I would occasionally give him a small piece of one of those as a snack but he really liked the pellets much more. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Kathy Sent: Saturday, November 14, 2009 11:54 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] has anyone else experienced this? Pisces seems to be begging after I feed him....like he's asking for seconds. I know that giving him seconds could kill him, so I never do. But it's really cute to watch. Has anyone else had this happen with their bettas? Is this just something I'm reading into him, or is he actually begging for seconds? -Kathy

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 44520	From: Kathy	Date: 11/14/2009
Subject: Re: has anyone else experienced this?

I give him a portion about the size of his eye, because that's how big I've been told his stomach is. That translates to a tiny pinch of flakes or three to five bloodworms. He gobbles it right down. I feed him shortly after I get up in the mornings, we have a regular schedule and sometimes he appears confused when I sleep in on weekends. Should I give him dinner in addition to breakfast? Would that help, since he, according to your logic, burns more calories than the average betta? Oh, and I've been told by many sources that overfeeding causes constipation, bloating, and possibly death in bettas. Guess I didn't know what overfeeding was for my little guy....I thought he only needed one eye-sized meal per day. He's about 2.25 inches long (including tail), is that a juvinile size? If he's a juvinile, how many times a day do I feed him? -Kathy --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@...> wrote: > > Well, do you think you are feeding him enough for firsts? Why do you think > that giving him seconds could kill him? I'm probably of a different mindset > than much of what you'll read on the net and in forums. Read on for my > reasons. > > One *problem* that many people fall into is the once or twice a day feeding > schedule. While this may be an appropriate schedule for adult fish, fry, > baby fish and juvenile fish are still growing and have much faster > metabolisms so they need to be fed more frequently. Just like a newborn > baby cries for feeding every few hours, then young kids (who are not > computer or TV couch potatoes) can eat like crazy and grow like crazy and > stay skinny but then when they reach adulthood, if they eat like crazy, they > still grow like crazy but in width rather than height. :-( > > That said, since your Betta is probably still considered a juvenile (I think > they are around 4-6 mos. old when sold at retail... although I've seen > reports that they are closer to a year old), I would feed him several (3-4) > times a day, but smaller meals, just enough that he eats it all in a minute > or two. I know you will see the 3 minute or 5 minute suggestion on > different sites for feeding fish but for Bettas, where it's almost like you > are hand feeding them since they are the only fish in the tank, you can tell > when they are hungry and gobble down the first bite and then slow down on > subsequent bites as they fill up. Also, since Bettas are so compacted (see > a Betta anatomy chart), their stomachs are really small so they fill up > quick... but that also means it's such a small amount of food that it's > quickly used. > > Of course, feeding more means pooping more... and this might be a reason > some folks perpetuate the limited feeding of their fish.... so they do not > have to clean the tank as often (or to keep the water quality better in > often overstocked tanks)... and I've written in the past that this would be > analogous to not feeding a human baby as often so you don't have to change > their diapers... and folks shouldn't do that either. A human baby and > child, just like our fry and juvi fish, need adequate nutrition to grow up > to be healthy adults. > > If it means more PWC's, then that is what needs to be done. > > Also, I guess, with a Betta in a small quart or half-gallon sized bowl, that > can't really swim around much, they do not need as much food since they > expend little energy but in your case, Pisces has a much larger home and > will be able to swim around more (get more exercise) so eating more would > not be unhealthy to him compared to a Betta in a small bowl. > > Further, in your case, your 4G bowl is not overstocked (like a quart or > half-gallon sized bowl would be) and I know you're willing to do the > necessary once or twice weekly 25% PWC's and gravel vacuuming to keep the > water quality up so you can feel more comfortable about properly feeding > Pisces. > > You need to take some pics of your set-up and show everyone how well you did > with the decorations and aquascaping your new plants. How are your new > plants doing? I know you do not have aquarium lighting and have to rely on > them getting light from a nearby window so you'll have to learn how much > lighting to give them so the plants do well but you do not get algae > issues... and NO direct sun on your bowl as that could heat up the water. I > wish I could tell you how much indirect/diffused lighting to give the plants > but I've never tried natural lighting so I have no clue. You'll just have > to experiment with how close you keep the bowl to the window so it gets > enough light, but not too much light and NO direct sunlight hitting the > bowl. It's OK if sun beams, if you get any, are on either side of the > bowl... just not directly on the bowl. > > All this said, if feeding fluffy foods (full of air) or freeze-dried foods > like blood worms, you should soak the foods for a minute or two (or more if > needed) so the air is out of the food and/or the freeze dried foods are > rehydrated and then only feed enough at a time that it can eat and be > satisfied. As I'm sure we've previously written, DO NOT feed most fish > foods that will put too much air in their systems or foods that might expand > once inside the fish (like a freeze dried food will do if not rehydrated > first) as these can cause digestive issues, bloating, etc. > > The last Betta that I had, which I rescued from a flooded home after > Katrina, came with several foods, one of which was Aqua Culture Betta Pellet > Food (probably not the best stuff but he liked it... the ingredients start > off with "Fish Meal, Wheat flour, Soy flour,..." so I know it's not a high > quality food and Bettas are carnivores so the Fish Meal is an OK ingredient > but the other stuff isn't normally in their diet but didn't seem to cause > him any digestive issues). The pellets were little pellets about the size > of pin head (not the pin tip, but the pin head on a pinning pin, not a > sewing pin.. lol.. if any of that makes sense) and my Betta would eat a > couple to several of them each feeding and then I could tell he was full. I > tried to only feed him what I could see him eat so wasted/missed food didn't > sink down into the gravel. The pellets floated if gently dropped onto the > surface of the water but sometimes one would sink and if he saw it, he would > chase it and usually get it before it got down to the gravel. I fed him > twice a day since he was an adult and would only put one pellet at a time on > the surface of the water. I also had some of the freeze dried blood worms > and freeze dried shrimp and I would occasionally give him a small piece of > one of those as a snack but he really liked the pellets much more. > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right > side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) > > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On > Behalf Of Kathy > Sent: Saturday, November 14, 2009 11:54 AM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Subject: [AquaticLife] has anyone else experienced this? > > Pisces seems to be begging after I feed him....like he's asking for seconds. > I know that giving him seconds could kill him, so I never do. But it's > really cute to watch. Has anyone else had this happen with their bettas? > Is this just something I'm reading into him, or is he actually begging for > seconds? > -Kathy >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 44521	From: Lainey Alexander	Date: 11/14/2009
Subject: (Not) catching Siamese Algae Eaters

Hi Everyone - I found a really high quality store with enormous tanks/displays that will take my five Siamese AEs so that my 37g tank will not become too crowded. I set aside an afternoon to take them to the store, over two hours away - packed the car, got a bucket ready for transporting them, made tea for the ride, etc etc etc - what a joke! When I went to catch them they instantly disappeared into my plant beds. There were two of us working at it, and it wasn't even close to possible to get the net near one of the five. I have determined that I will probably have to uproot all of my plants, catch the SAEs, replant the entire tank and then somehow have time to get to the store. The store guys suggested that I bait a net with food and try to catch them that way. Of course I would need an empty tank for holding them as I'm sure that process would take days. Does anyone have any other ideas that might be better? Thanks, Lainey http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 44522	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 11/14/2009
Subject: Re: has anyone else experienced this?

2.25", including tail is still very small... I'm guessing. Do not include the tail when measuring fish, for the most part, in the future. Two identical sized fish could have tails or differing lengths if one has fancy fins and the other has standard fins... but they are still the same sized fish. I guess an analogy would be like BIG hair on a girl (70's and 80's) or a Mohawk on a guy... it doesn't really make you any taller just because your hair sticks up 6" or 12" high. Try to get a reasonably close measurement of just the fish's body, from tip of nose to the base of the tail and that would be your fish's length. There is another term called Total Length and that would include the tail but the TL is probably used more for sport fishing measurements and what we can keep or have to throw back, when catching fish. If you lay a ruler across the top of the bowl, then during feeding times, when he's up near the surface, you can get a better estimate than looking from the side, since the bowl may magnify his size. It's not a bad idea to keep a log of weekly or monthly measurements so you can see how it's growing (kind of like kids with the marks on the door frames) since you see it every day, you will not really notice it getting bigger but your measurements would clarify it's actual growth. Like I said in my previous post, since your guy is still a juvi, I would feed him at least three times a day, just slightly smaller meals with each feeding unless you see him still eating it all up quickly and then you could continue to feed him the same amount you are feeding him with each meal right now. Once a day is NOT enough for your guy right now... this could be why he's begging you a lot more. If he was a baby, he'd be crying and screaming for food. Even, in another six months or so, as an adult, I would still feed twice a day. In the wild, while they may not enjoy timed meals or portion sizes, most fish spend most of their waking moments looking for food (or like \\Steve// said, sex... lol) This is what they do... well at least male fish. As far as sports, I'm betting that some fish also participate and watch sports also... at least they watch the sport fishermen (or would that be fisherperson nowadays?). They sure do like to try and steal the bait off the hook without getting caught and they probably hang around laughing their tailfins off when they get away with my bait.... but they sure change their attitude when I start to light that 1/4'er stick of dynamite... now that's fishing! Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Kathy Sent: Saturday, November 14, 2009 1:23 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: has anyone else experienced this? I give him a portion about the size of his eye, because that's how big I've been told his stomach is. That translates to a tiny pinch of flakes or three to five bloodworms. He gobbles it right down. I feed him shortly after I get up in the mornings, we have a regular schedule and sometimes he appears confused when I sleep in on weekends. Should I give him dinner in addition to breakfast? Would that help, since he, according to your logic, burns more calories than the average betta? Oh, and I've been told by many sources that overfeeding causes constipation, bloating, and possibly death in bettas. Guess I didn't know what overfeeding was for my little guy....I thought he only needed one eye-sized meal per day. He's about 2.25 inches long (including tail), is that a juvinile size? If he's a juvinile, how many times a day do I feed him? -Kathy --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@...> wrote: > > Well, do you think you are feeding him enough for firsts? Why do you > think that giving him seconds could kill him? I'm probably of a > different mindset than much of what you'll read on the net and in > forums. Read on for my reasons. > > One *problem* that many people fall into is the once or twice a day > feeding schedule. While this may be an appropriate schedule for adult > fish, fry, baby fish and juvenile fish are still growing and have much > faster metabolisms so they need to be fed more frequently. Just like > a newborn baby cries for feeding every few hours, then young kids (who > are not computer or TV couch potatoes) can eat like crazy and grow > like crazy and stay skinny but then when they reach adulthood, if they > eat like crazy, they still grow like crazy but in width rather than > height. :-( > > That said, since your Betta is probably still considered a juvenile (I > think they are around 4-6 mos. old when sold at retail... although > I've seen reports that they are closer to a year old), I would feed > him several (3-4) times a day, but smaller meals, just enough that he > eats it all in a minute or two. I know you will see the 3 minute or 5 > minute suggestion on different sites for feeding fish but for Bettas, > where it's almost like you are hand feeding them since they are the > only fish in the tank, you can tell when they are hungry and gobble > down the first bite and then slow down on subsequent bites as they > fill up. Also, since Bettas are so compacted (see a Betta anatomy > chart), their stomachs are really small so they fill up quick... but > that also means it's such a small amount of food that it's quickly used. > > Of course, feeding more means pooping more... and this might be a > reason some folks perpetuate the limited feeding of their fish.... so > they do not have to clean the tank as often (or to keep the water > quality better in often overstocked tanks)... and I've written in the > past that this would be analogous to not feeding a human baby as often > so you don't have to change their diapers... and folks shouldn't do > that either. A human baby and child, just like our fry and juvi fish, > need adequate nutrition to grow up to be healthy adults. > > If it means more PWC's, then that is what needs to be done. > > Also, I guess, with a Betta in a small quart or half-gallon sized > bowl, that can't really swim around much, they do not need as much > food since they expend little energy but in your case, Pisces has a > much larger home and will be able to swim around more (get more > exercise) so eating more would not be unhealthy to him compared to a Betta in a small bowl. > > Further, in your case, your 4G bowl is not overstocked (like a quart > or half-gallon sized bowl would be) and I know you're willing to do > the necessary once or twice weekly 25% PWC's and gravel vacuuming to > keep the water quality up so you can feel more comfortable about > properly feeding Pisces. > > You need to take some pics of your set-up and show everyone how well > you did with the decorations and aquascaping your new plants. How are > your new plants doing? I know you do not have aquarium lighting and > have to rely on them getting light from a nearby window so you'll have > to learn how much lighting to give them so the plants do well but you > do not get algae issues... and NO direct sun on your bowl as that > could heat up the water. I wish I could tell you how much > indirect/diffused lighting to give the plants but I've never tried > natural lighting so I have no clue. You'll just have to experiment > with how close you keep the bowl to the window so it gets enough > light, but not too much light and NO direct sunlight hitting the bowl. > It's OK if sun beams, if you get any, are on either side of the bowl... just not directly on the bowl. > > All this said, if feeding fluffy foods (full of air) or freeze-dried > foods like blood worms, you should soak the foods for a minute or two > (or more if > needed) so the air is out of the food and/or the freeze dried foods > are rehydrated and then only feed enough at a time that it can eat and > be satisfied. As I'm sure we've previously written, DO NOT feed most > fish foods that will put too much air in their systems or foods that > might expand once inside the fish (like a freeze dried food will do if > not rehydrated > first) as these can cause digestive issues, bloating, etc. > > The last Betta that I had, which I rescued from a flooded home after > Katrina, came with several foods, one of which was Aqua Culture Betta > Pellet Food (probably not the best stuff but he liked it... the > ingredients start off with "Fish Meal, Wheat flour, Soy flour,..." so > I know it's not a high quality food and Bettas are carnivores so the > Fish Meal is an OK ingredient but the other stuff isn't normally in > their diet but didn't seem to cause him any digestive issues). The > pellets were little pellets about the size of pin head (not the pin > tip, but the pin head on a pinning pin, not a sewing pin.. lol.. if > any of that makes sense) and my Betta would eat a couple to several of > them each feeding and then I could tell he was full. I tried to only > feed him what I could see him eat so wasted/missed food didn't sink > down into the gravel. The pellets floated if gently dropped onto the > surface of the water but sometimes one would sink and if he saw it, he > would chase it and usually get it before it got down to the gravel. I > fed him twice a day since he was an adult and would only put one > pellet at a time on the surface of the water. I also had some of the > freeze dried blood worms and freeze dried shrimp and I would occasionally give him a small piece of one of those as a snack but he really liked the pellets much more. > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles > referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically > under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) > > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] > On Behalf Of Kathy > Sent: Saturday, November 14, 2009 11:54 AM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Subject: [AquaticLife] has anyone else experienced this? > > Pisces seems to be begging after I feed him....like he's asking for seconds. > I know that giving him seconds could kill him, so I never do. But > it's really cute to watch. Has anyone else had this happen with their bettas? > Is this just something I'm reading into him, or is he actually begging > for seconds? > -Kathy

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 44523	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 11/14/2009
Subject: Re: (Not) catching Siamese Algae Eaters

Here's how I catch fish in a planted tank (works for unplanted tanks also). Of course, this method works best when you are trying to catch all the fish in a tank but it also works for selective fishing. Don't feed them for a day or two so they're hungrier than usual. Then take your net and put some food (preferably a sinking algae wafer or something like that, which lasts a long time, doesn't dissolve quickly and doesn't go floating off into the tank) into the net and put it in the tank. One by one, various fish will get brave (or rather hungry and stupid) enough to swim into the net for a nibble. Be patient until one of the SAE's do it, then swoosh! One down, four to go. If you do have a second bucket handy, you could also do this to the fish that are not the SAE's and place them in the second bucket to be put back in the tank once you've gotten all of the SAE's out of it. At least this gets them out the way while you are fishing for the SAE's. I've emptied 20G tanks to 55G tanks of all of the fish in 15-30 minutes using this method. If the fish are hungry, they WILL swim right into the net. Even the ones that you might miss with a swoosh... and they dart off will be back in a few minutes for another nibble. Some fish just don't learn! :-P Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Lainey Alexander Sent: Saturday, November 14, 2009 1:47 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] (Not) catching Siamese Algae Eaters Hi Everyone - I found a really high quality store with enormous tanks/displays that will take my five Siamese AEs so that my 37g tank will not become too crowded. I set aside an afternoon to take them to the store, over two hours away - packed the car, got a bucket ready for transporting them, made tea for the ride, etc etc etc - what a joke! When I went to catch them they instantly disappeared into my plant beds. There were two of us working at it, and it wasn't even close to possible to get the net near one of the five. I have determined that I will probably have to uproot all of my plants, catch the SAEs, replant the entire tank and then somehow have time to get to the store. The store guys suggested that I bait a net with food and try to catch them that way. Of course I would need an empty tank for holding them as I'm sure that process would take days. Does anyone have any other ideas that might be better? Thanks, Lainey http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 44524	From: Menagerie_Manager	Date: 11/14/2009
Subject: Re: (Not) catching Siamese Algae Eaters

Not a fish expert, here, but what if you made the catching net large and stationery and then made like you were trying to catch them with a smaller net? You could even put some inviting hiding spots in the larger net. DebR and the Three Goldfish (CB, Lucille, and Raven) ----- Original Message ----- From: "Lainey Alexander" <lainealex@...> To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Saturday, November 14, 2009 2:46 PM Subject: [AquaticLife] (Not) catching Siamese Algae Eaters Hi Everyone - I found a really high quality store with enormous tanks/displays that will take my five Siamese AEs so that my 37g tank will not become too crowded. I set aside an afternoon to take them to the store, over two hours away - packed the car, got a bucket ready for transporting them, made tea for the ride, etc etc etc - what a joke! When I went to catch them they instantly disappeared into my plant beds. There were two of us working at it, and it wasn't even close to possible to get the net near one of the five. I have determined that I will probably have to uproot all of my plants, catch the SAEs, replant the entire tank and then somehow have time to get to the store. The store guys suggested that I bait a net with food and try to catch them that way. Of course I would need an empty tank for holding them as I'm sure that process would take days. Does anyone have any other ideas that might be better? Thanks, Lainey http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] ------------------------------------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the home page. Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com to receive the digest, which includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com for the No E-Mail option where you will still be able to read messages on the group and post replies. Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com to receive individual e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 44525	From: greychildren	Date: 11/14/2009
Subject: Big Poppa's Algae Issue (was Re: Plants growing black hair - eek.)

3 days black out still green water now my plants are dieying PH 7.0 KH 12 Gh 5 Amonia 0.1 Nitrate 2.0 Nitrite 0 --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@...> wrote: > > DO NOT use the AlgaeFix product. All it will do is kill off the algae (harm > your plants and possibly poison your fish), causing further pollution > problems in your tank. As Amber said, something caused an imbalance in your > system. Algae thrives when there is too much of one of the three things > needed for plants... light, nutrients and CO2. If all three are in balance, > the plants should do well and there should not be enough nutrients left over > to feed a green water algae bloom but if one gets too far out of whack, then > the algae can become a problem. DO NOT do anything drastic at this time, as > that will also cause an imbalance and possibly cause even more problems or > harm your plants. Slowly and gradually, doing more frequent PWC's, slowly > cutting back on the lighting and doing better gravel vacuuming and filter > maintenance will slowly get things back to normal. If, after a couple of > weeks, things are not back to normal, then a 3-day total blackout has worked > for some. > > As usual, what are your water parameters. Give us some history on them > also. What were they before the algae bloom and what are they now, before > and after each PWC... and your tap water 48 hour baseline numbers. > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right > side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) > > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On > Behalf Of Amber Berglund > Sent: Wednesday, November 11, 2009 9:08 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: Plants growing black hair - eek. > > How old is this tank? Did you add anything new? Fertilizers for plants, new > lighting, etc? > Green water should go away (very very slowly) on it's own, as long as you > lower the lighting timeframe and such that you have already done. > There is NO quick fix for this. > You can do more PWC's but sometimes that can cause more problems than fix > the water because it can actually cause the algae to grow faster, rather > than get rid of it. > Let us know if you have changed anything recently for this to happen. > > Amber > > biG poppa wrote: > > > > Help Help hi guys i have green water i have tried it all move the > > lights up 4 inches, water changes all the water paremeters are > > fine........my next option is Algeafix by API...I have also lower the > > time the lights are on...........Added an air stone and a power > > jet..this is my 55g set up its floresent green....... >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 44526	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 11/14/2009
Subject: Re: Big Poppa's Algae Issue (was Re: Plants growing black hair - ee

I didn't say to do the 3-day blackout yet. I said, "If, after a couple of weeks, things are not back to normal, then a 3-day total blackout has worked for some." I specifically said, "DO NOT do anything drastic at this time". Re-read my reply and SLOWLY start implementing the suggestions below. Are you dosing your tank with anything other than a basic dechlor? Your KH level is on the high end but not extreme. What are your tap water baseline numbers in comparison to your tank numbers? Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of greychildren Sent: Saturday, November 14, 2009 3:47 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Big Poppa's Algae Issue (was Re: Plants growing black hair - eek.) 3 days black out still green water now my plants are dieying PH 7.0 KH 12 Gh 5 Amonia 0.1 Nitrate 2.0 Nitrite 0 --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@...> wrote: > > DO NOT use the AlgaeFix product. All it will do is kill off the algae > (harm your plants and possibly poison your fish), causing further > pollution problems in your tank. As Amber said, something caused an > imbalance in your system. Algae thrives when there is too much of one > of the three things needed for plants... light, nutrients and CO2. If > all three are in balance, the plants should do well and there should > not be enough nutrients left over to feed a green water algae bloom > but if one gets too far out of whack, then the algae can become a > problem. DO NOT do anything drastic at this time, as that will also > cause an imbalance and possibly cause even more problems or harm your > plants. Slowly and gradually, doing more frequent PWC's, slowly > cutting back on the lighting and doing better gravel vacuuming and > filter maintenance will slowly get things back to normal. >If, after a couple of weeks, things are not back to normal, then a 3-day total blackout has worked for some. > > As usual, what are your water parameters. Give us some history on > them also. What were they before the algae bloom and what are they > now, before and after each PWC... and your tap water 48 hour baseline numbers. > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles > referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically > under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) > > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] > On Behalf Of Amber Berglund > Sent: Wednesday, November 11, 2009 9:08 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: Plants growing black hair - eek. > > How old is this tank? Did you add anything new? Fertilizers for > plants, new lighting, etc? > Green water should go away (very very slowly) on it's own, as long as > you lower the lighting timeframe and such that you have already done. > There is NO quick fix for this. > You can do more PWC's but sometimes that can cause more problems than > fix the water because it can actually cause the algae to grow faster, > rather than get rid of it. > Let us know if you have changed anything recently for this to happen. > > Amber > > biG poppa wrote: > > > > Help Help hi guys i have green water i have tried it all move the > > lights up 4 inches, water changes all the water paremeters are > > fine........my next option is Algeafix by API...I have also lower > > the time the lights are on...........Added an air stone and a power > > jet..this is my 55g set up its floresent green....... > ------------------------------------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the home page. Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com to receive the digest, which includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com for the No E-Mail option where you will still be able to read messages on the group and post replies. Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com to receive individual e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 44527	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 11/14/2009
Subject: Re: strong odor - reset

How many live plants do you have in the tank? Is it heavily planted or just lightly planted in the flourite? Your tank is going to be cycling unless the flourite carried live bacteria somehow (I don't use it, so not sure if it has bacteria in it, but I doubt it myself). Since you heavily rinsed your old gravel you would have killed off most of your old nitrifying bacteria, and if you heavily cleaned the decorations that would also kill the bacteria, so your tank is going to be in a whole new cycle like it's a brand new tank again. You need to check the ammonia, nitrite, and nitrates for us so we can tell you for sure, but I'm almost positive that it should be in a new cycle with all the heavy cleaning you did. You say parameters are normal, is that the ammonia, nitrite and nitrates? By normal do you mean 0 for ammonia, 0 for nitrite, and a low number for nitrates? That would be "normal" for an already cycled tank, but a cycling tank should show numbers in the ammonia, nitrite, and eventually nitrates at the end of the cycle. Does the filter have a cartridge or something you rinse off when you do your water changes? (I didn't see an answer to this before, so I'm re-asking, sorry if you answered and I missed it). Amber erikaandnewton wrote: > > i'm going to try this again. i think in the process of trying to keep > it short, i must have miscommunicated something: > > history of the frogs: > > set up @ old house: half full 33 gallon, assorted plants i couldnt > keep alive, zoo med 501 filter(mini external canister.) various levels > of guppies and shrimp. substrate was crushed granite. tank was set up > from june 2006 to february 2009. no problems with tank > > february 2009 moved 33gal to parents house: brought most of the water > and gravel siphonings with me, changed substrate to flourite in hopes > it would help the plants and i liked the more natural color. tank was > set up with no filter, performed water changes evey 1-3 weeks > (probably closer to every 3 weeks, i hate the siphon and bucket method > i needed to use there) occupants of tank still frogs guppies plants > and shrimp. again no problems with the tank > > sept 2009- i move out. can only make a water change once during this > time when i go to get the tank (based on phone records and stuff, > probably around october 28th) it was gross, all the decorations were > covered in black stuff and it reeked like marsh muck > > october 28th pickup occupants of tank- rinsed the gravel really really > well (yes i know its not reccomended to do it that way, but its no > different than stating up a new tank and i cant imagine what ever was > causing the stench was GOOD for the frogs) toyed with the idea of > leaving the black goo on the decorations, but since it could have been > the source of the stench i opted to get rid of it. it also had this > weird almost oily feel to it (no not slimey, oily) > > about a week ago i put the filter on it because i finally found all > the parts. a few days ago the smell i thought would be gone is now back > > so, all my parameters are normal, i'm doing water changes every > week,the water has the filter going. its at least 37 gallons of water > for 2 itty bitty frogs and maybe 6 guppies so i know the tank isn't > over loaded even with it being essentially a new tank. In my 20 years > of keeping fish tanks (and yes a good amount of them doing it wrong) I > have NEVER smelled anything like this (except when we pull the anchor > up out of the inland bay and the mud is stuck to it). could flourite > cause problems? I've never used it before. did my "helpful" father do > something totally screwy to the original tank and i need to replace > the decorations and the gravel? > > erika newark de usa > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 44528	From: Kathy	Date: 11/14/2009
Subject: Re: has anyone else experienced this?

ok, I'll start giving him 'dinner' too. like right before I go to bed, that would be an easy time to remember. So I'll get that started tonight. -Kathy --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@...> wrote: > > 2.25", including tail is still very small... I'm guessing. Do not include > the tail when measuring fish, for the most part, in the future. Two > identical sized fish could have tails or differing lengths if one has fancy > fins and the other has standard fins... but they are still the same sized > fish. I guess an analogy would be like BIG hair on a girl (70's and 80's) > or a Mohawk on a guy... it doesn't really make you any taller just because > your hair sticks up 6" or 12" high. > > Try to get a reasonably close measurement of just the fish's body, from tip > of nose to the base of the tail and that would be your fish's length. There > is another term called Total Length and that would include the tail but the > TL is probably used more for sport fishing measurements and what we can keep > or have to throw back, when catching fish. If you lay a ruler across the > top of the bowl, then during feeding times, when he's up near the surface, > you can get a better estimate than looking from the side, since the bowl may > magnify his size. It's not a bad idea to keep a log of weekly or monthly > measurements so you can see how it's growing (kind of like kids with the > marks on the door frames) since you see it every day, you will not really > notice it getting bigger but your measurements would clarify it's actual > growth. > > Like I said in my previous post, since your guy is still a juvi, I would > feed him at least three times a day, just slightly smaller meals with each > feeding unless you see him still eating it all up quickly and then you could > continue to feed him the same amount you are feeding him with each meal > right now. Once a day is NOT enough for your guy right now... this could be > why he's begging you a lot more. If he was a baby, he'd be crying and > screaming for food. Even, in another six months or so, as an adult, I would > still feed twice a day. In the wild, while they may not enjoy timed meals > or portion sizes, most fish spend most of their waking moments looking for > food (or like \\Steve// said, sex... lol) This is what they do... well at > least male fish. As far as sports, I'm betting that some fish also > participate and watch sports also... at least they watch the sport fishermen > (or would that be fisherperson nowadays?). They sure do like to try and > steal the bait off the hook without getting caught and they probably hang > around laughing their tailfins off when they get away with my bait.... but > they sure change their attitude when I start to light that 1/4'er stick of > dynamite... now that's fishing! > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right > side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) > > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On > Behalf Of Kathy > Sent: Saturday, November 14, 2009 1:23 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: has anyone else experienced this? > > I give him a portion about the size of his eye, because that's how big I've > been told his stomach is. That translates to a tiny pinch of flakes or > three to five bloodworms. He gobbles it right down. I feed him shortly > after I get up in the mornings, we have a regular schedule and sometimes he > appears confused when I sleep in on weekends. Should I give him dinner in > addition to breakfast? Would that help, since he, according to your logic, > burns more calories than the average betta? > Oh, and I've been told by many sources that overfeeding causes constipation, > bloating, and possibly death in bettas. Guess I didn't know what > overfeeding was for my little guy....I thought he only needed one eye-sized > meal per day. > He's about 2.25 inches long (including tail), is that a juvinile size? If > he's a juvinile, how many times a day do I feed him? > -Kathy > > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@> > wrote: > > > > Well, do you think you are feeding him enough for firsts? Why do you > > think that giving him seconds could kill him? I'm probably of a > > different mindset than much of what you'll read on the net and in > > forums. Read on for my reasons. > > > > One *problem* that many people fall into is the once or twice a day > > feeding schedule. While this may be an appropriate schedule for adult > > fish, fry, baby fish and juvenile fish are still growing and have much > > faster metabolisms so they need to be fed more frequently. Just like > > a newborn baby cries for feeding every few hours, then young kids (who > > are not computer or TV couch potatoes) can eat like crazy and grow > > like crazy and stay skinny but then when they reach adulthood, if they > > eat like crazy, they still grow like crazy but in width rather than > > height. :-( > > > > That said, since your Betta is probably still considered a juvenile (I > > think they are around 4-6 mos. old when sold at retail... although > > I've seen reports that they are closer to a year old), I would feed > > him several (3-4) times a day, but smaller meals, just enough that he > > eats it all in a minute or two. I know you will see the 3 minute or 5 > > minute suggestion on different sites for feeding fish but for Bettas, > > where it's almost like you are hand feeding them since they are the > > only fish in the tank, you can tell when they are hungry and gobble > > down the first bite and then slow down on subsequent bites as they > > fill up. Also, since Bettas are so compacted (see a Betta anatomy > > chart), their stomachs are really small so they fill up quick... but > > that also means it's such a small amount of food that it's quickly used. > > > > Of course, feeding more means pooping more... and this might be a > > reason some folks perpetuate the limited feeding of their fish.... so > > they do not have to clean the tank as often (or to keep the water > > quality better in often overstocked tanks)... and I've written in the > > past that this would be analogous to not feeding a human baby as often > > so you don't have to change their diapers... and folks shouldn't do > > that either. A human baby and child, just like our fry and juvi fish, > > need adequate nutrition to grow up to be healthy adults. > > > > If it means more PWC's, then that is what needs to be done. > > > > Also, I guess, with a Betta in a small quart or half-gallon sized > > bowl, that can't really swim around much, they do not need as much > > food since they expend little energy but in your case, Pisces has a > > much larger home and will be able to swim around more (get more > > exercise) so eating more would not be unhealthy to him compared to a Betta > in a small bowl. > > > > Further, in your case, your 4G bowl is not overstocked (like a quart > > or half-gallon sized bowl would be) and I know you're willing to do > > the necessary once or twice weekly 25% PWC's and gravel vacuuming to > > keep the water quality up so you can feel more comfortable about > > properly feeding Pisces. > > > > You need to take some pics of your set-up and show everyone how well > > you did with the decorations and aquascaping your new plants. How are > > your new plants doing? I know you do not have aquarium lighting and > > have to rely on them getting light from a nearby window so you'll have > > to learn how much lighting to give them so the plants do well but you > > do not get algae issues... and NO direct sun on your bowl as that > > could heat up the water. I wish I could tell you how much > > indirect/diffused lighting to give the plants but I've never tried > > natural lighting so I have no clue. You'll just have to experiment > > with how close you keep the bowl to the window so it gets enough > > light, but not too much light and NO direct sunlight hitting the bowl. > > It's OK if sun beams, if you get any, are on either side of the bowl... > just not directly on the bowl. > > > > All this said, if feeding fluffy foods (full of air) or freeze-dried > > foods like blood worms, you should soak the foods for a minute or two > > (or more if > > needed) so the air is out of the food and/or the freeze dried foods > > are rehydrated and then only feed enough at a time that it can eat and > > be satisfied. As I'm sure we've previously written, DO NOT feed most > > fish foods that will put too much air in their systems or foods that > > might expand once inside the fish (like a freeze dried food will do if > > not rehydrated > > first) as these can cause digestive issues, bloating, etc. > > > > The last Betta that I had, which I rescued from a flooded home after > > Katrina, came with several foods, one of which was Aqua Culture Betta > > Pellet Food (probably not the best stuff but he liked it... the > > ingredients start off with "Fish Meal, Wheat flour, Soy flour,..." so > > I know it's not a high quality food and Bettas are carnivores so the > > Fish Meal is an OK ingredient but the other stuff isn't normally in > > their diet but didn't seem to cause him any digestive issues). The > > pellets were little pellets about the size of pin head (not the pin > > tip, but the pin head on a pinning pin, not a sewing pin.. lol.. if > > any of that makes sense) and my Betta would eat a couple to several of > > them each feeding and then I could tell he was full. I tried to only > > feed him what I could see him eat so wasted/missed food didn't sink > > down into the gravel. The pellets floated if gently dropped onto the > > surface of the water but sometimes one would sink and if he saw it, he > > would chase it and usually get it before it got down to the gravel. I > > fed him twice a day since he was an adult and would only put one > > pellet at a time on the surface of the water. I also had some of the > > freeze dried blood worms and freeze dried shrimp and I would occasionally > give him a small piece of one of those as a snack but he really liked the > pellets much more. > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles > > referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically > > under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] > > On Behalf Of Kathy > > Sent: Saturday, November 14, 2009 11:54 AM > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > Subject: [AquaticLife] has anyone else experienced this? > > > > Pisces seems to be begging after I feed him....like he's asking for > seconds. > > I know that giving him seconds could kill him, so I never do. But > > it's really cute to watch. Has anyone else had this happen with their > bettas? > > Is this just something I'm reading into him, or is he actually begging > > for seconds? > > -Kathy >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 44529	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 11/14/2009
Subject: Re: Big Poppa's Algae Issue (was Re: Plants growing black hair - ee

Doing a black out with plants will usually start to kill your plants. How often are you doing your PWC's now, and how much are you taking out when you do it? I still didn't see if you answered whether or not you added anything new recently (such as fertilizers, etc). Amber greychildren wrote: > > 3 days black out still green water now my plants are dieying > > PH 7.0 > KH 12 > Gh 5 > Amonia 0.1 > Nitrate 2.0 > Nitrite 0 > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>, "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" > <GoldLenny@...> wrote: > > > > DO NOT use the AlgaeFix product. All it will do is kill off the > algae (harm > > your plants and possibly poison your fish), causing further pollution > > problems in your tank. As Amber said, something caused an imbalance > in your > > system. Algae thrives when there is too much of one of the three things > > needed for plants... light, nutrients and CO2. If all three are in > balance, > > the plants should do well and there should not be enough nutrients > left over > > to feed a green water algae bloom but if one gets too far out of > whack, then > > the algae can become a problem. DO NOT do anything drastic at this > time, as > > that will also cause an imbalance and possibly cause even more > problems or > > harm your plants. Slowly and gradually, doing more frequent PWC's, > slowly > > cutting back on the lighting and doing better gravel vacuuming and > filter > > maintenance will slowly get things back to normal. If, after a couple of > > weeks, things are not back to normal, then a 3-day total blackout > has worked > > for some. > > > > As usual, what are your water parameters. Give us some history on them > > also. What were they before the algae bloom and what are they now, > before > > and after each PWC... and your tap water 48 hour baseline numbers. > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right > > side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, > Month) > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On > > Behalf Of Amber Berglund > > Sent: Wednesday, November 11, 2009 9:08 PM > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: Plants growing black hair - eek. > > > > How old is this tank? Did you add anything new? Fertilizers for > plants, new > > lighting, etc? > > Green water should go away (very very slowly) on it's own, as long > as you > > lower the lighting timeframe and such that you have already done. > > There is NO quick fix for this. > > You can do more PWC's but sometimes that can cause more problems > than fix > > the water because it can actually cause the algae to grow faster, rather > > than get rid of it. > > Let us know if you have changed anything recently for this to happen. > > > > Amber > > > > biG poppa wrote: > > > > > > Help Help hi guys i have green water i have tried it all move the > > > lights up 4 inches, water changes all the water paremeters are > > > fine........my next option is Algeafix by API...I have also lower the > > > time the lights are on...........Added an air stone and a power > > > jet..this is my 55g set up its floresent green....... > > > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 44530	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 11/14/2009
Subject: Robots to Probe Oceans

http://www.networkworld.com/community/node/47612?source=NWWNLE_nlt_security_ 2009-11-11 http://tinyurl.com/y9b2e25 Swarms of robots will soon be scooting across the ocean floor looking to monitor everything from protected marine areas and fish migration patterns to a variety of other biological activities. The robotic swarms come courtesy of the National Science Foundation (NSF) who has awarded nearly $3 million to scientists at the Scripps Institution of Oceanography to develop, build and manage an advanced breed of ocean-probing instruments known as autonomous underwater explorers, or AUEs. . . . \\Steve//

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 44531	From: Gwydryn@aol.com	Date: 11/14/2009
Subject: Re: Question about eating snails/clams and oysters

In a message dated 11/13/2009 8:23:33 P.M. Central Standard Time, GoldLenny@... writes: Well.. I know who's the first to get voted off AquaticLife Survivor Island. ;-) Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - _http://GoldLenny.http://Gohtt_ (http://goldlenny.blogspot.com/) (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) Well, Lenny, if you vote me out you wont be getting seconds on "mollusk eye" salads... on the other hand all the squid and octopi belongs to us! Enid "Life is not about waiting for the storms to pass...it's about learning how to dance in the rain." [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 44532	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 11/14/2009
Subject: 1500 Gallon Outdoor Aquarium Is Not Drive Thru

I thought I had posted this earlier in the week, but looking over my sent items, it appears I have not. Woman with boy in lap plows truck into TIA wall, damaging an aquarium, killing fish, http://www.tampabay.com/news/publicsafety/accidents/woman-with-boy-in-lap-pl ows-truck-into-tia-wall-destroying-aquarium/1050673 http://tinyurl.com/yhuwsua TAMPA - A woman with a 6-year-old child in her lap crashed her small truck into the side of Tampa International Airport on Monday night, damaging an aquarium outside the American Airlines baggage claim. Tire marks show the 1994 red Ford Ranger's path over the curb and into the tank, barely missing a concrete pole on the left and the airport's tiled wall on the right. . . . \\Steve//

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 44533	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 11/14/2009
Subject: Your overgrown with algae tanks useful.

No more need to worry about algae growing in your tanks. Use it to fuel your car! The Algaeus algae-fueled Prius hits the road. http://www.smartplanet.com/technology/blog/thinking-tech/the-algaeus-algae-f ueled-prius-hits-the-road/1415/ http://tinyurl.com/ob5jcg \\Steve//

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 44534	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 11/14/2009
Subject: Re: 1500 Gallon Outdoor Aquarium Is Not Drive Thru

You did and we had a vivid, entertaining and enlightening thread about it. You must have been busy reading that Woman's Day magazine and missed it all. LOL Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Steve Szabo Sent: Sunday, November 15, 2009 12:27 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] 1500 Gallon Outdoor Aquarium Is Not Drive Thru I thought I had posted this earlier in the week, but looking over my sent items, it appears I have not. Woman with boy in lap plows truck into TIA wall, damaging an aquarium, killing fish, http://www.tampabay.com/news/publicsafety/accidents/woman-with-boy-in-lap-pl ows-truck-into-tia-wall-destroying-aquarium/1050673 http://tinyurl.com/yhuwsua TAMPA - A woman with a 6-year-old child in her lap crashed her small truck into the side of Tampa International Airport on Monday night, damaging an aquarium outside the American Airlines baggage claim. Tire marks show the 1994 red Ford Ranger's path over the curb and into the tank, barely missing a concrete pole on the left and the airport's tiled wall on the right. . . . \\Steve//

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 44535	From: Dora Smith	Date: 11/15/2009
Subject: Re: Your overgrown with algae tanks useful.

Beats taking up corn crops to make a more expensive gasoline product. Yours, Dora Smith Austin, TX tiggernut24@... ----- Original Message ----- From: "Steve Szabo" <steve@...> To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Sunday, November 15, 2009 1:24 AM Subject: [AquaticLife] Your overgrown with algae tanks useful. No more need to worry about algae growing in your tanks. Use it to fuel your car! The Algaeus algae-fueled Prius hits the road. http://www.smartplanet.com/technology/blog/thinking-tech/the-algaeus-algae-f ueled-prius-hits-the-road/1415/ http://tinyurl.com/ob5jcg \\Steve// ------------------------------------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the home page. Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com to receive the digest, which includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com for the No E-Mail option where you will still be able to read messages on the group and post replies. Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com to receive individual e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 44536	From: sevenspringss@wmconnect.com	Date: 11/15/2009
Subject: Re: (Not) catching Siamese Algae Eaters

It ALWAYS pays to use two nets -- one that you keep still and will use to catch the fish, and the other to use to coax/guide them into that net. This is something that all too few fishkeepers fail to keep in mind. Mindless chasing of fish often gets you nowhere, and results in nothing but stressed fish (still uncaught). You can try keeping the first (larger) net in the tank overnight so that the fish get used to it as part of the "decor" and will not be as suspicious of it. Yeah, I know, the first movement of that net may cause any fish near it to scatter. You need to be fast and determined in that first attempt catching anything with that net; the first movement must be the same move that captures them, ideally with the fish resting unaware between the net and the glass at that time. A little food dropped in that area may help draw the fish to that area before you grab for the net. Heavily planted tanks and fish that bolt into hiding at the first sight of just the bottom edge of a net entering the water can present a different proposition, though. I'm reminded of some collector's tales of slapping the water's surface real hard with their boating paddles, that stuns the fish into floating on the surface <g>, often causing them to jump clear of the surface first. A large butterfly net could be used then to catch the fish on the way down (LOL). Now, about that 1/4 stick of dinamite . . . Ray [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 44537	From: Jade	Date: 11/15/2009
Subject: Re: Aquarium heater sedimentation?

Steve - a 'mere' $42,000 eh? Now where can I get YOUR job? :) Though yeah it is out of focus I will work on trying to get a clearer shot... the cameras don't tend to like the lighting. Lenny - I already have a piece of driftwood in the tank, and take roughly 2 gallons off 3 times a week, as opposed to a 25% weekly change regimen which was insufficient. I am referring to the tannish stuff below the clip. The sand is sold out of Ft. Lauderdale, Fl. and is all natural, however specifics beyond this I am at a loss for. Though my Ph did drop a bit when I put it in after taking out my gravel, so I do not think the sand is the cause. I have no ornaments in my tank, I simply have my plants, and my driftwood. As to the stress coat, I use that to remove the very large amounts of chlorine we have in our tap water, and it also helps repair damaged fins more quickly (in my experience.), some of my guppies get a bit nippy towards each other at times. I do agree that the chemicals can cause pollution in the ecosystem, however and this again is in my experience, the very few I do use are very beneficial and my fish do better with it than they ever had done without it, and as this is experience based, I am simply stating my view :) I do use the flourish every so often, but not very often. My plants have been thriving for which I am thankful, as a planted tank makes for a safe haven for fry. I will try soon to get you a better photo of the heater when possible. --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Steve Szabo" <steve@...> wrote: > > I noticed the out of focus shot also. I think the problem may be with the > auto focus focusing on the glass rather than on the heater. It would depend > on the actual camera how to fix it. If manual focus mode is available, then > manually focus the camera. If it is not, perhaps the f/ stop can be played > with, in which case you could set it higher than called for, which will > decrease the shutter speed, so it would be best to use a tripod to hold the > camera, or place it on a steady surface. If neither of those options are > available, Then you might want to look around for another camera. > > If I may be so bold, I can make a suggestion that you look at this one: > http://www.hasselbladusa.com/media/2081132/uk_h4d_datasheet_v3.pdf > > http://tinyurl.com/ycujcoz > > This one should meet most of your needs, and it has a 60 megapixel CCD. You > can have it for just under a mere $42,000. > > \\Steve// > > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On > Behalf Of Lenny V. aka GoldLenny > Sent: Friday, November 13, 2009 11:19 AM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: Aquarium heater sedimentation? > > Hmmmm.... then I'm not sure what that could be. I'm looking at the picture > again right now and just to be sure we're seeing the same things, what I'm > seeing in the picture is an upright glass tube section of the heater held in > place by one suction cup clamp and to me, the tannish colored *stuff* starts > growing around where the clamp starts and looks kind of thick downward from > there but to me, it looks like it's only growing on the front half of the > glass heater tube. Let me know if this is what you were trying to take a > picture of or if it was the darker rust colored streaking above the clamp? > If it's the rust colored stuff, I would guess at diatoms but the tannish > colored stuff is unknown to me and would appear to be some kind of > fungi/mold. Can you try to get some better pictures. The one you posted is > kind of blurry. You might have to back your camera up a little. Many > cameras, unless they have a macro mode, cannot take really close up pictures > and probably have to be at least a foot away from something or it will come > out blurry. Some cameras might have to be 2'-3' away. If you have a local > university, you could always call their biology department and ask if you > could bring a sample to them for physical and/or microscopic identification, > in case it's a fungus or mold, most of which are not harmful and this could > explain why you are getting this and not your parents. It could have come > in on one of your plants. > > As far as you pH. If your tap water 48 hour baseline is only 7.1, then > there is something in the tank that is raising the pH. Silica based sands > should be inert but some other types of sand can cause the pH to rise, such > as coral and aragonite sands, which are going to have a high calcium > carbonate level. Where did you get your sand? Here's a simple article > about the various sands that are commonly used in aquariums. > http://www.cichlid-forum.com/articles/sand.php Unless you have a decoration > or other item that could be leaching hardness into your tank, I would > strongly suspect the sand but then you mentioned that you had this issue > before with your gravel. If it is the sand, now you have the questions on > whether to keep it or not. Since removing sand is a LOT more work than > removing gravel and since your tank is planted, you might just want to go > with doing more frequent PWC's (partial water changes) and maybe adding a > piece of driftwood to the tank. The good news is that a slowly rising pH is > not really harmful to fish as much as a dropping pH, although drastic > changes in either direction (not caused by CO2 levels during photosynthesis) > can be harmful. > > In the future, you can save some money by NOT buying the Stress-this or > Slime-that type products. They simply are NOT needed and provide little or > no benefit to our tanks... other than adding another chemical pollutant to > the closed ecosystem. If your plants need it, the Seachem Flourish is fine > to use but is not always necessary either. All I add to my tanks is a > pro-rata dose of dechlor during each PWC. I use API's Tap Water Conditioner > since it's more concentrated than other brands for a lower cost.. 1ml treats > 10G where most other dechlors need 5ml or even 10ml for 10G. I do have a > portion of cuttlebone in each of my filters for slow dosing of calcium > carbonates to the tanks but that's it for me as far as additives. No salt. > No stress-this or slime-that stuff. No pH up, down or around junk. Just > weekly 25% PWC's, gravel vacuuming and filter cleaning. > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right > side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On > Behalf Of Jade > Sent: Thursday, November 12, 2009 4:51 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Aquarium heater sedimentation? > > Lenny: IT's actually growing completely around the heater. > The Ph of my tap is 7.1, after letting it sit. A friend of mine had > recommended that to me awhile back. No I'm not adding any water hardeners > and in fact I removed the gravel of my tank(replaced with natural sand) > which was increasing the Ph, and added in driftwood. 8.0 is the lowest it > seems to go. > I do not have GH or KH tests... and unfortunately at present cannot afford > to buy them. > > Steve: My parents had an aquarium for the longest, they never had this > problem... though in spite of the meticulous care of my tank... it's always > there. The only things I add to my tank are Stress Coat +, Stress Zyme (Once > a week), and Flourish, though this was happening long before I had live > plants. It happened in my past tanks as well... maybe the heater brand could > be the problem? I had the same brand every time this happened, though I > doubt the brand would be problematic it's a thought. I've scoured the > internet for weeks and came up empty-handed. Obviously whatever this crap > is, it isn't good for the heater I wouldn't think. When I can manage to have > the funds to be able to get a new heater just in case this one cracks I will > try to scrape off the...whatever it is. > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@> > wrote: > > > > OK. From looking at the picture, it looks like this stuff is growing > > just on the front side of the heater facing the light of the tank... > > right? If I am seeing it correctly, then this is probably some kind > > of algae since it's only growing on the lighted side of the heater. > > I've never seen one that prefers only the HOT temperatures of a heater > though. > > > > As far as your pH goes, is this pH of 8.0 in your tank or right out > > your tap? I have an article on my blog called "Find Your Tap Water > > Baseline" and it's a good idea for everyone to do this and know what > > happens to their tap water. Testing it right out the tap will not > > give accurate numbers most of the time. The 48 hour baseline is a > > more accurate number but folks also need to know their right out the > > tap numbers as they might have to do smaller % PWC's if their > > right-out-the-tap numbers are a LOT different than their 48 hour > > baseline and/or actual tank numbers. I'm guessing you're not adding > anything like crushed coral, other water hardener substances, etc... > > or do you possibly have a substrate that might have something in it > > that is leaching hardness into your water in the tank? The 48 hour > > baseline numbers will tell us more. > > > > Do you have GH and KH tests? That will also give us more info. API > > makes a combo kit for GH and KH that matches with the Master Test Kit > > and/or other individual kits. If you do, let us know the 48 hour tap > > water baseline numbers and your tank numbers. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] > > On Behalf Of Jade > > Sent: Wednesday, November 11, 2009 8:59 PM > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Aquarium heater sedimentation? > > > > > > Lenny: > > (answers in parenthesis) > > > > How long have you had your tank set up? (About two years now) > > > > Do you have this "brown substance) > > on the gravel, other decorations, glass, etc? (No I do not) > > > > Give us more details about your tank. Size, stocking, fish species, > > etc.(Size - 20 gal long, stocking 9 adult guppies and 2 adolescents.) > > > > Give us a little info on your fish keeping skills also. (I've been > > raising live-bearers for the better part of 12 years now... clarify > > skills?) > > > > What is your pH level and why do you think it is high? Contrary to > > some of the bottles of crap that some stores sell, you do NOT need a > > pH of 7.0 in order to keep fish and in fact, a higher or lower pH is > > often better for many species of fish. > > (My PH is 8.0, according to the water tester from API (Not the sticks!!! > > Vials with the drops... noted far more accurate) I am well aware you > > don't need a flat ph of 7.0 and in fact some species of freshwater > > fish prefer high-end PH. Guppies themselves prefer about 7.5)) > > > > How did you crack your heater by cleaning it? Did you drop it or > something? > > I can't imagine scrubbing it with a brush would break it unless it > > already had a fracture or stress crack. (Negative, I didn't drop it, I > > was using a semi-dull knife to try to get the brown stuff off - the > > same that is on this heater, and it simply just cracked.) > > ------------ > > > > Steve: > > Thanks for the tip, I'll try to give it a go when I can get the razor. > > Right now I can't afford that much less a new heater. So I think I'll > > hold off just a bit until I can afford BOTH, just in case, hehe. > > > > ------------- > > Donna: > > These unfortunately don't just brush away. Sometimes small, solid > > chunks will fall off, but it's rare. > > > > --------- > > To All : Took a to give you guys some reference as to what it looks like. > > The brown thing on the top left is a lily pad, just so you know. See > > photo link below. > > > > http://i352.photobucket.com/albums/r329/Tehzedaj/Picture60.jpg > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" > > <GoldLenny@> > > wrote: > > > > > > How long have you had your tank set up? Do you have this "brown > > > substance) on the gravel, other decorations, glass, etc? > > > > > > Give us more details about your tank. Size, stocking, fish species, > etc. > > > Give us a little info on your fish keeping skills also. > > > > > > What is your pH level and why do you think it is high? Contrary to > > > some of the bottles of crap that some stores sell, you do NOT need a > > > pH of 7.0 in order to keep fish and in fact, a higher or lower pH is > > > often better for many species of fish. > > > > > > How did you crack your heater by cleaning it? Did you drop it or > > something? > > > I can't imagine scrubbing it with a brush would break it unless it > > > already had a fracture or stress crack. > > > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles > > > referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, > > > alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) > > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] > > > On Behalf Of Jade > > > Sent: Sunday, November 08, 2009 9:29 PM > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > > Subject: [AquaticLife] Aquarium heater sedimentation? > > > > > > I have a hard light brown (tanish) substance covering the tube of my > > > aquarium heater... is this sediment? I was wondering if that's > > > what's causing my high Ph (there's absolutely nothing else in there > > > that could do it...). How do I clean it off? I've had the problem > before... > > > and in attempts to clean it the heater actually cracked (thankfully > > > it wasn't in the tank at the time.) > > > > > > Any ideas/suggestions/help would be appreciated :) >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 44538	From: Donna Ransome	Date: 11/15/2009
Subject: Re: 1500 Gallon Outdoor Aquarium Is Not Drive Thru

That's because I posted it Steve, and you probably saw it. _____ From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Steve Szabo Sent: Sunday, November 15, 2009 1:27 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] 1500 Gallon Outdoor Aquarium Is Not Drive Thru I thought I had posted this earlier in the week, but looking over my sent items, it appears I have not. Woman with boy in lap plows truck into TIA wall, damaging an aquarium, killing fish, http://www.tampabay <http://www.tampabay.com/news/publicsafety/accidents/woman-with-boy-in-lap-p l> .com/news/publicsafety/accidents/woman-with-boy-in-lap-pl ows-truck-into-tia-wall-destroying-aquarium/1050673 http://tinyurl. <http://tinyurl.com/yhuwsua> com/yhuwsua TAMPA - A woman with a 6-year-old child in her lap crashed her small truck into the side of Tampa International Airport on Monday night, damaging an aquarium outside the American Airlines baggage claim. Tire marks show the 1994 red Ford Ranger's path over the curb and into the tank, barely missing a concrete pole on the left and the airport's tiled wall on the right. . . . \\Steve// [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 44539	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 11/15/2009
Subject: Re: 1500 Gallon Outdoor Aquarium Is Not Drive Thru

Are you sure you are not thinking of the outdoor aquarium that was on Craig's List? Or were you too busy looking at all the other women's magazines on the grocery store rack to see if you could find a story to top the one I posted? \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Lenny V. aka GoldLenny Sent: Sunday, November 15, 2009 2:47 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] 1500 Gallon Outdoor Aquarium Is Not Drive Thru You did and we had a vivid, entertaining and enlightening thread about it. You must have been busy reading that Woman's Day magazine and missed it all. LOL Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Steve Szabo Sent: Sunday, November 15, 2009 12:27 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] 1500 Gallon Outdoor Aquarium Is Not Drive Thru I thought I had posted this earlier in the week, but looking over my sent items, it appears I have not. Woman with boy in lap plows truck into TIA wall, damaging an aquarium, killing fish, http://www.tampabay.com/news/publicsafety/accidents/woman-with-boy-in-lap-pl ows-truck-into-tia-wall-destroying-aquarium/1050673 http://tinyurl.com/yhuwsua TAMPA - A woman with a 6-year-old child in her lap crashed her small truck into the side of Tampa International Airport on Monday night, damaging an aquarium outside the American Airlines baggage claim. Tire marks show the 1994 red Ford Ranger's path over the curb and into the tank, barely missing a concrete pole on the left and the airport's tiled wall on the right. . . . \\Steve//

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 44540	From: kuradi8	Date: 11/15/2009
Subject: Re: More on Vacuums

Santa balked so I contacted the seller from ebay.uk at http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=220460202247 and Howard replied with a cheap/slow shipping rate that delivers one of these WONDERFUL gravel cleaners to my door for less than US$20. For those of you who aren't familiar with these vacuums, they are no longer available in the US. And they are FAR SUPERIOR (IMHO) to the ones we have to choose from either in person or online from US distributors. These vacuums come in three models. The GC30 is for small tanks. The GC40 is suitable for 20+ gallon and fits well into my 21" tall 55g. And there is also a GC50 that has an extension for taller tanks. I have had two GC40s in the last 25-ish years and HIGHLY recommend them. I'm thrilled to be getting a new one as a back-up in case (heaven forbid) I break the one I have. ~Kai in PA > Kai wrote: > > I'm sending Santa to ebay.uk: http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=350111113554 with instructions to try to negotiate cheaper shipping from the seller. > ~Kai > > > > Lenny wrote: > > > > Lucky for you, Santa hits the UK, on Christmas Eve, before crossing the pond > > to America, so he can pick them up on his way here.... meaning less work for > > the elves. I hope you caught that part about not seeing them on any > > U.S./Canada websites, only on UK websites. > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > > (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right > > side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > Kai wrote: > > > > I can't [Brooklyn grammar] believe you found them! =8oO =8oD > > > > Yes, I vaguely remember they came in several sizes. I got mine 10-15 years > > ago, probably from Petland Discounts (Long Island, NY) -- but they were also > > available in pet departments of discounters like TSS (a chain that has been > > out of business for close to 20 years.) > > > > THANK YOU for finding them! I'm going to put a new one on my Santa List, > > complete with a pointer to where Santa can find one for me. > > > > They're far superior to the ones that are easily available. > > ~Kai > > > > > > > > Lenny wrote: > > > > > > I spoke too soon in my previous reply. A couple of more pages of > > > Google Image scanning found this... > > > > > > > > > http://www.fish-fish-fish.com/?cat=Cleaning_Tools__Nets___Thermometers > > > > > > Scroll down to near the bottom to the Tetra-Tec HydroClean gravel > > > vacuums and the pictures on the GC-40 and GC-50 boxes look like yours. > > > This is a UK site so the prices are in Pounds but at least this looks > > > like yours. They have three models/sizes. I haven't seen these in > > > any of the only sites in the U.S. > > > > > > I did a Google of Tetra-Tec HydroClean and ALL of the top hits had .UK > > > website addresses. Planning a trip to the UK any time soon? ;-) > > > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles > > > referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically > > > under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > Kai wrote: > > > > > > I've uploaded a couple of pictures of my tank vacuum at > > > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife/photos/album/1062797703/pic/ > > > list and once they're approved, can anyone tell me where to get > > > another vacuum like that? It's still OK but getting old and I haven't > > > seen another like it in 10+ years. I sure would hate to accidentally > > > break it! > > > > > > What I like about it is that it's self-priming by pumping it up and > > > down in the water, the siphon flow is adjustable, it has a good gravel > > > grate and it unscrews into two pieces for easy cleaning and storage. > > > > > > Obviously, the siphon hose is not pictured. :o) ~Kai > > > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 44541	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 11/15/2009
Subject: Re: Aquarium heater sedimentation?

While API is generally a good company and I especially like their API Tap Water Conditioner for dechlor and heavy metal treatment of tap water, some of their products are in answer to competition's products, including Stress Coat. Stress Coat, according to their *advertisement* has Aloe Vera and something to increase slime coat (probably just salt, which will cause a fish to put out more slime coat and also provides chloride which makes increases gill function... this would be akin to someone sucking on some extra bottled O2 which is not needed for most folks) Here's the MSDS on API Stress Coat - http://www.aquariumpharm.com/cms/Files/MSDS/Stress_Coat_NG_030907.pdf (PDF document) The MSDS starts off stating in bold red lettering that it's a hazardous substance and goes through explaining why. In the composition/ingredients section 3, it says the three ingredients are "Aloes, extract" between 1-10%; non-hazardous proprietary ingredents, between 1-10%; and water >80% (more than). "proprietary" means they are the companies secret ingredients still covered by one or more patents so they do not have to disclose them but you can be pretty sure they are salt based as salt is a nice cheap chemical that provides all of the things that the advertisement claims.... slime coat and easier breathing to reduce stress. BUT... a pinch of salt per 10G is all that is needed to raise the chloride level in a tank to where it will provide increased gill function (and also protect from nitrite poisoning in tanks with nitrite issues from nitrogen cycle issues). If you really want to continue using Stress Coat, go to http://www.aquariumpharm.com/surveys/Survey.aspx?SurveyID=2 and take the quick survey and they'll send you a rebate coupon for your next purchase. I happened to see this while on the API website. The sand from Ft. Lauderdale could be silica based sand BUT it could also be coral based sand OR a combination of both since there are plenty of coral reefs all around southern Florida coastlines, most notably in the Florida Keys where I spent many vacations diving the many reefs, ship wrecks and attractions down there. You will have to contact the sand sellers or look at the bag to see which one you have BUT obviously, you have something in your tank that is raising your pH to 8.0.... if your 48 hour tap water baseline testing shows only a 7.1 pH. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Jade Sent: Sunday, November 15, 2009 5:57 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Aquarium heater sedimentation? Steve - a 'mere' $42,000 eh? Now where can I get YOUR job? :) Though yeah it is out of focus I will work on trying to get a clearer shot... the cameras don't tend to like the lighting. Lenny - I already have a piece of driftwood in the tank, and take roughly 2 gallons off 3 times a week, as opposed to a 25% weekly change regimen which was insufficient. I am referring to the tannish stuff below the clip. The sand is sold out of Ft. Lauderdale, Fl. and is all natural, however specifics beyond this I am at a loss for. Though my Ph did drop a bit when I put it in after taking out my gravel, so I do not think the sand is the cause. I have no ornaments in my tank, I simply have my plants, and my driftwood. As to the stress coat, I use that to remove the very large amounts of chlorine we have in our tap water, and it also helps repair damaged fins more quickly (in my experience.), some of my guppies get a bit nippy towards each other at times. I do agree that the chemicals can cause pollution in the ecosystem, however and this again is in my experience, the very few I do use are very beneficial and my fish do better with it than they ever had done without it, and as this is experience based, I am simply stating my view :) I do use the flourish every so often, but not very often. My plants have been thriving for which I am thankful, as a planted tank makes for a safe haven for fry. I will try soon to get you a better photo of the heater when possible. --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Steve Szabo" <steve@...> wrote: > > I noticed the out of focus shot also. I think the problem may be with > the auto focus focusing on the glass rather than on the heater. It > would depend on the actual camera how to fix it. If manual focus mode > is available, then manually focus the camera. If it is not, perhaps > the f/ stop can be played with, in which case you could set it higher > than called for, which will decrease the shutter speed, so it would be > best to use a tripod to hold the camera, or place it on a steady > surface. If neither of those options are available, Then you might want to look around for another camera. > > If I may be so bold, I can make a suggestion that you look at this one: > http://www.hasselbladusa.com/media/2081132/uk_h4d_datasheet_v3.pdf > > http://tinyurl.com/ycujcoz > > This one should meet most of your needs, and it has a 60 megapixel > CCD. You can have it for just under a mere $42,000. > > \\Steve// > > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] > On Behalf Of Lenny V. aka GoldLenny > Sent: Friday, November 13, 2009 11:19 AM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: Aquarium heater sedimentation? > > Hmmmm.... then I'm not sure what that could be. I'm looking at the > picture again right now and just to be sure we're seeing the same > things, what I'm seeing in the picture is an upright glass tube > section of the heater held in place by one suction cup clamp and to > me, the tannish colored *stuff* starts growing around where the clamp > starts and looks kind of thick downward from there but to me, it looks > like it's only growing on the front half of the glass heater tube. > Let me know if this is what you were trying to take a picture of or if it was the darker rust colored streaking above the clamp? > If it's the rust colored stuff, I would guess at diatoms but the > tannish colored stuff is unknown to me and would appear to be some > kind of fungi/mold. Can you try to get some better pictures. The one > you posted is kind of blurry. You might have to back your camera up a > little. Many cameras, unless they have a macro mode, cannot take > really close up pictures and probably have to be at least a foot away > from something or it will come out blurry. Some cameras might have to > be 2'-3' away. If you have a local university, you could always call > their biology department and ask if you could bring a sample to them > for physical and/or microscopic identification, in case it's a fungus > or mold, most of which are not harmful and this could explain why you > are getting this and not your parents. It could have come in on one of your plants. > > As far as you pH. If your tap water 48 hour baseline is only 7.1, > then there is something in the tank that is raising the pH. Silica > based sands should be inert but some other types of sand can cause the > pH to rise, such as coral and aragonite sands, which are going to have > a high calcium carbonate level. Where did you get your sand? Here's > a simple article about the various sands that are commonly used in aquariums. > http://www.cichlid-forum.com/articles/sand.php Unless you have a > decoration or other item that could be leaching hardness into your > tank, I would strongly suspect the sand but then you mentioned that > you had this issue before with your gravel. If it is the sand, now > you have the questions on whether to keep it or not. Since removing > sand is a LOT more work than removing gravel and since your tank is > planted, you might just want to go with doing more frequent PWC's > (partial water changes) and maybe adding a piece of driftwood to the > tank. The good news is that a slowly rising pH is not really harmful > to fish as much as a dropping pH, although drastic changes in either > direction (not caused by CO2 levels during photosynthesis) can be harmful. > > In the future, you can save some money by NOT buying the Stress-this > or Slime-that type products. They simply are NOT needed and provide > little or no benefit to our tanks... other than adding another > chemical pollutant to the closed ecosystem. If your plants need it, > the Seachem Flourish is fine to use but is not always necessary > either. All I add to my tanks is a pro-rata dose of dechlor during > each PWC. I use API's Tap Water Conditioner since it's more > concentrated than other brands for a lower cost.. 1ml treats 10G where > most other dechlors need 5ml or even 10ml for 10G. I do have a > portion of cuttlebone in each of my filters for slow dosing of calcium carbonates to the tanks but that's it for me as far as additives. No salt. > No stress-this or slime-that stuff. No pH up, down or around junk. > Just weekly 25% PWC's, gravel vacuuming and filter cleaning. > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles > referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically > under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] > On Behalf Of Jade > Sent: Thursday, November 12, 2009 4:51 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Aquarium heater sedimentation? > > Lenny: IT's actually growing completely around the heater. > The Ph of my tap is 7.1, after letting it sit. A friend of mine had > recommended that to me awhile back. No I'm not adding any water > hardeners and in fact I removed the gravel of my tank(replaced with > natural sand) which was increasing the Ph, and added in driftwood. 8.0 > is the lowest it seems to go. > I do not have GH or KH tests... and unfortunately at present cannot > afford to buy them. > > Steve: My parents had an aquarium for the longest, they never had this > problem... though in spite of the meticulous care of my tank... it's > always there. The only things I add to my tank are Stress Coat +, > Stress Zyme (Once a week), and Flourish, though this was happening > long before I had live plants. It happened in my past tanks as well... > maybe the heater brand could be the problem? I had the same brand > every time this happened, though I doubt the brand would be > problematic it's a thought. I've scoured the internet for weeks and > came up empty-handed. Obviously whatever this crap is, it isn't good > for the heater I wouldn't think. When I can manage to have the funds > to be able to get a new heater just in case this one cracks I will try to scrape off the...whatever it is. > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" > <GoldLenny@> > wrote: > > > > OK. From looking at the picture, it looks like this stuff is > > growing just on the front side of the heater facing the light of the tank... > > right? If I am seeing it correctly, then this is probably some kind > > of algae since it's only growing on the lighted side of the heater. > > I've never seen one that prefers only the HOT temperatures of a > > heater > though. > > > > As far as your pH goes, is this pH of 8.0 in your tank or right out > > your tap? I have an article on my blog called "Find Your Tap Water > > Baseline" and it's a good idea for everyone to do this and know what > > happens to their tap water. Testing it right out the tap will not > > give accurate numbers most of the time. The 48 hour baseline is a > > more accurate number but folks also need to know their right out the > > tap numbers as they might have to do smaller % PWC's if their > > right-out-the-tap numbers are a LOT different than their 48 hour > > baseline and/or actual tank numbers. I'm guessing you're not adding > anything like crushed coral, other water hardener substances, etc... > > or do you possibly have a substrate that might have something in it > > that is leaching hardness into your water in the tank? The 48 hour > > baseline numbers will tell us more. > > > > Do you have GH and KH tests? That will also give us more info. API > > makes a combo kit for GH and KH that matches with the Master Test > > Kit and/or other individual kits. If you do, let us know the 48 > > hour tap water baseline numbers and your tank numbers. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] > > On Behalf Of Jade > > Sent: Wednesday, November 11, 2009 8:59 PM > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Aquarium heater sedimentation? > > > > > > Lenny: > > (answers in parenthesis) > > > > How long have you had your tank set up? (About two years now) > > > > Do you have this "brown substance) > > on the gravel, other decorations, glass, etc? (No I do not) > > > > Give us more details about your tank. Size, stocking, fish species, > > etc.(Size - 20 gal long, stocking 9 adult guppies and 2 > > adolescents.) > > > > Give us a little info on your fish keeping skills also. (I've been > > raising live-bearers for the better part of 12 years now... clarify > > skills?) > > > > What is your pH level and why do you think it is high? Contrary to > > some of the bottles of crap that some stores sell, you do NOT need a > > pH of 7.0 in order to keep fish and in fact, a higher or lower pH is > > often better for many species of fish. > > (My PH is 8.0, according to the water tester from API (Not the sticks!!! > > Vials with the drops... noted far more accurate) I am well aware you > > don't need a flat ph of 7.0 and in fact some species of freshwater > > fish prefer high-end PH. Guppies themselves prefer about 7.5)) > > > > How did you crack your heater by cleaning it? Did you drop it or > something? > > I can't imagine scrubbing it with a brush would break it unless it > > already had a fracture or stress crack. (Negative, I didn't drop it, > > I was using a semi-dull knife to try to get the brown stuff off - > > the same that is on this heater, and it simply just cracked.) > > ------------ > > > > Steve: > > Thanks for the tip, I'll try to give it a go when I can get the razor. > > Right now I can't afford that much less a new heater. So I think > > I'll hold off just a bit until I can afford BOTH, just in case, hehe. > > > > ------------- > > Donna: > > These unfortunately don't just brush away. Sometimes small, solid > > chunks will fall off, but it's rare. > > > > --------- > > To All : Took a to give you guys some reference as to what it looks like. > > The brown thing on the top left is a lily pad, just so you know. See > > photo link below. > > > > http://i352.photobucket.com/albums/r329/Tehzedaj/Picture60.jpg > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" > > <GoldLenny@> > > wrote: > > > > > > How long have you had your tank set up? Do you have this "brown > > > substance) on the gravel, other decorations, glass, etc? > > > > > > Give us more details about your tank. Size, stocking, fish > > > species, > etc. > > > Give us a little info on your fish keeping skills also. > > > > > > What is your pH level and why do you think it is high? Contrary > > > to some of the bottles of crap that some stores sell, you do NOT > > > need a pH of 7.0 in order to keep fish and in fact, a higher or > > > lower pH is often better for many species of fish. > > > > > > How did you crack your heater by cleaning it? Did you drop it or > > something? > > > I can't imagine scrubbing it with a brush would break it unless it > > > already had a fracture or stress crack. > > > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles > > > referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, > > > alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, > > > Month) > > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] > > > On Behalf Of Jade > > > Sent: Sunday, November 08, 2009 9:29 PM > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > > Subject: [AquaticLife] Aquarium heater sedimentation? > > > > > > I have a hard light brown (tanish) substance covering the tube of > > > my aquarium heater... is this sediment? I was wondering if that's > > > what's causing my high Ph (there's absolutely nothing else in > > > there that could do it...). How do I clean it off? I've had the > > > problem > before... > > > and in attempts to clean it the heater actually cracked > > > (thankfully it wasn't in the tank at the time.) > > > > > > Any ideas/suggestions/help would be appreciated :)

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 44542	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 11/15/2009
Subject: Re: 1500 Gallon Outdoor Aquarium Is Not Drive Thru

LOL. Nope, it was the 1,500G Tampa Airport aquarium and I now see that Donna Ransome came forward as the originator of the article last week or so. The magazines I sneak peeks at are not usually displayed on the grocery store check-out racks but I'm only looking at them because I'm interested in the articles! ;-) I heard that Bill O'Reilly is even written about in a recent one, but I do not recall which magazine so I guess I'll have to keep looking through all of them till I find that elusive article. ;-) Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Steve Szabo Sent: Sunday, November 15, 2009 7:47 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] 1500 Gallon Outdoor Aquarium Is Not Drive Thru Are you sure you are not thinking of the outdoor aquarium that was on Craig's List? Or were you too busy looking at all the other women's magazines on the grocery store rack to see if you could find a story to top the one I posted? \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Lenny V. aka GoldLenny Sent: Sunday, November 15, 2009 2:47 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] 1500 Gallon Outdoor Aquarium Is Not Drive Thru You did and we had a vivid, entertaining and enlightening thread about it. You must have been busy reading that Woman's Day magazine and missed it all. LOL Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Steve Szabo Sent: Sunday, November 15, 2009 12:27 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] 1500 Gallon Outdoor Aquarium Is Not Drive Thru I thought I had posted this earlier in the week, but looking over my sent items, it appears I have not. Woman with boy in lap plows truck into TIA wall, damaging an aquarium, killing fish, http://www.tampabay.com/news/publicsafety/accidents/woman-with-boy-in-lap-pl ows-truck-into-tia-wall-destroying-aquarium/1050673 http://tinyurl.com/yhuwsua TAMPA - A woman with a 6-year-old child in her lap crashed her small truck into the side of Tampa International Airport on Monday night, damaging an aquarium outside the American Airlines baggage claim. Tire marks show the 1994 red Ford Ranger's path over the curb and into the tank, barely missing a concrete pole on the left and the airport's tiled wall on the right. . . . \\Steve//

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 44543	From: kuradi8	Date: 11/15/2009
Subject: Easily Amused

Mom will be 90 in a few weeks and the Betta I got her a month or two ago is her first fish. He is interesting. But now that I've added a snail to his bowl, Mom is absolutely fascinated by how the two interact. At first Kala ("Fish") was quite aggressive and she was upset at how much of a bully he was to Tigu ("Snail.") But now they have reached a detente. She gasps every time Tigu LEAPS from the water's edge down to the bottom. We joke that she should have named him Geronimoooooooo! And we all marvel at how active he is. He motors around the bowl, up and down, 'round and 'round. The snails in my Betta bowls are lazy suckers. They hardly move around at all. So that's life in the Betta Bowl downstairs. And how easily amused we all are by them -- especially Mom. ~Kai

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 44544	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 11/15/2009
Subject: Re: More on Vacuums

At that price, I'd have to go with a Python (or other similar brand) and then you won't need the buckets either. A Python (or imitation Python) can be purchased for around $25.00, the last time I checked. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of kuradi8 Sent: Sunday, November 15, 2009 8:33 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: More on Vacuums Santa balked so I contacted the seller from ebay.uk at http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=220460202247 and Howard replied with a cheap/slow shipping rate that delivers one of these WONDERFUL gravel cleaners to my door for less than US$20. For those of you who aren't familiar with these vacuums, they are no longer available in the US. And they are FAR SUPERIOR (IMHO) to the ones we have to choose from either in person or online from US distributors. These vacuums come in three models. The GC30 is for small tanks. The GC40 is suitable for 20+ gallon and fits well into my 21" tall 55g. And there is also a GC50 that has an extension for taller tanks. I have had two GC40s in the last 25-ish years and HIGHLY recommend them. I'm thrilled to be getting a new one as a back-up in case (heaven forbid) I break the one I have. ~Kai in PA > Kai wrote: > > I'm sending Santa to ebay.uk: http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=350111113554 with instructions to try to negotiate cheaper shipping from the seller. > ~Kai > > > > Lenny wrote: > > > > Lucky for you, Santa hits the UK, on Christmas Eve, before crossing > > the pond to America, so he can pick them up on his way here.... > > meaning less work for the elves. I hope you caught that part about > > not seeing them on any U.S./Canada websites, only on UK websites. > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles > > referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, > > alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > Kai wrote: > > > > I can't [Brooklyn grammar] believe you found them! =8oO =8oD > > > > Yes, I vaguely remember they came in several sizes. I got mine > > 10-15 years ago, probably from Petland Discounts (Long Island, NY) > > -- but they were also available in pet departments of discounters > > like TSS (a chain that has been out of business for close to 20 > > years.) > > > > THANK YOU for finding them! I'm going to put a new one on my Santa > > List, complete with a pointer to where Santa can find one for me. > > > > They're far superior to the ones that are easily available. > > ~Kai > > > > > > > > Lenny wrote: > > > > > > I spoke too soon in my previous reply. A couple of more pages of > > > Google Image scanning found this... > > > > > > > > > http://www.fish-fish-fish.com/?cat=Cleaning_Tools__Nets___Thermome > > > ters > > > > > > Scroll down to near the bottom to the Tetra-Tec HydroClean gravel > > > vacuums and the pictures on the GC-40 and GC-50 boxes look like yours. > > > This is a UK site so the prices are in Pounds but at least this > > > looks like yours. They have three models/sizes. I haven't seen > > > these in any of the only sites in the U.S. > > > > > > I did a Google of Tetra-Tec HydroClean and ALL of the top hits had > > > .UK website addresses. Planning a trip to the UK any time soon? > > > ;-) > > > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles > > > referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, > > > alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, > > > Month) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > Kai wrote: > > > > > > I've uploaded a couple of pictures of my tank vacuum at > > > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife/photos/album/1062797703/ > > > pic/ list and once they're approved, can anyone tell me where to > > > get another vacuum like that? It's still OK but getting old and I > > > haven't seen another like it in 10+ years. I sure would hate to > > > accidentally break it! > > > > > > What I like about it is that it's self-priming by pumping it up > > > and down in the water, the siphon flow is adjustable, it has a > > > good gravel grate and it unscrews into two pieces for easy cleaning and storage. > > > > > > Obviously, the siphon hose is not pictured. :o) ~Kai

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 44545	From: kuradi8	Date: 11/15/2009
Subject: Re: More on Vacuums

"What the farmer don't know, the farmer don't want." This GC40 gravel vac is a known-good and something that I know and trust and like. Besides, the Python won't fit onto my kitchen faucet. I have one of those pull-out deals. ~Kai > Lenny wrote: > > At that price, I'd have to go with a Python (or other similar brand) and > then you won't need the buckets either. A Python (or imitation Python) can > be purchased for around $25.00, the last time I checked. > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right > side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) > > > -----Original Message----- > Kai wrote: > > Santa balked so I contacted the seller from ebay.uk at > http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=220460202247 and Howard > replied with a cheap/slow shipping rate that delivers one of these WONDERFUL > gravel cleaners to my door for less than US$20. > > For those of you who aren't familiar with these vacuums, they are no longer > available in the US. And they are FAR SUPERIOR (IMHO) to the ones we have > to choose from either in person or online from US distributors. > > These vacuums come in three models. The GC30 is for small tanks. The GC40 > is suitable for 20+ gallon and fits well into my 21" tall 55g. And there is > also a GC50 that has an extension for taller tanks. I have had two GC40s in > the last 25-ish years and HIGHLY recommend them. > > I'm thrilled to be getting a new one as a back-up in case (heaven forbid) I > break the one I have. > ~Kai > in PA > > > > > > Kai wrote: > > > > I'm sending Santa to ebay.uk: > http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=350111113554 with > instructions to try to negotiate cheaper shipping from the seller. > > ~Kai > > > > > > > > Lenny wrote: > > > > > > Lucky for you, Santa hits the UK, on Christmas Eve, before crossing > > > the pond to America, so he can pick them up on his way here.... > > > meaning less work for the elves. I hope you caught that part about > > > not seeing them on any U.S./Canada websites, only on UK websites. > > > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles > > > referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, > > > alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) > > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > Kai wrote: > > > > > > I can't [Brooklyn grammar] believe you found them! =8oO =8oD > > > > > > Yes, I vaguely remember they came in several sizes. I got mine > > > 10-15 years ago, probably from Petland Discounts (Long Island, NY) > > > -- but they were also available in pet departments of discounters > > > like TSS (a chain that has been out of business for close to 20 > > > years.) > > > > > > THANK YOU for finding them! I'm going to put a new one on my Santa > > > List, complete with a pointer to where Santa can find one for me. > > > > > > They're far superior to the ones that are easily available. > > > ~Kai > > > > > > > > > > > > Lenny wrote: > > > > > > > > I spoke too soon in my previous reply. A couple of more pages of > > > > Google Image scanning found this... > > > > > > > > > > > > http://www.fish-fish-fish.com/?cat=Cleaning_Tools__Nets___Thermome > > > > ters > > > > > > > > Scroll down to near the bottom to the Tetra-Tec HydroClean gravel > > > > vacuums and the pictures on the GC-40 and GC-50 boxes look like yours. > > > > This is a UK site so the prices are in Pounds but at least this > > > > looks like yours. They have three models/sizes. I haven't seen > > > > these in any of the only sites in the U.S. > > > > > > > > I did a Google of Tetra-Tec HydroClean and ALL of the top hits had > > > > .UK website addresses. Planning a trip to the UK any time soon? > > > > ;-) > > > > > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles > > > > referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, > > > > alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, > > > > Month) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > > Kai wrote: > > > > > > > > I've uploaded a couple of pictures of my tank vacuum at > > > > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife/photos/album/1062797703/ > > > > pic/ list and once they're approved, can anyone tell me where to > > > > get another vacuum like that? It's still OK but getting old and I > > > > haven't seen another like it in 10+ years. I sure would hate to > > > > accidentally break it! > > > > > > > > What I like about it is that it's self-priming by pumping it up > > > > and down in the water, the siphon flow is adjustable, it has a > > > > good gravel grate and it unscrews into two pieces for easy cleaning > and storage. > > > > > > > > Obviously, the siphon hose is not pictured. :o) ~Kai >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 44546	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 11/15/2009
Subject: Re: Aquarium heater sedimentation?

What I do when I take pictures of my fish/plants is turn on the ROOM lighting first, then do not stand right next to the tank, you will have to be a few inches away or it will auto focus on the glass/shine instead of the fish. Just zoom in (preferably with an optical zoom as digital zooms are a little blurry). I have a panasonic DMC-LZ5 (it's a few years old now) and it takes very nice pictures for being a "cheaper" camera (it's not cheap, but it's not one of the expensive camera's either, I got mine for less than 200 I think, about 4 years ago). Amber Jade wrote: > > Steve - a 'mere' $42,000 eh? Now where can I get YOUR job? :) > Though yeah it is out of focus I will work on trying to get a clearer > shot... the cameras don't tend to like the lighting. > > Lenny - I already have a piece of driftwood in the tank, and take > roughly 2 gallons off 3 times a week, as opposed to a 25% weekly > change regimen which was insufficient. I am referring to the tannish > stuff below the clip. The sand is sold out of Ft. Lauderdale, Fl. and > is all natural, however specifics beyond this I am at a loss for. > Though my Ph did drop a bit when I put it in after taking out my > gravel, so I do not think the sand is the cause. I have no ornaments > in my tank, I simply have my plants, and my driftwood. > > As to the stress coat, I use that to remove the very large amounts of > chlorine we have in our tap water, and it also helps repair damaged > fins more quickly (in my experience.), some of my guppies get a bit > nippy towards each other at times. I do agree that the chemicals can > cause pollution in the ecosystem, however and this again is in my > experience, the very few I do use are very beneficial and my fish do > better with it than they ever had done without it, and as this is > experience based, I am simply stating my view :) I do use the flourish > every so often, but not very often. My plants have been thriving for > which I am thankful, as a planted tank makes for a safe haven for fry. > I will try soon to get you a better photo of the heater when possible. > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>, "Steve Szabo" <steve@...> wrote: > > > > I noticed the out of focus shot also. I think the problem may be > with the > > auto focus focusing on the glass rather than on the heater. It would > depend > > on the actual camera how to fix it. If manual focus mode is > available, then > > manually focus the camera. If it is not, perhaps the f/ stop can be > played > > with, in which case you could set it higher than called for, which will > > decrease the shutter speed, so it would be best to use a tripod to > hold the > > camera, or place it on a steady surface. If neither of those options are > > available, Then you might want to look around for another camera. > > > > If I may be so bold, I can make a suggestion that you look at this one: > > http://www.hasselbladusa.com/media/2081132/uk_h4d_datasheet_v3.pdf > <http://www.hasselbladusa.com/media/2081132/uk_h4d_datasheet_v3.pdf> > > > > http://tinyurl.com/ycujcoz <http://tinyurl.com/ycujcoz> > > > > This one should meet most of your needs, and it has a 60 megapixel > CCD. You > > can have it for just under a mere $42,000. > > > > \\Steve// > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On > > Behalf Of Lenny V. aka GoldLenny > > Sent: Friday, November 13, 2009 11:19 AM > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: Aquarium heater sedimentation? > > > > Hmmmm.... then I'm not sure what that could be. I'm looking at the > picture > > again right now and just to be sure we're seeing the same things, > what I'm > > seeing in the picture is an upright glass tube section of the heater > held in > > place by one suction cup clamp and to me, the tannish colored > *stuff* starts > > growing around where the clamp starts and looks kind of thick > downward from > > there but to me, it looks like it's only growing on the front half > of the > > glass heater tube. Let me know if this is what you were trying to take a > > picture of or if it was the darker rust colored streaking above the > clamp? > > If it's the rust colored stuff, I would guess at diatoms but the tannish > > colored stuff is unknown to me and would appear to be some kind of > > fungi/mold. Can you try to get some better pictures. The one you > posted is > > kind of blurry. You might have to back your camera up a little. Many > > cameras, unless they have a macro mode, cannot take really close up > pictures > > and probably have to be at least a foot away from something or it > will come > > out blurry. Some cameras might have to be 2'-3' away. If you have a > local > > university, you could always call their biology department and ask > if you > > could bring a sample to them for physical and/or microscopic > identification, > > in case it's a fungus or mold, most of which are not harmful and > this could > > explain why you are getting this and not your parents. It could have > come > > in on one of your plants. > > > > As far as you pH. If your tap water 48 hour baseline is only 7.1, then > > there is something in the tank that is raising the pH. Silica based > sands > > should be inert but some other types of sand can cause the pH to > rise, such > > as coral and aragonite sands, which are going to have a high calcium > > carbonate level. Where did you get your sand? Here's a simple article > > about the various sands that are commonly used in aquariums. > > http://www.cichlid-forum.com/articles/sand.php > <http://www.cichlid-forum.com/articles/sand.php> Unless you have a > decoration > > or other item that could be leaching hardness into your tank, I would > > strongly suspect the sand but then you mentioned that you had this issue > > before with your gravel. If it is the sand, now you have the > questions on > > whether to keep it or not. Since removing sand is a LOT more work than > > removing gravel and since your tank is planted, you might just want > to go > > with doing more frequent PWC's (partial water changes) and maybe > adding a > > piece of driftwood to the tank. The good news is that a slowly > rising pH is > > not really harmful to fish as much as a dropping pH, although drastic > > changes in either direction (not caused by CO2 levels during > photosynthesis) > > can be harmful. > > > > In the future, you can save some money by NOT buying the Stress-this or > > Slime-that type products. They simply are NOT needed and provide > little or > > no benefit to our tanks... other than adding another chemical > pollutant to > > the closed ecosystem. If your plants need it, the Seachem Flourish > is fine > > to use but is not always necessary either. All I add to my tanks is a > > pro-rata dose of dechlor during each PWC. I use API's Tap Water > Conditioner > > since it's more concentrated than other brands for a lower cost.. > 1ml treats > > 10G where most other dechlors need 5ml or even 10ml for 10G. I do have a > > portion of cuttlebone in each of my filters for slow dosing of calcium > > carbonates to the tanks but that's it for me as far as additives. No > salt. > > No stress-this or slime-that stuff. No pH up, down or around junk. Just > > weekly 25% PWC's, gravel vacuuming and filter cleaning. > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right > > side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, > Month) > > > > > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On > > Behalf Of Jade > > Sent: Thursday, November 12, 2009 4:51 PM > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Aquarium heater sedimentation? > > > > Lenny: IT's actually growing completely around the heater. > > The Ph of my tap is 7.1, after letting it sit. A friend of mine had > > recommended that to me awhile back. No I'm not adding any water > hardeners > > and in fact I removed the gravel of my tank(replaced with natural sand) > > which was increasing the Ph, and added in driftwood. 8.0 is the > lowest it > > seems to go. > > I do not have GH or KH tests... and unfortunately at present cannot > afford > > to buy them. > > > > Steve: My parents had an aquarium for the longest, they never had this > > problem... though in spite of the meticulous care of my tank... it's > always > > there. The only things I add to my tank are Stress Coat +, Stress > Zyme (Once > > a week), and Flourish, though this was happening long before I had live > > plants. It happened in my past tanks as well... maybe the heater > brand could > > be the problem? I had the same brand every time this happened, though I > > doubt the brand would be problematic it's a thought. I've scoured the > > internet for weeks and came up empty-handed. Obviously whatever this > crap > > is, it isn't good for the heater I wouldn't think. When I can manage > to have > > the funds to be able to get a new heater just in case this one > cracks I will > > try to scrape off the...whatever it is. > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>, "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" > <GoldLenny@> > > wrote: > > > > > > OK. From looking at the picture, it looks like this stuff is growing > > > just on the front side of the heater facing the light of the tank... > > > right? If I am seeing it correctly, then this is probably some kind > > > of algae since it's only growing on the lighted side of the heater. > > > I've never seen one that prefers only the HOT temperatures of a heater > > though. > > > > > > As far as your pH goes, is this pH of 8.0 in your tank or right out > > > your tap? I have an article on my blog called "Find Your Tap Water > > > Baseline" and it's a good idea for everyone to do this and know what > > > happens to their tap water. Testing it right out the tap will not > > > give accurate numbers most of the time. The 48 hour baseline is a > > > more accurate number but folks also need to know their right out the > > > tap numbers as they might have to do smaller % PWC's if their > > > right-out-the-tap numbers are a LOT different than their 48 hour > > > baseline and/or actual tank numbers. I'm guessing you're not adding > > anything like crushed coral, other water hardener substances, etc... > > > or do you possibly have a substrate that might have something in it > > > that is leaching hardness into your water in the tank? The 48 hour > > > baseline numbers will tell us more. > > > > > > Do you have GH and KH tests? That will also give us more info. API > > > makes a combo kit for GH and KH that matches with the Master Test Kit > > > and/or other individual kits. If you do, let us know the 48 hour tap > > > water baseline numbers and your tank numbers. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] > > > On Behalf Of Jade > > > Sent: Wednesday, November 11, 2009 8:59 PM > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Aquarium heater sedimentation? > > > > > > > > > Lenny: > > > (answers in parenthesis) > > > > > > How long have you had your tank set up? (About two years now) > > > > > > Do you have this "brown substance) > > > on the gravel, other decorations, glass, etc? (No I do not) > > > > > > Give us more details about your tank. Size, stocking, fish species, > > > etc.(Size - 20 gal long, stocking 9 adult guppies and 2 adolescents.) > > > > > > Give us a little info on your fish keeping skills also. (I've been > > > raising live-bearers for the better part of 12 years now... clarify > > > skills?) > > > > > > What is your pH level and why do you think it is high? Contrary to > > > some of the bottles of crap that some stores sell, you do NOT need a > > > pH of 7.0 in order to keep fish and in fact, a higher or lower pH is > > > often better for many species of fish. > > > (My PH is 8.0, according to the water tester from API (Not the > sticks!!! > > > Vials with the drops... noted far more accurate) I am well aware you > > > don't need a flat ph of 7.0 and in fact some species of freshwater > > > fish prefer high-end PH. Guppies themselves prefer about 7.5)) > > > > > > How did you crack your heater by cleaning it? Did you drop it or > > something? > > > I can't imagine scrubbing it with a brush would break it unless it > > > already had a fracture or stress crack. (Negative, I didn't drop > it, I > > > was using a semi-dull knife to try to get the brown stuff off - the > > > same that is on this heater, and it simply just cracked.) > > > ------------ > > > > > > Steve: > > > Thanks for the tip, I'll try to give it a go when I can get the > razor. > > > Right now I can't afford that much less a new heater. So I think I'll > > > hold off just a bit until I can afford BOTH, just in case, hehe. > > > > > > ------------- > > > Donna: > > > These unfortunately don't just brush away. Sometimes small, solid > > > chunks will fall off, but it's rare. > > > > > > --------- > > > To All : Took a to give you guys some reference as to what it > looks like. > > > The brown thing on the top left is a lily pad, just so you know. See > > > photo link below. > > > > > > http://i352.photobucket.com/albums/r329/Tehzedaj/Picture60.jpg > <http://i352.photobucket.com/albums/r329/Tehzedaj/Picture60.jpg> > > > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>, "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" > > > <GoldLenny@> > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > How long have you had your tank set up? Do you have this "brown > > > > substance) on the gravel, other decorations, glass, etc? > > > > > > > > Give us more details about your tank. Size, stocking, fish species, > > etc. > > > > Give us a little info on your fish keeping skills also. > > > > > > > > What is your pH level and why do you think it is high? Contrary to > > > > some of the bottles of crap that some stores sell, you do NOT > need a > > > > pH of 7.0 in order to keep fish and in fact, a higher or lower > pH is > > > > often better for many species of fish. > > > > > > > > How did you crack your heater by cleaning it? Did you drop it or > > > something? > > > > I can't imagine scrubbing it with a brush would break it unless it > > > > already had a fracture or stress crack. > > > > > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> (Links to any articles > > > > referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, > > > > alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) > > > > > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] > > > > On Behalf Of Jade > > > > Sent: Sunday, November 08, 2009 9:29 PM > > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > Subject: [AquaticLife] Aquarium heater sedimentation? > > > > > > > > I have a hard light brown (tanish) substance covering the tube > of my > > > > aquarium heater... is this sediment? I was wondering if that's > > > > what's causing my high Ph (there's absolutely nothing else in there > > > > that could do it...). How do I clean it off? I've had the problem > > before... > > > > and in attempts to clean it the heater actually cracked (thankfully > > > > it wasn't in the tank at the time.) > > > > > > > > Any ideas/suggestions/help would be appreciated :) > > > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 44547	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 11/15/2009
Subject: Re: 1500 Gallon Outdoor Aquarium Is Not Drive Thru

Yes, I saw her post, and it may have well been hers when I clicked on the link. The problem I have is that I keep reading mail, and click on links, and then, when I get to a link, I may have no idea where it came from. I try to get to all the tabs in the browser by the end of the week, but I have a grateful Dead concert (at Winterland, 3/18/1967, Set 1) to listen to from about two weeks ago, and a Steppenwolf show at Fillmore West from 8/28/1968. Wandering the web can be such tough work. \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Lenny V. aka GoldLenny Sent: Sunday, November 15, 2009 12:00 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] 1500 Gallon Outdoor Aquarium Is Not Drive Thru LOL. Nope, it was the 1,500G Tampa Airport aquarium and I now see that Donna Ransome came forward as the originator of the article last week or so. The magazines I sneak peeks at are not usually displayed on the grocery store check-out racks but I'm only looking at them because I'm interested in the articles! ;-) I heard that Bill O'Reilly is even written about in a recent one, but I do not recall which magazine so I guess I'll have to keep looking through all of them till I find that elusive article. ;-) Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Steve Szabo Sent: Sunday, November 15, 2009 7:47 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] 1500 Gallon Outdoor Aquarium Is Not Drive Thru Are you sure you are not thinking of the outdoor aquarium that was on Craig's List? Or were you too busy looking at all the other women's magazines on the grocery store rack to see if you could find a story to top the one I posted? \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Lenny V. aka GoldLenny Sent: Sunday, November 15, 2009 2:47 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] 1500 Gallon Outdoor Aquarium Is Not Drive Thru You did and we had a vivid, entertaining and enlightening thread about it. You must have been busy reading that Woman's Day magazine and missed it all. LOL Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Steve Szabo Sent: Sunday, November 15, 2009 12:27 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] 1500 Gallon Outdoor Aquarium Is Not Drive Thru I thought I had posted this earlier in the week, but looking over my sent items, it appears I have not. Woman with boy in lap plows truck into TIA wall, damaging an aquarium, killing fish, http://www.tampabay.com/news/publicsafety/accidents/woman-with-boy-in-lap-pl ows-truck-into-tia-wall-destroying-aquarium/1050673 http://tinyurl.com/yhuwsua TAMPA - A woman with a 6-year-old child in her lap crashed her small truck into the side of Tampa International Airport on Monday night, damaging an aquarium outside the American Airlines baggage claim. Tire marks show the 1994 red Ford Ranger's path over the curb and into the tank, barely missing a concrete pole on the left and the airport's tiled wall on the right. . . . \\Steve// ------------------------------------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. 74/`7.88.><((((:>.74/`7.88.74/`7.8><((((:> 8.74/`7.8. , .74/`7..><((((:> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <:((((><.74/`7.88.74/`7.8<:((((><8.74/`7.8. , .74/`7..<:((((><74/`7.88. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the home page. Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com to receive the digest, which includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com for the No E-Mail option where you will still be able to read messages on the group and post replies. Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com to receive individual e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 44548	From: kuradi8	Date: 11/15/2009
Subject: Re: Aquarium heater sedimentation?

And don't aim straight on to the glass. A slight angle helps it focus through the glass, not on it. I have a circa 2005 Sony W5 that I just LOVE for its Zeiss lenses. I bought it second hand off ebay for a song. ~Kai > Amber wrote: > > What I do when I take pictures of my fish/plants is turn on the ROOM > lighting first, then do not stand right next to the tank, you will have > to be a few inches away or it will auto focus on the glass/shine instead > of the fish. Just zoom in (preferably with an optical zoom as digital > zooms are a little blurry). I have a panasonic DMC-LZ5 (it's a few years > old now) and it takes very nice pictures for being a "cheaper" camera > (it's not cheap, but it's not one of the expensive camera's either, I > got mine for less than 200 I think, about 4 years ago). > > Amber > > Jade wrote: > > > > Steve - a 'mere' $42,000 eh? Now where can I get YOUR job? :) > > Though yeah it is out of focus I will work on trying to get a clearer > > shot... the cameras don't tend to like the lighting. > > > > Lenny - I already have a piece of driftwood in the tank, and take > > roughly 2 gallons off 3 times a week, as opposed to a 25% weekly > > change regimen which was insufficient. I am referring to the tannish > > stuff below the clip. The sand is sold out of Ft. Lauderdale, Fl. and > > is all natural, however specifics beyond this I am at a loss for. > > Though my Ph did drop a bit when I put it in after taking out my > > gravel, so I do not think the sand is the cause. I have no ornaments > > in my tank, I simply have my plants, and my driftwood. > > > > As to the stress coat, I use that to remove the very large amounts of > > chlorine we have in our tap water, and it also helps repair damaged > > fins more quickly (in my experience.), some of my guppies get a bit > > nippy towards each other at times. I do agree that the chemicals can > > cause pollution in the ecosystem, however and this again is in my > > experience, the very few I do use are very beneficial and my fish do > > better with it than they ever had done without it, and as this is > > experience based, I am simply stating my view :) I do use the flourish > > every so often, but not very often. My plants have been thriving for > > which I am thankful, as a planted tank makes for a safe haven for fry. > > I will try soon to get you a better photo of the heater when possible. > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>, "Steve Szabo" <steve@> wrote: > > > > > > I noticed the out of focus shot also. I think the problem may be > > with the > > > auto focus focusing on the glass rather than on the heater. It would > > depend > > > on the actual camera how to fix it. If manual focus mode is > > available, then > > > manually focus the camera. If it is not, perhaps the f/ stop can be > > played > > > with, in which case you could set it higher than called for, which will > > > decrease the shutter speed, so it would be best to use a tripod to > > hold the > > > camera, or place it on a steady surface. If neither of those options are > > > available, Then you might want to look around for another camera. > > > > > > If I may be so bold, I can make a suggestion that you look at this one: > > > http://www.hasselbladusa.com/media/2081132/uk_h4d_datasheet_v3.pdf > > <http://www.hasselbladusa.com/media/2081132/uk_h4d_datasheet_v3.pdf> > > > > > > http://tinyurl.com/ycujcoz <http://tinyurl.com/ycujcoz> > > > > > > This one should meet most of your needs, and it has a 60 megapixel > > CCD. You > > > can have it for just under a mere $42,000. > > > > > > \\Steve// > > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On > > > Behalf Of Lenny V. aka GoldLenny > > > Sent: Friday, November 13, 2009 11:19 AM > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: Aquarium heater sedimentation? > > > > > > Hmmmm.... then I'm not sure what that could be. I'm looking at the > > picture > > > again right now and just to be sure we're seeing the same things, > > what I'm > > > seeing in the picture is an upright glass tube section of the heater > > held in > > > place by one suction cup clamp and to me, the tannish colored > > *stuff* starts > > > growing around where the clamp starts and looks kind of thick > > downward from > > > there but to me, it looks like it's only growing on the front half > > of the > > > glass heater tube. Let me know if this is what you were trying to take a > > > picture of or if it was the darker rust colored streaking above the > > clamp? > > > If it's the rust colored stuff, I would guess at diatoms but the tannish > > > colored stuff is unknown to me and would appear to be some kind of > > > fungi/mold. Can you try to get some better pictures. The one you > > posted is > > > kind of blurry. You might have to back your camera up a little. Many > > > cameras, unless they have a macro mode, cannot take really close up > > pictures > > > and probably have to be at least a foot away from something or it > > will come > > > out blurry. Some cameras might have to be 2'-3' away. If you have a > > local > > > university, you could always call their biology department and ask > > if you > > > could bring a sample to them for physical and/or microscopic > > identification, > > > in case it's a fungus or mold, most of which are not harmful and > > this could > > > explain why you are getting this and not your parents. It could have > > come > > > in on one of your plants. > > > > > > As far as you pH. If your tap water 48 hour baseline is only 7.1, then > > > there is something in the tank that is raising the pH. Silica based > > sands > > > should be inert but some other types of sand can cause the pH to > > rise, such > > > as coral and aragonite sands, which are going to have a high calcium > > > carbonate level. Where did you get your sand? Here's a simple article > > > about the various sands that are commonly used in aquariums. > > > http://www.cichlid-forum.com/articles/sand.php > > <http://www.cichlid-forum.com/articles/sand.php> Unless you have a > > decoration > > > or other item that could be leaching hardness into your tank, I would > > > strongly suspect the sand but then you mentioned that you had this issue > > > before with your gravel. If it is the sand, now you have the > > questions on > > > whether to keep it or not. Since removing sand is a LOT more work than > > > removing gravel and since your tank is planted, you might just want > > to go > > > with doing more frequent PWC's (partial water changes) and maybe > > adding a > > > piece of driftwood to the tank. The good news is that a slowly > > rising pH is > > > not really harmful to fish as much as a dropping pH, although drastic > > > changes in either direction (not caused by CO2 levels during > > photosynthesis) > > > can be harmful. > > > > > > In the future, you can save some money by NOT buying the Stress-this or > > > Slime-that type products. They simply are NOT needed and provide > > little or > > > no benefit to our tanks... other than adding another chemical > > pollutant to > > > the closed ecosystem. If your plants need it, the Seachem Flourish > > is fine > > > to use but is not always necessary either. All I add to my tanks is a > > > pro-rata dose of dechlor during each PWC. I use API's Tap Water > > Conditioner > > > since it's more concentrated than other brands for a lower cost.. > > 1ml treats > > > 10G where most other dechlors need 5ml or even 10ml for 10G. I do have a > > > portion of cuttlebone in each of my filters for slow dosing of calcium > > > carbonates to the tanks but that's it for me as far as additives. No > > salt. > > > No stress-this or slime-that stuff. No pH up, down or around junk. Just > > > weekly 25% PWC's, gravel vacuuming and filter cleaning. > > > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right > > > side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, > > Month) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On > > > Behalf Of Jade > > > Sent: Thursday, November 12, 2009 4:51 PM > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Aquarium heater sedimentation? > > > > > > Lenny: IT's actually growing completely around the heater. > > > The Ph of my tap is 7.1, after letting it sit. A friend of mine had > > > recommended that to me awhile back. No I'm not adding any water > > hardeners > > > and in fact I removed the gravel of my tank(replaced with natural sand) > > > which was increasing the Ph, and added in driftwood. 8.0 is the > > lowest it > > > seems to go. > > > I do not have GH or KH tests... and unfortunately at present cannot > > afford > > > to buy them. > > > > > > Steve: My parents had an aquarium for the longest, they never had this > > > problem... though in spite of the meticulous care of my tank... it's > > always > > > there. The only things I add to my tank are Stress Coat +, Stress > > Zyme (Once > > > a week), and Flourish, though this was happening long before I had live > > > plants. It happened in my past tanks as well... maybe the heater > > brand could > > > be the problem? I had the same brand every time this happened, though I > > > doubt the brand would be problematic it's a thought. I've scoured the > > > internet for weeks and came up empty-handed. Obviously whatever this > > crap > > > is, it isn't good for the heater I wouldn't think. When I can manage > > to have > > > the funds to be able to get a new heater just in case this one > > cracks I will > > > try to scrape off the...whatever it is. > > > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>, "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" > > <GoldLenny@> > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > OK. From looking at the picture, it looks like this stuff is growing > > > > just on the front side of the heater facing the light of the tank... > > > > right? If I am seeing it correctly, then this is probably some kind > > > > of algae since it's only growing on the lighted side of the heater. > > > > I've never seen one that prefers only the HOT temperatures of a heater > > > though. > > > > > > > > As far as your pH goes, is this pH of 8.0 in your tank or right out > > > > your tap? I have an article on my blog called "Find Your Tap Water > > > > Baseline" and it's a good idea for everyone to do this and know what > > > > happens to their tap water. Testing it right out the tap will not > > > > give accurate numbers most of the time. The 48 hour baseline is a > > > > more accurate number but folks also need to know their right out the > > > > tap numbers as they might have to do smaller % PWC's if their > > > > right-out-the-tap numbers are a LOT different than their 48 hour > > > > baseline and/or actual tank numbers. I'm guessing you're not adding > > > anything like crushed coral, other water hardener substances, etc... > > > > or do you possibly have a substrate that might have something in it > > > > that is leaching hardness into your water in the tank? The 48 hour > > > > baseline numbers will tell us more. > > > > > > > > Do you have GH and KH tests? That will also give us more info. API > > > > makes a combo kit for GH and KH that matches with the Master Test Kit > > > > and/or other individual kits. If you do, let us know the 48 hour tap > > > > water baseline numbers and your tank numbers. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] > > > > On Behalf Of Jade > > > > Sent: Wednesday, November 11, 2009 8:59 PM > > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Aquarium heater sedimentation? > > > > > > > > > > > > Lenny: > > > > (answers in parenthesis) > > > > > > > > How long have you had your tank set up? (About two years now) > > > > > > > > Do you have this "brown substance) > > > > on the gravel, other decorations, glass, etc? (No I do not) > > > > > > > > Give us more details about your tank. Size, stocking, fish species, > > > > etc.(Size - 20 gal long, stocking 9 adult guppies and 2 adolescents.) > > > > > > > > Give us a little info on your fish keeping skills also. (I've been > > > > raising live-bearers for the better part of 12 years now... clarify > > > > skills?) > > > > > > > > What is your pH level and why do you think it is high? Contrary to > > > > some of the bottles of crap that some stores sell, you do NOT need a > > > > pH of 7.0 in order to keep fish and in fact, a higher or lower pH is > > > > often better for many species of fish. > > > > (My PH is 8.0, according to the water tester from API (Not the > > sticks!!! > > > > Vials with the drops... noted far more accurate) I am well aware you > > > > don't need a flat ph of 7.0 and in fact some species of freshwater > > > > fish prefer high-end PH. Guppies themselves prefer about 7.5)) > > > > > > > > How did you crack your heater by cleaning it? Did you drop it or > > > something? > > > > I can't imagine scrubbing it with a brush would break it unless it > > > > already had a fracture or stress crack. (Negative, I didn't drop > > it, I > > > > was using a semi-dull knife to try to get the brown stuff off - the > > > > same that is on this heater, and it simply just cracked.) > > > > ------------ > > > > > > > > Steve: > > > > Thanks for the tip, I'll try to give it a go when I can get the > > razor. > > > > Right now I can't afford that much less a new heater. So I think I'll > > > > hold off just a bit until I can afford BOTH, just in case, hehe. > > > > > > > > ------------- > > > > Donna: > > > > These unfortunately don't just brush away. Sometimes small, solid > > > > chunks will fall off, but it's rare. > > > > > > > > --------- > > > > To All : Took a to give you guys some reference as to what it > > looks like. > > > > The brown thing on the top left is a lily pad, just so you know. See > > > > photo link below. > > > > > > > > http://i352.photobucket.com/albums/r329/Tehzedaj/Picture60.jpg > > <http://i352.photobucket.com/albums/r329/Tehzedaj/Picture60.jpg> > > > > > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>, "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" > > > > <GoldLenny@> > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > How long have you had your tank set up? Do you have this "brown > > > > > substance) on the gravel, other decorations, glass, etc? > > > > > > > > > > Give us more details about your tank. Size, stocking, fish species, > > > etc. > > > > > Give us a little info on your fish keeping skills also. > > > > > > > > > > What is your pH level and why do you think it is high? Contrary to > > > > > some of the bottles of crap that some stores sell, you do NOT > > need a > > > > > pH of 7.0 in order to keep fish and in fact, a higher or lower > > pH is > > > > > often better for many species of fish. > > > > > > > > > > How did you crack your heater by cleaning it? Did you drop it or > > > > something? > > > > > I can't imagine scrubbing it with a brush would break it unless it > > > > > already had a fracture or stress crack. > > > > > > > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > > > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> (Links to any articles > > > > > referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, > > > > > alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] > > > > > On Behalf Of Jade > > > > > Sent: Sunday, November 08, 2009 9:29 PM > > > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > Subject: [AquaticLife] Aquarium heater sedimentation? > > > > > > > > > > I have a hard light brown (tanish) substance covering the tube > > of my > > > > > aquarium heater... is this sediment? I was wondering if that's > > > > > what's causing my high Ph (there's absolutely nothing else in there > > > > > that could do it...). How do I clean it off? I've had the problem > > > before... > > > > > and in attempts to clean it the heater actually cracked (thankfully > > > > > it wasn't in the tank at the time.) > > > > > > > > > > Any ideas/suggestions/help would be appreciated :) > > > > > > > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 44549	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 11/15/2009
Subject: Re: Aquarium heater sedimentation?

I have to point out that I use stress coat by API, not on purpose, but because my only LFS ONLY buys stress coat, I've asked repeatedly if they would get another type (specifically just the normal API that removes heavy metals) but the owner refuses to get anything different, he "swears by stress coat" *sigh* The reason I have not looked at ordering it online is because I'm a bit on the poorer side this year (trying to refinance my condo, etc), so I'm scraping by (barely). I know that API is cheap online, but it's not cheap to get it here, so unless I can find someone down south that wants to go to their LFS and buy a box full of the stuff THEN send it to me on my fed ex account I'm kinda S.O.L. I can't find an online store that will ship on my fed ex account (even though i could easily tell them how or email them a label to slap on the box, but oh NOOO, they'd lose money, LOL). Anyways, my point was this; Perhaps I'm not the only one with limited access on their tap water conditioners? Walmart sells one here but it's a tiny little bottle and does NOT remove heavy metals (so useless IMO). Besides, even if it did take care of heavy metals, that tiny little bottle wouldn't last long in my 125 gallon tank on a PWC day ;) LOL. Amber Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > > While API is generally a good company and I especially like their API Tap > Water Conditioner for dechlor and heavy metal treatment of tap water, some > of their products are in answer to competition's products, including > Stress > Coat. Stress Coat, according to their *advertisement* has Aloe Vera and > something to increase slime coat (probably just salt, which will cause a > fish to put out more slime coat and also provides chloride which makes > increases gill function... this would be akin to someone sucking on some > extra bottled O2 which is not needed for most folks) > > Here's the MSDS on API Stress Coat - > http://www.aquariumpharm.com/cms/Files/MSDS/Stress_Coat_NG_030907.pdf > <http://www.aquariumpharm.com/cms/Files/MSDS/Stress_Coat_NG_030907.pdf> > (PDF > document) > > The MSDS starts off stating in bold red lettering that it's a hazardous > substance and goes through explaining why. In the composition/ingredients > section 3, it says the three ingredients are "Aloes, extract" between > 1-10%; > non-hazardous proprietary ingredents, between 1-10%; and water >80% (more > than). "proprietary" means they are the companies secret ingredients still > covered by one or more patents so they do not have to disclose them > but you > can be pretty sure they are salt based as salt is a nice cheap > chemical that > provides all of the things that the advertisement claims.... slime > coat and > easier breathing to reduce stress. > > BUT... a pinch of salt per 10G is all that is needed to raise the chloride > level in a tank to where it will provide increased gill function (and also > protect from nitrite poisoning in tanks with nitrite issues from nitrogen > cycle issues). > > If you really want to continue using Stress Coat, go to > http://www.aquariumpharm.com/surveys/Survey.aspx?SurveyID=2 > <http://www.aquariumpharm.com/surveys/Survey.aspx?SurveyID=2> and take the > quick survey and they'll send you a rebate coupon for your next > purchase. I > happened to see this while on the API website. > > The sand from Ft. Lauderdale could be silica based sand BUT it could > also be > coral based sand OR a combination of both since there are plenty of coral > reefs all around southern Florida coastlines, most notably in the Florida > Keys where I spent many vacations diving the many reefs, ship wrecks and > attractions down there. You will have to contact the sand sellers or look > at the bag to see which one you have BUT obviously, you have something in > your tank that is raising your pH to 8.0.... if your 48 hour tap water > baseline testing shows only a 7.1 pH. > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right > side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On > Behalf Of Jade > Sent: Sunday, November 15, 2009 5:57 AM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Aquarium heater sedimentation? > > Steve - a 'mere' $42,000 eh? Now where can I get YOUR job? :) Though > yeah it > is out of focus I will work on trying to get a clearer shot... the cameras > don't tend to like the lighting. > > Lenny - I already have a piece of driftwood in the tank, and take > roughly 2 > gallons off 3 times a week, as opposed to a 25% weekly change regimen > which > was insufficient. I am referring to the tannish stuff below the clip. The > sand is sold out of Ft. Lauderdale, Fl. and is all natural, however > specifics beyond this I am at a loss for. Though my Ph did drop a bit > when I > put it in after taking out my gravel, so I do not think the sand is the > cause. I have no ornaments in my tank, I simply have my plants, and my > driftwood. > > As to the stress coat, I use that to remove the very large amounts of > chlorine we have in our tap water, and it also helps repair damaged fins > more quickly (in my experience.), some of my guppies get a bit nippy > towards > each other at times. I do agree that the chemicals can cause pollution in > the ecosystem, however and this again is in my experience, the very > few I do > use are very beneficial and my fish do better with it than they ever had > done without it, and as this is experience based, I am simply stating my > view :) I do use the flourish every so often, but not very often. My > plants > have been thriving for which I am thankful, as a planted tank makes for a > safe haven for fry. I will try soon to get you a better photo of the > heater > when possible. > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>, "Steve Szabo" <steve@...> wrote: > > > > I noticed the out of focus shot also. I think the problem may be with > > the auto focus focusing on the glass rather than on the heater. It > > would depend on the actual camera how to fix it. If manual focus mode > > is available, then manually focus the camera. If it is not, perhaps > > the f/ stop can be played with, in which case you could set it higher > > than called for, which will decrease the shutter speed, so it would be > > best to use a tripod to hold the camera, or place it on a steady > > surface. If neither of those options are available, Then you might > want to > look around for another camera. > > > > If I may be so bold, I can make a suggestion that you look at this one: > > http://www.hasselbladusa.com/media/2081132/uk_h4d_datasheet_v3.pdf > <http://www.hasselbladusa.com/media/2081132/uk_h4d_datasheet_v3.pdf> > > > > http://tinyurl.com/ycujcoz <http://tinyurl.com/ycujcoz> > > > > This one should meet most of your needs, and it has a 60 megapixel > > CCD. You can have it for just under a mere $42,000. > > > > \\Steve// > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] > > On Behalf Of Lenny V. aka GoldLenny > > Sent: Friday, November 13, 2009 11:19 AM > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: Aquarium heater sedimentation? > > > > Hmmmm.... then I'm not sure what that could be. I'm looking at the > > picture again right now and just to be sure we're seeing the same > > things, what I'm seeing in the picture is an upright glass tube > > section of the heater held in place by one suction cup clamp and to > > me, the tannish colored *stuff* starts growing around where the clamp > > starts and looks kind of thick downward from there but to me, it looks > > like it's only growing on the front half of the glass heater tube. > > Let me know if this is what you were trying to take a picture of or > if it > was the darker rust colored streaking above the clamp? > > If it's the rust colored stuff, I would guess at diatoms but the > > tannish colored stuff is unknown to me and would appear to be some > > kind of fungi/mold. Can you try to get some better pictures. The one > > you posted is kind of blurry. You might have to back your camera up a > > little. Many cameras, unless they have a macro mode, cannot take > > really close up pictures and probably have to be at least a foot away > > from something or it will come out blurry. Some cameras might have to > > be 2'-3' away. If you have a local university, you could always call > > their biology department and ask if you could bring a sample to them > > for physical and/or microscopic identification, in case it's a fungus > > or mold, most of which are not harmful and this could explain why you > > are getting this and not your parents. It could have come in on one of > your plants. > > > > As far as you pH. If your tap water 48 hour baseline is only 7.1, > > then there is something in the tank that is raising the pH. Silica > > based sands should be inert but some other types of sand can cause the > > pH to rise, such as coral and aragonite sands, which are going to have > > a high calcium carbonate level. Where did you get your sand? Here's > > a simple article about the various sands that are commonly used in > aquariums. > > http://www.cichlid-forum.com/articles/sand.php > <http://www.cichlid-forum.com/articles/sand.php> Unless you have a > > decoration or other item that could be leaching hardness into your > > tank, I would strongly suspect the sand but then you mentioned that > > you had this issue before with your gravel. If it is the sand, now > > you have the questions on whether to keep it or not. Since removing > > sand is a LOT more work than removing gravel and since your tank is > > planted, you might just want to go with doing more frequent PWC's > > (partial water changes) and maybe adding a piece of driftwood to the > > tank. The good news is that a slowly rising pH is not really harmful > > to fish as much as a dropping pH, although drastic changes in either > > direction (not caused by CO2 levels during photosynthesis) can be > harmful. > > > > In the future, you can save some money by NOT buying the Stress-this > > or Slime-that type products. They simply are NOT needed and provide > > little or no benefit to our tanks... other than adding another > > chemical pollutant to the closed ecosystem. If your plants need it, > > the Seachem Flourish is fine to use but is not always necessary > > either. All I add to my tanks is a pro-rata dose of dechlor during > > each PWC. I use API's Tap Water Conditioner since it's more > > concentrated than other brands for a lower cost.. 1ml treats 10G where > > most other dechlors need 5ml or even 10ml for 10G. I do have a > > portion of cuttlebone in each of my filters for slow dosing of calcium > carbonates to the tanks but that's it for me as far as additives. No salt. > > No stress-this or slime-that stuff. No pH up, down or around junk. > > Just weekly 25% PWC's, gravel vacuuming and filter cleaning. > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> (Links to any articles > > referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically > > under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) > > > > > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] > > On Behalf Of Jade > > Sent: Thursday, November 12, 2009 4:51 PM > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Aquarium heater sedimentation? > > > > Lenny: IT's actually growing completely around the heater. > > The Ph of my tap is 7.1, after letting it sit. A friend of mine had > > recommended that to me awhile back. No I'm not adding any water > > hardeners and in fact I removed the gravel of my tank(replaced with > > natural sand) which was increasing the Ph, and added in driftwood. 8.0 > > is the lowest it seems to go. > > I do not have GH or KH tests... and unfortunately at present cannot > > afford to buy them. > > > > Steve: My parents had an aquarium for the longest, they never had this > > problem... though in spite of the meticulous care of my tank... it's > > always there. The only things I add to my tank are Stress Coat +, > > Stress Zyme (Once a week), and Flourish, though this was happening > > long before I had live plants. It happened in my past tanks as well... > > maybe the heater brand could be the problem? I had the same brand > > every time this happened, though I doubt the brand would be > > problematic it's a thought. I've scoured the internet for weeks and > > came up empty-handed. Obviously whatever this crap is, it isn't good > > for the heater I wouldn't think. When I can manage to have the funds > > to be able to get a new heater just in case this one cracks I will > try to > scrape off the...whatever it is. > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>, "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" > > <GoldLenny@> > > wrote: > > > > > > OK. From looking at the picture, it looks like this stuff is > > > growing just on the front side of the heater facing the light of the > tank... > > > right? If I am seeing it correctly, then this is probably some kind > > > of algae since it's only growing on the lighted side of the heater. > > > I've never seen one that prefers only the HOT temperatures of a > > > heater > > though. > > > > > > As far as your pH goes, is this pH of 8.0 in your tank or right out > > > your tap? I have an article on my blog called "Find Your Tap Water > > > Baseline" and it's a good idea for everyone to do this and know what > > > happens to their tap water. Testing it right out the tap will not > > > give accurate numbers most of the time. The 48 hour baseline is a > > > more accurate number but folks also need to know their right out the > > > tap numbers as they might have to do smaller % PWC's if their > > > right-out-the-tap numbers are a LOT different than their 48 hour > > > baseline and/or actual tank numbers. I'm guessing you're not adding > > anything like crushed coral, other water hardener substances, etc... > > > or do you possibly have a substrate that might have something in it > > > that is leaching hardness into your water in the tank? The 48 hour > > > baseline numbers will tell us more. > > > > > > Do you have GH and KH tests? That will also give us more info. API > > > makes a combo kit for GH and KH that matches with the Master Test > > > Kit and/or other individual kits. If you do, let us know the 48 > > > hour tap water baseline numbers and your tank numbers. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] > > > On Behalf Of Jade > > > Sent: Wednesday, November 11, 2009 8:59 PM > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Aquarium heater sedimentation? > > > > > > > > > Lenny: > > > (answers in parenthesis) > > > > > > How long have you had your tank set up? (About two years now) > > > > > > Do you have this "brown substance) > > > on the gravel, other decorations, glass, etc? (No I do not) > > > > > > Give us more details about your tank. Size, stocking, fish species, > > > etc.(Size - 20 gal long, stocking 9 adult guppies and 2 > > > adolescents.) > > > > > > Give us a little info on your fish keeping skills also. (I've been > > > raising live-bearers for the better part of 12 years now... clarify > > > skills?) > > > > > > What is your pH level and why do you think it is high? Contrary to > > > some of the bottles of crap that some stores sell, you do NOT need a > > > pH of 7.0 in order to keep fish and in fact, a higher or lower pH is > > > often better for many species of fish. > > > (My PH is 8.0, according to the water tester from API (Not the > sticks!!! > > > Vials with the drops... noted far more accurate) I am well aware you > > > don't need a flat ph of 7.0 and in fact some species of freshwater > > > fish prefer high-end PH. Guppies themselves prefer about 7.5)) > > > > > > How did you crack your heater by cleaning it? Did you drop it or > > something? > > > I can't imagine scrubbing it with a brush would break it unless it > > > already had a fracture or stress crack. (Negative, I didn't drop it, > > > I was using a semi-dull knife to try to get the brown stuff off - > > > the same that is on this heater, and it simply just cracked.) > > > ------------ > > > > > > Steve: > > > Thanks for the tip, I'll try to give it a go when I can get the > razor. > > > Right now I can't afford that much less a new heater. So I think > > > I'll hold off just a bit until I can afford BOTH, just in case, hehe. > > > > > > ------------- > > > Donna: > > > These unfortunately don't just brush away. Sometimes small, solid > > > chunks will fall off, but it's rare. > > > > > > --------- > > > To All : Took a to give you guys some reference as to what it looks > like. > > > The brown thing on the top left is a lily pad, just so you know. See > > > photo link below. > > > > > > http://i352.photobucket.com/albums/r329/Tehzedaj/Picture60.jpg > <http://i352.photobucket.com/albums/r329/Tehzedaj/Picture60.jpg> > > > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>, "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" > > > <GoldLenny@> > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > How long have you had your tank set up? Do you have this "brown > > > > substance) on the gravel, other decorations, glass, etc? > > > > > > > > Give us more details about your tank. Size, stocking, fish > > > > species, > > etc. > > > > Give us a little info on your fish keeping skills also. > > > > > > > > What is your pH level and why do you think it is high? Contrary > > > > to some of the bottles of crap that some stores sell, you do NOT > > > > need a pH of 7.0 in order to keep fish and in fact, a higher or > > > > lower pH is often better for many species of fish. > > > > > > > > How did you crack your heater by cleaning it? Did you drop it or > > > something? > > > > I can't imagine scrubbing it with a brush would break it unless it > > > > already had a fracture or stress crack. > > > > > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> (Links to any articles > > > > referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, > > > > alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, > > > > Month) > > > > > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] > > > > On Behalf Of Jade > > > > Sent: Sunday, November 08, 2009 9:29 PM > > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > Subject: [AquaticLife] Aquarium heater sedimentation? > > > > > > > > I have a hard light brown (tanish) substance covering the tube of > > > > my aquarium heater... is this sediment? I was wondering if that's > > > > what's causing my high Ph (there's absolutely nothing else in > > > > there that could do it...). How do I clean it off? I've had the > > > > problem > > before... > > > > and in attempts to clean it the heater actually cracked > > > > (thankfully it wasn't in the tank at the time.) > > > > > > > > Any ideas/suggestions/help would be appreciated :) > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 44550	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 11/15/2009
Subject: Re: Easily Amused

My betta has a dwarf frog as a companion, and while they typically ignore each other now and then I see my betta displaying at the frog, not sure if he's trying to chase him out of "his" 10 gallon tank or not, but they don't fight, LOL. Does keep them both a bit more active though. Amber kuradi8 wrote: > > Mom will be 90 in a few weeks and the Betta I got her a month or two > ago is her first fish. He is interesting. But now that I've added a > snail to his bowl, Mom is absolutely fascinated by how the two > interact. At first Kala ("Fish") was quite aggressive and she was > upset at how much of a bully he was to Tigu ("Snail.") But now they > have reached a detente. She gasps every time Tigu LEAPS from the > water's edge down to the bottom. We joke that she should have named > him Geronimoooooooo! And we all marvel at how active he is. He motors > around the bowl, up and down, 'round and 'round. The snails in my > Betta bowls are lazy suckers. They hardly move around at all. > > So that's life in the Betta Bowl downstairs. And how easily amused we > all are by them -- especially Mom. > ~Kai > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 44551	From: Menagerie_Manager	Date: 11/15/2009
Subject: Re: Your overgrown with algae tanks useful.

It figures we wouldn't hear about this in Detroit and it's supposed to be here today. DebR and the Three Goldfish (CB, Lucille, and Raven) ----- Original Message ----- From: "Steve Szabo" <steve@...> To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Sunday, November 15, 2009 2:24 AM Subject: [AquaticLife] Your overgrown with algae tanks useful. No more need to worry about algae growing in your tanks. Use it to fuel your car! The Algaeus algae-fueled Prius hits the road. http://www.smartplanet.com/technology/blog/thinking-tech/the-algaeus-algae-f ueled-prius-hits-the-road/1415/ http://tinyurl.com/ob5jcg \\Steve// ------------------------------------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the home page. Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com to receive the digest, which includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com for the No E-Mail option where you will still be able to read messages on the group and post replies. Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com to receive individual e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 44552	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 11/15/2009
Subject: Re: More on Vacuums

I <3 my python ;) LOL. I still use the bucket now and then, but usually on the smaller tanks when I'm just topping off my water (I keep my house temps a little on the warmer side since I have parrots). I'm not sure how fancy the gravel cleaners are compared to the python, but I find it so much easier to not have to move around buckets, especially when I'm doing a water change on my 125 gallon tank, that'd be way too many buckets to move ;) Now I just need to figure out why I don't get enough water pressure out of my kitchen sink to get a vacuum going, it only works upstairs in the bathroom, which seems a waste of water if I'm using it downstairs. Amber Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > > At that price, I'd have to go with a Python (or other similar brand) and > then you won't need the buckets either. A Python (or imitation Python) can > be purchased for around $25.00, the last time I checked. > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right > side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) > > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On > Behalf Of kuradi8 > Sent: Sunday, November 15, 2009 8:33 AM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: More on Vacuums > > Santa balked so I contacted the seller from ebay.uk at > http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=220460202247 > <http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=220460202247> > and Howard > replied with a cheap/slow shipping rate that delivers one of these > WONDERFUL > gravel cleaners to my door for less than US$20. > > For those of you who aren't familiar with these vacuums, they are no > longer > available in the US. And they are FAR SUPERIOR (IMHO) to the ones we have > to choose from either in person or online from US distributors. > > These vacuums come in three models. The GC30 is for small tanks. The GC40 > is suitable for 20+ gallon and fits well into my 21" tall 55g. And > there is > also a GC50 that has an extension for taller tanks. I have had two > GC40s in > the last 25-ish years and HIGHLY recommend them. > > I'm thrilled to be getting a new one as a back-up in case (heaven > forbid) I > break the one I have. > ~Kai > in PA > > > Kai wrote: > > > > I'm sending Santa to ebay.uk: > http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=350111113554 > <http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=350111113554> with > instructions to try to negotiate cheaper shipping from the seller. > > ~Kai > > > > > > > > Lenny wrote: > > > > > > Lucky for you, Santa hits the UK, on Christmas Eve, before crossing > > > the pond to America, so he can pick them up on his way here.... > > > meaning less work for the elves. I hope you caught that part about > > > not seeing them on any U.S./Canada websites, only on UK websites. > > > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> (Links to any articles > > > referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, > > > alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) > > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > Kai wrote: > > > > > > I can't [Brooklyn grammar] believe you found them! =8oO =8oD > > > > > > Yes, I vaguely remember they came in several sizes. I got mine > > > 10-15 years ago, probably from Petland Discounts (Long Island, NY) > > > -- but they were also available in pet departments of discounters > > > like TSS (a chain that has been out of business for close to 20 > > > years.) > > > > > > THANK YOU for finding them! I'm going to put a new one on my Santa > > > List, complete with a pointer to where Santa can find one for me. > > > > > > They're far superior to the ones that are easily available. > > > ~Kai > > > > > > > > > > > > Lenny wrote: > > > > > > > > I spoke too soon in my previous reply. A couple of more pages of > > > > Google Image scanning found this... > > > > > > > > > > > > > http://www.fish-fish-fish.com/?cat=Cleaning_Tools__Nets___Thermome > <http://www.fish-fish-fish.com/?cat=Cleaning_Tools__Nets___Thermome> > > > > ters > > > > > > > > Scroll down to near the bottom to the Tetra-Tec HydroClean gravel > > > > vacuums and the pictures on the GC-40 and GC-50 boxes look like > yours. > > > > This is a UK site so the prices are in Pounds but at least this > > > > looks like yours. They have three models/sizes. I haven't seen > > > > these in any of the only sites in the U.S. > > > > > > > > I did a Google of Tetra-Tec HydroClean and ALL of the top hits had > > > > .UK website addresses. Planning a trip to the UK any time soon? > > > > ;-) > > > > > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> (Links to any articles > > > > referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, > > > > alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, > > > > Month) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > > Kai wrote: > > > > > > > > I've uploaded a couple of pictures of my tank vacuum at > > > > > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife/photos/album/1062797703/ > <http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife/photos/album/1062797703/> > > > > pic/ list and once they're approved, can anyone tell me where to > > > > get another vacuum like that? It's still OK but getting old and I > > > > haven't seen another like it in 10+ years. I sure would hate to > > > > accidentally break it! > > > > > > > > What I like about it is that it's self-priming by pumping it up > > > > and down in the water, the siphon flow is adjustable, it has a > > > > good gravel grate and it unscrews into two pieces for easy cleaning > and storage. > > > > > > > > Obviously, the siphon hose is not pictured. :o) ~Kai > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 44553	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 11/15/2009
Subject: Re: Your overgrown with algae tanks useful.

All I can think of is Jeff Dunham driving a powder blue prius with a 1lb chihuahua on his arm... (yes it's from one of his comedy skits). LOL. Amber Menagerie_Manager wrote: > > It figures we wouldn't hear about this in Detroit and it's supposed to > be here today. > > DebR and the Three Goldfish > (CB, Lucille, and Raven) > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Steve Szabo" <steve@... > <mailto:steve%40familyszabo.com>> > To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>> > Sent: Sunday, November 15, 2009 2:24 AM > Subject: [AquaticLife] Your overgrown with algae tanks useful. > > No more need to worry about algae growing in your tanks. Use it to > fuel your > car! > > The Algaeus algae-fueled Prius hits the road. > http://www.smartplanet.com/technology/blog/thinking-tech/the-algaeus-algae-f > <http://www.smartplanet.com/technology/blog/thinking-tech/the-algaeus-algae-f> > ueled-prius-hits-the-road/1415/ > http://tinyurl.com/ob5jcg <http://tinyurl.com/ob5jcg> > > \\Steve// > > ------------------------------------ > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. > ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> > PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT > important to > the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the > SUBJECT > LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- > <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. > > If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of unsubscribing, > you > can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My Membership" on > the > home page. > > Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:aquaticlife-digest%40yahoogroups.com> to receive the digest, > which > includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email > > Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:aquaticlife-nomail%40yahoogroups.com> for the No E-Mail option > where > you will still be able to read messages on the group and post replies. > > Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:aquaticlife-normal%40yahoogroups.com> to receive individual > e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 44554	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 11/15/2009
Subject: Re: Aquarium heater sedimentation?

Ahh yes fancy lenses are good, I can't remember what kind mine has but I remember it being 'decent' at the time I bought it. My main reason for getting it is it's super fast shutter speeds, at the time I was taking pictures of Rats, and if anyone has tried to take a picture of the cute little critters you'll realize they move VERY fast, and are hard to get a clear shot of ;) Well it turns out my camera was also good for taking fish pictures too ;) I no longer keep/raise rats, but I still have the camera ;) LOL. Amber kuradi8 wrote: > > And don't aim straight on to the glass. A slight angle helps it focus > through the glass, not on it. > > I have a circa 2005 Sony W5 that I just LOVE for its Zeiss lenses. I > bought it second hand off ebay for a song. > ~Kai > > > Amber wrote: > > > > What I do when I take pictures of my fish/plants is turn on the ROOM > > lighting first, then do not stand right next to the tank, you will have > > to be a few inches away or it will auto focus on the glass/shine > instead > > of the fish. Just zoom in (preferably with an optical zoom as digital > > zooms are a little blurry). I have a panasonic DMC-LZ5 (it's a few > years > > old now) and it takes very nice pictures for being a "cheaper" camera > > (it's not cheap, but it's not one of the expensive camera's either, I > > got mine for less than 200 I think, about 4 years ago). > > > > Amber > > > > Jade wrote: > > > > > > Steve - a 'mere' $42,000 eh? Now where can I get YOUR job? :) > > > Though yeah it is out of focus I will work on trying to get a clearer > > > shot... the cameras don't tend to like the lighting. > > > > > > Lenny - I already have a piece of driftwood in the tank, and take > > > roughly 2 gallons off 3 times a week, as opposed to a 25% weekly > > > change regimen which was insufficient. I am referring to the tannish > > > stuff below the clip. The sand is sold out of Ft. Lauderdale, Fl. and > > > is all natural, however specifics beyond this I am at a loss for. > > > Though my Ph did drop a bit when I put it in after taking out my > > > gravel, so I do not think the sand is the cause. I have no ornaments > > > in my tank, I simply have my plants, and my driftwood. > > > > > > As to the stress coat, I use that to remove the very large amounts of > > > chlorine we have in our tap water, and it also helps repair damaged > > > fins more quickly (in my experience.), some of my guppies get a bit > > > nippy towards each other at times. I do agree that the chemicals can > > > cause pollution in the ecosystem, however and this again is in my > > > experience, the very few I do use are very beneficial and my fish do > > > better with it than they ever had done without it, and as this is > > > experience based, I am simply stating my view :) I do use the > flourish > > > every so often, but not very often. My plants have been thriving for > > > which I am thankful, as a planted tank makes for a safe haven for > fry. > > > I will try soon to get you a better photo of the heater when possible. > > > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>, "Steve Szabo" <steve@> wrote: > > > > > > > > I noticed the out of focus shot also. I think the problem may be > > > with the > > > > auto focus focusing on the glass rather than on the heater. It > would > > > depend > > > > on the actual camera how to fix it. If manual focus mode is > > > available, then > > > > manually focus the camera. If it is not, perhaps the f/ stop can be > > > played > > > > with, in which case you could set it higher than called for, > which will > > > > decrease the shutter speed, so it would be best to use a tripod to > > > hold the > > > > camera, or place it on a steady surface. If neither of those > options are > > > > available, Then you might want to look around for another camera. > > > > > > > > If I may be so bold, I can make a suggestion that you look at > this one: > > > > > http://www.hasselbladusa.com/media/2081132/uk_h4d_datasheet_v3.pdf > <http://www.hasselbladusa.com/media/2081132/uk_h4d_datasheet_v3.pdf> > > > > <http://www.hasselbladusa.com/media/2081132/uk_h4d_datasheet_v3.pdf > <http://www.hasselbladusa.com/media/2081132/uk_h4d_datasheet_v3.pdf>> > > > > > > > > http://tinyurl.com/ycujcoz <http://tinyurl.com/ycujcoz> > <http://tinyurl.com/ycujcoz <http://tinyurl.com/ycujcoz>> > > > > > > > > This one should meet most of your needs, and it has a 60 megapixel > > > CCD. You > > > > can have it for just under a mere $42,000. > > > > > > > > \\Steve// > > > > > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On > > > > Behalf Of Lenny V. aka GoldLenny > > > > Sent: Friday, November 13, 2009 11:19 AM > > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: Aquarium heater sedimentation? > > > > > > > > Hmmmm.... then I'm not sure what that could be. I'm looking at the > > > picture > > > > again right now and just to be sure we're seeing the same things, > > > what I'm > > > > seeing in the picture is an upright glass tube section of the > heater > > > held in > > > > place by one suction cup clamp and to me, the tannish colored > > > *stuff* starts > > > > growing around where the clamp starts and looks kind of thick > > > downward from > > > > there but to me, it looks like it's only growing on the front half > > > of the > > > > glass heater tube. Let me know if this is what you were trying > to take a > > > > picture of or if it was the darker rust colored streaking above the > > > clamp? > > > > If it's the rust colored stuff, I would guess at diatoms but the > tannish > > > > colored stuff is unknown to me and would appear to be some kind of > > > > fungi/mold. Can you try to get some better pictures. The one you > > > posted is > > > > kind of blurry. You might have to back your camera up a little. Many > > > > cameras, unless they have a macro mode, cannot take really close up > > > pictures > > > > and probably have to be at least a foot away from something or it > > > will come > > > > out blurry. Some cameras might have to be 2'-3' away. If you have a > > > local > > > > university, you could always call their biology department and ask > > > if you > > > > could bring a sample to them for physical and/or microscopic > > > identification, > > > > in case it's a fungus or mold, most of which are not harmful and > > > this could > > > > explain why you are getting this and not your parents. It could > have > > > come > > > > in on one of your plants. > > > > > > > > As far as you pH. If your tap water 48 hour baseline is only > 7.1, then > > > > there is something in the tank that is raising the pH. Silica based > > > sands > > > > should be inert but some other types of sand can cause the pH to > > > rise, such > > > > as coral and aragonite sands, which are going to have a high calcium > > > > carbonate level. Where did you get your sand? Here's a simple > article > > > > about the various sands that are commonly used in aquariums. > > > > http://www.cichlid-forum.com/articles/sand.php > <http://www.cichlid-forum.com/articles/sand.php> > > > <http://www.cichlid-forum.com/articles/sand.php > <http://www.cichlid-forum.com/articles/sand.php>> Unless you have a > > > decoration > > > > or other item that could be leaching hardness into your tank, I > would > > > > strongly suspect the sand but then you mentioned that you had > this issue > > > > before with your gravel. If it is the sand, now you have the > > > questions on > > > > whether to keep it or not. Since removing sand is a LOT more > work than > > > > removing gravel and since your tank is planted, you might just want > > > to go > > > > with doing more frequent PWC's (partial water changes) and maybe > > > adding a > > > > piece of driftwood to the tank. The good news is that a slowly > > > rising pH is > > > > not really harmful to fish as much as a dropping pH, although > drastic > > > > changes in either direction (not caused by CO2 levels during > > > photosynthesis) > > > > can be harmful. > > > > > > > > In the future, you can save some money by NOT buying the > Stress-this or > > > > Slime-that type products. They simply are NOT needed and provide > > > little or > > > > no benefit to our tanks... other than adding another chemical > > > pollutant to > > > > the closed ecosystem. If your plants need it, the Seachem Flourish > > > is fine > > > > to use but is not always necessary either. All I add to my tanks > is a > > > > pro-rata dose of dechlor during each PWC. I use API's Tap Water > > > Conditioner > > > > since it's more concentrated than other brands for a lower cost.. > > > 1ml treats > > > > 10G where most other dechlors need 5ml or even 10ml for 10G. I > do have a > > > > portion of cuttlebone in each of my filters for slow dosing of > calcium > > > > carbonates to the tanks but that's it for me as far as > additives. No > > > salt. > > > > No stress-this or slime-that stuff. No pH up, down or around > junk. Just > > > > weekly 25% PWC's, gravel vacuuming and filter cleaning. > > > > > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>> > > > > (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on > the right > > > > side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, > > > Month) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On > > > > Behalf Of Jade > > > > Sent: Thursday, November 12, 2009 4:51 PM > > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Aquarium heater sedimentation? > > > > > > > > Lenny: IT's actually growing completely around the heater. > > > > The Ph of my tap is 7.1, after letting it sit. A friend of mine had > > > > recommended that to me awhile back. No I'm not adding any water > > > hardeners > > > > and in fact I removed the gravel of my tank(replaced with > natural sand) > > > > which was increasing the Ph, and added in driftwood. 8.0 is the > > > lowest it > > > > seems to go. > > > > I do not have GH or KH tests... and unfortunately at present cannot > > > afford > > > > to buy them. > > > > > > > > Steve: My parents had an aquarium for the longest, they never > had this > > > > problem... though in spite of the meticulous care of my tank... > it's > > > always > > > > there. The only things I add to my tank are Stress Coat +, Stress > > > Zyme (Once > > > > a week), and Flourish, though this was happening long before I > had live > > > > plants. It happened in my past tanks as well... maybe the heater > > > brand could > > > > be the problem? I had the same brand every time this happened, > though I > > > > doubt the brand would be problematic it's a thought. I've > scoured the > > > > internet for weeks and came up empty-handed. Obviously whatever > this > > > crap > > > > is, it isn't good for the heater I wouldn't think. When I can > manage > > > to have > > > > the funds to be able to get a new heater just in case this one > > > cracks I will > > > > try to scrape off the...whatever it is. > > > > > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>, "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" > > > <GoldLenny@> > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > OK. From looking at the picture, it looks like this stuff is > growing > > > > > just on the front side of the heater facing the light of the > tank... > > > > > right? If I am seeing it correctly, then this is probably some > kind > > > > > of algae since it's only growing on the lighted side of the > heater. > > > > > I've never seen one that prefers only the HOT temperatures of > a heater > > > > though. > > > > > > > > > > As far as your pH goes, is this pH of 8.0 in your tank or > right out > > > > > your tap? I have an article on my blog called "Find Your Tap Water > > > > > Baseline" and it's a good idea for everyone to do this and > know what > > > > > happens to their tap water. Testing it right out the tap will not > > > > > give accurate numbers most of the time. The 48 hour baseline is a > > > > > more accurate number but folks also need to know their right > out the > > > > > tap numbers as they might have to do smaller % PWC's if their > > > > > right-out-the-tap numbers are a LOT different than their 48 hour > > > > > baseline and/or actual tank numbers. I'm guessing you're not > adding > > > > anything like crushed coral, other water hardener substances, etc... > > > > > or do you possibly have a substrate that might have something > in it > > > > > that is leaching hardness into your water in the tank? The 48 hour > > > > > baseline numbers will tell us more. > > > > > > > > > > Do you have GH and KH tests? That will also give us more info. API > > > > > makes a combo kit for GH and KH that matches with the Master > Test Kit > > > > > and/or other individual kits. If you do, let us know the 48 > hour tap > > > > > water baseline numbers and your tank numbers. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] > > > > > On Behalf Of Jade > > > > > Sent: Wednesday, November 11, 2009 8:59 PM > > > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Aquarium heater sedimentation? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Lenny: > > > > > (answers in parenthesis) > > > > > > > > > > How long have you had your tank set up? (About two years now) > > > > > > > > > > Do you have this "brown substance) > > > > > on the gravel, other decorations, glass, etc? (No I do not) > > > > > > > > > > Give us more details about your tank. Size, stocking, fish > species, > > > > > etc.(Size - 20 gal long, stocking 9 adult guppies and 2 > adolescents.) > > > > > > > > > > Give us a little info on your fish keeping skills also. (I've been > > > > > raising live-bearers for the better part of 12 years now... > clarify > > > > > skills?) > > > > > > > > > > What is your pH level and why do you think it is high? Contrary to > > > > > some of the bottles of crap that some stores sell, you do NOT > need a > > > > > pH of 7.0 in order to keep fish and in fact, a higher or lower > pH is > > > > > often better for many species of fish. > > > > > (My PH is 8.0, according to the water tester from API (Not the > > > sticks!!! > > > > > Vials with the drops... noted far more accurate) I am well > aware you > > > > > don't need a flat ph of 7.0 and in fact some species of freshwater > > > > > fish prefer high-end PH. Guppies themselves prefer about 7.5)) > > > > > > > > > > How did you crack your heater by cleaning it? Did you drop it or > > > > something? > > > > > I can't imagine scrubbing it with a brush would break it unless it > > > > > already had a fracture or stress crack. (Negative, I didn't drop > > > it, I > > > > > was using a semi-dull knife to try to get the brown stuff off > - the > > > > > same that is on this heater, and it simply just cracked.) > > > > > ------------ > > > > > > > > > > Steve: > > > > > Thanks for the tip, I'll try to give it a go when I can get the > > > razor. > > > > > Right now I can't afford that much less a new heater. So I > think I'll > > > > > hold off just a bit until I can afford BOTH, just in case, hehe. > > > > > > > > > > ------------- > > > > > Donna: > > > > > These unfortunately don't just brush away. Sometimes small, solid > > > > > chunks will fall off, but it's rare. > > > > > > > > > > --------- > > > > > To All : Took a to give you guys some reference as to what it > > > looks like. > > > > > The brown thing on the top left is a lily pad, just so you > know. See > > > > > photo link below. > > > > > > > > > > http://i352.photobucket.com/albums/r329/Tehzedaj/Picture60.jpg > <http://i352.photobucket.com/albums/r329/Tehzedaj/Picture60.jpg> > > > <http://i352.photobucket.com/albums/r329/Tehzedaj/Picture60.jpg > <http://i352.photobucket.com/albums/r329/Tehzedaj/Picture60.jpg>> > > > > > > > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>, "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" > > > > > <GoldLenny@> > > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > How long have you had your tank set up? Do you have this "brown > > > > > > substance) on the gravel, other decorations, glass, etc? > > > > > > > > > > > > Give us more details about your tank. Size, stocking, fish > species, > > > > etc. > > > > > > Give us a little info on your fish keeping skills also. > > > > > > > > > > > > What is your pH level and why do you think it is high? > Contrary to > > > > > > some of the bottles of crap that some stores sell, you do NOT > > > need a > > > > > > pH of 7.0 in order to keep fish and in fact, a higher or lower > > > pH is > > > > > > often better for many species of fish. > > > > > > > > > > > > How did you crack your heater by cleaning it? Did you drop it or > > > > > something? > > > > > > I can't imagine scrubbing it with a brush would break it > unless it > > > > > > already had a fracture or stress crack. > > > > > > > > > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > > > > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>> > (Links to any articles > > > > > > referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, > > > > > > alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, > Month) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > > > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] > > > > > > On Behalf Of Jade > > > > > > Sent: Sunday, November 08, 2009 9:29 PM > > > > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > Subject: [AquaticLife] Aquarium heater sedimentation? > > > > > > > > > > > > I have a hard light brown (tanish) substance covering the tube > > > of my > > > > > > aquarium heater... is this sediment? I was wondering if that's > > > > > > what's causing my high Ph (there's absolutely nothing else > in there > > > > > > that could do it...). How do I clean it off? I've had the > problem > > > > before... > > > > > > and in attempts to clean it the heater actually cracked > (thankfully > > > > > > it wasn't in the tank at the time.) > > > > > > > > > > > > Any ideas/suggestions/help would be appreciated :) > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 44555	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 11/15/2009
Subject: Re: More on Vacuums

Yeah. I have one of those kitchen faucets also.... so I use my Python on my bathroom sink. I also have a fancy bathroom faucet so I did have to buy a little chrome plated adaptor from a mom & pop plumbing parts store. You can see a picture of the adaptor here... http://pets.webshots.com/photo/2788137470070613611nwOYIJ My bathrooms are closer to my tanks anyhow. I guess that same farmer also came up with "If it ain't broke, don't fix it!" ;-) Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of kuradi8 Sent: Sunday, November 15, 2009 11:19 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: More on Vacuums "What the farmer don't know, the farmer don't want." This GC40 gravel vac is a known-good and something that I know and trust and like. Besides, the Python won't fit onto my kitchen faucet. I have one of those pull-out deals. ~Kai > Lenny wrote: > > At that price, I'd have to go with a Python (or other similar brand) > and then you won't need the buckets either. A Python (or imitation > Python) can be purchased for around $25.00, the last time I checked. > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles > referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically > under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) > > > -----Original Message----- > Kai wrote: > > Santa balked so I contacted the seller from ebay.uk at > http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=220460202247 and > Howard replied with a cheap/slow shipping rate that delivers one of > these WONDERFUL gravel cleaners to my door for less than US$20. > > For those of you who aren't familiar with these vacuums, they are no > longer available in the US. And they are FAR SUPERIOR (IMHO) to the > ones we have to choose from either in person or online from US distributors. > > These vacuums come in three models. The GC30 is for small tanks. The > GC40 is suitable for 20+ gallon and fits well into my 21" tall 55g. > And there is also a GC50 that has an extension for taller tanks. I > have had two GC40s in the last 25-ish years and HIGHLY recommend them. > > I'm thrilled to be getting a new one as a back-up in case (heaven > forbid) I break the one I have. > ~Kai > in PA > > > > > > Kai wrote: > > > > I'm sending Santa to ebay.uk: > http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=350111113554 with > instructions to try to negotiate cheaper shipping from the seller. > > ~Kai > > > > > > > > Lenny wrote: > > > > > > Lucky for you, Santa hits the UK, on Christmas Eve, before > > > crossing the pond to America, so he can pick them up on his way here.... > > > meaning less work for the elves. I hope you caught that part > > > about not seeing them on any U.S./Canada websites, only on UK websites. > > > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles > > > referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, > > > alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, > > > Month) > > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > Kai wrote: > > > > > > I can't [Brooklyn grammar] believe you found them! =8oO =8oD > > > > > > Yes, I vaguely remember they came in several sizes. I got mine > > > 10-15 years ago, probably from Petland Discounts (Long Island, NY) > > > -- but they were also available in pet departments of discounters > > > like TSS (a chain that has been out of business for close to 20 > > > years.) > > > > > > THANK YOU for finding them! I'm going to put a new one on my > > > Santa List, complete with a pointer to where Santa can find one for me. > > > > > > They're far superior to the ones that are easily available. > > > ~Kai > > > > > > > > > > > > Lenny wrote: > > > > > > > > I spoke too soon in my previous reply. A couple of more pages > > > > of Google Image scanning found this... > > > > > > > > > > > > http://www.fish-fish-fish.com/?cat=Cleaning_Tools__Nets___Thermo > > > > me > > > > ters > > > > > > > > Scroll down to near the bottom to the Tetra-Tec HydroClean > > > > gravel vacuums and the pictures on the GC-40 and GC-50 boxes look like yours. > > > > This is a UK site so the prices are in Pounds but at least this > > > > looks like yours. They have three models/sizes. I haven't seen > > > > these in any of the only sites in the U.S. > > > > > > > > I did a Google of Tetra-Tec HydroClean and ALL of the top hits > > > > had .UK website addresses. Planning a trip to the UK any time soon? > > > > ;-) > > > > > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles > > > > referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, > > > > alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, > > > > Month) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > > Kai wrote: > > > > > > > > I've uploaded a couple of pictures of my tank vacuum at > > > > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife/photos/album/106279770 > > > > 3/ pic/ list and once they're approved, can anyone tell me where > > > > to get another vacuum like that? It's still OK but getting old > > > > and I haven't seen another like it in 10+ years. I sure would > > > > hate to accidentally break it! > > > > > > > > What I like about it is that it's self-priming by pumping it up > > > > and down in the water, the siphon flow is adjustable, it has a > > > > good gravel grate and it unscrews into two pieces for easy > > > > cleaning > and storage. > > > > > > > > Obviously, the siphon hose is not pictured. :o) ~Kai

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 44556	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 11/15/2009
Subject: Re: 1500 Gallon Outdoor Aquarium Is Not Drive Thru

Just watch out for them flashbacks. ;-) So.... when you go bald on top, will you still keep working the ponytail? :-P Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Steve Szabo Sent: Sunday, November 15, 2009 11:51 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] 1500 Gallon Outdoor Aquarium Is Not Drive Thru Yes, I saw her post, and it may have well been hers when I clicked on the link. The problem I have is that I keep reading mail, and click on links, and then, when I get to a link, I may have no idea where it came from. I try to get to all the tabs in the browser by the end of the week, but I have a grateful Dead concert (at Winterland, 3/18/1967, Set 1) to listen to from about two weeks ago, and a Steppenwolf show at Fillmore West from 8/28/1968. Wandering the web can be such tough work. \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Lenny V. aka GoldLenny Sent: Sunday, November 15, 2009 12:00 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] 1500 Gallon Outdoor Aquarium Is Not Drive Thru LOL. Nope, it was the 1,500G Tampa Airport aquarium and I now see that Donna Ransome came forward as the originator of the article last week or so. The magazines I sneak peeks at are not usually displayed on the grocery store check-out racks but I'm only looking at them because I'm interested in the articles! ;-) I heard that Bill O'Reilly is even written about in a recent one, but I do not recall which magazine so I guess I'll have to keep looking through all of them till I find that elusive article. ;-) Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Steve Szabo Sent: Sunday, November 15, 2009 7:47 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] 1500 Gallon Outdoor Aquarium Is Not Drive Thru Are you sure you are not thinking of the outdoor aquarium that was on Craig's List? Or were you too busy looking at all the other women's magazines on the grocery store rack to see if you could find a story to top the one I posted? \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Lenny V. aka GoldLenny Sent: Sunday, November 15, 2009 2:47 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] 1500 Gallon Outdoor Aquarium Is Not Drive Thru You did and we had a vivid, entertaining and enlightening thread about it. You must have been busy reading that Woman's Day magazine and missed it all. LOL Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Steve Szabo Sent: Sunday, November 15, 2009 12:27 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] 1500 Gallon Outdoor Aquarium Is Not Drive Thru I thought I had posted this earlier in the week, but looking over my sent items, it appears I have not. Woman with boy in lap plows truck into TIA wall, damaging an aquarium, killing fish, http://www.tampabay.com/news/publicsafety/accidents/woman-with-boy-in-lap-pl ows-truck-into-tia-wall-destroying-aquarium/1050673 http://tinyurl.com/yhuwsua TAMPA - A woman with a 6-year-old child in her lap crashed her small truck into the side of Tampa International Airport on Monday night, damaging an aquarium outside the American Airlines baggage claim. Tire marks show the 1994 red Ford Ranger's path over the curb and into the tank, barely missing a concrete pole on the left and the airport's tiled wall on the right. . . . \\Steve//

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 44557	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 11/15/2009
Subject: Re: Aquarium heater sedimentation?

I'd offer but none of my local stores sell the API T.W.C. for a low price like I can get it online or they don't even sell the 16 oz. bottle and the 4 oz. bottle is just as much at the stores. I'll try to think of you next time I'm ordering from DFS (where it's only around $5.00 for a 16 oz. bottle, which would last you a year or two even with your MTS) but then, how much would FEDEX charge you to receive it? Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Amber Berglund Sent: Sunday, November 15, 2009 11:56 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: Aquarium heater sedimentation? I have to point out that I use stress coat by API, not on purpose, but because my only LFS ONLY buys stress coat, I've asked repeatedly if they would get another type (specifically just the normal API that removes heavy metals) but the owner refuses to get anything different, he "swears by stress coat" *sigh* The reason I have not looked at ordering it online is because I'm a bit on the poorer side this year (trying to refinance my condo, etc), so I'm scraping by (barely). I know that API is cheap online, but it's not cheap to get it here, so unless I can find someone down south that wants to go to their LFS and buy a box full of the stuff THEN send it to me on my fed ex account I'm kinda S.O.L. I can't find an online store that will ship on my fed ex account (even though i could easily tell them how or email them a label to slap on the box, but oh NOOO, they'd lose money, LOL). Anyways, my point was this; Perhaps I'm not the only one with limited access on their tap water conditioners? Walmart sells one here but it's a tiny little bottle and does NOT remove heavy metals (so useless IMO). Besides, even if it did take care of heavy metals, that tiny little bottle wouldn't last long in my 125 gallon tank on a PWC day ;) LOL. Amber Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > > While API is generally a good company and I especially like their API > Tap Water Conditioner for dechlor and heavy metal treatment of tap > water, some of their products are in answer to competition's products, > including Stress Coat. Stress Coat, according to their *advertisement* > has Aloe Vera and something to increase slime coat (probably just > salt, which will cause a fish to put out more slime coat and also > provides chloride which makes increases gill function... this would be > akin to someone sucking on some extra bottled O2 which is not needed > for most folks) > > Here's the MSDS on API Stress Coat - > http://www.aquariumpharm.com/cms/Files/MSDS/Stress_Coat_NG_030907.pdf > <http://www.aquariumpharm.com/cms/Files/MSDS/Stress_Coat_NG_030907.pdf > > > (PDF > document) > > The MSDS starts off stating in bold red lettering that it's a > hazardous substance and goes through explaining why. In the > composition/ingredients section 3, it says the three ingredients are > "Aloes, extract" between 1-10%; non-hazardous proprietary ingredents, > between 1-10%; and water >80% (more than). "proprietary" means they > are the companies secret ingredients still covered by one or more > patents so they do not have to disclose them but you can be pretty > sure they are salt based as salt is a nice cheap chemical that > provides all of the things that the advertisement claims.... slime > coat and easier breathing to reduce stress. > > BUT... a pinch of salt per 10G is all that is needed to raise the > chloride level in a tank to where it will provide increased gill > function (and also protect from nitrite poisoning in tanks with > nitrite issues from nitrogen cycle issues). > > If you really want to continue using Stress Coat, go to > http://www.aquariumpharm.com/surveys/Survey.aspx?SurveyID=2 > <http://www.aquariumpharm.com/surveys/Survey.aspx?SurveyID=2> and take > the quick survey and they'll send you a rebate coupon for your next > purchase. I happened to see this while on the API website. > > The sand from Ft. Lauderdale could be silica based sand BUT it could > also be coral based sand OR a combination of both since there are > plenty of coral reefs all around southern Florida coastlines, most > notably in the Florida Keys where I spent many vacations diving the > many reefs, ship wrecks and attractions down there. You will have to > contact the sand sellers or look at the bag to see which one you have > BUT obviously, you have something in your tank that is raising your pH > to 8.0.... if your 48 hour tap water baseline testing shows only a 7.1 > pH. > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> (Links to any articles referenced in > above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels > and also under Archives by Year, Month) > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On Behalf Of Jade > Sent: Sunday, November 15, 2009 5:57 AM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Aquarium heater sedimentation? > > Steve - a 'mere' $42,000 eh? Now where can I get YOUR job? :) Though > yeah it is out of focus I will work on trying to get a clearer shot... > the cameras don't tend to like the lighting. > > Lenny - I already have a piece of driftwood in the tank, and take > roughly 2 gallons off 3 times a week, as opposed to a 25% weekly > change regimen which was insufficient. I am referring to the tannish > stuff below the clip. The sand is sold out of Ft. Lauderdale, Fl. and > is all natural, however specifics beyond this I am at a loss for. > Though my Ph did drop a bit when I put it in after taking out my > gravel, so I do not think the sand is the cause. I have no ornaments > in my tank, I simply have my plants, and my driftwood. > > As to the stress coat, I use that to remove the very large amounts of > chlorine we have in our tap water, and it also helps repair damaged > fins more quickly (in my experience.), some of my guppies get a bit > nippy towards each other at times. I do agree that the chemicals can > cause pollution in the ecosystem, however and this again is in my > experience, the very few I do use are very beneficial and my fish do > better with it than they ever had done without it, and as this is > experience based, I am simply stating my view :) I do use the flourish > every so often, but not very often. My plants have been thriving for > which I am thankful, as a planted tank makes for a safe haven for fry. > I will try soon to get you a better photo of the heater when possible. > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>, "Steve Szabo" <steve@...> wrote: > > > > I noticed the out of focus shot also. I think the problem may be > > with the auto focus focusing on the glass rather than on the heater. > > It would depend on the actual camera how to fix it. If manual focus > > mode is available, then manually focus the camera. If it is not, > > perhaps the f/ stop can be played with, in which case you could set > > it higher than called for, which will decrease the shutter speed, so > > it would be best to use a tripod to hold the camera, or place it on > > a steady surface. If neither of those options are available, Then > > you might > want to > look around for another camera. > > > > If I may be so bold, I can make a suggestion that you look at this one: > > http://www.hasselbladusa.com/media/2081132/uk_h4d_datasheet_v3.pdf > <http://www.hasselbladusa.com/media/2081132/uk_h4d_datasheet_v3.pdf> > > > > http://tinyurl.com/ycujcoz <http://tinyurl.com/ycujcoz> > > > > This one should meet most of your needs, and it has a 60 megapixel > > CCD. You can have it for just under a mere $42,000. > > > > \\Steve// > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] > > On Behalf Of Lenny V. aka GoldLenny > > Sent: Friday, November 13, 2009 11:19 AM > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: Aquarium heater sedimentation? > > > > Hmmmm.... then I'm not sure what that could be. I'm looking at the > > picture again right now and just to be sure we're seeing the same > > things, what I'm seeing in the picture is an upright glass tube > > section of the heater held in place by one suction cup clamp and to > > me, the tannish colored *stuff* starts growing around where the > > clamp starts and looks kind of thick downward from there but to me, > > it looks like it's only growing on the front half of the glass heater tube. > > Let me know if this is what you were trying to take a picture of or > if it > was the darker rust colored streaking above the clamp? > > If it's the rust colored stuff, I would guess at diatoms but the > > tannish colored stuff is unknown to me and would appear to be some > > kind of fungi/mold. Can you try to get some better pictures. The one > > you posted is kind of blurry. You might have to back your camera up > > a little. Many cameras, unless they have a macro mode, cannot take > > really close up pictures and probably have to be at least a foot > > away from something or it will come out blurry. Some cameras might > > have to be 2'-3' away. If you have a local university, you could > > always call their biology department and ask if you could bring a > > sample to them for physical and/or microscopic identification, in > > case it's a fungus or mold, most of which are not harmful and this > > could explain why you are getting this and not your parents. It > > could have come in on one of > your plants. > > > > As far as you pH. If your tap water 48 hour baseline is only 7.1, > > then there is something in the tank that is raising the pH. Silica > > based sands should be inert but some other types of sand can cause > > the pH to rise, such as coral and aragonite sands, which are going > > to have a high calcium carbonate level. Where did you get your sand? > > Here's a simple article about the various sands that are commonly > > used in > aquariums. > > http://www.cichlid-forum.com/articles/sand.php > <http://www.cichlid-forum.com/articles/sand.php> Unless you have a > > decoration or other item that could be leaching hardness into your > > tank, I would strongly suspect the sand but then you mentioned that > > you had this issue before with your gravel. If it is the sand, now > > you have the questions on whether to keep it or not. Since removing > > sand is a LOT more work than removing gravel and since your tank is > > planted, you might just want to go with doing more frequent PWC's > > (partial water changes) and maybe adding a piece of driftwood to the > > tank. The good news is that a slowly rising pH is not really harmful > > to fish as much as a dropping pH, although drastic changes in either > > direction (not caused by CO2 levels during photosynthesis) can be > harmful. > > > > In the future, you can save some money by NOT buying the Stress-this > > or Slime-that type products. They simply are NOT needed and provide > > little or no benefit to our tanks... other than adding another > > chemical pollutant to the closed ecosystem. If your plants need it, > > the Seachem Flourish is fine to use but is not always necessary > > either. All I add to my tanks is a pro-rata dose of dechlor during > > each PWC. I use API's Tap Water Conditioner since it's more > > concentrated than other brands for a lower cost.. 1ml treats 10G > > where most other dechlors need 5ml or even 10ml for 10G. I do have a > > portion of cuttlebone in each of my filters for slow dosing of > > calcium > carbonates to the tanks but that's it for me as far as additives. No salt. > > No stress-this or slime-that stuff. No pH up, down or around junk. > > Just weekly 25% PWC's, gravel vacuuming and filter cleaning. > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> (Links to any articles > > referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, > > alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) > > > > > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] > > On Behalf Of Jade > > Sent: Thursday, November 12, 2009 4:51 PM > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Aquarium heater sedimentation? > > > > Lenny: IT's actually growing completely around the heater. > > The Ph of my tap is 7.1, after letting it sit. A friend of mine had > > recommended that to me awhile back. No I'm not adding any water > > hardeners and in fact I removed the gravel of my tank(replaced with > > natural sand) which was increasing the Ph, and added in driftwood. > > 8.0 is the lowest it seems to go. > > I do not have GH or KH tests... and unfortunately at present cannot > > afford to buy them. > > > > Steve: My parents had an aquarium for the longest, they never had > > this problem... though in spite of the meticulous care of my tank... > > it's always there. The only things I add to my tank are Stress Coat > > +, Stress Zyme (Once a week), and Flourish, though this was > > happening long before I had live plants. It happened in my past tanks as well... > > maybe the heater brand could be the problem? I had the same brand > > every time this happened, though I doubt the brand would be > > problematic it's a thought. I've scoured the internet for weeks and > > came up empty-handed. Obviously whatever this crap is, it isn't good > > for the heater I wouldn't think. When I can manage to have the funds > > to be able to get a new heater just in case this one cracks I will > try to > scrape off the...whatever it is. > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>, "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" > > <GoldLenny@> > > wrote: > > > > > > OK. From looking at the picture, it looks like this stuff is > > > growing just on the front side of the heater facing the light of > > > the > tank... > > > right? If I am seeing it correctly, then this is probably some > > > kind of algae since it's only growing on the lighted side of the heater. > > > I've never seen one that prefers only the HOT temperatures of a > > > heater > > though. > > > > > > As far as your pH goes, is this pH of 8.0 in your tank or right > > > out your tap? I have an article on my blog called "Find Your Tap > > > Water Baseline" and it's a good idea for everyone to do this and > > > know what happens to their tap water. Testing it right out the tap > > > will not give accurate numbers most of the time. The 48 hour > > > baseline is a more accurate number but folks also need to know > > > their right out the tap numbers as they might have to do smaller % > > > PWC's if their right-out-the-tap numbers are a LOT different than > > > their 48 hour baseline and/or actual tank numbers. I'm guessing > > > you're not adding > > anything like crushed coral, other water hardener substances, etc... > > > or do you possibly have a substrate that might have something in > > > it that is leaching hardness into your water in the tank? The 48 > > > hour baseline numbers will tell us more. > > > > > > Do you have GH and KH tests? That will also give us more info. API > > > makes a combo kit for GH and KH that matches with the Master Test > > > Kit and/or other individual kits. If you do, let us know the 48 > > > hour tap water baseline numbers and your tank numbers. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] > > > On Behalf Of Jade > > > Sent: Wednesday, November 11, 2009 8:59 PM > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Aquarium heater sedimentation? > > > > > > > > > Lenny: > > > (answers in parenthesis) > > > > > > How long have you had your tank set up? (About two years now) > > > > > > Do you have this "brown substance) on the gravel, other > > > decorations, glass, etc? (No I do not) > > > > > > Give us more details about your tank. Size, stocking, fish > > > species, etc.(Size - 20 gal long, stocking 9 adult guppies and 2 > > > adolescents.) > > > > > > Give us a little info on your fish keeping skills also. (I've been > > > raising live-bearers for the better part of 12 years now... > > > clarify > > > skills?) > > > > > > What is your pH level and why do you think it is high? Contrary to > > > some of the bottles of crap that some stores sell, you do NOT need > > > a pH of 7.0 in order to keep fish and in fact, a higher or lower > > > pH is often better for many species of fish. > > > (My PH is 8.0, according to the water tester from API (Not the > sticks!!! > > > Vials with the drops... noted far more accurate) I am well aware > > > you don't need a flat ph of 7.0 and in fact some species of > > > freshwater fish prefer high-end PH. Guppies themselves prefer > > > about 7.5)) > > > > > > How did you crack your heater by cleaning it? Did you drop it or > > something? > > > I can't imagine scrubbing it with a brush would break it unless it > > > already had a fracture or stress crack. (Negative, I didn't drop > > > it, I was using a semi-dull knife to try to get the brown stuff > > > off - the same that is on this heater, and it simply just > > > cracked.) > > > ------------ > > > > > > Steve: > > > Thanks for the tip, I'll try to give it a go when I can get the > razor. > > > Right now I can't afford that much less a new heater. So I think > > > I'll hold off just a bit until I can afford BOTH, just in case, hehe. > > > > > > ------------- > > > Donna: > > > These unfortunately don't just brush away. Sometimes small, solid > > > chunks will fall off, but it's rare. > > > > > > --------- > > > To All : Took a to give you guys some reference as to what it > > > looks > like. > > > The brown thing on the top left is a lily pad, just so you know. > > > See photo link below. > > > > > > http://i352.photobucket.com/albums/r329/Tehzedaj/Picture60.jpg > <http://i352.photobucket.com/albums/r329/Tehzedaj/Picture60.jpg> > > > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>, "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" > > > <GoldLenny@> > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > How long have you had your tank set up? Do you have this "brown > > > > substance) on the gravel, other decorations, glass, etc? > > > > > > > > Give us more details about your tank. Size, stocking, fish > > > > species, > > etc. > > > > Give us a little info on your fish keeping skills also. > > > > > > > > What is your pH level and why do you think it is high? Contrary > > > > to some of the bottles of crap that some stores sell, you do NOT > > > > need a pH of 7.0 in order to keep fish and in fact, a higher or > > > > lower pH is often better for many species of fish. > > > > > > > > How did you crack your heater by cleaning it? Did you drop it or > > > something? > > > > I can't imagine scrubbing it with a brush would break it unless > > > > it already had a fracture or stress crack. > > > > > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> (Links to any articles > > > > referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, > > > > alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, > > > > Month) > > > > > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] > > > > On Behalf Of Jade > > > > Sent: Sunday, November 08, 2009 9:29 PM > > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > Subject: [AquaticLife] Aquarium heater sedimentation? > > > > > > > > I have a hard light brown (tanish) substance covering the tube > > > > of my aquarium heater... is this sediment? I was wondering if > > > > that's what's causing my high Ph (there's absolutely nothing > > > > else in there that could do it...). How do I clean it off? I've > > > > had the problem > > before... > > > > and in attempts to clean it the heater actually cracked > > > > (thankfully it wasn't in the tank at the time.) > > > > > > > > Any ideas/suggestions/help would be appreciated :)

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 44558	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 11/15/2009
Subject: Re: Aquarium heater sedimentation?

I get 75% off of my fed ex charges, so if the box was only a couple pounds it'd be about 15 or less to send it to me. Amber Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > > I'd offer but none of my local stores sell the API T.W.C. for a low price > like I can get it online or they don't even sell the 16 oz. bottle and > the 4 > oz. bottle is just as much at the stores. I'll try to think of you next > time I'm ordering from DFS (where it's only around $5.00 for a 16 oz. > bottle, which would last you a year or two even with your MTS) but > then, how > much would FEDEX charge you to receive it? > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right > side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) > > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On > Behalf Of Amber Berglund > Sent: Sunday, November 15, 2009 11:56 AM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: Aquarium heater sedimentation? > > I have to point out that I use stress coat by API, not on purpose, but > because my only LFS ONLY buys stress coat, I've asked repeatedly if they > would get another type (specifically just the normal API that removes > heavy > metals) but the owner refuses to get anything different, he "swears by > stress coat" *sigh* The reason I have not looked at ordering it online is > because I'm a bit on the poorer side this year (trying to refinance my > condo, etc), so I'm scraping by (barely). I know that API is cheap online, > but it's not cheap to get it here, so unless I can find someone down south > that wants to go to their LFS and buy a box full of the stuff THEN send it > to me on my fed ex account I'm kinda S.O.L. I can't find an online store > that will ship on my fed ex account (even though i could easily tell them > how or email them a label to slap on the box, but oh NOOO, they'd lose > money, LOL). > Anyways, my point was this; Perhaps I'm not the only one with limited > access > on their tap water conditioners? > Walmart sells one here but it's a tiny little bottle and does NOT remove > heavy metals (so useless IMO). Besides, even if it did take care of heavy > metals, that tiny little bottle wouldn't last long in my 125 gallon > tank on > a PWC day ;) LOL. > > Amber > > Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > > > > While API is generally a good company and I especially like their API > > Tap Water Conditioner for dechlor and heavy metal treatment of tap > > water, some of their products are in answer to competition's products, > > including Stress Coat. Stress Coat, according to their *advertisement* > > has Aloe Vera and something to increase slime coat (probably just > > salt, which will cause a fish to put out more slime coat and also > > provides chloride which makes increases gill function... this would be > > akin to someone sucking on some extra bottled O2 which is not needed > > for most folks) > > > > Here's the MSDS on API Stress Coat - > > > http://www.aquariumpharm.com/cms/Files/MSDS/Stress_Coat_NG_030907.pdf > <http://www.aquariumpharm.com/cms/Files/MSDS/Stress_Coat_NG_030907.pdf> > > > <http://www.aquariumpharm.com/cms/Files/MSDS/Stress_Coat_NG_030907.pdf > <http://www.aquariumpharm.com/cms/Files/MSDS/Stress_Coat_NG_030907.pdf> > > > > > (PDF > > document) > > > > The MSDS starts off stating in bold red lettering that it's a > > hazardous substance and goes through explaining why. In the > > composition/ingredients section 3, it says the three ingredients are > > "Aloes, extract" between 1-10%; non-hazardous proprietary ingredents, > > between 1-10%; and water >80% (more than). "proprietary" means they > > are the companies secret ingredients still covered by one or more > > patents so they do not have to disclose them but you can be pretty > > sure they are salt based as salt is a nice cheap chemical that > > provides all of the things that the advertisement claims.... slime > > coat and easier breathing to reduce stress. > > > > BUT... a pinch of salt per 10G is all that is needed to raise the > > chloride level in a tank to where it will provide increased gill > > function (and also protect from nitrite poisoning in tanks with > > nitrite issues from nitrogen cycle issues). > > > > If you really want to continue using Stress Coat, go to > > http://www.aquariumpharm.com/surveys/Survey.aspx?SurveyID=2 > <http://www.aquariumpharm.com/surveys/Survey.aspx?SurveyID=2> > > <http://www.aquariumpharm.com/surveys/Survey.aspx?SurveyID=2 > <http://www.aquariumpharm.com/surveys/Survey.aspx?SurveyID=2>> and take > > the quick survey and they'll send you a rebate coupon for your next > > purchase. I happened to see this while on the API website. > > > > The sand from Ft. Lauderdale could be silica based sand BUT it could > > also be coral based sand OR a combination of both since there are > > plenty of coral reefs all around southern Florida coastlines, most > > notably in the Florida Keys where I spent many vacations diving the > > many reefs, ship wrecks and attractions down there. You will have to > > contact the sand sellers or look at the bag to see which one you have > > BUT obviously, you have something in your tank that is raising your pH > > to 8.0.... if your 48 hour tap water baseline testing shows only a 7.1 > > pH. > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>> > (Links to any articles referenced in > > above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels > > and also under Archives by Year, Month) > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On Behalf Of Jade > > Sent: Sunday, November 15, 2009 5:57 AM > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Aquarium heater sedimentation? > > > > Steve - a 'mere' $42,000 eh? Now where can I get YOUR job? :) Though > > yeah it is out of focus I will work on trying to get a clearer shot... > > the cameras don't tend to like the lighting. > > > > Lenny - I already have a piece of driftwood in the tank, and take > > roughly 2 gallons off 3 times a week, as opposed to a 25% weekly > > change regimen which was insufficient. I am referring to the tannish > > stuff below the clip. The sand is sold out of Ft. Lauderdale, Fl. and > > is all natural, however specifics beyond this I am at a loss for. > > Though my Ph did drop a bit when I put it in after taking out my > > gravel, so I do not think the sand is the cause. I have no ornaments > > in my tank, I simply have my plants, and my driftwood. > > > > As to the stress coat, I use that to remove the very large amounts of > > chlorine we have in our tap water, and it also helps repair damaged > > fins more quickly (in my experience.), some of my guppies get a bit > > nippy towards each other at times. I do agree that the chemicals can > > cause pollution in the ecosystem, however and this again is in my > > experience, the very few I do use are very beneficial and my fish do > > better with it than they ever had done without it, and as this is > > experience based, I am simply stating my view :) I do use the flourish > > every so often, but not very often. My plants have been thriving for > > which I am thankful, as a planted tank makes for a safe haven for fry. > > I will try soon to get you a better photo of the heater when possible. > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>, "Steve Szabo" <steve@...> wrote: > > > > > > I noticed the out of focus shot also. I think the problem may be > > > with the auto focus focusing on the glass rather than on the heater. > > > It would depend on the actual camera how to fix it. If manual focus > > > mode is available, then manually focus the camera. If it is not, > > > perhaps the f/ stop can be played with, in which case you could set > > > it higher than called for, which will decrease the shutter speed, so > > > it would be best to use a tripod to hold the camera, or place it on > > > a steady surface. If neither of those options are available, Then > > > you might > > want to > > look around for another camera. > > > > > > If I may be so bold, I can make a suggestion that you look at this > one: > > > http://www.hasselbladusa.com/media/2081132/uk_h4d_datasheet_v3.pdf > <http://www.hasselbladusa.com/media/2081132/uk_h4d_datasheet_v3.pdf> > > <http://www.hasselbladusa.com/media/2081132/uk_h4d_datasheet_v3.pdf > <http://www.hasselbladusa.com/media/2081132/uk_h4d_datasheet_v3.pdf>> > > > > > > http://tinyurl.com/ycujcoz <http://tinyurl.com/ycujcoz> > <http://tinyurl.com/ycujcoz <http://tinyurl.com/ycujcoz>> > > > > > > This one should meet most of your needs, and it has a 60 megapixel > > > CCD. You can have it for just under a mere $42,000. > > > > > > \\Steve// > > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] > > > On Behalf Of Lenny V. aka GoldLenny > > > Sent: Friday, November 13, 2009 11:19 AM > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: Aquarium heater sedimentation? > > > > > > Hmmmm.... then I'm not sure what that could be. I'm looking at the > > > picture again right now and just to be sure we're seeing the same > > > things, what I'm seeing in the picture is an upright glass tube > > > section of the heater held in place by one suction cup clamp and to > > > me, the tannish colored *stuff* starts growing around where the > > > clamp starts and looks kind of thick downward from there but to me, > > > it looks like it's only growing on the front half of the glass heater > tube. > > > Let me know if this is what you were trying to take a picture of or > > if it > > was the darker rust colored streaking above the clamp? > > > If it's the rust colored stuff, I would guess at diatoms but the > > > tannish colored stuff is unknown to me and would appear to be some > > > kind of fungi/mold. Can you try to get some better pictures. The one > > > you posted is kind of blurry. You might have to back your camera up > > > a little. Many cameras, unless they have a macro mode, cannot take > > > really close up pictures and probably have to be at least a foot > > > away from something or it will come out blurry. Some cameras might > > > have to be 2'-3' away. If you have a local university, you could > > > always call their biology department and ask if you could bring a > > > sample to them for physical and/or microscopic identification, in > > > case it's a fungus or mold, most of which are not harmful and this > > > could explain why you are getting this and not your parents. It > > > could have come in on one of > > your plants. > > > > > > As far as you pH. If your tap water 48 hour baseline is only 7.1, > > > then there is something in the tank that is raising the pH. Silica > > > based sands should be inert but some other types of sand can cause > > > the pH to rise, such as coral and aragonite sands, which are going > > > to have a high calcium carbonate level. Where did you get your sand? > > > Here's a simple article about the various sands that are commonly > > > used in > > aquariums. > > > http://www.cichlid-forum.com/articles/sand.php > <http://www.cichlid-forum.com/articles/sand.php> > > <http://www.cichlid-forum.com/articles/sand.php > <http://www.cichlid-forum.com/articles/sand.php>> Unless you have a > > > decoration or other item that could be leaching hardness into your > > > tank, I would strongly suspect the sand but then you mentioned that > > > you had this issue before with your gravel. If it is the sand, now > > > you have the questions on whether to keep it or not. Since removing > > > sand is a LOT more work than removing gravel and since your tank is > > > planted, you might just want to go with doing more frequent PWC's > > > (partial water changes) and maybe adding a piece of driftwood to the > > > tank. The good news is that a slowly rising pH is not really harmful > > > to fish as much as a dropping pH, although drastic changes in either > > > direction (not caused by CO2 levels during photosynthesis) can be > > harmful. > > > > > > In the future, you can save some money by NOT buying the Stress-this > > > or Slime-that type products. They simply are NOT needed and provide > > > little or no benefit to our tanks... other than adding another > > > chemical pollutant to the closed ecosystem. If your plants need it, > > > the Seachem Flourish is fine to use but is not always necessary > > > either. All I add to my tanks is a pro-rata dose of dechlor during > > > each PWC. I use API's Tap Water Conditioner since it's more > > > concentrated than other brands for a lower cost.. 1ml treats 10G > > > where most other dechlors need 5ml or even 10ml for 10G. I do have a > > > portion of cuttlebone in each of my filters for slow dosing of > > > calcium > > carbonates to the tanks but that's it for me as far as additives. No > salt. > > > No stress-this or slime-that stuff. No pH up, down or around junk. > > > Just weekly 25% PWC's, gravel vacuuming and filter cleaning. > > > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>> > (Links to any articles > > > referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, > > > alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] > > > On Behalf Of Jade > > > Sent: Thursday, November 12, 2009 4:51 PM > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Aquarium heater sedimentation? > > > > > > Lenny: IT's actually growing completely around the heater. > > > The Ph of my tap is 7.1, after letting it sit. A friend of mine had > > > recommended that to me awhile back. No I'm not adding any water > > > hardeners and in fact I removed the gravel of my tank(replaced with > > > natural sand) which was increasing the Ph, and added in driftwood. > > > 8.0 is the lowest it seems to go. > > > I do not have GH or KH tests... and unfortunately at present cannot > > > afford to buy them. > > > > > > Steve: My parents had an aquarium for the longest, they never had > > > this problem... though in spite of the meticulous care of my tank... > > > it's always there. The only things I add to my tank are Stress Coat > > > +, Stress Zyme (Once a week), and Flourish, though this was > > > happening long before I had live plants. It happened in my past > tanks as > well... > > > maybe the heater brand could be the problem? I had the same brand > > > every time this happened, though I doubt the brand would be > > > problematic it's a thought. I've scoured the internet for weeks and > > > came up empty-handed. Obviously whatever this crap is, it isn't good > > > for the heater I wouldn't think. When I can manage to have the funds > > > to be able to get a new heater just in case this one cracks I will > > try to > > scrape off the...whatever it is. > > > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>, "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" > > > <GoldLenny@> > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > OK. From looking at the picture, it looks like this stuff is > > > > growing just on the front side of the heater facing the light of > > > > the > > tank... > > > > right? If I am seeing it correctly, then this is probably some > > > > kind of algae since it's only growing on the lighted side of the > heater. > > > > I've never seen one that prefers only the HOT temperatures of a > > > > heater > > > though. > > > > > > > > As far as your pH goes, is this pH of 8.0 in your tank or right > > > > out your tap? I have an article on my blog called "Find Your Tap > > > > Water Baseline" and it's a good idea for everyone to do this and > > > > know what happens to their tap water. Testing it right out the tap > > > > will not give accurate numbers most of the time. The 48 hour > > > > baseline is a more accurate number but folks also need to know > > > > their right out the tap numbers as they might have to do smaller % > > > > PWC's if their right-out-the-tap numbers are a LOT different than > > > > their 48 hour baseline and/or actual tank numbers. I'm guessing > > > > you're not adding > > > anything like crushed coral, other water hardener substances, etc... > > > > or do you possibly have a substrate that might have something in > > > > it that is leaching hardness into your water in the tank? The 48 > > > > hour baseline numbers will tell us more. > > > > > > > > Do you have GH and KH tests? That will also give us more info. API > > > > makes a combo kit for GH and KH that matches with the Master Test > > > > Kit and/or other individual kits. If you do, let us know the 48 > > > > hour tap water baseline numbers and your tank numbers. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] > > > > On Behalf Of Jade > > > > Sent: Wednesday, November 11, 2009 8:59 PM > > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Aquarium heater sedimentation? > > > > > > > > > > > > Lenny: > > > > (answers in parenthesis) > > > > > > > > How long have you had your tank set up? (About two years now) > > > > > > > > Do you have this "brown substance) on the gravel, other > > > > decorations, glass, etc? (No I do not) > > > > > > > > Give us more details about your tank. Size, stocking, fish > > > > species, etc.(Size - 20 gal long, stocking 9 adult guppies and 2 > > > > adolescents.) > > > > > > > > Give us a little info on your fish keeping skills also. (I've been > > > > raising live-bearers for the better part of 12 years now... > > > > clarify > > > > skills?) > > > > > > > > What is your pH level and why do you think it is high? Contrary to > > > > some of the bottles of crap that some stores sell, you do NOT need > > > > a pH of 7.0 in order to keep fish and in fact, a higher or lower > > > > pH is often better for many species of fish. > > > > (My PH is 8.0, according to the water tester from API (Not the > > sticks!!! > > > > Vials with the drops... noted far more accurate) I am well aware > > > > you don't need a flat ph of 7.0 and in fact some species of > > > > freshwater fish prefer high-end PH. Guppies themselves prefer > > > > about 7.5)) > > > > > > > > How did you crack your heater by cleaning it? Did you drop it or > > > something? > > > > I can't imagine scrubbing it with a brush would break it unless it > > > > already had a fracture or stress crack. (Negative, I didn't drop > > > > it, I was using a semi-dull knife to try to get the brown stuff > > > > off - the same that is on this heater, and it simply just > > > > cracked.) > > > > ------------ > > > > > > > > Steve: > > > > Thanks for the tip, I'll try to give it a go when I can get the > > razor. > > > > Right now I can't afford that much less a new heater. So I think > > > > I'll hold off just a bit until I can afford BOTH, just in case, > hehe. > > > > > > > > ------------- > > > > Donna: > > > > These unfortunately don't just brush away. Sometimes small, solid > > > > chunks will fall off, but it's rare. > > > > > > > > --------- > > > > To All : Took a to give you guys some reference as to what it > > > > looks > > like. > > > > The brown thing on the top left is a lily pad, just so you know. > > > > See photo link below. > > > > > > > > http://i352.photobucket.com/albums/r329/Tehzedaj/Picture60.jpg > <http://i352.photobucket.com/albums/r329/Tehzedaj/Picture60.jpg> > > <http://i352.photobucket.com/albums/r329/Tehzedaj/Picture60.jpg > <http://i352.photobucket.com/albums/r329/Tehzedaj/Picture60.jpg>> > > > > > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>, "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" > > > > <GoldLenny@> > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > How long have you had your tank set up? Do you have this "brown > > > > > substance) on the gravel, other decorations, glass, etc? > > > > > > > > > > Give us more details about your tank. Size, stocking, fish > > > > > species, > > > etc. > > > > > Give us a little info on your fish keeping skills also. > > > > > > > > > > What is your pH level and why do you think it is high? Contrary > > > > > to some of the bottles of crap that some stores sell, you do NOT > > > > > need a pH of 7.0 in order to keep fish and in fact, a higher or > > > > > lower pH is often better for many species of fish. > > > > > > > > > > How did you crack your heater by cleaning it? Did you drop it or > > > > something? > > > > > I can't imagine scrubbing it with a brush would break it unless > > > > > it already had a fracture or stress crack. > > > > > > > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > > > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>> > (Links to any articles > > > > > referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, > > > > > alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, > > > > > Month) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] > > > > > On Behalf Of Jade > > > > > Sent: Sunday, November 08, 2009 9:29 PM > > > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > Subject: [AquaticLife] Aquarium heater sedimentation? > > > > > > > > > > I have a hard light brown (tanish) substance covering the tube > > > > > of my aquarium heater... is this sediment? I was wondering if > > > > > that's what's causing my high Ph (there's absolutely nothing > > > > > else in there that could do it...). How do I clean it off? I've > > > > > had the problem > > > before... > > > > > and in attempts to clean it the heater actually cracked > > > > > (thankfully it wasn't in the tank at the time.) > > > > > > > > > > Any ideas/suggestions/help would be appreciated :) > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 44559	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 11/15/2009
Subject: Re: Your overgrown with algae tanks useful.

Yeah... I don't figure Detroit would be very happy with a Toyota so-called *green" car coming to town. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Menagerie_Manager Sent: Sunday, November 15, 2009 11:06 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Your overgrown with algae tanks useful. It figures we wouldn't hear about this in Detroit and it's supposed to be here today. DebR and the Three Goldfish (CB, Lucille, and Raven) ----- Original Message ----- From: "Steve Szabo" <steve@...> To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Sunday, November 15, 2009 2:24 AM Subject: [AquaticLife] Your overgrown with algae tanks useful. No more need to worry about algae growing in your tanks. Use it to fuel your car! The Algaeus algae-fueled Prius hits the road. http://www.smartplanet.com/technology/blog/thinking-tech/the-algaeus-algae-f ueled-prius-hits-the-road/1415/ http://tinyurl.com/ob5jcg \\Steve// ------------------------------------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the home page. Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com to receive the digest, which includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com for the No E-Mail option where you will still be able to read messages on the group and post replies. Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com to receive individual e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links ------------------------------------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the home page. Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com to receive the digest, which includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com for the No E-Mail option where you will still be able to read messages on the group and post replies. Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com to receive individual e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 44560	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 11/15/2009
Subject: Re: Aquarium heater sedimentation?

Well, a 16 oz. bottle should weigh less than 2 pounds but are you serious.... even with 75% off, it would still cost you $15.00? That would mean $20.00 for the bottle. It seems like you could bundle an order at DFS and even with having to pay their regular shipping prices, it would be cheaper, on a pro-rated price dividing the shipping cost among several items. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Amber Berglund Sent: Sunday, November 15, 2009 12:28 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: Aquarium heater sedimentation? I get 75% off of my fed ex charges, so if the box was only a couple pounds it'd be about 15 or less to send it to me. Amber Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > > I'd offer but none of my local stores sell the API T.W.C. for a low > price like I can get it online or they don't even sell the 16 oz. > bottle and the 4 oz. bottle is just as much at the stores. I'll try to > think of you next time I'm ordering from DFS (where it's only around > $5.00 for a 16 oz. > bottle, which would last you a year or two even with your MTS) but > then, how much would FEDEX charge you to receive it? > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> (Links to any articles referenced in > above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels > and also under Archives by Year, Month) > > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On Behalf Of Amber Berglund > Sent: Sunday, November 15, 2009 11:56 AM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: Aquarium heater sedimentation? > > I have to point out that I use stress coat by API, not on purpose, but > because my only LFS ONLY buys stress coat, I've asked repeatedly if > they would get another type (specifically just the normal API that > removes heavy > metals) but the owner refuses to get anything different, he "swears by > stress coat" *sigh* The reason I have not looked at ordering it online > is because I'm a bit on the poorer side this year (trying to refinance > my condo, etc), so I'm scraping by (barely). I know that API is cheap > online, but it's not cheap to get it here, so unless I can find > someone down south that wants to go to their LFS and buy a box full of > the stuff THEN send it to me on my fed ex account I'm kinda S.O.L. I > can't find an online store that will ship on my fed ex account (even > though i could easily tell them how or email them a label to slap on > the box, but oh NOOO, they'd lose money, LOL). > Anyways, my point was this; Perhaps I'm not the only one with limited > access on their tap water conditioners? > Walmart sells one here but it's a tiny little bottle and does NOT > remove heavy metals (so useless IMO). Besides, even if it did take > care of heavy metals, that tiny little bottle wouldn't last long in my > 125 gallon tank on a PWC day ;) LOL. > > Amber > > Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > > > > While API is generally a good company and I especially like their > > API Tap Water Conditioner for dechlor and heavy metal treatment of > > tap water, some of their products are in answer to competition's > > products, including Stress Coat. Stress Coat, according to their > > *advertisement* has Aloe Vera and something to increase slime coat > > (probably just salt, which will cause a fish to put out more slime > > coat and also provides chloride which makes increases gill > > function... this would be akin to someone sucking on some extra > > bottled O2 which is not needed for most folks) > > > > Here's the MSDS on API Stress Coat - > > > http://www.aquariumpharm.com/cms/Files/MSDS/Stress_Coat_NG_030907.pdf > <http://www.aquariumpharm.com/cms/Files/MSDS/Stress_Coat_NG_030907.pdf > > > > > <http://www.aquariumpharm.com/cms/Files/MSDS/Stress_Coat_NG_030907.pdf > <http://www.aquariumpharm.com/cms/Files/MSDS/Stress_Coat_NG_030907.pdf > > > > > > > (PDF > > document) > > > > The MSDS starts off stating in bold red lettering that it's a > > hazardous substance and goes through explaining why. In the > > composition/ingredients section 3, it says the three ingredients are > > "Aloes, extract" between 1-10%; non-hazardous proprietary > > ingredents, between 1-10%; and water >80% (more than). "proprietary" > > means they are the companies secret ingredients still covered by one > > or more patents so they do not have to disclose them but you can be > > pretty sure they are salt based as salt is a nice cheap chemical > > that provides all of the things that the advertisement claims.... > > slime coat and easier breathing to reduce stress. > > > > BUT... a pinch of salt per 10G is all that is needed to raise the > > chloride level in a tank to where it will provide increased gill > > function (and also protect from nitrite poisoning in tanks with > > nitrite issues from nitrogen cycle issues). > > > > If you really want to continue using Stress Coat, go to > > http://www.aquariumpharm.com/surveys/Survey.aspx?SurveyID=2 > <http://www.aquariumpharm.com/surveys/Survey.aspx?SurveyID=2> > > <http://www.aquariumpharm.com/surveys/Survey.aspx?SurveyID=2 > <http://www.aquariumpharm.com/surveys/Survey.aspx?SurveyID=2>> and > take > > the quick survey and they'll send you a rebate coupon for your next > > purchase. I happened to see this while on the API website. > > > > The sand from Ft. Lauderdale could be silica based sand BUT it could > > also be coral based sand OR a combination of both since there are > > plenty of coral reefs all around southern Florida coastlines, most > > notably in the Florida Keys where I spent many vacations diving the > > many reefs, ship wrecks and attractions down there. You will have to > > contact the sand sellers or look at the bag to see which one you > > have BUT obviously, you have something in your tank that is raising > > your pH to 8.0.... if your 48 hour tap water baseline testing shows > > only a 7.1 pH. > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>> > (Links to any articles referenced in > > above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under > > Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month)

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 44561	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 11/15/2009
Subject: Re: Aquarium heater sedimentation?

I don't get regular shipping with DFS, they charge me 2nd day fed ex, and I don't get my discount, LOL. So... yeah not worth it. Amber Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > > Well, a 16 oz. bottle should weigh less than 2 pounds but are you > serious.... even with 75% off, it would still cost you $15.00? That would > mean $20.00 for the bottle. It seems like you could bundle an order at DFS > and even with having to pay their regular shipping prices, it would be > cheaper, on a pro-rated price dividing the shipping cost among several > items. > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right > side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) > > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On > Behalf Of Amber Berglund > Sent: Sunday, November 15, 2009 12:28 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: Aquarium heater sedimentation? > > I get 75% off of my fed ex charges, so if the box was only a couple pounds > it'd be about 15 or less to send it to me. > > Amber > > Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > > > > I'd offer but none of my local stores sell the API T.W.C. for a low > > price like I can get it online or they don't even sell the 16 oz. > > bottle and the 4 oz. bottle is just as much at the stores. I'll try to > > think of you next time I'm ordering from DFS (where it's only around > > $5.00 for a 16 oz. > > bottle, which would last you a year or two even with your MTS) but > > then, how much would FEDEX charge you to receive it? > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>> > (Links to any articles referenced in > > above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels > > and also under Archives by Year, Month) > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On Behalf Of Amber Berglund > > Sent: Sunday, November 15, 2009 11:56 AM > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: Aquarium heater sedimentation? > > > > I have to point out that I use stress coat by API, not on purpose, but > > because my only LFS ONLY buys stress coat, I've asked repeatedly if > > they would get another type (specifically just the normal API that > > removes heavy > > metals) but the owner refuses to get anything different, he "swears by > > stress coat" *sigh* The reason I have not looked at ordering it online > > is because I'm a bit on the poorer side this year (trying to refinance > > my condo, etc), so I'm scraping by (barely). I know that API is cheap > > online, but it's not cheap to get it here, so unless I can find > > someone down south that wants to go to their LFS and buy a box full of > > the stuff THEN send it to me on my fed ex account I'm kinda S.O.L. I > > can't find an online store that will ship on my fed ex account (even > > though i could easily tell them how or email them a label to slap on > > the box, but oh NOOO, they'd lose money, LOL). > > Anyways, my point was this; Perhaps I'm not the only one with limited > > access on their tap water conditioners? > > Walmart sells one here but it's a tiny little bottle and does NOT > > remove heavy metals (so useless IMO). Besides, even if it did take > > care of heavy metals, that tiny little bottle wouldn't last long in my > > 125 gallon tank on a PWC day ;) LOL. > > > > Amber > > > > Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > > > > > > While API is generally a good company and I especially like their > > > API Tap Water Conditioner for dechlor and heavy metal treatment of > > > tap water, some of their products are in answer to competition's > > > products, including Stress Coat. Stress Coat, according to their > > > *advertisement* has Aloe Vera and something to increase slime coat > > > (probably just salt, which will cause a fish to put out more slime > > > coat and also provides chloride which makes increases gill > > > function... this would be akin to someone sucking on some extra > > > bottled O2 which is not needed for most folks) > > > > > > Here's the MSDS on API Stress Coat - > > > > > > http://www.aquariumpharm.com/cms/Files/MSDS/Stress_Coat_NG_030907.pdf > <http://www.aquariumpharm.com/cms/Files/MSDS/Stress_Coat_NG_030907.pdf> > > > <http://www.aquariumpharm.com/cms/Files/MSDS/Stress_Coat_NG_030907.pdf > <http://www.aquariumpharm.com/cms/Files/MSDS/Stress_Coat_NG_030907.pdf> > > > > > > > > > <http://www.aquariumpharm.com/cms/Files/MSDS/Stress_Coat_NG_030907.pdf > <http://www.aquariumpharm.com/cms/Files/MSDS/Stress_Coat_NG_030907.pdf> > > > <http://www.aquariumpharm.com/cms/Files/MSDS/Stress_Coat_NG_030907.pdf > <http://www.aquariumpharm.com/cms/Files/MSDS/Stress_Coat_NG_030907.pdf> > > > > > > > > > > (PDF > > > document) > > > > > > The MSDS starts off stating in bold red lettering that it's a > > > hazardous substance and goes through explaining why. In the > > > composition/ingredients section 3, it says the three ingredients are > > > "Aloes, extract" between 1-10%; non-hazardous proprietary > > > ingredents, between 1-10%; and water >80% (more than). "proprietary" > > > means they are the companies secret ingredients still covered by one > > > or more patents so they do not have to disclose them but you can be > > > pretty sure they are salt based as salt is a nice cheap chemical > > > that provides all of the things that the advertisement claims.... > > > slime coat and easier breathing to reduce stress. > > > > > > BUT... a pinch of salt per 10G is all that is needed to raise the > > > chloride level in a tank to where it will provide increased gill > > > function (and also protect from nitrite poisoning in tanks with > > > nitrite issues from nitrogen cycle issues). > > > > > > If you really want to continue using Stress Coat, go to > > > http://www.aquariumpharm.com/surveys/Survey.aspx?SurveyID=2 > <http://www.aquariumpharm.com/surveys/Survey.aspx?SurveyID=2> > > <http://www.aquariumpharm.com/surveys/Survey.aspx?SurveyID=2 > <http://www.aquariumpharm.com/surveys/Survey.aspx?SurveyID=2>> > > > <http://www.aquariumpharm.com/surveys/Survey.aspx?SurveyID=2 > <http://www.aquariumpharm.com/surveys/Survey.aspx?SurveyID=2> > > <http://www.aquariumpharm.com/surveys/Survey.aspx?SurveyID=2 > <http://www.aquariumpharm.com/surveys/Survey.aspx?SurveyID=2>>> and > > take > > > the quick survey and they'll send you a rebate coupon for your next > > > purchase. I happened to see this while on the API website. > > > > > > The sand from Ft. Lauderdale could be silica based sand BUT it could > > > also be coral based sand OR a combination of both since there are > > > plenty of coral reefs all around southern Florida coastlines, most > > > notably in the Florida Keys where I spent many vacations diving the > > > many reefs, ship wrecks and attractions down there. You will have to > > > contact the sand sellers or look at the bag to see which one you > > > have BUT obviously, you have something in your tank that is raising > > > your pH to 8.0.... if your 48 hour tap water baseline testing shows > > > only a 7.1 pH. > > > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>> > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>>> > > (Links to any articles referenced in > > > above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under > > > Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 44562	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 11/15/2009
Subject: Re: Aquarium heater sedimentation?

Also I was only guessing Lenny, I haven't sent anything Fed ex on my account since early this summer, and all of that was overnight shipping, so if I sent something 2nd day it'd obviously be cheaper, I think I was quoting an overnight price just off the top of my head (without thinking and no coffee, ugh, LOL). For a 2nd day box it'd be closer to 10 dollars or less depending on the weight. Amber Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > > Well, a 16 oz. bottle should weigh less than 2 pounds but are you > serious.... even with 75% off, it would still cost you $15.00? That would > mean $20.00 for the bottle. It seems like you could bundle an order at DFS > and even with having to pay their regular shipping prices, it would be > cheaper, on a pro-rated price dividing the shipping cost among several > items. > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right > side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) > > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On > Behalf Of Amber Berglund > Sent: Sunday, November 15, 2009 12:28 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: Aquarium heater sedimentation? > > I get 75% off of my fed ex charges, so if the box was only a couple pounds > it'd be about 15 or less to send it to me. > > Amber > > Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > > > > I'd offer but none of my local stores sell the API T.W.C. for a low > > price like I can get it online or they don't even sell the 16 oz. > > bottle and the 4 oz. bottle is just as much at the stores. I'll try to > > think of you next time I'm ordering from DFS (where it's only around > > $5.00 for a 16 oz. > > bottle, which would last you a year or two even with your MTS) but > > then, how much would FEDEX charge you to receive it? > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>> > (Links to any articles referenced in > > above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels > > and also under Archives by Year, Month) > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On Behalf Of Amber Berglund > > Sent: Sunday, November 15, 2009 11:56 AM > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: Aquarium heater sedimentation? > > > > I have to point out that I use stress coat by API, not on purpose, but > > because my only LFS ONLY buys stress coat, I've asked repeatedly if > > they would get another type (specifically just the normal API that > > removes heavy > > metals) but the owner refuses to get anything different, he "swears by > > stress coat" *sigh* The reason I have not looked at ordering it online > > is because I'm a bit on the poorer side this year (trying to refinance > > my condo, etc), so I'm scraping by (barely). I know that API is cheap > > online, but it's not cheap to get it here, so unless I can find > > someone down south that wants to go to their LFS and buy a box full of > > the stuff THEN send it to me on my fed ex account I'm kinda S.O.L. I > > can't find an online store that will ship on my fed ex account (even > > though i could easily tell them how or email them a label to slap on > > the box, but oh NOOO, they'd lose money, LOL). > > Anyways, my point was this; Perhaps I'm not the only one with limited > > access on their tap water conditioners? > > Walmart sells one here but it's a tiny little bottle and does NOT > > remove heavy metals (so useless IMO). Besides, even if it did take > > care of heavy metals, that tiny little bottle wouldn't last long in my > > 125 gallon tank on a PWC day ;) LOL. > > > > Amber > > > > Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > > > > > > While API is generally a good company and I especially like their > > > API Tap Water Conditioner for dechlor and heavy metal treatment of > > > tap water, some of their products are in answer to competition's > > > products, including Stress Coat. Stress Coat, according to their > > > *advertisement* has Aloe Vera and something to increase slime coat > > > (probably just salt, which will cause a fish to put out more slime > > > coat and also provides chloride which makes increases gill > > > function... this would be akin to someone sucking on some extra > > > bottled O2 which is not needed for most folks) > > > > > > Here's the MSDS on API Stress Coat - > > > > > > http://www.aquariumpharm.com/cms/Files/MSDS/Stress_Coat_NG_030907.pdf > <http://www.aquariumpharm.com/cms/Files/MSDS/Stress_Coat_NG_030907.pdf> > > > <http://www.aquariumpharm.com/cms/Files/MSDS/Stress_Coat_NG_030907.pdf > <http://www.aquariumpharm.com/cms/Files/MSDS/Stress_Coat_NG_030907.pdf> > > > > > > > > > <http://www.aquariumpharm.com/cms/Files/MSDS/Stress_Coat_NG_030907.pdf > <http://www.aquariumpharm.com/cms/Files/MSDS/Stress_Coat_NG_030907.pdf> > > > <http://www.aquariumpharm.com/cms/Files/MSDS/Stress_Coat_NG_030907.pdf > <http://www.aquariumpharm.com/cms/Files/MSDS/Stress_Coat_NG_030907.pdf> > > > > > > > > > > (PDF > > > document) > > > > > > The MSDS starts off stating in bold red lettering that it's a > > > hazardous substance and goes through explaining why. In the > > > composition/ingredients section 3, it says the three ingredients are > > > "Aloes, extract" between 1-10%; non-hazardous proprietary > > > ingredents, between 1-10%; and water >80% (more than). "proprietary" > > > means they are the companies secret ingredients still covered by one > > > or more patents so they do not have to disclose them but you can be > > > pretty sure they are salt based as salt is a nice cheap chemical > > > that provides all of the things that the advertisement claims.... > > > slime coat and easier breathing to reduce stress. > > > > > > BUT... a pinch of salt per 10G is all that is needed to raise the > > > chloride level in a tank to where it will provide increased gill > > > function (and also protect from nitrite poisoning in tanks with > > > nitrite issues from nitrogen cycle issues). > > > > > > If you really want to continue using Stress Coat, go to > > > http://www.aquariumpharm.com/surveys/Survey.aspx?SurveyID=2 > <http://www.aquariumpharm.com/surveys/Survey.aspx?SurveyID=2> > > <http://www.aquariumpharm.com/surveys/Survey.aspx?SurveyID=2 > <http://www.aquariumpharm.com/surveys/Survey.aspx?SurveyID=2>> > > > <http://www.aquariumpharm.com/surveys/Survey.aspx?SurveyID=2 > <http://www.aquariumpharm.com/surveys/Survey.aspx?SurveyID=2> > > <http://www.aquariumpharm.com/surveys/Survey.aspx?SurveyID=2 > <http://www.aquariumpharm.com/surveys/Survey.aspx?SurveyID=2>>> and > > take > > > the quick survey and they'll send you a rebate coupon for your next > > > purchase. I happened to see this while on the API website. > > > > > > The sand from Ft. Lauderdale could be silica based sand BUT it could > > > also be coral based sand OR a combination of both since there are > > > plenty of coral reefs all around southern Florida coastlines, most > > > notably in the Florida Keys where I spent many vacations diving the > > > many reefs, ship wrecks and attractions down there. You will have to > > > contact the sand sellers or look at the bag to see which one you > > > have BUT obviously, you have something in your tank that is raising > > > your pH to 8.0.... if your 48 hour tap water baseline testing shows > > > only a 7.1 pH. > > > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>> > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>>> > > (Links to any articles referenced in > > > above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under > > > Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 44563	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 11/15/2009
Subject: Re: Aquarium heater sedimentation?

I thought I had heard you can order online at Wal-Mart, and pickup the product at the local store. Is that true or not? That would save amber a lot of problems, so long as Wal-Mart lists the product. \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Lenny V. aka GoldLenny Sent: Sunday, November 15, 2009 1:36 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: Aquarium heater sedimentation? Well, a 16 oz. bottle should weigh less than 2 pounds but are you serious.... even with 75% off, it would still cost you $15.00? That would mean $20.00 for the bottle. It seems like you could bundle an order at DFS and even with having to pay their regular shipping prices, it would be cheaper, on a pro-rated price dividing the shipping cost among several items. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Amber Berglund Sent: Sunday, November 15, 2009 12:28 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: Aquarium heater sedimentation? I get 75% off of my fed ex charges, so if the box was only a couple pounds it'd be about 15 or less to send it to me. Amber Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > > I'd offer but none of my local stores sell the API T.W.C. for a low > price like I can get it online or they don't even sell the 16 oz. > bottle and the 4 oz. bottle is just as much at the stores. I'll try to > think of you next time I'm ordering from DFS (where it's only around > $5.00 for a 16 oz. > bottle, which would last you a year or two even with your MTS) but > then, how much would FEDEX charge you to receive it? > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> (Links to any articles referenced in > above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels > and also under Archives by Year, Month) > > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On Behalf Of Amber Berglund > Sent: Sunday, November 15, 2009 11:56 AM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: Aquarium heater sedimentation? > > I have to point out that I use stress coat by API, not on purpose, but > because my only LFS ONLY buys stress coat, I've asked repeatedly if > they would get another type (specifically just the normal API that > removes heavy > metals) but the owner refuses to get anything different, he "swears by > stress coat" *sigh* The reason I have not looked at ordering it online > is because I'm a bit on the poorer side this year (trying to refinance > my condo, etc), so I'm scraping by (barely). I know that API is cheap > online, but it's not cheap to get it here, so unless I can find > someone down south that wants to go to their LFS and buy a box full of > the stuff THEN send it to me on my fed ex account I'm kinda S.O.L. I > can't find an online store that will ship on my fed ex account (even > though i could easily tell them how or email them a label to slap on > the box, but oh NOOO, they'd lose money, LOL). > Anyways, my point was this; Perhaps I'm not the only one with limited > access on their tap water conditioners? > Walmart sells one here but it's a tiny little bottle and does NOT > remove heavy metals (so useless IMO). Besides, even if it did take > care of heavy metals, that tiny little bottle wouldn't last long in my > 125 gallon tank on a PWC day ;) LOL. > > Amber > > Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > > > > While API is generally a good company and I especially like their > > API Tap Water Conditioner for dechlor and heavy metal treatment of > > tap water, some of their products are in answer to competition's > > products, including Stress Coat. Stress Coat, according to their > > *advertisement* has Aloe Vera and something to increase slime coat > > (probably just salt, which will cause a fish to put out more slime > > coat and also provides chloride which makes increases gill > > function... this would be akin to someone sucking on some extra > > bottled O2 which is not needed for most folks) > > > > Here's the MSDS on API Stress Coat - > > > http://www.aquariumpharm.com/cms/Files/MSDS/Stress_Coat_NG_030907.pdf > <http://www.aquariumpharm.com/cms/Files/MSDS/Stress_Coat_NG_030907.pdf > > > > > <http://www.aquariumpharm.com/cms/Files/MSDS/Stress_Coat_NG_030907.pdf > <http://www.aquariumpharm.com/cms/Files/MSDS/Stress_Coat_NG_030907.pdf > > > > > > > (PDF > > document) > > > > The MSDS starts off stating in bold red lettering that it's a > > hazardous substance and goes through explaining why. In the > > composition/ingredients section 3, it says the three ingredients are > > "Aloes, extract" between 1-10%; non-hazardous proprietary > > ingredents, between 1-10%; and water >80% (more than). "proprietary" > > means they are the companies secret ingredients still covered by one > > or more patents so they do not have to disclose them but you can be > > pretty sure they are salt based as salt is a nice cheap chemical > > that provides all of the things that the advertisement claims.... > > slime coat and easier breathing to reduce stress. > > > > BUT... a pinch of salt per 10G is all that is needed to raise the > > chloride level in a tank to where it will provide increased gill > > function (and also protect from nitrite poisoning in tanks with > > nitrite issues from nitrogen cycle issues). > > > > If you really want to continue using Stress Coat, go to > > http://www.aquariumpharm.com/surveys/Survey.aspx?SurveyID=2 > <http://www.aquariumpharm.com/surveys/Survey.aspx?SurveyID=2> > > <http://www.aquariumpharm.com/surveys/Survey.aspx?SurveyID=2 > <http://www.aquariumpharm.com/surveys/Survey.aspx?SurveyID=2>> and > take > > the quick survey and they'll send you a rebate coupon for your next > > purchase. I happened to see this while on the API website. > > > > The sand from Ft. Lauderdale could be silica based sand BUT it could > > also be coral based sand OR a combination of both since there are > > plenty of coral reefs all around southern Florida coastlines, most > > notably in the Florida Keys where I spent many vacations diving the > > many reefs, ship wrecks and attractions down there. You will have to > > contact the sand sellers or look at the bag to see which one you > > have BUT obviously, you have something in your tank that is raising > > your pH to 8.0.... if your 48 hour tap water baseline testing shows > > only a 7.1 pH. > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>> > (Links to any articles referenced in > > above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under > > Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month)

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 44564	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 11/15/2009
Subject: Re: Aquarium heater sedimentation?

What about FEDEX Ground? I mean, I know it says "Ground" but I'm sure they still use airlines to at least get the stuff long distances... don't they? Or does "Ground" mean it goes cross-country completely by truck? I guess it could still get to you if the UPS trucks cross the Canadian border... at least until it's time to get to your island... or does it have to go by plane to get to your airport (is your airport on another island?) and then ferry across to your island? Back to watching the N'Awlins Saints kick some Rams butt today... but humming "Just sit right back and you'll hear a tale, a tale of a fateful trip, that started on this tropic isle aboard this tiny ship...." WOOOOHOOOOO... Saints just ran back the 2nd half opening kick-off!!!! Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Amber Berglund Sent: Sunday, November 15, 2009 1:20 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: Aquarium heater sedimentation? Also I was only guessing Lenny, I haven't sent anything Fed ex on my account since early this summer, and all of that was overnight shipping, so if I sent something 2nd day it'd obviously be cheaper, I think I was quoting an overnight price just off the top of my head (without thinking and no coffee, ugh, LOL). For a 2nd day box it'd be closer to 10 dollars or less depending on the weight. Amber Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > > Well, a 16 oz. bottle should weigh less than 2 pounds but are you > serious.... even with 75% off, it would still cost you $15.00? That > would mean $20.00 for the bottle. It seems like you could bundle an > order at DFS and even with having to pay their regular shipping > prices, it would be cheaper, on a pro-rated price dividing the > shipping cost among several items. > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> (Links to any articles referenced in > above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels > and also under Archives by Year, Month) > > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On Behalf Of Amber Berglund > Sent: Sunday, November 15, 2009 12:28 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: Aquarium heater sedimentation? > > I get 75% off of my fed ex charges, so if the box was only a couple > pounds it'd be about 15 or less to send it to me. > > Amber > > Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > > > > I'd offer but none of my local stores sell the API T.W.C. for a low > > price like I can get it online or they don't even sell the 16 oz. > > bottle and the 4 oz. bottle is just as much at the stores. I'll try > > to think of you next time I'm ordering from DFS (where it's only > > around $5.00 for a 16 oz. > > bottle, which would last you a year or two even with your MTS) but > > then, how much would FEDEX charge you to receive it? > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>> > (Links to any articles referenced in > > above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under > > Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On Behalf Of Amber Berglund > > Sent: Sunday, November 15, 2009 11:56 AM > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: Aquarium heater sedimentation? > > > > I have to point out that I use stress coat by API, not on purpose, > > but because my only LFS ONLY buys stress coat, I've asked repeatedly > > if they would get another type (specifically just the normal API > > that removes heavy > > metals) but the owner refuses to get anything different, he "swears > > by stress coat" *sigh* The reason I have not looked at ordering it > > online is because I'm a bit on the poorer side this year (trying to > > refinance my condo, etc), so I'm scraping by (barely). I know that > > API is cheap online, but it's not cheap to get it here, so unless I > > can find someone down south that wants to go to their LFS and buy a > > box full of the stuff THEN send it to me on my fed ex account I'm > > kinda S.O.L. I can't find an online store that will ship on my fed > > ex account (even though i could easily tell them how or email them a > > label to slap on the box, but oh NOOO, they'd lose money, LOL). > > Anyways, my point was this; Perhaps I'm not the only one with > > limited access on their tap water conditioners? > > Walmart sells one here but it's a tiny little bottle and does NOT > > remove heavy metals (so useless IMO). Besides, even if it did take > > care of heavy metals, that tiny little bottle wouldn't last long in > > my > > 125 gallon tank on a PWC day ;) LOL. > > > > Amber > > > > Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > > > > > > While API is generally a good company and I especially like their > > > API Tap Water Conditioner for dechlor and heavy metal treatment of > > > tap water, some of their products are in answer to competition's > > > products, including Stress Coat. Stress Coat, according to their > > > *advertisement* has Aloe Vera and something to increase slime coat > > > (probably just salt, which will cause a fish to put out more slime > > > coat and also provides chloride which makes increases gill > > > function... this would be akin to someone sucking on some extra > > > bottled O2 which is not needed for most folks) > > > > > > Here's the MSDS on API Stress Coat - > > > > > > http://www.aquariumpharm.com/cms/Files/MSDS/Stress_Coat_NG_030907.pdf > <http://www.aquariumpharm.com/cms/Files/MSDS/Stress_Coat_NG_030907.pdf > > > > > <http://www.aquariumpharm.com/cms/Files/MSDS/Stress_Coat_NG_030907.pdf > <http://www.aquariumpharm.com/cms/Files/MSDS/Stress_Coat_NG_030907.pdf > > > > > > > > > > > <http://www.aquariumpharm.com/cms/Files/MSDS/Stress_Coat_NG_030907.pdf > <http://www.aquariumpharm.com/cms/Files/MSDS/Stress_Coat_NG_030907.pdf > > > > > <http://www.aquariumpharm.com/cms/Files/MSDS/Stress_Coat_NG_030907.pdf > <http://www.aquariumpharm.com/cms/Files/MSDS/Stress_Coat_NG_030907.pdf > > > > > > > > > > > > (PDF > > > document) > > > > > > The MSDS starts off stating in bold red lettering that it's a > > > hazardous substance and goes through explaining why. In the > > > composition/ingredients section 3, it says the three ingredients > > > are "Aloes, extract" between 1-10%; non-hazardous proprietary > > > ingredents, between 1-10%; and water >80% (more than). "proprietary" > > > means they are the companies secret ingredients still covered by > > > one or more patents so they do not have to disclose them but you > > > can be pretty sure they are salt based as salt is a nice cheap > > > chemical that provides all of the things that the advertisement claims.... > > > slime coat and easier breathing to reduce stress. > > > > > > BUT... a pinch of salt per 10G is all that is needed to raise the > > > chloride level in a tank to where it will provide increased gill > > > function (and also protect from nitrite poisoning in tanks with > > > nitrite issues from nitrogen cycle issues). > > > > > > If you really want to continue using Stress Coat, go to > > > http://www.aquariumpharm.com/surveys/Survey.aspx?SurveyID=2 > <http://www.aquariumpharm.com/surveys/Survey.aspx?SurveyID=2> > > <http://www.aquariumpharm.com/surveys/Survey.aspx?SurveyID=2 > <http://www.aquariumpharm.com/surveys/Survey.aspx?SurveyID=2>> > > > <http://www.aquariumpharm.com/surveys/Survey.aspx?SurveyID=2 > <http://www.aquariumpharm.com/surveys/Survey.aspx?SurveyID=2> > > <http://www.aquariumpharm.com/surveys/Survey.aspx?SurveyID=2 > <http://www.aquariumpharm.com/surveys/Survey.aspx?SurveyID=2>>> and > > take > > > the quick survey and they'll send you a rebate coupon for your > > > next purchase. I happened to see this while on the API website. > > > > > > The sand from Ft. Lauderdale could be silica based sand BUT it > > > could also be coral based sand OR a combination of both since > > > there are plenty of coral reefs all around southern Florida > > > coastlines, most notably in the Florida Keys where I spent many > > > vacations diving the many reefs, ship wrecks and attractions down > > > there. You will have to contact the sand sellers or look at the > > > bag to see which one you have BUT obviously, you have something in > > > your tank that is raising your pH to 8.0.... if your 48 hour tap > > > water baseline testing shows only a 7.1 pH. > > > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>> > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>>> > > (Links to any articles referenced in > > > above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under > > > Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month)

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 44565	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 11/15/2009
Subject: Re: 1500 Gallon Outdoor Aquarium Is Not Drive Thru

If I have not gone bald by now, it is unlikely that I will go bald, so that should not be a concern. However, it does not look bad with a short top, and a long back in a pony tail or not. \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Lenny V. aka GoldLenny Sent: Sunday, November 15, 2009 1:22 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] 1500 Gallon Outdoor Aquarium Is Not Drive Thru Just watch out for them flashbacks. ;-) So.... when you go bald on top, will you still keep working the ponytail? :-P Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Steve Szabo Sent: Sunday, November 15, 2009 11:51 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] 1500 Gallon Outdoor Aquarium Is Not Drive Thru Yes, I saw her post, and it may have well been hers when I clicked on the link. The problem I have is that I keep reading mail, and click on links, and then, when I get to a link, I may have no idea where it came from. I try to get to all the tabs in the browser by the end of the week, but I have a grateful Dead concert (at Winterland, 3/18/1967, Set 1) to listen to from about two weeks ago, and a Steppenwolf show at Fillmore West from 8/28/1968. Wandering the web can be such tough work. \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Lenny V. aka GoldLenny Sent: Sunday, November 15, 2009 12:00 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] 1500 Gallon Outdoor Aquarium Is Not Drive Thru LOL. Nope, it was the 1,500G Tampa Airport aquarium and I now see that Donna Ransome came forward as the originator of the article last week or so. The magazines I sneak peeks at are not usually displayed on the grocery store check-out racks but I'm only looking at them because I'm interested in the articles! ;-) I heard that Bill O'Reilly is even written about in a recent one, but I do not recall which magazine so I guess I'll have to keep looking through all of them till I find that elusive article. ;-) Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Steve Szabo Sent: Sunday, November 15, 2009 7:47 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] 1500 Gallon Outdoor Aquarium Is Not Drive Thru Are you sure you are not thinking of the outdoor aquarium that was on Craig's List? Or were you too busy looking at all the other women's magazines on the grocery store rack to see if you could find a story to top the one I posted? \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Lenny V. aka GoldLenny Sent: Sunday, November 15, 2009 2:47 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] 1500 Gallon Outdoor Aquarium Is Not Drive Thru You did and we had a vivid, entertaining and enlightening thread about it. You must have been busy reading that Woman's Day magazine and missed it all. LOL Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Steve Szabo Sent: Sunday, November 15, 2009 12:27 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] 1500 Gallon Outdoor Aquarium Is Not Drive Thru I thought I had posted this earlier in the week, but looking over my sent items, it appears I have not. Woman with boy in lap plows truck into TIA wall, damaging an aquarium, killing fish, http://www.tampabay.com/news/publicsafety/accidents/woman-with-boy-in-lap-pl ows-truck-into-tia-wall-destroying-aquarium/1050673 http://tinyurl.com/yhuwsua TAMPA - A woman with a 6-year-old child in her lap crashed her small truck into the side of Tampa International Airport on Monday night, damaging an aquarium outside the American Airlines baggage claim. Tire marks show the 1994 red Ford Ranger's path over the curb and into the tank, barely missing a concrete pole on the left and the airport's tiled wall on the right. . . . \\Steve// ------------------------------------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. 74/`7.88.><((((:>.74/`7.88.74/`7.8><((((:> 8.74/`7.8. , .74/`7..><((((:> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <:((((><.74/`7.88.74/`7.8<:((((><8.74/`7.8. , .74/`7..<:((((><74/`7.88. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the home page. Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com to receive the digest, which includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com for the No E-Mail option where you will still be able to read messages on the group and post replies. Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com to receive individual e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 44566	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 11/15/2009
Subject: Re: Aquarium heater sedimentation?

Not in SE Alaska (perhaps up north in the big cities, but not down here). My hubby works at walmart, trust me, I've asked why more than a few times ;) LOL Amber Steve Szabo wrote: > > I thought I had heard you can order online at Wal-Mart, and pickup the > product at the local store. Is that true or not? That would save amber > a lot > of problems, so long as Wal-Mart lists the product. > > \\Steve// > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On > Behalf Of Lenny V. aka GoldLenny > Sent: Sunday, November 15, 2009 1:36 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: Aquarium heater sedimentation? > > Well, a 16 oz. bottle should weigh less than 2 pounds but are you > serious.... even with 75% off, it would still cost you $15.00? That would > mean $20.00 for the bottle. It seems like you could bundle an order at DFS > and even with having to pay their regular shipping prices, it would be > cheaper, on a pro-rated price dividing the shipping cost among several > items. > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right > side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) > > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On > Behalf Of Amber Berglund > Sent: Sunday, November 15, 2009 12:28 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: Aquarium heater sedimentation? > > I get 75% off of my fed ex charges, so if the box was only a couple pounds > it'd be about 15 or less to send it to me. > > Amber > > Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > > > > I'd offer but none of my local stores sell the API T.W.C. for a low > > price like I can get it online or they don't even sell the 16 oz. > > bottle and the 4 oz. bottle is just as much at the stores. I'll try to > > think of you next time I'm ordering from DFS (where it's only around > > $5.00 for a 16 oz. > > bottle, which would last you a year or two even with your MTS) but > > then, how much would FEDEX charge you to receive it? > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>> > (Links to any articles referenced in > > above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels > > and also under Archives by Year, Month) > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On Behalf Of Amber Berglund > > Sent: Sunday, November 15, 2009 11:56 AM > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: Aquarium heater sedimentation? > > > > I have to point out that I use stress coat by API, not on purpose, but > > because my only LFS ONLY buys stress coat, I've asked repeatedly if > > they would get another type (specifically just the normal API that > > removes heavy > > metals) but the owner refuses to get anything different, he "swears by > > stress coat" *sigh* The reason I have not looked at ordering it online > > is because I'm a bit on the poorer side this year (trying to refinance > > my condo, etc), so I'm scraping by (barely). I know that API is cheap > > online, but it's not cheap to get it here, so unless I can find > > someone down south that wants to go to their LFS and buy a box full of > > the stuff THEN send it to me on my fed ex account I'm kinda S.O.L. I > > can't find an online store that will ship on my fed ex account (even > > though i could easily tell them how or email them a label to slap on > > the box, but oh NOOO, they'd lose money, LOL). > > Anyways, my point was this; Perhaps I'm not the only one with limited > > access on their tap water conditioners? > > Walmart sells one here but it's a tiny little bottle and does NOT > > remove heavy metals (so useless IMO). Besides, even if it did take > > care of heavy metals, that tiny little bottle wouldn't last long in my > > 125 gallon tank on a PWC day ;) LOL. > > > > Amber > > > > Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > > > > > > While API is generally a good company and I especially like their > > > API Tap Water Conditioner for dechlor and heavy metal treatment of > > > tap water, some of their products are in answer to competition's > > > products, including Stress Coat. Stress Coat, according to their > > > *advertisement* has Aloe Vera and something to increase slime coat > > > (probably just salt, which will cause a fish to put out more slime > > > coat and also provides chloride which makes increases gill > > > function... this would be akin to someone sucking on some extra > > > bottled O2 which is not needed for most folks) > > > > > > Here's the MSDS on API Stress Coat - > > > > > > http://www.aquariumpharm.com/cms/Files/MSDS/Stress_Coat_NG_030907.pdf > <http://www.aquariumpharm.com/cms/Files/MSDS/Stress_Coat_NG_030907.pdf> > > > <http://www.aquariumpharm.com/cms/Files/MSDS/Stress_Coat_NG_030907.pdf > <http://www.aquariumpharm.com/cms/Files/MSDS/Stress_Coat_NG_030907.pdf> > > > > > > > > > <http://www.aquariumpharm.com/cms/Files/MSDS/Stress_Coat_NG_030907.pdf > <http://www.aquariumpharm.com/cms/Files/MSDS/Stress_Coat_NG_030907.pdf> > > > <http://www.aquariumpharm.com/cms/Files/MSDS/Stress_Coat_NG_030907.pdf > <http://www.aquariumpharm.com/cms/Files/MSDS/Stress_Coat_NG_030907.pdf> > > > > > > > > > > (PDF > > > document) > > > > > > The MSDS starts off stating in bold red lettering that it's a > > > hazardous substance and goes through explaining why. In the > > > composition/ingredients section 3, it says the three ingredients are > > > "Aloes, extract" between 1-10%; non-hazardous proprietary > > > ingredents, between 1-10%; and water >80% (more than). "proprietary" > > > means they are the companies secret ingredients still covered by one > > > or more patents so they do not have to disclose them but you can be > > > pretty sure they are salt based as salt is a nice cheap chemical > > > that provides all of the things that the advertisement claims.... > > > slime coat and easier breathing to reduce stress. > > > > > > BUT... a pinch of salt per 10G is all that is needed to raise the > > > chloride level in a tank to where it will provide increased gill > > > function (and also protect from nitrite poisoning in tanks with > > > nitrite issues from nitrogen cycle issues). > > > > > > If you really want to continue using Stress Coat, go to > > > http://www.aquariumpharm.com/surveys/Survey.aspx?SurveyID=2 > <http://www.aquariumpharm.com/surveys/Survey.aspx?SurveyID=2> > > <http://www.aquariumpharm.com/surveys/Survey.aspx?SurveyID=2 > <http://www.aquariumpharm.com/surveys/Survey.aspx?SurveyID=2>> > > > <http://www.aquariumpharm.com/surveys/Survey.aspx?SurveyID=2 > <http://www.aquariumpharm.com/surveys/Survey.aspx?SurveyID=2> > > <http://www.aquariumpharm.com/surveys/Survey.aspx?SurveyID=2 > <http://www.aquariumpharm.com/surveys/Survey.aspx?SurveyID=2>>> and > > take > > > the quick survey and they'll send you a rebate coupon for your next > > > purchase. I happened to see this while on the API website. > > > > > > The sand from Ft. Lauderdale could be silica based sand BUT it could > > > also be coral based sand OR a combination of both since there are > > > plenty of coral reefs all around southern Florida coastlines, most > > > notably in the Florida Keys where I spent many vacations diving the > > > many reefs, ship wrecks and attractions down there. You will have to > > > contact the sand sellers or look at the bag to see which one you > > > have BUT obviously, you have something in your tank that is raising > > > your pH to 8.0.... if your 48 hour tap water baseline testing shows > > > only a 7.1 pH. > > > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>> > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>>> > > (Links to any articles referenced in > > > above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under > > > Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 44567	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 11/15/2009
Subject: Re: Aquarium heater sedimentation?

Ground would cost me more than fed ex 2nd day. I don't get as big of a discount on ground, not to mention they take forever to get here. Amber Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > > What about FEDEX Ground? I mean, I know it says "Ground" but I'm sure they > still use airlines to at least get the stuff long distances... don't they? > Or does "Ground" mean it goes cross-country completely by truck? I > guess it > could still get to you if the UPS trucks cross the Canadian border... at > least until it's time to get to your island... or does it have to go by > plane to get to your airport (is your airport on another island?) and then > ferry across to your island? > > Back to watching the N'Awlins Saints kick some Rams butt today... but > humming "Just sit right back and you'll hear a tale, a tale of a fateful > trip, that started on this tropic isle aboard this tiny ship...." > > WOOOOHOOOOO... Saints just ran back the 2nd half opening kick-off!!!! > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right > side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On > Behalf Of Amber Berglund > Sent: Sunday, November 15, 2009 1:20 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: Aquarium heater sedimentation? > > Also I was only guessing Lenny, I haven't sent anything Fed ex on my > account > since early this summer, and all of that was overnight shipping, so if I > sent something 2nd day it'd obviously be cheaper, I think I was quoting an > overnight price just off the top of my head (without thinking and no > coffee, > ugh, LOL). > For a 2nd day box it'd be closer to 10 dollars or less depending on the > weight. > > Amber > > Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > > > > Well, a 16 oz. bottle should weigh less than 2 pounds but are you > > serious.... even with 75% off, it would still cost you $15.00? That > > would mean $20.00 for the bottle. It seems like you could bundle an > > order at DFS and even with having to pay their regular shipping > > prices, it would be cheaper, on a pro-rated price dividing the > > shipping cost among several items. > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>> > (Links to any articles referenced in > > above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels > > and also under Archives by Year, Month) > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On Behalf Of Amber Berglund > > Sent: Sunday, November 15, 2009 12:28 PM > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: Aquarium heater sedimentation? > > > > I get 75% off of my fed ex charges, so if the box was only a couple > > pounds it'd be about 15 or less to send it to me. > > > > Amber > > > > Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > > > > > > I'd offer but none of my local stores sell the API T.W.C. for a low > > > price like I can get it online or they don't even sell the 16 oz. > > > bottle and the 4 oz. bottle is just as much at the stores. I'll try > > > to think of you next time I'm ordering from DFS (where it's only > > > around $5.00 for a 16 oz. > > > bottle, which would last you a year or two even with your MTS) but > > > then, how much would FEDEX charge you to receive it? > > > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>> > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>>> > > (Links to any articles referenced in > > > above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under > > > Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) > > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On Behalf Of Amber Berglund > > > Sent: Sunday, November 15, 2009 11:56 AM > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: Aquarium heater sedimentation? > > > > > > I have to point out that I use stress coat by API, not on purpose, > > > but because my only LFS ONLY buys stress coat, I've asked repeatedly > > > if they would get another type (specifically just the normal API > > > that removes heavy > > > metals) but the owner refuses to get anything different, he "swears > > > by stress coat" *sigh* The reason I have not looked at ordering it > > > online is because I'm a bit on the poorer side this year (trying to > > > refinance my condo, etc), so I'm scraping by (barely). I know that > > > API is cheap online, but it's not cheap to get it here, so unless I > > > can find someone down south that wants to go to their LFS and buy a > > > box full of the stuff THEN send it to me on my fed ex account I'm > > > kinda S.O.L. I can't find an online store that will ship on my fed > > > ex account (even though i could easily tell them how or email them a > > > label to slap on the box, but oh NOOO, they'd lose money, LOL). > > > Anyways, my point was this; Perhaps I'm not the only one with > > > limited access on their tap water conditioners? > > > Walmart sells one here but it's a tiny little bottle and does NOT > > > remove heavy metals (so useless IMO). Besides, even if it did take > > > care of heavy metals, that tiny little bottle wouldn't last long in > > > my > > > 125 gallon tank on a PWC day ;) LOL. > > > > > > Amber > > > > > > Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > > > > > > > > While API is generally a good company and I especially like their > > > > API Tap Water Conditioner for dechlor and heavy metal treatment of > > > > tap water, some of their products are in answer to competition's > > > > products, including Stress Coat. Stress Coat, according to their > > > > *advertisement* has Aloe Vera and something to increase slime coat > > > > (probably just salt, which will cause a fish to put out more slime > > > > coat and also provides chloride which makes increases gill > > > > function... this would be akin to someone sucking on some extra > > > > bottled O2 which is not needed for most folks) > > > > > > > > Here's the MSDS on API Stress Coat - > > > > > > > > > > http://www.aquariumpharm.com/cms/Files/MSDS/Stress_Coat_NG_030907.pdf > <http://www.aquariumpharm.com/cms/Files/MSDS/Stress_Coat_NG_030907.pdf> > > > <http://www.aquariumpharm.com/cms/Files/MSDS/Stress_Coat_NG_030907.pdf > <http://www.aquariumpharm.com/cms/Files/MSDS/Stress_Coat_NG_030907.pdf> > > > > > > > > > <http://www.aquariumpharm.com/cms/Files/MSDS/Stress_Coat_NG_030907.pdf > <http://www.aquariumpharm.com/cms/Files/MSDS/Stress_Coat_NG_030907.pdf> > > > <http://www.aquariumpharm.com/cms/Files/MSDS/Stress_Coat_NG_030907.pdf > <http://www.aquariumpharm.com/cms/Files/MSDS/Stress_Coat_NG_030907.pdf> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > <http://www.aquariumpharm.com/cms/Files/MSDS/Stress_Coat_NG_030907.pdf > <http://www.aquariumpharm.com/cms/Files/MSDS/Stress_Coat_NG_030907.pdf> > > > <http://www.aquariumpharm.com/cms/Files/MSDS/Stress_Coat_NG_030907.pdf > <http://www.aquariumpharm.com/cms/Files/MSDS/Stress_Coat_NG_030907.pdf> > > > > > > > > > <http://www.aquariumpharm.com/cms/Files/MSDS/Stress_Coat_NG_030907.pdf > <http://www.aquariumpharm.com/cms/Files/MSDS/Stress_Coat_NG_030907.pdf> > > > <http://www.aquariumpharm.com/cms/Files/MSDS/Stress_Coat_NG_030907.pdf > <http://www.aquariumpharm.com/cms/Files/MSDS/Stress_Coat_NG_030907.pdf> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > (PDF > > > > document) > > > > > > > > The MSDS starts off stating in bold red lettering that it's a > > > > hazardous substance and goes through explaining why. In the > > > > composition/ingredients section 3, it says the three ingredients > > > > are "Aloes, extract" between 1-10%; non-hazardous proprietary > > > > ingredents, between 1-10%; and water >80% (more than). "proprietary" > > > > means they are the companies secret ingredients still covered by > > > > one or more patents so they do not have to disclose them but you > > > > can be pretty sure they are salt based as salt is a nice cheap > > > > chemical that provides all of the things that the advertisement > claims.... > > > > slime coat and easier breathing to reduce stress. > > > > > > > > BUT... a pinch of salt per 10G is all that is needed to raise the > > > > chloride level in a tank to where it will provide increased gill > > > > function (and also protect from nitrite poisoning in tanks with > > > > nitrite issues from nitrogen cycle issues). > > > > > > > > If you really want to continue using Stress Coat, go to > > > > http://www.aquariumpharm.com/surveys/Survey.aspx?SurveyID=2 > <http://www.aquariumpharm.com/surveys/Survey.aspx?SurveyID=2> > > <http://www.aquariumpharm.com/surveys/Survey.aspx?SurveyID=2 > <http://www.aquariumpharm.com/surveys/Survey.aspx?SurveyID=2>> > > > <http://www.aquariumpharm.com/surveys/Survey.aspx?SurveyID=2 > <http://www.aquariumpharm.com/surveys/Survey.aspx?SurveyID=2> > > <http://www.aquariumpharm.com/surveys/Survey.aspx?SurveyID=2 > <http://www.aquariumpharm.com/surveys/Survey.aspx?SurveyID=2>>> > > > > <http://www.aquariumpharm.com/surveys/Survey.aspx?SurveyID=2 > <http://www.aquariumpharm.com/surveys/Survey.aspx?SurveyID=2> > > <http://www.aquariumpharm.com/surveys/Survey.aspx?SurveyID=2 > <http://www.aquariumpharm.com/surveys/Survey.aspx?SurveyID=2>> > > > <http://www.aquariumpharm.com/surveys/Survey.aspx?SurveyID=2 > <http://www.aquariumpharm.com/surveys/Survey.aspx?SurveyID=2> > > <http://www.aquariumpharm.com/surveys/Survey.aspx?SurveyID=2 > <http://www.aquariumpharm.com/surveys/Survey.aspx?SurveyID=2>>>> and > > > take > > > > the quick survey and they'll send you a rebate coupon for your > > > > next purchase. I happened to see this while on the API website. > > > > > > > > The sand from Ft. Lauderdale could be silica based sand BUT it > > > > could also be coral based sand OR a combination of both since > > > > there are plenty of coral reefs all around southern Florida > > > > coastlines, most notably in the Florida Keys where I spent many > > > > vacations diving the many reefs, ship wrecks and attractions down > > > > there. You will have to contact the sand sellers or look at the > > > > bag to see which one you have BUT obviously, you have something in > > > > your tank that is raising your pH to 8.0.... if your 48 hour tap > > > > water baseline testing shows only a 7.1 pH. > > > > > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>> > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>>> > > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>> > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>>>> > > > (Links to any articles referenced in > > > > above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under > > > > Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 44568	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 11/15/2009
Subject: Re: Aquarium heater sedimentation?

WalMart.com doesn't have much selection on dechlors and doesn't have the API one either... but they do have the API Master Test Kit and the Tetratest-Laborette Master Test Kit at very good prices. You are correct with the rest of the info about WalMart.com and free shipping to the store. I've used it several times. I keep hoping other stores will follow suit. It would drive traffic to their stores and the trucks are already going there with warehouse deliveries anyhow... usually every day with WalMarts. I usually buy something else while I'm in the store so the get some impulse sales out the deal. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Steve Szabo Sent: Sunday, November 15, 2009 1:34 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: Aquarium heater sedimentation? I thought I had heard you can order online at Wal-Mart, and pickup the product at the local store. Is that true or not? That would save amber a lot of problems, so long as Wal-Mart lists the product. \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Lenny V. aka GoldLenny Sent: Sunday, November 15, 2009 1:36 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: Aquarium heater sedimentation? Well, a 16 oz. bottle should weigh less than 2 pounds but are you serious.... even with 75% off, it would still cost you $15.00? That would mean $20.00 for the bottle. It seems like you could bundle an order at DFS and even with having to pay their regular shipping prices, it would be cheaper, on a pro-rated price dividing the shipping cost among several items. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Amber Berglund Sent: Sunday, November 15, 2009 12:28 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: Aquarium heater sedimentation? I get 75% off of my fed ex charges, so if the box was only a couple pounds it'd be about 15 or less to send it to me. Amber Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > > I'd offer but none of my local stores sell the API T.W.C. for a low > price like I can get it online or they don't even sell the 16 oz. > bottle and the 4 oz. bottle is just as much at the stores. I'll try to > think of you next time I'm ordering from DFS (where it's only around > $5.00 for a 16 oz. > bottle, which would last you a year or two even with your MTS) but > then, how much would FEDEX charge you to receive it? > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> (Links to any articles referenced in > above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels > and also under Archives by Year, Month) > > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On Behalf Of Amber Berglund > Sent: Sunday, November 15, 2009 11:56 AM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: Aquarium heater sedimentation? > > I have to point out that I use stress coat by API, not on purpose, but > because my only LFS ONLY buys stress coat, I've asked repeatedly if > they would get another type (specifically just the normal API that > removes heavy > metals) but the owner refuses to get anything different, he "swears by > stress coat" *sigh* The reason I have not looked at ordering it online > is because I'm a bit on the poorer side this year (trying to refinance > my condo, etc), so I'm scraping by (barely). I know that API is cheap > online, but it's not cheap to get it here, so unless I can find > someone down south that wants to go to their LFS and buy a box full of > the stuff THEN send it to me on my fed ex account I'm kinda S.O.L. I > can't find an online store that will ship on my fed ex account (even > though i could easily tell them how or email them a label to slap on > the box, but oh NOOO, they'd lose money, LOL). > Anyways, my point was this; Perhaps I'm not the only one with limited > access on their tap water conditioners? > Walmart sells one here but it's a tiny little bottle and does NOT > remove heavy metals (so useless IMO). Besides, even if it did take > care of heavy metals, that tiny little bottle wouldn't last long in my > 125 gallon tank on a PWC day ;) LOL. > > Amber > > Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > > > > While API is generally a good company and I especially like their > > API Tap Water Conditioner for dechlor and heavy metal treatment of > > tap water, some of their products are in answer to competition's > > products, including Stress Coat. Stress Coat, according to their > > *advertisement* has Aloe Vera and something to increase slime coat > > (probably just salt, which will cause a fish to put out more slime > > coat and also provides chloride which makes increases gill > > function... this would be akin to someone sucking on some extra > > bottled O2 which is not needed for most folks) > > > > Here's the MSDS on API Stress Coat - > > > http://www.aquariumpharm.com/cms/Files/MSDS/Stress_Coat_NG_030907.pdf > <http://www.aquariumpharm.com/cms/Files/MSDS/Stress_Coat_NG_030907.pdf > > > > > <http://www.aquariumpharm.com/cms/Files/MSDS/Stress_Coat_NG_030907.pdf > <http://www.aquariumpharm.com/cms/Files/MSDS/Stress_Coat_NG_030907.pdf > > > > > > > (PDF > > document) > > > > The MSDS starts off stating in bold red lettering that it's a > > hazardous substance and goes through explaining why. In the > > composition/ingredients section 3, it says the three ingredients are > > "Aloes, extract" between 1-10%; non-hazardous proprietary > > ingredents, between 1-10%; and water >80% (more than). "proprietary" > > means they are the companies secret ingredients still covered by one > > or more patents so they do not have to disclose them but you can be > > pretty sure they are salt based as salt is a nice cheap chemical > > that provides all of the things that the advertisement claims.... > > slime coat and easier breathing to reduce stress. > > > > BUT... a pinch of salt per 10G is all that is needed to raise the > > chloride level in a tank to where it will provide increased gill > > function (and also protect from nitrite poisoning in tanks with > > nitrite issues from nitrogen cycle issues). > > > > If you really want to continue using Stress Coat, go to > > http://www.aquariumpharm.com/surveys/Survey.aspx?SurveyID=2 > <http://www.aquariumpharm.com/surveys/Survey.aspx?SurveyID=2> > > <http://www.aquariumpharm.com/surveys/Survey.aspx?SurveyID=2 > <http://www.aquariumpharm.com/surveys/Survey.aspx?SurveyID=2>> and > take > > the quick survey and they'll send you a rebate coupon for your next > > purchase. I happened to see this while on the API website. > > > > The sand from Ft. Lauderdale could be silica based sand BUT it could > > also be coral based sand OR a combination of both since there are > > plenty of coral reefs all around southern Florida coastlines, most > > notably in the Florida Keys where I spent many vacations diving the > > many reefs, ship wrecks and attractions down there. You will have to > > contact the sand sellers or look at the bag to see which one you > > have BUT obviously, you have something in your tank that is raising > > your pH to 8.0.... if your 48 hour tap water baseline testing shows > > only a 7.1 pH. > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>> > (Links to any articles referenced in > > above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under > > Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) ------------------------------------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. 74/`7.88.><((((:>.74/`7.88.74/`7.8><((((:> 8.74/`7.8. , .74/`7..><((((:> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <:((((><.74/`7.88.74/`7.8<:((((><8.74/`7.8. , .74/`7..<:((((><74/`7.88. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the home page. Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com to receive the digest, which includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com for the No E-Mail option where you will still be able to read messages on the group and post replies. Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com to receive individual e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 44569	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 11/15/2009
Subject: Re: 1500 Gallon Outdoor Aquarium Is Not Drive Thru

I thought, without the pony tail, wouldn't that be a mullet? I'm not sure the other Dead Heads would allow you around with a mullet. ;-) Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Steve Szabo Sent: Sunday, November 15, 2009 1:39 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] 1500 Gallon Outdoor Aquarium Is Not Drive Thru If I have not gone bald by now, it is unlikely that I will go bald, so that should not be a concern. However, it does not look bad with a short top, and a long back in a pony tail or not. \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Lenny V. aka GoldLenny Sent: Sunday, November 15, 2009 1:22 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] 1500 Gallon Outdoor Aquarium Is Not Drive Thru Just watch out for them flashbacks. ;-) So.... when you go bald on top, will you still keep working the ponytail? :-P Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Steve Szabo Sent: Sunday, November 15, 2009 11:51 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] 1500 Gallon Outdoor Aquarium Is Not Drive Thru Yes, I saw her post, and it may have well been hers when I clicked on the link. The problem I have is that I keep reading mail, and click on links, and then, when I get to a link, I may have no idea where it came from. I try to get to all the tabs in the browser by the end of the week, but I have a grateful Dead concert (at Winterland, 3/18/1967, Set 1) to listen to from about two weeks ago, and a Steppenwolf show at Fillmore West from 8/28/1968. Wandering the web can be such tough work. \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Lenny V. aka GoldLenny Sent: Sunday, November 15, 2009 12:00 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] 1500 Gallon Outdoor Aquarium Is Not Drive Thru LOL. Nope, it was the 1,500G Tampa Airport aquarium and I now see that Donna Ransome came forward as the originator of the article last week or so. The magazines I sneak peeks at are not usually displayed on the grocery store check-out racks but I'm only looking at them because I'm interested in the articles! ;-) I heard that Bill O'Reilly is even written about in a recent one, but I do not recall which magazine so I guess I'll have to keep looking through all of them till I find that elusive article. ;-) Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Steve Szabo Sent: Sunday, November 15, 2009 7:47 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] 1500 Gallon Outdoor Aquarium Is Not Drive Thru Are you sure you are not thinking of the outdoor aquarium that was on Craig's List? Or were you too busy looking at all the other women's magazines on the grocery store rack to see if you could find a story to top the one I posted? \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Lenny V. aka GoldLenny Sent: Sunday, November 15, 2009 2:47 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] 1500 Gallon Outdoor Aquarium Is Not Drive Thru You did and we had a vivid, entertaining and enlightening thread about it. You must have been busy reading that Woman's Day magazine and missed it all. LOL Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Steve Szabo Sent: Sunday, November 15, 2009 12:27 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] 1500 Gallon Outdoor Aquarium Is Not Drive Thru I thought I had posted this earlier in the week, but looking over my sent items, it appears I have not. Woman with boy in lap plows truck into TIA wall, damaging an aquarium, killing fish, http://www.tampabay.com/news/publicsafety/accidents/woman-with-boy-in-lap-pl ows-truck-into-tia-wall-destroying-aquarium/1050673 http://tinyurl.com/yhuwsua TAMPA - A woman with a 6-year-old child in her lap crashed her small truck into the side of Tampa International Airport on Monday night, damaging an aquarium outside the American Airlines baggage claim. Tire marks show the 1994 red Ford Ranger's path over the curb and into the tank, barely missing a concrete pole on the left and the airport's tiled wall on the right. . . . \\Steve// ------------------------------------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. 74/`7.88.><((((:>.74/`7.88.74/`7.8><((((:> 8.74/`7.8. , .74/`7..><((((:> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <:((((><.74/`7.88.74/`7.8<:((((><8.74/`7.8. , .74/`7..<:((((><74/`7.88. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the home page. Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com to receive the digest, which includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com for the No E-Mail option where you will still be able to read messages on the group and post replies. Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com to receive individual e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links ------------------------------------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. 74/`7.88.><((((:>.74/`7.88.74/`7.8><((((:> 8.74/`7.8. , .74/`7..><((((:> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <:((((><.74/`7.88.74/`7.8<:((((><8.74/`7.8. , .74/`7..<:((((><74/`7.88. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the home page. Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com to receive the digest, which includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com for the No E-Mail option where you will still be able to read messages on the group and post replies. Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com to receive individual e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 44570	From: kuradi8	Date: 11/15/2009
Subject: Re: More on Vacuums

My 55g is in the dining room so the kitchen is much closer. I don't mind the bucket method. I use a couple of large jugs to refill. Dump one as the other fills, then swap. ~Kai > Lenny wrote: > > Yeah. I have one of those kitchen faucets also.... so I use my Python on my > bathroom sink. I also have a fancy bathroom faucet so I did have to buy a > little chrome plated adaptor from a mom & pop plumbing parts store. You can > see a picture of the adaptor here... > http://pets.webshots.com/photo/2788137470070613611nwOYIJ > > My bathrooms are closer to my tanks anyhow. > > I guess that same farmer also came up with "If it ain't broke, don't fix > it!" ;-) > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right > side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) > > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On > Behalf Of kuradi8 > Sent: Sunday, November 15, 2009 11:19 AM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: More on Vacuums > > "What the farmer don't know, the farmer don't want." > > This GC40 gravel vac is a known-good and something that I know and trust and > like. > > Besides, the Python won't fit onto my kitchen faucet. I have one of those > pull-out deals. > ~Kai > > > > > > Lenny wrote: > > > > At that price, I'd have to go with a Python (or other similar brand) > > and then you won't need the buckets either. A Python (or imitation > > Python) can be purchased for around $25.00, the last time I checked. > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles > > referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically > > under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > Kai wrote: > > > > Santa balked so I contacted the seller from ebay.uk at > > http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=220460202247 and > > Howard replied with a cheap/slow shipping rate that delivers one of > > these WONDERFUL gravel cleaners to my door for less than US$20. > > > > For those of you who aren't familiar with these vacuums, they are no > > longer available in the US. And they are FAR SUPERIOR (IMHO) to the > > ones we have to choose from either in person or online from US > distributors. > > > > These vacuums come in three models. The GC30 is for small tanks. The > > GC40 is suitable for 20+ gallon and fits well into my 21" tall 55g. > > And there is also a GC50 that has an extension for taller tanks. I > > have had two GC40s in the last 25-ish years and HIGHLY recommend them. > > > > I'm thrilled to be getting a new one as a back-up in case (heaven > > forbid) I break the one I have. > > ~Kai > > in PA > > > > > > > > > > > Kai wrote: > > > > > > I'm sending Santa to ebay.uk: > > http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=350111113554 with > > instructions to try to negotiate cheaper shipping from the seller. > > > ~Kai > > > > > > > > > > > > Lenny wrote: > > > > > > > > Lucky for you, Santa hits the UK, on Christmas Eve, before > > > > crossing the pond to America, so he can pick them up on his way > here.... > > > > meaning less work for the elves. I hope you caught that part > > > > about not seeing them on any U.S./Canada websites, only on UK > websites. > > > > > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles > > > > referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, > > > > alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, > > > > Month) > > > > > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > > Kai wrote: > > > > > > > > I can't [Brooklyn grammar] believe you found them! =8oO =8oD > > > > > > > > Yes, I vaguely remember they came in several sizes. I got mine > > > > 10-15 years ago, probably from Petland Discounts (Long Island, NY) > > > > -- but they were also available in pet departments of discounters > > > > like TSS (a chain that has been out of business for close to 20 > > > > years.) > > > > > > > > THANK YOU for finding them! I'm going to put a new one on my > > > > Santa List, complete with a pointer to where Santa can find one for > me. > > > > > > > > They're far superior to the ones that are easily available. > > > > ~Kai > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Lenny wrote: > > > > > > > > > > I spoke too soon in my previous reply. A couple of more pages > > > > > of Google Image scanning found this... > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > http://www.fish-fish-fish.com/?cat=Cleaning_Tools__Nets___Thermo > > > > > me > > > > > ters > > > > > > > > > > Scroll down to near the bottom to the Tetra-Tec HydroClean > > > > > gravel vacuums and the pictures on the GC-40 and GC-50 boxes look > like yours. > > > > > This is a UK site so the prices are in Pounds but at least this > > > > > looks like yours. They have three models/sizes. I haven't seen > > > > > these in any of the only sites in the U.S. > > > > > > > > > > I did a Google of Tetra-Tec HydroClean and ALL of the top hits > > > > > had .UK website addresses. Planning a trip to the UK any time soon? > > > > > ;-) > > > > > > > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > > > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles > > > > > referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, > > > > > alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, > > > > > Month) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > > > Kai wrote: > > > > > > > > > > I've uploaded a couple of pictures of my tank vacuum at > > > > > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife/photos/album/106279770 > > > > > 3/ pic/ list and once they're approved, can anyone tell me where > > > > > to get another vacuum like that? It's still OK but getting old > > > > > and I haven't seen another like it in 10+ years. I sure would > > > > > hate to accidentally break it! > > > > > > > > > > What I like about it is that it's self-priming by pumping it up > > > > > and down in the water, the siphon flow is adjustable, it has a > > > > > good gravel grate and it unscrews into two pieces for easy > > > > > cleaning > > and storage. > > > > > > > > > > Obviously, the siphon hose is not pictured. :o) ~Kai >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 44571	From: kuradi8	Date: 11/15/2009
Subject: Re: More on Vacuums

As I told Lenny, I don't mind the bucket method. I usually only take 2 bucketfuls. Sometimes 3 if I've been neglectful. I use the vacuumed tank water to water my gardens. Fish poopie makes great fertilizer. :oP ~Kai > Amber wrote: > > I <3 my python ;) LOL. > I still use the bucket now and then, but usually on the smaller tanks > when I'm just topping off my water (I keep my house temps a little on > the warmer side since I have parrots). > I'm not sure how fancy the gravel cleaners are compared to the python, > but I find it so much easier to not have to move around buckets, > especially when I'm doing a water change on my 125 gallon tank, that'd > be way too many buckets to move ;) Now I just need to figure out why I > don't get enough water pressure out of my kitchen sink to get a vacuum > going, it only works upstairs in the bathroom, which seems a waste of > water if I'm using it downstairs. > > Amber > > Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > > > > At that price, I'd have to go with a Python (or other similar brand) and > > then you won't need the buckets either. A Python (or imitation Python) can > > be purchased for around $25.00, the last time I checked. > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > Kai wrote: > > > > Santa balked so I contacted the seller from ebay.uk at > > http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=220460202247 > > <http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=220460202247> > > and Howard > > replied with a cheap/slow shipping rate that delivers one of these > > WONDERFUL > > gravel cleaners to my door for less than US$20. > > > > For those of you who aren't familiar with these vacuums, they are no > > longer > > available in the US. And they are FAR SUPERIOR (IMHO) to the ones we have > > to choose from either in person or online from US distributors. > > > > These vacuums come in three models. The GC30 is for small tanks. The GC40 > > is suitable for 20+ gallon and fits well into my 21" tall 55g. And > > there is > > also a GC50 that has an extension for taller tanks. I have had two > > GC40s in > > the last 25-ish years and HIGHLY recommend them. > > > > I'm thrilled to be getting a new one as a back-up in case (heaven > > forbid) I > > break the one I have. > > ~Kai > > in PA > > > > > Kai wrote: > > > > > > I'm sending Santa to ebay.uk: > > http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=350111113554 > > <http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=350111113554> with > > instructions to try to negotiate cheaper shipping from the seller. > > > ~Kai > > > > > > > > > > > > Lenny wrote: > > > > > > > > Lucky for you, Santa hits the UK, on Christmas Eve, before crossing > > > > the pond to America, so he can pick them up on his way here.... > > > > meaning less work for the elves. I hope you caught that part about > > > > not seeing them on any U.S./Canada websites, only on UK websites. > > > > > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > > > > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > > Kai wrote: > > > > > > > > I can't [Brooklyn grammar] believe you found them! =8oO =8oD > > > > > > > > Yes, I vaguely remember they came in several sizes. I got mine > > > > 10-15 years ago, probably from Petland Discounts (Long Island, NY) > > > > -- but they were also available in pet departments of discounters > > > > like TSS (a chain that has been out of business for close to 20 > > > > years.) > > > > > > > > THANK YOU for finding them! I'm going to put a new one on my Santa > > > > List, complete with a pointer to where Santa can find one for me. > > > > > > > > They're far superior to the ones that are easily available. > > > > ~Kai > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Lenny wrote: > > > > > > > > > > I spoke too soon in my previous reply. A couple of more pages of > > > > > Google Image scanning found this... > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > http://www.fish-fish-fish.com/?cat=Cleaning_Tools__Nets___Thermome > > <http://www.fish-fish-fish.com/?cat=Cleaning_Tools__Nets___Thermome> > > > > > ters > > > > > > > > > > Scroll down to near the bottom to the Tetra-Tec HydroClean gravel > > > > > vacuums and the pictures on the GC-40 and GC-50 boxes look like > > yours. > > > > > This is a UK site so the prices are in Pounds but at least this > > > > > looks like yours. They have three models/sizes. I haven't seen > > > > > these in any of the only sites in the U.S. > > > > > > > > > > I did a Google of Tetra-Tec HydroClean and ALL of the top hits had > > > > > .UK website addresses. Planning a trip to the UK any time soon? > > > > > ;-) > > > > > > > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > > > Kai wrote: > > > > > > > > > > I've uploaded a couple of pictures of my tank vacuum at > > > > > > > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife/photos/album/1062797703/ > > <http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife/photos/album/1062797703/> > > > > > pic/ list and once they're approved, can anyone tell me where to > > > > > get another vacuum like that? It's still OK but getting old and I > > > > > haven't seen another like it in 10+ years. I sure would hate to > > > > > accidentally break it! > > > > > > > > > > What I like about it is that it's self-priming by pumping it up > > > > > and down in the water, the siphon flow is adjustable, it has a > > > > > good gravel grate and it unscrews into two pieces for easy cleaning > > and storage. > > > > > > > > > > Obviously, the siphon hose is not pictured. :o) ~Kai > > > > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 44572	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 11/15/2009
Subject: Re: 1500 Gallon Outdoor Aquarium Is Not Drive Thru

Mullets are short on top, and shag below. No shag here, though there may be some shagging going on <g>. \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Lenny V. aka GoldLenny Sent: Sunday, November 15, 2009 2:51 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] 1500 Gallon Outdoor Aquarium Is Not Drive Thru I thought, without the pony tail, wouldn't that be a mullet? I'm not sure the other Dead Heads would allow you around with a mullet. ;-) Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Steve Szabo Sent: Sunday, November 15, 2009 1:39 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] 1500 Gallon Outdoor Aquarium Is Not Drive Thru If I have not gone bald by now, it is unlikely that I will go bald, so that should not be a concern. However, it does not look bad with a short top, and a long back in a pony tail or not. \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Lenny V. aka GoldLenny Sent: Sunday, November 15, 2009 1:22 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] 1500 Gallon Outdoor Aquarium Is Not Drive Thru Just watch out for them flashbacks. ;-) So.... when you go bald on top, will you still keep working the ponytail? :-P Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Steve Szabo Sent: Sunday, November 15, 2009 11:51 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] 1500 Gallon Outdoor Aquarium Is Not Drive Thru Yes, I saw her post, and it may have well been hers when I clicked on the link. The problem I have is that I keep reading mail, and click on links, and then, when I get to a link, I may have no idea where it came from. I try to get to all the tabs in the browser by the end of the week, but I have a grateful Dead concert (at Winterland, 3/18/1967, Set 1) to listen to from about two weeks ago, and a Steppenwolf show at Fillmore West from 8/28/1968. Wandering the web can be such tough work. \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Lenny V. aka GoldLenny Sent: Sunday, November 15, 2009 12:00 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] 1500 Gallon Outdoor Aquarium Is Not Drive Thru LOL. Nope, it was the 1,500G Tampa Airport aquarium and I now see that Donna Ransome came forward as the originator of the article last week or so. The magazines I sneak peeks at are not usually displayed on the grocery store check-out racks but I'm only looking at them because I'm interested in the articles! ;-) I heard that Bill O'Reilly is even written about in a recent one, but I do not recall which magazine so I guess I'll have to keep looking through all of them till I find that elusive article. ;-) Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Steve Szabo Sent: Sunday, November 15, 2009 7:47 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] 1500 Gallon Outdoor Aquarium Is Not Drive Thru Are you sure you are not thinking of the outdoor aquarium that was on Craig's List? Or were you too busy looking at all the other women's magazines on the grocery store rack to see if you could find a story to top the one I posted? \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Lenny V. aka GoldLenny Sent: Sunday, November 15, 2009 2:47 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] 1500 Gallon Outdoor Aquarium Is Not Drive Thru You did and we had a vivid, entertaining and enlightening thread about it. You must have been busy reading that Woman's Day magazine and missed it all. LOL Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Steve Szabo Sent: Sunday, November 15, 2009 12:27 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] 1500 Gallon Outdoor Aquarium Is Not Drive Thru I thought I had posted this earlier in the week, but looking over my sent items, it appears I have not. Woman with boy in lap plows truck into TIA wall, damaging an aquarium, killing fish, http://www.tampabay.com/news/publicsafety/accidents/woman-with-boy-in-lap-pl ows-truck-into-tia-wall-destroying-aquarium/1050673 http://tinyurl.com/yhuwsua TAMPA - A woman with a 6-year-old child in her lap crashed her small truck into the side of Tampa International Airport on Monday night, damaging an aquarium outside the American Airlines baggage claim. Tire marks show the 1994 red Ford Ranger's path over the curb and into the tank, barely missing a concrete pole on the left and the airport's tiled wall on the right. . . . \\Steve// ------------------------------------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. 74/`7.88.><((((:>.74/`7.88.74/`7.8><((((:> 8.74/`7.8. , .74/`7..><((((:> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <:((((><.74/`7.88.74/`7.8<:((((><8.74/`7.8. , .74/`7..<:((((><74/`7.88. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the home page. Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com to receive the digest, which includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com for the No E-Mail option where you will still be able to read messages on the group and post replies. Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com to receive individual e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links ------------------------------------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. 74/`7.88.><((((:>.74/`7.88.74/`7.8><((((:> 8.74/`7.8. , .74/`7..><((((:> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <:((((><.74/`7.88.74/`7.8<:((((><8.74/`7.8. , .74/`7..<:((((><74/`7.88. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the home page. Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com to receive the digest, which includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com for the No E-Mail option where you will still be able to read messages on the group and post replies. Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com to receive individual e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links ------------------------------------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. 74/`7.88.><((((:>.74/`7.88.74/`7.8><((((:> 8.74/`7.8. , .74/`7..><((((:> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <:((((><.74/`7.88.74/`7.8<:((((><8.74/`7.8. , .74/`7..<:((((><74/`7.88. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the home page. Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com to receive the digest, which includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com for the No E-Mail option where you will still be able to read messages on the group and post replies. Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com to receive individual e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 44573	From: sevenspringss@wmconnect.com	Date: 11/15/2009
Subject: Re: Aquarium heater sedimentation?

If the shipping is $15, and that's with a 75% discount, the original shipping cost would be $60. Ray [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 44574	From: sevenspringss@wmconnect.com	Date: 11/15/2009
Subject: Re: Aquarium heater sedimentation?

If they ship it by Ground, do they put it on dog sled in the Winter? <g> I could see how it may cost more -- got to feed those dogs! Ray [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 44575	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 11/15/2009
Subject: Re: Aquarium heater sedimentation?

Ray, Don't forget the batteries they need to carry for the lights for the 6 months of darkness up there. \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of sevenspringss@... Sent: Sunday, November 15, 2009 5:09 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: Aquarium heater sedimentation? If they ship it by Ground, do they put it on dog sled in the Winter? <g> I could see how it may cost more -- got to feed those dogs! Ray [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] ------------------------------------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. 74/`7.88.><((((:>.74/`7.88.74/`7.8><((((:> 8.74/`7.8. , .74/`7..><((((:> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <:((((><.74/`7.88.74/`7.8<:((((><8.74/`7.8. , .74/`7..<:((((><74/`7.88. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the home page. Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com to receive the digest, which includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com for the No E-Mail option where you will still be able to read messages on the group and post replies. Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com to receive individual e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 44576	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 11/15/2009
Subject: Re: Aquarium heater sedimentation?

That only happens up north, I'm lucky to still have about 6-7 hours of daylight each day through the winter (I know, not much, but better than nothing), granted most of the winter tends to be fairly overcast, but on those gorgeous clear (cold, icy) days it's not so bad, just watch that black ice, LOL. Also I don't get the discount on ground because I don't work for ground, they run ground as a separate company. I end up paying about 5 dollars more to send the same package ground as it wound to send it fed ex 2nd day, and it'd take 10 days longer, LOL. Amber Steve Szabo wrote: > > Ray, > > Don't forget the batteries they need to carry for the lights for the 6 > months of darkness up there. > > \\Steve// > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On > Behalf Of sevenspringss@... > <mailto:sevenspringss%40wmconnect.com> > Sent: Sunday, November 15, 2009 5:09 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: Aquarium heater sedimentation? > > If they ship it by Ground, do they put it on dog sled in the Winter? > <g> I > could see how it may cost more -- got to feed those dogs! Ray > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > ------------------------------------ > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. > 74/`7.88.><((((:>.74/`7.88.74/`7.8><((((:> 8.74/`7.8. , .74/`7..><((((:> > PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to > the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the > SUBJECT > LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- > <:((((><.74/`7.88.74/`7.8<:((((><8.74/`7.8. , .74/`7..<:((((><74/`7.88. > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. > > If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of unsubscribing, you > can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the > home page. > > Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:aquaticlife-digest%40yahoogroups.com> to receive the digest, which > includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email > > Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:aquaticlife-nomail%40yahoogroups.com> for the No E-Mail option > where > you will still be able to read messages on the group and post replies. > > Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:aquaticlife-normal%40yahoogroups.com> to receive individual > e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 44577	From: bill 1433	Date: 11/15/2009
Subject: Re: Aquarium heater sedimentation?

Now I got this part, it's the dogs with the batteries I'm having trouble with! Bill --- On Sun, 11/15/09, Amber Berglund <arberglund@...> wrote: > From: Amber Berglund <arberglund@...> > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: Aquarium heater sedimentation? > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Date: Sunday, November 15, 2009, 5:48 PM > That only happens up north, I'm lucky > to still have about 6-7 hours of > daylight each day through the winter (I know, not much, but > better than > nothing), granted most of the winter tends to be fairly > overcast, but on > those gorgeous clear (cold, icy) days it's not so bad, just > watch that > black ice, LOL. > Also I don't get the discount on ground because I don't > work for ground, > they run ground as a separate company. I end up paying > about 5 dollars > more to send the same package ground as it wound to send it > fed ex 2nd > day, and it'd take 10 days longer, LOL. > > Amber > > Steve Szabo wrote: > > > > Ray, > > > > Don't forget the batteries they need to carry for the > lights for the 6 > > months of darkness up there. > > > > \\Steve// > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On > > Behalf Of sevenspringss@... > > > <mailto:sevenspringss%40wmconnect.com> > > Sent: Sunday, November 15, 2009 5:09 PM > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: Aquarium heater > sedimentation? > > > > If they ship it by Ground, do they put it on dog sled > in the Winter? > > <g> I > > could see how it may cost more -- got to feed those > dogs! Ray > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > ------------------------------------ > > > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when > replying, Thank You. > > > 74/`7.88.><((((:>.74/`7.88.74/`7.8><((((:> > 8.74/`7.8. , .74/`7..><((((:> > > PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that > is NOT important to > > the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original > message MODIFY the > > SUBJECT > > LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" > <- > > > <:((((><.74/`7.88.74/`7.8<:((((><8.74/`7.8. > , .74/`7..<:((((><74/`7.88. > > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. > > > > If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead > of unsubscribing, you > > can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit > My Membership" on the > > home page. > > > > Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com > > > <mailto:aquaticlife-digest%40yahoogroups.com> to > receive the digest, which > > includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email > > > > Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com > > > <mailto:aquaticlife-nomail%40yahoogroups.com> > for the No E-Mail option > > where > > you will still be able to read messages on the group > and post replies. > > > > Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com > > > <mailto:aquaticlife-normal%40yahoogroups.com> to > receive individual > > e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > > ------------------------------------ > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when > replying, Thank You. > ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> > ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> > PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is > NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of > the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new > subject (was re: old subject)" <- > <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. > , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. > > If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of > unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by > clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the home page.  > > Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com > to receive the digest, which includes up to 25 posts at a > time in a single email > > Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com > for the No E-Mail option where you will still be able to > read messages on the group and post replies. > > Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com > to receive individual e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links > > >     AquaticLife-fullfeatured@yahoogroups.com > > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 44578	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 11/15/2009
Subject: Re: Aquarium heater sedimentation?

Got me, my dog doesn't have any batteries, but produces plenty of poop ;) LOL Perhaps someone was talking about robotic dogs? ;) Amber bill 1433 wrote: > > Now I got this part, > it's the dogs with the batteries I'm having trouble with! > > Bill > > --- On Sun, 11/15/09, Amber Berglund <arberglund@... > <mailto:arberglund%40gmail.com>> wrote: > > > From: Amber Berglund <arberglund@... > <mailto:arberglund%40gmail.com>> > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: Aquarium heater sedimentation? > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > Date: Sunday, November 15, 2009, 5:48 PM > > That only happens up north, I'm lucky > > to still have about 6-7 hours of > > daylight each day through the winter (I know, not much, but > > better than > > nothing), granted most of the winter tends to be fairly > > overcast, but on > > those gorgeous clear (cold, icy) days it's not so bad, just > > watch that > > black ice, LOL. > > Also I don't get the discount on ground because I don't > > work for ground, > > they run ground as a separate company. I end up paying > > about 5 dollars > > more to send the same package ground as it wound to send it > > fed ex 2nd > > day, and it'd take 10 days longer, LOL. > > > > Amber > > > > Steve Szabo wrote: > > > > > > Ray, > > > > > > Don't forget the batteries they need to carry for the > > lights for the 6 > > > months of darkness up there. > > > > > > \\Steve// > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On > > > Behalf Of sevenspringss@... > <mailto:sevenspringss%40wmconnect.com> > > > > > <mailto:sevenspringss%40wmconnect.com> > > > Sent: Sunday, November 15, 2009 5:09 PM > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: Aquarium heater > > sedimentation? > > > > > > If they ship it by Ground, do they put it on dog sled > > in the Winter? > > > <g> I > > > could see how it may cost more -- got to feed those > > dogs! Ray > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > > > ------------------------------------ > > > > > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when > > replying, Thank You. > > > > > 74/`7.88.><((((:>.74/`7.88.74/`7.8><((((:> > > 8.74/`7.8. , .74/`7..><((((:> > > > PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that > > is NOT important to > > > the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original > > message MODIFY the > > > SUBJECT > > > LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" > > <- > > > > > <:((((><.74/`7.88.74/`7.8<:((((><8.74/`7.8. > > , .74/`7..<:((((><74/`7.88. > > > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. > > > > > > If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead > > of unsubscribing, you > > > can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit > > My Membership" on the > > > home page. > > > > > > Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:aquaticlife-digest%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > <mailto:aquaticlife-digest%40yahoogroups.com> to > > receive the digest, which > > > includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email > > > > > > Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:aquaticlife-nomail%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > <mailto:aquaticlife-nomail%40yahoogroups.com> > > for the No E-Mail option > > > where > > > you will still be able to read messages on the group > > and post replies. > > > > > > Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:aquaticlife-normal%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > <mailto:aquaticlife-normal%40yahoogroups.com> to > > receive individual > > > e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > > > > > > > ------------------------------------ > > > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when > > replying, Thank You. > > ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> > > ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> > > PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is > > NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of > > the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new > > subject (was re: old subject)" <- > > <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. > > , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. > > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. > > > > If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of > > unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by > > clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the home page. > > > > Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:aquaticlife-digest%40yahoogroups.com> > > to receive the digest, which includes up to 25 posts at a > > time in a single email > > > > Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:aquaticlife-nomail%40yahoogroups.com> > > for the No E-Mail option where you will still be able to > > read messages on the group and post replies. > > > > Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:aquaticlife-normal%40yahoogroups.com> > > to receive individual e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > AquaticLife-fullfeatured@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife-fullfeatured%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 44579	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 11/15/2009
Subject: Re: Aquarium heater sedimentation?

Batteries to provide electricity for the lights needed during the 6 months of darkness when the Aurora borealis does not provide enough light. They would also be needed to pride heat for any living animals in the same shipment. Geez, when you need to explain a joke, it takes all the fun out of it. \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of bill 1433 Sent: Sunday, November 15, 2009 6:11 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: Aquarium heater sedimentation? Now I got this part, it's the dogs with the batteries I'm having trouble with! Bill --- On Sun, 11/15/09, Amber Berglund <arberglund@...> wrote: > From: Amber Berglund <arberglund@...> > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: Aquarium heater sedimentation? > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Date: Sunday, November 15, 2009, 5:48 PM > That only happens up north, I'm lucky > to still have about 6-7 hours of > daylight each day through the winter (I know, not much, but > better than > nothing), granted most of the winter tends to be fairly > overcast, but on > those gorgeous clear (cold, icy) days it's not so bad, just > watch that > black ice, LOL. > Also I don't get the discount on ground because I don't > work for ground, > they run ground as a separate company. I end up paying > about 5 dollars > more to send the same package ground as it wound to send it > fed ex 2nd > day, and it'd take 10 days longer, LOL. > > Amber > > Steve Szabo wrote: > > > > Ray, > > > > Don't forget the batteries they need to carry for the > lights for the 6 > > months of darkness up there. > > > > \\Steve// > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On > > Behalf Of sevenspringss@... > > > <mailto:sevenspringss%40wmconnect.com> > > Sent: Sunday, November 15, 2009 5:09 PM > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: Aquarium heater > sedimentation? > > > > If they ship it by Ground, do they put it on dog sled > in the Winter? > > <g> I > > could see how it may cost more -- got to feed those > dogs! Ray > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 44580	From: bill 1433	Date: 11/15/2009
Subject: Re: Aquarium heater sedimentation?

Thanks for the clarify \\Steve// <g> But to tell you the truth, I thought it was just as funny even with the explanation! //Bill\\! --- On Sun, 11/15/09, Steve Szabo <steve@...> wrote: > From: Steve Szabo <steve@...> > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: Aquarium heater sedimentation? > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Date: Sunday, November 15, 2009, 6:24 PM > Batteries to provide electricity for > the lights needed during the 6 months > of darkness when the Aurora borealis does not provide > enough light. They > would also be needed to pride heat for any living animals > in the same > shipment. > > Geez, when you need to explain a joke, it takes all the fun > out of it. > > \\Steve// > > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] > On > Behalf Of bill 1433 > Sent: Sunday, November 15, 2009 6:11 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: Aquarium heater > sedimentation? > > Now I got this part, > it's the dogs with the batteries I'm having trouble with! > > Bill > > --- On Sun, 11/15/09, Amber Berglund <arberglund@...> > wrote: > > > From: Amber Berglund <arberglund@...> > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: Aquarium heater > sedimentation? > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > Date: Sunday, November 15, 2009, 5:48 PM > > That only happens up north, I'm lucky > > to still have about 6-7 hours of > > daylight each day through the winter (I know, not > much, but > > better than > > nothing), granted most of the winter tends to be > fairly > > overcast, but on > > those gorgeous clear (cold, icy) days it's not so bad, > just > > watch that > > black ice, LOL. > > Also I don't get the discount on ground because I > don't > > work for ground, > > they run ground as a separate company. I end up > paying > > about 5 dollars > > more to send the same package ground as it wound to > send it > > fed ex 2nd > > day, and it'd take 10 days longer, LOL. > > > > Amber > > > > Steve Szabo wrote: > > > > > > Ray, > > > > > > Don't forget the batteries they need to carry for > the > > lights for the 6 > > > months of darkness up there. > > > > > > \\Steve// > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On > > > Behalf Of sevenspringss@... > > > > > <mailto:sevenspringss%40wmconnect.com> > > > Sent: Sunday, November 15, 2009 5:09 PM > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: Aquarium heater > > sedimentation? > > > > > > If they ship it by Ground, do they put it on dog > sled > > in the Winter? > > > <g> I > > > could see how it may cost more -- got to feed > those > > dogs! Ray > > > > > > > ------------------------------------ > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when > replying, Thank You. > ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> > ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> > PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is > NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of > the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new > subject (was re: old subject)" <- > <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. > , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. > > If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of > unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by > clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the home page.  > > Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com > to receive the digest, which includes up to 25 posts at a > time in a single email > > Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com > for the No E-Mail option where you will still be able to > read messages on the group and post replies. > > Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com > to receive individual e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links > > >     AquaticLife-fullfeatured@yahoogroups.com > > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 44581	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 11/15/2009
Subject: Re: Aquarium heater sedimentation?

I thought the standard warning was about yellow snow, not black ice. ;-) Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Amber Berglund Sent: Sunday, November 15, 2009 4:48 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: Aquarium heater sedimentation? That only happens up north, I'm lucky to still have about 6-7 hours of daylight each day through the winter (I know, not much, but better than nothing), granted most of the winter tends to be fairly overcast, but on those gorgeous clear (cold, icy) days it's not so bad, just watch that black ice, LOL. Also I don't get the discount on ground because I don't work for ground, they run ground as a separate company. I end up paying about 5 dollars more to send the same package ground as it wound to send it fed ex 2nd day, and it'd take 10 days longer, LOL. Amber Steve Szabo wrote: > > Ray, > > Don't forget the batteries they need to carry for the lights for the 6 > months of darkness up there. > > \\Steve// > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On Behalf Of > sevenspringss@... <mailto:sevenspringss%40wmconnect.com> > Sent: Sunday, November 15, 2009 5:09 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: Aquarium heater sedimentation? > > If they ship it by Ground, do they put it on dog sled in the Winter? > <g> I > could see how it may cost more -- got to feed those dogs! Ray

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 44582	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 11/15/2009
Subject: Re: Aquarium heater sedimentation?

I think we're having a Frick & Frack moment... or for modern times, Dumberer & Dumbererer.. LOL Finish reading the sentence... "... for the 6 months of darkness up there". Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Amber Berglund Sent: Sunday, November 15, 2009 5:13 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: Aquarium heater sedimentation? Got me, my dog doesn't have any batteries, but produces plenty of poop ;) LOL Perhaps someone was talking about robotic dogs? ;) Amber bill 1433 wrote: > > Now I got this part, > it's the dogs with the batteries I'm having trouble with! > > Bill > > --- On Sun, 11/15/09, Amber Berglund <arberglund@... > <mailto:arberglund%40gmail.com>> wrote: > > > From: Amber Berglund <arberglund@... > <mailto:arberglund%40gmail.com>> > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: Aquarium heater sedimentation? > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > Date: Sunday, November 15, 2009, 5:48 PM That only happens up north, > > I'm lucky to still have about 6-7 hours of daylight each day through > > the winter (I know, not much, but better than nothing), granted most > > of the winter tends to be fairly overcast, but on those gorgeous > > clear (cold, icy) days it's not so bad, just watch that black ice, > > LOL. > > Also I don't get the discount on ground because I don't work for > > ground, they run ground as a separate company. I end up paying about > > 5 dollars more to send the same package ground as it wound to send > > it fed ex 2nd day, and it'd take 10 days longer, LOL. > > > > Amber > > > > Steve Szabo wrote: > > > > > > Ray, > > > > > > Don't forget the batteries they need to carry for the > > lights for the 6 > > > months of darkness up there. > > > > > > \\Steve// > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On Behalf Of > > > sevenspringss@... > <mailto:sevenspringss%40wmconnect.com> > > > > > <mailto:sevenspringss%40wmconnect.com> > > > Sent: Sunday, November 15, 2009 5:09 PM > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: Aquarium heater > > sedimentation? > > > > > > If they ship it by Ground, do they put it on dog sled > > in the Winter? > > > <g> I > > > could see how it may cost more -- got to feed those > > dogs! Ray > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > > > ------------------------------------ > > > > > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when > > replying, Thank You. > > > > > 74/`7.88.><((((:>.74/`7.88.74/`7.8><((((:> > > 8.74/`7.8. , .74/`7..><((((:> > > > PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that > > is NOT important to > > > the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original > > message MODIFY the > > > SUBJECT > > > LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" > > <- > > > > > <:((((><.74/`7.88.74/`7.8<:((((><8.74/`7.8. > > , .74/`7..<:((((><74/`7.88. > > > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. > > > > > > If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead > > of unsubscribing, you > > > can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit > > My Membership" on the > > > home page. > > > > > > Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:aquaticlife-digest%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > <mailto:aquaticlife-digest%40yahoogroups.com> to > > receive the digest, which > > > includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email > > > > > > Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:aquaticlife-nomail%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > <mailto:aquaticlife-nomail%40yahoogroups.com> > > for the No E-Mail option > > > where > > > you will still be able to read messages on the group > > and post replies. > > > > > > Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:aquaticlife-normal%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > <mailto:aquaticlife-normal%40yahoogroups.com> to > > receive individual > > > e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > > > > > > > ------------------------------------ > > > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, > > Thank You. > > ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> > > ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> > > PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT > > important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original > > message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old > > subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. > > , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. > > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. > > > > If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of > > unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by clicking on > > "Edit My Membership" on the home page. > > > > Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:aquaticlife-digest%40yahoogroups.com> > > to receive the digest, which includes up to 25 posts at a time in a > > single email > > > > Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:aquaticlife-nomail%40yahoogroups.com> > > for the No E-Mail option where you will still be able to read > > messages on the group and post replies. > > > > Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:aquaticlife-normal%40yahoogroups.com> > > to receive individual e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > AquaticLife-fullfeatured@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife-fullfeatured%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > > ------------------------------------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the home page. Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com to receive the digest, which includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com for the No E-Mail option where you will still be able to read messages on the group and post replies. Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com to receive individual e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 44583	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 11/15/2009
Subject: Re: Aquarium heater sedimentation?

"Pride heat"? Is that the kind of heat that's needed for shortened trips when you don't have to *provide* heat? Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Steve Szabo Sent: Sunday, November 15, 2009 5:25 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: Aquarium heater sedimentation? Batteries to provide electricity for the lights needed during the 6 months of darkness when the Aurora borealis does not provide enough light. They would also be needed to pride heat for any living animals in the same shipment. Geez, when you need to explain a joke, it takes all the fun out of it. \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of bill 1433 Sent: Sunday, November 15, 2009 6:11 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: Aquarium heater sedimentation? Now I got this part, it's the dogs with the batteries I'm having trouble with! Bill --- On Sun, 11/15/09, Amber Berglund <arberglund@...> wrote: > From: Amber Berglund <arberglund@...> > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: Aquarium heater sedimentation? > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Date: Sunday, November 15, 2009, 5:48 PM That only happens up north, > I'm lucky to still have about 6-7 hours of daylight each day through > the winter (I know, not much, but better than nothing), granted most > of the winter tends to be fairly overcast, but on those gorgeous clear > (cold, icy) days it's not so bad, just watch that black ice, LOL. > Also I don't get the discount on ground because I don't work for > ground, they run ground as a separate company. I end up paying about 5 > dollars more to send the same package ground as it wound to send it > fed ex 2nd day, and it'd take 10 days longer, LOL. > > Amber > > Steve Szabo wrote: > > > > Ray, > > > > Don't forget the batteries they need to carry for the > lights for the 6 > > months of darkness up there. > > > > \\Steve// > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On Behalf Of > > sevenspringss@... > > > <mailto:sevenspringss%40wmconnect.com> > > Sent: Sunday, November 15, 2009 5:09 PM > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: Aquarium heater > sedimentation? > > > > If they ship it by Ground, do they put it on dog sled > in the Winter? > > <g> I > > could see how it may cost more -- got to feed those > dogs! Ray

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 44584	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 11/15/2009
Subject: Re: Aquarium heater sedimentation?

And now Google is wondering why there has been a sudden increase in the search term, "Aurora borealis". Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of bill 1433 Sent: Sunday, November 15, 2009 6:02 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: Aquarium heater sedimentation? Thanks for the clarify \\Steve// <g> But to tell you the truth, I thought it was just as funny even with the explanation! //Bill\\! --- On Sun, 11/15/09, Steve Szabo <steve@...> wrote: > From: Steve Szabo <steve@...> > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: Aquarium heater sedimentation? > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Date: Sunday, November 15, 2009, 6:24 PM Batteries to provide > electricity for the lights needed during the 6 months of darkness when > the Aurora borealis does not provide enough light. They would also be > needed to pride heat for any living animals in the same shipment. > > Geez, when you need to explain a joke, it takes all the fun out of it. > > \\Steve// > > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] > On > Behalf Of bill 1433 > Sent: Sunday, November 15, 2009 6:11 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: Aquarium heater sedimentation? > > Now I got this part, > it's the dogs with the batteries I'm having trouble with! > > Bill > > --- On Sun, 11/15/09, Amber Berglund <arberglund@...> > wrote: > > > From: Amber Berglund <arberglund@...> > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: Aquarium heater > sedimentation? > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > Date: Sunday, November 15, 2009, 5:48 PM That only happens up north, > > I'm lucky to still have about 6-7 hours of daylight each day through > > the winter (I know, not > much, but > > better than > > nothing), granted most of the winter tends to be > fairly > > overcast, but on > > those gorgeous clear (cold, icy) days it's not so bad, > just > > watch that > > black ice, LOL. > > Also I don't get the discount on ground because I > don't > > work for ground, > > they run ground as a separate company. I end up > paying > > about 5 dollars > > more to send the same package ground as it wound to > send it > > fed ex 2nd > > day, and it'd take 10 days longer, LOL. > > > > Amber > > > > Steve Szabo wrote: > > > > > > Ray, > > > > > > Don't forget the batteries they need to carry for > the > > lights for the 6 > > > months of darkness up there. > > > > > > \\Steve// > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On Behalf Of > > > sevenspringss@... > > > > > <mailto:sevenspringss%40wmconnect.com> > > > Sent: Sunday, November 15, 2009 5:09 PM > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: Aquarium heater > > sedimentation? > > > > > > If they ship it by Ground, do they put it on dog > sled > > in the Winter? > > > <g> I > > > could see how it may cost more -- got to feed > those > > dogs! Ray

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 44585	From: Dawn C.	Date: 11/15/2009
Subject: Re: Aquarium heater sedimentation?

Lenny I am subscribed to web only and still getting everyones email? What do I need to do it is filling up my mailbox. Does it just take a moment? Thanks I am new. Dawn The Cleaner Way Cleaning Services Entreprenuer, Yoga Buff and Outdoor Lover www.thecleanerway.com (512)663-6200 -----Original Message----- From: "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@...> Date: Sun, 15 Nov 2009 18:59:00 To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com> Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: Aquarium heater sedimentation? I think we're having a Frick & Frack moment... or for modern times, Dumberer & Dumbererer.. LOL Finish reading the sentence... "... for the 6 months of darkness up there". Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Amber Berglund Sent: Sunday, November 15, 2009 5:13 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: Aquarium heater sedimentation? Got me, my dog doesn't have any batteries, but produces plenty of poop ;) LOL Perhaps someone was talking about robotic dogs? ;) Amber bill 1433 wrote: > > Now I got this part, > it's the dogs with the batteries I'm having trouble with! > > Bill > > --- On Sun, 11/15/09, Amber Berglund <arberglund@... > <mailto:arberglund%40gmail.com>> wrote: > > > From: Amber Berglund <arberglund@... > <mailto:arberglund%40gmail.com>> > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: Aquarium heater sedimentation? > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > Date: Sunday, November 15, 2009, 5:48 PM That only happens up north, > > I'm lucky to still have about 6-7 hours of daylight each day through > > the winter (I know, not much, but better than nothing), granted most > > of the winter tends to be fairly overcast, but on those gorgeous > > clear (cold, icy) days it's not so bad, just watch that black ice, > > LOL. > > Also I don't get the discount on ground because I don't work for > > ground, they run ground as a separate company. I end up paying about > > 5 dollars more to send the same package ground as it wound to send > > it fed ex 2nd day, and it'd take 10 days longer, LOL. > > > > Amber > > > > Steve Szabo wrote: > > > > > > Ray, > > > > > > Don't forget the batteries they need to carry for the > > lights for the 6 > > > months of darkness up there. > > > > > > \\Steve// > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On Behalf Of > > > sevenspringss@... > <mailto:sevenspringss%40wmconnect.com> > > > > > <mailto:sevenspringss%40wmconnect.com> > > > Sent: Sunday, November 15, 2009 5:09 PM > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: Aquarium heater > > sedimentation? > > > > > > If they ship it by Ground, do they put it on dog sled > > in the Winter? > > > <g> I > > > could see how it may cost more -- got to feed those > > dogs! Ray > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > > > ------------------------------------ > > > > > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when > > replying, Thank You. > > > > > 74/`7.88.><((((:>.74/`7.88.74/`7.8><((((:> > > 8.74/`7.8. , .74/`7..><((((:> > > > PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that > > is NOT important to > > > the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original > > message MODIFY the > > > SUBJECT > > > LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" > > <- > > > > > <:((((><.74/`7.88.74/`7.8<:((((><8.74/`7.8. > > , .74/`7..<:((((><74/`7.88. > > > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. > > > > > > If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead > > of unsubscribing, you > > > can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit > > My Membership" on the > > > home page. > > > > > > Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:aquaticlife-digest%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > <mailto:aquaticlife-digest%40yahoogroups.com> to > > receive the digest, which > > > includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email > > > > > > Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:aquaticlife-nomail%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > <mailto:aquaticlife-nomail%40yahoogroups.com> > > for the No E-Mail option > > > where > > > you will still be able to read messages on the group > > and post replies. > > > > > > Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:aquaticlife-normal%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > <mailto:aquaticlife-normal%40yahoogroups.com> to > > receive individual > > > e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > > > > > > > ------------------------------------ > > > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, > > Thank You. > > ���`�.��.><((((�>.���`�.��.���`�.�><((((�> > > �.���`�.�. , .���`�..><((((�> > > PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT > > important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original > > message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old > > subject)" <- <�((((><.���`�.��.���`�.�<�((((><�.���`�.�. > > , .���`�..<�((((><���`�.��. > > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. > > > > If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of > > unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by clicking on > > "Edit My Membership" on the home page. > > > > Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:aquaticlife-digest%40yahoogroups.com> > > to receive the digest, which includes up to 25 posts at a time in a > > single email > > > > Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:aquaticlife-nomail%40yahoogroups.com> > > for the No E-Mail option where you will still be able to read > > messages on the group and post replies. > > > > Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:aquaticlife-normal%40yahoogroups.com> > > to receive individual e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > AquaticLife-fullfeatured@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife-fullfeatured%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > > ------------------------------------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. ���`�.��.><((((�>.���`�.��.���`�.�><((((�> �.���`�.�. , .���`�..><((((�> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <�((((><.���`�.��.���`�.�<�((((><�.���`�.�. , .���`�..<�((((><���`�.��. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the home page. Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com to receive the digest, which includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com for the No E-Mail option where you will still be able to read messages on the group and post replies. Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com to receive individual e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 44586	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 11/15/2009
Subject: Re: Aquarium heater sedimentation?

Lenny, When the cargo is lions, there is pride heat. I think I'll need to provide myself with a new keyboard. I know I hit all the right keys. \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Lenny V. aka GoldLenny Sent: Sunday, November 15, 2009 8:01 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: Aquarium heater sedimentation? "Pride heat"? Is that the kind of heat that's needed for shortened trips when you don't have to *provide* heat? Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Steve Szabo Sent: Sunday, November 15, 2009 5:25 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: Aquarium heater sedimentation? Batteries to provide electricity for the lights needed during the 6 months of darkness when the Aurora borealis does not provide enough light. They would also be needed to pride heat for any living animals in the same shipment. Geez, when you need to explain a joke, it takes all the fun out of it. \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of bill 1433 Sent: Sunday, November 15, 2009 6:11 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: Aquarium heater sedimentation? Now I got this part, it's the dogs with the batteries I'm having trouble with! Bill --- On Sun, 11/15/09, Amber Berglund <arberglund@...> wrote: > From: Amber Berglund <arberglund@...> > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: Aquarium heater sedimentation? > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Date: Sunday, November 15, 2009, 5:48 PM That only happens up north, > I'm lucky to still have about 6-7 hours of daylight each day through > the winter (I know, not much, but better than nothing), granted most > of the winter tends to be fairly overcast, but on those gorgeous clear > (cold, icy) days it's not so bad, just watch that black ice, LOL. > Also I don't get the discount on ground because I don't work for > ground, they run ground as a separate company. I end up paying about 5 > dollars more to send the same package ground as it wound to send it > fed ex 2nd day, and it'd take 10 days longer, LOL. > > Amber > > Steve Szabo wrote: > > > > Ray, > > > > Don't forget the batteries they need to carry for the > lights for the 6 > > months of darkness up there. > > > > \\Steve// > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On Behalf Of > > sevenspringss@... > > > <mailto:sevenspringss%40wmconnect.com> > > Sent: Sunday, November 15, 2009 5:09 PM > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: Aquarium heater > sedimentation? > > > > If they ship it by Ground, do they put it on dog sled > in the Winter? > > <g> I > > could see how it may cost more -- got to feed those > dogs! Ray

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 44587	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 11/15/2009
Subject: Re: Aquarium heater sedimentation?

I just checked your membership and it's set to "No Email", meaning web only, so I guess it's just a Yahoo Group glitch. I've seen previous info from Yahoo Groups that says when you change your status, it can take up to 48 hours to take full effect so try to tough it out and just delete everything as it comes in... or if you set up a rule to have it automatically deleted for now. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Dawn C. Sent: Sunday, November 15, 2009 7:04 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: Aquarium heater sedimentation? Lenny I am subscribed to web only and still getting everyones email? What do I need to do it is filling up my mailbox. Does it just take a moment? Thanks I am new. Dawn The Cleaner Way Cleaning Services Entreprenuer, Yoga Buff and Outdoor Lover www.thecleanerway.com (512)663-6200

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 44588	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 11/15/2009
Subject: Re: Aquarium heater sedimentation?

I'm sure you'll be *proud* of your new keyboard. ;-) Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Steve Szabo Sent: Sunday, November 15, 2009 7:41 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: Aquarium heater sedimentation? Lenny, When the cargo is lions, there is pride heat. I think I'll need to provide myself with a new keyboard. I know I hit all the right keys. \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Lenny V. aka GoldLenny Sent: Sunday, November 15, 2009 8:01 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: Aquarium heater sedimentation? "Pride heat"? Is that the kind of heat that's needed for shortened trips when you don't have to *provide* heat? Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Steve Szabo Sent: Sunday, November 15, 2009 5:25 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: Aquarium heater sedimentation? Batteries to provide electricity for the lights needed during the 6 months of darkness when the Aurora borealis does not provide enough light. They would also be needed to pride heat for any living animals in the same shipment. Geez, when you need to explain a joke, it takes all the fun out of it. \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of bill 1433 Sent: Sunday, November 15, 2009 6:11 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: Aquarium heater sedimentation? Now I got this part, it's the dogs with the batteries I'm having trouble with! Bill --- On Sun, 11/15/09, Amber Berglund <arberglund@...> wrote: > From: Amber Berglund <arberglund@...> > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: Aquarium heater sedimentation? > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Date: Sunday, November 15, 2009, 5:48 PM That only happens up north, > I'm lucky to still have about 6-7 hours of daylight each day through > the winter (I know, not much, but better than nothing), granted most > of the winter tends to be fairly overcast, but on those gorgeous clear > (cold, icy) days it's not so bad, just watch that black ice, LOL. > Also I don't get the discount on ground because I don't work for > ground, they run ground as a separate company. I end up paying about 5 > dollars more to send the same package ground as it wound to send it > fed ex 2nd day, and it'd take 10 days longer, LOL. > > Amber > > Steve Szabo wrote: > > > > Ray, > > > > Don't forget the batteries they need to carry for the > lights for the 6 > > months of darkness up there. > > > > \\Steve// > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On Behalf Of > > sevenspringss@... > > > <mailto:sevenspringss%40wmconnect.com> > > Sent: Sunday, November 15, 2009 5:09 PM > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: Aquarium heater > sedimentation? > > > > If they ship it by Ground, do they put it on dog sled > in the Winter? > > <g> I > > could see how it may cost more -- got to feed those > dogs! Ray

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 44589	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 11/15/2009
Subject: Re: Aquarium heater sedimentation?

Dawn, When you are on the list's web site, click on edit membership to ensure you are set for web only. Any other selection will mean that you will receive e-mail from the list, in one form or another. Yahoo is kind of funky in that when they make software updates, people's settings have a tendency to change. With Gmail, there is not much worry of filling up your mailbox. I've been using it for years, and I do not have 1GB used yet of the more than 7GB I am allotted. \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Dawn C. Sent: Sunday, November 15, 2009 8:04 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: Aquarium heater sedimentation? Lenny I am subscribed to web only and still getting everyones email? What do I need to do it is filling up my mailbox. Does it just take a moment? Thanks I am new. Dawn The Cleaner Way Cleaning Services Entreprenuer, Yoga Buff and Outdoor Lover www.thecleanerway.com (512)663-6200 -----Original Message----- From: "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@...> Date: Sun, 15 Nov 2009 18:59:00 To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com> Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: Aquarium heater sedimentation? I think we're having a Frick & Frack moment... or for modern times, Dumberer & Dumbererer.. LOL Finish reading the sentence... "... for the 6 months of darkness up there". Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Amber Berglund Sent: Sunday, November 15, 2009 5:13 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: Aquarium heater sedimentation? Got me, my dog doesn't have any batteries, but produces plenty of poop ;) LOL Perhaps someone was talking about robotic dogs? ;) Amber bill 1433 wrote: > > Now I got this part, > it's the dogs with the batteries I'm having trouble with! > > Bill > > --- On Sun, 11/15/09, Amber Berglund <arberglund@... > <mailto:arberglund%40gmail.com>> wrote: > > > From: Amber Berglund <arberglund@... > <mailto:arberglund%40gmail.com>> > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: Aquarium heater sedimentation? > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > Date: Sunday, November 15, 2009, 5:48 PM That only happens up north, > > I'm lucky to still have about 6-7 hours of daylight each day through > > the winter (I know, not much, but better than nothing), granted most > > of the winter tends to be fairly overcast, but on those gorgeous > > clear (cold, icy) days it's not so bad, just watch that black ice, > > LOL. > > Also I don't get the discount on ground because I don't work for > > ground, they run ground as a separate company. I end up paying about > > 5 dollars more to send the same package ground as it wound to send > > it fed ex 2nd day, and it'd take 10 days longer, LOL. > > > > Amber > > > > Steve Szabo wrote: > > > > > > Ray, > > > > > > Don't forget the batteries they need to carry for the > > lights for the 6 > > > months of darkness up there. > > > > > > \\Steve// > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On Behalf Of > > > sevenspringss@... > <mailto:sevenspringss%40wmconnect.com> > > > > > <mailto:sevenspringss%40wmconnect.com> > > > Sent: Sunday, November 15, 2009 5:09 PM > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: Aquarium heater > > sedimentation? > > > > > > If they ship it by Ground, do they put it on dog sled > > in the Winter? > > > <g> I > > > could see how it may cost more -- got to feed those > > dogs! Ray > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > > > ------------------------------------ > > > > > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when > > replying, Thank You. > > > > > 74/`7.88.><((((:>.74/`7.88.74/`7.8><((((:> > > 8.74/`7.8. , .74/`7..><((((:> > > > PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that > > is NOT important to > > > the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original > > message MODIFY the > > > SUBJECT > > > LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" > > <- > > > > > <:((((><.74/`7.88.74/`7.8<:((((><8.74/`7.8. > > , .74/`7..<:((((><74/`7.88. > > > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. > > > > > > If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead > > of unsubscribing, you > > > can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit > > My Membership" on the > > > home page. > > > > > > Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:aquaticlife-digest%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > <mailto:aquaticlife-digest%40yahoogroups.com> to > > receive the digest, which > > > includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email > > > > > > Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:aquaticlife-nomail%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > <mailto:aquaticlife-nomail%40yahoogroups.com> > > for the No E-Mail option > > > where > > > you will still be able to read messages on the group > > and post replies. > > > > > > Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:aquaticlife-normal%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > <mailto:aquaticlife-normal%40yahoogroups.com> to > > receive individual > > > e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > > > > > > > ------------------------------------ > > > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, > > Thank You. > > ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> > > ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> > > PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT > > important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original > > message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old > > subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. > > , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. > > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. > > > > If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of > > unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by clicking on > > "Edit My Membership" on the home page. > > > > Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:aquaticlife-digest%40yahoogroups.com> > > to receive the digest, which includes up to 25 posts at a time in a > > single email > > > > Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:aquaticlife-nomail%40yahoogroups.com> > > for the No E-Mail option where you will still be able to read > > messages on the group and post replies. > > > > Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:aquaticlife-normal%40yahoogroups.com> > > to receive individual e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > AquaticLife-fullfeatured@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife-fullfeatured%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > > ------------------------------------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the home page. Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com to receive the digest, which includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com for the No E-Mail option where you will still be able to read messages on the group and post replies. Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com to receive individual e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] ------------------------------------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the home page. Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com to receive the digest, which includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com for the No E-Mail option where you will still be able to read messages on the group and post replies. Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com to receive individual e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 44590	From: sevenspringss@wmconnect.com	Date: 11/15/2009
Subject: Re: Aquarium heater sedimentation?

You're trying to make an association between the batteries and the dogs -- wrong-o. The dogs and their Fed-Ex Iditarod driver will need a sled-mounted headlight as there's no alternator (or generator) provision. Ray [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 44591	From: sevenspringss@wmconnect.com	Date: 11/15/2009
Subject: Re: Aquarium heater sedimentation?

Could be just another shortened 'Net term, like "proly" (for "probably"). Got to keep up with the latest 'puter jargon <g>. Ray [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 44592	From: bill 1433	Date: 11/16/2009
Subject: Re: Aquarium heater sedimentation?

Now this response makes the most sense! On the other hand, not discounting the poor dogs themselves, I'm wondering why these folks aren't just using "Snowmobiles"? Ah, I have it! Maybe this mode is too advanced for this part of the tundra area. I understand that some areas as yet remain unexplored. \\Bill// --- On Mon, 11/16/09, sevenspringss@... <sevenspringss@...> wrote: > From: sevenspringss@... <sevenspringss@...> > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: Aquarium heater sedimentation? > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Date: Monday, November 16, 2009, 2:40 AM > You're trying to make an association > between the batteries and the dogs -- > wrong-o.  The dogs and their Fed-Ex Iditarod driver > will need a sled-mounted > headlight as there's no alternator (or generator) > provision.  Ray > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > ------------------------------------ > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when > replying, Thank You. > ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> > ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> > PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is > NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of > the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new > subject (was re: old subject)" <- > <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. > , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. > > If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of > unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by > clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the home page.  > > Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com > to receive the digest, which includes up to 25 posts at a > time in a single email > > Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com > for the No E-Mail option where you will still be able to > read messages on the group and post replies. > > Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com > to receive individual e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links > > >     AquaticLife-fullfeatured@yahoogroups.com > > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 44593	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 11/16/2009
Subject: Re: Aquarium heater sedimentation?

Don't ask me, we have neither sled dogs, nor any way to drive here for that matter. I've seen huskies, but never as sled dogs ;) LOL. Most people have them chained up in their yards, poor dogs IMO, need to run. Amber bill 1433 wrote: > > Now this response makes the most sense! > > On the other hand, not discounting the poor > dogs themselves, I'm wondering why these folks > aren't just using "Snowmobiles"? > > Ah, I have it! Maybe this mode is too advanced for this > part of the tundra area. I understand that some areas > as yet remain unexplored. > > \\Bill// > > --- On Mon, 11/16/09, sevenspringss@... > <mailto:sevenspringss%40wmconnect.com> <sevenspringss@... > <mailto:sevenspringss%40wmconnect.com>> wrote: > > > From: sevenspringss@... > <mailto:sevenspringss%40wmconnect.com> <sevenspringss@... > <mailto:sevenspringss%40wmconnect.com>> > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: Aquarium heater sedimentation? > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > Date: Monday, November 16, 2009, 2:40 AM > > You're trying to make an association > > between the batteries and the dogs -- > > wrong-o. The dogs and their Fed-Ex Iditarod driver > > will need a sled-mounted > > headlight as there's no alternator (or generator) > > provision. Ray > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > > > > > ------------------------------------ > > > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when > > replying, Thank You. > > ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> > > ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> > > PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is > > NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of > > the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new > > subject (was re: old subject)" <- > > <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. > > , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. > > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. > > > > If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of > > unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by > > clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the home page. > > > > Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:aquaticlife-digest%40yahoogroups.com> > > to receive the digest, which includes up to 25 posts at a > > time in a single email > > > > Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:aquaticlife-nomail%40yahoogroups.com> > > for the No E-Mail option where you will still be able to > > read messages on the group and post replies. > > > > Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:aquaticlife-normal%40yahoogroups.com> > > to receive individual e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > AquaticLife-fullfeatured@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife-fullfeatured%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 44594	From: sevenspringss@wmconnect.com	Date: 11/16/2009
Subject: Re: Aquarium heater sedimentation?

Now, we know this is all in fun. . . . . MUSH, on you Huskies! <g>, Ray [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 44595	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 11/16/2009
Subject: Re: Aquarium heater sedimentation?

Well, next time you're making a delivery, park your truck a block or so away, unlock the gate and go, "NAH, NAH, NAH, NAH, NAHHHHHH!!!" at them and take off running. They'll get them a good run... until you reach your truck or until you run out of speed.... which ever comes first. ;-) And if you do make it to your truck, they'll continue to get a good run as they chase your truck down the street. As far as that old saying about "Why do dogs chase cars? What would they do if they caught one?" http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8MtSEAJa-V0 Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Amber Berglund Sent: Monday, November 16, 2009 9:13 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: Aquarium heater sedimentation? Don't ask me, we have neither sled dogs, nor any way to drive here for that matter. I've seen huskies, but never as sled dogs ;) LOL. Most people have them chained up in their yards, poor dogs IMO, need to run. Amber bill 1433 wrote: > > Now this response makes the most sense! > > On the other hand, not discounting the poor dogs themselves, I'm > wondering why these folks aren't just using "Snowmobiles"? > > Ah, I have it! Maybe this mode is too advanced for this part of the > tundra area. I understand that some areas as yet remain unexplored. > > \\Bill// > > --- On Mon, 11/16/09, sevenspringss@... > <mailto:sevenspringss%40wmconnect.com> <sevenspringss@... > <mailto:sevenspringss%40wmconnect.com>> wrote: > > > From: sevenspringss@... > <mailto:sevenspringss%40wmconnect.com> <sevenspringss@... > <mailto:sevenspringss%40wmconnect.com>> > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: Aquarium heater sedimentation? > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > Date: Monday, November 16, 2009, 2:40 AM You're trying to make an > > association between the batteries and the dogs -- wrong-o. The dogs > > and their Fed-Ex Iditarod driver will need a sled-mounted headlight > > as there's no alternator (or generator) provision. Ray

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 44596	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 11/16/2009
Subject: Re: strong odor - reset

I'm not sure this provides any enlightenment to your previous post... at least nothing is jumping out at me. My usual advice is... since the water got fouled over a long period of time, it needs to be returned back to good condition over a period of time to allow the fish/critters to slowly acclimate back to clean water. They actually get acclimated to the funky water and if you put them into clean water with vast differences in water chemistry, it will cause osmotic shock/stress to them. Of course, the foul smell is likely being caused by anaerobic bacterial activity which release various foul smelling gases. Obviously, it's best to keep your filters running and as much surface agitation as possible to outgas these gases, which is why you can smell them and why you can smell the funky mud on the anchor but you don't smell it when it's not disturbed... but in the case of our tanks, it's best to disturb these anaerobic patches often so they do not form in the first place. Just keep up with more frequent PWC's, since weekly isn't fixing things and slowly clean one decoration at a time, every couple of days and within a week or two, things should get back to normal. Also, check inside the decoration and you might have to enlarge any drain holes to get the sludge out of them. Most decorations, if hollow, have holes for water to fill them so they'll sink and the water inside decorations will get really foul and support anaerobic bacterial growth. If left alone, they usually cause no problems but if you start moving them or lift them out the water, this foul water could leak back into the tank. Maybe place them in a bowl as you lift them out the water so any funky water leaks into the bowl and not back into the tank. Do a PWC after each decoration cleaning. If you have a master test kit, posting your tap water 48 hour baseline test results and your tank results (and a weekly log of them, if you have one) will also help us to possibly see something. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of erikaandnewton Sent: Saturday, November 14, 2009 12:18 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] strong odor - reset i'm going to try this again. i think in the process of trying to keep it short, i must have miscommunicated something: history of the frogs: set up @ old house: half full 33 gallon, assorted plants i couldnt keep alive, zoo med 501 filter(mini external canister.) various levels of guppies and shrimp. substrate was crushed granite. tank was set up from june 2006 to february 2009. no problems with tank february 2009 moved 33gal to parents house: brought most of the water and gravel siphonings with me, changed substrate to flourite in hopes it would help the plants and i liked the more natural color. tank was set up with no filter, performed water changes evey 1-3 weeks (probably closer to every 3 weeks, i hate the siphon and bucket method i needed to use there) occupants of tank still frogs guppies plants and shrimp. again no problems with the tank sept 2009- i move out. can only make a water change once during this time when i go to get the tank (based on phone records and stuff, probably around october 28th) it was gross, all the decorations were covered in black stuff and it reeked like marsh muck october 28th pickup occupants of tank- rinsed the gravel really really well (yes i know its not reccomended to do it that way, but its no different than stating up a new tank and i cant imagine what ever was causing the stench was GOOD for the frogs) toyed with the idea of leaving the black goo on the decorations, but since it could have been the source of the stench i opted to get rid of it. it also had this weird almost oily feel to it (no not slimey, oily) about a week ago i put the filter on it because i finally found all the parts. a few days ago the smell i thought would be gone is now back so, all my parameters are normal, i'm doing water changes every week,the water has the filter going. its at least 37 gallons of water for 2 itty bitty frogs and maybe 6 guppies so i know the tank isn't over loaded even with it being essentially a new tank. In my 20 years of keeping fish tanks (and yes a good amount of them doing it wrong) I have NEVER smelled anything like this (except when we pull the anchor up out of the inland bay and the mud is stuck to it). could flourite cause problems? I've never used it before. did my "helpful" father do something totally screwy to the original tank and i need to replace the decorations and the gravel? erika newark de usa ------------------------------------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the home page. Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com to receive the digest, which includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com for the No E-Mail option where you will still be able to read messages on the group and post replies. Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com to receive individual e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 44597	From: erikaandnewton	Date: 11/16/2009
Subject: Re: strong odor - reset

>How many live plants do you have in the tank? Is it heavily planted or just lightly planted in the flourite?> 3 anubias 2 wendetti some horn wort a few small java ferns >> You need to check the ammonia, nitrite, and nitrates for us so we can > tell you for sure, but I'm almost positive that it should be in a new > cycle with all the heavy cleaning you did. You say parameters are > normal, is that the ammonia, nitrite and nitrates? By normal do you mean > 0 for ammonia, 0 for nitrite, and a low number for nitrates? That would > be "normal" for an already cycled tank, but a cycling tank should show > numbers in the ammonia, nitrite, and eventually nitrates at the end of > the cycle. ammonia-0 nitrite-0 nitrate-about 10ppm > > Does the filter have a cartridge or something you rinse off when you do your water changes? (I didn't see an answer to this before, so I'm re-asking, sorry if you answered and I missed it). yes it does erika newark de usa

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 44598	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 11/16/2009
Subject: Re: strong odor - reset

Hmm, weird.. According to your test results your tank is not cycling, guess you didn't over rinse your gravel too badly (that's a good thing). How often do you rinse out your filter cartridge? I'd have to say that you could easily increase your plants in that 75 gallon, since it has about the same footprint as my 55 gallons, and I have way more plants than that in my planted 55 gallon tanks. It's a good thing you have hornwort though (it uses a lot of nitrates up, so it will help keep your nitrates lower). I don't suggest duckweed unless you have something that eats it ;) LOL (darn invasive species of plant). Anacharis is also a good nitrate user/easy to grow plant, can be left floating or you can plant it singly into the gravel (doesn't grow a lot of roots when left floating, not sure about when planted in the substrate). About all I can suggest is upping your water changes to twice a week and see if that helps with the smelly water, just don't change it too fast or you can shock your fish (I think Ray said that already). Amber erikaandnewton wrote: > > > > >How many live plants do you have in the tank? Is it heavily planted > or just lightly planted in the flourite?> > 3 anubias 2 wendetti some horn wort a few small java ferns > > >> You need to check the ammonia, nitrite, and nitrates for us so we > can > tell you for sure, but I'm almost positive that it should be in > a new > cycle with all the heavy cleaning you did. You say parameters > are > normal, is that the ammonia, nitrite and nitrates? By normal do > you mean > 0 for ammonia, 0 for nitrite, and a low number for > nitrates? That would > be "normal" for an already cycled tank, but a > cycling tank should show > numbers in the ammonia, nitrite, and > eventually nitrates at the end of > the cycle. > > ammonia-0 > nitrite-0 > nitrate-about 10ppm > > > > Does the filter have a cartridge or something you rinse off when you > do your water changes? (I didn't see an answer to this before, so I'm > re-asking, sorry if you answered and I missed it). > > yes it does > > erika newark de usa > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 44599	From: erikaandnewton	Date: 11/18/2009
Subject: Re: strong odor - reset

<<Hmm, weird.. According to your test results your tank is not cycling, guess you didn't over rinse your gravel too badly (that's a good thing).>> nope, the reason the problem arose in this tank also is because i didn't rinse it well enough. turns out one big contributing factor is the flourite. it is really dusty and once the layer of dust settled in the old tank it formed the perfect breeding ground for the anerobic bacteria. when i brought the gravel into the new tank i brought some of the bacteria over. because of the plants and things in the tank there were spots where i couldn't get to the bacteria and break up the dust layer. Thats why DESPITE the filtration and water changes i ended up with issues. if i had started over with new gravel i would have been fine. LFS also said my gravel bed might be too thick, which is possible since i did't feel like storing gravel around and just added the flourite to the gravel i had originally planned for the 75. figured it would be better for the plants, guess not;-) << How often do you rinse out your filter cartridge?>> you mean normally? << I'd have to say that you could easily increase your plants in that 75 gallon, since it has about the same footprint as my 55 gallons, and I have way more plants than that in my planted 55 gallon tanks. It's a good thing you have hornwort though (it uses a lot of nitrates up, so it will help keep your nitrates lower).>> i plan on having tons of plants in it, but i'll add them slowly so if i kill them i don't go broke all at once <<I don't suggest duckweed unless you have something that eats it ;) LOL (darn invasive species of plant).>> oh yeah learned the hard way with the duck weed in my old tank. i still have to watch, a few latched on the some of the stuff from the old tank, i scoop it out as soon as i see it! definitely don't want THAT again <<Anacharis is also a good nitrate user/easy to grow plant, can be left floating or you can plant it singly into the gravel (doesn't grow a lot of roots when left floating, not sure about when planted in the substrate).>> yeah...haven't been able to keep it alive <<About all I can suggest is upping your water changes to twice a week and see if that helps with the smelly water, just don't change it too fast or you can shock your fish (I think Ray said that already).>> i think i'll be good from here LFS owner gave me some tips and ideas, which have already helped erika newark de usa >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 44600	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 11/18/2009
Subject: Re: strong odor - reset

Be ware LFS tips, hopefully they weren't just trying to sell you more products, most of the time LFS's do not have your issue at heart and are only really trying to sell you more stuff. I know mine does, and a lot of others. But hopefully you have a reliable LFS. I'm sure someone is going to ask what those tips where too ;) Since I brought it up now I can't help it, LOL. C'mon share with the rest of the class ;) hehe Amber erikaandnewton wrote: > > > > <<Hmm, weird.. According to your test results your tank is not > cycling, guess you didn't over rinse your gravel too badly (that's a > good thing).>> > > nope, the reason the problem arose in this tank also is because i > didn't rinse it well enough. turns out one big contributing factor is > the flourite. it is really dusty and once the layer of dust settled in > the old tank it formed the perfect breeding ground for the anerobic > bacteria. when i brought the gravel into the new tank i brought some > of the bacteria over. because of the plants and things in the tank > there were spots where i couldn't get to the bacteria and break up the > dust layer. Thats why DESPITE the filtration and water changes i ended > up with issues. if i had started over with new gravel i would have > been fine. LFS also said my gravel bed might be too thick, which is > possible since i did't feel like storing gravel around and just added > the flourite to the gravel i had originally planned for the 75. > figured it would be better for the plants, guess not;-) > > << How often do you rinse out your filter cartridge?>> > > you mean normally? > > << I'd have to say that you could easily increase your plants in that > 75 gallon, since it has about the same footprint as my 55 gallons, and > I have way more plants than that in my planted 55 gallon tanks. It's a > good thing you have hornwort though (it uses a lot of nitrates up, so > it will help keep your nitrates lower).>> > > i plan on having tons of plants in it, but i'll add them slowly so if > i kill them i don't go broke all at once > > <<I don't suggest duckweed unless you have something that eats it ;) > LOL (darn invasive species of plant).>> > > oh yeah learned the hard way with the duck weed in my old tank. i > still have to watch, a few latched on the some of the stuff from the > old tank, i scoop it out as soon as i see it! definitely don't want > THAT again > > <<Anacharis is also a good nitrate user/easy to grow plant, can be > left floating or you can plant it singly into the gravel (doesn't grow > a lot of roots when left floating, not sure about when planted in the > substrate).>> > > yeah...haven't been able to keep it alive > > <<About all I can suggest is upping your water changes to twice a week > and see if that helps with the smelly water, just don't change it too > fast or you can shock your fish (I think Ray said that already).>> > > i think i'll be good from here LFS owner gave me some tips and ideas, > which have already helped > > erika newark de usa > > > > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 44601	From: kuradi8	Date: 11/18/2009
Subject: Crazy Filter Question

I'm sure the answer is "It really doesn't matter" but I'll ask anyway. I recently added a 2nd HOB filter to my 55g. I figure I'll change 2 of the 4 cartridges on the 1st and the other 2 on the 15th. Here's my crazy question: Should I change both in one, then both in the other? Or one from each, then the other from each? ~Kai

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 44602	From: sevenspringss@wmconnect.com	Date: 11/18/2009
Subject: Re: Crazy Filter Question

Kai, As "both in one" would constitute one filter medium of each kind (a mainly physical/particle removing medium and a mainly aerobic bacteria-growing medium having some grungy stuff caught in it), this would be your chance to clean both types of your filter media twice a month -- in alternating filters -- while still retaining the benefits of each type of media at all times. I would certainly not "change" them though, until they were beyond use, as they can be cleaned many times before changing. Ray [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 44603	From: kuradi8	Date: 11/18/2009
Subject: Re: Crazy Filter Question

"one filter medium of each kind" Sorry, I didn't make myself clear. There are two blue disposable cartridges in each filter. Those are the cartridges I'm asking about. And for whatever reason, they don't last much longer than one month in my tank. Rinsing and putting them back leads to ripping and "yuck." There are also two gray hard-spongy ones that say "DO NOT REPLACE" that I know need to be rinsed occasionally. I have no intention of replacing those unless they (unlikely) suffer a catastrophic failure. ~Kai > Ray wrote: > > Kai, As "both in one" would constitute one filter medium of each kind (a > mainly physical/particle removing medium and a mainly aerobic > bacteria-growing medium having some grungy stuff caught in it), this would be your chance > to clean both types of your filter media twice a month -- in alternating > filters -- while still retaining the benefits of each type of media at all > times. I would certainly not "change" them though, until they were beyond use, > as they can be cleaned many times before changing. Ray > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 44604	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 11/18/2009
Subject: Re: Crazy Filter Question

Or the more frugal answer.... why change them? Why not just clean two or more cartridges every week and keep your money? For one of my HOB's a Marineland Bio-Wheel 200, which has slots for two cartridges, I'll take the one in the back and pull it out, then move the one in the front to the back slot and turn the filter back on. Then clean the one from the back, which would be the dirtiest one and clean it well, even including rinsing under tap water if needed. I still have the other cartridge and the Bio-Wheel which stay fully *cycled*, as well as my other filter system so there is no issue with disrupting the nitrogen cycle. The one in the back, or the one that has the dirty water flowing through it first, is the one that will get the most clogged up so it should be the one that gets cleaned good and then moved to the front, as the last cartridge for water to flow through before returning to the tank. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of kuradi8 Sent: Wednesday, November 18, 2009 11:44 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Crazy Filter Question I'm sure the answer is "It really doesn't matter" but I'll ask anyway. I recently added a 2nd HOB filter to my 55g. I figure I'll change 2 of the 4 cartridges on the 1st and the other 2 on the 15th. Here's my crazy question: Should I change both in one, then both in the other? Or one from each, then the other from each? ~Kai -------

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 44605	From: Dora Smith	Date: 11/18/2009
Subject: Re: Crazy Filter Question

Don't follow the question. But if you have more than one piece of filter media, never change them both at once. Yours, Dora Smith Austin, TX tiggernut24@... ----- Original Message ----- From: "kuradi8" <kuradi8@...> To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Wednesday, November 18, 2009 11:44 AM Subject: [AquaticLife] Crazy Filter Question I'm sure the answer is "It really doesn't matter" but I'll ask anyway. I recently added a 2nd HOB filter to my 55g. I figure I'll change 2 of the 4 cartridges on the 1st and the other 2 on the 15th. Here's my crazy question: Should I change both in one, then both in the other? Or one from each, then the other from each? ~Kai ------------------------------------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the home page. Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com to receive the digest, which includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com for the No E-Mail option where you will still be able to read messages on the group and post replies. Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com to receive individual e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 44606	From: bill 1433	Date: 11/18/2009
Subject: Re: Crazy Filter Question

Hi Kai, I had this same problem too, but if you try rising the filter plate under a good stream of water it should come off. For the stubborn stuff, if you "brush" lightly with a small hand or even old toothbrush, most of it will come off allowing for many months of use. I usually get 3 or 4 months out of mine. If they are very dirty perhaps your feeding a bit much? I always turn off all filters in a tank at feeding time. This allows the top or mid tank swimmers,as well as the bottom dwellers like Cory cats to get their share before the power filters do. Bill --- On Wed, 11/18/09, kuradi8 <kuradi8@...> wrote: > From: kuradi8 <kuradi8@...> > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Crazy Filter Question > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Date: Wednesday, November 18, 2009, 1:49 PM > "one filter medium of each kind" > > Sorry, I didn't make myself clear.  There are two blue > disposable cartridges in each filter.  Those are the > cartridges I'm asking about.  And for whatever reason, > they don't last much longer than one month in my tank.  > Rinsing and putting them back leads to ripping and "yuck." > > There are also two gray hard-spongy ones that say "DO NOT > REPLACE" that I know need to be rinsed occasionally.  I > have no intention of replacing those unless they (unlikely) > suffer a catastrophic failure. > ~Kai > > > > > Ray wrote: > > > > Kai,  As "both in one" would constitute one > filter medium of each kind (a > > mainly physical/particle removing medium and a mainly > aerobic > > bacteria-growing medium having some grungy stuff > caught in it), this would be your chance > > to clean both types of your filter media twice a month > -- in alternating > > filters -- while still retaining the benefits of each > type of media at all > > times.  I would certainly not "change" them > though, until they were beyond use, > > as they can be cleaned many times before > changing.  Ray > > > > > > > > > ------------------------------------ > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when > replying, Thank You. > ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> > ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> > PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is > NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of > the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new > subject (was re: old subject)" <- > <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. > , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. > > If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of > unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by > clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the home page.  > > Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com > to receive the digest, which includes up to 25 posts at a > time in a single email > > Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com > for the No E-Mail option where you will still be able to > read messages on the group and post replies. > > Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com > to receive individual e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links > > >     AquaticLife-fullfeatured@yahoogroups.com > > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 44607	From: sevenspringss@wmconnect.com	Date: 11/18/2009
Subject: Re: Crazy Filter Question

Alright, then you apparently have no alternative other than to replace the blue filter media. I would suggest changing both blue media in only one filter each time, alternating with changing these blue filter mediums in the other filter every two weeks as you feel is necessary; the frequency, depending on your bioload, but I'm being consistent with your schedule here. In this way, you will be retaining all of the older two blue medium's in one filter for its continued action and full biological filtration while employing both completely new and fully working blue media in the other filter. I would also alternate the cleaning of the gray filter mediums in each of the two filters, every two weeks (cleaning only one each time), using only aquarium water of course. Ray [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 44608	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 11/18/2009
Subject: Re: Crazy Filter Question

What brand and model filter system is this? I just want to make sure I never buy one... of course, I'm sure I'd come up with a DIY way of overcoming their money grabbing filter cartridge SCAM. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of kuradi8 Sent: Wednesday, November 18, 2009 12:50 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Crazy Filter Question "one filter medium of each kind" Sorry, I didn't make myself clear. There are two blue disposable cartridges in each filter. Those are the cartridges I'm asking about. And for whatever reason, they don't last much longer than one month in my tank. Rinsing and putting them back leads to ripping and "yuck." There are also two gray hard-spongy ones that say "DO NOT REPLACE" that I know need to be rinsed occasionally. I have no intention of replacing those unless they (unlikely) suffer a catastrophic failure. ~Kai > Ray wrote: > > Kai, As "both in one" would constitute one filter medium of each kind > (a mainly physical/particle removing medium and a mainly aerobic > bacteria-growing medium having some grungy stuff caught in it), this > would be your chance to clean both types of your filter media twice a > month -- in alternating filters -- while still retaining the benefits > of each type of media at all times. I would certainly not "change" > them though, until they were beyond use, as they can be cleaned many > times before changing. Ray > > ------------------------------------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. If you do not w

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 44609	From: Deenerz@aol.com	Date: 11/18/2009
Subject: Re: Crazy Filter Question

Hi Lenny, The older marineland filters, I think it was the 400 and the 280 had an alternative filter cartridge that was reuseable. It did not come with the filters but you could buy them and they basically clam shelled open and closed and you could put your own filter media in them. Filter floss at the fabric store or Wallyworld makes for extremely cheap filtration. Do they make these reusable filters for the new marineland filters? As I am mostly using sponge filters these days I do not use my 400 or my 170 Penguins which also had these reuseable filters. -Mike -----Original Message----- From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@...> To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Wed, Nov 18, 2009 11:12 am Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Crazy Filter Question   Or the more frugal answer.... why change them? Why not just clean two or more cartridges every week and keep your money? For one of my HOB's a Marineland Bio-Wheel 200, which has slots for two cartridges, I'll take the one in the back and pull it out, then move the one in the front to the back slot and turn the filter back on. Then clean the one from the back, which would be the dirtiest one and clean it well, even including rinsing under tap water if needed. I still have the other cartridge and the Bio-Wheel which stay fully *cycled*, as well as my other filter system so there is no issue with disrupting the nitrogen cycle. The one in the back, or the one that has the dirty water flowing through it first, is the one that will get the most clogged up so it should be the one that gets cleaned good and then moved to the front, as the last cartridge for water to flow through before returning to the tank. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of kuradi8 Sent: Wednesday, November 18, 2009 11:44 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Crazy Filter Question I'm sure the answer is "It really doesn't matter" but I'll ask anyway. I recently added a 2nd HOB filter to my 55g. I figure I'll change 2 of the 4 cartridges on the 1st and the other 2 on the 15th. Here's my crazy question: Should I change both in one, then both in the other? Or one from each, then the other from each? ~Kai -------

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 44610	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 11/18/2009
Subject: Re: Crazy Filter Question

Well, I haven't bought any filter cartridges for my Marineland Bio-Wheel 200 since it's only 4-5 years old and I'm still using the original cartridges. It DID NOT clam-shell open so I had to do my own box-cutter surgery on it to remove the old carbon and added more of the blue-white polypad media to increase the mechanical and biological filtration of the cartridge. I do have some of the clam-shell type cartridges for one of my smaller Whisper filters that have the black plastic clam-shell frame and a white polypad-type bag that can be used just as polypad or filled with carbon. I do not use carbon except for the rare instance of needing to remove meds from any of my tanks. I do use Purigen in my 65G Goldfish tank to aid in removal of DOC's even though I do weekly maintenance on the tank, even two fancy goldfish and a 3" Clown Pleco in a 65G is a LOT of bioload for the tank. I haven't used the Purigen for removal of meds yet since I'm not sure if meds will be cleaned out of the Purigen when I use the 50% bleach solution to recharge it each time it gets dirty enough to be cleaned/recharged. I guess they will but I still have a quart sized box of carbon that I got when I adopted an overstocked 10G tank right before Katrina so I just some of it for med removal. Back to the goldfish.... I think for the immediate future, I'll still stick with my recommendations in my Goldfish Care sheet of having at least a 55G tank for two fancy goldfish as the minimum size (although sometimes I feel that isn't enough) but even with that, as the goldfish reach full size, that 55G tank will need weekly (or more) tank maintenance. It's a shame there are still so many reputable websites suggesting only 10G per goldfish out there. I just don't know how they can hope to maintain their good reputation doing this. It simply will not work... maybe when the goldfish are juveniles but since they reach adult size in 1-3 years and live for 10-15+ years (fancy goldfish), the owners will need the larger tank for the majority of the fish's life, so why not just start off with the right sized tank. Nobody buys a baby horse, to keep in their 1 bedroom apartment with a small patio, with the intention of buying a country home or ranch as the baby horse gets bigger.... do they? Sorry for my rant... lol. I just got done doing tank maintenance and with all the poop I clean out on a weekly basis, I don't know how folks do it with smaller tanks for goldfish. The water must be like a cesspool if they wait a week between doing PWC's. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Deenerz@... Sent: Wednesday, November 18, 2009 4:12 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Crazy Filter Question Hi Lenny, The older marineland filters, I think it was the 400 and the 280 had an alternative filter cartridge that was reuseable. It did not come with the filters but you could buy them and they basically clam shelled open and closed and you could put your own filter media in them. Filter floss at the fabric store or Wallyworld makes for extremely cheap filtration. Do they make these reusable filters for the new marineland filters? As I am mostly using sponge filters these days I do not use my 400 or my 170 Penguins which also had these reuseable filters. -Mike -----Original Message----- From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@...> To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Wed, Nov 18, 2009 11:12 am Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Crazy Filter Question   Or the more frugal answer.... why change them? Why not just clean two or more cartridges every week and keep your money? For one of my HOB's a Marineland Bio-Wheel 200, which has slots for two cartridges, I'll take the one in the back and pull it out, then move the one in the front to the back slot and turn the filter back on. Then clean the one from the back, which would be the dirtiest one and clean it well, even including rinsing under tap water if needed. I still have the other cartridge and the Bio-Wheel which stay fully *cycled*, as well as my other filter system so there is no issue with disrupting the nitrogen cycle. The one in the back, or the one that has the dirty water flowing through it first, is the one that will get the most clogged up so it should be the one that gets cleaned good and then moved to the front, as the last cartridge for water to flow through before returning to the tank. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of kuradi8 Sent: Wednesday, November 18, 2009 11:44 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Crazy Filter Question I'm sure the answer is "It really doesn't matter" but I'll ask anyway. I recently added a 2nd HOB filter to my 55g. I figure I'll change 2 of the 4 cartridges on the 1st and the other 2 on the 15th. Here's my crazy question: Should I change both in one, then both in the other? Or one from each, then the other from each? ~Kai

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 44611	From: erikaandnewton	Date: 11/18/2009
Subject: Re: strong odor - reset

nope didn't try to sell me anything. i haven't had a lfs for years, new house new store, i love it;-) matter of fact when i went in looking for starters he told me to go to lowes cause theyre cheaper there. erika newark de usa --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, Amber Berglund <arberglund@...> wrote: > > Be ware LFS tips, hopefully they weren't just trying to sell you more > products, most of the time LFS's do not have your issue at heart and are > only really trying to sell you more stuff. I know mine does, and a lot > of others. But hopefully you have a reliable LFS. I'm sure someone is > going to ask what those tips where too ;) Since I brought it up now I > can't help it, LOL. C'mon share with the rest of the class ;) hehe > > Amber > > erikaandnewton wrote: > > > > > > > > <<Hmm, weird.. According to your test results your tank is not > > cycling, guess you didn't over rinse your gravel too badly (that's a > > good thing).>> > > > > nope, the reason the problem arose in this tank also is because i > > didn't rinse it well enough. turns out one big contributing factor is > > the flourite. it is really dusty and once the layer of dust settled in > > the old tank it formed the perfect breeding ground for the anerobic > > bacteria. when i brought the gravel into the new tank i brought some > > of the bacteria over. because of the plants and things in the tank > > there were spots where i couldn't get to the bacteria and break up the > > dust layer. Thats why DESPITE the filtration and water changes i ended > > up with issues. if i had started over with new gravel i would have > > been fine. LFS also said my gravel bed might be too thick, which is > > possible since i did't feel like storing gravel around and just added > > the flourite to the gravel i had originally planned for the 75. > > figured it would be better for the plants, guess not;-) > > > > << How often do you rinse out your filter cartridge?>> > > > > you mean normally? > > > > << I'd have to say that you could easily increase your plants in that > > 75 gallon, since it has about the same footprint as my 55 gallons, and > > I have way more plants than that in my planted 55 gallon tanks. It's a > > good thing you have hornwort though (it uses a lot of nitrates up, so > > it will help keep your nitrates lower).>> > > > > i plan on having tons of plants in it, but i'll add them slowly so if > > i kill them i don't go broke all at once > > > > <<I don't suggest duckweed unless you have something that eats it ;) > > LOL (darn invasive species of plant).>> > > > > oh yeah learned the hard way with the duck weed in my old tank. i > > still have to watch, a few latched on the some of the stuff from the > > old tank, i scoop it out as soon as i see it! definitely don't want > > THAT again > > > > <<Anacharis is also a good nitrate user/easy to grow plant, can be > > left floating or you can plant it singly into the gravel (doesn't grow > > a lot of roots when left floating, not sure about when planted in the > > substrate).>> > > > > yeah...haven't been able to keep it alive > > > > <<About all I can suggest is upping your water changes to twice a week > > and see if that helps with the smelly water, just don't change it too > > fast or you can shock your fish (I think Ray said that already).>> > > > > i think i'll be good from here LFS owner gave me some tips and ideas, > > which have already helped > > > > erika newark de usa > > > > > > > > > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 44612	From: kuradi8	Date: 11/19/2009
Subject: Re: Crazy Filter Question

Thanks, Ray! This was the answer I was looking for. I will replace both blue cartridges in each filter on an alternating basis (instead of alternating one from each.) And I will rinse out the gray ones (with aquarium water, as I have always done) also on an alternating basis. ~Kai > Ray wrote: > > Alright, then you apparently have no alternative other than to replace the blue filter media. I would suggest changing both blue media in only one filter each time, alternating with changing these blue filter mediums in the other filter every two weeks as you feel is necessary; the frequency, depending on your bioload, but I'm being consistent with your schedule here. In this way, you will be retaining all of the older two blue medium's in one filter for its continued action and full biological filtration while employing both completely new and fully working blue media in the other filter. I would also alternate the cleaning of the gray filter mediums in each of the two filters, every two weeks (cleaning only one each time), using only aquarium water of course. > Ray >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 44613	From: gailsugarpants	Date: 11/19/2009
Subject: Severum Behavior - update

Well, my Severum is well back to normal. No more neurotic behavior, maybe it did have to do with his girlfriend being a half breed? lol -gail

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 44614	From: gailsugarpants	Date: 11/19/2009
Subject: Peacock with a clouded eye -update

I have concluded that the white on his eye is in fact a scratch. He gets too rowdy sometimes. Thanks for all your imput. -gail

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 44615	From: CherylE	Date: 11/20/2009
Subject: Babies

I noticed a baby fish in my tank a few days ago and since then I have seen several more, at least four. They are definitely Platys. I have two female adult Mickey Mouse Platys and some guppies, neon tetras, head & tail light tetras, zebra danios, a blue gourami, a bristlenose pleco and a spotted corey. It looks like they might be just big enough to survive now, the other fish seem to leave them alone. It was quite a shock since my Platys are females and I have had them for about 6 weeks, one or both must have been pregnant when I bought them. Anyway, they are so cute, I will try and post pictures later when I get home from work. Cheryl from Seattle

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 44616	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 11/20/2009
Subject: Re: Babies

I have heard a rumor that platy's can change gender, I'm not sure if it's true or not though. Also most fish don't eat platy's I swear they are the "throw backs" of freshwater fish, they must taste icky ;) LOL. Amber CherylE wrote: > > I noticed a baby fish in my tank a few days ago and since then I have > seen several more, at least four. They are definitely Platys. I have > two female adult Mickey Mouse Platys and some guppies, neon tetras, > head & tail light tetras, zebra danios, a blue gourami, a bristlenose > pleco and a spotted corey. It looks like they might be just big enough > to survive now, the other fish seem to leave them alone. It was quite > a shock since my Platys are females and I have had them for about 6 > weeks, one or both must have been pregnant when I bought them. Anyway, > they are so cute, I will try and post pictures later when I get home > from work. > > Cheryl from Seattle > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 44617	From: CherylE	Date: 11/20/2009
Subject: Re: Babies

I don't think they have changed genders, they still look like girls. I think the gestation period is around 28 days and I got them about 5 weeks ago, the babies are probably a week or so old, I'm not sure what to do if they continue having babies, I know that my goldfish in my pond have babies every year but the racoons keeps them thinned out. I guess I could try and give them to the fish store if I get too many. I am surprised that my guppies haven't had babies yet, or at least any that I have seen, I have had them about 6 weeks, two males and three females. I guess I should be happy. Cheryl --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, Amber Berglund <arberglund@...> wrote: > > I have heard a rumor that platy's can change gender, I'm not sure if > it's true or not though. > Also most fish don't eat platy's I swear they are the "throw backs" of > freshwater fish, they must taste icky ;) LOL. > > Amber > > CherylE wrote: > > > > I noticed a baby fish in my tank a few days ago and since then I have > > seen several more, at least four. They are definitely Platys. I have > > two female adult Mickey Mouse Platys and some guppies, neon tetras, > > head & tail light tetras, zebra danios, a blue gourami, a bristlenose > > pleco and a spotted corey. It looks like they might be just big enough > > to survive now, the other fish seem to leave them alone. It was quite > > a shock since my Platys are females and I have had them for about 6 > > weeks, one or both must have been pregnant when I bought them. Anyway, > > they are so cute, I will try and post pictures later when I get home > > from work. > > > > Cheryl from Seattle > > > > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 44618	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 11/20/2009
Subject: Re: Babies

Cheryl, I do not want to burst your bubble, but, female platys along with some other livebearers, can store sperm to have a many as 6 broods before seeing another male. As for the gender change mentioned by Amber, I have not seen it reported in the literature. This tale may have developed because the females, as noted above, can drop as many as six broods from one impregnation of sperm. \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of CherylE Sent: Friday, November 20, 2009 8:31 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Babies I don't think they have changed genders, they still look like girls. I think the gestation period is around 28 days and I got them about 5 weeks ago, the babies are probably a week or so old, I'm not sure what to do if they continue having babies, I know that my goldfish in my pond have babies every year but the racoons keeps them thinned out. I guess I could try and give them to the fish store if I get too many. I am surprised that my guppies haven't had babies yet, or at least any that I have seen, I have had them about 6 weeks, two males and three females. I guess I should be happy. Cheryl --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, Amber Berglund <arberglund@...> wrote: > > I have heard a rumor that platy's can change gender, I'm not sure if > it's true or not though. > Also most fish don't eat platy's I swear they are the "throw backs" of > freshwater fish, they must taste icky ;) LOL. > > Amber > > CherylE wrote: > > > > I noticed a baby fish in my tank a few days ago and since then I have > > seen several more, at least four. They are definitely Platys. I have > > two female adult Mickey Mouse Platys and some guppies, neon tetras, > > head & tail light tetras, zebra danios, a blue gourami, a bristlenose > > pleco and a spotted corey. It looks like they might be just big enough > > to survive now, the other fish seem to leave them alone. It was quite > > a shock since my Platys are females and I have had them for about 6 > > weeks, one or both must have been pregnant when I bought them. Anyway, > > they are so cute, I will try and post pictures later when I get home > > from work. > > > > Cheryl from Seattle > > > > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 44619	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 11/20/2009
Subject: Exotic fish, tropical reefs flourish at Rhinelander's Foster and Smi

http://newsofthenorth.net/article/Economy/Business/Exotic_fish_tropical_reef s_flourish_at_Rhinelanders_Foster_and_Smith/29485 http://tinyurl.com/y9psf7n Exotic fish, tropical reefs flourish at Rhinelander's Foster and Smith Kate Zambon , NewsoftheNorth.Net Published 11/19/2009 - 6:35 a.m. CST Get the Flash Player to see this player. Kate Zambon RHINELANDER - Locally it's -common knowledge that Rhinelander-based Drs. Foster and Smith is the largest pet supply catalog company in the country. With around 600 employees, it's one of the largest employers in the Northwoods. However, few realize that in addition to warehouses stocked with pet treats and toys, the Foster and Smith complex houses an enormous marine life facility, where some of the most beautiful and exotic coral and sea creatures in the world flourish year-round. Foster and Smith's foray into the aquaculture and marine life market began in 2002 with the purchase of Ohio-based LiveAquaria, hiring founder, Kevin Kohen, as the director of the new Rhinelander facility. Fueled by an explosion in fish tank filtration and lighting technologies in the 1990's, the marine aquarium market grew rapidly. Previously keeping salt-water tanks was prohibitively difficult, making it accessible only to the most advanced hobbyists. With the growth of the market, Foster and Smith began exploring the possibility of breeding captive coral and other rare marine species in their own aquaculture plant, or coral farm. At the time of its construction in 2005, Foster and Smith's aquaculture coral and marine life unit was one of the first of such farms in the country. Striving for Sustainability Kohen said the main challenge the small, but growing marine life industry faces is becoming self-sustaining. "We're trying to offset some of this wild harvest with desirable species of coral, grown in large quantities, to be able to supply the United States with captive grown coral," he said. But while LiveAquaria . . . \\Steve//

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 44620	From: N Taweel	Date: 11/21/2009
Subject: Job needed for a young algae eater

Hi, Can you repetitively transfer a small (<2") Chinese Alge Eater between two well mentained tanks (6G and 20G) safely without putting him into stress? I'm thinking of putting him in the 6G for two days amonth or so to clean the algae properly, he seems to be doing a better job than I am about this! and putting a new CAE in the 6G seems unfair for him (small water volume). P.S: I'm aware of how to acclimate before transferring from one tank to the other. What do you think? Noura [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 44621	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 11/21/2009
Subject: Re: Job needed for a young algae eater

If you keep the water parameters the same in both tanks by doing regular cross partial water changes between the two tanks, that would be best so you do not even have to worry about doing acclimation. I know (many are thinking NOOOOO!!!), but... while it's usually not best to mix the water from different tanks as it could transfer pathogens, if you're going to be moving a fish back and forth, that act carries the same risk of pathogen transfer so you might as well make both tank's water identical so it's less stress on the fish. If the fish does not get as stressed, it's less likely to have immune system issues which makes it less likely to being infected by any pathogens (which are almost always present anyhow). All that said, start doing small water transfers, maybe 1G from the 6G into the 20G and vice versa, EACH DAY, between the two tanks so the fish will slowly acclimate in both tanks, to the same water parameters. This will also give the fishes a chance to build up immunity to any pathogens that may not be in each other's tanks. Keep an eye on all the fish for any signs of bacteria/parasite issues. When doing weekly PWC's, do similar percentages on each tank and then ALSO do a 1G cross transfer after each weekly PWC and maybe one or two more 1G cross transfers during the week. This will keep the tanks as close to identical and your testing for pH, GH, KH and any other test will confirm that the two tanks are staying nearly identical. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of N Taweel Sent: Saturday, November 21, 2009 2:17 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Job needed for a young algae eater Hi, Can you repetitively transfer a small (<2") Chinese Alge Eater between two well mentained tanks (6G and 20G) safely without putting him into stress? I'm thinking of putting him in the 6G for two days amonth or so to clean the algae properly, he seems to be doing a better job than I am about this! and putting a new CAE in the 6G seems unfair for him (small water volume). P.S: I'm aware of how to acclimate before transferring from one tank to the other. What do you think? Noura

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 44622	From: sevenspringss@wmconnect.com	Date: 11/21/2009
Subject: Re: Job needed for a young algae eater

Noura, Provided that your two tanks have very similar water parameters, and provided your acclimation knowledge is fairly reasonable, this should at least lessen the associated stress on the fish, but just the process of netting (and transferring) the fish will induce an amount of stress on this fish. I would re-think this proposed action if at all possible, although I can't see where any long-term problems would arise that would be terribly detrimental to this fish if your waters are the same -- or at least none that I can think of right now. Maybe Lenny, \\Steve// or another member can add to something here that I may not have realized. Ray [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 44623	From: Donna Ransome	Date: 11/21/2009
Subject: Re: Job needed for a young algae eater

I'd do snails in the 6G. I don't know exactly why, but I don't like the idea of juggling a living creature for it's work efforts. I figure I caused them to be plucked out of their homes, I owe them the best existence I can give them. Silly. _____ From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of sevenspringss@... Sent: Saturday, November 21, 2009 6:23 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Job needed for a young algae eater Noura, Provided that your two tanks have very similar water parameters, and provided your acclimation knowledge is fairly reasonable, this should at least lessen the associated stress on the fish, but just the process of netting (and transferring) the fish will induce an amount of stress on this fish. I would re-think this proposed action if at all possible, although I can't see where any long-term problems would arise that would be terribly detrimental to this fish if your waters are the same -- or at least none that I can think of right now. Maybe Lenny, \\Steve// or another member can add to something here that I may not have realized. Ray [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 44624	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 11/21/2009
Subject: Re: Job needed for a young algae eater

Ray, I was trying to think of something that may help Noura so she would not feel the need to transfer the fish back and forth between aquaria. As I recall, she lives in Syria, or one of the neighboring countries, and has a difficult time finding livestock and the other paraphernalia that goes with fishkeeping. We know nothing of what is being kept in the smaller tank, other than algae. She has told us that the fish is a Chinese algae eater, which will quickly outgrow both tanks as well as its taste for algae, which is not that great to start. My thought is that, perhaps, she may want to take a look at what snails may be available to her, and come back to us with that information, along with the inhabitant(s) of her small tank,, and the water parameters. The snail people here may be able to help with her choice of snail, should any be available. The type of algae she has in the tank will also play a factor here. The truth here is that there are many different algae, and the animals that we use to eat algae do have their preferences as to the type or types they will eat, which is a subject not well explored in commonly available literature, nor in the hobby's "folklore". In the end, it may simply be easier to clean off the algae from the surfaces it inhabits rather than to find a critter that will do it for her and be able to remain in such a small tank. \\Steve// (N.B. This took me a real long time to write because I got sucked into a movie I thought was just going to be schlock, and it was, but the kind of schlock that grabs your attention (or at least my attention).) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of sevenspringss@... Sent: Saturday, November 21, 2009 6:23 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Job needed for a young algae eater Noura, Provided that your two tanks have very similar water parameters, and provided your acclimation knowledge is fairly reasonable, this should at least lessen the associated stress on the fish, but just the process of netting (and transferring) the fish will induce an amount of stress on this fish. I would re-think this proposed action if at all possible, although I can't see where any long-term problems would arise that would be terribly detrimental to this fish if your waters are the same -- or at least none that I can think of right now. Maybe Lenny, \\Steve// or another member can add to something here that I may not have realized. Ray

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 44625	From: Cheryl Ellison	Date: 11/21/2009
Subject: Re: Babies

Holy cow! I'm in big trouble then. Both females still look really fat, I just thought they were eating a lot. Cheryl from Seattle http://cherylshtuff.blogspot.com/ ----- Original Message ----- From: Steve Szabo To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Friday, November 20, 2009 6:36 PM Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: Babies Cheryl, I do not want to burst your bubble, but, female platys along with some other livebearers, can store sperm to have a many as 6 broods before seeing another male. As for the gender change mentioned by Amber, I have not seen it reported in the literature. This tale may have developed because the females, as noted above, can drop as many as six broods from one impregnation of sperm. \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of CherylE Sent: Friday, November 20, 2009 8:31 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Babies I don't think they have changed genders, they still look like girls. I think the gestation period is around 28 days and I got them about 5 weeks ago, the babies are probably a week or so old, I'm not sure what to do if they continue having babies, I know that my goldfish in my pond have babies every year but the racoons keeps them thinned out. I guess I could try and give them to the fish store if I get too many. I am surprised that my guppies haven't had babies yet, or at least any that I have seen, I have had them about 6 weeks, two males and three females. I guess I should be happy. Cheryl --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, Amber Berglund <arberglund@...> wrote: > > I have heard a rumor that platy's can change gender, I'm not sure if > it's true or not though. > Also most fish don't eat platy's I swear they are the "throw backs" of > freshwater fish, they must taste icky ;) LOL. > > Amber > > CherylE wrote: > > > > I noticed a baby fish in my tank a few days ago and since then I have > > seen several more, at least four. They are definitely Platys. I have > > two female adult Mickey Mouse Platys and some guppies, neon tetras, > > head & tail light tetras, zebra danios, a blue gourami, a bristlenose > > pleco and a spotted corey. It looks like they might be just big enough > > to survive now, the other fish seem to leave them alone. It was quite > > a shock since my Platys are females and I have had them for about 6 > > weeks, one or both must have been pregnant when I bought them. Anyway, > > they are so cute, I will try and post pictures later when I get home > > from work. > > > > Cheryl from Seattle > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 44626	From: bill 1433	Date: 11/21/2009
Subject: Re: Babies

No problem Cheryl BUT------just like humans, make sure these new Mom's get plenty to eat and some places to hide for peace and quite.   Bill --- On Sat, 11/21/09, Cheryl Ellison <cheryl.ellison@...> wrote: From: Cheryl Ellison <cheryl.ellison@...> Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: Babies To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Date: Saturday, November 21, 2009, 10:39 AM Holy cow!  I'm in big trouble then.  Both females still look really fat, I just thought they were eating a lot. Cheryl from Seattle http://cherylshtuff.blogspot.com/   ----- Original Message -----   From: Steve Szabo   To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com   Sent: Friday, November 20, 2009 6:36 PM   Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: Babies       Cheryl,   I do not want to burst your bubble, but, female platys along with some other   livebearers, can store sperm to have a many as 6 broods before seeing   another male.   As for the gender change mentioned by Amber, I have not seen it reported in   the literature. This tale may have developed because the females, as noted   above, can drop as many as six broods from one impregnation of sperm.   \\Steve//   -----Original Message-----   From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On   Behalf Of CherylE   Sent: Friday, November 20, 2009 8:31 PM   To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com   Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Babies   I don't think they have changed genders, they still look like girls. I   think the gestation period is around 28 days and I got them about 5 weeks   ago, the babies are probably a week or so old, I'm not sure what to do if   they continue having babies, I know that my goldfish in my pond have babies   every year but the racoons keeps them thinned out. I guess I could try and   give them to the fish store if I get too many. I am surprised that my   guppies haven't had babies yet, or at least any that I have seen, I have had   them about 6 weeks, two males and three females. I guess I should be happy.   Cheryl   --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, Amber Berglund <arberglund@...> wrote:   >   > I have heard a rumor that platy's can change gender, I'm not sure if   > it's true or not though.   > Also most fish don't eat platy's I swear they are the "throw backs" of   > freshwater fish, they must taste icky ;) LOL.   >   > Amber   >   > CherylE wrote:   > >   > > I noticed a baby fish in my tank a few days ago and since then I have   > > seen several more, at least four. They are definitely Platys. I have   > > two female adult Mickey Mouse Platys and some guppies, neon tetras,   > > head & tail light tetras, zebra danios, a blue gourami, a bristlenose   > > pleco and a spotted corey. It looks like they might be just big enough   > > to survive now, the other fish seem to leave them alone. It was quite   > > a shock since my Platys are females and I have had them for about 6   > > weeks, one or both must have been pregnant when I bought them. Anyway,   > > they are so cute, I will try and post pictures later when I get home   > > from work.   > >   > > Cheryl from Seattle   > >   > >   >   [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] ------------------------------------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the home page.  Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com to receive the digest, which includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com for the No E-Mail option where you will still be able to read messages on the group and post replies. Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com to receive individual e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 44627	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 11/21/2009
Subject: A brand new Myriophyllum for the planted aquarium hobby

http://aquariumfreak.blogspot.com/2009/11/brand-new-myriophyllum-for-planted _20.html http://tinyurl.com/yz38qh3 A brand new Myriophyllum for the planted aquarium hobby Myriophyllum mezianum has highly dissected light green leaves with reddish apical shoots and it grows significantly slower than the already known species of Myriophyllum. It is produced emergent from tissue culture. Hereby, the aquarist is provided with a healthy and strong plant able to acclimate to local growth condition and thus, assure the aquarist a successful experience. Myriophyllum mezianum in its natural habitat in River Ambodimanga on the east coast of Madagascar. Claus Christensen found Myriophyllum mezianum on the east coast of Madagascar in 2006. Here, it grew above as well as below water in the River Ambodimanga. Both young and older individuals formed low dense stands under water and immediately caught Claus' interest. Since then, we have tested the plant under various conditions of light, CO2, water hardness and different fertilisation schemes. Following these initial test, the plant was cleaned and prepared for tissue culture production by our laboratory and tested further in our production. . . . \\Steve//

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 44628	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 11/21/2009
Subject: Re: Job needed for a young algae eater

This reminds me of something else I failed to mention in my earlier post. You should use the food in the net (preferably an algae wafer/thin) method of catching the SAE instead of chasing the fish around the tank. I think this is the least stressful way. At least the fish voluntarily swims into the net and if the water parameters are identical, as I previously outlined in my earlier post, you can just net him and move him to the other tank and release him which would be less stressful than moving him from the 20G tank to a holding tank and then into the 6G tank. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of sevenspringss@... Sent: Saturday, November 21, 2009 5:23 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Job needed for a young algae eater Noura, Provided that your two tanks have very similar water parameters, and provided your acclimation knowledge is fairly reasonable, this should at least lessen the associated stress on the fish, but just the process of netting (and transferring) the fish will induce an amount of stress on this fish. I would re-think this proposed action if at all possible, although I can't see where any long-term problems would arise that would be terribly detrimental to this fish if your waters are the same -- or at least none that I can think of right now. Maybe Lenny, \\Steve// or another member can add to something here that I may not have realized. Ray

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 44629	From: N Taweel	Date: 11/21/2009
Subject: Re: Job needed for a young algae eater

That process of making the two tanks' water identical sounds like a LOT of work for a busy mom of two. I barely can keep up with the needs of my tanks to stay well mentained. So I'm thinking of this: is there a suitable alge eater to live in a 6G Goupy fry tank? There isn't excessive growth of alge, only the green ones all over the glass due to the nearby window's light, which is not a pretty sight, and I can't remove them all by using the magnet scrubber (sp?). Noura ------ Original Message ----- Re: Job needed for a young algae eater Posted by: "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" GoldLenny@... goldlenny_blogspot Sat Nov 21, 2009 1:19 am (PST) If you keep the water parameters the same in both tanks by doing regular cross partial water changes between the two tanks, that would be best so you do not even have to worry about doing acclimation. I know (many are thinking NOOOOO!!!), but... while it's usually not best to mix the water from different tanks as it could transfer pathogens, if you're going to be moving a fish back and forth, that act carries the same risk of pathogen transfer so you might as well make both tank's water identical so it's less stress on the fish. If the fish does not get as stressed, it's less likely to have immune system issues which makes it less likely to being infected by any pathogens (which are almost always present anyhow). All that said, start doing small water transfers, maybe 1G from the 6G into the 20G and vice versa, EACH DAY, between the two tanks so the fish will slowly acclimate in both tanks, to the same water parameters. This will also give the fishes a chance to build up immunity to any pathogens that may not be in each other's tanks. Keep an eye on all the fish for any signs of bacteria/parasite issues. When doing weekly PWC's, do similar percentages on each tank and then ALSO do a 1G cross transfer after each weekly PWC and maybe one or two more 1G cross transfers during the week. This will keep the tanks as close to identical and your testing for pH, GH, KH and any other test will confirm that the two tanks are staying nearly identical. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of N Taweel Sent: Saturday, November 21, 2009 2:17 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Job needed for a young algae eater Hi, Can you repetitively transfer a small (<2") Chinese Alge Eater between two well mentained tanks (6G and 20G) safely without putting him into stress? I'm thinking of putting him in the 6G for two days amonth or so to clean the algae properly, he seems to be doing a better job than I am about this! and putting a new CAE in the 6G seems unfair for him (small water volume). P.S: I'm aware of how to acclimate before transferring from one tank to the other. What do you think? Noura [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 44630	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 11/21/2009
Subject: Re: Job needed for a young algae eater

A Mystery Snail is about the only thing that would work. Amber says they do not eat as much algae as they mature, compared to when they are still young so as they mature and stop eating as much algae, you could move it to your larger tank(s) and get a new baby/juvi Mystery Snail for the 6G. Also, put up something to block sunlight from the window and that will prevent a LOT of the algae from happening in the first place. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of N Taweel Sent: Saturday, November 21, 2009 6:46 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Job needed for a young algae eater That process of making the two tanks' water identical sounds like a LOT of work for a busy mom of two. I barely can keep up with the needs of my tanks to stay well mentained. So I'm thinking of this: is there a suitable alge eater to live in a 6G Goupy fry tank? There isn't excessive growth of alge, only the green ones all over the glass due to the nearby window's light, which is not a pretty sight, and I can't remove them all by using the magnet scrubber (sp?). Noura ------ Original Message ----- Re: Job needed for a young algae eater Posted by: "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" GoldLenny@... goldlenny_blogspot Sat Nov 21, 2009 1:19 am (PST) If you keep the water parameters the same in both tanks by doing regular cross partial water changes between the two tanks, that would be best so you do not even have to worry about doing acclimation. I know (many are thinking NOOOOO!!!), but... while it's usually not best to mix the water from different tanks as it could transfer pathogens, if you're going to be moving a fish back and forth, that act carries the same risk of pathogen transfer so you might as well make both tank's water identical so it's less stress on the fish. If the fish does not get as stressed, it's less likely to have immune system issues which makes it less likely to being infected by any pathogens (which are almost always present anyhow). All that said, start doing small water transfers, maybe 1G from the 6G into the 20G and vice versa, EACH DAY, between the two tanks so the fish will slowly acclimate in both tanks, to the same water parameters. This will also give the fishes a chance to build up immunity to any pathogens that may not be in each other's tanks. Keep an eye on all the fish for any signs of bacteria/parasite issues. When doing weekly PWC's, do similar percentages on each tank and then ALSO do a 1G cross transfer after each weekly PWC and maybe one or two more 1G cross transfers during the week. This will keep the tanks as close to identical and your testing for pH, GH, KH and any other test will confirm that the two tanks are staying nearly identical. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of N Taweel Sent: Saturday, November 21, 2009 2:17 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Job needed for a young algae eater Hi, Can you repetitively transfer a small (<2") Chinese Alge Eater between two well mentained tanks (6G and 20G) safely without putting him into stress? I'm thinking of putting him in the 6G for two days amonth or so to clean the algae properly, he seems to be doing a better job than I am about this! and putting a new CAE in the 6G seems unfair for him (small water volume). P.S: I'm aware of how to acclimate before transferring from one tank to the other. What do you think? Noura

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 44631	From: Menagerie_Manager	Date: 11/21/2009
Subject: Food in the net method (was: Job needed for a young algae eater)

This has gotten me thinking. A lot of people do fire drills with their pets as well as their kids. The pets are trained to either come to the door or jump into a travel crate on command. I've always figured that if we had a house fire, all I could do with the fish was hope they don't boil or have the glass crack and water drain out of the aquarium. I wonder if I could train them to come to a net if I always feed them in it. Then I could keep a five gallon bucket and Prime easily reachable in case we have to evacuate suddenly. Hmmmmm . . . DebR and the Three Goldfish (CB, Lucille, and Raven) ----- Original Message ----- From: "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@...> This reminds me of something else I failed to mention in my earlier post. You should use the food in the net (preferably an algae wafer/thin) method of catching the SAE instead of chasing the fish around the tank. I think this is the least stressful way. At least the fish voluntarily swims into the net and if the water parameters are identical, as I previously outlined in my earlier post, you can just net him and move him to the other tank and release him which would be less stressful than moving him from the 20G tank to a holding tank and then into the 6G tank. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month)

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 44632	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 11/21/2009
Subject: Re: Job needed for a young algae eater

So.... what was the "schlocky" movie? Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Steve Szabo Sent: Saturday, November 21, 2009 8:48 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Job needed for a young algae eater Ray, I was trying to think of something that may help Noura so she would not feel the need to transfer the fish back and forth between aquaria. As I recall, she lives in Syria, or one of the neighboring countries, and has a difficult time finding livestock and the other paraphernalia that goes with fishkeeping. We know nothing of what is being kept in the smaller tank, other than algae. She has told us that the fish is a Chinese algae eater, which will quickly outgrow both tanks as well as its taste for algae, which is not that great to start. My thought is that, perhaps, she may want to take a look at what snails may be available to her, and come back to us with that information, along with the inhabitant(s) of her small tank,, and the water parameters. The snail people here may be able to help with her choice of snail, should any be available. The type of algae she has in the tank will also play a factor here. The truth here is that there are many different algae, and the animals that we use to eat algae do have their preferences as to the type or types they will eat, which is a subject not well explored in commonly available literature, nor in the hobby's "folklore". In the end, it may simply be easier to clean off the algae from the surfaces it inhabits rather than to find a critter that will do it for her and be able to remain in such a small tank. \\Steve// (N.B. This took me a real long time to write because I got sucked into a movie I thought was just going to be schlock, and it was, but the kind of schlock that grabs your attention (or at least my attention).) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of sevenspringss@... Sent: Saturday, November 21, 2009 6:23 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Job needed for a young algae eater Noura, Provided that your two tanks have very similar water parameters, and provided your acclimation knowledge is fairly reasonable, this should at least lessen the associated stress on the fish, but just the process of netting (and transferring) the fish will induce an amount of stress on this fish. I would re-think this proposed action if at all possible, although I can't see where any long-term problems would arise that would be terribly detrimental to this fish if your waters are the same -- or at least none that I can think of right now. Maybe Lenny, \\Steve// or another member can add to something here that I may not have realized. Ray

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 44633	From: Donna Ransome	Date: 11/21/2009
Subject: Re: Job needed for a young algae eater

What about a freshwater nerite? _____ From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Lenny V. aka GoldLenny Sent: Saturday, November 21, 2009 1:08 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: Job needed for a young algae eater A Mystery Snail is about the only thing that would work. Amber says they do not eat as much algae as they mature, compared to when they are still young so as they mature and stop eating as much algae, you could move it to your larger tank(s) and get a new baby/juvi Mystery Snail for the 6G. Also, put up something to block sunlight from the window and that will prevent a LOT of the algae from happening in the first place. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of N Taweel Sent: Saturday, November 21, 2009 6:46 AM To: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Job needed for a young algae eater That process of making the two tanks' water identical sounds like a LOT of work for a busy mom of two. I barely can keep up with the needs of my tanks to stay well mentained. So I'm thinking of this: is there a suitable alge eater to live in a 6G Goupy fry tank? There isn't excessive growth of alge, only the green ones all over the glass due to the nearby window's light, which is not a pretty sight, and I can't remove them all by using the magnet scrubber (sp?). Noura ------ Original Message ----- Re: Job needed for a young algae eater Posted by: "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" GoldLenny@gmail. <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com> com goldlenny_blogspot Sat Nov 21, 2009 1:19 am (PST) If you keep the water parameters the same in both tanks by doing regular cross partial water changes between the two tanks, that would be best so you do not even have to worry about doing acclimation. I know (many are thinking NOOOOO!!!), but... while it's usually not best to mix the water from different tanks as it could transfer pathogens, if you're going to be moving a fish back and forth, that act carries the same risk of pathogen transfer so you might as well make both tank's water identical so it's less stress on the fish. If the fish does not get as stressed, it's less likely to have immune system issues which makes it less likely to being infected by any pathogens (which are almost always present anyhow). All that said, start doing small water transfers, maybe 1G from the 6G into the 20G and vice versa, EACH DAY, between the two tanks so the fish will slowly acclimate in both tanks, to the same water parameters. This will also give the fishes a chance to build up immunity to any pathogens that may not be in each other's tanks. Keep an eye on all the fish for any signs of bacteria/parasite issues. When doing weekly PWC's, do similar percentages on each tank and then ALSO do a 1G cross transfer after each weekly PWC and maybe one or two more 1G cross transfers during the week. This will keep the tanks as close to identical and your testing for pH, GH, KH and any other test will confirm that the two tanks are staying nearly identical. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of N Taweel Sent: Saturday, November 21, 2009 2:17 AM To: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Job needed for a young algae eater Hi, Can you repetitively transfer a small (<2") Chinese Alge Eater between two well mentained tanks (6G and 20G) safely without putting him into stress? I'm thinking of putting him in the 6G for two days amonth or so to clean the algae properly, he seems to be doing a better job than I am about this! and putting a new CAE in the 6G seems unfair for him (small water volume). P.S: I'm aware of how to acclimate before transferring from one tank to the other. What do you think? Noura [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 44634	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 11/21/2009
Subject: Re: Babies

Cheryl, Well, you do have a glimmer of hope. Two factors, first, platys are pretty much "chunky" fish, so they may not really be fat, just showing their true form. Second, if they do drop again, momma and the others may ensure that you do not add significantly to your tank's population, courtesy of the platys, each month. Of course, now that you have young in the tank, you have the chance of one or more being males. Naturally, they do need to grow to sexual maturity, but when they do, keep in mind that, in the fish word, there is no such thing as an Oedipal complex. \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Cheryl Ellison Sent: Saturday, November 21, 2009 10:39 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: Babies Holy cow! I'm in big trouble then. Both females still look really fat, I just thought they were eating a lot. Cheryl from Seattle http://cherylshtuff.blogspot.com/ ----- Original Message ----- From: Steve Szabo To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Friday, November 20, 2009 6:36 PM Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: Babies Cheryl, I do not want to burst your bubble, but, female platys along with some other livebearers, can store sperm to have a many as 6 broods before seeing another male. As for the gender change mentioned by Amber, I have not seen it reported in the literature. This tale may have developed because the females, as noted above, can drop as many as six broods from one impregnation of sperm. \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of CherylE Sent: Friday, November 20, 2009 8:31 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Babies I don't think they have changed genders, they still look like girls. I think the gestation period is around 28 days and I got them about 5 weeks ago, the babies are probably a week or so old, I'm not sure what to do if they continue having babies, I know that my goldfish in my pond have babies every year but the racoons keeps them thinned out. I guess I could try and give them to the fish store if I get too many. I am surprised that my guppies haven't had babies yet, or at least any that I have seen, I have had them about 6 weeks, two males and three females. I guess I should be happy. Cheryl --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, Amber Berglund <arberglund@...> wrote: > > I have heard a rumor that platy's can change gender, I'm not sure if > it's true or not though. > Also most fish don't eat platy's I swear they are the "throw backs" of > freshwater fish, they must taste icky ;) LOL. > > Amber > > CherylE wrote: > > > > I noticed a baby fish in my tank a few days ago and since then I have > > seen several more, at least four. They are definitely Platys. I have > > two female adult Mickey Mouse Platys and some guppies, neon tetras, > > head & tail light tetras, zebra danios, a blue gourami, a bristlenose > > pleco and a spotted corey. It looks like they might be just big enough > > to survive now, the other fish seem to leave them alone. It was quite > > a shock since my Platys are females and I have had them for about 6 > > weeks, one or both must have been pregnant when I bought them. Anyway, > > they are so cute, I will try and post pictures later when I get home > > from work. > > > > Cheryl from Seattle > > > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 44635	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 11/21/2009
Subject: Re: Job needed for a young algae eater

Scanner. \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Lenny V. aka GoldLenny Sent: Saturday, November 21, 2009 1:14 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Job needed for a young algae eater So.... what was the "schlocky" movie? Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Steve Szabo Sent: Saturday, November 21, 2009 8:48 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Job needed for a young algae eater Ray, I was trying to think of something that may help Noura so she would not feel the need to transfer the fish back and forth between aquaria. As I recall, she lives in Syria, or one of the neighboring countries, and has a difficult time finding livestock and the other paraphernalia that goes with fishkeeping. We know nothing of what is being kept in the smaller tank, other than algae. She has told us that the fish is a Chinese algae eater, which will quickly outgrow both tanks as well as its taste for algae, which is not that great to start. My thought is that, perhaps, she may want to take a look at what snails may be available to her, and come back to us with that information, along with the inhabitant(s) of her small tank,, and the water parameters. The snail people here may be able to help with her choice of snail, should any be available. The type of algae she has in the tank will also play a factor here. The truth here is that there are many different algae, and the animals that we use to eat algae do have their preferences as to the type or types they will eat, which is a subject not well explored in commonly available literature, nor in the hobby's "folklore". In the end, it may simply be easier to clean off the algae from the surfaces it inhabits rather than to find a critter that will do it for her and be able to remain in such a small tank. \\Steve// (N.B. This took me a real long time to write because I got sucked into a movie I thought was just going to be schlock, and it was, but the kind of schlock that grabs your attention (or at least my attention).) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of sevenspringss@... Sent: Saturday, November 21, 2009 6:23 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Job needed for a young algae eater Noura, Provided that your two tanks have very similar water parameters, and provided your acclimation knowledge is fairly reasonable, this should at least lessen the associated stress on the fish, but just the process of netting (and transferring) the fish will induce an amount of stress on this fish. I would re-think this proposed action if at all possible, although I can't see where any long-term problems would arise that would be terribly detrimental to this fish if your waters are the same -- or at least none that I can think of right now. Maybe Lenny, \\Steve// or another member can add to something here that I may not have realized. Ray ------------------------------------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. 74/`7.88.><((((:>.74/`7.88.74/`7.8><((((:> 8.74/`7.8. , .74/`7..><((((:> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <:((((><.74/`7.88.74/`7.8<:((((><8.74/`7.8. , .74/`7..<:((((><74/`7.88. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the home page. Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com to receive the digest, which includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com for the No E-Mail option where you will still be able to read messages on the group and post replies. Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com to receive individual e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 44636	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 11/21/2009
Subject: Re: Job needed for a young algae eater

ScannerS??? From 1981? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scanners And I wonder how many others know what "N.B." stands for? We use to use that a LOT in the legal world, though I rarely see it outside of that world and even more rarely see it in emails. ;-) Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Steve Szabo Sent: Saturday, November 21, 2009 12:50 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Job needed for a young algae eater Scanner. \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Lenny V. aka GoldLenny Sent: Saturday, November 21, 2009 1:14 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Job needed for a young algae eater So.... what was the "schlocky" movie? Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Steve Szabo Sent: Saturday, November 21, 2009 8:48 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Job needed for a young algae eater Ray, I was trying to think of something that may help Noura so she would not feel the need to transfer the fish back and forth between aquaria. As I recall, she lives in Syria, or one of the neighboring countries, and has a difficult time finding livestock and the other paraphernalia that goes with fishkeeping. We know nothing of what is being kept in the smaller tank, other than algae. She has told us that the fish is a Chinese algae eater, which will quickly outgrow both tanks as well as its taste for algae, which is not that great to start. My thought is that, perhaps, she may want to take a look at what snails may be available to her, and come back to us with that information, along with the inhabitant(s) of her small tank,, and the water parameters. The snail people here may be able to help with her choice of snail, should any be available. The type of algae she has in the tank will also play a factor here. The truth here is that there are many different algae, and the animals that we use to eat algae do have their preferences as to the type or types they will eat, which is a subject not well explored in commonly available literature, nor in the hobby's "folklore". In the end, it may simply be easier to clean off the algae from the surfaces it inhabits rather than to find a critter that will do it for her and be able to remain in such a small tank. \\Steve// (N.B. This took me a real long time to write because I got sucked into a movie I thought was just going to be schlock, and it was, but the kind of schlock that grabs your attention (or at least my attention).) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of sevenspringss@... Sent: Saturday, November 21, 2009 6:23 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Job needed for a young algae eater Noura, Provided that your two tanks have very similar water parameters, and provided your acclimation knowledge is fairly reasonable, this should at least lessen the associated stress on the fish, but just the process of netting (and transferring) the fish will induce an amount of stress on this fish. I would re-think this proposed action if at all possible, although I can't see where any long-term problems would arise that would be terribly detrimental to this fish if your waters are the same -- or at least none that I can think of right now. Maybe Lenny, \\Steve// or another member can add to something here that I may not have realized. Ray ------------------------------------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. 74/`7.88.><((((:>.74/`7.88.74/`7.8><((((:> 8.74/`7.8. , .74/`7..><((((:> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <:((((><.74/`7.88.74/`7.8<:((((><8.74/`7.8. , .74/`7..<:((((><74/`7.88. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the home page. Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com to receive the digest, which includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com for the No E-Mail option where you will still be able to read messages on the group and post replies. Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com to receive individual e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links ------------------------------------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. 74/`7.88.><((((:>.74/`7.88.74/`7.8><((((:> 8.74/`7.8. , .74/`7..><((((:> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <:((((><.74/`7.88.74/`7.8<:((((><8.74/`7.8. , .74/`7..<:((((><74/`7.88. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the home page. Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com to receive the digest, which includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com for the No E-Mail option where you will still be able to read messages on the group and post replies. Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com to receive individual e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 44637	From: Cheryl Ellison	Date: 11/21/2009
Subject: Re: Babies

Believe me, they get their share of food. Their tank mates are all friendly, no one seems to bother them, although I have seen the male guppies getting right up next to them at times, but they don't seem bothered by them. I have them in a 90 gallon well planted aquarium, with lots of hiding places, that is probably why these babies are still alive, although they are now starting to join in with the other fishes now, even imitating them. Cheryl from Seattle http://cherylshtuff.blogspot.com/ ----- Original Message ----- From: bill 1433 To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Saturday, November 21, 2009 9:10 AM Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: Babies No problem Cheryl BUT------just like humans, make sure these new Mom's get plenty to eat and some places to hide for peace and quite. Bill --- On Sat, 11/21/09, Cheryl Ellison <cheryl.ellison@...> wrote: From: Cheryl Ellison <cheryl.ellison@...> Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: Babies To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Date: Saturday, November 21, 2009, 10:39 AM Holy cow! I'm in big trouble then. Both females still look really fat, I just thought they were eating a lot. Cheryl from Seattle http://cherylshtuff.blogspot.com/ ----- Original Message ----- From: Steve Szabo To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Friday, November 20, 2009 6:36 PM Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: Babies Cheryl, I do not want to burst your bubble, but, female platys along with some other livebearers, can store sperm to have a many as 6 broods before seeing another male. As for the gender change mentioned by Amber, I have not seen it reported in the literature. This tale may have developed because the females, as noted above, can drop as many as six broods from one impregnation of sperm. \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of CherylE Sent: Friday, November 20, 2009 8:31 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Babies I don't think they have changed genders, they still look like girls. I think the gestation period is around 28 days and I got them about 5 weeks ago, the babies are probably a week or so old, I'm not sure what to do if they continue having babies, I know that my goldfish in my pond have babies every year but the racoons keeps them thinned out. I guess I could try and give them to the fish store if I get too many. I am surprised that my guppies haven't had babies yet, or at least any that I have seen, I have had them about 6 weeks, two males and three females. I guess I should be happy. Cheryl --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, Amber Berglund <arberglund@...> wrote: > > I have heard a rumor that platy's can change gender, I'm not sure if > it's true or not though. > Also most fish don't eat platy's I swear they are the "throw backs" of > freshwater fish, they must taste icky ;) LOL. > > Amber > > CherylE wrote: > > > > I noticed a baby fish in my tank a few days ago and since then I have > > seen several more, at least four. They are definitely Platys. I have > > two female adult Mickey Mouse Platys and some guppies, neon tetras, > > head & tail light tetras, zebra danios, a blue gourami, a bristlenose > > pleco and a spotted corey. It looks like they might be just big enough > > to survive now, the other fish seem to leave them alone. It was quite > > a shock since my Platys are females and I have had them for about 6 > > weeks, one or both must have been pregnant when I bought them. Anyway, > > they are so cute, I will try and post pictures later when I get home > > from work. > > > > Cheryl from Seattle > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] ------------------------------------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the home page. Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com to receive the digest, which includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com for the No E-Mail option where you will still be able to read messages on the group and post replies. Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com to receive individual e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 44638	From: Cheryl Ellison	Date: 11/21/2009
Subject: Re: Babies

It's scary to think that that theory could exist in the human world. Cheryl from Seattle http://cherylshtuff.blogspot.com/ ----- Original Message ----- From: Steve Szabo To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Saturday, November 21, 2009 10:43 AM Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: Babies Cheryl, Well, you do have a glimmer of hope. Two factors, first, platys are pretty much "chunky" fish, so they may not really be fat, just showing their true form. Second, if they do drop again, momma and the others may ensure that you do not add significantly to your tank's population, courtesy of the platys, each month. Of course, now that you have young in the tank, you have the chance of one or more being males. Naturally, they do need to grow to sexual maturity, but when they do, keep in mind that, in the fish word, there is no such thing as an Oedipal complex. \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Cheryl Ellison Sent: Saturday, November 21, 2009 10:39 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: Babies Holy cow! I'm in big trouble then. Both females still look really fat, I just thought they were eating a lot. Cheryl from Seattle http://cherylshtuff.blogspot.com/ ----- Original Message ----- From: Steve Szabo To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Friday, November 20, 2009 6:36 PM Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: Babies Cheryl, I do not want to burst your bubble, but, female platys along with some other livebearers, can store sperm to have a many as 6 broods before seeing another male. As for the gender change mentioned by Amber, I have not seen it reported in the literature. This tale may have developed because the females, as noted above, can drop as many as six broods from one impregnation of sperm. \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of CherylE Sent: Friday, November 20, 2009 8:31 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Babies I don't think they have changed genders, they still look like girls. I think the gestation period is around 28 days and I got them about 5 weeks ago, the babies are probably a week or so old, I'm not sure what to do if they continue having babies, I know that my goldfish in my pond have babies every year but the racoons keeps them thinned out. I guess I could try and give them to the fish store if I get too many. I am surprised that my guppies haven't had babies yet, or at least any that I have seen, I have had them about 6 weeks, two males and three females. I guess I should be happy. Cheryl --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, Amber Berglund <arberglund@...> wrote: > > I have heard a rumor that platy's can change gender, I'm not sure if > it's true or not though. > Also most fish don't eat platy's I swear they are the "throw backs" of > freshwater fish, they must taste icky ;) LOL. > > Amber > > CherylE wrote: > > > > I noticed a baby fish in my tank a few days ago and since then I have > > seen several more, at least four. They are definitely Platys. I have > > two female adult Mickey Mouse Platys and some guppies, neon tetras, > > head & tail light tetras, zebra danios, a blue gourami, a bristlenose > > pleco and a spotted corey. It looks like they might be just big enough > > to survive now, the other fish seem to leave them alone. It was quite > > a shock since my Platys are females and I have had them for about 6 > > weeks, one or both must have been pregnant when I bought them. Anyway, > > they are so cute, I will try and post pictures later when I get home > > from work. > > > > Cheryl from Seattle > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 44639	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 11/21/2009
Subject: Re: Job needed for a young algae eater

Sorry, it was Scanner Cop (1994). Sam Staziak, a rookie cop with the Los Angeles Police Department, is also a 'scanner' (psionic). When a string of murders begins to decimate the police department, Sam faces sensory overload and possible insanity as he uses his powers to hunt the man responsible for the killings. \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Lenny V. aka GoldLenny Sent: Saturday, November 21, 2009 2:55 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Job needed for a young algae eater ScannerS??? From 1981? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scanners And I wonder how many others know what "N.B." stands for? We use to use that a LOT in the legal world, though I rarely see it outside of that world and even more rarely see it in emails. ;-) Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Steve Szabo Sent: Saturday, November 21, 2009 12:50 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Job needed for a young algae eater Scanner. \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Lenny V. aka GoldLenny Sent: Saturday, November 21, 2009 1:14 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Job needed for a young algae eater So.... what was the "schlocky" movie? Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Steve Szabo Sent: Saturday, November 21, 2009 8:48 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Job needed for a young algae eater Ray, I was trying to think of something that may help Noura so she would not feel the need to transfer the fish back and forth between aquaria. As I recall, she lives in Syria, or one of the neighboring countries, and has a difficult time finding livestock and the other paraphernalia that goes with fishkeeping. We know nothing of what is being kept in the smaller tank, other than algae. She has told us that the fish is a Chinese algae eater, which will quickly outgrow both tanks as well as its taste for algae, which is not that great to start. My thought is that, perhaps, she may want to take a look at what snails may be available to her, and come back to us with that information, along with the inhabitant(s) of her small tank,, and the water parameters. The snail people here may be able to help with her choice of snail, should any be available. The type of algae she has in the tank will also play a factor here. The truth here is that there are many different algae, and the animals that we use to eat algae do have their preferences as to the type or types they will eat, which is a subject not well explored in commonly available literature, nor in the hobby's "folklore". In the end, it may simply be easier to clean off the algae from the surfaces it inhabits rather than to find a critter that will do it for her and be able to remain in such a small tank. \\Steve// (N.B. This took me a real long time to write because I got sucked into a movie I thought was just going to be schlock, and it was, but the kind of schlock that grabs your attention (or at least my attention).) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of sevenspringss@... Sent: Saturday, November 21, 2009 6:23 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Job needed for a young algae eater Noura, Provided that your two tanks have very similar water parameters, and provided your acclimation knowledge is fairly reasonable, this should at least lessen the associated stress on the fish, but just the process of netting (and transferring) the fish will induce an amount of stress on this fish. I would re-think this proposed action if at all possible, although I can't see where any long-term problems would arise that would be terribly detrimental to this fish if your waters are the same -- or at least none that I can think of right now. Maybe Lenny, \\Steve// or another member can add to something here that I may not have realized. Ray

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 44640	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 11/21/2009
Subject: Re: Job needed for a young algae eater

There are guppy fry in the 6 gallon tank, she said that somewhere. If she gets snails she's going to have to get something smaller than a mystery snail, as they need 2.5 gallons per snail, plus once they reach maturity algae is no longer any good eating (trust me, mine aren't eating my algae anymore now that they are an inch big). Amber Steve Szabo wrote: > > Ray, > > I was trying to think of something that may help Noura so she would > not feel > the need to transfer the fish back and forth between aquaria. As I recall, > she lives in Syria, or one of the neighboring countries, and has a > difficult > time finding livestock and the other paraphernalia that goes with > fishkeeping. > > We know nothing of what is being kept in the smaller tank, other than > algae. > She has told us that the fish is a Chinese algae eater, which will quickly > outgrow both tanks as well as its taste for algae, which is not that great > to start. My thought is that, perhaps, she may want to take a look at what > snails may be available to her, and come back to us with that information, > along with the inhabitant(s) of her small tank,, and the water parameters. > The snail people here may be able to help with her choice of snail, should > any be available. > > The type of algae she has in the tank will also play a factor here. The > truth here is that there are many different algae, and the animals that we > use to eat algae do have their preferences as to the type or types > they will > eat, which is a subject not well explored in commonly available > literature, > nor in the hobby's "folklore". In the end, it may simply be easier to > clean > off the algae from the surfaces it inhabits rather than to find a critter > that will do it for her and be able to remain in such a small tank. > > \\Steve// > > (N.B. This took me a real long time to write because I got sucked into a > movie I thought was just going to be schlock, and it was, but the kind of > schlock that grabs your attention (or at least my attention).) > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On > Behalf Of sevenspringss@... > <mailto:sevenspringss%40wmconnect.com> > Sent: Saturday, November 21, 2009 6:23 AM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Job needed for a young algae eater > > Noura, Provided that your two tanks have very similar water parameters, > and provided your acclimation knowledge is fairly reasonable, this > should at > > least lessen the associated stress on the fish, but just the process of > netting (and transferring) the fish will induce an amount of stress on > this > fish. > I would re-think this proposed action if at all possible, although I > can't > see where any long-term problems would arise that would be terribly > detrimental to this fish if your waters are the same -- or at least none > that I can > think of right now. Maybe Lenny, \\Steve// or another member can add to > something here that I may not have realized. Ray > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 44641	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 11/21/2009
Subject: Re: Job needed for a young algae eater

Oh sure, point the finger at me ;) LOL. It's actually Applesnail.net that says they don't eat much algae after they mature, but I've witnessed it first hand in my 55 gallon tank. Now that my tank is terribly overstocked with snails, I've been moving them down to the 125 gallon to give my 55 gallon more room and less bioload (plus all the babies are now almost sexually mature, time to move them to the tank that doesn't seem to be as easy for the snails to reproduce, for some reason I rarely get babies in the bigger tank downstairs, but they breed like crazy in my 55 gallon). I've been moving a handfull every few days. When my mystery snails were all babies the glass was nice and clean from algae, now that they've gotten bigger (as I said, all about an inch in size) they hardly touch the algae now, it's all over the glass (time for a scraping I guess, haven't had to do that for a couple of months, LOL). Even my dwarf pleco's aren't making much of a dent in the algae ;) Amber Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > > A Mystery Snail is about the only thing that would work. Amber says > they do > not eat as much algae as they mature, compared to when they are still > young > so as they mature and stop eating as much algae, you could move it to your > larger tank(s) and get a new baby/juvi Mystery Snail for the 6G. Also, put > up something to block sunlight from the window and that will prevent a LOT > of the algae from happening in the first place. > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right > side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On > Behalf Of N Taweel > Sent: Saturday, November 21, 2009 6:46 AM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Job needed for a young algae eater > > That process of making the two tanks' water identical sounds like a LOT of > work for a busy mom of two. I barely can keep up with the needs of my > tanks > to stay well mentained. > > So I'm thinking of this: is there a suitable alge eater to live in a 6G > Goupy fry tank? There isn't excessive growth of alge, only the green ones > all over the glass due to the nearby window's light, which is not a pretty > sight, and I can't remove them all by using the magnet scrubber (sp?). > > Noura > > ------ Original Message ----- > Re: Job needed for a young algae eater > Posted by: "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" GoldLenny@... > <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com> goldlenny_blogspot > > Sat Nov 21, 2009 1:19 am (PST) > > If you keep the water parameters the same in both tanks by doing regular > cross partial water changes between the two tanks, that would be best > so you > do not even have to worry about doing acclimation. > > I know (many are thinking NOOOOO!!!), but... while it's usually not > best to > mix the water from different tanks as it could transfer pathogens, if > you're > going to be moving a fish back and forth, that act carries the same > risk of > pathogen transfer so you might as well make both tank's water identical so > it's less stress on the fish. If the fish does not get as stressed, it's > less likely to have immune system issues which makes it less likely to > being > infected by any pathogens (which are almost always present anyhow). > > All that said, start doing small water transfers, maybe 1G from the 6G > into > the 20G and vice versa, EACH DAY, between the two tanks so the fish will > slowly acclimate in both tanks, to the same water parameters. This > will also > give the fishes a chance to build up immunity to any pathogens that > may not > be in each other's tanks. Keep an eye on all the fish for any signs of > bacteria/parasite issues. > > When doing weekly PWC's, do similar percentages on each tank and then ALSO > do a 1G cross transfer after each weekly PWC and maybe one or two more 1G > cross transfers during the week. This will keep the tanks as close to > identical and your testing for pH, GH, KH and any other test will confirm > that the two tanks are staying nearly identical. > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> (Links to any articles referenced > in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under > Labels and > also under Archives by Year, Month) > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On > Behalf Of N Taweel > Sent: Saturday, November 21, 2009 2:17 AM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Subject: [AquaticLife] Job needed for a young algae eater > > Hi, > Can you repetitively transfer a small (<2") Chinese Alge Eater between two > well mentained tanks (6G and 20G) safely without putting him into stress? > I'm thinking of putting him in the 6G for two days amonth or so to > clean the > algae properly, he seems to be doing a better job than I am about > this! and > putting a new CAE in the 6G seems unfair for him (small water volume). > P.S: I'm aware of how to acclimate before transferring from one tank > to the > other. > What do you think? > > Noura > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 44642	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 11/21/2009
Subject: Re: Job needed for a young algae eater

Good idea Donna. I found a seller on aquabid that can ship internationally too. Check out this seller Noura; http://www.aquabid.com/cgi-bin/auction/auction.cgi?fwsnails&1259159043 Amber Donna Ransome wrote: > > What about a freshwater nerite? > > _____ > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On > Behalf Of Lenny V. aka GoldLenny > Sent: Saturday, November 21, 2009 1:08 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: Job needed for a young algae eater > > A Mystery Snail is about the only thing that would work. Amber says > they do > not eat as much algae as they mature, compared to when they are still > young > so as they mature and stop eating as much algae, you could move it to your > larger tank(s) and get a new baby/juvi Mystery Snail for the 6G. Also, put > up something to block sunlight from the window and that will prevent a LOT > of the algae from happening in the first place. > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>> blogspot.com > (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right > side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com > [mailto:AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > yahoogroups.com] > On > Behalf Of N Taweel > Sent: Saturday, November 21, 2009 6:46 AM > To: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Job needed for a young algae eater > > That process of making the two tanks' water identical sounds like a LOT of > work for a busy mom of two. I barely can keep up with the needs of my > tanks > to stay well mentained. > > So I'm thinking of this: is there a suitable alge eater to live in a 6G > Goupy fry tank? There isn't excessive growth of alge, only the green ones > all over the glass due to the nearby window's light, which is not a pretty > sight, and I can't remove them all by using the magnet scrubber (sp?). > > Noura > > ------ Original Message ----- > Re: Job needed for a young algae eater > Posted by: "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" GoldLenny@gmail. > <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com> com goldlenny_blogspot > > Sat Nov 21, 2009 1:19 am (PST) > > If you keep the water parameters the same in both tanks by doing regular > cross partial water changes between the two tanks, that would be best > so you > do not even have to worry about doing acclimation. > > I know (many are thinking NOOOOO!!!), but... while it's usually not > best to > mix the water from different tanks as it could transfer pathogens, if > you're > going to be moving a fish back and forth, that act carries the same > risk of > pathogen transfer so you might as well make both tank's water identical so > it's less stress on the fish. If the fish does not get as stressed, it's > less likely to have immune system issues which makes it less likely to > being > infected by any pathogens (which are almost always present anyhow). > > All that said, start doing small water transfers, maybe 1G from the 6G > into > the 20G and vice versa, EACH DAY, between the two tanks so the fish will > slowly acclimate in both tanks, to the same water parameters. This > will also > give the fishes a chance to build up immunity to any pathogens that > may not > be in each other's tanks. Keep an eye on all the fish for any signs of > bacteria/parasite issues. > > When doing weekly PWC's, do similar percentages on each tank and then ALSO > do a 1G cross transfer after each weekly PWC and maybe one or two more 1G > cross transfers during the week. This will keep the tanks as close to > identical and your testing for pH, GH, KH and any other test will confirm > that the two tanks are staying nearly identical. > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>> blogspot.com > (Links to any articles referenced > in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under > Labels and > also under Archives by Year, Month) > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com > [mailto:AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > yahoogroups.com] > On > Behalf Of N Taweel > Sent: Saturday, November 21, 2009 2:17 AM > To: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com > Subject: [AquaticLife] Job needed for a young algae eater > > Hi, > Can you repetitively transfer a small (<2") Chinese Alge Eater between two > well mentained tanks (6G and 20G) safely without putting him into stress? > I'm thinking of putting him in the 6G for two days amonth or so to > clean the > algae properly, he seems to be doing a better job than I am about > this! and > putting a new CAE in the 6G seems unfair for him (small water volume). > P.S: I'm aware of how to acclimate before transferring from one tank > to the > other. > What do you think? > > Noura > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 44643	From: kelleyl	Date: 11/21/2009
Subject: Depressed Oscar with hole in the head

Hi. I have a Oscar about 3 or 4 years old I think. I have had him almost a year and a half. He is the most depressed fish I have ever seen. He has a tiny white dot one in eye (maybe blind?). He has been this way since we got him. He was like this when we got him. The former owners said he started acting depressed and his growth slowed when they put him in his own tank-seperate from the Oscar he grew up with. I have treated him multiple times for hole in the head. Currently he is on Metronidazol 2 500mg tabs every other day for 6 days with a water change before each treatment. He is in a 40 gal tank he has 2 spall plecos he came with. He mostly only eats plecos Hikari algae wafers most of the time. He does like crickets, some bugs and a worm once in awhile. He has Hikari CichlidGold He doesn't eat like he should. Does anyone have suggestions? I have a happy Oscar about 11 years old and she got really sick and almost died nearly 2 years ago from hole in the head weeks and weeks of treatment and she fully recovered she isa big girl and I have had her most of her life- she became so trusting of me when she was too sick to swim and laid on her side. Now she is so docile with my husband and I. I just want the other fish to be happy too. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 44644	From: Donna Ransome	Date: 11/21/2009
Subject: Re: Job needed for a young algae eater

They are much easier to get overseas, especially UK. It's here that they are hard to get. I love mine. You DO have to have a constant supply of green soft algae for them though...they will not eat fish food. They starve easily. -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Amber Berglund Sent: Saturday, November 21, 2009 4:27 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: Job needed for a young algae eater Good idea Donna. I found a seller on aquabid that can ship internationally too. Check out this seller Noura; http://www.aquabid.com/cgi-bin/auction/auction.cgi?fwsnails&1259159043 Amber Donna Ransome wrote: > > What about a freshwater nerite? > > _____ > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On > Behalf Of Lenny V. aka GoldLenny > Sent: Saturday, November 21, 2009 1:08 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: Job needed for a young algae eater > > A Mystery Snail is about the only thing that would work. Amber says > they do > not eat as much algae as they mature, compared to when they are still > young > so as they mature and stop eating as much algae, you could move it to your > larger tank(s) and get a new baby/juvi Mystery Snail for the 6G. Also, put > up something to block sunlight from the window and that will prevent a LOT > of the algae from happening in the first place. > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>> blogspot.com > (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right > side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com > [mailto:AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > yahoogroups.com] > On > Behalf Of N Taweel > Sent: Saturday, November 21, 2009 6:46 AM > To: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Job needed for a young algae eater > > That process of making the two tanks' water identical sounds like a LOT of > work for a busy mom of two. I barely can keep up with the needs of my > tanks > to stay well mentained. > > So I'm thinking of this: is there a suitable alge eater to live in a 6G > Goupy fry tank? There isn't excessive growth of alge, only the green ones > all over the glass due to the nearby window's light, which is not a pretty > sight, and I can't remove them all by using the magnet scrubber (sp?). > > Noura > > ------ Original Message ----- > Re: Job needed for a young algae eater > Posted by: "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" GoldLenny@gmail. > <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com> com goldlenny_blogspot > > Sat Nov 21, 2009 1:19 am (PST) > > If you keep the water parameters the same in both tanks by doing regular > cross partial water changes between the two tanks, that would be best > so you > do not even have to worry about doing acclimation. > > I know (many are thinking NOOOOO!!!), but... while it's usually not > best to > mix the water from different tanks as it could transfer pathogens, if > you're > going to be moving a fish back and forth, that act carries the same > risk of > pathogen transfer so you might as well make both tank's water identical so > it's less stress on the fish. If the fish does not get as stressed, it's > less likely to have immune system issues which makes it less likely to > being > infected by any pathogens (which are almost always present anyhow). > > All that said, start doing small water transfers, maybe 1G from the 6G > into > the 20G and vice versa, EACH DAY, between the two tanks so the fish will > slowly acclimate in both tanks, to the same water parameters. This > will also > give the fishes a chance to build up immunity to any pathogens that > may not > be in each other's tanks. Keep an eye on all the fish for any signs of > bacteria/parasite issues. > > When doing weekly PWC's, do similar percentages on each tank and then ALSO > do a 1G cross transfer after each weekly PWC and maybe one or two more 1G > cross transfers during the week. This will keep the tanks as close to > identical and your testing for pH, GH, KH and any other test will confirm > that the two tanks are staying nearly identical. > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>> blogspot.com > (Links to any articles referenced > in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under > Labels and > also under Archives by Year, Month) > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com > [mailto:AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > yahoogroups.com] > On > Behalf Of N Taweel > Sent: Saturday, November 21, 2009 2:17 AM > To: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com > Subject: [AquaticLife] Job needed for a young algae eater > > Hi, > Can you repetitively transfer a small (<2") Chinese Alge Eater between two > well mentained tanks (6G and 20G) safely without putting him into stress? > I'm thinking of putting him in the 6G for two days amonth or so to > clean the > algae properly, he seems to be doing a better job than I am about > this! and > putting a new CAE in the 6G seems unfair for him (small water volume). > P.S: I'm aware of how to acclimate before transferring from one tank > to the > other. > What do you think? > > Noura > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > ------------------------------------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the home page. Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com to receive the digest, which includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com for the No E-Mail option where you will still be able to read messages on the group and post replies. Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com to receive individual e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 44645	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 11/21/2009
Subject: Re: Depressed Oscar with hole in the head

Well for one thing you should get him a much bigger tank, that should make him a lot happier. I recommend a 75 gallon at least (if not bigger). In such a small tank you would have to do a lot of filter cleaning and water changes to keep him healthy and happy, that is the biggest cause of health issues (keeping such a large fish in a small tank, especially with other fish is bound to kill either him or the other fish at some point). How big is your oscar at this point? I would suggest switching his pellets if he doesn't eat them, perhaps try making your own home made Jello food recipe with left over fish foods and frozen seafood? If you don't have time for that then you might want to look at getting some frozen foods from your LFS, such as brine shrimp, mysis shrimp, and blood worms (there are more kinds you can buy, but those are the ones my LFS carries). Amber kelleyl wrote: > > > Hi. I have a Oscar about 3 or 4 years old I think. I have had him > almost a year and a half. He is the most depressed fish I have ever > seen. He has a tiny white dot one in eye (maybe blind?). He has been > this way since we got him. He was like this when we got him. The > former owners said he started acting depressed and his growth slowed > when they put him in his own tank-seperate from the Oscar he grew up > with. I have treated him multiple times for hole in the head. > Currently he is on Metronidazol 2 500mg tabs every other day for 6 days > with a water change before each treatment. He is in a 40 gal tank he > has 2 spall plecos he came with. He mostly only eats plecos Hikari > algae wafers most of the time. He does like crickets, some bugs and a > worm once in awhile. He has Hikari CichlidGold He doesn't eat like > he should. Does anyone have suggestions? I have a happy Oscar about 11 > years old and she got really sick and almost died nearly 2 years ago > from hole in the head weeks and weeks of treatment and she fully > recovered she isa big girl and I have had her most of her life- she > became so trusting of me when she was too sick to swim and laid on her > side. Now she is so docile with my husband and I. I just want the > other fish to be happy too. > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 44646	From: sevenspringss@wmconnect.com	Date: 11/21/2009
Subject: Re: Job needed for a young algae eater

HOLDING TANK (???), and THEN into the 6G tank? I guess I missed something in the original post. Oops, in going back to Noura's original post, I see no mention of a third tank although as \\Steve// points out -- snails (of the right kind) may be obtained -- to instead replace/trade-in this Chinese Algae Eater (which will outgrow the 20G), as a method of clearing the algae. Ray [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 44647	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 11/21/2009
Subject: Re: Job needed for a young algae eater

Well, if she wasn't going to have both tanks with identical or nearly identical water parameters, there would need to be a holding tank or bucket or something used for acclimating the fish between the two tanks water parameters. I think this is moot as I believe Noura has decided against this idea of swapping the algae eater back and forth between the two tanks. I concur, if it's a CAE, that it should be replaced, maybe with a Clown Pleco, for the 20G, which only grows to 3" to 5" depending on the actual species acquired and whether it's a female or male. A snail or snails would probably be best for the 6G. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of sevenspringss@... Sent: Sunday, November 22, 2009 12:42 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Job needed for a young algae eater HOLDING TANK (???), and THEN into the 6G tank? I guess I missed something in the original post. Oops, in going back to Noura's original post, I see no mention of a third tank although as \\Steve// points out -- snails (of the right kind) may be obtained -- to instead replace/trade-in this Chinese Algae Eater (which will outgrow the 20G), as a method of clearing the algae. Ray

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 44648	From: sevenspringss@wmconnect.com	Date: 11/21/2009
Subject: Re: Depressed Oscar with hole in the head

Two suggestions: (1) Contact the original owner in attempts to obtain the other Oscar he grew up with, and (2) As this is the second Oscar under your care to have contracted H-I-T-H disease/syndrome, provide fresher, more nitrate-free water (by performing more frequent PWC's as an ongoing maintenance regimen) since these fish do not appreciate higher nitrate concentrations. Ray [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 44649	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 11/22/2009
Subject: Paper: STANDARD OF CARE: PET FISH

This was a paper presented at the Michigan Veterinary Conference, January 26, 2008. It will be of interest to those who may wish to follow a professional career involving fishkeeping, though it is mainly aimed at veterinarians. http://www.michvma.org/documents/MVC%20Proceedings%202008/Lewbart%207.pdf http://tinyurl.com/yayo9fg Introduction The keeping of fish as pets is a hobby with a long history. In recent years, particularly during the past decade, ornamental pond fish including koi and goldfish have become increasingly popular in various parts of the world. In fact, more pet fish are kept as pets in the United States than any other single group of animals including dogs, cats, small mammals, birds, and reptiles (AVMA, 1997; PIJAC, 1997). The hobby has also become more sophisticated in recent years and a growing number of veterinarians are gaining clinical experience with pet fish. Until the 1980's, except in rare instances, most of the medical care and husbandry practices were performed by the hobbyists themselves or with the help of the local pet store clerk or aquarium maintenance person. Many of these people are very knowledgeable and conscientious but there are no minimal training standards as there are in the veterinary profession. Additionally, we as veterinarians understand the principles of medicine, surgery, and animal husbandry. The same fundamental disciplines such as critical care, microbiology, parasitology, nutrition, pathology, and surgery that are applied to terrestrial animals can be applied to pet fish. With regards to the Standard of Care (SOC) for this group of animals, koi, goldfish, and all commonly kept freshwater and marine bony fishes should be included. Sharks and other elasmobranchs, while occasionally kept in the home aquarium, are more frequently managed by aquarium and zoo veterinarians. As our knowledge of fish diseases, therapeutics and water quality increase, more and more veterinarians will be qualified to responsibly work with these animals. Peer-reviewed articles on the clinical management of pet fish issues now appear in many veterinary journals. Nearly every major veterinary conference includes fish medicine in the program and several veterinary schools now offer continuing education courses on this subject. . . . FWIW, I found this paper, along with a lot of other stuff, using a search engine I just ran across <http://www.ebook-seek-engine.com/> , which is powered by Google. It just searches for PDF files, it seems. \\Steve//

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 44650	From: Dora Smith	Date: 11/22/2009
Subject: Re: Paper: STANDARD OF CARE: PET FISH

Equipment for the hospitalized fish. Fish anesthesia, for when it needs surgery. LOL! Yours, Dora Smith Austin, TX tiggernut24@... ----- Original Message ----- From: "Steve Szabo" <steve@...> To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Sunday, November 22, 2009 9:02 AM Subject: [AquaticLife] Paper: STANDARD OF CARE: PET FISH This was a paper presented at the Michigan Veterinary Conference, January 26, 2008. It will be of interest to those who may wish to follow a professional career involving fishkeeping, though it is mainly aimed at veterinarians. http://www.michvma.org/documents/MVC%20Proceedings%202008/Lewbart%207.pdf http://tinyurl.com/yayo9fg Introduction The keeping of fish as pets is a hobby with a long history. In recent years, particularly during the past decade, ornamental pond fish including koi and goldfish have become increasingly popular in various parts of the world. In fact, more pet fish are kept as pets in the United States than any other single group of animals including dogs, cats, small mammals, birds, and reptiles (AVMA, 1997; PIJAC, 1997). The hobby has also become more sophisticated in recent years and a growing number of veterinarians are gaining clinical experience with pet fish. Until the 1980's, except in rare instances, most of the medical care and husbandry practices were performed by the hobbyists themselves or with the help of the local pet store clerk or aquarium maintenance person. Many of these people are very knowledgeable and conscientious but there are no minimal training standards as there are in the veterinary profession. Additionally, we as veterinarians understand the principles of medicine, surgery, and animal husbandry. The same fundamental disciplines such as critical care, microbiology, parasitology, nutrition, pathology, and surgery that are applied to terrestrial animals can be applied to pet fish. With regards to the Standard of Care (SOC) for this group of animals, koi, goldfish, and all commonly kept freshwater and marine bony fishes should be included. Sharks and other elasmobranchs, while occasionally kept in the home aquarium, are more frequently managed by aquarium and zoo veterinarians. As our knowledge of fish diseases, therapeutics and water quality increase, more and more veterinarians will be qualified to responsibly work with these animals. Peer-reviewed articles on the clinical management of pet fish issues now appear in many veterinary journals. Nearly every major veterinary conference includes fish medicine in the program and several veterinary schools now offer continuing education courses on this subject. . . . FWIW, I found this paper, along with a lot of other stuff, using a search engine I just ran across <http://www.ebook-seek-engine.com/> , which is powered by Google. It just searches for PDF files, it seems. \\Steve// ------------------------------------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the home page. Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com to receive the digest, which includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com for the No E-Mail option where you will still be able to read messages on the group and post replies. Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com to receive individual e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 44651	From: kelleyl	Date: 11/22/2009
Subject: Re: Depressed Oscar with hole in the head

Actually HITH is very common in angels and studies have shown that it is something the can carry. We do pwc every 2-3 weeks (quite a job with just a python but it works. I took in the fish because the guy offered him on free cycle and I couldn't imagine his fate otherwise. The man said his adult daughter whom I have never met and don't even know her name lived in Michigan or Indiana? He said she was taking the other one. I had a tank available and took him in. I tried contacting the man through his email as recently as a month ago- still no answer. I just wanted to give him an update. I have been keeping fish for about eleven years and have 11 tanks (8) 40 gallon and (1) 30 gallon, and also 2 table top tanks. I have also sold some fish at the auction that breed 3x's so far. I have mostly cichlids and a few live barers. I was just hoping that someone would have experience in the Oscar's issues and illness aside from what I have read. Most people I have talked to in the last 2 years say that their fish always die, with the disease never having been cured. Oh the fish we are discussing is maybe 10 " from the tip of his nose to the end of his tail. Our other oscar is 13 or 14 inches. She knows a few "tricks". She is healthy as ever. Thanks fors your input (you too Amber) --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, sevenspringss@... wrote: > > Two suggestions: (1) Contact the original owner in attempts to obtain the > other Oscar he grew up with, and (2) As this is the second Oscar under your > care to have contracted H-I-T-H disease/syndrome, provide fresher, more > nitrate-free water (by performing more frequent PWC's as an ongoing maintenance > regimen) since these fish do not appreciate higher nitrate concentrations. > Ray > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 44652	From: noura_taweel	Date: 11/22/2009
Subject: Re: Job needed for a young algae eater

The method I use to tranfer my CAE between the two tanks, is holding him in a 4" diameter box, filled with about 150ml from the 20G tank's water,and then I add 30-40 ml every 10-15 minutes from the 6G all while floating the plastic container in the 6G to mentain the temperature. then I finally put the CAE in the 6G, which contains Goupy fry, two live plants, and a few dozens of MTS snails. The 6G is NOT exposed to sunlight, only daylight coming through a semi-transparent curtain. The algae is only the green kind growing on the glass making an unpleasant sight of the -otherwise- beautiful tiny tank. Scrubbing the algae doesn't remove them from all corners and places. The problem now, is that I don't have many choices in finding snails here in Syria, the LFS rarely even sell them. I was thinking, do you think I can buy a new BABY Chinese Algae Eater and keep him in the 6G until he outgrows it, then take him back to the LFS? would that be a good idea in the absence of the suitable snails and Clown Plecos "which I don't recall seeing at all in the LFSs here"? I would also mention that there aren't algae wafers here. Noura-Syria --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, sevenspringss@... wrote: > > HOLDING TANK (???), and THEN into the 6G tank? I guess I missed something > in the original post. Oops, in going back to Noura's original post, I see > no mention of a third tank although as \\Steve// points out -- snails (of the > right kind) may be obtained -- to instead replace/trade-in this Chinese > Algae Eater (which will outgrow the 20G), as a method of clearing the algae. > Ray > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 44653	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 11/22/2009
Subject: Re: Depressed Oscar with hole in the head

Do you test your nitrates regularly? I'd think that one PWC every 2-3 is not nearly enough to keep the nitrates down unless you have a heavily planted tank. Amber kelleyl wrote: > > Actually HITH is very common in angels and studies have shown that it > is something the can carry. We do pwc every 2-3 weeks (quite a job > with just a python but it works. I took in the fish because the guy > offered him on free cycle and I couldn't imagine his fate otherwise. > The man said his adult daughter whom I have never met and don't even > know her name lived in Michigan or Indiana? He said she was taking the > other one. I had a tank available and took him in. I tried contacting > the man through his email as recently as a month ago- still no answer. > I just wanted to give him an update. I have been keeping fish for > about eleven years and have 11 tanks (8) 40 gallon and (1) 30 gallon, > and also 2 table top tanks. I have also sold some fish at the auction > that breed 3x's so far. I have mostly cichlids and a few live barers. > I was just hoping that someone would have experience in the Oscar's > issues and illness aside from what I have read. Most people I have > talked to in the last 2 years say that their fish always die, with the > disease never having been cured. Oh the fish we are discussing is > maybe 10 " from the tip of his nose to the end of his tail. Our other > oscar is 13 or 14 inches. She knows a few "tricks". She is healthy as > ever. Thanks fors your input (you too Amber) > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>, sevenspringss@... wrote: > > > > Two suggestions: (1) Contact the original owner in attempts to > obtain the > > other Oscar he grew up with, and (2) As this is the second Oscar > under your > > care to have contracted H-I-T-H disease/syndrome, provide fresher, more > > nitrate-free water (by performing more frequent PWC's as an ongoing > maintenance > > regimen) since these fish do not appreciate higher nitrate > concentrations. > > Ray > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 44654	From: William M	Date: 11/22/2009
Subject: Re: Depressed Oscar with hole in the head

I have taken in large Oscars in th past with HITH disease and cured them by putting them in at least 55 gallon tanks and doing daily 25% plus water changes. A fish that lives in that small a tank is like living in a closet with out a working toilet, The only way to "flush the toilet" is to do a water change. On my 13 aquariums that I have set up and running, I do weekly 25% plus water changes.The reason that he stopped growing is that he started living in polluted water (by you not doing more water changes. Yes you might cure him with medications but if you do not cure the problem (too small a tank with out enough water changes) he will contract it again. God luck with him and keep us informed of how he is doing. --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "kelleyl" <kid_collector_06@...> wrote: > > > Hi. I have a Oscar about 3 or 4 years old I think. I have had him > almost a year and a half. He is the most depressed fish I have ever > seen. He has a tiny white dot one in eye (maybe blind?). He has been > this way since we got him. He was like this when we got him. The > former owners said he started acting depressed and his growth slowed > when they put him in his own tank-seperate from the Oscar he grew up > with. I have treated him multiple times for hole in the head. > Currently he is on Metronidazol 2 500mg tabs every other day for 6 days > with a water change before each treatment. He is in a 40 gal tank he > has 2 spall plecos he came with. He mostly only eats plecos Hikari > algae wafers most of the time. He does like crickets, some bugs and a > worm once in awhile. He has Hikari CichlidGold He doesn't eat like > he should. Does anyone have suggestions? I have a happy Oscar about 11 > years old and she got really sick and almost died nearly 2 years ago > from hole in the head weeks and weeks of treatment and she fully > recovered she isa big girl and I have had her most of her life- she > became so trusting of me when she was too sick to swim and laid on her > side. Now she is so docile with my husband and I. I just want the > other fish to be happy too. > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 44655	From: William M	Date: 11/22/2009
Subject: Re: Job needed for a young algae eater

Another fish to consider (if they have them is the otto cat or even the bushymouth plecos. The otto cats only get to about 1 & 1/2 inches long whereas the bushymouth plecos can get to be up to 6 inches long depending on species. Or you might even try a molly as they will eat algae to a certain degree. --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "noura_taweel" <n-taweel@...> wrote: > > The method I use to tranfer my CAE between the two tanks, is holding him in a 4" diameter box, filled with about 150ml from the 20G tank's water,and then I add 30-40 ml every 10-15 minutes from the 6G all while floating the plastic container in the 6G to mentain the temperature. then I finally put the CAE in the 6G, which contains Goupy fry, two live plants, and a few dozens of MTS snails. The 6G is NOT exposed to sunlight, only daylight coming through a semi-transparent curtain. The algae is only the green kind growing on the glass making an unpleasant sight of the -otherwise- beautiful tiny tank. Scrubbing the algae doesn't remove them from all corners and places. > The problem now, is that I don't have many choices in finding snails here in Syria, the LFS rarely even sell them. > I was thinking, do you think I can buy a new BABY Chinese Algae Eater and keep him in the 6G until he outgrows it, then take him back to the LFS? would that be a good idea in the absence of the suitable snails and Clown Plecos "which I don't recall seeing at all in the LFSs here"? I would also mention that there aren't algae wafers here. > > Noura-Syria > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, sevenspringss@ wrote: > > > > HOLDING TANK (???), and THEN into the 6G tank? I guess I missed something > > in the original post. Oops, in going back to Noura's original post, I see > > no mention of a third tank although as \\Steve// points out -- snails (of the > > right kind) may be obtained -- to instead replace/trade-in this Chinese > > Algae Eater (which will outgrow the 20G), as a method of clearing the algae. > > Ray > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 44656	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 11/23/2009
Subject: Re: Job needed for a young algae eater

Yes, Oto's are small but they are also shoaling fish so they should be kept in groups of five or more so their actual bioload ends up becoming more than that of a 3" Clown Pleco. Now... something else I just thought about since this is just for a guppy fry tank... Cherry Shrimp would also be VERY GOOD for the job and they would likely breed as well so depending on what kind of fish are in the 20G, they might also be utilized in the 20G and get rid of the CAE. The other option, if Cherry Shrimp are not available (and if the algae eating snails are not available) would be trading in the larger CAE for two juvi CAE's and only plan on keeping them for six months at a time and then trading them in on two juvi's again. Of course, the CAE in the 6G might run out of algae so you might have to scrape some off of the 20G from time to time and put it into the 6G to supplement. I do this with my Cherry Shrimp tank since it's spotless, so I scrape some algae off of my 65G Goldfish tank, into a waiting net, and then add that to the Cherry Shrimp tank. I'll also move a decoration, silk plant or clay pot from the 65G Goldfish tank into the Cherry Shrimp tank from time to time for feeding the shrimp and having them clean the decoration. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of William M Sent: Sunday, November 22, 2009 11:22 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Job needed for a young algae eater Another fish to consider (if they have them is the otto cat or even the bushymouth plecos. The otto cats only get to about 1 & 1/2 inches long whereas the bushymouth plecos can get to be up to 6 inches long depending on species. Or you might even try a molly as they will eat algae to a certain degree. --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "noura_taweel" <n-taweel@...> wrote: > > The method I use to tranfer my CAE between the two tanks, is holding him in a 4" diameter box, filled with about 150ml from the 20G tank's water,and then I add 30-40 ml every 10-15 minutes from the 6G all while floating the plastic container in the 6G to mentain the temperature. then I finally put the CAE in the 6G, which contains Goupy fry, two live plants, and a few dozens of MTS snails. The 6G is NOT exposed to sunlight, only daylight coming through a semi-transparent curtain. The algae is only the green kind growing on the glass making an unpleasant sight of the -otherwise- beautiful tiny tank. Scrubbing the algae doesn't remove them from all corners and places. > The problem now, is that I don't have many choices in finding snails here in Syria, the LFS rarely even sell them. > I was thinking, do you think I can buy a new BABY Chinese Algae Eater and keep him in the 6G until he outgrows it, then take him back to the LFS? would that be a good idea in the absence of the suitable snails and Clown Plecos "which I don't recall seeing at all in the LFSs here"? I would also mention that there aren't algae wafers here. > > Noura-Syria > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, sevenspringss@ wrote: > > > > HOLDING TANK (???), and THEN into the 6G tank? I guess I missed > > something in the original post. Oops, in going back to Noura's > > original post, I see no mention of a third tank although as > > \\Steve// points out -- snails (of the right kind) may be obtained > > -- to instead replace/trade-in this Chinese Algae Eater (which will outgrow the 20G), as a method of clearing the algae. > > Ray

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 44657	From: sevenspringss@wmconnect.com	Date: 11/23/2009
Subject: Re: Depressed Oscar with hole in the head

Kelly, Your reference to Angelfish, and comment on their propensity for carrying HITH is duly noted. I fail to see the connection between Angelfish and the Oscars we are dicussing here though. I would like to point out however, while we are on this subject (HITH) that more recently it is the consensus that the internal Hexamita that you are familiar with previously known as the "HITH" disease that Angelfish carry is no longer associated with the external manifestation of the HITH disease that some other Cichlids (quite commonly, Oscars) contract. It is now believed that these two diseases, once thought to have a direct association with each other as one disease, is in actuality, two separate and distinct diseases having no connection. Angelfish are not known to contract HITH -- at least not the same HITH that you seem to be more familiar with as pitting and erosion about the head area and/or including the lateral line. While it may be possible for any Cichlid, including Angelfish, to contract this external form, I can't say that I've seen this manifestation in Angelfish in the 60 years I've kept them. As for the internal Heximita protozoan, not only is it very common that Angelfish CAN carry this protozoan, but almost all Angelfish DO carry this protozoan in symbiosis -- although the normal immune system in healthy Angelfish keeps this parasite in check. It is only when the fish get overly stressed that their then weakened immune system allows it to take over as a more progressive disease, often overwhelming the fish. Stress too, brings on the external manifestation of Hole-In-The Head as seen in Oscars as pit marks throughout the head area. This stress is most often the result of higher concentrations of nitrate, which occurs when it is allowed to build up through the lack of sufficient partial water changing. As we know, plants are not tolerated by Oscars; at least not the rooted types, and most hobbyists do not consider keeping Hornwort or such with these fish to help consume these nitrates. I commend you for rescuing this Oscar, and find it unfortunate that you hadn't been able to obtain its conspecific tankmate. I am not here to belittle your maintenance methods, but would like to add that while you haven't indicated the quantity of the water you change at those times, partial water changes every 2 to 3 weeks (especially, 3 weeks) are just not enough to remove enough nitrate from this 10" Oscar's water column in its 40 gallon (hopefully) tank. While I realize that you may feel changing water is work, even with the benefit of a Python, you need to consider doing PWC's every week, of at least 25%; or possibly up to 33%, depending on how your tests for this organic waste proves out -- and this is for a healthy Oscar. HITH syndromed Oscars need somewhat larger and/or more frequent PWC's to ensure as near complete removal of all nitrates as possible, at all times. Noticing that 40 gallon tanks are the largest you have, I would trust that you've decided to house this fish in one of these -- which, BTW, could use larger housing soon. As you haven't stated anything larger in your aquarium sizes, I do need to point out that a 40 gallon tank is way too small for your other (13" -- 14") Oscar. You should consider yourself fortunate in not having your larger Oscar contracting HITH, but before it does, I would consider larger quarters for this fish in the very near future. First of all, it's a real pity that most people you have talked to about this subject have had their Oscar contracting HITH, and secondly, it's a real shame that it's always ended in the deaths of their fish -- especially when they didn't need to. The BEST thing you can do for an Oscar with HITH disease/syndrome is to provide it with as much PWCing as you can, as often as you can. Nitrate-free aquarium water will heal up most HITH-resultant pitting. Deeper erosions may not completely heal over without leaving some scarring, but they will heal over (you may still see some depressions). This method of treating has been proven most effective -- even more so than medications, as this pitting is becoming known as resulting from the environment rather than from a pathogen. I do notice that with your 11 years experience, and your 11 tanks, that your PWCing regimen is quite a job, still when using a Python, which I can't quite understand as that apparatus is doing all the work. Granted, it will take time -- and use of tap water to draw your aquarium water down -- especially if needing to draw it "uphill" rather than allowing it to syphon. For faster water movement and more conservative use of your tap water, you may want to consider a set of 3/4" garden hoses and an electric water pump to move your water more efficiently if that would help ease the "job." Many of us older hobbyists being in fish keeping for longer periods of time may average up to 100 tanks, and yet we try to make maintenance as easy as we can on ourselves -- but a Python for a few tanks like this shouldn't really be seen as a burden. Yes, many larger (and more mellow) New World Cichlids (when not too busy showing their aggression) such as Oscars are smart enough to learn and perform "tricks." They're often enjoyed by their keeper for their seemingly intelligent behavior. Your large one appears to fit right into this category, and I can only imagine the fun it is to watch it. I've had up to six pairs of them in my hatchery back in the 1960's before Rift Lake Cichlids became popular, seriously reducing the demand for their offspring, but the fun in watching them has not diminished. Ray [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 44658	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 11/23/2009
Subject: 'Aquascaping' in the new age of aquarium

Actually a review of sorts of a shop in San Francisco. http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/c/a/2009/11/21/HORN1AD16F.DTL&t ype=homeandgarden http://tinyurl.com/yerw36p 'Aquascaping' in the new age of aquarium Glen Martin, Special to The Chronicle Sunday, November 22, 2009 Aquariums have long inhabited the uneasy terrain between obsessive avocation and kitschy interior decoration. Sure, they're fine for the introverted adolescent with a bent for the natural sciences, and they're a standard design element in many restaurants. In popular action films, they're often employed as a central feature in the lairs of drug lords or villainous corporate CEOs - perhaps because they explode so spectacularly when stitched with gunfire. Images Steven Lo, seen here, and his brother George emphasize "a...Steven Lo and his brother George emphasize "aquascaping,"...Driftwood and plants are arranged with a Zen sensibility ... View More Images For most of us, though, aquariums are of limited interest. In a standard setup, the fish simply swim around and around, pursuing their piscine interests as best they can in a confined space. They are attractive, certainly, and there is something soothing about watching them drift about; but let's face it, the anodyne quickly turns into the stultifying. Plus, there are some genuine environmental concerns about saltwater aquariums: Specimens are often obtained in the developing world by impoverished collectors who use cyanide to stun reef fish. The poison kills as often as it incapacitates, and is fatal to large areas of coral as well. But walk into Aqua Forest Aquarium, a shop on Fillmore Street near Japantown, and the old assumptions fall away. As its name implies, Aqua Forest doesn't sell aquariums so much as self-contained aquatic ecosystems. Looking into one of tanks is like peering into a triple-canopy rain forest: varying levels of vegetation . . . \\Steve//

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 44659	From: Deenerz@aol.com	Date: 11/23/2009
Subject: Re: 'Aquascaping' in the new age of aquarium

Hi Steve, I was there last week. Their shop is very NICE. A few years ago the brothers came and did a presentation at one of my local fish clubs. It took me months to get them booked to come and speak. I like to take friends to their shop and then make about a ten minute drive to a hole in the wall quasi subterranean shop called Ocean Aquarium. Despite the name "Ocean" Justin and his wife keep no salt water creatures. His shop is on the complete opposite end of the spectrum from Aqua Forest. Aqua forest is ultra spartan and high tech and Ocean is a mish mash of different sized tanks and uneven racks and jars of fish in a haphazard array with non matching light fixtures and filters. Many home made filters and re purposed aquaria parts are abundant. Upside down hanging water bottles weighted down and dosed with co2 are visible in many tanks. I like to show these two stores back to back so new aquarists stunned by the beauty in Aqua Forest can see they do not need hundred dollar to several hundred dollar systems to achieve a gorgeous planted aquarium. The tanks at Ocean are overflowing with an abundance of plants and fish. I took Paul Loiselle there several years ago and he loved the place. Most people who go there do as well. If you are ever in the Bay Area give me a shout and I will take you to both places, they are a real treat! -Mike -----Original Message----- From: Steve Szabo <steve@...> To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Mon, Nov 23, 2009 2:27 am Subject: [AquaticLife] 'Aquascaping' in the new age of aquarium   Actually a review of sorts of a shop in San Francisco. http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/c/a/2009/11/21/HORN1AD16F.DTL&t ype=homeandgarden http://tinyurl.com/yerw36p 'Aquascaping' in the new age of aquarium Glen Martin, Special to The Chronicle Sunday, November 22, 2009 Aquariums have long inhabited the uneasy terrain between obsessive avocation and kitschy interior decoration. Sure, they're fine for the introverted adolescent with a bent for the natural sciences, and they're a standard design element in many restaurants. In popular action films, they're often employed as a central feature in the lairs of drug lords or villainous corporate CEOs - perhaps because they explode so spectacularly when stitched with gunfire. Images Steven Lo, seen here, and his brother George emphasize "a...Steven Lo and his brother George emphasize "aquascaping,"...Driftwood and plants are arranged with a Zen sensibility ... View More Images For most of us, though, aquariums are of limited interest. In a standard setup, the fish simply swim around and around, pursuing their piscine interests as best they can in a confined space. They are attractive, certainly, and there is something soothing about watching them drift about; but let's face it, the anodyne quickly turns into the stultifying. Plus, there are some genuine environmental concerns about saltwater aquariums: Specimens are often obtained in the developing world by impoverished collectors who use cyanide to stun reef fish. The poison kills as often as it incapacitates, and is fatal to large areas of coral as well. But walk into Aqua Forest Aquarium, a shop on Fillmore Street near Japantown, and the old assumptions fall away. As its name implies, Aqua Forest doesn't sell aquariums so much as self-contained aquatic ecosystems. Looking into one of tanks is like peering into a triple-canopy rain forest: varying levels of vegetation . . . \\Steve//

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 44660	From: Donna Ransome	Date: 11/23/2009
Subject: Re: 'Aquascaping' in the new age of aquarium

Ouch obsessive avocation .kitschy décor .introverted adolescent _____ From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Steve Szabo Sent: Monday, November 23, 2009 5:27 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] 'Aquascaping' in the new age of aquarium Actually a review of sorts of a shop in San Francisco. http://www.sfgate. <http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/c/a/2009/11/21/HORN1AD16F.DTL& t> com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/c/a/2009/11/21/HORN1AD16F.DTL&t ype=homeandgarden http://tinyurl. <http://tinyurl.com/yerw36p> com/yerw36p 'Aquascaping' in the new age of aquarium Glen Martin, Special to The Chronicle Sunday, November 22, 2009 Aquariums have long inhabited the uneasy terrain between obsessive avocation and kitschy interior decoration. Sure, they're fine for the introverted adolescent with a bent for the natural sciences, and they're a standard design element in many restaurants. In popular action films, they're often employed as a central feature in the lairs of drug lords or villainous corporate CEOs - perhaps because they explode so spectacularly when stitched with gunfire. Images Steven Lo, seen here, and his brother George emphasize "a...Steven Lo and his brother George emphasize "aquascaping,"...Driftwood and plants are arranged with a Zen sensibility ... View More Images For most of us, though, aquariums are of limited interest. In a standard setup, the fish simply swim around and around, pursuing their piscine interests as best they can in a confined space. They are attractive, certainly, and there is something soothing about watching them drift about; but let's face it, the anodyne quickly turns into the stultifying. Plus, there are some genuine environmental concerns about saltwater aquariums: Specimens are often obtained in the developing world by impoverished collectors who use cyanide to stun reef fish. The poison kills as often as it incapacitates, and is fatal to large areas of coral as well. But walk into Aqua Forest Aquarium, a shop on Fillmore Street near Japantown, and the old assumptions fall away. As its name implies, Aqua Forest doesn't sell aquariums so much as self-contained aquatic ecosystems. Looking into one of tanks is like peering into a triple-canopy rain forest: varying levels of vegetation . . . \\Steve// [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 44661	From: N Taweel	Date: 11/23/2009
Subject: Re: Job needed for a young algae eater

I remember my mollies -once in the past- did eat the alge from the rocks, plants, and glass, but did not keep the glass clean at all, even the magnet scrubber does a better job, so mollies wouldn't solve the problem. Lenny, I researched the Cherry Shrimp, and found that it can't solve my problem because it's only algae on the glass where the shrimp can't reach or pick-up. I think I'll just get two small CAEs, one for each tank, and when they get big I'll trade them for smaller ones. Thanks for the help from everyone here. Noura ----- Original Message ----- From: William M To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Monday, November 23, 2009 7:21 AM Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Job needed for a young algae eater Another fish to consider (if they have them is the otto cat or even the bushymouth plecos. The otto cats only get to about 1 & 1/2 inches long whereas the bushymouth plecos can get to be up to 6 inches long depending on species. Or you might even try a molly as they will eat algae to a certain degree. --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "noura_taweel" <n-taweel@...> wrote: > > The method I use to tranfer my CAE between the two tanks, is holding him in a 4" diameter box, filled with about 150ml from the 20G tank's water,and then I add 30-40 ml every 10-15 minutes from the 6G all while floating the plastic container in the 6G to mentain the temperature. then I finally put the CAE in the 6G, which contains Goupy fry, two live plants, and a few dozens of MTS snails. The 6G is NOT exposed to sunlight, only daylight coming through a semi-transparent curtain. The algae is only the green kind growing on the glass making an unpleasant sight of the -otherwise- beautiful tiny tank. Scrubbing the algae doesn't remove them from all corners and places. > The problem now, is that I don't have many choices in finding snails here in Syria, the LFS rarely even sell them. > I was thinking, do you think I can buy a new BABY Chinese Algae Eater and keep him in the 6G until he outgrows it, then take him back to the LFS? would that be a good idea in the absence of the suitable snails and Clown Plecos "which I don't recall seeing at all in the LFSs here"? I would also mention that there aren't algae wafers here. > > Noura-Syria > > --- [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 44662	From: gailsugarpants	Date: 11/23/2009
Subject: Flowerhorn Cichlids

I have found myself interested in Flowerhorns, my LFS has some of them and they are Beautiful!! Is anyone here keeping Flowerhorns, or can anyone give me some good links where I can find out more about these? thanks, Gail

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 44663	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 11/23/2009
Subject: Re: Job needed for a young algae eater

Who said Cherry Shrimp won't eat algae off of glass? My Cherry Shrimp swim all over the tank (just like fish) and keep the glass as sparkling clean as anything else in their tank. The only algae they seem to not like is filamentous algae, which I had a little bout with when the guppy grass started getting too thick on the surface, blocking too much light from the other plants and the filamentous algae started growing in the guppy grass. I thinned out the guppy grass while pulling out the filamentous algae and since then, I've seen the Cherry Shrimp crawling around more in the guppy grass and I think they might be eating any remnants of the filamentous algae as well. Maybe they just didn't like it when it got too thick in some areas.... or maybe they just don't eat that much of it or preferred other algae's and saved the filamentous algae for last. I'll almost guarantee you that if the only place there is algae is on the glass, they WILL crawl/swim up the glass picking at it till it's all gone. They might go after the stuff on the gravel, decorations, plants, etc., first but after that is gone, they'll get to the algae on the glass as well. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of N Taweel Sent: Monday, November 23, 2009 10:22 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: Job needed for a young algae eater I remember my mollies -once in the past- did eat the alge from the rocks, plants, and glass, but did not keep the glass clean at all, even the magnet scrubber does a better job, so mollies wouldn't solve the problem. Lenny, I researched the Cherry Shrimp, and found that it can't solve my problem because it's only algae on the glass where the shrimp can't reach or pick-up. I think I'll just get two small CAEs, one for each tank, and when they get big I'll trade them for smaller ones. Thanks for the help from everyone here. Noura ----- Original Message ----- From: William M To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Monday, November 23, 2009 7:21 AM Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Job needed for a young algae eater Another fish to consider (if they have them is the otto cat or even the bushymouth plecos. The otto cats only get to about 1 & 1/2 inches long whereas the bushymouth plecos can get to be up to 6 inches long depending on species. Or you might even try a molly as they will eat algae to a certain degree. --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "noura_taweel" <n-taweel@...> wrote: > > The method I use to tranfer my CAE between the two tanks, is holding him in a 4" diameter box, filled with about 150ml from the 20G tank's water,and then I add 30-40 ml every 10-15 minutes from the 6G all while floating the plastic container in the 6G to mentain the temperature. then I finally put the CAE in the 6G, which contains Goupy fry, two live plants, and a few dozens of MTS snails. The 6G is NOT exposed to sunlight, only daylight coming through a semi-transparent curtain. The algae is only the green kind growing on the glass making an unpleasant sight of the -otherwise- beautiful tiny tank. Scrubbing the algae doesn't remove them from all corners and places. > The problem now, is that I don't have many choices in finding snails here in Syria, the LFS rarely even sell them. > I was thinking, do you think I can buy a new BABY Chinese Algae Eater and keep him in the 6G until he outgrows it, then take him back to the LFS? would that be a good idea in the absence of the suitable snails and Clown Plecos "which I don't recall seeing at all in the LFSs here"? I would also mention that there aren't algae wafers here. > > Noura-Syria > > ---

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 44664	From: Lainey Alexander	Date: 11/23/2009
Subject: The reality of algae

Hi Everyone - Is it possible to have a fully planted tank with co2, fertilizer, proper lighting. proper stocking and good care AND not have algae? Is it ultimately necessary to use some kind of treatment for algae such as Flourish Excel or else to live with algae? Can algae eaters really control algae in the above tank? Why do "amano" style tanks that I see not seem to have algae? Are they using algaecides? :))) Lainey http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 44665	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 11/23/2009
Subject: Re: The reality of algae

Yes, ALL TANKS will have some algae. The display tanks you see in magazines or websites use algae eating fish and shrimp (there is even the Amano Shrimp named after Amano) to keep the algae under control and they start off with a balanced tank and let the tank grow and work hard to keep it balanced. They also clean things up really good before doing the photo shoot. This is why you'll rarely see a heater, filter system or anything else on the tank. It's dressed up for the photo shoot but it probably doesn't look like that in real life. Kind of like a my ex-wife, in her Glamour Shots, looks nothing like my ex-wife when she woke up first thing in the morning... EEEEEEEEKKKKK!!!!! LOL Also, at our level, SO MANY fishkeepers try to or do overstock their tanks and then the plants can't compete with the amount of nutrients. Or they use too much lighting or CO2 or nutrient additives to try and make the plants grow faster or any number of other things. It takes time and patience to achieve a well-balanced tank for most of us beginners. I know I went through all the phases and I'm sure many other more experienced members than me also went through all the phases before finding what works best for each tank. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Lainey Alexander Sent: Monday, November 23, 2009 6:52 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] The reality of algae Hi Everyone - Is it possible to have a fully planted tank with co2, fertilizer, proper lighting. proper stocking and good care AND not have algae? Is it ultimately necessary to use some kind of treatment for algae such as Flourish Excel or else to live with algae? Can algae eaters really control algae in the above tank? Why do "amano" style tanks that I see not seem to have algae? Are they using algaecides? :))) Lainey http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 44666	From: Lainey Alexander	Date: 11/23/2009
Subject: Re: The reality of algae

Lenny - Can you describe the level of algae that will inevitably be present in a well-balanced tank? IE in the best case scenario, how much algae is there? If I do everything perfectly, and am no longer a beginner with planted tanks, how much algae will I be looking at each day when I wake up? I am trying to understand what "perfection" will look like for when I do achieve it:) PS I hate algae. Lainey http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com On Nov 23, 2009, at 8:35 PM, Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > It takes time and patience to achieve a well-balanced tank for most > of us > beginners. I know I went through all the phases and I'm sure many > other > more experienced members than me also went through all the phases > before > finding what works best for each tank. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 44667	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 11/23/2009
Subject: Re: The reality of algae

There will always be algae present in any tank. Whether you can easily see it or not is another question entirely. (Ooops . . . supper is ready, be back in a bit.) . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . (OK, I'm back after a delicious piece of kielbasa and some pierogi.) The setup you originally describe has a good chance of not showing a lot of algae, if any, once a balance of the CO2, nutrients, and plants is achieved. The algae will still be there, lurking, waiting for conditions more appropriate to its growth, and careful inspection will turn it up. You do not need to use any treatment for algae. Give your plants the proper conditions, and they will help you control it be using the nutrients that algae uses. You'll need to provide a primary food source for your algae eaters to survive and/or thrive in such a setup. You simply do not see the algae in the tank in the photographs. Up close and in person, you would probably be able to find algae after a careful inspection. When summer comes around again, look at the ponds and streams in your area. You'll find algae of all sorts growing. If Mom Nature can deal with it, you can to. Algae is just another thing that people get all out of sorts about, and think they need to remove it. The real idea is to merely control it. Keeping your tank in good shape through regular maintenance is the way to do so. \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Lainey Alexander Sent: Monday, November 23, 2009 7:52 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] The reality of algae Hi Everyone - Is it possible to have a fully planted tank with co2, fertilizer, proper lighting. proper stocking and good care AND not have algae? Is it ultimately necessary to use some kind of treatment for algae such as Flourish Excel or else to live with algae? Can algae eaters really control algae in the above tank? Why do "amano" style tanks that I see not seem to have algae? Are they using algaecides? :))) Lainey http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 44668	From: Lainey Alexander	Date: 11/23/2009
Subject: Re: The reality of algae

What I am noticing is that sometimes there appears to be a tuft or two and it never amounts to anything, but other times a tuft or two can turn into an all out meltdown with green water and five kinds of slimy cottony plant destroying stuff. It's hard for me to tell the difference between when I'm OK and when I'm not so I decided to panic whenever I see any algae whatsoever - that way I figure I'll never get to the meltdown stage. However, I realize that algae is everpresent - I was just trying to find out whether it's always glaringly visible or whether I can hope, someday, not to see quite so much of it. I do hate the look of it in a fishtank. And I do understand that in a balanced tank, which I don't quite have yet, the plants will outcompete the algae for the most part - question is, what is that other part that's not the most part? Lainey http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com On Nov 23, 2009, at 9:14 PM, Steve Szabo wrote: > There will always be algae present in any tank. Whether you can > easily see > it or not is another question entirely. (Ooops . . . supper is > ready, be > back in a > bit.) . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . > . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . > . . . > . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . (OK, I'm > back > after a delicious piece of kielbasa and some pierogi.) The setup you > originally describe has a good chance of not showing a lot of > algae, if any, > once a balance of the CO2, nutrients, and plants is achieved. The > algae will > still be there, lurking, waiting for conditions more appropriate to > its > growth, and careful inspection will turn it up. > > You do not need to use any treatment for algae. Give your plants > the proper > conditions, and they will help you control it be using the > nutrients that > algae uses. > > You'll need to provide a primary food source for your algae eaters to > survive and/or thrive in such a setup. > > You simply do not see the algae in the tank in the photographs. Up > close and > in person, you would probably be able to find algae after a careful > inspection. > > When summer comes around again, look at the ponds and streams in > your area. > You'll find algae of all sorts growing. If Mom Nature can deal with > it, you > can to. Algae is just another thing that people get all out of > sorts about, > and think they need to remove it. The real idea is to merely > control it. > Keeping your tank in good shape through regular maintenance is the > way to do > so. > > \\Steve// > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On > Behalf Of Lainey Alexander > Sent: Monday, November 23, 2009 7:52 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Subject: [AquaticLife] The reality of algae > > Hi Everyone - > > Is it possible to have a fully planted tank with co2, fertilizer, > proper lighting. proper stocking and good care AND not have algae? > > Is it ultimately necessary to use some kind of treatment for algae > such as Flourish Excel or else to live with algae? > > Can algae eaters really control algae in the above tank? > > Why do "amano" style tanks that I see not seem to have algae? Are > they using algaecides? > > :))) > > Lainey > http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 44669	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 11/23/2009
Subject: Re: Job needed for a young algae eater

I was gonna say... mine nibble at algae on the glass too. So do my guppy's. Amber Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > > Who said Cherry Shrimp won't eat algae off of glass? > > My Cherry Shrimp swim all over the tank (just like fish) and keep the > glass > as sparkling clean as anything else in their tank. The only algae they > seem > to not like is filamentous algae, which I had a little bout with when the > guppy grass started getting too thick on the surface, blocking too much > light from the other plants and the filamentous algae started growing > in the > guppy grass. I thinned out the guppy grass while pulling out the > filamentous algae and since then, I've seen the Cherry Shrimp crawling > around more in the guppy grass and I think they might be eating any > remnants > of the filamentous algae as well. Maybe they just didn't like it when it > got too thick in some areas.... or maybe they just don't eat that much > of it > or preferred other algae's and saved the filamentous algae for last. > > I'll almost guarantee you that if the only place there is algae is on the > glass, they WILL crawl/swim up the glass picking at it till it's all gone. > They might go after the stuff on the gravel, decorations, plants, etc., > first but after that is gone, they'll get to the algae on the glass as > well. > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right > side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) > > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On > Behalf Of N Taweel > Sent: Monday, November 23, 2009 10:22 AM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: Job needed for a young algae eater > > I remember my mollies -once in the past- did eat the alge from the rocks, > plants, and glass, but did not keep the glass clean at all, even the > magnet > scrubber does a better job, so mollies wouldn't solve the problem. > Lenny, I researched the Cherry Shrimp, and found that it can't solve my > problem because it's only algae on the glass where the shrimp can't > reach or > pick-up. > I think I'll just get two small CAEs, one for each tank, and when they get > big I'll trade them for smaller ones. > Thanks for the help from everyone here. > Noura > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: William M > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Sent: Monday, November 23, 2009 7:21 AM > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Job needed for a young algae eater > > Another fish to consider (if they have them is the otto cat or even the > bushymouth plecos. The otto cats only get to about 1 & 1/2 inches long > whereas the bushymouth plecos can get to be up to 6 inches long > depending on > species. Or you might even try a molly as they will eat algae to a certain > degree. > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>, "noura_taweel" <n-taweel@...> > wrote: > > > > The method I use to tranfer my CAE between the two tanks, is holding him > in a 4" diameter box, filled with about 150ml from the 20G tank's > water,and > then I add 30-40 ml every 10-15 minutes from the 6G all while floating the > plastic container in the 6G to mentain the temperature. then I finally put > the CAE in the 6G, which contains Goupy fry, two live plants, and a few > dozens of MTS snails. The 6G is NOT exposed to sunlight, only daylight > coming through a semi-transparent curtain. The algae is only the green > kind > growing on the glass making an unpleasant sight of the -otherwise- > beautiful > tiny tank. Scrubbing the algae doesn't remove them from all corners and > places. > > The problem now, is that I don't have many choices in finding snails > here in Syria, the LFS rarely even sell them. > > I was thinking, do you think I can buy a new BABY Chinese Algae Eater > and keep him in the 6G until he outgrows it, then take him back to the > LFS? > would that be a good idea in the absence of the suitable snails and Clown > Plecos "which I don't recall seeing at all in the LFSs here"? I would also > mention that there aren't algae wafers here. > > > > Noura-Syria > > > > --- > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 44670	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 11/23/2009
Subject: Re: The reality of algae

Lainey, The amount of algae in any given "perfect" tank will vary depending on a number of factors. The fish load. The plant load. The amount of nutrients available in the water from water changes. The amount of food available from fertilization. The pH of the water. The KH and GH of the water. The amount of phosphates present in the water. And that is probably only the beginning of the list. Your statement "I hate algae." Shows that you have bought into the myth that a perfect tank contains no algae. As both Lenny and I have tried to show you, a perfect tank DOES contain algae. It is natural. Algae is going to be there, no matter what you do to remove it. Learn to live with it and appreciate it. It does serve a useful function in a healthy tank. \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Lainey Alexander Sent: Monday, November 23, 2009 9:03 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] The reality of algae Lenny - Can you describe the level of algae that will inevitably be present in a well-balanced tank? IE in the best case scenario, how much algae is there? If I do everything perfectly, and am no longer a beginner with planted tanks, how much algae will I be looking at each day when I wake up? I am trying to understand what "perfection" will look like for when I do achieve it:) PS I hate algae. Lainey http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com On Nov 23, 2009, at 8:35 PM, Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > It takes time and patience to achieve a well-balanced tank for most > of us > beginners. I know I went through all the phases and I'm sure many > other > more experienced members than me also went through all the phases > before > finding what works best for each tank.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 44671	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 11/23/2009
Subject: Re: The reality of algae

Lainey, I think I may have covered that in my most recent reply to you, which you are probably receiving just before you see this one. \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Lainey Alexander Sent: Monday, November 23, 2009 9:24 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] The reality of algae What I am noticing is that sometimes there appears to be a tuft or two and it never amounts to anything, but other times a tuft or two can turn into an all out meltdown with green water and five kinds of slimy cottony plant destroying stuff. It's hard for me to tell the difference between when I'm OK and when I'm not so I decided to panic whenever I see any algae whatsoever - that way I figure I'll never get to the meltdown stage. However, I realize that algae is everpresent - I was just trying to find out whether it's always glaringly visible or whether I can hope, someday, not to see quite so much of it. I do hate the look of it in a fishtank. And I do understand that in a balanced tank, which I don't quite have yet, the plants will outcompete the algae for the most part - question is, what is that other part that's not the most part? Lainey http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com On Nov 23, 2009, at 9:14 PM, Steve Szabo wrote: > There will always be algae present in any tank. Whether you can > easily see > it or not is another question entirely. (Ooops . . . supper is > ready, be > back in a > bit.) . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . > . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . > . . . > . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . (OK, I'm > back > after a delicious piece of kielbasa and some pierogi.) The setup you > originally describe has a good chance of not showing a lot of > algae, if any, > once a balance of the CO2, nutrients, and plants is achieved. The > algae will > still be there, lurking, waiting for conditions more appropriate to > its > growth, and careful inspection will turn it up. > > You do not need to use any treatment for algae. Give your plants > the proper > conditions, and they will help you control it be using the > nutrients that > algae uses. > > You'll need to provide a primary food source for your algae eaters to > survive and/or thrive in such a setup. > > You simply do not see the algae in the tank in the photographs. Up > close and > in person, you would probably be able to find algae after a careful > inspection. > > When summer comes around again, look at the ponds and streams in > your area. > You'll find algae of all sorts growing. If Mom Nature can deal with > it, you > can to. Algae is just another thing that people get all out of > sorts about, > and think they need to remove it. The real idea is to merely > control it. > Keeping your tank in good shape through regular maintenance is the > way to do > so. > > \\Steve// > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On > Behalf Of Lainey Alexander > Sent: Monday, November 23, 2009 7:52 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Subject: [AquaticLife] The reality of algae > > Hi Everyone - > > Is it possible to have a fully planted tank with co2, fertilizer, > proper lighting. proper stocking and good care AND not have algae? > > Is it ultimately necessary to use some kind of treatment for algae > such as Flourish Excel or else to live with algae? > > Can algae eaters really control algae in the above tank? > > Why do "amano" style tanks that I see not seem to have algae? Are > they using algaecides? > > :))) > > Lainey > http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 44672	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 11/23/2009
Subject: Re: The reality of algae

I have noticed that my algae grows in spurts, once my mystery snails get to full grown the algae starts showing on the sides of the glass again, but I've noticed that something (shrimp or pleco) is munching on the glass too, and it's slowly getting cleaned back off, it's almost like the fish let it grow so they can eat it back off again, LOL. Amber Steve Szabo wrote: > > Lainey, > > The amount of algae in any given "perfect" tank will vary depending on a > number of factors. The fish load. The plant load. The amount of nutrients > available in the water from water changes. The amount of food > available from > fertilization. The pH of the water. The KH and GH of the water. The amount > of phosphates present in the water. And that is probably only the > beginning > of the list. > > Your statement "I hate algae." Shows that you have bought into the > myth that > a perfect tank contains no algae. As both Lenny and I have tried to show > you, a perfect tank DOES contain algae. It is natural. Algae is going > to be > there, no matter what you do to remove it. Learn to live with it and > appreciate it. It does serve a useful function in a healthy tank. > > \\Steve// > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On > Behalf Of Lainey Alexander > Sent: Monday, November 23, 2009 9:03 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] The reality of algae > > Lenny - > > Can you describe the level of algae that will inevitably be present > in a well-balanced tank? IE in the best case scenario, how much algae > is there? If I do everything perfectly, and am no longer a beginner > with planted tanks, how much algae will I be looking at each day when > I wake up? > > I am trying to understand what "perfection" will look like for when I > do achieve it:) > > PS I hate algae. > > Lainey > http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com <http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com> > > On Nov 23, 2009, at 8:35 PM, Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > > > It takes time and patience to achieve a well-balanced tank for most > > of us > > beginners. I know I went through all the phases and I'm sure many > > other > > more experienced members than me also went through all the phases > > before > > finding what works best for each tank. > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 44673	From: johngda@charter.net	Date: 11/23/2009
Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Digest Number 3419

Sent from my HTC on the Now Network from Sprint! ----- Reply message ----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Date: Sat, Nov 21, 2009 6:57 AM Subject: [AquaticLife] Digest Number 3419 To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 44674	From: Lainey Alexander	Date: 11/23/2009
Subject: Re: The reality of algae

What about algae on the plants themselves? I really don't mind algae on the glass or gravel or wood or rocks - it's the stuff on the plants that seems to bother me. I seem to feel that the plants can't grow properly with the algae on them. And, I have seen a few of my own plants nearly die from being covered with algae or so it appeared to be the cause of near death (could have been starvation for nutrients light etc). So I guess I should rephase: I hate algae on plants! Is algae on plants natural/necessary/OK/to be expected in a healthy tank? Lainey http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com On Nov 23, 2009, at 9:42 PM, Steve Szabo wrote: > a perfect tank DOES contain algae. It is natural. Algae is going to be > there, no matter what you do to remove it. Learn to live with it and [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 44675	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 11/23/2009
Subject: Re: The reality of algae

When a plant gets covered in algae it can have trouble gathering nutrients from the "sun". So yes you are correct when you said it appeared that they withered and died covered in algae. What I do when one or more of my plants grows algae on it is trim off the covered leaves (without butchering the plant completely). I have to periodically trim my plants anyways as they will overgrow (especially the guppy grass), so I just trim off anything covered in algae when I'm doing my regular tank maintenance. Amber Lainey Alexander wrote: > > What about algae on the plants themselves? I really don't mind algae > on the glass or gravel or wood or rocks - it's the stuff on the > plants that seems to bother me. I seem to feel that the plants can't > grow properly with the algae on them. And, I have seen a few of my > own plants nearly die from being covered with algae or so it appeared > to be the cause of near death (could have been starvation for > nutrients light etc). > > So I guess I should rephase: I hate algae on plants! > > Is algae on plants natural/necessary/OK/to be expected in a healthy > tank? > > Lainey > http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com <http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com> > > On Nov 23, 2009, at 9:42 PM, Steve Szabo wrote: > > > a perfect tank DOES contain algae. It is natural. Algae is going to be > > there, no matter what you do to remove it. Learn to live with it and > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 44676	From: harry perry	Date: 11/23/2009
Subject: Re: The reality of algae/Amber

Ah, they have their own little garden, how clever. Harry --- On Mon, 11/23/09, Amber Berglund <arberglund@...> wrote: From: Amber Berglund <arberglund@...> Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] The reality of algae To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Date: Monday, November 23, 2009, 9:46 PM I have noticed that my algae grows in spurts, once my mystery snails get to full grown the algae starts showing on the sides of the glass again, but I've noticed that something (shrimp or pleco) is munching on the glass too, and it's slowly getting cleaned back off, it's almost like the fish let it grow so they can eat it back off again, LOL. Amber Steve Szabo wrote: > > Lainey, > > The amount of algae in any given "perfect" tank will vary depending on a > number of factors. The fish load. The plant load. The amount of nutrients > available in the water from water changes. The amount of food > available from > fertilization. The pH of the water. The KH and GH of the water. The amount > of phosphates present in the water. And that is probably only the > beginning > of the list. > > Your statement "I hate algae." Shows that you have bought into the > myth that > a perfect tank contains no algae. As both Lenny and I have tried to show > you, a perfect tank DOES contain algae. It is natural. Algae is going > to be > there, no matter what you do to remove it. Learn to live with it and > appreciate it. It does serve a useful function in a healthy tank. > > \\Steve// > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On > Behalf Of Lainey Alexander > Sent: Monday, November 23, 2009 9:03 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] The reality of algae > > Lenny - > > Can you describe the level of algae that will inevitably be present > in a well-balanced tank? IE in the best case scenario, how much algae > is there? If I do everything perfectly, and am no longer a beginner > with planted tanks, how much algae will I be looking at each day when > I wake up? > > I am trying to understand what "perfection" will look like for when I > do achieve it:) > > PS I hate algae. > > Lainey > http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com <http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com> > > On Nov 23, 2009, at 8:35 PM, Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > > > It takes time and patience to achieve a well-balanced tank for most > > of us > > beginners. I know I went through all the phases and I'm sure many > > other > > more experienced members than me also went through all the phases > > before > > finding what works best for each tank. > > ------------------------------------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the home page.  Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com to receive the digest, which includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com for the No E-Mail option where you will still be able to read messages on the group and post replies. Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com to receive individual e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 44677	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 11/23/2009
Subject: Re: The reality of algae

Lainey, I have seen it in and among the plants, but not to the extremes you are talking about, in a well cared for tank. Is it unusual? No. Is it something you want to try to avoid? Probably so. Is it something you can avoid? I doubt it. \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Lainey Alexander Sent: Monday, November 23, 2009 10:05 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] The reality of algae What about algae on the plants themselves? I really don't mind algae on the glass or gravel or wood or rocks - it's the stuff on the plants that seems to bother me. I seem to feel that the plants can't grow properly with the algae on them. And, I have seen a few of my own plants nearly die from being covered with algae or so it appeared to be the cause of near death (could have been starvation for nutrients light etc). So I guess I should rephase: I hate algae on plants! Is algae on plants natural/necessary/OK/to be expected in a healthy tank? Lainey http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com On Nov 23, 2009, at 9:42 PM, Steve Szabo wrote: > a perfect tank DOES contain algae. It is natural. Algae is going to be > there, no matter what you do to remove it. Learn to live with it and

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 44678	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 11/23/2009
Subject: Creatures of the Abyss

A short slide show of unusual sea creatures. http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/gallery/2009/11/22/GA2009112201 672.html?wpisrc=nl_most http://tinyurl.com/yjdlrxb \\Steve//

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 44679	From: harry perry	Date: 11/23/2009
Subject: Re: The reality of algae/Lainey

I have several tanks. Over the years (about 45 years) I've tried everything you are going to read here or could possible "Google up". Controlling algae. Phosphate testers etc. mineral additions, lighting and on and on. Here is what works for me. I put my lights on a timer for 12 hours. This gives me a constant in the equation. IMO, don't ever feed your fish according to the directions on the container. I feed my fish once every other day. Feeding fry being an exception. Healthy fish are always hungry. Any un-eaten food, there will always be some, is algae food. Fish food is an excellent source of phosphates. I always use live plants to control algae. If one of my tanks is increasing in algae growth I take some clippings out of another tank and plant them in the "algae tank". What I've noticed algae can start in a couple of days but it might take two weeks to notice a difference when it starts to "go away" and it never really does go completely away.I keep a ten gallon plant grow out tank just for this purpose. Fortunately the plants needed are inexpensive. Horn wort etc. Low light fast growing plants. I also use Flourish Excel to help the plants grow faster. My tanks are balanced so I don't do water changes however I don't recommend you stop water changes. At the time of weekly maintenance I would remove any dead leaves, plants etc. Vacuum the top of the gravel not down into the gravel. Remove the leaves with algae. Scrape the glass at weekly maintenance. You will always have some algae.  If you Google Amano tanks you will notice they are beautiful spotless tanks. His tanks are balanced even the shape of the tanks comes into play they are always low profile tanks not high show tanks. So the plants get the full benefit from the lighting. He also uses shrimp to control the algae. He is a master, however you don't see the time and years of experience or the staff he has to maintain these tanks. Spotless beautiful tanks are possible but it doesn't happen overnight nor does it happen without a lot of time spent. Balancing a tank is a game, enjoy it. Experiment with plants, fertilizer, lights, shrimp etc. When you see algae don't panic stop and think where are the excess nutrients coming from, light from a window, excess fish food, dead plants,fish etc, lack of weekly water change. It's a constant learning exercise. Harry --- On Mon, 11/23/09, Lainey Alexander <lainealex@...> wrote: From: Lainey Alexander <lainealex@...> Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] The reality of algae To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Date: Monday, November 23, 2009, 10:04 PM   What about algae on the plants themselves? I really don't mind algae on the glass or gravel or wood or rocks - it's the stuff on the plants that seems to bother me. I seem to feel that the plants can't grow properly with the algae on them. And, I have seen a few of my own plants nearly die from being covered with algae or so it appeared to be the cause of near death (could have been starvation for nutrients light etc). So I guess I should rephase: I hate algae on plants! Is algae on plants natural/necessary/ OK/to be expected in a healthy tank? Lainey http://www.grasslan dsgouldians. com On Nov 23, 2009, at 9:42 PM, Steve Szabo wrote: > a perfect tank DOES contain algae. It is natural. Algae is going to be > there, no matter what you do to remove it. Learn to live with it and [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 44680	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 11/24/2009
Subject: Re: The reality of algae

Well, for my 65G goldfish tank, I scrape the front and two sides on a weekly basis and I leave algae alone on the back glass. The Clown Pleco works on that and I scrape some every few days for the Cherry Shrimp tank. Since I KNOW algae is going to exist in nearly every tank, I try to give it a place to grow that is acceptable. I read one of your later posts and see where you are mostly concerned with the algae on your plants so one possibility would be for you to let the algae grow on the glass while you work on getting it off the plants. This may mean clipping some leaves, lightly brushing others, dipping some plants, etc. Add more plants, if you can, and then as the plants do better, you can slowly start scraping some of the algae off the front glass, leaving the two sides and back alone. After a few weeks, if the plants are still doing OK, then scrape one of the side glasses. Then you can slowly work on the last side glass. You may be like me and decide to leave algae growing on the back glass since... if it's going to be in your tank, at least you can control where it's at. Algae is also a bellwether of what is happening in a tank. If the algae starts to noticeably grow, then you need to cut back on the lighting or nutrients or CO2 until you find the right mix. Each tank will be different based on the amount of fish, plants, nutrients, CO2 and lighting.... and the overall design of the tank and how the lighting works for that tank. BTW.... there's no such thing as perfection any longer. He died around 2010 years ago. ;-) Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Lainey Alexander Sent: Monday, November 23, 2009 8:03 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] The reality of algae Lenny - Can you describe the level of algae that will inevitably be present in a well-balanced tank? IE in the best case scenario, how much algae is there? If I do everything perfectly, and am no longer a beginner with planted tanks, how much algae will I be looking at each day when I wake up? I am trying to understand what "perfection" will look like for when I do achieve it:) PS I hate algae. Lainey http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com On Nov 23, 2009, at 8:35 PM, Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > It takes time and patience to achieve a well-balanced tank for most of > us beginners. I know I went through all the phases and I'm sure many > other more experienced members than me also went through all the > phases before finding what works best for each tank.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 44681	From: Lainey Alexander	Date: 11/24/2009
Subject: Re: The reality of algae

I know this is not conventional wisdom, but after talking with a large number of experienced fishkeepers, I decided to increase my plant fertilizer (IE add more nitrogen etc.) and this seems to be helping more than anything else. My water levels have been zero for nitrates and ammonia, so some people have suspected that my plants have too little nutrients to outcompete the algae, and somehow this made sense to me because cutting back fish food and light had no effect. And actually, increasing the CO2 helps as well. (I need to retest all my levels now that I am fertilizing more - but visually the tank is way better.) I feel like this stuff is a bit complicated:) Lainey http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com On Nov 24, 2009, at 4:40 AM, Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > Well, for my 65G goldfish tank, I scrape the front and two sides on > a weekly > basis and I leave algae alone on the back glass. The Clown Pleco > works on > that and I scrape some every few days for the Cherry Shrimp tank. > Since I > KNOW algae is going to exist in nearly every tank, I try to give it > a place > to grow that is acceptable. > > I read one of your later posts and see where you are mostly > concerned with > the algae on your plants so one possibility would be for you to let > the > algae grow on the glass while you work on getting it off the > plants. This > may mean clipping some leaves, lightly brushing others, dipping > some plants, > etc. Add more plants, if you can, and then as the plants do better, > you can > slowly start scraping some of the algae off the front glass, > leaving the two > sides and back alone. After a few weeks, if the plants are still > doing OK, > then scrape one of the side glasses. Then you can slowly work on > the last > side glass. > > You may be like me and decide to leave algae growing on the back glass > since... if it's going to be in your tank, at least you can control > where > it's at. Algae is also a bellwether of what is happening in a tank. > If the > algae starts to noticeably grow, then you need to cut back on the > lighting > or nutrients or CO2 until you find the right mix. Each tank will be > different based on the amount of fish, plants, nutrients, CO2 and > lighting.... and the overall design of the tank and how the > lighting works > for that tank. > > BTW.... there's no such thing as perfection any longer. He died > around 2010 > years ago. ;-) > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the > right > side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, > Month) > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On > Behalf Of Lainey Alexander > Sent: Monday, November 23, 2009 8:03 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] The reality of algae > > Lenny - > > Can you describe the level of algae that will inevitably be present > in a > well-balanced tank? IE in the best case scenario, how much algae is > there? > If I do everything perfectly, and am no longer a beginner with planted > tanks, how much algae will I be looking at each day when I wake up? > > I am trying to understand what "perfection" will look like for when > I do > achieve it:) > > PS I hate algae. > > Lainey > http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com > > On Nov 23, 2009, at 8:35 PM, Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > > > It takes time and patience to achieve a well-balanced tank for > most of > > us beginners. I know I went through all the phases and I'm sure many > > other more experienced members than me also went through all the > > phases before finding what works best for each tank. > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 44682	From: bill 1433	Date: 11/24/2009
Subject: Re: The reality of algae/Lainey

Hi Harry,   I found this post both interesting and enlightening but do have one question that I am sure will also be of value to other group members.   You mention your lights on timers.  What exactly is your 'lighting setup" in your tanks? What kind are you using?  Common fluorescents?  The newer compact versions, common incandescent or just regular "shop lights', the 4 foot double tube models from your local Loews or Home Depot.   Bill   --- On Mon, 11/23/09, harry perry <harryfisherman@...> wrote: From: harry perry <harryfisherman@...> Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] The reality of algae/Lainey To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Date: Monday, November 23, 2009, 11:50 PM I have several tanks. Over the years (about 45 years) I've tried everything you are going to read here or could possible "Google up". Controlling algae. Phosphate testers etc. mineral additions, lighting and on and on. Here is what works for me. I put my lights on a timer for 12 hours. This gives me a constant in the equation. IMO, don't ever feed your fish according to the directions on the container. I feed my fish once every other day. Feeding fry being an exception. Healthy fish are always hungry. Any un-eaten food, there will always be some, is algae food. Fish food is an excellent source of phosphates. I always use live plants to control algae. If one of my tanks is increasing in algae growth I take some clippings out of another tank and plant them in the "algae tank". What I've noticed algae can start in a couple of days but it might take two weeks to notice a difference when it starts to "go away" and it never really does go completely away.I keep a ten gallon plant grow out tank just for this purpose. Fortunately the plants needed are inexpensive. Horn wort etc. Low light fast growing plants. I also use Flourish Excel to help the plants grow faster. My tanks are balanced so I don't do water changes however I don't recommend you stop water changes. At the time of weekly maintenance I would remove any dead leaves, plants etc. Vacuum the top of the gravel not down into the gravel. Remove the leaves with algae. Scrape the glass at weekly maintenance. You will always have some algae.  If you Google Amano tanks you will notice they are beautiful spotless tanks. His tanks are balanced even the shape of the tanks comes into play they are always low profile tanks not high show tanks. So the plants get the full benefit from the lighting. He also uses shrimp to control the algae. He is a master, however you don't see the time and years of experience or the staff he has to maintain these tanks. Spotless beautiful tanks are possible but it doesn't happen overnight nor does it happen without a lot of time spent. Balancing a tank is a game, enjoy it. Experiment with plants, fertilizer, lights, shrimp etc. When you see algae don't panic stop and think where are the excess nutrients coming from, light from a window, excess fish food, dead plants,fish etc, lack of weekly water change. It's a constant learning exercise. Harry --- On Mon, 11/23/09, Lainey Alexander <lainealex@...> wrote: From: Lainey Alexander <lainealex@...> Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] The reality of algae To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Date: Monday, November 23, 2009, 10:04 PM                           What about algae on the plants themselves? I really don't mind algae  on the glass or gravel or wood or rocks - it's the stuff on the  plants that seems to bother me. I seem to feel that the plants can't  grow properly with the algae on them. And, I have seen a few of my  own plants nearly die from being covered with algae or so it appeared  to be the cause of near death (could have been starvation for  nutrients light etc). So I guess I should rephase: I hate algae on plants! Is algae on plants natural/necessary/ OK/to be expected in a healthy  tank? Lainey http://www.grasslan dsgouldians. com On Nov 23, 2009, at 9:42 PM, Steve Szabo wrote: > a perfect tank DOES contain algae. It is natural. Algae is going to be > there, no matter what you do to remove it. Learn to live with it and [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]                           [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] ------------------------------------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the home page.  Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com to receive the digest, which includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com for the No E-Mail option where you will still be able to read messages on the group and post replies. Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com to receive individual e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 44683	From: cat.rose	Date: 11/24/2009
Subject: Re: The reality of algae

I too have been dealing with the algae situation, but I WISH it was the green stuff! Mine is the uber-ugly black beard algae all over my live plants and also covering the 2 fake plants. I've been trying to (1) pinch off sections, (2) unscrew one of the 2 lightbulbs so there's less light, (3) keep the lights on for less time. It doesn't seem to be going away. I'm going to buy some cherry shrimp per Lenny's advice. I tried going to the Drs. Foster Smith website but it seems they're not available right now - I signed up to be notified when the shrimp are back in stock. I may try to go PetSmart and see if they have them. Question: How many shrimp should I get for a 10 gal tank? I also found the Turbo CO2 Bio-System on their website for only $29.99: "Turbo CO2 Bio-System features a suction cup mounted adjustable venturi powerhead. Fine bubbles of CO2 are injected directly into the water column for maximum CO2 supplementation. The result is vibrant plant growth and vitality. Adjustable powerhead allows controlled CO2 diffusion into aquarium. Simply switch off the powerhead or connect to timer to prevent unwanted nighttime pH drop." I'm thinking maybe I should add this to my tank also? In addition to the above ideas, I'm also debating taking out ALL the plants and tossing them and just starting over. But, maybe I should leave a couple algae covered plants so that the shrimp will have something to eat. ADVICE? I too am not in love with algae, but do realize that it's a normal part of a healthy environment. I just HATE this black beard algae - it's ugly!!! :( ~Catherine~ --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, Lainey Alexander <lainealex@...> wrote: > > Hi Everyone - > > Is it possible to have a fully planted tank with co2, fertilizer, > proper lighting. proper stocking and good care AND not have algae? > > Is it ultimately necessary to use some kind of treatment for algae > such as Flourish Excel or else to live with algae? > > Can algae eaters really control algae in the above tank? > > Why do "amano" style tanks that I see not seem to have algae? Are > they using algaecides? > > :))) > > > Lainey > http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 44684	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 11/24/2009
Subject: Re: The reality of algae

I too have been battling black beard algae in my largest tank (125 gallons). It covers everything it can, powerhead, heaters, filter intakes, plants, decorations, gravel, etc. I have noticed that in my other tanks I have hardly any black beard algae, so I'm wondering what is different in my 55 gallon tanks compared to the 125 gallon. I don't use fertilizers or co2 in any of my tanks either. I have cherry shrimp in one of my 55 gallon tanks, but I don't think they eat black beard algae, anyone out there know if they do/don't eat black beard algae? I've been getting something new growing in my tanks the last few months, and it doesn't look like algae. It looks like curly black hair growing off of stuff, does anyone know what this is called or if I should worry about it? I've been pulling it off the decorations and plants when I notice it. Amber cat.rose wrote: > > I too have been dealing with the algae situation, but I WISH it was > the green stuff! Mine is the uber-ugly black beard algae all over my > live plants and also covering the 2 fake plants. > > I've been trying to (1) pinch off sections, (2) unscrew one of the 2 > lightbulbs so there's less light, (3) keep the lights on for less > time. It doesn't seem to be going away. > > I'm going to buy some cherry shrimp per Lenny's advice. I tried going > to the Drs. Foster Smith website but it seems they're not available > right now - I signed up to be notified when the shrimp are back in > stock. I may try to go PetSmart and see if they have them. Question: > How many shrimp should I get for a 10 gal tank? > > I also found the Turbo CO2 Bio-System on their website for only $29.99: > > "Turbo CO2 Bio-System features a suction cup mounted adjustable > venturi powerhead. Fine bubbles of CO2 are injected directly into the > water column for maximum CO2 supplementation. The result is vibrant > plant growth and vitality. Adjustable powerhead allows controlled CO2 > diffusion into aquarium. Simply switch off the powerhead or connect to > timer to prevent unwanted nighttime pH drop." > > I'm thinking maybe I should add this to my tank also? > > In addition to the above ideas, I'm also debating taking out ALL the > plants and tossing them and just starting over. But, maybe I should > leave a couple algae covered plants so that the shrimp will have > something to eat. ADVICE? > > I too am not in love with algae, but do realize that it's a normal > part of a healthy environment. I just HATE this black beard algae - > it's ugly!!! :( > > ~Catherine~ > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>, Lainey Alexander > <lainealex@...> wrote: > > > > Hi Everyone - > > > > Is it possible to have a fully planted tank with co2, fertilizer, > > proper lighting. proper stocking and good care AND not have algae? > > > > Is it ultimately necessary to use some kind of treatment for algae > > such as Flourish Excel or else to live with algae? > > > > Can algae eaters really control algae in the above tank? > > > > Why do "amano" style tanks that I see not seem to have algae? Are > > they using algaecides? > > > > :))) > > > > > > Lainey > > http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com <http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com> > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 44685	From: harry perry	Date: 11/24/2009
Subject: Re: The reality of algae/Lainey/Bill

Plain fluorescent bulbs. Regular hoods for the aquarium. I always use fluorescent. The timers I get at Walmart. This is important. These are strictly low light plants. Anything else will "melt" with this set up. Harry --- On Tue, 11/24/09, bill 1433 <warrenprint@...> wrote: From: bill 1433 <warrenprint@...> Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] The reality of algae/Lainey To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Date: Tuesday, November 24, 2009, 11:56 AM   Hi Harry,   I found this post both interesting and enlightening but do have one question that I am sure will also be of value to other group members.   You mention your lights on timers.  What exactly is your 'lighting setup" in your tanks? What kind are you using?  Common fluorescents?  The newer compact versions, common incandescent or just regular "shop lights', the 4 foot double tube models from your local Loews or Home Depot.   Bill   --- On Mon, 11/23/09, harry perry <harryfisherman@ yahoo.com> wrote: From: harry perry <harryfisherman@ yahoo.com> Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] The reality of algae/Lainey To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com Date: Monday, November 23, 2009, 11:50 PM I have several tanks. Over the years (about 45 years) I've tried everything you are going to read here or could possible "Google up". Controlling algae. Phosphate testers etc. mineral additions, lighting and on and on. Here is what works for me. I put my lights on a timer for 12 hours. This gives me a constant in the equation. IMO, don't ever feed your fish according to the directions on the container. I feed my fish once every other day. Feeding fry being an exception. Healthy fish are always hungry. Any un-eaten food, there will always be some, is algae food. Fish food is an excellent source of phosphates. I always use live plants to control algae. If one of my tanks is increasing in algae growth I take some clippings out of another tank and plant them in the "algae tank". What I've noticed algae can start in a couple of days but it might take two weeks to notice a difference when it starts to "go away" and it never really does go completely away.I keep a ten gallon plant grow out tank just for this purpose. Fortunately the plants needed are inexpensive. Horn wort etc. Low light fast growing plants. I also use Flourish Excel to help the plants grow faster. My tanks are balanced so I don't do water changes however I don't recommend you stop water changes. At the time of weekly maintenance I would remove any dead leaves, plants etc. Vacuum the top of the gravel not down into the gravel. Remove the leaves with algae. Scrape the glass at weekly maintenance. You will always have some algae.  If you Google Amano tanks you will notice they are beautiful spotless tanks. His tanks are balanced even the shape of the tanks comes into play they are always low profile tanks not high show tanks. So the plants get the full benefit from the lighting. He also uses shrimp to control the algae. He is a master, however you don't see the time and years of experience or the staff he has to maintain these tanks. Spotless beautiful tanks are possible but it doesn't happen overnight nor does it happen without a lot of time spent. Balancing a tank is a game, enjoy it. Experiment with plants, fertilizer, lights, shrimp etc. When you see algae don't panic stop and think where are the excess nutrients coming from, light from a window, excess fish food, dead plants,fish etc, lack of weekly water change. It's a constant learning exercise. Harry --- On Mon, 11/23/09, Lainey Alexander <lainealex@earthlink .net> wrote: From: Lainey Alexander <lainealex@earthlink .net> Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] The reality of algae To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com Date: Monday, November 23, 2009, 10:04 PM                           What about algae on the plants themselves? I really don't mind algae  on the glass or gravel or wood or rocks - it's the stuff on the  plants that seems to bother me. I seem to feel that the plants can't  grow properly with the algae on them. And, I have seen a few of my  own plants nearly die from being covered with algae or so it appeared  to be the cause of near death (could have been starvation for  nutrients light etc). So I guess I should rephase: I hate algae on plants! Is algae on plants natural/necessary/ OK/to be expected in a healthy  tank? Lainey http://www.grasslan dsgouldians. com On Nov 23, 2009, at 9:42 PM, Steve Szabo wrote: > a perfect tank DOES contain algae. It is natural. Algae is going to be > there, no matter what you do to remove it. Learn to live with it and [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]                           [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] ------------ --------- --------- ------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the home page.  Or e-mail aquaticlife- digest@yahoogrou ps.com to receive the digest, which includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email Or email aquaticlife- nomail@yahoogrou ps.com for the No E-Mail option where you will still be able to read messages on the group and post replies. Or email aquaticlife- normal@yahoogrou ps.com to receive individual e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 44686	From: harry perry	Date: 11/24/2009
Subject: Re: The reality of algae/Catherine

Google Hydrogen Peroxide for the treatment of Black Beard algae. It works I tried it. Harry --- On Tue, 11/24/09, cat.rose <catrosemail-peace@...> wrote: From: cat.rose <catrosemail-peace@...> Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: The reality of algae To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Date: Tuesday, November 24, 2009, 11:10 AM   I too have been dealing with the algae situation, but I WISH it was the green stuff! Mine is the uber-ugly black beard algae all over my live plants and also covering the 2 fake plants. I've been trying to (1) pinch off sections, (2) unscrew one of the 2 lightbulbs so there's less light, (3) keep the lights on for less time. It doesn't seem to be going away. I'm going to buy some cherry shrimp per Lenny's advice. I tried going to the Drs. Foster Smith website but it seems they're not available right now - I signed up to be notified when the shrimp are back in stock. I may try to go PetSmart and see if they have them. Question: How many shrimp should I get for a 10 gal tank? I also found the Turbo CO2 Bio-System on their website for only $29.99: "Turbo CO2 Bio-System features a suction cup mounted adjustable venturi powerhead. Fine bubbles of CO2 are injected directly into the water column for maximum CO2 supplementation. The result is vibrant plant growth and vitality. Adjustable powerhead allows controlled CO2 diffusion into aquarium. Simply switch off the powerhead or connect to timer to prevent unwanted nighttime pH drop." I'm thinking maybe I should add this to my tank also? In addition to the above ideas, I'm also debating taking out ALL the plants and tossing them and just starting over. But, maybe I should leave a couple algae covered plants so that the shrimp will have something to eat. ADVICE? I too am not in love with algae, but do realize that it's a normal part of a healthy environment. I just HATE this black beard algae - it's ugly!!! :( ~Catherine~ --- In AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com, Lainey Alexander <lainealex@. ..> wrote: > > Hi Everyone - > > Is it possible to have a fully planted tank with co2, fertilizer, > proper lighting. proper stocking and good care AND not have algae? > > Is it ultimately necessary to use some kind of treatment for algae > such as Flourish Excel or else to live with algae? > > Can algae eaters really control algae in the above tank? > > Why do "amano" style tanks that I see not seem to have algae? Are > they using algaecides? > > :))) > > > Lainey > http://www.grasslan dsgouldians. com > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 44687	From: harry perry	Date: 11/24/2009
Subject: Re: The reality of algae/Catherine

Try adding more plants like Horn Wort. Put your lights on a timer for 12 fours and feed your plants. Cutting back the light might make it worse. Htdrogen Peroide works. You use it with an eye dropper. Just Google it. Harry --- On Tue, 11/24/09, cat.rose <catrosemail-peace@...> wrote: From: cat.rose <catrosemail-peace@...> Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: The reality of algae To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Date: Tuesday, November 24, 2009, 11:10 AM   I too have been dealing with the algae situation, but I WISH it was the green stuff! Mine is the uber-ugly black beard algae all over my live plants and also covering the 2 fake plants. I've been trying to (1) pinch off sections, (2) unscrew one of the 2 lightbulbs so there's less light, (3) keep the lights on for less time. It doesn't seem to be going away. I'm going to buy some cherry shrimp per Lenny's advice. I tried going to the Drs. Foster Smith website but it seems they're not available right now - I signed up to be notified when the shrimp are back in stock. I may try to go PetSmart and see if they have them. Question: How many shrimp should I get for a 10 gal tank? I also found the Turbo CO2 Bio-System on their website for only $29.99: "Turbo CO2 Bio-System features a suction cup mounted adjustable venturi powerhead. Fine bubbles of CO2 are injected directly into the water column for maximum CO2 supplementation. The result is vibrant plant growth and vitality. Adjustable powerhead allows controlled CO2 diffusion into aquarium. Simply switch off the powerhead or connect to timer to prevent unwanted nighttime pH drop." I'm thinking maybe I should add this to my tank also? In addition to the above ideas, I'm also debating taking out ALL the plants and tossing them and just starting over. But, maybe I should leave a couple algae covered plants so that the shrimp will have something to eat. ADVICE? I too am not in love with algae, but do realize that it's a normal part of a healthy environment. I just HATE this black beard algae - it's ugly!!! :( ~Catherine~ --- In AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com, Lainey Alexander <lainealex@. ..> wrote: > > Hi Everyone - > > Is it possible to have a fully planted tank with co2, fertilizer, > proper lighting. proper stocking and good care AND not have algae? > > Is it ultimately necessary to use some kind of treatment for algae > such as Flourish Excel or else to live with algae? > > Can algae eaters really control algae in the above tank? > > Why do "amano" style tanks that I see not seem to have algae? Are > they using algaecides? > > :))) > > > Lainey > http://www.grasslan dsgouldians. com > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 44688	From: TerenceLee1000	Date: 11/24/2009
Subject: seahorses need a new home in los angeles

Are there any seahorse keepers in southern california? I've got 2 male reidi that need a new home. I got them from the seahorsesource. They are captive bred. Both are yellow. I'm selling for $50ea. Prefer to sell to an experienced aquarist rather than the LFS. E-mail me if you have questions. I also have photos. Terence

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 44689	From: N Taweel	Date: 11/24/2009
Subject: Re: Job needed for a young algae eater

Does it get out of his tank? Because that will be a problem with my son always opening the glass top of the tank to watch the fish or make them "taste" some cucombers occasionally! There are 2" between the water surface and the upper edge of the tank. And, does the Cherry Shrimp pick on the Fancy Guppies long tails? From what I read it doesn't , but I need some real experience on that. Noura ----- Original Message ----- From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Tuesday, November 24, 2009 2:20 AM Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: Job needed for a young algae eater Who said Cherry Shrimp won't eat algae off of glass? My Cherry Shrimp swim all over the tank (just like fish) and keep the glass as sparkling clean as anything else in their tank. The only algae they seem to not like is filamentous algae, which I had a little bout with when the guppy grass started getting too thick on the surface, blocking too much light from the other plants and the filamentous algae started growing in the guppy grass. I thinned out the guppy grass while pulling out the filamentous algae and since then, I've seen the Cherry Shrimp crawling around more in the guppy grass and I think they might be eating any remnants of the filamentous algae as well. Maybe they just didn't like it when it got too thick in some areas.... or maybe they just don't eat that much of it or preferred other algae's and saved the filamentous algae for last. I'll almost guarantee you that if the only place there is algae is on the glass, they WILL crawl/swim up the glass picking at it till it's all gone. They might go after the stuff on the gravel, decorations, plants, etc., first but after that is gone, they'll get to the algae on the glass as well. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of N Taweel Sent: Monday, November 23, 2009 10:22 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: Job needed for a young algae eater I remember my mollies -once in the past- did eat the alge from the rocks, plants, and glass, but did not keep the glass clean at all, even the magnet scrubber does a better job, so mollies wouldn't solve the problem. Lenny, I researched the Cherry Shrimp, and found that it can't solve my problem because it's only algae on the glass where the shrimp can't reach or pick-up. I think I'll just get two small CAEs, one for each tank, and when they get big I'll trade them for smaller ones. Thanks for the help from everyone here. Noura ----- Original Message ----- From: William M To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Monday, November 23, 2009 7:21 AM Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Job needed for a young algae eater Another fish to consider (if they have them is the otto cat or even the bushymouth plecos. The otto cats only get to about 1 & 1/2 inches long whereas the bushymouth plecos can get to be up to 6 inches long depending on species. Or you might even try a molly as they will eat algae to a certain degree. --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "noura_taweel" <n-taweel@...> wrote: > > The method I use to tranfer my CAE between the two tanks, is holding him in a 4" diameter box, filled with about 150ml from the 20G tank's water,and then I add 30-40 ml every 10-15 minutes from the 6G all while floating the plastic container in the 6G to mentain the temperature. then I finally put the CAE in the 6G, which contains Goupy fry, two live plants, and a few dozens of MTS snails. The 6G is NOT exposed to sunlight, only daylight coming through a semi-transparent curtain. The algae is only the green kind growing on the glass making an unpleasant sight of the -otherwise- beautiful tiny tank. Scrubbing the algae doesn't remove them from all corners and places. > The problem now, is that I don't have many choices in finding snails here in Syria, the LFS rarely even sell them. > I was thinking, do you think I can buy a new BABY Chinese Algae Eater and keep him in the 6G until he outgrows it, then take him back to the LFS? would that be a good idea in the absence of the suitable snails and Clown Plecos "which I don't recall seeing at all in the LFSs here"? I would also mention that there aren't algae wafers here. > > Noura-Syria > > --- [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 44690	From: bill 1433	Date: 11/24/2009
Subject: Re: The reality of algae/Catherine and Amber

Harry is right about the HP. I found my best results were obtained with a syringe and getting as close as you possibly can to the actual algae, i.e. direct contact, keeping your fish away from the immediate area while dosing. The HP dissipates quickly. He may or may not be referring to this web-site, again gained through Goggle: http://www.malawicichlidhomepage.com/aquainfo/algae_peroxide.html This site also shows some examples of "the beast" as well as the type of syringe used for the dosing. Bill --- On Tue, 11/24/09, harry perry <harryfisherman@...> wrote: From: harry perry <harryfisherman@...> Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: The reality of algae/Catherine To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Date: Tuesday, November 24, 2009, 3:55 PM Try adding more plants like Horn Wort. Put your lights on a timer for 12 fours and feed your plants. Cutting back the light might make it worse. Htdrogen Peroide works. You use it with an eye dropper. Just Google it. Harry --- On Tue, 11/24/09, cat.rose <catrosemail-peace@...> wrote: From: cat.rose <catrosemail-peace@...> Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: The reality of algae To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Date: Tuesday, November 24, 2009, 11:10 AM                           I too have been dealing with the algae situation, but I WISH it was the green stuff!  Mine is the uber-ugly black beard algae all over my live plants and also covering the 2 fake plants. I've been trying to (1) pinch off sections, (2) unscrew one of the 2 lightbulbs so there's less light, (3) keep the lights on for less time.  It doesn't seem to be going away. I'm going to buy some cherry shrimp per Lenny's advice.  I tried going to the Drs. Foster Smith website but it seems they're not available right now - I signed up to be notified when the shrimp are back in stock. I may try to go PetSmart and see if they have them.  Question: How many shrimp should I get for a 10 gal tank? I also found the Turbo CO2 Bio-System on their website for only $29.99: "Turbo CO2 Bio-System features a suction cup mounted adjustable venturi powerhead. Fine bubbles of CO2 are injected directly into the water column for maximum CO2 supplementation. The result is vibrant plant growth and vitality. Adjustable powerhead allows controlled CO2 diffusion into aquarium. Simply switch off the powerhead or connect to timer to prevent unwanted nighttime pH drop." I'm thinking maybe I should add this to my tank also? In addition to the above ideas, I'm also debating taking out ALL the plants and tossing them and just starting over.  But, maybe I should leave a couple algae covered plants so that the shrimp will have something to eat.  ADVICE? I too am not in love with algae, but do realize that it's a normal part of a healthy environment.  I just HATE this black beard algae - it's ugly!!! :( ~Catherine~ --- In AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com, Lainey Alexander <lainealex@. ..> wrote: > > Hi Everyone - > > Is it possible to have a fully planted tank with co2, fertilizer,  > proper lighting. proper stocking and good care AND not have algae? > > Is it ultimately necessary to use some kind of treatment for algae  > such as Flourish Excel or else to live with algae? > > Can algae eaters really control algae in the above tank? > > Why do "amano" style tanks that I see not seem to have algae? Are  > they using algaecides? > > :))) > > > Lainey > http://www.grasslan dsgouldians. com > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] >                           [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] ------------------------------------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the home page.  Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com to receive the digest, which includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com for the No E-Mail option where you will still be able to read messages on the group and post replies. Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com to receive individual e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 44691	From: N Taweel	Date: 11/24/2009
Subject: Re: Job needed for a young algae eater

Unfortunately, I just asked around about the availability of the Cherry Shrimp here, and was told that it costs around 30$ each. And it's not even available anytime. I'm trying to purchase big snails instead. Or will stick to the small CAEs choice otherwise! Noura ----- Original Message ----- From: N Taweel To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Tuesday, November 24, 2009 11:01 PM Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: Job needed for a young algae eater Does it get out of his tank? Because that will be a problem with my son always opening the glass top of the tank to watch the fish or make them "taste" some cucombers occasionally! There are 2" between the water surface and the upper edge of the tank. And, does the Cherry Shrimp pick on the Fancy Guppies long tails? From what I read it doesn't , but I need some real experience on that. Noura ----- Original Message ----- From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Tuesday, November 24, 2009 2:20 AM Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: Job needed for a young algae eater Who said Cherry Shrimp won't eat algae off of glass? My Cherry Shrimp swim all over the tank (just like fish) and keep the glass as sparkling clean as anything else in their tank. The only algae they seem to not like is filamentous algae, which I had a little bout with when the guppy grass started getting too thick on the surface, blocking too much light from the other plants and the filamentous algae started growing in the guppy grass. I thinned out the guppy grass while pulling out the filamentous algae and since then, I've seen the Cherry Shrimp crawling around more in the guppy grass and I think they might be eating any remnants of the filamentous algae as well. Maybe they just didn't like it when it got too thick in some areas.... or maybe they just don't eat that much of it or preferred other algae's and saved the filamentous algae for last. I'll almost guarantee you that if the only place there is algae is on the glass, they WILL crawl/swim up the glass picking at it till it's all gone. They might go after the stuff on the gravel, decorations, plants, etc., first but after that is gone, they'll get to the algae on the glass as well. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 44692	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 11/24/2009
Subject: Re: The reality of algae

Check on Aquabid.com, like an eBay but for fish stuff. They have the best prices on Cherry Shrimp compared to any retailer. I got my first batch that way and they came shipped in a 16.9 oz. empty water bottle with some Guppy Grass shoved into the bottle first so the shrimp have something to hold onto during the trip. 25 shrimp and the plants were only $15.00, including shipping... I also got some other plants from the same seller. I can't recall the sellers name and did a quick search through my emails and nothing jumped out at me. Maybe I used a different email address during that transaction. As far as how many. 25 would not be too many but you may not need that many... it all depends on the rest of your bioload. Get at least 10. What other fish do you have though? Certain fish will eat the shrimp so you don't want them if you have fish that might eat them. Those would be expensive snacks. The shrimp will clean up your plants and every thing else in the tank. And if there's plenty of algae, they'll start breeding. They're similar to snails in that they are opportunistic breeders. If there's plenty of food, they'll breed plenty.... if there's not much food, they will not breed very much. What website helped you decide that you have "black beard algae"? I've found there is still a lot of misinformation in the naming/identification of the various algae's so let us know. The common names get misused and not much is out there about the scientific names to match up with common names... at least not that I've found to be consistently reliable. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of cat.rose Sent: Tuesday, November 24, 2009 10:10 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: The reality of algae I too have been dealing with the algae situation, but I WISH it was the green stuff! Mine is the uber-ugly black beard algae all over my live plants and also covering the 2 fake plants. I've been trying to (1) pinch off sections, (2) unscrew one of the 2 lightbulbs so there's less light, (3) keep the lights on for less time. It doesn't seem to be going away. I'm going to buy some cherry shrimp per Lenny's advice. I tried going to the Drs. Foster Smith website but it seems they're not available right now - I signed up to be notified when the shrimp are back in stock. I may try to go PetSmart and see if they have them. Question: How many shrimp should I get for a 10 gal tank? I also found the Turbo CO2 Bio-System on their website for only $29.99: "Turbo CO2 Bio-System features a suction cup mounted adjustable venturi powerhead. Fine bubbles of CO2 are injected directly into the water column for maximum CO2 supplementation. The result is vibrant plant growth and vitality. Adjustable powerhead allows controlled CO2 diffusion into aquarium. Simply switch off the powerhead or connect to timer to prevent unwanted nighttime pH drop." I'm thinking maybe I should add this to my tank also? In addition to the above ideas, I'm also debating taking out ALL the plants and tossing them and just starting over. But, maybe I should leave a couple algae covered plants so that the shrimp will have something to eat. ADVICE? I too am not in love with algae, but do realize that it's a normal part of a healthy environment. I just HATE this black beard algae - it's ugly!!! :( ~Catherine~ --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, Lainey Alexander <lainealex@...> wrote: > > Hi Everyone - > > Is it possible to have a fully planted tank with co2, fertilizer, > proper lighting. proper stocking and good care AND not have algae? > > Is it ultimately necessary to use some kind of treatment for algae > such as Flourish Excel or else to live with algae? > > Can algae eaters really control algae in the above tank? > > Why do "amano" style tanks that I see not seem to have algae? Are they > using algaecides? > > :))) > > > Lainey > http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 44693	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 11/24/2009
Subject: Re: The reality of algae

Same to you Amber... that is, same question to you. LOL What website helped you decide that you have "black beard algae". It's good to post a link to a page with a picture so two people will be more certain they are talking about the same thing... this is true for many common names on our fish as well... but especially when dealing with algae's. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Amber Berglund Sent: Tuesday, November 24, 2009 11:47 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: The reality of algae I too have been battling black beard algae in my largest tank (125 gallons). It covers everything it can, powerhead, heaters, filter intakes, plants, decorations, gravel, etc. I have noticed that in my other tanks I have hardly any black beard algae, so I'm wondering what is different in my 55 gallon tanks compared to the 125 gallon. I don't use fertilizers or co2 in any of my tanks either. I have cherry shrimp in one of my 55 gallon tanks, but I don't think they eat black beard algae, anyone out there know if they do/don't eat black beard algae? I've been getting something new growing in my tanks the last few months, and it doesn't look like algae. It looks like curly black hair growing off of stuff, does anyone know what this is called or if I should worry about it? I've been pulling it off the decorations and plants when I notice it. Amber cat.rose wrote: > > I too have been dealing with the algae situation, but I WISH it was > the green stuff! Mine is the uber-ugly black beard algae all over my > live plants and also covering the 2 fake plants. > > I've been trying to (1) pinch off sections, (2) unscrew one of the 2 > lightbulbs so there's less light, (3) keep the lights on for less > time. It doesn't seem to be going away. > > I'm going to buy some cherry shrimp per Lenny's advice. I tried going > to the Drs. Foster Smith website but it seems they're not available > right now - I signed up to be notified when the shrimp are back in > stock. I may try to go PetSmart and see if they have them. Question: > How many shrimp should I get for a 10 gal tank? > > I also found the Turbo CO2 Bio-System on their website for only $29.99: > > "Turbo CO2 Bio-System features a suction cup mounted adjustable > venturi powerhead. Fine bubbles of CO2 are injected directly into the > water column for maximum CO2 supplementation. The result is vibrant > plant growth and vitality. Adjustable powerhead allows controlled CO2 > diffusion into aquarium. Simply switch off the powerhead or connect to > timer to prevent unwanted nighttime pH drop." > > I'm thinking maybe I should add this to my tank also? > > In addition to the above ideas, I'm also debating taking out ALL the > plants and tossing them and just starting over. But, maybe I should > leave a couple algae covered plants so that the shrimp will have > something to eat. ADVICE? > > I too am not in love with algae, but do realize that it's a normal > part of a healthy environment. I just HATE this black beard algae - > it's ugly!!! :( > > ~Catherine~ > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>, Lainey Alexander > <lainealex@...> wrote: > > > > Hi Everyone - > > > > Is it possible to have a fully planted tank with co2, fertilizer, > > proper lighting. proper stocking and good care AND not have algae? > > > > Is it ultimately necessary to use some kind of treatment for algae > > such as Flourish Excel or else to live with algae? > > > > Can algae eaters really control algae in the above tank? > > > > Why do "amano" style tanks that I see not seem to have algae? Are > > they using algaecides? > > > > :))) > > > > > > Lainey > > http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com > > <http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com> > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > ------------------------------------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the home page. Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com to receive the digest, which includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com for the No E-Mail option where you will still be able to read messages on the group and post replies. Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com to receive individual e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 44694	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 11/24/2009
Subject: Re: Job needed for a young algae eater

Cherry shrimp will not jump out of the water unless there is something terribly wrong with your water and they are dieing (such as too much Ammonia from a new/cycling tank), that's the only time I've seen them trying to escape (and they didn't look happy about it, poor things). Also cherry shrimp will not pick on anything else, they are very docile and very small, so if you have anything that might make a snack of it you might want to reconsider getting them. I have guppy's and cory catfish with my shrimp (in a heavily planted tank) and they do very well together. If you have any gourami's or betta's they might eat the young cherry shrimp. Amber N Taweel wrote: > > Does it get out of his tank? Because that will be a problem with my > son always opening the glass top of the tank to watch the fish or make > them "taste" some cucombers occasionally! > There are 2" between the water surface and the upper edge of the tank. > And, does the Cherry Shrimp pick on the Fancy Guppies long tails? From > what I read it doesn't , but I need some real experience on that. > > Noura > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Sent: Tuesday, November 24, 2009 2:20 AM > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: Job needed for a young algae eater > > Who said Cherry Shrimp won't eat algae off of glass? > > My Cherry Shrimp swim all over the tank (just like fish) and keep the > glass > as sparkling clean as anything else in their tank. The only algae they > seem > to not like is filamentous algae, which I had a little bout with when the > guppy grass started getting too thick on the surface, blocking too much > light from the other plants and the filamentous algae started growing > in the > guppy grass. I thinned out the guppy grass while pulling out the > filamentous algae and since then, I've seen the Cherry Shrimp crawling > around more in the guppy grass and I think they might be eating any > remnants > of the filamentous algae as well. Maybe they just didn't like it when it > got too thick in some areas.... or maybe they just don't eat that much > of it > or preferred other algae's and saved the filamentous algae for last. > > I'll almost guarantee you that if the only place there is algae is on the > glass, they WILL crawl/swim up the glass picking at it till it's all gone. > They might go after the stuff on the gravel, decorations, plants, etc., > first but after that is gone, they'll get to the algae on the glass as > well. > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right > side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On > Behalf Of N Taweel > Sent: Monday, November 23, 2009 10:22 AM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: Job needed for a young algae eater > > I remember my mollies -once in the past- did eat the alge from the rocks, > plants, and glass, but did not keep the glass clean at all, even the > magnet > scrubber does a better job, so mollies wouldn't solve the problem. > Lenny, I researched the Cherry Shrimp, and found that it can't solve my > problem because it's only algae on the glass where the shrimp can't > reach or > pick-up. > I think I'll just get two small CAEs, one for each tank, and when they get > big I'll trade them for smaller ones. > Thanks for the help from everyone here. > Noura > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: William M > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Sent: Monday, November 23, 2009 7:21 AM > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Job needed for a young algae eater > > Another fish to consider (if they have them is the otto cat or even the > bushymouth plecos. The otto cats only get to about 1 & 1/2 inches long > whereas the bushymouth plecos can get to be up to 6 inches long > depending on > species. Or you might even try a molly as they will eat algae to a certain > degree. > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>, "noura_taweel" <n-taweel@...> > wrote: > > > > The method I use to tranfer my CAE between the two tanks, is holding him > in a 4" diameter box, filled with about 150ml from the 20G tank's > water,and > then I add 30-40 ml every 10-15 minutes from the 6G all while floating the > plastic container in the 6G to mentain the temperature. then I finally put > the CAE in the 6G, which contains Goupy fry, two live plants, and a few > dozens of MTS snails. The 6G is NOT exposed to sunlight, only daylight > coming through a semi-transparent curtain. The algae is only the green > kind > growing on the glass making an unpleasant sight of the -otherwise- > beautiful > tiny tank. Scrubbing the algae doesn't remove them from all corners and > places. > > The problem now, is that I don't have many choices in finding snails > here in Syria, the LFS rarely even sell them. > > I was thinking, do you think I can buy a new BABY Chinese Algae Eater > and keep him in the 6G until he outgrows it, then take him back to the > LFS? > would that be a good idea in the absence of the suitable snails and Clown > Plecos "which I don't recall seeing at all in the LFSs here"? I would also > mention that there aren't algae wafers here. > > > > Noura-Syria > > > > --- > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 44695	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 11/24/2009
Subject: Re: The reality of algae/Catherine and Amber

I can't use it with snails in my tank, so I'm out (as well as cherry shrimp). I have to figure out a different way. I'm considering using flourish excel in the 125 gallon tank, but that'd be a lot of flourish (good thing I have a bunch on hand that I bought earlier this year for my planted tanks and I have barely touched the stuff so far). Amber bill 1433 wrote: > > Harry is right about the HP. I found my best results were obtained > with a syringe and getting as close as you possibly can to the actual > algae, i.e. direct contact, keeping your fish away from the immediate > area while dosing. The HP dissipates quickly. > > He may or may not be referring to this web-site, again gained through > Goggle: > > http://www.malawicichlidhomepage.com/aquainfo/algae_peroxide.html > <http://www.malawicichlidhomepage.com/aquainfo/algae_peroxide.html> > > This site also shows some examples of "the beast" as well as the type of > syringe used for the dosing. > > Bill > > --- On Tue, 11/24/09, harry perry <harryfisherman@... > <mailto:harryfisherman%40yahoo.com>> wrote: > > From: harry perry <harryfisherman@... > <mailto:harryfisherman%40yahoo.com>> > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: The reality of algae/Catherine > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Date: Tuesday, November 24, 2009, 3:55 PM > > Try adding more plants like Horn Wort. Put your lights on a timer for > 12 fours and feed your plants. Cutting back the light might make it > worse. Htdrogen Peroide works. You use it with an eye dropper. Just > Google it. > > Harry > > --- On Tue, 11/24/09, cat.rose <catrosemail-peace@... > <mailto:catrosemail-peace%40yahoo.com>> wrote: > > From: cat.rose <catrosemail-peace@... > <mailto:catrosemail-peace%40yahoo.com>> > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: The reality of algae > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Date: Tuesday, November 24, 2009, 11:10 AM > >  > > > > > > > I too have been dealing with the algae situation, but I WISH it was > the green stuff! Mine is the uber-ugly black beard algae all over my > live plants and also covering the 2 fake plants. > > I've been trying to (1) pinch off sections, (2) unscrew one of the 2 > lightbulbs so there's less light, (3) keep the lights on for less > time. It doesn't seem to be going away. > > I'm going to buy some cherry shrimp per Lenny's advice. I tried going > to the Drs. Foster Smith website but it seems they're not available > right now - I signed up to be notified when the shrimp are back in > stock. I may try to go PetSmart and see if they have them. Question: > How many shrimp should I get for a 10 gal tank? > > I also found the Turbo CO2 Bio-System on their website for only $29.99: > > "Turbo CO2 Bio-System features a suction cup mounted adjustable > venturi powerhead. Fine bubbles of CO2 are injected directly into the > water column for maximum CO2 supplementation. The result is vibrant > plant growth and vitality. Adjustable powerhead allows controlled CO2 > diffusion into aquarium. Simply switch off the powerhead or connect to > timer to prevent unwanted nighttime pH drop." > > I'm thinking maybe I should add this to my tank also? > > In addition to the above ideas, I'm also debating taking out ALL the > plants and tossing them and just starting over. But, maybe I should > leave a couple algae covered plants so that the shrimp will have > something to eat. ADVICE? > > I too am not in love with algae, but do realize that it's a normal > part of a healthy environment. I just HATE this black beard algae - > it's ugly!!! :( > > ~Catherine~ > > --- In AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com, Lainey Alexander <lainealex@. > ..> wrote: > > > > > > Hi Everyone - > > > > > > Is it possible to have a fully planted tank with co2, fertilizer, > > > proper lighting. proper stocking and good care AND not have algae? > > > > > > Is it ultimately necessary to use some kind of treatment for algae > > > such as Flourish Excel or else to live with algae? > > > > > > Can algae eaters really control algae in the above tank? > > > > > > Why do "amano" style tanks that I see not seem to have algae? Are > > > they using algaecides? > > > > > > :))) > > > > > > > > > Lainey > > > http://www.grasslan dsgouldians. com > > > > > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > ------------------------------------ > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. > ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> > PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT > important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message > MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- > <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. > > If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of unsubscribing, > you can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My > Membership" on the home page. > > Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:aquaticlife-digest%40yahoogroups.com> to receive the digest, > which includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email > > Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:aquaticlife-nomail%40yahoogroups.com> for the No E-Mail option > where you will still be able to read messages on the group and post > replies. > > Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:aquaticlife-normal%40yahoogroups.com> to receive individual > e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 44696	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 11/24/2009
Subject: Re: Job needed for a young algae eater

Wow, that's spendy for tiny little shrimp! I think I got about 10 for less than 10 dollars. Your LFS is either making a killing selling fish or barely staying in business, LOL. Amber N Taweel wrote: > > Unfortunately, I just asked around about the availability of the > Cherry Shrimp here, and was told that it costs around 30$ each. And > it's not even available anytime. > I'm trying to purchase big snails instead. Or will stick to the small > CAEs choice otherwise! > > Noura > ----- Original Message ----- > From: N Taweel > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Sent: Tuesday, November 24, 2009 11:01 PM > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: Job needed for a young algae eater > > Does it get out of his tank? Because that will be a problem with my > son always opening the glass top of the tank to watch the fish or make > them "taste" some cucombers occasionally! > There are 2" between the water surface and the upper edge of the tank. > And, does the Cherry Shrimp pick on the Fancy Guppies long tails? From > what I read it doesn't , but I need some real experience on that. > > Noura > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Sent: Tuesday, November 24, 2009 2:20 AM > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: Job needed for a young algae eater > > Who said Cherry Shrimp won't eat algae off of glass? > > My Cherry Shrimp swim all over the tank (just like fish) and keep the > glass > as sparkling clean as anything else in their tank. The only algae they > seem > to not like is filamentous algae, which I had a little bout with when the > guppy grass started getting too thick on the surface, blocking too much > light from the other plants and the filamentous algae started growing > in the > guppy grass. I thinned out the guppy grass while pulling out the > filamentous algae and since then, I've seen the Cherry Shrimp crawling > around more in the guppy grass and I think they might be eating any > remnants > of the filamentous algae as well. Maybe they just didn't like it when it > got too thick in some areas.... or maybe they just don't eat that much > of it > or preferred other algae's and saved the filamentous algae for last. > > I'll almost guarantee you that if the only place there is algae is on the > glass, they WILL crawl/swim up the glass picking at it till it's all gone. > They might go after the stuff on the gravel, decorations, plants, etc., > first but after that is gone, they'll get to the algae on the glass as > well. > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right > side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 44697	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 11/24/2009
Subject: Re: The reality of algae

Heck if I know, it was a website you sent me to about 6-8 months ago, I went through a bunch of pictures and the only one that looked like what I have was black beard algae. It's thick, very dark green nearly black, furry like a carpet and it's practically glued to stuff, hard to even scrape off with a fingernail. It looks like a japanese moss ball with long hair only it grows on objects/plants and flows in the water (almost pretty if it didn't grow EVERYWHERE), LOL. Amber Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > > Same to you Amber... that is, same question to you. LOL What website > helped > you decide that you have "black beard algae". It's good to post a link > to a > page with a picture so two people will be more certain they are talking > about the same thing... this is true for many common names on our fish as > well... but especially when dealing with algae's. > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right > side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) > > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On > Behalf Of Amber Berglund > Sent: Tuesday, November 24, 2009 11:47 AM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: The reality of algae > > I too have been battling black beard algae in my largest tank (125 > gallons). > It covers everything it can, powerhead, heaters, filter intakes, plants, > decorations, gravel, etc. I have noticed that in my other tanks I have > hardly any black beard algae, so I'm wondering what is different in my 55 > gallon tanks compared to the 125 gallon. I don't use fertilizers or co2 in > any of my tanks either. I have cherry shrimp in one of my 55 gallon tanks, > but I don't think they eat black beard algae, anyone out there know if > they > do/don't eat black beard algae? > I've been getting something new growing in my tanks the last few > months, and > it doesn't look like algae. It looks like curly black hair growing off of > stuff, does anyone know what this is called or if I should worry about it? > I've been pulling it off the decorations and plants when I notice it. > > Amber > > cat.rose wrote: > > > > I too have been dealing with the algae situation, but I WISH it was > > the green stuff! Mine is the uber-ugly black beard algae all over my > > live plants and also covering the 2 fake plants. > > > > I've been trying to (1) pinch off sections, (2) unscrew one of the 2 > > lightbulbs so there's less light, (3) keep the lights on for less > > time. It doesn't seem to be going away. > > > > I'm going to buy some cherry shrimp per Lenny's advice. I tried going > > to the Drs. Foster Smith website but it seems they're not available > > right now - I signed up to be notified when the shrimp are back in > > stock. I may try to go PetSmart and see if they have them. Question: > > How many shrimp should I get for a 10 gal tank? > > > > I also found the Turbo CO2 Bio-System on their website for only $29.99: > > > > "Turbo CO2 Bio-System features a suction cup mounted adjustable > > venturi powerhead. Fine bubbles of CO2 are injected directly into the > > water column for maximum CO2 supplementation. The result is vibrant > > plant growth and vitality. Adjustable powerhead allows controlled CO2 > > diffusion into aquarium. Simply switch off the powerhead or connect to > > timer to prevent unwanted nighttime pH drop." > > > > I'm thinking maybe I should add this to my tank also? > > > > In addition to the above ideas, I'm also debating taking out ALL the > > plants and tossing them and just starting over. But, maybe I should > > leave a couple algae covered plants so that the shrimp will have > > something to eat. ADVICE? > > > > I too am not in love with algae, but do realize that it's a normal > > part of a healthy environment. I just HATE this black beard algae - > > it's ugly!!! :( > > > > ~Catherine~ > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>, Lainey Alexander > > <lainealex@...> wrote: > > > > > > Hi Everyone - > > > > > > Is it possible to have a fully planted tank with co2, fertilizer, > > > proper lighting. proper stocking and good care AND not have algae? > > > > > > Is it ultimately necessary to use some kind of treatment for algae > > > such as Flourish Excel or else to live with algae? > > > > > > Can algae eaters really control algae in the above tank? > > > > > > Why do "amano" style tanks that I see not seem to have algae? Are > > > they using algaecides? > > > > > > :))) > > > > > > > > > Lainey > > > http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com > <http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com> > > > <http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com > <http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com>> > > > > > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > > > > > > ------------------------------------ > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. > ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> > PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to > the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the > SUBJECT > LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- > <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. > > If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of unsubscribing, you > can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the > home page. > > Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:aquaticlife-digest%40yahoogroups.com> to receive the digest, which > includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email > > Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:aquaticlife-nomail%40yahoogroups.com> for the No E-Mail option > where > you will still be able to read messages on the group and post replies. > > Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:aquaticlife-normal%40yahoogroups.com> to receive individual > e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 44698	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 11/24/2009
Subject: Re: The reality of algae

I did a google search and found a site with a picture that looks just like my algae (black beard) growing in all of my tanks. http://www.fish-keeper.net/Forum/index.php?/topic/7318-aquarium-algae/ The site says to increase co2 to 30ppm and that'll help combat the black beard algae (also plant lots of fast growing plants). Guess I will move some of my plant clippings from my 55 gallon down to the 125 gallon and see how fast they grow, the tank is pretty well planted though. Also looking over those pictures and descriptions, it looks like I recently had some cyanobacteria growing in my 125 gallon tank (which I quickly removed as much as I could), I will have to keep an eye out and see if/when it comes back. I wonder if the other stuff I described was also cyanobacteria, or if it was some form of hair algae (greenish black, long and very curly looking, feels weird when you touch it, almost like very thick hair). Amber Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > > Same to you Amber... that is, same question to you. LOL What website > helped > you decide that you have "black beard algae". It's good to post a link > to a > page with a picture so two people will be more certain they are talking > about the same thing... this is true for many common names on our fish as > well... but especially when dealing with algae's. > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right > side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) > > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On > Behalf Of Amber Berglund > Sent: Tuesday, November 24, 2009 11:47 AM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: The reality of algae > > I too have been battling black beard algae in my largest tank (125 > gallons). > It covers everything it can, powerhead, heaters, filter intakes, plants, > decorations, gravel, etc. I have noticed that in my other tanks I have > hardly any black beard algae, so I'm wondering what is different in my 55 > gallon tanks compared to the 125 gallon. I don't use fertilizers or co2 in > any of my tanks either. I have cherry shrimp in one of my 55 gallon tanks, > but I don't think they eat black beard algae, anyone out there know if > they > do/don't eat black beard algae? > I've been getting something new growing in my tanks the last few > months, and > it doesn't look like algae. It looks like curly black hair growing off of > stuff, does anyone know what this is called or if I should worry about it? > I've been pulling it off the decorations and plants when I notice it. > > Amber > > cat.rose wrote: > > > > I too have been dealing with the algae situation, but I WISH it was > > the green stuff! Mine is the uber-ugly black beard algae all over my > > live plants and also covering the 2 fake plants. > > > > I've been trying to (1) pinch off sections, (2) unscrew one of the 2 > > lightbulbs so there's less light, (3) keep the lights on for less > > time. It doesn't seem to be going away. > > > > I'm going to buy some cherry shrimp per Lenny's advice. I tried going > > to the Drs. Foster Smith website but it seems they're not available > > right now - I signed up to be notified when the shrimp are back in > > stock. I may try to go PetSmart and see if they have them. Question: > > How many shrimp should I get for a 10 gal tank? > > > > I also found the Turbo CO2 Bio-System on their website for only $29.99: > > > > "Turbo CO2 Bio-System features a suction cup mounted adjustable > > venturi powerhead. Fine bubbles of CO2 are injected directly into the > > water column for maximum CO2 supplementation. The result is vibrant > > plant growth and vitality. Adjustable powerhead allows controlled CO2 > > diffusion into aquarium. Simply switch off the powerhead or connect to > > timer to prevent unwanted nighttime pH drop." > > > > I'm thinking maybe I should add this to my tank also? > > > > In addition to the above ideas, I'm also debating taking out ALL the > > plants and tossing them and just starting over. But, maybe I should > > leave a couple algae covered plants so that the shrimp will have > > something to eat. ADVICE? > > > > I too am not in love with algae, but do realize that it's a normal > > part of a healthy environment. I just HATE this black beard algae - > > it's ugly!!! :( > > > > ~Catherine~ > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>, Lainey Alexander > > <lainealex@...> wrote: > > > > > > Hi Everyone - > > > > > > Is it possible to have a fully planted tank with co2, fertilizer, > > > proper lighting. proper stocking and good care AND not have algae? > > > > > > Is it ultimately necessary to use some kind of treatment for algae > > > such as Flourish Excel or else to live with algae? > > > > > > Can algae eaters really control algae in the above tank? > > > > > > Why do "amano" style tanks that I see not seem to have algae? Are > > > they using algaecides? > > > > > > :))) > > > > > > > > > Lainey > > > http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com > <http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com> > > > <http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com > <http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com>> > > > > > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > > > > > > ------------------------------------ > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. > ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> > PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to > the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the > SUBJECT > LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- > <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. > > If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of unsubscribing, you > can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the > home page. > > Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:aquaticlife-digest%40yahoogroups.com> to receive the digest, which > includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email > > Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:aquaticlife-nomail%40yahoogroups.com> for the No E-Mail option > where > you will still be able to read messages on the group and post replies. > > Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:aquaticlife-normal%40yahoogroups.com> to receive individual > e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 44699	From: Deenerz@aol.com	Date: 11/24/2009
Subject: Re: Job needed for a young algae eater

Amber, Noura lives in Syria. She may or may not have more trouble than you in getting fish, inverts, and supplies. -Mike -----Original Message----- From: Amber Berglund <arberglund@...> To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Tue, Nov 24, 2009 2:57 pm Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: Job needed for a young algae eater Wow, that's spendy for tiny little shrimp! I think I got about 10 for less than 10 dollars. Your LFS is either making a killing selling fish or barely staying in business, LOL. Amber N Taweel wrote: > > Unfortunately, I just asked around about the availability of the > Cherry Shrimp here, and was told that it costs around 30$ each. And > it's not even available anytime. > I'm trying to purchase big snails instead. Or will stick to the small > CAEs choice otherwise! > > Noura > ----- Original Message ----- > From: N Taweel > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Sent: Tuesday, November 24, 2009 11:01 PM > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: Job needed for a young algae eater > > Does it get out of his tank? Because that will be a problem with my > son always opening the glass top of the tank to watch the fish or make > them "taste" some cucombers occasionally! > There are 2" between the water surface and the upper edge of the tank. > And, does the Cherry Shrimp pick on the Fancy Guppies long tails? From > what I read it doesn't , but I need some real experience on that. > > Noura > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Sent: Tuesday, November 24, 2009 2:20 AM > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: Job needed for a young algae eater > > Who said Cherry Shrimp won't eat algae off of glass? > > My Cherry Shrimp swim all over the tank (just like fish) and keep the > glass > as sparkling clean as anything else in their tank. The only algae they > seem > to not like is filamentous algae, which I had a little bout with when the > guppy grass started getting too thick on the surface, blocking too much > light from the other plants and the filamentous algae started growing > in the > guppy grass. I thinned out the guppy grass while pulling out the > filamentous algae and since then, I've seen the Cherry Shrimp crawling > around more in the guppy grass and I think they might be eating any > remnants > of the filamentous algae as well. Maybe they just didn't like it when it > got too thick in some areas.... or maybe they just don't eat that much > of it > or preferred other algae's and saved the filamentous algae for last. > > I'll almost guarantee you that if the only place there is algae is on the > glass, they WILL crawl/swim up the glass picking at it till it's all gone. > They might go after the stuff on the gravel, decorations, plants, etc., > first but after that is gone, they'll get to the algae on the glass as > well. > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right > side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > ------------------------------------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the home page. Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com to receive the digest, which includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com for the No E-Mail option where you will still be able to read messages on the group and post replies. Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com to receive individual e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 44700	From: Lainey Alexander	Date: 11/24/2009
Subject: Re: The reality of algae/Catherine and Amber

I just killed my favorite fish with the label dose of Flourish Excel:( Bumblebee goby. Lainey http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com On Nov 24, 2009, at 5:55 PM, Amber Berglund wrote: > I can't use it with snails in my tank, so I'm out (as well as cherry > shrimp). I have to figure out a different way. I'm considering using > flourish excel in the 125 gallon tank, but that'd be a lot of flourish > (good thing I have a bunch on hand that I bought earlier this year for > my planted tanks and I have barely touched the stuff so far). > > Amber > > bill 1433 wrote: >> >> Harry is right about the HP. I found my best results were obtained >> with a syringe and getting as close as you possibly can to the actual >> algae, i.e. direct contact, keeping your fish away from the immediate >> area while dosing. The HP dissipates quickly. >> >> He may or may not be referring to this web-site, again gained through >> Goggle: >> >> http://www.malawicichlidhomepage.com/aquainfo/algae_peroxide.html >> <http://www.malawicichlidhomepage.com/aquainfo/algae_peroxide.html> >> >> This site also shows some examples of "the beast" as well as the >> type of >> syringe used for the dosing. >> >> Bill >> >> --- On Tue, 11/24/09, harry perry <harryfisherman@... >> <mailto:harryfisherman%40yahoo.com>> wrote: >> >> From: harry perry <harryfisherman@... >> <mailto:harryfisherman%40yahoo.com>> >> Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: The reality of algae/Catherine >> To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife% >> 40yahoogroups.com> >> Date: Tuesday, November 24, 2009, 3:55 PM >> >> Try adding more plants like Horn Wort. Put your lights on a timer for >> 12 fours and feed your plants. Cutting back the light might make it >> worse. Htdrogen Peroide works. You use it with an eye dropper. Just >> Google it. >> >> Harry >> >> --- On Tue, 11/24/09, cat.rose <catrosemail-peace@... >> <mailto:catrosemail-peace%40yahoo.com>> wrote: >> >> From: cat.rose <catrosemail-peace@... >> <mailto:catrosemail-peace%40yahoo.com>> >> Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: The reality of algae >> To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife% >> 40yahoogroups.com> >> Date: Tuesday, November 24, 2009, 11:10 AM >> >>  >> >> >> >> >> >> >> I too have been dealing with the algae situation, but I WISH it was >> the green stuff! Mine is the uber-ugly black beard algae all over my >> live plants and also covering the 2 fake plants. >> >> I've been trying to (1) pinch off sections, (2) unscrew one of the 2 >> lightbulbs so there's less light, (3) keep the lights on for less >> time. It doesn't seem to be going away. >> >> I'm going to buy some cherry shrimp per Lenny's advice. I tried going >> to the Drs. Foster Smith website but it seems they're not available >> right now - I signed up to be notified when the shrimp are back in >> stock. I may try to go PetSmart and see if they have them. Question: >> How many shrimp should I get for a 10 gal tank? >> >> I also found the Turbo CO2 Bio-System on their website for only >> $29.99: >> >> "Turbo CO2 Bio-System features a suction cup mounted adjustable >> venturi powerhead. Fine bubbles of CO2 are injected directly into the >> water column for maximum CO2 supplementation. The result is vibrant >> plant growth and vitality. Adjustable powerhead allows controlled CO2 >> diffusion into aquarium. Simply switch off the powerhead or >> connect to >> timer to prevent unwanted nighttime pH drop." >> >> I'm thinking maybe I should add this to my tank also? >> >> In addition to the above ideas, I'm also debating taking out ALL the >> plants and tossing them and just starting over. But, maybe I should >> leave a couple algae covered plants so that the shrimp will have >> something to eat. ADVICE? >> >> I too am not in love with algae, but do realize that it's a normal >> part of a healthy environment. I just HATE this black beard algae - >> it's ugly!!! :( >> >> ~Catherine~ >> >> --- In AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com, Lainey Alexander <lainealex@. >> ..> wrote: >> >>> >> >>> Hi Everyone - >> >>> >> >>> Is it possible to have a fully planted tank with co2, fertilizer, >> >>> proper lighting. proper stocking and good care AND not have algae? >> >>> >> >>> Is it ultimately necessary to use some kind of treatment for algae >> >>> such as Flourish Excel or else to live with algae? >> >>> >> >>> Can algae eaters really control algae in the above tank? >> >>> >> >>> Why do "amano" style tanks that I see not seem to have algae? Are >> >>> they using algaecides? >> >>> >> >>> :))) >> >>> >> >>> >> >>> Lainey >> >>> http://www.grasslan dsgouldians. com >> >>> >> >>> >> >>> >> >>> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] >> >>> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] >> >> ------------------------------------ >> >> Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, >> Thank You. >> ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..>< >> ((((º> >> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT >> important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original >> message >> MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old >> subject)" <- >> <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><· >> ´¯`·.¸¸. >> We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. >> >> If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of >> unsubscribing, >> you can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My >> Membership" on the home page. >> >> Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com >> <mailto:aquaticlife-digest%40yahoogroups.com> to receive the digest, >> which includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email >> >> Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com >> <mailto:aquaticlife-nomail%40yahoogroups.com> for the No E-Mail >> option >> where you will still be able to read messages on the group and post >> replies. >> >> Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com >> <mailto:aquaticlife-normal%40yahoogroups.com> to receive individual >> e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links >> >> > > > ------------------------------------ > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, > Thank You. > ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..>< > ((((º> > PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT > important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original > message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old > subject)" <- > <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><· > ´¯`·.¸¸. > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. > > If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of > unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by clicking on > "Edit My Membership" on the home page. > > Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com to receive the digest, > which includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email > > Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com for the No E-Mail > option where you will still be able to read messages on the group > and post replies. > > Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com to receive individual e- > mails.Yahoo! Groups Links > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 44701	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 11/24/2009
Subject: Re: The reality of algae/Catherine and Amber

Amber, Hydrogen peroxide quickly becomes water when placed in water. In what way is it bad for your shrimp and snails? \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Amber Berglund Sent: Tuesday, November 24, 2009 5:56 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: The reality of algae/Catherine and Amber I can't use it with snails in my tank, so I'm out (as well as cherry shrimp). I have to figure out a different way. I'm considering using flourish excel in the 125 gallon tank, but that'd be a lot of flourish (good thing I have a bunch on hand that I bought earlier this year for my planted tanks and I have barely touched the stuff so far). Amber bill 1433 wrote: > > Harry is right about the HP. I found my best results were obtained > with a syringe and getting as close as you possibly can to the actual > algae, i.e. direct contact, keeping your fish away from the immediate > area while dosing. The HP dissipates quickly. > > He may or may not be referring to this web-site, again gained through > Goggle: > > http://www.malawicichlidhomepage.com/aquainfo/algae_peroxide.html > <http://www.malawicichlidhomepage.com/aquainfo/algae_peroxide.html> > > This site also shows some examples of "the beast" as well as the type of > syringe used for the dosing. > > Bill > > --- On Tue, 11/24/09, harry perry <harryfisherman@... > <mailto:harryfisherman%40yahoo.com>> wrote: > > From: harry perry <harryfisherman@... > <mailto:harryfisherman%40yahoo.com>> > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: The reality of algae/Catherine > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Date: Tuesday, November 24, 2009, 3:55 PM > > Try adding more plants like Horn Wort. Put your lights on a timer for > 12 fours and feed your plants. Cutting back the light might make it > worse. Htdrogen Peroide works. You use it with an eye dropper. Just > Google it. > > Harry > > --- On Tue, 11/24/09, cat.rose <catrosemail-peace@... > <mailto:catrosemail-peace%40yahoo.com>> wrote: > > From: cat.rose <catrosemail-peace@... > <mailto:catrosemail-peace%40yahoo.com>> > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: The reality of algae > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Date: Tuesday, November 24, 2009, 11:10 AM > > Â > > > > > > > I too have been dealing with the algae situation, but I WISH it was > the green stuff! Mine is the uber-ugly black beard algae all over my > live plants and also covering the 2 fake plants. > > I've been trying to (1) pinch off sections, (2) unscrew one of the 2 > lightbulbs so there's less light, (3) keep the lights on for less > time. It doesn't seem to be going away. > > I'm going to buy some cherry shrimp per Lenny's advice. I tried going > to the Drs. Foster Smith website but it seems they're not available > right now - I signed up to be notified when the shrimp are back in > stock. I may try to go PetSmart and see if they have them. Question: > How many shrimp should I get for a 10 gal tank? > > I also found the Turbo CO2 Bio-System on their website for only $29.99: > > "Turbo CO2 Bio-System features a suction cup mounted adjustable > venturi powerhead. Fine bubbles of CO2 are injected directly into the > water column for maximum CO2 supplementation. The result is vibrant > plant growth and vitality. Adjustable powerhead allows controlled CO2 > diffusion into aquarium. Simply switch off the powerhead or connect to > timer to prevent unwanted nighttime pH drop." > > I'm thinking maybe I should add this to my tank also? > > In addition to the above ideas, I'm also debating taking out ALL the > plants and tossing them and just starting over. But, maybe I should > leave a couple algae covered plants so that the shrimp will have > something to eat. ADVICE? > > I too am not in love with algae, but do realize that it's a normal > part of a healthy environment. I just HATE this black beard algae - > it's ugly!!! :( > > ~Catherine~ > > --- In AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com, Lainey Alexander <lainealex@. > ..> wrote: > > > > > > Hi Everyone - > > > > > > Is it possible to have a fully planted tank with co2, fertilizer, > > > proper lighting. proper stocking and good care AND not have algae? > > > > > > Is it ultimately necessary to use some kind of treatment for algae > > > such as Flourish Excel or else to live with algae? > > > > > > Can algae eaters really control algae in the above tank? > > > > > > Why do "amano" style tanks that I see not seem to have algae? Are > > > they using algaecides? > > > > > > :))) > > > > > > > > > Lainey > > > http://www.grasslan dsgouldians. com >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 44702	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 11/24/2009
Subject: Re: Job needed for a young algae eater

I know this, but at the same time 30 dollars for one tiny shrimp is a bit over priced IMO ;) Amber Deenerz@... wrote: > > > Amber, > > Noura lives in Syria. > She may or may not have more trouble than you in getting fish, inverts, > and supplies. > > -Mike > > -----Original Message----- > From: Amber Berglund <arberglund@... > <mailto:arberglund%40gmail.com>> > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Sent: Tue, Nov 24, 2009 2:57 pm > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: Job needed for a young algae eater > > Wow, that's spendy for tiny little shrimp! > I think I got about 10 for less than 10 dollars. Your LFS is either > making a killing selling fish or barely staying in business, LOL. > > Amber > > N Taweel wrote: > > > > Unfortunately, I just asked around about the availability of the > > Cherry Shrimp here, and was told that it costs around 30$ each. And > > it's not even available anytime. > > I'm trying to purchase big snails instead. Or will stick to the small > > CAEs choice otherwise! > > > > Noura > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: N Taweel > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > Sent: Tuesday, November 24, 2009 11:01 PM > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: Job needed for a young algae eater > > > > Does it get out of his tank? Because that will be a problem with my > > son always opening the glass top of the tank to watch the fish or > make > > them "taste" some cucombers occasionally! > > There are 2" between the water surface and the upper edge of the tank. > > And, does the Cherry Shrimp pick on the Fancy Guppies long tails? > From > > what I read it doesn't , but I need some real experience on that. > > > > Noura > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > Sent: Tuesday, November 24, 2009 2:20 AM > > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: Job needed for a young algae eater > > > > Who said Cherry Shrimp won't eat algae off of glass? > > > > My Cherry Shrimp swim all over the tank (just like fish) and keep the > > glass > > as sparkling clean as anything else in their tank. The only algae > they > > seem > > to not like is filamentous algae, which I had a little bout with when > the > > guppy grass started getting too thick on the surface, blocking too > much > > light from the other plants and the filamentous algae started growing > > in the > > guppy grass. I thinned out the guppy grass while pulling out the > > filamentous algae and since then, I've seen the Cherry Shrimp crawling > > around more in the guppy grass and I think they might be eating any > > remnants > > of the filamentous algae as well. Maybe they just didn't like it when > it > > got too thick in some areas.... or maybe they just don't eat that > much > > of it > > or preferred other algae's and saved the filamentous algae for last. > > > > I'll almost guarantee you that if the only place there is algae is on > the > > glass, they WILL crawl/swim up the glass picking at it till it's all > gone. > > They might go after the stuff on the gravel, decorations, plants, > etc., > > first but after that is gone, they'll get to the algae on the glass > as > > well. > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>> > > (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the > right > > side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, > Month) > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > > > ------------------------------------ > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank > You. > ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> > PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important > to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the > SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- > <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. > > If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of unsubscribing, > you can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My Membership" > on the home page. > > Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:aquaticlife-digest%40yahoogroups.com> to receive the digest, > which includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email > > Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:aquaticlife-nomail%40yahoogroups.com> for the No E-Mail option > where you will still be able to read messages on the group and post > replies. > > Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:aquaticlife-normal%40yahoogroups.com> to receive individual > e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 44703	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 11/24/2009
Subject: Re: The reality of algae/Catherine and Amber

Ask Lenny, I think he's the one that said it's not safe for shrimp/snails (invertebrates). All I know is that I asked and got several NO!'s ;) LOL Amber Steve Szabo wrote: > > Amber, > > Hydrogen peroxide quickly becomes water when placed in water. In what > way is > it bad for your shrimp and snails? > > \\Steve// > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On > Behalf Of Amber Berglund > Sent: Tuesday, November 24, 2009 5:56 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: The reality of algae/Catherine and Amber > > I can't use it with snails in my tank, so I'm out (as well as cherry > shrimp). I have to figure out a different way. I'm considering using > flourish excel in the 125 gallon tank, but that'd be a lot of flourish > (good thing I have a bunch on hand that I bought earlier this year for > my planted tanks and I have barely touched the stuff so far). > > Amber > > bill 1433 wrote: > > > > Harry is right about the HP. I found my best results were obtained > > with a syringe and getting as close as you possibly can to the actual > > algae, i.e. direct contact, keeping your fish away from the immediate > > area while dosing. The HP dissipates quickly. > > > > He may or may not be referring to this web-site, again gained through > > Goggle: > > > > http://www.malawicichlidhomepage.com/aquainfo/algae_peroxide.html > <http://www.malawicichlidhomepage.com/aquainfo/algae_peroxide.html> > > <http://www.malawicichlidhomepage.com/aquainfo/algae_peroxide.html > <http://www.malawicichlidhomepage.com/aquainfo/algae_peroxide.html>> > > > > This site also shows some examples of "the beast" as well as the type of > > syringe used for the dosing. > > > > Bill > > > > --- On Tue, 11/24/09, harry perry <harryfisherman@... > <mailto:harryfisherman%40yahoo.com> > > <mailto:harryfisherman%40yahoo.com>> wrote: > > > > From: harry perry <harryfisherman@... > <mailto:harryfisherman%40yahoo.com> > > <mailto:harryfisherman%40yahoo.com>> > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: The reality of algae/Catherine > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > Date: Tuesday, November 24, 2009, 3:55 PM > > > > Try adding more plants like Horn Wort. Put your lights on a timer for > > 12 fours and feed your plants. Cutting back the light might make it > > worse. Htdrogen Peroide works. You use it with an eye dropper. Just > > Google it. > > > > Harry > > > > --- On Tue, 11/24/09, cat.rose <catrosemail-peace@... > <mailto:catrosemail-peace%40yahoo.com> > > <mailto:catrosemail-peace%40yahoo.com>> wrote: > > > > From: cat.rose <catrosemail-peace@... > <mailto:catrosemail-peace%40yahoo.com> > > <mailto:catrosemail-peace%40yahoo.com>> > > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: The reality of algae > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > Date: Tuesday, November 24, 2009, 11:10 AM > > > > Â > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I too have been dealing with the algae situation, but I WISH it was > > the green stuff! Mine is the uber-ugly black beard algae all over my > > live plants and also covering the 2 fake plants. > > > > I've been trying to (1) pinch off sections, (2) unscrew one of the 2 > > lightbulbs so there's less light, (3) keep the lights on for less > > time. It doesn't seem to be going away. > > > > I'm going to buy some cherry shrimp per Lenny's advice. I tried going > > to the Drs. Foster Smith website but it seems they're not available > > right now - I signed up to be notified when the shrimp are back in > > stock. I may try to go PetSmart and see if they have them. Question: > > How many shrimp should I get for a 10 gal tank? > > > > I also found the Turbo CO2 Bio-System on their website for only $29.99: > > > > "Turbo CO2 Bio-System features a suction cup mounted adjustable > > venturi powerhead. Fine bubbles of CO2 are injected directly into the > > water column for maximum CO2 supplementation. The result is vibrant > > plant growth and vitality. Adjustable powerhead allows controlled CO2 > > diffusion into aquarium. Simply switch off the powerhead or connect to > > timer to prevent unwanted nighttime pH drop." > > > > I'm thinking maybe I should add this to my tank also? > > > > In addition to the above ideas, I'm also debating taking out ALL the > > plants and tossing them and just starting over. But, maybe I should > > leave a couple algae covered plants so that the shrimp will have > > something to eat. ADVICE? > > > > I too am not in love with algae, but do realize that it's a normal > > part of a healthy environment. I just HATE this black beard algae - > > it's ugly!!! :( > > > > ~Catherine~ > > > > --- In AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com, Lainey Alexander <lainealex@. > > ..> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > Hi Everyone - > > > > > > > > > > Is it possible to have a fully planted tank with co2, fertilizer, > > > > > proper lighting. proper stocking and good care AND not have algae? > > > > > > > > > > Is it ultimately necessary to use some kind of treatment for algae > > > > > such as Flourish Excel or else to live with algae? > > > > > > > > > > Can algae eaters really control algae in the above tank? > > > > > > > > > > Why do "amano" style tanks that I see not seem to have algae? Are > > > > > they using algaecides? > > > > > > > > > > :))) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Lainey > > > > > http://www.grasslan dsgouldians. com > > > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 44704	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 11/24/2009
Subject: Re: The reality of algae

Well, if you ever do a Google Image search with "black beard algae" in the search field, you'll find LOTS of photos of lots of things and many photos of algae that are not all the same thing. Here's a couple that show completely opposite algae's calling both of them "black beard algae" (This top link is actually a legitimate and good site and the rest of the article is about plant keeping, algae, etc. so the OP may want to read all of this article). http://images.google.com/imgres?imgurl=http://www.americanaquariumproducts.c om/images/graphics/bbalgae2.jpg&imgrefurl=http://www.americanaquariumproduct s.com/AquariumPlants.html&usg=__p-Qt0nhIjRMqGZ-Do31N1RuMH74=&h=375&w=375&sz= 78&hl=en&start=4&um=1&tbnid=AtlpHIjRJxzFCM:&tbnh=122&tbnw=122&prev=/images%3 Fq%3D%2522black%2Bbeard%2Balgae%2522%26hl%3Den%26sa%3DN%26um%3D1 TinyURL - http://preview.tinyurl.com/yfgekus The image at the top of this Google Image page can be found in the actual article almost all the way down at the bottom when the article starts talking about the various algae's. You will see that he actually mentions the scientific name in the first sentence about BBA (black beard algae)... "Black beard algae is a form of "red algae" in the genus Audouinella..." This next site shows a completely different species but still calls it black beard algae... http://images.google.com/imgres?imgurl=http://bp0.blogger.com/_mUCRl2kFWHY/R f_nx6WEmwI/AAAAAAAAALA/uduIApc_CAo/s400/samit_aquarium_50.jpg&imgrefurl=http ://aquasamit.blogspot.com/2007/03/black-beard-algae.html&usg=__qZqLUMOvn0dvb mnFwa8EJlqz0xE=&h=300&w=400&sz=24&hl=en&start=6&um=1&tbnid=b5pwXP-rZ26GAM:&t bnh=93&tbnw=124&prev=/images%3Fq%3D%2522black%2Bbeard%2Balgae%2522%26hl%3Den %26sa%3DN%26um%3D1 TinyURL - http://preview.tinyurl.com/yk3z6by There are many other examples. One thing you will notice in the search returns showing 20 thumbnail images per page, is that the same picture will show up on several different websites. So if one person gets it wrong and others copy the first person, pretty soon, there are many sites with the wrong image. I tend to believe the top link BUT I've also seen the image from the bottom link used in other good websites. The problem, once again, lies in that they could both be right when it comes to using common names. Now, if you add the genus, Audouinella, to your search terms so it looks like this... "black beard algae" Audouinella ..., you will probably find better hits. I just did it and you won't believe how many other websites not only use the image from AmericanAquariumProducts.com (top link) but actually plagiarized his words as well. Don't worry.... as a blogger and believer in the internet as a GREAT resource, I'm not bad mouthing the internet as there are MANY books out there with LOTS of bad information in them as well... and not just about fish keeping. At least the internet is free and you can easily cross check information and even triple-check them in the many forums, which is not so easy to do with books. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Amber Berglund Sent: Tuesday, November 24, 2009 5:01 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: The reality of algae Heck if I know, it was a website you sent me to about 6-8 months ago, I went through a bunch of pictures and the only one that looked like what I have was black beard algae. It's thick, very dark green nearly black, furry like a carpet and it's practically glued to stuff, hard to even scrape off with a fingernail. It looks like a japanese moss ball with long hair only it grows on objects/plants and flows in the water (almost pretty if it didn't grow EVERYWHERE), LOL. Amber Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > > Same to you Amber... that is, same question to you. LOL What website > helped > you decide that you have "black beard algae". It's good to post a link > to a > page with a picture so two people will be more certain they are talking > about the same thing... this is true for many common names on our fish as > well... but especially when dealing with algae's. > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right > side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) > > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On > Behalf Of Amber Berglund > Sent: Tuesday, November 24, 2009 11:47 AM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: The reality of algae > > I too have been battling black beard algae in my largest tank (125 > gallons). > It covers everything it can, powerhead, heaters, filter intakes, plants, > decorations, gravel, etc. I have noticed that in my other tanks I have > hardly any black beard algae, so I'm wondering what is different in my 55 > gallon tanks compared to the 125 gallon. I don't use fertilizers or co2 in > any of my tanks either. I have cherry shrimp in one of my 55 gallon tanks, > but I don't think they eat black beard algae, anyone out there know if > they > do/don't eat black beard algae? > I've been getting something new growing in my tanks the last few > months, and > it doesn't look like algae. It looks like curly black hair growing off of > stuff, does anyone know what this is called or if I should worry about it? > I've been pulling it off the decorations and plants when I notice it. > > Amber > > cat.rose wrote: > > > > I too have been dealing with the algae situation, but I WISH it was > > the green stuff! Mine is the uber-ugly black beard algae all over my > > live plants and also covering the 2 fake plants. > > > > I've been trying to (1) pinch off sections, (2) unscrew one of the 2 > > lightbulbs so there's less light, (3) keep the lights on for less > > time. It doesn't seem to be going away. > > > > I'm going to buy some cherry shrimp per Lenny's advice. I tried going > > to the Drs. Foster Smith website but it seems they're not available > > right now - I signed up to be notified when the shrimp are back in > > stock. I may try to go PetSmart and see if they have them. Question: > > How many shrimp should I get for a 10 gal tank? > > > > I also found the Turbo CO2 Bio-System on their website for only $29.99: > > > > "Turbo CO2 Bio-System features a suction cup mounted adjustable > > venturi powerhead. Fine bubbles of CO2 are injected directly into the > > water column for maximum CO2 supplementation. The result is vibrant > > plant growth and vitality. Adjustable powerhead allows controlled CO2 > > diffusion into aquarium. Simply switch off the powerhead or connect to > > timer to prevent unwanted nighttime pH drop." > > > > I'm thinking maybe I should add this to my tank also? > > > > In addition to the above ideas, I'm also debating taking out ALL the > > plants and tossing them and just starting over. But, maybe I should > > leave a couple algae covered plants so that the shrimp will have > > something to eat. ADVICE? > > > > I too am not in love with algae, but do realize that it's a normal > > part of a healthy environment. I just HATE this black beard algae - > > it's ugly!!! :( > > > > ~Catherine~ > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>, Lainey Alexander > > <lainealex@...> wrote: > > > > > > Hi Everyone - > > > > > > Is it possible to have a fully planted tank with co2, fertilizer, > > > proper lighting. proper stocking and good care AND not have algae? > > > > > > Is it ultimately necessary to use some kind of treatment for algae > > > such as Flourish Excel or else to live with algae? > > > > > > Can algae eaters really control algae in the above tank? > > > > > > Why do "amano" style tanks that I see not seem to have algae? Are > > > they using algaecides? > > > > > > :))) > > > > > > > > > Lainey > > > http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com > <http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com> > > > <http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com > <http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com>>

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 44705	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 11/24/2009
Subject: Re: Job needed for a young algae eater

I've never had a Cherry Shrimp try to escape, unlike some snails which can crawl up out of an opening, so a tank with snails should be kept covered. Cherry Shrimp do NOT have claws or pinchers and are strictly herbivores so they will not bother the fish. They eat algae, dead plant matter, etc., which is why they are used (as well as other shrimp species) in planted tanks. Cherry shrimp will not harm live plants. They will eat algae based fish foods although these may not be the best thing for the shrimp since most algae based foods still have stuff other than algae in them. Many are around 50% protein from fish meal, etc. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of N Taweel Sent: Tuesday, November 24, 2009 3:02 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: Job needed for a young algae eater Does it get out of his tank? Because that will be a problem with my son always opening the glass top of the tank to watch the fish or make them "taste" some cucombers occasionally! There are 2" between the water surface and the upper edge of the tank. And, does the Cherry Shrimp pick on the Fancy Guppies long tails? From what I read it doesn't , but I need some real experience on that. Noura ----- Original Message ----- From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Tuesday, November 24, 2009 2:20 AM Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: Job needed for a young algae eater Who said Cherry Shrimp won't eat algae off of glass? My Cherry Shrimp swim all over the tank (just like fish) and keep the glass as sparkling clean as anything else in their tank. The only algae they seem to not like is filamentous algae, which I had a little bout with when the guppy grass started getting too thick on the surface, blocking too much light from the other plants and the filamentous algae started growing in the guppy grass. I thinned out the guppy grass while pulling out the filamentous algae and since then, I've seen the Cherry Shrimp crawling around more in the guppy grass and I think they might be eating any remnants of the filamentous algae as well. Maybe they just didn't like it when it got too thick in some areas.... or maybe they just don't eat that much of it or preferred other algae's and saved the filamentous algae for last. I'll almost guarantee you that if the only place there is algae is on the glass, they WILL crawl/swim up the glass picking at it till it's all gone. They might go after the stuff on the gravel, decorations, plants, etc., first but after that is gone, they'll get to the algae on the glass as well. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of N Taweel Sent: Monday, November 23, 2009 10:22 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: Job needed for a young algae eater I remember my mollies -once in the past- did eat the alge from the rocks, plants, and glass, but did not keep the glass clean at all, even the magnet scrubber does a better job, so mollies wouldn't solve the problem. Lenny, I researched the Cherry Shrimp, and found that it can't solve my problem because it's only algae on the glass where the shrimp can't reach or pick-up. I think I'll just get two small CAEs, one for each tank, and when they get big I'll trade them for smaller ones. Thanks for the help from everyone here. Noura ----- Original Message ----- From: William M To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Monday, November 23, 2009 7:21 AM Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Job needed for a young algae eater Another fish to consider (if they have them is the otto cat or even the bushymouth plecos. The otto cats only get to about 1 & 1/2 inches long whereas the bushymouth plecos can get to be up to 6 inches long depending on species. Or you might even try a molly as they will eat algae to a certain degree. --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "noura_taweel" <n-taweel@...> wrote: > > The method I use to tranfer my CAE between the two tanks, is holding him in a 4" diameter box, filled with about 150ml from the 20G tank's water,and then I add 30-40 ml every 10-15 minutes from the 6G all while floating the plastic container in the 6G to mentain the temperature. then I finally put the CAE in the 6G, which contains Goupy fry, two live plants, and a few dozens of MTS snails. The 6G is NOT exposed to sunlight, only daylight coming through a semi-transparent curtain. The algae is only the green kind growing on the glass making an unpleasant sight of the -otherwise- beautiful tiny tank. Scrubbing the algae doesn't remove them from all corners and places. > The problem now, is that I don't have many choices in finding snails here in Syria, the LFS rarely even sell them. > I was thinking, do you think I can buy a new BABY Chinese Algae Eater and keep him in the 6G until he outgrows it, then take him back to the LFS? would that be a good idea in the absence of the suitable snails and Clown Plecos "which I don't recall seeing at all in the LFSs here"? I would also mention that there aren't algae wafers here. > > Noura-Syria > > --- [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] ------------------------------------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. 74/`7.88.><((((:>.74/`7.88.74/`7.8><((((:> 8.74/`7.8. , .74/`7..><((((:> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <:((((><.74/`7.88.74/`7.8<:((((><8.74/`7.8. , .74/`7..<:((((><74/`7.88. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the home page. Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com to receive the digest, which includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com for the No E-Mail option where you will still be able to read messages on the group and post replies. Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com to receive individual e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 44706	From: Gail Armstrong	Date: 11/24/2009
Subject: Thank you for having me and HELP!!

Hi everyone, I have to jump right in because of the situation I am in with my Gold Fish right now. I appreciate any advice you can give me. I have a 5X10,, 3 ft. deep Garden Pond that I have had for years. I have Gold fish and one Koi in it right now. I live in Kansas and the weather has gotten colder., it is in the 30s today and was in the 50s yesterday. I always overwinter my fish in my pond with a "bubbler" going to avoid freezing over. I switched yesterday to the bubbler. Over the past week I have had 12 or 13 of my newest added Gold fish (3-4inch) die. They have been in my pond for about 2 months. They will start staying at the surface, and die within a day or so. My oldest fish have been fine. The fish that have died have no marks or illness visable. Now one of my oldest fish is hoovering at the surface (oh Brother!). I appreciate information and suggestions! Sincerely, Gail/Kansas [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 44707	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 11/24/2009
Subject: Re: The reality of algae/Catherine

Here's the links I have in my Favorites on using HP to spot treat algae. Old thread from TheKrib.com http://www.thekrib.com/Plants/Algae/hydrogen-peroxide.html http://www.malawicichlidhomepage.com/aquainfo/algae_peroxide.html Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of harry perry Sent: Tuesday, November 24, 2009 2:51 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: The reality of algae/Catherine Google Hydrogen Peroxide for the treatment of Black Beard algae. It works I tried it. Harry --- On Tue, 11/24/09, cat.rose <catrosemail-peace@...> wrote: From: cat.rose <catrosemail-peace@...> Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: The reality of algae To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Date: Tuesday, November 24, 2009, 11:10 AM I too have been dealing with the algae situation, but I WISH it was the green stuff! Mine is the uber-ugly black beard algae all over my live plants and also covering the 2 fake plants. I've been trying to (1) pinch off sections, (2) unscrew one of the 2 lightbulbs so there's less light, (3) keep the lights on for less time. It doesn't seem to be going away. I'm going to buy some cherry shrimp per Lenny's advice. I tried going to the Drs. Foster Smith website but it seems they're not available right now - I signed up to be notified when the shrimp are back in stock. I may try to go PetSmart and see if they have them. Question: How many shrimp should I get for a 10 gal tank? I also found the Turbo CO2 Bio-System on their website for only $29.99: "Turbo CO2 Bio-System features a suction cup mounted adjustable venturi powerhead. Fine bubbles of CO2 are injected directly into the water column for maximum CO2 supplementation. The result is vibrant plant growth and vitality. Adjustable powerhead allows controlled CO2 diffusion into aquarium. Simply switch off the powerhead or connect to timer to prevent unwanted nighttime pH drop." I'm thinking maybe I should add this to my tank also? In addition to the above ideas, I'm also debating taking out ALL the plants and tossing them and just starting over. But, maybe I should leave a couple algae covered plants so that the shrimp will have something to eat. ADVICE? I too am not in love with algae, but do realize that it's a normal part of a healthy environment. I just HATE this black beard algae - it's ugly!!! :( ~Catherine~ --- In AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com, Lainey Alexander <lainealex@. ..> wrote: > > Hi Everyone - > > Is it possible to have a fully planted tank with co2, fertilizer, > proper lighting. proper stocking and good care AND not have algae? > > Is it ultimately necessary to use some kind of treatment for algae > such as Flourish Excel or else to live with algae? > > Can algae eaters really control algae in the above tank? > > Why do "amano" style tanks that I see not seem to have algae? Are > they using algaecides? > > :))) > > > Lainey > http://www.grasslan dsgouldians. com

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 44708	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 11/24/2009
Subject: Re: The reality of algae

Generally, that article looks OK except for the very bottom picture IS NOT a picture of BGA (Blue Green Algae) with the scientific name, Cyanobacteria, since it's not really an algae. That picture is of an algae that appears to be a filamentous algae type. There are several types of algae that fall into the "filamentous" common name category. That said, I don't think you had/have BGA if yours looked like the filamentous algae in that picture.... read on though. If anyone out here is a member of that forum, please add a post to that article thread letting them know. I'm not joining a forum just to fix an error. I already belong to enough forums. :-P Of course, I'm not sure if that author is the original author or not. I did a test Google of one unique sentence in the article and I see the same exact sentence in an article published on this blog. http://www.aquariumalgae.blogspot.com/ The blog article (actually a series of articles) on this blog is MUCH LONGER and has a LOT more photos and is signed by "Dusko Bojic" dating back to March 2006. Actually, upon looking at your link a little closer, the forum poster was named Niko but at the bottom of "his" post, it says "Text and Photos by Dusko Bojic". I guess he has permission to use the blog but possibly he doesn't. This should probably have been at the beginning of the "article" with a link to the original content on the blog. I would look at the blog for better information and the picture for BGA is also correct on the blog... almost all the way at the bottom of the LONG blog... but then all the way at the bottom is that same picture of a filamentous algae, just like in the forum post. Unfortunately, the blogger does not have the Comments section turned on, or any other way to contact him/her, so I could not leave a comment about this photo mistake. The picture, right below the BGA caption, showing a leaf with a deep bluish-green growth on it is a more accurate look at BGA. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Amber Berglund Sent: Tuesday, November 24, 2009 5:09 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: The reality of algae I did a google search and found a site with a picture that looks just like my algae (black beard) growing in all of my tanks. http://www.fish-keeper.net/Forum/index.php?/topic/7318-aquarium-algae/ The site says to increase co2 to 30ppm and that'll help combat the black beard algae (also plant lots of fast growing plants). Guess I will move some of my plant clippings from my 55 gallon down to the 125 gallon and see how fast they grow, the tank is pretty well planted though. Also looking over those pictures and descriptions, it looks like I recently had some cyanobacteria growing in my 125 gallon tank (which I quickly removed as much as I could), I will have to keep an eye out and see if/when it comes back. I wonder if the other stuff I described was also cyanobacteria, or if it was some form of hair algae (greenish black, long and very curly looking, feels weird when you touch it, almost like very thick hair). Amber Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > > Same to you Amber... that is, same question to you. LOL What website > helped > you decide that you have "black beard algae". It's good to post a link > to a > page with a picture so two people will be more certain they are talking > about the same thing... this is true for many common names on our fish as > well... but especially when dealing with algae's. > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right > side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) > > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On > Behalf Of Amber Berglund > Sent: Tuesday, November 24, 2009 11:47 AM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: The reality of algae > > I too have been battling black beard algae in my largest tank (125 > gallons). > It covers everything it can, powerhead, heaters, filter intakes, plants, > decorations, gravel, etc. I have noticed that in my other tanks I have > hardly any black beard algae, so I'm wondering what is different in my 55 > gallon tanks compared to the 125 gallon. I don't use fertilizers or co2 in > any of my tanks either. I have cherry shrimp in one of my 55 gallon tanks, > but I don't think they eat black beard algae, anyone out there know if > they > do/don't eat black beard algae? > I've been getting something new growing in my tanks the last few > months, and > it doesn't look like algae. It looks like curly black hair growing off of > stuff, does anyone know what this is called or if I should worry about it? > I've been pulling it off the decorations and plants when I notice it. > > Amber > > cat.rose wrote: > > > > I too have been dealing with the algae situation, but I WISH it was > > the green stuff! Mine is the uber-ugly black beard algae all over my > > live plants and also covering the 2 fake plants. > > > > I've been trying to (1) pinch off sections, (2) unscrew one of the 2 > > lightbulbs so there's less light, (3) keep the lights on for less > > time. It doesn't seem to be going away. > > > > I'm going to buy some cherry shrimp per Lenny's advice. I tried going > > to the Drs. Foster Smith website but it seems they're not available > > right now - I signed up to be notified when the shrimp are back in > > stock. I may try to go PetSmart and see if they have them. Question: > > How many shrimp should I get for a 10 gal tank? > > > > I also found the Turbo CO2 Bio-System on their website for only $29.99: > > > > "Turbo CO2 Bio-System features a suction cup mounted adjustable > > venturi powerhead. Fine bubbles of CO2 are injected directly into the > > water column for maximum CO2 supplementation. The result is vibrant > > plant growth and vitality. Adjustable powerhead allows controlled CO2 > > diffusion into aquarium. Simply switch off the powerhead or connect to > > timer to prevent unwanted nighttime pH drop." > > > > I'm thinking maybe I should add this to my tank also? > > > > In addition to the above ideas, I'm also debating taking out ALL the > > plants and tossing them and just starting over. But, maybe I should > > leave a couple algae covered plants so that the shrimp will have > > something to eat. ADVICE? > > > > I too am not in love with algae, but do realize that it's a normal > > part of a healthy environment. I just HATE this black beard algae - > > it's ugly!!! :( > > > > ~Catherine~ > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>, Lainey Alexander > > <lainealex@...> wrote: > > > > > > Hi Everyone - > > > > > > Is it possible to have a fully planted tank with co2, fertilizer, > > > proper lighting. proper stocking and good care AND not have algae? > > > > > > Is it ultimately necessary to use some kind of treatment for algae > > > such as Flourish Excel or else to live with algae? > > > > > > Can algae eaters really control algae in the above tank? > > > > > > Why do "amano" style tanks that I see not seem to have algae? Are > > > they using algaecides? > > > > > > :))) > > > > > > > > > Lainey > > > http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com > <http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com> > > > <http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com > <http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com>> > > > > > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > > > > > > ------------------------------------ > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. > ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> > PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to > the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the > SUBJECT > LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- > <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. > > If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of unsubscribing, you > can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the > home page. > > Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:aquaticlife-digest%40yahoogroups.com> to receive the digest, which > includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email > > Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:aquaticlife-nomail%40yahoogroups.com> for the No E-Mail option > where > you will still be able to read messages on the group and post replies. > > Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:aquaticlife-normal%40yahoogroups.com> to receive individual > e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links > > ------------------------------------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the home page. Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com to receive the digest, which includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com for the No E-Mail option where you will still be able to read messages on the group and post replies. Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com to receive individual e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 44709	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 11/24/2009
Subject: Re: The reality of algae/Catherine and Amber

That doesn't sound right. Unless you poured the Flourish Excel directly onto the fish... which I presume you didn't do. Flourish Excel only provides a carbon source in the water column and if properly dosed, it should not cause a problem. Some folks even overdose it, I think up to 8X the recommended amount for combating algae and I haven't heard of fish kills as a result of this overdose. I would contact Seachem to see what they say. http://www.seachem.com/Contact/Contact.html I've always heard back from them within a day. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Lainey Alexander Sent: Tuesday, November 24, 2009 6:31 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: The reality of algae/Catherine and Amber I just killed my favorite fish with the label dose of Flourish Excel:( Bumblebee goby. Lainey http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com On Nov 24, 2009, at 5:55 PM, Amber Berglund wrote: > I can't use it with snails in my tank, so I'm out (as well as cherry > shrimp). I have to figure out a different way. I'm considering using > flourish excel in the 125 gallon tank, but that'd be a lot of flourish > (good thing I have a bunch on hand that I bought earlier this year for > my planted tanks and I have barely touched the stuff so far). > > Amber > > bill 1433 wrote: >> >> Harry is right about the HP. I found my best results were obtained >> with a syringe and getting as close as you possibly can to the actual >> algae, i.e. direct contact, keeping your fish away from the immediate >> area while dosing. The HP dissipates quickly. >> >> He may or may not be referring to this web-site, again gained through >> Goggle: >> >> http://www.malawicichlidhomepage.com/aquainfo/algae_peroxide.html >> <http://www.malawicichlidhomepage.com/aquainfo/algae_peroxide.html> >> >> This site also shows some examples of "the beast" as well as the type >> of syringe used for the dosing. >> >> Bill >> >> --- On Tue, 11/24/09, harry perry <harryfisherman@... >> <mailto:harryfisherman%40yahoo.com>> wrote: >> >> From: harry perry <harryfisherman@... >> <mailto:harryfisherman%40yahoo.com>> >> Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: The reality of algae/Catherine >> To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife% >> 40yahoogroups.com> >> Date: Tuesday, November 24, 2009, 3:55 PM >> >> Try adding more plants like Horn Wort. Put your lights on a timer for >> 12 fours and feed your plants. Cutting back the light might make it >> worse. Htdrogen Peroide works. You use it with an eye dropper. Just >> Google it. >> >> Harry >> >> --- On Tue, 11/24/09, cat.rose <catrosemail-peace@... >> <mailto:catrosemail-peace%40yahoo.com>> wrote: >> >> From: cat.rose <catrosemail-peace@... >> <mailto:catrosemail-peace%40yahoo.com>> >> Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: The reality of algae >> To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife% >> 40yahoogroups.com> >> Date: Tuesday, November 24, 2009, 11:10 AM >> >>  >> >> >> >> >> >> >> I too have been dealing with the algae situation, but I WISH it was >> the green stuff! Mine is the uber-ugly black beard algae all over my >> live plants and also covering the 2 fake plants. >> >> I've been trying to (1) pinch off sections, (2) unscrew one of the 2 >> lightbulbs so there's less light, (3) keep the lights on for less >> time. It doesn't seem to be going away. >> >> I'm going to buy some cherry shrimp per Lenny's advice. I tried going >> to the Drs. Foster Smith website but it seems they're not available >> right now - I signed up to be notified when the shrimp are back in >> stock. I may try to go PetSmart and see if they have them. Question: >> How many shrimp should I get for a 10 gal tank? >> >> I also found the Turbo CO2 Bio-System on their website for only >> $29.99: >> >> "Turbo CO2 Bio-System features a suction cup mounted adjustable >> venturi powerhead. Fine bubbles of CO2 are injected directly into the >> water column for maximum CO2 supplementation. The result is vibrant >> plant growth and vitality. Adjustable powerhead allows controlled CO2 >> diffusion into aquarium. Simply switch off the powerhead or connect >> to timer to prevent unwanted nighttime pH drop." >> >> I'm thinking maybe I should add this to my tank also? >> >> In addition to the above ideas, I'm also debating taking out ALL the >> plants and tossing them and just starting over. But, maybe I should >> leave a couple algae covered plants so that the shrimp will have >> something to eat. ADVICE? >> >> I too am not in love with algae, but do realize that it's a normal >> part of a healthy environment. I just HATE this black beard algae - >> it's ugly!!! :( >> >> ~Catherine~ >> >> --- In AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com, Lainey Alexander <lainealex@. >> ..> wrote: >> >>> >> >>> Hi Everyone - >> >>> >> >>> Is it possible to have a fully planted tank with co2, fertilizer, >> >>> proper lighting. proper stocking and good care AND not have algae? >> >>> >> >>> Is it ultimately necessary to use some kind of treatment for algae >> >>> such as Flourish Excel or else to live with algae? >> >>> >> >>> Can algae eaters really control algae in the above tank? >> >>> >> >>> Why do "amano" style tanks that I see not seem to have algae? Are >> >>> they using algaecides? >> >>> >> >>> :))) >> >>> >> >>> >> >>> Lainey >> >>> http://www.grasslan dsgouldians. com >> >>> >> >>> >> >>> >> >>> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] >> >>> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] >> >> ------------------------------------ >> >> Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank >> You. >> ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..>< >> ((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT >> important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original >> message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old >> subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , >> .·´¯`·..<º((((><· ´¯`·.¸¸. >> We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. >> >> If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of >> unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by clicking on >> "Edit My Membership" on the home page. >> >> Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com >> <mailto:aquaticlife-digest%40yahoogroups.com> to receive the digest, >> which includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email >> >> Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com >> <mailto:aquaticlife-nomail%40yahoogroups.com> for the No E-Mail >> option where you will still be able to read messages on the group and >> post replies. >> >> Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com >> <mailto:aquaticlife-normal%40yahoogroups.com> to receive individual >> e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links >> >> > > > ------------------------------------ > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank > You. > ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..>< > ((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT > important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message > MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- > <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><· > ´¯`·.¸¸. > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. > > If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of unsubscribing, > you can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My > Membership" on the home page. > > Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com to receive the digest, > which includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email > > Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com for the No E-Mail option > where you will still be able to read messages on the group and post > replies. > > Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com to receive individual e- > mails.Yahoo! Groups Links > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] ------------------------------------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the home page. Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com to receive the digest, which includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com for the No E-Mail option where you will still be able to read messages on the group and post replies. Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com to receive individual e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 44710	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 11/24/2009
Subject: Home made CO2 system

So I'm getting the hubby to make me a few home made CO2 systems for my fish tanks to try out. It's based on the design on this site: https://www.netpets.org/fish/reference/freshref/co2.html My question is this; how do I figure out how many I will need to use on my fish tanks? 55 gallon and 125 gallon tanks. The system says it will generate about 1 bubble per second after fermentation begins (without an airstone), will it generate more bubbles with an air stone (no air pump)? How many bubbles per second are needed to maintain about 15 ppm? I'm so confused, LOL. Amber

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 44711	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 11/24/2009
Subject: Re: The reality of algae/Catherine and Amber

TheKrib.com article/thread http://www.thekrib.com/Plants/Algae/hydrogen-peroxide.html about HP (and inverts) says the same thing. Here's a snip from about 3/4th's down the page. In summary: - - Hydrogen peroxide is an effective treatment for cyanobacteria with little affect on plants. - - As for the amount used, 4 oz per 35 gallon (minus substrate) spot treatment is already effective. That's roughly 2 oz per 15 gallon. - - There doesn't seem to be an effective and safe dosage level for snails and shrimps, and possibly for fish. (END SNIP - read entire thread for more details) Please note that many of these posts on TheKrib were about BGA/Cyanobacteria, not real algae but there is other info out there where using HP directly on algae at the dose of 1 oz. per 10G of water also has positive effects against the algae without noticeable effects on fish.... except for inverts where it does have an adverse effect. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Steve Szabo Sent: Tuesday, November 24, 2009 7:41 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: The reality of algae/Catherine and Amber Amber, Hydrogen peroxide quickly becomes water when placed in water. In what way is it bad for your shrimp and snails? \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Amber Berglund Sent: Tuesday, November 24, 2009 5:56 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: The reality of algae/Catherine and Amber I can't use it with snails in my tank, so I'm out (as well as cherry shrimp). I have to figure out a different way. I'm considering using flourish excel in the 125 gallon tank, but that'd be a lot of flourish (good thing I have a bunch on hand that I bought earlier this year for my planted tanks and I have barely touched the stuff so far). Amber bill 1433 wrote: > > Harry is right about the HP. I found my best results were obtained > with a syringe and getting as close as you possibly can to the actual > algae, i.e. direct contact, keeping your fish away from the immediate > area while dosing. The HP dissipates quickly. > > He may or may not be referring to this web-site, again gained through > Goggle: > > http://www.malawicichlidhomepage.com/aquainfo/algae_peroxide.html > <http://www.malawicichlidhomepage.com/aquainfo/algae_peroxide.html> > > This site also shows some examples of "the beast" as well as the type > of syringe used for the dosing. > > Bill > > --- On Tue, 11/24/09, harry perry <harryfisherman@... > <mailto:harryfisherman%40yahoo.com>> wrote: > > From: harry perry <harryfisherman@... > <mailto:harryfisherman%40yahoo.com>> > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: The reality of algae/Catherine > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Date: Tuesday, November 24, 2009, 3:55 PM > > Try adding more plants like Horn Wort. Put your lights on a timer for > 12 fours and feed your plants. Cutting back the light might make it > worse. Htdrogen Peroide works. You use it with an eye dropper. Just > Google it. > > Harry > > --- On Tue, 11/24/09, cat.rose <catrosemail-peace@... > <mailto:catrosemail-peace%40yahoo.com>> wrote: > > From: cat.rose <catrosemail-peace@... > <mailto:catrosemail-peace%40yahoo.com>> > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: The reality of algae > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Date: Tuesday, November 24, 2009, 11:10 AM > > Â > > > > > > > I too have been dealing with the algae situation, but I WISH it was > the green stuff! Mine is the uber-ugly black beard algae all over my > live plants and also covering the 2 fake plants. > > I've been trying to (1) pinch off sections, (2) unscrew one of the 2 > lightbulbs so there's less light, (3) keep the lights on for less > time. It doesn't seem to be going away. > > I'm going to buy some cherry shrimp per Lenny's advice. I tried going > to the Drs. Foster Smith website but it seems they're not available > right now - I signed up to be notified when the shrimp are back in > stock. I may try to go PetSmart and see if they have them. Question: > How many shrimp should I get for a 10 gal tank? > > I also found the Turbo CO2 Bio-System on their website for only $29.99: > > "Turbo CO2 Bio-System features a suction cup mounted adjustable > venturi powerhead. Fine bubbles of CO2 are injected directly into the > water column for maximum CO2 supplementation. The result is vibrant > plant growth and vitality. Adjustable powerhead allows controlled CO2 > diffusion into aquarium. Simply switch off the powerhead or connect to > timer to prevent unwanted nighttime pH drop." > > I'm thinking maybe I should add this to my tank also? > > In addition to the above ideas, I'm also debating taking out ALL the > plants and tossing them and just starting over. But, maybe I should > leave a couple algae covered plants so that the shrimp will have > something to eat. ADVICE? > > I too am not in love with algae, but do realize that it's a normal > part of a healthy environment. I just HATE this black beard algae - > it's ugly!!! :( > > ~Catherine~ > > --- In AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com, Lainey Alexander <lainealex@. > ..> wrote: > > > > > > Hi Everyone - > > > > > > Is it possible to have a fully planted tank with co2, fertilizer, > > > proper lighting. proper stocking and good care AND not have algae? > > > > > > Is it ultimately necessary to use some kind of treatment for algae > > > such as Flourish Excel or else to live with algae? > > > > > > Can algae eaters really control algae in the above tank? > > > > > > Why do "amano" style tanks that I see not seem to have algae? Are > > > they using algaecides? > > > > > > :))) > > > > > > > > > Lainey > > > http://www.grasslan dsgouldians. com

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 44712	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 11/24/2009
Subject: Re: Job needed for a young algae eater

Not if they were Zimbabwe dollars. ;-) Near the end of 2008, three chicken eggs cost 100 billion dollars in Zimbabwe. It has gotten much worse. Here's a quick view of their recent transfer rate between the Zimbabwe dollar and the U.S. dollar... Month ZWR per USD Sept 2008 1,000 Oct 2008 90,000 Nov 2008 1,200,000 Mid Dec 2008 60,000,000 End Dec 2008 2,000,000,000 Mid Jan 2009 1,000,000,000,000 2 Feb 2009 300,000,000,000,000 Now that's inflation!!!! Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Amber Berglund Sent: Tuesday, November 24, 2009 8:49 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: Job needed for a young algae eater I know this, but at the same time 30 dollars for one tiny shrimp is a bit over priced IMO ;) Amber Deenerz@... wrote: > > > Amber, > > Noura lives in Syria. > She may or may not have more trouble than you in getting fish, > inverts, and supplies. > > -Mike > > -----Original Message----- > From: Amber Berglund <arberglund@... > <mailto:arberglund%40gmail.com>> > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Sent: Tue, Nov 24, 2009 2:57 pm > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: Job needed for a young algae eater > > Wow, that's spendy for tiny little shrimp! > I think I got about 10 for less than 10 dollars. Your LFS is either > making a killing selling fish or barely staying in business, LOL. > > Amber > > N Taweel wrote: > > > > Unfortunately, I just asked around about the availability of the > > Cherry Shrimp here, and was told that it costs around 30$ each. And > > it's not even available anytime. > > I'm trying to purchase big snails instead. Or will stick to the > > small CAEs choice otherwise! > > > > Noura > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: N Taweel > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > Sent: Tuesday, November 24, 2009 11:01 PM > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: Job needed for a young algae eater > > > > Does it get out of his tank? Because that will be a problem with my > > son always opening the glass top of the tank to watch the fish or > make > > them "taste" some cucombers occasionally! > > There are 2" between the water surface and the upper edge of the tank. > > And, does the Cherry Shrimp pick on the Fancy Guppies long tails? > From > > what I read it doesn't , but I need some real experience on that. > > > > Noura > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > Sent: Tuesday, November 24, 2009 2:20 AM > > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: Job needed for a young algae eater > > > > Who said Cherry Shrimp won't eat algae off of glass? > > > > My Cherry Shrimp swim all over the tank (just like fish) and keep > > the glass as sparkling clean as anything else in their tank. The > > only algae > they > > seem > > to not like is filamentous algae, which I had a little bout with > > when > the > > guppy grass started getting too thick on the surface, blocking too > much > > light from the other plants and the filamentous algae started > > growing in the guppy grass. I thinned out the guppy grass while > > pulling out the filamentous algae and since then, I've seen the > > Cherry Shrimp crawling around more in the guppy grass and I think > > they might be eating any remnants of the filamentous algae as well. > > Maybe they just didn't like it when > it > > got too thick in some areas.... or maybe they just don't eat that > much > > of it > > or preferred other algae's and saved the filamentous algae for last. > > > > I'll almost guarantee you that if the only place there is algae is > > on > the > > glass, they WILL crawl/swim up the glass picking at it till it's all > gone. > > They might go after the stuff on the gravel, decorations, plants, > etc., > > first but after that is gone, they'll get to the algae on the glass > as > > well. > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>> > > (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the > right > > side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, > Month) > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > > > ------------------------------------ > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank > You. > ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , > .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT > that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the > original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: > old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. > > If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of unsubscribing, > you can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My Membership" > on the home page. > > Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:aquaticlife-digest%40yahoogroups.com> to receive the digest, > which includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email > > Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:aquaticlife-nomail%40yahoogroups.com> for the No E-Mail option > where you will still be able to read messages on the group and post > replies. > > Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:aquaticlife-normal%40yahoogroups.com> to receive individual > e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links > > ------------------------------------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. `..><((((>.`..`.><((((> .`.. , .`..><((((> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <((((><.`..`.<((((><.`.. , .`..<((((><`.. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the home page. Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com to receive the digest, which includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com for the No E-Mail option where you will still be able to read messages on the group and post replies. Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com to receive individual e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 44713	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 11/24/2009
Subject: Re: Job needed for a young algae eater

Jeez, I'd be so rich in Zimbabwe ;) LOL. Amber Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > > Not if they were Zimbabwe dollars. ;-) > > Near the end of 2008, three chicken eggs cost 100 billion dollars in > Zimbabwe. It has gotten much worse. Here's a quick view of their recent > transfer rate between the Zimbabwe dollar and the U.S. dollar... > > Month ZWR per USD > Sept 2008 1,000 > Oct 2008 90,000 > Nov 2008 1,200,000 > Mid Dec 2008 60,000,000 > End Dec 2008 2,000,000,000 > Mid Jan 2009 1,000,000,000,000 > 2 Feb 2009 300,000,000,000,000 > > Now that's inflation!!!! > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right > side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On > Behalf Of Amber Berglund > Sent: Tuesday, November 24, 2009 8:49 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: Job needed for a young algae eater > > I know this, but at the same time 30 dollars for one tiny shrimp is a bit > over priced IMO ;) > > Amber > > Deenerz@... <mailto:Deenerz%40aol.com> wrote: > > > > > > Amber, > > > > Noura lives in Syria. > > She may or may not have more trouble than you in getting fish, > > inverts, and supplies. > > > > -Mike > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: Amber Berglund <arberglund@... > <mailto:arberglund%40gmail.com> > > <mailto:arberglund%40gmail.com>> > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > Sent: Tue, Nov 24, 2009 2:57 pm > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: Job needed for a young algae eater > > > > Wow, that's spendy for tiny little shrimp! > > I think I got about 10 for less than 10 dollars. Your LFS is either > > making a killing selling fish or barely staying in business, LOL. > > > > Amber > > > > N Taweel wrote: > > > > > > Unfortunately, I just asked around about the availability of the > > > Cherry Shrimp here, and was told that it costs around 30$ each. And > > > it's not even available anytime. > > > I'm trying to purchase big snails instead. Or will stick to the > > > small CAEs choice otherwise! > > > > > > Noura > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > From: N Taweel > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > Sent: Tuesday, November 24, 2009 11:01 PM > > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: Job needed for a young algae eater > > > > > > Does it get out of his tank? Because that will be a problem with my > > > son always opening the glass top of the tank to watch the fish or > > make > > > them "taste" some cucombers occasionally! > > > There are 2" between the water surface and the upper edge of the tank. > > > And, does the Cherry Shrimp pick on the Fancy Guppies long tails? > > From > > > what I read it doesn't , but I need some real experience on that. > > > > > > Noura > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > Sent: Tuesday, November 24, 2009 2:20 AM > > > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: Job needed for a young algae eater > > > > > > Who said Cherry Shrimp won't eat algae off of glass? > > > > > > My Cherry Shrimp swim all over the tank (just like fish) and keep > > > the glass as sparkling clean as anything else in their tank. The > > > only algae > > they > > > seem > > > to not like is filamentous algae, which I had a little bout with > > > when > > the > > > guppy grass started getting too thick on the surface, blocking too > > much > > > light from the other plants and the filamentous algae started > > > growing in the guppy grass. I thinned out the guppy grass while > > > pulling out the filamentous algae and since then, I've seen the > > > Cherry Shrimp crawling around more in the guppy grass and I think > > > they might be eating any remnants of the filamentous algae as well. > > > Maybe they just didn't like it when > > it > > > got too thick in some areas.... or maybe they just don't eat that > > much > > > of it > > > or preferred other algae's and saved the filamentous algae for last. > > > > > > I'll almost guarantee you that if the only place there is algae is > > > on > > the > > > glass, they WILL crawl/swim up the glass picking at it till it's all > > gone. > > > They might go after the stuff on the gravel, decorations, plants, > > etc., > > > first but after that is gone, they'll get to the algae on the glass > > as > > > well. > > > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>> > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>>> > > > (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the > > right > > > side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, > > Month) > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > > > > > > > ------------------------------------ > > > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank > > You. > > ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , > > .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT > > that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the > > original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: > > old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , > .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. > > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. > > > > If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of unsubscribing, > > you can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My Membership" > > on the home page. > > > > Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:aquaticlife-digest%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:aquaticlife-digest%40yahoogroups.com> to receive the digest, > > which includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email > > > > Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:aquaticlife-nomail%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:aquaticlife-nomail%40yahoogroups.com> for the No E-Mail option > > where you will still be able to read messages on the group and post > > replies. > > > > Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:aquaticlife-normal%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:aquaticlife-normal%40yahoogroups.com> to receive individual > > e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > ------------------------------------ > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. > `..><((((>.`..`.><((((> .`.. , .`..><((((> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a > post, > DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC > of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was > re: old subject)" <- <((((><.`..`.<((((><.`.. , .`..<((((><`.. > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. > > If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of unsubscribing, you > can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the > home page. > > Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:aquaticlife-digest%40yahoogroups.com> to receive the digest, which > includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email > > Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:aquaticlife-nomail%40yahoogroups.com> for the No E-Mail option > where > you will still be able to read messages on the group and post replies. > > Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:aquaticlife-normal%40yahoogroups.com> to receive individual > e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 44714	From: bruce cohen	Date: 11/24/2009
Subject: Re: seahorses need a new home in los angeles

i would like them please emale ne at piercedarrow_107@... --- On Tue, 11/24/09, TerenceLee1000 <terencelee1000@...> wrote: From: TerenceLee1000 <terencelee1000@...> Subject: [AquaticLife] seahorses need a new home in los angeles To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Date: Tuesday, November 24, 2009, 12:57 PM   Are there any seahorse keepers in southern california? I've got 2 male reidi that need a new home. I got them from the seahorsesource. They are captive bred. Both are yellow. I'm selling for $50ea. Prefer to sell to an experienced aquarist rather than the LFS. E-mail me if you have questions. I also have photos. Terence [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 44715	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 11/24/2009
Subject: Re: Job needed for a young algae eater

Not if we keep going on the same course as they did... which we currently are, unfortunately! :-( I'll forward you an email, off-list, that shows just how bad things are and are getting in Zimbabwe with their de-valued dollar, government deficit spending and over-bearing national debt, which led to their hyper inflation over the past several years. Hmmmmm.. sounds familiar nowadays! Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Amber Berglund Sent: Tuesday, November 24, 2009 11:19 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: Job needed for a young algae eater Jeez, I'd be so rich in Zimbabwe ;) LOL. Amber Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > > Not if they were Zimbabwe dollars. ;-) > > Near the end of 2008, three chicken eggs cost 100 billion dollars in > Zimbabwe. It has gotten much worse. Here's a quick view of their > recent transfer rate between the Zimbabwe dollar and the U.S. dollar... > > Month ZWR per USD > Sept 2008 1,000 > Oct 2008 90,000 > Nov 2008 1,200,000 > Mid Dec 2008 60,000,000 > End Dec 2008 2,000,000,000 > Mid Jan 2009 1,000,000,000,000 > 2 Feb 2009 300,000,000,000,000 > > Now that's inflation!!!! > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> (Links to any articles referenced in > above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels > and also under Archives by Year, Month) > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On Behalf Of Amber Berglund > Sent: Tuesday, November 24, 2009 8:49 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: Job needed for a young algae eater > > I know this, but at the same time 30 dollars for one tiny shrimp is a > bit over priced IMO ;) > > Amber > > Deenerz@... <mailto:Deenerz%40aol.com> wrote: > > > > > > Amber, > > > > Noura lives in Syria. > > She may or may not have more trouble than you in getting fish, > > inverts, and supplies. > > > > -Mike > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: Amber Berglund <arberglund@... > <mailto:arberglund%40gmail.com> > > <mailto:arberglund%40gmail.com>> > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > Sent: Tue, Nov 24, 2009 2:57 pm > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: Job needed for a young algae eater > > > > Wow, that's spendy for tiny little shrimp! > > I think I got about 10 for less than 10 dollars. Your LFS is either > > making a killing selling fish or barely staying in business, LOL. > > > > Amber > > > > N Taweel wrote: > > > > > > Unfortunately, I just asked around about the availability of the > > > Cherry Shrimp here, and was told that it costs around 30$ each. > > > And it's not even available anytime. > > > I'm trying to purchase big snails instead. Or will stick to the > > > small CAEs choice otherwise! > > > > > > Noura > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > From: N Taweel > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > Sent: Tuesday, November 24, 2009 11:01 PM > > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: Job needed for a young algae eater > > > > > > Does it get out of his tank? Because that will be a problem with > > > my son always opening the glass top of the tank to watch the fish > > > or > > make > > > them "taste" some cucombers occasionally! > > > There are 2" between the water surface and the upper edge of the tank. > > > And, does the Cherry Shrimp pick on the Fancy Guppies long tails? > > From > > > what I read it doesn't , but I need some real experience on that. > > > > > > Noura > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > Sent: Tuesday, November 24, 2009 2:20 AM > > > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: Job needed for a young algae eater > > > > > > Who said Cherry Shrimp won't eat algae off of glass? > > > > > > My Cherry Shrimp swim all over the tank (just like fish) and keep > > > the glass as sparkling clean as anything else in their tank. The > > > only algae > > they > > > seem > > > to not like is filamentous algae, which I had a little bout with > > > when > > the > > > guppy grass started getting too thick on the surface, blocking too > > much > > > light from the other plants and the filamentous algae started > > > growing in the guppy grass. I thinned out the guppy grass while > > > pulling out the filamentous algae and since then, I've seen the > > > Cherry Shrimp crawling around more in the guppy grass and I think > > > they might be eating any remnants of the filamentous algae as well. > > > Maybe they just didn't like it when > > it > > > got too thick in some areas.... or maybe they just don't eat that > > much > > > of it > > > or preferred other algae's and saved the filamentous algae for last. > > > > > > I'll almost guarantee you that if the only place there is algae is > > > on > > the > > > glass, they WILL crawl/swim up the glass picking at it till it's > > > all > > gone. > > > They might go after the stuff on the gravel, decorations, plants, > > etc., > > > first but after that is gone, they'll get to the algae on the > > > glass > > as > > > well. > > > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>> > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>>> > > > (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the > > right > > > side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, > > Month)

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 44716	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 11/24/2009
Subject: Re: Thank you for having me and HELP!!

Any water test parameters? Ammonia, nitrite, nitrate, pH, temperature (every 8 hours), GH and KH are all helpful. How many fish did you have in the pond prior to adding the recent goldfish? Since you mentioned 12-13 of the new fish have died, how many did you add... or was that all of them? A 5' x 10' x 3' deep (if rectangular) pond would have around 1,100 gallons of water volume. If oval, kidney or other non-rectangular shape, it would have even less water volume. A Koi should have 300-500G of water volume for itself and a 10' long pond is not really long enough for Koi anyhow since they grow to over 3' long. I think the smallest pond that a Koi should be in would be around 18' long, 6' wide and 4' deep... and that's a bare minimum for a southern climate like down here in the N'Awlins area. What I'm getting at by all of this is that you dramatically increased your bioload on your pond right before starting the over-wintering process and that is likely what is causing your issues. I'm presuming you know about preparing a pond for the over-wintering process... meaning cleaning the pond, cleaning the filters (prior to turning them off for the winter), stop feeding the fish once the water temps get down into the low 50's on a consistent basis, etc. I have LOTS of links to over-wintering articles on my blog about ponds. Since I'm down here in N'Awlins, I haven't had to worry too much about over-wintering, other than keeping the pond clean of leaves, cutting back on the feeding and doing PWC's just like most of the rest of the year. You're kind of stuck in a quandary right now but if you want your bigger fish to have a better chance to survive this winter, you will probably need to reduce the bioload back to what it was before the big addition of more fish two months ago. Also remember that what works last year will not work this year since the fish are much larger and more of a burden to the water quality this year. Goldfish and Koi grow their body mass by eight times for each time they double their length so a 1" goldfish, when it reaches 8" is equal in body mass to over 500 1" goldfish. Since goldfish should reach full size in 1-3 years, they should be stocked based on their expected adult size, not the size when purchased. This is true for ALL fish. A general guideline would be 75G - 100G per goldfish and 300G - 500G per Koi with the lower water volume numbers meaning more frequent filter cleaning, pond cleaning and PWC's. In your case, with a possibly 1,100G pond and one Koi, you should allow 500G for the Koi since it's already an undersized home situation. This means only 600G left for the goldfish so only around six of them. Since you had 12-13 die and presuming you had even more, you are severely overstocked and will be lucky to have any of your fish survive the over-winter process if you don't DRASTICALLY thin out the bioload immediately. For future reference, the worse time to add new fish to a pond is right before over-wintering. The second worse time is right after spring starts. Once a pond has come out of the over-winter process and has had several weeks of spring in order to get back to normal, then, if the pond can handle an additional bioload, it would be OK to add fish then... and any time during the summer until it starts to cool off again, then no additions. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Gail Armstrong Sent: Tuesday, November 24, 2009 4:50 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Thank you for having me and HELP!! Hi everyone, I have to jump right in because of the situation I am in with my Gold Fish right now. I appreciate any advice you can give me. I have a 5X10,, 3 ft. deep Garden Pond that I have had for years. I have Gold fish and one Koi in it right now. I live in Kansas and the weather has gotten colder., it is in the 30s today and was in the 50s yesterday. I always overwinter my fish in my pond with a "bubbler" going to avoid freezing over. I switched yesterday to the bubbler. Over the past week I have had 12 or 13 of my newest added Gold fish (3-4inch) die. They have been in my pond for about 2 months. They will start staying at the surface, and die within a day or so. My oldest fish have been fine. The fish that have died have no marks or illness visable. Now one of my oldest fish is hoovering at the surface (oh Brother!). I appreciate information and suggestions! Sincerely, Gail/Kansas

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 44717	From: sevenspringss@wmconnect.com	Date: 11/24/2009
Subject: Re: The reality of algae/Catherine and Amber

When using Hydrogen Peroxide for algae problems, even via syringe, do not exceed the recommended dose that would normally be used for total-tank treatment with it -- which is 2 Tablespoons (or 1 ounce) per 10 gallons at any one time. Be careful not to get any concentration of it near any fish, as Peroxide is an oxygenator of organic matter and will burn fishes' gills if drawn past them. This same process is what kills the algae (as well as any bacteria in our cuts and abrasions when we get injured). Ray [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 44718	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 11/24/2009
Subject: Re: Home made CO2 system

There weren't no pictures. Here's the one Chuck has on his Planted Tank pages but it only shows the CO2 Reactor, not the Generator. http://www.csd.net/~cgadd/aqua/diy_reactor.htm Another link I had in my favorites disappeared from the net but using the Internet Wayback Machine at http://www.Archive.org, here is the archived page... which has even prettier pictures... including a Reactor similar to the one on Chuck's page but Chuck's is more advanced than this one. http://web.archive.org/web/20080727031555/http://www.qsl.net/w2wdx/aquaria/d iyco2.html If the link breaks, go to http://www.archive.org and in the top middle of the page, you'll see the Internet Wayback Machine section. Just copy/paste this link into the search field www.qsl.net/w2wdx/aquaria/diyco2.html (<actual link no longer works) Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Amber Berglund Sent: Tuesday, November 24, 2009 10:47 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Home made CO2 system So I'm getting the hubby to make me a few home made CO2 systems for my fish tanks to try out. It's based on the design on this site: https://www.netpets.org/fish/reference/freshref/co2.html My question is this; how do I figure out how many I will need to use on my fish tanks? 55 gallon and 125 gallon tanks. The system says it will generate about 1 bubble per second after fermentation begins (without an airstone), will it generate more bubbles with an air stone (no air pump)? How many bubbles per second are needed to maintain about 15 ppm? I'm so confused, LOL. Amber ------------------------------------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the home page. Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com to receive the digest, which includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com for the No E-Mail option where you will still be able to read messages on the group and post replies. Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com to receive individual e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 44719	From: sevenspringss@wmconnect.com	Date: 11/24/2009
Subject: Re: Job needed for a young algae eater

Noura, Instead of CAE's, you may be better of with SAE's (Siamese Algae Eaters), which have their black stripe extending through the tail fin. Unlike CAE's, they will continue to eat algae as they mature, and they remain peaceful. They don't grow as large either. Ray [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 44720	From: sevenspringss@wmconnect.com	Date: 11/24/2009
Subject: Re: Thank you for having me and HELP!!

Gail, this could be due to a number of different things, from poor stock (as it affected only these newer ones), to some disease that they may have brought in, to improper food (or feeding) for the water temperature you now have. They could have flukes (either skin or gill flukes) which is a fairly common pond fish disease -- especially if you've noticed them "flashing" against the bottom or objects/rocks. As your water temperature is now dropping because of your colder weather, you should stop feeding below 45 o -- 50 o. Up until then, but still at cooler temperatures somewhat above 50 o, you should have been feeding them a wheat germ based (Spring & Fall) food which is more easily digestible at those temperatures -- and then -- their feedings should have been cut back to every other day and finally every 3 days before discontinuing. Summer foods, containing more protein, will only tend to putrify in the fish's digestive system at low water temperatures as they're unable to properly digest it. As this aeration has just been introduced to your pond, there could be a connection there since this die off seems to be coinciding with it, especially if the air source (pump placement) of this aeration is in an area that may be picking up volatile fumes (from paint or lawnmower gas cans), etc. In much colder water (when the surface is iced over), the aeration should only be as strong as needed to create an opening in the ice, and should never be employed near the bottom of the pond but closer to the surface. Placing the aerator at or near the bottom of the pond will push the warmer bottom water up into the water column, and turn the pond water over forcing the colder surface water down to the bottom. Ray [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 44721	From: sevenspringss@wmconnect.com	Date: 11/25/2009
Subject: Re: O/T, was - Re: Job needed for a young algae eater

Yeah, Bill Gates would have to count his money in Googols (or Googolplex) -- not "Google" -- Carl Sagan's word for the largest number nearest infinity, but even you would have trillions. Ray [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 44722	From: N Taweel	Date: 11/25/2009
Subject: Re: Job needed for a young algae eater

I wish that my LFSsssssss have shrimps! They don't.. and we have to purchase it from another city IF and WHEN they have it. Even the big snails need to be purchased that way, also IF and WHEN they're available. The fish keeping hobby is a bit new here, and most people would -ignorantly- just obtain 3 or 4 Goldfish in a 1gallon jar and feed them the worst food : colored wheat flakes, until they eventually and shortly die of poisoning from Nitrits or Chlorine or those 100% water changes, after a short mesirable life. Pfffff!! Noura-Syria ----- Original Message ----- From: "Amber Berglund" <arberglund@...> To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Wednesday, November 25, 2009 12:57 AM Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: Job needed for a young algae eater Wow, that's spendy for tiny little shrimp! I think I got about 10 for less than 10 dollars. Your LFS is either making a killing selling fish or barely staying in business, LOL. Amber N Taweel wrote: > > Unfortunately, I just asked around about the availability of the > Cherry Shrimp here, and was told that it costs around 30$ each. And > it's not even available anytime. > I'm trying to purchase big snails instead. Or will stick to the small > CAEs choice otherwise! > > Noura > ----- Original Message ----- > From: N Taweel > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Sent: Tuesday, November 24, 2009 11:01 PM > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: Job needed for a young algae eater > > Does it get out of his tank? Because that will be a problem with my > son always opening the glass top of the tank to watch the fish or make > them "taste" some cucombers occasionally! > There are 2" between the water surface and the upper edge of the tank. > And, does the Cherry Shrimp pick on the Fancy Guppies long tails? From > what I read it doesn't , but I need some real experience on that. > > Noura > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Sent: Tuesday, November 24, 2009 2:20 AM > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: Job needed for a young algae eater > > Who said Cherry Shrimp won't eat algae off of glass? > > My Cherry Shrimp swim all over the tank (just like fish) and keep the > glass > as sparkling clean as anything else in their tank. The only algae they > seem > to not like is filamentous algae, which I had a little bout with when the > guppy grass started getting too thick on the surface, blocking too much > light from the other plants and the filamentous algae started growing > in the > guppy grass. I thinned out the guppy grass while pulling out the > filamentous algae and since then, I've seen the Cherry Shrimp crawling > around more in the guppy grass and I think they might be eating any > remnants > of the filamentous algae as well. Maybe they just didn't like it when it > got too thick in some areas.... or maybe they just don't eat that much > of it > or preferred other algae's and saved the filamentous algae for last. > > I'll almost guarantee you that if the only place there is algae is on the > glass, they WILL crawl/swim up the glass picking at it till it's all gone. > They might go after the stuff on the gravel, decorations, plants, etc., > first but after that is gone, they'll get to the algae on the glass as > well. > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right > side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > ------------------------------------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the home page. Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com to receive the digest, which includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com for the No E-Mail option where you will still be able to read messages on the group and post replies. Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com to receive individual e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 44723	From: Donna Ransome	Date: 11/25/2009
Subject: Re: Job needed for a young algae eater

We are talking about a 6G tank right? I thought SAE's need to be in groups? _____ From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of sevenspringss@... Sent: Wednesday, November 25, 2009 2:12 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: Job needed for a young algae eater Noura, Instead of CAE's, you may be better of with SAE's (Siamese Algae Eaters), which have their black stripe extending through the tail fin. Unlike CAE's, they will continue to eat algae as they mature, and they remain peaceful. They don't grow as large either. Ray [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 44724	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 11/25/2009
Subject: Re: Home made CO2 system

Amber, The amount of CO2 needed to maintain a certain level in the water column will vary on a number of factors, and will even vary over a 24 hour period. Your plants will use an amount, depending on their state of growth, during the day (lights on), and will release CO2 at night (lights off). Most home built systems are relatively simple to build, and you may find you need more than one to achieve your desired results. Once you have decided that CO2 is for you, you may wish to invest in a tank of CO2 along with the regulators and other items needed for the CO2. Should this be the case, your local welding shop may be a good resource for you in helping you locate the equipment you need at a relatively reasonable price. \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Amber Berglund Sent: Tuesday, November 24, 2009 11:47 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Home made CO2 system So I'm getting the hubby to make me a few home made CO2 systems for my fish tanks to try out. It's based on the design on this site: https://www.netpets.org/fish/reference/freshref/co2.html My question is this; how do I figure out how many I will need to use on my fish tanks? 55 gallon and 125 gallon tanks. The system says it will generate about 1 bubble per second after fermentation begins (without an airstone), will it generate more bubbles with an air stone (no air pump)? How many bubbles per second are needed to maintain about 15 ppm? I'm so confused, LOL. Amber

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 44725	From: sevenspringss@wmconnect.com	Date: 11/25/2009
Subject: Re: Job needed for a young algae eater

I was under the impression that the algae eaters would be (semi) permanently kept in the 20 gallon tank, transferring them to the 6 gallon occasionally for very short periods. I did purposely use the pleural form of SAE's, thinking that Noura could get at least two. I doubt they'd need to be in much larger groups of let's say, 6 or so. They will grow to between 4" and 6", but its much better than the 10" or 11" that CAE's can grow to. Besides, they will remain peaceful even into maturity, while the CAE's turn aggressive and will often decide on a change of diet such as the slime coating of other fish, certainly discontinuing their early preference for algae in favor of something else. I wouldn't think there would be any more of a problem trading SAE's in, if they got too big, than it would be for CAE's. Two, or even three, small SAE's (which wouldn't grow as fast, as it's a smaller fish when mature) may also be do-able -- depending on the amount of other fish -- for the 20 gallon tank, if it's decided that two is not a large enough group. Three 3" SAE's would not even come close to the body mass of one 6" CAE, although admittedly, I don't know at what size Noura trades in her CAE; the comparison is just a reminder of possible bioload. For the short time it would take to clean out the 20 gallon, they should all do fine in the 6 gallon, even though that would constitute gross overcrowding if allowed to remain in the smaller tank for too long. After all, a 3" fish in a pint (or even a quart) of water for the short duration when bringing it home in a bag from the LFS still allows it to survive, often even turning out to be an unplanned somewhat longer length of time. The only cavaet here is again, the same need that the two water columns be fairly matched in parameters to ease the transfer of the fish, but then, we'd have the same original problem if a CAE was decided upon (as it appears), and I believe SAE's would be a better choice. Ray [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 44726	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 11/25/2009
Subject: Re: Home made CO2 system

This is the actual design with pictures that the hubby was going to use for an example: http://www.cichlid-forum.com/articles/diy_co2.php I wasn't asking how to make them Lenny ;) I was asking how to make sure I have enough to produce 15-20ppm of CO2 in my fish tanks. Thanks, Amber Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > > There weren't no pictures. Here's the one Chuck has on his Planted Tank > pages but it only shows the CO2 Reactor, not the Generator. > > http://www.csd.net/~cgadd/aqua/diy_reactor.htm > <http://www.csd.net/%7Ecgadd/aqua/diy_reactor.htm> > > Another link I had in my favorites disappeared from the net but using the > Internet Wayback Machine at http://www.Archive.org, > <http://www.Archive.org,> here is the archived > page... which has even prettier pictures... including a Reactor similar to > the one on Chuck's page but Chuck's is more advanced than this one. > > http://web.archive.org/web/20080727031555/http://www.qsl.net/w2wdx/aquaria/d > <http://web.archive.org/web/20080727031555/http://www.qsl.net/w2wdx/aquaria/d> > iyco2.html > > If the link breaks, go to http://www.archive.org > <http://www.archive.org> and in the top middle of > the page, you'll see the Internet Wayback Machine section. Just copy/paste > this link into the search field www.qsl.net/w2wdx/aquaria/diyco2.html > (<actual link no longer works) > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right > side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On > Behalf Of Amber Berglund > Sent: Tuesday, November 24, 2009 10:47 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Subject: [AquaticLife] Home made CO2 system > > So I'm getting the hubby to make me a few home made CO2 systems for my > fish > tanks to try out. It's based on the design on this site: > https://www.netpets.org/fish/reference/freshref/co2.html > <https://www.netpets.org/fish/reference/freshref/co2.html> > > My question is this; how do I figure out how many I will need to use on my > fish tanks? 55 gallon and 125 gallon tanks. The system says it will > generate > about 1 bubble per second after fermentation begins (without an airstone), > will it generate more bubbles with an air stone (no air pump)? How many > bubbles per second are needed to maintain about 15 ppm? > I'm so confused, LOL. > > Amber > > ------------------------------------ > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. > ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> > PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to > the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the > SUBJECT > LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- > <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. > > If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of unsubscribing, you > can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the > home page. > > Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:aquaticlife-digest%40yahoogroups.com> to receive the digest, which > includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email > > Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:aquaticlife-nomail%40yahoogroups.com> for the No E-Mail option > where > you will still be able to read messages on the group and post replies. > > Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:aquaticlife-normal%40yahoogroups.com> to receive individual > e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 44727	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 11/25/2009
Subject: Re: Home made CO2 system

I like the one that Chuck made for his planted tank, but I don't have the same kind of powerhead. I have the magnetic ones on the way (hydor koralia), so I'd have to do it different than his design. Amber Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > > There weren't no pictures. Here's the one Chuck has on his Planted Tank > pages but it only shows the CO2 Reactor, not the Generator. > > http://www.csd.net/~cgadd/aqua/diy_reactor.htm > <http://www.csd.net/%7Ecgadd/aqua/diy_reactor.htm> > > Another link I had in my favorites disappeared from the net but using the > Internet Wayback Machine at http://www.Archive.org, > <http://www.Archive.org,> here is the archived > page... which has even prettier pictures... including a Reactor similar to > the one on Chuck's page but Chuck's is more advanced than this one. > > http://web.archive.org/web/20080727031555/http://www.qsl.net/w2wdx/aquaria/d > <http://web.archive.org/web/20080727031555/http://www.qsl.net/w2wdx/aquaria/d> > iyco2.html > > If the link breaks, go to http://www.archive.org > <http://www.archive.org> and in the top middle of > the page, you'll see the Internet Wayback Machine section. Just copy/paste > this link into the search field www.qsl.net/w2wdx/aquaria/diyco2.html > (<actual link no longer works) > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right > side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On > Behalf Of Amber Berglund > Sent: Tuesday, November 24, 2009 10:47 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Subject: [AquaticLife] Home made CO2 system > > So I'm getting the hubby to make me a few home made CO2 systems for my > fish > tanks to try out. It's based on the design on this site: > https://www.netpets.org/fish/reference/freshref/co2.html > <https://www.netpets.org/fish/reference/freshref/co2.html> > > My question is this; how do I figure out how many I will need to use on my > fish tanks? 55 gallon and 125 gallon tanks. The system says it will > generate > about 1 bubble per second after fermentation begins (without an airstone), > will it generate more bubbles with an air stone (no air pump)? How many > bubbles per second are needed to maintain about 15 ppm? > I'm so confused, LOL. > > Amber > > ------------------------------------ > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. > ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> > PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to > the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the > SUBJECT > LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- > <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. > > If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of unsubscribing, you > can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the > home page. > > Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:aquaticlife-digest%40yahoogroups.com> to receive the digest, which > includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email > > Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:aquaticlife-nomail%40yahoogroups.com> for the No E-Mail option > where > you will still be able to read messages on the group and post replies. > > Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:aquaticlife-normal%40yahoogroups.com> to receive individual > e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 44728	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 11/25/2009
Subject: Re: Home made CO2 system

Also, what test kit would I get to test for the CO2 levels in the water? Amber Amber Berglund wrote: > This is the actual design with pictures that the hubby was going to > use for an example: > http://www.cichlid-forum.com/articles/diy_co2.php > I wasn't asking how to make them Lenny ;) I was asking how to make > sure I have enough to produce 15-20ppm of CO2 in my fish tanks. > > Thanks, > Amber > > > Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: >> >> There weren't no pictures. Here's the one Chuck has on his Planted Tank >> pages but it only shows the CO2 Reactor, not the Generator. >> >> http://www.csd.net/~cgadd/aqua/diy_reactor.htm >> <http://www.csd.net/%7Ecgadd/aqua/diy_reactor.htm> >> >> Another link I had in my favorites disappeared from the net but using >> the >> Internet Wayback Machine at http://www.Archive.org, >> <http://www.Archive.org,> here is the archived >> page... which has even prettier pictures... including a Reactor >> similar to >> the one on Chuck's page but Chuck's is more advanced than this one. >> >> http://web.archive.org/web/20080727031555/http://www.qsl.net/w2wdx/aquaria/d >> <http://web.archive.org/web/20080727031555/http://www.qsl.net/w2wdx/aquaria/d> >> >> iyco2.html >> >> If the link breaks, go to http://www.archive.org >> <http://www.archive.org> and in the top middle of >> the page, you'll see the Internet Wayback Machine section. Just >> copy/paste >> this link into the search field www.qsl.net/w2wdx/aquaria/diyco2.html >> (<actual link no longer works) >> >> Lenny Vasbinder >> Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com >> <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> >> (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right >> side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, >> Month) >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com >> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> >> [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com >> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On >> Behalf Of Amber Berglund >> Sent: Tuesday, November 24, 2009 10:47 PM >> To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> >> Subject: [AquaticLife] Home made CO2 system >> >> So I'm getting the hubby to make me a few home made CO2 systems for >> my fish >> tanks to try out. It's based on the design on this site: >> https://www.netpets.org/fish/reference/freshref/co2.html >> <https://www.netpets.org/fish/reference/freshref/co2.html> >> >> My question is this; how do I figure out how many I will need to use >> on my >> fish tanks? 55 gallon and 125 gallon tanks. The system says it will >> generate >> about 1 bubble per second after fermentation begins (without an >> airstone), >> will it generate more bubbles with an air stone (no air pump)? How many >> bubbles per second are needed to maintain about 15 ppm? >> I'm so confused, LOL. >> >> Amber >> >> ------------------------------------ >> >> Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank >> You. >> ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> >> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT >> important to >> the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the >> SUBJECT >> LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- >> <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. >> We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. >> >> If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of >> unsubscribing, you >> can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My Membership" >> on the >> home page. >> >> Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com >> <mailto:aquaticlife-digest%40yahoogroups.com> to receive the digest, >> which >> includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email >> >> Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com >> <mailto:aquaticlife-nomail%40yahoogroups.com> for the No E-Mail >> option where >> you will still be able to read messages on the group and post replies. >> >> Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com >> <mailto:aquaticlife-normal%40yahoogroups.com> to receive individual >> e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links >> >>

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 44729	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 11/25/2009
Subject: Re: Home made CO2 system

While not perfect, you should already have the test kits needed. Here's Chuck's page on how to use your pH and KH kits to determine your CO2 level. There's a calculator to enter your specific numbers or there's a simple chart also. http://www.csd.net/~cgadd/aqua/art_plant_co2chart.htm Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Amber Berglund Sent: Wednesday, November 25, 2009 11:46 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Home made CO2 system Also, what test kit would I get to test for the CO2 levels in the water? Amber Amber Berglund wrote: > This is the actual design with pictures that the hubby was going to > use for an example: > http://www.cichlid-forum.com/articles/diy_co2.php > I wasn't asking how to make them Lenny ;) I was asking how to make > sure I have enough to produce 15-20ppm of CO2 in my fish tanks. > > Thanks, > Amber > > > Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: >> >> There weren't no pictures. Here's the one Chuck has on his Planted >> Tank pages but it only shows the CO2 Reactor, not the Generator. >> >> http://www.csd.net/~cgadd/aqua/diy_reactor.htm >> <http://www.csd.net/%7Ecgadd/aqua/diy_reactor.htm> >> >> Another link I had in my favorites disappeared from the net but using >> the Internet Wayback Machine at http://www.Archive.org, >> <http://www.Archive.org,> here is the archived page... which has even >> prettier pictures... including a Reactor similar to the one on >> Chuck's page but Chuck's is more advanced than this one. >> >> http://web.archive.org/web/20080727031555/http://www.qsl.net/w2wdx/aq >> uaria/d >> <http://web.archive.org/web/20080727031555/http://www.qsl.net/w2wdx/a >> quaria/d> >> >> iyco2.html >> >> If the link breaks, go to http://www.archive.org >> <http://www.archive.org> and in the top middle of the page, you'll >> see the Internet Wayback Machine section. Just copy/paste this link >> into the search field www.qsl.net/w2wdx/aquaria/diyco2.html >> (<actual link no longer works) >> >> Lenny Vasbinder >> Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com >> <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> (Links to any articles referenced in >> above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels >> and also under Archives by Year, >> Month) >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com >> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> >> [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com >> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On Behalf Of Amber Berglund >> Sent: Tuesday, November 24, 2009 10:47 PM >> To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com >> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> >> Subject: [AquaticLife] Home made CO2 system >> >> So I'm getting the hubby to make me a few home made CO2 systems for >> my fish tanks to try out. It's based on the design on this site: >> https://www.netpets.org/fish/reference/freshref/co2.html >> <https://www.netpets.org/fish/reference/freshref/co2.html> >> >> My question is this; how do I figure out how many I will need to use >> on my fish tanks? 55 gallon and 125 gallon tanks. The system says it >> will generate about 1 bubble per second after fermentation begins >> (without an airstone), will it generate more bubbles with an air >> stone (no air pump)? How many bubbles per second are needed to >> maintain about 15 ppm? >> I'm so confused, LOL. >> >> Amber >> >> ------------------------------------ >> >> Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank >> You. >> ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , >> .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT >> that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the >> original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was >> re: old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , >> .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. >> We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. >> >> If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of >> unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by clicking on >> "Edit My Membership" >> on the >> home page. >> >> Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com >> <mailto:aquaticlife-digest%40yahoogroups.com> to receive the digest, >> which includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email >> >> Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com >> <mailto:aquaticlife-nomail%40yahoogroups.com> for the No E-Mail >> option where you will still be able to read messages on the group and >> post replies. >> >> Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com >> <mailto:aquaticlife-normal%40yahoogroups.com> to receive individual >> e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links >> >> ------------------------------------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the home page. Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com to receive the digest, which includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com for the No E-Mail option where you will still be able to read messages on the group and post replies. Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com to receive individual e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 44730	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 11/25/2009
Subject: Re: Home made CO2 system

Well, the reason I sent you that info on the Reactors is that the Reactor has as much to do with how well the CO2 bubbles get diffused and saturated into the water as the Generator. Read Chuck's page about his DIY Reactor and read that long "Treatise" article that I linked from the Archive.org website. As you'll see on Chuck's page, he was getting more CO2 ppm with a lot less bubbles when using the better Reactor. It also depends on how much CO2 you may already have in the water. Lots of variables so it's impossible to say how many Generators you will need... but the "Treatise" article will delve into more details about how many. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Amber Berglund Sent: Wednesday, November 25, 2009 11:41 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Home made CO2 system This is the actual design with pictures that the hubby was going to use for an example: http://www.cichlid-forum.com/articles/diy_co2.php I wasn't asking how to make them Lenny ;) I was asking how to make sure I have enough to produce 15-20ppm of CO2 in my fish tanks. Thanks, Amber Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > > There weren't no pictures. Here's the one Chuck has on his Planted > Tank pages but it only shows the CO2 Reactor, not the Generator. > > http://www.csd.net/~cgadd/aqua/diy_reactor.htm > <http://www.csd.net/%7Ecgadd/aqua/diy_reactor.htm> > > Another link I had in my favorites disappeared from the net but using > the Internet Wayback Machine at http://www.Archive.org, > <http://www.Archive.org,> here is the archived page... which has even > prettier pictures... including a Reactor similar to the one on Chuck's > page but Chuck's is more advanced than this one. > > http://web.archive.org/web/20080727031555/http://www.qsl.net/w2wdx/aqu > aria/d > <http://web.archive.org/web/20080727031555/http://www.qsl.net/w2wdx/aq > uaria/d> > iyco2.html > > If the link breaks, go to http://www.archive.org > <http://www.archive.org> and in the top middle of the page, you'll see > the Internet Wayback Machine section. Just copy/paste this link into > the search field www.qsl.net/w2wdx/aquaria/diyco2.html > (<actual link no longer works) > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> (Links to any articles referenced in > above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels > and also under Archives by Year, Month) > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On Behalf Of Amber Berglund > Sent: Tuesday, November 24, 2009 10:47 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Subject: [AquaticLife] Home made CO2 system > > So I'm getting the hubby to make me a few home made CO2 systems for my > fish tanks to try out. It's based on the design on this site: > https://www.netpets.org/fish/reference/freshref/co2.html > <https://www.netpets.org/fish/reference/freshref/co2.html> > > My question is this; how do I figure out how many I will need to use > on my fish tanks? 55 gallon and 125 gallon tanks. The system says it > will generate about 1 bubble per second after fermentation begins > (without an airstone), will it generate more bubbles with an air stone > (no air pump)? How many bubbles per second are needed to maintain > about 15 ppm? > I'm so confused, LOL. > > Amber > > ------------------------------------ > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. > ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , > .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT > that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the > original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: > old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , > .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. > > If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of unsubscribing, > you can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My > Membership" on the home page. > > Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:aquaticlife-digest%40yahoogroups.com> to receive the digest, > which includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email > > Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:aquaticlife-nomail%40yahoogroups.com> for the No E-Mail option > where you will still be able to read messages on the group and post > replies. > > Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:aquaticlife-normal%40yahoogroups.com> to receive individual > e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links > > ------------------------------------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the home page. Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com to receive the digest, which includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com for the No E-Mail option where you will still be able to read messages on the group and post replies. Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com to receive individual e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 44731	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 11/25/2009
Subject: Re: Home made CO2 system

You can still use the magnetic kind. Will it have a powerjet type attachment or just the wide-angle propeller with a safety shield over it? If it has the powerjet type attachment, just hook a piece of airline tubing over the jet output and point that down into the Reactor. The "Treatise" article also has other ideas using powerheads, etc. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Amber Berglund Sent: Wednesday, November 25, 2009 11:44 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Home made CO2 system I like the one that Chuck made for his planted tank, but I don't have the same kind of powerhead. I have the magnetic ones on the way (hydor koralia), so I'd have to do it different than his design. Amber Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > > There weren't no pictures. Here's the one Chuck has on his Planted > Tank pages but it only shows the CO2 Reactor, not the Generator. > > http://www.csd.net/~cgadd/aqua/diy_reactor.htm > <http://www.csd.net/%7Ecgadd/aqua/diy_reactor.htm> > > Another link I had in my favorites disappeared from the net but using > the Internet Wayback Machine at http://www.Archive.org, > <http://www.Archive.org,> here is the archived page... which has even > prettier pictures... including a Reactor similar to the one on Chuck's > page but Chuck's is more advanced than this one. > > http://web.archive.org/web/20080727031555/http://www.qsl.net/w2wdx/aqu > aria/d > <http://web.archive.org/web/20080727031555/http://www.qsl.net/w2wdx/aq > uaria/d> > iyco2.html > > If the link breaks, go to http://www.archive.org > <http://www.archive.org> and in the top middle of the page, you'll see > the Internet Wayback Machine section. Just copy/paste this link into > the search field www.qsl.net/w2wdx/aquaria/diyco2.html > (<actual link no longer works) > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> (Links to any articles referenced in > above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels > and also under Archives by Year, Month) > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On Behalf Of Amber Berglund > Sent: Tuesday, November 24, 2009 10:47 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Subject: [AquaticLife] Home made CO2 system > > So I'm getting the hubby to make me a few home made CO2 systems for my > fish tanks to try out. It's based on the design on this site: > https://www.netpets.org/fish/reference/freshref/co2.html > <https://www.netpets.org/fish/reference/freshref/co2.html> > > My question is this; how do I figure out how many I will need to use > on my fish tanks? 55 gallon and 125 gallon tanks. The system says it > will generate about 1 bubble per second after fermentation begins > (without an airstone), will it generate more bubbles with an air stone > (no air pump)? How many bubbles per second are needed to maintain > about 15 ppm? > I'm so confused, LOL. > > Amber > > ------------------------------------ > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. > ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , > .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT > that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the > original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: > old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , > .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. > > If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of unsubscribing, > you can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My > Membership" on the home page. > > Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:aquaticlife-digest%40yahoogroups.com> to receive the digest, > which includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email > > Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:aquaticlife-nomail%40yahoogroups.com> for the No E-Mail option > where you will still be able to read messages on the group and post > replies. > > Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:aquaticlife-normal%40yahoogroups.com> to receive individual > e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links > > ------------------------------------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the home page. Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com to receive the digest, which includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com for the No E-Mail option where you will still be able to read messages on the group and post replies. Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com to receive individual e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 44732	From: Gail Armstrong	Date: 11/25/2009
Subject: Re: Thank you for having me and HELP!!

Thank you so much for your reply. All of the "newer" fish have died, and now I have one of my older guys acting a little like he is next. My pump is positioned 5 inches from the bottom of the pond. I am at a loss as to what to do, my pond is over 10 years old, and I have never had this happen. Thanks again! gail ----- Original Message ----- From: sevenspringss@... To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Wednesday, November 25, 2009 1:51 AM Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Thank you for having me and HELP!! Gail, this could be due to a number of different things, from poor stock (as it affected only these newer ones), to some disease that they may have brought in, to improper food (or feeding) for the water temperature you now have. They could have flukes (either skin or gill flukes) which is a fairly common pond fish disease -- especially if you've noticed them "flashing" against the bottom or objects/rocks. As your water temperature is now dropping because of your colder weather, you should stop feeding below 45 o -- 50 o. Up until then, but still at cooler temperatures somewhat above 50 o, you should have been feeding them a wheat germ based (Spring & Fall) food which is more easily digestible at those temperatures -- and then -- their feedings should have been cut back to every other day and finally every 3 days before discontinuing. Summer foods, containing more protein, will only tend to putrify in the fish's digestive system at low water temperatures as they're unable to properly digest it. As this aeration has just been introduced to your pond, there could be a connection there since this die off seems to be coinciding with it, especially if the air source (pump placement) of this aeration is in an area that may be picking up volatile fumes (from paint or lawnmower gas cans), etc. In much colder water (when the surface is iced over), the aeration should only be as strong as needed to create an opening in the ice, and should never be employed near the bottom of the pond but closer to the surface. Placing the aerator at or near the bottom of the pond will push the warmer bottom water up into the water column, and turn the pond water over forcing the colder surface water down to the bottom. Ray [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 44733	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 11/25/2009
Subject: Re: Thank you for having me and HELP!!

What is your water temp? If your pond gets down into the 30's, 40's or freezes over... and I think you mentioned that you use an air pump to keep a hole in the ice so I took that to mean the pond sometimes freezes over, then your filters should be turned off and the "pump", if that means an air pump, should only be just below the surface of the water, NOT down near the bottom. If it's near the bottom then the rising bubbles will actually create a mild circulation in the pond which will mess up the warmer thermoclines near the bottom of the pond that the fish will find and hang out in during the over-wintering process. While I've never had to use anything to keep an vent hole since I'm in an area where ponds never freeze over, I have read lots of information about de-icers. I think that one of the DIY light bulb powered floating de-icers are probably better and more cost effective than running an air pump. For example, a 60 watt light bulb runs for about a dollar a month electricity costs, whereas I think a pump would cost more. The DIY light bulb de-icer also can be built with dual bulbs so you have redundancy in the event one of the bulbs burns out. Also you can more easily see if the bulbs are on from a distance (like from the warmth of your home) so you'll know it's working. The light bulb de-icers also do not cause as many possible issues with causing water circulation in the pond so the thermoclines stay more intact. See my previous post also. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Gail Armstrong Sent: Wednesday, November 25, 2009 11:01 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Thank you for having me and HELP!! Thank you so much for your reply. All of the "newer" fish have died, and now I have one of my older guys acting a little like he is next. My pump is positioned 5 inches from the bottom of the pond. I am at a loss as to what to do, my pond is over 10 years old, and I have never had this happen. Thanks again! gail ----- Original Message ----- From: sevenspringss@... To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Wednesday, November 25, 2009 1:51 AM Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Thank you for having me and HELP!! Gail, this could be due to a number of different things, from poor stock (as it affected only these newer ones), to some disease that they may have brought in, to improper food (or feeding) for the water temperature you now have. They could have flukes (either skin or gill flukes) which is a fairly common pond fish disease -- especially if you've noticed them "flashing" against the bottom or objects/rocks. As your water temperature is now dropping because of your colder weather, you should stop feeding below 45 o -- 50 o. Up until then, but still at cooler temperatures somewhat above 50 o, you should have been feeding them a wheat germ based (Spring & Fall) food which is more easily digestible at those temperatures -- and then -- their feedings should have been cut back to every other day and finally every 3 days before discontinuing. Summer foods, containing more protein, will only tend to putrify in the fish's digestive system at low water temperatures as they're unable to properly digest it. As this aeration has just been introduced to your pond, there could be a connection there since this die off seems to be coinciding with it, especially if the air source (pump placement) of this aeration is in an area that may be picking up volatile fumes (from paint or lawnmower gas cans), etc. In much colder water (when the surface is iced over), the aeration should only be as strong as needed to create an opening in the ice, and should never be employed near the bottom of the pond but closer to the surface. Placing the aerator at or near the bottom of the pond will push the warmer bottom water up into the water column, and turn the pond water over forcing the colder surface water down to the bottom. Ray [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] ------------------------------------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the home page. Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com to receive the digest, which includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com for the No E-Mail option where you will still be able to read messages on the group and post replies. Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com to receive individual e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 44734	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 11/25/2009
Subject: Re: Home made CO2 system

I'm getting one of these powerheads specifically: http://www.marinedepot.com/Hydor_Koralia_Circulation_Pump_Powerhead_UL_Fixed_Flow_Aquarium_Powerheads-Hydor_USA-HD19101-FIPHFF-vi.html The intake is right behind the fan so you can't just hook a hose up to it on the outtake, it's like a mini fan under water. Perhaps I could just get some sort of tube (like an old gravel vac tube) that will fit over it, I will have to see how big they are when they arrive (they should be here next week). Until then I'm not sure if I will be able to set up any of these DIY CO2 systems in any of my tanks except the 55 upstairs, as I already have a powerhead handy in that one that I can move for now. Will have to get the hubby to look over the 2 types and see if he can make something to work with my powerheads. Amber Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > > You can still use the magnetic kind. Will it have a powerjet type > attachment or just the wide-angle propeller with a safety shield over it? > If it has the powerjet type attachment, just hook a piece of airline > tubing > over the jet output and point that down into the Reactor. The "Treatise" > article also has other ideas using powerheads, etc. > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right > side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) > > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On > Behalf Of Amber Berglund > Sent: Wednesday, November 25, 2009 11:44 AM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Home made CO2 system > > I like the one that Chuck made for his planted tank, but I don't have the > same kind of powerhead. I have the magnetic ones on the way (hydor > koralia), > so I'd have to do it different than his design. > > Amber > > Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > > > > There weren't no pictures. Here's the one Chuck has on his Planted > > Tank pages but it only shows the CO2 Reactor, not the Generator. > > > > http://www.csd.net/~cgadd/aqua/diy_reactor.htm > <http://www.csd.net/%7Ecgadd/aqua/diy_reactor.htm> > > <http://www.csd.net/%7Ecgadd/aqua/diy_reactor.htm > <http://www.csd.net/%7Ecgadd/aqua/diy_reactor.htm>> > > > > Another link I had in my favorites disappeared from the net but using > > the Internet Wayback Machine at http://www.Archive.org, > <http://www.Archive.org,> > > <http://www.Archive.org, <http://www.Archive.org,>> here is the > archived page... which has even > > prettier pictures... including a Reactor similar to the one on Chuck's > > page but Chuck's is more advanced than this one. > > > > > http://web.archive.org/web/20080727031555/http://www.qsl.net/w2wdx/aqu > <http://web.archive.org/web/20080727031555/http://www.qsl.net/w2wdx/aqu> > > aria/d > > > <http://web.archive.org/web/20080727031555/http://www.qsl.net/w2wdx/aq > <http://web.archive.org/web/20080727031555/http://www.qsl.net/w2wdx/aq> > > uaria/d> > > iyco2.html > > > > If the link breaks, go to http://www.archive.org > <http://www.archive.org> > > <http://www.archive.org <http://www.archive.org>> and in the top > middle of the page, you'll see > > the Internet Wayback Machine section. Just copy/paste this link into > > the search field www.qsl.net/w2wdx/aquaria/diyco2.html > > (<actual link no longer works) > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>> > (Links to any articles referenced in > > above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels > > and also under Archives by Year, Month) > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On Behalf Of Amber Berglund > > Sent: Tuesday, November 24, 2009 10:47 PM > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > Subject: [AquaticLife] Home made CO2 system > > > > So I'm getting the hubby to make me a few home made CO2 systems for my > > fish tanks to try out. It's based on the design on this site: > > https://www.netpets.org/fish/reference/freshref/co2.html > <https://www.netpets.org/fish/reference/freshref/co2.html> > > <https://www.netpets.org/fish/reference/freshref/co2.html > <https://www.netpets.org/fish/reference/freshref/co2.html>> > > > > My question is this; how do I figure out how many I will need to use > > on my fish tanks? 55 gallon and 125 gallon tanks. The system says it > > will generate about 1 bubble per second after fermentation begins > > (without an airstone), will it generate more bubbles with an air stone > > (no air pump)? How many bubbles per second are needed to maintain > > about 15 ppm? > > I'm so confused, LOL. > > > > Amber > > > > ------------------------------------ > > > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, > Thank You. > > ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , > > .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT > > that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the > > original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: > > old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , > > .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. > > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. > > > > If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of unsubscribing, > > you can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My > > Membership" on the home page. > > > > Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:aquaticlife-digest%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:aquaticlife-digest%40yahoogroups.com> to receive the digest, > > which includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email > > > > Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:aquaticlife-nomail%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:aquaticlife-nomail%40yahoogroups.com> for the No E-Mail option > > where you will still be able to read messages on the group and post > > replies. > > > > Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:aquaticlife-normal%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:aquaticlife-normal%40yahoogroups.com> to receive individual > > e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > ------------------------------------ > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. > ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> > PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to > the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the > SUBJECT > LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- > <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. > > If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of unsubscribing, you > can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the > home page. > > Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:aquaticlife-digest%40yahoogroups.com> to receive the digest, which > includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email > > Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:aquaticlife-nomail%40yahoogroups.com> for the No E-Mail option > where > you will still be able to read messages on the group and post replies. > > Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:aquaticlife-normal%40yahoogroups.com> to receive individual > e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 44735	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 11/25/2009
Subject: Re: Home made CO2 system

This type of "Circulation Pump" powerhead is more for circulation only, whereas a powerhead can be used for circulation but also used for powering UGF filters, ReverseUGF filters, etc.... and of course, the DIY CO2 Reactor. Maybe you can use this new "Circulation Pump" for it's intended purpose and take one of your older *normal* powerheads and use it for the CO2 Reactor. Normal powerheads are also much less expensive than these newer oscillating fan type circulation pumps... well maybe yours doesn't oscillate but others of this same design do oscillate as well. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Amber Berglund Sent: Wednesday, November 25, 2009 1:06 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Home made CO2 system I'm getting one of these powerheads specifically: http://www.marinedepot.com/Hydor_Koralia_Circulation_Pump_Powerhead_UL_Fixed _Flow_Aquarium_Powerheads-Hydor_USA-HD19101-FIPHFF-vi.html The intake is right behind the fan so you can't just hook a hose up to it on the outtake, it's like a mini fan under water. Perhaps I could just get some sort of tube (like an old gravel vac tube) that will fit over it, I will have to see how big they are when they arrive (they should be here next week). Until then I'm not sure if I will be able to set up any of these DIY CO2 systems in any of my tanks except the 55 upstairs, as I already have a powerhead handy in that one that I can move for now. Will have to get the hubby to look over the 2 types and see if he can make something to work with my powerheads. Amber Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > > You can still use the magnetic kind. Will it have a powerjet type > attachment or just the wide-angle propeller with a safety shield over it? > If it has the powerjet type attachment, just hook a piece of airline > tubing over the jet output and point that down into the Reactor. The > "Treatise" > article also has other ideas using powerheads, etc. > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> (Links to any articles referenced in > above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels > and also under Archives by Year, Month) > > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On Behalf Of Amber Berglund > Sent: Wednesday, November 25, 2009 11:44 AM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Home made CO2 system > > I like the one that Chuck made for his planted tank, but I don't have > the same kind of powerhead. I have the magnetic ones on the way (hydor > koralia), so I'd have to do it different than his design. > > Amber > > Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > > > > There weren't no pictures. Here's the one Chuck has on his Planted > > Tank pages but it only shows the CO2 Reactor, not the Generator. > > > > http://www.csd.net/~cgadd/aqua/diy_reactor.htm > <http://www.csd.net/%7Ecgadd/aqua/diy_reactor.htm> > > <http://www.csd.net/%7Ecgadd/aqua/diy_reactor.htm > <http://www.csd.net/%7Ecgadd/aqua/diy_reactor.htm>> > > > > Another link I had in my favorites disappeared from the net but > > using the Internet Wayback Machine at http://www.Archive.org, > <http://www.Archive.org,> > > <http://www.Archive.org, <http://www.Archive.org,>> here is the > archived page... which has even > > prettier pictures... including a Reactor similar to the one on > > Chuck's page but Chuck's is more advanced than this one. > > > > > http://web.archive.org/web/20080727031555/http://www.qsl.net/w2wdx/aqu > <http://web.archive.org/web/20080727031555/http://www.qsl.net/w2wdx/aq > u> > > aria/d > > > <http://web.archive.org/web/20080727031555/http://www.qsl.net/w2wdx/aq > <http://web.archive.org/web/20080727031555/http://www.qsl.net/w2wdx/aq > > > > uaria/d> > > iyco2.html > > > > If the link breaks, go to http://www.archive.org > <http://www.archive.org> > > <http://www.archive.org <http://www.archive.org>> and in the top > middle of the page, you'll see > > the Internet Wayback Machine section. Just copy/paste this link into > > the search field www.qsl.net/w2wdx/aquaria/diyco2.html > > (<actual link no longer works) > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>> > (Links to any articles referenced in > > above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under > > Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On Behalf Of Amber Berglund > > Sent: Tuesday, November 24, 2009 10:47 PM > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > Subject: [AquaticLife] Home made CO2 system > > > > So I'm getting the hubby to make me a few home made CO2 systems for > > my fish tanks to try out. It's based on the design on this site: > > https://www.netpets.org/fish/reference/freshref/co2.html > <https://www.netpets.org/fish/reference/freshref/co2.html> > > <https://www.netpets.org/fish/reference/freshref/co2.html > <https://www.netpets.org/fish/reference/freshref/co2.html>> > > > > My question is this; how do I figure out how many I will need to use > > on my fish tanks? 55 gallon and 125 gallon tanks. The system says it > > will generate about 1 bubble per second after fermentation begins > > (without an airstone), will it generate more bubbles with an air > > stone (no air pump)? How many bubbles per second are needed to > > maintain about 15 ppm? > > I'm so confused, LOL. > > > > Amber > > > > ------------------------------------ > > > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, > Thank You. > > ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , > > .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT > > that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the > > original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: > > old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , > > .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. > > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. > > > > If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of > > unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by clicking on > > "Edit My Membership" on the home page. > > > > Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:aquaticlife-digest%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:aquaticlife-digest%40yahoogroups.com> to receive the digest, > > which includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email > > > > Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:aquaticlife-nomail%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:aquaticlife-nomail%40yahoogroups.com> for the No E-Mail > > option where you will still be able to read messages on the group > > and post replies. > > > > Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:aquaticlife-normal%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:aquaticlife-normal%40yahoogroups.com> to receive individual > > e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > ------------------------------------ > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. > ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , > .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT > that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the > original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: > old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , > .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. > > If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of unsubscribing, > you can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My > Membership" on the home page. > > Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:aquaticlife-digest%40yahoogroups.com> to receive the digest, > which includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email > > Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:aquaticlife-nomail%40yahoogroups.com> for the No E-Mail option > where you will still be able to read messages on the group and post > replies. > > Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:aquaticlife-normal%40yahoogroups.com> to receive individual > e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links > > ------------------------------------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the home page. Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com to receive the digest, which includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com for the No E-Mail option where you will still be able to read messages on the group and post replies. Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com to receive individual e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 44736	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 11/25/2009
Subject: Re: Home made CO2 system

Something else I just thought about and also read about on Chuck's CO2 page is that you will have to keep a closer eye on your crushed coral since the addition of CO2 will make the water more acidic and cause the crushed coral to dissolve faster. Here's the snip from Chuck's page about this issue... http://www.csd.net/~cgadd/aqua/art_plant_co2chart.htm "There is one case I've seen where the addition of CO2 resulted in an increase in KH. This can happen when you have something in the tank that dissolves carbonate into the water. Seashells, crushed coral, and many gravels and rocks will do this. With the addition of CO2, the water turns more acidic, which will increase the dissolving of the minerals. It appears that increasing CO2 raises the KH, which isn't really the case. The dissolving minerals raise the KH, and the increase in KH results in an increase in pH. In a system using a pH probe and controller to regulate CO2 levels, this can have fatal consequences, since the pH controller will keep trying to lower the pH, but as more CO2 is dissolved, it lowers the pH, which raises the KH, which raises the pH. So you now have more CO2, but the same pH. So the controller adds even MORE CO2. And it will keep going. So it's important to know your KH whenever using pH to judge CO2 levels." (END SNIP) Since you will not be using a pH controller, you shouldn't have any kind of catastrophic issues but you may find your crushed coral dissolving at a faster rate. This is actually needed since the plants should be growing faster anyhow and will be using up more carbonates. I just do not want you to run out of crushed coral in your tanks where you use it to buffer up your low pH water. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Amber Berglund Sent: Wednesday, November 25, 2009 1:06 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Home made CO2 system I'm getting one of these powerheads specifically: http://www.marinedepot.com/Hydor_Koralia_Circulation_Pump_Powerhead_UL_Fixed _Flow_Aquarium_Powerheads-Hydor_USA-HD19101-FIPHFF-vi.html The intake is right behind the fan so you can't just hook a hose up to it on the outtake, it's like a mini fan under water. Perhaps I could just get some sort of tube (like an old gravel vac tube) that will fit over it, I will have to see how big they are when they arrive (they should be here next week). Until then I'm not sure if I will be able to set up any of these DIY CO2 systems in any of my tanks except the 55 upstairs, as I already have a powerhead handy in that one that I can move for now. Will have to get the hubby to look over the 2 types and see if he can make something to work with my powerheads. Amber Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > > You can still use the magnetic kind. Will it have a powerjet type > attachment or just the wide-angle propeller with a safety shield over it? > If it has the powerjet type attachment, just hook a piece of airline > tubing over the jet output and point that down into the Reactor. The > "Treatise" > article also has other ideas using powerheads, etc. > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> (Links to any articles referenced in > above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels > and also under Archives by Year, Month) > > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On Behalf Of Amber Berglund > Sent: Wednesday, November 25, 2009 11:44 AM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Home made CO2 system > > I like the one that Chuck made for his planted tank, but I don't have > the same kind of powerhead. I have the magnetic ones on the way (hydor > koralia), so I'd have to do it different than his design. > > Amber > > Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > > > > There weren't no pictures. Here's the one Chuck has on his Planted > > Tank pages but it only shows the CO2 Reactor, not the Generator. > > > > http://www.csd.net/~cgadd/aqua/diy_reactor.htm > <http://www.csd.net/%7Ecgadd/aqua/diy_reactor.htm> > > <http://www.csd.net/%7Ecgadd/aqua/diy_reactor.htm > <http://www.csd.net/%7Ecgadd/aqua/diy_reactor.htm>> > > > > Another link I had in my favorites disappeared from the net but > > using the Internet Wayback Machine at http://www.Archive.org, > <http://www.Archive.org,> > > <http://www.Archive.org, <http://www.Archive.org,>> here is the > archived page... which has even > > prettier pictures... including a Reactor similar to the one on > > Chuck's page but Chuck's is more advanced than this one. > > > > > http://web.archive.org/web/20080727031555/http://www.qsl.net/w2wdx/aqu > <http://web.archive.org/web/20080727031555/http://www.qsl.net/w2wdx/aq > u> > > aria/d > > > <http://web.archive.org/web/20080727031555/http://www.qsl.net/w2wdx/aq > <http://web.archive.org/web/20080727031555/http://www.qsl.net/w2wdx/aq > > > > uaria/d> > > iyco2.html > > > > If the link breaks, go to http://www.archive.org > <http://www.archive.org> > > <http://www.archive.org <http://www.archive.org>> and in the top > middle of the page, you'll see > > the Internet Wayback Machine section. Just copy/paste this link into > > the search field www.qsl.net/w2wdx/aquaria/diyco2.html > > (<actual link no longer works) > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>> > (Links to any articles referenced in > > above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under > > Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On Behalf Of Amber Berglund > > Sent: Tuesday, November 24, 2009 10:47 PM > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > Subject: [AquaticLife] Home made CO2 system > > > > So I'm getting the hubby to make me a few home made CO2 systems for > > my fish tanks to try out. It's based on the design on this site: > > https://www.netpets.org/fish/reference/freshref/co2.html > <https://www.netpets.org/fish/reference/freshref/co2.html> > > <https://www.netpets.org/fish/reference/freshref/co2.html > <https://www.netpets.org/fish/reference/freshref/co2.html>> > > > > My question is this; how do I figure out how many I will need to use > > on my fish tanks? 55 gallon and 125 gallon tanks. The system says it > > will generate about 1 bubble per second after fermentation begins > > (without an airstone), will it generate more bubbles with an air > > stone (no air pump)? How many bubbles per second are needed to > > maintain about 15 ppm? > > I'm so confused, LOL. > > > > Amber

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 44737	From: harry perry	Date: 11/25/2009
Subject: Re: Home made CO2 system/Another version

I don't have any pictures, sorry. What I use is a gravel vac tube and a power head . The tube is directly connected to the power head . Used a heated drill bit to put a hole through the closed end of the tube and also the cap of my soda bottle. So, what you have is an  air hose coming from the CO2 bottle. It goes through the "burned" hole in the closed end of the vacuum tube and then a silicon air stone. Regular air stones will dissolve over time. I stuffed the tube with spun polyester(filter material) and put a piece of sponge in the bottom of the tube. The power head hangs by suction cups (meant for the side of the tank) from the top glass cover. Shoots water down into the tube.The co2 line is sealed where it enters the tube and where it enters the soda bottle with silicon cement.  The goal is not to have any CO2 bubbles escape. It works fine. However I got the same excellent plant growth by using Flourish Excel. More expensive but easier. Harry --- On Wed, 11/25/09, Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@...> wrote: From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@...> Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Home made CO2 system To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Date: Wednesday, November 25, 2009, 2:11 AM   There weren't no pictures. Here's the one Chuck has on his Planted Tank pages but it only shows the CO2 Reactor, not the Generator. http://www.csd. net/~cgadd/ aqua/diy_ reactor.htm Another link I had in my favorites disappeared from the net but using the Internet Wayback Machine at http://www.Archive. org, here is the archived page... which has even prettier pictures... including a Reactor similar to the one on Chuck's page but Chuck's is more advanced than this one. http://web.archive. org/web/20080727 031555/http: //www.qsl. net/w2wdx/ aquaria/d iyco2.html If the link breaks, go to http://www.archive. org and in the top middle of the page, you'll see the Internet Wayback Machine section. Just copy/paste this link into the search field www.qsl.net/ w2wdx/aquaria/ diyco2.html (<actual link no longer works) Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com [mailto:AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com] On Behalf Of Amber Berglund Sent: Tuesday, November 24, 2009 10:47 PM To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com Subject: [AquaticLife] Home made CO2 system So I'm getting the hubby to make me a few home made CO2 systems for my fish tanks to try out. It's based on the design on this site: https://www. netpets.org/ fish/reference/ freshref/ co2.html My question is this; how do I figure out how many I will need to use on my fish tanks? 55 gallon and 125 gallon tanks. The system says it will generate about 1 bubble per second after fermentation begins (without an airstone), will it generate more bubbles with an air stone (no air pump)? How many bubbles per second are needed to maintain about 15 ppm? I'm so confused, LOL. Amber ------------ --------- --------- ------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the home page. Or e-mail aquaticlife- digest@yahoogrou ps.com to receive the digest, which includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email Or email aquaticlife- nomail@yahoogrou ps.com for the No E-Mail option where you will still be able to read messages on the group and post replies. Or email aquaticlife- normal@yahoogrou ps.com to receive individual e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 44738	From: Gail Armstrong	Date: 11/25/2009
Subject: Tail and Fin Disease

Thank you for your advice everyone., I took my latest victum to my local fish and pond store. They said it is Tail and Fin Disease and sole me some meds to introduce to my pond daily for a few days. Right now there is another poor fish hanging on to life but the others are, as yet, "acting" normal. Thanks again for your help. This has been quite a wake up call., I have never had anything like this happen over the last 10 years. gail ----- Original Message ----- From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Wednesday, November 25, 2009 12:57 PM Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Thank you for having me and HELP!! What is your water temp? If your pond gets down into the 30's, 40's or freezes over... and I think you mentioned that you use an air pump to keep a hole in the ice so I took that to mean the pond sometimes freezes over, then your filters should be turned off and the "pump", if that means an air pump, should only be just below the surface of the water, NOT down near the bottom. If it's near the bottom then the rising bubbles will actually create a mild circulation in the pond which will mess up the warmer thermoclines near the bottom of the pond that the fish will find and hang out in during the over-wintering process. While I've never had to use anything to keep an vent hole since I'm in an area where ponds never freeze over, I have read lots of information about de-icers. I think that one of the DIY light bulb powered floating de-icers are probably better and more cost effective than running an air pump. For example, a 60 watt light bulb runs for about a dollar a month electricity costs, whereas I think a pump would cost more. The DIY light bulb de-icer also can be built with dual bulbs so you have redundancy in the event one of the bulbs burns out. Also you can more easily see if the bulbs are on from a distance (like from the warmth of your home) so you'll know it's working. The light bulb de-icers also do not cause as many possible issues with causing water circulation in the pond so the thermoclines stay more intact. See my previous post also. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Gail Armstrong Sent: Wednesday, November 25, 2009 11:01 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Thank you for having me and HELP!! Thank you so much for your reply. All of the "newer" fish have died, and now I have one of my older guys acting a little like he is next. My pump is positioned 5 inches from the bottom of the pond. I am at a loss as to what to do, my pond is over 10 years old, and I have never had this happen. Thanks again! gail ----- Original Message ----- From: sevenspringss@... To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Wednesday, November 25, 2009 1:51 AM Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Thank you for having me and HELP!! Gail, this could be due to a number of different things, from poor stock (as it affected only these newer ones), to some disease that they may have brought in, to improper food (or feeding) for the water temperature you now have. They could have flukes (either skin or gill flukes) which is a fairly common pond fish disease -- especially if you've noticed them "flashing" against the bottom or objects/rocks. As your water temperature is now dropping because of your colder weather, you should stop feeding below 45 o -- 50 o. Up until then, but still at cooler temperatures somewhat above 50 o, you should have been feeding them a wheat germ based (Spring & Fall) food which is more easily digestible at those temperatures -- and then -- their feedings should have been cut back to every other day and finally every 3 days before discontinuing. Summer foods, containing more protein, will only tend to putrify in the fish's digestive system at low water temperatures as they're unable to properly digest it. As this aeration has just been introduced to your pond, there could be a connection there since this die off seems to be coinciding with it, especially if the air source (pump placement) of this aeration is in an area that may be picking up volatile fumes (from paint or lawnmower gas cans), etc. In much colder water (when the surface is iced over), the aeration should only be as strong as needed to create an opening in the ice, and should never be employed near the bottom of the pond but closer to the surface. Placing the aerator at or near the bottom of the pond will push the warmer bottom water up into the water column, and turn the pond water over forcing the colder surface water down to the bottom. Ray [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] ------------------------------------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the home page. Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com to receive the digest, which includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com for the No E-Mail option where you will still be able to read messages on the group and post replies. Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com to receive individual e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 44739	From: harry perry	Date: 11/25/2009
Subject: Re: Home made CO2 system/Amber

First off you definitely need a reactor. I think it mentions that in your article. Just letting a soda bottle bubble through a line is a waste of time. The CO2 simple bubbles to the top of your tank and escapes as a gas. There are such things as bubble regulators and counters but if your going to do that then you might as well get a CO2 tank and the valves and regulators etc. etc. Christmas is coming and it sounds like hubby has deep pockets. For your big tank the DIY method might not be practical. You'll need 5 of these set ups for your big tank. You won't be able to see the fish for the air lines. You'll probably need the tank and regulators and valves. That might be the most cost effective way of doing it. Flourish Excel will cost a bunch for your big tank. Harry --- On Tue, 11/24/09, Amber Berglund <arberglund@...> wrote: From: Amber Berglund <arberglund@...> Subject: [AquaticLife] Home made CO2 system To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Date: Tuesday, November 24, 2009, 11:47 PM   So I'm getting the hubby to make me a few home made CO2 systems for my fish tanks to try out. It's based on the design on this site: https://www. netpets.org/ fish/reference/ freshref/ co2.html My question is this; how do I figure out how many I will need to use on my fish tanks? 55 gallon and 125 gallon tanks. The system says it will generate about 1 bubble per second after fermentation begins (without an airstone), will it generate more bubbles with an air stone (no air pump)? How many bubbles per second are needed to maintain about 15 ppm? I'm so confused, LOL. Amber [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 44740	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 11/25/2009
Subject: Re: Home made CO2 system

I don't have any "normal" powerheads, these were on sale 20% off so I got them instead. Any advice on how to use them instead of buying another powerhead? Amber Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > > This type of "Circulation Pump" powerhead is more for circulation only, > whereas a powerhead can be used for circulation but also used for powering > UGF filters, ReverseUGF filters, etc.... and of course, the DIY CO2 > Reactor. > Maybe you can use this new "Circulation Pump" for it's intended > purpose and > take one of your older *normal* powerheads and use it for the CO2 Reactor. > Normal powerheads are also much less expensive than these newer > oscillating > fan type circulation pumps... well maybe yours doesn't oscillate but > others > of this same design do oscillate as well. > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right > side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On > Behalf Of Amber Berglund > Sent: Wednesday, November 25, 2009 1:06 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Home made CO2 system > > I'm getting one of these powerheads specifically: > http://www.marinedepot.com/Hydor_Koralia_Circulation_Pump_Powerhead_UL_Fixed > <http://www.marinedepot.com/Hydor_Koralia_Circulation_Pump_Powerhead_UL_Fixed> > _Flow_Aquarium_Powerheads-Hydor_USA-HD19101-FIPHFF-vi.html > The intake is right behind the fan so you can't just hook a hose up to > it on > the outtake, it's like a mini fan under water. Perhaps I could just > get some > sort of tube (like an old gravel vac tube) that will fit over it, I will > have to see how big they are when they arrive (they should be here next > week). Until then I'm not sure if I will be able to set up any of > these DIY > CO2 systems in any of my tanks except the 55 upstairs, as I already have a > powerhead handy in that one that I can move for now. Will have to get the > hubby to look over the 2 types and see if he can make something to > work with > my powerheads. > > Amber > > Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > > > > You can still use the magnetic kind. Will it have a powerjet type > > attachment or just the wide-angle propeller with a safety shield > over it? > > If it has the powerjet type attachment, just hook a piece of airline > > tubing over the jet output and point that down into the Reactor. The > > "Treatise" > > article also has other ideas using powerheads, etc. > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>> > (Links to any articles referenced in > > above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels > > and also under Archives by Year, Month) > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On Behalf Of Amber Berglund > > Sent: Wednesday, November 25, 2009 11:44 AM > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Home made CO2 system > > > > I like the one that Chuck made for his planted tank, but I don't have > > the same kind of powerhead. I have the magnetic ones on the way (hydor > > koralia), so I'd have to do it different than his design. > > > > Amber > > > > Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > > > > > > There weren't no pictures. Here's the one Chuck has on his Planted > > > Tank pages but it only shows the CO2 Reactor, not the Generator. > > > > > > http://www.csd.net/~cgadd/aqua/diy_reactor.htm > <http://www.csd.net/%7Ecgadd/aqua/diy_reactor.htm> > > <http://www.csd.net/%7Ecgadd/aqua/diy_reactor.htm > <http://www.csd.net/%7Ecgadd/aqua/diy_reactor.htm>> > > > <http://www.csd.net/%7Ecgadd/aqua/diy_reactor.htm > <http://www.csd.net/%7Ecgadd/aqua/diy_reactor.htm> > > <http://www.csd.net/%7Ecgadd/aqua/diy_reactor.htm > <http://www.csd.net/%7Ecgadd/aqua/diy_reactor.htm>>> > > > > > > Another link I had in my favorites disappeared from the net but > > > using the Internet Wayback Machine at http://www.Archive.org, > <http://www.Archive.org,> > > <http://www.Archive.org, <http://www.Archive.org,>> > > > <http://www.Archive.org, <http://www.Archive.org,> > <http://www.Archive.org, <http://www.Archive.org,>>> here is the > > archived page... which has even > > > prettier pictures... including a Reactor similar to the one on > > > Chuck's page but Chuck's is more advanced than this one. > > > > > > > > > http://web.archive.org/web/20080727031555/http://www.qsl.net/w2wdx/aqu > <http://web.archive.org/web/20080727031555/http://www.qsl.net/w2wdx/aqu> > > > <http://web.archive.org/web/20080727031555/http://www.qsl.net/w2wdx/aq > <http://web.archive.org/web/20080727031555/http://www.qsl.net/w2wdx/aq> > > u> > > > aria/d > > > > > > <http://web.archive.org/web/20080727031555/http://www.qsl.net/w2wdx/aq > <http://web.archive.org/web/20080727031555/http://www.qsl.net/w2wdx/aq> > > > <http://web.archive.org/web/20080727031555/http://www.qsl.net/w2wdx/aq > <http://web.archive.org/web/20080727031555/http://www.qsl.net/w2wdx/aq> > > > > > > uaria/d> > > > iyco2.html > > > > > > If the link breaks, go to http://www.archive.org > <http://www.archive.org> > > <http://www.archive.org <http://www.archive.org>> > > > <http://www.archive.org <http://www.archive.org> > <http://www.archive.org <http://www.archive.org>>> and in the top > > middle of the page, you'll see > > > the Internet Wayback Machine section. Just copy/paste this link into > > > the search field www.qsl.net/w2wdx/aquaria/diyco2.html > > > (<actual link no longer works) > > > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>> > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>>> > > (Links to any articles referenced in > > > above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under > > > Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On Behalf Of Amber Berglund > > > Sent: Tuesday, November 24, 2009 10:47 PM > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > Subject: [AquaticLife] Home made CO2 system > > > > > > So I'm getting the hubby to make me a few home made CO2 systems for > > > my fish tanks to try out. It's based on the design on this site: > > > https://www.netpets.org/fish/reference/freshref/co2.html > <https://www.netpets.org/fish/reference/freshref/co2.html> > > <https://www.netpets.org/fish/reference/freshref/co2.html > <https://www.netpets.org/fish/reference/freshref/co2.html>> > > > <https://www.netpets.org/fish/reference/freshref/co2.html > <https://www.netpets.org/fish/reference/freshref/co2.html> > > <https://www.netpets.org/fish/reference/freshref/co2.html > <https://www.netpets.org/fish/reference/freshref/co2.html>>> > > > > > > My question is this; how do I figure out how many I will need to use > > > on my fish tanks? 55 gallon and 125 gallon tanks. The system says it > > > will generate about 1 bubble per second after fermentation begins > > > (without an airstone), will it generate more bubbles with an air > > > stone (no air pump)? How many bubbles per second are needed to > > > maintain about 15 ppm? > > > I'm so confused, LOL. > > > > > > Amber > > > > > > ------------------------------------ > > > > > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, > > Thank You. > > > ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , > > > .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT > > > that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the > > > original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: > > > old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , > > > .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. > > > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. > > > > > > If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of > > > unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by clicking on > > > "Edit My Membership" on the home page. > > > > > > Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:aquaticlife-digest%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:aquaticlife-digest%40yahoogroups.com> > > > <mailto:aquaticlife-digest%40yahoogroups.com> to receive the digest, > > > which includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email > > > > > > Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:aquaticlife-nomail%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:aquaticlife-nomail%40yahoogroups.com> > > > <mailto:aquaticlife-nomail%40yahoogroups.com> for the No E-Mail > > > option where you will still be able to read messages on the group > > > and post replies. > > > > > > Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:aquaticlife-normal%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:aquaticlife-normal%40yahoogroups.com> > > > <mailto:aquaticlife-normal%40yahoogroups.com> to receive individual > > > e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > > > > > ------------------------------------ > > > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, > Thank You. > > ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , > > .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT > > that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the > > original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: > > old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , > > .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. > > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. > > > > If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of unsubscribing, > > you can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My > > Membership" on the home page. > > > > Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:aquaticlife-digest%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:aquaticlife-digest%40yahoogroups.com> to receive the digest, > > which includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email > > > > Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:aquaticlife-nomail%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:aquaticlife-nomail%40yahoogroups.com> for the No E-Mail option > > where you will still be able to read messages on the group and post > > replies. > > > > Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:aquaticlife-normal%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:aquaticlife-normal%40yahoogroups.com> to receive individual > > e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > ------------------------------------ > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. > ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> > PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to > the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the > SUBJECT > LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- > <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. > > If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of unsubscribing, you > can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the > home page. > > Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:aquaticlife-digest%40yahoogroups.com> to receive the digest, which > includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email > > Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:aquaticlife-nomail%40yahoogroups.com> for the No E-Mail option > where > you will still be able to read messages on the group and post replies. > > Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:aquaticlife-normal%40yahoogroups.com> to receive individual > e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 44741	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 11/25/2009
Subject: Re: Home made CO2 system

I have a large garbage can full of crushed coral, I think I'll be okay for a few months at least ;) LOL. Thanks though, good to know. Amber Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > > Something else I just thought about and also read about on Chuck's CO2 > page > is that you will have to keep a closer eye on your crushed coral since the > addition of CO2 will make the water more acidic and cause the crushed > coral > to dissolve faster. Here's the snip from Chuck's page about this issue... > http://www.csd.net/~cgadd/aqua/art_plant_co2chart.htm > <http://www.csd.net/%7Ecgadd/aqua/art_plant_co2chart.htm> > > "There is one case I've seen where the addition of CO2 resulted in an > increase in KH. This can happen when you have something in the tank that > dissolves carbonate into the water. Seashells, crushed coral, and many > gravels and rocks will do this. With the addition of CO2, the water turns > more acidic, which will increase the dissolving of the minerals. It > appears > that increasing CO2 raises the KH, which isn't really the case. The > dissolving minerals raise the KH, and the increase in KH results in an > increase in pH. In a system using a pH probe and controller to > regulate CO2 > levels, this can have fatal consequences, since the pH controller will > keep > trying to lower the pH, but as more CO2 is dissolved, it lowers the pH, > which raises the KH, which raises the pH. So you now have more CO2, > but the > same pH. So the controller adds even MORE CO2. And it will keep going. So > it's important to know your KH whenever using pH to judge CO2 levels." > (END SNIP) > > Since you will not be using a pH controller, you shouldn't have any > kind of > catastrophic issues but you may find your crushed coral dissolving at a > faster rate. This is actually needed since the plants should be growing > faster anyhow and will be using up more carbonates. I just do not want you > to run out of crushed coral in your tanks where you use it to buffer > up your > low pH water. > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right > side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On > Behalf Of Amber Berglund > Sent: Wednesday, November 25, 2009 1:06 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Home made CO2 system > > I'm getting one of these powerheads specifically: > http://www.marinedepot.com/Hydor_Koralia_Circulation_Pump_Powerhead_UL_Fixed > <http://www.marinedepot.com/Hydor_Koralia_Circulation_Pump_Powerhead_UL_Fixed> > _Flow_Aquarium_Powerheads-Hydor_USA-HD19101-FIPHFF-vi.html > The intake is right behind the fan so you can't just hook a hose up to > it on > the outtake, it's like a mini fan under water. Perhaps I could just > get some > sort of tube (like an old gravel vac tube) that will fit over it, I will > have to see how big they are when they arrive (they should be here next > week). Until then I'm not sure if I will be able to set up any of > these DIY > CO2 systems in any of my tanks except the 55 upstairs, as I already have a > powerhead handy in that one that I can move for now. Will have to get the > hubby to look over the 2 types and see if he can make something to > work with > my powerheads. > > Amber > > Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > > > > You can still use the magnetic kind. Will it have a powerjet type > > attachment or just the wide-angle propeller with a safety shield > over it? > > If it has the powerjet type attachment, just hook a piece of airline > > tubing over the jet output and point that down into the Reactor. The > > "Treatise" > > article also has other ideas using powerheads, etc. > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>> > (Links to any articles referenced in > > above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels > > and also under Archives by Year, Month) > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On Behalf Of Amber Berglund > > Sent: Wednesday, November 25, 2009 11:44 AM > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Home made CO2 system > > > > I like the one that Chuck made for his planted tank, but I don't have > > the same kind of powerhead. I have the magnetic ones on the way (hydor > > koralia), so I'd have to do it different than his design. > > > > Amber > > > > Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > > > > > > There weren't no pictures. Here's the one Chuck has on his Planted > > > Tank pages but it only shows the CO2 Reactor, not the Generator. > > > > > > http://www.csd.net/~cgadd/aqua/diy_reactor.htm > <http://www.csd.net/%7Ecgadd/aqua/diy_reactor.htm> > > <http://www.csd.net/%7Ecgadd/aqua/diy_reactor.htm > <http://www.csd.net/%7Ecgadd/aqua/diy_reactor.htm>> > > > <http://www.csd.net/%7Ecgadd/aqua/diy_reactor.htm > <http://www.csd.net/%7Ecgadd/aqua/diy_reactor.htm> > > <http://www.csd.net/%7Ecgadd/aqua/diy_reactor.htm > <http://www.csd.net/%7Ecgadd/aqua/diy_reactor.htm>>> > > > > > > Another link I had in my favorites disappeared from the net but > > > using the Internet Wayback Machine at http://www.Archive.org, > <http://www.Archive.org,> > > <http://www.Archive.org, <http://www.Archive.org,>> > > > <http://www.Archive.org, <http://www.Archive.org,> > <http://www.Archive.org, <http://www.Archive.org,>>> here is the > > archived page... which has even > > > prettier pictures... including a Reactor similar to the one on > > > Chuck's page but Chuck's is more advanced than this one. > > > > > > > > > http://web.archive.org/web/20080727031555/http://www.qsl.net/w2wdx/aqu > <http://web.archive.org/web/20080727031555/http://www.qsl.net/w2wdx/aqu> > > > <http://web.archive.org/web/20080727031555/http://www.qsl.net/w2wdx/aq > <http://web.archive.org/web/20080727031555/http://www.qsl.net/w2wdx/aq> > > u> > > > aria/d > > > > > > <http://web.archive.org/web/20080727031555/http://www.qsl.net/w2wdx/aq > <http://web.archive.org/web/20080727031555/http://www.qsl.net/w2wdx/aq> > > > <http://web.archive.org/web/20080727031555/http://www.qsl.net/w2wdx/aq > <http://web.archive.org/web/20080727031555/http://www.qsl.net/w2wdx/aq> > > > > > > uaria/d> > > > iyco2.html > > > > > > If the link breaks, go to http://www.archive.org > <http://www.archive.org> > > <http://www.archive.org <http://www.archive.org>> > > > <http://www.archive.org <http://www.archive.org> > <http://www.archive.org <http://www.archive.org>>> and in the top > > middle of the page, you'll see > > > the Internet Wayback Machine section. Just copy/paste this link into > > > the search field www.qsl.net/w2wdx/aquaria/diyco2.html > > > (<actual link no longer works) > > > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>> > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>>> > > (Links to any articles referenced in > > > above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under > > > Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On Behalf Of Amber Berglund > > > Sent: Tuesday, November 24, 2009 10:47 PM > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > Subject: [AquaticLife] Home made CO2 system > > > > > > So I'm getting the hubby to make me a few home made CO2 systems for > > > my fish tanks to try out. It's based on the design on this site: > > > https://www.netpets.org/fish/reference/freshref/co2.html > <https://www.netpets.org/fish/reference/freshref/co2.html> > > <https://www.netpets.org/fish/reference/freshref/co2.html > <https://www.netpets.org/fish/reference/freshref/co2.html>> > > > <https://www.netpets.org/fish/reference/freshref/co2.html > <https://www.netpets.org/fish/reference/freshref/co2.html> > > <https://www.netpets.org/fish/reference/freshref/co2.html > <https://www.netpets.org/fish/reference/freshref/co2.html>>> > > > > > > My question is this; how do I figure out how many I will need to use > > > on my fish tanks? 55 gallon and 125 gallon tanks. The system says it > > > will generate about 1 bubble per second after fermentation begins > > > (without an airstone), will it generate more bubbles with an air > > > stone (no air pump)? How many bubbles per second are needed to > > > maintain about 15 ppm? > > > I'm so confused, LOL. > > > > > > Amber > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 44742	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 11/25/2009
Subject: Re: Home made CO2 system/Another version

I worry about using my flourish excel with my shrimp and snails, it says it has trace amounts of copper. I didn't want to use it just to be safe, I'd hate to kill all my snails and shrimp. Any chance you will take pictures of your set up? ;) LOL Amber harry perry wrote: > > > I don't have any pictures, sorry. What I use is a gravel vac tube and > a power head . The tube is directly connected to the power head . Used > a heated drill bit to put a hole through the closed end of the tube > and also the cap of my soda bottle. > > So, what you have is an air hose coming from the CO2 bottle. > It goes through the "burned" hole in the closed end of the vacuum tube > and then a silicon air stone. Regular air stones will dissolve over > time. I stuffed the tube with spun polyester(filter material) and put > a piece of sponge in the bottom of the tube. > > The power head hangs by suction cups (meant for the side of the tank) > from the top glass cover. Shoots water down into the tube.The co2 line > is sealed where it enters the tube and where it enters the soda bottle > with silicon cement. > > The goal is not to have any CO2 bubbles escape. It works fine. > However I got the same excellent plant growth by using Flourish Excel. > More expensive but easier. > > Harry > > --- On Wed, 11/25/09, Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@... > <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com>> wrote: > > From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@... > <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com>> > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Home made CO2 system > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Date: Wednesday, November 25, 2009, 2:11 AM > > > > There weren't no pictures. Here's the one Chuck has on his Planted Tank > > pages but it only shows the CO2 Reactor, not the Generator. > > http://www.csd. net/~cgadd/ aqua/diy_ reactor.htm > > Another link I had in my favorites disappeared from the net but using the > > Internet Wayback Machine at http://www.Archive. org, here is the archived > > page... which has even prettier pictures... including a Reactor similar to > > the one on Chuck's page but Chuck's is more advanced than this one. > > http://web.archive. org/web/20080727 031555/http: //www.qsl. > net/w2wdx/ aquaria/d > > iyco2.html > > If the link breaks, go to http://www.archive. org and in the top middle of > > the page, you'll see the Internet Wayback Machine section. Just copy/paste > > this link into the search field www.qsl.net/ w2wdx/aquaria/ diyco2.html > > (<actual link no longer works) > > Lenny Vasbinder > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com > > (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right > > side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) > > -----Original Message----- > > From: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com [mailto:AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. > com] On > > Behalf Of Amber Berglund > > Sent: Tuesday, November 24, 2009 10:47 PM > > To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com > > Subject: [AquaticLife] Home made CO2 system > > So I'm getting the hubby to make me a few home made CO2 systems for my > fish > > tanks to try out. It's based on the design on this site: > > https://www. netpets.org/ fish/reference/ freshref/ co2.html > > My question is this; how do I figure out how many I will need to use on my > > fish tanks? 55 gallon and 125 gallon tanks. The system says it will > generate > > about 1 bubble per second after fermentation begins (without an airstone), > > will it generate more bubbles with an air stone (no air pump)? How many > > bubbles per second are needed to maintain about 15 ppm? > > I'm so confused, LOL. > > Amber > > ------------ --------- --------- ------ > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. > > ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> > > PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to > > the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the > SUBJECT > > LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- > > <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. > > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. > > If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of unsubscribing, you > > can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the > > home page. > > Or e-mail aquaticlife- digest@yahoogrou ps.com to receive the digest, > which > > includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email > > Or email aquaticlife- nomail@yahoogrou ps.com for the No E-Mail option > where > > you will still be able to read messages on the group and post replies. > > Or email aquaticlife- normal@yahoogrou ps.com to receive individual > > e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 44743	From: harry perry	Date: 11/25/2009
Subject: Harry's DIY CO2 System

Is in the group's file section with an explanation of how it works. Harry [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 44744	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 11/25/2009
Subject: NOAA's Aquarius

NOAA's Aquarius [pdf] http://www.uncw.edu/aquarius/ Off the shore of the Florida Keys sits the Aquarius, the world's only undersea research station. The station is administered by the National Oceanic and Atmospheric Administration (NOAA) and their research and education programs are quite impressive. On their website, visitors should check out the "About Aquarius" area to learn about the daily operations of the laboratory and its operating costs. In the "Mission Info" area, visitors can look over profiles of the aquanauts on duty aboard the Aquarius, read their blog, and ask these intrepid souls questions about their work. Educators should look over the "Lesson Plans", which include activities based around teaching students about buoyancy and pressure. Finally, visitors should look over the "Missions & Project Info". Here they will find information about recently completed projects, including scientific work on coral restoration and the role of sponges in coral-reef ecosystems. >From The Scout Report, Copyright Internet Scout 1994-2009. http://scout.wisc.edu/ \\Steve//

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 44745	From: harry perry	Date: 11/25/2009
Subject: Re: NOAA's Aquarius/Steve

That was interesting. Thank you. Harry --- On Wed, 11/25/09, Steve Szabo <steve@...> wrote: From: Steve Szabo <steve@...> Subject: [AquaticLife] NOAA's Aquarius To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Date: Wednesday, November 25, 2009, 8:54 PM   NOAA's Aquarius [pdf] http://www.uncw. edu/aquarius/ Off the shore of the Florida Keys sits the Aquarius, the world's only undersea research station. The station is administered by the National Oceanic and Atmospheric Administration (NOAA) and their research and education programs are quite impressive. On their website, visitors should check out the "About Aquarius" area to learn about the daily operations of the laboratory and its operating costs. In the "Mission Info" area, visitors can look over profiles of the aquanauts on duty aboard the Aquarius, read their blog, and ask these intrepid souls questions about their work. Educators should look over the "Lesson Plans", which include activities based around teaching students about buoyancy and pressure. Finally, visitors should look over the "Missions & Project Info". Here they will find information about recently completed projects, including scientific work on coral restoration and the role of sponges in coral-reef ecosystems. >From The Scout Report, Copyright Internet Scout 1994-2009. http://scout. wisc.edu/ \\Steve// [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 44746	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 11/25/2009
Subject: Re: Home made CO2 system/Amber

Well I can't afford a full set up and neither can hubby. I was thinking of using bill-me-later on marinedepot.com and ordering a setup kit, but I wouldn't be able to use it for my other 55 gallon tanks (well at least one of them as it is upstairs). I would have to get a splitter and another reactor if I'm going to use the kit on the 55 gallon angel tank (but it's mostly low light plants anyways so it doesn't really need a CO2 setup). Amber harry perry wrote: > > > First off you definitely need a reactor. I think it mentions that in > your article. Just letting a soda bottle bubble through a line is a > waste of time. The CO2 simple bubbles to the top of your tank and > escapes as a gas. > > There are such things as bubble regulators and counters but if your > going to do that then you might as well get a CO2 tank and the valves > and regulators etc. etc. Christmas is coming and it sounds like hubby > has deep pockets. > > For your big tank the DIY method might not be practical. You'll need 5 > of these set ups for your big tank. You won't be able to see the fish > for the air lines. You'll probably need the tank and regulators and > valves. That might be the most cost effective way of doing it. > Flourish Excel will cost a bunch for your big tank. > > Harry > > --- On Tue, 11/24/09, Amber Berglund <arberglund@... > <mailto:arberglund%40gmail.com>> wrote: > > From: Amber Berglund <arberglund@... > <mailto:arberglund%40gmail.com>> > Subject: [AquaticLife] Home made CO2 system > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Date: Tuesday, November 24, 2009, 11:47 PM > > > > So I'm getting the hubby to make me a few home made CO2 systems for my > > fish tanks to try out. It's based on the design on this site: > > https://www. netpets.org/ fish/reference/ freshref/ co2.html > > My question is this; how do I figure out how many I will need to use on > > my fish tanks? 55 gallon and 125 gallon tanks. The system says it will > > generate about 1 bubble per second after fermentation begins (without an > > airstone), will it generate more bubbles with an air stone (no air > > pump)? How many bubbles per second are needed to maintain about 15 ppm? > > I'm so confused, LOL. > > Amber > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 44747	From: harry perry	Date: 11/25/2009
Subject: Re: Home made CO2 system/Amber/again

Per your request. Pictures of my system are in the file section of our group Harry --- On Wed, 11/25/09, Amber Berglund <arberglund@...> wrote: From: Amber Berglund <arberglund@...> Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Home made CO2 system/Amber To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Date: Wednesday, November 25, 2009, 9:57 PM   Well I can't afford a full set up and neither can hubby. I was thinking of using bill-me-later on marinedepot. com and ordering a setup kit, but I wouldn't be able to use it for my other 55 gallon tanks (well at least one of them as it is upstairs). I would have to get a splitter and another reactor if I'm going to use the kit on the 55 gallon angel tank (but it's mostly low light plants anyways so it doesn't really need a CO2 setup). Amber harry perry wrote: > > > First off you definitely need a reactor. I think it mentions that in > your article. Just letting a soda bottle bubble through a line is a > waste of time. The CO2 simple bubbles to the top of your tank and > escapes as a gas. > > There are such things as bubble regulators and counters but if your > going to do that then you might as well get a CO2 tank and the valves > and regulators etc. etc. Christmas is coming and it sounds like hubby > has deep pockets. > > For your big tank the DIY method might not be practical. You'll need 5 > of these set ups for your big tank. You won't be able to see the fish > for the air lines. You'll probably need the tank and regulators and > valves. That might be the most cost effective way of doing it. > Flourish Excel will cost a bunch for your big tank. > > Harry > > --- On Tue, 11/24/09, Amber Berglund <arberglund@gmail. com > <mailto:arberglund% 40gmail.com> > wrote: > > From: Amber Berglund <arberglund@gmail. com > <mailto:arberglund% 40gmail.com> > > Subject: [AquaticLife] Home made CO2 system > To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com <mailto:AquaticLife %40yahoogroups. com> > Date: Tuesday, November 24, 2009, 11:47 PM > > > > So I'm getting the hubby to make me a few home made CO2 systems for my > > fish tanks to try out. It's based on the design on this site: > > https://www. netpets.org/ fish/reference/ freshref/ co2.html > > My question is this; how do I figure out how many I will need to use on > > my fish tanks? 55 gallon and 125 gallon tanks. The system says it will > > generate about 1 bubble per second after fermentation begins (without an > > airstone), will it generate more bubbles with an air stone (no air > > pump)? How many bubbles per second are needed to maintain about 15 ppm? > > I'm so confused, LOL. > > Amber > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 44748	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 11/25/2009
Subject: Re: Home made CO2 system

I'm not sure if they could be used with a DIY Reactor... at least not the ones shown on the sites I've given you. I'm sure they could be used for dispersing the CO2 saturated water coming out of the Reactor but when dosing a tank with CO2, you usually want as little surface agitation as possible so you would want this type of powerhead down near the bottom and as the CO2 saturated water comes out of the Reactor, this powerhead would spread the CO2 saturate water across the bottom area of the tank. I have read other DIY articles in the past where folks would plumb the CO2 saturated water into their canister filter return line, allowing the returning water from the canister filter to do this same task. While Marine Depot is a good site, it is geared more towards salt water tanks, thus the name "Marine" Depot but they do have a lot of products that are dual use and/or geared towards freshwater aquariums. The product's short description even includes this sentence... "This pump`s water flow is at the same time powerful and delicate making it ideal for marine and reef tanks." Even with 20% off, the price you paid for this type of powerhead was more than a standard powerhead such as these which cost as little as $11.49 and up... http://www.marinedepot.com/Maxi_Jet_Powerhead_Fixed_Flow_Aquarium_Powerheads -Instant_Ocean-AS1111-FIPHFF-vi.html which also has an input line for an airline or CO2 Generator, although this type of CO2 dispersal is still not as good as having a Reactor. Here is another standard type powerhead... http://www.marinedepot.com/Taam_Rio_(Rio%2b)_Powerhead_Pump_Fixed_Flow_Aquar ium_Powerheads-TAAM-TA3111-FIPHFF-vi.html Either of these powerheads have the discharge that is more of a "jet" type discharge but tubing can be fit over these so the water can be used for RUGF filtration, CO2 Reactor water dispersal, etc. You might want to check out some of the DIY forums in the dedicate plant forums and post the info on your powerheads and see what other CO2 DIY'ers might have tried with them. Most of the DIY articles that I've read over the years used the old style "jet" powerheads instead of these newer designed "fan" or "prop" type powerheads. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Amber Berglund Sent: Wednesday, November 25, 2009 4:40 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Home made CO2 system I don't have any "normal" powerheads, these were on sale 20% off so I got them instead. Any advice on how to use them instead of buying another powerhead? Amber Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > > This type of "Circulation Pump" powerhead is more for circulation > only, whereas a powerhead can be used for circulation but also used > for powering UGF filters, ReverseUGF filters, etc.... and of course, > the DIY CO2 Reactor. > Maybe you can use this new "Circulation Pump" for it's intended > purpose and take one of your older *normal* powerheads and use it for > the CO2 Reactor. > Normal powerheads are also much less expensive than these newer > oscillating fan type circulation pumps... well maybe yours doesn't > oscillate but others of this same design do oscillate as well. > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> (Links to any articles referenced in > above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels > and also under Archives by Year, Month) > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On Behalf Of Amber Berglund > Sent: Wednesday, November 25, 2009 1:06 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Home made CO2 system > > I'm getting one of these powerheads specifically: > http://www.marinedepot.com/Hydor_Koralia_Circulation_Pump_Powerhead_UL_Fixed > <http://www.marinedepot.com/Hydor_Koralia_Circulation_Pump_Powerhead_UL_Fixe d_Flow_Aquarium_Powerheads-Hydor_USA-HD19101-FIPHFF-vi.html > The intake is right behind the fan so you can't just hook a hose up to > it on the outtake, it's like a mini fan under water. Perhaps I could > just get some sort of tube (like an old gravel vac tube) that will fit > over it, I will have to see how big they are when they arrive (they > should be here next week). Until then I'm not sure if I will be able > to set up any of these DIY > CO2 systems in any of my tanks except the 55 upstairs, as I already > have a powerhead handy in that one that I can move for now. Will have > to get the hubby to look over the 2 types and see if he can make > something to work with my powerheads. > > Amber > > Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > > > > You can still use the magnetic kind. Will it have a powerjet type > > attachment or just the wide-angle propeller with a safety shield > over it? > > If it has the powerjet type attachment, just hook a piece of airline > > tubing over the jet output and point that down into the Reactor. The > > "Treatise" > > article also has other ideas using powerheads, etc. > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>> > (Links to any articles referenced in > > above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under > > Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On Behalf Of Amber Berglund > > Sent: Wednesday, November 25, 2009 11:44 AM > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Home made CO2 system > > > > I like the one that Chuck made for his planted tank, but I don't > > have the same kind of powerhead. I have the magnetic ones on the way > > (hydor koralia), so I'd have to do it different than his design. > > > > Amber > > > > Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > > > > > > There weren't no pictures. Here's the one Chuck has on his Planted > > > Tank pages but it only shows the CO2 Reactor, not the Generator. > > > > > > http://www.csd.net/~cgadd/aqua/diy_reactor.htm > <http://www.csd.net/%7Ecgadd/aqua/diy_reactor.htm> > > <http://www.csd.net/%7Ecgadd/aqua/diy_reactor.htm > <http://www.csd.net/%7Ecgadd/aqua/diy_reactor.htm>> > > > <http://www.csd.net/%7Ecgadd/aqua/diy_reactor.htm > <http://www.csd.net/%7Ecgadd/aqua/diy_reactor.htm> > > <http://www.csd.net/%7Ecgadd/aqua/diy_reactor.htm > <http://www.csd.net/%7Ecgadd/aqua/diy_reactor.htm>>> > > > > > > Another link I had in my favorites disappeared from the net but > > > using the Internet Wayback Machine at http://www.Archive.org, > <http://www.Archive.org,> > > <http://www.Archive.org, <http://www.Archive.org,>> > > > <http://www.Archive.org, <http://www.Archive.org,> > <http://www.Archive.org, <http://www.Archive.org,>>> here is the > > archived page... which has even > > > prettier pictures... including a Reactor similar to the one on > > > Chuck's page but Chuck's is more advanced than this one. > > > > > > > > > http://web.archive.org/web/20080727031555/http://www.qsl.net/w2wdx/aqu > <http://web.archive.org/web/20080727031555/http://www.qsl.net/w2wdx/aq > u> > > > <http://web.archive.org/web/20080727031555/http://www.qsl.net/w2wdx/aq > <http://web.archive.org/web/20080727031555/http://www.qsl.net/w2wdx/aq > > > > u> > > > aria/d > > > > > > <http://web.archive.org/web/20080727031555/http://www.qsl.net/w2wdx/aq > <http://web.archive.org/web/20080727031555/http://www.qsl.net/w2wdx/aq > > > > > <http://web.archive.org/web/20080727031555/http://www.qsl.net/w2wdx/aq > <http://web.archive.org/web/20080727031555/http://www.qsl.net/w2wdx/aq > > > > > > > > uaria/d> > > > iyco2.html > > > > > > If the link breaks, go to http://www.archive.org > <http://www.archive.org> > > <http://www.archive.org <http://www.archive.org>> > > > <http://www.archive.org <http://www.archive.org> > <http://www.archive.org <http://www.archive.org>>> and in the top > > middle of the page, you'll see > > > the Internet Wayback Machine section. Just copy/paste this link > > > into the search field www.qsl.net/w2wdx/aquaria/diyco2.html > > > (<actual link no longer works) > > > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>> > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>>> > > (Links to any articles referenced in > > > above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under > > > Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On Behalf Of Amber > > > Berglund > > > Sent: Tuesday, November 24, 2009 10:47 PM > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > Subject: [AquaticLife] Home made CO2 system > > > > > > So I'm getting the hubby to make me a few home made CO2 systems > > > for my fish tanks to try out. It's based on the design on this site: > > > https://www.netpets.org/fish/reference/freshref/co2.html > <https://www.netpets.org/fish/reference/freshref/co2.html> > > <https://www.netpets.org/fish/reference/freshref/co2.html > <https://www.netpets.org/fish/reference/freshref/co2.html>> > > > <https://www.netpets.org/fish/reference/freshref/co2.html > <https://www.netpets.org/fish/reference/freshref/co2.html> > > <https://www.netpets.org/fish/reference/freshref/co2.html > <https://www.netpets.org/fish/reference/freshref/co2.html>>> > > > > > > My question is this; how do I figure out how many I will need to > > > use on my fish tanks? 55 gallon and 125 gallon tanks. The system > > > says it will generate about 1 bubble per second after fermentation > > > begins (without an airstone), will it generate more bubbles with > > > an air stone (no air pump)? How many bubbles per second are needed > > > to maintain about 15 ppm? > > > I'm so confused, LOL. > > > > > > Amber > > > > > > ------------------------------------ > > > > > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, > > Thank You. > > > ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , > > > .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT > > > that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the > > > original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: > > > old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , > > > .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. > > > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. > > > > > > If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of > > > unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by clicking on > > > "Edit My Membership" on the home page. > > > > > > Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:aquaticlife-digest%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:aquaticlife-digest%40yahoogroups.com> > > > <mailto:aquaticlife-digest%40yahoogroups.com> to receive the > > > digest, which includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email > > > > > > Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:aquaticlife-nomail%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:aquaticlife-nomail%40yahoogroups.com> > > > <mailto:aquaticlife-nomail%40yahoogroups.com> for the No E-Mail > > > option where you will still be able to read messages on the group > > > and post replies. > > > > > > Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:aquaticlife-normal%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:aquaticlife-normal%40yahoogroups.com> > > > <mailto:aquaticlife-normal%40yahoogroups.com> to receive > > > individual e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > > > > > ------------------------------------ > > > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, > Thank You. > > ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , > > .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT > > that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the > > original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: > > old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , > > .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. > > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. > > > > If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of > > unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by clicking on > > "Edit My Membership" on the home page. > > > > Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:aquaticlife-digest%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:aquaticlife-digest%40yahoogroups.com> to receive the digest, > > which includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email > > > > Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:aquaticlife-nomail%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:aquaticlife-nomail%40yahoogroups.com> for the No E-Mail > > option where you will still be able to read messages on the group > > and post replies. > > > > Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:aquaticlife-normal%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:aquaticlife-normal%40yahoogroups.com> to receive individual > > e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > ------------------------------------ > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. > ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , > .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT > that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the > original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: > old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , > .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. > > If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of unsubscribing, > you can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My > Membership" on the home page. > > Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:aquaticlife-digest%40yahoogroups.com> to receive the digest, > which includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email > > Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:aquaticlife-nomail%40yahoogroups.com> for the No E-Mail option > where you will still be able to read messages on the group and post > replies. > > Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:aquaticlife-normal%40yahoogroups.com> to receive individual > e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links > > ------------------------------------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the home page. Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com to receive the digest, which includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com for the No E-Mail option where you will still be able to read messages on the group and post replies. Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com to receive individual e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 44749	From: sevenspringss@wmconnect.com	Date: 11/26/2009
Subject: Re: Holiday Greetings

HAPPY THANKSGIVING [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 44750	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 11/26/2009
Subject: Re: Holiday Greetings

Gobble, Gobble! (That's turkey talk for "Happy Thanksgiving to y'all too!") Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of sevenspringss@... Sent: Thursday, November 26, 2009 7:02 AM To: aquaticlife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Holiday Greetings HAPPY THANKSGIVING

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 44751	From: pam andress	Date: 11/26/2009
Subject: Re: Holiday Greetings

Gobble gobble to you all too! lol Pam Gobble, Gobble! (That's turkey talk for "Happy Thanksgiving to y'all too!") Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) HAPPY THANKSGIVING [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 44752	From: biG poppa	Date: 11/26/2009
Subject: Re: Holiday Greetings

Happy Thanksgiving and to all a good nite,,,,,,,,,,,!!! --- On Thu, 11/26/09, pam andress <pamandress23@...> wrote: From: pam andress <pamandress23@...> Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: Holiday Greetings To: aquaticlife@yahoogroups.com Date: Thursday, November 26, 2009, 11:41 AM   Gobble gobble to you all too! lol Pam Gobble, Gobble! (That's turkey talk for "Happy Thanksgiving to y'all too!") Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) HAPPY THANKSGIVING [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 44753	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 11/26/2009
Subject: Re: Holiday Greetings

Buuurrrrrpppppp!!! Ahhh.. now I can have a good nite as I lean back on the couch and strike an Al Bundy pose. :-P Hope everybody had a nice big turkey dinner! Now... how many ways can one make turkey sandwiches, lunches and dinners out of all the leftovers? Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of biG poppa Sent: Thursday, November 26, 2009 11:23 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: Holiday Greetings Happy Thanksgiving and to all a good nite,,,,,,,,,,,!!! --- On Thu, 11/26/09, pam andress <pamandress23@...> wrote: From: pam andress <pamandress23@...> Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: Holiday Greetings To: aquaticlife@yahoogroups.com Date: Thursday, November 26, 2009, 11:41 AM Gobble gobble to you all too! lol Pam Lenny said: Gobble, Gobble! (That's turkey talk for "Happy Thanksgiving to y'all too!") Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) HAPPY THANKSGIVING

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 44754	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 11/26/2009
Subject: Re: Holiday Greetings

I may sound weird but my favorite left over sandwich from Thanksgiving is turkey, cranberry sauce (mayo on the bread too), and mashed potatoes. I get so many weird looks when I'm eating it but oh my it's tasty! :) LOL. Amber Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > > Buuurrrrrpppppp!!! Ahhh.. now I can have a good nite as I lean back on the > couch and strike an Al Bundy pose. :-P > > Hope everybody had a nice big turkey dinner! > > Now... how many ways can one make turkey sandwiches, lunches and > dinners out > of all the leftovers? > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right > side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) > > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On > Behalf Of biG poppa > Sent: Thursday, November 26, 2009 11:23 AM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: Holiday Greetings > > Happy Thanksgiving and to all a good nite,,,,,,,,,,,!!! > > --- On Thu, 11/26/09, pam andress <pamandress23@... > <mailto:pamandress23%40hotmail.com>> wrote: > > From: pam andress <pamandress23@... > <mailto:pamandress23%40hotmail.com>> > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: Holiday Greetings > To: aquaticlife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:aquaticlife%40yahoogroups.com> > Date: Thursday, November 26, 2009, 11:41 AM > > Gobble gobble to you all too! lol > > Pam > > Lenny said: > > Gobble, Gobble! > > (That's turkey talk for "Happy Thanksgiving to y'all too!") > > Lenny Vasbinder > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com > > (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right > > side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) > > HAPPY THANKSGIVING > > > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 44755	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 11/26/2009
Subject: Pearling on my plants

So I decided to add some flourish excel to one of my tanks to see if it affects my snails. I already have pearling from my plants after just adding it last night after a PWC. No adverse affects to the snails so far, waiting to see. I know the other flourish products have copper in it, but the flourish excel doesn't say what's in it, so I was worried about putting it in my shrimp/snail tank. Amber

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 44756	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 11/26/2009
Subject: Re: Holiday Greetings

One of mine is similar... except for the mashed potatoes. Bread w/mayo, turkey, cranberry sauce and Mom's oyster dressing. MMMMMMM... getting hungry again! But if it's any consolation, we do have some infamous places down here that make New Awlins Style French Fry Po-Boys, so I have eaten "potatoes" on a sandwich before... just not mashed. ;-) The top link below is about the French Fry Po-Boy at Parasol's, which is also a GREAT place to spend St. Patrick's Day down here as it turns into a HUGE, green beer fueled, block party (2nd link below for photos). http://www.nola.com/dining-guide/index.ssf/2009/04/parasols.html http://photos.nola.com/nolaphotos/2009/03/parasols_st_pats_block_party_2.htm l Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Amber Berglund Sent: Thursday, November 26, 2009 4:22 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: Holiday Greetings I may sound weird but my favorite left over sandwich from Thanksgiving is turkey, cranberry sauce (mayo on the bread too), and mashed potatoes. I get so many weird looks when I'm eating it but oh my it's tasty! :) LOL. Amber Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > > Buuurrrrrpppppp!!! Ahhh.. now I can have a good nite as I lean back on > the couch and strike an Al Bundy pose. :-P > > Hope everybody had a nice big turkey dinner! > > Now... how many ways can one make turkey sandwiches, lunches and > dinners out of all the leftovers? > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> (Links to any articles referenced in > above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels > and also under Archives by Year, Month) > > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On Behalf Of biG poppa > Sent: Thursday, November 26, 2009 11:23 AM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: Holiday Greetings > > Happy Thanksgiving and to all a good nite,,,,,,,,,,,!!! > > --- On Thu, 11/26/09, pam andress <pamandress23@... > <mailto:pamandress23%40hotmail.com>> wrote: > > From: pam andress <pamandress23@... > <mailto:pamandress23%40hotmail.com>> > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: Holiday Greetings > To: aquaticlife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:aquaticlife%40yahoogroups.com> > Date: Thursday, November 26, 2009, 11:41 AM > > Gobble gobble to you all too! lol > > Pam > > Lenny said: > > Gobble, Gobble! > > (That's turkey talk for "Happy Thanksgiving to y'all too!") > > Lenny Vasbinder > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com > > (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the > right > > side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, > Month) > > HAPPY THANKSGIVING

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 44757	From: bill 1433	Date: 11/26/2009
Subject: Re: Holiday Greetings

Len,   Only one!  Get yourself ye ole food processor out, chop it all up and make Turkey Salad!   Great for quick sandwich's and no fuss!  AND....................... goes great with a cold one watching the game!   Bill --- On Thu, 11/26/09, Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@...> wrote: From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@...> Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: Holiday Greetings To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Date: Thursday, November 26, 2009, 4:57 PM Buuurrrrrpppppp!!!   Ahhh.. now I can have a good nite as I lean back on the couch and strike an Al Bundy pose. :-P Hope everybody had a nice big turkey dinner! Now... how many ways can one make turkey sandwiches, lunches and dinners out of all the leftovers? Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of biG poppa Sent: Thursday, November 26, 2009 11:23 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: Holiday Greetings Happy Thanksgiving and to all a good nite,,,,,,,,,,,!!! --- On Thu, 11/26/09, pam andress <pamandress23@...> wrote: From: pam andress <pamandress23@...> Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: Holiday Greetings To: aquaticlife@yahoogroups.com Date: Thursday, November 26, 2009, 11:41 AM Gobble gobble to you all too! lol Pam Lenny said: Gobble, Gobble! (That's turkey talk for "Happy Thanksgiving to y'all too!") Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) HAPPY THANKSGIVING                           ------------------------------------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the home page.  Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com to receive the digest, which includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com for the No E-Mail option where you will still be able to read messages on the group and post replies. Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com to receive individual e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 44758	From: Lainey Alexander	Date: 11/26/2009
Subject: Catching Siamese Algae Eaters continued

OK, I think I figured out how to get the SAEs to eat out of the net so I can catch them - but I'm not sure I can do it all in one day. I may only get a couple on the first day and the rest on the second. Then I have to drive them two hours to the lavish store that is taking them for me. My question is: I don't have a spare aquarium to put them into as I catch each one over a one or two day period. I can buy one, but would rather not have to. Would it be safe and humane for them if they spent possibly 24 hours in a 7 gallon bucket of clean tank water with a heater and a clip on light and some hornwort? They could drive to the store in the same bucket - would it be OK to drive them in the bucket with a cover on it? I won't do it this way if you all think it could be too stressful for them. They are getting big - around three inches now and beefy in girth. I don't want to keep them in my 37 g any longer - I don't think they are secreting or receiving the stress hormones that stunt their growth! Thanks for advice... Lainey http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 44759	From: Laurie Murphy	Date: 11/26/2009
Subject: Re: Holiday Greetings

My daughter just had her meal by putting turkey, mashed potatoes and peas on a bun. She said it was good. Laurie -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Amber Berglund Sent: Thursday, November 26, 2009 2:22 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: Holiday Greetings I may sound weird but my favorite left over sandwich from Thanksgiving is turkey, cranberry sauce (mayo on the bread too), and mashed potatoes. I get so many weird looks when I'm eating it but oh my it's tasty! :) LOL. Amber Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > > Buuurrrrrpppppp!!! Ahhh.. now I can have a good nite as I lean back on the > couch and strike an Al Bundy pose. :-P > > Hope everybody had a nice big turkey dinner! > > Now... how many ways can one make turkey sandwiches, lunches and > dinners out > of all the leftovers? > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right > side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) > > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On > Behalf Of biG poppa > Sent: Thursday, November 26, 2009 11:23 AM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: Holiday Greetings > > Happy Thanksgiving and to all a good nite,,,,,,,,,,,!!! > > --- On Thu, 11/26/09, pam andress <pamandress23@... > <mailto:pamandress23%40hotmail.com>> wrote: > > From: pam andress <pamandress23@... > <mailto:pamandress23%40hotmail.com>> > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: Holiday Greetings > To: aquaticlife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:aquaticlife%40yahoogroups.com> > Date: Thursday, November 26, 2009, 11:41 AM > > Gobble gobble to you all too! lol > > Pam > > Lenny said: > > Gobble, Gobble! > > (That's turkey talk for "Happy Thanksgiving to y'all too!") > > Lenny Vasbinder > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com > > (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right > > side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) > > HAPPY THANKSGIVING > > > > ------------------------------------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the home page. Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com to receive the digest, which includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com for the No E-Mail option where you will still be able to read messages on the group and post replies. Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com to receive individual e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 44760	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 11/26/2009
Subject: Re: Holiday Greetings

Ahhh... haven't done that in years... but as kids, I would almost always mix my veggies, either green peas, corn, etc., in with my mashed potatoes & gravy, to help mask the taste of the veggies. Fortunately, when we had mixed veggies, Mom wouldn't make me eat them dang lima beans... I hated them things. LOL My parents weren't big on cauliflower, broccoli or spinach so I wasn't forced to eat them very often either but then when Green Giant came out with the frozen boil-in-bag cauliflower or broccoli in cheese sauce, my parents liked that so us kids had to start eating that too but it wasn't too bad covered in cheese sauce. LOL I think I'll have to make me a "Leftover Sandwich" for tomorrow's lunch but I didn't make any mashed potatoes for Turkey-day dinner so I'll have to substitute stuffing instead. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Laurie Murphy Sent: Thursday, November 26, 2009 6:50 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: Holiday Greetings My daughter just had her meal by putting turkey, mashed potatoes and peas on a bun. She said it was good. Laurie -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Amber Berglund Sent: Thursday, November 26, 2009 2:22 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: Holiday Greetings I may sound weird but my favorite left over sandwich from Thanksgiving is turkey, cranberry sauce (mayo on the bread too), and mashed potatoes. I get so many weird looks when I'm eating it but oh my it's tasty! :) LOL. Amber Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > > Buuurrrrrpppppp!!! Ahhh.. now I can have a good nite as I lean back on > the couch and strike an Al Bundy pose. :-P > > Hope everybody had a nice big turkey dinner! > > Now... how many ways can one make turkey sandwiches, lunches and > dinners out of all the leftovers? > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> (Links to any articles referenced in > above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels > and also under Archives by Year, Month) > > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On Behalf Of biG poppa > Sent: Thursday, November 26, 2009 11:23 AM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: Holiday Greetings > > Happy Thanksgiving and to all a good nite,,,,,,,,,,,!!! > > --- On Thu, 11/26/09, pam andress <pamandress23@... > <mailto:pamandress23%40hotmail.com>> wrote: > > From: pam andress <pamandress23@... > <mailto:pamandress23%40hotmail.com>> > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: Holiday Greetings > To: aquaticlife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:aquaticlife%40yahoogroups.com> > Date: Thursday, November 26, 2009, 11:41 AM > > Gobble gobble to you all too! lol > > Pam > > Lenny said: > > Gobble, Gobble! > > (That's turkey talk for "Happy Thanksgiving to y'all too!") > > Lenny Vasbinder > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com > > (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the > right > > side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, > Month) > > HAPPY THANKSGIVING

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 44761	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 11/26/2009
Subject: Re: Catching Siamese Algae Eaters continued

Do you have a spare air stone or sponge filter or other filter like an HOB that you could run in the bucket? That would make things better. If not, then every hour or two, just dip a cup into the bucket and pour the water back in so that it helps to circulate the water a little and also provide surface agitation to help keep the water oxygenated and allow for CO2 and other bad gases to outgas from the bucket. While it's best to NOT have to keep them in a bucket for so long, I (and all of my fish in three tanks) survived 14 days after Katrina, with no power, by doing this on all of my tanks every hour or two. I was also fortunate enough to have a UPS from one of my computer systems that I could run the filters for a few minutes every hour or two also to keep things cycled but I think the fish would have made it without the filters and just the water agitation provided by my manual water circulation/agitation. A friend would drive by every day or so and recharge my UPS and laptop in his car with an inverter so I could use my laptop and cell phone to access the net to find out what was going on in the rest of the world, update family/friends with what was going on down here. Of course, do extra agitation before you go to sleep and do it again first thing when you wake up... and hope for the best. If you can think of a better way of starting in the morning and getting all the fish into the bucket on the same day and then bringing the bucket to the store the same day, that would be best. Remember that the hungrier they are, the more willing they would be to swim into the food baited net... so don't feed them for a day or two prior to starting this task. This would also mean less fish waste in the holding bucket if it does take you a full 24 hours to catch them all. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Lainey Alexander Sent: Thursday, November 26, 2009 10:32 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Catching Siamese Algae Eaters continued OK, I think I figured out how to get the SAEs to eat out of the net so I can catch them - but I'm not sure I can do it all in one day. I may only get a couple on the first day and the rest on the second. Then I have to drive them two hours to the lavish store that is taking them for me. My question is: I don't have a spare aquarium to put them into as I catch each one over a one or two day period. I can buy one, but would rather not have to. Would it be safe and humane for them if they spent possibly 24 hours in a 7 gallon bucket of clean tank water with a heater and a clip on light and some hornwort? They could drive to the store in the same bucket - would it be OK to drive them in the bucket with a cover on it? I won't do it this way if you all think it could be too stressful for them. They are getting big - around three inches now and beefy in girth. I don't want to keep them in my 37 g any longer - I don't think they are secreting or receiving the stress hormones that stunt their growth! Thanks for advice... Lainey http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] ------------------------------------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. 74/`7.88.><((((:>.74/`7.88.74/`7.8><((((:> 8.74/`7.8. , .74/`7..><((((:> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <:((((><.74/`7.88.74/`7.8<:((((><8.74/`7.8. , .74/`7..<:((((><74/`7.88. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the home page. Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com to receive the digest, which includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com for the No E-Mail option where you will still be able to read messages on the group and post replies. Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com to receive individual e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 44762	From: Lainey Alexander	Date: 11/26/2009
Subject: Re: Catching Siamese Algae Eaters continued

Thanks, Lenny - I do have a spare air pump and airstone. Should I run that the whole time they are in the bucket? I guess the very best plan would be to purchase a ten g tank for all of this, but it seems so wasteful, and then I have (another) ten g tank! I have not had luck catching all of them at the same time even with creating hunger. I seem only to be able to catch one or two in a two or three hour period. Maybe I'm not getting them hungry enough:( Lainey http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com On Nov 27, 2009, at 1:24 AM, Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > Do you have a spare air stone or sponge filter or other filter like > an HOB > that you could run in the bucket? That would make things better. If > not, > then every hour or two, just dip a cup into the bucket and pour the > water > back in so that it helps to circulate the water a little and also > provide > surface agitation to help keep the water oxygenated and allow for > CO2 and > other bad gases to outgas from the bucket. > > While it's best to NOT have to keep them in a bucket for so long, I > (and all > of my fish in three tanks) survived 14 days after Katrina, with no > power, by > doing this on all of my tanks every hour or two. > > I was also fortunate enough to have a UPS from one of my computer > systems > that I could run the filters for a few minutes every hour or two > also to > keep things cycled but I think the fish would have made it without the > filters and just the water agitation provided by my manual water > circulation/agitation. A friend would drive by every day or so and > recharge > my UPS and laptop in his car with an inverter so I could use my > laptop and > cell phone to access the net to find out what was going on in the > rest of > the world, update family/friends with what was going on down here. > > Of course, do extra agitation before you go to sleep and do it > again first > thing when you wake up... and hope for the best. > > If you can think of a better way of starting in the morning and > getting all > the fish into the bucket on the same day and then bringing the > bucket to the > store the same day, that would be best. > > Remember that the hungrier they are, the more willing they would be > to swim > into the food baited net... so don't feed them for a day or two > prior to > starting this task. This would also mean less fish waste in the > holding > bucket if it does take you a full 24 hours to catch them all. > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the > right > side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, > Month) > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On > Behalf Of Lainey Alexander > Sent: Thursday, November 26, 2009 10:32 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Subject: [AquaticLife] Catching Siamese Algae Eaters continued > > OK, I think I figured out how to get the SAEs to eat out of the net > so I can > catch them - but I'm not sure I can do it all in one day. I may > only get a > couple on the first day and the rest on the second. > Then I have to drive them two hours to the lavish store that is > taking them > for me. > > My question is: I don't have a spare aquarium to put them into as I > catch > each one over a one or two day period. I can buy one, but would > rather not > have to. Would it be safe and humane for them if they spent > possibly 24 > hours in a 7 gallon bucket of clean tank water with a heater and a > clip on > light and some hornwort? They could drive to the store in the same > bucket - > would it be OK to drive them in the bucket with a cover on it? I > won't do > it this way if you all think it could be too stressful for them. > > They are getting big - around three inches now and beefy in girth. > I don't > want to keep them in my 37 g any longer - I don't think they are > secreting > or receiving the stress hormones that stunt their growth! > > Thanks for advice... > > Lainey > http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > ------------------------------------ > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, > Thank You. > 74/`7.88.><((((:>.74/`7.88.74/`7.8><((((:> 8.74/`7.8. , .74/`7..>< > ((((:> > PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT > important to > the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY > the SUBJECT > LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- > <:((((><.74/`7.88.74/`7.8<:((((><8.74/`7.8. , .74/`7..<:((((><74/ > `7.88. > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. > > If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of > unsubscribing, you > can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My Membership" > on the > home page. > > Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com to receive the digest, > which > includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email > > Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com for the No E-Mail > option where > you will still be able to read messages on the group and post replies. > > Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com to receive individual > e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 44763	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 11/26/2009
Subject: Re: Catching Siamese Algae Eaters continued

Yes, run it full time. The rising bubbles will circulate the water and the popping bubbles on the surface will create surface agitation which will allow for much better gas exchange... outgasing CO2 and ingasing O2. Also, per your other mentioned plans, adding some live plants and a decoration and putting the air stone on the bottom and then putting a handful of gravel and/or decoration from your tank over the air stone will work as a mini biological filter helping to keep ammonia levels to a minimum, or making the bucket completely cycled, depending on the bioload. Of course, once you start traveling, if the decoration poses any risk of injury to the fish, remove it prior to traveling but keep the gravel, plants and air stone going. On a side note, you mentioned that your bucket is 7G. What kind of bucket it is? I'm familiar with 3G and 7G standardized buckets, like those sold at home repair outlets or those that paint come in, but I'm not familiar with a 7G bucket that has a tight fitting lid. If it's a 5G bucket, that is OK too. I was just wondering if it's really a 7G bucket for your future reference. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Lainey Alexander Sent: Friday, November 27, 2009 12:34 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Catching Siamese Algae Eaters continued Thanks, Lenny - I do have a spare air pump and airstone. Should I run that the whole time they are in the bucket? I guess the very best plan would be to purchase a ten g tank for all of this, but it seems so wasteful, and then I have (another) ten g tank! I have not had luck catching all of them at the same time even with creating hunger. I seem only to be able to catch one or two in a two or three hour period. Maybe I'm not getting them hungry enough:( Lainey http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com On Nov 27, 2009, at 1:24 AM, Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > Do you have a spare air stone or sponge filter or other filter like an > HOB that you could run in the bucket? That would make things better. > If not, then every hour or two, just dip a cup into the bucket and > pour the water back in so that it helps to circulate the water a > little and also provide surface agitation to help keep the water > oxygenated and allow for > CO2 and > other bad gases to outgas from the bucket. > > While it's best to NOT have to keep them in a bucket for so long, I > (and all of my fish in three tanks) survived 14 days after Katrina, > with no power, by doing this on all of my tanks every hour or two. > > I was also fortunate enough to have a UPS from one of my computer > systems that I could run the filters for a few minutes every hour or > two also to keep things cycled but I think the fish would have made it > without the filters and just the water agitation provided by my manual > water circulation/agitation. A friend would drive by every day or so > and recharge my UPS and laptop in his car with an inverter so I could > use my laptop and cell phone to access the net to find out what was > going on in the rest of the world, update family/friends with what was > going on down here. > > Of course, do extra agitation before you go to sleep and do it again > first thing when you wake up... and hope for the best. > > If you can think of a better way of starting in the morning and > getting all the fish into the bucket on the same day and then bringing > the bucket to the store the same day, that would be best. > > Remember that the hungrier they are, the more willing they would be to > swim into the food baited net... so don't feed them for a day or two > prior to starting this task. This would also mean less fish waste in > the holding bucket if it does take you a full 24 hours to catch them > all. > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles > referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically > under Labels and also under Archives by Year, > Month) > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Lainey Alexander > Sent: Thursday, November 26, 2009 10:32 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Subject: [AquaticLife] Catching Siamese Algae Eaters continued > > OK, I think I figured out how to get the SAEs to eat out of the net so > I can catch them - but I'm not sure I can do it all in one day. I may > only get a couple on the first day and the rest on the second. > Then I have to drive them two hours to the lavish store that is taking > them for me. > > My question is: I don't have a spare aquarium to put them into as I > catch each one over a one or two day period. I can buy one, but would > rather not have to. Would it be safe and humane for them if they spent > possibly 24 hours in a 7 gallon bucket of clean tank water with a > heater and a clip on light and some hornwort? They could drive to the > store in the same bucket - would it be OK to drive them in the bucket > with a cover on it? I won't do it this way if you all think it could > be too stressful for them. > > They are getting big - around three inches now and beefy in girth. > I don't > want to keep them in my 37 g any longer - I don't think they are > secreting or receiving the stress hormones that stunt their growth! > > Thanks for advice... > > Lainey > http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > ------------------------------------ > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank > You. > 74/`7.88.><((((:>.74/`7.88.74/`7.8><((((:> 8.74/`7.8. , .74/`7..>< > ((((:> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT > important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message > MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- > <:((((><.74/`7.88.74/`7.8<:((((><8.74/`7.8. , .74/`7..<:((((><74/ > `7.88. > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. > > If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of unsubscribing, > you can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My > Membership" > on the > home page. > > Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com to receive the digest, > which includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email > > Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com for the No E-Mail option > where you will still be able to read messages on the group and post > replies. > > Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com to receive individual > e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] ------------------------------------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the home page. Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com to receive the digest, which includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com for the No E-Mail option where you will still be able to read messages on the group and post replies. Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com to receive individual e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 44764	From: sevenspringss@wmconnect.com	Date: 11/27/2009
Subject: Re: Catching Siamese Algae Eaters continued

Lainey, In following this thread between you and Lenny, you would do well to follow all of his advice on this. I might add, that if you're not successful in catching all the SAE's in one day, that you loosely rest the bucket's cover on top to help prevent any fish from jumping overnight. Be sure to have your car properly heated when you transport them. You did mention that getting a second 10 gallon gallon tank "for all of this" would seem wasteful, but a hobbyist should have an extra tank on hand anyway as a quarantine (or possibly a hospital) tank, at least for new fish introductions. Even a 5 gallon tank for this purpose would be better than nothing -- if your space is limited -- but the present prices of the 5 gallon and 10 gallon tanks are about the same right now, so you might as well get the larger one, should you decide on one. Back to catching them, it's good to see that you've figured out how to get the fish to eat out of the net for easier catching of them, but I would still recommend having a second net on hand. If your first net that the SAE's go into (hopefully) with having some food there as bait has more or less opaque netting that reduces the fish's ability to see much beyond it, you might try sneaking this second net off to one side and to the rear of this first net, to be ready to use it if the fish escapes the first net. Would only like to add, which you should be aware of, that all fish secret growth inhibiting hormones at all times, from the time they're free-swimming. As long as you've kept up with adequate water changing, these hormones should not have concentrated enough to cause any stunting, but this will always be an issue of more inattentive hobbyists. Ray [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 44765	From: Lainey Alexander	Date: 11/27/2009
Subject: Re: Catching Siamese Algae Eaters continued

Ya, it's a 7 g PVC bucket for storing grains and birdseed, with a screw on top. I have lots of them for all my bird supplies. I have some baby blue grass guppies in a 10g and when they get bigger (2.5 weeks now) I think I can move them to my "guppy cube" (new tank) and use that 10g for doing this SAE transfer. For some reason I feel nervous about transporting the SAEs - I have heard that they can be delicate under stress and transport. I'm not sure when these little gupps will be ready to move in with the bigger fish and have been concerned about waiting on the SAEs but all things considered I think this would be best... I think the bucket plan should be only for an emergency situation like Katrina:) Lainey http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com On Nov 27, 2009, at 2:44 AM, Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > Yes, run it full time. The rising bubbles will circulate the water > and the > popping bubbles on the surface will create surface agitation which > will > allow for much better gas exchange... outgasing CO2 and ingasing O2. > > Also, per your other mentioned plans, adding some live plants and a > decoration and putting the air stone on the bottom and then putting a > handful of gravel and/or decoration from your tank over the air > stone will > work as a mini biological filter helping to keep ammonia levels to a > minimum, or making the bucket completely cycled, depending on the > bioload. > Of course, once you start traveling, if the decoration poses any > risk of > injury to the fish, remove it prior to traveling but keep the > gravel, plants > and air stone going. > > On a side note, you mentioned that your bucket is 7G. What kind of > bucket > it is? I'm familiar with 3G and 7G standardized buckets, like those > sold at > home repair outlets or those that paint come in, but I'm not > familiar with a > 7G bucket that has a tight fitting lid. If it's a 5G bucket, that > is OK > too. I was just wondering if it's really a 7G bucket for your future > reference. > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the > right > side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, > Month) > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On > Behalf Of Lainey Alexander > Sent: Friday, November 27, 2009 12:34 AM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Catching Siamese Algae Eaters continued > > Thanks, Lenny - > > I do have a spare air pump and airstone. Should I run that the > whole time > they are in the bucket? > > I guess the very best plan would be to purchase a ten g tank for > all of > this, but it seems so wasteful, and then I have (another) ten g tank! > > I have not had luck catching all of them at the same time even with > creating > hunger. I seem only to be able to catch one or two in a two or > three hour > period. Maybe I'm not getting them hungry enough:( > > Lainey > http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com > > On Nov 27, 2009, at 1:24 AM, Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > > > Do you have a spare air stone or sponge filter or other filter > like an > > HOB that you could run in the bucket? That would make things better. > > If not, then every hour or two, just dip a cup into the bucket and > > pour the water back in so that it helps to circulate the water a > > little and also provide surface agitation to help keep the water > > oxygenated and allow for > > CO2 and > > other bad gases to outgas from the bucket. > > > > While it's best to NOT have to keep them in a bucket for so long, I > > (and all of my fish in three tanks) survived 14 days after Katrina, > > with no power, by doing this on all of my tanks every hour or two. > > > > I was also fortunate enough to have a UPS from one of my computer > > systems that I could run the filters for a few minutes every hour or > > two also to keep things cycled but I think the fish would have > made it > > without the filters and just the water agitation provided by my > manual > > water circulation/agitation. A friend would drive by every day or so > > and recharge my UPS and laptop in his car with an inverter so I > could > > use my laptop and cell phone to access the net to find out what was > > going on in the rest of the world, update family/friends with > what was > > going on down here. > > > > Of course, do extra agitation before you go to sleep and do it again > > first thing when you wake up... and hope for the best. > > > > If you can think of a better way of starting in the morning and > > getting all the fish into the bucket on the same day and then > bringing > > the bucket to the store the same day, that would be best. > > > > Remember that the hungrier they are, the more willing they would > be to > > swim into the food baited net... so don't feed them for a day or two > > prior to starting this task. This would also mean less fish waste in > > the holding bucket if it does take you a full 24 hours to catch them > > all. > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles > > referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, > alphabetically > > under Labels and also under Archives by Year, > > Month) > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Lainey Alexander > > Sent: Thursday, November 26, 2009 10:32 PM > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > Subject: [AquaticLife] Catching Siamese Algae Eaters continued > > > > OK, I think I figured out how to get the SAEs to eat out of the > net so > > I can catch them - but I'm not sure I can do it all in one day. I > may > > only get a couple on the first day and the rest on the second. > > Then I have to drive them two hours to the lavish store that is > taking > > them for me. > > > > My question is: I don't have a spare aquarium to put them into as I > > catch each one over a one or two day period. I can buy one, but > would > > rather not have to. Would it be safe and humane for them if they > spent > > possibly 24 hours in a 7 gallon bucket of clean tank water with a > > heater and a clip on light and some hornwort? They could drive to > the > > store in the same bucket - would it be OK to drive them in the > bucket > > with a cover on it? I won't do it this way if you all think it could > > be too stressful for them. > > > > They are getting big - around three inches now and beefy in girth. > > I don't > > want to keep them in my 37 g any longer - I don't think they are > > secreting or receiving the stress hormones that stunt their growth! > > > > Thanks for advice... > > > > Lainey > > http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > ------------------------------------ > > > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, > Thank > > You. > > 74/`7.88.><((((:>.74/`7.88.74/`7.8><((((:> 8.74/`7.8. , .74/`7..>< > > ((((:> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT > > important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original > message > > MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old > subject)" <- > > <:((((><.74/`7.88.74/`7.8<:((((><8.74/`7.8. , .74/`7..<:((((><74/ > > `7.88. > > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. > > > > If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of > unsubscribing, > > you can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My > > Membership" > > on the > > home page. > > > > Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com to receive the digest, > > which includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email > > > > Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com for the No E-Mail option > > where you will still be able to read messages on the group and post > > replies. > > > > Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com to receive individual > > e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > ------------------------------------ > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, > Thank You. > ���`�.��.><((((�>.���`�.��.���`�.�><((((�> �.���`�.�. , .���`�..>< > ((((�> > PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT > important to > the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY > the SUBJECT > LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- > <�((((><.���`�.��.���`�.�<�((((><�.���`�.�. , .���`�..<�((((><� > ��`�.��. > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. > > If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of > unsubscribing, you > can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My Membership" > on the > home page. > > Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com to receive the digest, > which > includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email > > Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com for the No E-Mail > option where > you will still be able to read messages on the group and post replies. > > Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com to receive individual > e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 44766	From: Lainey Alexander	Date: 11/27/2009
Subject: Re: Catching Siamese Algae Eaters continued

Something strange that I have noticed is that some of my fish have grown a great deal, like tripled in size, while others of the same species have not. So I have rummy nosed tetras who are full grown and some that are half-full grown. Would this be the hormone issue, or just an issue of feeding? I would have thought if it were the hormone issue that none of them would be full-grown. I also have a nice pair of blue rams with an ever-growing male and a female who is only half his size. I see her eating plenty at every feeding...Ideas for why this would be? Thanks very much, Lainey http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com On Nov 27, 2009, at 6:59 AM, sevenspringss@... wrote: > Would only like to add, which you should be aware of, that all fish > secret > growth inhibiting hormones at all times, from the time they're > free-swimming. As long as you've kept up with adequate water > changing, these hormones > should not have concentrated enough to cause any stunting, but this > will > always be an issue of more inattentive hobbyists. Ray [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 44767	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 11/27/2009
Subject: Re: Catching Siamese Algae Eaters continued

I have often wondered why this happens. I have peppered cory catfish in my 125 gallon tank, most of them are fully grown now (got them about 4 or so months ago), but there's 1 that looks tiny compared to the others. My theory was that the smaller ones are not eating as much as the larger ones, if it was stunting due to hormones you would think that all of them would be stunted. As I said it's just my theory though ;) LOL. Perhaps someone else knows why this happens. Amber Lainey Alexander wrote: > > Something strange that I have noticed is that some of my fish have > grown a great deal, like tripled in size, while others of the same > species have not. So I have rummy nosed tetras who are full grown and > some that are half-full grown. Would this be the hormone issue, or > just an issue of feeding? I would have thought if it were the hormone > issue that none of them would be full-grown. > > I also have a nice pair of blue rams with an ever-growing male and a > female who is only half his size. I see her eating plenty at every > feeding...Ideas for why this would be? > > Thanks very much, > > Lainey > http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com <http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com> > > On Nov 27, 2009, at 6:59 AM, sevenspringss@... > <mailto:sevenspringss%40wmconnect.com> wrote: > > > Would only like to add, which you should be aware of, that all fish > > secret > > growth inhibiting hormones at all times, from the time they're > > free-swimming. As long as you've kept up with adequate water > > changing, these hormones > > should not have concentrated enough to cause any stunting, but this > > will > > always be an issue of more inattentive hobbyists. Ray > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 44768	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 11/27/2009
Subject: Re: Catching Siamese Algae Eaters continued

The male guppy's will mature the fastest, so you could move them earlier than the females, or you could just wait until they're all mature. I think females take nearly 2 months to fully mature, but I don't time mine, LOL. My guppy's are trying to breed me out of house and tanks ;) LOL. I have quite a few that need relocated down to the 125 gallon tank, I have a feeling that the Severum picks off the smaller ones but I've never seen him eat the adults, I've seen him chase moving babies though. I got guppy's for this reason (for extra food for him) so this isn't an issue, just a matter of taking the time to move a bunch of guppy's ;) Amber Lainey Alexander wrote: > Ya, it's a 7 g PVC bucket for storing grains and birdseed, with a > screw on top. I have lots of them for all my bird supplies. > > I have some baby blue grass guppies in a 10g and when they get bigger > (2.5 weeks now) I think I can move them to my "guppy cube" (new > tank) and use that 10g for doing this SAE transfer. For some reason I > feel nervous about transporting the SAEs - I have heard that they can > be delicate under stress and transport. > > I'm not sure when these little gupps will be ready to move in with > the bigger fish and have been concerned about waiting on the SAEs but > all things considered I think this would be best... > > I think the bucket plan should be only for an emergency situation > like Katrina:) > > Lainey > http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com > > On Nov 27, 2009, at 2:44 AM, Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > > >> Yes, run it full time. The rising bubbles will circulate the water >> and the >> popping bubbles on the surface will create surface agitation which >> will >> allow for much better gas exchange... outgasing CO2 and ingasing O2. >> >> Also, per your other mentioned plans, adding some live plants and a >> decoration and putting the air stone on the bottom and then putting a >> handful of gravel and/or decoration from your tank over the air >> stone will >> work as a mini biological filter helping to keep ammonia levels to a >> minimum, or making the bucket completely cycled, depending on the >> bioload. >> Of course, once you start traveling, if the decoration poses any >> risk of >> injury to the fish, remove it prior to traveling but keep the >> gravel, plants >> and air stone going. >> >> On a side note, you mentioned that your bucket is 7G. What kind of >> bucket >> it is? I'm familiar with 3G and 7G standardized buckets, like those >> sold at >> home repair outlets or those that paint come in, but I'm not >> familiar with a >> 7G bucket that has a tight fitting lid. If it's a 5G bucket, that >> is OK >> too. I was just wondering if it's really a 7G bucket for your future >> reference. >> >> Lenny Vasbinder >> Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com >> (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the >> right >> side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, >> Month) >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com >> [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On >> Behalf Of Lainey Alexander >> Sent: Friday, November 27, 2009 12:34 AM >> To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com >> Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Catching Siamese Algae Eaters continued >> >> Thanks, Lenny - >> >> I do have a spare air pump and airstone. Should I run that the >> whole time >> they are in the bucket? >> >> I guess the very best plan would be to purchase a ten g tank for >> all of >> this, but it seems so wasteful, and then I have (another) ten g tank! >> >> I have not had luck catching all of them at the same time even with >> creating >> hunger. I seem only to be able to catch one or two in a two or >> three hour >> period. Maybe I'm not getting them hungry enough:( >> >> Lainey >> http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com >> >> On Nov 27, 2009, at 1:24 AM, Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: >> >> >>> Do you have a spare air stone or sponge filter or other filter >>> >> like an >> >>> HOB that you could run in the bucket? That would make things better. >>> If not, then every hour or two, just dip a cup into the bucket and >>> pour the water back in so that it helps to circulate the water a >>> little and also provide surface agitation to help keep the water >>> oxygenated and allow for >>> CO2 and >>> other bad gases to outgas from the bucket. >>> >>> While it's best to NOT have to keep them in a bucket for so long, I >>> (and all of my fish in three tanks) survived 14 days after Katrina, >>> with no power, by doing this on all of my tanks every hour or two. >>> >>> I was also fortunate enough to have a UPS from one of my computer >>> systems that I could run the filters for a few minutes every hour or >>> two also to keep things cycled but I think the fish would have >>> >> made it >> >>> without the filters and just the water agitation provided by my >>> >> manual >> >>> water circulation/agitation. A friend would drive by every day or so >>> and recharge my UPS and laptop in his car with an inverter so I >>> >> could >> >>> use my laptop and cell phone to access the net to find out what was >>> going on in the rest of the world, update family/friends with >>> >> what was >> >>> going on down here. >>> >>> Of course, do extra agitation before you go to sleep and do it again >>> first thing when you wake up... and hope for the best. >>> >>> If you can think of a better way of starting in the morning and >>> getting all the fish into the bucket on the same day and then >>> >> bringing >> >>> the bucket to the store the same day, that would be best. >>> >>> Remember that the hungrier they are, the more willing they would >>> >> be to >> >>> swim into the food baited net... so don't feed them for a day or two >>> prior to starting this task. This would also mean less fish waste in >>> the holding bucket if it does take you a full 24 hours to catch them >>> all. >>> >>> Lenny Vasbinder >>> Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles >>> referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, >>> >> alphabetically >> >>> under Labels and also under Archives by Year, >>> Month) >>> >>> -----Original Message----- >>> From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com >>> [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Lainey Alexander >>> Sent: Thursday, November 26, 2009 10:32 PM >>> To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com >>> Subject: [AquaticLife] Catching Siamese Algae Eaters continued >>> >>> OK, I think I figured out how to get the SAEs to eat out of the >>> >> net so >> >>> I can catch them - but I'm not sure I can do it all in one day. I >>> >> may >> >>> only get a couple on the first day and the rest on the second. >>> Then I have to drive them two hours to the lavish store that is >>> >> taking >> >>> them for me. >>> >>> My question is: I don't have a spare aquarium to put them into as I >>> catch each one over a one or two day period. I can buy one, but >>> >> would >> >>> rather not have to. Would it be safe and humane for them if they >>> >> spent >> >>> possibly 24 hours in a 7 gallon bucket of clean tank water with a >>> heater and a clip on light and some hornwort? They could drive to >>> >> the >> >>> store in the same bucket - would it be OK to drive them in the >>> >> bucket >> >>> with a cover on it? I won't do it this way if you all think it could >>> be too stressful for them. >>> >>> They are getting big - around three inches now and beefy in girth. >>> I don't >>> want to keep them in my 37 g any longer - I don't think they are >>> secreting or receiving the stress hormones that stunt their growth! >>> >>> Thanks for advice... >>> >>> Lainey >>> http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com >>> >>> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] >>> >>> ------------------------------------ >>> >>> Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, >>> >> Thank >> >>> You. >>> 74/`7.88.><((((:>.74/`7.88.74/`7.8><((((:> 8.74/`7.8. , .74/`7..>< >>> ((((:> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT >>> important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original >>> >> message >> >>> MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old >>> >> subject)" <- >> >>> <:((((><.74/`7.88.74/`7.8<:((((><8.74/`7.8. , .74/`7..<:((((><74/ >>> `7.88. >>> We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. >>> >>> If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of >>> >> unsubscribing, >> >>> you can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My >>> Membership" >>> on the >>> home page. >>> >>> Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com to receive the digest, >>> which includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email >>> >>> Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com for the No E-Mail option >>> where you will still be able to read messages on the group and post >>> replies. >>> >>> Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com to receive individual >>> e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links >>> >>> >>> >> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] >> >> ------------------------------------ >> >> Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, >> Thank You. >> ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..>< >> ((((º> >> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT >> important to >> the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY >> the SUBJECT >> LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- >> <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><· >> ´¯`·.¸¸. >> We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. >> >> If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of >> unsubscribing, you >> can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My Membership" >> on the >> home page. >> >> Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com to receive the digest, >> which >> includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email >> >> Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com for the No E-Mail >> option where >> you will still be able to read messages on the group and post replies. >> >> Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com to receive individual >> e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links >> >> >> > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > ------------------------------------ > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. > ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> > PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- > <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. > > If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the home page. > > Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com to receive the digest, which includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email > > Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com for the No E-Mail option where you will still be able to read messages on the group and post replies. > > Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com to receive individual e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links > > > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 44769	From: sevenspringss@wmconnect.com	Date: 11/27/2009
Subject: Re: Catching Siamese Algae Eaters continued

Lainey, You haven't stated whether your Rummy Nose Tetras are all the same age, but even if they are, the growth inhibiting hormones that fish produce would not result in such growth disparity as some fish of the same species being only half the size of others. With many fish species, just as in humans, they often don't grow at the same rate or to the same final size; this difference can be due to genetics. This in itself still does not explain this much of a size difference in your Tetras. It is quite common though, for fish not all reaching their "maximum" length, but the difference is most usually much less (depending upon species). Tetras are usually more uniform in size (length). A larger girth often indicates a female though. If you bought them near the same time (and at the same initial size), it's still possible that they came from two different sources, especially if they came from two different LFS's. Even if they came from the same shop, if they were bought weeks apart, they may have come from two different spawns. This would be less likely if you bought them all the same day at one location, but the shop keeper still could have added some from a different spawn if his stock got low. The issue I'm driving at with them possibly coming from two different spawns or even from two different locations is that when any one spawn was reared, they each may have been subjected to different levels of stocking -- some spawns may possibly having been crowded at that early stage -- which would account for a set-back in growth and/or at least partial stunting. With many fish species, and noteably among a good number of Cichlids, the females remain smaller than the males. Your Blue Rams will display this growth difference between sexes, even if normally not by as much as you point out. There's the possibility that the larger fish (male) is taking more than his share of food, consistently leaving her with less than her ideal share even though I would expect she remains perfectly healthy. Ray [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 44770	From: Kathy	Date: 11/27/2009
Subject: Update on how my betta is doing

Hi all, Pisces is doing well--we've come to my parents house for Thanksgiving, and since I have only two weeks between Thanksgiving and winter break, he will be staying with my parents for those two weeks. Hopefully they'll get his feeding schedule right--he eats twice a day, and I alternate giving him bloodworms and Bettamin, so one day he'll eat bloodworms, the next he'll eat the flakes. I try to feed him only when the room is well-lit, which I'm sure that one of my family members will know to do. And my dad might be getting me some foreceps to use for the bloodworms so that I don't develop an allergy. I got the live plants put in a while back, and he seems to like them better than the fake one I had. Walmart only had plastic plants, so I got the softest one I could find. Pisces seems ok with the fact that my parents keep the house about seven degrees cooler than my suitemates keep our suite. His water is a little on the cool side here (69 degrees), but he seems to be doing well, he's still active. He was not happy being transported though, at first he freaked out but by the time we got him home he was overwhelmed and sluggish. It didn't help that we were travelling in subfreezing weather. Oh yeah. Can bettas see color? Are they smart enough to learn what different colors mean? I'm wondering cause Pisces seems to get more excited for the blue jar of bloodworms than for the yellow jar of flakes. -Kathy

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 44771	From: Lainey Alexander	Date: 11/27/2009
Subject: Re: Catching Siamese Algae Eaters continued

Hi Ray - The RNTs all came from the same store, same tank, same day, same size at time of purchase a few months ago. I got seven of them. Two are full grown now, two are about half adult size and three are somewhere in between. I guess the little ones aren't getting as much food? That's all I can think... Lainey http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com On Nov 27, 2009, at 12:25 PM, sevenspringss@... wrote: > Lainey, You haven't stated whether your Rummy Nose Tetras are all > the same > age, but even if they are, the growth inhibiting hormones that fish > produce > would not result in such growth disparity as some fish of the same > species > being only half the size of others. With many fish species, just as in > humans, they often don't grow at the same rate or to the same final > size; this > difference can be due to genetics. This in itself still does not > explain > this much of a size difference in your Tetras. It is quite common > though, for > fish not all reaching their "maximum" length, but the difference is > most > usually much less (depending upon species). Tetras are usually more > uniform in > size (length). A larger girth often indicates a female though. > > If you bought them near the same time (and at the same initial > size), it's > still possible that they came from two different sources, > especially if they > came from two different LFS's. Even if they came from the same > shop, if > they were bought weeks apart, they may have come from two different > spawns. > This would be less likely if you bought them all the same day at one > location, but the shop keeper still could have added some from a > different spawn if > his stock got low. The issue I'm driving at with them possibly > coming from > two different spawns or even from two different locations is that > when any > one spawn was reared, they each may have been subjected to > different levels > of stocking -- some spawns may possibly having been crowded at that > early > stage -- which would account for a set-back in growth and/or at > least partial > stunting. > > With many fish species, and noteably among a good number of > Cichlids, the > females remain smaller than the males. Your Blue Rams will display > this > growth difference between sexes, even if normally not by as much as > you point > out. There's the possibility that the larger fish (male) is taking > more than > his share of food, consistently leaving her with less than her > ideal share > even though I would expect she remains perfectly healthy. Ray > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 44772	From: bill 1433	Date: 11/27/2009
Subject: Re: Catching Siamese Algae Eaters continued

Hi Lainey,   Besides all the reasons Ray has just given you, there is something else to consider.  Keeping a 10-gallon tank up and running with a good sponge filter and heater just makes good sense if your keeping fish at all.   Why?  Money!  Sooner to later our little friends get sick or beaten up by a tank bully.  If you will notice, many over the counter med's are automatically dosed out for 10 or 5 gallons.  That's quite a cost factor if you're trying to dose a 55 or 100-gallon tank.  The ten-gallon tank is probably the hardest working tank in the Aquarium Hobby today.  Right now you can get an entire new kit at Wal-Mart for under $50 bucks that includes lights, filter everything you need.  Better yet they are listed on Craigslist even cheaper!   Bill --- On Fri, 11/27/09, sevenspringss@... <sevenspringss@...> wrote: From: sevenspringss@... <sevenspringss@...> Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Catching Siamese Algae Eaters continued To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Date: Friday, November 27, 2009, 6:59 AM Lainey,  In following this thread between you and Lenny, you would do well to follow all of his advice on this.  I might add, that if you're not successful in catching all the SAE's in one day, that you loosely rest the bucket's cover on top to help prevent any fish from jumping overnight.  Be sure to have your car properly heated when you transport them.    You did mention that getting a second 10 gallon gallon tank "for all of this" would seem wasteful, but a hobbyist should have an extra tank on hand anyway as a quarantine (or possibly a hospital) tank, at least for new fish introductions.  Even a 5 gallon tank for this purpose would be better than nothing -- if your space is limited -- but the present prices of the 5 gallon and 10 gallon tanks are about the same right now, so you might as well get the larger one, should you decide on one. Back to catching them, it's good to see that you've figured out how to get the fish to eat out of the net for easier catching of them, but I would still recommend having a second net on hand.  If your first net that the SAE's go into (hopefully) with having some food there as bait has more or less opaque netting that reduces the fish's ability to see much beyond it, you might try sneaking this second net off to one side and to the rear of this first net, to be ready to use it if the fish escapes the first net. Would only like to add, which you should be aware of, that all fish secret growth inhibiting hormones at all times, from the time they're free-swimming.  As long as you've kept up with adequate water changing, these hormones should not have concentrated enough to cause any stunting, but this will always be an issue of more inattentive hobbyists.  Ray [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] ------------------------------------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the home page.  Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com to receive the digest, which includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com for the No E-Mail option where you will still be able to read messages on the group and post replies. Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com to receive individual e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 44773	From: Lainey Alexander	Date: 11/27/2009
Subject: Re: Catching Siamese Algae Eaters continued

I bought a spare 10g early on and right now it is "in use" by some baby guppies. This is why I don't really want another one, but will purchase one if necessary. Thanks, Lainey http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com On Nov 27, 2009, at 3:02 PM, bill 1433 wrote: > Hi Lainey, > > Besides all the reasons Ray has just given you, there is something > else > to consider. Keeping a 10-gallon tank up and running with a good > sponge filter and heater just makes good sense if your keeping fish > at all. > > Why? Money! Sooner to later our little friends get sick or beaten > up by > a tank bully. If you will notice, many over the counter med's are > automatically dosed out for 10 or 5 gallons. That's quite a cost > factor if you're trying to dose a 55 or 100-gallon tank. The ten- > gallon tank is probably the hardest working tank in the Aquarium > Hobby today. Right now you can get an entire new kit at Wal-Mart > for under $50 bucks that includes lights, filter everything you > need. Better yet they are listed on Craigslist even cheaper! > > Bill > > --- On Fri, 11/27/09, sevenspringss@... > <sevenspringss@...> wrote: > > From: sevenspringss@... <sevenspringss@...> > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Catching Siamese Algae Eaters continued > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Date: Friday, November 27, 2009, 6:59 AM > > Lainey, In following this thread between you and Lenny, you would > do well > to follow all of his advice on this. I might add, that if you're not > successful in catching all the SAE's in one day, that you loosely > rest the > bucket's cover on top to help prevent any fish from jumping > overnight. Be sure to > have your car properly heated when you transport them. > > You did mention that getting a second 10 gallon gallon tank "for > all of > this" would seem wasteful, but a hobbyist should have an extra tank > on hand > anyway as a quarantine (or possibly a hospital) tank, at least for > new fish > introductions. Even a 5 gallon tank for this purpose would be > better than > nothing -- if your space is limited -- but the present prices of > the 5 gallon > and 10 gallon tanks are about the same right now, so you might as > well get the > larger one, should you decide on one. > > Back to catching them, it's good to see that you've figured out how > to get > the fish to eat out of the net for easier catching of them, but I > would > still recommend having a second net on hand. If your first net > that the SAE's > go into (hopefully) with having some food there as bait has more or > less > opaque netting that reduces the fish's ability to see much beyond > it, you might > try sneaking this second net off to one side and to the rear of > this first > net, to be ready to use it if the fish escapes the first net. > > Would only like to add, which you should be aware of, that all fish > secret > growth inhibiting hormones at all times, from the time they're > free-swimming. As long as you've kept up with adequate water > changing, these hormones > should not have concentrated enough to cause any stunting, but this > will > always be an issue of more inattentive hobbyists. Ray > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > ------------------------------------ > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, > Thank You. > ���`�.��.><((((�>.���`�.��.���`�.�><((((�> �.���`�.�. , .���`�..>< > ((((�> > PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT > important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original > message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old > subject)" <- > <�((((><.���`�.��.���`�.�<�((((><�.���`�.�. , .���`�..<�((((><� > ��`�.��. > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. > > If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of > unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by clicking on > "Edit My Membership" on the home page. > > Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com to receive the digest, > which includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email > > Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com for the No E-Mail > option where you will still be able to read messages on the group > and post replies. > > Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com to receive individual e- > mails.Yahoo! Groups Links > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 44774	From: bill 1433	Date: 11/27/2009
Subject: Re: Catching Siamese Algae Eaters continued

Lainey, Just speaking...........if you start fooling around with 5-gallon buckets, air-stones and what not, wouldn't it be easier to use have the 10-gallon heater and all and then your covered? Bill --- On Fri, 11/27/09, Lainey Alexander <lainealex@...> wrote: > From: Lainey Alexander <lainealex@...> > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Catching Siamese Algae Eaters continued > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Date: Friday, November 27, 2009, 3:05 PM > I bought a spare 10g early on and > right now it is "in use" by some  > baby guppies. This is why I don't really want another one, > but will  > purchase one if necessary. > > Thanks, > > Lainey > http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com > > On Nov 27, 2009, at 3:02 PM, bill 1433 wrote: > > > Hi Lainey, > > > > Besides all the reasons Ray has just given you, there > is something  > > else > > to consider.  Keeping a 10-gallon tank up and > running with a good  > > sponge filter and heater just makes good sense if your > keeping fish  > > at all. > > > > Why?  Money!  Sooner to later our little > friends get sick or beaten  > > up by > > a tank bully.  If you will notice, many over the > counter med's are  > > automatically dosed out for 10 or 5 gallons.  > That's quite a cost  > > factor if you're trying to dose a 55 or 100-gallon > tank.  The ten- > > gallon tank is probably the hardest working tank in > the Aquarium  > > Hobby today.  Right now you can get an entire new > kit at Wal-Mart  > > for under $50 bucks that includes lights, filter > everything you  > > need.  Better yet they are listed on Craigslist > even cheaper! > > > > Bill > > > > --- On Fri, 11/27/09, sevenspringss@...  > > > <sevenspringss@...> > wrote: > > > > From: sevenspringss@... > <sevenspringss@...> > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Catching Siamese Algae > Eaters continued > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > Date: Friday, November 27, 2009, 6:59 AM > > > > Lainey,  In following this thread between you and > Lenny, you would  > > do well > > to follow all of his advice on this.  I might > add, that if you're not > > successful in catching all the SAE's in one day, that > you loosely  > > rest the > > bucket's cover on top to help prevent any fish from > jumping  > > overnight.  Be sure to > > have your car properly heated when you transport > them. > > > > You did mention that getting a second 10 gallon gallon > tank "for  > > all of > > this" would seem wasteful, but a hobbyist should have > an extra tank  > > on hand > > anyway as a quarantine (or possibly a hospital) tank, > at least for  > > new fish > > introductions.  Even a 5 gallon tank for this > purpose would be  > > better than > > nothing -- if your space is limited -- but the present > prices of  > > the 5 gallon > > and 10 gallon tanks are about the same right now, so > you might as  > > well get the > > larger one, should you decide on one. > > > > Back to catching them, it's good to see that you've > figured out how  > > to get > > the fish to eat out of the net for easier catching of > them, but I  > > would > > still recommend having a second net on hand.  If > your first net  > > that the SAE's > > go into (hopefully) with having some food there as > bait has more or  > > less > > opaque netting that reduces the fish's ability to see > much beyond  > > it, you might > > try sneaking this second net off to one side and to > the rear of  > > this first > > net, to be ready to use it if the fish escapes the > first net. > > > > Would only like to add, which you should be aware of, > that all fish  > > secret > > growth inhibiting hormones at all times, from the time > they're > > free-swimming.  As long as you've kept up with > adequate water  > > changing, these hormones > > should not have concentrated enough to cause any > stunting, but this  > > will > > always be an issue of more inattentive > hobbyists.  Ray > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > ------------------------------------ > > > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when > replying,  > > Thank You. > > > ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> > ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..>< > > ((((º> > > PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that > is NOT  > > important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of > the original  > > message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new > subject (was re: old  > > subject)" <- > > > <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. > , .·´¯`·..<º((((><· > > ´¯`·.¸¸. > > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. > > > > If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead > of  > > unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by > clicking on  > > "Edit My Membership" on the home page. > > > > Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com > to receive the digest,  > > which includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single > email > > > > Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com > for the No E-Mail  > > option where you will still be able to read messages > on the group  > > and post replies. > > > > Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com > to receive individual e- > > mails.Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > ------------------------------------ > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when > replying, Thank You. > ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> > ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> > PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is > NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of > the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new > subject (was re: old subject)" <- > <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. > , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. > > If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of > unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by > clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the home page.  > > Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com > to receive the digest, which includes up to 25 posts at a > time in a single email > > Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com > for the No E-Mail option where you will still be able to > read messages on the group and post replies. > > Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com > to receive individual e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links > > >     AquaticLife-fullfeatured@yahoogroups.com > > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 44775	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 11/27/2009
Subject: Re: Catching Siamese Algae Eaters continued

Bill, But the one thing you and Ray fail to mention is that when you go out and buy some fish, quarantine them in the 10 gallon tank, and they never make the transition to the big display tank. Suddenly you have a new tank to care for, with fish in it, and, if they are all the same species, as most of my purchases are, you have a new single species tank! Then you have the need for yet another tank. Easiest way in the world to become a victim of MTS. \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of bill 1433 Sent: Friday, November 27, 2009 3:03 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Catching Siamese Algae Eaters continued Hi Lainey,   Besides all the reasons Ray has just given you, there is something else to consider.  Keeping a 10-gallon tank up and running with a good sponge filter and heater just makes good sense if your keeping fish at all.   Why?  Money!  Sooner to later our little friends get sick or beaten up by a tank bully.  If you will notice, many over the counter med's are automatically dosed out for 10 or 5 gallons.  That's quite a cost factor if you're trying to dose a 55 or 100-gallon tank.  The ten-gallon tank is probably the hardest working tank in the Aquarium Hobby today.  Right now you can get an entire new kit at Wal-Mart for under $50 bucks that includes lights, filter everything you need.  Better yet they are listed on Craigslist even cheaper!   Bill --- On Fri, 11/27/09, sevenspringss@... <sevenspringss@...> wrote: From: sevenspringss@... <sevenspringss@...> Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Catching Siamese Algae Eaters continued To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Date: Friday, November 27, 2009, 6:59 AM Lainey,  In following this thread between you and Lenny, you would do well to follow all of his advice on this.  I might add, that if you're not successful in catching all the SAE's in one day, that you loosely rest the bucket's cover on top to help prevent any fish from jumping overnight.  Be sure to have your car properly heated when you transport them.    You did mention that getting a second 10 gallon gallon tank "for all of this" would seem wasteful, but a hobbyist should have an extra tank on hand anyway as a quarantine (or possibly a hospital) tank, at least for new fish introductions.  Even a 5 gallon tank for this purpose would be better than nothing -- if your space is limited -- but the present prices of the 5 gallon and 10 gallon tanks are about the same right now, so you might as well get the larger one, should you decide on one. Back to catching them, it's good to see that you've figured out how to get the fish to eat out of the net for easier catching of them, but I would still recommend having a second net on hand.  If your first net that the SAE's go into (hopefully) with having some food there as bait has more or less opaque netting that reduces the fish's ability to see much beyond it, you might try sneaking this second net off to one side and to the rear of this first net, to be ready to use it if the fish escapes the first net. Would only like to add, which you should be aware of, that all fish secret growth inhibiting hormones at all times, from the time they're free-swimming.  As long as you've kept up with adequate water changing, these hormones should not have concentrated enough to cause any stunting, but this will always be an issue of more inattentive hobbyists.  Ray

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 44776	From: bill 1433	Date: 11/27/2009
Subject: Re: Catching Siamese Algae Eaters continued

Yes, I know \\Steve//, you have warned me about this before but I did not feel the need to "worry" her so early on! <g> Happy Holidays, Bill --- On Fri, 11/27/09, Steve Szabo <steve@...> wrote: > From: Steve Szabo <steve@...> > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Catching Siamese Algae Eaters continued > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Date: Friday, November 27, 2009, 3:34 PM > Bill, > > But the one thing you and Ray fail to mention is that when > you go out and > buy some fish, quarantine them in the 10 gallon tank, and > they never make > the transition to the big display tank. Suddenly you have a > new tank to care > for, with fish in it, and, if they are all the same > species, as most of my > purchases are, you have a new single species tank! Then you > have the need > for yet another tank. Easiest way in the world to become a > victim of MTS. > > \\Steve// > > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] > On > Behalf Of bill 1433 > Sent: Friday, November 27, 2009 3:03 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Catching Siamese Algae Eaters > continued > > Hi Lainey, >   > Besides all the reasons Ray has just given you, there is > something else > to consider.  Keeping a 10-gallon tank up and running with > a good sponge > filter and heater just makes good sense if your keeping > fish at all. >   > Why?  Money!  Sooner to later our little friends get sick > or beaten up by > a tank bully.  If you will notice, many over the counter > med's are > automatically dosed out for 10 or 5 gallons.  That's quite > a cost factor if > you're trying to dose a 55 or 100-gallon tank.  The > ten-gallon tank is > probably the hardest working tank in the Aquarium Hobby > today.  Right now > you can get an entire new kit at Wal-Mart for under $50 > bucks that includes > lights, filter everything you need.  Better yet they are > listed on > Craigslist even cheaper! >   > Bill > > --- On Fri, 11/27/09, sevenspringss@... > <sevenspringss@...> > wrote: > > > From: sevenspringss@... > <sevenspringss@...> > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Catching Siamese Algae Eaters > continued > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Date: Friday, November 27, 2009, 6:59 AM > > > Lainey,  In following this thread between you and Lenny, > you would do well > to follow all of his advice on this.  I might add, that if > you're not > successful in catching all the SAE's in one day, that you > loosely rest the > bucket's cover on top to help prevent any fish from jumping > overnight.  Be > sure to > have your car properly heated when you transport them.    > > > You did mention that getting a second 10 gallon gallon tank > "for all of > this" would seem wasteful, but a hobbyist should have an > extra tank on hand > anyway as a quarantine (or possibly a hospital) tank, at > least for new fish > introductions.  Even a 5 gallon tank for this purpose > would be better than > nothing -- if your space is limited -- but the present > prices of the 5 > gallon > and 10 gallon tanks are about the same right now, so you > might as well get > the > larger one, should you decide on one. > > Back to catching them, it's good to see that you've figured > out how to get > the fish to eat out of the net for easier catching of them, > but I would > still recommend having a second net on hand.  If your > first net that the > SAE's > go into (hopefully) with having some food there as bait has > more or less > opaque netting that reduces the fish's ability to see much > beyond it, you > might > try sneaking this second net off to one side and to the > rear of this first > net, to be ready to use it if the fish escapes the first > net. > > Would only like to add, which you should be aware of, that > all fish secret > growth inhibiting hormones at all times, from the time > they're > free-swimming.  As long as you've kept up with adequate > water changing, > these hormones > should not have concentrated enough to cause any stunting, > but this will > always be an issue of more inattentive hobbyists.  Ray > > > > > ------------------------------------ > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when > replying, Thank You. > ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> > ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> > PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is > NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of > the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new > subject (was re: old subject)" <- > <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. > , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. > > If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of > unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by > clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the home page.  > > Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com > to receive the digest, which includes up to 25 posts at a > time in a single email > > Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com > for the No E-Mail option where you will still be able to > read messages on the group and post replies. > > Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com > to receive individual e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links > > >     AquaticLife-fullfeatured@yahoogroups.com > > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 44777	From: Lainey Alexander	Date: 11/27/2009
Subject: Re: Catching Siamese Algae Eaters continued

Oh, you mean how I already have five tanks? I'm afraid it's a little late to warn me about that! Granted two of them are very small (shrimp/betta). Lainey http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com On Nov 27, 2009, at 3:50 PM, bill 1433 wrote: > Yes, I know \\Steve//, you have warned me about this before > but I did not feel the need to "worry" her so early on! <g> > > Happy Holidays, > > Bill > > --- On Fri, 11/27/09, Steve Szabo <steve@...> wrote: > > > From: Steve Szabo <steve@...> > > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Catching Siamese Algae Eaters continued > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > Date: Friday, November 27, 2009, 3:34 PM > > Bill, > > > > But the one thing you and Ray fail to mention is that when > > you go out and > > buy some fish, quarantine them in the 10 gallon tank, and > > they never make > > the transition to the big display tank. Suddenly you have a > > new tank to care > > for, with fish in it, and, if they are all the same > > species, as most of my > > purchases are, you have a new single species tank! Then you > > have the need > > for yet another tank. Easiest way in the world to become a > > victim of MTS. > > > > \\Steve// > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] > > On > > Behalf Of bill 1433 > > Sent: Friday, November 27, 2009 3:03 PM > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Catching Siamese Algae Eaters > > continued > > > > Hi Lainey, > > > > Besides all the reasons Ray has just given you, there is > > something else > > to consider. Keeping a 10-gallon tank up and running with > > a good sponge > > filter and heater just makes good sense if your keeping > > fish at all. > > > > Why? Money! Sooner to later our little friends get sick > > or beaten up by > > a tank bully. If you will notice, many over the counter > > med's are > > automatically dosed out for 10 or 5 gallons. That's quite > > a cost factor if > > you're trying to dose a 55 or 100-gallon tank. The > > ten-gallon tank is > > probably the hardest working tank in the Aquarium Hobby > > today. Right now > > you can get an entire new kit at Wal-Mart for under $50 > > bucks that includes > > lights, filter everything you need. Better yet they are > > listed on > > Craigslist even cheaper! > > > > Bill > > > > --- On Fri, 11/27/09, sevenspringss@... > > <sevenspringss@...> > > wrote: > > > > > > From: sevenspringss@... > > <sevenspringss@...> > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Catching Siamese Algae Eaters > > continued > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > Date: Friday, November 27, 2009, 6:59 AM > > > > > > Lainey, In following this thread between you and Lenny, > > you would do well > > to follow all of his advice on this. I might add, that if > > you're not > > successful in catching all the SAE's in one day, that you > > loosely rest the > > bucket's cover on top to help prevent any fish from jumping > > overnight. Be > > sure to > > have your car properly heated when you transport them. > > > > > > You did mention that getting a second 10 gallon gallon tank > > "for all of > > this" would seem wasteful, but a hobbyist should have an > > extra tank on hand > > anyway as a quarantine (or possibly a hospital) tank, at > > least for new fish > > introductions. Even a 5 gallon tank for this purpose > > would be better than > > nothing -- if your space is limited -- but the present > > prices of the 5 > > gallon > > and 10 gallon tanks are about the same right now, so you > > might as well get > > the > > larger one, should you decide on one. > > > > Back to catching them, it's good to see that you've figured > > out how to get > > the fish to eat out of the net for easier catching of them, > > but I would > > still recommend having a second net on hand. If your > > first net that the > > SAE's > > go into (hopefully) with having some food there as bait has > > more or less > > opaque netting that reduces the fish's ability to see much > > beyond it, you > > might > > try sneaking this second net off to one side and to the > > rear of this first > > net, to be ready to use it if the fish escapes the first > > net. > > > > Would only like to add, which you should be aware of, that > > all fish secret > > growth inhibiting hormones at all times, from the time > > they're > > free-swimming. As long as you've kept up with adequate > > water changing, > > these hormones > > should not have concentrated enough to cause any stunting, > > but this will > > always be an issue of more inattentive hobbyists. Ray > > > > > > > > > > ------------------------------------ > > > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when > > replying, Thank You. > > ���`�.��.><((((�>.���`�.��.���`�.�><((((�> > > �.���`�.�. , .���`�..><((((�> > > PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is > > NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of > > the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new > > subject (was re: old subject)" <- > > <�((((><.���`�.��.���`�.�<�((((><�.���`�.�. > > , .���`�..<�((((><���`�.��. > > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. > > > > If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of > > unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by > > clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the home page. > > > > Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com > > to receive the digest, which includes up to 25 posts at a > > time in a single email > > > > Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com > > for the No E-Mail option where you will still be able to > > read messages on the group and post replies. > > > > Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com > > to receive individual e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > AquaticLife-fullfeatured@yahoogroups.com > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 44778	From: bill 1433	Date: 11/27/2009
Subject: Re: Catching Siamese Algae Eaters continued

Lainey, it doesn't matter! Over one is MTS! Bill --- On Fri, 11/27/09, Lainey Alexander <lainealex@...> wrote: > From: Lainey Alexander <lainealex@...> > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Catching Siamese Algae Eaters continued > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Date: Friday, November 27, 2009, 4:07 PM > Oh, you mean  how I already have > five tanks? > > I'm afraid it's a little late to warn me about that! > > Granted two of them are very small (shrimp/betta). > > Lainey > http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com > > On Nov 27, 2009, at 3:50 PM, bill 1433 wrote: > > > Yes, I know \\Steve//, you have warned me about this > before > > but I did not feel the need to "worry" her so early > on! <g> > > > > Happy Holidays, > > > > Bill > > > > --- On Fri, 11/27/09, Steve Szabo <steve@...> > wrote: > > > > > From: Steve Szabo <steve@...> > > > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Catching Siamese Algae > Eaters continued > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > > Date: Friday, November 27, 2009, 3:34 PM > > > Bill, > > > > > > But the one thing you and Ray fail to mention is > that when > > > you go out and > > > buy some fish, quarantine them in the 10 gallon > tank, and > > > they never make > > > the transition to the big display tank. Suddenly > you have a > > > new tank to care > > > for, with fish in it, and, if they are all the > same > > > species, as most of my > > > purchases are, you have a new single species > tank! Then you > > > have the need > > > for yet another tank. Easiest way in the world to > become a > > > victim of MTS. > > > > > > \\Steve// > > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] > > > On > > > Behalf Of bill 1433 > > > Sent: Friday, November 27, 2009 3:03 PM > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Catching Siamese Algae > Eaters > > > continued > > > > > > Hi Lainey, > > > > > > Besides all the reasons Ray has just given you, > there is > > > something else > > > to consider.  Keeping a 10-gallon tank up > and running with > > > a good sponge > > > filter and heater just makes good sense if your > keeping > > > fish at all. > > > > > > Why?  Money!  Sooner to later our > little friends get sick > > > or beaten up by > > > a tank bully.  If you will notice, many over > the counter > > > med's are > > > automatically dosed out for 10 or 5 > gallons.  That's quite > > > a cost factor if > > > you're trying to dose a 55 or 100-gallon > tank.  The > > > ten-gallon tank is > > > probably the hardest working tank in the Aquarium > Hobby > > > today.  Right now > > > you can get an entire new kit at Wal-Mart for > under $50 > > > bucks that includes > > > lights, filter everything you need.  Better > yet they are > > > listed on > > > Craigslist even cheaper! > > > > > > Bill > > > > > > --- On Fri, 11/27/09, sevenspringss@... > > > <sevenspringss@...> > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > From: sevenspringss@... > > > <sevenspringss@...> > > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Catching Siamese Algae > Eaters > > > continued > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > > Date: Friday, November 27, 2009, 6:59 AM > > > > > > > > > Lainey,  In following this thread between > you and Lenny, > > > you would do well > > > to follow all of his advice on this.  I > might add, that if > > > you're not > > > successful in catching all the SAE's in one day, > that you > > > loosely rest the > > > bucket's cover on top to help prevent any fish > from jumping > > > overnight.  Be > > > sure to > > > have your car properly heated when you transport > them. > > > > > > > > > You did mention that getting a second 10 gallon > gallon tank > > > "for all of > > > this" would seem wasteful, but a hobbyist should > have an > > > extra tank on hand > > > anyway as a quarantine (or possibly a hospital) > tank, at > > > least for new fish > > > introductions.  Even a 5 gallon tank for > this purpose > > > would be better than > > > nothing -- if your space is limited -- but the > present > > > prices of the 5 > > > gallon > > > and 10 gallon tanks are about the same right now, > so you > > > might as well get > > > the > > > larger one, should you decide on one. > > > > > > Back to catching them, it's good to see that > you've figured > > > out how to get > > > the fish to eat out of the net for easier > catching of them, > > > but I would > > > still recommend having a second net on > hand.  If your > > > first net that the > > > SAE's > > > go into (hopefully) with having some food there > as bait has > > > more or less > > > opaque netting that reduces the fish's ability to > see much > > > beyond it, you > > > might > > > try sneaking this second net off to one side and > to the > > > rear of this first > > > net, to be ready to use it if the fish escapes > the first > > > net. > > > > > > Would only like to add, which you should be aware > of, that > > > all fish secret > > > growth inhibiting hormones at all times, from the > time > > > they're > > > free-swimming.  As long as you've kept up > with adequate > > > water changing, > > > these hormones > > > should not have concentrated enough to cause any > stunting, > > > but this will > > > always be an issue of more inattentive > hobbyists.  Ray > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ------------------------------------ > > > > > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it > when > > > replying, Thank You. > > > > ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> > > > ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , > .·´¯`·..><((((º> > > > PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT > that is > > > NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the > TOPIC of > > > the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE > -> i.e. "new > > > subject (was re: old subject)" <- > > > > <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. > > > , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. > > > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this > matter. > > > > > > If you do not want all of the groups emails, > instead of > > > unsubscribing, you can change your delivery > option by > > > clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the home > page. > > > > > > Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com > > > to receive the digest, which includes up to 25 > posts at a > > > time in a single email > > > > > > Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com > > > for the No E-Mail option where you will still be > able to > > > read messages on the group and post replies. > > > > > > Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com > > > to receive individual e-mails.Yahoo! Groups > Links > > > > > > > > >     AquaticLife-fullfeatured@yahoogroups.com > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > ------------------------------------ > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when > replying, Thank You. > ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> > ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> > PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is > NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of > the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new > subject (was re: old subject)" <- > <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. > , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. > > If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of > unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by > clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the home page.  > > Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com > to receive the digest, which includes up to 25 posts at a > time in a single email > > Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com > for the No E-Mail option where you will still be able to > read messages on the group and post replies. > > Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com > to receive individual e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links > > >     AquaticLife-fullfeatured@yahoogroups.com > > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 44779	From: sevenspringss@wmconnect.com	Date: 11/27/2009
Subject: Re: Drs Foster & Smith, was: Catching Siamese Algae Eaters cont'd

Bill, Your pricing here just reminded me of another Topic that I was meaning to post, which I'll do right now. I just received my last Drs Foster and Smith earlier this week and they've slashed their normal Standard Ground Shipping Rate (example: normal $9.99 shipping charge for up to a $60 order) to $5.99 on ALL products to the lower 48 States. I take this to mean that this should apply to any item, regardless of size or cost, although there is a weight restriction to this -- which you need to inquire about. I used the lowest Standard Rate just as an example of what I'm referring to (not Express shipping), but since they state ALL products, it would appear that even a $499 G6 Fluval filter (normally $18.99 shipping for anything costing over $18.99) should ship for $5.99 unless it's considered over their weight restriction for this offer. The offer stands until December 31, 2009. Ray [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 44780	From: sevenspringss@wmconnect.com	Date: 11/27/2009
Subject: Re: Catching Siamese Algae Eaters continued

Lainey, Your spare 10g, now in use by some baby guppies, is what happens to all of our "spare" tanks. You always need more tanks just for these contingencies. This is why you (and many of the rest of us) are diagnosed as having MTS -- Multi Tank Syndrome -- and so, this hobby multiplies for us when it was never intended to. Ray [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 44781	From: sevenspringss@wmconnect.com	Date: 11/27/2009
Subject: Re: Catching Siamese Algae Eaters continued

OOPS, Looks like I've already spilled the beans to her on MTS, guys -- but she was heading in that direction anyway <g>. Ray [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 44782	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 11/27/2009
Subject: Re: Catching Siamese Algae Eaters continued

I got my walmart 10 gallon kit for less than 30 dollars at walmart myself, but perhaps they were on sale at the time. Amber bill 1433 wrote: > > Hi Lainey, > > Besides all the reasons Ray has just given you, there is something else > to consider. Keeping a 10-gallon tank up and running with a good > sponge filter and heater just makes good sense if your keeping fish at > all. > > Why? Money! Sooner to later our little friends get sick or beaten up by > a tank bully. If you will notice, many over the counter med's are > automatically dosed out for 10 or 5 gallons. That's quite a cost > factor if you're trying to dose a 55 or 100-gallon tank. The > ten-gallon tank is probably the hardest working tank in the Aquarium > Hobby today. Right now you can get an entire new kit at Wal-Mart for > under $50 bucks that includes lights, filter everything you need. > Better yet they are listed on Craigslist even cheaper! > > Bill > > --- On Fri, 11/27/09, sevenspringss@... > <mailto:sevenspringss%40wmconnect.com> <sevenspringss@... > <mailto:sevenspringss%40wmconnect.com>> wrote: > > From: sevenspringss@... > <mailto:sevenspringss%40wmconnect.com> <sevenspringss@... > <mailto:sevenspringss%40wmconnect.com>> > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Catching Siamese Algae Eaters continued > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Date: Friday, November 27, 2009, 6:59 AM > > Lainey, In following this thread between you and Lenny, you would do well > to follow all of his advice on this. I might add, that if you're not > successful in catching all the SAE's in one day, that you loosely rest > the > bucket's cover on top to help prevent any fish from jumping overnight. > Be sure to > have your car properly heated when you transport them. > > You did mention that getting a second 10 gallon gallon tank "for all of > this" would seem wasteful, but a hobbyist should have an extra tank on > hand > anyway as a quarantine (or possibly a hospital) tank, at least for new > fish > introductions. Even a 5 gallon tank for this purpose would be better than > nothing -- if your space is limited -- but the present prices of the 5 > gallon > and 10 gallon tanks are about the same right now, so you might as well > get the > larger one, should you decide on one. > > Back to catching them, it's good to see that you've figured out how to > get > the fish to eat out of the net for easier catching of them, but I would > still recommend having a second net on hand. If your first net that > the SAE's > go into (hopefully) with having some food there as bait has more or less > opaque netting that reduces the fish's ability to see much beyond it, > you might > try sneaking this second net off to one side and to the rear of this > first > net, to be ready to use it if the fish escapes the first net. > > Would only like to add, which you should be aware of, that all fish > secret > growth inhibiting hormones at all times, from the time they're > free-swimming. As long as you've kept up with adequate water changing, > these hormones > should not have concentrated enough to cause any stunting, but this will > always be an issue of more inattentive hobbyists. Ray > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > ------------------------------------ > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. > ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> > PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT > important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message > MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- > <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. > > If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of unsubscribing, > you can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My > Membership" on the home page. > > Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:aquaticlife-digest%40yahoogroups.com> to receive the digest, > which includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email > > Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:aquaticlife-nomail%40yahoogroups.com> for the No E-Mail option > where you will still be able to read messages on the group and post > replies. > > Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:aquaticlife-normal%40yahoogroups.com> to receive individual > e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 44783	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 11/27/2009
Subject: Re: Update on how my betta is doing

Keep an eye on your betta, traveling could have stressed him out enough to get him sick if the temps in his travel container fluccuated too much. You might be overfeeding him but it's hard to tell without seeing how much food you give him. I feed mine only once a day max, half the time he ignores it when I first feed him, seems to prefer sinking foods to floating ones. If you are only feeding a tiny amount it should be fine to feed him twice a day, just make sure your family knows how much to feed him before you go back to school. 69 degrees is a little on the cool side for a betta, can you put him near a room light to see if it keeps his tank warmer (like next to a table light)? I'm not sure if they recognize different colors or not, but I do notice that fish ignore lighter colored foods compared to darker colored foods, perhaps he notices that one jar is a darker color and the other is lighter (shades of grey)? Amber Kathy wrote: > > Hi all, > Pisces is doing well--we've come to my parents house for Thanksgiving, > and since I have only two weeks between Thanksgiving and winter break, > he will be staying with my parents for those two weeks. Hopefully > they'll get his feeding schedule right--he eats twice a day, and I > alternate giving him bloodworms and Bettamin, so one day he'll eat > bloodworms, the next he'll eat the flakes. I try to feed him only when > the room is well-lit, which I'm sure that one of my family members > will know to do. And my dad might be getting me some foreceps to use > for the bloodworms so that I don't develop an allergy. > I got the live plants put in a while back, and he seems to like them > better than the fake one I had. Walmart only had plastic plants, so I > got the softest one I could find. > Pisces seems ok with the fact that my parents keep the house about > seven degrees cooler than my suitemates keep our suite. His water is a > little on the cool side here (69 degrees), but he seems to be doing > well, he's still active. He was not happy being transported though, at > first he freaked out but by the time we got him home he was > overwhelmed and sluggish. It didn't help that we were travelling in > subfreezing weather. > Oh yeah. Can bettas see color? Are they smart enough to learn what > different colors mean? I'm wondering cause Pisces seems to get more > excited for the blue jar of bloodworms than for the yellow jar of flakes. > -Kathy > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 44784	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 11/27/2009
Subject: Re: Catching Siamese Algae Eaters continued

Usually, stunting will affect almost all the fish, although I'm sure there can be exceptions. In your case, it could be a case of dominant fish getting more food than the submissive fish, which also results in stunting to the submissive fish. This happens when mixing fish that cannot compete equally for food also, such as, mixing fancy goldfish with long-bodied goldfish. The fancy goldfish will not be able to compete for food so it's important to make sure that they do get enough food by establishing two feeding areas, one for the long bodied fish and one for the round-bodied fish. This isn't easy to do which is why it's better to just not mix them. There are also harassment issues during spawning periods where a round-bodied female would be possibly harassed to death by long-bodied males. Even the round-bodied males can be a chore for the females. In the case of your cichlids, this is very common in that family of fish where the male will be much larger than the female. There may be exceptions but if you look at reputable profiles on your fish, like from Mongabay.com or FishBase.org or other reputable sites, they will usually give the expected adult size for both the male and female. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Lainey Alexander Sent: Friday, November 27, 2009 10:28 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Catching Siamese Algae Eaters continued Something strange that I have noticed is that some of my fish have grown a great deal, like tripled in size, while others of the same species have not. So I have rummy nosed tetras who are full grown and some that are half-full grown. Would this be the hormone issue, or just an issue of feeding? I would have thought if it were the hormone issue that none of them would be full-grown. I also have a nice pair of blue rams with an ever-growing male and a female who is only half his size. I see her eating plenty at every feeding...Ideas for why this would be? Thanks very much, Lainey http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com On Nov 27, 2009, at 6:59 AM, sevenspringss@... wrote: > Would only like to add, which you should be aware of, that all fish > secret growth inhibiting hormones at all times, from the time they're > free-swimming. As long as you've kept up with adequate water changing, > these hormones should not have concentrated enough to cause any > stunting, but this will always be an issue of more inattentive > hobbyists. Ray

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 44785	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 11/27/2009
Subject: Re: Catching Siamese Algae Eaters continued

The bucket was mainly for transporting the SAE's to the LFS... at least I think that was the only plan for it. Of course, they could be used as temporary housing for a sick fish or newborn fry as well. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of bill 1433 Sent: Friday, November 27, 2009 2:12 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Catching Siamese Algae Eaters continued Lainey, Just speaking...........if you start fooling around with 5-gallon buckets, air-stones and what not, wouldn't it be easier to use have the 10-gallon heater and all and then your covered? Bill --- On Fri, 11/27/09, Lainey Alexander <lainealex@...> wrote: > From: Lainey Alexander <lainealex@...> > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Catching Siamese Algae Eaters continued > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Date: Friday, November 27, 2009, 3:05 PM I bought a spare 10g early on > and right now it is "in use" by some baby guppies. This is why I don't > really want another one, but will purchase one if necessary. > > Thanks, > > Lainey > http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com > > On Nov 27, 2009, at 3:02 PM, bill 1433 wrote: > > > Hi Lainey, > > > > Besides all the reasons Ray has just given you, there > is something > > else > > to consider.  Keeping a 10-gallon tank up and > running with a good > > sponge filter and heater just makes good sense if your > keeping fish > > at all. > > > > Why?  Money!  Sooner to later our little > friends get sick or beaten > > up by > > a tank bully.  If you will notice, many over the > counter med's are > > automatically dosed out for 10 or 5 gallons. > That's quite a cost > > factor if you're trying to dose a 55 or 100-gallon > tank.  The ten- > > gallon tank is probably the hardest working tank in > the Aquarium > > Hobby today.  Right now you can get an entire new > kit at Wal-Mart > > for under $50 bucks that includes lights, filter > everything you > > need.  Better yet they are listed on Craigslist > even cheaper! > > > > Bill > > > > --- On Fri, 11/27/09, sevenspringss@... > > > <sevenspringss@...> > wrote: > > > > From: sevenspringss@... > <sevenspringss@...> > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Catching Siamese Algae > Eaters continued > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > Date: Friday, November 27, 2009, 6:59 AM > > > > Lainey,  In following this thread between you and > Lenny, you would > > do well > > to follow all of his advice on this.  I might > add, that if you're not > > successful in catching all the SAE's in one day, that > you loosely > > rest the > > bucket's cover on top to help prevent any fish from > jumping > > overnight.  Be sure to > > have your car properly heated when you transport > them. > > > > You did mention that getting a second 10 gallon gallon > tank "for > > all of > > this" would seem wasteful, but a hobbyist should have > an extra tank > > on hand > > anyway as a quarantine (or possibly a hospital) tank, > at least for > > new fish > > introductions.  Even a 5 gallon tank for this > purpose would be > > better than > > nothing -- if your space is limited -- but the present > prices of > > the 5 gallon > > and 10 gallon tanks are about the same right now, so > you might as > > well get the > > larger one, should you decide on one. > > > > Back to catching them, it's good to see that you've > figured out how > > to get > > the fish to eat out of the net for easier catching of > them, but I > > would > > still recommend having a second net on hand.  If > your first net > > that the SAE's > > go into (hopefully) with having some food there as > bait has more or > > less > > opaque netting that reduces the fish's ability to see > much beyond > > it, you might > > try sneaking this second net off to one side and to > the rear of > > this first > > net, to be ready to use it if the fish escapes the > first net. > > > > Would only like to add, which you should be aware of, > that all fish > > secret > > growth inhibiting hormones at all times, from the time > they're > > free-swimming.  As long as you've kept up with > adequate water > > changing, these hormones > > should not have concentrated enough to cause any > stunting, but this > > will > > always be an issue of more inattentive > hobbyists.  Ray

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 44786	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 11/27/2009
Subject: Re: Update on how my betta is doing

Seven degrees is a big drop in one day but hopefully he'll be OK. It's best to keep their water temps consistent and within 1-2F per day. If a fish is going to be changed from the high 70's to the high 60's, it should be done at 1-2F per day and spread out over 5-10 days. Of course, for fish that live outside in ponds, etc., they are use to this big change in temperature from daytime to nighttime every day so it's not a stressor for them but for our normal tropical fish that live at a consistent temperature most of their lives, abruptly changing their temperature could be a major shock and cause health issues. Do you see any growth from your plants? If not, you might want them to get a little more daylight from the window without getting any actual direct sunlight (like sunbeam type light) as that could heat up the water, either too much or just make the dropping temperature that much more at night. Another thing you could do, if you can afford it and it's available, is get a small 25 watt heater to put in his tank while he's at your parents and set it at the same temp that you keep him in at your college dorm/suite. Then you would only have to worry about keeping his water temp consistent during the trip which could be done by putting his tank inside of a styrofoam ice chest or even inside of a box with newspaper stuffed around the 4G bowl... and keeping the car's interior temperature close to your dorm temp and keeping the bowl away from the direct hot air coming from the car's vents. I'm not sure if they see colors the same way we do but they can certainly distinguish shades like light and dark. This has pretty much been proven, at least anecdotally, with artificial fishing lures as identical sized and shaped worms (or other lures) will have different effectiveness based on the color of the worm. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Kathy Sent: Friday, November 27, 2009 12:34 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Update on how my betta is doing Hi all, Pisces is doing well--we've come to my parents house for Thanksgiving, and since I have only two weeks between Thanksgiving and winter break, he will be staying with my parents for those two weeks. Hopefully they'll get his feeding schedule right--he eats twice a day, and I alternate giving him bloodworms and Bettamin, so one day he'll eat bloodworms, the next he'll eat the flakes. I try to feed him only when the room is well-lit, which I'm sure that one of my family members will know to do. And my dad might be getting me some foreceps to use for the bloodworms so that I don't develop an allergy. I got the live plants put in a while back, and he seems to like them better than the fake one I had. Walmart only had plastic plants, so I got the softest one I could find. Pisces seems ok with the fact that my parents keep the house about seven degrees cooler than my suitemates keep our suite. His water is a little on the cool side here (69 degrees), but he seems to be doing well, he's still active. He was not happy being transported though, at first he freaked out but by the time we got him home he was overwhelmed and sluggish. It didn't help that we were travelling in subfreezing weather. Oh yeah. Can bettas see color? Are they smart enough to learn what different colors mean? I'm wondering cause Pisces seems to get more excited for the blue jar of bloodworms than for the yellow jar of flakes. -Kathy

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 44787	From: robbrouse	Date: 11/28/2009
Subject: Ammonia Calculator - Paging Lenny

A while back you posted or email me a link for an Ammonia Calculator. Getting ready to start a 20 gallon tank and was hoping to get a good starting dose to began with. Robb from Utah

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 44788	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 11/28/2009
Subject: Re: Ammonia Calculator - Paging Lenny

Sorry it took so long. My pager never went off... oh yeah... I forgot, I haven't carried a pager since cell phones became common place. ;-) Bottom of this page... http://www.fishforums.net/aquarium-calculator.htm Lots of other useful calculators as well. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of robbrouse Sent: Saturday, November 28, 2009 2:55 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Ammonia Calculator - Paging Lenny A while back you posted or email me a link for an Ammonia Calculator. Getting ready to start a 20 gallon tank and was hoping to get a good starting dose to began with. Robb from Utah

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 44789	From: bill 1433	Date: 11/28/2009
Subject: Re: Ammonia Calculator - Paging Lenny

Thanks for the re-post Len!  I missed this one the first time around.   Bill --- On Sat, 11/28/09, Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@...> wrote: From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@...> Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Ammonia Calculator - Paging Lenny To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Date: Saturday, November 28, 2009, 5:50 PM Sorry it took so long.  My pager never went off... oh yeah... I forgot, I haven't carried a pager since cell phones became common place. ;-) Bottom of this page... http://www.fishforums.net/aquarium-calculator.htm Lots of other useful calculators as well. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of robbrouse Sent: Saturday, November 28, 2009 2:55 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Ammonia Calculator - Paging Lenny A while back you posted or email me a link for an Ammonia Calculator. Getting ready to start a 20 gallon tank and was hoping to get a good starting dose to began with. Robb from Utah ------------------------------------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the home page.  Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com to receive the digest, which includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com for the No E-Mail option where you will still be able to read messages on the group and post replies. Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com to receive individual e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 44790	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 11/28/2009
Subject: Re: Ammonia Calculator - Paging Lenny

Oh yeah, I meant to add. For re-dosing, as the cycle takes off and your ammonia drops down and you want to top it back off to 5.0ppm, it's around 1 drop per gallon to raise the ammonia by 1.0ppm. With your 20G tank, it makes it nice and simple since there are 20 drops in a milliliter so you can use 1ml to raise the ammonia around 1.0ppm in your 20G tank. Drops can range in size when using our rudimentary dropper tools so you'll often see "3-5 drops per gallon" to raise the ammonia to around 5.0ppm. Using the middle number, 4 drops per gallon, and if the dropper is accurate, that would be the correct number to use. A drop is supposed to be 0.5ml so there would be 20 drops in a milliliter, which is why you'll see that it takes around 4.0ml (3.98 according to the calculator) to raise the ammonia level to 5.0ppm in a 20G tank. Remember that if you go over 5.0ppm, do a PWC by the necessary percentage to lower it back down to between 4-5ppm. OTHER NOTES - Increase the temperature to the low to mid-80's and add an air stone or increase surface agitation using your filter's returning water flow and you'll get the nitrifying bacteria growing even faster. Seed your filter media with some fresh squeezed "juice" from a cycled filter or rubbing the new filter on the "dirty" cycled filter and that will further speed up your fishless cycling. The fastest I've seen is about 7-10 days... but it could be instantly if enough cycled filter media is added from the start. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of robbrouse Sent: Saturday, November 28, 2009 2:55 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Ammonia Calculator - Paging Lenny A while back you posted or email me a link for an Ammonia Calculator. Getting ready to start a 20 gallon tank and was hoping to get a good starting dose to began with. Robb from Utah

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 44791	From: Iksnip@aol.com	Date: 11/29/2009
Subject: Proper Substrate for Planted Tanks

Hi Everyone, I am starting a new 75 g tank with fish and plants. Naturally amazon swords and Vallisneria spercies will be in there. I am wondering what is the best substrate to use to foster their growth. In the past, I have used some white sand with those plant chemicals but the plants always die in the end. So, I was hoping someone could recommend a specific substrate and explain what that substrate offers. thanks, Ken [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 44792	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 11/29/2009
Subject: Re: Proper Substrate for Planted Tanks

I went the cheaper route for my planted tanks, I used a Walstad setup. http://thegab.org/Plants/setting-up-a-walstad-natural-planted-tank.html Above are instructions on how to do this type of setup, but you want lower lighting (1-2 watts per gallon) and you will want easy to care for plants. If you want a fancy setup with harder to care for plants and using CO2 you will want to get a substrate like fluorite (I have never used it so not sure how good it works, but I've heard a lot of good stuff about it), which has added fertilizers in the substrate. I honestly like the Walstad method, but I do water changes more often than her site recommends (basically when the fish start acting oddly, or on a weekly basis whichever is first). And I clean my filters as well (which her site says is not really needed). Amber Iksnip@... wrote: > > > Hi Everyone, > > I am starting a new 75 g tank with fish and plants. Naturally amazon > swords and Vallisneria spercies will be in there. I am wondering what > is the > best substrate to use to foster their growth. In the past, I have used > some > white sand with those plant chemicals but the plants always die in the > end. > So, I was hoping someone could recommend a specific substrate and explain > what that substrate offers. > > thanks, > > Ken > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 44793	From: pam andress	Date: 11/29/2009
Subject: Re: Proper Substrate for Planted Tanks

I personally like gravel and BBB other wise known as Baileys Better Bottom is great. You can get it on Aquabid.com or if interested, I can look up the info for you. Pam > > Hi Everyone, > > > > I am starting a new 75 g tank with fish and plants. Naturally amazon > > swords and Vallisneria spercies will be in there. I am wondering what > > is the > > best substrate to use to foster their growth. In the past, I have used > > some > > white sand with those plant chemicals but the plants always die in the > > end. > > So, I was hoping someone could recommend a specific substrate and explain > > what that substrate offers. > > > > thanks, > > > > Ken > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > > > > ------------------------------------ > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. > ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> > PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- > <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. > > If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the home page. > > Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com to receive the digest, which includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email > > Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com for the No E-Mail option where you will still be able to read messages on the group and post replies. > > Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com to receive individual e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 44794	From: Donna Ransome	Date: 11/29/2009
Subject: Re: Proper Substrate for Planted Tanks

I like Fluorite but it does not negate the need for fertilizers. _____ From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Iksnip@... Sent: Sunday, November 29, 2009 1:46 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Proper Substrate for Planted Tanks Hi Everyone, I am starting a new 75 g tank with fish and plants. Naturally amazon swords and Vallisneria spercies will be in there. I am wondering what is the best substrate to use to foster their growth. In the past, I have used some white sand with those plant chemicals but the plants always die in the end. So, I was hoping someone could recommend a specific substrate and explain what that substrate offers. thanks, Ken [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 44795	From: harry perry	Date: 11/29/2009
Subject: Re: Proper Substrate for Planted Tanks/Ken

"but the plants always die in the end". It's normally the lighting and lack of fertilizer not the substrate that causes plants to die eventually. Harry --- On Sun, 11/29/09, Donna Ransome <djransome@...> wrote: From: Donna Ransome <djransome@...> Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Proper Substrate for Planted Tanks To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Date: Sunday, November 29, 2009, 3:33 PM   I like Fluorite but it does not negate the need for fertilizers. _____ From: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com [mailto:AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com] On Behalf Of Iksnip@... Sent: Sunday, November 29, 2009 1:46 PM To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com Subject: [AquaticLife] Proper Substrate for Planted Tanks Hi Everyone, I am starting a new 75 g tank with fish and plants. Naturally amazon swords and Vallisneria spercies will be in there. I am wondering what is the best substrate to use to foster their growth. In the past, I have used some white sand with those plant chemicals but the plants always die in the end. So, I was hoping someone could recommend a specific substrate and explain what that substrate offers. thanks, Ken [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 44796	From: Lainey Alexander	Date: 11/29/2009
Subject: Guppy fry

I have fourteen baby blue grass guppies that are about three weeks old. I'm trying to plan my next step as right now they are in a 10g grow out tank with just some shrimp. If, when they are big enough, I put them in with adult fish, I don't know how they will get enough to eat? Wouldn't I have to overfeed the adults in order to get enough food to the fry? In which case, do I have to wait several months with them in the 10g? I'd rather not have to do that. Thanks for feedback... Lainey http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 44797	From: Cheryl Ellison	Date: 11/29/2009
Subject: Re: Guppy fry

I have baby guppies and baby platy's in my 90 gallon along with all of the adult fish and they seem to be thriving without any special food. The guppies are still in hiding, but the platy's have come out and joined the big fish they are just under a cm long, I have counted six of them. I am afraid I am going to be overrun with guppies and was hoping more of them would get eaten I keep seeing them pop out of hiding for a moment, my tank is so heavily planted and I have walnut size rocks instead of gravel so they just hide in there. I don't know what I am going to do when my tank gets too full, anyway I wouldn't worry about feeding them, they find food somehow. Cheryl from Seattle http://cherylshtuff.blogspot.com/ ----- Original Message ----- From: Lainey Alexander To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Sunday, November 29, 2009 7:56 PM Subject: [AquaticLife] Guppy fry I have fourteen baby blue grass guppies that are about three weeks old. I'm trying to plan my next step as right now they are in a 10g grow out tank with just some shrimp. If, when they are big enough, I put them in with adult fish, I don't know how they will get enough to eat? Wouldn't I have to overfeed the adults in order to get enough food to the fry? In which case, do I have to wait several months with them in the 10g? I'd rather not have to do that. Thanks for feedback... Lainey http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 44798	From: sevenspringss@wmconnect.com	Date: 11/30/2009
Subject: Re: Proper Substrate for Planted Tanks/Ken

I've found that gravel, rather than sand, will help promote a better root system whereas sand will compact too much to allow for good root growth. Please elaborate more on the "plant chemicals" you've used as fertilizers, and tell use if they were added to the water column as liquid or to the substrate as a solid. What do you use as lighting and how long do you have it on, per day. Ray [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 44799	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 11/30/2009
Subject: Dosing 55 gallon with flourish excel

I've been dosing my 55 gallon community fish, shrimp, and mystery snail tank with flourish excel for about a week now. I will probably lose a few plants from using the excel (anacharis and spiraling val's to name a couple), but I'm hoping it will get rid of my black beard algae. I'm considering getting a CO2 setup for the 125 gallon tank, but it will depend on finances this month. So far the BBA seems unaffected but the "hair algae" that I have is starting to melt, so at least something is happening ;) LOL. Should I continue trimming my plants like I normally do during PWC's? The guppy grass tends to take over if I don't trim it every now and then, and then none of the lower plants get any light because the guppy grass is so thick. Amber

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 44800	From: amphibian_ca	Date: 11/30/2009
Subject: Re: Proper Substrate for Planted Tanks

I have always favoured small-grain gravel, for more than 15 years. In a dark or natural colour. Plants primarily root feeders like swords and Vallisneria will benefit from substrate fertilizer tabs or sticks. I've had better success doing this than using enriched substrates. Byron. --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, Iksnip@... wrote: > > > Hi Everyone, > > I am starting a new 75 g tank with fish and plants. Naturally amazon > swords and Vallisneria spercies will be in there. I am wondering what is the > best substrate to use to foster their growth. In the past, I have used some > white sand with those plant chemicals but the plants always die in the end. > So, I was hoping someone could recommend a specific substrate and explain > what that substrate offers. > > thanks, > > Ken > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 44801	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 11/30/2009
Subject: Re: Dosing 55 gallon with flourish excel

You should/could easily move the Anacharis to another tank during your dosing. The Valisneria would be more difficult but could possibly be moved as well if you want to try and save some of it, at least. Doesn't it take overdosing Excel to kill algae??? Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Amber Berglund Sent: Monday, November 30, 2009 4:49 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Dosing 55 gallon with flourish excel I've been dosing my 55 gallon community fish, shrimp, and mystery snail tank with flourish excel for about a week now. I will probably lose a few plants from using the excel (anacharis and spiraling val's to name a couple), but I'm hoping it will get rid of my black beard algae. I'm considering getting a CO2 setup for the 125 gallon tank, but it will depend on finances this month. So far the BBA seems unaffected but the "hair algae" that I have is starting to melt, so at least something is happening ;) LOL. Should I continue trimming my plants like I normally do during PWC's? The guppy grass tends to take over if I don't trim it every now and then, and then none of the lower plants get any light because the guppy grass is so thick. Amber

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 44802	From: harry perry	Date: 11/30/2009
Subject: Re: Dosing 55 gallon with flourish excel/Amber, another idea.

In the past when I thought algae was taking over I did a total black out for three days. No lights what so ever and I wrapped the tank with black plastic trash bags. It doesn't hurt the fish and the plants suffer just a little. The algae was effected dramatically. Then I used the three days to research what I was doing wrong and create a battle plan. It worked for me. The algae was set back enough for the plants to get ahead of it nutrient wise. Black beard algae is the toughest to get rid of. I would do a involved research on the net and go from there. You might want to get a phosphate test kit/bottle. Also there are phosphate "pillows" that you can put into your filter or tank that will absorb excess phosphates. Phosphate is algae food. A good source of phosphate is fish food. A good way to grow algae is to feed your fish the way the container advises. Harry --- On Mon, 11/30/09, Amber Berglund <arberglund@...> wrote: From: Amber Berglund <arberglund@...> Subject: [AquaticLife] Dosing 55 gallon with flourish excel To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Date: Monday, November 30, 2009, 5:49 PM   I've been dosing my 55 gallon community fish, shrimp, and mystery snail tank with flourish excel for about a week now. I will probably lose a few plants from using the excel (anacharis and spiraling val's to name a couple), but I'm hoping it will get rid of my black beard algae. I'm considering getting a CO2 setup for the 125 gallon tank, but it will depend on finances this month. So far the BBA seems unaffected but the "hair algae" that I have is starting to melt, so at least something is happening ;) LOL. Should I continue trimming my plants like I normally do during PWC's? The guppy grass tends to take over if I don't trim it every now and then, and then none of the lower plants get any light because the guppy grass is so thick. Amber [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 44803	From: N Taweel	Date: 11/30/2009
Subject: Betta?

Hi, Do Bettas usually bite the other fish's tails? If yes, is there anything to do other than isolating the betta in its own tank? I didn't see him biting or chasing, but since I got him it seems like the other fish are having torn tails! Noura [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 44804	From: bill 1433	Date: 11/30/2009
Subject: Re: Dosing 55 gallon with flourish excel

Hi Amber,    Please keep us posted on this including dosage and how often. I for one have an interest in Black Algae.   Bill --- On Mon, 11/30/09, Amber Berglund <arberglund@...> wrote: From: Amber Berglund <arberglund@...> Subject: [AquaticLife] Dosing 55 gallon with flourish excel To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Date: Monday, November 30, 2009, 5:49 PM I've been dosing my 55 gallon community fish, shrimp, and mystery snail tank with flourish excel for about a week now. I will probably lose a few plants from using the excel (anacharis and spiraling val's to name a couple), but I'm hoping it will get rid of my black beard algae. I'm considering getting a CO2 setup for the 125 gallon tank, but it will depend on finances this month. So far the BBA seems unaffected but the "hair algae" that I have is starting to melt, so at least something is happening ;) LOL. Should I continue trimming my plants like I normally do during PWC's? The guppy grass tends to take over if I don't trim it every now and then, and then none of the lower plants get any light because the guppy grass is so thick. Amber ------------------------------------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the home page.  Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com to receive the digest, which includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com for the No E-Mail option where you will still be able to read messages on the group and post replies. Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com to receive individual e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 44805	From: harry perry	Date: 11/30/2009
Subject: Black Beard Algae

I know when you do a Google search the first page talks a lot about Co2 injection. However excess phosphates are the main cause please read this. http://www.csd.net/~cgadd/aqua/art_plant_algae.htm We create a "catch 22" situation in our tanks. We eliminate excess nitrates by frequent water changes. The plants use up all the nitrates left and their growth slows making phosphates available for the dreaded BBA. The plants need more nitrates. This is a game of balance. What do your plants need in the form of nutrients?. Nutrients being fish waste, light, extra fertilizer. If the plants grow too fast for the amount of nutrients that also creates a problem that the algae family loves  The reason why it is hard to rid our tanks of algae is because the balance is not a simple one, but it can be done. If you have BBA I would strongly suggest testing for excess phosphates. When I had it and tested the numbers were off the chart. I brought the phosphates down by putting a  phosphate pillow in my filter, cheap, then I carefully brought the tank back into balance by cutting back on fish food, putting my lights on a timer, feeding my plants. Watching the plant growth carefully. By carefully I mean observing new growth. Also when leaves are suppose to be green the condition and the color of the leaves will tell you what the plant needs. Just Google it. With keeping a planted tank things aren't always what they appear to be. Research is the answer. Harry [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 44806	From: Donna Ransome	Date: 11/30/2009
Subject: Re: Black Beard Algae

I agree it’s a game of balance. But I have BBA and zero phosphates. Only in my mbuna tank however, the planted tanks have no BBA. _____ From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of harry perry Sent: Monday, November 30, 2009 7:40 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Black Beard Algae I know when you do a Google search the first page talks a lot about Co2 injection. However excess phosphates are the main cause please read this. http://www.csd <http://www.csd.net/~cgadd/aqua/art_plant_algae.htm> net/~cgadd/aqua/art_plant_algae.htm We create a "catch 22" situation in our tanks. We eliminate excess nitrates by frequent water changes. The plants use up all the nitrates left and their growth slows making phosphates available for the dreaded BBA. The plants need more nitrates. This is a game of balance. What do your plants need in the form of nutrients?. Nutrients being fish waste, light, extra fertilizer. If the plants grow too fast for the amount of nutrients that also creates a problem that the algae family loves The reason why it is hard to rid our tanks of algae is because the balance is not a simple one, but it can be done. If you have BBA I would strongly suggest testing for excess phosphates. When I had it and tested the numbers were off the chart. I brought the phosphates down by putting a phosphate pillow in my filter, cheap, then I carefully brought the tank back into balance by cutting back on fish food, putting my lights on a timer, feeding my plants. Watching the plant growth carefully. By carefully I mean observing new growth. Also when leaves are suppose to be green the condition and the color of the leaves will tell you what the plant needs. Just Google it. With keeping a planted tank things aren't always what they appear to be. Research is the answer. Harry [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 44807	From: Lainey Alexander	Date: 11/30/2009
Subject: Re: Betta?

Hi Noura - I have a male betta that I wanted to place in a community tank but he was too aggressive and damaged multiple fins. I read online that while some bettas will co-habitate without aggression, others will become too aggressive to be kept with other fish. I have mine in a five gallon aquarium with a little heater, and I change his water every other day about 25 percent. He is extremely happy now, much happier than when he was in with other fish. His demeanor is active but mellow and very inquisitive. He has rocks, substrate, hornwort and some ground cover plants. He likes to burrow underneath moss balls. Lainey http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com On Nov 30, 2009, at 6:24 PM, N Taweel wrote: > Hi, > Do Bettas usually bite the other fish's tails? If yes, is there > anything to do other than isolating the betta in its own tank? I > didn't see him biting or chasing, but since I got him it seems like > the other fish are having torn tails! > > Noura > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 44808	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 11/30/2009
Subject: Re: Betta?

They will be more likely to go after other fish with longer flowing fins. They usually can't catch fish with normal finnage as they are usually much faster than fish with longer flowing finnage... but the Betta might get a lucky bite now and then. Here's a snip from my blog article about "10 Gallon Tank Stocking Suggestions", http://goldlenny.blogspot.com/2007/03/haileys-10-gallon-tank-stocking-list.h tml, which has a section about Betta's and compatible tankmates. *Bettas can be particularly tricky to keep with other fish, so I thought it best to elaborate on the subject of proper tankmates for bettas. Some good tankmates for bettas include corydoras, otocinclus, small, peaceful tetras and rasboras like the ones on this list (some others may not be appropriate), kuhli loaches, pencilfish, snails, African dwarf frogs (only one in a 10 gallon), and occasionally shrimp, if the betta doesn't eat them. Avoid fish of the same color or shape (especially with long fins), fast swimmers (which I didn't put on the list anyway because they don't do well in 10 gallon tanks), labyrinth fish, or fish which occupy the top of the tank like the betta. This rules out gouramis, guppies, hatchetfish, any species of long finned tetras, and various other fish depending on the color of the betta you choose. (END SNIP) Of course, there are always exceptions. Here's the rest of that article in case you can't open my blog. I don't remember if blogs are blocked or not over there. Hailey's 10 Gallon Tank Stocking List And Suggestions You want to stick to fish that stay under 3 inches and are slow moving or at least not terribly active (that rules out things like tiger barbs...almost all barbs in fact, danios, most rainbows, etc). Schooling fish appropriate for a 10 gallon: (remember to keep schooling fish in groups of 6 or more) neon tetra black neon tetra gold neon tetra green neon tetra ember tetra red eye tetra glowlight tetra silver tip tetra pristella tetra green fire tetra black phantom tetra red phantom tetra cochu's blue tetra blue emperor tetra (Inpaichthys kerri...not to be confused with the emperor tetra, Nematobrycon palmeri) emerald eye rasbora harlequin rasbora black harlequin rasbora golden harlequin rasbora red axelrod rasbora dwarf rasbora one-lined pencilfish black winged hatchetfish marbled hatchetfish threadfin (or featherfin) rainbowfish blue-eye rainbowfish or forktail rainbowfish of the pseudomugil genus (many different kinds...all small schooling fish, but some are semi-aggressive, so research and choose carefully) Semi-schooling fish: (these fish prefer 6 or more, but can be kept with just 2+, though more is always better) cherry barbs (not most other barbs) emperor tetras (Nematobrycon amphiloxus, not the "blue emperor tetra", Inpaichthys kerri) kuhli loaches panda corydora catfish (good scavenger) pygmy corydora catfish (smaller version of the same) otocinclus catfish (good algae eater) Non-schooling fish (so you can have just 1): dwarf gourami (can also be kept one male and two or more females) or betta splendens* or betta imbellis* or betta smaragdina* (never mix the above fish and never keep two males of any in one tank) platy guppy endler (the above three prefer more of their own kind but are alright alone...if you add more than one make sure they are all male or you will have tons of fry being born all the time) Invertebrates and other non-fish tankmates: (these would be good with anything that doesn't get big enough to eat them) amano shrimp (great algae eater) cherry shrimp (good algae eater) blue shrimp (good algae eater) red fronted shrimp (good algae eater) tiger shrimp (good algae eater) bumblebee shrimp (okay algae eater) ghost shrimp (does not eat algae, but can be a help as a scavenger) apple snail mystery snail malaysian trumpet snail (very helpful as a sand sifter to keep anaerobic pockets from developing in sand substrates) ramshorn snail [Note: all snails breed rapidly and can overpopulate a tank quickly if over fed. Keep feeding to just what the fish need...the snails will find enough that the fish miss during feedings to live on] African dwarf frog (not to be confused with the African clawed frog, which will get far too large and aggressive for a 10 gallon tank) Species tank fish (keep only them, with nothing else): dwarf puffers (1 male only, 3-4 females) German blue rams (male/female pair) sparkling gouramis (one male and 1 or more females) licorice gouramis (male/female pair) (the gouramis can be kept in very sedate, peaceful community tanks but do best in species tanks because they are so shy) neolamprologus (aka. 'lamprologus') brevis (male/female pair) neolamprologus (aka. 'lamprologus') multifasciatus (1 male, 2 females) neolamprologus (aka. 'lamprologus') similis (1 male, 2 females) (the three tanganyikan cichlids above must be provided with plenty of small shells that they can fit in, since they are shell dwellers) Remember to try to keep schooling fish in groups of 6 or more...this makes it hard to stock a small tank, but if you get only one school of something you can do it, or if you stick to the tiniest schoolers like ember green neon, or neon tetras, and then add some non-schooling fish like a gourami, platy, betta, etc. *Bettas can be particularly tricky to keep with other fish, so I thought it best to elaborate on the subject of proper tankmates for bettas. Some good tankmates for bettas include corydoras, otocinclus, small, peaceful tetras and rasboras like the ones on this list (some others may not be appropriate), kuhli loaches, pencilfish, snails, African dwarf frogs (only one in a 10 gallon), and occasionally shrimp, if the betta doesn't eat them. Avoid fish of the same color or shape (especially with long fins), fast swimmers (which I didn't put on the list anyway because they don't do well in 10 gallon tanks), labyrinth fish, or fish which occupy the top of the tank like the betta. This rules out gouramis, guppies, hatchetfish, any species of long finned tetras, and various other fish depending on the color of the betta you choose. Recently, a group of freshwater fish classified as nano-fish are becoming available to the hobby. Frank's Aquariums sells a good selection of nano-fish - http://www.franksaquarium.com/nanofish.htm Hope this helps with your 10G stocking ideas. GoldLenny (with a BIG THANKS to Hailey for all of her work compiling this list) Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of N Taweel Sent: Monday, November 30, 2009 5:24 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Betta? Hi, Do Bettas usually bite the other fish's tails? If yes, is there anything to do other than isolating the betta in its own tank? I didn't see him biting or chasing, but since I got him it seems like the other fish are having torn tails! Noura

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 44809	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 11/30/2009
Subject: Re: Dosing 55 gallon with flourish excel/Amber, another idea.

I actually already have a phosphate test kit and the levels have always been very low (or non-existant) when I have tested the numbers, though I admit the last few weeks I haven't tested the phosphates, but I can't see them increasing tremendously if I haven't changed anything except adding flourish excel (which I've been using 1 cap full each day, after the initial high dosage and PWC's). I was hoping to get rid of the black beard algae this way, but I'm not sure how I will do so in the 125 gallon tank. I just wanted to test to see if adding CO2 would actually help to fight off the BBA and let the plants grow faster. Amber harry perry wrote: > > > In the past when I thought algae was taking over I did a total black > out for three days. No lights what so ever and I wrapped the tank with > black plastic trash bags. It doesn't hurt the fish and the plants > suffer just a little. The algae was effected dramatically. Then I used > the three days to research what I was doing wrong and create a battle > plan. It worked for me. The algae was set back enough for the plants > to get ahead of it nutrient wise. > > Black beard algae is the toughest to get rid of. I would do a involved > research on the net and go from there. You might want to get a > phosphate test kit/bottle. Also there are phosphate "pillows" that you > can put into your filter or tank that will absorb excess phosphates. > Phosphate is algae food. A good source of phosphate is fish food. A > good way to grow algae is to feed your fish the way the container advises. > > Harry > > --- On Mon, 11/30/09, Amber Berglund <arberglund@... > <mailto:arberglund%40gmail.com>> wrote: > > From: Amber Berglund <arberglund@... > <mailto:arberglund%40gmail.com>> > Subject: [AquaticLife] Dosing 55 gallon with flourish excel > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Date: Monday, November 30, 2009, 5:49 PM > > > > I've been dosing my 55 gallon community fish, shrimp, and mystery snail > > tank with flourish excel for about a week now. I will probably lose a > > few plants from using the excel (anacharis and spiraling val's to name a > > couple), but I'm hoping it will get rid of my black beard algae. I'm > > considering getting a CO2 setup for the 125 gallon tank, but it will > > depend on finances this month. So far the BBA seems unaffected but the > > "hair algae" that I have is starting to melt, so at least something is > > happening ;) LOL. > > Should I continue trimming my plants like I normally do during PWC's? > > The guppy grass tends to take over if I don't trim it every now and > > then, and then none of the lower plants get any light because the guppy > > grass is so thick. > > Amber > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 44810	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 11/30/2009
Subject: Re: Betta?

I have kept one male betta with community fish in the past, but he didn't seem as active so I moved him to his own 10 gallon tank with 1 african dwarf frog. I've found him occasionally messing (displaying) with the frog, but he doesn't seem to pick on him. Sounds like you just have a very dominant betta, or another fish that looks the same color so the betta is in territorial mode all the time. I have witnessed them picking on guppy's and gourami's for sure, something about the bright colors and the shape of the gourami seems to set them off. They really like to have their own territory in their tank. Amber Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > > They will be more likely to go after other fish with longer flowing fins. > They usually can't catch fish with normal finnage as they are usually much > faster than fish with longer flowing finnage... but the Betta might get a > lucky bite now and then. > > Here's a snip from my blog article about "10 Gallon Tank Stocking > Suggestions", > http://goldlenny.blogspot.com/2007/03/haileys-10-gallon-tank-stocking-list.h > <http://goldlenny.blogspot.com/2007/03/haileys-10-gallon-tank-stocking-list.h> > tml, which has a section about Betta's and compatible tankmates. > > *Bettas can be particularly tricky to keep with other fish, so I > thought it > best to elaborate on the subject of proper tankmates for bettas. Some good > tankmates for bettas include corydoras, otocinclus, small, peaceful tetras > and rasboras like the ones on this list (some others may not be > appropriate), kuhli loaches, pencilfish, snails, African dwarf frogs (only > one in a 10 gallon), and occasionally shrimp, if the betta doesn't eat > them. > Avoid fish of the same color or shape (especially with long fins), fast > swimmers (which I didn't put on the list anyway because they don't do well > in 10 gallon tanks), labyrinth fish, or fish which occupy the top of the > tank like the betta. This rules out gouramis, guppies, hatchetfish, any > species of long finned tetras, and various other fish depending on the > color > of the betta you choose. > (END SNIP) > > Of course, there are always exceptions. > > Here's the rest of that article in case you can't open my blog. I don't > remember if blogs are blocked or not over there. > > Hailey's 10 Gallon Tank Stocking List And Suggestions > > You want to stick to fish that stay under 3 inches and are slow moving > or at > least not terribly active (that rules out things like tiger barbs...almost > all barbs in fact, danios, most rainbows, etc). > > Schooling fish appropriate for a 10 gallon: > (remember to keep schooling fish in groups of 6 or more) > neon tetra > black neon tetra > gold neon tetra > green neon tetra > ember tetra > red eye tetra > glowlight tetra > silver tip tetra > pristella tetra > green fire tetra > black phantom tetra > red phantom tetra > cochu's blue tetra > blue emperor tetra (Inpaichthys kerri...not to be confused with the > emperor > tetra, Nematobrycon palmeri) > emerald eye rasbora > harlequin rasbora > black harlequin rasbora > golden harlequin rasbora > red axelrod rasbora > dwarf rasbora > one-lined pencilfish > black winged hatchetfish > marbled hatchetfish > threadfin (or featherfin) rainbowfish > blue-eye rainbowfish or forktail rainbowfish of the pseudomugil genus > (many > different kinds...all small schooling fish, but some are > semi-aggressive, so > research and choose carefully) > > Semi-schooling fish: > (these fish prefer 6 or more, but can be kept with just 2+, though more is > always better) > cherry barbs (not most other barbs) > emperor tetras (Nematobrycon amphiloxus, not the "blue emperor tetra", > Inpaichthys kerri) > kuhli loaches > panda corydora catfish (good scavenger) > pygmy corydora catfish (smaller version of the same) > otocinclus catfish (good algae eater) > > Non-schooling fish (so you can have just 1): > dwarf gourami (can also be kept one male and two or more females) > or > betta splendens* > or > betta imbellis* > or > betta smaragdina* > (never mix the above fish and never keep two males of any in one tank) > platy > guppy > endler > (the above three prefer more of their own kind but are alright alone...if > you add more than one make sure they are all male or you will have tons of > fry being born all the time) > > Invertebrates and other non-fish tankmates: > (these would be good with anything that doesn't get big enough to eat > them) > amano shrimp (great algae eater) > cherry shrimp (good algae eater) > blue shrimp (good algae eater) > red fronted shrimp (good algae eater) > tiger shrimp (good algae eater) > bumblebee shrimp (okay algae eater) > ghost shrimp (does not eat algae, but can be a help as a scavenger) > apple snail > mystery snail > malaysian trumpet snail (very helpful as a sand sifter to keep anaerobic > pockets from developing in sand substrates) > ramshorn snail > [Note: all snails breed rapidly and can overpopulate a tank quickly if > over > fed. Keep feeding to just what the fish need...the snails will find enough > that the fish miss during feedings to live on] > African dwarf frog (not to be confused with the African clawed frog, which > will get far too large and aggressive for a 10 gallon tank) > > Species tank fish (keep only them, with nothing else): > dwarf puffers (1 male only, 3-4 females) > German blue rams (male/female pair) > sparkling gouramis (one male and 1 or more females) > licorice gouramis (male/female pair) > (the gouramis can be kept in very sedate, peaceful community tanks but do > best in species tanks because they are so shy) > neolamprologus (aka. 'lamprologus') brevis (male/female pair) > neolamprologus (aka. 'lamprologus') multifasciatus (1 male, 2 females) > neolamprologus (aka. 'lamprologus') similis (1 male, 2 females) > (the three tanganyikan cichlids above must be provided with plenty of > small > shells that they can fit in, since they are shell dwellers) > > Remember to try to keep schooling fish in groups of 6 or more...this makes > it hard to stock a small tank, but if you get only one school of something > you can do it, or if you stick to the tiniest schoolers like ember green > neon, or neon tetras, and then add some non-schooling fish like a gourami, > platy, betta, etc. > > *Bettas can be particularly tricky to keep with other fish, so I > thought it > best to elaborate on the subject of proper tankmates for bettas. Some good > tankmates for bettas include corydoras, otocinclus, small, peaceful tetras > and rasboras like the ones on this list (some others may not be > appropriate), kuhli loaches, pencilfish, snails, African dwarf frogs (only > one in a 10 gallon), and occasionally shrimp, if the betta doesn't eat > them. > Avoid fish of the same color or shape (especially with long fins), fast > swimmers (which I didn't put on the list anyway because they don't do well > in 10 gallon tanks), labyrinth fish, or fish which occupy the top of the > tank like the betta. This rules out gouramis, guppies, hatchetfish, any > species of long finned tetras, and various other fish depending on the > color > of the betta you choose. > > Recently, a group of freshwater fish classified as nano-fish are becoming > available to the hobby. Frank's Aquariums sells a good selection of > nano-fish - http://www.franksaquarium.com/nanofish.htm > <http://www.franksaquarium.com/nanofish.htm> > > Hope this helps with your 10G stocking ideas. > > GoldLenny (with a BIG THANKS to Hailey for all of her work compiling this > list) > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right > side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On > Behalf Of N Taweel > Sent: Monday, November 30, 2009 5:24 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Subject: [AquaticLife] Betta? > > Hi, > Do Bettas usually bite the other fish's tails? If yes, is there > anything to > do other than isolating the betta in its own tank? I didn't see him biting > or chasing, but since I got him it seems like the other fish are > having torn > tails! > > Noura > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 44811	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 11/30/2009
Subject: Sad News for Chicagoland Pet Lovers

http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/chi-animal-kingdomnov30,0,6426029.story http://tinyurl.com/yamewwd Animal Kingdom: Colorful North Side pet shop calling it quits Store supplied exotic animals to television programs Doors closing Customers browse at Animal Kingdom, 2980 N. Milwaukee Ave. in Chicago on Saturday. Owners of the longtime pet store are planning on closing the shop after 70 years of business. (Tribune photo by Chris Sweda / November 30, 2009) By Angie Leventis Lourgos Tribune reporter November 30, 2009 The original Chelveston the Duck, a fowl famous for his antics on Ray Rayner's WGN-TV show, was almost someone's dinner. He was rescued from a poultry shop by the Animal Kingdom pet store, which supplied most Chicago-based animal "actors" from the 1950s to the 1980s. The iconic pet shop at 2980 N. Milwaukee Ave. was once home to Luther the Leopard, who was rented by magicians and did photo shoots, including one for an ad that appeared in Playboy. Tina the Tiger was a model and actress who made appearances in local parades, and the "Acro-Cats" -- four trained alley cats -- would walk tightropes and roll balls into bowling pins for the entertainment of customers. . . . -------------------------------<continued at link given above>--------------------------------- \\Steve//

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 44812	From: sevenspringss@wmconnect.com	Date: 12/1/2009
Subject: Re: Dosing 55 gallon with flourish excel

Bill, I thought I may have clued you in on this method, but maybe not. If not, the amount of Flourish Excel found to be effective in getting rid of Black Beard Algae would be 30 ml for your 20 gallon tank. One teaspoon = 5 ml, so you'd need 6 teaspoons. I've seen reports of some hobbyists using it every other day for about a week, but maybe Lenny or \\Steve// could fill you in on that better. Ray [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 44813	From: Dora Smith	Date: 12/1/2009
Subject: Re: Betta?

Wow, he's a lucky betta! Maybe I should get mine a small tank after all. Yours, Dora Smith Austin, TX tiggernut24@... ----- Original Message ----- From: "Lainey Alexander" <lainealex@...> To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Monday, November 30, 2009 7:53 PM Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Betta? Hi Noura - I have a male betta that I wanted to place in a community tank but he was too aggressive and damaged multiple fins. I read online that while some bettas will co-habitate without aggression, others will become too aggressive to be kept with other fish. I have mine in a five gallon aquarium with a little heater, and I change his water every other day about 25 percent. He is extremely happy now, much happier than when he was in with other fish. His demeanor is active but mellow and very inquisitive. He has rocks, substrate, hornwort and some ground cover plants. He likes to burrow underneath moss balls. Lainey http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com On Nov 30, 2009, at 6:24 PM, N Taweel wrote: > Hi, > Do Bettas usually bite the other fish's tails? If yes, is there > anything to do other than isolating the betta in its own tank? I > didn't see him biting or chasing, but since I got him it seems like > the other fish are having torn tails! > > Noura > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] ------------------------------------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the home page. Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com to receive the digest, which includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com for the No E-Mail option where you will still be able to read messages on the group and post replies. Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com to receive individual e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 44814	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 12/1/2009
Subject: Re: Dosing 55 gallon with flourish excel

I have five links in my Favorites sub-folder for Seachem Excel (under my Algae sub-folder). This fish keeper accidentally overdosed by at least 5x (blamed it on his daughter.. yeah right! lol) and a couple of days later, had excellent results with all algae being dead and gone. http://www.aquaticplantcentral.com/forumapc/algae/3806-flourish-excel-got-ri d-all-my.html This one double dosed for two weeks before seeing good results. http://www.aquaticplantcentral.com/forumapc/algae/57509-question-about-seach em-excel.html One of the posters at PFK forums says to spot dose with the Excel (much like what is done with Hydrogen Peroxide) and just use normal dosing but if a tank is overwhelmed with algae, this probably isn't "practical"... pardon the pun! http://www.practicalfishkeeping.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?t=13016 Seachem's official reply... http://www.seachem.com/support/FAQs/FlourishExcel.html http://www.seachem.com/support/forums/showthread.php?t=682 Remember that Excel is harmful to Anacharis and Valisneria and possibly other plants, even under normal use. Not sure why, so it's best to remove them first. No use killing good plants or having them further foul your water when they die. Just put them in a bucket and if they have algae on them, do a sanitizing treatment as detailed on my "Planted Tank..." blog article. All this said... if you do not figure out what is causing the algae to happen in the first place, too much light, too much of certain nutrients and not enough of others, improper tank maintenance, etc., then it will only return. AND... MAKE SURE YOU DO A SERIES OF PWC'S AFTER A MASS KILLING OF ALGAE as you will not only have the overdose of Excel but also the decaying algae which will release all of the nutrients that it absorbed right back into the water column. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of sevenspringss@... Sent: Tuesday, December 01, 2009 3:28 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Dosing 55 gallon with flourish excel Bill, I thought I may have clued you in on this method, but maybe not. If not, the amount of Flourish Excel found to be effective in getting rid of Black Beard Algae would be 30 ml for your 20 gallon tank. One teaspoon = 5 ml, so you'd need 6 teaspoons. I've seen reports of some hobbyists using it every other day for about a week, but maybe Lenny or \\Steve// could fill you in on that better. Ray

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 44815	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 12/1/2009
Subject: Re: Dosing 55 gallon with flourish excel

Is it normal for plants to start pearling within seconds of adding the flourish excel, or are the tiny bubbles something I should worry about? Amber Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > > I have five links in my Favorites sub-folder for Seachem Excel (under my > Algae sub-folder). > > This fish keeper accidentally overdosed by at least 5x (blamed it on his > daughter.. yeah right! lol) and a couple of days later, had excellent > results with all algae being dead and gone. > http://www.aquaticplantcentral.com/forumapc/algae/3806-flourish-excel-got-ri > <http://www.aquaticplantcentral.com/forumapc/algae/3806-flourish-excel-got-ri> > d-all-my.html > > This one double dosed for two weeks before seeing good results. > http://www.aquaticplantcentral.com/forumapc/algae/57509-question-about-seach > <http://www.aquaticplantcentral.com/forumapc/algae/57509-question-about-seach> > em-excel.html > > One of the posters at PFK forums says to spot dose with the Excel > (much like > what is done with Hydrogen Peroxide) and just use normal dosing but if a > tank is overwhelmed with algae, this probably isn't "practical"... pardon > the pun! > http://www.practicalfishkeeping.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?t=13016 > <http://www.practicalfishkeeping.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?t=13016> > > Seachem's official reply... > http://www.seachem.com/support/FAQs/FlourishExcel.html > <http://www.seachem.com/support/FAQs/FlourishExcel.html> > http://www.seachem.com/support/forums/showthread.php?t=682 > <http://www.seachem.com/support/forums/showthread.php?t=682> > > Remember that Excel is harmful to Anacharis and Valisneria and possibly > other plants, even under normal use. Not sure why, so it's best to remove > them first. No use killing good plants or having them further foul your > water when they die. Just put them in a bucket and if they have algae on > them, do a sanitizing treatment as detailed on my "Planted Tank..." blog > article. > > All this said... if you do not figure out what is causing the algae to > happen in the first place, too much light, too much of certain > nutrients and > not enough of others, improper tank maintenance, etc., then it will only > return. > > AND... MAKE SURE YOU DO A SERIES OF PWC'S AFTER A MASS KILLING OF ALGAE as > you will not only have the overdose of Excel but also the decaying algae > which will release all of the nutrients that it absorbed right back > into the > water column. > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right > side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On > Behalf Of sevenspringss@... > <mailto:sevenspringss%40wmconnect.com> > Sent: Tuesday, December 01, 2009 3:28 AM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Dosing 55 gallon with flourish excel > > Bill, I thought I may have clued you in on this method, but maybe not. If > not, the amount of Flourish Excel found to be effective in getting rid of > Black Beard Algae would be 30 ml for your 20 gallon tank. One teaspoon = 5 > ml, so you'd need 6 teaspoons. I've seen reports of some hobbyists > using it > every other day for about a week, but maybe Lenny or \\Steve// could fill > you in on that better. Ray > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 44816	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 12/1/2009
Subject: Re: Dosing 55 gallon with flourish excel

Now my question to this post Lenny, LOL. What is the highest safe dosage you can use of Excel with shrimp/snails in the tank? Amber Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > > I have five links in my Favorites sub-folder for Seachem Excel (under my > Algae sub-folder). > > This fish keeper accidentally overdosed by at least 5x (blamed it on his > daughter.. yeah right! lol) and a couple of days later, had excellent > results with all algae being dead and gone. > http://www.aquaticplantcentral.com/forumapc/algae/3806-flourish-excel-got-ri > <http://www.aquaticplantcentral.com/forumapc/algae/3806-flourish-excel-got-ri> > d-all-my.html > > This one double dosed for two weeks before seeing good results. > http://www.aquaticplantcentral.com/forumapc/algae/57509-question-about-seach > <http://www.aquaticplantcentral.com/forumapc/algae/57509-question-about-seach> > em-excel.html > > One of the posters at PFK forums says to spot dose with the Excel > (much like > what is done with Hydrogen Peroxide) and just use normal dosing but if a > tank is overwhelmed with algae, this probably isn't "practical"... pardon > the pun! > http://www.practicalfishkeeping.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?t=13016 > <http://www.practicalfishkeeping.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?t=13016> > > Seachem's official reply... > http://www.seachem.com/support/FAQs/FlourishExcel.html > <http://www.seachem.com/support/FAQs/FlourishExcel.html> > http://www.seachem.com/support/forums/showthread.php?t=682 > <http://www.seachem.com/support/forums/showthread.php?t=682> > > Remember that Excel is harmful to Anacharis and Valisneria and possibly > other plants, even under normal use. Not sure why, so it's best to remove > them first. No use killing good plants or having them further foul your > water when they die. Just put them in a bucket and if they have algae on > them, do a sanitizing treatment as detailed on my "Planted Tank..." blog > article. > > All this said... if you do not figure out what is causing the algae to > happen in the first place, too much light, too much of certain > nutrients and > not enough of others, improper tank maintenance, etc., then it will only > return. > > AND... MAKE SURE YOU DO A SERIES OF PWC'S AFTER A MASS KILLING OF ALGAE as > you will not only have the overdose of Excel but also the decaying algae > which will release all of the nutrients that it absorbed right back > into the > water column. > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right > side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On > Behalf Of sevenspringss@... > <mailto:sevenspringss%40wmconnect.com> > Sent: Tuesday, December 01, 2009 3:28 AM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Dosing 55 gallon with flourish excel > > Bill, I thought I may have clued you in on this method, but maybe not. If > not, the amount of Flourish Excel found to be effective in getting rid of > Black Beard Algae would be 30 ml for your 20 gallon tank. One teaspoon = 5 > ml, so you'd need 6 teaspoons. I've seen reports of some hobbyists > using it > every other day for about a week, but maybe Lenny or \\Steve// could fill > you in on that better. Ray > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 44817	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 12/1/2009
Subject: Re: Dosing 55 gallon with flourish excel

Excel is a replacement for CO2. When the lights are on, plants take in CO2 and put out O2 so the pearling is just the O2 coming out since there so much more CO2 for the plants to take in. Of course, there has to be nutrients as well... to feed the plants during photosynthesis. -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Amber Berglund Sent: Tuesday, December 01, 2009 5:00 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Dosing 55 gallon with flourish excel Is it normal for plants to start pearling within seconds of adding the flourish excel, or are the tiny bubbles something I should worry about? Amber Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > > I have five links in my Favorites sub-folder for Seachem Excel (under > my Algae sub-folder). > > This fish keeper accidentally overdosed by at least 5x (blamed it on > his daughter.. yeah right! lol) and a couple of days later, had > excellent results with all algae being dead and gone. > <http://www.aquaticplantcentral.com/forumapc/algae/3806-flourish-excel-got-r id-all-my.html > > This one double dosed for two weeks before seeing good results. > <http://www.aquaticplantcentral.com/forumapc/algae/57509-question-about-seac hem-excel.html > > One of the posters at PFK forums says to spot dose with the Excel > (much like what is done with Hydrogen Peroxide) and just use normal > dosing but if a tank is overwhelmed with algae, this probably isn't > "practical"... pardon the pun! > http://www.practicalfishkeeping.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?t=13016 > <http://www.practicalfishkeeping.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?t=13016> > > Seachem's official reply... > http://www.seachem.com/support/FAQs/FlourishExcel.html > <http://www.seachem.com/support/FAQs/FlourishExcel.html> > http://www.seachem.com/support/forums/showthread.php?t=682 > <http://www.seachem.com/support/forums/showthread.php?t=682> > > Remember that Excel is harmful to Anacharis and Valisneria and > possibly other plants, even under normal use. Not sure why, so it's > best to remove them first. No use killing good plants or having them > further foul your water when they die. Just put them in a bucket and > if they have algae on them, do a sanitizing treatment as detailed on > my "Planted Tank..." blog article. > > All this said... if you do not figure out what is causing the algae to > happen in the first place, too much light, too much of certain > nutrients and not enough of others, improper tank maintenance, etc., > then it will only return. > > AND... MAKE SURE YOU DO A SERIES OF PWC'S AFTER A MASS KILLING OF > ALGAE as you will not only have the overdose of Excel but also the > decaying algae which will release all of the nutrients that it > absorbed right back into the water column. > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> (Links to any articles referenced in > above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels > and also under Archives by Year, Month) > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On Behalf Of > sevenspringss@... <mailto:sevenspringss%40wmconnect.com> > Sent: Tuesday, December 01, 2009 3:28 AM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Dosing 55 gallon with flourish excel > > Bill, I thought I may have clued you in on this method, but maybe not. > If not, the amount of Flourish Excel found to be effective in getting > rid of Black Beard Algae would be 30 ml for your 20 gallon tank. One > teaspoon = 5 ml, so you'd need 6 teaspoons. I've seen reports of some > hobbyists using it every other day for about a week, but maybe Lenny > or \\Steve// could fill you in on that better. Ray

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 44818	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 12/1/2009
Subject: Re: Dosing 55 gallon with flourish excel

I just wanted to make sure it was normal for pearling to start right away, I figured it would take a little while before the plants would start putting off mass amounts of O2. Would root movement produce more bacteria emissions from the soil? Should I still do my weekly PWC when using the excel or put it off a little? I'm due for my PWC tonight. Amber Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > > Excel is a replacement for CO2. When the lights are on, plants take in CO2 > and put out O2 so the pearling is just the O2 coming out since there > so much > more CO2 for the plants to take in. Of course, there has to be > nutrients as > well... to feed the plants during photosynthesis. > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On > Behalf Of Amber Berglund > Sent: Tuesday, December 01, 2009 5:00 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Dosing 55 gallon with flourish excel > > Is it normal for plants to start pearling within seconds of adding the > flourish excel, or are the tiny bubbles something I should worry about? > > Amber > > Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > > > > I have five links in my Favorites sub-folder for Seachem Excel (under > > my Algae sub-folder). > > > > This fish keeper accidentally overdosed by at least 5x (blamed it on > > his daughter.. yeah right! lol) and a couple of days later, had > > excellent results with all algae being dead and gone. > > > <http://www.aquaticplantcentral.com/forumapc/algae/3806-flourish-excel-got-r > <http://www.aquaticplantcentral.com/forumapc/algae/3806-flourish-excel-got-r> > id-all-my.html > > > > This one double dosed for two weeks before seeing good results. > > > <http://www.aquaticplantcentral.com/forumapc/algae/57509-question-about-seac > <http://www.aquaticplantcentral.com/forumapc/algae/57509-question-about-seac> > hem-excel.html > > > > One of the posters at PFK forums says to spot dose with the Excel > > (much like what is done with Hydrogen Peroxide) and just use normal > > dosing but if a tank is overwhelmed with algae, this probably isn't > > "practical"... pardon the pun! > > http://www.practicalfishkeeping.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?t=13016 > <http://www.practicalfishkeeping.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?t=13016> > > <http://www.practicalfishkeeping.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?t=13016 > <http://www.practicalfishkeeping.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?t=13016>> > > > > Seachem's official reply... > > http://www.seachem.com/support/FAQs/FlourishExcel.html > <http://www.seachem.com/support/FAQs/FlourishExcel.html> > > <http://www.seachem.com/support/FAQs/FlourishExcel.html > <http://www.seachem.com/support/FAQs/FlourishExcel.html>> > > http://www.seachem.com/support/forums/showthread.php?t=682 > <http://www.seachem.com/support/forums/showthread.php?t=682> > > <http://www.seachem.com/support/forums/showthread.php?t=682 > <http://www.seachem.com/support/forums/showthread.php?t=682>> > > > > Remember that Excel is harmful to Anacharis and Valisneria and > > possibly other plants, even under normal use. Not sure why, so it's > > best to remove them first. No use killing good plants or having them > > further foul your water when they die. Just put them in a bucket and > > if they have algae on them, do a sanitizing treatment as detailed on > > my "Planted Tank..." blog article. > > > > All this said... if you do not figure out what is causing the algae to > > happen in the first place, too much light, too much of certain > > nutrients and not enough of others, improper tank maintenance, etc., > > then it will only return. > > > > AND... MAKE SURE YOU DO A SERIES OF PWC'S AFTER A MASS KILLING OF > > ALGAE as you will not only have the overdose of Excel but also the > > decaying algae which will release all of the nutrients that it > > absorbed right back into the water column. > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>> > (Links to any articles referenced in > > above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels > > and also under Archives by Year, Month) > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On Behalf Of > > sevenspringss@... <mailto:sevenspringss%40wmconnect.com> > <mailto:sevenspringss%40wmconnect.com> > > Sent: Tuesday, December 01, 2009 3:28 AM > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Dosing 55 gallon with flourish excel > > > > Bill, I thought I may have clued you in on this method, but maybe not. > > If not, the amount of Flourish Excel found to be effective in getting > > rid of Black Beard Algae would be 30 ml for your 20 gallon tank. One > > teaspoon = 5 ml, so you'd need 6 teaspoons. I've seen reports of some > > hobbyists using it every other day for about a week, but maybe Lenny > > or \\Steve// could fill you in on that better. Ray > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 44819	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 12/1/2009
Subject: Re: Dosing 55 gallon with flourish excel

No clue. You might want to search the APC forums for key words like 'safe dose excel shrimp' and see what comes up. OR... just read that top link below (which I've fixed since YahooGroups breaks long links) and that forum thread is 25 pages long and probably has everything you've ever wanted to know about Excel and Algae... but was afraid to ask. On the first page of the thread, Simte27, who started the thread about the accidental 5X overdose, states in a follow-up post, that he/she has shrimp in the tank and lists the fish also and says no problems with them. Read the entire thread though as I've never read the entire 25 page thread. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Amber Berglund Sent: Tuesday, December 01, 2009 5:13 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Dosing 55 gallon with flourish excel Now my question to this post Lenny, LOL. What is the highest safe dosage you can use of Excel with shrimp/snails in the tank? Amber Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > > I have five links in my Favorites sub-folder for Seachem Excel (under > my Algae sub-folder). > > This fish keeper accidentally overdosed by at least 5x (blamed it on > his daughter.. yeah right! lol) and a couple of days later, had > excellent results with all algae being dead and gone. http://www.aquaticplantcentral.com/forumapc/algae/3806-flourish-excel-got-ri d-all-my.html > This one double dosed for two weeks before seeing good results. > http://www.aquaticplantcentral.com/forumapc/algae/57509-question-about > -seach > <http://www.aquaticplantcentral.com/forumapc/algae/57509-question-abou > t-seach> > em-excel.html > > One of the posters at PFK forums says to spot dose with the Excel > (much like what is done with Hydrogen Peroxide) and just use normal > dosing but if a tank is overwhelmed with algae, this probably isn't > "practical"... pardon the pun! > http://www.practicalfishkeeping.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?t=13016 > <http://www.practicalfishkeeping.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?t=13016> > > Seachem's official reply... > http://www.seachem.com/support/FAQs/FlourishExcel.html > <http://www.seachem.com/support/FAQs/FlourishExcel.html> > http://www.seachem.com/support/forums/showthread.php?t=682 > <http://www.seachem.com/support/forums/showthread.php?t=682> > > Remember that Excel is harmful to Anacharis and Valisneria and > possibly other plants, even under normal use. Not sure why, so it's > best to remove them first. No use killing good plants or having them > further foul your water when they die. Just put them in a bucket and > if they have algae on them, do a sanitizing treatment as detailed on > my "Planted Tank..." blog article. > > All this said... if you do not figure out what is causing the algae to > happen in the first place, too much light, too much of certain > nutrients and not enough of others, improper tank maintenance, etc., > then it will only return. > > AND... MAKE SURE YOU DO A SERIES OF PWC'S AFTER A MASS KILLING OF > ALGAE as you will not only have the overdose of Excel but also the > decaying algae which will release all of the nutrients that it > absorbed right back into the water column. > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> (Links to any articles referenced in > above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels > and also under Archives by Year, Month) > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On Behalf Of > sevenspringss@... <mailto:sevenspringss%40wmconnect.com> > Sent: Tuesday, December 01, 2009 3:28 AM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Dosing 55 gallon with flourish excel > > Bill, I thought I may have clued you in on this method, but maybe not. > If not, the amount of Flourish Excel found to be effective in getting > rid of Black Beard Algae would be 30 ml for your 20 gallon tank. One > teaspoon = 5 ml, so you'd need 6 teaspoons. I've seen reports of some > hobbyists using it every other day for about a week, but maybe Lenny > or \\Steve// could fill you in on that better. Ray

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 44820	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 12/1/2009
Subject: Re: Dosing 55 gallon with flourish excel

As I understand it, Excel only lasts for 24 hours before it is either used up by the plants or outgases, which is why it has to be dosed every day for effective plant growth. Since it will be killing algae (hopefully), you should probably do your PWC as usual to remove the excess nutrients being put out by the dead/dying algae. Of course, if your nitrate levels are really low because of the more rapid plant intake, then maybe holding off for a little while might be OK too. I would probably have to do my testing and make a decision based on how the numbers look, compared to previous pre-PWC testing. Still properly clean the filters though! No use leaving all that fish poop in the filters to decay back into the water column. Nobody likes swimming around in or breathing diarrhea water... well, maybe Bill Murray doesn't mind it (in Caddy Shack... it was just a Baby Ruth). Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Amber Berglund Sent: Tuesday, December 01, 2009 5:17 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Dosing 55 gallon with flourish excel I just wanted to make sure it was normal for pearling to start right away, I figured it would take a little while before the plants would start putting off mass amounts of O2. Would root movement produce more bacteria emissions from the soil? Should I still do my weekly PWC when using the excel or put it off a little? I'm due for my PWC tonight. Amber Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > > Excel is a replacement for CO2. When the lights are on, plants take in > CO2 and put out O2 so the pearling is just the O2 coming out since > there so much more CO2 for the plants to take in. Of course, there has > to be nutrients as well... to feed the plants during photosynthesis. > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On Behalf Of Amber Berglund > Sent: Tuesday, December 01, 2009 5:00 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Dosing 55 gallon with flourish excel > > Is it normal for plants to start pearling within seconds of adding the > flourish excel, or are the tiny bubbles something I should worry about? > > Amber > > Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > > > > I have five links in my Favorites sub-folder for Seachem Excel > > (under my Algae sub-folder). > > > > This fish keeper accidentally overdosed by at least 5x (blamed it on > > his daughter.. yeah right! lol) and a couple of days later, had > > excellent results with all algae being dead and gone. > > > <http://www.aquaticplantcentral.com/forumapc/algae/3806-flourish-excel > -got-r > <http://www.aquaticplantcentral.com/forumapc/algae/3806-flourish-excel > -got-r> > id-all-my.html > > > > This one double dosed for two weeks before seeing good results. > > > <http://www.aquaticplantcentral.com/forumapc/algae/57509-question-abou > t-seac > <http://www.aquaticplantcentral.com/forumapc/algae/57509-question-abou > t-seac> > hem-excel.html > > > > One of the posters at PFK forums says to spot dose with the Excel > > (much like what is done with Hydrogen Peroxide) and just use normal > > dosing but if a tank is overwhelmed with algae, this probably isn't > > "practical"... pardon the pun! > > http://www.practicalfishkeeping.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?t=13016 > <http://www.practicalfishkeeping.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?t=13016> > > <http://www.practicalfishkeeping.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?t=13016 > <http://www.practicalfishkeeping.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?t=13016>> > > > > Seachem's official reply... > > http://www.seachem.com/support/FAQs/FlourishExcel.html > <http://www.seachem.com/support/FAQs/FlourishExcel.html> > > <http://www.seachem.com/support/FAQs/FlourishExcel.html > <http://www.seachem.com/support/FAQs/FlourishExcel.html>> > > http://www.seachem.com/support/forums/showthread.php?t=682 > <http://www.seachem.com/support/forums/showthread.php?t=682> > > <http://www.seachem.com/support/forums/showthread.php?t=682 > <http://www.seachem.com/support/forums/showthread.php?t=682>> > > > > Remember that Excel is harmful to Anacharis and Valisneria and > > possibly other plants, even under normal use. Not sure why, so it's > > best to remove them first. No use killing good plants or having them > > further foul your water when they die. Just put them in a bucket and > > if they have algae on them, do a sanitizing treatment as detailed on > > my "Planted Tank..." blog article. > > > > All this said... if you do not figure out what is causing the algae > > to happen in the first place, too much light, too much of certain > > nutrients and not enough of others, improper tank maintenance, etc., > > then it will only return. > > > > AND... MAKE SURE YOU DO A SERIES OF PWC'S AFTER A MASS KILLING OF > > ALGAE as you will not only have the overdose of Excel but also the > > decaying algae which will release all of the nutrients that it > > absorbed right back into the water column. > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>> > (Links to any articles referenced in > > above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under > > Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On Behalf Of > > sevenspringss@... <mailto:sevenspringss%40wmconnect.com> > <mailto:sevenspringss%40wmconnect.com> > > Sent: Tuesday, December 01, 2009 3:28 AM > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Dosing 55 gallon with flourish excel > > > > Bill, I thought I may have clued you in on this method, but maybe not. > > If not, the amount of Flourish Excel found to be effective in > > getting rid of Black Beard Algae would be 30 ml for your 20 gallon > > tank. One teaspoon = 5 ml, so you'd need 6 teaspoons. I've seen > > reports of some hobbyists using it every other day for about a week, > > but maybe Lenny or \\Steve// could fill you in on that better. Ray

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 44821	From: Dayne	Date: 12/1/2009
Subject: Re: Dosing 55 gallon with flourish excel

What exactly is the "pearling" that ya'll keep mentioning? (can you tell that I'm a GRITS?) dayne, shadow, rasputin,and ms lincoln, https://www.armyofwomen.org/getinvolved http://adoptaussoldier.org/ http://freerice.com/index.php Sent from my iPhone On Dec 1, 2009, at 6:17 PM, Amber Berglund <arberglund@...> wrote: I just wanted to make sure it was normal for pearling to start right away, I figured it would take a little while before the plants would start putting off mass amounts of O2. Would root movement produce more bacteria emissions from the soil? Should I still do my weekly PWC when using the excel or put it off a little? I'm due for my PWC tonight. Amber Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: Excel is a replacement for CO2. When the lights are on, plants take in CO2 and put out O2 so the pearling is just the O2 coming out since there so much more CO2 for the plants to take in. Of course, there has to be nutrients as well... to feed the plants during photosynthesis. -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On Behalf Of Amber Berglund Sent: Tuesday, December 01, 2009 5:00 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Dosing 55 gallon with flourish excel Is it normal for plants to start pearling within seconds of adding the flourish excel, or are the tiny bubbles something I should worry about? Amber Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: I have five links in my Favorites sub-folder for Seachem Excel (under my Algae sub-folder). This fish keeper accidentally overdosed by at least 5x (blamed it on his daughter.. yeah right! lol) and a couple of days later, had excellent results with all algae being dead and gone. <http://www.aquaticplantcentral.com/forumapc/algae/3806-flourish-excel-got-r <http://www.aquaticplantcentral.com/forumapc/algae/3806-flourish-excel-got-r> id-all-my.html This one double dosed for two weeks before seeing good results. <http://www.aquaticplantcentral.com/forumapc/algae/57509-question-about-seac <http://www.aquaticplantcentral.com/forumapc/algae/57509-question-about-seac> hem-excel.html One of the posters at PFK forums says to spot dose with the Excel (much like what is done with Hydrogen Peroxide) and just use normal dosing but if a tank is overwhelmed with algae, this probably isn't "practical"... pardon the pun! http://www.practicalfishkeeping.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?t=13016 <http://www.practicalfishkeeping.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?t=13016> <http://www.practicalfishkeeping.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?t=13016 <http://www.practicalfishkeeping.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?t=13016>> Seachem's official reply... http://www.seachem.com/support/FAQs/FlourishExcel.html <http://www.seachem.com/support/FAQs/FlourishExcel.html> <http://www.seachem.com/support/FAQs/FlourishExcel.html <http://www.seachem.com/support/FAQs/FlourishExcel.html>> http://www.seachem.com/support/forums/showthread.php?t=682 <http://www.seachem.com/support/forums/showthread.php?t=682> <http://www.seachem.com/support/forums/showthread.php?t=682 <http://www.seachem.com/support/forums/showthread.php?t=682>> Remember that Excel is harmful to Anacharis and Valisneria and possibly other plants, even under normal use. Not sure why, so it's best to remove them first. No use killing good plants or having them further foul your water when they die. Just put them in a bucket and if they have algae on them, do a sanitizing treatment as detailed on my "Planted Tank..." blog article. All this said... if you do not figure out what is causing the algae to happen in the first place, too much light, too much of certain nutrients and not enough of others, improper tank maintenance, etc., then it will only return. AND... MAKE SURE YOU DO A SERIES OF PWC'S AFTER A MASS KILLING OF ALGAE as you will not only have the overdose of Excel but also the decaying algae which will release all of the nutrients that it absorbed right back into the water column. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>> (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On Behalf Of sevenspringss@... <mailto:sevenspringss%40wmconnect.com> <mailto:sevenspringss%40wmconnect.com> Sent: Tuesday, December 01, 2009 3:28 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Dosing 55 gallon with flourish excel Bill, I thought I may have clued you in on this method, but maybe not. If not, the amount of Flourish Excel found to be effective in getting rid of Black Beard Algae would be 30 ml for your 20 gallon tank. One teaspoon = 5 ml, so you'd need 6 teaspoons. I've seen reports of some hobbyists using it every other day for about a week, but maybe Lenny or \\Steve// could fill you in on that better. Ray ------------------------------------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the home page. Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com to receive the digest, which includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com for the No E-Mail option where you will still be able to read messages on the group and post replies. Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com to receive individual e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 44822	From: Lainey Alexander	Date: 12/1/2009
Subject: Re: Dosing 55 gallon with flourish excel

Seachem told me that in their safety tests on Excel, fish fatalities occur at 14% of glutaraldehyde (do I have the active ingredient spelled right?) and that Excel contains 2.6%. Just something to keep in mind re safety... Lainey http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com On Dec 1, 2009, at 12:53 PM, Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > I have five links in my Favorites sub-folder for Seachem Excel > (under my > Algae sub-folder). > > This fish keeper accidentally overdosed by at least 5x (blamed it > on his > daughter.. yeah right! lol) and a couple of days later, had excellent > results with all algae being dead and gone. > http://www.aquaticplantcentral.com/forumapc/algae/3806-flourish- > excel-got-ri > d-all-my.html > > This one double dosed for two weeks before seeing good results. > http://www.aquaticplantcentral.com/forumapc/algae/57509-question- > about-seach > em-excel.html > > One of the posters at PFK forums says to spot dose with the Excel > (much like > what is done with Hydrogen Peroxide) and just use normal dosing but > if a > tank is overwhelmed with algae, this probably isn't "practical"... > pardon > the pun! > http://www.practicalfishkeeping.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?t=13016 > > Seachem's official reply... > http://www.seachem.com/support/FAQs/FlourishExcel.html > http://www.seachem.com/support/forums/showthread.php?t=682 > > Remember that Excel is harmful to Anacharis and Valisneria and > possibly > other plants, even under normal use. Not sure why, so it's best to > remove > them first. No use killing good plants or having them further foul > your > water when they die. Just put them in a bucket and if they have > algae on > them, do a sanitizing treatment as detailed on my "Planted Tank..." > blog > article. > > All this said... if you do not figure out what is causing the algae to > happen in the first place, too much light, too much of certain > nutrients and > not enough of others, improper tank maintenance, etc., then it will > only > return. > > AND... MAKE SURE YOU DO A SERIES OF PWC'S AFTER A MASS KILLING OF > ALGAE as > you will not only have the overdose of Excel but also the decaying > algae > which will release all of the nutrients that it absorbed right back > into the > water column. > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the > right > side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, > Month) > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On > Behalf Of sevenspringss@... > Sent: Tuesday, December 01, 2009 3:28 AM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Dosing 55 gallon with flourish excel > > Bill, I thought I may have clued you in on this method, but maybe > not. If > not, the amount of Flourish Excel found to be effective in getting > rid of > Black Beard Algae would be 30 ml for your 20 gallon tank. One > teaspoon = 5 > ml, so you'd need 6 teaspoons. I've seen reports of some hobbyists > using it > every other day for about a week, but maybe Lenny or \\Steve// > could fill > you in on that better. Ray > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 44823	From: sevenspringss@wmconnect.com	Date: 12/1/2009
Subject: Re: Dosing 55 gallon with flourish excel

approve [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 44824	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 12/1/2009
Subject: Re: Dosing 55 gallon with flourish excel

Here's some pictures found with a Google Image search. http://www.mosswall.com/Picture/Plant/Riccia/riccia2.jpg http://www.mizuworld.com/images/product/thumb4/0469422001243246317.jpg http://aquaticplants.tribe.net/photos/0cc22c50-93dd-4260-85b3-0182e3fa827d http://lh4.ggpht.com/_DtAIqAbd77g/SbQrraCGZNI/AAAAAAAACfU/UzslXaZjvj4/s512/P 1100650.JPG BTW... is a "GRITS" the same as a newbie? :-P Being mostly from the South, this is the only "GRITS" that I know about... http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Grits, well... and nobody can forget this true grit... http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=prrkuCmNDC0 Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Dayne Sent: Tuesday, December 01, 2009 7:37 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Dosing 55 gallon with flourish excel What exactly is the "pearling" that ya'll keep mentioning? (can you tell that I'm a GRITS?) dayne, shadow, rasputin,and ms lincoln, https://www.armyofwomen.org/getinvolved http://adoptaussoldier.org/ http://freerice.com/index.php Sent from my iPhone On Dec 1, 2009, at 6:17 PM, Amber Berglund <arberglund@...> wrote: I just wanted to make sure it was normal for pearling to start right away, I figured it would take a little while before the plants would start putting off mass amounts of O2. Would root movement produce more bacteria emissions from the soil? Should I still do my weekly PWC when using the excel or put it off a little? I'm due for my PWC tonight. Amber Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: Excel is a replacement for CO2. When the lights are on, plants take in CO2 and put out O2 so the pearling is just the O2 coming out since there so much more CO2 for the plants to take in. Of course, there has to be nutrients as well... to feed the plants during photosynthesis. -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On Behalf Of Amber Berglund Sent: Tuesday, December 01, 2009 5:00 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Dosing 55 gallon with flourish excel Is it normal for plants to start pearling within seconds of adding the flourish excel, or are the tiny bubbles something I should worry about? Amber Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: I have five links in my Favorites sub-folder for Seachem Excel (under my Algae sub-folder). This fish keeper accidentally overdosed by at least 5x (blamed it on his daughter.. yeah right! lol) and a couple of days later, had excellent results with all algae being dead and gone. <http://www.aquaticplantcentral.com/forumapc/algae/3806-flourish-excel-got-r <http://www.aquaticplantcentral.com/forumapc/algae/3806-flourish-excel-got-r > id-all-my.html This one double dosed for two weeks before seeing good results. <http://www.aquaticplantcentral.com/forumapc/algae/57509-question-about-seac <http://www.aquaticplantcentral.com/forumapc/algae/57509-question-about-seac > hem-excel.html One of the posters at PFK forums says to spot dose with the Excel (much like what is done with Hydrogen Peroxide) and just use normal dosing but if a tank is overwhelmed with algae, this probably isn't "practical"... pardon the pun! http://www.practicalfishkeeping.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?t=13016 <http://www.practicalfishkeeping.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?t=13016> <http://www.practicalfishkeeping.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?t=13016 <http://www.practicalfishkeeping.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?t=13016>> Seachem's official reply... http://www.seachem.com/support/FAQs/FlourishExcel.html <http://www.seachem.com/support/FAQs/FlourishExcel.html> <http://www.seachem.com/support/FAQs/FlourishExcel.html <http://www.seachem.com/support/FAQs/FlourishExcel.html>> http://www.seachem.com/support/forums/showthread.php?t=682 <http://www.seachem.com/support/forums/showthread.php?t=682> <http://www.seachem.com/support/forums/showthread.php?t=682 <http://www.seachem.com/support/forums/showthread.php?t=682>> Remember that Excel is harmful to Anacharis and Valisneria and possibly other plants, even under normal use. Not sure why, so it's best to remove them first. No use killing good plants or having them further foul your water when they die. Just put them in a bucket and if they have algae on them, do a sanitizing treatment as detailed on my "Planted Tank..." blog article. All this said... if you do not figure out what is causing the algae to happen in the first place, too much light, too much of certain nutrients and not enough of others, improper tank maintenance, etc., then it will only return. AND... MAKE SURE YOU DO A SERIES OF PWC'S AFTER A MASS KILLING OF ALGAE as you will not only have the overdose of Excel but also the decaying algae which will release all of the nutrients that it absorbed right back into the water column. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>> (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On Behalf Of sevenspringss@... <mailto:sevenspringss%40wmconnect.com> <mailto:sevenspringss%40wmconnect.com> Sent: Tuesday, December 01, 2009 3:28 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Dosing 55 gallon with flourish excel Bill, I thought I may have clued you in on this method, but maybe not. If not, the amount of Flourish Excel found to be effective in getting rid of Black Beard Algae would be 30 ml for your 20 gallon tank. One teaspoon = 5 ml, so you'd need 6 teaspoons. I've seen reports of some hobbyists using it every other day for about a week, but maybe Lenny or \\Steve// could fill you in on that better. Ray

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 44825	From: Dayne	Date: 12/2/2009
Subject: Re: Dosing 55 gallon with flourish excel

Thanks for the links. GRITS = Girl Raised In The South dayne, shadow, rasputin,and ms lincoln, https://www.armyofwomen.org/getinvolved http://adoptaussoldier.org/ http://freerice.com/index.php Sent from my iPhone On Dec 2, 2009, at 12:28 AM, "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@...> wrote: Here's some pictures found with a Google Image search. http://www.mosswall.com/Picture/Plant/Riccia/riccia2.jpg http://www.mizuworld.com/images/product/thumb4/0469422001243246317.jpg http://aquaticplants.tribe.net/photos/0cc22c50-93dd-4260-85b3-0182e3fa827d http://lh4.ggpht.com/_DtAIqAbd77g/SbQrraCGZNI/AAAAAAAACfU/UzslXaZjvj4/s512/P 1100650.JPG BTW... is a "GRITS" the same as a newbie? :-P Being mostly from the South, this is the only "GRITS" that I know about... http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Grits, well... and nobody can forget this true grit... http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=prrkuCmNDC0 Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Dayne Sent: Tuesday, December 01, 2009 7:37 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Dosing 55 gallon with flourish excel What exactly is the "pearling" that ya'll keep mentioning? (can you tell that I'm a GRITS?) dayne, shadow, rasputin,and ms lincoln, https://www.armyofwomen.org/getinvolved http://adoptaussoldier.org/ http://freerice.com/index.php Sent from my iPhone On Dec 1, 2009, at 6:17 PM, Amber Berglund <arberglund@...> wrote: I just wanted to make sure it was normal for pearling to start right away, I figured it would take a little while before the plants would start putting off mass amounts of O2. Would root movement produce more bacteria emissions from the soil? Should I still do my weekly PWC when using the excel or put it off a little? I'm due for my PWC tonight. Amber Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: Excel is a replacement for CO2. When the lights are on, plants take in CO2 and put out O2 so the pearling is just the O2 coming out since there so much more CO2 for the plants to take in. Of course, there has to be nutrients as well... to feed the plants during photosynthesis. -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On Behalf Of Amber Berglund Sent: Tuesday, December 01, 2009 5:00 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Dosing 55 gallon with flourish excel Is it normal for plants to start pearling within seconds of adding the flourish excel, or are the tiny bubbles something I should worry about? Amber Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: I have five links in my Favorites sub-folder for Seachem Excel (under my Algae sub-folder). This fish keeper accidentally overdosed by at least 5x (blamed it on his daughter.. yeah right! lol) and a couple of days later, had excellent results with all algae being dead and gone. <http://www.aquaticplantcentral.com/forumapc/algae/3806-flourish-excel-got-r <http://www.aquaticplantcentral.com/forumapc/algae/3806-flourish-excel-got-r > id-all-my.html This one double dosed for two weeks before seeing good results. <http://www.aquaticplantcentral.com/forumapc/algae/57509-question-about-seac <http://www.aquaticplantcentral.com/forumapc/algae/57509-question-about-seac > hem-excel.html One of the posters at PFK forums says to spot dose with the Excel (much like what is done with Hydrogen Peroxide) and just use normal dosing but if a tank is overwhelmed with algae, this probably isn't "practical"... pardon the pun! http://www.practicalfishkeeping.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?t=13016 <http://www.practicalfishkeeping.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?t=13016> <http://www.practicalfishkeeping.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?t=13016 <http://www.practicalfishkeeping.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?t=13016>> Seachem's official reply... http://www.seachem.com/support/FAQs/FlourishExcel.html <http://www.seachem.com/support/FAQs/FlourishExcel.html> <http://www.seachem.com/support/FAQs/FlourishExcel.html <http://www.seachem.com/support/FAQs/FlourishExcel.html>> http://www.seachem.com/support/forums/showthread.php?t=682 <http://www.seachem.com/support/forums/showthread.php?t=682> <http://www.seachem.com/support/forums/showthread.php?t=682 <http://www.seachem.com/support/forums/showthread.php?t=682>> Remember that Excel is harmful to Anacharis and Valisneria and possibly other plants, even under normal use. Not sure why, so it's best to remove them first. No use killing good plants or having them further foul your water when they die. Just put them in a bucket and if they have algae on them, do a sanitizing treatment as detailed on my "Planted Tank..." blog article. All this said... if you do not figure out what is causing the algae to happen in the first place, too much light, too much of certain nutrients and not enough of others, improper tank maintenance, etc., then it will only return. AND... MAKE SURE YOU DO A SERIES OF PWC'S AFTER A MASS KILLING OF ALGAE as you will not only have the overdose of Excel but also the decaying algae which will release all of the nutrients that it absorbed right back into the water column. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>> (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On Behalf Of sevenspringss@... <mailto:sevenspringss%40wmconnect.com> <mailto:sevenspringss%40wmconnect.com> Sent: Tuesday, December 01, 2009 3:28 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Dosing 55 gallon with flourish excel Bill, I thought I may have clued you in on this method, but maybe not. If not, the amount of Flourish Excel found to be effective in getting rid of Black Beard Algae would be 30 ml for your 20 gallon tank. One teaspoon = 5 ml, so you'd need 6 teaspoons. I've seen reports of some hobbyists using it every other day for about a week, but maybe Lenny or \\Steve// could fill you in on that better. Ray [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 44826	From: noura_taweel	Date: 12/2/2009
Subject: Water Testing

Hi, Can I consider my two tanks "Identical" in water chemistry if these numbers were the same in BOTH tanks ? NO3 50 NO2 0 GH about 14 KH 6 pH 8-8,4 I just did the chemical tests, right before the PWC of both tanks, which is a few days later than the usual schedule. Noura,

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 44827	From: bill 1433	Date: 12/2/2009
Subject: Re: Dosing 55 gallon with flourish excel

Len,   I think see got ya with this one!   Bill <g> --- On Wed, 12/2/09, Dayne <dsnjax@...> wrote: From: Dayne <dsnjax@...> Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Dosing 55 gallon with flourish excel To: "AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com" <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com> Date: Wednesday, December 2, 2009, 4:27 AM Thanks for the links. GRITS = Girl Raised In The South dayne, shadow,  rasputin,and  ms lincoln, https://www.armyofwomen.org/getinvolved%c2%a0 http://adoptaussoldier.org/%c2%a0 http://freerice.com/index.php%c2%a0 Sent from my iPhone On Dec 2, 2009, at 12:28 AM, "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@...> wrote: Here's some pictures found with a Google Image search. http://www.mosswall.com/Picture/Plant/Riccia/riccia2.jpg http://www.mizuworld.com/images/product/thumb4/0469422001243246317.jpg http://aquaticplants.tribe.net/photos/0cc22c50-93dd-4260-85b3-0182e3fa827d http://lh4.ggpht.com/_DtAIqAbd77g/SbQrraCGZNI/AAAAAAAACfU/UzslXaZjvj4/s512/P 1100650.JPG BTW... is a "GRITS" the same as a newbie? :-P Being mostly from the South, this is the only "GRITS" that I know about... http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Grits, well... and nobody can forget this true grit... http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=prrkuCmNDC0 Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Dayne Sent: Tuesday, December 01, 2009 7:37 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Dosing 55 gallon with flourish excel What exactly is the "pearling" that ya'll keep mentioning? (can you tell that I'm a GRITS?) dayne, shadow, rasputin,and ms lincoln, https://www.armyofwomen.org/getinvolved http://adoptaussoldier.org/ http://freerice.com/index.php Sent from my iPhone On Dec 1, 2009, at 6:17 PM, Amber Berglund <arberglund@...> wrote: I just wanted to make sure it was normal for pearling to start right away, I figured it would take a little while before the plants would start putting off mass amounts of O2. Would root movement produce more bacteria emissions from the soil? Should I still do my weekly PWC when using the excel or put it off a little? I'm due for my PWC tonight. Amber Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: Excel is a replacement for CO2. When the lights are on, plants take in CO2 and put out O2 so the pearling is just the O2 coming out since there so much more CO2 for the plants to take in. Of course, there has to be nutrients as well... to feed the plants during photosynthesis. -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On Behalf Of Amber Berglund Sent: Tuesday, December 01, 2009 5:00 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Dosing 55 gallon with flourish excel Is it normal for plants to start pearling within seconds of adding the flourish excel, or are the tiny bubbles something I should worry about? Amber Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: I have five links in my Favorites sub-folder for Seachem Excel (under my Algae sub-folder). This fish keeper accidentally overdosed by at least 5x (blamed it on his daughter.. yeah right! lol) and a couple of days later, had excellent results with all algae being dead and gone. <http://www.aquaticplantcentral.com/forumapc/algae/3806-flourish-excel-got-r <http://www.aquaticplantcentral.com/forumapc/algae/3806-flourish-excel-got-r > id-all-my.html This one double dosed for two weeks before seeing good results. <http://www.aquaticplantcentral.com/forumapc/algae/57509-question-about-seac <http://www.aquaticplantcentral.com/forumapc/algae/57509-question-about-seac > hem-excel.html One of the posters at PFK forums says to spot dose with the Excel (much like what is done with Hydrogen Peroxide) and just use normal dosing but if a tank is overwhelmed with algae, this probably isn't "practical"... pardon the pun! http://www.practicalfishkeeping.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?t=13016 <http://www.practicalfishkeeping.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?t=13016> <http://www.practicalfishkeeping.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?t=13016 <http://www.practicalfishkeeping.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?t=13016>> Seachem's official reply... http://www.seachem.com/support/FAQs/FlourishExcel.html <http://www.seachem.com/support/FAQs/FlourishExcel.html> <http://www.seachem.com/support/FAQs/FlourishExcel.html <http://www.seachem.com/support/FAQs/FlourishExcel.html>> http://www.seachem.com/support/forums/showthread.php?t=682 <http://www.seachem.com/support/forums/showthread.php?t=682> <http://www.seachem.com/support/forums/showthread.php?t=682 <http://www.seachem.com/support/forums/showthread.php?t=682>> Remember that Excel is harmful to Anacharis and Valisneria and possibly other plants, even under normal use. Not sure why, so it's best to remove them first. No use killing good plants or having them further foul your water when they die. Just put them in a bucket and if they have algae on them, do a sanitizing treatment as detailed on my "Planted Tank..." blog article. All this said... if you do not figure out what is causing the algae to happen in the first place, too much light, too much of certain nutrients and not enough of others, improper tank maintenance, etc., then it will only return. AND... MAKE SURE YOU DO A SERIES OF PWC'S AFTER A MASS KILLING OF ALGAE as you will not only have the overdose of Excel but also the decaying algae which will release all of the nutrients that it absorbed right back into the water column. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>> (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On Behalf Of sevenspringss@... <mailto:sevenspringss%40wmconnect.com> <mailto:sevenspringss%40wmconnect.com> Sent: Tuesday, December 01, 2009 3:28 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Dosing 55 gallon with flourish excel Bill, I thought I may have clued you in on this method, but maybe not. If not, the amount of Flourish Excel found to be effective in getting rid of Black Beard Algae would be 30 ml for your 20 gallon tank. One teaspoon = 5 ml, so you'd need 6 teaspoons. I've seen reports of some hobbyists using it every other day for about a week, but maybe Lenny or \\Steve// could fill you in on that better. Ray       [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] ------------------------------------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the home page.  Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com to receive the digest, which includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com for the No E-Mail option where you will still be able to read messages on the group and post replies. Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com to receive individual e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 44828	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 12/2/2009
Subject: Re: Water Testing

I'm guessing this is in relation to your wanting to switch one of the CAE's back and forth between two tanks on a regular basis, to handle algae growth? If yes, then the answer would be no. The only way to have them be identical or nearly identical is by cross-mixing of water between the two tanks so both tanks have a mix of water from the other tank. Our rudimentary testing is only a very small snapshot of just those test results. There are so many other chemical compounds in our tanks water that we are not able to test for at our level. All of these have an effect on the osmoregulatory system and changing a fish from one water type to another water type without an acclimation period could cause osmotic shock issues and/or health issues so it's best to not do this without acclimation. More than likely, your water's will be similar enough but there's no way to know for certain. However, if you did do the cross-mixing of water between the two tanks, then that would insure that the water's from both tanks are nearly identical and then you would not have to do the acclimation process. On a related issue, your test results for Nitrates (NO3-) is kind of high (nothing to be alarmed about, just above where you would like it) BUT if your nitrates are reaching this level on a regular basis, this could be the cause of your algae issues. You should strive to keep your Nitrates between 5 and 20ppm in a planted tank and do a PWC (or series of PWC's) whenever they reach 40ppm. If this is happening faster than your weekly PWC schedule, then it is an indicator that a tank is overstocked, overfed or under maintained in other areas like filter maintenance, gravel vacuuming, etc. I'm not saying that any of these are your issues... it's just a generalized statement for others reading this, since you already indicated you are a few days late on your PWC. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of noura_taweel Sent: Wednesday, December 02, 2009 5:54 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Water Testing Hi, Can I consider my two tanks "Identical" in water chemistry if these numbers were the same in BOTH tanks ? NO3 50 NO2 0 GH about 14 KH 6 pH 8-8,4 I just did the chemical tests, right before the PWC of both tanks, which is a few days later than the usual schedule. Noura,

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 44829	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 12/2/2009
Subject: Issues with snails

Okay so for some reason when I put my mystery snails in my 125 gallon tank downstairs they slowly die. I can't tell why they are dieing. My water tests only show nitrates showing a number, and the number was close to 30ppm (due for this weeks PWC and filter cleaning), which high-ish nitrates kill a snail? I have crushed coral and all that in the filter just like in my 55 gallon tank, and the water parameters are similar to the 55 gallon that I grow the snails in. The only thing I can think of is that they are not finding enough food in that huge tank and they are slowly starving to death. I try to feed more but that doesn't seem to be helping. All I know is that I keep finding the snails floating and very stinky and very dead. I lost one last week and found another one today. I still have about 7 active and healthy adults in the tank, so I'm not sure what's going on. Any theories? Amber

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 44830	From: Lainey Alexander	Date: 12/2/2009
Subject: Re: Issues with snails

Amber - I had the same thing happening, all my snails and shrimp would die in my water. To make a very long story short: it turned out to be my potassium water softener. Apparently when you put inverts into water with lots of potassium (from a softener) they dehydrate or something similar to that. I saw many similar cases online. Now I use non- softened water and snails and shrimp are just fine. Could it be something like that? Lainey http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com On Dec 2, 2009, at 5:55 PM, Amber Berglund wrote: > Okay so for some reason when I put my mystery snails in my 125 gallon > tank downstairs they slowly die. I can't tell why they are dieing. My > water tests only show nitrates showing a number, and the number was > close to 30ppm (due for this weeks PWC and filter cleaning), which > high-ish nitrates kill a snail? I have crushed coral and all that > in the > filter just like in my 55 gallon tank, and the water parameters are > similar to the 55 gallon that I grow the snails in. The only thing > I can > think of is that they are not finding enough food in that huge tank > and > they are slowly starving to death. I try to feed more but that doesn't > seem to be helping. > All I know is that I keep finding the snails floating and very stinky > and very dead. I lost one last week and found another one today. I > still > have about 7 active and healthy adults in the tank, so I'm not sure > what's going on. > Any theories? > > Amber > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 44831	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 12/2/2009
Subject: U.S. Senate Bill - S 373 - Python Ban threatens ALL pet ownership --

Click the first CapWiz link below and fill out the online form and send your opposition to your Senators NOW!!! Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: Patti Strand [mailto:naia@...] Sent: Wednesday, December 02, 2009 4:16 PM To: Leonard Vasbinder Subject: Python Ban threatens ALL pet ownership -- write your Senator today! TAKE ACTION! Python Ban threatens ALL pet ownership -- write your Senator today! Senate Considers Python Ban http://capwiz.com/naiatrust/utr/1/DBRHLRUOPD/OSRBLRVGNE/4337311861 Take Action! Oppose S 373 December 2, 2009 Senator Bill Nelson (D-Florida) has sponsored S 373, a bill that takes a Florida-specific issue to the national stage where it could have a devastating effect on the reptile owning community while further eroding pet owners rights in America. S 373 would add all snakes of the species Python genera to the "injurious wildlife" list under the Lacey Act, which would effectively ban the shipping or importing of Pythons into the United States, as well as export and interstate movement. Click here to read the text of the bill. <http://capwiz.com/naiatrust/utr/1/DBRHLRUOPD/MCFPLRVGNF/4337311861> A hearing is scheduled before the Senate Committee on Environment and Public Works Subcommittee on Water & Wildlife on Thursday, December 3rd, 2009. Please voice your concerns by sending an email to your Senator urging them not to support this overreaching and harmful concept. Any additions to the Lacey Act should be based on peer-reviewed scientific consensus. Unfortunately, this bill appears to rest on questionable science and biased generalizations about the impact and safety of pythons - and all exotic pets for that matter - being kept in America. Groups like HSUS and others heavily backing this legislation are capitalizing on public fears that flare up after tragic isolated events and the sensational headlines that follow. NAIA supports private breeding and ownership of exotic animals under regulations that provide for their welfare and, if necessary, protect public safety. NAIA also believes that those who continue to educate themselves about the needs of their animals and keep them in a manner that is appropriate to the animals and society should be allowed to keep them. There is limited space available for housing rare animals at zoos and preserves, so private citizens who have acquired special admiration for and detailed knowledge of particular species and who maintain the animals at their own expense are invaluable to the preservation of many exotic species. NAIA therefore supports the responsible ownership of exotics, partnerships between private owners and institutions working to save endangered species, permit systems for certain species that pose a public safety threat, and science-based regulatory mechanisms designed as needed. NAIA also encourages professional organizations that work to raise the level of care, handling, and training of these animals. Please help us protect the right to own and safely keep reptiles that have been scientifically deemed appropriate for private ownership and trade in America. Write your Senators today. If you received this email from a friend, be sure to sign up HERE t <http://capwiz.com/naiatrust/utr/1/DBRHLRUOPD/IBHKLRVGNG/4337311861> o receive NAIA Trust alerts in the future about important animal legislation in your state -- and nationally. JOIN OUR 18 YEAR MOVEMENT DONATE TO NAIA TRUST TODAY! <http://capwiz.com/naiatrust/utr/1/DBRHLRUOPD/LYOULRVGNH/4337311861>

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 44832	From: N Taweel	Date: 12/2/2009
Subject: Re: Water Testing

Hmm... The issue is indeed related to switching the Golden CAE between the two tanks JUST untill I purchased the suitable snail, which is not evailable yet. I don't think that the Nitrates are the cause of the algae growth in the 6G, simply because the 20G -which often tests for the higher NO3 number than the 6G, and is very lightly planted- doesn't contain noticeable algae. While the 6G only suffers of tiny green alge on the glass due to the window light (not direct sunlight anyway), which gives a dirty unpleasant sight of the colorful guppies' tnak. Anyway, I'm planning to move the CAE back to his 20G home after doing the propper acclimation, and he may not have to go back to the 6G again if the snail made a fast arrival (that sounds a bit controversial!), OR if I managed to scrub the algae off the glass by using a white piece of tissue, and bear the sight of the remaining corners covered with algae. Noura ----- Original Message ----- From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Wednesday, December 02, 2009 4:32 PM Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Water Testing I'm guessing this is in relation to your wanting to switch one of the CAE's back and forth between two tanks on a regular basis, to handle algae growth? If yes, then the answer would be no. The only way to have them be identical or nearly identical is by cross-mixing of water between the two tanks so both tanks have a mix of water from the other tank. Our rudimentary testing is only a very small snapshot of just those test results. There are so many other chemical compounds in our tanks water that we are not able to test for at our level. All of these have an effect on the osmoregulatory system and changing a fish from one water type to another water type without an acclimation period could cause osmotic shock issues and/or health issues so it's best to not do this without acclimation. More than likely, your water's will be similar enough but there's no way to know for certain. However, if you did do the cross-mixing of water between the two tanks, then that would insure that the water's from both tanks are nearly identical and then you would not have to do the acclimation process. On a related issue, your test results for Nitrates (NO3-) is kind of high (nothing to be alarmed about, just above where you would like it) BUT if your nitrates are reaching this level on a regular basis, this could be the cause of your algae issues. You should strive to keep your Nitrates between 5 and 20ppm in a planted tank and do a PWC (or series of PWC's) whenever they reach 40ppm. If this is happening faster than your weekly PWC schedule, then it is an indicator that a tank is overstocked, overfed or under maintained in other areas like filter maintenance, gravel vacuuming, etc. I'm not saying that any of these are your issues... it's just a generalized statement for others reading this, since you already indicated you are a few days late on your PWC. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of noura_taweel Sent: Wednesday, December 02, 2009 5:54 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Water Testing Hi, Can I consider my two tanks "Identical" in water chemistry if these numbers were the same in BOTH tanks ? NO3 50 NO2 0 GH about 14 KH 6 pH 8-8,4 I just did the chemical tests, right before the PWC of both tanks, which is a few days later than the usual schedule. Noura, [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 44833	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 12/2/2009
Subject: Re: Issues with snails

Could there be something in there that is harassing them? I think the higher nitrates could be a factor if I'm not mistaken, although I'm not sure that 30ppm would be high enough. I seem to recall from reading the Applesnail site when I first got my Mystery Snails back in 2005, that they did act like a bellwether for water quality issues... but once again, I'm not sure that 30ppm would be bad enough to cause them harm BUT if that is the only material difference between the water parameters, then maybe it could be. As far as them getting enough food, can't you put something in the big tank that only they would like, like a piece of romaine lettuce or a spinach leaf... or would their other tank mates eat that too? You could anchor that down after dark and pick it up the next day. If you put it in a place where the snails hang out most... or in the same area all the time, they'll slowly learn where it's at and find their way. Or maybe you'll have to put two pieces in to give them a better chance of finding it. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Amber Berglund Sent: Wednesday, December 02, 2009 4:56 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Issues with snails Okay so for some reason when I put my mystery snails in my 125 gallon tank downstairs they slowly die. I can't tell why they are dieing. My water tests only show nitrates showing a number, and the number was close to 30ppm (due for this weeks PWC and filter cleaning), which high-ish nitrates kill a snail? I have crushed coral and all that in the filter just like in my 55 gallon tank, and the water parameters are similar to the 55 gallon that I grow the snails in. The only thing I can think of is that they are not finding enough food in that huge tank and they are slowly starving to death. I try to feed more but that doesn't seem to be helping. All I know is that I keep finding the snails floating and very stinky and very dead. I lost one last week and found another one today. I still have about 7 active and healthy adults in the tank, so I'm not sure what's going on. Any theories? Amber

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 44834	From: amejia1976	Date: 12/2/2009
Subject: Planted Aquarium

Hello everyone; Need some help. I am new to the aquarium hobby and have a few questions. This is for a Tropical Freshwater 70 gallon setup: I intend to replace a second hand wet/dry filter system with a Marineland 400 - Everyone at the store tells me its a good one but we all know store ppl sometimes bend the truth a bit. Any first hand experiences will be welcome. Second, I would like to have plants. What are some simple easy to care for plants I can use. Will the gravel I have work or is there other types of substrate recommended. Last but not least; lighting. I have a 2 bulb ballast - what is lighting recommation? Thanks all for your help. Alex

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 44835	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 12/2/2009
Subject: Re: Water Testing

Well, natural sunlight, even if not direct sun beam type lighting, will cause algae to grow MUCH faster than artificial lighting, even with low nitrogenous compound levels. Your best bet would be to limit the amount of natural sunlight that the 6G tank gets. If the 6G is square/rectangular, then I would use an old credit card or other type of tool to scrape the algae off the glass. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of N Taweel Sent: Wednesday, December 02, 2009 4:32 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Water Testing Hmm... The issue is indeed related to switching the Golden CAE between the two tanks JUST untill I purchased the suitable snail, which is not evailable yet. I don't think that the Nitrates are the cause of the algae growth in the 6G, simply because the 20G -which often tests for the higher NO3 number than the 6G, and is very lightly planted- doesn't contain noticeable algae. While the 6G only suffers of tiny green alge on the glass due to the window light (not direct sunlight anyway), which gives a dirty unpleasant sight of the colorful guppies' tnak. Anyway, I'm planning to move the CAE back to his 20G home after doing the propper acclimation, and he may not have to go back to the 6G again if the snail made a fast arrival (that sounds a bit controversial!), OR if I managed to scrub the algae off the glass by using a white piece of tissue, and bear the sight of the remaining corners covered with algae. Noura ----- Original Message ----- From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Wednesday, December 02, 2009 4:32 PM Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Water Testing I'm guessing this is in relation to your wanting to switch one of the CAE's back and forth between two tanks on a regular basis, to handle algae growth? If yes, then the answer would be no. The only way to have them be identical or nearly identical is by cross-mixing of water between the two tanks so both tanks have a mix of water from the other tank. Our rudimentary testing is only a very small snapshot of just those test results. There are so many other chemical compounds in our tanks water that we are not able to test for at our level. All of these have an effect on the osmoregulatory system and changing a fish from one water type to another water type without an acclimation period could cause osmotic shock issues and/or health issues so it's best to not do this without acclimation. More than likely, your water's will be similar enough but there's no way to know for certain. However, if you did do the cross-mixing of water between the two tanks, then that would insure that the water's from both tanks are nearly identical and then you would not have to do the acclimation process. On a related issue, your test results for Nitrates (NO3-) is kind of high (nothing to be alarmed about, just above where you would like it) BUT if your nitrates are reaching this level on a regular basis, this could be the cause of your algae issues. You should strive to keep your Nitrates between 5 and 20ppm in a planted tank and do a PWC (or series of PWC's) whenever they reach 40ppm. If this is happening faster than your weekly PWC schedule, then it is an indicator that a tank is overstocked, overfed or under maintained in other areas like filter maintenance, gravel vacuuming, etc. I'm not saying that any of these are your issues... it's just a generalized statement for others reading this, since you already indicated you are a few days late on your PWC. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of noura_taweel Sent: Wednesday, December 02, 2009 5:54 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Water Testing Hi, Can I consider my two tanks "Identical" in water chemistry if these numbers were the same in BOTH tanks ? NO3 50 NO2 0 GH about 14 KH 6 pH 8-8,4 I just did the chemical tests, right before the PWC of both tanks, which is a few days later than the usual schedule. Noura,

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 44836	From: harry perry	Date: 12/2/2009
Subject: Re: Issues with snails/Amber

Did you compare the pH of the two tanks?. Try that and let us know. Harry --- On Wed, 12/2/09, Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@...> wrote: From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@...> Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Issues with snails To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Date: Wednesday, December 2, 2009, 8:46 PM   Could there be something in there that is harassing them? I think the higher nitrates could be a factor if I'm not mistaken, although I'm not sure that 30ppm would be high enough. I seem to recall from reading the Applesnail site when I first got my Mystery Snails back in 2005, that they did act like a bellwether for water quality issues... but once again, I'm not sure that 30ppm would be bad enough to cause them harm BUT if that is the only material difference between the water parameters, then maybe it could be. As far as them getting enough food, can't you put something in the big tank that only they would like, like a piece of romaine lettuce or a spinach leaf... or would their other tank mates eat that too? You could anchor that down after dark and pick it up the next day. If you put it in a place where the snails hang out most... or in the same area all the time, they'll slowly learn where it's at and find their way. Or maybe you'll have to put two pieces in to give them a better chance of finding it. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com [mailto:AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com] On Behalf Of Amber Berglund Sent: Wednesday, December 02, 2009 4:56 PM To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com Subject: [AquaticLife] Issues with snails Okay so for some reason when I put my mystery snails in my 125 gallon tank downstairs they slowly die. I can't tell why they are dieing. My water tests only show nitrates showing a number, and the number was close to 30ppm (due for this weeks PWC and filter cleaning), which high-ish nitrates kill a snail? I have crushed coral and all that in the filter just like in my 55 gallon tank, and the water parameters are similar to the 55 gallon that I grow the snails in. The only thing I can think of is that they are not finding enough food in that huge tank and they are slowly starving to death. I try to feed more but that doesn't seem to be helping. All I know is that I keep finding the snails floating and very stinky and very dead. I lost one last week and found another one today. I still have about 7 active and healthy adults in the tank, so I'm not sure what's going on. Any theories? Amber [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 44837	From: harry perry	Date: 12/2/2009
Subject: Re: Issues with snails/Amber/another thought

We have been playing with ideas on algae control and adding Co2 to combat it. Ph swings are common with DIY systems even spikes and crashes. You might want to look into this. Harry --- On Wed, 12/2/09, harry perry <harryfisherman@...> wrote: From: harry perry <harryfisherman@...> Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Issues with snails/Amber To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Date: Wednesday, December 2, 2009, 9:38 PM   Did you compare the pH of the two tanks?. Try that and let us know. Harry --- On Wed, 12/2/09, Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@gmail. com> wrote: From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@gmail. com> Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Issues with snails To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com Date: Wednesday, December 2, 2009, 8:46 PM   Could there be something in there that is harassing them? I think the higher nitrates could be a factor if I'm not mistaken, although I'm not sure that 30ppm would be high enough. I seem to recall from reading the Applesnail site when I first got my Mystery Snails back in 2005, that they did act like a bellwether for water quality issues... but once again, I'm not sure that 30ppm would be bad enough to cause them harm BUT if that is the only material difference between the water parameters, then maybe it could be. As far as them getting enough food, can't you put something in the big tank that only they would like, like a piece of romaine lettuce or a spinach leaf... or would their other tank mates eat that too? You could anchor that down after dark and pick it up the next day. If you put it in a place where the snails hang out most... or in the same area all the time, they'll slowly learn where it's at and find their way. Or maybe you'll have to put two pieces in to give them a better chance of finding it. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com [mailto:AquaticLife @ yahoogroups. com] On Behalf Of Amber Berglund Sent: Wednesday, December 02, 2009 4:56 PM To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com Subject: [AquaticLife] Issues with snails Okay so for some reason when I put my mystery snails in my 125 gallon tank downstairs they slowly die. I can't tell why they are dieing. My water tests only show nitrates showing a number, and the number was close to 30ppm (due for this weeks PWC and filter cleaning), which high-ish nitrates kill a snail? I have crushed coral and all that in the filter just like in my 55 gallon tank, and the water parameters are similar to the 55 gallon that I grow the snails in. The only thing I can think of is that they are not finding enough food in that huge tank and they are slowly starving to death. I try to feed more but that doesn't seem to be helping. All I know is that I keep finding the snails floating and very stinky and very dead. I lost one last week and found another one today. I still have about 7 active and healthy adults in the tank, so I'm not sure what's going on. Any theories? Amber [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 44838	From: harry perry	Date: 12/2/2009
Subject: Re: Issues with snails/Amber/another thought/Also

Are the snails dieing in the same tank you are treating for BBA. The BBA isn't doing it but maybe the treatment is. Harry --- On Wed, 12/2/09, harry perry <harryfisherman@...> wrote: From: harry perry <harryfisherman@...> Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Issues with snails/Amber/another thought To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Date: Wednesday, December 2, 2009, 9:54 PM   We have been playing with ideas on algae control and adding Co2 to combat it. Ph swings are common with DIY systems even spikes and crashes. You might want to look into this. Harry --- On Wed, 12/2/09, harry perry <harryfisherman@ yahoo.com> wrote: From: harry perry <harryfisherman@ yahoo.com> Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Issues with snails/Amber To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com Date: Wednesday, December 2, 2009, 9:38 PM ﾂ� Did you compare the pH of the two tanks?. Try that and let us know. Harry --- On Wed, 12/2/09, Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@gmail. com> wrote: From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@gmail. com> Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Issues with snails To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com Date: Wednesday, December 2, 2009, 8:46 PM ﾃつ� Could there be something in there that is harassing them? I think the higher nitrates could be a factor if I'm not mistaken, although I'm not sure that 30ppm would be high enough. I seem to recall from reading the Applesnail site when I first got my Mystery Snails back in 2005, that they did act like a bellwether for water quality issues... but once again, I'm not sure that 30ppm would be bad enough to cause them harm BUT if that is the only material difference between the water parameters, then maybe it could be. As far as them getting enough food, can't you put something in the big tank that only they would like, like a piece of romaine lettuce or a spinach leaf... or would their other tank mates eat that too? You could anchor that down after dark and pick it up the next day. If you put it in a place where the snails hang out most... or in the same area all the time, they'll slowly learn where it's at and find their way. Or maybe you'll have to put two pieces in to give them a better chance of finding it. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com [mailto:AquaticLife @ yahoogroups. com] On Behalf Of Amber Berglund Sent: Wednesday, December 02, 2009 4:56 PM To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com Subject: [AquaticLife] Issues with snails Okay so for some reason when I put my mystery snails in my 125 gallon tank downstairs they slowly die. I can't tell why they are dieing. My water tests only show nitrates showing a number, and the number was close to 30ppm (due for this weeks PWC and filter cleaning), which high-ish nitrates kill a snail? I have crushed coral and all that in the filter just like in my 55 gallon tank, and the water parameters are similar to the 55 gallon that I grow the snails in. The only thing I can think of is that they are not finding enough food in that huge tank and they are slowly starving to death. I try to feed more but that doesn't seem to be helping. All I know is that I keep finding the snails floating and very stinky and very dead. I lost one last week and found another one today. I still have about 7 active and healthy adults in the tank, so I'm not sure what's going on. Any theories? Amber [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 44839	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 12/2/2009
Subject: Re: Issues with snails/Amber

I haven't tested the pH recently, but figured it shouldn't be lower than 7, as that's where it was sitting after I added the crushed coral, I just haven't tested recently. My 55 gallon is usually around 7.2 pH. I didn't think .2 would be that drastic of a difference for them, but perhaps. The only fish that is considered "semi-aggressive" is my severum, and he's harmless toward everything, he spends his time trying to get my attention to feed him, rather than searching for food inside the tank ;) LOL. I can't see the guppy's harassing and killing them unless I have one nasty male guppy in that tank, I have guppy's in the 55 gallon breeding like crazy, so if I was going to have snail deaths from the guppy's I'd be having them in that tank too. I have a "talking catfish" in that tank, but I haven't seen it in months (alive or dead), but it always used to hide and was hard to spot, now that the tank is really over grown there are more hiding spots. Do they pick on fish? Amber harry perry wrote: > > > Did you compare the pH of the two tanks?. Try that and let us know. > > Harry > > --- On Wed, 12/2/09, Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@... > <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com>> wrote: > > From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@... > <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com>> > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Issues with snails > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Date: Wednesday, December 2, 2009, 8:46 PM > > > > Could there be something in there that is harassing them? I think the > > higher nitrates could be a factor if I'm not mistaken, although I'm > not sure > > that 30ppm would be high enough. I seem to recall from reading the > > Applesnail site when I first got my Mystery Snails back in 2005, that they > > did act like a bellwether for water quality issues... but once again, I'm > > not sure that 30ppm would be bad enough to cause them harm BUT if that is > > the only material difference between the water parameters, then maybe it > > could be. > > As far as them getting enough food, can't you put something in the big > tank > > that only they would like, like a piece of romaine lettuce or a spinach > > leaf... or would their other tank mates eat that too? You could anchor > that > > down after dark and pick it up the next day. If you put it in a place > where > > the snails hang out most... or in the same area all the time, they'll > slowly > > learn where it's at and find their way. Or maybe you'll have to put two > > pieces in to give them a better chance of finding it. > > Lenny Vasbinder > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com > > (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right > > side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) > > -----Original Message----- > > From: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com [mailto:AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. > com] On > > Behalf Of Amber Berglund > > Sent: Wednesday, December 02, 2009 4:56 PM > > To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com > > Subject: [AquaticLife] Issues with snails > > Okay so for some reason when I put my mystery snails in my 125 gallon tank > > downstairs they slowly die. I can't tell why they are dieing. My water > tests > > only show nitrates showing a number, and the number was close to 30ppm > (due > > for this weeks PWC and filter cleaning), which high-ish nitrates kill a > > snail? I have crushed coral and all that in the filter just like in my 55 > > gallon tank, and the water parameters are similar to the 55 gallon that I > > grow the snails in. The only thing I can think of is that they are not > > finding enough food in that huge tank and they are slowly starving to > death. > > I try to feed more but that doesn't seem to be helping. > > All I know is that I keep finding the snails floating and very stinky and > > very dead. I lost one last week and found another one today. I still have > > about 7 active and healthy adults in the tank, so I'm not sure what's > going > > on. > > Any theories? > > Amber > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 44840	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 12/2/2009
Subject: Re: Issues with snails/Amber/another thought

I haven't added any Co2 to that system, including flourish, so there shouldn't be any pH swings/crashes. Amber harry perry wrote: > > > We have been playing with ideas on algae control and adding Co2 to > combat it. Ph swings are common with DIY systems even spikes and > crashes. You might want to look into this. > > Harry > > --- On Wed, 12/2/09, harry perry <harryfisherman@... > <mailto:harryfisherman%40yahoo.com>> wrote: > > From: harry perry <harryfisherman@... > <mailto:harryfisherman%40yahoo.com>> > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Issues with snails/Amber > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Date: Wednesday, December 2, 2009, 9:38 PM > > > > Did you compare the pH of the two tanks?. Try that and let us know. > > Harry > > --- On Wed, 12/2/09, Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@gmail. com> wrote: > > From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@gmail. com> > > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Issues with snails > > To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com > > Date: Wednesday, December 2, 2009, 8:46 PM > > Â > > Could there be something in there that is harassing them? I think the > > higher nitrates could be a factor if I'm not mistaken, although I'm > not sure > > that 30ppm would be high enough. I seem to recall from reading the > > Applesnail site when I first got my Mystery Snails back in 2005, that they > > did act like a bellwether for water quality issues... but once again, I'm > > not sure that 30ppm would be bad enough to cause them harm BUT if that is > > the only material difference between the water parameters, then maybe it > > could be. > > As far as them getting enough food, can't you put something in the big > tank > > that only they would like, like a piece of romaine lettuce or a spinach > > leaf... or would their other tank mates eat that too? You could anchor > that > > down after dark and pick it up the next day. If you put it in a place > where > > the snails hang out most... or in the same area all the time, they'll > slowly > > learn where it's at and find their way. Or maybe you'll have to put two > > pieces in to give them a better chance of finding it. > > Lenny Vasbinder > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com > > (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right > > side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) > > -----Original Message----- > > From: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com [mailto:AquaticLife @ yahoogroups. > com] On > > Behalf Of Amber Berglund > > Sent: Wednesday, December 02, 2009 4:56 PM > > To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com > > Subject: [AquaticLife] Issues with snails > > Okay so for some reason when I put my mystery snails in my 125 gallon tank > > downstairs they slowly die. I can't tell why they are dieing. My water > tests > > only show nitrates showing a number, and the number was close to 30ppm > (due > > for this weeks PWC and filter cleaning), which high-ish nitrates kill a > > snail? I have crushed coral and all that in the filter just like in my 55 > > gallon tank, and the water parameters are similar to the 55 gallon that I > > grow the snails in. The only thing I can think of is that they are not > > finding enough food in that huge tank and they are slowly starving to > death. > > I try to feed more but that doesn't seem to be helping. > > All I know is that I keep finding the snails floating and very stinky and > > very dead. I lost one last week and found another one today. I still have > > about 7 active and healthy adults in the tank, so I'm not sure what's > going > > on. > > Any theories? > > Amber > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 44841	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 12/2/2009
Subject: Re: Issues with snails/Amber/another thought/Also

No, haven't lost any snails in my 55 gallon that I am dosing with flourish excel to get rid of BBA. Amber harry perry wrote: > > > Are the snails dieing in the same tank you are treating for BBA. The > BBA isn't doing it but maybe the treatment is. > > Harry > > --- On Wed, 12/2/09, harry perry <harryfisherman@... > <mailto:harryfisherman%40yahoo.com>> wrote: > > From: harry perry <harryfisherman@... > <mailto:harryfisherman%40yahoo.com>> > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Issues with snails/Amber/another thought > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Date: Wednesday, December 2, 2009, 9:54 PM > > > > We have been playing with ideas on algae control and adding Co2 to > combat it. Ph swings are common with DIY systems even spikes and > crashes. You might want to look into this. > > Harry > > --- On Wed, 12/2/09, harry perry <harryfisherman@ yahoo.com> wrote: > > From: harry perry <harryfisherman@ yahoo.com> > > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Issues with snails/Amber > > To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com > > Date: Wednesday, December 2, 2009, 9:38 PM > > ﾂ� > > Did you compare the pH of the two tanks?. Try that and let us know. > > Harry > > --- On Wed, 12/2/09, Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@gmail. com> wrote: > > From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@gmail. com> > > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Issues with snails > > To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com > > Date: Wednesday, December 2, 2009, 8:46 PM > > ﾃつ� > > Could there be something in there that is harassing them? I think the > > higher nitrates could be a factor if I'm not mistaken, although I'm > not sure > > that 30ppm would be high enough. I seem to recall from reading the > > Applesnail site when I first got my Mystery Snails back in 2005, that they > > did act like a bellwether for water quality issues... but once again, I'm > > not sure that 30ppm would be bad enough to cause them harm BUT if that is > > the only material difference between the water parameters, then maybe it > > could be. > > As far as them getting enough food, can't you put something in the big > tank > > that only they would like, like a piece of romaine lettuce or a spinach > > leaf... or would their other tank mates eat that too? You could anchor > that > > down after dark and pick it up the next day. If you put it in a place > where > > the snails hang out most... or in the same area all the time, they'll > slowly > > learn where it's at and find their way. Or maybe you'll have to put two > > pieces in to give them a better chance of finding it. > > Lenny Vasbinder > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com > > (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right > > side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) > > -----Original Message----- > > From: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com [mailto:AquaticLife @ yahoogroups. > com] On > > Behalf Of Amber Berglund > > Sent: Wednesday, December 02, 2009 4:56 PM > > To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com > > Subject: [AquaticLife] Issues with snails > > Okay so for some reason when I put my mystery snails in my 125 gallon tank > > downstairs they slowly die. I can't tell why they are dieing. My water > tests > > only show nitrates showing a number, and the number was close to 30ppm > (due > > for this weeks PWC and filter cleaning), which high-ish nitrates kill a > > snail? I have crushed coral and all that in the filter just like in my 55 > > gallon tank, and the water parameters are similar to the 55 gallon that I > > grow the snails in. The only thing I can think of is that they are not > > finding enough food in that huge tank and they are slowly starving to > death. > > I try to feed more but that doesn't seem to be helping. > > All I know is that I keep finding the snails floating and very stinky and > > very dead. I lost one last week and found another one today. I still have > > about 7 active and healthy adults in the tank, so I'm not sure what's > going > > on. > > Any theories? > > Amber > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 44842	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 12/2/2009
Subject: Re: Issues with snails

The problem with feeding the mystery snails is that I also feed the MTS at the same time, and they breed like crazy if they have a lot of food to eat. I sometimes have to scoop them out by the handfulls just to get rid of some. Amber Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > > Could there be something in there that is harassing them? I think the > higher nitrates could be a factor if I'm not mistaken, although I'm > not sure > that 30ppm would be high enough. I seem to recall from reading the > Applesnail site when I first got my Mystery Snails back in 2005, that they > did act like a bellwether for water quality issues... but once again, I'm > not sure that 30ppm would be bad enough to cause them harm BUT if that is > the only material difference between the water parameters, then maybe it > could be. > > As far as them getting enough food, can't you put something in the big > tank > that only they would like, like a piece of romaine lettuce or a spinach > leaf... or would their other tank mates eat that too? You could anchor > that > down after dark and pick it up the next day. If you put it in a place > where > the snails hang out most... or in the same area all the time, they'll > slowly > learn where it's at and find their way. Or maybe you'll have to put two > pieces in to give them a better chance of finding it. > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right > side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On > Behalf Of Amber Berglund > Sent: Wednesday, December 02, 2009 4:56 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Subject: [AquaticLife] Issues with snails > > Okay so for some reason when I put my mystery snails in my 125 gallon tank > downstairs they slowly die. I can't tell why they are dieing. My water > tests > only show nitrates showing a number, and the number was close to 30ppm > (due > for this weeks PWC and filter cleaning), which high-ish nitrates kill a > snail? I have crushed coral and all that in the filter just like in my 55 > gallon tank, and the water parameters are similar to the 55 gallon that I > grow the snails in. The only thing I can think of is that they are not > finding enough food in that huge tank and they are slowly starving to > death. > I try to feed more but that doesn't seem to be helping. > All I know is that I keep finding the snails floating and very stinky and > very dead. I lost one last week and found another one today. I still have > about 7 active and healthy adults in the tank, so I'm not sure what's > going > on. > Any theories? > > Amber > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 44843	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 12/2/2009
Subject: Re: Issues with snails

i don't use a water softener, I already have very soft water and have to add crushed coral to buffer my tanks properly or I will end up with a pH crash. According to the research I did, my water should be hard enough for the snails with the added crushed coral. I think I'm going to have to test all my water parameters again to double check them, do my PWC and stuff and see how it goes after that. The snails have only been in the tank for about a week, so it's possible that they were ill before I put them there, but I doubt it. Amber Lainey Alexander wrote: > Amber - > > I had the same thing happening, all my snails and shrimp would die > in my water. To make a very long story short: it turned out to be my > potassium water softener. Apparently when you put inverts into water > with lots of potassium (from a softener) they dehydrate or something > similar to that. I saw many similar cases online. Now I use non- > softened water and snails and shrimp are just fine. > > Could it be something like that? > > Lainey > http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com > > On Dec 2, 2009, at 5:55 PM, Amber Berglund wrote: > > >> Okay so for some reason when I put my mystery snails in my 125 gallon >> tank downstairs they slowly die. I can't tell why they are dieing. My >> water tests only show nitrates showing a number, and the number was >> close to 30ppm (due for this weeks PWC and filter cleaning), which >> high-ish nitrates kill a snail? I have crushed coral and all that >> in the >> filter just like in my 55 gallon tank, and the water parameters are >> similar to the 55 gallon that I grow the snails in. The only thing >> I can >> think of is that they are not finding enough food in that huge tank >> and >> they are slowly starving to death. I try to feed more but that doesn't >> seem to be helping. >> All I know is that I keep finding the snails floating and very stinky >> and very dead. I lost one last week and found another one today. I >> still >> have about 7 active and healthy adults in the tank, so I'm not sure >> what's going on. >> Any theories? >> >> Amber >> >> > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > ------------------------------------ > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. > ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> > PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- > <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. > > If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the home page. > > Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com to receive the digest, which includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email > > Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com for the No E-Mail option where you will still be able to read messages on the group and post replies. > > Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com to receive individual e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links > > > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 44844	From: harry perry	Date: 12/2/2009
Subject: Re: Issues with snails/Amber/again

Only a wide pH swing would cause problems. I suspect the crushed coral is for calcium for the snails?. Talking catfish?.... Ask him if he has any issues with snails.  I don't think he would bother them. Maybe they just aren't getting enough food. Harry --- On Wed, 12/2/09, Amber Berglund <arberglund@...> wrote: From: Amber Berglund <arberglund@...> Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Issues with snails/Amber To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Date: Wednesday, December 2, 2009, 9:58 PM   I haven't tested the pH recently, but figured it shouldn't be lower than 7, as that's where it was sitting after I added the crushed coral, I just haven't tested recently. My 55 gallon is usually around 7.2 pH. I didn't think .2 would be that drastic of a difference for them, but perhaps. The only fish that is considered "semi-aggressive" is my severum, and he's harmless toward everything, he spends his time trying to get my attention to feed him, rather than searching for food inside the tank ;) LOL. I can't see the guppy's harassing and killing them unless I have one nasty male guppy in that tank, I have guppy's in the 55 gallon breeding like crazy, so if I was going to have snail deaths from the guppy's I'd be having them in that tank too. I have a "talking catfish" in that tank, but I haven't seen it in months (alive or dead), but it always used to hide and was hard to spot, now that the tank is really over grown there are more hiding spots. Do they pick on fish? Amber harry perry wrote: > > > Did you compare the pH of the two tanks?. Try that and let us know. > > Harry > > --- On Wed, 12/2/09, Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@gmail. com > <mailto:GoldLenny% 40gmail.com> > wrote: > > From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@gmail. com > <mailto:GoldLenny% 40gmail.com> > > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Issues with snails > To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com <mailto:AquaticLife %40yahoogroups. com> > Date: Wednesday, December 2, 2009, 8:46 PM > > > > Could there be something in there that is harassing them? I think the > > higher nitrates could be a factor if I'm not mistaken, although I'm > not sure > > that 30ppm would be high enough. I seem to recall from reading the > > Applesnail site when I first got my Mystery Snails back in 2005, that they > > did act like a bellwether for water quality issues... but once again, I'm > > not sure that 30ppm would be bad enough to cause them harm BUT if that is > > the only material difference between the water parameters, then maybe it > > could be. > > As far as them getting enough food, can't you put something in the big > tank > > that only they would like, like a piece of romaine lettuce or a spinach > > leaf... or would their other tank mates eat that too? You could anchor > that > > down after dark and pick it up the next day. If you put it in a place > where > > the snails hang out most... or in the same area all the time, they'll > slowly > > learn where it's at and find their way. Or maybe you'll have to put two > > pieces in to give them a better chance of finding it. > > Lenny Vasbinder > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com > > (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right > > side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) > > -----Original Message----- > > From: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com [mailto:AquaticLife @ yahoogroups. > com] On > > Behalf Of Amber Berglund > > Sent: Wednesday, December 02, 2009 4:56 PM > > To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com > > Subject: [AquaticLife] Issues with snails > > Okay so for some reason when I put my mystery snails in my 125 gallon tank > > downstairs they slowly die. I can't tell why they are dieing. My water > tests > > only show nitrates showing a number, and the number was close to 30ppm > (due > > for this weeks PWC and filter cleaning), which high-ish nitrates kill a > > snail? I have crushed coral and all that in the filter just like in my 55 > > gallon tank, and the water parameters are similar to the 55 gallon that I > > grow the snails in. The only thing I can think of is that they are not > > finding enough food in that huge tank and they are slowly starving to > death. > > I try to feed more but that doesn't seem to be helping. > > All I know is that I keep finding the snails floating and very stinky and > > very dead. I lost one last week and found another one today. I still have > > about 7 active and healthy adults in the tank, so I'm not sure what's > going > > on. > > Any theories? > > Amber > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 44845	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 12/2/2009
Subject: Re: Issues with snails/Amber/again

It's both calcium and a buffer for hardness levels (as I mentioned in a response to someone else on this subject). I have very soft tap water so I have to buffer my tanks with crushed coral (or something similar) to keep my hardness levels up high enough so the tank doesn't have a pH crash. If I don't put crushed coral in my tanks I have no hardness (0 for GH and KH to be precise) and my pH is 6.1, which is way too low for snails/shrimp on both levels (pH and hardness). I'll try asking the catfish if he's picking on my snails, but I bet the only answer I get is, "grrr" from picking it up out of the water to ask it a question, LOL. Amber harry perry wrote: > > > Only a wide pH swing would cause problems. I suspect the crushed coral > is for calcium for the snails?. > > Talking catfish?.... Ask him if he has any issues with snails. > > I don't think he would bother them. > > Maybe they just aren't getting enough food. > > Harry > > --- On Wed, 12/2/09, Amber Berglund <arberglund@... > <mailto:arberglund%40gmail.com>> wrote: > > From: Amber Berglund <arberglund@... > <mailto:arberglund%40gmail.com>> > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Issues with snails/Amber > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Date: Wednesday, December 2, 2009, 9:58 PM > > > > I haven't tested the pH recently, but figured it shouldn't be lower than > > 7, as that's where it was sitting after I added the crushed coral, I > > just haven't tested recently. My 55 gallon is usually around 7.2 pH. I > > didn't think .2 would be that drastic of a difference for them, but > > perhaps. > > The only fish that is considered "semi-aggressive" is my severum, and > > he's harmless toward everything, he spends his time trying to get my > > attention to feed him, rather than searching for food inside the tank ;) > > LOL. > > I can't see the guppy's harassing and killing them unless I have one > > nasty male guppy in that tank, I have guppy's in the 55 gallon breeding > > like crazy, so if I was going to have snail deaths from the guppy's I'd > > be having them in that tank too. > > I have a "talking catfish" in that tank, but I haven't seen it in months > > (alive or dead), but it always used to hide and was hard to spot, now > > that the tank is really over grown there are more hiding spots. Do they > > pick on fish? > > Amber > > harry perry wrote: > > > > > > > > > Did you compare the pH of the two tanks?. Try that and let us know. > > > > > > Harry > > > > > > --- On Wed, 12/2/09, Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@gmail. com > > > <mailto:GoldLenny% 40gmail.com> > wrote: > > > > > > From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@gmail. com > > > <mailto:GoldLenny% 40gmail.com> > > > > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Issues with snails > > > To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com <mailto:AquaticLife > %40yahoogroups. com> > > > Date: Wednesday, December 2, 2009, 8:46 PM > > > > > > > > > > > > Could there be something in there that is harassing them? I think the > > > > > > higher nitrates could be a factor if I'm not mistaken, although I'm > > > not sure > > > > > > that 30ppm would be high enough. I seem to recall from reading the > > > > > > Applesnail site when I first got my Mystery Snails back in 2005, > that they > > > > > > did act like a bellwether for water quality issues... but once > again, I'm > > > > > > not sure that 30ppm would be bad enough to cause them harm BUT if > that is > > > > > > the only material difference between the water parameters, then maybe it > > > > > > could be. > > > > > > As far as them getting enough food, can't you put something in the big > > > tank > > > > > > that only they would like, like a piece of romaine lettuce or a spinach > > > > > > leaf... or would their other tank mates eat that too? You could anchor > > > that > > > > > > down after dark and pick it up the next day. If you put it in a place > > > where > > > > > > the snails hang out most... or in the same area all the time, they'll > > > slowly > > > > > > learn where it's at and find their way. Or maybe you'll have to put two > > > > > > pieces in to give them a better chance of finding it. > > > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > > > > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com > > > > > > (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right > > > > > > side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, > Month) > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > > > > From: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com [mailto:AquaticLife @ yahoogroups. > > > com] On > > > > > > Behalf Of Amber Berglund > > > > > > Sent: Wednesday, December 02, 2009 4:56 PM > > > > > > To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com > > > > > > Subject: [AquaticLife] Issues with snails > > > > > > Okay so for some reason when I put my mystery snails in my 125 > gallon tank > > > > > > downstairs they slowly die. I can't tell why they are dieing. My water > > > tests > > > > > > only show nitrates showing a number, and the number was close to 30ppm > > > (due > > > > > > for this weeks PWC and filter cleaning), which high-ish nitrates kill a > > > > > > snail? I have crushed coral and all that in the filter just like in > my 55 > > > > > > gallon tank, and the water parameters are similar to the 55 gallon > that I > > > > > > grow the snails in. The only thing I can think of is that they are not > > > > > > finding enough food in that huge tank and they are slowly starving to > > > death. > > > > > > I try to feed more but that doesn't seem to be helping. > > > > > > All I know is that I keep finding the snails floating and very > stinky and > > > > > > very dead. I lost one last week and found another one today. I still > have > > > > > > about 7 active and healthy adults in the tank, so I'm not sure what's > > > going > > > > > > on. > > > > > > Any theories? > > > > > > Amber > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 44846	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 12/2/2009
Subject: Re: Planted Aquarium

Do you happen to know what your bulbs are? both the watts and type of bulbs. I have never used the marineland 400 so I can't give any advice on that. Your current "normal" gravel will work fine for easy to care for, low light requirement, plants, so as long as you don't want anything bright red and you're happy with all green and easy to care for plants then you should be fine. Also if you have regular fluorescent lighting you may have to upgrade to a higher lighting depending on the wattage of the bulbs, so we will need to know what type and wattage. compact fluorescent bulbs have a much higher light output but they don't come standard on tank kits (such as the 55 gallon tank kit you can get at walmart, it comes with standard fluorescent bulbs), but if the light fixture was purchase separately it could be one of several different types of bulbs. Hopefully there's some sort of marking on the bulbs to help you tell what kind they are. Amber amejia1976 wrote: > > Hello everyone; > > Need some help. I am new to the aquarium hobby and have a few > questions. This is for a Tropical Freshwater 70 gallon setup: > > I intend to replace a second hand wet/dry filter system with a > Marineland 400 - Everyone at the store tells me its a good one but we > all know store ppl sometimes bend the truth a bit. Any first hand > experiences will be welcome. > > Second, I would like to have plants. What are some simple easy to care > for plants I can use. Will the gravel I have work or is there other > types of substrate recommended. > > Last but not least; lighting. I have a 2 bulb ballast - what is > lighting recommation? > > Thanks all for your help. > > Alex > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 44847	From: harry perry	Date: 12/2/2009
Subject: Re: Issues with snails/O.K.

"I sometimes have to scoop them out by the hand fulls just to get rid of some" You might have to do a good job of eradicating the MTS first. Sounds like a a competitive situation for food. Put down lettuce leaves in several areas. Weight them down. Just before "lights out". And pick up the leaves before "lights on", do this several times. Harry --- On Wed, 12/2/09, Amber Berglund <arberglund@...> wrote: From: Amber Berglund <arberglund@...> Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Issues with snails To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Date: Wednesday, December 2, 2009, 10:06 PM The problem with feeding the mystery snails is that I also feed the MTS at the same time, and they breed like crazy if they have a lot of food to eat. I sometimes have to scoop them out by the handfulls just to get rid of some. Amber Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > > Could there be something in there that is harassing them? I think the > higher nitrates could be a factor if I'm not mistaken, although I'm > not sure > that 30ppm would be high enough. I seem to recall from reading the > Applesnail site when I first got my Mystery Snails back in 2005, that they > did act like a bellwether for water quality issues... but once again, I'm > not sure that 30ppm would be bad enough to cause them harm BUT if that is > the only material difference between the water parameters, then maybe it > could be. > > As far as them getting enough food, can't you put something in the big > tank > that only they would like, like a piece of romaine lettuce or a spinach > leaf... or would their other tank mates eat that too? You could anchor > that > down after dark and pick it up the next day. If you put it in a place > where > the snails hang out most... or in the same area all the time, they'll > slowly > learn where it's at and find their way. Or maybe you'll have to put two > pieces in to give them a better chance of finding it. > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right > side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On > Behalf Of Amber Berglund > Sent: Wednesday, December 02, 2009 4:56 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Subject: [AquaticLife] Issues with snails > > Okay so for some reason when I put my mystery snails in my 125 gallon tank > downstairs they slowly die. I can't tell why they are dieing. My water > tests > only show nitrates showing a number, and the number was close to 30ppm > (due > for this weeks PWC and filter cleaning), which high-ish nitrates kill a > snail? I have crushed coral and all that in the filter just like in my 55 > gallon tank, and the water parameters are similar to the 55 gallon that I > grow the snails in. The only thing I can think of is that they are not > finding enough food in that huge tank and they are slowly starving to > death. > I try to feed more but that doesn't seem to be helping. > All I know is that I keep finding the snails floating and very stinky and > very dead. I lost one last week and found another one today. I still have > about 7 active and healthy adults in the tank, so I'm not sure what's > going > on. > Any theories? > > Amber > > ------------------------------------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the home page.  Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com to receive the digest, which includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com for the No E-Mail option where you will still be able to read messages on the group and post replies. Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com to receive individual e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 44848	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 12/2/2009
Subject: Re: Issues with snails

Well, the same piece of lettuce/spinach could be used as snail trap for the MTS. Just pluck the Mystery Snails off the leaf and then pick up the leaf with all the MTS on it and do what you do with them. Maybe your friend that likes escargot could make some MTSoup with them. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Amber Berglund Sent: Wednesday, December 02, 2009 9:06 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Issues with snails The problem with feeding the mystery snails is that I also feed the MTS at the same time, and they breed like crazy if they have a lot of food to eat. I sometimes have to scoop them out by the handfulls just to get rid of some. Amber Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > > Could there be something in there that is harassing them? I think the > higher nitrates could be a factor if I'm not mistaken, although I'm > not sure that 30ppm would be high enough. I seem to recall from > reading the Applesnail site when I first got my Mystery Snails back in > 2005, that they did act like a bellwether for water quality issues... > but once again, I'm not sure that 30ppm would be bad enough to cause > them harm BUT if that is the only material difference between the > water parameters, then maybe it could be. > > As far as them getting enough food, can't you put something in the big > tank that only they would like, like a piece of romaine lettuce or a > spinach leaf... or would their other tank mates eat that too? You > could anchor that down after dark and pick it up the next day. If you > put it in a place where the snails hang out most... or in the same > area all the time, they'll slowly learn where it's at and find their > way. Or maybe you'll have to put two pieces in to give them a better > chance of finding it. > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> (Links to any articles referenced in > above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels > and also under Archives by Year, Month) > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On Behalf Of Amber Berglund > Sent: Wednesday, December 02, 2009 4:56 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Subject: [AquaticLife] Issues with snails > > Okay so for some reason when I put my mystery snails in my 125 gallon > tank downstairs they slowly die. I can't tell why they are dieing. My > water tests only show nitrates showing a number, and the number was > close to 30ppm (due for this weeks PWC and filter cleaning), which > high-ish nitrates kill a snail? I have crushed coral and all that in > the filter just like in my 55 gallon tank, and the water parameters > are similar to the 55 gallon that I grow the snails in. The only thing > I can think of is that they are not finding enough food in that huge > tank and they are slowly starving to death. > I try to feed more but that doesn't seem to be helping. > All I know is that I keep finding the snails floating and very stinky > and very dead. I lost one last week and found another one today. I > still have about 7 active and healthy adults in the tank, so I'm not > sure what's going on. > Any theories? > > Amber

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 44849	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 12/2/2009
Subject: Re: Issues with snails/Amber/again

Yeah... he has issues with them. He keeps asking them what kind of snails they are and they never answer... so it's a "Mystery" to him. Ba-da-bump! ;-) On a more serious note... whenever you are having fish/snail health questions, running ALL tests is always a good idea. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of harry perry Sent: Wednesday, December 02, 2009 9:12 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Issues with snails/Amber/again Only a wide pH swing would cause problems. I suspect the crushed coral is for calcium for the snails?. Talking catfish?.... Ask him if he has any issues with snails.  I don't think he would bother them. Maybe they just aren't getting enough food. Harry --- On Wed, 12/2/09, Amber Berglund <arberglund@...> wrote: From: Amber Berglund <arberglund@...> Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Issues with snails/Amber To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Date: Wednesday, December 2, 2009, 9:58 PM I haven't tested the pH recently, but figured it shouldn't be lower than 7, as that's where it was sitting after I added the crushed coral, I just haven't tested recently. My 55 gallon is usually around 7.2 pH. I didn't think .2 would be that drastic of a difference for them, but perhaps. The only fish that is considered "semi-aggressive" is my severum, and he's harmless toward everything, he spends his time trying to get my attention to feed him, rather than searching for food inside the tank ;) LOL. I can't see the guppy's harassing and killing them unless I have one nasty male guppy in that tank, I have guppy's in the 55 gallon breeding like crazy, so if I was going to have snail deaths from the guppy's I'd be having them in that tank too. I have a "talking catfish" in that tank, but I haven't seen it in months (alive or dead), but it always used to hide and was hard to spot, now that the tank is really over grown there are more hiding spots. Do they pick on fish? Amber harry perry wrote: > > > Did you compare the pH of the two tanks?. Try that and let us know. > > Harry > > --- On Wed, 12/2/09, Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@gmail. com > <mailto:GoldLenny% 40gmail.com> > wrote: > > From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@gmail. com > <mailto:GoldLenny% 40gmail.com> > > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Issues with snails > To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com <mailto:AquaticLife %40yahoogroups. > com> > Date: Wednesday, December 2, 2009, 8:46 PM > > > > Could there be something in there that is harassing them? I think the > > higher nitrates could be a factor if I'm not mistaken, although I'm > not sure > > that 30ppm would be high enough. I seem to recall from reading the > > Applesnail site when I first got my Mystery Snails back in 2005, that > they > > did act like a bellwether for water quality issues... but once again, > I'm > > not sure that 30ppm would be bad enough to cause them harm BUT if that > is > > the only material difference between the water parameters, then maybe > it > > could be. > > As far as them getting enough food, can't you put something in the big > tank > > that only they would like, like a piece of romaine lettuce or a > spinach > > leaf... or would their other tank mates eat that too? You could anchor > that > > down after dark and pick it up the next day. If you put it in a place > where > > the snails hang out most... or in the same area all the time, they'll > slowly > > learn where it's at and find their way. Or maybe you'll have to put > two > > pieces in to give them a better chance of finding it. > > Lenny Vasbinder > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com > > (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the > right > > side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, > Month) > > -----Original Message----- > > From: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com [mailto:AquaticLife @ yahoogroups. > com] On > > Behalf Of Amber Berglund > > Sent: Wednesday, December 02, 2009 4:56 PM > > To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com > > Subject: [AquaticLife] Issues with snails > > Okay so for some reason when I put my mystery snails in my 125 gallon > tank > > downstairs they slowly die. I can't tell why they are dieing. My water > tests > > only show nitrates showing a number, and the number was close to 30ppm > (due > > for this weeks PWC and filter cleaning), which high-ish nitrates kill > a > > snail? I have crushed coral and all that in the filter just like in my > 55 > > gallon tank, and the water parameters are similar to the 55 gallon > that I > > grow the snails in. The only thing I can think of is that they are not > > finding enough food in that huge tank and they are slowly starving to > death. > > I try to feed more but that doesn't seem to be helping. > > All I know is that I keep finding the snails floating and very stinky > and > > very dead. I lost one last week and found another one today. I still > have > > about 7 active and healthy adults in the tank, so I'm not sure what's > going > > on. > > Any theories? > > Amber > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] ------------------------------------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. `..><((((>.`..`.><((((> .`.. , .`..><((((> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <((((><.`..`.<((((><.`.. , .`..<((((><`.. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the home page. Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com to receive the digest, which includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com for the No E-Mail option where you will still be able to read messages on the group and post replies. Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com to receive individual e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 44850	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 12/2/2009
Subject: Re: Issues with snails/Amber/again

Why do you have to pick it up? Why can't you slam your face down into the water and ask it? Goonie-goo-goo! (Google it if you don't get that one! LOL Or click here... Parental Advisory though... http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=awrfIReVQtA starts at 2:35 for the above reference) Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Amber Berglund Sent: Wednesday, December 02, 2009 9:19 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Issues with snails/Amber/again It's both calcium and a buffer for hardness levels (as I mentioned in a response to someone else on this subject). I have very soft tap water so I have to buffer my tanks with crushed coral (or something similar) to keep my hardness levels up high enough so the tank doesn't have a pH crash. If I don't put crushed coral in my tanks I have no hardness (0 for GH and KH to be precise) and my pH is 6.1, which is way too low for snails/shrimp on both levels (pH and hardness). I'll try asking the catfish if he's picking on my snails, but I bet the only answer I get is, "grrr" from picking it up out of the water to ask it a question, LOL. Amber harry perry wrote: > > > Only a wide pH swing would cause problems. I suspect the crushed coral > is for calcium for the snails?. > > Talking catfish?.... Ask him if he has any issues with snails. > > I don't think he would bother them. > > Maybe they just aren't getting enough food. > > Harry > > --- On Wed, 12/2/09, Amber Berglund <arberglund@... > <mailto:arberglund%40gmail.com>> wrote: > > From: Amber Berglund <arberglund@... > <mailto:arberglund%40gmail.com>> > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Issues with snails/Amber > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Date: Wednesday, December 2, 2009, 9:58 PM > > > > I haven't tested the pH recently, but figured it shouldn't be lower > than > > 7, as that's where it was sitting after I added the crushed coral, I > > just haven't tested recently. My 55 gallon is usually around 7.2 pH. I > > didn't think .2 would be that drastic of a difference for them, but > > perhaps. > > The only fish that is considered "semi-aggressive" is my severum, and > > he's harmless toward everything, he spends his time trying to get my > > attention to feed him, rather than searching for food inside the tank > ;) > > LOL. > > I can't see the guppy's harassing and killing them unless I have one > > nasty male guppy in that tank, I have guppy's in the 55 gallon > breeding > > like crazy, so if I was going to have snail deaths from the guppy's > I'd > > be having them in that tank too. > > I have a "talking catfish" in that tank, but I haven't seen it in > months > > (alive or dead), but it always used to hide and was hard to spot, now > > that the tank is really over grown there are more hiding spots. Do > they > > pick on fish? > > Amber > > harry perry wrote: > > > > > > > > > Did you compare the pH of the two tanks?. Try that and let us know. > > > > > > Harry > > > > > > --- On Wed, 12/2/09, Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@gmail. com > > > <mailto:GoldLenny% 40gmail.com> > wrote: > > > > > > From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@gmail. com > > > <mailto:GoldLenny% 40gmail.com> > > > > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Issues with snails > > > To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com <mailto:AquaticLife > %40yahoogroups. com> > > > Date: Wednesday, December 2, 2009, 8:46 PM > > > > > > > > > > > > Could there be something in there that is harassing them? I think > > the > > > > > > higher nitrates could be a factor if I'm not mistaken, although I'm > > > not sure > > > > > > that 30ppm would be high enough. I seem to recall from reading the > > > > > > Applesnail site when I first got my Mystery Snails back in 2005, > that they > > > > > > did act like a bellwether for water quality issues... but once > again, I'm > > > > > > not sure that 30ppm would be bad enough to cause them harm BUT if > that is > > > > > > the only material difference between the water parameters, then > > maybe it > > > > > > could be. > > > > > > As far as them getting enough food, can't you put something in the > > big > > > tank > > > > > > that only they would like, like a piece of romaine lettuce or a > > spinach > > > > > > leaf... or would their other tank mates eat that too? You could > > anchor > > > that > > > > > > down after dark and pick it up the next day. If you put it in a > > place > > > where > > > > > > the snails hang out most... or in the same area all the time, > > they'll > > > slowly > > > > > > learn where it's at and find their way. Or maybe you'll have to put > > two > > > > > > pieces in to give them a better chance of finding it. > > > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > > > > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com > > > > > > (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the > > right > > > > > > side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, > Month) > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > > > > From: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com [mailto:AquaticLife @ yahoogroups. > > > com] On > > > > > > Behalf Of Amber Berglund > > > > > > Sent: Wednesday, December 02, 2009 4:56 PM > > > > > > To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com > > > > > > Subject: [AquaticLife] Issues with snails > > > > > > Okay so for some reason when I put my mystery snails in my 125 > gallon tank > > > > > > downstairs they slowly die. I can't tell why they are dieing. My > > water > > > tests > > > > > > only show nitrates showing a number, and the number was close to > > 30ppm > > > (due > > > > > > for this weeks PWC and filter cleaning), which high-ish nitrates > > kill a > > > > > > snail? I have crushed coral and all that in the filter just like in > my 55 > > > > > > gallon tank, and the water parameters are similar to the 55 gallon > that I > > > > > > grow the snails in. The only thing I can think of is that they are > > not > > > > > > finding enough food in that huge tank and they are slowly starving > > to > > > death. > > > > > > I try to feed more but that doesn't seem to be helping. > > > > > > All I know is that I keep finding the snails floating and very > stinky and > > > > > > very dead. I lost one last week and found another one today. I still > have > > > > > > about 7 active and healthy adults in the tank, so I'm not sure > > what's > > > going > > > > > > on. > > > > > > Any theories? > > > > > > Amber > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > ------------------------------------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. `..><((((>.`..`.><((((> .`.. , .`..><((((> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <((((><.`..`.<((((><.`.. , .`..<((((><`.. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the home page. Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com to receive the digest, which includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com for the No E-Mail option where you will still be able to read messages on the group and post replies. Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com to receive individual e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 44851	From: amejia1976	Date: 12/2/2009
Subject: Re: Planted Aquarium

The bulbs say the following: All Glass Aquarium - Aquarium Lamp - Rapid Start 25w It is 35 inches long and 3 inches around or 1 inch across. As for the plants I'd like to have something that is green most if not all of the time; not bright green but green enough. --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, Amber Berglund <arberglund@...> wrote: > > Do you happen to know what your bulbs are? both the watts and type of bulbs. > I have never used the marineland 400 so I can't give any advice on that. > Your current "normal" gravel will work fine for easy to care for, low > light requirement, plants, so as long as you don't want anything bright > red and you're happy with all green and easy to care for plants then you > should be fine. Also if you have regular fluorescent lighting you may > have to upgrade to a higher lighting depending on the wattage of the > bulbs, so we will need to know what type and wattage. compact > fluorescent bulbs have a much higher light output but they don't come > standard on tank kits (such as the 55 gallon tank kit you can get at > walmart, it comes with standard fluorescent bulbs), but if the light > fixture was purchase separately it could be one of several different > types of bulbs. Hopefully there's some sort of marking on the bulbs to > help you tell what kind they are. > > Amber > > amejia1976 wrote: > > > > Hello everyone; > > > > Need some help. I am new to the aquarium hobby and have a few > > questions. This is for a Tropical Freshwater 70 gallon setup: > > > > I intend to replace a second hand wet/dry filter system with a > > Marineland 400 - Everyone at the store tells me its a good one but we > > all know store ppl sometimes bend the truth a bit. Any first hand > > experiences will be welcome. > > > > Second, I would like to have plants. What are some simple easy to care > > for plants I can use. Will the gravel I have work or is there other > > types of substrate recommended. > > > > Last but not least; lighting. I have a 2 bulb ballast - what is > > lighting recommation? > > > > Thanks all for your help. > > > > Alex > > > > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 44852	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 12/2/2009
Subject: Re: Planted Aquarium

Those look like standard fluorescent bulbs, which means you don't have enough light output for plants with that light fixture. You would want at least 1 watt per gallon minimum for low light easy plants, preferably closer to 2 watts per gallon. So you will have to look at upgrading your lighting to have live plants. Also before you buy fish you need to know about the nitrifying bacteria and cycling a tank properly (insert your link here Lenny, LOL). So before you run right out and buy fish make sure you know how to cycle your tank properly so you don't end up spending twice as much on fish because you have to replace all of them when they die (trust me you don't want to do it the hard way, it costs too much, LOL. I did and spent a lot of time and suffering and money figuring out what I was doing wrong for a month). Amber amejia1976 wrote: > > The bulbs say the following: > > All Glass Aquarium - Aquarium Lamp - Rapid Start 25w > It is 35 inches long and 3 inches around or 1 inch across. > > As for the plants I'd like to have something that is green most if not > all of the time; not bright green but green enough. > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>, Amber Berglund > <arberglund@...> wrote: > > > > Do you happen to know what your bulbs are? both the watts and type > of bulbs. > > I have never used the marineland 400 so I can't give any advice on that. > > Your current "normal" gravel will work fine for easy to care for, low > > light requirement, plants, so as long as you don't want anything bright > > red and you're happy with all green and easy to care for plants then > you > > should be fine. Also if you have regular fluorescent lighting you may > > have to upgrade to a higher lighting depending on the wattage of the > > bulbs, so we will need to know what type and wattage. compact > > fluorescent bulbs have a much higher light output but they don't come > > standard on tank kits (such as the 55 gallon tank kit you can get at > > walmart, it comes with standard fluorescent bulbs), but if the light > > fixture was purchase separately it could be one of several different > > types of bulbs. Hopefully there's some sort of marking on the bulbs to > > help you tell what kind they are. > > > > Amber > > > > amejia1976 wrote: > > > > > > Hello everyone; > > > > > > Need some help. I am new to the aquarium hobby and have a few > > > questions. This is for a Tropical Freshwater 70 gallon setup: > > > > > > I intend to replace a second hand wet/dry filter system with a > > > Marineland 400 - Everyone at the store tells me its a good one but we > > > all know store ppl sometimes bend the truth a bit. Any first hand > > > experiences will be welcome. > > > > > > Second, I would like to have plants. What are some simple easy to > care > > > for plants I can use. Will the gravel I have work or is there other > > > types of substrate recommended. > > > > > > Last but not least; lighting. I have a 2 bulb ballast - what is > > > lighting recommation? > > > > > > Thanks all for your help. > > > > > > Alex > > > > > > > > > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 44853	From: amejia1976	Date: 12/2/2009
Subject: Re: Planted Aquarium

Yea, I already learned about the cycling of the tank - the hard way as u said :( lost some guppies, Mollies and emeral Cory's when i moved them from a healthy 10 gallong tank - so I am now learning all I can before I shell out more $$$$. This is one of the reason I am moving to a power filter rather than wet/dry as my Nitrates are way high. To change the bulbs; will I need a new ballast/holder? Or will I be able to find higher output bulbs in same length? --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, Amber Berglund <arberglund@...> wrote: > > Those look like standard fluorescent bulbs, which means you don't have > enough light output for plants with that light fixture. You would want > at least 1 watt per gallon minimum for low light easy plants, preferably > closer to 2 watts per gallon. So you will have to look at upgrading your > lighting to have live plants. > Also before you buy fish you need to know about the nitrifying bacteria > and cycling a tank properly (insert your link here Lenny, LOL). So > before you run right out and buy fish make sure you know how to cycle > your tank properly so you don't end up spending twice as much on fish > because you have to replace all of them when they die (trust me you > don't want to do it the hard way, it costs too much, LOL. I did and > spent a lot of time and suffering and money figuring out what I was > doing wrong for a month). > > Amber > > amejia1976 wrote: > > > > The bulbs say the following: > > > > All Glass Aquarium - Aquarium Lamp - Rapid Start 25w > > It is 35 inches long and 3 inches around or 1 inch across. > > > > As for the plants I'd like to have something that is green most if not > > all of the time; not bright green but green enough. > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>, Amber Berglund > > <arberglund@> wrote: > > > > > > Do you happen to know what your bulbs are? both the watts and type > > of bulbs. > > > I have never used the marineland 400 so I can't give any advice on that. > > > Your current "normal" gravel will work fine for easy to care for, low > > > light requirement, plants, so as long as you don't want anything bright > > > red and you're happy with all green and easy to care for plants then > > you > > > should be fine. Also if you have regular fluorescent lighting you may > > > have to upgrade to a higher lighting depending on the wattage of the > > > bulbs, so we will need to know what type and wattage. compact > > > fluorescent bulbs have a much higher light output but they don't come > > > standard on tank kits (such as the 55 gallon tank kit you can get at > > > walmart, it comes with standard fluorescent bulbs), but if the light > > > fixture was purchase separately it could be one of several different > > > types of bulbs. Hopefully there's some sort of marking on the bulbs to > > > help you tell what kind they are. > > > > > > Amber > > > > > > amejia1976 wrote: > > > > > > > > Hello everyone; > > > > > > > > Need some help. I am new to the aquarium hobby and have a few > > > > questions. This is for a Tropical Freshwater 70 gallon setup: > > > > > > > > I intend to replace a second hand wet/dry filter system with a > > > > Marineland 400 - Everyone at the store tells me its a good one but we > > > > all know store ppl sometimes bend the truth a bit. Any first hand > > > > experiences will be welcome. > > > > > > > > Second, I would like to have plants. What are some simple easy to > > care > > > > for plants I can use. Will the gravel I have work or is there other > > > > types of substrate recommended. > > > > > > > > Last but not least; lighting. I have a 2 bulb ballast - what is > > > > lighting recommation? > > > > > > > > Thanks all for your help. > > > > > > > > Alex > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 44854	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 12/2/2009
Subject: Re: Planted Aquarium

The ballast is usually only rated for the wattage of the bulbs it currently has, so you will need to upgrade the whole fixture (ballast and all). Unless you're a good electrician and you can swap out the "guts" and replace it with a new light fixture inside the shell of the old light fixture. But you might be able to use a VHO fluorescent bulb of the same wattage, but I don't know how much more light that actually produces compared to a regular fluorescent, does anyone out there know? Also, nitrates are usually high because you have one or several "issues". Either you have a high bioload (lots of fish/snails/shrimp/etc) and need to do more water changes and filter cleanings, or you need to just do more frequent water changing and filter maintenance. Getting live plants will help keep the nitrates lower, so you were on the right track there, you just need to get a little more info for the lighting and such :) What is your water change and filter cleaning schedule and what do you do when you change the water and clean the filter? Also how often do you clean your gravel with the gravel vac? Amber amejia1976 wrote: > > Yea, I already learned about the cycling of the tank - the hard way as > u said :( lost some guppies, Mollies and emeral Cory's when i moved > them from a healthy 10 gallong tank - so I am now learning all I can > before I shell out more $$$$. This is one of the reason I am moving to > a power filter rather than wet/dry as my Nitrates are way high. > > To change the bulbs; will I need a new ballast/holder? Or will I be > able to find higher output bulbs in same length? > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>, Amber Berglund > <arberglund@...> wrote: > > > > Those look like standard fluorescent bulbs, which means you don't have > > enough light output for plants with that light fixture. You would want > > at least 1 watt per gallon minimum for low light easy plants, > preferably > > closer to 2 watts per gallon. So you will have to look at upgrading > your > > lighting to have live plants. > > Also before you buy fish you need to know about the nitrifying bacteria > > and cycling a tank properly (insert your link here Lenny, LOL). So > > before you run right out and buy fish make sure you know how to cycle > > your tank properly so you don't end up spending twice as much on fish > > because you have to replace all of them when they die (trust me you > > don't want to do it the hard way, it costs too much, LOL. I did and > > spent a lot of time and suffering and money figuring out what I was > > doing wrong for a month). > > > > Amber > > > > amejia1976 wrote: > > > > > > The bulbs say the following: > > > > > > All Glass Aquarium - Aquarium Lamp - Rapid Start 25w > > > It is 35 inches long and 3 inches around or 1 inch across. > > > > > > As for the plants I'd like to have something that is green most if > not > > > all of the time; not bright green but green enough. > > > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>, Amber Berglund > > > <arberglund@> wrote: > > > > > > > > Do you happen to know what your bulbs are? both the watts and type > > > of bulbs. > > > > I have never used the marineland 400 so I can't give any advice > on that. > > > > Your current "normal" gravel will work fine for easy to care > for, low > > > > light requirement, plants, so as long as you don't want anything > bright > > > > red and you're happy with all green and easy to care for plants > then > > > you > > > > should be fine. Also if you have regular fluorescent lighting > you may > > > > have to upgrade to a higher lighting depending on the wattage of the > > > > bulbs, so we will need to know what type and wattage. compact > > > > fluorescent bulbs have a much higher light output but they don't > come > > > > standard on tank kits (such as the 55 gallon tank kit you can get at > > > > walmart, it comes with standard fluorescent bulbs), but if the light > > > > fixture was purchase separately it could be one of several different > > > > types of bulbs. Hopefully there's some sort of marking on the > bulbs to > > > > help you tell what kind they are. > > > > > > > > Amber > > > > > > > > amejia1976 wrote: > > > > > > > > > > Hello everyone; > > > > > > > > > > Need some help. I am new to the aquarium hobby and have a few > > > > > questions. This is for a Tropical Freshwater 70 gallon setup: > > > > > > > > > > I intend to replace a second hand wet/dry filter system with a > > > > > Marineland 400 - Everyone at the store tells me its a good one > but we > > > > > all know store ppl sometimes bend the truth a bit. Any first hand > > > > > experiences will be welcome. > > > > > > > > > > Second, I would like to have plants. What are some simple easy to > > > care > > > > > for plants I can use. Will the gravel I have work or is there > other > > > > > types of substrate recommended. > > > > > > > > > > Last but not least; lighting. I have a 2 bulb ballast - what is > > > > > lighting recommation? > > > > > > > > > > Thanks all for your help. > > > > > > > > > > Alex > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 44855	From: caroline cormier	Date: 12/3/2009
Subject: Re: Issues with snails

could someone tell me where lenny is..                    caroline ________________________________ From: Amber Berglund <arberglund@...> To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Wed, December 2, 2009 7:08:39 PM Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Issues with snails   i don't use a water softener, I already have very soft water and have to add crushed coral to buffer my tanks properly or I will end up with a pH crash. According to the research I did, my water should be hard enough for the snails with the added crushed coral. I think I'm going to have to test all my water parameters again to double check them, do my PWC and stuff and see how it goes after that. The snails have only been in the tank for about a week, so it's possible that they were ill before I put them there, but I doubt it. Amber Lainey Alexander wrote: > Amber - > > I had the same thing happening, all my snails and shrimp would die > in my water. To make a very long story short: it turned out to be my > potassium water softener. Apparently when you put inverts into water > with lots of potassium (from a softener) they dehydrate or something > similar to that. I saw many similar cases online. Now I use non- > softened water and snails and shrimp are just fine. > > Could it be something like that? > > Lainey > http://www.grasslan dsgouldians. com > > On Dec 2, 2009, at 5:55 PM, Amber Berglund wrote: > > >> Okay so for some reason when I put my mystery snails in my 125 gallon >> tank downstairs they slowly die. I can't tell why they are dieing. My >> water tests only show nitrates showing a number, and the number was >> close to 30ppm (due for this weeks PWC and filter cleaning), which >> high-ish nitrates kill a snail? I have crushed coral and all that >> in the >> filter just like in my 55 gallon tank, and the water parameters are >> similar to the 55 gallon that I grow the snails in. The only thing >> I can >> think of is that they are not finding enough food in that huge tank >> and >> they are slowly starving to death. I try to feed more but that doesn't >> seem to be helping. >> All I know is that I keep finding the snails floating and very stinky >> and very dead. I lost one last week and found another one today. I >> still >> have about 7 active and healthy adults in the tank, so I'm not sure >> what's going on. >> Any theories? >> >> Amber >> >> > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > ------------ --------- --------- ------ > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. > ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> > PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- > <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. > > If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the home page. > > Or e-mail aquaticlife- digest@yahoogrou ps.com to receive the digest, which includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email > > Or email aquaticlife- nomail@yahoogrou ps.com for the No E-Mail option where you will still be able to read messages on the group and post replies. > > Or email aquaticlife- normal@yahoogrou ps.com to receive individual e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 44856	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 12/3/2009
Subject: Re: where is lenny?? (was: Issues with snails)

Do you mean like my City, State, Address? Google me... there's probably more than you'd ever really want to know but hopefully no pics worthy of the cover of National Enquirer... at least none that I've found. Last time I checked, a Google of my name in quotes comes up with about 9,000 hits so there's plenty to read out there. Luckily, they didn't have all these cell phone cameras around when I was a waskily-wabbit type of younger man. ;-) Although, if people saved all their pictures and video from Mardi Gras (and other costume events... and some events that required nothing at all like http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QTSAqvLHfgE) from the 80's & 90's, they may well have some National Enquirer type photos of me. LOL If you just wanted to know if I was still in the group... yep, I'm still here. ;-) Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of caroline cormier Sent: Thursday, December 03, 2009 3:28 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Issues with snails could someone tell me where lenny is..                    caroline ________________________________ From: Amber Berglund <arberglund@...> To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Wed, December 2, 2009 7:08:39 PM Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Issues with snails   i don't use a water softener, I already have very soft water and have to add crushed coral to buffer my tanks properly or I will end up with a pH crash. According to the research I did, my water should be hard enough for the snails with the added crushed coral. I think I'm going to have to test all my water parameters again to double check them, do my PWC and stuff and see how it goes after that. The snails have only been in the tank for about a week, so it's possible that they were ill before I put them there, but I doubt it. Amber Lainey Alexander wrote: > Amber - > > I had the same thing happening, all my snails and shrimp would die in > my water. To make a very long story short: it turned out to be my > potassium water softener. Apparently when you put inverts into water > with lots of potassium (from a softener) they dehydrate or something > similar to that. I saw many similar cases online. Now I use non- > softened water and snails and shrimp are just fine. > > Could it be something like that? > > Lainey > http://www.grasslan dsgouldians. com > > On Dec 2, 2009, at 5:55 PM, Amber Berglund wrote: > > >> Okay so for some reason when I put my mystery snails in my 125 gallon >> tank downstairs they slowly die. I can't tell why they are dieing. My >> water tests only show nitrates showing a number, and the number was >> close to 30ppm (due for this weeks PWC and filter cleaning), which >> high-ish nitrates kill a snail? I have crushed coral and all that in >> the filter just like in my 55 gallon tank, and the water parameters >> are similar to the 55 gallon that I grow the snails in. The only >> thing I can think of is that they are not finding enough food in that >> huge tank and they are slowly starving to death. I try to feed more >> but that doesn't seem to be helping. >> All I know is that I keep finding the snails floating and very stinky >> and very dead. I lost one last week and found another one today. I >> still have about 7 active and healthy adults in the tank, so I'm not >> sure what's going on. >> Any theories? >> >> Amber

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 44857	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 12/3/2009
Subject: Re: Planted Aquarium

I would probably go with a canister filter system instead of an HOB system. Yes, the Marineland series and Bio-wheels are good filter systems but for bigger tanks, a canister is a much better choice for moving water and having more filter media to handle the waste... AND IT'S A LOT CHEAPER to clean filter media in a canister system than trying to clean and/or replace the little cartridges in an HOB system. I (and others out here) LOVE the Rena Filstar xP- versions of canister filters. Depending on the type of fish and the tank's ecology/bioload and how much water movement you need, you could go with something as small as the xP-1 and as large as the xP-4. Probably a 2 or 3 would be sufficient and the water flow can be dialed down if you buy one that seems like too much. If you do decide to go with the Marineland 400, go to my blog and look at my Filter Profile on my Marineland 200 so you can see some different ways to modify the cartridges so you can reuse them over and over instead of buying new ones all the time. I'm still using the original cartridge in my Marineland 200 from about five years ago. As far a plants... while at my blog, check out my blog on "Planted Tank..." and you'll see lists of easy to grow, low light plants and articles about substrates, etc. I just use regular gravel like pea gravel, although I do still have some of that "pretty" colored gravel in one of my tanks. I like the natural look of pea gravel, especially in a planted tank since most people usually want a planted tank to look natural... and it's a LOT cheaper too since you can get bags at a garden center of a big-box home repair store or Walmart. If you have fish that are rough on plants, like goldfish, then planting your plants in small clay pots or other types of containers will give them a better chance. I think Amber and others have asked you about your lighting system, bulb sizes, etc. I use "Daylight" type fluorescent bulbs with shop light fixtures on my bigger tank although I do have a "Plant-Gro" bulb on my 10G Cherry Shrimp tank. I like the color of the Daylight bulb and my plants do fine without spending the extra money for Plant-Gro type bulbs. Also give us measurements on your tank. Footprint and height in this formula: L (long side) x W (front to back) x H (height of tank). If it's a hex or other shape, give us the height and other measurements. The reason I ask is that taller tanks may need better lighting than normal tanks. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of amejia1976 Sent: Wednesday, December 02, 2009 5:56 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Planted Aquarium Hello everyone; Need some help. I am new to the aquarium hobby and have a few questions. This is for a Tropical Freshwater 70 gallon setup: I intend to replace a second hand wet/dry filter system with a Marineland 400 - Everyone at the store tells me its a good one but we all know store ppl sometimes bend the truth a bit. Any first hand experiences will be welcome. Second, I would like to have plants. What are some simple easy to care for plants I can use. Will the gravel I have work or is there other types of substrate recommended. Last but not least; lighting. I have a 2 bulb ballast - what is lighting recommation? Thanks all for your help. Alex

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 44858	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 12/3/2009
Subject: Re: Planted Aquarium

I think she said she has two ballasts so I'm guessing she has two bulbs or even four bulbs. We need more info. This page, found with a random Google search, http://www.aloha-aquariums.com/servlet/the-3442/All-Glass-Fluorescent-Aquari um/Detail shows that All-Glass makes a 36" long, 25 watt bulb and the "details" say, "All-Glass Aquarium fluorescent replacement lamps are the perfect high quality solution for your replacement lamp needs. These energy efficient, T-8 fluorescent lamps have been engineered to provide an appealing and effective aquarium spectrum light. The 8,000K lamps highlight the vivid colors of aquatic plants and animals." I think this also fits in with what we were talking about in one of Bill's recent threads and the T-8 matches the "one inch across" measurements (since each T-number represents 1/8" so a T-8 is equal to 8/8" or 1"). If you have two of these bulbs and the tank is not too tall... hopefully it's a 4' long tank and not a 3' long tank... then that would probably be enough lighting. There are also higher 30 watt T-12 bulbs that would possibly/probably fit in that same fixture. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Amber Berglund Sent: Wednesday, December 02, 2009 11:56 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: Planted Aquarium Those look like standard fluorescent bulbs, which means you don't have enough light output for plants with that light fixture. You would want at least 1 watt per gallon minimum for low light easy plants, preferably closer to 2 watts per gallon. So you will have to look at upgrading your lighting to have live plants. Also before you buy fish you need to know about the nitrifying bacteria and cycling a tank properly (insert your link here Lenny, LOL). So before you run right out and buy fish make sure you know how to cycle your tank properly so you don't end up spending twice as much on fish because you have to replace all of them when they die (trust me you don't want to do it the hard way, it costs too much, LOL. I did and spent a lot of time and suffering and money figuring out what I was doing wrong for a month). Amber amejia1976 wrote: > > The bulbs say the following: > > All Glass Aquarium - Aquarium Lamp - Rapid Start 25w It is 35 inches > long and 3 inches around or 1 inch across. > > As for the plants I'd like to have something that is green most if not > all of the time; not bright green but green enough. > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>, Amber Berglund > <arberglund@...> wrote: > > > > Do you happen to know what your bulbs are? both the watts and type > of bulbs. > > I have never used the marineland 400 so I can't give any advice on that. > > Your current "normal" gravel will work fine for easy to care for, > > low light requirement, plants, so as long as you don't want anything > > bright red and you're happy with all green and easy to care for > > plants then > you > > should be fine. Also if you have regular fluorescent lighting you > > may have to upgrade to a higher lighting depending on the wattage of > > the bulbs, so we will need to know what type and wattage. compact > > fluorescent bulbs have a much higher light output but they don't > > come standard on tank kits (such as the 55 gallon tank kit you can > > get at walmart, it comes with standard fluorescent bulbs), but if > > the light fixture was purchase separately it could be one of several > > different types of bulbs. Hopefully there's some sort of marking on > > the bulbs to help you tell what kind they are. > > > > Amber > > > > amejia1976 wrote: > > > > > > Hello everyone; > > > > > > Need some help. I am new to the aquarium hobby and have a few > > > questions. This is for a Tropical Freshwater 70 gallon setup: > > > > > > I intend to replace a second hand wet/dry filter system with a > > > Marineland 400 - Everyone at the store tells me its a good one but > > > we all know store ppl sometimes bend the truth a bit. Any first > > > hand experiences will be welcome. > > > > > > Second, I would like to have plants. What are some simple easy to > care > > > for plants I can use. Will the gravel I have work or is there > > > other types of substrate recommended. > > > > > > Last but not least; lighting. I have a 2 bulb ballast - what is > > > lighting recommation? > > > > > > Thanks all for your help. > > > > > > Alex

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 44859	From: amejia1976	Date: 12/3/2009
Subject: Re: Planted Aquarium

Amber; Had a 10g tank with a 5-15 power filter in it with 3 neon, 1 otto, 3 emerald cory all very happy for over 2 years. Someone gave me a 75g tank with a wet/dry filter. Got it going, new pre-filter sponge, new bio-balls, new post filter sponge - waited 3 weeks for cloudiness to go away and figured all was dandy. Put fish in but found out too late fish could not swim as strong and all got sucked into pre-filter box all the way to sump - rip fishies. So now I decide to get some stronger looking fish; gold mollies and pleco - mollies got ick - treated but left pleco in - pleco was fine for 2 weeks and then went the way of the other fishies :( So I am now getting some learning done. Since pleco died have tested water every week. pH, nitrite and ammonia within good levels; nitrate @ 160 which is way high. For 2 months so far there was no canopy and have had to add at least 2 g of water per week to replace what evaporates and so i have not done any h2o changes since and since there is no fish pooping i have not cleaned gravel. So I go to pet/fishy store and they tell me wet/dry don't do much with nitrate so they suggest power filter...and here i am. As for filter media I clean with tap water once a week My municipal water tests perfect out of tap Sorry for long story - just very frustrated - I see all the prutty setup online and just wonder.... Alex --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, Amber Berglund <arberglund@...> wrote: > > The ballast is usually only rated for the wattage of the bulbs it > currently has, so you will need to upgrade the whole fixture (ballast > and all). Unless you're a good electrician and you can swap out the > "guts" and replace it with a new light fixture inside the shell of the > old light fixture. But you might be able to use a VHO fluorescent bulb > of the same wattage, but I don't know how much more light that actually > produces compared to a regular fluorescent, does anyone out there know? > > Also, nitrates are usually high because you have one or several > "issues". Either you have a high bioload (lots of > fish/snails/shrimp/etc) and need to do more water changes and filter > cleanings, or you need to just do more frequent water changing and > filter maintenance. Getting live plants will help keep the nitrates > lower, so you were on the right track there, you just need to get a > little more info for the lighting and such :) > > What is your water change and filter cleaning schedule and what do you > do when you change the water and clean the filter? Also how often do you > clean your gravel with the gravel vac? > > Amber > > amejia1976 wrote: > > > > Yea, I already learned about the cycling of the tank - the hard way as > > u said :( lost some guppies, Mollies and emeral Cory's when i moved > > them from a healthy 10 gallong tank - so I am now learning all I can > > before I shell out more $$$$. This is one of the reason I am moving to > > a power filter rather than wet/dry as my Nitrates are way high. > > > > To change the bulbs; will I need a new ballast/holder? Or will I be > > able to find higher output bulbs in same length? > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>, Amber Berglund > > <arberglund@> wrote: > > > > > > Those look like standard fluorescent bulbs, which means you don't have > > > enough light output for plants with that light fixture. You would want > > > at least 1 watt per gallon minimum for low light easy plants, > > preferably > > > closer to 2 watts per gallon. So you will have to look at upgrading > > your > > > lighting to have live plants. > > > Also before you buy fish you need to know about the nitrifying bacteria > > > and cycling a tank properly (insert your link here Lenny, LOL). So > > > before you run right out and buy fish make sure you know how to cycle > > > your tank properly so you don't end up spending twice as much on fish > > > because you have to replace all of them when they die (trust me you > > > don't want to do it the hard way, it costs too much, LOL. I did and > > > spent a lot of time and suffering and money figuring out what I was > > > doing wrong for a month). > > > > > > Amber > > > > > > amejia1976 wrote: > > > > > > > > The bulbs say the following: > > > > > > > > All Glass Aquarium - Aquarium Lamp - Rapid Start 25w > > > > It is 35 inches long and 3 inches around or 1 inch across. > > > > > > > > As for the plants I'd like to have something that is green most if > > not > > > > all of the time; not bright green but green enough. > > > > > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>, Amber Berglund > > > > <arberglund@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > Do you happen to know what your bulbs are? both the watts and type > > > > of bulbs. > > > > > I have never used the marineland 400 so I can't give any advice > > on that. > > > > > Your current "normal" gravel will work fine for easy to care > > for, low > > > > > light requirement, plants, so as long as you don't want anything > > bright > > > > > red and you're happy with all green and easy to care for plants > > then > > > > you > > > > > should be fine. Also if you have regular fluorescent lighting > > you may > > > > > have to upgrade to a higher lighting depending on the wattage of the > > > > > bulbs, so we will need to know what type and wattage. compact > > > > > fluorescent bulbs have a much higher light output but they don't > > come > > > > > standard on tank kits (such as the 55 gallon tank kit you can get at > > > > > walmart, it comes with standard fluorescent bulbs), but if the light > > > > > fixture was purchase separately it could be one of several different > > > > > types of bulbs. Hopefully there's some sort of marking on the > > bulbs to > > > > > help you tell what kind they are. > > > > > > > > > > Amber > > > > > > > > > > amejia1976 wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > Hello everyone; > > > > > > > > > > > > Need some help. I am new to the aquarium hobby and have a few > > > > > > questions. This is for a Tropical Freshwater 70 gallon setup: > > > > > > > > > > > > I intend to replace a second hand wet/dry filter system with a > > > > > > Marineland 400 - Everyone at the store tells me its a good one > > but we > > > > > > all know store ppl sometimes bend the truth a bit. Any first hand > > > > > > experiences will be welcome. > > > > > > > > > > > > Second, I would like to have plants. What are some simple easy to > > > > care > > > > > > for plants I can use. Will the gravel I have work or is there > > other > > > > > > types of substrate recommended. > > > > > > > > > > > > Last but not least; lighting. I have a 2 bulb ballast - what is > > > > > > lighting recommation? > > > > > > > > > > > > Thanks all for your help. > > > > > > > > > > > > Alex > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 44860	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 12/3/2009
Subject: Re: Planted Aquarium

Your higher nitrate levels will be helped somewhat by a planted tank but you may also need to be doing more/better tank maintenance with more frequent and proper filter cleaning (see my blog article "Filter Maintenance And Cleaning") and more frequent PWC's (25% partial water changes) and vacuuming your substrate better. Of course, in a planted tank, you will not be able to vacuum the substrate as well as you can in a non-planted tank. The best thing for you to do is bring your light fixture to a local Walmart SuperCenter or big-box home repair center and look at the various T-8 and T-12 standard fluorescent bulbs and see what will fit. They both have standard two pin end caps. Once we know what will fit, then your options open up dramatically. If you are stuck with T-8's, then you will probably be limited to 25W or 30W bulbs. Let us know how many bulbs your fixture will hold. From what you've said, it could be two or four... hopefully four... but two 25W bulbs could also work with some low-light plants... especially floating plants like Anacharis, Hornwort, etc. since they would be up closer to the lighting. If you wanted other planted plants, you might have to put them in containers to raise them off the bottom, closer to the lighting. Once we know more details on your lighting, then we can start looking at the highest possibly lumen bulbs in the proper K(elvin) range of 5,000K - 7,500K, which is what most Daylight bulbs have. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of amejia1976 Sent: Thursday, December 03, 2009 12:07 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Planted Aquarium Yea, I already learned about the cycling of the tank - the hard way as u said :( lost some guppies, Mollies and emeral Cory's when i moved them from a healthy 10 gallong tank - so I am now learning all I can before I shell out more $$$$. This is one of the reason I am moving to a power filter rather than wet/dry as my Nitrates are way high. To change the bulbs; will I need a new ballast/holder? Or will I be able to find higher output bulbs in same length? --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, Amber Berglund <arberglund@...> wrote: > > Those look like standard fluorescent bulbs, which means you don't have > enough light output for plants with that light fixture. You would want > at least 1 watt per gallon minimum for low light easy plants, > preferably closer to 2 watts per gallon. So you will have to look at > upgrading your lighting to have live plants. > Also before you buy fish you need to know about the nitrifying > bacteria and cycling a tank properly (insert your link here Lenny, > LOL). So before you run right out and buy fish make sure you know how > to cycle your tank properly so you don't end up spending twice as much > on fish because you have to replace all of them when they die (trust > me you don't want to do it the hard way, it costs too much, LOL. I did > and spent a lot of time and suffering and money figuring out what I > was doing wrong for a month). > > Amber > > amejia1976 wrote: > > > > The bulbs say the following: > > > > All Glass Aquarium - Aquarium Lamp - Rapid Start 25w It is 35 inches > > long and 3 inches around or 1 inch across. > > > > As for the plants I'd like to have something that is green most if > > not all of the time; not bright green but green enough. > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>, Amber Berglund <arberglund@> > > wrote: > > > > > > Do you happen to know what your bulbs are? both the watts and type > > of bulbs. > > > I have never used the marineland 400 so I can't give any advice on that. > > > Your current "normal" gravel will work fine for easy to care for, > > > low light requirement, plants, so as long as you don't want > > > anything bright red and you're happy with all green and easy to > > > care for plants then > > you > > > should be fine. Also if you have regular fluorescent lighting you > > > may have to upgrade to a higher lighting depending on the wattage > > > of the bulbs, so we will need to know what type and wattage. > > > compact fluorescent bulbs have a much higher light output but they > > > don't come standard on tank kits (such as the 55 gallon tank kit > > > you can get at walmart, it comes with standard fluorescent bulbs), > > > but if the light fixture was purchase separately it could be one > > > of several different types of bulbs. Hopefully there's some sort > > > of marking on the bulbs to help you tell what kind they are. > > > > > > Amber > > > > > > amejia1976 wrote: > > > > > > > > Hello everyone; > > > > > > > > Need some help. I am new to the aquarium hobby and have a few > > > > questions. This is for a Tropical Freshwater 70 gallon setup: > > > > > > > > I intend to replace a second hand wet/dry filter system with a > > > > Marineland 400 - Everyone at the store tells me its a good one > > > > but we all know store ppl sometimes bend the truth a bit. Any > > > > first hand experiences will be welcome. > > > > > > > > Second, I would like to have plants. What are some simple easy > > > > to > > care > > > > for plants I can use. Will the gravel I have work or is there > > > > other types of substrate recommended. > > > > > > > > Last but not least; lighting. I have a 2 bulb ballast - what is > > > > lighting recommation? > > > > > > > > Thanks all for your help. > > > > > > > > Alex

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 44861	From: Rev. Eric Roberts	Date: 12/3/2009
Subject: Re: where is lenny?? (was: Issues with snails)

I'll have to go look hehehehe I went to mardi Gras in NO in 1988 & 1989 while I was stationed at Ft. Polk. Eric From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny Sent: Thursday, December 03, 2009 8:24 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] where is lenny?? (was: Issues with snails) Do you mean like my City, State, Address? Google me... there's probably more than you'd ever really want to know but hopefully no pics worthy of the cover of National Enquirer... at least none that I've found. Last time I checked, a Google of my name in quotes comes up with about 9,000 hits so there's plenty to read out there. Luckily, they didn't have all these cell phone cameras around when I was a waskily-wabbit type of younger man. ;-) Although, if people saved all their pictures and video from Mardi Gras (and other costume events... and some events that required nothing at all like http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QTSAqvLHfgE) from the 80's & 90's, they may well have some National Enquirer type photos of me. LOL If you just wanted to know if I was still in the group... yep, I'm still here. ;-) Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of caroline cormier Sent: Thursday, December 03, 2009 3:28 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Issues with snails could someone tell me where lenny is.. caroline ________________________________ From: Amber Berglund <arberglund@...> To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Wed, December 2, 2009 7:08:39 PM Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Issues with snails i don't use a water softener, I already have very soft water and have to add crushed coral to buffer my tanks properly or I will end up with a pH crash. According to the research I did, my water should be hard enough for the snails with the added crushed coral. I think I'm going to have to test all my water parameters again to double check them, do my PWC and stuff and see how it goes after that. The snails have only been in the tank for about a week, so it's possible that they were ill before I put them there, but I doubt it. Amber Lainey Alexander wrote: > Amber - > > I had the same thing happening, all my snails and shrimp would die in > my water. To make a very long story short: it turned out to be my > potassium water softener. Apparently when you put inverts into water > with lots of potassium (from a softener) they dehydrate or something > similar to that. I saw many similar cases online. Now I use non- > softened water and snails and shrimp are just fine. > > Could it be something like that? > > Lainey > http://www.grasslan dsgouldians. com > > On Dec 2, 2009, at 5:55 PM, Amber Berglund wrote: > > >> Okay so for some reason when I put my mystery snails in my 125 gallon >> tank downstairs they slowly die. I can't tell why they are dieing. My >> water tests only show nitrates showing a number, and the number was >> close to 30ppm (due for this weeks PWC and filter cleaning), which >> high-ish nitrates kill a snail? I have crushed coral and all that in >> the filter just like in my 55 gallon tank, and the water parameters >> are similar to the 55 gallon that I grow the snails in. The only >> thing I can think of is that they are not finding enough food in that >> huge tank and they are slowly starving to death. I try to feed more >> but that doesn't seem to be helping. >> All I know is that I keep finding the snails floating and very stinky >> and very dead. I lost one last week and found another one today. I >> still have about 7 active and healthy adults in the tank, so I'm not >> sure what's going on. >> Any theories? >> >> Amber [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 44862	From: amphibian_ca	Date: 12/3/2009
Subject: Re: Planted Aquarium

As someone who has maintained planted aquaria for more than 15 years, I have a couple of suggestions from my experience. First, the filter. In a planted tank the plants do the major filtration ("cleaning" the water) and the filter is there to "clear" the water by removing suspended particulate matter while providing minimal water movement. The type of fish should determine the current caused by the filter; some fish come from flowing streams and therefore require currents, but the majority of fish kept in planted aquaria are what I term "forest fish" like most of the tetras, corydoras, rasbora, gourami, dwarf cichlids, etc., and these occur in quiet slow-flowing streams and flooded forest biotopes. Minimal water flow is best. The best filter for a planted tank above 50g is a canister; you can alter the rate of flow several ways, providing a length-wise current of varying degrees. I would not recommend a hang-on-back filter since there is no way to control the direction or flow rate and creating unnecessary currents is detrimental to both fish and plants. Plants have also been shown to grow better with minimal water movement. Won't get into all that unless you ask, but it involves not only carbon dioxide (CO2) but also oxygen and plant uptake of nutrients. Surface disturbance should also be kept to a minimum to avoid driving off the needed CO2 and bringing more oxygen into the water than what is good for the plants. Re the light, I gather the fixture is an All Glass model and I have two of these and find them very well made. The tubes that come with them are in my view useless, but you can easily replace them with good tubes. A full spectrum (around 6500K) and a cool white combination have been shown to provide the best plant growth. I have this arrangement over my 70g, 90g and 115g, total 80 watts over each, and the plant growth is astounding. Fine-grain gravel provides what many believe to be the best substrate. No additives are needed. Plants obtain nutrients from the water through their roots, and substrate rooted plants like Echinodorus (swords) and crypts will benefit from substrate fertilization in the form of tabs or sticks; but even liquid fertilization will suffice. In this low-tech (or I prefer "natural") setup you will have no trouble growing the majority of plants. Swords, crypts, aponegeton, anubias, vallisneria, sagitarria, java fern, Pennywort, Wisteria, floating plants...the list is almost endless. Some of the stem plants requir higher light and perhaps CO2 to balance, but they also require more maintainance in pruning. Byron. --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "amejia1976" <AMejia1976@...> wrote: > > Hello everyone; > > Need some help. I am new to the aquarium hobby and have a few questions. This is for a Tropical Freshwater 70 gallon setup: > > I intend to replace a second hand wet/dry filter system with a Marineland 400 - Everyone at the store tells me its a good one but we all know store ppl sometimes bend the truth a bit. Any first hand experiences will be welcome. > > Second, I would like to have plants. What are some simple easy to care for plants I can use. Will the gravel I have work or is there other types of substrate recommended. > > Last but not least; lighting. I have a 2 bulb ballast - what is lighting recommation? > > Thanks all for your help. > > Alex >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 44863	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 12/3/2009
Subject: Re: Planted Aquarium

OK. Just to back you up a little. Since all your fish have died, your tank is no longer cycling... unless you are dosing daily with plain ammonia to keep the nitrogen cycle going. Your pet store does not know what they are talking about. Actually, a DIY wet/dry trickle filter, if this is what you have, will do more for nitrate reduction than any other type of standard store bought filter system. Give us your actual numbers for your test results. Saying they are OK or good is not sufficient since we do not know if you know what is OK or good... and I would not rely on your pet stores evaluation. Obviously the 160ppm level of nitrates is high and this could be due to a dead fish being stuck in your filter system some where and the decaying fish is putting out lots of ammonia>nitrite>nitrate. In all likelihood, you do not need to spend more money on a new filter... you just need a little more knowledge about what you currently have so you can get it and keep it running properly. See my "Filter Cleaning And Maintenance" article as you are improperly cleaning your filters right now which is what is causing you problems. Also, go to my article, "A to Z of Fish Keeping..." and take one or both of the free online tutorials which will walk you through all of the basics with information from real life-long fish keepers... not pet store employees who may not know anything about keeping fish long term. All they try to do is keep them alive long enough to sell them. I doubt that your pre-filter sucked the fish into it. More than likely, the fish were weakened or sick and this is what led to them being sucked into the filter system. A healthy fish can easily swim away from a filter's intake... unless it's WAY too much for a tank and most filter systems are not. Can you find any information on your current pump so we will know how much power it has as far as moving water? Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of amejia1976 Sent: Thursday, December 03, 2009 12:39 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Planted Aquarium Amber; Had a 10g tank with a 5-15 power filter in it with 3 neon, 1 otto, 3 emerald cory all very happy for over 2 years. Someone gave me a 75g tank with a wet/dry filter. Got it going, new pre-filter sponge, new bio-balls, new post filter sponge - waited 3 weeks for cloudiness to go away and figured all was dandy. Put fish in but found out too late fish could not swim as strong and all got sucked into pre-filter box all the way to sump - rip fishies. So now I decide to get some stronger looking fish; gold mollies and pleco - mollies got ick - treated but left pleco in - pleco was fine for 2 weeks and then went the way of the other fishies :( So I am now getting some learning done. Since pleco died have tested water every week. pH, nitrite and ammonia within good levels; nitrate @ 160 which is way high. For 2 months so far there was no canopy and have had to add at least 2 g of water per week to replace what evaporates and so i have not done any h2o changes since and since there is no fish pooping i have not cleaned gravel. So I go to pet/fishy store and they tell me wet/dry don't do much with nitrate so they suggest power filter...and here i am. As for filter media I clean with tap water once a week My municipal water tests perfect out of tap Sorry for long story - just very frustrated - I see all the prutty setup online and just wonder.... Alex --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, Amber Berglund <arberglund@...> wrote: > > The ballast is usually only rated for the wattage of the bulbs it > currently has, so you will need to upgrade the whole fixture (ballast > and all). Unless you're a good electrician and you can swap out the > "guts" and replace it with a new light fixture inside the shell of the > old light fixture. But you might be able to use a VHO fluorescent bulb > of the same wattage, but I don't know how much more light that > actually produces compared to a regular fluorescent, does anyone out there know? > > Also, nitrates are usually high because you have one or several > "issues". Either you have a high bioload (lots of > fish/snails/shrimp/etc) and need to do more water changes and filter > cleanings, or you need to just do more frequent water changing and > filter maintenance. Getting live plants will help keep the nitrates > lower, so you were on the right track there, you just need to get a > little more info for the lighting and such :) > > What is your water change and filter cleaning schedule and what do you > do when you change the water and clean the filter? Also how often do > you clean your gravel with the gravel vac? > > Amber > > amejia1976 wrote: > > > > Yea, I already learned about the cycling of the tank - the hard way > > as u said :( lost some guppies, Mollies and emeral Cory's when i > > moved them from a healthy 10 gallong tank - so I am now learning all > > I can before I shell out more $$$$. This is one of the reason I am > > moving to a power filter rather than wet/dry as my Nitrates are way high. > > > > To change the bulbs; will I need a new ballast/holder? Or will I be > > able to find higher output bulbs in same length? > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>, Amber Berglund <arberglund@> > > wrote: > > > > > > Those look like standard fluorescent bulbs, which means you don't > > > have enough light output for plants with that light fixture. You > > > would want at least 1 watt per gallon minimum for low light easy > > > plants, > > preferably > > > closer to 2 watts per gallon. So you will have to look at > > > upgrading > > your > > > lighting to have live plants. > > > Also before you buy fish you need to know about the nitrifying > > > bacteria and cycling a tank properly (insert your link here Lenny, > > > LOL). So before you run right out and buy fish make sure you know > > > how to cycle your tank properly so you don't end up spending twice > > > as much on fish because you have to replace all of them when they > > > die (trust me you don't want to do it the hard way, it costs too > > > much, LOL. I did and spent a lot of time and suffering and money > > > figuring out what I was doing wrong for a month). > > > > > > Amber > > > > > > amejia1976 wrote: > > > > > > > > The bulbs say the following: > > > > > > > > All Glass Aquarium - Aquarium Lamp - Rapid Start 25w It is 35 > > > > inches long and 3 inches around or 1 inch across. > > > > > > > > As for the plants I'd like to have something that is green most > > > > if > > not > > > > all of the time; not bright green but green enough. > > > > > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>, Amber Berglund > > > > <arberglund@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > Do you happen to know what your bulbs are? both the watts and > > > > > type > > > > of bulbs. > > > > > I have never used the marineland 400 so I can't give any > > > > > advice > > on that. > > > > > Your current "normal" gravel will work fine for easy to care > > for, low > > > > > light requirement, plants, so as long as you don't want > > > > > anything > > bright > > > > > red and you're happy with all green and easy to care for > > > > > plants > > then > > > > you > > > > > should be fine. Also if you have regular fluorescent lighting > > you may > > > > > have to upgrade to a higher lighting depending on the wattage > > > > > of the bulbs, so we will need to know what type and wattage. > > > > > compact fluorescent bulbs have a much higher light output but > > > > > they don't > > come > > > > > standard on tank kits (such as the 55 gallon tank kit you can > > > > > get at walmart, it comes with standard fluorescent bulbs), but > > > > > if the light fixture was purchase separately it could be one > > > > > of several different types of bulbs. Hopefully there's some > > > > > sort of marking on the > > bulbs to > > > > > help you tell what kind they are. > > > > > > > > > > Amber > > > > > > > > > > amejia1976 wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > Hello everyone; > > > > > > > > > > > > Need some help. I am new to the aquarium hobby and have a > > > > > > few questions. This is for a Tropical Freshwater 70 gallon setup: > > > > > > > > > > > > I intend to replace a second hand wet/dry filter system with > > > > > > a Marineland 400 - Everyone at the store tells me its a good > > > > > > one > > but we > > > > > > all know store ppl sometimes bend the truth a bit. Any first > > > > > > hand experiences will be welcome. > > > > > > > > > > > > Second, I would like to have plants. What are some simple > > > > > > easy to > > > > care > > > > > > for plants I can use. Will the gravel I have work or is > > > > > > there > > other > > > > > > types of substrate recommended. > > > > > > > > > > > > Last but not least; lighting. I have a 2 bulb ballast - what > > > > > > is lighting recommation? > > > > > > > > > > > > Thanks all for your help. > > > > > > > > > > > > Alex

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 44864	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 12/3/2009
Subject: Re: where is lenny?? (was: Issues with snails)

UH OHHHH!!! Not really UH OHHHH!!! LOL I'd like to find some folks with some pics/vids of me from the old days. I lost all my old family photos in the 1995 floods when my mom had that box of pictures on the floor of one of her closets and then I lost many of the rest that were in a storage unit, from Katrina flood waters, so I don't have any of my old print photos since I never did scan them onto a computer. Email me off list and I'll give you some of my costumes so you'll know what to look for... although I'm wondering if I didn't tone down things in 1989 when I got married to my ex-wife. ;-) I can't remember if I toned down before we got married or after, which would only have affected Mardi Gras 1990-1995. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Rev. Eric Roberts Sent: Thursday, December 03, 2009 9:04 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] where is lenny?? (was: Issues with snails) I'll have to go look hehehehe I went to mardi Gras in NO in 1988 & 1989 while I was stationed at Ft. Polk. Eric From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny Sent: Thursday, December 03, 2009 8:24 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] where is lenny?? (was: Issues with snails) Do you mean like my City, State, Address? Google me... there's probably more than you'd ever really want to know but hopefully no pics worthy of the cover of National Enquirer... at least none that I've found. Last time I checked, a Google of my name in quotes comes up with about 9,000 hits so there's plenty to read out there. Luckily, they didn't have all these cell phone cameras around when I was a waskily-wabbit type of younger man. ;-) Although, if people saved all their pictures and video from Mardi Gras (and other costume events... and some events that required nothing at all like http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QTSAqvLHfgE) from the 80's & 90's, they may well have some National Enquirer type photos of me. LOL If you just wanted to know if I was still in the group... yep, I'm still here. ;-) Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of caroline cormier Sent: Thursday, December 03, 2009 3:28 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Issues with snails could someone tell me where lenny is.. caroline ________________________________ From: Amber Berglund <arberglund@...> To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Wed, December 2, 2009 7:08:39 PM Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Issues with snails i don't use a water softener, I already have very soft water and have to add crushed coral to buffer my tanks properly or I will end up with a pH crash. According to the research I did, my water should be hard enough for the snails with the added crushed coral. I think I'm going to have to test all my water parameters again to double check them, do my PWC and stuff and see how it goes after that. The snails have only been in the tank for about a week, so it's possible that they were ill before I put them there, but I doubt it. Amber Lainey Alexander wrote: > Amber - > > I had the same thing happening, all my snails and shrimp would die in > my water. To make a very long story short: it turned out to be my > potassium water softener. Apparently when you put inverts into water > with lots of potassium (from a softener) they dehydrate or something > similar to that. I saw many similar cases online. Now I use non- > softened water and snails and shrimp are just fine. > > Could it be something like that? > > Lainey > http://www.grasslan dsgouldians. com > > On Dec 2, 2009, at 5:55 PM, Amber Berglund wrote: > > >> Okay so for some reason when I put my mystery snails in my 125 gallon >> tank downstairs they slowly die. I can't tell why they are dieing. My >> water tests only show nitrates showing a number, and the number was >> close to 30ppm (due for this weeks PWC and filter cleaning), which >> high-ish nitrates kill a snail? I have crushed coral and all that in >> the filter just like in my 55 gallon tank, and the water parameters >> are similar to the 55 gallon that I grow the snails in. The only >> thing I can think of is that they are not finding enough food in that >> huge tank and they are slowly starving to death. I try to feed more >> but that doesn't seem to be helping. >> All I know is that I keep finding the snails floating and very stinky >> and very dead. I lost one last week and found another one today. I >> still have about 7 active and healthy adults in the tank, so I'm not >> sure what's going on. >> Any theories? >> >> Amber

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 44865	From: Lainey Alexander	Date: 12/3/2009
Subject: pea gravel versus fancy stuff

I am very interested to hear many of you recommending pea gravel for plants. I have chosen this substrate, but not because I know what I'm doing, just because I tried many of the others and had disastrous results. I'm talking about the muddy, dirty substrates that are supposed to be superior for growing plants: Eco-complete, ADA aquasoil, Seachem flourite, etc. At Planted Tank forum they seem to recommend these more dirt type enhanced substrates, and while I did see tremendous happiness from the plants in these soils, there were SO many problems. Clouding, tannins leaching, catastrophic ammonia spikes, pH swings - I couldn't hack it so broke down those tanks and added pea gravel before losing all my fish. Can you please explain to me why none of you are recommending these supposedly superior soil-type or clay-type substrates - other than the expense? Thanks, Lainey http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 44866	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 12/3/2009
Subject: Re: pea gravel versus fancy stuff

They are not usually needed for easy to grow plants (low light requirements and low nutrient requirements), I think that's the reason most people don't suggest them, they just aren't worth buying unless you want expensive colorful and hard to take care of plants. I myself have organic soil under my pea gravel for my plants, and they love it, it probably works just as well as all those fancy substrates. Amber Lainey Alexander wrote: > > I am very interested to hear many of you recommending pea gravel for > plants. I have chosen this substrate, but not because I know what I'm > doing, just because I tried many of the others and had disastrous > results. I'm talking about the muddy, dirty substrates that are > supposed to be superior for growing plants: Eco-complete, ADA > aquasoil, Seachem flourite, etc. At Planted Tank forum they seem to > recommend these more dirt type enhanced substrates, and while I did > see tremendous happiness from the plants in these soils, there were > SO many problems. Clouding, tannins leaching, catastrophic ammonia > spikes, pH swings - I couldn't hack it so broke down those tanks and > added pea gravel before losing all my fish. > > Can you please explain to me why none of you are recommending these > supposedly superior soil-type or clay-type substrates - other than > the expense? > > Thanks, > > Lainey > http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com <http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com> > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 44867	From: kuradi8	Date: 12/3/2009
Subject: Re: pea gravel versus fancy stuff

Pea gravel is rock, not dirt. Dirt is... well... dirty! The only thing you have to be careful with when using plain old gravel of any kind is that it's non-reactive. That it won't change your pH or leach harmful chemicals that it might have come in contact with. I live on a tar-and-chip road and collected loose chip for the substrate in my 55g. Needless to say, I picked through it carefully and washed it very, very well before adding it to my tank. I like the look and I especially liked the price. :oP As for plants, mine are potted. I use plastic party cups (the hard clear mock-cut-crystal kind) with sandbox/beach sand as the primary substrate and a few layers of gravel on top to keep everything inside. I have Amazon Swords, Banana Plants and something else that I don't know what it is but it looks like a fern. ~Kai --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, Lainey Alexander <lainealex@...> wrote: > > I am very interested to hear many of you recommending pea gravel for > plants. I have chosen this substrate, but not because I know what I'm > doing, just because I tried many of the others and had disastrous > results. I'm talking about the muddy, dirty substrates that are > supposed to be superior for growing plants: Eco-complete, ADA > aquasoil, Seachem flourite, etc. At Planted Tank forum they seem to > recommend these more dirt type enhanced substrates, and while I did > see tremendous happiness from the plants in these soils, there were > SO many problems. Clouding, tannins leaching, catastrophic ammonia > spikes, pH swings - I couldn't hack it so broke down those tanks and > added pea gravel before losing all my fish. > > Can you please explain to me why none of you are recommending these > supposedly superior soil-type or clay-type substrates - other than > the expense? > > Thanks, > > > Lainey > http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 44868	From: Lainey Alexander	Date: 12/3/2009
Subject: Re: pea gravel versus fancy stuff

...hmmm, so how much will the pea gravel limit my ability to grow colorful hard-to-grow plants? completely? with root tabs and ferts in the water column, is it not possible to grow anything other than low- light or lower-tech type plants in gravel? Lainey http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com On Dec 3, 2009, at 11:36 AM, Amber Berglund wrote: > They are not usually needed for easy to grow plants (low light > requirements and low nutrient requirements), I think that's the reason > most people don't suggest them, they just aren't worth buying > unless you > want expensive colorful and hard to take care of plants. I myself have > organic soil under my pea gravel for my plants, and they love it, it > probably works just as well as all those fancy substrates. > > Amber > > Lainey Alexander wrote: >> >> I am very interested to hear many of you recommending pea gravel for >> plants. I have chosen this substrate, but not because I know what I'm >> doing, just because I tried many of the others and had disastrous >> results. I'm talking about the muddy, dirty substrates that are >> supposed to be superior for growing plants: Eco-complete, ADA >> aquasoil, Seachem flourite, etc. At Planted Tank forum they seem to >> recommend these more dirt type enhanced substrates, and while I did >> see tremendous happiness from the plants in these soils, there were >> SO many problems. Clouding, tannins leaching, catastrophic ammonia >> spikes, pH swings - I couldn't hack it so broke down those tanks and >> added pea gravel before losing all my fish. >> >> Can you please explain to me why none of you are recommending these >> supposedly superior soil-type or clay-type substrates - other than >> the expense? >> >> Thanks, >> >> Lainey >> http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com <http:// >> www.grasslandsgouldians.com> >> >> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] >> >> > > > ------------------------------------ > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, > Thank You. > ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..>< > ((((º> > PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT > important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original > message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old > subject)" <- > <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><· > ´¯`·.¸¸. > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. > > If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of > unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by clicking on > "Edit My Membership" on the home page. > > Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com to receive the digest, > which includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email > > Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com for the No E-Mail > option where you will still be able to read messages on the group > and post replies. > > Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com to receive individual e- > mails.Yahoo! Groups Links > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 44869	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 12/3/2009
Subject: Re: pea gravel versus fancy stuff

If it ain't broke, don't fix it. Pea gravel has worked for years and years and years with good results. I guess, if I was going to try and go with some kind of advanced, high-maintenance planted tank with expensive lighting, advanced CO2 injection, dosing with fertilizers, really high maintenance and expensive plants, etc., then maybe a specialized substrate might be in order... but then all of that gets to be too much work for me. I try to keep things cheap and as simple as possible so that more people can venture into a planted tank. Once they've ventured into a planted tank and after success, they may want to get more advanced and then want to go with all the advanced products out there but I don't think all that stuff is needed. There are plenty of ways to have simplified well planted natural tank without all the bells, gimmicks and gadgets out there. Besides all the above, some people in this group were around before there were aquarium lights, CO2 injection and specialized substrates. LOL Not me, of course, but I still like to keep it as simple as possible... properly stocked (not overstocked), planted, feeding regularly, doing weekly PWC's, gravel vacuuming and filter maintenance. That's enough work for me. Of course, I'm not much of a gardener and I look at the plants more as utilitarian but also as decorative. If I was a gardener and wanted to try one of them fancy aquascaped tanks, then maybe I'd be willing to do more work to keep it up. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Lainey Alexander Sent: Thursday, December 03, 2009 10:25 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] pea gravel versus fancy stuff I am very interested to hear many of you recommending pea gravel for plants. I have chosen this substrate, but not because I know what I'm doing, just because I tried many of the others and had disastrous results. I'm talking about the muddy, dirty substrates that are supposed to be superior for growing plants: Eco-complete, ADA aquasoil, Seachem flourite, etc. At Planted Tank forum they seem to recommend these more dirt type enhanced substrates, and while I did see tremendous happiness from the plants in these soils, there were SO many problems. Clouding, tannins leaching, catastrophic ammonia spikes, pH swings - I couldn't hack it so broke down those tanks and added pea gravel before losing all my fish. Can you please explain to me why none of you are recommending these supposedly superior soil-type or clay-type substrates - other than the expense? Thanks, Lainey http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 44870	From: Lainey Alexander	Date: 12/3/2009
Subject: Re: pea gravel versus fancy stuff

So if I use pea gravel will I be able to grow any red plants like ludwigia or rotala or the cabombas, those types of relatively common but a bit more challenging plants, or will I be limited to javas, crypts and things like that? I do have good lighting and CO2 injection and ferts. Thanks, Lainey http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com On Dec 3, 2009, at 12:08 PM, Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > If it ain't broke, don't fix it. > > Pea gravel has worked for years and years and years with good results. > > I guess, if I was going to try and go with some kind of advanced, > high-maintenance planted tank with expensive lighting, advanced CO2 > injection, dosing with fertilizers, really high maintenance and > expensive > plants, etc., then maybe a specialized substrate might be in > order... but > then all of that gets to be too much work for me. I try to keep things > cheap and as simple as possible so that more people can venture into a > planted tank. > > Once they've ventured into a planted tank and after success, they > may want > to get more advanced and then want to go with all the advanced > products out > there but I don't think all that stuff is needed. There are plenty > of ways > to have simplified well planted natural tank without all the bells, > gimmicks > and gadgets out there. > > Besides all the above, some people in this group were around before > there > were aquarium lights, CO2 injection and specialized substrates. LOL > Not > me, of course, but I still like to keep it as simple as possible... > properly stocked (not overstocked), planted, feeding regularly, > doing weekly > PWC's, gravel vacuuming and filter maintenance. That's enough work > for me. > > Of course, I'm not much of a gardener and I look at the plants more as > utilitarian but also as decorative. If I was a gardener and wanted > to try > one of them fancy aquascaped tanks, then maybe I'd be willing to do > more > work to keep it up. > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the > right > side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, > Month) > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On > Behalf Of Lainey Alexander > Sent: Thursday, December 03, 2009 10:25 AM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Subject: [AquaticLife] pea gravel versus fancy stuff > > I am very interested to hear many of you recommending pea gravel > for plants. > I have chosen this substrate, but not because I know what I'm > doing, just > because I tried many of the others and had disastrous results. I'm > talking > about the muddy, dirty substrates that are supposed to be superior for > growing plants: Eco-complete, ADA aquasoil, Seachem flourite, etc. At > Planted Tank forum they seem to recommend these more dirt type > enhanced > substrates, and while I did see tremendous happiness from the > plants in > these soils, there were SO many problems. Clouding, tannins leaching, > catastrophic ammonia spikes, pH swings - I couldn't hack it so > broke down > those tanks and added pea gravel before losing all my fish. > > Can you please explain to me why none of you are recommending these > supposedly superior soil-type or clay-type substrates - other than the > expense? > > Thanks, > > Lainey > http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 44871	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 12/3/2009
Subject: Re: pea gravel versus fancy stuff

There aren't a lot of colorful aquatic plants. Most are various shades of green but I guess to Kermit, that is a colorful color. ;-) What particular plant(s) are you interested in? Here's a short list of Difficult and Very Difficult plants from the PlantGeek.net database and as you will see, only a few of them have some color to them... usually in the red to purple color range. The rest are Kermit's favorite color. ;-) http://www.plantgeek.net/plantguide_list.php?category=2&filter_by=5 http://www.plantgeek.net/plantguide_list.php?category=2&filter_by=6 As you will see on the right side of the pages, with a quick scroll, these plants also need high to very high lighting requirements. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Lainey Alexander Sent: Thursday, December 03, 2009 11:02 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] pea gravel versus fancy stuff ...hmmm, so how much will the pea gravel limit my ability to grow colorful hard-to-grow plants? completely? with root tabs and ferts in the water column, is it not possible to grow anything other than low- light or lower-tech type plants in gravel? Lainey http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com On Dec 3, 2009, at 11:36 AM, Amber Berglund wrote: > They are not usually needed for easy to grow plants (low light > requirements and low nutrient requirements), I think that's the reason > most people don't suggest them, they just aren't worth buying unless > you want expensive colorful and hard to take care of plants. I myself > have organic soil under my pea gravel for my plants, and they love it, > it probably works just as well as all those fancy substrates. > > Amber > > Lainey Alexander wrote: >> >> I am very interested to hear many of you recommending pea gravel for >> plants. I have chosen this substrate, but not because I know what I'm >> doing, just because I tried many of the others and had disastrous >> results. I'm talking about the muddy, dirty substrates that are >> supposed to be superior for growing plants: Eco-complete, ADA >> aquasoil, Seachem flourite, etc. At Planted Tank forum they seem to >> recommend these more dirt type enhanced substrates, and while I did >> see tremendous happiness from the plants in these soils, there were >> SO many problems. Clouding, tannins leaching, catastrophic ammonia >> spikes, pH swings - I couldn't hack it so broke down those tanks and >> added pea gravel before losing all my fish. >> >> Can you please explain to me why none of you are recommending these >> supposedly superior soil-type or clay-type substrates - other than >> the expense? >> >> Thanks, >> >> Lainey >> http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com <http:// >> www.grasslandsgouldians.com>

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 44872	From: Lainey Alexander	Date: 12/3/2009
Subject: Re: pea gravel versus fancy stuff

Thank you, Lenny - this information is extremely helpful and explains my lackluster success with a few specimens. The fact that I am keeping them alive at all makes me feel more confident. Lainey http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com On Dec 3, 2009, at 1:02 PM, Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > There aren't a lot of colorful aquatic plants. Most are various > shades of > green but I guess to Kermit, that is a colorful color. ;-) > > What particular plant(s) are you interested in? > > Here's a short list of Difficult and Very Difficult plants from the > PlantGeek.net database and as you will see, only a few of them have > some > color to them... usually in the red to purple color range. The rest > are > Kermit's favorite color. ;-) > > http://www.plantgeek.net/plantguide_list.php?category=2&filter_by=5 > > http://www.plantgeek.net/plantguide_list.php?category=2&filter_by=6 > > As you will see on the right side of the pages, with a quick > scroll, these > plants also need high to very high lighting requirements. > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the > right > side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, > Month) > > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On > Behalf Of Lainey Alexander > Sent: Thursday, December 03, 2009 11:02 AM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] pea gravel versus fancy stuff > > ...hmmm, so how much will the pea gravel limit my ability to grow > colorful > hard-to-grow plants? completely? with root tabs and ferts in the water > column, is it not possible to grow anything other than low- light or > lower-tech type plants in gravel? > > Lainey > http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com > > On Dec 3, 2009, at 11:36 AM, Amber Berglund wrote: > > > They are not usually needed for easy to grow plants (low light > > requirements and low nutrient requirements), I think that's the > reason > > most people don't suggest them, they just aren't worth buying unless > > you want expensive colorful and hard to take care of plants. I > myself > > have organic soil under my pea gravel for my plants, and they > love it, > > it probably works just as well as all those fancy substrates. > > > > Amber > > > > Lainey Alexander wrote: > >> > >> I am very interested to hear many of you recommending pea gravel > for > >> plants. I have chosen this substrate, but not because I know > what I'm > >> doing, just because I tried many of the others and had disastrous > >> results. I'm talking about the muddy, dirty substrates that are > >> supposed to be superior for growing plants: Eco-complete, ADA > >> aquasoil, Seachem flourite, etc. At Planted Tank forum they seem to > >> recommend these more dirt type enhanced substrates, and while I did > >> see tremendous happiness from the plants in these soils, there were > >> SO many problems. Clouding, tannins leaching, catastrophic ammonia > >> spikes, pH swings - I couldn't hack it so broke down those tanks > and > >> added pea gravel before losing all my fish. > >> > >> Can you please explain to me why none of you are recommending these > >> supposedly superior soil-type or clay-type substrates - other than > >> the expense? > >> > >> Thanks, > >> > >> Lainey > >> http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com <http:// > >> www.grasslandsgouldians.com> > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 44873	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 12/3/2009
Subject: Re: pea gravel versus fancy stuff

Now, another thing you will have to start doing is providing full information. The Ludwigia Genus comes in many species and not all have the same requirements. After I typed ludwigia in my Google search field, Google suggested at least 10 searches of species starting with ludwigia. A Google Image search yields a similar assortment of species and their pictures. A search on Rotala yields similar search results with many species under the Rotala Genus. The Cabomba Genus also has several species. You can use these two database sites (or others) to find more info on specific species. http://www.plantgeek.net/plantguide_asearch.php http://www.aquaticplantcentral.com/forumapc/plantfinder/ Neither is a complete list of all species of plants but they will usually have the more commonly available species with profiles on the plants. The APC site is a newer site than PlantGeek but it's database is growing and their plant profiles are more comprehensive than PlantGeek's. A quick search of APC's page, under the "Family" list and then choosing Cabombaceae, yields only three profiles for Cabomba Genus plants. Two are listed as Moderate and one is listed as Difficult. A quick search of PG's page, using "Common name includes: Cabomba" and only three species came up but when using "Genus includes: Cabomba", four species showed up. Cabomba Carolina did not show up in the Common name search for some reason... probably an error or typo in compiling the database. The three most common species, common to both sites, seem to be Cabomba carolina, C. furcata and C. palaeformis. I didn't try to break down your other two Genus' since they had far more hits on a Google search with them two. Read the profiles from both sites and combine the information to get the best idea of caring for these more difficult plants. For example, here's the "Care" section for C. furcata on PlantGeek.net... "The most difficult of the Cabomba species to keep. Nutrient rich substrate, high light, soft acidic water needed. Propagation by cuttings/lateral shoots." AND APC has a longer profile on this same plant at http://www.aquaticplantcentral.com/forumapc/plantfinder/details.php?id=107&c ategory=family&spec=Cabombaceae with the 2nd paragraph being mostly about "Care" and reads, "... Light is the primary hunger of this fine-leafed reddish stem plant, just as it is for most of the species in the Cabomba genus. Values of 3 or more watts per gallon are often required to maintain stable culture, since the shoots of this species easily weaken and break down if there is not enough light available. Surprisingly, a rich or regularly fertilized substrate enhances growth considerably. The fertilization of the water column with micronutrients is important, as is nitrate and phosphate supplementation. C. furcata will respond to nutrient deficiency with darkened leaves, substantially slowed growth, and elongated internodes. The color of this species can be amplified to a golden or pinkish color by the careful limitation of nitrate. Injected CO2 will most definitely aid both the appearance and the rate of growth of this species. Emersed culture is not possible, and the development of floating leaves and eventually flowers within the confines of an aquarium is a rarity. This species can temporarily be grown in outdoor ponds for the summer, where the development of flowers is a little more common...." The problem above lies in the fact that they use "3 or more watts per gallon" and this is probably based on old lighting formulas which were commonly based on standard fluorescent lighting. Nowadays, with CFL's and other more advance light bulbs, the watts per gallon guideline/rule simply is no longer applicable. You need to know about lumens and Kelvin rating, when dealing with light bulbs nowadays and not so much about watts. For example, most CFL's will usually provide 2-3 times more light (lumens) than an identical watt standard fluorescent tube. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Lainey Alexander Sent: Thursday, December 03, 2009 11:45 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] pea gravel versus fancy stuff So if I use pea gravel will I be able to grow any red plants like ludwigia or rotala or the cabombas, those types of relatively common but a bit more challenging plants, or will I be limited to javas, crypts and things like that? I do have good lighting and CO2 injection and ferts. Thanks, Lainey http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com On Dec 3, 2009, at 12:08 PM, Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > If it ain't broke, don't fix it. > > Pea gravel has worked for years and years and years with good results. > > I guess, if I was going to try and go with some kind of advanced, > high-maintenance planted tank with expensive lighting, advanced CO2 > injection, dosing with fertilizers, really high maintenance and > expensive > plants, etc., then maybe a specialized substrate might be in > order... but > then all of that gets to be too much work for me. I try to keep things > cheap and as simple as possible so that more people can venture into a > planted tank. > > Once they've ventured into a planted tank and after success, they > may want > to get more advanced and then want to go with all the advanced > products out > there but I don't think all that stuff is needed. There are plenty > of ways > to have simplified well planted natural tank without all the bells, > gimmicks > and gadgets out there. > > Besides all the above, some people in this group were around before > there > were aquarium lights, CO2 injection and specialized substrates. LOL > Not > me, of course, but I still like to keep it as simple as possible... > properly stocked (not overstocked), planted, feeding regularly, > doing weekly > PWC's, gravel vacuuming and filter maintenance. That's enough work > for me. > > Of course, I'm not much of a gardener and I look at the plants more as > utilitarian but also as decorative. If I was a gardener and wanted > to try > one of them fancy aquascaped tanks, then maybe I'd be willing to do > more > work to keep it up. > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the > right > side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, > Month) > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On > Behalf Of Lainey Alexander > Sent: Thursday, December 03, 2009 10:25 AM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Subject: [AquaticLife] pea gravel versus fancy stuff > > I am very interested to hear many of you recommending pea gravel > for plants. > I have chosen this substrate, but not because I know what I'm > doing, just > because I tried many of the others and had disastrous results. I'm > talking > about the muddy, dirty substrates that are supposed to be superior for > growing plants: Eco-complete, ADA aquasoil, Seachem flourite, etc. At > Planted Tank forum they seem to recommend these more dirt type > enhanced > substrates, and while I did see tremendous happiness from the > plants in > these soils, there were SO many problems. Clouding, tannins leaching, > catastrophic ammonia spikes, pH swings - I couldn't hack it so > broke down > those tanks and added pea gravel before losing all my fish. > > Can you please explain to me why none of you are recommending these > supposedly superior soil-type or clay-type substrates - other than the > expense? > > Thanks, > > Lainey > http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 44875	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 12/3/2009
Subject: Re: pea gravel versus fancy stuff

As Lenny pointed out all plants are not identical in their requirements, even the same genus can have a species that is low requirements while the rest are high, etc. I tried my hand at some "medium" type plants that require more fertilizers and such, and needless to say they died, LOL. I must say though, my dwarf Sagg.'s really like my Walstad planted tanks, they're sprouting up all over with new "babies". The only non green plants I have (I don't remember the name off hand, will have to look it up later as I'm at lunch right now), is a bunch type plant with reddish green leaves, and it didn't stay planted in the substrate so I left it floating, it's covering most of my surface area now (floating). I think the plant I'm talking about is a; ALTERNATHERA REINCKII VAR. ROSEAFOLIA (a mouth full, LOL). Amber Lainey Alexander wrote: > Thank you, Lenny - this information is extremely helpful and explains > my lackluster success with a few specimens. The fact that I am > keeping them alive at all makes me feel more confident. > > Lainey > http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com > > On Dec 3, 2009, at 1:02 PM, Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > > >> There aren't a lot of colorful aquatic plants. Most are various >> shades of >> green but I guess to Kermit, that is a colorful color. ;-) >> >> What particular plant(s) are you interested in? >> >> Here's a short list of Difficult and Very Difficult plants from the >> PlantGeek.net database and as you will see, only a few of them have >> some >> color to them... usually in the red to purple color range. The rest >> are >> Kermit's favorite color. ;-) >> >> http://www.plantgeek.net/plantguide_list.php?category=2&filter_by=5 >> >> http://www.plantgeek.net/plantguide_list.php?category=2&filter_by=6 >> >> As you will see on the right side of the pages, with a quick >> scroll, these >> plants also need high to very high lighting requirements. >> >> Lenny Vasbinder >> Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com >> (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the >> right >> side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, >> Month) >> >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com >> [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On >> Behalf Of Lainey Alexander >> Sent: Thursday, December 03, 2009 11:02 AM >> To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com >> Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] pea gravel versus fancy stuff >> >> ...hmmm, so how much will the pea gravel limit my ability to grow >> colorful >> hard-to-grow plants? completely? with root tabs and ferts in the water >> column, is it not possible to grow anything other than low- light or >> lower-tech type plants in gravel? >> >> Lainey >> http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com >> >> On Dec 3, 2009, at 11:36 AM, Amber Berglund wrote: >> >> >>> They are not usually needed for easy to grow plants (low light >>> requirements and low nutrient requirements), I think that's the >>> >> reason >> >>> most people don't suggest them, they just aren't worth buying unless >>> you want expensive colorful and hard to take care of plants. I >>> >> myself >> >>> have organic soil under my pea gravel for my plants, and they >>> >> love it, >> >>> it probably works just as well as all those fancy substrates. >>> >>> Amber >>> >>> Lainey Alexander wrote: >>> >>>> I am very interested to hear many of you recommending pea gravel >>>> >> for >> >>>> plants. I have chosen this substrate, but not because I know >>>> >> what I'm >> >>>> doing, just because I tried many of the others and had disastrous >>>> results. I'm talking about the muddy, dirty substrates that are >>>> supposed to be superior for growing plants: Eco-complete, ADA >>>> aquasoil, Seachem flourite, etc. At Planted Tank forum they seem to >>>> recommend these more dirt type enhanced substrates, and while I did >>>> see tremendous happiness from the plants in these soils, there were >>>> SO many problems. Clouding, tannins leaching, catastrophic ammonia >>>> spikes, pH swings - I couldn't hack it so broke down those tanks >>>> >> and >> >>>> added pea gravel before losing all my fish. >>>> >>>> Can you please explain to me why none of you are recommending these >>>> supposedly superior soil-type or clay-type substrates - other than >>>> the expense? >>>> >>>> Thanks, >>>> >>>> Lainey >>>> http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com <http:// >>>> www.grasslandsgouldians.com> >>>> >> > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > ------------------------------------ > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. > ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> > PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- > <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. > > If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the home page. > > Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com to receive the digest, which includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email > > Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com for the No E-Mail option where you will still be able to read messages on the group and post replies. > > Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com to receive individual e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links > > > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 44876	From: greyclouds99	Date: 12/3/2009
Subject: Newbie, and Angelfish question

I'm kinda new to this hobby, and wondering what to do with my sick Angel. I guess it's a "she", because her belly looks big since a couple of weeks. So, 'she' is in a community 34 gallon tank, along with two younger Angels, a Tiger Pleco, some black widow tetras, and 3 small Clown Loaches. The Angelfish's eye look awful, started to get whitish a few days ago, and today I noticed a bloody spot inside it, and there is a small dark grey bulge coming out of the eye's edge. The white fuss is getting more intense. I have no idea what all of this is, so I started setting a spare 15g tank to isolate the Angelfish. Two questions: 1) what's this disease and what's the cure? 2) I need help in setting that 15gallon hospital tank, it has been dry for almost a year, I filled it a couple of hours ago from my tap water, put a heater in, and set an old internal power filter that hasn't been used for two years. I have put half of my Betta's filter media in that power filter and the other half is brand new. Everything is turned on now, and I don't know what 's next to be done, or when can I house the sick Angelfish in. Tristan

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 44877	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 12/3/2009
Subject: Re: Newbie, and Angelfish question

We have a member who is kind of an expert on health issues, especially those affecting Angelfish but until he jumps in, I'll offer some help and try to remember all that I've learned from him over the years. You need to remove this sick Angelfish to a hospital tank for treatment as most of what you describe is related to internal bacterial issues. I see that you started this already but instead of using fresh tap water, use water from it's current tank so that the fish does not have to acclimate to the changed water. That's one less stressor that it needs right now. Here's more info on setting up an H-tank. http://thegab.org/Illness-and-Treatment/hospital-or-quarantine-tank.html http://www.aquahobby.com/articles/e_quarantine.php http://www.fishlore.com/QuarantineTankSetup.htm A couple of DIY simple filter systems for Q-tanks, H-tank or Fry Tanks powered by an air pump and line (or stone). http://www.cichlid-forum.com/articles/diy_spongefilter.php http://www.aquarticles.com/articles/management/Davies_Sponge_Filter.html Further, a sick fish in the wild will feel even more stress around other fish as they will often be picked on, bullied or even eaten so having them alone will allow them to relax a little more and a fish's immune system is directly affected by the stress levels of the fish. Now, onto treatment. You will need to treat the fish with a broad spectrum antibiotic like Maracyn II which treats gram-negative bacterial infections which most fish infections are gram-negative. There are other medications that will also work so let us know where you live and what is available for more/better advice. You did good with setting up the heather and filter but if you didn't treat your tap water with dechlor, then the chlorinated water will have killed off any good bacteria that you transferred. BUT, see above where you should use water from it's current tank so that it does not have further stress from osmotic stress related to acclimating to new water. If you can remove most of that tanks tap water and transfer water from the existing tank to refill the H-tank, then you can transfer the sick fish immediately since the temperature and other parameters will be the same. Then start treatment. Also move a decoration and plant or two to the H-tank so the sick fish has something to hide behind, which they usually will do. This will also bring some of the good nitrifying bacteria over in case your filter media nitrifying bacteria has already died off. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of greyclouds99 Sent: Thursday, December 03, 2009 3:39 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Newbie, and Angelfish question I'm kinda new to this hobby, and wondering what to do with my sick Angel. I guess it's a "she", because her belly looks big since a couple of weeks. So, 'she' is in a community 34 gallon tank, along with two younger Angels, a Tiger Pleco, some black widow tetras, and 3 small Clown Loaches. The Angelfish's eye look awful, started to get whitish a few days ago, and today I noticed a bloody spot inside it, and there is a small dark grey bulge coming out of the eye's edge. The white fuss is getting more intense. I have no idea what all of this is, so I started setting a spare 15g tank to isolate the Angelfish. Two questions: 1) what's this disease and what's the cure? 2) I need help in setting that 15gallon hospital tank, it has been dry for almost a year, I filled it a couple of hours ago from my tap water, put a heater in, and set an old internal power filter that hasn't been used for two years. I have put half of my Betta's filter media in that power filter and the other half is brand new. Everything is turned on now, and I don't know what 's next to be done, or when can I house the sick Angelfish in. Tristan ------------------------------------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the home page. Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com to receive the digest, which includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com for the No E-Mail option where you will still be able to read messages on the group and post replies. 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Group: AquaticLife	Message: 44878	From: sevenspringss@wmconnect.com	Date: 12/3/2009
Subject: Re: Newbie, and Angelfish question

Tristan, While I'm familiar with many diseases, including those common to Cichlids and more specifically to Angelfish, this malady you are describing is not one isolated only to this species. You would do best following Lenny's advice here, while I will add to what he's already said, below. In readying your 15 gallon hospital tank for this fish, remove all but 5 gallon of the new water you've already filled it with. Then, remove 10 gallons from your 34 gallon tank to the 15 to fill that tank back up. This will equate to doing a 1/3 (33%) PWC (partial water change) on that smaller tank -- which is often recommended prior to medicating fish anyway. The replacement water you will now be adding to your 34 gallon tank will be equivilent to almost a 30% (29.4%) PWC, which will also be in the range of not being too drastic and will be considered beneficial. This may be similar (or slightly larger) than your present maintenance regimen anyway. We are assuming that even as the beginner you say you are, that you're aware of needing to treat your aquarium water with a conditioner to remove chloramines prior to (or at the time) using any fresh-drawn tap water for the fish. This principle should likewise be followed for the fresh water you used for the 15 gallon tank. While transferring some of your Betta's filter media to this (15 gallon) tank's filter, you are thinking in the right direction, but I would tend to think that this media may not be all too heavily populated with your needed nitrifying bacteria only as a lone Betta would not usually constitute a heavy bioload (unless housed in a smaller container). You may want to consider also adding a small portion of the 34 gallon tank's filter media to ensure an adequate cycling start for the hospital tank. You can transfer the Angelfish anytime after properly setting up this hosptial tank. While there are many disease (even of the eye in itself) that fish may contract, I can't pinpoint what this may be determined to be diagnosed as, except to say that it's of an internal bacterial nature. As this is quite different from that condition referred to as "Pop-Eye," since you're not describing this as bulging, a wider spectrum antibiotic would not be needed but instead the mainly gram-negative (although still somewhat broad-spectrum) Minocycline (Maracyn II -- by Mardel) that Lenny recommended would be a prudent suggestion to follow, especially as it's one of the few quite readily absorbed (internally) antibiotics -- and this most certainly appears to be a bacterial issue. At the stage you are already describing though, while we may be able to arrest this seemingly fast progressing disease, we may not be able to prevent or restore the damage which has already occurred, but hopefully it has not progressed to such a dangerous state and the fish's immune system may be able to repair any minor damage in healing. If you can't find Mardel's Maracyn II (note: it must be Maracyn 2, not plain Maracyn or Maracyn Plus), you may use KanaPlex (Kanamycin Sulfate) by SeaChem, Nalagram (Naladixic Acid) or Furan 2 (Nitrofurazone, etc.) both by Aquarium Pharmaceuticals -- in that order. Remove any carbon from your filters when medicating. As is often most helpful when advising any treatment, could you fill us in on how much and how often you do PWC's? Also, again for the advisor's (and eventually for your's) benefit, please supply us with all of your water parameters, in numbers -- to enable us to be ready to proceed in any certain direction, if it's deemed necessary. Ray [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 44879	From: amejia1976	Date: 12/4/2009
Subject: Re: Planted Aquarium

WOW - talk about information overload - Thanks Lenny and Amber - you guys are so patient. Tank is still cycling as I have added 10 ghost shrimps and a feeder guppy here and there, also put a pantyhose on the overflow box to avoid the suction of death and a Plexiglas canopy to cover and reduce evaporation. Info on my tank Rectangular 25in Height x 36in Wide x 18in Deep Trickle Wet/Dry Filter similar to this but rated @ 75g http://z.about.com/d/saltaquarium/1/0/r/Y/1/EshoppsWetDry.jpg Tank overflow box similar to this in tank - this is also where the fishies got sucked into and up the u-tube http://www.aquabuys.com/miva/graphics/00000001/pca-overflow-box.jpg Pump WOW - just did some digging and found out the pump is rated @ 700gph @ zero elevation to 50gph @ 12ft elevation. Currently my elevation is 4ft which gives a 475gph flow - this might be a bit much? Could this be why the suction onto the overflow box slits is so strong? http://www.harrisonsponds.com/pdf/magdrive_250_700.pdf Test Results 11/19/09 Low pH @ 7.6 High pH @ 8.0 Ammonia @ 0 Nitrite @ 0 Nitrate @ 160 11/26/09 - this are also the exact same numbers from my tap. Testing was done 4 days after adding 2g of tap water. Have not done testing since - scheduled for this Saturday Low pH @ 6.4 High pH @ 8.0 Ammonia @ 0 Nitrite @ 0 Nitrate @ 0 2 Light Ballast rated @ up to 63watts with 2 25watt bulbs Thanks again for all your assistance. Alex

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 44880	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 12/4/2009
Subject: Re: Planted Aquarium

Actually that 475 gph doesn't seem that high to me, but I keep hillstream loaches that need a stream like environment, LOL. It might be a little too much for your fish, depending on the fish. I use the netting that's made for window screens from the hardware store to cover my intakes, if you want less suction just wrap it around a few times to decrease the suction into the uptake tube. You don't need to use the high pH test kits if your pH is lower than 8, which is appears to be. Are you using test "strips" (little pieces of paper that you dip into the water)? If so you're going to want to look at upgrading to a master test kit (such as the one from API), as the test strips are not as accurate. I'm curious as to why your pH tests are so different between the weeks, that's actually not a good thing. Do you have a test kit to test your KH and GH? You may want to pick one up as it looks like you don't have enough in your water to buffer your pH so it doesn't swing up and down so drastically. It doesn't look like your tank is still cycling now, but you're going to want to do more water changes if your nitrates are getting so high in a weeks time. Oh I misread your tests, was the lower one your tap water test right out of the tap? If so you're going to need to do a baseline test, keep the same water in a bucket and test again in 24 hours, then 48 hours. That will tell you what your tap water really is, as right out of the tap it has more "stuff" in it to buffer the pH and such so the pipes don't corrode. Amber amejia1976 wrote: > > WOW - talk about information overload - Thanks Lenny and Amber - you > guys are so patient. > > Tank is still cycling as I have added 10 ghost shrimps and a feeder > guppy here and there, also put a pantyhose on the overflow box to > avoid the suction of death and a Plexiglas canopy to cover and reduce > evaporation. > > Info on my tank > Rectangular > 25in Height x 36in Wide x 18in Deep > Trickle Wet/Dry Filter similar to this but rated @ 75g > http://z.about.com/d/saltaquarium/1/0/r/Y/1/EshoppsWetDry.jpg > <http://z.about.com/d/saltaquarium/1/0/r/Y/1/EshoppsWetDry.jpg> > > Tank overflow box similar to this in tank - this is also where the > fishies got sucked into and up the u-tube > http://www.aquabuys.com/miva/graphics/00000001/pca-overflow-box.jpg > <http://www.aquabuys.com/miva/graphics/00000001/pca-overflow-box.jpg> > > Pump > WOW - just did some digging and found out the pump is rated @ 700gph @ > zero elevation to 50gph @ 12ft elevation. Currently my elevation is > 4ft which gives a 475gph flow - this might be a bit much? Could this > be why the suction onto the overflow box slits is so strong? > http://www.harrisonsponds.com/pdf/magdrive_250_700.pdf > <http://www.harrisonsponds.com/pdf/magdrive_250_700.pdf> > > Test Results > 11/19/09 > Low pH @ 7.6 > High pH @ 8.0 > Ammonia @ 0 > Nitrite @ 0 > Nitrate @ 160 > > 11/26/09 - this are also the exact same numbers from my tap. Testing > was done 4 days after adding 2g of tap water. Have not done testing > since - scheduled for this Saturday > Low pH @ 6.4 > High pH @ 8.0 > Ammonia @ 0 > Nitrite @ 0 > Nitrate @ 0 > > 2 Light Ballast rated @ up to 63watts with 2 25watt bulbs > > Thanks again for all your assistance. > > Alex > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 44881	From: Noura	Date: 12/4/2009
Subject: Re: Betta?

Do you think he'll be fine if moved to a small 1.5 G tank, which is the only available empty tank? I have a spare heater and a spare bubble-up filter that can be cycled in the community tank. Noura ----- Original Message ----- From: "Amber Berglund" <arberglund@...> To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Tuesday, December 01, 2009 5:41 AM Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Betta? I have kept one male betta with community fish in the past, but he didn't seem as active so I moved him to his own 10 gallon tank with 1 african dwarf frog. I've found him occasionally messing (displaying) with the frog, but he doesn't seem to pick on him. Sounds like you just have a very dominant betta, or another fish that looks the same color so the betta is in territorial mode all the time. I have witnessed them picking on guppy's and gourami's for sure, something about the bright colors and the shape of the gourami seems to set them off. They really like to have their own territory in their tank. Amber Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > > They will be more likely to go after other fish with longer flowing fins. > They usually can't catch fish with normal finnage as they are usually much > faster than fish with longer flowing finnage... but the Betta might get a > lucky bite now and then. > > Here's a snip from my blog article about "10 Gallon Tank Stocking

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 44882	From: greyclouds99	Date: 12/4/2009
Subject: Another Question ( Newbie, and Angelfish question)

I was wondering, maybe stupid thought, ammm.. it looks like I need to work on my self-esteem, I described myself as stupid in two occasions and I'm only here since a day! Anyway, how can the good bacteria stay safe while treating the "bad" bacteria with antibiotics? And if I wasn't that stupid and it turned out that those guys would die of the medication, what do I need to do to mentain the water quality without further stressing the fish? Tristan --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, sevenspringss@... wrote: > > Tristan, While I'm familiar with many diseases, including those common to > Cichlids and more specifically to Angelfish, this malady you are describing > is not one isolated only to this species. You would do best following > Lenny's advice here, while I will add to what he's already said, below. > > In readying your 15 gallon hospital tank for this fish, remove all but 5 > gallon of the new water you've already filled it with. Then, remove 10 > gallons from your 34 gallon tank to the 15 to fill that tank back up. This will > equate to doing a 1/3 (33%) PWC (partial water change) on that smaller tank > -- which is often recommended prior to medicating fish anyway. The > replacement water you will now be adding to your 34 gallon tank will be equivilent to > almost a 30% (29.4%) PWC, which will also be in the range of not being too > drastic and will be considered beneficial. This may be similar (or slightly > larger) than your present maintenance regimen anyway. > > We are assuming that even as the beginner you say you are, that you're > aware of needing to treat your aquarium water with a conditioner to remove > chloramines prior to (or at the time) using any fresh-drawn tap water for the > fish. This principle should likewise be followed for the fresh water you used > for the 15 gallon tank. While transferring some of your Betta's filter > media to this (15 gallon) tank's filter, you are thinking in the right > direction, but I would tend to think that this media may not be all too heavily > populated with your needed nitrifying bacteria only as a lone Betta would not > usually constitute a heavy bioload (unless housed in a smaller container). You > may want to consider also adding a small portion of the 34 gallon tank's > filter media to ensure an adequate cycling start for the hospital tank. You > can transfer the Angelfish anytime after properly setting up this hosptial > tank. > > While there are many disease (even of the eye in itself) that fish may > contract, I can't pinpoint what this may be determined to be diagnosed as, > except to say that it's of an internal bacterial nature. As this is quite > different from that condition referred to as "Pop-Eye," since you're not > describing this as bulging, a wider spectrum antibiotic would not be needed but > instead the mainly gram-negative (although still somewhat broad-spectrum) > Minocycline (Maracyn II -- by Mardel) that Lenny recommended would be a prudent > suggestion to follow, especially as it's one of the few quite readily absorbed > (internally) antibiotics -- and this most certainly appears to be a > bacterial issue. At the stage you are already describing though, while we may be > able to arrest this seemingly fast progressing disease, we may not be able to > prevent or restore the damage which has already occurred, but hopefully it > has not progressed to such a dangerous state and the fish's immune system may > be able to repair any minor damage in healing. > > If you can't find Mardel's Maracyn II (note: it must be Maracyn 2, not > plain Maracyn or Maracyn Plus), you may use KanaPlex (Kanamycin Sulfate) by > SeaChem, Nalagram (Naladixic Acid) or Furan 2 (Nitrofurazone, etc.) both by > Aquarium Pharmaceuticals -- in that order. Remove any carbon from your filters > when medicating. > > As is often most helpful when advising any treatment, could you fill us in > on how much and how often you do PWC's? Also, again for the advisor's (and > eventually for your's) benefit, please supply us with all of your water > parameters, in numbers -- to enable us to be ready to proceed in any certain > direction, if it's deemed necessary. Ray > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 44883	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 12/4/2009
Subject: Re: Betta?

If you can move some of the gravel, a decoration and a small live plant from his current tank to the 1.5G, that should be fine as far as cycling goes. I'm not sure if the Betta will like an air stone but if it's really small, it might be OK. Male Betta's don't like a lot of surface agitation since they like to build their bubble nests for courting that invisible female Betta that might swim near his tank. LOL When I had a male Betta in a large bowl/vase (1.5G+), I did not use any filtration or water circulation but when I finally set up a 10G for him, I did have a small HOB filter (for a 5G tank) but I had the water level up high enough that there was no waterfall or splashing from the HOB so there was limited surface agitation. I also put the HOB at one back corner of the tank and had some floating plants to buffer the surface ripples and the Betta would build his bubble nests at the other end of the tank where the water was very still. He would still swim all over, including around the filter discharge but he knew to build his bubble nests furthest away. If your room temperature isn't consistent, then using a heater is OK but you have to be really careful with heating only 1.5G of water. If the heater isn't accurate or malfunctions in the on position, it will not take long for it to overheat that small amount of water. I would probably opt for putting the tank in an area of the home that stays a consistent mid-70's (F) temperature, night and day. I have a blog article where I did an experiment on a 10g tank with a simulated failed heater in the on position and then in the off position to show how fast the water temps would change and it resulted in serious levels of change in just a few hours, with as much as 2F per hour change. It would be far worse and probably catastrophic in a 1.5G tank. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Noura Sent: Wednesday, December 02, 2009 6:10 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Betta? Do you think he'll be fine if moved to a small 1.5 G tank, which is the only available empty tank? I have a spare heater and a spare bubble-up filter that can be cycled in the community tank. Noura ----- Original Message ----- From: "Amber Berglund" <arberglund@...> To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Tuesday, December 01, 2009 5:41 AM Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Betta? I have kept one male betta with community fish in the past, but he didn't seem as active so I moved him to his own 10 gallon tank with 1 african dwarf frog. I've found him occasionally messing (displaying) with the frog, but he doesn't seem to pick on him. Sounds like you just have a very dominant betta, or another fish that looks the same color so the betta is in territorial mode all the time. I have witnessed them picking on guppy's and gourami's for sure, something about the bright colors and the shape of the gourami seems to set them off. They really like to have their own territory in their tank. Amber Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > > They will be more likely to go after other fish with longer flowing fins. > They usually can't catch fish with normal finnage as they are usually much > faster than fish with longer flowing finnage... but the Betta might get a > lucky bite now and then. > > Here's a snip from my blog article about "10 Gallon Tank Stocking

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 44884	From: greyclouds99	Date: 12/4/2009
Subject: Re: Newbie, and Angelfish question

Hi Ray and Lenny, Today I discarded 10 gallons off the H-tank and replaced them with water from my main 34g tank, then I acclimated the sick Angelfish and have just put him in now. Numbers: Temp. 79 Nitrite 0 Nitrates 10 GH 14 KH 10 pH 7.6 The water I used yesterday to fill the Q-tank wasn't coming directly from our water company, it first sets in the house's water supply tank, because we don't have the water coming 24/7 here. The water has been setting there for almost 16 hours before I used it to fill the tank, do you still think that I have no live bacteria left in my filter? However, I stupidly added the filter BEFORE waiting the temperature to rise, so -after thinking through it today- maybe the N-bacteria died of heat shock (78 --> 60) in an instant :( I moved a rock from the main tank to have some N-bacteria in the H-tank. But can't move any filter media, because it's a single sponge. I can however take the remaining filter media from my Crown Betta's tank (4gallons)if this champ can live without it. He's a tough guy BTW. I'm just looking at the Angelfish now, and seeing some bobblrs on its body and fins, doesn't look like a good sign. I looked at it from above and saw that the infected eye is slightly popping out. So I don't know if it's a pop-eye or not, it's more bloody than yesterday. I have both salt and something similar to Maracyn II available (Minocycline 50mg/tablet), but don't know how to use it, I have a few tablets given to me a couple of weeks ago without treating indications. (There were no sick fish in my tank back then) Another thing, I planted a big fake plant. The Angelfish is moving normally and looks as calm as usual while exploring the new home, doesn't look stressed to me. I'm waiting for your urgent help concerning dosing the medication and what to do about the bubbles. Tristan --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, sevenspringss@... wrote: > > Tristan, While I'm familiar with many diseases, including those common to > Cichlids and more specifically to Angelfish, this malady you are describing > is not one isolated only to this species. You would do best following > Lenny's advice here, while I will add to what he's already said, below. > > In readying your 15 gallon hospital tank for this fish, remove all but 5 > gallon of the new water you've already filled it with. Then, remove 10 > gallons from your 34 gallon tank to the 15 to fill that tank back up. This will > equate to doing a 1/3 (33%) PWC (partial water change) on that smaller tank > -- which is often recommended prior to medicating fish anyway. The > replacement water you will now be adding to your 34 gallon tank will be equivilent to > almost a 30% (29.4%) PWC, which will also be in the range of not being too > drastic and will be considered beneficial. This may be similar (or slightly > larger) than your present maintenance regimen anyway. > > We are assuming that even as the beginner you say you are, that you're > aware of needing to treat your aquarium water with a conditioner to remove > chloramines prior to (or at the time) using any fresh-drawn tap water for the > fish. This principle should likewise be followed for the fresh water you used > for the 15 gallon tank. While transferring some of your Betta's filter > media to this (15 gallon) tank's filter, you are thinking in the right > direction, but I would tend to think that this media may not be all too heavily > populated with your needed nitrifying bacteria only as a lone Betta would not > usually constitute a heavy bioload (unless housed in a smaller container). You > may want to consider also adding a small portion of the 34 gallon tank's > filter media to ensure an adequate cycling start for the hospital tank. You > can transfer the Angelfish anytime after properly setting up this hosptial > tank. > > While there are many disease (even of the eye in itself) that fish may > contract, I can't pinpoint what this may be determined to be diagnosed as, > except to say that it's of an internal bacterial nature. As this is quite > different from that condition referred to as "Pop-Eye," since you're not > describing this as bulging, a wider spectrum antibiotic would not be needed but > instead the mainly gram-negative (although still somewhat broad-spectrum) > Minocycline (Maracyn II -- by Mardel) that Lenny recommended would be a prudent > suggestion to follow, especially as it's one of the few quite readily absorbed > (internally) antibiotics -- and this most certainly appears to be a > bacterial issue. At the stage you are already describing though, while we may be > able to arrest this seemingly fast progressing disease, we may not be able to > prevent or restore the damage which has already occurred, but hopefully it > has not progressed to such a dangerous state and the fish's immune system may > be able to repair any minor damage in healing. > > If you can't find Mardel's Maracyn II (note: it must be Maracyn 2, not > plain Maracyn or Maracyn Plus), you may use KanaPlex (Kanamycin Sulfate) by > SeaChem, Nalagram (Naladixic Acid) or Furan 2 (Nitrofurazone, etc.) both by > Aquarium Pharmaceuticals -- in that order. Remove any carbon from your filters > when medicating. > > As is often most helpful when advising any treatment, could you fill us in > on how much and how often you do PWC's? Also, again for the advisor's (and > eventually for your's) benefit, please supply us with all of your water > parameters, in numbers -- to enable us to be ready to proceed in any certain > direction, if it's deemed necessary. Ray > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 44885	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 12/4/2009
Subject: Re: Another Question ( Newbie, and Angelfish question)

Remember the old saying... "There's no such thing as a stupid question... only a stupid answer!"... and hopefully, my answer doesn't fall into the latter. LOL Most nitrifying bacteria are gram-positive bacteria whereas most fish diseases are related to gram-negative bacteria. The Maracyn 2 medication, that I recommended, primarily combats gram-negative bacteria so the nitrifying bacteria should be OK but it's still good to test the water during treatment to be sure nothing else is going wrong. For more info, here's a snip from this reputable website article... http://www.americanaquariumproducts.com/Aquarium_Medication.html AQUARIUM MEDICATIONS, treatments, how they work, and which ones to use and not to use. (SNIP STARTS ABOUT 1/2 WAY DOWN THE PAGE) An anecdotal comment often stated is that use of antibiotics will kill your nitrifying bacteria, while this is true it is ONLY true for gram positive antibiotics or over use of others. Most true nitrifying bacteria (Autotrophic bacteria) are gram positive while the majority of aquarium infections (especially in marine aquaria) are gram negative. So the use of gram positive antibiotics such as Erythromycin has a greater risk of a nitrifying bacteria die-off than Kanamycin (which is both gram negative and gram positive, however this antibiotic is more effective against gram negative). Some antibiotics are more mixed such as the Tetracycline families which are often equally divided such as Minocycline; however Tetracycline Hydrochloride is primarily gram positive. References: What are Bacteria; http://www.dls.ym.edu.tw/ol_biology2/ultranet/Eubacteria.html , Cloudiness in Water. (END SNIP) Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of greyclouds99 Sent: Friday, December 04, 2009 4:31 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Re:Another Question ( Newbie, and Angelfish question) I was wondering, maybe stupid thought, ammm.. it looks like I need to work on my self-esteem, I described myself as stupid in two occasions and I'm only here since a day! Anyway, how can the good bacteria stay safe while treating the "bad" bacteria with antibiotics? And if I wasn't that stupid and it turned out that those guys would die of the medication, what do I need to do to mentain the water quality without further stressing the fish? Tristan --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, sevenspringss@... wrote: > > Tristan, While I'm familiar with many diseases, including those > common to Cichlids and more specifically to Angelfish, this malady you > are describing is not one isolated only to this species. You would do > best following Lenny's advice here, while I will add to what he's already said, below. > > In readying your 15 gallon hospital tank for this fish, remove all but > 5 gallon of the new water you've already filled it with. Then, remove > 10 gallons from your 34 gallon tank to the 15 to fill that tank back > up. This will equate to doing a 1/3 (33%) PWC (partial water change) > on that smaller tank > -- which is often recommended prior to medicating fish anyway. The > replacement water you will now be adding to your 34 gallon tank will > be equivilent to almost a 30% (29.4%) PWC, which will also be in the > range of not being too drastic and will be considered beneficial. > This may be similar (or slightly > larger) than your present maintenance regimen anyway. > > We are assuming that even as the beginner you say you are, that you're > aware of needing to treat your aquarium water with a conditioner to > remove chloramines prior to (or at the time) using any fresh-drawn tap > water for the fish. This principle should likewise be followed for > the fresh water you used for the 15 gallon tank. While transferring > some of your Betta's filter media to this (15 gallon) tank's filter, > you are thinking in the right direction, but I would tend to think > that this media may not be all too heavily populated with your needed > nitrifying bacteria only as a lone Betta would not usually constitute > a heavy bioload (unless housed in a smaller container). You may want > to consider also adding a small portion of the 34 gallon tank's filter > media to ensure an adequate cycling start for the hospital tank. You > can transfer the Angelfish anytime after properly setting up this hosptial tank. > > While there are many disease (even of the eye in itself) that fish may > contract, I can't pinpoint what this may be determined to be diagnosed > as, except to say that it's of an internal bacterial nature. As this > is quite different from that condition referred to as "Pop-Eye," since > you're not describing this as bulging, a wider spectrum antibiotic > would not be needed but instead the mainly gram-negative (although > still somewhat broad-spectrum) Minocycline (Maracyn II -- by Mardel) > that Lenny recommended would be a prudent suggestion to follow, > especially as it's one of the few quite readily absorbed > (internally) antibiotics -- and this most certainly appears to be a > bacterial issue. At the stage you are already describing though, > while we may be able to arrest this seemingly fast progressing > disease, we may not be able to prevent or restore the damage which has > already occurred, but hopefully it has not progressed to such a > dangerous state and the fish's immune system may be able to repair any minor damage in healing. > > If you can't find Mardel's Maracyn II (note: it must be Maracyn 2, not > plain Maracyn or Maracyn Plus), you may use KanaPlex (Kanamycin > Sulfate) by SeaChem, Nalagram (Naladixic Acid) or Furan 2 > (Nitrofurazone, etc.) both by Aquarium Pharmaceuticals -- in that > order. Remove any carbon from your filters when medicating. > > As is often most helpful when advising any treatment, could you fill > us in on how much and how often you do PWC's? Also, again for the > advisor's (and eventually for your's) benefit, please supply us with > all of your water parameters, in numbers -- to enable us to be ready to proceed in any certain > direction, if it's deemed necessary. Ray > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > ------------------------------------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the home page. Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com to receive the digest, which includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com for the No E-Mail option where you will still be able to read messages on the group and post replies. Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com to receive individual e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 44886	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 12/4/2009
Subject: Re: Newbie, and Angelfish question

If the water from the water company is treated with chlorine, there's a chance that 16 hours might be long enough for most of the chlorine to outgas and the water might have been OK, although it's better to let it out gas for 24-48 hours at room temp. At the lower outside temperature, 16 hours probably isn't long enough and it might take a week at lower temps. If they use chloramine, that takes 7-14 days to break down and outgas without the use of a dechlor product at room temperature, longer at cooler/colder temps. Yes, the water temperature could also be a cause of bacteria die off, especially if the water temp was down to 60F. All that said, I doubt any of your initial nitrifying bacteria survived. After you move the fish to the Q-tank, lift your sponge and squeeze some dirty juice into a bowl and then pour that into the Q-tank's filter system. That will transfer enough to at least give things a good jump start. Nitrifying bacteria are able to double their colony size every 24-48 hours so as long as you get a decent amount of N-bacteria into the Q-tank's filter, they will start growing their colony and probably keep up with the single angelfish's waste. Still test your water for ammonia every day to make sure it's not rising since you have a moderately high pH level. Ammonia becomes far more toxic at higher pH levels. You could always add more sponge juice to the Q-tank, if you see the ammonia levels rising above 0.25ppm. What do you mean by "bobblrs" on it's fin and body? I do not know the dosage of your medication. Hopefully, Ray will reply with details. My forte with fishkeeping is in keeping them from getting sick in the first place so I have only limited personal experience with using medications. I didn't address this issue with you in your first post but was planning on doing so once we get your Angelfish under treatment. While your tablets may be 50mg, there are different potency levels with many medications, sometimes a 50mg tablet might have 10% medication and 90% inert ingredients so without knowing more about the tablet, it's even hard for me to look up more info. If the pill has a medical number on it, that would probably help a lot.. or contact whoever gave you the tablets and ask them for more info. Hopefully, a few tablets will be enough but I'm not sure if it will be. (BUT READ ON AS A NEW PROBLEM ARISES BELOW) I did find this from a link from that reference I listed in a previous reply. Scroll down about 1/4th on this page and there's a large section about Minocycline/Maracyn 2. http://www.americanaquariumproducts.com/AquariumMedication2.html Now, a new problem arises. Since you have pretty hard water, Minocycline is not as effective as the calcium in the water will absorb the medication and that RED section of the part of the article recommends using Kanamycin for hard water conditions. I learn something new every day! Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of greyclouds99 Sent: Friday, December 04, 2009 4:08 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Newbie, and Angelfish question Hi Ray and Lenny, Today I discarded 10 gallons off the H-tank and replaced them with water from my main 34g tank, then I acclimated the sick Angelfish and have just put him in now. Numbers: Temp. 79 Nitrite 0 Nitrates 10 GH 14 KH 10 pH 7.6 The water I used yesterday to fill the Q-tank wasn't coming directly from our water company, it first sets in the house's water supply tank, because we don't have the water coming 24/7 here. The water has been setting there for almost 16 hours before I used it to fill the tank, do you still think that I have no live bacteria left in my filter? However, I stupidly added the filter BEFORE waiting the temperature to rise, so -after thinking through it today- maybe the N-bacteria died of heat shock (78 --> 60) in an instant :( I moved a rock from the main tank to have some N-bacteria in the H-tank. But can't move any filter media, because it's a single sponge. I can however take the remaining filter media from my Crown Betta's tank (4gallons)if this champ can live without it. He's a tough guy BTW. I'm just looking at the Angelfish now, and seeing some bobblrs on its body and fins, doesn't look like a good sign. I looked at it from above and saw that the infected eye is slightly popping out. So I don't know if it's a pop-eye or not, it's more bloody than yesterday. I have both salt and something similar to Maracyn II available (Minocycline 50mg/tablet), but don't know how to use it, I have a few tablets given to me a couple of weeks ago without treating indications. (There were no sick fish in my tank back then) Another thing, I planted a big fake plant. The Angelfish is moving normally and looks as calm as usual while exploring the new home, doesn't look stressed to me. I'm waiting for your urgent help concerning dosing the medication and what to do about the bubbles. Tristan --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, sevenspringss@... wrote: > > Tristan, While I'm familiar with many diseases, including those > common to Cichlids and more specifically to Angelfish, this malady you > are describing is not one isolated only to this species. You would do > best following Lenny's advice here, while I will add to what he's already said, below. > > In readying your 15 gallon hospital tank for this fish, remove all but > 5 gallon of the new water you've already filled it with. Then, remove > 10 gallons from your 34 gallon tank to the 15 to fill that tank back > up. This will equate to doing a 1/3 (33%) PWC (partial water change) > on that smaller tank > -- which is often recommended prior to medicating fish anyway. The > replacement water you will now be adding to your 34 gallon tank will > be equivilent to almost a 30% (29.4%) PWC, which will also be in the > range of not being too drastic and will be considered beneficial. > This may be similar (or slightly > larger) than your present maintenance regimen anyway. > > We are assuming that even as the beginner you say you are, that you're > aware of needing to treat your aquarium water with a conditioner to > remove chloramines prior to (or at the time) using any fresh-drawn tap > water for the fish. This principle should likewise be followed for > the fresh water you used for the 15 gallon tank. While transferring > some of your Betta's filter media to this (15 gallon) tank's filter, > you are thinking in the right direction, but I would tend to think > that this media may not be all too heavily populated with your needed > nitrifying bacteria only as a lone Betta would not usually constitute > a heavy bioload (unless housed in a smaller container). You may want > to consider also adding a small portion of the 34 gallon tank's filter > media to ensure an adequate cycling start for the hospital tank. You > can transfer the Angelfish anytime after properly setting up this hosptial tank. > > While there are many disease (even of the eye in itself) that fish may > contract, I can't pinpoint what this may be determined to be diagnosed > as, except to say that it's of an internal bacterial nature. As this > is quite different from that condition referred to as "Pop-Eye," since > you're not describing this as bulging, a wider spectrum antibiotic > would not be needed but instead the mainly gram-negative (although > still somewhat broad-spectrum) Minocycline (Maracyn II -- by Mardel) > that Lenny recommended would be a prudent suggestion to follow, > especially as it's one of the few quite readily absorbed > (internally) antibiotics -- and this most certainly appears to be a > bacterial issue. At the stage you are already describing though, > while we may be able to arrest this seemingly fast progressing > disease, we may not be able to prevent or restore the damage which has > already occurred, but hopefully it has not progressed to such a > dangerous state and the fish's immune system may be able to repair any minor damage in healing. > > If you can't find Mardel's Maracyn II (note: it must be Maracyn 2, not > plain Maracyn or Maracyn Plus), you may use KanaPlex (Kanamycin > Sulfate) by SeaChem, Nalagram (Naladixic Acid) or Furan 2 > (Nitrofurazone, etc.) both by Aquarium Pharmaceuticals -- in that > order. Remove any carbon from your filters when medicating. > > As is often most helpful when advising any treatment, could you fill > us in on how much and how often you do PWC's? Also, again for the > advisor's (and eventually for your's) benefit, please supply us with > all of your water parameters, in numbers -- to enable us to be ready to proceed in any certain > direction, if it's deemed necessary. Ray

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 44887	From: Dora Smith	Date: 12/4/2009
Subject: Problem with fish dying in my tank

I've suddenly got a whole bunch of fish dying in my 20 gallon tank. A few days ago I removed a dead pristella tetra. Today suddenly it's three danios and a pristella tetra, and it's teh larger danios and not the two little ones I bought a couple of days ago. I haven't seen any signs of disease, except that one of the danios had red gills for awhile. The remaining fish are swimming around happily, and their appetite is good. The ammonia is close to 0, nitrites 0, nitrates between 5 and 10 ppm. What should I do? Four little corpses are sitting next to the tank, if there's anything in particular I should look for. Yours, Dora Smith Austin, TX tiggernut24@...

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 44888	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 12/4/2009
Subject: Re: Problem with fish dying in my tank

It sounds like you added new fish to the tank "a couple of days ago" and now you have health issues so more than likely, the new fish brought in a pathogen that your existing fish did not have an immunity. More than likely a parasite, possibly gill flukes, instead of bacterial since bacterial infections do not normally kill so quickly. As a general rule, there really is no such thing as immunity for parasites although some fish are more susceptible than others to parasitic issues. There are some theories out there about external parasites and some fish containing a chemical in their slime coat that deters external parasites. This is why we preach about quarantining new fish for several weeks so you can observe them for any possible health issues and while I do not "pre-treat" quarantined fish for most health issues unless I see something specific, I will and do use and recommend PraziPro (praziquantel) in the Q-tank since it's a very mild treatment and will kill off gill flukes and many other internal flatworms. Many goldfish from large breeders with big outdoor ponds will almost always have gill flukes. I believe praziquantel is the same drug used to deworm cats and dogs... and humans too in the U.S.A., if they get this types of worms. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Praziquantel You could treat the tank with PraziPro while observing for other symptoms. Get the smallest bottle you can find as you only need a little bit for treatment. I have a 4 oz. bottle that I've used a few times and still have more than 3 oz. left. It will probably expire before I ever use it all since I haven't been buying any new fish for quite a while since I downsized my MTS after Katrina. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Dora Smith Sent: Friday, December 04, 2009 5:10 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Problem with fish dying in my tank I've suddenly got a whole bunch of fish dying in my 20 gallon tank. A few days ago I removed a dead pristella tetra. Today suddenly it's three danios and a pristella tetra, and it's teh larger danios and not the two little ones I bought a couple of days ago. I haven't seen any signs of disease, except that one of the danios had red gills for awhile. The remaining fish are swimming around happily, and their appetite is good. The ammonia is close to 0, nitrites 0, nitrates between 5 and 10 ppm. What should I do? Four little corpses are sitting next to the tank, if there's anything in particular I should look for. Yours, Dora Smith Austin, TX tiggernut24@...

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 44889	From: Dora Smith	Date: 12/4/2009
Subject: Re: [Bulk] RE: [AquaticLife] Problem with fish dying in my tank

Lenny, while I treat the tank with this stuff, what do I do with the filter media? I do have a good microscope and all the fish disease books; if gill flukes are there you'd think I can find them. I have been steadily but slowly losing danios for awhile, but they were all new fish, and they were also glofish. I decided they just weren't destined to live. They also developed that crookedy spine thing that I'm in fact noticing lately in all danios at Petco. The newest danios from two days ago came from Petsmart. But would gill flukes strike all at once? One other thing; where's the best place to get praziwhatsit in a hurry? Yours, Dora Smith Austin, TX tiggernut24@... ----- Original Message ----- From: "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@...> To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Friday, December 04, 2009 5:53 PM Subject: [Bulk] RE: [AquaticLife] Problem with fish dying in my tank It sounds like you added new fish to the tank "a couple of days ago" and now you have health issues so more than likely, the new fish brought in a pathogen that your existing fish did not have an immunity. More than likely a parasite, possibly gill flukes, instead of bacterial since bacterial infections do not normally kill so quickly. As a general rule, there really is no such thing as immunity for parasites although some fish are more susceptible than others to parasitic issues. There are some theories out there about external parasites and some fish containing a chemical in their slime coat that deters external parasites. This is why we preach about quarantining new fish for several weeks so you can observe them for any possible health issues and while I do not "pre-treat" quarantined fish for most health issues unless I see something specific, I will and do use and recommend PraziPro (praziquantel) in the Q-tank since it's a very mild treatment and will kill off gill flukes and many other internal flatworms. Many goldfish from large breeders with big outdoor ponds will almost always have gill flukes. I believe praziquantel is the same drug used to deworm cats and dogs... and humans too in the U.S.A., if they get this types of worms. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Praziquantel You could treat the tank with PraziPro while observing for other symptoms. Get the smallest bottle you can find as you only need a little bit for treatment. I have a 4 oz. bottle that I've used a few times and still have more than 3 oz. left. It will probably expire before I ever use it all since I haven't been buying any new fish for quite a while since I downsized my MTS after Katrina. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Dora Smith Sent: Friday, December 04, 2009 5:10 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Problem with fish dying in my tank I've suddenly got a whole bunch of fish dying in my 20 gallon tank. A few days ago I removed a dead pristella tetra. Today suddenly it's three danios and a pristella tetra, and it's teh larger danios and not the two little ones I bought a couple of days ago. I haven't seen any signs of disease, except that one of the danios had red gills for awhile. The remaining fish are swimming around happily, and their appetite is good. The ammonia is close to 0, nitrites 0, nitrates between 5 and 10 ppm. What should I do? Four little corpses are sitting next to the tank, if there's anything in particular I should look for. Yours, Dora Smith Austin, TX tiggernut24@... ------------------------------------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the home page. Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com to receive the digest, which includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com for the No E-Mail option where you will still be able to read messages on the group and post replies. Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com to receive individual e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 44890	From: Deenerz@aol.com	Date: 12/4/2009
Subject: Re: [Bulk] RE: [AquaticLife] Problem with fish dying in my tank

Walmart does not mention PraziPro or Praziquantal. Nor Does the other mega chains of Petco and Petsmart. Call your local fish shop and see if they carry it. http://www.google.com/products?q=AQUARIUM+PRODUCTS+AHK73254&hl=en&aq=f -Mike -----Original Message----- From: Dora Smith <tiggernut24@...> To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Fri, Dec 4, 2009 3:59 pm Subject: Re: [Bulk] RE: [AquaticLife] Problem with fish dying in my tank   Lenny, while I treat the tank with this stuff, what do I do with the filter media? I do have a good microscope and all the fish disease books; if gill flukes are there you'd think I can find them. I have been steadily but slowly losing danios for awhile, but they were all new fish, and they were also glofish. I decided they just weren't destined to live. They also developed that crookedy spine thing that I'm in fact noticing lately in all danios at Petco. The newest danios from two days ago came from Petsmart. But would gill flukes strike all at once? One other thing; where's the best place to get praziwhatsit in a hurry? Yours, Dora Smith Austin, TX tiggernut24@... ----- Original Message ----- From: "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@...> To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Friday, December 04, 2009 5:53 PM Subject: [Bulk] RE: [AquaticLife] Problem with fish dying in my tank It sounds like you added new fish to the tank "a couple of days ago" and now you have health issues so more than likely, the new fish brought in a pathogen that your existing fish did not have an immunity. More than likely a parasite, possibly gill flukes, instead of bacterial since bacterial infections do not normally kill so quickly. As a general rule, there really is no such thing as immunity for parasites although some fish are more susceptible than others to parasitic issues. There are some theories out there about external parasites and some fish containing a chemical in their slime coat that deters external parasites. This is why we preach about quarantining new fish for several weeks so you can observe them for any possible health issues and while I do not "pre-treat" quarantined fish for most health issues unless I see something specific, I will and do use and recommend PraziPro (praziquantel) in the Q-tank since it's a very mild treatment and will kill off gill flukes and many other internal flatworms. Many goldfish from large breeders with big outdoor ponds will almost always have gill flukes. I believe praziquantel is the same drug used to deworm cats and dogs... and humans too in the U.S.A., if they get this types of worms. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Praziquantel You could treat the tank with PraziPro while observing for other symptoms. Get the smallest bottle you can find as you only need a little bit for treatment. I have a 4 oz. bottle that I've used a few times and still have more than 3 oz. left. It will probably expire before I ever use it all since I haven't been buying any new fish for quite a while since I downsized my MTS after Katrina. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Dora Smith Sent: Friday, December 04, 2009 5:10 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Problem with fish dying in my tank I've suddenly got a whole bunch of fish dying in my 20 gallon tank. A few days ago I removed a dead pristella tetra. Today suddenly it's three danios and a pristella tetra, and it's teh larger danios and not the two little ones I bought a couple of days ago. I haven't seen any signs of disease, except that one of the danios had red gills for awhile. The remaining fish are swimming around happily, and their appetite is good. The ammonia is close to 0, nitrites 0, nitrates between 5 and 10 ppm. What should I do? Four little corpses are sitting next to the tank, if there's anything in particular I should look for. Yours, Dora Smith Austin, TX tiggernut24@... ------------------------------------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the home page. Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com to receive the digest, which includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com for the No E-Mail option where you will still be able to read messages on the group and post replies. Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com to receive individual e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 44891	From: Dora Smith	Date: 12/4/2009
Subject: Re: Problem with fish dying in my tank

I think they're too seriously decomposed to examine the gill tissue properly. Certainly it doesn't look like proper gill tissue; shrunken and brown. But the fish smell like human poop but somewhat worse. My books say that if the fish have been dead for more than 30 minutes they are probably too decomposed to examine gill tissue The living fish don't show any signs of anything the matter with their gills - or anything else. One of the danios has gills that look pinker than the others. Yours, Dora Smith Austin, TX tiggernut24@... ----- Original Message ----- From: "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@...> To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Friday, December 04, 2009 5:53 PM Subject: [Bulk] RE: [AquaticLife] Problem with fish dying in my tank It sounds like you added new fish to the tank "a couple of days ago" and now you have health issues so more than likely, the new fish brought in a pathogen that your existing fish did not have an immunity. More than likely a parasite, possibly gill flukes, instead of bacterial since bacterial infections do not normally kill so quickly. As a general rule, there really is no such thing as immunity for parasites although some fish are more susceptible than others to parasitic issues. There are some theories out there about external parasites and some fish containing a chemical in their slime coat that deters external parasites. This is why we preach about quarantining new fish for several weeks so you can observe them for any possible health issues and while I do not "pre-treat" quarantined fish for most health issues unless I see something specific, I will and do use and recommend PraziPro (praziquantel) in the Q-tank since it's a very mild treatment and will kill off gill flukes and many other internal flatworms. Many goldfish from large breeders with big outdoor ponds will almost always have gill flukes. I believe praziquantel is the same drug used to deworm cats and dogs... and humans too in the U.S.A., if they get this types of worms. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Praziquantel You could treat the tank with PraziPro while observing for other symptoms. Get the smallest bottle you can find as you only need a little bit for treatment. I have a 4 oz. bottle that I've used a few times and still have more than 3 oz. left. It will probably expire before I ever use it all since I haven't been buying any new fish for quite a while since I downsized my MTS after Katrina. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Dora Smith Sent: Friday, December 04, 2009 5:10 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Problem with fish dying in my tank I've suddenly got a whole bunch of fish dying in my 20 gallon tank. A few days ago I removed a dead pristella tetra. Today suddenly it's three danios and a pristella tetra, and it's teh larger danios and not the two little ones I bought a couple of days ago. I haven't seen any signs of disease, except that one of the danios had red gills for awhile. The remaining fish are swimming around happily, and their appetite is good. The ammonia is close to 0, nitrites 0, nitrates between 5 and 10 ppm. What should I do? Four little corpses are sitting next to the tank, if there's anything in particular I should look for. Yours, Dora Smith Austin, TX tiggernut24@... ------------------------------------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the home page. Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com to receive the digest, which includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com for the No E-Mail option where you will still be able to read messages on the group and post replies. Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com to receive individual e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 44892	From: Steve Biondi	Date: 12/4/2009
Subject: Advice for Bettas

Hi Lenny, Steve and the group, Guessing that New Orleans is wildly excited about them Saints. Even out here in SF, we are rooting for them. I picked up a 4 Bettas that currently reside in unheated bowls in my dining room. They never seem to eat the BettaBits . Any suggestions for getting them to eat? They don't appear to be starving but they're not even mildly piggish like my other fish.Temperature stays neat 65 most of the time, a little colder at night. What should I use to glue back one of my palm trees that was recently broken off? Would SuperGlue kill the fish? Thanks ,Steve [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 44893	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 12/4/2009
Subject: Re: [Bulk] RE: [AquaticLife] Problem with fish dying in my tank

The filter media is fine. As usual, remove carbon when using any medication. If you do a Google Image search on 'goldfish gill flukes microscope', I'm sure you'll find plenty of good microscopic images of what they look like, for comparative purposes. You need to quit buying fish for a while until you get your tank's health situation in check. It sounds like you may have issues already and then adding fish that might have other issues is just compounding things. Any fish you get from the big box stores should definitely be quarantined before adding them to your display tank. I guess, if you were getting fish from an individual breeder who you know to have healthy tanks, maybe one might risk adding them directly to a display tank but certainly not fish bought from anywhere else. How old are/were your zebra danios? Remember to add zebra in front as there are many types of danios but I'm pretty sure you have zebra danios and the glofish are zebra danios as well. ZD's should live for around five years, according to this very extensive fish lifespan guide... http://goldlenny.blogspot.com/2007/02/how-long-should-aquarium-fish-live.htm l (OUCH.. I just sprained my shoulder patting myself on the back! ;-)) If yours aren't making it at least 3-4 years, then something is going wrong. I have also seen the bent spine and/or swimming nose up near the bottom as two signs when a ZD is on it's last leg... or would that be fin? But mine were close to the five year mark and did not respond to any treatments so I believe it was just old age that did them in. I haven't owned any ZD's in a while but I just did a Google search of 'zebra danio bent spine' and there are hundreds of hits in forums so apparently this is something that seems to be more common with more recently purchased ZD's since most of these forum posts are from 2007 to present. I only saw one on Robin's page that was from 2001. Out of the 1,300+ hits, over 583 are from the past year. I hope this isn't something like NTD that ravished Neon Tetras for a long time. Bent spine, from what I recall, is one of the symptoms of Fish TB, but is also attributed to stray voltage and birth defects as well but there's a chance your tank/fish could have Fish TB. Read up more on that before jumping to any conclusions about this contagious disease... even contagious to humans but not related to Human TB. Parasites can spread quickly and then once they infest a fish/tank, it causes the fish a lot of stress and then the fish's immune system falters and other minor bacterial issues, that the fish would normally have warded off, becomes more critical. I'm not sure of the best place to get PraziPro. It's owned by Hikari now, if I'm not mistaken, so it could be in a big-box pet store or you might have to buy it online. I know DrsFosterSmith.com sells it and I'm sure many other big online fish sites sell it. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Dora Smith Sent: Friday, December 04, 2009 5:59 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [Bulk] RE: [AquaticLife] Problem with fish dying in my tank Lenny, while I treat the tank with this stuff, what do I do with the filter media? I do have a good microscope and all the fish disease books; if gill flukes are there you'd think I can find them. I have been steadily but slowly losing danios for awhile, but they were all new fish, and they were also glofish. I decided they just weren't destined to live. They also developed that crookedy spine thing that I'm in fact noticing lately in all danios at Petco. The newest danios from two days ago came from Petsmart. But would gill flukes strike all at once? One other thing; where's the best place to get praziwhatsit in a hurry? Yours, Dora Smith Austin, TX tiggernut24@... ----- Original Message ----- From: "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@...> To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Friday, December 04, 2009 5:53 PM Subject: [Bulk] RE: [AquaticLife] Problem with fish dying in my tank It sounds like you added new fish to the tank "a couple of days ago" and now you have health issues so more than likely, the new fish brought in a pathogen that your existing fish did not have an immunity. More than likely a parasite, possibly gill flukes, instead of bacterial since bacterial infections do not normally kill so quickly. As a general rule, there really is no such thing as immunity for parasites although some fish are more susceptible than others to parasitic issues. There are some theories out there about external parasites and some fish containing a chemical in their slime coat that deters external parasites. This is why we preach about quarantining new fish for several weeks so you can observe them for any possible health issues and while I do not "pre-treat" quarantined fish for most health issues unless I see something specific, I will and do use and recommend PraziPro (praziquantel) in the Q-tank since it's a very mild treatment and will kill off gill flukes and many other internal flatworms. Many goldfish from large breeders with big outdoor ponds will almost always have gill flukes. I believe praziquantel is the same drug used to deworm cats and dogs... and humans too in the U.S.A., if they get this types of worms. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Praziquantel You could treat the tank with PraziPro while observing for other symptoms. Get the smallest bottle you can find as you only need a little bit for treatment. I have a 4 oz. bottle that I've used a few times and still have more than 3 oz. left. It will probably expire before I ever use it all since I haven't been buying any new fish for quite a while since I downsized my MTS after Katrina. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Dora Smith Sent: Friday, December 04, 2009 5:10 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Problem with fish dying in my tank I've suddenly got a whole bunch of fish dying in my 20 gallon tank. A few days ago I removed a dead pristella tetra. Today suddenly it's three danios and a pristella tetra, and it's teh larger danios and not the two little ones I bought a couple of days ago. I haven't seen any signs of disease, except that one of the danios had red gills for awhile. The remaining fish are swimming around happily, and their appetite is good. The ammonia is close to 0, nitrites 0, nitrates between 5 and 10 ppm. What should I do? Four little corpses are sitting next to the tank, if there's anything in particular I should look for. Yours, Dora Smith Austin, TX tiggernut24@... ------------------------------------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the home page. Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com to receive the digest, which includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com for the No E-Mail option where you will still be able to read messages on the group and post replies. Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com to receive individual e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links ------------------------------------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the home page. Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com to receive the digest, which includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com for the No E-Mail option where you will still be able to read messages on the group and post replies. Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com to receive individual e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 44894	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 12/4/2009
Subject: Re: Advice for Bettas

Yep... N'Awlins is going pretty zonkers right now... but I've been around here as long as the Saints so I'll reserve my Superbowl rants for when they finally make it. I've seen them let us down far too many times over the years. All that said, I do have "GEAUX SAINTS!!! 11-0!!! KICKED SOME PATRIOT A$$ ON MONDAY NIGHT FOOTBALL" as my FaceBook status. LOL I rarely do anything on FaceBook but I have been updating the status each week since they hit 7-0. God help the planet if the Saints do make it all the way. N'Awlins will be going completely zonkers!!! And then Mardi Gras will start shortly thereafter so our version of a Superbowl Party could end up lasting a month or more. I'll need a vacation after all of that partying! The colder waters will lower their metabolisms... oh yeah, we're back on fish now as colder waters for Saints fans just means that we have to drink more to warm up... so that could be part of why they are not eating. You should try to get them into an area of your home where the temps are at least up into the low to mid-70's. Do not use Super Glue type glues in aquaria. The water will eventually dissolve the glue. Use either Aquarium safe silicone or a 2-part epoxy and make sure they have fully cured before putting the object back into the water. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Steve Biondi Sent: Friday, December 04, 2009 6:46 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Advice for Bettas Hi Lenny, Steve and the group, Guessing that New Orleans is wildly excited about them Saints. Even out here in SF, we are rooting for them. I picked up a 4 Bettas that currently reside in unheated bowls in my dining room. They never seem to eat the BettaBits . Any suggestions for getting them to eat? They don't appear to be starving but they're not even mildly piggish like my other fish.Temperature stays neat 65 most of the time, a little colder at night. What should I use to glue back one of my palm trees that was recently broken off? Would SuperGlue kill the fish? Thanks ,Steve

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 44895	From: Steve Biondi	Date: 12/4/2009
Subject: Re: Advice for Bettas

Should I be makin' plane reservations yet? We went thru that torture back in the 70's and 80's with the Niners before they won a Superbowl. We could move some of your tanks outside and set up an indoor site or even a miniHotel to enjoy the festivities. I hope that it happens but a month off will kill this group. Thanks for the tips. I'm gonna try to get some lights around them to warm the temp. Steve _____ From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Lenny V. aka GoldLenny Sent: Friday, December 04, 2009 5:33 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Advice for Bettas Yep... N'Awlins is going pretty zonkers right now... but I've been around here as long as the Saints so I'll reserve my Superbowl rants for when they finally make it. I've seen them let us down far too many times over the years. All that said, I do have "GEAUX SAINTS!!! 11-0!!! KICKED SOME PATRIOT A$$ ON MONDAY NIGHT FOOTBALL" as my FaceBook status. LOL I rarely do anything on FaceBook but I have been updating the status each week since they hit 7-0. God help the planet if the Saints do make it all the way. N'Awlins will be going completely zonkers!!! And then Mardi Gras will start shortly thereafter so our version of a Superbowl Party could end up lasting a month or more. I'll need a vacation after all of that partying! The colder waters will lower their metabolisms... oh yeah, we're back on fish now as colder waters for Saints fans just means that we have to drink more to warm up... so that could be part of why they are not eating. You should try to get them into an area of your home where the temps are at least up into the low to mid-70's. Do not use Super Glue type glues in aquaria. The water will eventually dissolve the glue. Use either Aquarium safe silicone or a 2-part epoxy and make sure they have fully cured before putting the object back into the water. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Steve Biondi Sent: Friday, December 04, 2009 6:46 PM To: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Advice for Bettas Hi Lenny, Steve and the group, Guessing that New Orleans is wildly excited about them Saints. Even out here in SF, we are rooting for them. I picked up a 4 Bettas that currently reside in unheated bowls in my dining room. They never seem to eat the BettaBits . Any suggestions for getting them to eat? They don't appear to be starving but they're not even mildly piggish like my other fish.Temperature stays neat 65 most of the time, a little colder at night. What should I use to glue back one of my palm trees that was recently broken off? Would SuperGlue kill the fish? Thanks ,Steve [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 44896	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 12/4/2009
Subject: Re: Planted Aquarium

See Amber's reply also and answer her questions as well. There should be a shield of some sort that should be in the overflow box on the tank side, to keep fish/critters from getting sucked in. See the Images tab and the middle image on this page. http://www.marinedepot.com/ps_ViewItem.aspx?category=CPR_CS_Overflow_Boxes_E xternal_Overflow_Boxes_for_Aquariums&vendor=CPR&idProduct=CR1511&IdCategory= FIOFEB&tab=2 There is the holey piece of plastic that is covering the intake side of the overflow and then a sponge filter covering the external part of the overflow so that even if a small fry should make it through the holes in the holey plastic, it would just end up in the overflow on the outside of the tank and could be netted back to the main tank. If you can't find the holey plastic material, then you should be able to improvise with a filter sponge block cut to fit in your overflow intake side. You could even have the sponge block sticking up above the overflow box so fish couldn't even get into the box if they wanted to. Here's some examples of the sponge block media. There are various pore sizes. http://www.amazon.com/ProClear-Aquatics-Sponge-Block-Pro150/dp/B0006JLUTK http://www.petmountain.com/category/346/1/aquarium-foam-sponges.html http://www.thatpetplace.com/pet/prod/207322/product.web?gdftrk=xh23lc0p/7HDy ~g3JgKLcxo30o9zaVSElqGwrCtL3k5jQStXmh90k5x6hluxJsJaQlulCLVfFRwZcBLslWdQq90nr sxdOMuSt0~Qn~VrgN1~wFpZfIecnYmUJu4YTzw/uIo6aQYdzzrmG/HW4Wt73Yo1MqVRDOdMCVWZN IOfJv1I5QWMxjGj53tYhyMsl3sG Your 25" high tank is not conducive to as many plants since you only have two 25W fluorescent bulbs but if you shop carefully and find 25W Daylight Bulbs that give off in excess of 2,000 lumens (I've seen where they can go from as low as 1,250 up to 2,225 lumens) or more, you could probably get away with having several varieties of low light plants. If you've been to my blog, "Planted Tank....", you'll see my lists and links to many low light, easy to grow plants that would work without the need to upgrade your lighting. If you win the lottery, then you can upgrade your lighting to a nice CFL fixture and have more plant options but there are dozens of plants in the low light category. Like Amber said, 475GPH for a 70G tank is not excessive although it may be on the high side for what many fish are comfortable with and many plants do not like that kind of flow rate. Usually, if a fish doesn't like that kind of water movement, they'll find an area with lower movement and hang out in that area all the time. Are you seeing this? Of course, you should read profiles on each of your fish to find out what kind of ecosystem they prefer and then try to get compatible tank mates. I like the profiles on http://fish.mongabay.com as a good starting place as they also have a paragraph called "SC" (Suggested Companions) that lists other suitable tankmates that prefer similar water parameters and ecosystems. How did you come up with a 4' elevation and that actual 475 GPH? Actually, the useful term for pumps, besides flow rate (GPH) is head pressure and there are several factors that affect head pressure, from elbows in the plumbing and other plumbing design issues like whether the right size pipe was used and then how far the pump has to push the water back up to the discharge. Can you take a picture of your tank, stand, filter and plumbing from various angles? I'm still not sure what your's even looks like. You could also test your actual flow rate using a large garbage can with a known water volume and then measure how long it takes to fill up the garbage can to a certain measured mark. 475GPH is equal to 7.9G per minute so if you mark off 8, 16 and 24G marks on a 30G garbage can, you could measure if it takes 3 minutes to reach the 24G mark or if it's faster or slower and then give us the actual times if you can't calculate it out yourself. You would want the top of the garbage can to be at the same height as the top of your tank. Do you have a sump tank under your main tank? How much water does the filter reservoir hold? You would need to add that volume to your 70G volume for true water volume of your system. For example, if you have a 20G sump tank under a 30G display tank, you could get away with stocking a little heavier since you have that extra 20G of water volume. There may still be territory issues but that's separate issue. Also, remind us of what you have left in your tank right now. I'm thinking just a pleco but I want to be sure and we also need to know what kind of pleco to figure out what other fish you can have. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of amejia1976 Sent: Friday, December 04, 2009 2:23 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Planted Aquarium WOW - talk about information overload - Thanks Lenny and Amber - you guys are so patient. Tank is still cycling as I have added 10 ghost shrimps and a feeder guppy here and there, also put a pantyhose on the overflow box to avoid the suction of death and a Plexiglas canopy to cover and reduce evaporation. Info on my tank Rectangular 25in Height x 36in Wide x 18in Deep Trickle Wet/Dry Filter similar to this but rated @ 75g http://z.about.com/d/saltaquarium/1/0/r/Y/1/EshoppsWetDry.jpg Tank overflow box similar to this in tank - this is also where the fishies got sucked into and up the u-tube http://www.aquabuys.com/miva/graphics/00000001/pca-overflow-box.jpg Pump WOW - just did some digging and found out the pump is rated @ 700gph @ zero elevation to 50gph @ 12ft elevation. Currently my elevation is 4ft which gives a 475gph flow - this might be a bit much? Could this be why the suction onto the overflow box slits is so strong? http://www.harrisonsponds.com/pdf/magdrive_250_700.pdf Test Results 11/19/09 Low pH @ 7.6 High pH @ 8.0 Ammonia @ 0 Nitrite @ 0 Nitrate @ 160 11/26/09 - this are also the exact same numbers from my tap. Testing was done 4 days after adding 2g of tap water. Have not done testing since - scheduled for this Saturday Low pH @ 6.4 High pH @ 8.0 Ammonia @ 0 Nitrite @ 0 Nitrate @ 0 2 Light Ballast rated @ up to 63watts with 2 25watt bulbs Thanks again for all your assistance. Alex

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 44897	From: Dora Smith	Date: 12/4/2009
Subject: Re: [Bulk] RE: [Bulk] RE: [AquaticLife] Problem with fish dying in m

Speaking of issues, I've got some patches of purple algae on the walls of my aquarium. Is this harmful? They probably came from teh algae rocks I used to feed my algae eaters, before I gave up on them. The water quality seems to be fine. No ammonia, no nitrites, and the nitrates are between 5 and 10 ppwhatever. The tank did go a bit downhill a week or so ago, but I've got it back up to snuff - except for the patches of purple algae. Yours, Dora Smith Austin, TX tiggernut24@... ----- Original Message ----- From: "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@...> To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Friday, December 04, 2009 7:22 PM Subject: [Bulk] RE: [Bulk] RE: [AquaticLife] Problem with fish dying in my tank The filter media is fine. As usual, remove carbon when using any medication. If you do a Google Image search on 'goldfish gill flukes microscope', I'm sure you'll find plenty of good microscopic images of what they look like, for comparative purposes. You need to quit buying fish for a while until you get your tank's health situation in check. It sounds like you may have issues already and then adding fish that might have other issues is just compounding things. Any fish you get from the big box stores should definitely be quarantined before adding them to your display tank. I guess, if you were getting fish from an individual breeder who you know to have healthy tanks, maybe one might risk adding them directly to a display tank but certainly not fish bought from anywhere else. How old are/were your zebra danios? Remember to add zebra in front as there are many types of danios but I'm pretty sure you have zebra danios and the glofish are zebra danios as well. ZD's should live for around five years, according to this very extensive fish lifespan guide... http://goldlenny.blogspot.com/2007/02/how-long-should-aquarium-fish-live.htm l (OUCH.. I just sprained my shoulder patting myself on the back! ;-)) If yours aren't making it at least 3-4 years, then something is going wrong. I have also seen the bent spine and/or swimming nose up near the bottom as two signs when a ZD is on it's last leg... or would that be fin? But mine were close to the five year mark and did not respond to any treatments so I believe it was just old age that did them in. I haven't owned any ZD's in a while but I just did a Google search of 'zebra danio bent spine' and there are hundreds of hits in forums so apparently this is something that seems to be more common with more recently purchased ZD's since most of these forum posts are from 2007 to present. I only saw one on Robin's page that was from 2001. Out of the 1,300+ hits, over 583 are from the past year. I hope this isn't something like NTD that ravished Neon Tetras for a long time. Bent spine, from what I recall, is one of the symptoms of Fish TB, but is also attributed to stray voltage and birth defects as well but there's a chance your tank/fish could have Fish TB. Read up more on that before jumping to any conclusions about this contagious disease... even contagious to humans but not related to Human TB. Parasites can spread quickly and then once they infest a fish/tank, it causes the fish a lot of stress and then the fish's immune system falters and other minor bacterial issues, that the fish would normally have warded off, becomes more critical. I'm not sure of the best place to get PraziPro. It's owned by Hikari now, if I'm not mistaken, so it could be in a big-box pet store or you might have to buy it online. I know DrsFosterSmith.com sells it and I'm sure many other big online fish sites sell it. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Dora Smith Sent: Friday, December 04, 2009 5:59 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [Bulk] RE: [AquaticLife] Problem with fish dying in my tank Lenny, while I treat the tank with this stuff, what do I do with the filter media? I do have a good microscope and all the fish disease books; if gill flukes are there you'd think I can find them. I have been steadily but slowly losing danios for awhile, but they were all new fish, and they were also glofish. I decided they just weren't destined to live. They also developed that crookedy spine thing that I'm in fact noticing lately in all danios at Petco. The newest danios from two days ago came from Petsmart. But would gill flukes strike all at once? One other thing; where's the best place to get praziwhatsit in a hurry? Yours, Dora Smith Austin, TX tiggernut24@... ----- Original Message ----- From: "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@...> To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Friday, December 04, 2009 5:53 PM Subject: [Bulk] RE: [AquaticLife] Problem with fish dying in my tank It sounds like you added new fish to the tank "a couple of days ago" and now you have health issues so more than likely, the new fish brought in a pathogen that your existing fish did not have an immunity. More than likely a parasite, possibly gill flukes, instead of bacterial since bacterial infections do not normally kill so quickly. As a general rule, there really is no such thing as immunity for parasites although some fish are more susceptible than others to parasitic issues. There are some theories out there about external parasites and some fish containing a chemical in their slime coat that deters external parasites. This is why we preach about quarantining new fish for several weeks so you can observe them for any possible health issues and while I do not "pre-treat" quarantined fish for most health issues unless I see something specific, I will and do use and recommend PraziPro (praziquantel) in the Q-tank since it's a very mild treatment and will kill off gill flukes and many other internal flatworms. Many goldfish from large breeders with big outdoor ponds will almost always have gill flukes. I believe praziquantel is the same drug used to deworm cats and dogs... and humans too in the U.S.A., if they get this types of worms. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Praziquantel You could treat the tank with PraziPro while observing for other symptoms. Get the smallest bottle you can find as you only need a little bit for treatment. I have a 4 oz. bottle that I've used a few times and still have more than 3 oz. left. It will probably expire before I ever use it all since I haven't been buying any new fish for quite a while since I downsized my MTS after Katrina. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Dora Smith Sent: Friday, December 04, 2009 5:10 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Problem with fish dying in my tank I've suddenly got a whole bunch of fish dying in my 20 gallon tank. A few days ago I removed a dead pristella tetra. Today suddenly it's three danios and a pristella tetra, and it's teh larger danios and not the two little ones I bought a couple of days ago. I haven't seen any signs of disease, except that one of the danios had red gills for awhile. The remaining fish are swimming around happily, and their appetite is good. The ammonia is close to 0, nitrites 0, nitrates between 5 and 10 ppm. What should I do? Four little corpses are sitting next to the tank, if there's anything in particular I should look for. Yours, Dora Smith Austin, TX tiggernut24@... ------------------------------------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the home page. Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com to receive the digest, which includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com for the No E-Mail option where you will still be able to read messages on the group and post replies. Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com to receive individual e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links ------------------------------------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the home page. Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com to receive the digest, which includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com for the No E-Mail option where you will still be able to read messages on the group and post replies. Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com to receive individual e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links ------------------------------------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the home page. Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com to receive the digest, which includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com for the No E-Mail option where you will still be able to read messages on the group and post replies. Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com to receive individual e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 44898	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 12/4/2009
Subject: Re: Advice for Bettas

I know I post a lot but I promise you I could disappear for ten years and this group still has thousands of other members who would easily fill my size 9 shoes. This group has been around a lot longer than I've been a member. I think some of the other's just sit back and read and let my stubby fingers do all the typing for them... so I'm the one to eventually get Carpal Tunnel Syndrome. ;-) The problem with using lights is that at night, the lights will presumably be off and then you would have issues with the temps bouncing up and down, possibly too much. What kind of cave do you live in that the temps are around 65F all the time? I keep my place around 72F year round but I do remember as a kid that my "damned yankee" dad (as my mom use to call all our Ohio relatives) use to keep our house around 68F so we kids would be bundled up in our blankets at night year round. 65F all the time seems kind of nippy to me but I guess once someone gets use to that, anything else would feel hot. Even at 72F, some of my friends think my place is like a refrigerator. Of course, I think their places are like ovens. As far as housing, back in the old days (and as recently as a couple of years ago), there's nothing to moving all the living room furniture to one side and having a row of them fancy full sized air beds set up to house all the visitors. Then there's the couch and also a futon in my spare room/office. I'm starting to remember my Spring Break college trips to Daytona Beach and Ft. Lauderdale where we'd have 10-12 people in a standard hotel room... more money left over for beer... and the only rule was that the first couple's back to the room got the beds and everyone else got floor space... or better yet, it motivated us to meet some girls that had normal hotel housing arrangements. LOL Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Steve Biondi Sent: Friday, December 04, 2009 7:46 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Advice for Bettas Should I be makin' plane reservations yet? We went thru that torture back in the 70's and 80's with the Niners before they won a Superbowl. We could move some of your tanks outside and set up an indoor site or even a miniHotel to enjoy the festivities. I hope that it happens but a month off will kill this group. Thanks for the tips. I'm gonna try to get some lights around them to warm the temp. Steve _____ From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Lenny V. aka GoldLenny Sent: Friday, December 04, 2009 5:33 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Advice for Bettas Yep... N'Awlins is going pretty zonkers right now... but I've been around here as long as the Saints so I'll reserve my Superbowl rants for when they finally make it. I've seen them let us down far too many times over the years. All that said, I do have "GEAUX SAINTS!!! 11-0!!! KICKED SOME PATRIOT A$$ ON MONDAY NIGHT FOOTBALL" as my FaceBook status. LOL I rarely do anything on FaceBook but I have been updating the status each week since they hit 7-0. God help the planet if the Saints do make it all the way. N'Awlins will be going completely zonkers!!! And then Mardi Gras will start shortly thereafter so our version of a Superbowl Party could end up lasting a month or more. I'll need a vacation after all of that partying! The colder waters will lower their metabolisms... oh yeah, we're back on fish now as colder waters for Saints fans just means that we have to drink more to warm up... so that could be part of why they are not eating. You should try to get them into an area of your home where the temps are at least up into the low to mid-70's. Do not use Super Glue type glues in aquaria. The water will eventually dissolve the glue. Use either Aquarium safe silicone or a 2-part epoxy and make sure they have fully cured before putting the object back into the water. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Steve Biondi Sent: Friday, December 04, 2009 6:46 PM To: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Advice for Bettas Hi Lenny, Steve and the group, Guessing that New Orleans is wildly excited about them Saints. Even out here in SF, we are rooting for them. I picked up a 4 Bettas that currently reside in unheated bowls in my dining room. They never seem to eat the BettaBits . Any suggestions for getting them to eat? They don't appear to be starving but they're not even mildly piggish like my other fish.Temperature stays neat 65 most of the time, a little colder at night. What should I use to glue back one of my palm trees that was recently broken off? Would SuperGlue kill the fish? Thanks ,Steve

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 44899	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 12/4/2009
Subject: Re: [Bulk] RE: [Bulk] RE: [AquaticLife] Problem with fish dying in m

I have never heard or seen purple algae (and purple is my favorite color, so I'd know, LOL). I would be suspicious of the algae and do some google searching to see if it's a harmful type. Amber Dora Smith wrote: > > Speaking of issues, I've got some patches of purple algae on the walls > of my > aquarium. Is this harmful? They probably came from teh algae rocks I > used to feed my algae eaters, before I gave up on them. > > The water quality seems to be fine. No ammonia, no nitrites, and the > nitrates are between 5 and 10 ppwhatever. The tank did go a bit > downhill a > week or so ago, but I've got it back up to snuff - except for the > patches of > purple algae. > > Yours, > Dora Smith > Austin, TX > tiggernut24@... <mailto:tiggernut24%40yahoo.com> > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@... > <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com>> > To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>> > Sent: Friday, December 04, 2009 7:22 PM > Subject: [Bulk] RE: [Bulk] RE: [AquaticLife] Problem with fish dying > in my > tank > > The filter media is fine. As usual, remove carbon when using any > medication. > > If you do a Google Image search on 'goldfish gill flukes microscope', I'm > sure you'll find plenty of good microscopic images of what they look like, > for comparative purposes. > > You need to quit buying fish for a while until you get your tank's health > situation in check. It sounds like you may have issues already and then > adding fish that might have other issues is just compounding things. Any > fish you get from the big box stores should definitely be quarantined > before > adding them to your display tank. I guess, if you were getting fish > from an > individual breeder who you know to have healthy tanks, maybe one might > risk > adding them directly to a display tank but certainly not fish bought from > anywhere else. > > How old are/were your zebra danios? Remember to add zebra in front as > there > are many types of danios but I'm pretty sure you have zebra danios and the > glofish are zebra danios as well. ZD's should live for around five years, > according to this very extensive fish lifespan guide... > http://goldlenny.blogspot.com/2007/02/how-long-should-aquarium-fish-live.htm > <http://goldlenny.blogspot.com/2007/02/how-long-should-aquarium-fish-live.htm> > l (OUCH.. I just sprained my shoulder patting myself on the back! ;-)) If > yours aren't making it at least 3-4 years, then something is going > wrong. I > have also seen the bent spine and/or swimming nose up near the bottom > as two > signs when a ZD is on it's last leg... or would that be fin? But mine were > close to the five year mark and did not respond to any treatments so I > believe it was just old age that did them in. > > I haven't owned any ZD's in a while but I just did a Google search of > 'zebra > danio bent spine' and there are hundreds of hits in forums so apparently > this is something that seems to be more common with more recently > purchased > ZD's since most of these forum posts are from 2007 to present. I only saw > one on Robin's page that was from 2001. Out of the 1,300+ hits, over 583 > are from the past year. I hope this isn't something like NTD that ravished > Neon Tetras for a long time. Bent spine, from what I recall, is one of the > symptoms of Fish TB, but is also attributed to stray voltage and birth > defects as well but there's a chance your tank/fish could have Fish TB. > Read up more on that before jumping to any conclusions about this > contagious > disease... even contagious to humans but not related to Human TB. > > Parasites can spread quickly and then once they infest a fish/tank, it > causes the fish a lot of stress and then the fish's immune system falters > and other minor bacterial issues, that the fish would normally have warded > off, becomes more critical. > > I'm not sure of the best place to get PraziPro. It's owned by Hikari now, > if I'm not mistaken, so it could be in a big-box pet store or you > might have > to buy it online. I know DrsFosterSmith.com sells it and I'm sure many > other big online fish sites sell it. > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right > side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On > Behalf Of Dora Smith > Sent: Friday, December 04, 2009 5:59 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Subject: Re: [Bulk] RE: [AquaticLife] Problem with fish dying in my tank > > Lenny, while I treat the tank with this stuff, what do I do with the > filter > media? > > I do have a good microscope and all the fish disease books; if gill flukes > are there you'd think I can find them. > > I have been steadily but slowly losing danios for awhile, but they > were all > new fish, and they were also glofish. I decided they just weren't destined > to live. They also developed that crookedy spine thing that I'm in fact > noticing lately in all danios at Petco. The newest danios from two days > ago came from Petsmart. > > But would gill flukes strike all at once? > > One other thing; where's the best place to get praziwhatsit in a hurry? > > Yours, > Dora Smith > Austin, TX > tiggernut24@... <mailto:tiggernut24%40yahoo.com> > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@... > <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com>> > To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>> > Sent: Friday, December 04, 2009 5:53 PM > Subject: [Bulk] RE: [AquaticLife] Problem with fish dying in my tank > > It sounds like you added new fish to the tank "a couple of days ago" > and now > you have health issues so more than likely, the new fish brought in a > pathogen that your existing fish did not have an immunity. More than > likely > a parasite, possibly gill flukes, instead of bacterial since bacterial > infections do not normally kill so quickly. As a general rule, there > really > is no such thing as immunity for parasites although some fish are more > susceptible than others to parasitic issues. There are some theories out > there about external parasites and some fish containing a chemical in > their > slime coat that deters external parasites. > > This is why we preach about quarantining new fish for several weeks so you > can observe them for any possible health issues and while I do not > "pre-treat" quarantined fish for most health issues unless I see something > specific, I will and do use and recommend PraziPro (praziquantel) in the > Q-tank since it's a very mild treatment and will kill off gill flukes and > many other internal flatworms. Many goldfish from large breeders with big > outdoor ponds will almost always have gill flukes. I believe praziquantel > is the same drug used to deworm cats and dogs... and humans too in the > U.S.A., if they get this types of worms. > http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Praziquantel > <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Praziquantel> > > You could treat the tank with PraziPro while observing for other symptoms. > Get the smallest bottle you can find as you only need a little bit for > treatment. I have a 4 oz. bottle that I've used a few times and still have > more than 3 oz. left. It will probably expire before I ever use it all > since I haven't been buying any new fish for quite a while since I > downsized > my MTS after Katrina. > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right > side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On > Behalf Of Dora Smith > Sent: Friday, December 04, 2009 5:10 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Subject: [AquaticLife] Problem with fish dying in my tank > > I've suddenly got a whole bunch of fish dying in my 20 gallon tank. A few > days ago I removed a dead pristella tetra. Today suddenly it's three > danios and a pristella tetra, and it's teh larger danios and not the two > little ones I bought a couple of days ago. > > I haven't seen any signs of disease, except that one of the danios had red > gills for awhile. > > The remaining fish are swimming around happily, and their appetite is > good. > > The ammonia is close to 0, nitrites 0, nitrates between 5 and 10 ppm. > > What should I do? > > Four little corpses are sitting next to the tank, if there's anything in > particular I should look for. > > Yours, > Dora Smith > Austin, TX > tiggernut24@... <mailto:tiggernut24%40yahoo.com> > > ------------------------------------ > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. > ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> > PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to > the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the > SUBJECT > > LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- > <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. > > If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of unsubscribing, you > can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the > home page. > > Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:aquaticlife-digest%40yahoogroups.com> to receive the digest, which > includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email > > Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:aquaticlife-nomail%40yahoogroups.com> for the No E-Mail option > where > you will still be able to read messages on the group and post replies. > > Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:aquaticlife-normal%40yahoogroups.com> to receive individual > e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links > > ------------------------------------ > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. > ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> > PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to > the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the > SUBJECT > LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- > <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. > > If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of unsubscribing, you > can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the > home page. > > Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:aquaticlife-digest%40yahoogroups.com> to receive the digest, which > includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email > > Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:aquaticlife-nomail%40yahoogroups.com> for the No E-Mail option > where > you will still be able to read messages on the group and post replies. > > Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:aquaticlife-normal%40yahoogroups.com> to receive individual > e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links > > ------------------------------------ > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. > ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> > PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT > important to > the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the > SUBJECT > LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- > <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. > > If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of unsubscribing, > you > can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My Membership" on > the > home page. > > Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:aquaticlife-digest%40yahoogroups.com> to receive the digest, > which > includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email > > Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:aquaticlife-nomail%40yahoogroups.com> for the No E-Mail option > where > you will still be able to read messages on the group and post replies. > > Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:aquaticlife-normal%40yahoogroups.com> to receive individual > e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 44900	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 12/4/2009
Subject: Re: [Bulk] RE: [Bulk] RE: [AquaticLife] Problem with fish dying in m

Purple Algae??? I've read that BBA (Black Brush Algae - Audouinella sp.) can be in the red to brown range which might result in a purple looking color, but purple is not very common from all I've read over the years. BGA (Blue Green Algae), which is actually Cyanobacteria can also be in various colorations from blue-green to dark green and almost black so I'm guessing a purple could develop. The BBA isn't harmful but BGA can be harmful. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cyanobacteria#Health_risks Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Dora Smith Sent: Friday, December 04, 2009 8:12 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [Bulk] RE: [Bulk] RE: [AquaticLife] Problem with fish dying in my tank Speaking of issues, I've got some patches of purple algae on the walls of my aquarium. Is this harmful? They probably came from teh algae rocks I used to feed my algae eaters, before I gave up on them. The water quality seems to be fine. No ammonia, no nitrites, and the nitrates are between 5 and 10 ppwhatever. The tank did go a bit downhill a week or so ago, but I've got it back up to snuff - except for the patches of purple algae. Yours, Dora Smith Austin, TX tiggernut24@... ----- Original Message ----- From: "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@...> To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Friday, December 04, 2009 7:22 PM Subject: [Bulk] RE: [Bulk] RE: [AquaticLife] Problem with fish dying in my tank The filter media is fine. As usual, remove carbon when using any medication. If you do a Google Image search on 'goldfish gill flukes microscope', I'm sure you'll find plenty of good microscopic images of what they look like, for comparative purposes. You need to quit buying fish for a while until you get your tank's health situation in check. It sounds like you may have issues already and then adding fish that might have other issues is just compounding things. Any fish you get from the big box stores should definitely be quarantined before adding them to your display tank. I guess, if you were getting fish from an individual breeder who you know to have healthy tanks, maybe one might risk adding them directly to a display tank but certainly not fish bought from anywhere else. How old are/were your zebra danios? Remember to add zebra in front as there are many types of danios but I'm pretty sure you have zebra danios and the glofish are zebra danios as well. ZD's should live for around five years, according to this very extensive fish lifespan guide... http://goldlenny.blogspot.com/2007/02/how-long-should-aquarium-fish-live.htm l (OUCH.. I just sprained my shoulder patting myself on the back! ;-)) If yours aren't making it at least 3-4 years, then something is going wrong. I have also seen the bent spine and/or swimming nose up near the bottom as two signs when a ZD is on it's last leg... or would that be fin? But mine were close to the five year mark and did not respond to any treatments so I believe it was just old age that did them in. I haven't owned any ZD's in a while but I just did a Google search of 'zebra danio bent spine' and there are hundreds of hits in forums so apparently this is something that seems to be more common with more recently purchased ZD's since most of these forum posts are from 2007 to present. I only saw one on Robin's page that was from 2001. Out of the 1,300+ hits, over 583 are from the past year. I hope this isn't something like NTD that ravished Neon Tetras for a long time. Bent spine, from what I recall, is one of the symptoms of Fish TB, but is also attributed to stray voltage and birth defects as well but there's a chance your tank/fish could have Fish TB. Read up more on that before jumping to any conclusions about this contagious disease... even contagious to humans but not related to Human TB. Parasites can spread quickly and then once they infest a fish/tank, it causes the fish a lot of stress and then the fish's immune system falters and other minor bacterial issues, that the fish would normally have warded off, becomes more critical. I'm not sure of the best place to get PraziPro. It's owned by Hikari now, if I'm not mistaken, so it could be in a big-box pet store or you might have to buy it online. I know DrsFosterSmith.com sells it and I'm sure many other big online fish sites sell it. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Dora Smith Sent: Friday, December 04, 2009 5:59 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [Bulk] RE: [AquaticLife] Problem with fish dying in my tank Lenny, while I treat the tank with this stuff, what do I do with the filter media? I do have a good microscope and all the fish disease books; if gill flukes are there you'd think I can find them. I have been steadily but slowly losing danios for awhile, but they were all new fish, and they were also glofish. I decided they just weren't destined to live. They also developed that crookedy spine thing that I'm in fact noticing lately in all danios at Petco. The newest danios from two days ago came from Petsmart. But would gill flukes strike all at once? One other thing; where's the best place to get praziwhatsit in a hurry? Yours, Dora Smith Austin, TX tiggernut24@... ----- Original Message ----- From: "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@...> To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Friday, December 04, 2009 5:53 PM Subject: [Bulk] RE: [AquaticLife] Problem with fish dying in my tank It sounds like you added new fish to the tank "a couple of days ago" and now you have health issues so more than likely, the new fish brought in a pathogen that your existing fish did not have an immunity. More than likely a parasite, possibly gill flukes, instead of bacterial since bacterial infections do not normally kill so quickly. As a general rule, there really is no such thing as immunity for parasites although some fish are more susceptible than others to parasitic issues. There are some theories out there about external parasites and some fish containing a chemical in their slime coat that deters external parasites. This is why we preach about quarantining new fish for several weeks so you can observe them for any possible health issues and while I do not "pre-treat" quarantined fish for most health issues unless I see something specific, I will and do use and recommend PraziPro (praziquantel) in the Q-tank since it's a very mild treatment and will kill off gill flukes and many other internal flatworms. Many goldfish from large breeders with big outdoor ponds will almost always have gill flukes. I believe praziquantel is the same drug used to deworm cats and dogs... and humans too in the U.S.A., if they get this types of worms. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Praziquantel You could treat the tank with PraziPro while observing for other symptoms. Get the smallest bottle you can find as you only need a little bit for treatment. I have a 4 oz. bottle that I've used a few times and still have more than 3 oz. left. It will probably expire before I ever use it all since I haven't been buying any new fish for quite a while since I downsized my MTS after Katrina. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Dora Smith Sent: Friday, December 04, 2009 5:10 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Problem with fish dying in my tank I've suddenly got a whole bunch of fish dying in my 20 gallon tank. A few days ago I removed a dead pristella tetra. Today suddenly it's three danios and a pristella tetra, and it's teh larger danios and not the two little ones I bought a couple of days ago. I haven't seen any signs of disease, except that one of the danios had red gills for awhile. The remaining fish are swimming around happily, and their appetite is good. The ammonia is close to 0, nitrites 0, nitrates between 5 and 10 ppm. What should I do? Four little corpses are sitting next to the tank, if there's anything in particular I should look for. Yours, Dora Smith Austin, TX tiggernut24@...

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 44901	From: greyclouds99	Date: 12/5/2009
Subject: RAY- Re: Newbie, and Angelfish question

Gosh! Man,all these new infos and readings make me wanna flush that Angelfish straight to Fish heaven!! ....... KIDDING! I didn't bear all the trouble of setting a 15g tank to eventually flush the poor thing. "bobblrs"? Did I say that? my 1yo daughter must have transmigrated to my tongue for a second when I typed that! I meant "bubbles", but anyway the "bobblrs" are gone now, except for a tiny one at the end of the tail fin. She -the Angelfish- seems to be doing good in her new aquarium, still didn't feed her anything since this morning, neither treated the water, I don't know if I should feed her as normal or less? There's no nearby fish store here, nothing closer than a 35 mile circle, so I'm on my own right now, unless I used "human medications", is it possible? The suchet I have says: Monocycline 150mg (as Hydrochloride)-not 50 mg as I mentioned earlier. I have 8 of these tablets, they're supposed to melt in the water as I was told, or you can crush them and put them in. So, Ray, I'm waiting for your advise. I may have a trip to the city tomorrow, so I can see what medications they got, but they don't have Kanamycine that's for sure (just called a friend asking about it). Do you think that salt can be used-helpful besides the medication? Thanks for the valuable advices Tristan --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@...> wrote: > > If the water from the water company is treated with chlorine, there's a > chance that 16 hours might be long enough for most of the chlorine to outgas > and the water might have been OK, although it's better to let it out gas for > 24-48 hours at room temp. At the lower outside temperature, 16 hours > probably isn't long enough and it might take a week at lower temps. If they > use chloramine, that takes 7-14 days to break down and outgas without the > use of a dechlor product at room temperature, longer at cooler/colder temps. > > > Yes, the water temperature could also be a cause of bacteria die off, > especially if the water temp was down to 60F. > > All that said, I doubt any of your initial nitrifying bacteria survived. > > After you move the fish to the Q-tank, lift your sponge and squeeze some > dirty juice into a bowl and then pour that into the Q-tank's filter system. > That will transfer enough to at least give things a good jump start. > Nitrifying bacteria are able to double their colony size every 24-48 hours > so as long as you get a decent amount of N-bacteria into the Q-tank's > filter, they will start growing their colony and probably keep up with the > single angelfish's waste. Still test your water for ammonia every day to > make sure it's not rising since you have a moderately high pH level. > Ammonia becomes far more toxic at higher pH levels. You could always add > more sponge juice to the Q-tank, if you see the ammonia levels rising above > 0.25ppm. > > What do you mean by "bobblrs" on it's fin and body? > > I do not know the dosage of your medication. Hopefully, Ray will reply with > details. My forte with fishkeeping is in keeping them from getting sick in > the first place so I have only limited personal experience with using > medications. I didn't address this issue with you in your first post but > was planning on doing so once we get your Angelfish under treatment. > > While your tablets may be 50mg, there are different potency levels with many > medications, sometimes a 50mg tablet might have 10% medication and 90% inert > ingredients so without knowing more about the tablet, it's even hard for me > to look up more info. If the pill has a medical number on it, that would > probably help a lot.. or contact whoever gave you the tablets and ask them > for more info. Hopefully, a few tablets will be enough but I'm not sure if > it will be. (BUT READ ON AS A NEW PROBLEM ARISES BELOW) > > I did find this from a link from that reference I listed in a previous > reply. Scroll down about 1/4th on this page and there's a large section > about Minocycline/Maracyn 2. > http://www.americanaquariumproducts.com/AquariumMedication2.html > > Now, a new problem arises. > > Since you have pretty hard water, Minocycline is not as effective as the > calcium in the water will absorb the medication and that RED section of the > part of the article recommends using Kanamycin for hard water conditions. I > learn something new every day! > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right > side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On > Behalf Of greyclouds99 > Sent: Friday, December 04, 2009 4:08 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Newbie, and Angelfish question > > Hi Ray and Lenny, > Today I discarded 10 gallons off the H-tank and replaced them with water > from my main 34g tank, then I acclimated the sick Angelfish and have just > put him in now. > Numbers: > Temp. 79 > Nitrite 0 > Nitrates 10 > GH 14 > KH 10 > pH 7.6 > > The water I used yesterday to fill the Q-tank wasn't coming directly from > our water company, it first sets in the house's water supply tank, because > we don't have the water coming 24/7 here. The water has been setting there > for almost 16 hours before I used it to fill the tank, do you still think > that I have no live bacteria left in my filter? > However, I stupidly added the filter BEFORE waiting the temperature to rise, > so -after thinking through it today- maybe the N-bacteria died of heat shock > (78 --> 60) in an instant :( > > I moved a rock from the main tank to have some N-bacteria in the H-tank. But > can't move any filter media, because it's a single sponge. I can however > take the remaining filter media from my Crown Betta's tank (4gallons)if this > champ can live without it. He's a tough guy BTW. > > I'm just looking at the Angelfish now, and seeing some bobblrs on its body > and fins, doesn't look like a good sign. > > I looked at it from above and saw that the infected eye is slightly popping > out. So I don't know if it's a pop-eye or not, it's more bloody than > yesterday. > I have both salt and something similar to Maracyn II available (Minocycline > 50mg/tablet), but don't know how to use it, I have a few tablets given to me > a couple of weeks ago without treating indications. (There were no sick fish > in my tank back then) > > Another thing, I planted a big fake plant. The Angelfish is moving normally > and looks as calm as usual while exploring the new home, doesn't look > stressed to me. > I'm waiting for your urgent help concerning dosing the medication and what > to do about the bubbles. > > Tristan > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 44902	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 12/5/2009
Subject: Re: RAY- Re: Newbie, and Angelfish question

This page from DrsFosterSmith.com has dosing information for Mardel's Maracyn 2, under the "More Information" tab. DFS is generally a reliable source of details and these instructions look accurate from the last time I used this medication which was several years ago. http://www.drsfostersmith.com/Product/Prod_Display.cfm?pcatid=4842 Maracyn-Two Powder Freshwater Active Ingredient Each powder packet contains 10 mg Minocycline activity. NOTE: Be sure to treat for the full duration recommended, even if symptoms disappear after a few days. DO NOT overdose. Follow dosage directions as detailed on the product packaging. Dosing Instructions First day, add 2 packets per 10 gallons of water. On the second through fifth day, add 1 packet per 10 gallons of water. Repeat this 5 day treatment only once if needed. (READ THE REST OF THE TABBED INFORMATION FOR MORE DETAILS AND THE FACT THAT THERE IS A SEPARATE MARACYN-2 PRODUCT FOR SALTWATER TANKS WITH DIFFERENT INGREDIENTS, PROBABLY DUE TO THE HARD WATER EFFECT ON MINOCYCLINE) IF... AND THAT'S A BIG IF... your tablets are pure Minocycline, then your 150mg tablets are WAY TOO MUCH to use at one time in a 15G tank. I wish we knew for certain if they were pure or not. Are there any numbers on the pills? Most pills/capsules have some kind of number on them and then we could look that up to know if they are pure or if they have inert ingredients as part of the pill. For the below info, I'm presuming they are pure but if they are only 10% active ingredients, then the below calculations would be WAY OFF. The above instructions from DFS says to use 20mg of Minocycline per 10G of water for the initial dose and then only 10mg per 10G per day on the 2nd through 5th day. It also says DO NOT OVERDOSE so that adds an important twist to things. This would calculate to 30mg per 15G on the first day and 15mg each subsequent day. - ACTUAL DIRECTIONS FOR DOSING YOUR TANK BASED ON ALL OF THE ABOVE - If you can accurately split your tablets into four parts, each part would have around 37.5mg of Minocycline. If you dissolve and mix that first 37.5mg portion in 3 oz. of distilled water (or possibly bottled water that is not as hard as your tank water), you could then add 2 oz. of that water to your 15G tank for the first day and then the remaining 1 oz. on the next day (NOTE - I WOULD REFRIGERATE THIS LEFT OVER 1 OZ. UNTIL NEEDED THE NEXT DAY) This would be slightly under dosing but pretty close to the actual dose. That first 1/4 tablet would treat day one and two. Then, on day three, dissolve and mix another 1/4 tablet in 2 oz. of water and add 1 oz. of this water on day three and then the remaining refrigerated 1 oz. on day four. These would be slight overdoses (adding 18.75mg instead of 15mg, which isn't much). Do the same for days five and you might as well treat a sixth day since you will have 1 oz. of medicated water. The official directions from Mardel says you can repeat their medication program for five more days, if needed, so this sixth day would technically be the first day of the second five day treatment, if needed. If you do have to continue, then continue with the 3rd and 4th quarter tablets for dosing days seven and eight and then days nine and ten. Please note that you should dissolve and mix these 1/4 tablets as needed as storing leftovers in distilled or bottled water in the refrigerator for 24 hours may affect the potency but I do not know of another simple way to do this. It's going to be hard enough to split the pill into four parts although some pills are pre-scored for halves or even quarters sometimes. Lets see what Ray says also but since you have these tablets already, you might as well get started with them to see if they start to have some effect until you can find a better medication. Please note that tomorrow, now that I have a lot more information from you, I will be re-addressing your first post with some of my thoughts about what might be causing some of your health issues so that you can start coming up with a plan to fix the causes rather than being stuck with treating the outcome of your current and likely-to-come health issues. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of greyclouds99 Sent: Saturday, December 05, 2009 2:05 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] RAY- Re: Newbie, and Angelfish question Gosh! Man,all these new infos and readings make me wanna flush that Angelfish straight to Fish heaven!! ....... KIDDING! I didn't bear all the trouble of setting a 15g tank to eventually flush the poor thing. "bobblrs"? Did I say that? my 1yo daughter must have transmigrated to my tongue for a second when I typed that! I meant "bubbles", but anyway the "bobblrs" are gone now, except for a tiny one at the end of the tail fin. She -the Angelfish- seems to be doing good in her new aquarium, still didn't feed her anything since this morning, neither treated the water, I don't know if I should feed her as normal or less? There's no nearby fish store here, nothing closer than a 35 mile circle, so I'm on my own right now, unless I used "human medications", is it possible? The suchet I have says: Monocycline 150mg (as Hydrochloride)-not 50 mg as I mentioned earlier. I have 8 of these tablets, they're supposed to melt in the water as I was told, or you can crush them and put them in. So, Ray, I'm waiting for your advise. I may have a trip to the city tomorrow, so I can see what medications they got, but they don't have Kanamycine that's for sure (just called a friend asking about it). Do you think that salt can be used-helpful besides the medication? Thanks for the valuable advices Tristan --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@...> wrote: > > If the water from the water company is treated with chlorine, there's > a chance that 16 hours might be long enough for most of the chlorine > to outgas and the water might have been OK, although it's better to > let it out gas for > 24-48 hours at room temp. At the lower outside temperature, 16 hours > probably isn't long enough and it might take a week at lower temps. > If they use chloramine, that takes 7-14 days to break down and outgas > without the use of a dechlor product at room temperature, longer at cooler/colder temps. > > > Yes, the water temperature could also be a cause of bacteria die off, > especially if the water temp was down to 60F. > > All that said, I doubt any of your initial nitrifying bacteria survived. > > After you move the fish to the Q-tank, lift your sponge and squeeze > some dirty juice into a bowl and then pour that into the Q-tank's filter system. > That will transfer enough to at least give things a good jump start. > Nitrifying bacteria are able to double their colony size every 24-48 > hours so as long as you get a decent amount of N-bacteria into the > Q-tank's filter, they will start growing their colony and probably > keep up with the single angelfish's waste. Still test your water for > ammonia every day to make sure it's not rising since you have a moderately high pH level. > Ammonia becomes far more toxic at higher pH levels. You could always > add more sponge juice to the Q-tank, if you see the ammonia levels > rising above 0.25ppm. > > What do you mean by "bobblrs" on it's fin and body? > > I do not know the dosage of your medication. Hopefully, Ray will > reply with details. My forte with fishkeeping is in keeping them from > getting sick in the first place so I have only limited personal > experience with using medications. I didn't address this issue with > you in your first post but was planning on doing so once we get your Angelfish under treatment. > > While your tablets may be 50mg, there are different potency levels > with many medications, sometimes a 50mg tablet might have 10% > medication and 90% inert ingredients so without knowing more about the > tablet, it's even hard for me to look up more info. If the pill has a > medical number on it, that would probably help a lot.. or contact > whoever gave you the tablets and ask them for more info. Hopefully, a > few tablets will be enough but I'm not sure if it will be. (BUT READ > ON AS A NEW PROBLEM ARISES BELOW) > > I did find this from a link from that reference I listed in a previous > reply. Scroll down about 1/4th on this page and there's a large > section about Minocycline/Maracyn 2. > http://www.americanaquariumproducts.com/AquariumMedication2.html > > Now, a new problem arises. > > Since you have pretty hard water, Minocycline is not as effective as > the calcium in the water will absorb the medication and that RED > section of the part of the article recommends using Kanamycin for hard > water conditions. I learn something new every day! > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles > referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically > under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] > On Behalf Of greyclouds99 > Sent: Friday, December 04, 2009 4:08 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Newbie, and Angelfish question > > Hi Ray and Lenny, > Today I discarded 10 gallons off the H-tank and replaced them with > water from my main 34g tank, then I acclimated the sick Angelfish and > have just put him in now. > Numbers: > Temp. 79 > Nitrite 0 > Nitrates 10 > GH 14 > KH 10 > pH 7.6 > > The water I used yesterday to fill the Q-tank wasn't coming directly > from our water company, it first sets in the house's water supply > tank, because we don't have the water coming 24/7 here. The water has > been setting there for almost 16 hours before I used it to fill the > tank, do you still think that I have no live bacteria left in my filter? > However, I stupidly added the filter BEFORE waiting the temperature to > rise, so -after thinking through it today- maybe the N-bacteria died > of heat shock > (78 --> 60) in an instant :( > > I moved a rock from the main tank to have some N-bacteria in the > H-tank. But can't move any filter media, because it's a single sponge. > I can however take the remaining filter media from my Crown Betta's > tank (4gallons)if this champ can live without it. He's a tough guy BTW. > > I'm just looking at the Angelfish now, and seeing some bobblrs on its > body and fins, doesn't look like a good sign. > > I looked at it from above and saw that the infected eye is slightly > popping out. So I don't know if it's a pop-eye or not, it's more > bloody than yesterday. > I have both salt and something similar to Maracyn II available > (Minocycline 50mg/tablet), but don't know how to use it, I have a few > tablets given to me a couple of weeks ago without treating > indications. (There were no sick fish in my tank back then) > > Another thing, I planted a big fake plant. The Angelfish is moving > normally and looks as calm as usual while exploring the new home, > doesn't look stressed to me. > I'm waiting for your urgent help concerning dosing the medication and > what to do about the bubbles. > > Tristan > > ------------------------------------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the home page. Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com to receive the digest, which includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com for the No E-Mail option where you will still be able to read messages on the group and post replies. Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com to receive individual e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 44903	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 12/5/2009
Subject: Re: RAY- Re: Newbie, and Angelfish question

Lenny, If it is marked as being 150 mg of Minocycline, then that is the dosage. There is no need to look it up otherwise. The rest of the tablet would be an inert or non-reactive filler. \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Lenny V. aka GoldLenny Sent: Saturday, December 05, 2009 6:03 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] RAY- Re: Newbie, and Angelfish question This page from DrsFosterSmith.com has dosing information for Mardel's Maracyn 2, under the "More Information" tab. DFS is generally a reliable source of details and these instructions look accurate from the last time I used this medication which was several years ago. http://www.drsfostersmith.com/Product/Prod_Display.cfm?pcatid=4842 Maracyn-Two Powder Freshwater Active Ingredient Each powder packet contains 10 mg Minocycline activity. NOTE: Be sure to treat for the full duration recommended, even if symptoms disappear after a few days. DO NOT overdose. Follow dosage directions as detailed on the product packaging. Dosing Instructions First day, add 2 packets per 10 gallons of water. On the second through fifth day, add 1 packet per 10 gallons of water. Repeat this 5 day treatment only once if needed. (READ THE REST OF THE TABBED INFORMATION FOR MORE DETAILS AND THE FACT THAT THERE IS A SEPARATE MARACYN-2 PRODUCT FOR SALTWATER TANKS WITH DIFFERENT INGREDIENTS, PROBABLY DUE TO THE HARD WATER EFFECT ON MINOCYCLINE) IF... AND THAT'S A BIG IF... your tablets are pure Minocycline, then your 150mg tablets are WAY TOO MUCH to use at one time in a 15G tank. I wish we knew for certain if they were pure or not. Are there any numbers on the pills? Most pills/capsules have some kind of number on them and then we could look that up to know if they are pure or if they have inert ingredients as part of the pill. For the below info, I'm presuming they are pure but if they are only 10% active ingredients, then the below calculations would be WAY OFF. The above instructions from DFS says to use 20mg of Minocycline per 10G of water for the initial dose and then only 10mg per 10G per day on the 2nd through 5th day. It also says DO NOT OVERDOSE so that adds an important twist to things. This would calculate to 30mg per 15G on the first day and 15mg each subsequent day. - ACTUAL DIRECTIONS FOR DOSING YOUR TANK BASED ON ALL OF THE ABOVE - If you can accurately split your tablets into four parts, each part would have around 37.5mg of Minocycline. If you dissolve and mix that first 37.5mg portion in 3 oz. of distilled water (or possibly bottled water that is not as hard as your tank water), you could then add 2 oz. of that water to your 15G tank for the first day and then the remaining 1 oz. on the next day (NOTE - I WOULD REFRIGERATE THIS LEFT OVER 1 OZ. UNTIL NEEDED THE NEXT DAY) This would be slightly under dosing but pretty close to the actual dose. That first 1/4 tablet would treat day one and two. Then, on day three, dissolve and mix another 1/4 tablet in 2 oz. of water and add 1 oz. of this water on day three and then the remaining refrigerated 1 oz. on day four. These would be slight overdoses (adding 18.75mg instead of 15mg, which isn't much). Do the same for days five and you might as well treat a sixth day since you will have 1 oz. of medicated water. The official directions from Mardel says you can repeat their medication program for five more days, if needed, so this sixth day would technically be the first day of the second five day treatment, if needed. If you do have to continue, then continue with the 3rd and 4th quarter tablets for dosing days seven and eight and then days nine and ten. Please note that you should dissolve and mix these 1/4 tablets as needed as storing leftovers in distilled or bottled water in the refrigerator for 24 hours may affect the potency but I do not know of another simple way to do this. It's going to be hard enough to split the pill into four parts although some pills are pre-scored for halves or even quarters sometimes. Lets see what Ray says also but since you have these tablets already, you might as well get started with them to see if they start to have some effect until you can find a better medication. Please note that tomorrow, now that I have a lot more information from you, I will be re-addressing your first post with some of my thoughts about what might be causing some of your health issues so that you can start coming up with a plan to fix the causes rather than being stuck with treating the outcome of your current and likely-to-come health issues. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of greyclouds99 Sent: Saturday, December 05, 2009 2:05 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] RAY- Re: Newbie, and Angelfish question Gosh! Man,all these new infos and readings make me wanna flush that Angelfish straight to Fish heaven!! ....... KIDDING! I didn't bear all the trouble of setting a 15g tank to eventually flush the poor thing. "bobblrs"? Did I say that? my 1yo daughter must have transmigrated to my tongue for a second when I typed that! I meant "bubbles", but anyway the "bobblrs" are gone now, except for a tiny one at the end of the tail fin. She -the Angelfish- seems to be doing good in her new aquarium, still didn't feed her anything since this morning, neither treated the water, I don't know if I should feed her as normal or less? There's no nearby fish store here, nothing closer than a 35 mile circle, so I'm on my own right now, unless I used "human medications", is it possible? The suchet I have says: Monocycline 150mg (as Hydrochloride)-not 50 mg as I mentioned earlier. I have 8 of these tablets, they're supposed to melt in the water as I was told, or you can crush them and put them in. So, Ray, I'm waiting for your advise. I may have a trip to the city tomorrow, so I can see what medications they got, but they don't have Kanamycine that's for sure (just called a friend asking about it). Do you think that salt can be used-helpful besides the medication? Thanks for the valuable advices Tristan --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@...> wrote: > > If the water from the water company is treated with chlorine, there's > a chance that 16 hours might be long enough for most of the chlorine > to outgas and the water might have been OK, although it's better to > let it out gas for > 24-48 hours at room temp. At the lower outside temperature, 16 hours > probably isn't long enough and it might take a week at lower temps. > If they use chloramine, that takes 7-14 days to break down and outgas > without the use of a dechlor product at room temperature, longer at cooler/colder temps. > > > Yes, the water temperature could also be a cause of bacteria die off, > especially if the water temp was down to 60F. > > All that said, I doubt any of your initial nitrifying bacteria survived. > > After you move the fish to the Q-tank, lift your sponge and squeeze > some dirty juice into a bowl and then pour that into the Q-tank's filter system. > That will transfer enough to at least give things a good jump start. > Nitrifying bacteria are able to double their colony size every 24-48 > hours so as long as you get a decent amount of N-bacteria into the > Q-tank's filter, they will start growing their colony and probably > keep up with the single angelfish's waste. Still test your water for > ammonia every day to make sure it's not rising since you have a moderately high pH level. > Ammonia becomes far more toxic at higher pH levels. You could always > add more sponge juice to the Q-tank, if you see the ammonia levels > rising above 0.25ppm. > > What do you mean by "bobblrs" on it's fin and body? > > I do not know the dosage of your medication. Hopefully, Ray will > reply with details. My forte with fishkeeping is in keeping them from > getting sick in the first place so I have only limited personal > experience with using medications. I didn't address this issue with > you in your first post but was planning on doing so once we get your Angelfish under treatment. > > While your tablets may be 50mg, there are different potency levels > with many medications, sometimes a 50mg tablet might have 10% > medication and 90% inert ingredients so without knowing more about the > tablet, it's even hard for me to look up more info. If the pill has a > medical number on it, that would probably help a lot.. or contact > whoever gave you the tablets and ask them for more info. Hopefully, a > few tablets will be enough but I'm not sure if it will be. (BUT READ > ON AS A NEW PROBLEM ARISES BELOW) > > I did find this from a link from that reference I listed in a previous > reply. Scroll down about 1/4th on this page and there's a large > section about Minocycline/Maracyn 2. > http://www.americanaquariumproducts.com/AquariumMedication2.html > > Now, a new problem arises. > > Since you have pretty hard water, Minocycline is not as effective as > the calcium in the water will absorb the medication and that RED > section of the part of the article recommends using Kanamycin for hard > water conditions. I learn something new every day! > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles > referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically > under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] > On Behalf Of greyclouds99 > Sent: Friday, December 04, 2009 4:08 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Newbie, and Angelfish question > > Hi Ray and Lenny, > Today I discarded 10 gallons off the H-tank and replaced them with > water from my main 34g tank, then I acclimated the sick Angelfish and > have just put him in now. > Numbers: > Temp. 79 > Nitrite 0 > Nitrates 10 > GH 14 > KH 10 > pH 7.6 > > The water I used yesterday to fill the Q-tank wasn't coming directly > from our water company, it first sets in the house's water supply > tank, because we don't have the water coming 24/7 here. The water has > been setting there for almost 16 hours before I used it to fill the > tank, do you still think that I have no live bacteria left in my filter? > However, I stupidly added the filter BEFORE waiting the temperature to > rise, so -after thinking through it today- maybe the N-bacteria died > of heat shock > (78 --> 60) in an instant :( > > I moved a rock from the main tank to have some N-bacteria in the > H-tank. But can't move any filter media, because it's a single sponge. > I can however take the remaining filter media from my Crown Betta's > tank (4gallons)if this champ can live without it. He's a tough guy BTW. > > I'm just looking at the Angelfish now, and seeing some bobblrs on its > body and fins, doesn't look like a good sign. > > I looked at it from above and saw that the infected eye is slightly > popping out. So I don't know if it's a pop-eye or not, it's more > bloody than yesterday. > I have both salt and something similar to Maracyn II available > (Minocycline 50mg/tablet), but don't know how to use it, I have a few > tablets given to me a couple of weeks ago without treating > indications. (There were no sick fish in my tank back then) > > Another thing, I planted a big fake plant. The Angelfish is moving > normally and looks as calm as usual while exploring the new home, > doesn't look stressed to me. > I'm waiting for your urgent help concerning dosing the medication and > what to do about the bubbles. > > Tristan > > ------------------------------------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the home page. Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com to receive the digest, which includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com for the No E-Mail option where you will still be able to read messages on the group and post replies. Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com to receive individual e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links ------------------------------------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the home page. Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com to receive the digest, which includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com for the No E-Mail option where you will still be able to read messages on the group and post replies. Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com to receive individual e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 44904	From: sevenspringss@wmconnect.com	Date: 12/5/2009
Subject: Re: Another Question ( Newbie, and Angelfish question)

Tristan, Isn't it said that the only "stupid question" is one that is never asked -- or something like that? As this question has at least occurred to you, this in itself shows that you are far from being stupid, and with this, you should never be afraid of asking a question no matter how trivial it may seem as that's the only way you might get an answer. We're here to help if we can, even though we may not know all the answers ourselves if and when they get beyond our expertise. Don't put yourself down; you've already shown to me that you know a lot about fishkeeping, even though you may be a relative beginner. You bring up a very good question, and one that we always keep in mind as being part and parcel with any of the medication recommendations we offer -- keeping in mind that we don't want to interfere with your cycle if it can at all be avoided. There are a good number of antibiotics which are not "discriminate" and which will kill off your nitrifying bacteria as well as the pathogen invading your fish. Not all antibiotics work the same way (they don't all just kill off the bacteria). Some may act to break down the cell walls, while others may act to prevent new cell walls from being formed. Many others work to prevent the further reproduction of the bacteria they are designed to combat. There are aquatic antibiotics which, either be design or by circumstance, will not harm nitrifying bacteria as the way they work on the specific types of pathogens they are designed for will not interfere with the life-cycle of the specific autotrophic aerobic bacteria we call "nitrifiers," i.e., the various Nitrosomas and Nitrospira that oxidize/break-down (consume) ammonia and the Nitrobacters and Nitrospina that likewise oxidize nitrite. The extremely beneficial antibiotic, Minocycline (a derivitive of Tetracycline) is ONE of these -- and its property of not harming our nitrifiers is well appreciated. It will be noted however that, curiously enough, Tetracycline itself WILL interfere with the nitrogen cycle in affecting these bacteria in addition to the pathogens they are used against. Ray [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 44905	From: greyclouds99	Date: 12/5/2009
Subject: Another Question ( Newbie, and Angelfish question)

Well Ray, I've been doing my "homework" since I started this hobby not long ago, and these last two days also taught me a lot with all the additional homework that Lenny kindly assigned for me. Please read my previous email about the Minocycline. Tristan --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, sevenspringss@... wrote: > > Tristan, Isn't it said that the only "stupid question" is one that is > never asked -- or something like that? As this question has at least occurred > to you, this in itself shows that you are far from being stupid, and with > this, you should never be afraid of asking a question no matter how trivial it > may seem as that's the only way you might get an answer. We're here to help > if we can, even though we may not know all the answers ourselves if and > when they get beyond our expertise. Don't put yourself down; you've already > shown to me that you know a lot about fishkeeping, even though you may be a > relative beginner. > > You bring up a very good question, and one that we always keep in mind as > being part and parcel with any of the medication recommendations we offer -- > keeping in mind that we don't want to interfere with your cycle if it can at > all be avoided. There are a good number of antibiotics which are not > "discriminate" and which will kill off your nitrifying bacteria as well as the > pathogen invading your fish. Not all antibiotics work the same way (they > don't all just kill off the bacteria). Some may act to break down the cell > walls, while others may act to prevent new cell walls from being formed. Many > others work to prevent the further reproduction of the bacteria they are > designed to combat. There are aquatic antibiotics which, either be design or by > circumstance, will not harm nitrifying bacteria as the way they work on the > specific types of pathogens they are designed for will not interfere with > the life-cycle of the specific autotrophic aerobic bacteria we call > "nitrifiers," i.e., the various Nitrosomas and Nitrospira that oxidize/break-down > (consume) ammonia and the Nitrobacters and Nitrospina that likewise oxidize > nitrite. The extremely beneficial antibiotic, Minocycline (a derivitive of > Tetracycline) is ONE of these -- and its property of not harming our nitrifiers > is well appreciated. It will be noted however that, curiously enough, > Tetracycline itself WILL interfere with the nitrogen cycle in affecting these > bacteria in addition to the pathogens they are used against. Ray > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 44906	From: sevenspringss@wmconnect.com	Date: 12/5/2009
Subject: Re: Another Question ( Newbie, and Angelfish question)

Hi Tristan, I approved your newest message for posting as soon as I saw it, as I wanted you to know I saw your (and Lenny's) previous messages and was working on them. Will be replying to you posts ASAP, and regret I wasn't able to do so any sooner; My internet provider told me (after I contacted them yesterday) that they would be calling me at some time yesterday uop until 10 PM, after the 4 PM initial time I told them to contact me so I had to leave the phone line clear (and I have dial-up). Well, they never called, so I'll have to contact them this morning, but let's move on to your posts. I figured you were doing your "homework" on aquatics, as it just looked that way to me in the little dialog you've given so far. A more knowledgable person just comes across that way in their appearance. As some answers may get more involved, I hope we don't get too "deep" for you or give you much more than what you were asking for. As for myself, you'll notice that I prefer offering as much as I can (within reason) in efforts to give you a more complete picture. You can then use of it what you want, although all of it will pertain to your question. These types of answers may also go on to help other members here, if not now, than maybe sometime in the future -- and that's also part of my purpose even if secondary. You'll find that Lenny also gives a lot to digest, sometimes causing you to do more "homework" as you stated, but if anything is not quite clear, and you are still interested in what has been said, don't hestitate to ask if you need clarification. Ray [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 44907	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 12/5/2009
Subject: Re: RAY- Re: Newbie, and Angelfish question

I know in the normal world, this is how things should work. I always worry about meds where I do not (nor does Tristan) have access to the packaging. I think Tristan said these were given to him/her (now that I think about it, I'm not sure if Tristan said he was she or she was a he... lol I think Tristan might be one of them names that can go either way... so I did a Google and found that to be correct although it seems most Tristan's were men but then Tristan PrettyMan is a women, so go figure.. lol) I checked Tristan's greyclouds99 Yahoo Profile but it did not indicate male or female either. I think we may have a case of SNL's Pat on our hands here. ;-) Anyhow... back to the topic. I do believe you are correct when dealing with tablets. I think it's liquid meds where the likelihood of inert or non-medicinal ingredients comes much more into play. If so, then my calculations should be good. BTW... did you look over my calculations to see if any discrepancies popped out? Lenny Vasbinder (MAN... lol) Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Steve Szabo Sent: Saturday, December 05, 2009 6:16 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] RAY- Re: Newbie, and Angelfish question Lenny, If it is marked as being 150 mg of Minocycline, then that is the dosage. There is no need to look it up otherwise. The rest of the tablet would be an inert or non-reactive filler. \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Lenny V. aka GoldLenny Sent: Saturday, December 05, 2009 6:03 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] RAY- Re: Newbie, and Angelfish question This page from DrsFosterSmith.com has dosing information for Mardel's Maracyn 2, under the "More Information" tab. DFS is generally a reliable source of details and these instructions look accurate from the last time I used this medication which was several years ago. http://www.drsfostersmith.com/Product/Prod_Display.cfm?pcatid=4842 Maracyn-Two Powder Freshwater Active Ingredient Each powder packet contains 10 mg Minocycline activity. NOTE: Be sure to treat for the full duration recommended, even if symptoms disappear after a few days. DO NOT overdose. Follow dosage directions as detailed on the product packaging. Dosing Instructions First day, add 2 packets per 10 gallons of water. On the second through fifth day, add 1 packet per 10 gallons of water. Repeat this 5 day treatment only once if needed. (READ THE REST OF THE TABBED INFORMATION FOR MORE DETAILS AND THE FACT THAT THERE IS A SEPARATE MARACYN-2 PRODUCT FOR SALTWATER TANKS WITH DIFFERENT INGREDIENTS, PROBABLY DUE TO THE HARD WATER EFFECT ON MINOCYCLINE) IF... AND THAT'S A BIG IF... your tablets are pure Minocycline, then your 150mg tablets are WAY TOO MUCH to use at one time in a 15G tank. I wish we knew for certain if they were pure or not. Are there any numbers on the pills? Most pills/capsules have some kind of number on them and then we could look that up to know if they are pure or if they have inert ingredients as part of the pill. For the below info, I'm presuming they are pure but if they are only 10% active ingredients, then the below calculations would be WAY OFF. The above instructions from DFS says to use 20mg of Minocycline per 10G of water for the initial dose and then only 10mg per 10G per day on the 2nd through 5th day. It also says DO NOT OVERDOSE so that adds an important twist to things. This would calculate to 30mg per 15G on the first day and 15mg each subsequent day. - ACTUAL DIRECTIONS FOR DOSING YOUR TANK BASED ON ALL OF THE ABOVE - If you can accurately split your tablets into four parts, each part would have around 37.5mg of Minocycline. If you dissolve and mix that first 37.5mg portion in 3 oz. of distilled water (or possibly bottled water that is not as hard as your tank water), you could then add 2 oz. of that water to your 15G tank for the first day and then the remaining 1 oz. on the next day (NOTE - I WOULD REFRIGERATE THIS LEFT OVER 1 OZ. UNTIL NEEDED THE NEXT DAY) This would be slightly under dosing but pretty close to the actual dose. That first 1/4 tablet would treat day one and two. Then, on day three, dissolve and mix another 1/4 tablet in 2 oz. of water and add 1 oz. of this water on day three and then the remaining refrigerated 1 oz. on day four. These would be slight overdoses (adding 18.75mg instead of 15mg, which isn't much). Do the same for days five and you might as well treat a sixth day since you will have 1 oz. of medicated water. The official directions from Mardel says you can repeat their medication program for five more days, if needed, so this sixth day would technically be the first day of the second five day treatment, if needed. If you do have to continue, then continue with the 3rd and 4th quarter tablets for dosing days seven and eight and then days nine and ten. Please note that you should dissolve and mix these 1/4 tablets as needed as storing leftovers in distilled or bottled water in the refrigerator for 24 hours may affect the potency but I do not know of another simple way to do this. It's going to be hard enough to split the pill into four parts although some pills are pre-scored for halves or even quarters sometimes. Lets see what Ray says also but since you have these tablets already, you might as well get started with them to see if they start to have some effect until you can find a better medication. Please note that tomorrow, now that I have a lot more information from you, I will be re-addressing your first post with some of my thoughts about what might be causing some of your health issues so that you can start coming up with a plan to fix the causes rather than being stuck with treating the outcome of your current and likely-to-come health issues. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of greyclouds99 Sent: Saturday, December 05, 2009 2:05 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] RAY- Re: Newbie, and Angelfish question Gosh! Man,all these new infos and readings make me wanna flush that Angelfish straight to Fish heaven!! ....... KIDDING! I didn't bear all the trouble of setting a 15g tank to eventually flush the poor thing. "bobblrs"? Did I say that? my 1yo daughter must have transmigrated to my tongue for a second when I typed that! I meant "bubbles", but anyway the "bobblrs" are gone now, except for a tiny one at the end of the tail fin. She -the Angelfish- seems to be doing good in her new aquarium, still didn't feed her anything since this morning, neither treated the water, I don't know if I should feed her as normal or less? There's no nearby fish store here, nothing closer than a 35 mile circle, so I'm on my own right now, unless I used "human medications", is it possible? The suchet I have says: Monocycline 150mg (as Hydrochloride)-not 50 mg as I mentioned earlier. I have 8 of these tablets, they're supposed to melt in the water as I was told, or you can crush them and put them in. So, Ray, I'm waiting for your advise. I may have a trip to the city tomorrow, so I can see what medications they got, but they don't have Kanamycine that's for sure (just called a friend asking about it). Do you think that salt can be used-helpful besides the medication? Thanks for the valuable advices Tristan --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@...> wrote: > > If the water from the water company is treated with chlorine, there's > a chance that 16 hours might be long enough for most of the chlorine > to outgas and the water might have been OK, although it's better to > let it out gas for > 24-48 hours at room temp. At the lower outside temperature, 16 hours > probably isn't long enough and it might take a week at lower temps. > If they use chloramine, that takes 7-14 days to break down and outgas > without the use of a dechlor product at room temperature, longer at cooler/colder temps. > > > Yes, the water temperature could also be a cause of bacteria die off, > especially if the water temp was down to 60F. > > All that said, I doubt any of your initial nitrifying bacteria survived. > > After you move the fish to the Q-tank, lift your sponge and squeeze > some dirty juice into a bowl and then pour that into the Q-tank's filter system. > That will transfer enough to at least give things a good jump start. > Nitrifying bacteria are able to double their colony size every 24-48 > hours so as long as you get a decent amount of N-bacteria into the > Q-tank's filter, they will start growing their colony and probably > keep up with the single angelfish's waste. Still test your water for > ammonia every day to make sure it's not rising since you have a moderately high pH level. > Ammonia becomes far more toxic at higher pH levels. You could always > add more sponge juice to the Q-tank, if you see the ammonia levels > rising above 0.25ppm. > > What do you mean by "bobblrs" on it's fin and body? > > I do not know the dosage of your medication. Hopefully, Ray will > reply with details. My forte with fishkeeping is in keeping them from > getting sick in the first place so I have only limited personal > experience with using medications. I didn't address this issue with > you in your first post but was planning on doing so once we get your Angelfish under treatment. > > While your tablets may be 50mg, there are different potency levels > with many medications, sometimes a 50mg tablet might have 10% > medication and 90% inert ingredients so without knowing more about the > tablet, it's even hard for me to look up more info. If the pill has a > medical number on it, that would probably help a lot.. or contact > whoever gave you the tablets and ask them for more info. Hopefully, a > few tablets will be enough but I'm not sure if it will be. (BUT READ > ON AS A NEW PROBLEM ARISES BELOW) > > I did find this from a link from that reference I listed in a previous > reply. Scroll down about 1/4th on this page and there's a large > section about Minocycline/Maracyn 2. > http://www.americanaquariumproducts.com/AquariumMedication2.html > > Now, a new problem arises. > > Since you have pretty hard water, Minocycline is not as effective as > the calcium in the water will absorb the medication and that RED > section of the part of the article recommends using Kanamycin for hard > water conditions. I learn something new every day! > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles > referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically > under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] > On Behalf Of greyclouds99 > Sent: Friday, December 04, 2009 4:08 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Newbie, and Angelfish question > > Hi Ray and Lenny, > Today I discarded 10 gallons off the H-tank and replaced them with > water from my main 34g tank, then I acclimated the sick Angelfish and > have just put him in now. > Numbers: > Temp. 79 > Nitrite 0 > Nitrates 10 > GH 14 > KH 10 > pH 7.6 > > The water I used yesterday to fill the Q-tank wasn't coming directly > from our water company, it first sets in the house's water supply > tank, because we don't have the water coming 24/7 here. The water has > been setting there for almost 16 hours before I used it to fill the > tank, do you still think that I have no live bacteria left in my filter? > However, I stupidly added the filter BEFORE waiting the temperature to > rise, so -after thinking through it today- maybe the N-bacteria died > of heat shock > (78 --> 60) in an instant :( > > I moved a rock from the main tank to have some N-bacteria in the > H-tank. But can't move any filter media, because it's a single sponge. > I can however take the remaining filter media from my Crown Betta's > tank (4gallons)if this champ can live without it. He's a tough guy BTW. > > I'm just looking at the Angelfish now, and seeing some bobblrs on its > body and fins, doesn't look like a good sign. > > I looked at it from above and saw that the infected eye is slightly > popping out. So I don't know if it's a pop-eye or not, it's more > bloody than yesterday. > I have both salt and something similar to Maracyn II available > (Minocycline 50mg/tablet), but don't know how to use it, I have a few > tablets given to me a couple of weeks ago without treating > indications. (There were no sick fish in my tank back then) > > Another thing, I planted a big fake plant. The Angelfish is moving > normally and looks as calm as usual while exploring the new home, > doesn't look stressed to me. > I'm waiting for your urgent help concerning dosing the medication and > what to do about the bubbles. > > Tristan

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 44908	From: sevenspringss@wmconnect.com	Date: 12/5/2009
Subject: Re: Newbie, and Angelfish question

Tristan, Thanks for the parameters; while I may not need them immediately, they are ALWAYS good for an advisor to know. Sometimes, even the medications to be recommended, may depend on the pH alone, and knowing how well the water is being maintained (by other readings) will show if PWC's are first needed or lack of them may have been the direct cause of the malady. Most apparent though, is your lack of an ammonia reading -- which might indicate any residual chloramines in the new water you have questions about. Not knowing if you have chlorine or chloramine in you water supply, I can't say if this water would be safe for your nitrifying bacteria after being held for 16 hours in your water system's holding tank. I would think, that probably still being under pressure and having no exposure to the air, that any chlorine would still remain in your water until it's released from the faucet when it will only then gradually dissipate over the next 24 to 48 hours (dependent upon ambient temperature). Chloramine will remain in the water for 3 to 4 weeks, as aerobic Heterotrophic bacteria continue to work on it. A good water conditioner would have "neutralized" this however, and I trust that you do use this(?). As such, there shouldn't be much for concern, unless you don't use these products. As far as temperature shock, most bacteria are more resiliant to such change, although you may have weaked it. I doubt very much that you would have killed it off completely. No need to move the remaining filter media, moving the rock was somewhat helpful, even if not necessary. All substrate surfaces will have some N-bacteria on them, but will not be highly colonized; this piece's addition will at least ensure the introduction of yet another population whether its needed or not. As your Angelfish was moved into this tank, and is still alive, it does not appear that there are any dangerous Chlorine or Chloramines in this water. These bubbles would seem to be due to outgasing of CO2 which, while not harmful on the fish's body and fins, can be dangerous to its gill filaments. As you've moved the fish into this water only after cutting it by 2/3 will your aquarium water, this really shouldn't be of too much concern. Getting back to this fish and its diseased yey, the fact that it is now (or possibly even was?) popped out would seem to indicate the "Pop-Eye" condition/disease that I previously mentioned, which sheds a different light on a treatment. If (unless you hadn't noticed) this eye did not show this manifestation as this problem first started, there may be two different things going on with this eye now, as I've never seen Pop-Eye as you first described it -- with having a red spot in the center of the eye and something oozing out of one side. I would still use the mainly Gram-Negative Minocycline medication that was discussed (and I'll address your's and Lenny's addition to this, forthcoming) even though this will not as effectively treat for Pop-Eye condition; nte, it's still a broad-spectrum antibiotic and is still effective for a number of Gram-Positive pathogens (besides which, it's readily absorbable). For all we know, and it's distinctly possible, this may have been Pop-Eye right from the beginning. While it's not usually recommended that medications be mixed, unless it's know to be safe in doing so, fortunately Minocycline may be safely mixed with the following medication, but I wouldn't administer it unless it becomes necessary to do so, As Pop-Eye is caused either by a virus, or most often by the Gram-Positive bacteria, Aeromonas and/or Pseudomonas, as you can see treating for this condition will unfortunately see the wipeout of your nitrifying bacteria -- but any danger from nitrogenous wastes build-ups can be negated later via PWC's and will not be an immediate threat. As you might expect, Pop-Eye could be treated with a Gram-Positive antibiotic, but none are near as readily absorbable as some of those broad-spectrum (albeit, mostly Gram-Negative) medications previously described. The medication of choice would be Erythromycin (as in plain Maracyn -- not Maracyn II), out of any other Gram-Positive treating anitibiotics, if it's seen to be needed -- but only as a last resort, as (1) it will kill off your nitrifying bacteria and (2) it is not as readily absorbable internally rendering it more effective for external issues. The bubbles should dissipate in short time; while proding the fish into some faster movements would see the bubbles dislodging, this would also create some stress. I'll move on to your next post. Ray [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 44909	From: greyclouds99	Date: 12/5/2009
Subject: Re: Newbie, and Angelfish question

Hi everyone, I looked closely at the tablet (after opening it), it doesn't have any numbers, so we're assuming -as Steve mentioned- that it does the effect of 150 mg Minocycline. It's a big tablet, more like a 1g whole, so I'm pretty sure that it is 150mg of effective ingredient PLUS other fillings. It was well crossed to be split. I'm thinking, if I need 10mg/10gallons = 15mg/15gallons which means 1/10 of a tablet, then I can split a tablet in half(5/10of the whole tablet), dissolve it in a measuring glass tube containing 100 ml of distilled water (the water I would use to prepare my daughter's antibiotic syrup), and then I take 40ml of that solution to be used on the first day, and then 20 ml for the days 2-5. I can simply discard and prepare a new solution every other day, the 8 tablets I have would be more than enough for a double-treatment. What worries me now is the hardness of my water, wouldn't it lessen the effectiveness of the dose? Should I put more than 15mg/15gallons to avoid an under-dosing? If yes: HOW MUCH MORE? Tristan --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@...> wrote: > > This page from DrsFosterSmith.com has dosing information for Mardel's > Maracyn 2, under the "More Information" tab. DFS is generally a reliable > source of details and these instructions look accurate from the last time I > used this medication which was several years ago. > > http://www.drsfostersmith.com/Product/Prod_Display.cfm?pcatid=4842 > > Maracyn-Two Powder Freshwater > Active Ingredient > Each powder packet contains 10 mg Minocycline activity. > > NOTE: Be sure to treat for the full duration recommended, even if symptoms > disappear after a few days. DO NOT overdose. Follow dosage directions as > detailed on the product packaging. > > Dosing Instructions > First day, add 2 packets per 10 gallons of water. On the second through > fifth day, add 1 packet per 10 gallons of water. > > Repeat this 5 day treatment only once if needed. > > (READ THE REST OF THE TABBED INFORMATION FOR MORE DETAILS AND THE FACT THAT > THERE IS A SEPARATE MARACYN-2 PRODUCT FOR SALTWATER TANKS WITH DIFFERENT > INGREDIENTS, PROBABLY DUE TO THE HARD WATER EFFECT ON MINOCYCLINE) > > IF... AND THAT'S A BIG IF... your tablets are pure Minocycline, then your > 150mg tablets are WAY TOO MUCH to use at one time in a 15G tank. I wish we > knew for certain if they were pure or not. Are there any numbers on the > pills? Most pills/capsules have some kind of number on them and then we > could look that up to know if they are pure or if they have inert > ingredients as part of the pill. > > For the below info, I'm presuming they are pure but if they are only 10% > active ingredients, then the below calculations would be WAY OFF. > > The above instructions from DFS says to use 20mg of Minocycline per 10G of > water for the initial dose and then only 10mg per 10G per day on the 2nd > through 5th day. It also says DO NOT OVERDOSE so that adds an important > twist to things. This would calculate to 30mg per 15G on the first day and > 15mg each subsequent day. > > - ACTUAL DIRECTIONS FOR DOSING YOUR TANK BASED ON ALL OF THE ABOVE - > > If you can accurately split your tablets into four parts, each part would > have around 37.5mg of Minocycline. If you dissolve and mix that first > 37.5mg portion in 3 oz. of distilled water (or possibly bottled water that > is not as hard as your tank water), you could then add 2 oz. of that water > to your 15G tank for the first day and then the remaining 1 oz. on the next > day (NOTE - I WOULD REFRIGERATE THIS LEFT OVER 1 OZ. UNTIL NEEDED THE NEXT > DAY) This would be slightly under dosing but pretty close to the actual > dose. That first 1/4 tablet would treat day one and two. Then, on day > three, dissolve and mix another 1/4 tablet in 2 oz. of water and add 1 oz. > of this water on day three and then the remaining refrigerated 1 oz. on day > four. These would be slight overdoses (adding 18.75mg instead of 15mg, > which isn't much). Do the same for days five and you might as well treat a > sixth day since you will have 1 oz. of medicated water. The official > directions from Mardel says you can repeat their medication program for five > more days, if needed, so this sixth day would technically be the first day > of the second five day treatment, if needed. If you do have to continue, > then continue with the 3rd and 4th quarter tablets for dosing days seven and > eight and then days nine and ten. > > Please note that you should dissolve and mix these 1/4 tablets as needed as > storing leftovers in distilled or bottled water in the refrigerator for 24 > hours may affect the potency but I do not know of another simple way to do > this. It's going to be hard enough to split the pill into four parts > although some pills are pre-scored for halves or even quarters sometimes. > > Lets see what Ray says also but since you have these tablets already, you > might as well get started with them to see if they start to have some effect > until you can find a better medication. > > Please note that tomorrow, now that I have a lot more information from you, > I will be re-addressing your first post with some of my thoughts about what > might be causing some of your health issues so that you can start coming up > with a plan to fix the causes rather than being stuck with treating the > outcome of your current and likely-to-come health issues. > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 44910	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 12/5/2009
Subject: Re: RAY- Re: Newbie, and Angelfish question

Lenny, I did a bit of Googling, and this is what I found about the tablets: Manufactured for: MEDICIS, The Dermatology CompanyR Scottsdale, AZ 85258 INGREDIENTS Name (Active Moiety) Type Strength minocycline hydrochloride (minocycline) Active 100 MILLIGRAM In 1 TABLET Colloidal Silicon Dioxide Inactive Lactose Anhydrous Inactive Magnesium Stearate Inactive Microcrystalline Cellulose Inactive Povidone Inactive Sodium Starch Glycolate Inactive Are we sure that tablets are involved? I saw nothing about 150 mg tabs. \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Lenny V. aka GoldLenny Sent: Saturday, December 05, 2009 9:54 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] RAY- Re: Newbie, and Angelfish question I know in the normal world, this is how things should work. I always worry about meds where I do not (nor does Tristan) have access to the packaging. I think Tristan said these were given to him/her (now that I think about it, I'm not sure if Tristan said he was she or she was a he... lol I think Tristan might be one of them names that can go either way... so I did a Google and found that to be correct although it seems most Tristan's were men but then Tristan PrettyMan is a women, so go figure.. lol) I checked Tristan's greyclouds99 Yahoo Profile but it did not indicate male or female either. I think we may have a case of SNL's Pat on our hands here. ;-) Anyhow... back to the topic. I do believe you are correct when dealing with tablets. I think it's liquid meds where the likelihood of inert or non-medicinal ingredients comes much more into play. If so, then my calculations should be good. BTW... did you look over my calculations to see if any discrepancies popped out? Lenny Vasbinder (MAN... lol) Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Steve Szabo Sent: Saturday, December 05, 2009 6:16 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] RAY- Re: Newbie, and Angelfish question Lenny, If it is marked as being 150 mg of Minocycline, then that is the dosage. There is no need to look it up otherwise. The rest of the tablet would be an inert or non-reactive filler. \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Lenny V. aka GoldLenny Sent: Saturday, December 05, 2009 6:03 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] RAY- Re: Newbie, and Angelfish question This page from DrsFosterSmith.com has dosing information for Mardel's Maracyn 2, under the "More Information" tab. DFS is generally a reliable source of details and these instructions look accurate from the last time I used this medication which was several years ago. http://www.drsfostersmith.com/Product/Prod_Display.cfm?pcatid=4842 Maracyn-Two Powder Freshwater Active Ingredient Each powder packet contains 10 mg Minocycline activity. NOTE: Be sure to treat for the full duration recommended, even if symptoms disappear after a few days. DO NOT overdose. Follow dosage directions as detailed on the product packaging. Dosing Instructions First day, add 2 packets per 10 gallons of water. On the second through fifth day, add 1 packet per 10 gallons of water. Repeat this 5 day treatment only once if needed. (READ THE REST OF THE TABBED INFORMATION FOR MORE DETAILS AND THE FACT THAT THERE IS A SEPARATE MARACYN-2 PRODUCT FOR SALTWATER TANKS WITH DIFFERENT INGREDIENTS, PROBABLY DUE TO THE HARD WATER EFFECT ON MINOCYCLINE) IF... AND THAT'S A BIG IF... your tablets are pure Minocycline, then your 150mg tablets are WAY TOO MUCH to use at one time in a 15G tank. I wish we knew for certain if they were pure or not. Are there any numbers on the pills? Most pills/capsules have some kind of number on them and then we could look that up to know if they are pure or if they have inert ingredients as part of the pill. For the below info, I'm presuming they are pure but if they are only 10% active ingredients, then the below calculations would be WAY OFF. The above instructions from DFS says to use 20mg of Minocycline per 10G of water for the initial dose and then only 10mg per 10G per day on the 2nd through 5th day. It also says DO NOT OVERDOSE so that adds an important twist to things. This would calculate to 30mg per 15G on the first day and 15mg each subsequent day. - ACTUAL DIRECTIONS FOR DOSING YOUR TANK BASED ON ALL OF THE ABOVE - If you can accurately split your tablets into four parts, each part would have around 37.5mg of Minocycline. If you dissolve and mix that first 37.5mg portion in 3 oz. of distilled water (or possibly bottled water that is not as hard as your tank water), you could then add 2 oz. of that water to your 15G tank for the first day and then the remaining 1 oz. on the next day (NOTE - I WOULD REFRIGERATE THIS LEFT OVER 1 OZ. UNTIL NEEDED THE NEXT DAY) This would be slightly under dosing but pretty close to the actual dose. That first 1/4 tablet would treat day one and two. Then, on day three, dissolve and mix another 1/4 tablet in 2 oz. of water and add 1 oz. of this water on day three and then the remaining refrigerated 1 oz. on day four. These would be slight overdoses (adding 18.75mg instead of 15mg, which isn't much). Do the same for days five and you might as well treat a sixth day since you will have 1 oz. of medicated water. The official directions from Mardel says you can repeat their medication program for five more days, if needed, so this sixth day would technically be the first day of the second five day treatment, if needed. If you do have to continue, then continue with the 3rd and 4th quarter tablets for dosing days seven and eight and then days nine and ten. Please note that you should dissolve and mix these 1/4 tablets as needed as storing leftovers in distilled or bottled water in the refrigerator for 24 hours may affect the potency but I do not know of another simple way to do this. It's going to be hard enough to split the pill into four parts although some pills are pre-scored for halves or even quarters sometimes. Lets see what Ray says also but since you have these tablets already, you might as well get started with them to see if they start to have some effect until you can find a better medication. Please note that tomorrow, now that I have a lot more information from you, I will be re-addressing your first post with some of my thoughts about what might be causing some of your health issues so that you can start coming up with a plan to fix the causes rather than being stuck with treating the outcome of your current and likely-to-come health issues. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of greyclouds99 Sent: Saturday, December 05, 2009 2:05 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] RAY- Re: Newbie, and Angelfish question Gosh! Man,all these new infos and readings make me wanna flush that Angelfish straight to Fish heaven!! ....... KIDDING! I didn't bear all the trouble of setting a 15g tank to eventually flush the poor thing. "bobblrs"? Did I say that? my 1yo daughter must have transmigrated to my tongue for a second when I typed that! I meant "bubbles", but anyway the "bobblrs" are gone now, except for a tiny one at the end of the tail fin. She -the Angelfish- seems to be doing good in her new aquarium, still didn't feed her anything since this morning, neither treated the water, I don't know if I should feed her as normal or less? There's no nearby fish store here, nothing closer than a 35 mile circle, so I'm on my own right now, unless I used "human medications", is it possible? The suchet I have says: Monocycline 150mg (as Hydrochloride)-not 50 mg as I mentioned earlier. I have 8 of these tablets, they're supposed to melt in the water as I was told, or you can crush them and put them in. So, Ray, I'm waiting for your advise. I may have a trip to the city tomorrow, so I can see what medications they got, but they don't have Kanamycine that's for sure (just called a friend asking about it). Do you think that salt can be used-helpful besides the medication? Thanks for the valuable advices Tristan --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@...> wrote: > > If the water from the water company is treated with chlorine, there's > a chance that 16 hours might be long enough for most of the chlorine > to outgas and the water might have been OK, although it's better to > let it out gas for > 24-48 hours at room temp. At the lower outside temperature, 16 hours > probably isn't long enough and it might take a week at lower temps. > If they use chloramine, that takes 7-14 days to break down and outgas > without the use of a dechlor product at room temperature, longer at cooler/colder temps. > > > Yes, the water temperature could also be a cause of bacteria die off, > especially if the water temp was down to 60F. > > All that said, I doubt any of your initial nitrifying bacteria survived. > > After you move the fish to the Q-tank, lift your sponge and squeeze > some dirty juice into a bowl and then pour that into the Q-tank's filter system. > That will transfer enough to at least give things a good jump start. > Nitrifying bacteria are able to double their colony size every 24-48 > hours so as long as you get a decent amount of N-bacteria into the > Q-tank's filter, they will start growing their colony and probably > keep up with the single angelfish's waste. Still test your water for > ammonia every day to make sure it's not rising since you have a moderately high pH level. > Ammonia becomes far more toxic at higher pH levels. You could always > add more sponge juice to the Q-tank, if you see the ammonia levels > rising above 0.25ppm. > > What do you mean by "bobblrs" on it's fin and body? > > I do not know the dosage of your medication. Hopefully, Ray will > reply with details. My forte with fishkeeping is in keeping them from > getting sick in the first place so I have only limited personal > experience with using medications. I didn't address this issue with > you in your first post but was planning on doing so once we get your Angelfish under treatment. > > While your tablets may be 50mg, there are different potency levels > with many medications, sometimes a 50mg tablet might have 10% > medication and 90% inert ingredients so without knowing more about the > tablet, it's even hard for me to look up more info. If the pill has a > medical number on it, that would probably help a lot.. or contact > whoever gave you the tablets and ask them for more info. Hopefully, a > few tablets will be enough but I'm not sure if it will be. (BUT READ > ON AS A NEW PROBLEM ARISES BELOW) > > I did find this from a link from that reference I listed in a previous > reply. Scroll down about 1/4th on this page and there's a large > section about Minocycline/Maracyn 2. > http://www.americanaquariumproducts.com/AquariumMedication2.html > > Now, a new problem arises. > > Since you have pretty hard water, Minocycline is not as effective as > the calcium in the water will absorb the medication and that RED > section of the part of the article recommends using Kanamycin for hard > water conditions. I learn something new every day! > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles > referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically > under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] > On Behalf Of greyclouds99 > Sent: Friday, December 04, 2009 4:08 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Newbie, and Angelfish question > > Hi Ray and Lenny, > Today I discarded 10 gallons off the H-tank and replaced them with > water from my main 34g tank, then I acclimated the sick Angelfish and > have just put him in now. > Numbers: > Temp. 79 > Nitrite 0 > Nitrates 10 > GH 14 > KH 10 > pH 7.6 > > The water I used yesterday to fill the Q-tank wasn't coming directly > from our water company, it first sets in the house's water supply > tank, because we don't have the water coming 24/7 here. The water has > been setting there for almost 16 hours before I used it to fill the > tank, do you still think that I have no live bacteria left in my filter? > However, I stupidly added the filter BEFORE waiting the temperature to > rise, so -after thinking through it today- maybe the N-bacteria died > of heat shock > (78 --> 60) in an instant :( > > I moved a rock from the main tank to have some N-bacteria in the > H-tank. But can't move any filter media, because it's a single sponge. > I can however take the remaining filter media from my Crown Betta's > tank (4gallons)if this champ can live without it. He's a tough guy BTW. > > I'm just looking at the Angelfish now, and seeing some bobblrs on its > body and fins, doesn't look like a good sign. > > I looked at it from above and saw that the infected eye is slightly > popping out. So I don't know if it's a pop-eye or not, it's more > bloody than yesterday. > I have both salt and something similar to Maracyn II available > (Minocycline 50mg/tablet), but don't know how to use it, I have a few > tablets given to me a couple of weeks ago without treating > indications. (There were no sick fish in my tank back then) > > Another thing, I planted a big fake plant. The Angelfish is moving > normally and looks as calm as usual while exploring the new home, > doesn't look stressed to me. > I'm waiting for your urgent help concerning dosing the medication and > what to do about the bubbles. > > Tristan ------------------------------------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. 74/`7.88.><((((:>.74/`7.88.74/`7.8><((((:> 8.74/`7.8. , .74/`7..><((((:> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <:((((><.74/`7.88.74/`7.8<:((((><8.74/`7.8. , .74/`7..<:((((><74/`7.88. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the home page. Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com to receive the digest, which includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com for the No E-Mail option where you will still be able to read messages on the group and post replies. Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com to receive individual e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 44911	From: sevenspringss@wmconnect.com	Date: 12/5/2009
Subject: Re: RAY- Re: Newbie, and Angelfish question

Tristan, As I said, I hope all this new info that Lenny and I are throwing at you is not getting too heavy for you. I did notice some excellent info Lenny gave you, which I'll reply to but only after addressing your needs -- although I see some of this is linked. By "Monocycline, I presume you meant Minocycline. I did a search for Monocycline and did come up with a medication that's used in dermatology (skin issues) and is recommended fior acne. As another similar search mentioned Monocycline as being a derivitive of Tetracycline, and especially as most all other searches stated that Monocycline was just a mis-spelling of the word Minocycline, I'm now sure that this is was you must have meant. Just as Lenny is advising, I would surely go ahead and use this -- but one question comes to mind since you mention the word "melt." Are these actually (hard) tablets or are they capsules in which the thin outer semi-hardened gelatin shell melts while having the medication contained within it? If you are by chance going to the city tomorrow, ask for Kanamycin by the brand name -- KanaPlex (by SeaChem). It may not be known to some as "Kanamycin:" Kanacyn is also another name for it. Salt (regular table salt) is not as useful for it as Epsom Salts (1 Tablespoon per gallon). This may be used at the onset, but with blood streaking through the eye, I'd want to get something in there that arrests these bacteria ASAP. As I did mention though, Nalagram (Naladixic Acid) by Aquarium Pharmaceuticals, or even Oxolinic Acid will internally treat this. Otherwise, just stick with what you have. Ray [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 44912	From: sevenspringss@wmconnect.com	Date: 12/5/2009
Subject: Re: RAY- Re: Newbie, and Angelfish question

Lenny, Tristan, I see no reason why Tristan's fish wouldn't respond to this medication at least as well, or perhaps even better than the aquarium grade Minocycline since this is medicinal grade medication for human use. The break-down you advised seems to be right on the money as far as I can see -- and as \\Steve// also suggests. I find this to be an EXCELLENT post in going for treatment with a medication already on hand. Ray [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 44913	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 12/5/2009
Subject: Re: Newbie, and Angelfish question

I did account for the hardness (likely higher calcium) levels in my dosing calculations by slightly overdosing on days 3, 4, 5 and 6. I'm not a pharmacist so I have no clue by how much to overdose to compensate for the higher calcium levels in your water or if there is a way to compensate and because the medication comes with a DO NOT OVERDOSE warning, I didn't want to go too much over the recommended dosage. Next, the only worry I have about dissolving the tablet in water for too long, is whether or not this might affect the potency of the medicine. This is why I went for 1/4 tablets so that they would only have to be dissolved and only 1/2 of the med would be subject to a 24 hour standing period in the refrigerator. I also did not want you to waste the tablets since you indicate that you have limited access to medications so these extra tablets could prove to be very useful in the future... and there's a possibility that one or more of your other fish could be affected by this same bacteria issue that is currently affecting your Angelfish. I think you mentioned in a previous post about using human drugs on our fish and as you may have seen, many of the antibiotics that Ray and I have been mentioning are in fact, human drugs that were migrated over to the pet care industry. It's funny how, as humans, we need a prescription to get these drugs but we can walk into PetsMart and buy them for our pet fish and other pets right off the shelf. Of course, they are at a much higher cost per mg, than what a human prescription would cost, so I do not recommend folks buying their antibiotics this way... although I have hear of incidents where someone with a good old-fashioned STD did buy antibiotics at PetsMart instead of paying to go to a doctor. LOL (NO.. it wasn't me! LOL) Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of greyclouds99 Sent: Saturday, December 05, 2009 6:50 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Newbie, and Angelfish question Hi everyone, I looked closely at the tablet (after opening it), it doesn't have any numbers, so we're assuming -as Steve mentioned- that it does the effect of 150 mg Minocycline. It's a big tablet, more like a 1g whole, so I'm pretty sure that it is 150mg of effective ingredient PLUS other fillings. It was well crossed to be split. I'm thinking, if I need 10mg/10gallons = 15mg/15gallons which means 1/10 of a tablet, then I can split a tablet in half(5/10of the whole tablet), dissolve it in a measuring glass tube containing 100 ml of distilled water (the water I would use to prepare my daughter's antibiotic syrup), and then I take 40ml of that solution to be used on the first day, and then 20 ml for the days 2-5. I can simply discard and prepare a new solution every other day, the 8 tablets I have would be more than enough for a double-treatment. What worries me now is the hardness of my water, wouldn't it lessen the effectiveness of the dose? Should I put more than 15mg/15gallons to avoid an under-dosing? If yes: HOW MUCH MORE? Tristan --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@...> wrote: > > This page from DrsFosterSmith.com has dosing information for Mardel's > Maracyn 2, under the "More Information" tab. DFS is generally a > reliable source of details and these instructions look accurate from > the last time I used this medication which was several years ago. > > http://www.drsfostersmith.com/Product/Prod_Display.cfm?pcatid=4842 > > Maracyn-Two Powder Freshwater > Active Ingredient > Each powder packet contains 10 mg Minocycline activity. > > NOTE: Be sure to treat for the full duration recommended, even if > symptoms disappear after a few days. DO NOT overdose. Follow dosage > directions as detailed on the product packaging. > > Dosing Instructions > First day, add 2 packets per 10 gallons of water. On the second > through fifth day, add 1 packet per 10 gallons of water. > > Repeat this 5 day treatment only once if needed. > > (READ THE REST OF THE TABBED INFORMATION FOR MORE DETAILS AND THE FACT > THAT THERE IS A SEPARATE MARACYN-2 PRODUCT FOR SALTWATER TANKS WITH > DIFFERENT INGREDIENTS, PROBABLY DUE TO THE HARD WATER EFFECT ON > MINOCYCLINE) > > IF... AND THAT'S A BIG IF... your tablets are pure Minocycline, then > your 150mg tablets are WAY TOO MUCH to use at one time in a 15G tank. > I wish we knew for certain if they were pure or not. Are there any > numbers on the pills? Most pills/capsules have some kind of number on > them and then we could look that up to know if they are pure or if > they have inert ingredients as part of the pill. > > For the below info, I'm presuming they are pure but if they are only > 10% active ingredients, then the below calculations would be WAY OFF. > > The above instructions from DFS says to use 20mg of Minocycline per > 10G of water for the initial dose and then only 10mg per 10G per day > on the 2nd through 5th day. It also says DO NOT OVERDOSE so that adds > an important twist to things. This would calculate to 30mg per 15G on > the first day and 15mg each subsequent day. > > - ACTUAL DIRECTIONS FOR DOSING YOUR TANK BASED ON ALL OF THE ABOVE - > > If you can accurately split your tablets into four parts, each part > would have around 37.5mg of Minocycline. If you dissolve and mix that > first 37.5mg portion in 3 oz. of distilled water (or possibly bottled > water that is not as hard as your tank water), you could then add 2 > oz. of that water to your 15G tank for the first day and then the > remaining 1 oz. on the next day (NOTE - I WOULD REFRIGERATE THIS LEFT > OVER 1 OZ. UNTIL NEEDED THE NEXT > DAY) This would be slightly under dosing but pretty close to the > actual dose. That first 1/4 tablet would treat day one and two. > Then, on day three, dissolve and mix another 1/4 tablet in 2 oz. of water and add 1 oz. > of this water on day three and then the remaining refrigerated 1 oz. > on day four. These would be slight overdoses (adding 18.75mg instead > of 15mg, which isn't much). Do the same for days five and you might > as well treat a sixth day since you will have 1 oz. of medicated > water. The official directions from Mardel says you can repeat their > medication program for five more days, if needed, so this sixth day > would technically be the first day of the second five day treatment, > if needed. If you do have to continue, then continue with the 3rd and > 4th quarter tablets for dosing days seven and eight and then days nine and ten. > > Please note that you should dissolve and mix these 1/4 tablets as > needed as storing leftovers in distilled or bottled water in the > refrigerator for 24 hours may affect the potency but I do not know of > another simple way to do this. It's going to be hard enough to split > the pill into four parts although some pills are pre-scored for halves or even quarters sometimes. > > Lets see what Ray says also but since you have these tablets already, > you might as well get started with them to see if they start to have > some effect until you can find a better medication. > > Please note that tomorrow, now that I have a lot more information from > you, I will be re-addressing your first post with some of my thoughts > about what might be causing some of your health issues so that you can > start coming up with a plan to fix the causes rather than being stuck > with treating the outcome of your current and likely-to-come health issues. > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 44914	From: sevenspringss@wmconnect.com	Date: 12/5/2009
Subject: Re: Another Question ( Newbie, and Angelfish question)

Lenny, I see you're sure doing your "homework" (or have already done so, to store in your files). With skimming over your post here, I was just about to recommend doing a search @ "American Aquarium Products" but I see you've already done so. Still, I highly recommend your (any any others having an interest) going to: < www.americanaquariumproducts.com/Nitrogen_Cycle.html >. You may especially enjoy the paragraphs entitled "Nitrification" and "What are Nitrifying Bacteria." While we are already in the know about all that's included in this web-site, it's put here again in yet another interesting light for a good read. While I haven't opened your recommended link here, I find the snip to be right on the money, as well as your accompanied message. Ray [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 44915	From: sevenspringss@wmconnect.com	Date: 12/5/2009
Subject: Re: Newbie, and Angelfish question

Tristan, I just saw that your "Tablets" are actually just that -- TABLETS -- and not the capsules that I was unsure that they might have been. The way they're scribed sure makes them convenient to divide. BTW, adding to Lenny's follow-up post on this -- My partner in the fish store I used to have used to take the aquarium medicine Tetracycline whenever he felt any flue-like symptoms coming on. I guess they must have helped him, but as for taking them, that wouldn't be me either. Ray [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 44916	From: sevenspringss@wmconnect.com	Date: 12/5/2009
Subject: Re: Another Question ( Newbie, and Angelfish question)

Tristan, Adding to this message if yours, and adding to your "homework" <g> , I would just like to go into several things we just covered to give you (and any others) some idea of what is meant. I'm sure there are members here who may be familiar with the difference between Gram-Negative and Gram-Positive bacteria, or for that matter just what constitutes one or the other, but there may be some whom all this is nothing but Greek to them. For starters, while I won't go into the medical history of all of this, to determine in the laboratory whether a bacterium is either Gram-Negative or Gram-Positive, there is a four part test for this using two different dyes -- one purple and one pink. When staining bacteria with both of these during this process, if the bacteria turn only pink (and do not absorb the purple dye) they are considered to be Gram-Negative whereas if the bacteria turn purple they are consider to be Gram-Positive. Now, the difference between one group of bacteria and the other, and what allows them to be stained only in the way that they do, is mainly due to the physical characteristics of their cell wall membranes (while there are other major differences between these types of bacteria as well). Simply put, Gram-Positive bacteria have a thick cell wall made up of mostly (50%) Peptidoglycan (a lattice of two sugars) encircling the cell, also with another substance, Teichoic, which stabilizes the cell wall. Gram-Negative bacteria cell walls (of 15 - 20% Peptidoglycan), on the other hand, are made up of two rather thin membranes, the inner one containing this Peptidoglycan (in this lower amount) and an outer membrane covering it. The Gram-Negative bacteria's inner cell walls also contain this stabilizing substance, Teichoic but in addition its outer cell membrane contains Lipoteichoic which is made up of mainly fats and oils (think of "Liposuction" and it will remind you that it pertains to removing fat). That fatty substance is what prevents Gram-Negative bacteria from absorbing and being stained by the purple dye. There are a number of other important differences between these two types of bacteria, such as different Amino Acids and such, but this is the simplicity of it when considering its staining results and consequent classification. Yeah, probably more than you wanted to know, but just in case you or others were curious . . . (LOL). Ray [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 44917	From: sevenspringss@wmconnect.com	Date: 12/5/2009
Subject: Re: [Bulk] RE: [AquaticLife] Problem with fish dying in my tank

Dora, Drs Foster & Smith carries Prazi-Pro. 4 oz. (smallest bottle) - APG-18819 sells for 9.99. I don't believe there is any charge by them for shipping medications but you might check that with them; I may be wrong. Ray [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 44918	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 12/5/2009
Subject: Re: Newbie, and Angelfish question

OK. Going back to your first post, now that we have the treatment process moving forward, I wanted to address your stocking issues which *could* be a cause of some or all of your fish health issues. Also, now that we know more about your water parameters, I can address them as they likely play a part in some of your fish health issues as well. First, the sick Angelfish naturally comes from soft, acidic (low pH) waters and although many available fish are bred and raised in waters that may not be like their natural waters, I'm not sure if your very hard water is conducive to their long-term health. Maybe Ray could address this a little more. Next, your tank has some severe stocking issues. While a 34G tank would probably be OK for a couple of Angelfish and some other smaller fish, depending on the dimensions (give us these LxWxH measurements when you get a chance), it's not nearly big enough for all of the fish you currently have in the tank and this could be a MAJOR cause of stressors on the fish which will then inhibit their immune systems making them far more likely to suffer health issues. The biggest burden is the "3 small Clown Loaches" as they do not stay small. Here is the Mongabay profile on the Clown Loach. http://fish.mongabay.com/species/Botia_macracanthus.html They easily grow to 12"+ and up to 20" in the wild where they have larger homes. I believe the smaller growth in home aquaria is probably due to stunting from keeping them in too small of a tank during their biggest growth periods. They should be kept in schools/shoals of five or more but at least you have three which is better than only having a single specimen... but unless you plan on getting a much larger tank, like a 6' long tank, in the near future, you would be best for you to rehome these three fish. The "Tiger Pleco" needs to be properly identified as to the exact species. Hopefully, it's just a Clown Pleco, Peckoltia pulcher, as they only grow to around 3" to 4", since Mongabay lists Tiger Pleco as another name for the Clown Pleco. http://fish.mongabay.com/species/Peckoltia_pulcher.html BUT... according to PlanetCatfish.com, a Common Name search for Tiger Pleco shows several species that share this common name and does not include this name in the Clown Pleco profile. They do have this one, http://www.planetcatfish.com/catelog/species.php?species_id=735 which only grows to 3.9" but they also have three other species with that common name but fortunately, all of them only grow to the 4"-5" range... BUT... there is a LOT of misidentification of catfish and plecos at many stores. Do you happen to know the species name on your fish or can you call the seller of your fish to find that out? You can try looking at the images on these next three profiles but if it's a young specimen, they can look much different than they'll eventually look like as an adult specimen... much like us humans. Prince Tiger Pleco - http://www.planetcatfish.com/catelog/species.php?species_id=1715 Iquitos Tiger Pleco - http://www.planetcatfish.com/catelog/species.php?species_id=761 King Tiger Pleco - http://www.planetcatfish.com/catelog/species.php?species_id=174 Knowing the actual species name of ANY fish before you buy it is best although many common tropical fish do not have as much of a problem with misidentification as catfish and cichlid species where it's far more important to know the actual species name BEFORE buying the fish. As to your Angelfish, they are more than likely P. scalare or one of the many variants cause by likely cross-breeding of them over the years but the bottom half of this profile deals with P. Scalare, http://fish.mongabay.com/angelfish.htm and you will see where they primarily come from lower pH (6.5) and softer water (5 dH) in the wild but have been found naturally in waters up to 7.5 pH and as high as 20 dH hardness levels. You'll also see where they grow to 6" long and as tall as 9", excluding fins. For this reason, they should be kept in a deeper tank then is usually suggested for most other fish. Last but not least is the Black Widow Tetra, http://fish.mongabay.com/species/Gymnocorymbus_ternetzi.html, and you will see where these each grow to 2.5" and should be kept in schools of six or more. Read the rest of the profile for more details. Note and read the SC sections on each of the Mongabay profiles for suitable or suggested companions for each of your fish and if Mongabay does not recommend them being kept together, that is another reason to consider in stocking your aquarium. In conclusion, after your Angelfish is healed up, you might want to consider disinfecting the 15G and then resetting it up as a permanent second tank and keep the Black Widow Tetras in that tank and keep the Angelfish in the 34G and then rehome the three Clown Loaches. You could keep the Tiger Pleco in the 34G as well, if it is indeed a dwarf pleco species and not one of the more common plecos that grow to over 16" and as much as 24". This would give your remaining fish the best chance at long term health and minimize the possibility of further stunting them. It will mean slightly more work for you since you will be doing weekly PWC's, filter maintenance and gravel vacuuming on two tanks instead of one but I find it doesn't take that much longer to take care of multiple tanks over a single tank anyhow... but it would be a lot easier in the long run with having less health issues for you and your fish to deal with and/or dying fish on your hands. In the future, it would be best to only buy fish that are compatible with your water parameters instead of trying to acclimate soft water, lower pH fish to hard water, higher pH conditions as this is just another stressor that can lead to health issues. There are MANY species that love your kind of water. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of greyclouds99 Sent: Thursday, December 03, 2009 3:39 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Newbie, and Angelfish question I'm kinda new to this hobby, and wondering what to do with my sick Angel. I guess it's a "she", because her belly looks big since a couple of weeks. So, 'she' is in a community 34 gallon tank, along with two younger Angels, a Tiger Pleco, some black widow tetras, and 3 small Clown Loaches. The Angelfish's eye look awful, started to get whitish a few days ago, and today I noticed a bloody spot inside it, and there is a small dark grey bulge coming out of the eye's edge. The white fuss is getting more intense. I have no idea what all of this is, so I started setting a spare 15g tank to isolate the Angelfish. Two questions: 1) what's this disease and what's the cure? 2) I need help in setting that 15gallon hospital tank, it has been dry for almost a year, I filled it a couple of hours ago from my tap water, put a heater in, and set an old internal power filter that hasn't been used for two years. I have put half of my Betta's filter media in that power filter and the other half is brand new. Everything is turned on now, and I don't know what 's next to be done, or when can I house the sick Angelfish in. Tristan

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 44919	From: Dora Smith	Date: 12/5/2009
Subject: Re: Problem with fish dying in my tank

I can see I'm working on that one tomorrow. Yours, Dora Smith Austin, TX tiggernut24@... ----- Original Message ----- From: "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@...> To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Friday, December 04, 2009 9:18 PM Subject: [Bulk] RE: [Bulk] RE: [Bulk] RE: [AquaticLife] Problem with fish dying in my tank Purple Algae??? I've read that BBA (Black Brush Algae - Audouinella sp.) can be in the red to brown range which might result in a purple looking color, but purple is not very common from all I've read over the years. BGA (Blue Green Algae), which is actually Cyanobacteria can also be in various colorations from blue-green to dark green and almost black so I'm guessing a purple could develop. The BBA isn't harmful but BGA can be harmful. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cyanobacteria#Health_risks Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Dora Smith Sent: Friday, December 04, 2009 8:12 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [Bulk] RE: [Bulk] RE: [AquaticLife] Problem with fish dying in my tank Speaking of issues, I've got some patches of purple algae on the walls of my aquarium. Is this harmful? They probably came from teh algae rocks I used to feed my algae eaters, before I gave up on them. The water quality seems to be fine. No ammonia, no nitrites, and the nitrates are between 5 and 10 ppwhatever. The tank did go a bit downhill a week or so ago, but I've got it back up to snuff - except for the patches of purple algae. Yours, Dora Smith Austin, TX tiggernut24@... ----- Original Message ----- From: "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@...> To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Friday, December 04, 2009 7:22 PM Subject: [Bulk] RE: [Bulk] RE: [AquaticLife] Problem with fish dying in my tank The filter media is fine. As usual, remove carbon when using any medication. If you do a Google Image search on 'goldfish gill flukes microscope', I'm sure you'll find plenty of good microscopic images of what they look like, for comparative purposes. You need to quit buying fish for a while until you get your tank's health situation in check. It sounds like you may have issues already and then adding fish that might have other issues is just compounding things. Any fish you get from the big box stores should definitely be quarantined before adding them to your display tank. I guess, if you were getting fish from an individual breeder who you know to have healthy tanks, maybe one might risk adding them directly to a display tank but certainly not fish bought from anywhere else. How old are/were your zebra danios? Remember to add zebra in front as there are many types of danios but I'm pretty sure you have zebra danios and the glofish are zebra danios as well. ZD's should live for around five years, according to this very extensive fish lifespan guide... http://goldlenny.blogspot.com/2007/02/how-long-should-aquarium-fish-live.htm l (OUCH.. I just sprained my shoulder patting myself on the back! ;-)) If yours aren't making it at least 3-4 years, then something is going wrong. I have also seen the bent spine and/or swimming nose up near the bottom as two signs when a ZD is on it's last leg... or would that be fin? But mine were close to the five year mark and did not respond to any treatments so I believe it was just old age that did them in. I haven't owned any ZD's in a while but I just did a Google search of 'zebra danio bent spine' and there are hundreds of hits in forums so apparently this is something that seems to be more common with more recently purchased ZD's since most of these forum posts are from 2007 to present. I only saw one on Robin's page that was from 2001. Out of the 1,300+ hits, over 583 are from the past year. I hope this isn't something like NTD that ravished Neon Tetras for a long time. Bent spine, from what I recall, is one of the symptoms of Fish TB, but is also attributed to stray voltage and birth defects as well but there's a chance your tank/fish could have Fish TB. Read up more on that before jumping to any conclusions about this contagious disease... even contagious to humans but not related to Human TB. Parasites can spread quickly and then once they infest a fish/tank, it causes the fish a lot of stress and then the fish's immune system falters and other minor bacterial issues, that the fish would normally have warded off, becomes more critical. I'm not sure of the best place to get PraziPro. It's owned by Hikari now, if I'm not mistaken, so it could be in a big-box pet store or you might have to buy it online. I know DrsFosterSmith.com sells it and I'm sure many other big online fish sites sell it. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Dora Smith Sent: Friday, December 04, 2009 5:59 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [Bulk] RE: [AquaticLife] Problem with fish dying in my tank Lenny, while I treat the tank with this stuff, what do I do with the filter media? I do have a good microscope and all the fish disease books; if gill flukes are there you'd think I can find them. I have been steadily but slowly losing danios for awhile, but they were all new fish, and they were also glofish. I decided they just weren't destined to live. They also developed that crookedy spine thing that I'm in fact noticing lately in all danios at Petco. The newest danios from two days ago came from Petsmart. But would gill flukes strike all at once? One other thing; where's the best place to get praziwhatsit in a hurry? Yours, Dora Smith Austin, TX tiggernut24@... ----- Original Message ----- From: "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@...> To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Friday, December 04, 2009 5:53 PM Subject: [Bulk] RE: [AquaticLife] Problem with fish dying in my tank It sounds like you added new fish to the tank "a couple of days ago" and now you have health issues so more than likely, the new fish brought in a pathogen that your existing fish did not have an immunity. More than likely a parasite, possibly gill flukes, instead of bacterial since bacterial infections do not normally kill so quickly. As a general rule, there really is no such thing as immunity for parasites although some fish are more susceptible than others to parasitic issues. There are some theories out there about external parasites and some fish containing a chemical in their slime coat that deters external parasites. This is why we preach about quarantining new fish for several weeks so you can observe them for any possible health issues and while I do not "pre-treat" quarantined fish for most health issues unless I see something specific, I will and do use and recommend PraziPro (praziquantel) in the Q-tank since it's a very mild treatment and will kill off gill flukes and many other internal flatworms. Many goldfish from large breeders with big outdoor ponds will almost always have gill flukes. I believe praziquantel is the same drug used to deworm cats and dogs... and humans too in the U.S.A., if they get this types of worms. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Praziquantel You could treat the tank with PraziPro while observing for other symptoms. Get the smallest bottle you can find as you only need a little bit for treatment. I have a 4 oz. bottle that I've used a few times and still have more than 3 oz. left. It will probably expire before I ever use it all since I haven't been buying any new fish for quite a while since I downsized my MTS after Katrina. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Dora Smith Sent: Friday, December 04, 2009 5:10 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Problem with fish dying in my tank I've suddenly got a whole bunch of fish dying in my 20 gallon tank. A few days ago I removed a dead pristella tetra. Today suddenly it's three danios and a pristella tetra, and it's teh larger danios and not the two little ones I bought a couple of days ago. I haven't seen any signs of disease, except that one of the danios had red gills for awhile. The remaining fish are swimming around happily, and their appetite is good. The ammonia is close to 0, nitrites 0, nitrates between 5 and 10 ppm. What should I do? Four little corpses are sitting next to the tank, if there's anything in particular I should look for. Yours, Dora Smith Austin, TX tiggernut24@... ------------------------------------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the home page. Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com to receive the digest, which includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com for the No E-Mail option where you will still be able to read messages on the group and post replies. Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com to receive individual e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 44920	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 12/5/2009
Subject: questions about Yoyo loaches or other small snail eating loaches.

I was considering picking up some yoyo loaches at some point for my 125 gallon tank, but I have a concern or two first. I'm looking for a smaller loach that eats smaller pond/pest snails but isn't aggressive at the same time, so if there's a better one than yoyo loaches please feel free to let me know, LOL. My biggest concern is this; Do I need to take all my adult mystery snails out of the tank when I add any snail eating loaches, or are my adult size mystery snails too big for them to kill and eat? My goal is to get rid of my ramshorn snails, a good portion of the MTS, and some small pond snails (couldn't find any other name for them when searching for them on google). If I put something in the tank I may very well forget to take it out, so I haven't tried the lettuce method yet, I didn't want to kill my fish by forgetting food in the tank on accident. Amber

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 44921	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 12/5/2009
Subject: Re: Problem with fish dying in my tank

Okay after looking for lots of pics on BGA I'm pretty sure I have a case of it in my 125 gallon tank, and that's probably what is killing my snails randomly. I found this pic on the wiki that looks exactly like what I have in my 125 gallon tank (in the back behind the plants). What should I do to get rid of it? http://theaquariumwiki.com/BGA The wiki says hydrogen peroxide, but I will have to remove all my mystery snails first, as it will harm them. Amber Dora Smith wrote: > > I can see I'm working on that one tomorrow. > > Yours, > Dora Smith > Austin, TX > tiggernut24@... <mailto:tiggernut24%40yahoo.com> > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@... > <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com>> > To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>> > Sent: Friday, December 04, 2009 9:18 PM > Subject: [Bulk] RE: [Bulk] RE: [Bulk] RE: [AquaticLife] Problem with fish > dying in my tank > > Purple Algae??? I've read that BBA (Black Brush Algae - Audouinella sp.) > can be in the red to brown range which might result in a purple looking > color, but purple is not very common from all I've read over the years. > > BGA (Blue Green Algae), which is actually Cyanobacteria can also be in > various colorations from blue-green to dark green and almost black so I'm > guessing a purple could develop. > > The BBA isn't harmful but BGA can be harmful. > http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cyanobacteria#Health_risks > <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cyanobacteria#Health_risks> > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right > side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On > Behalf Of Dora Smith > Sent: Friday, December 04, 2009 8:12 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Subject: Re: [Bulk] RE: [Bulk] RE: [AquaticLife] Problem with fish > dying in > my tank > > Speaking of issues, I've got some patches of purple algae on the walls > of my > > aquarium. Is this harmful? They probably came from teh algae rocks I > used to feed my algae eaters, before I gave up on them. > > The water quality seems to be fine. No ammonia, no nitrites, and the > nitrates are between 5 and 10 ppwhatever. The tank did go a bit downhill a > > week or so ago, but I've got it back up to snuff - except for the > patches of > purple algae. > > Yours, > Dora Smith > Austin, TX > tiggernut24@... <mailto:tiggernut24%40yahoo.com> > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@... > <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com>> > To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>> > Sent: Friday, December 04, 2009 7:22 PM > Subject: [Bulk] RE: [Bulk] RE: [AquaticLife] Problem with fish dying in my > tank > > The filter media is fine. As usual, remove carbon when using any > medication. > > If you do a Google Image search on 'goldfish gill flukes microscope', I'm > sure you'll find plenty of good microscopic images of what they look like, > for comparative purposes. > > You need to quit buying fish for a while until you get your tank's health > situation in check. It sounds like you may have issues already and then > adding fish that might have other issues is just compounding things. Any > fish you get from the big box stores should definitely be quarantined > before > adding them to your display tank. I guess, if you were getting fish > from an > individual breeder who you know to have healthy tanks, maybe one might > risk > adding them directly to a display tank but certainly not fish bought from > anywhere else. > > How old are/were your zebra danios? Remember to add zebra in front as > there > are many types of danios but I'm pretty sure you have zebra danios and the > glofish are zebra danios as well. ZD's should live for around five years, > according to this very extensive fish lifespan guide... > http://goldlenny.blogspot.com/2007/02/how-long-should-aquarium-fish-live.htm > <http://goldlenny.blogspot.com/2007/02/how-long-should-aquarium-fish-live.htm> > l (OUCH.. I just sprained my shoulder patting myself on the back! ;-)) If > yours aren't making it at least 3-4 years, then something is going > wrong. I > have also seen the bent spine and/or swimming nose up near the bottom > as two > signs when a ZD is on it's last leg... or would that be fin? But mine were > close to the five year mark and did not respond to any treatments so I > believe it was just old age that did them in. > > I haven't owned any ZD's in a while but I just did a Google search of > 'zebra > danio bent spine' and there are hundreds of hits in forums so apparently > this is something that seems to be more common with more recently > purchased > ZD's since most of these forum posts are from 2007 to present. I only saw > one on Robin's page that was from 2001. Out of the 1,300+ hits, over 583 > are from the past year. I hope this isn't something like NTD that ravished > Neon Tetras for a long time. Bent spine, from what I recall, is one of the > symptoms of Fish TB, but is also attributed to stray voltage and birth > defects as well but there's a chance your tank/fish could have Fish TB. > Read up more on that before jumping to any conclusions about this > contagious > disease... even contagious to humans but not related to Human TB. > > Parasites can spread quickly and then once they infest a fish/tank, it > causes the fish a lot of stress and then the fish's immune system falters > and other minor bacterial issues, that the fish would normally have warded > off, becomes more critical. > > I'm not sure of the best place to get PraziPro. It's owned by Hikari now, > if I'm not mistaken, so it could be in a big-box pet store or you > might have > to buy it online. I know DrsFosterSmith.com sells it and I'm sure many > other big online fish sites sell it. > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> (Links to any articles referenced > in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under > Labels and > also under Archives by Year, Month) > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On > Behalf Of Dora Smith > Sent: Friday, December 04, 2009 5:59 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Subject: Re: [Bulk] RE: [AquaticLife] Problem with fish dying in my tank > > Lenny, while I treat the tank with this stuff, what do I do with the > filter > media? > > I do have a good microscope and all the fish disease books; if gill flukes > are there you'd think I can find them. > > I have been steadily but slowly losing danios for awhile, but they > were all > new fish, and they were also glofish. I decided they just weren't destined > to live. They also developed that crookedy spine thing that I'm in fact > noticing lately in all danios at Petco. The newest danios from two days > ago came from Petsmart. > > But would gill flukes strike all at once? > > One other thing; where's the best place to get praziwhatsit in a hurry? > > Yours, > Dora Smith > Austin, TX > tiggernut24@... <mailto:tiggernut24%40yahoo.com> > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@... > <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com>> > To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>> > Sent: Friday, December 04, 2009 5:53 PM > Subject: [Bulk] RE: [AquaticLife] Problem with fish dying in my tank > > It sounds like you added new fish to the tank "a couple of days ago" > and now > you have health issues so more than likely, the new fish brought in a > pathogen that your existing fish did not have an immunity. More than > likely > a parasite, possibly gill flukes, instead of bacterial since bacterial > infections do not normally kill so quickly. As a general rule, there > really > is no such thing as immunity for parasites although some fish are more > susceptible than others to parasitic issues. There are some theories out > there about external parasites and some fish containing a chemical in > their > slime coat that deters external parasites. > > This is why we preach about quarantining new fish for several weeks so you > can observe them for any possible health issues and while I do not > "pre-treat" quarantined fish for most health issues unless I see something > specific, I will and do use and recommend PraziPro (praziquantel) in the > Q-tank since it's a very mild treatment and will kill off gill flukes and > many other internal flatworms. Many goldfish from large breeders with big > outdoor ponds will almost always have gill flukes. I believe praziquantel > is the same drug used to deworm cats and dogs... and humans too in the > U.S.A., if they get this types of worms. > http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Praziquantel > <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Praziquantel> > > You could treat the tank with PraziPro while observing for other symptoms. > Get the smallest bottle you can find as you only need a little bit for > treatment. I have a 4 oz. bottle that I've used a few times and still have > more than 3 oz. left. It will probably expire before I ever use it all > since I haven't been buying any new fish for quite a while since I > downsized > my MTS after Katrina. > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> (Links to any articles referenced > in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under > Labels and > also under Archives by Year, Month) > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On > Behalf Of Dora Smith > Sent: Friday, December 04, 2009 5:10 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Subject: [AquaticLife] Problem with fish dying in my tank > > I've suddenly got a whole bunch of fish dying in my 20 gallon tank. A few > days ago I removed a dead pristella tetra. Today suddenly it's three > danios and a pristella tetra, and it's teh larger danios and not the two > little ones I bought a couple of days ago. > > I haven't seen any signs of disease, except that one of the danios had red > gills for awhile. > > The remaining fish are swimming around happily, and their appetite is > good. > > The ammonia is close to 0, nitrites 0, nitrates between 5 and 10 ppm. > > What should I do? > > Four little corpses are sitting next to the tank, if there's anything in > particular I should look for. > > Yours, > Dora Smith > Austin, TX > tiggernut24@... <mailto:tiggernut24%40yahoo.com> > > ------------------------------------ > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. > ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> > PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT > important to > the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the > SUBJECT > LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- > <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. > > If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of unsubscribing, > you > can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My Membership" on > the > home page. > > Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:aquaticlife-digest%40yahoogroups.com> to receive the digest, > which > includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email > > Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:aquaticlife-nomail%40yahoogroups.com> for the No E-Mail option > where > you will still be able to read messages on the group and post replies. > > Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:aquaticlife-normal%40yahoogroups.com> to receive individual > e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 44922	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 12/5/2009
Subject: Re: questions about Yoyo loaches or other small snail eating loaches

Well, worse case if you forget to take the food out is that the snails will eat it all and reproduce even more since most snails are opportunistic breeders. That should be enough to make you remember to take it out the next morning. Or, you could tie a string around your finger when you put the leaf in at night and when you wake up in the morning with your finger swollen because you tied the string too tight, that will also remind you about the leaf of lettuce or spinach. Of course, be careful if your fish eat the spinach as it could result in Popeye! Arrr! Arrr! Or should that be A-gah-gah-gah-gah-gah-gah :-D http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KYK3Fz6pXnA I'm not sure how effective loaches are on MTS since their shells are so hard and they have trap doors. I don't think they'll discriminate against eating your Mystery Snails, regardless of size. If you get snail eating loaches for the tank, don't plan on keeping snails in that tank any longer. There are also these Assassin Snails, Anentome helena, http://forums.loaches.com/viewtopic.php?t=12094&postdays=0&postorder=asc&sta rt=0 (five page thread) but they would also go after your Mystery Snails. Of course, you could always move the Assassin Snails to one of your 10G's after they do their thing and then put your Mystery Snails back into the 125G. Supposedly, Assassin Snails do not breed much You couldn't do this with the YoYo's or any other loaches. On a regular basis, and when you get too many Mystery Snails, throw some into the 10G Assassin Snail tank for them to eat. Check eBay and Aquabid for sellers of these snails. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Amber Berglund Sent: Saturday, December 05, 2009 1:40 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] questions about Yoyo loaches or other small snail eating loaches. I was considering picking up some yoyo loaches at some point for my 125 gallon tank, but I have a concern or two first. I'm looking for a smaller loach that eats smaller pond/pest snails but isn't aggressive at the same time, so if there's a better one than yoyo loaches please feel free to let me know, LOL. My biggest concern is this; Do I need to take all my adult mystery snails out of the tank when I add any snail eating loaches, or are my adult size mystery snails too big for them to kill and eat? My goal is to get rid of my ramshorn snails, a good portion of the MTS, and some small pond snails (couldn't find any other name for them when searching for them on google). If I put something in the tank I may very well forget to take it out, so I haven't tried the lettuce method yet, I didn't want to kill my fish by forgetting food in the tank on accident. Amber

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 44923	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 12/5/2009
Subject: Re: questions about Yoyo loaches or other small snail eating loaches

So in other words they would eat any snail, even my big ones ;) LOL. That's all I needed to know about whether I should get them for that tank or not. I'm considering them for the Angelfish tank since they still haven't had any babies (keep eating their eggs, oh well). Should I get semi-aggressive loaches if I put them in that tank? I suppose more aggressive ones might hurt the Angel's. Amber Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > > Well, worse case if you forget to take the food out is that the snails > will > eat it all and reproduce even more since most snails are opportunistic > breeders. That should be enough to make you remember to take it out the > next morning. > > Or, you could tie a string around your finger when you put the leaf in at > night and when you wake up in the morning with your finger swollen because > you tied the string too tight, that will also remind you about the leaf of > lettuce or spinach. > > Of course, be careful if your fish eat the spinach as it could result in > Popeye! Arrr! Arrr! Or should that be A-gah-gah-gah-gah-gah-gah :-D > http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KYK3Fz6pXnA > <http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KYK3Fz6pXnA> > > I'm not sure how effective loaches are on MTS since their shells are > so hard > and they have trap doors. I don't think they'll discriminate against > eating > your Mystery Snails, regardless of size. > > If you get snail eating loaches for the tank, don't plan on keeping snails > in that tank any longer. > > There are also these Assassin Snails, Anentome helena, > http://forums.loaches.com/viewtopic.php?t=12094&postdays=0&postorder=asc&sta > <http://forums.loaches.com/viewtopic.php?t=12094&postdays=0&postorder=asc&sta> > rt=0 (five page thread) but they would also go after your Mystery Snails. > Of course, you could always move the Assassin Snails to one of your 10G's > after they do their thing and then put your Mystery Snails back into the > 125G. Supposedly, Assassin Snails do not breed much You couldn't do this > with the YoYo's or any other loaches. On a regular basis, and when you get > too many Mystery Snails, throw some into the 10G Assassin Snail tank for > them to eat. > > Check eBay and Aquabid for sellers of these snails. > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right > side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On > Behalf Of Amber Berglund > Sent: Saturday, December 05, 2009 1:40 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Subject: [AquaticLife] questions about Yoyo loaches or other small snail > eating loaches. > > I was considering picking up some yoyo loaches at some point for my 125 > gallon tank, but I have a concern or two first. I'm looking for a smaller > loach that eats smaller pond/pest snails but isn't aggressive at the same > time, so if there's a better one than yoyo loaches please feel free to let > me know, LOL. My biggest concern is this; Do I need to take all my adult > mystery snails out of the tank when I add any snail eating loaches, or are > my adult size mystery snails too big for them to kill and eat? My goal > is to > get rid of my ramshorn snails, a good portion of the MTS, and some small > pond snails (couldn't find any other name for them when searching for them > on google). If I put something in the tank I may very well forget to > take it > out, so I haven't tried the lettuce method yet, I didn't want to kill my > fish by forgetting food in the tank on accident. > > Amber > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 44924	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 12/5/2009
Subject: Re: Problem with fish dying in my tank

Erythromycin or other gram-positive antibiotic will do the job but that will also do a job on your nitrifying bacteria so remove your filters while treating with Erythro. That Wiki page warns about how bacteria can develop a resistance to antibiotics if not used properly so you would have to dose the tank for a full 5-10 days to be sure you've killed off all the BGA in the tank. BGA - Cyanobacteria is more like a slime and pictures 2 and 3 on that Wiki page shows it better. It can also grow as slimy sheets on the glass also. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Amber Berglund Sent: Saturday, December 05, 2009 1:46 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Problem with fish dying in my tank Okay after looking for lots of pics on BGA I'm pretty sure I have a case of it in my 125 gallon tank, and that's probably what is killing my snails randomly. I found this pic on the wiki that looks exactly like what I have in my 125 gallon tank (in the back behind the plants). What should I do to get rid of it? http://theaquariumwiki.com/BGA The wiki says hydrogen peroxide, but I will have to remove all my mystery snails first, as it will harm them. Amber Dora Smith wrote: > > I can see I'm working on that one tomorrow. > > Yours, > Dora Smith > Austin, TX > tiggernut24@... <mailto:tiggernut24%40yahoo.com> > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@... > <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com>> > To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>> > Sent: Friday, December 04, 2009 9:18 PM > Subject: [Bulk] RE: [Bulk] RE: [Bulk] RE: [AquaticLife] Problem with > fish dying in my tank > > Purple Algae??? I've read that BBA (Black Brush Algae - Audouinella > sp.) can be in the red to brown range which might result in a purple > looking color, but purple is not very common from all I've read over the years. > > BGA (Blue Green Algae), which is actually Cyanobacteria can also be in > various colorations from blue-green to dark green and almost black so > I'm guessing a purple could develop. > > The BBA isn't harmful but BGA can be harmful. > http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cyanobacteria#Health_risks > <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cyanobacteria#Health_risks> > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> (Links to any articles referenced in > above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels > and also under Archives by Year, Month) > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On Behalf Of Dora Smith > Sent: Friday, December 04, 2009 8:12 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Subject: Re: [Bulk] RE: [Bulk] RE: [AquaticLife] Problem with fish > dying in my tank > > Speaking of issues, I've got some patches of purple algae on the walls > of my > > aquarium. Is this harmful? They probably came from teh algae rocks I > used to feed my algae eaters, before I gave up on them. > > The water quality seems to be fine. No ammonia, no nitrites, and the > nitrates are between 5 and 10 ppwhatever. The tank did go a bit > downhill a > > week or so ago, but I've got it back up to snuff - except for the > patches of purple algae. > > Yours, > Dora Smith > Austin, TX > tiggernut24@... <mailto:tiggernut24%40yahoo.com> > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@... > <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com>> > To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>> > Sent: Friday, December 04, 2009 7:22 PM > Subject: [Bulk] RE: [Bulk] RE: [AquaticLife] Problem with fish dying > in my tank > > The filter media is fine. As usual, remove carbon when using any > medication. > > If you do a Google Image search on 'goldfish gill flukes microscope', > I'm sure you'll find plenty of good microscopic images of what they > look like, for comparative purposes. > > You need to quit buying fish for a while until you get your tank's > health situation in check. It sounds like you may have issues already > and then adding fish that might have other issues is just compounding > things. Any fish you get from the big box stores should definitely be > quarantined before adding them to your display tank. I guess, if you > were getting fish from an individual breeder who you know to have > healthy tanks, maybe one might risk adding them directly to a display > tank but certainly not fish bought from anywhere else. > > How old are/were your zebra danios? Remember to add zebra in front as > there are many types of danios but I'm pretty sure you have zebra > danios and the glofish are zebra danios as well. ZD's should live for > around five years, according to this very extensive fish lifespan > guide... > http://goldlenny.blogspot.com/2007/02/how-long-should-aquarium-fish-li > ve.htm > <http://goldlenny.blogspot.com/2007/02/how-long-should-aquarium-fish-l > ive.htm> l (OUCH.. I just sprained my shoulder patting myself on the > back! ;-)) If yours aren't making it at least 3-4 years, then > something is going wrong. I have also seen the bent spine and/or > swimming nose up near the bottom as two signs when a ZD is on it's > last leg... or would that be fin? But mine were close to the five year > mark and did not respond to any treatments so I believe it was just > old age that did them in. > > I haven't owned any ZD's in a while but I just did a Google search of > 'zebra danio bent spine' and there are hundreds of hits in forums so > apparently this is something that seems to be more common with more > recently purchased ZD's since most of these forum posts are from 2007 > to present. I only saw one on Robin's page that was from 2001. Out of > the 1,300+ hits, over 583 are from the past year. I hope this isn't > something like NTD that ravished Neon Tetras for a long time. Bent > spine, from what I recall, is one of the symptoms of Fish TB, but is > also attributed to stray voltage and birth defects as well but there's > a chance your tank/fish could have Fish TB. > Read up more on that before jumping to any conclusions about this > contagious disease... even contagious to humans but not related to > Human TB. > > Parasites can spread quickly and then once they infest a fish/tank, it > causes the fish a lot of stress and then the fish's immune system > falters and other minor bacterial issues, that the fish would normally > have warded off, becomes more critical. > > I'm not sure of the best place to get PraziPro. It's owned by Hikari > now, if I'm not mistaken, so it could be in a big-box pet store or you > might have to buy it online. I know DrsFosterSmith.com sells it and > I'm sure many other big online fish sites sell it. > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> (Links to any articles referenced in > above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels > and also under Archives by Year, Month) > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On Behalf Of Dora Smith > Sent: Friday, December 04, 2009 5:59 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Subject: Re: [Bulk] RE: [AquaticLife] Problem with fish dying in my > tank > > Lenny, while I treat the tank with this stuff, what do I do with the > filter media? > > I do have a good microscope and all the fish disease books; if gill > flukes are there you'd think I can find them. > > I have been steadily but slowly losing danios for awhile, but they > were all new fish, and they were also glofish. I decided they just > weren't destined to live. They also developed that crookedy spine > thing that I'm in fact noticing lately in all danios at Petco. The > newest danios from two days ago came from Petsmart. > > But would gill flukes strike all at once? > > One other thing; where's the best place to get praziwhatsit in a hurry? > > Yours, > Dora Smith > Austin, TX > tiggernut24@... <mailto:tiggernut24%40yahoo.com> > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@... > <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com>> > To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>> > Sent: Friday, December 04, 2009 5:53 PM > Subject: [Bulk] RE: [AquaticLife] Problem with fish dying in my tank > > It sounds like you added new fish to the tank "a couple of days ago" > and now > you have health issues so more than likely, the new fish brought in a > pathogen that your existing fish did not have an immunity. More than > likely a parasite, possibly gill flukes, instead of bacterial since > bacterial infections do not normally kill so quickly. As a general > rule, there really is no such thing as immunity for parasites although > some fish are more susceptible than others to parasitic issues. There > are some theories out there about external parasites and some fish > containing a chemical in their slime coat that deters external > parasites. > > This is why we preach about quarantining new fish for several weeks so > you can observe them for any possible health issues and while I do not > "pre-treat" quarantined fish for most health issues unless I see > something specific, I will and do use and recommend PraziPro > (praziquantel) in the Q-tank since it's a very mild treatment and will > kill off gill flukes and many other internal flatworms. Many goldfish > from large breeders with big outdoor ponds will almost always have > gill flukes. I believe praziquantel is the same drug used to deworm > cats and dogs... and humans too in the U.S.A., if they get this types of worms. > http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Praziquantel > <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Praziquantel> > > You could treat the tank with PraziPro while observing for other symptoms. > Get the smallest bottle you can find as you only need a little bit for > treatment. I have a 4 oz. bottle that I've used a few times and still > have more than 3 oz. left. It will probably expire before I ever use > it all since I haven't been buying any new fish for quite a while > since I downsized my MTS after Katrina. > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> (Links to any articles referenced in > above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels > and also under Archives by Year, Month) > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On Behalf Of Dora Smith > Sent: Friday, December 04, 2009 5:10 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Subject: [AquaticLife] Problem with fish dying in my tank > > I've suddenly got a whole bunch of fish dying in my 20 gallon tank. A > few days ago I removed a dead pristella tetra. Today suddenly it's > three danios and a pristella tetra, and it's teh larger danios and not > the two little ones I bought a couple of days ago. > > I haven't seen any signs of disease, except that one of the danios had > red gills for awhile. > > The remaining fish are swimming around happily, and their appetite is > good. > > The ammonia is close to 0, nitrites 0, nitrates between 5 and 10 ppm. > > What should I do? > > Four little corpses are sitting next to the tank, if there's anything > in particular I should look for. > > Yours, > Dora Smith > Austin, TX > tiggernut24@... <mailto:tiggernut24%40yahoo.com>

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 44925	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 12/5/2009
Subject: Re: Problem with fish dying in my tank

Yes I have slimy sheets of it covering a plant in the back of the tank, that side gets a little sunlight during the day, perhaps it's getting too much, I will have to cover that side or something during the day. Amber Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > > Erythromycin or other gram-positive antibiotic will do the job but > that will > also do a job on your nitrifying bacteria so remove your filters while > treating with Erythro. That Wiki page warns about how bacteria can develop > a resistance to antibiotics if not used properly so you would have to dose > the tank for a full 5-10 days to be sure you've killed off all the BGA in > the tank. > > BGA - Cyanobacteria is more like a slime and pictures 2 and 3 on that Wiki > page shows it better. It can also grow as slimy sheets on the glass also. > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right > side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) > > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On > Behalf Of Amber Berglund > Sent: Saturday, December 05, 2009 1:46 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Problem with fish dying in my tank > > Okay after looking for lots of pics on BGA I'm pretty sure I have a > case of > it in my 125 gallon tank, and that's probably what is killing my snails > randomly. > I found this pic on the wiki that looks exactly like what I have in my > 125 gallon tank (in the back behind the plants). What should I do to > get rid > of it? > http://theaquariumwiki.com/BGA <http://theaquariumwiki.com/BGA> > The wiki says hydrogen peroxide, but I will have to remove all my mystery > snails first, as it will harm them. > > Amber > > Dora Smith wrote: > > > > I can see I'm working on that one tomorrow. > > > > Yours, > > Dora Smith > > Austin, TX > > tiggernut24@... <mailto:tiggernut24%40yahoo.com> > <mailto:tiggernut24%40yahoo.com> > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@... > <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com> > > <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com>> > > To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>> > > Sent: Friday, December 04, 2009 9:18 PM > > Subject: [Bulk] RE: [Bulk] RE: [Bulk] RE: [AquaticLife] Problem with > > fish dying in my tank > > > > Purple Algae??? I've read that BBA (Black Brush Algae - Audouinella > > sp.) can be in the red to brown range which might result in a purple > > looking color, but purple is not very common from all I've read over the > years. > > > > BGA (Blue Green Algae), which is actually Cyanobacteria can also be in > > various colorations from blue-green to dark green and almost black so > > I'm guessing a purple could develop. > > > > The BBA isn't harmful but BGA can be harmful. > > http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cyanobacteria#Health_risks > <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cyanobacteria#Health_risks> > > <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cyanobacteria#Health_risks > <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cyanobacteria#Health_risks>> > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>> > (Links to any articles referenced in > > above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels > > and also under Archives by Year, Month) > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On Behalf Of Dora Smith > > Sent: Friday, December 04, 2009 8:12 PM > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > Subject: Re: [Bulk] RE: [Bulk] RE: [AquaticLife] Problem with fish > > dying in my tank > > > > Speaking of issues, I've got some patches of purple algae on the walls > > of my > > > > aquarium. Is this harmful? They probably came from teh algae rocks I > > used to feed my algae eaters, before I gave up on them. > > > > The water quality seems to be fine. No ammonia, no nitrites, and the > > nitrates are between 5 and 10 ppwhatever. The tank did go a bit > > downhill a > > > > week or so ago, but I've got it back up to snuff - except for the > > patches of purple algae. > > > > Yours, > > Dora Smith > > Austin, TX > > tiggernut24@... <mailto:tiggernut24%40yahoo.com> > <mailto:tiggernut24%40yahoo.com> > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@... > <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com> > > <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com>> > > To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>> > > Sent: Friday, December 04, 2009 7:22 PM > > Subject: [Bulk] RE: [Bulk] RE: [AquaticLife] Problem with fish dying > > in my tank > > > > The filter media is fine. As usual, remove carbon when using any > > medication. > > > > If you do a Google Image search on 'goldfish gill flukes microscope', > > I'm sure you'll find plenty of good microscopic images of what they > > look like, for comparative purposes. > > > > You need to quit buying fish for a while until you get your tank's > > health situation in check. It sounds like you may have issues already > > and then adding fish that might have other issues is just compounding > > things. Any fish you get from the big box stores should definitely be > > quarantined before adding them to your display tank. I guess, if you > > were getting fish from an individual breeder who you know to have > > healthy tanks, maybe one might risk adding them directly to a display > > tank but certainly not fish bought from anywhere else. > > > > How old are/were your zebra danios? Remember to add zebra in front as > > there are many types of danios but I'm pretty sure you have zebra > > danios and the glofish are zebra danios as well. ZD's should live for > > around five years, according to this very extensive fish lifespan > > guide... > > > http://goldlenny.blogspot.com/2007/02/how-long-should-aquarium-fish-li > <http://goldlenny.blogspot.com/2007/02/how-long-should-aquarium-fish-li> > > ve.htm > > > <http://goldlenny.blogspot.com/2007/02/how-long-should-aquarium-fish-l > <http://goldlenny.blogspot.com/2007/02/how-long-should-aquarium-fish-l> > > ive.htm> l (OUCH.. I just sprained my shoulder patting myself on the > > back! ;-)) If yours aren't making it at least 3-4 years, then > > something is going wrong. I have also seen the bent spine and/or > > swimming nose up near the bottom as two signs when a ZD is on it's > > last leg... or would that be fin? But mine were close to the five year > > mark and did not respond to any treatments so I believe it was just > > old age that did them in. > > > > I haven't owned any ZD's in a while but I just did a Google search of > > 'zebra danio bent spine' and there are hundreds of hits in forums so > > apparently this is something that seems to be more common with more > > recently purchased ZD's since most of these forum posts are from 2007 > > to present. I only saw one on Robin's page that was from 2001. Out of > > the 1,300+ hits, over 583 are from the past year. I hope this isn't > > something like NTD that ravished Neon Tetras for a long time. Bent > > spine, from what I recall, is one of the symptoms of Fish TB, but is > > also attributed to stray voltage and birth defects as well but there's > > a chance your tank/fish could have Fish TB. > > Read up more on that before jumping to any conclusions about this > > contagious disease... even contagious to humans but not related to > > Human TB. > > > > Parasites can spread quickly and then once they infest a fish/tank, it > > causes the fish a lot of stress and then the fish's immune system > > falters and other minor bacterial issues, that the fish would normally > > have warded off, becomes more critical. > > > > I'm not sure of the best place to get PraziPro. It's owned by Hikari > > now, if I'm not mistaken, so it could be in a big-box pet store or you > > might have to buy it online. I know DrsFosterSmith.com sells it and > > I'm sure many other big online fish sites sell it. > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>> > (Links to any articles referenced in > > above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels > > and also under Archives by Year, Month) > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On Behalf Of Dora Smith > > Sent: Friday, December 04, 2009 5:59 PM > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > Subject: Re: [Bulk] RE: [AquaticLife] Problem with fish dying in my > > tank > > > > Lenny, while I treat the tank with this stuff, what do I do with the > > filter media? > > > > I do have a good microscope and all the fish disease books; if gill > > flukes are there you'd think I can find them. > > > > I have been steadily but slowly losing danios for awhile, but they > > were all new fish, and they were also glofish. I decided they just > > weren't destined to live. They also developed that crookedy spine > > thing that I'm in fact noticing lately in all danios at Petco. The > > newest danios from two days ago came from Petsmart. > > > > But would gill flukes strike all at once? > > > > One other thing; where's the best place to get praziwhatsit in a hurry? > > > > Yours, > > Dora Smith > > Austin, TX > > tiggernut24@... <mailto:tiggernut24%40yahoo.com> > <mailto:tiggernut24%40yahoo.com> > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@... > <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com> > > <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com>> > > To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>> > > Sent: Friday, December 04, 2009 5:53 PM > > Subject: [Bulk] RE: [AquaticLife] Problem with fish dying in my tank > > > > It sounds like you added new fish to the tank "a couple of days ago" > > and now > > you have health issues so more than likely, the new fish brought in a > > pathogen that your existing fish did not have an immunity. More than > > likely a parasite, possibly gill flukes, instead of bacterial since > > bacterial infections do not normally kill so quickly. As a general > > rule, there really is no such thing as immunity for parasites although > > some fish are more susceptible than others to parasitic issues. There > > are some theories out there about external parasites and some fish > > containing a chemical in their slime coat that deters external > > parasites. > > > > This is why we preach about quarantining new fish for several weeks so > > you can observe them for any possible health issues and while I do not > > "pre-treat" quarantined fish for most health issues unless I see > > something specific, I will and do use and recommend PraziPro > > (praziquantel) in the Q-tank since it's a very mild treatment and will > > kill off gill flukes and many other internal flatworms. Many goldfish > > from large breeders with big outdoor ponds will almost always have > > gill flukes. I believe praziquantel is the same drug used to deworm > > cats and dogs... and humans too in the U.S.A., if they get this types of > worms. > > http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Praziquantel > <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Praziquantel> > > <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Praziquantel > <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Praziquantel>> > > > > You could treat the tank with PraziPro while observing for other > symptoms. > > Get the smallest bottle you can find as you only need a little bit for > > treatment. I have a 4 oz. bottle that I've used a few times and still > > have more than 3 oz. left. It will probably expire before I ever use > > it all since I haven't been buying any new fish for quite a while > > since I downsized my MTS after Katrina. > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>> > (Links to any articles referenced in > > above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels > > and also under Archives by Year, Month) > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On Behalf Of Dora Smith > > Sent: Friday, December 04, 2009 5:10 PM > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > Subject: [AquaticLife] Problem with fish dying in my tank > > > > I've suddenly got a whole bunch of fish dying in my 20 gallon tank. A > > few days ago I removed a dead pristella tetra. Today suddenly it's > > three danios and a pristella tetra, and it's teh larger danios and not > > the two little ones I bought a couple of days ago. > > > > I haven't seen any signs of disease, except that one of the danios had > > red gills for awhile. > > > > The remaining fish are swimming around happily, and their appetite is > > good. > > > > The ammonia is close to 0, nitrites 0, nitrates between 5 and 10 ppm. > > > > What should I do? > > > > Four little corpses are sitting next to the tank, if there's anything > > in particular I should look for. > > > > Yours, > > Dora Smith > > Austin, TX > > tiggernut24@... <mailto:tiggernut24%40yahoo.com> > <mailto:tiggernut24%40yahoo.com> > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 44926	From: sevenspringss@wmconnect.com	Date: 12/5/2009
Subject: Re: Problem with fish dying in my tank

Amber, For Blue-Green Algae, you can use Erythromycin (Maracyn) -- at 1 Tablet for 25 Gallons (that's even less than 1/2 strength -- normally dosed at 1 Tab per 10 gallons). Use this every other day for 5 treatments. I don't think that will harm your snails; maybe someone else would know better on that issue. Ray [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 44927	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 12/5/2009
Subject: Re: questions about Yoyo loaches or other small snail eating loaches

You already have two Angelfish in that 55G... right? You have to be careful about bioload since most loaches need to be in shoals of five or more. How many times have the Angel's mated and eaten their eggs? Maybe you could have a divider ready for next time and separate the adults from the eggs as soon as they lay the eggs... if you want them to live. Will your LFS buy Angelfish from you? Here's what Mongabay says about Suggested Companions for P. scalare... (Loaches - Botia, et al, aren't on the list... Sorry!) SC: Catfish (Armored, Pimelodids, Doradids, Loricarids), characins (Headstanders, hatchetfish, larger schooling tetras), cichlids (Angelfish, Discus, Waroo, Acaras, Ram, Eartheaters), gouramis, livebearers that can tolerate neutral water conditions. Maybe a school of Tetras and a Clown Pleco for additional algae control to help the Mystery Snails? Or a pair of pretty Rams who would take the other end of the tank for their breeding area? I think I've read that it's best to get one male and several females until he decides which one he wants... God, I wish I was a fish! LOL The leftover females could populate your 10G tanks as well... or sell them to the LFS. I'm surprised to see Gourami's on the list so that leaves you plenty of options also but the non-dwarf's get pretty big. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Amber Berglund Sent: Saturday, December 05, 2009 2:37 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] questions about Yoyo loaches or other small snail eating loaches. So in other words they would eat any snail, even my big ones ;) LOL. That's all I needed to know about whether I should get them for that tank or not. I'm considering them for the Angelfish tank since they still haven't had any babies (keep eating their eggs, oh well). Should I get semi-aggressive loaches if I put them in that tank? I suppose more aggressive ones might hurt the Angel's. Amber Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > > Well, worse case if you forget to take the food out is that the snails > will eat it all and reproduce even more since most snails are > opportunistic breeders. That should be enough to make you remember to > take it out the next morning. > > Or, you could tie a string around your finger when you put the leaf in > at night and when you wake up in the morning with your finger swollen > because you tied the string too tight, that will also remind you about > the leaf of lettuce or spinach. > > Of course, be careful if your fish eat the spinach as it could result > in Popeye! Arrr! Arrr! Or should that be A-gah-gah-gah-gah-gah-gah :-D > http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KYK3Fz6pXnA > <http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KYK3Fz6pXnA> > > I'm not sure how effective loaches are on MTS since their shells are > so hard and they have trap doors. I don't think they'll discriminate > against eating your Mystery Snails, regardless of size. > > If you get snail eating loaches for the tank, don't plan on keeping > snails in that tank any longer. > > There are also these Assassin Snails, Anentome helena, > http://forums.loaches.com/viewtopic.php?t=12094&postdays=0&postorder=a > sc&sta > <http://forums.loaches.com/viewtopic.php?t=12094&postdays=0&postorder= > asc&sta> rt=0 (five page thread) but they would also go after your > Mystery Snails. > Of course, you could always move the Assassin Snails to one of your > 10G's after they do their thing and then put your Mystery Snails back > into the 125G. Supposedly, Assassin Snails do not breed much You > couldn't do this with the YoYo's or any other loaches. On a regular > basis, and when you get too many Mystery Snails, throw some into the > 10G Assassin Snail tank for them to eat. > > Check eBay and Aquabid for sellers of these snails. > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> (Links to any articles referenced in > above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels > and also under Archives by Year, Month) > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On Behalf Of Amber Berglund > Sent: Saturday, December 05, 2009 1:40 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Subject: [AquaticLife] questions about Yoyo loaches or other small > snail eating loaches. > > I was considering picking up some yoyo loaches at some point for my > 125 gallon tank, but I have a concern or two first. I'm looking for a > smaller loach that eats smaller pond/pest snails but isn't aggressive > at the same time, so if there's a better one than yoyo loaches please > feel free to let me know, LOL. My biggest concern is this; Do I need > to take all my adult mystery snails out of the tank when I add any > snail eating loaches, or are my adult size mystery snails too big for > them to kill and eat? My goal is to get rid of my ramshorn snails, a > good portion of the MTS, and some small pond snails (couldn't find any > other name for them when searching for them on google). If I put > something in the tank I may very well forget to take it out, so I > haven't tried the lettuce method yet, I didn't want to kill my fish by > forgetting food in the tank on accident. > > Amber > > ------------------------------------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the home page. Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com to receive the digest, which includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com for the No E-Mail option where you will still be able to read messages on the group and post replies. Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com to receive individual e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 44928	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 12/5/2009
Subject: Please read - Important Data Security Notice from Practical Fishkeep

Since I know many out here also frequent visitors to PFK's site, I'm not sure how many are registered users of their site and forums but if you are, you may not have gotten this so I wanted to alert folks. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: Practical Fishkeeping [mailto:PFK@...] Sent: Friday, December 04, 2009 9:41 AM To: Lenny Subject: Please read - Important Data Security Notice from Practical Fishkeeping Dear Practical Fishkeeping website user Why are we contacting you? You have received this message because you are a registered user of our website practicalfishkeeping.co.uk. We have been made aware that hackers have breached our website security. This is a criminal offence, and information on our register about our readers (usernames, passwords, email addresses, postal addresses and in some cases telephone numbers) may have been viewed or taken. What are we doing? We have taken immediate action to preserve the privacy and security of the data held by us, and are doing all we can to investigate exactly what has happened and to ensure that it cannot happen again. We have notified the Police and the Information Commissioner. Practicalfishkeeping.co.uk is currently offline until security has been restored. You will be notified as soon as Practicalfishkeeping.co.uk is live again, and we are sincerely sorry for any inconvenience, but the security of our users is of paramount importance to us. What should you do? It is possible that the hackers might seek to use the information they have to commit identity fraud. You should be extra vigilant about checking for unexpected activity on your credit cards or bank accounts, and follow Home Office advice when using the Internet: see http://links.specialist.bauermedia.co.uk/ctt?kn=2&m=34464804&r=Mzg0NjA1NDg0N gS2&b=2&j=NjE5MTA4MzYS1&mt=1&rt=0. If you used your password for practicalfishkeeping.co.uk for other websites, you should change those passwords. How can I contact you? Further information please contact matt.clarke@... It only remains for me to say how very sorry I am about what is a very upsetting and disruptive situation for us all. Matt Clarke Editor-in-Chief Bauer Consumer Media Limited Registered number / 01176085 (England) Registered Office / 21 Holborn Viaduct, London, EC1A 2DY

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 44929	From: Dora Smith	Date: 12/5/2009
Subject: Re: [Bulk] Re: [AquaticLife] Problem with fish dying in my tank

I took photos, and tomorrow when I clean the tank, I'll get a sample and look under the microscope. Mine is deep purple, not green. I found pictures of blue-green algae the same color online, but they always had it grwoing on their gravel, and I have it growing on the glass. Tehre is even a partial patch of it (must have done an nicomplete job of scraping it off) on the side away from the window. It was originally growing on the limestone rocks I got from the creek and kept in plastic tubs out back to feed the algae eaters. It wasn't killing them. Mind you, it was green and black-brown stuff that I wanted. Yours, Dora Smith Austin, TX tiggernut24@... ----- Original Message ----- From: "Amber Berglund" <arberglund@...> To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Saturday, December 05, 2009 1:45 PM Subject: [Bulk] Re: [AquaticLife] Problem with fish dying in my tank > Okay after looking for lots of pics on BGA I'm pretty sure I have a case > of it in my 125 gallon tank, and that's probably what is killing my > snails randomly. > I found this pic on the wiki that looks exactly like what I have in my > 125 gallon tank (in the back behind the plants). What should I do to get > rid of it? > http://theaquariumwiki.com/BGA > The wiki says hydrogen peroxide, but I will have to remove all my > mystery snails first, as it will harm them. > > Amber > > Dora Smith wrote: >> >> I can see I'm working on that one tomorrow. >> >> Yours, >> Dora Smith >> Austin, TX >> tiggernut24@... <mailto:tiggernut24%40yahoo.com> >> >> ----- Original Message ----- >> From: "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@... >> <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com>> >> To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>> >> Sent: Friday, December 04, 2009 9:18 PM >> Subject: [Bulk] RE: [Bulk] RE: [Bulk] RE: [AquaticLife] Problem with fish >> dying in my tank >> >> Purple Algae??? I've read that BBA (Black Brush Algae - Audouinella sp.) >> can be in the red to brown range which might result in a purple looking >> color, but purple is not very common from all I've read over the years. >> >> BGA (Blue Green Algae), which is actually Cyanobacteria can also be in >> various colorations from blue-green to dark green and almost black so I'm >> guessing a purple could develop. >> >> The BBA isn't harmful but BGA can be harmful. >> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cyanobacteria#Health_risks >> <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cyanobacteria#Health_risks> >> >> Lenny Vasbinder >> Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> >> (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right >> side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com >> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> >> [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com >> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On >> Behalf Of Dora Smith >> Sent: Friday, December 04, 2009 8:12 PM >> To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> >> Subject: Re: [Bulk] RE: [Bulk] RE: [AquaticLife] Problem with fish >> dying in >> my tank >> >> Speaking of issues, I've got some patches of purple algae on the walls >> of my >> >> aquarium. Is this harmful? They probably came from teh algae rocks I >> used to feed my algae eaters, before I gave up on them. >> >> The water quality seems to be fine. No ammonia, no nitrites, and the >> nitrates are between 5 and 10 ppwhatever. The tank did go a bit downhill >> a >> >> week or so ago, but I've got it back up to snuff - except for the >> patches of >> purple algae. >> >> Yours, >> Dora Smith >> Austin, TX >> tiggernut24@... <mailto:tiggernut24%40yahoo.com> >> >> ----- Original Message ----- >> From: "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@... >> <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com>> >> To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>> >> Sent: Friday, December 04, 2009 7:22 PM >> Subject: [Bulk] RE: [Bulk] RE: [AquaticLife] Problem with fish dying in >> my >> tank >> >> The filter media is fine. As usual, remove carbon when using any >> medication. >> >> If you do a Google Image search on 'goldfish gill flukes microscope', I'm >> sure you'll find plenty of good microscopic images of what they look >> like, >> for comparative purposes. >> >> You need to quit buying fish for a while until you get your tank's health >> situation in check. It sounds like you may have issues already and then >> adding fish that might have other issues is just compounding things. Any >> fish you get from the big box stores should definitely be quarantined >> before >> adding them to your display tank. I guess, if you were getting fish >> from an >> individual breeder who you know to have healthy tanks, maybe one might >> risk >> adding them directly to a display tank but certainly not fish bought from >> anywhere else. >> >> How old are/were your zebra danios? Remember to add zebra in front as >> there >> are many types of danios but I'm pretty sure you have zebra danios and >> the >> glofish are zebra danios as well. ZD's should live for around five years, >> according to this very extensive fish lifespan guide... >> http://goldlenny.blogspot.com/2007/02/how-long-should-aquarium-fish-live.htm >> <http://goldlenny.blogspot.com/2007/02/how-long-should-aquarium-fish-live.htm> >> l (OUCH.. I just sprained my shoulder patting myself on the back! ;-)) If >> yours aren't making it at least 3-4 years, then something is going >> wrong. I >> have also seen the bent spine and/or swimming nose up near the bottom >> as two >> signs when a ZD is on it's last leg... or would that be fin? But mine >> were >> close to the five year mark and did not respond to any treatments so I >> believe it was just old age that did them in. >> >> I haven't owned any ZD's in a while but I just did a Google search of >> 'zebra >> danio bent spine' and there are hundreds of hits in forums so apparently >> this is something that seems to be more common with more recently >> purchased >> ZD's since most of these forum posts are from 2007 to present. I only saw >> one on Robin's page that was from 2001. Out of the 1,300+ hits, over 583 >> are from the past year. I hope this isn't something like NTD that >> ravished >> Neon Tetras for a long time. Bent spine, from what I recall, is one of >> the >> symptoms of Fish TB, but is also attributed to stray voltage and birth >> defects as well but there's a chance your tank/fish could have Fish TB. >> Read up more on that before jumping to any conclusions about this >> contagious >> disease... even contagious to humans but not related to Human TB. >> >> Parasites can spread quickly and then once they infest a fish/tank, it >> causes the fish a lot of stress and then the fish's immune system falters >> and other minor bacterial issues, that the fish would normally have >> warded >> off, becomes more critical. >> >> I'm not sure of the best place to get PraziPro. It's owned by Hikari now, >> if I'm not mistaken, so it could be in a big-box pet store or you >> might have >> to buy it online. I know DrsFosterSmith.com sells it and I'm sure many >> other big online fish sites sell it. >> >> Lenny Vasbinder >> Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com >> <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> (Links to any articles referenced >> in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under >> Labels and >> also under Archives by Year, Month) >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com >> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> >> [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com >> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On >> Behalf Of Dora Smith >> Sent: Friday, December 04, 2009 5:59 PM >> To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> >> Subject: Re: [Bulk] RE: [AquaticLife] Problem with fish dying in my tank >> >> Lenny, while I treat the tank with this stuff, what do I do with the >> filter >> media? >> >> I do have a good microscope and all the fish disease books; if gill >> flukes >> are there you'd think I can find them. >> >> I have been steadily but slowly losing danios for awhile, but they >> were all >> new fish, and they were also glofish. I decided they just weren't >> destined >> to live. They also developed that crookedy spine thing that I'm in fact >> noticing lately in all danios at Petco. The newest danios from two days >> ago came from Petsmart. >> >> But would gill flukes strike all at once? >> >> One other thing; where's the best place to get praziwhatsit in a hurry? >> >> Yours, >> Dora Smith >> Austin, TX >> tiggernut24@... <mailto:tiggernut24%40yahoo.com> >> >> ----- Original Message ----- >> From: "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@... >> <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com>> >> To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>> >> Sent: Friday, December 04, 2009 5:53 PM >> Subject: [Bulk] RE: [AquaticLife] Problem with fish dying in my tank >> >> It sounds like you added new fish to the tank "a couple of days ago" >> and now >> you have health issues so more than likely, the new fish brought in a >> pathogen that your existing fish did not have an immunity. More than >> likely >> a parasite, possibly gill flukes, instead of bacterial since bacterial >> infections do not normally kill so quickly. As a general rule, there >> really >> is no such thing as immunity for parasites although some fish are more >> susceptible than others to parasitic issues. There are some theories out >> there about external parasites and some fish containing a chemical in >> their >> slime coat that deters external parasites. >> >> This is why we preach about quarantining new fish for several weeks so >> you >> can observe them for any possible health issues and while I do not >> "pre-treat" quarantined fish for most health issues unless I see >> something >> specific, I will and do use and recommend PraziPro (praziquantel) in the >> Q-tank since it's a very mild treatment and will kill off gill flukes and >> many other internal flatworms. Many goldfish from large breeders with big >> outdoor ponds will almost always have gill flukes. I believe praziquantel >> is the same drug used to deworm cats and dogs... and humans too in the >> U.S.A., if they get this types of worms. >> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Praziquantel >> <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Praziquantel> >> >> You could treat the tank with PraziPro while observing for other >> symptoms. >> Get the smallest bottle you can find as you only need a little bit for >> treatment. I have a 4 oz. bottle that I've used a few times and still >> have >> more than 3 oz. left. It will probably expire before I ever use it all >> since I haven't been buying any new fish for quite a while since I >> downsized >> my MTS after Katrina. >> >> Lenny Vasbinder >> Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com >> <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> (Links to any articles referenced >> in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under >> Labels and >> also under Archives by Year, Month) >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com >> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> >> [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com >> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On >> Behalf Of Dora Smith >> Sent: Friday, December 04, 2009 5:10 PM >> To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> >> Subject: [AquaticLife] Problem with fish dying in my tank >> >> I've suddenly got a whole bunch of fish dying in my 20 gallon tank. A few >> days ago I removed a dead pristella tetra. Today suddenly it's three >> danios and a pristella tetra, and it's teh larger danios and not the two >> little ones I bought a couple of days ago. >> >> I haven't seen any signs of disease, except that one of the danios had >> red >> gills for awhile. >> >> The remaining fish are swimming around happily, and their appetite is >> good. >> >> The ammonia is close to 0, nitrites 0, nitrates between 5 and 10 ppm. >> >> What should I do? >> >> Four little corpses are sitting next to the tank, if there's anything in >> particular I should look for. >> >> Yours, >> Dora Smith >> Austin, TX >> tiggernut24@... <mailto:tiggernut24%40yahoo.com> >> >> ------------------------------------ >> >> Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank >> You. >> ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> >> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT >> important to >> the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the >> SUBJECT >> LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- >> <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. >> We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. >> >> If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of unsubscribing, >> you >> can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My Membership" on >> the >> home page. >> >> Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com >> <mailto:aquaticlife-digest%40yahoogroups.com> to receive the digest, >> which >> includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email >> >> Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com >> <mailto:aquaticlife-nomail%40yahoogroups.com> for the No E-Mail option >> where >> you will still be able to read messages on the group and post replies. >> >> Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com >> <mailto:aquaticlife-normal%40yahoogroups.com> to receive individual >> e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links >> >> > > > ------------------------------------ > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. > ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> > PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to > the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the > SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- > <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. > > If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of unsubscribing, you > can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the > home page. > > Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com to receive the digest, which > includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email > > Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com for the No E-Mail option where > you will still be able to read messages on the group and post replies. > > Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com to receive individual > e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links > > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 44930	From: Dora Smith	Date: 12/5/2009
Subject: Re: [Bulk] RE: [AquaticLife] Problem with fish dying in my tank

Do a job on which - the purple algae, or the possible flukes? I think so will a more careful cleaning. I left some patches behind last time. It is going to be a week and a half before I can buy that other stuff. What other stuff world work? That isn't even one of the things my books recommend for flukes. What should I do with my filters while I treat the tank? Yours, Dora Smith Austin, TX tiggernut24@... ----- Original Message ----- From: "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@...> To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Saturday, December 05, 2009 2:44 PM Subject: [Bulk] RE: [AquaticLife] Problem with fish dying in my tank Erythromycin or other gram-positive antibiotic will do the job but that will also do a job on your nitrifying bacteria so remove your filters while treating with Erythro. That Wiki page warns about how bacteria can develop a resistance to antibiotics if not used properly so you would have to dose the tank for a full 5-10 days to be sure you've killed off all the BGA in the tank. BGA - Cyanobacteria is more like a slime and pictures 2 and 3 on that Wiki page shows it better. It can also grow as slimy sheets on the glass also. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Amber Berglund Sent: Saturday, December 05, 2009 1:46 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Problem with fish dying in my tank Okay after looking for lots of pics on BGA I'm pretty sure I have a case of it in my 125 gallon tank, and that's probably what is killing my snails randomly. I found this pic on the wiki that looks exactly like what I have in my 125 gallon tank (in the back behind the plants). What should I do to get rid of it? http://theaquariumwiki.com/BGA The wiki says hydrogen peroxide, but I will have to remove all my mystery snails first, as it will harm them. Amber Dora Smith wrote: > > I can see I'm working on that one tomorrow. > > Yours, > Dora Smith > Austin, TX > tiggernut24@... <mailto:tiggernut24%40yahoo.com> > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@... > <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com>> > To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>> > Sent: Friday, December 04, 2009 9:18 PM > Subject: [Bulk] RE: [Bulk] RE: [Bulk] RE: [AquaticLife] Problem with > fish dying in my tank > > Purple Algae??? I've read that BBA (Black Brush Algae - Audouinella > sp.) can be in the red to brown range which might result in a purple > looking color, but purple is not very common from all I've read over the years. > > BGA (Blue Green Algae), which is actually Cyanobacteria can also be in > various colorations from blue-green to dark green and almost black so > I'm guessing a purple could develop. > > The BBA isn't harmful but BGA can be harmful. > http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cyanobacteria#Health_risks > <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cyanobacteria#Health_risks> > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> (Links to any articles referenced in > above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels > and also under Archives by Year, Month) > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On Behalf Of Dora Smith > Sent: Friday, December 04, 2009 8:12 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Subject: Re: [Bulk] RE: [Bulk] RE: [AquaticLife] Problem with fish > dying in my tank > > Speaking of issues, I've got some patches of purple algae on the walls > of my > > aquarium. Is this harmful? They probably came from teh algae rocks I > used to feed my algae eaters, before I gave up on them. > > The water quality seems to be fine. No ammonia, no nitrites, and the > nitrates are between 5 and 10 ppwhatever. The tank did go a bit > downhill a > > week or so ago, but I've got it back up to snuff - except for the > patches of purple algae. > > Yours, > Dora Smith > Austin, TX > tiggernut24@... <mailto:tiggernut24%40yahoo.com> > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@... > <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com>> > To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>> > Sent: Friday, December 04, 2009 7:22 PM > Subject: [Bulk] RE: [Bulk] RE: [AquaticLife] Problem with fish dying > in my tank > > The filter media is fine. As usual, remove carbon when using any > medication. > > If you do a Google Image search on 'goldfish gill flukes microscope', > I'm sure you'll find plenty of good microscopic images of what they > look like, for comparative purposes. > > You need to quit buying fish for a while until you get your tank's > health situation in check. It sounds like you may have issues already > and then adding fish that might have other issues is just compounding > things. Any fish you get from the big box stores should definitely be > quarantined before adding them to your display tank. I guess, if you > were getting fish from an individual breeder who you know to have > healthy tanks, maybe one might risk adding them directly to a display > tank but certainly not fish bought from anywhere else. > > How old are/were your zebra danios? Remember to add zebra in front as > there are many types of danios but I'm pretty sure you have zebra > danios and the glofish are zebra danios as well. ZD's should live for > around five years, according to this very extensive fish lifespan > guide... > http://goldlenny.blogspot.com/2007/02/how-long-should-aquarium-fish-li > ve.htm > <http://goldlenny.blogspot.com/2007/02/how-long-should-aquarium-fish-l > ive.htm> l (OUCH.. I just sprained my shoulder patting myself on the > back! ;-)) If yours aren't making it at least 3-4 years, then > something is going wrong. I have also seen the bent spine and/or > swimming nose up near the bottom as two signs when a ZD is on it's > last leg... or would that be fin? But mine were close to the five year > mark and did not respond to any treatments so I believe it was just > old age that did them in. > > I haven't owned any ZD's in a while but I just did a Google search of > 'zebra danio bent spine' and there are hundreds of hits in forums so > apparently this is something that seems to be more common with more > recently purchased ZD's since most of these forum posts are from 2007 > to present. I only saw one on Robin's page that was from 2001. Out of > the 1,300+ hits, over 583 are from the past year. I hope this isn't > something like NTD that ravished Neon Tetras for a long time. Bent > spine, from what I recall, is one of the symptoms of Fish TB, but is > also attributed to stray voltage and birth defects as well but there's > a chance your tank/fish could have Fish TB. > Read up more on that before jumping to any conclusions about this > contagious disease... even contagious to humans but not related to > Human TB. > > Parasites can spread quickly and then once they infest a fish/tank, it > causes the fish a lot of stress and then the fish's immune system > falters and other minor bacterial issues, that the fish would normally > have warded off, becomes more critical. > > I'm not sure of the best place to get PraziPro. It's owned by Hikari > now, if I'm not mistaken, so it could be in a big-box pet store or you > might have to buy it online. I know DrsFosterSmith.com sells it and > I'm sure many other big online fish sites sell it. > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> (Links to any articles referenced in > above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels > and also under Archives by Year, Month) > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On Behalf Of Dora Smith > Sent: Friday, December 04, 2009 5:59 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Subject: Re: [Bulk] RE: [AquaticLife] Problem with fish dying in my > tank > > Lenny, while I treat the tank with this stuff, what do I do with the > filter media? > > I do have a good microscope and all the fish disease books; if gill > flukes are there you'd think I can find them. > > I have been steadily but slowly losing danios for awhile, but they > were all new fish, and they were also glofish. I decided they just > weren't destined to live. They also developed that crookedy spine > thing that I'm in fact noticing lately in all danios at Petco. The > newest danios from two days ago came from Petsmart. > > But would gill flukes strike all at once? > > One other thing; where's the best place to get praziwhatsit in a hurry? > > Yours, > Dora Smith > Austin, TX > tiggernut24@... <mailto:tiggernut24%40yahoo.com> > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@... > <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com>> > To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>> > Sent: Friday, December 04, 2009 5:53 PM > Subject: [Bulk] RE: [AquaticLife] Problem with fish dying in my tank > > It sounds like you added new fish to the tank "a couple of days ago" > and now > you have health issues so more than likely, the new fish brought in a > pathogen that your existing fish did not have an immunity. More than > likely a parasite, possibly gill flukes, instead of bacterial since > bacterial infections do not normally kill so quickly. As a general > rule, there really is no such thing as immunity for parasites although > some fish are more susceptible than others to parasitic issues. There > are some theories out there about external parasites and some fish > containing a chemical in their slime coat that deters external > parasites. > > This is why we preach about quarantining new fish for several weeks so > you can observe them for any possible health issues and while I do not > "pre-treat" quarantined fish for most health issues unless I see > something specific, I will and do use and recommend PraziPro > (praziquantel) in the Q-tank since it's a very mild treatment and will > kill off gill flukes and many other internal flatworms. Many goldfish > from large breeders with big outdoor ponds will almost always have > gill flukes. I believe praziquantel is the same drug used to deworm > cats and dogs... and humans too in the U.S.A., if they get this types of worms. > http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Praziquantel > <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Praziquantel> > > You could treat the tank with PraziPro while observing for other symptoms. > Get the smallest bottle you can find as you only need a little bit for > treatment. I have a 4 oz. bottle that I've used a few times and still > have more than 3 oz. left. It will probably expire before I ever use > it all since I haven't been buying any new fish for quite a while > since I downsized my MTS after Katrina. > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> (Links to any articles referenced in > above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels > and also under Archives by Year, Month) > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On Behalf Of Dora Smith > Sent: Friday, December 04, 2009 5:10 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Subject: [AquaticLife] Problem with fish dying in my tank > > I've suddenly got a whole bunch of fish dying in my 20 gallon tank. A > few days ago I removed a dead pristella tetra. Today suddenly it's > three danios and a pristella tetra, and it's teh larger danios and not > the two little ones I bought a couple of days ago. > > I haven't seen any signs of disease, except that one of the danios had > red gills for awhile. > > The remaining fish are swimming around happily, and their appetite is > good. > > The ammonia is close to 0, nitrites 0, nitrates between 5 and 10 ppm. > > What should I do? > > Four little corpses are sitting next to the tank, if there's anything > in particular I should look for. > > Yours, > Dora Smith > Austin, TX > tiggernut24@... <mailto:tiggernut24%40yahoo.com> ------------------------------------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the home page. Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com to receive the digest, which includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com for the No E-Mail option where you will still be able to read messages on the group and post replies. Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com to receive individual e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 44931	From: Dora Smith	Date: 12/5/2009
Subject: Re: [Bulk] [AquaticLife] Please read - Important Data Security Notic

They only have usernames, e-mail addresses and passwords, and in some cases addresses and phone numbers, right? They don't sell anything? I wouldn't ahve bought anything from the UK, so I don't think I have to worry. And I'm one of those places that most web sites think I was born on January 1. None of their business what my date of birth is. Sometimes they even learn that I live at 14 Cherry Tree Lane. Yours, Dora Smith Austin, TX tiggernut24@... ----- Original Message ----- From: "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@...> To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Saturday, December 05, 2009 3:23 PM Subject: [Bulk] [AquaticLife] Please read - Important Data Security Notice from Practical Fishkeeping Since I know many out here also frequent visitors to PFK's site, I'm not sure how many are registered users of their site and forums but if you are, you may not have gotten this so I wanted to alert folks. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: Practical Fishkeeping [mailto:PFK@...] Sent: Friday, December 04, 2009 9:41 AM To: Lenny Subject: Please read - Important Data Security Notice from Practical Fishkeeping Dear Practical Fishkeeping website user Why are we contacting you? You have received this message because you are a registered user of our website practicalfishkeeping.co.uk. We have been made aware that hackers have breached our website security. This is a criminal offence, and information on our register about our readers (usernames, passwords, email addresses, postal addresses and in some cases telephone numbers) may have been viewed or taken. What are we doing? We have taken immediate action to preserve the privacy and security of the data held by us, and are doing all we can to investigate exactly what has happened and to ensure that it cannot happen again. We have notified the Police and the Information Commissioner. Practicalfishkeeping.co.uk is currently offline until security has been restored. You will be notified as soon as Practicalfishkeeping.co.uk is live again, and we are sincerely sorry for any inconvenience, but the security of our users is of paramount importance to us. What should you do? It is possible that the hackers might seek to use the information they have to commit identity fraud. You should be extra vigilant about checking for unexpected activity on your credit cards or bank accounts, and follow Home Office advice when using the Internet: see http://links.specialist.bauermedia.co.uk/ctt?kn=2&m=34464804&r=Mzg0NjA1NDg0N gS2&b=2&j=NjE5MTA4MzYS1&mt=1&rt=0. If you used your password for practicalfishkeeping.co.uk for other websites, you should change those passwords. How can I contact you? Further information please contact matt.clarke@... It only remains for me to say how very sorry I am about what is a very upsetting and disruptive situation for us all. Matt Clarke Editor-in-Chief Bauer Consumer Media Limited Registered number / 01176085 (England) Registered Office / 21 Holborn Viaduct, London, EC1A 2DY ------------------------------------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the home page. Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com to receive the digest, which includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com for the No E-Mail option where you will still be able to read messages on the group and post replies. Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com to receive individual e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 44932	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 12/5/2009
Subject: Re: [Bulk] RE: [AquaticLife] Problem with fish dying in my tank

Read what I was answering by reading the post below my answer. It was not a post by you that I was answering. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Dora Smith Sent: Saturday, December 05, 2009 3:42 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [Bulk] RE: [AquaticLife] Problem with fish dying in my tank Do a job on which - the purple algae, or the possible flukes? I think so will a more careful cleaning. I left some patches behind last time. It is going to be a week and a half before I can buy that other stuff. What other stuff world work? That isn't even one of the things my books recommend for flukes. What should I do with my filters while I treat the tank? Yours, Dora Smith Austin, TX tiggernut24@... ----- Original Message ----- From: "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@...> To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Saturday, December 05, 2009 2:44 PM Subject: [Bulk] RE: [AquaticLife] Problem with fish dying in my tank Erythromycin or other gram-positive antibiotic will do the job but that will also do a job on your nitrifying bacteria so remove your filters while treating with Erythro. That Wiki page warns about how bacteria can develop a resistance to antibiotics if not used properly so you would have to dose the tank for a full 5-10 days to be sure you've killed off all the BGA in the tank. BGA - Cyanobacteria is more like a slime and pictures 2 and 3 on that Wiki page shows it better. It can also grow as slimy sheets on the glass also. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Amber Berglund Sent: Saturday, December 05, 2009 1:46 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Problem with fish dying in my tank Okay after looking for lots of pics on BGA I'm pretty sure I have a case of it in my 125 gallon tank, and that's probably what is killing my snails randomly. I found this pic on the wiki that looks exactly like what I have in my 125 gallon tank (in the back behind the plants). What should I do to get rid of it? http://theaquariumwiki.com/BGA The wiki says hydrogen peroxide, but I will have to remove all my mystery snails first, as it will harm them. Amber Dora Smith wrote: > > I can see I'm working on that one tomorrow. > > Yours, > Dora Smith > Austin, TX > tiggernut24@... <mailto:tiggernut24%40yahoo.com> > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@... > <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com>> > To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>> > Sent: Friday, December 04, 2009 9:18 PM > Subject: [Bulk] RE: [Bulk] RE: [Bulk] RE: [AquaticLife] Problem with > fish dying in my tank > > Purple Algae??? I've read that BBA (Black Brush Algae - Audouinella > sp.) can be in the red to brown range which might result in a purple > looking color, but purple is not very common from all I've read over the years. > > BGA (Blue Green Algae), which is actually Cyanobacteria can also be in > various colorations from blue-green to dark green and almost black so > I'm guessing a purple could develop. > > The BBA isn't harmful but BGA can be harmful. > http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cyanobacteria#Health_risks > <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cyanobacteria#Health_risks> > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> (Links to any articles referenced in > above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels > and also under Archives by Year, Month) > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On Behalf Of Dora Smith > Sent: Friday, December 04, 2009 8:12 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Subject: Re: [Bulk] RE: [Bulk] RE: [AquaticLife] Problem with fish > dying in my tank > > Speaking of issues, I've got some patches of purple algae on the walls > of my > > aquarium. Is this harmful? They probably came from teh algae rocks I > used to feed my algae eaters, before I gave up on them. > > The water quality seems to be fine. No ammonia, no nitrites, and the > nitrates are between 5 and 10 ppwhatever. The tank did go a bit > downhill a > > week or so ago, but I've got it back up to snuff - except for the > patches of purple algae. > > Yours, > Dora Smith > Austin, TX > tiggernut24@... <mailto:tiggernut24%40yahoo.com> > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@... > <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com>> > To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>> > Sent: Friday, December 04, 2009 7:22 PM > Subject: [Bulk] RE: [Bulk] RE: [AquaticLife] Problem with fish dying > in my tank > > The filter media is fine. As usual, remove carbon when using any > medication. > > If you do a Google Image search on 'goldfish gill flukes microscope', > I'm sure you'll find plenty of good microscopic images of what they > look like, for comparative purposes. > > You need to quit buying fish for a while until you get your tank's > health situation in check. It sounds like you may have issues already > and then adding fish that might have other issues is just compounding > things. Any fish you get from the big box stores should definitely be > quarantined before adding them to your display tank. I guess, if you > were getting fish from an individual breeder who you know to have > healthy tanks, maybe one might risk adding them directly to a display > tank but certainly not fish bought from anywhere else. > > How old are/were your zebra danios? Remember to add zebra in front as > there are many types of danios but I'm pretty sure you have zebra > danios and the glofish are zebra danios as well. ZD's should live for > around five years, according to this very extensive fish lifespan > guide... > http://goldlenny.blogspot.com/2007/02/how-long-should-aquarium-fish-li > ve.htm > <http://goldlenny.blogspot.com/2007/02/how-long-should-aquarium-fish-l > ive.htm> l (OUCH.. I just sprained my shoulder patting myself on the > back! ;-)) If yours aren't making it at least 3-4 years, then > something is going wrong. I have also seen the bent spine and/or > swimming nose up near the bottom as two signs when a ZD is on it's > last leg... or would that be fin? But mine were close to the five year > mark and did not respond to any treatments so I believe it was just > old age that did them in. > > I haven't owned any ZD's in a while but I just did a Google search of > 'zebra danio bent spine' and there are hundreds of hits in forums so > apparently this is something that seems to be more common with more > recently purchased ZD's since most of these forum posts are from 2007 > to present. I only saw one on Robin's page that was from 2001. Out of > the 1,300+ hits, over 583 are from the past year. I hope this isn't > something like NTD that ravished Neon Tetras for a long time. Bent > spine, from what I recall, is one of the symptoms of Fish TB, but is > also attributed to stray voltage and birth defects as well but there's > a chance your tank/fish could have Fish TB. > Read up more on that before jumping to any conclusions about this > contagious disease... even contagious to humans but not related to > Human TB. > > Parasites can spread quickly and then once they infest a fish/tank, it > causes the fish a lot of stress and then the fish's immune system > falters and other minor bacterial issues, that the fish would normally > have warded off, becomes more critical. > > I'm not sure of the best place to get PraziPro. It's owned by Hikari > now, if I'm not mistaken, so it could be in a big-box pet store or you > might have to buy it online. I know DrsFosterSmith.com sells it and > I'm sure many other big online fish sites sell it. > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> (Links to any articles referenced in > above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels > and also under Archives by Year, Month) > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On Behalf Of Dora Smith > Sent: Friday, December 04, 2009 5:59 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Subject: Re: [Bulk] RE: [AquaticLife] Problem with fish dying in my > tank > > Lenny, while I treat the tank with this stuff, what do I do with the > filter media? > > I do have a good microscope and all the fish disease books; if gill > flukes are there you'd think I can find them. > > I have been steadily but slowly losing danios for awhile, but they > were all new fish, and they were also glofish. I decided they just > weren't destined to live. They also developed that crookedy spine > thing that I'm in fact noticing lately in all danios at Petco. The > newest danios from two days ago came from Petsmart. > > But would gill flukes strike all at once? > > One other thing; where's the best place to get praziwhatsit in a hurry? > > Yours, > Dora Smith > Austin, TX > tiggernut24@... <mailto:tiggernut24%40yahoo.com> > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@... > <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com>> > To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>> > Sent: Friday, December 04, 2009 5:53 PM > Subject: [Bulk] RE: [AquaticLife] Problem with fish dying in my tank > > It sounds like you added new fish to the tank "a couple of days ago" > and now > you have health issues so more than likely, the new fish brought in a > pathogen that your existing fish did not have an immunity. More than > likely a parasite, possibly gill flukes, instead of bacterial since > bacterial infections do not normally kill so quickly. As a general > rule, there really is no such thing as immunity for parasites although > some fish are more susceptible than others to parasitic issues. There > are some theories out there about external parasites and some fish > containing a chemical in their slime coat that deters external > parasites. > > This is why we preach about quarantining new fish for several weeks so > you can observe them for any possible health issues and while I do not > "pre-treat" quarantined fish for most health issues unless I see > something specific, I will and do use and recommend PraziPro > (praziquantel) in the Q-tank since it's a very mild treatment and will > kill off gill flukes and many other internal flatworms. Many goldfish > from large breeders with big outdoor ponds will almost always have > gill flukes. I believe praziquantel is the same drug used to deworm > cats and dogs... and humans too in the U.S.A., if they get this types of worms. > http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Praziquantel > <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Praziquantel> > > You could treat the tank with PraziPro while observing for other symptoms. > Get the smallest bottle you can find as you only need a little bit for > treatment. I have a 4 oz. bottle that I've used a few times and still > have more than 3 oz. left. It will probably expire before I ever use > it all since I haven't been buying any new fish for quite a while > since I downsized my MTS after Katrina. > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> (Links to any articles referenced in > above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels > and also under Archives by Year, Month) > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On Behalf Of Dora Smith > Sent: Friday, December 04, 2009 5:10 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Subject: [AquaticLife] Problem with fish dying in my tank > > I've suddenly got a whole bunch of fish dying in my 20 gallon tank. A > few days ago I removed a dead pristella tetra. Today suddenly it's > three danios and a pristella tetra, and it's teh larger danios and not > the two little ones I bought a couple of days ago. > > I haven't seen any signs of disease, except that one of the danios had > red gills for awhile. > > The remaining fish are swimming around happily, and their appetite is > good. > > The ammonia is close to 0, nitrites 0, nitrates between 5 and 10 ppm. > > What should I do? > > Four little corpses are sitting next to the tank, if there's anything > in particular I should look for. > > Yours, > Dora Smith > Austin, TX > tiggernut24@... <mailto:tiggernut24%40yahoo.com> ------------------------------------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the home page. Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com to receive the digest, which includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com for the No E-Mail option where you will still be able to read messages on the group and post replies. Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com to receive individual e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links ------------------------------------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the home page. Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com to receive the digest, which includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com for the No E-Mail option where you will still be able to read messages on the group and post replies. Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com to receive individual e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 44933	From: sevenspringss@wmconnect.com	Date: 12/5/2009
Subject: Re: Newbie, and Angelfish question

Tristan, While it's true that Angelfish come from soft, acidic waters -- unless you have a wild Angelfish (or is within a few generations of being wild, i.e.; F-1 or F-2, etc.), your fish should have no problem living comfortably in your moderately alkaline hard water. At around 250 ppm (14 DGH), it is considered hard, in fact, right in the middle of being hard -- hard water is noted ass being from 200 ppm to 300 ppm DGH. Angelfish have been domestically bred for at least 75 years or so, probably longer, and in all types of water. I was breeding Angelfish 50 years ago in pH 7.4 -- 7.6 at a GH of 11 o -- what is still considered as being "moderately hard," even though it was fairly close to yours. There is another moderator on another fish-related group that I also moderate, and she keeps her Angelfish at pH 8.5 with a GH near 20 o as this is what she has to work with (those are her well water parameters). Admittedly, they don't exactly "thrive," but they still live for her after at least 4 years and are doing well, so I don't think your fish is being stressed by your parameters. Ray [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 44934	From: Dora Smith	Date: 12/5/2009
Subject: Re: [Bulk] RE: [Bulk] RE: [AquaticLife] Problem with fish dying in m

Then Amber and I must have the same algae. Yours, Dora Smith Austin, TX tiggernut24@... ----- Original Message ----- From: "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@...> To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Saturday, December 05, 2009 4:06 PM Subject: [Bulk] RE: [Bulk] RE: [AquaticLife] Problem with fish dying in my tank Read what I was answering by reading the post below my answer. It was not a post by you that I was answering. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Dora Smith Sent: Saturday, December 05, 2009 3:42 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [Bulk] RE: [AquaticLife] Problem with fish dying in my tank Do a job on which - the purple algae, or the possible flukes? I think so will a more careful cleaning. I left some patches behind last time. It is going to be a week and a half before I can buy that other stuff. What other stuff world work? That isn't even one of the things my books recommend for flukes. What should I do with my filters while I treat the tank? Yours, Dora Smith Austin, TX tiggernut24@... ----- Original Message ----- From: "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@...> To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Saturday, December 05, 2009 2:44 PM Subject: [Bulk] RE: [AquaticLife] Problem with fish dying in my tank Erythromycin or other gram-positive antibiotic will do the job but that will also do a job on your nitrifying bacteria so remove your filters while treating with Erythro. That Wiki page warns about how bacteria can develop a resistance to antibiotics if not used properly so you would have to dose the tank for a full 5-10 days to be sure you've killed off all the BGA in the tank. BGA - Cyanobacteria is more like a slime and pictures 2 and 3 on that Wiki page shows it better. It can also grow as slimy sheets on the glass also. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Amber Berglund Sent: Saturday, December 05, 2009 1:46 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Problem with fish dying in my tank Okay after looking for lots of pics on BGA I'm pretty sure I have a case of it in my 125 gallon tank, and that's probably what is killing my snails randomly. I found this pic on the wiki that looks exactly like what I have in my 125 gallon tank (in the back behind the plants). What should I do to get rid of it? http://theaquariumwiki.com/BGA The wiki says hydrogen peroxide, but I will have to remove all my mystery snails first, as it will harm them. Amber Dora Smith wrote: > > I can see I'm working on that one tomorrow. > > Yours, > Dora Smith > Austin, TX > tiggernut24@... <mailto:tiggernut24%40yahoo.com> > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@... > <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com>> > To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>> > Sent: Friday, December 04, 2009 9:18 PM > Subject: [Bulk] RE: [Bulk] RE: [Bulk] RE: [AquaticLife] Problem with > fish dying in my tank > > Purple Algae??? I've read that BBA (Black Brush Algae - Audouinella > sp.) can be in the red to brown range which might result in a purple > looking color, but purple is not very common from all I've read over the years. > > BGA (Blue Green Algae), which is actually Cyanobacteria can also be in > various colorations from blue-green to dark green and almost black so > I'm guessing a purple could develop. > > The BBA isn't harmful but BGA can be harmful. > http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cyanobacteria#Health_risks > <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cyanobacteria#Health_risks> > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> (Links to any articles referenced in > above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels > and also under Archives by Year, Month) > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On Behalf Of Dora Smith > Sent: Friday, December 04, 2009 8:12 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Subject: Re: [Bulk] RE: [Bulk] RE: [AquaticLife] Problem with fish > dying in my tank > > Speaking of issues, I've got some patches of purple algae on the walls > of my > > aquarium. Is this harmful? They probably came from teh algae rocks I > used to feed my algae eaters, before I gave up on them. > > The water quality seems to be fine. No ammonia, no nitrites, and the > nitrates are between 5 and 10 ppwhatever. The tank did go a bit > downhill a > > week or so ago, but I've got it back up to snuff - except for the > patches of purple algae. > > Yours, > Dora Smith > Austin, TX > tiggernut24@... <mailto:tiggernut24%40yahoo.com> > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@... > <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com>> > To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>> > Sent: Friday, December 04, 2009 7:22 PM > Subject: [Bulk] RE: [Bulk] RE: [AquaticLife] Problem with fish dying > in my tank > > The filter media is fine. As usual, remove carbon when using any > medication. > > If you do a Google Image search on 'goldfish gill flukes microscope', > I'm sure you'll find plenty of good microscopic images of what they > look like, for comparative purposes. > > You need to quit buying fish for a while until you get your tank's > health situation in check. It sounds like you may have issues already > and then adding fish that might have other issues is just compounding > things. Any fish you get from the big box stores should definitely be > quarantined before adding them to your display tank. I guess, if you > were getting fish from an individual breeder who you know to have > healthy tanks, maybe one might risk adding them directly to a display > tank but certainly not fish bought from anywhere else. > > How old are/were your zebra danios? Remember to add zebra in front as > there are many types of danios but I'm pretty sure you have zebra > danios and the glofish are zebra danios as well. ZD's should live for > around five years, according to this very extensive fish lifespan > guide... > http://goldlenny.blogspot.com/2007/02/how-long-should-aquarium-fish-li > ve.htm > <http://goldlenny.blogspot.com/2007/02/how-long-should-aquarium-fish-l > ive.htm> l (OUCH.. I just sprained my shoulder patting myself on the > back! ;-)) If yours aren't making it at least 3-4 years, then > something is going wrong. I have also seen the bent spine and/or > swimming nose up near the bottom as two signs when a ZD is on it's > last leg... or would that be fin? But mine were close to the five year > mark and did not respond to any treatments so I believe it was just > old age that did them in. > > I haven't owned any ZD's in a while but I just did a Google search of > 'zebra danio bent spine' and there are hundreds of hits in forums so > apparently this is something that seems to be more common with more > recently purchased ZD's since most of these forum posts are from 2007 > to present. I only saw one on Robin's page that was from 2001. Out of > the 1,300+ hits, over 583 are from the past year. I hope this isn't > something like NTD that ravished Neon Tetras for a long time. Bent > spine, from what I recall, is one of the symptoms of Fish TB, but is > also attributed to stray voltage and birth defects as well but there's > a chance your tank/fish could have Fish TB. > Read up more on that before jumping to any conclusions about this > contagious disease... even contagious to humans but not related to > Human TB. > > Parasites can spread quickly and then once they infest a fish/tank, it > causes the fish a lot of stress and then the fish's immune system > falters and other minor bacterial issues, that the fish would normally > have warded off, becomes more critical. > > I'm not sure of the best place to get PraziPro. It's owned by Hikari > now, if I'm not mistaken, so it could be in a big-box pet store or you > might have to buy it online. I know DrsFosterSmith.com sells it and > I'm sure many other big online fish sites sell it. > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> (Links to any articles referenced in > above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels > and also under Archives by Year, Month) > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On Behalf Of Dora Smith > Sent: Friday, December 04, 2009 5:59 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Subject: Re: [Bulk] RE: [AquaticLife] Problem with fish dying in my > tank > > Lenny, while I treat the tank with this stuff, what do I do with the > filter media? > > I do have a good microscope and all the fish disease books; if gill > flukes are there you'd think I can find them. > > I have been steadily but slowly losing danios for awhile, but they > were all new fish, and they were also glofish. I decided they just > weren't destined to live. They also developed that crookedy spine > thing that I'm in fact noticing lately in all danios at Petco. The > newest danios from two days ago came from Petsmart. > > But would gill flukes strike all at once? > > One other thing; where's the best place to get praziwhatsit in a hurry? > > Yours, > Dora Smith > Austin, TX > tiggernut24@... <mailto:tiggernut24%40yahoo.com> > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@... > <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com>> > To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>> > Sent: Friday, December 04, 2009 5:53 PM > Subject: [Bulk] RE: [AquaticLife] Problem with fish dying in my tank > > It sounds like you added new fish to the tank "a couple of days ago" > and now > you have health issues so more than likely, the new fish brought in a > pathogen that your existing fish did not have an immunity. More than > likely a parasite, possibly gill flukes, instead of bacterial since > bacterial infections do not normally kill so quickly. As a general > rule, there really is no such thing as immunity for parasites although > some fish are more susceptible than others to parasitic issues. There > are some theories out there about external parasites and some fish > containing a chemical in their slime coat that deters external > parasites. > > This is why we preach about quarantining new fish for several weeks so > you can observe them for any possible health issues and while I do not > "pre-treat" quarantined fish for most health issues unless I see > something specific, I will and do use and recommend PraziPro > (praziquantel) in the Q-tank since it's a very mild treatment and will > kill off gill flukes and many other internal flatworms. Many goldfish > from large breeders with big outdoor ponds will almost always have > gill flukes. I believe praziquantel is the same drug used to deworm > cats and dogs... and humans too in the U.S.A., if they get this types of worms. > http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Praziquantel > <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Praziquantel> > > You could treat the tank with PraziPro while observing for other symptoms. > Get the smallest bottle you can find as you only need a little bit for > treatment. I have a 4 oz. bottle that I've used a few times and still > have more than 3 oz. left. It will probably expire before I ever use > it all since I haven't been buying any new fish for quite a while > since I downsized my MTS after Katrina. > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> (Links to any articles referenced in > above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels > and also under Archives by Year, Month) > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On Behalf Of Dora Smith > Sent: Friday, December 04, 2009 5:10 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Subject: [AquaticLife] Problem with fish dying in my tank > > I've suddenly got a whole bunch of fish dying in my 20 gallon tank. A > few days ago I removed a dead pristella tetra. Today suddenly it's > three danios and a pristella tetra, and it's teh larger danios and not > the two little ones I bought a couple of days ago. > > I haven't seen any signs of disease, except that one of the danios had > red gills for awhile. > > The remaining fish are swimming around happily, and their appetite is > good. > > The ammonia is close to 0, nitrites 0, nitrates between 5 and 10 ppm. > > What should I do? > > Four little corpses are sitting next to the tank, if there's anything > in particular I should look for. > > Yours, > Dora Smith > Austin, TX > tiggernut24@... <mailto:tiggernut24%40yahoo.com> ------------------------------------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the home page. Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com to receive the digest, which includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com for the No E-Mail option where you will still be able to read messages on the group and post replies. Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com to receive individual e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links ------------------------------------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the home page. Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com to receive the digest, which includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com for the No E-Mail option where you will still be able to read messages on the group and post replies. Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com to receive individual e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links ------------------------------------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the home page. Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com to receive the digest, which includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com for the No E-Mail option where you will still be able to read messages on the group and post replies. Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com to receive individual e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 44935	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 12/5/2009
Subject: Re: questions about Yoyo loaches or other small snail eating loaches

My LFS won't buy anything from me, I could give them to him for free perhaps (yeah right, not doing that). The owner is a jerk, I don't even shop there when he's working. Amber Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > > You already have two Angelfish in that 55G... right? You have to be > careful > about bioload since most loaches need to be in shoals of five or more. > > How many times have the Angel's mated and eaten their eggs? Maybe you > could > have a divider ready for next time and separate the adults from the > eggs as > soon as they lay the eggs... if you want them to live. Will your LFS buy > Angelfish from you? > > Here's what Mongabay says about Suggested Companions for P. scalare... > (Loaches - Botia, et al, aren't on the list... Sorry!) > > SC: Catfish (Armored, Pimelodids, Doradids, Loricarids), characins > (Headstanders, hatchetfish, larger schooling tetras), cichlids (Angelfish, > Discus, Waroo, Acaras, Ram, Eartheaters), gouramis, livebearers that can > tolerate neutral water conditions. > > Maybe a school of Tetras and a Clown Pleco for additional algae control to > help the Mystery Snails? Or a pair of pretty Rams who would take the other > end of the tank for their breeding area? I think I've read that it's best > to get one male and several females until he decides which one he wants... > God, I wish I was a fish! LOL The leftover females could populate your 10G > tanks as well... or sell them to the LFS. I'm surprised to see > Gourami's on > the list so that leaves you plenty of options also but the non-dwarf's get > pretty big. > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right > side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On > Behalf Of Amber Berglund > Sent: Saturday, December 05, 2009 2:37 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] questions about Yoyo loaches or other small > snail > eating loaches. > > So in other words they would eat any snail, even my big ones ;) LOL. > That's all I needed to know about whether I should get them for that > tank or > not. I'm considering them for the Angelfish tank since they still haven't > had any babies (keep eating their eggs, oh well). Should I get > semi-aggressive loaches if I put them in that tank? I suppose more > aggressive ones might hurt the Angel's. > > Amber > > Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > > > > Well, worse case if you forget to take the food out is that the snails > > will eat it all and reproduce even more since most snails are > > opportunistic breeders. That should be enough to make you remember to > > take it out the next morning. > > > > Or, you could tie a string around your finger when you put the leaf in > > at night and when you wake up in the morning with your finger swollen > > because you tied the string too tight, that will also remind you about > > the leaf of lettuce or spinach. > > > > Of course, be careful if your fish eat the spinach as it could result > > in Popeye! Arrr! Arrr! Or should that be A-gah-gah-gah-gah-gah-gah :-D > > http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KYK3Fz6pXnA > <http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KYK3Fz6pXnA> > > <http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KYK3Fz6pXnA > <http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KYK3Fz6pXnA>> > > > > I'm not sure how effective loaches are on MTS since their shells are > > so hard and they have trap doors. I don't think they'll discriminate > > against eating your Mystery Snails, regardless of size. > > > > If you get snail eating loaches for the tank, don't plan on keeping > > snails in that tank any longer. > > > > There are also these Assassin Snails, Anentome helena, > > > http://forums.loaches.com/viewtopic.php?t=12094&postdays=0&postorder=a > <http://forums.loaches.com/viewtopic.php?t=12094&postdays=0&postorder=a> > > sc&sta > > > <http://forums.loaches.com/viewtopic.php?t=12094&postdays=0&postorder= > <http://forums.loaches.com/viewtopic.php?t=12094&postdays=0&postorder=> > > asc&sta> rt=0 (five page thread) but they would also go after your > > Mystery Snails. > > Of course, you could always move the Assassin Snails to one of your > > 10G's after they do their thing and then put your Mystery Snails back > > into the 125G. Supposedly, Assassin Snails do not breed much You > > couldn't do this with the YoYo's or any other loaches. On a regular > > basis, and when you get too many Mystery Snails, throw some into the > > 10G Assassin Snail tank for them to eat. > > > > Check eBay and Aquabid for sellers of these snails. > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>> > (Links to any articles referenced in > > above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels > > and also under Archives by Year, Month) > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On Behalf Of Amber Berglund > > Sent: Saturday, December 05, 2009 1:40 PM > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > Subject: [AquaticLife] questions about Yoyo loaches or other small > > snail eating loaches. > > > > I was considering picking up some yoyo loaches at some point for my > > 125 gallon tank, but I have a concern or two first. I'm looking for a > > smaller loach that eats smaller pond/pest snails but isn't aggressive > > at the same time, so if there's a better one than yoyo loaches please > > feel free to let me know, LOL. My biggest concern is this; Do I need > > to take all my adult mystery snails out of the tank when I add any > > snail eating loaches, or are my adult size mystery snails too big for > > them to kill and eat? My goal is to get rid of my ramshorn snails, a > > good portion of the MTS, and some small pond snails (couldn't find any > > other name for them when searching for them on google). If I put > > something in the tank I may very well forget to take it out, so I > > haven't tried the lettuce method yet, I didn't want to kill my fish by > > forgetting food in the tank on accident. > > > > Amber > > > > > > ------------------------------------ > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. > ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> > PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to > the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the > SUBJECT > LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- > <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. > > If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of unsubscribing, you > can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the > home page. > > Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:aquaticlife-digest%40yahoogroups.com> to receive the digest, which > includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email > > Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:aquaticlife-nomail%40yahoogroups.com> for the No E-Mail option > where > you will still be able to read messages on the group and post replies. > > Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:aquaticlife-normal%40yahoogroups.com> to receive individual > e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 44936	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 12/5/2009
Subject: Re: questions about Yoyo loaches or other small snail eating loaches

Oh and my LFS only had clown loaches and skunk loaches anyways, no yoyo's. The only fish in the 55 gallon are the 2 Angelfish, about 3 inches "wide" in size. The female is quite pretty with her long veil tail and the male has long tips to his fins, not quite sure what type that is. I was mostly looking for something to control the smaller snail population, I don't mind having a few but they take over if you let them, LOL. Amber Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > > You already have two Angelfish in that 55G... right? You have to be > careful > about bioload since most loaches need to be in shoals of five or more. > > How many times have the Angel's mated and eaten their eggs? Maybe you > could > have a divider ready for next time and separate the adults from the > eggs as > soon as they lay the eggs... if you want them to live. Will your LFS buy > Angelfish from you? > > Here's what Mongabay says about Suggested Companions for P. scalare... > (Loaches - Botia, et al, aren't on the list... Sorry!) > > SC: Catfish (Armored, Pimelodids, Doradids, Loricarids), characins > (Headstanders, hatchetfish, larger schooling tetras), cichlids (Angelfish, > Discus, Waroo, Acaras, Ram, Eartheaters), gouramis, livebearers that can > tolerate neutral water conditions. > > Maybe a school of Tetras and a Clown Pleco for additional algae control to > help the Mystery Snails? Or a pair of pretty Rams who would take the other > end of the tank for their breeding area? I think I've read that it's best > to get one male and several females until he decides which one he wants... > God, I wish I was a fish! LOL The leftover females could populate your 10G > tanks as well... or sell them to the LFS. I'm surprised to see > Gourami's on > the list so that leaves you plenty of options also but the non-dwarf's get > pretty big. > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right > side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On > Behalf Of Amber Berglund > Sent: Saturday, December 05, 2009 2:37 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] questions about Yoyo loaches or other small > snail > eating loaches. > > So in other words they would eat any snail, even my big ones ;) LOL. > That's all I needed to know about whether I should get them for that > tank or > not. I'm considering them for the Angelfish tank since they still haven't > had any babies (keep eating their eggs, oh well). Should I get > semi-aggressive loaches if I put them in that tank? I suppose more > aggressive ones might hurt the Angel's. > > Amber > > Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > > > > Well, worse case if you forget to take the food out is that the snails > > will eat it all and reproduce even more since most snails are > > opportunistic breeders. That should be enough to make you remember to > > take it out the next morning. > > > > Or, you could tie a string around your finger when you put the leaf in > > at night and when you wake up in the morning with your finger swollen > > because you tied the string too tight, that will also remind you about > > the leaf of lettuce or spinach. > > > > Of course, be careful if your fish eat the spinach as it could result > > in Popeye! Arrr! Arrr! Or should that be A-gah-gah-gah-gah-gah-gah :-D > > http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KYK3Fz6pXnA > <http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KYK3Fz6pXnA> > > <http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KYK3Fz6pXnA > <http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KYK3Fz6pXnA>> > > > > I'm not sure how effective loaches are on MTS since their shells are > > so hard and they have trap doors. I don't think they'll discriminate > > against eating your Mystery Snails, regardless of size. > > > > If you get snail eating loaches for the tank, don't plan on keeping > > snails in that tank any longer. > > > > There are also these Assassin Snails, Anentome helena, > > > http://forums.loaches.com/viewtopic.php?t=12094&postdays=0&postorder=a > <http://forums.loaches.com/viewtopic.php?t=12094&postdays=0&postorder=a> > > sc&sta > > > <http://forums.loaches.com/viewtopic.php?t=12094&postdays=0&postorder= > <http://forums.loaches.com/viewtopic.php?t=12094&postdays=0&postorder=> > > asc&sta> rt=0 (five page thread) but they would also go after your > > Mystery Snails. > > Of course, you could always move the Assassin Snails to one of your > > 10G's after they do their thing and then put your Mystery Snails back > > into the 125G. Supposedly, Assassin Snails do not breed much You > > couldn't do this with the YoYo's or any other loaches. On a regular > > basis, and when you get too many Mystery Snails, throw some into the > > 10G Assassin Snail tank for them to eat. > > > > Check eBay and Aquabid for sellers of these snails. > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>> > (Links to any articles referenced in > > above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels > > and also under Archives by Year, Month) > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On Behalf Of Amber Berglund > > Sent: Saturday, December 05, 2009 1:40 PM > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > Subject: [AquaticLife] questions about Yoyo loaches or other small > > snail eating loaches. > > > > I was considering picking up some yoyo loaches at some point for my > > 125 gallon tank, but I have a concern or two first. I'm looking for a > > smaller loach that eats smaller pond/pest snails but isn't aggressive > > at the same time, so if there's a better one than yoyo loaches please > > feel free to let me know, LOL. My biggest concern is this; Do I need > > to take all my adult mystery snails out of the tank when I add any > > snail eating loaches, or are my adult size mystery snails too big for > > them to kill and eat? My goal is to get rid of my ramshorn snails, a > > good portion of the MTS, and some small pond snails (couldn't find any > > other name for them when searching for them on google). If I put > > something in the tank I may very well forget to take it out, so I > > haven't tried the lettuce method yet, I didn't want to kill my fish by > > forgetting food in the tank on accident. > > > > Amber > > > > > > ------------------------------------ > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. > ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> > PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to > the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the > SUBJECT > LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- > <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. > > If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of unsubscribing, you > can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the > home page. > > Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:aquaticlife-digest%40yahoogroups.com> to receive the digest, which > includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email > > Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:aquaticlife-nomail%40yahoogroups.com> for the No E-Mail option > where > you will still be able to read messages on the group and post replies. > > Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:aquaticlife-normal%40yahoogroups.com> to receive individual > e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 44937	From: sevenspringss@wmconnect.com	Date: 12/5/2009
Subject: Re: Newbie, and Angelfish question

Tristan,Lenny, In looking for a sufficient cause of stress to induce this Pop-Eye disease, I'm tending to be suspect of some maintenance procedures that perhaps were overlooked in regularly being performed. Tristan, while you indicted that you haven't been in the hobby for an extended amount of time, could you please tell us about how long this tank has been set up, and what kind of substrate (and depth) you are using? While you haven't said, but as your supplied parameters (except for the missing ammonia test, which I'd advise getting) tend to point to, it would appear that you are keeping up with your PWC's, unless there's something I'm missing or haven't seen -- like an elevated ammonia reading. Could you also tell us how much and how often you do partial water changes -- not that this would seem relevant since your water, so far, appears healthy? More importantly with this, could you tell us something about the periodic cleaning of your substrate -- how often this is performed and to what depth? I ask this as most often, the condition of Pop-Eye coincides with less-than-attentive substrate cleaning as quite often what can occur in such conditions is that pockets of Heterotrophic Anaerobic bacteria will build up when uneaten food and/or other organic debris settles down into the substrate to only a modest depth but where Aerobic bacteria cannot colonize. These Anaerobic bacteria are most often species of Vibrio-Aeromonas, Pseudomonas and Bacillus, all possibly producing noxious free sulfides -- and all being in genera common to species such as Pseudomonas punctata, etc., which is the prevelant cause of Pop-Eye or other internal fish disorders. While these Anaerobic bacteria found in the substrate cannot in themselves infect fish, the presence of the first two are most commonly associated with the presence of the disease-causing Pop-Eye pathogens, while the third bacteria genus mentioned has species in its genus causing digestive disorders in fish and may commonly be found together in the aquarium. While I'm not saying that your possible poor substrate maintenance is what has caused this disease, it may to a place to start looking at when considering that other fishes could be similarly infected in time, should this condition be present. Ray [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 44938	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 12/5/2009
Subject: Re: Newbie, and Angelfish question

Ray, My father was breeding them more than 60 years ago, so your 75 years may be close to the mark. There are some early issues of The Aquarium online, so it may be worth looking to see if they have anything on angels in them. \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of sevenspringss@... Sent: Saturday, December 05, 2009 5:11 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Newbie, and Angelfish question Tristan, While it's true that Angelfish come from soft, acidic waters -- unless you have a wild Angelfish (or is within a few generations of being wild, i.e.; F-1 or F-2, etc.), your fish should have no problem living comfortably in your moderately alkaline hard water. At around 250 ppm (14 DGH), it is considered hard, in fact, right in the middle of being hard -- hard water is noted ass being from 200 ppm to 300 ppm DGH. Angelfish have been domestically bred for at least 75 years or so, probably longer, and in all types of water. I was breeding Angelfish 50 years ago in pH 7.4 -- 7.6 at a GH of 11 o -- what is still considered as being "moderately hard," even though it was fairly close to yours. There is another moderator on another fish-related group that I also moderate, and she keeps her Angelfish at pH 8.5 with a GH near 20 o as this is what she has to work with (those are her well water parameters). Admittedly, they don't exactly "thrive," but they still live for her after at least 4 years and are doing well, so I don't think your fish is being stressed by your parameters. Ray

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 44939	From: greyclouds99	Date: 12/5/2009
Subject: Re: Newbie, and Angelfish question

Hi Ray, Steve, and Lenny. I see more than a dozen of messages that I've read and need to answer. I admit that all these infos were mind blowing to me, and even for a second I was like "what the hell did I think I was doing by buying that 34g tank? wasn't I fine with Prince, my Crown Betta?". But, I realize that the most amazing hobbies in the world include "science" as a big portion of them. So, here I am, trying my best to learn more, not just to cure my Angelfish, but to keep my other fish healthier and then enjoy them better. I'm truely thankful for all of your concern and help. Here are follow-ups to what captured me most in the emails related to my "problem" who is currently breathing and swimming very normally and calmly and eating well in its H-tank, still not showing any signs of improving, but it's only been 12 hours since I started the treatment. Ray: * I have no idea if it's chlorine or chloramine, and unfortunately I don't use water conditioners, I thought they were too expensive while holding the water that I'm planning to use in a bucket for about 48 hours in room temp. should be enough to outgas the harmful stuff and do the job of a conditioner. (2.25$ for a bottle of 8 oz , enough to treat about 50 gallons of water) * I couldn't notice the popping eye at first. The first sign was a white dusty spot inside the eye's "lens", not on the center. And I'm sure that the eye didn't look popped when I was looking at it through the front glass, but now it's clearly popped when I look from both above and front directions. It's not "oozing" but there's a very small grey spot emerging from behind the eye, as if a tiny grey worm is trying to stick its head out! Only it's not a worm. * The Minocycline tablet I crushed to form the solution didn't dissolve, I had to stir it well and yet a small amount of yellow powder remained in the bottom, I remembered that most antibiotic syrups are also suspensions not solutions, so I just shaked well before pulling the needed dose using a syringe. * The difference between gram+and-bacteria, as you explained it, now makes perfect sense as why would some antibiotics affect the Gram+b and others the Gram-b more, it's not only absorbing a dye or not, it also includes "absorbing or letting-in" an antibiotic or not! wow! * My Angels usually do great in my water, they double size in no time, but eventually reach a 3-4" size (not including the tail)and stop growing. That's when they start laying eggs, sometimes earlier. * My 34 Gallon tank has been running for almost 20 months now I think, it's about 21" high, the substrate is fine seashore gravel about 1.5-2" deep at the back of the tank and 1" -1.5" at the front. I couldn't find an Ammonia test kit here. I do 25-35 PWC's with deep gravel vaccuming (down to the buttom) every 7-12 days, depending on how busy I am, what the parameters show (especially Nitrates) and how much of a priority the fish make at that time! I should mention that I keep an undergravel filter running all the time with a powerful power head. And yet I always pick debris from the gravel when I vaccum it, enough to turn the removed water into light brown. * All the many aquarium medications I found today didn't mention the active ingredient, neither were listed on the internet, they only contained brief info on the label saying wheather they were addressing external - internal - bacteria (both Gram +and- in the same bottle)- fungi- parasites etc.. But I found both NALIDIXIC ACID and ERYTHROMYCIN in tablet forms made for HUMANS. I'm waiting for your advise concerning the pop-eye (if decided to be the illness) or the blood inside the lens that may require some treatment. Is the Minocycline I'm using enough? or should-can I add to that? I searched and found that the conbination of two antibiotics is possible if they were BOTH either killing the bacteria OR BOTH preventing it of multiplying. But I don't know which ones are 'stoppers' and which are.. emm.. 'castraters' :( Lenny: * Although sometimes I feel like both , a He and a She, especially when changing diapers and preparing formula bottles "I'm not complaining here!", but I'm essentially and hopefully considered a HE. I grew abroad and passed almost half of my life away from home. Having this hobby where I live now is bit of a challenge, as there aren't many choices and facilities concerning fishkeeping. * The treatment will only consume 1.5 tablets, so I can be confident when throwing whatever solution remains and prepare a new one every other day. * I'll follow your advise and gently squeeze the filter's sponge from my 34g over the new H-tank every few days to booste the cycline process, especially if there was chloramine in the water. Perhaps srubbing some build up from inside the filter into the Htank , as the articles you forwarded suggest. * I think my Pleco is a Iquitos Tiger Pleco , although he/she's too young to show all these streaks. * I was already planning on turning that 15gallon H-tank into a permanent tank, and was just wondering which species should I move to it. So, thanks for all that help. Now I'm wondering if my fish will be mad at me in the future when I use a bucket as a H-tank! Steve: * I almost followed your father's steps once (lol), I've bred Angelfish in my 34Gallon tank before turning it into a community tank, and the few surviving fry lived up to 2 weeks before being mysteriously dead. I could see them swimming around with their tiny transparent boddies. well, I have never been a good follower in any aspect anyway! Sorry about the long post, you guys overwhelmed me with all the infos and questions about my tank and fish, and I had to reply all of that to know more and care more for my fish. Thanks. Tristan

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 44940	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 12/5/2009
Subject: Re: questions about Yoyo loaches or other small snail eating loaches

You need to start the SAAS - South Alaska Aquarium Society... or maybe the KMAS - Ketchikan-Metlakatla Aquarium Society.. or KAIAS - Ketchikan-Annette Island Aquarium Society. Yeah.. I used Google Earth to look around to see how close you were to another city/island up there.. lol.. looks like a nice lil ferry ride between your islands. Your island looks bigger but Annette Island looks more developed with cities spread out and roads all over their island. Heck, I couldn't even find a name for your island. Doing this would enable all of you gals/guys to stay in touch and be able to sell/swap fish at monthly or quarterly meetings. Maybe someone else up there has the wherewithal to start up a small LFS or even just do something out of their home/garage as a home-based business. Of course, you all could participate at monthly meetings and auctions, even having your own little Yahoo Group to stay in touch so everyone knows what everyone else has for sale or swap and to make announcements. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Amber Berglund Sent: Saturday, December 05, 2009 4:49 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] questions about Yoyo loaches or other small snail eating loaches. My LFS won't buy anything from me, I could give them to him for free perhaps (yeah right, not doing that). The owner is a jerk, I don't even shop there when he's working. Amber Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > > You already have two Angelfish in that 55G... right? You have to be > careful about bioload since most loaches need to be in shoals of five > or more. > > How many times have the Angel's mated and eaten their eggs? Maybe you > could have a divider ready for next time and separate the adults from > the eggs as soon as they lay the eggs... if you want them to live. > Will your LFS buy Angelfish from you? > > Here's what Mongabay says about Suggested Companions for P. scalare... > (Loaches - Botia, et al, aren't on the list... Sorry!) > > SC: Catfish (Armored, Pimelodids, Doradids, Loricarids), characins > (Headstanders, hatchetfish, larger schooling tetras), cichlids > (Angelfish, Discus, Waroo, Acaras, Ram, Eartheaters), gouramis, > livebearers that can tolerate neutral water conditions. > > Maybe a school of Tetras and a Clown Pleco for additional algae > control to help the Mystery Snails? Or a pair of pretty Rams who would > take the other end of the tank for their breeding area? I think I've > read that it's best to get one male and several females until he decides which one he wants... > God, I wish I was a fish! LOL The leftover females could populate your > 10G tanks as well... or sell them to the LFS. I'm surprised to see > Gourami's on the list so that leaves you plenty of options also but > the non-dwarf's get pretty big. > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> (Links to any articles referenced in > above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels > and also under Archives by Year, Month) > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On Behalf Of Amber Berglund > Sent: Saturday, December 05, 2009 2:37 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] questions about Yoyo loaches or other small > snail eating loaches. > > So in other words they would eat any snail, even my big ones ;) LOL. > That's all I needed to know about whether I should get them for that > tank or not. I'm considering them for the Angelfish tank since they > still haven't had any babies (keep eating their eggs, oh well). Should > I get semi-aggressive loaches if I put them in that tank? I suppose > more aggressive ones might hurt the Angel's. > > Amber > > Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > > > > Well, worse case if you forget to take the food out is that the > > snails will eat it all and reproduce even more since most snails are > > opportunistic breeders. That should be enough to make you remember > > to take it out the next morning. > > > > Or, you could tie a string around your finger when you put the leaf > > in at night and when you wake up in the morning with your finger > > swollen because you tied the string too tight, that will also remind > > you about the leaf of lettuce or spinach. > > > > Of course, be careful if your fish eat the spinach as it could > > result in Popeye! Arrr! Arrr! Or should that be > > A-gah-gah-gah-gah-gah-gah :-D > > http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KYK3Fz6pXnA > <http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KYK3Fz6pXnA> > > <http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KYK3Fz6pXnA > <http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KYK3Fz6pXnA>> > > > > I'm not sure how effective loaches are on MTS since their shells are > > so hard and they have trap doors. I don't think they'll discriminate > > against eating your Mystery Snails, regardless of size. > > > > If you get snail eating loaches for the tank, don't plan on keeping > > snails in that tank any longer. > > > > There are also these Assassin Snails, Anentome helena, > > > http://forums.loaches.com/viewtopic.php?t=12094&postdays=0&postorder=a > <http://forums.loaches.com/viewtopic.php?t=12094&postdays=0&postorder= > a> > > sc&sta > > > <http://forums.loaches.com/viewtopic.php?t=12094&postdays=0&postorder= > <http://forums.loaches.com/viewtopic.php?t=12094&postdays=0&postorder= > > > > asc&sta> rt=0 (five page thread) but they would also go after your > > Mystery Snails. > > Of course, you could always move the Assassin Snails to one of your > > 10G's after they do their thing and then put your Mystery Snails > > back into the 125G. Supposedly, Assassin Snails do not breed much > > You couldn't do this with the YoYo's or any other loaches. On a > > regular basis, and when you get too many Mystery Snails, throw some > > into the 10G Assassin Snail tank for them to eat. > > > > Check eBay and Aquabid for sellers of these snails. > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>> > (Links to any articles referenced in > > above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under > > Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On Behalf Of Amber Berglund > > Sent: Saturday, December 05, 2009 1:40 PM > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > Subject: [AquaticLife] questions about Yoyo loaches or other small > > snail eating loaches. > > > > I was considering picking up some yoyo loaches at some point for my > > 125 gallon tank, but I have a concern or two first. I'm looking for > > a smaller loach that eats smaller pond/pest snails but isn't > > aggressive at the same time, so if there's a better one than yoyo > > loaches please feel free to let me know, LOL. My biggest concern is > > this; Do I need to take all my adult mystery snails out of the tank > > when I add any snail eating loaches, or are my adult size mystery > > snails too big for them to kill and eat? My goal is to get rid of my > > ramshorn snails, a good portion of the MTS, and some small pond > > snails (couldn't find any other name for them when searching for > > them on google). If I put something in the tank I may very well > > forget to take it out, so I haven't tried the lettuce method yet, I > > didn't want to kill my fish by forgetting food in the tank on accident. > > > > Amber

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 44941	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 12/5/2009
Subject: Re: questions about Yoyo loaches or other small snail eating loaches

I wonder why loaches aren't compatible, they're able to defend themselves (well a good portion are at least, not hillstreams). My 2 angel's are pretty aggressive (since they're a mated pair I assume), so I was trying to consider something that they couldn't harm. I am thinking that assassin snails are my only choice in the Angel tank at least. Good thing there are some auctions on aquabid for them, so I can find them if I decide to get them. I'm still considering my choices in the 125 gallon tank for the future. I'm not getting skunk loaches or clown loaches for that tank at all, so my LFS is out for the near future (they don't order fish very often in the winter). I gave up on rams awhile back, I can't keep them alive for more than a couple of months, they don't like my tanks or water or something. They were fine before I started adding crushed coral, perhaps I made my water too hard for them or something on accident. I can't please everyone, gotta go with the masses ;) LOL. Amber Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > > You already have two Angelfish in that 55G... right? You have to be > careful > about bioload since most loaches need to be in shoals of five or more. > > How many times have the Angel's mated and eaten their eggs? Maybe you > could > have a divider ready for next time and separate the adults from the > eggs as > soon as they lay the eggs... if you want them to live. Will your LFS buy > Angelfish from you? > > Here's what Mongabay says about Suggested Companions for P. scalare... > (Loaches - Botia, et al, aren't on the list... Sorry!) > > SC: Catfish (Armored, Pimelodids, Doradids, Loricarids), characins > (Headstanders, hatchetfish, larger schooling tetras), cichlids (Angelfish, > Discus, Waroo, Acaras, Ram, Eartheaters), gouramis, livebearers that can > tolerate neutral water conditions. > > Maybe a school of Tetras and a Clown Pleco for additional algae control to > help the Mystery Snails? Or a pair of pretty Rams who would take the other > end of the tank for their breeding area? I think I've read that it's best > to get one male and several females until he decides which one he wants... > God, I wish I was a fish! LOL The leftover females could populate your 10G > tanks as well... or sell them to the LFS. I'm surprised to see > Gourami's on > the list so that leaves you plenty of options also but the non-dwarf's get > pretty big. > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right > side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On > Behalf Of Amber Berglund > Sent: Saturday, December 05, 2009 2:37 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] questions about Yoyo loaches or other small > snail > eating loaches. > > So in other words they would eat any snail, even my big ones ;) LOL. > That's all I needed to know about whether I should get them for that > tank or > not. I'm considering them for the Angelfish tank since they still haven't > had any babies (keep eating their eggs, oh well). Should I get > semi-aggressive loaches if I put them in that tank? I suppose more > aggressive ones might hurt the Angel's. > > Amber > > Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > > > > Well, worse case if you forget to take the food out is that the snails > > will eat it all and reproduce even more since most snails are > > opportunistic breeders. That should be enough to make you remember to > > take it out the next morning. > > > > Or, you could tie a string around your finger when you put the leaf in > > at night and when you wake up in the morning with your finger swollen > > because you tied the string too tight, that will also remind you about > > the leaf of lettuce or spinach. > > > > Of course, be careful if your fish eat the spinach as it could result > > in Popeye! Arrr! Arrr! Or should that be A-gah-gah-gah-gah-gah-gah :-D > > http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KYK3Fz6pXnA > <http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KYK3Fz6pXnA> > > <http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KYK3Fz6pXnA > <http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KYK3Fz6pXnA>> > > > > I'm not sure how effective loaches are on MTS since their shells are > > so hard and they have trap doors. I don't think they'll discriminate > > against eating your Mystery Snails, regardless of size. > > > > If you get snail eating loaches for the tank, don't plan on keeping > > snails in that tank any longer. > > > > There are also these Assassin Snails, Anentome helena, > > > http://forums.loaches.com/viewtopic.php?t=12094&postdays=0&postorder=a > <http://forums.loaches.com/viewtopic.php?t=12094&postdays=0&postorder=a> > > sc&sta > > > <http://forums.loaches.com/viewtopic.php?t=12094&postdays=0&postorder= > <http://forums.loaches.com/viewtopic.php?t=12094&postdays=0&postorder=> > > asc&sta> rt=0 (five page thread) but they would also go after your > > Mystery Snails. > > Of course, you could always move the Assassin Snails to one of your > > 10G's after they do their thing and then put your Mystery Snails back > > into the 125G. Supposedly, Assassin Snails do not breed much You > > couldn't do this with the YoYo's or any other loaches. On a regular > > basis, and when you get too many Mystery Snails, throw some into the > > 10G Assassin Snail tank for them to eat. > > > > Check eBay and Aquabid for sellers of these snails. > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>> > (Links to any articles referenced in > > above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels > > and also under Archives by Year, Month) > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On Behalf Of Amber Berglund > > Sent: Saturday, December 05, 2009 1:40 PM > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > Subject: [AquaticLife] questions about Yoyo loaches or other small > > snail eating loaches. > > > > I was considering picking up some yoyo loaches at some point for my > > 125 gallon tank, but I have a concern or two first. I'm looking for a > > smaller loach that eats smaller pond/pest snails but isn't aggressive > > at the same time, so if there's a better one than yoyo loaches please > > feel free to let me know, LOL. My biggest concern is this; Do I need > > to take all my adult mystery snails out of the tank when I add any > > snail eating loaches, or are my adult size mystery snails too big for > > them to kill and eat? My goal is to get rid of my ramshorn snails, a > > good portion of the MTS, and some small pond snails (couldn't find any > > other name for them when searching for them on google). If I put > > something in the tank I may very well forget to take it out, so I > > haven't tried the lettuce method yet, I didn't want to kill my fish by > > forgetting food in the tank on accident. > > > > Amber > > > > > > ------------------------------------ > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. > ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> > PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to > the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the > SUBJECT > LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- > <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. > > If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of unsubscribing, you > can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the > home page. > > Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:aquaticlife-digest%40yahoogroups.com> to receive the digest, which > includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email > > Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:aquaticlife-nomail%40yahoogroups.com> for the No E-Mail option > where > you will still be able to read messages on the group and post replies. > > Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:aquaticlife-normal%40yahoogroups.com> to receive individual > e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 44942	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 12/5/2009
Subject: Re: questions about Yoyo loaches or other small snail eating loaches

Our island is a mouth full, LOL. It's called Revillagigedo (don't ask me what it means, LOL). Here ya go, so you don't have to search for it ;) http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Revillagigedo_Island There are a few fish owners on the island that I've met, most of them know NOTHING I swear... I gave up lecturing, they look at me like I'm stupid when I start to explain why their 3 oscars and goldfish keep dieing in their 55 gallon tank *sigh*. Someone needs to make a pamphlet that you can print out ;) LOL. Even my coworker looked at me oddly when I told him he can't keep pond goldfish in a 10 gallon tank, especially several of them :( I offered him guppy's instead, LOL. Amber Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > > You need to start the SAAS - South Alaska Aquarium Society... or maybe the > KMAS - Ketchikan-Metlakatla Aquarium Society.. or KAIAS - > Ketchikan-Annette > Island Aquarium Society. Yeah.. I used Google Earth to look around to see > how close you were to another city/island up there.. lol.. looks like > a nice > lil ferry ride between your islands. Your island looks bigger but Annette > Island looks more developed with cities spread out and roads all over > their > island. Heck, I couldn't even find a name for your island. Doing this > would enable all of you gals/guys to stay in touch and be able to > sell/swap > fish at monthly or quarterly meetings. Maybe someone else up there has the > wherewithal to start up a small LFS or even just do something out of their > home/garage as a home-based business. Of course, you all could participate > at monthly meetings and auctions, even having your own little Yahoo > Group to > stay in touch so everyone knows what everyone else has for sale or > swap and > to make announcements. > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right > side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On > Behalf Of Amber Berglund > Sent: Saturday, December 05, 2009 4:49 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] questions about Yoyo loaches or other small > snail > eating loaches. > > My LFS won't buy anything from me, I could give them to him for free > perhaps > (yeah right, not doing that). The owner is a jerk, I don't even shop there > when he's working. > > Amber > > Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > > > > You already have two Angelfish in that 55G... right? You have to be > > careful about bioload since most loaches need to be in shoals of five > > or more. > > > > How many times have the Angel's mated and eaten their eggs? Maybe you > > could have a divider ready for next time and separate the adults from > > the eggs as soon as they lay the eggs... if you want them to live. > > Will your LFS buy Angelfish from you? > > > > Here's what Mongabay says about Suggested Companions for P. scalare... > > (Loaches - Botia, et al, aren't on the list... Sorry!) > > > > SC: Catfish (Armored, Pimelodids, Doradids, Loricarids), characins > > (Headstanders, hatchetfish, larger schooling tetras), cichlids > > (Angelfish, Discus, Waroo, Acaras, Ram, Eartheaters), gouramis, > > livebearers that can tolerate neutral water conditions. > > > > Maybe a school of Tetras and a Clown Pleco for additional algae > > control to help the Mystery Snails? Or a pair of pretty Rams who would > > take the other end of the tank for their breeding area? I think I've > > read that it's best to get one male and several females until he decides > which one he wants... > > God, I wish I was a fish! LOL The leftover females could populate your > > 10G tanks as well... or sell them to the LFS. I'm surprised to see > > Gourami's on the list so that leaves you plenty of options also but > > the non-dwarf's get pretty big. > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>> > (Links to any articles referenced in > > above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels > > and also under Archives by Year, Month) > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On Behalf Of Amber Berglund > > Sent: Saturday, December 05, 2009 2:37 PM > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] questions about Yoyo loaches or other small > > snail eating loaches. > > > > So in other words they would eat any snail, even my big ones ;) LOL. > > That's all I needed to know about whether I should get them for that > > tank or not. I'm considering them for the Angelfish tank since they > > still haven't had any babies (keep eating their eggs, oh well). Should > > I get semi-aggressive loaches if I put them in that tank? I suppose > > more aggressive ones might hurt the Angel's. > > > > Amber > > > > Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > > > > > > Well, worse case if you forget to take the food out is that the > > > snails will eat it all and reproduce even more since most snails are > > > opportunistic breeders. That should be enough to make you remember > > > to take it out the next morning. > > > > > > Or, you could tie a string around your finger when you put the leaf > > > in at night and when you wake up in the morning with your finger > > > swollen because you tied the string too tight, that will also remind > > > you about the leaf of lettuce or spinach. > > > > > > Of course, be careful if your fish eat the spinach as it could > > > result in Popeye! Arrr! Arrr! Or should that be > > > A-gah-gah-gah-gah-gah-gah :-D > > > http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KYK3Fz6pXnA > <http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KYK3Fz6pXnA> > > <http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KYK3Fz6pXnA > <http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KYK3Fz6pXnA>> > > > <http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KYK3Fz6pXnA > <http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KYK3Fz6pXnA> > > <http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KYK3Fz6pXnA > <http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KYK3Fz6pXnA>>> > > > > > > I'm not sure how effective loaches are on MTS since their shells are > > > so hard and they have trap doors. I don't think they'll discriminate > > > against eating your Mystery Snails, regardless of size. > > > > > > If you get snail eating loaches for the tank, don't plan on keeping > > > snails in that tank any longer. > > > > > > There are also these Assassin Snails, Anentome helena, > > > > > > http://forums.loaches.com/viewtopic.php?t=12094&postdays=0&postorder=a > <http://forums.loaches.com/viewtopic.php?t=12094&postdays=0&postorder=a> > > > <http://forums.loaches.com/viewtopic.php?t=12094&postdays=0&postorder= > <http://forums.loaches.com/viewtopic.php?t=12094&postdays=0&postorder=> > > a> > > > sc&sta > > > > > > <http://forums.loaches.com/viewtopic.php?t=12094&postdays=0&postorder= > <http://forums.loaches.com/viewtopic.php?t=12094&postdays=0&postorder=> > > > <http://forums.loaches.com/viewtopic.php?t=12094&postdays=0&postorder= > <http://forums.loaches.com/viewtopic.php?t=12094&postdays=0&postorder=> > > > > > > asc&sta> rt=0 (five page thread) but they would also go after your > > > Mystery Snails. > > > Of course, you could always move the Assassin Snails to one of your > > > 10G's after they do their thing and then put your Mystery Snails > > > back into the 125G. Supposedly, Assassin Snails do not breed much > > > You couldn't do this with the YoYo's or any other loaches. On a > > > regular basis, and when you get too many Mystery Snails, throw some > > > into the 10G Assassin Snail tank for them to eat. > > > > > > Check eBay and Aquabid for sellers of these snails. > > > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>> > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>>> > > (Links to any articles referenced in > > > above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under > > > Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On Behalf Of Amber Berglund > > > Sent: Saturday, December 05, 2009 1:40 PM > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > Subject: [AquaticLife] questions about Yoyo loaches or other small > > > snail eating loaches. > > > > > > I was considering picking up some yoyo loaches at some point for my > > > 125 gallon tank, but I have a concern or two first. I'm looking for > > > a smaller loach that eats smaller pond/pest snails but isn't > > > aggressive at the same time, so if there's a better one than yoyo > > > loaches please feel free to let me know, LOL. My biggest concern is > > > this; Do I need to take all my adult mystery snails out of the tank > > > when I add any snail eating loaches, or are my adult size mystery > > > snails too big for them to kill and eat? My goal is to get rid of my > > > ramshorn snails, a good portion of the MTS, and some small pond > > > snails (couldn't find any other name for them when searching for > > > them on google). If I put something in the tank I may very well > > > forget to take it out, so I haven't tried the lettuce method yet, I > > > didn't want to kill my fish by forgetting food in the tank on > accident. > > > > > > Amber > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 44943	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 12/5/2009
Subject: Re: Newbie, and Angelfish question

Tristan, Where are you located? I noticed you typed "2.25$", so I'm guessing not in the U.S.A since we would put the $ sign in front, as in $2.25. Knowing your general location (City or State or Country or Continent) helps us when we are giving advice since I know that many of the drugs we throw around as being available are not necessarily available in many other areas of the world. I'm sorry to hear that basic tap water dechlorinator is so expensive there. I get a 16 oz. bottle of API's Tap Water Conditioner for around $5.00 (online) which treats as much as 9,600 gallons of water. It not only acts as a dechlorinator but also treats for heavy metals which can be very harmful to fish and even more so to inverts if copper is one of the heavy metals. Are you able to purchase things online?? You need to contact your water company and find out what they disinfect the water supply with. As previously stated, if chlorine, then filling a container and letting it sit for 24-48 hours at room temp will allow the chlorine to outgas (but you may still have heavy metal issues) but if it's chloramine, you really do need to find an affordable dechlor product or you will have buckets of water sitting around for weeks and weeks waiting for the chloramine to break down. Chloramine is a compound made by binding Chlorine and Ammonia which makes it far more stable than Chlorine alone. Of course, there are many other disinfectants used around the world, other than chlorine and chloramine so you may have a completely different disinfectant to deal with. You need to know, so contact your water company ASAP. Do you use a gravel vacuum when siphoning water from your tank with weekly PWC's? If you don't, you need to. UGF's need this as much as tanks without UGF's... and possibly even more so. If detritus (decaying fish poop, uneaten food, etc.) is allowed to build up in the gravel, it will block the water flow of the UGF and then it further decays and turns into mulm/sludge underneath the UGF's bottom plate(s). This excess detritus and mulm becomes a breeding ground for many bad bacteria, as Ray pointed out in a recent post. BTW... there's nothing wrong with being a Mr. Mom!... well, except for maybe the diaper changing. LOL Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of greyclouds99 Sent: Saturday, December 05, 2009 7:33 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Newbie, and Angelfish question Hi Ray, Steve, and Lenny. I see more than a dozen of messages that I've read and need to answer. I admit that all these infos were mind blowing to me, and even for a second I was like "what the hell did I think I was doing by buying that 34g tank? wasn't I fine with Prince, my Crown Betta?". But, I realize that the most amazing hobbies in the world include "science" as a big portion of them. So, here I am, trying my best to learn more, not just to cure my Angelfish, but to keep my other fish healthier and then enjoy them better. I'm truely thankful for all of your concern and help. Here are follow-ups to what captured me most in the emails related to my "problem" who is currently breathing and swimming very normally and calmly and eating well in its H-tank, still not showing any signs of improving, but it's only been 12 hours since I started the treatment. Ray: * I have no idea if it's chlorine or chloramine, and unfortunately I don't use water conditioners, I thought they were too expensive while holding the water that I'm planning to use in a bucket for about 48 hours in room temp. should be enough to outgas the harmful stuff and do the job of a conditioner. (2.25$ for a bottle of 8 oz , enough to treat about 50 gallons of water) * I couldn't notice the popping eye at first. The first sign was a white dusty spot inside the eye's "lens", not on the center. And I'm sure that the eye didn't look popped when I was looking at it through the front glass, but now it's clearly popped when I look from both above and front directions. It's not "oozing" but there's a very small grey spot emerging from behind the eye, as if a tiny grey worm is trying to stick its head out! Only it's not a worm. * The Minocycline tablet I crushed to form the solution didn't dissolve, I had to stir it well and yet a small amount of yellow powder remained in the bottom, I remembered that most antibiotic syrups are also suspensions not solutions, so I just shaked well before pulling the needed dose using a syringe. * The difference between gram+and-bacteria, as you explained it, now makes perfect sense as why would some antibiotics affect the Gram+b and others the Gram-b more, it's not only absorbing a dye or not, it also includes "absorbing or letting-in" an antibiotic or not! wow! * My Angels usually do great in my water, they double size in no time, but eventually reach a 3-4" size (not including the tail)and stop growing. That's when they start laying eggs, sometimes earlier. * My 34 Gallon tank has been running for almost 20 months now I think, it's about 21" high, the substrate is fine seashore gravel about 1.5-2" deep at the back of the tank and 1" -1.5" at the front. I couldn't find an Ammonia test kit here. I do 25-35 PWC's with deep gravel vaccuming (down to the buttom) every 7-12 days, depending on how busy I am, what the parameters show (especially Nitrates) and how much of a priority the fish make at that time! I should mention that I keep an undergravel filter running all the time with a powerful power head. And yet I always pick debris from the gravel when I vaccum it, enough to turn the removed water into light brown. * All the many aquarium medications I found today didn't mention the active ingredient, neither were listed on the internet, they only contained brief info on the label saying wheather they were addressing external - internal - bacteria (both Gram +and- in the same bottle)- fungi- parasites etc.. But I found both NALIDIXIC ACID and ERYTHROMYCIN in tablet forms made for HUMANS. I'm waiting for your advise concerning the pop-eye (if decided to be the illness) or the blood inside the lens that may require some treatment. Is the Minocycline I'm using enough? or should-can I add to that? I searched and found that the conbination of two antibiotics is possible if they were BOTH either killing the bacteria OR BOTH preventing it of multiplying. But I don't know which ones are 'stoppers' and which are.. emm.. 'castraters' :( Lenny: * Although sometimes I feel like both , a He and a She, especially when changing diapers and preparing formula bottles "I'm not complaining here!", but I'm essentially and hopefully considered a HE. I grew abroad and passed almost half of my life away from home. Having this hobby where I live now is bit of a challenge, as there aren't many choices and facilities concerning fishkeeping. * The treatment will only consume 1.5 tablets, so I can be confident when throwing whatever solution remains and prepare a new one every other day. * I'll follow your advise and gently squeeze the filter's sponge from my 34g over the new H-tank every few days to booste the cycline process, especially if there was chloramine in the water. Perhaps srubbing some build up from inside the filter into the Htank , as the articles you forwarded suggest. * I think my Pleco is a Iquitos Tiger Pleco , although he/she's too young to show all these streaks. * I was already planning on turning that 15gallon H-tank into a permanent tank, and was just wondering which species should I move to it. So, thanks for all that help. Now I'm wondering if my fish will be mad at me in the future when I use a bucket as a H-tank! Steve: * I almost followed your father's steps once (lol), I've bred Angelfish in my 34Gallon tank before turning it into a community tank, and the few surviving fry lived up to 2 weeks before being mysteriously dead. I could see them swimming around with their tiny transparent boddies. well, I have never been a good follower in any aspect anyway! Sorry about the long post, you guys overwhelmed me with all the infos and questions about my tank and fish, and I had to reply all of that to know more and care more for my fish. Thanks. Tristan

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 44944	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 12/5/2009
Subject: Re: questions about Yoyo loaches or other small snail eating loaches

You'd have to ask God (or Mother Nature) but as far as I know, there aren't any or many loaches down in S. America... at least not that I recall reading about. I did read that there are some native species in N. America though... but most seem to come from Asia. Remember, there are exceptions to every rule so I'm sure there are plenty of folks out there successfully keeping loaches and angelfish in the same tank but I hate for you to order some online and have them delivered, only to find they are not working. Of course, there's always that vertical shelving where you can stack another 55G (or two) up the wall in the same floor space, if they don't work out in one of your existing tanks. ;-) Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Amber Berglund Sent: Saturday, December 05, 2009 8:35 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] questions about Yoyo loaches or other small snail eating loaches. I wonder why loaches aren't compatible, they're able to defend themselves (well a good portion are at least, not hillstreams). My 2 angel's are pretty aggressive (since they're a mated pair I assume), so I was trying to consider something that they couldn't harm. I am thinking that assassin snails are my only choice in the Angel tank at least. Good thing there are some auctions on aquabid for them, so I can find them if I decide to get them. I'm still considering my choices in the 125 gallon tank for the future. I'm not getting skunk loaches or clown loaches for that tank at all, so my LFS is out for the near future (they don't order fish very often in the winter). I gave up on rams awhile back, I can't keep them alive for more than a couple of months, they don't like my tanks or water or something. They were fine before I started adding crushed coral, perhaps I made my water too hard for them or something on accident. I can't please everyone, gotta go with the masses ;) LOL. Amber Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > > You already have two Angelfish in that 55G... right? You have to be > careful about bioload since most loaches need to be in shoals of five > or more. > > How many times have the Angel's mated and eaten their eggs? Maybe you > could have a divider ready for next time and separate the adults from > the eggs as soon as they lay the eggs... if you want them to live. > Will your LFS buy Angelfish from you? > > Here's what Mongabay says about Suggested Companions for P. scalare... > (Loaches - Botia, et al, aren't on the list... Sorry!) > > SC: Catfish (Armored, Pimelodids, Doradids, Loricarids), characins > (Headstanders, hatchetfish, larger schooling tetras), cichlids > (Angelfish, Discus, Waroo, Acaras, Ram, Eartheaters), gouramis, > livebearers that can tolerate neutral water conditions. > > Maybe a school of Tetras and a Clown Pleco for additional algae > control to help the Mystery Snails? Or a pair of pretty Rams who would > take the other end of the tank for their breeding area? I think I've > read that it's best to get one male and several females until he decides which one he wants... > God, I wish I was a fish! LOL The leftover females could populate your > 10G tanks as well... or sell them to the LFS. I'm surprised to see > Gourami's on the list so that leaves you plenty of options also but > the non-dwarf's get pretty big. > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> (Links to any articles referenced in > above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels > and also under Archives by Year, Month) > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On Behalf Of Amber Berglund > Sent: Saturday, December 05, 2009 2:37 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] questions about Yoyo loaches or other small > snail eating loaches. > > So in other words they would eat any snail, even my big ones ;) LOL. > That's all I needed to know about whether I should get them for that > tank or not. I'm considering them for the Angelfish tank since they > still haven't had any babies (keep eating their eggs, oh well). Should > I get semi-aggressive loaches if I put them in that tank? I suppose > more aggressive ones might hurt the Angel's. > > Amber > > Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > > > > Well, worse case if you forget to take the food out is that the > > snails will eat it all and reproduce even more since most snails are > > opportunistic breeders. That should be enough to make you remember > > to take it out the next morning. > > > > Or, you could tie a string around your finger when you put the leaf > > in at night and when you wake up in the morning with your finger > > swollen because you tied the string too tight, that will also remind > > you about the leaf of lettuce or spinach. > > > > Of course, be careful if your fish eat the spinach as it could > > result in Popeye! Arrr! Arrr! Or should that be > > A-gah-gah-gah-gah-gah-gah :-D > > http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KYK3Fz6pXnA > <http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KYK3Fz6pXnA> > > <http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KYK3Fz6pXnA > <http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KYK3Fz6pXnA>> > > > > I'm not sure how effective loaches are on MTS since their shells are > > so hard and they have trap doors. I don't think they'll discriminate > > against eating your Mystery Snails, regardless of size. > > > > If you get snail eating loaches for the tank, don't plan on keeping > > snails in that tank any longer. > > > > There are also these Assassin Snails, Anentome helena, > > > http://forums.loaches.com/viewtopic.php?t=12094&postdays=0&postorder=a > <http://forums.loaches.com/viewtopic.php?t=12094&postdays=0&postorder= > a> > > sc&sta > > > <http://forums.loaches.com/viewtopic.php?t=12094&postdays=0&postorder= > <http://forums.loaches.com/viewtopic.php?t=12094&postdays=0&postorder= > > > > asc&sta> rt=0 (five page thread) but they would also go after your > > Mystery Snails. > > Of course, you could always move the Assassin Snails to one of your > > 10G's after they do their thing and then put your Mystery Snails > > back into the 125G. Supposedly, Assassin Snails do not breed much > > You couldn't do this with the YoYo's or any other loaches. On a > > regular basis, and when you get too many Mystery Snails, throw some > > into the 10G Assassin Snail tank for them to eat. > > > > Check eBay and Aquabid for sellers of these snails. > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>> > (Links to any articles referenced in > > above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under > > Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On Behalf Of Amber Berglund > > Sent: Saturday, December 05, 2009 1:40 PM > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > Subject: [AquaticLife] questions about Yoyo loaches or other small > > snail eating loaches. > > > > I was considering picking up some yoyo loaches at some point for my > > 125 gallon tank, but I have a concern or two first. I'm looking for > > a smaller loach that eats smaller pond/pest snails but isn't > > aggressive at the same time, so if there's a better one than yoyo > > loaches please feel free to let me know, LOL. My biggest concern is > > this; Do I need to take all my adult mystery snails out of the tank > > when I add any snail eating loaches, or are my adult size mystery > > snails too big for them to kill and eat? My goal is to get rid of my > > ramshorn snails, a good portion of the MTS, and some small pond > > snails (couldn't find any other name for them when searching for > > them on google). If I put something in the tank I may very well > > forget to take it out, so I haven't tried the lettuce method yet, I > > didn't want to kill my fish by forgetting food in the tank on accident. > > > > Amber

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 44945	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 12/5/2009
Subject: Re: questions about Yoyo loaches or other small snail eating loaches

All the more reason for the need for an aquarium society. There's an old "Sales and Marketing" story that popped into my head about two shoe salesman. Rather than type it all out, here's a couple of blogs that I found with Google. http://slimsexyandstrong.blogspot.com/2009/07/motivational-monday-two-shoe-s alesman.html http://www.xomba.com/two_shoe_salesmen_africa_which_one_are_you The basis for any new business is "Find a need and fill it" and there certainly seems to be a LOT of need up there. Heck, it might even allow you to one day tell FEDEX... http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EPrSVkTRb24 Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Amber Berglund Sent: Saturday, December 05, 2009 8:40 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] questions about Yoyo loaches or other small snail eating loaches. Our island is a mouth full, LOL. It's called Revillagigedo (don't ask me what it means, LOL). Here ya go, so you don't have to search for it ;) http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Revillagigedo_Island There are a few fish owners on the island that I've met, most of them know NOTHING I swear... I gave up lecturing, they look at me like I'm stupid when I start to explain why their 3 oscars and goldfish keep dieing in their 55 gallon tank *sigh*. Someone needs to make a pamphlet that you can print out ;) LOL. Even my coworker looked at me oddly when I told him he can't keep pond goldfish in a 10 gallon tank, especially several of them :( I offered him guppy's instead, LOL. Amber Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > > You need to start the SAAS - South Alaska Aquarium Society... or maybe the > KMAS - Ketchikan-Metlakatla Aquarium Society.. or KAIAS - > Ketchikan-Annette > Island Aquarium Society. Yeah.. I used Google Earth to look around to see > how close you were to another city/island up there.. lol.. looks like > a nice > lil ferry ride between your islands. Your island looks bigger but Annette > Island looks more developed with cities spread out and roads all over > their > island. Heck, I couldn't even find a name for your island. Doing this > would enable all of you gals/guys to stay in touch and be able to > sell/swap > fish at monthly or quarterly meetings. Maybe someone else up there has the > wherewithal to start up a small LFS or even just do something out of their > home/garage as a home-based business. Of course, you all could participate > at monthly meetings and auctions, even having your own little Yahoo > Group to > stay in touch so everyone knows what everyone else has for sale or > swap and > to make announcements. > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right > side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On > Behalf Of Amber Berglund > Sent: Saturday, December 05, 2009 4:49 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] questions about Yoyo loaches or other small > snail > eating loaches. > > My LFS won't buy anything from me, I could give them to him for free > perhaps > (yeah right, not doing that). The owner is a jerk, I don't even shop there > when he's working. > > Amber > > Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > > > > You already have two Angelfish in that 55G... right? You have to be > > careful about bioload since most loaches need to be in shoals of five > > or more. > > > > How many times have the Angel's mated and eaten their eggs? Maybe you > > could have a divider ready for next time and separate the adults from > > the eggs as soon as they lay the eggs... if you want them to live. > > Will your LFS buy Angelfish from you? > > > > Here's what Mongabay says about Suggested Companions for P. scalare... > > (Loaches - Botia, et al, aren't on the list... Sorry!) > > > > SC: Catfish (Armored, Pimelodids, Doradids, Loricarids), characins > > (Headstanders, hatchetfish, larger schooling tetras), cichlids > > (Angelfish, Discus, Waroo, Acaras, Ram, Eartheaters), gouramis, > > livebearers that can tolerate neutral water conditions. > > > > Maybe a school of Tetras and a Clown Pleco for additional algae > > control to help the Mystery Snails? Or a pair of pretty Rams who would > > take the other end of the tank for their breeding area? I think I've > > read that it's best to get one male and several females until he decides > which one he wants... > > God, I wish I was a fish! LOL The leftover females could populate your > > 10G tanks as well... or sell them to the LFS. I'm surprised to see > > Gourami's on the list so that leaves you plenty of options also but > > the non-dwarf's get pretty big. > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>> > (Links to any articles referenced in > > above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels > > and also under Archives by Year, Month) > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On Behalf Of Amber Berglund > > Sent: Saturday, December 05, 2009 2:37 PM > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] questions about Yoyo loaches or other small > > snail eating loaches. > > > > So in other words they would eat any snail, even my big ones ;) LOL. > > That's all I needed to know about whether I should get them for that > > tank or not. I'm considering them for the Angelfish tank since they > > still haven't had any babies (keep eating their eggs, oh well). Should > > I get semi-aggressive loaches if I put them in that tank? I suppose > > more aggressive ones might hurt the Angel's. > > > > Amber > > > > Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > > > > > > Well, worse case if you forget to take the food out is that the > > > snails will eat it all and reproduce even more since most snails are > > > opportunistic breeders. That should be enough to make you remember > > > to take it out the next morning. > > > > > > Or, you could tie a string around your finger when you put the leaf > > > in at night and when you wake up in the morning with your finger > > > swollen because you tied the string too tight, that will also remind > > > you about the leaf of lettuce or spinach. > > > > > > Of course, be careful if your fish eat the spinach as it could > > > result in Popeye! Arrr! Arrr! Or should that be > > > A-gah-gah-gah-gah-gah-gah :-D > > > http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KYK3Fz6pXnA > <http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KYK3Fz6pXnA> > > <http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KYK3Fz6pXnA > <http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KYK3Fz6pXnA>> > > > <http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KYK3Fz6pXnA > <http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KYK3Fz6pXnA> > > <http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KYK3Fz6pXnA > <http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KYK3Fz6pXnA>>> > > > > > > I'm not sure how effective loaches are on MTS since their shells are > > > so hard and they have trap doors. I don't think they'll discriminate > > > against eating your Mystery Snails, regardless of size. > > > > > > If you get snail eating loaches for the tank, don't plan on keeping > > > snails in that tank any longer. > > > > > > There are also these Assassin Snails, Anentome helena, > > > > > > http://forums.loaches.com/viewtopic.php?t=12094&postdays=0&postorder=a > <http://forums.loaches.com/viewtopic.php?t=12094&postdays=0&postorder=a> > > > <http://forums.loaches.com/viewtopic.php?t=12094&postdays=0&postorder= > <http://forums.loaches.com/viewtopic.php?t=12094&postdays=0&postorder=> > > a> > > > sc&sta > > > > > > <http://forums.loaches.com/viewtopic.php?t=12094&postdays=0&postorder= > <http://forums.loaches.com/viewtopic.php?t=12094&postdays=0&postorder=> > > > <http://forums.loaches.com/viewtopic.php?t=12094&postdays=0&postorder= > <http://forums.loaches.com/viewtopic.php?t=12094&postdays=0&postorder=> > > > > > > asc&sta> rt=0 (five page thread) but they would also go after your > > > Mystery Snails. > > > Of course, you could always move the Assassin Snails to one of your > > > 10G's after they do their thing and then put your Mystery Snails > > > back into the 125G. Supposedly, Assassin Snails do not breed much > > > You couldn't do this with the YoYo's or any other loaches. On a > > > regular basis, and when you get too many Mystery Snails, throw some > > > into the 10G Assassin Snail tank for them to eat. > > > > > > Check eBay and Aquabid for sellers of these snails. > > > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>> > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>>> > > (Links to any articles referenced in > > > above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under > > > Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On Behalf Of Amber Berglund > > > Sent: Saturday, December 05, 2009 1:40 PM > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > Subject: [AquaticLife] questions about Yoyo loaches or other small > > > snail eating loaches. > > > > > > I was considering picking up some yoyo loaches at some point for my > > > 125 gallon tank, but I have a concern or two first. I'm looking for > > > a smaller loach that eats smaller pond/pest snails but isn't > > > aggressive at the same time, so if there's a better one than yoyo > > > loaches please feel free to let me know, LOL. My biggest concern is > > > this; Do I need to take all my adult mystery snails out of the tank > > > when I add any snail eating loaches, or are my adult size mystery > > > snails too big for them to kill and eat? My goal is to get rid of my > > > ramshorn snails, a good portion of the MTS, and some small pond > > > snails (couldn't find any other name for them when searching for > > > them on google). If I put something in the tank I may very well > > > forget to take it out, so I haven't tried the lettuce method yet, I > > > didn't want to kill my fish by forgetting food in the tank on > accident. > > > > > > Amber

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 44946	From: greyclouds99	Date: 12/5/2009
Subject: Re: Newbie, and Angelfish question

Hi Lenny, The only available conditioner is the one I mentioned. However I'm biting the knife and buying one or two bottles on my next trip to the city, at least to treat the H-tank's newly added water, so the fish won't be more stressed. As for the guys in the main tanks, my God help them now as he did before! Yes I'm using proper gravel vacuums, I have two sizes to do the job. but when I'm active enough to do PWC within the week (with 3-4days apart between 20-30% PWC's) then I don't vacuum, only change water. BTW, I wasn't complaining, I love to participate in every aspect of my only daughter's life, except for when the diaper is... you know! Oh.. I'll try to contact the water supply company here to ask about the chlorine/ chloramine thing. Tristan --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@...> wrote: > > Tristan, > > Where are you located? I noticed you typed "2.25$", so I'm guessing not in > the U.S.A since we would put the $ sign in front, as in $2.25. Knowing your > general location (City or State or Country or Continent) helps us when we > are giving advice since I know that many of the drugs we throw around as > being available are not necessarily available in many other areas of the > world. > > I'm sorry to hear that basic tap water dechlorinator is so expensive there. > I get a 16 oz. bottle of API's Tap Water Conditioner for around $5.00 > (online) which treats as much as 9,600 gallons of water. It not only acts > as a dechlorinator but also treats for heavy metals which can be very > harmful to fish and even more so to inverts if copper is one of the heavy > metals. Are you able to purchase things online?? > > You need to contact your water company and find out what they disinfect the > water supply with. As previously stated, if chlorine, then filling a > container and letting it sit for 24-48 hours at room temp will allow the > chlorine to outgas (but you may still have heavy metal issues) but if it's > chloramine, you really do need to find an affordable dechlor product or you > will have buckets of water sitting around for weeks and weeks waiting for > the chloramine to break down. Chloramine is a compound made by binding > Chlorine and Ammonia which makes it far more stable than Chlorine alone. Of > course, there are many other disinfectants used around the world, other than > chlorine and chloramine so you may have a completely different disinfectant > to deal with. You need to know, so contact your water company ASAP. > > Do you use a gravel vacuum when siphoning water from your tank with weekly > PWC's? If you don't, you need to. UGF's need this as much as tanks without > UGF's... and possibly even more so. If detritus (decaying fish poop, > uneaten food, etc.) is allowed to build up in the gravel, it will block the > water flow of the UGF and then it further decays and turns into mulm/sludge > underneath the UGF's bottom plate(s). This excess detritus and mulm becomes > a breeding ground for many bad bacteria, as Ray pointed out in a recent > post. > > BTW... there's nothing wrong with being a Mr. Mom!... well, except for maybe > the diaper changing. LOL > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 44947	From: sevenspringss@wmconnect.com	Date: 12/5/2009
Subject: Re: Newbie, and Angelfish question

Hi \\Steve//, Yeah, I've seen a few older guys (I was just a youngster back then) breeding Angels back then, about 60 years ago. I only had Guppies then in a small homemade 8 gallon tank, and before that, Goldfish. I used the 75 years (around 1934) just off the top of my head in approximating when Angelfish were first starting to be bred, from stuff I've read in "The Aquarium" magazines -- without really researching those issues. Shortly after my uncle gave me my first truly tropical "store-bought" 15 gallon tank in '51, I remember him bringing me about a half-dozen pea+ (half-dime) size tank-raised Angels that he got from his local tavern keeper's community tank. That wouldn't have been much more recently than when your father was breeding them (about 3 years prior to that). I do recall reading that Angelfish were not at all easy to first get to breed back then, but it has been like that with many wild-caught fish throughout the long history of the hobby. Thanks for the tip on the available "The Aquarium" magazines. Just this past week I got 3 issues from 1961, from John Mangan, that I up until now I was just not able to find. This leaves only one issue (February 1968) that I'm missing out of all of them; otherwise, I have them all from May 1932 up until the last one (December 1971) published. I find them invaluable for information that's still holds true today. I started buying them in 1953 (June issue), again, after my uncle gave me my first issue (May '53) which up until then I was not aware of it being published -- still a great magazine for anyone interested in such reading. I'll break out some of those earlier magazines in the morning to check them out for Angelfish articles, as to when they might have first started to be bred and will fill you in when I find something. There's got to be something there on that topic. Later, Ray [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 44948	From: Deenerz@aol.com	Date: 12/6/2009
Subject: Re: questions about Yoyo loaches or other small snail eating loaches

Amber, you should give it a try. Many small aquarium societies meet in each others home for small get togethers to swap stories, sell fish, give presentations, or workshops. You can also network with each other about doing group buys. As difficult as it is for you to get items shipped to you in Alaska a group buy on products or fish might make it more affordable for all of you. You might also as a group make it more appealing for your local shop to work with your new aquarium society. Many of the LFS's in my area work with the aquarium societies and even donate fish or products to help out. Some even offer discounts. One even participates in club events and lets us have our Board of directors meetings in his shop. -Mike -----Original Message----- From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@...> To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Sat, Dec 5, 2009 6:32 pm Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] questions about Yoyo loaches or other small snail eating loaches.   You need to start the SAAS - South Alaska Aquarium Society... or maybe the KMAS - Ketchikan-Metlakatla Aquarium Society.. or KAIAS - Ketchikan-Annette Island Aquarium Society. Yeah.. I used Google Earth to look around to see how close you were to another city/island up there.. lol.. looks like a nice lil ferry ride between your islands. Your island looks bigger but Annette Island looks more developed with cities spread out and roads all over their island. Heck, I couldn't even find a name for your island. Doing this would enable all of you gals/guys to stay in touch and be able to sell/swap fish at monthly or quarterly meetings. Maybe someone else up there has the wherewithal to start up a small LFS or even just do something out of their home/garage as a home-based business. Of course, you all could participate at monthly meetings and auctions, even having your own little Yahoo Group to stay in touch so everyone knows what everyone else has for sale or swap and to make announcements. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Amber Berglund Sent: Saturday, December 05, 2009 4:49 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] questions about Yoyo loaches or other small snail eating loaches. My LFS won't buy anything from me, I could give them to him for free perhaps (yeah right, not doing that). The owner is a jerk, I don't even shop there when he's working. Amber Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > > You already have two Angelfish in that 55G... right? You have to be > careful about bioload since most loaches need to be in shoals of five > or more. > > How many times have the Angel's mated and eaten their eggs? Maybe you > could have a divider ready for next time and separate the adults from > the eggs as soon as they lay the eggs... if you want them to live. > Will your LFS buy Angelfish from you? > > Here's what Mongabay says about Suggested Companions for P. scalare... > (Loaches - Botia, et al, aren't on the list... Sorry!) > > SC: Catfish (Armored, Pimelodids, Doradids, Loricarids), characins > (Headstanders, hatchetfish, larger schooling tetras), cichlids > (Angelfish, Discus, Waroo, Acaras, Ram, Eartheaters), gouramis, > livebearers that can tolerate neutral water conditions. > > Maybe a school of Tetras and a Clown Pleco for additional algae > control to help the Mystery Snails? Or a pair of pretty Rams who would > take the other end of the tank for their breeding area? I think I've > read that it's best to get one male and several females until he decides which one he wants... > God, I wish I was a fish! LOL The leftover females could populate your > 10G tanks as well... or sell them to the LFS. I'm surprised to see > Gourami's on the list so that leaves you plenty of options also but > the non-dwarf's get pretty big. > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> (Links to any articles referenced in > above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels > and also under Archives by Year, Month) > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On Behalf Of Amber Berglund > Sent: Saturday, December 05, 2009 2:37 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] questions about Yoyo loaches or other small > snail eating loaches. > > So in other words they would eat any snail, even my big ones ;) LOL. > That's all I needed to know about whether I should get them for that > tank or not. I'm considering them for the Angelfish tank since they > still haven't had any babies (keep eating their eggs, oh well). Should > I get semi-aggressive loaches if I put them in that tank? I suppose > more aggressive ones might hurt the Angel's. > > Amber > > Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > > > > Well, worse case if you forget to take the food out is that the > > snails will eat it all and reproduce even more since most snails are > > opportunistic breeders. That should be enough to make you remember > > to take it out the next morning. > > > > Or, you could tie a string around your finger when you put the leaf > > in at night and when you wake up in the morning with your finger > > swollen because you tied the string too tight, that will also remind > > you about the leaf of lettuce or spinach. > > > > Of course, be careful if your fish eat the spinach as it could > > result in Popeye! Arrr! Arrr! Or should that be > > A-gah-gah-gah-gah-gah-gah :-D > > http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KYK3Fz6pXnA > <http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KYK3Fz6pXnA> > > <http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KYK3Fz6pXnA > <http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KYK3Fz6pXnA>> > > > > I'm not sure how effective loaches are on MTS since their shells are > > so hard and they have trap doors. I don't think they'll discriminate > > against eating your Mystery Snails, regardless of size. > > > > If you get snail eating loaches for the tank, don't plan on keeping > > snails in that tank any longer. > > > > There are also these Assassin Snails, Anentome helena, > > > http://forums.loaches.com/viewtopic.php?t=12094&postdays=0&postorder=a > <http://forums.loaches.com/viewtopic.php?t=12094&postdays=0&postor der= > a> > > sc&sta > > > <http://forums.loaches.com/viewtopic.php?t=12094&postdays=0&postor der= > <http://forums.loaches.com/viewtopic.php?t=12094&postdays=0&postor der= > > > > asc&sta> rt=0 (five page thread) but they would also go after your > > Mystery Snails. > > Of course, you could always move the Assassin Snails to one of your > > 10G's after they do their thing and then put your Mystery Snails > > back into the 125G. Supposedly, Assassin Snails do not breed much > > You couldn't do this with the YoYo's or any other loaches. On a > > regular basis, and when you get too many Mystery Snails, throw some > > into the 10G Assassin Snail tank for them to eat. > > > > Check eBay and Aquabid for sellers of these snails. > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>> > (Links to any articles referenced in > > above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under > > Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On Behalf Of Amber Berglund > > Sent: Saturday, December 05, 2009 1:40 PM > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > Subject: [AquaticLife] questions about Yoyo loaches or other small > > snail eating loaches. > > > > I was considering picking up some yoyo loaches at some point for my > > 125 gallon tank, but I have a concern or two first. I'm looking for > > a smaller loach that eats smaller pond/pest snails but isn't > > aggressive at the same time, so if there's a better one than yoyo > > loaches please feel free to let me know, LOL. My biggest concern is > > this; Do I need to take all my adult mystery snails out of the tank > > when I add any snail eating loaches, or are my adult size mystery > > snails too big for them to kill and eat? My goal is to get rid of my > > ramshorn snails, a good portion of the MTS, and some small pond > > snails (couldn't find any other name for them when searching for > > them on google). If I put something in the tank I may very well > > forget to take it out, so I haven't tried the lettuce method yet, I > > didn't want to kill my fish by forgetting food in the tank on accident. > > > > Amber

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 44949	From: harry perry	Date: 12/6/2009
Subject: Another snail option.

http://arizonainverts.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=204 I didn't know these existed. They are assassin snails. They love MTS. Harry [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 44950	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 12/6/2009
Subject: Re: Another snail option.

I read about them a year or so ago. I mentioned them in an earlier answer to Amber in her thread about YoYo loaches. There's a five page forum thread on and about them here... http://forums.loaches.com/viewtopic.php?t=12094&postdays=0&postorder=asc&sta rt=0 The author on the forum link you found did do a lot of research for their article though. I've saved that link in my Snails Favorites folder. AMBER... WARNING... it seems Assassin Snails will also eat shrimp if the opportunity arises, such as a dumb shrimp that doesn't run/swim out the way or something like that. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of harry perry Sent: Sunday, December 06, 2009 8:37 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Another snail option. http://arizonainverts.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=204 I didn't know these existed. They are assassin snails. They love MTS. Harry

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 44951	From: Dora Smith	Date: 12/6/2009
Subject: Can I treat the flukes or whatever with miconazole?

Can I treat the flukes or whatever with miconazole? I have plenty of that, and I won't be able to buy praziwhatever for a week and a half; I'm flat broke. If so, what exactly do I have to do with my filter media? Yours, Dora Smith Austin, TX tiggernut24@... [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 44952	From: Dora Smith	Date: 12/6/2009
Subject: Are you sure this is gill flukes?

I've been watching those fish closely, and reading alot about gill flukes, and tehy aren't doing anything that suggests gill flukes. They aren't swimming strangely, breathing strangely, acting lethargic, or rubbing. I do see occasional signs of irritated gills, but nothing else. The fish seem perfectly healthy, and then I find them decomposing in the plastic plants. Yours, Dora Smith Austin, TX tiggernut24@...

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 44953	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 12/6/2009
Subject: Re: Can I treat the flukes or whatever with miconazole?

This page lists parasite control meds. I do not see miconazole listed. Look over the rest of the meds mentioned on this page. http://www.americanaquariumproducts.com/AquariumMedication3.html I knew I recognized "miconazole" and when doing a Google, I saw that it's the active ingredient in Monistat and Micatin (don't ask how I know about this... lol) and that it's an antifungal, not an antiparasite medication... so unless your fish have athletes foot or your female fish are showing signs of... ummmm.. well I think you get the picture, then I don't think miconazole would be the right treatment. I'm not even sure if salt would treat internal parasites.... not even gill flukes from what I recall... but you could put a pinch of salt per 10G for the benefits of better oxygen absorption through their gills in case it is gill flukes. From what you've said in another post, it may not be gill flukes. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Dora Smith Sent: Sunday, December 06, 2009 7:21 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Can I treat the flukes or whatever with miconazole? Can I treat the flukes or whatever with miconazole? I have plenty of that, and I won't be able to buy praziwhatever for a week and a half; I'm flat broke. If so, what exactly do I have to do with my filter media? Yours, Dora Smith Austin, TX tiggernut24@...

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 44954	From: Dora Smith	Date: 12/6/2009
Subject: Re: [Bulk] RE: [AquaticLife] Can I treat the flukes or whatever with

It's also antiparasitic, atleast in humans; it's often used to treat flagellate protozoa, like giardia. It is also used in humans to treat anaerobic bacteria, overgrowths of anaerobic bacteria from taking antibiotic, and heliobacter pylori. I've taken it for these problems. It is further used in humans to treat skin infections of follicle mites, and to treat roseaca. In birds it is used to treat giardia, and avian gastric yeast, which is a primitive bacteria. Yours, Dora Smith Austin, TX tiggernut24@... ----- Original Message ----- From: "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@...> To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Sunday, December 06, 2009 10:27 AM Subject: [Bulk] RE: [AquaticLife] Can I treat the flukes or whatever with miconazole? This page lists parasite control meds. I do not see miconazole listed. Look over the rest of the meds mentioned on this page. http://www.americanaquariumproducts.com/AquariumMedication3.html I knew I recognized "miconazole" and when doing a Google, I saw that it's the active ingredient in Monistat and Micatin (don't ask how I know about this... lol) and that it's an antifungal, not an antiparasite medication... so unless your fish have athletes foot or your female fish are showing signs of... ummmm.. well I think you get the picture, then I don't think miconazole would be the right treatment. I'm not even sure if salt would treat internal parasites.... not even gill flukes from what I recall... but you could put a pinch of salt per 10G for the benefits of better oxygen absorption through their gills in case it is gill flukes. From what you've said in another post, it may not be gill flukes. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Dora Smith Sent: Sunday, December 06, 2009 7:21 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Can I treat the flukes or whatever with miconazole? Can I treat the flukes or whatever with miconazole? I have plenty of that, and I won't be able to buy praziwhatever for a week and a half; I'm flat broke. If so, what exactly do I have to do with my filter media? Yours, Dora Smith Austin, TX tiggernut24@... ------------------------------------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the home page. Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com to receive the digest, which includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com for the No E-Mail option where you will still be able to read messages on the group and post replies. Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com to receive individual e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 44955	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 12/6/2009
Subject: Re: [Bulk] RE: [AquaticLife] Can I treat the flukes or whatever with

Well, maybe Ray would know as I've never seen miconazole used in fish keeping before.. and none of the reputable sites that I use for reference purposes mention it either. These are the sites I turn to for treatment info and options when I do not know the answer off the top of my head. http://www.americanaquariumproducts.com/Aquarium_Medication.html http://www.americanaquariumproducts.com/AquariumMedication2.html http://www.americanaquariumproducts.com/AquariumMedication3.html http://thegab.org/Illness-and-Treatment/commonly-used-medications.html http://www.plecofanatics.com/articles/showentry.php?e=20&catid=popentries&or derby=views http://www.fishforums.net/index.php?showtopic=123440 http://edis.ifas.ufl.edu/fa084 (PLEASE NOTE THAT THIS UFL.EDU SITE HAS TONS OF VALUABLE INFORMATION ON FISH KEEPING, ALTHOUGH SOME OF IT GETS KIND OF DEEP AND IT'S NOT SPECIFICALLY FOR AQUARIUM FISH KEEPING, SINCE IT'S USED FOR TRAINING VETERINARIAN AND AQUACULTURE STUDENTS AT THE UNIVERSITY OF FLORIDA) In answer to your question about filter media, when treating with an antiparasite chemical/medication, other than removing the carbon, there should be nothing to worry about unless you are using something that also has antibiotic principles also in the drug. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Dora Smith Sent: Sunday, December 06, 2009 10:32 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [Bulk] RE: [AquaticLife] Can I treat the flukes or whatever with miconazole? It's also antiparasitic, atleast in humans; it's often used to treat flagellate protozoa, like giardia. It is also used in humans to treat anaerobic bacteria, overgrowths of anaerobic bacteria from taking antibiotic, and heliobacter pylori. I've taken it for these problems. It is further used in humans to treat skin infections of follicle mites, and to treat roseaca. In birds it is used to treat giardia, and avian gastric yeast, which is a primitive bacteria. Yours, Dora Smith Austin, TX tiggernut24@... ----- Original Message ----- From: "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@...> To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Sunday, December 06, 2009 10:27 AM Subject: [Bulk] RE: [AquaticLife] Can I treat the flukes or whatever with miconazole? This page lists parasite control meds. I do not see miconazole listed. Look over the rest of the meds mentioned on this page. http://www.americanaquariumproducts.com/AquariumMedication3.html I knew I recognized "miconazole" and when doing a Google, I saw that it's the active ingredient in Monistat and Micatin (don't ask how I know about this... lol) and that it's an antifungal, not an antiparasite medication... so unless your fish have athletes foot or your female fish are showing signs of... ummmm.. well I think you get the picture, then I don't think miconazole would be the right treatment. I'm not even sure if salt would treat internal parasites.... not even gill flukes from what I recall... but you could put a pinch of salt per 10G for the benefits of better oxygen absorption through their gills in case it is gill flukes. From what you've said in another post, it may not be gill flukes. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Dora Smith Sent: Sunday, December 06, 2009 7:21 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Can I treat the flukes or whatever with miconazole? Can I treat the flukes or whatever with miconazole? I have plenty of that, and I won't be able to buy praziwhatever for a week and a half; I'm flat broke. If so, what exactly do I have to do with my filter media? Yours, Dora Smith Austin, TX tiggernut24@...

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 44956	From: Dora Smith	Date: 12/6/2009
Subject: Re: Can I treat the flukes or whatever with miconazole?

I'll try this one more time. My e-mail program keeps sticking the word Bulk in front of half the mail from this list, and then multiplying it. Yours, Dora Smith Austin, TX tiggernut24@... ----- Original Message ----- From: "Dora Smith" <tiggernut24@...> To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Sunday, December 06, 2009 10:32 AM Subject: [Bulk] Re: [Bulk] RE: [AquaticLife] Can I treat the flukes or whatever with miconazole? > It's also antiparasitic, atleast in humans; it's often used to treat > flagellate protozoa, like giardia. It is also used in humans to treat > anaerobic bacteria, overgrowths of anaerobic bacteria from taking > antibiotic, and heliobacter pylori. I've taken it for these problems. It > is further used in humans to treat skin infections of follicle mites, and > to > treat roseaca. In birds it is used to treat giardia, and avian gastric > yeast, which is a primitive bacteria. > > Yours, > Dora Smith > Austin, TX > tiggernut24@... > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@...> > To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com> > Sent: Sunday, December 06, 2009 10:27 AM > Subject: [Bulk] RE: [AquaticLife] Can I treat the flukes or whatever with > miconazole? > > > This page lists parasite control meds. I do not see miconazole listed. > Look over the rest of the meds mentioned on this page. > > http://www.americanaquariumproducts.com/AquariumMedication3.html > > I knew I recognized "miconazole" and when doing a Google, I saw that it's > the active ingredient in Monistat and Micatin (don't ask how I know about > this... lol) and that it's an antifungal, not an antiparasite > medication... > so unless your fish have athletes foot or your female fish are showing > signs > of... ummmm.. well I think you get the picture, then I don't think > miconazole would be the right treatment. > > I'm not even sure if salt would treat internal parasites.... not even gill > flukes from what I recall... but you could put a pinch of salt per 10G for > the benefits of better oxygen absorption through their gills in case it is > gill flukes. From what you've said in another post, it may not be gill > flukes. > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right > side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On > Behalf Of Dora Smith > Sent: Sunday, December 06, 2009 7:21 AM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Subject: [AquaticLife] Can I treat the flukes or whatever with miconazole? > > Can I treat the flukes or whatever with miconazole? I have plenty of > that, > and I won't be able to buy praziwhatever for a week and a half; I'm flat > broke. > > If so, what exactly do I have to do with my filter media? > > Yours, > Dora Smith > Austin, TX > tiggernut24@... > > > > ------------------------------------ > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. > ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> > PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to > the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the > SUBJECT > LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- > <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. > > If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of unsubscribing, you > can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the > home page. > > Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com to receive the digest, which > includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email > > Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com for the No E-Mail option where > you will still be able to read messages on the group and post replies. > > Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com to receive individual > e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > ------------------------------------ > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. > ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> > PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to > the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the > SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- > <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. > > If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of unsubscribing, you > can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the > home page. > > Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com to receive the digest, which > includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email > > Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com for the No E-Mail option where > you will still be able to read messages on the group and post replies. > > Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com to receive individual > e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links > > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 44957	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 12/6/2009
Subject: Re: Can I treat the flukes or whatever with miconazole?

Can't you train or set your email client/program to NOT add the [BULK] designation to frequently received email? Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Dora Smith Sent: Sunday, December 06, 2009 10:43 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Can I treat the flukes or whatever with miconazole? I'll try this one more time. My e-mail program keeps sticking the word Bulk in front of half the mail from this list, and then multiplying it. Yours, Dora Smith Austin, TX tiggernut24@... ----- Original Message ----- From: "Dora Smith" <tiggernut24@...> To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Sunday, December 06, 2009 10:32 AM Subject: [Bulk] Re: [Bulk] RE: [AquaticLife] Can I treat the flukes or whatever with miconazole? > It's also antiparasitic, atleast in humans; it's often used to treat > flagellate protozoa, like giardia. It is also used in humans to treat > anaerobic bacteria, overgrowths of anaerobic bacteria from taking > antibiotic, and heliobacter pylori. I've taken it for these problems. > It is further used in humans to treat skin infections of follicle > mites, and to > treat roseaca. In birds it is used to treat giardia, and avian gastric > yeast, which is a primitive bacteria. > > Yours, > Dora Smith > Austin, TX > tiggernut24@... > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@...> > To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com> > Sent: Sunday, December 06, 2009 10:27 AM > Subject: [Bulk] RE: [AquaticLife] Can I treat the flukes or whatever > with miconazole? > > > This page lists parasite control meds. I do not see miconazole listed. > Look over the rest of the meds mentioned on this page. > > http://www.americanaquariumproducts.com/AquariumMedication3.html > > I knew I recognized "miconazole" and when doing a Google, I saw that > it's the active ingredient in Monistat and Micatin (don't ask how I > know about this... lol) and that it's an antifungal, not an > antiparasite medication... > so unless your fish have athletes foot or your female fish are showing > signs of... ummmm.. well I think you get the picture, then I don't > think miconazole would be the right treatment. > > I'm not even sure if salt would treat internal parasites.... not even > gill flukes from what I recall... but you could put a pinch of salt > per 10G for the benefits of better oxygen absorption through their > gills in case it is gill flukes. From what you've said in another > post, it may not be gill flukes. > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles > referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically > under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] > On Behalf Of Dora Smith > Sent: Sunday, December 06, 2009 7:21 AM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Subject: [AquaticLife] Can I treat the flukes or whatever with miconazole? > > Can I treat the flukes or whatever with miconazole? I have plenty of > that, > and I won't be able to buy praziwhatever for a week and a half; I'm > flat broke. > > If so, what exactly do I have to do with my filter media? > > Yours, > Dora Smith > Austin, TX > tiggernut24@... > > > > ------------------------------------ > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. > ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , > .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT > that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the > original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: > old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , > .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. > > If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of unsubscribing, > you can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My > Membership" on the home page. > > Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com to receive the digest, > which includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email > > Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com for the No E-Mail option > where you will still be able to read messages on the group and post replies. > > Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com to receive individual > e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > ------------------------------------ > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. > ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , > .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT > that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the > original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: > old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. > > If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of unsubscribing, > you can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My > Membership" on the home page. > > Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com to receive the digest, > which includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email > > Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com for the No E-Mail option > where you will still be able to read messages on the group and post replies. > > Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com to receive individual > e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links > > > ------------------------------------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the home page. Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com to receive the digest, which includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com for the No E-Mail option where you will still be able to read messages on the group and post replies. Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com to receive individual e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 44958	From: Dora Smith	Date: 12/6/2009
Subject: Re: Can I treat the flukes or whatever with miconazole?

Only online. I don't get my Yahoo mail online. I get it downloaded to my OE. I'm not going online every time Yahoo decides something is bulk. A quarter of my own mail to myself gets labelled bulk! Yours, Dora Smith Austin, TX tiggernut24@... ----- Original Message ----- From: "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@...> To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Sunday, December 06, 2009 11:21 AM Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Can I treat the flukes or whatever with miconazole? Can't you train or set your email client/program to NOT add the [BULK] designation to frequently received email? Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Dora Smith Sent: Sunday, December 06, 2009 10:43 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Can I treat the flukes or whatever with miconazole? I'll try this one more time. My e-mail program keeps sticking the word Bulk in front of half the mail from this list, and then multiplying it. Yours, Dora Smith Austin, TX tiggernut24@... ----- Original Message ----- From: "Dora Smith" <tiggernut24@...> To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Sunday, December 06, 2009 10:32 AM Subject: [Bulk] Re: [Bulk] RE: [AquaticLife] Can I treat the flukes or whatever with miconazole? > It's also antiparasitic, atleast in humans; it's often used to treat > flagellate protozoa, like giardia. It is also used in humans to treat > anaerobic bacteria, overgrowths of anaerobic bacteria from taking > antibiotic, and heliobacter pylori. I've taken it for these problems. > It is further used in humans to treat skin infections of follicle > mites, and to > treat roseaca. In birds it is used to treat giardia, and avian gastric > yeast, which is a primitive bacteria. > > Yours, > Dora Smith > Austin, TX > tiggernut24@... > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@...> > To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com> > Sent: Sunday, December 06, 2009 10:27 AM > Subject: [Bulk] RE: [AquaticLife] Can I treat the flukes or whatever > with miconazole? > > > This page lists parasite control meds. I do not see miconazole listed. > Look over the rest of the meds mentioned on this page. > > http://www.americanaquariumproducts.com/AquariumMedication3.html > > I knew I recognized "miconazole" and when doing a Google, I saw that > it's the active ingredient in Monistat and Micatin (don't ask how I > know about this... lol) and that it's an antifungal, not an > antiparasite medication... > so unless your fish have athletes foot or your female fish are showing > signs of... ummmm.. well I think you get the picture, then I don't > think miconazole would be the right treatment. > > I'm not even sure if salt would treat internal parasites.... not even > gill flukes from what I recall... but you could put a pinch of salt > per 10G for the benefits of better oxygen absorption through their > gills in case it is gill flukes. From what you've said in another > post, it may not be gill flukes. > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles > referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically > under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] > On Behalf Of Dora Smith > Sent: Sunday, December 06, 2009 7:21 AM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Subject: [AquaticLife] Can I treat the flukes or whatever with miconazole? > > Can I treat the flukes or whatever with miconazole? I have plenty of > that, > and I won't be able to buy praziwhatever for a week and a half; I'm > flat broke. > > If so, what exactly do I have to do with my filter media? > > Yours, > Dora Smith > Austin, TX > tiggernut24@... > > > > ------------------------------------ > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. > ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , > .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT > that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the > original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: > old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , > .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. > > If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of unsubscribing, > you can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My > Membership" on the home page. > > Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com to receive the digest, > which includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email > > Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com for the No E-Mail option > where you will still be able to read messages on the group and post replies. > > Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com to receive individual > e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > ------------------------------------ > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. > ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , > .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT > that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the > original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: > old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. > > If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of unsubscribing, > you can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My > Membership" on the home page. > > Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com to receive the digest, > which includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email > > Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com for the No E-Mail option > where you will still be able to read messages on the group and post replies. > > Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com to receive individual > e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links > > > ------------------------------------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the home page. Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com to receive the digest, which includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com for the No E-Mail option where you will still be able to read messages on the group and post replies. Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com to receive individual e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links ------------------------------------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the home page. Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com to receive the digest, which includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com for the No E-Mail option where you will still be able to read messages on the group and post replies. Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com to receive individual e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 44959	From: Dora Smith	Date: 12/6/2009
Subject: Re: [Bulk] RE: [Bulk] RE: [AquaticLife] Can I treat the flukes or wh

Fish zole. 250 mg tablets of metronidazole. Available from Thomas Laboratories. I bought it from Amazon. I do confuse metronidazole with miconazle, but I carefully ascertained that the stuff in the tablets is the same thing as flagyl. Yours, Dora Smith Austin, TX tiggernut24@... ----- Original Message ----- From: "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@...> To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Sunday, December 06, 2009 11:10 AM Subject: [Bulk] RE: [Bulk] RE: [AquaticLife] Can I treat the flukes or whatever with miconazole? Well, maybe Ray would know as I've never seen miconazole used in fish keeping before.. and none of the reputable sites that I use for reference purposes mention it either. These are the sites I turn to for treatment info and options when I do not know the answer off the top of my head. http://www.americanaquariumproducts.com/Aquarium_Medication.html http://www.americanaquariumproducts.com/AquariumMedication2.html http://www.americanaquariumproducts.com/AquariumMedication3.html http://thegab.org/Illness-and-Treatment/commonly-used-medications.html http://www.plecofanatics.com/articles/showentry.php?e=20&catid=popentries&or derby=views http://www.fishforums.net/index.php?showtopic=123440 http://edis.ifas.ufl.edu/fa084 (PLEASE NOTE THAT THIS UFL.EDU SITE HAS TONS OF VALUABLE INFORMATION ON FISH KEEPING, ALTHOUGH SOME OF IT GETS KIND OF DEEP AND IT'S NOT SPECIFICALLY FOR AQUARIUM FISH KEEPING, SINCE IT'S USED FOR TRAINING VETERINARIAN AND AQUACULTURE STUDENTS AT THE UNIVERSITY OF FLORIDA) In answer to your question about filter media, when treating with an antiparasite chemical/medication, other than removing the carbon, there should be nothing to worry about unless you are using something that also has antibiotic principles also in the drug. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Dora Smith Sent: Sunday, December 06, 2009 10:32 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [Bulk] RE: [AquaticLife] Can I treat the flukes or whatever with miconazole? It's also antiparasitic, atleast in humans; it's often used to treat flagellate protozoa, like giardia. It is also used in humans to treat anaerobic bacteria, overgrowths of anaerobic bacteria from taking antibiotic, and heliobacter pylori. I've taken it for these problems. It is further used in humans to treat skin infections of follicle mites, and to treat roseaca. In birds it is used to treat giardia, and avian gastric yeast, which is a primitive bacteria. Yours, Dora Smith Austin, TX tiggernut24@... ----- Original Message ----- From: "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@...> To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Sunday, December 06, 2009 10:27 AM Subject: [Bulk] RE: [AquaticLife] Can I treat the flukes or whatever with miconazole? This page lists parasite control meds. I do not see miconazole listed. Look over the rest of the meds mentioned on this page. http://www.americanaquariumproducts.com/AquariumMedication3.html I knew I recognized "miconazole" and when doing a Google, I saw that it's the active ingredient in Monistat and Micatin (don't ask how I know about this... lol) and that it's an antifungal, not an antiparasite medication... so unless your fish have athletes foot or your female fish are showing signs of... ummmm.. well I think you get the picture, then I don't think miconazole would be the right treatment. I'm not even sure if salt would treat internal parasites.... not even gill flukes from what I recall... but you could put a pinch of salt per 10G for the benefits of better oxygen absorption through their gills in case it is gill flukes. From what you've said in another post, it may not be gill flukes. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Dora Smith Sent: Sunday, December 06, 2009 7:21 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Can I treat the flukes or whatever with miconazole? Can I treat the flukes or whatever with miconazole? I have plenty of that, and I won't be able to buy praziwhatever for a week and a half; I'm flat broke. If so, what exactly do I have to do with my filter media? Yours, Dora Smith Austin, TX tiggernut24@... ------------------------------------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the home page. Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com to receive the digest, which includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com for the No E-Mail option where you will still be able to read messages on the group and post replies. Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com to receive individual e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 44960	From: Dora Smith	Date: 12/6/2009
Subject: Re: [Bulk] RE: [Bulk] RE: [AquaticLife] Can I treat the flukes or wh

http://www.wetwebmedia.com/metranidazole.htm It is hard for me to perceive a difference between one-celled and multi-celled parasites, particularly when ich is a one-celled parasite and bigger ones are harder to see. Yours, Dora Smith Austin, TX tiggernut24@... ----- Original Message ----- From: "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@...> To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Sunday, December 06, 2009 11:10 AM Subject: [Bulk] RE: [Bulk] RE: [AquaticLife] Can I treat the flukes or whatever with miconazole? Well, maybe Ray would know as I've never seen miconazole used in fish keeping before.. and none of the reputable sites that I use for reference purposes mention it either. These are the sites I turn to for treatment info and options when I do not know the answer off the top of my head. http://www.americanaquariumproducts.com/Aquarium_Medication.html http://www.americanaquariumproducts.com/AquariumMedication2.html http://www.americanaquariumproducts.com/AquariumMedication3.html http://thegab.org/Illness-and-Treatment/commonly-used-medications.html http://www.plecofanatics.com/articles/showentry.php?e=20&catid=popentries&or derby=views http://www.fishforums.net/index.php?showtopic=123440 http://edis.ifas.ufl.edu/fa084 (PLEASE NOTE THAT THIS UFL.EDU SITE HAS TONS OF VALUABLE INFORMATION ON FISH KEEPING, ALTHOUGH SOME OF IT GETS KIND OF DEEP AND IT'S NOT SPECIFICALLY FOR AQUARIUM FISH KEEPING, SINCE IT'S USED FOR TRAINING VETERINARIAN AND AQUACULTURE STUDENTS AT THE UNIVERSITY OF FLORIDA) In answer to your question about filter media, when treating with an antiparasite chemical/medication, other than removing the carbon, there should be nothing to worry about unless you are using something that also has antibiotic principles also in the drug. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Dora Smith Sent: Sunday, December 06, 2009 10:32 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [Bulk] RE: [AquaticLife] Can I treat the flukes or whatever with miconazole? It's also antiparasitic, atleast in humans; it's often used to treat flagellate protozoa, like giardia. It is also used in humans to treat anaerobic bacteria, overgrowths of anaerobic bacteria from taking antibiotic, and heliobacter pylori. I've taken it for these problems. It is further used in humans to treat skin infections of follicle mites, and to treat roseaca. In birds it is used to treat giardia, and avian gastric yeast, which is a primitive bacteria. Yours, Dora Smith Austin, TX tiggernut24@... ----- Original Message ----- From: "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@...> To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Sunday, December 06, 2009 10:27 AM Subject: [Bulk] RE: [AquaticLife] Can I treat the flukes or whatever with miconazole? This page lists parasite control meds. I do not see miconazole listed. Look over the rest of the meds mentioned on this page. http://www.americanaquariumproducts.com/AquariumMedication3.html I knew I recognized "miconazole" and when doing a Google, I saw that it's the active ingredient in Monistat and Micatin (don't ask how I know about this... lol) and that it's an antifungal, not an antiparasite medication... so unless your fish have athletes foot or your female fish are showing signs of... ummmm.. well I think you get the picture, then I don't think miconazole would be the right treatment. I'm not even sure if salt would treat internal parasites.... not even gill flukes from what I recall... but you could put a pinch of salt per 10G for the benefits of better oxygen absorption through their gills in case it is gill flukes. From what you've said in another post, it may not be gill flukes. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Dora Smith Sent: Sunday, December 06, 2009 7:21 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Can I treat the flukes or whatever with miconazole? Can I treat the flukes or whatever with miconazole? I have plenty of that, and I won't be able to buy praziwhatever for a week and a half; I'm flat broke. If so, what exactly do I have to do with my filter media? Yours, Dora Smith Austin, TX tiggernut24@... ------------------------------------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the home page. Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com to receive the digest, which includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com for the No E-Mail option where you will still be able to read messages on the group and post replies. Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com to receive individual e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 44961	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 12/6/2009
Subject: Re: Can I treat the flukes or whatever with miconazole?

All the more reason to leave Yahoo Mail. Gmail is far superior to Yahoo Mail and it's free for POP3 access (as far as I know, Yahoo charges for POP3 access for downloading to OE or other email clients) and it's spam filtration if about a million times better than Yahoo's. Gmail can even access your Yahoo Mail account so you don't have to... although you may still have to check your spam folder from time to time. I'm still not sure how the [BULK] designation is being added. I still do have a Yahoo Mail account that I rarely use but I've never seen this designation. Maybe it's something you get when you pay for the Yahoo Premium Mail service but in either case, it should be trainable. OR... are you checking mail in your SPAM folder and then replying from the SPAM folder instead of marking it NOT SPAM first and then replying from your INBOX??? Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Dora Smith Sent: Sunday, December 06, 2009 11:30 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Can I treat the flukes or whatever with miconazole? Only online. I don't get my Yahoo mail online. I get it downloaded to my OE. I'm not going online every time Yahoo decides something is bulk. A quarter of my own mail to myself gets labelled bulk! Yours, Dora Smith Austin, TX tiggernut24@... ----- Original Message ----- From: "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@...> To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Sunday, December 06, 2009 11:21 AM Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Can I treat the flukes or whatever with miconazole? Can't you train or set your email client/program to NOT add the [BULK] designation to frequently received email? Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Dora Smith Sent: Sunday, December 06, 2009 10:43 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Can I treat the flukes or whatever with miconazole? I'll try this one more time. My e-mail program keeps sticking the word Bulk in front of half the mail from this list, and then multiplying it. Yours, Dora Smith Austin, TX tiggernut24@... ----- Original Message ----- From: "Dora Smith" <tiggernut24@...> To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Sunday, December 06, 2009 10:32 AM Subject: [Bulk] Re: [Bulk] RE: [AquaticLife] Can I treat the flukes or whatever with miconazole? > It's also antiparasitic, atleast in humans; it's often used to treat > flagellate protozoa, like giardia. It is also used in humans to treat > anaerobic bacteria, overgrowths of anaerobic bacteria from taking > antibiotic, and heliobacter pylori. I've taken it for these problems. > It is further used in humans to treat skin infections of follicle > mites, and to > treat roseaca. In birds it is used to treat giardia, and avian gastric > yeast, which is a primitive bacteria. > > Yours, > Dora Smith > Austin, TX > tiggernut24@... > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@...> > To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com> > Sent: Sunday, December 06, 2009 10:27 AM > Subject: [Bulk] RE: [AquaticLife] Can I treat the flukes or whatever > with miconazole? > > > This page lists parasite control meds. I do not see miconazole listed. > Look over the rest of the meds mentioned on this page. > > http://www.americanaquariumproducts.com/AquariumMedication3.html > > I knew I recognized "miconazole" and when doing a Google, I saw that > it's the active ingredient in Monistat and Micatin (don't ask how I > know about this... lol) and that it's an antifungal, not an > antiparasite medication... > so unless your fish have athletes foot or your female fish are showing > signs of... ummmm.. well I think you get the picture, then I don't > think miconazole would be the right treatment. > > I'm not even sure if salt would treat internal parasites.... not even > gill flukes from what I recall... but you could put a pinch of salt > per 10G for the benefits of better oxygen absorption through their > gills in case it is gill flukes. From what you've said in another > post, it may not be gill flukes. > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles > referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically > under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] > On Behalf Of Dora Smith > Sent: Sunday, December 06, 2009 7:21 AM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Subject: [AquaticLife] Can I treat the flukes or whatever with miconazole? > > Can I treat the flukes or whatever with miconazole? I have plenty of > that, > and I won't be able to buy praziwhatever for a week and a half; I'm > flat broke. > > If so, what exactly do I have to do with my filter media? > > Yours, > Dora Smith > Austin, TX > tiggernut24@...

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 44962	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 12/6/2009
Subject: Re: [Bulk] RE: [Bulk] RE: [AquaticLife] Can I treat the flukes or wh

Half way down on the second link, there is an informed write up about metronidazole. It's listed primarily as an antibiotic for anaerobic gram-positive bacteria. Here's a snip but read the entire section for full details. USE: Metronidazole's primary use is for the treatment of anaerobic gram positive bacteria including those that produce beta-lactamase. However, it is not effective against aerobic bacterium. As well Metronidazole is effective for some protozoa (especially internal flagellates and external). (END SNIP) I do not see Gill flukes or other flat worms listed. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Dora Smith Sent: Sunday, December 06, 2009 11:35 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [Bulk] RE: [Bulk] RE: [AquaticLife] Can I treat the flukes or whatever with miconazole? Fish zole. 250 mg tablets of metronidazole. Available from Thomas Laboratories. I bought it from Amazon. I do confuse metronidazole with miconazle, but I carefully ascertained that the stuff in the tablets is the same thing as flagyl. Yours, Dora Smith Austin, TX tiggernut24@... ----- Original Message ----- From: "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@...> To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Sunday, December 06, 2009 11:10 AM Subject: [Bulk] RE: [Bulk] RE: [AquaticLife] Can I treat the flukes or whatever with miconazole? Well, maybe Ray would know as I've never seen miconazole used in fish keeping before.. and none of the reputable sites that I use for reference purposes mention it either. These are the sites I turn to for treatment info and options when I do not know the answer off the top of my head. http://www.americanaquariumproducts.com/Aquarium_Medication.html http://www.americanaquariumproducts.com/AquariumMedication2.html http://www.americanaquariumproducts.com/AquariumMedication3.html http://thegab.org/Illness-and-Treatment/commonly-used-medications.html http://www.plecofanatics.com/articles/showentry.php?e=20&catid=popentries&or derby=views http://www.fishforums.net/index.php?showtopic=123440 http://edis.ifas.ufl.edu/fa084 (PLEASE NOTE THAT THIS UFL.EDU SITE HAS TONS OF VALUABLE INFORMATION ON FISH KEEPING, ALTHOUGH SOME OF IT GETS KIND OF DEEP AND IT'S NOT SPECIFICALLY FOR AQUARIUM FISH KEEPING, SINCE IT'S USED FOR TRAINING VETERINARIAN AND AQUACULTURE STUDENTS AT THE UNIVERSITY OF FLORIDA) In answer to your question about filter media, when treating with an antiparasite chemical/medication, other than removing the carbon, there should be nothing to worry about unless you are using something that also has antibiotic principles also in the drug. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Dora Smith Sent: Sunday, December 06, 2009 10:32 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [Bulk] RE: [AquaticLife] Can I treat the flukes or whatever with miconazole? It's also antiparasitic, atleast in humans; it's often used to treat flagellate protozoa, like giardia. It is also used in humans to treat anaerobic bacteria, overgrowths of anaerobic bacteria from taking antibiotic, and heliobacter pylori. I've taken it for these problems. It is further used in humans to treat skin infections of follicle mites, and to treat roseaca. In birds it is used to treat giardia, and avian gastric yeast, which is a primitive bacteria. Yours, Dora Smith Austin, TX tiggernut24@... ----- Original Message ----- From: "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@...> To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Sunday, December 06, 2009 10:27 AM Subject: [Bulk] RE: [AquaticLife] Can I treat the flukes or whatever with miconazole? This page lists parasite control meds. I do not see miconazole listed. Look over the rest of the meds mentioned on this page. http://www.americanaquariumproducts.com/AquariumMedication3.html I knew I recognized "miconazole" and when doing a Google, I saw that it's the active ingredient in Monistat and Micatin (don't ask how I know about this... lol) and that it's an antifungal, not an antiparasite medication... so unless your fish have athletes foot or your female fish are showing signs of... ummmm.. well I think you get the picture, then I don't think miconazole would be the right treatment. I'm not even sure if salt would treat internal parasites.... not even gill flukes from what I recall... but you could put a pinch of salt per 10G for the benefits of better oxygen absorption through their gills in case it is gill flukes. From what you've said in another post, it may not be gill flukes. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Dora Smith Sent: Sunday, December 06, 2009 7:21 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Can I treat the flukes or whatever with miconazole? Can I treat the flukes or whatever with miconazole? I have plenty of that, and I won't be able to buy praziwhatever for a week and a half; I'm flat broke. If so, what exactly do I have to do with my filter media? Yours, Dora Smith Austin, TX tiggernut24@...

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 44963	From: Dora Smith	Date: 12/6/2009
Subject: Re: [Bulk] RE: [AquaticLife] Can I treat the flukes or whatever with

I like Yahoo mail. I've had this account for 15 years, and I mean to have it for life. Yours, Dora Smith Austin, TX tiggernut24@... ----- Original Message ----- From: "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@...> To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Sunday, December 06, 2009 12:52 PM Subject: [Bulk] RE: [AquaticLife] Can I treat the flukes or whatever with miconazole? All the more reason to leave Yahoo Mail. Gmail is far superior to Yahoo Mail and it's free for POP3 access (as far as I know, Yahoo charges for POP3 access for downloading to OE or other email clients) and it's spam filtration if about a million times better than Yahoo's. Gmail can even access your Yahoo Mail account so you don't have to... although you may still have to check your spam folder from time to time. I'm still not sure how the [BULK] designation is being added. I still do have a Yahoo Mail account that I rarely use but I've never seen this designation. Maybe it's something you get when you pay for the Yahoo Premium Mail service but in either case, it should be trainable. OR... are you checking mail in your SPAM folder and then replying from the SPAM folder instead of marking it NOT SPAM first and then replying from your INBOX??? Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Dora Smith Sent: Sunday, December 06, 2009 11:30 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Can I treat the flukes or whatever with miconazole? Only online. I don't get my Yahoo mail online. I get it downloaded to my OE. I'm not going online every time Yahoo decides something is bulk. A quarter of my own mail to myself gets labelled bulk! Yours, Dora Smith Austin, TX tiggernut24@... ----- Original Message ----- From: "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@...> To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Sunday, December 06, 2009 11:21 AM Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Can I treat the flukes or whatever with miconazole? Can't you train or set your email client/program to NOT add the [BULK] designation to frequently received email? Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Dora Smith Sent: Sunday, December 06, 2009 10:43 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Can I treat the flukes or whatever with miconazole? I'll try this one more time. My e-mail program keeps sticking the word Bulk in front of half the mail from this list, and then multiplying it. Yours, Dora Smith Austin, TX tiggernut24@... ----- Original Message ----- From: "Dora Smith" <tiggernut24@...> To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Sunday, December 06, 2009 10:32 AM Subject: [Bulk] Re: [Bulk] RE: [AquaticLife] Can I treat the flukes or whatever with miconazole? > It's also antiparasitic, atleast in humans; it's often used to treat > flagellate protozoa, like giardia. It is also used in humans to treat > anaerobic bacteria, overgrowths of anaerobic bacteria from taking > antibiotic, and heliobacter pylori. I've taken it for these problems. > It is further used in humans to treat skin infections of follicle > mites, and to > treat roseaca. In birds it is used to treat giardia, and avian gastric > yeast, which is a primitive bacteria. > > Yours, > Dora Smith > Austin, TX > tiggernut24@... > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@...> > To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com> > Sent: Sunday, December 06, 2009 10:27 AM > Subject: [Bulk] RE: [AquaticLife] Can I treat the flukes or whatever > with miconazole? > > > This page lists parasite control meds. I do not see miconazole listed. > Look over the rest of the meds mentioned on this page. > > http://www.americanaquariumproducts.com/AquariumMedication3.html > > I knew I recognized "miconazole" and when doing a Google, I saw that > it's the active ingredient in Monistat and Micatin (don't ask how I > know about this... lol) and that it's an antifungal, not an > antiparasite medication... > so unless your fish have athletes foot or your female fish are showing > signs of... ummmm.. well I think you get the picture, then I don't > think miconazole would be the right treatment. > > I'm not even sure if salt would treat internal parasites.... not even > gill flukes from what I recall... but you could put a pinch of salt > per 10G for the benefits of better oxygen absorption through their > gills in case it is gill flukes. From what you've said in another > post, it may not be gill flukes. > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles > referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically > under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] > On Behalf Of Dora Smith > Sent: Sunday, December 06, 2009 7:21 AM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Subject: [AquaticLife] Can I treat the flukes or whatever with miconazole? > > Can I treat the flukes or whatever with miconazole? I have plenty of > that, > and I won't be able to buy praziwhatever for a week and a half; I'm > flat broke. > > If so, what exactly do I have to do with my filter media? > > Yours, > Dora Smith > Austin, TX > tiggernut24@... ------------------------------------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the home page. Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com to receive the digest, which includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com for the No E-Mail option where you will still be able to read messages on the group and post replies. Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com to receive individual e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 44964	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 12/6/2009
Subject: Re: [Bulk] RE: [AquaticLife] Can I treat the flukes or whatever with

Well, you need to learn how to fix your [BULK] mail issues then. Don't count on Yahoo's customer service to help though. LOL "Yahoo's customer service" is probably the biggest oxymoron on the planet... maybe even bigger than when politicians use efficiency, savings or spending cuts in anything they say. LOL Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Dora Smith Sent: Sunday, December 06, 2009 1:27 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [Bulk] RE: [AquaticLife] Can I treat the flukes or whatever with miconazole? I like Yahoo mail. I've had this account for 15 years, and I mean to have it for life. Yours, Dora Smith Austin, TX tiggernut24@... ----- Original Message ----- From: "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@...> To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Sunday, December 06, 2009 12:52 PM Subject: [Bulk] RE: [AquaticLife] Can I treat the flukes or whatever with miconazole? All the more reason to leave Yahoo Mail. Gmail is far superior to Yahoo Mail and it's free for POP3 access (as far as I know, Yahoo charges for POP3 access for downloading to OE or other email clients) and it's spam filtration if about a million times better than Yahoo's. Gmail can even access your Yahoo Mail account so you don't have to... although you may still have to check your spam folder from time to time. I'm still not sure how the [BULK] designation is being added. I still do have a Yahoo Mail account that I rarely use but I've never seen this designation. Maybe it's something you get when you pay for the Yahoo Premium Mail service but in either case, it should be trainable. OR... are you checking mail in your SPAM folder and then replying from the SPAM folder instead of marking it NOT SPAM first and then replying from your INBOX??? Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Dora Smith Sent: Sunday, December 06, 2009 11:30 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Can I treat the flukes or whatever with miconazole? Only online. I don't get my Yahoo mail online. I get it downloaded to my OE. I'm not going online every time Yahoo decides something is bulk. A quarter of my own mail to myself gets labelled bulk! Yours, Dora Smith Austin, TX tiggernut24@... ----- Original Message ----- From: "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@...> To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Sunday, December 06, 2009 11:21 AM Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Can I treat the flukes or whatever with miconazole? Can't you train or set your email client/program to NOT add the [BULK] designation to frequently received email? Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Dora Smith Sent: Sunday, December 06, 2009 10:43 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Can I treat the flukes or whatever with miconazole? I'll try this one more time. My e-mail program keeps sticking the word Bulk in front of half the mail from this list, and then multiplying it. Yours, Dora Smith Austin, TX tiggernut24@... ----- Original Message ----- From: "Dora Smith" <tiggernut24@...> To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Sunday, December 06, 2009 10:32 AM Subject: [Bulk] Re: [Bulk] RE: [AquaticLife] Can I treat the flukes or whatever with miconazole? > It's also antiparasitic, atleast in humans; it's often used to treat > flagellate protozoa, like giardia. It is also used in humans to treat > anaerobic bacteria, overgrowths of anaerobic bacteria from taking > antibiotic, and heliobacter pylori. I've taken it for these problems. > It is further used in humans to treat skin infections of follicle > mites, and to > treat roseaca. In birds it is used to treat giardia, and avian gastric > yeast, which is a primitive bacteria. > > Yours, > Dora Smith > Austin, TX > tiggernut24@... > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@...> > To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com> > Sent: Sunday, December 06, 2009 10:27 AM > Subject: [Bulk] RE: [AquaticLife] Can I treat the flukes or whatever > with miconazole? > > > This page lists parasite control meds. I do not see miconazole listed. > Look over the rest of the meds mentioned on this page. > > http://www.americanaquariumproducts.com/AquariumMedication3.html > > I knew I recognized "miconazole" and when doing a Google, I saw that > it's the active ingredient in Monistat and Micatin (don't ask how I > know about this... lol) and that it's an antifungal, not an > antiparasite medication... > so unless your fish have athletes foot or your female fish are showing > signs of... ummmm.. well I think you get the picture, then I don't > think miconazole would be the right treatment. > > I'm not even sure if salt would treat internal parasites.... not even > gill flukes from what I recall... but you could put a pinch of salt > per 10G for the benefits of better oxygen absorption through their > gills in case it is gill flukes. From what you've said in another > post, it may not be gill flukes. > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles > referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically > under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] > On Behalf Of Dora Smith > Sent: Sunday, December 06, 2009 7:21 AM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Subject: [AquaticLife] Can I treat the flukes or whatever with miconazole? > > Can I treat the flukes or whatever with miconazole? I have plenty of > that, > and I won't be able to buy praziwhatever for a week and a half; I'm > flat broke. > > If so, what exactly do I have to do with my filter media? > > Yours, > Dora Smith > Austin, TX > tiggernut24@... ------------------------------------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the home page. Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com to receive the digest, which includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com for the No E-Mail option where you will still be able to read messages on the group and post replies. Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com to receive individual e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links ------------------------------------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the home page. Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com to receive the digest, which includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com for the No E-Mail option where you will still be able to read messages on the group and post replies. Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com to receive individual e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 44965	From: Dora Smith	Date: 12/6/2009
Subject: Re: Can I treat the flukes or whatever with miconazole?

LOL! Yours, Dora Smith Austin, TX tiggernut24@... ----- Original Message ----- From: "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@...> To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Sunday, December 06, 2009 2:10 PM Subject: [Bulk] RE: [Bulk] RE: [AquaticLife] Can I treat the flukes or whatever with miconazole? Well, you need to learn how to fix your [BULK] mail issues then. Don't count on Yahoo's customer service to help though. LOL "Yahoo's customer service" is probably the biggest oxymoron on the planet... maybe even bigger than when politicians use efficiency, savings or spending cuts in anything they say. LOL Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Dora Smith Sent: Sunday, December 06, 2009 1:27 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [Bulk] RE: [AquaticLife] Can I treat the flukes or whatever with miconazole? I like Yahoo mail. I've had this account for 15 years, and I mean to have it for life. Yours, Dora Smith Austin, TX tiggernut24@... ----- Original Message ----- From: "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@...> To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Sunday, December 06, 2009 12:52 PM Subject: [Bulk] RE: [AquaticLife] Can I treat the flukes or whatever with miconazole? All the more reason to leave Yahoo Mail. Gmail is far superior to Yahoo Mail and it's free for POP3 access (as far as I know, Yahoo charges for POP3 access for downloading to OE or other email clients) and it's spam filtration if about a million times better than Yahoo's. Gmail can even access your Yahoo Mail account so you don't have to... although you may still have to check your spam folder from time to time. I'm still not sure how the [BULK] designation is being added. I still do have a Yahoo Mail account that I rarely use but I've never seen this designation. Maybe it's something you get when you pay for the Yahoo Premium Mail service but in either case, it should be trainable. OR... are you checking mail in your SPAM folder and then replying from the SPAM folder instead of marking it NOT SPAM first and then replying from your INBOX??? Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Dora Smith Sent: Sunday, December 06, 2009 11:30 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Can I treat the flukes or whatever with miconazole? Only online. I don't get my Yahoo mail online. I get it downloaded to my OE. I'm not going online every time Yahoo decides something is bulk. A quarter of my own mail to myself gets labelled bulk! Yours, Dora Smith Austin, TX tiggernut24@... ----- Original Message ----- From: "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@...> To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Sunday, December 06, 2009 11:21 AM Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Can I treat the flukes or whatever with miconazole? Can't you train or set your email client/program to NOT add the [BULK] designation to frequently received email? Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Dora Smith Sent: Sunday, December 06, 2009 10:43 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Can I treat the flukes or whatever with miconazole? I'll try this one more time. My e-mail program keeps sticking the word Bulk in front of half the mail from this list, and then multiplying it. Yours, Dora Smith Austin, TX tiggernut24@... ----- Original Message ----- From: "Dora Smith" <tiggernut24@...> To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Sunday, December 06, 2009 10:32 AM Subject: [Bulk] Re: [Bulk] RE: [AquaticLife] Can I treat the flukes or whatever with miconazole? > It's also antiparasitic, atleast in humans; it's often used to treat > flagellate protozoa, like giardia. It is also used in humans to treat > anaerobic bacteria, overgrowths of anaerobic bacteria from taking > antibiotic, and heliobacter pylori. I've taken it for these problems. > It is further used in humans to treat skin infections of follicle > mites, and to > treat roseaca. In birds it is used to treat giardia, and avian gastric > yeast, which is a primitive bacteria. > > Yours, > Dora Smith > Austin, TX > tiggernut24@... > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@...> > To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com> > Sent: Sunday, December 06, 2009 10:27 AM > Subject: [Bulk] RE: [AquaticLife] Can I treat the flukes or whatever > with miconazole? > > > This page lists parasite control meds. I do not see miconazole listed. > Look over the rest of the meds mentioned on this page. > > http://www.americanaquariumproducts.com/AquariumMedication3.html > > I knew I recognized "miconazole" and when doing a Google, I saw that > it's the active ingredient in Monistat and Micatin (don't ask how I > know about this... lol) and that it's an antifungal, not an > antiparasite medication... > so unless your fish have athletes foot or your female fish are showing > signs of... ummmm.. well I think you get the picture, then I don't > think miconazole would be the right treatment. > > I'm not even sure if salt would treat internal parasites.... not even > gill flukes from what I recall... but you could put a pinch of salt > per 10G for the benefits of better oxygen absorption through their > gills in case it is gill flukes. From what you've said in another > post, it may not be gill flukes. > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles > referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically > under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] > On Behalf Of Dora Smith > Sent: Sunday, December 06, 2009 7:21 AM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Subject: [AquaticLife] Can I treat the flukes or whatever with miconazole? > > Can I treat the flukes or whatever with miconazole? I have plenty of > that, > and I won't be able to buy praziwhatever for a week and a half; I'm > flat broke. > > If so, what exactly do I have to do with my filter media? > > Yours, > Dora Smith > Austin, TX > tiggernut24@... ------------------------------------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the home page. Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com to receive the digest, which includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com for the No E-Mail option where you will still be able to read messages on the group and post replies. Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com to receive individual e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links ------------------------------------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the home page. Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com to receive the digest, which includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com for the No E-Mail option where you will still be able to read messages on the group and post replies. Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com to receive individual e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links ------------------------------------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the home page. Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com to receive the digest, which includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com for the No E-Mail option where you will still be able to read messages on the group and post replies. Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com to receive individual e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 44966	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 12/6/2009
Subject: Re: questions about Yoyo loaches or other small snail eating loaches

Well that would be really nice, I can't see my only LFS actually giving out discounts or anything though (normally his fish is very pricey). If he doesn't even buy fish from people (cheap) then I doubt he'd give some away, LOL. But those are all very nice thoughts, will have to pass the word around and see how many people actually want to participate. Amber Deenerz@... wrote: > > > Amber, you should give it a try. > Many small aquarium societies meet in each others home for small get > togethers to swap stories, sell fish, give presentations, or workshops. > You can also network with each other about doing group buys. As > difficult as it is for you to get items shipped to you in Alaska a > group buy on products or fish might make it more affordable for all of > you. > > You might also as a group make it more appealing for your local shop to > work with your new aquarium society. > Many of the LFS's in my area work with the aquarium societies and even > donate fish or products to help out. Some even offer discounts. One > even participates in club events and lets us have our Board of > directors meetings in his shop. > > -Mike > > -----Original Message----- > From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@... > <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com>> > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Sent: Sat, Dec 5, 2009 6:32 pm > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] questions about Yoyo loaches or other small > snail eating loaches. > > > You need to start the SAAS - South Alaska Aquarium Society... or maybe > the > KMAS - Ketchikan-Metlakatla Aquarium Society.. or KAIAS - > Ketchikan-Annette > Island Aquarium Society. Yeah.. I used Google Earth to look around to > see > how close you were to another city/island up there.. lol.. looks like a > nice > lil ferry ride between your islands. Your island looks bigger but > Annette > Island looks more developed with cities spread out and roads all over > their > island. Heck, I couldn't even find a name for your island. Doing this > would enable all of you gals/guys to stay in touch and be able to > sell/swap > fish at monthly or quarterly meetings. Maybe someone else up there has > the > wherewithal to start up a small LFS or even just do something out of > their > home/garage as a home-based business. Of course, you all could > participate > at monthly meetings and auctions, even having your own little Yahoo > Group to > stay in touch so everyone knows what everyone else has for sale or swap > and > to make announcements. > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right > side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, > Month) > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] > On > Behalf Of Amber Berglund > Sent: Saturday, December 05, 2009 4:49 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] questions about Yoyo loaches or other small > snail > eating loaches. > > My LFS won't buy anything from me, I could give them to him for free > perhaps > (yeah right, not doing that). The owner is a jerk, I don't even shop > there > when he's working. > > Amber > > Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > > > > You already have two Angelfish in that 55G... right? You have to > be > > careful about bioload since most loaches need to be in shoals of > five > > or more. > > > > How many times have the Angel's mated and eaten their eggs? Maybe > you > > could have a divider ready for next time and separate the adults > from > > the eggs as soon as they lay the eggs... if you want them to live. > > Will your LFS buy Angelfish from you? > > > > Here's what Mongabay says about Suggested Companions for P. > scalare... > > (Loaches - Botia, et al, aren't on the list... Sorry!) > > > > SC: Catfish (Armored, Pimelodids, Doradids, Loricarids), characins > > (Headstanders, hatchetfish, larger schooling tetras), cichlids > > (Angelfish, Discus, Waroo, Acaras, Ram, Eartheaters), gouramis, > > livebearers that can tolerate neutral water conditions. > > > > Maybe a school of Tetras and a Clown Pleco for additional algae > > control to help the Mystery Snails? Or a pair of pretty Rams who > would > > take the other end of the tank for their breeding area? I think > I've > > read that it's best to get one male and several females until he > decides > which one he wants... > > God, I wish I was a fish! LOL The leftover females could populate > your > > 10G tanks as well... or sell them to the LFS. I'm surprised to see > > Gourami's on the list so that leaves you plenty of options also > but > > the non-dwarf's get pretty big. > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>> (Links to any articles > referenced in > > above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under > Labels > > and also under Archives by Year, Month) > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On Behalf Of Amber > Berglund > > Sent: Saturday, December 05, 2009 2:37 PM > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] questions about Yoyo loaches or other > small > > snail eating loaches. > > > > So in other words they would eat any snail, even my big ones ;) > LOL. > > That's all I needed to know about whether I should get them for > that > > tank or not. I'm considering them for the Angelfish tank since > they > > still haven't had any babies (keep eating their eggs, oh well). > Should > > I get semi-aggressive loaches if I put them in that tank? I > suppose > > more aggressive ones might hurt the Angel's. > > > > Amber > > > > Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > > > > > > Well, worse case if you forget to take the food out is that > the > > > snails will eat it all and reproduce even more since most > snails are > > > opportunistic breeders. That should be enough to make you > remember > > > to take it out the next morning. > > > > > > Or, you could tie a string around your finger when you put > the leaf > > > in at night and when you wake up in the morning with your > finger > > > swollen because you tied the string too tight, that will also > remind > > > you about the leaf of lettuce or spinach. > > > > > > Of course, be careful if your fish eat the spinach as it > could > > > result in Popeye! Arrr! Arrr! Or should that be > > > A-gah-gah-gah-gah-gah-gah :-D > > > http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KYK3Fz6pXnA > <http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KYK3Fz6pXnA> > > <http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KYK3Fz6pXnA> > <http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KYK3Fz6pXnA>> > > > <http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KYK3Fz6pXnA > <http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KYK3Fz6pXnA> > > <http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KYK3Fz6pXnA>> > <http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KYK3Fz6pXnA>>> > > > > > > I'm not sure how effective loaches are on MTS since their > shells are > > > so hard and they have trap doors. I don't think they'll > discriminate > > > against eating your Mystery Snails, regardless of size. > > > > > > If you get snail eating loaches for the tank, don't plan on > keeping > > > snails in that tank any longer. > > > > > > There are also these Assassin Snails, Anentome helena, > > > > > > http://forums.loaches.com/viewtopic.php?t=12094&postdays=0&postorder=a > <http://forums.loaches.com/viewtopic.php?t=12094&postdays=0&postorder=a> > > > <http://forums.loaches.com/viewtopic.php?t=12094&postdays=0&postor > <http://forums.loaches.com/viewtopic.php?t=12094&postdays=0&postor> > der= > > a> > > > sc&sta > > > > > > <http://forums.loaches.com/viewtopic.php?t=12094&postdays=0&postor > <http://forums.loaches.com/viewtopic.php?t=12094&postdays=0&postor> > der= > > > <http://forums.loaches.com/viewtopic.php?t=12094&postdays=0&postor > <http://forums.loaches.com/viewtopic.php?t=12094&postdays=0&postor> > der= > > > > > > asc&sta> rt=0 (five page thread) but they would also go > after your > > > Mystery Snails. > > > Of course, you could always move the Assassin Snails to one > of your > > > 10G's after they do their thing and then put your Mystery > Snails > > > back into the 125G. Supposedly, Assassin Snails do not breed > much > > > You couldn't do this with the YoYo's or any other loaches. On > a > > > regular basis, and when you get too many Mystery Snails, > throw some > > > into the 10G Assassin Snail tank for them to eat. > > > > > > Check eBay and Aquabid for sellers of these snails. > > > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>> > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>>> > > (Links to any articles referenced in > > > above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically > under > > > Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On Behalf Of > Amber Berglund > > > Sent: Saturday, December 05, 2009 1:40 PM > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > Subject: [AquaticLife] questions about Yoyo loaches or other > small > > > snail eating loaches. > > > > > > I was considering picking up some yoyo loaches at some point > for my > > > 125 gallon tank, but I have a concern or two first. I'm > looking for > > > a smaller loach that eats smaller pond/pest snails but isn't > > > aggressive at the same time, so if there's a better one than > yoyo > > > loaches please feel free to let me know, LOL. My biggest > concern is > > > this; Do I need to take all my adult mystery snails out of > the tank > > > when I add any snail eating loaches, or are my adult size > mystery > > > snails too big for them to kill and eat? My goal is to get > rid of my > > > ramshorn snails, a good portion of the MTS, and some small > pond > > > snails (couldn't find any other name for them when searching > for > > > them on google). If I put something in the tank I may very > well > > > forget to take it out, so I haven't tried the lettuce method > yet, I > > > didn't want to kill my fish by forgetting food in the tank on > accident. > > > > > > Amber > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 44967	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 12/6/2009
Subject: Re: Are you sure this is gill flukes?

What does your ammonia test read? Amber Dora Smith wrote: > > I've been watching those fish closely, and reading alot about gill > flukes, > and tehy aren't doing anything that suggests gill flukes. They aren't > swimming strangely, breathing strangely, acting lethargic, or rubbing. I > do see occasional signs of irritated gills, but nothing else. The fish > seem perfectly healthy, and then I find them decomposing in the plastic > plants. > > Yours, > Dora Smith > Austin, TX > tiggernut24@... <mailto:tiggernut24%40yahoo.com> > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 44968	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 12/6/2009
Subject: Re: Another snail option.

Good to know, although if I get these new snails they would be in the Angel fish tank first, and then possibly the 125 gallon, no shrimp in either tanks, only my 55 gallon community tank (upstairs). Amber Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > > I read about them a year or so ago. I mentioned them in an earlier answer > to Amber in her thread about YoYo loaches. > > There's a five page forum thread on and about them here... > > http://forums.loaches.com/viewtopic.php?t=12094&postdays=0&postorder=asc&sta > <http://forums.loaches.com/viewtopic.php?t=12094&postdays=0&postorder=asc&sta> > rt=0 > > The author on the forum link you found did do a lot of research for their > article though. I've saved that link in my Snails Favorites folder. > > AMBER... WARNING... it seems Assassin Snails will also eat shrimp if the > opportunity arises, such as a dumb shrimp that doesn't run/swim out > the way > or something like that. > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right > side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On > Behalf Of harry perry > Sent: Sunday, December 06, 2009 8:37 AM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Subject: [AquaticLife] Another snail option. > > http://arizonainverts.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=204 > <http://arizonainverts.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=204> > > I didn't know these existed. They are assassin snails. They love MTS. > > Harry > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 44969	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 12/6/2009
Subject: Acid Oceans Leave Fish at More Risk from Predators

http://www.oceanleadership.org/2009/acid-oeans-leave-fish-at-more-risk-from- predators/ http://tinyurl.com/ydfdyk3 Acid Oceans Leave Fish at More Risk from Predators Posted by Will Ramos on Wednesday, November 25th, 2009 at 8:55 am Filed under: Discovery, News & Resources Ocean acidification could cause fish to become "fatally attracted" to their predators, according to scientists. (From BBC News) -- A team studying the effects of acidification - caused by dissolved CO2 - on ocean reefs found that it leaves fish unable to "smell danger". Young clownfish that were reared in the acidified water became attracted to rather than repelled by the chemical signals released by predatory fish. The findings were published in the journal Ecology Letters. Danielle Dixson from James Cook University in Queensland, Australia, led the study. She and her colleagues tested orange clown fish larvae that were raised in water with the same slightly alkaline pH as their ocean reef habitat, and those raised in more acidic water. The team released the fish into a "flow chamber" with two water sources flowing in parallel. One source was taken from tanks containing the clown fishes' natural predators and one was drawn from tanks in which non-predatory fish were swimming. . . . --------------------------------<continued at link>-------------------------------- \\Steve//

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 44970	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 12/6/2009
Subject: Re: [Bulk] RE: [AquaticLife] Can I treat the flukes or whatever with

And, furthermore, if I am elected, I will promise you more efficiency in the government in raising taxes, resulting in less savings for the wage earners, leading to spending cuts by the consumer. \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Lenny V. aka GoldLenny Sent: Sunday, December 06, 2009 3:11 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [Bulk] RE: [AquaticLife] Can I treat the flukes or whatever with miconazole? Well, you need to learn how to fix your [BULK] mail issues then. Don't count on Yahoo's customer service to help though. LOL "Yahoo's customer service" is probably the biggest oxymoron on the planet... maybe even bigger than when politicians use efficiency, savings or spending cuts in anything they say. LOL Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Dora Smith Sent: Sunday, December 06, 2009 1:27 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [Bulk] RE: [AquaticLife] Can I treat the flukes or whatever with miconazole? I like Yahoo mail. I've had this account for 15 years, and I mean to have it for life. Yours, Dora Smith Austin, TX tiggernut24@... ----- Original Message ----- From: "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@...> To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Sunday, December 06, 2009 12:52 PM Subject: [Bulk] RE: [AquaticLife] Can I treat the flukes or whatever with miconazole? All the more reason to leave Yahoo Mail. Gmail is far superior to Yahoo Mail and it's free for POP3 access (as far as I know, Yahoo charges for POP3 access for downloading to OE or other email clients) and it's spam filtration if about a million times better than Yahoo's. Gmail can even access your Yahoo Mail account so you don't have to... although you may still have to check your spam folder from time to time. I'm still not sure how the [BULK] designation is being added. I still do have a Yahoo Mail account that I rarely use but I've never seen this designation. Maybe it's something you get when you pay for the Yahoo Premium Mail service but in either case, it should be trainable. OR... are you checking mail in your SPAM folder and then replying from the SPAM folder instead of marking it NOT SPAM first and then replying from your INBOX??? Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Dora Smith Sent: Sunday, December 06, 2009 11:30 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Can I treat the flukes or whatever with miconazole? Only online. I don't get my Yahoo mail online. I get it downloaded to my OE. I'm not going online every time Yahoo decides something is bulk. A quarter of my own mail to myself gets labelled bulk! Yours, Dora Smith Austin, TX tiggernut24@... ----- Original Message ----- From: "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@...> To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Sunday, December 06, 2009 11:21 AM Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Can I treat the flukes or whatever with miconazole? Can't you train or set your email client/program to NOT add the [BULK] designation to frequently received email? Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Dora Smith Sent: Sunday, December 06, 2009 10:43 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Can I treat the flukes or whatever with miconazole? I'll try this one more time. My e-mail program keeps sticking the word Bulk in front of half the mail from this list, and then multiplying it. Yours, Dora Smith Austin, TX tiggernut24@... ----- Original Message ----- From: "Dora Smith" <tiggernut24@...> To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Sunday, December 06, 2009 10:32 AM Subject: [Bulk] Re: [Bulk] RE: [AquaticLife] Can I treat the flukes or whatever with miconazole? > It's also antiparasitic, atleast in humans; it's often used to treat > flagellate protozoa, like giardia. It is also used in humans to treat > anaerobic bacteria, overgrowths of anaerobic bacteria from taking > antibiotic, and heliobacter pylori. I've taken it for these problems. > It is further used in humans to treat skin infections of follicle > mites, and to > treat roseaca. In birds it is used to treat giardia, and avian gastric > yeast, which is a primitive bacteria. > > Yours, > Dora Smith > Austin, TX > tiggernut24@... > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@...> > To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com> > Sent: Sunday, December 06, 2009 10:27 AM > Subject: [Bulk] RE: [AquaticLife] Can I treat the flukes or whatever > with miconazole? > > > This page lists parasite control meds. I do not see miconazole listed. > Look over the rest of the meds mentioned on this page. > > http://www.americanaquariumproducts.com/AquariumMedication3.html > > I knew I recognized "miconazole" and when doing a Google, I saw that > it's the active ingredient in Monistat and Micatin (don't ask how I > know about this... lol) and that it's an antifungal, not an > antiparasite medication... > so unless your fish have athletes foot or your female fish are showing > signs of... ummmm.. well I think you get the picture, then I don't > think miconazole would be the right treatment. > > I'm not even sure if salt would treat internal parasites.... not even > gill flukes from what I recall... but you could put a pinch of salt > per 10G for the benefits of better oxygen absorption through their > gills in case it is gill flukes. From what you've said in another > post, it may not be gill flukes. > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles > referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically > under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] > On Behalf Of Dora Smith > Sent: Sunday, December 06, 2009 7:21 AM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Subject: [AquaticLife] Can I treat the flukes or whatever with miconazole? > > Can I treat the flukes or whatever with miconazole? I have plenty of > that, > and I won't be able to buy praziwhatever for a week and a half; I'm > flat broke. > > If so, what exactly do I have to do with my filter media? > > Yours, > Dora Smith > Austin, TX > tiggernut24@... ------------------------------------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the home page. Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com to receive the digest, which includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com for the No E-Mail option where you will still be able to read messages on the group and post replies. Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com to receive individual e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links ------------------------------------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the home page. Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com to receive the digest, which includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com for the No E-Mail option where you will still be able to read messages on the group and post replies. Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com to receive individual e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links ------------------------------------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the home page. Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com to receive the digest, which includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com for the No E-Mail option where you will still be able to read messages on the group and post replies. Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com to receive individual e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 44971	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 12/6/2009
Subject: Re: questions about Yoyo loaches or other small snail eating loaches

Have you ever checked to see if there's an LFS on that other island? I see they also have an airport. How long is the ferry ride there? You might have to take a "Field Of Dreams" attitude... build it and they will come. I know the guy who started SELAS (SouthEast Louisiana Aquarium Society) started it up and made it free in the beginning and then once he had a 100 or so members, he started charging but us first 100 are grand-fathered in for free. Tropical Fish Hobbyist magazine will give you a free classified listing for aquarium societies. Then ask your LFS and any others if you can put up a notice on their bulletin board. Don't be afraid to delegate as soon as you get even one other person interested. I've never started an aquarium society but I have started up other clubs and associations. It's not a lot of work and can actually be fun if you don't worry or take things too serious. It does help if someone else has some organizational skills. Definitely start up a forum or yahoo group at the start, once a name is determined so you do not have to try and manage email as that can get tedious. There are ways to start up a free forum like you see on some other sites but I've never tried one so I'm not much help there. Yahoo Group's are much easier IMO but they do not have the ability to have separate forums for different topics like website forums so everybody gets everything in a Yahoo Group, whereas with other forums, someone can just participate in the sections that they like. I'm pretty sure others in the group have participated in starting up aquarium societies so they may be able to help you with the details. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Amber Berglund Sent: Sunday, December 06, 2009 2:28 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] questions about Yoyo loaches or other small snail eating loaches. Well that would be really nice, I can't see my only LFS actually giving out discounts or anything though (normally his fish is very pricey). If he doesn't even buy fish from people (cheap) then I doubt he'd give some away, LOL. But those are all very nice thoughts, will have to pass the word around and see how many people actually want to participate. Amber Deenerz@... wrote: > > > Amber, you should give it a try. > Many small aquarium societies meet in each others home for small get > togethers to swap stories, sell fish, give presentations, or workshops. > You can also network with each other about doing group buys. As > difficult as it is for you to get items shipped to you in Alaska a > group buy on products or fish might make it more affordable for all of > you. > > You might also as a group make it more appealing for your local shop > to work with your new aquarium society. > Many of the LFS's in my area work with the aquarium societies and even > donate fish or products to help out. Some even offer discounts. One > even participates in club events and lets us have our Board of > directors meetings in his shop. > > -Mike > > -----Original Message----- > From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@... > <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com>> > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Sent: Sat, Dec 5, 2009 6:32 pm > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] questions about Yoyo loaches or other small > snail eating loaches. > > > You need to start the SAAS - South Alaska Aquarium Society... or maybe > the KMAS - Ketchikan-Metlakatla Aquarium Society.. or KAIAS - > Ketchikan-Annette Island Aquarium Society. Yeah.. I used Google Earth > to look around to see how close you were to another city/island up > there.. lol.. looks like a nice lil ferry ride between your islands. > Your island looks bigger but Annette Island looks more developed with > cities spread out and roads all over their island. Heck, I couldn't > even find a name for your island. Doing this would enable all of you > gals/guys to stay in touch and be able to sell/swap fish at monthly or > quarterly meetings. Maybe someone else up there has the wherewithal to > start up a small LFS or even just do something out of their > home/garage as a home-based business. Of course, you all could > participate at monthly meetings and auctions, even having your own > little Yahoo Group to stay in touch so everyone knows what everyone > else has for sale or swap and to make announcements. > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> (Links to any articles referenced in > above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels > and also under Archives by Year, > Month) > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] > On > Behalf Of Amber Berglund > Sent: Saturday, December 05, 2009 4:49 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] questions about Yoyo loaches or other small > snail eating loaches. > > My LFS won't buy anything from me, I could give them to him for free > perhaps (yeah right, not doing that). The owner is a jerk, I don't > even shop there when he's working. > > Amber > > Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > > > > You already have two Angelfish in that 55G... right? You have to > be > careful about bioload since most loaches need to be in shoals > of five > or more. > > > > How many times have the Angel's mated and eaten their eggs? Maybe > you > could have a divider ready for next time and separate the > adults from > the eggs as soon as they lay the eggs... if you want > them to live. > > Will your LFS buy Angelfish from you? > > > > Here's what Mongabay says about Suggested Companions for P. > scalare... > > (Loaches - Botia, et al, aren't on the list... Sorry!) > > > SC: Catfish (Armored, Pimelodids, Doradids, Loricarids), characins > > (Headstanders, hatchetfish, larger schooling tetras), cichlids > > (Angelfish, Discus, Waroo, Acaras, Ram, Eartheaters), gouramis, > > livebearers that can tolerate neutral water conditions. > > > > Maybe a school of Tetras and a Clown Pleco for additional algae > > control to help the Mystery Snails? Or a pair of pretty Rams who > would > take the other end of the tank for their breeding area? I > think I've > read that it's best to get one male and several > females until he decides which one he wants... > > God, I wish I was a fish! LOL The leftover females could populate > your > 10G tanks as well... or sell them to the LFS. I'm surprised > to see > Gourami's on the list so that leaves you plenty of options > also but > the non-dwarf's get pretty big. > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>> (Links to any articles referenced > in > above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under > Labels > and also under Archives by Year, Month) > > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On Behalf Of Amber > Berglund > Sent: Saturday, December 05, 2009 2:37 PM > To: > AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] questions about Yoyo loaches or other > small > snail eating loaches. > > > > So in other words they would eat any snail, even my big ones ;) > LOL. > > That's all I needed to know about whether I should get them for > that > tank or not. I'm considering them for the Angelfish tank > since they > still haven't had any babies (keep eating their eggs, > oh well). > Should > > I get semi-aggressive loaches if I put them in that tank? I > suppose > more aggressive ones might hurt the Angel's. > > > > Amber > > > > Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > > > > > > Well, worse case if you forget to take the food out is that > the > > snails will eat it all and reproduce even more since > most snails are > > opportunistic breeders. That should be > enough to make you remember > > to take it out the next morning. > > > > > > Or, you could tie a string around your finger when you put > the leaf > > in at night and when you wake up in the morning > with your finger > > swollen because you tied the string too > tight, that will also remind > > you about the leaf of lettuce > or spinach. > > > > > > Of course, be careful if your fish eat the spinach as it > could > > result in Popeye! Arrr! Arrr! Or should that be > > > A-gah-gah-gah-gah-gah-gah :-D > > > http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KYK3Fz6pXnA > <http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KYK3Fz6pXnA> > > <http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KYK3Fz6pXnA> > <http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KYK3Fz6pXnA>> > > > <http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KYK3Fz6pXnA > <http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KYK3Fz6pXnA> > > <http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KYK3Fz6pXnA>> > <http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KYK3Fz6pXnA>>> > > > > > > I'm not sure how effective loaches are on MTS since their > shells are > > so hard and they have trap doors. I don't think > they'll discriminate > > against eating your Mystery Snails, > regardless of size. > > > > > > If you get snail eating loaches for the tank, don't plan on > keeping > > snails in that tank any longer. > > > > > > There are also these Assassin Snails, Anentome helena, > > > > > http://forums.loaches.com/viewtopic.php?t=12094&postdays=0&postord > er=a > <http://forums.loaches.com/viewtopic.php?t=12094&postdays=0&postor > der=a> > > > <http://forums.loaches.com/viewtopic.php?t=12094&postdays=0&pos > tor > <http://forums.loaches.com/viewtopic.php?t=12094&postdays=0&postor > > > der= > > a> > > > sc&sta > > > > > > <http://forums.loaches.com/viewtopic.php?t=12094&postdays=0&pos > tor > <http://forums.loaches.com/viewtopic.php?t=12094&postdays=0&postor > > > der= > > > <http://forums.loaches.com/viewtopic.php?t=12094&postdays=0&pos > tor > <http://forums.loaches.com/viewtopic.php?t=12094&postdays=0&postor > > > der= > > > > > > asc&sta> rt=0 (five page thread) but they would also go > after your > > Mystery Snails. > > > Of course, you could always move the Assassin Snails to one > of your > > 10G's after they do their thing and then put your > Mystery Snails > > back into the 125G. Supposedly, Assassin > Snails do not breed much > > You couldn't do this with the > YoYo's or any other loaches. On a > > regular basis, and when > you get too many Mystery Snails, throw some > > into the 10G > Assassin Snail tank for them to eat. > > > > > > Check eBay and Aquabid for sellers of these snails. > > > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>> > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>>> > > (Links to any articles referenced in > > above reply are > listed on the right side, alphabetically under > > Labels and > also under Archives by Year, Month) > > > > -----Original > Message----- > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On Behalf Of > Amber Berglund > > Sent: Saturday, December 05, 2009 1:40 PM > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > Subject: [AquaticLife] questions about Yoyo loaches or other > small > > snail eating loaches. > > > > > > I was considering picking up some yoyo loaches at some point > for my > > 125 gallon tank, but I have a concern or two first. > I'm looking for > > a smaller loach that eats smaller pond/pest > snails but isn't > > aggressive at the same time, so if there's > a better one than yoyo > > loaches please feel free to let me > know, LOL. My biggest concern is > > this; Do I need to take all > my adult mystery snails out of the tank > > when I add any snail > eating loaches, or are my adult size mystery > > snails too big > for them to kill and eat? My goal is to get rid of my > > > ramshorn snails, a good portion of the MTS, and some small pond > > > snails (couldn't find any other name for them when searching for > > > them on google). If I put something in the tank I may very > well > > forget to take it out, so I haven't tried the lettuce > method yet, I > > didn't want to kill my fish by forgetting food > in the tank on accident. > > > > > > Amber > > ------------------------------------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. `..><((((>.`..`.><((((> .`.. , .`..><((((> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <((((><.`..`.<((((><.`.. , .`..<((((><`.. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the home page. Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com to receive the digest, which includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com for the No E-Mail option where you will still be able to read messages on the group and post replies. Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com to receive individual e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 44972	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 12/6/2009
Subject: Re: Acid Oceans Leave Fish at More Risk from Predators

Now that we know about ClimateGate and how those so-called tree-hugging type scientists were willing to lie about and cover up the real evidence... is there really any kind of tree-hugging type science that can be believed without seriously questioning things and getting full disclosure of their so-called science??? I know I don't trust much of what comes out of tree-hugging type scientists. They have too much of an agenda to try and extort money from governments and big-business, rather than strictly telling the truth. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Steve Szabo Sent: Sunday, December 06, 2009 2:41 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Acid Oceans Leave Fish at More Risk from Predators http://www.oceanleadership.org/2009/acid-oeans-leave-fish-at-more-risk-from- predators/ http://tinyurl.com/ydfdyk3 Acid Oceans Leave Fish at More Risk from Predators Posted by Will Ramos on Wednesday, November 25th, 2009 at 8:55 am Filed under: Discovery, News & Resources Ocean acidification could cause fish to become "fatally attracted" to their predators, according to scientists. (From BBC News) -- A team studying the effects of acidification - caused by dissolved CO2 - on ocean reefs found that it leaves fish unable to "smell danger". Young clownfish that were reared in the acidified water became attracted to rather than repelled by the chemical signals released by predatory fish. The findings were published in the journal Ecology Letters. Danielle Dixson from James Cook University in Queensland, Australia, led the study. She and her colleagues tested orange clown fish larvae that were raised in water with the same slightly alkaline pH as their ocean reef habitat, and those raised in more acidic water. The team released the fish into a "flow chamber" with two water sources flowing in parallel. One source was taken from tanks containing the clown fishes' natural predators and one was drawn from tanks in which non-predatory fish were swimming. . . . --------------------------------<continued at link>-------------------------------- \\Steve//

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 44973	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 12/6/2009
Subject: Re: [Bulk] RE: [AquaticLife] Can I treat the flukes or whatever with

Watch out \\Steve//, the Democratic Party might come knocking on your door for you to run. LOL Or... maybe I should just blindly chant... YES WE CAN!!! HAIL \\STEVE//, THE MESSIAH!!! Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Steve Szabo Sent: Sunday, December 06, 2009 2:55 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [Bulk] RE: [AquaticLife] Can I treat the flukes or whatever with miconazole? And, furthermore, if I am elected, I will promise you more efficiency in the government in raising taxes, resulting in less savings for the wage earners, leading to spending cuts by the consumer. \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Lenny V. aka GoldLenny Sent: Sunday, December 06, 2009 3:11 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [Bulk] RE: [AquaticLife] Can I treat the flukes or whatever with miconazole? Well, you need to learn how to fix your [BULK] mail issues then. Don't count on Yahoo's customer service to help though. LOL "Yahoo's customer service" is probably the biggest oxymoron on the planet... maybe even bigger than when politicians use efficiency, savings or spending cuts in anything they say. LOL Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Dora Smith Sent: Sunday, December 06, 2009 1:27 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [Bulk] RE: [AquaticLife] Can I treat the flukes or whatever with miconazole? I like Yahoo mail. I've had this account for 15 years, and I mean to have it for life. Yours, Dora Smith Austin, TX tiggernut24@... ----- Original Message ----- From: "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@...> To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Sunday, December 06, 2009 12:52 PM Subject: [Bulk] RE: [AquaticLife] Can I treat the flukes or whatever with miconazole? All the more reason to leave Yahoo Mail. Gmail is far superior to Yahoo Mail and it's free for POP3 access (as far as I know, Yahoo charges for POP3 access for downloading to OE or other email clients) and it's spam filtration if about a million times better than Yahoo's. Gmail can even access your Yahoo Mail account so you don't have to... although you may still have to check your spam folder from time to time. I'm still not sure how the [BULK] designation is being added. I still do have a Yahoo Mail account that I rarely use but I've never seen this designation. Maybe it's something you get when you pay for the Yahoo Premium Mail service but in either case, it should be trainable. OR... are you checking mail in your SPAM folder and then replying from the SPAM folder instead of marking it NOT SPAM first and then replying from your INBOX??? Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Dora Smith Sent: Sunday, December 06, 2009 11:30 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Can I treat the flukes or whatever with miconazole? Only online. I don't get my Yahoo mail online. I get it downloaded to my OE. I'm not going online every time Yahoo decides something is bulk. A quarter of my own mail to myself gets labelled bulk! Yours, Dora Smith Austin, TX tiggernut24@... ----- Original Message ----- From: "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@...> To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Sunday, December 06, 2009 11:21 AM Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Can I treat the flukes or whatever with miconazole? Can't you train or set your email client/program to NOT add the [BULK] designation to frequently received email? Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Dora Smith Sent: Sunday, December 06, 2009 10:43 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Can I treat the flukes or whatever with miconazole? I'll try this one more time. My e-mail program keeps sticking the word Bulk in front of half the mail from this list, and then multiplying it. Yours, Dora Smith Austin, TX tiggernut24@... ----- Original Message ----- From: "Dora Smith" <tiggernut24@...> To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Sunday, December 06, 2009 10:32 AM Subject: [Bulk] Re: [Bulk] RE: [AquaticLife] Can I treat the flukes or whatever with miconazole? > It's also antiparasitic, atleast in humans; it's often used to treat > flagellate protozoa, like giardia. It is also used in humans to treat > anaerobic bacteria, overgrowths of anaerobic bacteria from taking > antibiotic, and heliobacter pylori. I've taken it for these problems. > It is further used in humans to treat skin infections of follicle > mites, and to > treat roseaca. In birds it is used to treat giardia, and avian gastric > yeast, which is a primitive bacteria. > > Yours, > Dora Smith > Austin, TX > tiggernut24@... > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@...> > To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com> > Sent: Sunday, December 06, 2009 10:27 AM > Subject: [Bulk] RE: [AquaticLife] Can I treat the flukes or whatever > with miconazole? > > > This page lists parasite control meds. I do not see miconazole listed. > Look over the rest of the meds mentioned on this page. > > http://www.americanaquariumproducts.com/AquariumMedication3.html > > I knew I recognized "miconazole" and when doing a Google, I saw that > it's the active ingredient in Monistat and Micatin (don't ask how I > know about this... lol) and that it's an antifungal, not an > antiparasite medication... > so unless your fish have athletes foot or your female fish are showing > signs of... ummmm.. well I think you get the picture, then I don't > think miconazole would be the right treatment. > > I'm not even sure if salt would treat internal parasites.... not even > gill flukes from what I recall... but you could put a pinch of salt > per 10G for the benefits of better oxygen absorption through their > gills in case it is gill flukes. From what you've said in another > post, it may not be gill flukes. > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles > referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically > under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] > On Behalf Of Dora Smith > Sent: Sunday, December 06, 2009 7:21 AM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Subject: [AquaticLife] Can I treat the flukes or whatever with miconazole? > > Can I treat the flukes or whatever with miconazole? I have plenty of > that, > and I won't be able to buy praziwhatever for a week and a half; I'm > flat broke. > > If so, what exactly do I have to do with my filter media? > > Yours, > Dora Smith > Austin, TX > tiggernut24@...

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 44974	From: Dora Smith	Date: 12/6/2009
Subject: Re: Are you sure this is gill flukes?

0. Yours, Dora Smith Austin, TX tiggernut24@... ----- Original Message ----- From: "Amber Berglund" <arberglund@...> To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Sunday, December 06, 2009 2:29 PM Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Are you sure this is gill flukes? > What does your ammonia test read? > > Amber > > Dora Smith wrote: >> >> I've been watching those fish closely, and reading alot about gill >> flukes, >> and tehy aren't doing anything that suggests gill flukes. They aren't >> swimming strangely, breathing strangely, acting lethargic, or rubbing. I >> do see occasional signs of irritated gills, but nothing else. The fish >> seem perfectly healthy, and then I find them decomposing in the plastic >> plants. >> >> Yours, >> Dora Smith >> Austin, TX >> tiggernut24@... <mailto:tiggernut24%40yahoo.com> >> >> > > > ------------------------------------ > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. > ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> > PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to > the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the > SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- > <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. > > If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of unsubscribing, you > can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the > home page. > > Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com to receive the digest, which > includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email > > Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com for the No E-Mail option where > you will still be able to read messages on the group and post replies. > > Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com to receive individual > e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links > > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 44975	From: Dora Smith	Date: 12/6/2009
Subject: Contents of Dora's fish medicine cabinet

I have two Jungle parasite products; Parasite Clear, which are fizzing tablets, contain praziquantel, diflubenzuron, metronidazole, acriflavine Anti-Parsite MEdicated Fish Food for internal parasites metronidazole 1%, praziquantel 0.5%, levamisole, 0.4%. Will the internal product do any good? If not, do I need to remove the filter media befoer using the parasite clear? Plain Praziquantel is available online in 1 oz bottles. It seems you don't use too much too many times. Is there an advantage to using it alone, or should I use it iwht a broad spectrum antibiotic? I don't appear to have any more dead or sick fish today. Yours, Dora Smith Austin, TX tiggernut24@...

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 44976	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 12/6/2009
Subject: Re: questions about Yoyo loaches or other small snail eating loaches

Our island is very isolated, reguardless of whether that other island you see has an airport, it's not going to have Alaska Airlines landing there unless it's a "major" city. So the landing strips you see are either for military small planes, or small personal planes only. Honestly I have no intentions of taking my pale white butt over to Met and seeing if they have a LFS, I'd probably get mugged by the local natives (they don't like strangers in their town, LOL). Amber Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > > Have you ever checked to see if there's an LFS on that other island? I see > they also have an airport. How long is the ferry ride there? > > You might have to take a "Field Of Dreams" attitude... build it and they > will come. I know the guy who started SELAS (SouthEast Louisiana Aquarium > Society) started it up and made it free in the beginning and then once he > had a 100 or so members, he started charging but us first 100 are > grand-fathered in for free. Tropical Fish Hobbyist magazine will give > you a > free classified listing for aquarium societies. Then ask your LFS and any > others if you can put up a notice on their bulletin board. Don't be afraid > to delegate as soon as you get even one other person interested. > > I've never started an aquarium society but I have started up other > clubs and > associations. It's not a lot of work and can actually be fun if you don't > worry or take things too serious. It does help if someone else has some > organizational skills. > > Definitely start up a forum or yahoo group at the start, once a name is > determined so you do not have to try and manage email as that can get > tedious. There are ways to start up a free forum like you see on some > other > sites but I've never tried one so I'm not much help there. Yahoo Group's > are much easier IMO but they do not have the ability to have separate > forums > for different topics like website forums so everybody gets everything in a > Yahoo Group, whereas with other forums, someone can just participate > in the > sections that they like. > > I'm pretty sure others in the group have participated in starting up > aquarium societies so they may be able to help you with the details. > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right > side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) > > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On > Behalf Of Amber Berglund > Sent: Sunday, December 06, 2009 2:28 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] questions about Yoyo loaches or other small > snail > eating loaches. > > Well that would be really nice, I can't see my only LFS actually > giving out > discounts or anything though (normally his fish is very pricey). If he > doesn't even buy fish from people (cheap) then I doubt he'd give some > away, > LOL. But those are all very nice thoughts, will have to pass the word > around > and see how many people actually want to participate. > > Amber > > Deenerz@... <mailto:Deenerz%40aol.com> wrote: > > > > > > Amber, you should give it a try. > > Many small aquarium societies meet in each others home for small get > > togethers to swap stories, sell fish, give presentations, or workshops. > > You can also network with each other about doing group buys. As > > difficult as it is for you to get items shipped to you in Alaska a > > group buy on products or fish might make it more affordable for all of > > you. > > > > You might also as a group make it more appealing for your local shop > > to work with your new aquarium society. > > Many of the LFS's in my area work with the aquarium societies and even > > donate fish or products to help out. Some even offer discounts. One > > even participates in club events and lets us have our Board of > > directors meetings in his shop. > > > > -Mike > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@... > <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com> > > <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com>> > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > Sent: Sat, Dec 5, 2009 6:32 pm > > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] questions about Yoyo loaches or other small > > snail eating loaches. > > > > > > You need to start the SAAS - South Alaska Aquarium Society... or maybe > > the KMAS - Ketchikan-Metlakatla Aquarium Society.. or KAIAS - > > Ketchikan-Annette Island Aquarium Society. Yeah.. I used Google Earth > > to look around to see how close you were to another city/island up > > there.. lol.. looks like a nice lil ferry ride between your islands. > > Your island looks bigger but Annette Island looks more developed with > > cities spread out and roads all over their island. Heck, I couldn't > > even find a name for your island. Doing this would enable all of you > > gals/guys to stay in touch and be able to sell/swap fish at monthly or > > quarterly meetings. Maybe someone else up there has the wherewithal to > > start up a small LFS or even just do something out of their > > home/garage as a home-based business. Of course, you all could > > participate at monthly meetings and auctions, even having your own > > little Yahoo Group to stay in touch so everyone knows what everyone > > else has for sale or swap and to make announcements. > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>> > (Links to any articles referenced in > > above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels > > and also under Archives by Year, > > Month) > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] > > On > > Behalf Of Amber Berglund > > Sent: Saturday, December 05, 2009 4:49 PM > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] questions about Yoyo loaches or other small > > snail eating loaches. > > > > My LFS won't buy anything from me, I could give them to him for free > > perhaps (yeah right, not doing that). The owner is a jerk, I don't > > even shop there when he's working. > > > > Amber > > > > Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > > > > > > You already have two Angelfish in that 55G... right? You have to > > be > careful about bioload since most loaches need to be in shoals > > of five > or more. > > > > > > How many times have the Angel's mated and eaten their eggs? Maybe > > you > could have a divider ready for next time and separate the > > adults from > the eggs as soon as they lay the eggs... if you want > > them to live. > > > Will your LFS buy Angelfish from you? > > > > > > Here's what Mongabay says about Suggested Companions for P. > > scalare... > > > (Loaches - Botia, et al, aren't on the list... Sorry!) > > > > SC: Catfish (Armored, Pimelodids, Doradids, Loricarids), characins > > > (Headstanders, hatchetfish, larger schooling tetras), cichlids > > > (Angelfish, Discus, Waroo, Acaras, Ram, Eartheaters), gouramis, > > > livebearers that can tolerate neutral water conditions. > > > > > > Maybe a school of Tetras and a Clown Pleco for additional algae > > > control to help the Mystery Snails? Or a pair of pretty Rams who > > would > take the other end of the tank for their breeding area? I > > think I've > read that it's best to get one male and several > > females until he decides which one he wants... > > > God, I wish I was a fish! LOL The leftover females could populate > > your > 10G tanks as well... or sell them to the LFS. I'm surprised > > to see > Gourami's on the list so that leaves you plenty of options > > also but > the non-dwarf's get pretty big. > > > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>> > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>> > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>>> (Links to any articles referenced > > in > above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under > > Labels > and also under Archives by Year, Month) > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On Behalf Of Amber > > Berglund > Sent: Saturday, December 05, 2009 2:37 PM > To: > > AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] questions about Yoyo loaches or other > > small > snail eating loaches. > > > > > > So in other words they would eat any snail, even my big ones ;) > > LOL. > > > That's all I needed to know about whether I should get them for > > that > tank or not. I'm considering them for the Angelfish tank > > since they > still haven't had any babies (keep eating their eggs, > > oh well). > > Should > > > I get semi-aggressive loaches if I put them in that tank? I > > suppose > more aggressive ones might hurt the Angel's. > > > > > > Amber > > > > > > Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > > > > > > > > Well, worse case if you forget to take the food out is that > > the > > snails will eat it all and reproduce even more since > > most snails are > > opportunistic breeders. That should be > > enough to make you remember > > to take it out the next morning. > > > > > > > > Or, you could tie a string around your finger when you put > > the leaf > > in at night and when you wake up in the morning > > with your finger > > swollen because you tied the string too > > tight, that will also remind > > you about the leaf of lettuce > > or spinach. > > > > > > > > Of course, be careful if your fish eat the spinach as it > > could > > result in Popeye! Arrr! Arrr! Or should that be > > > > A-gah-gah-gah-gah-gah-gah :-D > > > > http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KYK3Fz6pXnA > <http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KYK3Fz6pXnA> > > <http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KYK3Fz6pXnA > <http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KYK3Fz6pXnA>> > > > <http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KYK3Fz6pXnA> > <http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KYK3Fz6pXnA>> > > <http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KYK3Fz6pXnA> > <http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KYK3Fz6pXnA>>> > > > > <http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KYK3Fz6pXnA > <http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KYK3Fz6pXnA> > > <http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KYK3Fz6pXnA > <http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KYK3Fz6pXnA>> > > > <http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KYK3Fz6pXnA>> > <http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KYK3Fz6pXnA>>> > > <http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KYK3Fz6pXnA>> > <http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KYK3Fz6pXnA>>>> > > > > > > > > I'm not sure how effective loaches are on MTS since their > > shells are > > so hard and they have trap doors. I don't think > > they'll discriminate > > against eating your Mystery Snails, > > regardless of size. > > > > > > > > If you get snail eating loaches for the tank, don't plan on > > keeping > > snails in that tank any longer. > > > > > > > > There are also these Assassin Snails, Anentome helena, > > > > > > > > http://forums.loaches.com/viewtopic.php?t=12094&postdays=0&postord > <http://forums.loaches.com/viewtopic.php?t=12094&postdays=0&postord> > > er=a > > > <http://forums.loaches.com/viewtopic.php?t=12094&postdays=0&postor > <http://forums.loaches.com/viewtopic.php?t=12094&postdays=0&postor> > > der=a> > > > > > > <http://forums.loaches.com/viewtopic.php?t=12094&postdays=0&pos > <http://forums.loaches.com/viewtopic.php?t=12094&postdays=0&pos> > > tor > > > <http://forums.loaches.com/viewtopic.php?t=12094&postdays=0&postor > <http://forums.loaches.com/viewtopic.php?t=12094&postdays=0&postor> > > > > > der= > > > a> > > > > sc&sta > > > > > > > > > > <http://forums.loaches.com/viewtopic.php?t=12094&postdays=0&pos > <http://forums.loaches.com/viewtopic.php?t=12094&postdays=0&pos> > > tor > > > <http://forums.loaches.com/viewtopic.php?t=12094&postdays=0&postor > <http://forums.loaches.com/viewtopic.php?t=12094&postdays=0&postor> > > > > > der= > > > > > > <http://forums.loaches.com/viewtopic.php?t=12094&postdays=0&pos > <http://forums.loaches.com/viewtopic.php?t=12094&postdays=0&pos> > > tor > > > <http://forums.loaches.com/viewtopic.php?t=12094&postdays=0&postor > <http://forums.loaches.com/viewtopic.php?t=12094&postdays=0&postor> > > > > > der= > > > > > > > > asc&sta> rt=0 (five page thread) but they would also go > > after your > > Mystery Snails. > > > > Of course, you could always move the Assassin Snails to one > > of your > > 10G's after they do their thing and then put your > > Mystery Snails > > back into the 125G. Supposedly, Assassin > > Snails do not breed much > > You couldn't do this with the > > YoYo's or any other loaches. On a > > regular basis, and when > > you get too many Mystery Snails, throw some > > into the 10G > > Assassin Snail tank for them to eat. > > > > > > > > Check eBay and Aquabid for sellers of these snails. > > > > > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>> > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>> > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>>> > > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>> > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>>> > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>>>> > > > (Links to any articles referenced in > > above reply are > > listed on the right side, alphabetically under > > Labels and > > also under Archives by Year, Month) > > > > -----Original > > Message----- > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On Behalf Of > > Amber Berglund > > Sent: Saturday, December 05, 2009 1:40 PM > > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > Subject: [AquaticLife] questions about Yoyo loaches or other > > small > > snail eating loaches. > > > > > > > > I was considering picking up some yoyo loaches at some point > > for my > > 125 gallon tank, but I have a concern or two first. > > I'm looking for > > a smaller loach that eats smaller pond/pest > > snails but isn't > > aggressive at the same time, so if there's > > a better one than yoyo > > loaches please feel free to let me > > know, LOL. My biggest concern is > > this; Do I need to take all > > my adult mystery snails out of the tank > > when I add any snail > > eating loaches, or are my adult size mystery > > snails too big > > for them to kill and eat? My goal is to get rid of my > > > > ramshorn snails, a good portion of the MTS, and some small pond > > > > snails (couldn't find any other name for them when searching for > > > > them on google). If I put something in the tank I may very > > well > > forget to take it out, so I haven't tried the lettuce > > method yet, I > > didn't want to kill my fish by forgetting food > > in the tank on accident. > > > > > > > > Amber > > > > > > ------------------------------------ > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. > `..><((((>.`..`.><((((> .`.. , .`..><((((> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a > post, > DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC > of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was > re: old subject)" <- <((((><.`..`.<((((><.`.. , .`..<((((><`.. > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. > > If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of unsubscribing, you > can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the > home page. > > Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:aquaticlife-digest%40yahoogroups.com> to receive the digest, which > includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email > > Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:aquaticlife-nomail%40yahoogroups.com> for the No E-Mail option > where > you will still be able to read messages on the group and post replies. > > Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:aquaticlife-normal%40yahoogroups.com> to receive individual > e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 44977	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 12/6/2009
Subject: Re: Are you sure this is gill flukes?

Hmm, sorry was thinking the red gills could be ammonia issues. That leaves that out unless you do PWC's every day, LOL. I'll go back to my quietness now ;) LOL. Amber Dora Smith wrote: > 0. > > Yours, > Dora Smith > Austin, TX > tiggernut24@... > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Amber Berglund" <arberglund@...> > To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com> > Sent: Sunday, December 06, 2009 2:29 PM > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Are you sure this is gill flukes? > > > >> What does your ammonia test read? >> >> Amber >> >> Dora Smith wrote: >> >>> I've been watching those fish closely, and reading alot about gill >>> flukes, >>> and tehy aren't doing anything that suggests gill flukes. They aren't >>> swimming strangely, breathing strangely, acting lethargic, or rubbing. I >>> do see occasional signs of irritated gills, but nothing else. The fish >>> seem perfectly healthy, and then I find them decomposing in the plastic >>> plants. >>> >>> Yours, >>> Dora Smith >>> Austin, TX >>> tiggernut24@... <mailto:tiggernut24%40yahoo.com> >>> >>> >>> >> ------------------------------------ >> >> Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. >> ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> >> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to >> the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the >> SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- >> <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. >> We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. >> >> If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of unsubscribing, you >> can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the >> home page. >> >> Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com to receive the digest, which >> includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email >> >> Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com for the No E-Mail option where >> you will still be able to read messages on the group and post replies. >> >> Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com to receive individual >> e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links >> >> >> >> > > > > ------------------------------------ > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. > ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> > PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- > <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. > > If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the home page. > > Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com to receive the digest, which includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email > > Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com for the No E-Mail option where you will still be able to read messages on the group and post replies. > > Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com to receive individual e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links > > > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 44978	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 12/6/2009
Subject: Re: Contents of Dora's fish medicine cabinet

I'm not sure the medicated fish food would work on the possible gill flukes. I believe the Prazi in the water column and then absorbed through the gills when the fish breathe is what kills off gill flukes. BUT... The Parasite Clear is probably overkill when you aren't even sure of the issue. The main reason I mentioned PraziPro early on is that it is very mild compared to most other medications and it's the only medication that I would use as a preventative treatment. I do not use any other medications on a preventative basis. IT IS NOT AN ANTIBIOTIC, IT'S A ANTIPARASITE TREATMENT. You do not have to worry about filter media, except for removing carbon when treating with antiparasite meds/chemicals. Only gram-positive antibiotics will possibly have an effect on the nitrifying bacteria. If you get the PraziPro, get the 1 oz. bottle, unless it costs more than the 4 oz. bottle. It will last a LONG time, even using it as a preventative treatment for new fish. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Dora Smith Sent: Sunday, December 06, 2009 3:11 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Contents of Dora's fish medicine cabinet I have two Jungle parasite products; Parasite Clear, which are fizzing tablets, contain praziquantel, diflubenzuron, metronidazole, acriflavine Anti-Parsite MEdicated Fish Food for internal parasites metronidazole 1%, praziquantel 0.5%, levamisole, 0.4%. Will the internal product do any good? If not, do I need to remove the filter media befoer using the parasite clear? Plain Praziquantel is available online in 1 oz bottles. It seems you don't use too much too many times. Is there an advantage to using it alone, or should I use it iwht a broad spectrum antibiotic? I don't appear to have any more dead or sick fish today. Yours, Dora Smith Austin, TX tiggernut24@...

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 44979	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 12/6/2009
Subject: Madagascar lace plant and other Aponogetton's

Okay so about 2-3 months ago my madagascar lace plant melted off and I think went into hibernation mode. My question is, how long does it normally hibernate? Or do they sometimes die off too? Everything else in the plant that is a smaller aponogetton bulb has also melted, not sure why, but all the other plants have been doing great the last couple months. The only Aponogetton that didn't melt off the last 2 months is my ulvaceus and it's huge, like it's always been, perhaps it doesn't hibernate like other aponogetton's? Does anyone know what causes them to hibernate? Amber

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 44980	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 12/6/2009
Subject: Re: Madagascar lace plant and other Aponogetton's

Ahh so after doing a little digging on the net I think I may have found out what happened to my little Aponogeton's. My mystery snails may have eaten them off, LOL. According to this site, Apple snails like the taste of Aponogeton plants. http://aqualandpetsplus.com/Decor%20Aponogeton.htm Amber Amber Berglund wrote: > Okay so about 2-3 months ago my madagascar lace plant melted off and I > think went into hibernation mode. My question is, how long does it > normally hibernate? Or do they sometimes die off too? Everything else > in the plant that is a smaller aponogetton bulb has also melted, not > sure why, but all the other plants have been doing great the last > couple months. The only Aponogetton that didn't melt off the last 2 > months is my ulvaceus and it's huge, like it's always been, perhaps it > doesn't hibernate like other aponogetton's? Does anyone know what > causes them to hibernate? > > Amber

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 44981	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 12/6/2009
Subject: Re: questions about Yoyo loaches or other small snail eating loaches

Well, you can probably rest assured that all of the pet stores are in Ketchikan or that other city northwest of you. I Googled that other island and can't find a single pet store on the entire island... unless they go out of their way to not be listed in any online phone book or website. BTW... GEAUX SAINTS!!!! 12-0 AFTER A 33-30 OVERTIME WIN OVER THE WASHINGTON REDSKINS!! IT WAS A WILD AND CRAZY GAME AND THE SAINTS NEVER LED THE GAME ONCE UNTIL THEY FINALLY WON IT IN OVERTIME!!!! WHO DAT? WHO DAT? WHO DAT SAY DEY GONNA BEAT DEM SAINTS!!! LOL Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Amber Berglund Sent: Sunday, December 06, 2009 3:25 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] questions about Yoyo loaches or other small snail eating loaches. Our island is very isolated, reguardless of whether that other island you see has an airport, it's not going to have Alaska Airlines landing there unless it's a "major" city. So the landing strips you see are either for military small planes, or small personal planes only. Honestly I have no intentions of taking my pale white butt over to Met and seeing if they have a LFS, I'd probably get mugged by the local natives (they don't like strangers in their town, LOL). Amber Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > > Have you ever checked to see if there's an LFS on that other island? I > see they also have an airport. How long is the ferry ride there? > > You might have to take a "Field Of Dreams" attitude... build it and > they will come. I know the guy who started SELAS (SouthEast Louisiana > Aquarium > Society) started it up and made it free in the beginning and then once > he had a 100 or so members, he started charging but us first 100 are > grand-fathered in for free. Tropical Fish Hobbyist magazine will give > you a free classified listing for aquarium societies. Then ask your > LFS and any others if you can put up a notice on their bulletin board. > Don't be afraid to delegate as soon as you get even one other person > interested. > > I've never started an aquarium society but I have started up other > clubs and associations. It's not a lot of work and can actually be fun > if you don't worry or take things too serious. It does help if someone > else has some organizational skills. > > Definitely start up a forum or yahoo group at the start, once a name > is determined so you do not have to try and manage email as that can > get tedious. There are ways to start up a free forum like you see on > some other sites but I've never tried one so I'm not much help there. > Yahoo Group's are much easier IMO but they do not have the ability to > have separate forums for different topics like website forums so > everybody gets everything in a Yahoo Group, whereas with other forums, > someone can just participate in the sections that they like. > > I'm pretty sure others in the group have participated in starting up > aquarium societies so they may be able to help you with the details. > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> (Links to any articles referenced in > above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels > and also under Archives by Year, Month) > > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On Behalf Of Amber Berglund > Sent: Sunday, December 06, 2009 2:28 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] questions about Yoyo loaches or other small > snail eating loaches. > > Well that would be really nice, I can't see my only LFS actually > giving out discounts or anything though (normally his fish is very > pricey). If he doesn't even buy fish from people (cheap) then I doubt > he'd give some away, LOL. But those are all very nice thoughts, will > have to pass the word around and see how many people actually want to > participate. > > Amber > > Deenerz@... <mailto:Deenerz%40aol.com> wrote: > > > > > > Amber, you should give it a try. > > Many small aquarium societies meet in each others home for small get > > togethers to swap stories, sell fish, give presentations, or workshops. > > You can also network with each other about doing group buys. As > > difficult as it is for you to get items shipped to you in Alaska a > > group buy on products or fish might make it more affordable for all > > of you. > > > > You might also as a group make it more appealing for your local shop > > to work with your new aquarium society. > > Many of the LFS's in my area work with the aquarium societies and > > even donate fish or products to help out. Some even offer discounts. > > One even participates in club events and lets us have our Board of > > directors meetings in his shop. > > > > -Mike > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@... > <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com> > > <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com>> > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > Sent: Sat, Dec 5, 2009 6:32 pm > > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] questions about Yoyo loaches or other > > small snail eating loaches. > > > > > > You need to start the SAAS - South Alaska Aquarium Society... or > > maybe the KMAS - Ketchikan-Metlakatla Aquarium Society.. or KAIAS - > > Ketchikan-Annette Island Aquarium Society. Yeah.. I used Google > > Earth to look around to see how close you were to another > > city/island up there.. lol.. looks like a nice lil ferry ride between your islands. > > Your island looks bigger but Annette Island looks more developed > > with cities spread out and roads all over their island. Heck, I > > couldn't even find a name for your island. Doing this would enable > > all of you gals/guys to stay in touch and be able to sell/swap fish > > at monthly or quarterly meetings. Maybe someone else up there has > > the wherewithal to start up a small LFS or even just do something > > out of their home/garage as a home-based business. Of course, you > > all could participate at monthly meetings and auctions, even having > > your own little Yahoo Group to stay in touch so everyone knows what > > everyone else has for sale or swap and to make announcements. > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>> > (Links to any articles referenced in > > above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under > > Labels and also under Archives by Year, > > Month) > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] > > On > > Behalf Of Amber Berglund > > Sent: Saturday, December 05, 2009 4:49 PM > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] questions about Yoyo loaches or other > > small snail eating loaches. > > > > My LFS won't buy anything from me, I could give them to him for free > > perhaps (yeah right, not doing that). The owner is a jerk, I don't > > even shop there when he's working. > > > > Amber > > > > Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > > > > > > You already have two Angelfish in that 55G... right? You have > > to be > careful about bioload since most loaches need to be in > > shoals of five > or more. > > > > > > How many times have the Angel's mated and eaten their eggs? > > Maybe you > could have a divider ready for next time and separate > > the adults from > the eggs as soon as they lay the eggs... if you > > want them to live. > > > Will your LFS buy Angelfish from you? > > > > > > Here's what Mongabay says about Suggested Companions for P. > > scalare... > > > (Loaches - Botia, et al, aren't on the list... Sorry!) > > > > > > SC: Catfish (Armored, Pimelodids, Doradids, Loricarids), characins > > > (Headstanders, hatchetfish, larger schooling tetras), cichlids > > > (Angelfish, Discus, Waroo, Acaras, Ram, Eartheaters), gouramis, > > > livebearers that can tolerate neutral water conditions. > > > > > > Maybe a school of Tetras and a Clown Pleco for additional algae > > > control to help the Mystery Snails? Or a pair of pretty Rams > > who would > take the other end of the tank for their breeding > > area? I think I've > read that it's best to get one male and > > several females until he decides which one he wants... > > > God, I wish I was a fish! LOL The leftover females could > > populate your > 10G tanks as well... or sell them to the LFS. I'm > > surprised to see > Gourami's on the list so that leaves you > > plenty of options also but > the non-dwarf's get pretty big. > > > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>> > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>> > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>>> (Links to any articles referenced > > in > above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically > > under Labels > and also under Archives by Year, Month) > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On Behalf Of > > Amber Berglund > Sent: Saturday, December 05, 2009 2:37 PM > To: > > AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] questions about Yoyo loaches or > > other small > snail eating loaches. > > > > > > So in other words they would eat any snail, even my big ones ;) > > LOL. > > > That's all I needed to know about whether I should get them for > > that > tank or not. I'm considering them for the Angelfish tank > > since they > still haven't had any babies (keep eating their > > eggs, oh well). > > Should > > > I get semi-aggressive loaches if I put them in that tank? I > > suppose > more aggressive ones might hurt the Angel's. > > > > > > Amber > > > > > > Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > > > > > > > > Well, worse case if you forget to take the food out is > > that the > > snails will eat it all and reproduce even more > > since most snails are > > opportunistic breeders. That should > > be enough to make you remember > > to take it out the next morning. > > > > > > > > Or, you could tie a string around your finger when you put > > the leaf > > in at night and when you wake up in the morning > > with your finger > > swollen because you tied the string too > > tight, that will also remind > > you about the leaf of lettuce > > or spinach. > > > > > > > > Of course, be careful if your fish eat the spinach as it > > could > > result in Popeye! Arrr! Arrr! Or should that be > > > > A-gah-gah-gah-gah-gah-gah :-D > > > > http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KYK3Fz6pXnA > <http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KYK3Fz6pXnA> > > <http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KYK3Fz6pXnA > <http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KYK3Fz6pXnA>> > > > <http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KYK3Fz6pXnA> > <http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KYK3Fz6pXnA>> > > <http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KYK3Fz6pXnA> > <http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KYK3Fz6pXnA>>> > > > > <http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KYK3Fz6pXnA > <http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KYK3Fz6pXnA> > > <http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KYK3Fz6pXnA > <http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KYK3Fz6pXnA>> > > > <http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KYK3Fz6pXnA>> > <http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KYK3Fz6pXnA>>> > > <http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KYK3Fz6pXnA>> > <http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KYK3Fz6pXnA>>>> > > > > > > > > I'm not sure how effective loaches are on MTS since their > > shells are > > so hard and they have trap doors. I don't think > > they'll discriminate > > against eating your Mystery Snails, > > regardless of size. > > > > > > > > If you get snail eating loaches for the tank, don't plan > > on keeping > > snails in that tank any longer. > > > > > > > > There are also these Assassin Snails, Anentome helena, > > > > > > > > http://forums.loaches.com/viewtopic.php?t=12094&postdays=0&postord > <http://forums.loaches.com/viewtopic.php?t=12094&postdays=0&postor > d> > > er=a > > > <http://forums.loaches.com/viewtopic.php?t=12094&postdays=0&postor > <http://forums.loaches.com/viewtopic.php?t=12094&postdays=0&postor > > > > der=a> > > > > > > <http://forums.loaches.com/viewtopic.php?t=12094&postdays=0&pos > <http://forums.loaches.com/viewtopic.php?t=12094&postdays=0&pos> > > tor > > > <http://forums.loaches.com/viewtopic.php?t=12094&postdays=0&postor > <http://forums.loaches.com/viewtopic.php?t=12094&postdays=0&postor > > > > > > > der= > > > a> > > > > sc&sta > > > > > > > > > > <http://forums.loaches.com/viewtopic.php?t=12094&postdays=0&pos > <http://forums.loaches.com/viewtopic.php?t=12094&postdays=0&pos> > > tor > > > <http://forums.loaches.com/viewtopic.php?t=12094&postdays=0&postor > <http://forums.loaches.com/viewtopic.php?t=12094&postdays=0&postor > > > > > > > der= > > > > > > <http://forums.loaches.com/viewtopic.php?t=12094&postdays=0&pos > <http://forums.loaches.com/viewtopic.php?t=12094&postdays=0&pos> > > tor > > > <http://forums.loaches.com/viewtopic.php?t=12094&postdays=0&postor > <http://forums.loaches.com/viewtopic.php?t=12094&postdays=0&postor > > > > > > > der= > > > > > > > > asc&sta> rt=0 (five page thread) but they would also go > > after your > > Mystery Snails. > > > > Of course, you could always move the Assassin Snails to > > one of your > > 10G's after they do their thing and then put > > your Mystery Snails > > back into the 125G. Supposedly, > > Assassin Snails do not breed much > > You couldn't do this > > with the YoYo's or any other loaches. On a > > regular basis, > > and when you get too many Mystery Snails, throw some > > into > > the 10G Assassin Snail tank for them to eat. > > > > > > > > Check eBay and Aquabid for sellers of these snails. > > > > > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>> > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>> > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>>> > > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>> > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>>> > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>>>> > > > (Links to any articles referenced in > > above reply are > > listed on the right side, alphabetically under > > Labels and > > also under Archives by Year, Month) > > > > > > -----Original > > Message----- > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On Behalf Of > > Amber Berglund > > Sent: Saturday, December 05, 2009 1:40 PM > > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > Subject: [AquaticLife] questions about Yoyo loaches or > > other small > > snail eating loaches. > > > > > > > > I was considering picking up some yoyo loaches at some > > point for my > > 125 gallon tank, but I have a concern or two first. > > I'm looking for > > a smaller loach that eats smaller > > pond/pest snails but isn't > > aggressive at the same time, so > > if there's a better one than yoyo > > loaches please feel free > > to let me know, LOL. My biggest concern is > > this; Do I need > > to take all my adult mystery snails out of the tank > > when I > > add any snail eating loaches, or are my adult size mystery > > > > snails too big for them to kill and eat? My goal is to get rid of my > > > > ramshorn snails, a good portion of the MTS, and some small > > pond > > snails (couldn't find any other name for them when > > searching for > > them on google). If I put something in the > > tank I may very well > > forget to take it out, so I haven't > > tried the lettuce method yet, I > > didn't want to kill my > > fish by forgetting food in the tank on accident. > > > > > > > > Amber > > > > > > ------------------------------------ > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. > `..><((((>.`..`.><((((> .`.. , .`..><((((> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a > post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING > the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new > subject (was > re: old subject)" <- <((((><.`..`.<((((><.`.. , .`..<((((><`.. > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. > > If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of unsubscribing, > you can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My > Membership" on the home page. > > Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:aquaticlife-digest%40yahoogroups.com> to receive the digest, > which includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email > > Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:aquaticlife-nomail%40yahoogroups.com> for the No E-Mail option > where you will still be able to read messages on the group and post > replies. > > Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:aquaticlife-normal%40yahoogroups.com> to receive individual > e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links > > ------------------------------------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the home page. Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com to receive the digest, which includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com for the No E-Mail option where you will still be able to read messages on the group and post replies. Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com to receive individual e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 44982	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 12/6/2009
Subject: Re: questions about Yoyo loaches or other small snail eating loaches

Are you looking at the community of Metlaketla? If so I doubt they have a pet store, as they come here for the vet and pet needs (on the ferry). It's an Alaskan Native American Indian reserve by the way ;) LOL. Amber Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > > Well, you can probably rest assured that all of the pet stores are in > Ketchikan or that other city northwest of you. I Googled that other island > and can't find a single pet store on the entire island... unless they > go out > of their way to not be listed in any online phone book or website. > > BTW... > > GEAUX SAINTS!!!! 12-0 AFTER A 33-30 OVERTIME WIN OVER THE WASHINGTON > REDSKINS!! IT WAS A WILD AND CRAZY GAME AND THE SAINTS NEVER LED THE GAME > ONCE UNTIL THEY FINALLY WON IT IN OVERTIME!!!! > > WHO DAT? WHO DAT? WHO DAT SAY DEY GONNA BEAT DEM SAINTS!!! LOL > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right > side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On > Behalf Of Amber Berglund > Sent: Sunday, December 06, 2009 3:25 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] questions about Yoyo loaches or other small > snail > eating loaches. > > Our island is very isolated, reguardless of whether that other island you > see has an airport, it's not going to have Alaska Airlines landing there > unless it's a "major" city. So the landing strips you see are either for > military small planes, or small personal planes only. > Honestly I have no intentions of taking my pale white butt over to Met and > seeing if they have a LFS, I'd probably get mugged by the local natives > (they don't like strangers in their town, LOL). > > Amber > > Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > > > > Have you ever checked to see if there's an LFS on that other island? I > > see they also have an airport. How long is the ferry ride there? > > > > You might have to take a "Field Of Dreams" attitude... build it and > > they will come. I know the guy who started SELAS (SouthEast Louisiana > > Aquarium > > Society) started it up and made it free in the beginning and then once > > he had a 100 or so members, he started charging but us first 100 are > > grand-fathered in for free. Tropical Fish Hobbyist magazine will give > > you a free classified listing for aquarium societies. Then ask your > > LFS and any others if you can put up a notice on their bulletin board. > > Don't be afraid to delegate as soon as you get even one other person > > interested. > > > > I've never started an aquarium society but I have started up other > > clubs and associations. It's not a lot of work and can actually be fun > > if you don't worry or take things too serious. It does help if someone > > else has some organizational skills. > > > > Definitely start up a forum or yahoo group at the start, once a name > > is determined so you do not have to try and manage email as that can > > get tedious. There are ways to start up a free forum like you see on > > some other sites but I've never tried one so I'm not much help there. > > Yahoo Group's are much easier IMO but they do not have the ability to > > have separate forums for different topics like website forums so > > everybody gets everything in a Yahoo Group, whereas with other forums, > > someone can just participate in the sections that they like. > > > > I'm pretty sure others in the group have participated in starting up > > aquarium societies so they may be able to help you with the details. > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>> > (Links to any articles referenced in > > above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels > > and also under Archives by Year, Month) > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On Behalf Of Amber Berglund > > Sent: Sunday, December 06, 2009 2:28 PM > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] questions about Yoyo loaches or other small > > snail eating loaches. > > > > Well that would be really nice, I can't see my only LFS actually > > giving out discounts or anything though (normally his fish is very > > pricey). If he doesn't even buy fish from people (cheap) then I doubt > > he'd give some away, LOL. But those are all very nice thoughts, will > > have to pass the word around and see how many people actually want to > > participate. > > > > Amber > > > > Deenerz@... <mailto:Deenerz%40aol.com> > <mailto:Deenerz%40aol.com> wrote: > > > > > > > > > Amber, you should give it a try. > > > Many small aquarium societies meet in each others home for small get > > > togethers to swap stories, sell fish, give presentations, or > workshops. > > > You can also network with each other about doing group buys. As > > > difficult as it is for you to get items shipped to you in Alaska a > > > group buy on products or fish might make it more affordable for all > > > of you. > > > > > > You might also as a group make it more appealing for your local shop > > > to work with your new aquarium society. > > > Many of the LFS's in my area work with the aquarium societies and > > > even donate fish or products to help out. Some even offer discounts. > > > One even participates in club events and lets us have our Board of > > > directors meetings in his shop. > > > > > > -Mike > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@... > <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com> > > <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com> > > > <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com>> > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > Sent: Sat, Dec 5, 2009 6:32 pm > > > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] questions about Yoyo loaches or other > > > small snail eating loaches. > > > > > > > > > You need to start the SAAS - South Alaska Aquarium Society... or > > > maybe the KMAS - Ketchikan-Metlakatla Aquarium Society.. or KAIAS - > > > Ketchikan-Annette Island Aquarium Society. Yeah.. I used Google > > > Earth to look around to see how close you were to another > > > city/island up there.. lol.. looks like a nice lil ferry ride between > your islands. > > > Your island looks bigger but Annette Island looks more developed > > > with cities spread out and roads all over their island. Heck, I > > > couldn't even find a name for your island. Doing this would enable > > > all of you gals/guys to stay in touch and be able to sell/swap fish > > > at monthly or quarterly meetings. Maybe someone else up there has > > > the wherewithal to start up a small LFS or even just do something > > > out of their home/garage as a home-based business. Of course, you > > > all could participate at monthly meetings and auctions, even having > > > your own little Yahoo Group to stay in touch so everyone knows what > > > everyone else has for sale or swap and to make announcements. > > > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>> > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>>> > > (Links to any articles referenced in > > > above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under > > > Labels and also under Archives by Year, > > > Month) > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] > > > On > > > Behalf Of Amber Berglund > > > Sent: Saturday, December 05, 2009 4:49 PM > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] questions about Yoyo loaches or other > > > small snail eating loaches. > > > > > > My LFS won't buy anything from me, I could give them to him for free > > > perhaps (yeah right, not doing that). The owner is a jerk, I don't > > > even shop there when he's working. > > > > > > Amber > > > > > > Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > > > > > > > > You already have two Angelfish in that 55G... right? You have > > > to be > careful about bioload since most loaches need to be in > > > shoals of five > or more. > > > > > > > > How many times have the Angel's mated and eaten their eggs? > > > Maybe you > could have a divider ready for next time and separate > > > the adults from > the eggs as soon as they lay the eggs... if you > > > want them to live. > > > > Will your LFS buy Angelfish from you? > > > > > > > > Here's what Mongabay says about Suggested Companions for P. > > > scalare... > > > > (Loaches - Botia, et al, aren't on the list... Sorry!) > > > > > > > > SC: Catfish (Armored, Pimelodids, Doradids, Loricarids), characins > > > > (Headstanders, hatchetfish, larger schooling tetras), cichlids > > > > (Angelfish, Discus, Waroo, Acaras, Ram, Eartheaters), gouramis, > > > > livebearers that can tolerate neutral water conditions. > > > > > > > > Maybe a school of Tetras and a Clown Pleco for additional algae > > > > control to help the Mystery Snails? Or a pair of pretty Rams > > > who would > take the other end of the tank for their breeding > > > area? I think I've > read that it's best to get one male and > > > several females until he decides which one he wants... > > > > God, I wish I was a fish! LOL The leftover females could > > > populate your > 10G tanks as well... or sell them to the LFS. I'm > > > surprised to see > Gourami's on the list so that leaves you > > > plenty of options also but > the non-dwarf's get pretty big. > > > > > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>> > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>>> > > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>> > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>>> > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>> > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>>>> (Links to any articles referenced > > > in > above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically > > > under Labels > and also under Archives by Year, Month) > > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On Behalf Of > > > Amber Berglund > Sent: Saturday, December 05, 2009 2:37 PM > To: > > > AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] questions about Yoyo loaches or > > > other small > snail eating loaches. > > > > > > > > So in other words they would eat any snail, even my big ones ;) > > > LOL. > > > > That's all I needed to know about whether I should get them for > > > that > tank or not. I'm considering them for the Angelfish tank > > > since they > still haven't had any babies (keep eating their > > > eggs, oh well). > > > Should > > > > I get semi-aggressive loaches if I put them in that tank? I > > > suppose > more aggressive ones might hurt the Angel's. > > > > > > > > Amber > > > > > > > > Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > > > > > > > > > > Well, worse case if you forget to take the food out is > > > that the > > snails will eat it all and reproduce even more > > > since most snails are > > opportunistic breeders. That should > > > be enough to make you remember > > to take it out the next > morning. > > > > > > > > > > Or, you could tie a string around your finger when you put > > > the leaf > > in at night and when you wake up in the morning > > > with your finger > > swollen because you tied the string too > > > tight, that will also remind > > you about the leaf of lettuce > > > or spinach. > > > > > > > > > > Of course, be careful if your fish eat the spinach as it > > > could > > result in Popeye! Arrr! Arrr! Or should that be > > > > > A-gah-gah-gah-gah-gah-gah :-D > > > > > http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KYK3Fz6pXnA > <http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KYK3Fz6pXnA> > > <http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KYK3Fz6pXnA > <http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KYK3Fz6pXnA>> > > > <http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KYK3Fz6pXnA > <http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KYK3Fz6pXnA> > > <http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KYK3Fz6pXnA > <http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KYK3Fz6pXnA>>> > > > > <http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KYK3Fz6pXnA> > <http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KYK3Fz6pXnA>> > > <http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KYK3Fz6pXnA> > <http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KYK3Fz6pXnA>>> > > > <http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KYK3Fz6pXnA> > <http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KYK3Fz6pXnA>> > > <http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KYK3Fz6pXnA> > <http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KYK3Fz6pXnA>>>> > > > > > <http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KYK3Fz6pXnA > <http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KYK3Fz6pXnA> > > <http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KYK3Fz6pXnA > <http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KYK3Fz6pXnA>> > > > <http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KYK3Fz6pXnA > <http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KYK3Fz6pXnA> > > <http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KYK3Fz6pXnA > <http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KYK3Fz6pXnA>>> > > > > <http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KYK3Fz6pXnA>> > <http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KYK3Fz6pXnA>>> > > <http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KYK3Fz6pXnA>> > <http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KYK3Fz6pXnA>>>> > > > <http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KYK3Fz6pXnA>> > <http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KYK3Fz6pXnA>>> > > <http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KYK3Fz6pXnA>> > <http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KYK3Fz6pXnA>>>>> > > > > > > > > > > I'm not sure how effective loaches are on MTS since their > > > shells are > > so hard and they have trap doors. I don't think > > > they'll discriminate > > against eating your Mystery Snails, > > > regardless of size. > > > > > > > > > > If you get snail eating loaches for the tank, don't plan > > > on keeping > > snails in that tank any longer. > > > > > > > > > > There are also these Assassin Snails, Anentome helena, > > > > > > > > > > > > http://forums.loaches.com/viewtopic.php?t=12094&postdays=0&postord > <http://forums.loaches.com/viewtopic.php?t=12094&postdays=0&postord> > > > <http://forums.loaches.com/viewtopic.php?t=12094&postdays=0&postor > <http://forums.loaches.com/viewtopic.php?t=12094&postdays=0&postor> > > d> > > > er=a > > > > > > <http://forums.loaches.com/viewtopic.php?t=12094&postdays=0&postor > <http://forums.loaches.com/viewtopic.php?t=12094&postdays=0&postor> > > > <http://forums.loaches.com/viewtopic.php?t=12094&postdays=0&postor > <http://forums.loaches.com/viewtopic.php?t=12094&postdays=0&postor> > > > > > > der=a> > > > > > > > > > > <http://forums.loaches.com/viewtopic.php?t=12094&postdays=0&pos > <http://forums.loaches.com/viewtopic.php?t=12094&postdays=0&pos> > > <http://forums.loaches.com/viewtopic.php?t=12094&postdays=0&pos > <http://forums.loaches.com/viewtopic.php?t=12094&postdays=0&pos>> > > > tor > > > > > > <http://forums.loaches.com/viewtopic.php?t=12094&postdays=0&postor > <http://forums.loaches.com/viewtopic.php?t=12094&postdays=0&postor> > > > <http://forums.loaches.com/viewtopic.php?t=12094&postdays=0&postor > <http://forums.loaches.com/viewtopic.php?t=12094&postdays=0&postor> > > > > > > > > > > der= > > > > a> > > > > > sc&sta > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > <http://forums.loaches.com/viewtopic.php?t=12094&postdays=0&pos > <http://forums.loaches.com/viewtopic.php?t=12094&postdays=0&pos> > > <http://forums.loaches.com/viewtopic.php?t=12094&postdays=0&pos > <http://forums.loaches.com/viewtopic.php?t=12094&postdays=0&pos>> > > > tor > > > > > > <http://forums.loaches.com/viewtopic.php?t=12094&postdays=0&postor > <http://forums.loaches.com/viewtopic.php?t=12094&postdays=0&postor> > > > <http://forums.loaches.com/viewtopic.php?t=12094&postdays=0&postor > <http://forums.loaches.com/viewtopic.php?t=12094&postdays=0&postor> > > > > > > > > > > der= > > > > > > > > > > <http://forums.loaches.com/viewtopic.php?t=12094&postdays=0&pos > <http://forums.loaches.com/viewtopic.php?t=12094&postdays=0&pos> > > <http://forums.loaches.com/viewtopic.php?t=12094&postdays=0&pos > <http://forums.loaches.com/viewtopic.php?t=12094&postdays=0&pos>> > > > tor > > > > > > <http://forums.loaches.com/viewtopic.php?t=12094&postdays=0&postor > <http://forums.loaches.com/viewtopic.php?t=12094&postdays=0&postor> > > > <http://forums.loaches.com/viewtopic.php?t=12094&postdays=0&postor > <http://forums.loaches.com/viewtopic.php?t=12094&postdays=0&postor> > > > > > > > > > > der= > > > > > > > > > > asc&sta> rt=0 (five page thread) but they would also go > > > after your > > Mystery Snails. > > > > > Of course, you could always move the Assassin Snails to > > > one of your > > 10G's after they do their thing and then put > > > your Mystery Snails > > back into the 125G. Supposedly, > > > Assassin Snails do not breed much > > You couldn't do this > > > with the YoYo's or any other loaches. On a > > regular basis, > > > and when you get too many Mystery Snails, throw some > > into > > > the 10G Assassin Snail tank for them to eat. > > > > > > > > > > Check eBay and Aquabid for sellers of these snails. > > > > > > > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > > > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>> > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>>> > > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>> > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>>> > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>> > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>>>> > > > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>> > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>>> > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>>> > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>>>> > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>>> > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>>>>> > > > > (Links to any articles referenced in > > above reply are > > > listed on the right side, alphabetically under > > Labels and > > > also under Archives by Year, Month) > > > > > > > -----Original > > > Message----- > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On Behalf Of > > > Amber Berglund > > Sent: Saturday, December 05, 2009 1:40 PM > > > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > Subject: [AquaticLife] questions about Yoyo loaches or > > > other small > > snail eating loaches. > > > > > > > > > > I was considering picking up some yoyo loaches at some > > > point for my > > 125 gallon tank, but I have a concern or two > first. > > > I'm looking for > > a smaller loach that eats smaller > > > pond/pest snails but isn't > > aggressive at the same time, so > > > if there's a better one than yoyo > > loaches please feel free > > > to let me know, LOL. My biggest concern is > > this; Do I need > > > to take all my adult mystery snails out of the tank > > when I > > > add any snail eating loaches, or are my adult size mystery > > > > > snails too big for them to kill and eat? My goal is to get rid of my > > > > > ramshorn snails, a good portion of the MTS, and some small > > > pond > > snails (couldn't find any other name for them when > > > searching for > > them on google). If I put something in the > > > tank I may very well > > forget to take it out, so I haven't > > > tried the lettuce method yet, I > > didn't want to kill my > > > fish by forgetting food in the tank on accident. > > > > > > > > > > Amber > > > > > > > > > > ------------------------------------ > > > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, > Thank You. > > `..><((((>.`..`.><((((> .`.. , .`..><((((> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a > > post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING > > the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new > > subject (was > > re: old subject)" <- <((((><.`..`.<((((><.`.. , .`..<((((><`.. > > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. > > > > If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of unsubscribing, > > you can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My > > Membership" on the home page. > > > > Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:aquaticlife-digest%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:aquaticlife-digest%40yahoogroups.com> to receive the digest, > > which includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email > > > > Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:aquaticlife-nomail%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:aquaticlife-nomail%40yahoogroups.com> for the No E-Mail option > > where you will still be able to read messages on the group and post > > replies. > > > > Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:aquaticlife-normal%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:aquaticlife-normal%40yahoogroups.com> to receive individual > > e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > ------------------------------------ > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. > ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> > PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to > the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the > SUBJECT > LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- > <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. > > If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of unsubscribing, you > can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the > home page. > > Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:aquaticlife-digest%40yahoogroups.com> to receive the digest, which > includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email > > Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:aquaticlife-nomail%40yahoogroups.com> for the No E-Mail option > where > you will still be able to read messages on the group and post replies. > > Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:aquaticlife-normal%40yahoogroups.com> to receive individual > e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 44983	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 12/6/2009
Subject: Re: Madagascar lace plant and other Aponogetton's

Have you read this thread on TheKrib.com? http://www.thekrib.com/Plants/Plants/madagascar.html Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Amber Berglund Sent: Sunday, December 06, 2009 4:04 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Madagascar lace plant and other Aponogetton's Okay so about 2-3 months ago my madagascar lace plant melted off and I think went into hibernation mode. My question is, how long does it normally hibernate? Or do they sometimes die off too? Everything else in the plant that is a smaller aponogetton bulb has also melted, not sure why, but all the other plants have been doing great the last couple months. The only Aponogetton that didn't melt off the last 2 months is my ulvaceus and it's huge, like it's always been, perhaps it doesn't hibernate like other aponogetton's? Does anyone know what causes them to hibernate? Amber ------------------------------------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the home page. Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com to receive the digest, which includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com for the No E-Mail option where you will still be able to read messages on the group and post replies. Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com to receive individual e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 44984	From: Dora Smith	Date: 12/6/2009
Subject: Re: [Bulk] RE: [AquaticLife] Contents of Dora's fish medicine cabine

Oh, OK, then. Yours, Dora Smith Austin, TX tiggernut24@... ----- Original Message ----- From: "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@...> To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Sunday, December 06, 2009 3:38 PM Subject: [Bulk] RE: [AquaticLife] Contents of Dora's fish medicine cabinet I'm not sure the medicated fish food would work on the possible gill flukes. I believe the Prazi in the water column and then absorbed through the gills when the fish breathe is what kills off gill flukes. BUT... The Parasite Clear is probably overkill when you aren't even sure of the issue. The main reason I mentioned PraziPro early on is that it is very mild compared to most other medications and it's the only medication that I would use as a preventative treatment. I do not use any other medications on a preventative basis. IT IS NOT AN ANTIBIOTIC, IT'S A ANTIPARASITE TREATMENT. You do not have to worry about filter media, except for removing carbon when treating with antiparasite meds/chemicals. Only gram-positive antibiotics will possibly have an effect on the nitrifying bacteria. If you get the PraziPro, get the 1 oz. bottle, unless it costs more than the 4 oz. bottle. It will last a LONG time, even using it as a preventative treatment for new fish. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Dora Smith Sent: Sunday, December 06, 2009 3:11 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Contents of Dora's fish medicine cabinet I have two Jungle parasite products; Parasite Clear, which are fizzing tablets, contain praziquantel, diflubenzuron, metronidazole, acriflavine Anti-Parsite MEdicated Fish Food for internal parasites metronidazole 1%, praziquantel 0.5%, levamisole, 0.4%. Will the internal product do any good? If not, do I need to remove the filter media befoer using the parasite clear? Plain Praziquantel is available online in 1 oz bottles. It seems you don't use too much too many times. Is there an advantage to using it alone, or should I use it iwht a broad spectrum antibiotic? I don't appear to have any more dead or sick fish today. Yours, Dora Smith Austin, TX tiggernut24@... ------------------------------------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the home page. Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com to receive the digest, which includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com for the No E-Mail option where you will still be able to read messages on the group and post replies. Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com to receive individual e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 44985	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 12/6/2009
Subject: 5 fish species beginners make the mistake of buying.

http://articleproman.com/2009/12/5-fish-species-beginners-make-the-mistake-o f-buying/ http://tinyurl.com/yzvmwvr 5 fish species beginners make the mistake of buying. 04.12.2009 | Author: rokebahmed | Posted in Finance Below you will find info on fish species that beginners often buy but that are unsuitable for most beginners aquarists. There are many reasons why these fish are commonly bought by beginners even though they truly are not suitable for this including but not limited to bad advice in the fish store, lack of knowledge or simply because the fish looks good in the store. A few of the fish I mention in this article make great aquarium fish for more advanced aquarists but are not suited for beginners. Some species are not suitable pet fish period and you should never ever buy these species. . . . ---------------------------<continued at link>---------------------------- \\Steve//

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 44986	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 12/6/2009
Subject: Re: Madagascar lace plant and other Aponogetton's

Thanks, good to know, so now I need to know why my crispus died off (or is going dormant). My temps have not been lowered so they shouldn't be going dormant. Well the madagascar lace shouldn't be at least, so it must have died off (used all it's reserves). Perhaps the snails at the bolvinius and crispus aponogeton's, they were doing fine until about 2 months ago or so. I didn't add any fish or change anything (besides the water and dirty filters, lol). Amber Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > > Have you read this thread on TheKrib.com? > > http://www.thekrib.com/Plants/Plants/madagascar.html > <http://www.thekrib.com/Plants/Plants/madagascar.html> > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right > side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On > Behalf Of Amber Berglund > Sent: Sunday, December 06, 2009 4:04 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Subject: [AquaticLife] Madagascar lace plant and other Aponogetton's > > Okay so about 2-3 months ago my madagascar lace plant melted off and I > think > went into hibernation mode. My question is, how long does it normally > hibernate? Or do they sometimes die off too? Everything else in the plant > that is a smaller aponogetton bulb has also melted, not sure why, but all > the other plants have been doing great the last couple months. The only > Aponogetton that didn't melt off the last 2 months is my ulvaceus and it's > huge, like it's always been, perhaps it doesn't hibernate like other > aponogetton's? Does anyone know what causes them to hibernate? > > Amber > > ------------------------------------ > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. > ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> > PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to > the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the > SUBJECT > LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- > <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. > > If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of unsubscribing, you > can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the > home page. > > Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:aquaticlife-digest%40yahoogroups.com> to receive the digest, which > includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email > > Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:aquaticlife-nomail%40yahoogroups.com> for the No E-Mail option > where > you will still be able to read messages on the group and post replies. > > Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:aquaticlife-normal%40yahoogroups.com> to receive individual > e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 44987	From: bill 1433	Date: 12/6/2009
Subject: Re: questions about Yoyo loaches or other small snail eating loaches

Hi Amber,   You may also take into account the reverse of some of the points Mike is making; namely the LPS, which has given you fits before.   You really think he wants to give "fits" to 12 people?   It's the old history lesson girl!  "In unity there is strength"!   Bill --- On Sun, 12/6/09, Deenerz@... <Deenerz@...> wrote: From: Deenerz@... <Deenerz@...> Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] questions about Yoyo loaches or other small snail eating loaches. To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Date: Sunday, December 6, 2009, 5:05 AM Amber, you should give it a try. Many small aquarium societies meet in each others home for small get togethers to swap stories, sell fish, give presentations, or workshops. You can also network with each other about doing group buys. As difficult as it is for you to get items shipped to you in Alaska a group buy on products or fish might make it more affordable for all of you. You might also as a group make it more appealing for your local shop to work with your new aquarium society. Many of the LFS's in my area work with the aquarium societies and even donate fish or products to help out. Some even offer discounts. One even participates in club events and lets us have our Board of directors meetings in his shop. -Mike -----Original Message----- From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@...> To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Sat, Dec 5, 2009 6:32 pm Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] questions about Yoyo loaches or other small snail eating loaches.   You need to start the SAAS - South Alaska Aquarium Society... or maybe the KMAS - Ketchikan-Metlakatla Aquarium Society.. or KAIAS - Ketchikan-Annette Island Aquarium Society.  Yeah.. I used Google Earth to look around to see how close you were to another city/island up there.. lol.. looks like a nice lil ferry ride between your islands.  Your island looks bigger but Annette Island looks more developed with cities spread out and roads all over their island.  Heck, I couldn't even find a name for your island.  Doing this would enable all of you gals/guys to stay in touch and be able to sell/swap fish at monthly or quarterly meetings.  Maybe someone else up there has the wherewithal to start up a small LFS or even just do something out of their home/garage as a home-based business.  Of course, you all could participate at monthly meetings and auctions, even having your own little Yahoo Group to stay in touch so everyone knows what everyone else has for sale or swap and to make announcements. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Amber Berglund Sent: Saturday, December 05, 2009 4:49 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] questions about Yoyo loaches or other small snail eating loaches. My LFS won't buy anything from me, I could give them to him for free perhaps (yeah right, not doing that). The owner is a jerk, I don't even shop there when he's working. Amber Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > > You already have two Angelfish in that 55G... right? You have to be > careful about bioload since most loaches need to be in shoals of five > or more. > > How many times have the Angel's mated and eaten their eggs? Maybe you > could have a divider ready for next time and separate the adults from > the eggs as soon as they lay the eggs... if you want them to live. > Will your LFS buy Angelfish from you? > > Here's what Mongabay says about Suggested Companions for P. scalare... > (Loaches - Botia, et al, aren't on the list... Sorry!) > > SC: Catfish (Armored, Pimelodids, Doradids, Loricarids), characins > (Headstanders, hatchetfish, larger schooling tetras), cichlids > (Angelfish, Discus, Waroo, Acaras, Ram, Eartheaters), gouramis, > livebearers that can tolerate neutral water conditions. > > Maybe a school of Tetras and a Clown Pleco for additional algae > control to help the Mystery Snails? Or a pair of pretty Rams who would > take the other end of the tank for their breeding area? I think I've > read that it's best to get one male and several females until he decides which one he wants... > God, I wish I was a fish! LOL  The leftover females could populate your > 10G tanks as well... or sell them to the LFS. I'm surprised to see > Gourami's on the list so that leaves you plenty of options also but > the non-dwarf's get pretty big. > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> (Links to any articles referenced in > above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels > and also under Archives by Year, Month) > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On Behalf Of Amber Berglund > Sent: Saturday, December 05, 2009 2:37 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] questions about Yoyo loaches or other small > snail eating loaches. > > So in other words they would eat any snail, even my big ones ;) LOL. > That's all I needed to know about whether I should get them for that > tank or not. I'm considering them for the Angelfish tank since they > still haven't had any babies (keep eating their eggs, oh well). Should > I get semi-aggressive loaches if I put them in that tank? I suppose > more aggressive ones might hurt the Angel's. > > Amber > > Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > > > > Well, worse case if you forget to take the food out is that the > > snails will eat it all and reproduce even more since most snails are > > opportunistic breeders. That should be enough to make you remember > > to take it out the next morning. > > > > Or, you could tie a string around your finger when you put the leaf > > in at night and when you wake up in the morning with your finger > > swollen because you tied the string too tight, that will also remind > > you about the leaf of lettuce or spinach. > > > > Of course, be careful if your fish eat the spinach as it could > > result in Popeye! Arrr! Arrr! Or should that be > > A-gah-gah-gah-gah-gah-gah :-D > > http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KYK3Fz6pXnA > <http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KYK3Fz6pXnA> > > <http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KYK3Fz6pXnA > <http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KYK3Fz6pXnA>> > > > > I'm not sure how effective loaches are on MTS since their shells are > > so hard and they have trap doors. I don't think they'll discriminate > > against eating your Mystery Snails, regardless of size. > > > > If you get snail eating loaches for the tank, don't plan on keeping > > snails in that tank any longer. > > > > There are also these Assassin Snails, Anentome helena, > > > http://forums.loaches.com/viewtopic.php?t=12094&postdays=0&postorder=a > <http://forums.loaches.com/viewtopic.php?t=12094&postdays=0&postor der= > a> > > sc&sta > > > <http://forums.loaches.com/viewtopic.php?t=12094&postdays=0&postor der= > <http://forums.loaches.com/viewtopic.php?t=12094&postdays=0&postor der= > > > > asc&sta> rt=0 (five page thread) but they would also go after your > > Mystery Snails. > > Of course, you could always move the Assassin Snails to one of your > > 10G's after they do their thing and then put your Mystery Snails > > back into the 125G. Supposedly, Assassin Snails do not breed much > > You couldn't do this with the YoYo's or any other loaches. On a > > regular basis, and when you get too many Mystery Snails, throw some > > into the 10G Assassin Snail tank for them to eat. > > > > Check eBay and Aquabid for sellers of these snails. > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>> > (Links to any articles referenced in > > above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under > > Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On Behalf Of Amber Berglund > > Sent: Saturday, December 05, 2009 1:40 PM > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > Subject: [AquaticLife] questions about Yoyo loaches or other small > > snail eating loaches. > > > > I was considering picking up some yoyo loaches at some point for my > > 125 gallon tank, but I have a concern or two first. I'm looking for > > a smaller loach that eats smaller pond/pest snails but isn't > > aggressive at the same time, so if there's a better one than yoyo > > loaches please feel free to let me know, LOL. My biggest concern is > > this; Do I need to take all my adult mystery snails out of the tank > > when I add any snail eating loaches, or are my adult size mystery > > snails too big for them to kill and eat? My goal is to get rid of my > > ramshorn snails, a good portion of the MTS, and some small pond > > snails (couldn't find any other name for them when searching for > > them on google). If I put something in the tank I may very well > > forget to take it out, so I haven't tried the lettuce method yet, I > > didn't want to kill my fish by forgetting food in the tank on accident. > > > > Amber               ------------------------------------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the home page.  Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com to receive the digest, which includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com for the No E-Mail option where you will still be able to read messages on the group and post replies. Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com to receive individual e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 44988	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 12/6/2009
Subject: Re: questions about Yoyo loaches or other small snail eating loaches

Yeah.. I was looking all over that island. So.. which store is your LFS? Ketchikan Pet Center or Hasting's Pet Palace? Do both of them sell fish? They both showed up in my Google searches. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Amber Berglund Sent: Sunday, December 06, 2009 4:11 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] questions about Yoyo loaches or other small snail eating loaches. Are you looking at the community of Metlaketla? If so I doubt they have a pet store, as they come here for the vet and pet needs (on the ferry). It's an Alaskan Native American Indian reserve by the way ;) LOL. Amber Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > > Well, you can probably rest assured that all of the pet stores are in > Ketchikan or that other city northwest of you. I Googled that other > island and can't find a single pet store on the entire island... > unless they go out of their way to not be listed in any online phone > book or website. > > BTW... > > GEAUX SAINTS!!!! 12-0 AFTER A 33-30 OVERTIME WIN OVER THE WASHINGTON > REDSKINS!! IT WAS A WILD AND CRAZY GAME AND THE SAINTS NEVER LED THE > GAME ONCE UNTIL THEY FINALLY WON IT IN OVERTIME!!!! > > WHO DAT? WHO DAT? WHO DAT SAY DEY GONNA BEAT DEM SAINTS!!! LOL > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> (Links to any articles referenced in > above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels > and also under Archives by Year, Month) > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On Behalf Of Amber Berglund > Sent: Sunday, December 06, 2009 3:25 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] questions about Yoyo loaches or other small > snail eating loaches. > > Our island is very isolated, reguardless of whether that other island > you see has an airport, it's not going to have Alaska Airlines landing > there unless it's a "major" city. So the landing strips you see are > either for military small planes, or small personal planes only. > Honestly I have no intentions of taking my pale white butt over to Met > and seeing if they have a LFS, I'd probably get mugged by the local > natives (they don't like strangers in their town, LOL). > > Amber > > Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > > > > Have you ever checked to see if there's an LFS on that other island? > > I see they also have an airport. How long is the ferry ride there? > > > > You might have to take a "Field Of Dreams" attitude... build it and > > they will come. I know the guy who started SELAS (SouthEast > > Louisiana Aquarium > > Society) started it up and made it free in the beginning and then > > once he had a 100 or so members, he started charging but us first > > 100 are grand-fathered in for free. Tropical Fish Hobbyist magazine > > will give you a free classified listing for aquarium societies. Then > > ask your LFS and any others if you can put up a notice on their bulletin board. > > Don't be afraid to delegate as soon as you get even one other person > > interested. > > > > I've never started an aquarium society but I have started up other > > clubs and associations. It's not a lot of work and can actually be > > fun if you don't worry or take things too serious. It does help if > > someone else has some organizational skills. > > > > Definitely start up a forum or yahoo group at the start, once a name > > is determined so you do not have to try and manage email as that can > > get tedious. There are ways to start up a free forum like you see on > > some other sites but I've never tried one so I'm not much help there. > > Yahoo Group's are much easier IMO but they do not have the ability > > to have separate forums for different topics like website forums so > > everybody gets everything in a Yahoo Group, whereas with other > > forums, someone can just participate in the sections that they like. > > > > I'm pretty sure others in the group have participated in starting up > > aquarium societies so they may be able to help you with the details. > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>> > (Links to any articles referenced in > > above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under > > Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On Behalf Of Amber Berglund > > Sent: Sunday, December 06, 2009 2:28 PM > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] questions about Yoyo loaches or other > > small snail eating loaches. > > > > Well that would be really nice, I can't see my only LFS actually > > giving out discounts or anything though (normally his fish is very > > pricey). If he doesn't even buy fish from people (cheap) then I > > doubt he'd give some away, LOL. But those are all very nice > > thoughts, will have to pass the word around and see how many people > > actually want to participate. > > > > Amber > > > > Deenerz@... <mailto:Deenerz%40aol.com> > <mailto:Deenerz%40aol.com> wrote: > > > > > > > > > Amber, you should give it a try. > > > Many small aquarium societies meet in each others home for small > > > get togethers to swap stories, sell fish, give presentations, or > workshops. > > > You can also network with each other about doing group buys. As > > > difficult as it is for you to get items shipped to you in Alaska a > > > group buy on products or fish might make it more affordable for > > > all of you. > > > > > > You might also as a group make it more appealing for your local > > > shop to work with your new aquarium society. > > > Many of the LFS's in my area work with the aquarium societies and > > > even donate fish or products to help out. Some even offer discounts. > > > One even participates in club events and lets us have our Board of > > > directors meetings in his shop. > > > > > > -Mike > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@... > <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com> > > <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com> > > > <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com>> > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > Sent: Sat, Dec 5, 2009 6:32 pm > > > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] questions about Yoyo loaches or other > > > small snail eating loaches. > > > > > > > > > You need to start the SAAS - South Alaska Aquarium Society... or > > > maybe the KMAS - Ketchikan-Metlakatla Aquarium Society.. or KAIAS > > > - Ketchikan-Annette Island Aquarium Society. Yeah.. I used Google > > > Earth to look around to see how close you were to another > > > city/island up there.. lol.. looks like a nice lil ferry ride > > > between > your islands. > > > Your island looks bigger but Annette Island looks more developed > > > with cities spread out and roads all over their island. Heck, I > > > couldn't even find a name for your island. Doing this would enable > > > all of you gals/guys to stay in touch and be able to sell/swap > > > fish at monthly or quarterly meetings. Maybe someone else up there > > > has the wherewithal to start up a small LFS or even just do > > > something out of their home/garage as a home-based business. Of > > > course, you all could participate at monthly meetings and > > > auctions, even having your own little Yahoo Group to stay in touch > > > so everyone knows what everyone else has for sale or swap and to make announcements. > > > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>> > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>>> > > (Links to any articles referenced in > > > above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under > > > Labels and also under Archives by Year, > > > Month) > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] > > > On > > > Behalf Of Amber Berglund > > > Sent: Saturday, December 05, 2009 4:49 PM > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] questions about Yoyo loaches or other > > > small snail eating loaches. > > > > > > My LFS won't buy anything from me, I could give them to him for > > > free perhaps (yeah right, not doing that). The owner is a jerk, I > > > don't even shop there when he's working. > > > > > > Amber > > > > > > Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > > > > > > > > You already have two Angelfish in that 55G... right? You have > > > to be > careful about bioload since most loaches need to be in > > > shoals of five > or more. > > > > > > > > How many times have the Angel's mated and eaten their eggs? > > > Maybe you > could have a divider ready for next time and > > > separate the adults from > the eggs as soon as they lay the > > > eggs... if you want them to live. > > > > Will your LFS buy Angelfish from you? > > > > > > > > Here's what Mongabay says about Suggested Companions for P. > > > scalare... > > > > (Loaches - Botia, et al, aren't on the list... Sorry!) > > > > > > > > SC: Catfish (Armored, Pimelodids, Doradids, Loricarids), characins > > > > (Headstanders, hatchetfish, larger schooling tetras), > > > cichlids > (Angelfish, Discus, Waroo, Acaras, Ram, > > > Eartheaters), gouramis, > livebearers that can tolerate neutral water conditions. > > > > > > > > Maybe a school of Tetras and a Clown Pleco for additional > > > algae > control to help the Mystery Snails? Or a pair of pretty > > > Rams who would > take the other end of the tank for their > > > breeding area? I think I've > read that it's best to get one > > > male and several females until he decides which one he wants... > > > > God, I wish I was a fish! LOL The leftover females could > > > populate your > 10G tanks as well... or sell them to the LFS. > > > I'm surprised to see > Gourami's on the list so that leaves you > > > plenty of options also but > the non-dwarf's get pretty big. > > > > > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>> > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>>> > > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>> > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>>> > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>> > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>>>> (Links to any articles > referenced > > > in > above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically > > > under Labels > and also under Archives by Year, Month) > > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: > > > AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On Behalf Of > > > Amber Berglund > Sent: Saturday, December 05, 2009 2:37 PM > To: > > > AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] questions about Yoyo loaches or > > > other small > snail eating loaches. > > > > > > > > So in other words they would eat any snail, even my big ones > > > ;) LOL. > > > > That's all I needed to know about whether I should get them > > > for that > tank or not. I'm considering them for the Angelfish > > > tank since they > still haven't had any babies (keep eating > > > their eggs, oh well). > > > Should > > > > I get semi-aggressive loaches if I put them in that tank? I > > > suppose > more aggressive ones might hurt the Angel's. > > > > > > > > Amber > > > > > > > > Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > > > > > > > > > > Well, worse case if you forget to take the food out is > > > that the > > snails will eat it all and reproduce even more > > > since most snails are > > opportunistic breeders. That > > > should be enough to make you remember > > to take it out the > > > next > morning. > > > > > > > > > > Or, you could tie a string around your finger when you > > > put the leaf > > in at night and when you wake up in the > > > morning with your finger > > swollen because you tied the > > > string too tight, that will also remind > > you about the > > > leaf of lettuce or spinach. > > > > > > > > > > Of course, be careful if your fish eat the spinach as it > > > could > > result in Popeye! Arrr! Arrr! Or should that be > > > > > A-gah-gah-gah-gah-gah-gah :-D > > > > > http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KYK3Fz6pXnA > <http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KYK3Fz6pXnA> > > <http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KYK3Fz6pXnA > <http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KYK3Fz6pXnA>> > > > <http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KYK3Fz6pXnA > <http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KYK3Fz6pXnA> > > <http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KYK3Fz6pXnA > <http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KYK3Fz6pXnA>>> > > > > <http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KYK3Fz6pXnA> > <http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KYK3Fz6pXnA>> > > <http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KYK3Fz6pXnA> > <http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KYK3Fz6pXnA>>> > > > <http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KYK3Fz6pXnA> > <http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KYK3Fz6pXnA>> > > <http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KYK3Fz6pXnA> > <http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KYK3Fz6pXnA>>>> > > > > > <http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KYK3Fz6pXnA > <http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KYK3Fz6pXnA> > > <http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KYK3Fz6pXnA > <http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KYK3Fz6pXnA>> > > > <http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KYK3Fz6pXnA > <http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KYK3Fz6pXnA> > > <http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KYK3Fz6pXnA > <http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KYK3Fz6pXnA>>> > > > > <http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KYK3Fz6pXnA>> > <http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KYK3Fz6pXnA>>> > > <http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KYK3Fz6pXnA>> > <http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KYK3Fz6pXnA>>>> > > > <http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KYK3Fz6pXnA>> > <http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KYK3Fz6pXnA>>> > > <http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KYK3Fz6pXnA>> > <http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KYK3Fz6pXnA>>>>> > > > > > > > > > > I'm not sure how effective loaches are on MTS since > > > their shells are > > so hard and they have trap doors. I > > > don't think they'll discriminate > > against eating your > > > Mystery Snails, regardless of size. > > > > > > > > > > If you get snail eating loaches for the tank, don't plan > > > on keeping > > snails in that tank any longer. > > > > > > > > > > There are also these Assassin Snails, Anentome helena, > > > > > > > > > > > > http://forums.loaches.com/viewtopic.php?t=12094&postdays=0&postord > <http://forums.loaches.com/viewtopic.php?t=12094&postdays=0&postor > d> > > > <http://forums.loaches.com/viewtopic.php?t=12094&postdays=0&postor > <http://forums.loaches.com/viewtopic.php?t=12094&postdays=0&postor > > > > d> > > > er=a > > > > > > <http://forums.loaches.com/viewtopic.php?t=12094&postdays=0&postor > <http://forums.loaches.com/viewtopic.php?t=12094&postdays=0&postor > > > > > <http://forums.loaches.com/viewtopic.php?t=12094&postdays=0&postor > <http://forums.loaches.com/viewtopic.php?t=12094&postdays=0&postor > > > > > > > > der=a> > > > > > > > > > > <http://forums.loaches.com/viewtopic.php?t=12094&postdays=0&pos > <http://forums.loaches.com/viewtopic.php?t=12094&postdays=0&pos> > > <http://forums.loaches.com/viewtopic.php?t=12094&postdays=0&pos > <http://forums.loaches.com/viewtopic.php?t=12094&postdays=0&pos>> > > > tor > > > > > > <http://forums.loaches.com/viewtopic.php?t=12094&postdays=0&postor > <http://forums.loaches.com/viewtopic.php?t=12094&postdays=0&postor > > > > > <http://forums.loaches.com/viewtopic.php?t=12094&postdays=0&postor > <http://forums.loaches.com/viewtopic.php?t=12094&postdays=0&postor > > > > > > > > > > > > der= > > > > a> > > > > > sc&sta > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > <http://forums.loaches.com/viewtopic.php?t=12094&postdays=0&pos > <http://forums.loaches.com/viewtopic.php?t=12094&postdays=0&pos> > > <http://forums.loaches.com/viewtopic.php?t=12094&postdays=0&pos > <http://forums.loaches.com/viewtopic.php?t=12094&postdays=0&pos>> > > > tor > > > > > > <http://forums.loaches.com/viewtopic.php?t=12094&postdays=0&postor > <http://forums.loaches.com/viewtopic.php?t=12094&postdays=0&postor > > > > > <http://forums.loaches.com/viewtopic.php?t=12094&postdays=0&postor > <http://forums.loaches.com/viewtopic.php?t=12094&postdays=0&postor > > > > > > > > > > > > der= > > > > > > > > > > <http://forums.loaches.com/viewtopic.php?t=12094&postdays=0&pos > <http://forums.loaches.com/viewtopic.php?t=12094&postdays=0&pos> > > <http://forums.loaches.com/viewtopic.php?t=12094&postdays=0&pos > <http://forums.loaches.com/viewtopic.php?t=12094&postdays=0&pos>> > > > tor > > > > > > <http://forums.loaches.com/viewtopic.php?t=12094&postdays=0&postor > <http://forums.loaches.com/viewtopic.php?t=12094&postdays=0&postor > > > > > <http://forums.loaches.com/viewtopic.php?t=12094&postdays=0&postor > <http://forums.loaches.com/viewtopic.php?t=12094&postdays=0&postor > > > > > > > > > > > > der= > > > > > > > > > > asc&sta> rt=0 (five page thread) but they would also > > > go after your > > Mystery Snails. > > > > > Of course, you could always move the Assassin Snails to > > > one of your > > 10G's after they do their thing and then put > > > your Mystery Snails > > back into the 125G. Supposedly, > > > Assassin Snails do not breed much > > You couldn't do this > > > with the YoYo's or any other loaches. On a > > regular > > > basis, and when you get too many Mystery Snails, throw some > > > > > into the 10G Assassin Snail tank for them to eat. > > > > > > > > > > Check eBay and Aquabid for sellers of these snails. > > > > > > > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > > > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>> > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>>> > > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>> > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>>> > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>> > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>>>> > > > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>> > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>>> > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>>> > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>>>> > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>>> > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>>>>> > > > > (Links to any articles referenced in > > above reply > > > are listed on the right side, alphabetically under > > > > > Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) > > > > > > > -----Original > > > Message----- > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On Behalf > > > Of Amber Berglund > > Sent: Saturday, December 05, 2009 1:40 > > > PM > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > Subject: [AquaticLife] questions about Yoyo loaches or > > > other small > > snail eating loaches. > > > > > > > > > > I was considering picking up some yoyo loaches at some > > > point for my > > 125 gallon tank, but I have a concern or > > > two > first. > > > I'm looking for > > a smaller loach that eats smaller > > > pond/pest snails but isn't > > aggressive at the same time, > > > so if there's a better one than yoyo > > loaches please feel > > > free to let me know, LOL. My biggest concern is > > this; Do > > > I need to take all my adult mystery snails out of the tank > > > > > when I add any snail eating loaches, or are my adult size > > > mystery > > snails too big for them to kill and eat? My goal > > > is to get rid of my > > ramshorn snails, a good portion of > > > the MTS, and some small pond > > snails (couldn't find any > > > other name for them when searching for > > them on google). > > > If I put something in the tank I may very well > > forget to > > > take it out, so I haven't tried the lettuce method yet, I > > > > > didn't want to kill my fish by forgetting food in the tank on accident. > > > > > > > > > > Amber > > > > > > > > > > ------------------------------------ > > > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, > Thank You. > > `..><((((>.`..`.><((((> .`.. , .`..><((((> PLEASE, when you REPLY to > > a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if > > CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE > > -> i.e. "new subject (was > > re: old subject)" <- <((((><.`..`.<((((><.`.. , .`..<((((><`.. > > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. > > > > If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of > > unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by clicking on > > "Edit My Membership" on the home page. > > > > Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:aquaticlife-digest%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:aquaticlife-digest%40yahoogroups.com> to receive the digest, > > which includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email > > > > Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:aquaticlife-nomail%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:aquaticlife-nomail%40yahoogroups.com> for the No E-Mail > > option where you will still be able to read messages on the group > > and post replies. > > > > Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:aquaticlife-normal%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:aquaticlife-normal%40yahoogroups.com> to receive individual > > e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > ------------------------------------ > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. > ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , > .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT > that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the > original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: > old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , > .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. > > If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of unsubscribing, > you can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My > Membership" on the home page. > > Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:aquaticlife-digest%40yahoogroups.com> to receive the digest, > which includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email > > Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:aquaticlife-nomail%40yahoogroups.com> for the No E-Mail option > where you will still be able to read messages on the group and post > replies. > > Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:aquaticlife-normal%40yahoogroups.com> to receive individual > e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links > > ------------------------------------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the home page. Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com to receive the digest, which includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com for the No E-Mail option where you will still be able to read messages on the group and post replies. Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com to receive individual e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 44989	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 12/6/2009
Subject: Re: Madagascar lace plant and other Aponogetton's

It seems they might like the leaves or "tasty foliage" as that site says, but it doesn't say anything about the bulb... however other suckermouth fish might like the bulbs since it seems pleco's do. Do you have any suckermouth catfish/loaches in that same tank? Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Amber Berglund Sent: Sunday, December 06, 2009 4:07 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Madagascar lace plant and other Aponogetton's Ahh so after doing a little digging on the net I think I may have found out what happened to my little Aponogeton's. My mystery snails may have eaten them off, LOL. According to this site, Apple snails like the taste of Aponogeton plants. http://aqualandpetsplus.com/Decor%20Aponogeton.htm Amber Amber Berglund wrote: > Okay so about 2-3 months ago my madagascar lace plant melted off and I > think went into hibernation mode. My question is, how long does it > normally hibernate? Or do they sometimes die off too? Everything else > in the plant that is a smaller aponogetton bulb has also melted, not > sure why, but all the other plants have been doing great the last > couple months. The only Aponogetton that didn't melt off the last 2 > months is my ulvaceus and it's huge, like it's always been, perhaps it > doesn't hibernate like other aponogetton's? Does anyone know what > causes them to hibernate? > > Amber ------------------------------------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the home page. Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com to receive the digest, which includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com for the No E-Mail option where you will still be able to read messages on the group and post replies. Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com to receive individual e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 44990	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 12/6/2009
Subject: Re: questions about Yoyo loaches or other small snail eating loaches

Our current fish store/pet store is (I think) called Ward creek something or other. We don't have any others, so those others coming up in google are old ones, Hasting's went out of business several years ago. I don't recognize the other name, could be the pet store that was here about 10 years ago though. Were you looking at Prince of Whales Island? If so it's just a giant island that has many smaller cities on it, they /might/ have a pet store somewhere, but that's way out of my way to get to, and I wouldn't have time for the ferry trip there and back (they don't run on weekends, it's friday and monday only in the winter I think). Amber Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > > Yeah.. I was looking all over that island. > > So.. which store is your LFS? Ketchikan Pet Center or Hasting's Pet > Palace? > Do both of them sell fish? They both showed up in my Google searches. > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right > side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) > > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On > Behalf Of Amber Berglund > Sent: Sunday, December 06, 2009 4:11 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] questions about Yoyo loaches or other small > snail > eating loaches. > > Are you looking at the community of Metlaketla? If so I doubt they have a > pet store, as they come here for the vet and pet needs (on the ferry). > It's an Alaskan Native American Indian reserve by the way ;) LOL. > > Amber > > Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > > > > Well, you can probably rest assured that all of the pet stores are in > > Ketchikan or that other city northwest of you. I Googled that other > > island and can't find a single pet store on the entire island... > > unless they go out of their way to not be listed in any online phone > > book or website. > > > > BTW... > > > > GEAUX SAINTS!!!! 12-0 AFTER A 33-30 OVERTIME WIN OVER THE WASHINGTON > > REDSKINS!! IT WAS A WILD AND CRAZY GAME AND THE SAINTS NEVER LED THE > > GAME ONCE UNTIL THEY FINALLY WON IT IN OVERTIME!!!! > > > > WHO DAT? WHO DAT? WHO DAT SAY DEY GONNA BEAT DEM SAINTS!!! LOL > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>> > (Links to any articles referenced in > > above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels > > and also under Archives by Year, Month) > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On Behalf Of Amber Berglund > > Sent: Sunday, December 06, 2009 3:25 PM > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] questions about Yoyo loaches or other small > > snail eating loaches. > > > > Our island is very isolated, reguardless of whether that other island > > you see has an airport, it's not going to have Alaska Airlines landing > > there unless it's a "major" city. So the landing strips you see are > > either for military small planes, or small personal planes only. > > Honestly I have no intentions of taking my pale white butt over to Met > > and seeing if they have a LFS, I'd probably get mugged by the local > > natives (they don't like strangers in their town, LOL). > > > > Amber > > > > Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > > > > > > Have you ever checked to see if there's an LFS on that other island? > > > I see they also have an airport. How long is the ferry ride there? > > > > > > You might have to take a "Field Of Dreams" attitude... build it and > > > they will come. I know the guy who started SELAS (SouthEast > > > Louisiana Aquarium > > > Society) started it up and made it free in the beginning and then > > > once he had a 100 or so members, he started charging but us first > > > 100 are grand-fathered in for free. Tropical Fish Hobbyist magazine > > > will give you a free classified listing for aquarium societies. Then > > > ask your LFS and any others if you can put up a notice on their > bulletin > board. > > > Don't be afraid to delegate as soon as you get even one other person > > > interested. > > > > > > I've never started an aquarium society but I have started up other > > > clubs and associations. It's not a lot of work and can actually be > > > fun if you don't worry or take things too serious. It does help if > > > someone else has some organizational skills. > > > > > > Definitely start up a forum or yahoo group at the start, once a name > > > is determined so you do not have to try and manage email as that can > > > get tedious. There are ways to start up a free forum like you see on > > > some other sites but I've never tried one so I'm not much help there. > > > Yahoo Group's are much easier IMO but they do not have the ability > > > to have separate forums for different topics like website forums so > > > everybody gets everything in a Yahoo Group, whereas with other > > > forums, someone can just participate in the sections that they like. > > > > > > I'm pretty sure others in the group have participated in starting up > > > aquarium societies so they may be able to help you with the details. > > > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>> > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>>> > > (Links to any articles referenced in > > > above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under > > > Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) > > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On Behalf Of Amber Berglund > > > Sent: Sunday, December 06, 2009 2:28 PM > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] questions about Yoyo loaches or other > > > small snail eating loaches. > > > > > > Well that would be really nice, I can't see my only LFS actually > > > giving out discounts or anything though (normally his fish is very > > > pricey). If he doesn't even buy fish from people (cheap) then I > > > doubt he'd give some away, LOL. But those are all very nice > > > thoughts, will have to pass the word around and see how many people > > > actually want to participate. > > > > > > Amber > > > > > > Deenerz@... <mailto:Deenerz%40aol.com> <mailto:Deenerz%40aol.com> > > <mailto:Deenerz%40aol.com> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > Amber, you should give it a try. > > > > Many small aquarium societies meet in each others home for small > > > > get togethers to swap stories, sell fish, give presentations, or > > workshops. > > > > You can also network with each other about doing group buys. As > > > > difficult as it is for you to get items shipped to you in Alaska a > > > > group buy on products or fish might make it more affordable for > > > > all of you. > > > > > > > > You might also as a group make it more appealing for your local > > > > shop to work with your new aquarium society. > > > > Many of the LFS's in my area work with the aquarium societies and > > > > even donate fish or products to help out. Some even offer discounts. > > > > One even participates in club events and lets us have our Board of > > > > directors meetings in his shop. > > > > > > > > -Mike > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > > From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@... > <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com> > > <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com> > > > <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com> > > > > <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com>> > > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > Sent: Sat, Dec 5, 2009 6:32 pm > > > > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] questions about Yoyo loaches or other > > > > small snail eating loaches. > > > > > > > > > > > > You need to start the SAAS - South Alaska Aquarium Society... or > > > > maybe the KMAS - Ketchikan-Metlakatla Aquarium Society.. or KAIAS > > > > - Ketchikan-Annette Island Aquarium Society. Yeah.. I used Google > > > > Earth to look around to see how close you were to another > > > > city/island up there.. lol.. looks like a nice lil ferry ride > > > > between > > your islands. > > > > Your island looks bigger but Annette Island looks more developed > > > > with cities spread out and roads all over their island. Heck, I > > > > couldn't even find a name for your island. Doing this would enable > > > > all of you gals/guys to stay in touch and be able to sell/swap > > > > fish at monthly or quarterly meetings. Maybe someone else up there > > > > has the wherewithal to start up a small LFS or even just do > > > > something out of their home/garage as a home-based business. Of > > > > course, you all could participate at monthly meetings and > > > > auctions, even having your own little Yahoo Group to stay in touch > > > > so everyone knows what everyone else has for sale or swap and to > make > announcements. > > > > > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>> > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>>> > > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>> > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>>>> > > > (Links to any articles referenced in > > > > above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under > > > > Labels and also under Archives by Year, > > > > Month) > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] > > > > On > > > > Behalf Of Amber Berglund > > > > Sent: Saturday, December 05, 2009 4:49 PM > > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] questions about Yoyo loaches or other > > > > small snail eating loaches. > > > > > > > > My LFS won't buy anything from me, I could give them to him for > > > > free perhaps (yeah right, not doing that). The owner is a jerk, I > > > > don't even shop there when he's working. > > > > > > > > Amber > > > > > > > > Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > > > > > > > > > > You already have two Angelfish in that 55G... right? You have > > > > to be > careful about bioload since most loaches need to be in > > > > shoals of five > or more. > > > > > > > > > > How many times have the Angel's mated and eaten their eggs? > > > > Maybe you > could have a divider ready for next time and > > > > separate the adults from > the eggs as soon as they lay the > > > > eggs... if you want them to live. > > > > > Will your LFS buy Angelfish from you? > > > > > > > > > > Here's what Mongabay says about Suggested Companions for P. > > > > scalare... > > > > > (Loaches - Botia, et al, aren't on the list... Sorry!) > > > > > > > > > > SC: Catfish (Armored, Pimelodids, Doradids, Loricarids), characins > > > > > (Headstanders, hatchetfish, larger schooling tetras), > > > > cichlids > (Angelfish, Discus, Waroo, Acaras, Ram, > > > > Eartheaters), gouramis, > livebearers that can tolerate neutral > water conditions. > > > > > > > > > > Maybe a school of Tetras and a Clown Pleco for additional > > > > algae > control to help the Mystery Snails? Or a pair of pretty > > > > Rams who would > take the other end of the tank for their > > > > breeding area? I think I've > read that it's best to get one > > > > male and several females until he decides which one he wants... > > > > > God, I wish I was a fish! LOL The leftover females could > > > > populate your > 10G tanks as well... or sell them to the LFS. > > > > I'm surprised to see > Gourami's on the list so that leaves you > > > > plenty of options also but > the non-dwarf's get pretty big. > > > > > > > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > > > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>> > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>>> > > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>> > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>>>> > > > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>> > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>>> > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>> > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>>>> > > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>> > > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>>> > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>> > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>>>>> (Links to any articles > > referenced > > > > in > above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically > > > > under Labels > and also under Archives by Year, Month) > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: > > > > AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On Behalf Of > > > > Amber Berglund > Sent: Saturday, December 05, 2009 2:37 PM > > To: > > > > AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] questions about Yoyo loaches or > > > > other small > snail eating loaches. > > > > > > > > > > So in other words they would eat any snail, even my big ones > > > > ;) LOL. > > > > > That's all I needed to know about whether I should get them > > > > for that > tank or not. I'm considering them for the Angelfish > > > > tank since they > still haven't had any babies (keep eating > > > > their eggs, oh well). > > > > Should > > > > > I get semi-aggressive loaches if I put them in that tank? I > > > > suppose > more aggressive ones might hurt the Angel's. > > > > > > > > > > Amber > > > > > > > > > > Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > Well, worse case if you forget to take the food out is > > > > that the > > snails will eat it all and reproduce even more > > > > since most snails are > > opportunistic breeders. That > > > > should be enough to make you remember > > to take it out the > > > > next > > morning. > > > > > > > > > > > > Or, you could tie a string around your finger when you > > > > put the leaf > > in at night and when you wake up in the > > > > morning with your finger > > swollen because you tied the > > > > string too tight, that will also remind > > you about the > > > > leaf of lettuce or spinach. > > > > > > > > > > > > Of course, be careful if your fish eat the spinach as it > > > > could > > result in Popeye! Arrr! Arrr! Or should that be > > > > > > A-gah-gah-gah-gah-gah-gah :-D > > > > > > http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KYK3Fz6pXnA > <http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KYK3Fz6pXnA> > > <http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KYK3Fz6pXnA > <http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KYK3Fz6pXnA>> > > > <http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KYK3Fz6pXnA > <http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KYK3Fz6pXnA> > > <http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KYK3Fz6pXnA > <http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KYK3Fz6pXnA>>> > > > > <http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KYK3Fz6pXnA > <http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KYK3Fz6pXnA> > > <http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KYK3Fz6pXnA > <http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KYK3Fz6pXnA>> > > > <http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KYK3Fz6pXnA > <http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KYK3Fz6pXnA> > > <http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KYK3Fz6pXnA > <http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KYK3Fz6pXnA>>>> > > > > > <http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KYK3Fz6pXnA> > <http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KYK3Fz6pXnA>> > > <http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KYK3Fz6pXnA> > <http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KYK3Fz6pXnA>>> > > > <http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KYK3Fz6pXnA> > <http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KYK3Fz6pXnA>> > > <http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KYK3Fz6pXnA> > <http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KYK3Fz6pXnA>>>> > > > > <http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KYK3Fz6pXnA> > <http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KYK3Fz6pXnA>> > > <http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KYK3Fz6pXnA> > <http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KYK3Fz6pXnA>>> > > > <http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KYK3Fz6pXnA> > <http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KYK3Fz6pXnA>> > > <http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KYK3Fz6pXnA> > <http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KYK3Fz6pXnA>>>>> > > > > > > <http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KYK3Fz6pXnA > <http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KYK3Fz6pXnA> > > <http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KYK3Fz6pXnA > <http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KYK3Fz6pXnA>> > > > <http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KYK3Fz6pXnA > <http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KYK3Fz6pXnA> > > <http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KYK3Fz6pXnA > <http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KYK3Fz6pXnA>>> > > > > <http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KYK3Fz6pXnA > <http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KYK3Fz6pXnA> > > <http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KYK3Fz6pXnA > <http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KYK3Fz6pXnA>> > > > <http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KYK3Fz6pXnA > <http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KYK3Fz6pXnA> > > <http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KYK3Fz6pXnA > <http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KYK3Fz6pXnA>>>> > > > > > <http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KYK3Fz6pXnA>> > <http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KYK3Fz6pXnA>>> > > <http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KYK3Fz6pXnA>> > <http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KYK3Fz6pXnA>>>> > > > <http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KYK3Fz6pXnA>> > <http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KYK3Fz6pXnA>>> > > <http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KYK3Fz6pXnA>> > <http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KYK3Fz6pXnA>>>>> > > > > <http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KYK3Fz6pXnA>> > <http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KYK3Fz6pXnA>>> > > <http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KYK3Fz6pXnA>> > <http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KYK3Fz6pXnA>>>> > > > <http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KYK3Fz6pXnA>> > <http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KYK3Fz6pXnA>>> > > <http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KYK3Fz6pXnA>> > <http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KYK3Fz6pXnA>>>>>> > > > > > > > > > > > > I'm not sure how effective loaches are on MTS since > > > > their shells are > > so hard and they have trap doors. I > > > > don't think they'll discriminate > > against eating your > > > > Mystery Snails, regardless of size. > > > > > > > > > > > > If you get snail eating loaches for the tank, don't plan > > > > on keeping > > snails in that tank any longer. > > > > > > > > > > > > There are also these Assassin Snails, Anentome helena, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > http://forums.loaches.com/viewtopic.php?t=12094&postdays=0&postord > <http://forums.loaches.com/viewtopic.php?t=12094&postdays=0&postord> > > > <http://forums.loaches.com/viewtopic.php?t=12094&postdays=0&postor > <http://forums.loaches.com/viewtopic.php?t=12094&postdays=0&postor> > > d> > > > > > > <http://forums.loaches.com/viewtopic.php?t=12094&postdays=0&postor > <http://forums.loaches.com/viewtopic.php?t=12094&postdays=0&postor> > > > <http://forums.loaches.com/viewtopic.php?t=12094&postdays=0&postor > <http://forums.loaches.com/viewtopic.php?t=12094&postdays=0&postor> > > > > > > d> > > > > er=a > > > > > > > > > > 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<http://forums.loaches.com/viewtopic.php?t=12094&postdays=0&pos> > > <http://forums.loaches.com/viewtopic.php?t=12094&postdays=0&pos > <http://forums.loaches.com/viewtopic.php?t=12094&postdays=0&pos>> > > > > <http://forums.loaches.com/viewtopic.php?t=12094&postdays=0&pos > <http://forums.loaches.com/viewtopic.php?t=12094&postdays=0&pos> > > <http://forums.loaches.com/viewtopic.php?t=12094&postdays=0&pos > <http://forums.loaches.com/viewtopic.php?t=12094&postdays=0&pos>>> > > > > tor > > > > > > > > > > <http://forums.loaches.com/viewtopic.php?t=12094&postdays=0&postor > <http://forums.loaches.com/viewtopic.php?t=12094&postdays=0&postor> > > > <http://forums.loaches.com/viewtopic.php?t=12094&postdays=0&postor > <http://forums.loaches.com/viewtopic.php?t=12094&postdays=0&postor> > > > > > > > > > <http://forums.loaches.com/viewtopic.php?t=12094&postdays=0&postor > <http://forums.loaches.com/viewtopic.php?t=12094&postdays=0&postor> > > > <http://forums.loaches.com/viewtopic.php?t=12094&postdays=0&postor > <http://forums.loaches.com/viewtopic.php?t=12094&postdays=0&postor> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > der= > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > <http://forums.loaches.com/viewtopic.php?t=12094&postdays=0&pos > <http://forums.loaches.com/viewtopic.php?t=12094&postdays=0&pos> > > <http://forums.loaches.com/viewtopic.php?t=12094&postdays=0&pos > <http://forums.loaches.com/viewtopic.php?t=12094&postdays=0&pos>> > > > > <http://forums.loaches.com/viewtopic.php?t=12094&postdays=0&pos > <http://forums.loaches.com/viewtopic.php?t=12094&postdays=0&pos> > > <http://forums.loaches.com/viewtopic.php?t=12094&postdays=0&pos > <http://forums.loaches.com/viewtopic.php?t=12094&postdays=0&pos>>> > > > > tor > > > > > > > > > > <http://forums.loaches.com/viewtopic.php?t=12094&postdays=0&postor > <http://forums.loaches.com/viewtopic.php?t=12094&postdays=0&postor> > > > <http://forums.loaches.com/viewtopic.php?t=12094&postdays=0&postor > <http://forums.loaches.com/viewtopic.php?t=12094&postdays=0&postor> > > > > > > > > > <http://forums.loaches.com/viewtopic.php?t=12094&postdays=0&postor > <http://forums.loaches.com/viewtopic.php?t=12094&postdays=0&postor> > > > <http://forums.loaches.com/viewtopic.php?t=12094&postdays=0&postor > <http://forums.loaches.com/viewtopic.php?t=12094&postdays=0&postor> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > der= > > > > > > > > > > > > asc&sta> rt=0 (five page thread) but they would also > > > > go after your > > Mystery Snails. > > > > > > Of course, you could always move the Assassin Snails to > > > > one of your > > 10G's after they do their thing and then put > > > > your Mystery Snails > > back into the 125G. Supposedly, > > > > Assassin Snails do not breed much > > You couldn't do this > > > > with the YoYo's or any other loaches. On a > > regular > > > > basis, and when you get too many Mystery Snails, throw some > > > > > > into the 10G Assassin Snail tank for them to eat. > > > > > > > > > > > > Check eBay and Aquabid for sellers of these snails. > > > > > > > > > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > > > > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>> > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>>> > > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>> > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>>>> > > > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>> > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>>> > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>> > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>>>> > > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>> > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>>> > > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>> > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>>>>> > > > > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>> > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>>> > > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>> > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>>>> > > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>>> > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>>>> > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>>> > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>>>>> > > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>>> > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>>>> > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>>> > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>>>>>> > > > > > (Links to any articles referenced in > > above reply > > > > are listed on the right side, alphabetically under > > > > > > Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) > > > > > > > > -----Original > > > > Message----- > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On Behalf > > > > Of Amber Berglund > > Sent: Saturday, December 05, 2009 1:40 > > > > PM > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > Subject: [AquaticLife] questions about Yoyo loaches or > > > > other small > > snail eating loaches. > > > > > > > > > > > > I was considering picking up some yoyo loaches at some > > > > point for my > > 125 gallon tank, but I have a concern or > > > > two > > first. > > > > I'm looking for > > a smaller loach that eats smaller > > > > pond/pest snails but isn't > > aggressive at the same time, > > > > so if there's a better one than yoyo > > loaches please feel > > > > free to let me know, LOL. My biggest concern is > > this; Do > > > > I need to take all my adult mystery snails out of the tank > > > > > > when I add any snail eating loaches, or are my adult size > > > > mystery > > snails too big for them to kill and eat? My goal > > > > is to get rid of my > > ramshorn snails, a good portion of > > > > the MTS, and some small pond > > snails (couldn't find any > > > > other name for them when searching for > > them on google). > > > > If I put something in the tank I may very well > > forget to > > > > take it out, so I haven't tried the lettuce method yet, I > > > > > > didn't want to kill my fish by forgetting food in the tank on > accident. > > > > > > > > > > > > Amber > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ------------------------------------ > > > > > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, > > Thank You. > > > `..><((((>.`..`.><((((> .`.. , .`..><((((> PLEASE, when you REPLY to > > > a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if > > > CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE > > > -> i.e. "new subject (was > > > re: old subject)" <- <((((><.`..`.<((((><.`.. , .`..<((((><`.. > > > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. > > > > > > If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of > > > unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by clicking on > > > "Edit My Membership" on the home page. > > > > > > Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:aquaticlife-digest%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:aquaticlife-digest%40yahoogroups.com> > > > <mailto:aquaticlife-digest%40yahoogroups.com> to receive the digest, > > > which includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email > > > > > > Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:aquaticlife-nomail%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:aquaticlife-nomail%40yahoogroups.com> > > > <mailto:aquaticlife-nomail%40yahoogroups.com> for the No E-Mail > > > option where you will still be able to read messages on the group > > > and post replies. > > > > > > Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:aquaticlife-normal%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:aquaticlife-normal%40yahoogroups.com> > > > <mailto:aquaticlife-normal%40yahoogroups.com> to receive individual > > > e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > > > > > ------------------------------------ > > > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, > Thank You. > > ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , > > .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT > > that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the > > original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: > > old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , > > .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. > > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. > > > > If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of unsubscribing, > > you can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My > > Membership" on the home page. > > > > Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:aquaticlife-digest%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:aquaticlife-digest%40yahoogroups.com> to receive the digest, > > which includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email > > > > Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:aquaticlife-nomail%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:aquaticlife-nomail%40yahoogroups.com> for the No E-Mail option > > where you will still be able to read messages on the group and post > > replies. > > > > Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:aquaticlife-normal%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:aquaticlife-normal%40yahoogroups.com> to receive individual > > e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > ------------------------------------ > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. > ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> > PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to > the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the > SUBJECT > LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- > <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. > > If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of unsubscribing, you > can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the > home page. > > Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:aquaticlife-digest%40yahoogroups.com> to receive the digest, which > includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email > > Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:aquaticlife-nomail%40yahoogroups.com> for the No E-Mail option > where > you will still be able to read messages on the group and post replies. > > Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:aquaticlife-normal%40yahoogroups.com> to receive individual > e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 44991	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 12/6/2009
Subject: Re: Madagascar lace plant and other Aponogetton's

Yes, but my bulbs are mostly buried (just the tops sticking out), and they appear whole still. Amber Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > > It seems they might like the leaves or "tasty foliage" as that site says, > but it doesn't say anything about the bulb... however other > suckermouth fish > might like the bulbs since it seems pleco's do. Do you have any > suckermouth > catfish/loaches in that same tank? > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right > side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On > Behalf Of Amber Berglund > Sent: Sunday, December 06, 2009 4:07 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Madagascar lace plant and other Aponogetton's > > Ahh so after doing a little digging on the net I think I may have > found out > what happened to my little Aponogeton's. My mystery snails may have eaten > them off, LOL. > According to this site, Apple snails like the taste of Aponogeton plants. > http://aqualandpetsplus.com/Decor%20Aponogeton.htm > <http://aqualandpetsplus.com/Decor%20Aponogeton.htm> > > Amber > > Amber Berglund wrote: > > Okay so about 2-3 months ago my madagascar lace plant melted off and I > > think went into hibernation mode. My question is, how long does it > > normally hibernate? Or do they sometimes die off too? Everything else > > in the plant that is a smaller aponogetton bulb has also melted, not > > sure why, but all the other plants have been doing great the last > > couple months. The only Aponogetton that didn't melt off the last 2 > > months is my ulvaceus and it's huge, like it's always been, perhaps it > > doesn't hibernate like other aponogetton's? Does anyone know what > > causes them to hibernate? > > > > Amber > > ------------------------------------ > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. > ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> > PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to > the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the > SUBJECT > LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- > <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. > > If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of unsubscribing, you > can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the > home page. > > Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:aquaticlife-digest%40yahoogroups.com> to receive the digest, which > includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email > > Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:aquaticlife-nomail%40yahoogroups.com> for the No E-Mail option > where > you will still be able to read messages on the group and post replies. > > Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:aquaticlife-normal%40yahoogroups.com> to receive individual > e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 44992	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 12/6/2009
Subject: The Armory of Freshwater Aquarium Maintenance Tools

http://www.aquariumbliss.com/aquariums/the-armory-of-freshwater-aquarium-mai ntenance-tools http://tinyurl.com/ye7yqyg The Armory of Freshwater Aquarium Maintenance Tools Dec 4th, 2009 by Aquarium Lover. Good and clean aquariums are the pride of the aquarist. But in order for these proud aquarists to have, sparkling clean fish tanks, they have to do regular maintenance. But doing freshwater aquarium maintenance can be a bit demanding, and so these aquarists have come up with an array of different tools right from the aquarist armory, to ensure that dirt and its minions can never win over the cleanliness of these prime enthusiasts. Gravel Vacuums Specifically called aquarium gravel vacuums, for a more defined naming convention, these machines work exactly like your ordinary vacuum cleaner: they suck off excess dirt in the aquarium that you can't get your hands on, such as excess food and waste materials. Algae Pads/Scraper/Scrubber As the name suggests, they are specifically used to remove the algae from your aquariums, keeping them free of these green monsters. The softer pads are commonly used for acrylic tanks, which are scratched very easily due to their flexible composition. . . . -----------------------<continued at link>--------------------------- \\Steve//

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 44993	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 12/6/2009
Subject: Re: Acid Oceans Leave Fish at More Risk from Predators

I've been suspicious of those types for a long time. One thing that has me wondering about these guys is their tank setup. They claim to have two inputs of different type waters into the experimental tank, and, because they keep the flows equal, they say there is no mixing of the waters so the fish can choose the environment they prefer. I really question that assumption. We all know that water that has a higher concentration of something will seek an equilibrium when places with water absent that substance. I'd like to find a copy of the paper to read the whole thing, rather than judge from a re-write of their conclusions. \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Lenny V. aka GoldLenny Sent: Sunday, December 06, 2009 4:01 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Acid Oceans Leave Fish at More Risk from Predators Now that we know about ClimateGate and how those so-called tree-hugging type scientists were willing to lie about and cover up the real evidence... is there really any kind of tree-hugging type science that can be believed without seriously questioning things and getting full disclosure of their so-called science??? I know I don't trust much of what comes out of tree-hugging type scientists. They have too much of an agenda to try and extort money from governments and big-business, rather than strictly telling the truth. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Steve Szabo Sent: Sunday, December 06, 2009 2:41 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Acid Oceans Leave Fish at More Risk from Predators http://www.oceanleadership.org/2009/acid-oeans-leave-fish-at-more-risk-from- predators/ http://tinyurl.com/ydfdyk3 Acid Oceans Leave Fish at More Risk from Predators Posted by Will Ramos on Wednesday, November 25th, 2009 at 8:55 am Filed under: Discovery, News & Resources Ocean acidification could cause fish to become "fatally attracted" to their predators, according to scientists. (From BBC News) -- A team studying the effects of acidification - caused by dissolved CO2 - on ocean reefs found that it leaves fish unable to "smell danger". Young clownfish that were reared in the acidified water became attracted to rather than repelled by the chemical signals released by predatory fish. The findings were published in the journal Ecology Letters. Danielle Dixson from James Cook University in Queensland, Australia, led the study. She and her colleagues tested orange clown fish larvae that were raised in water with the same slightly alkaline pH as their ocean reef habitat, and those raised in more acidic water. The team released the fish into a "flow chamber" with two water sources flowing in parallel. One source was taken from tanks containing the clown fishes' natural predators and one was drawn from tanks in which non-predatory fish were swimming. . . . --------------------------------<continued at link>-------------------------------- \\Steve// ------------------------------------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. 74/`7.88.><((((:>.74/`7.88.74/`7.8><((((:> 8.74/`7.8. , .74/`7..><((((:> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <:((((><.74/`7.88.74/`7.8<:((((><8.74/`7.8. , .74/`7..<:((((><74/`7.88. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the home page. Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com to receive the digest, which includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com for the No E-Mail option where you will still be able to read messages on the group and post replies. Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com to receive individual e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 44994	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 12/6/2009
Subject: Re: questions about Yoyo loaches or other small snail eating loaches

This is what showed up on one hit to a site called MagicYellow.com, on Google. HASTINGS PET PALACE 907-247-7387 1426 Tongass Ave Ketchikan, AK Zip Code99901 KETCHIKAN PET CENTER 907-225-6053 4 Mi North Tongass Ketchikan, AK Zip Code 99901 Here's what Google Maps, "search nearby" came up with for pet stores in Ketchikan.. well the top three hits at least. Critter Country Pets & Supplies - more info > 2417 Tongass Avenue, Ketchikan, AK - (907) 247-3143 - 1.2 mi NW Ketchikan Pet Center - more info > 97 Eichner Avenue, Ketchikan, AK - (907) 225-6053 - 4.1 mi NW Ward Creek Industrial - more info > 123 Ward Lake Rd, Ketchikan, AK - (907) 247-0825 I sure hope the Alaska Tea Party doesn't locate their Ketchikan office on Tongass Ave. MSNBC/Chris Matthews and the rest of the liberal media would never report any real news any more, as they'd only talk and giggle about tea baggers and Tongass Avenue. LOL Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Amber Berglund Sent: Sunday, December 06, 2009 4:35 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] questions about Yoyo loaches or other small snail eating loaches. Our current fish store/pet store is (I think) called Ward creek something or other. We don't have any others, so those others coming up in google are old ones, Hasting's went out of business several years ago. I don't recognize the other name, could be the pet store that was here about 10 years ago though. Were you looking at Prince of Whales Island? If so it's just a giant island that has many smaller cities on it, they /might/ have a pet store somewhere, but that's way out of my way to get to, and I wouldn't have time for the ferry trip there and back (they don't run on weekends, it's friday and monday only in the winter I think). Amber Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > > Yeah.. I was looking all over that island. > > So.. which store is your LFS? Ketchikan Pet Center or Hasting's Pet > Palace? > Do both of them sell fish? They both showed up in my Google searches. > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> (Links to any articles referenced in > above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels > and also under Archives by Year, Month) > > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On Behalf Of Amber Berglund > Sent: Sunday, December 06, 2009 4:11 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] questions about Yoyo loaches or other small > snail eating loaches. > > Are you looking at the community of Metlaketla? If so I doubt they > have a pet store, as they come here for the vet and pet needs (on the ferry). > It's an Alaskan Native American Indian reserve by the way ;) LOL. > > Amber > > Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > > > > Well, you can probably rest assured that all of the pet stores are > > in Ketchikan or that other city northwest of you. I Googled that > > other island and can't find a single pet store on the entire island... > > unless they go out of their way to not be listed in any online phone > > book or website. > > > > BTW... > > > > GEAUX SAINTS!!!! 12-0 AFTER A 33-30 OVERTIME WIN OVER THE WASHINGTON > > REDSKINS!! IT WAS A WILD AND CRAZY GAME AND THE SAINTS NEVER LED THE > > GAME ONCE UNTIL THEY FINALLY WON IT IN OVERTIME!!!! > > > > WHO DAT? WHO DAT? WHO DAT SAY DEY GONNA BEAT DEM SAINTS!!! LOL > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>> > (Links to any articles referenced in > > above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under > > Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On Behalf Of Amber Berglund > > Sent: Sunday, December 06, 2009 3:25 PM > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] questions about Yoyo loaches or other > > small snail eating loaches. > > > > Our island is very isolated, reguardless of whether that other > > island you see has an airport, it's not going to have Alaska > > Airlines landing there unless it's a "major" city. So the landing > > strips you see are either for military small planes, or small personal planes only. > > Honestly I have no intentions of taking my pale white butt over to > > Met and seeing if they have a LFS, I'd probably get mugged by the > > local natives (they don't like strangers in their town, LOL). > > > > Amber > > > > Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > > > > > > Have you ever checked to see if there's an LFS on that other island? > > > I see they also have an airport. How long is the ferry ride there? > > > > > > You might have to take a "Field Of Dreams" attitude... build it > > > and they will come. I know the guy who started SELAS (SouthEast > > > Louisiana Aquarium > > > Society) started it up and made it free in the beginning and then > > > once he had a 100 or so members, he started charging but us first > > > 100 are grand-fathered in for free. Tropical Fish Hobbyist > > > magazine will give you a free classified listing for aquarium > > > societies. Then ask your LFS and any others if you can put up a > > > notice on their > bulletin > board. > > > Don't be afraid to delegate as soon as you get even one other > > > person interested. > > > > > > I've never started an aquarium society but I have started up other > > > clubs and associations. It's not a lot of work and can actually be > > > fun if you don't worry or take things too serious. It does help if > > > someone else has some organizational skills. > > > > > > Definitely start up a forum or yahoo group at the start, once a > > > name is determined so you do not have to try and manage email as > > > that can get tedious. There are ways to start up a free forum like > > > you see on some other sites but I've never tried one so I'm not much help there. > > > Yahoo Group's are much easier IMO but they do not have the ability > > > to have separate forums for different topics like website forums > > > so everybody gets everything in a Yahoo Group, whereas with other > > > forums, someone can just participate in the sections that they like. > > > > > > I'm pretty sure others in the group have participated in starting > > > up aquarium societies so they may be able to help you with the details. > > > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>> > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>>> > > (Links to any articles referenced in > > > above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under > > > Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) > > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On Behalf Of Amber > > > Berglund > > > Sent: Sunday, December 06, 2009 2:28 PM > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] questions about Yoyo loaches or other > > > small snail eating loaches. > > > > > > Well that would be really nice, I can't see my only LFS actually > > > giving out discounts or anything though (normally his fish is very > > > pricey). If he doesn't even buy fish from people (cheap) then I > > > doubt he'd give some away, LOL. But those are all very nice > > > thoughts, will have to pass the word around and see how many > > > people actually want to participate. > > > > > > Amber > > > > > > Deenerz@... <mailto:Deenerz%40aol.com> > > > <mailto:Deenerz%40aol.com> > > <mailto:Deenerz%40aol.com> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > Amber, you should give it a try. > > > > Many small aquarium societies meet in each others home for small > > > > get togethers to swap stories, sell fish, give presentations, or > > workshops. > > > > You can also network with each other about doing group buys. As > > > > difficult as it is for you to get items shipped to you in Alaska > > > > a group buy on products or fish might make it more affordable > > > > for all of you. > > > > > > > > You might also as a group make it more appealing for your local > > > > shop to work with your new aquarium society. > > > > Many of the LFS's in my area work with the aquarium societies > > > > and even donate fish or products to help out. Some even offer discounts. > > > > One even participates in club events and lets us have our Board > > > > of directors meetings in his shop. > > > > > > > > -Mike > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > > From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@... > <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com> > > <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com> > > > <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com> > > > > <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com>> > > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > Sent: Sat, Dec 5, 2009 6:32 pm > > > > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] questions about Yoyo loaches or other > > > > small snail eating loaches. > > > > > > > > > > > > You need to start the SAAS - South Alaska Aquarium Society... or > > > > maybe the KMAS - Ketchikan-Metlakatla Aquarium Society.. or > > > > KAIAS > > > > - Ketchikan-Annette Island Aquarium Society. Yeah.. I used > > > > Google Earth to look around to see how close you were to another > > > > city/island up there.. lol.. looks like a nice lil ferry ride > > > > between > > your islands. > > > > Your island looks bigger but Annette Island looks more developed > > > > with cities spread out and roads all over their island. Heck, I > > > > couldn't even find a name for your island. Doing this would > > > > enable all of you gals/guys to stay in touch and be able to > > > > sell/swap fish at monthly or quarterly meetings. Maybe someone > > > > else up there has the wherewithal to start up a small LFS or > > > > even just do something out of their home/garage as a home-based > > > > business. Of course, you all could participate at monthly > > > > meetings and auctions, even having your own little Yahoo Group > > > > to stay in touch so everyone knows what everyone else has for > > > > sale or swap and to > make > announcements. > > > > > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>> > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>>> > > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>> > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>>>> > > > (Links to any articles referenced in > > > > above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under > > > > Labels and also under Archives by Year, > > > > Month) > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] > > > > On > > > > Behalf Of Amber Berglund > > > > Sent: Saturday, December 05, 2009 4:49 PM > > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] questions about Yoyo loaches or other > > > > small snail eating loaches. > > > > > > > > My LFS won't buy anything from me, I could give them to him for > > > > free perhaps (yeah right, not doing that). The owner is a jerk, > > > > I don't even shop there when he's working. > > > > > > > > Amber > > > > > > > > Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > > > > > > > > > > You already have two Angelfish in that 55G... right? You > > > > have to be > careful about bioload since most loaches need to > > > > be in shoals of five > or more. > > > > > > > > > > How many times have the Angel's mated and eaten their eggs? > > > > Maybe you > could have a divider ready for next time and > > > > separate the adults from > the eggs as soon as they lay the > > > > eggs... if you want them to live. > > > > > Will your LFS buy Angelfish from you? > > > > > > > > > > Here's what Mongabay says about Suggested Companions for P. > > > > scalare... > > > > > (Loaches - Botia, et al, aren't on the list... Sorry!) > > > > > > > > > > SC: Catfish (Armored, Pimelodids, Doradids, Loricarids), > > > > characins > (Headstanders, hatchetfish, larger schooling > > > > tetras), cichlids > (Angelfish, Discus, Waroo, Acaras, Ram, > > > > Eartheaters), gouramis, > livebearers that can tolerate > > > > neutral > water conditions. > > > > > > > > > > Maybe a school of Tetras and a Clown Pleco for additional > > > > algae > control to help the Mystery Snails? Or a pair of > > > > pretty Rams who would > take the other end of the tank for > > > > their breeding area? I think I've > read that it's best to > > > > get one male and several females until he decides which one he wants... > > > > > God, I wish I was a fish! LOL The leftover females could > > > > populate your > 10G tanks as well... or sell them to the LFS. > > > > I'm surprised to see > Gourami's on the list so that leaves > > > > you plenty of options also but > the non-dwarf's get pretty big. > > > > > > > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > > > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 44995	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 12/6/2009
Subject: Re: questions about Yoyo loaches or other small snail eating loaches

Ketchikan pet center is our vet clinic, that's it. ward creek industrial is our only pet store, any other hits are very old and no longer current info (long gone out of business years ago). Amber Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > > This is what showed up on one hit to a site called MagicYellow.com, on > Google. > > HASTINGS PET PALACE 907-247-7387 > 1426 Tongass Ave Ketchikan, AK Zip Code99901 > > KETCHIKAN PET CENTER 907-225-6053 > 4 Mi North Tongass Ketchikan, AK Zip Code 99901 > > Here's what Google Maps, "search nearby" came up with for pet stores in > Ketchikan.. well the top three hits at least. > > Critter Country Pets & Supplies - more info > > 2417 Tongass Avenue, Ketchikan, AK - (907) 247-3143 - 1.2 mi NW > > Ketchikan Pet Center - more info > > 97 Eichner Avenue, Ketchikan, AK - (907) 225-6053 - 4.1 mi NW > > Ward Creek Industrial - more info > > 123 Ward Lake Rd, Ketchikan, AK - (907) 247-0825 > > I sure hope the Alaska Tea Party doesn't locate their Ketchikan office on > Tongass Ave. MSNBC/Chris Matthews and the rest of the liberal media would > never report any real news any more, as they'd only talk and giggle about > tea baggers and Tongass Avenue. LOL > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right > side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On > Behalf Of Amber Berglund > Sent: Sunday, December 06, 2009 4:35 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] questions about Yoyo loaches or other small > snail > eating loaches. > > Our current fish store/pet store is (I think) called Ward creek > something or > other. We don't have any others, so those others coming up in google > are old > ones, Hasting's went out of business several years ago. I don't recognize > the other name, could be the pet store that was here about 10 years ago > though. > > Were you looking at Prince of Whales Island? If so it's just a giant > island > that has many smaller cities on it, they /might/ have a pet store > somewhere, > but that's way out of my way to get to, and I wouldn't have time for the > ferry trip there and back (they don't run on weekends, it's friday and > monday only in the winter I think). > > Amber > > Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > > > > Yeah.. I was looking all over that island. > > > > So.. which store is your LFS? Ketchikan Pet Center or Hasting's Pet > > Palace? > > Do both of them sell fish? They both showed up in my Google searches. > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>> > (Links to any articles referenced in > > above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels > > and also under Archives by Year, Month) > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On Behalf Of Amber Berglund > > Sent: Sunday, December 06, 2009 4:11 PM > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] questions about Yoyo loaches or other small > > snail eating loaches. > > > > Are you looking at the community of Metlaketla? If so I doubt they > > have a pet store, as they come here for the vet and pet needs (on the > ferry). > > It's an Alaskan Native American Indian reserve by the way ;) LOL. > > > > Amber > > > > Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > > > > > > Well, you can probably rest assured that all of the pet stores are > > > in Ketchikan or that other city northwest of you. I Googled that > > > other island and can't find a single pet store on the entire island... > > > unless they go out of their way to not be listed in any online phone > > > book or website. > > > > > > BTW... > > > > > > GEAUX SAINTS!!!! 12-0 AFTER A 33-30 OVERTIME WIN OVER THE WASHINGTON > > > REDSKINS!! IT WAS A WILD AND CRAZY GAME AND THE SAINTS NEVER LED THE > > > GAME ONCE UNTIL THEY FINALLY WON IT IN OVERTIME!!!! > > > > > > WHO DAT? WHO DAT? WHO DAT SAY DEY GONNA BEAT DEM SAINTS!!! LOL > > > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>> > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>>> > > (Links to any articles referenced in > > > above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under > > > Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On Behalf Of Amber Berglund > > > Sent: Sunday, December 06, 2009 3:25 PM > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] questions about Yoyo loaches or other > > > small snail eating loaches. > > > > > > Our island is very isolated, reguardless of whether that other > > > island you see has an airport, it's not going to have Alaska > > > Airlines landing there unless it's a "major" city. So the landing > > > strips you see are either for military small planes, or small personal > planes only. > > > Honestly I have no intentions of taking my pale white butt over to > > > Met and seeing if they have a LFS, I'd probably get mugged by the > > > local natives (they don't like strangers in their town, LOL). > > > > > > Amber > > > > > > Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > > > > > > > > Have you ever checked to see if there's an LFS on that other island? > > > > I see they also have an airport. How long is the ferry ride there? > > > > > > > > You might have to take a "Field Of Dreams" attitude... build it > > > > and they will come. I know the guy who started SELAS (SouthEast > > > > Louisiana Aquarium > > > > Society) started it up and made it free in the beginning and then > > > > once he had a 100 or so members, he started charging but us first > > > > 100 are grand-fathered in for free. Tropical Fish Hobbyist > > > > magazine will give you a free classified listing for aquarium > > > > societies. Then ask your LFS and any others if you can put up a > > > > notice on their > > bulletin > > board. > > > > Don't be afraid to delegate as soon as you get even one other > > > > person interested. > > > > > > > > I've never started an aquarium society but I have started up other > > > > clubs and associations. It's not a lot of work and can actually be > > > > fun if you don't worry or take things too serious. It does help if > > > > someone else has some organizational skills. > > > > > > > > Definitely start up a forum or yahoo group at the start, once a > > > > name is determined so you do not have to try and manage email as > > > > that can get tedious. There are ways to start up a free forum like > > > > you see on some other sites but I've never tried one so I'm not much > help there. > > > > Yahoo Group's are much easier IMO but they do not have the ability > > > > to have separate forums for different topics like website forums > > > > so everybody gets everything in a Yahoo Group, whereas with other > > > > forums, someone can just participate in the sections that they like. > > > > > > > > I'm pretty sure others in the group have participated in starting > > > > up aquarium societies so they may be able to help you with the > details. > > > > > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>> > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>>> > > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>> > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>>>> > > > (Links to any articles referenced in > > > > above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under > > > > Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) > > > > > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On Behalf Of Amber > > > > Berglund > > > > Sent: Sunday, December 06, 2009 2:28 PM > > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] questions about Yoyo loaches or other > > > > small snail eating loaches. > > > > > > > > Well that would be really nice, I can't see my only LFS actually > > > > giving out discounts or anything though (normally his fish is very > > > > pricey). If he doesn't even buy fish from people (cheap) then I > > > > doubt he'd give some away, LOL. But those are all very nice > > > > thoughts, will have to pass the word around and see how many > > > > people actually want to participate. > > > > > > > > Amber > > > > > > > > Deenerz@... <mailto:Deenerz%40aol.com> > <mailto:Deenerz%40aol.com> > > > > <mailto:Deenerz%40aol.com> > > > <mailto:Deenerz%40aol.com> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Amber, you should give it a try. > > > > > Many small aquarium societies meet in each others home for small > > > > > get togethers to swap stories, sell fish, give presentations, or > > > workshops. > > > > > You can also network with each other about doing group buys. As > > > > > difficult as it is for you to get items shipped to you in Alaska > > > > > a group buy on products or fish might make it more affordable > > > > > for all of you. > > > > > > > > > > You might also as a group make it more appealing for your local > > > > > shop to work with your new aquarium society. > > > > > Many of the LFS's in my area work with the aquarium societies > > > > > and even donate fish or products to help out. Some even offer > discounts. > > > > > One even participates in club events and lets us have our Board > > > > > of directors meetings in his shop. > > > > > > > > > > -Mike > > > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > > > From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@... > <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com> > > <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com> > > > <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com> > > > > <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com> > > > > > <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com>> > > > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > Sent: Sat, Dec 5, 2009 6:32 pm > > > > > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] questions about Yoyo loaches or other > > > > > small snail eating loaches. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > You need to start the SAAS - South Alaska Aquarium Society... or > > > > > maybe the KMAS - Ketchikan-Metlakatla Aquarium Society.. or > > > > > KAIAS > > > > > - Ketchikan-Annette Island Aquarium Society. Yeah.. I used > > > > > Google Earth to look around to see how close you were to another > > > > > city/island up there.. lol.. looks like a nice lil ferry ride > > > > > between > > > your islands. > > > > > Your island looks bigger but Annette Island looks more developed > > > > > with cities spread out and roads all over their island. Heck, I > > > > > couldn't even find a name for your island. Doing this would > > > > > enable all of you gals/guys to stay in touch and be able to > > > > > sell/swap fish at monthly or quarterly meetings. Maybe someone > > > > > else up there has the wherewithal to start up a small LFS or > > > > > even just do something out of their home/garage as a home-based > > > > > business. Of course, you all could participate at monthly > > > > > meetings and auctions, even having your own little Yahoo Group > > > > > to stay in touch so everyone knows what everyone else has for > > > > > sale or swap and to > > make > > announcements. > > > > > > > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > > > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>> > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>>> > > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>> > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>>>> > > > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>> > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>>> > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>> > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>>>>> > > > > (Links to any articles referenced in > > > > > above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under > > > > > Labels and also under Archives by Year, > > > > > Month) > > > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] > > > > > On > > > > > Behalf Of Amber Berglund > > > > > Sent: Saturday, December 05, 2009 4:49 PM > > > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] questions about Yoyo loaches or other > > > > > small snail eating loaches. > > > > > > > > > > My LFS won't buy anything from me, I could give them to him for > > > > > free perhaps (yeah right, not doing that). The owner is a jerk, > > > > > I don't even shop there when he's working. > > > > > > > > > > Amber > > > > > > > > > > Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > You already have two Angelfish in that 55G... right? You > > > > > have to be > careful about bioload since most loaches need to > > > > > be in shoals of five > or more. > > > > > > > > > > > > How many times have the Angel's mated and eaten their eggs? > > > > > Maybe you > could have a divider ready for next time and > > > > > separate the adults from > the eggs as soon as they lay the > > > > > eggs... if you want them to live. > > > > > > Will your LFS buy Angelfish from you? > > > > > > > > > > > > Here's what Mongabay says about Suggested Companions for P. > > > > > scalare... > > > > > > (Loaches - Botia, et al, aren't on the list... Sorry!) > > > > > > > > > > > > SC: Catfish (Armored, Pimelodids, Doradids, Loricarids), > > > > > characins > (Headstanders, hatchetfish, larger schooling > > > > > tetras), cichlids > (Angelfish, Discus, Waroo, Acaras, Ram, > > > > > Eartheaters), gouramis, > livebearers that can tolerate > > > > > neutral > > water conditions. > > > > > > > > > > > > Maybe a school of Tetras and a Clown Pleco for additional > > > > > algae > control to help the Mystery Snails? Or a pair of > > > > > pretty Rams who would > take the other end of the tank for > > > > > their breeding area? I think I've > read that it's best to > > > > > get one male and several females until he decides which one he > wants... > > > > > > God, I wish I was a fish! LOL The leftover females could > > > > > populate your > 10G tanks as well... or sell them to the LFS. > > > > > I'm surprised to see > Gourami's on the list so that leaves > > > > > you plenty of options also but > the non-dwarf's get pretty > big. > > > > > > > > > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > > > > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 44996	From: Menagerie_Manager	Date: 12/6/2009
Subject: Re: 5 fish species beginners make the mistake of buying.

Hey, they forgot goldfish! DebR and the Three Goldfish (CB, Lucille, and Raven) ----- Original Message ----- From: "Steve Szabo" <steve@...> http://articleproman.com/2009/12/5-fish-species-beginners-make-the-mistake-o f-buying/ http://tinyurl.com/yzvmwvr 5 fish species beginners make the mistake of buying. 04.12.2009 | Author: rokebahmed | Posted in Finance Below you will find info on fish species that beginners often buy but that are unsuitable for most beginners aquarists. There are many reasons why these fish are commonly bought by beginners even though they truly are not suitable for this including but not limited to bad advice in the fish store, lack of knowledge or simply because the fish looks good in the store. A few of the fish I mention in this article make great aquarium fish for more advanced aquarists but are not suited for beginners. Some species are not suitable pet fish period and you should never ever buy these species. . . . ---------------------------<continued at link>----------------------------

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 44997	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 12/6/2009
Subject: Re: 5 fish species beginners make the mistake of buying.

I did take issue with the neon tetras. Young ones are very sensitive to water quality, older ones will do better in water that may not be perfect. That distinction should have been made. Beside goldfish there are many others that may have been included in that list. Mollys come immediately to mind. Angelfish are another, and many cichlids should be kept out of the hands of beginners for various reasons. \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Menagerie_Manager Sent: Sunday, December 06, 2009 7:04 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] 5 fish species beginners make the mistake of buying. Hey, they forgot goldfish! DebR and the Three Goldfish (CB, Lucille, and Raven) ----- Original Message ----- From: "Steve Szabo" <steve@...> http://articleproman.com/2009/12/5-fish-species-beginners-make-the-mistake-o f-buying/ http://tinyurl.com/yzvmwvr 5 fish species beginners make the mistake of buying. 04.12.2009 | Author: rokebahmed | Posted in Finance Below you will find info on fish species that beginners often buy but that are unsuitable for most beginners aquarists. There are many reasons why these fish are commonly bought by beginners even though they truly are not suitable for this including but not limited to bad advice in the fish store, lack of knowledge or simply because the fish looks good in the store. A few of the fish I mention in this article make great aquarium fish for more advanced aquarists but are not suited for beginners. Some species are not suitable pet fish period and you should never ever buy these species. . . . ---------------------------<continued at link>----------------------------

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 44998	From: Donna Ransome	Date: 12/6/2009
Subject: Re: 5 fish species beginners make the mistake of buying.

Yes, the stores love to sell Auratus and Kenyi, LOL. _____ From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Steve Szabo Sent: Sunday, December 06, 2009 7:51 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] 5 fish species beginners make the mistake of buying. I did take issue with the neon tetras. Young ones are very sensitive to water quality, older ones will do better in water that may not be perfect. That distinction should have been made. Beside goldfish there are many others that may have been included in that list. Mollys come immediately to mind. Angelfish are another, and many cichlids should be kept out of the hands of beginners for various reasons. \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Menagerie_Manager Sent: Sunday, December 06, 2009 7:04 PM To: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] 5 fish species beginners make the mistake of buying. Hey, they forgot goldfish! DebR and the Three Goldfish (CB, Lucille, and Raven) ----- Original Message ----- From: "Steve Szabo" <steve@familyszabo. <mailto:steve%40familyszabo.com> com> http://articleproma <http://articleproman.com/2009/12/5-fish-species-beginners-make-the-mistake- o> n.com/2009/12/5-fish-species-beginners-make-the-mistake-o f-buying/ http://tinyurl. <http://tinyurl.com/yzvmwvr> com/yzvmwvr 5 fish species beginners make the mistake of buying. 04.12.2009 | Author: rokebahmed | Posted in Finance Below you will find info on fish species that beginners often buy but that are unsuitable for most beginners aquarists. There are many reasons why these fish are commonly bought by beginners even though they truly are not suitable for this including but not limited to bad advice in the fish store, lack of knowledge or simply because the fish looks good in the store. A few of the fish I mention in this article make great aquarium fish for more advanced aquarists but are not suited for beginners. Some species are not suitable pet fish period and you should never ever buy these species. . . . ---------------------------<continued at link>---------------------------- [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 44999	From: harry perry	Date: 12/6/2009
Subject: Re: Madagascar lace plant and other Aponogetton's/Amber

Can't you find some easy challenges?. Like everything else in this hobby you ask 100 people you'll get a 100 different ideas. Here's another. http://www.grandvalleyaquariumclub.org/articles_plants_aponmad.htm I've also read that the bloom stalk should be trimmed before the flower opens. My experience, I wrapped the bulb in sterilized peat the plant took off. It sent a bloom stalk out of the tank. I propped up the cover. Then it died back. I think the bulb eventually rotted I had buried it in the gravel. This challenge is going to take some research. Some folks are taking this plant out of the tank to let it rest.  Good Luck Harry --- On Sun, 12/6/09, Amber Berglund <arberglund@...> wrote: From: Amber Berglund <arberglund@...> Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Madagascar lace plant and other Aponogetton's To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Date: Sunday, December 6, 2009, 5:24 PM Thanks, good to know, so now I need to know why my crispus died off (or is going dormant). My temps have not been lowered so they shouldn't be going dormant. Well the madagascar lace shouldn't be at least, so it must have died off (used all it's reserves). Perhaps the snails at the bolvinius and crispus aponogeton's, they were doing fine until about 2 months ago or so. I didn't add any fish or change anything (besides the water and dirty filters, lol). Amber Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > > Have you read this thread on TheKrib.com? > > http://www.thekrib.com/Plants/Plants/madagascar.html > <http://www.thekrib.com/Plants/Plants/madagascar.html> > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right > side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On > Behalf Of Amber Berglund > Sent: Sunday, December 06, 2009 4:04 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Subject: [AquaticLife] Madagascar lace plant and other Aponogetton's > > Okay so about 2-3 months ago my madagascar lace plant melted off and I > think > went into hibernation mode. My question is, how long does it normally > hibernate? Or do they sometimes die off too? Everything else in the plant > that is a smaller aponogetton bulb has also melted, not sure why, but all > the other plants have been doing great the last couple months. The only > Aponogetton that didn't melt off the last 2 months is my ulvaceus and it's > huge, like it's always been, perhaps it doesn't hibernate like other > aponogetton's? Does anyone know what causes them to hibernate? > > Amber > > ------------------------------------ > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. > ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> > PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to > the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the > SUBJECT > LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- > <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. > > If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of unsubscribing, you > can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the > home page. > > Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:aquaticlife-digest%40yahoogroups.com> to receive the digest, which > includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email > > Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:aquaticlife-nomail%40yahoogroups.com> for the No E-Mail option > where > you will still be able to read messages on the group and post replies. > > Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:aquaticlife-normal%40yahoogroups.com> to receive individual > e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links > > ------------------------------------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the home page.  Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com to receive the digest, which includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com for the No E-Mail option where you will still be able to read messages on the group and post replies. Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com to receive individual e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 45000	From: harry perry	Date: 12/6/2009
Subject: O.K. a new challenge

I have a red tiger lotus. Any ideas on it's care?. I know it's a high light plant. The bulb died back and now has been dormant for a while. It's not rotted so I'm hoping I can bring it back. Harry [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 45001	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 12/6/2009
Subject: Re: O.K. a new challenge

Do you fertilize your tiger lotus? I've heard/read on sites that they need more nutrients than other plants do to really grow fast. If they have low nutrients they are very slow growers. Amber harry perry wrote: > > I have a red tiger lotus. Any ideas on it's care?. I know it's a high > light plant. The bulb died back and now has been dormant for a while. > It's not rotted so I'm hoping I can bring it back. > > Harry > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 45002	From: harry perry	Date: 12/6/2009
Subject: Re: O.K. a new challenge

Right now it's just a bulb. It seems to be in tact but not producing leaves. I'll try some fertilizer to see what happens. Harry --- On Sun, 12/6/09, Amber Berglund <arberglund@...> wrote: From: Amber Berglund <arberglund@...> Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] O.K. a new challenge To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Date: Sunday, December 6, 2009, 10:23 PM Do you fertilize your tiger lotus? I've heard/read on sites that they need more nutrients than other plants do to really grow fast. If they have low nutrients they are very slow growers. Amber harry perry wrote: > > I have a red tiger lotus. Any ideas on it's care?. I know it's a high > light plant. The bulb died back and now has been dormant for a while. > It's not rotted so I'm hoping I can bring it back. > > Harry > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > ------------------------------------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the home page.  Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com to receive the digest, which includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com for the No E-Mail option where you will still be able to read messages on the group and post replies. Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com to receive individual e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 45003	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 12/6/2009
Subject: Re: O.K. a new challenge

I have the flourish tabs myself for my lotus and dwarf lily. You can also use the Jobe's tomato fertilizer tabs (you insert it into the dirt near the bulb so it can absorb the nutrients through the gravel/dirt). My lotus and dwarf lily definitely produce more leaves when I don't forget their 3 month fertilizer tab ;) LOL. Amber harry perry wrote: > > Right now it's just a bulb. It seems to be in tact but not producing > leaves. > > I'll try some fertilizer to see what happens. > > Harry > > --- On Sun, 12/6/09, Amber Berglund <arberglund@... > <mailto:arberglund%40gmail.com>> wrote: > > From: Amber Berglund <arberglund@... > <mailto:arberglund%40gmail.com>> > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] O.K. a new challenge > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Date: Sunday, December 6, 2009, 10:23 PM > > Do you fertilize your tiger lotus? I've heard/read on sites that they > need more nutrients than other plants do to really grow fast. If they > have low nutrients they are very slow growers. > > Amber > > harry perry wrote: > > > > I have a red tiger lotus. Any ideas on it's care?. I know it's a high > > light plant. The bulb died back and now has been dormant for a while. > > It's not rotted so I'm hoping I can bring it back. > > > > Harry > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > > > ------------------------------------ > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. > ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> > PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT > important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message > MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- > <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. > > If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of unsubscribing, > you can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My > Membership" on the home page. > > Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:aquaticlife-digest%40yahoogroups.com> to receive the digest, > which includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email > > Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:aquaticlife-nomail%40yahoogroups.com> for the No E-Mail option > where you will still be able to read messages on the group and post > replies. > > Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:aquaticlife-normal%40yahoogroups.com> to receive individual > e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 45004	From: harry perry	Date: 12/6/2009
Subject: Re: O.K. a new challenge/Amber

I just took the bulb out of the tank. It has a red "sliver" about 1/8" long coming out of the bulb. I put it back and only half submerged the bulb in the gravel. Broke a plant spike in half (Jobes) and stuck it on two sides of the bulb and turned the water temp up to 80. This is a plant grow out tank no critters except some snails of course. Harry --- On Sun, 12/6/09, Amber Berglund <arberglund@...> wrote: From: Amber Berglund <arberglund@...> Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] O.K. a new challenge To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Date: Sunday, December 6, 2009, 11:18 PM I have the flourish tabs myself for my lotus and dwarf lily. You can also use the Jobe's tomato fertilizer tabs (you insert it into the dirt near the bulb so it can absorb the nutrients through the gravel/dirt). My lotus and dwarf lily definitely produce more leaves when I don't forget their 3 month fertilizer tab ;) LOL. Amber harry perry wrote: > > Right now it's just a bulb. It seems to be in tact but not producing > leaves. > > I'll try some fertilizer to see what happens. > > Harry > > --- On Sun, 12/6/09, Amber Berglund <arberglund@... > <mailto:arberglund%40gmail.com>> wrote: > > From: Amber Berglund <arberglund@... > <mailto:arberglund%40gmail.com>> > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] O.K. a new challenge > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Date: Sunday, December 6, 2009, 10:23 PM > > Do you fertilize your tiger lotus? I've heard/read on sites that they > need more nutrients than other plants do to really grow fast. If they > have low nutrients they are very slow growers. > > Amber > > harry perry wrote: > > > > I have a red tiger lotus. Any ideas on it's care?. I know it's a high > > light plant. The bulb died back and now has been dormant for a while. > > It's not rotted so I'm hoping I can bring it back. > > > > Harry > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > > > ------------------------------------ > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. > ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> > PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT > important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message > MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- > <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. > > If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of unsubscribing, > you can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My > Membership" on the home page. > > Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:aquaticlife-digest%40yahoogroups.com> to receive the digest, > which includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email > > Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:aquaticlife-nomail%40yahoogroups.com> for the No E-Mail option > where you will still be able to read messages on the group and post > replies. > > Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:aquaticlife-normal%40yahoogroups.com> to receive individual > e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > ------------------------------------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the home page.  Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com to receive the digest, which includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com for the No E-Mail option where you will still be able to read messages on the group and post replies. Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com to receive individual e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 45005	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 12/6/2009
Subject: Re: O.K. a new challenge

TheKrib.com, as usual, has some interesting posts that make up an "article". http://www.thekrib.com/Plants/Plants/Nymphaea.html Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Amber Berglund Sent: Sunday, December 06, 2009 10:19 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] O.K. a new challenge I have the flourish tabs myself for my lotus and dwarf lily. You can also use the Jobe's tomato fertilizer tabs (you insert it into the dirt near the bulb so it can absorb the nutrients through the gravel/dirt). My lotus and dwarf lily definitely produce more leaves when I don't forget their 3 month fertilizer tab ;) LOL. Amber harry perry wrote: > > Right now it's just a bulb. It seems to be in tact but not producing > leaves. > > I'll try some fertilizer to see what happens. > > Harry > > --- On Sun, 12/6/09, Amber Berglund <arberglund@... > <mailto:arberglund%40gmail.com>> wrote: > > From: Amber Berglund <arberglund@... > <mailto:arberglund%40gmail.com>> > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] O.K. a new challenge > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Date: Sunday, December 6, 2009, 10:23 PM > > Do you fertilize your tiger lotus? I've heard/read on sites that they > need more nutrients than other plants do to really grow fast. If they > have low nutrients they are very slow growers. > > Amber > > harry perry wrote: > > > > I have a red tiger lotus. Any ideas on it's care?. I know it's a > > high light plant. The bulb died back and now has been dormant for a while. > > It's not rotted so I'm hoping I can bring it back. > > > > Harry

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 45006	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 12/7/2009
Subject: Re: The Armory of Freshwater Aquarium Maintenance Tools

This only mentions a pH testing kit... which is going to cost around $5.00 or so. An entire Master Test Kit can be had for around $15.00 at Walmart.com, which is a much better suggestion/choice. I left this comment on the blog but I'm not sure if they'll moderate it or not. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Steve Szabo Sent: Sunday, December 06, 2009 4:44 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] The Armory of Freshwater Aquarium Maintenance Tools http://www.aquariumbliss.com/aquariums/the-armory-of-freshwater-aquarium-mai ntenance-tools http://tinyurl.com/ye7yqyg The Armory of Freshwater Aquarium Maintenance Tools Dec 4th, 2009 by Aquarium Lover. Good and clean aquariums are the pride of the aquarist. But in order for these proud aquarists to have, sparkling clean fish tanks, they have to do regular maintenance. But doing freshwater aquarium maintenance can be a bit demanding, and so these aquarists have come up with an array of different tools right from the aquarist armory, to ensure that dirt and its minions can never win over the cleanliness of these prime enthusiasts. Gravel Vacuums Specifically called aquarium gravel vacuums, for a more defined naming convention, these machines work exactly like your ordinary vacuum cleaner: they suck off excess dirt in the aquarium that you can't get your hands on, such as excess food and waste materials. Algae Pads/Scraper/Scrubber As the name suggests, they are specifically used to remove the algae from your aquariums, keeping them free of these green monsters. The softer pads are commonly used for acrylic tanks, which are scratched very easily due to their flexible composition. . . . -----------------------<continued at link>--------------------------- \\Steve//

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 45007	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 12/7/2009
Subject: Cyanobacteria

Okay after doing another search I can't find any more of the cyanobacteria that I saw last month. Is it possible for it to go away on it's own with gravel and water cleanings? I haven't lost any more snails since the one last weekend, and the ones I have left are now laying eggs, so they can't be that bad off, I don't think they lay eggs if they don't think the babies will survive (I think I read that on applesnail.net). The ones in the 55 gallon have not laid eggs yet, but there are about 4 egg batches around the sides of the hood of the 125 gallon tank. I added another powerhead to the tank, perhaps they like the increased water flow? I was planning on taking the HOB filter off the side since I added a powerhead inside the tank (it's rated 600 gph, and the HOB is 400 gph, so it's an improvement even if I remove the HOB). Should I still dose with erythromyacin if I can't find any signs of cyanobacteria left in the tank? Amber

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 45008	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 12/7/2009
Subject: Re: Cyanobacteria

No use using an antibiotic if there is no visible problem. Even if there was just a little Cyanobacteria on the glass, I would just scrape it off rather than treat an entire tank with an antibiotic. Over using or excessive use of antibiotics leads to resistant strains of bacteria. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Amber Berglund Sent: Monday, December 07, 2009 1:31 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Cyanobacteria Okay after doing another search I can't find any more of the cyanobacteria that I saw last month. Is it possible for it to go away on it's own with gravel and water cleanings? I haven't lost any more snails since the one last weekend, and the ones I have left are now laying eggs, so they can't be that bad off, I don't think they lay eggs if they don't think the babies will survive (I think I read that on applesnail.net). The ones in the 55 gallon have not laid eggs yet, but there are about 4 egg batches around the sides of the hood of the 125 gallon tank. I added another powerhead to the tank, perhaps they like the increased water flow? I was planning on taking the HOB filter off the side since I added a powerhead inside the tank (it's rated 600 gph, and the HOB is 400 gph, so it's an improvement even if I remove the HOB). Should I still dose with erythromyacin if I can't find any signs of cyanobacteria left in the tank? Amber

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 45009	From: Dora Smith	Date: 12/7/2009
Subject: Re: Cyanobacteria

The snails ate it? LOL! Yours, Dora Smith Austin, TX tiggernut24@... ----- Original Message ----- From: "Amber Berglund" <arberglund@...> To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Monday, December 07, 2009 1:30 PM Subject: [AquaticLife] Cyanobacteria Okay after doing another search I can't find any more of the cyanobacteria that I saw last month. Is it possible for it to go away on it's own with gravel and water cleanings? I haven't lost any more snails since the one last weekend, and the ones I have left are now laying eggs, so they can't be that bad off, I don't think they lay eggs if they don't think the babies will survive (I think I read that on applesnail.net). The ones in the 55 gallon have not laid eggs yet, but there are about 4 egg batches around the sides of the hood of the 125 gallon tank. I added another powerhead to the tank, perhaps they like the increased water flow? I was planning on taking the HOB filter off the side since I added a powerhead inside the tank (it's rated 600 gph, and the HOB is 400 gph, so it's an improvement even if I remove the HOB). Should I still dose with erythromyacin if I can't find any signs of cyanobacteria left in the tank? Amber ------------------------------------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the home page. Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com to receive the digest, which includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com for the No E-Mail option where you will still be able to read messages on the group and post replies. Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com to receive individual e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 45010	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 12/7/2009
Subject: Re: Cyanobacteria

Okay, not sure what happened to the cyanobacteria, but I think I figured out what was causing deaths in my 125 gallon tank. I caught one of the cats "playing" in the tank today, I didn't think they could reach but apparently she cant. I moved all furniture further away to make sure they can't reach into the tank anymore. Hopefully there won't be any more deaths now. Amber Dora Smith wrote: > > The snails ate it? LOL! > > Yours, > Dora Smith > Austin, TX > tiggernut24@... <mailto:tiggernut24%40yahoo.com> > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Amber Berglund" <arberglund@... > <mailto:arberglund%40gmail.com>> > To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>> > Sent: Monday, December 07, 2009 1:30 PM > Subject: [AquaticLife] Cyanobacteria > > Okay after doing another search I can't find any more of the > cyanobacteria that I saw last month. Is it possible for it to go away on > it's own with gravel and water cleanings? I haven't lost any more snails > since the one last weekend, and the ones I have left are now laying > eggs, so they can't be that bad off, I don't think they lay eggs if they > don't think the babies will survive (I think I read that on > applesnail.net). The ones in the 55 gallon have not laid eggs yet, but > there are about 4 egg batches around the sides of the hood of the 125 > gallon tank. I added another powerhead to the tank, perhaps they like > the increased water flow? I was planning on taking the HOB filter off > the side since I added a powerhead inside the tank (it's rated 600 gph, > and the HOB is 400 gph, so it's an improvement even if I remove the HOB). > Should I still dose with erythromyacin if I can't find any signs of > cyanobacteria left in the tank? > > Amber > > ------------------------------------ > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. > ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> > PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT > important to > the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the > SUBJECT > LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- > <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. > > If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of unsubscribing, > you > can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My Membership" on > the > home page. > > Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:aquaticlife-digest%40yahoogroups.com> to receive the digest, > which > includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email > > Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:aquaticlife-nomail%40yahoogroups.com> for the No E-Mail option > where > you will still be able to read messages on the group and post replies. > > Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:aquaticlife-normal%40yahoogroups.com> to receive individual > e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 45011	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 12/7/2009
Subject: Re: The Armory of Freshwater Aquarium Maintenance Tools

I left a similar comment saying that more than a pH test was needed. You did not see it? \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Lenny V. aka GoldLenny Sent: Monday, December 07, 2009 10:31 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] The Armory of Freshwater Aquarium Maintenance Tools This only mentions a pH testing kit... which is going to cost around $5.00 or so. An entire Master Test Kit can be had for around $15.00 at Walmart.com, which is a much better suggestion/choice. I left this comment on the blog but I'm not sure if they'll moderate it or not. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Steve Szabo Sent: Sunday, December 06, 2009 4:44 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] The Armory of Freshwater Aquarium Maintenance Tools http://www.aquariumbliss.com/aquariums/the-armory-of-freshwater-aquarium-mai ntenance-tools http://tinyurl.com/ye7yqyg The Armory of Freshwater Aquarium Maintenance Tools Dec 4th, 2009 by Aquarium Lover. Good and clean aquariums are the pride of the aquarist. But in order for these proud aquarists to have, sparkling clean fish tanks, they have to do regular maintenance. But doing freshwater aquarium maintenance can be a bit demanding, and so these aquarists have come up with an array of different tools right from the aquarist armory, to ensure that dirt and its minions can never win over the cleanliness of these prime enthusiasts. Gravel Vacuums Specifically called aquarium gravel vacuums, for a more defined naming convention, these machines work exactly like your ordinary vacuum cleaner: they suck off excess dirt in the aquarium that you can't get your hands on, such as excess food and waste materials. Algae Pads/Scraper/Scrubber As the name suggests, they are specifically used to remove the algae from your aquariums, keeping them free of these green monsters. The softer pads are commonly used for acrylic tanks, which are scratched very easily due to their flexible composition. . . . -----------------------<continued at link>--------------------------- \\Steve// ------------------------------------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. 74/`7.88.><((((:>.74/`7.88.74/`7.8><((((:> 8.74/`7.8. , .74/`7..><((((:> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <:((((><.74/`7.88.74/`7.8<:((((><8.74/`7.8. , .74/`7..<:((((><74/`7.88. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the home page. Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com to receive the digest, which includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com for the No E-Mail option where you will still be able to read messages on the group and post replies. Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com to receive individual e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 45012	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 12/7/2009
Subject: Re: The Armory of Freshwater Aquarium Maintenance Tools

No... not unless you go by the name of Lynne's Honey... which, if your wife's name is Lynne, then that might be an appropriate screen name WHEN you're not in the dog house... or would that be fish tank around your house? ;-) http://www.aquariumbliss.com/aquariums/the-armory-of-freshwater-aquarium-mai ntenance-tools Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Steve Szabo Sent: Monday, December 07, 2009 9:37 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] The Armory of Freshwater Aquarium Maintenance Tools I left a similar comment saying that more than a pH test was needed. You did not see it? \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Lenny V. aka GoldLenny Sent: Monday, December 07, 2009 10:31 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] The Armory of Freshwater Aquarium Maintenance Tools This only mentions a pH testing kit... which is going to cost around $5.00 or so. An entire Master Test Kit can be had for around $15.00 at Walmart.com, which is a much better suggestion/choice. I left this comment on the blog but I'm not sure if they'll moderate it or not. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Steve Szabo Sent: Sunday, December 06, 2009 4:44 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] The Armory of Freshwater Aquarium Maintenance Tools http://www.aquariumbliss.com/aquariums/the-armory-of-freshwater-aquarium-mai ntenance-tools http://tinyurl.com/ye7yqyg The Armory of Freshwater Aquarium Maintenance Tools Dec 4th, 2009 by Aquarium Lover. Good and clean aquariums are the pride of the aquarist. But in order for these proud aquarists to have, sparkling clean fish tanks, they have to do regular maintenance. But doing freshwater aquarium maintenance can be a bit demanding, and so these aquarists have come up with an array of different tools right from the aquarist armory, to ensure that dirt and its minions can never win over the cleanliness of these prime enthusiasts. Gravel Vacuums Specifically called aquarium gravel vacuums, for a more defined naming convention, these machines work exactly like your ordinary vacuum cleaner: they suck off excess dirt in the aquarium that you can't get your hands on, such as excess food and waste materials. Algae Pads/Scraper/Scrubber As the name suggests, they are specifically used to remove the algae from your aquariums, keeping them free of these green monsters. The softer pads are commonly used for acrylic tanks, which are scratched very easily due to their flexible composition. . . . -----------------------<continued at link>--------------------------- \\Steve//

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 45013	From: sevenspringss@wmconnect.com	Date: 12/7/2009
Subject: Re: Newbie, and Angelfish question

\\Steve//, As I mentioned looking into it, I had a chance to browse some of my "The Aquarium" magazines earlier this evening. William Innes published an account in 1932 by the noted ichthyologist, George S. Myers, which stated that the first (three) Scalare/Angelfish were imported by Aquarium Hamburg inGermany in 1903, but all three perished. A year later, they again imported some which lived, although they were not able to breed them. Sporadic importations of them occurred after that, both by Germany and in this country, but it wasn't until 1921 that they were bred for the first time (in the U.S.A.), with follow-up reports of breeding them the following year in Germany. At that time, they were selling for $75, which as I estimate it was like 3 weeks salary back then, and I might be conservative on that figure. It wasn't until 1923, that a breeder by the name of Paullin, in Philadelphia, succeeded in breeding them consistantly and was able to sell them for $7.50 each (dime-size) and $10 each (quarter-size) -- considerably more reasonable, but still not cheap for those days when you could buy a quality pair of shoes for about $5 (or LESS). Still, there weren't that many dedicated aquarists who had success breeding them during the 1920's, even though they were bred more frequently over time. By the 1930's, more aquarists found themselves being able to breed them, even though it was not commonplace; the occurances were noteworthy.. The events were more like the beginnings of Discus spawnings as people then slowly began breeding that species. Ray [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 45014	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 12/8/2009
Subject: Re: Newbie, and Angelfish question

Ray, Just for your information, $75 in 1921 would be the equivalent of $896.65 today. This was calculated using the Cost-of-Living Calculator found at: http://www.aier.org/research/worksheets-and-tools/cost-of-living-calculator http://tinyurl.com/b2jacs \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of sevenspringss@... Sent: Tuesday, December 08, 2009 1:48 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Newbie, and Angelfish question \\Steve//, As I mentioned looking into it, I had a chance to browse some of my "The Aquarium" magazines earlier this evening. William Innes published an account in 1932 by the noted ichthyologist, George S. Myers, which stated that the first (three) Scalare/Angelfish were imported by Aquarium Hamburg inGermany in 1903, but all three perished. A year later, they again imported some which lived, although they were not able to breed them. Sporadic importations of them occurred after that, both by Germany and in this country, but it wasn't until 1921 that they were bred for the first time (in the U.S.A.), with follow-up reports of breeding them the following year in Germany. At that time, they were selling for $75, which as I estimate it was like 3 weeks salary back then, and I might be conservative on that figure. It wasn't until 1923, that a breeder by the name of Paullin, in Philadelphia, succeeded in breeding them consistantly and was able to sell them for $7.50 each (dime-size) and $10 each (quarter-size) -- considerably more reasonable, but still not cheap for those days when you could buy a quality pair of shoes for about $5 (or LESS). Still, there weren't that many dedicated aquarists who had success breeding them during the 1920's, even though they were bred more frequently over time. By the 1930's, more aquarists found themselves being able to breed them, even though it was not commonplace; the occurances were noteworthy.. The events were more like the beginnings of Discus spawnings as people then slowly began breeding that species. Ray

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 45015	From: sevenspringss@wmconnect.com	Date: 12/8/2009
Subject: Re: Newbie, and Angelfish question

\\Steve//, That's quite the chunk of change, when considering that it takes TWO fish to breed (that's = to $1793.30 for two fish those days, but not necessarily a PAIR). No guarantees that they would breed either, even if they were a pair -- and those days, no way of telling the differences between sexes, since the hobbyists didn't yet know that much about them. And I thought hobbyists were nuts today (well, some ARE, <g>), or even back when I was importing and selling those then-new Tanganyika fish and Malawi's from the other side (Mossambique) of the Lake. We know there are Asian hobbyists who pay thousands of dollars for those Flowerhorns, and show-quality Discus in Japan can command all kinds of money. Let's not forget what some people will pay for certain patterns of Koi. I remember when solid-Red Oscars were first announced (late 1960's?) and written up in TFH, as being developed in the Far East. No one here in this country had ever seen anything like that yet. The first importer in this country to get them was Mike out at Aquarium Imports (Amittyville, Long Island). Being kept "in the circle" even back then, I was contacted about them when they first came in. He only received two of them, each about 6" or 7" and had them priced at $400 for the "pair." As Mike was a good customer of mine anyway, I took the trip out there to see the fish -- along with an order of other fish I brought him. As I was heavy into breeding Oscars back then, I was really tempted, but I knew that with just two fish it's a 50 - 50 chance that it would be a pair, so I left them there afterall. New fish always bring big bucks though, if there's promise for them as being popular down the road, as there's always someone who'll want to get on the bandwagon with them. Ray </HTML>

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 45016	From: Dora Smith	Date: 12/8/2009
Subject: OK, here's my purple algae

Here's my purple algae - photos, and photos under a microscope. If anyone knows what it is. http://www.tiggernut24.com/Microscope/PurpleAlgae.html Yours, Dora Smith Austin, TX tiggernut24@... [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 45017	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 12/8/2009
Subject: Re: OK, here's my purple algae

The pictures of the stuff on the glass are pretty blurry. Your best bet is to go to all of the Algae links that I've previously posted and look through the photos to find what matches what you have. Is that a window in the background of that first (top left) image? That will ALWAYS bring you lots of algae issues. As far as the microscope photos, they all kind of resemble my ex-M-I-L but I doubt she's living in your tank... although I might have use to think about her feeding the fish back then... Chicago style! ;-) You should probably get with your local university biology department for help with identifying microscopic images. That sounds like a project for a classroom full of college students. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Dora Smith Sent: Tuesday, December 08, 2009 8:19 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] OK, here's my purple algae Here's my purple algae - photos, and photos under a microscope. If anyone knows what it is. http://www.tiggernut24.com/Microscope/PurpleAlgae.html Yours, Dora Smith Austin, TX tiggernut24@...

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 45018	From: bill 1433	Date: 12/8/2009
Subject: Re: Newbie, and Angelfish question

Gentlemen,   At these prices it may have cheaper to just march yourself down to the Amazon and bring a "bucket full" home!   Incidentally, \\Steve//?  I enjoyed that cost of living calculator link. It was fun using it but alas, I came away just as poor, even in 29'! <g>   Bill --- On Tue, 12/8/09, sevenspringss@... <sevenspringss@...> wrote: From: sevenspringss@... <sevenspringss@...> Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Newbie, and Angelfish question To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Date: Tuesday, December 8, 2009, 7:30 AM \\Steve//,  That's quite the chunk of change, when considering that it takes TWO fish to breed (that's = to $1793.30 for two fish those days, but not necessarily a PAIR).  No guarantees that they would breed either, even if they were a pair -- and those days, no way of telling the differences between sexes, since the hobbyists didn't yet know that much about them.  And I thought hobbyists were nuts today (well, some ARE, <g>), or even back when I was importing and selling those then-new Tanganyika fish and Malawi's from the other side (Mossambique) of the Lake.  We know there are Asian hobbyists who pay thousands of dollars for those Flowerhorns, and show-quality Discus in Japan can command all kinds of money.  Let's not forget what some people will pay for certain patterns of Koi.  I remember when solid-Red Oscars were first announced (late 1960's?) and written up in TFH, as being developed in the Far East.  No one here in this country had ever seen anything like that yet.  The first importer in this country to get them was Mike out at Aquarium Imports (Amittyville, Long Island).  Being kept "in the circle" even back then, I was contacted about them when they first came in.  He only received two of them, each about 6" or 7" and had them priced at $400 for the "pair."  As Mike was a good customer of mine anyway, I took the trip out there to see the fish -- along with an order of other fish I brought him.  As I was heavy into breeding Oscars back then, I was really tempted, but I knew that with just two fish it's a 50 - 50 chance that it would be a pair, so I left them there afterall.  New fish always bring big bucks though, if there's promise for them as being popular down the road, as there's always someone who'll want to get on the bandwagon with them. Ray    </HTML> ------------------------------------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the home page.  Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com to receive the digest, which includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com for the No E-Mail option where you will still be able to read messages on the group and post replies. Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com to receive individual e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 45019	From: bill 1433	Date: 12/8/2009
Subject: Re: OK, here's my purple algae

Len,   While we are on the subject anyway and considering she may want to get rid of this stuff, maybe with the use of Hydrogen Peroxide, is there a chart or link which shows the limit to how much you can safely dose an aquarium with the fish still in it?  I.E., 1 ounce to 10 gallons of water?   Bill --- On Tue, 12/8/09, Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@...> wrote: From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@...> Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] OK, here's my purple algae To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Date: Tuesday, December 8, 2009, 11:01 AM The pictures of the stuff on the glass are pretty blurry.  Your best bet is to go to all of the Algae links that I've previously posted and look through the photos to find what matches what you have. Is that a window in the background of that first (top left) image?  That will ALWAYS bring you lots of algae issues. As far as the microscope photos, they all kind of resemble my ex-M-I-L but I doubt she's living in your tank... although I might have use to think about her feeding the fish back then... Chicago style! ;-) You should probably get with your local university biology department for help with identifying microscopic images.  That sounds like a project for a classroom full of college students. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Dora Smith Sent: Tuesday, December 08, 2009 8:19 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] OK, here's my purple algae Here's my purple algae - photos, and photos under a microscope.    If anyone knows what it is. http://www.tiggernut24.com/Microscope/PurpleAlgae.html Yours, Dora Smith Austin, TX tiggernut24@... ------------------------------------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the home page.  Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com to receive the digest, which includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com for the No E-Mail option where you will still be able to read messages on the group and post replies. Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com to receive individual e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 45020	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 12/8/2009
Subject: Re: OK, here's my purple algae

Also keep in mind that hydrogen peroxide is not safe for snails or shrimp (invertebrates), so if she has those she can't use it. Amber bill 1433 wrote: > > Len, > > While we are on the subject anyway and considering she may want > to get rid of this stuff, maybe with the use of Hydrogen Peroxide, is > there a chart > or link which shows the limit to how much you can safely dose an > aquarium with the fish still in it? I.E., 1 ounce to 10 gallons of water? > > Bill > > --- On Tue, 12/8/09, Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@... > <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com>> wrote: > > From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@... > <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com>> > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] OK, here's my purple algae > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Date: Tuesday, December 8, 2009, 11:01 AM > > The pictures of the stuff on the glass are pretty blurry. Your best bet is > to go to all of the Algae links that I've previously posted and look > through > the photos to find what matches what you have. > > Is that a window in the background of that first (top left) image? That > will ALWAYS bring you lots of algae issues. > > As far as the microscope photos, they all kind of resemble my ex-M-I-L > but I > doubt she's living in your tank... although I might have use to think > about > her feeding the fish back then... Chicago style! ;-) > > You should probably get with your local university biology department for > help with identifying microscopic images. That sounds like a project for a > classroom full of college students. > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right > side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On > Behalf Of Dora Smith > Sent: Tuesday, December 08, 2009 8:19 AM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Subject: [AquaticLife] OK, here's my purple algae > > Here's my purple algae - photos, and photos under a microscope. If anyone > knows what it is. > > http://www.tiggernut24.com/Microscope/PurpleAlgae.html > <http://www.tiggernut24.com/Microscope/PurpleAlgae.html> > > Yours, > Dora Smith > Austin, TX > tiggernut24@... <mailto:tiggernut24%40yahoo.com> > > ------------------------------------ > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. > ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> > PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT > important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message > MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- > <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. > > If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of unsubscribing, > you can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My > Membership" on the home page. > > Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:aquaticlife-digest%40yahoogroups.com> to receive the digest, > which includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email > > Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:aquaticlife-nomail%40yahoogroups.com> for the No E-Mail option > where you will still be able to read messages on the group and post > replies. > > Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:aquaticlife-normal%40yahoogroups.com> to receive individual > e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 45021	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 12/8/2009
Subject: update on black beard algae

Okay so after about 2 weeks of dosing with excel (first week I dosed according to the bottle, this last week I did something different, I did 2 separate PWC's of about 20% in a matter of 3-4 hours, then I did the initial dose on the bottle for 1 cap full per 10 gallons, I then dosed at 2 cap fulls each day for several days which is double the normal daily dose, then I did another series of 20% PWC's again and dosed the initial 1 cap/10 gallons again and continued with 2 cap fulls a day). This weekend I noticed the black beard algae is starting to "melt" away. I'm going to do another 2 PWC's after work this evening and dose with the 1 cap per 10 gallons again. Not sure if it's harming any of the critters, I've only lost 1 snail and it was one of my oldest ones, so I can only assume that it was at the end of it's life span. Shrimp have been hiding more, but they are still alive, they must not like the flourish excel for some reason. Amber

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 45022	From: pam andress	Date: 12/8/2009
Subject: Re: update on black beard algae

I was dosing as to the directions for over a week and nothing was happening, so it sounds like you may have figured it out. I think I will up the dosage. I have it in a couple of tanks. It is a pita to get rid of. Pam To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com From: arberglund@... Date: Tue, 8 Dec 2009 09:04:09 -0900 Subject: [AquaticLife] update on black beard algae Okay so after about 2 weeks of dosing with excel (first week I dosed according to the bottle, this last week I did something different, I did 2 separate PWC's of about 20% in a matter of 3-4 hours, then I did the initial dose on the bottle for 1 cap full per 10 gallons, I then dosed at 2 cap fulls each day for several days which is double the normal daily dose, then I did another series of 20% PWC's again and dosed the initial 1 cap/10 gallons again and continued with 2 cap fulls a day). This weekend I noticed the black beard algae is starting to "melt" away. I'm going to do another 2 PWC's after work this evening and dose with the 1 cap per 10 gallons again. Not sure if it's harming any of the critters, I've only lost 1 snail and it was one of my oldest ones, so I can only assume that it was at the end of it's life span. Shrimp have been hiding more, but they are still alive, they must not like the flourish excel for some reason. Amber [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 45023	From: Dora Smith	Date: 12/8/2009
Subject: Can slime mold invade aquariums?

Question; can slime mold invade aquariums? Someone on one of my amateur microscopy list said that to him my purple algae look more like slime mold. He thought they lacked chloroplasts. I actually think he's probably wrong, partly because it looks to me like they have blue-green algae style chloroplasts- the chlorophyll takes up all the internal space or large parts thereof and there are no other structures. I actually doubt whether slime mold can invade an aquarium; can it? Yours, Dora Smith Austin, TX tiggernut24@...

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 45024	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 12/8/2009
Subject: Re: OK, here's my purple algae

I don't think there's a chart but here's a couple of links. 1 oz. per 10G is supposed to be reasonably safe, especially if spot treating with a syringe so the spot treated area gets the strongest solution of 3% HP and then, with the filters running, the HP is diluted around the rest of the tank. Do a 25% PWC prior to treatment and the day after treatment. I've seen posts for fishless tanks with plants and algae only use 2 oz. per 10G but when folks with fish, shrimp, snails, etc., tried this, they had some die off the next day. Here's the links I mentioned above... 2 page article - http://www.malawicichlidhomepage.com/aquainfo/algae_peroxide.html 13 posts on TheKrib - http://www.thekrib.com/Plants/Algae/hydrogen-peroxide.html Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of bill 1433 Sent: Tuesday, December 08, 2009 10:49 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] OK, here's my purple algae Len,   While we are on the subject anyway and considering she may want to get rid of this stuff, maybe with the use of Hydrogen Peroxide, is there a chart or link which shows the limit to how much you can safely dose an aquarium with the fish still in it?  I.E., 1 ounce to 10 gallons of water?   Bill --- On Tue, 12/8/09, Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@...> wrote: From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@...> Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] OK, here's my purple algae To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Date: Tuesday, December 8, 2009, 11:01 AM The pictures of the stuff on the glass are pretty blurry.  Your best bet is to go to all of the Algae links that I've previously posted and look through the photos to find what matches what you have. Is that a window in the background of that first (top left) image?  That will ALWAYS bring you lots of algae issues. As far as the microscope photos, they all kind of resemble my ex-M-I-L but I doubt she's living in your tank... although I might have use to think about her feeding the fish back then... Chicago style! ;-) You should probably get with your local university biology department for help with identifying microscopic images.  That sounds like a project for a classroom full of college students. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Dora Smith Sent: Tuesday, December 08, 2009 8:19 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] OK, here's my purple algae Here's my purple algae - photos, and photos under a microscope.    If anyone knows what it is. http://www.tiggernut24.com/Microscope/PurpleAlgae.html Yours, Dora Smith Austin, TX tiggernut24@...

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 45025	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 12/8/2009
Subject: Re: Can slime mold invade aquariums?

I've seen all kinds of mold in improperly maintained aquariums and sometimes even in properly maintained aquariums where the mold will grow on a new piece of driftwood put into the tank. Mold spores are pretty much everywhere. Uneaten food can form mold on it... as seen in Fishless Cycling with flake food (not a method I recommend but it is still done when folks can't find plain ammonia... but I'd use pee over flake food in that case, if it was up to me). Probably any kind of dead/decaying organic matter can get mold growing on it. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Dora Smith Sent: Tuesday, December 08, 2009 1:31 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Can slime mold invade aquariums? Question; can slime mold invade aquariums? Someone on one of my amateur microscopy list said that to him my purple algae look more like slime mold. He thought they lacked chloroplasts. I actually think he's probably wrong, partly because it looks to me like they have blue-green algae style chloroplasts- the chlorophyll takes up all the internal space or large parts thereof and there are no other structures. I actually doubt whether slime mold can invade an aquarium; can it? Yours, Dora Smith Austin, TX tiggernut24@...

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 45026	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 12/8/2009
Subject: http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com ranked on XMarks.com - Thanks!!!

Thanks to everyone that uses XMarks (formerly Foxmarks) and saved my site, http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com as a Favorite/Bookmark! I started using Xmarks a couple of weeks ago to keep a few of my computers and browsers (IE8 and FF3.5) synched for Favorites/Bookmarks (Thanks! \\Steve//) and I just got an email alert from Google Alerts that my site was listed as being a web favorite of many Xmarks users. I didn't even know this "feature" existed with Xmarks but apparently, they keep track of who has which websites saved in their Favorites/Bookmarks and then compiles a ranking based on how many Xmarks users have the same website saved. http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com was ranked #52 under the section called Aquatics, ahead of Aquarium Fish International Magazine forums, called FishChannel.com, which was ranked #55 and my site was ranked #137 under the section called Tropical Fish. Of course, I'm still way down below some other rather obscure sites like RunWMAC.com, which is a site about running/jogging for the Western Mass Athletic Club... no clue why they're listed under the Aquatics section but they're ahead of me. LOL I did like their creative/comical naming of some of their races though, like "The Fat A$$ 50K (31 miles)" - http://www.runwmac.com/info-fatass50.html. LOL I'm not sure how many "Fat A$$" runners would make it 31 miles though.. unless it was a multi-day event with stops at every donut shop along the way... where can I sign up? :-O BTW... the number one site under the Aquatics category... Practical Fishkeeping Magazine, http://www.practicalfishkeeping.co.uk/ and I noticed TheKrib.com was ranked number 20 so at least I'm in good company. Under the section called Tropical Fish, Fishlore.com was first and Practical Fishkeeping was second. Oh yeah.... if you're an Xmarks user, save my site now to bump me up a little next time. ;-) Thanks again!!! Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month)

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 45027	From: bill 1433	Date: 12/8/2009
Subject: Re: OK, here's my purple algae

Hi Len,   Thanks so much for the links AGAIN!  I say that because I think you did post this information a few months ago.  I disregarded it at the time because I didn't have the problem then but do now.   There might be something there for those new to the group.   Just because you don't need it now-----you may need it later! Bookmark It!   We are never sure of when Len takes a vacation or if he's out for Mardi Gras!  <g>   Thanks Again Buddy,   Bill --- On Tue, 12/8/09, Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@...> wrote: From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@...> Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] OK, here's my purple algae To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Date: Tuesday, December 8, 2009, 5:22 PM I don't think there's a chart but here's a couple of links. 1 oz. per 10G is supposed to be reasonably safe, especially if spot treating with a syringe so the spot treated area gets the strongest solution of 3% HP and then, with the filters running, the HP is diluted around the rest of the tank.  Do a 25% PWC prior to treatment and the day after treatment. I've seen posts for fishless tanks with plants and algae only use 2 oz. per 10G but when folks with fish, shrimp, snails, etc., tried this, they had some die off the next day. Here's the links I mentioned above... 2 page article - http://www.malawicichlidhomepage.com/aquainfo/algae_peroxide.html 13 posts on TheKrib - http://www.thekrib.com/Plants/Algae/hydrogen-peroxide.html Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of bill 1433 Sent: Tuesday, December 08, 2009 10:49 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] OK, here's my purple algae Len,   While we are on the subject anyway and considering she may want to get rid of this stuff, maybe with the use of Hydrogen Peroxide, is there a chart or link which shows the limit to how much you can safely dose an aquarium with the fish still in it?  I.E., 1 ounce to 10 gallons of water?   Bill --- On Tue, 12/8/09, Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@...> wrote: From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@...> Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] OK, here's my purple algae To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Date: Tuesday, December 8, 2009, 11:01 AM The pictures of the stuff on the glass are pretty blurry.  Your best bet is to go to all of the Algae links that I've previously posted and look through the photos to find what matches what you have. Is that a window in the background of that first (top left) image?  That will ALWAYS bring you lots of algae issues. As far as the microscope photos, they all kind of resemble my ex-M-I-L but I doubt she's living in your tank... although I might have use to think about her feeding the fish back then... Chicago style! ;-) You should probably get with your local university biology department for help with identifying microscopic images.  That sounds like a project for a classroom full of college students. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Dora Smith Sent: Tuesday, December 08, 2009 8:19 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] OK, here's my purple algae Here's my purple algae - photos, and photos under a microscope.    If anyone knows what it is. http://www.tiggernut24.com/Microscope/PurpleAlgae.html Yours, Dora Smith Austin, TX tiggernut24@... ------------------------------------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the home page.  Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com to receive the digest, which includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com for the No E-Mail option where you will still be able to read messages on the group and post replies. Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com to receive individual e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 45028	From: bill 1433	Date: 12/8/2009
Subject: Re: http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com ranked on XMarks.com - Thanks!!!

Len,    I would not worry to much about your site or its rankings.  I have it bookmarked and visit often, sometimes just to refresh on what I have read before.  It's valuable also for all the "firsts" and "new to the hobby" type of things it offers.  And of course, the now famous "Links" of yours!   Bill --- On Tue, 12/8/09, Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@...> wrote: From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@...> Subject: [AquaticLife] http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com ranked on XMarks.com - Thanks!!! To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Date: Tuesday, December 8, 2009, 6:05 PM Thanks to everyone that uses XMarks (formerly Foxmarks) and saved my site, http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com as a Favorite/Bookmark! I started using Xmarks a couple of weeks ago to keep a few of my computers and browsers (IE8 and FF3.5) synched for Favorites/Bookmarks (Thanks! \\Steve//) and I just got an email alert from Google Alerts that my site was listed as being a web favorite of many Xmarks users.  I didn't even know this "feature" existed with Xmarks but apparently, they keep track of who has which websites saved in their Favorites/Bookmarks and then compiles a ranking based on how many Xmarks users have the same website saved. http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com was ranked #52 under the section called Aquatics, ahead of Aquarium Fish International Magazine forums, called FishChannel.com, which was ranked #55 and my site was ranked #137 under the section called Tropical Fish.  Of course, I'm still way down below some other rather obscure sites like RunWMAC.com, which is a site about running/jogging for the Western Mass Athletic Club... no clue why they're listed under the Aquatics section but they're ahead of me. LOL  I did like their creative/comical naming of some of their races though, like "The Fat A$$ 50K (31 miles)" - http://www.runwmac.com/info-fatass50.html.%c2%a0 LOL  I'm not sure how many "Fat A$$" runners would make it 31 miles though.. unless it was a multi-day event with stops at every donut shop along the way... where can I sign up? :-O BTW... the number one site under the Aquatics category... Practical Fishkeeping Magazine, http://www.practicalfishkeeping.co.uk/ and I noticed TheKrib.com was ranked number 20 so at least I'm in good company.  Under the section called Tropical Fish, Fishlore.com was first and Practical Fishkeeping was second. Oh yeah.... if you're an Xmarks user, save my site now to bump me up a little next time. ;-) Thanks again!!! Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) ------------------------------------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the home page.  Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com to receive the digest, which includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com for the No E-Mail option where you will still be able to read messages on the group and post replies. Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com to receive individual e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 45029	From: Dora Smith	Date: 12/8/2009
Subject: Re: [Bulk] RE: [AquaticLife] OK, here's my purple algae

Well, I want to know what it is before I consider whether to make more than cosmetic attempts to get rid of it. Yours, Dora Smith Austin, TX tiggernut24@... ----- Original Message ----- From: "bill 1433" <warrenprint@...> To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Tuesday, December 08, 2009 5:18 PM Subject: [Bulk] RE: [AquaticLife] OK, here's my purple algae -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of bill 1433 Sent: Tuesday, December 08, 2009 10:49 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] OK, here's my purple algae Len, While we are on the subject anyway and considering she may want to get rid of this stuff, maybe with the use of Hydrogen Peroxide, is there a chart or link which shows the limit to how much you can safely dose an aquarium with the fish still in it? I.E., 1 ounce to 10 gallons of water? Bill --- On Tue, 12/8/09, Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@...> wrote:

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 45030	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 12/8/2009
Subject: Re: [Bulk] RE: [AquaticLife] OK, here's my purple algae

As I said before, your best bet for identifying it is to have your local university biology department give it a whack. Or you could try submitting pictures to a university like UFL.edu which has an extensive list of articles on all types of fishkeeping topics. Here's a few I found with a search on http://edis.ifas.ufl.edu/ for algae. The webpage simply shows an abstract but you can download the PDF document from the Adobe PDF button near the top of the page. http://edis.ifas.ufl.edu/fa078 http://edis.ifas.ufl.edu/fa079 http://edis.ifas.ufl.edu/sg072 http://edis.ifas.ufl.edu/fa104 http://edis.ifas.ufl.edu/fa105 Here's how to contact the Fisheries and Aquatic Sciences department. http://edis.ifas.ufl.edu/departments/fisheries.html OR better yet, http://fishweb.ifas.ufl.edu/ which has a couple of email addresses listed. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Dora Smith Sent: Tuesday, December 08, 2009 5:43 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [Bulk] RE: [AquaticLife] OK, here's my purple algae Well, I want to know what it is before I consider whether to make more than cosmetic attempts to get rid of it. Yours, Dora Smith Austin, TX tiggernut24@... ----- Original Message ----- From: "bill 1433" <warrenprint@...> To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Tuesday, December 08, 2009 5:18 PM Subject: [Bulk] RE: [AquaticLife] OK, here's my purple algae -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of bill 1433 Sent: Tuesday, December 08, 2009 10:49 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] OK, here's my purple algae Len, While we are on the subject anyway and considering she may want to get rid of this stuff, maybe with the use of Hydrogen Peroxide, is there a chart or link which shows the limit to how much you can safely dose an aquarium with the fish still in it? I.E., 1 ounce to 10 gallons of water? Bill --- On Tue, 12/8/09, Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@...> wrote: ------------------------------------

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 45031	From: cobra427lady	Date: 12/8/2009
Subject: New to the Group

Hi, All: wanted to introduce myself and get some feedback on a new set up I am tackling....this post will be kinda long so I apologize in advance :-) I currently have a 40G that is thriving - it is a mixed community (4 dwarf rams, 3 bleedingheart tetras, 3 platys, 2 dwarf gouramis, 1 angel, 3 loaches, 9 runmmynose tetras, 1 bushynose pleco and 1 striped peacock eel). I run an Eheim 2236 canister and a powerhead for extra flow, which the fishes really like. No problems to relate....I love the set up. However, I recently received a 100G tall hex with stand and an Eheim Pro II filter (free so could not pass it up). I don't mind saying that it's size is a bit daunting and after ascertaining it will hold water, I am now in the process of figuring out what to do with it/put in it, etc...that's why I joined your group. I will be starting the cycling process this week and will be using freshwater live substrate from CaribSea which might shorten the cycling a bit but I have time to decide what to do....any one have now or ever have a tall hex? Difficulties/benefits??? I know that due to surface area, I am restricted in the number of fish as opposed to a 100G long tank, but quantity is not important to me.....a healthy & pleasing environment is. Looking forward to any and all helpful comments/suggestions. Thanks, Clare

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 45032	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 12/8/2009
Subject: Re: http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com ranked on XMarks.com - Thanks!!!

By the by, Practical Fishkeeping's site is still down. \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Lenny V. aka GoldLenny Sent: Tuesday, December 08, 2009 6:06 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com ranked on XMarks.com - Thanks!!! Thanks to everyone that uses XMarks (formerly Foxmarks) and saved my site, http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com as a Favorite/Bookmark! I started using Xmarks a couple of weeks ago to keep a few of my computers and browsers (IE8 and FF3.5) synched for Favorites/Bookmarks (Thanks! \\Steve//) and I just got an email alert from Google Alerts that my site was listed as being a web favorite of many Xmarks users. I didn't even know this "feature" existed with Xmarks but apparently, they keep track of who has which websites saved in their Favorites/Bookmarks and then compiles a ranking based on how many Xmarks users have the same website saved. http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com was ranked #52 under the section called Aquatics, ahead of Aquarium Fish International Magazine forums, called FishChannel.com, which was ranked #55 and my site was ranked #137 under the section called Tropical Fish. Of course, I'm still way down below some other rather obscure sites like RunWMAC.com, which is a site about running/jogging for the Western Mass Athletic Club... no clue why they're listed under the Aquatics section but they're ahead of me. LOL I did like their creative/comical naming of some of their races though, like "The Fat A$$ 50K (31 miles)" - http://www.runwmac.com/info-fatass50.html. LOL I'm not sure how many "Fat A$$" runners would make it 31 miles though.. unless it was a multi-day event with stops at every donut shop along the way... where can I sign up? :-O BTW... the number one site under the Aquatics category... Practical Fishkeeping Magazine, http://www.practicalfishkeeping.co.uk/ and I noticed TheKrib.com was ranked number 20 so at least I'm in good company. Under the section called Tropical Fish, Fishlore.com was first and Practical Fishkeeping was second. Oh yeah.... if you're an Xmarks user, save my site now to bump me up a little next time. ;-) Thanks again!!! Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month)

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 45033	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 12/8/2009
Subject: Re: http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com ranked on XMarks.com - Thanks!!!

Yeah, I saw that after I included the link to their site. They must have really gotten hacked bad for it to be down this long... or their backed up version of their site, presuming they had one, must have still had so many security flaws that they couldn't just put it online and are having to go through and re-write a lot of code. I still have my last edition of their e-Newsletter, from last week, marked as Unread so I can read some of the articles that are highlighted in the e-Newsletter, once the site is back up... hoping that everything still works. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Steve Szabo Sent: Tuesday, December 08, 2009 9:12 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com ranked on XMarks.com - Thanks!!! By the by, Practical Fishkeeping's site is still down. \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Lenny V. aka GoldLenny Sent: Tuesday, December 08, 2009 6:06 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com ranked on XMarks.com - Thanks!!! Thanks to everyone that uses XMarks (formerly Foxmarks) and saved my site, http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com as a Favorite/Bookmark! I started using Xmarks a couple of weeks ago to keep a few of my computers and browsers (IE8 and FF3.5) synched for Favorites/Bookmarks (Thanks! \\Steve//) and I just got an email alert from Google Alerts that my site was listed as being a web favorite of many Xmarks users. I didn't even know this "feature" existed with Xmarks but apparently, they keep track of who has which websites saved in their Favorites/Bookmarks and then compiles a ranking based on how many Xmarks users have the same website saved. http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com was ranked #52 under the section called Aquatics, ahead of Aquarium Fish International Magazine forums, called FishChannel.com, which was ranked #55 and my site was ranked #137 under the section called Tropical Fish. Of course, I'm still way down below some other rather obscure sites like RunWMAC.com, which is a site about running/jogging for the Western Mass Athletic Club... no clue why they're listed under the Aquatics section but they're ahead of me. LOL I did like their creative/comical naming of some of their races though, like "The Fat A$$ 50K (31 miles)" - http://www.runwmac.com/info-fatass50.html. LOL I'm not sure how many "Fat A$$" runners would make it 31 miles though.. unless it was a multi-day event with stops at every donut shop along the way... where can I sign up? :-O BTW... the number one site under the Aquatics category... Practical Fishkeeping Magazine, http://www.practicalfishkeeping.co.uk/ and I noticed TheKrib.com was ranked number 20 so at least I'm in good company. Under the section called Tropical Fish, Fishlore.com was first and Practical Fishkeeping was second. Oh yeah.... if you're an Xmarks user, save my site now to bump me up a little next time. ;-) Thanks again!!! Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) ------------------------------------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. 74/`7.88.><((((:>.74/`7.88.74/`7.8><((((:> 8.74/`7.8. , .74/`7..><((((:> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <:((((><.74/`7.88.74/`7.8<:((((><8.74/`7.8. , .74/`7..<:((((><74/`7.88. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the home page. Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com to receive the digest, which includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com for the No E-Mail option where you will still be able to read messages on the group and post replies. Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com to receive individual e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 45034	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 12/8/2009
Subject: Re: New to the Group

I have never had one that large, but I loved my hex tank (now if only my parents would give it back, LOL). It's true that you can't keep as many fish in it compared to a 100 gallon LONG tank, but it's still a nice sized tank. I would for one thing move your 1 angel over to that bigger tank as it's putting your current bioload up a bit higher on that 40 gallon, my 2 Angelfish currently have their own tank of 55 gallon's to themselves, not to mention they tend to get fairly aggressive at some point (not all of them do, but some can be nasty to other fish and nip at them at times, especially slower moving fish). If you move your angel that lets you get other semi aggressive type fish and keep your 40 gallon as a community tank. Amber cobra427lady wrote: > > Hi, All: > wanted to introduce myself and get some feedback on a new set up I am > tackling....this post will be kinda long so I apologize in advance :-) > I currently have a 40G that is thriving - it is a mixed community (4 > dwarf rams, 3 bleedingheart tetras, 3 platys, 2 dwarf gouramis, 1 > angel, 3 loaches, 9 runmmynose tetras, 1 bushynose pleco and 1 striped > peacock eel). I run an Eheim 2236 canister and a powerhead for extra > flow, which the fishes really like. No problems to relate....I love > the set up. > However, I recently received a 100G tall hex with stand and an Eheim > Pro II filter (free so could not pass it up). I don't mind saying that > it's size is a bit daunting and after ascertaining it will hold water, > I am now in the process of figuring out what to do with it/put in it, > etc...that's why I joined your group. > I will be starting the cycling process this week and will be using > freshwater live substrate from CaribSea which might shorten the > cycling a bit but I have time to decide what to do....any one have now > or ever have a tall hex? Difficulties/benefits??? I know that due to > surface area, I am restricted in the number of fish as opposed to a > 100G long tank, but quantity is not important to me.....a healthy & > pleasing environment is. > Looking forward to any and all helpful comments/suggestions. > Thanks, > Clare > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 45035	From: amejia1976	Date: 12/8/2009
Subject: Re: Planted Aquarium

OK, Thanks all for the info - I have been working overnights the past few days and have had little time to respond/reply to your questions. To answer Amber - I am using the API master test kit for freshwater; ph, Ammonia, Nitrate and Nitrite. Do not have a water hardness test - should I get one? Test Results 11/19/09 Low pH @ 7.6 High pH @ 8.0 Ammonia @ 0 Nitrite @ 0 Nitrate @ 160 11/26/09 Low pH @ 6.4 High pH @ 8.0 Ammonia @ 0 Nitrite @ 0 Nitrate @ 0 12/8/09 pH @ 7.8 Ammonia @ 0 Nitrite @ 0 Nitrate @ 5ppm Lenny I am sure I can find some of those high lumens bulbs here in Orlando. As to how I came up with the 475gph - I measure the length of the tubing (3/4in) coming from the pump to the elbow. Sump has about 5g in there On Saturday 12/5 I did a 20% water change, cleaned the sump, tank walls, all sponges, tank overflow box. Did not clean or touch the bioballs. I cleaned as I figured with so many fish that died the amount of dirt was too large. I did not have my powered gravel pump available but did use a suction type one. Speaking of bio balls; could I use some of the ones dr fosters smith have that can be filled with carbon should I choose to not use real plants? Today I did a water test. After that came back positive I added 20 feeder guppies and 10 ghost shrimp ($3.00) just so I can see how things will work and if the nitrifying cycle would work. That is all the fish I have in there. I also added a screen around the overflow box as suggested; that seems to be working by the time I left home @ 1600 east coast US. The tank also has a large piece of mopani drift wood and a small one. Both were cured for over 3 weeks. As for the pictures I can take some. How do I post them on here? Alex --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@...> wrote: > > See Amber's reply also and answer her questions as well. > > There should be a shield of some sort that should be in the overflow box on > the tank side, to keep fish/critters from getting sucked in. See the Images > tab and the middle image on this page. > http://www.marinedepot.com/ps_ViewItem.aspx?category=CPR_CS_Overflow_Boxes_E > xternal_Overflow_Boxes_for_Aquariums&vendor=CPR&idProduct=CR1511&IdCategory= > FIOFEB&tab=2 > > There is the holey piece of plastic that is covering the intake side of the > overflow and then a sponge filter covering the external part of the overflow > so that even if a small fry should make it through the holes in the holey > plastic, it would just end up in the overflow on the outside of the tank and > could be netted back to the main tank. > > If you can't find the holey plastic material, then you should be able to > improvise with a filter sponge block cut to fit in your overflow intake > side. You could even have the sponge block sticking up above the overflow > box so fish couldn't even get into the box if they wanted to. Here's some > examples of the sponge block media. There are various pore sizes. > > http://www.amazon.com/ProClear-Aquatics-Sponge-Block-Pro150/dp/B0006JLUTK > > http://www.petmountain.com/category/346/1/aquarium-foam-sponges.html > > http://www.thatpetplace.com/pet/prod/207322/product.web?gdftrk=xh23lc0p/7HDy > ~g3JgKLcxo30o9zaVSElqGwrCtL3k5jQStXmh90k5x6hluxJsJaQlulCLVfFRwZcBLslWdQq90nr > sxdOMuSt0~Qn~VrgN1~wFpZfIecnYmUJu4YTzw/uIo6aQYdzzrmG/HW4Wt73Yo1MqVRDOdMCVWZN > IOfJv1I5QWMxjGj53tYhyMsl3sG > > Your 25" high tank is not conducive to as many plants since you only have > two 25W fluorescent bulbs but if you shop carefully and find 25W Daylight > Bulbs that give off in excess of 2,000 lumens (I've seen where they can go > from as low as 1,250 up to 2,225 lumens) or more, you could probably get > away with having several varieties of low light plants. If you've been to > my blog, "Planted Tank....", you'll see my lists and links to many low > light, easy to grow plants that would work without the need to upgrade your > lighting. If you win the lottery, then you can upgrade your lighting to a > nice CFL fixture and have more plant options but there are dozens of plants > in the low light category. > > Like Amber said, 475GPH for a 70G tank is not excessive although it may be > on the high side for what many fish are comfortable with and many plants do > not like that kind of flow rate. Usually, if a fish doesn't like that kind > of water movement, they'll find an area with lower movement and hang out in > that area all the time. Are you seeing this? Of course, you should read > profiles on each of your fish to find out what kind of ecosystem they prefer > and then try to get compatible tank mates. I like the profiles on > http://fish.mongabay.com as a good starting place as they also have a > paragraph called "SC" (Suggested Companions) that lists other suitable > tankmates that prefer similar water parameters and ecosystems. > > How did you come up with a 4' elevation and that actual 475 GPH? Actually, > the useful term for pumps, besides flow rate (GPH) is head pressure and > there are several factors that affect head pressure, from elbows in the > plumbing and other plumbing design issues like whether the right size pipe > was used and then how far the pump has to push the water back up to the > discharge. Can you take a picture of your tank, stand, filter and plumbing > from various angles? I'm still not sure what your's even looks like. > > You could also test your actual flow rate using a large garbage can with a > known water volume and then measure how long it takes to fill up the garbage > can to a certain measured mark. 475GPH is equal to 7.9G per minute so if > you mark off 8, 16 and 24G marks on a 30G garbage can, you could measure if > it takes 3 minutes to reach the 24G mark or if it's faster or slower and > then give us the actual times if you can't calculate it out yourself. You > would want the top of the garbage can to be at the same height as the top of > your tank. > > Do you have a sump tank under your main tank? How much water does the > filter reservoir hold? You would need to add that volume to your 70G volume > for true water volume of your system. For example, if you have a 20G sump > tank under a 30G display tank, you could get away with stocking a little > heavier since you have that extra 20G of water volume. There may still be > territory issues but that's separate issue. > > Also, remind us of what you have left in your tank right now. I'm thinking > just a pleco but I want to be sure and we also need to know what kind of > pleco to figure out what other fish you can have. > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right > side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) > > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On > Behalf Of amejia1976 > Sent: Friday, December 04, 2009 2:23 AM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Planted Aquarium > > WOW - talk about information overload - Thanks Lenny and Amber - you guys > are so patient. > > Tank is still cycling as I have added 10 ghost shrimps and a feeder guppy > here and there, also put a pantyhose on the overflow box to avoid the > suction of death and a Plexiglas canopy to cover and reduce evaporation. > > Info on my tank > Rectangular > 25in Height x 36in Wide x 18in Deep > Trickle Wet/Dry Filter similar to this but rated @ 75g > http://z.about.com/d/saltaquarium/1/0/r/Y/1/EshoppsWetDry.jpg > > Tank overflow box similar to this in tank - this is also where the fishies > got sucked into and up the u-tube > http://www.aquabuys.com/miva/graphics/00000001/pca-overflow-box.jpg > > Pump > WOW - just did some digging and found out the pump is rated @ 700gph @ zero > elevation to 50gph @ 12ft elevation. Currently my elevation is 4ft which > gives a 475gph flow - this might be a bit much? Could this be why the > suction onto the overflow box slits is so strong? > http://www.harrisonsponds.com/pdf/magdrive_250_700.pdf > > Test Results > 11/19/09 > Low pH @ 7.6 > High pH @ 8.0 > Ammonia @ 0 > Nitrite @ 0 > Nitrate @ 160 > > 11/26/09 - this are also the exact same numbers from my tap. Testing was > done 4 days after adding 2g of tap water. Have not done testing since - > scheduled for this Saturday Low pH @ 6.4 High pH @ 8.0 Ammonia @ 0 Nitrite @ > 0 Nitrate @ 0 > > 2 Light Ballast rated @ up to 63watts with 2 25watt bulbs > > Thanks again for all your assistance. > > Alex >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 45036	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 12/8/2009
Subject: Re: Planted Aquarium

I'm confused a bit.. You have a nitrate reading on your test results, but you say the tank is empty, are you dosing the tank daily with ammonia? Also your pH should NOT fluctuate like that in only a weeks time, you definitely want to get a GH and a KH test kit (they are 2 separate test kits). I can only guess that your pH is changing so much because you don't have enough KH or GH to buffer the water, but I also don't know what you have in the tank before you did those tests, and if you were dosing with Ammonia or not. Amber amejia1976 wrote: > > OK, > > Thanks all for the info - I have been working overnights the past few > days and have had little time to respond/reply to your questions. > > To answer > > Amber - I am using the API master test kit for freshwater; ph, > Ammonia, Nitrate and Nitrite. Do not have a water hardness test - > should I get one? > > Test Results > > 11/19/09 > Low pH @ 7.6 > High pH @ 8.0 > Ammonia @ 0 > Nitrite @ 0 > Nitrate @ 160 > > 11/26/09 > Low pH @ 6.4 > High pH @ 8.0 > Ammonia @ 0 > Nitrite @ 0 > Nitrate @ 0 > > 12/8/09 > pH @ 7.8 > Ammonia @ 0 > Nitrite @ 0 > Nitrate @ 5ppm > > Lenny > > I am sure I can find some of those high lumens bulbs here in Orlando. > > As to how I came up with the 475gph - I measure the length of the > tubing (3/4in) coming from the pump to the elbow. > > Sump has about 5g in there > > On Saturday 12/5 I did a 20% water change, cleaned the sump, tank > walls, all sponges, tank overflow box. Did not clean or touch the > bioballs. I cleaned as I figured with so many fish that died the > amount of dirt was too large. I did not have my powered gravel pump > available but did use a suction type one. Speaking of bio balls; could > I use some of the ones dr fosters smith have that can be filled with > carbon should I choose to not use real plants? > > Today I did a water test. After that came back positive I added 20 > feeder guppies and 10 ghost shrimp ($3.00) just so I can see how > things will work and if the nitrifying cycle would work. That is all > the fish I have in there. I also added a screen around the overflow > box as suggested; that seems to be working by the time I left home @ > 1600 east coast US. > > The tank also has a large piece of mopani drift wood and a small one. > Both were cured for over 3 weeks. > > As for the pictures I can take some. How do I post them on here? > > Alex > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>, "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" > <GoldLenny@...> wrote: > > > > See Amber's reply also and answer her questions as well. > > > > There should be a shield of some sort that should be in the overflow > box on > > the tank side, to keep fish/critters from getting sucked in. See the > Images > > tab and the middle image on this page. > > > http://www.marinedepot.com/ps_ViewItem.aspx?category=CPR_CS_Overflow_Boxes_E > <http://www.marinedepot.com/ps_ViewItem.aspx?category=CPR_CS_Overflow_Boxes_E> > > > xternal_Overflow_Boxes_for_Aquariums&vendor=CPR&idProduct=CR1511&IdCategory= > > FIOFEB&tab=2 > > > > There is the holey piece of plastic that is covering the intake side > of the > > overflow and then a sponge filter covering the external part of the > overflow > > so that even if a small fry should make it through the holes in the > holey > > plastic, it would just end up in the overflow on the outside of the > tank and > > could be netted back to the main tank. > > > > If you can't find the holey plastic material, then you should be able to > > improvise with a filter sponge block cut to fit in your overflow intake > > side. You could even have the sponge block sticking up above the > overflow > > box so fish couldn't even get into the box if they wanted to. Here's > some > > examples of the sponge block media. There are various pore sizes. > > > > > http://www.amazon.com/ProClear-Aquatics-Sponge-Block-Pro150/dp/B0006JLUTK > <http://www.amazon.com/ProClear-Aquatics-Sponge-Block-Pro150/dp/B0006JLUTK> > > > > http://www.petmountain.com/category/346/1/aquarium-foam-sponges.html > <http://www.petmountain.com/category/346/1/aquarium-foam-sponges.html> > > > > > http://www.thatpetplace.com/pet/prod/207322/product.web?gdftrk=xh23lc0p/7HDy > <http://www.thatpetplace.com/pet/prod/207322/product.web?gdftrk=xh23lc0p/7HDy> > > > ~g3JgKLcxo30o9zaVSElqGwrCtL3k5jQStXmh90k5x6hluxJsJaQlulCLVfFRwZcBLslWdQq90nr > > > sxdOMuSt0~Qn~VrgN1~wFpZfIecnYmUJu4YTzw/uIo6aQYdzzrmG/HW4Wt73Yo1MqVRDOdMCVWZN > > IOfJv1I5QWMxjGj53tYhyMsl3sG > > > > Your 25" high tank is not conducive to as many plants since you only > have > > two 25W fluorescent bulbs but if you shop carefully and find 25W > Daylight > > Bulbs that give off in excess of 2,000 lumens (I've seen where they > can go > > from as low as 1,250 up to 2,225 lumens) or more, you could probably get > > away with having several varieties of low light plants. If you've > been to > > my blog, "Planted Tank....", you'll see my lists and links to many low > > light, easy to grow plants that would work without the need to > upgrade your > > lighting. If you win the lottery, then you can upgrade your lighting > to a > > nice CFL fixture and have more plant options but there are dozens of > plants > > in the low light category. > > > > Like Amber said, 475GPH for a 70G tank is not excessive although it > may be > > on the high side for what many fish are comfortable with and many > plants do > > not like that kind of flow rate. Usually, if a fish doesn't like > that kind > > of water movement, they'll find an area with lower movement and hang > out in > > that area all the time. Are you seeing this? Of course, you should read > > profiles on each of your fish to find out what kind of ecosystem > they prefer > > and then try to get compatible tank mates. I like the profiles on > > http://fish.mongabay.com <http://fish.mongabay.com> as a good > starting place as they also have a > > paragraph called "SC" (Suggested Companions) that lists other suitable > > tankmates that prefer similar water parameters and ecosystems. > > > > How did you come up with a 4' elevation and that actual 475 GPH? > Actually, > > the useful term for pumps, besides flow rate (GPH) is head pressure and > > there are several factors that affect head pressure, from elbows in the > > plumbing and other plumbing design issues like whether the right > size pipe > > was used and then how far the pump has to push the water back up to the > > discharge. Can you take a picture of your tank, stand, filter and > plumbing > > from various angles? I'm still not sure what your's even looks like. > > > > You could also test your actual flow rate using a large garbage can > with a > > known water volume and then measure how long it takes to fill up the > garbage > > can to a certain measured mark. 475GPH is equal to 7.9G per minute so if > > you mark off 8, 16 and 24G marks on a 30G garbage can, you could > measure if > > it takes 3 minutes to reach the 24G mark or if it's faster or slower and > > then give us the actual times if you can't calculate it out > yourself. You > > would want the top of the garbage can to be at the same height as > the top of > > your tank. > > > > Do you have a sump tank under your main tank? How much water does the > > filter reservoir hold? You would need to add that volume to your 70G > volume > > for true water volume of your system. For example, if you have a 20G > sump > > tank under a 30G display tank, you could get away with stocking a little > > heavier since you have that extra 20G of water volume. There may > still be > > territory issues but that's separate issue. > > > > Also, remind us of what you have left in your tank right now. I'm > thinking > > just a pleco but I want to be sure and we also need to know what kind of > > pleco to figure out what other fish you can have. > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right > > side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, > Month) > > > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On > > Behalf Of amejia1976 > > Sent: Friday, December 04, 2009 2:23 AM > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Planted Aquarium > > > > WOW - talk about information overload - Thanks Lenny and Amber - you > guys > > are so patient. > > > > Tank is still cycling as I have added 10 ghost shrimps and a feeder > guppy > > here and there, also put a pantyhose on the overflow box to avoid the > > suction of death and a Plexiglas canopy to cover and reduce evaporation. > > > > Info on my tank > > Rectangular > > 25in Height x 36in Wide x 18in Deep > > Trickle Wet/Dry Filter similar to this but rated @ 75g > > http://z.about.com/d/saltaquarium/1/0/r/Y/1/EshoppsWetDry.jpg > <http://z.about.com/d/saltaquarium/1/0/r/Y/1/EshoppsWetDry.jpg> > > > > Tank overflow box similar to this in tank - this is also where the > fishies > > got sucked into and up the u-tube > > http://www.aquabuys.com/miva/graphics/00000001/pca-overflow-box.jpg > <http://www.aquabuys.com/miva/graphics/00000001/pca-overflow-box.jpg> > > > > Pump > > WOW - just did some digging and found out the pump is rated @ 700gph > @ zero > > elevation to 50gph @ 12ft elevation. Currently my elevation is 4ft which > > gives a 475gph flow - this might be a bit much? Could this be why the > > suction onto the overflow box slits is so strong? > > http://www.harrisonsponds.com/pdf/magdrive_250_700.pdf > <http://www.harrisonsponds.com/pdf/magdrive_250_700.pdf> > > > > Test Results > > 11/19/09 > > Low pH @ 7.6 > > High pH @ 8.0 > > Ammonia @ 0 > > Nitrite @ 0 > > Nitrate @ 160 > > > > 11/26/09 - this are also the exact same numbers from my tap. Testing was > > done 4 days after adding 2g of tap water. Have not done testing since - > > scheduled for this Saturday Low pH @ 6.4 High pH @ 8.0 Ammonia @ 0 > Nitrite @ > > 0 Nitrate @ 0 > > > > 2 Light Ballast rated @ up to 63watts with 2 25watt bulbs > > > > Thanks again for all your assistance. > > > > Alex > > > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 45037	From: amejia1976	Date: 12/9/2009
Subject: Re: Planted Aquarium

Amber, for 11/19 test there were about 5 guppies, 5 ghost shrimp, 5 gold mollies and 1 pleco (common) for 11/26 test there were 3 ghost shrimp for 12/8 there was 1 ghost shrimp. I will be testing water on Saturday to see what the results are with the new items added today. I have not been dosing with anything other than StartRight 5ml/10gl when i've done water changes and a smidget of Wardley Tropical Flake food every 3rd day since 11/19. Alex --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, Amber Berglund <arberglund@...> wrote: > > I'm confused a bit.. You have a nitrate reading on your test results, > but you say the tank is empty, are you dosing the tank daily with ammonia? > Also your pH should NOT fluctuate like that in only a weeks time, you > definitely want to get a GH and a KH test kit (they are 2 separate test > kits). I can only guess that your pH is changing so much because you > don't have enough KH or GH to buffer the water, but I also don't know > what you have in the tank before you did those tests, and if you were > dosing with Ammonia or not. > > Amber > > > amejia1976 wrote: > > > > OK, > > > > Thanks all for the info - I have been working overnights the past few > > days and have had little time to respond/reply to your questions. > > > > To answer > > > > Amber - I am using the API master test kit for freshwater; ph, > > Ammonia, Nitrate and Nitrite. Do not have a water hardness test - > > should I get one? > > > > Test Results > > > > 11/19/09 > > Low pH @ 7.6 > > High pH @ 8.0 > > Ammonia @ 0 > > Nitrite @ 0 > > Nitrate @ 160 > > > > 11/26/09 > > Low pH @ 6.4 > > High pH @ 8.0 > > Ammonia @ 0 > > Nitrite @ 0 > > Nitrate @ 0 > > > > 12/8/09 > > pH @ 7.8 > > Ammonia @ 0 > > Nitrite @ 0 > > Nitrate @ 5ppm > > > > Lenny > > > > I am sure I can find some of those high lumens bulbs here in Orlando. > > > > As to how I came up with the 475gph - I measure the length of the > > tubing (3/4in) coming from the pump to the elbow. > > > > Sump has about 5g in there > > > > On Saturday 12/5 I did a 20% water change, cleaned the sump, tank > > walls, all sponges, tank overflow box. Did not clean or touch the > > bioballs. I cleaned as I figured with so many fish that died the > > amount of dirt was too large. I did not have my powered gravel pump > > available but did use a suction type one. Speaking of bio balls; could > > I use some of the ones dr fosters smith have that can be filled with > > carbon should I choose to not use real plants? > > > > Today I did a water test. After that came back positive I added 20 > > feeder guppies and 10 ghost shrimp ($3.00) just so I can see how > > things will work and if the nitrifying cycle would work. That is all > > the fish I have in there. I also added a screen around the overflow > > box as suggested; that seems to be working by the time I left home @ > > 1600 east coast US. > > > > The tank also has a large piece of mopani drift wood and a small one. > > Both were cured for over 3 weeks. > > > > As for the pictures I can take some. How do I post them on here? > > > > Alex > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>, "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" > > <GoldLenny@> wrote: > > > > > > See Amber's reply also and answer her questions as well. > > > > > > There should be a shield of some sort that should be in the overflow > > box on > > > the tank side, to keep fish/critters from getting sucked in. See the > > Images > > > tab and the middle image on this page. > > > > > http://www.marinedepot.com/ps_ViewItem.aspx?category=CPR_CS_Overflow_Boxes_E > > <http://www.marinedepot.com/ps_ViewItem.aspx?category=CPR_CS_Overflow_Boxes_E> > > > > > xternal_Overflow_Boxes_for_Aquariums&vendor=CPR&idProduct=CR1511&IdCategory= > > > FIOFEB&tab=2 > > > > > > There is the holey piece of plastic that is covering the intake side > > of the > > > overflow and then a sponge filter covering the external part of the > > overflow > > > so that even if a small fry should make it through the holes in the > > holey > > > plastic, it would just end up in the overflow on the outside of the > > tank and > > > could be netted back to the main tank. > > > > > > If you can't find the holey plastic material, then you should be able to > > > improvise with a filter sponge block cut to fit in your overflow intake > > > side. You could even have the sponge block sticking up above the > > overflow > > > box so fish couldn't even get into the box if they wanted to. Here's > > some > > > examples of the sponge block media. There are various pore sizes. > > > > > > > > http://www.amazon.com/ProClear-Aquatics-Sponge-Block-Pro150/dp/B0006JLUTK > > <http://www.amazon.com/ProClear-Aquatics-Sponge-Block-Pro150/dp/B0006JLUTK> > > > > > > http://www.petmountain.com/category/346/1/aquarium-foam-sponges.html > > <http://www.petmountain.com/category/346/1/aquarium-foam-sponges.html> > > > > > > > > http://www.thatpetplace.com/pet/prod/207322/product.web?gdftrk=xh23lc0p/7HDy > > <http://www.thatpetplace.com/pet/prod/207322/product.web?gdftrk=xh23lc0p/7HDy> > > > > > ~g3JgKLcxo30o9zaVSElqGwrCtL3k5jQStXmh90k5x6hluxJsJaQlulCLVfFRwZcBLslWdQq90nr > > > > > sxdOMuSt0~Qn~VrgN1~wFpZfIecnYmUJu4YTzw/uIo6aQYdzzrmG/HW4Wt73Yo1MqVRDOdMCVWZN > > > IOfJv1I5QWMxjGj53tYhyMsl3sG > > > > > > Your 25" high tank is not conducive to as many plants since you only > > have > > > two 25W fluorescent bulbs but if you shop carefully and find 25W > > Daylight > > > Bulbs that give off in excess of 2,000 lumens (I've seen where they > > can go > > > from as low as 1,250 up to 2,225 lumens) or more, you could probably get > > > away with having several varieties of low light plants. If you've > > been to > > > my blog, "Planted Tank....", you'll see my lists and links to many low > > > light, easy to grow plants that would work without the need to > > upgrade your > > > lighting. If you win the lottery, then you can upgrade your lighting > > to a > > > nice CFL fixture and have more plant options but there are dozens of > > plants > > > in the low light category. > > > > > > Like Amber said, 475GPH for a 70G tank is not excessive although it > > may be > > > on the high side for what many fish are comfortable with and many > > plants do > > > not like that kind of flow rate. Usually, if a fish doesn't like > > that kind > > > of water movement, they'll find an area with lower movement and hang > > out in > > > that area all the time. Are you seeing this? Of course, you should read > > > profiles on each of your fish to find out what kind of ecosystem > > they prefer > > > and then try to get compatible tank mates. I like the profiles on > > > http://fish.mongabay.com <http://fish.mongabay.com> as a good > > starting place as they also have a > > > paragraph called "SC" (Suggested Companions) that lists other suitable > > > tankmates that prefer similar water parameters and ecosystems. > > > > > > How did you come up with a 4' elevation and that actual 475 GPH? > > Actually, > > > the useful term for pumps, besides flow rate (GPH) is head pressure and > > > there are several factors that affect head pressure, from elbows in the > > > plumbing and other plumbing design issues like whether the right > > size pipe > > > was used and then how far the pump has to push the water back up to the > > > discharge. Can you take a picture of your tank, stand, filter and > > plumbing > > > from various angles? I'm still not sure what your's even looks like. > > > > > > You could also test your actual flow rate using a large garbage can > > with a > > > known water volume and then measure how long it takes to fill up the > > garbage > > > can to a certain measured mark. 475GPH is equal to 7.9G per minute so if > > > you mark off 8, 16 and 24G marks on a 30G garbage can, you could > > measure if > > > it takes 3 minutes to reach the 24G mark or if it's faster or slower and > > > then give us the actual times if you can't calculate it out > > yourself. You > > > would want the top of the garbage can to be at the same height as > > the top of > > > your tank. > > > > > > Do you have a sump tank under your main tank? How much water does the > > > filter reservoir hold? You would need to add that volume to your 70G > > volume > > > for true water volume of your system. For example, if you have a 20G > > sump > > > tank under a 30G display tank, you could get away with stocking a little > > > heavier since you have that extra 20G of water volume. There may > > still be > > > territory issues but that's separate issue. > > > > > > Also, remind us of what you have left in your tank right now. I'm > > thinking > > > just a pleco but I want to be sure and we also need to know what kind of > > > pleco to figure out what other fish you can have. > > > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right > > > side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, > > Month) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On > > > Behalf Of amejia1976 > > > Sent: Friday, December 04, 2009 2:23 AM > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Planted Aquarium > > > > > > WOW - talk about information overload - Thanks Lenny and Amber - you > > guys > > > are so patient. > > > > > > Tank is still cycling as I have added 10 ghost shrimps and a feeder > > guppy > > > here and there, also put a pantyhose on the overflow box to avoid the > > > suction of death and a Plexiglas canopy to cover and reduce evaporation. > > > > > > Info on my tank > > > Rectangular > > > 25in Height x 36in Wide x 18in Deep > > > Trickle Wet/Dry Filter similar to this but rated @ 75g > > > http://z.about.com/d/saltaquarium/1/0/r/Y/1/EshoppsWetDry.jpg > > <http://z.about.com/d/saltaquarium/1/0/r/Y/1/EshoppsWetDry.jpg> > > > > > > Tank overflow box similar to this in tank - this is also where the > > fishies > > > got sucked into and up the u-tube > > > http://www.aquabuys.com/miva/graphics/00000001/pca-overflow-box.jpg > > <http://www.aquabuys.com/miva/graphics/00000001/pca-overflow-box.jpg> > > > > > > Pump > > > WOW - just did some digging and found out the pump is rated @ 700gph > > @ zero > > > elevation to 50gph @ 12ft elevation. Currently my elevation is 4ft which > > > gives a 475gph flow - this might be a bit much? Could this be why the > > > suction onto the overflow box slits is so strong? > > > http://www.harrisonsponds.com/pdf/magdrive_250_700.pdf > > <http://www.harrisonsponds.com/pdf/magdrive_250_700.pdf> > > > > > > Test Results > > > 11/19/09 > > > Low pH @ 7.6 > > > High pH @ 8.0 > > > Ammonia @ 0 > > > Nitrite @ 0 > > > Nitrate @ 160 > > > > > > 11/26/09 - this are also the exact same numbers from my tap. Testing was > > > done 4 days after adding 2g of tap water. Have not done testing since - > > > scheduled for this Saturday Low pH @ 6.4 High pH @ 8.0 Ammonia @ 0 > > Nitrite @ > > > 0 Nitrate @ 0 > > > > > > 2 Light Ballast rated @ up to 63watts with 2 25watt bulbs > > > > > > Thanks again for all your assistance. > > > > > > Alex > > > > > > > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 45038	From: greyclouds99	Date: 12/9/2009
Subject: Update on my sick Angelfish

Well she's not getting any better, it's the fifth day of treatment with Minocycline. The eye is developing a necrosis on the outer edge of the eyeball itself. A friend of mine saw my fish and told me he had the exact same situation a couple of years ago, that developed exactly in the same way, eventually the fish had half its eye worn out, and fell down along with the other "healthy looking" eye, of course the fish died immediately. Sorry about the repulsive description, I had to mention it. I found this medication: SILAZON - Broad Antibiotic for fresh and salt water fish treatment, treats internal and external infections. Each capsule (500 mg) treats 15 gallons. Ingredients: Sulfadiazine Sodium, Sulfathiazole Sodium, Sulfamemidine Sodium, Folacin, Ascorbic Acid, Riboflavin. Manufactured under licence from : A.P LABORATORIES INC. USA All I want now is to save the fish's life, the eye is more popped out, the necrosis has been noticed during the last 24 hours only, and it's already surrounding about one third of the eye's outer line. Should I add this new medication? should I use salt? Obviously it's also an external infection now. Tristan

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 45039	From: greyclouds99	Date: 12/9/2009
Subject: Re: Update on my sick Angelfish

I added 3 photos capturing the injured eye from 3 different angles. The album is titled "Angelfish_Disease", please take a look to identify the problem. Tristan --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "greyclouds99" <greyclouds99@...> wrote: > > > Well she's not getting any better, it's the fifth day of treatment with Minocycline. > The eye is developing a necrosis on the outer edge of the eyeball itself. > A friend of mine saw my fish and told me he had the exact same situation a couple of years ago, that developed exactly in the same way, eventually the fish had half its eye worn out, and fell down along with the other "healthy looking" eye, of course the fish died immediately. Sorry about the repulsive description, I had to mention it. > > I found this medication: > SILAZON - Broad Antibiotic for fresh and salt water fish treatment, treats internal and external infections. Each capsule (500 mg) treats 15 gallons. > Ingredients: Sulfadiazine Sodium, Sulfathiazole Sodium, Sulfamemidine Sodium, Folacin, Ascorbic Acid, Riboflavin. > Manufactured under licence from : A.P LABORATORIES INC. USA > > > All I want now is to save the fish's life, the eye is more popped out, the necrosis has been noticed during the last 24 hours only, and it's already surrounding about one third of the eye's outer line. > Should I add this new medication? should I use salt? Obviously it's also an external infection now. > > Tristan >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 45040	From: sevenspringss@wmconnect.com	Date: 12/9/2009
Subject: Re: Update on my sick Angelfish

Tristan, From the description you give of the "SILAZON" medication, it would appear that this should be effective. I'd say it's definitely worth a try, especially since the fish is not responding to its present medication. Pulverizing your Minocycline in a plastic bag using a hammer, and using hot water to dissolve it may make it more effective until you can obtain this new medication. Ray</HTML>

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 45041	From: sevenspringss@wmconnect.com	Date: 12/9/2009
Subject: Re: Update on my sick Angelfish

Tristan, As for salt, this is often useful towards treating many external infections, even though it's not effective internally. Since this is now turning out to also be an external issue, yes, using salt at this time may be helpful in this regard. You may add up to 3 teaspoons per gallon, progressively. Add 1 teaspoon per gallon, per day, until at the end of 3 days you've reached this concentration. Don't forget, when doing partial water changes, to replace the amount of salt lost at that time -- and only the amount lost, not the full amount you added to the tank. At the end of treatment, the salt should be removed gradually, too, over several days. Ray</HTML>

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 45042	From: sevenspringss@wmconnect.com	Date: 12/9/2009
Subject: Re: Newbie, and Angelfish question

Bill, Using \\Steve's// calculator, I just realized that even those small Angels that the breeder, Paullin (from Philadelphia) was producing was no bargain for their money those days. The dime-size Angels which were going for $7.50 in 1923 were equivilent to $93.86 by 2009 terms and the quarter-size Angels he sold for $10 was like $125.15 in today's money. If you felt REAL LUCKY and bought only two dime-size fish, that would be $187.92, but if you wanted 97% assurance of getting at least one pair you'd need 6 fish -- for a total of $565.16. Did people really throw money around like that for fish??? Of course, you could try going with 4 fish if you couldn't fork out any more than $375.44. No wonder those early fish farms made $$$Millions (in today's money) <g>. At that time, there were still very many smaller hatcheries scattered around the country, mostly around cities in the northern states. Ray</HTML>

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 45043	From: Dora Smith	Date: 12/9/2009
Subject: Re: [Bulk] RE: [Bulk] RE: [AquaticLife] OK, here's my purple algae

Thanks. I did send it to someone I know of at UT and haven't heard from him. I did find someone at I think the Florida environmental protection agency helpful once. Yours, Dora Smith Austin, TX tiggernut24@... ----- Original Message ----- From: "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@...> To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Tuesday, December 08, 2009 7:25 PM Subject: [Bulk] RE: [Bulk] RE: [AquaticLife] OK, here's my purple algae As I said before, your best bet for identifying it is to have your local university biology department give it a whack. Or you could try submitting pictures to a university like UFL.edu which has an extensive list of articles on all types of fishkeeping topics. Here's a few I found with a search on http://edis.ifas.ufl.edu/ for algae. The webpage simply shows an abstract but you can download the PDF document from the Adobe PDF button near the top of the page. http://edis.ifas.ufl.edu/fa078 http://edis.ifas.ufl.edu/fa079 http://edis.ifas.ufl.edu/sg072 http://edis.ifas.ufl.edu/fa104 http://edis.ifas.ufl.edu/fa105 Here's how to contact the Fisheries and Aquatic Sciences department. http://edis.ifas.ufl.edu/departments/fisheries.html OR better yet, http://fishweb.ifas.ufl.edu/ which has a couple of email addresses listed. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Dora Smith Sent: Tuesday, December 08, 2009 5:43 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [Bulk] RE: [AquaticLife] OK, here's my purple algae Well, I want to know what it is before I consider whether to make more than cosmetic attempts to get rid of it. Yours, Dora Smith Austin, TX tiggernut24@... ----- Original Message ----- From: "bill 1433" <warrenprint@...> To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Tuesday, December 08, 2009 5:18 PM Subject: [Bulk] RE: [AquaticLife] OK, here's my purple algae -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of bill 1433 Sent: Tuesday, December 08, 2009 10:49 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] OK, here's my purple algae Len, While we are on the subject anyway and considering she may want to get rid of this stuff, maybe with the use of Hydrogen Peroxide, is there a chart or link which shows the limit to how much you can safely dose an aquarium with the fish still in it? I.E., 1 ounce to 10 gallons of water? Bill --- On Tue, 12/8/09, Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@...> wrote: ------------------------------------ ------------------------------------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the home page. Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com to receive the digest, which includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com for the No E-Mail option where you will still be able to read messages on the group and post replies. Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com to receive individual e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 45044	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 12/9/2009
Subject: Re: Update on my sick Angelfish

Here's the actual link to your album. http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife/photos/album/430314037/pic/list Is that bulb/sack coming out from behind the eye or is it including the entire eyeball? In the front view, it looks like it's the entire eye but the side views look like it's a fluid filled sack coming out the back of the eye socket and filling up with fluid. If it's the latter, then it's not likely Pop-Eye, at least not that I'm familiar with. I've only seen Pop-Eye where the entire eye bulb is pushed out from behind and blows up several times its normal size. The good news is that the angelfish is out and about. Normally, when they are in really bad shape, they'll be hiding or just sitting on the bottom. I'm hoping Ray appears with recommendations about this new medication. The basic ingredients sounds similar but not exactly like a fish medication called API's Triple Sulfa. You can read about Triple Sulfa here... it's at the top of the page. http://www.americanaquariumproducts.com/AquariumMedication2.html Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of greyclouds99 Sent: Wednesday, December 09, 2009 4:07 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Update on my sick Angelfish I added 3 photos capturing the injured eye from 3 different angles. The album is titled "Angelfish_Disease", please take a look to identify the problem. Tristan --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "greyclouds99" <greyclouds99@...> wrote: > > > Well she's not getting any better, it's the fifth day of treatment with Minocycline. > The eye is developing a necrosis on the outer edge of the eyeball itself. > A friend of mine saw my fish and told me he had the exact same situation a couple of years ago, that developed exactly in the same way, eventually the fish had half its eye worn out, and fell down along with the other "healthy looking" eye, of course the fish died immediately. Sorry about the repulsive description, I had to mention it. > > I found this medication: > SILAZON - Broad Antibiotic for fresh and salt water fish treatment, treats internal and external infections. Each capsule (500 mg) treats 15 gallons. > Ingredients: Sulfadiazine Sodium, Sulfathiazole Sodium, Sulfamemidine Sodium, Folacin, Ascorbic Acid, Riboflavin. > Manufactured under licence from : A.P LABORATORIES INC. USA > > > All I want now is to save the fish's life, the eye is more popped out, the necrosis has been noticed during the last 24 hours only, and it's already surrounding about one third of the eye's outer line. > Should I add this new medication? should I use salt? Obviously it's also an external infection now. > > Tristan

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 45045	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 12/9/2009
Subject: Re: Update on my sick Angelfish

Oops.. guess I should have read more replies before I replied a few minutes ago. I see that Ray has appeared. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of sevenspringss@... Sent: Wednesday, December 09, 2009 5:21 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Update on my sick Angelfish Tristan, From the description you give of the "SILAZON" medication, it would appear that this should be effective. I'd say it's definitely worth a try, especially since the fish is not responding to its present medication. Pulverizing your Minocycline in a plastic bag using a hammer, and using hot water to dissolve it may make it more effective until you can obtain this new medication. Ray</HTML>

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 45046	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 12/9/2009
Subject: Re: Planted Aquarium

I see then, that helps me understand a bit ;) LOL. That 1 ghost shrimp wouldn't keep your tank cycled I'm sure, but perhaps some of the left over food/detritus may have helped keep the tank cycling. I'm still worried about your pH crashing and killing all your new fish right away though. Also when you add fish you shouldn't add so many at once, add just 3-4 at most at a time, wait about a week for the cycle to catch up, then add more. I know it's hard to keep yourself from filling the tank all at once, but you pretty much just started a whole new cycle by adding so many fish at once. So keep an eye on your Ammonia, I would check it every few days (minimum), you may have to do partial water changes (PWC) every few days to keep the ammonia low (so it doesn't poison your fish), it would also be good to check your nitrItes regularly too, as that's the next step of the cycle after Ammonia and it can also poison your fish. Hopefully you still have some nitrifying bacteria in your tank so that it'll cycle faster than starting from scratch. Let us know if anything odd happens right away (fish gasping at the surface, acting sluggish, cloudy water, etc), that way we can help you fix the problem hopefully before you lose any fish (no promises but we try, LOL). Amber amejia1976 wrote: > > Amber, > > for 11/19 test there were about 5 guppies, 5 ghost shrimp, 5 gold > mollies and 1 pleco (common) > > for 11/26 test there were 3 ghost shrimp > > for 12/8 there was 1 ghost shrimp. I will be testing water on Saturday > to see what the results are with the new items added today. > > I have not been dosing with anything other than StartRight 5ml/10gl > when i've done water changes and a smidget of Wardley Tropical Flake > food every 3rd day since 11/19. > > Alex > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>, Amber Berglund > <arberglund@...> wrote: > > > > I'm confused a bit.. You have a nitrate reading on your test results, > > but you say the tank is empty, are you dosing the tank daily with > ammonia? > > Also your pH should NOT fluctuate like that in only a weeks time, you > > definitely want to get a GH and a KH test kit (they are 2 separate test > > kits). I can only guess that your pH is changing so much because you > > don't have enough KH or GH to buffer the water, but I also don't know > > what you have in the tank before you did those tests, and if you were > > dosing with Ammonia or not. > > > > Amber > > > > > > amejia1976 wrote: > > > > > > OK, > > > > > > Thanks all for the info - I have been working overnights the past few > > > days and have had little time to respond/reply to your questions. > > > > > > To answer > > > > > > Amber - I am using the API master test kit for freshwater; ph, > > > Ammonia, Nitrate and Nitrite. Do not have a water hardness test - > > > should I get one? > > > > > > Test Results > > > > > > 11/19/09 > > > Low pH @ 7.6 > > > High pH @ 8.0 > > > Ammonia @ 0 > > > Nitrite @ 0 > > > Nitrate @ 160 > > > > > > 11/26/09 > > > Low pH @ 6.4 > > > High pH @ 8.0 > > > Ammonia @ 0 > > > Nitrite @ 0 > > > Nitrate @ 0 > > > > > > 12/8/09 > > > pH @ 7.8 > > > Ammonia @ 0 > > > Nitrite @ 0 > > > Nitrate @ 5ppm > > > > > > Lenny > > > > > > I am sure I can find some of those high lumens bulbs here in Orlando. > > > > > > As to how I came up with the 475gph - I measure the length of the > > > tubing (3/4in) coming from the pump to the elbow. > > > > > > Sump has about 5g in there > > > > > > On Saturday 12/5 I did a 20% water change, cleaned the sump, tank > > > walls, all sponges, tank overflow box. Did not clean or touch the > > > bioballs. I cleaned as I figured with so many fish that died the > > > amount of dirt was too large. I did not have my powered gravel pump > > > available but did use a suction type one. Speaking of bio balls; > could > > > I use some of the ones dr fosters smith have that can be filled with > > > carbon should I choose to not use real plants? > > > > > > Today I did a water test. After that came back positive I added 20 > > > feeder guppies and 10 ghost shrimp ($3.00) just so I can see how > > > things will work and if the nitrifying cycle would work. That is all > > > the fish I have in there. I also added a screen around the overflow > > > box as suggested; that seems to be working by the time I left home @ > > > 1600 east coast US. > > > > > > The tank also has a large piece of mopani drift wood and a small one. > > > Both were cured for over 3 weeks. > > > > > > As for the pictures I can take some. How do I post them on here? > > > > > > Alex > > > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>, "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" > > > <GoldLenny@> wrote: > > > > > > > > See Amber's reply also and answer her questions as well. > > > > > > > > There should be a shield of some sort that should be in the > overflow > > > box on > > > > the tank side, to keep fish/critters from getting sucked in. See > the > > > Images > > > > tab and the middle image on this page. > > > > > > > > http://www.marinedepot.com/ps_ViewItem.aspx?category=CPR_CS_Overflow_Boxes_E > <http://www.marinedepot.com/ps_ViewItem.aspx?category=CPR_CS_Overflow_Boxes_E> > > > > > <http://www.marinedepot.com/ps_ViewItem.aspx?category=CPR_CS_Overflow_Boxes_E > <http://www.marinedepot.com/ps_ViewItem.aspx?category=CPR_CS_Overflow_Boxes_E>> > > > > > > > > xternal_Overflow_Boxes_for_Aquariums&vendor=CPR&idProduct=CR1511&IdCategory= > > > > FIOFEB&tab=2 > > > > > > > > There is the holey piece of plastic that is covering the intake > side > > > of the > > > > overflow and then a sponge filter covering the external part of the > > > overflow > > > > so that even if a small fry should make it through the holes in the > > > holey > > > > plastic, it would just end up in the overflow on the outside of the > > > tank and > > > > could be netted back to the main tank. > > > > > > > > If you can't find the holey plastic material, then you should be > able to > > > > improvise with a filter sponge block cut to fit in your overflow > intake > > > > side. You could even have the sponge block sticking up above the > > > overflow > > > > box so fish couldn't even get into the box if they wanted to. > Here's > > > some > > > > examples of the sponge block media. There are various pore sizes. > > > > > > > > > > > > http://www.amazon.com/ProClear-Aquatics-Sponge-Block-Pro150/dp/B0006JLUTK > <http://www.amazon.com/ProClear-Aquatics-Sponge-Block-Pro150/dp/B0006JLUTK> > > > > > <http://www.amazon.com/ProClear-Aquatics-Sponge-Block-Pro150/dp/B0006JLUTK > <http://www.amazon.com/ProClear-Aquatics-Sponge-Block-Pro150/dp/B0006JLUTK>> > > > > > > > > > http://www.petmountain.com/category/346/1/aquarium-foam-sponges.html > <http://www.petmountain.com/category/346/1/aquarium-foam-sponges.html> > > > > <http://www.petmountain.com/category/346/1/aquarium-foam-sponges.html > <http://www.petmountain.com/category/346/1/aquarium-foam-sponges.html>> > > > > > > > > > > > > http://www.thatpetplace.com/pet/prod/207322/product.web?gdftrk=xh23lc0p/7HDy > <http://www.thatpetplace.com/pet/prod/207322/product.web?gdftrk=xh23lc0p/7HDy> > > > > > <http://www.thatpetplace.com/pet/prod/207322/product.web?gdftrk=xh23lc0p/7HDy > <http://www.thatpetplace.com/pet/prod/207322/product.web?gdftrk=xh23lc0p/7HDy>> > > > > > > > > ~g3JgKLcxo30o9zaVSElqGwrCtL3k5jQStXmh90k5x6hluxJsJaQlulCLVfFRwZcBLslWdQq90nr > > > > > > > > sxdOMuSt0~Qn~VrgN1~wFpZfIecnYmUJu4YTzw/uIo6aQYdzzrmG/HW4Wt73Yo1MqVRDOdMCVWZN > > > > IOfJv1I5QWMxjGj53tYhyMsl3sG > > > > > > > > Your 25" high tank is not conducive to as many plants since you > only > > > have > > > > two 25W fluorescent bulbs but if you shop carefully and find 25W > > > Daylight > > > > Bulbs that give off in excess of 2,000 lumens (I've seen where they > > > can go > > > > from as low as 1,250 up to 2,225 lumens) or more, you could > probably get > > > > away with having several varieties of low light plants. If you've > > > been to > > > > my blog, "Planted Tank....", you'll see my lists and links to > many low > > > > light, easy to grow plants that would work without the need to > > > upgrade your > > > > lighting. If you win the lottery, then you can upgrade your > lighting > > > to a > > > > nice CFL fixture and have more plant options but there are > dozens of > > > plants > > > > in the low light category. > > > > > > > > Like Amber said, 475GPH for a 70G tank is not excessive although it > > > may be > > > > on the high side for what many fish are comfortable with and many > > > plants do > > > > not like that kind of flow rate. Usually, if a fish doesn't like > > > that kind > > > > of water movement, they'll find an area with lower movement and > hang > > > out in > > > > that area all the time. Are you seeing this? Of course, you > should read > > > > profiles on each of your fish to find out what kind of ecosystem > > > they prefer > > > > and then try to get compatible tank mates. I like the profiles on > > > > http://fish.mongabay.com <http://fish.mongabay.com> > <http://fish.mongabay.com <http://fish.mongabay.com>> as a good > > > starting place as they also have a > > > > paragraph called "SC" (Suggested Companions) that lists other > suitable > > > > tankmates that prefer similar water parameters and ecosystems. > > > > > > > > How did you come up with a 4' elevation and that actual 475 GPH? > > > Actually, > > > > the useful term for pumps, besides flow rate (GPH) is head > pressure and > > > > there are several factors that affect head pressure, from elbows > in the > > > > plumbing and other plumbing design issues like whether the right > > > size pipe > > > > was used and then how far the pump has to push the water back up > to the > > > > discharge. Can you take a picture of your tank, stand, filter and > > > plumbing > > > > from various angles? I'm still not sure what your's even looks like. > > > > > > > > You could also test your actual flow rate using a large garbage can > > > with a > > > > known water volume and then measure how long it takes to fill up > the > > > garbage > > > > can to a certain measured mark. 475GPH is equal to 7.9G per > minute so if > > > > you mark off 8, 16 and 24G marks on a 30G garbage can, you could > > > measure if > > > > it takes 3 minutes to reach the 24G mark or if it's faster or > slower and > > > > then give us the actual times if you can't calculate it out > > > yourself. You > > > > would want the top of the garbage can to be at the same height as > > > the top of > > > > your tank. > > > > > > > > Do you have a sump tank under your main tank? How much water > does the > > > > filter reservoir hold? You would need to add that volume to your > 70G > > > volume > > > > for true water volume of your system. For example, if you have a > 20G > > > sump > > > > tank under a 30G display tank, you could get away with stocking > a little > > > > heavier since you have that extra 20G of water volume. There may > > > still be > > > > territory issues but that's separate issue. > > > > > > > > Also, remind us of what you have left in your tank right now. I'm > > > thinking > > > > just a pleco but I want to be sure and we also need to know what > kind of > > > > pleco to figure out what other fish you can have. > > > > > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>> > > > > (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on > the right > > > > side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, > > > Month) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On > > > > Behalf Of amejia1976 > > > > Sent: Friday, December 04, 2009 2:23 AM > > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Planted Aquarium > > > > > > > > WOW - talk about information overload - Thanks Lenny and Amber - > you > > > guys > > > > are so patient. > > > > > > > > Tank is still cycling as I have added 10 ghost shrimps and a feeder > > > guppy > > > > here and there, also put a pantyhose on the overflow box to > avoid the > > > > suction of death and a Plexiglas canopy to cover and reduce > evaporation. > > > > > > > > Info on my tank > > > > Rectangular > > > > 25in Height x 36in Wide x 18in Deep > > > > Trickle Wet/Dry Filter similar to this but rated @ 75g > > > > http://z.about.com/d/saltaquarium/1/0/r/Y/1/EshoppsWetDry.jpg > <http://z.about.com/d/saltaquarium/1/0/r/Y/1/EshoppsWetDry.jpg> > > > <http://z.about.com/d/saltaquarium/1/0/r/Y/1/EshoppsWetDry.jpg > <http://z.about.com/d/saltaquarium/1/0/r/Y/1/EshoppsWetDry.jpg>> > > > > > > > > Tank overflow box similar to this in tank - this is also where the > > > fishies > > > > got sucked into and up the u-tube > > > > > http://www.aquabuys.com/miva/graphics/00000001/pca-overflow-box.jpg > <http://www.aquabuys.com/miva/graphics/00000001/pca-overflow-box.jpg> > > > > <http://www.aquabuys.com/miva/graphics/00000001/pca-overflow-box.jpg > <http://www.aquabuys.com/miva/graphics/00000001/pca-overflow-box.jpg>> > > > > > > > > Pump > > > > WOW - just did some digging and found out the pump is rated @ > 700gph > > > @ zero > > > > elevation to 50gph @ 12ft elevation. Currently my elevation is > 4ft which > > > > gives a 475gph flow - this might be a bit much? Could this be > why the > > > > suction onto the overflow box slits is so strong? > > > > http://www.harrisonsponds.com/pdf/magdrive_250_700.pdf > <http://www.harrisonsponds.com/pdf/magdrive_250_700.pdf> > > > <http://www.harrisonsponds.com/pdf/magdrive_250_700.pdf > <http://www.harrisonsponds.com/pdf/magdrive_250_700.pdf>> > > > > > > > > Test Results > > > > 11/19/09 > > > > Low pH @ 7.6 > > > > High pH @ 8.0 > > > > Ammonia @ 0 > > > > Nitrite @ 0 > > > > Nitrate @ 160 > > > > > > > > 11/26/09 - this are also the exact same numbers from my tap. > Testing was > > > > done 4 days after adding 2g of tap water. Have not done testing > since - > > > > scheduled for this Saturday Low pH @ 6.4 High pH @ 8.0 Ammonia @ 0 > > > Nitrite @ > > > > 0 Nitrate @ 0 > > > > > > > > 2 Light Ballast rated @ up to 63watts with 2 25watt bulbs > > > > > > > > Thanks again for all your assistance. > > > > > > > > Alex > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 45047	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 12/9/2009
Subject: Re: Planted Aquarium

Your 11/26/09 test results looks like something went dramatically wrong with your nitrogen cycle or your test results. While the ammonia and nitrite should be 0.0ppm, your nitrates should have some kind of reading... especially if you had 160ppm the week before. Even if you did a few 25% PWC's, it would only reduce the 160ppm but not down to 0.0ppm. For posting photos in the group's albums, go to the group's home page, http://groups.yahoo.com/group/aquaticlife and click on the Photos button/link, then there should be instructions. I'll be honest and admit I do not use Yahoo Group's for hosting my online photo albums. I like using either Flickr, Webshots or Photobucket and then you can just include a link. I hesitate to recommend Flickr sometimes, now that they are owned by Yahoo, although you do get a free account with every Yahoo ID. The reason, I do not like using Yahoo services for online storage is that they have a history of closing down services. Years ago, every Yahoo ID had a Photo album associated with it and Yahoo shut that down when they could have just migrated everything over to a Flickr account linked to the same ID. Yes, Yahoo notified people but still, thousands of people lost all their photos. Next, Yahoo had Geocities, which was a free website service for newbies, which I was and still am for website design. After many years and millions of Geocities websites, they shut that down in October of this year and thousands, if not millions of people lost their websites, although they can still find them on the Internet Archive Wayback Machine which archives every website that is on the web for at least a short period of time. Yahoo also shut down the Yahoo 360 Profiles, which was their first attempt at social networking. I always worry that they will shut down Yahoo Group's one day. Don't think it can happen??? Well, MSN recently shut down all of their group's without providing a reasonable way of migrating all the information and members over to a new group system. TONS of information was lost, but for the Internet Archive Wayback Machine at http://www.archive.org The same thing has also happened with AOL when they shut down their member websites. Yes, the same thing could happen with Webshots or Photobucket which is why it's a good idea to have the same photos hosted on two different websites... that's what I do, just in case... as well as having them backed up on my computer and an automatic online backup service. I use https://mozy.com/?code=SY4ZSI since it's free for 2.5GB of files and has an unlimited plan for under $5.00 a month. I've tried Mozy and Carbonite but I like Mozy better... and Carbonite does not have a free version, only a trial version. At least with Mozy, folks can back up their most important 2.5GB of files for an unlimited time period and not have to pay if they choose not to upgrade to a paid version. They also have their little referral program where folks get added free storage when referring people to Mozy. I have a paid account on my main computer and the free version on another computer and I'm up to 6.5GB of free online storage, which is plenty enough for documents and photos but not for music and videos if folks have lots of them. MSN has a couple of free services for online backup also but it's not automatic like Mozy. The automatic online backup is done on a scheduled basis or whenever the computer is not being heavily used. I have mine set to do backups every night. OK.. back to fish. Why did you go with the 20 feeder guppies? There are much better, safer and humane ways to Fishless Cycle which does not harm the fish. A 99 cents bottle of plain ammonia (Ace Hardware) can be used for fishless cycling a tank instead of using fish... especially feeder fish which might have health issues that you will be bringing into your tank. I also hope the shrimp make it also. I've never heard of anyone using live shrimp to cycle a tank... well, except for years ago, folks would actually throw a piece of normal shrimp into their tank and let it rot away until it put out ammonia and fishless cycled the tank. I'm not sure if this is where you got the idea of using "shrimp"... but they shouldn't have been live shrimp, IMO. Of course, if I couldn't find plain ammonia, then the old-fashioned "pee in the tank" method works fine also. Just be careful up on that ladder... and make sure you don't have to go so bad that you can't stop after an ounce or two. ;-) Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of amejia1976 Sent: Tuesday, December 08, 2009 9:19 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Planted Aquarium OK, Thanks all for the info - I have been working overnights the past few days and have had little time to respond/reply to your questions. To answer Amber - I am using the API master test kit for freshwater; ph, Ammonia, Nitrate and Nitrite. Do not have a water hardness test - should I get one? Test Results 11/19/09 Low pH @ 7.6 High pH @ 8.0 Ammonia @ 0 Nitrite @ 0 Nitrate @ 160 11/26/09 Low pH @ 6.4 High pH @ 8.0 Ammonia @ 0 Nitrite @ 0 Nitrate @ 0 12/8/09 pH @ 7.8 Ammonia @ 0 Nitrite @ 0 Nitrate @ 5ppm Lenny I am sure I can find some of those high lumens bulbs here in Orlando. As to how I came up with the 475gph - I measure the length of the tubing (3/4in) coming from the pump to the elbow. Sump has about 5g in there On Saturday 12/5 I did a 20% water change, cleaned the sump, tank walls, all sponges, tank overflow box. Did not clean or touch the bioballs. I cleaned as I figured with so many fish that died the amount of dirt was too large. I did not have my powered gravel pump available but did use a suction type one. Speaking of bio balls; could I use some of the ones dr fosters smith have that can be filled with carbon should I choose to not use real plants? Today I did a water test. After that came back positive I added 20 feeder guppies and 10 ghost shrimp ($3.00) just so I can see how things will work and if the nitrifying cycle would work. That is all the fish I have in there. I also added a screen around the overflow box as suggested; that seems to be working by the time I left home @ 1600 east coast US. The tank also has a large piece of mopani drift wood and a small one. Both were cured for over 3 weeks. As for the pictures I can take some. How do I post them on here? Alex --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@...> wrote: > > See Amber's reply also and answer her questions as well. > > There should be a shield of some sort that should be in the overflow > box on the tank side, to keep fish/critters from getting sucked in. > See the Images tab and the middle image on this page. > http://www.marinedepot.com/ps_ViewItem.aspx?category=CPR_CS_Overflow_B > oxes_E > xternal_Overflow_Boxes_for_Aquariums&vendor=CPR&idProduct=CR1511&IdCat > egory= > FIOFEB&tab=2 > > There is the holey piece of plastic that is covering the intake side > of the overflow and then a sponge filter covering the external part of > the overflow so that even if a small fry should make it through the > holes in the holey plastic, it would just end up in the overflow on > the outside of the tank and could be netted back to the main tank. > > If you can't find the holey plastic material, then you should be able > to improvise with a filter sponge block cut to fit in your overflow > intake side. You could even have the sponge block sticking up above > the overflow box so fish couldn't even get into the box if they wanted > to. Here's some examples of the sponge block media. There are various pore sizes. > > http://www.amazon.com/ProClear-Aquatics-Sponge-Block-Pro150/dp/B0006JL > UTK > > http://www.petmountain.com/category/346/1/aquarium-foam-sponges.html > > http://www.thatpetplace.com/pet/prod/207322/product.web?gdftrk=xh23lc0 > p/7HDy > ~g3JgKLcxo30o9zaVSElqGwrCtL3k5jQStXmh90k5x6hluxJsJaQlulCLVfFRwZcBLslWd > Qq90nr > sxdOMuSt0~Qn~VrgN1~wFpZfIecnYmUJu4YTzw/uIo6aQYdzzrmG/HW4Wt73Yo1MqVRDOd > MCVWZN > IOfJv1I5QWMxjGj53tYhyMsl3sG > > Your 25" high tank is not conducive to as many plants since you only > have two 25W fluorescent bulbs but if you shop carefully and find 25W > Daylight Bulbs that give off in excess of 2,000 lumens (I've seen > where they can go from as low as 1,250 up to 2,225 lumens) or more, > you could probably get away with having several varieties of low light > plants. If you've been to my blog, "Planted Tank....", you'll see my > lists and links to many low light, easy to grow plants that would work > without the need to upgrade your lighting. If you win the lottery, > then you can upgrade your lighting to a nice CFL fixture and have more > plant options but there are dozens of plants in the low light category. > > Like Amber said, 475GPH for a 70G tank is not excessive although it > may be on the high side for what many fish are comfortable with and > many plants do not like that kind of flow rate. Usually, if a fish > doesn't like that kind of water movement, they'll find an area with lower movement and hang out in > that area all the time. Are you seeing this? Of course, you should read > profiles on each of your fish to find out what kind of ecosystem they > prefer and then try to get compatible tank mates. I like the profiles > on http://fish.mongabay.com as a good starting place as they also have > a paragraph called "SC" (Suggested Companions) that lists other > suitable tankmates that prefer similar water parameters and ecosystems. > > How did you come up with a 4' elevation and that actual 475 GPH? > Actually, the useful term for pumps, besides flow rate (GPH) is head > pressure and there are several factors that affect head pressure, from > elbows in the plumbing and other plumbing design issues like whether > the right size pipe was used and then how far the pump has to push the > water back up to the discharge. Can you take a picture of your tank, > stand, filter and plumbing from various angles? I'm still not sure what your's even looks like. > > You could also test your actual flow rate using a large garbage can > with a known water volume and then measure how long it takes to fill > up the garbage can to a certain measured mark. 475GPH is equal to > 7.9G per minute so if you mark off 8, 16 and 24G marks on a 30G > garbage can, you could measure if it takes 3 minutes to reach the 24G > mark or if it's faster or slower and then give us the actual times if > you can't calculate it out yourself. You would want the top of the > garbage can to be at the same height as the top of your tank. > > Do you have a sump tank under your main tank? How much water does the > filter reservoir hold? You would need to add that volume to your 70G > volume for true water volume of your system. For example, if you have > a 20G sump tank under a 30G display tank, you could get away with > stocking a little heavier since you have that extra 20G of water > volume. There may still be territory issues but that's separate issue. > > Also, remind us of what you have left in your tank right now. I'm > thinking just a pleco but I want to be sure and we also need to know > what kind of pleco to figure out what other fish you can have. > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles > referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically > under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) > > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] > On Behalf Of amejia1976 > Sent: Friday, December 04, 2009 2:23 AM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Planted Aquarium > > WOW - talk about information overload - Thanks Lenny and Amber - you > guys are so patient. > > Tank is still cycling as I have added 10 ghost shrimps and a feeder > guppy here and there, also put a pantyhose on the overflow box to > avoid the suction of death and a Plexiglas canopy to cover and reduce evaporation. > > Info on my tank > Rectangular > 25in Height x 36in Wide x 18in Deep > Trickle Wet/Dry Filter similar to this but rated @ 75g > http://z.about.com/d/saltaquarium/1/0/r/Y/1/EshoppsWetDry.jpg > > Tank overflow box similar to this in tank - this is also where the > fishies got sucked into and up the u-tube > http://www.aquabuys.com/miva/graphics/00000001/pca-overflow-box.jpg > > Pump > WOW - just did some digging and found out the pump is rated @ 700gph @ > zero elevation to 50gph @ 12ft elevation. Currently my elevation is > 4ft which gives a 475gph flow - this might be a bit much? Could this > be why the suction onto the overflow box slits is so strong? > http://www.harrisonsponds.com/pdf/magdrive_250_700.pdf > > Test Results > 11/19/09 > Low pH @ 7.6 > High pH @ 8.0 > Ammonia @ 0 > Nitrite @ 0 > Nitrate @ 160 > > 11/26/09 - this are also the exact same numbers from my tap. Testing > was done 4 days after adding 2g of tap water. Have not done testing > since - scheduled for this Saturday Low pH @ 6.4 High pH @ 8.0 Ammonia > @ 0 Nitrite @ 0 Nitrate @ 0 > > 2 Light Ballast rated @ up to 63watts with 2 25watt bulbs > > Thanks again for all your assistance. > > Alex

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 45048	From: bill 1433	Date: 12/9/2009
Subject: Re: Newbie, and Angelfish question

I think you may have me confused with "Benjamin Guggenheim", the millionaire?  He went down on the Titanic in April 1912!   That's a lot for fish no matter whose calculator you use!   Bill --- On Wed, 12/9/09, sevenspringss@... <sevenspringss@...> wrote: From: sevenspringss@... <sevenspringss@...> Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Newbie, and Angelfish question To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Date: Wednesday, December 9, 2009, 8:35 AM Bill,  Using \\Steve's// calculator, I just realized that even those small Angels that the breeder, Paullin (from Philadelphia) was producing was no bargain for their money those days.  The dime-size Angels which were going for $7.50 in 1923 were equivilent to $93.86 by 2009 terms and the quarter-size Angels he sold for $10 was like $125.15 in today's money.  If you felt REAL LUCKY and bought only two dime-size fish, that would be $187.92, but if you wanted 97% assurance of getting at least one pair you'd need 6 fish -- for a total of $565.16.  Did people really throw money around like that for fish???  Of course, you could try going with 4 fish if you couldn't fork out any more than $375.44.  No wonder those early fish farms made $$$Millions (in today's money) <g>.  At that time, there were still very many smaller hatcheries scattered around the country, mostly around cities in the northern states.  Ray</HTML> ------------------------------------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the home page.  Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com to receive the digest, which includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com for the No E-Mail option where you will still be able to read messages on the group and post replies. Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com to receive individual e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 45049	From: sevenspringss@wmconnect.com	Date: 12/9/2009
Subject: Re: Update on my sick Angelfish

Tristan, Continuing with what I had just posted, and adding to Lenny's remarks, I too feel this may not be what's normally diagnosed as "Pop-Eye" (Exophthalmus) as I've never seen this condition develop as a sack coming out from behind the eye either. Instead, just as Lenny describes, I've always seen it as the eyeball itself swelling to several times its normal size from the build-up of fluids within it -- but nothing that would push the eyeball out as a separate sack. Of course, while this sack would seem to be a manifestation of some other malady, there's nothing to say that Pop-Eye could not be accompanying this other malady. This medication you refer to as "SILAZON" seems quite reminiscent of API's (Aquarium Pharmaceutical's) Triple-Sulfa too, just as it reminded Lenny of. I do note two differences though; besides the same Sulfathiazole, Triple-Sulfa contains Sulfamethazine and Sulfacetamide, rather than the Sulfadiazine and Sulfamemidine that SILAZON uses. I don't know how significant this is, or how differently the one medication may behave from the other (or even if it does), as I'm not a chemist. Often, different manufacturers use similar yet different names for the same medications, so I don't know if in fact these are all the same ingredients or not. Maybe Lenny could find some links to these particular sulfa drugs to research any similarities between them. As you described this SILAZON as treating both externally and internally, I found this to be of very possible extreme benefit in treating this (these?) maladie(s), and recommended its use based on your description of its activity. I'm trusting that it still will be. However, I wish to point out that to the best of my knowledge, the Triple-Sulfa that both Lenny and I are most familiar with does not treat for internal issues; it is not readily absorbable internally. Additionally, while Triple Sulfa is often described as a broad-spectrum medication, this IS one of the few such identified medications that primarily ONLY treat against Gram-Negative bacteria, and very FEW Gram-Positive pathogens. Likewise, it does NOT treat anaerobic bacteria such as Pseudomonas or Aeromonas as would cause Pop-Eye (a Gram-Positive pathogen). I do hope that this SILAZON would be effective against this though, if this (Pop-Eye) is part of what's affecting the eye. I am reminded too, that this disease may be caused by Tetrahymena, a ciliated Protozoan resembling a similar Ciliate -- Ichthyophthirius (Ich). Coincidentally, in the aquarium, it resides in organic material at the bottom. It manifests itself as Exophthalmia -- a swelled, popped out eye similar to the more frequently encountered Pop-Eye disease. Unfortunately, there is no known cure for this. Ray [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 45050	From: sevenspringss@wmconnect.com	Date: 12/9/2009
Subject: Re: The Aquarium Magazine, was - Newbie, and Angelfish question

\\Steve//, I just checked out today's emails from my standing eBay searches -- "The Aquarium" magazine being one of them. Sure enough, when I opened this latest find, there was an auction for four 1937 issues of "The Aquarium" (Jan., Feb., Apr., and Nov.). Fortunately, I already happen to have these issues, but I thought you might be interested -- eBay auction number 260520624005. The Seller is asking only $599.00 for the lot, as the starting bid! He must be on crack! If anyone goes for that "deal," I have a bridge that I could part with at a bargain price. Ray [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 45051	From: amejia1976	Date: 12/9/2009
Subject: Re: Planted Aquarium

Test results 12/9 (Today) pH @ 7.8 Ammonia @ 0 Nitrite @ 0 Nitrate @ 5ppm These are the same results as yesterday - exactly 24 hrs later - As to why I picked feeder guppies and shrimp - I figured if any of the guppies made it it was a good thing and the shrimp so something could cleaup the mess if the guppies did not make it. Now the new issue is the mopani wood - there are white spot on it - I had it curing for 3 weeks before adding it to the tank but I added it while I was cycling the tank the first time a few months ago. I am really thinking of going and getting the power filter I was talking about - the one I have in the 10g tank has done a good jon for the last 4 years. :) --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@...> wrote: > > Your 11/26/09 test results looks like something went dramatically wrong with > your nitrogen cycle or your test results. While the ammonia and nitrite > should be 0.0ppm, your nitrates should have some kind of reading... > especially if you had 160ppm the week before. Even if you did a few 25% > PWC's, it would only reduce the 160ppm but not down to 0.0ppm. > > For posting photos in the group's albums, go to the group's home page, > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/aquaticlife and click on the Photos > button/link, then there should be instructions. I'll be honest and admit I > do not use Yahoo Group's for hosting my online photo albums. I like using > either Flickr, Webshots or Photobucket and then you can just include a link. > > > I hesitate to recommend Flickr sometimes, now that they are owned by Yahoo, > although you do get a free account with every Yahoo ID. The reason, I do > not like using Yahoo services for online storage is that they have a history > of closing down services. Years ago, every Yahoo ID had a Photo album > associated with it and Yahoo shut that down when they could have just > migrated everything over to a Flickr account linked to the same ID. Yes, > Yahoo notified people but still, thousands of people lost all their photos. > Next, Yahoo had Geocities, which was a free website service for newbies, > which I was and still am for website design. After many years and millions > of Geocities websites, they shut that down in October of this year and > thousands, if not millions of people lost their websites, although they can > still find them on the Internet Archive Wayback Machine which archives every > website that is on the web for at least a short period of time. Yahoo also > shut down the Yahoo 360 Profiles, which was their first attempt at social > networking. I always worry that they will shut down Yahoo Group's one day. > Don't think it can happen??? Well, MSN recently shut down all of their > group's without providing a reasonable way of migrating all the information > and members over to a new group system. TONS of information was lost, but > for the Internet Archive Wayback Machine at http://www.archive.org The same > thing has also happened with AOL when they shut down their member websites. > Yes, the same thing could happen with Webshots or Photobucket which is why > it's a good idea to have the same photos hosted on two different websites... > that's what I do, just in case... as well as having them backed up on my > computer and an automatic online backup service. I use > https://mozy.com/?code=SY4ZSI since it's free for 2.5GB of files and has an > unlimited plan for under $5.00 a month. I've tried Mozy and Carbonite but I > like Mozy better... and Carbonite does not have a free version, only a trial > version. At least with Mozy, folks can back up their most important 2.5GB > of files for an unlimited time period and not have to pay if they choose not > to upgrade to a paid version. They also have their little referral program > where folks get added free storage when referring people to Mozy. I have a > paid account on my main computer and the free version on another computer > and I'm up to 6.5GB of free online storage, which is plenty enough for > documents and photos but not for music and videos if folks have lots of > them. MSN has a couple of free services for online backup also but it's not > automatic like Mozy. The automatic online backup is done on a scheduled > basis or whenever the computer is not being heavily used. I have mine set > to do backups every night. > > OK.. back to fish. > > Why did you go with the 20 feeder guppies? There are much better, safer and > humane ways to Fishless Cycle which does not harm the fish. A 99 cents > bottle of plain ammonia (Ace Hardware) can be used for fishless cycling a > tank instead of using fish... especially feeder fish which might have health > issues that you will be bringing into your tank. I also hope the shrimp > make it also. I've never heard of anyone using live shrimp to cycle a > tank... well, except for years ago, folks would actually throw a piece of > normal shrimp into their tank and let it rot away until it put out ammonia > and fishless cycled the tank. I'm not sure if this is where you got the > idea of using "shrimp"... but they shouldn't have been live shrimp, IMO. Of > course, if I couldn't find plain ammonia, then the old-fashioned "pee in the > tank" method works fine also. Just be careful up on that ladder... and make > sure you don't have to go so bad that you can't stop after an ounce or two. > ;-) > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right > side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) > > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On > Behalf Of amejia1976 > Sent: Tuesday, December 08, 2009 9:19 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Planted Aquarium > > OK, > > Thanks all for the info - I have been working overnights the past few days > and have had little time to respond/reply to your questions. > > To answer > > Amber - I am using the API master test kit for freshwater; ph, Ammonia, > Nitrate and Nitrite. Do not have a water hardness test - should I get one? > > Test Results > > 11/19/09 > Low pH @ 7.6 > High pH @ 8.0 > Ammonia @ 0 > Nitrite @ 0 > Nitrate @ 160 > > 11/26/09 > Low pH @ 6.4 > High pH @ 8.0 > Ammonia @ 0 > Nitrite @ 0 > Nitrate @ 0 > > 12/8/09 > pH @ 7.8 > Ammonia @ 0 > Nitrite @ 0 > Nitrate @ 5ppm > > Lenny > > I am sure I can find some of those high lumens bulbs here in Orlando. > > As to how I came up with the 475gph - I measure the length of the tubing > (3/4in) coming from the pump to the elbow. > > Sump has about 5g in there > > On Saturday 12/5 I did a 20% water change, cleaned the sump, tank walls, all > sponges, tank overflow box. Did not clean or touch the bioballs. I cleaned > as I figured with so many fish that died the amount of dirt was too large. I > did not have my powered gravel pump available but did use a suction type > one. Speaking of bio balls; could I use some of the ones dr fosters smith > have that can be filled with carbon should I choose to not use real plants? > > Today I did a water test. After that came back positive I added 20 feeder > guppies and 10 ghost shrimp ($3.00) just so I can see how things will work > and if the nitrifying cycle would work. That is all the fish I have in > there. I also added a screen around the overflow box as suggested; that > seems to be working by the time I left home @ 1600 east coast US. > > The tank also has a large piece of mopani drift wood and a small one. Both > were cured for over 3 weeks. > > As for the pictures I can take some. How do I post them on here? > > Alex > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@> > wrote: > > > > See Amber's reply also and answer her questions as well. > > > > There should be a shield of some sort that should be in the overflow > > box on the tank side, to keep fish/critters from getting sucked in. > > See the Images tab and the middle image on this page. > > http://www.marinedepot.com/ps_ViewItem.aspx?category=CPR_CS_Overflow_B > > oxes_E > > xternal_Overflow_Boxes_for_Aquariums&vendor=CPR&idProduct=CR1511&IdCat > > egory= > > FIOFEB&tab=2 > > > > There is the holey piece of plastic that is covering the intake side > > of the overflow and then a sponge filter covering the external part of > > the overflow so that even if a small fry should make it through the > > holes in the holey plastic, it would just end up in the overflow on > > the outside of the tank and could be netted back to the main tank. > > > > If you can't find the holey plastic material, then you should be able > > to improvise with a filter sponge block cut to fit in your overflow > > intake side. You could even have the sponge block sticking up above > > the overflow box so fish couldn't even get into the box if they wanted > > to. Here's some examples of the sponge block media. There are various > pore sizes. > > > > http://www.amazon.com/ProClear-Aquatics-Sponge-Block-Pro150/dp/B0006JL > > UTK > > > > http://www.petmountain.com/category/346/1/aquarium-foam-sponges.html > > > > http://www.thatpetplace.com/pet/prod/207322/product.web?gdftrk=xh23lc0 > > p/7HDy > > ~g3JgKLcxo30o9zaVSElqGwrCtL3k5jQStXmh90k5x6hluxJsJaQlulCLVfFRwZcBLslWd > > Qq90nr > > sxdOMuSt0~Qn~VrgN1~wFpZfIecnYmUJu4YTzw/uIo6aQYdzzrmG/HW4Wt73Yo1MqVRDOd > > MCVWZN > > IOfJv1I5QWMxjGj53tYhyMsl3sG > > > > Your 25" high tank is not conducive to as many plants since you only > > have two 25W fluorescent bulbs but if you shop carefully and find 25W > > Daylight Bulbs that give off in excess of 2,000 lumens (I've seen > > where they can go from as low as 1,250 up to 2,225 lumens) or more, > > you could probably get away with having several varieties of low light > > plants. If you've been to my blog, "Planted Tank....", you'll see my > > lists and links to many low light, easy to grow plants that would work > > without the need to upgrade your lighting. If you win the lottery, > > then you can upgrade your lighting to a nice CFL fixture and have more > > plant options but there are dozens of plants in the low light category. > > > > Like Amber said, 475GPH for a 70G tank is not excessive although it > > may be on the high side for what many fish are comfortable with and > > many plants do not like that kind of flow rate. Usually, if a fish > > doesn't like that kind of water movement, they'll find an area with lower > movement and hang out in > > that area all the time. Are you seeing this? Of course, you should > read > > profiles on each of your fish to find out what kind of ecosystem they > > prefer and then try to get compatible tank mates. I like the profiles > > on http://fish.mongabay.com as a good starting place as they also have > > a paragraph called "SC" (Suggested Companions) that lists other > > suitable tankmates that prefer similar water parameters and ecosystems. > > > > How did you come up with a 4' elevation and that actual 475 GPH? > > Actually, the useful term for pumps, besides flow rate (GPH) is head > > pressure and there are several factors that affect head pressure, from > > elbows in the plumbing and other plumbing design issues like whether > > the right size pipe was used and then how far the pump has to push the > > water back up to the discharge. Can you take a picture of your tank, > > stand, filter and plumbing from various angles? I'm still not sure what > your's even looks like. > > > > You could also test your actual flow rate using a large garbage can > > with a known water volume and then measure how long it takes to fill > > up the garbage can to a certain measured mark. 475GPH is equal to > > 7.9G per minute so if you mark off 8, 16 and 24G marks on a 30G > > garbage can, you could measure if it takes 3 minutes to reach the 24G > > mark or if it's faster or slower and then give us the actual times if > > you can't calculate it out yourself. You would want the top of the > > garbage can to be at the same height as the top of your tank. > > > > Do you have a sump tank under your main tank? How much water does the > > filter reservoir hold? You would need to add that volume to your 70G > > volume for true water volume of your system. For example, if you have > > a 20G sump tank under a 30G display tank, you could get away with > > stocking a little heavier since you have that extra 20G of water > > volume. There may still be territory issues but that's separate issue. > > > > Also, remind us of what you have left in your tank right now. I'm > > thinking just a pleco but I want to be sure and we also need to know > > what kind of pleco to figure out what other fish you can have. > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles > > referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically > > under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) > > > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] > > On Behalf Of amejia1976 > > Sent: Friday, December 04, 2009 2:23 AM > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Planted Aquarium > > > > WOW - talk about information overload - Thanks Lenny and Amber - you > > guys are so patient. > > > > Tank is still cycling as I have added 10 ghost shrimps and a feeder > > guppy here and there, also put a pantyhose on the overflow box to > > avoid the suction of death and a Plexiglas canopy to cover and reduce > evaporation. > > > > Info on my tank > > Rectangular > > 25in Height x 36in Wide x 18in Deep > > Trickle Wet/Dry Filter similar to this but rated @ 75g > > http://z.about.com/d/saltaquarium/1/0/r/Y/1/EshoppsWetDry.jpg > > > > Tank overflow box similar to this in tank - this is also where the > > fishies got sucked into and up the u-tube > > http://www.aquabuys.com/miva/graphics/00000001/pca-overflow-box.jpg > > > > Pump > > WOW - just did some digging and found out the pump is rated @ 700gph @ > > zero elevation to 50gph @ 12ft elevation. Currently my elevation is > > 4ft which gives a 475gph flow - this might be a bit much? Could this > > be why the suction onto the overflow box slits is so strong? > > http://www.harrisonsponds.com/pdf/magdrive_250_700.pdf > > > > Test Results > > 11/19/09 > > Low pH @ 7.6 > > High pH @ 8.0 > > Ammonia @ 0 > > Nitrite @ 0 > > Nitrate @ 160 > > > > 11/26/09 - this are also the exact same numbers from my tap. Testing > > was done 4 days after adding 2g of tap water. Have not done testing > > since - scheduled for this Saturday Low pH @ 6.4 High pH @ 8.0 Ammonia > > @ 0 Nitrite @ 0 Nitrate @ 0 > > > > 2 Light Ballast rated @ up to 63watts with 2 25watt bulbs > > > > Thanks again for all your assistance. > > > > Alex >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 45052	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 12/9/2009
Subject: Re: The Aquarium Magazine, was - Newbie, and Angelfish question

Ray, Heck, I picked up an original set of Boulenger's _Catalogue of the Fresh-water Fishes of Africa in the British Museum_ for less than that starting bid. I think that they are worth, maybe, a tenth of that price. For those of you reading this thread, there is, indeed, a market for old fish publications. And, maybe even worse, those of us who will collect this stuff and even read it, use it for reference, use it to refresh our memories <g>. However, you do need to have an idea of prices that are fair for these publications. Ray would probably agree with me that I paid a price that is, perhaps, a bit less than the market for those volumes (a set of four). You may recognize the name Boulenger, having seen it listed as the author of the descriptions of many fish. The volumes were printed sequentially, with the first appearing in 1909, and the fourth in 1916. \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of sevenspringss@... Sent: Wednesday, December 09, 2009 6:15 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] The Aquarium Magazine, was - Newbie, and Angelfish question \\Steve//, I just checked out today's emails from my standing eBay searches -- "The Aquarium" magazine being one of them. Sure enough, when I opened this latest find, there was an auction for four 1937 issues of "The Aquarium" (Jan., Feb., Apr., and Nov.). Fortunately, I already happen to have these issues, but I thought you might be interested -- eBay auction number 260520624005. The Seller is asking only $599.00 for the lot, as the starting bid! He must be on crack! If anyone goes for that "deal," I have a bridge that I could part with at a bargain price. Ray

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 45053	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 12/9/2009
Subject: Re: Planted Aquarium

Keep an eye on everything, if you start to get an ammonia reading do a PWC. Is mopani wood that sinking wood that is not drift wood, a hard wood from somewhere in Asia I think? (it's also not edible by pleco's if it's the same wood that I'm thinking about). The filter you were talking about is now known as a HOB (hang on back) filter, power filters are now canister filters, the kind that sit on the floor and have hoses that run up to the tank for the intake/outakes (giving you this info to help fix any confusion and for other people reading too). Make sure you pick up a KH and GH test soon and keep an eye on your pH, you don't want it to fluctuate very much +/- .2 is acceptable, more than that and you should start to worry, as it can easily kill fish. Amber amejia1976 wrote: > > Test results 12/9 (Today) > pH @ 7.8 > Ammonia @ 0 > Nitrite @ 0 > Nitrate @ 5ppm > > These are the same results as yesterday - exactly 24 hrs later - As to > why I picked feeder guppies and shrimp - I figured if any of the > guppies made it it was a good thing and the shrimp so something could > cleaup the mess if the guppies did not make it. > > Now the new issue is the mopani wood - there are white spot on it - I > had it curing for 3 weeks before adding it to the tank but I added it > while I was cycling the tank the first time a few months ago. > > I am really thinking of going and getting the power filter I was > talking about - the one I have in the 10g tank has done a good jon for > the last 4 years. :) > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>, "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" > <GoldLenny@...> wrote: > > > > Your 11/26/09 test results looks like something went dramatically > wrong with > > your nitrogen cycle or your test results. While the ammonia and nitrite > > should be 0.0ppm, your nitrates should have some kind of reading... > > especially if you had 160ppm the week before. Even if you did a few 25% > > PWC's, it would only reduce the 160ppm but not down to 0.0ppm. > > > > For posting photos in the group's albums, go to the group's home page, > > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/aquaticlife > <http://groups.yahoo.com/group/aquaticlife> and click on the Photos > > button/link, then there should be instructions. I'll be honest and > admit I > > do not use Yahoo Group's for hosting my online photo albums. I like > using > > either Flickr, Webshots or Photobucket and then you can just include > a link. > > > > > > I hesitate to recommend Flickr sometimes, now that they are owned by > Yahoo, > > although you do get a free account with every Yahoo ID. The reason, I do > > not like using Yahoo services for online storage is that they have a > history > > of closing down services. Years ago, every Yahoo ID had a Photo album > > associated with it and Yahoo shut that down when they could have just > > migrated everything over to a Flickr account linked to the same ID. Yes, > > Yahoo notified people but still, thousands of people lost all their > photos. > > Next, Yahoo had Geocities, which was a free website service for newbies, > > which I was and still am for website design. After many years and > millions > > of Geocities websites, they shut that down in October of this year and > > thousands, if not millions of people lost their websites, although > they can > > still find them on the Internet Archive Wayback Machine which > archives every > > website that is on the web for at least a short period of time. > Yahoo also > > shut down the Yahoo 360 Profiles, which was their first attempt at > social > > networking. I always worry that they will shut down Yahoo Group's > one day. > > Don't think it can happen??? Well, MSN recently shut down all of their > > group's without providing a reasonable way of migrating all the > information > > and members over to a new group system. TONS of information was > lost, but > > for the Internet Archive Wayback Machine at http://www.archive.org > <http://www.archive.org> The same > > thing has also happened with AOL when they shut down their member > websites. > > Yes, the same thing could happen with Webshots or Photobucket which > is why > > it's a good idea to have the same photos hosted on two different > websites... > > that's what I do, just in case... as well as having them backed up on my > > computer and an automatic online backup service. I use > > https://mozy.com/?code=SY4ZSI <https://mozy.com/?code=SY4ZSI> since > it's free for 2.5GB of files and has an > > unlimited plan for under $5.00 a month. I've tried Mozy and > Carbonite but I > > like Mozy better... and Carbonite does not have a free version, only > a trial > > version. At least with Mozy, folks can back up their most important > 2.5GB > > of files for an unlimited time period and not have to pay if they > choose not > > to upgrade to a paid version. They also have their little referral > program > > where folks get added free storage when referring people to Mozy. I > have a > > paid account on my main computer and the free version on another > computer > > and I'm up to 6.5GB of free online storage, which is plenty enough for > > documents and photos but not for music and videos if folks have lots of > > them. MSN has a couple of free services for online backup also but > it's not > > automatic like Mozy. The automatic online backup is done on a scheduled > > basis or whenever the computer is not being heavily used. I have > mine set > > to do backups every night. > > > > OK.. back to fish. > > > > Why did you go with the 20 feeder guppies? There are much better, > safer and > > humane ways to Fishless Cycle which does not harm the fish. A 99 cents > > bottle of plain ammonia (Ace Hardware) can be used for fishless > cycling a > > tank instead of using fish... especially feeder fish which might > have health > > issues that you will be bringing into your tank. I also hope the shrimp > > make it also. I've never heard of anyone using live shrimp to cycle a > > tank... well, except for years ago, folks would actually throw a > piece of > > normal shrimp into their tank and let it rot away until it put out > ammonia > > and fishless cycled the tank. I'm not sure if this is where you got the > > idea of using "shrimp"... but they shouldn't have been live shrimp, > IMO. Of > > course, if I couldn't find plain ammonia, then the old-fashioned > "pee in the > > tank" method works fine also. Just be careful up on that ladder... > and make > > sure you don't have to go so bad that you can't stop after an ounce > or two. > > ;-) > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right > > side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, > Month) > > > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On > > Behalf Of amejia1976 > > Sent: Tuesday, December 08, 2009 9:19 PM > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Planted Aquarium > > > > OK, > > > > Thanks all for the info - I have been working overnights the past > few days > > and have had little time to respond/reply to your questions. > > > > To answer > > > > Amber - I am using the API master test kit for freshwater; ph, Ammonia, > > Nitrate and Nitrite. Do not have a water hardness test - should I > get one? > > > > Test Results > > > > 11/19/09 > > Low pH @ 7.6 > > High pH @ 8.0 > > Ammonia @ 0 > > Nitrite @ 0 > > Nitrate @ 160 > > > > 11/26/09 > > Low pH @ 6.4 > > High pH @ 8.0 > > Ammonia @ 0 > > Nitrite @ 0 > > Nitrate @ 0 > > > > 12/8/09 > > pH @ 7.8 > > Ammonia @ 0 > > Nitrite @ 0 > > Nitrate @ 5ppm > > > > Lenny > > > > I am sure I can find some of those high lumens bulbs here in Orlando. > > > > As to how I came up with the 475gph - I measure the length of the tubing > > (3/4in) coming from the pump to the elbow. > > > > Sump has about 5g in there > > > > On Saturday 12/5 I did a 20% water change, cleaned the sump, tank > walls, all > > sponges, tank overflow box. Did not clean or touch the bioballs. I > cleaned > > as I figured with so many fish that died the amount of dirt was too > large. I > > did not have my powered gravel pump available but did use a suction type > > one. Speaking of bio balls; could I use some of the ones dr fosters > smith > > have that can be filled with carbon should I choose to not use real > plants? > > > > Today I did a water test. After that came back positive I added 20 > feeder > > guppies and 10 ghost shrimp ($3.00) just so I can see how things > will work > > and if the nitrifying cycle would work. That is all the fish I have in > > there. I also added a screen around the overflow box as suggested; that > > seems to be working by the time I left home @ 1600 east coast US. > > > > The tank also has a large piece of mopani drift wood and a small > one. Both > > were cured for over 3 weeks. > > > > As for the pictures I can take some. How do I post them on here? > > > > Alex > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>, "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" > <GoldLenny@> > > wrote: > > > > > > See Amber's reply also and answer her questions as well. > > > > > > There should be a shield of some sort that should be in the overflow > > > box on the tank side, to keep fish/critters from getting sucked in. > > > See the Images tab and the middle image on this page. > > > > http://www.marinedepot.com/ps_ViewItem.aspx?category=CPR_CS_Overflow_B > <http://www.marinedepot.com/ps_ViewItem.aspx?category=CPR_CS_Overflow_B> > > > oxes_E > > > xternal_Overflow_Boxes_for_Aquariums&vendor=CPR&idProduct=CR1511&IdCat > > > egory= > > > FIOFEB&tab=2 > > > > > > There is the holey piece of plastic that is covering the intake side > > > of the overflow and then a sponge filter covering the external > part of > > > the overflow so that even if a small fry should make it through the > > > holes in the holey plastic, it would just end up in the overflow on > > > the outside of the tank and could be netted back to the main tank. > > > > > > If you can't find the holey plastic material, then you should be able > > > to improvise with a filter sponge block cut to fit in your overflow > > > intake side. You could even have the sponge block sticking up above > > > the overflow box so fish couldn't even get into the box if they > wanted > > > to. Here's some examples of the sponge block media. There are various > > pore sizes. > > > > > > > http://www.amazon.com/ProClear-Aquatics-Sponge-Block-Pro150/dp/B0006JL > <http://www.amazon.com/ProClear-Aquatics-Sponge-Block-Pro150/dp/B0006JL> > > > UTK > > > > > > > http://www.petmountain.com/category/346/1/aquarium-foam-sponges.html > <http://www.petmountain.com/category/346/1/aquarium-foam-sponges.html> > > > > > > > http://www.thatpetplace.com/pet/prod/207322/product.web?gdftrk=xh23lc0 > <http://www.thatpetplace.com/pet/prod/207322/product.web?gdftrk=xh23lc0> > > > p/7HDy > > > ~g3JgKLcxo30o9zaVSElqGwrCtL3k5jQStXmh90k5x6hluxJsJaQlulCLVfFRwZcBLslWd > > > Qq90nr > > > sxdOMuSt0~Qn~VrgN1~wFpZfIecnYmUJu4YTzw/uIo6aQYdzzrmG/HW4Wt73Yo1MqVRDOd > > > MCVWZN > > > IOfJv1I5QWMxjGj53tYhyMsl3sG > > > > > > Your 25" high tank is not conducive to as many plants since you only > > > have two 25W fluorescent bulbs but if you shop carefully and find 25W > > > Daylight Bulbs that give off in excess of 2,000 lumens (I've seen > > > where they can go from as low as 1,250 up to 2,225 lumens) or more, > > > you could probably get away with having several varieties of low > light > > > plants. If you've been to my blog, "Planted Tank....", you'll see my > > > lists and links to many low light, easy to grow plants that would > work > > > without the need to upgrade your lighting. If you win the lottery, > > > then you can upgrade your lighting to a nice CFL fixture and have > more > > > plant options but there are dozens of plants in the low light > category. > > > > > > Like Amber said, 475GPH for a 70G tank is not excessive although it > > > may be on the high side for what many fish are comfortable with and > > > many plants do not like that kind of flow rate. Usually, if a fish > > > doesn't like that kind of water movement, they'll find an area > with lower > > movement and hang out in > > > that area all the time. Are you seeing this? Of course, you should > > read > > > profiles on each of your fish to find out what kind of ecosystem they > > > prefer and then try to get compatible tank mates. I like the profiles > > > on http://fish.mongabay.com <http://fish.mongabay.com> as a good > starting place as they also have > > > a paragraph called "SC" (Suggested Companions) that lists other > > > suitable tankmates that prefer similar water parameters and > ecosystems. > > > > > > How did you come up with a 4' elevation and that actual 475 GPH? > > > Actually, the useful term for pumps, besides flow rate (GPH) is head > > > pressure and there are several factors that affect head pressure, > from > > > elbows in the plumbing and other plumbing design issues like whether > > > the right size pipe was used and then how far the pump has to push > the > > > water back up to the discharge. Can you take a picture of your tank, > > > stand, filter and plumbing from various angles? I'm still not sure > what > > your's even looks like. > > > > > > You could also test your actual flow rate using a large garbage can > > > with a known water volume and then measure how long it takes to fill > > > up the garbage can to a certain measured mark. 475GPH is equal to > > > 7.9G per minute so if you mark off 8, 16 and 24G marks on a 30G > > > garbage can, you could measure if it takes 3 minutes to reach the 24G > > > mark or if it's faster or slower and then give us the actual times if > > > you can't calculate it out yourself. You would want the top of the > > > garbage can to be at the same height as the top of your tank. > > > > > > Do you have a sump tank under your main tank? How much water does the > > > filter reservoir hold? You would need to add that volume to your 70G > > > volume for true water volume of your system. For example, if you have > > > a 20G sump tank under a 30G display tank, you could get away with > > > stocking a little heavier since you have that extra 20G of water > > > volume. There may still be territory issues but that's separate issue. > > > > > > Also, remind us of what you have left in your tank right now. I'm > > > thinking just a pleco but I want to be sure and we also need to know > > > what kind of pleco to figure out what other fish you can have. > > > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> (Links to any articles > > > referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, > alphabetically > > > under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] > > > On Behalf Of amejia1976 > > > Sent: Friday, December 04, 2009 2:23 AM > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Planted Aquarium > > > > > > WOW - talk about information overload - Thanks Lenny and Amber - you > > > guys are so patient. > > > > > > Tank is still cycling as I have added 10 ghost shrimps and a feeder > > > guppy here and there, also put a pantyhose on the overflow box to > > > avoid the suction of death and a Plexiglas canopy to cover and reduce > > evaporation. > > > > > > Info on my tank > > > Rectangular > > > 25in Height x 36in Wide x 18in Deep > > > Trickle Wet/Dry Filter similar to this but rated @ 75g > > > http://z.about.com/d/saltaquarium/1/0/r/Y/1/EshoppsWetDry.jpg > <http://z.about.com/d/saltaquarium/1/0/r/Y/1/EshoppsWetDry.jpg> > > > > > > Tank overflow box similar to this in tank - this is also where the > > > fishies got sucked into and up the u-tube > > > > http://www.aquabuys.com/miva/graphics/00000001/pca-overflow-box.jpg > <http://www.aquabuys.com/miva/graphics/00000001/pca-overflow-box.jpg> > > > > > > Pump > > > WOW - just did some digging and found out the pump is rated @ > 700gph @ > > > zero elevation to 50gph @ 12ft elevation. Currently my elevation is > > > 4ft which gives a 475gph flow - this might be a bit much? Could this > > > be why the suction onto the overflow box slits is so strong? > > > http://www.harrisonsponds.com/pdf/magdrive_250_700.pdf > <http://www.harrisonsponds.com/pdf/magdrive_250_700.pdf> > > > > > > Test Results > > > 11/19/09 > > > Low pH @ 7.6 > > > High pH @ 8.0 > > > Ammonia @ 0 > > > Nitrite @ 0 > > > Nitrate @ 160 > > > > > > 11/26/09 - this are also the exact same numbers from my tap. Testing > > > was done 4 days after adding 2g of tap water. Have not done testing > > > since - scheduled for this Saturday Low pH @ 6.4 High pH @ 8.0 > Ammonia > > > @ 0 Nitrite @ 0 Nitrate @ 0 > > > > > > 2 Light Ballast rated @ up to 63watts with 2 25watt bulbs > > > > > > Thanks again for all your assistance. > > > > > > Alex > > > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 45054	From: greyclouds99	Date: 12/10/2009
Subject: Re: Update on my sick Angelfish

Ray, Lenny, it doesn't look like a sack, because the necrosis is getting deeper today that I can see "light" through it, which is certainly coming through the eyeball. I went to the city this morning to get the "SILAZON", unfortunately the only packs I found were expired on Feb2009, I brought one of them anyway "for free of course", just in case you advised me to try it anyway. On the other hand, I just performed a 50% water change, but didn't yet add all the needed volume of "conditioned" water back to avoid big temperature changes. I'm adding SALT gradually, and waiting your reply wheather or not I should add the "expired" SILAZON. Are there any confirmation wheather this fish is in a lot of pain? Should I just end its life to relieve it? She's moving and eating normally now, as elegant as any other Angelfish would be. P.S: To Ray, I performed thorough gravel vaccuming on all the three tanks as you recommended. Tristan --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, sevenspringss@... wrote: > > Tristan, Continuing with what I had just posted, and adding to Lenny's > remarks, I too feel this may not be what's normally diagnosed as "Pop-Eye" > (Exophthalmus) as I've never seen this condition develop as a sack coming out > from behind the eye either. Instead, just as Lenny describes, I've always > seen it as the eyeball itself swelling to several times its normal size from > the build-up of fluids within it -- but nothing that would push the eyeball > out as a separate sack. Of course, while this sack would seem to be a > manifestation of some other malady, there's nothing to say that Pop-Eye could not > be accompanying this other malady. > > This medication you refer to as "SILAZON" seems quite reminiscent of API's > (Aquarium Pharmaceutical's) Triple-Sulfa too, just as it reminded Lenny of. > I do note two differences though; besides the same Sulfathiazole, > Triple-Sulfa contains Sulfamethazine and Sulfacetamide, rather than the Sulfadiazine > and Sulfamemidine that SILAZON uses. I don't know how significant this is, > or how differently the one medication may behave from the other (or even if > it does), as I'm not a chemist. Often, different manufacturers use similar > yet different names for the same medications, so I don't know if in fact > these are all the same ingredients or not. Maybe Lenny could find some links > to these particular sulfa drugs to research any similarities between them. > > As you described this SILAZON as treating both externally and internally, I > found this to be of very possible extreme benefit in treating this (these?) > maladie(s), and recommended its use based on your description of its > activity. I'm trusting that it still will be. However, I wish to point out that > to the best of my knowledge, the Triple-Sulfa that both Lenny and I are most > familiar with does not treat for internal issues; it is not readily > absorbable internally. Additionally, while Triple Sulfa is often described as a > broad-spectrum medication, this IS one of the few such identified medications > that primarily ONLY treat against Gram-Negative bacteria, and very FEW > Gram-Positive pathogens. Likewise, it does NOT treat anaerobic bacteria such as > Pseudomonas or Aeromonas as would cause Pop-Eye (a Gram-Positive pathogen). > I do hope that this SILAZON would be effective against this though, if this > (Pop-Eye) is part of what's affecting the eye. > > I am reminded too, that this disease may be caused by Tetrahymena, a > ciliated Protozoan resembling a similar Ciliate -- Ichthyophthirius (Ich). > Coincidentally, in the aquarium, it resides in organic material at the bottom. It > manifests itself as Exophthalmia -- a swelled, popped out eye similar to > the more frequently encountered Pop-Eye disease. Unfortunately, there is no > known cure for this. Ray > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 45055	From: sevenspringss@wmconnect.com	Date: 12/10/2009
Subject: Re: Update on my sick Angelfish

Tristan, As only you are able to observe how fast this condition/disease is advancing, you would need to be the final judge on how much time (or how urgent) you feel that active treatment should be employed. Only as I'm suspect of this SILAZON being very similar (or the same?) to the API Triple Sulfa, I would first recommend giving your Minocycline another try in the manner I suggested -- pulverizing it and dissolving it in hot water -- but I say this not knowing if SILAZON will actually be effective internally and/or whether it will act against Gram-Positive anaerobic bacteria. If Lenny can find some links indicated any relationships between these sulfa drugs used in both medications, this may tells us how to better proceed. I would not discount SILAZON's abilities in these applications, especially if they're spelled out on the packaging (can you confirm any such claims?). If you can, and/or if Lenny can find any links describing the sulfa's uses in your medication which would support these activities, then of course I'd preclude further use of the Minocycline in favor of the SILAZON. In any event, if after giving Minocyline another shot, and finding it still wasn't effective, I would definitely go with the SILAZON as you'd have nothing to lose -- and everything to gain if it did work. It certainly can't hurt, except to allow further advancement of the disease if it was found not to work (which I why I'm not for trying it yet). As for this condition causing any discomfort or pain to the fish, I would extremely doubt it as fish not feeling up to par would not be moving "normally" and certainly would not eat if they were so neuralgically stressed. Ray</HTML>

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 45056	From: sevenspringss@wmconnect.com	Date: 12/10/2009
Subject: Re: Angelfish Breeding Background, was - Newbie, and Angelfish que

Hi \\Steve// -- and anyone else interested in the background of Angelfish, Adding to what I've already posted on the subject, I'd first like to point out that the introduction date that I gave (as 1903) for Angelfish (Scalare) first being imported into Germany was erroneous, although there still remains to be some controversy about that with most (including Dr. George Myers, whom I mentioned) stating it was 1909. I had just previously been reading about when the Altum Angel was first described (in 1903) and had confused myself when posting on this a couple of days ago. Still, there are others who write that Scalare were first imported in 1911. The difference here probably being immaterial in the whole scheme of things. What IS more important, is that in browsing my earlier (than "The Aquarium" magazine) collection of "Aquatic Life" magazine I note that Scalare Angels were first imported to the United States (from Germany) , by the Brooklyn Aquarium Society, in 1915 according to this magazine and most other accounts, and possibly as early as 1913 (by an account written by Dr. Wayne Leibel). BTW, Wayne is a mutual friend of both \\Steve// and myself, and is noted as a TFH magazine columnist. The Philadelphia breeder, William L. Paullin, whom I wrote of had obtained some of these wild Scalares in 1915 and was able to spawn them that year (once) and in the following year (four times) -- each time without being able to raise them. Finally, in 1917, Paullin was successful in raising about 250 fry, and in 1918 raised 300 fry. He first advertised them for sale in "Aquatic Life" magazine in ads he took out for the October and November 1917 issues with nothing further that year, nor do I see any advertising by him in 1918 -- although to be fair, while I have most issues for that year, I am missing a few. Wm. Paullin's ad simply states: "Young Pterophyllum Scalare -- and Other Rare Tropical Fishes, Wm. L. Paullin, 425 Wolf Street, Philadelphia, Pa. ---- NO MAIL ORDERS." It does appear that Dr. Myers missed this early success by Wm. Paullin though when he stated that he first bred them in 1923. Actually, I find no advertising by Paullin in 1923, while I do see an ad running several months of that year starting in October (in "Aquatic Life") by a breeder in New York City. This breeder was E.Velstieg, who's small ad read: "PTEROPHYLLUM SCALARE -- The Type Of Stock You Long Have Sought And Priced Within Your Reach -- E. VELSTIEG, 983 - 3rd Avenue, New York, NY." Now, almost as interesting is that in the September though December 1920 issues of "Aquatic Life" magazine, Franklin Barrett (a noted Philadelphia tropical fish breeder and retailer of the day) placed a fair sized advertisement, printed as: "$15.00 Each - Pterophyllum Scalare (ANGEL FISH) - THE HANDSOMEST FISH THAT SWIMS - We have succeeded in raising some of these rare and beautiful fish and can now offer them to fish lovers for $15.00 each. - About size of cut - FRANKLIN BARRETT, 401 to 417 E. Wyoming Avenue :: Philadelphia." I need to point out that a "cut" in printer's terms is an engraving; Barrett included an engraving of a Scalare in his ad, the size he was indicating as selling. In measuring this "cut," I found this Angelfish engraving to be 15/16" high (top of dorsal fin to bottom of anal fin) with a body of 3/8" diameter. Not very big, although this appears to be a "generic" engraving that the editor used (in two sizes) in other ads, so this may or may not indicate the true size that Barrett was selling -- although even the larger engraving is not that much bigger. It could appear extremely likely that Barrett obtained his original stock (as juveniles) from Paullin, early on, and grew them out himself for breeding -- and he was credited for breeding this species; he did not just buy Paullin's stock to resell. Dr. Myers also missed this part of the Scalare's background. As already mentioned, the German breeders did not start breeding this fish until 1924. In that year, Aquarium Hamburg's Wilhelm Eimeke imported Angelfish from a different location as had been collected from before. He was successful in breeding them later that same year. This Angelfish was later described (named) in honor of Eimeke in 1928, when the ichthyologist Ernst Ahl named it Pterophyllum eimekei, a name that stood the test of time until 1986, when "lumper" ichthyologist Sven Kullander included it as just another location of P. scalare, although many differences had previously been pointed out by Gordon, Schultz et al. It may yet be split off again sometime in the future. I have a short account (2 paragraphs) of the breeding of Scalare written by Paullin in 1918, but will save this for another time. Ray </HTML>

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 45057	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 12/10/2009
Subject: Re: Update on my sick Angelfish

Be careful doing such large water changes, it can easily shock a fish if you do the water change all at once and it changes your tank chemistry too much (such as pH, etc). Try to not do more than 25% at a time, wait at least an hour if not more, and then do your 2nd water change if you really need to. Changing too much water at once can easily do more harm than good sometimes, I've learned this the hard way in the past. Amber greyclouds99 wrote: > > Ray, Lenny, it doesn't look like a sack, because the necrosis is > getting deeper today that I can see "light" through it, which is > certainly coming through the eyeball. > I went to the city this morning to get the "SILAZON", unfortunately > the only packs I found were expired on Feb2009, I brought one of them > anyway "for free of course", just in case you advised me to try it > anyway. > > On the other hand, I just performed a 50% water change, but didn't yet > add all the needed volume of "conditioned" water back to avoid big > temperature changes. I'm adding SALT gradually, and waiting your reply > wheather or not I should add the "expired" SILAZON. > > Are there any confirmation wheather this fish is in a lot of pain? > Should I just end its life to relieve it? She's moving and eating > normally now, as elegant as any other Angelfish would be. > > P.S: To Ray, I performed thorough gravel vaccuming on all the three > tanks as you recommended. > > Tristan > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>, sevenspringss@... wrote: > > > > Tristan, Continuing with what I had just posted, and adding to Lenny's > > remarks, I too feel this may not be what's normally diagnosed as > "Pop-Eye" > > (Exophthalmus) as I've never seen this condition develop as a sack > coming out > > from behind the eye either. Instead, just as Lenny describes, I've > always > > seen it as the eyeball itself swelling to several times its normal > size from > > the build-up of fluids within it -- but nothing that would push the > eyeball > > out as a separate sack. Of course, while this sack would seem to be a > > manifestation of some other malady, there's nothing to say that > Pop-Eye could not > > be accompanying this other malady. > > > > This medication you refer to as "SILAZON" seems quite reminiscent of > API's > > (Aquarium Pharmaceutical's) Triple-Sulfa too, just as it reminded > Lenny of. > > I do note two differences though; besides the same Sulfathiazole, > > Triple-Sulfa contains Sulfamethazine and Sulfacetamide, rather than > the Sulfadiazine > > and Sulfamemidine that SILAZON uses. I don't know how significant > this is, > > or how differently the one medication may behave from the other (or > even if > > it does), as I'm not a chemist. Often, different manufacturers use > similar > > yet different names for the same medications, so I don't know if in > fact > > these are all the same ingredients or not. Maybe Lenny could find > some links > > to these particular sulfa drugs to research any similarities between > them. > > > > As you described this SILAZON as treating both externally and > internally, I > > found this to be of very possible extreme benefit in treating this > (these?) > > maladie(s), and recommended its use based on your description of its > > activity. I'm trusting that it still will be. However, I wish to > point out that > > to the best of my knowledge, the Triple-Sulfa that both Lenny and I > are most > > familiar with does not treat for internal issues; it is not readily > > absorbable internally. Additionally, while Triple Sulfa is often > described as a > > broad-spectrum medication, this IS one of the few such identified > medications > > that primarily ONLY treat against Gram-Negative bacteria, and very FEW > > Gram-Positive pathogens. Likewise, it does NOT treat anaerobic > bacteria such as > > Pseudomonas or Aeromonas as would cause Pop-Eye (a Gram-Positive > pathogen). > > I do hope that this SILAZON would be effective against this though, > if this > > (Pop-Eye) is part of what's affecting the eye. > > > > I am reminded too, that this disease may be caused by Tetrahymena, a > > ciliated Protozoan resembling a similar Ciliate -- Ichthyophthirius > (Ich). > > Coincidentally, in the aquarium, it resides in organic material at > the bottom. It > > manifests itself as Exophthalmia -- a swelled, popped out eye > similar to > > the more frequently encountered Pop-Eye disease. Unfortunately, > there is no > > known cure for this. Ray > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 45058	From: greyclouds99	Date: 12/10/2009
Subject: Re: Update on my sick Angelfish

Amber, I'm glad I did not replace all the removed water at once, even if it's for a different reason than the one you mentioned. I removed 50% of the water in the morning, and have been replacing it gradually (about 15-20% of the remaining 50% every 2-3 hours), depending on the temperature drops (I'm trying not to allow more than 1 degree drop each time). Till now the tank is only 60% full, and I'm putting a bucket of conditioned water in the room to add it slowly. Thanks for your new information. Tristan --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, Amber Berglund <arberglund@...> wrote: > > Be careful doing such large water changes, it can easily shock a fish if > you do the water change all at once and it changes your tank chemistry > too much (such as pH, etc). Try to not do more than 25% at a time, wait > at least an hour if not more, and then do your 2nd water change if you > really need to. Changing too much water at once can easily do more harm > than good sometimes, I've learned this the hard way in the past. > > Amber > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 45059	From: greyclouds99	Date: 12/10/2009
Subject: Re: Update on my sick Angelfish

I have no idea if the claims spelled on the packaging are true or false, I didn't know anyone who used it before around here so can't tell if it works or not. Just a reminder, the only packages I found in all the LFSs have EXPIRED on Feb2009, is it allowed to use it anyway in case the second course of Minocycline didn't work? Tristan --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, sevenspringss@... wrote: > > > > Tristan, As only you are able to observe how fast this condition/disease > is advancing, you would need to be the final judge on how much time (or how > urgent) you feel that active treatment should be employed. Only as I'm > suspect of this SILAZON being very similar (or the same?) to the API Triple > Sulfa, I would first recommend giving your Minocycline another try in the manner > I suggested -- pulverizing it and dissolving it in hot water -- but I say > this not knowing if SILAZON will actually be effective internally and/or > whether it will act against Gram-Positive anaerobic bacteria. If Lenny can find > some links indicated any relationships between these sulfa drugs used in > both medications, this may tells us how to better proceed. > > I would not discount SILAZON's abilities in these applications, especially > if they're spelled out on the packaging (can you confirm any such claims?). > If you can, and/or if Lenny can find any links describing the sulfa's uses > in your medication which would support these activities, then of course I'd > preclude further use of the Minocycline in favor of the SILAZON. > > In any event, if after giving Minocyline another shot, and finding it still > wasn't effective, I would definitely go with the SILAZON as you'd have > nothing to lose -- and everything to gain if it did work. It certainly can't > hurt, except to allow further advancement of the disease if it was found not > to work (which I why I'm not for trying it yet). As for this condition > causing any discomfort or pain to the fish, I would extremely doubt it as fish > not feeling up to par would not be moving "normally" and certainly would not > eat if they were so neuralgically stressed. Ray</HTML> >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 45060	From: cobra427lady	Date: 12/10/2009
Subject: Deep Water Air Pumps

Any recommendastions out there for a deep water air pump? The tank is 100 gallon tall hex - about 36 inches deep. Have a Tetratec DW96 but the darn thing is not putting out enough air to blow out a candle! I want to run it on 1 12" air wand and 2 air stones.....any assistance is appreciated. Thanks, Clare

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 45061	From: cobra427lady	Date: 12/10/2009
Subject: Re: New to the Group

Thanks, Amber - appreciate your suggestions - I am not sure how I feel about this tank yet LOL will see after I have it up and runnig for a few months..... Cheers, Clare --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, Amber Berglund <arberglund@...> wrote: > > I have never had one that large, but I loved my hex tank (now if only my > parents would give it back, LOL). It's true that you can't keep as many > fish in it compared to a 100 gallon LONG tank, but it's still a nice > sized tank. I would for one thing move your 1 angel over to that bigger > tank as it's putting your current bioload up a bit higher on that 40 > gallon, my 2 Angelfish currently have their own tank of 55 gallon's to > themselves, not to mention they tend to get fairly aggressive at some > point (not all of them do, but some can be nasty to other fish and nip > at them at times, especially slower moving fish). If you move your angel > that lets you get other semi aggressive type fish and keep your 40 > gallon as a community tank. > > Amber > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 45062	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 12/10/2009
Subject: Re: Update on my sick Angelfish

Good to hear, is the conditioned bucket room temp? what's your tank temp at? You can allow about 2 degrees temp change safely, just so you know too. Amber greyclouds99 wrote: > > Amber, I'm glad I did not replace all the removed water at once, even > if it's for a different reason than the one you mentioned. > I removed 50% of the water in the morning, and have been replacing it > gradually (about 15-20% of the remaining 50% every 2-3 hours), > depending on the temperature drops (I'm trying not to allow more than > 1 degree drop each time). Till now the tank is only 60% full, and I'm > putting a bucket of conditioned water in the room to add it slowly. > Thanks for your new information. > > Tristan > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>, Amber Berglund > <arberglund@...> wrote: > > > > Be careful doing such large water changes, it can easily shock a > fish if > > you do the water change all at once and it changes your tank chemistry > > too much (such as pH, etc). Try to not do more than 25% at a time, wait > > at least an hour if not more, and then do your 2nd water change if you > > really need to. Changing too much water at once can easily do more harm > > than good sometimes, I've learned this the hard way in the past. > > > > Amber > > > > > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 45063	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 12/10/2009
Subject: Re: Update on my sick Angelfish

From what I understand about meds is that if they are expired they will still work, just not as well. They lose their potency slowly over time, it shouldn't harm the fish if it's expired, but it may take more doses than normal (longer dosing). Since you don't know their potency compared to normal it's best to just go with the dosing instructions on the package and hope that it hasn't lost too much potency in nearly a years time. Amber greyclouds99 wrote: > > > I have no idea if the claims spelled on the packaging are true or > false, I didn't know anyone who used it before around here so can't > tell if it works or not. > Just a reminder, the only packages I found in all the LFSs have > EXPIRED on Feb2009, is it allowed to use it anyway in case the second > course of Minocycline didn't work? > > Tristan > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>, sevenspringss@... wrote: > > > > > > > > Tristan, As only you are able to observe how fast this > condition/disease > > is advancing, you would need to be the final judge on how much time > (or how > > urgent) you feel that active treatment should be employed. Only as I'm > > suspect of this SILAZON being very similar (or the same?) to the API > Triple > > Sulfa, I would first recommend giving your Minocycline another try > in the manner > > I suggested -- pulverizing it and dissolving it in hot water -- but > I say > > this not knowing if SILAZON will actually be effective internally > and/or > > whether it will act against Gram-Positive anaerobic bacteria. If > Lenny can find > > some links indicated any relationships between these sulfa drugs > used in > > both medications, this may tells us how to better proceed. > > > > I would not discount SILAZON's abilities in these applications, > especially > > if they're spelled out on the packaging (can you confirm any such > claims?). > > If you can, and/or if Lenny can find any links describing the > sulfa's uses > > in your medication which would support these activities, then of > course I'd > > preclude further use of the Minocycline in favor of the SILAZON. > > > > In any event, if after giving Minocyline another shot, and finding > it still > > wasn't effective, I would definitely go with the SILAZON as you'd have > > nothing to lose -- and everything to gain if it did work. It > certainly can't > > hurt, except to allow further advancement of the disease if it was > found not > > to work (which I why I'm not for trying it yet). As for this condition > > causing any discomfort or pain to the fish, I would extremely doubt > it as fish > > not feeling up to par would not be moving "normally" and certainly > would not > > eat if they were so neuralgically stressed. Ray</HTML> > > > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 45064	From: cat.rose	Date: 12/10/2009
Subject: Buying Cherry Shrimp

Hi there! I want to buy 1-2 cherry shrimp for my 10 gal freshwater tank to try and keep the algae down. Drs. Foster & Smith sell them but they've been "Unavailable" for sometime now. Anyone have a recommendation for another reputable on-line store to buy them? Thanks! Catherine [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 45065	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 12/10/2009
Subject: Re: Buying Cherry Shrimp

I prefer to get my fish from breeders myself, there is another group member here that breeds cherry shrimp (among other fish/invertebrates). I'm sure she will speak up if she has some available (Pam you out there? LOL). She has very good fish and invertebrates, I and at least a few other group members have gotten stuff from Pam in the past and everything arrived in great condition. Also you can check www.aquabid.com it's like ebay but for aquatic stuff, I get fish on there now and then. Amber cat.rose wrote: > > Hi there! > > I want to buy 1-2 cherry shrimp for my 10 gal freshwater tank to try and > keep the algae down. Drs. Foster & Smith sell them but they've been > "Unavailable" for sometime now. > > Anyone have a recommendation for another reputable on-line store to buy > them? > > Thanks! > Catherine > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 45066	From: pam andress	Date: 12/10/2009
Subject: Re: Buying Cherry Shrimp

I'm here. :) Yes I have cherry shrimp. I also have green shrimp. Either will help and so will a BN (Bristle Nose Pleco). What do you have in this tank? Pam > I prefer to get my fish from breeders myself, there is another group > member here that breeds cherry shrimp (among other fish/invertebrates). > I'm sure she will speak up if she has some available (Pam you out there? > LOL). > She has very good fish and invertebrates, I and at least a few other > group members have gotten stuff from Pam in the past and everything > arrived in great condition. > Also you can check www.aquabid.com it's like ebay but for aquatic stuff, > I get fish on there now and then. > > Amber > > cat.rose wrote: > > > > Hi there! > > > > I want to buy 1-2 cherry shrimp for my 10 gal freshwater tank to try and > > keep the algae down. Drs. Foster & Smith sell them but they've been > > "Unavailable" for sometime now. > > > > Anyone have a recommendation for another reputable on-line store to buy > > them? > > > > Thanks! > > Catherine > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > > > > ------------------------------------ > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. > ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> > PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- > <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. > > If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the home page. > > Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com to receive the digest, which includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email > > Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com for the No E-Mail option where you will still be able to read messages on the group and post replies. > > Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com to receive individual e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 45067	From: sevenspringss@wmconnect.com	Date: 12/10/2009
Subject: Re: Update on my sick Angelfish

Hello Tristan, By what you're saying then, I see this as the packing saying that it supposedly treats internal infections as well as external ones. At least this is a step in the right direction if it holds true; you are not expected to know whether it is or not, though. The next thing is whether or not it treats against gram-positive pathogens and whether it treats against anaerobic bacteria or not. I find nothing for SILAZON on the 'net when I do a search for it, so there's no help there. Since we don't know those answers, I would still give it a try in the absence of any other medications available near you for treating this disease. As I said, it's worth a shot after trying Minocycline. It just may not be as strong as it originally was, as Amber pointed out, but it wouldn't be harmful. I've never experienced adverse effects when accidentally overdosing with Triple Sulfa, so I wouldn't expect any bad reaction with this if you used it at 125% - 150% normal doseage to make up for any loss of potency. Longest life for such medications comes when you store them in the refrigerator, but that seldom is taken into account by LFS's. Ray [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 45068	From: Kevin Boyle	Date: 12/10/2009
Subject: Re: Deep Water Air Pumps

i have one of these DAPMH15 and it works well one of the tanks is an 80 gal XH and it runs an airstone in this and 6 other tanks not quite as deep. http://www.jehmco.com/html/diaphragm_air_pumps.html ----- Original Message ----- From: "cobra427lady" <clare@...> To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Thursday, December 10, 2009 11:20:37 AM GMT -05:00 US/Canada Eastern Subject: [AquaticLife] Deep Water Air Pumps   Any recommendastions out there for a deep water air pump? The tank is 100 gallon tall hex - about 36 inches deep. Have a Tetratec DW96 but the darn thing is not putting out enough air to blow out a candle! I want to run it on 1 12" air wand and 2 air stones.....any assistance is appreciated. Thanks, Clare [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 45069	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 12/10/2009
Subject: Re: Buying Cherry Shrimp

I think you should get more than one or two. Maybe 10 so they have a chance to breed for you too. They don't live a long time so you'll want some breeding for you or you'll be buying new ones all the time and the shipping cost for just one or two would make the price WAY TOO HIGH for a couple of cherry shrimp. The last time I checked on Aquabid.com, they were selling lots of 10 for around a dollar a piece, lower prices for higher volume. I'm not sure how much Pam (in this group) is selling them for right now. It's time for Pam to list her Aquabid ID again so folks can find her there. ;-) That seems to be the one link I haven't saved... maybe I'll remember this time. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of cat.rose Sent: Thursday, December 10, 2009 11:33 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Buying Cherry Shrimp Hi there! I want to buy 1-2 cherry shrimp for my 10 gal freshwater tank to try and keep the algae down. Drs. Foster & Smith sell them but they've been "Unavailable" for sometime now. Anyone have a recommendation for another reputable on-line store to buy them? Thanks! Catherine

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 45070	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 12/10/2009
Subject: Re: Buying Cherry Shrimp

Pam, I know you're the *expert* on BN's but I think a BN Pleco gets too large for a 10G tank.. don't you? I know they're not terribly active but a wide-bodied 6" fish is a lot of bioload for a 10G tank. Maybe a Clown Pleco, 3" to 4" but still wide-bodied, so even that doesn't leave much room for many more fish. Depending on the fish, as long as they don't like eating shrimp, then algae eating shrimp are probably the best thing for a 10G. Post your Aquabid ID again so I can save it this time. :P Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of pam andress Sent: Thursday, December 10, 2009 12:47 PM To: aquaticlife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Buying Cherry Shrimp I'm here. :) Yes I have cherry shrimp. I also have green shrimp. Either will help and so will a BN (Bristle Nose Pleco). What do you have in this tank? Pam > I prefer to get my fish from breeders myself, there is another group > member here that breeds cherry shrimp (among other fish/invertebrates). > I'm sure she will speak up if she has some available (Pam you out there? > LOL). > She has very good fish and invertebrates, I and at least a few other > group members have gotten stuff from Pam in the past and everything > arrived in great condition. > Also you can check www.aquabid.com it's like ebay but for aquatic > stuff, I get fish on there now and then. > > Amber > > cat.rose wrote: > > > > Hi there! > > > > I want to buy 1-2 cherry shrimp for my 10 gal freshwater tank to try > > and keep the algae down. Drs. Foster & Smith sell them but they've > > been "Unavailable" for sometime now. > > > > Anyone have a recommendation for another reputable on-line store to > > buy them? > > > > Thanks! > > Catherine

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 45071	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 12/10/2009
Subject: Re: Deep Water Air Pumps

I think a Rena Air Pump would work. They are strong air pumps... especially compared to a Tetratec. We had a thread out here a while back (but not too long ago) where someone had the same before and after pumps and was very happy with the Rena pump. I think he/she said it was actually too powerful for what they wanted so they had to add a bleeder valve to slow it down a little. Get the next size (or two) up from what Rena recommends for a 100G since your tank is so deep. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of cobra427lady Sent: Thursday, December 10, 2009 10:21 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Deep Water Air Pumps Any recommendastions out there for a deep water air pump? The tank is 100 gallon tall hex - about 36 inches deep. Have a Tetratec DW96 but the darn thing is not putting out enough air to blow out a candle! I want to run it on 1 12" air wand and 2 air stones.....any assistance is appreciated. Thanks, Clare

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 45072	From: pam andress	Date: 12/10/2009
Subject: Re: Buying Cherry Shrimp

Hi Lenny, Thats why I asked what she had in the tank. I also don't think just sending 1 or 2 shrimp is cost effective with shipping charges. Especially at this time of year when a heat pack has to be added. If she has a larger tank that she could transfer the pleco into later, then it would be ok for a while. Pam ucdxmisty on Aquabid To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com From: GoldLenny@... Date: Thu, 10 Dec 2009 13:29:14 -0600 Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Buying Cherry Shrimp Pam, I know you're the *expert* on BN's but I think a BN Pleco gets too large for a 10G tank.. don't you? I know they're not terribly active but a wide-bodied 6" fish is a lot of bioload for a 10G tank. Maybe a Clown Pleco, 3" to 4" but still wide-bodied, so even that doesn't leave much room for many more fish. Depending on the fish, as long as they don't like eating shrimp, then algae eating shrimp are probably the best thing for a 10G. Post your Aquabid ID again so I can save it this time. :P Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of pam andress Sent: Thursday, December 10, 2009 12:47 PM To: aquaticlife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Buying Cherry Shrimp I'm here. :) Yes I have cherry shrimp. I also have green shrimp. Either will help and so will a BN (Bristle Nose Pleco). What do you have in this tank? Pam > I prefer to get my fish from breeders myself, there is another group > member here that breeds cherry shrimp (among other fish/invertebrates). > I'm sure she will speak up if she has some available (Pam you out there? > LOL). > She has very good fish and invertebrates, I and at least a few other > group members have gotten stuff from Pam in the past and everything > arrived in great condition. > Also you can check www.aquabid.com it's like ebay but for aquatic > stuff, I get fish on there now and then. > > Amber > > cat.rose wrote: > > > > Hi there! > > > > I want to buy 1-2 cherry shrimp for my 10 gal freshwater tank to try > > and keep the algae down. Drs. Foster & Smith sell them but they've > > been "Unavailable" for sometime now. > > > > Anyone have a recommendation for another reputable on-line store to > > buy them? > > > > Thanks! > > Catherine [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 45073	From: Kathy	Date: 12/10/2009
Subject: question

Hi all, Pisces appears to be gaining weight around the abdominal cavity....does this mean he's bloated? Should I cut back on his food? About six weeks ago I had started feeding him TINY (food totaling the size of his eye) meals twice a day because several people here suggested that a betta as active as he is needs more than one tiny meal a day (he lives in a 4 gallon bowl, so he gets a lot more exercise than a betta in a small bowl would). If he is indeed bloated, what should I do about it? Will reducing his food to one meal a day suffice? Should I still alternate bloodworms and flakes? Any help would be appreciated! -Kathy

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 45074	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 12/10/2009
Subject: Re: New to the Group

I'm getting in late on this thread. Not sure why, but your email (and Amber's reply) went to my junk mail folder with Gmail. It's fixed now. What kind of loaches? Some stay quite small but others get quite large. That Peacock Eel, Macrognathus siamensis, grows to around 11" according to Fishbase... http://www.fishbase.org/summary/SpeciesSummary.php?id=50400 The reason I'm bring this up is that is too BIG of a fish for a 40G tank and while things might be fine now, as these fish grow, they put out more and more hormones and waste and you will likely see stunting and related health issues. Plus, the Peacock Eel is mostly carnivorous and mostly nocturnal so you could find it eating some of your fish if it can't find enough other food in the middle of the night. Read the Fishbase profile and other info below. Here's another *warning* on another profile that I usually do not go to since Mongabay is my preferred site, http://animal-world.com/encyclo/fresh/Eels/PeacockEel.php (SNIP) Peacock Eels are peaceful fish that can be kept in a community tank with larger fish. As you can see from the photo above where this adult specimen is housed with a Jack Dempsey cichlid, they are great with a variety of tankmates. Unlike many of the spiny eels, this species will also get along well with others of its own kind as long as they are of a similar size. (END SNIP)(NOTE THAT THIS SAYS LARGER FISH AND CONSPECIFICS OF SIMILAR SIZE... PROBABLY MEANING IT WILL EAT SMALLER SPECIES). http://fish.mongabay.com/species/Mastacembelus_siamensis.html - Mongabay says they grow to 16" and the SC section (Suggested Companions) says: "...SC: Large Gouramis, Knifefish, Giant Danios, large Loaches, Loricarids, Eartheaters, Acaras, Cichlasomines, Asian Catfish...", which further reinforces my belief that you may have problems with this fish in a community tank with smaller fish. Since I was replying as I was reading your email, I now realize you do have a much larger tank... which is good... but because it's such a tall tank, you still have territory issues on the bottom, as you stated, but if you read all of the Mongabay profiles on each of your fishes, then by splitting up the fish into the two tanks, you might be able to work something out. It depends on what kind of loaches you have. You can speed up your fishless cycle on the big tank by using some of your filter media from your existing tank, in your new filter and then dosing daily with plain ammonia until it's cycling 5ppm per day and then you'll be ready. This could happen in a few days to a week depending on how much filter media you are able to use. If you can't use any filter media, then squeeze your old filter media into a bowl and add this dirty juice to the new filter to get the cycling jump started. If you split up the fish and split up the filter media proportionately, then you might be able to do it all at the same time. While the CaribSea substrate products are good, I'm not sure it aids with cycling like it claims. It came out around the same time as other bottled bacteria products, like Cycle, etc., but none of these products actually had the right strains of bacteria. Dr. Tim Hovanec, using genetics and lab testing, identified the correct nitrifying bacteria and came out with Bio-Spira several years ago. Since then, Marineland was bought out and he left to form his own company, http://www.DrTimsAquatics.com and sells an improved version of the bacteria in a bottle now and since Tetra bought out Marineland, they also came out with a product but I would trust Dr. Tim's product over Tetra, any day, any time. Both of these products are covered by various patents so other companies cannot just copy them. I know people who have used his products with success whereas I can't vouch for Tetra's product... and besides, Dr. Tim is a member of this group and regularly pops in when things come up about his products. I've even seen him pop up and replace the product for someone who got it in the middle of winter, last year, and it had frozen so it wasn't good any longer. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of cobra427lady Sent: Tuesday, December 08, 2009 8:48 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] New to the Group Hi, All: wanted to introduce myself and get some feedback on a new set up I am tackling....this post will be kinda long so I apologize in advance :-) I currently have a 40G that is thriving - it is a mixed community (4 dwarf rams, 3 bleedingheart tetras, 3 platys, 2 dwarf gouramis, 1 angel, 3 loaches, 9 runmmynose tetras, 1 bushynose pleco and 1 striped peacock eel). I run an Eheim 2236 canister and a powerhead for extra flow, which the fishes really like. No problems to relate....I love the set up. However, I recently received a 100G tall hex with stand and an Eheim Pro II filter (free so could not pass it up). I don't mind saying that it's size is a bit daunting and after ascertaining it will hold water, I am now in the process of figuring out what to do with it/put in it, etc...that's why I joined your group. I will be starting the cycling process this week and will be using freshwater live substrate from CaribSea which might shorten the cycling a bit but I have time to decide what to do....any one have now or ever have a tall hex? Difficulties/benefits??? I know that due to surface area, I am restricted in the number of fish as opposed to a 100G long tank, but quantity is not important to me.....a healthy & pleasing environment is. Looking forward to any and all helpful comments/suggestions. Thanks, Clare

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 45075	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 12/10/2009
Subject: Re: question

Do you use the dried bloodworms, or the frozen kind? If you use the dried ones are you pre-soaking them before putting them in the tank? I usually give my betta a day or 2 of no food to clean out his system, to help keep him from getting bloated. Feeding your betta the inside of a squished frozen pea will help reduce constipation if that is the problem, just squish the insides out of the pea (after soaking them in warm water for a little while to help soften and defrost them a bit) with a fork to make it small bite sized pieces and you might have to use a pair of tweezers to wiggle it around in the tank so the betta comes over to eat it, otherwise he may ignore it. Sometimes you have to entice them a little ;) LOL. Amber Kathy wrote: > > Hi all, > Pisces appears to be gaining weight around the abdominal > cavity....does this mean he's bloated? Should I cut back on his food? > About six weeks ago I had started feeding him TINY (food totaling the > size of his eye) meals twice a day because several people here > suggested that a betta as active as he is needs more than one tiny > meal a day (he lives in a 4 gallon bowl, so he gets a lot more > exercise than a betta in a small bowl would). > If he is indeed bloated, what should I do about it? Will reducing his > food to one meal a day suffice? Should I still alternate bloodworms > and flakes? > Any help would be appreciated! > -Kathy > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 45076	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 12/10/2009
Subject: Re: New to the Group

Oh yeah.. the other problem with really tall tanks is lighting for plants. If you want live plants, you'll have to have them up on platforms of some sort so they are in the upper half of the tank... unless you plan on buying expensive halogen type lighting... or maybe some of the new LED lighting might work also. Normal fluorescent and even CFL's, HO or VHO will probably not penetrate that deep. If you aquascape with rocks, you could put the plants on containers on top of the rocks or you could put in a foam background that had camouflage shelves. Or, since it's a hex, a center rock-scape with some caves for your eel or loaches (if they're compatible) and still some plants around the top of the rock pile. You could also put some clear/plexiglass shelves, siliconed to the glass in the back to hold some potted plants. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Amber Berglund Sent: Tuesday, December 08, 2009 10:01 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] New to the Group I have never had one that large, but I loved my hex tank (now if only my parents would give it back, LOL). It's true that you can't keep as many fish in it compared to a 100 gallon LONG tank, but it's still a nice sized tank. I would for one thing move your 1 angel over to that bigger tank as it's putting your current bioload up a bit higher on that 40 gallon, my 2 Angelfish currently have their own tank of 55 gallon's to themselves, not to mention they tend to get fairly aggressive at some point (not all of them do, but some can be nasty to other fish and nip at them at times, especially slower moving fish). If you move your angel that lets you get other semi aggressive type fish and keep your 40 gallon as a community tank. Amber cobra427lady wrote: > > Hi, All: > wanted to introduce myself and get some feedback on a new set up I am > tackling....this post will be kinda long so I apologize in advance :-) > I currently have a 40G that is thriving - it is a mixed community (4 > dwarf rams, 3 bleedingheart tetras, 3 platys, 2 dwarf gouramis, 1 > angel, 3 loaches, 9 runmmynose tetras, 1 bushynose pleco and 1 striped > peacock eel). I run an Eheim 2236 canister and a powerhead for extra > flow, which the fishes really like. No problems to relate....I love > the set up. > However, I recently received a 100G tall hex with stand and an Eheim > Pro II filter (free so could not pass it up). I don't mind saying that > it's size is a bit daunting and after ascertaining it will hold water, > I am now in the process of figuring out what to do with it/put in it, > etc...that's why I joined your group. > I will be starting the cycling process this week and will be using > freshwater live substrate from CaribSea which might shorten the > cycling a bit but I have time to decide what to do....any one have now > or ever have a tall hex? Difficulties/benefits??? I know that due to > surface area, I am restricted in the number of fish as opposed to a > 100G long tank, but quantity is not important to me.....a healthy & > pleasing environment is. > Looking forward to any and all helpful comments/suggestions. > Thanks, > Clare > > ------------------------------------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the home page. Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com to receive the digest, which includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com for the No E-Mail option where you will still be able to read messages on the group and post replies. Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com to receive individual e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 45077	From: cobra427lady	Date: 12/10/2009
Subject: Re: New to the Group

Thanks, Lenny - I was certainly thinking of putting some of the soon-to-be larger fishes from the 40 into to 100... and I value all of your suggestions - you are a veritable fount of information. The eel will certainly go into the 100G and I have an outlet for my clown loaches as I have a LFS which will take them after they outgrow my environments (who knows, I may even have an even larger tank by then LOL). My cycling is going well; I did add some media from the 40G Eheim canister to my 100G Eheim canister to jumpstart things along with the CaribSea live substrate and Cycle product; I have taken initial tests of the water and all looks really good. Just giving everything time to settle in while I soak my driftwood a few days and decide on how to decorate it since I have decided I am going to make it a similar theme as in the 40G. Then I will start thinking more seriously about the occupants :-) Thanks for you answer and I hope that I can contact you with any future queries.... Cheers, Clare --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@...> wrote: > > I'm getting in late on this thread. Not sure why, but your email (and > Amber's reply) went to my junk mail folder with Gmail. It's fixed now. > > What kind of loaches? Some stay quite small but others get quite large. > > That Peacock Eel, Macrognathus siamensis, grows to around 11" according to > Fishbase... http://www.fishbase.org/summary/SpeciesSummary.php?id=50400 > > The reason I'm bring this up is that is too BIG of a fish for a 40G tank and > while things might be fine now, as these fish grow, they put out more and > more hormones and waste and you will likely see stunting and related health > issues. Plus, the Peacock Eel is mostly carnivorous and mostly nocturnal so > you could find it eating some of your fish if it can't find enough other > food in the middle of the night. Read the Fishbase profile and other info > below. > > Here's another *warning* on another profile that I usually do not go to > since Mongabay is my preferred site, > http://animal-world.com/encyclo/fresh/Eels/PeacockEel.php > (SNIP) > Peacock Eels are peaceful fish that can be kept in a community tank with > larger fish. As you can see from the photo above where this adult specimen > is housed with a Jack Dempsey cichlid, they are great with a variety of > tankmates. Unlike many of the spiny eels, this species will also get along > well with others of its own kind as long as they are of a similar size. (END > SNIP)(NOTE THAT THIS SAYS LARGER FISH AND CONSPECIFICS OF SIMILAR SIZE... > PROBABLY MEANING IT WILL EAT SMALLER SPECIES). > > http://fish.mongabay.com/species/Mastacembelus_siamensis.html - Mongabay > says they grow to 16" and the SC section (Suggested Companions) says: > "...SC: Large Gouramis, Knifefish, Giant Danios, large Loaches, Loricarids, > Eartheaters, Acaras, Cichlasomines, Asian Catfish...", which further > reinforces my belief that you may have problems with this fish in a > community tank with smaller fish. > > Since I was replying as I was reading your email, I now realize you do have > a much larger tank... which is good... but because it's such a tall tank, > you still have territory issues on the bottom, as you stated, but if you > read all of the Mongabay profiles on each of your fishes, then by splitting > up the fish into the two tanks, you might be able to work something out. It > depends on what kind of loaches you have. > > You can speed up your fishless cycle on the big tank by using some of your > filter media from your existing tank, in your new filter and then dosing > daily with plain ammonia until it's cycling 5ppm per day and then you'll be > ready. This could happen in a few days to a week depending on how much > filter media you are able to use. If you can't use any filter media, then > squeeze your old filter media into a bowl and add this dirty juice to the > new filter to get the cycling jump started. If you split up the fish and > split up the filter media proportionately, then you might be able to do it > all at the same time. > > While the CaribSea substrate products are good, I'm not sure it aids with > cycling like it claims. It came out around the same time as other bottled > bacteria products, like Cycle, etc., but none of these products actually had > the right strains of bacteria. Dr. Tim Hovanec, using genetics and lab > testing, identified the correct nitrifying bacteria and came out with > Bio-Spira several years ago. Since then, Marineland was bought out and he > left to form his own company, http://www.DrTimsAquatics.com and sells an > improved version of the bacteria in a bottle now and since Tetra bought out > Marineland, they also came out with a product but I would trust Dr. Tim's > product over Tetra, any day, any time. Both of these products are covered > by various patents so other companies cannot just copy them. I know people > who have used his products with success whereas I can't vouch for Tetra's > product... and besides, Dr. Tim is a member of this group and regularly pops > in when things come up about his products. I've even seen him pop up and > replace the product for someone who got it in the middle of winter, last > year, and it had frozen so it wasn't good any longer. > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right > side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 45078	From: cobra427lady	Date: 12/10/2009
Subject: Re: Deep Water Air Pumps

Thanks - purchased a Rena Air 400 today and it's working just fine -thanks for your suggestion :-) Clare --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, Kevin Boyle <synoman1@...> wrote: > > > > > > i have one of these DAPMH15 and it works well one of the tanks is an 80 gal XH and it runs an airstone in this and 6 other tanks not quite as deep. > > > > http://www.jehmco.com/html/diaphragm_air_pumps.html > > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "cobra427lady" <clare@...> > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Sent: Thursday, December 10, 2009 11:20:37 AM GMT -05:00 US/Canada Eastern > Subject: [AquaticLife] Deep Water Air Pumps > >   > > > > > Any recommendastions out there for a deep water air pump? The tank is 100 gallon tall hex - about 36 inches deep. Have a Tetratec DW96 but the darn thing is not putting out enough air to blow out a candle! I want to run it on 1 12" air wand and 2 air stones.....any assistance is appreciated. > Thanks, > Clare > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 45079	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 12/10/2009
Subject: Re: Update on my sick Angelfish

Since it's so much harder for us to see what you're seeing, try going to this page, http://web.archive.org/web/20051217230513/http://www.fishpalace.org/disease. html If link breaks, http://preview.tinyurl.com/2m83ee This is an Archived website of a site that has been on the net for years and years but recently, the owner quit paying or something and the site got shut down... fortunately, the Internet Archive Wayback Machine has it saved. There are hundreds of pictures and since it's an archived site, it may take a little while to load, depending on your internet speed, even though the pics are only thumbnails. You can click on a pic to see a larger image. The links at the top of the page, going to each section just makes things slower as the entire page needs to reload so just scroll down to each section and look over the photos and read the descriptions. Some of the treatments have progressed with newer meds but many are still applicable. Also check out the various tumors. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of greyclouds99 Sent: Thursday, December 10, 2009 4:57 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Update on my sick Angelfish Ray, Lenny, it doesn't look like a sack, because the necrosis is getting deeper today that I can see "light" through it, which is certainly coming through the eyeball. I went to the city this morning to get the "SILAZON", unfortunately the only packs I found were expired on Feb2009, I brought one of them anyway "for free of course", just in case you advised me to try it anyway. On the other hand, I just performed a 50% water change, but didn't yet add all the needed volume of "conditioned" water back to avoid big temperature changes. I'm adding SALT gradually, and waiting your reply wheather or not I should add the "expired" SILAZON. Are there any confirmation wheather this fish is in a lot of pain? Should I just end its life to relieve it? She's moving and eating normally now, as elegant as any other Angelfish would be. P.S: To Ray, I performed thorough gravel vaccuming on all the three tanks as you recommended. Tristan --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, sevenspringss@... wrote: > > Tristan, Continuing with what I had just posted, and adding to > Lenny's remarks, I too feel this may not be what's normally diagnosed as "Pop-Eye" > (Exophthalmus) as I've never seen this condition develop as a sack > coming out from behind the eye either. Instead, just as Lenny > describes, I've always seen it as the eyeball itself swelling to > several times its normal size from the build-up of fluids within it -- > but nothing that would push the eyeball out as a separate sack. Of > course, while this sack would seem to be a manifestation of some other > malady, there's nothing to say that Pop-Eye could not be accompanying this other malady. > > This medication you refer to as "SILAZON" seems quite reminiscent of > API's (Aquarium Pharmaceutical's) Triple-Sulfa too, just as it reminded Lenny of. > I do note two differences though; besides the same Sulfathiazole, > Triple-Sulfa contains Sulfamethazine and Sulfacetamide, rather than > the Sulfadiazine and Sulfamemidine that SILAZON uses. I don't know > how significant this is, or how differently the one medication may > behave from the other (or even if it does), as I'm not a chemist. > Often, different manufacturers use similar yet different names for the > same medications, so I don't know if in fact these are all the same > ingredients or not. Maybe Lenny could find some links to these particular sulfa drugs to research any similarities between them. > > As you described this SILAZON as treating both externally and > internally, I found this to be of very possible extreme benefit in > treating this (these?) maladie(s), and recommended its use based on > your description of its activity. I'm trusting that it still will be. > However, I wish to point out that to the best of my knowledge, the > Triple-Sulfa that both Lenny and I are most familiar with does not > treat for internal issues; it is not readily absorbable internally. > Additionally, while Triple Sulfa is often described as a > broad-spectrum medication, this IS one of the few such identified > medications that primarily ONLY treat against Gram-Negative bacteria, > and very FEW Gram-Positive pathogens. Likewise, it does NOT treat anaerobic bacteria such as Pseudomonas or Aeromonas as would cause Pop-Eye (a Gram-Positive pathogen). > I do hope that this SILAZON would be effective against this though, if > this > (Pop-Eye) is part of what's affecting the eye. > > I am reminded too, that this disease may be caused by Tetrahymena, a > ciliated Protozoan resembling a similar Ciliate -- Ichthyophthirius (Ich). > Coincidentally, in the aquarium, it resides in organic material at the > bottom. It manifests itself as Exophthalmia -- a swelled, popped out > eye similar to the more frequently encountered Pop-Eye disease. > Unfortunately, there is no known cure for this. Ray

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 45080	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 12/10/2009
Subject: Re: Update on my sick Angelfish

Yep... unless one knows their source water chemistry and knows it to be very similar, if not identical to their tank's water chemistry, in which case, larger PWC's are not as risky. I like 25% PWC's not only for water chemistry issues but also for water temperature issues. Like in nature, it's better to do frequent smaller PWC's, then less frequent larger PWC's. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Amber Berglund Sent: Thursday, December 10, 2009 9:45 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: Update on my sick Angelfish Be careful doing such large water changes, it can easily shock a fish if you do the water change all at once and it changes your tank chemistry too much (such as pH, etc). Try to not do more than 25% at a time, wait at least an hour if not more, and then do your 2nd water change if you really need to. Changing too much water at once can easily do more harm than good sometimes, I've learned this the hard way in the past. Amber greyclouds99 wrote: > > Ray, Lenny, it doesn't look like a sack, because the necrosis is > getting deeper today that I can see "light" through it, which is > certainly coming through the eyeball. > I went to the city this morning to get the "SILAZON", unfortunately > the only packs I found were expired on Feb2009, I brought one of them > anyway "for free of course", just in case you advised me to try it > anyway. > > On the other hand, I just performed a 50% water change, but didn't yet > add all the needed volume of "conditioned" water back to avoid big > temperature changes. I'm adding SALT gradually, and waiting your reply > wheather or not I should add the "expired" SILAZON. > > Are there any confirmation wheather this fish is in a lot of pain? > Should I just end its life to relieve it? She's moving and eating > normally now, as elegant as any other Angelfish would be. > > P.S: To Ray, I performed thorough gravel vaccuming on all the three > tanks as you recommended. > > Tristan > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>, sevenspringss@... wrote: > > > > Tristan, Continuing with what I had just posted, and adding to > > Lenny's remarks, I too feel this may not be what's normally > > diagnosed as > "Pop-Eye" > > (Exophthalmus) as I've never seen this condition develop as a sack > coming out > > from behind the eye either. Instead, just as Lenny describes, I've > always > > seen it as the eyeball itself swelling to several times its normal > size from > > the build-up of fluids within it -- but nothing that would push the > eyeball > > out as a separate sack. Of course, while this sack would seem to be > > a manifestation of some other malady, there's nothing to say that > Pop-Eye could not > > be accompanying this other malady. > > > > This medication you refer to as "SILAZON" seems quite reminiscent of > API's > > (Aquarium Pharmaceutical's) Triple-Sulfa too, just as it reminded > Lenny of. > > I do note two differences though; besides the same Sulfathiazole, > > Triple-Sulfa contains Sulfamethazine and Sulfacetamide, rather than > the Sulfadiazine > > and Sulfamemidine that SILAZON uses. I don't know how significant > this is, > > or how differently the one medication may behave from the other (or > even if > > it does), as I'm not a chemist. Often, different manufacturers use > similar > > yet different names for the same medications, so I don't know if in > fact > > these are all the same ingredients or not. Maybe Lenny could find > some links > > to these particular sulfa drugs to research any similarities between > them. > > > > As you described this SILAZON as treating both externally and > internally, I > > found this to be of very possible extreme benefit in treating this > (these?) > > maladie(s), and recommended its use based on your description of its > > activity. I'm trusting that it still will be. However, I wish to > point out that > > to the best of my knowledge, the Triple-Sulfa that both Lenny and I > are most > > familiar with does not treat for internal issues; it is not readily > > absorbable internally. Additionally, while Triple Sulfa is often > described as a > > broad-spectrum medication, this IS one of the few such identified > medications > > that primarily ONLY treat against Gram-Negative bacteria, and very > > FEW Gram-Positive pathogens. Likewise, it does NOT treat anaerobic > bacteria such as > > Pseudomonas or Aeromonas as would cause Pop-Eye (a Gram-Positive > pathogen). > > I do hope that this SILAZON would be effective against this though, > if this > > (Pop-Eye) is part of what's affecting the eye. > > > > I am reminded too, that this disease may be caused by Tetrahymena, a > > ciliated Protozoan resembling a similar Ciliate -- Ichthyophthirius > (Ich). > > Coincidentally, in the aquarium, it resides in organic material at > the bottom. It > > manifests itself as Exophthalmia -- a swelled, popped out eye > similar to > > the more frequently encountered Pop-Eye disease. Unfortunately, > there is no > > known cure for this. Ray > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 45081	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 12/10/2009
Subject: Re: New to the Group

If you added filter media you need to add fish or ammonia to keep the tank cycled or the bacteria will slowly die off (rather quickly without ammonia/nitrites to feed it too). You might want to move at least 1 fish over to the 100 gallon since you have a filter running on it with cycled media. Amber cobra427lady wrote: > > Thanks, Lenny - I was certainly thinking of putting some of the > soon-to-be larger fishes from the 40 into to 100... and I value all of > your suggestions - you are a veritable fount of information. > The eel will certainly go into the 100G and I have an outlet for my > clown loaches as I have a LFS which will take them after they outgrow > my environments (who knows, I may even have an even larger tank by > then LOL). > My cycling is going well; I did add some media from the 40G Eheim > canister to my 100G Eheim canister to jumpstart things along with the > CaribSea live substrate and Cycle product; I have taken initial tests > of the water and all looks really good. Just giving everything time to > settle in while I soak my driftwood a few days and decide on how to > decorate it since I have decided I am going to make it a similar theme > as in the 40G. Then I will start thinking more seriously about the > occupants :-) > Thanks for you answer and I hope that I can contact you with any > future queries.... > Cheers, > Clare > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>, "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" > <GoldLenny@...> wrote: > > > > I'm getting in late on this thread. Not sure why, but your email (and > > Amber's reply) went to my junk mail folder with Gmail. It's fixed now. > > > > What kind of loaches? Some stay quite small but others get quite large. > > > > That Peacock Eel, Macrognathus siamensis, grows to around 11" > according to > > Fishbase... > http://www.fishbase.org/summary/SpeciesSummary.php?id=50400 > <http://www.fishbase.org/summary/SpeciesSummary.php?id=50400> > > > > The reason I'm bring this up is that is too BIG of a fish for a 40G > tank and > > while things might be fine now, as these fish grow, they put out > more and > > more hormones and waste and you will likely see stunting and related > health > > issues. Plus, the Peacock Eel is mostly carnivorous and mostly > nocturnal so > > you could find it eating some of your fish if it can't find enough other > > food in the middle of the night. Read the Fishbase profile and other > info > > below. > > > > Here's another *warning* on another profile that I usually do not go to > > since Mongabay is my preferred site, > > http://animal-world.com/encyclo/fresh/Eels/PeacockEel.php > <http://animal-world.com/encyclo/fresh/Eels/PeacockEel.php> > > (SNIP) > > Peacock Eels are peaceful fish that can be kept in a community tank with > > larger fish. As you can see from the photo above where this adult > specimen > > is housed with a Jack Dempsey cichlid, they are great with a variety of > > tankmates. Unlike many of the spiny eels, this species will also get > along > > well with others of its own kind as long as they are of a similar > size. (END > > SNIP)(NOTE THAT THIS SAYS LARGER FISH AND CONSPECIFICS OF SIMILAR > SIZE... > > PROBABLY MEANING IT WILL EAT SMALLER SPECIES). > > > > http://fish.mongabay.com/species/Mastacembelus_siamensis.html > <http://fish.mongabay.com/species/Mastacembelus_siamensis.html> - Mongabay > > says they grow to 16" and the SC section (Suggested Companions) says: > > "...SC: Large Gouramis, Knifefish, Giant Danios, large Loaches, > Loricarids, > > Eartheaters, Acaras, Cichlasomines, Asian Catfish...", which further > > reinforces my belief that you may have problems with this fish in a > > community tank with smaller fish. > > > > Since I was replying as I was reading your email, I now realize you > do have > > a much larger tank... which is good... but because it's such a tall > tank, > > you still have territory issues on the bottom, as you stated, but if you > > read all of the Mongabay profiles on each of your fishes, then by > splitting > > up the fish into the two tanks, you might be able to work something > out. It > > depends on what kind of loaches you have. > > > > You can speed up your fishless cycle on the big tank by using some > of your > > filter media from your existing tank, in your new filter and then dosing > > daily with plain ammonia until it's cycling 5ppm per day and then > you'll be > > ready. This could happen in a few days to a week depending on how much > > filter media you are able to use. If you can't use any filter media, > then > > squeeze your old filter media into a bowl and add this dirty juice > to the > > new filter to get the cycling jump started. If you split up the fish and > > split up the filter media proportionately, then you might be able to > do it > > all at the same time. > > > > While the CaribSea substrate products are good, I'm not sure it aids > with > > cycling like it claims. It came out around the same time as other > bottled > > bacteria products, like Cycle, etc., but none of these products > actually had > > the right strains of bacteria. Dr. Tim Hovanec, using genetics and lab > > testing, identified the correct nitrifying bacteria and came out with > > Bio-Spira several years ago. Since then, Marineland was bought out > and he > > left to form his own company, http://www.DrTimsAquatics.com > <http://www.DrTimsAquatics.com> and sells an > > improved version of the bacteria in a bottle now and since Tetra > bought out > > Marineland, they also came out with a product but I would trust Dr. > Tim's > > product over Tetra, any day, any time. Both of these products are > covered > > by various patents so other companies cannot just copy them. I know > people > > who have used his products with success whereas I can't vouch for > Tetra's > > product... and besides, Dr. Tim is a member of this group and > regularly pops > > in when things come up about his products. I've even seen him pop up and > > replace the product for someone who got it in the middle of winter, last > > year, and it had frozen so it wasn't good any longer. > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right > > side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, > Month) > > > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 45082	From: cobra427lady	Date: 12/10/2009
Subject: Re: Deep Water Air Pumps

Thanks, Lenny - got a Rena this afternoon before I saw this post - it is working like a champ! --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@...> wrote: > > I think a Rena Air Pump would work. They are strong air pumps... especially > compared to a Tetratec. We had a thread out here a while back (but not too > long ago) where someone had the same before and after pumps and was very > happy with the Rena pump. I think he/she said it was actually too powerful > for what they wanted so they had to add a bleeder valve to slow it down a > little. > > Get the next size (or two) up from what Rena recommends for a 100G since > your tank is so deep. > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right > side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) > > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On > Behalf Of cobra427lady > Sent: Thursday, December 10, 2009 10:21 AM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Subject: [AquaticLife] Deep Water Air Pumps > > Any recommendastions out there for a deep water air pump? The tank is 100 > gallon tall hex - about 36 inches deep. Have a Tetratec DW96 but the darn > thing is not putting out enough air to blow out a candle! I want to run it > on 1 12" air wand and 2 air stones.....any assistance is appreciated. > Thanks, > Clare >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 45083	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 12/10/2009
Subject: Re: Update on my sick Angelfish

Ray and Tristan, I know Ray previously asked if I knew if any of the other Sulfa... drugs were synonyms, maybe of the same three in API's Triple Sulfa but I'm having trouble confirming this. Here's what I have found: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sulfadiazine - Lantrisul; Neotrizine; Sulfa-Triple #2; Sulfadiazine; Sulfaloid; Sulfonamides Duplex; Sulfose; Terfonyl; Triple Sulfa; Triple Sulfas; Triple Sulfoid National Institute of Health info on above - http://www.nlm.nih.gov/medlineplus/druginfo/meds/a682130.html - does not mention any synonyms. Tons of synonyms here... http://www.chemicalbook.com/ProductSynonyms.aspx?CBNumber=CB4166214&postData 3=EN&SYMBOL_Type=A http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sulfadimidine - There are non-standardizeda abbreviations for it as "sulfadimidine" (abbreviated SDI[2][3] and more commonly but less reliablyb SDD[4][5]) and as "sulfamethazine" (abbreviated SMT[6][7] and more commonly but less reliablyc SMZ[8][9]). Other names include sulfadimerazine, sulfadimezine, and sulphadimethylpyrimidine.[1] National Institute of Health info on above - None of the names were listed with the NIH. Tons of synonyms here... http://www.chemicalbook.com/ProductSynonyms.aspx?CBNumber=CB8116727&postData 3=EN&SYMBOL_Type=A http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sulfathiazole - Sulfathiazole is a short-acting sulfa drug. It used to be a common oral and topical antimicrobial until less toxic alternatives were discovered. It is still occasionally used, sometimes in combination with sulfabenzamide and sulfacetamide, and in aquariums. NIH - nothing on this sulfa drug. Seachem sells it though... http://www.seachem.com/Products/product_pages/Sulfathiazole.html - the MSDS from Seachem says it is a Veterinary drug and is therefore exempt so no MSDS is needed... probably why the NIH has nothing on it. Other synonmyms for this: http://us.chemicalbook.com/ChemicalProductProperty_US_CB6133470.aspx All of the above said, http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sulfonamide_(medicine) says: Sulfonamide is the basis of several groups of drugs. The original antibacterial sulfonamides (sometimes called simply sulfa drugs) are synthetic antimicrobial agents that contain the sulfonamide group. Some sulfonamides are also devoid of antibacterial activity, e.g., the anticonvulsant sultiame. The sulfonylureas and thiazide diuretics are newer drug groups based on the antibacterial sulfonamides. Sulfa allergies are common, hence medications containing sulfonamides are prescribed carefully. It is important to make a distinction between sulfa drugs and other sulfur-containing drugs and additives, such as sulfates and sulfites, which are chemically unrelated to the sulfonamide group, and do not cause the same hypersensitivity reactions seen in the sulfonamides. I didn't have the will to go through the tons of synonyms listed for two of the above Sulfa... drugs but there is a likelihood that they are the same as the ingredients in API's Triple Sulfa. Further, Tristan's first post about this Silazon drug said it was "licensed by A. P. Labarotories, Inc. (USA)" so I'm wondering if it's not a DBA of Aquarium Pharmaceuticals, Inc., more commonly known as the API brand of fish products. Excuse any typos since I turned off spell-check on this email... lol. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of sevenspringss@... Sent: Thursday, December 10, 2009 1:04 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: Update on my sick Angelfish Hello Tristan, By what you're saying then, I see this as the packing saying that it supposedly treats internal infections as well as external ones. At least this is a step in the right direction if it holds true; you are not expected to know whether it is or not, though. The next thing is whether or not it treats against gram-positive pathogens and whether it treats against anaerobic bacteria or not. I find nothing for SILAZON on the 'net when I do a search for it, so there's no help there. Since we don't know those answers, I would still give it a try in the absence of any other medications available near you for treating this disease. As I said, it's worth a shot after trying Minocycline. It just may not be as strong as it originally was, as Amber pointed out, but it wouldn't be harmful. I've never experienced adverse effects when accidentally overdosing with Triple Sulfa, so I wouldn't expect any bad reaction with this if you used it at 125% - 150% normal doseage to make up for any loss of potency. Longest life for such medications comes when you store them in the refrigerator, but that seldom is taken into account by LFS's. Ray

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 45084	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 12/10/2009
Subject: Re: Buying Cherry Shrimp

Pam, Mannnn.. you made me work. I went to Aquabid and did a general search on ucdxmisty and nothing. Then an advanced search and there was a way to search for a seller so I found this... http://www.aquabid.com/cgi-bin/auction/vfb.cgi?&&vfb&Ucdxmisty but that doesn't list your active auctions... or maybe you don't have any??? It seems like they should list your auctions on your Seller's home page or at least say that you don't have any but I didn't see anything. Catherine, I did look at the Cherry Shrimp auctions on Aquabid and I saw some "Buy Now" prices around $1.00 each with free shipping for 15-20 shrimp, but I also saw an open auction for 20 shrimp for $5.00 (but there's a shipping charge). But there's an 18 Cherry Shrimp auction which includes FREE shipping and is only at $8.50 right now and the auction ends 12/13. http://www.aquabid.com/cgi-bin/auction/auction.cgi?fwinverts&1260753090 Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of pam andress Sent: Thursday, December 10, 2009 1:56 PM To: aquaticlife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Buying Cherry Shrimp Hi Lenny, Thats why I asked what she had in the tank. I also don't think just sending 1 or 2 shrimp is cost effective with shipping charges. Especially at this time of year when a heat pack has to be added. If she has a larger tank that she could transfer the pleco into later, then it would be ok for a while. Pam ucdxmisty on Aquabid To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com From: GoldLenny@... Date: Thu, 10 Dec 2009 13:29:14 -0600 Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Buying Cherry Shrimp Pam, I know you're the *expert* on BN's but I think a BN Pleco gets too large for a 10G tank.. don't you? I know they're not terribly active but a wide-bodied 6" fish is a lot of bioload for a 10G tank. Maybe a Clown Pleco, 3" to 4" but still wide-bodied, so even that doesn't leave much room for many more fish. Depending on the fish, as long as they don't like eating shrimp, then algae eating shrimp are probably the best thing for a 10G. Post your Aquabid ID again so I can save it this time. :P Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of pam andress Sent: Thursday, December 10, 2009 12:47 PM To: aquaticlife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Buying Cherry Shrimp I'm here. :) Yes I have cherry shrimp. I also have green shrimp. Either will help and so will a BN (Bristle Nose Pleco). What do you have in this tank? Pam > I prefer to get my fish from breeders myself, there is another group > member here that breeds cherry shrimp (among other fish/invertebrates). > I'm sure she will speak up if she has some available (Pam you out there? > LOL). > She has very good fish and invertebrates, I and at least a few other > group members have gotten stuff from Pam in the past and everything > arrived in great condition. > Also you can check www.aquabid.com it's like ebay but for aquatic > stuff, I get fish on there now and then. > > Amber > > cat.rose wrote: > > > > Hi there! > > > > I want to buy 1-2 cherry shrimp for my 10 gal freshwater tank to try > > and keep the algae down. Drs. Foster & Smith sell them but they've > > been "Unavailable" for sometime now. > > > > Anyone have a recommendation for another reputable on-line store to > > buy them? > > > > Thanks! > > Catherine

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 45085	From: pam andress	Date: 12/10/2009
Subject: Re: Buying Cherry Shrimp

Well Lenny, you didn't find any active auctions, because I don't have any. lol I do mostly side deals, but do put up auctions on occasion. Pam To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com From: GoldLenny@... Date: Thu, 10 Dec 2009 21:33:32 -0600 Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Buying Cherry Shrimp Pam, Mannnn.. you made me work. I went to Aquabid and did a general search on ucdxmisty and nothing. Then an advanced search and there was a way to search for a seller so I found this... http://www.aquabid.com/cgi-bin/auction/vfb.cgi?&&vfb&Ucdxmisty but that doesn't list your active auctions... or maybe you don't have any??? It seems like they should list your auctions on your Seller's home page or at least say that you don't have any but I didn't see anything. Catherine, I did look at the Cherry Shrimp auctions on Aquabid and I saw some "Buy Now" prices around $1.00 each with free shipping for 15-20 shrimp, but I also saw an open auction for 20 shrimp for $5.00 (but there's a shipping charge). But there's an 18 Cherry Shrimp auction which includes FREE shipping and is only at $8.50 right now and the auction ends 12/13. http://www.aquabid.com/cgi-bin/auction/auction.cgi?fwinverts&1260753090 Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of pam andress Sent: Thursday, December 10, 2009 1:56 PM To: aquaticlife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Buying Cherry Shrimp Hi Lenny, Thats why I asked what she had in the tank. I also don't think just sending 1 or 2 shrimp is cost effective with shipping charges. Especially at this time of year when a heat pack has to be added. If she has a larger tank that she could transfer the pleco into later, then it would be ok for a while. Pam ucdxmisty on Aquabid To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com From: GoldLenny@... Date: Thu, 10 Dec 2009 13:29:14 -0600 Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Buying Cherry Shrimp Pam, I know you're the *expert* on BN's but I think a BN Pleco gets too large for a 10G tank.. don't you? I know they're not terribly active but a wide-bodied 6" fish is a lot of bioload for a 10G tank. Maybe a Clown Pleco, 3" to 4" but still wide-bodied, so even that doesn't leave much room for many more fish. Depending on the fish, as long as they don't like eating shrimp, then algae eating shrimp are probably the best thing for a 10G. Post your Aquabid ID again so I can save it this time. :P Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of pam andress Sent: Thursday, December 10, 2009 12:47 PM To: aquaticlife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Buying Cherry Shrimp I'm here. :) Yes I have cherry shrimp. I also have green shrimp. Either will help and so will a BN (Bristle Nose Pleco). What do you have in this tank? Pam > I prefer to get my fish from breeders myself, there is another group > member here that breeds cherry shrimp (among other fish/invertebrates). > I'm sure she will speak up if she has some available (Pam you out there? > LOL). > She has very good fish and invertebrates, I and at least a few other > group members have gotten stuff from Pam in the past and everything > arrived in great condition. > Also you can check www.aquabid.com it's like ebay but for aquatic > stuff, I get fish on there now and then. > > Amber > > cat.rose wrote: > > > > Hi there! > > > > I want to buy 1-2 cherry shrimp for my 10 gal freshwater tank to try > > and keep the algae down. Drs. Foster & Smith sell them but they've > > been "Unavailable" for sometime now. > > > > Anyone have a recommendation for another reputable on-line store to > > buy them? > > > > Thanks! > > Catherine [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 45086	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 12/10/2009
Subject: Re: Buying Cherry Shrimp

Oh.. one other thing Pam... when I was Googling for your aquabid seller's site, I found this forum post at http://www.piranha-fury.com/pfury/lofiversion/index.php/t175597.html which said, "... ChilDawg Sep 3 2008, 08:13 PM Hey, Vik, you might want to check out AquaBid or www.1hrauctions.com (a Saturday night-only auction site) for Cherries. I had good luck with a seller named ucdxmisty...wound up getting 30+ RCS for $10 plus $8 shipping. They're doing great!..." It looks like you have a happy camper there! ;-) Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of pam andress Sent: Thursday, December 10, 2009 1:56 PM To: aquaticlife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Buying Cherry Shrimp Hi Lenny, Thats why I asked what she had in the tank. I also don't think just sending 1 or 2 shrimp is cost effective with shipping charges. Especially at this time of year when a heat pack has to be added. If she has a larger tank that she could transfer the pleco into later, then it would be ok for a while. Pam ucdxmisty on Aquabid To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com From: GoldLenny@... Date: Thu, 10 Dec 2009 13:29:14 -0600 Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Buying Cherry Shrimp

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 45087	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 12/10/2009
Subject: Re: question

Cut back feeding for a day or two and see if he poops... or do you already see that he's pooping OK? Are you soaking the freeze-dried bloodworms for five minutes or so to make sure they are no longer dried out before feeding him? Feeding them the dried bloodworms are a common cause of digestive issues/blockage. Completely cut back on them for now. They aren't the biggest eaters of pea "meat" (pinch the green "meat" out of the skin) since they are carnivores but after not feeding him for a day or two tried feeding him some pea "meat" to see if he'll eat it. It's a natural laxative for fish and herbivores and omnivores go crazy for pea "meat"... like your little brother goes after chocolate exlax. LOL (Too bad I didn't have a little brother.... would have been fun!) I use frozen peas and just thaw some as needed. I buy one pound bags and feed them to my fish a couple times a week. My goldfish go bonkers for peas. I've seen forum posts of people buying canned (unsalted) peas and using them also. You could also buy a single pod of fresh peas on your next grocery visit (let the cashier figure out how to weigh a single pod.. LOL.. they'll probably just give it to you for free) and then use one pea and freeze the rest in plastic wrap or bag. You will have to cook the raw pea. Just soak it in some boiled water for a few minutes and that should soften it enough. It's also OK to fast fish a day or two if they are showing digestive issues and some fish keepers just do it for general purposes. In the wild, fish will often go without food... of course, humans also go without food as well but being hungry sure isn't the best feeling in the world... at least not from what I've heard. I've never really had to do it before. Below is a snip from my own references article about fish health http://goldlenny.blogspot.com/2007/02/disease-illness-diagnosis-treatment.ht ml ... (The first two and fourth are mainly about goldfish but I find that much of it is applicable to other species as well. The third link below sometimes give some strange diagnosis though so always double and triple check anything found on the web or in a book... even things we may tell you out here.) (START SNIP) Fish Poop Diagnosis: http://www.kokosgoldfish.com/GoldfishPoop.html (GoldLenny) http://www.goldfishutopia.com/information.php?pID=20&sid=47b516cf720bf290b1f 9cef759437d05 (GoldLenny) http://www.fishyfarmacy.com/fish_diseases/fecal_disorders.html (GoldLenny) http://thegab.org/forum/viewtopic.php?t=2364 (Goldfish Poop Pictures Forum Thread - with explanations)(GoldLenny) (END SNIP) Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Kathy Sent: Thursday, December 10, 2009 2:14 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] question Hi all, Pisces appears to be gaining weight around the abdominal cavity....does this mean he's bloated? Should I cut back on his food? About six weeks ago I had started feeding him TINY (food totaling the size of his eye) meals twice a day because several people here suggested that a betta as active as he is needs more than one tiny meal a day (he lives in a 4 gallon bowl, so he gets a lot more exercise than a betta in a small bowl would). If he is indeed bloated, what should I do about it? Will reducing his food to one meal a day suffice? Should I still alternate bloodworms and flakes? Any help would be appreciated! -Kathy

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 45088	From: Aaron R. Martin, cmt	Date: 12/10/2009
Subject: Re: question ~ 125 gallon tank

Here are 3 different examples of 125 gallon aquarium sizes ~ they vary depending on preference of a tank that is Wide, Tall or Long - measurements are in Inches (Length x Width x Depth) http://www.truvuaquariums.com/ma00125w.html 125 Wide Rectangular (48x24x24) http://www.truvuaquariums.com/ma00125h.html 125 High Rectangular (60x18x24) http://www.truvuaquariums.com/ma00125l.html 125 Long Rectangular (72x18x20) --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "scott johnston" <scott_johnston75@...> wrote: > > hello all been along time since i have posted anything on here but i > have a question for you all. how can you fingure out how big a tank > will be with out seeing it but knowing how many gallons it is im > wanting a 125 gallon tank but need to know the dementions of one fist > does anyone have any ideas?? thank you for your time all. >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 45089	From: pam andress	Date: 12/10/2009
Subject: Re: Buying Cherry Shrimp

Wow that's neat. Yeah that was a big sale I was having. I was over run with them at the time. Now I'm down as I almost sold everything I had at that time. Right now I have more Green shrimp then Cherry, but I still can let some go if needed. Pam To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com From: GoldLenny@... Date: Thu, 10 Dec 2009 21:40:46 -0600 Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Buying Cherry Shrimp Oh.. one other thing Pam... when I was Googling for your aquabid seller's site, I found this forum post at http://www.piranha-fury.com/pfury/lofiversion/index.php/t175597.html which said, "... ChilDawg Sep 3 2008, 08:13 PM Hey, Vik, you might want to check out AquaBid or www.1hrauctions.com (a Saturday night-only auction site) for Cherries. I had good luck with a seller named ucdxmisty...wound up getting 30+ RCS for $10 plus $8 shipping. They're doing great!..." It looks like you have a happy camper there! ;-) Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of pam andress Sent: Thursday, December 10, 2009 1:56 PM To: aquaticlife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Buying Cherry Shrimp Hi Lenny, Thats why I asked what she had in the tank. I also don't think just sending 1 or 2 shrimp is cost effective with shipping charges. Especially at this time of year when a heat pack has to be added. If she has a larger tank that she could transfer the pleco into later, then it would be ok for a while. Pam ucdxmisty on Aquabid To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com From: GoldLenny@... Date: Thu, 10 Dec 2009 13:29:14 -0600 Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Buying Cherry Shrimp [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 45090	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 12/10/2009
Subject: Re: New to the Group

It's good you're planning on rehoming the Clown Loaches. I'm not sure how well they'll do against the Peacock Eel and they get much too large for the 40G tank. I'm not sure if I made myself clear in my last post BUT fish will almost never outgrow a tank... they intentionally stunt themselves to stay small enough to live but while this sounds like a good idea, it's NOT. A stunted fish almost always has many more health issues and dies a much earlier life than a non-stunted and healthy fish. Stunting is only a temporary fix, trying to survive a little longer until it dies. Most fish grow the most and fastest in their first few years so this is why and when they need to be in the proper sized tank... from the beginning. So many fish keepers make this mistake of saying they'll get a bigger tank when the fish grows bigger... but the fish won't grow properly in the undersized tank so it's a serious Catch-22 and usually results in a very rough life for the fish... and the fish keeper too. It's just so much easier and better for both if the fish are put into a proper sized home to start with... or do not buy oversized fish for undersized tanks. OK.. I don't think I can be any clearer than that. ;-) As far as your cycling tank, if you are not adding a source of ammonia on a daily basis, then any chance of growing nitrifying bacteria will be lost and the colonies you did transfer will die off without ammonia>nitrite for a food source. The nitrogen cycle, commonly called just the "cycle" in aquaria, refers to the three bacteria, nitrosomonas, nitrosospira and nitrospira and how they convert ammonia (from fish urine, gill function and decaying waste) into nitrite and then nitrate. Nitrate is not very toxic and is controlled with partial water changes and live plants. Without the ammonia, there is no nitrogen cycle and the three bacteria will die off. Take your filter media and put it back into your inhabited tank until you are ready to move the fish. Then, at the same time that you move the filter media again, move the fish at the same time. This will automatically cycle the tank and keep the nitrifying bacteria alive since the fish will provide a source of ammonia. Since nitrifying bacteria are capable of doubling their colony size every 24-48 hours, even if you are off by a little on the amount of filter media that you transfer compared to the fish bioload, you should still see the tank fully cycled in a day or two. Monitor your ammonia, nitrite and nitrate levels the first few days to be sure that things are working as planned. Also, before moving the fish, do some cross changing of water between the two tanks so each tank has nearly identical water parameters, which will acclimate the fish to the new tank so you do not cause any shock issues to the fish. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of cobra427lady Sent: Thursday, December 10, 2009 7:25 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: New to the Group Thanks, Lenny - I was certainly thinking of putting some of the soon-to-be larger fishes from the 40 into to 100... and I value all of your suggestions - you are a veritable fount(ain) of information. The eel will certainly go into the 100G and I have an outlet for my clown loaches as I have a LFS which will take them after they outgrow my environments (who knows, I may even have an even larger tank by then LOL). My cycling is going well; I did add some media from the 40G Eheim canister to my 100G Eheim canister to jumpstart things along with the CaribSea live substrate and Cycle product; I have taken initial tests of the water and all looks really good. Just giving everything time to settle in while I soak my driftwood a few days and decide on how to decorate it since I have decided I am going to make it a similar theme as in the 40G. Then I will start thinking more seriously about the occupants :-) Thanks for you answer and I hope that I can contact you with any future queries.... Cheers, Clare --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@...> wrote: > > I'm getting in late on this thread. Not sure why, but your email (and > Amber's reply) went to my junk mail folder with Gmail. It's fixed now. > > What kind of loaches? Some stay quite small but others get quite large. > > That Peacock Eel, Macrognathus siamensis, grows to around 11" > according to Fishbase... > http://www.fishbase.org/summary/SpeciesSummary.php?id=50400 > > The reason I'm bring this up is that is too BIG of a fish for a 40G > tank and while things might be fine now, as these fish grow, they put > out more and more hormones and waste and you will likely see stunting > and related health issues. Plus, the Peacock Eel is mostly > carnivorous and mostly nocturnal so you could find it eating some of > your fish if it can't find enough other food in the middle of the > night. Read the Fishbase profile and other info below. > > Here's another *warning* on another profile that I usually do not go > to since Mongabay is my preferred site, > http://animal-world.com/encyclo/fresh/Eels/PeacockEel.php > (SNIP) > Peacock Eels are peaceful fish that can be kept in a community tank > with larger fish. As you can see from the photo above where this adult > specimen is housed with a Jack Dempsey cichlid, they are great with a > variety of tankmates. Unlike many of the spiny eels, this species will > also get along well with others of its own kind as long as they are of > a similar size. (END SNIP)(NOTE THAT THIS SAYS LARGER FISH AND CONSPECIFICS OF SIMILAR SIZE... > PROBABLY MEANING IT WILL EAT SMALLER SPECIES). > > http://fish.mongabay.com/species/Mastacembelus_siamensis.html - > Mongabay says they grow to 16" and the SC section (Suggested Companions) says: > "...SC: Large Gouramis, Knifefish, Giant Danios, large Loaches, > Loricarids, Eartheaters, Acaras, Cichlasomines, Asian Catfish...", > which further reinforces my belief that you may have problems with > this fish in a community tank with smaller fish. > > Since I was replying as I was reading your email, I now realize you do > have a much larger tank... which is good... but because it's such a > tall tank, you still have territory issues on the bottom, as you > stated, but if you read all of the Mongabay profiles on each of your > fishes, then by splitting up the fish into the two tanks, you might be > able to work something out. It depends on what kind of loaches you have. > > You can speed up your fishless cycle on the big tank by using some of > your filter media from your existing tank, in your new filter and then > dosing daily with plain ammonia until it's cycling 5ppm per day and > then you'll be ready. This could happen in a few days to a week > depending on how much filter media you are able to use. If you can't > use any filter media, then squeeze your old filter media into a bowl > and add this dirty juice to the new filter to get the cycling jump > started. If you split up the fish and split up the filter media > proportionately, then you might be able to do it all at the same time. > > While the CaribSea substrate products are good, I'm not sure it aids > with cycling like it claims. It came out around the same time as > other bottled bacteria products, like Cycle, etc., but none of these > products actually had the right strains of bacteria. Dr. Tim Hovanec, > using genetics and lab testing, identified the correct nitrifying > bacteria and came out with Bio-Spira several years ago. Since then, > Marineland was bought out and he left to form his own company, > http://www.DrTimsAquatics.com and sells an improved version of the > bacteria in a bottle now and since Tetra bought out Marineland, they > also came out with a product but I would trust Dr. Tim's product over > Tetra, any day, any time. Both of these products are covered by > various patents so other companies cannot just copy them. I know > people who have used his products with success whereas I can't vouch > for Tetra's product... and besides, Dr. Tim is a member of this group > and regularly pops in when things come up about his products. I've > even seen him pop up and replace the product for someone who got it in the middle of winter, last year, and it had frozen so it wasn't good any longer. > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles > referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically > under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) > ------------------------------------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the home page. Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com to receive the digest, which includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com for the No E-Mail option where you will still be able to read messages on the group and post replies. Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com to receive individual e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 45091	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 12/10/2009
Subject: Re: Buying Cherry Shrimp

What kind of shrimp are green shrimp? Is it just a morph of cherry "red" shrimp? I saw this with a quick Google, which shows this "green shrimp" to be a Caridina sp. The below snip claims there are several species of "green shrimp". Do you know which species you have? Are they also algae eaters like Cherry Shrimp? It seems like "green shrimp" might have a better success rate from predation since they would blend into the plants better so these might be a viable algae eater in tanks with fish that like a little shrimp snack from time to time. http://www.planetinverts.com/Green%20Shrimp.html Dark Green Shrimp Caridina sp. "Dark Green" Overview There has been a lot of confusion generated by the names "Green Shrimp," "Dark Green Shrimp," and "Green Neon Shrimp." There are several different scientific names that this shrimp has been given, and other breeders have stated that this is in fact an unnamed species of its own. (END SNIP) With the coming Christmas Holiday Season, maybe some Red and Green shrimp will make my cherry shrimp tank more festive. ;-) I wonder if they would inbreed, resulting in some mutt/plain looking shrimp? Probably so... but maybe not. Have you mixed them in the same tank with Cherry Shrimp to see if they mix breed? Cherry shrimp is a Neocaridina sp. http://www.planetinverts.com/Red%20Cherry%20Shrimp.html unless the scientific name has changed again. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of pam andress Sent: Thursday, December 10, 2009 10:52 PM To: aquaticlife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Buying Cherry Shrimp Wow that's neat. Yeah that was a big sale I was having. I was over run with them at the time. Now I'm down as I almost sold everything I had at that time. Right now I have more Green shrimp then Cherry, but I still can let some go if needed. Pam To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com From: GoldLenny@... Date: Thu, 10 Dec 2009 21:40:46 -0600 Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Buying Cherry Shrimp Oh.. one other thing Pam... when I was Googling for your aquabid seller's site, I found this forum post at http://www.piranha-fury.com/pfury/lofiversion/index.php/t175597.html which said, "... ChilDawg Sep 3 2008, 08:13 PM Hey, Vik, you might want to check out AquaBid or www.1hrauctions.com (a Saturday night-only auction site) for Cherries. I had good luck with a seller named ucdxmisty...wound up getting 30+ RCS for $10 plus $8 shipping. They're doing great!..." It looks like you have a happy camper there! ;-) Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of pam andress Sent: Thursday, December 10, 2009 1:56 PM To: aquaticlife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Buying Cherry Shrimp Hi Lenny, Thats why I asked what she had in the tank. I also don't think just sending 1 or 2 shrimp is cost effective with shipping charges. Especially at this time of year when a heat pack has to be added. If she has a larger tank that she could transfer the pleco into later, then it would be ok for a while. Pam ucdxmisty on Aquabid

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 45092	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 12/10/2009
Subject: Re: Buying Cherry Shrimp

Well, you had 58 ratings so you have at least done that many.. right? I see where you haven't been very active in the past six months though. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of pam andress Sent: Thursday, December 10, 2009 9:40 PM To: aquaticlife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Buying Cherry Shrimp Well Lenny, you didn't find any active auctions, because I don't have any. lol I do mostly side deals, but do put up auctions on occasion. Pam To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com From: GoldLenny@... Date: Thu, 10 Dec 2009 21:33:32 -0600 Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Buying Cherry Shrimp Pam, Mannnn.. you made me work. I went to Aquabid and did a general search on ucdxmisty and nothing. Then an advanced search and there was a way to search for a seller so I found this... http://www.aquabid.com/cgi-bin/auction/vfb.cgi?&&vfb&Ucdxmisty but that doesn't list your active auctions... or maybe you don't have any??? It seems like they should list your auctions on your Seller's home page or at least say that you don't have any but I didn't see anything. Catherine, I did look at the Cherry Shrimp auctions on Aquabid and I saw some "Buy Now" prices around $1.00 each with free shipping for 15-20 shrimp, but I also saw an open auction for 20 shrimp for $5.00 (but there's a shipping charge). But there's an 18 Cherry Shrimp auction which includes FREE shipping and is only at $8.50 right now and the auction ends 12/13. http://www.aquabid.com/cgi-bin/auction/auction.cgi?fwinverts&1260753090 Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of pam andress Sent: Thursday, December 10, 2009 1:56 PM To: aquaticlife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Buying Cherry Shrimp Hi Lenny, Thats why I asked what she had in the tank. I also don't think just sending 1 or 2 shrimp is cost effective with shipping charges. Especially at this time of year when a heat pack has to be added. If she has a larger tank that she could transfer the pleco into later, then it would be ok for a while. Pam ucdxmisty on Aquabid To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com From: GoldLenny@... Date: Thu, 10 Dec 2009 13:29:14 -0600 Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Buying Cherry Shrimp Pam, I know you're the *expert* on BN's but I think a BN Pleco gets too large for a 10G tank.. don't you? I know they're not terribly active but a wide-bodied 6" fish is a lot of bioload for a 10G tank. Maybe a Clown Pleco, 3" to 4" but still wide-bodied, so even that doesn't leave much room for many more fish. Depending on the fish, as long as they don't like eating shrimp, then algae eating shrimp are probably the best thing for a 10G. Post your Aquabid ID again so I can save it this time. :P Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of pam andress Sent: Thursday, December 10, 2009 12:47 PM To: aquaticlife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Buying Cherry Shrimp I'm here. :) Yes I have cherry shrimp. I also have green shrimp. Either will help and so will a BN (Bristle Nose Pleco). What do you have in this tank? Pam > I prefer to get my fish from breeders myself, there is another group > member here that breeds cherry shrimp (among other fish/invertebrates). > I'm sure she will speak up if she has some available (Pam you out there? > LOL). > She has very good fish and invertebrates, I and at least a few other > group members have gotten stuff from Pam in the past and everything > arrived in great condition. > Also you can check www.aquabid.com it's like ebay but for aquatic > stuff, I get fish on there now and then. > > Amber > > cat.rose wrote: > > > > Hi there! > > > > I want to buy 1-2 cherry shrimp for my 10 gal freshwater tank to try > > and keep the algae down. Drs. Foster & Smith sell them but they've > > been "Unavailable" for sometime now. > > > > Anyone have a recommendation for another reputable on-line store to > > buy them? > > > > Thanks! > > Catherine

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 45093	From: amejia1976	Date: 12/10/2009
Subject: Re: Planted Aquarium

Lenny, What are your thoughts on the bioballs that can be filled with carbon; would they be a good alternative to getting a HOB filter? Alex --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@...> wrote: > > Your 11/26/09 test results looks like something went dramatically wrong with > your nitrogen cycle or your test results. While the ammonia and nitrite > should be 0.0ppm, your nitrates should have some kind of reading... > especially if you had 160ppm the week before. Even if you did a few 25% > PWC's, it would only reduce the 160ppm but not down to 0.0ppm. > > For posting photos in the group's albums, go to the group's home page, > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/aquaticlife and click on the Photos > button/link, then there should be instructions. I'll be honest and admit I > do not use Yahoo Group's for hosting my online photo albums. I like using > either Flickr, Webshots or Photobucket and then you can just include a link. > > > I hesitate to recommend Flickr sometimes, now that they are owned by Yahoo, > although you do get a free account with every Yahoo ID. The reason, I do > not like using Yahoo services for online storage is that they have a history > of closing down services. Years ago, every Yahoo ID had a Photo album > associated with it and Yahoo shut that down when they could have just > migrated everything over to a Flickr account linked to the same ID. Yes, > Yahoo notified people but still, thousands of people lost all their photos. > Next, Yahoo had Geocities, which was a free website service for newbies, > which I was and still am for website design. After many years and millions > of Geocities websites, they shut that down in October of this year and > thousands, if not millions of people lost their websites, although they can > still find them on the Internet Archive Wayback Machine which archives every > website that is on the web for at least a short period of time. Yahoo also > shut down the Yahoo 360 Profiles, which was their first attempt at social > networking. I always worry that they will shut down Yahoo Group's one day. > Don't think it can happen??? Well, MSN recently shut down all of their > group's without providing a reasonable way of migrating all the information > and members over to a new group system. TONS of information was lost, but > for the Internet Archive Wayback Machine at http://www.archive.org The same > thing has also happened with AOL when they shut down their member websites. > Yes, the same thing could happen with Webshots or Photobucket which is why > it's a good idea to have the same photos hosted on two different websites... > that's what I do, just in case... as well as having them backed up on my > computer and an automatic online backup service. I use > https://mozy.com/?code=SY4ZSI since it's free for 2.5GB of files and has an > unlimited plan for under $5.00 a month. I've tried Mozy and Carbonite but I > like Mozy better... and Carbonite does not have a free version, only a trial > version. At least with Mozy, folks can back up their most important 2.5GB > of files for an unlimited time period and not have to pay if they choose not > to upgrade to a paid version. They also have their little referral program > where folks get added free storage when referring people to Mozy. I have a > paid account on my main computer and the free version on another computer > and I'm up to 6.5GB of free online storage, which is plenty enough for > documents and photos but not for music and videos if folks have lots of > them. MSN has a couple of free services for online backup also but it's not > automatic like Mozy. The automatic online backup is done on a scheduled > basis or whenever the computer is not being heavily used. I have mine set > to do backups every night. > > OK.. back to fish. > > Why did you go with the 20 feeder guppies? There are much better, safer and > humane ways to Fishless Cycle which does not harm the fish. A 99 cents > bottle of plain ammonia (Ace Hardware) can be used for fishless cycling a > tank instead of using fish... especially feeder fish which might have health > issues that you will be bringing into your tank. I also hope the shrimp > make it also. I've never heard of anyone using live shrimp to cycle a > tank... well, except for years ago, folks would actually throw a piece of > normal shrimp into their tank and let it rot away until it put out ammonia > and fishless cycled the tank. I'm not sure if this is where you got the > idea of using "shrimp"... but they shouldn't have been live shrimp, IMO. Of > course, if I couldn't find plain ammonia, then the old-fashioned "pee in the > tank" method works fine also. Just be careful up on that ladder... and make > sure you don't have to go so bad that you can't stop after an ounce or two. > ;-) > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right > side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) > > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On > Behalf Of amejia1976 > Sent: Tuesday, December 08, 2009 9:19 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Planted Aquarium > > OK, > > Thanks all for the info - I have been working overnights the past few days > and have had little time to respond/reply to your questions. > > To answer > > Amber - I am using the API master test kit for freshwater; ph, Ammonia, > Nitrate and Nitrite. Do not have a water hardness test - should I get one? > > Test Results > > 11/19/09 > Low pH @ 7.6 > High pH @ 8.0 > Ammonia @ 0 > Nitrite @ 0 > Nitrate @ 160 > > 11/26/09 > Low pH @ 6.4 > High pH @ 8.0 > Ammonia @ 0 > Nitrite @ 0 > Nitrate @ 0 > > 12/8/09 > pH @ 7.8 > Ammonia @ 0 > Nitrite @ 0 > Nitrate @ 5ppm > > Lenny > > I am sure I can find some of those high lumens bulbs here in Orlando. > > As to how I came up with the 475gph - I measure the length of the tubing > (3/4in) coming from the pump to the elbow. > > Sump has about 5g in there > > On Saturday 12/5 I did a 20% water change, cleaned the sump, tank walls, all > sponges, tank overflow box. Did not clean or touch the bioballs. I cleaned > as I figured with so many fish that died the amount of dirt was too large. I > did not have my powered gravel pump available but did use a suction type > one. Speaking of bio balls; could I use some of the ones dr fosters smith > have that can be filled with carbon should I choose to not use real plants? > > Today I did a water test. After that came back positive I added 20 feeder > guppies and 10 ghost shrimp ($3.00) just so I can see how things will work > and if the nitrifying cycle would work. That is all the fish I have in > there. I also added a screen around the overflow box as suggested; that > seems to be working by the time I left home @ 1600 east coast US. > > The tank also has a large piece of mopani drift wood and a small one. Both > were cured for over 3 weeks. > > As for the pictures I can take some. How do I post them on here? > > Alex > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@> > wrote: > > > > See Amber's reply also and answer her questions as well. > > > > There should be a shield of some sort that should be in the overflow > > box on the tank side, to keep fish/critters from getting sucked in. > > See the Images tab and the middle image on this page. > > http://www.marinedepot.com/ps_ViewItem.aspx?category=CPR_CS_Overflow_B > > oxes_E > > xternal_Overflow_Boxes_for_Aquariums&vendor=CPR&idProduct=CR1511&IdCat > > egory= > > FIOFEB&tab=2 > > > > There is the holey piece of plastic that is covering the intake side > > of the overflow and then a sponge filter covering the external part of > > the overflow so that even if a small fry should make it through the > > holes in the holey plastic, it would just end up in the overflow on > > the outside of the tank and could be netted back to the main tank. > > > > If you can't find the holey plastic material, then you should be able > > to improvise with a filter sponge block cut to fit in your overflow > > intake side. You could even have the sponge block sticking up above > > the overflow box so fish couldn't even get into the box if they wanted > > to. Here's some examples of the sponge block media. There are various > pore sizes. > > > > http://www.amazon.com/ProClear-Aquatics-Sponge-Block-Pro150/dp/B0006JL > > UTK > > > > http://www.petmountain.com/category/346/1/aquarium-foam-sponges.html > > > > http://www.thatpetplace.com/pet/prod/207322/product.web?gdftrk=xh23lc0 > > p/7HDy > > ~g3JgKLcxo30o9zaVSElqGwrCtL3k5jQStXmh90k5x6hluxJsJaQlulCLVfFRwZcBLslWd > > Qq90nr > > sxdOMuSt0~Qn~VrgN1~wFpZfIecnYmUJu4YTzw/uIo6aQYdzzrmG/HW4Wt73Yo1MqVRDOd > > MCVWZN > > IOfJv1I5QWMxjGj53tYhyMsl3sG > > > > Your 25" high tank is not conducive to as many plants since you only > > have two 25W fluorescent bulbs but if you shop carefully and find 25W > > Daylight Bulbs that give off in excess of 2,000 lumens (I've seen > > where they can go from as low as 1,250 up to 2,225 lumens) or more, > > you could probably get away with having several varieties of low light > > plants. If you've been to my blog, "Planted Tank....", you'll see my > > lists and links to many low light, easy to grow plants that would work > > without the need to upgrade your lighting. If you win the lottery, > > then you can upgrade your lighting to a nice CFL fixture and have more > > plant options but there are dozens of plants in the low light category. > > > > Like Amber said, 475GPH for a 70G tank is not excessive although it > > may be on the high side for what many fish are comfortable with and > > many plants do not like that kind of flow rate. Usually, if a fish > > doesn't like that kind of water movement, they'll find an area with lower > movement and hang out in > > that area all the time. Are you seeing this? Of course, you should > read > > profiles on each of your fish to find out what kind of ecosystem they > > prefer and then try to get compatible tank mates. I like the profiles > > on http://fish.mongabay.com as a good starting place as they also have > > a paragraph called "SC" (Suggested Companions) that lists other > > suitable tankmates that prefer similar water parameters and ecosystems. > > > > How did you come up with a 4' elevation and that actual 475 GPH? > > Actually, the useful term for pumps, besides flow rate (GPH) is head > > pressure and there are several factors that affect head pressure, from > > elbows in the plumbing and other plumbing design issues like whether > > the right size pipe was used and then how far the pump has to push the > > water back up to the discharge. Can you take a picture of your tank, > > stand, filter and plumbing from various angles? I'm still not sure what > your's even looks like. > > > > You could also test your actual flow rate using a large garbage can > > with a known water volume and then measure how long it takes to fill > > up the garbage can to a certain measured mark. 475GPH is equal to > > 7.9G per minute so if you mark off 8, 16 and 24G marks on a 30G > > garbage can, you could measure if it takes 3 minutes to reach the 24G > > mark or if it's faster or slower and then give us the actual times if > > you can't calculate it out yourself. You would want the top of the > > garbage can to be at the same height as the top of your tank. > > > > Do you have a sump tank under your main tank? How much water does the > > filter reservoir hold? You would need to add that volume to your 70G > > volume for true water volume of your system. For example, if you have > > a 20G sump tank under a 30G display tank, you could get away with > > stocking a little heavier since you have that extra 20G of water > > volume. There may still be territory issues but that's separate issue. > > > > Also, remind us of what you have left in your tank right now. I'm > > thinking just a pleco but I want to be sure and we also need to know > > what kind of pleco to figure out what other fish you can have. > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles > > referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically > > under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) > > > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] > > On Behalf Of amejia1976 > > Sent: Friday, December 04, 2009 2:23 AM > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Planted Aquarium > > > > WOW - talk about information overload - Thanks Lenny and Amber - you > > guys are so patient. > > > > Tank is still cycling as I have added 10 ghost shrimps and a feeder > > guppy here and there, also put a pantyhose on the overflow box to > > avoid the suction of death and a Plexiglas canopy to cover and reduce > evaporation. > > > > Info on my tank > > Rectangular > > 25in Height x 36in Wide x 18in Deep > > Trickle Wet/Dry Filter similar to this but rated @ 75g > > http://z.about.com/d/saltaquarium/1/0/r/Y/1/EshoppsWetDry.jpg > > > > Tank overflow box similar to this in tank - this is also where the > > fishies got sucked into and up the u-tube > > http://www.aquabuys.com/miva/graphics/00000001/pca-overflow-box.jpg > > > > Pump > > WOW - just did some digging and found out the pump is rated @ 700gph @ > > zero elevation to 50gph @ 12ft elevation. Currently my elevation is > > 4ft which gives a 475gph flow - this might be a bit much? Could this > > be why the suction onto the overflow box slits is so strong? > > http://www.harrisonsponds.com/pdf/magdrive_250_700.pdf > > > > Test Results > > 11/19/09 > > Low pH @ 7.6 > > High pH @ 8.0 > > Ammonia @ 0 > > Nitrite @ 0 > > Nitrate @ 160 > > > > 11/26/09 - this are also the exact same numbers from my tap. Testing > > was done 4 days after adding 2g of tap water. Have not done testing > > since - scheduled for this Saturday Low pH @ 6.4 High pH @ 8.0 Ammonia > > @ 0 Nitrite @ 0 Nitrate @ 0 > > > > 2 Light Ballast rated @ up to 63watts with 2 25watt bulbs > > > > Thanks again for all your assistance. > > > > Alex >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 45094	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 12/10/2009
Subject: Re: Planted Aquarium

I don't believe in using carbon full time... and I think many of the other experienced fish keepers will agree. It's simply not needed and is just another way that the product sellers try to slip their hands into our wallets... as well as with 95% of the other crap they try to push on fish keepers. Especially putting carbon in bioballs seems to be a bad thing since carbon needs to be changed every couple of weeks and you want to leave your bioballs alone as much as possible so you certainly do not want to be having to fool with them every two weeks and taking them out the water to dump old carbon and add new carbon, which could kill off some of your good nitrifying bacteria if the balls have to be out the water very long. This also seems like a LOT of work. If I was going to use carbon, like for removing a medication or contamination, I would put it in a separate media bag so that when I'm done using it, I can just remove that one bag and dump the old carbon. Now... all that said, for heavily stocked (almost all tanks with BIG fish like Goldfish, Oscars, Common Plecos, etc.), overstocked (temporarily while working on an additional tank) or even for grow-out tanks for fry, I am a proponent of Purigen which is a reusable (see my blog article about "Filter Maintenance" for more details) and it's far superior to carbon in removing dissolved organic compounds (DOC's) and other pollutants from the water. Purigen is an off-white granular product that turns to a dark brown as it gets dirty so you know when to take it out of your filter system and clean/recharge it. I use the 100ml packets of Purigen in each of my filters on my Goldfish tank and have to clean/recharge the Purigen about once a month or so but each packet lasts for more than a year for me. After I've used them for a year in my Goldfish tank, then I'll move them to one of my other tanks that are not as demanding. If I wasn't using Purigen, I still wouldn't use carbon. I still do weekly PWC's on all my tanks to remove/dilute the pollution levels. There's a saying... "Dilution is the solution to pollution..." and I think it holds true for fish keepers also. For smaller tanks, under 55G, using an HOB is fine but for larger tanks, which usually means larger and more fish, using a canister filter is the only way I would go as a canister filter's reservoir holds a LOT more filter media for filtering the water. I do have a Marineland 200 BioWheel on my 65G Goldfish tank (two fancy goldfish... around 5" to 6" long and around... and a 3" clown pleco) but it's the secondary filter to a Rena Filstar xP-2, which is the primary filter on the tank. Even with the Rena doing the bulk of the work, the two filter cartridges in the Marineland get clogged up at least weekly and have to be cleaned or the water simply over-flows the cartridges instead of passing through them. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of amejia1976 Sent: Friday, December 11, 2009 12:30 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Planted Aquarium Lenny, What are your thoughts on the bioballs that can be filled with carbon; would they be a good alternative to getting a HOB filter? Alex --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@...> wrote: > > Your 11/26/09 test results looks like something went dramatically > wrong with your nitrogen cycle or your test results. While the > ammonia and nitrite should be 0.0ppm, your nitrates should have some kind of reading... > especially if you had 160ppm the week before. Even if you did a few > 25% PWC's, it would only reduce the 160ppm but not down to 0.0ppm. > > For posting photos in the group's albums, go to the group's home page, > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/aquaticlife and click on the Photos > button/link, then there should be instructions. I'll be honest and > admit I do not use Yahoo Group's for hosting my online photo albums. > I like using either Flickr, Webshots or Photobucket and then you can just include a link. > > > I hesitate to recommend Flickr sometimes, now that they are owned by > Yahoo, although you do get a free account with every Yahoo ID. The > reason, I do not like using Yahoo services for online storage is that > they have a history of closing down services. Years ago, every Yahoo > ID had a Photo album associated with it and Yahoo shut that down when > they could have just migrated everything over to a Flickr account > linked to the same ID. Yes, Yahoo notified people but still, thousands of people lost all their photos. > Next, Yahoo had Geocities, which was a free website service for > newbies, which I was and still am for website design. After many > years and millions of Geocities websites, they shut that down in > October of this year and thousands, if not millions of people lost > their websites, although they can still find them on the Internet > Archive Wayback Machine which archives every website that is on the > web for at least a short period of time. Yahoo also shut down the > Yahoo 360 Profiles, which was their first attempt at social networking. I always worry that they will shut down Yahoo Group's one day. > Don't think it can happen??? Well, MSN recently shut down all of > their group's without providing a reasonable way of migrating all the > information and members over to a new group system. TONS of > information was lost, but for the Internet Archive Wayback Machine at > http://www.archive.org The same thing has also happened with AOL when they shut down their member websites. > Yes, the same thing could happen with Webshots or Photobucket which is > why it's a good idea to have the same photos hosted on two different websites... > that's what I do, just in case... as well as having them backed up on > my computer and an automatic online backup service. I use > https://mozy.com/?code=SY4ZSI since it's free for 2.5GB of files and > has an unlimited plan for under $5.00 a month. I've tried Mozy and > Carbonite but I like Mozy better... and Carbonite does not have a free > version, only a trial version. At least with Mozy, folks can back up > their most important 2.5GB of files for an unlimited time period and > not have to pay if they choose not to upgrade to a paid version. They > also have their little referral program where folks get added free > storage when referring people to Mozy. I have a paid account on my > main computer and the free version on another computer and I'm up to > 6.5GB of free online storage, which is plenty enough for documents and > photos but not for music and videos if folks have lots of them. MSN > has a couple of free services for online backup also but it's not > automatic like Mozy. The automatic online backup is done on a > scheduled basis or whenever the computer is not being heavily used. I have mine set to do backups every night. > > OK.. back to fish. > > Why did you go with the 20 feeder guppies? There are much better, > safer and humane ways to Fishless Cycle which does not harm the fish. > A 99 cents bottle of plain ammonia (Ace Hardware) can be used for > fishless cycling a tank instead of using fish... especially feeder > fish which might have health issues that you will be bringing into > your tank. I also hope the shrimp make it also. I've never heard of > anyone using live shrimp to cycle a tank... well, except for years > ago, folks would actually throw a piece of normal shrimp into their > tank and let it rot away until it put out ammonia and fishless cycled > the tank. I'm not sure if this is where you got the idea of using > "shrimp"... but they shouldn't have been live shrimp, IMO. Of course, > if I couldn't find plain ammonia, then the old-fashioned "pee in the > tank" method works fine also. Just be careful up on that ladder... and make sure you don't have to go so bad that you can't stop after an ounce or two. > ;-) > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles > referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically > under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) > > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] > On Behalf Of amejia1976 > Sent: Tuesday, December 08, 2009 9:19 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Planted Aquarium > > OK, > > Thanks all for the info - I have been working overnights the past few > days and have had little time to respond/reply to your questions. > > To answer > > Amber - I am using the API master test kit for freshwater; ph, > Ammonia, Nitrate and Nitrite. Do not have a water hardness test - should I get one? > > Test Results > > 11/19/09 > Low pH @ 7.6 > High pH @ 8.0 > Ammonia @ 0 > Nitrite @ 0 > Nitrate @ 160 > > 11/26/09 > Low pH @ 6.4 > High pH @ 8.0 > Ammonia @ 0 > Nitrite @ 0 > Nitrate @ 0 > > 12/8/09 > pH @ 7.8 > Ammonia @ 0 > Nitrite @ 0 > Nitrate @ 5ppm > > Lenny > > I am sure I can find some of those high lumens bulbs here in Orlando. > > As to how I came up with the 475gph - I measure the length of the > tubing > (3/4in) coming from the pump to the elbow. > > Sump has about 5g in there > > On Saturday 12/5 I did a 20% water change, cleaned the sump, tank > walls, all sponges, tank overflow box. Did not clean or touch the > bioballs. I cleaned as I figured with so many fish that died the > amount of dirt was too large. I did not have my powered gravel pump > available but did use a suction type one. Speaking of bio balls; could > I use some of the ones dr fosters smith have that can be filled with carbon should I choose to not use real plants? > > Today I did a water test. After that came back positive I added 20 > feeder guppies and 10 ghost shrimp ($3.00) just so I can see how > things will work and if the nitrifying cycle would work. That is all > the fish I have in there. I also added a screen around the overflow > box as suggested; that seems to be working by the time I left home @ 1600 east coast US. > > The tank also has a large piece of mopani drift wood and a small one. > Both were cured for over 3 weeks. > > As for the pictures I can take some. How do I post them on here? > > Alex > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" > <GoldLenny@> > wrote: > > > > See Amber's reply also and answer her questions as well. > > > > There should be a shield of some sort that should be in the overflow > > box on the tank side, to keep fish/critters from getting sucked in. > > See the Images tab and the middle image on this page. > > http://www.marinedepot.com/ps_ViewItem.aspx?category=CPR_CS_Overflow > > _B > > oxes_E > > xternal_Overflow_Boxes_for_Aquariums&vendor=CPR&idProduct=CR1511&IdC > > at > > egory= > > FIOFEB&tab=2 > > > > There is the holey piece of plastic that is covering the intake side > > of the overflow and then a sponge filter covering the external part > > of the overflow so that even if a small fry should make it through > > the holes in the holey plastic, it would just end up in the overflow > > on the outside of the tank and could be netted back to the main tank. > > > > If you can't find the holey plastic material, then you should be > > able to improvise with a filter sponge block cut to fit in your > > overflow intake side. You could even have the sponge block sticking > > up above the overflow box so fish couldn't even get into the box if > > they wanted to. Here's some examples of the sponge block media. > > There are various > pore sizes. > > > > http://www.amazon.com/ProClear-Aquatics-Sponge-Block-Pro150/dp/B0006 > > JL > > UTK > > > > http://www.petmountain.com/category/346/1/aquarium-foam-sponges.html > > > > http://www.thatpetplace.com/pet/prod/207322/product.web?gdftrk=xh23l > > c0 > > p/7HDy > > ~g3JgKLcxo30o9zaVSElqGwrCtL3k5jQStXmh90k5x6hluxJsJaQlulCLVfFRwZcBLsl > > Wd > > Qq90nr > > sxdOMuSt0~Qn~VrgN1~wFpZfIecnYmUJu4YTzw/uIo6aQYdzzrmG/HW4Wt73Yo1MqVRD > > Od > > MCVWZN > > IOfJv1I5QWMxjGj53tYhyMsl3sG > > > > Your 25" high tank is not conducive to as many plants since you only > > have two 25W fluorescent bulbs but if you shop carefully and find > > 25W Daylight Bulbs that give off in excess of 2,000 lumens (I've > > seen where they can go from as low as 1,250 up to 2,225 lumens) or > > more, you could probably get away with having several varieties of > > low light plants. If you've been to my blog, "Planted Tank....", > > you'll see my lists and links to many low light, easy to grow plants > > that would work without the need to upgrade your lighting. If you > > win the lottery, then you can upgrade your lighting to a nice CFL > > fixture and have more plant options but there are dozens of plants in the low light category. > > > > Like Amber said, 475GPH for a 70G tank is not excessive although it > > may be on the high side for what many fish are comfortable with and > > many plants do not like that kind of flow rate. Usually, if a fish > > doesn't like that kind of water movement, they'll find an area with > > lower > movement and hang out in > > that area all the time. Are you seeing this? Of course, you should > read > > profiles on each of your fish to find out what kind of ecosystem > > they prefer and then try to get compatible tank mates. I like the > > profiles on http://fish.mongabay.com as a good starting place as > > they also have a paragraph called "SC" (Suggested Companions) that > > lists other suitable tankmates that prefer similar water parameters and ecosystems. > > > > How did you come up with a 4' elevation and that actual 475 GPH? > > Actually, the useful term for pumps, besides flow rate (GPH) is head > > pressure and there are several factors that affect head pressure, > > from elbows in the plumbing and other plumbing design issues like > > whether the right size pipe was used and then how far the pump has > > to push the water back up to the discharge. Can you take a picture > > of your tank, stand, filter and plumbing from various angles? I'm > > still not sure what > your's even looks like. > > > > You could also test your actual flow rate using a large garbage can > > with a known water volume and then measure how long it takes to fill > > up the garbage can to a certain measured mark. 475GPH is equal to > > 7.9G per minute so if you mark off 8, 16 and 24G marks on a 30G > > garbage can, you could measure if it takes 3 minutes to reach the > > 24G mark or if it's faster or slower and then give us the actual > > times if you can't calculate it out yourself. You would want the > > top of the garbage can to be at the same height as the top of your tank. > > > > Do you have a sump tank under your main tank? How much water does > > the filter reservoir hold? You would need to add that volume to > > your 70G volume for true water volume of your system. For example, > > if you have a 20G sump tank under a 30G display tank, you could get > > away with stocking a little heavier since you have that extra 20G of > > water volume. There may still be territory issues but that's separate issue. > > > > Also, remind us of what you have left in your tank right now. I'm > > thinking just a pleco but I want to be sure and we also need to know > > what kind of pleco to figure out what other fish you can have. > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles > > referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, > > alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) > > > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] > > On Behalf Of amejia1976 > > Sent: Friday, December 04, 2009 2:23 AM > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Planted Aquarium > > > > WOW - talk about information overload - Thanks Lenny and Amber - you > > guys are so patient. > > > > Tank is still cycling as I have added 10 ghost shrimps and a feeder > > guppy here and there, also put a pantyhose on the overflow box to > > avoid the suction of death and a Plexiglas canopy to cover and > > reduce > evaporation. > > > > Info on my tank > > Rectangular > > 25in Height x 36in Wide x 18in Deep > > Trickle Wet/Dry Filter similar to this but rated @ 75g > > http://z.about.com/d/saltaquarium/1/0/r/Y/1/EshoppsWetDry.jpg > > > > Tank overflow box similar to this in tank - this is also where the > > fishies got sucked into and up the u-tube > > http://www.aquabuys.com/miva/graphics/00000001/pca-overflow-box.jpg > > > > Pump > > WOW - just did some digging and found out the pump is rated @ 700gph > > @ zero elevation to 50gph @ 12ft elevation. Currently my elevation > > is 4ft which gives a 475gph flow - this might be a bit much? Could > > this be why the suction onto the overflow box slits is so strong? > > http://www.harrisonsponds.com/pdf/magdrive_250_700.pdf > > > > Test Results > > 11/19/09 > > Low pH @ 7.6 > > High pH @ 8.0 > > Ammonia @ 0 > > Nitrite @ 0 > > Nitrate @ 160 > > > > 11/26/09 - this are also the exact same numbers from my tap. Testing > > was done 4 days after adding 2g of tap water. Have not done testing > > since - scheduled for this Saturday Low pH @ 6.4 High pH @ 8.0 > > Ammonia @ 0 Nitrite @ 0 Nitrate @ 0 > > > > 2 Light Ballast rated @ up to 63watts with 2 25watt bulbs > > > > Thanks again for all your assistance. > > > > Alex

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 45095	From: bill 1433	Date: 12/11/2009
Subject: Re: Planted Aquarium

Hi Len,   Purigen?  You have talked about this stuff before but exactly what is it doing for YOU in YOUR tanks.  Also after Goggling around a bit there seems to be some conflict as to exactly how this stuff is re-rejuvenated.  Care to enlighten us all on how "Lenny" does it and what it's doing for Lenny's tanks?   Bill --- On Fri, 12/11/09, Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@...> wrote: From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@...> Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: Planted Aquarium To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Date: Friday, December 11, 2009, 2:00 AM I don't believe in using carbon full time... and I think many of the other experienced fish keepers will agree.  It's simply not needed and is just another way that the product sellers try to slip their hands into our wallets... as well as with 95% of the other crap they try to push on fish keepers.  Especially putting carbon in bioballs seems to be a bad thing since carbon needs to be changed every couple of weeks and you want to leave your bioballs alone as much as possible so you certainly do not want to be having to fool with them every two weeks and taking them out the water to dump old carbon and add new carbon, which could kill off some of your good nitrifying bacteria if the balls have to be out the water very long.  This also seems like a LOT of work.  If I was going to use carbon, like for removing a medication or contamination, I would put it in a separate media bag so that when I'm done using it, I can just remove that one bag and dump the old carbon. Now... all that said, for heavily stocked (almost all tanks with BIG fish like Goldfish, Oscars, Common Plecos, etc.), overstocked (temporarily while working on an additional tank) or even for grow-out tanks for fry, I am a proponent of Purigen which is a reusable (see my blog article about "Filter Maintenance" for more details) and it's far superior to carbon in removing dissolved organic compounds (DOC's) and other pollutants from the water. Purigen is an off-white granular product that turns to a dark brown as it gets dirty so you know when to take it out of your filter system and clean/recharge it.  I use the 100ml packets of Purigen in each of my filters on my Goldfish tank and have to clean/recharge the Purigen about once a month or so but each packet lasts for more than a year for me.  After I've used them for a year in my Goldfish tank, then I'll move them to one of my other tanks that are not as demanding.  If I wasn't using Purigen, I still wouldn't use carbon.  I still do weekly PWC's on all my tanks to remove/dilute the pollution levels.  There's a saying... "Dilution is the solution to pollution..." and I think it holds true for fish keepers also. For smaller tanks, under 55G, using an HOB is fine but for larger tanks, which usually means larger and more fish, using a canister filter is the only way I would go as a canister filter's reservoir holds a LOT more filter media for filtering the water.  I do have a Marineland 200 BioWheel on my 65G Goldfish tank (two fancy goldfish... around 5" to 6" long and around... and a 3" clown pleco) but it's the secondary filter to a Rena Filstar xP-2, which is the primary filter on the tank.  Even with the Rena doing the bulk of the work, the two filter cartridges in the Marineland get clogged up at least weekly and have to be cleaned or the water simply over-flows the cartridges instead of passing through them. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of amejia1976 Sent: Friday, December 11, 2009 12:30 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Planted Aquarium Lenny, What are your thoughts on the bioballs that can be filled with carbon; would they be a good alternative to getting a HOB filter? Alex --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@...> wrote: > > Your 11/26/09 test results looks like something went dramatically > wrong with your nitrogen cycle or your test results.  While the > ammonia and nitrite should be 0.0ppm, your nitrates should have some kind of reading... > especially if you had 160ppm the week before.  Even if you did a few > 25% PWC's, it would only reduce the 160ppm but not down to 0.0ppm. > > For posting photos in the group's albums, go to the group's home page, > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/aquaticlife and click on the Photos > button/link, then there should be instructions.  I'll be honest and > admit I do not use Yahoo Group's for hosting my online photo albums.  > I like using either Flickr, Webshots or Photobucket and then you can just include a link. > > > I hesitate to recommend Flickr sometimes, now that they are owned by > Yahoo, although you do get a free account with every Yahoo ID.  The > reason, I do not like using Yahoo services for online storage is that > they have a history of closing down services.  Years ago, every Yahoo > ID had a Photo album associated with it and Yahoo shut that down when > they could have just migrated everything over to a Flickr account > linked to the same ID.  Yes, Yahoo notified people but still, thousands of people lost all their photos. > Next, Yahoo had Geocities, which was a free website service for > newbies, which I was and still am for website design.  After many > years and millions of Geocities websites, they shut that down in > October of this year and thousands, if not millions of people lost > their websites, although they can still find them on the Internet > Archive Wayback Machine which archives every website that is on the > web for at least a short period of time.  Yahoo also shut down the > Yahoo 360 Profiles, which was their first attempt at social networking.  I always worry that they will shut down Yahoo Group's one day. > Don't think it can happen???  Well, MSN recently shut down all of > their group's without providing a reasonable way of migrating all the > information and members over to a new group system.  TONS of > information was lost, but for the Internet Archive Wayback Machine at > http://www.archive.org  The same thing has also happened with AOL when they shut down their member websites. > Yes, the same thing could happen with Webshots or Photobucket which is > why it's a good idea to have the same photos hosted on two different websites... > that's what I do, just in case... as well as having them backed up on > my computer and an automatic online backup service.  I use > https://mozy.com/?code=SY4ZSI since it's free for 2.5GB of files and > has an unlimited plan for under $5.00 a month.  I've tried Mozy and > Carbonite but I like Mozy better... and Carbonite does not have a free > version, only a trial version.  At least with Mozy, folks can back up > their most important 2.5GB of files for an unlimited time period and > not have to pay if they choose not to upgrade to a paid version.  They > also have their little referral program where folks get added free > storage when referring people to Mozy.  I have a paid account on my > main computer and the free version on another computer and I'm up to > 6.5GB of free online storage, which is plenty enough for documents and > photos but not for music and videos if folks have lots of them.  MSN > has a couple of free services for online backup also but it's not > automatic like Mozy.  The automatic online backup is done on a > scheduled basis or whenever the computer is not being heavily used.  I have mine set to do backups every night. > > OK.. back to fish. > > Why did you go with the 20 feeder guppies?  There are much better, > safer and humane ways to Fishless Cycle which does not harm the fish.  > A 99 cents bottle of plain ammonia (Ace Hardware) can be used for > fishless cycling a tank instead of using fish... especially feeder > fish which might have health issues that you will be bringing into > your tank.  I also hope the shrimp make it also.  I've never heard of > anyone using live shrimp to cycle a tank... well, except for years > ago, folks would actually throw a piece of normal shrimp into their > tank and let it rot away until it put out ammonia and fishless cycled > the tank.  I'm not sure if this is where you got the idea of using > "shrimp"... but they shouldn't have been live shrimp, IMO.  Of course, > if I couldn't find plain ammonia, then the old-fashioned "pee in the > tank" method works fine also.  Just be careful up on that ladder... and make sure you don't have to go so bad that you can't stop after an ounce or two. > ;-) > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles > referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically > under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) > > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] > On Behalf Of amejia1976 > Sent: Tuesday, December 08, 2009 9:19 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Planted Aquarium > > OK, >  > Thanks all for the info - I have been working overnights the past few > days and have had little time to respond/reply to your questions. >  > To answer >  > Amber - I am using the API master test kit for freshwater; ph, > Ammonia, Nitrate and Nitrite. Do not have a water hardness test - should I get one? >  > Test Results >  > 11/19/09 > Low pH @ 7.6 > High pH @ 8.0 > Ammonia @ 0 > Nitrite @ 0 > Nitrate @ 160 > > 11/26/09 > Low pH @ 6.4 > High pH @ 8.0 > Ammonia @ 0 > Nitrite @ 0 > Nitrate @ 0 > > 12/8/09 > pH @ 7.8 > Ammonia @ 0 > Nitrite @ 0 > Nitrate @ 5ppm > > Lenny > > I am sure I can find some of those high lumens bulbs here in Orlando. > > As to how I came up with the 475gph - I measure the length of the > tubing > (3/4in) coming from the pump to the elbow. > > Sump has about 5g in there > > On Saturday 12/5 I did a 20% water change, cleaned the sump, tank > walls, all sponges, tank overflow box. Did not clean or touch the > bioballs. I cleaned as I figured with so many fish that died the > amount of dirt was too large. I did not have my powered gravel pump > available but did use a suction type one. Speaking of bio balls; could > I use some of the ones dr fosters smith have that can be filled with carbon should I choose to not use real plants? > > Today I did a water test. After that came back positive I added 20 > feeder guppies and 10 ghost shrimp ($3.00) just so I can see how > things will work and if the nitrifying cycle would work. That is all > the fish I have in there. I also added a screen around the overflow > box as suggested; that seems to be working by the time I left home @ 1600 east coast US. > > The tank also has a large piece of mopani drift wood and a small one. > Both were cured for over 3 weeks. > > As for the pictures I can take some. How do I post them on here? > > Alex > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" > <GoldLenny@> > wrote: > > > > See Amber's reply also and answer her questions as well. > > > > There should be a shield of some sort that should be in the overflow > > box on the tank side, to keep fish/critters from getting sucked in. > > See the Images tab and the middle image on this page. > > http://www.marinedepot.com/ps_ViewItem.aspx?category=CPR_CS_Overflow > > _B > > oxes_E > > xternal_Overflow_Boxes_for_Aquariums&vendor=CPR&idProduct=CR1511&IdC > > at > > egory= > > FIOFEB&tab=2 > > > > There is the holey piece of plastic that is covering the intake side > > of the overflow and then a sponge filter covering the external part > > of the overflow so that even if a small fry should make it through > > the holes in the holey plastic, it would just end up in the overflow > > on the outside of the tank and could be netted back to the main tank. > > > > If you can't find the holey plastic material, then you should be > > able to improvise with a filter sponge block cut to fit in your > > overflow intake side.  You could even have the sponge block sticking > > up above the overflow box so fish couldn't even get into the box if > > they wanted to.  Here's some examples of the sponge block media.  > > There are various > pore sizes. > > > > http://www.amazon.com/ProClear-Aquatics-Sponge-Block-Pro150/dp/B0006 > > JL > > UTK > > > > http://www.petmountain.com/category/346/1/aquarium-foam-sponges.html > > > > http://www.thatpetplace.com/pet/prod/207322/product.web?gdftrk=xh23l > > c0 > > p/7HDy > > ~g3JgKLcxo30o9zaVSElqGwrCtL3k5jQStXmh90k5x6hluxJsJaQlulCLVfFRwZcBLsl > > Wd > > Qq90nr > > sxdOMuSt0~Qn~VrgN1~wFpZfIecnYmUJu4YTzw/uIo6aQYdzzrmG/HW4Wt73Yo1MqVRD > > Od > > MCVWZN > > IOfJv1I5QWMxjGj53tYhyMsl3sG > > > > Your 25" high tank is not conducive to as many plants since you only > > have two 25W fluorescent bulbs but if you shop carefully and find > > 25W Daylight Bulbs that give off in excess of 2,000 lumens (I've > > seen where they can go from as low as 1,250 up to 2,225 lumens) or > > more, you could probably get away with having several varieties of > > low light plants.  If you've been to my blog, "Planted Tank....", > > you'll see my lists and links to many low light, easy to grow plants > > that would work without the need to upgrade your lighting.  If you > > win the lottery, then you can upgrade your lighting to a nice CFL > > fixture and have more plant options but there are dozens of plants in the low light category. > > > > Like Amber said, 475GPH for a 70G tank is not excessive although it > > may be on the high side for what many fish are comfortable with and > > many plants do not like that kind of flow rate.  Usually, if a fish > > doesn't like that kind of water movement, they'll find an area with > > lower > movement and hang out in > > that area all the time.  Are you seeing this?    Of course, you should > read > > profiles on each of your fish to find out what kind of ecosystem > > they prefer and then try to get compatible tank mates.  I like the > > profiles on http://fish.mongabay.com as a good starting place as > > they also have a paragraph called "SC" (Suggested Companions) that > > lists other suitable tankmates that prefer similar water parameters and ecosystems. > > > > How did you come up with a 4' elevation and that actual 475 GPH?  > > Actually, the useful term for pumps, besides flow rate (GPH) is head > > pressure and there are several factors that affect head pressure, > > from elbows in the plumbing and other plumbing design issues like > > whether the right size pipe was used and then how far the pump has > > to push the water back up to the discharge.  Can you take a picture > > of your tank, stand, filter and plumbing from various angles?  I'm > > still not sure what > your's even looks like. > > > > You could also test your actual flow rate using a large garbage can > > with a known water volume and then measure how long it takes to fill > > up the garbage can to a certain measured mark.  475GPH is equal to > > 7.9G per minute so if you mark off 8, 16 and 24G marks on a 30G > > garbage can, you could measure if it takes 3 minutes to reach the > > 24G mark or if it's faster or slower and then give us the actual > > times if you can't calculate it out yourself.  You would want the > > top of the garbage can to be at the same height as the top of your tank. > > > > Do you have a sump tank under your main tank?  How much water does > > the filter reservoir hold?  You would need to add that volume to > > your 70G volume for true water volume of your system.  For example, > > if you have a 20G sump tank under a 30G display tank, you could get > > away with stocking a little heavier since you have that extra 20G of > > water volume.  There may still be territory issues but that's separate issue. > > > > Also, remind us of what you have left in your tank right now.  I'm > > thinking just a pleco but I want to be sure and we also need to know > > what kind of pleco to figure out what other fish you can have. > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles > > referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, > > alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) > > > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] > > On Behalf Of amejia1976 > > Sent: Friday, December 04, 2009 2:23 AM > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Planted Aquarium > > > > WOW - talk about information overload - Thanks Lenny and Amber - you > > guys are so patient. > > > > Tank is still cycling as I have added 10 ghost shrimps and a feeder > > guppy here and there, also put a pantyhose on the overflow box to > > avoid the suction of death and a Plexiglas canopy to cover and > > reduce > evaporation. > > > > Info on my tank > > Rectangular > > 25in Height x 36in Wide x 18in Deep > > Trickle Wet/Dry Filter similar to this but rated @ 75g > > http://z.about.com/d/saltaquarium/1/0/r/Y/1/EshoppsWetDry.jpg > > > > Tank overflow box similar to this in tank - this is also where the > > fishies got sucked into and up the u-tube > > http://www.aquabuys.com/miva/graphics/00000001/pca-overflow-box.jpg > > > > Pump > > WOW - just did some digging and found out the pump is rated @ 700gph > > @ zero elevation to 50gph @ 12ft elevation. Currently my elevation > > is 4ft which gives a 475gph flow - this might be a bit much? Could > > this be why the suction onto the overflow box slits is so strong? > > http://www.harrisonsponds.com/pdf/magdrive_250_700.pdf > > > > Test Results > > 11/19/09 > > Low pH @ 7.6 > > High pH @ 8.0 > > Ammonia @ 0 > > Nitrite @ 0 > > Nitrate @ 160 > > > > 11/26/09 - this are also the exact same numbers from my tap. Testing > > was done 4 days after adding 2g of tap water. Have not done testing > > since - scheduled for this Saturday Low pH @ 6.4 High pH @ 8.0 > > Ammonia @ 0 Nitrite @ 0 Nitrate @ 0 > > > > 2 Light Ballast rated @ up to 63watts with 2 25watt bulbs > > > > Thanks again for all your assistance. > > > > Alex ------------------------------------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the home page.  Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com to receive the digest, which includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com for the No E-Mail option where you will still be able to read messages on the group and post replies. Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com to receive individual e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 45096	From: cat.rose	Date: 12/11/2009
Subject: Re: Buying Cherry Shrimp

So 10 shrimp won't be too much? I have 3 platies (2 adult & 1 youth about 1/2 the size of the adults), 2 guppies, 2 GloFish. Plus plants. I don't have anything to keep extra shrimp in, and didn't really want to buy more tanks, etc. I've akready socked close to $400 in this 10 gal. :) Catherine --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@...> wrote: > > I think you should get more than one or two. Maybe 10 so they have a chance > to breed for you too. They don't live a long time so you'll want some > breeding for you or you'll be buying new ones all the time and the shipping > cost for just one or two would make the price WAY TOO HIGH for a couple of > cherry shrimp. The last time I checked on Aquabid.com, they were selling > lots of 10 for around a dollar a piece, lower prices for higher volume. I'm > not sure how much Pam (in this group) is selling them for right now. It's > time for Pam to list her Aquabid ID again so folks can find her there. ;-) > That seems to be the one link I haven't saved... maybe I'll remember this > time. > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right > side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) > > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On > Behalf Of cat.rose > Sent: Thursday, December 10, 2009 11:33 AM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Subject: [AquaticLife] Buying Cherry Shrimp > > Hi there! > > I want to buy 1-2 cherry shrimp for my 10 gal freshwater tank to try and > keep the algae down. Drs. Foster & Smith sell them but they've been > "Unavailable" for sometime now. > > Anyone have a recommendation for another reputable on-line store to buy > them? > > Thanks! > Catherine >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 45097	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 12/11/2009
Subject: Re: Planted Aquarium

See my blog article on "Filter Maintenance And Cleaning" and I have a big section about Purigen and how I've been recharging/cleaning it for several years now. Since I have hard water, I do not have to use the 3rd step of using a buffer soak... but for folks with soft water, they may need this step, although I suspect it might be SeaChem's way of separating some folks from the contents of their wallets. ;-) As far as what exactly it does, it goes from a white to off-white color to dark brown about every 4-6 weeks. Then when I take it out to clean it with a 50% bleach/water solution, it goes back to being white to off-white. What's in the dark brown? No clue except from what I've read on Seachem's website about Purigen. I definitely haven't had any negative effects. A $7.00 100ml packet lasts me for well over a year in my Goldfish tank and then I move it to my tropical or Cherry Shrimp tank, which have much lower bioloads and I only have to recharge it every few months in those tanks. Supposedly, it loses effectiveness after it is recharged a bunch of times which is why I move it to the lower bioload tanks and use a new packet in my Goldfish tank. After they're a couple of years old, I toss them since I have newer used packets coming down the line from the Goldfish tank. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of bill 1433 Sent: Friday, December 11, 2009 8:13 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: Planted Aquarium Hi Len,   Purigen?  You have talked about this stuff before but exactly what is it doing for YOU in YOUR tanks.  Also after Goggling around a bit there seems to be some conflict as to exactly how this stuff is re-rejuvenated.  Care to enlighten us all on how "Lenny" does it and what it's doing for Lenny's tanks?   Bill --- On Fri, 12/11/09, Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@...> wrote: From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@...> Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: Planted Aquarium To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Date: Friday, December 11, 2009, 2:00 AM I don't believe in using carbon full time... and I think many of the other experienced fish keepers will agree.  It's simply not needed and is just another way that the product sellers try to slip their hands into our wallets... as well as with 95% of the other crap they try to push on fish keepers.  Especially putting carbon in bioballs seems to be a bad thing since carbon needs to be changed every couple of weeks and you want to leave your bioballs alone as much as possible so you certainly do not want to be having to fool with them every two weeks and taking them out the water to dump old carbon and add new carbon, which could kill off some of your good nitrifying bacteria if the balls have to be out the water very long.  This also seems like a LOT of work.  If I was going to use carbon, like for removing a medication or contamination, I would put it in a separate media bag so that when I'm done using it, I can just remove that one bag and dump the old carbon. Now... all that said, for heavily stocked (almost all tanks with BIG fish like Goldfish, Oscars, Common Plecos, etc.), overstocked (temporarily while working on an additional tank) or even for grow-out tanks for fry, I am a proponent of Purigen which is a reusable (see my blog article about "Filter Maintenance" for more details) and it's far superior to carbon in removing dissolved organic compounds (DOC's) and other pollutants from the water. Purigen is an off-white granular product that turns to a dark brown as it gets dirty so you know when to take it out of your filter system and clean/recharge it.  I use the 100ml packets of Purigen in each of my filters on my Goldfish tank and have to clean/recharge the Purigen about once a month or so but each packet lasts for more than a year for me.  After I've used them for a year in my Goldfish tank, then I'll move them to one of my other tanks that are not as demanding.  If I wasn't using Purigen, I still wouldn't use carbon.  I still do weekly PWC's on all my tanks to remove/dilute the pollution levels.  There's a saying... "Dilution is the solution to pollution..." and I think it holds true for fish keepers also. For smaller tanks, under 55G, using an HOB is fine but for larger tanks, which usually means larger and more fish, using a canister filter is the only way I would go as a canister filter's reservoir holds a LOT more filter media for filtering the water.  I do have a Marineland 200 BioWheel on my 65G Goldfish tank (two fancy goldfish... around 5" to 6" long and around... and a 3" clown pleco) but it's the secondary filter to a Rena Filstar xP-2, which is the primary filter on the tank.  Even with the Rena doing the bulk of the work, the two filter cartridges in the Marineland get clogged up at least weekly and have to be cleaned or the water simply over-flows the cartridges instead of passing through them. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of amejia1976 Sent: Friday, December 11, 2009 12:30 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Planted Aquarium Lenny, What are your thoughts on the bioballs that can be filled with carbon; would they be a good alternative to getting a HOB filter? Alex --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@...> wrote: > > Your 11/26/09 test results looks like something went dramatically > wrong with your nitrogen cycle or your test results.  While the > ammonia and nitrite should be 0.0ppm, your nitrates should have some kind of reading... > especially if you had 160ppm the week before.  Even if you did a few > 25% PWC's, it would only reduce the 160ppm but not down to 0.0ppm. > > For posting photos in the group's albums, go to the group's home page, > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/aquaticlife and click on the Photos > button/link, then there should be instructions.  I'll be honest and > admit I do not use Yahoo Group's for hosting my online photo albums.  > I like using either Flickr, Webshots or Photobucket and then you can just include a link. > > > I hesitate to recommend Flickr sometimes, now that they are owned by > Yahoo, although you do get a free account with every Yahoo ID.  The > reason, I do not like using Yahoo services for online storage is that > they have a history of closing down services.  Years ago, every Yahoo > ID had a Photo album associated with it and Yahoo shut that down when > they could have just migrated everything over to a Flickr account > linked to the same ID.  Yes, Yahoo notified people but still, thousands of people lost all their photos. > Next, Yahoo had Geocities, which was a free website service for > newbies, which I was and still am for website design.  After many > years and millions of Geocities websites, they shut that down in > October of this year and thousands, if not millions of people lost > their websites, although they can still find them on the Internet > Archive Wayback Machine which archives every website that is on the > web for at least a short period of time.  Yahoo also shut down the > Yahoo 360 Profiles, which was their first attempt at social networking.  I always worry that they will shut down Yahoo Group's one day. > Don't think it can happen???  Well, MSN recently shut down all of > their group's without providing a reasonable way of migrating all the > information and members over to a new group system.  TONS of > information was lost, but for the Internet Archive Wayback Machine at > http://www.archive.org  The same thing has also happened with AOL when they shut down their member websites. > Yes, the same thing could happen with Webshots or Photobucket which is > why it's a good idea to have the same photos hosted on two different websites... > that's what I do, just in case... as well as having them backed up on > my computer and an automatic online backup service.  I use > https://mozy.com/?code=SY4ZSI since it's free for 2.5GB of files and > has an unlimited plan for under $5.00 a month.  I've tried Mozy and > Carbonite but I like Mozy better... and Carbonite does not have a free > version, only a trial version.  At least with Mozy, folks can back up > their most important 2.5GB of files for an unlimited time period and > not have to pay if they choose not to upgrade to a paid version.  They > also have their little referral program where folks get added free > storage when referring people to Mozy.  I have a paid account on my > main computer and the free version on another computer and I'm up to > 6.5GB of free online storage, which is plenty enough for documents and > photos but not for music and videos if folks have lots of them.  MSN > has a couple of free services for online backup also but it's not > automatic like Mozy.  The automatic online backup is done on a > scheduled basis or whenever the computer is not being heavily used.  I have mine set to do backups every night. > > OK.. back to fish. > > Why did you go with the 20 feeder guppies?  There are much better, > safer and humane ways to Fishless Cycle which does not harm the fish.  > A 99 cents bottle of plain ammonia (Ace Hardware) can be used for > fishless cycling a tank instead of using fish... especially feeder > fish which might have health issues that you will be bringing into > your tank.  I also hope the shrimp make it also.  I've never heard of > anyone using live shrimp to cycle a tank... well, except for years > ago, folks would actually throw a piece of normal shrimp into their > tank and let it rot away until it put out ammonia and fishless cycled > the tank.  I'm not sure if this is where you got the idea of using > "shrimp"... but they shouldn't have been live shrimp, IMO.  Of course, > if I couldn't find plain ammonia, then the old-fashioned "pee in the > tank" method works fine also.  Just be careful up on that ladder... and make sure you don't have to go so bad that you can't stop after an ounce or two. > ;-) > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles > referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically > under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) > > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] > On Behalf Of amejia1976 > Sent: Tuesday, December 08, 2009 9:19 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Planted Aquarium > > OK, >  > Thanks all for the info - I have been working overnights the past few > days and have had little time to respond/reply to your questions. >  > To answer >  > Amber - I am using the API master test kit for freshwater; ph, > Ammonia, Nitrate and Nitrite. Do not have a water hardness test - should I get one? >  > Test Results >  > 11/19/09 > Low pH @ 7.6 > High pH @ 8.0 > Ammonia @ 0 > Nitrite @ 0 > Nitrate @ 160 > > 11/26/09 > Low pH @ 6.4 > High pH @ 8.0 > Ammonia @ 0 > Nitrite @ 0 > Nitrate @ 0 > > 12/8/09 > pH @ 7.8 > Ammonia @ 0 > Nitrite @ 0 > Nitrate @ 5ppm > > Lenny > > I am sure I can find some of those high lumens bulbs here in Orlando. > > As to how I came up with the 475gph - I measure the length of the > tubing > (3/4in) coming from the pump to the elbow. > > Sump has about 5g in there > > On Saturday 12/5 I did a 20% water change, cleaned the sump, tank > walls, all sponges, tank overflow box. Did not clean or touch the > bioballs. I cleaned as I figured with so many fish that died the > amount of dirt was too large. I did not have my powered gravel pump > available but did use a suction type one. Speaking of bio balls; could > I use some of the ones dr fosters smith have that can be filled with carbon should I choose to not use real plants? > > Today I did a water test. After that came back positive I added 20 > feeder guppies and 10 ghost shrimp ($3.00) just so I can see how > things will work and if the nitrifying cycle would work. That is all > the fish I have in there. I also added a screen around the overflow > box as suggested; that seems to be working by the time I left home @ 1600 east coast US. > > The tank also has a large piece of mopani drift wood and a small one. > Both were cured for over 3 weeks. > > As for the pictures I can take some. How do I post them on here? > > Alex > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" > <GoldLenny@> > wrote: > > > > See Amber's reply also and answer her questions as well. > > > > There should be a shield of some sort that should be in the overflow > > box on the tank side, to keep fish/critters from getting sucked in. > > See the Images tab and the middle image on this page. > > http://www.marinedepot.com/ps_ViewItem.aspx?category=CPR_CS_Overflow > > _B > > oxes_E > > xternal_Overflow_Boxes_for_Aquariums&vendor=CPR&idProduct=CR1511&IdC > > at > > egory= > > FIOFEB&tab=2 > > > > There is the holey piece of plastic that is covering the intake side > > of the overflow and then a sponge filter covering the external part > > of the overflow so that even if a small fry should make it through > > the holes in the holey plastic, it would just end up in the overflow > > on the outside of the tank and could be netted back to the main tank. > > > > If you can't find the holey plastic material, then you should be > > able to improvise with a filter sponge block cut to fit in your > > overflow intake side.  You could even have the sponge block sticking > > up above the overflow box so fish couldn't even get into the box if > > they wanted to.  Here's some examples of the sponge block media.  > > There are various > pore sizes. > > > > http://www.amazon.com/ProClear-Aquatics-Sponge-Block-Pro150/dp/B0006 > > JL > > UTK > > > > http://www.petmountain.com/category/346/1/aquarium-foam-sponges.html > > > > http://www.thatpetplace.com/pet/prod/207322/product.web?gdftrk=xh23l > > c0 > > p/7HDy > > ~g3JgKLcxo30o9zaVSElqGwrCtL3k5jQStXmh90k5x6hluxJsJaQlulCLVfFRwZcBLsl > > Wd > > Qq90nr > > sxdOMuSt0~Qn~VrgN1~wFpZfIecnYmUJu4YTzw/uIo6aQYdzzrmG/HW4Wt73Yo1MqVRD > > Od > > MCVWZN > > IOfJv1I5QWMxjGj53tYhyMsl3sG > > > > Your 25" high tank is not conducive to as many plants since you only > > have two 25W fluorescent bulbs but if you shop carefully and find > > 25W Daylight Bulbs that give off in excess of 2,000 lumens (I've > > seen where they can go from as low as 1,250 up to 2,225 lumens) or > > more, you could probably get away with having several varieties of > > low light plants.  If you've been to my blog, "Planted Tank....", > > you'll see my lists and links to many low light, easy to grow plants > > that would work without the need to upgrade your lighting.  If you > > win the lottery, then you can upgrade your lighting to a nice CFL > > fixture and have more plant options but there are dozens of plants in the low light category. > > > > Like Amber said, 475GPH for a 70G tank is not excessive although it > > may be on the high side for what many fish are comfortable with and > > many plants do not like that kind of flow rate.  Usually, if a fish > > doesn't like that kind of water movement, they'll find an area with > > lower > movement and hang out in > > that area all the time.  Are you seeing this?    Of course, you should > read > > profiles on each of your fish to find out what kind of ecosystem > > they prefer and then try to get compatible tank mates.  I like the > > profiles on http://fish.mongabay.com as a good starting place as > > they also have a paragraph called "SC" (Suggested Companions) that > > lists other suitable tankmates that prefer similar water parameters and ecosystems. > > > > How did you come up with a 4' elevation and that actual 475 GPH?  > > Actually, the useful term for pumps, besides flow rate (GPH) is head > > pressure and there are several factors that affect head pressure, > > from elbows in the plumbing and other plumbing design issues like > > whether the right size pipe was used and then how far the pump has > > to push the water back up to the discharge.  Can you take a picture > > of your tank, stand, filter and plumbing from various angles?  I'm > > still not sure what > your's even looks like. > > > > You could also test your actual flow rate using a large garbage can > > with a known water volume and then measure how long it takes to fill > > up the garbage can to a certain measured mark.  475GPH is equal to > > 7.9G per minute so if you mark off 8, 16 and 24G marks on a 30G > > garbage can, you could measure if it takes 3 minutes to reach the > > 24G mark or if it's faster or slower and then give us the actual > > times if you can't calculate it out yourself.  You would want the > > top of the garbage can to be at the same height as the top of your tank. > > > > Do you have a sump tank under your main tank?  How much water does > > the filter reservoir hold?  You would need to add that volume to > > your 70G volume for true water volume of your system.  For example, > > if you have a 20G sump tank under a 30G display tank, you could get > > away with stocking a little heavier since you have that extra 20G of > > water volume.  There may still be territory issues but that's separate issue. > > > > Also, remind us of what you have left in your tank right now.  I'm > > thinking just a pleco but I want to be sure and we also need to know > > what kind of pleco to figure out what other fish you can have. > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles > > referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, > > alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) > > > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] > > On Behalf Of amejia1976 > > Sent: Friday, December 04, 2009 2:23 AM > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Planted Aquarium > > > > WOW - talk about information overload - Thanks Lenny and Amber - you > > guys are so patient. > > > > Tank is still cycling as I have added 10 ghost shrimps and a feeder > > guppy here and there, also put a pantyhose on the overflow box to > > avoid the suction of death and a Plexiglas canopy to cover and > > reduce > evaporation. > > > > Info on my tank > > Rectangular > > 25in Height x 36in Wide x 18in Deep > > Trickle Wet/Dry Filter similar to this but rated @ 75g > > http://z.about.com/d/saltaquarium/1/0/r/Y/1/EshoppsWetDry.jpg > > > > Tank overflow box similar to this in tank - this is also where the > > fishies got sucked into and up the u-tube > > http://www.aquabuys.com/miva/graphics/00000001/pca-overflow-box.jpg > > > > Pump > > WOW - just did some digging and found out the pump is rated @ 700gph > > @ zero elevation to 50gph @ 12ft elevation. Currently my elevation > > is 4ft which gives a 475gph flow - this might be a bit much? Could > > this be why the suction onto the overflow box slits is so strong? > > http://www.harrisonsponds.com/pdf/magdrive_250_700.pdf > > > > Test Results > > 11/19/09 > > Low pH @ 7.6 > > High pH @ 8.0 > > Ammonia @ 0 > > Nitrite @ 0 > > Nitrate @ 160 > > > > 11/26/09 - this are also the exact same numbers from my tap. Testing > > was done 4 days after adding 2g of tap water. Have not done testing > > since - scheduled for this Saturday Low pH @ 6.4 High pH @ 8.0 > > Ammonia @ 0 Nitrite @ 0 Nitrate @ 0 > > > > 2 Light Ballast rated @ up to 63watts with 2 25watt bulbs > > > > Thanks again for all your assistance. > > > > Alex

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 45098	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 12/11/2009
Subject: Re: Buying Cherry Shrimp

Cherry Shrimp are very small. Adults are barely an inch long, if that. 10 Cherry Shrimp added together probably have the same body mass as a single Zebra Danio (some are called GloFish when genetically engineered to have the Day-Glo type colors). For me, they seem to be opportunistic breeders so they'll only breed a lot if there's a lot of food for them to eat and will slow down as the food becomes scarcer. What kind of platies do you have? For LOTS more info on properly stocking a 10G tank for long term success, see my (and mostly Hailey's) blog article, "Hailey's 10 Gallon Tank Stocking Suggestions", http://goldlenny.blogspot.com/2007/03/haileys-10-gallon-tank-stocking-list.h tml I'm almost afraid to ask how you've spent $400.00 on a 10G tank. The last one I got, which was fully stocked (actually grossly overstocked with enough fish for over 100G), including an iron stand, tank, HOB filter, heater, etc., cost me $50.00. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of cat.rose Sent: Friday, December 11, 2009 7:58 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Buying Cherry Shrimp So 10 shrimp won't be too much? I have 3 platies (2 adult & 1 youth about 1/2 the size of the adults), 2 guppies, 2 GloFish. Plus plants. I don't have anything to keep extra shrimp in, and didn't really want to buy more tanks, etc. I've akready socked close to $400 in this 10 gal. :) Catherine --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@...> wrote: > > I think you should get more than one or two. Maybe 10 so they have a > chance to breed for you too. They don't live a long time so you'll > want some breeding for you or you'll be buying new ones all the time > and the shipping cost for just one or two would make the price WAY TOO > HIGH for a couple of cherry shrimp. The last time I checked on > Aquabid.com, they were selling lots of 10 for around a dollar a piece, > lower prices for higher volume. I'm not sure how much Pam (in this > group) is selling them for right now. It's time for Pam to list her > Aquabid ID again so folks can find her there. ;-) That seems to be the > one link I haven't saved... maybe I'll remember this time. > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles > referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically > under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) > > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] > On Behalf Of cat.rose > Sent: Thursday, December 10, 2009 11:33 AM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Subject: [AquaticLife] Buying Cherry Shrimp > > Hi there! > > I want to buy 1-2 cherry shrimp for my 10 gal freshwater tank to try > and keep the algae down. Drs. Foster & Smith sell them but they've > been "Unavailable" for sometime now. > > Anyone have a recommendation for another reputable on-line store to > buy them? > > Thanks! > Catherine

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 45099	From: pam andress	Date: 12/11/2009
Subject: Re: Buying Cherry Shrimp

My green shrimp are Caridina. If you have looked at Lotsoffish 's auctions for them, they are the same ones as I got them from him. Yes they do blend into the plants and are harder to find. I have been told if you mix them with other colors, they do become a mutt brown, so I won't try it. Pam To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com From: GoldLenny@... Date: Fri, 11 Dec 2009 00:21:21 -0600 Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Buying Cherry Shrimp What kind of shrimp are green shrimp? Is it just a morph of cherry "red" shrimp? I saw this with a quick Google, which shows this "green shrimp" to be a Caridina sp. The below snip claims there are several species of "green shrimp". Do you know which species you have? Are they also algae eaters like Cherry Shrimp? It seems like "green shrimp" might have a better success rate from predation since they would blend into the plants better so these might be a viable algae eater in tanks with fish that like a little shrimp snack from time to time. http://www.planetinverts.com/Green%20Shrimp.html Dark Green Shrimp Caridina sp. "Dark Green" Overview There has been a lot of confusion generated by the names "Green Shrimp," "Dark Green Shrimp," and "Green Neon Shrimp." There are several different scientific names that this shrimp has been given, and other breeders have stated that this is in fact an unnamed species of its own. (END SNIP) With the coming Christmas Holiday Season, maybe some Red and Green shrimp will make my cherry shrimp tank more festive. ;-) I wonder if they would inbreed, resulting in some mutt/plain looking shrimp? Probably so... but maybe not. Have you mixed them in the same tank with Cherry Shrimp to see if they mix breed? Cherry shrimp is a Neocaridina sp. http://www.planetinverts.com/Red%20Cherry%20Shrimp.html unless the scientific name has changed again. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of pam andress Sent: Thursday, December 10, 2009 10:52 PM To: aquaticlife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Buying Cherry Shrimp Wow that's neat. Yeah that was a big sale I was having. I was over run with them at the time. Now I'm down as I almost sold everything I had at that time. Right now I have more Green shrimp then Cherry, but I still can let some go if needed. Pam To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com From: GoldLenny@... Date: Thu, 10 Dec 2009 21:40:46 -0600 Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Buying Cherry Shrimp Oh.. one other thing Pam... when I was Googling for your aquabid seller's site, I found this forum post at http://www.piranha-fury.com/pfury/lofiversion/index.php/t175597.html which said, "... ChilDawg Sep 3 2008, 08:13 PM Hey, Vik, you might want to check out AquaBid or www.1hrauctions.com (a Saturday night-only auction site) for Cherries. I had good luck with a seller named ucdxmisty...wound up getting 30+ RCS for $10 plus $8 shipping. They're doing great!..." It looks like you have a happy camper there! ;-) Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of pam andress Sent: Thursday, December 10, 2009 1:56 PM To: aquaticlife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Buying Cherry Shrimp Hi Lenny, Thats why I asked what she had in the tank. I also don't think just sending 1 or 2 shrimp is cost effective with shipping charges. Especially at this time of year when a heat pack has to be added. If she has a larger tank that she could transfer the pleco into later, then it would be ok for a while. Pam ucdxmisty on Aquabid [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 45100	From: pam andress	Date: 12/11/2009
Subject: Re: Buying Cherry Shrimp

I prefer doing side deals. I have put up auctions and they never sell because there are so many doing the same thing at the same time. Putting together those auctions are a pain sometimes. Also like I said I almost depleted my cherry shrimp. TG they like to have babies. ;) I'm also on a few other sites with chats and I sell there too. Pam To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com From: GoldLenny@... Date: Fri, 11 Dec 2009 00:30:10 -0600 Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Buying Cherry Shrimp Well, you had 58 ratings so you have at least done that many.. right? I see where you haven't been very active in the past six months though. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of pam andress Sent: Thursday, December 10, 2009 9:40 PM To: aquaticlife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Buying Cherry Shrimp Well Lenny, you didn't find any active auctions, because I don't have any. lol I do mostly side deals, but do put up auctions on occasion. Pam To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com From: GoldLenny@... Date: Thu, 10 Dec 2009 21:33:32 -0600 Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Buying Cherry Shrimp Pam, Mannnn.. you made me work. I went to Aquabid and did a general search on ucdxmisty and nothing. Then an advanced search and there was a way to search for a seller so I found this... http://www.aquabid.com/cgi-bin/auction/vfb.cgi?&&vfb&Ucdxmisty but that doesn't list your active auctions... or maybe you don't have any??? It seems like they should list your auctions on your Seller's home page or at least say that you don't have any but I didn't see anything. Catherine, I did look at the Cherry Shrimp auctions on Aquabid and I saw some "Buy Now" prices around $1.00 each with free shipping for 15-20 shrimp, but I also saw an open auction for 20 shrimp for $5.00 (but there's a shipping charge). But there's an 18 Cherry Shrimp auction which includes FREE shipping and is only at $8.50 right now and the auction ends 12/13. http://www.aquabid.com/cgi-bin/auction/auction.cgi?fwinverts&1260753090 Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of pam andress Sent: Thursday, December 10, 2009 1:56 PM To: aquaticlife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Buying Cherry Shrimp Hi Lenny, Thats why I asked what she had in the tank. I also don't think just sending 1 or 2 shrimp is cost effective with shipping charges. Especially at this time of year when a heat pack has to be added. If she has a larger tank that she could transfer the pleco into later, then it would be ok for a while. Pam ucdxmisty on Aquabid To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com From: GoldLenny@... Date: Thu, 10 Dec 2009 13:29:14 -0600 Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Buying Cherry Shrimp Pam, I know you're the *expert* on BN's but I think a BN Pleco gets too large for a 10G tank.. don't you? I know they're not terribly active but a wide-bodied 6" fish is a lot of bioload for a 10G tank. Maybe a Clown Pleco, 3" to 4" but still wide-bodied, so even that doesn't leave much room for many more fish. Depending on the fish, as long as they don't like eating shrimp, then algae eating shrimp are probably the best thing for a 10G. Post your Aquabid ID again so I can save it this time. :P Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of pam andress Sent: Thursday, December 10, 2009 12:47 PM To: aquaticlife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Buying Cherry Shrimp I'm here. :) Yes I have cherry shrimp. I also have green shrimp. Either will help and so will a BN (Bristle Nose Pleco). What do you have in this tank? Pam > I prefer to get my fish from breeders myself, there is another group > member here that breeds cherry shrimp (among other fish/invertebrates). > I'm sure she will speak up if she has some available (Pam you out there? > LOL). > She has very good fish and invertebrates, I and at least a few other > group members have gotten stuff from Pam in the past and everything > arrived in great condition. > Also you can check www.aquabid.com it's like ebay but for aquatic > stuff, I get fish on there now and then. > > Amber > > cat.rose wrote: > > > > Hi there! > > > > I want to buy 1-2 cherry shrimp for my 10 gal freshwater tank to try > > and keep the algae down. Drs. Foster & Smith sell them but they've > > been "Unavailable" for sometime now. > > > > Anyone have a recommendation for another reputable on-line store to > > buy them? > > > > Thanks! > > Catherine [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 45101	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 12/11/2009
Subject: Re: Buying Cherry Shrimp

According to this site: http://www.planetinverts.com/Will%20These%20Shrimp%20Interbreed.html You can have green shrimp with red cherry shrimp and they shouldn't interbreed. Amber pam andress wrote: > My green shrimp are Caridina. If you have looked at Lotsoffish 's auctions for them, they are the same ones as I got them from him. Yes they do blend into the plants and are harder to find. I have been told if you mix them with other colors, they do become a mutt brown, so I won't try it. > > Pam > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > From: GoldLenny@... > Date: Fri, 11 Dec 2009 00:21:21 -0600 > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Buying Cherry Shrimp > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > What kind of shrimp are green shrimp? Is it just a morph of cherry "red" > > shrimp? I saw this with a quick Google, which shows this "green shrimp" to > > be a Caridina sp. The below snip claims there are several species of "green > > shrimp". Do you know which species you have? Are they also algae eaters > > like Cherry Shrimp? It seems like "green shrimp" might have a better > > success rate from predation since they would blend into the plants better so > > these might be a viable algae eater in tanks with fish that like a little > > shrimp snack from time to time. > > > > http://www.planetinverts.com/Green%20Shrimp.html > > Dark Green Shrimp > > > > Caridina sp. "Dark Green" > > > > Overview > > > > There has been a lot of confusion generated by the names "Green Shrimp," > > "Dark Green Shrimp," and "Green Neon Shrimp." There are several different > > scientific names that this shrimp has been given, and other breeders have > > stated that this is in fact an unnamed species of its own. > > (END SNIP) > > > > With the coming Christmas Holiday Season, maybe some Red and Green shrimp > > will make my cherry shrimp tank more festive. ;-) > > > > I wonder if they would inbreed, resulting in some mutt/plain looking shrimp? > > Probably so... but maybe not. Have you mixed them in the same tank with > > Cherry Shrimp to see if they mix breed? > > > > Cherry shrimp is a Neocaridina sp. > > http://www.planetinverts.com/Red%20Cherry%20Shrimp.html unless the > > scientific name has changed again. > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > > (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right > > side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On > > Behalf Of pam andress > > Sent: Thursday, December 10, 2009 10:52 PM > > To: aquaticlife@yahoogroups.com > > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Buying Cherry Shrimp > > > > Wow that's neat. > > > > Yeah that was a big sale I was having. I was over run with them at the time. > > Now I'm down as I almost sold everything I had at that time. Right now I > > have more Green shrimp then Cherry, but I still can let some go if needed. > > > > Pam > > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > From: GoldLenny@... > > Date: Thu, 10 Dec 2009 21:40:46 -0600 > > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Buying Cherry Shrimp > > > > > > > > Oh.. one other thing Pam... when I was Googling for your aquabid > > seller's > > > > site, I found this forum post at > > > > http://www.piranha-fury.com/pfury/lofiversion/index.php/t175597.html which > > > > said, > > > > "... ChilDawg Sep 3 2008, 08:13 PM Hey, Vik, you might want to check out > > > > AquaBid or www.1hrauctions.com (a Saturday night-only auction site) for > > > > Cherries. I had good luck with a seller named ucdxmisty...wound up getting > > > > 30+ RCS for $10 plus $8 shipping. They're doing great!..." > > > > It looks like you have a happy camper there! ;-) > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > > > > (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right > > > > side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On > > > > Behalf Of pam andress > > > > Sent: Thursday, December 10, 2009 1:56 PM > > > > To: aquaticlife@yahoogroups.com > > > > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Buying Cherry Shrimp > > > > Hi Lenny, > > > > Thats why I asked what she had in the tank. I also don't think just sending > > > > 1 or 2 shrimp is cost effective with shipping charges. Especially at this > > > > time of year when a heat pack has to be added. If she has a larger tank that > > > > she could transfer the pleco into later, then it would be ok for a while. > > > > Pam > > > > ucdxmisty on Aquabid > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > ------------------------------------ > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. > ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> > PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- > <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. > > If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the home page. > > Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com to receive the digest, which includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email > > Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com for the No E-Mail option where you will still be able to read messages on the group and post replies. > > Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com to receive individual e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links > > > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 45102	From: pam andress	Date: 12/11/2009
Subject: Re: Buying Cherry Shrimp

I'm not chancing it. The green shrimp are more expensive then the cherry ones and if you do get mutts, then what do you do with all those shrimp? Pam To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com From: arberglund@... Date: Fri, 11 Dec 2009 10:12:49 -0900 Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Buying Cherry Shrimp According to this site: http://www.planetinverts.com/Will%20These%20Shrimp%20Interbreed.html You can have green shrimp with red cherry shrimp and they shouldn't interbreed. Amber pam andress wrote: > My green shrimp are Caridina. If you have looked at Lotsoffish 's auctions for them, they are the same ones as I got them from him. Yes they do blend into the plants and are harder to find. I have been told if you mix them with other colors, they do become a mutt brown, so I won't try it. > > Pam > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > From: GoldLenny@... > Date: Fri, 11 Dec 2009 00:21:21 -0600 > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Buying Cherry Shrimp > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > What kind of shrimp are green shrimp? Is it just a morph of cherry "red" > > shrimp? I saw this with a quick Google, which shows this "green shrimp" to > > be a Caridina sp. The below snip claims there are several species of "green > > shrimp". Do you know which species you have? Are they also algae eaters > > like Cherry Shrimp? It seems like "green shrimp" might have a better > > success rate from predation since they would blend into the plants better so > > these might be a viable algae eater in tanks with fish that like a little > > shrimp snack from time to time. > > > > http://www.planetinverts.com/Green%20Shrimp.html > > Dark Green Shrimp > > > > Caridina sp. "Dark Green" > > > > Overview > > > > There has been a lot of confusion generated by the names "Green Shrimp," > > "Dark Green Shrimp," and "Green Neon Shrimp." There are several different > > scientific names that this shrimp has been given, and other breeders have > > stated that this is in fact an unnamed species of its own. > > (END SNIP) > > > > With the coming Christmas Holiday Season, maybe some Red and Green shrimp > > will make my cherry shrimp tank more festive. ;-) > > > > I wonder if they would inbreed, resulting in some mutt/plain looking shrimp? > > Probably so... but maybe not. Have you mixed them in the same tank with > > Cherry Shrimp to see if they mix breed? > > > > Cherry shrimp is a Neocaridina sp. > > http://www.planetinverts.com/Red%20Cherry%20Shrimp.html unless the > > scientific name has changed again. > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > > (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right > > side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On > > Behalf Of pam andress > > Sent: Thursday, December 10, 2009 10:52 PM > > To: aquaticlife@yahoogroups.com > > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Buying Cherry Shrimp > > > > Wow that's neat. > > > > Yeah that was a big sale I was having. I was over run with them at the time. > > Now I'm down as I almost sold everything I had at that time. Right now I > > have more Green shrimp then Cherry, but I still can let some go if needed. > > > > Pam > > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > From: GoldLenny@... > > Date: Thu, 10 Dec 2009 21:40:46 -0600 > > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Buying Cherry Shrimp > > > > > > > > Oh.. one other thing Pam... when I was Googling for your aquabid > > seller's > > > > site, I found this forum post at > > > > http://www.piranha-fury.com/pfury/lofiversion/index.php/t175597.html which > > > > said, > > > > "... ChilDawg Sep 3 2008, 08:13 PM Hey, Vik, you might want to check out > > > > AquaBid or www.1hrauctions.com (a Saturday night-only auction site) for > > > > Cherries. I had good luck with a seller named ucdxmisty...wound up getting > > > > 30+ RCS for $10 plus $8 shipping. They're doing great!..." > > > > It looks like you have a happy camper there! ;-) > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > > > > (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right > > > > side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On > > > > Behalf Of pam andress > > > > Sent: Thursday, December 10, 2009 1:56 PM > > > > To: aquaticlife@yahoogroups.com > > > > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Buying Cherry Shrimp > > > > Hi Lenny, > > > > Thats why I asked what she had in the tank. I also don't think just sending > > > > 1 or 2 shrimp is cost effective with shipping charges. Especially at this > > > > time of year when a heat pack has to be added. If she has a larger tank that > > > > she could transfer the pleco into later, then it would be ok for a while. > > > > Pam > > > > ucdxmisty on Aquabid > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > ------------------------------------ > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. > ���`�.��.><((((�>.���`�.��.���`�.�><((((�> �.���`�.�. , .���`�..><((((�> > PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- > <�((((><.���`�.��.���`�.�<�((((><�.���`�.�. , .���`�..<�((((><���`�.��. > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. > > If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the home page. > > Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com to receive the digest, which includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email > > Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com for the No E-Mail option where you will still be able to read messages on the group and post replies. > > Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com to receive individual e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 45103	From: bill 1433	Date: 12/11/2009
Subject: Re: Buying Cherry Shrimp

You buy an Oscar?   Just a thought,   Bill --- On Fri, 12/11/09, pam andress <pamandress23@...> wrote: From: pam andress <pamandress23@...> Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Buying Cherry Shrimp To: aquaticlife@yahoogroups.com Date: Friday, December 11, 2009, 2:59 PM I'm not chancing it. The green shrimp are more expensive then the cherry ones and if you do get mutts, then what do you do with all those shrimp? Pam To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com From: arberglund@... Date: Fri, 11 Dec 2009 10:12:49 -0900 Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Buying Cherry Shrimp                         According to this site: http://www.planetinverts.com/Will%20These%20Shrimp%20Interbreed.html You can have green shrimp with red cherry shrimp and they shouldn't interbreed. Amber pam andress wrote: > My green shrimp are Caridina. If you have looked at Lotsoffish 's auctions for them, they are the same ones as I got them from him. Yes they do blend into the plants and are harder to find. I have been told if you mix them with other colors, they do become a mutt brown, so I won't try it. > > Pam > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > From: GoldLenny@... > Date: Fri, 11 Dec 2009 00:21:21 -0600 > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Buying Cherry Shrimp > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >  > > > >    > > >      >        >        >       What kind of shrimp are green shrimp?  Is it just a morph of cherry "red" > > shrimp?  I saw this with a quick Google, which shows this "green shrimp" to > > be a Caridina sp.  The below snip claims there are several species of "green > > shrimp".  Do you know which species you have?  Are they also algae eaters > > like Cherry Shrimp?  It seems like "green shrimp" might have a better > > success rate from predation since they would blend into the plants better so > > these might be a viable algae eater in tanks with fish that like a little > > shrimp snack from time to time. > > > > http://www.planetinverts.com/Green%20Shrimp.html > > Dark Green Shrimp > > > > Caridina sp. "Dark Green" > > > > Overview > > > > There has been a lot of confusion generated by the names "Green Shrimp," > > "Dark Green Shrimp," and "Green Neon Shrimp." There are several different > > scientific names that this shrimp has been given, and other breeders have > > stated that this is in fact an unnamed species of its own. > > (END SNIP) > > > > With the coming Christmas Holiday Season, maybe some Red and Green shrimp > > will make my cherry shrimp tank more festive. ;-) > > > > I wonder if they would inbreed, resulting in some mutt/plain looking shrimp? > > Probably so... but maybe not.  Have you mixed them in the same tank with > > Cherry Shrimp to see if they mix breed? > > > > Cherry shrimp is a Neocaridina sp. > > http://www.planetinverts.com/Red%20Cherry%20Shrimp.html unless the > > scientific name has changed again. > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > > (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right > > side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On > > Behalf Of pam andress > > Sent: Thursday, December 10, 2009 10:52 PM > > To: aquaticlife@yahoogroups.com > > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Buying Cherry Shrimp > > > > Wow that's neat. > > > > Yeah that was a big sale I was having. I was over run with them at the time. > > Now I'm down as I almost sold everything I had at that time. Right now I > > have more Green shrimp then Cherry, but I still can let some go if needed. > > > > Pam > > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > From: GoldLenny@... > > Date: Thu, 10 Dec 2009 21:40:46 -0600 > > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Buying Cherry Shrimp > >  > >  > >        > >       Oh.. one other thing Pam... when I was Googling for your aquabid > > seller's > > > > site, I found this forum post at > > > > http://www.piranha-fury.com/pfury/lofiversion/index.php/t175597.html which > > > > said, > > > > "...  ChilDawg  Sep 3 2008, 08:13 PM  Hey, Vik, you might want to check out > > > > AquaBid or www.1hrauctions.com (a Saturday night-only auction site) for > > > > Cherries. I had good luck with a seller named ucdxmisty...wound up getting > > > > 30+ RCS for $10 plus $8 shipping. They're doing great!..." > > > > It looks like you have a happy camper there! ;-) > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > > > > (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right > > > > side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On > > > > Behalf Of pam andress > > > > Sent: Thursday, December 10, 2009 1:56 PM > > > > To: aquaticlife@yahoogroups.com > > > > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Buying Cherry Shrimp > > > > Hi Lenny, > > > > Thats why I asked what she had in the tank. I also don't think just sending > > > > 1 or 2 shrimp is cost effective with shipping charges. Especially at this > > > > time of year when a heat pack has to be added. If she has a larger tank that > > > > she could transfer the pleco into later, then it would be ok for a while. > > > > Pam > > > > ucdxmisty on Aquabid > > > > > > >      >      > >      >      > > > > > > >                              > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > ------------------------------------ > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. > ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> > PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- > <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. > > If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the home page.  > > Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com to receive the digest, which includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email > > Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com for the No E-Mail option where you will still be able to read messages on the group and post replies. > > Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com to receive individual e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links > > > >                                                   [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] ------------------------------------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the home page.  Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com to receive the digest, which includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com for the No E-Mail option where you will still be able to read messages on the group and post replies. Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com to receive individual e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 45104	From: cat.rose	Date: 12/11/2009
Subject: Re: Buying Cherry Shrimp

Hey Lenny, Ok, I'll get 10 cherry shrimp then. I don't know what kind of platies I have - "regular" I guess? [:-?] They're orange, with a bit of black near their tail, and about 1-1 1/2 inches long. I started with just 2 females but one must have been prego when I bought her, and whence came the little guy (3 others got eaten, luckily). I know you've told me that the zebra danios like to be in schools and maybe return some of the fish and get more danios, but I don't want to give back any of my fish. They have a nice little home with me and I don't trust PetSmart, and I don't know anyone with an aquarium who could take them. I live in the New York City area and things here are a bit more expensive than other places. My tank was only about $30, but then I had to also get: tank lid air stone + bubble machine (eeek, sounds dumb but can't remember what they're called!!) heater filter filter refills (before I learned just rinse it out in tank water) gravel a couple decorations real plants (and then more, and then more... as they kept dying) 2 fake plants "wallpaper" to put on the outside back of the tank fish (then 2 more as I had 2 die) light bulbs net food a gravel vacuum some chemicals that I now know I don't need Catherine --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@...> wrote: > > Cherry Shrimp are very small. Adults are barely an inch long, if that. 10 > Cherry Shrimp added together probably have the same body mass as a single > Zebra Danio (some are called GloFish when genetically engineered to have the > Day-Glo type colors). For me, they seem to be opportunistic breeders so > they'll only breed a lot if there's a lot of food for them to eat and will > slow down as the food becomes scarcer. > > What kind of platies do you have? > > For LOTS more info on properly stocking a 10G tank for long term success, > see my (and mostly Hailey's) blog article, "Hailey's 10 Gallon Tank Stocking > Suggestions", > http://goldlenny.blogspot.com/2007/03/haileys-10-gallon-tank-stocking-li\ st.h > tml > > I'm almost afraid to ask how you've spent $400.00 on a 10G tank. The last > one I got, which was fully stocked (actually grossly overstocked with enough > fish for over 100G), including an iron stand, tank, HOB filter, heater, > etc., cost me $50.00. > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced > in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and > also under Archives by Year, Month) > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On > Behalf Of cat.rose > Sent: Friday, December 11, 2009 7:58 AM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Buying Cherry Shrimp > > So 10 shrimp won't be too much? I have 3 platies (2 adult & 1 youth about > 1/2 the size of the adults), 2 guppies, 2 GloFish. Plus plants. > > I don't have anything to keep extra shrimp in, and didn't really want to buy > more tanks, etc. I've akready socked close to $400 in this 10 gal. :) > > Catherine > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" GoldLenny@ > wrote: > > > > I think you should get more than one or two. Maybe 10 so they have a > > chance to breed for you too. They don't live a long time so you'll > > want some breeding for you or you'll be buying new ones all the time > > and the shipping cost for just one or two would make the price WAY TOO > > HIGH for a couple of cherry shrimp. The last time I checked on > > Aquabid.com, they were selling lots of 10 for around a dollar a piece, > > lower prices for higher volume. I'm not sure how much Pam (in this > > group) is selling them for right now. It's time for Pam to list her > > Aquabid ID again so folks can find her there. ;-) That seems to be the > > one link I haven't saved... maybe I'll remember this time. > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles > > referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically > > under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] > > On Behalf Of cat.rose > > Sent: Thursday, December 10, 2009 11:33 AM > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > Subject: [AquaticLife] Buying Cherry Shrimp > > > > Hi there! > > > > I want to buy 1-2 cherry shrimp for my 10 gal freshwater tank to try > > and keep the algae down. Drs. Foster & Smith sell them but they've > > been "Unavailable" for sometime now. > > > > Anyone have a recommendation for another reputable on-line store to > > buy them? > > > > Thanks! > > Catherine > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 45105	From: pam andress	Date: 12/11/2009
Subject: Re: Buying Cherry Shrimp

Oh NO!!!!! I will not get one of those. :) Pam To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com From: warrenprint@... Date: Fri, 11 Dec 2009 12:13:01 -0800 Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Buying Cherry Shrimp You buy an Oscar? Just a thought, Bill --- On Fri, 12/11/09, pam andress <pamandress23@...> wrote: From: pam andress <pamandress23@...> Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Buying Cherry Shrimp To: aquaticlife@yahoogroups.com Date: Friday, December 11, 2009, 2:59 PM I'm not chancing it. The green shrimp are more expensive then the cherry ones and if you do get mutts, then what do you do with all those shrimp? Pam To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com From: arberglund@... Date: Fri, 11 Dec 2009 10:12:49 -0900 Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Buying Cherry Shrimp According to this site: http://www.planetinverts.com/Will%20These%20Shrimp%20Interbreed.html You can have green shrimp with red cherry shrimp and they shouldn't interbreed. Amber pam andress wrote: > My green shrimp are Caridina. If you have looked at Lotsoffish 's auctions for them, they are the same ones as I got them from him. Yes they do blend into the plants and are harder to find. I have been told if you mix them with other colors, they do become a mutt brown, so I won't try it. > > Pam > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > From: GoldLenny@... > Date: Fri, 11 Dec 2009 00:21:21 -0600 > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Buying Cherry Shrimp > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > What kind of shrimp are green shrimp? Is it just a morph of cherry "red" > > shrimp? I saw this with a quick Google, which shows this "green shrimp" to > > be a Caridina sp. The below snip claims there are several species of "green > > shrimp". Do you know which species you have? Are they also algae eaters > > like Cherry Shrimp? It seems like "green shrimp" might have a better > > success rate from predation since they would blend into the plants better so > > these might be a viable algae eater in tanks with fish that like a little > > shrimp snack from time to time. > > > > http://www.planetinverts.com/Green%20Shrimp.html > > Dark Green Shrimp > > > > Caridina sp. "Dark Green" > > > > Overview > > > > There has been a lot of confusion generated by the names "Green Shrimp," > > "Dark Green Shrimp," and "Green Neon Shrimp." There are several different > > scientific names that this shrimp has been given, and other breeders have > > stated that this is in fact an unnamed species of its own. > > (END SNIP) > > > > With the coming Christmas Holiday Season, maybe some Red and Green shrimp > > will make my cherry shrimp tank more festive. ;-) > > > > I wonder if they would inbreed, resulting in some mutt/plain looking shrimp? > > Probably so... but maybe not. Have you mixed them in the same tank with > > Cherry Shrimp to see if they mix breed? > > > > Cherry shrimp is a Neocaridina sp. > > http://www.planetinverts.com/Red%20Cherry%20Shrimp.html unless the > > scientific name has changed again. > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > > (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right > > side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On > > Behalf Of pam andress > > Sent: Thursday, December 10, 2009 10:52 PM > > To: aquaticlife@yahoogroups.com > > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Buying Cherry Shrimp > > > > Wow that's neat. > > > > Yeah that was a big sale I was having. I was over run with them at the time. > > Now I'm down as I almost sold everything I had at that time. Right now I > > have more Green shrimp then Cherry, but I still can let some go if needed. > > > > Pam > > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > From: GoldLenny@... > > Date: Thu, 10 Dec 2009 21:40:46 -0600 > > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Buying Cherry Shrimp > > > > > > > > Oh.. one other thing Pam... when I was Googling for your aquabid > > seller's > > > > site, I found this forum post at > > > > http://www.piranha-fury.com/pfury/lofiversion/index.php/t175597.html which > > > > said, > > > > "... ChilDawg Sep 3 2008, 08:13 PM Hey, Vik, you might want to check out > > > > AquaBid or www.1hrauctions.com (a Saturday night-only auction site) for > > > > Cherries. I had good luck with a seller named ucdxmisty...wound up getting > > > > 30+ RCS for $10 plus $8 shipping. They're doing great!..." > > > > It looks like you have a happy camper there! ;-) > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > > > > (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right > > > > side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On > > > > Behalf Of pam andress > > > > Sent: Thursday, December 10, 2009 1:56 PM > > > > To: aquaticlife@yahoogroups.com > > > > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Buying Cherry Shrimp > > > > Hi Lenny, > > > > Thats why I asked what she had in the tank. I also don't think just sending > > > > 1 or 2 shrimp is cost effective with shipping charges. Especially at this > > > > time of year when a heat pack has to be added. If she has a larger tank that > > > > she could transfer the pleco into later, then it would be ok for a while. > > > > Pam > > > > ucdxmisty on Aquabid > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > ------------------------------------ > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. > ���`�.��.><((((�>.���`�.��.���`�.�><((((�> �.���`�.�. , .���`�..><((((�> > PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- > <�((((><.���`�.��.���`�.�<�((((><�.���`�.�. , .���`�..<�((((><���`�.��. > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. > > If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the home page. > > Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com to receive the digest, which includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email > > Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com for the No E-Mail option where you will still be able to read messages on the group and post replies. > > Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com to receive individual e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] ------------------------------------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. ���`�.��.><((((�>.���`�.��.���`�.�><((((�> �.���`�.�. , .���`�..><((((�> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <�((((><.���`�.��.���`�.�<�((((><�.���`�.�. , .���`�..<�((((><���`�.��. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the home page. Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com to receive the digest, which includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com for the No E-Mail option where you will still be able to read messages on the group and post replies. Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com to receive individual e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 45106	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 12/11/2009
Subject: Re: Buying Cherry Shrimp

Okay, then a Severum ;) LOL Amber pam andress wrote: > Oh NO!!!!! I will not get one of those. :) > > Pam > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > From: warrenprint@... > Date: Fri, 11 Dec 2009 12:13:01 -0800 > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Buying Cherry Shrimp > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > You buy an Oscar? > > > > Just a thought, > > > > Bill > > > > --- On Fri, 12/11/09, pam andress <pamandress23@...> wrote: > > > > From: pam andress <pamandress23@...> > > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Buying Cherry Shrimp > > To: aquaticlife@yahoogroups.com > > Date: Friday, December 11, 2009, 2:59 PM > > > > I'm not chancing it. The green shrimp are more expensive then the cherry ones and if you do get mutts, then what do you do with all those shrimp? > > > > Pam > > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > From: arberglund@... > > Date: Fri, 11 Dec 2009 10:12:49 -0900 > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Buying Cherry Shrimp > > > > > > > > > > > > > > According to this site: > > > > http://www.planetinverts.com/Will%20These%20Shrimp%20Interbreed.html > > > > You can have green shrimp with red cherry shrimp and they shouldn't > > > > interbreed. > > > > Amber > > > > pam andress wrote: > > > > >> My green shrimp are Caridina. If you have looked at Lotsoffish 's auctions for them, they are the same ones as I got them from him. Yes they do blend into the plants and are harder to find. I have been told if you mix them with other colors, they do become a mutt brown, so I won't try it. >> > > > > > > > > >> Pam >> > > > > > > > > >> To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com >> > > > > >> From: GoldLenny@... >> > > > > >> Date: Fri, 11 Dec 2009 00:21:21 -0600 >> > > > > >> Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Buying Cherry Shrimp >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> >> > > > > > > > > > > > > >> >> > > > > >> >> > > > > >> >> > > > > >> What kind of shrimp are green shrimp? Is it just a morph of cherry "red" >> > > > > > > > > >> shrimp? I saw this with a quick Google, which shows this "green shrimp" to >> > > > > > > > > >> be a Caridina sp. The below snip claims there are several species of "green >> > > > > > > > > >> shrimp". Do you know which species you have? Are they also algae eaters >> > > > > > > > > >> like Cherry Shrimp? It seems like "green shrimp" might have a better >> > > > > > > > > >> success rate from predation since they would blend into the plants better so >> > > > > > > > > >> these might be a viable algae eater in tanks with fish that like a little >> > > > > > > > > >> shrimp snack from time to time. >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> http://www.planetinverts.com/Green%20Shrimp.html >> > > > > > > > > >> Dark Green Shrimp >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> Caridina sp. "Dark Green" >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> Overview >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> There has been a lot of confusion generated by the names "Green Shrimp," >> > > > > > > > > >> "Dark Green Shrimp," and "Green Neon Shrimp." There are several different >> > > > > > > > > >> scientific names that this shrimp has been given, and other breeders have >> > > > > > > > > >> stated that this is in fact an unnamed species of its own. >> > > > > > > > > >> (END SNIP) >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> With the coming Christmas Holiday Season, maybe some Red and Green shrimp >> > > > > > > > > >> will make my cherry shrimp tank more festive. ;-) >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> I wonder if they would inbreed, resulting in some mutt/plain looking shrimp? >> > > > > > > > > >> Probably so... but maybe not. Have you mixed them in the same tank with >> > > > > > > > > >> Cherry Shrimp to see if they mix breed? >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> Cherry shrimp is a Neocaridina sp. >> > > > > > > > > >> http://www.planetinverts.com/Red%20Cherry%20Shrimp.html unless the >> > > > > > > > > >> scientific name has changed again. >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> Lenny Vasbinder >> > > > > > > > > >> Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com >> > > > > > > > > >> (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right >> > > > > > > > > >> side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> -----Original Message----- >> > > > > > > > > >> From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On >> > > > > > > > > >> Behalf Of pam andress >> > > > > > > > > >> Sent: Thursday, December 10, 2009 10:52 PM >> > > > > > > > > >> To: aquaticlife@yahoogroups.com >> > > > > > > > > >> Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Buying Cherry Shrimp >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> Wow that's neat. >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> Yeah that was a big sale I was having. I was over run with them at the time. >> > > > > > > > > >> Now I'm down as I almost sold everything I had at that time. Right now I >> > > > > > > > > >> have more Green shrimp then Cherry, but I still can let some go if needed. >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> Pam >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com >> > > > > > > > > >> From: GoldLenny@... >> > > > > > > > > >> Date: Thu, 10 Dec 2009 21:40:46 -0600 >> > > > > > > > > >> Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Buying Cherry Shrimp >> > > > > > > > > >> >> > > > > > > > > >> >> > > > > > > > > >> >> > > > > > > > > >> Oh.. one other thing Pam... when I was Googling for your aquabid >> > > > > > > > > >> seller's >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> site, I found this forum post at >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> http://www.piranha-fury.com/pfury/lofiversion/index.php/t175597.html which >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> said, >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> "... ChilDawg Sep 3 2008, 08:13 PM Hey, Vik, you might want to check out >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> AquaBid or www.1hrauctions.com (a Saturday night-only auction site) for >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> Cherries. I had good luck with a seller named ucdxmisty...wound up getting >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> 30+ RCS for $10 plus $8 shipping. They're doing great!..." >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> It looks like you have a happy camper there! ;-) >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> Lenny Vasbinder >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> -----Original Message----- >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> Behalf Of pam andress >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> Sent: Thursday, December 10, 2009 1:56 PM >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> To: aquaticlife@yahoogroups.com >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Buying Cherry Shrimp >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> Hi Lenny, >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> Thats why I asked what she had in the tank. I also don't think just sending >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> 1 or 2 shrimp is cost effective with shipping charges. Especially at this >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> time of year when a heat pack has to be added. If she has a larger tank that >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> she could transfer the pleco into later, then it would be ok for a while. >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> Pam >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> ucdxmisty on Aquabid >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> >> > > > > >> >> > > > > > > > > >> >> > > > > >> >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> >> > > > > > > > > >> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> ------------------------------------ >> > > > > > > > > >> Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. >> > > > > >> ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> >> > > > > >> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- >> > > > > >> <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. >> > > > > >> We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. >> > > > > > > > > >> If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the home page. >> > > > > > > > > >> Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com to receive the digest, which includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email >> > > > > > > > > >> Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com for the No E-Mail option where you will still be able to read messages on the group and post replies. >> > > > > > > > > >> Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com to receive individual e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > ------------------------------------ > > > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. > > ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> > > PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- > > <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. > > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. > > > > If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the home page. > > > > Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com to receive the digest, which includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email > > > > Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com for the No E-Mail option where you will still be able to read messages on the group and post replies. > > > > Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com to receive individual e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > ------------------------------------ > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. > ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> > PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- > <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. > > If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the home page. > > Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com to receive the digest, which includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email > > Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com for the No E-Mail option where you will still be able to read messages on the group and post replies. > > Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com to receive individual e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links > > > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 45107	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 12/11/2009
Subject: Re: Buying Cherry Shrimp

It's good that they are saying that the Caridina sp. and Neocaridina sp. will not cross-breed but I also read on the "Dark Green Shrimp" page and on the Neocaridina heteropoda page that they do have green N. heteropoda shrimp, and other species of "green shrimp", so if you were to get the N. heteropoda var. Green Shrimp, they would be able to breed with the N. heteropoda var. Red Cherry Shrimp. It's important to know which genus and species you are buying which is one of the first things I asked Pam. ;-) Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Amber Berglund Sent: Friday, December 11, 2009 1:13 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Buying Cherry Shrimp According to this site: http://www.planetinverts.com/Will%20These%20Shrimp%20Interbreed.html You can have green shrimp with red cherry shrimp and they shouldn't interbreed. Amber pam andress wrote: > My green shrimp are Caridina. If you have looked at Lotsoffish 's auctions for them, they are the same ones as I got them from him. Yes they do blend into the plants and are harder to find. I have been told if you mix them with other colors, they do become a mutt brown, so I won't try it. > > Pam > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > From: GoldLenny@... > Date: Fri, 11 Dec 2009 00:21:21 -0600 > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Buying Cherry Shrimp > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > What kind of shrimp are green shrimp? Is it just a morph of cherry "red" > > shrimp? I saw this with a quick Google, which shows this "green > shrimp" to > > be a Caridina sp. The below snip claims there are several species of > "green > > shrimp". Do you know which species you have? Are they also algae > eaters > > like Cherry Shrimp? It seems like "green shrimp" might have a better > > success rate from predation since they would blend into the plants > better so > > these might be a viable algae eater in tanks with fish that like a > little > > shrimp snack from time to time. > > > > http://www.planetinverts.com/Green%20Shrimp.html > > Dark Green Shrimp > > > > Caridina sp. "Dark Green" > > > > Overview > > > > There has been a lot of confusion generated by the names "Green Shrimp," > > "Dark Green Shrimp," and "Green Neon Shrimp." There are several > different > > scientific names that this shrimp has been given, and other breeders > have > > stated that this is in fact an unnamed species of its own. > > (END SNIP) > > > > With the coming Christmas Holiday Season, maybe some Red and Green > shrimp > > will make my cherry shrimp tank more festive. ;-) > > > > I wonder if they would inbreed, resulting in some mutt/plain looking shrimp? > > Probably so... but maybe not. Have you mixed them in the same tank > with > > Cherry Shrimp to see if they mix breed? > > > > Cherry shrimp is a Neocaridina sp. > > http://www.planetinverts.com/Red%20Cherry%20Shrimp.html unless the > > scientific name has changed again. > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > > (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the > right > > side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, > Month) > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] > On > > Behalf Of pam andress > > Sent: Thursday, December 10, 2009 10:52 PM > > To: aquaticlife@yahoogroups.com > > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Buying Cherry Shrimp > > > > Wow that's neat. > > > > Yeah that was a big sale I was having. I was over run with them at the time. > > Now I'm down as I almost sold everything I had at that time. Right now > I > > have more Green shrimp then Cherry, but I still can let some go if needed. > > > > Pam > > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > From: GoldLenny@... > > Date: Thu, 10 Dec 2009 21:40:46 -0600 > > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Buying Cherry Shrimp > > > > > > > > Oh.. one other thing Pam... when I was Googling for your aquabid > > seller's > > > > site, I found this forum post at > > > > http://www.piranha-fury.com/pfury/lofiversion/index.php/t175597.html > which > > > > said, > > > > "... ChilDawg Sep 3 2008, 08:13 PM Hey, Vik, you might want to > check out > > > > AquaBid or www.1hrauctions.com (a Saturday night-only auction site) > for > > > > Cherries. I had good luck with a seller named ucdxmisty...wound up > getting > > > > 30+ RCS for $10 plus $8 shipping. They're doing great!..." > > > > It looks like you have a happy camper there! ;-) > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > > > > (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the > right > > > > side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, > Month) > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] > On > > > > Behalf Of pam andress > > > > Sent: Thursday, December 10, 2009 1:56 PM > > > > To: aquaticlife@yahoogroups.com > > > > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Buying Cherry Shrimp > > > > Hi Lenny, > > > > Thats why I asked what she had in the tank. I also don't think just > sending > > > > 1 or 2 shrimp is cost effective with shipping charges. Especially at > this > > > > time of year when a heat pack has to be added. If she has a larger > tank that > > > > she could transfer the pleco into later, then it would be ok for a while. > > > > Pam > > > > ucdxmisty on Aquabid

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 45108	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 12/11/2009
Subject: Re: Buying Cherry Shrimp

I have some goldfish looking over my shoulder at this email. I can't lip read but I'm pretty sure they're saying "Hey Pam... give 'em to us! We know what to do with them!" Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of pam andress Sent: Friday, December 11, 2009 1:59 PM To: aquaticlife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Buying Cherry Shrimp I'm not chancing it. The green shrimp are more expensive then the cherry ones and if you do get mutts, then what do you do with all those shrimp? Pam To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com From: arberglund@... Date: Fri, 11 Dec 2009 10:12:49 -0900 Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Buying Cherry Shrimp According to this site: http://www.planetinverts.com/Will%20These%20Shrimp%20Interbreed.html You can have green shrimp with red cherry shrimp and they shouldn't interbreed. Amber pam andress wrote: > My green shrimp are Caridina. If you have looked at Lotsoffish 's auctions for them, they are the same ones as I got them from him. Yes they do blend into the plants and are harder to find. I have been told if you mix them with other colors, they do become a mutt brown, so I won't try it. > > Pam

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 45109	From: cat.rose	Date: 12/11/2009
Subject: GloFish, aka Zebra Danio

I'm just curious: I have 2 GloFish (which I learned about after the fact and wouldn't have purchased them if I knew they were genetically altered). They both seem healthy, eat and poop normally, etc. The female got really bloated (I thought she was pregnant) but has never had any babies/eggs that I've seen, and has stayed bloated for months. The male started out looking fine, and then slowly he developed an underbite! His lower jaw sticks out farther than his upper jaw, and he definitely didn't come home that way. When I called PetSmart to ask about the bloated female, she said for some reason the female GloFish will get bloated for no apparent reason and just stay that way. ??? Thanks! Catherine [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 45110	From: Menagerie_Manager	Date: 12/11/2009
Subject: I bought a Squid for my Goldfish Tank!

. . . a Philips Power Sentry S10056600103/17 Black Power Squid 540 Joule Surge Protector, that is. They're on sale for $9.99 today, plus I got $10 credit for signing up for and using eBillme. So all together I managed to get two 8GB flashdrives and the surge protector for just under $40. I don't know if this surge protector would be good with a tank heater, but I'd only use a heater if I had to raise the temp to treat some ailment. http://www.buy.com/prod/philips-5-outlet-powersentry-540j-powersquid-surge-protector/q/loc/101/210644347.html?adid=17992 OR http://tinyurl.com/blacksquid DebR and the Three Goldfish (CB, Lucille, and Raven) [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 45111	From: Dora Smith	Date: 12/11/2009
Subject: Re: [Bulk] RE: [AquaticLife] Re: Buying Cherry Shrimp

I think I spent several hundred dollars setting up my original 10 gallon. Then $100 on the 20 gallon upgrade. Second hand aquariums aren't easy to find when you want them, Lenny. With the equipment you want in working condition, rare, and with the decorations you want, never. Then there's teh antibiotic and the half dozen kinds of fish food so the little dears can have the proper variety. The siphon, and all that. And I tried a couple of ideas that didn't work, like the battery operated vacuum. Now, once you get a tank properly going it doesn't cost a whole lot to maintain. Yours, Dora Smith Austin, TX tiggernut24@... ----- Original Message ----- From: "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@...> To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Friday, December 11, 2009 9:28 AM Subject: [Bulk] RE: [AquaticLife] Re: Buying Cherry Shrimp Cherry Shrimp are very small. Adults are barely an inch long, if that. 10 Cherry Shrimp added together probably have the same body mass as a single Zebra Danio (some are called GloFish when genetically engineered to have the Day-Glo type colors). For me, they seem to be opportunistic breeders so they'll only breed a lot if there's a lot of food for them to eat and will slow down as the food becomes scarcer. What kind of platies do you have? For LOTS more info on properly stocking a 10G tank for long term success, see my (and mostly Hailey's) blog article, "Hailey's 10 Gallon Tank Stocking Suggestions", http://goldlenny.blogspot.com/2007/03/haileys-10-gallon-tank-stocking-list.h tml I'm almost afraid to ask how you've spent $400.00 on a 10G tank. The last one I got, which was fully stocked (actually grossly overstocked with enough fish for over 100G), including an iron stand, tank, HOB filter, heater, etc., cost me $50.00. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of cat.rose Sent: Friday, December 11, 2009 7:58 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Buying Cherry Shrimp So 10 shrimp won't be too much? I have 3 platies (2 adult & 1 youth about 1/2 the size of the adults), 2 guppies, 2 GloFish. Plus plants. I don't have anything to keep extra shrimp in, and didn't really want to buy more tanks, etc. I've akready socked close to $400 in this 10 gal. :) Catherine --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@...> wrote: > > I think you should get more than one or two. Maybe 10 so they have a > chance to breed for you too. They don't live a long time so you'll > want some breeding for you or you'll be buying new ones all the time > and the shipping cost for just one or two would make the price WAY TOO > HIGH for a couple of cherry shrimp. The last time I checked on > Aquabid.com, they were selling lots of 10 for around a dollar a piece, > lower prices for higher volume. I'm not sure how much Pam (in this > group) is selling them for right now. It's time for Pam to list her > Aquabid ID again so folks can find her there. ;-) That seems to be the > one link I haven't saved... maybe I'll remember this time. > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles > referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically > under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) > > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] > On Behalf Of cat.rose > Sent: Thursday, December 10, 2009 11:33 AM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Subject: [AquaticLife] Buying Cherry Shrimp > > Hi there! > > I want to buy 1-2 cherry shrimp for my 10 gal freshwater tank to try > and keep the algae down. Drs. Foster & Smith sell them but they've > been "Unavailable" for sometime now. > > Anyone have a recommendation for another reputable on-line store to > buy them? > > Thanks! > Catherine ------------------------------------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the home page. Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com to receive the digest, which includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com for the No E-Mail option where you will still be able to read messages on the group and post replies. Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com to receive individual e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 45112	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 12/11/2009
Subject: Re: GloFish, aka Zebra Danio

Well, female ZD's are a little fatter than males. You can see the difference in the top picture here. http://badmanstropicalfish.com/profiles/profile54.html Glofish ZD's should be no different than normal ZD's except for the day-glo coloration. You can contact the source of these fish at http://www.glofish.com/contact.asp. Here's a suggestion for a name with the one with the under bite... http://blog.media-freaks.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/06/free-internet-games- for-kids13.jpg Maybe they should have left the genetic engineering alone and just let evolution take it's turn... http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=6358688455019405658&ei=t9oiS9qtOZPaq wKY34i_BA&q=beavis+and+butthead&hl=en Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of cat.rose Sent: Friday, December 11, 2009 3:48 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] GloFish, aka Zebra Danio I'm just curious: I have 2 GloFish (which I learned about after the fact and wouldn't have purchased them if I knew they were genetically altered). They both seem healthy, eat and poop normally, etc. The female got really bloated (I thought she was pregnant) but has never had any babies/eggs that I've seen, and has stayed bloated for months. The male started out looking fine, and then slowly he developed an underbite! His lower jaw sticks out farther than his upper jaw, and he definitely didn't come home that way. When I called PetSmart to ask about the bloated female, she said for some reason the female GloFish will get bloated for no apparent reason and just stay that way. ??? Thanks! Catherine

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 45113	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 12/11/2009
Subject: Re: [Bulk] RE: [AquaticLife] Re: Buying Cherry Shrimp

Smaller tanks and stuff are easier to find on your local FreeCycle group but I also see fish stuff being sold on Craigslist. My 65G, which was all new: $ 20.00 - DIY Tank Stand $125.00 - 65G Acrylic Tank, including shipping. $ 40.00 - Marineland 200 BioWheel (I actually had this already but am including it for this example) $109.00 - Rena Filstar xP-2 Canister Filter $ 30.00 - Two pieces of driftwood (from BigAlsOnline.com) and live plants (estimate) $ 10.00 - Gravel $ 5.00 - five clay pots $ 20.00 - estimate for plexiglass top (I already had this) $ 20.00 - 4' shop light and bulbs $ 10.00 - three fancy goldfish (three in the beginning but one choked to death on a piece of gravel.. PIG!) $390.00 - Total One of the 10G used systems I adopted/rescued... 1 - Common Pleco (traded in for $25.00 store credit in 2006) 3 - Zebra Danios 3 - Albino Buenos Aires Tetras 2 - Blue/Opaline Gouramis (not dwarfs) 10G tank with filter, gravel, fake plants, decorations, heater, etc. Wrought Iron Stand Box of miscellaneous stuff like food, aquarium salt (another rip-off product), etc. $50.00 - Total Other 10G to 20G tanks and accessories... FREE on FreeCycle and/or Craigslist Free Stuff Ads. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Dora Smith Sent: Friday, December 11, 2009 5:25 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [Bulk] RE: [AquaticLife] Re: Buying Cherry Shrimp I think I spent several hundred dollars setting up my original 10 gallon. Then $100 on the 20 gallon upgrade. Second hand aquariums aren't easy to find when you want them, Lenny. With the equipment you want in working condition, rare, and with the decorations you want, never. Then there's teh antibiotic and the half dozen kinds of fish food so the little dears can have the proper variety. The siphon, and all that. And I tried a couple of ideas that didn't work, like the battery operated vacuum. Now, once you get a tank properly going it doesn't cost a whole lot to maintain. Yours, Dora Smith Austin, TX tiggernut24@... ----- Original Message ----- From: "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@...> To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Friday, December 11, 2009 9:28 AM Subject: [Bulk] RE: [AquaticLife] Re: Buying Cherry Shrimp Cherry Shrimp are very small. Adults are barely an inch long, if that. 10 Cherry Shrimp added together probably have the same body mass as a single Zebra Danio (some are called GloFish when genetically engineered to have the Day-Glo type colors). For me, they seem to be opportunistic breeders so they'll only breed a lot if there's a lot of food for them to eat and will slow down as the food becomes scarcer. What kind of platies do you have? For LOTS more info on properly stocking a 10G tank for long term success, see my (and mostly Hailey's) blog article, "Hailey's 10 Gallon Tank Stocking Suggestions", http://goldlenny.blogspot.com/2007/03/haileys-10-gallon-tank-stocking-list.h tml I'm almost afraid to ask how you've spent $400.00 on a 10G tank. The last one I got, which was fully stocked (actually grossly overstocked with enough fish for over 100G), including an iron stand, tank, HOB filter, heater, etc., cost me $50.00. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of cat.rose Sent: Friday, December 11, 2009 7:58 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Buying Cherry Shrimp So 10 shrimp won't be too much? I have 3 platies (2 adult & 1 youth about 1/2 the size of the adults), 2 guppies, 2 GloFish. Plus plants. I don't have anything to keep extra shrimp in, and didn't really want to buy more tanks, etc. I've akready socked close to $400 in this 10 gal. :) Catherine --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@...> wrote: > > I think you should get more than one or two. Maybe 10 so they have a > chance to breed for you too. They don't live a long time so you'll > want some breeding for you or you'll be buying new ones all the time > and the shipping cost for just one or two would make the price WAY TOO > HIGH for a couple of cherry shrimp. The last time I checked on > Aquabid.com, they were selling lots of 10 for around a dollar a piece, > lower prices for higher volume. I'm not sure how much Pam (in this > group) is selling them for right now. It's time for Pam to list her > Aquabid ID again so folks can find her there. ;-) That seems to be the > one link I haven't saved... maybe I'll remember this time. > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles > referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically > under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) > > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] > On Behalf Of cat.rose > Sent: Thursday, December 10, 2009 11:33 AM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Subject: [AquaticLife] Buying Cherry Shrimp > > Hi there! > > I want to buy 1-2 cherry shrimp for my 10 gal freshwater tank to try > and keep the algae down. Drs. Foster & Smith sell them but they've > been "Unavailable" for sometime now. > > Anyone have a recommendation for another reputable on-line store to > buy them? > > Thanks! > Catherine

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 45114	From: pam andress	Date: 12/11/2009
Subject: Re: Buying Cherry Shrimp

Nope. Not one of those either. Nor a green terror or any other aggressive cichlid. Pam To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com From: arberglund@... Date: Fri, 11 Dec 2009 13:35:44 -0900 Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Buying Cherry Shrimp Okay, then a Severum ;) LOL Amber pam andress wrote: > Oh NO!!!!! I will not get one of those. :) > > Pam > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > From: warrenprint@... > Date: Fri, 11 Dec 2009 12:13:01 -0800 > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Buying Cherry Shrimp > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > You buy an Oscar? > > > > Just a thought, > > > > Bill > > > > --- On Fri, 12/11/09, pam andress <pamandress23@...> wrote: > > > > From: pam andress <pamandress23@...> > > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Buying Cherry Shrimp > > To: aquaticlife@yahoogroups.com > > Date: Friday, December 11, 2009, 2:59 PM > > > > I'm not chancing it. The green shrimp are more expensive then the cherry ones and if you do get mutts, then what do you do with all those shrimp? > > > > Pam > > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > From: arberglund@... > > Date: Fri, 11 Dec 2009 10:12:49 -0900 > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Buying Cherry Shrimp > > > > > > > > > > > > > > According to this site: > > > > http://www.planetinverts.com/Will%20These%20Shrimp%20Interbreed.html > > > > You can have green shrimp with red cherry shrimp and they shouldn't > > > > interbreed. > > > > Amber > > > > pam andress wrote: > > > > >> My green shrimp are Caridina. If you have looked at Lotsoffish 's auctions for them, they are the same ones as I got them from him. Yes they do blend into the plants and are harder to find. I have been told if you mix them with other colors, they do become a mutt brown, so I won't try it. >> > > > > > > > > >> Pam >> > > > > > > > > >> To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com >> > > > > >> From: GoldLenny@... >> > > > > >> Date: Fri, 11 Dec 2009 00:21:21 -0600 >> > > > > >> Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Buying Cherry Shrimp >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> >> > > > > > > > > > > > > >> >> > > > > >> >> > > > > >> >> > > > > >> What kind of shrimp are green shrimp? Is it just a morph of cherry "red" >> > > > > > > > > >> shrimp? I saw this with a quick Google, which shows this "green shrimp" to >> > > > > > > > > >> be a Caridina sp. The below snip claims there are several species of "green >> > > > > > > > > >> shrimp". Do you know which species you have? Are they also algae eaters >> > > > > > > > > >> like Cherry Shrimp? It seems like "green shrimp" might have a better >> > > > > > > > > >> success rate from predation since they would blend into the plants better so >> > > > > > > > > >> these might be a viable algae eater in tanks with fish that like a little >> > > > > > > > > >> shrimp snack from time to time. >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> http://www.planetinverts.com/Green%20Shrimp.html >> > > > > > > > > >> Dark Green Shrimp >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> Caridina sp. "Dark Green" >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> Overview >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> There has been a lot of confusion generated by the names "Green Shrimp," >> > > > > > > > > >> "Dark Green Shrimp," and "Green Neon Shrimp." There are several different >> > > > > > > > > >> scientific names that this shrimp has been given, and other breeders have >> > > > > > > > > >> stated that this is in fact an unnamed species of its own. >> > > > > > > > > >> (END SNIP) >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> With the coming Christmas Holiday Season, maybe some Red and Green shrimp >> > > > > > > > > >> will make my cherry shrimp tank more festive. ;-) >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> I wonder if they would inbreed, resulting in some mutt/plain looking shrimp? >> > > > > > > > > >> Probably so... but maybe not. Have you mixed them in the same tank with >> > > > > > > > > >> Cherry Shrimp to see if they mix breed? >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> Cherry shrimp is a Neocaridina sp. >> > > > > > > > > >> http://www.planetinverts.com/Red%20Cherry%20Shrimp.html unless the >> > > > > > > > > >> scientific name has changed again. >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> Lenny Vasbinder >> > > > > > > > > >> Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com >> > > > > > > > > >> (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right >> > > > > > > > > >> side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> -----Original Message----- >> > > > > > > > > >> From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On >> > > > > > > > > >> Behalf Of pam andress >> > > > > > > > > >> Sent: Thursday, December 10, 2009 10:52 PM >> > > > > > > > > >> To: aquaticlife@yahoogroups.com >> > > > > > > > > >> Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Buying Cherry Shrimp >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> Wow that's neat. >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> Yeah that was a big sale I was having. I was over run with them at the time. >> > > > > > > > > >> Now I'm down as I almost sold everything I had at that time. Right now I >> > > > > > > > > >> have more Green shrimp then Cherry, but I still can let some go if needed. >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> Pam >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com >> > > > > > > > > >> From: GoldLenny@... >> > > > > > > > > >> Date: Thu, 10 Dec 2009 21:40:46 -0600 >> > > > > > > > > >> Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Buying Cherry Shrimp >> > > > > > > > > >> >> > > > > > > > > >> >> > > > > > > > > >> >> > > > > > > > > >> Oh.. one other thing Pam... when I was Googling for your aquabid >> > > > > > > > > >> seller's >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> site, I found this forum post at >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> http://www.piranha-fury.com/pfury/lofiversion/index.php/t175597.html which >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> said, >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> "... ChilDawg Sep 3 2008, 08:13 PM Hey, Vik, you might want to check out >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> AquaBid or www.1hrauctions.com (a Saturday night-only auction site) for >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> Cherries. I had good luck with a seller named ucdxmisty...wound up getting >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> 30+ RCS for $10 plus $8 shipping. They're doing great!..." >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> It looks like you have a happy camper there! ;-) >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> Lenny Vasbinder >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> -----Original Message----- >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> Behalf Of pam andress >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> Sent: Thursday, December 10, 2009 1:56 PM >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> To: aquaticlife@yahoogroups.com >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Buying Cherry Shrimp >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> Hi Lenny, >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> Thats why I asked what she had in the tank. I also don't think just sending >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> 1 or 2 shrimp is cost effective with shipping charges. Especially at this >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> time of year when a heat pack has to be added. If she has a larger tank that >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> she could transfer the pleco into later, then it would be ok for a while. >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> Pam >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> ucdxmisty on Aquabid >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> >> > > > > >> >> > > > > > > > > >> >> > > > > >> >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> >> > > > > > > > > >> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> ------------------------------------ >> > > > > > > > > >> Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. >> > > > > >> ���`�.��.><((((�>.���`�.��.���`�.�><((((�> �.���`�.�. , .���`�..><((((�> >> > > > > >> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- >> > > > > >> <�((((><.���`�.��.���`�.�<�((((><�.���`�.�. , .���`�..<�((((><���`�.��. >> > > > > >> We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. >> > > > > > > > > >> If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the home page. >> > > > > > > > > >> Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com to receive the digest, which includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email >> > > > > > > > > >> Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com for the No E-Mail option where you will still be able to read messages on the group and post replies. >> > > > > > > > > >> Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com to receive individual e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > ------------------------------------ > > > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. > > ���`�.��.><((((�>.���`�.��.���`�.�><((((�> �.���`�.�. , .���`�..><((((�> > > PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- > > <�((((><.���`�.��.���`�.�<�((((><�.���`�.�. , .���`�..<�((((><���`�.��. > > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. > > > > If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the home page. > > > > Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com to receive the digest, which includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email > > > > Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com for the No E-Mail option where you will still be able to read messages on the group and post replies. > > > > Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com to receive individual e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > ------------------------------------ > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. > ���`�.��.><((((�>.���`�.��.���`�.�><((((�> �.���`�.�. , .���`�..><((((�> > PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- > <�((((><.���`�.��.���`�.�<�((((><�.���`�.�. , .���`�..<�((((><���`�.��. > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. > > If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the home page. > > Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com to receive the digest, which includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email > > Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com for the No E-Mail option where you will still be able to read messages on the group and post replies. > > Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com to receive individual e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 45115	From: pam andress	Date: 12/11/2009
Subject: Re: Buying Cherry Shrimp

Very funny Lenny. Pam I have some goldfish looking over my shoulder at this email. I can't lip read but I'm pretty sure they're saying "Hey Pam... give 'em to us! We know what to do with them!" Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) I'm not chancing it. The green shrimp are more expensive then the cherry ones and if you do get mutts, then what do you do with all those shrimp? Pam [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 45116	From: Dora Smith	Date: 12/11/2009
Subject: Re: I bought a Squid for my Goldfish Tank!

Oh! LOL! I was seeing goldfish run for cover! Yours, Dora Smith Austin, TX tiggernut24@... ----- Original Message ----- From: "Menagerie_Manager" <menagerie_manager@...> To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Friday, December 11, 2009 5:10 PM Subject: [AquaticLife] I bought a Squid for my Goldfish Tank! . . . a Philips Power Sentry S10056600103/17 Black Power Squid 540 Joule Surge Protector, that is. They're on sale for $9.99 today, plus I got $10 credit for signing up for and using eBillme. So all together I managed to get two 8GB flashdrives and the surge protector for just under $40. I don't know if this surge protector would be good with a tank heater, but I'd only use a heater if I had to raise the temp to treat some ailment. http://www.buy.com/prod/philips-5-outlet-powersentry-540j-powersquid-surge-protector/q/loc/101/210644347.html?adid=17992 OR http://tinyurl.com/blacksquid DebR and the Three Goldfish (CB, Lucille, and Raven) [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] ------------------------------------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the home page. Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com to receive the digest, which includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com for the No E-Mail option where you will still be able to read messages on the group and post replies. Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com to receive individual e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 45117	From: Menagerie_Manager	Date: 12/11/2009
Subject: Re: I bought a Squid for my Goldfish Tank!

What, you mean squids and goldfish aren't compatible??? Yeah, I figured someone might need a chuckle to break up the holiday rushing about. That squid will take a couple of extension cords out of my electrical tangle. DebR and the Three Goldfish (CB, Lucille, and Raven) ----- Original Message ----- From: "Dora Smith" <tiggernut24@...> To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Friday, December 11, 2009 7:51 PM Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] I bought a Squid for my Goldfish Tank! > Oh! LOL! > > I was seeing goldfish run for cover! > > Yours, > Dora Smith > Austin, TX > tiggernut24@... > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Menagerie_Manager" <menagerie_manager@...> > To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com> > Sent: Friday, December 11, 2009 5:10 PM > Subject: [AquaticLife] I bought a Squid for my Goldfish Tank! > > > . . . a Philips Power Sentry S10056600103/17 Black Power Squid 540 Joule > Surge Protector, that is. They're on sale for $9.99 today, plus I got $10 > credit for signing up for and using eBillme. So all together I managed to > get two 8GB flashdrives and the surge protector for just under $40. > > I don't know if this surge protector would be good with a tank heater, > but I'd only use a heater if I had to raise the temp to treat some > ailment. > > http://www.buy.com/prod/philips-5-outlet-powersentry-540j-powersquid-surge-protector/q/loc/101/210644347.html?adid=17992 > > OR > http://tinyurl.com/blacksquid > > DebR and the Three Goldfish > (CB, Lucille, and Raven) > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > ------------------------------------ > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. > ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> > PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to > the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the > SUBJECT > LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- > <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. > > If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of unsubscribing, you > can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the > home page. > > Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com to receive the digest, which > includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email > > Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com for the No E-Mail option where > you will still be able to read messages on the group and post replies. > > Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com to receive individual > e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > ------------------------------------ > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. > ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> > PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to > the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the > SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- > <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. > > If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of unsubscribing, you > can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the > home page. > > Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com to receive the digest, which > includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email > > Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com for the No E-Mail option where > you will still be able to read messages on the group and post replies. > > Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com to receive individual > e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links > > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 45118	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 12/12/2009
Subject: Innes Book on Google Books

For those of you who may have followed the short thread between Ray and myself on the older literature available in the hobby, and for those who may just have an innate or idle curiosity, you might want to have a look at this document. William T. Innes is referred to, by some, as the father of the aquarium hobby in this country, others call him the godfather. Either way, he did a lot to advance the hobby in this country. I just ran across a scanned copy of Innes's _Goldfish Varieties and Tropical Aquarium Fishes_ with a date of 1917. The scan is of good quality, and the table of contents is hyperlinked to the rest of the document, which can help in navigating through the document. http://books.google.com/books?id=fd4qAAAAYAAJ&dq=aquarium+aquaria&printsec=f rontcover&source=bl&ots=8vFHnu12Oi&sig=VrOPi1-UbSpA09kB4dFSRbcW97M&hl=en#v=o nepage&q=&f=false http://tinyurl.com/ydw3a8v \\Steve//

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 45119	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 12/12/2009
Subject: Re: I bought a Squid for my Goldfish Tank!

My goldfish say that they're "not afraid of no squid" (to Ghostbuster's music) and they say that they actually like squid... preferably in small bite sized pieces... or ground up with lots of veggies in a gel food recipe... but their personal chef doesn't buy the stuff so they have to be happy with shrimp and crabmeat instead. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Menagerie_Manager Sent: Friday, December 11, 2009 10:25 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] I bought a Squid for my Goldfish Tank! What, you mean squids and goldfish aren't compatible??? Yeah, I figured someone might need a chuckle to break up the holiday rushing about. That squid will take a couple of extension cords out of my electrical tangle. DebR and the Three Goldfish (CB, Lucille, and Raven) ----- Original Message ----- From: "Dora Smith" <tiggernut24@...> To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Friday, December 11, 2009 7:51 PM Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] I bought a Squid for my Goldfish Tank! > Oh! LOL! > > I was seeing goldfish run for cover! > > Yours, > Dora Smith > Austin, TX > tiggernut24@... > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Menagerie_Manager" <menagerie_manager@...> > To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com> > Sent: Friday, December 11, 2009 5:10 PM > Subject: [AquaticLife] I bought a Squid for my Goldfish Tank! > > > . . . a Philips Power Sentry S10056600103/17 Black Power Squid 540 Joule > Surge Protector, that is. They're on sale for $9.99 today, plus I got $10 > credit for signing up for and using eBillme. So all together I managed to > get two 8GB flashdrives and the surge protector for just under $40. > > I don't know if this surge protector would be good with a tank heater, > but I'd only use a heater if I had to raise the temp to treat some > ailment. > > http://www.buy.com/prod/philips-5-outlet-powersentry-540j-powersquid-surge-p rotector/q/loc/101/210644347.html?adid=17992 > > OR > http://tinyurl.com/blacksquid > > DebR and the Three Goldfish > (CB, Lucille, and Raven)

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 45120	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 12/12/2009
Subject: Re: Innes Book on Google Books

UH OH... now I see where the fish-killing "one inch per gallon" rule comes from... On page 17 of the PDF download version of the book, Innes says, "... The proper rule is this: Once inch of fish to one gallon of water. That is, in a ten-gallon aquarium of the usual oblong shape, well planted and in a good light, one could successfully keep ten one-inch fish, or five two-inch or two five-inch fish. Successful aquarists adhere to this rule, and for some of the fancy and more delicate varieties, even more water per fish is allowed..." I was with Innes for the "ten one-inch fish, or five two-inch" but he lost my support at the two five-inch fish and although he didn't say one ten-inch fish, he doesn't dissuade this potential fish which fits into *his* rule. Using this "rule", one could supposedly keep two fancy 5" goldfish in a 10G tank or a 10" Oscar... NO YOU CAN'T!!!! Either of these scenarios would require a 55G AND UP sized tank. Sorry Innes!!! My blog articles, "10 Gallon Tank Stocking Suggestions" and "NEW rules (guidelines) to replace the 1" per gallon, FISH KILLING, rule (guideline) for Freshwater Aquariums", both of which can be read on this link, http://goldlenny.blogspot.com/search/label/1%22%20Per%20Gallon%20Fish-Killin g%20Rule sets forth MUCH better stocking guidelines for 10G tank and for all other sized tanks. All that said, for historical purposes, the book is very nice and I'm sure it does have lots of other good info... but for current books, I always look at their stocking guidelines to determine if the author really knows what they are talking about. I'm sure Innes would have made many changes knowing what we know today. ;-) Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Steve Szabo Sent: Saturday, December 12, 2009 8:22 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Innes Book on Google Books For those of you who may have followed the short thread between Ray and myself on the older literature available in the hobby, and for those who may just have an innate or idle curiosity, you might want to have a look at this document. William T. Innes is referred to, by some, as the father of the aquarium hobby in this country, others call him the godfather. Either way, he did a lot to advance the hobby in this country. I just ran across a scanned copy of Innes's _Goldfish Varieties and Tropical Aquarium Fishes_ with a date of 1917. The scan is of good quality, and the table of contents is hyperlinked to the rest of the document, which can help in navigating through the document. http://books.google.com/books?id=fd4qAAAAYAAJ&dq=aquarium+aquaria&printsec=f rontcover&source=bl&ots=8vFHnu12Oi&sig=VrOPi1-UbSpA09kB4dFSRbcW97M&hl=en#v=o nepage&q=&f=false http://tinyurl.com/ydw3a8v \\Steve//

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 45121	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 12/12/2009
Subject: Re: Innes Book on Google Books

Lenny, I am sure that the 1 inch rule goes back further than Innes, but I could not give you a reference to confirm it. \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Lenny V. aka GoldLenny Sent: Saturday, December 12, 2009 12:39 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Innes Book on Google Books UH OH... now I see where the fish-killing "one inch per gallon" rule comes from... On page 17 of the PDF download version of the book, Innes says, "... The proper rule is this: Once inch of fish to one gallon of water. That is, in a ten-gallon aquarium of the usual oblong shape, well planted and in a good light, one could successfully keep ten one-inch fish, or five two-inch or two five-inch fish. Successful aquarists adhere to this rule, and for some of the fancy and more delicate varieties, even more water per fish is allowed..." I was with Innes for the "ten one-inch fish, or five two-inch" but he lost my support at the two five-inch fish and although he didn't say one ten-inch fish, he doesn't dissuade this potential fish which fits into *his* rule. Using this "rule", one could supposedly keep two fancy 5" goldfish in a 10G tank or a 10" Oscar... NO YOU CAN'T!!!! Either of these scenarios would require a 55G AND UP sized tank. Sorry Innes!!! My blog articles, "10 Gallon Tank Stocking Suggestions" and "NEW rules (guidelines) to replace the 1" per gallon, FISH KILLING, rule (guideline) for Freshwater Aquariums", both of which can be read on this link, http://goldlenny.blogspot.com/search/label/1%22%20Per%20Gallon%20Fish-Killin g%20Rule sets forth MUCH better stocking guidelines for 10G tank and for all other sized tanks. All that said, for historical purposes, the book is very nice and I'm sure it does have lots of other good info... but for current books, I always look at their stocking guidelines to determine if the author really knows what they are talking about. I'm sure Innes would have made many changes knowing what we know today. ;-) Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Steve Szabo Sent: Saturday, December 12, 2009 8:22 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Innes Book on Google Books For those of you who may have followed the short thread between Ray and myself on the older literature available in the hobby, and for those who may just have an innate or idle curiosity, you might want to have a look at this document. William T. Innes is referred to, by some, as the father of the aquarium hobby in this country, others call him the godfather. Either way, he did a lot to advance the hobby in this country. I just ran across a scanned copy of Innes's _Goldfish Varieties and Tropical Aquarium Fishes_ with a date of 1917. The scan is of good quality, and the table of contents is hyperlinked to the rest of the document, which can help in navigating through the document. http://books.google.com/books?id=fd4qAAAAYAAJ&dq=aquarium+aquaria&printsec=f rontcover&source=bl&ots=8vFHnu12Oi&sig=VrOPi1-UbSpA09kB4dFSRbcW97M&hl=en#v=o nepage&q=&f=false http://tinyurl.com/ydw3a8v \\Steve// ------------------------------------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. 74/`7.88.><((((:>.74/`7.88.74/`7.8><((((:> 8.74/`7.8. , .74/`7..><((((:> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <:((((><.74/`7.88.74/`7.8<:((((><8.74/`7.8. , .74/`7..<:((((><74/`7.88. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the home page. Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com to receive the digest, which includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com for the No E-Mail option where you will still be able to read messages on the group and post replies. Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com to receive individual e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 45122	From: sevenspringss@wmconnect.com	Date: 12/12/2009
Subject: Re: Innes Book on Google Books

\\Steve//, Nice find as far as site links go on the internet. If members care to open and go up to this link, they'll now get some idea of Innes' universality of relevance of his information in its timeless application. Much of the basics of what he wrote about 92 years ago still holds true today. This book's extreme popularity was no doubt due in great part to these principles of which he wrote -- I note there were no less than 6 editions alone printed in the first year of its introduction, costing only $3 at the time. While I don't have one of these first editions, my first one was an edition from 1921 that I found a number of years ago. I particularly like the chapter on Judging Goldfish Competitions which not only diagrams how goldfish finnage is judged from their side views but from the top view as well, similar to how Koi are viewed for their markings -- and which I posted about here several years ago. An early (1917) ad for this book states, there are 250 pages, with 195 illustrations and in addition to goldfish (common and fancy) it covers nearly 300 tropicals. The book was enlarged, almost with each new edition. A 1929 edition I have has 306 pages. That same year that Innes brought out his "Goldfish Varieties and Tropical Aquarium Fishes," he also published his "The Complete Aquarium Book," (317 pages) also filled with a wealth of information, which "speaks volumes" for his aquarium knowledge. The 1" per gallon rule which we now recommend only for fish up to about 3" or so, cannot be ruled out for larger fish but then it comes down to the matter of practicality in maintenance -- even though it should be ruled out. We (including myself) don't recommend using this 1" per gallon rule for any fishes much over 3", and actively discourage this rule's use for any fish over this size, but this is not to say that larger fish cannot be maintained using this rule in providing the fish an adequate environment to maintain it with proper conditions to support its life functions, if the aquarist wants to take on the burden of more maintenance -- it all comes down to what's practical. For all practical purposes, the hobbyist should expect to maintain proper water parameters with providing reasonable PWC's on average of every week, as is found to be necessary to preserve good water quality for the fish. More and/or larger fish in the same tank may be maintained, but not without larger and more frequent water changes -- until it reaches a point to where this additional work becomes impractical. A 10" fish in a 10 gallon tank may be maintained via additional (possibly daily -- and/or more frequent?) large PWC's but is hardly advised, not to mention the loss of quality of life when the 10" fish can just about turn around in this 10" wide tank -- and this would only be via artificial means, with mechanical filtration and aeration. If the power goes out, this artificial means is lost. While even two 5" fish may be maintained in a 10 gallon tank -- with much additional work -- not only is it impractical, but the loss of the physical quality of the environment (space) remains when there is relatively less swimming space for the fish; again, not recommended and also discouraged but only to demonstrate that it's doable (for the foolhardy) but only with an even greater workload especially as (if) the temperature rises -- which will not become a losing proposition only if the hobbyist can devote ever-increasing attention towards this end. In the meantime, there's an increased loss of quality of life as the fish find themselves more confined as they grow. Innes' "Goldfish Varieties and Water Gardens" publication (385 pages) is another informative book, even more dedicated to goldfish than is the book of this subject, but his "Goldfish Varieties and Tropical Aquarium Fishes" is only superceded in its duration of publication time by his "Exotic Aquarium Fishes," which spans an era from 1935 to 1957 with 19 editions, plus a revised 19th edition in 1964 by a subsidiary publishing company. My first one, the 14th Edition, was given to me as a gift in 1952 (from my mother) costing between $7 and $8 at the time, to which I've added others over the years. There have been many subsequent copies of this book printed by various other publishers over the ensuing years, which some members here may have and which supports its value of content. Ray [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 45123	From: amejia1976	Date: 12/12/2009
Subject: Re: Planted Aquarium

So far so good - kinda Test results have not changed 12/11/09 pH @ 7.6 Ammonia @ 0 Nitrite @ 0 Nitrate @ 10ppm All feeder guppies were sucked into netting and some of the shrimp did not seem to like each other. On a happy note, seems one of the guppies was prego and now I have a fry; 10 of them that I can count. I will take this to be a good thing if they have made it 5 days so far. Thanks on the info on the Purigen, it definitelly seems like a great product and what might be my salvation. Wish I could read the blog while @ work but its content is blocked - ohh well, gives me something to do when... Today I will do a water change, hopefully this will not mess things up :)- and I can keep posting good news. Thanks again ppl! Alex (btw- I am a guy. Someone refered to me as a she earlier :)) Then again, I ahve been called worse.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 45124	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 12/13/2009
Subject: Giant Jellyfish

http://www.environmentalgraffiti.com/featured/giant-jellyfish/18043 http://tinyurl.com/yceaaxj Giant Jellyfish!!! Mon, Dec 7, 2009 They came from the deep - swarms of giant jellyfish that can sink trawlers and strike fear into the hearts of fishermen. Growing to almost seven feet wide, weighing a sumo-sized 450lb (200kg), and armed with myriad stinging tentacles, Echizen kurage sound like the stuff of Japanese sci-fi, yet the threat they pose is as real as it gets. Since 2005, these slimy horrors have been wreaking havoc in the waters off the coast of Japan - and how to stop them is anyone's guess. Over recent summers, the gelatinous giants, known as Nomura's Jellyfish in English, have mysteriously materialised in the Korean peninsula and Yellow Sea off China before drifting across the oceanic void to terrorise the people of Japan. These huge marauding armadas have caused devastation due to their habit of clogging up and destroying fishermen's nets with their sheer bulk, or poisoning and besliming catches with their toxic tentacles, leaving the fish inedible and worthless. ------------<continued at link>----------- \\Steve//

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 45125	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 12/13/2009
Subject: Re: Planted Aquarium

What do you mean by "All feeder guppies were sucked into netting..."? I hope you meant none of them were. Also, what kind of activity did you see that led you to believe the shrimp did not like each other? Yes, your guppies should breed like... well, guppies. You should be alarmed if they aren't breeding like crazy. LOL If I was going to keep guppies, I would keep the males and females segregated except for occasional mixing when I wanted more. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of amejia1976 Sent: Sunday, December 13, 2009 1:40 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Planted Aquarium So far so good - kinda Test results have not changed 12/11/09 pH @ 7.6 Ammonia @ 0 Nitrite @ 0 Nitrate @ 10ppm All feeder guppies were sucked into netting and some of the shrimp did not seem to like each other. On a happy note, seems one of the guppies was prego and now I have a fry; 10 of them that I can count. I will take this to be a good thing if they have made it 5 days so far. Thanks on the info on the Purigen, it definitelly seems like a great product and what might be my salvation. Wish I could read the blog while @ work but its content is blocked - ohh well, gives me something to do when... Today I will do a water change, hopefully this will not mess things up :)- and I can keep posting good news. Thanks again ppl! Alex (btw- I am a guy. Someone refered to me as a she earlier :)) Then again, I ahve been called worse.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 45126	From: kuradi8	Date: 12/13/2009
Subject: It's a Christmas Miracle!

No, not quite. But in the last few weeks, my 55g water suddenly turned to pea soup. Accurel-F seemed to have no effect on it, neither did the towel I added for shade on the picture window side (that side already has automotive window tinting on it) and neither did my slightly more aggressive PWCs. Water chemistry remained good throughout. I wondered if adding the new 2nd HOB filter might have had something to do with it. But as mysteriously as the pea soup appeared, it has suddenly cleared up in the last 4-5 days. And my tank looks great again. :o) On a completely different note, Nessie the Tank Monster (she's a Burmese Upside Down Catfish -- mystus leucophasis) has always loved Wardley brand algae disks that I buy at my local Walmart. I recently bought a bulk bag of HBH brand and she spits out nearly every one that she eats. Darn it, she has become a picky eater. (she wasn't so picky when she ate all her tank mates a few years ago...) ~Kai

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 45127	From: Lainey Alexander	Date: 12/13/2009
Subject: Blue rams hatching!

My blue ram pair have eggs in the cavity of a rock that appear to be "hatching". By this I mean the eggs are trembling quite a bit and wriggling, and getting to look more and more like fry. The family is in a 37gallon tank with rummy nose tetras, cory catfish and galaxy rasboras. Can someone advise me as to what I should do to prepare for their birth, if anything? I have brine shrimp hatching daily and I have a spare cycled 10g if needed which is empty but running. Should I just leave things alone? How many times per day should I feed the BBS if the babies successfully hatch? Thanks for feedback... Lainey http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 45128	From: sevenspringss@wmconnect.com	Date: 12/13/2009
Subject: Re: Blue rams hatching!

Lainey, There are a number of dangers that these fry will need to overcome for them to survive as future tank members. Depending on how many you're looking to raise, your next steps would indicate their rate of survival. I note you have a spare, running, "empty" 10 gallon tank available to you if needed. The first danger these fry will encounter in their present environment is that after hatching and before they are free-swimming, they will have the tendency to detach from this rock with the result that an undetermined amount of them will fall to the substrate. The parents will make every attempt they can to replace them near the spawning site, lifting them from the gravel but depending on the courseness of your gravel, an amount of these yet-to-be-swimming fry will be lost when they fall unretrieveably down between the gravel grains where the parents can't reach them. The second danger of course, will be predation by these other fish, with your Rummy Nose Tetras posing the most threat, Here, the parents will do their best in preventing this, chasing the intruders off, but the temptation of free food (fry) will see repeated attempts by your other fish to get to these fry -- depending on how heavily stocked your tank is. As I don't know how many Cory's, Rummy-Nose Tetras and Galaxy Rasboras (true identity -- Celestial Pearl Danio) you have, I can't know how much of a threat they'll continue to be. Know that this will be an ongoing threat though, as the fry venture further away from the parents. There will always be an increasing amount of fry venturing away from the parents as they continue to grow, which may not find sufficient cover at all times. A third danger will be in not being able to get enough food to these fry, and/or in trying to do so, excess food may compromise the water value. In feeding newly-hatched brine shrimp, no doubt the other fish will take at least their fair share of this food, leaving a much smaller quantity of it than you intended for the fry, unless you can find some way of concentrated this food in the fry's area -- perhaps with a turkey baster or some other instrument. Then too, this food will again attract the other fish to this area when they discover it. If your goal is to save as many fry as you can, you'd need to transfer them to the 10 gallon tank after they hatch, or at the very latest, right after they become free-swimming -- via siphoning them from this 37 gallon tank into a small vessel, to then be moved to your 10 gallon tank. If you feel you can't accomplish this, they may be moved with the rock while still attached to it, or -- depending on this rock's immediate vicinity's allowances for performing this -- you may sweep the fry up in a brine shrimp net with figure-eight motions right after they become free-swimming. For best ease of maintenance, this 10 gallon tank optimally should have a bare bottom to facilitate syphoning of waste off when maintaining this fry tank. Too, if transferring the fry to this 10 gallon tank while they are still unhatched eggs or wrigglers (hatched, but not yet free-swimming fry), a bare bottom (no gravel) would be essential to prevent the fry from falling into (between grains) the gravel where they couldn't escape. If transferring the fry after they're free-swimming, you may keep the 10 gallon's gravel in place but it will hinder best assurances of keeping the bottom free of organic debris (dead brine shrimp, etc.). Fry should be fed at least twice a day with the newly-hatched brine shrimp you're intending to feed them -- preferably three times a day. For maximum growth, they may be fed up to five times a day, beyond which there is little extra benefit. Additional maintenance goes along with additional feedings to insure best water conditions for the fry. Ray [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 45129	From: Lainey Alexander	Date: 12/13/2009
Subject: Re: Blue rams hatching!

Yikes. Thank you so much, Ray, I think I understand all the issues. On a bright note, I had an overdose of guppy fry recently, and tried to feed them to the adults in this tank and there were no takers! I had to scoop out the fry and feed them to my voracious male Betta. I planned to move the female gupps into the 10g soon to prevent this type of thing, but could postpone since I have the Betta:( I'm really torn about raising these Rams. I'm very excited to have them, and would very much like to raise them, but on the other hand, it breaks my heart to take them to even the best LFS. I can see that the conditions are not even in the ballpark of what I consider minimally acceptable. And who knows where they go after that, IF they survive the LFS which is not a sure bet considering how many corpses I always see in those stores. That leaves me with shipping, which scares me just about as much. Fish I have received via mail are often dead - not always but often enough. Who's to say I would beat the odds there? If I knew I could sell them or even give them away to good people who would drive to my house, I would be highly motivated to preserve each baby. Do you think there is any likelihood that people would want to come pick them up from me? I live in western Massachusetts, if that matters... Thanks again, for this totally thorough assessment! Lainey http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com On Dec 13, 2009, at 10:28 PM, sevenspringss@... wrote: > Lainey, There are a number of dangers that these fry will need to > overcome > for them to survive as future tank members. Depending on how many > you're > looking to raise, your next steps would indicate their rate of > survival. I > note you have a spare, running, "empty" 10 gallon tank available to > you if > needed. > > The first danger these fry will encounter in their present > environment is > that after hatching and before they are free-swimming, they will > have the > tendency to detach from this rock with the result that an > undetermined amount > of them will fall to the substrate. The parents will make every > attempt they > can to replace them near the spawning site, lifting them from the > gravel > but depending on the courseness of your gravel, an amount of these > yet-to-be-swimming fry will be lost when they fall unretrieveably > down between the > gravel grains where the parents can't reach them. > > The second danger of course, will be predation by these other fish, > with > your Rummy Nose Tetras posing the most threat, Here, the parents > will do > their best in preventing this, chasing the intruders off, but the > temptation of > free food (fry) will see repeated attempts by your other fish to > get to > these fry -- depending on how heavily stocked your tank is. As I > don't know how > many Cory's, Rummy-Nose Tetras and Galaxy Rasboras (true identity -- > Celestial Pearl Danio) you have, I can't know how much of a threat > they'll > continue to be. Know that this will be an ongoing threat though, as > the fry > venture further away from the parents. There will always be an > increasing amount > of fry venturing away from the parents as they continue to grow, > which may > not find sufficient cover at all times. > > A third danger will be in not being able to get enough food to > these fry, > and/or in trying to do so, excess food may compromise the water > value. In > feeding newly-hatched brine shrimp, no doubt the other fish will > take at least > their fair share of this food, leaving a much smaller quantity of > it than > you intended for the fry, unless you can find some way of > concentrated this > food in the fry's area -- perhaps with a turkey baster or some other > instrument. Then too, this food will again attract the other fish > to this area > when they discover it. > > If your goal is to save as many fry as you can, you'd need to > transfer them > to the 10 gallon tank after they hatch, or at the very latest, > right after > they become free-swimming -- via siphoning them from this 37 gallon > tank > into a small vessel, to then be moved to your 10 gallon tank. If > you feel you > can't accomplish this, they may be moved with the rock while still > attached > to it, or -- depending on this rock's immediate vicinity's > allowances for > performing this -- you may sweep the fry up in a brine shrimp net with > figure-eight motions right after they become free-swimming. > > For best ease of maintenance, this 10 gallon tank optimally should > have a > bare bottom to facilitate syphoning of waste off when maintaining > this fry > tank. Too, if transferring the fry to this 10 gallon tank while > they are > still unhatched eggs or wrigglers (hatched, but not yet free- > swimming fry), a > bare bottom (no gravel) would be essential to prevent the fry from > falling > into (between grains) the gravel where they couldn't escape. If > transferring > the fry after they're free-swimming, you may keep the 10 gallon's > gravel in > place but it will hinder best assurances of keeping the bottom free of > organic debris (dead brine shrimp, etc.). > > Fry should be fed at least twice a day with the newly-hatched brine > shrimp > you're intending to feed them -- preferably three times a day. For > maximum > growth, they may be fed up to five times a day, beyond which there > is little > extra benefit. Additional maintenance goes along with additional > feedings > to insure best water conditions for the fry. Ray > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 45130	From: sevenspringss@wmconnect.com	Date: 12/14/2009
Subject: Re: Blue rams hatching!

Lainey, Of course, you could just let nature take its course in your 37 gallon tank and see how many fry make it. By adding some cover for them, like broken clay flowerpot sides laid flat with the arch creating caves and/or some dense plants like Java Fern or Najas, some will stand a better chance of surviving. You must remember, guppy fry are about 10 times the size of Dwarf Cichlid fry, so these guys are at much greater risk being the much smaller size that they are. Shipping fish is not difficult during proper weather conditions when the weather is warmer. There are heat packs available also, for colder weather, and while you'll need to take a few months to grow these out as juveniles, I'd just like to add that it's not adviseable to ship fish even with heat pack when the weather here up north remains much below freezing -- unless you're shipping by direct air freight from airport to airport for pick up there. Since you're in western Massachusetts, I'd strongly advise you to look into attending (perhaps joining) the Pioneer Valley Aquarium Society, especially since this may be an outlet for some of your Rams. They meet on the first Tuesday of the month (January 5th, 2010 -- next meeting) at 7:00 PM -- at the Springfield Science Museum. Further info can be obtained at their website: < www.pvas.net >. They will be holding a giant fish auction (no, the fish are normal size -- LOL) at the Chicopee Elks Hall (Chicopee, Mass.) on February 14, 2010. Doors open at 9:30 AM (auction starts at 11:00 AM), so there's another place to sell some of your fish. Get there early if you're bringing fish to sell. While I understand they will not be full size, many hobbyists prefer buying a bag of six or so juveniles to raise in their water. Additionally, since you're also not too far from the Hartford, Connecticut area, you ought to look into attending the annual NEC (North East Council -- of Aquarium Societies) on the weekend of February 26 through 28, 2010, this year being held at the Crown Plaza Hotel in Cromwell, CT. They hold a hugh fish auction on the third day (Sunday, 2/28/10) of the event. This would be another outlet for your fish. Website address: < www.northeastcouncil.org >. At least two of the moderators here will be at this event, including myself. Also, in the Hartford area is the Greater Hartford Aquarium Society (< www.ghasct.org >), which meets on the 4th Tuesday of the month at the Lutz Children's Museum, Manchester, CT. Many of the clubs hold monthly fish auctions as part of their meetings, albeit on a smaller scale. Here's yet another outlet for your fish, as well as a good source of quality home-grown fish being brought in by the other members. I'm sure that once you became established in these organizations, you would have no trouble at all with other hobbyists wanting to come to your place to pick up fish, too. Ray [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 45131	From: bill 1433	Date: 12/14/2009
Subject: Re: Blue rams hatching!

Hi Lainey,   I can only offer you this, if you lived in Northeastern Pennsylvania, you would NOT have a Blue Ram fry problem!   I have tried, and failed for almost a year, to do exactly what you have done, as if by "Magic"   Sitting down here, green not from algae but envy, I can only tell you to, enjoy, enjoy.  If enough fry prosper, it's the perfect excuse to get a larger tank!   Best wishes and please keep us posted on their up-bringing,   Bill --- On Sun, 12/13/09, Lainey Alexander <lainealex@...> wrote: From: Lainey Alexander <lainealex@...> Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Blue rams hatching! To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Date: Sunday, December 13, 2009, 11:27 PM Yikes. Thank you so much, Ray, I think I understand all the issues. On a bright note, I had an overdose of guppy fry recently, and tried  to feed them to the adults in this tank and there were no takers! I  had to scoop out the fry and feed them to my voracious male Betta. I  planned to move the female gupps into the 10g soon to prevent this  type of thing, but could postpone since I have the Betta:( I'm really torn about raising these Rams. I'm very excited to have  them, and would very much like to raise them, but on the other hand,  it breaks my heart to take them to even the best LFS. I can see that  the conditions are not even in the ballpark of what I consider  minimally acceptable. And who knows where they go after that, IF they  survive the LFS which is not a sure bet considering how many corpses  I always see in those stores. That leaves me with shipping, which  scares me just about as much. Fish I have received via mail are often  dead - not always but often enough. Who's to say I would beat the  odds there? If I knew I could sell them or even give them away to good people who  would drive to my house, I would be highly motivated to preserve each  baby. Do you think there is any likelihood that people would want to come  pick them up from me? I live in western Massachusetts, if that  matters... Thanks again, for this totally thorough assessment! Lainey http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com On Dec 13, 2009, at 10:28 PM, sevenspringss@... wrote: > Lainey, There are a number of dangers that these fry will need to  > overcome > for them to survive as future tank members. Depending on how many  > you're > looking to raise, your next steps would indicate their rate of  > survival. I > note you have a spare, running, "empty" 10 gallon tank available to  > you if > needed. > > The first danger these fry will encounter in their present  > environment is > that after hatching and before they are free-swimming, they will  > have the > tendency to detach from this rock with the result that an  > undetermined amount > of them will fall to the substrate. The parents will make every  > attempt they > can to replace them near the spawning site, lifting them from the  > gravel > but depending on the courseness of your gravel, an amount of these > yet-to-be-swimming fry will be lost when they fall unretrieveably  > down between the > gravel grains where the parents can't reach them. > > The second danger of course, will be predation by these other fish,  > with > your Rummy Nose Tetras posing the most threat, Here, the parents  > will do > their best in preventing this, chasing the intruders off, but the  > temptation of > free food (fry) will see repeated attempts by your other fish to  > get to > these fry -- depending on how heavily stocked your tank is. As I  > don't know how > many Cory's, Rummy-Nose Tetras and Galaxy Rasboras (true identity -- > Celestial Pearl Danio) you have, I can't know how much of a threat  > they'll > continue to be. Know that this will be an ongoing threat though, as  > the fry > venture further away from the parents. There will always be an  > increasing amount > of fry venturing away from the parents as they continue to grow,  > which may > not find sufficient cover at all times. > > A third danger will be in not being able to get enough food to  > these fry, > and/or in trying to do so, excess food may compromise the water  > value. In > feeding newly-hatched brine shrimp, no doubt the other fish will  > take at least > their fair share of this food, leaving a much smaller quantity of  > it than > you intended for the fry, unless you can find some way of  > concentrated this > food in the fry's area -- perhaps with a turkey baster or some other > instrument. Then too, this food will again attract the other fish  > to this area > when they discover it. > > If your goal is to save as many fry as you can, you'd need to  > transfer them > to the 10 gallon tank after they hatch, or at the very latest,  > right after > they become free-swimming -- via siphoning them from this 37 gallon  > tank > into a small vessel, to then be moved to your 10 gallon tank. If  > you feel you > can't accomplish this, they may be moved with the rock while still  > attached > to it, or -- depending on this rock's immediate vicinity's  > allowances for > performing this -- you may sweep the fry up in a brine shrimp net with > figure-eight motions right after they become free-swimming. > > For best ease of maintenance, this 10 gallon tank optimally should  > have a > bare bottom to facilitate syphoning of waste off when maintaining  > this fry > tank. Too, if transferring the fry to this 10 gallon tank while  > they are > still unhatched eggs or wrigglers (hatched, but not yet free- > swimming fry), a > bare bottom (no gravel) would be essential to prevent the fry from  > falling > into (between grains) the gravel where they couldn't escape. If  > transferring > the fry after they're free-swimming, you may keep the 10 gallon's  > gravel in > place but it will hinder best assurances of keeping the bottom free of > organic debris (dead brine shrimp, etc.). > > Fry should be fed at least twice a day with the newly-hatched brine  > shrimp > you're intending to feed them -- preferably three times a day. For  > maximum > growth, they may be fed up to five times a day, beyond which there  > is little > extra benefit. Additional maintenance goes along with additional  > feedings > to insure best water conditions for the fry. Ray > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] ------------------------------------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the home page.  Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com to receive the digest, which includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com for the No E-Mail option where you will still be able to read messages on the group and post replies. Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com to receive individual e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 45132	From: kuradi8	Date: 12/14/2009
Subject: Re: Blue rams hatching!

Northeast PA? Where are you? I'm next to Mount Pocono. ~Kai --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, bill 1433 <warrenprint@...> wrote: > > Hi Lainey, > > I can only offer you this, if you lived in Northeastern Pennsylvania, you would NOT > have a Blue Ram fry problem! > > I have tried, and failed for almost a year, to do exactly what you have done, as if by "Magic" > > Sitting down here, green not from algae but envy, I can only tell you to, > enjoy, enjoy. If enough fry prosper, it's the perfect excuse to get a larger tank! > > Best wishes and please keep us posted on their up-bringing, > > Bill > > --- On Sun, 12/13/09, Lainey Alexander <lainealex@...> wrote: > > > From: Lainey Alexander <lainealex@...> > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Blue rams hatching! > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Date: Sunday, December 13, 2009, 11:27 PM > > > Yikes. > > Thank you so much, Ray, I think I understand all the issues. > > On a bright note, I had an overdose of guppy fry recently, and tried > to feed them to the adults in this tank and there were no takers! I > had to scoop out the fry and feed them to my voracious male Betta. I > planned to move the female gupps into the 10g soon to prevent this > type of thing, but could postpone since I have the Betta:( > > I'm really torn about raising these Rams. I'm very excited to have > them, and would very much like to raise them, but on the other hand, > it breaks my heart to take them to even the best LFS. I can see that > the conditions are not even in the ballpark of what I consider > minimally acceptable. And who knows where they go after that, IF they > survive the LFS which is not a sure bet considering how many corpses > I always see in those stores. That leaves me with shipping, which > scares me just about as much. Fish I have received via mail are often > dead - not always but often enough. Who's to say I would beat the > odds there? > > If I knew I could sell them or even give them away to good people who > would drive to my house, I would be highly motivated to preserve each > baby. > > Do you think there is any likelihood that people would want to come > pick them up from me? I live in western Massachusetts, if that > matters... > > Thanks again, for this totally thorough assessment! > > Lainey > http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com > > On Dec 13, 2009, at 10:28 PM, sevenspringss@... wrote: > > > Lainey, There are a number of dangers that these fry will need to > > overcome > > for them to survive as future tank members. Depending on how many > > you're > > looking to raise, your next steps would indicate their rate of > > survival. I > > note you have a spare, running, "empty" 10 gallon tank available to > > you if > > needed. > > > > The first danger these fry will encounter in their present > > environment is > > that after hatching and before they are free-swimming, they will > > have the > > tendency to detach from this rock with the result that an > > undetermined amount > > of them will fall to the substrate. The parents will make every > > attempt they > > can to replace them near the spawning site, lifting them from the > > gravel > > but depending on the courseness of your gravel, an amount of these > > yet-to-be-swimming fry will be lost when they fall unretrieveably > > down between the > > gravel grains where the parents can't reach them. > > > > The second danger of course, will be predation by these other fish, > > with > > your Rummy Nose Tetras posing the most threat, Here, the parents > > will do > > their best in preventing this, chasing the intruders off, but the > > temptation of > > free food (fry) will see repeated attempts by your other fish to > > get to > > these fry -- depending on how heavily stocked your tank is. As I > > don't know how > > many Cory's, Rummy-Nose Tetras and Galaxy Rasboras (true identity -- > > Celestial Pearl Danio) you have, I can't know how much of a threat > > they'll > > continue to be. Know that this will be an ongoing threat though, as > > the fry > > venture further away from the parents. There will always be an > > increasing amount > > of fry venturing away from the parents as they continue to grow, > > which may > > not find sufficient cover at all times. > > > > A third danger will be in not being able to get enough food to > > these fry, > > and/or in trying to do so, excess food may compromise the water > > value. In > > feeding newly-hatched brine shrimp, no doubt the other fish will > > take at least > > their fair share of this food, leaving a much smaller quantity of > > it than > > you intended for the fry, unless you can find some way of > > concentrated this > > food in the fry's area -- perhaps with a turkey baster or some other > > instrument. Then too, this food will again attract the other fish > > to this area > > when they discover it. > > > > If your goal is to save as many fry as you can, you'd need to > > transfer them > > to the 10 gallon tank after they hatch, or at the very latest, > > right after > > they become free-swimming -- via siphoning them from this 37 gallon > > tank > > into a small vessel, to then be moved to your 10 gallon tank. If > > you feel you > > can't accomplish this, they may be moved with the rock while still > > attached > > to it, or -- depending on this rock's immediate vicinity's > > allowances for > > performing this -- you may sweep the fry up in a brine shrimp net with > > figure-eight motions right after they become free-swimming. > > > > For best ease of maintenance, this 10 gallon tank optimally should > > have a > > bare bottom to facilitate syphoning of waste off when maintaining > > this fry > > tank. Too, if transferring the fry to this 10 gallon tank while > > they are > > still unhatched eggs or wrigglers (hatched, but not yet free- > > swimming fry), a > > bare bottom (no gravel) would be essential to prevent the fry from > > falling > > into (between grains) the gravel where they couldn't escape. If > > transferring > > the fry after they're free-swimming, you may keep the 10 gallon's > > gravel in > > place but it will hinder best assurances of keeping the bottom free of > > organic debris (dead brine shrimp, etc.). > > > > Fry should be fed at least twice a day with the newly-hatched brine > > shrimp > > you're intending to feed them -- preferably three times a day. For > > maximum > > growth, they may be fed up to five times a day, beyond which there > > is little > > extra benefit. Additional maintenance goes along with additional > > feedings > > to insure best water conditions for the fry. Ray > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > ------------------------------------ > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. > ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> > PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- > <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. > > If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the home page. > > Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com to receive the digest, which includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email > > Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com for the No E-Mail option where you will still be able to read messages on the group and post replies. > > Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com to receive individual e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 45133	From: bill 1433	Date: 12/14/2009
Subject: Re: Blue rams hatching!

Welcome to the Land Of Snow, Sleet and of course, Freezing Rain!   Bill --- On Mon, 12/14/09, kuradi8 <kuradi8@...> wrote: From: kuradi8 <kuradi8@...> Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Blue rams hatching! To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Date: Monday, December 14, 2009, 10:12 AM Northeast PA?  Where are you?  I'm next to Mount Pocono. ~Kai --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, bill 1433 <warrenprint@...> wrote: > > Hi Lainey, >  > I can only offer you this, if you lived in Northeastern Pennsylvania, you would NOT > have a Blue Ram fry problem! >  > I have tried, and failed for almost a year, to do exactly what you have done, as if by "Magic" >  > Sitting down here, green not from algae but envy, I can only tell you to, > enjoy, enjoy.  If enough fry prosper, it's the perfect excuse to get a larger tank! >  > Best wishes and please keep us posted on their up-bringing, >  > Bill > > --- On Sun, 12/13/09, Lainey Alexander <lainealex@...> wrote: > > > From: Lainey Alexander <lainealex@...> > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Blue rams hatching! > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Date: Sunday, December 13, 2009, 11:27 PM > > > Yikes. > > Thank you so much, Ray, I think I understand all the issues. > > On a bright note, I had an overdose of guppy fry recently, and tried  > to feed them to the adults in this tank and there were no takers! I  > had to scoop out the fry and feed them to my voracious male Betta. I  > planned to move the female gupps into the 10g soon to prevent this  > type of thing, but could postpone since I have the Betta:( > > I'm really torn about raising these Rams. I'm very excited to have  > them, and would very much like to raise them, but on the other hand,  > it breaks my heart to take them to even the best LFS. I can see that  > the conditions are not even in the ballpark of what I consider  > minimally acceptable. And who knows where they go after that, IF they  > survive the LFS which is not a sure bet considering how many corpses  > I always see in those stores. That leaves me with shipping, which  > scares me just about as much. Fish I have received via mail are often  > dead - not always but often enough. Who's to say I would beat the  > odds there? > > If I knew I could sell them or even give them away to good people who  > would drive to my house, I would be highly motivated to preserve each  > baby. > > Do you think there is any likelihood that people would want to come  > pick them up from me? I live in western Massachusetts, if that  > matters... > > Thanks again, for this totally thorough assessment! > > Lainey > http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com > > On Dec 13, 2009, at 10:28 PM, sevenspringss@... wrote: > > > Lainey, There are a number of dangers that these fry will need to  > > overcome > > for them to survive as future tank members. Depending on how many  > > you're > > looking to raise, your next steps would indicate their rate of  > > survival. I > > note you have a spare, running, "empty" 10 gallon tank available to  > > you if > > needed. > > > > The first danger these fry will encounter in their present  > > environment is > > that after hatching and before they are free-swimming, they will  > > have the > > tendency to detach from this rock with the result that an  > > undetermined amount > > of them will fall to the substrate. The parents will make every  > > attempt they > > can to replace them near the spawning site, lifting them from the  > > gravel > > but depending on the courseness of your gravel, an amount of these > > yet-to-be-swimming fry will be lost when they fall unretrieveably  > > down between the > > gravel grains where the parents can't reach them. > > > > The second danger of course, will be predation by these other fish,  > > with > > your Rummy Nose Tetras posing the most threat, Here, the parents  > > will do > > their best in preventing this, chasing the intruders off, but the  > > temptation of > > free food (fry) will see repeated attempts by your other fish to  > > get to > > these fry -- depending on how heavily stocked your tank is. As I  > > don't know how > > many Cory's, Rummy-Nose Tetras and Galaxy Rasboras (true identity -- > > Celestial Pearl Danio) you have, I can't know how much of a threat  > > they'll > > continue to be. Know that this will be an ongoing threat though, as  > > the fry > > venture further away from the parents. There will always be an  > > increasing amount > > of fry venturing away from the parents as they continue to grow,  > > which may > > not find sufficient cover at all times. > > > > A third danger will be in not being able to get enough food to  > > these fry, > > and/or in trying to do so, excess food may compromise the water  > > value. In > > feeding newly-hatched brine shrimp, no doubt the other fish will  > > take at least > > their fair share of this food, leaving a much smaller quantity of  > > it than > > you intended for the fry, unless you can find some way of  > > concentrated this > > food in the fry's area -- perhaps with a turkey baster or some other > > instrument. Then too, this food will again attract the other fish  > > to this area > > when they discover it. > > > > If your goal is to save as many fry as you can, you'd need to  > > transfer them > > to the 10 gallon tank after they hatch, or at the very latest,  > > right after > > they become free-swimming -- via siphoning them from this 37 gallon  > > tank > > into a small vessel, to then be moved to your 10 gallon tank. If  > > you feel you > > can't accomplish this, they may be moved with the rock while still  > > attached > > to it, or -- depending on this rock's immediate vicinity's  > > allowances for > > performing this -- you may sweep the fry up in a brine shrimp net with > > figure-eight motions right after they become free-swimming. > > > > For best ease of maintenance, this 10 gallon tank optimally should  > > have a > > bare bottom to facilitate syphoning of waste off when maintaining  > > this fry > > tank. Too, if transferring the fry to this 10 gallon tank while  > > they are > > still unhatched eggs or wrigglers (hatched, but not yet free- > > swimming fry), a > > bare bottom (no gravel) would be essential to prevent the fry from  > > falling > > into (between grains) the gravel where they couldn't escape. If  > > transferring > > the fry after they're free-swimming, you may keep the 10 gallon's  > > gravel in > > place but it will hinder best assurances of keeping the bottom free of > > organic debris (dead brine shrimp, etc.). > > > > Fry should be fed at least twice a day with the newly-hatched brine  > > shrimp > > you're intending to feed them -- preferably three times a day. For  > > maximum > > growth, they may be fed up to five times a day, beyond which there  > > is little > > extra benefit. Additional maintenance goes along with additional  > > feedings > > to insure best water conditions for the fry. Ray > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > ------------------------------------ > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. > ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> > PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- > <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. > > If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the home page.  > > Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com to receive the digest, which includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email > > Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com for the No E-Mail option where you will still be able to read messages on the group and post replies. > > Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com to receive individual e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > >        > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > ------------------------------------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the home page.  Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com to receive the digest, which includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com for the No E-Mail option where you will still be able to read messages on the group and post replies. Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com to receive individual e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 45134	From: young.souls	Date: 12/14/2009
Subject: Re: Blue rams hatching!

Lainey, first of all Gongratulations! What type of filter do you have in the 37G and in the 10G tanks? Such small fry are often sucked into the internal power filters, so you have to think of a HOB or maybe Sponge filter for your 10G in case you decided to move the fry to it. If you decided to leave the fry in the community tank, my guess is that there will be none to survive. I strongly advise you to transfer them to their own tank ASAP. Noura --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, Lainey Alexander <lainealex@...> wrote: > > Yikes. > > Thank you so much, Ray, I think I understand all the issues. > > On a bright note, I had an overdose of guppy fry recently, and tried > to feed them to the adults in this tank and there were no takers! I > had to scoop out the fry and feed them to my voracious male Betta. I > planned to move the female gupps into the 10g soon to prevent this > type of thing, but could postpone since I have the Betta:( > > I'm really torn about raising these Rams. I'm very excited to have > them, and would very much like to raise them, but on the other hand, > it breaks my heart to take them to even the best LFS. I can see that > the conditions are not even in the ballpark of what I consider > minimally acceptable. And who knows where they go after that, IF they > survive the LFS which is not a sure bet considering how many corpses > I always see in those stores. That leaves me with shipping, which > scares me just about as much. Fish I have received via mail are often > dead - not always but often enough. Who's to say I would beat the > odds there? > > If I knew I could sell them or even give them away to good people who > would drive to my house, I would be highly motivated to preserve each > baby. > > Do you think there is any likelihood that people would want to come > pick them up from me? I live in western Massachusetts, if that > matters... > > Thanks again, for this totally thorough assessment! > > Lainey > http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com > > On Dec 13, 2009, at 10:28 PM, sevenspringss@... wrote: > > > Lainey, There are a number of dangers that these fry will need to > > overcome > > for them to survive as future tank members. Depending on how many > > you're > > looking to raise, your next steps would indicate their rate of > > survival. I > > note you have a spare, running, "empty" 10 gallon tank available to > > you if > > needed. > > > > The first danger these fry will encounter in their present > > environment is > > that after hatching and before they are free-swimming, they will > > have the > > tendency to detach from this rock with the result that an > > undetermined amount > > of them will fall to the substrate. The parents will make every > > attempt they > > can to replace them near the spawning site, lifting them from the > > gravel > > but depending on the courseness of your gravel, an amount of these > > yet-to-be-swimming fry will be lost when they fall unretrieveably > > down between the > > gravel grains where the parents can't reach them. > > > > The second danger of course, will be predation by these other fish, > > with > > your Rummy Nose Tetras posing the most threat, Here, the parents > > will do > > their best in preventing this, chasing the intruders off, but the > > temptation of > > free food (fry) will see repeated attempts by your other fish to > > get to > > these fry -- depending on how heavily stocked your tank is. As I > > don't know how > > many Cory's, Rummy-Nose Tetras and Galaxy Rasboras (true identity -- > > Celestial Pearl Danio) you have, I can't know how much of a threat > > they'll > > continue to be. Know that this will be an ongoing threat though, as > > the fry > > venture further away from the parents. There will always be an > > increasing amount > > of fry venturing away from the parents as they continue to grow, > > which may > > not find sufficient cover at all times. > > > > A third danger will be in not being able to get enough food to > > these fry, > > and/or in trying to do so, excess food may compromise the water > > value. In > > feeding newly-hatched brine shrimp, no doubt the other fish will > > take at least > > their fair share of this food, leaving a much smaller quantity of > > it than > > you intended for the fry, unless you can find some way of > > concentrated this > > food in the fry's area -- perhaps with a turkey baster or some other > > instrument. Then too, this food will again attract the other fish > > to this area > > when they discover it. > > > > If your goal is to save as many fry as you can, you'd need to > > transfer them > > to the 10 gallon tank after they hatch, or at the very latest, > > right after > > they become free-swimming -- via siphoning them from this 37 gallon > > tank > > into a small vessel, to then be moved to your 10 gallon tank. If > > you feel you > > can't accomplish this, they may be moved with the rock while still > > attached > > to it, or -- depending on this rock's immediate vicinity's > > allowances for > > performing this -- you may sweep the fry up in a brine shrimp net with > > figure-eight motions right after they become free-swimming. > > > > For best ease of maintenance, this 10 gallon tank optimally should > > have a > > bare bottom to facilitate syphoning of waste off when maintaining > > this fry > > tank. Too, if transferring the fry to this 10 gallon tank while > > they are > > still unhatched eggs or wrigglers (hatched, but not yet free- > > swimming fry), a > > bare bottom (no gravel) would be essential to prevent the fry from > > falling > > into (between grains) the gravel where they couldn't escape. If > > transferring > > the fry after they're free-swimming, you may keep the 10 gallon's > > gravel in > > place but it will hinder best assurances of keeping the bottom free of > > organic debris (dead brine shrimp, etc.). > > > > Fry should be fed at least twice a day with the newly-hatched brine > > shrimp > > you're intending to feed them -- preferably three times a day. For > > maximum > > growth, they may be fed up to five times a day, beyond which there > > is little > > extra benefit. Additional maintenance goes along with additional > > feedings > > to insure best water conditions for the fry. Ray > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 45135	From: sevenspringss@wmconnect.com	Date: 12/14/2009
Subject: Re: Blue rams hatching!

Noura, Thanks for bringing up that point about the filter, and its potential for sucking up the fry if they get too close. A sponge filter is far safer to use with fry, as you said. This was exactly one last point I meant to include, but as I posted my message at 10:30 PM, this is quite late for me to stay up (except on meeting nights) since I'm an early riser getting up between 4 & 5 AM to take care of my hatchery. After including what I did, I just plain forgot this one important point; good catch! Ray</HTML>

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 45136	From: Lainey Alexander	Date: 12/14/2009
Subject: Re: Blue rams hatching!

Ray, This is fantastic information. Thank you so much! I have a couple of questions. Do these clubs/societies specialize in fresh or salt as well? My friend John does salt, and it would be much more fun and easier for me if he would come too, but not sure I could make it happen with only fresh... When they hold auctions, can you explain how the fish are kept? Would they be in bags? How would I "present" the ram babies? BTW I haven't turned on my tank lights yet but so far all I can tell is the rock cavity is empty. They may be gone already. But I could not bring myself to siphon them out of the rock last night in the dark when they were still in there, so I guess this is how it had to go for now. Another point I realized not in their favor is that the gupps like to hover on the water surface, and the rummies never go up there, so that's probably why the gupps made it. Either way, these society meetings sound very promising. Thanks again, Lainey http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com On Dec 14, 2009, at 4:24 AM, sevenspringss@... wrote: > Lainey, Of course, you could just let nature take its course in > your 37 > gallon tank and see how many fry make it. By adding some cover for > them, like > broken clay flowerpot sides laid flat with the arch creating caves > and/or > some dense plants like Java Fern or Najas, some will stand a better > chance of > surviving. You must remember, guppy fry are about 10 times the size of > Dwarf Cichlid fry, so these guys are at much greater risk being the > much > smaller size that they are. > > Shipping fish is not difficult during proper weather conditions > when the > weather is warmer. There are heat packs available also, for colder > weather, > and while you'll need to take a few months to grow these out as > juveniles, > I'd just like to add that it's not adviseable to ship fish even > with heat pack > when the weather here up north remains much below freezing -- > unless you're > shipping by direct air freight from airport to airport for pick up > there. > > Since you're in western Massachusetts, I'd strongly advise you to > look into > attending (perhaps joining) the Pioneer Valley Aquarium Society, > especially > since this may be an outlet for some of your Rams. They meet on the > first > Tuesday of the month (January 5th, 2010 -- next meeting) at 7:00 PM > -- at > the Springfield Science Museum. Further info can be obtained at their > website: < www.pvas.net >. They will be holding a giant fish > auction (no, the fish > are normal size -- LOL) at the Chicopee Elks Hall (Chicopee, Mass.) on > February 14, 2010. Doors open at 9:30 AM (auction starts at 11:00 > AM), so > there's another place to sell some of your fish. Get there early if > you're > bringing fish to sell. While I understand they will not be full > size, many > hobbyists prefer buying a bag of six or so juveniles to raise in > their water. > > Additionally, since you're also not too far from the Hartford, > Connecticut > area, you ought to look into attending the annual NEC (North East > Council -- > of Aquarium Societies) on the weekend of February 26 through 28, > 2010, this > year being held at the Crown Plaza Hotel in Cromwell, CT. They hold > a hugh > fish auction on the third day (Sunday, 2/28/10) of the event. This > would > be another outlet for your fish. Website address: < > www.northeastcouncil.org > >. At least two of the moderators here will be at this event, > including > myself. > > Also, in the Hartford area is the Greater Hartford Aquarium Society (< > www.ghasct.org >), which meets on the 4th Tuesday of the month at > the Lutz > Children's Museum, Manchester, CT. Many of the clubs hold monthly > fish auctions > as part of their meetings, albeit on a smaller scale. Here's yet > another > outlet for your fish, as well as a good source of quality home- > grown fish > being brought in by the other members. I'm sure that once you became > established in these organizations, you would have no trouble at > all with other > hobbyists wanting to come to your place to pick up fish, too. Ray > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 45137	From: Lainey Alexander	Date: 12/14/2009
Subject: Re: Blue rams hatching!

OH PLEASE! I already have six! And last night I heard the dreaded words coming out of my mouth: I really need another 25g! God forbid! Lainey http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com On Dec 14, 2009, at 9:37 AM, bill 1433 wrote: > If enough fry prosper, it's the perfect excuse to get a larger tank! [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 45138	From: Lainey Alexander	Date: 12/14/2009
Subject: Re: Blue rams hatching!

Oh goodness, I forgot about the filter, you're absolutely right, thank you! Lainey http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com On Dec 14, 2009, at 8:14 AM, young.souls wrote: > Lainey, first of all Gongratulations! > What type of filter do you have in the 37G and in the 10G tanks? > Such small fry are often sucked into the internal power filters, so > you have to think of a HOB or maybe Sponge filter for your 10G in > case you decided to move the fry to it. > > If you decided to leave the fry in the community tank, my guess is > that there will be none to survive. I strongly advise you to > transfer them to their own tank ASAP. > > Noura > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, Lainey Alexander > <lainealex@...> wrote: > > > > Yikes. > > > > Thank you so much, Ray, I think I understand all the issues. > > > > On a bright note, I had an overdose of guppy fry recently, and tried > > to feed them to the adults in this tank and there were no takers! I > > had to scoop out the fry and feed them to my voracious male Betta. I > > planned to move the female gupps into the 10g soon to prevent this > > type of thing, but could postpone since I have the Betta:( > > > > I'm really torn about raising these Rams. I'm very excited to have > > them, and would very much like to raise them, but on the other hand, > > it breaks my heart to take them to even the best LFS. I can see that > > the conditions are not even in the ballpark of what I consider > > minimally acceptable. And who knows where they go after that, IF > they > > survive the LFS which is not a sure bet considering how many corpses > > I always see in those stores. That leaves me with shipping, which > > scares me just about as much. Fish I have received via mail are > often > > dead - not always but often enough. Who's to say I would beat the > > odds there? > > > > If I knew I could sell them or even give them away to good people > who > > would drive to my house, I would be highly motivated to preserve > each > > baby. > > > > Do you think there is any likelihood that people would want to come > > pick them up from me? I live in western Massachusetts, if that > > matters... > > > > Thanks again, for this totally thorough assessment! > > > > Lainey > > http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com > > > > On Dec 13, 2009, at 10:28 PM, sevenspringss@... wrote: > > > > > Lainey, There are a number of dangers that these fry will need to > > > overcome > > > for them to survive as future tank members. Depending on how many > > > you're > > > looking to raise, your next steps would indicate their rate of > > > survival. I > > > note you have a spare, running, "empty" 10 gallon tank > available to > > > you if > > > needed. > > > > > > The first danger these fry will encounter in their present > > > environment is > > > that after hatching and before they are free-swimming, they will > > > have the > > > tendency to detach from this rock with the result that an > > > undetermined amount > > > of them will fall to the substrate. The parents will make every > > > attempt they > > > can to replace them near the spawning site, lifting them from the > > > gravel > > > but depending on the courseness of your gravel, an amount of these > > > yet-to-be-swimming fry will be lost when they fall unretrieveably > > > down between the > > > gravel grains where the parents can't reach them. > > > > > > The second danger of course, will be predation by these other > fish, > > > with > > > your Rummy Nose Tetras posing the most threat, Here, the parents > > > will do > > > their best in preventing this, chasing the intruders off, but the > > > temptation of > > > free food (fry) will see repeated attempts by your other fish to > > > get to > > > these fry -- depending on how heavily stocked your tank is. As I > > > don't know how > > > many Cory's, Rummy-Nose Tetras and Galaxy Rasboras (true > identity -- > > > Celestial Pearl Danio) you have, I can't know how much of a threat > > > they'll > > > continue to be. Know that this will be an ongoing threat > though, as > > > the fry > > > venture further away from the parents. There will always be an > > > increasing amount > > > of fry venturing away from the parents as they continue to grow, > > > which may > > > not find sufficient cover at all times. > > > > > > A third danger will be in not being able to get enough food to > > > these fry, > > > and/or in trying to do so, excess food may compromise the water > > > value. In > > > feeding newly-hatched brine shrimp, no doubt the other fish will > > > take at least > > > their fair share of this food, leaving a much smaller quantity of > > > it than > > > you intended for the fry, unless you can find some way of > > > concentrated this > > > food in the fry's area -- perhaps with a turkey baster or some > other > > > instrument. Then too, this food will again attract the other fish > > > to this area > > > when they discover it. > > > > > > If your goal is to save as many fry as you can, you'd need to > > > transfer them > > > to the 10 gallon tank after they hatch, or at the very latest, > > > right after > > > they become free-swimming -- via siphoning them from this 37 > gallon > > > tank > > > into a small vessel, to then be moved to your 10 gallon tank. If > > > you feel you > > > can't accomplish this, they may be moved with the rock while still > > > attached > > > to it, or -- depending on this rock's immediate vicinity's > > > allowances for > > > performing this -- you may sweep the fry up in a brine shrimp > net with > > > figure-eight motions right after they become free-swimming. > > > > > > For best ease of maintenance, this 10 gallon tank optimally should > > > have a > > > bare bottom to facilitate syphoning of waste off when maintaining > > > this fry > > > tank. Too, if transferring the fry to this 10 gallon tank while > > > they are > > > still unhatched eggs or wrigglers (hatched, but not yet free- > > > swimming fry), a > > > bare bottom (no gravel) would be essential to prevent the fry from > > > falling > > > into (between grains) the gravel where they couldn't escape. If > > > transferring > > > the fry after they're free-swimming, you may keep the 10 gallon's > > > gravel in > > > place but it will hinder best assurances of keeping the bottom > free of > > > organic debris (dead brine shrimp, etc.). > > > > > > Fry should be fed at least twice a day with the newly-hatched > brine > > > shrimp > > > you're intending to feed them -- preferably three times a day. For > > > maximum > > > growth, they may be fed up to five times a day, beyond which there > > > is little > > > extra benefit. Additional maintenance goes along with additional > > > feedings > > > to insure best water conditions for the fry. Ray > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > > > > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 45139	From: young.souls	Date: 12/14/2009
Subject: Re: Blue rams hatching!

I'm the thankful one here. After a year of learning from you guys, I'm glad I became able of giving some advise to others myself. lol. Noura --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, sevenspringss@... wrote: > > > > Noura, Thanks for bringing up that point about the filter, and its > potential for sucking up the fry if they get too close. A sponge filter is far > safer to use with fry, as you said. This was exactly one last point I meant to > include, but as I posted my message at 10:30 PM, this is quite late for me > to stay up (except on meeting nights) since I'm an early riser getting up > between 4 & 5 AM to take care of my hatchery. After including what I did, I > just plain forgot this one important point; good catch! Ray</HTML> >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 45140	From: bill 1433	Date: 12/14/2009
Subject: Re: Blue rams hatching!

Lainey,   You've got great fish.  You have a "Magic Touch" with them, I must be honest with you, I can't think of a better reason to get another tank BUT ------a 25?   Let's make this easier on your nerves.  First, forget the tank altogether for a moment, now look around the house, and basement carefully, current furniture, size of rooms and most important, the distance to your bath or kitchen water faucets!  Now once you have all of that information gathered sit down calmly and decided what is the largest tank I can fit in here? Now go for it!  Your on the way to being the breeder of a very exciting and desirable fish. Selling them?  Don't worry about it!  If you do as Ray just suggested and the word gets out, you won't have to find them, they'll find you!  Trust me!   as you can tell, I love Rams,   Bill --- On Mon, 12/14/09, Lainey Alexander <lainealex@...> wrote: From: Lainey Alexander <lainealex@...> Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Blue rams hatching! To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Date: Monday, December 14, 2009, 11:14 AM OH PLEASE! I already have six! And last night I heard the dreaded words coming out of my mouth: I  really need another 25g! God forbid! Lainey http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com On Dec 14, 2009, at 9:37 AM, bill 1433 wrote: >  If enough fry prosper, it's the perfect excuse to get a larger tank! [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] ------------------------------------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the home page.  Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com to receive the digest, which includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com for the No E-Mail option where you will still be able to read messages on the group and post replies. Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com to receive individual e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 45141	From: Lainey Alexander	Date: 12/14/2009
Subject: Ram fry update

Well, I checked at 2AM and they were still in the rock cavity, wriggling, but seemingly attached to the rock in some way, then by nine AM they were gone. Now I am sitting here for half an hour with a flashlight and I can't find them anywhere. I am assuming they were eaten, but what I find perplexing is that I would think there would be a few stragglers? I will check my filter and I'm going to keep looking. I have about forty plants in that tank, so it's definitely not easy to see what's going on. I would lose the guppy fry for a couple of days, and they are easy to spot. If this pair breeds again, please tell me at what point I should have intervened? Should I have siphoned out the egg/fry when they were still stuck to the rock? I was obviously asleep when they became free- swimming. I suppose ideally I should have stayed up all night and then siphoned them out when they first began swimming? Thanks for all the help and support:) Lainey http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 45142	From: sevenspringss@wmconnect.com	Date: 12/14/2009
Subject: Re: Blue rams hatching!

Hi Lainey, Unfortunately for your friend John, most clubs here in the northeast are pretty much freshwater clubs for the most part, except for NEC member-club, Brooklyn Aquarium Society. I know thats way too far for you to come just for a meeting, though. Besides, while such a club may fit right in with your friend's interests some months, you may feel left out, as they alternate monthly meeting with having a freshwater themed night one month and a saltwater themed night the next month. I don't believe there is that much interest in marine aquariums within the New England clubs. Yes, when they hold these fish auctions, almost all fish would be presented in plastic fish bags, just as you'd buy them from the store. Double bags are used to ensure against leakage, and one bag is inverted into the other -- again, to help ensure against leakage. Occasionally, a very large fish may be submitted in a 5 gallon bucket (w/lid), that goes with the purchase. If you were shipping fish, you would also double-bag them, inverting one into the other. Such fish would arrive in better shape, and be more assured of arriving alive if you could arrange for filling these bags with oxygen, by your local fish store -- if they'd be so accomodating to you -- when shipping. Oxygen is not needed for bagging up fish for the one day that they're at an auction. If oxygen can't be obtained for shipping, just make sure to pack the fish lightly, giving them a bit more room per bag (or use larger bags). These bags, whether filled with air or O2, should ideally be filled 1/3 with water and 2/3 with either air or O2. Double rubber bands are a good idea too, in case one decides to break. For smaller fish, be sure to tie (or tape) the bottom corners of the bags when bagging up smaller fish. this will prevent them from getting caught in these corners and possibly dying as a result. Action fish bags also need to be marked with the number of fish contained and the species -- and quite often, depending upon the club, at least your initials. Most clubs have a set of rules available just for fish auctions. Since you don't see any eggs or fry on the rock this morning, the parents may have eaten them, or they may have moved them. Their actions (and any new location they're residing in) will tell you if they're still guarding their fry. From what you're saying, you apparently left the fish completely in the dark last night -- and I presume every night, as a matter of regular routine. Perhaps I should have included this following advise, but just didn't think of it as part of what was needed in attending to them, as it's just automatic for me. When breeding most Cichlids. especially substrate spawners, it's best to leave a small night light on, which would tend to prevent this sudden light - dark - light stimuli difference which may otherwise cause new pairs to temporarily lose ("forget") attention in the fact that they are tending fry, when complete darkness interupts this portion of this breeding cycle. The sudden new awareness the next day with renewed daylight may occasionally result in one or both of these new breeders not recognizing these eggs as there own -- only because the visual stimulation of seeing them has been removed for a good period of hours. I recommend a small night-light for any aquarium anyway, as it will prevent the possibility of fish jumping during the night. Even if the aquarium may be well-covered, there's still the possibility that fish may injure themselves when jumping -- and they often will when bumping into driftwood or having another fish bumping into them. Some of the more expensive aquarium hoods have "moon- lights" built into them for this purpose, but any small room light (even if it's a 7 watt refrigerator bulb) will ensure that the fish won't "go bump in the night." If you were to syphon the fry out though, that would have been the best time to do it -- just before lights out. I would add, if you planned to just remove the rock (with eggs) in the future, it's much less stressful for the fish if you replace that rock immediately with one very similar one. They will then not realize that this first rock (with eggs) was removed -- especially if you do this just before supplying them with only their night light at that time of the evening. Most Tetras inhabit the lower third of the aquarium, whereas Danios inhabit from the upper third, up to just under the surface, for the most part. These Celestial Pearl Danios are small enough for the Ram parents to easily control, anyhow -- but the larger Rummy-Nose pose more of a danger to the fry, especially if there's a larger number of these Tetras in your school. Ray </HTML>

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 45143	From: sevenspringss@wmconnect.com	Date: 12/14/2009
Subject: Re: Blue rams hatching!

ONLY SIX, Lainey? How have you escaped contracting MTS (Multi-Tank-Syndrome) for this long? < g >. You're way behind in your "necessary" allotment of tanks (LOL). I wouldn't want to tell you how may I have. Many of us caught up fully by this hobby find that no matter how many tanks we have, we NEVER have enough! Ray</HTML>

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 45144	From: Lainey Alexander	Date: 12/14/2009
Subject: Re: Blue rams hatching!

I thought six qualified me for MTS:( Lainey http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com On Dec 14, 2009, at 12:50 PM, sevenspringss@... wrote: > > > ONLY SIX, Lainey? How have you escaped contracting MTS > (Multi-Tank-Syndrome) for this long? < g >. You're way behind in > your "necessary" allotment of > tanks (LOL). I wouldn't want to tell you how may I have. Many of us > caught up fully by this hobby find that no matter how many tanks we > have, we > NEVER have enough! Ray</HTML> > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 45145	From: sevenspringss@wmconnect.com	Date: 12/14/2009
Subject: Re: Ram fry update

Lainey, To give you some idea of what to expect -- The fry will hatch after about three days of the eggs first being laid. Then, they will remain attached to this rock (unless moved to another surface by the parents) for about another 3 1/2 to 4 days, after which time thy will then become free-swimming. I don't know when your fish first spawned, but from reading your earlier posts, it looks like you were saying you couldn't distinguish the spawn as still being in the egg state or whether they were just starting to hatch. If they were just hatching yesterday, they will not have been free-swimming yet. You can remove them at any stage, but you need to keep in mind that if your pair has the tendency to eat them, the longer you allow them with the parents the better the chances that they'll be eaten. As I mentioned though, your pair may not actually be egg eaters otherwise, but they may have been induced into this action by the interupted lighting sequence. If moving them in the egg state, a similar spawning surface should be substituted to ease the interuption of the spawning cycle -- removal of the fry in this case constitutes interuption of the breeding cycle (note, in this case, I'm not at all referring to the lighting). The replacement rock will promote a much slower (more gradual) cessation of the breeding cycle, which is what's preferred. Breeding cycle, in this case, includes the stages of spawning, guarding and cleaning of the eggs and then of the wrigglers, and finally guarding and rearing of the free-swimming fry. Abrupt interuption of any of these stages, with the sudden stimulus that makes the pair acutely aware that the cycle has not been completed (fry no longer available for rearing), is to be avoided as it's a major cause dissension between the pair in an otherwise harmonious pair bond. I would like to point out, that if you're deciding to remove these fry as wrigglers, they will be increasingly-less adhesive to their spawning site as the days pass. Early on the third day after hatching, they will be much more easily removed (syphoned) from their rock surface than on the first day -- although you may not want to wait that long. If you mis-count, and find the fry free-swimming, they can still be syphoned (or netted, as I described), as they'll be in a fairly tight "school." If starting a syphon with your mouth, this should never be started in the vicinity of the fry but done so in an outlying area. If you're not totally familiar with syphoning, and it's possible end result of giving you a mouthful, the syphon is best started by completely submersing the hose and holding a thumb over the end of the hose that you pull over the top frame of the tank to the container that's accepting the water. As Cichlids cannot count (< g >), to make this transition of fry from the tank so much more easier for the parents, it's often helpful to leave the pair with a small amount (12 -- 18, or so) of fry for them to still tend to. If they get eaten, so be it, you'll have the majority to raise in your 10 gallon -- but the point is they will not miss the larger number of fry they originally had as their attention will be focused on protecting the remaining fry. Another stress-reducing procedure you can take. Oddly enough, when replacing the egg-laiden rock with another, they will continue fanning this new rock, not noticing any visual stimulus that the eggs are missing, when this is done in the evening before dimming the lights. The gradual stimulus of missing eggs the next morning will be just that -- gradual -- as the natural daylight gradually brightens the room; this defuses any possible tensions between the pair, as it only "dawns" on the parents very slowly that their breeding cycle has now come to a gradual end. Ray </HTML>

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 45146	From: pam andress	Date: 12/14/2009
Subject: Re: Blue rams hatching!

Only to a point. You have to have extras waiting just in case you need another one at the last moment. OR A total fish room with lots of tanks in that. OR ;) I have 9 set up at the moment. I always say at the moment, because that can change daily. lol If I could afford the electricty, I would have lots more!!! I want a 125 and a few more 55's wouldn't be bad lol, and I have 7 not up at the moment. Pam I thought six qualified me for MTS:( Lainey ONLY SIX, Lainey? How have you escaped contracting MTS (Multi-Tank-Syndrome) for this long? < g >. You're way behind in your "necessary" allotment of tanks (LOL). I wouldn't want to tell you how may I have. Many of us caught up fully by this hobby find that no matter how many tanks we have, we NEVER have enough! Ray [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 45147	From: sevenspringss@wmconnect.com	Date: 12/14/2009
Subject: Re: Blue rams hatching!

Close enough, Lainey -- you certainly have beginnings of MTS -- now, you need to catch up with the rest of us <g>. Ray</HTML>

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 45148	From: Lainey Alexander	Date: 12/14/2009
Subject: Re: Blue rams hatching!

That's really scary to hear. I feel like I'm sliding down the slippery slope. I already have over a hundred finches, which during breeding, about nine months of the year, takes up thirty-five hours a week. Lainey http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com On Dec 14, 2009, at 1:34 PM, pam andress wrote: > > Only to a point. You have to have extras waiting just in case you > need another one at the last moment. OR A total fish room with lots > of tanks in that. OR ;) > > I have 9 set up at the moment. I always say at the moment, because > that can change daily. lol > > If I could afford the electricty, I would have lots more!!! I want > a 125 and a few more 55's wouldn't be bad lol, and I have 7 not up > at the moment. > > Pam > > > I thought six qualified me for MTS:( > > Lainey > > ONLY SIX, Lainey? How have you escaped contracting MTS > (Multi-Tank-Syndrome) for this long? < g >. You're way behind in > your "necessary" allotment of > tanks (LOL). I wouldn't want to tell you how may I have. Many of us > caught up fully by this hobby find that no matter how many tanks we > have, we > > NEVER have enough! Ray > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 45149	From: kuradi8	Date: 12/14/2009
Subject: Re: Blue rams hatching!

Ugh... I really don't mind snow but this sloppy slushy ice is awful! Ya think if we placed orders for better weather with Snedecker or Clarkie, we'd actually get it??? ~Kai > bill 1433 wrote: > > Welcome to the Land Of Snow, Sleet and of course, Freezing Rain! > > Bill > > > > Kai wrote: > > > Northeast PA? Where are you? I'm next to Mount Pocono. > ~Kai > > > > > bill 1433 wrote: > > > > Hi Lainey, > > > > I can only offer you this, if you lived in Northeastern Pennsylvania, you would NOT > > have a Blue Ram fry problem! > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 45150	From: Lainey Alexander	Date: 12/14/2009
Subject: Re: Blue rams hatching!

Thanks, Ray - I have a few more questions: I do have moon lights on the 37g plus a standup lamp with 75w incandescent nearby that I use for all the tanks and the finches as a night light. Still, the cave cavity was very dark. Do you think the light I describe would be enough? I'm not loving the option of either moving out the rock (in the future if they ever spawn again) or siphoning the wrigglers. Do you think the parents will get better at not eating the babies in the future, or if they did it once, they'll probably always do it? I realize that the seven rummies may have eaten the fry, but since I can't find even one, and the parents are acting like nothing is going on, and there are no fry in the filter, I think you're probably right it was the parents. With my finches, they get better at breeding as time goes by, so wondering if the rams might do this too? Otherwise, I would probably want to set up the rams in their own tank - ugh? Finally, if I went to one of these local auctions, do you think anyone would be interested in some blue grass guppy juveniles that I bred from stock I bought through Frank Schwab of guppyalternative? Thank you again, Lainey http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com On Dec 14, 2009, at 12:44 PM, sevenspringss@... wrote: > > > Hi Lainey, Unfortunately for your friend John, most clubs here in the > northeast are pretty much freshwater clubs for the most part, > except for NEC > member-club, Brooklyn Aquarium Society. I know thats way too far > for you to > come just for a meeting, though. Besides, while such a club may fit > right in > with your friend's interests some months, you may feel left out, as > they > alternate monthly meeting with having a freshwater themed night one > month and a > saltwater themed night the next month. I don't believe there is > that much > interest in marine aquariums within the New England clubs. > > Yes, when they hold these fish auctions, almost all fish would be > presented > in plastic fish bags, just as you'd buy them from the store. Double > bags > are used to ensure against leakage, and one bag is inverted into > the other -- > again, to help ensure against leakage. Occasionally, a very large > fish may > be submitted in a 5 gallon bucket (w/lid), that goes with the > purchase. If > you were shipping fish, you would also double-bag them, inverting > one into > the other. Such fish would arrive in better shape, and be more > assured of > arriving alive if you could arrange for filling these bags with > oxygen, by > your local fish store -- if they'd be so accomodating to you -- > when shipping. > Oxygen is not needed for bagging up fish for the one day that > they're at > an auction. If oxygen can't be obtained for shipping, just make > sure to pack > the fish lightly, giving them a bit more room per bag (or use > larger bags). > These bags, whether filled with air or O2, should ideally be filled > 1/3 > with water and 2/3 with either air or O2. Double rubber bands are a > good idea > too, in case one decides to break. For smaller fish, be sure to tie > (or > tape) the bottom corners of the bags when bagging up smaller fish. > this will > prevent them from getting caught in these corners and possibly > dying as a > result. Action fish bags also need to be marked with the number of > fish > contained and the species -- and quite often, depending upon the > club, at least > your initials. Most clubs have a set of rules available just for fish > auctions. > > Since you don't see any eggs or fry on the rock this morning, the > parents > may have eaten them, or they may have moved them. Their actions > (and any new > location they're residing in) will tell you if they're still > guarding their > fry. From what you're saying, you apparently left the fish > completely in > the dark last night -- and I presume every night, as a matter of > regular > routine. Perhaps I should have included this following advise, but > just didn't > think of it as part of what was needed in attending to them, as > it's just > automatic for me. When breeding most Cichlids. especially substrate > spawners, > it's best to leave a small night light on, which would tend to > prevent this > sudden light - dark - light stimuli difference which may otherwise > cause > new pairs to temporarily lose ("forget") attention in the fact that > they are > tending fry, when complete darkness interupts this portion of this > breeding > cycle. The sudden new awareness the next day with renewed daylight may > occasionally result in one or both of these new breeders not > recognizing these > eggs as there own -- only because the visual stimulation of seeing > them has > been removed for a good period of hours. I recommend a small night- > light for > any aquarium anyway, as it will prevent the possibility of fish > jumping > during the night. Even if the aquarium may be well-covered, there's > still the > possibility that fish may injure themselves when jumping -- and > they often > will when bumping into driftwood or having another fish bumping > into them. > Some of the more expensive aquarium hoods have "moon- lights" built > into them > for this purpose, but any small room light (even if it's a 7 watt > refrigerator bulb) will ensure that the fish won't "go bump in the > night." > > If you were to syphon the fry out though, that would have been the > best > time to do it -- just before lights out. I would add, if you > planned to just > remove the rock (with eggs) in the future, it's much less stressful > for the > fish if you replace that rock immediately with one very similar > one. They > will then not realize that this first rock (with eggs) was removed -- > especially if you do this just before supplying them with only > their night light at > that time of the evening. > > Most Tetras inhabit the lower third of the aquarium, whereas Danios > inhabit > from the upper third, up to just under the surface, for the most part. > These Celestial Pearl Danios are small enough for the Ram parents > to easily > control, anyhow -- but the larger Rummy-Nose pose more of a danger > to the fry, > especially if there's a larger number of these Tetras in your > school. Ray > > </HTML> > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 45151	From: bill 1433	Date: 12/14/2009
Subject: Re: Blue rams hatching!

Well----------------------------------------that's a start!   Now what size are the tanks?   Bill --- On Mon, 12/14/09, Lainey Alexander <lainealex@...> wrote: From: Lainey Alexander <lainealex@...> Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Blue rams hatching! To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Date: Monday, December 14, 2009, 1:04 PM I thought six qualified me for MTS:( Lainey http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com On Dec 14, 2009, at 12:50 PM, sevenspringss@... wrote: > > > ONLY SIX, Lainey? How have you escaped contracting MTS > (Multi-Tank-Syndrome) for this long? < g >. You're way behind in  > your "necessary" allotment of > tanks (LOL). I wouldn't want to tell you how may I have. Many of us > caught up fully by this hobby find that no matter how many tanks we  > have, we > NEVER have enough! Ray</HTML> > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] ------------------------------------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the home page.  Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com to receive the digest, which includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com for the No E-Mail option where you will still be able to read messages on the group and post replies. Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com to receive individual e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 45152	From: Lainey Alexander	Date: 12/14/2009
Subject: Re: Ram fry update

My ram pair first laid their eggs on a sword plant leaf, then about two days later they moved them all to the rock cave. Then about three to four days later there was all the violent wriggling I described yesterday, and then by 2am I could see definite fry starting to swim a bit. So I think they went all the way to free swimming by 2 and then by this morning, had been eaten. But in retrospect, I think I would have done the same thing again. I did not know whether the parents or rummies would eat them and my plan as of last night was to remove the babies with a net as soon as I could see them swimming freely out in the tank. I'm just not sure what I will do if there's a next time... Lainey http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com On Dec 14, 2009, at 1:46 PM, sevenspringss@... wrote: > > > Lainey, To give you some idea of what to expect -- The fry will > hatch after > about three days of the eggs first being laid. Then, they will remain > attached to this rock (unless moved to another surface by the > parents) for about > another 3 1/2 to 4 days, after which time thy will then become > free-swimming. I don't know when your fish first spawned, but from > reading your earlier > posts, it looks like you were saying you couldn't distinguish the > spawn as > still being in the egg state or whether they were just starting to > hatch. > If they were just hatching yesterday, they will not have been free- > swimming > yet. You can remove them at any stage, but you need to keep in mind > that if > your pair has the tendency to eat them, the longer you allow them > with the > parents the better the chances that they'll be eaten. As I > mentioned though, > your pair may not actually be egg eaters otherwise, but they may > have been > induced into this action by the interupted lighting sequence. > > If moving them in the egg state, a similar spawning surface should be > substituted to ease the interuption of the spawning cycle -- > removal of the fry > in this case constitutes interuption of the breeding cycle (note, > in this > case, I'm not at all referring to the lighting). The replacement > rock will > promote a much slower (more gradual) cessation of the breeding > cycle, which is > what's preferred. Breeding cycle, in this case, includes the stages of > spawning, guarding and cleaning of the eggs and then of the > wrigglers, and > finally guarding and rearing of the free-swimming fry. Abrupt > interuption of any > of these stages, with the sudden stimulus that makes the pair > acutely aware > that the cycle has not been completed (fry no longer available for > rearing), is to be avoided as it's a major cause dissension between > the pair in an > otherwise harmonious pair bond. > > I would like to point out, that if you're deciding to remove these > fry as > wrigglers, they will be increasingly-less adhesive to their > spawning site as > the days pass. Early on the third day after hatching, they will be > much > more easily removed (syphoned) from their rock surface than on the > first day -- > although you may not want to wait that long. If you mis-count, and > find > the fry free-swimming, they can still be syphoned (or netted, as I > described), > as they'll be in a fairly tight "school." If starting a syphon with > your > mouth, this should never be started in the vicinity of the fry but > done so in > an outlying area. If you're not totally familiar with syphoning, > and it's > possible end result of giving you a mouthful, the syphon is best > started by > completely submersing the hose and holding a thumb over the end of > the hose > that you pull over the top frame of the tank to the container that's > accepting the water. > > As Cichlids cannot count (< g >), to make this transition of fry > from the > tank so much more easier for the parents, it's often helpful to > leave the > pair with a small amount (12 -- 18, or so) of fry for them to still > tend to. > If they get eaten, so be it, you'll have the majority to raise in > your 10 > gallon -- but the point is they will not miss the larger number of > fry they > originally had as their attention will be focused on protecting the > remaining > fry. Another stress-reducing procedure you can take. Oddly enough, > when > replacing the egg-laiden rock with another, they will continue > fanning this new > rock, not noticing any visual stimulus that the eggs are missing, > when this > is done in the evening before dimming the lights. The gradual > stimulus of > missing eggs the next morning will be just that -- gradual -- as > the natural > daylight gradually brightens the room; this defuses any possible > tensions > between the pair, as it only "dawns" on the parents very slowly > that their > breeding cycle has now come to a gradual end. Ray </HTML> > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 45153	From: Lainey Alexander	Date: 12/14/2009
Subject: Re: Blue rams hatching!

OK, you won't be very impressed, at all, but: 37, 25 cube, 20, 10 (fry and hospital etc), 5 (single betta), 2.5 (five red cherry shrimp). The challenge is that they're all fully planted, which is something I have almost no experience with - and the learning curve is a bit steep. Also, John just bought a 40 breeder for a seagrass tank and now I seem to be hearing about a 20g for something or other and a 10g for emergencies...and so it begins. Those are being set up in a cottage I can see out my window, and apparently, my daily help will be needed there. Lainey http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com On Dec 14, 2009, at 2:30 PM, bill 1433 wrote: > Well----------------------------------------that's a start! > > Now what size are the tanks? > > Bill > > --- On Mon, 12/14/09, Lainey Alexander <lainealex@...> > wrote: > > From: Lainey Alexander <lainealex@...> > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Blue rams hatching! > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Date: Monday, December 14, 2009, 1:04 PM > > I thought six qualified me for MTS:( > > Lainey > http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com > > On Dec 14, 2009, at 12:50 PM, sevenspringss@... wrote: > > > > > > > ONLY SIX, Lainey? How have you escaped contracting MTS > > (Multi-Tank-Syndrome) for this long? < g >. You're way behind in > > your "necessary" allotment of > > tanks (LOL). I wouldn't want to tell you how may I have. Many of us > > caught up fully by this hobby find that no matter how many tanks we > > have, we > > NEVER have enough! Ray</HTML> > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > ------------------------------------ > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, > Thank You. > ���`�.��.><((((�>.���`�.��.���`�.�><((((�> �.���`�.�. , .���`�..>< > ((((�> > PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT > important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original > message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old > subject)" <- > <�((((><.���`�.��.���`�.�<�((((><�.���`�.�. , .���`�..<�((((><� > ��`�.��. > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. > > If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of > unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by clicking on > "Edit My Membership" on the home page. > > Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com to receive the digest, > which includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email > > Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com for the No E-Mail > option where you will still be able to read messages on the group > and post replies. > > Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com to receive individual e- > mails.Yahoo! Groups Links > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 45154	From: bill 1433	Date: 12/14/2009
Subject: Re: Blue rams hatching!

Hi Kai!   I went full circle and now use or listen and watch 28 WBRE!   Now it's not always good news weather-wise, but at least it's the truth. Started about a month ago when our "Joe" gave a report of 1 to 3" in our area, with a temp of about 35 to 42------no biggie, right?  NOT!   We got 4 to 6 and then capped it off toward the early morning hours with a nice dose of sleet and freezing rain, my favorite!  I won't even go out for the mail in that stuff! Took a bad fall in that stuff last January and sometime my left arm still gives me "fits" from it.  I think alot of this is my own fault, last year got a new very heavy duty snow blower (my luck) in case you don't know it--------------------------you can not use a snow blower for sleet and freezing rain!   If it can go wrong, it will happen to Bill------trust me!   Bill --- On Mon, 12/14/09, kuradi8 <kuradi8@...> wrote: From: kuradi8 <kuradi8@...> Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Blue rams hatching! To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Date: Monday, December 14, 2009, 2:16 PM Ugh...  I really don't mind snow but this sloppy slushy ice is awful! Ya think if we placed orders for better weather with Snedecker or Clarkie, we'd actually get it??? ~Kai > bill 1433 wrote: > > Welcome to the Land Of Snow, Sleet and of course, Freezing Rain! >  > Bill > > > > Kai wrote: > > > Northeast PA?  Where are you?  I'm next to Mount Pocono. > ~Kai > > > > > bill 1433 wrote: > > > > Hi Lainey, > >  > > I can only offer you this, if you lived in Northeastern Pennsylvania, you would NOT > > have a Blue Ram fry problem! > >  ------------------------------------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the home page.  Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com to receive the digest, which includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com for the No E-Mail option where you will still be able to read messages on the group and post replies. Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com to receive individual e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 45155	From: bill 1433	Date: 12/14/2009
Subject: Re: Blue rams hatching!

"Otherwise, I would probably want to set up the rams in their own tank  - ugh?"   No, no Lainey you've got the right idea---------------now should the parents eat the fry?  Well, as Ray mentioned, you could remove them but give them a spawn or two to try. Anyway, its much easier moving Mom And Dad that the kids.   Bill --- On Mon, 12/14/09, Lainey Alexander <lainealex@...> wrote: From: Lainey Alexander <lainealex@...> Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Blue rams hatching! To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Date: Monday, December 14, 2009, 2:25 PM Thanks, Ray - I have a few more questions: I do have moon lights on the 37g plus a standup lamp with 75w  incandescent nearby that I use for all the tanks and the finches as a  night light. Still, the cave cavity was very dark. Do you think the  light I describe would be enough? I'm not loving the option of either moving out the rock (in the  future if they ever spawn again) or siphoning the wrigglers. Do you  think the parents will get better at not eating the babies in the  future, or if they did it once, they'll probably always do it? I  realize that the seven rummies may have eaten the fry, but since I  can't find even one, and the parents are acting like nothing is going  on, and there are no fry in the filter, I think you're probably right  it was the parents. With my finches, they get better at breeding as  time goes by, so wondering if the rams might do this too? Otherwise, I would probably want to set up the rams in their own tank  - ugh? Finally, if I went to one of these local auctions, do you think  anyone would be interested in some blue grass guppy juveniles that I  bred from stock I bought through Frank Schwab of guppyalternative? Thank you again, Lainey http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com On Dec 14, 2009, at 12:44 PM, sevenspringss@... wrote: > > > Hi Lainey, Unfortunately for your friend John, most clubs here in the > northeast are pretty much freshwater clubs for the most part,  > except for NEC > member-club, Brooklyn Aquarium Society. I know thats way too far  > for you to > come just for a meeting, though. Besides, while such a club may fit  > right in > with your friend's interests some months, you may feel left out, as  > they > alternate monthly meeting with having a freshwater themed night one  > month and a > saltwater themed night the next month. I don't believe there is  > that much > interest in marine aquariums within the New England clubs. > > Yes, when they hold these fish auctions, almost all fish would be  > presented > in plastic fish bags, just as you'd buy them from the store. Double  > bags > are used to ensure against leakage, and one bag is inverted into  > the other -- > again, to help ensure against leakage. Occasionally, a very large  > fish may > be submitted in a 5 gallon bucket (w/lid), that goes with the  > purchase. If > you were shipping fish, you would also double-bag them, inverting  > one into > the other. Such fish would arrive in better shape, and be more  > assured of > arriving alive if you could arrange for filling these bags with  > oxygen, by > your local fish store -- if they'd be so accomodating to you --  > when shipping. > Oxygen is not needed for bagging up fish for the one day that  > they're at > an auction. If oxygen can't be obtained for shipping, just make  > sure to pack > the fish lightly, giving them a bit more room per bag (or use  > larger bags). > These bags, whether filled with air or O2, should ideally be filled  > 1/3 > with water and 2/3 with either air or O2. Double rubber bands are a  > good idea > too, in case one decides to break. For smaller fish, be sure to tie  > (or > tape) the bottom corners of the bags when bagging up smaller fish.  > this will > prevent them from getting caught in these corners and possibly  > dying as a > result. Action fish bags also need to be marked with the number of  > fish > contained and the species -- and quite often, depending upon the  > club, at least > your initials. Most clubs have a set of rules available just for fish > auctions. > > Since you don't see any eggs or fry on the rock this morning, the  > parents > may have eaten them, or they may have moved them. Their actions  > (and any new > location they're residing in) will tell you if they're still  > guarding their > fry. From what you're saying, you apparently left the fish  > completely in > the dark last night -- and I presume every night, as a matter of  > regular > routine. Perhaps I should have included this following advise, but  > just didn't > think of it as part of what was needed in attending to them, as  > it's just > automatic for me. When breeding most Cichlids. especially substrate  > spawners, > it's best to leave a small night light on, which would tend to  > prevent this > sudden light - dark - light stimuli difference which may otherwise  > cause > new pairs to temporarily lose ("forget") attention in the fact that  > they are > tending fry, when complete darkness interupts this portion of this  > breeding > cycle. The sudden new awareness the next day with renewed daylight may > occasionally result in one or both of these new breeders not  > recognizing these > eggs as there own -- only because the visual stimulation of seeing  > them has > been removed for a good period of hours. I recommend a small night- > light for > any aquarium anyway, as it will prevent the possibility of fish  > jumping > during the night. Even if the aquarium may be well-covered, there's  > still the > possibility that fish may injure themselves when jumping -- and  > they often > will when bumping into driftwood or having another fish bumping  > into them. > Some of the more expensive aquarium hoods have "moon- lights" built  > into them > for this purpose, but any small room light (even if it's a 7 watt > refrigerator bulb) will ensure that the fish won't "go bump in the  > night." > > If you were to syphon the fry out though, that would have been the  > best > time to do it -- just before lights out. I would add, if you  > planned to just > remove the rock (with eggs) in the future, it's much less stressful  > for the > fish if you replace that rock immediately with one very similar  > one. They > will then not realize that this first rock (with eggs) was removed -- > especially if you do this just before supplying them with only  > their night light at > that time of the evening. > > Most Tetras inhabit the lower third of the aquarium, whereas Danios  > inhabit > from the upper third, up to just under the surface, for the most part. > These Celestial Pearl Danios are small enough for the Ram parents  > to easily > control, anyhow -- but the larger Rummy-Nose pose more of a danger  > to the fry, > especially if there's a larger number of these Tetras in your  > school. Ray > > </HTML> > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] ------------------------------------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the home page.  Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com to receive the digest, which includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com for the No E-Mail option where you will still be able to read messages on the group and post replies. Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com to receive individual e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 45156	From: bill 1433	Date: 12/14/2009
Subject: Re: Blue rams hatching!

A serious thought?   20's and 10's are great but like anything else, take up room. It seems to me that you have more than enough hospital and emergency tanks available already.  What you need is a nice size community tank in the 75, 100 or 150 gallon range.    Truth be told (and Ray can tell you because he has a ton of them) small tanks are great but work just the same as the large bath tubs I just mentioned BUT-------the bath tubs are much easier to maintain, everyone agrees on that point.  You will find your "fussing" more with the smaller tanks.   Bill-----incidentally, those birds from your link are really something! --- On Mon, 12/14/09, Lainey Alexander <lainealex@...> wrote: From: Lainey Alexander <lainealex@...> Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Blue rams hatching! To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Date: Monday, December 14, 2009, 2:41 PM OK, you won't be very impressed, at all, but: 37, 25 cube, 20, 10  (fry and hospital etc), 5 (single betta), 2.5 (five red cherry  shrimp). The challenge is that they're all fully planted, which is  something I have almost no experience with - and the learning curve  is a bit steep. Also, John just bought a 40 breeder for a seagrass  tank and now I seem to be hearing about a 20g for something or other  and a 10g for emergencies...and so it begins. Those are being set up  in a cottage I can see out my window, and apparently, my daily help  will be needed there. Lainey http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com On Dec 14, 2009, at 2:30 PM, bill 1433 wrote: > Well----------------------------------------that's a start! > > Now what size are the tanks? > > Bill > > --- On Mon, 12/14/09, Lainey Alexander <lainealex@...>  > wrote: > > From: Lainey Alexander <lainealex@...> > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Blue rams hatching! > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Date: Monday, December 14, 2009, 1:04 PM > > I thought six qualified me for MTS:( > > Lainey > http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com > > On Dec 14, 2009, at 12:50 PM, sevenspringss@... wrote: > > > > > > > ONLY SIX, Lainey? How have you escaped contracting MTS > > (Multi-Tank-Syndrome) for this long? < g >. You're way behind in > > your "necessary" allotment of > > tanks (LOL). I wouldn't want to tell you how may I have. Many of us > > caught up fully by this hobby find that no matter how many tanks we > > have, we > > NEVER have enough! Ray</HTML> > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > ------------------------------------ > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying,  > Thank You. > ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..>< > ((((º> > PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT  > important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original  > message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old  > subject)" <- > <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><· > ´¯`·.¸¸. > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. > > If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of  > unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by clicking on  > "Edit My Membership" on the home page. > > Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com to receive the digest,  > which includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email > > Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com for the No E-Mail  > option where you will still be able to read messages on the group  > and post replies. > > Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com to receive individual e- > mails.Yahoo! Groups Links > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] ------------------------------------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the home page.  Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com to receive the digest, which includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com for the No E-Mail option where you will still be able to read messages on the group and post replies. Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com to receive individual e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 45157	From: Richard Rattie	Date: 12/14/2009
Subject: deep freeze

We recently suffered some single digit overnite temps and feared the worst for our Dojo Loaches that were outside. Their is good news and bad news: we lost two of them but at least four of them are alive and kicking including one goldden dojo. We were not expecting our temps to get as long as they did and feared the worst but my weather loaches 'weathered' the cold winter...... Rick [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 45158	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 12/14/2009
Subject: Re: Blue rams hatching!

It does.... others simply have OIMTS (Obsessively Impulsive Multiple Tank Syndrome) not to be confused with OINKS. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Lainey Alexander Sent: Monday, December 14, 2009 12:05 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Blue rams hatching! I thought six qualified me for MTS:( Lainey http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com On Dec 14, 2009, at 12:50 PM, sevenspringss@... wrote: > > > ONLY SIX, Lainey? How have you escaped contracting MTS > (Multi-Tank-Syndrome) for this long? < g >. You're way behind in your > "necessary" allotment of tanks (LOL). I wouldn't want to tell you how > may I have. Many of us caught up fully by this hobby find that no > matter how many tanks we have, we NEVER have enough! Ray</HTML>

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 45159	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 12/14/2009
Subject: Re: Blue rams hatching!

You need to start upgrading to bigger tanks... at least 55G tanks. A couple of 55G's would be much easier to maintain than a bunch of smaller tanks. It's cheaper to set up a 55G also. Most Walmart's have the entire 55G kit for around +/-$150.00 (tank, filter, heater, lighting, etc.). And if you want to upgrade the lighting on the cheap, a 4' shoplight and bulbs can be had for around $20.00. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Lainey Alexander Sent: Monday, December 14, 2009 1:42 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Blue rams hatching! OK, you won't be very impressed, at all, but: 37, 25 cube, 20, 10 (fry and hospital etc), 5 (single betta), 2.5 (five red cherry shrimp). The challenge is that they're all fully planted, which is something I have almost no experience with - and the learning curve is a bit steep. Also, John just bought a 40 breeder for a seagrass tank and now I seem to be hearing about a 20g for something or other and a 10g for emergencies...and so it begins. Those are being set up in a cottage I can see out my window, and apparently, my daily help will be needed there. Lainey http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com On Dec 14, 2009, at 2:30 PM, bill 1433 wrote: > Well----------------------------------------that's a start! > > Now what size are the tanks? > > Bill > > --- On Mon, 12/14/09, Lainey Alexander <lainealex@...> > wrote: > > From: Lainey Alexander <lainealex@...> > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Blue rams hatching! > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Date: Monday, December 14, 2009, 1:04 PM > > I thought six qualified me for MTS:( > > Lainey > http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com > > On Dec 14, 2009, at 12:50 PM, sevenspringss@... wrote: > > > > > > > ONLY SIX, Lainey? How have you escaped contracting MTS > > (Multi-Tank-Syndrome) for this long? < g >. You're way behind in > > your "necessary" allotment of tanks (LOL). I wouldn't want to tell > > you how may I have. Many of us caught up fully by this hobby find > > that no matter how many tanks we have, we NEVER have enough! > > Ray</HTML>

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 45160	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 12/14/2009
Subject: Re: Blue rams hatching!

I don't trust any TV or radio weather reporters. Statistics PROVE they are wrong more than 50% of the time. I mainly use http://www.wunderground.com for my weather information but also Accuweather.com, Intellicast.com and Weather.com. I use the five day forecasts from all four to give me a pretty good consensus but then use the Live NexRad Radar and the WunderMap Interactive Radar maps from Wunderground.com to see what's really going on out there. BTW... since I'm on the topic of "wunderground.com", which is the website URL for Weather Underground... and if you haven't been living in a cave the past two years (if you have... did you see Osama? lol), you'll recognize that name, Weather Underground, as it relates to the 60's domestic terrorist group and current USA politics. I was very curious so I did some simple reporting, since the website shared the same name as the 60's domestic terrorist group and below is a link to my report on my *other* non-fish blog (Lenny Vasbinder's Rants, Raves, Politics, Information, etc.)... something I've yet to see any of the news networks report... not even Fox News Channel. Since my report, the Weather Underground website has updated their "About Us" page to include an explanation about how they got the name, which wasn't on there before Lenny Vasbinder, Ace Reporter, started inquiring. ;-) My email inquiries started in August 2008 and around September 2008, they Wunderground.com also posted a blog explaining how they came about sharing the same name. "Weather Underground... weather website or domestic terrorist group?" http://lennyvasbinder.blogspot.com/2009/03/weather-underground-weather-websi te-or.html http://www.wunderground.com/about/background.asp 7th post down is their official explanation... http://french.wunderground.com/blog/WundergroundDevs/comment.html?entrynum=1 9 Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of bill 1433 Sent: Monday, December 14, 2009 1:46 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: Blue rams hatching! Hi Kai!   I went full circle and now use or listen and watch 28 WBRE!   Now it's not always good news weather-wise, but at least it's the truth. Started about a month ago when our "Joe" gave a report of 1 to 3" in our area, with a temp of about 35 to 42------no biggie, right?  NOT!   We got 4 to 6 and then capped it off toward the early morning hours with a nice dose of sleet and freezing rain, my favorite!  I won't even go out for the mail in that stuff! Took a bad fall in that stuff last January and sometime my left arm still gives me "fits" from it.  I think alot of this is my own fault, last year got a new very heavy duty snow blower (my luck) in case you don't know it--------------------------you can not use a snow blower for sleet and freezing rain!   If it can go wrong, it will happen to Bill------trust me!   Bill --- On Mon, 12/14/09, kuradi8 <kuradi8@...> wrote: From: kuradi8 <kuradi8@...> Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Blue rams hatching! To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Date: Monday, December 14, 2009, 2:16 PM Ugh...  I really don't mind snow but this sloppy slushy ice is awful! Ya think if we placed orders for better weather with Snedecker or Clarkie, we'd actually get it??? ~Kai > bill 1433 wrote: > > Welcome to the Land Of Snow, Sleet and of course, Freezing Rain! >  > Bill > > > > Kai wrote: > > > Northeast PA?  Where are you?  I'm next to Mount Pocono. > ~Kai > > > > > bill 1433 wrote: > > > > Hi Lainey, > >  > > I can only offer you this, if you lived in Northeastern > > Pennsylvania, you would NOT have a Blue Ram fry problem!

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 45161	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 12/14/2009
Subject: Re: deep freeze

They are cool/cold water fish (50F to 75F range) but probably, like Goldfish and Koi, can tolerate much warmer waters and colder waters if they go into a hibernative state like Goldfish and Koi do when the water temps consistently go down below 50F. Since your winters seem like you could have this type of water conditions, you should read up on overwintering goldfish/Koi for information on feeding, when to stop feeding, etc. I have a couple of pond blog articles and one of them have links to several good overwintering articles and DIY pond de-icer to keep a hole in the top of your pond should it ever freeze over. The DIY floating pond de-icer is much more economical to operate than the any kind of heater or pond de-icer found in stores. On a related note, do you normally keep them outside all winter or did you just get caught off guard? Are they in a in-ground pond, above-ground pond, large tank or ??? Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Richard Rattie Sent: Monday, December 14, 2009 2:15 PM To: aquaticlife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] deep freeze We recently suffered some single digit overnite temps and feared the worst for our Dojo Loaches that were outside. Their is good news and bad news: we lost two of them but at least four of them are alive and kicking including one goldden dojo. We were not expecting our temps to get as long as they did and feared the worst but my weather loaches 'weathered' the cold winter...... Rick

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 45162	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 12/14/2009
Subject: Re: Blue rams hatching!

I agree with you too Bill, the Rams that I got this summer didn't make it through the fall, they slowly dwindled until I had none left. I think there is something about my water that they just don't like, or perhaps my tank isn't sparkling clean enough for them, LOL. Either way I gave up, but they are such pretty fish :( Congrats on the babies, hope some of them make it, but I can only guess as to how hard it's going to be to raise such touchy fish. Amber bill 1433 wrote: > > Hi Lainey, > > I can only offer you this, if you lived in Northeastern Pennsylvania, > you would NOT > have a Blue Ram fry problem! > > I have tried, and failed for almost a year, to do exactly what you > have done, as if by "Magic" > > Sitting down here, green not from algae but envy, I can only tell you to, > enjoy, enjoy. If enough fry prosper, it's the perfect excuse to get a > larger tank! > > Best wishes and please keep us posted on their up-bringing, > > Bill > > --- On Sun, 12/13/09, Lainey Alexander <lainealex@... > <mailto:lainealex%40earthlink.net>> wrote: > > From: Lainey Alexander <lainealex@... > <mailto:lainealex%40earthlink.net>> > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Blue rams hatching! > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Date: Sunday, December 13, 2009, 11:27 PM > > Yikes. > > Thank you so much, Ray, I think I understand all the issues. > > On a bright note, I had an overdose of guppy fry recently, and tried > to feed them to the adults in this tank and there were no takers! I > had to scoop out the fry and feed them to my voracious male Betta. I > planned to move the female gupps into the 10g soon to prevent this > type of thing, but could postpone since I have the Betta:( > > I'm really torn about raising these Rams. I'm very excited to have > them, and would very much like to raise them, but on the other hand, > it breaks my heart to take them to even the best LFS. I can see that > the conditions are not even in the ballpark of what I consider > minimally acceptable. And who knows where they go after that, IF they > survive the LFS which is not a sure bet considering how many corpses > I always see in those stores. That leaves me with shipping, which > scares me just about as much. Fish I have received via mail are often > dead - not always but often enough. Who's to say I would beat the > odds there? > > If I knew I could sell them or even give them away to good people who > would drive to my house, I would be highly motivated to preserve each > baby. > > Do you think there is any likelihood that people would want to come > pick them up from me? I live in western Massachusetts, if that > matters... > > Thanks again, for this totally thorough assessment! > > Lainey > http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com <http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com> > > On Dec 13, 2009, at 10:28 PM, sevenspringss@... > <mailto:sevenspringss%40wmconnect.com> wrote: > > > Lainey, There are a number of dangers that these fry will need to > > overcome > > for them to survive as future tank members. Depending on how many > > you're > > looking to raise, your next steps would indicate their rate of > > survival. I > > note you have a spare, running, "empty" 10 gallon tank available to > > you if > > needed. > > > > The first danger these fry will encounter in their present > > environment is > > that after hatching and before they are free-swimming, they will > > have the > > tendency to detach from this rock with the result that an > > undetermined amount > > of them will fall to the substrate. The parents will make every > > attempt they > > can to replace them near the spawning site, lifting them from the > > gravel > > but depending on the courseness of your gravel, an amount of these > > yet-to-be-swimming fry will be lost when they fall unretrieveably > > down between the > > gravel grains where the parents can't reach them. > > > > The second danger of course, will be predation by these other fish, > > with > > your Rummy Nose Tetras posing the most threat, Here, the parents > > will do > > their best in preventing this, chasing the intruders off, but the > > temptation of > > free food (fry) will see repeated attempts by your other fish to > > get to > > these fry -- depending on how heavily stocked your tank is. As I > > don't know how > > many Cory's, Rummy-Nose Tetras and Galaxy Rasboras (true identity -- > > Celestial Pearl Danio) you have, I can't know how much of a threat > > they'll > > continue to be. Know that this will be an ongoing threat though, as > > the fry > > venture further away from the parents. There will always be an > > increasing amount > > of fry venturing away from the parents as they continue to grow, > > which may > > not find sufficient cover at all times. > > > > A third danger will be in not being able to get enough food to > > these fry, > > and/or in trying to do so, excess food may compromise the water > > value. In > > feeding newly-hatched brine shrimp, no doubt the other fish will > > take at least > > their fair share of this food, leaving a much smaller quantity of > > it than > > you intended for the fry, unless you can find some way of > > concentrated this > > food in the fry's area -- perhaps with a turkey baster or some other > > instrument. Then too, this food will again attract the other fish > > to this area > > when they discover it. > > > > If your goal is to save as many fry as you can, you'd need to > > transfer them > > to the 10 gallon tank after they hatch, or at the very latest, > > right after > > they become free-swimming -- via siphoning them from this 37 gallon > > tank > > into a small vessel, to then be moved to your 10 gallon tank. If > > you feel you > > can't accomplish this, they may be moved with the rock while still > > attached > > to it, or -- depending on this rock's immediate vicinity's > > allowances for > > performing this -- you may sweep the fry up in a brine shrimp net with > > figure-eight motions right after they become free-swimming. > > > > For best ease of maintenance, this 10 gallon tank optimally should > > have a > > bare bottom to facilitate syphoning of waste off when maintaining > > this fry > > tank. Too, if transferring the fry to this 10 gallon tank while > > they are > > still unhatched eggs or wrigglers (hatched, but not yet free- > > swimming fry), a > > bare bottom (no gravel) would be essential to prevent the fry from > > falling > > into (between grains) the gravel where they couldn't escape. If > > transferring > > the fry after they're free-swimming, you may keep the 10 gallon's > > gravel in > > place but it will hinder best assurances of keeping the bottom free of > > organic debris (dead brine shrimp, etc.). > > > > Fry should be fed at least twice a day with the newly-hatched brine > > shrimp > > you're intending to feed them -- preferably three times a day. For > > maximum > > growth, they may be fed up to five times a day, beyond which there > > is little > > extra benefit. Additional maintenance goes along with additional > > feedings > > to insure best water conditions for the fry. Ray > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > ------------------------------------ > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. > ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> > PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT > important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message > MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- > <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. > > If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of unsubscribing, > you can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My > Membership" on the home page. > > Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:aquaticlife-digest%40yahoogroups.com> to receive the digest, > which includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email > > Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:aquaticlife-nomail%40yahoogroups.com> for the No E-Mail option > where you will still be able to read messages on the group and post > replies. > > Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:aquaticlife-normal%40yahoogroups.com> to receive individual > e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 45163	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 12/14/2009
Subject: Re: Blue rams hatching!

Wow, thought I had a lot of tanks ;) LOL. I have 2 x 55 gallons, 2 x 10 gallons, and a 125 gallon, with a spare 10 gallon sitting empty ready for "just in case". I also have a hex sitting at my parents house with a plant sitting in it (still holds water but I can't get my parents to give it back to me, LOL). I'm tempted to go over one day and just get the tank and leave the plant sitting on the table and see how long it takes them to notice, LOL. Amber pam andress wrote: > > > Only to a point. You have to have extras waiting just in case you need > another one at the last moment. OR A total fish room with lots of > tanks in that. OR ;) > > I have 9 set up at the moment. I always say at the moment, because > that can change daily. lol > > If I could afford the electricty, I would have lots more!!! I want a > 125 and a few more 55's wouldn't be bad lol, and I have 7 not up at > the moment. > > Pam > > > I thought six qualified me for MTS:( > > Lainey > > ONLY SIX, Lainey? How have you escaped contracting MTS > (Multi-Tank-Syndrome) for this long? < g >. You're way behind in > your "necessary" allotment of > tanks (LOL). I wouldn't want to tell you how may I have. Many of us > caught up fully by this hobby find that no matter how many tanks we > have, we > > NEVER have enough! Ray > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 45164	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 12/14/2009
Subject: Re: Blue rams hatching!

Honestly Lainey I'd suggest if you want to breed them to use that 37 gallon and maybe get a few more females and 1 male and have it as your Blue ram only tank for breeding. Then get a bigger tank for your community tank (such as a 40-55 gallon or even bigger if you want one that size). Also I don't see why people wouldn't want some of your blue grass guppy's I think they're pretty myself, now if they were purple I'd be telling you to send me some (not asking, LOL). ;) There's no way to tell if the rams will continue to eat their young or if it was the other fish doing it, without separating them. With other fish in the tank they're bound to get over protective and eat the babies before anything else can, and if they don't do that then they're bound to not notice at some point when something is secretly snacking on their babies behind their backs. I have 2 angelfish that periodically lay eggs then eat them all again shortly afterwards. I don't know if they are just practicing or don't know that they're supposed to let them live to produce more ;) LOL. Either way they're happy in their 55 gallon tank to themselves. Amber Lainey Alexander wrote: > Thanks, Ray - > > I have a few more questions: > > I do have moon lights on the 37g plus a standup lamp with 75w > incandescent nearby that I use for all the tanks and the finches as a > night light. Still, the cave cavity was very dark. Do you think the > light I describe would be enough? > > I'm not loving the option of either moving out the rock (in the > future if they ever spawn again) or siphoning the wrigglers. Do you > think the parents will get better at not eating the babies in the > future, or if they did it once, they'll probably always do it? I > realize that the seven rummies may have eaten the fry, but since I > can't find even one, and the parents are acting like nothing is going > on, and there are no fry in the filter, I think you're probably right > it was the parents. With my finches, they get better at breeding as > time goes by, so wondering if the rams might do this too? > > Otherwise, I would probably want to set up the rams in their own tank > - ugh? > > Finally, if I went to one of these local auctions, do you think > anyone would be interested in some blue grass guppy juveniles that I > bred from stock I bought through Frank Schwab of guppyalternative? > > Thank you again, > > Lainey > http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com > > On Dec 14, 2009, at 12:44 PM, sevenspringss@... wrote: > > >> Hi Lainey, Unfortunately for your friend John, most clubs here in the >> northeast are pretty much freshwater clubs for the most part, >> except for NEC >> member-club, Brooklyn Aquarium Society. I know thats way too far >> for you to >> come just for a meeting, though. Besides, while such a club may fit >> right in >> with your friend's interests some months, you may feel left out, as >> they >> alternate monthly meeting with having a freshwater themed night one >> month and a >> saltwater themed night the next month. I don't believe there is >> that much >> interest in marine aquariums within the New England clubs. >> >> Yes, when they hold these fish auctions, almost all fish would be >> presented >> in plastic fish bags, just as you'd buy them from the store. Double >> bags >> are used to ensure against leakage, and one bag is inverted into >> the other -- >> again, to help ensure against leakage. Occasionally, a very large >> fish may >> be submitted in a 5 gallon bucket (w/lid), that goes with the >> purchase. If >> you were shipping fish, you would also double-bag them, inverting >> one into >> the other. Such fish would arrive in better shape, and be more >> assured of >> arriving alive if you could arrange for filling these bags with >> oxygen, by >> your local fish store -- if they'd be so accomodating to you -- >> when shipping. >> Oxygen is not needed for bagging up fish for the one day that >> they're at >> an auction. If oxygen can't be obtained for shipping, just make >> sure to pack >> the fish lightly, giving them a bit more room per bag (or use >> larger bags). >> These bags, whether filled with air or O2, should ideally be filled >> 1/3 >> with water and 2/3 with either air or O2. Double rubber bands are a >> good idea >> too, in case one decides to break. For smaller fish, be sure to tie >> (or >> tape) the bottom corners of the bags when bagging up smaller fish. >> this will >> prevent them from getting caught in these corners and possibly >> dying as a >> result. Action fish bags also need to be marked with the number of >> fish >> contained and the species -- and quite often, depending upon the >> club, at least >> your initials. Most clubs have a set of rules available just for fish >> auctions. >> >> Since you don't see any eggs or fry on the rock this morning, the >> parents >> may have eaten them, or they may have moved them. Their actions >> (and any new >> location they're residing in) will tell you if they're still >> guarding their >> fry. From what you're saying, you apparently left the fish >> completely in >> the dark last night -- and I presume every night, as a matter of >> regular >> routine. Perhaps I should have included this following advise, but >> just didn't >> think of it as part of what was needed in attending to them, as >> it's just >> automatic for me. When breeding most Cichlids. especially substrate >> spawners, >> it's best to leave a small night light on, which would tend to >> prevent this >> sudden light - dark - light stimuli difference which may otherwise >> cause >> new pairs to temporarily lose ("forget") attention in the fact that >> they are >> tending fry, when complete darkness interupts this portion of this >> breeding >> cycle. The sudden new awareness the next day with renewed daylight may >> occasionally result in one or both of these new breeders not >> recognizing these >> eggs as there own -- only because the visual stimulation of seeing >> them has >> been removed for a good period of hours. I recommend a small night- >> light for >> any aquarium anyway, as it will prevent the possibility of fish >> jumping >> during the night. Even if the aquarium may be well-covered, there's >> still the >> possibility that fish may injure themselves when jumping -- and >> they often >> will when bumping into driftwood or having another fish bumping >> into them. >> Some of the more expensive aquarium hoods have "moon- lights" built >> into them >> for this purpose, but any small room light (even if it's a 7 watt >> refrigerator bulb) will ensure that the fish won't "go bump in the >> night." >> >> If you were to syphon the fry out though, that would have been the >> best >> time to do it -- just before lights out. I would add, if you >> planned to just >> remove the rock (with eggs) in the future, it's much less stressful >> for the >> fish if you replace that rock immediately with one very similar >> one. They >> will then not realize that this first rock (with eggs) was removed -- >> especially if you do this just before supplying them with only >> their night light at >> that time of the evening. >> >> Most Tetras inhabit the lower third of the aquarium, whereas Danios >> inhabit >> from the upper third, up to just under the surface, for the most part. >> These Celestial Pearl Danios are small enough for the Ram parents >> to easily >> control, anyhow -- but the larger Rummy-Nose pose more of a danger >> to the fry, >> especially if there's a larger number of these Tetras in your >> school. Ray >> >> </HTML> >> >> > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > ------------------------------------ > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. > ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> > PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- > <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. > > If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the home page. > > Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com to receive the digest, which includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email > > Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com for the No E-Mail option where you will still be able to read messages on the group and post replies. > > Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com to receive individual e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links > > > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 45165	From: bill 1433	Date: 12/14/2009
Subject: Re: Blue rams hatching!

Hi Amber,   Out of the original 9 I have 3 left.  But a pair in 3?  C'mon now you know Bill's Luck--------none!   Still, like you, I keeping thinking of them and of course, I still have that breeder information, ah but the colder weather is now upon us. I remember that Lainey had posted a while ago, her water parameters.   I did learn one important thing about Rams, they don't like to move or be moved. If they are going into a 55, put them there, not a 10-gallon Q tank or even a 20 long for that matter.  Along with their pristine water conditions, this is a fact I learned the hard way. Even if the fish are sick, treat them, in the tank they are in, don't move the little buggers or come sun-rise you'll be fishing out bodies.   Bill --- On Mon, 12/14/09, Amber Berglund <arberglund@...> wrote: From: Amber Berglund <arberglund@...> Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Blue rams hatching! To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Date: Monday, December 14, 2009, 5:54 PM I agree with you too Bill, the Rams that I got this summer didn't make it through the fall, they slowly dwindled until I had none left. I think there is something about my water that they just don't like, or perhaps my tank isn't sparkling clean enough for them, LOL. Either way I gave up, but they are such pretty fish :( Congrats on the babies, hope some of them make it, but I can only guess as to how hard it's going to be to raise such touchy fish. Amber bill 1433 wrote: > > Hi Lainey, > > I can only offer you this, if you lived in Northeastern Pennsylvania, > you would NOT > have a Blue Ram fry problem! > > I have tried, and failed for almost a year, to do exactly what you > have done, as if by "Magic" > > Sitting down here, green not from algae but envy, I can only tell you to, > enjoy, enjoy. If enough fry prosper, it's the perfect excuse to get a > larger tank! > > Best wishes and please keep us posted on their up-bringing, > > Bill > > --- On Sun, 12/13/09, Lainey Alexander <lainealex@... > <mailto:lainealex%40earthlink.net>> wrote: > > From: Lainey Alexander <lainealex@... > <mailto:lainealex%40earthlink.net>> > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Blue rams hatching! > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Date: Sunday, December 13, 2009, 11:27 PM > > Yikes. > > Thank you so much, Ray, I think I understand all the issues. > > On a bright note, I had an overdose of guppy fry recently, and tried > to feed them to the adults in this tank and there were no takers! I > had to scoop out the fry and feed them to my voracious male Betta. I > planned to move the female gupps into the 10g soon to prevent this > type of thing, but could postpone since I have the Betta:( > > I'm really torn about raising these Rams. I'm very excited to have > them, and would very much like to raise them, but on the other hand, > it breaks my heart to take them to even the best LFS. I can see that > the conditions are not even in the ballpark of what I consider > minimally acceptable. And who knows where they go after that, IF they > survive the LFS which is not a sure bet considering how many corpses > I always see in those stores. That leaves me with shipping, which > scares me just about as much. Fish I have received via mail are often > dead - not always but often enough. Who's to say I would beat the > odds there? > > If I knew I could sell them or even give them away to good people who > would drive to my house, I would be highly motivated to preserve each > baby. > > Do you think there is any likelihood that people would want to come > pick them up from me? I live in western Massachusetts, if that > matters... > > Thanks again, for this totally thorough assessment! > > Lainey > http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com <http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com> > > On Dec 13, 2009, at 10:28 PM, sevenspringss@... > <mailto:sevenspringss%40wmconnect.com> wrote: > > > Lainey, There are a number of dangers that these fry will need to > > overcome > > for them to survive as future tank members. Depending on how many > > you're > > looking to raise, your next steps would indicate their rate of > > survival. I > > note you have a spare, running, "empty" 10 gallon tank available to > > you if > > needed. > > > > The first danger these fry will encounter in their present > > environment is > > that after hatching and before they are free-swimming, they will > > have the > > tendency to detach from this rock with the result that an > > undetermined amount > > of them will fall to the substrate. The parents will make every > > attempt they > > can to replace them near the spawning site, lifting them from the > > gravel > > but depending on the courseness of your gravel, an amount of these > > yet-to-be-swimming fry will be lost when they fall unretrieveably > > down between the > > gravel grains where the parents can't reach them. > > > > The second danger of course, will be predation by these other fish, > > with > > your Rummy Nose Tetras posing the most threat, Here, the parents > > will do > > their best in preventing this, chasing the intruders off, but the > > temptation of > > free food (fry) will see repeated attempts by your other fish to > > get to > > these fry -- depending on how heavily stocked your tank is. As I > > don't know how > > many Cory's, Rummy-Nose Tetras and Galaxy Rasboras (true identity -- > > Celestial Pearl Danio) you have, I can't know how much of a threat > > they'll > > continue to be. Know that this will be an ongoing threat though, as > > the fry > > venture further away from the parents. There will always be an > > increasing amount > > of fry venturing away from the parents as they continue to grow, > > which may > > not find sufficient cover at all times. > > > > A third danger will be in not being able to get enough food to > > these fry, > > and/or in trying to do so, excess food may compromise the water > > value. In > > feeding newly-hatched brine shrimp, no doubt the other fish will > > take at least > > their fair share of this food, leaving a much smaller quantity of > > it than > > you intended for the fry, unless you can find some way of > > concentrated this > > food in the fry's area -- perhaps with a turkey baster or some other > > instrument. Then too, this food will again attract the other fish > > to this area > > when they discover it. > > > > If your goal is to save as many fry as you can, you'd need to > > transfer them > > to the 10 gallon tank after they hatch, or at the very latest, > > right after > > they become free-swimming -- via siphoning them from this 37 gallon > > tank > > into a small vessel, to then be moved to your 10 gallon tank. If > > you feel you > > can't accomplish this, they may be moved with the rock while still > > attached > > to it, or -- depending on this rock's immediate vicinity's > > allowances for > > performing this -- you may sweep the fry up in a brine shrimp net with > > figure-eight motions right after they become free-swimming. > > > > For best ease of maintenance, this 10 gallon tank optimally should > > have a > > bare bottom to facilitate syphoning of waste off when maintaining > > this fry > > tank. Too, if transferring the fry to this 10 gallon tank while > > they are > > still unhatched eggs or wrigglers (hatched, but not yet free- > > swimming fry), a > > bare bottom (no gravel) would be essential to prevent the fry from > > falling > > into (between grains) the gravel where they couldn't escape. If > > transferring > > the fry after they're free-swimming, you may keep the 10 gallon's > > gravel in > > place but it will hinder best assurances of keeping the bottom free of > > organic debris (dead brine shrimp, etc.). > > > > Fry should be fed at least twice a day with the newly-hatched brine > > shrimp > > you're intending to feed them -- preferably three times a day. For > > maximum > > growth, they may be fed up to five times a day, beyond which there > > is little > > extra benefit. Additional maintenance goes along with additional > > feedings > > to insure best water conditions for the fry. Ray > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > ------------------------------------ > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. > ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> > PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT > important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message > MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- > <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. > > If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of unsubscribing, > you can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My > Membership" on the home page. > > Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:aquaticlife-digest%40yahoogroups.com> to receive the digest, > which includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email > > Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:aquaticlife-nomail%40yahoogroups.com> for the No E-Mail option > where you will still be able to read messages on the group and post > replies. > > Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:aquaticlife-normal%40yahoogroups.com> to receive individual > e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > ------------------------------------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the home page.  Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com to receive the digest, which includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com for the No E-Mail option where you will still be able to read messages on the group and post replies. Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com to receive individual e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 45166	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 12/14/2009
Subject: Re: Blue rams hatching!

Yeah I thought about getting more, but I've found that it's cheaper and easier to just stick with the same types of fish that survive in my water parameters. So far live bearers seem to thrive (too well, LOL), snails are also threatening to overpopulate my 55 gallon, good thing I'm going to "harvest" quite a few soon, almost the right size ;) I'm considering trying my hand at breeding some pleco's (the ones that Pam sent me), but right now it's just an idea, the "brown" ones are not old enough to tell gender, but I'm pretty sure both Albino ones are males. Amber bill 1433 wrote: > > Hi Amber, > > Out of the original 9 I have 3 left. But a pair in 3? C'mon now > you know Bill's Luck--------none! > > Still, like you, I keeping thinking of them and of course, I still > have that > breeder information, ah but the colder weather is now upon us. > I remember that Lainey had posted a while ago, her water parameters. > > I did learn one important thing about Rams, they don't like to move or > be moved. > If they are going into a 55, put them there, not a 10-gallon Q tank or > even a 20 long for that > matter. Along with their pristine water conditions, this is a fact I > learned the hard > way. Even if the fish are sick, treat them, in the tank they are in, > don't move the little > buggers or come sun-rise you'll be fishing out bodies. > > Bill > > --- On Mon, 12/14/09, Amber Berglund <arberglund@... > <mailto:arberglund%40gmail.com>> wrote: > > From: Amber Berglund <arberglund@... > <mailto:arberglund%40gmail.com>> > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Blue rams hatching! > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Date: Monday, December 14, 2009, 5:54 PM > > I agree with you too Bill, the Rams that I got this summer didn't make > it through the fall, they slowly dwindled until I had none left. I think > there is something about my water that they just don't like, or perhaps > my tank isn't sparkling clean enough for them, LOL. Either way I gave > up, but they are such pretty fish :( > Congrats on the babies, hope some of them make it, but I can only guess > as to how hard it's going to be to raise such touchy fish. > > Amber > > bill 1433 wrote: > > > > Hi Lainey, > > > > I can only offer you this, if you lived in Northeastern Pennsylvania, > > you would NOT > > have a Blue Ram fry problem! > > > > I have tried, and failed for almost a year, to do exactly what you > > have done, as if by "Magic" > > > > Sitting down here, green not from algae but envy, I can only tell > you to, > > enjoy, enjoy. If enough fry prosper, it's the perfect excuse to get a > > larger tank! > > > > Best wishes and please keep us posted on their up-bringing, > > > > Bill > > > > --- On Sun, 12/13/09, Lainey Alexander <lainealex@... > <mailto:lainealex%40earthlink.net> > > <mailto:lainealex%40earthlink.net>> wrote: > > > > From: Lainey Alexander <lainealex@... > <mailto:lainealex%40earthlink.net> > > <mailto:lainealex%40earthlink.net>> > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Blue rams hatching! > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > Date: Sunday, December 13, 2009, 11:27 PM > > > > Yikes. > > > > Thank you so much, Ray, I think I understand all the issues. > > > > On a bright note, I had an overdose of guppy fry recently, and tried > > to feed them to the adults in this tank and there were no takers! I > > had to scoop out the fry and feed them to my voracious male Betta. I > > planned to move the female gupps into the 10g soon to prevent this > > type of thing, but could postpone since I have the Betta:( > > > > I'm really torn about raising these Rams. I'm very excited to have > > them, and would very much like to raise them, but on the other hand, > > it breaks my heart to take them to even the best LFS. I can see that > > the conditions are not even in the ballpark of what I consider > > minimally acceptable. And who knows where they go after that, IF they > > survive the LFS which is not a sure bet considering how many corpses > > I always see in those stores. That leaves me with shipping, which > > scares me just about as much. Fish I have received via mail are often > > dead - not always but often enough. Who's to say I would beat the > > odds there? > > > > If I knew I could sell them or even give them away to good people who > > would drive to my house, I would be highly motivated to preserve each > > baby. > > > > Do you think there is any likelihood that people would want to come > > pick them up from me? I live in western Massachusetts, if that > > matters... > > > > Thanks again, for this totally thorough assessment! > > > > Lainey > > http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com > <http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com> > <http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com <http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com>> > > > > On Dec 13, 2009, at 10:28 PM, sevenspringss@... > <mailto:sevenspringss%40wmconnect.com> > > <mailto:sevenspringss%40wmconnect.com> wrote: > > > > > Lainey, There are a number of dangers that these fry will need to > > > overcome > > > for them to survive as future tank members. Depending on how many > > > you're > > > looking to raise, your next steps would indicate their rate of > > > survival. I > > > note you have a spare, running, "empty" 10 gallon tank available to > > > you if > > > needed. > > > > > > The first danger these fry will encounter in their present > > > environment is > > > that after hatching and before they are free-swimming, they will > > > have the > > > tendency to detach from this rock with the result that an > > > undetermined amount > > > of them will fall to the substrate. The parents will make every > > > attempt they > > > can to replace them near the spawning site, lifting them from the > > > gravel > > > but depending on the courseness of your gravel, an amount of these > > > yet-to-be-swimming fry will be lost when they fall unretrieveably > > > down between the > > > gravel grains where the parents can't reach them. > > > > > > The second danger of course, will be predation by these other fish, > > > with > > > your Rummy Nose Tetras posing the most threat, Here, the parents > > > will do > > > their best in preventing this, chasing the intruders off, but the > > > temptation of > > > free food (fry) will see repeated attempts by your other fish to > > > get to > > > these fry -- depending on how heavily stocked your tank is. As I > > > don't know how > > > many Cory's, Rummy-Nose Tetras and Galaxy Rasboras (true identity -- > > > Celestial Pearl Danio) you have, I can't know how much of a threat > > > they'll > > > continue to be. Know that this will be an ongoing threat though, as > > > the fry > > > venture further away from the parents. There will always be an > > > increasing amount > > > of fry venturing away from the parents as they continue to grow, > > > which may > > > not find sufficient cover at all times. > > > > > > A third danger will be in not being able to get enough food to > > > these fry, > > > and/or in trying to do so, excess food may compromise the water > > > value. In > > > feeding newly-hatched brine shrimp, no doubt the other fish will > > > take at least > > > their fair share of this food, leaving a much smaller quantity of > > > it than > > > you intended for the fry, unless you can find some way of > > > concentrated this > > > food in the fry's area -- perhaps with a turkey baster or some other > > > instrument. Then too, this food will again attract the other fish > > > to this area > > > when they discover it. > > > > > > If your goal is to save as many fry as you can, you'd need to > > > transfer them > > > to the 10 gallon tank after they hatch, or at the very latest, > > > right after > > > they become free-swimming -- via siphoning them from this 37 gallon > > > tank > > > into a small vessel, to then be moved to your 10 gallon tank. If > > > you feel you > > > can't accomplish this, they may be moved with the rock while still > > > attached > > > to it, or -- depending on this rock's immediate vicinity's > > > allowances for > > > performing this -- you may sweep the fry up in a brine shrimp net with > > > figure-eight motions right after they become free-swimming. > > > > > > For best ease of maintenance, this 10 gallon tank optimally should > > > have a > > > bare bottom to facilitate syphoning of waste off when maintaining > > > this fry > > > tank. Too, if transferring the fry to this 10 gallon tank while > > > they are > > > still unhatched eggs or wrigglers (hatched, but not yet free- > > > swimming fry), a > > > bare bottom (no gravel) would be essential to prevent the fry from > > > falling > > > into (between grains) the gravel where they couldn't escape. If > > > transferring > > > the fry after they're free-swimming, you may keep the 10 gallon's > > > gravel in > > > place but it will hinder best assurances of keeping the bottom free of > > > organic debris (dead brine shrimp, etc.). > > > > > > Fry should be fed at least twice a day with the newly-hatched brine > > > shrimp > > > you're intending to feed them -- preferably three times a day. For > > > maximum > > > growth, they may be fed up to five times a day, beyond which there > > > is little > > > extra benefit. Additional maintenance goes along with additional > > > feedings > > > to insure best water conditions for the fry. Ray > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > ------------------------------------ > > > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, > Thank You. > > ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> > > PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT > > important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message > > MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- > > <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. > > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. > > > > If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of unsubscribing, > > you can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My > > Membership" on the home page. > > > > Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:aquaticlife-digest%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:aquaticlife-digest%40yahoogroups.com> to receive the digest, > > which includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email > > > > Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:aquaticlife-nomail%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:aquaticlife-nomail%40yahoogroups.com> for the No E-Mail option > > where you will still be able to read messages on the group and post > > replies. > > > > Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:aquaticlife-normal%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:aquaticlife-normal%40yahoogroups.com> to receive individual > > e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > > > ------------------------------------ > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. > ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> > PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT > important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message > MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- > <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. > > If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of unsubscribing, > you can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My > Membership" on the home page. > > Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:aquaticlife-digest%40yahoogroups.com> to receive the digest, > which includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email > > Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:aquaticlife-nomail%40yahoogroups.com> for the No E-Mail option > where you will still be able to read messages on the group and post > replies. > > Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:aquaticlife-normal%40yahoogroups.com> to receive individual > e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 45167	From: erikaandnewton	Date: 12/14/2009
Subject: rotting anubias

so i noticed today that one of my anubias in my newt tank was rotten. this one was attatched to a rock with thread the one i bought that was attached to drift wood seems healthy as is the one i attached to a rock with a rubber band. since i just got two more i want to make sure i dont kill them. if i had tied the thread too tight would this cause rot? is there a better method to use? erika newark de usa

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 45168	From: kuradi8	Date: 12/14/2009
Subject: Re: Blue rams hatching!

I like Tom Clark's weather best -- and I love that he tells us to look for the Space Station when it's visible overhead. Last week's storm was nasty. No way to blow it, and then the sloppy slush froze into icy slot car ruts in our driveway. It's still there, topped off with Sunday's ice. We chopped, salted and melted a LITTLE of it today. At least there's a path now so we can get to the trash can at the curb without taking our lives in our hands. And there's more STUFF coming tomorrow night. Ducky. Perhaps we should get flame throwers??? I bashed my shoulder about 14 years ago and it confirms any kind of "weather" outside so I commiserate with your arm. But at least our fishies are happy and oblivious to the fact that their tanks are located in the Arctic Circle. ~Kai > bill 1433 wrote: > > Hi Kai! > > I went full circle and now use or listen and watch 28 WBRE! > > Now it's not always good news weather-wise, but at least it's the truth. > Started about a month ago when our "Joe" gave a report of 1 to 3" in our area, with a temp of about 35 to 42------no biggie, right? NOT! > > We got 4 to 6 and then capped it off toward the early morning hours with a nice dose > of sleet and freezing rain, my favorite! I won't even go out for the mail in that stuff! > Took a bad fall in that stuff last January and sometime my left arm still gives me "fits" from it. I think alot of this is my own fault, last year got a new very heavy duty snow blower (my luck) in case you don't know it--------------------------you can not use a snow blower for sleet and freezing rain! > > If it can go wrong, it will happen to Bill------trust me! > > Bill > > Kai wrote: > > Ugh... I really don't mind snow but this sloppy slushy ice is awful! > > Ya think if we placed orders for better weather with Snedecker or Clarkie, we'd actually get it??? > ~Kai > > > > > bill 1433 wrote: > > > > Welcome to the Land Of Snow, Sleet and of course, Freezing Rain! > > > > Bill > > > > > > > > Kai wrote: > > > > > > Northeast PA? Where are you? I'm next to Mount Pocono. > > ~Kai > > > > > > > > > bill 1433 wrote: > > > > > > Hi Lainey, > > > > > > I can only offer you this, if you lived in Northeastern Pennsylvania, you would NOT > > > have a Blue Ram fry problem! > > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 45169	From: bill 1433	Date: 12/14/2009
Subject: Re: Blue rams hatching!

Oh, don't get me wrong, we still watch 16 and the morning crew. It's just that I now take their predictions with a grain of salt and watch 28 too.   Bill --- On Mon, 12/14/09, kuradi8 <kuradi8@...> wrote: From: kuradi8 <kuradi8@...> Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Blue rams hatching! To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Date: Monday, December 14, 2009, 7:46 PM I like Tom Clark's weather best -- and I love that he tells us to look for the Space Station when it's visible overhead.  Last week's storm was nasty.  No way to blow it, and then the sloppy slush froze into icy slot car ruts in our driveway.  It's still there, topped off with Sunday's ice.  We chopped, salted and melted a LITTLE of it today.  At least there's a path now so we can get to the trash can at the curb without taking our lives in our hands.  And there's more STUFF coming tomorrow night.  Ducky.  Perhaps we should get flame throwers??? I bashed my shoulder about 14 years ago and it confirms any kind of "weather" outside so I commiserate with your arm. But at least our fishies are happy and oblivious to the fact that their tanks are located in the Arctic Circle. ~Kai > bill 1433 wrote: > > Hi Kai! >  > I went full circle and now use or listen and watch 28 WBRE! >  > Now it's not always good news weather-wise, but at least it's the truth. > Started about a month ago when our "Joe" gave a report of 1 to 3" in our area, with a temp of about 35 to 42------no biggie, right?  NOT! >  > We got 4 to 6 and then capped it off toward the early morning hours with a nice dose > of sleet and freezing rain, my favorite!  I won't even go out for the mail in that stuff! > Took a bad fall in that stuff last January and sometime my left arm still gives me "fits" from it.  I think alot of this is my own fault, last year got a new very heavy duty snow blower (my luck) in case you don't know it--------------------------you can not use a snow blower for sleet and freezing rain! >  > If it can go wrong, it will happen to Bill------trust me! >  > Bill > > Kai wrote: > > Ugh...  I really don't mind snow but this sloppy slushy ice is awful! > > Ya think if we placed orders for better weather with Snedecker or Clarkie, we'd actually get it??? > ~Kai > > > > > bill 1433 wrote: > > > > Welcome to the Land Of Snow, Sleet and of course, Freezing Rain! > >  > > Bill > > > > > > > > Kai wrote: > > > > > > Northeast PA?  Where are you?  I'm next to Mount Pocono. > > ~Kai > > > > > > > > > bill 1433 wrote: > > > > > > Hi Lainey, > > >  > > > I can only offer you this, if you lived in Northeastern Pennsylvania, you would NOT > > > have a Blue Ram fry problem! > > >  ------------------------------------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the home page.  Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com to receive the digest, which includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com for the No E-Mail option where you will still be able to read messages on the group and post replies. Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com to receive individual e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 45170	From: pam andress	Date: 12/14/2009
Subject: Re: Blue rams hatching!

Do it Amber! Pam > Wow, thought I had a lot of tanks ;) LOL. > I have 2 x 55 gallons, 2 x 10 gallons, and a 125 gallon, with a spare 10 > gallon sitting empty ready for "just in case". I also have a hex sitting > at my parents house with a plant sitting in it (still holds water but I > can't get my parents to give it back to me, LOL). I'm tempted to go over > one day and just get the tank and leave the plant sitting on the table > and see how long it takes them to notice, LOL. > > Amber > > pam andress wrote: > > > > > > Only to a point. You have to have extras waiting just in case you need > > another one at the last moment. OR A total fish room with lots of > > tanks in that. OR ;) > > > > I have 9 set up at the moment. I always say at the moment, because > > that can change daily. lol > > > > If I could afford the electricty, I would have lots more!!! I want a > > 125 and a few more 55's wouldn't be bad lol, and I have 7 not up at > > the moment. > > > > Pam > > > > > > I thought six qualified me for MTS:( > > > > Lainey > > > > ONLY SIX, Lainey? How have you escaped contracting MTS > > (Multi-Tank-Syndrome) for this long? < g >. You're way behind in > > your "necessary" allotment of > > tanks (LOL). I wouldn't want to tell you how may I have. Many of us > > caught up fully by this hobby find that no matter how many tanks we > > have, we > > > > NEVER have enough! Ray > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > > > > ------------------------------------ > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. > ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> > PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- > <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. > > If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the home page. > > Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com to receive the digest, which includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email > > Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com for the No E-Mail option where you will still be able to read messages on the group and post replies. > > Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com to receive individual e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 45171	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 12/14/2009
Subject: Re: Blue rams hatching!

Lainey, I know both clubs. Both have salt members, but are primarily freshwater clubs. First, the Pioneer Valley Aquarium Society: I note that a speaker schedule is not available on their site, http://www.pvas.net, however, they do have a contact form that you can use to find out. Their next meeting is in January, the first Tuesday at, as someone has already mentioned, the Springfield Science Museum, at 7 P.M. It appears that the Exotic Fish Society of Hartford does not currently have a web site. If you go to this URL, http://www.tfhdigital.com/tfh/200901/?pg=120, you will find contact information for the club. Hmm, it appears they have changed their name. I do recall hearing something about that. Not much in the way of salt action over the next few months--this month is the Christmas party, next month is the planted aquarium, and February will be about discus. The site I got from the NEC site is http://www.ghasct.org/. Then, of course, there is the NEC the last weekend in February. Go to http://www.northeastcouncil.org/convention/ for more information on that event. The NEC is not a club, but an umbrella organization. This is the event of the year for many people. Ray was there for a while on the Saturday of the event last year, but we never happened to be in the same place at the same time to have a chat. There are a few marine clubs in New England, but I cannot say I have any real familiarity with then, since most of them came after I had left the area. \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Lainey Alexander Sent: Monday, December 14, 2009 11:11 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Blue rams hatching! Ray, This is fantastic information. Thank you so much! I have a couple of questions. Do these clubs/societies specialize in fresh or salt as well? My friend John does salt, and it would be much more fun and easier for me if he would come too, but not sure I could make it happen with only fresh... When they hold auctions, can you explain how the fish are kept? Would they be in bags? How would I "present" the ram babies? BTW I haven't turned on my tank lights yet but so far all I can tell is the rock cavity is empty. They may be gone already. But I could not bring myself to siphon them out of the rock last night in the dark when they were still in there, so I guess this is how it had to go for now. Another point I realized not in their favor is that the gupps like to hover on the water surface, and the rummies never go up there, so that's probably why the gupps made it. Either way, these society meetings sound very promising. Thanks again, Lainey http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com On Dec 14, 2009, at 4:24 AM, sevenspringss@... wrote: > Lainey, Of course, you could just let nature take its course in > your 37 > gallon tank and see how many fry make it. By adding some cover for > them, like > broken clay flowerpot sides laid flat with the arch creating caves > and/or > some dense plants like Java Fern or Najas, some will stand a better > chance of > surviving. You must remember, guppy fry are about 10 times the size of > Dwarf Cichlid fry, so these guys are at much greater risk being the > much > smaller size that they are. > > Shipping fish is not difficult during proper weather conditions > when the > weather is warmer. There are heat packs available also, for colder > weather, > and while you'll need to take a few months to grow these out as > juveniles, > I'd just like to add that it's not adviseable to ship fish even > with heat pack > when the weather here up north remains much below freezing -- > unless you're > shipping by direct air freight from airport to airport for pick up > there. > > Since you're in western Massachusetts, I'd strongly advise you to > look into > attending (perhaps joining) the Pioneer Valley Aquarium Society, > especially > since this may be an outlet for some of your Rams. They meet on the > first > Tuesday of the month (January 5th, 2010 -- next meeting) at 7:00 PM > -- at > the Springfield Science Museum. Further info can be obtained at their > website: < www.pvas.net >. They will be holding a giant fish > auction (no, the fish > are normal size -- LOL) at the Chicopee Elks Hall (Chicopee, Mass.) on > February 14, 2010. Doors open at 9:30 AM (auction starts at 11:00 > AM), so > there's another place to sell some of your fish. Get there early if > you're > bringing fish to sell. While I understand they will not be full > size, many > hobbyists prefer buying a bag of six or so juveniles to raise in > their water. > > Additionally, since you're also not too far from the Hartford, > Connecticut > area, you ought to look into attending the annual NEC (North East > Council -- > of Aquarium Societies) on the weekend of February 26 through 28, > 2010, this > year being held at the Crown Plaza Hotel in Cromwell, CT. They hold > a hugh > fish auction on the third day (Sunday, 2/28/10) of the event. This > would > be another outlet for your fish. Website address: < > www.northeastcouncil.org > >. At least two of the moderators here will be at this event, > including > myself. > > Also, in the Hartford area is the Greater Hartford Aquarium Society (< > www.ghasct.org >), which meets on the 4th Tuesday of the month at > the Lutz > Children's Museum, Manchester, CT. Many of the clubs hold monthly > fish auctions > as part of their meetings, albeit on a smaller scale. Here's yet > another > outlet for your fish, as well as a good source of quality home- > grown fish > being brought in by the other members. I'm sure that once you became > established in these organizations, you would have no trouble at > all with other > hobbyists wanting to come to your place to pick up fish, too. Ray >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 45172	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 12/14/2009
Subject: Re: Blue rams hatching!

Lainey, With regard to auctioning your guppies, yes, someone will buy them. However the price you get may not be what you would like to see, but that is an auction. The monthly auctions at most clubs generally do not bring very high prices. If you want action, take them to a club's big auction event. There will be more people and higher prices. For the best prices, the NEC auction is probably the one to do. People from all over, and, sometimes, spectacular prices on bags of fish. \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Lainey Alexander Sent: Monday, December 14, 2009 2:25 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Blue rams hatching! Thanks, Ray - I have a few more questions: I do have moon lights on the 37g plus a standup lamp with 75w incandescent nearby that I use for all the tanks and the finches as a night light. Still, the cave cavity was very dark. Do you think the light I describe would be enough? I'm not loving the option of either moving out the rock (in the future if they ever spawn again) or siphoning the wrigglers. Do you think the parents will get better at not eating the babies in the future, or if they did it once, they'll probably always do it? I realize that the seven rummies may have eaten the fry, but since I can't find even one, and the parents are acting like nothing is going on, and there are no fry in the filter, I think you're probably right it was the parents. With my finches, they get better at breeding as time goes by, so wondering if the rams might do this too? Otherwise, I would probably want to set up the rams in their own tank - ugh? Finally, if I went to one of these local auctions, do you think anyone would be interested in some blue grass guppy juveniles that I bred from stock I bought through Frank Schwab of guppyalternative? Thank you again, Lainey http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com On Dec 14, 2009, at 12:44 PM, sevenspringss@... wrote: > > > Hi Lainey, Unfortunately for your friend John, most clubs here in the > northeast are pretty much freshwater clubs for the most part, > except for NEC > member-club, Brooklyn Aquarium Society. I know thats way too far > for you to > come just for a meeting, though. Besides, while such a club may fit > right in > with your friend's interests some months, you may feel left out, as > they > alternate monthly meeting with having a freshwater themed night one > month and a > saltwater themed night the next month. I don't believe there is > that much > interest in marine aquariums within the New England clubs. > > Yes, when they hold these fish auctions, almost all fish would be > presented > in plastic fish bags, just as you'd buy them from the store. Double > bags > are used to ensure against leakage, and one bag is inverted into > the other -- > again, to help ensure against leakage. Occasionally, a very large > fish may > be submitted in a 5 gallon bucket (w/lid), that goes with the > purchase. If > you were shipping fish, you would also double-bag them, inverting > one into > the other. Such fish would arrive in better shape, and be more > assured of > arriving alive if you could arrange for filling these bags with > oxygen, by > your local fish store -- if they'd be so accomodating to you -- > when shipping. > Oxygen is not needed for bagging up fish for the one day that > they're at > an auction. If oxygen can't be obtained for shipping, just make > sure to pack > the fish lightly, giving them a bit more room per bag (or use > larger bags). > These bags, whether filled with air or O2, should ideally be filled > 1/3 > with water and 2/3 with either air or O2. Double rubber bands are a > good idea > too, in case one decides to break. For smaller fish, be sure to tie > (or > tape) the bottom corners of the bags when bagging up smaller fish. > this will > prevent them from getting caught in these corners and possibly > dying as a > result. Action fish bags also need to be marked with the number of > fish > contained and the species -- and quite often, depending upon the > club, at least > your initials. Most clubs have a set of rules available just for fish > auctions. > > Since you don't see any eggs or fry on the rock this morning, the > parents > may have eaten them, or they may have moved them. Their actions > (and any new > location they're residing in) will tell you if they're still > guarding their > fry. From what you're saying, you apparently left the fish > completely in > the dark last night -- and I presume every night, as a matter of > regular > routine. Perhaps I should have included this following advise, but > just didn't > think of it as part of what was needed in attending to them, as > it's just > automatic for me. When breeding most Cichlids. especially substrate > spawners, > it's best to leave a small night light on, which would tend to > prevent this > sudden light - dark - light stimuli difference which may otherwise > cause > new pairs to temporarily lose ("forget") attention in the fact that > they are > tending fry, when complete darkness interupts this portion of this > breeding > cycle. The sudden new awareness the next day with renewed daylight may > occasionally result in one or both of these new breeders not > recognizing these > eggs as there own -- only because the visual stimulation of seeing > them has > been removed for a good period of hours. I recommend a small night- > light for > any aquarium anyway, as it will prevent the possibility of fish > jumping > during the night. Even if the aquarium may be well-covered, there's > still the > possibility that fish may injure themselves when jumping -- and > they often > will when bumping into driftwood or having another fish bumping > into them. > Some of the more expensive aquarium hoods have "moon- lights" built > into them > for this purpose, but any small room light (even if it's a 7 watt > refrigerator bulb) will ensure that the fish won't "go bump in the > night." > > If you were to syphon the fry out though, that would have been the > best > time to do it -- just before lights out. I would add, if you > planned to just > remove the rock (with eggs) in the future, it's much less stressful > for the > fish if you replace that rock immediately with one very similar > one. They > will then not realize that this first rock (with eggs) was removed -- > especially if you do this just before supplying them with only > their night light at > that time of the evening. > > Most Tetras inhabit the lower third of the aquarium, whereas Danios > inhabit > from the upper third, up to just under the surface, for the most part. > These Celestial Pearl Danios are small enough for the Ram parents > to easily > control, anyhow -- but the larger Rummy-Nose pose more of a danger > to the fry, > especially if there's a larger number of these Tetras in your > school. Ray >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 45173	From: Lainey Alexander	Date: 12/14/2009
Subject: Purple grass guppies

Hi Amber and Everyone - I have been dreaming of purple grass guppies for some time now. Does anyone know anyone who raises them? I was even going to import some from Singapore, but then I read it can be 28 days the poor things are in transport. I'm not sure I even believe that, but surely someone is breeding these in the US? Thanks, Lainey http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com On Dec 14, 2009, at 6:09 PM, Amber Berglund wrote: > > Also I don't see why people wouldn't want some of your blue grass > guppy's I think they're pretty myself, now if they were purple I'd be > telling you to send me some (not asking, LOL). ;) > > Amber > > Lainey Alexander wrote: > > Thanks, Ray - > > > > I have a few more questions: > > > > I do have moon lights on the 37g plus a standup lamp with 75w > > incandescent nearby that I use for all the tanks and the finches > as a > > night light. Still, the cave cavity was very dark. Do you think the > > light I describe would be enough? > > > > I'm not loving the option of either moving out the rock (in the > > future if they ever spawn again) or siphoning the wrigglers. Do you > > think the parents will get better at not eating the babies in the > > future, or if they did it once, they'll probably always do it? I > > realize that the seven rummies may have eaten the fry, but since I > > can't find even one, and the parents are acting like nothing is > going > > on, and there are no fry in the filter, I think you're probably > right > > it was the parents. With my finches, they get better at breeding as > > time goes by, so wondering if the rams might do this too? > > > > Otherwise, I would probably want to set up the rams in their own > tank > > - ugh? > > > > Finally, if I went to one of these local auctions, do you think > > anyone would be interested in some blue grass guppy juveniles that I > > bred from stock I bought through Frank Schwab of guppyalternative? > > > > Thank you again, > > > > Lainey > > http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com > > > > On Dec 14, 2009, at 12:44 PM, sevenspringss@... wrote: > > > > > >> Hi Lainey, Unfortunately for your friend John, most clubs here > in the > >> northeast are pretty much freshwater clubs for the most part, > >> except for NEC > >> member-club, Brooklyn Aquarium Society. I know thats way too far > >> for you to > >> come just for a meeting, though. Besides, while such a club may fit > >> right in > >> with your friend's interests some months, you may feel left out, as > >> they > >> alternate monthly meeting with having a freshwater themed night one > >> month and a > >> saltwater themed night the next month. I don't believe there is > >> that much > >> interest in marine aquariums within the New England clubs. > >> > >> Yes, when they hold these fish auctions, almost all fish would be > >> presented > >> in plastic fish bags, just as you'd buy them from the store. Double > >> bags > >> are used to ensure against leakage, and one bag is inverted into > >> the other -- > >> again, to help ensure against leakage. Occasionally, a very large > >> fish may > >> be submitted in a 5 gallon bucket (w/lid), that goes with the > >> purchase. If > >> you were shipping fish, you would also double-bag them, inverting > >> one into > >> the other. Such fish would arrive in better shape, and be more > >> assured of > >> arriving alive if you could arrange for filling these bags with > >> oxygen, by > >> your local fish store -- if they'd be so accomodating to you -- > >> when shipping. > >> Oxygen is not needed for bagging up fish for the one day that > >> they're at > >> an auction. If oxygen can't be obtained for shipping, just make > >> sure to pack > >> the fish lightly, giving them a bit more room per bag (or use > >> larger bags). > >> These bags, whether filled with air or O2, should ideally be filled > >> 1/3 > >> with water and 2/3 with either air or O2. Double rubber bands are a > >> good idea > >> too, in case one decides to break. For smaller fish, be sure to tie > >> (or > >> tape) the bottom corners of the bags when bagging up smaller fish. > >> this will > >> prevent them from getting caught in these corners and possibly > >> dying as a > >> result. Action fish bags also need to be marked with the number of > >> fish > >> contained and the species -- and quite often, depending upon the > >> club, at least > >> your initials. Most clubs have a set of rules available just for > fish > >> auctions. > >> > >> Since you don't see any eggs or fry on the rock this morning, the > >> parents > >> may have eaten them, or they may have moved them. Their actions > >> (and any new > >> location they're residing in) will tell you if they're still > >> guarding their > >> fry. From what you're saying, you apparently left the fish > >> completely in > >> the dark last night -- and I presume every night, as a matter of > >> regular > >> routine. Perhaps I should have included this following advise, but > >> just didn't > >> think of it as part of what was needed in attending to them, as > >> it's just > >> automatic for me. When breeding most Cichlids. especially substrate > >> spawners, > >> it's best to leave a small night light on, which would tend to > >> prevent this > >> sudden light - dark - light stimuli difference which may otherwise > >> cause > >> new pairs to temporarily lose ("forget") attention in the fact that > >> they are > >> tending fry, when complete darkness interupts this portion of this > >> breeding > >> cycle. The sudden new awareness the next day with renewed > daylight may > >> occasionally result in one or both of these new breeders not > >> recognizing these > >> eggs as there own -- only because the visual stimulation of seeing > >> them has > >> been removed for a good period of hours. I recommend a small night- > >> light for > >> any aquarium anyway, as it will prevent the possibility of fish > >> jumping > >> during the night. Even if the aquarium may be well-covered, there's > >> still the > >> possibility that fish may injure themselves when jumping -- and > >> they often > >> will when bumping into driftwood or having another fish bumping > >> into them. > >> Some of the more expensive aquarium hoods have "moon- lights" built > >> into them > >> for this purpose, but any small room light (even if it's a 7 watt > >> refrigerator bulb) will ensure that the fish won't "go bump in the > >> night." > >> > >> If you were to syphon the fry out though, that would have been the > >> best > >> time to do it -- just before lights out. I would add, if you > >> planned to just > >> remove the rock (with eggs) in the future, it's much less stressful > >> for the > >> fish if you replace that rock immediately with one very similar > >> one. They > >> will then not realize that this first rock (with eggs) was > removed -- > >> especially if you do this just before supplying them with only > >> their night light at > >> that time of the evening. > >> > >> Most Tetras inhabit the lower third of the aquarium, whereas Danios > >> inhabit > >> from the upper third, up to just under the surface, for the most > part. > >> These Celestial Pearl Danios are small enough for the Ram parents > >> to easily > >> control, anyhow -- but the larger Rummy-Nose pose more of a danger > >> to the fry, > >> especially if there's a larger number of these Tetras in your > >> school. Ray > >> > >> </HTML> > >> > >> > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > > > > > ------------------------------------ > > > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, > Thank You. > > ���`�.��.><((((�>.���`�.��.���`�.�><((((�> �.���`�.�. , .���`�..>< > ((((�> > > PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT > important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original > message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old > subject)" <- > > <�((((><.���`�.��.���`�.�<�((((><�.���`�.�. , .���`�..<�((((><� > ��`�.��. > > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. > > > > If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of > unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by clicking on > "Edit My Membership" on the home page. > > > > Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com to receive the > digest, which includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email > > > > Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com for the No E-Mail > option where you will still be able to read messages on the group > and post replies. > > > > Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com to receive individual > e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 45174	From: Lainey Alexander	Date: 12/14/2009
Subject: Re: Blue rams hatching!

Thanks, Steve, Very helpful information for me...I really like the sounds of the NEC auction on Sunday! Lainey http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com On Dec 14, 2009, at 8:21 PM, Steve Szabo wrote: > Lainey, > > I know both clubs. Both have salt members, but are primarily > freshwater > clubs. First, the Pioneer Valley Aquarium Society: I note that a > speaker > schedule is not available on their site, http://www.pvas.net, > however, they > do have a contact form that you can use to find out. Their next > meeting is > in January, the first Tuesday at, as someone has already mentioned, > the > Springfield Science Museum, at 7 P.M. > > It appears that the Exotic Fish Society of Hartford does not > currently have > a web site. If you go to this URL, > http://www.tfhdigital.com/tfh/200901/?pg=120, you will find contact > information for the club. Hmm, it appears they have changed their > name. I do > recall hearing something about that. Not much in the way of salt > action over > the next few months--this month is the Christmas party, next month > is the > planted aquarium, and February will be about discus. The site I got > from the > NEC site is http://www.ghasct.org/. > > Then, of course, there is the NEC the last weekend in February. Go to > http://www.northeastcouncil.org/convention/ for more information on > that > event. The NEC is not a club, but an umbrella organization. This is > the > event of the year for many people. Ray was there for a while on the > Saturday > of the event last year, but we never happened to be in the same > place at the > same time to have a chat. > > There are a few marine clubs in New England, but I cannot say I > have any > real familiarity with then, since most of them came after I had > left the > area. > > \\Steve// > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On > Behalf Of Lainey Alexander > Sent: Monday, December 14, 2009 11:11 AM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Blue rams hatching! > > Ray, > > This is fantastic information. Thank you so much! > > I have a couple of questions. > > Do these clubs/societies specialize in fresh or salt as well? My > friend John does salt, and it would be much more fun and easier for > me if he would come too, but not sure I could make it happen with > only fresh... > > When they hold auctions, can you explain how the fish are kept? Would > they be in bags? How would I "present" the ram babies? > > BTW I haven't turned on my tank lights yet but so far all I can tell > is the rock cavity is empty. They may be gone already. But I could > not bring myself to siphon them out of the rock last night in the > dark when they were still in there, so I guess this is how it had to > go for now. Another point I realized not in their favor is that the > gupps like to hover on the water surface, and the rummies never go up > there, so that's probably why the gupps made it. > > Either way, these society meetings sound very promising. > > Thanks again, > > Lainey > http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com > > On Dec 14, 2009, at 4:24 AM, sevenspringss@... wrote: > > > Lainey, Of course, you could just let nature take its course in > > your 37 > > gallon tank and see how many fry make it. By adding some cover for > > them, like > > broken clay flowerpot sides laid flat with the arch creating caves > > and/or > > some dense plants like Java Fern or Najas, some will stand a better > > chance of > > surviving. You must remember, guppy fry are about 10 times the > size of > > Dwarf Cichlid fry, so these guys are at much greater risk being the > > much > > smaller size that they are. > > > > Shipping fish is not difficult during proper weather conditions > > when the > > weather is warmer. There are heat packs available also, for colder > > weather, > > and while you'll need to take a few months to grow these out as > > juveniles, > > I'd just like to add that it's not adviseable to ship fish even > > with heat pack > > when the weather here up north remains much below freezing -- > > unless you're > > shipping by direct air freight from airport to airport for pick up > > there. > > > > Since you're in western Massachusetts, I'd strongly advise you to > > look into > > attending (perhaps joining) the Pioneer Valley Aquarium Society, > > especially > > since this may be an outlet for some of your Rams. They meet on the > > first > > Tuesday of the month (January 5th, 2010 -- next meeting) at 7:00 PM > > -- at > > the Springfield Science Museum. Further info can be obtained at > their > > website: < www.pvas.net >. They will be holding a giant fish > > auction (no, the fish > > are normal size -- LOL) at the Chicopee Elks Hall (Chicopee, > Mass.) on > > February 14, 2010. Doors open at 9:30 AM (auction starts at 11:00 > > AM), so > > there's another place to sell some of your fish. Get there early if > > you're > > bringing fish to sell. While I understand they will not be full > > size, many > > hobbyists prefer buying a bag of six or so juveniles to raise in > > their water. > > > > Additionally, since you're also not too far from the Hartford, > > Connecticut > > area, you ought to look into attending the annual NEC (North East > > Council -- > > of Aquarium Societies) on the weekend of February 26 through 28, > > 2010, this > > year being held at the Crown Plaza Hotel in Cromwell, CT. They hold > > a hugh > > fish auction on the third day (Sunday, 2/28/10) of the event. This > > would > > be another outlet for your fish. Website address: < > > www.northeastcouncil.org > > >. At least two of the moderators here will be at this event, > > including > > myself. > > > > Also, in the Hartford area is the Greater Hartford Aquarium > Society (< > > www.ghasct.org >), which meets on the 4th Tuesday of the month at > > the Lutz > > Children's Museum, Manchester, CT. Many of the clubs hold monthly > > fish auctions > > as part of their meetings, albeit on a smaller scale. Here's yet > > another > > outlet for your fish, as well as a good source of quality home- > > grown fish > > being brought in by the other members. I'm sure that once you became > > established in these organizations, you would have no trouble at > > all with other > > hobbyists wanting to come to your place to pick up fish, too. Ray > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 45175	From: Lainey Alexander	Date: 12/14/2009
Subject: Re: Blue rams hatching!

I am not concerned with prices, I am really more concerned with good homes and no pet stores! Lainey http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com On Dec 14, 2009, at 8:36 PM, Steve Szabo wrote: > Lainey, > > With regard to auctioning your guppies, yes, someone will buy them. > However > the price you get may not be what you would like to see, but that > is an > auction. The monthly auctions at most clubs generally do not bring > very high > prices. If you want action, take them to a club's big auction > event. There > will be more people and higher prices. For the best prices, the NEC > auction > is probably the one to do. People from all over, and, sometimes, > spectacular > prices on bags of fish. > > \\Steve// > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On > Behalf Of Lainey Alexander > Sent: Monday, December 14, 2009 2:25 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Blue rams hatching! > > Thanks, Ray - > > I have a few more questions: > > I do have moon lights on the 37g plus a standup lamp with 75w > incandescent nearby that I use for all the tanks and the finches as a > night light. Still, the cave cavity was very dark. Do you think the > light I describe would be enough? > > I'm not loving the option of either moving out the rock (in the > future if they ever spawn again) or siphoning the wrigglers. Do you > think the parents will get better at not eating the babies in the > future, or if they did it once, they'll probably always do it? I > realize that the seven rummies may have eaten the fry, but since I > can't find even one, and the parents are acting like nothing is going > on, and there are no fry in the filter, I think you're probably right > it was the parents. With my finches, they get better at breeding as > time goes by, so wondering if the rams might do this too? > > Otherwise, I would probably want to set up the rams in their own tank > - ugh? > > Finally, if I went to one of these local auctions, do you think > anyone would be interested in some blue grass guppy juveniles that I > bred from stock I bought through Frank Schwab of guppyalternative? > > Thank you again, > > Lainey > http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com > > On Dec 14, 2009, at 12:44 PM, sevenspringss@... wrote: > > > > > > > Hi Lainey, Unfortunately for your friend John, most clubs here in > the > > northeast are pretty much freshwater clubs for the most part, > > except for NEC > > member-club, Brooklyn Aquarium Society. I know thats way too far > > for you to > > come just for a meeting, though. Besides, while such a club may fit > > right in > > with your friend's interests some months, you may feel left out, as > > they > > alternate monthly meeting with having a freshwater themed night one > > month and a > > saltwater themed night the next month. I don't believe there is > > that much > > interest in marine aquariums within the New England clubs. > > > > Yes, when they hold these fish auctions, almost all fish would be > > presented > > in plastic fish bags, just as you'd buy them from the store. Double > > bags > > are used to ensure against leakage, and one bag is inverted into > > the other -- > > again, to help ensure against leakage. Occasionally, a very large > > fish may > > be submitted in a 5 gallon bucket (w/lid), that goes with the > > purchase. If > > you were shipping fish, you would also double-bag them, inverting > > one into > > the other. Such fish would arrive in better shape, and be more > > assured of > > arriving alive if you could arrange for filling these bags with > > oxygen, by > > your local fish store -- if they'd be so accomodating to you -- > > when shipping. > > Oxygen is not needed for bagging up fish for the one day that > > they're at > > an auction. If oxygen can't be obtained for shipping, just make > > sure to pack > > the fish lightly, giving them a bit more room per bag (or use > > larger bags). > > These bags, whether filled with air or O2, should ideally be filled > > 1/3 > > with water and 2/3 with either air or O2. Double rubber bands are a > > good idea > > too, in case one decides to break. For smaller fish, be sure to tie > > (or > > tape) the bottom corners of the bags when bagging up smaller fish. > > this will > > prevent them from getting caught in these corners and possibly > > dying as a > > result. Action fish bags also need to be marked with the number of > > fish > > contained and the species -- and quite often, depending upon the > > club, at least > > your initials. Most clubs have a set of rules available just for > fish > > auctions. > > > > Since you don't see any eggs or fry on the rock this morning, the > > parents > > may have eaten them, or they may have moved them. Their actions > > (and any new > > location they're residing in) will tell you if they're still > > guarding their > > fry. From what you're saying, you apparently left the fish > > completely in > > the dark last night -- and I presume every night, as a matter of > > regular > > routine. Perhaps I should have included this following advise, but > > just didn't > > think of it as part of what was needed in attending to them, as > > it's just > > automatic for me. When breeding most Cichlids. especially substrate > > spawners, > > it's best to leave a small night light on, which would tend to > > prevent this > > sudden light - dark - light stimuli difference which may otherwise > > cause > > new pairs to temporarily lose ("forget") attention in the fact that > > they are > > tending fry, when complete darkness interupts this portion of this > > breeding > > cycle. The sudden new awareness the next day with renewed > daylight may > > occasionally result in one or both of these new breeders not > > recognizing these > > eggs as there own -- only because the visual stimulation of seeing > > them has > > been removed for a good period of hours. I recommend a small night- > > light for > > any aquarium anyway, as it will prevent the possibility of fish > > jumping > > during the night. Even if the aquarium may be well-covered, there's > > still the > > possibility that fish may injure themselves when jumping -- and > > they often > > will when bumping into driftwood or having another fish bumping > > into them. > > Some of the more expensive aquarium hoods have "moon- lights" built > > into them > > for this purpose, but any small room light (even if it's a 7 watt > > refrigerator bulb) will ensure that the fish won't "go bump in the > > night." > > > > If you were to syphon the fry out though, that would have been the > > best > > time to do it -- just before lights out. I would add, if you > > planned to just > > remove the rock (with eggs) in the future, it's much less stressful > > for the > > fish if you replace that rock immediately with one very similar > > one. They > > will then not realize that this first rock (with eggs) was > removed -- > > especially if you do this just before supplying them with only > > their night light at > > that time of the evening. > > > > Most Tetras inhabit the lower third of the aquarium, whereas Danios > > inhabit > > from the upper third, up to just under the surface, for the most > part. > > These Celestial Pearl Danios are small enough for the Ram parents > > to easily > > control, anyhow -- but the larger Rummy-Nose pose more of a danger > > to the fry, > > especially if there's a larger number of these Tetras in your > > school. Ray > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 45176	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 12/14/2009
Subject: Re: rotting anubias

What kind of Anubias? Anubias is the Genus, not the species. If you're not sure, look over this list of around 20 Plant Profiles found with a Database search on PlantGeek.net. http://www.plantgeek.net/plantguide_asearch.php?common_name_opt=0&common_nam e=&scientific_name_opt=0&scientific_name=Anubias®ion_name_opt=0®ion_na me=&description_name_opt=0&description_name=&plant_light_id=0&plant_placemen t_id=0&plant_difficulty_id=0&plant_type_id=0&plant_brackish=0&plant_pic=0&pl ant_sortorder=0&mode=advanced If the link breaks, go to http://www.plantgeek.net/plantguide_asearch.php and in the second line, where it says, "Scientific Name Includes" and type "Anubias" in the field. Then scroll down and click the Search button for the above results. What kind of rock? Were both plants attached to the same kind of rocks? I'm asking this, wondering if one of the rocks might be leaching something that doesn't harm the plants when mixed in the water column but possibly does hurt the plant when it's attached to the rock so it gets a higher dosing of the leaching compound (hardness, etc.). How long did you have them? Did they all receive similar lighting? Without knowing more info and if these plants are still kind of new, I would suspect that the one plant was possibly too distressed from the seller or during shipping and just never recovered unless it was doing fine for several months and only recently deteriorated. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of erikaandnewton Sent: Monday, December 14, 2009 6:00 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] rotting anubias so i noticed today that one of my anubias in my newt tank was rotten. this one was attatched to a rock with thread the one i bought that was attached to drift wood seems healthy as is the one i attached to a rock with a rubber band. since i just got two more i want to make sure i dont kill them. if i had tied the thread too tight would this cause rot? is there a better method to use? erika newark de usa

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 45177	From: erikaandnewton	Date: 12/15/2009
Subject: Re: rotting anubias

<< What kind of rock? Were both plants attached to the same kind of rocks? I'm asking this, wondering if one of the rocks might be leaching something that doesn't harm the plants when mixed in the water column but possibly does hurt the plant when it's attached to the rock so it gets a higher dosing of the leaching compound (hardness, etc.).>> they are attached to the same kind of rock. not sure what kind exactly, store was out of lava rock which was what he recommended but since i didnt feel like going elsewhere i bought the next cheapest one he had. its from feller stone, pink, roughish. > > How long did you have them? these are newish. got them when i set up the 75 gallon what 2 months ago? > > Did they all receive similar lighting? yes the lighting is the same, theyre in the same tank. stressed i can deal with. having to be careful how tight i tie them might be another story. hard to get those suckers to stay put! erika newark de usa

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 45178	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 12/15/2009
Subject: Re: rotting anubias

Even if tied tightly, it seems part of the plant would have survived/thrived. Since the entire plant appears to be dying, then it was probably a bad plant to start with. Did you figure out which species you have? I forget what other things I asked since you didn't include the previous reply in your reply.... but look over my previous reply to see if any other questions are important. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of erikaandnewton Sent: Tuesday, December 15, 2009 6:04 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: rotting anubias << What kind of rock? Were both plants attached to the same kind of rocks? I'm asking this, wondering if one of the rocks might be leaching something that doesn't harm the plants when mixed in the water column but possibly does hurt the plant when it's attached to the rock so it gets a higher dosing of the leaching compound (hardness, etc.).>> they are attached to the same kind of rock. not sure what kind exactly, store was out of lava rock which was what he recommended but since i didnt feel like going elsewhere i bought the next cheapest one he had. its from feller stone, pink, roughish. > > How long did you have them? these are newish. got them when i set up the 75 gallon what 2 months ago? > > Did they all receive similar lighting? yes the lighting is the same, theyre in the same tank. stressed i can deal with. having to be careful how tight i tie them might be another story. hard to get those suckers to stay put! erika newark de usa ------------------------------------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 45179	From: amejia1976	Date: 12/16/2009
Subject: Re: Planted Aquarium

Hello, The netting worked as sugested by keeping the fish from going into the overflow box. Unfotunatelly, when they got close to it they were pulled into the net, by the time I noticed them it was too late and had perished. As for the Shrimp I was trying to be funny. I know better now. The shrimp were fine but many of them did not make it either. Of the 10 there are only 4 alive. All dead fish were removed. Dead shrimp were pretty decomposed by the time I noticed; which I hear is normal with invertebrates and therefore did not remove. Now to the fry; there are 9 live tiny guppies - they were born over a week ago and seem to be doing just fine. I am thinking that since they were born in the tank the chances for survival are greater as it is the only environment they know and have not suffered any "travel/shipping trauma" Could this be correct? I think for the moment I am going to see how the guppies do. If all make it I might add some non feeder guppies and go from there before bying more expensie specimes. As recommended I purchased the biogen and will introduce it this weekend after the PWC. One question Lenny, is Prime what the instructions call a "buffer" for freshwater or is there something else I should get? I'm still looking for some 30w bulbs but I am also thinking it may be best to keep it simple while I learn stuff. Thanks all, --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@...> wrote: > > What do you mean by "All feeder guppies were sucked into netting..."? I > hope you meant none of them were. Also, what kind of activity did you see > that led you to believe the shrimp did not like each other? > > Yes, your guppies should breed like... well, guppies. You should be alarmed > if they aren't breeding like crazy. LOL If I was going to keep guppies, I > would keep the males and females segregated except for occasional mixing > when I wanted more. > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right > side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) > > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On > Behalf Of amejia1976 > Sent: Sunday, December 13, 2009 1:40 AM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Planted Aquarium > > So far so good - kinda > Test results have not changed > > 12/11/09 > pH @ 7.6 > Ammonia @ 0 > Nitrite @ 0 > Nitrate @ 10ppm > > All feeder guppies were sucked into netting and some of the shrimp did not > seem to like each other. On a happy note, seems one of the guppies was prego > and now I have a fry; 10 of them that I can count. I will take this to be a > good thing if they have made it 5 days so far. > > Thanks on the info on the Purigen, it definitelly seems like a great product > and what might be my salvation. Wish I could read the blog while @ work but > its content is blocked - ohh well, gives me something to do when... > > Today I will do a water change, hopefully this will not mess things up :)- > and I can keep posting good news. > > Thanks again ppl! > > Alex (btw- I am a guy. Someone refered to me as a she earlier :)) Then > again, I ahve been called worse. >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 45180	From: amejia1976	Date: 12/16/2009
Subject: Python No Spill Clean 'N Fill

So a friend of mine gave me this Python No Spill Clean 'N Fill http://www.drsfostersmith.com/product/prod_display.cfm?pcatid=3910 Which I am pretty sure from having tried it on my sink that it will help tremendously with PWC. Problem is, he used it on a saltwater setup and did not seem to clean it often. The tubing is all dirty and filled with either mold/algae or fish poop. The tube is over 25ft long so a liquid solution would be best. I know bleach pretty much kills anything. If use bleach, would I be able to use Seachem Prime to remove the chlorine from it? Budget is tight so I am not trying to put another hole in my pocket. Second, once cleaned and I begin using it, how can I keep it clean from one week to the next? Would regular/weekly use do the trick? Alex Semper Fi

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 45181	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 12/16/2009
Subject: Re: Planted Aquarium

Did you properly acclimate the fish/shrimp to your new tank? I know many stores just tell folks to float the bag, blah, blah, blah, but that is not always a proper way to acclimate, especially if the water parameters between the water they were in and the water they are going into is a LOT different. Knowing the water parameters of the water they were in and your tank's water would give us information to give you better guidance. If you did not acclimate them properly, then this could be the reason for your larger die off. Sometimes, for sensitive fish/critters and even for hardy fish/critters, if the water parameters are a lot different, acclimation could take several hours with having the critters in a holding tank and then setting up a drip line into the holding tank and slowly dripping water from the main tank into the holding tank to slowly acclimate the fish/critters to their new water. Have you watched the tank to see if live, healthy fish are actually getting sucked into/against the overflow box/screen? I've had some very heavily filtered tanks and I have NEVER seen a healthy fish get sucked against the intakes of any of my filter systems... EVER! Now, a sick or dead fish would certainly be more likely to end up against a filter intake but NOT a healthy fish. If you are seeing healthy fish get sucked up against/into the overflow screen, then we need to look at your filter system closer to see what is really happening and you may have to take additional safety precautions, such as sponge filter block in/around your intake, instead of or in addition to just the screen material. About the only way I could see a healthy fish getting caught into this trap would be if they were chasing floating food and followed it into the overflow box/screen??? If this is happening, then you may need to turn your filter off when feeding so the floating food stays on the surface until the fish eat it all (no more than five minutes or you may be feeding them too much). What "instructions" are you talking about? Prime is not a buffer, it is a dechlorinator product that also goes a step further and treats ammonia. It's OK to use on new tanks or when folks are stuck with cycling with fish... which I STRONGLY recommend folks DO NOT DO. Prime costs around 5X more than a normal basic dechlor product (like API's) so it's a waste of money when used under normal circumstances. I'm not sure anyone recommended using a buffer. Most of us would not recommend this, especially to someone who is not knowledgeable about water chemistry. I am, but I still would not use store bought buffer products. Who recommended "biogen" and what is it? I've never heard of "biogen" and a Google search shows it to be some kind of biotechnology company related to human drugs/research. I added "aquarium" to the search and still only found info about this same biotechnology company. OH WAIT... after reading the above where you asked about a "buffer" and then "biogen", are you talking about Purigen? I'm thinking yes, but I do not want to speculate. In either case, Prime is NOT a buffer. What are your water hardness levels for GH (General Hardness) and KH (Carbonate Hardness)? If you do not have these test kits, call your local water utility and ask them what the levels are when the water leaves their plant and if they have any testing stations closer to your home. Let us know these figures. I see from below, that your pH is 7.6, so you could have harder water... but pH is not a definite indicator of water hardness levels so you should still try to find out what yours are. If you have hard water, you probably will not need the "buffer" that is mentioned in the Purigen instructions. Another indicator of hard water is when the water evaporates, it leaves a white powdery chalky residue on every above the waterline in the tank. I do not use that "buffer" step when recharging my Purigen since I have moderately hard water. If you read in the instructions for Saltwater users, they do not need this "buffer" stage and the reason for this is that saltwater tanks have much harder water than most freshwater tanks. I tested my recharged Purigen in a bucket of my water without using the buffer and the Purigen did not affect my water's hardness levels and I've been using it this way for several years without a problem. For folks with softer water, they might have to use this "buffer" step in the recharge process but it could also just be a way of Seachem trying to separate folks from some of their money... possibly erring on the side of caution or possibly intentionally. Unfortunately, many fine companies in the fish product business come out with MANY products that simply are not needed and are sold to unsuspecting newbie's until the newbie learns better. I estimate that 95% of the bottled crap sold in pet stores is not needed by 95% of fish keepers.... but the stores still push this crap on people to add to their bottom lines. While we figure all the above out and presuming you bought Purigen, you will not have to worry about recharging it for quite a while anyhow so you can start using it now and can worry about the recharge process when you see it turning dark brown in several weeks to a month or two, depending on your water quality. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of amejia1976 Sent: Wednesday, December 16, 2009 12:44 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Planted Aquarium Hello, The netting worked as sugested by keeping the fish from going into the overflow box. Unfotunatelly, when they got close to it they were pulled into the net, by the time I noticed them it was too late and had perished. As for the Shrimp I was trying to be funny. I know better now. The shrimp were fine but many of them did not make it either. Of the 10 there are only 4 alive. All dead fish were removed. Dead shrimp were pretty decomposed by the time I noticed; which I hear is normal with invertebrates and therefore did not remove. Now to the fry; there are 9 live tiny guppies - they were born over a week ago and seem to be doing just fine. I am thinking that since they were born in the tank the chances for survival are greater as it is the only environment they know and have not suffered any "travel/shipping trauma" Could this be correct? I think for the moment I am going to see how the guppies do. If all make it I might add some non feeder guppies and go from there before bying more expensie specimes. As recommended I purchased the biogen and will introduce it this weekend after the PWC. One question Lenny, is Prime what the instructions call a "buffer" for freshwater or is there something else I should get? I'm still looking for some 30w bulbs but I am also thinking it may be best to keep it simple while I learn stuff. Thanks all, --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@...> wrote: > > What do you mean by "All feeder guppies were sucked into netting..."? > I hope you meant none of them were. Also, what kind of activity did > you see that led you to believe the shrimp did not like each other? > > Yes, your guppies should breed like... well, guppies. You should be > alarmed if they aren't breeding like crazy. LOL If I was going to > keep guppies, I would keep the males and females segregated except for > occasional mixing when I wanted more. > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles > referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically > under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) > > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] > On Behalf Of amejia1976 > Sent: Sunday, December 13, 2009 1:40 AM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Planted Aquarium > > So far so good - kinda > Test results have not changed > > 12/11/09 > pH @ 7.6 > Ammonia @ 0 > Nitrite @ 0 > Nitrate @ 10ppm > > All feeder guppies were sucked into netting and some of the shrimp did > not seem to like each other. On a happy note, seems one of the guppies > was prego and now I have a fry; 10 of them that I can count. I will > take this to be a good thing if they have made it 5 days so far. > > Thanks on the info on the Purigen, it definitelly seems like a great > product and what might be my salvation. Wish I could read the blog > while @ work but its content is blocked - ohh well, gives me something to do when... > > Today I will do a water change, hopefully this will not mess things up > :)- and I can keep posting good news. > > Thanks again ppl! > > Alex (btw- I am a guy. Someone refered to me as a she earlier :)) Then > again, I ahve been called worse.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 45182	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 12/16/2009
Subject: Re: Python No Spill Clean 'N Fill

Try just hooking it up and running your tap water through it for a while.. or just leave it curled up in your sink and let your tap water stay in the hose for a soak and then run it again to flush out the debris. It's a shame your friend didn't flush it out after each use. Actually, when used for both the siphoning/gravel vacuuming and then refilling on freshwater tanks, there should not be any debris left in the hose since the refill process would flush it out anyhow on a freshwater tank. Since your friend was using it on a saltwater tank, they didn't refill their tank from the tap (I'm sure they pre-mixed their saltwater and refilled using buckets) so they would have had to flush out the Python after each vacuuming/siphoning job by just running tap water through it to go down the drain. After I'm done with mine each week, I put it back on the siphon mode and run the tap water while I pick up the other end of the Python over my head and start curling it back up and the running tap water, in the siphon mode starts sucking any residual water, other than a few drops, out of the hose when I put it away. This results in some spotting inside the hose from my hard water but it's not an issue. I've never had any issues with mold/mildew/algae using my Python this way for several years. The good news is that, as far as I know, any common pathogens found in saltwater will not live in freshwater... and vice versa... so you shouldn't have any fear related to that. If you really want to err on the side of caution and sanitize the hoses, you could fill your sink with a 10% to 20% bleach solution and then soak the hose (just the hose... take off the fittings or at least remove the rubber washers inside the fittings). After the soak, flush it out good with tap water. Then refill the sink and add a dose of dechlor product to the water and re-soak the hose in the dechlor water solution. Then rinse hose again and put it back together. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of amejia1976 Sent: Wednesday, December 16, 2009 2:48 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Python No Spill Clean 'N Fill So a friend of mine gave me this Python No Spill Clean 'N Fill http://www.drsfostersmith.com/product/prod_display.cfm?pcatid=3910 Which I am pretty sure from having tried it on my sink that it will help tremendously with PWC. Problem is, he used it on a saltwater setup and did not seem to clean it often. The tubing is all dirty and filled with either mold/algae or fish poop. The tube is over 25ft long so a liquid solution would be best. I know bleach pretty much kills anything. If use bleach, would I be able to use Seachem Prime to remove the chlorine from it? Budget is tight so I am not trying to put another hole in my pocket. Second, once cleaned and I begin using it, how can I keep it clean from one week to the next? Would regular/weekly use do the trick? Alex Semper Fi

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 45183	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 12/16/2009
Subject: Re: Planted Aquarium

I asked him what his KH and GH was awhile back Lenny because his pH is fluctuating too much in a weeks time in his tests (read back in his posts and you will see what I mean). I'm pretty sure he doesn't have the test kits yet, but he should get them so we can tell him if he needs to start buffering his water. Amber Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > > Did you properly acclimate the fish/shrimp to your new tank? I know many > stores just tell folks to float the bag, blah, blah, blah, but that is not > always a proper way to acclimate, especially if the water parameters > between > the water they were in and the water they are going into is a LOT > different. > Knowing the water parameters of the water they were in and your tank's > water > would give us information to give you better guidance. If you did not > acclimate them properly, then this could be the reason for your larger die > off. Sometimes, for sensitive fish/critters and even for hardy > fish/critters, if the water parameters are a lot different, acclimation > could take several hours with having the critters in a holding tank > and then > setting up a drip line into the holding tank and slowly dripping water > from > the main tank into the holding tank to slowly acclimate the > fish/critters to > their new water. > > Have you watched the tank to see if live, healthy fish are actually > getting > sucked into/against the overflow box/screen? I've had some very heavily > filtered tanks and I have NEVER seen a healthy fish get sucked against the > intakes of any of my filter systems... EVER! Now, a sick or dead fish > would > certainly be more likely to end up against a filter intake but NOT a > healthy > fish. > > If you are seeing healthy fish get sucked up against/into the overflow > screen, then we need to look at your filter system closer to see what is > really happening and you may have to take additional safety precautions, > such as sponge filter block in/around your intake, instead of or in > addition > to just the screen material. About the only way I could see a healthy fish > getting caught into this trap would be if they were chasing floating food > and followed it into the overflow box/screen??? If this is happening, then > you may need to turn your filter off when feeding so the floating food > stays > on the surface until the fish eat it all (no more than five minutes or you > may be feeding them too much). > > What "instructions" are you talking about? Prime is not a buffer, it is a > dechlorinator product that also goes a step further and treats ammonia. > It's OK to use on new tanks or when folks are stuck with cycling with > fish... which I STRONGLY recommend folks DO NOT DO. Prime costs around 5X > more than a normal basic dechlor product (like API's) so it's a waste of > money when used under normal circumstances. I'm not sure anyone > recommended > using a buffer. Most of us would not recommend this, especially to someone > who is not knowledgeable about water chemistry. I am, but I still > would not > use store bought buffer products. > > Who recommended "biogen" and what is it? I've never heard of "biogen" > and a > Google search shows it to be some kind of biotechnology company related to > human drugs/research. I added "aquarium" to the search and still only > found > info about this same biotechnology company. > > OH WAIT... after reading the above where you asked about a "buffer" > and then > "biogen", are you talking about Purigen? I'm thinking yes, but I do not > want to speculate. In either case, Prime is NOT a buffer. What are your > water hardness levels for GH (General Hardness) and KH (Carbonate > Hardness)? > If you do not have these test kits, call your local water utility and ask > them what the levels are when the water leaves their plant and if they > have > any testing stations closer to your home. Let us know these figures. I see > from below, that your pH is 7.6, so you could have harder water... but > pH is > not a definite indicator of water hardness levels so you should still > try to > find out what yours are. If you have hard water, you probably will not > need > the "buffer" that is mentioned in the Purigen instructions. Another > indicator of hard water is when the water evaporates, it leaves a white > powdery chalky residue on every above the waterline in the tank. I do not > use that "buffer" step when recharging my Purigen since I have moderately > hard water. If you read in the instructions for Saltwater users, they do > not need this "buffer" stage and the reason for this is that saltwater > tanks > have much harder water than most freshwater tanks. I tested my recharged > Purigen in a bucket of my water without using the buffer and the > Purigen did > not affect my water's hardness levels and I've been using it this way for > several years without a problem. For folks with softer water, they might > have to use this "buffer" step in the recharge process but it could also > just be a way of Seachem trying to separate folks from some of their > money... possibly erring on the side of caution or possibly intentionally. > Unfortunately, many fine companies in the fish product business come out > with MANY products that simply are not needed and are sold to unsuspecting > newbie's until the newbie learns better. I estimate that 95% of the > bottled > crap sold in pet stores is not needed by 95% of fish keepers.... but the > stores still push this crap on people to add to their bottom lines. > > While we figure all the above out and presuming you bought Purigen, > you will > not have to worry about recharging it for quite a while anyhow so you can > start using it now and can worry about the recharge process when you > see it > turning dark brown in several weeks to a month or two, depending on your > water quality. > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right > side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On > Behalf Of amejia1976 > Sent: Wednesday, December 16, 2009 12:44 AM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Planted Aquarium > > Hello, > > The netting worked as sugested by keeping the fish from going into the > overflow box. Unfotunatelly, when they got close to it they were > pulled into > the net, by the time I noticed them it was too late and had perished. > > As for the Shrimp I was trying to be funny. I know better now. The shrimp > were fine but many of them did not make it either. Of the 10 there are > only > 4 alive. > > All dead fish were removed. Dead shrimp were pretty decomposed by the > time I > noticed; which I hear is normal with invertebrates and therefore did not > remove. > > Now to the fry; there are 9 live tiny guppies - they were born over a week > ago and seem to be doing just fine. I am thinking that since they were > born > in the tank the chances for survival are greater as it is the only > environment they know and have not suffered any "travel/shipping trauma" > Could this be correct? I think for the moment I am going to see how the > guppies do. If all make it I might add some non feeder guppies and go from > there before bying more expensie specimes. > > As recommended I purchased the biogen and will introduce it this weekend > after the PWC. One question Lenny, is Prime what the instructions call a > "buffer" for freshwater or is there something else I should get? > > I'm still looking for some 30w bulbs but I am also thinking it may be best > to keep it simple while I learn stuff. > > Thanks all, > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>, "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" > <GoldLenny@...> > wrote: > > > > What do you mean by "All feeder guppies were sucked into netting..."? > > I hope you meant none of them were. Also, what kind of activity did > > you see that led you to believe the shrimp did not like each other? > > > > Yes, your guppies should breed like... well, guppies. You should be > > alarmed if they aren't breeding like crazy. LOL If I was going to > > keep guppies, I would keep the males and females segregated except for > > occasional mixing when I wanted more. > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> (Links to any articles > > referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically > > under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] > > On Behalf Of amejia1976 > > Sent: Sunday, December 13, 2009 1:40 AM > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Planted Aquarium > > > > So far so good - kinda > > Test results have not changed > > > > 12/11/09 > > pH @ 7.6 > > Ammonia @ 0 > > Nitrite @ 0 > > Nitrate @ 10ppm > > > > All feeder guppies were sucked into netting and some of the shrimp did > > not seem to like each other. On a happy note, seems one of the guppies > > was prego and now I have a fry; 10 of them that I can count. I will > > take this to be a good thing if they have made it 5 days so far. > > > > Thanks on the info on the Purigen, it definitelly seems like a great > > product and what might be my salvation. Wish I could read the blog > > while @ work but its content is blocked - ohh well, gives me > something to > do when... > > > > Today I will do a water change, hopefully this will not mess things up > > :)- and I can keep posting good news. > > > > Thanks again ppl! > > > > Alex (btw- I am a guy. Someone refered to me as a she earlier :)) Then > > again, I ahve been called worse. > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 45184	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 12/16/2009
Subject: Re: Python No Spill Clean 'N Fill

I know from experience that using an old used python from a saltwater tank on a freshwater tank will not harm it if it's not sanitized fully. I just ran water through mine (hot water) for a little while then started using it (this was a year ago). Granted mine wasn't as dirty as yours sounds like it is, but hot water should clear most of the gunk out for you. Amber Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > > Try just hooking it up and running your tap water through it for a while.. > or just leave it curled up in your sink and let your tap water stay in the > hose for a soak and then run it again to flush out the debris. It's a > shame > your friend didn't flush it out after each use. > > Actually, when used for both the siphoning/gravel vacuuming and then > refilling on freshwater tanks, there should not be any debris left in the > hose since the refill process would flush it out anyhow on a freshwater > tank. Since your friend was using it on a saltwater tank, they didn't > refill their tank from the tap (I'm sure they pre-mixed their > saltwater and > refilled using buckets) so they would have had to flush out the Python > after > each vacuuming/siphoning job by just running tap water through it to > go down > the drain. > > After I'm done with mine each week, I put it back on the siphon mode > and run > the tap water while I pick up the other end of the Python over my head and > start curling it back up and the running tap water, in the siphon mode > starts sucking any residual water, other than a few drops, out of the hose > when I put it away. This results in some spotting inside the hose from my > hard water but it's not an issue. I've never had any issues with > mold/mildew/algae using my Python this way for several years. > > The good news is that, as far as I know, any common pathogens found in > saltwater will not live in freshwater... and vice versa... so you > shouldn't > have any fear related to that. > > If you really want to err on the side of caution and sanitize the > hoses, you > could fill your sink with a 10% to 20% bleach solution and then soak the > hose (just the hose... take off the fittings or at least remove the rubber > washers inside the fittings). After the soak, flush it out good with tap > water. Then refill the sink and add a dose of dechlor product to the water > and re-soak the hose in the dechlor water solution. Then rinse hose again > and put it back together. > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right > side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On > Behalf Of amejia1976 > Sent: Wednesday, December 16, 2009 2:48 AM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Subject: [AquaticLife] Python No Spill Clean 'N Fill > > So a friend of mine gave me this Python No Spill Clean 'N Fill > > http://www.drsfostersmith.com/product/prod_display.cfm?pcatid=3910 > <http://www.drsfostersmith.com/product/prod_display.cfm?pcatid=3910> > > Which I am pretty sure from having tried it on my sink that it will help > tremendously with PWC. Problem is, he used it on a saltwater setup and did > not seem to clean it often. The tubing is all dirty and filled with either > mold/algae or fish poop. > > The tube is over 25ft long so a liquid solution would be best. > I know bleach pretty much kills anything. If use bleach, would I be > able to > use Seachem Prime to remove the chlorine from it? Budget is tight so I am > not trying to put another hole in my pocket. > > Second, once cleaned and I begin using it, how can I keep it clean > from one > week to the next? Would regular/weekly use do the trick? > > Alex > Semper Fi > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 45185	From: bill 1433	Date: 12/16/2009
Subject: Re: Python No Spill Clean 'N Fill

Hi Alex,   Your on the right track with a bleach solution just don't make it too strong and you'll be fine.  Start by soaking the entire hose in it and then flushing it out well.  If it is still not clean, repeat the process.   Be advised though, that using bleach solution at any amount almost aways guarantees a kind of "cloudy or smokey" condition on the tubing. When you are finished it will not be crystal clear as if new.   To be honest, these units are not that expensive, $35.00 right now at Doctors Foster and Smith as you pointed too.   For the work on the one you have, it might be a consideration for you.  Also the matter of its prior use it salt water.   Semper Fi? Yes, been there and done that!   Bill --- On Wed, 12/16/09, amejia1976 <AMejia1976@...> wrote: From: amejia1976 <AMejia1976@...> Subject: [AquaticLife] Python No Spill Clean 'N Fill To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Date: Wednesday, December 16, 2009, 3:48 AM So a friend of mine gave me this Python No Spill Clean 'N Fill http://www.drsfostersmith.com/product/prod_display.cfm?pcatid=3910 Which I am pretty sure from having tried it on my sink that it will help tremendously with PWC. Problem is, he used it on a saltwater setup and did not seem to clean it often. The tubing is all dirty and filled with either mold/algae or fish poop. The tube is over 25ft long so a liquid solution would be best. I know bleach pretty much kills anything. If use bleach, would I be able to use Seachem Prime to remove the chlorine from it? Budget is tight so I am not trying to put another hole in my pocket. Second, once cleaned and I begin using it, how can I keep it clean from one week to the next? Would regular/weekly use do the trick? Alex aar ------------------------------------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the home page.  Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com to receive the digest, which includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com for the No E-Mail option where you will still be able to read messages on the group and post replies. Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com to receive individual e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 45186	From: David Keymel	Date: 12/16/2009
Subject: Re: Python No Spill Clean 'N Fill

You could buy a replacement hose section to i would imagine. On Wed, Dec 16, 2009 at 11:18 AM, bill 1433 <warrenprint@...> wrote: > > > Hi Alex, > > Your on the right track with a bleach solution just don't make > it too strong and you'll be fine. Start by soaking the entire hose > in it and then flushing it out well. If it is still not clean, repeat the > process. > > Be advised though, that using bleach solution at any amount almost > aways guarantees a kind of "cloudy or smokey" condition on the tubing. > When you are finished it will not be crystal clear as if new. > > To be honest, these units are not that expensive, $35.00 right now at > Doctors > Foster and Smith as you pointed too. > > For the work on the one you have, it might be a consideration for you. > Also the matter of its prior use it salt water. > > Semper Fi? > Yes, been there and done that! > > Bill > > --- On Wed, 12/16/09, amejia1976 <AMejia1976@...<AMejia1976%40hotmail.com>> > wrote: > > From: amejia1976 <AMejia1976@... <AMejia1976%40hotmail.com>> > > Subject: [AquaticLife] Python No Spill Clean 'N Fill > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Date: Wednesday, December 16, 2009, 3:48 AM > > > So a friend of mine gave me this Python No Spill Clean 'N Fill > > http://www.drsfostersmith.com/product/prod_display.cfm?pcatid=3910 > > Which I am pretty sure from having tried it on my sink that it will help > tremendously with PWC. Problem is, he used it on a saltwater setup and did > not seem to clean it often. The tubing is all dirty and filled with either > mold/algae or fish poop. > > The tube is over 25ft long so a liquid solution would be best. > I know bleach pretty much kills anything. If use bleach, would I be able to > use Seachem Prime to remove the chlorine from it? Budget is tight so I am > not trying to put another hole in my pocket. > > Second, once cleaned and I begin using it, how can I keep it clean from one > week to the next? Would regular/weekly use do the trick? > > Alex > aar > > > ------------------------------------ > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. > ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> > PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to > the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT > LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- > <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. > > If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of unsubscribing, you > can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the > home page. > > Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com<aquaticlife-digest%40yahoogroups.com>to receive the digest, which includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single > email > > Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com<aquaticlife-nomail%40yahoogroups.com>for the No E-Mail option where you will still be able to read messages on > the group and post replies. > > Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com<aquaticlife-normal%40yahoogroups.com>to receive individual e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 45187	From: Kathy	Date: 12/16/2009
Subject: Betta update

Hi all, Pisces seems to be doing fine. He's still looking fat around the middle, but I had my dad (who has kept fish before) take a close look at him, and he says that Pisces looks normal. My dad doesn't think I should worry about Pisces. He (the fish) has been pretty active, so I'm still feeding him twice a day. I need to clean his bowl in a few days. I'll set out some water today to use in two or three days. Oh, and how do I get rid of that algae that looks sorta hairy and is attached to some of the plants? It's been going nuts since I brought Pisces home for the break. He's got more light now, so his plants are growing like crazy. And he's actually got algae growth on one side of his bowl now. I'm very miffed that housing changed their policy on fish! When I got Pisces, I was told that we could have a single fish in a bowl (nothing electric, just an unheated, unfiltered bowl) provided that we took care of it and nothing started to stink. Now they're getting more strict, and I may have to leave Pisces with my parents for the spring semsester. I was told last time I checked that I would have to have the RD's permission in writing, as well as written permission from the other women in my suite, to keep him this coming semster. I'm thinking that I'll talk to the RD sometime between moving back in and my parents' first visit. They come to see me at least once a month to bring me my medicines and anything else I need. So they could easily bring Pisces on their first visit if I can get special permission to keep him with me. I'm the type of person who NEEDS something to nurture, preferably a pet. Plants are ok but just don't work as well as pets to satisfy this need in me. Anyway, just thought I'd let you folks know how my little guy is doing since I had posted last week that I was worried about him. -Kathy

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 45188	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 12/16/2009
Subject: Re: Python No Spill Clean 'N Fill

As Lenny pointed out saltwater deposits will not affect fish in an ill way, about all it might do is add salt to the tank in minute amounts (which will not have ill effects unless it was a higher amount, but it takes awhile for it to disolve). I barely rinsed my used python out before I used it on my freshwater tanks and had no issues at all, I didn't use bleach or anything, just ran some hot water through it. Amber bill 1433 wrote: > > Hi Alex, > > Your on the right track with a bleach solution just don't make > it too strong and you'll be fine. Start by soaking the entire hose > in it and then flushing it out well. If it is still not clean, repeat > the process. > > Be advised though, that using bleach solution at any amount almost > aways guarantees a kind of "cloudy or smokey" condition on the tubing. > When you are finished it will not be crystal clear as if new. > > To be honest, these units are not that expensive, $35.00 right now at > Doctors > Foster and Smith as you pointed too. > > For the work on the one you have, it might be a consideration for you. > Also the matter of its prior use it salt water. > > Semper Fi? > Yes, been there and done that! > > Bill > > --- On Wed, 12/16/09, amejia1976 <AMejia1976@... > <mailto:AMejia1976%40hotmail.com>> wrote: > > From: amejia1976 <AMejia1976@... > <mailto:AMejia1976%40hotmail.com>> > Subject: [AquaticLife] Python No Spill Clean 'N Fill > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Date: Wednesday, December 16, 2009, 3:48 AM > > So a friend of mine gave me this Python No Spill Clean 'N Fill > > http://www.drsfostersmith.com/product/prod_display.cfm?pcatid=3910 > <http://www.drsfostersmith.com/product/prod_display.cfm?pcatid=3910> > > Which I am pretty sure from having tried it on my sink that it will > help tremendously with PWC. Problem is, he used it on a saltwater > setup and did not seem to clean it often. The tubing is all dirty and > filled with either mold/algae or fish poop. > > The tube is over 25ft long so a liquid solution would be best. > I know bleach pretty much kills anything. If use bleach, would I be > able to use Seachem Prime to remove the chlorine from it? Budget is > tight so I am not trying to put another hole in my pocket. > > Second, once cleaned and I begin using it, how can I keep it clean > from one week to the next? Would regular/weekly use do the trick? > > Alex > aar > > ------------------------------------ > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. > ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> > PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT > important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message > MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- > <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. > > If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of unsubscribing, > you can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My > Membership" on the home page. > > Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:aquaticlife-digest%40yahoogroups.com> to receive the digest, > which includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email > > Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:aquaticlife-nomail%40yahoogroups.com> for the No E-Mail option > where you will still be able to read messages on the group and post > replies. > > Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:aquaticlife-normal%40yahoogroups.com> to receive individual > e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 45189	From: bill 1433	Date: 12/16/2009
Subject: Re: Python No Spill Clean 'N Fill

Ya, but you want to be careful there too. If that water gets to hot, your heading for leaks and cracked connectors I would think.   Bill --- On Wed, 12/16/09, Amber Berglund <arberglund@...> wrote: > From: Amber Berglund <arberglund@...> > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Python No Spill Clean 'N Fill > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Date: Wednesday, December 16, 2009, 2:13 PM > As Lenny pointed out saltwater > deposits will not affect fish in an ill > way, about all it might do is add salt to the tank in > minute amounts > (which will not have ill effects unless it was a higher > amount, but it > takes awhile for it to disolve). > I barely rinsed my used python out before I used it on my > freshwater > tanks and had no issues at all, I didn't use bleach or > anything, just > ran some hot water through it. > > Amber > > bill 1433 wrote: > > > > Hi Alex, > > > > Your on the right track with a bleach solution just > don't make > > it too strong and you'll be fine. Start by soaking the > entire hose > > in it and then flushing it out well. If it is still > not clean, repeat > > the process. > > > > Be advised though, that using bleach solution at any > amount almost > > aways guarantees a kind of "cloudy or smokey" > condition on the tubing. > > When you are finished it will not be crystal clear as > if new. > > > > To be honest, these units are not that expensive, > $35.00 right now at > > Doctors > > Foster and Smith as you pointed too. > > > > For the work on the one you have, it might be a > consideration for you. > > Also the matter of its prior use it salt water. > > > > Semper Fi? > > Yes, been there and done that! > > > > Bill > > > > --- On Wed, 12/16/09, amejia1976 <AMejia1976@... > > > <mailto:AMejia1976%40hotmail.com>> wrote: > > > > From: amejia1976 <AMejia1976@... > > > <mailto:AMejia1976%40hotmail.com>> > > Subject: [AquaticLife] Python No Spill Clean 'N Fill > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > Date: Wednesday, December 16, 2009, 3:48 AM > > > > So a friend of mine gave me this Python No Spill Clean > 'N Fill > > > > http://www.drsfostersmith.com/product/prod_display.cfm?pcatid=3910 > > > <http://www.drsfostersmith.com/product/prod_display.cfm?pcatid=3910> > > > > Which I am pretty sure from having tried it on my sink > that it will > > help tremendously with PWC. Problem is, he used it on > a saltwater > > setup and did not seem to clean it often. The tubing > is all dirty and > > filled with either mold/algae or fish poop. > > > > The tube is over 25ft long so a liquid solution would > be best. > > I know bleach pretty much kills anything. If use > bleach, would I be > > able to use Seachem Prime to remove the chlorine from > it? Budget is > > tight so I am not trying to put another hole in my > pocket. > > > > Second, once cleaned and I begin using it, how can I > keep it clean > > from one week to the next? Would regular/weekly use do > the trick? > > > > Alex > > aar > > > > ------------------------------------ > > > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when > replying, Thank You. > > > ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> > ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> > > PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that > is NOT > > important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of > the original message > > MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was > re: old subject)" <- > > > <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. > , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. > > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. > > > > If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead > of unsubscribing, > > you can change your delivery option by clicking on > "Edit My > > Membership" on the home page. > > > > Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com > > > <mailto:aquaticlife-digest%40yahoogroups.com> to > receive the digest, > > which includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single > email > > > > Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com > > > <mailto:aquaticlife-nomail%40yahoogroups.com> > for the No E-Mail option > > where you will still be able to read messages on the > group and post > > replies. > > > > Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com > > > <mailto:aquaticlife-normal%40yahoogroups.com> to > receive individual > > e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > > ------------------------------------ > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when > replying, Thank You. > ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> > ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> > PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is > NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of > the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new > subject (was re: old subject)" <- > <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. > , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. > > If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of > unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by > clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the home page.  > > Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com > to receive the digest, which includes up to 25 posts at a > time in a single email > > Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com > for the No E-Mail option where you will still be able to > read messages on the group and post replies. > > Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com > to receive individual e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links > > >     AquaticLife-fullfeatured@yahoogroups.com > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 45190	From: Dora Smith	Date: 12/16/2009
Subject: Re: Betta update

I hope mine looks OK.  I've been in the hospital wince Saturday with a busted appendix, and my sister fed him an ENTIRE Ocean Nutrition flake.    I kid you not.     Yours, Dora --- On Wed, 12/16/09, Kathy <kl_whitney@...> wrote: From: Kathy <kl_whitney@...> Subject: [AquaticLife] Betta update To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Date: Wednesday, December 16, 2009, 12:40 PM Hi all, Pisces seems to be doing fine.  He's still looking fat around the middle, but I had my dad (who has kept fish before) take a close look at him, and he says that Pisces looks normal.  My dad doesn't think I should worry about Pisces.  He (the fish) has been pretty active, so I'm still feeding him twice a day.  I need to clean his bowl in a few days.  I'll set out some water today to use in two or three days.  Oh, and how do I get rid of that algae that looks sorta hairy and is attached to some of the plants?  It's been going nuts since I brought Pisces home for the break.  He's got more light now, so his plants are growing like crazy.  And he's actually got algae growth on one side of his bowl now. I'm very miffed that housing changed their policy on fish!  When I got Pisces, I was told that we could have a single fish in a bowl (nothing electric, just an unheated, unfiltered bowl) provided that we took care of it and nothing started to stink.  Now they're getting more strict, and I may have to leave Pisces with my parents for the spring semsester.  I was told last time I checked that I would have to have the RD's permission in writing, as well as written permission from the other women in my suite, to keep him this coming semster.  I'm thinking that I'll talk to the RD sometime between moving back in and my parents' first visit.  They come to see me at least once a month to bring me my medicines and anything else I need.  So they could easily bring Pisces on their first visit if I can get special permission to keep him with me.  I'm the type of person who NEEDS something to nurture, preferably a pet.  Plants are ok but just don't work as well as pets to satisfy this need in me. Anyway, just thought I'd let you folks know how my little guy is doing since I had posted last week that I was worried about him. -Kathy ------------------------------------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the home page.  Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com to receive the digest, which includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com for the No E-Mail option where you will still be able to read messages on the group and post replies. Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com to receive individual e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 45191	From: bill 1433	Date: 12/16/2009
Subject: Re: Betta update

Hi Dora,   Very sorry to hear of your troubles!   Get Well Soon,   Bill --- On Wed, 12/16/09, Dora Smith <tiggernut24@...> wrote: From: Dora Smith <tiggernut24@...> Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Betta update To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Date: Wednesday, December 16, 2009, 3:20 PM I hope mine looks OK.  I've been in the hospital wince Saturday with a busted appendix, and my sister fed him an ENTIRE Ocean Nutrition flake.    I kid you not.     Yours, Dora --- On Wed, 12/16/09, Kathy <kl_whitney@...> wrote: From: Kathy <kl_whitney@...> Subject: [AquaticLife] Betta update To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Date: Wednesday, December 16, 2009, 12:40 PM Hi all, Pisces seems to be doing fine.  He's still looking fat around the middle, but I had my dad (who has kept fish before) take a close look at him, and he says that Pisces looks normal.  My dad doesn't think I should worry about Pisces.  He (the fish) has been pretty active, so I'm still feeding him twice a day.  I need to clean his bowl in a few days.  I'll set out some water today to use in two or three days.  Oh, and how do I get rid of that algae that looks sorta hairy and is attached to some of the plants?  It's been going nuts since I brought Pisces home for the break.  He's got more light now, so his plants are growing like crazy.  And he's actually got algae growth on one side of his bowl now. I'm very miffed that housing changed their policy on fish!  When I got Pisces, I was told that we could have a single fish in a bowl (nothing electric, just an unheated, unfiltered bowl) provided that we took care of it and nothing started to stink.  Now they're getting more strict, and I may have to leave Pisces with my parents for the spring semsester.  I was told last time I checked that I would have to have the RD's permission in writing, as well as written permission from the other women in my suite, to keep him this coming semster.  I'm thinking that I'll talk to the RD sometime between moving back in and my parents' first visit.  They come to see me at least once a month to bring me my medicines and anything else I need.  So they could easily bring Pisces on their first visit if I can get special permission to keep him with me.  I'm the type of person who NEEDS something to nurture, preferably a pet.  Plants are ok but just don't work as well as pets to satisfy this need in me. Anyway, just thought I'd let you folks know how my little guy is doing since I had posted last week that I was worried about him. -Kathy ------------------------------------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the home page.  Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com to receive the digest, which includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com for the No E-Mail option where you will still be able to read messages on the group and post replies. Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com to receive individual e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] ------------------------------------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the home page.  Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com to receive the digest, which includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com for the No E-Mail option where you will still be able to read messages on the group and post replies. Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com to receive individual e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 45192	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 12/16/2009
Subject: Re: Betta update

Glad to see he's doing OK. Did you ever get him to eat some green pea "meat".. or did you just fast him? Cut back on the natural sunlight. Direct sunlight will cause algae issues faster than almost anything else but even too much indirect sunlight can also cause problems. Yes, it's good for the plants but it's also good for the algae. During certain times of the year, early in the mornings, I'll get little streaks of sun beams coming through the little slots in my mini-blinds that hit the tank across the room and just those little streaks will cause algae to grow on the front glass of my 65G tank. Since you have a 4G "bowl" for your Betta, you could add a couple of snails (nerite, baby mystery snails, even nuisance pond snails) which will also help with eating algae and other clean-up chores (missed food, etc.). The nerite or baby mystery snails shouldn't pose a breeding problem and the "nuisance" pond snails will only become a problem if you are over-feeding, otherwise they are opportunistic breeders and only really breed a lot if there is a lot of food for them to eat. Your Betta can learn to eat the baby snails and eggs which will also help keep them in control. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Kathy Sent: Wednesday, December 16, 2009 12:41 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Betta update Hi all, Pisces seems to be doing fine. He's still looking fat around the middle, but I had my dad (who has kept fish before) take a close look at him, and he says that Pisces looks normal. My dad doesn't think I should worry about Pisces. He (the fish) has been pretty active, so I'm still feeding him twice a day. I need to clean his bowl in a few days. I'll set out some water today to use in two or three days. Oh, and how do I get rid of that algae that looks sorta hairy and is attached to some of the plants? It's been going nuts since I brought Pisces home for the break. He's got more light now, so his plants are growing like crazy. And he's actually got algae growth on one side of his bowl now. I'm very miffed that housing changed their policy on fish! When I got Pisces, I was told that we could have a single fish in a bowl (nothing electric, just an unheated, unfiltered bowl) provided that we took care of it and nothing started to stink. Now they're getting more strict, and I may have to leave Pisces with my parents for the spring semsester. I was told last time I checked that I would have to have the RD's permission in writing, as well as written permission from the other women in my suite, to keep him this coming semster. I'm thinking that I'll talk to the RD sometime between moving back in and my parents' first visit. They come to see me at least once a month to bring me my medicines and anything else I need. So they could easily bring Pisces on their first visit if I can get special permission to keep him with me. I'm the type of person who NEEDS something to nurture, preferably a pet. Plants are ok but just don't work as well as pets to satisfy this need in me. Anyway, just thought I'd let you folks know how my little guy is doing since I had posted last week that I was worried about him. -Kathy

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 45193	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 12/16/2009
Subject: Re: Python No Spill Clean 'N Fill

I don't think hot water out the tap has any effect on Python's... not unless you have your hot water heater way up there near the boiling point. I do run cold chlorinated tap water and then hot water through my Python after doing each tank to semi-sanitize it, although I do not really have any health issues with any of my tanks, and the only thing the hot water does is make the clear Python tubing a little softer but no other problems noted after several years. The one thing I forgot to mention earlier.. but I think I have a blog article on the Python, if not, I know I have some photographs of this potential problem on my Webshots photo album... is that there is the little venturi section that has a weak spot where I've had it split at the top of the threads a few times over the years so you don't want to pull on the Python hose. I make sure to leave some slack in the hose in the bathroom so I do not risk pulling the hose and I also reinforced the last venturi that I replaced, with 2-part epoxy, prior to using it and it has held up quite a while now. (knock on wood!). Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of bill 1433 Sent: Wednesday, December 16, 2009 2:05 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Python No Spill Clean 'N Fill Ya, but you want to be careful there too. If that water gets to hot, your heading for leaks and cracked connectors I would think.   Bill --- On Wed, 12/16/09, Amber Berglund <arberglund@...> wrote: > From: Amber Berglund <arberglund@...> > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Python No Spill Clean 'N Fill > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Date: Wednesday, December 16, 2009, 2:13 PM As Lenny pointed out > saltwater deposits will not affect fish in an ill way, about all it > might do is add salt to the tank in minute amounts (which will not > have ill effects unless it was a higher amount, but it takes awhile > for it to disolve). > I barely rinsed my used python out before I used it on my freshwater > tanks and had no issues at all, I didn't use bleach or anything, just > ran some hot water through it. > > Amber > > bill 1433 wrote: > > > > Hi Alex, > > > > Your on the right track with a bleach solution just > don't make > > it too strong and you'll be fine. Start by soaking the > entire hose > > in it and then flushing it out well. If it is still > not clean, repeat > > the process. > > > > Be advised though, that using bleach solution at any > amount almost > > aways guarantees a kind of "cloudy or smokey" > condition on the tubing. > > When you are finished it will not be crystal clear as > if new. > > > > To be honest, these units are not that expensive, > $35.00 right now at > > Doctors > > Foster and Smith as you pointed too. > > > > For the work on the one you have, it might be a > consideration for you. > > Also the matter of its prior use it salt water. > > > > Semper Fi? > > Yes, been there and done that! > > > > Bill > > > > --- On Wed, 12/16/09, amejia1976 <AMejia1976@... > > > <mailto:AMejia1976%40hotmail.com>> wrote: > > > > From: amejia1976 <AMejia1976@... > > > <mailto:AMejia1976%40hotmail.com>> > > Subject: [AquaticLife] Python No Spill Clean 'N Fill > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > Date: Wednesday, December 16, 2009, 3:48 AM > > > > So a friend of mine gave me this Python No Spill Clean > 'N Fill > > > > http://www.drsfostersmith.com/product/prod_display.cfm?pcatid=3910 > > > <http://www.drsfostersmith.com/product/prod_display.cfm?pcatid=3910> > > > > Which I am pretty sure from having tried it on my sink > that it will > > help tremendously with PWC. Problem is, he used it on > a saltwater > > setup and did not seem to clean it often. The tubing > is all dirty and > > filled with either mold/algae or fish poop. > > > > The tube is over 25ft long so a liquid solution would > be best. > > I know bleach pretty much kills anything. If use > bleach, would I be > > able to use Seachem Prime to remove the chlorine from > it? Budget is > > tight so I am not trying to put another hole in my > pocket. > > > > Second, once cleaned and I begin using it, how can I > keep it clean > > from one week to the next? Would regular/weekly use do > the trick? > > > > Alex > > aar

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 45194	From: harry perry	Date: 12/16/2009
Subject: Fw: {ArtAnon} Nice Little Story For Christmas/ O.T.

When four of Santa's elves got sick, the trainee elves did not produce toys as fast as the regular ones, and Santa began to feel the Pre-Christmas pressure. Then Mrs Claus told Santa her Mother was coming to visit, which stressed Santa even more. When he went to harness the reindeer, he found that three of them were about to give birth and two others had jumped the fence and were out, Heaven knows where. Then when he began to load the sleigh, one of the floorboards cracked, the toy bag fell to the ground and all the toys were scattered. Frustrated, Santa went in the house for a cup of apple cider and a shot of rum. When he went to the cupboard, he discovered the elves had drank all the cider and hidden the rum. In his frustration, he accidentally dropped the cider jug, and it broke into hundreds of little glass pieces all over the kitchen floor. He went to get the broom and found the mice had eaten all the straw off the end of the broom. Just then the doorbell rang, and irritated Santa marched to the door, yanked it open, and there stood a little angel with a great big Christmas tree. The angel said very cheerfully, 'Merry Christmas, Santa. Isn't this a lovely day? I have a beautiful tree for you. Where would you like me to stick it?' And so began the tradition of the little angel on top of the Christmas tree. Harry   [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 45195	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 12/16/2009
Subject: Re: Fw: {ArtAnon} Nice Little Story For Christmas/ O.T.

When four of Santa's elves got sick, the trainee elves did not produce toys as fast as the regular ones, and Santa began to feel the Pre-Christmas pressure. Then Mrs Claus told Santa her Mother was coming to visit, which stressed Santa even more. When he went to harness the reindeer, he found that three of them were about to give birth and two others had jumped the fence and were out, Heaven knows where. Then when he began to load the sleigh, one of the floorboards cracked, the toy bag fell to the ground and all the toys were scattered. Frustrated, Santa went in the house for a cup of apple cider and a shot of rum. When he went to the cupboard, he discovered the elves had drank all the cider and hidden the rum. In his frustration, he accidentally dropped the cider jug, and it broke into hundreds of little glass pieces all over the kitchen floor. He went to get the broom and found the mice had eaten all the straw off the end of the broom. Just then the doorbell rang, and irritated Santa marched to the door, yanked it open, and there stood a little angel with a great big Christmas tree. The angel said very cheerfully, 'Merry Christmas, Santa. Isn't this a lovely day? I have a beautiful tree for you. Where would you like me to stick it?' . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . And so began the tradition of the little angel on top of the Christmas tree.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 45196	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 12/16/2009
Subject: Re: Fw: {ArtAnon} Nice Little Story For Christmas/ O.T.

Oops.. I meant to add an LOL. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month)

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 45197	From: amejia1976	Date: 12/16/2009
Subject: Re: Planted Aquarium

WOW - more info - I wish I were Data from SS TNG - I had the bag with the fish resting on the aquarium for over 2 hours. When I tested the water in the tank and the one from the store the only diff was a pH of 7.2 on the water from the store and my tank was @ 7.6 which from looking at the posts here should not really matter. Nitrate @ 10ppm, Nitrite @ 0 and Ammonia @ 0 for both. Unfortunatelly the stores (Walmart, PetCo, PetSupermarket) I have gone to have not had the GH and KH kits available so I have not been able to test that as recommened by Amber. The tests results for 12/16/2009 were: pH @ 7.6 Ammonia @ 0ppm Nitrite @ 0ppm Nitrate @ 10ppm This has been the same result for 10 days running now. Only thing that has changed is the fact that I have not had to add water every other day after I put the canopy and reduced evaporation and off course there are fish in there - Perhaps im finally doing something right? Yes, I got the name comfused, I got the PURIGEN. Would Jungle's Start Right or Tetras AquaSafe do the same as Prime? When recharging the Purigen? That is neutralize/remove Chlorine (BTW - this is what my water company uses. Would it be best if I did a topic for each of my questions and maybe make this easier for others to follow? I know I am a bit lost sometimes. Alex Semper Fi --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@...> wrote: > > Did you properly acclimate the fish/shrimp to your new tank? I know many > stores just tell folks to float the bag, blah, blah, blah, but that is not > always a proper way to acclimate, especially if the water parameters between > the water they were in and the water they are going into is a LOT different. > Knowing the water parameters of the water they were in and your tank's water > would give us information to give you better guidance. If you did not > acclimate them properly, then this could be the reason for your larger die > off. Sometimes, for sensitive fish/critters and even for hardy > fish/critters, if the water parameters are a lot different, acclimation > could take several hours with having the critters in a holding tank and then > setting up a drip line into the holding tank and slowly dripping water from > the main tank into the holding tank to slowly acclimate the fish/critters to > their new water. > > Have you watched the tank to see if live, healthy fish are actually getting > sucked into/against the overflow box/screen? I've had some very heavily > filtered tanks and I have NEVER seen a healthy fish get sucked against the > intakes of any of my filter systems... EVER! Now, a sick or dead fish would > certainly be more likely to end up against a filter intake but NOT a healthy > fish. > > If you are seeing healthy fish get sucked up against/into the overflow > screen, then we need to look at your filter system closer to see what is > really happening and you may have to take additional safety precautions, > such as sponge filter block in/around your intake, instead of or in addition > to just the screen material. About the only way I could see a healthy fish > getting caught into this trap would be if they were chasing floating food > and followed it into the overflow box/screen??? If this is happening, then > you may need to turn your filter off when feeding so the floating food stays > on the surface until the fish eat it all (no more than five minutes or you > may be feeding them too much). > > What "instructions" are you talking about? Prime is not a buffer, it is a > dechlorinator product that also goes a step further and treats ammonia. > It's OK to use on new tanks or when folks are stuck with cycling with > fish... which I STRONGLY recommend folks DO NOT DO. Prime costs around 5X > more than a normal basic dechlor product (like API's) so it's a waste of > money when used under normal circumstances. I'm not sure anyone recommended > using a buffer. Most of us would not recommend this, especially to someone > who is not knowledgeable about water chemistry. I am, but I still would not > use store bought buffer products. > > Who recommended "biogen" and what is it? I've never heard of "biogen" and a > Google search shows it to be some kind of biotechnology company related to > human drugs/research. I added "aquarium" to the search and still only found > info about this same biotechnology company. > > OH WAIT... after reading the above where you asked about a "buffer" and then > "biogen", are you talking about Purigen? I'm thinking yes, but I do not > want to speculate. In either case, Prime is NOT a buffer. What are your > water hardness levels for GH (General Hardness) and KH (Carbonate Hardness)? > If you do not have these test kits, call your local water utility and ask > them what the levels are when the water leaves their plant and if they have > any testing stations closer to your home. Let us know these figures. I see > from below, that your pH is 7.6, so you could have harder water... but pH is > not a definite indicator of water hardness levels so you should still try to > find out what yours are. If you have hard water, you probably will not need > the "buffer" that is mentioned in the Purigen instructions. Another > indicator of hard water is when the water evaporates, it leaves a white > powdery chalky residue on every above the waterline in the tank. I do not > use that "buffer" step when recharging my Purigen since I have moderately > hard water. If you read in the instructions for Saltwater users, they do > not need this "buffer" stage and the reason for this is that saltwater tanks > have much harder water than most freshwater tanks. I tested my recharged > Purigen in a bucket of my water without using the buffer and the Purigen did > not affect my water's hardness levels and I've been using it this way for > several years without a problem. For folks with softer water, they might > have to use this "buffer" step in the recharge process but it could also > just be a way of Seachem trying to separate folks from some of their > money... possibly erring on the side of caution or possibly intentionally. > Unfortunately, many fine companies in the fish product business come out > with MANY products that simply are not needed and are sold to unsuspecting > newbie's until the newbie learns better. I estimate that 95% of the bottled > crap sold in pet stores is not needed by 95% of fish keepers.... but the > stores still push this crap on people to add to their bottom lines. > > While we figure all the above out and presuming you bought Purigen, you will > not have to worry about recharging it for quite a while anyhow so you can > start using it now and can worry about the recharge process when you see it > turning dark brown in several weeks to a month or two, depending on your > water quality. > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right > side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) > > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On > Behalf Of amejia1976 > Sent: Wednesday, December 16, 2009 12:44 AM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Planted Aquarium > > Hello, > > The netting worked as sugested by keeping the fish from going into the > overflow box. Unfotunatelly, when they got close to it they were pulled into > the net, by the time I noticed them it was too late and had perished. > > As for the Shrimp I was trying to be funny. I know better now. The shrimp > were fine but many of them did not make it either. Of the 10 there are only > 4 alive. > > All dead fish were removed. Dead shrimp were pretty decomposed by the time I > noticed; which I hear is normal with invertebrates and therefore did not > remove. > > Now to the fry; there are 9 live tiny guppies - they were born over a week > ago and seem to be doing just fine. I am thinking that since they were born > in the tank the chances for survival are greater as it is the only > environment they know and have not suffered any "travel/shipping trauma" > Could this be correct? I think for the moment I am going to see how the > guppies do. If all make it I might add some non feeder guppies and go from > there before bying more expensie specimes. > > As recommended I purchased the biogen and will introduce it this weekend > after the PWC. One question Lenny, is Prime what the instructions call a > "buffer" for freshwater or is there something else I should get? > > I'm still looking for some 30w bulbs but I am also thinking it may be best > to keep it simple while I learn stuff. > > Thanks all, > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@> > wrote: > > > > What do you mean by "All feeder guppies were sucked into netting..."? > > I hope you meant none of them were. Also, what kind of activity did > > you see that led you to believe the shrimp did not like each other? > > > > Yes, your guppies should breed like... well, guppies. You should be > > alarmed if they aren't breeding like crazy. LOL If I was going to > > keep guppies, I would keep the males and females segregated except for > > occasional mixing when I wanted more. > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles > > referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically > > under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] > > On Behalf Of amejia1976 > > Sent: Sunday, December 13, 2009 1:40 AM > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Planted Aquarium > > > > So far so good - kinda > > Test results have not changed > > > > 12/11/09 > > pH @ 7.6 > > Ammonia @ 0 > > Nitrite @ 0 > > Nitrate @ 10ppm > > > > All feeder guppies were sucked into netting and some of the shrimp did > > not seem to like each other. On a happy note, seems one of the guppies > > was prego and now I have a fry; 10 of them that I can count. I will > > take this to be a good thing if they have made it 5 days so far. > > > > Thanks on the info on the Purigen, it definitelly seems like a great > > product and what might be my salvation. Wish I could read the blog > > while @ work but its content is blocked - ohh well, gives me something to > do when... > > > > Today I will do a water change, hopefully this will not mess things up > > :)- and I can keep posting good news. > > > > Thanks again ppl! > > > > Alex (btw- I am a guy. Someone refered to me as a she earlier :)) Then > > again, I ahve been called worse. >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 45198	From: amejia1976	Date: 12/16/2009
Subject: Re: Python No Spill Clean 'N Fill

Thank you all - Alex Semper Fi --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "amejia1976" <AMejia1976@...> wrote: > > So a friend of mine gave me this Python No Spill Clean 'N Fill > > http://www.drsfostersmith.com/product/prod_display.cfm?pcatid=3910 > > Which I am pretty sure from having tried it on my sink that it will help tremendously with PWC. Problem is, he used it on a saltwater setup and did not seem to clean it often. The tubing is all dirty and filled with either mold/algae or fish poop. > > The tube is over 25ft long so a liquid solution would be best. > I know bleach pretty much kills anything. If use bleach, would I be able to use Seachem Prime to remove the chlorine from it? Budget is tight so I am not trying to put another hole in my pocket. > > Second, once cleaned and I begin using it, how can I keep it clean from one week to the next? Would regular/weekly use do the trick? > > Alex > Semper Fi >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 45199	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 12/16/2009
Subject: Re: Planted Aquarium

You can separate topics if you like. The pH scale is a logarithmic progression... much like the earthquake "Richter" scale (see next paragraph for a good explanation). As a general rule for our tanks., you shouldn't change your pH by more than .1 in an hour and no more than .2 in a day... although some fish will tolerate larger changes when it's a result of higher CO2 levels or outdoor ponds/streams where rain water will dramatically change the pH by more than this amount. On my "A to Z Of Fish Keeping" page, I recommend two different free online fish keeping tutorials/courses. One of them has this http://faq.thekrib.com/begin-chem.html as part of their explanation about water chemistry, including pH..., "...pH refers to water being either an acid, base, or neither (neutral). A pH of 7 is said to be neutral, a pH below 7 is ``acidic'' and a pH above 7 is ``basic'' or ``alkaline''. Like the Richter scale used to measure earthquakes, the pH scale is logarithmic. A pH of 5.5 is 10 times more acidic than water at a pH of 6.5. Thus, changing the pH by a small amount (suddenly) is more of a chemical change (and more stressful to fish!) than might first appear." Going from a 7.2 to 7.6, without slowly adding some of the tank water to the bag water over the course of an hour or two would be stressful to the fish... added to the stress of the fish being kept in the stores tanks (in probably less than ideal conditions), then bagged and transported to your tank and well.. you see what can happen. Consider this a lesson learned... but please go to my "A to Z of Fish Keeping" page and take one or both of the free online tutorials/courses so you will have a better understanding of all of the basics. While I prefer a simple basic dechlor product like API's Tap Water Conditioner or Top Fin's Tap Water Dechlorinator, which simply treat chlorine/chloramine and heavy metals, some of those other products are also dechlor's but usually have a lot of junk added to them, like supposedly slime-this and/or stress-that type additives or Aloe or slime coat enhancers, etc.... or any other non-fish junk other than what is absolutely necessary like a dechlor and heavy metal treatment. I don't like adding junk chemicals to my tanks... especially not bottled junk from the stores. The only thing I buy from the stores/online is one of the simple dechlor products mentioned above. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of amejia1976 Sent: Wednesday, December 16, 2009 5:44 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Planted Aquarium WOW - more info - I wish I were Data from SS TNG - I had the bag with the fish resting on the aquarium for over 2 hours. When I tested the water in the tank and the one from the store the only diff was a pH of 7.2 on the water from the store and my tank was @ 7.6 which from looking at the posts here should not really matter. Nitrate @ 10ppm, Nitrite @ 0 and Ammonia @ 0 for both. Unfortunatelly the stores (Walmart, PetCo, PetSupermarket) I have gone to have not had the GH and KH kits available so I have not been able to test that as recommened by Amber. The tests results for 12/16/2009 were: pH @ 7.6 Ammonia @ 0ppm Nitrite @ 0ppm Nitrate @ 10ppm This has been the same result for 10 days running now. Only thing that has changed is the fact that I have not had to add water every other day after I put the canopy and reduced evaporation and off course there are fish in there - Perhaps im finally doing something right? Yes, I got the name comfused, I got the PURIGEN. Would Jungle's Start Right or Tetras AquaSafe do the same as Prime? When recharging the Purigen? That is neutralize/remove Chlorine (BTW - this is what my water company uses. Would it be best if I did a topic for each of my questions and maybe make this easier for others to follow? I know I am a bit lost sometimes. Alex Semper Fi --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@...> wrote: > > Did you properly acclimate the fish/shrimp to your new tank? I know > many stores just tell folks to float the bag, blah, blah, blah, but > that is not always a proper way to acclimate, especially if the water > parameters between the water they were in and the water they are going into is a LOT different. > Knowing the water parameters of the water they were in and your tank's > water would give us information to give you better guidance. If you > did not acclimate them properly, then this could be the reason for > your larger die off. Sometimes, for sensitive fish/critters and even > for hardy fish/critters, if the water parameters are a lot different, > acclimation could take several hours with having the critters in a > holding tank and then setting up a drip line into the holding tank and > slowly dripping water from the main tank into the holding tank to > slowly acclimate the fish/critters to their new water. > > Have you watched the tank to see if live, healthy fish are actually > getting sucked into/against the overflow box/screen? I've had some > very heavily filtered tanks and I have NEVER seen a healthy fish get > sucked against the intakes of any of my filter systems... EVER! Now, > a sick or dead fish would certainly be more likely to end up against a > filter intake but NOT a healthy fish. > > If you are seeing healthy fish get sucked up against/into the overflow > screen, then we need to look at your filter system closer to see what > is really happening and you may have to take additional safety > precautions, such as sponge filter block in/around your intake, > instead of or in addition to just the screen material. About the only > way I could see a healthy fish getting caught into this trap would be > if they were chasing floating food and followed it into the overflow > box/screen??? If this is happening, then you may need to turn your > filter off when feeding so the floating food stays on the surface > until the fish eat it all (no more than five minutes or you may be feeding them too much). > > What "instructions" are you talking about? Prime is not a buffer, it > is a dechlorinator product that also goes a step further and treats ammonia. > It's OK to use on new tanks or when folks are stuck with cycling with > fish... which I STRONGLY recommend folks DO NOT DO. Prime costs > around 5X more than a normal basic dechlor product (like API's) so > it's a waste of money when used under normal circumstances. I'm not > sure anyone recommended using a buffer. Most of us would not > recommend this, especially to someone who is not knowledgeable about > water chemistry. I am, but I still would not use store bought buffer products. > > Who recommended "biogen" and what is it? I've never heard of "biogen" > and a Google search shows it to be some kind of biotechnology company > related to human drugs/research. I added "aquarium" to the search and > still only found info about this same biotechnology company. > > OH WAIT... after reading the above where you asked about a "buffer" > and then "biogen", are you talking about Purigen? I'm thinking yes, > but I do not want to speculate. In either case, Prime is NOT a > buffer. What are your water hardness levels for GH (General Hardness) and KH (Carbonate Hardness)? > If you do not have these test kits, call your local water utility and > ask them what the levels are when the water leaves their plant and if > they have any testing stations closer to your home. Let us know these > figures. I see from below, that your pH is 7.6, so you could have > harder water... but pH is not a definite indicator of water hardness > levels so you should still try to find out what yours are. If you > have hard water, you probably will not need the "buffer" that is > mentioned in the Purigen instructions. Another indicator of hard > water is when the water evaporates, it leaves a white powdery chalky > residue on every above the waterline in the tank. I do not use that > "buffer" step when recharging my Purigen since I have moderately hard > water. If you read in the instructions for Saltwater users, they do > not need this "buffer" stage and the reason for this is that saltwater > tanks have much harder water than most freshwater tanks. I tested my > recharged Purigen in a bucket of my water without using the buffer and > the Purigen did not affect my water's hardness levels and I've been > using it this way for several years without a problem. For folks with > softer water, they might have to use this "buffer" step in the > recharge process but it could also just be a way of Seachem trying to separate folks from some of their money... possibly erring on the side of caution or possibly intentionally. > Unfortunately, many fine companies in the fish product business come > out with MANY products that simply are not needed and are sold to > unsuspecting newbie's until the newbie learns better. I estimate that > 95% of the bottled crap sold in pet stores is not needed by 95% of > fish keepers.... but the stores still push this crap on people to add to their bottom lines. > > While we figure all the above out and presuming you bought Purigen, > you will not have to worry about recharging it for quite a while > anyhow so you can start using it now and can worry about the recharge > process when you see it turning dark brown in several weeks to a month > or two, depending on your water quality. > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles > referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically > under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) > > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] > On Behalf Of amejia1976 > Sent: Wednesday, December 16, 2009 12:44 AM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Planted Aquarium > > Hello, > > The netting worked as sugested by keeping the fish from going into the > overflow box. Unfotunatelly, when they got close to it they were > pulled into the net, by the time I noticed them it was too late and had perished. > > As for the Shrimp I was trying to be funny. I know better now. The > shrimp were fine but many of them did not make it either. Of the 10 > there are only > 4 alive. > > All dead fish were removed. Dead shrimp were pretty decomposed by the > time I noticed; which I hear is normal with invertebrates and > therefore did not remove. > > Now to the fry; there are 9 live tiny guppies - they were born over a > week ago and seem to be doing just fine. I am thinking that since they > were born in the tank the chances for survival are greater as it is > the only environment they know and have not suffered any "travel/shipping trauma" > Could this be correct? I think for the moment I am going to see how > the guppies do. If all make it I might add some non feeder guppies and > go from there before bying more expensie specimes. > > As recommended I purchased the biogen and will introduce it this > weekend after the PWC. One question Lenny, is Prime what the > instructions call a "buffer" for freshwater or is there something else I should get? > > I'm still looking for some 30w bulbs but I am also thinking it may be > best to keep it simple while I learn stuff. > > Thanks all, > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" > <GoldLenny@> > wrote: > > > > What do you mean by "All feeder guppies were sucked into netting..."? > > I hope you meant none of them were. Also, what kind of activity did > > you see that led you to believe the shrimp did not like each other? > > > > Yes, your guppies should breed like... well, guppies. You should be > > alarmed if they aren't breeding like crazy. LOL If I was going to > > keep guppies, I would keep the males and females segregated except > > for occasional mixing when I wanted more. > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles > > referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, > > alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] > > On Behalf Of amejia1976 > > Sent: Sunday, December 13, 2009 1:40 AM > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Planted Aquarium > > > > So far so good - kinda > > Test results have not changed > > > > 12/11/09 > > pH @ 7.6 > > Ammonia @ 0 > > Nitrite @ 0 > > Nitrate @ 10ppm > > > > All feeder guppies were sucked into netting and some of the shrimp > > did not seem to like each other. On a happy note, seems one of the > > guppies was prego and now I have a fry; 10 of them that I can count. > > I will take this to be a good thing if they have made it 5 days so far. > > > > Thanks on the info on the Purigen, it definitelly seems like a great > > product and what might be my salvation. Wish I could read the blog > > while @ work but its content is blocked - ohh well, gives me > > something to > do when... > > > > Today I will do a water change, hopefully this will not mess things > > up > > :)- and I can keep posting good news. > > > > Thanks again ppl! > > > > Alex (btw- I am a guy. Someone refered to me as a she earlier :)) > > Then again, I ahve been called worse.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 45200	From: young.souls	Date: 12/17/2009
Subject: Fish Food Disaster

Hi, Yesterday night, my son climbed up to the 6G Guppy fry and Betta Tank and emptied the flake food box in, there was about 1.5" of food in that container, the whole substrate was covered with food. I discovered the disaster after about half an hour, of course the fish ate like crazy and were totally full when I noticed what was going on. I immediately prepared a bucket to transfer all the fish, I also transfered the heater and bubble up filter. I used 25% new conditioned water and 75% water from the 6G. The 6G finally became "clean & clear" through several fillings and emptying and vaccuming the gravel with a python, all while stirring it constantly. I heated the tank (I put about 1G of new water in)yesterday, and moved the fish and filter back this morning. It's 2/3 full now, and I'm gradually filling it to mentain temperature. All the fish look fine and may I say.. HUNGRY. They're dancing for me while I'm typing this. My question is, should I fast them and for how long? The Guppies look normal but the male Betta is bloated but active. BTW, The substrate was NEVER that clean before! Noura

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 45201	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 12/17/2009
Subject: Re: Fish Food Disaster

Noura, Mommy's little helper, eh? I'd just go ahead and feed as normal, though maybe a little less for the next couple of days. Fish are opportunistic eaters. Food present, eat. No food, don't eat and keep looking. Just keep an eye on the betta. The "bloating" may be nothing more than an overfull gut, and will slowly go down. If it does not, I'd probably separate him out and put him on a strict diet while he loses the extra weight. \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of young.souls Sent: Thursday, December 17, 2009 3:12 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Fish Food Disaster Hi, Yesterday night, my son climbed up to the 6G Guppy fry and Betta Tank and emptied the flake food box in, there was about 1.5" of food in that container, the whole substrate was covered with food. I discovered the disaster after about half an hour, of course the fish ate like crazy and were totally full when I noticed what was going on. I immediately prepared a bucket to transfer all the fish, I also transfered the heater and bubble up filter. I used 25% new conditioned water and 75% water from the 6G. The 6G finally became "clean & clear" through several fillings and emptying and vaccuming the gravel with a python, all while stirring it constantly. I heated the tank (I put about 1G of new water in)yesterday, and moved the fish and filter back this morning. It's 2/3 full now, and I'm gradually filling it to mentain temperature. All the fish look fine and may I say.. HUNGRY. They're dancing for me while I'm typing this. My question is, should I fast them and for how long? The Guppies look normal but the male Betta is bloated but active. BTW, The substrate was NEVER that clean before! Noura ------------------------------------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the home page. Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com to receive the digest, which includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com for the No E-Mail option where you will still be able to read messages on the group and post replies. Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com to receive individual e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 45202	From: young.souls	Date: 12/17/2009
Subject: Re: Fish Food Disaster

What kind of diet, Green pea diet? Or just less amounts of his usual food? The foods I have are: Flakes, Tubifex worms, Blood worms, Sardine sinking pellets, and I occasionally feed them green peas, and rarely give them tiny amounts of crashed boiled egg white or raw meat. I usually alternate between them with more flakes and less Tubifex worms. Noura --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Steve Szabo" <steve@...> wrote: > > Noura, > > Mommy's little helper, eh? I'd just go ahead and feed as normal, though > maybe a little less for the next couple of days. Fish are opportunistic > eaters. Food present, eat. No food, don't eat and keep looking. Just keep an > eye on the betta. The "bloating" may be nothing more than an overfull gut, > and will slowly go down. If it does not, I'd probably separate him out and > put him on a strict diet while he loses the extra weight. > > \\Steve// > > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On > Behalf Of young.souls > Sent: Thursday, December 17, 2009 3:12 AM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Subject: [AquaticLife] Fish Food Disaster > > > Hi, > Yesterday night, my son climbed up to the 6G Guppy fry and Betta Tank and > emptied the flake food box in, there was about 1.5" of food in that > container, the whole substrate was covered with food. > > I discovered the disaster after about half an hour, of course the fish ate > like crazy and were totally full when I noticed what was going on. I > immediately prepared a bucket to transfer all the fish, I also transfered > the heater and bubble up filter. I used 25% new conditioned water and 75% > water from the 6G. > > The 6G finally became "clean & clear" through several fillings and emptying > and vaccuming the gravel with a python, all while stirring it constantly. I > heated the tank (I put about 1G of new water in)yesterday, and moved the > fish and filter back this morning. It's 2/3 full now, and I'm gradually > filling it to mentain temperature. > > All the fish look fine and may I say.. HUNGRY. They're dancing for me while > I'm typing this. > > My question is, should I fast them and for how long? The Guppies look normal > but the male Betta is bloated but active. > BTW, The substrate was NEVER that clean before! > > Noura > > > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 45203	From: gcalin2001	Date: 12/17/2009
Subject: Koi parasite?

Hello everyone, I would appreciate some help from the group. I have a koi fish for over 5 years (I do not add new fishes in the tank for over a year). About 6 months ago it started to show a small white spot nearby the caudal peduncle (inner side) that is slowly growing in size and forming a fat round bag attached to the fin. It eats and swims just fine and it does not show any disease symptom. Some photos for reference: http://76.163.43.180/gcalin/kinguio1.jpg http://76.163.43.180/gcalin/kinguio2.jpg http://76.163.43.180/gcalin/kinguio3.jpg Anyone has any idea what it that? Some kind of parasite or genetic problem? Thank you! Gabriel

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 45204	From: sevenspringss@wmconnect.com	Date: 12/17/2009
Subject: Re: Planted Aquarium

Alex, Your considering that the difference of the one pH (at 7.2) from the other pH (at 7.6) "should not really matter" was not found as a recommendation on this Group. We have always stated that fish should not be subjected to a difference in pH of more than .2 (that's decimal point, 2) per day. While a larger difference in pH, such as what you had, is usually what dictates a more attentive acclimation period, and while General and Temporary hardness are parameters that are usually only secondary considerations when acclimatizing fish (or not often considered at all) the realization that you can't test for GH and KH - not being able to obtain these kits -- coupled with the fact that the pH difference was .4 (point 4) should have been enough to prompt you to acclimate for these parameters as well, besides only the temperature consideration. When subjecting fish to possible larger differences in hardness, you could be subjecting them to a wider difference in osmotic pressure -- which is even MORE stressful than this difference in pH. While it is generally recommended to pay attention to wider differences in pH when considering the acclimatization process of fish when introducing them to water parameters new to them, with this recommendation of a pH difference it is kept in mind that pH values are most usually coupled at least loosely with values in hardness as increased carbonates found as higher KH values also can have an indirect bearing on pH. The General Hardness, while not directly tied to the Carbonate Hardness, is often seen as accompanying each other as increases in both. A wider difference in hardness values between two dissimilar water columns are INFINITELY MORE DANGEROUS, even than the possibilities of pH shock and is (or, should be) really the PRIMARY consideration when confronting the issue of how intimate one must be acclimating fish -- after first testing for these parameter differences to determine the extent of this need. Ray</HTML>

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 45205	From: sevenspringss@wmconnect.com	Date: 12/17/2009
Subject: Re: Betta update

Dora, I must presume you had the operation Saturday to remove this busted appendix (?). Hope you're feeling better and GET WELL SOON!!! Ray</HTML>

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 45206	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 12/17/2009
Subject: Re: Koi parasite?

How big of a "tank" do you have this koi fish in? They get very large and need a very large pond, putting them in undersized tanks usually causes health problems and stunting. Amber gcalin2001 wrote: > > Hello everyone, > > I would appreciate some help from the group. I have a koi fish for > over 5 years > (I do not add new fishes in the tank for over a year). About 6 months > ago it > started to show a small white spot nearby the caudal peduncle (inner > side) that > is slowly growing in size and forming a fat round bag attached to the fin. > It eats and swims just fine and it does not show any disease symptom. > > Some photos for reference: > > http://76.163.43.180/gcalin/kinguio1.jpg > <http://76.163.43.180/gcalin/kinguio1.jpg> > http://76.163.43.180/gcalin/kinguio2.jpg > <http://76.163.43.180/gcalin/kinguio2.jpg> > http://76.163.43.180/gcalin/kinguio3.jpg > <http://76.163.43.180/gcalin/kinguio3.jpg> > > Anyone has any idea what it that? Some kind of parasite or genetic > problem? > > Thank you! > > Gabriel > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 45207	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 12/17/2009
Subject: Re: Koi parasite?

Just to be clear, or maybe it's a language breakdown, but your fish is a goldfish as far as I can tell since it looks like a goldfish and I do not see any of the tell-tale barbels which ALL Koi have. It's probably not showing up as clearly to us, in the pictures, as it does to you but from what I can see, it looks like it could be either a miscellaneous tumor or more likely one of the pimple-like bumps that many goldfish get and they have been tied to a herpes type virus strain in some forums and others still speculate as to their cause. I have my theories which I'll touch on later. I've compared them to the Herpes Simplex-1 virus that is carried by many humans (and possibly some animals also) which form as small bumps and can develop into larger blisters when certain stressful situations occur, such as too much sun or sunburned lips or chapped lips during the winter. The HS-1 virus resides in the nerve endings of certain nerves and when these nerves get agitated, the virus rears it's sometimes ugly head. It's commonly called Fever Blisters or Cold Sores but the virus is basically the same virus that is also an STD called Genital Herpes since the HS-1 virus can morph into and become Genital Herpes when... well.. I'm getting back to fish now. LOL Read and look through all the photos on this page and see if this is what you have... or something similar. http://thegab.org/Illness-and-Treatment/ingrids-moor-rashi-and-the-mystery-s pots.html Now, as to my theories as to why you may be seeing this event with your goldfish. This is only a theory since I do not have enough information to make this more conclusive. I'm not picking on you (merely pointing out my observations) since most goldfish keepers have had the same issues when we first started and did not know as much as we'd like to know. I count at least four goldfish in your tank and I see you have a LOT of algae growing all over your substrate and decorations and probably on the glass as well, although you probably clean the glass on a regular basis, I see remnants of the algae down near the substrate. I also see red streaking (visible blood vessels) in the tail fin of your affected fish. While red streaking can be normal and is more likely to show up in white/clear fins, red streaking can also be a result of water quality issues related to elevated ammonia levels, stress (due to overcrowding, etc.) and/or worse case scenario, hemorrhagic septicemia. Your fish appear to be healthy BUT this does not mean they are not feeling more and more stressed from possibly being overcrowded in your tank. Four goldfish, especially the long-bodied variety, would need a tank of at least 200G. You did not indicate your tank size but not many folks have 200G tanks so I'm basing my presumptions on statistics. I do not see any live plants so it's actually good that you have lots of algae as the algae helps to clean the water of pollution (ammonia, nitrite, nitrate, phosphate, etc.) and takes in CO2 and puts out O2 during photosynthesis... so DO NOT go trying to clean up all the algae as it's actually a good thing in heavily stocked tanks. You mentioned that you added at least one new fish about a year ago but you have to remember that goldfish are BIG fish and, like all fish, should be stocked according to their expected adult size, not the size they are when you get them. That little 1" feeder type goldfish that you might buy in a store, will grow up to well over 12" and as much as 18" to 24" if not stunted from being kept in an undersized home for too long. Fancy goldfish, like the one bubble-eye that I saw in one of the pictures, might only grow to 6" to 8" long but they have similar body mass to a long-bodied goldfish twice their size. Mathematics proves that a goldfish body mass grows by eight times for each time the goldfish doubles in length so an 8" fancy goldfish is equal in body mass to over 500 1" goldfish. This is why goldfish NEED to be in BIG tanks or ponds. It's usually a good idea to not mix long-bodied and round-bodied goldfish as the round-bodied can't compete as well for food and if the round-bodied ends up being a female, could get harassed to death by zealous long-bodied males since the round-bodied female could not get away from the males. If you ever see this happening, it would be very good if you remove one of the fish. If your tank is at least 100G, you might be able to make it work for a while, while the fish are still smaller, by doing 2x/week to 3x/week 25% to 33% partial water changes (PWC's), vacuuming your gravel each time and cleaning your filter media at least once a week.. or more often if needed. These more frequent PWC's will simulate the tank being larger than it is since you will be removing the fish hormones and other pollution levels more often then when you were only doing tank maintenance once a week... presuming you were doing weekly tank maintenance. Also, running an advanced chemical filtration media like Purigen would also help with overstocked or heavily stocked tanks or tanks with BIG fish. I have a couple of articles on my blog about Goldfish Care and stocking levels. Start with my Goldfish Care sheet and there is a link to the stocking article in my care sheet, as well as proven mathematical data to support what I am saying here. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of gcalin2001 Sent: Thursday, December 17, 2009 7:11 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Koi parasite? Hello everyone, I would appreciate some help from the group. I have a koi fish for over 5 years (I do not add new fishes in the tank for over a year). About 6 months ago it started to show a small white spot nearby the caudal peduncle (inner side) that is slowly growing in size and forming a fat round bag attached to the fin. It eats and swims just fine and it does not show any disease symptom. Some photos for reference: http://76.163.43.180/gcalin/kinguio1.jpg http://76.163.43.180/gcalin/kinguio2.jpg http://76.163.43.180/gcalin/kinguio3.jpg Anyone has any idea what it that? Some kind of parasite or genetic problem? Thank you! Gabriel

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 45208	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 12/17/2009
Subject: Re: Betta update

Not to be too gruesome, but I was just watching a recent CSI episode where this serial killer, who they call Dr. Jekyll, actually attached a sepsis appendix (removed from someone else) to a healthy person's normal appendix as his way of killing that person. If you watch CSI, you'll know what I'm talking about. This particular serial killer does something to the person's insides and then removes something from the person's home... like in a previous killing, he tied the person's intestines into a bowtie and then took a bowtie as a souvenir. In the appendix case, he added the sepsis appendix and then cut out part of the appendix of a nearby book. All that said... Dora, are you missing anything around your house? :-P BTW.. the last three paragraphs on this page goes into more detail about this latest CSI episode. http://www.imdb.com/title/tt1556287/synopsis They say that laughter is the best medicine so I hope this made you chuckle and feel a little better (BTW.. who is "they"?). Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of sevenspringss@... Sent: Thursday, December 17, 2009 9:19 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Betta update Dora, I must presume you had the operation Saturday to remove this busted appendix (?). Hope you're feeling better and GET WELL SOON!!! Ray</HTML>

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 45209	From: Dora Smith	Date: 12/17/2009
Subject: Re: Betta update

No, I had it Tuesday. He wanted to contain the infection. Yours, Dora Smith Austin, TX tiggernut24@... ----- Original Message ----- From: <sevenspringss@...> To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Thursday, December 17, 2009 9:18 AM Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Betta update Dora, I must presume you had the operation Saturday to remove this busted appendix (?). Hope you're feeling better and GET WELL SOON!!! Ray</HTML> ------------------------------------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the home page. Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com to receive the digest, which includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com for the No E-Mail option where you will still be able to read messages on the group and post replies. Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com to receive individual e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 45210	From: harry perry	Date: 12/17/2009
Subject: My Red Lotus

It's been dormant for over a year. No leaves just the bulb. It's in my 10 gal. plant grow out tank. No fish. A few snails. I pulled the bulb out of the gravel and just sat the very end in to stand it up. Turned the heat up to 80. Took 3 Jobe's Plant Spikes broke them in half and dropped them in the tank on top of the gravel just distributed here and there.  I had a small leaf started about 1/8" last week when I decided to try again. The leaf has grown an inch in a week. I think it's coming back. Good, I paid $14.00 for this sucker. I knew this would be a challenge. The plant is a high light plant put the tank isn't. Just a florescent bulb in the aquarium hood but planted right under the light. Light is on a timer 12 hours a day. This is where I experiment with algae control. There is no algae at all in this tank. However if I don't feed the plants it starts up. Since they're are no nutrients from fish the plants will use up what's there quickly. The plants will slow up and leave phosphates for the algae. Hope this helps folks with algae problems. Harry [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 45211	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 12/17/2009
Subject: Re: Fish Food Disaster

Noura, Less than the normal amount of whatever you normally feed. Peas, a bit more frequently may not be a bad idea either. \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of young.souls Sent: Thursday, December 17, 2009 7:47 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Fish Food Disaster What kind of diet, Green pea diet? Or just less amounts of his usual food? The foods I have are: Flakes, Tubifex worms, Blood worms, Sardine sinking pellets, and I occasionally feed them green peas, and rarely give them tiny amounts of crashed boiled egg white or raw meat. I usually alternate between them with more flakes and less Tubifex worms. Noura --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Steve Szabo" <steve@...> wrote: > > Noura, > > Mommy's little helper, eh? I'd just go ahead and feed as normal, though > maybe a little less for the next couple of days. Fish are opportunistic > eaters. Food present, eat. No food, don't eat and keep looking. Just keep an > eye on the betta. The "bloating" may be nothing more than an overfull gut, > and will slowly go down. If it does not, I'd probably separate him out and > put him on a strict diet while he loses the extra weight. > > \\Steve// > > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On > Behalf Of young.souls > Sent: Thursday, December 17, 2009 3:12 AM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Subject: [AquaticLife] Fish Food Disaster > > > Hi, > Yesterday night, my son climbed up to the 6G Guppy fry and Betta Tank and > emptied the flake food box in, there was about 1.5" of food in that > container, the whole substrate was covered with food. > > I discovered the disaster after about half an hour, of course the fish ate > like crazy and were totally full when I noticed what was going on. I > immediately prepared a bucket to transfer all the fish, I also transfered > the heater and bubble up filter. I used 25% new conditioned water and 75% > water from the 6G. > > The 6G finally became "clean & clear" through several fillings and emptying > and vaccuming the gravel with a python, all while stirring it constantly. I > heated the tank (I put about 1G of new water in)yesterday, and moved the > fish and filter back this morning. It's 2/3 full now, and I'm gradually > filling it to mentain temperature. > > All the fish look fine and may I say.. HUNGRY. They're dancing for me while > I'm typing this. > > My question is, should I fast them and for how long? The Guppies look normal > but the male Betta is bloated but active. > BTW, The substrate was NEVER that clean before! > > Noura >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 45212	From: Dora Smith	Date: 12/17/2009
Subject: Re: Fish Food Disaster

I think I'd do what Steve said. Yours, Dora Smith Austin, TX tiggernut24@... ----- Original Message ----- From: "Steve Szabo" <steve@...> To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Thursday, December 17, 2009 8:47 PM Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: Fish Food Disaster Noura, Less than the normal amount of whatever you normally feed. Peas, a bit more frequently may not be a bad idea either. \\Steve//

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 45213	From: gcalin2001	Date: 12/18/2009
Subject: Re: Koi parasite?

Hello Lenny, Thank you for your tips. They were all very helpful. About the questions you asked, my tank has 100G, so it might be a little small for my 4 fishes. As you pointed they grow a lot. I try to keep the water condition as good as possible. I do not have any live plants (it is VERY hard to keep anything planted with these fishes), but as you said I keep the substrate algae at a manageable level to help stabilize the water quality (it seen to be working so far). My goldfish (sorry my confusion about the KOI) is in my tank for about 5~6 years (this is the oldest fish I have). It grew from about 2 in. to its actual 7 in. As far I can tell it does not suffer from stress due to poor water quality or food quality. About the link you sent, I am not sure if it is the same problem. The photos shows only very flat small spots. I do not know if they can change in size and shape to be what I see here on my fish. To give you a size idea, my fish blister is about 1 in long, 1/2 in wide and perhaps 1/4 in thick. It is a big "bump" located in the inner part of the caudal fin. And it is slowing growing... I wondered if it could be a tumor, as you commented. In you experience, how common does this problem affect goldfishes? I find curious that it does not (apparently) bother my fish at all. I shows the same normal behavior as ever. Gabriel --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@...> wrote: > > Just to be clear, or maybe it's a language breakdown, but your fish is a > goldfish as far as I can tell since it looks like a goldfish and I do not > see any of the tell-tale barbels which ALL Koi have. > > It's probably not showing up as clearly to us, in the pictures, as it does > to you but from what I can see, it looks like it could be either a > miscellaneous tumor or more likely one of the pimple-like bumps that many > goldfish get and they have been tied to a herpes type virus strain in some > forums and others still speculate as to their cause. I have my theories > which I'll touch on later. I've compared them to the Herpes Simplex-1 virus > that is carried by many humans (and possibly some animals also) which form > as small bumps and can develop into larger blisters when certain stressful > situations occur, such as too much sun or sunburned lips or chapped lips > during the winter. The HS-1 virus resides in the nerve endings of certain > nerves and when these nerves get agitated, the virus rears it's sometimes > ugly head. It's commonly called Fever Blisters or Cold Sores but the virus > is basically the same virus that is also an STD called Genital Herpes since > the HS-1 virus can morph into and become Genital Herpes when... well.. I'm > getting back to fish now. LOL > > Read and look through all the photos on this page and see if this is what > you have... or something similar. > http://thegab.org/Illness-and-Treatment/ingrids-moor-rashi-and-the-mystery-s > pots.html > > Now, as to my theories as to why you may be seeing this event with your > goldfish. This is only a theory since I do not have enough information to > make this more conclusive. I'm not picking on you (merely pointing out my > observations) since most goldfish keepers have had the same issues when we > first started and did not know as much as we'd like to know. > > I count at least four goldfish in your tank and I see you have a LOT of > algae growing all over your substrate and decorations and probably on the > glass as well, although you probably clean the glass on a regular basis, I > see remnants of the algae down near the substrate. I also see red streaking > (visible blood vessels) in the tail fin of your affected fish. While red > streaking can be normal and is more likely to show up in white/clear fins, > red streaking can also be a result of water quality issues related to > elevated ammonia levels, stress (due to overcrowding, etc.) and/or worse > case scenario, hemorrhagic septicemia. Your fish appear to be healthy BUT > this does not mean they are not feeling more and more stressed from possibly > being overcrowded in your tank. Four goldfish, especially the long-bodied > variety, would need a tank of at least 200G. You did not indicate your tank > size but not many folks have 200G tanks so I'm basing my presumptions on > statistics. I do not see any live plants so it's actually good that you > have lots of algae as the algae helps to clean the water of pollution > (ammonia, nitrite, nitrate, phosphate, etc.) and takes in CO2 and puts out > O2 during photosynthesis... so DO NOT go trying to clean up all the algae as > it's actually a good thing in heavily stocked tanks. > > You mentioned that you added at least one new fish about a year ago but you > have to remember that goldfish are BIG fish and, like all fish, should be > stocked according to their expected adult size, not the size they are when > you get them. That little 1" feeder type goldfish that you might buy in a > store, will grow up to well over 12" and as much as 18" to 24" if not > stunted from being kept in an undersized home for too long. Fancy goldfish, > like the one bubble-eye that I saw in one of the pictures, might only grow > to 6" to 8" long but they have similar body mass to a long-bodied goldfish > twice their size. Mathematics proves that a goldfish body mass grows by > eight times for each time the goldfish doubles in length so an 8" fancy > goldfish is equal in body mass to over 500 1" goldfish. This is why > goldfish NEED to be in BIG tanks or ponds. > > It's usually a good idea to not mix long-bodied and round-bodied goldfish as > the round-bodied can't compete as well for food and if the round-bodied ends > up being a female, could get harassed to death by zealous long-bodied males > since the round-bodied female could not get away from the males. If you > ever see this happening, it would be very good if you remove one of the > fish. > > If your tank is at least 100G, you might be able to make it work for a > while, while the fish are still smaller, by doing 2x/week to 3x/week 25% to > 33% partial water changes (PWC's), vacuuming your gravel each time and > cleaning your filter media at least once a week.. or more often if needed. > These more frequent PWC's will simulate the tank being larger than it is > since you will be removing the fish hormones and other pollution levels more > often then when you were only doing tank maintenance once a week... > presuming you were doing weekly tank maintenance. Also, running an advanced > chemical filtration media like Purigen would also help with overstocked or > heavily stocked tanks or tanks with BIG fish. > > I have a couple of articles on my blog about Goldfish Care and stocking > levels. Start with my Goldfish Care sheet and there is a link to the > stocking article in my care sheet, as well as proven mathematical data to > support what I am saying here. > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right > side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) > > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On > Behalf Of gcalin2001 > Sent: Thursday, December 17, 2009 7:11 AM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Subject: [AquaticLife] Koi parasite? > > Hello everyone, > > I would appreciate some help from the group. I have a koi fish for over 5 > years (I do not add new fishes in the tank for over a year). About 6 months > ago it started to show a small white spot nearby the caudal peduncle (inner > side) that is slowly growing in size and forming a fat round bag attached to > the fin. > It eats and swims just fine and it does not show any disease symptom. > > Some photos for reference: > > http://76.163.43.180/gcalin/kinguio1.jpg > http://76.163.43.180/gcalin/kinguio2.jpg > http://76.163.43.180/gcalin/kinguio3.jpg > > Anyone has any idea what it that? Some kind of parasite or genetic problem? > > Thank you! > > Gabriel >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 45214	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 12/18/2009
Subject: Re: Koi parasite?

Seeing stress in goldfish is very difficult since they are such naturally *happy* fish... but unfortunately, I can assure you that your fish are feeling stress by the fact that they are stunted. Goldfish should grow the most and fastest in the first 1-3 years (which is why it's so important to have them in the proper sized home from the beginning) and they should reach nearly full size (at least 90% of adult size) in this same period. Since your long-bodied goldfish is only 7" after 5-6 years, when it should be 12"+ means that it is stunted. God (or Mother Nature) built this stunting mechanism into fish as a way of trying to help them live a reasonable life when they are stuck in overstocked conditions or in an undersized home but it's a catch-22 (or a rock and a hard place) situation for the fish because a stunted fish has a lot more health issues and generally lives a much shorter life span than non-stunted fish. As I previously stated, an aquarium fish keeper can partially alleviate this problem by doing more frequent PWC's (up to daily, if needed) to simulate a larger water volume since the PWC's will constantly be diluting the hormone levels that cause the stunting. This has been proven in laboratory conditions where BIG fish were kept in 10G tanks that had constant fresh water flowing into them with the *dirty* water going down a drain and these fish grew to full size in the proper time frame because the hormones were being washed away every day by the constant flow of fresh water so the fish never realized that it was in such a small home. These laboratory experiments were mainly done for the fisheries industry to help fish farmers grow their fish to full size because pond raised fish were so heavily stocked, they were getting stunted and not growing to proper size. Once they learned that having a constant flow of fresh water (and/or advanced filtration when a constant supply of fresh water was not available), these pond raised food fish grew to normal size more quickly. Now, back to your issue more specifically. Thanks for your description. I could not tell the "blister" was so large from your photos even though they were very good photos. Your issue sounds more like a tumor or other growth, instead of the herpes type viral blisters that I previously mentioned and linked. I did go back and re-look at your photos and blew them up to 400% (using IE8's magnifier) and I could see better what you were talking about, especially in the 3rd photo. Unfortunately, your issue looks more like a tumor than a cyst or blister, which are generally just fluid filled sacs whereas a tumor contains other cells/tissue and I believe I can see blood vessels inside the mass. Various tumors/cysts/growths are relatively common in goldfish, more so with fancy goldfish, I believe, due to the inbreeding of these fish to develop the fancy features. Your affected goldfish appears to be mostly long-bodied but has been affected by some inbreeding to develop the fancy tail fin since common goldfish and comets do not have such long/fancy tail fins. Most of the time, these tumors/cysts/growths (fluid filled sacs) are benign and do not bother the fish but there are things that other goldfish keepers have done in the past, such as aspirating the fluid filled sac when it starts to become a problem for the fish. Here's a long thread including photos, x-rays, surgery information, etc., to show what one fish keeper did to try and alleviate the condition for their goldfish. Actually, it's several threads/articles covering the work that was done so I'm giving you this link, http://thegab.org/Veterinary-Procedures/goldfish-veterinary-procedures.html. Scroll down to the section called "Wendylove's cyst in the peritoneal cavity" and read through the three links in that section for more details. You will also see other links on that page such as "Doc Johnson Removing a tumor from an oranda" and "WendyLove's Renal Cyst" and further down on the page, you'll see an NPR article about surgery on a fish to remove a cyst from below it's eye. Most of these procedures are done by veterinarians but average fish keepers have done the aspirating technique on their own with the help of these articles or after observing their veterinarian doing the procedure the first time, since often, even after aspiration, the sac will refill with fluid. As stated above, in your case, it looks more like a tumor rather than a cyst or other fluid filled sac but I'll leave that for you to decide since you can see the growth much better than I can with just the photos. After looking over all of the above articles/threads, let me know which medical condition most resembles what your fish has. Hopefully, it's just a benign growth and will never bother your fish but as you can see, there are veterinarians who are learning how to treat fish, mostly from folks with BIG pet fish, such as goldfish and Koi which live so long that it's worthwhile to the pet fish owner to try and save the fish or at least make it as comfortable as possible. BTW... I'm not sure if you realize it but common goldfish should live to 25+ years (record is 43 years) and fancy goldfish should live to 10+ years. Unfortunately, fancy goldfish live much shorter lives and have a lot more health issues due to the inbreeding that took place to develop all of the genetic mutations, called "fancy" for marketing purposes but all of these so-called "fancy" features are merely intentionally inbred genetic mutations. If other pet breeders were to try this with cats, dogs, etc.,.. inbreeding them to where they have six or eight lets, four eyes, bulging eyes, large growths on their heads, etc., these "Dr. Frankenstein's" would probably be stoned to death in a public square but somehow, us goldfish keepers have mostly given them a pass. I'm one of the few goldfish keepers (and yes, I also have a couple of fancy goldfish that I bought before learning more about how they were developed) that tells the truth about "fancy" goldfish when the subject comes up. I should probably make it a crusade but I save my crusading by trying to get ALL goldfish keepers to at least learn about what size tank they need for their goldfish. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of gcalin2001 Sent: Friday, December 18, 2009 5:28 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Koi parasite? Hello Lenny, Thank you for your tips. They were all very helpful. About the questions you asked, my tank has 100G, so it might be a little small for my 4 fishes. As you pointed they grow a lot. I try to keep the water condition as good as possible. I do not have any live plants (it is VERY hard to keep anything planted with these fishes), but as you said I keep the substrate algae at a manageable level to help stabilize the water quality (it seen to be working so far). My goldfish (sorry my confusion about the KOI) is in my tank for about 5~6 years (this is the oldest fish I have). It grew from about 2 in. to its actual 7 in. As far I can tell it does not suffer from stress due to poor water quality or food quality. About the link you sent, I am not sure if it is the same problem. The photos shows only very flat small spots. I do not know if they can change in size and shape to be what I see here on my fish. To give you a size idea, my fish blister is about 1 in long, 1/2 in wide and perhaps 1/4 in thick. It is a big "bump" located in the inner part of the caudal fin. And it is slowing growing... I wondered if it could be a tumor, as you commented. In you experience, how common does this problem affect goldfishes? I find curious that it does not (apparently) bother my fish at all. I shows the same normal behavior as ever. Gabriel --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@...> wrote: > > Just to be clear, or maybe it's a language breakdown, but your fish is > a goldfish as far as I can tell since it looks like a goldfish and I > do not see any of the tell-tale barbels which ALL Koi have. > > It's probably not showing up as clearly to us, in the pictures, as it > does to you but from what I can see, it looks like it could be either > a miscellaneous tumor or more likely one of the pimple-like bumps that > many goldfish get and they have been tied to a herpes type virus > strain in some forums and others still speculate as to their cause. I > have my theories which I'll touch on later. I've compared them to the > Herpes Simplex-1 virus that is carried by many humans (and possibly > some animals also) which form as small bumps and can develop into > larger blisters when certain stressful situations occur, such as too > much sun or sunburned lips or chapped lips during the winter. The > HS-1 virus resides in the nerve endings of certain nerves and when > these nerves get agitated, the virus rears it's sometimes ugly head. > It's commonly called Fever Blisters or Cold Sores but the virus is > basically the same virus that is also an STD called Genital Herpes > since the HS-1 virus can morph into and become Genital Herpes when... > well.. I'm getting back to fish now. LOL > > Read and look through all the photos on this page and see if this is > what you have... or something similar. > http://thegab.org/Illness-and-Treatment/ingrids-moor-rashi-and-the-mys > tery-s > pots.html > > Now, as to my theories as to why you may be seeing this event with > your goldfish. This is only a theory since I do not have enough > information to make this more conclusive. I'm not picking on you > (merely pointing out my > observations) since most goldfish keepers have had the same issues > when we first started and did not know as much as we'd like to know. > > I count at least four goldfish in your tank and I see you have a LOT > of algae growing all over your substrate and decorations and probably > on the glass as well, although you probably clean the glass on a > regular basis, I see remnants of the algae down near the substrate. I > also see red streaking (visible blood vessels) in the tail fin of your > affected fish. While red streaking can be normal and is more likely > to show up in white/clear fins, red streaking can also be a result of > water quality issues related to elevated ammonia levels, stress (due > to overcrowding, etc.) and/or worse case scenario, hemorrhagic > septicemia. Your fish appear to be healthy BUT this does not mean > they are not feeling more and more stressed from possibly being > overcrowded in your tank. Four goldfish, especially the long-bodied > variety, would need a tank of at least 200G. You did not indicate > your tank size but not many folks have 200G tanks so I'm basing my > presumptions on statistics. I do not see any live plants so it's > actually good that you have lots of algae as the algae helps to clean > the water of pollution (ammonia, nitrite, nitrate, phosphate, etc.) > and takes in CO2 and puts out > O2 during photosynthesis... so DO NOT go trying to clean up all the > algae as it's actually a good thing in heavily stocked tanks. > > You mentioned that you added at least one new fish about a year ago > but you have to remember that goldfish are BIG fish and, like all > fish, should be stocked according to their expected adult size, not > the size they are when you get them. That little 1" feeder type > goldfish that you might buy in a store, will grow up to well over 12" > and as much as 18" to 24" if not stunted from being kept in an > undersized home for too long. Fancy goldfish, like the one bubble-eye > that I saw in one of the pictures, might only grow to 6" to 8" long > but they have similar body mass to a long-bodied goldfish twice their > size. Mathematics proves that a goldfish body mass grows by eight > times for each time the goldfish doubles in length so an 8" fancy > goldfish is equal in body mass to over 500 1" goldfish. This is why goldfish NEED to be in BIG tanks or ponds. > > It's usually a good idea to not mix long-bodied and round-bodied > goldfish as the round-bodied can't compete as well for food and if the > round-bodied ends up being a female, could get harassed to death by > zealous long-bodied males since the round-bodied female could not get > away from the males. If you ever see this happening, it would be very > good if you remove one of the fish. > > If your tank is at least 100G, you might be able to make it work for a > while, while the fish are still smaller, by doing 2x/week to 3x/week > 25% to 33% partial water changes (PWC's), vacuuming your gravel each > time and cleaning your filter media at least once a week.. or more often if needed. > These more frequent PWC's will simulate the tank being larger than it > is since you will be removing the fish hormones and other pollution > levels more often then when you were only doing tank maintenance once a week... > presuming you were doing weekly tank maintenance. Also, running an > advanced chemical filtration media like Purigen would also help with > overstocked or heavily stocked tanks or tanks with BIG fish. > > I have a couple of articles on my blog about Goldfish Care and > stocking levels. Start with my Goldfish Care sheet and there is a > link to the stocking article in my care sheet, as well as proven > mathematical data to support what I am saying here. > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles > referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically > under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) > > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] > On Behalf Of gcalin2001 > Sent: Thursday, December 17, 2009 7:11 AM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Subject: [AquaticLife] Koi parasite? > > Hello everyone, > > I would appreciate some help from the group. I have a koi fish for > over 5 years (I do not add new fishes in the tank for over a year). > About 6 months ago it started to show a small white spot nearby the > caudal peduncle (inner > side) that is slowly growing in size and forming a fat round bag > attached to the fin. > It eats and swims just fine and it does not show any disease symptom. > > Some photos for reference: > > http://76.163.43.180/gcalin/kinguio1.jpg > http://76.163.43.180/gcalin/kinguio2.jpg > http://76.163.43.180/gcalin/kinguio3.jpg > > Anyone has any idea what it that? Some kind of parasite or genetic problem? > > Thank you! > > Gabriel

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 45215	From: pyroteck1	Date: 12/18/2009
Subject: Re: Python No Spill Clean 'N Fill

To make it squeeky clean you can make a cheap bottle brush combo using some VERY strong/thick fishing line attached to a small brush and feed it through the tube and pull it back out. Works like a charm.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 45216	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 12/18/2009
Subject: Re: Python No Spill Clean 'N Fill

The way I get the string through the hose is to use a vacuum cleaner hose on one end and suck the line through. I've never done this on my Python but I do use this method on the hoses for my canister filters every year or so, to clean any algae build up out of them. It actually works better for a thinner piece of string instead of something really thick. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of pyroteck1 Sent: Friday, December 18, 2009 5:21 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Python No Spill Clean 'N Fill To make it squeeky clean you can make a cheap bottle brush combo using some VERY strong/thick fishing line attached to a small brush and feed it through the tube and pull it back out. Works like a charm.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 45217	From: greyclouds99	Date: 12/19/2009
Subject: Angelfish Update

Hi, Here are the news about my sick Angelfish, who had a disease in her eye. After repeating the Minocycline treatment for additional 5 days, I kept on preserving salt levels in the 15G. And did nothing more. The eye is well damaged, but didn't continue to wear out. Description of the current condition of the eye: cloudy, whitish, rinkly, a bit worn on the edge where the infection first started. I can still see the black pupil, the eye ball is moving with the healthy eye's movement but I'm sure it's blind, because the fish only comes up for food when I place it where the right eye can see it. There's also a tiny cottony spot on the pectoral fin's base, I noticed it about a week ago and it didn't change since then. Can she go back home now? or is it better to give her a longer salt treatment to ensure that the illness has done its damage and stopped? Tristan

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 45218	From: young.souls	Date: 12/19/2009
Subject: Re: Fish Food Disaster

Thanks Steve, I fed the fish a little less than usual for two days and the Betta is not bloated anymore. Everything in the tank is back to normal. Oh, I took all the food containers out of my son's reach. Noura --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Steve Szabo" <steve@...> wrote: > > Noura, > > Less than the normal amount of whatever you normally feed. Peas, a bit more > frequently may not be a bad idea either. > > \\Steve// > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On > Behalf Of young.souls > Sent: Thursday, December 17, 2009 7:47 AM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Fish Food Disaster > > > What kind of diet, Green pea diet? Or just less amounts of his usual food? > The foods I have are: Flakes, Tubifex worms, Blood worms, Sardine sinking > pellets, and I occasionally feed them green peas, and rarely give them tiny > amounts of crashed boiled egg white or raw meat. I usually alternate between > them with more flakes and less Tubifex worms. > > Noura >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 45219	From: sevenspringss@wmconnect.com	Date: 12/19/2009
Subject: Re: Angelfish Update

Tristan, It's good to hear that your fish survived this ordeal. Looks like the Minocycline must have done something, with your being able to dissolve it better (?), since it at least arrested this disease without it getting much worse. I don't quite recall at this moment, but I believe you said you have 3 Angels in all -- if not, please correct this. If I'm right about this number, you'll need to watch the interactions between this Angelfish and others. Other Angelfish may try taking advantage of being able to approach this one from its blind side now, and give it an aggressive peck or two since it will be more vulnerable. I don't like to hear of the cottony spot at the pectoral fin's base. This seems to indicate the manifestation of fungus. I'd hate to have you medicate this fish again, as some medications can be somewhat stressful for fish -- even if only to a lesser degree -- and I wouldn't even know what's available to you to try, anyway. I would not yet tranfer this fish back into the 37 gallon tank, but instead keep an eye on it with possibly adding additional sale if your level is only moderate (meaning, more specifically, in the vicinity of 2 teaspoons per gallon). Unless you're already maintaining 3 teaspoons per gallon, you may add more to get it up to this amount. You shouldn't need more, even though many larger South American Cichlids can take up to double this amount if added gradually -- I've had Discus up to 6 tsp per gallon. Don't forget to remove the salt slowly too, when getting ready to transfer this fish back. Keep observing this fish for another day or two to see if this growth progresses. You may need to topically disinfect that area, if you have any mercurochrome or iodine, being careful not to get it near the gills. While I don't know what's available to you, mercurochrome has been banned here for human use, but you may still be able to obtain it. I still keep it on hand for use on fish though, if needed, even though it can no longer be bought. Ray </HTML>

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 45220	From: Larry	Date: 12/19/2009
Subject: Re: Python No Spill Clean 'N Fill

Before and After each use of the Python Vac I run 130 degree water through the whole system for 4 to 5 minutes...keeps the algae and anything else from growing in the tubing...plus no chemicals to worry about. My hot water tank I can set to 130 degrees and run the unit through the hot water side in the sink...it is a tankless system so no chemical buildup. I also drain the tubing out while hot. Larry --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@...> wrote: > > The way I get the string through the hose is to use a vacuum cleaner hose on > one end and suck the line through. I've never done this on my Python but I > do use this method on the hoses for my canister filters every year or so, to > clean any algae build up out of them. It actually works better for a > thinner piece of string instead of something really thick. > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right > side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) > > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On > Behalf Of pyroteck1 > Sent: Friday, December 18, 2009 5:21 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Python No Spill Clean 'N Fill > > To make it squeeky clean you can make a cheap bottle brush combo using some > VERY strong/thick fishing line attached to a small brush and feed it through > the tube and pull it back out. > Works like a charm. >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 45221	From: young.souls	Date: 12/19/2009
Subject: Re: Angelfish Update

Impressive memory,Ray. There are still two juvenile Angelfish in the 34G. The fungi(?)on the pectoral right fin didn't change since I first noticed it. The present salt concentration is mild (2tsp/5gallons), I'll start raising it tonight. About the medications, I can get Iodine (I guess it's prefferable to use the aquatic solution rather than the alcoholic one , right?). But I will need detailed instructions on how to apply it, although I'm very nervous about taking a fish out of the water and treat it, I'll more comfortable about ME stepping into an elevator in spite of my claustrophobia! Tristan --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, sevenspringss@... wrote: > > > > Tristan, It's good to hear that your fish survived this ordeal. Looks > like the Minocycline must have done something, with your being able to dissolve > it better (?), since it at least arrested this disease without it getting > much worse. I don't quite recall at this moment, but I believe you said you > have 3 Angels in all -- if not, please correct this. If I'm right about > this number, you'll need to watch the interactions between this Angelfish and > others. Other Angelfish may try taking advantage of being able to approach > this one from its blind side now, and give it an aggressive peck or two since > it will be more vulnerable. > > I don't like to hear of the cottony spot at the pectoral fin's base. This > seems to indicate the manifestation of fungus. I'd hate to have you > medicate this fish again, as some medications can be somewhat stressful for fish -- > even if only to a lesser degree -- and I wouldn't even know what's > available to you to try, anyway. I would not yet tranfer this fish back into the 37 > gallon tank, but instead keep an eye on it with possibly adding additional > sale if your level is only moderate (meaning, more specifically, in the > vicinity of 2 teaspoons per gallon). Unless you're already maintaining 3 > teaspoons per gallon, you may add more to get it up to this amount. You shouldn't > need more, even though many larger South American Cichlids can take up to > double this amount if added gradually -- I've had Discus up to 6 tsp per > gallon. Don't forget to remove the salt slowly too, when getting ready to > transfer this fish back. > > Keep observing this fish for another day or two to see if this growth > progresses. You may need to topically disinfect that area, if you have any > mercurochrome or iodine, being careful not to get it near the gills. While I > don't know what's available to you, mercurochrome has been banned here for > human use, but you may still be able to obtain it. I still keep it on hand for > use on fish though, if needed, even though it can no longer be bought. Ray > </HTML> >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 45222	From: sevenspringss@wmconnect.com	Date: 12/19/2009
Subject: Re: Angelfish Update

Tristan, Not as good of a memory as you give me credit for. I said "37 gallon tank," it's a 34 gallon tank (close enough ?). Asa long as you have plenty of latitude in increase the salt, and that you internd on doing so, there's no need yet to start thinking about using any medication topically. Give the progressive salt treatment a try. It might clear this fungus once it gets near 2 teaspoons per gallon -- and should definitely act on it if you need to increase it towards 3 teaspoons per gallon. I wouldn't add much more than that, as you should see some results. If this remains more stubborn, then you may want to go to the iodine, even though you shouldn't need it. Use an old net, unless you don't mind it beinmg stained. Set aside a container of the fish's aquarium water to place it in before treating, but place the fish in this container still within the net. Lift it out of the water with the net and dab the area in question with the applicator of iodine. Count slowly up to 10 to allow the medication to act before placing the fish back in the container. Some of the iodine may come off into the water (better there than in the aquarium). If so, then remove the fish to the aquarium. The container water will have fulfilled its purpose of rinsing off any excess medication. Yes, the aquatic solution would be best. One application should be enough. Ray </HTML>

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 45223	From: greyclouds99	Date: 12/20/2009
Subject: Re: Angelfish Update

Ray, what kind of salt would you use for freshwater fish? My colleague, who has been "teaching" me the basics of the hobby, says she uses salt from mines, we call it rocky salt here, with no added iodine. I thought that maybe sea salt would be logically better-more naturally associated to fish? P.S: To my colleague, who now knows herself :), please remember to sign yourself out of Yahoo when you finish using the computer at work! Tristan --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, sevenspringss@... wrote: > > > > Tristan, Not as good of a memory as you give me credit for. I said "37 > gallon tank," it's a 34 gallon tank (close enough ?). Asa long as you have > plenty of latitude in increase the salt, and that you internd on doing so, > there's no need yet to start thinking about using any medication topically. > Give the progressive salt treatment a try. It might clear this fungus once > it gets near 2 teaspoons per gallon -- and should definitely act on it if you > need to increase it towards 3 teaspoons per gallon. > > I wouldn't add much more than that, as you should see some results. If > this remains more stubborn, then you may want to go to the iodine, even though > you shouldn't need it. Use an old net, unless you don't mind it beinmg > stained. Set aside a container of the fish's aquarium water to place it in > before treating, but place the fish in this container still within the net. > Lift it out of the water with the net and dab the area in question with the > applicator of iodine. Count slowly up to 10 to allow the medication to act > before placing the fish back in the container. Some of the iodine may come off > into the water (better there than in the aquarium). If so, then remove the > fish to the aquarium. The container water will have fulfilled its purpose > of rinsing off any excess medication. Yes, the aquatic solution would be > best. One application should be enough. Ray </HTML> >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 45224	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 12/20/2009
Subject: What's In Your Water

From the New York Times these are the sources they used as a basis for an article where they try to show how bad our water really is. Given that real science is often irrelevant to most reporters, the actual article is not of much importance, however, these resources can help you judge your water from public water supplies. Please note that you may need to register on the NYT site to gain access to these resources. Registration is free, and in all the years I have been registered, registration has given me nothing in the way of irritating e-mails and other come-ons. --------------------------- http://projects.nytimes.com/toxic-waters/contaminants http://tinyurl.com/ydlwbt7 What's in Your Water The 35-year-old federal law regulating tap water is so out of date that the water Americans drink can pose what scientists say are serious health risks - and still be legal. Examine whether contaminants in your water supply met two standards: the legal limits established by the Safe Drinking Water Act, and the typically stricter health guidelines. The data was collected by an advocacy organization, the Environmental Working Group, who shared it with The Times. . . . http://projects.nytimes.com/toxic-waters/contaminants/about http://tinyurl.com/ydx2ocu About the Data The New York Times analyzed the results of more than 19 million drinking-water tests performed by water systems in the District of Columbia and 45 states since 2004. An advocacy organization, the Environmental Working Group, collected that test data from every state willing to provide it, and shared it with The Times. Georgia, Louisiana, Mississippi, Tennessee and Kansas did not provide data. The Times verified the data by comparing a randomly selected sample with records collected from those states that responded to public records requests. . . . \\Steve//

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 45225	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 12/20/2009
Subject: Re: Angelfish Update

Tristan, When salt is required, I'll use a marine mix if I have it available. Kosher, also known as canning, salt is what I would normally use. And, in a pinch, table salt is perfectly acceptable. \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of greyclouds99 Sent: Sunday, December 20, 2009 3:08 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Angelfish Update Ray, what kind of salt would you use for freshwater fish? My colleague, who has been "teaching" me the basics of the hobby, says she uses salt from mines, we call it rocky salt here, with no added iodine. I thought that maybe sea salt would be logically better-more naturally associated to fish? P.S: To my colleague, who now knows herself :), please remember to sign yourself out of Yahoo when you finish using the computer at work! Tristan --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, sevenspringss@... wrote: > > > > Tristan, Not as good of a memory as you give me credit for. I said "37 > gallon tank," it's a 34 gallon tank (close enough ?). Asa long as you have > plenty of latitude in increase the salt, and that you internd on doing so, > there's no need yet to start thinking about using any medication topically. > Give the progressive salt treatment a try. It might clear this fungus once > it gets near 2 teaspoons per gallon -- and should definitely act on it if you > need to increase it towards 3 teaspoons per gallon. > > I wouldn't add much more than that, as you should see some results. If > this remains more stubborn, then you may want to go to the iodine, even though > you shouldn't need it. Use an old net, unless you don't mind it beinmg > stained. Set aside a container of the fish's aquarium water to place it in > before treating, but place the fish in this container still within the net. > Lift it out of the water with the net and dab the area in question with the > applicator of iodine. Count slowly up to 10 to allow the medication to act > before placing the fish back in the container. Some of the iodine may come off > into the water (better there than in the aquarium). If so, then remove the > fish to the aquarium. The container water will have fulfilled its purpose > of rinsing off any excess medication. Yes, the aquatic solution would be > best. One application should be enough. Ray </HTML> >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 45226	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 12/20/2009
Subject: Re: Angelfish Update

Plain Table salt, Rock Salt, even Plain Table Salt with Iodine are all OK to use for our aquariums. The low level of Iodine contained in Iodized Table Salt is so low that it's not an issue and further, the Iodine might really only cause a problem in an outdoor pond which gets direct sunlight as it is sunlight's affect on the Iodine that potentially can cause a problem... BUT... even then, it would only be a problem if the iodized salt was used at high levels and over a long period of time. Here's more reading all about Salt... http://www.skepticalaquarist.com/docs/health/salt.shtml - half way down the page goes into the Iodized salt questions. http://www.badmanstropicalfish.com/articles/article5.html http://badmanstropicalfish.com/articles/article22.html Do not use Sea Salt or Marine Salt. That has a LOT more chemicals in it than plain salt which would cause even more osmoregulatory issues with freshwater fish. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of greyclouds99 Sent: Sunday, December 20, 2009 2:08 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Angelfish Update Ray, what kind of salt would you use for freshwater fish? My colleague, who has been "teaching" me the basics of the hobby, says she uses salt from mines, we call it rocky salt here, with no added iodine. I thought that maybe sea salt would be logically better-more naturally associated to fish? P.S: To my colleague, who now knows herself :), please remember to sign yourself out of Yahoo when you finish using the computer at work! Tristan --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, sevenspringss@... wrote: > > > > Tristan, Not as good of a memory as you give me credit for. I said > "37 gallon tank," it's a 34 gallon tank (close enough ?). Asa long > as you have plenty of latitude in increase the salt, and that you > internd on doing so, there's no need yet to start thinking about using any medication topically. > Give the progressive salt treatment a try. It might clear this fungus > once it gets near 2 teaspoons per gallon -- and should definitely act > on it if you need to increase it towards 3 teaspoons per gallon. > > I wouldn't add much more than that, as you should see some results. > If this remains more stubborn, then you may want to go to the iodine, > even though you shouldn't need it. Use an old net, unless you don't > mind it beinmg stained. Set aside a container of the fish's aquarium > water to place it in before treating, but place the fish in this container still within the net. > Lift it out of the water with the net and dab the area in question > with the applicator of iodine. Count slowly up to 10 to allow the > medication to act before placing the fish back in the container. Some > of the iodine may come off into the water (better there than in the > aquarium). If so, then remove the fish to the aquarium. The > container water will have fulfilled its purpose of rinsing off any > excess medication. Yes, the aquatic solution would be best. One > application should be enough. Ray </HTML>

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 45227	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 12/20/2009
Subject: Nitrifying Bacteria

Ran across this PDF this morning. I admit that I have not finished reading it, but I do think it may be of value to some of you out there. Beware that it is highly scientific and will make tough going except for those who are scientists out there. http://aem.asm.org/cgi/reprint/62/8/2888.pdf http://tinyurl.com/ydabxa5 \\Steve//

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 45228	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 12/20/2009
Subject: Re: Angelfish Update

\\Steve//, In all of the articles/information (from known-to-be reputable sites) that I've read, they dissuade freshwater fish keepers from using Marine or Sea salt for therapeutic purposes as Marine Salts will raise the pH, which could be a contrary side effect and would also make low levels of ammonia much more toxic, if ammonia might be a problem. Here's a snip from BadmansTropicalFish.com... http://www.badmanstropicalfish.com/articles/article5.html "First off, some definitions. When we speak of "salt", this is a confusing term, because salts are a large heterogeneous group that consists of any ionically bound elements or compounds. The salt that most freshwater aquarists mean to speak of, however, is NaCl (sodium chloride). THIS SHOULD NOT BE CONFUSED WITH MARINE SALT, WHICH CONTAINS BUFFERS THAT ARE VERY HARMFUL TO MANY FRESHWATER FISH. Table salt is basically also NaCl, only with iodine added (the myth that iodized salt is harmful fish is largely false... iodine is a natural element that is needed in the diet of all fish, and is actually a supplement in many fish foods... the only thing in table salt of real harm to FW fish are the decaking agents, which are very low in concentration)." (END SNIP) The SkepticalAquarist.com says... http://www.skepticalaquarist.com/docs/health/salt.shtml Rock salt. Kosher salt. "Aquarium" salt. Marine salt. Rift Lake salts... What kind of salt to be using? "Salt" is the generic term for the dissolved ions and mineral component of all natural waters, which covers salts like Epsom salts, which is magnesium sulfate, characteristic of the spa waters at Epsom in England. (No, not "Epsom's" salt; "Dr. Epsom" will not be in today--— or ever!) "Sea water is still better than salt crystals," Mr. Innes wrote in 1935. I'd say "different" rather than "better." Sodium chloride represents only about 77% of the total dissolved solids in seawater, and marine salt's dissolved carbonates will raise your pH. When we're talking about just plain "salt" we mean NaCl, sodium chloride, which is kosher salt or rock salt ("Animal feed grade" rock salt meets high standards of purity.) "Halite" is simply a lower grade of rock salt. Impurities may color it gray or even brownish. The "halite" sold for de-icing driveways, etc. isn't pure enough for aquarium uses, as you already surmised. "Table salt" often has iodine added, not the mythic poison it's made out to be, an issue separately addressed in a few moments. Table salt often contains as well some free-running additives, like magnesium carbonate, magnesium stereate or silicon dioxide--— all harmless. "Aquarium" salt is nothing but marine salt ("sea salt") that has been repackaged for the hobby and presented by colorful non-union toons in lab coats; check the label. Marine salts and Rift Lake salts contain many trace elements ("electrolytes") in addition to plain therapeutic NaCl. They are not substitutes for rock salt, nor vice versa. Nor substitutes for one another. Rift Lake waters actually contain surprisingly low concentrations of sodium chloride. As RTR pointed out, the other solutes in marine salt and Rift Lake salts will boost pH and hardness. You don't want to needlessly change those parameters as part of a medicating salt regimen. (END SNIP) Another BadmansTropicalFish.com article says... http://badmanstropicalfish.com/articles/article22.html The composition of marine salt is: Element ppm Chloride, Cl 19,500 Sodium, Na 10,770 Magnesium, Mg 1,290 Sulphur, S 905 Calcium, Ca 412 Potassium, K 380 Bromine, Br 67 Carbon, C 28 Nitrogen, N 11.5 Strontium, Sr 8 Oxygen, O 6 Boron, B 4.4 Silicon, Si 2 Fluorine, F 1.3 Argon, Ar 0.43 Lithium, Li 0.18 Rubidium, Rb 0.12 Phosphorus, P 0.06 Iodine, I 0.06 Barium, Ba 0.02 Molybdenium, Mo 0.01 Arsenic, As 0.0037 Uranium, U 0.0032 Vanadium, V 0.0025 Titanium, Ti 0.001 Zinc, Zn 0.0005 Nickel, Ni 0.00048 Aluminium, Al 0.0004 Cesium, Cs 0.0004 Chromium, Cr 0.0003 Antimony, Sb 0.00024 Krypton, Kr 0.0002 Selenium, Se 0.0002 Neon, Ne 0.00012 Manganese, Mn 0.0001 Cadmium, Cd 0.0001 Copper, Cu 0.0001 Tungsten, W 0.0001 Iron, Fe 0.000055 Xenon, Xe 0.00005 Zirconium, Zr 0.00003 Bismuth, Bi 0.00002 Niobium, Nb 0.00001 Thallium, Tl 0.00001 Thorium, Th 0.00001 Hafnium, Hf 7 x 10-6 Helium, He 6.8 x 10-6 Beryllium, Be 5.6 x 10-6 Germanium, Ge 5 x 10-6 Gold, Au 4 x 10-6 Rhenium, Re 4 x 10-6 Cobalt, Co 3 x 10-6 Lanthanum, La 3 x 10-6 Neodymium, Nd 3 x 10-6 Lead, Pb 2 x 10-6 Silver, Ag 2 x 10-6 Tantalum, Ta 2 x 10-6 Gallium, Ga 2 x 10-6 Yttrium, Y 1.3 x 10-6 Mercury, Hg 1 x 10-6 Cerium, Ce 1 x 10-6 Dysprosium, Dy 9 x 10-7 Erbium, Er 8 x 10-7 Ytterbium, Yb 8 x 10-7 Gadolinium, Gd 7 x 10-7 Praseodymium, Pr 6 x 10-7 Scandium, Sc 6 x 10-7 Tin, Sn 6 x 10-7 Holmium, Ho 2 x 10-7 Lutetium, Lu 2 x 10-7 Thulium, Tm 2 x 10-7 Indium, In 1 x 10-7 Trebium, Tb 1 x 10-7 Palladium, Pd 5 x 10-8 Samarium, Sm 5 x 10-8 Tellurium, Te 1 x 10-8 Europium, Eu 1 x 10-8 Radium, Ra 7 x 10-11 Protactinium, Pa 5 x 10-11 Radon, Rn 6 x 10-16 Brackish water is simply sea water which is diluted. Thus, sea salt is the proper way to duplicate a brackish water environment. If you use 'aquarium salt' you are not duplicating the conditions native to brackish water but rather, making a sort of half hearted attempt. (END SNIP) Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Steve Szabo Sent: Sunday, December 20, 2009 5:42 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: Angelfish Update Tristan, When salt is required, I'll use a marine mix if I have it available. Kosher, also known as canning, salt is what I would normally use. And, in a pinch, table salt is perfectly acceptable. \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of greyclouds99 Sent: Sunday, December 20, 2009 3:08 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Angelfish Update Ray, what kind of salt would you use for freshwater fish? My colleague, who has been "teaching" me the basics of the hobby, says she uses salt from mines, we call it rocky salt here, with no added iodine. I thought that maybe sea salt would be logically better-more naturally associated to fish? P.S: To my colleague, who now knows herself :), please remember to sign yourself out of Yahoo when you finish using the computer at work! Tristan --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, sevenspringss@... wrote: > > > > Tristan, Not as good of a memory as you give me credit for. I said > "37 gallon tank," it's a 34 gallon tank (close enough ?). Asa long > as you have > plenty of latitude in increase the salt, and that you internd on doing > so, > there's no need yet to start thinking about using any medication topically. > Give the progressive salt treatment a try. It might clear this fungus once > it gets near 2 teaspoons per gallon -- and should definitely act on it > if you > need to increase it towards 3 teaspoons per gallon. > > I wouldn't add much more than that, as you should see some results. > If this remains more stubborn, then you may want to go to the iodine, > even though > you shouldn't need it. Use an old net, unless you don't mind it > beinmg stained. Set aside a container of the fish's aquarium water to > place it in > before treating, but place the fish in this container still within the net. > Lift it out of the water with the net and dab the area in question > with the > applicator of iodine. Count slowly up to 10 to allow the medication > to act > before placing the fish back in the container. Some of the iodine may come off > into the water (better there than in the aquarium). If so, then > remove the > fish to the aquarium. The container water will have fulfilled its > purpose > of rinsing off any excess medication. Yes, the aquatic solution would > be best. One application should be enough. Ray </HTML> > ------------------------------------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. 74/`7.88.><((((:>.74/`7.88.74/`7.8><((((:> 8.74/`7.8. , .74/`7..><((((:> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <:((((><.74/`7.88.74/`7.8<:((((><8.74/`7.8. , .74/`7..<:((((><74/`7.88. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the home page. Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com to receive the digest, which includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com for the No E-Mail option where you will still be able to read messages on the group and post replies. Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com to receive individual e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 45229	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 12/20/2009
Subject: Re: Angelfish Update

Lenny, I beg to differ here on use of marine salt in freshwater aquaria. The bulk of marine mixes is nothing more than plain salt. There are numerous other compounds and elements added to make it more like the ocean. However, none of these is in a concentration to affect the freshwater fish. In fact, it has often led to quicker healing of freshwater fish, in my experience. \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Lenny V. aka GoldLenny Sent: Sunday, December 20, 2009 9:54 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: Angelfish Update Plain Table salt, Rock Salt, even Plain Table Salt with Iodine are all OK to use for our aquariums. The low level of Iodine contained in Iodized Table Salt is so low that it's not an issue and further, the Iodine might really only cause a problem in an outdoor pond which gets direct sunlight as it is sunlight's affect on the Iodine that potentially can cause a problem... BUT... even then, it would only be a problem if the iodized salt was used at high levels and over a long period of time. Here's more reading all about Salt... http://www.skepticalaquarist.com/docs/health/salt.shtml - half way down the page goes into the Iodized salt questions. http://www.badmanstropicalfish.com/articles/article5.html http://badmanstropicalfish.com/articles/article22.html Do not use Sea Salt or Marine Salt. That has a LOT more chemicals in it than plain salt which would cause even more osmoregulatory issues with freshwater fish. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of greyclouds99 Sent: Sunday, December 20, 2009 2:08 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Angelfish Update Ray, what kind of salt would you use for freshwater fish? My colleague, who has been "teaching" me the basics of the hobby, says she uses salt from mines, we call it rocky salt here, with no added iodine. I thought that maybe sea salt would be logically better-more naturally associated to fish? P.S: To my colleague, who now knows herself :), please remember to sign yourself out of Yahoo when you finish using the computer at work! Tristan --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, sevenspringss@... wrote: > > > > Tristan, Not as good of a memory as you give me credit for. I said > "37 gallon tank," it's a 34 gallon tank (close enough ?). Asa long > as you have plenty of latitude in increase the salt, and that you > internd on doing so, there's no need yet to start thinking about using any medication topically. > Give the progressive salt treatment a try. It might clear this fungus > once it gets near 2 teaspoons per gallon -- and should definitely act > on it if you need to increase it towards 3 teaspoons per gallon. > > I wouldn't add much more than that, as you should see some results. > If this remains more stubborn, then you may want to go to the iodine, > even though you shouldn't need it. Use an old net, unless you don't > mind it beinmg stained. Set aside a container of the fish's aquarium > water to place it in before treating, but place the fish in this container still within the net. > Lift it out of the water with the net and dab the area in question > with the applicator of iodine. Count slowly up to 10 to allow the > medication to act before placing the fish back in the container. Some > of the iodine may come off into the water (better there than in the > aquarium). If so, then remove the fish to the aquarium. The > container water will have fulfilled its purpose of rinsing off any > excess medication. Yes, the aquatic solution would be best. One > application should be enough. Ray </HTML>

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 45230	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 12/20/2009
Subject: A List of DON'Ts from: 100 Years Of Fishkeeping... An article By Dr.

Does anyone else have some other "DON'Ts" that they think should be included in an updated list, since the below list is from 1921? I'm considering doing an updated article on my blog. One "Don't" that I thought of is: Don't suddenly change the pH or other water chemistry parameters of the water, either higher or lower. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) From... http://www.drtimsaquatics.com/Article_db_folder/page38/page38.html I would like to end this article with a few "don'ts." Anyone in the hobby for even a short period of time has heard these. Don't overfeed. Don't overcrowd. Don't use very deep aquaria. Don't start with expensive fish. Don't attempt to move filled large aquaria. Don't fail to replace covers on tropical aquaria. Don't always blame the dealer if your fishes die. Don't be too sure the family cat won't fish in the aquarium. Don't suddenly change the temperature of the water, either higher or lower. Don't overwork the aquarium hobby. It will last longer in moderation. Don't allow unconsumed food to remain in the aquarium. Remove with dip-tube. Don't fail to thoroughly disinfect an aquarium in which there has been a contagious disease. Don't place new fishes with your established fish until certain that they are not diseased. A week's quarantine is desirable. Don't attempt to grow aquatic plants in a very subdued light. They cannot prosper and will do more harm than good. Don't overlook the great possibilities of the native fish aquarium, both freshwater and marine. The terrarium, too, is well worthy of attention. Don't keep fishes in galvanized iron or zinc receptacles, nor have copper or brass in contact with aquarium water. Unseasoned wood is bad; unseasoned concrete is fatal. The above advice is both reasonable and astute and I wish I could take credit for it, but the words were written in 1921! Yes, these "don'ts" have been around since the beginning of the modern age of aquarium keeping. Treat them as advice from your experienced grandfather. They come from the book, "Goldfish Varieties and Tropical Aquarium Fishes" by William T. Innes. So even today, with all the advances and "modern" equipment, successful fishkeeping still can be traced to a few simple words of advice from the first part of this century. Good fishkeeping! (END SNIP)

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 45231	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 12/20/2009
Subject: Re: Nitrifying Bacteria

I thought it was going to be something new but it's one of Dr. Tim's articles from 1996 when he was doing all of the genetic/laboratory testing to figure out which are the proper strains of nitrifying bacteria, which ultimately led to his invention of Bio-Spira and now the more advanced Dr. Tim's One And Only. http://www.DrTimsAquatics.com has links to all of his other peer-reviewed articles related to nitrifying bacteria. There are several categories listed on this page - http://www.drtimsaquatics.com/Library_Presentations/Library_Presentations.ht ml. The "Aquarium Hobby" link would probably lead to the most easy to read articles. The article, "100 Years Of Fishkeeping..." http://www.drtimsaquatics.com/Article_db_folder/page38/page38.html might be of interest to you, Ray and others to see if it brings back memories of your childhood. ;-) Or in the AHHS group? Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Steve Szabo Sent: Sunday, December 20, 2009 9:14 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Nitrifying Bacteria Ran across this PDF this morning. I admit that I have not finished reading it, but I do think it may be of value to some of you out there. Beware that it is highly scientific and will make tough going except for those who are scientists out there. http://aem.asm.org/cgi/reprint/62/8/2888.pdf http://tinyurl.com/ydabxa5 \\Steve//

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 45232	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 12/20/2009
Subject: Re: Angelfish Update

Lenny, You are taking time away from my server migration. If salt is being used as a prophylactic, something I do not generally recommend, then I would not recommend the marine salt. However, for treating fish, for a short period of time, you will not experience any deleterious effects in using marine salt. In the amounts used for treatment, any rise in pH would be insignificant. As you can see, the listing of ingredients for an unnamed brand show not significant amounts of chemicals not found in freshwater already. The truth is, if you have it on hand, use it. Most people do not. I currently do not, and I am not going out to buy it since I do not need it for anything else right now--too expensive. I do have a partial 5 LB. bag of kosher salt that I will use when needed. I'll also use it occasionally for cooking as well. \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Lenny V. aka GoldLenny Sent: Sunday, December 20, 2009 10:38 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: Angelfish Update \\Steve//, In all of the articles/information (from known-to-be reputable sites) that I've read, they dissuade freshwater fish keepers from using Marine or Sea salt for therapeutic purposes as Marine Salts will raise the pH, which could be a contrary side effect and would also make low levels of ammonia much more toxic, if ammonia might be a problem. Here's a snip from BadmansTropicalFish.com... http://www.badmanstropicalfish.com/articles/article5.html "First off, some definitions. When we speak of "salt", this is a confusing term, because salts are a large heterogeneous group that consists of any ionically bound elements or compounds. The salt that most freshwater aquarists mean to speak of, however, is NaCl (sodium chloride). THIS SHOULD NOT BE CONFUSED WITH MARINE SALT, WHICH CONTAINS BUFFERS THAT ARE VERY HARMFUL TO MANY FRESHWATER FISH. Table salt is basically also NaCl, only with iodine added (the myth that iodized salt is harmful fish is largely false... iodine is a natural element that is needed in the diet of all fish, and is actually a supplement in many fish foods... the only thing in table salt of real harm to FW fish are the decaking agents, which are very low in concentration)." (END SNIP) The SkepticalAquarist.com says... http://www.skepticalaquarist.com/docs/health/salt.shtml Rock salt. Kosher salt. "Aquarium" salt. Marine salt. Rift Lake salts... What kind of salt to be using? "Salt" is the generic term for the dissolved ions and mineral component of all natural waters, which covers salts like Epsom salts, which is magnesium sulfate, characteristic of the spa waters at Epsom in England. (No, not "Epsom's" salt; "Dr. Epsom" will not be in today--— or ever!) "Sea water is still better than salt crystals," Mr. Innes wrote in 1935. I'd say "different" rather than "better." Sodium chloride represents only about 77% of the total dissolved solids in seawater, and marine salt's dissolved carbonates will raise your pH. When we're talking about just plain "salt" we mean NaCl, sodium chloride, which is kosher salt or rock salt ("Animal feed grade" rock salt meets high standards of purity.) "Halite" is simply a lower grade of rock salt. Impurities may color it gray or even brownish. The "halite" sold for de-icing driveways, etc. isn't pure enough for aquarium uses, as you already surmised. "Table salt" often has iodine added, not the mythic poison it's made out to be, an issue separately addressed in a few moments. Table salt often contains as well some free-running additives, like magnesium carbonate, magnesium stereate or silicon dioxide--— all harmless. "Aquarium" salt is nothing but marine salt ("sea salt") that has been repackaged for the hobby and presented by colorful non-union toons in lab coats; check the label. Marine salts and Rift Lake salts contain many trace elements ("electrolytes") in addition to plain therapeutic NaCl. They are not substitutes for rock salt, nor vice versa. Nor substitutes for one another. Rift Lake waters actually contain surprisingly low concentrations of sodium chloride. As RTR pointed out, the other solutes in marine salt and Rift Lake salts will boost pH and hardness. You don't want to needlessly change those parameters as part of a medicating salt regimen. (END SNIP) Another BadmansTropicalFish.com article says... http://badmanstropicalfish.com/articles/article22.html The composition of marine salt is: Element ppm Chloride, Cl 19,500 Sodium, Na 10,770 Magnesium, Mg 1,290 Sulphur, S 905 Calcium, Ca 412 Potassium, K 380 Bromine, Br 67 Carbon, C 28 Nitrogen, N 11.5 Strontium, Sr 8 Oxygen, O 6 Boron, B 4.4 Silicon, Si 2 Fluorine, F 1.3 Argon, Ar 0.43 Lithium, Li 0.18 Rubidium, Rb 0.12 Phosphorus, P 0.06 Iodine, I 0.06 Barium, Ba 0.02 Molybdenium, Mo 0.01 Arsenic, As 0.0037 Uranium, U 0.0032 Vanadium, V 0.0025 Titanium, Ti 0.001 Zinc, Zn 0.0005 Nickel, Ni 0.00048 Aluminium, Al 0.0004 Cesium, Cs 0.0004 Chromium, Cr 0.0003 Antimony, Sb 0.00024 Krypton, Kr 0.0002 Selenium, Se 0.0002 Neon, Ne 0.00012 Manganese, Mn 0.0001 Cadmium, Cd 0.0001 Copper, Cu 0.0001 Tungsten, W 0.0001 Iron, Fe 0.000055 Xenon, Xe 0.00005 Zirconium, Zr 0.00003 Bismuth, Bi 0.00002 Niobium, Nb 0.00001 Thallium, Tl 0.00001 Thorium, Th 0.00001 Hafnium, Hf 7 x 10-6 Helium, He 6.8 x 10-6 Beryllium, Be 5.6 x 10-6 Germanium, Ge 5 x 10-6 Gold, Au 4 x 10-6 Rhenium, Re 4 x 10-6 Cobalt, Co 3 x 10-6 Lanthanum, La 3 x 10-6 Neodymium, Nd 3 x 10-6 Lead, Pb 2 x 10-6 Silver, Ag 2 x 10-6 Tantalum, Ta 2 x 10-6 Gallium, Ga 2 x 10-6 Yttrium, Y 1.3 x 10-6 Mercury, Hg 1 x 10-6 Cerium, Ce 1 x 10-6 Dysprosium, Dy 9 x 10-7 Erbium, Er 8 x 10-7 Ytterbium, Yb 8 x 10-7 Gadolinium, Gd 7 x 10-7 Praseodymium, Pr 6 x 10-7 Scandium, Sc 6 x 10-7 Tin, Sn 6 x 10-7 Holmium, Ho 2 x 10-7 Lutetium, Lu 2 x 10-7 Thulium, Tm 2 x 10-7 Indium, In 1 x 10-7 Trebium, Tb 1 x 10-7 Palladium, Pd 5 x 10-8 Samarium, Sm 5 x 10-8 Tellurium, Te 1 x 10-8 Europium, Eu 1 x 10-8 Radium, Ra 7 x 10-11 Protactinium, Pa 5 x 10-11 Radon, Rn 6 x 10-16 Brackish water is simply sea water which is diluted. Thus, sea salt is the proper way to duplicate a brackish water environment. If you use 'aquarium salt' you are not duplicating the conditions native to brackish water but rather, making a sort of half hearted attempt. (END SNIP) Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Steve Szabo Sent: Sunday, December 20, 2009 5:42 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: Angelfish Update Tristan, When salt is required, I'll use a marine mix if I have it available. Kosher, also known as canning, salt is what I would normally use. And, in a pinch, table salt is perfectly acceptable. \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of greyclouds99 Sent: Sunday, December 20, 2009 3:08 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Angelfish Update Ray, what kind of salt would you use for freshwater fish? My colleague, who has been "teaching" me the basics of the hobby, says she uses salt from mines, we call it rocky salt here, with no added iodine. I thought that maybe sea salt would be logically better-more naturally associated to fish? P.S: To my colleague, who now knows herself :), please remember to sign yourself out of Yahoo when you finish using the computer at work! Tristan --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, sevenspringss@... wrote: > > > > Tristan, Not as good of a memory as you give me credit for. I said > "37 gallon tank," it's a 34 gallon tank (close enough ?). Asa long > as you have > plenty of latitude in increase the salt, and that you internd on doing > so, > there's no need yet to start thinking about using any medication topically. > Give the progressive salt treatment a try. It might clear this fungus once > it gets near 2 teaspoons per gallon -- and should definitely act on it > if you > need to increase it towards 3 teaspoons per gallon. > > I wouldn't add much more than that, as you should see some results. > If this remains more stubborn, then you may want to go to the iodine, > even though > you shouldn't need it. Use an old net, unless you don't mind it > beinmg stained. Set aside a container of the fish's aquarium water to > place it in > before treating, but place the fish in this container still within the net. > Lift it out of the water with the net and dab the area in question > with the > applicator of iodine. Count slowly up to 10 to allow the medication > to act > before placing the fish back in the container. Some of the iodine may come off > into the water (better there than in the aquarium). If so, then > remove the > fish to the aquarium. The container water will have fulfilled its > purpose > of rinsing off any excess medication. Yes, the aquatic solution would > be best. One application should be enough. Ray </HTML> >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 45233	From: sevenspringss@wmconnect.com	Date: 12/20/2009
Subject: Re: Angelfish Update

Tristan, For treating freshwater fish, I always use non-iodized Kosher salt as it has no additives (it's pure salt), especially as it's not intended to be a medium for these fish long-term. As \\Steve// also may do if he has it on hand, I too would also use marine salt mix if only as I believe it's more "natural" for any fish -- even freshwater fish short-term. While the minimal amount of iodine in table salt should not affect our fish, iodized salt is most often accompanied by anti-caking agents, which I prefer not to subject our fish to. Even if some iodized salt does not also contain anti-caking agents, the beginner aquarist may not be able to discern if it does or not. As for marine salt possibily causing more of an osmotic pressure issue, the way I see this is that when treating fish with this type of salt(s), the aquarist is using X-amount of it per gallon -- in other words, the additions of these TDS (Total Dissolved Solids) REMAINS THE SAME as though one were using pure table salt (Sodium Chloride), only that a portion of the Sodium Chloride is now being REPLACED by the other minerals and trace elements in varying amounts, as found in Sea Salt -- and while these may be considered "chemicals," they are NOT in the least harmful chemicals in those proportions found in Sea Water. It must be remembered, "chemicals," depending upon which ones were talking about, are not necessarily bad for organic life forms. All of the "chemicals" found in Sea Salt, in the proportions that they are found, are beneficial for Marine fishes, and will NOT adversely affect freshwater fishes in those same proportions -- especially when used in much lesser amounts as is 100% Sea Water. The oxygen we breathe is a chemical, as well as all of the other 91 naturally occurring elements on earth (and oxygen is not harmful to us, in the proportion that it's found in air). I really believe that Marine Salts are more beneficial for freshwater fishes as a result of all the trace elements found in it, when supplied to the fishes in the SAME concentration that you would use if you would be using Kosher Salt -- up to 3 Tablespoons per gallon for those fishes that can tolerate salt (or even more, if the fish in question would still be comfortable with it). Ray </HTML>

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 45234	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 12/20/2009
Subject: Re: Angelfish Update

Considering your and Ray's reply which followed, I'll stand corrected... for now. ;-) I'll have to email Badman and TheSkepticalAquarist so they can update their articles. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Steve Szabo Sent: Sunday, December 20, 2009 10:11 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: Angelfish Update Lenny, You are taking time away from my server migration. If salt is being used as a prophylactic, something I do not generally recommend, then I would not recommend the marine salt. However, for treating fish, for a short period of time, you will not experience any deleterious effects in using marine salt. In the amounts used for treatment, any rise in pH would be insignificant. As you can see, the listing of ingredients for an unnamed brand show not significant amounts of chemicals not found in freshwater already. The truth is, if you have it on hand, use it. Most people do not. I currently do not, and I am not going out to buy it since I do not need it for anything else right now--too expensive. I do have a partial 5 LB. bag of kosher salt that I will use when needed. I'll also use it occasionally for cooking as well. \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Lenny V. aka GoldLenny Sent: Sunday, December 20, 2009 10:38 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: Angelfish Update \\Steve//, In all of the articles/information (from known-to-be reputable sites) that I've read, they dissuade freshwater fish keepers from using Marine or Sea salt for therapeutic purposes as Marine Salts will raise the pH, which could be a contrary side effect and would also make low levels of ammonia much more toxic, if ammonia might be a problem. Here's a snip from BadmansTropicalFish.com... http://www.badmanstropicalfish.com/articles/article5.html "First off, some definitions. When we speak of "salt", this is a confusing term, because salts are a large heterogeneous group that consists of any ionically bound elements or compounds. The salt that most freshwater aquarists mean to speak of, however, is NaCl (sodium chloride). THIS SHOULD NOT BE CONFUSED WITH MARINE SALT, WHICH CONTAINS BUFFERS THAT ARE VERY HARMFUL TO MANY FRESHWATER FISH. Table salt is basically also NaCl, only with iodine added (the myth that iodized salt is harmful fish is largely false... iodine is a natural element that is needed in the diet of all fish, and is actually a supplement in many fish foods... the only thing in table salt of real harm to FW fish are the decaking agents, which are very low in concentration)." (END SNIP) The SkepticalAquarist.com says... http://www.skepticalaquarist.com/docs/health/salt.shtml Rock salt. Kosher salt. "Aquarium" salt. Marine salt. Rift Lake salts... What kind of salt to be using? "Salt" is the generic term for the dissolved ions and mineral component of all natural waters, which covers salts like Epsom salts, which is magnesium sulfate, characteristic of the spa waters at Epsom in England. (No, not "Epsom's" salt; "Dr. Epsom" will not be in today--— or ever!) "Sea water is still better than salt crystals," Mr. Innes wrote in 1935. I'd say "different" rather than "better." Sodium chloride represents only about 77% of the total dissolved solids in seawater, and marine salt's dissolved carbonates will raise your pH. When we're talking about just plain "salt" we mean NaCl, sodium chloride, which is kosher salt or rock salt ("Animal feed grade" rock salt meets high standards of purity.) "Halite" is simply a lower grade of rock salt. Impurities may color it gray or even brownish. The "halite" sold for de-icing driveways, etc. isn't pure enough for aquarium uses, as you already surmised. "Table salt" often has iodine added, not the mythic poison it's made out to be, an issue separately addressed in a few moments. Table salt often contains as well some free-running additives, like magnesium carbonate, magnesium stereate or silicon dioxide--— all harmless. "Aquarium" salt is nothing but marine salt ("sea salt") that has been repackaged for the hobby and presented by colorful non-union toons in lab coats; check the label. Marine salts and Rift Lake salts contain many trace elements ("electrolytes") in addition to plain therapeutic NaCl. They are not substitutes for rock salt, nor vice versa. Nor substitutes for one another. Rift Lake waters actually contain surprisingly low concentrations of sodium chloride. As RTR pointed out, the other solutes in marine salt and Rift Lake salts will boost pH and hardness. You don't want to needlessly change those parameters as part of a medicating salt regimen. (END SNIP) Another BadmansTropicalFish.com article says... http://badmanstropicalfish.com/articles/article22.html The composition of marine salt is: Element ppm Chloride, Cl 19,500 Sodium, Na 10,770 Magnesium, Mg 1,290 Sulphur, S 905 Calcium, Ca 412 Potassium, K 380 Bromine, Br 67 Carbon, C 28 Nitrogen, N 11.5 Strontium, Sr 8 Oxygen, O 6 Boron, B 4.4 Silicon, Si 2 Fluorine, F 1.3 Argon, Ar 0.43 Lithium, Li 0.18 Rubidium, Rb 0.12 Phosphorus, P 0.06 Iodine, I 0.06 Barium, Ba 0.02 Molybdenium, Mo 0.01 Arsenic, As 0.0037 Uranium, U 0.0032 Vanadium, V 0.0025 Titanium, Ti 0.001 Zinc, Zn 0.0005 Nickel, Ni 0.00048 Aluminium, Al 0.0004 Cesium, Cs 0.0004 Chromium, Cr 0.0003 Antimony, Sb 0.00024 Krypton, Kr 0.0002 Selenium, Se 0.0002 Neon, Ne 0.00012 Manganese, Mn 0.0001 Cadmium, Cd 0.0001 Copper, Cu 0.0001 Tungsten, W 0.0001 Iron, Fe 0.000055 Xenon, Xe 0.00005 Zirconium, Zr 0.00003 Bismuth, Bi 0.00002 Niobium, Nb 0.00001 Thallium, Tl 0.00001 Thorium, Th 0.00001 Hafnium, Hf 7 x 10-6 Helium, He 6.8 x 10-6 Beryllium, Be 5.6 x 10-6 Germanium, Ge 5 x 10-6 Gold, Au 4 x 10-6 Rhenium, Re 4 x 10-6 Cobalt, Co 3 x 10-6 Lanthanum, La 3 x 10-6 Neodymium, Nd 3 x 10-6 Lead, Pb 2 x 10-6 Silver, Ag 2 x 10-6 Tantalum, Ta 2 x 10-6 Gallium, Ga 2 x 10-6 Yttrium, Y 1.3 x 10-6 Mercury, Hg 1 x 10-6 Cerium, Ce 1 x 10-6 Dysprosium, Dy 9 x 10-7 Erbium, Er 8 x 10-7 Ytterbium, Yb 8 x 10-7 Gadolinium, Gd 7 x 10-7 Praseodymium, Pr 6 x 10-7 Scandium, Sc 6 x 10-7 Tin, Sn 6 x 10-7 Holmium, Ho 2 x 10-7 Lutetium, Lu 2 x 10-7 Thulium, Tm 2 x 10-7 Indium, In 1 x 10-7 Trebium, Tb 1 x 10-7 Palladium, Pd 5 x 10-8 Samarium, Sm 5 x 10-8 Tellurium, Te 1 x 10-8 Europium, Eu 1 x 10-8 Radium, Ra 7 x 10-11 Protactinium, Pa 5 x 10-11 Radon, Rn 6 x 10-16 Brackish water is simply sea water which is diluted. Thus, sea salt is the proper way to duplicate a brackish water environment. If you use 'aquarium salt' you are not duplicating the conditions native to brackish water but rather, making a sort of half hearted attempt. (END SNIP) Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Steve Szabo Sent: Sunday, December 20, 2009 5:42 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: Angelfish Update Tristan, When salt is required, I'll use a marine mix if I have it available. Kosher, also known as canning, salt is what I would normally use. And, in a pinch, table salt is perfectly acceptable. \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of greyclouds99 Sent: Sunday, December 20, 2009 3:08 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Angelfish Update Ray, what kind of salt would you use for freshwater fish? My colleague, who has been "teaching" me the basics of the hobby, says she uses salt from mines, we call it rocky salt here, with no added iodine. I thought that maybe sea salt would be logically better-more naturally associated to fish? P.S: To my colleague, who now knows herself :), please remember to sign yourself out of Yahoo when you finish using the computer at work! Tristan --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, sevenspringss@... wrote: > > > > Tristan, Not as good of a memory as you give me credit for. I said > "37 gallon tank," it's a 34 gallon tank (close enough ?). Asa long > as you have > plenty of latitude in increase the salt, and that you internd on doing > so, > there's no need yet to start thinking about using any medication topically. > Give the progressive salt treatment a try. It might clear this fungus once > it gets near 2 teaspoons per gallon -- and should definitely act on it > if you > need to increase it towards 3 teaspoons per gallon. > > I wouldn't add much more than that, as you should see some results. > If this remains more stubborn, then you may want to go to the iodine, > even though > you shouldn't need it. Use an old net, unless you don't mind it > beinmg stained. Set aside a container of the fish's aquarium water to > place it in > before treating, but place the fish in this container still within the net. > Lift it out of the water with the net and dab the area in question > with the > applicator of iodine. Count slowly up to 10 to allow the medication > to act > before placing the fish back in the container. Some of the iodine may come off > into the water (better there than in the aquarium). If so, then > remove the > fish to the aquarium. The container water will have fulfilled its > purpose > of rinsing off any excess medication. Yes, the aquatic solution would > be best. One application should be enough. Ray </HTML>

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 45235	From: sevenspringss@wmconnect.com	Date: 12/20/2009
Subject: Re: Nitrifying Bacteria

\\Steve//, I notice this article is co-authored by our own Dr. Tim (Hovanec). This should make for some very interesting reading; it's starting to look this way already. As it's a PDF file, I think I'll go ahead and print it out for easier reading at my leisure. Probably well worth keeping in the paper files anyway. Ray </HTML>

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 45236	From: bill 1433	Date: 12/20/2009
Subject: Re: Angelfish Update

I was wondering also?????  Ray, didn't you post sometime ago about also using this type of salt for hatching Baby Brine Shrimp for fry?   Bill --- On Sun, 12/20/09, sevenspringss@... <sevenspringss@...> wrote: From: sevenspringss@... <sevenspringss@...> Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: Angelfish Update To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Date: Sunday, December 20, 2009, 11:14 AM Tristan, For treating freshwater fish, I always use non-iodized Kosher salt as it has no additives (it's pure salt), especially as it's not intended to be a medium for these fish long-term.  As \\Steve// also may do if he has it on hand, I too would also use marine salt mix if only as I believe it's more "natural" for any fish -- even freshwater fish short-term.  While the minimal amount of iodine in table salt should not affect our fish, iodized salt is most often accompanied by anti-caking agents, which I prefer not to subject our fish to.  Even if some iodized salt does not also contain anti-caking agents, the beginner aquarist may not be able to discern if it does or not.  As for marine salt possibily causing more of an osmotic pressure issue, the way I see this is that when treating fish with this type of salt(s), the aquarist is using X-amount of it per gallon -- in other words, the additions of these TDS (Total Dissolved Solids) REMAINS THE SAME as though one were using pure table salt (Sodium Chloride), only that a portion of the Sodium Chloride is now being REPLACED by the other minerals and trace elements in varying amounts, as found in Sea Salt -- and while these may be considered "chemicals," they are NOT in the least harmful chemicals in those proportions found in Sea Water.  It must be remembered, "chemicals," depending upon which ones were talking about, are not necessarily bad for organic life forms.  All of the "chemicals" found in Sea Salt, in the proportions that they are found, are beneficial for Marine fishes, and will NOT adversely affect freshwater fishes in those same proportions -- especially when used in much lesser amounts as is 100% Sea Water.  The oxygen we breathe is a chemical, as well as all of the other 91 naturally occurring elements on earth (and oxygen is not harmful to us, in the proportion that it's found in air).  I really believe that Marine Salts are more beneficial for freshwater fishes as a result of all the trace elements found in it, when supplied to the fishes in the SAME concentration that you would use if you would be using Kosher Salt -- up to 3 Tablespoons per gallon for those fishes that can tolerate salt (or even more, if the fish in question would still be comfortable with it).  Ray </HTML> ------------------------------------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the home page.  Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com to receive the digest, which includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com for the No E-Mail option where you will still be able to read messages on the group and post replies. Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com to receive individual e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 45237	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 12/20/2009
Subject: Re: A List of DON'Ts from: 100 Years Of Fishkeeping... An article By

The "Don't use very deep aquaria" could probably be modified. A 72" deep aquarium would certainly be a no-no for most people, but a 36" deep one would certainly be within the realm of possibility. The real question is "What is meant by deep?". A "Don't" would be "Do not attempt to change your water chemistry to suit a fish, select your fish to suit your water chemistry." \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Lenny V. aka GoldLenny Sent: Sunday, December 20, 2009 11:00 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] A List of DON'Ts from: 100 Years Of Fishkeeping... An article By Dr. Tim Hovanec Does anyone else have some other "DON'Ts" that they think should be included in an updated list, since the below list is from 1921? I'm considering doing an updated article on my blog. One "Don't" that I thought of is: Don't suddenly change the pH or other water chemistry parameters of the water, either higher or lower. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) From... http://www.drtimsaquatics.com/Article_db_folder/page38/page38.html I would like to end this article with a few "don'ts." Anyone in the hobby for even a short period of time has heard these. Don't overfeed. Don't overcrowd. Don't use very deep aquaria. Don't start with expensive fish. Don't attempt to move filled large aquaria. Don't fail to replace covers on tropical aquaria. Don't always blame the dealer if your fishes die. Don't be too sure the family cat won't fish in the aquarium. Don't suddenly change the temperature of the water, either higher or lower. Don't overwork the aquarium hobby. It will last longer in moderation. Don't allow unconsumed food to remain in the aquarium. Remove with dip-tube. Don't fail to thoroughly disinfect an aquarium in which there has been a contagious disease. Don't place new fishes with your established fish until certain that they are not diseased. A week's quarantine is desirable. Don't attempt to grow aquatic plants in a very subdued light. They cannot prosper and will do more harm than good. Don't overlook the great possibilities of the native fish aquarium, both freshwater and marine. The terrarium, too, is well worthy of attention. Don't keep fishes in galvanized iron or zinc receptacles, nor have copper or brass in contact with aquarium water. Unseasoned wood is bad; unseasoned concrete is fatal. The above advice is both reasonable and astute and I wish I could take credit for it, but the words were written in 1921! Yes, these "don'ts" have been around since the beginning of the modern age of aquarium keeping. Treat them as advice from your experienced grandfather. They come from the book, "Goldfish Varieties and Tropical Aquarium Fishes" by William T. Innes. So even today, with all the advances and "modern" equipment, successful fishkeeping still can be traced to a few simple words of advice from the first part of this century. Good fishkeeping! (END SNIP)

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 45238	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 12/20/2009
Subject: Re: Nitrifying Bacteria

Hey, just because Ray and I can time travel to participate in the hobby as it was many years ago is no reason for you to pick on us. \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Lenny V. aka GoldLenny Sent: Sunday, December 20, 2009 11:01 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Nitrifying Bacteria I thought it was going to be something new but it's one of Dr. Tim's articles from 1996 when he was doing all of the genetic/laboratory testing to figure out which are the proper strains of nitrifying bacteria, which ultimately led to his invention of Bio-Spira and now the more advanced Dr. Tim's One And Only. http://www.DrTimsAquatics.com has links to all of his other peer-reviewed articles related to nitrifying bacteria. There are several categories listed on this page - http://www.drtimsaquatics.com/Library_Presentations/Library_Presentations.ht ml. The "Aquarium Hobby" link would probably lead to the most easy to read articles. The article, "100 Years Of Fishkeeping..." http://www.drtimsaquatics.com/Article_db_folder/page38/page38.html might be of interest to you, Ray and others to see if it brings back memories of your childhood. ;-) Or in the AHHS group? Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Steve Szabo Sent: Sunday, December 20, 2009 9:14 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Nitrifying Bacteria Ran across this PDF this morning. I admit that I have not finished reading it, but I do think it may be of value to some of you out there. Beware that it is highly scientific and will make tough going except for those who are scientists out there. http://aem.asm.org/cgi/reprint/62/8/2888.pdf http://tinyurl.com/ydabxa5 \\Steve//

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 45239	From: bill 1433	Date: 12/20/2009
Subject: Re: Nitrifying Bacteria

I'd like to also included myself here.  Time travel?   \\Steve//, you don't know this about me, Ray does, but for a time years ago I spent many a Saturday afternoon at the legendary "Barrett's" of Philadelphia.  Would this include me as a Time Traveler?   Bill From: Steve Szabo <steve@...> Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Nitrifying Bacteria To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Date: Sunday, December 20, 2009, 12:30 PM Hey, just because Ray and I can time travel to participate in the hobby as it was many years ago is no reason for you to pick on us. \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Lenny V. aka GoldLenny Sent: Sunday, December 20, 2009 11:01 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Nitrifying Bacteria I thought it was going to be something new but it's one of Dr. Tim's articles from 1996 when he was doing all of the genetic/laboratory testing to figure out which are the proper strains of nitrifying bacteria, which ultimately led to his invention of Bio-Spira and now the more advanced Dr. Tim's One And Only.  http://www.DrTimsAquatics.com has links to all of his other peer-reviewed articles related to nitrifying bacteria.  There are several categories listed on this page - http://www.drtimsaquatics.com/Library_Presentations/Library_Presentations.ht ml.  The "Aquarium Hobby" link would probably lead to the most easy to read articles. The article, "100 Years Of Fishkeeping..." http://www.drtimsaquatics.com/Article_db_folder/page38/page38.html might be of interest to you, Ray and others to see if it brings back memories of your childhood. ;-)  Or in the AHHS group? Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Steve Szabo Sent: Sunday, December 20, 2009 9:14 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Nitrifying Bacteria Ran across this PDF this morning. I admit that I have not finished reading it, but I do think it may be of value to some of you out there. Beware that it is highly scientific and will make tough going except for those who are scientists out there. http://aem.asm.org/cgi/reprint/62/8/2888.pdf http://tinyurl.com/ydabxa5 \\Steve// ------------------------------------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the home page.  Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com to receive the digest, which includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com for the No E-Mail option where you will still be able to read messages on the group and post replies. Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com to receive individual e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 45240	From: sevenspringss@wmconnect.com	Date: 12/20/2009
Subject: Re: Angelfish Update

Bill, If you're referring to Kosher salt, yes that's all I use for hatching BBS. It's more than adequate and it's relatively cheap (3 # for about $1.69) -- unless you want to buy bulk. I wouldn't use Marine salt for hatching shrimp though, even though it would be closest to their natural evironment; it's too expensive for that task. Ray [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 45241	From: bill 1433	Date: 12/20/2009
Subject: Re: Angelfish Update

Yes, I already have it in my notes but just wanted confirmation since we were already on the subject, I knew others "tuning-in" might just appreciate the cost factor you mentioned.   Bill --- On Sun, 12/20/09, sevenspringss@... <sevenspringss@...> wrote: From: sevenspringss@... <sevenspringss@...> Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: Angelfish Update To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Date: Sunday, December 20, 2009, 1:23 PM Bill,  If you're referring to Kosher salt, yes that's all I use for hatching BBS.  It's more than adequate and it's relatively cheap (3 # for about $1.69) -- unless you want to buy bulk.  I wouldn't use Marine salt for hatching shrimp though, even though it would be closest to their natural evironment; it's too expensive for that task.  Ray [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] ------------------------------------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the home page.  Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com to receive the digest, which includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com for the No E-Mail option where you will still be able to read messages on the group and post replies. Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com to receive individual e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 45242	From: sevenspringss@wmconnect.com	Date: 12/20/2009
Subject: Re: Nitrifying Bacteria

Bill, You may have noticed that I mentioned Franklin Barrett as one of the first Angelfish breeders, back in 1920. Knowing that you frequented Barrett's shop, I was expecting a comment from you. BTW, Did you bring some Angels back in time for him when you saw him last? <g> Ray [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 45243	From: bill 1433	Date: 12/20/2009
Subject: Re: Nitrifying Bacteria

No Ray, no bringing "back-in", but a lot of taking out!  My Mother and the neighbor lady from next store had very bad luck with the Angels.  To tell you the honest truth, I do believe they constantly over-fed the fish, dirtied the tank, got sick, then died.  Of course, at my age then, opening my mouth to either one of them was not an option.  I do recall washing a lot of gravel for them though.   It's not to my credit that I was any smarter than them.  It's just that I did have a few occasions to see, what, when and how these fish were fed.  The family by this time was well on the way to breeding them quite successfully as you know.  They were very nice people who always "took the time"; provided you asked any questions.  They were not mind readers but if you asked, they were more than willing to teach.  They, of course, also had excess to large amounts of live food (that was the purpose of my visits, Delphinia) they fed this to their Angles as I recall.   Bill --- On Sun, 12/20/09, sevenspringss@... <sevenspringss@...> wrote: From: sevenspringss@... <sevenspringss@...> Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Nitrifying Bacteria To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Date: Sunday, December 20, 2009, 1:33 PM Bill,  You may have noticed that I mentioned Franklin Barrett as one of the first Angelfish breeders, back in 1920.  Knowing that you frequented Barrett's shop, I was expecting a comment from you.  BTW, Did you bring some Angels back in time for him when you saw him last?  <g>  Ray [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] ------------------------------------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the home page.  Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com to receive the digest, which includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com for the No E-Mail option where you will still be able to read messages on the group and post replies. Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com to receive individual e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 45244	From: bill 1433	Date: 12/20/2009
Subject: Franklin Barrett

As Ray and I are reminiscing here over this legendarily man and his son,it occurred to me that many on this list may have little or no knowledge of either himself or the contributions to the hobby.   For those with interest here are some links on them:   http://www.goldfishsociety.org/philly_veil.html   http://www.fishchannel.com/freshwater-aquariums/fish-breeding/breeding-wild-discus.aspx   http://webspace.webring.com/people/jm/mydistantcousins/Barrett.html   Bill [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 45245	From: bill 1433	Date: 12/20/2009
Subject: Canister Filters?

Around early November, I request was submitted about the C series Marineland canister and possible leaks.  There was only a very small response.  My question is this.   When it comes to canister filters, what's the best bang for the buck.  I was very sold on the Rena XP2 but then doing a Goggle Search, I came across a video of the Marineland C series canister.  I was impressed to say the least.  Just the units' sheer size is awesome, let alone its filtering capabilities.   So what's the story folks?  What's the best canister filter staying in the $175 to $250 range?   Bill [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 45246	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 12/20/2009
Subject: Re: Canister Filters?

While Marineland certainly enjoyed a good reputation for a long time, they are no longer the company they use to be. They got bought out by the same company that owns Tetra and Dr. Tim is no longer with Marineland and he was the Chief Science Officer for them while they enjoyed their good reputation and breakthrough products like Bio-Spira, Bio-Wheels, etc. I don't know if I have the same confidence in them any longer since they have been taken over and split up their human IQ-base so much. All that said, if the new company hasn't messed with the design or manufacturing of the previous products, then they should still be good. At least, when Rena got bought out many years ago, they got bought out by a *better* company (API), not a lesser company (Tetra). IMO, Tetra is on the low end of the totem pole for quality and then Marineland lost so much of the human talent when they bought Marineland that I'm not sure if that acquisition made Marineland a better company/product line or not. I know that the Rena Filstar canister filters have been greatly improved since API took over Rena (which was formerly a French company but now is wholly owned by API, an American company). Have you compared the Marineland and Rena Filstars side by side? I'm not sure if I've seen any canister filters that have as large of a reservoir as the Rena's... when comparing prices. Now, one Marineland canister filter that I was interested in 5-6 years ago, but it's price was much higher than a comparable Rena Filstar, was the Marineland Magnum 350 Deluxe, which had a built in attachment for doing gravel vacuuming with the actual intake hose of the canister filter. Then, after POWER vacuuming the gravel, one could do filter maintenance and do a PWC (using buckets, etc.) without needing a Python or other powered siphon system to do better gravel vacuuming. I'm not sure why more canister filter companies haven't come up with their own modifications for this type of feature and since I have a Python, I never did work on a DIY modification although it wouldn't take much to make this modification... maybe I need a blog called "Pimp My Filter" with all the filter modifications I've made and continue to think about. ;-) Since you are interested in a price range, compare the biggest Rena Filstar in that price range with the biggest Marineland C in that price range and make your choice. I haven't done any side-by-side store comparisons in a LONG time. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of bill 1433 Sent: Sunday, December 20, 2009 2:32 PM To: AquaticLife Subject: [AquaticLife] Canister Filters? Around early November, I request was submitted about the C series Marineland canister and possible leaks.  There was only a very small response.  My question is this.   When it comes to canister filters, what's the best bang for the buck.  I was very sold on the Rena XP2 but then doing a Goggle Search, I came across a video of the Marineland C series canister.  I was impressed to say the least.  Just the units' sheer size is awesome, let alone its filtering capabilities.   So what's the story folks?  What's the best canister filter staying in the $175 to $250 range?   Bill

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 45247	From: bill 1433	Date: 12/20/2009
Subject: Re: Canister Filters?

Thanks Len,   If you Goggle the Marineland and see the size of it on that video that alone might convince you.  It almost makes the Rena look like a toy and the cost is in line for both.  Filter media size wise, I would say is doubled.  Still talking about the same or output per gallon side by side.   Bill --- On Sun, 12/20/09, Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@...> wrote: From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@...> Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Canister Filters? To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Date: Sunday, December 20, 2009, 4:32 PM While Marineland certainly enjoyed a good reputation for a long time, they are no longer the company they use to be.  They got bought out by the same company that owns Tetra and Dr. Tim is no longer with Marineland and he was the Chief Science Officer for them while they enjoyed their good reputation and breakthrough products like Bio-Spira, Bio-Wheels, etc.  I don't know if I have the same confidence in them any longer since they have been taken over and split up their human IQ-base so much. All that said, if the new company hasn't messed with the design or manufacturing of the previous products, then they should still be good. At least, when Rena got bought out many years ago, they got bought out by a *better* company (API), not a lesser company (Tetra).  IMO, Tetra is on the low end of the totem pole for quality and then Marineland lost so much of the human talent when they bought Marineland that I'm not sure if that acquisition made Marineland a better company/product line or not.  I know that the Rena Filstar canister filters have been greatly improved since API took over Rena (which was formerly a French company but now is wholly owned by API, an American company). Have you compared the Marineland and Rena Filstars side by side?  I'm not sure if I've seen any canister filters that have as large of a reservoir as the Rena's... when comparing prices.  Now, one Marineland canister filter that I was interested in 5-6 years ago, but it's price was much higher than a comparable Rena Filstar, was the Marineland Magnum 350 Deluxe, which had a built in attachment for doing gravel vacuuming with the actual intake hose of the canister filter.  Then, after POWER vacuuming the gravel, one could do filter maintenance and do a PWC (using buckets, etc.) without needing a Python or other powered siphon system to do better gravel vacuuming.  I'm not sure why more canister filter companies haven't come up with their own modifications for this type of feature and since I have a Python, I never did work on a DIY modification although it wouldn't take much to make this modification... maybe I need a blog called "Pimp My Filter" with all the filter modifications I've made and continue to think about. ;-) Since you are interested in a price range, compare the biggest Rena Filstar in that price range with the biggest Marineland C in that price range and make your choice.  I haven't done any side-by-side store comparisons in a LONG time. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of bill 1433 Sent: Sunday, December 20, 2009 2:32 PM To: AquaticLife Subject: [AquaticLife] Canister Filters? Around early November, I request was submitted about the C series Marineland canister and possible leaks.  There was only a very small response.  My question is this.   When it comes to canister filters, what's the best bang for the buck.  I was very sold on the Rena XP2 but then doing a Goggle Search, I came across a video of the Marineland C series canister.  I was impressed to say the least.  Just the units' sheer size is awesome, let alone its filtering capabilities.   So what's the story folks?  What's the best canister filter staying in the $175 to $250 range?   Bill ------------------------------------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the home page.  Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com to receive the digest, which includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com for the No E-Mail option where you will still be able to read messages on the group and post replies. Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com to receive individual e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 45248	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 12/20/2009
Subject: Re: Nitrifying Bacteria

Bill, I am not familiar with the Barrett's you mention, and a quick Google did nothing to inform me. Can you write me off list to tell me about it? \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of bill 1433 Sent: Sunday, December 20, 2009 1:13 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Nitrifying Bacteria I'd like to also included myself here.  Time travel?   \\Steve//, you don't know this about me, Ray does, but for a time years ago I spent many a Saturday afternoon at the legendary "Barrett's" of Philadelphia.  Would this include me as a Time Traveler?   Bill From: Steve Szabo <steve@...> Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Nitrifying Bacteria To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Date: Sunday, December 20, 2009, 12:30 PM Hey, just because Ray and I can time travel to participate in the hobby as it was many years ago is no reason for you to pick on us. \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Lenny V. aka GoldLenny Sent: Sunday, December 20, 2009 11:01 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Nitrifying Bacteria I thought it was going to be something new but it's one of Dr. Tim's articles from 1996 when he was doing all of the genetic/laboratory testing to figure out which are the proper strains of nitrifying bacteria, which ultimately led to his invention of Bio-Spira and now the more advanced Dr. Tim's One And Only.  http://www.DrTimsAquatics.com has links to all of his other peer-reviewed articles related to nitrifying bacteria.  There are several categories listed on this page - http://www.drtimsaquatics.com/Library_Presentations/Library_Presentations.ht ml.  The "Aquarium Hobby" link would probably lead to the most easy to read articles. The article, "100 Years Of Fishkeeping..." http://www.drtimsaquatics.com/Article_db_folder/page38/page38.html might be of interest to you, Ray and others to see if it brings back memories of your childhood. ;-)  Or in the AHHS group? Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Steve Szabo Sent: Sunday, December 20, 2009 9:14 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Nitrifying Bacteria Ran across this PDF this morning. I admit that I have not finished reading it, but I do think it may be of value to some of you out there. Beware that it is highly scientific and will make tough going except for those who are scientists out there. http://aem.asm.org/cgi/reprint/62/8/2888.pdf http://tinyurl.com/ydabxa5 \\Steve// ------------------------------------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the home page.  Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com to receive the digest, which includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com for the No E-Mail option where you will still be able to read messages on the group and post replies. Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com to receive individual e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] ------------------------------------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the home page. Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com to receive the digest, which includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com for the No E-Mail option where you will still be able to read messages on the group and post replies. Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com to receive individual e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 45249	From: bill 1433	Date: 12/20/2009
Subject: Re: Nitrifying Bacteria

Will do,   Bill --- On Sun, 12/20/09, Steve Szabo <steve@...> wrote: From: Steve Szabo <steve@...> Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Nitrifying Bacteria To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Date: Sunday, December 20, 2009, 5:50 PM Bill, I am not familiar with the Barrett's you mention, and a quick Google did nothing to inform me. Can you write me off list to tell me about it? \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of bill 1433 Sent: Sunday, December 20, 2009 1:13 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Nitrifying Bacteria I'd like to also included myself here.  Time travel?   \\Steve//, you don't know this about me, Ray does, but for a time years ago I spent many a Saturday afternoon at the legendary "Barrett's" of Philadelphia.  Would this include me as a Time Traveler?   Bill From: Steve Szabo <steve@...> Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Nitrifying Bacteria To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Date: Sunday, December 20, 2009, 12:30 PM Hey, just because Ray and I can time travel to participate in the hobby as it was many years ago is no reason for you to pick on us. \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Lenny V. aka GoldLenny Sent: Sunday, December 20, 2009 11:01 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Nitrifying Bacteria I thought it was going to be something new but it's one of Dr. Tim's articles from 1996 when he was doing all of the genetic/laboratory testing to figure out which are the proper strains of nitrifying bacteria, which ultimately led to his invention of Bio-Spira and now the more advanced Dr. Tim's One And Only.  http://www.DrTimsAquatics.com has links to all of his other peer-reviewed articles related to nitrifying bacteria.  There are several categories listed on this page - http://www.drtimsaquatics.com/Library_Presentations/Library_Presentations.ht ml.  The "Aquarium Hobby" link would probably lead to the most easy to read articles. The article, "100 Years Of Fishkeeping..." http://www.drtimsaquatics.com/Article_db_folder/page38/page38.html might be of interest to you, Ray and others to see if it brings back memories of your childhood. ;-)  Or in the AHHS group? Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Steve Szabo Sent: Sunday, December 20, 2009 9:14 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Nitrifying Bacteria Ran across this PDF this morning. I admit that I have not finished reading it, but I do think it may be of value to some of you out there. Beware that it is highly scientific and will make tough going except for those who are scientists out there. http://aem.asm.org/cgi/reprint/62/8/2888.pdf http://tinyurl.com/ydabxa5 \\Steve// ------------------------------------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the home page.  Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com to receive the digest, which includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com for the No E-Mail option where you will still be able to read messages on the group and post replies. Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com to receive individual e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links       [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] ------------------------------------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the home page.  Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com to receive the digest, which includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com for the No E-Mail option where you will still be able to read messages on the group and post replies. Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com to receive individual e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links ------------------------------------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the home page.  Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com to receive the digest, which includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com for the No E-Mail option where you will still be able to read messages on the group and post replies. Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com to receive individual e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 45250	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 12/20/2009
Subject: Re: Canister Filters?

Which model are you looking at? That would help. Also a link to the video... although I think you'll see that the Rena is much larger based on the info that I found. According to a site that had dimensions on the Marineland's and sold both systems... http://www.petmountain.com/product/canister-filters/512050/marineland-perfec to-c-series-multistage-canister-filter.html Dimensions: C-160 - 8" x 8" x 12.5" C-220 - 8" x 8" x 14.5" C-360 - 8" x 8" x 16.5" - $169.95 (rated for 360GPH) (equals 1,056 cu in) http://www.petmountain.com/product/canister-filters/512050/marineland-perfec to-c-series-multistage-canister-filter.html has the Rena XP-3 for $184.95 (rated for 350GPH) but no dimensions listed. BUT.. this Amazon page has the XP-3 for $162.97 and has the dimensions listed. http://www.amazon.com/Canister-Filstar-Freshwater-Saltwater-Aquariums/dp/B00 0260FX4 (actually a Petco listing) Dimensions: XP-3 - 14 x 9 x 18 inches (equals 2,268 cu in) SO... A comparably sized Rena Filstar, the XP-3 (2,268 CI) is MUCH BIGGER.. over twice the size of the Marineland C-360 (1,056 CI)... and as far as ruggedness.. the Rena Filstar's are very heavy duty IMO. Find a store that sells both and go look at them side by side. What size tank were you putting this on? These are both rated for around a 100G tank although they could be used on a smaller tank. I know the Rena has a throttle valve if needed. Are you getting a NEW big tank for Christmas? This eBay'er has the Rena Filstar XP-3 for $133.95 (Buy It Now price) which is the best price I found with a Google Shopping search. http://cgi.ebay.com/RENA-FILSTAR-XP-3-NEW_W0QQitemZ140364317061QQcmdZViewIte mQQptZLH_DefaultDomain_0?hash=item20ae5d8185 Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of bill 1433 Sent: Sunday, December 20, 2009 4:38 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Canister Filters? Thanks Len,   If you Goggle the Marineland and see the size of it on that video that alone might convince you.  It almost makes the Rena look like a toy and the cost is in line for both.  Filter media size wise, I would say is doubled.  Still talking about the same or output per gallon side by side.   Bill --- On Sun, 12/20/09, Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@...> wrote: From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@...> Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Canister Filters? To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Date: Sunday, December 20, 2009, 4:32 PM While Marineland certainly enjoyed a good reputation for a long time, they are no longer the company they use to be.  They got bought out by the same company that owns Tetra and Dr. Tim is no longer with Marineland and he was the Chief Science Officer for them while they enjoyed their good reputation and breakthrough products like Bio-Spira, Bio-Wheels, etc.  I don't know if I have the same confidence in them any longer since they have been taken over and split up their human IQ-base so much. All that said, if the new company hasn't messed with the design or manufacturing of the previous products, then they should still be good. At least, when Rena got bought out many years ago, they got bought out by a *better* company (API), not a lesser company (Tetra).  IMO, Tetra is on the low end of the totem pole for quality and then Marineland lost so much of the human talent when they bought Marineland that I'm not sure if that acquisition made Marineland a better company/product line or not.  I know that the Rena Filstar canister filters have been greatly improved since API took over Rena (which was formerly a French company but now is wholly owned by API, an American company). Have you compared the Marineland and Rena Filstars side by side?  I'm not sure if I've seen any canister filters that have as large of a reservoir as the Rena's... when comparing prices.  Now, one Marineland canister filter that I was interested in 5-6 years ago, but it's price was much higher than a comparable Rena Filstar, was the Marineland Magnum 350 Deluxe, which had a built in attachment for doing gravel vacuuming with the actual intake hose of the canister filter.  Then, after POWER vacuuming the gravel, one could do filter maintenance and do a PWC (using buckets, etc.) without needing a Python or other powered siphon system to do better gravel vacuuming.  I'm not sure why more canister filter companies haven't come up with their own modifications for this type of feature and since I have a Python, I never did work on a DIY modification although it wouldn't take much to make this modification... maybe I need a blog called "Pimp My Filter" with all the filter modifications I've made and continue to think about. ;-) Since you are interested in a price range, compare the biggest Rena Filstar in that price range with the biggest Marineland C in that price range and make your choice.  I haven't done any side-by-side store comparisons in a LONG time. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of bill 1433 Sent: Sunday, December 20, 2009 2:32 PM To: AquaticLife Subject: [AquaticLife] Canister Filters? Around early November, I request was submitted about the C series Marineland canister and possible leaks.  There was only a very small response.  My question is this.   When it comes to canister filters, what's the best bang for the buck.  I was very sold on the Rena XP2 but then doing a Goggle Search, I came across a video of the Marineland C series canister.  I was impressed to say the least.  Just the units' sheer size is awesome, let alone its filtering capabilities.   So what's the story folks?  What's the best canister filter staying in the $175 to $250 range?   Bill

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 45251	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 12/20/2009
Subject: Phenomenon of Intersex Fish -- Legislation

http://oiiaustralia.com/press-release-kerry-moran-respond-phenomenon-interse x-fish/ http://tinyurl.com/y8vrqlx Press Release: Kerry, Moran Respond to Phenomenon of Intersex Fish by admin on Wednesday, 9 December, 2009 Kerry, Moran Respond to Phenomenon of Intersex Fish Joint bill would enable gov't action on chemicals found dangerous to the environment/public health Washington DC- Today, Congressman Jim Moran of Northern Virginia and Senator John Kerry of Massachusetts introduced legislation to explore linkages between hormone disrupting chemicals in the environment and everyday goods and the dramatic increase of autism, hyperactivity, diabetes, obesity, breast cancer, prostate cancer and other hormone related disorders. For years, scientists have noted strange anomalies in fish and wildlife in locations where endocrine disrupting chemicals (EDCs) are found. In the Potomac River, a recent study found an astounding 100 percent of small mouth bass in certain sites of the basin exhibited both male and female organs, a characteristic linked to EDCs. "These fish are the proverbial 'canaries in the coal mine,' a symptom of a larger sickness in our environment. The implications for humans are real and deeply troubling," said Congressman Moran, who worked with experts for roughly a year to craft the legislation. ------------<continued at link>------------- Looks like they spent more time on this bill than on the "health care" legislation. \\Steve//

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 45252	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 12/20/2009
Subject: Re: A List of DON'Ts from: 100 Years Of Fishkeeping... An article By

Don't you think a 36" deep tank would pose a problem for live plants... unless one had more advanced lighting? I like your other "Don't" though. That's a good one! What's the matter though... couldn't you find it in your heart to type "Don't" instead of "Do not..."... or did Outlook auto-correct it? LOL Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Steve Szabo Sent: Sunday, December 20, 2009 11:28 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] A List of DON'Ts from: 100 Years Of Fishkeeping... An article By Dr. Tim Hovanec The "Don't use very deep aquaria" could probably be modified. A 72" deep aquarium would certainly be a no-no for most people, but a 36" deep one would certainly be within the realm of possibility. The real question is "What is meant by deep?". A "Don't" would be "Do not attempt to change your water chemistry to suit a fish, select your fish to suit your water chemistry." \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Lenny V. aka GoldLenny Sent: Sunday, December 20, 2009 11:00 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] A List of DON'Ts from: 100 Years Of Fishkeeping... An article By Dr. Tim Hovanec Does anyone else have some other "DON'Ts" that they think should be included in an updated list, since the below list is from 1921? I'm considering doing an updated article on my blog. One "Don't" that I thought of is: Don't suddenly change the pH or other water chemistry parameters of the water, either higher or lower. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) From... http://www.drtimsaquatics.com/Article_db_folder/page38/page38.html I would like to end this article with a few "don'ts." Anyone in the hobby for even a short period of time has heard these. Don't overfeed. Don't overcrowd. Don't use very deep aquaria. Don't start with expensive fish. Don't attempt to move filled large aquaria. Don't fail to replace covers on tropical aquaria. Don't always blame the dealer if your fishes die. Don't be too sure the family cat won't fish in the aquarium. Don't suddenly change the temperature of the water, either higher or lower. Don't overwork the aquarium hobby. It will last longer in moderation. Don't allow unconsumed food to remain in the aquarium. Remove with dip-tube. Don't fail to thoroughly disinfect an aquarium in which there has been a contagious disease. Don't place new fishes with your established fish until certain that they are not diseased. A week's quarantine is desirable. Don't attempt to grow aquatic plants in a very subdued light. They cannot prosper and will do more harm than good. Don't overlook the great possibilities of the native fish aquarium, both freshwater and marine. The terrarium, too, is well worthy of attention. Don't keep fishes in galvanized iron or zinc receptacles, nor have copper or brass in contact with aquarium water. Unseasoned wood is bad; unseasoned concrete is fatal. The above advice is both reasonable and astute and I wish I could take credit for it, but the words were written in 1921! Yes, these "don'ts" have been around since the beginning of the modern age of aquarium keeping. Treat them as advice from your experienced grandfather. They come from the book, "Goldfish Varieties and Tropical Aquarium Fishes" by William T. Innes. So even today, with all the advances and "modern" equipment, successful fishkeeping still can be traced to a few simple words of advice from the first part of this century. Good fishkeeping! (END SNIP)

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 45253	From: bill 1433	Date: 12/20/2009
Subject: Re: Canister Filters?

No Len,   I think your wrong on this BUT------just in case, it's these old eyes of mine plaaying tricks again.  Catch this link and then follow to the video inside from the left/hand column.   http://www.marinelandc-series.com/   Bill --- On Sun, 12/20/09, Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@...> wrote: From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@...> Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Canister Filters? To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Date: Sunday, December 20, 2009, 6:10 PM Which model are you looking at?  That would help.  Also a link to the video... although I think you'll see that the Rena is much larger based on the info that I found. According to a site that had dimensions on the Marineland's and sold both systems... http://www.petmountain.com/product/canister-filters/512050/marineland-perfec to-c-series-multistage-canister-filter.html Dimensions: C-160 - 8" x 8" x 12.5" C-220 - 8" x 8" x 14.5" C-360 - 8" x 8" x 16.5" - $169.95 (rated for 360GPH) (equals 1,056 cu in) http://www.petmountain.com/product/canister-filters/512050/marineland-perfec to-c-series-multistage-canister-filter.html has the Rena XP-3 for $184.95 (rated for 350GPH) but no dimensions listed. BUT.. this Amazon page has the XP-3 for $162.97 and has the dimensions listed. http://www.amazon.com/Canister-Filstar-Freshwater-Saltwater-Aquariums/dp/B00 0260FX4 (actually a Petco listing) Dimensions: XP-3 - 14 x 9 x 18 inches (equals 2,268 cu in) SO... A comparably sized Rena Filstar, the XP-3 (2,268 CI) is MUCH BIGGER.. over twice the size of the Marineland C-360 (1,056 CI)...  and as far as ruggedness.. the Rena Filstar's are very heavy duty IMO.  Find a store that sells both and go look at them side by side. What size tank were you putting this on?  These are both rated for around a 100G tank although they could be used on a smaller tank.  I know the Rena has a throttle valve if needed.  Are you getting a NEW big tank for Christmas? This eBay'er has the Rena Filstar XP-3 for $133.95 (Buy It Now price) which is the best price I found with a Google Shopping search. http://cgi.ebay.com/RENA-FILSTAR-XP-3-NEW_W0QQitemZ140364317061QQcmdZViewIte mQQptZLH_DefaultDomain_0?hash=item20ae5d8185 Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of bill 1433 Sent: Sunday, December 20, 2009 4:38 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Canister Filters? Thanks Len,   If you Goggle the Marineland and see the size of it on that video that alone might convince you.  It almost makes the Rena look like a toy and the cost is in line for both.  Filter media size wise, I would say is doubled.  Still talking about the same or output per gallon side by side.   Bill --- On Sun, 12/20/09, Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@...> wrote: From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@...> Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Canister Filters? To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Date: Sunday, December 20, 2009, 4:32 PM While Marineland certainly enjoyed a good reputation for a long time, they are no longer the company they use to be.  They got bought out by the same company that owns Tetra and Dr. Tim is no longer with Marineland and he was the Chief Science Officer for them while they enjoyed their good reputation and breakthrough products like Bio-Spira, Bio-Wheels, etc.  I don't know if I have the same confidence in them any longer since they have been taken over and split up their human IQ-base so much. All that said, if the new company hasn't messed with the design or manufacturing of the previous products, then they should still be good. At least, when Rena got bought out many years ago, they got bought out by a *better* company (API), not a lesser company (Tetra).  IMO, Tetra is on the low end of the totem pole for quality and then Marineland lost so much of the human talent when they bought Marineland that I'm not sure if that acquisition made Marineland a better company/product line or not.  I know that the Rena Filstar canister filters have been greatly improved since API took over Rena (which was formerly a French company but now is wholly owned by API, an American company). Have you compared the Marineland and Rena Filstars side by side?  I'm not sure if I've seen any canister filters that have as large of a reservoir as the Rena's... when comparing prices.  Now, one Marineland canister filter that I was interested in 5-6 years ago, but it's price was much higher than a comparable Rena Filstar, was the Marineland Magnum 350 Deluxe, which had a built in attachment for doing gravel vacuuming with the actual intake hose of the canister filter.  Then, after POWER vacuuming the gravel, one could do filter maintenance and do a PWC (using buckets, etc.) without needing a Python or other powered siphon system to do better gravel vacuuming.  I'm not sure why more canister filter companies haven't come up with their own modifications for this type of feature and since I have a Python, I never did work on a DIY modification although it wouldn't take much to make this modification... maybe I need a blog called "Pimp My Filter" with all the filter modifications I've made and continue to think about. ;-) Since you are interested in a price range, compare the biggest Rena Filstar in that price range with the biggest Marineland C in that price range and make your choice.  I haven't done any side-by-side store comparisons in a LONG time. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of bill 1433 Sent: Sunday, December 20, 2009 2:32 PM To: AquaticLife Subject: [AquaticLife] Canister Filters? Around early November, I request was submitted about the C series Marineland canister and possible leaks.  There was only a very small response.  My question is this.   When it comes to canister filters, what's the best bang for the buck.  I was very sold on the Rena XP2 but then doing a Goggle Search, I came across a video of the Marineland C series canister.  I was impressed to say the least.  Just the units' sheer size is awesome, let alone its filtering capabilities.   So what's the story folks?  What's the best canister filter staying in the $175 to $250 range?   Bill ------------------------------------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the home page.  Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com to receive the digest, which includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com for the No E-Mail option where you will still be able to read messages on the group and post replies. Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com to receive individual e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 45254	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 12/20/2009
Subject: Re: Phenomenon of Intersex Fish -- Legislation

\\Steve// said: "Looks like they spent more time on this bill than on the "health care" legislation." \\Steve//, You're forgetting that the lying, cheating, crooked, scheming, spineless Washington, D.C. politicians couldn't figure out a way to take over 1/6th of the economy, create dozens of new federal programs and bureaucracies and raise trillions of dollars in new taxes on this EDC legislation... so they don't mind taking the time to "explore the linkage". Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Steve Szabo Sent: Sunday, December 20, 2009 5:14 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Phenomenon of Intersex Fish -- Legislation http://oiiaustralia.com/press-release-kerry-moran-respond-phenomenon-interse x-fish/ http://tinyurl.com/y8vrqlx Press Release: Kerry, Moran Respond to Phenomenon of Intersex Fish by admin on Wednesday, 9 December, 2009 Kerry, Moran Respond to Phenomenon of Intersex Fish Joint bill would enable gov't action on chemicals found dangerous to the environment/public health Washington DC- Today, Congressman Jim Moran of Northern Virginia and Senator John Kerry of Massachusetts introduced legislation to explore linkages between hormone disrupting chemicals in the environment and everyday goods and the dramatic increase of autism, hyperactivity, diabetes, obesity, breast cancer, prostate cancer and other hormone related disorders. For years, scientists have noted strange anomalies in fish and wildlife in locations where endocrine disrupting chemicals (EDCs) are found. In the Potomac River, a recent study found an astounding 100 percent of small mouth bass in certain sites of the basin exhibited both male and female organs, a characteristic linked to EDCs. "These fish are the proverbial 'canaries in the coal mine,' a symptom of a larger sickness in our environment. The implications for humans are real and deeply troubling," said Congressman Moran, who worked with experts for roughly a year to craft the legislation. ------------<continued at link>------------- Looks like they spent more time on this bill than on the "health care" legislation. \\Steve// ------------------------------------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. 74/`7.88.><((((:>.74/`7.88.74/`7.8><((((:> 8.74/`7.8. , .74/`7..><((((:> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <:((((><.74/`7.88.74/`7.8<:((((><8.74/`7.8. , .74/`7..<:((((><74/`7.88. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the home page. Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com to receive the digest, which includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com for the No E-Mail option where you will still be able to read messages on the group and post replies. Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com to receive individual e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 45255	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 12/20/2009
Subject: Re: A List of DON'Ts from: 100 Years Of Fishkeeping... An article By

Lenny, I'm in the middle of a server migration, creating a new domain as I go along, and I haven't even got to the part where I need to join all the machines to the new domain. I'm doing this stuff as I get the time. Do not was probably easier for me to type than Don't. \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Lenny V. aka GoldLenny Sent: Sunday, December 20, 2009 6:23 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] A List of DON'Ts from: 100 Years Of Fishkeeping... An article By Dr. Tim Hovanec Don't you think a 36" deep tank would pose a problem for live plants... unless one had more advanced lighting? I like your other "Don't" though. That's a good one! What's the matter though... couldn't you find it in your heart to type "Don't" instead of "Do not..."... or did Outlook auto-correct it? LOL Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Steve Szabo Sent: Sunday, December 20, 2009 11:28 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] A List of DON'Ts from: 100 Years Of Fishkeeping... An article By Dr. Tim Hovanec The "Don't use very deep aquaria" could probably be modified. A 72" deep aquarium would certainly be a no-no for most people, but a 36" deep one would certainly be within the realm of possibility. The real question is "What is meant by deep?". A "Don't" would be "Do not attempt to change your water chemistry to suit a fish, select your fish to suit your water chemistry." \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Lenny V. aka GoldLenny Sent: Sunday, December 20, 2009 11:00 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] A List of DON'Ts from: 100 Years Of Fishkeeping... An article By Dr. Tim Hovanec Does anyone else have some other "DON'Ts" that they think should be included in an updated list, since the below list is from 1921? I'm considering doing an updated article on my blog. One "Don't" that I thought of is: Don't suddenly change the pH or other water chemistry parameters of the water, either higher or lower. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) From... http://www.drtimsaquatics.com/Article_db_folder/page38/page38.html I would like to end this article with a few "don'ts." Anyone in the hobby for even a short period of time has heard these. Don't overfeed. Don't overcrowd. Don't use very deep aquaria. Don't start with expensive fish. Don't attempt to move filled large aquaria. Don't fail to replace covers on tropical aquaria. Don't always blame the dealer if your fishes die. Don't be too sure the family cat won't fish in the aquarium. Don't suddenly change the temperature of the water, either higher or lower. Don't overwork the aquarium hobby. It will last longer in moderation. Don't allow unconsumed food to remain in the aquarium. Remove with dip-tube. Don't fail to thoroughly disinfect an aquarium in which there has been a contagious disease. Don't place new fishes with your established fish until certain that they are not diseased. A week's quarantine is desirable. Don't attempt to grow aquatic plants in a very subdued light. They cannot prosper and will do more harm than good. Don't overlook the great possibilities of the native fish aquarium, both freshwater and marine. The terrarium, too, is well worthy of attention. Don't keep fishes in galvanized iron or zinc receptacles, nor have copper or brass in contact with aquarium water. Unseasoned wood is bad; unseasoned concrete is fatal. The above advice is both reasonable and astute and I wish I could take credit for it, but the words were written in 1921! Yes, these "don'ts" have been around since the beginning of the modern age of aquarium keeping. Treat them as advice from your experienced grandfather. They come from the book, "Goldfish Varieties and Tropical Aquarium Fishes" by William T. Innes. So even today, with all the advances and "modern" equipment, successful fishkeeping still can be traced to a few simple words of advice from the first part of this century. Good fishkeeping! (END SNIP)

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 45256	From: bill 1433	Date: 12/20/2009
Subject: Re: Canister Filters?

I guess you could say we would be looking at the Rena XP2 and the Marineland 220 they would be both for a 55-gallon setup, I think?   Bill --- On Sun, 12/20/09, Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@...> wrote: From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@...> Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Canister Filters? To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Date: Sunday, December 20, 2009, 6:10 PM Which model are you looking at?  That would help.  Also a link to the video... although I think you'll see that the Rena is much larger based on the info that I found. According to a site that had dimensions on the Marineland's and sold both systems... http://www.petmountain.com/product/canister-filters/512050/marineland-perfec to-c-series-multistage-canister-filter.html Dimensions: C-160 - 8" x 8" x 12.5" C-220 - 8" x 8" x 14.5" C-360 - 8" x 8" x 16.5" - $169.95 (rated for 360GPH) (equals 1,056 cu in) http://www.petmountain.com/product/canister-filters/512050/marineland-perfec to-c-series-multistage-canister-filter.html has the Rena XP-3 for $184.95 (rated for 350GPH) but no dimensions listed. BUT.. this Amazon page has the XP-3 for $162.97 and has the dimensions listed. http://www.amazon.com/Canister-Filstar-Freshwater-Saltwater-Aquariums/dp/B00 0260FX4 (actually a Petco listing) Dimensions: XP-3 - 14 x 9 x 18 inches (equals 2,268 cu in) SO... A comparably sized Rena Filstar, the XP-3 (2,268 CI) is MUCH BIGGER.. over twice the size of the Marineland C-360 (1,056 CI)...  and as far as ruggedness.. the Rena Filstar's are very heavy duty IMO.  Find a store that sells both and go look at them side by side. What size tank were you putting this on?  These are both rated for around a 100G tank although they could be used on a smaller tank.  I know the Rena has a throttle valve if needed.  Are you getting a NEW big tank for Christmas? This eBay'er has the Rena Filstar XP-3 for $133.95 (Buy It Now price) which is the best price I found with a Google Shopping search. http://cgi.ebay.com/RENA-FILSTAR-XP-3-NEW_W0QQitemZ140364317061QQcmdZViewIte mQQptZLH_DefaultDomain_0?hash=item20ae5d8185 Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of bill 1433 Sent: Sunday, December 20, 2009 4:38 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Canister Filters? Thanks Len,   If you Goggle the Marineland and see the size of it on that video that alone might convince you.  It almost makes the Rena look like a toy and the cost is in line for both.  Filter media size wise, I would say is doubled.  Still talking about the same or output per gallon side by side.   Bill --- On Sun, 12/20/09, Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@...> wrote: From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@...> Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Canister Filters? To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Date: Sunday, December 20, 2009, 4:32 PM While Marineland certainly enjoyed a good reputation for a long time, they are no longer the company they use to be.  They got bought out by the same company that owns Tetra and Dr. Tim is no longer with Marineland and he was the Chief Science Officer for them while they enjoyed their good reputation and breakthrough products like Bio-Spira, Bio-Wheels, etc.  I don't know if I have the same confidence in them any longer since they have been taken over and split up their human IQ-base so much. All that said, if the new company hasn't messed with the design or manufacturing of the previous products, then they should still be good. At least, when Rena got bought out many years ago, they got bought out by a *better* company (API), not a lesser company (Tetra).  IMO, Tetra is on the low end of the totem pole for quality and then Marineland lost so much of the human talent when they bought Marineland that I'm not sure if that acquisition made Marineland a better company/product line or not.  I know that the Rena Filstar canister filters have been greatly improved since API took over Rena (which was formerly a French company but now is wholly owned by API, an American company). Have you compared the Marineland and Rena Filstars side by side?  I'm not sure if I've seen any canister filters that have as large of a reservoir as the Rena's... when comparing prices.  Now, one Marineland canister filter that I was interested in 5-6 years ago, but it's price was much higher than a comparable Rena Filstar, was the Marineland Magnum 350 Deluxe, which had a built in attachment for doing gravel vacuuming with the actual intake hose of the canister filter.  Then, after POWER vacuuming the gravel, one could do filter maintenance and do a PWC (using buckets, etc.) without needing a Python or other powered siphon system to do better gravel vacuuming.  I'm not sure why more canister filter companies haven't come up with their own modifications for this type of feature and since I have a Python, I never did work on a DIY modification although it wouldn't take much to make this modification... maybe I need a blog called "Pimp My Filter" with all the filter modifications I've made and continue to think about. ;-) Since you are interested in a price range, compare the biggest Rena Filstar in that price range with the biggest Marineland C in that price range and make your choice.  I haven't done any side-by-side store comparisons in a LONG time. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of bill 1433 Sent: Sunday, December 20, 2009 2:32 PM To: AquaticLife Subject: [AquaticLife] Canister Filters? Around early November, I request was submitted about the C series Marineland canister and possible leaks.  There was only a very small response.  My question is this.   When it comes to canister filters, what's the best bang for the buck.  I was very sold on the Rena XP2 but then doing a Goggle Search, I came across a video of the Marineland C series canister.  I was impressed to say the least.  Just the units' sheer size is awesome, let alone its filtering capabilities.   So what's the story folks?  What's the best canister filter staying in the $175 to $250 range?   Bill ------------------------------------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the home page.  Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com to receive the digest, which includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com for the No E-Mail option where you will still be able to read messages on the group and post replies. Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com to receive individual e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 45257	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 12/20/2009
Subject: Re: Canister Filters?

I don't see where they give dimensions on their own site. I looked at most of the links on that page. However, I did Google some more and found another page on Amazon.com http://www.amazon.com/Marineland-C360-External-Canister-Filter/dp/B000NRTLVY that had these dimensions for the C-360. (Many of the other Google hits showed the smaller 8" x 8" x 16.5".) Product Dimensions: 13 x 11 x 17 inches (equals 2,431 cu in) so based on these dimensions, the C-360 is a little bigger than the Rena Filstar XP-3 which was 2,258 CI. But then, DrsFosterSmith.com, which is known for giving accurate descriptions, has this... http://www.drsfostersmith.com/Product/prod_display.cfm?pcatid=16744 10.75" x 13.38" x 17.25" h, (which is at least very similar to the above 13 x 11 x 17) DFS has this on the Rena Filstar XP-3... http://www.drsfostersmith.com/product/prod_display.cfm?pcatid=3602 9-1/2" x 8-1/2" x 17" So... based on the dimensions on DFS, which I'll concede are probably accurate, the Marineland C-360 is larger. This actual Rena page, found on the bottom of the main API site, http://www.rena.net/reference-center/filters/filter-specifications.aspx, shows the filter volume for the Rena Filstar XP-3 is "2 gallons", compared to 1 gallon for the XP-1 and 1.4 gallons for the XP-2. I like this dimension, compared to all of the above dimensions that are probably outside dimensions. 1 gallon = 231 CI so 2 gallons would be 462 CI of actual filter canister volume inside the reservoir. I tried finding the actual filter volume for the Marineland C-360 to no avail. I then Googled for comparison articles/forum threads and found these which compare an Eheim, the C-360 and the XP-3. I haven't read them yet. http://www.petfish.net/kb/entry/789/ http://www.cichlid-forum.com/phpBB/viewtopic.php?t=136425 http://www.aquariacentral.com/forums/archive/index.php/t-130007.html Here's a complaint on the C-360. http://www.cichlid-forum.com/phpBB/viewtopic.php?t=181505&sid=50457da4f8326a 0176fe4ec7a7fc00f5 The final decision, as usual, is all yours. You never mentioned if Santa is bringing you a BIG tank or not. ;-) Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of bill 1433 Sent: Sunday, December 20, 2009 5:26 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Canister Filters? No Len,   I think your wrong on this BUT------just in case, it's these old eyes of mine plaaying tricks again.  Catch this link and then follow to the video inside from the left/hand column.   http://www.marinelandc-series.com/   Bill --- On Sun, 12/20/09, Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@...> wrote: From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@...> Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Canister Filters? To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Date: Sunday, December 20, 2009, 6:10 PM Which model are you looking at?  That would help.  Also a link to the video... although I think you'll see that the Rena is much larger based on the info that I found. According to a site that had dimensions on the Marineland's and sold both systems... http://www.petmountain.com/product/canister-filters/512050/marineland-perfec to-c-series-multistage-canister-filter.html Dimensions: C-160 - 8" x 8" x 12.5" C-220 - 8" x 8" x 14.5" C-360 - 8" x 8" x 16.5" - $169.95 (rated for 360GPH) (equals 1,056 cu in) http://www.petmountain.com/product/canister-filters/512050/marineland-perfec to-c-series-multistage-canister-filter.html has the Rena XP-3 for $184.95 (rated for 350GPH) but no dimensions listed. BUT.. this Amazon page has the XP-3 for $162.97 and has the dimensions listed. http://www.amazon.com/Canister-Filstar-Freshwater-Saltwater-Aquariums/dp/B00 0260FX4 (actually a Petco listing) Dimensions: XP-3 - 14 x 9 x 18 inches (equals 2,268 cu in) SO... A comparably sized Rena Filstar, the XP-3 (2,268 CI) is MUCH BIGGER.. over twice the size of the Marineland C-360 (1,056 CI)...  and as far as ruggedness.. the Rena Filstar's are very heavy duty IMO.  Find a store that sells both and go look at them side by side. What size tank were you putting this on?  These are both rated for around a 100G tank although they could be used on a smaller tank.  I know the Rena has a throttle valve if needed.  Are you getting a NEW big tank for Christmas? This eBay'er has the Rena Filstar XP-3 for $133.95 (Buy It Now price) which is the best price I found with a Google Shopping search. http://cgi.ebay.com/RENA-FILSTAR-XP-3-NEW_W0QQitemZ140364317061QQcmdZViewIte mQQptZLH_DefaultDomain_0?hash=item20ae5d8185 Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of bill 1433 Sent: Sunday, December 20, 2009 4:38 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Canister Filters? Thanks Len,   If you Goggle the Marineland and see the size of it on that video that alone might convince you.  It almost makes the Rena look like a toy and the cost is in line for both.  Filter media size wise, I would say is doubled.  Still talking about the same or output per gallon side by side.   Bill --- On Sun, 12/20/09, Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@...> wrote: From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@...> Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Canister Filters? To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Date: Sunday, December 20, 2009, 4:32 PM While Marineland certainly enjoyed a good reputation for a long time, they are no longer the company they use to be.  They got bought out by the same company that owns Tetra and Dr. Tim is no longer with Marineland and he was the Chief Science Officer for them while they enjoyed their good reputation and breakthrough products like Bio-Spira, Bio-Wheels, etc.  I don't know if I have the same confidence in them any longer since they have been taken over and split up their human IQ-base so much. All that said, if the new company hasn't messed with the design or manufacturing of the previous products, then they should still be good. At least, when Rena got bought out many years ago, they got bought out by a *better* company (API), not a lesser company (Tetra).  IMO, Tetra is on the low end of the totem pole for quality and then Marineland lost so much of the human talent when they bought Marineland that I'm not sure if that acquisition made Marineland a better company/product line or not.  I know that the Rena Filstar canister filters have been greatly improved since API took over Rena (which was formerly a French company but now is wholly owned by API, an American company). Have you compared the Marineland and Rena Filstars side by side?  I'm not sure if I've seen any canister filters that have as large of a reservoir as the Rena's... when comparing prices.  Now, one Marineland canister filter that I was interested in 5-6 years ago, but it's price was much higher than a comparable Rena Filstar, was the Marineland Magnum 350 Deluxe, which had a built in attachment for doing gravel vacuuming with the actual intake hose of the canister filter.  Then, after POWER vacuuming the gravel, one could do filter maintenance and do a PWC (using buckets, etc.) without needing a Python or other powered siphon system to do better gravel vacuuming.  I'm not sure why more canister filter companies haven't come up with their own modifications for this type of feature and since I have a Python, I never did work on a DIY modification although it wouldn't take much to make this modification... maybe I need a blog called "Pimp My Filter" with all the filter modifications I've made and continue to think about. ;-) Since you are interested in a price range, compare the biggest Rena Filstar in that price range with the biggest Marineland C in that price range and make your choice.  I haven't done any side-by-side store comparisons in a LONG time. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of bill 1433 Sent: Sunday, December 20, 2009 2:32 PM To: AquaticLife Subject: [AquaticLife] Canister Filters? Around early November, I request was submitted about the C series Marineland canister and possible leaks.  There was only a very small response.  My question is this.   When it comes to canister filters, what's the best bang for the buck.  I was very sold on the Rena XP2 but then doing a Goggle Search, I came across a video of the Marineland C series canister.  I was impressed to say the least.  Just the units' sheer size is awesome, let alone its filtering capabilities.   So what's the story folks?  What's the best canister filter staying in the $175 to $250 range?   Bill

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 45258	From: Donna Ransome	Date: 12/20/2009
Subject: Re: Canister Filters?

Rena XP series, definitely. The only other brand I would consider in a canister is Eheim. _____ From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of bill 1433 Sent: Sunday, December 20, 2009 3:32 PM To: AquaticLife Subject: [AquaticLife] Canister Filters? Around early November, I request was submitted about the C series Marineland canister and possible leaks. There was only a very small response. My question is this. When it comes to canister filters, what's the best bang for the buck. I was very sold on the Rena XP2 but then doing a Goggle Search, I came across a video of the Marineland C series canister. I was impressed to say the least. Just the units' sheer size is awesome, let alone its filtering capabilities. So what's the story folks? What's the best canister filter staying in the $175 to $250 range? Bill [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 45259	From: pam andress	Date: 12/20/2009
Subject: Re: Canister Filters?

I love my fluvals. Pam Around early November, I request was submitted about the C series Marineland canister and possible leaks. There was only a very small response. My question is this. When it comes to canister filters, what's the best bang for the buck. I was very sold on the Rena XP2 but then doing a Goggle Search, I came across a video of the Marineland C series canister. I was impressed to say the least. Just the units' sheer size is awesome, let alone its filtering capabilities. So what's the story folks? What's the best canister filter staying in the $175 to $250 range? Bill [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 45260	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 12/20/2009
Subject: Re: Canister Filters?

Even an XP-1 would be OK for a properly stocked 55G tropical tank. In the beginning, I had an XP-1 on my 65G goldfish tank for a while before I upgraded it and it was sufficient although I was running an HOB on the other end of the tank since it was a goldfish tank.. but for tropical's only, I think it would be fine. I still use the two sponge blocks that came with it and I also use the blue/white poly-pad media for additional mechanical filtration with some micro polishing poly-pad media as the last stage (on top) to catch the really small stuff. The good thing about XP's are their assortment of intake and return setup's. I like the spray bar which has about eight 1/8" holes and I have this on one end of my 65G so it's spraying across the top of the waterline and you can visibly see debris flow across the surface, go down the other end and come back across the bottom. I then have the intake set up directly below the spray bar, but deep down nearly to the gravel, so that the debris has a good chance of getting sucked into the intake to be filtered out of the water column. Since my goldfish are always foraging the gravel for bits of food, they are constantly stirring up the detritus so I find the returning water also picks up a lot of this detritus to be filtered sucked in by the intake. If I ever decide to redo my tank, I'll probably improvise the intake with an intake similar to the spray bar so that I have the intake laying across the bottom with several intake points instead of just the one intake strainer in the back corner. I also like this DIY intake modification, which the author calls "The Ultimate Intake Tube", but I still might put it horizontally instead of vertically. http://www.goldfishconnection.com/articles/details.php?articleId=114&parentI d=10 Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of bill 1433 Sent: Sunday, December 20, 2009 7:08 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Canister Filters? I guess you could say we would be looking at the Rena XP2 and the Marineland 220 they would be both for a 55-gallon setup, I think?   Bill --- On Sun, 12/20/09, Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@...> wrote: From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@...> Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Canister Filters? To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Date: Sunday, December 20, 2009, 6:10 PM Which model are you looking at?  That would help.  Also a link to the video... although I think you'll see that the Rena is much larger based on the info that I found. According to a site that had dimensions on the Marineland's and sold both systems... http://www.petmountain.com/product/canister-filters/512050/marineland-perfec to-c-series-multistage-canister-filter.html Dimensions: C-160 - 8" x 8" x 12.5" C-220 - 8" x 8" x 14.5" C-360 - 8" x 8" x 16.5" - $169.95 (rated for 360GPH) (equals 1,056 cu in) http://www.petmountain.com/product/canister-filters/512050/marineland-perfec to-c-series-multistage-canister-filter.html has the Rena XP-3 for $184.95 (rated for 350GPH) but no dimensions listed. BUT.. this Amazon page has the XP-3 for $162.97 and has the dimensions listed. http://www.amazon.com/Canister-Filstar-Freshwater-Saltwater-Aquariums/dp/B00 0260FX4 (actually a Petco listing) Dimensions: XP-3 - 14 x 9 x 18 inches (equals 2,268 cu in) SO... A comparably sized Rena Filstar, the XP-3 (2,268 CI) is MUCH BIGGER.. over twice the size of the Marineland C-360 (1,056 CI)...  and as far as ruggedness.. the Rena Filstar's are very heavy duty IMO.  Find a store that sells both and go look at them side by side. What size tank were you putting this on?  These are both rated for around a 100G tank although they could be used on a smaller tank.  I know the Rena has a throttle valve if needed.  Are you getting a NEW big tank for Christmas? This eBay'er has the Rena Filstar XP-3 for $133.95 (Buy It Now price) which is the best price I found with a Google Shopping search. http://cgi.ebay.com/RENA-FILSTAR-XP-3-NEW_W0QQitemZ140364317061QQcmdZViewIte mQQptZLH_DefaultDomain_0?hash=item20ae5d8185 Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of bill 1433 Sent: Sunday, December 20, 2009 4:38 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Canister Filters? Thanks Len,   If you Goggle the Marineland and see the size of it on that video that alone might convince you.  It almost makes the Rena look like a toy and the cost is in line for both.  Filter media size wise, I would say is doubled.  Still talking about the same or output per gallon side by side.   Bill --- On Sun, 12/20/09, Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@...> wrote: From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@...> Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Canister Filters? To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Date: Sunday, December 20, 2009, 4:32 PM While Marineland certainly enjoyed a good reputation for a long time, they are no longer the company they use to be.  They got bought out by the same company that owns Tetra and Dr. Tim is no longer with Marineland and he was the Chief Science Officer for them while they enjoyed their good reputation and breakthrough products like Bio-Spira, Bio-Wheels, etc.  I don't know if I have the same confidence in them any longer since they have been taken over and split up their human IQ-base so much. All that said, if the new company hasn't messed with the design or manufacturing of the previous products, then they should still be good. At least, when Rena got bought out many years ago, they got bought out by a *better* company (API), not a lesser company (Tetra).  IMO, Tetra is on the low end of the totem pole for quality and then Marineland lost so much of the human talent when they bought Marineland that I'm not sure if that acquisition made Marineland a better company/product line or not.  I know that the Rena Filstar canister filters have been greatly improved since API took over Rena (which was formerly a French company but now is wholly owned by API, an American company). Have you compared the Marineland and Rena Filstars side by side?  I'm not sure if I've seen any canister filters that have as large of a reservoir as the Rena's... when comparing prices.  Now, one Marineland canister filter that I was interested in 5-6 years ago, but it's price was much higher than a comparable Rena Filstar, was the Marineland Magnum 350 Deluxe, which had a built in attachment for doing gravel vacuuming with the actual intake hose of the canister filter.  Then, after POWER vacuuming the gravel, one could do filter maintenance and do a PWC (using buckets, etc.) without needing a Python or other powered siphon system to do better gravel vacuuming.  I'm not sure why more canister filter companies haven't come up with their own modifications for this type of feature and since I have a Python, I never did work on a DIY modification although it wouldn't take much to make this modification... maybe I need a blog called "Pimp My Filter" with all the filter modifications I've made and continue to think about. ;-) Since you are interested in a price range, compare the biggest Rena Filstar in that price range with the biggest Marineland C in that price range and make your choice.  I haven't done any side-by-side store comparisons in a LONG time. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of bill 1433 Sent: Sunday, December 20, 2009 2:32 PM To: AquaticLife Subject: [AquaticLife] Canister Filters? Around early November, I request was submitted about the C series Marineland canister and possible leaks.  There was only a very small response.  My question is this.   When it comes to canister filters, what's the best bang for the buck.  I was very sold on the Rena XP2 but then doing a Goggle Search, I came across a video of the Marineland C series canister.  I was impressed to say the least.  Just the units' sheer size is awesome, let alone its filtering capabilities.   So what's the story folks?  What's the best canister filter staying in the $175 to $250 range?   Bill

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 45261	From: cobra427lady	Date: 12/20/2009
Subject: Re: Canister Filters?

Well, I love my Eheims - super quiet and very efficient work horses - I have the 2236 on my 40G and the 2026 Pro II on my 100G...both are doing a great job. Both of these are in the price range you referenced. No leaks, no noise, just very clear water and happy fishes. I may not be the super qualified aquarist but I know they are doing a good job when my fish are all thriving and my water tests are nearly perfect all the time. Cannot say that about any HOB filters I used in the past except for AquaClear. Thanks, Clare >   > So what's the story folks?  What's the best canister filter staying > in the $175 to $250 range? >   > Bill > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 45262	From: cobra427lady	Date: 12/20/2009
Subject: Re: Canister Filters?

I love my Eheims - I have the Pro II 2026 on my 100G and the Ecco 2236 on my 40G - both are super quiet and my fish are thriving and the water tests are perfect.....could never say that about any HOBs I have used in the past except for AqauClear. > So what's the story folks?  What's the best canister filter staying > in the $175 to $250 range? >   > Bill > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 45263	From: Lisa Lawless	Date: 12/20/2009
Subject: Wanting to upsize...

I was thinking of upgrading to a 30gal tropical. I'd be moving up from my 22gal.   And i would like to know if i can put Dwarf cichlids in, how many. And would they be compatible with a couple of bristlenose catfish?. 1 male albino. another normal colour - gender yet unknown.   I have an anubias on driftwood, one dwarf anubias on wood and 2 pieces of bare driftwood. And some java fern.   I would pick up some river stones and rocks for caves, and use a hob filter.   Or the alternative...is there any small species of Angelfish i could have?   Thanks Lisa   __________________________________________________________________________________ See what's on at the movies in your area. Find out now: http://au.movies.yahoo.com/session-times/ [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 45264	From: greychildren	Date: 12/20/2009
Subject: My first ciclid tank

Well guys i have wonder into the world of south American ciclids. I got a fire mouth and a pink convict..my problems the pink convict is making the life of the fire mouth a living hell...I'm going to return the pink convict and get another fire mouth what else do u guys recommend?

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 45265	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 12/21/2009
Subject: Re: Wanting to upsize...

Lisa, The only small angels are young angels, so that option is closed to you from the get go. As for adding dwarf cichlids one would need to know what you are going to be placing in the tank. Are you going to use the 30 gallon to replace the current 22 gallon moving your current population to the 30? Are we talking about US gallons or Imperial gallons here? \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Lisa Lawless Sent: Monday, December 21, 2009 12:42 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Wanting to upsize... I was thinking of upgrading to a 30gal tropical. I'd be moving up from my 22gal.   And i would like to know if i can put Dwarf cichlids in, how many. And would they be compatible with a couple of bristlenose catfish?. 1 male albino. another normal colour - gender yet unknown.   I have an anubias on driftwood, one dwarf anubias on wood and 2 pieces of bare driftwood. And some java fern.   I would pick up some river stones and rocks for caves, and use a hob filter.   Or the alternative...is there any small species of Angelfish i could have?   Thanks Lisa

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 45266	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 12/21/2009
Subject: Re: My first ciclid tank

What size tank? Most cichlids, even the ones that are called "peaceful" are still territorial so you usually need lots of tank space for them... and if you get a mated pair that spawns, then those become much worse. Firemouth Cichlid - "Cichlasoma" (Thorichthys) meeki - http://fish.mongabay.com/species/Cichlasoma_meeki.html Read the "Social Behavior" section in the profile. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of greychildren Sent: Monday, December 21, 2009 12:16 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] My first ciclid tank Well guys i have wonder into the world of south American ciclids. I got a fire mouth and a pink convict..my problems the pink convict is making the life of the fire mouth a living hell...I'm going to return the pink convict and get another fire mouth what else do u guys recommend?

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 45267	From: bill 1433	Date: 12/21/2009
Subject: Re: Canister Filters?

Thanks Clare,   I appreciate your response,   Bill --- On Sun, 12/20/09, cobra427lady <clare@...> wrote: From: cobra427lady <clare@...> Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Canister Filters? To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Date: Sunday, December 20, 2009, 11:42 PM Well, I love my Eheims - super quiet and very efficient work horses - I have the 2236 on my 40G and the 2026 Pro II on my 100G...both are doing a great job.  Both of these are in the price range you referenced.  No leaks, no noise, just very clear water and happy fishes.   I may not be the super qualified aquarist but I know they are doing a good job when my fish are all thriving and my water tests are nearly perfect all the time.  Cannot say that about any HOB filters I used in the past except for AquaClear..  Thanks, Clare >   > So what's the story folks?  What's the best canister filter staying > in the $175 to $250 range? >   > Bill > > >        > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > ------------------------------------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the home page.  Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com to receive the digest, which includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com for the No E-Mail option where you will still be able to read messages on the group and post replies. Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com to receive individual e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 45268	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 12/21/2009
Subject: Re: Canister Filters?

Are you going to cover the filter intake? If so get a higher powered rena as the covering will reduce water flow a bit. I use a rena xp 4 on my 55 gallon (I know maybe a little overkill), but it doesn't put out the water flow I would have thought it would (after covering the intake with mesh). Amber bill 1433 wrote: > > I guess you could say we would be looking at the Rena XP2 and the > Marineland 220 they would be both for a 55-gallon setup, I think? > > Bill > > --- On Sun, 12/20/09, Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@... > <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com>> wrote: > > From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@... > <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com>> > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Canister Filters? > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Date: Sunday, December 20, 2009, 6:10 PM > > Which model are you looking at? That would help. Also a link to the > video... although I think you'll see that the Rena is much larger based on > the info that I found. > > According to a site that had dimensions on the Marineland's and sold both > systems... > > http://www.petmountain.com/product/canister-filters/512050/marineland-perfec > <http://www.petmountain.com/product/canister-filters/512050/marineland-perfec> > to-c-series-multistage-canister-filter.html > Dimensions: > C-160 - 8" x 8" x 12.5" > C-220 - 8" x 8" x 14.5" > C-360 - 8" x 8" x 16.5" - $169.95 (rated for 360GPH) (equals 1,056 cu in) > > http://www.petmountain.com/product/canister-filters/512050/marineland-perfec > <http://www.petmountain.com/product/canister-filters/512050/marineland-perfec> > to-c-series-multistage-canister-filter.html > > has the Rena XP-3 for $184.95 (rated for 350GPH) but no dimensions listed. > > BUT.. this Amazon page has the XP-3 for $162.97 and has the dimensions > listed. > http://www.amazon.com/Canister-Filstar-Freshwater-Saltwater-Aquariums/dp/B00 > <http://www.amazon.com/Canister-Filstar-Freshwater-Saltwater-Aquariums/dp/B00> > 0260FX4 (actually a Petco listing) > Dimensions: > XP-3 - 14 x 9 x 18 inches (equals 2,268 cu in) > > SO... > > A comparably sized Rena Filstar, the XP-3 (2,268 CI) is MUCH BIGGER.. over > twice the size of the Marineland C-360 (1,056 CI)... and as far as > ruggedness.. the Rena Filstar's are very heavy duty IMO. Find a store that > sells both and go look at them side by side. > > What size tank were you putting this on? These are both rated for around a > 100G tank although they could be used on a smaller tank. I know the Rena > has a throttle valve if needed. Are you getting a NEW big tank for > Christmas? > > This eBay'er has the Rena Filstar XP-3 for $133.95 (Buy It Now price) > which > is the best price I found with a Google Shopping search. > > http://cgi.ebay.com/RENA-FILSTAR-XP-3-NEW_W0QQitemZ140364317061QQcmdZViewIte > <http://cgi.ebay.com/RENA-FILSTAR-XP-3-NEW_W0QQitemZ140364317061QQcmdZViewIte> > mQQptZLH_DefaultDomain_0?hash=item20ae5d8185 > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right > side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On > Behalf Of bill 1433 > Sent: Sunday, December 20, 2009 4:38 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Canister Filters? > > Thanks Len, > > If you Goggle the Marineland and see the size of it on that video that > alone > might convince you. It almost makes the Rena look like a toy and the cost > is in line for both. Filter media size wise, I would say is doubled. Still > talking about the same or output per gallon side by side. > > Bill > > --- On Sun, 12/20/09, Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@... > <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com>> wrote: > > From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@... > <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com>> > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Canister Filters? > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Date: Sunday, December 20, 2009, 4:32 PM > > While Marineland certainly enjoyed a good reputation for a long time, they > are no longer the company they use to be. They got bought out by the same > company that owns Tetra and Dr. Tim is no longer with Marineland and > he was > the Chief Science Officer for them while they enjoyed their good > reputation > and breakthrough products like Bio-Spira, Bio-Wheels, etc. I don't know if > I have the same confidence in them any longer since they have been taken > over and split up their human IQ-base so much. > > All that said, if the new company hasn't messed with the design or > manufacturing of the previous products, then they should still be good. > > At least, when Rena got bought out many years ago, they got bought out > by a > *better* company (API), not a lesser company (Tetra). IMO, Tetra is on the > low end of the totem pole for quality and then Marineland lost so much of > the human talent when they bought Marineland that I'm not sure if that > acquisition made Marineland a better company/product line or not. I know > that the Rena Filstar canister filters have been greatly improved > since API > took over Rena (which was formerly a French company but now is wholly > owned > by API, an American company). > > Have you compared the Marineland and Rena Filstars side by side? I'm not > sure if I've seen any canister filters that have as large of a > reservoir as > the Rena's... when comparing prices. > > Now, one Marineland canister filter that I was interested in 5-6 years > ago, > but it's price was much higher than a comparable Rena Filstar, was the > Marineland Magnum 350 Deluxe, which had a built in attachment for doing > gravel vacuuming with the actual intake hose of the canister filter. Then, > after POWER vacuuming the gravel, one could do filter maintenance and do a > PWC (using buckets, etc.) without needing a Python or other powered siphon > system to do better gravel vacuuming. I'm not sure why more canister > filter > companies haven't come up with their own modifications for this type of > feature and since I have a Python, I never did work on a DIY modification > although it wouldn't take much to make this modification... maybe I need a > blog called "Pimp My Filter" with all the filter modifications I've > made and > continue to think about. ;-) > > Since you are interested in a price range, compare the biggest Rena > Filstar > in that price range with the biggest Marineland C in that price range and > make your choice. I haven't done any side-by-side store comparisons in a > LONG time. > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> (Links to any articles referenced > in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under > Labels and > also under Archives by Year, Month) > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On > Behalf Of bill 1433 > Sent: Sunday, December 20, 2009 2:32 PM > To: AquaticLife > Subject: [AquaticLife] Canister Filters? > > Around early November, I request was submitted about the C series > Marineland > canister and possible leaks. There was only a very small response. My > question is this. > > When it comes to canister filters, what's the best bang for the buck. > I was > very sold on the Rena XP2 but then doing a Goggle Search, I came across a > video of the Marineland C series canister. I was impressed to say the > least. Just the units' sheer size is awesome, let alone its filtering > capabilities. > > So what's the story folks? What's the best canister filter staying in the > $175 to $250 range? > > Bill > > ------------------------------------ > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. > ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> > PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT > important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message > MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- > <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. > > If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of unsubscribing, > you can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My > Membership" on the home page. > > Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:aquaticlife-digest%40yahoogroups.com> to receive the digest, > which includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email > > Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:aquaticlife-nomail%40yahoogroups.com> for the No E-Mail option > where you will still be able to read messages on the group and post > replies. > > Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:aquaticlife-normal%40yahoogroups.com> to receive individual > e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 45269	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 12/21/2009
Subject: Re: Canister Filters?

I have one of each of the filters spoken about in this thread. I have a eheim pro 2 thermofilter (with a broken heater, LOL), I HATE the priming system for it, so outdated. But other than that it definitely is well made and powerful even with the intake screen covered. The parts to replace are outrageous on price though, so keep that in mind. I have a magnum 350 deluxe (which is the one Lenny spoke of that you can hook a vacuum hose onto and use instead of a python, while that is a neat feature I long since lost the hose and attachments and can no longer buy the cleaning kit unless perhaps on ebay), but it's a well powered canister filter, the only drawback is that it doesn't have all the filter stage mediums like the eheim and the rena xp's do. I also use an aquaclear HOB and it does a decent job, I just prefer canister filters over HOB's personally. My favorite for ease of cleaning is the rena xp's. I unhook the top (after shutting off the flow to the filter hoses of course), pour out the water in the canister and rinse out the filter mediums in removed tank water, then refill and hook everything back up and plug it in, the only time you have to "prime" the filter is the very first time you set it up, after that it self primes. ALSO, very big thing about my eheim, every time the power goes out it back filters onto my floor so the darn canister has to be kept in a bucket just to be on the safe side, got tired of coming home to a puddle on my floor when our local electric company had issues. *sigh*. Hope that helps, Amber bill 1433 wrote: > > Thanks Clare, > > I appreciate your response, > > Bill > > --- On Sun, 12/20/09, cobra427lady <clare@... > <mailto:clare%40clarescreaturecomforts.com>> wrote: > > From: cobra427lady <clare@... > <mailto:clare%40clarescreaturecomforts.com>> > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Canister Filters? > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Date: Sunday, December 20, 2009, 11:42 PM > > Well, I love my Eheims - super quiet and very efficient work horses - > I have the 2236 on my 40G and the 2026 Pro II on my 100G...both are > doing a great job. Both of these are in the price range you > referenced. No leaks, no noise, just very clear water and happy > fishes. I may not be the super qualified aquarist but I know they are > doing a good job when my fish are all thriving and my water tests are > nearly perfect all the time. Cannot say that about any HOB filters I > used in the past except for AquaClear.. > Thanks, > Clare > > > > > So what's the story folks? What's the best canister filter staying > > in the $175 to $250 range? > > > > Bill > > > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > ------------------------------------ > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. > ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> > PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT > important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message > MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- > <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. > > If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of unsubscribing, > you can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My > Membership" on the home page. > > Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:aquaticlife-digest%40yahoogroups.com> to receive the digest, > which includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email > > Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:aquaticlife-nomail%40yahoogroups.com> for the No E-Mail option > where you will still be able to read messages on the group and post > replies. > > Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:aquaticlife-normal%40yahoogroups.com> to receive individual > e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 45270	From: William M	Date: 12/21/2009
Subject: Re: My first ciclid tank

By the way, those are not South American cichlids but rather come from Central America.What size tank are you putting them in? I have a male fire mouth in my 55 that is the leader of the tank.He is probably the exception of the rule for fire mouths though. --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "greychildren" <greychildren@...> wrote: > > Well guys i have wonder into the world of south American ciclids. I got a fire mouth and a pink convict..my problems the pink convict is making the life of the fire mouth a living hell...I'm going to return the pink convict and get another fire mouth what else do u guys recommend? >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 45271	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 12/21/2009
Subject: Re: Canister Filters?

Amber, You might want to try open-cell sponge instead of the mesh if the mesh is slowing down the water intake that much. Or if you definitely need the small pore size of the mesh, then wrap the mesh around the open-cell sponge block. This would give you added "holes" since you would have more mesh and therefore would get more water able to flow into the intake. Without improving the intake, I think blocking the intake would put a lot more strain on the motor, possibly causing it to overheat or just run hotter which could cause premature breakdown in the future. You might be able to tell this from feeling the top of the motor housing on the XP-4 compared to your other XP's. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Amber Berglund Sent: Monday, December 21, 2009 9:03 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Canister Filters? Are you going to cover the filter intake? If so get a higher powered rena as the covering will reduce water flow a bit. I use a rena xp 4 on my 55 gallon (I know maybe a little overkill), but it doesn't put out the water flow I would have thought it would (after covering the intake with mesh). Amber bill 1433 wrote: > > I guess you could say we would be looking at the Rena XP2 and the > Marineland 220 they would be both for a 55-gallon setup, I think? > > Bill > > --- On Sun, 12/20/09, Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@... > <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com>> wrote: > > From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@... > <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com>> > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Canister Filters? > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Date: Sunday, December 20, 2009, 6:10 PM > > Which model are you looking at? That would help. Also a link to the > video... although I think you'll see that the Rena is much larger > based on the info that I found. > > According to a site that had dimensions on the Marineland's and sold > both systems... > > http://www.petmountain.com/product/canister-filters/512050/marineland- > perfec > <http://www.petmountain.com/product/canister-filters/512050/marineland > -perfec> to-c-series-multistage-canister-filter.html > Dimensions: > C-160 - 8" x 8" x 12.5" > C-220 - 8" x 8" x 14.5" > C-360 - 8" x 8" x 16.5" - $169.95 (rated for 360GPH) (equals 1,056 cu > in) > > http://www.petmountain.com/product/canister-filters/512050/marineland- > perfec > <http://www.petmountain.com/product/canister-filters/512050/marineland > -perfec> to-c-series-multistage-canister-filter.html > > has the Rena XP-3 for $184.95 (rated for 350GPH) but no dimensions listed. > > BUT.. this Amazon page has the XP-3 for $162.97 and has the dimensions > listed. > http://www.amazon.com/Canister-Filstar-Freshwater-Saltwater-Aquariums/ > dp/B00 > <http://www.amazon.com/Canister-Filstar-Freshwater-Saltwater-Aquariums > /dp/B00> > 0260FX4 (actually a Petco listing) > Dimensions: > XP-3 - 14 x 9 x 18 inches (equals 2,268 cu in) > > SO... > > A comparably sized Rena Filstar, the XP-3 (2,268 CI) is MUCH BIGGER.. > over twice the size of the Marineland C-360 (1,056 CI)... and as far > as ruggedness.. the Rena Filstar's are very heavy duty IMO. Find a > store that sells both and go look at them side by side. > > What size tank were you putting this on? These are both rated for > around a 100G tank although they could be used on a smaller tank. I > know the Rena has a throttle valve if needed. Are you getting a NEW > big tank for Christmas? > > This eBay'er has the Rena Filstar XP-3 for $133.95 (Buy It Now price) > which is the best price I found with a Google Shopping search. > > http://cgi.ebay.com/RENA-FILSTAR-XP-3-NEW_W0QQitemZ140364317061QQcmdZV > iewIte > <http://cgi.ebay.com/RENA-FILSTAR-XP-3-NEW_W0QQitemZ140364317061QQcmdZ > ViewIte> > mQQptZLH_DefaultDomain_0?hash=item20ae5d8185 > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> (Links to any articles referenced in > above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels > and also under Archives by Year, Month) > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On Behalf Of bill 1433 > Sent: Sunday, December 20, 2009 4:38 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Canister Filters? > > Thanks Len, > > If you Goggle the Marineland and see the size of it on that video that > alone might convince you. It almost makes the Rena look like a toy and > the cost is in line for both. Filter media size wise, I would say is > doubled. Still talking about the same or output per gallon side by > side. > > Bill > > --- On Sun, 12/20/09, Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@... > <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com>> wrote: > > From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@... > <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com>> > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Canister Filters? > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Date: Sunday, December 20, 2009, 4:32 PM > > While Marineland certainly enjoyed a good reputation for a long time, > they are no longer the company they use to be. They got bought out by > the same company that owns Tetra and Dr. Tim is no longer with > Marineland and he was the Chief Science Officer for them while they > enjoyed their good reputation and breakthrough products like > Bio-Spira, Bio-Wheels, etc. I don't know if I have the same confidence > in them any longer since they have been taken over and split up their > human IQ-base so much. > > All that said, if the new company hasn't messed with the design or > manufacturing of the previous products, then they should still be good. > > At least, when Rena got bought out many years ago, they got bought out > by a > *better* company (API), not a lesser company (Tetra). IMO, Tetra is on > the low end of the totem pole for quality and then Marineland lost so > much of the human talent when they bought Marineland that I'm not sure > if that acquisition made Marineland a better company/product line or > not. I know that the Rena Filstar canister filters have been greatly > improved since API took over Rena (which was formerly a French company > but now is wholly owned by API, an American company). > > Have you compared the Marineland and Rena Filstars side by side? I'm > not sure if I've seen any canister filters that have as large of a > reservoir as the Rena's... when comparing prices. > > Now, one Marineland canister filter that I was interested in 5-6 years > ago, but it's price was much higher than a comparable Rena Filstar, > was the Marineland Magnum 350 Deluxe, which had a built in attachment > for doing gravel vacuuming with the actual intake hose of the canister > filter. Then, after POWER vacuuming the gravel, one could do filter > maintenance and do a PWC (using buckets, etc.) without needing a > Python or other powered siphon system to do better gravel vacuuming. > I'm not sure why more canister filter companies haven't come up with > their own modifications for this type of feature and since I have a > Python, I never did work on a DIY modification although it wouldn't > take much to make this modification... maybe I need a blog called > "Pimp My Filter" with all the filter modifications I've made and > continue to think about. ;-) > > Since you are interested in a price range, compare the biggest Rena > Filstar in that price range with the biggest Marineland C in that > price range and make your choice. I haven't done any side-by-side > store comparisons in a LONG time. > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> (Links to any articles referenced in > above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels > and also under Archives by Year, Month) > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On Behalf Of bill 1433 > Sent: Sunday, December 20, 2009 2:32 PM > To: AquaticLife > Subject: [AquaticLife] Canister Filters? > > Around early November, I request was submitted about the C series > Marineland canister and possible leaks. There was only a very small > response. My question is this. > > When it comes to canister filters, what's the best bang for the buck. > I was > very sold on the Rena XP2 but then doing a Goggle Search, I came > across a video of the Marineland C series canister. I was impressed to > say the least. Just the units' sheer size is awesome, let alone its > filtering capabilities. > > So what's the story folks? What's the best canister filter staying in > the > $175 to $250 range? > > Bill

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 45272	From: bill 1433	Date: 12/21/2009
Subject: Re: Canister Filters?

Yes Amber!   That's a big help!  My biggest headache is space itself.  And No, Len, no bigger tank from Santa!   How this all started was my cruising Craigslist for 55's.  I quickly realized that I might be able to "jam one" in our very small home by using a canister filter which would allow for a bit closer spacing to the rear wall.  As we all know, using any type of HOB almost guarantees the need to move the tank out from a rear wall 5 to 6 inches to allow for filter removal and maintenance, the canisters give a bit of grace for this.  And of course the obvious, any canister will run rings around a HOB for better filtration.   When I saw the video that I posted for the Marineland 220 or 360 the size of these units is enough to persuade anybody.  More over the filter tray capacity is very generous.  I saw the two of them side by side at That Fish Place in Lancaster a few months back and the Marineland made the Rena appear almost like a toy.  But as Lenny points out Rena does make a good and reliable filter.   As I mentioned before, in the first week of November, a posting was made about these "C" series filters developing leaks but it was also mentioned that the company quickly replaced bad parts in a timely manner.  Boy that's something!  Can you imagine a Customer Service Department that actually helps customers?  What a novel idea!  Anyway there have been no bad reports on our group about them unless out of 2,500 members, only 3 use these filters?  Hmmmmm, I never thought of that!   Bill --- On Mon, 12/21/09, Amber Berglund <arberglund@...> wrote: From: Amber Berglund <arberglund@...> Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: Canister Filters? To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Date: Monday, December 21, 2009, 10:12 AM I have one of each of the filters spoken about in this thread. I have a eheim pro 2 thermofilter (with a broken heater, LOL), I HATE the priming system for it, so outdated. But other than that it definitely is well made and powerful even with the intake screen covered. The parts to replace are outrageous on price though, so keep that in mind. I have a magnum 350 deluxe (which is the one Lenny spoke of that you can hook a vacuum hose onto and use instead of a python, while that is a neat feature I long since lost the hose and attachments and can no longer buy the cleaning kit unless perhaps on ebay), but it's a well powered canister filter, the only drawback is that it doesn't have all the filter stage mediums like the eheim and the rena xp's do. I also use an aquaclear HOB and it does a decent job, I just prefer canister filters over HOB's personally. My favorite for ease of cleaning is the rena xp's. I unhook the top (after shutting off the flow to the filter hoses of course), pour out the water in the canister and rinse out the filter mediums in removed tank water, then refill and hook everything back up and plug it in, the only time you have to "prime" the filter is the very first time you set it up, after that it self primes. ALSO, very big thing about my eheim, every time the power goes out it back filters onto my floor so the darn canister has to be kept in a bucket just to be on the safe side, got tired of coming home to a puddle on my floor when our local electric company had issues. *sigh*. Hope that helps, Amber bill 1433 wrote: > > Thanks Clare, > > I appreciate your response, > > Bill > > --- On Sun, 12/20/09, cobra427lady <clare@... > <mailto:clare%40clarescreaturecomforts.com>> wrote: > > From: cobra427lady <clare@... > <mailto:clare%40clarescreaturecomforts.com>> > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Canister Filters? > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Date: Sunday, December 20, 2009, 11:42 PM > > Well, I love my Eheims - super quiet and very efficient work horses - > I have the 2236 on my 40G and the 2026 Pro II on my 100G...both are > doing a great job. Both of these are in the price range you > referenced. No leaks, no noise, just very clear water and happy > fishes. I may not be the super qualified aquarist but I know they are > doing a good job when my fish are all thriving and my water tests are > nearly perfect all the time. Cannot say that about any HOB filters I > used in the past except for AquaClear.. > Thanks, > Clare > > > > > So what's the story folks? What's the best canister filter staying > > in the $175 to $250 range? > > > > Bill > > > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > ------------------------------------ > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You.. > ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> > PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT > important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message > MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- > <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. > > If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of unsubscribing, > you can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My > Membership" on the home page. > > Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:aquaticlife-digest%40yahoogroups.com> to receive the digest, > which includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email > > Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:aquaticlife-nomail%40yahoogroups.com> for the No E-Mail option > where you will still be able to read messages on the group and post > replies. > > Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:aquaticlife-normal%40yahoogroups.com> to receive individual > e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > ------------------------------------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the home page.  Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com to receive the digest, which includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com for the No E-Mail option where you will still be able to read messages on the group and post replies. Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com to receive individual e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 45273	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 12/21/2009
Subject: Re: Canister Filters?

All of my Xp's are xp4's, and all the filter intakes are covered in the mesh, when I used the foam intake cover that came with a powerhead filter it cut the water flow down even more than the mesh does. Perhaps it's because I have the intake on one end and the outtake on the other? Would that cause a big decrease in water flow? Amber Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > > Amber, > > You might want to try open-cell sponge instead of the mesh if the mesh is > slowing down the water intake that much. Or if you definitely need the > small pore size of the mesh, then wrap the mesh around the open-cell > sponge > block. This would give you added "holes" since you would have more > mesh and > therefore would get more water able to flow into the intake. > > Without improving the intake, I think blocking the intake would put a lot > more strain on the motor, possibly causing it to overheat or just run > hotter > which could cause premature breakdown in the future. You might be able to > tell this from feeling the top of the motor housing on the XP-4 > compared to > your other XP's. > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right > side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) > > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On > Behalf Of Amber Berglund > Sent: Monday, December 21, 2009 9:03 AM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Canister Filters? > > Are you going to cover the filter intake? If so get a higher powered > rena as > the covering will reduce water flow a bit. I use a rena xp 4 on my 55 > gallon > (I know maybe a little overkill), but it doesn't put out the water flow I > would have thought it would (after covering the intake with mesh). > > Amber > > bill 1433 wrote: > > > > I guess you could say we would be looking at the Rena XP2 and the > > Marineland 220 they would be both for a 55-gallon setup, I think? > > > > Bill > > > > --- On Sun, 12/20/09, Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@... > <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com> > > <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com>> wrote: > > > > From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@... > <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com> > > <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com>> > > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Canister Filters? > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > Date: Sunday, December 20, 2009, 6:10 PM > > > > Which model are you looking at? That would help. Also a link to the > > video... although I think you'll see that the Rena is much larger > > based on the info that I found. > > > > According to a site that had dimensions on the Marineland's and sold > > both systems... > > > > > http://www.petmountain.com/product/canister-filters/512050/marineland- > <http://www.petmountain.com/product/canister-filters/512050/marineland-> > > perfec > > > <http://www.petmountain.com/product/canister-filters/512050/marineland > <http://www.petmountain.com/product/canister-filters/512050/marineland> > > -perfec> to-c-series-multistage-canister-filter.html > > Dimensions: > > C-160 - 8" x 8" x 12.5" > > C-220 - 8" x 8" x 14.5" > > C-360 - 8" x 8" x 16.5" - $169.95 (rated for 360GPH) (equals 1,056 cu > > in) > > > > > http://www.petmountain.com/product/canister-filters/512050/marineland- > <http://www.petmountain.com/product/canister-filters/512050/marineland-> > > perfec > > > <http://www.petmountain.com/product/canister-filters/512050/marineland > <http://www.petmountain.com/product/canister-filters/512050/marineland> > > -perfec> to-c-series-multistage-canister-filter.html > > > > has the Rena XP-3 for $184.95 (rated for 350GPH) but no dimensions > listed. > > > > BUT.. this Amazon page has the XP-3 for $162.97 and has the dimensions > > listed. > > > http://www.amazon.com/Canister-Filstar-Freshwater-Saltwater-Aquariums/ > <http://www.amazon.com/Canister-Filstar-Freshwater-Saltwater-Aquariums/> > > dp/B00 > > > <http://www.amazon.com/Canister-Filstar-Freshwater-Saltwater-Aquariums > <http://www.amazon.com/Canister-Filstar-Freshwater-Saltwater-Aquariums> > > /dp/B00> > > 0260FX4 (actually a Petco listing) > > Dimensions: > > XP-3 - 14 x 9 x 18 inches (equals 2,268 cu in) > > > > SO... > > > > A comparably sized Rena Filstar, the XP-3 (2,268 CI) is MUCH BIGGER.. > > over twice the size of the Marineland C-360 (1,056 CI)... and as far > > as ruggedness.. the Rena Filstar's are very heavy duty IMO. Find a > > store that sells both and go look at them side by side. > > > > What size tank were you putting this on? These are both rated for > > around a 100G tank although they could be used on a smaller tank. I > > know the Rena has a throttle valve if needed. Are you getting a NEW > > big tank for Christmas? > > > > This eBay'er has the Rena Filstar XP-3 for $133.95 (Buy It Now price) > > which is the best price I found with a Google Shopping search. > > > > > http://cgi.ebay.com/RENA-FILSTAR-XP-3-NEW_W0QQitemZ140364317061QQcmdZV > <http://cgi.ebay.com/RENA-FILSTAR-XP-3-NEW_W0QQitemZ140364317061QQcmdZV> > > iewIte > > > <http://cgi.ebay.com/RENA-FILSTAR-XP-3-NEW_W0QQitemZ140364317061QQcmdZ > <http://cgi.ebay.com/RENA-FILSTAR-XP-3-NEW_W0QQitemZ140364317061QQcmdZ> > > ViewIte> > > mQQptZLH_DefaultDomain_0?hash=item20ae5d8185 > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>> > (Links to any articles referenced in > > above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels > > and also under Archives by Year, Month) > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On Behalf Of bill 1433 > > Sent: Sunday, December 20, 2009 4:38 PM > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Canister Filters? > > > > Thanks Len, > > > > If you Goggle the Marineland and see the size of it on that video that > > alone might convince you. It almost makes the Rena look like a toy and > > the cost is in line for both. Filter media size wise, I would say is > > doubled. Still talking about the same or output per gallon side by > > side. > > > > Bill > > > > --- On Sun, 12/20/09, Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@... > <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com> > > <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com>> wrote: > > > > From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@... > <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com> > > <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com>> > > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Canister Filters? > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > Date: Sunday, December 20, 2009, 4:32 PM > > > > While Marineland certainly enjoyed a good reputation for a long time, > > they are no longer the company they use to be. They got bought out by > > the same company that owns Tetra and Dr. Tim is no longer with > > Marineland and he was the Chief Science Officer for them while they > > enjoyed their good reputation and breakthrough products like > > Bio-Spira, Bio-Wheels, etc. I don't know if I have the same confidence > > in them any longer since they have been taken over and split up their > > human IQ-base so much. > > > > All that said, if the new company hasn't messed with the design or > > manufacturing of the previous products, then they should still be good. > > > > At least, when Rena got bought out many years ago, they got bought out > > by a > > *better* company (API), not a lesser company (Tetra). IMO, Tetra is on > > the low end of the totem pole for quality and then Marineland lost so > > much of the human talent when they bought Marineland that I'm not sure > > if that acquisition made Marineland a better company/product line or > > not. I know that the Rena Filstar canister filters have been greatly > > improved since API took over Rena (which was formerly a French company > > but now is wholly owned by API, an American company). > > > > Have you compared the Marineland and Rena Filstars side by side? I'm > > not sure if I've seen any canister filters that have as large of a > > reservoir as the Rena's... when comparing prices. > > > > Now, one Marineland canister filter that I was interested in 5-6 years > > ago, but it's price was much higher than a comparable Rena Filstar, > > was the Marineland Magnum 350 Deluxe, which had a built in attachment > > for doing gravel vacuuming with the actual intake hose of the canister > > filter. Then, after POWER vacuuming the gravel, one could do filter > > maintenance and do a PWC (using buckets, etc.) without needing a > > Python or other powered siphon system to do better gravel vacuuming. > > I'm not sure why more canister filter companies haven't come up with > > their own modifications for this type of feature and since I have a > > Python, I never did work on a DIY modification although it wouldn't > > take much to make this modification... maybe I need a blog called > > "Pimp My Filter" with all the filter modifications I've made and > > continue to think about. ;-) > > > > Since you are interested in a price range, compare the biggest Rena > > Filstar in that price range with the biggest Marineland C in that > > price range and make your choice. I haven't done any side-by-side > > store comparisons in a LONG time. > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>> > (Links to any articles referenced in > > above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels > > and also under Archives by Year, Month) > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On Behalf Of bill 1433 > > Sent: Sunday, December 20, 2009 2:32 PM > > To: AquaticLife > > Subject: [AquaticLife] Canister Filters? > > > > Around early November, I request was submitted about the C series > > Marineland canister and possible leaks. There was only a very small > > response. My question is this. > > > > When it comes to canister filters, what's the best bang for the buck. > > I was > > very sold on the Rena XP2 but then doing a Goggle Search, I came > > across a video of the Marineland C series canister. I was impressed to > > say the least. Just the units' sheer size is awesome, let alone its > > filtering capabilities. > > > > So what's the story folks? What's the best canister filter staying in > > the > > $175 to $250 range? > > > > Bill > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 45274	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 12/21/2009
Subject: Re: Canister Filters?

As for cost effectiveness I'd say the Rena's are very good, I'm still using all my original foam's and such, the only part that didn't make it through several cleanings is the green/blue pad at the very top of the filter (last thing it goes through or first, I'm not sure), it fell apart after about a month of squeezing it out, I cut a new piece out of some foam I got from the LFS and it seems to be working just fine. I didn't bother with the carbon pads (and they fall apart after they get old, the bag doesn't hold up to repeated rinsing very well). I put in an extra foam piece instead of the carbon pad, and I added more bio-ball's as the ones that come with the setup don't seem like enough to me (tiny little bag of them for such a big filter). I know the Rena's are very popular on this list, not sure about the C series filters by marineland, never hear much about them on the list. Amber bill 1433 wrote: > > Yes Amber! > > That's a big help! My biggest headache is space itself. And No, Len, > no bigger > tank from Santa! > > How this all started was my cruising Craigslist for 55's. I quickly > realized that > I might be able to "jam one" in our very small home by using a > canister filter which > would allow for a bit closer spacing to the rear wall. As we all know, > using any type of HOB almost guarantees the need to move the tank out > from a rear wall 5 to 6 inches to allow for filter removal and > maintenance, the canisters give a bit of grace for this. And of course > the obvious, any canister will run rings around a HOB for better > filtration. > > When I saw the video that I posted for the Marineland 220 or 360 the > size of these units is enough to persuade anybody. More over the > filter tray capacity is very generous. I saw the two of them side by > side at That Fish Place in Lancaster a few months back and the > Marineland made the Rena appear almost like a toy. But as Lenny points > out Rena does make a good and reliable filter. > > As I mentioned before, in the first week of November, a posting was > made about these "C" series filters developing leaks but it was also > mentioned that the company quickly replaced bad parts in a timely > manner. Boy that's something! Can you imagine a Customer Service > Department that actually helps customers? What a novel idea! Anyway > there have been no bad reports on our group about them unless out of > 2,500 members, only 3 use these filters? Hmmmmm, I never thought of that! > > Bill > > --- On Mon, 12/21/09, Amber Berglund <arberglund@... > <mailto:arberglund%40gmail.com>> wrote: > > From: Amber Berglund <arberglund@... > <mailto:arberglund%40gmail.com>> > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: Canister Filters? > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Date: Monday, December 21, 2009, 10:12 AM > > I have one of each of the filters spoken about in this thread. I have a > eheim pro 2 thermofilter (with a broken heater, LOL), I HATE the priming > system for it, so outdated. But other than that it definitely is well > made and powerful even with the intake screen covered. The parts to > replace are outrageous on price though, so keep that in mind. > I have a magnum 350 deluxe (which is the one Lenny spoke of that you can > hook a vacuum hose onto and use instead of a python, while that is a > neat feature I long since lost the hose and attachments and can no > longer buy the cleaning kit unless perhaps on ebay), but it's a well > powered canister filter, the only drawback is that it doesn't have all > the filter stage mediums like the eheim and the rena xp's do. > I also use an aquaclear HOB and it does a decent job, I just prefer > canister filters over HOB's personally. > My favorite for ease of cleaning is the rena xp's. I unhook the top > (after shutting off the flow to the filter hoses of course), pour out > the water in the canister and rinse out the filter mediums in removed > tank water, then refill and hook everything back up and plug it in, the > only time you have to "prime" the filter is the very first time you set > it up, after that it self primes. > ALSO, very big thing about my eheim, every time the power goes out it > back filters onto my floor so the darn canister has to be kept in a > bucket just to be on the safe side, got tired of coming home to a puddle > on my floor when our local electric company had issues. *sigh*. > Hope that helps, > Amber > > bill 1433 wrote: > > > > Thanks Clare, > > > > I appreciate your response, > > > > Bill > > > > --- On Sun, 12/20/09, cobra427lady <clare@... > <mailto:clare%40clarescreaturecomforts.com> > > <mailto:clare%40clarescreaturecomforts.com>> wrote: > > > > From: cobra427lady <clare@... > <mailto:clare%40clarescreaturecomforts.com> > > <mailto:clare%40clarescreaturecomforts.com>> > > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Canister Filters? > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > Date: Sunday, December 20, 2009, 11:42 PM > > > > Well, I love my Eheims - super quiet and very efficient work horses - > > I have the 2236 on my 40G and the 2026 Pro II on my 100G...both are > > doing a great job. Both of these are in the price range you > > referenced. No leaks, no noise, just very clear water and happy > > fishes. I may not be the super qualified aquarist but I know they are > > doing a good job when my fish are all thriving and my water tests are > > nearly perfect all the time. Cannot say that about any HOB filters I > > used in the past except for AquaClear.. > > Thanks, > > Clare > > > > > > > > So what's the story folks? What's the best canister filter staying > > > in the $175 to $250 range? > > > > > > Bill > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > > > > ------------------------------------ > > > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, > Thank You.. > > ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> > > PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT > > important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message > > MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- > > <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. > > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. > > > > If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of unsubscribing, > > you can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My > > Membership" on the home page. > > > > Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:aquaticlife-digest%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:aquaticlife-digest%40yahoogroups.com> to receive the digest, > > which includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email > > > > Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:aquaticlife-nomail%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:aquaticlife-nomail%40yahoogroups.com> for the No E-Mail option > > where you will still be able to read messages on the group and post > > replies. > > > > Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:aquaticlife-normal%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:aquaticlife-normal%40yahoogroups.com> to receive individual > > e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > > > ------------------------------------ > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. > ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> > PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT > important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message > MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- > <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. > > If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of unsubscribing, > you can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My > Membership" on the home page. > > Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:aquaticlife-digest%40yahoogroups.com> to receive the digest, > which includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email > > Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:aquaticlife-nomail%40yahoogroups.com> for the No E-Mail option > where you will still be able to read messages on the group and post > replies. > > Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:aquaticlife-normal%40yahoogroups.com> to receive individual > e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 45275	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 12/21/2009
Subject: Re: Wanting to upsize...

Which dwarf cichlids are you interested in or might be available? They range in size from 1" to 4.5". http://fish.mongabay.com/apistogramma.htm http://www.thekrib.com/Apisto/ http://www.cichlid-forum.com/articles/dwarf_cichlid.php Try to remember to state that your gallons are Australian gallons, not U.S. gallons since your gallons are bigger than ours... or use liters and let the reader do the math. ;-) An Australian gallon (Imperial gallon) is equal to 1.201 U.S. gallons. (4.546 liters in an Imperial Gallon versus 3.785 liters in a U.S. Gallon... we just had to be different. ;-)) So... your proposed 30G (Imperial/Australian) would be equal to 36 U.S. Gallons. Giving us actual measurements of the tank in either inches or millimeters would allow for verification of the volume and better info for stocking purposes since territory issues can be an issue. You can check your volume yourself here... http://www.fishpondinfo.com/calc.htm (Java based calculator) OR http://animal-world.com/encyclo/information/calculate.htm I think someone else already mentioned there is no such thing as small angelfish. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Lisa Lawless Sent: Sunday, December 20, 2009 11:42 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Wanting to upsize... I was thinking of upgrading to a 30gal tropical. I'd be moving up from my 22gal.   And i would like to know if i can put Dwarf cichlids in, how many. And would they be compatible with a couple of bristlenose catfish?. 1 male albino. another normal colour - gender yet unknown.   I have an anubias on driftwood, one dwarf anubias on wood and 2 pieces of bare driftwood. And some java fern.   I would pick up some river stones and rocks for caves, and use a hob filter.   Or the alternative...is there any small species of Angelfish i could have?   Thanks Lisa

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 45276	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 12/21/2009
Subject: Re: Canister Filters?

Something impeding the intake or the water flowing through the system. The only time my XP's slow down is right before I do my weekly cleaning... because all the goldfish poop, plant pieces, detritus, etc., are starting to clog up the filter media. If stuff gets wrapped around the impeller, that can also slow down the water flow. Do you check your impellers each time you do filter maintenance? On my Cherry Shrimp tank, where I have a fine mesh media bag over the intake strainer of the AquaClear HOB on that tank, when the media bag starts to get clogged up, it dramatically slows down the water. When I remove the intake tube and rinse that media bag off, then the AC flows like a champ again. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Amber Berglund Sent: Monday, December 21, 2009 12:56 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Canister Filters? All of my Xp's are xp4's, and all the filter intakes are covered in the mesh, when I used the foam intake cover that came with a powerhead filter it cut the water flow down even more than the mesh does. Perhaps it's because I have the intake on one end and the outtake on the other? Would that cause a big decrease in water flow? Amber Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > > Amber, > > You might want to try open-cell sponge instead of the mesh if the mesh > is slowing down the water intake that much. Or if you definitely need > the small pore size of the mesh, then wrap the mesh around the > open-cell sponge block. This would give you added "holes" since you > would have more mesh and therefore would get more water able to flow > into the intake. > > Without improving the intake, I think blocking the intake would put a > lot more strain on the motor, possibly causing it to overheat or just > run hotter which could cause premature breakdown in the future. You > might be able to tell this from feeling the top of the motor housing > on the XP-4 compared to your other XP's. > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> (Links to any articles referenced in > above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels > and also under Archives by Year, Month) > > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On Behalf Of Amber Berglund > Sent: Monday, December 21, 2009 9:03 AM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Canister Filters? > > Are you going to cover the filter intake? If so get a higher powered > rena as the covering will reduce water flow a bit. I use a rena xp 4 > on my 55 gallon (I know maybe a little overkill), but it doesn't put > out the water flow I would have thought it would (after covering the > intake with mesh). > > Amber > > bill 1433 wrote: > > > > I guess you could say we would be looking at the Rena XP2 and the > > Marineland 220 they would be both for a 55-gallon setup, I think? > > > > Bill > > > > --- On Sun, 12/20/09, Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@... > <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com> > > <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com>> wrote: > > > > From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@... > <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com> > > <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com>> > > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Canister Filters? > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > Date: Sunday, December 20, 2009, 6:10 PM > > > > Which model are you looking at? That would help. Also a link to the > > video... although I think you'll see that the Rena is much larger > > based on the info that I found. > > > > According to a site that had dimensions on the Marineland's and sold > > both systems... > > > > > http://www.petmountain.com/product/canister-filters/512050/marineland- > <http://www.petmountain.com/product/canister-filters/512050/marineland > -> > > perfec > > > <http://www.petmountain.com/product/canister-filters/512050/marineland > <http://www.petmountain.com/product/canister-filters/512050/marineland > > > > -perfec> to-c-series-multistage-canister-filter.html > > Dimensions: > > C-160 - 8" x 8" x 12.5" > > C-220 - 8" x 8" x 14.5" > > C-360 - 8" x 8" x 16.5" - $169.95 (rated for 360GPH) (equals 1,056 > > cu > > in) > > > > > http://www.petmountain.com/product/canister-filters/512050/marineland- > <http://www.petmountain.com/product/canister-filters/512050/marineland > -> > > perfec > > > <http://www.petmountain.com/product/canister-filters/512050/marineland > <http://www.petmountain.com/product/canister-filters/512050/marineland > > > > -perfec> to-c-series-multistage-canister-filter.html > > > > has the Rena XP-3 for $184.95 (rated for 350GPH) but no dimensions > listed. > > > > BUT.. this Amazon page has the XP-3 for $162.97 and has the > > dimensions listed. > > > http://www.amazon.com/Canister-Filstar-Freshwater-Saltwater-Aquariums/ > <http://www.amazon.com/Canister-Filstar-Freshwater-Saltwater-Aquariums > /> > > dp/B00 > > > <http://www.amazon.com/Canister-Filstar-Freshwater-Saltwater-Aquariums > <http://www.amazon.com/Canister-Filstar-Freshwater-Saltwater-Aquariums > > > > /dp/B00> > > 0260FX4 (actually a Petco listing) > > Dimensions: > > XP-3 - 14 x 9 x 18 inches (equals 2,268 cu in) > > > > SO... > > > > A comparably sized Rena Filstar, the XP-3 (2,268 CI) is MUCH BIGGER.. > > over twice the size of the Marineland C-360 (1,056 CI)... and as far > > as ruggedness.. the Rena Filstar's are very heavy duty IMO. Find a > > store that sells both and go look at them side by side. > > > > What size tank were you putting this on? These are both rated for > > around a 100G tank although they could be used on a smaller tank. I > > know the Rena has a throttle valve if needed. Are you getting a NEW > > big tank for Christmas? > > > > This eBay'er has the Rena Filstar XP-3 for $133.95 (Buy It Now > > price) which is the best price I found with a Google Shopping search. > > > > > http://cgi.ebay.com/RENA-FILSTAR-XP-3-NEW_W0QQitemZ140364317061QQcmdZV > <http://cgi.ebay.com/RENA-FILSTAR-XP-3-NEW_W0QQitemZ140364317061QQcmdZ > V> > > iewIte > > > <http://cgi.ebay.com/RENA-FILSTAR-XP-3-NEW_W0QQitemZ140364317061QQcmdZ > <http://cgi.ebay.com/RENA-FILSTAR-XP-3-NEW_W0QQitemZ140364317061QQcmdZ > > > > ViewIte> > > mQQptZLH_DefaultDomain_0?hash=item20ae5d8185 > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>> > (Links to any articles referenced in > > above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under > > Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On Behalf Of bill 1433 > > Sent: Sunday, December 20, 2009 4:38 PM > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Canister Filters? > > > > Thanks Len, > > > > If you Goggle the Marineland and see the size of it on that video > > that alone might convince you. It almost makes the Rena look like a > > toy and the cost is in line for both. Filter media size wise, I > > would say is doubled. Still talking about the same or output per > > gallon side by side. > > > > Bill > > > > --- On Sun, 12/20/09, Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@... > <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com> > > <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com>> wrote: > > > > From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@... > <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com> > > <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com>> > > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Canister Filters? > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > Date: Sunday, December 20, 2009, 4:32 PM > > > > While Marineland certainly enjoyed a good reputation for a long > > time, they are no longer the company they use to be. They got bought > > out by the same company that owns Tetra and Dr. Tim is no longer > > with Marineland and he was the Chief Science Officer for them while > > they enjoyed their good reputation and breakthrough products like > > Bio-Spira, Bio-Wheels, etc. I don't know if I have the same > > confidence in them any longer since they have been taken over and > > split up their human IQ-base so much. > > > > All that said, if the new company hasn't messed with the design or > > manufacturing of the previous products, then they should still be good. > > > > At least, when Rena got bought out many years ago, they got bought > > out by a > > *better* company (API), not a lesser company (Tetra). IMO, Tetra is > > on the low end of the totem pole for quality and then Marineland > > lost so much of the human talent when they bought Marineland that > > I'm not sure if that acquisition made Marineland a better > > company/product line or not. I know that the Rena Filstar canister > > filters have been greatly improved since API took over Rena (which > > was formerly a French company but now is wholly owned by API, an American company). > > > > Have you compared the Marineland and Rena Filstars side by side? I'm > > not sure if I've seen any canister filters that have as large of a > > reservoir as the Rena's... when comparing prices. > > > > Now, one Marineland canister filter that I was interested in 5-6 > > years ago, but it's price was much higher than a comparable Rena > > Filstar, was the Marineland Magnum 350 Deluxe, which had a built in > > attachment for doing gravel vacuuming with the actual intake hose of > > the canister filter. Then, after POWER vacuuming the gravel, one > > could do filter maintenance and do a PWC (using buckets, etc.) > > without needing a Python or other powered siphon system to do better gravel vacuuming. > > I'm not sure why more canister filter companies haven't come up with > > their own modifications for this type of feature and since I have a > > Python, I never did work on a DIY modification although it wouldn't > > take much to make this modification... maybe I need a blog called > > "Pimp My Filter" with all the filter modifications I've made and > > continue to think about. ;-) > > > > Since you are interested in a price range, compare the biggest Rena > > Filstar in that price range with the biggest Marineland C in that > > price range and make your choice. I haven't done any side-by-side > > store comparisons in a LONG time. > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>> > (Links to any articles referenced in > > above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under > > Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On Behalf Of bill 1433 > > Sent: Sunday, December 20, 2009 2:32 PM > > To: AquaticLife > > Subject: [AquaticLife] Canister Filters? > > > > Around early November, I request was submitted about the C series > > Marineland canister and possible leaks. There was only a very small > > response. My question is this. > > > > When it comes to canister filters, what's the best bang for the buck. > > I was > > very sold on the Rena XP2 but then doing a Goggle Search, I came > > across a video of the Marineland C series canister. I was impressed > > to say the least. Just the units' sheer size is awesome, let alone > > its filtering capabilities. > > > > So what's the story folks? What's the best canister filter staying > > in the > > $175 to $250 range? > > > > Bill

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 45277	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 12/21/2009
Subject: Re: Canister Filters?

The media on the top is the last stage of filtration in Rena Filstars. The incoming water goes down along the outside of the baskets, to the bottom of the filter reservoir and then comes up through the bottom of the bottom basket, then flows up through all the other media in the other baskets and finally through the very top filter media, which should be a fine mesh polishing type filter pad, and then the water goes back up to the tank. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Amber Berglund Sent: Monday, December 21, 2009 1:01 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: Canister Filters? As for cost effectiveness I'd say the Rena's are very good, I'm still using all my original foam's and such, the only part that didn't make it through several cleanings is the green/blue pad at the very top of the filter (last thing it goes through or first, I'm not sure), it fell apart after about a month of squeezing it out, I cut a new piece out of some foam I got from the LFS and it seems to be working just fine. I didn't bother with the carbon pads (and they fall apart after they get old, the bag doesn't hold up to repeated rinsing very well). I put in an extra foam piece instead of the carbon pad, and I added more bio-ball's as the ones that come with the setup don't seem like enough to me (tiny little bag of them for such a big filter). I know the Rena's are very popular on this list, not sure about the C series filters by marineland, never hear much about them on the list. Amber bill 1433 wrote: > > Yes Amber! > > That's a big help! My biggest headache is space itself. And No, Len, > no bigger tank from Santa! > > How this all started was my cruising Craigslist for 55's. I quickly > realized that I might be able to "jam one" in our very small home by > using a canister filter which would allow for a bit closer spacing to > the rear wall. As we all know, using any type of HOB almost guarantees > the need to move the tank out from a rear wall 5 to 6 inches to allow > for filter removal and maintenance, the canisters give a bit of grace > for this. And of course the obvious, any canister will run rings > around a HOB for better filtration. > > When I saw the video that I posted for the Marineland 220 or 360 the > size of these units is enough to persuade anybody. More over the > filter tray capacity is very generous. I saw the two of them side by > side at That Fish Place in Lancaster a few months back and the > Marineland made the Rena appear almost like a toy. But as Lenny points > out Rena does make a good and reliable filter. > > As I mentioned before, in the first week of November, a posting was > made about these "C" series filters developing leaks but it was also > mentioned that the company quickly replaced bad parts in a timely > manner. Boy that's something! Can you imagine a Customer Service > Department that actually helps customers? What a novel idea! Anyway > there have been no bad reports on our group about them unless out of > 2,500 members, only 3 use these filters? Hmmmmm, I never thought of that! > > Bill > > --- On Mon, 12/21/09, Amber Berglund <arberglund@... > <mailto:arberglund%40gmail.com>> wrote: > > From: Amber Berglund <arberglund@... > <mailto:arberglund%40gmail.com>> > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: Canister Filters? > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Date: Monday, December 21, 2009, 10:12 AM > > I have one of each of the filters spoken about in this thread. I have > a eheim pro 2 thermofilter (with a broken heater, LOL), I HATE the > priming system for it, so outdated. But other than that it definitely > is well made and powerful even with the intake screen covered. The > parts to replace are outrageous on price though, so keep that in mind. > I have a magnum 350 deluxe (which is the one Lenny spoke of that you > can hook a vacuum hose onto and use instead of a python, while that is > a neat feature I long since lost the hose and attachments and can no > longer buy the cleaning kit unless perhaps on ebay), but it's a well > powered canister filter, the only drawback is that it doesn't have all > the filter stage mediums like the eheim and the rena xp's do. > I also use an aquaclear HOB and it does a decent job, I just prefer > canister filters over HOB's personally. > My favorite for ease of cleaning is the rena xp's. I unhook the top > (after shutting off the flow to the filter hoses of course), pour out > the water in the canister and rinse out the filter mediums in removed > tank water, then refill and hook everything back up and plug it in, > the only time you have to "prime" the filter is the very first time > you set it up, after that it self primes. > ALSO, very big thing about my eheim, every time the power goes out it > back filters onto my floor so the darn canister has to be kept in a > bucket just to be on the safe side, got tired of coming home to a > puddle on my floor when our local electric company had issues. *sigh*. > Hope that helps, > Amber > > bill 1433 wrote: > > > > Thanks Clare, > > > > I appreciate your response, > > > > Bill > > > > --- On Sun, 12/20/09, cobra427lady <clare@... > <mailto:clare%40clarescreaturecomforts.com> > > <mailto:clare%40clarescreaturecomforts.com>> wrote: > > > > From: cobra427lady <clare@... > <mailto:clare%40clarescreaturecomforts.com> > > <mailto:clare%40clarescreaturecomforts.com>> > > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Canister Filters? > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > Date: Sunday, December 20, 2009, 11:42 PM > > > > Well, I love my Eheims - super quiet and very efficient work horses > > - I have the 2236 on my 40G and the 2026 Pro II on my 100G...both > > are doing a great job. Both of these are in the price range you > > referenced. No leaks, no noise, just very clear water and happy > > fishes. I may not be the super qualified aquarist but I know they > > are doing a good job when my fish are all thriving and my water > > tests are nearly perfect all the time. Cannot say that about any HOB > > filters I used in the past except for AquaClear.. > > Thanks, > > Clare > > > > > > > > So what's the story folks? What's the best canister filter staying > > > in the $175 to $250 range? > > > > > > Bill > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > > > > ------------------------------------ > > > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, > Thank You.. > > ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , > > .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT > > that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the > > original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was > > re: old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. > > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. > > > > If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of > > unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by clicking on > > "Edit My Membership" on the home page. > > > > Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:aquaticlife-digest%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:aquaticlife-digest%40yahoogroups.com> to receive the digest, > > which includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email > > > > Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:aquaticlife-nomail%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:aquaticlife-nomail%40yahoogroups.com> for the No E-Mail > > option where you will still be able to read messages on the group > > and post replies. > > > > Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:aquaticlife-normal%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:aquaticlife-normal%40yahoogroups.com> to receive individual > > e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > > > ------------------------------------ > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. > ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , > .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT > that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the > original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: > old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. > > If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of unsubscribing, > you can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My > Membership" on the home page. > > Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:aquaticlife-digest%40yahoogroups.com> to receive the digest, > which includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email > > Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:aquaticlife-nomail%40yahoogroups.com> for the No E-Mail option > where you will still be able to read messages on the group and post > replies. > > Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:aquaticlife-normal%40yahoogroups.com> to receive individual > e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > ------------------------------------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the home page. Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com to receive the digest, which includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com for the No E-Mail option where you will still be able to read messages on the group and post replies. Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com to receive individual e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 45278	From: false	Date: 12/21/2009
Subject: Re: My first ciclid tank

40g and in my case the pink convict is the aggressive one --- On Mon, 12/21/09, William M <dreammaker2623@...> wrote: From: William M <dreammaker2623@...> Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: My first ciclid tank To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Date: Monday, December 21, 2009, 10:27 AM   By the way, those are not South American cichlids but rather come from Central America.What size tank are you putting them in? I have a male fire mouth in my 55 that is the leader of the tank.He is probably the exception of the rule for fire mouths though. --- In AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com, "greychildren" <greychildren@ ...> wrote: > > Well guys i have wonder into the world of south American ciclids. I got a fire mouth and a pink convict..my problems the pink convict is making the life of the fire mouth a living hell...I'm going to return the pink convict and get another fire mouth what else do u guys recommend? > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 45279	From: Springer,James C.	Date: 12/22/2009
Subject: Re: Canister Filters?

> From: bill 1433 > As I mentioned before, in the first week of November, a posting > was made about these "C" series filters developing leaks but it was > also mentioned that the company quickly replaced bad parts in a timely > manner. Boy that's something! Can you imagine a Customer Service Department > that actually helps customers? What a novel idea! Anyway there have been no > bad reports on our group about them unless out of 2,500 members, only 3 use > these filters? Hmmmmm, I never thought of that! Bill, I was one of the "repliers" on that thread, below I've copied and pasted from that past email (I still had it around). I'm not going to argue for or against your usage of Marineland's filter. I can just relay my experience and that customer support was very good. Judging from my ongoing experience with the new valve block and motor head, it seems to me they have solved whatever issues they had. It seems to sit more snuggly and no leaks since beginning of Oct when I replaced it (with what they sent, they didn't even have me return my original. And quickly, all they asked from me was the "lot number" of the unit I had.) I can't honestly compare to the other filters since I've never used them and can't say anything about their customer service. I know, it is a sad statement that we are all extremely excited when we get good service but it does sure seem the exception rather than the rule these days. As far as usage, it is very easy to disconnect the valve block and reconnect when doing maintenance (I do mine weekly). Personally I do have to lean the unit when I disconnect based on where I have it set up, but no big deal. I've been experimenting with different media, I do use Purigen that Lenny often sites and I have been also keeping some Phos-Zorb (Seachem) in there as I'm trying to reduce my phosphate level. But certainly plenty of places to experiment with media in there. Some of the original thread appears below. Good luck in whatever you choose! Jim PS. My only tip on the C-360 would be to add some silicone lube on the motorhead gasket and the valve block in/out seals. I did this on the new one and not sure if that or the corrected (presumably) design is making it easier than before to connect/disconnect. But I figure it is good for the gaskets (o-rings) regardless... ------------------- Thread from a few emails below ------------------- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com; on behalf of; Poul Wehner [poul.wehner@...] I've had a C-360 for over a year. The first time I changed the charcoal I noticed one of the rubber/vinyl gaskets had decayed and the unit no longer could maintain flow. I contacted Marineland and they sent out a replacement ring kit within 3 days. It was one of the most responsive customer support situations I've ever encountered. A+++ would buy again :-) On Mon, Nov 2, 2009 at 1:56 PM, Springer,James C. <james.springer@...>wrote: > > > > From: Courtland > > > > does anyone own these filters? how are they? heard a lot of bad > > things about leaks and would like to know if those are issues with the > actual > > filter or people just messing them up? and any other info you can > provide > > about them to help me make my decision > > I've owned a C360 since Jun 2008. I started noticing a leak at beginning > of Sep 2009. I figured I might just need a new set of gaskets. I > contacted Marineland about either lubing the gaskets and/or replacing > them. > > First, they indicated a little silicone lube would be a good thing. > Disappointing was finding there was not replacement gasket (o-ring) for > the main motor-head. However, they indicated to me they thought it might > be the valve-block was not seating properly anymore (they explained why > that would cause the leak I was seeing from the latch). They asked me > for the lot number and they would send me a replacement valve block. As > it turns out they ended up sending me the entire motor-head (the > operational part of the canister) and the valve-block as a replacement! > > They never asked for proof of purchase and they were always very > responsive with our email discourse (I received replies back either same > or next day from them.) > > So my bottom-line, even though it was disappointing to see a leak > develop within this timeframe, their customer support was top notch and > they took care of my problem. I would highly recommend based on this > alone. And if it hadn't been for the leak, I would state I've had no > problems otherwise, it has worked great before and after that. > > My knowledge gained; I did add silicone lube first thing around all the > o-rings on this new assembly. I can't tell you if Marineland had > specific production run problems or not with my lot (I didn't ask). Just > to find great customer service, though it should be the rule, seems to > be the exception unfortunately and that to me is worth its weight in > gold. > > Jim > > PS. I changed out the motorhead and valve block 3 or 4 weeks ago and all > is good. > ------------------- End old thread ------------------- NOTICE: This e-mail message, including any attachments and appended messages, is for the sole use of the intended recipients and may contain confidential and legally privileged information. If you are not the intended recipient, any review, dissemination, distribution, copying, storage or other use of all or any portion of this message is strictly prohibited. If you received this message in error, please immediately notify the sender by reply e-mail and delete this message in its entirety.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 45280	From: bill 1433	Date: 12/22/2009
Subject: Re: Canister Filters?

Jim,   Thanks so much for your reply and taking the extra time.  It's a shame others can't do the same.  I can't believe that with a membership of over 2,500, only 3 people are using this filter.  Hard to believe isn't it?   Not sure of which one I'll chose but right now the Marineland still has or seems to have greater filter basket capacity than the Rena.  In any event I promise to keep you posted on which one wins!  I'm fighting a real space problem in our small home and a canister is the best way to go.  Thanks again.   Have a safe and Happy Holiday Season,   Bill --- On Tue, 12/22/09, Springer,James C. <james.springer@...> wrote: From: Springer,James C. <james.springer@...> Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: Canister Filters? To: "AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com" <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com> Date: Tuesday, December 22, 2009, 12:54 PM >       From: bill 1433 >       As I mentioned before, in the first week of November, a posting > was made about these "C" series filters developing leaks but it was > also mentioned that the company quickly replaced bad parts in a timely > manner.  Boy that's something!  Can you imagine a Customer Service Department > that actually helps customers?  What a novel idea!  Anyway there have been no > bad reports on our group about them unless out of 2,500 members, only 3 use > these filters?  Hmmmmm, I never thought of that! Bill, I was one of the "repliers" on that thread, below I've copied and pasted from that past email (I still had it around). I'm not going to argue for or against your usage of Marineland's filter. I can just relay my experience and that customer support was very good. Judging from my ongoing experience with the new valve block and motor head, it seems to me they have solved whatever issues they had. It seems to sit more snuggly and no leaks since beginning of Oct when I replaced it (with what they sent, they didn't even have me return my original. And quickly, all they asked from me was the "lot number" of the unit I had.) I can't honestly compare to the other filters since I've never used them and can't say anything about their customer service.. I know, it is a sad statement that we are all extremely excited when we get good service but it does sure seem the exception rather than the rule these days. As far as usage, it is very easy to disconnect the valve block and reconnect when doing maintenance (I do mine weekly). Personally I do have to lean the unit when I disconnect based on where I have it set up, but no big deal. I've been experimenting with different media, I do use Purigen that Lenny often sites and I have been also keeping some Phos-Zorb (Seachem) in there as I'm trying to reduce my phosphate level. But certainly plenty of places to experiment with media in there. Some of the original thread appears below. Good luck in whatever you choose! Jim PS. My only tip on the C-360 would be to add some silicone lube on the motorhead gasket and the valve block in/out seals. I did this on the new one and not sure if that or the corrected (presumably) design is making it easier than before to connect/disconnect. But I figure it is good for the gaskets (o-rings) regardless... ------------------- Thread from a few emails below ------------------- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com; on behalf of; Poul Wehner [poul.wehner@...] I've had a C-360 for over a year. The first time I changed the charcoal I noticed one of the rubber/vinyl gaskets had decayed and the unit no longer could maintain flow. I contacted Marineland and they sent out a replacement ring kit within 3 days. It was one of the most responsive customer support situations I've ever encountered. A+++ would buy again :-) On Mon, Nov 2, 2009 at 1:56 PM, Springer,James C. <james.springer@...>wrote: > > > > From: Courtland > > > > does anyone own these filters? how are they? heard a lot of bad > > things about leaks and would like to know if those are issues with the > actual > > filter or people just messing them up? and any other info you can > provide > > about them to help me make my decision > > I've owned a C360 since Jun 2008. I started noticing a leak at beginning > of Sep 2009. I figured I might just need a new set of gaskets. I > contacted Marineland about either lubing the gaskets and/or replacing > them. > > First, they indicated a little silicone lube would be a good thing. > Disappointing was finding there was not replacement gasket (o-ring) for > the main motor-head. However, they indicated to me they thought it might > be the valve-block was not seating properly anymore (they explained why > that would cause the leak I was seeing from the latch). They asked me > for the lot number and they would send me a replacement valve block. As > it turns out they ended up sending me the entire motor-head (the > operational part of the canister) and the valve-block as a replacement! > > They never asked for proof of purchase and they were always very > responsive with our email discourse (I received replies back either same > or next day from them.) > > So my bottom-line, even though it was disappointing to see a leak > develop within this timeframe, their customer support was top notch and > they took care of my problem. I would highly recommend based on this > alone. And if it hadn't been for the leak, I would state I've had no > problems otherwise, it has worked great before and after that. > > My knowledge gained; I did add silicone lube first thing around all the > o-rings on this new assembly. I can't tell you if Marineland had > specific production run problems or not with my lot (I didn't ask). Just > to find great customer service, though it should be the rule, seems to > be the exception unfortunately and that to me is worth its weight in > gold. > > Jim > > PS. I changed out the motorhead and valve block 3 or 4 weeks ago and all > is good. > ------------------- End old thread ------------------- NOTICE:  This e-mail message, including any attachments and appended messages, is for the sole use of the intended recipients and may contain confidential and legally privileged information. If you are not the intended recipient, any review, dissemination, distribution, copying, storage or other use of all or any portion of this message is strictly prohibited. If you received this message in error, please immediately notify the sender by reply e-mail and delete this message in its entirety. ------------------------------------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the home page.  Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com to receive the digest, which includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com for the No E-Mail option where you will still be able to read messages on the group and post replies. Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com to receive individual e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 45281	From: Debra Melton	Date: 12/22/2009
Subject: Re: Canister Filters?

Hi Jim: I've got six tanks set up with 5 Fluvals of varying sizes, plus a couple of spares. I've got so much invested with these and spare parts I don't see any point in trying another brand. Just my 2 cents. Deb Biloxi, MS On Tue, Dec 22, 2009 at 4:45 PM, bill 1433 <warrenprint@...> wrote: > > > Jim, > > Thanks so much for your reply and taking the extra time. It's a shame > others can't do the same. I can't believe that with a membership of over > 2,500, only 3 people are using this filter. Hard to believe isn't it? > > Not sure of which one I'll chose but right now the Marineland still has or > seems to have greater filter basket capacity than the Rena. In any event > I promise to keep you posted on which one wins! I'm fighting a real space > problem in our small home and a canister is the best way to go. Thanks > again. > > Have a safe and Happy Holiday Season, > > Bill > > [image: Yahoo! Groups]<http://groups.yahoo.com/;_ylc=X3oDMTJkYmNvc2FxBF9TAzk3MzU5NzE0BGdycElkAzg0OTUxNTcEZ3Jwc3BJZAMxNzA1MDQyNzUyBHNlYwNmdHIEc2xrA2dmcARzdGltZQMxMjYxNTIxOTM4> > Switch to: Text-Only<AquaticLife-traditional@yahoogroups.com?subject=Change+Delivery+Format:+Traditional>, > Daily Digest<AquaticLife-digest@yahoogroups.com?subject=Email+Delivery:+Digest>� > Unsubscribe <AquaticLife-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com?subject=Unsubscribe>� Terms > of Use <http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/> > . > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 45282	From: Sam Palermo	Date: 12/22/2009
Subject: Re: Canister Filters?

Hello Deb, It isn't that a lot of people don't care but that the season is upon us that they may be busy with other things. I have a lot of Fluval canisters too but now only 2 tanks. I keep them going one way or another as I do not want to spend big money for things that are just frills like digital readouts and that- these sales people must be nuts with some of the prices I see. If you have any particular failures that I have missed, let me know and I will tell you the solution I have come up with. I think that other than cracking the canister- and I have one of those too- I epoxied it. There are many ways to extend the life of the filters. I think they should be usable for 15 to 20 years- I am a cheap skate. I have purchased some from of E bay. The one filter that is still working had a pump section fail and I took out the guts, hooked up a Mag 350 and use the canister for the filter section but it doesn't do the pumping. Fluval did a crap job of making the impeller covers of older filters like the 303 or 304- they did not beat me I found a way to use the broken covers until The pump fails and then the above solution. Let me know if I can be of further help. Best regards, Sam Palermo, Chief Engineer Skywave Broadcast Engineering, Chicago (708)334-2260 *Past Teac/Tascam Lead Service Technician still doing repairs.* Debra Melton wrote: > Hi Jim: > > I've got six tanks set up with 5 Fluvals of varying sizes, plus a couple of > spares. I've got so much invested with these and spare parts I don't see > any point in trying another brand. Just my 2 cents. > > Deb > Biloxi, MS > > On Tue, Dec 22, 2009 at 4:45 PM, bill 1433 <warrenprint@...> wrote: > > >> Jim, >> >> Thanks so much for your reply and taking the extra time. It's a shame >> others can't do the same. I can't believe that with a membership of over >> 2,500, only 3 people are using this filter. Hard to believe isn't it? >> >> Not sure of which one I'll chose but right now the Marineland still has or >> seems to have greater filter basket capacity than the Rena. In any event >> I promise to keep you posted on which one wins! I'm fighting a real space >> problem in our small home and a canister is the best way to go. Thanks >> again. >> >> Have a safe and Happy Holiday Season, >> >> Bill >> >> [image: Yahoo! Groups]<http://groups.yahoo.com/;_ylc=X3oDMTJkYmNvc2FxBF9TAzk3MzU5NzE0BGdycElkAzg0OTUxNTcEZ3Jwc3BJZAMxNzA1MDQyNzUyBHNlYwNmdHIEc2xrA2dmcARzdGltZQMxMjYxNTIxOTM4> >> Switch to: Text-Only<AquaticLife-traditional@yahoogroups.com?subject=Change+Delivery+Format:+Traditional>, >> Daily Digest<AquaticLife-digest@yahoogroups.com?subject=Email+Delivery:+Digest>. >> Unsubscribe <AquaticLife-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com?subject=Unsubscribe>. Terms >> of Use <http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/> >> . >> >> >> >> > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > ------------------------------------ > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. > ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> > PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- > <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. > > If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the home page. > > Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com to receive the digest, which includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email > > Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com for the No E-Mail option where you will still be able to read messages on the group and post replies. > > Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com to receive individual e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 45283	From: bill 1433	Date: 12/22/2009
Subject: Re: Canister Filters?

Thanks for the response Deb!   Since you have so much invested you did not really tell me------------\   What do you think of thtem?  Are they doing a good job and most important, how are they to work on and maintain?   Bill-----Ooops sorry I forgot the mention, I'm the one Jim was responding to and made the latest thread on this post. --- On Tue, 12/22/09, Debra Melton <dmelton2@...> wrote: From: Debra Melton <dmelton2@...> Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: Canister Filters? To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Date: Tuesday, December 22, 2009, 7:21 PM Hi Jim: I've got six tanks set up with 5 Fluvals of varying sizes, plus a couple of spares.  I've got so much invested with these and spare parts I don't see any point in trying another brand.  Just my 2 cents. Deb Biloxi, MS On Tue, Dec 22, 2009 at 4:45 PM, bill 1433 <warrenprint@...> wrote: > > > Jim, > > Thanks so much for your reply and taking the extra time.  It's a shame > others can't do the same.  I can't believe that with a membership of over > 2,500, only 3 people are using this filter.  Hard to believe isn't it? > > Not sure of which one I'll chose but right now the Marineland still has or > seems to have greater filter basket capacity than the Rena.  In any event > I promise to keep you posted on which one wins!  I'm fighting a real space > problem in our small home and a canister is the best way to go.  Thanks > again. > > Have a safe and Happy Holiday Season, > > Bill > >   [image: Yahoo! Groups]<http://groups.yahoo.com/;_ylc=X3oDMTJkYmNvc2FxBF9TAzk3MzU5NzE0BGdycElkAzg0OTUxNTcEZ3Jwc3BJZAMxNzA1MDQyNzUyBHNlYwNmdHIEc2xrA2dmcARzdGltZQMxMjYxNTIxOTM4> > Switch to: Text-Only<AquaticLife-traditional@yahoogroups.com?subject=Change+Delivery+Format:+Traditional>, > Daily Digest<AquaticLife-digest@yahoogroups.com?subject=Email+Delivery:+Digest>• > Unsubscribe <AquaticLife-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com?subject=Unsubscribe>• Terms > of Use <http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/> >    . > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] ------------------------------------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the home page.  Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com to receive the digest, which includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com for the No E-Mail option where you will still be able to read messages on the group and post replies. Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com to receive individual e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 45284	From: Avin Deen	Date: 12/23/2009
Subject: Re: Canister Filters?

I have a Dolphin C1300. I just got it for my new tank of 100 gallons last week. It seems to be doing fine but I have yet to clean it. regards Avin Angus Starling-British missionary (Brian McArdie) : l've lived in Africa for a year, and l don't know what you know. How long have you been here? Col. John Patterson (Val Kilmer) : Just about 24 hours. But l've been longing for this all my life. in The Ghost and the Darkness. Indian Parakeets [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 45285	From: Dora Smith	Date: 12/23/2009
Subject: Help. Nathaniel the Fish has a mane!

Nathaniel really suffered at the hands of his fish sitters last week when I had appendicitis. My sister is a very cheerful fish killer. She doesn't get it yet that you don't feed a betta by dropping in an entire ocean nutrition flake - which she thought was what I meant by a finger-nail sized piece. Honest to God, she's a high level project manager at IBM; I've no clue how she does get through life. Handy to have around if you have appendicitis and no money, though. For several days he's acted like a not entirely feeling well fish. Particularly being sway backed. Only wants one or two pieces of food at a time. I thought, maybe he's cold. For 36 hours I've noticed what looked like a hole in the back of his head - thought I was likely imagining it. Since last night, he has a beautiful fuzzy light tan mane on the back of his head and neck. I changed his water the day before yesterday. And of course I changed it when I came home from the hospital to find the water gone foul and the top covered with ocean nutrition fish flake. I put in some maracin I and maracin II. I don't really know if it's bacteria fuzz or fungus fuzz, and if the latter there is probably underlying bacterial infection. Anything else I should do, and how should I manage fresh doses of antibiotic? Am I giving him the right one? By the way, my fish in my tank never needed that praziquel; whatever killed four of them at once was transient. They even survived five days of my sister. If I did have to spring clean the algae bloom from the tank. Now, if I'd had my housemates tend the pets, the fish would be well, but the birds would be dead. Yours, Dora Smith Austin, TX tiggernut24@... [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 45286	From: tiggernut24	Date: 12/23/2009
Subject: Help - Nathaniel teh fish has a mane

Nathaniel really suffered at the hands of his fish sitters last week when I had appendicitis. My sister is a very cheerful fish killer. She doesn't get it yet that you don't feed a betta by dropping in an entire ocean nutrition flake - which she thought was what I meant by a finger-nail sized piece. Honest to God, she's a high level project manager at IBM; I've no clue how she does get through life. Handy to have around if you have appendicitis and no money, though. For several days he's acted like a not entirely feeling well fish. Particularly being sway backed. Only wants one or two pieces of food at a time. I thought, maybe he's cold. For 36 hours I've noticed what looked like a hole in the back of his head - thought I was likely imagining it. Since last night, he has a beautiful fuzzy light tan mane on the back of his head and neck. I changed his water the day before yesterday. And of course I changed it when I came home from the hospital to find the water gone foul and the top covered with ocean nutrition fish flake. I put in some maracin I and maracin II. I don't really know if it's bacteria fuzz or fungus fuzz, and if the latter there is probably underlying bacterial infection. Anything else I should do, and how should I manage fresh doses of antibiotic? Am I giving him the right one? By the way, my fish in my tank never needed that praziquel; whatever killed four of them at once was transient. They even survived five days of my sister. If I did have to spring clean the algae bloom from the tank. Now, if I'd had my housemates tend the pets, the fish would be well, but the birds would be dead. Yours, Dora Smith

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 45287	From: Springer,James C.	Date: 12/23/2009
Subject: Re: Canister Filters?

> From: bill 1433 > Thanks for the response Deb! > Since you have so much invested you did not really tell me------------\ > What do you think of thtem? Are they doing a good job and > most important, how are they to work on and maintain? Bill/All, Yea, I think a lot of times people are gung ho on what they use which is fine. That was why I was trying to just stay neutral and let you decide. The C360 filter has functioned fine for me, except for the small leak incident and I can only relay that customer service was top-notch regarding that. For some, just the fact it had developed a leak will dissuade them from trying/considering it while others will see the customer service being great (at least in my experience) and will weigh that heavily. I'm going to conjecture that any/most medium to higher priced units will probably do a decent job. I just can't objectively measure. I've only had experience with the Marineland as Deb appears to have had only experience with Fluvals. She has had good luck with them which is great. I had somewhat lesser luck with the leak, but on the other hand the support was great and my problem was resolved quickly. It is easy to maintain (though I do advise not to carry it away from the tank only by the handle, put a hand under it as well.) Good luck Bill in whatever you choose, I'm sure you'll be fine :) Have a good holiday season all! Jim NOTICE: This e-mail message, including any attachments and appended messages, is for the sole use of the intended recipients and may contain confidential and legally privileged information. If you are not the intended recipient, any review, dissemination, distribution, copying, storage or other use of all or any portion of this message is strictly prohibited. If you received this message in error, please immediately notify the sender by reply e-mail and delete this message in its entirety.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 45288	From: Dora Smith	Date: 12/23/2009
Subject: Re: Help. Nathaniel the Fish has a mane!

Left out that Nathaniel is a betta. Yours, Dora Smith Austin, TX tiggernut24@... ----- Original Message ----- From: "Dora Smith" <tiggernut24@...> To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Wednesday, December 23, 2009 7:51 AM Subject: [AquaticLife] Help. Nathaniel the Fish has a mane! Nathaniel really suffered at the hands of his fish sitters last week when I had appendicitis. My sister is a very cheerful fish killer. She doesn't get it yet that you don't feed a betta by dropping in an entire ocean nutrition flake - which she thought was what I meant by a finger-nail sized piece. Honest to God, she's a high level project manager at IBM; I've no clue how she does get through life. Handy to have around if you have appendicitis and no money, though. For several days he's acted like a not entirely feeling well fish. Particularly being sway backed. Only wants one or two pieces of food at a time. I thought, maybe he's cold. For 36 hours I've noticed what looked like a hole in the back of his head - thought I was likely imagining it. Since last night, he has a beautiful fuzzy light tan mane on the back of his head and neck. I changed his water the day before yesterday. And of course I changed it when I came home from the hospital to find the water gone foul and the top covered with ocean nutrition fish flake. I put in some maracin I and maracin II. I don't really know if it's bacteria fuzz or fungus fuzz, and if the latter there is probably underlying bacterial infection. Anything else I should do, and how should I manage fresh doses of antibiotic? Am I giving him the right one? By the way, my fish in my tank never needed that praziquel; whatever killed four of them at once was transient. They even survived five days of my sister. If I did have to spring clean the algae bloom from the tank. Now, if I'd had my housemates tend the pets, the fish would be well, but the birds would be dead. Yours, Dora Smith Austin, TX tiggernut24@... [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] ------------------------------------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the home page. Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com to receive the digest, which includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com for the No E-Mail option where you will still be able to read messages on the group and post replies. Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com to receive individual e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 45289	From: Debra Melton	Date: 12/23/2009
Subject: Re: Canister Filters?

Hi Bill: > The Fluvals are easy to set up, easy to take apart, easy to clean etc. and they appear to do a good job. Replacement parts are easy to come by and I've picked up gently used units on ebay at good prices. Only thing I don't really care for is the primer assembly. Sometimes it works like a charm, other times acts possessed. Not dissatisfied enough to even consider changing brands. Hope you find this helpful. Deb [image: Yahoo! Groups]<http://groups.yahoo.com/;_ylc=X3oDMTJkaGhwNG5iBF9TAzk3MzU5NzE0BGdycElkAzg0OTUxNTcEZ3Jwc3BJZAMxNzA1MDQyNzUyBHNlYwNmdHIEc2xrA2dmcARzdGltZQMxMjYxNTkwMjcz> > Switch to: Text-Only<AquaticLife-traditional@yahoogroups.com?subject=Change+Delivery+Format:+Traditional>, > Daily Digest<AquaticLife-digest@yahoogroups.com?subject=Email+Delivery:+Digest>� > Unsubscribe <AquaticLife-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com?subject=Unsubscribe>� Terms > of Use <http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/> > . > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 45290	From: Deenerz@aol.com	Date: 12/23/2009
Subject: Re: Canister Filters?

I primarily use air driven sponge filters on my 40+ tanks. My favorite HOB is the Aqua Clear followed by the Biowheel HOB/eclipse hoods etc. When I used canister filters (which I still own but don't use) I used Fluvals. Most of them the 04 series, 204, 304, 404. I purchased a used model and had one of the clips break off. I looked it up on the website but I could not find a way to order it. I called customer service and they sent me one FREE. Other than the clip problem I like the fluval. For the money I think they are a good filter. I was gifted a rena canister and an eheim professional but have not had opportunity to use them yet. -Mike -----Original Message----- From: Debra Melton <dmelton2@...> To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Wed, Dec 23, 2009 3:47 pm Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: Canister Filters? Hi Bill: > The Fluvals are easy to set up, easy to take apart, easy to clean etc. and they appear to do a good job. Replacement parts are easy to come by and I've picked up gently used units on ebay at good prices. Only thing I don't really care for is the primer assembly. Sometimes it works like a charm, other times acts possessed. Not dissatisfied enough to even consider changing brands. Hope you find this helpful. Deb [image: Yahoo! Groups]<http://groups.yahoo.com/;_ylc=X3oDMTJkaGhwNG5iBF9TAzk3MzU5NzE0BGd ycElkAzg0OTUxNTcEZ3Jwc3BJZAMxNzA1MDQyNzUyBHNlYwNmdHIEc2xrA2dmcARzdGltZQMx MjYxNTkwMjcz> > Switch to: Text-Only<AquaticLife-traditional@yahoogroups.com?subject=Change+Delivery +Format:+Traditional>, > Daily Digest<AquaticLife-digest@yahoogroups.com?subject=Email+Delivery:+Digest> • > Unsubscribe <AquaticLife-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com?subject=Unsubscribe>• Terms > of Use <http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/> > . > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] ------------------------------------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the home page. Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com to receive the digest, which includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com for the No E-Mail option where you will still be able to read messages on the group and post replies. Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com to receive individual e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 45291	From: bill 1433	Date: 12/23/2009
Subject: Re: Canister Filters?

Yes, I do Deb!  Thanks for the return.   Have a Safe and Happy Holiday,   Bill --- On Wed, 12/23/09, Debra Melton <dmelton2@...> wrote: From: Debra Melton <dmelton2@...> Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: Canister Filters? To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Date: Wednesday, December 23, 2009, 6:47 PM Hi Bill: > The Fluvals are easy to set up, easy to take apart, easy to clean etc. and they appear to do a good job. Replacement parts are easy to come by and I've picked up gently used units on ebay at good prices.  Only thing I don't really care for is the primer assembly.  Sometimes it works like a charm, other times acts possessed.  Not dissatisfied enough to even consider changing brands.  Hope you find this helpful. Deb [image: Yahoo! Groups]<http://groups.yahoo.com/;_ylc=X3oDMTJkaGhwNG5iBF9TAzk3MzU5NzE0BGdycElkAzg0OTUxNTcEZ3Jwc3BJZAMxNzA1MDQyNzUyBHNlYwNmdHIEc2xrA2dmcARzdGltZQMxMjYxNTkwMjcz> > Switch to: Text-Only<AquaticLife-traditional@yahoogroups.com?subject=Change+Delivery+Format:+Traditional>, > Daily Digest<AquaticLife-digest@yahoogroups.com?subject=Email+Delivery:+Digest>• > Unsubscribe <AquaticLife-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com?subject=Unsubscribe>• Terms > of Use <http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/> >    . > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] ------------------------------------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the home page.  Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com to receive the digest, which includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com for the No E-Mail option where you will still be able to read messages on the group and post replies. Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com to receive individual e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 45292	From: bill 1433	Date: 12/23/2009
Subject: Re: Canister Filters?

Thanks for the return Mike,   Have a Safe and Happy Holiday,   Bill --- On Wed, 12/23/09, Deenerz@... <Deenerz@...> wrote: From: Deenerz@... <Deenerz@...> Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: Canister Filters? To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Date: Wednesday, December 23, 2009, 7:17 PM I primarily use air driven sponge filters on my 40+ tanks. My favorite HOB is the Aqua Clear followed by the Biowheel HOB/eclipse hoods etc. When I used canister filters (which I still own but don't use) I used Fluvals. Most of them the 04 series, 204, 304, 404. I purchased a used model and had one of the clips break off. I looked it up on the website but I could not find a way to order it. I called customer service and they sent me one FREE. Other than the clip problem I like the fluval. For the money I think they are a good filter. I was gifted a rena canister and an eheim professional but have not had opportunity to use them yet. -Mike -----Original Message----- From: Debra Melton <dmelton2@...> To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Wed, Dec 23, 2009 3:47 pm Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: Canister Filters? Hi Bill: > The Fluvals are easy to set up, easy to take apart, easy to clean etc. and they appear to do a good job. Replacement parts are easy to come by and I've picked up gently used units on ebay at good prices.  Only thing I don't really care for is the primer assembly.  Sometimes it works like a charm, other times acts possessed.  Not dissatisfied enough to even consider changing brands.  Hope you find this helpful. Deb [image: Yahoo! Groups]<http://groups.yahoo.com/;_ylc=X3oDMTJkaGhwNG5iBF9TAzk3MzU5NzE0BGd ycElkAzg0OTUxNTcEZ3Jwc3BJZAMxNzA1MDQyNzUyBHNlYwNmdHIEc2xrA2dmcARzdGltZQMx MjYxNTkwMjcz> > Switch to: Text-Only<AquaticLife-traditional@yahoogroups.com?subject=Change+Delivery +Format:+Traditional>, > Daily Digest<AquaticLife-digest@yahoogroups.com?subject=Email+Delivery:+Digest> • > Unsubscribe <AquaticLife-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com?subject=Unsubscribe>• Terms > of Use <http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/> >    . > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] ------------------------------------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the home page. Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com to receive the digest, which includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com for the No E-Mail option where you will still be able to read messages on the group and post replies. Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com to receive individual e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links ------------------------------------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the home page.  Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com to receive the digest, which includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com for the No E-Mail option where you will still be able to read messages on the group and post replies. Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com to receive individual e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 45293	From: dmelton2@gmail.com	Date: 12/23/2009
Subject: Re: Canister Filters?

Merry Cristmas to you too! Sent from Debs iPhone On Dec 23, 2009, at 6:57 PM, bill 1433 <warrenprint@...> wrote: > Yes, I do Deb! Thanks for the return. >  > Have a Safe and Happy Holiday, >  > Bill > > --- On Wed, 12/23/09, Debra Melton <dmelton2@...> wrote: > > From: Debra Melton <dmelton2@...> > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: Canister Filters? > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Date: Wednesday, December 23, 2009, 6:47 PM > > Hi Bill: > > > > The Fluvals are easy to set up, easy to take apart, easy to clean > etc. and > they appear to do a good job. Replacement parts are easy to come by > and I've > picked up gently used units on ebay at good prices. Only thing I d > on't > really care for is the primer assembly. Sometimes it works like a > charm, > other times acts possessed. Not dissatisfied enough to even consid > er > changing brands. Hope you find this helpful. > > Deb > > [image: Yahoo! > Groups]<http:// > groups.yahoo.com/ > ;_ylc= > X3oDMTJkaGhwNG5iBF9TAzk3MzU5NzE0BGdycElkAzg0OTUxNTcEZ3Jwc3BJZAMxNzA1MDQyNzUyBHNlYwNmdHIEc2xrA2dmcARzdGltZQMxMjYxNTkwMjcz> > > Switch to: Text-Only<AquaticLife-traditional@yahoogroups.com? > subject=Change+Delivery+Format:+Traditional>, > > Daily Digest<AquaticLife-digest@yahoogroups.com?subject=Email > +Delivery:+Digest>• > > Unsubscribe <AquaticLife-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com? > subject=Unsubscribe>• Terms > > of Use <http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/> > >  . > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > ------------------------------------ > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, > Thank You. > ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.· > ´Â¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.· > ´Â¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> > PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT > important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original > message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old > subject)" <- > <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º > ((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º > ((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. > > If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of > unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by clicking on > "Edit My Membership" on the home page. > > Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com to receive the digest, > which includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email > > Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com for the No E-Mail option > where you will still be able to read messages on the group and post > replies. > > Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com to receive individual e- > mails.Yahoo! Groups Links > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 45294	From: Mike Whitfield	Date: 12/23/2009
Subject: Re: Canister Filters?

Like most people I've been quite busy and haven't checked my email in three weeks. But assuming you're still deciding . . . I have mostly hang-on filters, but I do run a Marineland canister on one 75 gallon tank. I've had it perhaps five or six years. It's easy to clean and has had no leaks or failures in that time. I'm going to buy another for a 55 and would recommend the Marineland. However I have no experience with other brands, so take that for what it's worth. Another Mike ----- Original Message ----- From: bill 1433 To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Tuesday, December 22, 2009 5:45 PM Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: Canister Filters? Jim, Thanks so much for your reply and taking the extra time. It's a shame others can't do the same. I can't believe that with a membership of over 2,500, only 3 people are using this filter. Hard to believe isn't it? Not sure of which one I'll chose but right now the Marineland still has or seems to have greater filter basket capacity than the Rena. In any event I promise to keep you posted on which one wins! I'm fighting a real space problem in our small home and a canister is the best way to go. Thanks again. Have a safe and Happy Holiday Season, Bill --- On Tue, 12/22/09, Springer,James C. <james.springer@...> wrote: From: Springer,James C. <james.springer@...> Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: Canister Filters? To: "AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com" <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com> Date: Tuesday, December 22, 2009, 12:54 PM > From: bill 1433 > As I mentioned before, in the first week of November, a posting > was made about these "C" series filters developing leaks but it was > also mentioned that the company quickly replaced bad parts in a timely > manner. Boy that's something! Can you imagine a Customer Service Department > that actually helps customers? What a novel idea! Anyway there have been no > bad reports on our group about them unless out of 2,500 members, only 3 use > these filters? Hmmmmm, I never thought of that! Bill, I was one of the "repliers" on that thread, below I've copied and pasted from that past email (I still had it around). I'm not going to argue for or against your usage of Marineland's filter. I can just relay my experience and that customer support was very good. Judging from my ongoing experience with the new valve block and motor head, it seems to me they have solved whatever issues they had. It seems to sit more snuggly and no leaks since beginning of Oct when I replaced it (with what they sent, they didn't even have me return my original. And quickly, all they asked from me was the "lot number" of the unit I had.) I can't honestly compare to the other filters since I've never used them and can't say anything about their customer service.. I know, it is a sad statement that we are all extremely excited when we get good service but it does sure seem the exception rather than the rule these days. As far as usage, it is very easy to disconnect the valve block and reconnect when doing maintenance (I do mine weekly). Personally I do have to lean the unit when I disconnect based on where I have it set up, but no big deal. I've been experimenting with different media, I do use Purigen that Lenny often sites and I have been also keeping some Phos-Zorb (Seachem) in there as I'm trying to reduce my phosphate level. But certainly plenty of places to experiment with media in there. Some of the original thread appears below. Good luck in whatever you choose! Jim PS. My only tip on the C-360 would be to add some silicone lube on the motorhead gasket and the valve block in/out seals. I did this on the new one and not sure if that or the corrected (presumably) design is making it easier than before to connect/disconnect. But I figure it is good for the gaskets (o-rings) regardless... ------------------- Thread from a few emails below ------------------- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com; on behalf of; Poul Wehner [poul.wehner@...] I've had a C-360 for over a year. The first time I changed the charcoal I noticed one of the rubber/vinyl gaskets had decayed and the unit no longer could maintain flow. I contacted Marineland and they sent out a replacement ring kit within 3 days. It was one of the most responsive customer support situations I've ever encountered. A+++ would buy again :-) On Mon, Nov 2, 2009 at 1:56 PM, Springer,James C. <james.springer@...>wrote: > > > > From: Courtland > > > > does anyone own these filters? how are they? heard a lot of bad > > things about leaks and would like to know if those are issues with the > actual > > filter or people just messing them up? and any other info you can > provide > > about them to help me make my decision > > I've owned a C360 since Jun 2008. I started noticing a leak at beginning > of Sep 2009. I figured I might just need a new set of gaskets. I > contacted Marineland about either lubing the gaskets and/or replacing > them. > > First, they indicated a little silicone lube would be a good thing. > Disappointing was finding there was not replacement gasket (o-ring) for > the main motor-head. However, they indicated to me they thought it might > be the valve-block was not seating properly anymore (they explained why > that would cause the leak I was seeing from the latch). They asked me > for the lot number and they would send me a replacement valve block. As > it turns out they ended up sending me the entire motor-head (the > operational part of the canister) and the valve-block as a replacement! > > They never asked for proof of purchase and they were always very > responsive with our email discourse (I received replies back either same > or next day from them.) > > So my bottom-line, even though it was disappointing to see a leak > develop within this timeframe, their customer support was top notch and > they took care of my problem. I would highly recommend based on this > alone. And if it hadn't been for the leak, I would state I've had no > problems otherwise, it has worked great before and after that. > > My knowledge gained; I did add silicone lube first thing around all the > o-rings on this new assembly. I can't tell you if Marineland had > specific production run problems or not with my lot (I didn't ask). Just > to find great customer service, though it should be the rule, seems to > be the exception unfortunately and that to me is worth its weight in > gold. > > Jim > > PS. I changed out the motorhead and valve block 3 or 4 weeks ago and all > is good. > ------------------- End old thread ------------------- NOTICE: This e-mail message, including any attachments and appended messages, is for the sole use of the intended recipients and may contain confidential and legally privileged information. If you are not the intended recipient, any review, dissemination, distribution, copying, storage or other use of all or any portion of this message is strictly prohibited. If you received this message in error, please immediately notify the sender by reply e-mail and delete this message in its entirety. ------------------------------------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the home page. Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com to receive the digest, which includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com for the No E-Mail option where you will still be able to read messages on the group and post replies. Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com to receive individual e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 45295	From: bill 1433	Date: 12/23/2009
Subject: Re: Canister Filters?

Thanks Mike!   From my family to yours, A Safe and Happy Holiday,   Bill --- On Wed, 12/23/09, Mike Whitfield <mdwfield@...> wrote: From: Mike Whitfield <mdwfield@...> Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: Canister Filters? To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Date: Wednesday, December 23, 2009, 9:52 PM Like most people I've been quite busy and haven't checked my email in three weeks.  But assuming you're still deciding . . . I have mostly hang-on filters, but I do run a Marineland canister on one 75 gallon tank.  I've had it perhaps five or six years.  It's easy to clean and has had no leaks or failures in that time.  I'm going to buy another for a 55 and would recommend the Marineland.  However I have no experience with other brands, so take that for what it's worth. Another Mike   ----- Original Message -----   From: bill 1433   To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com   Sent: Tuesday, December 22, 2009 5:45 PM   Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: Canister Filters?       Jim,       Thanks so much for your reply and taking the extra time.  It's a shame   others can't do the same.  I can't believe that with a membership of over   2,500, only 3 people are using this filter.  Hard to believe isn't it?       Not sure of which one I'll chose but right now the Marineland still has or   seems to have greater filter basket capacity than the Rena.  In any event   I promise to keep you posted on which one wins!  I'm fighting a real space   problem in our small home and a canister is the best way to go.  Thanks again.       Have a safe and Happy Holiday Season,       Bill   --- On Tue, 12/22/09, Springer,James C. <james.springer@...> wrote:   From: Springer,James C. <james.springer@...>   Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: Canister Filters?   To: "AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com" <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com>   Date: Tuesday, December 22, 2009, 12:54 PM   >       From: bill 1433   >       As I mentioned before, in the first week of November, a posting   > was made about these "C" series filters developing leaks but it was   > also mentioned that the company quickly replaced bad parts in a timely   > manner.  Boy that's something!  Can you imagine a Customer Service Department   > that actually helps customers?  What a novel idea!  Anyway there have been no   > bad reports on our group about them unless out of 2,500 members, only 3 use   > these filters?  Hmmmmm, I never thought of that!   Bill,   I was one of the "repliers" on that thread, below I've copied and pasted from that past email (I still had it around). I'm not going to argue for or against your usage of Marineland's filter. I can just relay my experience and that customer support was very good. Judging from my ongoing experience with the new valve block and motor head, it seems to me they have solved whatever issues they had. It seems to sit more snuggly and no leaks since beginning of Oct when I replaced it (with what they sent, they didn't even have me return my original. And quickly, all they asked from me was the "lot number" of the unit I had.) I can't honestly compare to the other filters since I've never used them and can't say anything about their customer service.. I know, it is a sad statement that we are all extremely excited when we get good service but it does sure seem the exception rather than the rule these days.   As far as usage, it is very easy to disconnect the valve block and reconnect when doing maintenance (I do mine weekly). Personally I do have to lean the unit when I disconnect based on where I have it set up, but no big deal. I've been experimenting with different media, I do use Purigen that Lenny often sites and I have been also keeping some Phos-Zorb (Seachem) in there as I'm trying to reduce my phosphate level. But certainly plenty of places to experiment with media in there.   Some of the original thread appears below.   Good luck in whatever you choose!   Jim   PS. My only tip on the C-360 would be to add some silicone lube on the motorhead gasket and the valve block in/out seals. I did this on the new one and not sure if that or the corrected (presumably) design is making it easier than before to connect/disconnect. But I figure it is good for the gaskets (o-rings) regardless...   ------------------- Thread from a few emails below -------------------   From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com; on behalf of; Poul Wehner [poul.wehner@...]   I've had a C-360 for over a year. The first time I changed the charcoal I noticed   one of the rubber/vinyl gaskets had decayed and the unit no longer could maintain   flow. I contacted Marineland and they sent out a replacement ring kit within 3   days. It was one of the most responsive customer support situations I've ever encountered.   A+++ would buy again :-)   On Mon, Nov 2, 2009 at 1:56 PM, Springer,James C. <james.springer@...>wrote:   >   >   > > From: Courtland   >   >   > > does anyone own these filters? how are they? heard a lot of bad   > > things about leaks and would like to know if those are issues with the   > actual   > > filter or people just messing them up? and any other info you can   > provide   > > about them to help me make my decision   >   > I've owned a C360 since Jun 2008. I started noticing a leak at beginning   > of Sep 2009. I figured I might just need a new set of gaskets. I   > contacted Marineland about either lubing the gaskets and/or replacing   > them.   >   > First, they indicated a little silicone lube would be a good thing.   > Disappointing was finding there was not replacement gasket (o-ring) for   > the main motor-head. However, they indicated to me they thought it might   > be the valve-block was not seating properly anymore (they explained why   > that would cause the leak I was seeing from the latch). They asked me   > for the lot number and they would send me a replacement valve block. As   > it turns out they ended up sending me the entire motor-head (the   > operational part of the canister) and the valve-block as a replacement!   >   > They never asked for proof of purchase and they were always very   > responsive with our email discourse (I received replies back either same   > or next day from them.)   >   > So my bottom-line, even though it was disappointing to see a leak   > develop within this timeframe, their customer support was top notch and   > they took care of my problem. I would highly recommend based on this   > alone. And if it hadn't been for the leak, I would state I've had no   > problems otherwise, it has worked great before and after that.   >   > My knowledge gained; I did add silicone lube first thing around all the   > o-rings on this new assembly. I can't tell you if Marineland had   > specific production run problems or not with my lot (I didn't ask). Just   > to find great customer service, though it should be the rule, seems to   > be the exception unfortunately and that to me is worth its weight in   > gold.   >   > Jim   >   > PS. I changed out the motorhead and valve block 3 or 4 weeks ago and all   > is good.   >   ------------------- End old thread -------------------   NOTICE:  This e-mail message, including any attachments and appended messages, is for the sole use of the intended recipients and may contain confidential and legally privileged information.   If you are not the intended recipient, any review, dissemination, distribution, copying, storage or other use of all or any portion of this message is strictly prohibited.   If you received this message in error, please immediately notify the sender by reply e-mail and delete this message in its entirety.   ------------------------------------   Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You.   ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º>   PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <-   <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸.   We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter.   If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the home page.    Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com to receive the digest, which includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email   Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com for the No E-Mail option where you will still be able to read messages on the group and post replies.   Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com to receive individual e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links   [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]   [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] ------------------------------------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the home page.  Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com to receive the digest, which includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com for the No E-Mail option where you will still be able to read messages on the group and post replies. Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com to receive individual e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 45296	From: kuradi8	Date: 12/24/2009
Subject: Re: Canister Filters?

> Bill wrote: > > I can't believe that with a membership of over 2,500, only 3 people are using this filter. Hard to believe isn't it? > 2 HOBs on my 55g. Sorry. ~Kai

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 45297	From: bill 1433	Date: 12/24/2009
Subject: Re: Canister Filters?

Hey Kai! Ya try------------right? Have a Happy and Safe Holiday! Bill --- On Thu, 12/24/09, kuradi8 <kuradi8@...> wrote: > From: kuradi8 <kuradi8@...> > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Canister Filters? > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Date: Thursday, December 24, 2009, 10:04 AM > > > > Bill wrote: > > > > I can't believe that with a membership of over 2,500, > only 3 people are using this filter.  Hard to believe > isn't it? > >  > > > 2 HOBs on my 55g.  Sorry. > ~Kai > > > > > > > ------------------------------------ > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when > replying, Thank You. > ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> > ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> > PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is > NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of > the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new > subject (was re: old subject)" <- > <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. > , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. > > If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of > unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by > clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the home page.  > > Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com > to receive the digest, which includes up to 25 posts at a > time in a single email > > Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com > for the No E-Mail option where you will still be able to > read messages on the group and post replies. > > Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com > to receive individual e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links > > >     AquaticLife-fullfeatured@yahoogroups.com > > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 45298	From: sevenspringss@wmconnect.com	Date: 12/25/2009
Subject: Re: Season's Greetings

******************HAPPY HOLIDAYS***************** A Merry Christmas and a Healthy & Prosperous New Year to All `~~~~~~~~~~~~g~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~h~~~~~~~~~~ - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - c Ray d - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - </HTML>

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 45299	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 12/25/2009
Subject: Re: Season's Greetings

Merry Christmas back at ya!... and to the rest of the group as well. And the only "Fish Merry Christmas" vids I could find on YouTube. ;-) http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f6t9ptmcb9Y http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ip8VtEoaOXE http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BpY2Qw6373o Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of sevenspringss@... Sent: Friday, December 25, 2009 6:23 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Season's Greetings ******************HAPPY HOLIDAYS***************** A Merry Christmas and a Healthy & Prosperous New Year to All `~~~~~~~~~~~~g~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~h~~~~~~~~~~ - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - c Ray d - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 45300	From: pam andress	Date: 12/25/2009
Subject: Re: Season's Greetings

Merry Christmas everyone. Pam [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 45301	From: greyclouds99	Date: 12/25/2009
Subject: Death Announcement

It is with deep regret and sadness that we announce the death of Miss. Marble Angel (At age 2 +-), who passed away this afternoon Friday 25th of a mysterious interior infection that made her belly badly swollen for two days. We - her human and fish family- express our profound pride of Miss. Marble Angel, who showed extreme courage and endurance while fighting the long period of several illnesses, starting with pop-eye and ending with her decease surrounded with our love and care. Children: none. Siblings: plenty, but none that we are aware of their addresses or contact information. Caregiver: Tristan. We ask prayers of all for the happy repose of her soul. May she rest in peace. Tristan

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 45302	From: amejia1976	Date: 12/25/2009
Subject: Raising pH

Howdy all. Hope everyone is having an awesome Christmas. I have a 10g (US) tank with 2 emerald cory, 2 neon tetra, 2 zebra danio and 1 chinese algea eater. 3 month ago I got a 70 g (US) tank. As some of you know I have had issues with it, but it is getting better by the week. Now that I know that water testing and changing are IMPORTANT I have finally started to act the fishkeeper part in my small tank. There is one issue with it. The pH is @ 6.0, Ammonia and Nitrite are both @ 0 but my NITRATES are @ 160. All the fish mentioned above been living in this tank for well over a year without any obvious stress or deaths. If I started doing 10-20% water changes per day will the Nitrate decrease and the pH increase? I am looking to eventually move these fish to my larger tank which is now maintaining a 7.6pH, Ammonia and Nitrite @ 0 and Nitrate @ 10 and am pretty sure I need to get the 2 measurements closer to each other. Alex

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 45303	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 12/25/2009
Subject: Re: Raising pH

Even 10% PWC's might be too much right now... presuming the difference from your tap water baseline (which is probably 7.6 pH) and your tank (which is currently at 6.0 pH) is a 1.6 pH difference. Doing a 10% change would immediately raise the pH by 0.16, which is too much for an immediate change. Even a 5% change should change the pH by 0.08, which is right under the threshold of 0.1 pH change at any specific time. Start with 5% daily for a week, then after a week, bump it up to 10% daily and after another week, you should have the water pretty well stabilized/equalized and nice and *fresh*. Test it to make sure and let us know the numbers. For more info about Nitrates, you can read \\Steve's// long post about Nitrates here... http://pets.groups.yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife/message/13064 and while \\Steve// starts off with, "There does seem to be a lot of unnecessary concern of nitrate levels expressed by people on this list for relatively low levels of nitrate.", your level of 160ppm is WAY above the levels which we like to maintain, which is below 40ppm or even below 20ppm. This article will explain that, while nitrates at your level will not kill most fish, it is BAD for them in the long term and will shorten their lifespan. It would be comparable to humans smoking cigarettes... so the fish are breathing nitrates (instead of tar, nicotine, etc.) over a long period of time which then cause many other health issues and a much shorter lifespan. Merry Christmas! Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of amejia1976 Sent: Friday, December 25, 2009 1:34 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Raising pH Howdy all. Hope everyone is having an awesome Christmas. I have a 10g (US) tank with 2 emerald cory, 2 neon tetra, 2 zebra danio and 1 chinese algea eater. 3 month ago I got a 70 g (US) tank. As some of you know I have had issues with it, but it is getting better by the week. Now that I know that water testing and changing are IMPORTANT I have finally started to act the fishkeeper part in my small tank. There is one issue with it. The pH is @ 6.0, Ammonia and Nitrite are both @ 0 but my NITRATES are @ 160. All the fish mentioned above been living in this tank for well over a year without any obvious stress or deaths. If I started doing 10-20% water changes per day will the Nitrate decrease and the pH increase? I am looking to eventually move these fish to my larger tank which is now maintaining a 7.6pH, Ammonia and Nitrite @ 0 and Nitrate @ 10 and am pretty sure I need to get the 2 measurements closer to each other. Alex

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 45304	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 12/25/2009
Subject: Re: Raising pH

I'm pretty sure he doesn't have enough KH and GH in his tankwater to keep the pH up, that's why it has dropped to 6. The same thing happened in all of my tanks, and without adding crushed coral all my pH's would be around 6, by adding crushed coral I have stabilized my pH to 7.2. I asked about a month ago if he had a KH/GH test kit, if he had one this would answer my question very well and as to whether or not he should be adding any type of buffer to his fish tanks. Amber Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > > Even 10% PWC's might be too much right now... presuming the difference > from > your tap water baseline (which is probably 7.6 pH) and your tank (which is > currently at 6.0 pH) is a 1.6 pH difference. Doing a 10% change would > immediately raise the pH by 0.16, which is too much for an immediate > change. > Even a 5% change should change the pH by 0.08, which is right under the > threshold of 0.1 pH change at any specific time. > > Start with 5% daily for a week, then after a week, bump it up to 10% daily > and after another week, you should have the water pretty well > stabilized/equalized and nice and *fresh*. Test it to make sure and let us > know the numbers. > > For more info about Nitrates, you can read \\Steve's// long post about > Nitrates here... > http://pets.groups.yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife/message/13064 > <http://pets.groups.yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife/message/13064> and while > \\Steve// starts off with, "There does seem to be a lot of unnecessary > concern of nitrate levels expressed by people on this list for relatively > low levels of nitrate.", your level of 160ppm is WAY above the levels > which > we like to maintain, which is below 40ppm or even below 20ppm. This > article > will explain that, while nitrates at your level will not kill most > fish, it > is BAD for them in the long term and will shorten their lifespan. It would > be comparable to humans smoking cigarettes... so the fish are breathing > nitrates (instead of tar, nicotine, etc.) over a long period of time which > then cause many other health issues and a much shorter lifespan. > > Merry Christmas! > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right > side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On > Behalf Of amejia1976 > Sent: Friday, December 25, 2009 1:34 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Subject: [AquaticLife] Raising pH > > Howdy all. > > Hope everyone is having an awesome Christmas. > > I have a 10g (US) tank with 2 emerald cory, 2 neon tetra, 2 zebra > danio and > 1 chinese algea eater. > > 3 month ago I got a 70 g (US) tank. As some of you know I have had issues > with it, but it is getting better by the week. > > Now that I know that water testing and changing are IMPORTANT I have > finally > started to act the fishkeeper part in my small tank. There is one > issue with > it. The pH is @ 6.0, Ammonia and Nitrite are both @ 0 but my NITRATES > are @ > 160. All the fish mentioned above been living in this tank for well over a > year without any obvious stress or deaths. > If I started doing 10-20% water changes per day will the Nitrate decrease > and the pH increase? I am looking to eventually move these fish to my > larger > tank which is now maintaining a 7.6pH, Ammonia and Nitrite @ 0 and > Nitrate @ > 10 and am pretty sure I need to get the 2 measurements closer to each > other. > > Alex > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 45305	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 12/25/2009
Subject: Re: Raising pH

Correct, but absent the test results, we have to presume there are at least some level of GH and KH in the tap water since the pH is 7.6 in the other tank and I believe that is the tap water baseline as well. To get to the 160ppm of nitrates, the nitrifying bacteria will have used up a LOT of KH and the pH will also drop down quite a bit with lack of tank maintenance due to the amounts of CO2 and carbonic acid being put out by decaying detritus... as well as the heavy bioload on the 10G tank. Since the fish have been living in these adverse conditions for so long, they need to be SLOWLY acclimated back to good, clean, fresh water arrangements so they do not get stressed/shocked by the change from bad to good water conditions. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Amber Berglund Sent: Friday, December 25, 2009 5:22 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Raising pH I'm pretty sure he doesn't have enough KH and GH in his tankwater to keep the pH up, that's why it has dropped to 6. The same thing happened in all of my tanks, and without adding crushed coral all my pH's would be around 6, by adding crushed coral I have stabilized my pH to 7.2. I asked about a month ago if he had a KH/GH test kit, if he had one this would answer my question very well and as to whether or not he should be adding any type of buffer to his fish tanks. Amber Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > > Even 10% PWC's might be too much right now... presuming the difference > from > your tap water baseline (which is probably 7.6 pH) and your tank (which is > currently at 6.0 pH) is a 1.6 pH difference. Doing a 10% change would > immediately raise the pH by 0.16, which is too much for an immediate > change. > Even a 5% change should change the pH by 0.08, which is right under the > threshold of 0.1 pH change at any specific time. > > Start with 5% daily for a week, then after a week, bump it up to 10% daily > and after another week, you should have the water pretty well > stabilized/equalized and nice and *fresh*. Test it to make sure and let us > know the numbers. > > For more info about Nitrates, you can read \\Steve's// long post about > Nitrates here... > http://pets.groups.yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife/message/13064 > <http://pets.groups.yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife/message/13064> and while > \\Steve// starts off with, "There does seem to be a lot of unnecessary > concern of nitrate levels expressed by people on this list for relatively > low levels of nitrate.", your level of 160ppm is WAY above the levels > which > we like to maintain, which is below 40ppm or even below 20ppm. This > article > will explain that, while nitrates at your level will not kill most > fish, it > is BAD for them in the long term and will shorten their lifespan. It would > be comparable to humans smoking cigarettes... so the fish are breathing > nitrates (instead of tar, nicotine, etc.) over a long period of time which > then cause many other health issues and a much shorter lifespan. > > Merry Christmas! > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right > side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On > Behalf Of amejia1976 > Sent: Friday, December 25, 2009 1:34 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Subject: [AquaticLife] Raising pH > > Howdy all. > > Hope everyone is having an awesome Christmas. > > I have a 10g (US) tank with 2 emerald cory, 2 neon tetra, 2 zebra > danio and > 1 chinese algea eater. > > 3 month ago I got a 70 g (US) tank. As some of you know I have had issues > with it, but it is getting better by the week. > > Now that I know that water testing and changing are IMPORTANT I have > finally > started to act the fishkeeper part in my small tank. There is one > issue with > it. The pH is @ 6.0, Ammonia and Nitrite are both @ 0 but my NITRATES > are @ > 160. All the fish mentioned above been living in this tank for well over a > year without any obvious stress or deaths. > If I started doing 10-20% water changes per day will the Nitrate decrease > and the pH increase? I am looking to eventually move these fish to my > larger > tank which is now maintaining a 7.6pH, Ammonia and Nitrite @ 0 and > Nitrate @ > 10 and am pretty sure I need to get the 2 measurements closer to each > other. > > Alex

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 45306	From: sevenspringss@wmconnect.com	Date: 12/26/2009
Subject: Re: Raising pH

Smaller KH values can result in a drop in pH to even one as low as this one (at pH 6.0), which most often will even be seen as occurring in short time due to this low buffering capacity and shorter duration to acidifying influences. If it's not otherwise known, it should be realized that over the long term that the natural process of nitrification with its end product of Nitrate WILL -- as a continuous influence on the chemistry of the water -- slowly but surely (and with ever-increasing action) lower the pH when it eventually breaks the buffering capacity even of water of moderately high Temporary Hardness (KH) as this Nitrate continues to build up; Nitrate is essentially NITRIC ACID in the aquarium! When neglecting to perform adequate (any?) PWC's on an aquarium, and especially as in this case of over one year with apparent little maintenance in changing water and inadequate (or non-existing) live plant material, the Nitrate will be seen to build up exponentially to the point to where it will eventually overwhealm the buffering capacity even of water having quite high KH -- ultimately causing such drastic pH drops -- not to mention such high Nitrate has adverse effects on the health of our fish. But, one doesn't need to know the basics of chemistry -- over time, when not removing this Nitrate via PWC's, it will build up (as in this case to 160 ppm) not only to the point that it will cause the pH to drop, but because of this greater quantity of it, will cause health problems in the fish. Additionally, Nitrate build-ups are always accompanied by harmful build-ups of DOC (Dissolved Organic Carbons/Compounds) which are also detrimental to the well being of fishes. Ray [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 45307	From: sevenspringss@wmconnect.com	Date: 12/26/2009
Subject: Re: Death Announcement

Sorry to hear about the passing of Miss Marble, Tristan -- It may have been for the best, considering all she went through and with this latest issue she was battling. This badly swollen belly, and consequent death as a result of it should not have been totally unexpected as, if this latest infection was due to Dropsey (as it sounds) one prevalent cause of it is Pseudomonas bacteria -- the same bacteria that can cause Pop-Eye. I trust you've changed your substrate by now to the more uniform and somewhat smaller grain sized gravel (#3 Commercial) that I suggested, so as to eliminate the environmental opportunities/conditions that promote the prosperity of these types (anaerobic) of bacteria that will often exist in that mixed-size larger gravel you had been using. If not, I would suggest your doing this at your first opportunity for the health of your remaining fishes. As this gravel is almost universally available, you should be able to obtain it. Ray [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 45308	From: Dora Smith	Date: 12/26/2009
Subject: How long should I keep Nathaniel on how much medication?

Nathaniel has columnaris. He grew a pale brown mane. I painted it with gentian violet two days, and I've ahd him in a gallon of water with a quarter of a Jungle fungus clear tablet. The prescribed dose is 1 tablet per 10 gallons. The contents are nitrofurazone, furazolidone, and potassium dichromate. I tried to give him anti-bactieria pellets with sulfa, but I can't get him to eat it. Nathaniel's mane is gone, but he still seems sick. His body is often bent or sway-backed, and he can only eat a pellet or two at a time. What do you think? Dora Smith Austin, TX tiggernut24@...

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 45309	From: sevenspringss@wmconnect.com	Date: 12/26/2009
Subject: Re: How long should I keep Nathaniel on how much medication?

Dora, You can't do much better than to treat Nathaniel with Nitrofurazone, as long as your pH remains below 8.0. Above that pH, Triple Sulfa would be more effective. As Columnaris is an external issue, there's no need to feed him anti-bacterial foods against this FlexiBacteria. A topical treatment of Genetian Violet will aid in being effective, but may be stressful on smaller fish; I would reserve this for larger fishes if I were to use it -- which is generally not necessary. Keep us posted on his condition. You should know that an abrupt change in water temperature (in addition to poor water quality) can promote the onset of FlexiBacteria -- especially an INCREASE in temperature. In this case, although Bettas prefer a higher temperature (of 77 o, 78 o or so), while treatment is in progress you should try to avoid having his water at 76 o or above. Columnaris thrives in temperatures above 76 o. Ray [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 45310	From: Noura	Date: 12/27/2009
Subject: Dancing Tetra

Hi, my Tetra Serpae has been "dancing" for about ten days now, I put him in a hospital tank one week ago and treated him with antibiotic and salt, but with no change. Now the issue is that I don't see him eating at all, the MTS's are taking care of the food, I feel like he's trying to reach up for food -all while doing the "dancing" moves- but he can't. He can't pick on the food at the buttom either, maybe because his illness is casing him to stay in a vertical dancing position all the time. I have no idea how did he survive so far without having the "starving fish shape", his belly looks normal, I guess he should have a thin belly with all the calorie burning that he's doing :) There aren't any external signs of illness other than the constant dancing in one corner of the tank (it doesn't matter if the filter was turned on or off, he always stays in that spot). One more note, the water's level is about 26 cm (11"), do you think I should decrease the water's volume to the minimum height of 20 cm (less than that the internal filter won't be submerged). There's another question about plants, I'll post it in a separate thread. Noura T. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 45311	From: Noura	Date: 12/27/2009
Subject: Plant Maintenance

Hi again, Attached to this email you can see my live plant, which I think is Anubias. As you can see there's a lot of roots and the stem is much longer than when I purchased the plant. The stem is attached to the driftwood piece with a fishing string, and produces a new leaf every 3-4 weeks. I got it about a year ago. How should I maintain this plant, I would like to cut some roots off, is it okey? In case you want to know, my water is alkaline and very hard: Nitrite 0 Nitrates 50 GH 10 KH 16 pH 7.7 - 8.2 (it varies from month to month) Noura T. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 45312	From: sevenspringss@wmconnect.com	Date: 12/27/2009
Subject: Re: Dancing Tetra

Hi Noura, Sorry to hear that your serpae Tetra is having problems. From your description, it sounds like this fish has a swim bladder issue. Unfortunately, this disorder can have many causes, from blocked intestines, to viral or bacterial infections. Noticed you've treated with salt and antibiotics, however you don't state which antibiotic you used. Not all antibiotics are the same and the majority of them are not that readily absorbed internally where it's needed in this case. I realize you have limited access to many medications, and I believe I may have recommended a few to you just recently, which you can't obtain. Try locating anything containing Kanamycin Sulfate, Minocycline or Naladixic Acid for starters and if you can't locate any of these, let me know just which medications you can find. Before we go any further though, could you tell us if this fish had a good appetite before this condition started? A poor appetite or not eating at all could indicate an intestinal blockage. This can often be relieved with the use of Epsom Salt, 1 Tablespoon per 5 U.S. gallons (18.925 liter). Yes, you could try lowering the water level. As you do suspect, this "tail walking" IS using up energy at a faster pace. If this infection can be arrested (and if it is an infection), a good appetite can often supply enough nutrition to allow the air bladder to function normally once again. A fish the size of this Tetra can go without eating for about two weeks before you start seeing a sunken belly, although at the faster pace he's using up energy, this time frame would be shortened. </HTML>

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 45313	From: noura_taweel	Date: 12/27/2009
Subject: Re: Dancing Tetra

Hi Ray, and thank you for your help. The antibiotic I used was (Lincomycin) capsules made for human use, for 6 days, as I had it in hand and had no fish medication that targets internal infections. Don't ask me how did I determine the correct dose, I didn't, all I did was emptying half of the capsule in the 10 Gallon tank after solving it in water well. I can obtain either Malachite Green liquid (sp?), or Naladixic Acid (capsules made for humans), or Minocycline (Capsules of 50 or 100 mg for humans). As for the Tetra's appetite before, I can't determine that, I know the Tetras were eating, but couldn't observe if a certain one was, as they all looked alike and there was no sign of illness in all the community tank whatsoever. While waiting for further recommendations, I'll empty some of the Hospital tank's water. I can see him now trying really hard to reach up, but there's no food at the surface now, and when he does succeed to reach the surface, he just picks at it like a labyrinth fish. It makes me wonder why is he so determined about reaching the surface! Noura T. --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, sevenspringss@... wrote: > > > > Hi Noura, Sorry to hear that your serpae Tetra is having problems. From > your description, it sounds like this fish has a swim bladder issue. > Unfortunately, this disorder can have many causes, from blocked intestines, to > viral or bacterial infections. Noticed you've treated with salt and > antibiotics, however you don't state which antibiotic you used. Not all antibiotics > are the same and the majority of them are not that readily absorbed internally > where it's needed in this case. I realize you have limited access to many > medications, and I believe I may have recommended a few to you just > recently, which you can't obtain. Try locating anything containing Kanamycin > Sulfate, Minocycline or Naladixic Acid for starters and if you can't locate any of > these, let me know just which medications you can find. > > Before we go any further though, could you tell us if this fish had a good > appetite before this condition started? A poor appetite or not eating at > all could indicate an intestinal blockage. This can often be relieved with > the use of Epsom Salt, 1 Tablespoon per 5 U.S. gallons (18.925 liter). Yes, > you could try lowering the water level. As you do suspect, this "tail > walking" IS using up energy at a faster pace. If this infection can be arrested > (and if it is an infection), a good appetite can often supply enough > nutrition to allow the air bladder to function normally once again. A fish the size > of this Tetra can go without eating for about two weeks before you start > seeing a sunken belly, although at the faster pace he's using up energy, this > time frame would be shortened. </HTML> >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 45314	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 12/27/2009
Subject: Re: Plant Maintenance

Pictures do not come through this group's postings... for security reasons. You would have to upload the picture to your own photo album (like Flickr, Webshots, PhotoBucket, etc.) or use the Group's photo's section to create your own album and upload it there. Then give us a link to the photo. Anubias is the Genus for which there are MANY species... many of which may prefer differing water parameters. If you can reach these two sites... http://www.aquaticplantcentral.com/forumapc/plantfinder/index.php http://www.plantgeek.net/plantguide_asearch.php ... you can put Anubias in the Genus search field and find the profiles for most of the commonly available species in the Anubias Genus. It would be best for you to be able to look at the photos on these profiles until you find the one that matches your plant so you will then know the exact species and know more about the care of the plant. For me, the APC link only found five profiles in their database, whereas the PG link found two pages of profiles, many of which were variants of A. barteri. Let me know if you cannot get to either of the above sites or use their databases. Here's a forum thread on APC with some suggestions of plants that do better in hard water and higher pH. http://www.aquaticplantcentral.com/forumapc/general-aquarium-plants-discussi ons/63863-high-ph-hard-water-plants.html I should probably sign in over there and answer the last question in the thread since nobody else seemed to know the answer... which is, there is probably a higher CO2 level in the tap water which outgases once the water is out of the tap... which is why the pH goes up from 7.4 to 8.2 from the initial tap water test to once the water is in the tank. If that poster had read my blog article about "Find Your Tap Water Baseline...", they would know the answer to all of their final unanswered questions! ;-) Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Noura Sent: Sunday, December 27, 2009 12:34 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Plant Maintenance Hi again, Attached to this email you can see my live plant, which I think is Anubias. As you can see there's a lot of roots and the stem is much longer than when I purchased the plant. The stem is attached to the driftwood piece with a fishing string, and produces a new leaf every 3-4 weeks. I got it about a year ago. How should I maintain this plant, I would like to cut some roots off, is it okey? In case you want to know, my water is alkaline and very hard: Nitrite 0 Nitrates 50 GH 10 KH 16 pH 7.7 - 8.2 (it varies from month to month) Noura T.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 45315	From: Dora Smith	Date: 12/27/2009
Subject: Should I put Nathaniel out of his misery?

I've been treating Nathaniel for five days, and while the fuzz is gone, he seems to be slowly getting worse, definitely not better. He is sluggish, he doesn't want to eat, he throws up, and he often lists to the side, and his body is often bent. I'm wondernig at what point I should euthanize him? Yours, Dora Smith Austin, TX tiggernut24@...

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 45316	From: Noura	Date: 12/27/2009
Subject: Re: Plant Maintenance

After looking at all these pictures, I'm almost sure that my plant is Anubias nana, but I'm also less proud that it survived for more than a year in my aquarium, as I read that it's a VERY hardy plant, known to be the "plastic plant that grows!". Anyway, I'm trying to upload a picture, I'll post the link when I succeed. Noura ----- Original Message ----- From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Monday, December 28, 2009 1:17 AM Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Plant Maintenance Pictures do not come through this group's postings... for security reasons. You would have to upload the picture to your own photo album (like Flickr, Webshots, PhotoBucket, etc.) or use the Group's photo's section to create your own album and upload it there. Then give us a link to the photo. Anubias is the Genus for which there are MANY species... many of which may prefer differing water parameters. If you can reach these two sites... http://www.aquaticplantcentral.com/forumapc/plantfinder/index.php http://www.plantgeek.net/plantguide_asearch.php ... you can put Anubias in the Genus search field and find the profiles for most of the commonly available species in the Anubias Genus. It would be best for you to be able to look at the photos on these profiles until you find the one that matches your plant so you will then know the exact species and know more about the care of the plant. For me, the APC link only found five profiles in their database, whereas the PG link found two pages of profiles, many of which were variants of A. barteri. Let me know if you cannot get to either of the above sites or use their databases. Here's a forum thread on APC with some suggestions of plants that do better in hard water and higher pH. http://www.aquaticplantcentral.com/forumapc/general-aquarium-plants-discussi ons/63863-high-ph-hard-water-plants.html I should probably sign in over there and answer the last question in the thread since nobody else seemed to know the answer... which is, there is probably a higher CO2 level in the tap water which outgases once the water is out of the tap... which is why the pH goes up from 7.4 to 8.2 from the initial tap water test to once the water is in the tank. If that poster had read my blog article about "Find Your Tap Water Baseline...", they would know the answer to all of their final unanswered questions! ;-) Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Noura Sent: Sunday, December 27, 2009 12:34 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Plant Maintenance Hi again, Attached to this email you can see my live plant, which I think is Anubias. As you can see there's a lot of roots and the stem is much longer than when I purchased the plant. The stem is attached to the driftwood piece with a fishing string, and produces a new leaf every 3-4 weeks. I got it about a year ago. How should I maintain this plant, I would like to cut some roots off, is it okey? In case you want to know, my water is alkaline and very hard: Nitrite 0 Nitrates 50 GH 10 KH 16 pH 7.7 - 8.2 (it varies from month to month) Noura T. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 45317	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 12/27/2009
Subject: Re: Should I put Nathaniel out of his misery?

Since he's the only fish in the tank, I would give him as much time as possible. God gives all creatures (and us humans) the will to live so you just never know if/when they may recover. The only time I've ever considered putting an animal down (would never consider it for a human) is if the animal is showing signs of extreme pain and suffering. That point is a personal choice that each pet owner has to decide. Some fish that I've rescued over the years have been in really bad shape and made a recovery... sometimes taking several weeks. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Dora Smith Sent: Sunday, December 27, 2009 5:57 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Should I put Nathaniel out of his misery? I've been treating Nathaniel for five days, and while the fuzz is gone, he seems to be slowly getting worse, definitely not better. He is sluggish, he doesn't want to eat, he throws up, and he often lists to the side, and his body is often bent. I'm wondernig at what point I should euthanize him? Yours, Dora Smith Austin, TX tiggernut24@...

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 45318	From: Dr. Norman Ali Bassam Khalaf	Date: 12/27/2009
Subject: Bowmouth Guitarfish (Rhina ancylostoma) at Sharjah Aquarium, UAE

Bowmouth Guitarfish (Rhina ancylostoma Bloch & Schneider, 1801) at Sharjah Aquarium, Sharjah, United Arab Emirates. By: Dr. Sc. Norman Ali Bassam Ali Taher Khalaf-Sakerfalke von Jaffa. Article Reference: Khalaf-Sakerfalke von Jaffa, Dr. Sc. Norman Ali Bassam Ali Taher (2009). Bowmouth Guitarfish (Rhina ancylostoma Bloch & Schneider, 1801) at Sharjah Aquarium, Sharjah, United Arab Emirates. Gazelle: The Palestinian Biological Bulletin. ISSN 0178 – 6288. Twenty-seventh Year, Number 93, September 2009, Ramadan 1430 AH. pp. 1-18. Website: http://bowmouth-guitarfish-emirates.webs.com/bowmouthguitarfishuae.htm On the 18th of July 2008, I visited the newly opened Sharjah Aquarium in the city of Sharjah, United Arab Emirates, accompanied with my wife Ola and daughter Nora. I saw "Nidal", the Bowmouth Guitarfish (Rhina ancylostoma Bloch & Schneider, 1801) swimming in the big tank. Bowmouth Guitarfish (Rhina ancylostoma Bloch & Schneider, 1801) : The bowmouth guitarfish (Rhina ancylostoma Bloch & Schneider1801) is a member of the order of Rajiformes, being related to skates and rays. It is the only member of the genus Rhina. They are considered the "Pandas" of the aquatic world because they are so rare in any aquarium setting. There are less than 10 locations in the world with Bowmouth Guitarfish in exhibit. Scientific Name : Rhina ancylostoma Bloch & Schneider, 1801. Unambiguous Synonyms : 1. Rhina anclyostoma Bloch and Schneider, 1801 2. Rhina ancylostomus Bloch and Schneider, 1801 3. Rhina cyclostomus Swainson, 1839 4. Squatina ancyclostoma Bloch and Schneider, 1801. Common English Names: Bowmouth Guitarfish, Bowmouth Wedgefish, Bow-Mouthed Angel Fish, Mud Skate, Shortnose Mud Skate, Shark Ray. German Names: Rundkopf-Geigenrochen, Bogenmaul-Geigenrochen, Geigenrochen, Hairochen. Arabic Names: Samaket Al-Qithara that Al-Fam Al-Muqawas, Samak Warnak Al-Tyn, Samak Al-Shefneen Al-Qirsh, Abu Kabus, Al-Hreri thu Al-Fam Al-Muqawas, Al-Bahloul . Somali Names: Oolo-Oolo Tuurey. Tamil Names: Mun-Ultava, Pula-Man Uluvai. Sinhalese Names: Pulaman Oliya, Thitha Mora. Malay Names: Yu Kemejan. Rhina ancylostoma is a widely distributed Indo-west Pacific inshore species taken by multiple artisanal and commercial fisheries throughout its range both as a target species and as bycatch. Flesh is sold for human consumption in Asia and the fins from large animals fetch exceptionally high prices, creating a significant incentive for bycatch to be retained. Very little is known about the biology or population status of this species, but it appears not to be common anywhere. Given its susceptibility to capture by multiple fishing gear types, including trawl nets, gillnets and hooks, and its high value fins, it is probable that numbers have been locally reduced by fishing throughout its range. Local population depletion can be inferred from Indonesia where the target gillnet fishery fleet for rhinids and rhynchobatids has declined significantly, reportedly due to declining catch rates. It is probable that the population will continue to decline, at least, until target fisheries become uneconomical. Habitat destruction is also thought to pose a significant threat to Rhina ancylostoma throughout much of its range. Thus, given its susceptibility to capture, high value fins, inferred and observed declines, and continual fisheries pressure placed across most of its range the species is assessed globally as Vulnerable. There are no target fisheries for Rhina ancylostoma in Australia but it is a known bycatch of demersal trawl fisheries. The introduction of Turtle Exclusion Devices (TEDs) in some Australian trawl fisheries and the implementation of various elasmobranch-finning prohibitions, has probably led to a recent reduction in captures by this sector, hence the Near Threatened classification for this species in Australian waters, although the situation should be monitored due to the vulnerability of this species and the high value of its fins. Range : Indo-west Pacific: East Africa (Red Sea to South Africa), Arabian Sea to Papua New Guinea, north to Japan, across northern Australia from Exmouth Gulf in Western Australia to New South Wales. Countries (Native) : Australia (New South Wales, Northern Territory, Queensland, Western Australia); Bahrain; China; Djibouti; Egypt; Eritrea; India; Indonesia (Jawa, Kalimantan); Iran; Japan; Kenya; Korea; Kuwait; Malaysia; Mozambique; Oman; Pakistan; Papua New Guinea; Philippines; Qatar; Saudi Arabia; Seychelles; Solomon Islands; Somalia; South Africa (KwaZulu-Natal); Sri Lanka; Sudan; Taiwan; Tanzania; Thailand; United Arab Emirates; Vietnam; Yemen. Description : It is a large fish, growing up to 2.7 meter long and weighing up to 135 kilograms. The snout is round, and a spiny medial ridge runs down the body with lesser lateral ridges and thorns over the eyes, on the back and shoulders. The jaws have undulating ridges of crushing teeth. It is white underneath and grey or brown above with many white spots on the body, fins and tail and black spots on the head. It is ovoviviparous. It does not have the distinctive ocelli of the giant guitarfish. It is believed the name "Shark Ray" was derived from its shark like dorsal fins and ray like flat underside. Bowmouth Guitarfish have a rounded snout and a head that is distinctly separate from the pectoral fins (or the fins used for swimming). The Bowmouth Guitarfish looks "pre-historic" with horn like ridges along the head and back. They are born with unique leopard like spots on their backs that stay with them. No two Bowmouth Guitarfish will have a spotted pattern that match. Diet : The bowmouth guitarfish feeds on shrimps, crabs and shellfish. Habitat and Ecology : Coastal distribution throughout the range, generally occurring close inshore and around coral reefs between 3 meters and 90 meter depth. R. ancylostoma occurs on or close to the seabed, mainly over sandy or muddy substrates, and associated with coral reefs and mangroves. Very little is known about the life history characteristics of this species, however, they grow to at least 270 cm (Compagno and Last, 1999), reproduce ovoviviparously and feed primarily on benthic crustaceans (Compagno and Last, 1999). Further research on the biology and exploitation of this species is required. Population : The R. ancylostoma population is thought to have decreased in parts of Indonesia (Chen, 1996) but its population status elsewhere is unclear. Red List Category : Vulnerable. Year Assessed : 2003. Assessors : McAuley, R. and Compagno, L. J. V. (SSG Australia & Oceania Regional Workshop, March 2003). Evaluators : Fowler, S.; Kyne, P. M. and Cavanagh, R. D. (Shark Red List Authority). Interaction with Man : The bowmouth guitarfish may be caught in trawls but is difficult to handle and may damage the catch. Only the pectoral fins are eaten; these are preserved by salting or drying or used fresh. It is listed as vulnerable on the IUCN red list. A few are in public aquariums, such as the Sharjah Aquarium in Sharjah, U.A.E.; the Dubai Mall Aquarium in Dubai, U.A.E., and the Adventure Aquarium, Camden, New Jersey, U.S.A. Many believe this particular species of fish to have been caught by Russian fishermen, and eaten, but not until after taking a video of the fish with a cell phone, then became the internet phenomenon known as the "Russian Alien Fish". The first breeding program for these is at the Newport Aquarium in Kentucky, USA. Major Threats : Rhina anclyostoma is one of the target species of South East Asian rhinid and rhynchobatid gillnet fisheries, which are generally unregulated and catches are thought to be poorly recorded (Chen, 1996). The target gillnet fishery fleet in Indonesia declined from 500 boats in 1987 to 100 boats in 1996, reportedly due to declining catch rates (Chen, 1996). There are no target fisheries for this species in Australia. It is also taken as bycatch in numerous non-target fisheries due to its vulnerability to multiple gear types, including trawl-nets, gillnets and hooks (Stobutzki et al., 2002, Stephenson and Chidlow, 2003). Flesh is sold for human consumption in Asia and the fins from large animals fetch particularly high prices. Habitat degradation is also likely to be a threat to this species, particularly in Southern and South East Asia. Habitat destruction and pollution are thought to pose a significant threat. Specifically, dynamite fishing, coral bleaching and siltation caused by deforestation may be reducing available habitat. Conservation Actions : The introduction of Turtle Excluder Devices (TEDs) in trawl nets of some Australian fisheries, has significantly reduced their capture of large elasmobranchs (Brewer et al., 1998), however TEDs are not mandatory in several trawl fisheries in northern Australian and are probably not widely used in other parts of this species' range. The introduction of TEDs in other Australian trawl fisheries is highly recommended for mitigating bycatch of this and other at risk elasmobranchs. Finning of Rhynchobatids is also prohibited in some parts of Australia but there is thought be a continuing black market trade in their fins (Rose and McLoughlin, 2001). The First Record from Dibba Bayah, Sultanate of Oman: On 8 August 2007, Mr. C. Chellapermal was alerted by the presence of a strange "ray" on the docks of Dibba Bayah Port, Sultanate of Oman (25 degree 36', 56 degree 17'E). It was a female, measuring a total length of 180 cm, with a broad, rounded snout, two dorsal fins of which the first was above the pelvic fins, large high pectoral fins, and remarkable ridges of spiky thorns over the eyes and on the back and shoulders. Its colour was olive-grey above with numerous white spots on tide fins, upper body and tail, and white below. A faded black band could be seen between the two prominent spiracles behind the eyes. At first sight, it was identified as a species of "Angelshark" (Squatinidae). But unlike most Angelsharks, its pectoral and pelvic fins were not overlapping and its gills were located at the insertion of the pectoral fins to the head. Its mouth, with teeth in undulating rows, was situated well behind the snout, indicating bottom-dwelling feeding habits. After consulting published references (Compagno 1984, Randall 1995, Carpenter et al. 1997, Bonfil and Abdallah 2004) and the scientific online resource "FishBase" (Froese and Pauly 2007), the species was quickly identified as a Bowmouth Guitarfish or Shark Ray (Rhina ancylostoma Bloch & Schneider, 1801). This benthic species inhabits coastal areas close inshore where it lives on sand and mud, feeding mainly on crustaceans and molluscs. Its distribution in the Indo-West Pacific ranges from the Red Sea and East Africa to Papua New Guinea, north to Japan, and south to New South Wales, Australia (Michael 1993, Compagno and Last 1999, Bonfil and Abdallah 2004). Being taken as a by-catch by demersal trawl fisheries, this species is classified as "Vulnerable" by IUCN (2007). The Bowmouth Guitarfish is said to be rare in the region and is even absent from published local fish fauna lists (Randall 1995, Carpenter et al. 1997, Field 2005, Hellyer and Aspinall 2005). Interviewed Omani fishermen mentioned that some individuals are caught from time to time, but that only the fins are used for human consumption (Tourenq, C.; Shuriqi, M. K.; Foster, K.; Foster, G.; Chellapermal, C. , 2008). Sharjah Aquarium, Sharjah, United Arab Emirates : His Highness Sheikh Dr. Sultan Bin Muhammad Al Qasimi, Member of the Supreme Council and Ruler of Sharjah, opened the Sharjah Aquarium, on Friday 6th June 2008. The aquarium, located in the Al Khan area, provides visitors to Sharjah with a wonderful and rare glimpse into the mysterious marine life of the United Arab Emirates. Visitors will discover the secrets of this precious aquatic world when they tour the aquarium and follow the paths through different marine ecosystems including those deep in the depths of the sea. There are more than 250 different native species, from the smallest clown fish and delicate seahorses to moray eels, rays and reef sharks living in different ecosystems like rock pools, coral reefs, lagoons and mangroves. The aquarium is among the best in the world with its state-of-the-art technology and underwater collection. The Sharjah Museums Department is dedicated to providing information about the fish, their lives and their habitats, and to this end, has complimented the showcases with documentaries on the marine life of the UAE, displayed on large, electronic screens. The aquarium is also dedicated to the preservation of marine life and to learning more about reproductive and environmental issues according to the directives of His Highness, Ruler of Sharjah. At the end of the aquarium tour, for example, the visitor will see a display of mangrove trees, essential in preserving the environment. The aquarium also has a wonderful and comfortable area for visitors overlooking Al Khan Creek. Opening Hours: Saturday – Thursday: 8:00 a.m. – 8:00 p.m.; Friday: 4:00 p.m. – 8:00 p.m.; Sunday: Closed. Ticket Price: Adults 20 AED; Child (6 - 15 years) 10 AED; Child (5 years old & under) free; Family (2 Adults & 3 Children) 50 AED; Adults Groups (6 or more persons) 15 AED; Child Groups (6 or more persons) 5 AED. References and Internet Websites : Adventure Aquarium. Ocean Realm. www.adventureaquarium.com/oceanrealm.cfm Anonymous (2003). Rhina ancylostoma Bowmouth Guitarfish. Fishbase. Annali del Museo civico di storia naturale di Genova. Genova: Tip. del R. Istituto Sordo-Muti, 1870-1914. ITA. p. 252, p. 253. Biblio Records for Rhina ancylostoma. http://fishbase.ifm-geomar.de/Biblio/BiblioSummaryList.php?ID=8729&GenusName=Rhi\ na&SpeciesName=ancylostoma Bonfil, Ramon and Mohamed Abdallah (2004). Field identification guide to the sharks and rays of the Red Sea and Gulf of Aden. FAO Species Identification for Fishery Purposes. Rome, FAO. 2004. 71 p. 12 colour plates. http://books.google.de/books?id=IpX1CVGxsNYC&pg=PP5&lpg=PP5&dq=Bonfil,+R.,+%26+M\ .+Abdallah+(2004).++for+Fishery&source=bl&ots=qw4zveNC8V&sig=dKub24i_uYjMlVgG7ke\ QoN1oRds&hl=de&ei=U0wxS72tMs2LkAWz1-GCCQ&sa=X&oi=book_result&ct=result&resnum=2&\ ved=0CBMQ6AEwAQ#v=onepage&q=Bonfil%2C%20R.%2C%20%26%20M.%20Abdallah%20(2004).%20\ for%20Fishery&f=false Brewer, D.T., Rawlinson, N., Eayrs, S. and Burrige, C. (1998). An assessment of bycatch reduction devices in a tropical Australian prawn trawl fishery. Fish Research 36: 195-215. Budker, P. (1971). The Life of Sharks. Columbia University Press, New York, 222 p. [A somewhat dated overview of shark biology and ecology]. Carpenter, K.E., F. Krupp, D.A. Jones and U. Zajonz (1997). FAO species identification field guide for fishery purposes. Living marine resources of Kuwait, eastern Saudi Arabia, Bahrain, Qatar, and the United Arab Emirates. FAO, Rome. 293 p. Carrier, J.C., J.A. Musick, and M.R. Heithaus (eds.). (2004). Biology of Sharks and Their Relatives. CRC Press, New York, 596 p. [Excellent review of shark and skate biology]. Castro, J.I. (1983). The Sharks of North American Waters. Texas A&M University Press, College Station, 180 p. [A good identification guide to sharks]. Chen, H.K. (ed.) (1996). An overview of shark trade in selected countries of Southeast Asia. TRAFFIC Southeast Asia, Petaling Jaya. Compagno, L.J.V. (1984). Sharks of the World. An Annotated and Illustrated Catalogue of Shark Species Known to Date. Part 1 - Hexanchiformes to Lamniformes. FAO Fisheries Synopsis 125, Vol. 4, Pt. 1. pp. 1-249. [THE definitive source for information on species and distributions of sharks]. Compagno, L.J.V. (1984). Sharks of the World. An Annotated and Illustrated Catalogue of Shark Species Known to Date. Part 2 - Carcharhiniformes. FAO Fisheries Synopsis 125, Vol. 4, Pt. 2. pp. 251-655. [THE definitive source for information on species and distributions of sharks]. Compagno, L.J.V. (2001). Sharks of the world. An annotated and illustrated catalogue of shark species known to date. Volume 2. Bullhead, mackerel and carpet sharks (Heterodontiformes, Lamniformes and Orectolobiformes). FAO Species Catalogue for Fishery Purposes. No. 1, Vol. 2. Rome, FAO. 269p. [THE definitive source for information on species and distributions of sharks]. Compagno, L.J.V., M. Dando, and S. Fowler (2005). Sharks of the world. Princeton Field Guides, Princeton University Press, 368 p. [Excellent popular guide to shark species of the world]. Compagno, L.J.V. and P.R. Last (1999). Rhinidae (=Rhynchobatidae). Wedgefishes. pp. 1418-1422. In: K.E. Carpenter and V.H. Niem (eds.) FAO identification guide for fishery purposes. The Living Marine Resources of the Western Central Pacific. Volume 3. Batoid fishes, chimaeras and bony fishes part 1 (Elopidae to Linophyrnidae), FAO, Rome. Cousteau, Jacques-Yves and Philippe Cousteau (1970). The Shark: Splendid Savage of the Sea. Doubleday & Company, Inc., New York, 277 p. [Popular account of sharks with dated misconceptions]. Ellis, R. (1976). The Book of Sharks. New York; Grosset & Dunlap, 256 p. [Great illustrations]. Eschmeyer, William N., ed. (1998). Catalog of Fishes. Special Publication of the Center for Biodiversity Research and Information, no. 1, vol 1-3. California Academy of Sciences. San Francisco, California, USA. 2905. ISBN: 0-940228-47-5. Field, Richard F. (2005). Reef Fishes - UAE and Gulf of Oman. Motivate Publishing, Dubai. ISBN 1-86063-161-4. 144 pages. 303 colour plates. Fishbase. Rhina ancylostoma Bloch & Schneider, 1801. Bowmouth guitarfish. www.fishbase.org/Summary/speciesSummary.php?ID=8729&genusname=Rhina&speciesname=\ ancylostoma Fishery bulletin / U.S. Dept. of Commerce, National Oceanic and Atmospheric Administration, National Marine Fisheries Service. Washington, D.C.: The Service: ENG p. 808. Fricke, R. (1999). Fishes of the Mascarene Islands (Réunion, Mauritius, Rodriguez): an annotated checklist, with descriptions of new species. Koeltz Scientific Books, Koenigstein, Theses Zoologicae, Vol. 31: 759 p. Froese, Rainer and Daniel Pauly (Editors) (2007). Rhina ancylostoma. FishBase. www.fishbase.org/Summary/speciesSummary.php?ID=8729&genusname=Rhina&speciesname=\ ancylostoma Gloerfelt-Tarp, T. and P.J. Kailola (1984). Trawled fishes of southern Indonesia and northwestern Australia. Australian Development Assistance Bureau, Australia, Directorate General of Fishes, Indonesia, and German Agency for Technical Cooperation. Gordon, I. (1992). A new record extending the southerly distribution of the shark ray (Rhina ancylostomus), and notes on the behaviour of the specimen in captivity. Australian Journal of Marine and Freshwater Research 43(1) 319 – 323. www.publish.csiro.au/paper/MF9920319.htm Hellyer, Peter and Simon Aspinall (eds.) (2005). The Emirates - A Natural History. ISBN 1-905486-02-2 - Hardback. U. K. Henderson, Aaron C., Jennifer L. McIlwain, Hamed S. Al-Oufi and Sulaiman Al-Sheili (2007). The Sultanate of Oman shark fishery: Species composition, seasonality and diversity. Fisheries Research, Volume 86, Issues 2-3, September 2007, Pages 159-168. www.sciencedirect.com/science?_ob=ArticleURL&_udi=B6T6N-4NWCGR8-4&_user=1790654&\ _rdoc=1&_fmt=&_orig=search&_sort=d&view=c&_acct=C000054312&_version=1&_urlVersio\ n=0&_userid=1790654&md5=707f20d8dbf6e1d313d6590e46e01934 Jordan, David Starr. The genera of fishes. A contribution to the stability of scientific nomenclature. By David Starr Jordan. Stanford University, Calif., The University, 1917-1920. ENG. p. 237, p. 307, p. 307. Kailola, P.J. (1987). The fishes of Papua New Guinea. A revised and annotated checklist. Vol. 1. Myxinidae to Synbranchidae. Research Bulletin No. 41. Department of Fisheries and Marine Resources, Port Moresby, Papua New Guinea. 194 p. Kapoor, D., R. Dayal and A.G. Ponniah (2002). Fish biodiversity of India. National Bureau of Fish Genetic Resources Lucknow, India. 775 p. Khalaf, Norman Ali Bassam (1980). Tabie't Al-Talawon fi Al-Haywanat (The Colouration of Animals). Al-Biology Bulletin. Number 1. January 1980, Safar 1401. Biological Society, Kuwait University, State of Kuwait. pp. 4-5. (In Arabic). Khalaf, Norman Ali Bassam (1981). Fawa'ed Alasmak. (The Benefits of Fishes). Al-Biology Magazine, Biological Society, Kuwait University, State of Kuwait. Number 1. Sunday 7.6.1981, 5. Sha'ban 1401. pp. 54-55. (In Arabic). Khalaf, Norman Ali Bassam (1982). Samak Al-Coelacanth (The Coelacanth Fish). Al-Biology Magazine. Number 2. February 1982. Biological Society, Kuwait University, State of Kuwait. pp. 14-15. (In Arabic). Khalaf, Norman (Translator) (1982). Al-Miah Al-Mulawatha Tohaded Al-Asmak Bi'ilinqiraad (Water Pollution threatens the Fish Fauna with Extinction). Al-Biology Bulletin. Number 18, Third Year, First Semester, Saturday 6.11.1982. Biological Society, Kuwait University, State of Kuwait. pp. 7. (Translation from German into Arabic). Khalaf, Norman Ali (1983). Al-Samaka Al-`Auljumiyah Al-Naqaqa fi Al-Khaleej Al-Arabi [The Toad Fish (Batrachus grunniens) in the Arabian Gulf]. Bulletin of the Biological Studies Club, Kuwait University, State of Kuwait. First Year, Number 3, 23 November 1983. pp. 10-11. (In Arabic). Khalaf, Norman Ali (Translator) (1983). Al-Tasjeel Al-Hay Al-Awal li-Samaket Kozat Al-Snobar (Monocentris japonicus, Houttuyn) min Al-Bahr Al-Ahmar [The Pinecone Fish (Monocentris japonicus, Houttuyn), A First Live Record from the Red Sea] by: Chaim Kropach. Bulletin of the Biological Studies Club, Kuwait University, State of Kuwait. First Year, Number 4, 7.12.1983. pp. 6-8. (In Arabic). Khalaf, Norman Ali B. (1986). The Schooling of Fishes. Gazelle: The Palestinian Biological Bulletin. Number 9. Fourth Year. Ramadan 1406. May 1986. Department of Zoology, University of Durham, Durham, United Kingdom. pp. 1-13. Khalaf, Norman Ali B. (1986). The Fish Fauna in Van Mildert Pond, Durham City, North East England. Gazelle: The Palestinian Biological Bulletin. Number 9. Fourth Year. Ramadan 1406. May 1986. Department of Zoology, University of Durham, Durham, United Kingdom. pp. 14-20. Khalaf, N. A. B. (1986). The Schooling of Sumatra Barbs (Barbus tetrazona tetrazona) and Minnows (Phoxinus phoxinus). Dissertation, Master of Science in Ecology, Departments of Zoology and Botany, University of Durham, England. September 1986. pps. 59 + iv. Khalaf, Norman Ali B. (1987). The Coelacanth (Latimeria chalumnae) in the Science and Natural History Museum, State of Kuwait. Gazelle: The Palestinian Biological Bulletin. Number 15. Fifth Year. July 1987. Rilchingen-Hanweiler, Germany. pp. 1-8. Khalaf, Norman Ali Bassam (1987). On a Collection of Devon Period Animal Fossils from the Saarland, in the Geologische Museum Saarberg in Saarbrücken, Germany. Gazelle: The Palestinian Biological Bulletin. Rilchingen-Hanweiler, Federal Republic of Germany. Number 15, Fifth Year, Thul Qi'dah 1407 AH, July 1987 AD. pp. 9-10. Khalaf, Norman Ali B. (1987). The Great White Shark (Carcharodon carcharias) from the State of Kuwait, Arabian Gulf. Gazelle: The Palestinian Biological Bulletin. Number 16. Fifth Year. Safar 1408 AH. September 1987 AD. Rilchingen-Hanweiler, Federal Republic of Germany. pp. 1-7. Khalaf, Norman Ali (1989). Qa'ema li-ba'd Asmak Al-Kuwait fi Al-Mathaf Al-`Ilmi Bi-Dawlat Al-Kuwait (A List of some Kuwaiti Fishes from the Science & Natural History Museum, State of Kuwait). Gazelle: The Palestinian Biological Bulletin. Number 19. Seventh Year. December 1989. Bonn 2-Bad Godesberg, Federal Republic of Germany. pp. 3. (In Arabic and English). Khalaf-von Jaffa, Norman Ali Bassam (1991). A Trip to Zoo Budapest, Hungary. Gazelle: The Palestinian Biological Bulletin. Bonn-Bad Godesberg, Federal Republic of Germany. Number 21, Ninth Year, January 1991. pp. 1-4. Khalaf-von Jaffa, Norman Ali Bassam (1991). The Gulf War and its effect on the Arabian Ecosystem (Part One). Gazelle: The Palestinian Biological Bulletin. Bonn-Bad Godesberg, Federal Republic of Germany. Number 23, Ninth Year, July 1991. pp. 1-12. Khalaf-von Jaffa, Norman Ali Bassam (1991). The Gulf War and its effect on the Arabian Ecosystem (Part Two). Gazelle: The Palestinian Biological Bulletin. Bonn-Bad Godesberg, Federal Republic of Germany. Number 24, Ninth Year, August 1991. pp. 1-10. Khalaf-von Jaffa, Norman Ali Bassam (1991). The Gulf War and its effect on the Arabian Ecosystem (Part Three). Gazelle: The Palestinian Biological Bulletin. Bonn-Bad Godesberg, Federal Republic of Germany. Number 25, Ninth Year, September 1991. pp. 1-7. Khalaf, Norman Ali Bassam (1992). Notes on the Biological Ecology of the Marshes in Southern Iraq. Gazelle: The Palestinian Biological Bulletin. Bonn-Bad Godesberg, Federal Republic of Germany. Number 29, Tenth Year, September 1992. pp. 1-9. (In Arabic). Khalaf, Norman Ali Bassam (1992). The United Nations Ecological Report confirms: The Regime of Saddam is destroying the Marshes (Al-Ahwar) Ecosystem. Sawt Al-Kuwait International Newspaper. Saturday 17 October 1992, 21 Rabi'e Al-Thani 1412. pp. 15. (In Arabic). Khalaf-von Jaffa, Norman Ali Bassam (1992). An Introduction to the Animal Life in Palestine. Gazelle. Gazelle: The Palestinian Biological Bulletin. Bonn-Bad Godesberg, Federal Republic of Germany. Number 30, Tenth Year, October 1992. pp. 1-7. (In Arabic). Khalaf-von Jaffa, Norman Ali B. (1993). Al-Mushkilatan Al-Ma'eyah wa Al-Bi'eyah fi Al-Dafah Al-Gharbiyah wa Qita' Ghaza Al-Muhtalain (Ka-Juzu' min Al-Sharq Al-Awsat) [The Water and the Ecological Problems in the Occupied West Bank and Gaza Strip (As Part of the Middle East)]. Gazelle: The Palestinian Biological Bulletin. Number 31. Eleventh Year. December 1993. Bonn, Federal Republic of Germany. pp. 1- 29. (In Arabic). Khalaf-von Jaffa, Norman Ali Bassam (1994). An Introduction to the Animal Life in Palestine. Shqae'q Al-Nouma'n (Anemone coronaria). A Quarterly Magazine Issued by the Program EAI (Education for Awareness and for Involvement). Environmental Education / Children for Nature Protection. In Cooperation with Dept. of General and Higher Education. P.L.O., Palestine. Number 4. Huzairan (June) 1994. pp. 16-21. (In Arabic). Acquaintance Card: Majallet Al-Ghazzal (Gazelle Magazine): The Palestinian Biological Bulletin. Bonn, Germany. Shqae'q Al-Nouma'n (Anemone coronaria). A Quarterly Magazine Issued by the Program EAI (Education for Awareness and for Involvement). Environmental Education / Children for Nature Protection. In Cooperation with Dept. of General and Higher Education. P.L.O., Palestine. Number 4. Huzairan (June) 1994. pp. 51-52. (In Arabic). Khalaf-von Jaffa, Norman Ali B.(1995). Alasmak fi Filistin (Die Fische von Palästina / The Fishes of Palestine). Gazelle: The Palestinian Biological Bulletin. Number 33. Thirteenth Year. December 1995. Bonn, Germany. pp.1-35. (In Arabic). Khalaf, Ali Bassam (1997). Amir Al-Bahar Al-Arabi (The Arabian Sea Prince) Shihab Al-Deen Ahmad Bin Majed. Magazin der Akademie. Nummer 1. Zu Elke'da 1417 H, März 1997. König Fahad Akademie – Bonn, Bonn-Bad Godesberg, Deutschland. pp. 23-24. (In Arabic). Khalaf, Norman Ali Bassam (2001). The Extinct and Endangered Animals in Palestine. In: Gazelle: The Palestinian Biological Bulletin Home Page. Extinct and Endangered Animals and Reintroduction. http://gazelle.8m.net/photo3.html Khalaf-Sakerfalke von Jaffa, Norman Ali Bassam Ali Taher (Gründer) (seit Juni 2001). Yahoo! Deutschland Group: Wale und Delphine. http://de.groups.yahoo.com/group/Wale_und_Delphine/ Khalaf-von Jaffa, Norman Ali (2004). Gazelle: Das Palästinensische Biologische Bulletin. Eine Wissenschaftliche Reise in Palästina, Arabien und Europa zwischen 1983 – 2004. / Gazelle: The Palestinian Biological Bulletin. A Scientific Journey in Palestine, Arabia and Europe between 1983 – 2004. Erste Auflage / First Edition, Juli 2004: 452 Seiten / Pages. Zweite erweiterte Auflage (Second Extended Edition), August 2004: 460 Seiten / Pages. Norman Ali Khalaf, Bonn-Bad Godesberg, Germany. ISBN 3-00-014121-9. http://dr-norman-ali-khalaf-books.webs.com/ Khalaf-von Jaffa, Norman Ali (2005). Der Komoren-Quastenflosser (Latimeria chalumnae) und der Manado-Quastenflosser (Latimeria menadoensis). Gazelle: The Palestinian Biological Bulletin. Number 38. Twenty Third Year. February 2005. Sharjah, United Arab Emirates. pp. 1-8. http://www.quastenflosser.webs.com/ & http://de.groups.yahoo.com/group/Quastenflosser/message/7 Khalaf-von Jaffa, Norman Ali (2005). The Story of Prophet Musa (Moses) and the Fish. Gazelle: The Palestinian Biological Bulletin. Sharjah, United Arab Emirates. Number 38, Twenty-third Year, February 2005. pp. 14-15. Khalaf-von Jaffa, Norman Ali (2005). Moses Perch (Lutjanus russelli, Bleeker 1849). Gazelle: The Palestinian Biological Bulletin. Sharjah, United Arab Emirates. Number 38, Twenty-third Year, February 2005. pp. 15. Khalaf-von Jaffa, Norman Ali (2005). The Fish of Musa (Samak Musa). Gazelle: The Palestinian Biological Bulletin. Sharjah, United Arab Emirates. Number 38, Twenty-third Year, February 2005. pp. 16. Khalaf-von Jaffa, Norman Ali (2005). Samak Al-Luchs (Al-Hamoor) or the Orange-Spotted Grouper (Epinephelus coioides) in Palestine (Mediterranean Sea) and the United Arab Emirates (Arabian Gulf). Gazelle: The Palestinian Biological Bulletin. Sharjah, United Arab Emirates. Number 39, Twenty-third Year, March 2005. pp. 1-6. Khalaf-von Jaffa, Norman Ali (2005). Jaffa (Yaffa): The History of an Old Palestinian Arab City on the Mediterranean Sea. Gazelle: The Palestinian Biological Bulletin. Sharjah, United Arab Emirates. Number 39, Twenty-third Year, March 2005. pp. 7-8. Khalaf-von Jaffa, Norman Ali (2005). The Andromeda Sea Monster of Jaffa. Gazelle: The Palestinian Biological Bulletin. Sharjah, United Arab Emirates. Number 39, Twenty-third Year, March 2005. pp. 8. Khalaf-von Jaffa, Norman Ali (2005). The Jewfish (Epinephelus itajara) / Der Riesenzackenbarsch oder Judenfisch (Epinephelus itajara). Gazelle: The Palestinian Biological Bulletin. Sharjah, United Arab Emirates. Number 39, Twenty-third Year, March 2005. pp. 9-12. Khalaf-von Jaffa, Norman Ali (2005). The Arabian Freshwater Fishes in the Arabia's Wildlife Centre, Sharjah Desert Park, Sharjah, United Arab Emirates. Gazelle: The Palestinian Biological Bulletin. Number 40, Twenty-third Year, April 2005. pp. 1-9. Sharjah, United Arab Emirates. http://emirati-blind-cave-fish.webs.com/arabianfreshwaterfish.htm Khalaf-von Jaffa, Norman Ali (Gründer) (seit Juni 2005). Der Quastenflosser: Coelacanth Latimeria Yahoo! Deutschland Group. http://de.groups.yahoo.com/group/Quastenflosser/ Khalaf-von Jaffa, Norman Ali (2005). The Koran Angelfish (Pomacanthus semicirculatus, Cuvier, 1831). Gazelle: The Palestinian Biological Bulletin. Number 44. Twenty-third Year. August 2005. Jamada Alakhira 1426. Sharjah, United Arab Emirates. pp. 1-8. http://koran-angelfish.webs.com/ Khalaf-von Jaffa, Norman Ali (2005). Aquatica Arabica. An Aquatic Scientific Journey in Palestine, Arabia and Europe between 1980 - 2005 / Aquatica Arabica. Eine Aquatische Wissenschaftliche Reise in Palästina, Arabien und Europa zwischen 1980 - 2005. Erste Auflage / First Edition, August 2005: 376 Seiten / Pages. Norman Ali Khalaf, Rilchingen-Hanweiler, Bundesrepublik Deutschland & Sharjah, United Arab Emirates. ISBN 3-00-014835-3. http://dr-norman-ali-khalaf-books.webs.com/aquaticaarabica.htm Khalaf, N.A.B. (2005). The Schooling of Sumatra Barbs (Barbus tetrazona tetrazona) and Minnows (Phoxinus phoxinus). [M.Sc. Dissertation in Ecology, Departments of Zoology and Botany, University of Durham, England. September 1986. pps. 59 + iv]. In: Aquatica Arabica. An Aquatic Scientific Journey in Palestine, Arabia and Europe between 1980 - 2005. Erste Auflage, August 2005. Norman Ali Khalaf, Rilchingen-Hanweiler, Bundesrepublik Deutschland & Sharjah, United Arab Emirates. pp. 28-93. Khalaf-von Jaffa, Norman Ali (2005). The Rafah Zoo in the Rafah Refugee Camp, Gaza Strip, Palestine : A Story of Destruction by the Israeli Occupation Army. Gazelle: The Palestinian Biological Bulletin. Number 46, Twenty-third Year, October 2005, Ramadan 1426. pp. 1-11. Sharjah, United Arab Emirates. (In Arabic). Khalaf-von Jaffa, Norman Ali Bassam (2005). The Qalqilia Zoo and the Natural History Museum in the City of Qalqilia, West Bank, Occupied Palestine. Gazelle: The Palestinian Biological Bulletin. Number 47, Twenty-third Year, November 2005, Shawal 1426. pp. 1-10. Sharjah, United Arab Emirates. (In Arabic). Khalaf-von Jaffa, Norman Ali Bassam (Member of PALESTA) (2005). Palestinian Scientists and Technologists Abroad (PALESTA). Gazelle: The Palestinian Biological Bulletin. Number 47, Twenty-third Year, November 2005, Shawal 1426. pp. 11-12. Sharjah, United Arab Emirates. (In Arabic). Khalaf, Norman Ali Bassam Ali Taher (2006). Eine Persönlichkeit aus Jaffa, Palästina / A Personality from Jaffa, Palestine: Bassam Ali Taher Khalaf (Abu Ali) (1938-2006). Gazelle: The Palestinian Biological Bulletin. Number 56, Twenty-fourth Year, August 2006. pp. 8-19. Sharjah, United Arab Emirates. http://bassam-ali-taher-khalaf.webs.com/ Khalaf-Sakerfalke von Jaffa, Norman Ali Bassam Ali Taher (2006). Ein Besuch im Neunkircher Zoo, Neunkirchen, Saarland, Deutschland / A Visit to Neunkirchen Zoo, Neunkirchen, Saarland, Germany. Gazelle: The Palestinian Biological Bulletin. Number 59, November 2006. pp. 1-25. Sharjah, United Arab Emirates. (in Arabisch / Arabic). http://khalaf.homepage24.de/text_88839638_85658724_59480041_deutsch.html Khalaf, Norman Ali Bassam Ali Taher (2007). Zum 1. Todestag : Eine Persönlichkeit aus Jaffa, Palästina / The First Death Anniversary : A Personality from Jaffa, Palestine : Bassam Ali Taher Khalaf (Abu Ali) (1938-2006). Gazelle: Das Palästinensische Biologische Bulletin. Nummer 62, Februar 2007, Muharram 1428 AH. Seite 11. Sharjah, Vereinigte Arabische Emirate. http://bassam-ali-taher-khalaf.webs.com/ Khalaf-Sakerfalke von Jaffa, Norman Ali Bassam Ali Taher (Gründer) (seit Juni 2007). Yahoo! Deutschland Group: Fauna Palaestina. http://de.groups.yahoo.com/group/Fauna_Palaestina/ Khalaf-Sakerfalke von Jaffa, Norman Ali Bassam Ali Taher (Gründer) (seit August 2007). Haie – Sharks Yahoo! Deutschland Group. http://de.groups.yahoo.com/group/Haie_Sharks/ Khalaf-Sakerfalke von Jaffa, Norman Ali Bassam Ali Taher (Gründer) (seit September 2007). Yahoo! Deutschland Group: Fauna Arabica. http://de.groups.yahoo.com/group/Fauna_Arabica/ Khalaf-Sakerfalke von Jaffa, Norman Ali Bassam Ali Taher (2007). Haywanat Filistin (Fauna of Palestine). Wikipedia, Al-Mawsu'a Al-Hurra (The Free Encyclopedia). Gazelle: The Palestinian Biological Bulletin. Number 69, Twenty-fifth Year, September 2007 CE, Sha'ban 1428 AH. pp. 1-4. (in Arabic). http://ar.wikipedia.org/wiki/%D8%AD%D9%8A%D9%88%D8%A7%D9%86%D8%A7%D8%AA_%D9%81%D\ 9%84%D8%B3%D8%B7%D9%8A%D9%86 Khalaf-Sakerfalke von Jaffa, Dr. Sc. Norman Ali Bassam Ali Taher (2007). A Whale Shark (Rhincodon typus, Smith 1828) caught off the Kuwaiti Coast: The Second Record from the State of Kuwait, Arabian / Persian Gulf. Gazelle: The Palestinian Biological Bulletin. Number 71, November 2007. pp. 1-20. Sharjah, United Arab Emirates. (Abstracts in English and Arabic).http://whale-shark.webs.com/whalesharkinkuwait.htm Khalaf-Sakerfalke von Jaffa, Dr. Sc. Norman Ali Bassam Ali Taher (2007). Rhiniodon typus Smith, 1828 or Rhincodon typus Smith, 1829: The Story of a Scientific Name. Gazelle: The Palestinian Biological Bulletin. Number 71, November 2007. pp. 21. Sharjah, United Arab Emirates. http://whale-shark.webs.com/rhiniodontypus.htm Khalaf-Sakerfalke von Jaffa, Dr. Sc. Norman Ali Bassam Ali Taher (2007). Whale Sharks in Palestinian Waters: A Whale Shark (Rhincodon typus, Smith 1828) rescued near the Tantura Beach, Carmel Coast, North Palestine: The First Record from the Palestinian Mediterranean Coast. Gazelle: The Palestinian Biological Bulletin. Number 71, November 2007. pp. 22-23. Sharjah, United Arab Emirates. (Abstracts in English and Arabic). http://whale-shark.webs.com/ Khalaf-Sakerfalke von Jaffa, Dr. Sc. Norman Ali Bassam Ali Taher (2007). Whale Sharks in Palestinian Waters: Whale Sharks (Rhincodon typus, Smith 1828) near Um Al-Rashrash (Eilat) Beach, Gulf of Aqaba, South Palestine: First Records from the Palestinian Red Sea Coast. Gazelle: The Palestinian Biological Bulletin. Number 71, November 2007. pp. 23-26. Sharjah, United Arab Emirates. (Abstract in English and Arabic). http://whale-shark.webs.com/ Khalaf-Sakerfalke von Jaffa, Dr. Sc. Norman Ali Bassam Ali Taher (2007). An Ocean Sunfish or Common Mola (Mola mola, Linnaeus 1758) caught off the coast of Gaza: The First Record from Palestine, East Mediterranean Sea. Gazelle: The Palestinian Biological Bulletin. Number 72, December 2007, pp. 1-16. (Abstracts in English and Arabic). http://gaza-sunfish.webs.com/ Khalaf-Sakerfalke von Jaffa, Dr. Sc. Norman Ali Bassam Ali Taher (2008). Cetacea Palaestina: The Whales and Dolphins in Palestinian Waters. Cetacean Species Guide for Palestine. Gazelle: The Palestinian Biological Bulletin. Number 83, November 2008, Thu Al-Qi'ada 1429 AH. pp. 1-14. Sharjah, United Arab Emirates. http://cetacea-palaestina.webs.com/ Khalaf, Dr. Sc. Norman Ali Bassam Ali Taher (2009). Zum 3. Todestag : Eine Persönlichkeit aus Jaffa, Palästina / The Third Death Anniversary : A Personality from Jaffa, Palestine : Bassam Ali Taher Khalaf (Abu Ali) (1938-2006). Gazelle: Das Palästinensische Biologische Bulletin. Nummer 86, Februar 2009, Safar 1430 AH. Seite 21. Sharjah, Vereinigte Arabische Emirate. http://bassam-ali-taher-khalaf.webs.com/ Khalaf-Sakerfalke von Jaffa, Dr. Sc. Norman Ali Bassam Ali Taher (2009). A Longcomb Sawfish (Pristis zijsron Bleeker, 1851) caught off the coast of Dibba, United Arab Emirates, Gulf of Oman. Gazelle: The Palestinian Biological Bulletin. Number 88, April 2009, Rabi'e Al Thani 1430 AH. pp. 1-14. http://dibba-sawfish.webs.com/ Khalaf-Sakerfalke von Jaffa, Dr.Sc. Norman Ali Bassam Ali Taher (2009). Garra barreimiae wurayahi Khalaf, 2009 : A New Blind Cave Fish Subspecies from Wadi Al Wurayah Pools, Emirate of Fujairah, United Arab Emirates. Gazelle: The Palestinian Biological Bulletin. ISSN 0178 – 6288. Number 90, June 2009, Jumada Al-Akhera 1430 AH. pp. 1-15. Sharjah, United Arab Emirates. http://emirati-blind-cave-fish.webs.com/ Khalaf-Sakerfalke von Jaffa, Dr. Sc. Norman Ali Bassam Ali Taher (2009). Flora and Fauna in Palestine. Gazelle: The Palestinian Biological Bulletin. ISSN 0178 – 6288. Number 91, July 2009, Rajab 1430 AH. pp. 1-31. Sharjah, United Arab Emirates. http://flora-fauna-palestine.webs.com/ Khalaf-Sakerfalke von Jaffa, Dr. Sc. Norman Ali Bassam Ali Taher (2009). Oreochromis mossambicus bassamkhalafi Khalaf, 2009 : A New Mozambique Tilapia Subspecies from Wadi Al Wurayah Pools, Emirate of Fujairah, United Arab Emirates. Gazelle: The Palestinian Biological Bulletin. ISSN 0178 – 6288. Number 92, August 2009, Sha'ban 1430 AH. pp. 1-25. Sharjah, United Arab Emirates. http://emirati-tilapia.webs.com/ Khalaf-von Jaffa, Dr. Norman Ali Bassam (2009). Fauna Palaestina – Part One. A Zoological Journey in Palestine, Arabia and Europe between 1983 – 2006 / Fauna Palaestina – Teil Eins. Eine Zoologische Reise in Palästina, Arabien und Europa zwischen 1983 – 2006. ISBN 978-9948-03-865-8. Erste Auflage/First Edition, September 2009: 412 Seiten/Pages. Self Publisher: Dr. Norman Ali Bassam Khalaf-von Jaffa, Sharjah, United Arab Emirates & Rilchingen-Hanweiler, Bundesrepublik Deutschland. http://dr-norman-ali-khalaf-books.webs.com/faunapalaestinapart1.htm Dr. Sc. Norman Ali Bassam Ali Taher Khalaf-Sakerfalke von Jaffa, Zoologist, Ecologist and Geologist : The Scientific References (1980-2009). http://dr-norman-ali-khalaf-references.webs.com/ Khalaf-Sakerfalke von Jaffa, Dr. Sc. Norman Ali Bassam Ali Taher (2009). Bowmouth Guitarfish (Rhina ancylostoma Bloch & Schneider, 1801) at Sharjah Aquarium, Sharjah, United Arab Emirates. Gazelle: The Palestinian Biological Bulletin. ISSN 0178 – 6288. Twenty-seventh Year, Number 93, September 2009, Ramadan 1430 AH. pp. 1-18. http://bowmouth-guitarfish-emirates.webs.com/bowmouthguitarfishuae.htm Khalaf, Ola Mostafa (Fotografin) (2008). Rundkopf-Geigenrochen (Rhina ancylostoma), Sharjah Aquarium, Vereinigte Arabische Emirate. Foto: 18.07.2008. www.fotocommunity.de/pc/pc/mypics/1213310/display/17739228 Kuwait Marine Life. Asmak Al-Guitar (Al-Hreri). (In Arabic). http://kuwaitmarinelife.com/?p=46 Last, P.R. and Stevens, J.D. (1994). Sharks and Rays of Australia. CSIRO, Australia. Masuda, H., K. Amaoka, C. Araga, T. Uyeno and T. Yoshino (1984). The fishes of the Japanese Archipelago. Vol. 1 (text). Tokai University Press, Tokyo, Japan. 437 p. (text), 370 pls. McAuley, R. & Compagno, L. J. V. (2003). Rhina ancylostoma. In: IUCN 2009. IUCN Red List of Threatened Species. Michael, S. W. (1993). Reef Sharks and Rays of the World. A Guide to their identification, behavior, and ecology. Petaluma, California: Sea Challengers. 107p. Nguyen Huu Phung and Tran Hoai Lan (1994). Checklist of marine fishes in Vietnam. Vol. 1. Amphioxi and Chondrichthyes. Science and Technics Publishing House, Vietnam. Proceedings of the United States National Museum. Washington: Smithsonian Institution Press, ENG p. 643. Norman, J. R. and F. C. Fraser (1949). Field book of giant fishes. With 8 plates in full color and over 100 drawings by W. P. C. Tenison. New York, G. P. Putnam [1949] ENG p. 357, p. 58. Randall, J.E. (1995). Coastal fishes of Oman. University of Hawaii Press, Honolulu, Hawaii. 439 p. Randall, J.E. and C. Anderson (1993). Annotated checklist of the epipelagic and shore fishes of the Maldives Islands. Ichthyol. Bull. of the J.L.B. Smith Inst. of Ichthyol. 59:47. Rhina ancylostoma. www.iucnredlist.org/apps/redlist/details/41848/0 Rhina ancylostoma (Bow-Mouthed Angel Fish). http://zipcodezoo.com/Animals/R/Rhina_ancylostoma/ Rose, C. and McLoughlin, K. (2001). Review of Shark Finning in Australian Fisheries. Final Report to the Fisheries Resources Research Fund. Bureau of Rural Sciences, Canberra. Sharjah Aquarium. http://www.sharjahaquarium.ae/ Sharjah Museums (Friday, 06/06/2008). 30 species of fish are on display at Sharjah Aquarium with plans for more. The Ruler of Sharjah opened Sharjah Aquarium. Sharjah Museums. www.sharjahmuseums.ae/SMDWebsite/News/30-species-of-fish-are-on-display-at-Sharj\ ah-Aquar.aspx Shark References. Compiled by: George H. Burgess. Florida Museum of Natural History, University of Florida. Gainesville, FL 32611. www.flmnh.ufl.edu/fish/Sharks/References/references.htm Shark Specialist Group. http://www.iucnssg.org/ Shark-fin traders thrive in UAE. www.oceansentry.org/lang-en/menu-news/menu-sharks/1831-shark-fin-traders-thrive-\ in-uae.html Shen, S.C. (ed.) (1993). Fishes of Taiwan. Department of Zoology, National Taiwan University, Taipei. 960 p. Smith, J.L.B. and M.M. Smith (1963). The fishes of Seychelles. Rhodes University, Grahamstown. 215 p. Sommer, C., W. Schneider and J.-M. Poutiers (1996). FAO species identification field guide for fishery purposes. The living marine resources of Somalia. FAO, Rome. 376 p. Stephenson, P. and Chidlow, J. (2003). By-catch in the Pilbara Trawl Fishery. Final report to Natural Heritage Trust, 74 pp. Stobutzki, I.C.; Miller, M.J.; Heales, D.S. and Brewer, D.T. (2002). Sustainability of elasmobranches caught as bycatch in a tropical prawn (shrimp) trawl fishery. Fishery Bulletin, 100: 800-821. Tee-Van, John (Editor-in-chief). Fishes of the western North Atlantic. New Haven, Sears Foundation for Marine Research, Yale Univ., 1948- ENG p. 45. The Journal of the College of Science, Imperial University of Tokyo, Japan = Tokyo Teikoku Daigaku kiyo. Rika. Tokyo, Japan: The University, 1898-1925. ENG. p. 25. Tourenq, C.; Shuriqi, M. K.; Foster, K.; Foster, G.; Chellapermal, C. (2008). First record of a Bowmouth Guitarfish, Rhina ancylostoma, in Northern Oman, with an up-date on the status of elasmobranchs (sharks and rays) in the United Arab Emirates. Zoology in the Middle East . 2008.Vol. 44. http://d.wanfangdata.com.cn/NSTLQK_NSTL_QK17973198.aspx & www.kasparek-verlag.de/ZME-contents26-50.htm Wantiez, L. (1993). Les poissons des fonds meubles du lagon Nord et de la Baie de Saint-Vincent de Nouvelle-Calédonie: Description des peuplements, structure et fonctionnement des communautés. Ph.D. Thesis, Université d' Aix-Marseille II, France. Wikipedia. Bowmouth guitarfish. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bowmouth_guitarfish Wikipedia. Rundkopf-Geigenrochen. http://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rundkopf-Geigenrochen

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 45319	From: sevenspringss@wmconnect.com	Date: 12/27/2009
Subject: Re: Dancing Tetra

Noura, I would go with the Naladixic Acid, as it's both readily absorbable and is a true broad-spectrum antibiotic, having WIDE activity against gram-negative AND gram-positive bacteria. It's an underestimated and often unappreciated agent, which is too seldom used for the many applications it can be used for. It has been used successfully many times against Dropsy when this issue was caused by a bacterial infection, provided it was caught early -- which goes to show you that it WORKS. No guarantees with this swim bladder problem, as we have no way of knowing what's actually causing it, but it's certainly worth a try. It will get where it's needed and act against any internal bacterial infections if they are there. I couldn't tell you the dosage to use though, as I believe medications intended for human treatment are much more concentrated, having less fillers. \\Steve// or Lenny may be able to help you there. I would give the Epsom Salt a try first. though. Even after treating with the antibiotic, if there is no improvement you need to realize that swim bladder issues are not often resolved - having many causes - so don't expect miracles. As for his repeated attempts in reaching the surface, with the appearance of his picking at it when he gets there, this is all in his attempts to right himself in reorienting him to his normal horizontally bouyed swimming position. He may also be attempting to obtain atmospheric air to help fill his swim bladder at this same time, much as a fry's first trip to the surface is needed for this upon free-swimming. Ray</HTML>

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 45320	From: sevenspringss@wmconnect.com	Date: 12/27/2009
Subject: Re: Should I put Nathaniel out of his misery?

How old is Nathaniel? He may be too old to bring back from the brink. "Fuzz" would not be indicative of Columnaris as that disease manifests itself as a thin whitish (or grayish) coating. Fortunately, this same medication (Nitrofurazone) addresses Fungus too; glad to hear he's rid of it. A bent body is often signs of more severe malnutrition, which would support what you're saying about his not eating -- but I don't know how long he's be going without food. Unless his appetite improves, you may have no other alternative than to euthanize him. I doubt he would survive treatment again for possible internal issues that could (or could not) be the cause of his poor appetite, as it doesn't appear he has enough time. If you feel he's not yet that far gone, you could try Kanamycin. Ray</HTML>

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 45321	From: Noura	Date: 12/28/2009
Subject: Re: Dancing Tetra

A new note about my Tetra, his scales are raised now. Noura ----- Original Message ----- From: noura_taweel To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Monday, December 28, 2009 12:25 AM Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Dancing Tetra Hi Ray, and thank you for your help. The antibiotic I used was (Lincomycin) capsules made for human use, for 6 days, as I had it in hand and had no fish medication that targets internal infections. Don't ask me how did I determine the correct dose, I didn't, all I did was emptying half of the capsule in the 10 Gallon tank after solving it in water well. I can obtain either Malachite Green liquid (sp?), or Naladixic Acid (capsules made for humans), or Minocycline (Capsules of 50 or 100 mg for humans). As for the Tetra's appetite before, I can't determine that, I know the Tetras were eating, but couldn't observe if a certain one was, as they all looked alike and there was no sign of illness in all the community tank whatsoever. While waiting for further recommendations, I'll empty some of the Hospital tank's water. I can see him now trying really hard to reach up, but there's no food at the surface now, and when he does succeed to reach the surface, he just picks at it like a labyrinth fish. It makes me wonder why is he so determined about reaching the surface! Noura T. --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, sevenspringss@... wrote: > > > > Hi Noura, Sorry to hear that your serpae Tetra is having problems. From > your description, it sounds like this fish has a swim bladder issue. > Unfortunately, this disorder can have many causes, from blocked intestines, to > viral or bacterial infections. Noticed you've treated with salt and > antibiotics, however you don't state which antibiotic you used. Not all antibiotics > are the same and the majority of them are not that readily absorbed internally > where it's needed in this case. I realize you have limited access to many > medications, and I believe I may have recommended a few to you just > recently, which you can't obtain. Try locating anything containing Kanamycin > Sulfate, Minocycline or Naladixic Acid for starters and if you can't locate any of > these, let me know just which medications you can find. > > Before we go any further though, could you tell us if this fish had a good > appetite before this condition started? A poor appetite or not eating at > all could indicate an intestinal blockage. This can often be relieved with > the use of Epsom Salt, 1 Tablespoon per 5 U.S. gallons (18.925 liter). Yes, > you could try lowering the water level. As you do suspect, this "tail > walking" IS using up energy at a faster pace. If this infection can be arrested > (and if it is an infection), a good appetite can often supply enough > nutrition to allow the air bladder to function normally once again. A fish the size > of this Tetra can go without eating for about two weeks before you start > seeing a sunken belly, although at the faster pace he's using up energy, this > time frame would be shortened. </HTML> > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 45322	From: sevenspringss@wmconnect.com	Date: 12/28/2009
Subject: Re: Dancing Tetra

Noura, Raised scales are an indication of Dropsy. The Naladixic Acid has a good chance of curing that since it's being caught early. This is another malady though, which doesn't always respond to treatments and now on top of the swim bladder problem, there just doesn't seem to be as much hope. Always worth trying though, since you have a medication proven to be effective here, even if it's not as promising. Ray</HTML>

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 45323	From: William M	Date: 12/28/2009
Subject: Re: Should I put Nathaniel out of his misery?

For his appetite, I would soak some of his food in fresh squeezed garlic juice. This might help, it will not hurt and it is known to get rid of internal parasites and increase appetite. Good luck. --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, sevenspringss@... wrote: > > > > How old is Nathaniel? He may be too old to bring back from the brink. > "Fuzz" would not be indicative of Columnaris as that disease manifests itself > as a thin whitish (or grayish) coating. Fortunately, this same medication > (Nitrofurazone) addresses Fungus too; glad to hear he's rid of it. A bent > body is often signs of more severe malnutrition, which would support what > you're saying about his not eating -- but I don't know how long he's be going > without food. Unless his appetite improves, you may have no other alternative > than to euthanize him. I doubt he would survive treatment again for > possible internal issues that could (or could not) be the cause of his poor > appetite, as it doesn't appear he has enough time. If you feel he's not yet that > far gone, you could try Kanamycin. Ray</HTML> >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 45324	From: William M	Date: 12/28/2009
Subject: Re: Dancing Tetra

If you use the antibiotic, make sure to use it in a quarantine tank or you might kill off all of the good bacteria (the cycling type)) and then you would have to recycle the tank with all of the fish in there. This would stress the fish even more and you might loose the healthier ones. --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, sevenspringss@... wrote: > > > > Noura, Raised scales are an indication of Dropsy. The Naladixic Acid has > a good chance of curing that since it's being caught early. This is another > malady though, which doesn't always respond to treatments and now on top of > the swim bladder problem, there just doesn't seem to be as much hope. > Always worth trying though, since you have a medication proven to be effective > here, even if it's not as promising. Ray</HTML> >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 45325	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 12/28/2009
Subject: Accidentally did a large water change

Okay I had my hubby turn off the water on the python hose this weekend while I was doing PWC's, but I forgot to check and see if the hose was out of the water to stop the vacuum, and when I remembered to look there was only about 25% of the water left in the tank *sigh*. I quickly stopped the syphon so it wouldn't keep draining and then I slowly trickled the water back in at the same temp, turned off all the filters first and the heater just in case, I refilled very slowly so as to hopefully not stress out the fish too much, and made sure to stop after about halfway full and waited over 30 minutes before I started trickling the water back in. I know it's bad to do such a large water change all at once and honestly would never have done it on purpose. I'm wondering what I should watch for in my fish to see if this large water change stressed them out? This all happened yesterday evening and so far I haven't lost any fish, am I out of the danger zone? Thankfully earlier yesterday I had already done a PWC of 20% so the tank water was already similar to my tap water pH, so there shouldn't have been a pH drop/rise. So far all fish/shrimp/snails are very active and don't appear to be acting strangely so far. Amber

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 45326	From: Alex Mejia	Date: 12/28/2009
Subject: PWC

What is the best time to do a pwc? Wht is an acceptable temperature difference between tank and tap water? Semper Fi Please forgive any spelling errors. Sent on the Sprint® Now Network from my BlackBerry®

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 45327	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 12/28/2009
Subject: Re: PWC

Any time that the fish have been up for a while but NOT right before lights out. For a 25% PWC, you would want the replacement water to be within 4 degrees F of the tank so that it does not change the water temperature by more than 1 degree F. If you have to do a larger % water change, which I do not recommend, then you would need to have the temperatures matching even more closely. All that said, when I use my Python to refill my tanks, directly from the cold tap water faucet, since I cannot match temperatures, if the incoming water is a LOT colder than the tank (it's usually not down here in N'Awlins), then I'll refill the tank slowly so that the tank's heater kicks on and warms up the tank as the colder water is slowly flowing into the tank. It might take me an hour to refill my big tank this way so I just wedge the Python tube to the frame of the tank and do other things. Just don't let yourself get too distracted. LOL I have my big tank right next to my computer but I have come close to overtopping and had to make a mad dash to the bathroom to turn the water off. Haven't had any spills yet... knock on wood! Also, if doing it this way or even if filling more quickly with a Python, make sure the water is waterfalling out of the Python tube so that it's splashing into the tank instead of flowing directly into the tank under water. This splashing helps outgas any higher CO2 levels (or other gases) that might be in the tap water. Add the proper dose of dechlor product, to cover the amount of replacement water, directly to the tank prior to starting the refill process. If using buckets, which will be refilling the tank at a faster rate than using a Python, then you would need to water parameters to match even closer... not just the temperature but the pH, GH and KH also. When refilling more slowly, then there is a bigger margin for error as the water parameters of the tank would be slowly changing, giving the fish more time to acclimate to the changes. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Alex Mejia Sent: Monday, December 28, 2009 5:31 PM To: Aquatic Life Group Subject: [AquaticLife] PWC What is the best time to do a pwc? Wht is an acceptable temperature difference between tank and tap water? Semper Fi Please forgive any spelling errors. Sent on the SprintR Now Network from my BlackBerryR

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 45328	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 12/28/2009
Subject: Re: Accidentally did a large water change

Hopefully, you're OK but pH, temperature and osmotic shock issues *can* take several days to develop. Read my previous reply in the water change thread. If you would use my refill method where the Python tube is NOT in the tank's water when refilling, and instead is watefalling into the tank during the refill process, this accident that you had could not happen. I'm still curious though... if you turned off the water supply, how was the water being siphoned back out of the tank? Closing the cold water valve should have not allowed any backflow back into the cold water lines of your home and if you had the *knob* type thing on the bottom of the Python's faucet siphon closed so it was in the refill position, water should not have been flowing out of the bottom of it either... or did you not have it closed all the way or maybe some debris was trapped in the O-ring allowing it to leak? When you started the refill process, this leak should have been obvious but maybe not. In either case, DO NOT put the Python tube down into your water during the refill process. Instead, allow the water to trickle/flow out of the tube and waterfall down into the tank for the reasons stated in my reply in that other thread a few minutes ago.. and also now for this reason also. This is the first time I've ever seen this issue raised in any of the forums that I've followed over the years. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Amber Berglund Sent: Monday, December 28, 2009 4:46 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Accidentally did a large water change Okay I had my hubby turn off the water on the python hose this weekend while I was doing PWC's, but I forgot to check and see if the hose was out of the water to stop the vacuum, and when I remembered to look there was only about 25% of the water left in the tank *sigh*. I quickly stopped the syphon so it wouldn't keep draining and then I slowly trickled the water back in at the same temp, turned off all the filters first and the heater just in case, I refilled very slowly so as to hopefully not stress out the fish too much, and made sure to stop after about halfway full and waited over 30 minutes before I started trickling the water back in. I know it's bad to do such a large water change all at once and honestly would never have done it on purpose. I'm wondering what I should watch for in my fish to see if this large water change stressed them out? This all happened yesterday evening and so far I haven't lost any fish, am I out of the danger zone? Thankfully earlier yesterday I had already done a PWC of 20% so the tank water was already similar to my tap water pH, so there shouldn't have been a pH drop/rise. So far all fish/shrimp/snails are very active and don't appear to be acting strangely so far. Amber

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 45329	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 12/28/2009
Subject: Re: Accidentally did a large water change

Amber, If the pH of the tap water and your tank are close, and you had low nitrates, you are probably going to be OK, unless you had outrageous levels of DOCs. Look at this tank, right now, as a quarantine tank, with the fish being segregated from the main population (make believe, remember?) and simply watch for changes in behavior and appetite. Also watch for external signs of disease and/or parasites. \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Amber Berglund Sent: Monday, December 28, 2009 5:46 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Accidentally did a large water change Okay I had my hubby turn off the water on the python hose this weekend while I was doing PWC's, but I forgot to check and see if the hose was out of the water to stop the vacuum, and when I remembered to look there was only about 25% of the water left in the tank *sigh*. I quickly stopped the syphon so it wouldn't keep draining and then I slowly trickled the water back in at the same temp, turned off all the filters first and the heater just in case, I refilled very slowly so as to hopefully not stress out the fish too much, and made sure to stop after about halfway full and waited over 30 minutes before I started trickling the water back in. I know it's bad to do such a large water change all at once and honestly would never have done it on purpose. I'm wondering what I should watch for in my fish to see if this large water change stressed them out? This all happened yesterday evening and so far I haven't lost any fish, am I out of the danger zone? Thankfully earlier yesterday I had already done a PWC of 20% so the tank water was already similar to my tap water pH, so there shouldn't have been a pH drop/rise. So far all fish/shrimp/snails are very active and don't appear to be acting strangely so far. Amber

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 45330	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 12/28/2009
Subject: Re: Accidentally did a large water change

It wasn't in the refill position, it was still in the suction mode, with the water turned off. Normally I start to refill right away afterwards so this isn't a big problem for me, but I got distracted cleaning the filter out and was in another room at the time. I don't put the python tube into the water when I refill I let it splash into the water like you suggest. Amber Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > > Hopefully, you're OK but pH, temperature and osmotic shock issues > *can* take > several days to develop. > > Read my previous reply in the water change thread. If you would use my > refill method where the Python tube is NOT in the tank's water when > refilling, and instead is watefalling into the tank during the refill > process, this accident that you had could not happen. > > I'm still curious though... if you turned off the water supply, how > was the > water being siphoned back out of the tank? Closing the cold water valve > should have not allowed any backflow back into the cold water lines of > your > home and if you had the *knob* type thing on the bottom of the Python's > faucet siphon closed so it was in the refill position, water should > not have > been flowing out of the bottom of it either... or did you not have it > closed > all the way or maybe some debris was trapped in the O-ring allowing it to > leak? When you started the refill process, this leak should have been > obvious but maybe not. In either case, DO NOT put the Python tube down > into > your water during the refill process. Instead, allow the water to > trickle/flow out of the tube and waterfall down into the tank for the > reasons stated in my reply in that other thread a few minutes ago.. > and also > now for this reason also. > > This is the first time I've ever seen this issue raised in any of the > forums > that I've followed over the years. > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right > side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On > Behalf Of Amber Berglund > Sent: Monday, December 28, 2009 4:46 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Subject: [AquaticLife] Accidentally did a large water change > > Okay I had my hubby turn off the water on the python hose this weekend > while > I was doing PWC's, but I forgot to check and see if the hose was out > of the > water to stop the vacuum, and when I remembered to look there was only > about > 25% of the water left in the tank *sigh*. I quickly stopped the syphon > so it > wouldn't keep draining and then I slowly trickled the water back in at the > same temp, turned off all the filters first and the heater just in case, I > refilled very slowly so as to hopefully not stress out the fish too much, > and made sure to stop after about halfway full and waited over 30 minutes > before I started trickling the water back in. I know it's bad to do such a > large water change all at once and honestly would never have done it on > purpose. > I'm wondering what I should watch for in my fish to see if this large > water > change stressed them out? This all happened yesterday evening and so far I > haven't lost any fish, am I out of the danger zone? > Thankfully earlier yesterday I had already done a PWC of 20% so the tank > water was already similar to my tap water pH, so there shouldn't have > been a > pH drop/rise. > So far all fish/shrimp/snails are very active and don't appear to be > acting > strangely so far. > > Amber > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 45331	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 12/28/2009
Subject: Re: Accidentally did a large water change

I do water changes usually every few days on this tank as it's a bit overstocked (darn guppies and mystery snails) at the moment. I was slowly moving guppy's downstairs to the 125 gallon but I will put that on hold for now until I make sure the fish are healthy still. I'll just pretend it's a large quarantine tank for now like you said ;) LOL. So I had already done 2 water changes last week and a filter cleaning before this "incident" happened, so my nitrates should have been fairly low and the pH in my tank is very close to my tapwater pH right out of the tap so the pH shouldn't have shifted much at all, and the DOC's shouldn't have been very bad if I had already done a filter cleaning and 2 PWC's. I'm hoping everything will be okay, thankfully there aren't any expensive fish in the tank ;) LOL. Everything seems very active today still, eating just like they normally do (like I haven't fed them in days, too bad for them I actually keep track LOL). Amber Steve Szabo wrote: > > Amber, > > If the pH of the tap water and your tank are close, and you had low > nitrates, you are probably going to be OK, unless you had outrageous > levels > of DOCs. Look at this tank, right now, as a quarantine tank, with the fish > being segregated from the main population (make believe, remember?) and > simply watch for changes in behavior and appetite. Also watch for external > signs of disease and/or parasites. > > \\Steve// > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On > Behalf Of Amber Berglund > Sent: Monday, December 28, 2009 5:46 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Subject: [AquaticLife] Accidentally did a large water change > > Okay I had my hubby turn off the water on the python hose this weekend > while I was doing PWC's, but I forgot to check and see if the hose was > out of the water to stop the vacuum, and when I remembered to look there > was only about 25% of the water left in the tank *sigh*. I quickly > stopped the syphon so it wouldn't keep draining and then I slowly > trickled the water back in at the same temp, turned off all the filters > first and the heater just in case, I refilled very slowly so as to > hopefully not stress out the fish too much, and made sure to stop after > about halfway full and waited over 30 minutes before I started trickling > the water back in. I know it's bad to do such a large water change all > at once and honestly would never have done it on purpose. > I'm wondering what I should watch for in my fish to see if this large > water change stressed them out? This all happened yesterday evening and > so far I haven't lost any fish, am I out of the danger zone? > Thankfully earlier yesterday I had already done a PWC of 20% so the tank > water was already similar to my tap water pH, so there shouldn't have > been a pH drop/rise. > So far all fish/shrimp/snails are very active and don't appear to be > acting strangely so far. > > Amber > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 45332	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 12/28/2009
Subject: Re: Accidentally did a large water change

Ahhhh.. OK. I was under the impression that you had refilled the tank and then it started siphoning back out. So it was after you finished vacuuming the gravel, you just had the siphon tube in the water removing additional water... and then you had hubby turn off the faucet, which would stop the Python's power assisted siphoning but the normal siphon action would continue, as you saw. The only solution for this is when you told hubby to turn off the water, he should have closed the siphon valve on the Python, either the faucet valve or the little thumb valve at the tank end. Another thing I should warn you and other Python users (or during simple siphoning)... is NEVER leave your Python/siphon unattended during the siphon process. It's very easy for a fish to swim into the siphon tube and then get sucked up against the small opening at the top of the tube.... or if the fish is small enough, get sucked all the way into the hose. Of course, with a simple siphon device, the small fish might just end up in a bucket and be saved but with the Python, it's almost certain death. -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Amber Berglund Sent: Monday, December 28, 2009 10:50 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Accidentally did a large water change It wasn't in the refill position, it was still in the suction mode, with the water turned off. Normally I start to refill right away afterwards so this isn't a big problem for me, but I got distracted cleaning the filter out and was in another room at the time. I don't put the python tube into the water when I refill I let it splash into the water like you suggest. Amber Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > > Hopefully, you're OK but pH, temperature and osmotic shock issues > *can* take > several days to develop. > > Read my previous reply in the water change thread. If you would use my > refill method where the Python tube is NOT in the tank's water when > refilling, and instead is watefalling into the tank during the refill > process, this accident that you had could not happen. > > I'm still curious though... if you turned off the water supply, how > was the water being siphoned back out of the tank? Closing the cold > water valve should have not allowed any backflow back into the cold > water lines of your home and if you had the *knob* type thing on the > bottom of the Python's faucet siphon closed so it was in the refill > position, water should not have been flowing out of the bottom of it > either... or did you not have it closed all the way or maybe some > debris was trapped in the O-ring allowing it to leak? When you started > the refill process, this leak should have been obvious but maybe not. > In either case, DO NOT put the Python tube down into your water during > the refill process. Instead, allow the water to trickle/flow out of > the tube and waterfall down into the tank for the reasons stated in my > reply in that other thread a few minutes ago.. > and also > now for this reason also. > > This is the first time I've ever seen this issue raised in any of the > forums that I've followed over the years. > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> (Links to any articles referenced in > above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels > and also under Archives by Year, Month) > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On Behalf Of Amber Berglund > Sent: Monday, December 28, 2009 4:46 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Subject: [AquaticLife] Accidentally did a large water change > > Okay I had my hubby turn off the water on the python hose this weekend > while I was doing PWC's, but I forgot to check and see if the hose was > out of the water to stop the vacuum, and when I remembered to look > there was only about 25% of the water left in the tank *sigh*. I > quickly stopped the syphon so it wouldn't keep draining and then I > slowly trickled the water back in at the same temp, turned off all the > filters first and the heater just in case, I refilled very slowly so > as to hopefully not stress out the fish too much, and made sure to > stop after about halfway full and waited over 30 minutes before I > started trickling the water back in. I know it's bad to do such a > large water change all at once and honestly would never have done it > on purpose. > I'm wondering what I should watch for in my fish to see if this large > water change stressed them out? This all happened yesterday evening > and so far I haven't lost any fish, am I out of the danger zone? > Thankfully earlier yesterday I had already done a PWC of 20% so the > tank water was already similar to my tap water pH, so there shouldn't > have been a pH drop/rise. > So far all fish/shrimp/snails are very active and don't appear to be > acting strangely so far. > > Amber

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 45333	From: sevenspringss@wmconnect.com	Date: 12/29/2009
Subject: Re: PWC

While I note that this syphoning out of the aquarium's water was done so in the Python's water removal/drainage mode, I see Lenny's recommendation of allowing the inflowing water to "waterfall" from the hose to allow for as much out-gasing as possible, an excellent suggestion. This is especially important in more northerly latitudes where the Winter season will see colder water -- under pressure of pipes -- containing more dissolved gases. Even those hobbyists who use their own private well water, not under any extreme pressures, will benefit in out-gasing these excesses found in colder water this time of year. As an alternative, and as a method I use when filling my tanks, I clamp the hose near the top frame of the tank as Lenny does, but I position it facing one end of the tank, about a half foot away from the end. Then, instead of the water creating a current that the fish are now finding themselves swimming against (sometimes rather strongly) and creating a crater in the gravel, it cascades down the side with some splashing without this current occurring in the water column. But this is only adviseable when the water is not holding as much dissolved gases, as it does not allow for as much water aggitation. While it is generally recommended not to change much more than 25% (to 33%) of the water at any one time, this really depends on how close the hobbyist keeps their aquarium's water parameters to that of their source water. If the aquarium's water parameters closely match the parameters of the tap or source water, there's little reason one cannot change as much water as one feels would best benefit their fish under these circumstances, even though beyond a certain point there may be no further benefit. In this way though, nitrates will be kept at a lower level and other parameters that cannot be ordinarily tested for -- such as growth-inhibiting hormones and DOC's (dissolved organic compounds/carbons) will be kept at a very minimum -- and this is the main idea of changing water. If the hobbyist is changing water once a week, and if that water is already containing excesses of nitrates and other impurities, it is conceded that this water may be sufficiently different in parameters than the tap water not to permit larger water changes. While it is the purpose to get rid of these impurities, ideally, they should never be allowed to build up to such different proportions by the end of the week, in the first place. If and when it becomes necessary, or just to keep one's aquarium parameters as close to those as their tap water, PWC's can be performed more frequently and/or done in larger quantities, provided the parameters closely match -- which ideally -- they should, if the hobbyist is striving to keep their water as free from contaminants as possible at ALL times (not just at the end of the week at water changing time). This may be viewed by some as "overkill" in PWCing, and although such measures may be deemed as unnecessary as long as we don't allow the pollutants to get too far out of hand (or too different from our tap water), the closer one maintains their tank to that of their tap water, the less contaminated the aquarium water will constantly remain -- and the less stress-free that any quantities of PWC's will be. I regularly change between 85% to 90% of my aquariums' water and while it may be questioned "why," when there may not be "enough" nitrates, DOC's or other contaminents yet in the water, I don't want to wait until the water changes become "needed" as a result of these build-ups. My fish don't experience any stress as the incoming water is not very much different at all from that which is being removed. Everyone's situation is different though, when considering that their are some Lake fishes that do not appreciate larger water changes -- and while they don't like changes in their water parameters, such methods as described will ensure more of a constant -- with the removal of the nitrates that these same fishes cannot tolerate. I can't advise large extremes of water changing for everybody, as some hobbyists may have higher water fees than others, but for more stress-free circumstances for the fish at PWCing time, CONSISTENTLY larger or MORE FREQUENT PWC's will see to this as well as better water conditions at ALL times. The hobbyist still needs to keep checks on their nitrate levels -- even to the point of not allowing too much of their removal if one is growing plants -- in which case, at least a minimal amount should be retained in the water. Then, there's the issue that some hobbyists receive much higher quantities of chloramines in their water than others, and even though we have water conditioners to take care of this, any additives should always be kept to a minimum whenever possible -- so larger PWC's may not be possible for all. Ray </HTML>

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 45334	From: Noura	Date: 12/29/2009
Subject: Re: Dancing Tetra

He's already been in a cycled hospital tank for two weeks, William. Noura ----- Original Message ----- From: William M To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Monday, December 28, 2009 7:03 PM Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Dancing Tetra If you use the antibiotic, make sure to use it in a quarantine tank or you might kill off all of the good bacteria (the cycling type)) and then you would have to recycle the tank with all of the fish in there. This would stress the fish even more and you might loose the healthier ones. --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, sevenspringss@... wrote: > > > > Noura, Raised scales are an indication of Dropsy. The Naladixic Acid has > a good chance of curing that since it's being caught early. This is another > malady though, which doesn't always respond to treatments and now on top of > the swim bladder problem, there just doesn't seem to be as much hope. > Always worth trying though, since you have a medication proven to be effective > here, even if it's not as promising. Ray</HTML> > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 45335	From: Noura	Date: 12/29/2009
Subject: Re: Plant Maintenance

I just uploaded the picture of my Anubias in the photo section. I wonder if I could cut all these long blackish roots to a lingth of half and inch without harming the plant. And if I wanted to cut the stem in half, can I attach the new plant to a rock? or does it have to be a driftwood, the websites I checked didn't say much about this. Here's the link to the photo, you should be able to see it soon after it's approved: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife/photos/album/1806651824/pic/list Noura ----- Original Message ----- From: Noura To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Monday, December 28, 2009 3:30 AM Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Plant Maintenance After looking at all these pictures, I'm almost sure that my plant is Anubias nana, but I'm also less proud that it survived for more than a year in my aquarium, as I read that it's a VERY hardy plant, known to be the "plastic plant that grows!". Anyway, I'm trying to upload a picture, I'll post the link when I succeed. Noura ----- Original Message ----- From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Monday, December 28, 2009 1:17 AM Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Plant Maintenance Pictures do not come through this group's postings... for security reasons. You would have to upload the picture to your own photo album (like Flickr, Webshots, PhotoBucket, etc.) or use the Group's photo's section to create your own album and upload it there. Then give us a link to the photo. Anubias is the Genus for which there are MANY species... many of which may prefer differing water parameters. If you can reach these two sites... http://www.aquaticplantcentral.com/forumapc/plantfinder/index.php http://www.plantgeek.net/plantguide_asearch.php ... you can put Anubias in the Genus search field and find the profiles for most of the commonly available species in the Anubias Genus. It would be best for you to be able to look at the photos on these profiles until you find the one that matches your plant so you will then know the exact species and know more about the care of the plant. For me, the APC link only found five profiles in their database, whereas the PG link found two pages of profiles, many of which were variants of A. barteri. Let me know if you cannot get to either of the above sites or use their databases. Here's a forum thread on APC with some suggestions of plants that do better in hard water and higher pH. http://www.aquaticplantcentral.com/forumapc/general-aquarium-plants-discussi ons/63863-high-ph-hard-water-plants.html I should probably sign in over there and answer the last question in the thread since nobody else seemed to know the answer... which is, there is probably a higher CO2 level in the tap water which outgases once the water is out of the tap... which is why the pH goes up from 7.4 to 8.2 from the initial tap water test to once the water is in the tank. If that poster had read my blog article about "Find Your Tap Water Baseline...", they would know the answer to all of their final unanswered questions! ;-) Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Noura Sent: Sunday, December 27, 2009 12:34 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Plant Maintenance Hi again, Attached to this email you can see my live plant, which I think is Anubias. As you can see there's a lot of roots and the stem is much longer than when I purchased the plant. The stem is attached to the driftwood piece with a fishing string, and produces a new leaf every 3-4 weeks. I got it about a year ago. How should I maintain this plant, I would like to cut some roots off, is it okey? In case you want to know, my water is alkaline and very hard: Nitrite 0 Nitrates 50 GH 10 KH 16 pH 7.7 - 8.2 (it varies from month to month) Noura T. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 45336	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 12/29/2009
Subject: Re: Accidentally did a large water change

Ahh I solved the problem of accidental sucking up of fish already, I have the end of my python tube covered in mesh like my intake filters, which also means I have to clean it off while I'm sucking up ickies out of the gravel as it eventually clogs up the mesh, but I'd rather not suck up any fry or shrimp on accident. Also the thumb valve on the pythons is faulty IMO, mine broke apart and no longer works so I had to connect the hoses without the thumb valve, which means a little more work when I do PWC's but it still works and that's the important part. Amber Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > > Ahhhh.. OK. I was under the impression that you had refilled the tank and > then it started siphoning back out. > > So it was after you finished vacuuming the gravel, you just had the siphon > tube in the water removing additional water... and then you had hubby turn > off the faucet, which would stop the Python's power assisted siphoning but > the normal siphon action would continue, as you saw. The only solution for > this is when you told hubby to turn off the water, he should have > closed the > siphon valve on the Python, either the faucet valve or the little thumb > valve at the tank end. > > Another thing I should warn you and other Python users (or during simple > siphoning)... is NEVER leave your Python/siphon unattended during the > siphon > process. It's very easy for a fish to swim into the siphon tube and then > get sucked up against the small opening at the top of the tube.... or > if the > fish is small enough, get sucked all the way into the hose. Of course, > with > a simple siphon device, the small fish might just end up in a bucket > and be > saved but with the Python, it's almost certain death. > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On > Behalf Of Amber Berglund > Sent: Monday, December 28, 2009 10:50 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Accidentally did a large water change > > It wasn't in the refill position, it was still in the suction mode, > with the > water turned off. Normally I start to refill right away afterwards so this > isn't a big problem for me, but I got distracted cleaning the filter > out and > was in another room at the time. I don't put the python tube into the > water > when I refill I let it splash into the water like you suggest. > > Amber > > Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > > > > Hopefully, you're OK but pH, temperature and osmotic shock issues > > *can* take > > several days to develop. > > > > Read my previous reply in the water change thread. If you would use my > > refill method where the Python tube is NOT in the tank's water when > > refilling, and instead is watefalling into the tank during the refill > > process, this accident that you had could not happen. > > > > I'm still curious though... if you turned off the water supply, how > > was the water being siphoned back out of the tank? Closing the cold > > water valve should have not allowed any backflow back into the cold > > water lines of your home and if you had the *knob* type thing on the > > bottom of the Python's faucet siphon closed so it was in the refill > > position, water should not have been flowing out of the bottom of it > > either... or did you not have it closed all the way or maybe some > > debris was trapped in the O-ring allowing it to leak? When you started > > the refill process, this leak should have been obvious but maybe not. > > In either case, DO NOT put the Python tube down into your water during > > the refill process. Instead, allow the water to trickle/flow out of > > the tube and waterfall down into the tank for the reasons stated in my > > reply in that other thread a few minutes ago.. > > and also > > now for this reason also. > > > > This is the first time I've ever seen this issue raised in any of the > > forums that I've followed over the years. > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>> > (Links to any articles referenced in > > above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels > > and also under Archives by Year, Month) > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On Behalf Of Amber Berglund > > Sent: Monday, December 28, 2009 4:46 PM > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > Subject: [AquaticLife] Accidentally did a large water change > > > > Okay I had my hubby turn off the water on the python hose this weekend > > while I was doing PWC's, but I forgot to check and see if the hose was > > out of the water to stop the vacuum, and when I remembered to look > > there was only about 25% of the water left in the tank *sigh*. I > > quickly stopped the syphon so it wouldn't keep draining and then I > > slowly trickled the water back in at the same temp, turned off all the > > filters first and the heater just in case, I refilled very slowly so > > as to hopefully not stress out the fish too much, and made sure to > > stop after about halfway full and waited over 30 minutes before I > > started trickling the water back in. I know it's bad to do such a > > large water change all at once and honestly would never have done it > > on purpose. > > I'm wondering what I should watch for in my fish to see if this large > > water change stressed them out? This all happened yesterday evening > > and so far I haven't lost any fish, am I out of the danger zone? > > Thankfully earlier yesterday I had already done a PWC of 20% so the > > tank water was already similar to my tap water pH, so there shouldn't > > have been a pH drop/rise. > > So far all fish/shrimp/snails are very active and don't appear to be > > acting strangely so far. > > > > Amber > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 45337	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 12/29/2009
Subject: Re: Plant Maintenance

If you cut the "stem" (it's called a rhizome on this plant), then just split it in half with the roots split up as well you can reattach the new "baby" plant to something else and it will continue to grow. You can attach it to almost anything, rocks, driftwood, you can even partially bury it in gravel (just leave the main top part of the roots showing because if you cover it all up it will start to die). I'm not sure about cutting all the roots, and I wouldn't recommend it myself, if you're going to trim up the roots I would just trim a little at a time and see if it affects the plant first, I'd hate to have you kill the plant by trimming off too many roots. Amber Noura wrote: > > I just uploaded the picture of my Anubias in the photo section. I > wonder if I could cut all these long blackish roots to a lingth of > half and inch without harming the plant. > And if I wanted to cut the stem in half, can I attach the new plant to > a rock? or does it have to be a driftwood, the websites I checked > didn't say much about this. > > Here's the link to the photo, you should be able to see it soon after > it's approved: > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife/photos/album/1806651824/pic/list > <http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife/photos/album/1806651824/pic/list> > > Noura > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Noura > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Sent: Monday, December 28, 2009 3:30 AM > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Plant Maintenance > > After looking at all these pictures, I'm almost sure that my plant is > Anubias nana, but I'm also less proud that it survived for more than a > year in my aquarium, as I read that it's a VERY hardy plant, known to > be the "plastic plant that grows!". > Anyway, I'm trying to upload a picture, I'll post the link when I succeed. > > Noura > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Sent: Monday, December 28, 2009 1:17 AM > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Plant Maintenance > > Pictures do not come through this group's postings... for security > reasons. > You would have to upload the picture to your own photo album (like Flickr, > Webshots, PhotoBucket, etc.) or use the Group's photo's section to create > your own album and upload it there. Then give us a link to the photo. > > Anubias is the Genus for which there are MANY species... many of which may > prefer differing water parameters. > > If you can reach these two sites... > > http://www.aquaticplantcentral.com/forumapc/plantfinder/index.php > <http://www.aquaticplantcentral.com/forumapc/plantfinder/index.php> > > http://www.plantgeek.net/plantguide_asearch.php > <http://www.plantgeek.net/plantguide_asearch.php> > > ... you can put Anubias in the Genus search field and find the > profiles for > most of the commonly available species in the Anubias Genus. It would be > best for you to be able to look at the photos on these profiles until you > find the one that matches your plant so you will then know the exact > species > and know more about the care of the plant. > > For me, the APC link only found five profiles in their database, > whereas the > PG link found two pages of profiles, many of which were variants of A. > barteri. > > Let me know if you cannot get to either of the above sites or use their > databases. > > Here's a forum thread on APC with some suggestions of plants that do > better > in hard water and higher pH. > http://www.aquaticplantcentral.com/forumapc/general-aquarium-plants-discussi > <http://www.aquaticplantcentral.com/forumapc/general-aquarium-plants-discussi> > ons/63863-high-ph-hard-water-plants.html > > I should probably sign in over there and answer the last question in the > thread since nobody else seemed to know the answer... which is, there is > probably a higher CO2 level in the tap water which outgases once the water > is out of the tap... which is why the pH goes up from 7.4 to 8.2 from the > initial tap water test to once the water is in the tank. If that > poster had > read my blog article about "Find Your Tap Water Baseline...", they would > know the answer to all of their final unanswered questions! ;-) > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right > side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On > Behalf Of Noura > Sent: Sunday, December 27, 2009 12:34 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Subject: [AquaticLife] Plant Maintenance > > Hi again, > Attached to this email you can see my live plant, which I think is > Anubias. > As you can see there's a lot of roots and the stem is much longer than > when > I purchased the plant. The stem is attached to the driftwood piece with a > fishing string, and produces a new leaf every 3-4 weeks. I got it about a > year ago. > How should I maintain this plant, I would like to cut some roots off, > is it > okey? > > In case you want to know, my water is alkaline and very hard: > Nitrite 0 > Nitrates 50 > GH 10 > KH 16 > pH 7.7 - 8.2 (it varies from month to month) > > Noura T. > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 45338	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 12/29/2009
Subject: Re: Plant Maintenance

Every picture on this profile, http://www.plantgeek.net/plantguide_viewer.php?id=19, also shows it planted (in the pics that show the base of the plant... some show the flower). A Google of 'Anubias barteri var. nana on Driftwood' does show that lots of people do plant it on driftwood but to me, it seems like it would be better off planted in the substrate according to the instructions on the PG site above. This LiveAquaria.com AD shows it on driftwood, http://www.liveaquaria.com/product/prod_display.cfm?c=768+2384&pcatid=2384 or close-up, http://www.liveaquaria.com/product/detailed_image.cfm?pCatId=2384 but they took the pic at an angle to NOT show the roots. This *article* http://aqualandpetsplus.com/Plant,%20Anubias.htm shows some pictures with captions where the author says they did dramatically trim back the plant and roots prior to planting what was left onto some driftwood so maybe it will be OK if you trim the roots. Do a LOT more research though. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Noura Sent: Tuesday, December 29, 2009 7:33 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Plant Maintenance I just uploaded the picture of my Anubias in the photo section. I wonder if I could cut all these long blackish roots to a lingth of half and inch without harming the plant. And if I wanted to cut the stem in half, can I attach the new plant to a rock? or does it have to be a driftwood, the websites I checked didn't say much about this. Here's the link to the photo, you should be able to see it soon after it's approved: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife/photos/album/1806651824/pic/list Noura ----- Original Message ----- From: Noura To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Monday, December 28, 2009 3:30 AM Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Plant Maintenance After looking at all these pictures, I'm almost sure that my plant is Anubias nana, but I'm also less proud that it survived for more than a year in my aquarium, as I read that it's a VERY hardy plant, known to be the "plastic plant that grows!". Anyway, I'm trying to upload a picture, I'll post the link when I succeed. Noura ----- Original Message ----- From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Monday, December 28, 2009 1:17 AM Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Plant Maintenance Pictures do not come through this group's postings... for security reasons. You would have to upload the picture to your own photo album (like Flickr, Webshots, PhotoBucket, etc.) or use the Group's photo's section to create your own album and upload it there. Then give us a link to the photo. Anubias is the Genus for which there are MANY species... many of which may prefer differing water parameters. If you can reach these two sites... http://www.aquaticplantcentral.com/forumapc/plantfinder/index.php http://www.plantgeek.net/plantguide_asearch.php ... you can put Anubias in the Genus search field and find the profiles for most of the commonly available species in the Anubias Genus. It would be best for you to be able to look at the photos on these profiles until you find the one that matches your plant so you will then know the exact species and know more about the care of the plant. For me, the APC link only found five profiles in their database, whereas the PG link found two pages of profiles, many of which were variants of A. barteri. Let me know if you cannot get to either of the above sites or use their databases. Here's a forum thread on APC with some suggestions of plants that do better in hard water and higher pH. http://www.aquaticplantcentral.com/forumapc/general-aquarium-plants-discussi ons/63863-high-ph-hard-water-plants.html I should probably sign in over there and answer the last question in the thread since nobody else seemed to know the answer... which is, there is probably a higher CO2 level in the tap water which outgases once the water is out of the tap... which is why the pH goes up from 7.4 to 8.2 from the initial tap water test to once the water is in the tank. If that poster had read my blog article about "Find Your Tap Water Baseline...", they would know the answer to all of their final unanswered questions! ;-) Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Noura Sent: Sunday, December 27, 2009 12:34 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Plant Maintenance Hi again, Attached to this email you can see my live plant, which I think is Anubias. As you can see there's a lot of roots and the stem is much longer than when I purchased the plant. The stem is attached to the driftwood piece with a fishing string, and produces a new leaf every 3-4 weeks. I got it about a year ago. How should I maintain this plant, I would like to cut some roots off, is it okey? In case you want to know, my water is alkaline and very hard: Nitrite 0 Nitrates 50 GH 10 KH 16 pH 7.7 - 8.2 (it varies from month to month) Noura T.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 45339	From: Donna Ransome	Date: 12/29/2009
Subject: Re: Plant Maintenance

This is from Robert Paul, owner of Aqua Botanic and planted tank magazine columnist: Anubias roots will attach to nearby rocks or wood, but I prefer to plant it into the substrate to draw nutrients. The rhizome should be left uncovered to prevent it from rotting in the substrate. _____ From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Lenny V. aka GoldLenny Sent: Tuesday, December 29, 2009 10:47 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Plant Maintenance Every picture on this profile, http://www.plantgee <http://www.plantgeek.net/plantguide_viewer.php?id=19,> k.net/plantguide_viewer.php?id=19, also shows it planted (in the pics that show the base of the plant... some show the flower). A Google of 'Anubias barteri var. nana on Driftwood' does show that lots of people do plant it on driftwood but to me, it seems like it would be better off planted in the substrate according to the instructions on the PG site above. This LiveAquaria.com AD shows it on driftwood, http://www.liveaqua <http://www.liveaquaria.com/product/prod_display.cfm?c=768+2384&pcatid=2384> ria.com/product/prod_display.cfm?c=768+2384&pcatid=2384 or close-up, http://www.liveaqua <http://www.liveaquaria.com/product/detailed_image.cfm?pCatId=2384> ria.com/product/detailed_image.cfm?pCatId=2384 but they took the pic at an angle to NOT show the roots. This *article* http://aqualandpets <http://aqualandpetsplus.com/Plant,%20Anubias.htm> plus.com/Plant,%20Anubias.htm shows some pictures with captions where the author says they did dramatically trim back the plant and roots prior to planting what was left onto some driftwood so maybe it will be OK if you trim the roots. Do a LOT more research though. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Noura Sent: Tuesday, December 29, 2009 7:33 AM To: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Plant Maintenance I just uploaded the picture of my Anubias in the photo section. I wonder if I could cut all these long blackish roots to a lingth of half and inch without harming the plant. And if I wanted to cut the stem in half, can I attach the new plant to a rock? or does it have to be a driftwood, the websites I checked didn't say much about this. Here's the link to the photo, you should be able to see it soon after it's approved: http://groups. <http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife/photos/album/1806651824/pic/list> yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife/photos/album/1806651824/pic/list Noura ----- Original Message ----- From: Noura To: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com Sent: Monday, December 28, 2009 3:30 AM Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Plant Maintenance After looking at all these pictures, I'm almost sure that my plant is Anubias nana, but I'm also less proud that it survived for more than a year in my aquarium, as I read that it's a VERY hardy plant, known to be the "plastic plant that grows!". Anyway, I'm trying to upload a picture, I'll post the link when I succeed. Noura ----- Original Message ----- From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny To: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com Sent: Monday, December 28, 2009 1:17 AM Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Plant Maintenance Pictures do not come through this group's postings... for security reasons. You would have to upload the picture to your own photo album (like Flickr, Webshots, PhotoBucket, etc.) or use the Group's photo's section to create your own album and upload it there. Then give us a link to the photo. Anubias is the Genus for which there are MANY species... many of which may prefer differing water parameters. If you can reach these two sites... http://www.aquaticp <http://www.aquaticplantcentral.com/forumapc/plantfinder/index.php> lantcentral.com/forumapc/plantfinder/index.php http://www.plantgee <http://www.plantgeek.net/plantguide_asearch.php> k.net/plantguide_asearch.php ... you can put Anubias in the Genus search field and find the profiles for most of the commonly available species in the Anubias Genus. It would be best for you to be able to look at the photos on these profiles until you find the one that matches your plant so you will then know the exact species and know more about the care of the plant. For me, the APC link only found five profiles in their database, whereas the PG link found two pages of profiles, many of which were variants of A. barteri. Let me know if you cannot get to either of the above sites or use their databases. Here's a forum thread on APC with some suggestions of plants that do better in hard water and higher pH. http://www.aquaticp <http://www.aquaticplantcentral.com/forumapc/general-aquarium-plants-discuss i> lantcentral.com/forumapc/general-aquarium-plants-discussi ons/63863-high-ph-hard-water-plants.html I should probably sign in over there and answer the last question in the thread since nobody else seemed to know the answer... which is, there is probably a higher CO2 level in the tap water which outgases once the water is out of the tap... which is why the pH goes up from 7.4 to 8.2 from the initial tap water test to once the water is in the tank. If that poster had read my blog article about "Find Your Tap Water Baseline...", they would know the answer to all of their final unanswered questions! ;-) Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Noura Sent: Sunday, December 27, 2009 12:34 PM To: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Plant Maintenance Hi again, Attached to this email you can see my live plant, which I think is Anubias. As you can see there's a lot of roots and the stem is much longer than when I purchased the plant. The stem is attached to the driftwood piece with a fishing string, and produces a new leaf every 3-4 weeks. I got it about a year ago. How should I maintain this plant, I would like to cut some roots off, is it okey? In case you want to know, my water is alkaline and very hard: Nitrite 0 Nitrates 50 GH 10 KH 16 pH 7.7 - 8.2 (it varies from month to month) Noura T. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 45340	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 12/29/2009
Subject: Re: Accidentally did a large water change

Since the shut-off/throttle valve on the siphon end is broken (I've never had this issue after five years of using my Python), then when you shut off the water at the faucet, the Python's faucet valve would need to be changed to the refill mode to stop the siphoning. Show hubby how to do this so that next time he turns off the cold water for you, he can also close the siphon valve at the bottom of the Python's faucet valve. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Amber Berglund Sent: Tuesday, December 29, 2009 8:56 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Accidentally did a large water change Ahh I solved the problem of accidental sucking up of fish already, I have the end of my python tube covered in mesh like my intake filters, which also means I have to clean it off while I'm sucking up ickies out of the gravel as it eventually clogs up the mesh, but I'd rather not suck up any fry or shrimp on accident. Also the thumb valve on the pythons is faulty IMO, mine broke apart and no longer works so I had to connect the hoses without the thumb valve, which means a little more work when I do PWC's but it still works and that's the important part. Amber Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > > Ahhhh.. OK. I was under the impression that you had refilled the tank > and then it started siphoning back out. > > So it was after you finished vacuuming the gravel, you just had the > siphon tube in the water removing additional water... and then you had > hubby turn off the faucet, which would stop the Python's power > assisted siphoning but the normal siphon action would continue, as you > saw. The only solution for this is when you told hubby to turn off the > water, he should have closed the siphon valve on the Python, either > the faucet valve or the little thumb valve at the tank end. > > Another thing I should warn you and other Python users (or during > simple siphoning)... is NEVER leave your Python/siphon unattended > during the siphon process. It's very easy for a fish to swim into the > siphon tube and then get sucked up against the small opening at the > top of the tube.... or if the fish is small enough, get sucked all the > way into the hose. Of course, with a simple siphon device, the small > fish might just end up in a bucket and be saved but with the Python, > it's almost certain death. > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On Behalf Of Amber Berglund > Sent: Monday, December 28, 2009 10:50 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Accidentally did a large water change > > It wasn't in the refill position, it was still in the suction mode, > with the water turned off. Normally I start to refill right away > afterwards so this isn't a big problem for me, but I got distracted > cleaning the filter out and was in another room at the time. I don't > put the python tube into the water when I refill I let it splash into > the water like you suggest. > > Amber > > Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > > > > Hopefully, you're OK but pH, temperature and osmotic shock issues > > *can* take > > several days to develop. > > > > Read my previous reply in the water change thread. If you would use > > my refill method where the Python tube is NOT in the tank's water > > when refilling, and instead is watefalling into the tank during the > > refill process, this accident that you had could not happen. > > > > I'm still curious though... if you turned off the water supply, how > > was the water being siphoned back out of the tank? Closing the cold > > water valve should have not allowed any backflow back into the cold > > water lines of your home and if you had the *knob* type thing on the > > bottom of the Python's faucet siphon closed so it was in the refill > > position, water should not have been flowing out of the bottom of it > > either... or did you not have it closed all the way or maybe some > > debris was trapped in the O-ring allowing it to leak? When you > > started the refill process, this leak should have been obvious but maybe not. > > In either case, DO NOT put the Python tube down into your water > > during the refill process. Instead, allow the water to trickle/flow > > out of the tube and waterfall down into the tank for the reasons > > stated in my reply in that other thread a few minutes ago.. > > and also > > now for this reason also. > > > > This is the first time I've ever seen this issue raised in any of > > the forums that I've followed over the years. > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>> > (Links to any articles referenced in > > above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under > > Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On Behalf Of Amber Berglund > > Sent: Monday, December 28, 2009 4:46 PM > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > Subject: [AquaticLife] Accidentally did a large water change > > > > Okay I had my hubby turn off the water on the python hose this > > weekend while I was doing PWC's, but I forgot to check and see if > > the hose was out of the water to stop the vacuum, and when I > > remembered to look there was only about 25% of the water left in the > > tank *sigh*. I quickly stopped the syphon so it wouldn't keep > > draining and then I slowly trickled the water back in at the same > > temp, turned off all the filters first and the heater just in case, > > I refilled very slowly so as to hopefully not stress out the fish > > too much, and made sure to stop after about halfway full and waited > > over 30 minutes before I started trickling the water back in. I know > > it's bad to do such a large water change all at once and honestly > > would never have done it on purpose. > > I'm wondering what I should watch for in my fish to see if this > > large water change stressed them out? This all happened yesterday > > evening and so far I haven't lost any fish, am I out of the danger zone? > > Thankfully earlier yesterday I had already done a PWC of 20% so the > > tank water was already similar to my tap water pH, so there > > shouldn't have been a pH drop/rise. > > So far all fish/shrimp/snails are very active and don't appear to be > > acting strangely so far. > > > > Amber

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 45341	From: William M	Date: 12/29/2009
Subject: Re: Plant Maintenance

I would think that if you wanted to plant this plant in the gravel that you would leave as mu;ch rootstock as possible to act as an anchor for it. But remember to not bury the rhizome or it will not grow for you. If you put it on a rock or other solid surface, you can use some fine string to tie it to that. If it is cotton string it will rot away in time and hopefully the plants will have attached itself to the new surface. You could also use rubber bands and when the plant is attached, you can cut rubber band off. --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@...> wrote: > > Every picture on this profile, > http://www.plantgeek.net/plantguide_viewer.php?id=19, also shows it planted > (in the pics that show the base of the plant... some show the flower). > > A Google of 'Anubias barteri var. nana on Driftwood' does show that lots of > people do plant it on driftwood but to me, it seems like it would be better > off planted in the substrate according to the instructions on the PG site > above. > > This LiveAquaria.com AD shows it on driftwood, > http://www.liveaquaria.com/product/prod_display.cfm?c=768+2384&pcatid=2384 > or close-up, > http://www.liveaquaria.com/product/detailed_image.cfm?pCatId=2384 but they > took the pic at an angle to NOT show the roots. > > This *article* http://aqualandpetsplus.com/Plant,%20Anubias.htm shows some > pictures with captions where the author says they did dramatically trim back > the plant and roots prior to planting what was left onto some driftwood so > maybe it will be OK if you trim the roots. Do a LOT more research though. > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right > side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On > Behalf Of Noura > Sent: Tuesday, December 29, 2009 7:33 AM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Plant Maintenance > > I just uploaded the picture of my Anubias in the photo section. I wonder if > I could cut all these long blackish roots to a lingth of half and inch > without harming the plant. > And if I wanted to cut the stem in half, can I attach the new plant to a > rock? or does it have to be a driftwood, the websites I checked didn't say > much about this. > > Here's the link to the photo, you should be able to see it soon after it's > approved: > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife/photos/album/1806651824/pic/list > > Noura > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Noura > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Sent: Monday, December 28, 2009 3:30 AM > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Plant Maintenance > > > > After looking at all these pictures, I'm almost sure that my plant is > Anubias nana, but I'm also less proud that it survived for more than a year > in my aquarium, as I read that it's a VERY hardy plant, known to be the > "plastic plant that grows!". > Anyway, I'm trying to upload a picture, I'll post the link when I succeed. > > Noura > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Sent: Monday, December 28, 2009 1:17 AM > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Plant Maintenance > > Pictures do not come through this group's postings... for security > reasons. > You would have to upload the picture to your own photo album (like Flickr, > Webshots, PhotoBucket, etc.) or use the Group's photo's section to create > your own album and upload it there. Then give us a link to the photo. > > Anubias is the Genus for which there are MANY species... many of which may > prefer differing water parameters. > > If you can reach these two sites... > > http://www.aquaticplantcentral.com/forumapc/plantfinder/index.php > > http://www.plantgeek.net/plantguide_asearch.php > > ... you can put Anubias in the Genus search field and find the profiles > for > most of the commonly available species in the Anubias Genus. It would be > best for you to be able to look at the photos on these profiles until you > find the one that matches your plant so you will then know the exact > species > and know more about the care of the plant. > > For me, the APC link only found five profiles in their database, whereas > the > PG link found two pages of profiles, many of which were variants of A. > barteri. > > Let me know if you cannot get to either of the above sites or use their > databases. > > Here's a forum thread on APC with some suggestions of plants that do > better > in hard water and higher pH. > > http://www.aquaticplantcentral.com/forumapc/general-aquarium-plants-discussi > ons/63863-high-ph-hard-water-plants.html > > I should probably sign in over there and answer the last question in the > thread since nobody else seemed to know the answer... which is, there is > probably a higher CO2 level in the tap water which outgases once the water > is out of the tap... which is why the pH goes up from 7.4 to 8.2 from the > initial tap water test to once the water is in the tank. If that poster > had > read my blog article about "Find Your Tap Water Baseline...", they would > know the answer to all of their final unanswered questions! ;-) > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right > side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On > Behalf Of Noura > Sent: Sunday, December 27, 2009 12:34 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Subject: [AquaticLife] Plant Maintenance > > Hi again, > Attached to this email you can see my live plant, which I think is > Anubias. > As you can see there's a lot of roots and the stem is much longer than > when > I purchased the plant. The stem is attached to the driftwood piece with a > fishing string, and produces a new leaf every 3-4 weeks. I got it about a > year ago. > How should I maintain this plant, I would like to cut some roots off, is > it > okey? > > In case you want to know, my water is alkaline and very hard: > Nitrite 0 > Nitrates 50 > GH 10 > KH 16 > pH 7.7 - 8.2 (it varies from month to month) > > Noura T. >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 45342	From: Springer,James C.	Date: 12/29/2009
Subject: Re: PWC / Large water change

> From: sevenspringss@... > While it is generally recommended not to change much more than 25% (to 33%) > of the water at any one time, this really depends on how close the hobbyist > keeps their aquarium's water parameters to that of their source water. > ... I regularly change between 85% to 90% of my aquariums' water and > while it may be questioned "why," when there may not be "enough" > nitrates, DOC's or other contaminents yet in the water. . . Ray/Lenny/All, You might want to check out the TFH magazine's November and December 2009 editions which ran a two-part article titled: "Aquarium Science: Time for a Change: A Mathematical Investigation of Water Changes, Part x" The author argues for HUGE water changes. Frankly I don't think anyone can fault the reason why but the author never gets into the topic of water parameters being vastly different than the tap (in the case of fresh water changes.) Here is the link to the second part (Dec 2009) but you may need to be a subscriber to read it: http://www.tfhdigital.com/tfh/200912/?pg=81&pm=2&u1=friend Just interested to hear any thoughts, though Ray does pretty much agree with this guy I believe :) Jim NOTICE: This e-mail message, including any attachments and appended messages, is for the sole use of the intended recipients and may contain confidential and legally privileged information. If you are not the intended recipient, any review, dissemination, distribution, copying, storage or other use of all or any portion of this message is strictly prohibited. If you received this message in error, please immediately notify the sender by reply e-mail and delete this message in its entirety.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 45343	From: Donna Ransome	Date: 12/29/2009
Subject: Re: PWC / Large water change

I usually do 75% but my tap and tank match without additions. All I do is match temp. _____ From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Springer,James C. Sent: Tuesday, December 29, 2009 2:00 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] PWC / Large water change > From: sevenspringss@ <mailto:sevenspringss%40wmconnect.com> wmconnect.com > While it is generally recommended not to change much more than 25% (to 33%) > of the water at any one time, this really depends on how close the hobbyist > keeps their aquarium's water parameters to that of their source water. > ... I regularly change between 85% to 90% of my aquariums' water and > while it may be questioned "why," when there may not be "enough" > nitrates, DOC's or other contaminents yet in the water. . . Ray/Lenny/All, You might want to check out the TFH magazine's November and December 2009 editions which ran a two-part article titled: "Aquarium Science: Time for a Change: A Mathematical Investigation of Water Changes, Part x" The author argues for HUGE water changes. Frankly I don't think anyone can fault the reason why but the author never gets into the topic of water parameters being vastly different than the tap (in the case of fresh water changes.) Here is the link to the second part (Dec 2009) but you may need to be a subscriber to read it: http://www.tfhdigit <http://www.tfhdigital.com/tfh/200912/?pg=81&pm=2&u1=friend> al.com/tfh/200912/?pg=81&pm=2&u1=friend Just interested to hear any thoughts, though Ray does pretty much agree with this guy I believe :) Jim NOTICE: This e-mail message, including any attachments and appended messages, is for the sole use of the intended recipients and may contain confidential and legally privileged information. If you are not the intended recipient, any review, dissemination, distribution, copying, storage or other use of all or any portion of this message is strictly prohibited. If you received this message in error, please immediately notify the sender by reply e-mail and delete this message in its entirety. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 45344	From: bill 1433	Date: 12/29/2009
Subject: Re: PWC / Large water change

Hi Jim!   Happy Holidays to you and your family.  I appreciate your link as my TFH only started for January of the New Year.  What I want to ask is "Do you know of any way to print these articles"?  I'd like to have a copy of both parts but my subscription started after their printing.   Bill --- On Tue, 12/29/09, Springer,James C. <james.springer@...> wrote: From: Springer,James C. <james.springer@...> Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] PWC / Large water change To: "AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com" <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com> Date: Tuesday, December 29, 2009, 1:59 PM >       From: sevenspringss@... >       While it is generally recommended not to change much more than 25% (to 33%) >       of the water at any one time, this really depends on how close the hobbyist >       keeps their aquarium's water parameters to that of their source water. >       ... I regularly change between 85% to 90% of my aquariums' water and >       while it may be questioned "why," when there may not be "enough" >       nitrates, DOC's or other contaminents yet in the water. . . Ray/Lenny/All, You might want to check out the TFH magazine's November and December 2009 editions which ran a two-part article titled: "Aquarium Science: Time for a Change: A Mathematical Investigation of Water Changes, Part x" The author argues for HUGE water changes. Frankly I don't think anyone can fault the reason why but the author never gets into the topic of water parameters being vastly different than the tap (in the case of fresh water changes.) Here is the link to the second part (Dec 2009) but you may need to be a subscriber to read it: http://www.tfhdigital.com/tfh/200912/?pg=81&pm=2&u1=friend Just interested to hear any thoughts, though Ray does pretty much agree with this guy I believe :) Jim NOTICE:  This e-mail message, including any attachments and appended messages, is for the sole use of the intended recipients and may contain confidential and legally privileged information. If you are not the intended recipient, any review, dissemination, distribution, copying, storage or other use of all or any portion of this message is strictly prohibited. If you received this message in error, please immediately notify the sender by reply e-mail and delete this message in its entirety. ------------------------------------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the home page.  Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com to receive the digest, which includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com for the No E-Mail option where you will still be able to read messages on the group and post replies. Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com to receive individual e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 45345	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 12/29/2009
Subject: Re: PWC / Large water change

Now, I have to speed up my reading. I'm still on the October issue of TFH. LOL The author DOES get into the likelihood of high gas levels in the cold tap water supply but fails to consider any of the other water parameters. This common mistake is what led me to write my article, "Find Your Tap Water Baseline", http://goldlenny.blogspot.com/2007/05/find-your-tap-source-water-baseline.ht ml actually written in a forum several years ago and then re-posted to my blog a couple of years ago when I started it. When I first started having people in the forum do this testing, to confirm my suspicions based on my own baseline testing, I was even more astounded at the vast differences of test results right out the tap compared to when the tap water has had a chance to stabilize over 48 hours, allowing CO2 and other gases to outgas and O2, etc., to ingas from the air outside of the closed plumbing system. CO2 and any other acidic gases, at higher levels right out the tap would cause an remarkably lower pH level for many folks and further, during the 48 hour baseline testing period, some of the buffering capacity of the water would change, usually going lower.... but not always. I notice this author used "degassing" instead of outgassing. Maybe I should use that word instead of my previous choice of outgassing but I've used ingassing and outgassing for so long after I found the word "outgassing" in a scientific article from a Google Scholar search several years ago so I presumed it was a legitimate use of the term. I kind of made up ingassing.. lol.. since it seemed the likely opposite of outgassing. I do realize now that I've been mis-spelling outgassing and have only been using one "s" so I'll try to remember to correct myself (and/or my Outlook spell-check dictionary) for future purposes. The other BIG thing this author doesn't mention and is something we face in forums constantly is that oftentimes, folks have neglected to even do weekly PWC's for a LONG time so doing a large water change in that case would result in a HUGE change in water parameters, likely causing pH and osmotic shock issues. If someone knows their tap water parameters and tank parameters are similar and starts off doing large PWC's from day one, then maintaining this regimen would likely be OK but if someone hasn't been doing weekly PWC's at all for a long time or has only been doing 10% or 20% PWC's every two weeks or something like that, then switching to large PWC's would have to be done over an extended period of time to allow the fish a chance to acclimate. Further, while the author mentions the "degassing" issue and how these bubbles could affect the health of the fish causing them to suffer embolisms if the tap water is high in dissolved gases. In closing, as a general rule, I think that 25% PWC per week, along with gravel vacuuming and filter maintenance, on a moderately stocked tank will work long term for most people but in more heavily stocked tanks, undersized tanks, etc., then many more PWC's per week will be needed to maintain water quality. 25% PWC's also give a reasonable margin of error for changes in temperature, especially when filling directly from the tap using a Python or even if filling buckets from the tap to pour into the tank. I try to dissuade people from using any of their hot water system water since that water is close to distilled water due to sitting in a hot water tank for extended periods of time. I guess with tankless hot water heaters, this would not be as much of an issue so a little tankless hot water mixed with the cold water, to make the temperature equal to the tank's temperature would be OK. Most people do NOT have tankless hot water heaters so as a general rule, I'll stick to dissuading the use of the hot water mixed with cold water. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Springer,James C. Sent: Tuesday, December 29, 2009 1:00 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] PWC / Large water change > From: sevenspringss@... > While it is generally recommended not to change much more than 25% (to 33%) > of the water at any one time, this really depends on how close the hobbyist > keeps their aquarium's water parameters to that of their source water. > ... I regularly change between 85% to 90% of my aquariums' water and > while it may be questioned "why," when there may not be "enough" > nitrates, DOC's or other contaminents yet in the water. . . Ray/Lenny/All, You might want to check out the TFH magazine's November and December 2009 editions which ran a two-part article titled: "Aquarium Science: Time for a Change: A Mathematical Investigation of Water Changes, Part x" The author argues for HUGE water changes. Frankly I don't think anyone can fault the reason why but the author never gets into the topic of water parameters being vastly different than the tap (in the case of fresh water changes.) Here is the link to the second part (Dec 2009) but you may need to be a subscriber to read it: http://www.tfhdigital.com/tfh/200912/?pg=81&pm=2&u1=friend Just interested to hear any thoughts, though Ray does pretty much agree with this guy I believe :) Jim

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 45346	From: Springer,James C.	Date: 12/29/2009
Subject: Re: PWC / Large water change

> From: bill 1433 > Happy Holidays to you and your family. I appreciate your link as my > TFH only started for January of the New Year. What I want to ask is > "Do you know of any way to print these articles"? I'd like to have a > copy of both parts but my subscription started after their printing. Bill, Thanks, good wishes to you and yours as well! Off the top, no. I normally don't visit the digital site but since the subject of water changes came up, I thought it be interesting to see what everyone thought. I just checked the site again and apparently the control they use on the site doesn't support printing. Hopefully it is at least viewable to you. Take care. Jim NOTICE: This e-mail message, including any attachments and appended messages, is for the sole use of the intended recipients and may contain confidential and legally privileged information. If you are not the intended recipient, any review, dissemination, distribution, copying, storage or other use of all or any portion of this message is strictly prohibited. If you received this message in error, please immediately notify the sender by reply e-mail and delete this message in its entirety.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 45347	From: bill 1433	Date: 12/29/2009
Subject: Re: PWC / Large water change

To "protect" the article I suppose. I could not do anything with it even logging onto the site. Makes you wonder what's it's really worth in that they will glady send you a complete back issue-------for $12.00! Bill --- On Tue, 12/29/09, Springer,James C. <james.springer@...> wrote: > From: Springer,James C. <james.springer@...> > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] PWC / Large water change > To: "AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com" <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com> > Date: Tuesday, December 29, 2009, 3:09 PM > >    >    From: bill 1433 > > >       Happy Holidays to you > and your family.  I appreciate your link as my > >       TFH only started for > January of the New Year.  What I want to ask is > >       "Do you know of any way > to print these articles"?  I'd like to have a > >       copy of both parts but > my subscription started after their printing. > > Bill, > > Thanks, good wishes to you and yours as well! > > Off the top, no. I normally don't visit the digital site > but since the subject of water changes came up, I thought it > be interesting to see what everyone thought. I just checked > the site again and apparently the control they use on the > site doesn't support printing.  Hopefully it is at > least viewable to you. > > Take care. > Jim > > NOTICE:  This e-mail message, including any > attachments and appended messages, is for the sole use of > the intended recipients and may contain confidential and > legally privileged information. > If you are not the intended recipient, any review, > dissemination, distribution, copying, storage or other use > of all or any portion of this message is strictly > prohibited. > If you received this message in error, please immediately > notify the sender by reply e-mail and delete this message in > its entirety. > > > ------------------------------------ > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when > replying, Thank You. > ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> > ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> > PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is > NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of > the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new > subject (was re: old subject)" <- > <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. > , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. > > If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of > unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by > clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the home page.  > > Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com > to receive the digest, which includes up to 25 posts at a > time in a single email > > Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com > for the No E-Mail option where you will still be able to > read messages on the group and post replies. > > Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com > to receive individual e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links > > >     AquaticLife-fullfeatured@yahoogroups.com > > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 45348	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 12/29/2009
Subject: Re: PWC / Large water change

As a subscriber to TFH, you can go back and read any of the past issues online so you have access to the previous edition's article. You might have to be creative in your want/need to print since the format that TFH uses, dissuades the normal ability to print an article, probably since they sell past issues. These types of online magazines (and many online sales ads, like Walgreens, WalMart, etc.) use JavaScript to create these ads so they cannot be easily printed. I do not know of a way, other than a Print Screen, to capture the screen shot and then you could print that but it would probably take a lot of cutting and pasting to make a decent printed article. You could try contacting TFH, since you are now a customer and see if they can email you a copy of the article... or just bookmark/favorites the page for future reference. I used CCleaner to clean out my temp internet files and then re-opened the TFH article. Then I looked in my TIF folder to see if there might be something that could be opened on it's own and found mostly JS files. I tried saving the page as a file on my computer, in a couple of formats, to see if any of them would save properly and none of them did. These interactive online magazines are nice but they make it much harder to print their copyrighted material. You might be able to some Googling to find a way of printing these things. I'm sure someone has come up with a way. By default on IE, background printing is turned off so there's a chance that turning on background printing will allow one to print the page. When I did a test print of the article page, all that showed up on the print preview was a blank white page with the page title on top and the URL on the bottom. TFH *could* put a Print button on their pages, if they wanted, like this example of an online magazine that uses the same technology but has a Print button on their page>>> http://www.zoozoom.com/ I have no clue what this magazine is (apparently it's a chick-mag.. lol) but it showed up when I did a Google of trying to find info on printing an online magazine article. As you will see on that page, at the bottom, there are the same "next page", "previous page", "share" type buttons but there is also a "Print" button. I haven't found any hacks for printing these types of articles though. Maybe \\Steve// knows of one. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of bill 1433 Sent: Tuesday, December 29, 2009 1:50 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] PWC / Large water change Hi Jim!   Happy Holidays to you and your family.  I appreciate your link as my TFH only started for January of the New Year.  What I want to ask is "Do you know of any way to print these articles"?  I'd like to have a copy of both parts but my subscription started after their printing.   Bill --- On Tue, 12/29/09, Springer,James C. <james.springer@...> wrote: From: Springer,James C. <james.springer@...> Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] PWC / Large water change To: "AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com" <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com> Date: Tuesday, December 29, 2009, 1:59 PM >       From: sevenspringss@... >       While it is generally recommended not to change much more than >25% (to 33%) >       of the water at any one time, this really depends on how close >the hobbyist >       keeps their aquarium's water parameters to that of their source water. >       ... I regularly change between 85% to 90% of my aquariums' water >and >       while it may be questioned "why," when there may not be "enough" >       nitrates, DOC's or other contaminents yet in the water. . . Ray/Lenny/All, You might want to check out the TFH magazine's November and December 2009 editions which ran a two-part article titled: "Aquarium Science: Time for a Change: A Mathematical Investigation of Water Changes, Part x" The author argues for HUGE water changes. Frankly I don't think anyone can fault the reason why but the author never gets into the topic of water parameters being vastly different than the tap (in the case of fresh water changes.) Here is the link to the second part (Dec 2009) but you may need to be a subscriber to read it: http://www.tfhdigital.com/tfh/200912/?pg=81&pm=2&u1=friend Just interested to hear any thoughts, though Ray does pretty much agree with this guy I believe :) Jim

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 45349	From: bill 1433	Date: 12/29/2009
Subject: Re: PWC / Large water change

Len, Like I just said to Jim, they would rather soak you the $12.00 to buy the whole issue--------------stand by for the shipping on that one! <g> Maybe \\Steve// does know of a "work around". We'll have to stand by for a comment, but on Java scripting? I'm not going to put any money on that one! Bill --- On Tue, 12/29/09, Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@...> wrote: > From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@...> > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] PWC / Large water change > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Date: Tuesday, December 29, 2009, 3:46 PM > As a subscriber to TFH, you can go > back and read any of the past issues > online so you have access to the previous edition's > article.  > > You might have to be creative in your want/need to print > since the format > that TFH uses, dissuades the normal ability to print an > article, probably > since they sell past issues.  These types of online > magazines (and many > online sales ads, like Walgreens, WalMart, etc.) use > JavaScript to create > these ads so they cannot be easily printed.  I do not > know of a way, other > than a Print Screen, to capture the screen shot and then > you could print > that but it would probably take a lot of cutting and > pasting to make a > decent printed article. > > You could try contacting TFH, since you are now a customer > and see if they > can email you a copy of the article... or just > bookmark/favorites the page > for future reference. > > I used CCleaner to clean out my temp internet files and > then re-opened the > TFH article.  Then I looked in my TIF folder to see if > there might be > something that could be opened on it's own and found mostly > JS files.  I > tried saving the page as a file on my computer, in a couple > of formats, to > see if any of them would save properly and none of them > did.  These > interactive online magazines are nice but they make it much > harder to print > their copyrighted material.  You might be able to some > Googling to find a > way of printing these things.  I'm sure someone has > come up with a way.  By > default on IE, background printing is turned off so there's > a chance that > turning on background printing will allow one to print the > page.  When I did > a test print of the article page, all that showed up on the > print preview > was a blank white page with the page title on top and the > URL on the bottom. > > > TFH *could* put a Print button on their pages, if they > wanted, like this > example of an online magazine that uses the same technology > but has a Print > button on their page>>>  http://www.zoozoom.com/%c2%a0 I have no clue what this > magazine is (apparently it's a chick-mag.. lol) but it > showed up when I did > a Google of trying to find info on printing an online > magazine article.  As > you will see on that page, at the bottom, there are the > same "next page", > "previous page", "share" type buttons but there is also a > "Print" button.  I > haven't found any hacks for printing these types of > articles though.  Maybe > \\Steve// knows of one. > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed > on the right > side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives > by Year, Month) > > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] > On > Behalf Of bill 1433 > Sent: Tuesday, December 29, 2009 1:50 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] PWC / Large water change > > Hi Jim! >   > Happy Holidays to you and your family.  I appreciate your > link as my TFH > only started for January of the New Year.  What I want to > ask is "Do you > know of any way to print these articles"?  I'd like to > have a copy of both > parts but my subscription started after their printing. >   > Bill > > --- On Tue, 12/29/09, Springer,James C. <james.springer@...> > wrote: > > > From: Springer,James C. <james.springer@...> > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] PWC / Large water change > To: "AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com" > <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com> > Date: Tuesday, December 29, 2009, 1:59 PM > > > >       From: sevenspringss@... > > >       While it is generally recommended not to > change much more than > >25% (to 33%) > >       of the water at any one time, this really > depends on how close > >the hobbyist > >       keeps their aquarium's water parameters to > that of their source > water. > > >       ... I regularly change between 85% to 90% > of my aquariums' water > >and > >       while it may be questioned "why," when > there may not be "enough" > >       nitrates, DOC's or other contaminents yet > in the water. . . > > Ray/Lenny/All, > > You might want to check out the TFH magazine's November and > December 2009 > editions which ran a two-part article titled: "Aquarium > Science: Time for a > Change: A Mathematical Investigation of Water Changes, Part > x" > > The author argues for HUGE water changes. Frankly I don't > think anyone can > fault the reason why but the author never gets into the > topic of water > parameters being vastly different than the tap (in the case > of fresh water > changes.) > > Here is the link to the second part (Dec 2009) but you may > need to be a > subscriber to read it: > http://www.tfhdigital.com/tfh/200912/?pg=81&pm=2&u1=friend > > Just interested to hear any thoughts, though Ray does > pretty much agree with > this guy I believe :) > > Jim > > > > ------------------------------------ > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when > replying, Thank You. > ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> > ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> > PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is > NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of > the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new > subject (was re: old subject)" <- > <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. > , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. > > If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of > unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by > clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the home page.  > > Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com > to receive the digest, which includes up to 25 posts at a > time in a single email > > Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com > for the No E-Mail option where you will still be able to > read messages on the group and post replies. > > Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com > to receive individual e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links > > >     AquaticLife-fullfeatured@yahoogroups.com > > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 45350	From: sevenspringss@wmconnect.com	Date: 12/29/2009
Subject: Re: PWC / Large water change

Hello Jim, I've just now been reading this thread on the two-part article ("Aquarium Science, Time for a Change, etc.") in the Nov. & Dec. issues of TFH. I don't subscribe to this magazine, but I guess I just may have to pick them up at my LFS if their both still available -- if only to satisfy my curiousity as to what was written. It's always a good topic though, as it goes right to the heart of aquarium maintenance. As for "HUGH" water changes -- and your comment on the author never addressing water parameters being "vastly different than the tap water." You seem to be completely missing the whole point of what I had stated with such large water changes. When done consistantly (on a regular basis every week or twice a week) -- THERE ARE NO DIFFERENCES in water parameters between the aquarium and the tap water. This is the whole point of doing "HUGH" water changes -- contaminants never get a chance to build up; DOC's, nitrates etc. never get a chance to build up, while the pH, KH and GH all REMAIN THE SAME as the tap water at all times. I can't stress enough about the importance of changing as much water as one can. In fact, I'm a firm believer in the principle that one can never change enough water in the aquarium. If you could have a small river of the proper temperature running into one end of your aquarium, while it is running out of the other end of the aquarium, there would be no diseases caused by the stress of contaminant build up as the water would be as clean exiting the tank as it would be entering the tank. Essentially, it would be as if the fish were back in a natural stream. Naturally, it should go without saying -- that you can't get away with performing hugh water changes after you have left the contaminants build up in a tank for a month. You would be asking for putting a lot of stress on the fish when changing out water that may be vastly different than your tank water at that time -- and that's where the danger in making hugh water changes lies. You can't let the contaminants build up to proportions that are not only dagerous to the fish, but which by that time are quite different than the water you will be replacing it with when you remove it. Water changing must be as constant as your regular maintenance regimen requires, and it should require it at consistant periods (weekly) even before it becomes "needed." Once it becomes "needed," then it's like saying contaminants have already built up so now's the time to finally change it before it leads to stress (and illness). Ray </HTML>

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 45351	From: sevenspringss@wmconnect.com	Date: 12/29/2009
Subject: Re: PWC / Large water change

Looks like you have the right idea, Donna. Ray</HTML>

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 45352	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 12/29/2009
Subject: Re: PWC / Large water change

Ray, You should be able to read these articles online, if you wish. When you go to the page and it says for subscribers to sign in with their email address, just X out of that and then you can read the article. Although I'm a subscriber, I didn't feel like logging in so I just X'ed out of the sign-in box that popped up and was able to read the entire article... and even the entire magazine if I wanted to. Possibly, I still have my TFH cookie on my computer so it remembered me somehow but then it shouldn't have asked me to log in if it remembered me. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of sevenspringss@... Sent: Tuesday, December 29, 2009 3:11 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] PWC / Large water change Hello Jim, I've just now been reading this thread on the two-part article ("Aquarium Science, Time for a Change, etc.") in the Nov. & Dec. issues of TFH. I don't subscribe to this magazine, but I guess I just may have to pick them up at my LFS if their both still available -- if only to satisfy my curiousity as to what was written. It's always a good topic though, as it goes right to the heart of aquarium maintenance. As for "HUGH" water changes -- and your comment on the author never addressing water parameters being "vastly different than the tap water." You seem to be completely missing the whole point of what I had stated with such large water changes. When done consistantly (on a regular basis every week or twice a week) -- THERE ARE NO DIFFERENCES in water parameters between the aquarium and the tap water. This is the whole point of doing "HUGH" water changes -- contaminants never get a chance to build up; DOC's, nitrates etc. never get a chance to build up, while the pH, KH and GH all REMAIN THE SAME as the tap water at all times. I can't stress enough about the importance of changing as much water as one can. In fact, I'm a firm believer in the principle that one can never change enough water in the aquarium. If you could have a small river of the proper temperature running into one end of your aquarium, while it is running out of the other end of the aquarium, there would be no diseases caused by the stress of contaminant build up as the water would be as clean exiting the tank as it would be entering the tank. Essentially, it would be as if the fish were back in a natural stream. Naturally, it should go without saying -- that you can't get away with performing hugh water changes after you have left the contaminants build up in a tank for a month. You would be asking for putting a lot of stress on the fish when changing out water that may be vastly different than your tank water at that time -- and that's where the danger in making hugh water changes lies. You can't let the contaminants build up to proportions that are not only dagerous to the fish, but which by that time are quite different than the water you will be replacing it with when you remove it. Water changing must be as constant as your regular maintenance regimen requires, and it should require it at consistant periods (weekly) even before it becomes "needed." Once it becomes "needed," then it's like saying contaminants have already built up so now's the time to finally change it before it leads to stress (and illness). Ray

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 45353	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 12/29/2009
Subject: Re: PWC / Large water change

The pages displayed are .PNG images. You can copy the image, and perhaps work with that, but when I used the Microsoft picture whatever, they were fuzzy, and would not reproduce well. What you may want to try is to copy the image and save it, then use your browser to open it and print from there. I could only get the image buy using the save function of my browser, look in the file menu. I would suspect they are using a content management system with dome sort of digital protection, hence the out of focus appearance of the .PNG files. I really do not have the time to screw around with it much more than that. One thing that was not covered in the part of the article, but may have bee, though I kind of tend to doubt it, is handling fish that do not handle water changes, no matter the size, well. I had some _Julidochromis transcriptus_, back when they were still rare fish, and had to do daily water changes of a very minimal amount, otherwise they did not do well. Even a 10% water change seemed to be too much for them to handle, yet, doing the less than 5% daily water change kept them happy and breeding. When I get the room to have a fishroom again, I plan on setting up a central filtration system and doing what will essentially be a constant water change, removing and replacing a small amount of water on a constant basis. \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Lenny V. aka GoldLenny Sent: Tuesday, December 29, 2009 3:46 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] PWC / Large water change As a subscriber to TFH, you can go back and read any of the past issues online so you have access to the previous edition's article. You might have to be creative in your want/need to print since the format that TFH uses, dissuades the normal ability to print an article, probably since they sell past issues. These types of online magazines (and many online sales ads, like Walgreens, WalMart, etc.) use JavaScript to create these ads so they cannot be easily printed. I do not know of a way, other than a Print Screen, to capture the screen shot and then you could print that but it would probably take a lot of cutting and pasting to make a decent printed article. You could try contacting TFH, since you are now a customer and see if they can email you a copy of the article... or just bookmark/favorites the page for future reference. I used CCleaner to clean out my temp internet files and then re-opened the TFH article. Then I looked in my TIF folder to see if there might be something that could be opened on it's own and found mostly JS files. I tried saving the page as a file on my computer, in a couple of formats, to see if any of them would save properly and none of them did. These interactive online magazines are nice but they make it much harder to print their copyrighted material. You might be able to some Googling to find a way of printing these things. I'm sure someone has come up with a way. By default on IE, background printing is turned off so there's a chance that turning on background printing will allow one to print the page. When I did a test print of the article page, all that showed up on the print preview was a blank white page with the page title on top and the URL on the bottom. TFH *could* put a Print button on their pages, if they wanted, like this example of an online magazine that uses the same technology but has a Print button on their page>>> http://www.zoozoom.com/ I have no clue what this magazine is (apparently it's a chick-mag.. lol) but it showed up when I did a Google of trying to find info on printing an online magazine article. As you will see on that page, at the bottom, there are the same "next page", "previous page", "share" type buttons but there is also a "Print" button. I haven't found any hacks for printing these types of articles though. Maybe \\Steve// knows of one. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of bill 1433 Sent: Tuesday, December 29, 2009 1:50 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] PWC / Large water change Hi Jim!   Happy Holidays to you and your family.  I appreciate your link as my TFH only started for January of the New Year.  What I want to ask is "Do you know of any way to print these articles"?  I'd like to have a copy of both parts but my subscription started after their printing.   Bill --- On Tue, 12/29/09, Springer,James C. <james.springer@...> wrote: From: Springer,James C. <james.springer@...> Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] PWC / Large water change To: "AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com" <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com> Date: Tuesday, December 29, 2009, 1:59 PM >       From: sevenspringss@... >       While it is generally recommended not to change much more than >25% (to 33%) >       of the water at any one time, this really depends on how close >the hobbyist >       keeps their aquarium's water parameters to that of their source water. >       ... I regularly change between 85% to 90% of my aquariums' water >and >       while it may be questioned "why," when there may not be "enough" >       nitrates, DOC's or other contaminents yet in the water. . . Ray/Lenny/All, You might want to check out the TFH magazine's November and December 2009 editions which ran a two-part article titled: "Aquarium Science: Time for a Change: A Mathematical Investigation of Water Changes, Part x" The author argues for HUGE water changes. Frankly I don't think anyone can fault the reason why but the author never gets into the topic of water parameters being vastly different than the tap (in the case of fresh water changes.) Here is the link to the second part (Dec 2009) but you may need to be a subscriber to read it: http://www.tfhdigital.com/tfh/200912/?pg=81&pm=2&u1=friend Just interested to hear any thoughts, though Ray does pretty much agree with this guy I believe :) Jim

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 45354	From: Deenerz@aol.com	Date: 12/29/2009
Subject: Re: PWC / Large water change

A pet store may have a back issue. You can periodically find back issues on ebay or aquabid. -Mike -----Original Message----- From: bill 1433 <warrenprint@...> To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Tue, Dec 29, 2009 12:25 pm Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] PWC / Large water change   To "protect" the article I suppose. I could not do anything with it even logging onto the site. Makes you wonder what's it's really worth in that they will glady send you a complete back issue-------for $12.00! Bill --- On Tue, 12/29/09, Springer,James C. <james.springer@...> wrote: > From: Springer,James C. <james.springer@...> > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] PWC / Large water change > To: "AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com" <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com> > Date: Tuesday, December 29, 2009, 3:09 PM > >    >    From: bill 1433 > > >       Happy Holidays to you > and your family.  I appreciate your link as my > >       TFH only started for > January of the New Year.  What I want to ask is > >       "Do you know of any way > to print these articles"?  I'd like to have a > >       copy of both parts but > my subscription started after their printing. > > Bill, > > Thanks, good wishes to you and yours as well! > > Off the top, no. I normally don't visit the digital site > but since the subject of water changes came up, I thought it > be interesting to see what everyone thought. I just checked > the site again and apparently the control they use on the > site doesn't support printing.  Hopefully it is at > least viewable to you. > > Take care. > Jim > > NOTICE:  This e-mail message, including any > attachments and appended messages, is for the sole use of > the intended recipients and may contain confidential and > legally privileged information. > If you are not the intended recipient, any review, > dissemination, distribution, copying, storage or other use > of all or any portion of this message is strictly > prohibited. > If you received this message in error, please immediately > notify the sender by reply e-mail and delete this message in > its entirety. > > > ------------------------------------ > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when > replying, Thank You. > ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> > ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> > PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is > NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of > the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new > subject (was re: old subject)" <- > <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. > , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. > > If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of > unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by > clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the home page.  > > Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com > to receive the digest, which includes up to 25 posts at a > time in a single email > > Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com > for the No E-Mail option where you will still be able to > read messages on the group and post replies. > > Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com > to receive individual e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links > > >     AquaticLife-fullfeatured@yahoogroups.com > > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 45355	From: Noura	Date: 12/30/2009
Subject: Re: Plant Maintenance

I'd hate to "kill" it too, as it's the only plant that managed to survive this long under my lack of planting experience! Noura ----- Original Message ----- From: "Amber Berglund" <arberglund@...> To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Tuesday, December 29, 2009 5:01 PM Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Plant Maintenance If you cut the "stem" (it's called a rhizome on this plant), then just split it in half with the roots split up as well you can reattach the new "baby" plant to something else and it will continue to grow. You can attach it to almost anything, rocks, driftwood, you can even partially bury it in gravel (just leave the main top part of the roots showing because if you cover it all up it will start to die). I'm not sure about cutting all the roots, and I wouldn't recommend it myself, if you're going to trim up the roots I would just trim a little at a time and see if it affects the plant first, I'd hate to have you kill the plant by trimming off too many roots. Amber

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 45356	From: Noura	Date: 12/30/2009
Subject: Re: Plant Maintenance

If I planted the new "baby plant" in the substrate, should I skip this spot when I vacuum the gravel to avoid taking the roots in and out of their place periodically? Noura ----- Original Message ----- From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Tuesday, December 29, 2009 5:47 PM Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Plant Maintenance Every picture on this profile, http://www.plantgeek.net/plantguide_viewer.php?id=19, also shows it planted (in the pics that show the base of the plant... some show the flower). A Google of 'Anubias barteri var. nana on Driftwood' does show that lots of people do plant it on driftwood but to me, it seems like it would be better off planted in the substrate according to the instructions on the PG site above. This LiveAquaria.com AD shows it on driftwood, http://www.liveaquaria.com/product/prod_display.cfm?c=768+2384&pcatid=2384 or close-up, http://www.liveaquaria.com/product/detailed_image.cfm?pCatId=2384 but they took the pic at an angle to NOT show the roots. This *article* http://aqualandpetsplus.com/Plant,%20Anubias.htm shows some pictures with captions where the author says they did dramatically trim back the plant and roots prior to planting what was left onto some driftwood so maybe it will be OK if you trim the roots. Do a LOT more research though. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Noura Sent: Tuesday, December 29, 2009 7:33 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Plant Maintenance I just uploaded the picture of my Anubias in the photo section. I wonder if I could cut all these long blackish roots to a lingth of half and inch without harming the plant. And if I wanted to cut the stem in half, can I attach the new plant to a rock? or does it have to be a driftwood, the websites I checked didn't say much about this. Here's the link to the photo, you should be able to see it soon after it's approved: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife/photos/album/1806651824/pic/list Noura ----- Original Message ----- From: Noura To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Monday, December 28, 2009 3:30 AM Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Plant Maintenance After looking at all these pictures, I'm almost sure that my plant is Anubias nana, but I'm also less proud that it survived for more than a year in my aquarium, as I read that it's a VERY hardy plant, known to be the "plastic plant that grows!". Anyway, I'm trying to upload a picture, I'll post the link when I succeed. Noura ----- Original Message ----- From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Monday, December 28, 2009 1:17 AM Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Plant Maintenance Pictures do not come through this group's postings... for security reasons. You would have to upload the picture to your own photo album (like Flickr, Webshots, PhotoBucket, etc.) or use the Group's photo's section to create your own album and upload it there. Then give us a link to the photo. Anubias is the Genus for which there are MANY species... many of which may prefer differing water parameters. If you can reach these two sites... http://www.aquaticplantcentral.com/forumapc/plantfinder/index.php http://www.plantgeek.net/plantguide_asearch.php ... you can put Anubias in the Genus search field and find the profiles for most of the commonly available species in the Anubias Genus. It would be best for you to be able to look at the photos on these profiles until you find the one that matches your plant so you will then know the exact species and know more about the care of the plant. For me, the APC link only found five profiles in their database, whereas the PG link found two pages of profiles, many of which were variants of A. barteri. Let me know if you cannot get to either of the above sites or use their databases. Here's a forum thread on APC with some suggestions of plants that do better in hard water and higher pH. http://www.aquaticplantcentral.com/forumapc/general-aquarium-plants-discussi ons/63863-high-ph-hard-water-plants.html I should probably sign in over there and answer the last question in the thread since nobody else seemed to know the answer... which is, there is probably a higher CO2 level in the tap water which outgases once the water is out of the tap... which is why the pH goes up from 7.4 to 8.2 from the initial tap water test to once the water is in the tank. If that poster had read my blog article about "Find Your Tap Water Baseline...", they would know the answer to all of their final unanswered questions! ;-) Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Noura Sent: Sunday, December 27, 2009 12:34 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Plant Maintenance Hi again, Attached to this email you can see my live plant, which I think is Anubias. As you can see there's a lot of roots and the stem is much longer than when I purchased the plant. The stem is attached to the driftwood piece with a fishing string, and produces a new leaf every 3-4 weeks. I got it about a year ago. How should I maintain this plant, I would like to cut some roots off, is it okey? In case you want to know, my water is alkaline and very hard: Nitrite 0 Nitrates 50 GH 10 KH 16 pH 7.7 - 8.2 (it varies from month to month) Noura T. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 45357	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 12/30/2009
Subject: Re: Plant Maintenance

When vacuuming a planted tank, only vacuum the surface of the substrate around the plants. You can leave the siphon tube right at the surface of the gravel until you see it no longer sucking up detritus. Do not push the siphon tube down in to the gravel except for areas where there are no plants or roots. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Noura Sent: Wednesday, December 30, 2009 1:43 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Plant Maintenance If I planted the new "baby plant" in the substrate, should I skip this spot when I vacuum the gravel to avoid taking the roots in and out of their place periodically? Noura ----- Original Message ----- From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Tuesday, December 29, 2009 5:47 PM Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Plant Maintenance Every picture on this profile, http://www.plantgeek.net/plantguide_viewer.php?id=19, also shows it planted (in the pics that show the base of the plant... some show the flower). A Google of 'Anubias barteri var. nana on Driftwood' does show that lots of people do plant it on driftwood but to me, it seems like it would be better off planted in the substrate according to the instructions on the PG site above. This LiveAquaria.com AD shows it on driftwood, http://www.liveaquaria.com/product/prod_display.cfm?c=768+2384&pcatid=2384 or close-up, http://www.liveaquaria.com/product/detailed_image.cfm?pCatId=2384 but they took the pic at an angle to NOT show the roots. This *article* http://aqualandpetsplus.com/Plant,%20Anubias.htm shows some pictures with captions where the author says they did dramatically trim back the plant and roots prior to planting what was left onto some driftwood so maybe it will be OK if you trim the roots. Do a LOT more research though. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Noura Sent: Tuesday, December 29, 2009 7:33 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Plant Maintenance I just uploaded the picture of my Anubias in the photo section. I wonder if I could cut all these long blackish roots to a lingth of half and inch without harming the plant. And if I wanted to cut the stem in half, can I attach the new plant to a rock? or does it have to be a driftwood, the websites I checked didn't say much about this. Here's the link to the photo, you should be able to see it soon after it's approved: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife/photos/album/1806651824/pic/list Noura ----- Original Message ----- From: Noura To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Monday, December 28, 2009 3:30 AM Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Plant Maintenance After looking at all these pictures, I'm almost sure that my plant is Anubias nana, but I'm also less proud that it survived for more than a year in my aquarium, as I read that it's a VERY hardy plant, known to be the "plastic plant that grows!". Anyway, I'm trying to upload a picture, I'll post the link when I succeed. Noura ----- Original Message ----- From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Monday, December 28, 2009 1:17 AM Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Plant Maintenance Pictures do not come through this group's postings... for security reasons. You would have to upload the picture to your own photo album (like Flickr, Webshots, PhotoBucket, etc.) or use the Group's photo's section to create your own album and upload it there. Then give us a link to the photo. Anubias is the Genus for which there are MANY species... many of which may prefer differing water parameters. If you can reach these two sites... http://www.aquaticplantcentral.com/forumapc/plantfinder/index.php http://www.plantgeek.net/plantguide_asearch.php ... you can put Anubias in the Genus search field and find the profiles for most of the commonly available species in the Anubias Genus. It would be best for you to be able to look at the photos on these profiles until you find the one that matches your plant so you will then know the exact species and know more about the care of the plant. For me, the APC link only found five profiles in their database, whereas the PG link found two pages of profiles, many of which were variants of A. barteri. Let me know if you cannot get to either of the above sites or use their databases. Here's a forum thread on APC with some suggestions of plants that do better in hard water and higher pH. http://www.aquaticplantcentral.com/forumapc/general-aquarium-plants-discussi ons/63863-high-ph-hard-water-plants.html I should probably sign in over there and answer the last question in the thread since nobody else seemed to know the answer... which is, there is probably a higher CO2 level in the tap water which outgases once the water is out of the tap... which is why the pH goes up from 7.4 to 8.2 from the initial tap water test to once the water is in the tank. If that poster had read my blog article about "Find Your Tap Water Baseline...", they would know the answer to all of their final unanswered questions! ;-) Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Noura Sent: Sunday, December 27, 2009 12:34 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Plant Maintenance Hi again, Attached to this email you can see my live plant, which I think is Anubias. As you can see there's a lot of roots and the stem is much longer than when I purchased the plant. The stem is attached to the driftwood piece with a fishing string, and produces a new leaf every 3-4 weeks. I got it about a year ago. How should I maintain this plant, I would like to cut some roots off, is it okey? In case you want to know, my water is alkaline and very hard: Nitrite 0 Nitrates 50 GH 10 KH 16 pH 7.7 - 8.2 (it varies from month to month) Noura T. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] ------------------------------------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. 74/`7.88.><((((:>.74/`7.88.74/`7.8><((((:> 8.74/`7.8. , .74/`7..><((((:> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <:((((><.74/`7.88.74/`7.8<:((((><8.74/`7.8. , .74/`7..<:((((><74/`7.88. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the home page. Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com to receive the digest, which includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com for the No E-Mail option where you will still be able to read messages on the group and post replies. Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com to receive individual e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 45358	From: kuradi8	Date: 12/30/2009
Subject: More Snail Questions

I've got snails in my (3) Betta Bowls. The new big mystery snails are there on purpose -- one each. The little teeny ones came in uninvited on the plants (but that's OK.) One of the sites says to put a shell or calcium tablets into the water so that snails don't suffer from weak shells but soon after I did, one of my mystery snails died. I can't help but think it was as a result of the clam shell. They've been out of salt water (and in my garden) for over 10 years so I doubt salt played a role. I've removed the shells from the other bowls too. The shells weren't such a good idea were they? I feed my Bettas TetraMin Tropical Granules, the one with the (color coded) dark green cap and a Betta on the front of the container. I also occasionally drop in a TetraMin Tropical Tablet for the snails but they don't seem to eat it. What should I be feeding these snails? ~Kai

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 45359	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 12/30/2009
Subject: Re: More Snail Questions

I've noticed my snails prefer veggies over meaty foods. Try dropping in a slice of cucumber or red/green leaf lettuce (or romaine). Otherwise they will also go after sinking veggie wafers. What is your pH in your betta bowls and how warm do you keep the water? mystery snails grow faster and die sooner the warmer the water is, but if you're in the 70's range it shouldn't cause them to grow too fast. Adding shells to the tank shouldn't cause harm unless the shells were dirty. I have shells in all of my tanks, as well as crushed coral in my filters and under my gravel and it's never caused any issues. Amber kuradi8 wrote: > > I've got snails in my (3) Betta Bowls. The new big mystery snails are > there on purpose -- one each. The little teeny ones came in uninvited > on the plants (but that's OK.) > > One of the sites says to put a shell or calcium tablets into the water > so that snails don't suffer from weak shells but soon after I did, one > of my mystery snails died. I can't help but think it was as a result > of the clam shell. They've been out of salt water (and in my garden) > for over 10 years so I doubt salt played a role. I've removed the > shells from the other bowls too. The shells weren't such a good idea > were they? > > I feed my Bettas TetraMin Tropical Granules, the one with the (color > coded) dark green cap and a Betta on the front of the container. I > also occasionally drop in a TetraMin Tropical Tablet for the snails > but they don't seem to eat it. What should I be feeding these snails? > ~Kai > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 45360	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 12/30/2009
Subject: Re: More Snail Questions

Also I forgot to add, mystery snails are very easy to starve, if they can't find food or they don't want the food they find they will "hibernate" sometimes and just wait for a flood to carry them away to a new place (yeah that doesn't happen but they seem to think it might, LOL). I seem to lose a mystery snail once a month, but they're all adult sized so I can't be sure if they didn't die of old age or something, but out of an entire tank filled with them one a month doesn't seem odd to me. I have MANY left, LOL. Amber kuradi8 wrote: > > I've got snails in my (3) Betta Bowls. The new big mystery snails are > there on purpose -- one each. The little teeny ones came in uninvited > on the plants (but that's OK.) > > One of the sites says to put a shell or calcium tablets into the water > so that snails don't suffer from weak shells but soon after I did, one > of my mystery snails died. I can't help but think it was as a result > of the clam shell. They've been out of salt water (and in my garden) > for over 10 years so I doubt salt played a role. I've removed the > shells from the other bowls too. The shells weren't such a good idea > were they? > > I feed my Bettas TetraMin Tropical Granules, the one with the (color > coded) dark green cap and a Betta on the front of the container. I > also occasionally drop in a TetraMin Tropical Tablet for the snails > but they don't seem to eat it. What should I be feeding these snails? > ~Kai > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 45361	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 12/30/2009
Subject: Re: More Snail Questions

Any pesticides used in your garden? Since shells are porous, they could have soaked up pesticides or other ground contaminates and leached them into your bowls. If you do not use pesticides in your garden and there is not a likelihood of other ground contaminants, then the shells should have been OK. I use Cuttle Bone for the slow release of calcium carbonates. You can buy Cuttle Bone in the pet bird section of most pet stores. They're cheap (I get 3 Cuttle Bones for $1.50... singles are 99 cents so I buy the three pack). Even a single cuttle bone will last a LONG time. I break nickel/dime sized pieces off as needed and use more pieces in my bigger tanks and just one or two pieces in my smaller tanks. I put the pieces in my filter reservoir and then keep an eye on them each time I do filter maintenance and add another piece or more as needed. If I lived in an area where limestone based rocks were readily available in nature, I'd do that instead but down here in the swamps, there ain't a lot of limestone... at least not above ground. As far as feeding snails, here's a long list of fresh veggies and fruits that are also high in calcium and if you read the entire thread, you'll see which ones seem to be most favored by the snails. http://www.applesnail.net/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=3988 Hmmmmm.. I just clicked that link, which I've had in my favorites folder for a LONG time and it's not working. It could be a temporary website forum issue. Here's the internet archived version of the page. Oops.. that's not working either since the Internet Archive says the site blocks the archiving search spiders. Dang.. looks like Applesnail.net has changed forums and the migration didn't work out as well as it should have so I'm gonna have to fix all my Favorite links to their forums. Dang again.. I can't find the Food thread now. I hate when forums do this. Try this article instead. http://www.applesnail.net/content/care.php#food Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of kuradi8 Sent: Wednesday, December 30, 2009 10:04 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] More Snail Questions I've got snails in my (3) Betta Bowls. The new big mystery snails are there on purpose -- one each. The little teeny ones came in uninvited on the plants (but that's OK.) One of the sites says to put a shell or calcium tablets into the water so that snails don't suffer from weak shells but soon after I did, one of my mystery snails died. I can't help but think it was as a result of the clam shell. They've been out of salt water (and in my garden) for over 10 years so I doubt salt played a role. I've removed the shells from the other bowls too. The shells weren't such a good idea were they? I feed my Bettas TetraMin Tropical Granules, the one with the (color coded) dark green cap and a Betta on the front of the container. I also occasionally drop in a TetraMin Tropical Tablet for the snails but they don't seem to eat it. What should I be feeding these snails? ~Kai

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 45362	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 12/30/2009
Subject: Re: More Snail Questions

I think Romaine has the higher calcium content... if I recall from the now missing Applesnail.net food list. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Amber Berglund Sent: Wednesday, December 30, 2009 10:35 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] More Snail Questions I've noticed my snails prefer veggies over meaty foods. Try dropping in a slice of cucumber or red/green leaf lettuce (or romaine). Otherwise they will also go after sinking veggie wafers. What is your pH in your betta bowls and how warm do you keep the water? mystery snails grow faster and die sooner the warmer the water is, but if you're in the 70's range it shouldn't cause them to grow too fast. Adding shells to the tank shouldn't cause harm unless the shells were dirty. I have shells in all of my tanks, as well as crushed coral in my filters and under my gravel and it's never caused any issues. Amber kuradi8 wrote: > > I've got snails in my (3) Betta Bowls. The new big mystery snails are > there on purpose -- one each. The little teeny ones came in uninvited > on the plants (but that's OK.) > > One of the sites says to put a shell or calcium tablets into the water > so that snails don't suffer from weak shells but soon after I did, one > of my mystery snails died. I can't help but think it was as a result > of the clam shell. They've been out of salt water (and in my garden) > for over 10 years so I doubt salt played a role. I've removed the > shells from the other bowls too. The shells weren't such a good idea > were they? > > I feed my Bettas TetraMin Tropical Granules, the one with the (color > coded) dark green cap and a Betta on the front of the container. I > also occasionally drop in a TetraMin Tropical Tablet for the snails > but they don't seem to eat it. What should I be feeding these snails? > ~Kai

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 45363	From: kuradi8	Date: 12/30/2009
Subject: Re: More Snail Questions

OK, I'll try fresh veggies and veggie wafers. The ph is very close to neutral (the shells boosted it into the "too blue" range in my test kit) and the temperature is room temperature. I scrubbed (no soap) the shells well before adding them to the bowls and no, no pesticides or anything else in my garden. I'm a LAZY gardener and let nature take its own course. The only "fertilizer" I use is the dirty water I take out my 55g when I vacuum it -- and that's only in the warm months when I'm willing to transfer it out of the bucket into my watering can and stand there like Mary Mary Quite Contrary. Bummer about that snail cos it was doing so well until I put the shell in. And my Betta stood over it as if he were mourning... it was sad. ~Kai > Amber Berglund wrote: > > I've noticed my snails prefer veggies over meaty foods. Try dropping in a slice of cucumber or red/green leaf lettuce (or romaine). Otherwise they will also go after sinking veggie wafers. > What is your pH in your betta bowls and how warm do you keep the water? mystery snails grow faster and die sooner the warmer the water is, but if you're in the 70's range it shouldn't cause them to grow too fast. > Adding shells to the tank shouldn't cause harm unless the shells were dirty. I have shells in all of my tanks, as well as crushed coral in my filters and under my gravel and it's never caused any issues. > > Amber > >Also I forgot to add, mystery snails are very easy to starve, if they can't find food or they don't want the food they find they will hibernate" sometimes and just wait for a flood to carry them away to a new place (yeah that doesn't happen but they seem to think it might, LOL). I seem to lose a mystery snail once a month, but they're all adult sized so I can't be sure if they didn't die of old age or something, but out of an entire tank filled with them one a month doesn't seem odd to me. I have MANY left, LOL. > >Amber > > > Kai wrote: > > > > I've got snails in my (3) Betta Bowls. The new big mystery snails are there on purpose -- one each. The little teeny ones came in uninvited on the plants (but that's OK.) > > > > One of the sites says to put a shell or calcium tablets into the water so that snails don't suffer from weak shells but soon after I did, one of my mystery snails died. I can't help but think it was as a result of the clam shell. They've been out of salt water (and in my garden) for over 10 years so I doubt salt played a role. I've removed the shells from the other bowls too. The shells weren't such a good idea were they? > > > > I feed my Bettas TetraMin Tropical Granules, the one with the (color coded) dark green cap and a Betta on the front of the container. I also occasionally drop in a TetraMin Tropical Tablet for the snails but they don't seem to eat it. What should I be feeding these snails? > > ~Kai > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 45364	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 12/30/2009
Subject: Re: More Snail Questions

It's possible that it was old before you bought it and it was just on it's last "snail foot" (LOL sorry). I've found that snails do better in pH above 7, preferably 7.2-7.4 is their happiest range, but they will survive in lower pH if you baby them more (add calcium to the tank or feed them a lot of high calcium foods). I killed several of my snails when I moved them downstairs to my big tank as I had forgotten to refill the crushed coral and the pH had dropped slowly back down into the 6's. Once I refilled the crushed coral in the filter everything went back to normal and the snails have been doing much better again. One of these days I'm going to put fingernail polish or something on one of my baby snails to see how long it takes for them to die of old age, I still haven't found an age range anywhere online, they all say "it's based on the temp of the water they are kept in" but still no one seems to give an age range or anything. They could live a year or more, who knows? LOL. Amber kuradi8 wrote: > > OK, I'll try fresh veggies and veggie wafers. > > The ph is very close to neutral (the shells boosted it into the "too > blue" range in my test kit) and the temperature is room temperature. > > I scrubbed (no soap) the shells well before adding them to the bowls > and no, no pesticides or anything else in my garden. I'm a LAZY > gardener and let nature take its own course. The only "fertilizer" I > use is the dirty water I take out my 55g when I vacuum it -- and > that's only in the warm months when I'm willing to transfer it out of > the bucket into my watering can and stand there like Mary Mary Quite > Contrary. > > Bummer about that snail cos it was doing so well until I put the shell > in. And my Betta stood over it as if he were mourning... it was sad. > ~Kai > > > Amber Berglund wrote: > > > > I've noticed my snails prefer veggies over meaty foods. Try dropping > in a slice of cucumber or red/green leaf lettuce (or romaine). > Otherwise they will also go after sinking veggie wafers. > > What is your pH in your betta bowls and how warm do you keep the > water? mystery snails grow faster and die sooner the warmer the water > is, but if you're in the 70's range it shouldn't cause them to grow > too fast. > > Adding shells to the tank shouldn't cause harm unless the shells > were dirty. I have shells in all of my tanks, as well as crushed coral > in my filters and under my gravel and it's never caused any issues. > > > > Amber > > > > >Also I forgot to add, mystery snails are very easy to starve, if they > can't find food or they don't want the food they find they will > hibernate" sometimes and just wait for a flood to carry them away to a > new place (yeah that doesn't happen but they seem to think it might, > LOL). I seem to lose a mystery snail once a month, but they're all > adult sized so I can't be sure if they didn't die of old age or > something, but out of an entire tank filled with them one a month > doesn't seem odd to me. I have MANY left, LOL. > > > >Amber > > > > > > Kai wrote: > > > > > > I've got snails in my (3) Betta Bowls. The new big mystery snails > are there on purpose -- one each. The little teeny ones came in > uninvited on the plants (but that's OK.) > > > > > > One of the sites says to put a shell or calcium tablets into the > water so that snails don't suffer from weak shells but soon after I > did, one of my mystery snails died. I can't help but think it was as a > result of the clam shell. They've been out of salt water (and in my > garden) for over 10 years so I doubt salt played a role. I've removed > the shells from the other bowls too. The shells weren't such a good > idea were they? > > > > > > I feed my Bettas TetraMin Tropical Granules, the one with the > (color coded) dark green cap and a Betta on the front of the > container. I also occasionally drop in a TetraMin Tropical Tablet for > the snails but they don't seem to eat it. What should I be feeding > these snails? > > > ~Kai > > > > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 45365	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 12/30/2009
Subject: Re: More Snail Questions

Oh also, what is your room temp? Mine is in the higher 70's, but a lot of people keep their room temps much cooler, in water lower than 70 the snails might get a bit sluggish (they hibernate in cold weather in the wild), if the water gets too cold they will eventually die, but that would be lower than 50 degrees I'm sure. Amber kuradi8 wrote: > > OK, I'll try fresh veggies and veggie wafers. > > The ph is very close to neutral (the shells boosted it into the "too > blue" range in my test kit) and the temperature is room temperature. > > I scrubbed (no soap) the shells well before adding them to the bowls > and no, no pesticides or anything else in my garden. I'm a LAZY > gardener and let nature take its own course. The only "fertilizer" I > use is the dirty water I take out my 55g when I vacuum it -- and > that's only in the warm months when I'm willing to transfer it out of > the bucket into my watering can and stand there like Mary Mary Quite > Contrary. > > Bummer about that snail cos it was doing so well until I put the shell > in. And my Betta stood over it as if he were mourning... it was sad. > ~Kai > > > Amber Berglund wrote: > > > > I've noticed my snails prefer veggies over meaty foods. Try dropping > in a slice of cucumber or red/green leaf lettuce (or romaine). > Otherwise they will also go after sinking veggie wafers. > > What is your pH in your betta bowls and how warm do you keep the > water? mystery snails grow faster and die sooner the warmer the water > is, but if you're in the 70's range it shouldn't cause them to grow > too fast. > > Adding shells to the tank shouldn't cause harm unless the shells > were dirty. I have shells in all of my tanks, as well as crushed coral > in my filters and under my gravel and it's never caused any issues. > > > > Amber > > > > >Also I forgot to add, mystery snails are very easy to starve, if they > can't find food or they don't want the food they find they will > hibernate" sometimes and just wait for a flood to carry them away to a > new place (yeah that doesn't happen but they seem to think it might, > LOL). I seem to lose a mystery snail once a month, but they're all > adult sized so I can't be sure if they didn't die of old age or > something, but out of an entire tank filled with them one a month > doesn't seem odd to me. I have MANY left, LOL. > > > >Amber > > > > > > Kai wrote: > > > > > > I've got snails in my (3) Betta Bowls. The new big mystery snails > are there on purpose -- one each. The little teeny ones came in > uninvited on the plants (but that's OK.) > > > > > > One of the sites says to put a shell or calcium tablets into the > water so that snails don't suffer from weak shells but soon after I > did, one of my mystery snails died. I can't help but think it was as a > result of the clam shell. They've been out of salt water (and in my > garden) for over 10 years so I doubt salt played a role. I've removed > the shells from the other bowls too. The shells weren't such a good > idea were they? > > > > > > I feed my Bettas TetraMin Tropical Granules, the one with the > (color coded) dark green cap and a Betta on the front of the > container. I also occasionally drop in a TetraMin Tropical Tablet for > the snails but they don't seem to eat it. What should I be feeding > these snails? > > > ~Kai > > > > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 45366	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 12/30/2009
Subject: Re: More Snail Questions

Or should that have been "one foot in the grave" (and in the case of snails, the only foot) since the "last leg" analogy isn't applicable to snails. ;-) If/when you find a DEFINITE age for any of the Apple/Mystery Snails by species, let me know so I can add them to my "How Long SHOULD Your Fish Live?" article and lifespan guide. As far as your fingernail polish trick, you might want to do several of them with different colors so you can get a better idea... and even a few snails in each tank with snails. A single test snail in a single tank could die early and skew your results. Start a thread out here and bump it up every month or two with size (pea, dime, nickel, quarter, etc... or use actual 1/4", 1/2", 3/4", 1" measurements) of each colored snail. It will give us something to talk about on slow days. LOL Here's what I found just now with a Google. http://www.applesnail.net/content/faq.php#18 (FAQ #18) How old do apple snails get? The apple snail's life expectancy mainly depends on the temperature of their environment and the general life conditions. At lower temperatures, the apple snail can get over 3 years old and records of apple snails of ten years old have been reported. Lanistes nyassanus has an estimated life span of 5 to 10 years in Lake Malawi, Africa. At a temperature of 25°C, they will only live 12-16 months. At higher temperatures, the snails are more active because their metabolism increases with the temperature, but this also speeds up their life cycle and thus shortens their life expectancy. So you can elongate your snail's life by lowering the temperature. A general rule: keep the temperature between 18 and 28°C (65-82°F). It is suspected that at least some apple snail species need an aestivation period in the mud to avoid burning-out. http://www.aquaticcommunity.com/aquariumforum/showthread.php?t=38661 (Profile, Care Sheet and FAQ's) How long do they live? Mystery snails can live anywhere from 2 years to 10 years, depending completely on the water temperature. They can live fine in room temperature water, but will be active and live only a few years at around 80F. Usually a temperature in the low 80's is required for breeding. http://www.aquariumfish.net/catalog_pages/misc_critters/snails.htm (Not the most reliable source but does have good snips of information that I snip out of their articles on a regular basis) Size and Life Span These Snails will live about 12 to 16 months when kept in water at a temperature of 82 degrees F. At a temperature of 65 degrees F. Snails have a life span of at least 3 years perhaps as long as 10 years. Generally, the cooler the water the longer the Snails will live. But these Snails do not live well at a temperature below about 65 degrees F. This website, which I've never seen before, has some interesting info on Apple/Mystery Snails. http://www.manandmollusc.net/Odessa/apple1.html Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Amber Berglund Sent: Wednesday, December 30, 2009 4:31 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: More Snail Questions It's possible that it was old before you bought it and it was just on it's last "snail foot" (LOL sorry). I've found that snails do better in pH above 7, preferably 7.2-7.4 is their happiest range, but they will survive in lower pH if you baby them more (add calcium to the tank or feed them a lot of high calcium foods). I killed several of my snails when I moved them downstairs to my big tank as I had forgotten to refill the crushed coral and the pH had dropped slowly back down into the 6's. Once I refilled the crushed coral in the filter everything went back to normal and the snails have been doing much better again. One of these days I'm going to put fingernail polish or something on one of my baby snails to see how long it takes for them to die of old age, I still haven't found an age range anywhere online, they all say "it's based on the temp of the water they are kept in" but still no one seems to give an age range or anything. They could live a year or more, who knows? LOL. Amber kuradi8 wrote: > > OK, I'll try fresh veggies and veggie wafers. > > The ph is very close to neutral (the shells boosted it into the "too > blue" range in my test kit) and the temperature is room temperature. > > I scrubbed (no soap) the shells well before adding them to the bowls > and no, no pesticides or anything else in my garden. I'm a LAZY > gardener and let nature take its own course. The only "fertilizer" I > use is the dirty water I take out my 55g when I vacuum it -- and > that's only in the warm months when I'm willing to transfer it out of > the bucket into my watering can and stand there like Mary Mary Quite > Contrary. > > Bummer about that snail cos it was doing so well until I put the shell > in. And my Betta stood over it as if he were mourning... it was sad. > ~Kai > > > Amber Berglund wrote: > > > > I've noticed my snails prefer veggies over meaty foods. Try dropping > in a slice of cucumber or red/green leaf lettuce (or romaine). > Otherwise they will also go after sinking veggie wafers. > > What is your pH in your betta bowls and how warm do you keep the > water? mystery snails grow faster and die sooner the warmer the water > is, but if you're in the 70's range it shouldn't cause them to grow > too fast. > > Adding shells to the tank shouldn't cause harm unless the shells > were dirty. I have shells in all of my tanks, as well as crushed coral > in my filters and under my gravel and it's never caused any issues. > > > > Amber > > > > >Also I forgot to add, mystery snails are very easy to starve, if they > can't find food or they don't want the food they find they will > hibernate" sometimes and just wait for a flood to carry them away to a > new place (yeah that doesn't happen but they seem to think it might, > LOL). I seem to lose a mystery snail once a month, but they're all > adult sized so I can't be sure if they didn't die of old age or > something, but out of an entire tank filled with them one a month > doesn't seem odd to me. I have MANY left, LOL. > > > >Amber > > > > > > Kai wrote: > > > > > > I've got snails in my (3) Betta Bowls. The new big mystery snails > are there on purpose -- one each. The little teeny ones came in > uninvited on the plants (but that's OK.) > > > > > > One of the sites says to put a shell or calcium tablets into the > water so that snails don't suffer from weak shells but soon after I > did, one of my mystery snails died. I can't help but think it was as a > result of the clam shell. They've been out of salt water (and in my > garden) for over 10 years so I doubt salt played a role. I've removed > the shells from the other bowls too. The shells weren't such a good > idea were they? > > > > > > I feed my Bettas TetraMin Tropical Granules, the one with the > (color coded) dark green cap and a Betta on the front of the > container. I also occasionally drop in a TetraMin Tropical Tablet for > the snails but they don't seem to eat it. What should I be feeding > these snails? > > > ~Kai

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 45367	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 12/31/2009
Subject: Light Bulb of the Future?

Video. http://news.zdnet.com/2422-13748_22-192842.html?tag=nl.e539 http://tinyurl.com/8v2j8s \\Steve//

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 45368	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 12/31/2009
Subject: Re: Light Bulb of the Future?

That's one tiny 250W light bulb. I liked how they explained the "lumens per watt", with this new plasma bulb giving out 140 lumens per watt, an LED gives out 70 lumens per watt and a regular incandescent bulb only gives out 15 lumens per watt. I think LED's are going to be the light bulb of the present and near future for most of us *normal* people, since the cost of LED's is so cheap... but cities and big businesses will certainly benefit from this newer technology to save on energy costs and be able to recoup their investment at a faster rate. Several of the flashlights and small work lights that I've gotten in the past year have multiple LED's as their light source and the batteries last SO MUCH longer with them compared to an old fashioned flashlight bulb. I imagine this new technology is going to come with a hefty price tag until it becomes much more common. Look how long LED's have been around. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Steve Szabo Sent: Thursday, December 31, 2009 6:23 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Light Bulb of the Future? Video. http://news.zdnet.com/2422-13748_22-192842.html?tag=nl.e539 http://tinyurl.com/8v2j8s \\Steve//

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 45369	From: Donna Ransome	Date: 12/31/2009
Subject: Re: Light Bulb of the Future?

I read that LEDs for traffic lights are having a problem. They don't generate enough heat to keep ice melted off. _____ From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Lenny V. aka GoldLenny Sent: Thursday, December 31, 2009 11:37 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Light Bulb of the Future? That's one tiny 250W light bulb. I liked how they explained the "lumens per watt", with this new plasma bulb giving out 140 lumens per watt, an LED gives out 70 lumens per watt and a regular incandescent bulb only gives out 15 lumens per watt. I think LED's are going to be the light bulb of the present and near future for most of us *normal* people, since the cost of LED's is so cheap... but cities and big businesses will certainly benefit from this newer technology to save on energy costs and be able to recoup their investment at a faster rate. Several of the flashlights and small work lights that I've gotten in the past year have multiple LED's as their light source and the batteries last SO MUCH longer with them compared to an old fashioned flashlight bulb. I imagine this new technology is going to come with a hefty price tag until it becomes much more common. Look how long LED's have been around. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Steve Szabo Sent: Thursday, December 31, 2009 6:23 AM To: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Light Bulb of the Future? Video. http://news. <http://news.zdnet.com/2422-13748_22-192842.html?tag=nl.e539> zdnet.com/2422-13748_22-192842.html?tag=nl.e539 http://tinyurl. <http://tinyurl.com/8v2j8s> com/8v2j8s \\Steve// [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 45370	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 12/31/2009
Subject: Re: Light Bulb of the Future?

Yeah, I've seen those reports too. We've never had that problem with the LED traffic light bulbs down here though... oh yeah.. that's cuz we don't get snow... at least not enough to build up on traffic lights. LOL I know the big thing with the higher efficiency light bulbs (LED's, fluorescent, CFL's, etc.) is that the energy is used creating lumens instead of heat but the video for this plasma bulb stated that the core of the plasma bulb reached 6,000F... the same temperature as the surface of the sun... so I'm wondering if this bulb might put out a lot of heat or not? Or maybe it's just an atom sized speck that reaches 6,000F and that heat never radiates out of the light bulb enclosure for it to be a heat generating issue. They could fix the snow issue with LED traffic bulbs with a hybrid bulb that has a small incandescent bulb with the LED's surrounding it. It wouldn't take much... probably just a 5W incandescent bulb would put out enough heat. I've seen DIY pond deicers made with a 25W incandescent bulb to keep a large hole in the surface of a frozen pond so it shouldn't take much to deice a traffic bulb sized area. -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Donna Ransome Sent: Thursday, December 31, 2009 11:18 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Light Bulb of the Future? I read that LEDs for traffic lights are having a problem. They don't generate enough heat to keep ice melted off. _____ From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Lenny V. aka GoldLenny Sent: Thursday, December 31, 2009 11:37 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Light Bulb of the Future? That's one tiny 250W light bulb. I liked how they explained the "lumens per watt", with this new plasma bulb giving out 140 lumens per watt, an LED gives out 70 lumens per watt and a regular incandescent bulb only gives out 15 lumens per watt. I think LED's are going to be the light bulb of the present and near future for most of us *normal* people, since the cost of LED's is so cheap... but cities and big businesses will certainly benefit from this newer technology to save on energy costs and be able to recoup their investment at a faster rate. Several of the flashlights and small work lights that I've gotten in the past year have multiple LED's as their light source and the batteries last SO MUCH longer with them compared to an old fashioned flashlight bulb. I imagine this new technology is going to come with a hefty price tag until it becomes much more common. Look how long LED's have been around. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Steve Szabo Sent: Thursday, December 31, 2009 6:23 AM To: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Light Bulb of the Future? Video. http://news.zdnet.com/2422-13748_22-192842.html?tag=nl.e539 http://tinyurl.com/8v2j8s \\Steve//

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 45371	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 12/31/2009
Subject: Re: Light Bulb of the Future?

The price of the LED bulbs are coming down, but they are not what I would call inexpensive, yet. I see some T-8 replacements for fluorescent bulbs (48") listed at $149.95. (YES, that's right folks, LESS THAN $150!!!) They have a color temperature of 5000° and a CRI of 85. Initial lumens are listed as the equivalent of a new fluorescent bulb (2850). You might want to get a bunch of these replacements for your 60 watt bulbs at $94.90 each (if you buy 6 at a time, your price per bulb goes down to $90.20), 600 lumen and available in 6000K (daylight) and 2800K (Warm White) models. Each uses only 9 watts. I am not finding much in the way of available aquarium lighting, though I know it exists, such as this strip (16" long) at 5500K for $49.99, you can connect two together. The 31" strip gives a bit more information--5500K, 85-90 CRI, and 90 lumens. Sites used for pricing: http://www.theledlight.com/EverLED-T8.html http://www.besthomeledlighting.com/product/C12-120-E12-4W-WW http://tinyurl.com/y9updcg http://www.naturallighting.com/web/shop.php?crn=901 http://tinyurl.com/y95tpcp I also found a very interesting article on aquarium lighting. You'll probably need to read it a few times to really understand it. It is crammed with what appears to be good and correct information. It was just updated recently. http://www.americanaquariumproducts.com/Aquarium_Lighting.html http://tinyurl.com/yhoe3hu \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Lenny V. aka GoldLenny Sent: Thursday, December 31, 2009 11:37 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Light Bulb of the Future? That's one tiny 250W light bulb. I liked how they explained the "lumens per watt", with this new plasma bulb giving out 140 lumens per watt, an LED gives out 70 lumens per watt and a regular incandescent bulb only gives out 15 lumens per watt. I think LED's are going to be the light bulb of the present and near future for most of us *normal* people, since the cost of LED's is so cheap... but cities and big businesses will certainly benefit from this newer technology to save on energy costs and be able to recoup their investment at a faster rate. Several of the flashlights and small work lights that I've gotten in the past year have multiple LED's as their light source and the batteries last SO MUCH longer with them compared to an old fashioned flashlight bulb. I imagine this new technology is going to come with a hefty price tag until it becomes much more common. Look how long LED's have been around. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Steve Szabo Sent: Thursday, December 31, 2009 6:23 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Light Bulb of the Future? Video. http://news.zdnet.com/2422-13748_22-192842.html?tag=nl.e539 http://tinyurl.com/8v2j8s \\Steve//

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 45372	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 12/31/2009
Subject: Tiger lotus

So I recently did some tank "remodeling" with plants and I somehow accidentally tore the leaves/stem off of my tiger lotus bulb. Will it regrow leaves if it has none? I put a new plant fertilizer tab nearby it, hoping that it might help it regrow. I've been watching the last week to see if it's going to regrow leaves but I haven't noticed any new ones. Amber

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 45373	From: harry perry	Date: 12/31/2009
Subject: Re: Tiger lotus Amber

Mine came back. The bulb was lifeless for over a year. I pulled it out of the substrate. Just stuck the very end in the gravel. Turned the heat up to 80. Broke 3 plant tabs in half and just scattered them in the tank. This is a 10 gallon plant only tank. In two weeks time it has grow 3 leaves and is now 3" tall. This is a low light tank but the plant is directly under the light. Light is on a timer for 12 hours. Harry --- On Thu, 12/31/09, Amber Berglund <arberglund@...> wrote: From: Amber Berglund <arberglund@...> Subject: [AquaticLife] Tiger lotus To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Date: Thursday, December 31, 2009, 6:05 PM   So I recently did some tank "remodeling" with plants and I somehow accidentally tore the leaves/stem off of my tiger lotus bulb. Will it regrow leaves if it has none? I put a new plant fertilizer tab nearby it, hoping that it might help it regrow. I've been watching the last week to see if it's going to regrow leaves but I haven't noticed any new ones. Amber [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 45374	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 12/31/2009
Subject: Re: Tiger lotus Amber

Thanks, good to know :) I will double check the depth of the bulb, perhaps it is too deep, but it was growing just fine before this, it's my fault that I lost all the leaves, LOL. Amber harry perry wrote: > > > Mine came back. The bulb was lifeless for over a year. I pulled it out > of the substrate. Just stuck the very end in the gravel. Turned the > heat up to 80. Broke 3 plant tabs in half and just scattered them in > the tank. This is a 10 gallon plant only tank. In two weeks time it > has grow 3 leaves and is now 3" tall. This is a low light tank but the > plant is directly under the light. Light is on a timer for 12 hours. > > Harry > > --- On Thu, 12/31/09, Amber Berglund <arberglund@... > <mailto:arberglund%40gmail.com>> wrote: > > From: Amber Berglund <arberglund@... > <mailto:arberglund%40gmail.com>> > Subject: [AquaticLife] Tiger lotus > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Date: Thursday, December 31, 2009, 6:05 PM > > > > So I recently did some tank "remodeling" with plants and I somehow > > accidentally tore the leaves/stem off of my tiger lotus bulb. Will it > > regrow leaves if it has none? I put a new plant fertilizer tab nearby > > it, hoping that it might help it regrow. I've been watching the last > > week to see if it's going to regrow leaves but I haven't noticed any new > > ones. > > Amber > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 45375	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 12/31/2009
Subject: Re: Light Bulb of the Future?

Well.. LED's for aquarium lighting is still ridiculously overpriced as a fixture whereas the actual manufacturers cost of LED's are mere pennies each. You can buy a 100 light string of Christmas lights for under $10.00, yet 72 1W LED's in an aquarium light fixture will be several hundred or thousands of dollars. This one is $759.99 at DrsFosterSmith.com... Ecoxotic Panorama LED Fixtures Bright LED fixture supports reef aquariums Model 6061 23-1/2" x 15" x 3" h 72 LEDs 54 8,000K 18 Blue Actinic 73 Watts Total http://www.drsfostersmith.com/product/prod_display.cfm?pcatid=21599&cmpid=03 csegb&ref=3312&subref=AA&ci_src=14110944&ci_sku=0072148000000 MarineDepot.com had a 6' long LED fixture for a SW tank that cost over $3,000.00. WHOAAAA!!! Of course, it seems the price of those 1W LED's (above) may be a LOT more expensive to manufacture than the much lower wattage LED's in Christmas light strands. Below is a snip I found that says 100 LED Christmas lights draw only 4W total, so each bulb would only be .04W (right?) so you would need around 20 strands of Christmas lights to equal 80W's of LED lighting... Still.. that would only be $200.00 for 2,000 LED bulbs. Now I know what to do with that tangled up ball of Christmas lights. LOL http://www.fieldlines.com/story/2006/11/4/15938/4550 Question: I just bought some of those LED Christmas lights and came up with a question. It's a strand of 100 multi colour. There is a tag on it that says 120v,60hz,0.04a,4w. My question is, Is each light 4w or is the whole strand? 4 watts for the whole strand sounds too good to be true, yet 4 watts each is still 400 watts for this one strand. I asked the guy at Canadian tire and I'm not sure he even knows what a watt is. I did a quick search and came up empty. Any ideas? Answer 1: Most likely it's 4 watts for the entire string. A 4 watt LED would be blindingly bright and 100 would light a good sized room. Consider a whole string of 100 small tree bulbs is about 45 watts in slow "chase" mode and about 85 watts with every bulb burning. Answer 2: Most LEDs like this can't handle more than about 20 mA at 2V or so, which is 40mW, times 100 is, hey !, 4000mW or 4W. Multi-color LEDs are low voltage, and must be put in series to get up to a higher voltage. Since LEDs are about 20 mA, and your specs say 40 mA (0.04A), there are probably 50 in (2) series strings, each of which would then have 2.4V, which sounds about right. Since LEDs are diodes, if you have 2 strings, you have a rectifier if they are attached out of phase. Just in case that sounded like Greek, yes, 4W is for the whole string. Dave (END SNIP) Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Steve Szabo Sent: Thursday, December 31, 2009 3:44 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Light Bulb of the Future? The price of the LED bulbs are coming down, but they are not what I would call inexpensive, yet. I see some T-8 replacements for fluorescent bulbs (48") listed at $149.95. (YES, that's right folks, LESS THAN $150!!!) They have a color temperature of 5000° and a CRI of 85. Initial lumens are listed as the equivalent of a new fluorescent bulb (2850). You might want to get a bunch of these replacements for your 60 watt bulbs at $94.90 each (if you buy 6 at a time, your price per bulb goes down to $90.20), 600 lumen and available in 6000K (daylight) and 2800K (Warm White) models. Each uses only 9 watts. I am not finding much in the way of available aquarium lighting, though I know it exists, such as this strip (16" long) at 5500K for $49.99, you can connect two together. The 31" strip gives a bit more information--5500K, 85-90 CRI, and 90 lumens. Sites used for pricing: http://www.theledlight.com/EverLED-T8.html http://www.besthomeledlighting.com/product/C12-120-E12-4W-WW http://tinyurl.com/y9updcg http://www.naturallighting.com/web/shop.php?crn=901 http://tinyurl.com/y95tpcp I also found a very interesting article on aquarium lighting. You'll probably need to read it a few times to really understand it. It is crammed with what appears to be good and correct information. It was just updated recently. http://www.americanaquariumproducts.com/Aquarium_Lighting.html http://tinyurl.com/yhoe3hu \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Lenny V. aka GoldLenny Sent: Thursday, December 31, 2009 11:37 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Light Bulb of the Future? That's one tiny 250W light bulb. I liked how they explained the "lumens per watt", with this new plasma bulb giving out 140 lumens per watt, an LED gives out 70 lumens per watt and a regular incandescent bulb only gives out 15 lumens per watt. I think LED's are going to be the light bulb of the present and near future for most of us *normal* people, since the cost of LED's is so cheap... but cities and big businesses will certainly benefit from this newer technology to save on energy costs and be able to recoup their investment at a faster rate. Several of the flashlights and small work lights that I've gotten in the past year have multiple LED's as their light source and the batteries last SO MUCH longer with them compared to an old fashioned flashlight bulb. I imagine this new technology is going to come with a hefty price tag until it becomes much more common. Look how long LED's have been around. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Steve Szabo Sent: Thursday, December 31, 2009 6:23 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Light Bulb of the Future? Video. http://news.zdnet.com/2422-13748_22-192842.html?tag=nl.e539 http://tinyurl.com/8v2j8s \\Steve//

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 45376	From: pam andress	Date: 12/31/2009
Subject: Re: Light Bulb of the Future?

Can you just emagine what the fish lighting will be like!! Pam That's one tiny 250W light bulb. I liked how they explained the "lumens per watt", with this new plasma bulb giving out 140 lumens per watt, an LED gives out 70 lumens per watt and a regular incandescent bulb only gives out 15 lumens per watt. I think LED's are going to be the light bulb of the present and near future for most of us *normal* people, since the cost of LED's is so cheap... but cities and big businesses will certainly benefit from this newer technology to save on energy costs and be able to recoup their investment at a faster rate. Several of the flashlights and small work lights that I've gotten in the past year have multiple LED's as their light source and the batteries last SO MUCH longer with them compared to an old fashioned flashlight bulb. I imagine this new technology is going to come with a hefty price tag until it becomes much more common. Look how long LED's have been around. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Steve Szabo Sent: Thursday, December 31, 2009 6:23 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Light Bulb of the Future? Video. http://news.zdnet.com/2422-13748_22-192842.html?tag=nl.e539 http://tinyurl.com/8v2j8s \\Steve// [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 45377	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 12/31/2009
Subject: Re: Light Bulb of the Future?

Lenny, Mere pennies for those used in electronic equipment and your Christmas lights, but much more expensive for those that are intended for use in the home as we now use incandescent lights and fluorescents. This is just as the tiny lights that have been taking over from the normal 7 watt bulbs that used to festoon our trees and homes during the Christmas season (or, until we take them down sometime in July). The smaller lights are less expensive when bought separately or as a string than the older lights were, and are. Sometimes, it isn't worth replacing the bulbs in them, just throw out the whole string and get a new one. The higher wattage, more bright LEDs are more complex diodes, and it looks like they need a ballast, judging from the pictures of the bulbs meant to replace incandescent bulbs. \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Lenny V. aka GoldLenny Sent: Thursday, December 31, 2009 8:32 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Light Bulb of the Future? Well.. LED's for aquarium lighting is still ridiculously overpriced as a fixture whereas the actual manufacturers cost of LED's are mere pennies each. You can buy a 100 light string of Christmas lights for under $10.00, yet 72 1W LED's in an aquarium light fixture will be several hundred or thousands of dollars. This one is $759.99 at DrsFosterSmith.com... Ecoxotic Panorama LED Fixtures Bright LED fixture supports reef aquariums Model 6061 23-1/2" x 15" x 3" h 72 LEDs 54 8,000K 18 Blue Actinic 73 Watts Total http://www.drsfostersmith.com/product/prod_display.cfm?pcatid=21599&cmpid=03 csegb&ref=3312&subref=AA&ci_src=14110944&ci_sku=0072148000000 MarineDepot.com had a 6' long LED fixture for a SW tank that cost over $3,000.00. WHOAAAA!!! Of course, it seems the price of those 1W LED's (above) may be a LOT more expensive to manufacture than the much lower wattage LED's in Christmas light strands. Below is a snip I found that says 100 LED Christmas lights draw only 4W total, so each bulb would only be .04W (right?) so you would need around 20 strands of Christmas lights to equal 80W's of LED lighting... Still.. that would only be $200.00 for 2,000 LED bulbs. Now I know what to do with that tangled up ball of Christmas lights. LOL http://www.fieldlines.com/story/2006/11/4/15938/4550 Question: I just bought some of those LED Christmas lights and came up with a question. It's a strand of 100 multi colour. There is a tag on it that says 120v,60hz,0.04a,4w. My question is, Is each light 4w or is the whole strand? 4 watts for the whole strand sounds too good to be true, yet 4 watts each is still 400 watts for this one strand. I asked the guy at Canadian tire and I'm not sure he even knows what a watt is. I did a quick search and came up empty. Any ideas? Answer 1: Most likely it's 4 watts for the entire string. A 4 watt LED would be blindingly bright and 100 would light a good sized room. Consider a whole string of 100 small tree bulbs is about 45 watts in slow "chase" mode and about 85 watts with every bulb burning. Answer 2: Most LEDs like this can't handle more than about 20 mA at 2V or so, which is 40mW, times 100 is, hey !, 4000mW or 4W. Multi-color LEDs are low voltage, and must be put in series to get up to a higher voltage. Since LEDs are about 20 mA, and your specs say 40 mA (0.04A), there are probably 50 in (2) series strings, each of which would then have 2.4V, which sounds about right. Since LEDs are diodes, if you have 2 strings, you have a rectifier if they are attached out of phase. Just in case that sounded like Greek, yes, 4W is for the whole string. Dave (END SNIP) Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Steve Szabo Sent: Thursday, December 31, 2009 3:44 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Light Bulb of the Future? The price of the LED bulbs are coming down, but they are not what I would call inexpensive, yet. I see some T-8 replacements for fluorescent bulbs (48") listed at $149.95. (YES, that's right folks, LESS THAN $150!!!) They have a color temperature of 5000° and a CRI of 85. Initial lumens are listed as the equivalent of a new fluorescent bulb (2850). You might want to get a bunch of these replacements for your 60 watt bulbs at $94.90 each (if you buy 6 at a time, your price per bulb goes down to $90.20), 600 lumen and available in 6000K (daylight) and 2800K (Warm White) models. Each uses only 9 watts. I am not finding much in the way of available aquarium lighting, though I know it exists, such as this strip (16" long) at 5500K for $49.99, you can connect two together. The 31" strip gives a bit more information--5500K, 85-90 CRI, and 90 lumens. Sites used for pricing: http://www.theledlight.com/EverLED-T8.html http://www.besthomeledlighting.com/product/C12-120-E12-4W-WW http://tinyurl.com/y9updcg http://www.naturallighting.com/web/shop.php?crn=901 http://tinyurl.com/y95tpcp I also found a very interesting article on aquarium lighting. You'll probably need to read it a few times to really understand it. It is crammed with what appears to be good and correct information. It was just updated recently. http://www.americanaquariumproducts.com/Aquarium_Lighting.html http://tinyurl.com/yhoe3hu \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Lenny V. aka GoldLenny Sent: Thursday, December 31, 2009 11:37 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Light Bulb of the Future? That's one tiny 250W light bulb. I liked how they explained the "lumens per watt", with this new plasma bulb giving out 140 lumens per watt, an LED gives out 70 lumens per watt and a regular incandescent bulb only gives out 15 lumens per watt. I think LED's are going to be the light bulb of the present and near future for most of us *normal* people, since the cost of LED's is so cheap... but cities and big businesses will certainly benefit from this newer technology to save on energy costs and be able to recoup their investment at a faster rate. Several of the flashlights and small work lights that I've gotten in the past year have multiple LED's as their light source and the batteries last SO MUCH longer with them compared to an old fashioned flashlight bulb. I imagine this new technology is going to come with a hefty price tag until it becomes much more common. Look how long LED's have been around. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Steve Szabo Sent: Thursday, December 31, 2009 6:23 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Light Bulb of the Future? Video. http://news.zdnet.com/2422-13748_22-192842.html?tag=nl.e539 http://tinyurl.com/8v2j8s \\Steve//

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 45378	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 12/31/2009
Subject: Sharing a couple cute fish pictures

Resourceful little snail picture: http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2715/4232986956_ba3ac46447_b.jpg I'm pretty sure this picture is of a Male, Albino Bristle Nose Pleco. Getting nice bristles so far :) http://farm5.static.flickr.com/4052/4232216533_8c687b9390_b.jpg Amber

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 45379	From: pam andress	Date: 12/31/2009
Subject: Re: Sharing a couple cute fish pictures

Definitely a male ABN. Handsome guy! lol Pam Resourceful little snail picture: http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2715/4232986956_ba3ac46447_b.jpg I'm pretty sure this picture is of a Male, Albino Bristle Nose Pleco. Getting nice bristles so far :) http://farm5.static.flickr.com/4052/4232216533_8c687b9390_b.jpg Amber [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 45380	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 12/31/2009
Subject: Re: Sharing a couple cute fish pictures

Thanks Pam :) Do you happen to have any pics of closeup's of female BN pleco's? The brown ones are starting to grow bristles but only a couple, could be male but not sure at this point. They seem more shy than the Albino though, harder to get pics of, they run away when I get near the tank durnit, LOL. Amber pam andress wrote: > Definitely a male ABN. Handsome guy! lol > > > > Pam > > > > > > > Resourceful little snail picture: > http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2715/4232986956_ba3ac46447_b.jpg > > I'm pretty sure this picture is of a Male, Albino Bristle Nose Pleco. > Getting nice bristles so far :) > http://farm5.static.flickr.com/4052/4232216533_8c687b9390_b.jpg > > Amber > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > ------------------------------------ > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. > ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> > PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- > <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. > > If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the home page. > > Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com to receive the digest, which includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email > > Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com for the No E-Mail option where you will still be able to read messages on the group and post replies. > > Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com to receive individual e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links > > > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 45381	From: William M	Date: 12/31/2009
Subject: Re: Sharing a couple cute fish pictures

Yes, that is a male albino bushymouth catfish. You can tell by the way that the tentacles fork, the females do not fork like that and they usually are not as long. --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, Amber Berglund <arberglund@...> wrote: > > Resourceful little snail picture: > http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2715/4232986956_ba3ac46447_b.jpg > > I'm pretty sure this picture is of a Male, Albino Bristle Nose Pleco. > Getting nice bristles so far :) > http://farm5.static.flickr.com/4052/4232216533_8c687b9390_b.jpg > > Amber >